#  >  > Travellers Tales in Thailand and Asia >  >  > Thailand, Asia & the rest of the World Questions & Answers Forum >  >  Retire? How much do you need per month?

## Bowzer

Coming to the end of my teaching contract and thinking of retiring. It's a bit scary as I have never been without a job for the past 38 years...

I am married to a Thai, we have our own house in the Eastern Seaboard and a condo that brings in 9k a month when it is rented, as it has been for the last year. I have a smallish pension that will bring in about 45k Bath per month and a modest amount of savings that could be used for travel etc for a few years.

Is that enough in people's experience to live well?

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## cyrille

What do you regard as living well?

Trips overseas? Probably not often.

Christmas lunch with a couple of bottles of classy red at 'The Oriental'? Hmm...perhaps 'Ibis' would suit better?

In my view you have enough to live in reasonable comfort, as long as you have coverage for your medical costs. It will help if you like Thai food and don't need to spend too much on imported food and drink.

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## david44

It's a good question.Like all of us it largely dpends on things beyond our control, how long we live,health and the pension/income source, your unit's value should appreciate with inflation but then so will living costs.
You need to factor in health costs, currency exposure unless pension in baht and what you and wife consider living well.

Enjoy your well earned retirement.

Of course none of can predict visa policy or costs but I bet they will not reduce.
If we all need the Elite or millions to stay permanently would be an issue, but despite gossip seniors know if they increase too fast it will deter retirees who bring lots of foreign exchange inwards

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## Pragmatic

> Is that enough in people's experience to live well?


 Piss easy.

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## AntRobertson

These questions are always a bit of 'how long is that piece of string' to me.

 :Dunno:

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## Norton

> Is that enough in people's experience to live well?


Yes. Less if you go more local than most expats.

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## NamPikToot

I'd say easy but as Cy and other have said; depends on your lifestyle and the medical could get costly over time.

In the meantime queue the "i can live on 9K / mnth vs I can't imagine what living in the gutter on less than 120K mnth must be like" shitfest

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## Mandaloopy

I think it is possible, the only issue as others have mentioned is healthcare, which is rather hard to predict. Enjoy your retirement and thanks for the reminder that I need to set up a direct debit to continue paying NI contributions

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## bowie

American 62yo Thai wife 57yo - Nonthaburi, own house in gated Moo Baan.

Retirement Budget: THB 90k/mo THB 1M/annum. Quite easy to live within our "Retirement Budget". Yours will differ. 
THB ?,??? month/THB ??,??? year
Moo Baan Fee                 THB 1,350                  THB 16,200 
Electricity                      THB 3,000                  THB 36,000 
Water                             THB 300                     THB 3,600 
TV & Internet                 THB 3,000                  THB 36,000 
House Insurance           THB 1,000                  THB 12,000 
Car insurance                THB 2,000                  THB 24,000 
Medical Insurance         THB 11,000                 THB 132,000 
Life Insurance                THB 3,750                  THB 45,000 
Food                              THB 60,000                 THB 720,000 
Auto Maintenance         THB 2,000                  THB 24,000 
TOTAL                           THB 87,400                 THB 1,024,800 
BUDGETARY USE          THB 90,000                 THB 1,000,000 

Actual spending is less than budgeted.

But, the unknowns emergency can kill your budget. The big unknown is "Medical" one major sickness can destroy your finances and pretty much ruin your "lifestyle - Standard of Living".


But, concerning your question "Is it enough?" Well, of course it is. You know how much money you will have - it is your task to live within your means. Up to you to decide if living within your means will provide you with a "Standard-of-Living" you will be satisfied with.

My statement to my wife, "don't worry about money, we do not waste it, we watch what we spend our money on and pay attention to where it goes. If we start to "overspend" we will know it and cut back as we need to".

The whole trick to us is "we know how much we have and we must make it last until we die". Very easy to do if you know when you will die. 

In your shoes; 1) draw up a "retirement" budget. 2) Test It: live within it for a year, 3) adjust as necessary. And, 4) plan for and save up the "emergency stash" for an unexpected medical emergency. 

Good luck.

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## Maanaam

> "Is it enough?" Well, of course it is. You know how much money you will have - it is your task to live within your means. Up to you to decide if living within your means will provide you with a "Standard-of-Living" you will be satisfied with.


End of discussion. Says it all.






> Food THB 60,000 THB


You do eat well!  :Smile: ...or drink a lot.

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## Switch

If you have worked for that many years, you could find it a bit of a shock to the system to stop and retire. You are used to being busy, your partner is used to you being out all day 5 days a week.
Not as easy as it seems in reality..

Try part time first and develop your hobbies into something that can fill the time, preferably involving your partner.

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## Luigi

> you could find it a bit of a shock to the system to stop and retire. You are used to being busy, your partner is used to you being out all day 5 days a week.
> Not as easy as it seems in reality..


One aspect of it. May I recommend taking up studying something or other, Thai is always good, more to keep yerself busy and be social etc, than just to learn it.

If you're young enough, can the house be used as collateral on another rental property for added security in 10/15/20 yrs time.

Future exchange rates could be a worry. Was meeting Brits retiring here at 60-ish around 2005 when it was 70+ baht to the pound. Life was okay for them on a basic 1000 quid pension. 70k+ per month and everything was as cheap as chips. Now they're in their 70's, getting 42,000b a month instead of 70+, and everything's twice as expensive. 

If you're happy living simply, then you should be okay, presuming the wife also has a pension/income.


Join eatigo. Start eating dinner at 11pm.

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## Neverna

> Coming to the end of my teaching contract and thinking of retiring. It's a bit scary as I have never been without a job for the past 38 years...
> 
> I am married to a Thai, we have our own house in the Eastern Seaboard and a condo that brings in 9k a month when it is rented, as it has been for the last year. I have a smallish pension that will bring in about 45k Bath per month and a modest amount of savings that could be used for travel etc for a few years.
> 
> Is that enough in people's experience to live well?


How much have you been spending in the last year in Thailand? Take away the costs of getting to and from work, and your retirement costs will likely be similar.

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## Dillinger

> Is that enough in people's experience to live well?


Certainly....for the first weekend   in every month :Smile:  

For the other 3 weeks, take up  balloon chasing, dining and drinking  outside the 7/11, spend your days using the aircon in Central Mall, switch to Krung Thips, Siam Sato and the cheaper girls prowling the beach and you will be living alright

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## Luigi

> cheaper girls prowling the beach


Interest piqued.

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## Maanaam

^ "I'm a stud" wannabe can't help himself. Sad SOB.

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## Luigi

We all have hobbies bud.

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## Dillinger

Good point. Get a couple of paying hobbies like Leery Lu.

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## Luigi

:smiley laughing:

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## Dillinger

> Join eatigo. Start eating dinner at 11pm


 :Smile: Deleted that off my phone now :Smile: 
After they stick their plus plus charges on and you're paying 200 baht for a drink, its about the same price to eat your dinner before the pubs shut :Smile:

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## bowie

> You do eat well! ...or drink a lot.


Yea, but, in reality, the budget "food" category actually was combining the "food" and Misc" category's. Budgeting is a fairly difficult process in that, to correctly draw up a "future" budget you need to get a firm grip on your existing expenditures. To do that you need to journal your spending. Really is amazing to find out just "where" you actually are spending your cash. 

Surprise, surprise, surprise...

and, in my case, that "miscellaneous" category did catch a slew of small necessities that added up to a good chunk of change. 

And, of course, for Teakdoorees, don't overlook the "sin tax" category(s) - usually more than one, eh?

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## Maanaam

> the "sin tax" category(s) - usually more than one, eh?


 :Smile:  we all have our vices.  :Smile:

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## Mandaloopy

If only there was some way to find out a near enough date of my expiry. I want a really over the top funeral- soak my body in Moet or something naff

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## Bowzer

Thanks for the comment. The IBIS - was too expensive, but yes the occasional trip abroad, etc. We live in Ban Chang, it's pretty cheap there.

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## nidhogg

> I want a really over the top funeral- soak my body in Moet or something naff


Teaching in Mongolia must pay much better than I thought...

Best I am likely to get is a quick splash with Sang Som....

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## fishlocker

It's all about the market. Market prices, fish market, goats shrimp and snakes.

The bottom dropped out today.  Down 600 and to think at one point I was up 22. Always second guessing when to jump.

The bottom line is what do you feel comfortable with. How much do you need? Like their is a one size fits all pair of depends.

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## headhunter

> Yea, but, in reality, the budget "food" category actually was combining the "food" and Misc" category's. Budgeting is a fairly difficult process in that, to correctly draw up a "future" budget you need to get a firm grip on your existing expenditures. To do that you need to journal your spending. Really is amazing to find out just "where" you actually are spending your cash. 
> 
> Surprise, surprise, surprise...
> 
> and, in my case, that "miscellaneous" category did catch a slew of small necessities that added up to a good chunk of change. 
> 
> And, of course, for Teakdoorees, don't overlook the "sin tax" category(s) - usually more than one, eh?


take on board all as bowie said,BUT my advice [35yrs] KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT,NOSE CLEAN AND ALWAYS PREPARE FOR THE UNEXPECTED,because there will be some.

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## headhunter

> Yea, but, in reality, the budget "food" category actually was combining the "food" and Misc" category's. Budgeting is a fairly difficult process in that, to correctly draw up a "future" budget you need to get a firm grip on your existing expenditures. To do that you need to journal your spending. Really is amazing to find out just "where" you actually are spending your cash. 
> 
> Surprise, surprise, surprise...
> 
> and, in my case, that "miscellaneous" category did catch a slew of small necessities that added up to a good chunk of change. 
> 
> And, of course, for Teakdoorees, don't overlook the "sin tax" category(s) - usually more than one, eh?


take on board all that bowie has said.
after over 35yrs.my advice is,you can have a good living,BUT KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT,YOUR NOSE CLEAN AND ALWAYS BE PREPARED FOR THE UNEXPECTED AS THERE WILL BE SOME.

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## Hugh Cow

> If only there was some way to find out a near enough date of my expiry. I want a really over the top funeral- soak my body in Moet or something naff


Try 20 year old scotch. At least you'll burn better.

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## fishlocker

Flashpoint 101?
Life is a powder keg. Best stand far off and away when it blows up.
Just sayen



fish

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## fishlocker

How much you need to take with you is a  calculated number based on how long you will fly. How soon you will die ect.

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## cyrille

Some solid arguments for extending your working life as long as possible here.  :Very Happy:

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## kmart

^ :smiley laughing:   Just thinking the same.

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## OhOh

> ALWAYS PREPARE FOR THE UNEXPECTED,because there will be some.


In all decisions, preparation in thought and deed wins the days, months and years ahead. 

Plus another 100% for the guaranteed stumbles along life's highways and byways.

 :Smile:

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## NamPikToot

> Teaching in Mongolia must pay much better than I thought...
> 
> Best I am likely to get is a quick splash with Sang Som....



I does but life expectancy is low

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## TizMe

The OECD says you need only 70 per cent of your pre-retirement income to be comfortable.

I find this to be bullshit though.

I currently spend about 40% of my salary, I don't expect my spending to nearly double when I retire.
Probably the first couple of years after retirement there'll be some travelling that will be more expensive than just going to work. But really, the trips won't be any more frequent than I do already, just the duration of stays will be longer.

As you then get older, travelling reduces and really the only expenses that will increase is health.

My parents, mum 85 and dad 90, have spent all their superannuation and now just live on the Aus pension and a few small dividends from investments.

They find it difficult to spend all of their pension. 
They just buy anything that they ever want.
They hire people to come and clean their house every week.
They hire a guy to come and mow the lawn every 2 weeks. (I think weekly in the summer)
They hire a local gardening crew to look after the garden ( a 1/4 acre block in suburban Sydney)
They no longer drive, so there's no car to maintain.

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## cyrille

Yup....eventually being unable to dress oneself and go out results in further savings.

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## fishlocker

Cloths? Another reason to flop on the sand by the waterfront. 
Who cares if the fry no longer find you fresh.

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## Bowzer

Yep. For me it is only the Sterling rate. I wish I had changed to USD 3 years ago...

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## Bowzer

Thanks, sound advice - maybe I need another contract somewhere to make doubly sure, just don't fancy it.

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## Luigi

> in the Eastern Seaboard


Roughly which area are you in?

I researched retiring along there last year, but found the beaches past Sattahip to be rubbish tips. Which would really be the reason for it. Bang Saray looked okay, as did Sattahip, but decent schooling would mean daily commuting for the kid, which is something I want to avoid. Moving further North means moving into Dillinger Sexpat territory. Something I'd also like to avoid.

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## Fondles

How do you plan to fund the visa/extension requirements...

What about health insurance ?

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## tomcat

> How do you plan to fund the visa/extension requirements...


...agree: Thai immigration has already determined how much a farang needs in retirement...they arrived at the appropriate figure, apparently,  by asking a dead fetus or a nearby tree for the correct number...in my case, a B65K+ monthly transfer from the States satisfies the spirits...

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## TizMe

> ...agree: Thai immigration has already determined how much a farang needs in retirement.


Strangely... they've also determined that 440K per annum is enough if you are married, but you'll need 800K if single...

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## tomcat

> Strangely


...the dead fetus hath spoken...

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## Neverna

> Strangely... they've also determined that 440K per annum is enough if you are married, but you'll need 800K if single...


Really? Surely the 800k is for retirement, single or married, where working is not allowed. The 400k is for a person married to a Thai and working is allowed (with a WP etc).

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## Stumpy

My input as I retired early,

Your proposed monthly budget is really relative to what your expectations are. If you want to live easy and simply no issue at all. If you want to go out and travel and play a bit you will need to save for those trips but that's OK. 

I personally think people fail in retirement because they had no hobbies or life outside of work. Then they retire and go crazy, panic and think they need to work because they know nothing else. I read quite a bit before I retired from guys that failed and guys that succeeded. The ones that succeeded were not loaded with cash necessarily but were extremely active with numerous hobbies while they worked then when they retired they just got busier and dove into them more. I am in that boat. I am not flush with cash but man do I have a ton of hobbies, most do not cost any money. Just time. Every day is whatever I make it. I planned it where I have zero debt. Own a house here with my wife and our living costs are really minimal.

Enjoy your retirement.

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## HuangLao

> Really? Surely the 800k is for retirement, single or married, where working is not allowed. The 400k is for a person married to a Thai and working is allowed (with a WP etc).


Yep...
Correct definitive.

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## nidhogg

JPPR2 has an important point.  When my dad retired, he had nothing.  Spiraled into an early death.  Cancer took him, but he had lost the will to live years before that.

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## Stumpy

> JPPR2 has an important point.  When my dad retired, he had nothing.  Spiraled into an early death.  Cancer took him, but he had lost the will to live years before that.


It's quite common, sadly.  People work their entire adult life to retire then get there and walk off a cliff. It is especially traumatic when one is forced into retirement.

Before retiring one should ask themselves what they will do to have fun and stay busy? I think people focus waaaay too much about money. Don't get me wrong, it makes life easier and expands options but it shouldn't be an obsession. I enjoyed my working career for the most part and really love retirement now.

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## nidhogg

^ I am lucky.  I have two places with "dibs" on me when i retire, and a number of other options.  All work related.  I could not even imagine having nothing.  I would be dead in a year.

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## bowie

> Before retiring one should ask themselves what they will do to have fun and stay busy?


Yup, you have to do something "satisfying" with your time. Of course you can always fall back on practicing elbow flexing and bending. 

Nothing like seeing a couple of retirees sampling today's brewery selections for breakfast.

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## Norton

> Yup, you have to do something "satisfying" with your time


Masturbation does the trick for me.  :tosser1:

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## OhOh

> The 400k is for a person married to a Thai and working is allowed (with a WP etc).


A foreigner working in Thailand on a marriage visa, are you sure?

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## raycarey

> Masturbation does the trick for me.

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## Norton

> A foreigner working in Thailand on a marriage visa, are you sure?


Yes. I am. You can be here on marriage visa and work if you have a work permit.

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## Luigi

A WP can be granted on pretty much all Non-Imm visas, except the Non-Imm Ed based on education.

It isn't the norm, and you may have to explain it, then insist on it being possible at the local offices, as most will only be used to dealing with Non-B's.

The Permission of Temporary Stay should be extended to the end of your contract with 90 day reports to the local immigration office - no in/out 90 day visa runs. That's working illegally.

When the contract ends, you'd generally be given 7 days grace to sort yer shite out.

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## TizMe

> Really? Surely the 800k is for retirement, single or married, where working is not allowed. The 400k is for a person married to a Thai and working is allowed (with a WP etc).


Nope. I retired in Thailand in 2004. 400k in the bank and no work permit.
It was a PITA at immigration because they didn't think that I should be retired at 44 years old, but thats what it was.

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## Neverna

> Nope. I retired in Thailand in 2004. 400k in the bank and no work permit.
> It was a PITA at immigration because they didn't think that I should be retired at 44 years old, but thats what it was.


So you retired on a marriage visa and you were allowed to work but chose not to? Or were the rules just different then? 

I'm sue nowadays one has to be 50 years old to qualify for a visa/extension of stay based on retirement.

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## Stumpy

> So you retired on a marriage visa and you were allowed to work but chose not to? Or were the rules just different then? 
> 
> I'm sue nowadays one has to be 50 years old to qualify for a visa/extension of stay based on retirement.


Nev,
I don't think Tiz is saying to immigration he retired.  He applied and received a marriage Visa. I am here using a marriage Visa and am retired now. If you are 50 and older you can apply for a Retirement visa.  You can be any age and married to a Thai and apply for a marriage Visa as long as you have the financial means.

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## AntRobertson

> retired at 44 years old


Crikey that's quite young to have retired. Good for you I guess, what's the secret??  :Very Happy:

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## Luigi

> You can be any age and married to a Thai and apply for a marriage Visa as long as you have the financial means.


The Non-O is really a kind of 'family' visa rather than a marriage visa. Same one is used if you are here based on your child while unmarried.

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## Loy Toy

^ I just received my 33rd WP based upon my parental/ guardian visa.

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## cyrille

I thought you were 'awarded' them.  :Very Happy:

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## Loy Toy

> I thought you were 'awarded' them.


You are confused again Simple although receiving or being awarded a WP is much the same end result.

My official awards are the PM Sponsored "Thai Product of the Year" award of which I have received two.

I will not mention my Japanese Industry Awards because that would just drive you deeper into your jealous abyss!  :Very Happy:

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## cyrille

> You are confused again


 :Very Happy: 

That was the word you used for getting your work permit.

All that booze is affecting your memory.




> I am over 60 and was awarded a work permit to work in Thailand by the Thai Government.


 :smiley laughing:

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## Loy Toy

^ Oh I forget to mention the patents I have been awarded Simple. Another one just reached publishing status / public domain so another notch in my belt.

Just to make your day!  :smiley laughing:

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## cyrille

Hey, that's nothing.

I've been awarded some digestive biscuits to eat while watching the cricket.

 :smiley laughing:

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## Fondles

> A WP can be granted on pretty much all Non-Imm visas, except the Non-Imm Ed based on education.
> 
> It isn't the norm, and you may have to explain it, then insist on it being possible at the local offices, as most will only be used to dealing with Non-B's.
> 
> The Permission of Temporary Stay should be extended to the end of your contract with 90 day reports to the local immigration office - no in/out 90 day visa runs. That's working illegally.
> 
> When the contract ends, you'd generally be given 7 days grace to sort yer shite out.


The 7 day grace is for those with a permission to stay extension based on working... and working for a BOI company, working for a non BOI company you have until midnight to get the fuck out or sort a 7 day extension.

If married it is far better to get the permission to stay extension based on that.

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## Loy Toy

> I've been awarded some digestive biscuits to eat while watching the cricket.


Gotta be better then the Humble Pie you get awarded on a daily bases hey Simple?  :rofl:

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## Stumpy

> The Non-O is really a kind of 'family' visa rather than a marriage visa.


Agreed. I use marriage because that's what I am living here using. But "family" is the proper term. 

Back to the topic, retiring is not for everyone. Some folks absolutely want to, desire and need work to feel complete, validate themselves and of course the need for money. Whatever works and I respect and understand it. 

Interestingly I currently have an offer in the works from a US company to over see operations here but in a more technical role versus the exec role and I am confident I will decline. The location is better then I had in Korat but still SOS for the most part.  I quite like my peaceful life and not being back in the world of dealing with people, office politics and ego's, problems, meetings, reports, revenue expectations, conf calls at god awful times etc etc. I like getting up every day and it being different and of course having a cocktail anytime I feel like it as every day is a Friday.....  :Smile:

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## bowie

> I quite like my peaceful life and not being back in the world of dealing with people, office politics and ego's, problems, meetings, reports, revenue expectations, conf calls at god awful times etc etc.


Hear, hear... love it, no responsibilities, no timelines, no deadlines, no schedules, no EOM's, no quarter recaps, no evaluations, no one breathing down my neck, no "stupid" questions, no alarm clocks, no telephone calls, no emergencies, no production delays, no quotas, no downtime, no dead time, no interruptions, and none of the long, long line of etc's

I just can't figure out how I survived with my sanity semi-intact, if I only knew then what I know now, I would have retired a dozen years ago...

Live' the life and Lovin' It - "boredom" don't know the meaning of the word

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## Stumpy

> Hear, hear... love it, no responsibilities, no timelines, no deadlines, no schedules, no EOM's, no quarter recaps, no evaluations, no one breathing down my neck, no "stupid" questions, no alarm clocks, no telephone calls, no emergencies, no production delays, no quotas, no downtime, no dead time, no interruptions, and none of the long, long line of etc's
> 
> I just can't figure out how I survived with my sanity semi-intact, if I only knew then what I know now, I would have retired a dozen years ago...


We did it and kept at it for a host of reasons. Money was probably #1 to provide for oneself and family later. Of course encompassed in that is paying a mortgage, home owners ins, car payments, auto insurance, property tax, cable, gas, electric, food, medical insurance, clothes, etc etc. It kept us just moving forward because...well... it had too. Cannot quit. everything would be lost.

 I had some OUTSTANDING technical positions at start ups that went public. they were a blast. Some how later I was moved to run operations. Never cared for upper management. Money was great, the people not so much. I would have loved to had stayed in the engineering segment. Far more rewarding. Anyway, Paid my dues. Started planning my exit around 40 with a goal of 50, achieved it at 48. Stayed out for awhile then got lured back in, then retired again only to be lured back in. Each time my threshold for asshats was less and less. This is why I will pass on the opportunity. Just cannot see myself living my life in weekends and holidays ever again. :Smile:

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## bowie

> Some how later I was moved to run operations. Never cared for upper management. Money was great, the people not so much. I would have loved to had stayed in the engineering segment.


Myself, engineer, operations, military trained, get the job done, and I was damn good at it, so copious quantities of cash to keep me happy. Upper management, offered and refused by choice, can not and will not tolerate the synthetic smiles, back-stabbing, finger-pointing, credit-stealing greedy assholes that inhabit the conference rooms, so, I stuck with the machinery, far better and much more honorable dealings. 

Anyway, my life played out, in a word, "successfully" - wouldn't really change a thing, but, when I do look back and reflect, never really any decisions had to be made, my options and the paths I chose always seemed to be fairly well laid out in front of me. When a career path decision was required, the best path did seem pretty clear. I did pass up considerable amounts of cash for personal reasons. But, I've got plenty to pay the bills and more than enough to last me. A game well played. No Regrets.

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## tomcat

...^so many successful retirees posting here: puts to shame the sundry pie sellers, toad catchers, fat cnuts and artificial inseminators we so frequently see...

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## Luigi

> The 7 day grace is for those with a permission to stay extension based on working... and working for a BOI company, working for a non BOI company you have until midnight to get the fuck out or sort a 7 day extension.


Yup, which is why I said generally. Most immigration offices will give a 7 day extension, I've seen  a few cases where they've only been given 24 hours, but that's always been down to some sort of Thai revenge/payback from the employer for some perceived slight - refusing a new contract, not seeing out a contract though abiding by clauses in it. etc.

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## Stumpy

> I've got plenty to pay the bills and more than enough to last me. A game well played. No Regrets.


Where I am exactly. Not flush in cash but clearly never going to go without. Life at home GREAT. wife happy, FIL just doing his thing. 

In fact here are a few pics. I made me up a nice Long island Iced tea and on a beauty night went out and washed my truck with music playing on the the speakers I mounted in the shop.



Truck washed and drink in hand.





My Choco lab chilled while my Golden retriever was thinking about going after the birds on the other grass area.



And there is Joey....1 of the 4 big Sulcata tortoises that just cruise around the place. I hosed him off , he drank some water , looked at me and moved on.

Just another day at the JPPR2 zoo.... :smiley laughing:

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## OhOh

> a beauty night went out and washed my truck with music playing on the the speakers I mounted in the shop.


I hope you turned your music off at 11pm.

 :Smile:

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## bowie

> the sundry pie sellers, toad catchers, fat cnuts and artificial inseminators we so frequently see...


Harsh...

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## tomcat

...^nonsense: you haven't been paying attention...

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## Stumpy

> I hope you turned your music off at 11pm.


By 9. I couldn't hear it anymore over the Thai music being played 3 streets over.   :Smile:

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## Chittychangchang

£2500 per month to retire comfortably minimum.
100,000 baht per month, no wonder Thailand is desirable for retirees.

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## TizMe

> So you retired on a marriage visa and you were allowed to work but chose not to? Or were the rules just different then? 
> 
> I'm sue nowadays one has to be 50 years old to qualify for a visa/extension of stay based on retirement.


I wasn't allowed to work. I had no WP.

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## TizMe

> Crikey that's quite young to have retired. Good for you I guess, what's the secret??


8 years in the Middle East earning some nice tax free Riyals.

After 2 years though, I got an email from a friend saying " I know you're happy bludging in Thailand, but I've got a 6 month contract going here. Its yours if you want it."

I've been back working ever since...

Maybe I'll retire again next year...

----------


## tomcat

...^that was always the bait on the hook for me: another, even more lucrative contract for an even longer stay in the dunes...eventually, lucre lost its allure...

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## naptownmike

I think that would probably be enough in the village where I plan to retire. Everything is pretty inexpensive compared to some of the bigger cities I've been to of course there aren't many western food imports to buy like the big cities. The only real unknown factor is health care like mentioned earlier. What's the going rate for a years health care these days? That is the only real unknown for me about what my own retirement will be. I think 60k baht a month would be plenty for us as the house is paid up but all that could change if some big medical situation comes up. My brother in law was diagnosed with stage 4 liver cancer less than a year after retiring needless to say that changed all their plans and it's been real sad.
  Best of luck to you. I find this topic very interesting as I also am looking forward to retiring in about 10 years so I'm always looking for experience.

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## bowie

^^ Well, for myself, the retirement plan had been worked out less the actual timing. 

The financial side was of little consideration because I had accumulated an "adequate" nest egg. On a side note of adequate, my requirements are minimal, so adequate was easy.

My decision to pull the plug was in response to a few, uhm... as the CEO put it when I left "corporate decisions". Well, they made business/corporate decisions that hurt some very good people, I decided I no longer wanted to work with them. 

These folk (company officers) were pulling in between USD 500k - $1M per with bonuses then firing (laying off as they called) five $13/14/15 per hours workers to "save money". Hell, if the officers had taken a 5% pay cut (or just didn't award themselves their ridiculous bonuses) the workers could have remained. This was not a big company 40-50 employees total and had, well prior to the layoffs, a "correctly" staffed labor force.

Kicked me in the funny bone. Here they go laying off hourly workers to save money then paying more in overtime to get the work completed. 

Anyway, they made a corporate decision, I made a personal one, I left - just wasn't a good place to work after the axeman visited. Worried employees walking around looking over their shoulders "who's next?"

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## bowie

> What's the going rate for a years health care these days?


I'm paying USD $365/mo. THB 12k per month for two persons, 62yo male and 57yo Thai wife. Thats with a USD $5k deductible and a USD $1M maximum. 
That will cover us should an accident or a major medical crisis occur. 

Problem is (and I have spoken to a couple of expat medical insurance brokers) we, as in everybody, will see annual increases in premiums, probably 5-10% and then when I get to 65yo, wife to 60yo, we move up a bracket to higher base costs. I expect that when we hit the 70/65yo brackets "medical" insurance will be cost-prohibitive. At that point in time we will have US Medicare and will probably get an expat policy to cover "accidents" and medical repatriation in the event of a serious medical condition. 

But, as with everything, can't predict the future. Detailed investigations of just what options are available at the time will occur "at the time".

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## Stumpy

> ...^that was always the bait on the hook for me: another, even more lucrative contract for an even longer stay in the dunes...eventually, lucre lost its allure...


That's always the bait TC. Little bit more money, stipend generous,  great perks but it all just gets boring. Same shit, just a different day.

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## Stumpy

Its interesting that many folks seem to build their retirement around the "Medical" unknowns. Many are literally gripped by it and are afraid not to work because they will have no "Medical" benefits.

I look at it this way. We all have a shelf life. The best we can do is take care of ourselves. Unknowns are just that..unknowns. Can't plan them, can't predict them so why worry about them? I figure if I can make it to 70 with health being average I will consider it a big win. I have lived, seen and done enough. Probably should have died a dozen times or more doing the crazy extreme shit I did.

I have it clearly written in my Will that if I am diagnosed with a terminal disease or have an event that puts me on life support they are to remove me from life support or let me pass from the terminal disease. I absolutely do not want to have the hard earned money I made going to doctors and hospitals to keep me living in a truly unproductive quality of life. I have watched people spend everything they have, sell everything they own to keep someone alive and they died anyway. People are too emotional about getting old and dying. Play hard, live life and when your ticket is up....It's up.  :Smile:

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## Luigi

> Its interesting that many folks seem to build their retirement around the "Medical" unknowns. Many are literally gripped by it and are afraid not to work because they will have no "Medical" benefits.


Yeah, it's a bit strange.

Mainly seems to be a fixation with Americans.

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## Stumpy

> Yeah, it's a bit strange.
> 
> Mainly seems to be a fixation with Americans.


I agree. I know for a fact that the US sells medical and sickness fear to the people. Its relentless. Every TV channel, every magazine has some new drug marketing out to help with a disease that most never knew existed until the drug was released... :Smile: . Of course the side effects are worse then what the drug is supposed to help. Those drug costs are extremely expensive and this spills over into people worrying about medical costs. IMHO the US has made its population a bunch of pharmaceutical drug addicts.

You know, I know a few folks that will not travel outside the US because as they say "They need to be near their doctor just in case because they cannot get the meds they need anywhere else". Pretty pathetic and sad.

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## cyrille

Yeah, I noticed that holidaying in New England. 

In particular, according to the adverts every American male over 30 when huntin' shootin', fishin' or relaxin' with his gal by his side is plagued by the constant fear of pissing his pants.

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## fishlocker

Best buy me some Depends then.

As  I fart in your general direction,  as your father smells of elderberry.

Now go ahead and boil your bottom. 


you're  ...

I'll leave it at that .



Now Henry snapper organs was running amok playing blind pew in the tail they call.



the fish.

----------


## OhOh

> it all just gets boring. Same shit, just a different day.


Yes, once the thrill disappears it's time for a new adventure, which the Land of Smiles can deliver in spades.




> People are too emotional about getting old and dying. Play hard, live life and when your ticket is up....It's up.


Adventure, risks and heart stopping events as you suggest, is a lifetime well spent.

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## fishlocker

I guess if you live where everything is, or has been fucked over I can feel the generalizations hitting home. 
Now for those who have never lived a November to remember it will be out shortly in my next book.

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## fishlocker

In other words, I think the Stones may have said it best.

Somthing  like get off of the clouds.

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## NamPikToot

> Truck washed and drink in hand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there is Joey....1 of the 4 big Sulcata tortoises that just cruise around the place. I hosed him off , he drank some water , looked at me and moved on.
> ...


JPPR I love those tortoises, they'd make me smile every day.

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## can123

> JPPR I love those tortoises, they'd make me smile every day.


You should consider seeing a doctor.

----------


## NamPikToot

> You should consider seeing a doctor.


Too late Can, deep rooted Tortoise fixation

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## Luigi

> they'd make me smile every day.


Yup.

Put them on their back, then sit with a cold beer.

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## NamPikToot

> Yup.Put them on their back, then sit with a cold beer.


Manny will be along to point out the obvious shortly. :Smile:

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## bowie

^ 

    ? spectator sport ?

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## bowie

Got this from somewhere, don’t know where, can’t find it so I can’t credit the author, but, food-for-thought concerning retirement. Don’t wait too long to retire.

Early Retirement and some logical reasoning. 

*The sooner you retire, the sooner you have the chance to live a life doing what you really want to do.*

So set your finances then flip the switch and transition into an enjoyable second act. Don’t make the mistake of waiting too long to retire. 

While you are still relatively young you can undertake the adventurous journeys you contemplated but never had time for while working. If you are able to retire with your health and stamina intact, you can attack the proverbial “Bucket List”.

You are now free to custom design the ideal day. You make the rules and get to decide what activity to engage in and how you spend your time. Finally, you are in control.


You can more fully enjoy time spent with grandchildren as you endeavor to tire them out before they tire you.Prepare to revel in your new job as a full-time retiree, a role from which you can never be fired. Leaving work behind translates into no more meetings, reviews, work stress or struggle to climb the corporate ladder.You have the opportunity to explore your creative side. Whether writing, music or painting, retirement affords you the time to dream and create.Since it is no longer about the money, you daily endeavors do not need to generate cash. You don’t have to be productive every minute of every day unless you want to. Instead, you can do nothing for as long as you want and not feel guilty. You have earned it.

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## Stumpy

> JPPR I love those tortoises, they'd make me smile every day.


They are interesting. They have free reign and just cruise around our place and eat the grass and weeds. They do wander up underneath the house from time to time while I am relaxing and smack the table to let me know they are there. The neighbor kids love them and drop by to show their friends and take pics. I find it really funny when guests stop by and one or 2 cruise across the driveway or grass and they freak out and point. We plan on breeding a pair at some point. All 4 have been registered with the Thai animal department in CM.

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## Stumpy

> The sooner you retire, the sooner you have the chance to live a life doing what you really want to do.


That is true Bowie, but you know many have no idea what they will do in retirement. They have been working and been told what to do, when to do it and when its due their entire life. I have known a few that talked about retirement and all they would do. A few died already and never got there.  Recently a friend told me about his buddy that had a heart attack likely brought on from stress and now is limited on his personal activities.

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## NamPikToot

> They are interesting. They have free reign and just cruise around our place and eat the grass and weeds. They do wander up underneath the house from time to time while I am relaxing and smack the table to let me know they are there. The neighbor kids love them and drop by to show their friends and take pics. I find it really funny when guests stop by and one or 2 cruise across the driveway or grass and they freak out and point. We plan on breeding a pair at some point. All 4 have been registered with the Thai animal department in CM.


Guard Tortoises, genius. I really like em but they live soooo long i could never conscience getting them, i'd worry they'd outlive me and then who'd care for them after.

Be great to train them as waiters, keep your booze consumption restrained :Smile:

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## Stumpy

> Guard Tortoises, genius. I really like em but they live soooo long i could never conscience getting them, i'd worry they'd outlive me and then who'd care for them after.
> 
> Be great to train them as waiters, keep your booze consumption restrained



They do live a long ass time and get nearly double the size if food source is available. 

Guard tortoises...5555. I need to teach them to bark. The other day I heard this odd noise in the yard on the other side while I was doing work. I walked over towards it and the big male was humpin the older female. Never seen that before. Its funny and the noise the male makes is hilarious. My wife came over and couldn't stop laughing.

As waiters...that would help on my cocktail consumption albeit I have reduced my cocktail consumption to 1 day a week now. (Usually Friday or Saturday)

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## tomcat

> i'd worry they'd outlive me and then who'd care for them after.


...so, like kids then...

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## Stumpy

> Put them on their back, then sit with a cold beer.


Hey the males have had some outright battles until one is flipped over. I was thinking about an online betting dealio. Like cock fighting except this is much slowerrrrrrrrrrrr. :smiley laughing:

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## NamPikToot

> The other day I heard this odd noise in the yard on the other side while I was doing work. I walked over towards it and the big male was humpin the older female. Never seen that before. Its funny and the noise the male makes is hilarious. My wife came over and couldn't stop laughing.
> 
> As waiters...that would help on my cocktail consumption albeit I have reduced my cocktail consumption to 1 day a week now. (Usually Friday or Saturday)


Yeah, they are quite wheezy when going at it, still aren't we all as we get older :Smile: 

As for waiters, you'd best put your orders in on Thursday.

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## TizMe

> ...^that was always the bait on the hook for me: another, even more lucrative contract for an even longer stay in the dunes...eventually, lucre lost its allure...


Yeah, I don't think I'd ever go back to Saudi, even though I had a great time while I was there.

Since going back to work I've just done contracts in Brisbane, Singapore and now in PH.

I have an office thats only 2 blocks from where I live, but in nearly 4 years that I've been here I think I've stepped inside the office less than 6 times.

Working from home is great. I recently spent 3 month visiting my Mum & Dad in Sydney, so just continued to work while I was there.

If they ever decide that I need to spend more time in the office, then I think I'd just resign. (or just continually disobey the directive until they terminate me)

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## bowie

> They have been working and been told what to do, when to do it and when its due their entire life.


Ahh, yes… a life defined. Just gotta love being a lemming. Graduate, get a job, marry, have kids, give away the daughters, retire at 65, babysit the grandkids, die… after all, What more is there to life?

Simple as that. During the days of defined pension plans, today, with 401k plans and IRA’s, you have to add “accumulate a nest egg”. Eventually you will get sick, happens to everybody, the calendar pages turn and sooner or later, you get sick, once you are sick, the medicos will develop a plan to drain your nest egg to nothing, and then, and only then, will you be allowed to die.

I myself cannot understand the personality of a “bored retirement”, much the same as assembly line workers who love their job of doing the same thing, every hour, every day, every year, every decade. Living a working life of no challenges, a life of complacency, well, to each their own.

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## NamPikToot

> , the medicos will develop a plan to drain your nest egg to nothing, and then, and only then, will you be allowed to die..


Sadly with care costs climbing and legislation to raid your assets, its going the same way in the UK. Still, it doesn't cost much to get someone to chew your food for you in Thailand :Smile:

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## Stumpy

> Ahh, yes… a life defined. Just gotta love being a lemming. Graduate, get a job, marry, have kids, give away the daughters, retire at 65, babysit the grandkids, die… after all, What more is there to life?


Honestly, nothing wrong with the first part of it. Its how we put away enough to retire. 

Retire at 65, Babysit Grand kids was and still isn't ever part of my plans. If my daughters have children they can hire babysitters like I did. My parents never watched my daughters. They'd visit, hang out for a day or 2 and leave. Perfect. HAHAHA

I have been assisting a few guys younger then me by a few years about retiring early. They see what I am doing, How happy and relaxed I am.

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## bowie

> Honestly, nothing wrong with the first part of it.


Actually nothing wrong with any of it. To each their own, and as long as you are "happy" you have won the game of life. 

As far as your assistance - I solicited advice from many, many expats who had traveled the path before me. I listened to them, took their advice, did not repeat any of their "mistakes" and it paid off in dividends, a most "smooth" transition; financials, accommodations, household goods, transportation, customs, immigration, taxation, etc. 

All in all my expat retirement "To Do" list actually exceeded 100 line items. Preparation is key. You can wing it, as many have, but, eliminating problems before they occur, well, speaks for itself. Smooth, easy, minimal disruptions/interruptions = no "fires" to put out.

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## tomcat

> Graduate, get a job, marry, have kids, give away the daughters, retire at 65, babysit the grandkids, die… after all, What more is there to life?


...fortunately, these aren't the only options for a happy life...




> You can wing it, as many have, but, eliminating problems before they occur, well, speaks for itself. Smooth, easy, minimal disruptions/interruptions = no "fires" to put out.


...then you're hit by a bus and suffer a horrible and agonizing death under the front tires...

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## cyrille

> ...fortunately, these aren't the only options for a happy life...


Umm, yes...I think you'll find that's bowie's point.





> then you're hit by a bus


Perhaps not so bad given the suffocating smugness on display here.  :Very Happy:

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## Stumpy

> All in all my expat retirement "To Do" list actually exceeded 100 line items. Preparation is key. You can wing it, as many have, but, eliminating problems before they occur, well, speaks for itself. Smooth, easy, minimal disruptions/interruptions = no "fires" to put out.


Agreed. There is however an element of fun winging it. I was what I considered 70% prepared when I called it. Many literally prepare to make it a perfect scenario but that is a rabbit they chase forever and many do and never retire because of it. I know many in that boat. I figure I will run out of my play money and be a full on pensioner by about 70 to 72. . At that point though, who really cares. This is all under the premise I will live to 70..... :Smile: 





> fortunately, these aren't the only options for a happy life...


Absolutely TC. Ones happiness is what they enjoy, whatever that may be.

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## jabir

> Hey the males have had some outright battles until one is flipped over. I was thinking about an online betting dealio. Like cock fighting except this is much slowerrrrrrrrrrrr.

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## Luigi

> Ones happiness is what they enjoy, whatever that may be.


Luckily enough being smug on the internet is free.

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## OhOh

> these aren't the only options for a happy life...


Why not share your alternate options with us. Some may find them more appealing.

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## Scottish Gary

The woman situation is a difficult one for retirees. Most guys don't want to be alone especially as they reach their twilight years but at the same time, a Thai partner can kill your budget. I'm not talking about buying gold for your 21-year-old princess but for family emergencies. There always seems to be a family crisis that can only be solved by the farang parting with his cash.

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## BobR

As it appears to stand now, you'll need 800,000Baht in a Thai bank since embassy letters to prove income are about to be eliminated and immigration has not said what other evidence if income they'll accept.

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## Fondles

> As it appears to stand now, you'll need 800,000Baht in a Thai bank since embassy letters to prove income are about to be eliminated and immigration has not said what other evidence if income they'll accept.


To be fair if someone does not have that amount of coin then realistically they probably cannot afford to retire anyways.

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## tomcat

> As it appears to stand now, you'll need 800,000Baht in a Thai bank


...or B65K+ of monthly deposits from outside Thailand...



> To be fair if someone does not have that amount of coin then realistically they probably cannot afford to retire anyways.


...I think that's the point of choosing Thailand to retire: it's cheap...

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## Headworx

> ...I think that's the point of choosing Thailand to retire: it's cheap...


It cheap(er) than most places in the West, that's for sure. Well it _can_ be, but obviously if you had the means and wanted to spend more per month here on living expenses than the average person does in London, Melbourne, LA, or Hong Kong, you can. And easily. 

I've rarely seen anyone retire who didn't wish at some time down the road that they had a bigger nest-egg or that they'd have kept working for a bit longer, what normally bites them is not taking cost of living increases into consideration - or at least underestimating them - and exchange rates. Nobody can predict what these 2 thing will do in the future, but they're both crucial to most retirees standard of life plans. 

But it's a fine-line to walk getting the timing just right. A good friend and colleague recently retired after 35 years with an Oil Major at upper management position making big bucks. I often asked him over the years why he didn't pack it in and enjoy life (I know he was worth USD $3,000,000+ in his mid fifties). So he finally retired earlier this year at the age of 61, and was dead from cancer 5 months later. 14 weeks from first diagnosis to brown bread. 

Makes you think....

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## bowie

> Well it can be,


Correct - 25 years ago I worked in the jewelry business district of Bangkok, lived in a "luxury" apartment, luxury by Thai standards. Long and short of it was, at that point in time, it cost me more to live in Bangkok city than in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Not much more, but, more.

When to retire - personal choice. Again, regardless of how much you have or where you live you MUST live within your means. 

Death is just around the corner - one moments carelessness can cause an accidental death, several fatal medical conditions, disease, poisoning, etc. Hey, the human body is a fragile instrument and doesn't take abuse well.

Don't think anybody will ever get the "timing" right. Only way you could do that is to know exactly when you terminate.


Back to cost of living. You can live very cheaply in Thailand if you can live like a Thai. I can't.

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## Norton

> 25 years ago I worked in the jewelry business district of Bangkok


Lived in Bangkok at the time as well. Knew a bunch of guys associated with the gem biz. As with most of Bangkok, big changes since that time.

Nail on the head re cost of living. Extreme difference between going 100% local to near 0% local. Guesstimate but 25k baht for 100% local to 100k baht for near 0. A bit more or less depending on accomodation and entertainment cost you choose to have.

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## headhunter

anyone thinking of retirering from the uk.and moving to thailand had better think again,unless you have a well into which you can drop a bucked and pull it back up full of bundles of cash,compare these rates,your retirement extension amount you have to deposit has risen early 2016 it was 16,000gbp.today its 19,000gbp.and rising.
yes you can live cheap,rice,noodles but once the honeymoon period is over and you want some lamb and mince sauce,your goner be in for a shock.

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## cyrille

> once the honeymoon period is over and you want some lamb and mince sauce,your goner be in for a shock.


It won't have mince in it?

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## headhunter

then there is those that has medical problems and need medication.
i was lucky i knew exactly what i needed before i came here,but this last year i have to add 2more tabs costing 56bht.each every day,that brings my total to 11every day.
with the expensive ones i am lucky i have a contact that supplies me.
everyone that comes here needs some cover of some sort,because hospitals are not cheap,a private one,can set you back a million bht. with just a few weeks in ICU.
and if a PINK BUFFALO needs to be replaced then you could be looking over a 10th.floor balcony.

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## headhunter

> It won't have mince in it?


sorry C i just got the jar out to make some for todays dinner,ITS COLEMANS MINT SAUCE [135bht] got rosemary in the garden,garlic in a bucket but mint i cant grow any at all,it keeps going black.

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## cyrille

:Very Happy: 

We've had similar problems.

Got some growing right now, but not really in sufficient volume to do much with it.

I make raita with it on the occasion that we have enough.

It seems to me like it would be a good idea if you weaned yourself off English tucker. It's really not that great anyway, is it?

I guess you're not with a Thai partner.

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## Stumpy

> When to retire - personal choice. Again, regardless of how much you have or where you live you MUST live within your means. 
> 
> Death is just around the corner - one moments carelessness can cause an accidental death, several fatal medical conditions, disease, poisoning, etc. Hey, the human body is a fragile instrument and doesn't take abuse well.
> 
> Don't think anybody will ever get the "timing" right. Only way you could do that is to know exactly when you terminate.


Well said. ANything can happen on any given day. However I tend to disagree on the human body being a fragile instrument. The human body is amazing in that it can take a lot of abuse and recover. I have always been amazed what me and numerous friends of mine did over the years and quick recovery and back at it. 




> Back to cost of living. You can live very cheaply in Thailand if you can live like a Thai. I can't.


I have always found this comment interesting.... "Live like a Thai". The Thai folk I know and worked with live quite well. Most have nice houses, 1 or 2 cars, dress clean, are always out and about doing something and eat out frequently. So my view is vastly different then others. I think most state this in reference to Thai's living in a Teak shack on stilts in the middle of nowhere, eating Somtam, bugs and roasting animals on an open fire... :Smile: . For me in the states that would be like living in the backwoods of Tennessee or the Bayou area in New Orleans. I couldn't live like those folks if I was in the states.




> A bit more or less depending on accommodation and entertainment cost you choose to have.


That's really the crux of it all Norton. IMHO the way you keep the COL cheap is a balance of Thai and western. I can easily live on 35k to 40K baht a month and live well (including a trip or 2 somewhere near by for a few days). This also includes a balance of some "western" foods like spaghetti, a nice steak, Pork tenderloin, Salmon,  BBQ Pork Ribs, baked potatoes etc etc. But I also enjoy the majority of Thai dishes and as we know those are really inexpensive. My single largest living expense each month is power and that ranges between 2k to 3K baht a month. Where things get really expensive are when folks insist on eating out for "western" foods or fusion Thai restaurants or require a house full of Western foods.  That and travel to 5 star hotels and eat the hotel food or drink in bars. Of course paying for companionship on a regular basis has a steep price tag as well.

----------


## Fondles

> Correct - 25 years ago I worked in the jewelry business district of Bangkok, lived in a "luxury" apartment, luxury by Thai standards. Long and short of it was, at that point in time, it cost me more to live in Bangkok city than in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Not much more, but, more.


Hah, I used to live a nice life in Chonburi (relative to salary)... moved home and live just as good for less (I don't have an income but pay no rent)... have had 3 2 week holidays back this year and it is crazy the money spent considering I stayed in average hotels and never stepped a foot inside a bar/agogo !!

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## tomcat

...so, it appears that no one is able to suggest a retirement lifestyle that is completely appropriate for another...to sum up: it all depends on what your resources are vs your requirements for a comfortable life...

----------


## bowie

> I have always found this comment interesting.... "Live like a Thai". The Thai folk I know and worked with live quite well. Most have nice houses, 1 or 2 cars, dress clean, are always out and about doing something and eat out frequently. So my view is vastly different then others. I think most state this in reference to Thai's living in a Teak shack on stilts in the middle of nowhere, eating Somtam, bugs and roasting animals on an open fire....


Really does depend on your station in life and the folk you deal with – you, and I, are “High Tech”, we hang and work with a “higher” economic level of folk than the “general public”. Now, I base my references on my extended Thai family, good folk, most are hard workers and average a bit above most Thai’s on the economic level, yet, I cannot comfortably live the lifestyle they are provided. 

Realizing the following: 

https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/wages
Wages in Thailand increased to 14,075.55 THB/Month in the third quarter of 2018 from 13,788.56 THB/Month in the second quarter of 2018. Wages in Thailand averaged 9,515.51 THB/Month from 1999 until 2018, reaching an all-time high of 14,075.55 THB/Month in the third quarter of 2018 and a record low of 6,344 THB/Month in the first quarter of 2000.

So, by comparative measures – "live like a Thai" means living on THB 14k/month. Can’t do it. For more factual data, I have/had budgeted myself and my wife, married couple living in an owned home, a budget of THB 90k/month. As time rolls on, we are actually spending about THB 100k/month. Now, my drinking days are over, we do eat good, but, I enjoy Thai food and my wife is a very good cook. She cooks 4-5 days a week and we buy “open air market” Thai food and occasionally eat out. We live in Nonthaburi and it is not unusual for a weekly grocery shopping to approach the THB 5k range.

To amplify, meds, vitamin supplements, medical insurance, transportation, other insurances add up and account for the majority of our spending.

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## tomcat

> you, and I, are “High Tech”, we hang and work with a “higher” economic level of folk than the “general public”.


...La Di Dah...

----------


## Stumpy

> So, by comparative measures – "live like a Thai" means living on THB 14k/month. Can’t do it.


I concur. If we take the Thai avg standard of living I too could not live on 14k baht a month. 




> To amplify, meds, vitamin supplements, medical insurance, transportation, other insurances add up


This too has a HUGE impact on living anywhere. I seriously doubt that if I had a serious or chronic medical ailment I would have moved here. I would have legged it out in the US and then waited until Medicare kicked in. Honestly my wife and I always have a path back to the states in the event something was to go horribly wrong here but if its just about slowly aging and biting the bullet, we will stay. I can croak here or there. Doesn't matter much, I am dead... :Smile: 





> ...so, it appears that no one is able to suggest a retirement lifestyle that is completely appropriate for another...to sum up: it all depends on what your resources are vs your requirements for a comfortable life.


^ this is, and always will be, the reality of it all TC. I chose to change my lifestyle a bit to live abroad. Nothing drastic mind you, just wanted to retire somewhere different. I think the key point is, I am cognizant that Thailand is not a paradise, a nirvana etc. Its another place to live. I absolutely could have moved to a different state in the US with my wife and maybe been able to retire early (doubt that but maybe) however after we went and looked it just did not sound as fun and my wife wasn't all that impressed.

----------


## tomcat

> this is, and always will be, the reality of it all


...you wouldn't know that reading the previous six pages, however...

----------


## cyrille

Well, except that it was pointed out in the first reply.

----------


## Stumpy

> ...you wouldn't know that reading the previous six pages, however...


To your point, the cross section of responses has been small if you look at what the OP thread title is. 

Only a few respond to the question. Like most, if not all threads, they go off on a tangent.

----------


## MickLondon

I plan to retire in Thailand in 2 years with 65k THB.

----------


## Boon Mee

> Nail on the head re cost of living. Extreme difference between going 100% local to near 0% local. Guesstimate but 25k baht for 100% local to 100k baht for near 0. A bit more or less depending on accomodation and entertainment cost you choose to have.


If one buys all his/her vittles at Tops or Villa Markets, that figure of 100K baht might be on the low side.

----------


## headhunter

[QUOTE=MickLondon;3912159]I plan to retire in Thailand in 2 years with 65k THB.[/QUOTE 
65million THB.might be enough.

----------


## aging one

> I plan to retire in Thailand in 2 years with 65k THB.


that will hold you for a  month..

----------


## tomcat

> If one buys all his/her vittles at Tops or Villa Markets, that figure of 100K baht might be on the low side.


...nonsense...it depends on what you buy at those locations: a bag of low-end rice is cheap and lasts for weeks; fresh greens, cheap meat cuts, fresh local fruit and various canned dregs are available at reasonably inexpensive prices as well...stay away, of course, from imported fish, red meat, fruit and veg and shop like the Thai middle-class housewives do...

----------


## Texpat

OP: Don't listen to these gasbags. Just do it and always keep an open ticket back with taxi fare to Swampy.

Yes it's that simple.

----------


## tomcat

> OP: Don't listen to these other gasbags


...ftfy...

----------


## jabir

> I plan to retire in Thailand in 2 years with 65k THB.


Borderline, assuming that's your monthlies and not life savings, but if the £ drops another baht you won't be able to meet visa requirements.

----------


## fishlocker

Still trying to figure out the dieing part of the equation.  Hell, I figure I should have been retired by now. But I keep getting up..



fish

----------


## bowie

> Still trying to figure out the dieing part of the equation. Hell, I figure I should have been retired by now. But I keep getting up..


Well FFS Stop Getting Up - problem solved - simple Innit

----------


## bowie

Retire? How much do you need per month? 

Anyway - why not bump the thread - always interesting "How long is a piece of string?" query. But, I'll change it a bit. 

*Your Situation? How much do you spend per month?
*
Situation: American Husband, Thai Wife, retirees, own home in Nonthaburi - transferring USD $2,500/mo. to Thailand. Spending about $2k/month. Exempt from calc (annual expenditure of USD $5k for a USD $1M expat medical insurance policy covering the both of us).

 Moo Baan Fee
$50

 Electricity
$100

 Water
$10

 TV & Internet
$100

 House Insurance
$50

 Car insurance
$60

 Transport & Auto
$50

 Food
$750

 Miscellaneous
$750

 Legal
$60

TOTAL/MONTH
$1,980



How 'bout yourself?

----------


## tomcat

...Legal=USD60 _monthly_? why?...

----------


## cyrille

> Last edited by bowie; Today at 12:17 PM. Reason: dress


Did you put that in miscellaneous?

Good to have a hobby, I guess.  :Very Happy:

----------


## aging one

Bowie, where is your health and perhaps life insurance. These are my two biggest costs.

----------


## Mandaloopy

So it looks like nearly 900kUSD would cover a decent retirement? That's a fairly large amount of cash to save over a lifetime. Can't see it happening tbh, I should be more worried about it than I am

----------


## cisco999

> f you have worked for that many years, you could find it a bit of a shock to the system to stop and retire. You are used to being busy, your partner is used to you being out all day 5 days a week.
> Not as easy as it seems in reality..


It took me about 30 seconds  to "adjust" to retirement.   Never looked back and have enjoyed the ride since.

----------


## Bettyboo

The problem is medical, unexpected costs and how long you live.

Just very hard to cost that out, imho...

----------


## Mandaloopy

I seriously need to start putting money into a pension scheme after this latest bout of studying. Would love to retire at 55, but that ain't gonna be happening.

----------


## bowie

> Legal=USD60 monthly? why?...


Elder Law Firm watching over my mother in the USA (peace-of-mind)

----------


## bowie

> Good to have a hobby, I guess.


hell yes, need a hobby, retiree, gotta keep myself occupied

----------


## bowie

> health and perhaps life insurance. These are my two biggest costs.


Life insurance, whole life, universal life and term life plans (both of us) $1.5k/annum for @ 125k in coverage for both.

Health insurance, Cigna Expat Silver $5k/annum, has $5k deductible, USD $1M maximum per illness, covers both of us.

Both health and life I pay from the accounts in the USA and did not include in my Thai budget. But $6.5k/12 = adds about $550/mo so, my actual spending is on the order of $2,500/mo or about USD $30k/annum

Complexity of taxation = USA married couple deduction is $24.4k this year so, withdrawals from my IRA are $36k - $24k = my taxable income'll be on the order of $12k at 10% My (our) tax bill will be about $1,200 this year.

Could tap into my Roths, but, not yet. When I start with my Soc Sec distributions I'll set up my IRA distributions Regular and roth to provide a zero tax bill.

----------


## bowie

> 900kUSD would cover a decent retirement?


Everything depends on ROI. I have my "nest egg" in a managed investment portfolio with a major brokerage firm. They're charging 1.25% to manage my investments. Roth and traditional IRA's in @ 15 varied mutual funds. They are "historically" returning @ 10% per annum. 

The 10% return is then diluted by their 1.25% fee and whatever the tax burden is. All in all I'm getting more than a positive 5% which more than covers what we are spending. 

Long range - we are in very good shape and can handle what life throws at us. Big decision is when will the cost or our health insurance justify switching to "self-funded"? It'll happen eventually. Within a decade for certain.

----------


## bowie

> nearly 900kUSD would cover a decent retirement?


To amplify @ 5% ROI spending use $30k = $600k 

Now that's a Gross Generalization. For myself and wife. In a few years we'll be tapping our USA social security retirement benefits - at that point in time we may well not have to take any distributions from or accumulated "nest egg". We will see.

----------


## bowie

> It took me about 30 seconds to "adjust" to retirement. Never looked back and have enjoyed the ride since.


Yup, living the life and loving it...

----------


## bowie

> Just very hard to cost that out, imho...


Crystal Ball - for myself and my wife. I would like to think we will both just forget to wakeup one day. 

If either gets a cancer - when does, or is, chemo justifed - had a friend with a bladder cancer - had a most horrible time with chemo over the course of a year, said he would refuse it is cancer reappeared. Wife says "no way", just let me die. Myself - well, my bucket list is empty, I'd like to think I would take the same attitude, but, unless you are in those shoes, you cannot answer the question. 

I have no responsibilities - so, I am allowed to die without "grossly" impacting others. No one will be worse off when I kick the bucket. But, those deep philosophical questions - I can't answer.

----------


## bowie

> putting money into a pension scheme


 *Yup,* a difficult task to start, easy once you have started.

----------


## Stumpy

> The problem is medical, unexpected costs and how long you live.
> 
> Just very hard to cost that out, imho...


You can't and shouldn't.  People get all wrapped around the axle on med costs and insurance,  especially Americans.  They have been brow beat with a constant fear about it. The people then tend to be gripped by it.  Now I think its prudent to have some reserves set aside but to have it be a deal breaker for places you want to live or just retire is a sad state. I know quite a few that will not retire because they do not want to be without a company med insurance.

----------


## tomcat

> a difficult task to start, easy once you have started


...not so difficult to start (at least, not in the US)...and watching one's nest egg grow over the years towards a pre-determined financial goal allows for many restful nights...

----------


## Stumpy

@ Bowie.  Your numbers are about the same as ours except our food bill is about $300 and Misc is probably $1000.  That's primarily for garden and property upgrades and my motorcycle hobby.

----------


## Stumpy

> ...not so difficult to start (at least, not in the US)...and watching one's nest egg grow over the years towards a pre-determined financial goal allows for many restful nights...


I was able to retire because of my 401k return over the years.

----------


## tomcat

...I was able to retire because tax-free sand dollars were deposited into a tax-free (before withdrawals) retirement account: now, I edit PhD dissertations, master's theses and sundry other documents to pass the time...as well as contribute scintillating restaurant reviews to a local forum...

----------


## Norton

> as well as contribute scintillating restaurant reviews to a local forum...


Big bucks doing it, I heard.

----------


## bowie

> People get all wrapped around the axle on med costs and insurance, especially Americans.


Yup, but, justifiably so...

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy
Published Feb 11, 2019

A new study from academic researchers found that 66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues —either because of high costs for care or time out of work. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found.


Basically - don't get sick. Now, if you have any assets you must protect them by carrying insurance.

----------


## Luigi

> Basically - don't get sick.


Really quite astounding that the US doesn't have a national health service that provides free health care to its citizens.


Given how many trillions they spend trying to scare the bejaysus out of other nations with their military.

----------


## tomcat

> Really quite astounding that the US doesn't have a national health service


...agree: though we have pieces of national health care (medicare, medicaid, Obamacare, etc)...insurance companies have done as good a job as gun manufacturers when it comes to propagating a wall of fear...

----------


## bowie

> have a national health service that provides free health care


No money in it... going off topic, but...

The USA medical/pharmaceutical/healthcare system is one manufactured/engineered/fine-tuned machine to empty pockets. 

The US government not only enables it, it supports it. Healthcare lobbyist "soft money" greases ALL the important wheels so the system will take decades to evolve into a socialized medical system. Eventually we (the USA) will have a "medicare for all" system. But, the insurance companies will fight it tooth and nail with lobbyist money.

"free health care" - doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.

----------


## tomcat

> doubt I'll see it in my lifetime


...not if you're over 10...

----------


## kmart

> No money in it... going off topic, but...
> 
> The USA medical/pharmaceutical/healthcare system is one manufactured/engineered/fine-tuned machine to empty pockets. 
> 
> The US government not only enables it, it supports it. Healthcare lobbyist "soft money" greases ALL the important wheels so the system will take decades to evolve into a socialized medical system. Eventually we (the USA) will have a "medicare for all" system. But, the insurance companies will fight it tooth and nail with lobbyist money.
> 
> "free health care" - doubt I'll see it in my lifetime.


Basically, declared war on their own population.

----------


## tomcat

> Basically, allowed and encouraged by politicians to declare war on their own population


...ftfy...

----------


## David48atTD

> ...as well as contribute scintillating restaurant reviews to a local forum...


I only read them for the fashion tips   :Smile:

----------


## Mandaloopy

So I need to head to the dunes or hope I drop dead early 70s. A cheerful life!

----------


## tomcat

> So I need to head to the dunes or hope I drop dead early 70s


...fortunately, those aren't your only options: consider prostitution...

----------


## beerlaodrinker

> ...Legal=USD60 _monthly_? why?...


Bribes for the BIB immigration etc?

----------


## Stumpy

> ...agree: though we have pieces of national health care (medicare, medicaid, Obamacare, etc)...insurance companies have done as good a job as gun manufacturers when it comes to propagating a wall of fear...


Yep. Americans are constantly bombarded with med commercials to instill fear of a new disease and amazingly the Pharmaceutical company just happens to have the med for it. 

Back to the OP, Excluding the unknowns, one can live a very comfortable life here for $2000 (~60k baht)  -  $2500 ( ~ 75k baht). Of course everyone's expectations will vary.

----------


## Mandaloopy

Let's say I retire at around 65. How long should I pencil in for being "alive"? This is fecking morbid, but something that obviously requires thought and planning. I rather like being alive, no major complaints.

----------


## bowie

> Let's say I retire at around 65. How long should I pencil in for being "alive"?


Twenty plus years

But, 'tis very simple really. Live within you means. No frivolous spending, put 10% of your salary away for your retirement.
As you "age" your earnings should increase, as soon as you can do so comfortably increase your retirement savings to 15%

At some point in time your ability to earn will end. Nobody knows when that'll be. So, start saving now. At that point in time you will be forced to live off of your accumulated savings.

Nobody knows what tomorrow will bring.

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018...etirement.aspx
In fact, a good 60% of workers are forced into early retirement, according to data from Voya Financial, and the reasons run the gamut from job loss to personal health issue.

----------


## bowie

> Back to the OP, Excluding the unknowns, one can live a very comfortable life here for $2000 (~60k baht) - $2500 ( ~ 75k baht). Of course everyone's expectations will vary.


Correct. Quite an adequate amount. Many folk live on less and some folk on much less. Some 'cause it suits them and many by necessity.

----------


## HuangLao

> ...I was able to retire because tax-free sand dollars were deposited into a tax-free (before withdrawals) retirement account: now, I edit PhD dissertations, master's theses and sundry other documents to pass the time...as well as contribute scintillating restaurant reviews to a local forum...



Scholarly and academic research and editing is where it's at, TC.
Comfortable wealth.

 :Smile:

----------


## bowie

> Bribes for the BIB immigration etc?


Never ran into that problem - when I have seen them "fishing" I tend to ignore. Then the job does get done. Maybe I'm lucky and maybe I'm no nonsense.

But, I have always been in compliance.

----------


## HuangLao

> Bribes for the BIB immigration etc?



Local and wise contacts.

----------


## bowie

Just a comment on "legalities" and Attorneys. Attorneys are consultants. They are highly trained specialists in a countries laws. They advise you of the specifics of a countries laws. They cannot change the laws. 

Every country has its own laws. I have assets in the USA and I have assets in Thailand. I have family in America and I have family in Thailand. Have licensed Attorneys in America and I have licensed Attorneys in Thailand. I have complete sets of legal documents in America and in Thailand (translated copies of all). My Thai Attorneys, my American Attorneys and my Brokerage Firm ALL have copies of ALL my legal documents (translated and original language) from both countries.

It cost a reasonable amount of money, and, time to provide the complete package. But, now it's done. When I, or any member of my family dies, the preparations have all been made, the instructions are legally recorded, in writing, and can only be changed "in writing". 

The peace of mind is there. I have done everything I can think of to prepare for the inevitable. Well worth the price.

----------


## HuangLao

Peace of mind.
Legally. 

Contradictory.

----------


## Topper

> Peace of mind.
> Legally. 
> 
> Contradictory.


Could you please FOJ?  Seriously, there's a time and place and I'm sure you've already impressed all of us with your deep insights.

----------


## Topper

> Peace of mind.
> Legally. 
> 
> Contradictory.


Could you please FOJ?  Seriously, there's a time and place and I'm sure you've already impressed all of us with your deep insights.   Why not try to post as yourself, rather than a Obs wanna be copy?

----------


## cyrille

I third that!

----------


## Storekeeper

> American 62yo Thai wife 57yo - Nonthaburi, own house in gated Moo Baan.
> 
> Retirement Budget: THB 90k/mo THB 1M/annum.


Retired to Thailand in 2007 and was spending roughly 75,000 baht a month up until the time we left in 2010. That figure included 14K a month truck payment and 14K a month mortgage. School for my step-daughter was around 60K a year just for tuition. Also had a step-son attending school at a much cheaper Thai school. We didnt get out and about too much. But we ate real good, could afford new clothes and ate out at least twice a week. Nothing fancy mind you. The local KISS restaurant was a treat ... 555! 

Targeting a return in June 2022 shortly after I turn 60. No responsibilities other than the wife and I. Planning to rent the first year while the house is renovated. Plenty of acceptable options in the 20K a month range. Kinda like the Chaiyapruek area of Jomtien.

After we get back into the house well be going with the Bowie Budget. But, IMHO as long as we have no rent or car payments ... 65K a month should be close to the figure we need to live the lifestyle we desire. Hoping to get into a bowling league once a week and an 8 ball league once a week. Might have to add another 5-10K for those activities.

Will not have private health insurance. Will keep about a million baht in reserve plus the same on a credit card for any major medical  expenses and get reimbursed at 80% from retired military health insurance.

----------


## Luigi

> Let's say I retire at around 65. How long should I pencil in for being "alive"? This is fecking morbid, but something that obviously requires thought and planning. I rather like being alive, no major complaints.


Aren't you in your 30's with a UK property?

Use it to get another.

In 30 years you should have 3 or 4.

----------


## naptownmike

All you guys living of investment returns what happens when the market takes a dump? Are they that low risk to get 5-10%

----------


## bowie

> Aren't you in your 30's with a UK property?
> 
> Use it to get another.
> 
> In 30 years you should have 3 or 4.


That's a workable plan. 3 or 4 rentals managed by a real estate firm should provide a significant revenue stream. "Made in the Shade" and "Livin' the Life".

----------


## bowie

> All you guys living of investment returns what happens when the market takes a dump?


Speaking from experience: Key is "LONG TERM" in the 2008 recession, my 401k balance's dropped for 16 straight long months. Then, the market turned, back to even in four short months.

Interesting concept few follow - when you are buying into the markets you want the markets at their lows, you get more shares per dollar. When you sell your shares (at retirement time) you want the market at their highs. You get more cash per share. 

When the markets crash - guess what - the number of shares you have purchased remains the same. The value of those shares only matters when you must sell them for cash to live on.

----------


## Storekeeper

> Aren't you in your 30's with a UK property?
> 
> Use it to get another.
> 
> In 30 years you should have 3 or 4.


12 years after leaving Thailand will return having added another pension worth somewhere around $1000 a month. On top of that will be 12 years into a 401K type plan called TSP. Not a clue how much is now in it. Gotta be worth a couple hundred bucks a month at least if turned into an annuity.

12 years later my condo is now almost paid off. Easily rentable for $1500 a month. Wont do it though. It was always be Plan B standing at the ready. But, another expense I had last time living in Thailand that will be gone.

Youre right ... A lot can be or could be accomplished in 30 years.

----------


## bowie

Mandaloopy -

Lots of advice and examples provided. Form your game plan and implement it. You'll be fine. Do follow through. In my case the "initial" implementation was a bit of a trial and I did do some "second-guessing" thankfully I stuck it out. You'll get that "feel good - way to go" feeling as the nest eggs begins to accumulate. 

The sooner you start, the better off you'll be. 

Congratulations for planning... implement.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Aren't you in your 30's with a UK property?
> 
> Use it to get another.
> 
> In 30 years you should have 3 or 4.


I just got a quote to redo the floors in my rental property in NZ*...

Fuck, don't do it!  :Very Happy: 























*There you go Smeg & Co., add that to the files.  :Wave:

----------


## tomcat

> Interesting concept few follow - when you are buying into the markets you want the markets at their lows, you get more shares per dollar. When you sell your shares (at retirement time) you want the market at their highs


...generally shortened to "buy low, sell high...

----------


## happynz

I have two choices -- work until I cark it or retire and live in penury until I fade away. 

note to self -- way to go dumbass.

----------


## David48atTD

> All you guys living of investment returns what happens when the market takes a dump? Are they that low risk to get 5-10%



The "market takes a dump" usually refers to the value of the capital asset dropping, not the rent/stock dividend reducing.

The rents/dividends usually don't change much.  It only really matters when you sell and asset to fund your living expenses.


What does change and greatly effects your retirement is the exchange rate

----------


## Storekeeper

> ...generally shortened to "buy low, sell high...


Reminds me of a term I used to care about as a small time investor ... dollar cost averaging.

----------


## tomcat

> Reminds me of a term I used to care about as a small time investor ... dollar cost averaging


...yep, along with the old investing saw: buy the dips...

----------


## docmartin

> I have two choices -- work until I cark it or retire and live in penury until I fade away. 
> 
> note to self -- way to go dumbass.


Me too. Had way too much fun as a young man and didn't care about money. Either had it or I didn't.
Now I'm 60 and working way too much eg. up at 0330 on Wednesday, fly 2 hours, work, fly 2 hours, back to bed at 2200.
Slept in four beds last week. One of them was mine.

----------


## naptownmike

I guess what I meant is:

Say you have $700,000 in a fund and your living off the 5-10% interest as someone mentioned above.

 Giving you $30-35k per year to live on then the market tanks and your $700,000 is now $250,000.

 Or is there something safer that still can yield that type of return with less risk I would have to think something giving a 10% return must carry a bit of risk.

I would rather have the bulk of my funds in something super safe and just run down the principal over the years.

Teach me something.

----------


## headhunter

> That's a workable plan. 3 or 4 rentals managed by a real estate firm should provide a significant revenue stream. "Made in the Shade" and "Livin' the Life".


make sure you check out the letting agents first,we paid ours 10% of the rental and they  couldn't collect the rent,not only the rent but the tenants done a lot of damage costing us 60 thousand pounds.

----------


## tomcat

> Teach me something.


...what is your time horizon? Stock markets generally recover over time...



> I would have to think something giving a 10% return must carry a bit of risk.


...more than a bit in this day and age: look into investment-grade bond funds (corporates rather than government) that offer 2.5-4% return...



> I would rather have the bulk of my funds in something super safe and just run down the principal over the years.


...look into low-fee retirement annuities that guarantee income for life...the amount of income may change depending on investments, but the check will always be in the mail...

----------


## bowie

> make sure you check out the letting agents first


100% you must do your due diligence - or you will get a bad egg and lose. 

Being a landlord is "work". Downright difficult work, lots of legal shit, lots of validating tenants (life changes) a job loss can turn a "gold" tenant to a non-paying deficit - legal cost involved in "kicking 'em out".

You need legal representation and formal contracts defining rights and responsibilities. It is not a simple matter of counting the rent as it comes in. 

Absentee landlord can't just run over and unclog a toilet, fix a roof leak, etc. 

A whole lot involved in being a landlord - it is a Business.

----------


## bowie

> Teach me something.


See Tomcats post.

For myself, I played the market many moon ago - fun, but, far too much work. Win some, lose some, never made much, taxation etc. pretty much broke even. If I add in the hours I spent doing due diligence I was working for pennies.

So damn much involved, thousands if not tens of thousands of investment vehicles and definitely one size does not fit all. To win you need expert professional advice. 

I turned my investments over to a large USA based brokerage firm. We selected them to manage our companies 401k plan. So, in appreciation they waived my "application" fee (I think it was a 5% buy in), defining me as an existing customer when I transferred my mutual funds into their firm.

I'm in great shape after investing/contributing 10% of my salary into tax deferred retirement accounts, as my earnings increased and I could afford it I went to 15%. Mad money I made doing consulting work I invested into Roth accounts controlled by the same brokerage firm.

Anyway - Start Contributing 10% of your salary into a tax deferred or tax exempt investment vehicle.   

You should, for peace of mind - pay a financial advisor (one time fee) for guidance. Do do your "due diligence" but start setting aside you money now.

The sooner you start - the sooner you'll be able to retire. Good luck.

----------


## bowie

> Say you have $700,000 in a fund and your living off the 5-10% interest as someone mentioned above.
> 
> Giving you $30-35k per year to live on then the market tanks and your $700,000 is now $250,000.


At the risk of repeating myself. Or rambling in non-understandable manner.

When you invest money you are buying "shares". 
When you value your portfolio you are assigning a dollar value to your shares. 
When dividends are paid to you the cash is used to purchase additional shares (typically).

Point I'm trying to make is you're dealing with "shares" not money. 
When markets tank - your number of shares remains the same.
The only time you need to assign an actual dollar value is when you actually sell your shares for cash. 
How much cash you need determines how many of your accumulated shares you must sell.

In my case, I'm selling @ one half percent of my shares each month. But, my portfolio is earning approximately the same amount. Right now, past year or so, my portfolio's value (number of shares) has not decreased.

----------


## tomcat

> Or rambling in non-understandable manner.





> When you invest money you are buying "shares".


...*cough*...not true for all asset classes, i.e., physical gold (or other commodities), cash in deposit accounts, etc...



> When dividends are paid to you the cash is used to purchase additional shares (typically).


...in a total return fund, yes...but in many other types of funds or even individual company stock returns, dividends are used as income for many...

----------


## bowie

> Moo Baan Fee $50 is steep for Nonthaburi


Large property - fee based on size.

----------


## David48atTD

> Teach me something.


Diverisify into some local shares.  Gives some currency hedging and the dividends are healthy.

https://teakdoor.com/business-finance...ml#post3949567 (Thai Stocks / Shares and the SET general news)

^ Bank of Lao but traded on the SET, Stock Exchange of Thailand

---

Some Thailand infrastructure Stocks, from my StockBroker ... 




> If you would like Infrastructure Funds, I recommend TFFIF which name is THAILAND FUTURE FUND. 
> 
> They  invest in the right to receive 45% of the Net Toll Revenue  collected  from the existing routes of the Chalong Rat and Burapha Withi   Expressways for a 30-year period from October 29, 2018  (the Transfer  Revenue date in accordance with the Revenue Transfer  Agreement). 
> 
> The dividend yield is about 5% per year.

----------


## Stumpy

> I played the market many moon ago - fun, but, far too much work. Win some, lose some,


Same me, Back in the big Tech run 1998 thru 2002ish. Did pretty darn well. Of course capital gains tax was a killer being I was day trading for fun while I had my full time reg job. 

I rolled my 401K into a personal IRA and kept it moderate until Trump seemed like the winner for Pres. Left some money on the table with that move but now my IRA sits in full cash position. No risk. I am still making a nice interest clip and I have no need to touch it at this juncture. Beauty right now is I am working and bank 85% - 90% of my net pay as I have virtually no financial liabilities. Crazy sometimes as I never in my working career in the US was able to enjoy that.  I was lucky to net 15% - 20% and somebody always had their damn hand in my pocket. Of course I was putting max into my 401K for years.  Here now,  Its like Lottery winning every 2 weeks.

That said though, when I setup my financial plan with my wife it was always to be a pensioner here at some point that way all my other investments and cash positions were complete upside.  I knew as I got older my needs will drop and thus the spending reduces. My crazy hobby shit will begin to subside in the coming years but for now....NO WAY, I spend it like I stole it.   :Smile:

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## bowie

> I spend it like I stole it.


Game well played.

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## terry57

If ya have worked a real job for 40 fookin yearz like me good self the budget is open. Try that fookers. Innit

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## fishlocker

I'm going to visit my father tomorrow, he's 98. Then monday it's off to my uncle and aunty who lives on big Muskego Lake. My brother one sister and a few cousins will be there. This brings to mind the "how long will you live" quotient in the equation. 

Man I hope I don't fall off a jet ski, my ribs still hurt from my last stupid stunt.

How long is a piece of string?

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## fishlocker

Yo, Terry. I'm up 340+ ytd. I may just buy me a trailer yet and fook off to the great white north. Just kidding but I am saving up cause I'm gonna need a bigger boat.

fish.

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## Jack meoff

Your dad is 98?

All the best to him fish.

I thought you were a tiddler.

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## fishlocker

No I'm a fishlocker. We got it like that. He doesn't know where the hell he is but he is still alive. I figure I'm about half dead then. I was the youngest of the family. A bit of a black sheep too as I don't think he was too happy with my choice of partner. 
He did teach me how to work at a young age and I'll credit him with not only why I'm a workaholic but a part time alcoholic. When I'm not working that is. Hell by the time I was fouteen I figured I could do about anything. ..and I have. Well, still haven't jumped out of an airplane but it's on the list.

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## David48atTD

> How long is a piece of string?



Twice, half it's length  :Smile: 


My Physics Teacher didn't like that answer and invited me to spend the remainder of the class outside on the verandah.

I spent a lot of time on various verandahs in High School.

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## Jack meoff

You posh cnut, we got thrashed with the belt for farting.

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## Jack meoff

> I spent a lot of time on various verandahs in High School.


Ahh right, I see how you missed the educational bit :Smile:

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## Headworx

> You posh cnut, we got thrashed with the belt for farting.


Looks-you-ree.

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## cyrille

> Twice, half it's length 
> 
> 
> My Physics Teacher didn't like that answer


Also an English teacher, by any chance?

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## Norton

Bought a bit of gold and a few mining stocks. With all the nonsense going on with many of the EU nations central banks figure gold and mining stocks going to take off.

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## docmartin

The only downside to gold is in a liquidity crunch - when folks need cash they sell stuff. Including gold.

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## Switch

You need to factor in th cost, and inconvenience of your visa, if you are planning to retire in Thailand. Fuckers seem intent on increasing the inconvenience factor for long stay visas.

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## Norton

> You need to factor in th cost, and inconvenience of your visa, if you are planning to retire in Thailand. Fuckers seem intent on increasing the inconvenience factor for long stay visas.


Yes. If you reside in Bangkok, suggest using an agent. Around 9k baht a year to do 90 day and annual extension to stay. Well worth the money to avoid the Chang Wattana immigration office hassle and time.

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## tomcat

...^I've thought about using an agent, but I don't want my passport in the hands of folks I don't know and barely trust: all it takes is one oops! and passport missing...so sorry...we pay B500 for you...

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## TizMe

I played around with picking stocks for a while with some success.
Meanwhile, I also subscribed to an investment adviser rivkin.com.au

Comparing my own profits to those following Rivkin's advice, I decided that its worth the cost of membership (AUD2,000 for 3 years) as the average profit far outweighed that when I followed their advice.

I follow 3 of their strategies. 3 times per month, I'll get emails and sms messages reminding me to check the latest buy/sells.

They also produce a daily email and a weekly video answering any questions that members send to them. 

Last year wasn't so great, down 20.5% for the full year, but this year as of today I'm up 63.5% so far.

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## bowie

Risk versus reward -
Reward: (for a fee) someone else deals with the frustration of Thai Immigration. 
Risk: 


> oops! and passport missing


 You pay the price of recovering from someone else's  "oops"

Did anyone on this forum get screwed, or no of someone getting screwed by n "agent"?
What happened, and what was the resolution?

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## bowie

> Last year wasn't so great, down 20.5% for the full year, but this year as of today I'm up 63.5% so far.


Swings like that - not for the faint of heart, "mad money" only.

When I played, many, many moon ago, long before the days of "discount" brokers, you had to sign up with a full service broker, pay anywhere from about $50 to $300 per trade, and go through a verification/validation process, which required a declarations page with each and every order (trade).

Now, I got a couple of "good" tips from her on stock trades, never made much though due to taxes and trade fees. Irritating in that she was constantly fishing, asking me about my business, businesses customers and their businesses customers. Granted, that was her job and that's where the "good" tips came from, but, irritating none the less.

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## David48atTD

> I also subscribed to an investment adviser rivkin.com.au
> 
> Last year wasn't so great, down 20.5% for the full year, but this year as of today I'm up 63.5% so far.


Good luck with that.

All I want them to do is to create a fund which they manage according to their own advice, track it's performance and, if over the decade it outperforms the Market ... happy to pay a premium for that.

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## TizMe

> Good luck with that.
> 
> All I want them to do is to create a fund which they manage according to their own advice, track it's performance and, if over the decade it outperforms the Market ... happy to pay a premium for that.


https://www.rivkin.com.au/solutions/managed-accounts/

This is only a fairly new offering, I've been thinking about joining.

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## David48atTD

> Teach me something.


In a world of disappearing income, these stable (US) stocks pay a high dividend yield

Key Points

These  stocks give investors a higher yield than the overall market and the  yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury, thanks to their high and  growing dividends and low credit risk.CNBC used S&P Capital  IQ to screen the stocks with a dividend yield above 2%, a Standard  & Poor’s credit rating of  “A” or higher and 10% or more annual  dividend growth over the past five years. 


CNBC article ... https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/04/in-a...end-yield.html

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## TizMe

Aussie stock market tends to pay much higher dividends than US.

Its due to the franking credits offered by ASX stocks.

Example dividend yields from large cap Aussies:
Company    Stock Ticker    Dividend Yield (%)
National Australia Bank    (NAB)    8.10%
Stockland    (SGP)    7.00%
Wesfarmers    (WES)    6.40%
Westpac    (WBC)    7.30%
Vicinity Centres    (VCX)    6.40%
AGL Energy    (AGL)    5.40%
Aurizon Holdings    (AZJ)    5.40%
Scentre Group    (SCG)    5.70%
Suncorp    (SUN)    5.00%
Commonwealth Bank of Australia    (CBA)    6.10%

If you are an Aussie tax payer, its even better because you get a tax reduction from the franking credits.

As an Aussie expat, I miss out on the franking credits, but also I don't have to pay any tax on the dividends paid to me.

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