#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > Speakers Corner >  >  Kyle Rittenhouse. Murder or self defense ?

## Backspin

Everyone probably heard noises about the 17 year old American kid who shot and killed somebody in the middle of one of the riots. He killed 2 people. One of them was lunging at him to try and take his gun. That one is an easy self defense. Edit: The first guy was also trying to take his gun. So this is self defense too.

 Its actually a dramatic story. 



This video explains the whole case. 




IMO the kid was playing a very very dangerous game. But he isn't guilty  of murder though. Not in the USA sense. You know.. guns, fuck yeah.

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## Backspin

This is why I don't own guns. If you own a gun, you could find yourself in this kids shoes. Tied up in prison with a couple murder charges around your neck.

I am not a gun-tard. This kid is still an idiot for going to the riots to be the hero. And bringing a gun. And Seppos are all idiots. But according to Seppo rules, this kid is not guilty of murder. 

Here's my guess for the case. They will settle on manslaughter or something to that effect.

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## tomcat

...edit...

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## tomcat

> This kid is still an idiot for going to the riots to be the hero. And bringing a gun


a) ...it's what he was raised to do: trailer park parenting...




> And Seppos are all idiots.


b)...(another) unfortunate generalization...possibly because you're more ignorant than your posts suggest...




> But according to Seppo rules, this kid is not guilty of murder.


c)...see b) above...




> They will settle on manslaughter or something to that effect.


d)...as long as he's put away until maturity and common sense set in...say, 15 years or so...

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## Backspin

> a) ..
> 
> d)...as long as he's put away until maturity and common sense set in...say, 15 years or so...


For shooting people that were physically fighting him for control of his gun ? 

It wasn't illegal for him to own or posses the weapon. Breaking common sense is not a crime.

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## tomcat

> It wasn't illegal for him to own or posses the weapon


...irrelevant: he's a murderer...he and his parents should be jailed...and generous restitution paid to their victims...after graduating from his for-profit correctional location, this odious miscreant should be welcomed into the world of fast-food service...

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## deeks

> ...irrelevant: he's a murderer...he and his parents should be jailed...and generous restitution paid to their victims...after graduating from his for-profit correctional location, this odious miscreant should be welcomed into the world of fast-food service...


Tell me when time or place makes it unlawful to defend yourself,?
Say an illegal immigrant crossing the border? comes across 2 white guys that try to chase her down? she hears a gun shot then turns and shoots? killing one? she runs off then is tackled by another guy, a farmer, she shoots, then another farmer holds his hands up, she doesnt shoot, then another guy pulls a gun on her and she shoots him.
in your eyes she is a cold blooded murderer? yes?

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## Backspin

> ...irrelevant: he's a murderer...he and his parents should be jailed...and generous restitution paid to their victims...after graduating from his for-profit correctional location, this odious miscreant should be welcomed into the world of fast-food service...


Did you actually watch the fucking video ? The guy would have been killed with his own gun if he didn't shoot the people that were physically attacking him in close range.

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## AntRobertson

There's precisely zero point in trying to engage in debate over this case with the socal's and deeks of this world.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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## aging one

No gun nobody dead.  Fuck him.

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## Backspin

> There's precisely zero point in trying to engage in debate over this case with the socal's and deeks of this world.
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Watch the video. 

Are you saying it's murder ? I don't have an ideological dog in this fight.

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## baldrick

> Did you actually watch the fucking video ?


no - fcuking - way

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## Backspin

> No gun nobody dead.  Fuck him.


He was shot at before the first shot. And a glock was pulled on him in the second shot

There were guns everywhere

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## AntRobertson

> There's precisely zero point in trying to engage in debate over this case with the socal's and deeks of this world.
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯





> Watch the video.


_Q.E.D._

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## Backspin

> no - fcuking - way


Then don't comment. There is a CNN version if that's what you like

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## deeks

> ...irrelevant: he's a murderer...he and his parents should be jailed...and generous restitution paid to their victims...after graduating from his for-profit correctional location, this odious miscreant should be welcomed into the world of fast-food service...



You are a fucking numbnut. Regardless of him legally able to possess the weapon is beside the fact that he was defending himself. If he was in possession of a fucking samurai sword and took their heads off, he was defending himself, if he was a black belt martial artist and killed them with his bare hands, he was defending himself. IVE JUST GOT TO SAY,  if i was a women and you are my husband/boyfriend and you won't kill to protect yourself or me from being killed than you are bottom of the barrel.

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## Backspin

> No gun nobody dead.  Fuck him.


First shot wasn't even his.

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## Backspin

> _Q.E.D._


Lame AF

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## deeks

> There's precisely zero point in trying to engage in debate over this case with the socal's and deeks of this world.
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I reckon you would be the first one to run away if ya mates got in a bar fight too, just judging by ya comments.

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## tomcat

> if i was a women and you are my husband/boyfriend


...I'd need to see a pic, of course...




> you are bottom


...*sigh*...

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## Backspin

> ...I'd need to see a pic, of course...
> 
> ...*sigh*...


I'm actually amazed at the juvenile answers some of you are giving.

Nothing about how 2 people got shot trying to wrestle a firearm out of the hands of someone. 

Don't bring a gun ? (it's the USA)How about don't try and wrestle guns out of the hands of people. You might get fucking shot

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## deeks

> ...I'd need to see a pic, of course...
> 
> ...*sigh*...


You do have an obsession with pics don't ya? A bit of advise for ya would be not keep stuff of any explicit nature in Thailand.

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## deeks

> I'm actually amazed at the juvenile answers some of you are giving.
> 
> Nothing about how 2 people got shot trying to wrestle a firearm out of the hands of someone. 
> 
> Don't bring a gun ? (it's the USA)How about don't try and wrestle guns out of the hands of people. You might get fucking shot


2 people got killed, 1 was disarmed (pun intended) because he was the guy that pulled the handgun on him. All i can say is that the kid had exceptional trigger control, he only shot people that attacked him or went for his weapon, its clear to see that another guy aproaches him, he points the rifle, the guy puts his hands up and backs off and then Kyle lowers the weapon,  I think these videos will be used in law enforcement training in the future as to show how to control a weapon when under an assault.

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## Backspin

> 2 people got killed, 1 was disarmed (pun intended) because he was the guy that pulled the handgun on him. All i can say is that the kid had exceptional trigger control, he only shot people that attacked him or went for his weapon, its clear to see that another guy aproaches him, he points the rifle, the guy puts his hands up and backs off and then Kyle lowers the weapon,  I think these videos will be used in law enforcement training in the future as to show how to control a weapon when under an assault.


Yeah. Even I was a bit skeptical before seeing the footage. I just assumed some bullets went astray and someone got killed.

But he actually just sniped the ppl who were trying to take his weapon.

Either way though , it's gonna be one hell of a trial.

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## baldrick

> Then don't comment


Get fcuked

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## lom

Jonny got it right

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## nidhogg

> It wasn't illegal for him to own or posses the weapon. .


Be very clear on this:  it WAS illegal for him to possess that gun.  It was an assault rifle that he was too young to possess.

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## Storekeeper

> Watch the video. 
> 
> Are you saying it's murder ? I don't have an ideological dog in this fight.


Under age kid gets driven to a protest far away from his home. Not even legally old enough to have a gun. Didnt he cross state lines to go on this hunt? And then shoots an unarmed guy armed with a skateboard. 

I hope they try the kid as an adult and give him the death penalty.

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## raycarey

he crossed state lines with two assault rifles that he wasn't legally allowed to have in his possession....and then he killed two people.

lock him up and throw away the key.

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## bsnub

> he crossed state lines with two assault rifles that he wasn't legally allowed to have in his possession....and then he killed two people.


That in and of itself is a federal crime.

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## Backspin

> Under age kid gets driven to a protest far away from his home. Not even legally old enough to have a gun. Didn’t he cross state lines to go on this hunt? And then shoots an unarmed guy armed with a skateboard. 
> 
> I hope they try the kid as an adult and give him the death penalty.


He was asked to protect businesses from riots. He cleaned graffiti off walls by day and was supposed to guard businesses at night, It was some thing is family set up

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## Backspin

> Be very clear on this:  it WAS illegal for him to possess that gun.  It was an assault rifle that he was too young to possess.


Per news coverage , that's a misdemeanor.

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## raycarey

> That in and of itself is a federal crime.


if elected, biden's AG should make sure he's indicted on federal charges.

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## Backspin

> That in and of itself is a federal crime.


Misdemeanor - Kids lawyer said

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## Backspin

> if elected, biden's AG should make sure he's indicted on federal charges.


You mad bro ? Just because some neo Jacobin soldiers fell ?
 ::doglol::

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## raycarey

> Misdemeanor - Kids lawyer said


oh, ok.  if his lawyer said so.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

and let's stop with this "kid" bullshit.

and regarding federal guns laws...




> Federal law does not restrict individuals from transporting legally acquired firearms across state lines for lawful purposes


the assault rifles were not legally acquired.

enjoy prison, dickhead.

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## AntRobertson

This thread... 

One emotionally stunted and immature kid high on Trump's hate and playing Rambo kills a couple of people, another one uses it for some attention whoring.

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## Backspin

> This thread... 
> 
> One emotionally stunted and immature kid high on Trump's hate and playing Rambo kills a couple of people, another one uses it for some attention whoring.


That's pretty weak considering this could be the trial of the century coming up

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## raycarey

> this could be the trial of the century




get a grip, sport.

8chan or whatever fucked up offshoot you're reading isn't reality.

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## bsnub

> 8chan or whatever fucked up offshoot you're reading isn't reality.


To bad so many wackjobs do take it for reality.

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## harrybarracuda

> 8chan or whatever fucked up offshoot you're reading isn't reality.


He can't read, he just looks at the pictures.

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## Headworx

Watching that video, you'd normally expect to be hearing screams of _allahu akbar!_ in the background to witness such insanity by brain-deads with guns.

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## tomcat

> He was asked to protect businesses from riots.


...who asked this underaged testosterone-drugged tomb raider to do police work?  



> It was some thing is family set up


...to repeat, prosecute and jail those who led the young thug astray...as a warning to other tRumpified procreators...

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## Pragmatic

.... ffffff

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## Storekeeper

> He was asked to protect businesses from riots. He cleaned graffiti off walls by day and was supposed to guard businesses at night, It was some thing is family set up


So basically whoever “asked” a juvenile to “protect” their businesses should also be charged ... with something. 

Kid’s parents give him permission to go shoot “libtards” but would probably recoil at the thought of signing a waiver for the kid to join the Army and go shoot “rag-heads” in the Middle East ... much easier to hunt liberals armed with skate boards and pink pussy hats.

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## tomcat

> pink pussy hats.


...*cough*...a bit passe (pronounced pass-say)...

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## Backspin

> get a grip, sport.
> 
> 8chan or whatever fucked up offshoot you're reading isn't reality.


I am not a gun nut, Magatard or anything like that. I'm not even a hyper partisan like I was 10 years ago

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## Backspin

> This thread... 
> 
> One emotionally stunted and immature kid high on Trump's hate and playing Rambo kills a couple of people, another one uses it for some attention whoring.


QED, QED.

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## tomcat

> QED


...it is sometimes relevant that you understand what you post...

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## aging one

> ...it is sometimes relevant that you understand what you post...


There was a very good reason Socal, Backspin, Skidmark, Dipshit was banned. We are seeing that each and everyday.

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## tomcat

...voila! The egg sack that begot the miscreant:

*Mother of alleged Kenosha shooter gets standing ovation at GOP event*

Josh Marcus
Sat, September 26, 2020, 4:09 AM GMT+7


Police Shooting Wisconsin Rittenhouse (ASSOCIATED PRESS)

The mother of Kyle Rittenhouse, an Illinois teenager charged with fatally shooting two people and injuring a third in August during Black Lives Matter protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin, received a standing ovation at a Wisconsin GOP event on Thursday.

Rittenhouse, 17, is being charged as an adult for six counts, including two of first degree murder, for allegedly shooting Anthony Huber and Joseph Rosenbaum with a semi-automatic, military-style rifle. He has become a cause célèbre among conservatives, and has attracted millions to his legal defence as he fights extradition to Wisconsin.

Michelle Malkin, an alt-right figure and political commentator who invited Rittenhouse’s mother and lawyer to the event Republican Women of Waukesha County event, is associated with a variety of white supremacist figures and ideas, according to the Anti-Defamation League. She has defended Japanese internment and post-9/11 racial profiling of Muslims, the ADL says, and has called Black Lives Matter a terrorist organization and mocked when its supporters got hit by cars.

Days of demonstrations occurred in Kenosha in late August after video showed police shooting Jacob Blake, who is Black, seven times in the back on August 23 while his children were reportedly in the car. He is now paralysed.

Blake was facing a July arrest warrant for sexual assault, trespassing, and disorderly conduct at the time of the incident, when the woman whose complaint prompted the charges called 911 to alert police to Blake’s presence at her home. The Department of Justice is investigating the incident.
On August 25, Rittenhouse travelled to Kenosha from his home in Antioch, Illinois, with the rifle, which he was too young to legally carry, and joined the scores of armed conservative vigilantes converging around businesses at the protests.

Videos from the night of the shootings shows Rittenhouse at various points. In one instance, 15 minutes before the shooting, police drive by and offer Rittenhouse and others water out of appreciation. Patchy footage of the shooting incident shows Rittenhouse being pursued by a group attempting to seize his rifle, beginning to shoot, and then police initially ignoring him as he walks toward them with his hands up.

Counter-demonstrators armed with military weapons and body armor are becoming an increasingly common sight across the country at Black Lives Matter protests.

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## panama hat

> ...it is sometimes relevant that you understand what you post...


That doesn't apply to Skidmark/socal/etc... as with him it isn't even 'sometimes'. 




> There was a very good reason Socal, Backspin, Skidmark, Dipshit was banned. We are seeing that each and everyday.


Every day . . .

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## Backspin

^ Which is why I said this will be the trail of the century. 

It's both political groups pitted against each other. Magatards vs neo Jacobins

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## tomcat

> Which is why I said this will be the trail of the century.


...sounds like a rocky road...

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## baldrick

it has led to this

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## AntRobertson

Tamir Rice was killed at 12 years old for having a toy gun while black. Kyle Rittenhouse killed two people at 17 years old and walked right by police who had earlier thanked him and given him water then went home.

Seventeen year old Trayvon Martin's family was vilified after he was killed going to the shops. Rtitenhouse's mom gets a standing ovation.

James Holmes shoots and kills 12 people and is arrested. Eric Garner is choked to death during arrest over cigarettes.

Dylann Roof murdered nine church-goers and was arrested without incident. George Floyd wass killed over arrest on suspicion of passing a counterfeit $20 bill.

...

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## tomcat

^...alt-right conclusion: trailer park folks have their work cut out for them...

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## deeks

> unarmed guy armed with a skateboard


That's a doozy.

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## deeks

Here is a point of view, from a person who's politics are 100% opposite to mine. It's a long video but i feel the more we see the more we know.

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## Backspin

> Tamir Rice was killed at 12 years old for having a toy gun while black. Kyle Rittenhouse killed two people at 17 years old and walked right by police who had earlier thanked him and given him water then went home.
> 
> Seventeen year old Trayvon Martin's family was vilified after he was killed going to the shops. Rtitenhouse's mom gets a standing ovation.
> 
> James Holmes shoots and kills 12 people and is arrested. Eric Garner is choked to death during arrest over cigarettes.
> 
> Dylann Roof murdered nine church-goers and was arrested without incident. George Floyd wass killed over arrest on suspicion of passing a counterfeit $20 bill.
> 
> ...


This is pure hyper partisan drivel

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## panama hat

> This is pure hyper partisan drivel


How so?  How does it not compare?

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## bsnub

> This is pure hyper partisan drivel


The truth hurts eh? Try to debunk it then. We will be waiting you alt reich douche.

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## Troy

The big question will be why the kid was there and whether the rifle he carried was to intimidate or provoke others. If it was then self defence if off the menu.

How any civilised country can allow civilians on the street with  guns is beyond me. It's asking for escalation and killings....

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## Backspin

> The truth hurts eh? Try to debunk it then. We will be waiting you alt reich douche.



It is debunked at 43:00 into this video. Kyle Rittenhouse goes off on his own and gets surrounded by 3 ppl and attacked. I am not alt right. I am a monarchist. I think both sides are retards.

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## deeks

Mob rule won't work with this one, Kyle will be absolved of the charges and then he will work for the police as a trainer.(maybe in a different state). he might even get a payout like Nick Sandman. The kid was so controlled in what he shot. Post #59 has 1/2 hour more information on the whole circumstance. 
I can see the heads exploding in the future when he walks, then when he sues about being called a white supremacist.

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## deeks

And just to put the boot in at least he took out some pieces of shit, like a f'ing child molester, and a women beater.

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## Backspin

> The truth hurts eh? Try to debunk it then. We will be waiting you alt reich douche.



This was the moment where Kyle Rittenhouse came into the area where Rosenbaum was. They noticed he was by himself so they jumped him. Kyle is just starting to run away as he realizes that they are going for him. Rosenbam has a bag with a chain in it, in his hand.

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## panama hat

> It is debunked at 43:00 into this video.


Except it isn't




> And just to put the boot in at least he took out some pieces of shit, like a f'ing child molester, and a women beater.


Yet you're still alive . . . where's the justice?

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## deeks

^ :kma:

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## panama hat

Try again

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## deeks

DOWNLOAD it now, that video will be gone as soon as goooogle see it.
Anyone want to see the raw v---- of the nutter in auckland nz, People on the net where saying it was fake< nope it was sad.

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## deeks

> Try again



My first car????   LOL   A chrysler 300c.

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## panama hat

> DOWNLOAD it now, that video will be gone as soon as goooogle see it.
> Anyone want to see the raw v---- of the nutter in auckland nz, People on the net where saying it was fake< nope it was sad.


You're losing it . . . wannabe-Aussie

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## Backspin

> Except it isn't


If you are being jumped, you are permitted to defend yourself

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## panama hat

> If


Watch the video

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## Backspin

> Watch the video


This video is a debauched fucking joke. Give some time stamps of the relevant parts if you are gonna post such poorly edited shit.

We know that Rittenhouse killed someone. The only question is whether it was self defense.

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## tomcat

> The only question is whether it was self defense.


...hardly the only question...

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## Backspin

> ...hardly the only question...



Totally the question. The only question.

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## deeks

Here ya go I think this is the video that PH was trying to post, its a raw version without all the windows desktop screen and first car chat.

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## tomcat

> Totally the question. The only question.


...here are examples of other questions: 

a) how did he come to have war armaments in his possession?
b) Who encouraged him to cross state lines with such armaments?
c) Why did he think his presence with such armaments was necessary?
d) What hidden source told him his dick size was equivalent to a weapon of war?

...and these are just a few questions to set the stage for, I hope, a court to find this murderous toad guilty of unlawful death...his parents will be up next as accessories before, during and after the fact...

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## panama hat

> The only question is whether it was self defense.







> ...here are examples of other questions:
> 
> a) how did he come to have war armaments in his possession?
> b) Who encouraged him to cross state lines with such armaments?
> c) Why did he think his presence with such armaments was necessary?
> d) What hidden source told him his dick size was equivalent to a weapon of war?
> 
> ...and these are just a few questions to set the stage for, I hope, a court to find this murderous toad guilty of unlawful death...his parents will be up next as accessories before, during and after the fact...


Precisely

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## AntRobertson

> The only question is whether it was self defense.


He was in a place he wasn't supposed to be with a weapon he wasn't supposed to possess ≠ self defense.

So he's even more fucked than you after you've paid ladyboys to gang-bang rail you.

 :Smile:

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## panama hat

> He was in a place he wasn't supposed to be with a weapon he wasn't supposed to possess ≠ self defense.


'Intent' will come into this as well and screw him up even worse.

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## Backspin

> He was in a place he wasn't supposed to be with a weapon he wasn't supposed to possess ≠ self defense.
> 
> So he's even more fucked than you after you've paid ladyboys to gang-bang rail you.


. If this was Canada or Australia , that would be a fair point. But this isn't Canada or Australia clearly.

His weapons misdemeanors are not going to supersede self defense. 

He's going to beat the rap. Easily.

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## AntRobertson

> He's going to beat the rap. Easily.


You've been convicted of gross stupidity in a public place.

It'll go on your permanent record.

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## Backspin

[QUOTE=panama hat;4165948]'Intent' will come into this as well and screw him up even worse.[/QUOTE
His intention was to defend himself 

 :rofl:  There was guns everywhere. There was 5 other shots by ppl unaccounted for. This isn't fucking Canada

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## AntRobertson

> His intention was to defend himself


_“Nobody drives to a city with guns because they love someone else’s business that much. 

That’s some bullshit. No one thinks, ‘it’s my solemn duty to pick up a rifle and protect T.J. Maxx.’ They do it because they’re hoping to shoot someone”_

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## panama hat

> There was guns everywhere. There was 5 other shots by ppl unaccounted for. This isn't fucking Canada


You're too dense to deserve having it explained to you a third or fourth time

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## Backspin

> You've been convicted of gross stupidity in a public place.
> 
> It'll go on your permanent record.


This is a gun mad state of the USA and you think some smiling air cadet who happened to play the trigger by the book is gonna go away for murder ?

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## AntRobertson

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> You've been convicted of gross stupidity in a public place.
> 
> It'll go on your permanent record.
> 
> 
> This is a gun mad state of the USA and you think some smiling air cadet who happened to play the trigger by the book is gonna go away for murder ?


Doubling-down on your crimes now makes you a recidivist offender. 

You need to be jailed for life, no chance of parole, for the good of society... And yourself so you stop eating glue.

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## Backspin

> _“Nobody drives to a city with guns because they love someone else’s business that much. 
> 
> That’s some bullshit. No one thinks, ‘it’s my solemn duty to pick up a rifle and protect T.J. Maxx.’ They do it because they’re hoping to shoot someone”_


It's America. The whole country is giddy that they have an excuse to use their guns and point them at each other. 

The whole street was armed up.

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## AntRobertson

> It's America.


A unique yet ultimately flawed and pointless defense to your charges of gross idiocy in public.

Guilty.

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## panama hat

By a jury of his peers, m'Lud

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## tomcat

> By a jury of his peers, m'Lud


...thank you...now kindly return his peers to their special ed class...

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## cyrille

> That's pretty weak considering this could be the trial of the century coming up


 :Very Happy: 

Gotta be a piss take, surely?

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## Backspin

For the record , Rittenhouse lived 15 miles from where the incident took place. Across a state line yes , but still in his back yard. In the media they keep playing it up like he drove 3 hours by car to get there.

2 of the 3 neo Jacobins that got shot , were out of state too. And one of them had a gun as well. So that's a wash

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## Backspin

> Gotta be a piss take, surely?


Yeah you're right. There isn't much of a trial here. He's going to get off on self defense.

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## raycarey

> So that's a wash


i forgot for a moment how incredibly stupid you are.

won't happen again.

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## tomcat

> 2 of the 3 neo Jacobins that got shot , were out of state too. And one of them had a gun as well.


...so, who did they kill?...

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## Backspin

> ...so, who did they kill?...


You are the one who wants to reverse the tape and say "if X didn't cross state lines , then this wouldn't of happened" Well, it's the same for them. So that's a wash.

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## tomcat

> You are the one who wants to reverse the tape


...no: I'm the one (among many here...and there) who insists he's a murdering teen thug trained by his parents to be a menace to society...this miscreant must be punished to justify his parents' GoFundMe account...

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## Backspin

> ...no: I'm the one (among many here...and there) who insists he's a murdering teen thug trained by his parents to be a menace to society...this miscreant must be punished to justify his parents' GoFundMe account...


Well you obviously don't have the slightest clue how the legal system works in the USA. I am not a fan of the gun laws in the USA either. But that's besides the point. 

I was just listening to a lefty podcast discuss the matter. And the host said , he's going to get off. It was self defense.

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## panama hat

> Well you obviously don't have the slightest clue how the legal system works in the USA





> I was just listening to a lefty podcast discuss the matter. And the host said , he's going to get off. It was self defense.


Well, there we have it . . . only Skidmark knows the legal system i the US is directed by a 'lefty podcast'.







> i forgot for a moment how incredibly stupid you are.


How could you, he proves it with very post

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## Backspin

> This was the moment where Kyle Rittenhouse came into the area where Rosenbaum was. They noticed he was by himself so they jumped him. Kyle is just starting to run away as he realizes that they are going for him. Rosenbam has a bag with a chain in it, in his hand.


I did some leg work to prove that Rittenhouse was attacked by the Jacobins with this pic. And everyone ignored it

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## panama hat

> I did some leg work to prove that Rittenhouse was attacked by the Jacobins





> i forgot for a moment how incredibly stupid you are.


Every post . . . he proves it again

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## Backspin

> Every post . . . he proves it again


I'm digging into the case. You are just being an ad hom whore

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## panama hat

> i forgot for a moment how incredibly stupid you are.





> I'm digging into the case.





> I was just listening to a lefty podcast discuss the matter. And the host said , he's going to get off. It was self defense.








> Every post . . . he proves it again

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## lom

> I was just listening to a lefty podcast discuss the matter. And the host said , he's going to get off. It was self defense.


So the podcast host is the judge and jury?

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## panama hat

> So the podcast host is the judge and jury?



Skidmark knows:




> I was just listening to a lefty podcast discuss the matter. And the host said , he's going to get off. It was self defense.





> Well you obviously don't have the slightest clue how the legal system works in the USA.

----------


## AntRobertson

Saw earlier that some Christian group has raised over $500k for Rittenhouse.

"Christian". 

The Handmaids Tale is looking more and more like a doco.

----------


## tomcat

> Saw earlier that some Christian group has raised over $500k for Rittenhouse.


...I hope he enjoys shopping at the prison commissary...

----------


## Backspin

> ...I hope he enjoys shopping at the prison commissary...


Hilarious. This is the easiest case for self defense ever

----------


## Troy

^ He might be able to claim self defence to get premeditated murder reduced to manslaughter, but that will be about it.

 The reporter eyewitness has made a police statement stating he was carrying the gun in an inappropriate manner earlier. The police had already told him to go home. He had no authority to protect buildings or be out during curfew. The gun he was carrying was provocative. He got himself into a bad situation and made that situation worse.

----------


## misskit

*Internal document shows Trump officials were told to make comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse*

WASHINGTON — Federal law enforcement officials were directed to make public comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager charged with fatally shooting two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, according to internal Department of Homeland Security talking points obtained by NBC News.


In preparing Homeland Security officials for questions about Rittenhouse from the media, the document suggests that they note that he "took his rifle to the scene of the rioting to help defend small business owners."


Another set of talking points distributed to Homeland Security officials said the media were incorrectly labeling the group Patriot Prayer as racists after clashes erupted between the group and protesters in Portland, Oregon.


It is unclear whether any of the talking points originated at the White House or within Homeland Security's own press office.

MORE Internal document shows Trump officials were told to make comments sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse

----------


## raycarey

what are the odds this so-called (socal-ed?) "trial of century" never even happens and this idiotic MAGAt pleads out to a lesser charge than 1st degree intentional homicide?

----------


## deeks

Latest news is that the anarchists are finally being charged.
SCOOP: Man Who Fired First Shots Behind Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha Has Been Charged

----------


## deeks

Aaand again the fake news loses, The truth does wins the end.

Kyle Rittenhouse won’t face charges in Illinois for Kenosha shooting

----------


## Backspin

> what are the odds this so-called (socal-ed?) "trial of century" never even happens and this idiotic MAGAt pleads out to a lesser charge than 1st degree intentional homicide?



i guess its possible RRAC

----------


## Backspin

> Aaand again the fake news loses, The truth does wins the end.
> 
> Kyle Rittenhouse won’t face charges in Illinois for Kenosha shooting



This is just charges in his own state ?

----------


## harrybarracuda

I am pissing myself at all these indignant illiterates howling about he isn't being charged with anything in Illinois.

They don't seem to understand that his crimes were committed in Wisconsin.

----------


## Backspin

> I am pissing myself at all these indignant illiterates howling about he isn't being charged with anything in Illinois.
> 
> They don't seem to understand that his crimes were committed in Wisconsin.


That's by I'm asking , piss breath.

He had charges in both states

----------


## Troy

> This is just charges in his own state ?


The article was related to Illinois PD investigation of possible illegal gun ownership in Illinois. The investigation showed he did not possess the gun in Illinois and so additional charges were not raised against him. 

He is still accused of first degree murder in Wisconsin

----------


## misskit

*Kyle Rittenhouse, Accused Kenosha Killer, Won't Face Gun Charges In Illinois
*
The white teenager accused of fatally shooting two demonstrators and injuring a third in Wisconsin in August will not be charged with gun crimes in his home state, an Illinois state prosecutor announced.


Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, faces six criminal counts in Wisconsin, including first-degree intentional homicide. He allegedly used an AR-15-style rifle during protests in Kenosha, Wisc., that erupted after the police shooting of Jacob Blake.


Lake County, Ill. State's Attorney Michael Nerheim's office said in a statement that an investigation conducted by local police "revealed the gun used in the Kenosha shooting was purchased, stored and used in Wisconsin."


"Additionally, there is no evidence the gun was ever physically possessed by Kyle Rittenhouse in Illinois," the state's attorney's office added.


Police in Antioch, Ill., led the investigation. Antioch is Rittenhouse's hometown, which is located about 15 miles southwest of Kenosha.


The Lake County statement did not provide any details about who may have possessed the gun or where it currently is.


Little is publicly known about the firearm's history, as the Chicago Tribune points out, so it is unclear if the teenager or another person would have faced charges in Illinois if investigators had determined Rittenhouse had possession of the gun inside state lines.

An attorney for Rittenhouse has previous said his client never had possession of the gun outside of Wisconsin.

"Kyle did not carry a gun across state lines," Lin Wood said in a tweet. "The gun belonged to his friend, a Wisconsin resident. The gun never left the State of Wisconsin. Truth always prevails."

Ahead of a court appearance earlier this month which Rittenhouse joined via video link, his legal team submitted a court filing suggesting he was a "patriot" and only at the demonstrations to provide medical assistance while he carried a rifle for self-defense, Chicago NPR member station WBEZ reports.

Rittenhouse, a staunch supporter of the Blue Lives Matter movement, is said to have traveled to Kenosha to join militiamen who purported to be there to assist state and local law enforcement protect property from being destroyed amid protests.

Rittenhouse's actions were apparently captured on graphic video posted on social media.

President Trump, who has made law and order a central theme of his reelection campaign, declined to condemn the teen's alleged actions in August. He suggested, without evidence, that Rittenhouse may have been trying to protect himself when he fired his weapon.

"I guess he was in very big trouble," Trump said. "He probably would have been killed."

Democrats have pointed to Rittenhouse as the embodiment of the threat posed by domestic terrorism.

The teenager remains in a juvenile detention center in Lake County where he is being held without bond. He is due in court at Oct. 30 for an extradition hearing.

Kyle Rittenhouse Will Face No Gun Charges In Illinois For Wisconsin Shooting : Live Updates: Protests For Racial Justice : NPR

----------


## Backspin

^ No need to state his race misskit. But thanks for the update

----------


## panama hat

> They don't seem to understand that his crimes were committed in Wisconsin.


 :rofl:  Skidmark and deeks, the pretend-Aussie





> No need to state his race misskit


You have a problem with that?

----------


## Backspin

> Skidmark and deeks, the pretend-Aussie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a problem with that?



  This case involves all white men. There is no race component to it

----------


## panama hat

> This case involves all white men. There is no race component to it


Really?  Are you sure?  

Are you being disingenuous or simply an utter racist?





> ^ No need to state his race misskit. But thanks for the update


Where does Misskit state his race?



Methinks thou doth protest too much, a tad too sensitive?

----------


## deeks

OK settle down fellas, I knew this was going to happen 3-4 weeks ago, because i listened to his lawyers and not the MSM news, Back then everyone was saying that he carried a gun across state lines to kill lefties, No he did not. but that is the facts, he was there as a member of the community of which he is involved in. fact. he worked there fact, he helped out there fact, he tried to to surrender to the local police, fact. he did not shoot at anyone that was not a threat, fact. the only people he shot had attempted to remove his weapon, had hold of his weapon, had pointed a weapon at him, fact.  And you wonder why Trump says Fake news is the enemy of the people, i9ts because they dont care, they want clicks, they leave shit out to make it sensational, dont ya get it yet? My news sources had the actual guy on the scene that took his shirt off to help the first fatallity, Did yours? and he explained what happened in his eye whiteness account, Did yours? or is it all gasbagging? 
DONT TRUST THEM, just wait 24-48 hours and go watch Dan Bongino or Tim Pool, are the first 2 easiest ones to find.

----------


## Backspin

Lego man Don Bongino  :Smile:

----------


## deeks

^We knew the gun was in the local and not bought across the state line, infact the gun was supplied by the group employed to protect the business.
But no no no dont listen to Deeks he gets his news from youtube. phaarrrkooorrrrfff. 
Just wake up guys.

----------


## raycarey

> he explained what happened in his eye *whiteness* account


i'm sure he did.

----------


## Backspin

> i'm sure he did.

----------


## panama hat

> eye whiteness account





> i'm sure he did.


Funny how these things slip out . . . especially when you're pretending to be an Aussie yet write like an American, really only discuss US politics and society etc...

----------


## misskit

*Kyle Rittenhouse, charged with killing 2 Kenosha protesters, extradited to Wisconsin*

An Illinois teen charged with fatally shooting two protesters during demonstrations and unrest in Wisconsin was extradited to that state Friday.


A judge granted an extradition request to send Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, of Antioch in northern Illinois, to Wisconsin, and he arrived at the Kenosha County Jail later that day, according to officials and court documents.


The judge rejected arguments by Rittenhouse's attorney that the documents did not conform to statutory requirements and that extraditing the teenager to Wisconsin would violate his Constitutional rights.

Rittenhouse is charged with first-degree intentional homicide, first-degree reckless homicide, attempted first-degree intentional homicide and other charges in the shooting deaths of Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber and the wounding of a third man on Aug. 25.

MORE Kyle Rittenhouse, charged with killing 2 Kenosha protesters, extradited to Wisconsin

----------


## Edmond

> Kenosha County Jail


Let's hope he leaves his cell when told to.





> MILWAUKEE-- Disturbing video released of a Kenosha County inmate getting paralyzed during a cell extraction at the jail.
> 
> Sean Bialas, 21, went to jail for bail jumping, disorderly conduct, and taking a car without consent.
> 
> 
> "You guys just paralyzed me," said Bialas, as corrections workers pulled him out of the cell.
> 
> Bialas says this repeatedly as deputies dragged him out.
> 
> ...

----------


## harrybarracuda

That boy had no fucking luck at all.

Kenosha fatal shooting victim identified as 23-year-old Sean Bialas

----------


## raycarey

if ever there was someone who needed to be made an example of, it's this fucking guy.

he traveled across state lines with a gun he wasn't legally allowed to posses and.....(wait for it)...... killed people.

lock him up.

----------


## aging one

#@ Skidmark aka Backspin, and Socal.  Advocating that this guy would and should get off as it was obviously self defense.   

Enjoy the hot water at your spa this weekend.

----------


## bsnub

> Enjoy the hot water at your spa this weekend.


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Backspin

> #@ Skidmark aka Backspin, and Socal.  Advocating that this guy would and should get off as it was obviously self defense.   
> 
> Enjoy the hot water at your spa this weekend.


First. I am a Canadian who's generally skeptical of guns. I don't own any guns. Don't plan to ever own one. I would never have slung a fucking gun over my shoulder and went into a riot zone like this.

Second. I just know how Seppos are with guns and I know their rules of engagement. I am just skipping to the meat of the case (self defense) and commenting on that.

They are fucking the kid around as much as they can now , because ultimately they know , he will walk due to self defense

Oh and its nice and cold up here at the springs. Steam coming off the water all day

----------


## panama hat

> I am





> I don't





> I would





> I just





> I am


Skidmark




> #@ Skidmark aka Backspin, and Socal. Advocating that this guy would and should get off as it was obviously self defense.


To be fair, he also advocates rape and forced molestation of women, so this is a minor matter




> Enjoy the hot water at your spa this weekend.


 :rofl:

----------


## Backspin

I am not advocating anything.  I'm just trying to guess what he will get. I personally think he should at least get a manslaughter charge. But by seppo rules he might just walk

----------


## aging one

> I am not advocating anything. I'm just trying to guess what he will get. I personally think he should at least get a manslaughter charge. But by seppo rules he might just walk


Dude is your whole life built on speculation? You are wrong here, and even more wrong on the South African woman on Koh Samui. I literally cant believe you are convicting her on the way her boyfriend looks.  A good old boomer term describes you to a T.  Sad Sack, but I prefer Nowhere Man. You will never fit in anywhere, of that I am sure.

----------


## panama hat

> Dude is your whole life built on speculation?


 . . . yes, because he refuses to delve deeper than the shallow gene pool he came from

----------


## raycarey

this little douchebag's bail was set at $2,000,000.

good.

----------


## aging one

> But by seppo rules he might just walk


Uh oh Nowhere Man...






> this little douchebag's bail was set at $2,000,000.


 :smiley laughing: 

Stick to the politics and social problems of Surrey BC.   But then again that would be above your head.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Reckon the proud gay boys are having a whip round?

----------


## pickel

> Stick to the politics and social problems of Surrey BC.


He would have to be Punjabi to be involved with that.

----------


## panama hat

> He would have to be Punjabi to be involved with that.


Are there Punjabi LBs he can get hammered by?

----------


## raycarey

> In a telephone interview with The Washington Post, posted Thursday, the jailed Rittenhouse said he acted in self-defense and has no regrets for arming himself that fateful August night as protesters marched in the wake of Jacob Blake's shooting by police.
> 
> 
> Rittenhouse, 17, who had worked as a YMCA lifeguard, was arrested at his home in Antioch, Illinois, a day after the fatal shootings of Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and Anthony Huber, 26, on Aug. 25.
> 
> 
> "I got my $1,200 from the coronavirus Illinois unemployment because I was on furlough from YMCA, and I got my first unemployment check, so I was like, 'Oh, I'll use this to buy it,'" Rittenhouse said in his first jailhouse interview.
> 
> 
> He wasn't old enough to purchase the weapon himself. Authorities allege that he had a friend in Kenosha buy the AR-15 and hold it for him in Wisconsin.


Kyle Rittenhouse says he used coronavirus stimulus check to buy AR-15 used in fatal shooting

----------


## bsnub

Let the scum rot.

----------


## tomcat

...put him in the same cell as his parents...they can do 15-20 as a family unit...

----------


## misskit

Don’t forget the adult who bought the gun for the underage boy. He needs to be locked up with them.

----------


## Backspin

> Don’t forget the adult who bought the gun for the underage boy. He needs to be locked up with them.


It's an open carry US state. It's not the UK or Australia. He most likely will get off on self defense

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Don’t forget the adult who bought the gun for the underage boy. He needs to be locked up with them.


I'm guessing that buying a weapon for someone else is a serious crime, let alone buying one for a retarded kid.

----------


## tomcat

*Kenosha murder suspect Kyle Rittenhouse posts $2 million bond, no longer in custody*

David K. Li (NBC News)

Sat, November 21, 2020, 4:36 AM GMT+7·2 min read



Kyle Rittenhouse, the Illinois teenager charged with killing two men during the Jacob Blake protests in Wisconsin this summer, made bail on Friday and walked out of jail, officials said.

"Kyle Rittenhouse's bond was posted this afternoon at about 2:00 pm which was set up through his attorney," Kenosha County Sheriff's Sgt. David Wright said in a statement. "He is no longer in custody at the Kenosha County Jail."

Rittenhouse, a 17-year-old from Antioch, Illinois, has been charged with first-degree intentional homicide, first-degree reckless homicide, attempted first-degree intentional homicide and other charges in connection with the deaths of Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and Anthony Huber, 26, on Aug. 25.

His bail had been set at $2 million. The teen has claimed he was acting out of self-defense.

Kenosha County District Attorney Michael Graveley and lawyers representing Huber could not be immediately reached for comment on Friday.
Rittenhosue said he was out on the streets of Kenosha that night, armed with an AR-15 and carrying medical supplies, to protect local businesses and render first aid that night.

In a jailhouse interview with the Washington Post posted on Thursday, Rittenhouse said he used money from a coronavirus stimulus check to buy the AR-15 with a 19-year-old friend's help.

The accused killer said had no regrets arming himself with a high-powered weapon.

"No, I don't regret it," he said. "I would have died that night if I didn't. I feel like I had to protect myself."

Blake, who is Black, was shot in the back by a white police officer on Aug. 23 in a confrontation caught on a bystander's cellphone.

The shooting sparked days of, at times, violent protests in the southeast Wisconsin city. Blake's shooting prompted the Milwaukee Bucks, who normally play their home games 40 miles north, to lead a brief NBA walkout.

----------


## pickel

> It's an open carry US state.


Not when you're under 18.

----------


## Backspin

> I'm guessing that buying a weapon for someone else is a serious crime, let alone buying one for a retarded kid.


Give your head a shake. This isn't Australia. I dont know the exact details state to state. But i do know that Seppos openly brag and post on social media, about the guns that their kids got for Christmas. If its criminal i doubt they would be posting it on facebook for all to see

----------


## Backspin

> Not when you're under 18.

----------


## panama hat

> It's an open carry US state. It's not the UK or Australia. He most likely will get off on self defense


How can so much stupid be enclosed in one person . . .

----------


## Backspin

> Let the scum rot.



Kyle Rittenhouse........ made bail on Friday and walked out of jail.  :Smile:

----------


## pickel

> 


You don't quite understand what "open carry" means do you.

----------


## Backspin

But obviously Kyle Rittenhouse just assumed that he'd never have to use the gun. By having the gun, he just assumed that nobody would fuck with him by default. In having the gun, he escalated to deescalate. But he assumed wrong. There is in fact people mentally challenged enough, to attack people with their fists and feet who have guns. Its like a criminal who gets in a fight with an armed cop. The cops usually shoot those ppl dead. And that's what Kyle Rittenhouse did. The only difference is, hes not a cop.

----------


## panama hat

> You don't quite understand what "open carry" means do you.


He doesn't understand many things





> There is in fact people mentally challenged enough




Yes, there 'is', Skidmark

----------


## AntRobertson

> But obviously Kyle Rittenhouse just assumed that he'd never have to use the gun.


_“Nobody drives to a city with guns because they love someone else’s business that much.

That’s some bullshit. No one thinks, ‘it’s my solemn duty to pick up a rifle and protect T.J. Maxx.’ They do it because they’re hoping to shoot someone”



_​You are a fucking plank.

----------


## Backspin

> You don't quite understand what "open carry" means do you.


No I do. 

So are you saying that you know the ins and outs of the law ? Are you sure that there isn't something in the fine print where under agers can carry if they are with an adult or something ? Or if they are traveling to a gun club with members or something ? Rittenhouse was with friends and family. And who knows what all the details of the law is.

The pics are just meant to show, that these places have liberal fuckin gun laws.

----------


## pickel

> So are you saying that you know the ins and outs of the law ? Are you sure that there isn't something in the fine print where under agers can carry if they are with an adult or something ? Or if they are traveling to a gun club with members or something ?


Wisconsin state law 948.60(2)(a) states: "Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor." However, the exception is: "when the dangerous weapon is being used in target practice under the supervision of an adult or in a course of instruction in the traditional and proper use of the dangerous weapon under the supervision of an adult."

Gun laws in Wisconsin - Wikipedia

Did his family take him there for target practice dummie?

----------


## Troy

Granting bail for murder? Interesting.

----------


## sabang

Just a question. In an open carry state, where blacks seem to get shot quite often, why don't they arm themselves with guns too? It would seem to be a great idea when you are jogging. 
Might be a good business idea there for someone.

----------


## Cujo

> Just a question. In an open carry state, where blacks seem to get shot quite often, why don't they arm themselves with guns too? It would seem to be a great idea when you are jogging. 
> Might be a good business idea there for someone.


Unlawful killing.

----------


## sabang

Cowards carry guns, and they distinctly hesitate to shoot at someone who is also carrying. Because they can shoot back.

----------


## panama hat

> You don't quite understand what "open carry" means do you.





> No I do.





> So are you saying that you know the ins and outs of the law ?





> Wisconsin state law 948.60(2)(a) states: "Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor." However, the exception is: "when the dangerous weapon is being used in target practice under the supervision of an adult or in a course of instruction in the traditional and proper use of the dangerous weapon under the supervision of an adult."





> . . . crickets . . .


Ah, Skidmark . . .

----------


## Backspin

> Unlawful killing.



In the United States, *self-defense* is an affirmative defense that is used to justify the use of force by one person against another person under specific circumstances.

*General rule*In the U.S., the general rule is that "[a] person is privileged to use such force as _reasonably_ appears necessary to defend him or herself against an apparent threat of _unlawful_ and _immediate_ violence from another."[1]  In cases involving non-deadly force, this means that the person must  reasonably believe that their use of force was necessary to prevent  imminent, unlawful physical harm.[2] When the use of deadly force  is involved in a self-defense claim, the person must also reasonably  believe that their use of deadly force is immediately necessary to  prevent the other's infliction of great bodily harm or death

So you don't even need to be at risk of death to lawfully use self defense. You can use force to defend against unlawful and immediate violence and or physical harm.

----------


## panama hat

> General rule





> idiocy/ˈɪdɪəsi/
> 
> 
> 
> extremely stupid behaviour.


Skidmark to a 't'

----------


## Backspin

When the use of deadly force   is involved in a self-defense claim, the person must also reasonably   believe that their use of deadly force is immediately necessary to   prevent the other's infliction of great bodily harm or death

This a pic of the first altercation. Rosenbaum is running after Rittenhouse with something in his hand. He ends up cornering Rittenhouse between that wall and the cars. And that is when Rittenhouse shoots. 


Seems like a lot of morons in this thread think Rittenhouse is obligated to put his gun down and get the living shit beaten out of him and risking getting shot by his own gun

----------


## Troy

^ Not quite, the mistake was being there with the gun in the first place. The he got himself into a bad position without backup. The adult supervisor is also to blame for allowing the situation to deteriorate to such an extent.

----------


## misskit

> Seems like a lot of morons in this thread think Rittenhouse is obligated to put his gun down and get the living shit beaten out of him and risking getting shot by his own gun


More like one moron doesn’t get that Rittenhouse should not have had the gun in his hand. He broke the law to have possession of it. He was too young, according to the law, open carry or not.

Interesting article here.

Friend who bought gun for Kyle Rittenhouse told police teen predicted life behind bars after shooting 3 during Kenosha protests
 (Kyle Rittenhouse. Murder or self defense ?)

----------


## panama hat

> More like one moron





> me


Yes . . .

----------


## Backspin

> ^ Not quite, the mistake was being there with the gun in the first place..


That kind of  _reductio ad absurdum_ is not going to factor into a self defense case. He was about to be unlawfully and physically harmed. He had a gun, he was permitted to defend himself.

----------


## Backspin

> More like one moron doesn’t get that Rittenhouse should not have had the gun in his hand. He broke the law to have possession of it. He was too young, according to the law, open carry or not.
> 
>  (Kyle Rittenhouse. Murder or self defense ?)


The underage thing is a misdemeanor charge and  _reductio ad absurdums_ are not going to factor in a self defense case

----------


## Troy

> That kind of  _reductio ad absurdum_ is not going to factor into a self defense case. He was about to be unlawfully and physically harmed. He had a gun, he was permitted to defend himself.


I think it is because the very act of carrying the rifle is provocative. Provocation will override any subsequent attempt at self defence. There may be mitigating circumstances that get the charge dropped from first degree to second degree murder but that's about it.

----------


## panama hat

> reductio ad absurdum





> reductio ad absurdums


Please don't use terminology you don't understand and use incorrectly (and plurals are not the same as in English)

----------


## Backspin

> I think it is because the very act of carrying the rifle is provocative. Provocation will override any subsequent attempt at self defence. There may be mitigating circumstances that get the charge dropped from first degree to second degree murder but that's about it.





> I think it is because the very act of carrying the rifle is provocative.


Of course it is ! I have the same emotional reaction to this case. 




> Provocation will override any subsequent attempt at self defence


No it wont ! Not in the USA in a open/carry guns a blazin state.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Please don't use terminology you don't understand and use incorrectly (and plurals are not the same as in English)


He's being malthusian or something.

 :bananaman:

----------


## panama hat

> He's being malthusian or something.


Malthusian Jacobian QED . . . 

His posts are perfect examples of reductio in emperio cerebrum

----------


## Troy

> No it wont ! Not in the USA in a open/carry guns a blazin state.


Let's see about the first shooting, although it'll be difficult to claim lethal force self-defence against an unarmed aggressor...

Meanwhile, after the first shooting, Kyle Rittenhouse became the aggressor and claiming self-defence is pretty much ruled out at this point.

Obviously only my opinion.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Attorney Lin Wood said in a tweet on Friday that Mike Lindell, CEO of MyPillow, Inc., and actor Ricky Schroder helped raise the "required $2M cash bail" for Rittenhouse.

https://abc7chicago.com/kyle-rittenhouse-rittenouse-shooting-my-pillow-ceo-mike-lindell/8153234/

----------


## panama hat

^ He's the nutcase super-supporter of Trump.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^ He's the nutcase super-supporter of Trump.


Who advertises on Fox News 24/7 or it seems like it.

 :Smile:

----------


## Backspin

> Attorney Lin Wood said in a tweet on Friday that Mike Lindell, CEO of MyPillow, Inc., and actor Ricky Schroder helped raise the "required $2M cash bail" for Rittenhouse.
> 
> https://abc7chicago.com/kyle-rittenhouse-rittenouse-shooting-my-pillow-ceo-mike-lindell/8153234/


Are you kidding. Lin Wood , he's the shit lawyer who lost that defamation case for that Thailand expat against elon musk

----------


## helge

> IMO the kid was playing a very very dangerous game. But he isn't guilty of murder though. Not in the USA sense. You know.. guns, fuck yeah.


Interesting

----------


## helge

So... a possible rightwing boy gets himself into a situation, where he shouldn't have been.

Several, certainly not leftists, but scum gets hurt and killed, because they shouldn't have been there either.


And then the Holy Brigade turns on backspin  :smiley laughing: 


I commend you on not mentioning the 5 times rapist...of small boys, who got shot



Rittenhouse, Grosskreutz, Rosenbaum,Huber, Zelinski and Kreuger ?


All innocents who's mistaken the riots for the Oktoberfest ? :smiley laughing: 


The stupid boy will get of cheap

----------


## AntRobertson

> So... a possible rightwing boy gets himself into a situation, where he shouldn't have been.
> 
> Several, certainly not leftists, but scum gets hurt and killed, because they shouldn't have been there either.
> 
> 
> And then the Holy Brigade turns on backspin 
> 
> 
> I commend you on not mentioning the 5 times rapist...of small boys, who got shot
> ...


Are you drunk?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Are you drunk?


Well I would suggest a combination of drink and cretinism.

----------


## lom

> Are you drunk?


he's on the aftermath

----------


## panama hat

Burn, boy.  Wants to play with guns . . . 






> *Kenosha shooting suspect Kyle Rittenhouse ordered to stand trial*
> 
> 
> Kyle Rittenhouse was ordered Thursday to stand trial in the fatal shooting of two men and the wounding of another in August during Rittenhouse faces charges that he killed Anthony M. Huber and Joseph Rosenbaum and wounded Gaige Grosskreutz during protests that followed the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha.
> Kenosha County Commissioner Loren Keating, after hearing the testimony of a detective on the case, said the state had presented enough probable cause of felonies committed by the young man for the case to proceed to trial.
> Rittenhouse will be arraigned January 5 in Kenosha County Circuit Court.
> The 17-year-old faces two felony charges of homicide in the death of Rosenbaum and Huber, and a felony attempted homicide charge in the wounding of Grosskreutz.protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
> 
> Rittenhouse appeared in a preliminary hearing via video conference, seated next to his attorney, whose motions to dismiss some of the pending charges against his client were denied by the court.


Kenosha shooting suspect Kyle Rittenhouse ordered to stand trial  - CNN

Burn, boy.

----------


## Backspin

^ Like I predicted on the first page

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The 17-year-old faces two felony charges of homicide in the death of Rosenbaum and Huber, and a felony attempted homicide charge in the wounding of Grosskreutz.protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin.


Does Wisconsin have the death penalty? The best thing for this loser would be euthanasia.

----------


## raycarey

> ^ Like I predicted on the first page


of your myriad problems, one is that you assume people are as stupid as you are.

----------


## raycarey

> Does Wisconsin have the death penalty? The best thing for this loser would be euthanasia.


no, it doesn't.
the best thing for this loser would be for him to break big rocks into smaller rocks for 25 years.

----------


## Troy

^ The best thing that can happen is for such weapons to be banned from open carry on US streets removing the possibility of it happening again.

----------


## Backspin

Prediction time

I think he either gets off on self defense and is cleared to go the day of the verdict.

Or 1 or 2 of the charges gets reduced to manslaughter and he does 15 months prison.

----------


## raycarey

> Prediction time


as opposed to before, shit for brains?




> Here's my guess for the case. They will settle on manslaughter or something to that effect.





> He's going to beat the rap. Easily.





> He's going to get off on self defense.





> he's going to get off. It was self defense.





> he will walk due to self defense





> He most likely will get off on self defense

----------


## harrybarracuda

I am sensing Skidmark is leaning towards him getting off with a plea of self defence.

----------


## panama hat

Skidmark is moving the goalposts every time he shares his wit with us . . . and fails . . . trying so hard to be right, as always.  And failing

----------


## fishlocker

God I hate disorganization!  Don't like dat one either.  
 Ok, that was bad but I gave it a whirl. Now on a serious note was kyle Rittenhouse acting in self defense when he shot some peaceful protesters after he had been shot at, then an attempt to steal his rifle, beaten with a skateboard, and drawn upon with a firearm. 
 Unless this has been covered in another thread that I missed due to "the lock down" remember 
Y
O
M

That's right,  Your Opinion Matters!

Now shoot! Err, get on with it then..

----------


## TheMadBaron

> Now on a serious note was kyle Rittenhouse acting in self defense when he shot some peaceful protesters after he had been shot at, then an attempt to steal his rifle, beaten with a skateboard, and drawn upon with a firearm.


Excellent question! No, I don't think he was. Rittenhouse was shot at, but not by Joseph Rosenbaum. But let's back up a bit....

"Before we get started with all the shooting stuff, I want to point out that it is illegal for a seventeen year old to own a rifle in the state of Wisconsin."
_Cody Garrett_

Rittenhouse extinguished a fire set by protesters. He might have had the best of intentions, but it was asking for trouble. 

He was chased by Joseph Rosenbaum (and others), and he was shot at by someone behind Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum threw something at him - something burning, but not _even_ a Molotov cocktail. Rittenhouse turned round and shot and killed Rosenbaum. That, to my mind, was a disproportionate response. There are arguments to be made about the events that followed, but the prosecution will probably maintain that everything that followed can been seen as Rittenhouse attempting to flee the scene, and aggressing on citizens who were trying to apprehend him; that his other victims were also asking for trouble is irrelevant, and doesn't justify Rittenhouse's actions, which stemmed from the first unlawful shooting. I'd have to agree with that.

In any case, to my mind, Rittenhouse murdered Rosenbaum, and this is why children shouldn't be running around cities armed with rifles in the first place.

Apologies in advance to my pet trolls if the above response doesn't fit your narrative.

----------


## Backspin

> Excellent question! No, I don't think he was. Rittenhouse was shot at, but not by Joseph Rosenbaum. But let's back up a bit....
> 
> "Before we get started with all the shooting stuff, I want to point out that it is illegal for a seventeen year old to own a rifle in the state of Wisconsin."
> _Cody Garrett_
> 
> Rittenhouse extinguished a fire set by protesters. He might have had the best of intentions, but it was asking for trouble. 
> 
> He was chased by Joseph Rosenbaum (and others), and he was shot at by someone behind Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum threw something at him - something burning, but not _even_ a Molotov cocktail. Rittenhouse turned round and shot and killed Rosenbaum.


Nope. Rosenbaum gave chase and cornered Rittenhouse between a building and some parked cars. He was within reaching distance of Rittenhouse when he got shot. 
_For reasons that remain unclear, Rosenbaum began to pursue  Rittenhouse upon finding him alone, the teens attorneys wrote.  Rosenbaum chased Rittenhouse into a car lot while other rioters flanked  them.
_
_A shot rang out. The defense filing alleges that there  was a man with Rosenbaum who fired the shot into Rittenhouses  direction.

_
_Video captures the events as Rittenhouse turned  towards the sound of the gunshot and Rosenbaum lunged for his rifle,  the defense filing adds. Unable to retreat further and under grave risk  of immediate harm, Rittenhouse fired four shots from his rifle at  Rosenbaum._

----------


## TheMadBaron

> Nope.


Yup.

You haven't contradicted anything I wrote (in an entirely different thread, BTW). I haven't seen any evidence that "Rosenbaum lunged for his rifle," but it wouldn't change anything anyway. Rittenhouse had no more right to have the rifle than Rosenbaum did. I'm all in favour of taking guns away from naughty children.

----------


## Backspin

> Yup.
> 
> You haven't contradicted anything I wrote (in an entirely different thread, BTW). I haven't seen any evidence that "Rosenbaum lunged for his rifle," but it wouldn't change anything anyway. Rittenhouse had no more right to have the rifle than Rosenbaum did. I'm all in favour of taking guns away from naughty children.



This is before the shots



Then the gap closes. Rosenbaum is literally lunging for Rittenhouse's gun.

----------


## panama hat

Oh, do fuck off with your 'proof', Skidmark.  You want the killer to get off, just like you adore tyrants and totalitarian regimes.  It's the power thing with you, isn't it . . . hence your reliance on hookers.

----------


## hallelujah

> Oh, do fuck off with your 'proof', Skidmark.  You want the killer to get off, just like you adore tyrants and totalitarian regimes.  It's the power thing with you, isn't it . . . hence your reliance on hookers.


It's simpler than that: he's just an idiot.

----------


## tomcat

> he's just an idiot


...worse: an argumentative idiot...

----------


## Backspin

^ Quite the counter arguments we got here... All these useless emotional responses. No logic or reasoning.

What was Rittenhouse supposed to do ? Accept a fight for his loaded gun ? He had no chance against this hyped up meth head. He would have been dead.

Criminal defense lawyer on Youtube with no affiliation with the case says 16:00 in"if this isn't self defense then i dont know what is"

----------


## panama hat

> Quite the counter arguments we got here...


Why would you expect rational discourse flowing your way when you're simply regurgitating baseless click-bait and uninformed crap which suits your narrative.




> All these useless emotional responses. No logic or reasoning.


You really shouldn't talk about logic nor reasoning




> i dont know


Precisely

----------


## TheMadBaron

The thread, and the crazy long video, are full of factors which are irrelevant to the homicide charge.

For  a start, it wouldn't matter if Rittenhouse was acting in  self-defence - that doesn't automatically mean that he meets the  criteria for a _legal_ defence of self-defence. If I go to the zoo  with a gun and I poke a tiger, and the tiger attacks me, then at that  moment the best thing to do might be to shoot the tiger; I will be  acting in self defence. I will _still_ be legally responsible for  the death of the tiger, however, and claiming self defence won't impress  any judge. Don't poke tigers.

It doesn't matter that there were  guns everywhere that night. Whichever position you take regarding US gun laws, the fact remains that there _are_ laws.

It wouldn't make a  difference if this happened in a state where a seventeen year old could  legally own a rifle at home, or on a range.... Rittenhouse  _didn't_ legally own a rifle, and yet he was walking the streets  with one.

It doesn't matter if he didn't cross a state line with the weapon. That's just one relatively minor charge he won't be facing.

It  doesn't matter if he's a decent guy. It doesn't matter if his victims  were scum. It doesn't matter if there was a riot going on. Tragically, I  don't get to shoot Timmy Mallett.

It doesn't matter that someone else fired a gun first. Rittenhouse commited an unlawful homicide.

There's a CCTV video on YouTube somewhere of two guys attempting to rob a store at gunpoint. Perp 1 struggles with the proprietor. The proprietor grabs a gun and shoots Perp 1. Both perps flee, but Perp 1 collapses and dies right outside the store. However, the proprietor is not charged with the murder of Perp 1; Perp 2 is charged with the murder of Perp 1. 
After all, Perp  2 was committing a crime while in possession of a firearm, and as a  direct result of the crime he was committing, a man was killed. The lawyers called it a joint  enterprise criminal venture, and he was convicted of murder without  having fired a shot. I have no problem with that.

There's an argument to be made that it wouldn't even matter if  Rittenhouse hadn't pulled the trigger himself. He had an illegal weapon. Just by being there with that weapon, he was committing a crime. People died as a consequence of his  committing that crime. As I understand it, that's enough to convict for murder, in some states anyway - I'm not sure about Wisconsin.

It doesn't matter what  Rittenhouse or anybody else thinks his victims  might have done to  him if they could have got his gun. He brought the gun into a situation in which he lacked the maturity to behave responsibly with a gun, which is precisely why it is illegal for a seventeen year old to own a rifle in the state of Wisconsin.

----------


## Backspin

> The thread, and the crazy long video, are full of factors which are irrelevant to the homicide charge.
> 
> For  a start, it wouldn't matter if Rittenhouse was acting in  self-defence - that doesn't automatically mean that he meets the  criteria for a _legal_ defence of self-defence. If I go to the zoo  with a gun and I poke a tiger, and the tiger attacks me, then at that  moment the best thing to do might be to shoot the tiger; I will be  acting in self defence. I will _still_ be legally responsible for  the death of the tiger, however, and claiming self defence won't impress  any judge. Don't poke tigers.
> 
> It doesn't matter that there were  guns everywhere that night. Whichever position you take regarding US gun laws, the fact remains that there _are_ laws.
> 
> It wouldn't make a  difference if this happened in a state where a seventeen year old could  legally own a rifle at home, or on a range.... Rittenhouse  _didn't_ legally own a rifle, and yet he was walking the streets  with one.
> 
> It doesn't matter if he didn't cross a state line with the weapon. That's just one relatively minor charge he won't be facing.
> ...





> For  a start, it wouldn't matter if Rittenhouse was acting in   self-defence - that doesn't automatically mean that he meets the   criteria for a _legal_ defence of self-defence. If I go to the  zoo  with a gun and I poke a tiger, and the tiger attacks me, then at  that  moment the best thing to do might be to shoot the tiger; I will be   acting in self defence. I will _still_ be legally responsible  for  the death of the tiger, however, and claiming self defence won't  impress  any judge. Don't poke tigers.


I am sure the judge will be very impressed with the deceased's decision to hurl and object at and give chase and get an arms reach distance to a man carrying a loaded AR-15. This is where your analogy just fails. 




> It wouldn't make a  difference if this happened in a state where a  seventeen year old could  legally own a rifle at home, or on a range....  Rittenhouse  _didn't_ legally own a rifle, and yet he was walking the streets  with one.


Everyone in this case was in violation of curfew. So Rosenbaum shouldn't have been there just as much as much as Rittenhouse shouldn't have had a gun. But none of this is relevant anyway. If you are drunk driving and you crash into someone who's driving on an expired license, you aren't free to go because the other guy shouldn't have been there.




> It  doesn't matter if he's a decent guy. It doesn't matter if his  victims  were scum.


I havn't said anything about the backround of either one of them


Self defense in the US
*General rule
*

_In the U.S., the general rule is that "[a] person is privileged to use such force as reasonably appears necessary to defend him or herself against an apparent threat of unlawful and immediate violence from another."[1]  In cases involving non-deadly force, this means that the person must  reasonably believe that their use of force was necessary to prevent  imminent, unlawful physical harm.[2] When the use of deadly force  is involved in a self-defense claim, the person must also reasonably  believe that their use of deadly force is immediately necessary to  prevent the other's infliction of great bodily harm or death.[3] Most states no longer require a person to retreat  before using deadly force. In the minority of jurisdictions which do  require retreat, there is no obligation to retreat when it is unsafe to  do so or when one is inside one's own home.


_^ Notice how there is nothing here about legalities of guns and bullshit ? Because it doesn't matter. You can do anything including shoot an unlicensed gun, if your life is in danger. Its basically ridiclous to even bring it up. Saving your life is not contingent on gun legalities. 

*Retreat


*Rittenhouse retreated until the very last moment. He waited until Rosenbaum was in arms reach of him. There is just no way this cannot be construed as anything but self defense.

_Main article: Duty to retreat
_
_See also: Stand your ground and Castle doctrine


_
_ A majority of U.S. jurisdictions do not follow the common law rule that a person must retreat prior to using deadly force [11],  but rather have rejected this theory via statutory law in what are  known as "stand your ground laws", which explicitly remove the duty to  retreat. [12]  Whether the person retreated may, however, be relevant as to the  reasonableness of the use of deadly force, where there isn't an explicit  statutory law which affirmatively removes the duty.[13]  Under the common law rule and the rule in a minority of states, the  actor must have shown that he or she retreated prior to using deadly  force unless: 1) it was not safe to retreat; or 2) the incident occurred  at the actor's home.[14] In addition, the Model Penal Code requires retreat or compliance, if it can be done with complete safety._

----------


## lom

> You can do anything including shoot an unlicensed gun, if your life is in danger.


It is not known that his life was in danger and if it really was then the reason for that is because he was carrying a gun.

He created a dangerous situation and then used his gun to get out of it. He is 100% guilty of murder.

----------


## aging one

Thank you lom, although our resident juvenile delinquent will be doing this as he frantically googles for more crapola.

----------


## Backspin

> It is not known that his life was in danger and if it really was then the reason for that is because he was carrying a gun.
> 
> He created a dangerous situation and then used his gun to get out of it. He is 100% guilty of murder.


Its really just fucking hilarious that you think that. 

Just imagine a right wing proud boy, ran after and tried to take a loaded gun of an Antifa member. And the Antifa member blew him away. You'd all be laughing and saying self defense (of course)

----------


## Chico

> a) ...it's what he was raised to do: trailer park parenting...


And to think she mentioned generalisations, how pathetic.

----------


## panama hat

Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for us to pack it in as we simply cannot compete with the combine brainpower of Skidmark and chico/yaso etc...

----------


## Edmond

Guilty of gun possession, not guilty of murder.

----------


## TheMadBaron

> I am sure the judge will be very impressed with  the deceased's decision to hurl and object at and give chase and get an  arms reach distance to a man carrying a loaded AR-15.


None of which gives a person just cause to shoot someone.




> Everyone in this case was in violation of  curfew. So Rosenbaum shouldn't have been there just as much as much as  Rittenhouse shouldn't have had a gun. But none of this is relevant  anyway. If you are drunk driving and you crash into someone who's  driving on an expired license, you aren't free to go because the other  guy shouldn't have been there.


That's right; I'd be guilty, and if the other driver died I'd be guilty of causing their death,  because I shouldn't have been there _in possession of a deadly weapon_  (a motor vehicle), without the capacity to operate it safely; just like  Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there with his deadly weapon, lacking  the capacity to operate it safely. Most reasonable adults have enough life  experience that we would choose not to be there in the first place, and,  if there, certainly not to go irritating the rioters, even if, _especially_ if, we find ourselves carrying a rifle. It's a provocation. Some fool's going to get shot.




> I haven't said anything about the backround of  either one of them


And my post didn't say anything about _you_. One of the videos posted dwells on the  victims' criminal records. Since Rittenhouse didn't know about the  victims' criminal records, this is irrelevant (and a little sickening, actually).




> _In the minority of jurisdictions which do  require retreat, there is no obligation to retreat when it is unsafe to  do so or when one is inside one's own home._


The  distinction is there to cover specific situations which don't apply  here. Generally, if one is threatened on the street and can retreat, one should  retreat. If one is threatened in one's own home, one need not retreat. This is not  to say that one may foolishly place oneself in a situation from which  one cannot retreat _and which is not one's home_, provoke aggression, and then shoot an  aggressor in the head. One should not have put oneself in a situation from which  one cannot retreat. Don't get in the tiger enclosure. 

There is a case of a  thirteen year boy who took possession of his mother's gun, shot through the front door of the family home and killed two men standing outside. Since those men were trying to break through the door at the time, the boy was never charged; different rules apply in one's own home. Elsewhere, one has a responsibility to one's own safety which might include, given a choice, a) not placing oneself in dangerous situations, b) maintaining a safe escape route from such dangerous situations as one might find oneself obliged to place oneself in, and c) not carrying weapons illegally into those situations. Rittenhouse has a) failed, b) failed and c) failed. And people are dead because of that.




> Guilty of gun possession, not guilty of murder.





> Notice how there is nothing here about  legalities of guns and bullshit ? Because it doesn't matter. You can do  anything including shoot an unlicensed gun, if your life is in danger.  Its basically ridiclous to even bring it up. Saving your life is not  contingent on gun legalities.


Which is to say that there is no  connection between a) having a gun and shooting someone with it and b)  not having a gun and _not_ shooting someone....

----------


## Troy

Backspin has chosen to ignore the exceptions and limitations of the self-defence laws.

From the same wiki page he chose to quote:




> A person who was the initial aggressor cannot claim self-defense as a  justification unless they abandon the combat or the other party has  responded with excessive force.


He might get away with a drop from first degree to second degree in the first instance, but 4 shots against an unarmed assailant is going to make it difficult. The second is first degree murder and no chance of self defence.

----------


## TheMadBaron

> Its really just fucking hilarious that you think that. 
> 
> Just imagine a right wing proud boy, ran after and tried to take a loaded gun of an Antifa member. And the Antifa member blew him away. You'd all be laughing and saying self defense (of course)


Its really just fucking hilarious that you think that. I posted a response in a thread where I had been accused of an assumed right-wing bias, and now I'm defending my position in a thread where those who share my position are being accused of left-wing bias.

If an Antifa member were to attend a fascist rally with a loaded rifle, provoke the fascists, and open fire on them when they rise to the bait, he'd very probably be found guilty of murder, and quite rightly so.

----------


## harrybarracuda

It's great that we have someone willing to engage skidmark. I just find him a dim, tedious c u n t.

----------


## Backspin

> Its really just fucking hilarious that you think that. I posted a response in a thread where I had been accused of an assumed right-wing bias, and now I'm defending my position in a thread where those who share my position are being accused of left-wing bias.
> 
> If an Antifa member were to attend a fascist rally with a loaded rifle, provoke the fascists, and open fire on them when they rise to the bait, he'd very probably be found guilty of murder, and quite rightly so.


Show me anywhere in the self defense laws that would support your claim. 

There is no way that a murder charge can stick here. You cannot attack people who are in possession of guns in an open/carry state , and expect that they will be charged with murder when they defend themselves.

I posted a video of a criminal defense attorney saying it has to be self defense. Post a defense attorney saying its murder

----------


## bsnub

> Show me anywhere in the self defense laws that would support your claim.


You are not from the US. You are clueless about laws here.

----------


## Backspin

> Its really just fucking hilarious that you think that. I posted a response in a thread where I had been accused of an assumed right-wing bias, and now I'm defending my position in a thread where those who share my position are being accused of left-wing bias.
> 
> If an Antifa member were to attend a fascist rally with a loaded rifle, provoke the fascists, and open fire on them when they rise to the bait, he'd very probably be found guilty of murder, and quite rightly so.


I already said earlier in the thread , that I don't own any guns.  Because I think they are problematic.

Guns are like having a personal nuclear weapon. You own them to prevent ppl from doing harm to you. 

You can't force ppl to use them and then cry foul. I doubt Rittenhouse would be successfuly charged even in canada 

Canadian law 

34 (1) A person is not guilty of an offence if
(a) they believe on reasonable grounds that force is being used against them or another person or that a threat of force is being made against them or another person;
(b) the act that constitutes the offence is committed for the purpose of defending or protecting themselves or the other person from that use or threat of force; and
(c) the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances.

Read more: Canadian Self-Defense Law: Three Things You Absolutely Must Know 
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution 
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

(a) the nature of the force or threat;
(b) the extent to which the use of force was imminent and whether there were other means available to respond to the potential use of force;
(c) the person’s role in the incident;
(d) whether any party to the incident used or threatened to use a weapon;
(e) the size, age, gender and physical capabilities of the parties to the incident

----------


## TheMadBaron

> Show me anywhere in the self defense laws that would support your claim.


No. I'm not the one contending that such laws apply here.




> You cannot attack people who are in possession of guns in an open/carry state , and expect that they will be charged with murder when they defend themselves.


I'm not suggesting that the victims had any such expectation. I doubt that they got themselves killed in order that specific charges be brought against their killer.




> I posted a video of a criminal defense attorney saying it has to be self defense. Post a defense attorney saying its murder


Well, I'll try, but it'll take me a while to find one. Then I'll have to find a box big enough to fit him in. He might resist, and the Royal Mail's postal service has been greatly disrupted by COVID-19.... as such, he might not be saying anything at all by the time he arrives. But let's give it a shot; what is your postal address?

----------


## TheMadBaron

> Canadian law
> 
>     34 (1) A person is not guilty of an offence if
>     (a) they believe on reasonable grounds that force is being used against them or another person or that a threat of force is being made against them or another person;
>     (b) the act that constitutes the offence is committed for the purpose of defending or protecting themselves or the other person from that use or threat of force; and
>     (c) the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances.
> 
>     Read more: Canadian Self-Defense Law: Three Things You Absolutely Must Know
>     Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
> ...


Have you finished editing? Because, this is just arse.

----------


## TheMadBaron

Fuck Canadia.The actual relevant self-defense law is:

2014 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations
939. Crimes - general provisions.
939.48 Self-defense and defense of otters.

939.48 Self-defense and defense of others. :: 2014 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

----------


## Backspin

> Fuck Canadia.The actual relevant self-defense law is:
> 
> 2014 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations
> 939. Crimes - general provisions.
> 939.48 Self-defense and defense of otters.
> 
> 939.48 Self-defense and defense of others. :: 2014 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia



Yes indeed. And if you think that is going to help your side of the argument, you'd be mistaken.

They even have good witness testimony and possibly a audio recording of Rosenbaum threatening to kill Rittenhouse

Even better video here

At 0:24, you can see Rosenbaum get right into Rittenhouses physical space before any shot is fired (the author of the video thinks this is an indictment of Rittenhouse)

----------


## TheMadBaron

> And if you think that is going to help your side of the argument, you'd be mistaken


Says the guy trying to post Canadian law, and failing....

No, I don't think Wisconsin self-defense law helps anybody's side of the argument. I don't think it's relevant to the case. I thought it might help you to frame a coherent argument that I might be able to get my teeth into, but you'd have to read it and cite it. Too many big words?

----------


## TheMadBaron

Here's your lawyer pointing out the major flaw in the self-defense  argument, while admitting that he doesn't know Wisconsin firearms  law:




"Wisconsin generally prohibits the intentional transfer of any firearm to an individual under age 18.
The state also generally prohibits the possession of a firearm by any person under age 18."

Minimum Age to Purchase & Possess in Wisconsin | Giffords

Just by being there with an illegally held rifle, Rittenhouse was engaged in unlawful conduct. After that, the question of whether provocation might nullify the privilege of self-defense gets a bit complicated, but I'll have a go as soon as someone presents such an argument (one that doesn't require that the offence took place in Canadia, Narnia, or anywhere but Wisconsin).

I think Rittenhouse is guilty of murder. Unlike some, I don't want him killed - he was a child at the time the offense was commited (he still is, for another couple of weeks). I do think that he should be convicted of murder, and that they should sentence him to time served and to have his bottom smacked very, very hard.

----------


## panama hat

> It's great that we have someone willing to engage skidmark. I just find him a dim, tedious c u n t.


To be fair we did engage him initially . . . and whoever TheMadBarron is clearly hasn't - fresh energy.






> 939.48 Self-defense and defense of otters.


 :Smile: 



socal/backspin/skidmark needs to up his game

----------


## Backspin

> Here's your lawyer pointing out the major flaw in the self-defense  argument, while admitting that he doesn't know Wisconsin firearms  law:
> 
> "Wisconsin generally prohibits the intentional transfer of any firearm to an individual under age 18.
> The state also generally prohibits the possession of a firearm by any person under age 18."
> 
> 
> 
> Just by being there with an illegally held rifle, Rittenhouse was engaged in unlawful conduct. After that, the question of whether provocation might nullify the privilege of self-defense gets a bit complicated, but I'll have a go as soon as someone presents such an argument (one that doesn't require that the offence took place in Canadia, Narnia, or anywhere but Wisconsin).
> .


The lawyer in the video specifically states that these would be politicized charges. 





> I think Rittenhouse is guilty of murder. Unlike some, I don't want him  killed - he was a child at the time the offense was commited (he still  is, for another couple of weeks). I do think that he should be convicted  of murder, and that they should sentence him to time served and to have  his bottom smacked very, very hard



Thats an emotional response. I assumed before the details came out, that he fired into a crowd or fired some warning shots that went awry. And in that case  yes. That's just NOT self defense in any way. And he has to face charges. 

But he didn't shoot into any crowd. Or fire recklessly. He fired only when someone violated his immediate personal space and posed a threat to him.

----------


## Backspin

> To be fair we did engage him initially . . . and whoever TheMadBarron is clearly hasn't - fresh energy.
> 
> socal/backspin/skidmark needs to up his game


Oh do i ever.

----------


## TheMadBaron

> The lawyer in the video specifically states that these would be politicized charges.


And? Had you finished that thought? I reckon there's at least another two thirds of it before it makes an argument.




> Or fire recklessly.


He shot his first victim in the head. It might be in the best interests of the accused to accept that he fired recklessly, or the whole thing starts to look a bit more murdery. It begs questions like, why didn't he shoot Rosenbaum in the leg, once?




> He fired only when someone violated his immediate personal space and posed a threat to him.


Yes. That's illegal, you know. If I slap you in the face with a kipper, and scream at you that I'm going to kill you, you get to push me away, try to restrain me, try to beat me up, even to break my nose with the butt of your assault rifle if you have one to hand. 

You don't get to shoot me.

----------


## TheMadBaron

> Oh do i ever.


Can someone with a big screen tell me what this shows? Where Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse are indicated, I can only see three blobs, at least two of which are probably people. I kind of get the feeling that I'm supposed to be able to see what they're doing, or something.

----------


## misskit

If Rittenhouse’s life wasn’t screwed already, he’s making sure he’s screwed. Can’t believe this guy’s mother plays a part in this.*


Motion to change Rittenhouse's bond agreement after allegedly flashing white-power signs at bar
*


KENOSHA — Kenosha County prosecutors are attempting to modify Kyle Rittenhouse's bond agreement after they say the 18-year-old flashed white-power signs while posing for photos, drank several beers and was 'loudly serenaded' with the Proud Boys' official song at a Mount Pleasant bar.


Rittenhouse, who is charged with shooting and killing two people and injuring a third during protests and unrest in Kenosha last summer, was released from Kenosha County Jail on a $2 million bond. That bond agreement, in its current state, does not restrict Rittenhouse from entering a bar or drinking alcohol - as those underage are allowed to do in the company of parents in Wisconsin - nor does it stop him from fraternizing with known members of white supremacist groups.

In a motion to modify Rittenhouse's bond Wednesday, the Kenosha County District Attorney's Office details Rittenhouse's Jan. 5 visit to Pudgy’s Pub with his mother. Rittenhouse stopped at the Mount Pleasant tavern shortly after pleading not guilty to homicide charges in connection to the Kenosha shooting. Rittenhouse's attorneys argue he fired his rifle in self-defense.

The prosecutors are now asking Rittenhouse's bond be changed to include the following:


The defendant shall be prohibited from possessing or consuming alcohol.


The defendant shall not be present in any establishment where alcohol is served.


The defendant shall be prohibited from making any public display of any “white power" or “white supremacy” signs, symbols, or hand gestures.


The defendant shall have no contact with any known militia members or known members of any violent white power/white supremacist groups or organizations, including but not limited to the group identified as the “Proud Boys.”

According to documents from Kenosha prospectors Wednesday, Rittenhouse, his mother and several other adults arrived at Pudgy's Pub on Washington Avenue. Local law enforcement was soon notified of Rittenhouse's presence there, and later gathered surveillance video and still footage of his visit to the bar. [Those photos are included in this article].


Rittenhouse was at the bar for about an hour and a half, prosecutors say. He wore a t-shirt that read "Free as F***."


After arriving outside at the bar, Rittenhouse posed for photos with two other men in his group. In these photos, Rittenhouse and the other men flashed the "OK" sign, which has been co-opted as a "white power" sign by white supremacists, according to prosecutors.

After posing for the photos, Rittenhouse entered the bar and was served a beer by the bartender, the motion states. He consumed a total of three beers in the time he was at Pudgy's.


Within a few minutes of entering the bar, Rittenhouse was also "loudly serenaded" by five adult men in his group with the song, "Proud of Your Boy" - an obscure song written for the 1992 Disney film "Aladdin," prosecutors state.


The white supremacist group, the Proud Boys, was in fact named after this song, and the song is sung by members of the group, the motion says.
Rittenhouse posed for several more photographs with the men in the bar. In each of these photos, Rittenhouse and the other men flashed the "OK" sign used by white supremacists, according to prosecutors.


"The defendant then remained with these 'Proud Boys' for the entire time he was in the bar," the motion states.


Motion to modify Rittenhouse's bond


Prosecutors thus argue in their motion that Rittenhouse first should not be allowed to possess or consume alcohol. They state that Rittenhouse was 17 when he allegedly shot the three victims; that he is now 18 and an Illinois resident; that consumption can increase the likelihood of violent, criminal acts - combined with the reality that Rittenhouse is accused of the most serious criminal offense in Wisconsin, first-degree intentional homicide, they argue.


Prosecutors also argue Rittenhouse should be restricted from associating with known militia members or known members of any violent, white power or white supremacist groups. They argue that the group has advocated for violence, has been involved in extremist rallies and movements, and its members have been arrested for committing crimes.


Prosecutors write: "The defendant’s continued association with members of a group that prides itself on violence, and the use of their symbols, raises the significant possibility of future harm. Further, this association may serve to intimidate potential witnesses, who may be unwilling to testify in this case because they may fear that the defendant’s associates with harm them or their families."


Rittenhouse will be back in Kenosha County Court on March 10 for his final pre-trial appearance.



Motion to change Rittenhouse'&#39;'s bond agreement after allegedly flashing white-power signs at bar

----------


## cyrille

Unkempt beards and massive guts certainly seem to be obligatory with this lot.


Particularly unsightly on their womenfolk.

----------


## bsnub

Let us hope this is his swan song before a long prison sentence.

----------


## cyrille

Probably the only way he'll avoid a heart condition.

----------


## Edmond

> The prosecutors are now asking Rittenhouse's bond be changed to include the following:
> 
> 
> The defendant shall be prohibited from possessing or consuming alcohol.
> 
> 
> The defendant shall not be present in any establishment where alcohol is served.


I don't see the point or reason in that, other than them being dicks.

Why should a legally innocent person, that is not in custody, be barred from consuming alcohol?

----------


## bsnub

> Probably the only way he'll avoid a heart condition.


 :smiley laughing: 

I just noticed the lard asses.

----------


## aging one

Skidmark's bro, been white knighting for the murderer since day one. He started a dedicated thread about him.

----------


## bsnub

> Skidmark's bro


Yep the dimwit will continue to humiliate himself.

----------


## cyrille

Isn't he here for long enough without people preparing for his arrival too?

----------


## harrybarracuda

I was trying to work out what the Proud Boys song is, but this is probably it.

----------


## aging one

Written out of Disney's 1992 Aladdin before production. Jesus H Christ. By the composers.

Sorry the video insert is not working for me.

----------


## panama hat

> I don't see the point or reason in that, other than them being dicks.
> 
> Why should a legally innocent person, that is not in custody, be barred from consuming alcohol?


I agree . . . sure, the guy is a revolting piece of murdering garbage but these restrictions seem far too arbitrary





> Skidmark's bro, been white knighting for the murderer since day one. He started a dedicated thread about him.


Yea, Skiddz has some perverted ideals . . . and he is in his 30s - I have difficulties believing that

----------


## Backspin

> Let us hope this is his swan song before a long prison sentence.


It's not even a white power sign. It's a meme of a white power sign. It's the exact same thing as the "perfect" hand gesture.



Something the retail right made up to troll. And people actually take it seriously.

----------


## Backspin

The fucking leader of the Proud Boys isn't even white. Neither are all of the members. It's just a western men's club.

And no. I'm  not a  western chauvinist. I think the western ethic and worldview is dumb

And I don't own guns. And I don't believe in them

----------


## Switch

> The fucking leader of the Proud Boys isn't even white. Neither are all of the members. It's just a western men's club.
> 
> And no. I'm  not a  western chauvinist. I think the western ethic and worldview is dumb
> 
> And I don't own guns. And I don't believe in them


Maybe not, but you are still a hedonist who cares little for the appalling impact that your behavior has on society.
You are a selfish prick, and you are damned by every post you make.

 You claim to shun the western ethic and worldview, but your posts indicate a dishonesty that belies that statement.

----------


## tomcat

> I don't own guns. And I don't believe in them


...well then...have you heard the good news about Jesus?...

----------


## AntRobertson

Despite his denials insecure and angry little beta's with their sense of entitlement like Socal are a fertile recruiting ground for groups like Proud Boys

----------


## raycarey

> MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Prosecutors asked a judge Wednesday for a new arrest warrant for an Illinois teen charged with shooting three people, killing two of them, during a protest over police brutality in Wisconsin after he apparently violated his bail conditions.
> 
> 
> Kyle Rittenhouse failed to inform the court of his change of address within 48 hours of moving, Kenosha County prosecutors alleged in a motion filed with Judge Bruce Schroeder. The motion asks Schroeder to issue an arrest warrant and increase Rittenhouse’s bail by $200,000.
> 
> Rittenhouse’s attorney, Mark Richards, countered in his own motion Wednesday that death threats have driven Rittenhouse into an “undisclosed Safe House.” Richards said he offered to give prosecutors the new address in November if they would keep it secret but they refused. He said Rittenhouse has stayed in constant contact with him.


Wisconsin prosecutors seek Rittenhouse arrest, higher bond

if this douchebag was a POC, he already would have been under the jail.

----------


## bsnub

> if this douchebag was a POC, he already would have been under the jail.


He would have never made bail because the fucking My pillow guy and Ricky Schroder and a bunch of rightwing shitbirds would not bail out a black man.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Talking of mypillow wanker, did you see how Newsmax are shitting themselves over the lawsuit?

The dumb shit just kept talking....

----------


## Backspin

Has fuck all to do with ppl of color or not. This was all white man on white man. So shut tf up

----------


## beachbound

> The dumb shit just kept talking....


When you’re so fu*king crazy that the Newsmax anchor walks out of the interview, then you know you’ve got problems. Perhaps he can use some of his pillows and make his own padded cell.

----------


## panama hat

> Has fuck all to do with ppl of color or not. This was all white man on white man. So shut tf up


Why are you like a pimply teen with imbalanced hormones?

----------


## bsnub

> Has fuck all to do with ppl of color or not. This was all white man on white man. So shut tf up


Once again displaying your full on white privilege and being too stupid to see it.

----------


## Scottish Gary

He was a weird little virgin who was obsessed  with the police.  Im sure all the Aryan brotherhoods in prison will watch his back

----------


## AntRobertson

> if this douchebag was a POC, he already would have been under the jail.


100%

Or more than likely dead.

----------


## aging one

I think that skidmark is a lot like Rittenhouse  just a lost soul, with no connect to the real world. A lost loser

----------


## panama hat

> I think that skidmark is a lot like Rittenhouse just a list soul, with no connect to the real world. A lost loser


Rittenhouse has the 'excuse' that he is half Skidmark's age . . . but yes, a valid comparison

----------


## cyrille

Even by your ham-fisted standards, that attempt at trolling is waay too obvious, flake.

----------


## bsnub

> Kyle is a patriot and he single handedly saved his Country from ruin


You are a fucking dimwitted buffoon. If that crap is not enough to identify you as a shitbird troll then I do not know what is.

----------


## beachbound

> I do think that he should receive a pardon .
> At the time, just prior to the incident , the USA was going up in flames , Antifa were going on the rampage in nearly every city , attacking all and sundry and the police couldn't stop them .
>    Properties were getting looted and burnt and the general populace were cowering in fear .
> The streets were lost to the rebels .
> Kyle went on the streets to fight back .
> He guarded a property and began shooting to protect the property .
> That was when the tide turned .
> The Proud boys took to the streets , armed and ready .
> It was then the rioters decided to go home 
> Kyle is a patriot and he single handedly saved his Country from ruin



Riveting read.
 You have a career waiting for you at Highlights magazine.

----------


## Backspin

> Once again displaying your full on white privilege and being too stupid to see it.


Yeah lets see us some white privilege data... ::chitown:: 




In my lifetime, the president of the US was black. The best golfer in the world was black. The F-1 champion was black and the best womens tennis players are black. So i dont even know what you are talking about

----------


## AntRobertson

> So i dont even know what you are talking about


Clearly. And that's part of the problem.

----------


## bsnub

> In my lifetime, the president of the US was black. The best golfer in  the world was black. The F-1 champion was black and the best womens  tennis players are black.


None of that has anything to do with white privilege you ignorant buffoon.

----------


## panama hat

> None of that has anything to do with white privilege you ignorant buffoon.


Nope, if a person of colour is successful at anything that automatically means that all people of colour have it easy . . . AND all at the expense of Caucasians, men mostly because that's what the whiny little bitch is so bitter about - his lack of success at anything, being one of life's losers

----------


## harrybarracuda

Trial starts on November 1st.

The little shit has a lot of racist/christian money behind him.

Let's hope that isn't enough to stop him doing hard time.

----------


## beachbound

I wonder if the judge is a Trump supporter.

*Prosecutors cannot call those shot by Kyle Rittenhouse 'victims.' But 'looters', 'rioters', and 'arsonists' is OK


*Prosecutors cannot call those shot by Kyle Rittenhouse 'victims.' But 'looters' is OK : NPR

----------


## Chico

.......

----------


## Backspin

> I wonder if the judge is a Trump supporter.
> 
> *Prosecutors cannot call those shot by Kyle Rittenhouse 'victims.' But 'looters', 'rioters', and 'arsonists' is OK
> 
> 
> *Prosecutors cannot call those shot by Kyle Rittenhouse 'victims.' But 'looters' is OK : NPR


Good

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I wonder if the judge is a Trump supporter.
> 
> *Prosecutors cannot call those shot by Kyle Rittenhouse 'victims.' But 'looters', 'rioters', and 'arsonists' is OK
> 
> 
> *Prosecutors cannot call those shot by Kyle Rittenhouse 'victims.' But 'looters' is OK : NPR


I wonder of which chapter of the KKK the judge is a member?

I've never heard anything so absurd.

----------


## beachbound

Judges on the state level hold a lot of power. Unlikely that anything will be done about this obvious double standard.
Prosecutors aren’t even allowed to use the term “alleged victims.” The judge said they should be referred to as “decedent“, or "complaining witness". Not exactly sure how the two people he murdered are going to be able to “complain” during the trial.

----------


## Backspin

> Judges on the state level hold a lot of power. Unlikely that anything will be done about this obvious double standard.
> Prosecutors aren’t even allowed to use the term “alleged victims.” The judge said they should be referred to as “decedent“, or "complaining witness". Not exactly sure how the two people he murdered are going to be able to “complain” during the trial.


If someone is threatening your life , you are allowed to shoot them. Regardless of the regulatory status of the weapon.

The "victim" of the shooting was literally trying to wrestle the gun out of Rittenhouses hand after threatening his life verbally

----------


## Backspin

> I wonder of which chapter of the KKK the judge is a member?
> 
> I've never heard anything so absurd.


All of the perpetrators were white. White men 

That's the most absurd thing written in this thread.

----------


## beachbound

> If someone is threatening your life , you are allowed to shoot them.


There is no stand your ground law in Wisconsin. The two people who killed we’re not armed. Rittenhouse came there with an assault rifle, with the intention of using it. It’s murder, and they should charge his skank mother with accessory.

----------


## Backspin

> There is no stand your ground law in Wisconsin. The two people who killed we’re not armed. Rittenhouse came there with an assault rifle, with the intention of using it. It’s murder, and they should charge his skank mother with accessory.


Keep on dreaming. He brought a gun so nobody would fuck with him. And Rosenbaum decided to physically attack him so he shot. 

All of this BS about Wisconsin. There were hundreds of people roaming the streets with guns around their shoulder. The 2nd person shot had a handgun that he discharged the same night.

----------


## beachbound

^
“Keep on dreaming“? All I’m telling you is the facts from eyewitness reports. The two people he killed were unarmed.
Not trying to convince you, Backspit. You’ve shown your narrow-minded stupidity, time and time, again. 
He traveled across state lines with an assault rifle, and shot and killed two unarmed people. 
Again, that’s murder, and his pathetic excuse for a mother should also be charged.

----------


## panama hat

Facts:



> The two people he killed were unarmed





> He traveled across state lines with an assault rifle





> shot and killed two unarmed people





> There is no stand your ground law in Wisconsin


Skidmark:



> He brought a gun so nobody would fuck with him.



Yup . . .

----------


## Cujo

This is crazy, the judge should be dismissed from the case.



> Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse cannot be called ‘victims’ in court, judge rules.
> The people shot by Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last August cannot be referred to as “victims” by prosecutors in court, a judge ruled on Monday.
> 
> 
> Defense attorneys may, however, call them “arsonists” or “looters”, the judge said.
> 
> 
> “The word ‘victim’ is a loaded, loaded word. And I think ‘alleged victim’ is a cousin to it,” said Judge Bruce Schroeder on Monday.
> 
> ...

----------


## Backspin

> ^
> “Keep on dreaming“? All I’m telling you is the facts from eyewitness reports. The two people he killed were unarmed.
> .


Rosenbaum ran after and cornered Rittenhouse and caught up to reaching distance from him before Rittenhouse shot him point blank to save his life. Its on video. 

Here is the still shot showing Rosenbaum physically attacking

----------


## Backspin

Rosenbaum seen here chasing after Rittenhouse with something in his hand, seconds before he caught right up to him.

----------


## Backspin

Joshua Ziminski: Charged For Firing Gun Just Before Rittenhouse Shooting

The man who allegedly fired the first shot behind Kyle Rittenhouse just prior to the fatal shooting in Kenosha last August has been charged.
Joshua  Ziminski, 35, was charged on Oct. 9 with disorderly conduct by use of a  dangerous weapon for firing a gun into the air as Rittenhouse was pursued by Joseph Rosenbaum. Rittenhouse would shoot Rosenbaum seconds later.


*The  charges could give Rittenhouse’s defense attorneys a chance to argue  that their client may have thought he was being fired upon when he  opened fire at Rosenbaum*, as Ziminski allegedly fired a gun in the air  seconds before Rittenhouse opened fire. Video shows Ziminski standing  behind Rosenbaum at the time.

----------


## Backspin

> This is crazy, the judge should be dismissed from the case.
> [/FONT][/COLOR]
> [/FONT]
> [/FONT][/COLOR]



Ah. Just because the judge hasn't sided with the mainstream media's portrayal of the case means he should be dismissed. The people shot were not innocent bystanders for christ sake. They were all looking for trouble in the same way that Rittenhouse was. They were just on the other side

----------


## panama hat

You're very eager to see the murderer shown as the victim . . . disappointing, Backspit

----------


## beachbound

> Rittenhouse shot him point blank


Yes, he shot an unarmed man, point-blank, four times. That’s murder, dumbass.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Keep on dreaming. He brought a gun so nobody would fuck with him. And Rosenbaum decided to physically attack him so he shot.
> 
> All of this BS about Wisconsin. There were hundreds of people roaming the streets with guns around their shoulder. The 2nd person shot had a handgun that he discharged the same night.


Beta cuck recognises beta cuck game.

----------


## Backspin

> Yes, he shot an unarmed man, point-blank, four times. That’s murder, dumbass.


When the person is showing every intention to wrestle the weapon away from you after yelling let's kill this motherfucker ?

What do you think was going to happen if he didn't shoot ?

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## beachbound

> yelling let's kill this motherfucker ?


Bullshit. Post the news report, or video that proves this happened.
before he murdered the first guy, the only aggression towards him was when someone threw a plastic bag at him.

----------


## Troy

> When the person is showing every intention to wrestle the weapon away from you after yelling let's kill this motherfucker ?
> 
> What do you think was going to happen if he didn't shoot ?


The second that he moved away from the place he was guarding and became isolated he was in trouble. Lack of training and lack of supervision put him in a situation that he should never have been. It's murder but there are others that should be charged as well, the guy that loaned the gun and the one who was supposed  to be supervising.

----------


## beachbound

^

He “Moved away” From that area, because the police ordered him to. He was in trouble the second he crossed state lines with an assault rifle.

----------


## Backspin

> Bullshit. Post the news report, or video that proves this happened.
> before he murdered the first guy, the only aggression towards him was when someone threw a plastic bag at him.


I already posted proof of this earlier in the thread ! And I will again

----------


## Backspin

> ^
> 
> He “Moved away” From that area, because the police ordered him to. He was in trouble the second he crossed state lines with an assault rifle.



*Legal experts see strong self-defense claim for Rittenhouse*


Legal experts see strong self-defense claim for Rittenhouse
WHAT HAPPENED?


The Rittenhouse case isn’t a whodunit. Bystander video captured most of the shootings.
*It  shows an unarmed Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse into the parking lot* of a  used car dealership. At one point, Rosenbaum throws a plastic bag (*home made gas bomb) at  Rittenhouse before the two move off-camera and Rittenhouse fires the  fatal shots at around 11:45 p.m.


Soon  after, Rittenhouse is seen running down a street away from the scene  with several protesters on his heels. He falls. Huber appears to *strike  him in the head and neck area with a skateboard*; Rittenhouse shoots  Huber, striking him in the heart.


Seconds  later, Gaige Grosskreutz *steps toward Rittenhouse holding a pistol*.  Rittenhouse shoots him, badly injuring Grosskreutz’s arm. Rittenhouse  then gets to his feet and leaves the scene.



Rittenhouse’s  attorneys say he came to Kenosha not to hurt anyone but to protect  businesses from damage and looting. And they say the people he shot left  him no choice.

They’re  expected to highlight Rosenbaum’s pursuit of Rittenhouse, and Huber and  Grosskreutz subsequently coming at him. The defense has said Rosenbaum  and Huber tried to wrest Rittenhouse’s rifle away, leading Rittenhouse  to fear he would be shot with his own weapon.

----------


## Backspin

WHAT DOES WISCONSIN LAW SAY ABOUT SELF-DEFENSE?


It  allows someone to use deadly force only if “necessary to prevent  imminent death or great bodily harm.” And it sets a two-part test for  jurors.

First,  they have to decide if Rittenhouse really believed he was in peril. 


Next, they  must determine if Rittenhouse’s belief was objectively “reasonable.” To  make that call, jurors will be instructed to consider whether any  reasonable person in Rittenhouse’s shoes would have also felt they had  no choice but to shoot.

----------


## beachbound

> I already posted proof of this earlier in the thread ! And I will again


There’s no recording of anyone saying “kill that motherfucker.“
That’s just you posting bullshit, in a lame attempt to support your pathetic defense of this murderer.

----------


## Troy

> WHAT DOES WISCONSIN LAW SAY ABOUT SELF-DEFENSE?
> 
> 
> It  allows someone to use deadly force only if “necessary to prevent  imminent death or great bodily harm.” And it sets a two-part test for  jurors.
> 
> First,  they have to decide if Rittenhouse really believed he was in peril. 
> 
> 
> Next, they  must determine if Rittenhouse’s belief was objectively “reasonable.” To  make that call, jurors will be instructed to consider whether any  reasonable person in Rittenhouse’s shoes would have also felt they had  no choice but to shoot.


A bit difficult claiming self defence when you are the aggressor in the scenario.

----------


## Backspin

> There’s no recording of anyone saying “kill that motherfucker.“
> That’s just you posting bullshit, in a lame attempt to support your pathetic defense of this murderer.


I think there is some rough audio of it that I'll find. And eye witness statements saying that's what they heard.

----------


## Backspin

> A bit difficult claiming self defence when you are the aggressor in the scenario.


So you are completely denying that Rosenbaum ran after , cornered and got within reaching distance of Rittenhouse, as reported by the NY Times ?

Do you think the video and still shots showing Rosenbaum running after , cornering and getting to within reaching distance are fake and CGI or something ?

----------


## beachbound

> there is some rough audio


you are completely full of shit. There’s audio of someone saying “he just shot that motherfucker.“, Referring to Rittenhouse killing the first man.
Again, you just making up shit, try to validate your lame-ass argument. 

Shut

the fuck



up

----------


## Troy

> So you are completely denying that Rosenbaum ran after , cornered and got within reaching distance of Rittenhouse, as reported by the NY Times ?
> 
> Do you think the video and still shots showing Rosenbaum running after , cornering and getting to within reaching distance are fake and CGI or something ?


I am saying that Rittenhousr was the one armed with an assault rifle in a public area. That makes him the aggressor and therefore claiming self defence is going to be a tad tricky.
He should never have been there in the first place.

----------


## Backspin

> you are completely full of shit. There’s audio of someone saying “he just shot that motherfucker.“, Referring to Rittenhouse killing the first man.
> Again, you just making up shit, try to validate your lame-ass argument. 
> 
> Shut
> 
> the fuck
> 
> 
> 
> up



Fuck you there isn't. I'll find it. 

The whole fucking case is based around 2 altercations.

-Rosenbaum and Rittenhouse had an altercation earlier in the night when Rittenhouse was with his group and around the gas station

-As Rosenbaum left that area, he said to Rittenhouse, "If I see you again, I will kill you"

-Rittenhouse leaves that area and goes walking around by himself

-Rosenbaum does indeed, spot him again, starts running after him and yelling at him.

----------


## helge

> I am saying that Rittenhousr was the one armed with an assault rifle in a public area. That makes him the aggressor and therefore claiming self defence is going to be a tad tricky.


Between you and me, Troy:

If someone started chasing me unarmed, whereas I possesed a deadly weapon; I would start feeling somewhat insecure.

The possibility that the unarmed guy is fucking nuts, wouldn't take me a split second, to figure out.

A game of "chicken" that couldn't end well.



> He should never have been there in the first place.


Ofcourse not

----------


## panama hat

> Between you and me, Troy:
> 
> If someone started chasing me unarmed, whereas I possesed a deadly weapon


And between you and the rest of the world, if you got yourself a weapon purposely built to kill and drove hours over state lines to join a protest which didn't affect you . . . well, we will stop there because normal people without an agenda wouldn't.

----------


## helge

^




> Posted by helge: Ofcourse not


See, PH

I got that covered

Try to understand my point

----------


## beachbound

> Fuck you there isn’t. I’ll find it.


I’ll be here, waiting with bated breath. 





> The whole fucking case is based around the murder of two unarmed people.


FTFY, Backspasm


The facts of the case are, a guy traveled illegally across state lines with assault rifle, and shot and killed two unarmed people. All that other bullshit you keep spewing about “his life was threatened“ or someone said,
 “ kill that motherfucker“, is crap the defense team is putting out there to muddy the waters.

----------


## panama hat

> Try to understand my point


Understood and underscored

----------


## Backspin

> And between you and the rest of the world, if you got yourself a weapon purposely built to kill and drove hours over state lines to join a protest which didn't affect you . . . well, we will stop there because normal people without an agenda wouldn't.


No. Not between you are the rest of the fucking world. Let the rest of the world speak for itself. 

If the roles were reveresed , and some completely mad Proud Boy started chasing and tried to wrestle a loaded gun out of the hand of an Antifa person , and the Antifa shot him , you'd be singing the precisely opposite tune.

There was illegal guns all over the street that night. Both sides had them

----------


## Backspin

> I’ll be here, waiting with bated breath. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FTFY, Backspasm
> 
> 
> The facts of the case are, a guy traveled illegally across state lines with assault rifle, and shot and killed two unarmed people. All that other bullshit you keep spewing about “his life was threatened“ or someone said,
>  “ kill that motherfucker“, is crap the defense team is putting out there to muddy the waters.


The laws of self defense are not subject to the legality of the weapon !

There was guns of questionable legality all over the place that night. Handguns , long guns , assault rifles , you name it. This didn't happen in Canada. 

Imagine that. A simple self defense case. But the guys gun license was a couple days expired. Oh, now you are a murderer because your gun lic was expired. Holy f

----------


## Backspin

Here we go

Read more: Can Use Of Illegally Carried Gun Harm Claim Of Self-Defense? LOSD Question of the Week 
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution 
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Classic Self-Defense: Illegal Weapon Should Not Matter
From a classical self-defense perspective, whether the weapon used in self-defense is lawfully possessed doesn’t really matter. The five core elements of self-defense – innocence, imminence, proportionality, avoidance, and reasonableness – don’t make any reference whatever to the legality or illegality of one’s defensive weapon.

----------


## beachbound

^
You pathetic tool. You’re obsessed with finding anything that justifies Rittenhouse murdering two unarmed people. 

Stick to the facts Backspasm, and stop with the hearsay.

----------


## panama hat

> No. Not between you are the rest of the fucking world. Let the rest of the world speak for itself.


This is a microcosm and you're singularly supporting the killer





> If the roles were reveresed


It'd be the same. 




> There was illegal guns all over the street that night. Both sides had them


Wow . . . that's it then . . . justifiable homicide - must be according to Backspit. 

Your hero would love you . . . if he would even give you the time of day

----------


## nidhogg

Backspit, i thought we had agreed you would just read the threads where the adults are talking?

For a laugh, i just looked at the Chauvin thread.  Man.  Did you call that wrong.

Problem is, the American legal system is like 3D-chess, and you are more of a "snap" kinda guy.

Lets see.  "I will kill you".  Freedom of speech is a first amendment right and hence protected.  Unless it is a "true threat".  In this specific case was its use protected or not?

Self defense does not apply in cases of provocation.  Was Rittenhouse being provocative  in marching around with an illegal weapon?

After the first shooting Rittenhouse was an "active shooter" who should have turned himself in to the police immediately.  It was within the rights of the second two people shot to apprehend an armed active shooter.

Each of these points (and many more) will be argued and debated and balanced.  It is impossible to predict the answer until all arguments have been presented and considered in light of existing laws.

So, the up shot of this is be a good boy and fuck off eh?

You really do not understand what is going on.

----------


## AntRobertson

Seems that socal's vociferous defense of Rittenhouse is mostly based on him recognising a fellow frightened little boy.

----------


## panama hat

> Seems that socal's vociferous defense of Rittenhouse is mostly based on him recognising a fellow frightened little boy.


What's the term for people like Skidmark . . . bate cup?  Umm . . . beta cup?  Oh, so close . . .

----------


## AntRobertson

> beta cup?


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Backspin

> After the first shooting Rittenhouse was an "active shooter" who should have turned himself in to the police immediately.  It was within the rights of the second two people shot to apprehend an armed active shooter.
> 
> n.


Here's the second guy who was killed. 

Striking in the head and neck, eye gouging and reaching for a weapon.

 Again. Chasing after, catching and getting within reaching distance of Rittenhouses gun. You can basically see Huber's hand touching the fucking gun.

----------


## Backspin

> What's the term for people like Skidmark . . . bate cup?  Umm . . . beta cup?  Oh, so close . . .



Beta cuck came from the alt right and is an alt right term.

Why Angry White Men Love Calling People "Cucks" | GQ

----------


## AntRobertson

> You can basically see Huber's hand touching the fucking gun.


No you can't.




> Beta cuck came from the alt right and is an alt right term.
> 
> Why Angry White Men Love Calling People "Cucks" | GQ


Another reason it's so apt as regards you then.

----------


## nidhogg

> Here's the second guy who was killed. 
> 
> Striking in the head and neck, eye gouging and reaching for a weapon.
> 
>  Again. Chasing after, catching and getting within reaching distance of Rittenhouses gun. You can basically see Huber's hand touching the fucking gun.


You just dont get it do you?

Unarmed citizen legally trying to detain active shooter who just murdered someone...

Which viewpoint will prevail remains to be seen.  But BOTH arguments need to be debated and viewed within the framework of the law.

----------


## Backspin

> You just dont get it do you?
> 
> Unarmed citizen legally trying to detain active shooter who just murdered someone...


 :smiley laughing:  No comment

----------


## beachbound

> Here's the second guy who was killed. 
> 
> Striking in the head and neck, eye gouging and reaching for a weapon.
> 
> Again. Chasing after, catching and getting within reaching distance of Rittenhouses gun. You can basically see Huber's hand touching the fucking gun.


Yes, just a few minutes before that, he murdered the first guy. Understanding that Huber would want to get the gun away from the sick little fuck.

----------


## Backspin

The 3rd person to run up to him had a hand gun and was pointing it at him. No , not life threatening at all.

----------


## Backspin

A friend of the man who rushed at the #Kenosha teen with a pistol and was shot in the arm has posted an update about his status. 



 That'll look good in court.

----------


## beachbound

^

Again, he had already murdered two people by that point.

----------


## beachbound

> some rough audio


Still waiting for that rough audio.

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## beachbound

> I already posted proof of this earlier in the thread ! And I will again



Tick, tock.

----------


## panama hat

> Again, he had already murdered two people by that point.


Skidmark adopts the 



approach to what he doesn't like

----------


## nidhogg

> No comment


That's the spirit!!

----------


## Backspin

> Still waiting for that “rough audio.“


Joseph Rosenbaum was popping off the whole night, taunting ppl to shoot him and threatening people, until he got shot. Youtube has been wiped of most of these videos.

Ill eventually find it on Odyssey or Bitchute

----------


## Troy

> Between you and me, Troy:
> 
> If someone started chasing me unarmed, whereas I possesed a deadly weapon; I would start feeling somewhat insecure.
> 
> The possibility that the unarmed guy is fucking nuts, wouldn't take me a split second, to figure out.


No-one with even the slightest bit of training would put themselves in such a position. It was never going to end well once Kyle R had become isolated from the support of the rest of his group. Rosenbaum was more likely to be saying: "Come on then kill me!" than "Let's kill the MF!", judging from his earlier suicidal tendencies. Was Kyle cornered at the time? Could he have run away? Could he have unloaded his weapon and dropped it? It will be interesting to know how he became isolated and how he perceived the situation at the time. A brave individual would have done the latter and suffered the consequences. Yes, that has happened before, Derek Wood and David Howes, Northern Ireland, March 1988.

The trial will be interesting and is not as clear cut as the Chauvin case. Well, not in the USA.

----------


## panama hat

> Youtube has been wiped of most of these videos.


It's a cunsp... Umm, a consperesee... Errr, a corspriacee

----------


## Backspin

> That's the spirit!!



Its a manifestly ludicrous argument.  And the prosecution isn't going to use it.

----------


## Backspin

> Was Kyle cornered at the time? Could he have run away? Could he have unloaded his weapon and dropped it? It will be interesting to know how he became isolated and how he perceived the situation at the time. A brave individual would have done the latter and suffered the consequences. Yes, that has happened before, Derek Wood and David Howes, Northern Ireland, March 1988.
> 
> The trial will be interesting and is not as clear cut as the Chauvin case. Well, not in the USA.





> Was Kyle cornered at the time?


Yes. Literally cornered. The definition of cornered.



> Could he have run away?


Watch the footage again. He did run away. 




> Could he have unloaded his weapon and dropped it?


No. 

This is exactly when Rittenhouse started running. It actually put some distance between himself and Rosenbaum before he got cornered around the cars and Rosenbaum closed in on him. There is literally no time anywhere here to stop and start unloading the weapon. Plus he was by himself and surrounded by Rosenbaums entourage.

----------


## Backspin

Look at where Rosenbaums body ended up. Its not just up to the car that Rittenhouse was running to. Its in front of the car.

----------


## helge

> The trial will be interesting


Yes: it could be.

And thank you for your response..

As always a levelheaded one

----------


## Edmond

Mr. Huffy-Puffy went looking for it, got exactly what he was looking for from an adolescent he was assaulting during a gun-shooting riot (while trying to steal his gun). 


Betas (and probably vegans) around the world cry murder!!  :Smile: 



When’s the verdict?  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

At the end of a long day of jury selection Monday, 11 women and 9 men were chosen for the homicide trial of Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Rittenhouse, 18, is on trial for shooting three white men — two of them fatally — with an AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle during a late night protest against the police shooting of a Black man in August 2020. He faces two homicide counts, one count of attempted homicide, and charges of reckless endangerment and illegal possession of a dangerous weapon by a minor.
The jury will decide if Rittenhouse acted in self-defense, as his lawyers will argue, or whether he engaged in vigilantism when he traveled to Kenosha from his home in Illinois to stand guard with other armed anti-protesters at a mechanic shop. The court did not give a racial breakdown of the 12 jurors and eight alternates, but at least two are gun owners, one said she was frightened during the protests, and another juror is a pharmacist who said she was robbed at gunpoint in 2012, The Associated Press recounts. 
Circuit Judge Bruce Schroeder repeatedly told the jurors on Monday that they will base their verdict on only what they hear in the courtroom. "This is not a political trial," he insisted. "It was mentioned by both political campaigns and the presidential campaign last year, in some instances very, very imprudently," but "I don't want it to get sidetracked into other issues," like the Second Amendment. 
During a delay Monday, Schroeder had the prospective jurors play a game of Jeopardy!, "something he sometimes does as attorneys get organized," AP reports. The judge has also shown his idiosyncrasies by telling prosecutors they cannot call the men Rittenhouse shot "victims" but Rittenhouse's lawyers can refer to them as looters, rioters, or arsonists, even if they weren't. 

https://theweek.com/republicans/1006...tifies-he-beat

----------


## nidhogg

> The judge has also shown his idiosyncrasies by telling prosecutors they cannot call the men Rittenhouse shot "victims" but Rittenhouse's lawyers can refer to them as looters, rioters, or arsonists, even if they weren't.


That simply has to be pretty good grounds for an appeal if it does not go the prosecutions way I would have thought...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That simply has to be pretty good grounds for an appeal if it does not go the prosecutions way I would have thought...


A decent lawyer should be able to come up with something like "the unarmed man who was shot by Rittenhouse".

 :Smile:

----------


## Backspin

> That simply has to be pretty good grounds for an appeal if it does not go the prosecutions way I would have thought...


because it deviates from your biases in the case , it's grounds for appeal

----------


## Backspin

> A decent lawyer should be able to come up with something like "the unarmed man who was shot by Rittenhouse".


So how far away do you think rosenbaum was to him ? Because you don't seem to believe that he was right in his personal space fighting for the weapon. 10 or 20 feet ?

----------


## Troy

> because it deviates from your biases in the case , it's grounds for appeal


No, not bias in the case, more a deviation from the standard definition of a victim.

That is: 




> Victim (noun) a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.

----------


## Edmond

Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his watch, you're a thief.


Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his wallet, you're a thief. 


Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his gun, you're not a thief.


 :poo:

----------


## Backspin

> Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his watch, you're a thief.
> 
> 
> Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his wallet, you're a thief. 
> 
> 
> Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his gun, you're not a thief.


The rosenbaum supporters are completely denying that any of this happened I guess. Even though it was caught on camera.


Dishonesty ? Delusional thinking ? I dunno

When I first heard of the case , I assumed it was some kid that got scared and went a little trigger happy. After watching the story in detail , I realized wait a minute ...this is textbook self defense.

----------


## beachbound

> Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his watch, you're a thief.
> 
> 
> Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his wallet, you're a thief. 
> 
> 
> Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his gun, you're not a thief.


Get Beaten up by somebody, and you’re a victim.

Get hit by a car, and you’re a victim. 

Get shot and killed by someone with an assault rifle, and you’re complaining witness.

 :poo:

----------


## AntRobertson

> Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his watch, you're a thief.
> 
> 
> Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his wallet, you're a thief.
> 
> 
> Go out of your way to assault a guy and try to steal his gun, you're not a thief.


Go out of your way to make fatuous and specious comparisons, you're doing it wrong.

----------


## AntRobertson

Rittenhouse's attorney has argued that a skateboard is a deadly weapon because you can decapitate someone with it...

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## panama hat

> Rittenhouse's attorney has argued that a skateboard is a deadly weapon because you can decapitate someone with it...


Enter Skidmark citing examples of skateboards almost decapitating someone . . . well, hitting people on the head, but he'll find the beheading videos for sure sooner or later.  Until the the attorney is quite correct.

----------


## beachbound

> find the beheading videos


Wait your turn. I’m still waiting for my “rough audio”
 :Smile:

----------


## Troy

> Rittenhouse's attorney has argued that a skateboard is a deadly weapon because you can decapitate someone with it...


Well, it was being used to bludgeon Kyle R at the time.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> the evidence will show that Rittenhouse chased down Rosenbaum and shot him four times, including a fatal shot to the back.


That should be enough to doom any such worthless coward.

But republicans have no morals.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Well, it was being used to bludgeon Kyle R at the time.


It would be difficult enough to bludgeon someone to death with a skateboard much less remove their head.

Not renowned for their Ginsu 3000 properties.  :Very Happy:

----------


## Edmond

> Rittenhouse's attorney has argued that a skateboard is a deadly weapon


Armed robber attempting an armed robbery of a gun gets shot and dies.

----------


## nidhogg

People play complicated game of "fuck around and find out"...

----------


## misskit

*Kyle Rittenhouse trial begins: Key takeaways from Day 1*

A jury heard two wildly different scenarios of how two men were killed and another was wounded allegedly by teenager Kyle Rittenhouse during a chaotic 2020 protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin.


In opening statements presented Tuesday morning to the Kenosha County Circuit Court panel, a prosecutor said the evidence will show Rittenhouse, 18, was an "active shooter" whose reckless behavior led to the deadly incident. But a defense attorney countered that the same evidence indicates that it was "reasonable" for the teenager to use deadly force to defend himself from what he claims was a mob attacking him.


Rittenhouse has pleaded not guilty to felony charges of first-degree reckless homicide, first-degree intentional homicide and attempted first-degree intentional homicide. He has also pleaded not guilty to a misdemeanor charge of possession of a firearm by an individual under the age of 18, and an infraction of violating a curfew that was imposed on the city at the time.



'The only person who killed anyone was the defendant'


"Out of the hundreds of people that came to Kenosha during that week, the hundreds of people that were out on the streets that week, the evidence will show that the only person who killed anyone was the defendant, Kyle Rittenhouse," Thomas Binger, a Kenosha County assistant district attorney, told the jury multiple times during his presentation.


The chaos unfolded on Aug. 25, 2020, after protests erupted in Kenosha over a police officer shooting Jacob Black, a 29-year-old Black man, paralyzing him. Riots, vandalism and looting broke out, prompting an online call for armed "patriots" to come to the city to protect lives and property.


Rittenhouse, who was then 17, answered the call to help, his attorney, Mark Richards, told the jury. Richards used a series of photos and videos in his statement appearing to show Rittenhouse being kicked, hit in the head with a skateboard and having a gun aimed near his head when he shot and killed one man, Anthony Huber, 26, and severely wounded another, Gaige Grosskreutz, 27.


But Binger told the jurors that the fatal face-off started minutes earlier when Rittenhouse chased an unarmed protester, Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and shot him four times, including a fatal shot to the back, in a used car lot Rittenhouse claimed to have been protecting.


Binger argued there was nothing reasonable about the behavior of Rittenhouse that night and suggested that the teenager from Antioch, Illinois, who was armed with an AR-style semiautomatic rifle with a 30-round clip, was the aggressor who sparked the deadly confrontation.


"Based on all of that evidence, I think you will agree with me that the defendant is guilty of all of these charges," Binger told the 11 women and nine men of the jury.




'Privileged under the law of self-defense'


Richards, who gave his statement after Binger, blamed Rosenbaum for escalating the violence that led to his death as well as the killing of Huber and the wounding of Grosskreutz, who is expected to testify at the high-profile trial.


"Mr. Rosenbaum is ultimately the individual who lit the fuse that night," said Richards, who -- during a hearing out of the presence of the jury -- claimed Rosenbaum was discharged from a hospital that day after allegedly attempting suicide.


Richards said the evidence will show Rosenbaum had threatened to kill Rittenhouse and others who were attempting to protect property earlier in the evening. He claimed Rosenbaum, who was allegedly setting garbage cans on fire, seized on his promise when he found Rittenhouse isolated from his cohorts and that he attempted to "steal" the teenager's gun and use it on him.


He said the case "isn't a whodunit" and that Rittenhouse's actions were "privileged under the law of self-defense."


Richards displayed photos and video that he said show Rittenhouse using restraint from shooting people approaching him with their hands up, including Grosskreutz when he initially approached Rittenhouse after he had been knocked to the ground and kicked. He claimed Rittenhouse only shot Grosskreutz when the man aimed a gun near his head.


He then said Rittenhouse fatally shot Huber after Huber allegedly hit him in the head with a skateboard twice, the second time after the teen was on the ground and kicked in the face by an unidentified individual he referred to as the "jump-kick man."


"The defendant believes that the amount of force which he used or threatened to use was necessary to prevent or terminate interference and that his belief was reasonable," Richards told the jury as he read from state law. "You as jurors will end up looking at it from the standpoint of a 17-year-old under the circumstances as they existed on Aug. 25."




First prosecution witness


The prosecution called its first witness, Dominick Black, the boyfriend of Rittenhouse's sister, who allegedly purchased the rifle for Rittenhouse and joined Rittenhouse in Kenosha on the night of the killings.


Under questioning from both Binger and Richards, Black said that during the protest he was positioned on the roof of the car dealership they were protecting. He claimed protesters were throwing rocks and at least one gas bomb at him, but he said neither he nor anyone on the roof with him retaliated.


"Did you feel that by these people throwing rocks at you or throwing a gas bomb at you that you were in danger?" Binger asked.


Black, 20, replied, "I mean pain, yes, but not danger. I knew it wasn't going to kill me."


"So, you felt like it wasn't enough to use deadly force?" Binger asked.


"Correct," answered Black, who has pleaded not guilty to two counts of intentionally giving a dangerous weapon to a person under the age of 18, causing death, and is scheduled to go on trial in January.


Under cross-examination from Richards, Black said that during the protest he witnessed Rittenhouse providing first aid to injured protesters and confirmed that he told investigators "the only person I saw helping anyone was Kyle."


The trial is scheduled to last a little over two weeks. Twenty jurors were chosen to hear the case, and 12 will be picked at the end of the evidence portion of the trial to decide Rittenhouse's fate.


https://abcnews.go.com/US/kyle-ritte...ry?id=80921728

----------


## Backspin

> Get Beaten up by somebody, and you’re a victim.
> 
> 
> Get shot and killed by someone with an assault rifle, and you’re complaining witness.


You totally left the part out about the "victim" trying to wrestle the assault weapon out of someone's hand !

Getting hit by a car because you were attempting a car jacking is the proper comparison

----------


## harrybarracuda

Is it just me or is it in the interests of the bloke who sold him the weapon to see him get off so he can say in his own trial "see, it didn't do any harm?".

----------


## Backspin

> But Binger told the jurors that the fatal face-off started minutes earlier when Rittenhouse chased an unarmed protester, Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and shot him four times, including a fatal shot to the back


 :smiley laughing: 

What. The. Fuck. So they start things off with a complete lie. We can see the camera footage. Rosenbaum chases Rittenhouse. Fact. We can all see it. So enough of the bullshit

----------


## Backspin

> Wait your turn. I’m still waiting for my “rough audio”


So you are denying that Rosenbaum verbally threatened to kill Rittenhouse that night ? Just bc i cant find the footage ?

From link on post 365 

*Rosenbaum had threatened to kill Rittenhouse and others*

----------


## Backspin

> "Mr. Rosenbaum is ultimately the individual who lit the fuse that  night," said Richards, who -- during a hearing out of the presence of  the jury -- claimed Rosenbaum *was discharged from a hospital that day  after allegedly attempting suicide*.


That is going to work in the defenses favor. Only someone who is suicidal, will try and steal a loaded gun from an individual.

----------


## beachbound

> cant find the footage


I’ll settle for that “rough audio“. 


 :smiley laughing: 




> this is textbook self-defense
> 
> 
> 
> That’s going to work in the defenses favor


Teach us more about the law, Perry Mason.
 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Troy

> You totally left the part out about the "victim" trying to wrestle the assault weapon out of someone's hand !


Possibly because it didn't happen. He made a lunge for the rifle but that's as far as he got. 

You are prone to exaggerating the events, which gives the perception of being deliberately provocative to other posters. 

A pity because it is an interesting case and you might get a better response if you just stick to the facts. 


I am looking forward to the testimony of reporter Richard McGinnis who was close by when the first shooting occurred and who was fired upon by Kyle R after he had shot and killed his first victim. I think he will be the key witness who will provide further details about how there was a shot that triggered Kyle R to stop and turn to defend himself. He will also provide details of the proximity of Rosenbaum and his lunge for the riflle, which caused Kyle R to shoot him.

I don't think the actual events are in dispute though. The question is was Kyle Rittenhouse the provocateur because he was carrying an assault rifle and causing a disturbance of the peace by his mere presence in the area. That is, Rosenbaum's behaviour was as a direct result of the provocative nature of a young kid's presence in the area with an assault rifle. If this is proved to be the case then Kyle R cannot claim self defence. 

Being frightened is not a good enough reason for shooting someone. 

Verbal abuse is not a good enough reason for shooting someone.#

Someone lunging for your rifle barrel is not a good enough reason for shooting someone.

That's just my opinion, but the jury may feel differently.

----------


## Edmond

> Someone lunging for your rifle barrel is not a good enough reason for shooting someone.


_Location: In the EU_


This happened in Merka.  :Smile: 



Things are kinda different thurr.

----------


## beachbound

^ 
Yet _you_ speculate

----------


## helge

> That is, Rosenbaum's behaviour was as a direct result of the provocative nature of a young kid's presence in the area with an assault rifle


Would provoke me aswell
To leave



> Being frightened is not a good enough reason for shooting someone.


 :Smile: 

Now you are being silly
This is America



> Someone lunging for your rifle barrel is not a good enough reason for shooting someone.


Hmm
It's certainly legal if you are working for the guys with the "violence monopoly".


Did the autopsy reveal what Rosenbaum was "on" apart from an urge to go join the riots ?


Rittenhouse is a jerk, young, mislead with a poor upbringing, who needs correction.

I doubt that he will be sentenced for the killings.

We'll see





> That's just my opinion


Yep

That's all we got

Other posters should take that ad notam

----------


## Backspin

> Possibly because it didn't happen. He made a lunge for the rifle but that's as far as he got. 
> 
> You are prone to exaggerating the events, which gives the perception of being deliberately provocative to other posters. 
> 
> A pity because it is an interesting case and you might get a better response if you just stick to the facts. 
> 
> 
> I am looking forward to the testimony of reporter Richard McGinnis who was close by when the first shooting occurred and who was fired upon by Kyle R after he had shot and killed his first victim. I think he will be the key witness who will provide further details about how there was a shot that triggered Kyle R to stop and turn to defend himself. He will also provide details of the proximity of Rosenbaum and his lunge for the riflle, which caused Kyle R to shoot him.
> 
> ...





> Possibly because it didn't happen. He made a lunge for the rifle but that's as far as he got.


If you are conceding with "he made a lunge for the rifle" then the case is closed. You are trying to imply ambiguity that does not exist. 




> Rosenbaum and his lunge for the riflle


Again, case closed. 




> I don't think the actual events are in dispute though. The question is  was Kyle Rittenhouse the provocateur because he was carrying an assault  rifle and causing a disturbance of the peace by his mere presence in the  area.


That has already been covered. Its irrelevant. 

Read more: Can Use Of Illegally Carried Gun Harm Claim Of Self-Defense? LOSD Question of the Week 
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution 
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

Classic Self-Defense: Illegal Weapon Should Not Matter
From a classical self-defense perspective, whether the weapon used in  self-defense is lawfully possessed doesn’t really matter. The five core  elements of self-defense – innocence, imminence, proportionality,  avoidance, and reasonableness – don’t make any reference whatever to the legality or illegality of one’s defensive weapon.

----------


## Backspin

> Someone lunging for your rifle barrel is not a good enough reason for shooting someone..


That is a false. 




> That's just my opinion, but the jury may feel differently.


It is but even for this discussion, its not really an argument. Let alone a defense in a courtroom.

----------


## panama hat

> the case is closed






> Again, case closed.




All this time Backspit kept from us that he is actually a legal professional of some renown instead of a meth-head . . . Socal Backspit, LLB (Worldwide)

----------


## beachbound

> That is a false. 
> 
> 
> It is but even for this discussion, its not really an argument. Let alone a defense in a courtroom.


Yo Perry Mason, where exactly did you get your law degree? Perhaps if you threw in a few legal terms, you come across a little more knowledgeable, instead of sounding like an idiot talking out of your ass. 


Did you ever locate that “rough audio”?   

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## beachbound

> All this time Backspit kept from us that he is actually a legal professional of some renown instead of a meth-head . . . Socal Backspit, LLB (Worldwide)


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## AntRobertson

> Getting hit by a car because you were attempting a car jacking is the proper comparison


Except in your analogy that car would've just been driven down a sidewalk by an unlicensed child and killed someone.

You plank.

----------


## Hugh Cow

I cant believe some of these posts trying to justify murder. A 17 year old walking around in public with an assault rifle? Have Americans gone insane? How you can call that justifiable complete with the actions of a supposed mother is beyond belief.
Oh and just for balance Ant. 
You did forget to mention the unarmed innocent white Australian woman who was shot and killed by a black police officer after SHE had placed a 911 call over a possible rape behind her home. No demonstrations, lootings or riots as I recall after her murder and no riots fires etc when the said officer was jailed for less than 5 years. She was also not a violent career criminal who broke into pregnant women's homes and threatened them with a gun either.

Former Minneapolis police officer who shot and killed unarmed Australian woman Justine Damond sentenced to 57 months in jail - ABC News

----------


## Edmond

> Have Americans gone insane?


Let's just say their educational system, society, news and politics are ...... "interesting".  :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> Let's just say their educational system, society, news and politics are ...... "interesting".


OI!  I'm a product of the US Elementary and Tertiary post-grad system!!!!  :Mad: 


Oh . . .  :Sad:

----------


## AntRobertson

the Judge in the Rittenhouse case took a break during the trial to complain about CNN's coverage of his rulings.

This is farcical.

----------


## nidhogg

> the Judge in the Rittenhouse case took a break during the trial to complain about CNN's coverage of his rulings.
> 
> This is farcical.


Apparently he was quoting from the bible earlier.  Interesting approach....

----------


## Edmond

> Apparently he was quoting from the bible earlier.





> took a break during the trial to complain about CNN's coverage of his rulings.




500 baht he goes all Sammy-J on 'em.




_#wouldn't.be.surprised_

----------


## AntRobertson

> Apparently he was quoting from the bible earlier.  Interesting approach....


He's an interesting character to say the least.  

He claims to have never heard of the Proud Boys and claims that he only ever encountered "O.K." hand sign co-opted by white supremacists on can of spaghetti...  :Confused:

----------


## Backspin

> I cant believe some of these posts trying to justify murder. *A 17 year old walking around in public with an assault rifle?* Have Americans gone insane? How you can call that justifiable complete with the actions of a supposed mother is beyond belief.
> Oh and just for balance Ant. 
> You did forget to mention the unarmed innocent white Australian woman who was shot and killed by a black police officer after SHE had placed a 911 call over a possible rape behind her home. No demonstrations, lootings or riots as I recall after her murder and no riots fires etc when the said officer was jailed for less than 5 years. She was also not a violent career criminal who broke into pregnant women's homes and threatened them with a gun either.
> 
> Former Minneapolis police officer who shot and killed unarmed Australian woman Justine Damond sentenced to 57 months in jail - ABC News


Have you even watched any of the footage ? Do you even know what happened ? 

Obviously you didn't or if you did, you are delusional. 

Do you have any idea how many guns were on the scene ? Look ! This is a still shot at the has station. 7 different ppl with guns. And watch the video. People from Rosenbaums side start flashing guns as the video goes on. And you are comparing this to Australia  :rofl: 



https://www.bitchute.com/video/Iy9epcyVM32T/

----------


## AntRobertson

> Do you have any idea how many guns were on the scene ? Look ! This is a still shot at the has station. 7 different ppl with guns. And watch the video. People from Rosenbaums side start flashing guns as the video goes on. And you are comparing this to Australia


I feel that your vociferous support of Rittenhouse is down to an affinity for a fellow scared little boy pretending to be a man and failing.

That and an inability to grasp or deal with any facts that aren't convenient to your narrative.

----------


## Backspin

> Did you ever locate that “rough audio”?


Yes actually. I just did. Its on Bitchute. The link is right here. His freind yells "you wont do shit motherfucker" then Rosenbaum yells "fuck you !" as he chases after him.

Never-before-seen FBI video of the shooting involving Kyle Rittenhouse

----------


## Backspin

Here's some new footage that was just released 9 hours ago.  Never-before-seen FBI video of the shooting involving Kyle Rittenhouse It shows a birds eye view of the whole thing, Rittenhouse running away and Rosenbaum closing in on him and lunging for his weapon.

Here is the exact moment that Rosenbaum lunges at him to attempt to get the weapon. And for good measure we have subtitles of what Rosenbaum was yelling that beachbound think didn't happen.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I feel that your vociferous support of Rittenhouse is down to an affinity for a fellow scared little boy pretending to be a man and failing.


 :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:

----------


## aging one

Not many people would spend days searching the internet trying to justify a murder. But you have Skiddy. Going all the way back to when he was first arrested you have been pulling for this piece of shit.  In reality he reminds you of yourself. A loser that would have to resort  to bringing an assault rifle in order to attend a rally.  Freaking sad case you are.

----------


## Edmond

> Rosenbaum yells "fuck you !" as he chases after him.
> 
> Rittenhouse running away and Rosenbaum closing in on him and lunging for his weapon.


.....




> Mr. Huffy-Puffy went looking for it, got exactly what he was looking for from an adolescent he was assaulting during a gun-shooting riot (while trying to steal his gun).
> 
> 
> Betas (and probably vegans) around the world cry murder!!

----------


## Backspin

> Not many people would spend days searching the internet trying to justify a murder.


You either have no idea what happened or you are simply delusional and haven't the faintest concept of self defense laws. And/or you are a cuck

----------


## aging one

> You either have no idea what happened or you are simply delusional and haven't the faintest concept of self defense laws. And/or you are a cuck


Is that the best you can do?  Weak very weak indeed.

----------


## Edmond

> trying to justify a murder.


Nobody was murdered.

----------


## aging one

> Nobody was murdered.


hmmm.....

What Is Kyle Rittenhouse Charged With? - The New York Times

COUNT 1
*First-degree reckless homicide*Under Wisconsin law, this crime is defined as recklessly causing the death of another human being under circumstances that show utter disregard for human life. It is not necessary for prosecutors to prove intent to kill. (Charges that are generally known as murder counts in other states are called homicides under Wisconsin law.)
Mr. Rittenhouse is accused of this crime in connection with the fata shooting of Joseph D. Rosenbaum. It is a Class B felony carrying a basic sentence of up to 60 years in prison.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Nobody was murdered.


*ATTENTION US LEGAL SYSTEM*

Please stop, Scoop here has declared the outcome, no need to continue with the trial.

Please release Kyle and drop all the homicide charges.

Thank you.

----------


## Troy

So:
 "Let's kill the motherfucker!" Was in fact "Fuck you".
And
Wrestling the rifle from Kyle was in fact throwing a plastic bag and making a lunge for him.

Scared boy that should have stayed at home instead of provoking violence by his presence.

----------


## panama hat

> haven't the faintest concept of self defense laws


Again, your LLB is from what university?






> So:
> "Let's kill the motherfucker!" Was in fact "Fuck you".
> And
> Wrestling the rifle from Kyle was in fact throwing a plastic bag and making a lunge for him.


Yup, typical Skidmark - lies, deflects, obfuscates and declares himself right

Every 

Single 

Time

----------


## happynz

> Nobody was murdered.


Excuse me? Two people died by another person's action. Are you suggesting manslaughter?

----------


## Edmond

> hmmm.....
> 
> What Is Kyle Rittenhouse Charged With? - The New York Times


And when he's cleared of the charge, the fatalities will have been shown to have been killed in self-defense. :-) No murders took place. :-)





> Two people died by another person's action.


Same as a car crash on the news yesterday. 

No murder happened there either.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Nobody was murdered.





> And when he's cleared of the charge, the fatalities will have been shown to have been killed in self-defense. :-) No murders took place. :-)


Kinda shit as a walkback but whatevs.




> Excuse me? Two people died by another person's action. Are you suggesting manslaughter?


I doubt he sincerely believes something so ludicrous at this point and is more motivated by seeing socal's success in trolling this thread and wants some of the action.

Which is somehow worse?

 :Dunno:

----------


## Edmond

> Kinda shit as a walkback but whatevs.


You've trained as a lawyer, a charge of (and trial for) murder doesn't mean somebody was murdered. :-)

----------


## AntRobertson

> You've trained as a lawyer, a charge of (and trial for) murder doesn't mean somebody was murdered. :-)


Don't have to be trained as anything to know that proclaiming there was no murder midst an ongoing trial doesn't mean anything.

 :Dunno:

----------


## aging one

Eddie, you should have used "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law", then at least we would know you watch Cops therefore making you an expert in the law.  Much easier for you to argue your position that way.

----------


## Samuel

It's a homicide (killing)  not murder  unless he's convicted. 





> Murder - Wikipedia
> 
> Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human with malice a forethought.

----------


## AntRobertson

> It's a homicide (killing) — not murder — unless he's convicted.


All the legal scoop scholars are coming out of the woodwork.




> hom·i·cide/ˈhäməˌsīd/
> 
> noun North American
> 
> 
> the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder.
> "he was charged with homicide"

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It's a homicide (killing) — not murder — unless he's convicted.


Well it's stating the fucking obvious to say he's not guilty of anything until found guilty.

----------


## Edmond

> not murder — unless he's convicted.


Yes. 

If the killer is not convicted of murder, the deceased was not murdered. 


Anyway, now that we all agree on that, what Fawlty Towers-esque comedy scenes are on-going in the trial?  :Smile: 







> Well it's stating the fucking obvious to say he's not guilty of anything until found guilty.


Sometimes Ant and AO need the obvious explained to them.

----------


## AntRobertson

> I doubt he sincerely believes something so ludicrous at this point and is more motivated by seeing socal's success in trolling this thread and wants some of the action.





> Sometimes Ant and AO need the obvious explained to them.


_Q.E.D._

People are dead, socal and lulu are filling their boots.




> If





> Nobody was murdered.


Keep backtracking.

----------


## aging one

> Sometimes Ant and AO need the obvious explained to them.


Nah you are just defensive over your omelet getting panned. Plus whats up with the reading comprehension?





> Eddie, you should have used "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law",

----------


## happynz

> Same as a car crash on the news yesterday.
> 
> No murder happened there either.


It was an accident?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You've trained as a lawyer, a charge of (and trial for) murder doesn't mean somebody was murdered. :-)


Neither does it mean they were not, numbnuts. That's the point of a fucking trial.

----------


## Edmond

> a fucking trial.


At the fucking end of the fucking trial the fucking legal system will fucking rule that he's fucking not guilty of fucking murder, Pottymouth.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> At the fucking end of the fucking trial the fucking legal system will fucking rule that he's fucking not guilty of fucking murder, Pottymouth.



Well no it fucking won't actually. It will rule that they can fucking prove or not prove him guilty of fucking murder.|

You've heard of Nicole Simpson, right? Would you agree that she was murdered?

 :Smile:

----------


## bsnub

> At the fucking end of the fucking trial the fucking legal system will fucking rule that he's fucking not guilty of fucking murder, Pottymouth.


Funny, but you and socalled were saying the same thing about  Derek Chauvin, who was found guilty of murder, both of you bleating on in that thread the same as in this one. Interesting the sides you find yourself on.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Troy

Self defence is still murder, it's just justifiable murder.

----------


## nidhogg

I really cannot understand why some of you (especially Atticus "backspit" Finch) get so damn bent out of shape on all this.  The American legal system (note I avoid describing it as a "justice system") is a crap shoot.

In the end it will come down to the "fine" point of whether what Rittenhouse did was seen by 12 jurors as "provocative" or not, and will really have f*ck all to do with "justice".  But either way life, somehow will go on.  
















Well, except for those he gunned down like dogs of course.

----------


## cisco999

This video seems  to be less agenda laden.

The last I knew vigilantism is illegal in the USA.


Forgot to add, Kyle didn't even have the required gun license to own the weapon he possessed.

----------


## harrybarracuda

He's going to get found guilty on at least one of the charges and will come out of prison with an arsehole like Cheddar Gorge.

So there's that.   *






* That might be what's getting skidmark so excited.

----------


## nidhogg

> Kyle didn't even have the required gun license to own the weapon he possessed.


He did not.  he was too young to possess that gun.

----------


## bsnub

> Forgot to add, Kyle didn't even have the required gun license to own the weapon he possessed.


You do not need a license to own a long gun in the US. 




> He did not. he was too young to possess that gun.


Are you sure about that? You can buy long guns at the age of 18.

----------


## nidhogg

> You do not need a license to own a long gun in the US. 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure about that? You can buy long guns at the age of 18.


pretty sure he was 17....

----------


## beachbound

> Yes actually. I just did. Its on Bitchute. The link is right here. His freind yells "you wont do shit motherfucker" then Rosenbaum yells "fuck you !" as he chases after him.
> 
> Never-before-seen FBI video of the shooting involving Kyle Rittenhouse




Still waiting on the “raw audio”, of the victim yelling
 “ let’s kill this motherfucker!“


You know you’re desperate when you’re relying on BitChute to try to prove your point. 

*BitChute is a video hosting service launched by Ray Vahey in January 2017. It is known for accommodating far-right individuals and conspiracy theorists, and for hosting hate speech. Some creators who use BitChute have been banned from YouTube; some others crosspost content to both platforms or post more extreme content only to BitChute. BitChute claims to use peer-to-peer WebTorrent technology for video distribution, though this has been disputed.*

----------


## bsnub

> Yes actually. I just did. Its on Bitchute.





> *BitChute* is a video hosting service launched by Ray Vahey in January 2017.[1] It is known for accommodating far-right individuals and conspiracy theorists, and for hosting hate speech.[a][b] Some creators who use BitChute have been banned from YouTube; some others crosspost content to both platforms or post more extreme content only to BitChute.[2][15] BitChute claims to use peer-to-peer WebTorrent technology for video distribution,[1] though this has been disputed.


 ::chitown::

----------


## sabang

> _Are you sure about that? You can buy long guns at the age of 18._


What age do you have to be to buy an AK47?  ::chitown::

----------


## bsnub

> What age do you have to be to buy an AK47?


18 to buy a semi-automatic AK and only a background check needed.

----------


## Troy

AR-15 style (semi-auto not auto).

Was he carrying it loaded and cocked? 

Well, the US is certainly strange to allow such behaviour during a curfew. Apparently the police barred him from re-entering the area he was supposed to be guarding. That's the time he should have walked away and gone home.

I've known armed forces  guys who were not allowed to fire when in more danger....

----------


## bsnub

> Was he carrying it loaded and cocked?


Almost assuredly. All American law enforcement carry that way. That said you do not cock an AR-15 you chamber a round, and it is ready to fire. If you are well-trained, then you apply the safety. 




> I've known armed forces guys who were not allowed to fire when in more danger....


Welcome to AmeriKKKa.

----------


## aging one

> 18 to buy a semi-automatic AK and only a background check needed.


Fuck me and he cant even buy alcohol until he is 21.  JHC.

----------


## Troy

^^ Hammer is cocked when you chamber a round so same difference. If he had it unchambered then just cocking it would scare the shit out of any normal person.

----------


## bsnub

> Fuck me and he cant even buy alcohol until he is 21. JHC.


In America you can not stop the stupid. We have to deal with morons like FaRT.

----------


## Headworx

> AR-15 style (semi-auto not auto).


I've been told by people who'd know that to turn a semi-auto AR-15 into a full-auto is quite simple. Then there's bump-stock which is new to me, but does pretty much the same thing turning AR-15's into machine guns from what I've seen. I find this sort of thing both fascinating and incredibly alarming at the same time.

----------


## Backspin

> Still waiting on the raw audio, of the victim yelling
>   lets kill this motherfucker!
> 
> 
> You know youre desperate when youre relying on BitChute to try to prove your point. 
> 
> *BitChute is a video hosting service launched by Ray Vahey in January 2017. It is known for accommodating far-right individuals and conspiracy theorists, and for hosting hate speech. Some creators who use BitChute have been banned from YouTube; some others crosspost content to both platforms or post more extreme content only to BitChute. BitChute claims to use peer-to-peer WebTorrent technology for video distribution, though this has been disputed.*


So you think it was  a faked story because it was on Bitchute
 Ok. 

Well here is MSN news and CNN reporting the exact same thing. :rofl:  But YouTube won't allow you to see it. So I had to go to bitchute

Kyle Rittenhouse trial: New FBI aerial surveillance video shows never-before-seen actions before teen shot 3 people

----------


## Backspin

> So:
>  "Let's kill the motherfucker!" Was in fact "Fuck you".
> And
> Wrestling the rifle from Kyle was in fact throwing a plastic bag and making a lunge for him.
> 
> Scared boy that should have stayed at home instead of provoking violence by his presence.


Nope. It's a fact that Rosenbaum made a death threat to Rittenhouse. Just bc I can't find the full clip doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Now you are knowingly conflating 2 different things. The rioters were making smoke bombs out of plastic bags that day. Rosenbaum hurls one toward Rittehouse and then chases him down by foot and lunges to get the weapon.

----------


## Backspin

> This video seems  to be less agenda laden.
> 
> The last I knew vigilantism is illegal in the USA.
> 
> 
> Forgot to add, Kyle didn't even have the required gun license to own the weapon he possessed.


The legality of the gun is irrelevant in a self defense case 

Classic Self-Defense: Illegal Weapon Should Not Matter
From a classical self-defense perspective, whether the weapon used in self-defense is lawfully possessed doesnt really matter. The five core elements of self-defense  innocence, imminence, proportionality, avoidance, and reasonableness  dont make any reference whatever to the legality or illegality of ones defensive weapon.


Reply

----------


## Troy

So you think it's reasonable for Kyle Rittenhouse to break curfew and walk around a city with a loaded assault rifle during a riot.

You don't think for a second that such action might increase tension rather than reduce it.

----------


## beachbound

> Nope. It's a fact that Rosenbaum made a death threat to Rittenhouse.


Zero proof that Rosenbaum threatened Rittenhouse’s life. And even if he did, a verbal threat does not justify killing an unarmed man. 






> Just bc I can't find the full clip doesn't mean it didn't happen.


Keep digging, backspit. I’m sure that “rough audio” is out there somewhere. 
 :smiley laughing:

----------


## beachbound

> So you think it was  a faked story because it was on Bitchute.



This is how BitSchute describes the incident. _Your_ news source, Backspit. 

*Kyle Rittenhouse, 17 year-old boy from Antioch, Illinois, was arrested after he allegedly shot and killed pedophile Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and criminal Anthony Huber, 26, and injured another criminal Gaige Grosskreutz, 26, during the riots in Kenosha, Wisconsin, following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on August 13, last year.*

----------


## Backspin

> So you think it's reasonable for Kyle Rittenhouse to break curfew and walk around a city with a loaded assault rifle during a riot.
> 
> You don't think for a second that such action might increase tension rather than reduce it.



There were hundreds of ppl on the streets with guns on both sides. The rioters and protesters were breaking curfew too.

----------


## Backspin

On Tuesday, prosecutor had called FBI techniican  Brandon Cramin, whom they had asked not be shown on camera, "because of  sensitive issues related to his employment." 
Cramin,  appearing in the courtroom with an FBI lawyer, testified he was in an  airplane 8,500 feet above downtown Kenosha on Aug. 25, 2020 taking video  with a special infrared camera. 

In a short, aggressive cross-examination, defense attorney Mark Richards  pressed Cramin for details about the camera's resolution and other  technical aspects of the operation that Cramin said he didn't know.


Binger argued the plane's tail number was  irrelevant. Richards said the defense needs it to refine its records  request from FBI, which has so far rebuffed its attempts to "the rest"  of the video, at one point telling them it *no longer exists.*

"I  can't believe the FBI is doing surveillance of multiple homicides and  gets rid of the video. That's preposterous," Richards said.




Is FBI withholding aerial footage from Kyle Rittenhouse defense team?^The surveillance technician said the rest of the HD tape "no longer exists". Which means that it did exist.

----------


## Backspin

> Zero proof that Rosenbaum threatened Rittenhouse’s life. And even if he did, a verbal threat does not justify killing an unarmed man.


Rosenbaum did threaten Rittenhouses life. It was in the minutes yesterday 

Found it

Rittenhouse trial begins as prosecutor tells jury 'tourists were drawn to the chaos' of Kenosha | Daily Mail Online

*'Testimony* *will* show that Rosenbaum said *'If* *I* get either of you two alone, I'll *kill* *you,''* said defense attorney Mark Richards, describing the moment Rosenbaum confronted *Rittenhouse* and a friend.

----------


## misskit

*Juror in Kyle Rittenhouse trial removed over joke about Jacob Blake shooting*

The judge presiding over the Kyle Rittenhouse trial has dismissed a juror who joked with a courtroom deputy about why Kenosha, Wisconsin, police shot Jacob Blake — the incident that prompted the protests that led to Rittenhouse shooting three people, killing two of them.


Prosecutors said the juror asked a courtroom deputy, "Why did the Kenosha police shoot Jacob Blake seven times? Because they ran out of bullets," saying the joke shows poor taste, and showed racial bias, CBS Chicago reports.


The judge questioned that juror, asking the juror to repeat the joke, but he wouldn't do so, and the judge removed him from the jury.


Judge Bruce Schroeder said it was important to maintain public confidence in the case, and removing the juror was necessary. That leaves a 19-person jury for the trial — 12 primary jurors and seven alternates.


Rittenhouse is accused of shooting three people, killing two, during protests in Kenosha. The trial is expected to last two to three weeks.  

Juror in Kyle Rittenhouse trial removed over joke about Jacob Blake shooting - CBS News

----------


## misskit

*FBI’s controversial protest surveillance plane footage to be used in Kyle Rittenhouse trial*

Prosecutors are using never-seen-before footage FBI aeroplane surveillance, which they claim shows the movements of Kyle Rittenhouse before he killed two people.


Rittenhouse, 18, is charged with killing two white men and wounding another during a Wisconsin protest, following the police shooting of 29-year-old Black man Jacob Blake in August 2020.


When he was 17 years old, Kyle Rittenhouse broke an 8pm curfew imposed by city officials to travel from his house in Illinois to Kenosha, Wisconsin. He was responding to a plea on social media to protect neighbourhoods in the area.

*Prosecutors will attempt to show through infra-red footage shot at 9,000 feet that Rittenhouse chased Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, first, which would weaken Rittenhouse’s self-defence claims that he was being chased by Rosenbaum, who was unarmed. The video shows people as grainy small dots, it does not identify people clearly by sight.*


Although controversial, aerial surveillance is not unusual at high-profile demonstrations. A number of Black Lives Matter protests were monitored by law enforcement in May 2020, including those in California, Washington DC, Minnesota and Arizona. Police aeroplane surveillance was also used during the “Unite the Right rally” in Charlottesville, Virginia, 2017, at which white supremacist James Alex Fields Jr sped his car into a group of counter-protesters, killing one person and injuring 35.

Taking aerial surveillance of people in public places is legal, but extended surveillance of one person is illegal. Critics say that surveillance breaches freedom and privacy, as it could result in authorities building information on an individual’s movements.


Mr Rittenhouse has pleaded not guilty to seven charges, including intentional homicide, reckless homicide, and recklessly endangering safety. His defence team is arguing self-defence.


Bystander footage captures Mr Rittenhouse being chased before shooting Joseph Rosenbaum. He then runs from the scene and falls, a number of people approach him. He is struck in the head with a skateboard by Anthony Huber, 26, Rittenhouse shoots Huber, and he dies from his wounds.


After being approached by Gaige Grosskreutz, 27, who is carrying a firearm, Mr Rittenhouse shoots Mr Grosskreutz, wounding him in the arm.


Mr Rittenhouse's $2m (£1.5m) bail fund, plus his legal defence fund were crowdfunded online.

FBI’s controversial protest surveillance plane footage to be used in Kyle Rittenhouse trial

----------


## beachbound

> Rosenbaum did threaten Rittenhouses Life
> 
> Found it
> 
> 
> said defense attorney Mark Richards



Well, if the defense attorney said it happened…….

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Troy

> There were hundreds of ppl on the streets with guns on both sides. The rioters and protesters were breaking curfew too.


However, they weren't stupid enough to kill anyone were they

----------


## Edmond

> Rittenhouse, 18, is charged with killing two white men


Can you imagine if Ritt-Hozy was black.  :Smile: 


A few of the 'Murder!' posters would be on a shouty Greta-esque campaign of self defense.  :Smile:

----------


## beachbound

> Can you imagine if Ritt-Hozy was black.


Can you imagine if you came up with an original thought?

----------


## Edmond

> Can you imagine if you came up with an original thought?


Currently thinking of melted down fruitloops on toast, dipped in a boiled vegemite mars bar dip.

----------


## Troy

> Can you imagine if Ritt-Hozy was black. 
> 
> 
> A few of the 'Murder!' posters would be on a shouty Greta-esque campaign of self defense.


It wouldn't make the slightest difference to my view. 

The sooner the US catches up with the rest of the Western world and bans guns the better. This case shows what can happen when anyone is allowed to wander the streets with one.

Time for the US to grow up.

----------


## beachbound

> Currently thinking of melted down fruitloops on toast, dipped in a boiled vegemite mars bar dip.


I stand corrected. Totally unappealing, but original.

----------


## beachbound

> The sooner the US catches up with the rest of the Western world and bans guns the better.


Not in our lifetime, unfortunately.

Perhaps it’s time to implement Chris Rock’s idea of bullet control.

----------


## bsnub

Both lulu and skiddy banged on like this for months, saying the same shit in the Derrick Chauvin thread. Skiddy posted up the same type of alt-reich nonsense over in that thread. Both of them stopped posting over there after he was found guilty.  :Smile:

----------


## beachbound

^
Was there missing “raw audio” on that case, too?  :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> Was there missing raw audio on that case, too?


It's gone.  The Euro-Police and CIA deleted it


> It's a cunsp... Umm, a consperesee... Errr, a corspriacee

----------


## AntRobertson

> [...]
> 
> You don't think for a second [...]


Apologies, however I have taken the liberty of deleting the superfluous parts of that post.

It is socal we're talking about after all.

----------


## Backspin

> Both lulu and skiddy banged on like this for months, saying the same shit in the Derrick Chauvin thread. Skiddy posted up the same type of alt-reich nonsense over in that thread. Both of them stopped posting over there after he was found guilty.



So you think you are going to win them all now ?

----------


## bsnub

> So you think you are going to win them all now ?


It is not about winning, you scumbag. It is about justice for two young people who were gunned down by a right-wing terrorist.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Have you even watched any of the footage ? Do you even know what happened ? 
> 
> Obviously you didn't or if you did, you are delusional. 
> 
> Do you have any idea how many guns were on the scene ? Look ! This is a still shot at the has station. 7 different ppl with guns. And watch the video. People from Rosenbaums side start flashing guns as the video goes on. And you are comparing this to Australia 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bitchute.com/video/Iy9epcyVM32T/


Where did you get the Australian comparison from? The crime in which an australian woman was murdered happened in the U.S. Are you unable to read? 
To think I felt sorry for you just because you are obviously a retard with learning difficulties.
The only qualification that seems to be a prerequisite of the American far right gun totin' club is a labotomy.

----------


## Backspin

> It is not about winning, you scumbag. It is about justice for two young people who were gunned down by a right-wing terrorist.


It's about winning or losing. You can get all high and mighty about the US "justice" system all you want. OJ Simpson , Casey Anthony and Derek Chauvin showed that the system is a joke.

----------


## AntRobertson

> It's about winning or losing.





> Both lulu and skiddy banged on like this for months, saying the same shit in the Derrick Chauvin thread. Skiddy posted up the same type of alt-reich nonsense over in that thread. Both of them stopped posting over there after he was found guilty.


So.... you're a loser then.

----------


## aging one

> Originally Posted by Backspin 
> It's about winning or losing.


Yup, to you. You are now swimming upstream in rapids as you initially said Rittenhouse would never be indicted. He was.  Now he is going to go down. Loser's support loser's.

On a side not why do you once again have a fake repo showing? Does obscuring the truth make you feel better?

----------


## Backspin

> This is how BitSchute describes the incident. _Your_ news source, Backspit. 
> 
> *Kyle Rittenhouse, 17 year-old boy from Antioch, Illinois, was arrested after he allegedly shot and killed pedophile Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and criminal Anthony Huber, 26, and injured another criminal Gaige Grosskreutz, 26, during the riots in Kenosha, Wisconsin, following the police shooting of Jacob Blake on August 13, last year.*


Just to be sure , you are aware that all of this is factually true right ?

-Joseph Rosenbaum is a convicted pedophile.

-Jonathan Huber is a convicted criminal 

So is the author of the video supposed to whitewash this or wtf are you even getting at ?

----------


## beachbound

^ 
No reputable news outlet would ever print that shit, and the fact that you’re trying to justify it, makes you look like even more of an ass.

----------


## Backspin

> ^ 
> No reputable news outlet would ever print that shit, and the fact that you’re trying to justify it, makes you look like even more of an ass.



You are just losing your mind or something. First off, Bitchute is just a video hosting site. And the video was uploaded and titled by an individual person.

Second, there are lots of headlines that read the same way but "reputable" news like CNN



Richard Huckle: One of Britain's worst pedophiles found dead in prison - CNN

----------


## Edmond

> Both lulu and skiddy banged on like this for months, saying the same shit in the Derrick Chauvin thread. Both of them stopped posting over there after he was found guilty.


Derek.

Your incorrect spelling is closer to being correct than the rest of your post, though.  :Smile: 


Thankfully no one on here would be simple-brained enough to actually take your post at face value, and base a personal attack on it.

----------


## AntRobertson

> It's about winning or losing


Imagine backing a loser with another loser and then trolling another thread about another loser with that same loser... double or triple loser? 

I dunno I've lost count!  :Very Happy:

----------


## Edmond

> Now he is going to go down.


This is getting kinda fun.

There should be money or a dare involved.  :Smile: 






> Loser's support loser's.


There needs to be a movement. "Apostrofeees Support Apostrofeees" or something.

----------


## Samuel

Thai’s support Thai’s — he has posted this hundreds of times, over the years.

----------


## beachbound

> Second, there are lots of headlines that read the same way but "reputable" news like CNN
> 
> 
> Richard Huckle: One of Britain's worst pedophiles found dead in prison - CNN




I'm too tired to explain the difference, and you're too damn stupid to understand.

----------


## Troy

> Just to be sure , you are aware that all of this is factually true right ?
> 
> -Joseph Rosenbaum is a convicted pedophile.
> 
> -Jonathan Huber is a convicted criminal 
> 
> So is the author of the video supposed to whitewash this or wtf are you even getting at ?


Let's get this straight, you are now supporting vigilante killings of criminals. Perhaps anyone you might think is a criminal...Hell, everyone was breaking curfew so fair game, he should have killed more.

Clearly you haven't thought this through...

----------


## panama hat

> Clearly you haven't thought this through...


 :rofl:  No shit, Sherlock.  Backsit thinking anything through . . .  :rofl:

----------


## Troy

The problem is it is not just Backspin. A large percentage of Americans think Kyle R should be let off under self defence. Such action would open the doors for abuse, especially when it comes to law enforcement agencies.

----------


## nidhogg

> I'm too tired to explain the difference, and you're too damn stupid to understand.


I think this comes under the old "you can explain it to him, but you cannot understand it for him".

----------


## Edmond

> Such action would open the doors for abuse, especially when it comes to law enforcement agencies.


I don't think American law enforcement agencies would ever abuse someone. Their job is to serve and protect all members of the public equally, from harm.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The problem is it is not just Backspin. A large percentage of Americans think Kyle R should be let off under self defence. Such action would open the doors for abuse, especially when it comes to law enforcement agencies.


A large percentage of Americans are poorly educated, racist, gun nuts.

----------


## Cujo

In my opinion there's only one question that needs to be answered to determine whether it was murder or self defense. "was he under attack at the time of the incident"?
The answered is indisputably yes.
I'm  calling self defense, particularly if he was under the impression someone was shooting at him from behind.
If he's found not guilty there'll no doubt be JLM riots.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> In my opinion there's only one question that needs to be answered to determine whether it was murder or self defense. "was he under attack at the time of the incident"?
> The answered is indisputably yes.


Is it fuck.

He turned up armed to a riot with an illegal firearm, someone - an unarmed someone - tried to disarm him so he shot them.

That is equally "undisputable".

----------


## Edmond

> He turned up armed to a riot with an illegal firearm


Doesn't matter to the case in the slightest. :-)





> someone tried to disarm him


Chased him, attacked him, tried to steal his gun while others were firing weapons in the near vicinity.




> so he shot them


Defended his life.

Not guilty. Nobody was murdered. :-)

----------


## AntRobertson

> Defended his life.
> 
> Not guilty. Nobody was murdered. :-)


You missed the part where a kid went to a place he wasn't supposed to be with a gun he wasn't supposed to have and people died as a direct result.

Also your grasp of the legal process and procedure is plumbing socal-like depths at this point, the trolling too.

 :Smile:

----------


## Cujo

> Is it fuck.
> 
> He turned up armed to a riot with an illegal firearm, someone - an unarmed someone - tried to disarm him so he shot them.
> 
> That is equally "undisputable".


Quite. As you say, they attacked him trying to take his gun off him so he shot them. Maybe they shouldn't have done that. Up until then he hadn't fired his weapon.
The person who attacked him and tried to take his gun had no idea at the time it was illegal.

----------


## Edmond

> You missed the part where a kid went to a place he wasn't supposed to be with a gun he wasn't supposed to have


First sentence in my post. :-)

----------


## Edmond

> As you say, they attacked him trying to take his gun off him so he shot them. Maybe they shouldn't have done that. Up until then he hadn't fored his weapon.


They're just trolling, pay no attention to it. :-)

----------


## AntRobertson

> First sentence in my post. :-)


Is irrelevant.

Edmund and socal are the Bevis & Butthead of Harrys and Lloyds.

----------


## nidhogg

At best, a self defense plea may see him skate on the first two - probably not going to fly for the third though.....

----------


## AntRobertson

> Quite. As you say, they attacked him trying to take his gun off him so he shot them. Maybe they shouldn't have done that. Up until then he hadn't fired his weapon.


Drunk driver, someone goes to remove his keys, so he guns it to get away and runs them over killing them in the process, up until then he hadn't done that.

----------


## Cujo

In my opinion he's guilty of manslaughter (insert legal jargon here) not murder.

----------


## Cujo

> Drunk driver, someone goes to remove his keys, so he guns it to get away and runs them over killing them in the process, up until then he hadn't done that.


Hadn't done what? Driven his car drunk?

----------


## AntRobertson

> In my opinion he's guilty of manslaughter (insert legal jargon here) not murder.


Possibly, remains to be seen, but murder requires proving intent. 

And I can't think of many valid reasons why someone arms themselves and goes to somewhere they aren’t supposed to be unless they intended on using the weapon they took.




> Hadn't done what? Driven his car drunk?


Driven over someone and killed them.

----------


## Cujo

Just as Rittenhouse hadn't shot or killed anyone up until then, what's your point?

----------


## Cujo

> Just as Rittenhouse hadn't shot or killed anyone up until then, what's your point?


I don't think he went there with the intent of killing anyone. Just a stupid kid full of youthful bravado

----------


## AntRobertson

> Just as Rittenhouse hadn't shot or killed anyone up until then, what's your point?


Jeezus fuck it wasn't subtle... That he wasn't supposed to be there with a gun so blaming those he shot for trying to disarm him is equivalent to blaming someone for getting run over trying to stop a drunk driver.

In either case neither would've occurred but for the illegal actions of the shooter / driver.




> I don't think he went there with the intent of killing anyone. Just a stupid kid full of youthful bravado


Youthful bravado? Jumping off a cliff into a river on a dare is 'youthful bravado', he was a scared little kid playing out a Rambo-esque fantasy and took a loaded weapon to somewhere he wasn't supposed to be.

No way the deluded little prick wasn't fantasizing about using it.

----------


## Edmond

Pinky and Perky don't even know his charges.  :Very Happy: 


The charges of curfew violation and possessing a firearm as a minor are separate to the more serious charges, and are not to affect their verdict. 


Bless. They're adorable.  :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

> Pinky and Perky don't even know his charges.


I do though.

Edmond is the Lionel Hutz of Rudy Giuliani's.

----------


## Backspin

> The problem is it is not just Backspin. A large percentage of Americans think Kyle R should be let off under self defence. Such action would open the doors for abuse, especially when it comes to law enforcement agencies.


It is a text book example of the existing self defense laws

----------


## Backspin

> Is it fuck.
> 
> He turned up armed to a riot with an illegal firearm, someone - an unarmed someone - tried to disarm him so he shot them.
> 
> That is equally "undisputable".


Hahahaha

It has already been stated in court that Rosenbaum threatened Rittenhouses life verbally that night. And its in the footage somewhere

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Pinky and Perky don't even know his charges. 
> 
> 
> The charges of curfew violation and possessing a firearm as a minor are separate to the more serious charges, and are not to affect their verdict. 
> 
> 
> Bless. They're adorable.


I don't think you understand the charges, let alone the penalties they carry.




> *FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON*


That charge carries a penalty of up to 12 1/2 years. Plenty of time for him to "drop the soap".

Fucking hell, 9 months for illegal possession of a weapon will leave him with a sore arse.

 :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

> I don't think you understand the charges


He has posted himself into a corner to the extent there are certain things he has to do double-pike mental gymnastics shit to ignore.

Bless!  :Very Happy:

----------


## Backspin

The thing is , if this was an Antifa person with the gun and was chased and attacked by a trump supporter , id be saying the exact same thing. But all the other side would  agree that it was self defense. It's all a bunch of sophistry. 

Rosenbaum used the N word that night as well
Kenosha shooting victim seen in video confronting armed men

^.Armed men plural. Because the place was crawling with guns. Yet the sophists keep implying that Rittenhouse was the only one with a gun

----------


## AntRobertson

> The thing is , if this was an Antifa person with the gun and was chased and attacked by a trump supporter , id be saying the exact same thing.


The thing is, I don't think anyone believes that. Not really.

----------


## beachbound

> The thing is , if this was an Antifa person with the gun and was chased and attacked by a trump supporter , id be saying the exact same thing.


Bullshit




> The other side would agree that it was self-defense.


Bullshit




> Rosenbaum used the N word that night as well


Why is that pertinent?





> Armed men plural. Because the place was crawling with guns. Yet Rittenhouse was the only one who murdered anyone


FTFY






> Sophist


Are there any mirrors in your trailer?

----------


## Edmond

> Pinky and Perky don't even know his charges. 
> 
> 
> The charges of curfew violation and possessing a firearm as a minor are separate to the more serious charges, and are not to affect their verdict. 
> 
> 
> Bless. They're adorable.


Good to see they've now been educated. :-)

----------


## AntRobertson

> He has posted himself into a corner to the extent there are certain things he has to do double-pike mental gymnastics shit to ignore.
> 
> Bless!





> Good to see they've now been educated. :-)


It's kinda like watching an animal that has been hit by a car or something and in death throes. 

I mean it sucks, you don't like to see it, but it's still weirdly compelling to see it twitching and desperately clinging to life...

 :Sad:

----------


## Backspin

> Let's get this straight, you are now supporting vigilante killings of criminals. Perhaps anyone you might think is a criminal...Hell, everyone was breaking curfew so fair game, he should have killed more.
> 
> Clearly you haven't thought this through...


No I'm fucking not. Look through the whole thread. I didn't even bring up Rosenbaums criminal past until 2 pages ago. It was beachbond that brought it up because of the title of the Bitchute video.

If Rosenbaum had a clean criminal record , it wouldn't make a difference. When you try and wrestle away someone's gun, they have a legal right to shoot you if their life is in immediate danger. It's self defense laws 101.

----------


## AntRobertson

> It's self defense laws 101.


Narrator's Voice: _But actually it wasn't, socal was making shit up again and everyone knew it..._

----------


## Backspin

> I don't think you understand the charges, let alone the penalties they carry.
> 
> 
> 
> That charge carries a penalty of up to 12 1/2 years. Plenty of time for him to "drop the soap".
> 
> Fucking hell, 9 months for illegal possession of a weapon will leave him with a sore arse.


Our daily reminder that the legality of the gun is IRRELEVANT if and when the threshold of self defense has been met. And if you think this isn't true then post something that backs up your claim.  

Classic Self-Defense: , *whether the weapon used in self-defense is lawfully possessed doesn’t matter.* The five core elements of self-defense – innocence, imminence, proportionality, avoidance, and reasonableness – don’t make any reference whatever to the legality or illegality of one’s defensive weapon.

----------


## Edmond

> Our daily reminder that the legality of the gun is IRRELEVANT


Ah shure everybody knows that.






> with an illegal firearm





> with a gun he wasn't supposed to have



Okay almost everyone.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Ah shure everybody knows that.
> 
> Okay almost everyone.



Derp.




> Wisconsin law prohibits minors from possessing firearms except for hunting.


I'm not sure if an "I was hunting" defence would be a brilliant idea.

 :rofl:

----------


## Edmond

> I'm not sure if an "I was hunting" defence


It doesn't need to be defended, other than for the charge of possession of a firearm by a minor, which is only a misdemeanor, which is a a nonindictable offense. :-)


It is legally irrelevant to the other charges.


You're welcome-o. :-)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It doesn't need to be defended, other than for the charge of possession of a firearm by a minor, which is only a misdemeanor, which is a a nonindictable offense. :-)


It's still nine months inside having your arse railed by an enormous psychopath that calls you his bitch.

He'll call it relevant.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Opening statements are being made today in the Ahmaud Arbery trial. He's the black jogger that was murdered by the racist arseholes in Georgia.

The police didn't even make an arrest until video of the murder surfaced two months after the event.

Miraculously, they've managed to get a jury of 11 white people and one black.

Hard to believe that, isn't it?

----------


## harrybarracuda

Odd preliminaries. I don't know if it's the prosecution or the defence that has asked the judge if jurors can remove their masks so that their reactions can be gauged.

The judge said "Let's sort that out before the jury comes in".

Not sure if there is a mask mandate or not, no-one's wearing them at the moment.

Maybe I'll open a separate thread for this trial.

----------


## baldrick

His parents should be on trial as well

----------


## Troy

Interesting testimony from the former Marine, Jason Lackowski:




> "asked very bluntly to shoot him" and took a few "false steppings ... to entice someone to do something."


Lackowski got up from the witness stand and demonstrated what he called  "false stepping." He took a small step and slight lurch forward, then  stopped. But Lackowski, who was called as a witness by the prosecution, said he  viewed Rosenbaum as a "babbling idiot" and turned his back and ignored  him.

His testimony showed a contrast between how the experienced  military veteran viewed Rosenbaum and earlier testimony that Rittenhouse  - who was 17 at the time - may have perceived Rosenbaum as a threat.

The reporter, Richie McGinnis, who was around 15 feet away at the time of the shooting, also mentioned that Rosenbaum lunged forward but in a manner where he could have stopped himself falling [if he hadn't been shot]. He said that he lunged towards the barrel of the gun, which Rittenhouse was holding at a 45degree angle and dodged to avoid contact before raising the gun and firing.

McGinnis then shouted for Rittenhouse to dial 911 and saw him use his phone. However, Rittenhouse didn't call 911 (he called his mate instead) and then ran away. Even if the first killing was caused by fear for his life (which I find very difficult to believe) he should have remained where he was and called the police for assistance. The fact that he ran away, and was subsequently chased by people who witnessed the shooting, makes the second killing very difficult to justify as self defence. 

The first killing, even with self defence, is only mitigation to reduce from murder 1 to murder 2. 

The second killing was just reckless behaviour and I'm surprised none of his 'team' came to his rescue.

----------


## Edmond

> he should have remained where he was and called the police for assistance. The fact that he ran away, and was subsequently chased by people who witnessed the shooting, makes the second killing very difficult to justify as self defence.


If he remained where he was, it would have almost certainly resulted in one of two outcomes:

Him being lynched and killed.

Him needing to defend his life again, endangering the lives of those endangering his. 


Removing himself from the scene was the best option for everyone, and one done to preserve lives. :-)

----------


## Troy

> When you try and wrestle away someone's gun, they have a legal right to shoot you if their life is in immediate danger.


Wrestle away? He didn't touch the weapon, he may well have done nothing more than feigned a grab for it.

----------


## Edmond

> he may well have done nothing more than feigned a grab for it.


In order to trick a fleeing person armed with an AR15, that've he's just chased down, in a riot where gunfire is going off?


What was he gonna do next.


Pinch his cheeks and say 'Gotchaaa'.  :Smile:

----------


## helge

> Pinch his cheeks and say 'Gotchaaa'.


Might have spooked me even more than his looney drugged up eyes !  :Smile:

----------


## Troy

> that've he's


Chico pinched your nic?

The guy was hassling blokes with guns all night...until he found one that got spooked.

----------


## panama hat

> In my opinion there's only one question that needs to be answered to determine whether it was murder or self defense.


Yet it isn't that simple, just like a finished meal in a restaurant isn't that simple.   

You get yourself a gun, drive for hours to place yourself in the middle of a riot, scare people with your gun, act like you're God with Gun . . .

----------


## Troy

> What was he gonna do next.


He was viewed as a 


> babbling idiot


There appear to be more than a few babbling idiots on this thread but that is no excuse for gunning them down...

----------


## Backspin

> Chico pinched your nic?
> 
> The guy was hassling blokes with guns all night...until he found one that got spooked.



Rosenbaum threatened to kill Rittenhouse specifically that night, if he found him alone. Which he did. “If I catch any of you guys alone tonight I’m going to f— kill you!”

http://Witness: Shooting victim thre... - The Journal

KENOSHA, Wis. — The first man shot by Kyle Rittenhouse on the streets of Kenosha was “hyperaggressive”  that night, threatened to kill Rittenhouse and someone with him, and  later lunged for Rittenhouse’s rifle just before the 17-year-old fired,  witnesses testified Thursday.

Richie McGinniss, who was recording events on a cellphone that night  for the conservative website The Daily Caller, testified that Joseph  Rosenbaum, the first man shot that night, was killed after chasing down  Rittenhouse and lunging for the gun.


 “I think it was very clear to me that he was reaching specifically for the weapon,” McGinniss said.



Ryan Balch, a former Amy infantryman who carried an an AR-style  semi-automatic rifle that night and walked around patrolling the streets  with Rittenhouse, testified that Rosenbaum was “hyperaggressive and acting out in a violent manner,” including trying to set fires and throwing rocks.
 Balch  said that he got between Rosenbaum and another man while Rosenbaum was  trying to start a fire, and Rosenbaum got angry, shouting, “If I catch any of you guys alone tonight I’m going to f— kill you!”

----------


## Backspin

> Yet it isn't that simple, just like a finished meal in a restaurant isn't that simple.   
> 
> You get yourself a gun, drive for hours to place yourself in the middle of a riot, scare people with your gun, act like you're God with Gun . . .



Morons like yourself make it sound like he was the only one with a gun. When a cursory look at the footage shows 5 to 10 gun carriers in any given camera location.

----------


## panama hat

So, still no promised audio recording to support your usual baseless claims . . . or are you going to keep clinging onto the "The FBI/CIA/Mossad/MI5/BND" 'done eraised them there facts' defense?

----------


## beachbound

> So, still no promised audio recording?


Just you wait! Its comin and its gonna be RAW!   :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

Sorry, beachbound, I forgot the "RAW' part.

----------


## Edmond

Ant has fallen silent, which can only mean one thing, that haven been educated on the matter, he's now in agreement with Backspin. Good to see.  :Yup:  


Ah shure Ant would post if it was otherwise.

----------


## Troy

Edmond not catching any fish....

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Edmond not catching any fish....


Needs some actual bait.

----------


## Troy

Assault rifle, cocked and ready sounds like premeditated murder to me.

----------


## Backspin

> Assault rifle, cocked and ready sounds like premeditated murder to me.


Except there was hundreds of cocked and ready guns out on the street that night. If you try and steal a cocked and ready gun out of the hands of someone , you will be shot

----------


## Backspin

> So, still no promised audio recording to support your usual baseless claims . . . or are you going to keep clinging onto the "The FBI/CIA/Mossad/MI5/BND" 'done eraised them there facts' defense?


And when I find it, you'll  just pretend that I didn't anyway.

----------


## aging one

> Except there was hundreds of cocked and ready guns out on the street that night. If you try and steal a cocked and ready gun out of the hands of someone , you will be shot


Who the fuck would try to do that moron?. Its not an I phone 12. JHC

----------


## Backspin

> Just you wait! It’s comin’ and it’s gonna be RAW!


You and Troy and your minions on this thread just simply don't believe in self defense laws do you...

That's all this is. 

Btw even if I find the audio , you'll just cover your ears if the source isn't CNN. And you'll just pretend that its fake and double down on the sophistry that is plaguing this thread.

----------


## Backspin

> Who the fuck would try to do that moron?. Its not an I phone 12. JHC


Who would try and do that ? Joseph Rosenbaum. That's who. Do you think the videos showing what happened are CGI or something ?

----------


## Backspin

> .


Here again , is the FBI night vision footage showing what happened. 

Are ppl blind ?

----------


## helge

> Who would try and do that ? Joseph Rosenbaum.


And he is dead

Talk about not even taking a knife to a gunfight.

I know that I asked it before: What was this guy "on" ?

----------


## havnfun

After having seen some more of the evidence supplied by the prosecution, Including infrared video footage video from the state that was never available to the public before.(from a helicopter or a drone). I'm leaning more every hour to absolute self defense.

I may have some bias, and I am clearly able to show that. But watching the testimony it is becoming more evident that Kyle was chased down because of his "baby face".

----------


## beachbound

> Btw even if I find the audio , you'll just cover your ears.


Ah, don’t give up now, backspit!  I’m sure _you_ believe there’s an audio clip out there (albeit, raw), and that’s all that really counts, isn’t it?

----------


## Edmond

> absolute self defense.


Of course.


Only a troll (or simpo-dimpo) would think differently.

----------


## Troy

> I know that I asked it before: What was this guy "on" ?


He was on medication for Bipolar Disorder and had only been discharged from a psychiatric ward the same day he was killed. He was acting aggressively towards just about everyone with a gun but was ignored by all as a loud mouthed nutter. Everyone else just walked away, regarding him as a harmless nutter...until a scared little boy decided he'd had enough and shot him for no good reason.

I am not that happy with the McGinnis evidence, how he suddenly stopped filming (it suddenly went to photo) at the time of the shooting and then mysteriously started again when it was all over. Was it deliberately deleted, after all the guy is a reporter for right wing press.

Evidence from Ryan Balch, suggests that he and Kyle Rittenhouse had a predetermined rendezvous point if they became separated. This is where Rittenhouse should have been heading towards if he felt threatened. 

I wonder if the prosecution will quote any studies that have been carried out showing how someone armed immediately increases tension and aggressive behaviour by others. That is, studies have been carried out showing that being armed in a public area provokes aggression and hence self defence is out of the question.

----------


## helge

> He was on medication for Bipolar Disorder and had only been discharged from a psychiatric ward the same day he was killed. He was acting aggressively towards just about everyone with a gun but was ignored by all as a loud mouthed nutter. Everyone else just walked away, regarding him as a harmless nutter...until a scared little boy decided he'd had enough and shot him for no good reason.


Thankyou; didn't know that



> .until a scared little boy decided he'd had enough and shot him for no good reason.


Let's see about that

----------


## cyrille

Why are your ‘thoughts’ so momentous that they couldn’t just be added to the thread already in existence?

This is one of the things about you that pisses people off.

----------


## Edmond

I was only responding.

----------


## helge

Don't be so modest
A First Responder

Has a nice ring to it

----------


## Troy

> It's a fact that Rosenbaum made a death threat to Rittenhouse.


According to this week's testimony, Rosenbaum threatened Ryan Balch and Kyle Rittenhouse happened to be in earshot at the time. Not quite the same thing as a direct threat before "wrestling with the weapon" (your words), which there is no evidence of him ever touching.

You still haven't explained the use of 4 shots. Do you think that shooting 4 times was reasonable force against an unarmed man who was heading for the deck after missing the rifle  barrel?

----------


## Backspin

> You still haven't explained the use of 4 shots. Do you think that shooting 4 times was reasonable force against an unarmed man who was heading for the deck after missing the rifle  barrel?


Its just self defense training 101. Cops usually shoot more than 4. 

A 2019 study of the Dallas Police Department found that in more than 130 shootings, officers struck their targets 35% of the time.

If  officers are using deadly force, they're usually trained to not pause  their fire and to shoot in quick succession -- taking a break to assess  the suspect they're shooting at could give that suspect time to harm  them or others, he said. 


And legally, the number of shots officers fire often doesn't matter, he said: Under the Fourth Amendment,  officers must have had reason to believe the suspect they fired on was a  threat who could've killed them or caused great bodily harm.

Why police shoot so many times to bring down a suspect  - CNN

This suspect basically absorbs 7 to 8 shots and still is able to stand up and get a shot off.

----------


## Edmond

> the use of 4 shots.


Enough for self-defense.


For murder, it would likely have been a helluva lot more. If he was intending to murder him, he likely would have unloaded into him. :-) 

4 wittle self-defence shots from an AR15 that could turn someone into Swisscheese if intending to kill them. 


Just another piece of evidence that destroys the ludicrous charges.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Enough for self-defense.
> 
> 4 wittle self-defence shots from an AR15 that could turn someone into Swisscheese if intending to kill them. 
> Just another piece of evidence that destroys the ludicrous charges.


You're a fucking idiot if you think anyone will bite that, or an even bigger fucking idiot if you believe it.

 :rofl:

----------


## Troy

> Its just self defense training 101. Cops usually shoot more than 4.


You do know the difference in power between an AR-15 and a pistol...a magnitude higher effective range of over 500yds vs 50yds. 

The FBI video shows that Rittenhouse was not trapped, he could have circled round the car, as he did later, without having to shoot. He was not cornered as you suggested in your earlier posts.

However, the argument against self-defence has always been that Rittenhouse provoked aggression by his mere presence on the streets with an assault rifle.

----------


## havnfun

One takeaway from today's testimony is-------- An Indian's testimony :Smile:  Im not sure, I dont recall, Repeat the question. Its as if he scared shitless of the "mob" attacking his car lots if he sais anything that is positive for the defendant :Smile: .

----------


## havnfun

Day one of the trial , full uncut video.

----------


## havnfun

Day two full uncut video,

----------


## havnfun

Day three full uncut video.

----------


## havnfun

Day four full uncut video.

----------


## panama hat

> So, still no promised audio recording to support your usual baseless claims . . . or are you going to keep clinging onto the "The FBI/CIA/Mossad/MI5/BND" 'done eraised them there facts' defense?





> And when I find it





> Btw even if I find the audio


Almost chico-like in his responses

----------


## Troy

^^ Thanks for posting the trial videos havnfun...

Interesting that Joseph Rosenbaum was only 5'3", sounds like one of those all mouth and no trousers sort of guys that are usually just ignored.

Reasonable force may well have been to stop and shout boo to the guy...

----------


## Backspin

> The FBI video shows that Rittenhouse was not trapped, He was not cornered as you suggested in your earlier posts.
> 
> However, the argument against self-defence has always been that Rittenhouse provoked aggression by his mere presence on the streets with an assault rifle.





> The FBI video shows that Rittenhouse was not trapped, He was not cornered as you suggested in your earlier posts.


Monday morning quaterbacking at its finest. Looking at a birds eye view, which is not what Rittenhouse seen.    Its literally the definition of being cornered. Rosenbaum was capable of running way faster than Rittenhouse. He closed the gap in less than seconds. And you think they were both going for a jog.

----------


## Backspin

The unbiased Court TV podcast did an episode about the start of the trial 

The hosts say that the prosecution of this case started things off with a bold faced lie. The prosecution said that Kyle Rittenhouse chased down Joseph Rosenbaum and shot him. Then the defense got up and played the video of Rosenbaum chasing Rittenhouse. The exact opposite of what the prosecution said. 

Then the hosts say that this was a strange and bad strategy that will not sit well with the jury. 

The clip of the bold faced lie starts at 6:17

The Tale of Two Trials  McMichaels et al and Rittenhouse Murder Trials, PT 1 - Court TV Podcast - Omny.fm

----------


## Troy

> The prosecution said that Kyle Rittenhouse chased down Joseph Rosenbaum


If you look at the start of the video you can see that Rittenhouse was indeed running towards Rosenbaum and that Rosenbaum hid behind some parked cars before getting onto Rittenhouse's tail and chasing him.

----------


## panama hat

> If you look at the start of the video you can see that Rittenhouse was indeed running towards Rosenbaum and that Rosenbaum hid behind some parked cars before getting onto Rittenhouse's tail and chasing him.


You're using facts to socal's anger.

----------


## Backspin

> If you look at the start of the video you can see that Rittenhouse was indeed running towards Rosenbaum and that Rosenbaum hid behind some parked cars before getting onto Rittenhouse's tail and chasing him.


Pure sophistry  You mean when Rittenhouse was jogging down the road, with the flow of walking traffic, to ask if anyone needed medical assistance ? Completely oblivious to the fact that Rosenbaum was there ? 

soph·ist·ry



 _noun_


noun: *sophistry*


the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

----------


## Backspin

The so called bag that Rosenbaum threw, was on fire. It can be seen on the video. It was an improvised Molotov cocktail

----------


## Backspin

> Just you wait! Its comin and its gonna be RAW!


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :smiley laughing: 

The prosecutions own witnesses said that Rosenbaum threatened Rittenhouses life earlier in the night

----------


## panama hat

So . . . you got nuthin' but a fancy new word and still no RAW nuthin

----------


## Troy

> The so called bag that Rosenbaum threw, was on fire. It can be seen on the video. It was an improvised Molotov cocktail


Oh lordy, lordy, you are grabbing for something there mate...and a Molotov cocktail might have swung the self-defence plea. However, it was a bag containing his underwear and toiletries. There is no evidence produced in the trial that states the plastic bag was on fire. 

Don't let facts get in the way of your desperation for self-defence hey....

Have you read the 1967 study by Berkowitz and LePage yet? You know the study on "Effects of Weapons". Plenty of later studies with the same findings. Have a read and come back to us with your thoughts on civilians carrying weapons in a riot during a curfew and how they provoke aggression. 

...and stop using words you clearly don't understand.

----------


## panama hat

> come back to us with your thoughts


Tough ask.  Will he also coma back with the 'RAW' footage erased by Mossad?  Or the CIA?  BND?  MI5?

----------


## misskit

^^^^Tim Poole. He’s not good enough to be a real journalist so he finds not-so-discerning followers on YouTube. Can’t stand the little twerp.

----------


## bsnub

*How Coward and Phony Tim Pool Became One of the Biggest Political YouTubers on the Planet*https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-co...-on-the-planet

----------


## misskit

^ Behind a paywall.

How ‘Coward and Phony’ Tim Pool Became One of the Biggest Political YouTubers on the Planet

Not behind a paywall.

----------


## beachbound

> The prosecutions own witnesses said that Rosenbaum threatened Rittenhouses life earlier in the night


This is why youre never taken seriously, Backspit. The testimony was that his threats were not at Rittenhouse, directly. Rosenbaum was acting belligerently and his threat was not directed at anyone person, rather at a large group. The far right nut job on the podcast, flat out lied.

----------


## Backspin

> Oh lordy, lordy, you are grabbing for something there mate...and a Molotov cocktail might have swung the self-defence plea. However, it was a bag containing his underwear and toiletries. There is no evidence produced in the trial that states the plastic bag was on fire. 
> 
> Don't let facts get in the way of your desperation for self-defence hey....
> 
> Have you read the 1967 study by Berkowitz and LePage yet? You know the study on "Effects of Weapons". Plenty of later studies with the same findings. Have a read and come back to us with your thoughts on civilians carrying weapons in a riot during a curfew and how they provoke aggression. 
> 
> ...and stop using words you clearly don't understand.


Haha yeah. Keep.pretending that you are winning. You literally have no case and neither does the prosecution 

It basically looks like the prosecution is throwing the case. The witnesses they called on bolstered the defences case. And non partisan legal analysts are saying this.

----------


## Backspin

> Tough ask.  Will he also coma back with the 'RAW' footage erased by Mossad?  Or the CIA?  BND?  MI5?


I dont need to bring that footage. The prosecutions own witnesses verified what I was saying already  :rofl:

----------


## Backspin

> *How ‘Coward and Phony’ Tim Pool Became One of the Biggest Political YouTubers on the Planet*https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-co...-on-the-planet


Really ? You didn't find a way to label him a white supremesist ?

----------


## Backspin

> This is why you’re never taken seriously, Backspit. The testimony was that his threats were not at Rittenhouse, directly. Rosenbaum was acting “belligerently” and his threat was not directed at anyone person, rather at a large group. The far right nut job on the podcast, flat out lied.


Nice try. It was directed at 2 people. One was Kyle Rittenhouse. But yeah. If Rosenbaum did manage to wrestle away that gun, he wouldn't have just killed Rittenhouse. That's true. He would have had enough ammo to go down in a blaze of glory, shooting at everyone he could.

----------


## helge

> He would have had enough ammo to go down in a blaze of glory, shooting at everyone he could.


There is ofcourse that

Will Rittenhouse get himself a medal ?

It is afterall the US of Exceptionalisme

----------


## Troy

> Nice try. It was directed at 2 people. One was Kyle Rittenhouse. But yeah.


Almost correct Backspin, but the Testimony from Ryan Bach was that the threat was directed at him and one other person. It was not directed at Kyle Rittenhouse but it was acknowledged that he was within ear shot.

What would have happened is speculation and not admissible as evidence in court. However, Rittenhouse had already dodged any attempt at grabbing his gun and there is no evidence that Rosenbaum touched the gun let alone try to wrestle it from Rittenhouse.

----------


## Backspin

> Almost correct Backspin, but the Testimony from Ryan Bach was that the threat was directed at him and one other person. It was not directed at Kyle Rittenhouse but it was acknowledged that he was within ear shot.
> 
> What would have happened is speculation and not admissible as evidence in court. However, Rittenhouse had already dodged any attempt at grabbing his gun and there is no evidence that Rosenbaum touched the gun let alone try to wrestle it from Rittenhouse.





> Almost correct Backspin, but the Testimony from Ryan Bach was that the  threat was directed at him and one other person. It was not directed at  Kyle Rittenhouse but it was acknowledged that he was within ear shot.


Not true. That is just not true. Kyle Rittenhouse can be seen running with a fire extinguisher to put out the dumpster fire. And that is precisely why Rosenbaum was so pissed at Rittenhouse. And why he made the threat.






> , Rittenhouse had already dodged any attempt at grabbing his gun and  there is no evidence that Rosenbaum touched the gun let alone try to  wrestle it from Rittenhouse.


There is multiple videos showing Rosenbaum successfully out run Rittenhouse until he was in his personal space. Plus there is clearer video out there apparently that the defense wants to see. But the FBI won't release it or says it no longer exists. 

Is FBI withholding aerial footage from Kyle Rittenhouse defense team?

----------


## panama hat

> Not true. That is just not true.


As Troy, backspin and everyone else has said numerous times:


> ... you’re never taken seriously, Backspit.






> There is multiple videos


Still waiting for the 'RAW' one

----------


## beachbound

^
I’m waiting with bated breath.

 :Smile:

----------


## Troy

Looks like Backspin needs to watch/read the trial testimony instead of misinformation sites...

----------


## helge

I watched some of the testimony by Gaige Grosskreutz.

Another armed ..medic.

He got real near to Rittenhouse...with a drawn Glock, which he never intended to use, cause he isn't that kind of guy.

He lost a biceps

A rendevous of unfortunate souls in the night ?


Are we going to hear a version from Rittenhouse ?

The prosecution has nothing yet

(in my opinion, but I don't know a thing about the law overthere)

----------


## Backspin

> I watched some of the testimony by Gaige Grosskreutz.
> 
> Another armed ..medic.
> 
> He got real near to Rittenhouse...with a drawn Glock, which he never intended to use, cause he* isn't that kind of guy*.
> 
> )




From a misinformation site called Facebook
 ::doglol::

----------


## helge

I'm pretty sure that he didn't say that.

( my boy stole my earphones)

He'll get Grosskreutzed by the defence, if they'll put any weight on 'Jacob Marshall'

----------


## Edmond

Well done Kyle, able to nullify the threat to his (and other's) lives by using the minimum amount of self-defence force needed to stay safe.

----------


## baldrick

> Will Rittenhouse get himself a medal ?


the cherubic white boy will get a stretched ringpiece

----------


## Troy

> From a misinformation site called Facebook


Backspin prefers to believe everything he reads on Facebook rather than the testimony in court... :Smile:

----------


## helge

> the testimony in court


Just saw 2 mins more

They are now nailing Grosskreutz 

Can you make a deal with the defence in the US ?  :Smile: 

Backspin: Seems you were right about him

----------


## Troy

Yeah, defence trashed Grosskreutz.

----------


## helge

They got a few things to prosecute him on.

And a civil lawsuit for 10 mill against the city, where he forgot to mention that he chased Rittenhouse with a drawn gun.

I actually feel ashamed that I find this hilarious, but I do.

----------


## helge

> Yeah, defence trashed Grosskreutz.


Too easy

This victim is a greedy lier

Now I start wondering about victim 3.....Huber?

Any sceletons in his closet ?

----------


## panama hat

> He'll get Grosskreutzed


Hehe . . . nicely done.  :Smile:

----------


## helge

> Hehe . . . nicely done.


Well thank you

You are in this instance too kind



> 'Jacob Marshall'


Came up

----------


## Backspin

Mr. Rosenbaum was wearing his shirt over his face as a mask when he ran  towards Rittenhouse. Why ? To mask his identity before he steals the gun  and carries out a murder.

Right here at 2:54.40

----------


## Backspin

> Backspin prefers to believe everything he reads on Facebook rather than the testimony in court...



This facebook post will be an exhibit in court.

----------


## panama hat

> This facebook post will be an exhibit in court.

----------


## Edmond

> he forgot to mention that he chased Rittenhouse with a drawn gun.


The whole case is a joke.


The Rittenhouse method of self-defense could be taught in US schools.

----------


## Troy

Sure, after all there hasn't been a mass shooting incident in the USA since....yesterday.

...and anyone trying to stop an active shooter can be shot in self defence.

Righto USA.

----------


## Edmond

> trying to stop an active shooter


He wasn't an active shooter.

He didn't fire a shot until attacked by an armed robber that assaulted him and tried to steal his gun, those shots were in self defense and well controlled - 4 defensive shots as opposed to unloading.

After that he fired and wounded an armed robber (that was also trying to take his weapon) that was coming at him with a gun drawn and pointed at him.


Great examples of controlled self defense.

----------


## Backspin

Gone a little quiet around here . I wonder why. Grosskraut made the mistake of telling the truth.

----------


## misskit

*Kyle Rittenhouse Defenders Are Saying This Is the Moment the Prosecution Collapsed*

A key part in the testimony from Gaige Grosskreutz, who was shot by Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha in August 2020, proved that the 18-year-old was acting in self-defense when he fired, supporters of the defendant have argued.

Grosskreutz took to the stand on Monday to give evidence in the trial of Rittenhouse, who is accused of shooting the 28-year-old during a Black Lives Matter protest and killing two others, Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber.


The prosecution hoped that Grosskreutz's testimony would show that the then 17-year-old was not in Kenosha that day in order to protect the Wisconsin city or help those injured in the disorder, but was in fact one of the facilitators of the violence.

While being chased down the street after shooting and killing Rosenbaum, footage from the scene shows Rittenhouse falling to ground and being descended upon by Huber, who hits him with a skateboard.

On Monday, Grosskreutz told the jury how he thought Rittenhouse was an active shooter that night, adding that he thought he "was going to die."


Grosskreutz, who was armed with a handgun at the time, said he approached Rittenhouse with his hands in the air but saw the defendant "re-racking" his gun in order to fire again.


"Re-racking the weapon, in my mind, meant the defendant wasn't accepting my surrender," Grosskreutz said.

However, under cross-examination by Rittenhouse's lawyer Corey Chirafisi, Grosskreutz was shown photos which appear to show him pointing his handgun towards Rittenhouse as he was on the ground moments before the defendant fired.


"So when you were standing three to five feet from him with your arms up in the air, he never fired, right?" Chirafisi, asked, reported The New York Times.


"Correct," Grosskreutz replied.


"It wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on him with your gun—now your hands down, pointed at him—that he fired, right?" Chirafisi added.


"Correct," Grosskreutz said.

A clip of Grosskreutz's testimony in which he admitted that he pointed his gun at Rittenhouse was shared on Twitter by lawyer David Freiheit, a YouTuber who goes by the name Viva Frei online, where it has since been viewed more than 2.7 million times.


Freiheit tweeted the clip along with the caption: "Rittenhouse trial should be over immediately." The clip came from a live-stream of the court proceedings hosted by Nick Rekieta, a Minnesota lawyer and owner of Rekieta Media.


Conservative talk show host Megyn Kelly was one of those who also tweeted out the clip.


"Huge, huge moment at Rittenhouse trial. You don't get many moments like this as a trial attny," Kelly wrote.


Grosskreutz, who is trained as a paramedic, argues he was in Kenosha that night to provide medical assistance and had no intention of firing despite being armed.


"That's not the kind of person that I am. That's not why I was out there," he said.


Speaking to Spectrum News, John Gross, a clinical associate professor of law at the University of Wisconsin Law School and director of the Public Defender Project, described the testimony from Grosskreutz as "remarkable."


"His admission under cross-examination that at the time he was shot that he'd started to point his weapon at Mr. Rittenhouse—all of those things support the defense argument that [Rittenhouse] was acting in self-defense at that point," Gross said.


Gross added that the jury must still consider whether they believe Rittenhouse was in Kenosha to provide medical assistance despite having no formal training, unlike his injured victim.


"I think there will definitely be this pull on the jurors to say, 'Why was he there? What did he hope to accomplish?'" Gross added. "I think the prosecution did a nice job this morning of setting up Mr. Grosskreutz as being there to render aid and assistance because he was a trained paramedic—Mr. Rittenhouse was not."

Kyle Rittenhouse Defenders Are Saying This Is the Moment the Prosecution Collapsed

----------


## Edmond

> The Rittenhouse method of self-defense could be taught in US schools.





> Great examples of controlled self defense.


 :Yup: 





> "It wasn't until you pointed your gun at him, advanced on him with your gun—now your hands down, pointed at him—that he fired, right?" Chirafisi added.
> 
> "Correct," Grosskreutz said.



Maybe Kyle could go a national tour of schools, educating children on how to properly behave in such a situation.

----------


## Troy

> Gone a little quiet around here . I wonder why. Grosskraut made the mistake of telling the truth.


Grosskreutz stated that Rittenhause had a blockage and had to recock his weapon. This happened while his hands were up. Was that confirmed on video? I've been too busy today to watch any of it. Anyway, if this is true then it should have been emphasised by prosecution.

No doubting Rittenhouse was a scared puppy that night. Let's wait for him to get on the stand and find out what he has to say.

----------


## helge

> I've been too busy today to watch any of it.


Me too

And it's kind of yesterday's fascination



> Anyway, if this is true then it should have been emphasised by prosecution.


This isn't Europe



> No doubting Rittenhouse was a scared puppy that night.


Understandable

If I was brought up in a screwed country with a screwed 2. amendment culture, I would have acted just like him.

He was in a situation and place, where no 17. year olds should be.

In a demonstration, that wasn't a demonstration, but more like a flock of brit footie fans leaving a match, they lost.

If taking part in "demonstrations" like that, I'd say that, in most of Europe, Rittenhouse, Balch, Grosskreutz and maybe (was it) Rosenheim ?, would be shot.

By the police !
Fact

But I ain't in his shoes

His actions is what could be expected



> ..and anyone trying to stop an active shooter can be shot in self defence.
> 
> 
> 
> Righto USA.


Be careful to put US affairs into european context.

If Grosskreutz the Fraud had killed Rittenhouse, he might have landed his own TV Show by now.

But he failed

We are not at all alike.

I posted before that we have more in common with Iranians.

To provoke

But I mean it

----------


## Troy

^ Yes, you're quite right helge, however,  one would hope that a civilian carrying a rifle in a public place during a riot would forfeit his right to self defence.

...and yes, in Europe just carrying one would make you a legitimate target for the police.

----------


## Samuel

ritenhouse is going to take the stand in a few minutes.

----------


## Samuel

speaking now, on the stand.

----------


## Samuel

ritenhouse is solid.

----------


## beachbound

good actor. Well coached

----------


## beachbound



----------


## Backspin

> ritenhouse is solid.


I seem some of it. He's fairly well spoken

----------


## Backspin

> ^ Yes, you're quite right helge, however,  one would hope that a civilian carrying a rifle in a public place during a riot would forfeit his right to self defence.
> 
> ...and yes, in Europe just carrying one would make you a legitimate target for the police.


It was a misdemeanor change for him to carry the long gun that night. If he had carried a pistol , that's more than a misdemeanor. Either way, he wasn't obligated to forfeit his life even if he had an illegal pistol.

----------


## panama hat

> beachbound


The judge seems like an angry drunk

----------


## beachbound

^
A babbling angry drunk, who made his mind up about the case, before it started.

----------


## beachbound

> he's fairly well coached



…ftfy…

----------


## Backspin

> The judge seems like an angry drunk


Doesn't seem like a drunk at all. You are just talking utter bollocks again like usual  ::chitown::

----------


## Bonecollector

Joseph Rosenbaum was a nonce apparently.

Apologies if you have already discussed, I cannot be fucked to scroll through 25pages.

Can't stand these vile charlatans who claim to be bastions of human decency when in actual fact are scum. 

Joseph Rosenbaum Sex Offender Arizona '02 Criminal Complaint

----------


## Backspin

> Joseph Rosenbaum was a nonce apparently.
> 
> Apologies if you have already discussed, I cannot be fucked to scroll through 25pages.
> 
> Can't stand these vile charlatans who claim to be bastions of human decency when in actual fact are scum. 
> 
> Joseph Rosenbaum Sex Offender Arizona '02 Criminal Complaint



​So a pedophile, domestic abuser and felon walk into a bar.... Kyle Rittenhouse says : "SHOTS ARE ON ME"

----------


## beachbound

> ​So a pedophile, domestic abuser and felon walk into a bar.... Kyle Rittenhouse says : "SHOTS ARE ON ME"


We can now add tasteless, and unfunny to your list of redeeming qualities.

----------


## sabang

Big man with a gun, e'hhh. Or a pathetic crybaby. Not such a tough guy now are we?? Pathetic.

----------


## beachbound

^I wonder if the blubbering was part of the script, or did he ad-lib.

----------


## panama hat

> ^I wonder if the blubbering was part of the script, or did he ad-lib.


No gun = No tough

----------


## Troy

If I understood correctly, he chose to take an AR-15 instead of  a pistol because of an age restriction. It was okay to be in possession of a rifle but not a pistol.

I could understand a bolt action with 5-clip but a semi auto?

Hey USA, why did you nuke NK off the planet?

Well, M'Lord, the NK shot at the plane with small arms and we acted in self defence. The plane only had nukes on board so we had to use them....

----------


## nidhogg

^ no.  He could not legally possess the rifle, and that remains one of the charges.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^I wonder if the blubbering was part of the script, or did he ad-lib.


Lawyers instructions no doubt.

----------


## Edmond

Once cleared, can he get compensation from the families of the people who attacked him and threatened his life for the stress and mental anguish their actions caused?

----------


## nidhogg

> Lawyers instructions no doubt.


I would have voted to convict on the spot after that little display.

Might just be me, but watching him testify today I was getting a whiff of a psychopath.

----------


## harrybarracuda

So anyway, he's pleading self defence for the shootings because: 


a bloke tried to behead him with a skateboard (jury might buy that as reasonable doubt)
a bloke had a gun pointed at him (easy win)

What was the third one doing?

----------


## Backspin

The Young Turks hotty hack admits she was wrong about the case. She believed the prosecution when he said that it was Rosenbaum being chased. The video says otherwise 

This was the first guy shot in this video. Skate board man was the 2nd guy shot. Pistol man was the third guy shot but he didn't die. Just got his arm shot to pieces

----------


## beachbound

> Once cleared, can he get compensation from the families of the people who attacked him and threatened his life for the stress and mental anguish their actions caused?


A better question would be, Can the families of the victims get together, and sue him for killing their loved ones?
Civil suit

----------


## helge

> The Young Turks hotty hack admits she was wrong about the case.


Well if that pretentious "look at me, I'm so smart and clever" twat thinks so, I might reconsider my opinion



> Once cleared, can he get compensation from the families of the people who attacked him and threatened his life for the stress and mental anguish their actions caused?


Ofcourse. We are talking  The US of Ambulance Chasers



> A better question would be, Can the families of the victims get together, and sue him for killing their loved ones?
> Civil suit


Goes without saying

Sue the city too...and the state. And his mother and ........

----------


## Bonecollector

> So anyway, he's pleading self defence for the shootings because: 
> 
> 
> a bloke tried to behead him with a skateboard (jury might buy that as reasonable doubt)
> a bloke had a gun pointed at him (easy win)
> 
> What was the third one doing?


Fingering a kid

----------


## Bonecollector

The guy should get a medal.

----------


## Backspin

> Well if that pretentious "look at me, I'm so smart and clever" twat thinks so, I might reconsider my opinion
> 
> 
> Ofcourse. We are talking  The US of Ambulance Chasers
> 
> 
> Goes without saying
> 
> Sue the city too...and the state. And his mother and ........


Grosskrautz is actually trying to sue the city for 10 million  :Smile: 

Don't ask me why or how. But they say his testimony blew is 10 million dollar chance

----------


## helge

> Don't ask me why


I think he got shot in his arm on a city street, without the city police protecting him against outsiders, who, without any reason whatsoever, overreacts, when peacefully folks wave their Glocks around.






> Don't ask me why


Couldn't have said it better myself

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Fingering a kid


He shot someone who was fingering a kid?

Or you're just a fucking idiot?

I mean granted I haven't read every word of the transcripts, but my money is on the latter.

----------


## harrybarracuda

So it sounds like a lot of the jury's decision is going to hinge on this:




> Rittenhouse said Rosenbaum was carrying a chain earlier that night and had twice threatened to kill him.
> 
> “If I would have let Mr. Rosenbaum take my firearm from me, he would have used it and killed me with it,” he said, “and probably killed more people.”
> 
> During cross-examination Wednesday, prosecutor Thomas Binger sought to drive home the state's contention that Rittenhouse created the dangerous situation in the first place.
> 
> “You understand that when you point your AR-15 at someone, it may make them feel like you’re going to kill them, correct?” Binger asked.

----------


## panama hat

> The Young Turks hotty hack admits she was wrong about the case.


Pay attention to what she says, Backspit - your usual lying is becoming embarrassing. 






> Well if that pretentious "look at me, I'm so smart and clever" twat thinks so, I might reconsider my opinion


Especially if it's being misrepresented by Skidmark.





> “You understand that when you point your AR-15 at someone, it may make them feel like you’re going to kill them, correct?” Binger asked.


But but but



> Rittenhouse said Rosenbaum was carrying a chain earlier that night and had twice threatened to kill him.


Sure . . .

----------


## Bonecollector

> He shot someone who was fingering a kid?
> 
> Or you're just a fucking idiot?
> 
> I mean granted I haven't read every word of the transcripts, but my money is on the latter.



Rosenbaum was a nonce, did some years.

----------


## Barty



----------


## Backspin

> 



This bunch of hooey is like saying self defense doesn't exist. Anyone who ever defended themself from an attack on their person, is "engaging in violence". Yes. The gun shot was inherently violent. He could have had a knife. And the same thing could have happened and he'd be "engaging in violence". And because he had a knife, he'd be "preparing for violence" Anyone with martial arts skills who used them on someone who attacked them was preparing for violence and engaging in violence.

Whoever wrote this must not have seen the video. There wasn't some big street battle going on.

----------


## AntRobertson

> If Kyle Rittenhouse illegally acquired an assault rifle, headed to DC on 1/6 and fatally shot 2 insurrectionists, the Reich Wing would have his head on a platter. But he murdered people who believe black lives matter, so he’s they’re hero. That’s so Nazi.


Brown and black boys get shot dead walking with Skittles or playing with toy guns in their own neighborhoods. This guy gets driven by his mum across state lines armed with an assault rifle, dropped into a rally and gets waved on by the cops after he’d shot people dead and allowed to be driven home by his mum again.

How many of the defenders of Kyle Rittenhouse would be cool with Black teenagers from different states walking around their neighborhoods during rallies with assault rifles to 'maintain peace and order'? Gonna say 'none'. If he were Black it would be an entirely different narrative and we all know it.

Whenever Black men arm themselves all the '2A!' types suddenly see a need for gun controls. America racist as fuck.

----------


## Edmond

> gets waved on by the cops after he’d shot people dead and allowed to be driven home by his mum again.


Self defense is legal. :-)

----------


## panama hat

> Self defense is legal. :-)


Nope, not as a blanket statement

----------


## thailazer

I don't have much sympathy for a kid who carries an assault rifle into a know confrontational scene.  If you are going to do that and shoot someone, you should be ready to do the time.   He should have waited to get into guns until he could join the military, but I doubt he could have passed the ASVAB test that even the US Army is using now.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Brown and black boys get shot dead walking with Skittles or playing with toy guns in their own neighborhoods. This guy gets driven by his mum across state lines armed with an assault rifle, dropped into a rally and gets waved on by the cops after he’d shot people dead and allowed to be driven home by his mum again.
> 
> How many of the defenders of Kyle Rittenhouse would be cool with Black teenagers from different states walking around their neighborhoods during rallies with assault rifles to 'maintain peace and order'? Gonna say 'none'. If he were Black it would be an entirely different narrative and we all know it.
> 
> Whenever Black men arm themselves all the '2A!' types suddenly see a need for gun controls. America racist as fuck.





> Self defense is legal. :-)


Strange cherry-picking and, obvious troll being obvious notwithstanding, I think your grasp of the legal system and processes is severely lacking. (-:

----------


## cyrille

> I doubt he could have passed the ASVAB test that even the US Army is using now.


Sample question:

If there are three quarts of gas in a gallon container, how full is the container?

A) 50% B) 75% C) 80% D) 25%

----------


## Backspin

> I don't have much sympathy for a kid who carries an assault rifle into a know confrontational scene.  If you are going to do that and shoot someone, you should be ready to do the time.   He should have waited to get into guns until he could join the military, but I doubt he could have passed the ASVAB test that even the US Army is using now.


Regardless he was not obligated to give away his gun to someone who wanted to steal it. It was within his rights to defend himself. He could have done the same with a knife

----------


## panama hat

> He could have done the same with a knife


But he didn't . . . he shot and killed people.  He's a beta cuck like someone else on here. 

Your arguments of 'lots of people were carrying guns and they didn't get charged' holds little sway

----------


## aging one

> Regardless he was not obligated to give away his gun to someone who wanted to steal it. It was within his rights to defend himself. He could have done the same with a knife


Easy question.  Was he legally allowed to carry that assault rifle on the streets of Kenosha?

----------


## panama hat

> Easy question. Was he legally allowed to carry that assault rifle on the streets of Kenosha?


Easy answer.  No. 



The trailer trash mother has a lot to answer for as well.

----------


## koman

Mr Rittenhouse has been subjected to many trials.

First. Trial by  public opinion....driven by...Trial by MSNBC, CNN et al. 
Trial by social media...and trial by Teakdoor.

Then we have the actual trial with a judge, jury, and experienced trial lawyers to present facts, evidence and a suitable amount of theater.

I've watched this trial right from the opening statements and all I say is that Mr Rittenhouse is clearly guilty of being quite stupid and showing poor judgement by taking an assault weapon to a place that was volatile and getting himself into some serious trouble....but there is a mass of evidence to support his claim of self defense, regardless of his other actions that night.

The rush to judgement from the MSM and even the President is a national disgrace....not to mention the Teakdoor legal team who wish him to be convicted and burned at the stake without even the trouble and  expensive of an actual trial.

----------


## Edmond

> Was he legally allowed to carry that assault rifle on the streets of Kenosha?


Legality of the weapon matters not a jot in a case of self defense. 

It does matter for the appropriate weapon's charge.

----------


## aging one

> Legality of the weapon matters not a jot in a case of self defense.


In your house yes, but not walking down the streets of a small city.

----------


## Edmond

> troll


All posts should include your opinion on the subject, not your opinion of the member posting.

Please respect the rules of Speakers Corner.

----------


## Edmond

> In your house yes, but not walking down the streets of a small city.


No, it doesn't matter legally in the state where it happened. 

Hence, it doesn't affect the charges other than the possession charge. :-)

----------


## Backspin

> In your house yes, but not walking down the streets of a small city.



Mr.Rittenhouse was not legally obligated to surrender to Mr. Rosenbaums attack, because he wasn't on his property. Which is what you are saying.

----------


## Backspin

> Easy question.  Was he legally allowed to carry that assault rifle on the streets of Kenosha?


This isn't Australia. This isn't Canada. 

Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18, per WI statute § 948.60. Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.   This is a class A misdemeanor under Wisconsin law, punishable by a maximum of 9  months in jail and a fine of up to $10,000.  If this were the only  charge on which Rittenhouse were convicted, and given that he has no  prior criminal history, he may well face no jail time whatever and only a  relatively modest fine.

----------


## aging one

> If this were the only charge on which Rittenhouse were convicted, and given that he has no prior criminal history, he may well face no jail time whatever and only a relatively modest fine.


But its not is it? Not only did he carry it he "took care" of those he did not care for..

----------


## Edmond

> If this were the only charge on which Rittenhouse were convicted, and given that he has no prior criminal history, he may well face no jail time whatever and only a relatively modest fine.


The public can hope that the outcome doesn't affect his future chances of being able to work within a public security role. 

His desire to protect the property of others, the level headed and safe manner in which he handled such a violent situation are exemplary, and would be an asset to the safety of any community, if he can be employed in such a field.

----------


## koman

^
I believe you are quite correct but the usual stalkers will be along soon to issues the standard petty insults.
It's pretty clear now that the DA reacted too quickly in this case and that the defendant was overcharged on every count except for the weapons charge.  
The prosecution was faced with a real uphill battle to prove the murder changes....

----------


## AntRobertson

Can't help but feel many of the people framing now 18 year old Rittenhouse as an innocent kid are the same ones that tried to portray then 12 year old Tamir Rice as a thug and imminent danger to society.

There are even some that idolize the type of person who sucker punches a girl multiple times in the face, wished he had a gun to shoot criminals, illegally acquired an assault rifle and drove across State lines to act out a law enforcement fetish, killed people and basked in the notoriety aftermath by hanging with Proud Boys and throwing up known white supremacy hand signs.

That's some fucked up shit.

----------


## panama hat

> There are even some that idolize the type of person who sucker punches a girl multiple times in the face, wished he had a gun to shoot criminals, illegally acquired an assault rifle and drove across State lines to act out a law enforcement fetish, killed people and basked in the notoriety aftermath by hanging with Proud Boys and throwing up known white supremacy hand signs.


Here at Teakdoor?  Really?






> First. Trial by public opinion....driven by...Trial by MSNBC, CNN et al.
> Trial by social media...and trial by Teakdoor.
>  . . . not to mention the Teakdoor legal team who wish him to be convicted and burned at the stake without even the trouble and expensive of an actual trial.


You do realise that a forum is there to exchange views . . . views YOU may not agree with, views that have no bearing on a trial in WI, views that are made by laymen . . .  That, in essence, is what a chat forum is about.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Here at Teakdoor? Really?


I would like to have more faith in my fellow Teakdorians.................but probably.  :Sad:

----------


## malmomike77

> That's some fucked up shit.


You're back...they have let you come back to SC. Aww.  :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

Rittenhouse's performance theatre on the stand is being rightly pilloried.

Mind, I suppose when Ricky Schroder is your acting coach it's never going to be a performance to trouble the Academy.







> You're back...they have let you come back to SC. Aww.


Considering I was banned for _*Checks*_ no reason at all I don't know if 'let' is the right term.

----------


## Edmond

> I believe you are quite correct


Yes, I am. 

Thank you for your comment.

----------


## AntRobertson

The Miami chapter of the Proud Boys are quite confident of his acquittal also:



Lovely people.

Not everyone who supports Rittenhouse is a white supremacist but all white supremacists support Rittenhouse.




> If we permit vigilantes to come to tense conflict areas armed with assault-style rifles and to claim self defense after KILLING people—even though they made themselves willing combatants in the danger zone—God help us all. We will have lost all reason.

----------


## Edmond

The yellow could do with being toned down a bit, it's very bright for a flag.

----------


## AntRobertson

> The yellow could do with being toned down a bit, it's very bright for a flag.


Might just be exposure from the photo.

Let us know what it's like in person when yours arrives.

----------


## bsnub

> e yellow could do with being toned down a bit, it's very bright for a flag.




That is a take of the Gadsden flag, which dates to the revolutionary war. But in recent times it has been adopted by right-wing loons, gun nuts, white supremacist and trumpanzees.

----------


## Edmond

> That is a take of the Gadsden flag


Learn something new every lulu.  :Smile: 


The snake looks like the one from the bottom right corner of Metallica's Black Album, along with the song name Don't thread on me.

----------


## bsnub

> The snake looks like the one from the bottom right corner of Metallica's Black Album


It is, but sadly, a bunch of loons has co-opted this piece of history. 




> along with the song name Don't tread on me.


FTFY. A great song that was written long before the loons co-opted it.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Attachment 78370
> 
> That is a take of the Gadsden flag, which dates to the revolutionary war. But in recent times it has been adopted by right-wing loons, gun nuts, white supremacist and trumpanzees.


It is also used as a flag to represent the libertarian movement, which is definitely not a racist or extremist movement whatsoever.

----------


## bsnub

> It is also used as a flag to represent the libertarian movement


Oh FFS, libertarians are Ayn Rand nutcase loons. 




> which is definitely not a racist or extremist movement whatsoever.


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Samuel

It's too bad, IMO, that the U.S. mainstream media is coming to the conclusion that Rittenhouse committed murder because it looks like the jury will see the videos, testimony and the pertinent laws and come to the conclusion that he will only face lesser charges. 

Basically, the mainstream media is setting up a big disappointment for liberal activists who will then return to the streets to riot — creating a situation similar to the night Rittenhouse was in. 


deja vu.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It is also used as a flag to represent the libertarian movement, which is definitely not a racist or extremist movement whatsoever.


Everyone knows what it means nowadays. If they're still using it, it's obvious why.

Libertarians are anti-government. Anti some governments more than others.

----------


## Samuel

> You are a brainwashed lemming. A complete simpleton. So do fuck off.


Which part of my opinion do you disagree with? 

1.  The verdict will be lesser charges?

2.  The mainstream media is setting liberal activists up for a big disappointment? 

3.  Liberal activists will return to the streets to riot, being disappointed with the verdict?

or you don't disagree with any of  the above, but — 

4.  I don't want to hear opinions that are different than mine?




> You are a brainwashed lemming. A complete simpleton. So do fuck off.

----------


## Backspin

> Rittenhouse's performance theatre on the stand is being rightly pilloried.
> 
> Mind, I suppose when Ricky Schroder is your acting coach it's never going to be a performance to trouble the Academy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering I was banned for _*Checks*_ no reason at all I don't know if 'let' is the right term.


The "white power" sign was a hoax made up by ppl online. And you keep.trying to take it seriously. Moron

No actual white power group used the Ok sign

----------


## beachbound

*

A little insight into the mindset of this judge

Judge In Kyle Rittenhouse Trial Called Out For Strange Joke About 'Asian Food'

*The judge presiding over the Kyle Rittenhouse murder trial in Kenosha, Wisconsin, made a joke Thursday that critics slammed as racially charged and inappropriate at the expense of Asian people.I hope the Asian food isnt coming ... isnt on one of those boats from Long Beach Harbor, Judge Bruce Schroeder said as the court was preparing to adjourn for lunch, evidently referring to the supply-chain backlog at the California port.
Judge In Kyle Rittenhouse Trial Called Out For Strange Joke About 'Asian Food' | HuffPost Latest News




*


*

----------


## Edmond

White guy shoots white guys in self defense. 


Greta shouts about white supremacists.  :Smile:

----------


## beachbound

> No actual white power group used the Ok sign


just because your group doesn’t use it, doesn’t mean it’s not used.

----------


## Backspin

> But its not is it? Not only did he carry it he "took care" of those he did not care for..


The prosecution did not deny that Rosenbaum got a hand on the barrel of the gun. (after he chased and cornered Rittenhousw as seen on video) 

In the second shot , we have still footage of Huber with his hand on the gun. 

On the third shot, we can see Grosskrautz pointing a pistol at Rittenhouse

----------


## Backspin

> just because your group doesn’t use it, doesn’t mean it’s not used.


The sign means ok or perfect in common culture. It was a hoax and no serious white power group uses it

----------


## beachbound

> The sign means ok or perfect in common culture. It was a hoax and no serious white power group uses it


Is there a subject on which you’re _not_ an authority?

----------


## Bonecollector

> Oh FFS, libertarians are Ayn Rand nutcase loons.


Eric July, pretty much one of the biggest vocal libertarians on the web.

There are stupid people and then there is you. 

 :Wank: 

YoungRippa59 - YouTube

----------


## cisco999

The legality of the gun is irrelevant in a self defense case

Classic Self-Defense: Illegal Weapon Should Not Matter
From a classical self-defense perspective, whether the weapon used in self-defense is lawfully possessed doesnt really matter. The five core elements of self-defense  innocence, imminence, proportionality, avoidance, and reasonableness  dont make any reference whatever to the legality or illegality of ones defensive weapon.


Reply


That's really not true.    Much of the time a person can buy the most justice they can afford.. :sexy:

----------


## Troy

> Regardless he was not obligated to give away his gun to someone who wanted to steal it. It was within his rights to defend himself. He could have done the same with a knife


Pure supposition since no-one knows what would have happened if Rosenbaum hadn't been shot four times at close range.

No idea why Rittenhouse turned and ran in the first place but I do know that if you run even a puppy dog or baby lamb will chase you. I also don't know why the reporter decided to follow Rittenhouse in the first place, he knew something was going to happen but didn't really explain why.

I heard reports that people had been complaining during the evening that some 'guards' had been pointing their rifles at them. I would have expected he prosecution to concentrate on this rather than the actual killings. On their own, they may seem legitimate but when put in context, with armed civilians pointing guns at other civilians then it is provocation. My understanding is that prior provocation pretty much waives the right to self-defence.

Back to the first shooting, it was not possible to determine which wound came first but it is quite likely that he was shot in the hip first from a reasonable distance and Rosenbaum lunged forward as a result of this shot and was then shot in the hand and back. This means that the 'hand on the barrel' was more an attempt to shove it away in defence than to "wrestle" it from Rittenhouse.

If Rosenbaum really was making a lunge for Rittenhouse as he stopped and turned (the video suggested otherwise) then he could just have easily hit the little twat with the butt of his rifle and caused some major damage. The rifle is a great weapon for hitting someone with and much better than an imaginary chain. That would have been reasonable force in my view.

One hopes he'll do time for his stupidity.

----------


## Troy

> The legality of the gun is irrelevant in a self defense case


I think it is very pertinent to the case. The reason for an age restriction is presumably to ensure the owner is mature enough to know when to to take it out of the gun safe and where to use it.

----------


## helge

> Brown and black boys get shot dead walking with Skittles or playing with toy guns in their own neighborhoods. This guy gets driven by his mum across state lines armed with an assault rifle, dropped into a rally and gets waved on by the cops after he’d shot people dead and allowed to be driven home by his mum again.
> 
> How many of the defenders of Kyle Rittenhouse would be cool with Black teenagers from different states walking around their neighborhoods during rallies with assault rifles to 'maintain peace and order'? Gonna say 'none'. If he were Black it would be an entirely different narrative and we all know it.
> 
> Whenever Black men arm themselves all the '2A!' types suddenly see a need for gun controls. America racist as fuck.


Who is defending Kyle ?

Who is defeding the "racist US" ?

Has this to do with racisme ?

A screwed kid who builds up his ego with a gun and thereby authority, gets in severe trouble with other screwed jerks and mentaly ill folks, who attends a "demonstration" for nothing more than rioting, destruction and such...for the thrill of it.

In my small world, a demonstration is a gathering, where you can bring your kids.
If you can't; leave !

Those creeps are counter productive to the BLM movement and so are you, with your defence of the Rittenhouse "victims".

Man up and admit that you have misjudged the whole thing.

----------


## helge

> Was he legally allowed to carry that assault rifle on the streets of Kenosha?


He'll get to answer for that

Will Grosskreutz have to ?



> ..but there is a mass of evidence to support his claim of self defense, regardless of his other actions that night.


Without knowing, I think so too



> The rush to judgement from the MSM and even the President is a national disgrace....not to mention the Teakdoor legal team who wish him to be convicted and burned at the stake without even the trouble and expensive of an actual trial.


That

Well said and I rest my case.

If there is something I despice, it would be the TD inquisition.

 :yerman:

----------


## helge

> So, you despise people having an opinion, either for or against, Helge?


You can have your opinion.
Goes without saying

Hasn't, in MY opinion been the case here,

Has more had the flavour of ridiculing Backspin, than the objective view on this piece of ridiculous american bizarro.

What is your ..objective view, PH ?

Could be that you posted it already, but I haven't seen it

Drowned in ....your other posts ?

 :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> Could be that you posted it already, but I haven't seen it


Many times, Helge, perhaps you're more intent on having a go, specifically pertaining to my mother recently - and surprisingly.

----------


## helge

> specifically pertaining to my mother recently - and surprisingly.


Let it go, or we'll both be sorry tomorrow.

These few post should dissapear soonest

----------


## Backspin

> He could just have easily hit the little twat with the butt of his rifle and caused some major damage. 
> One hopes he'll do time for his stupidity.


Sure. Lets say the gun was fake. And Rittenhouse took out a knife and stabbed Rosenbaum in the neck, it would still be self defense. No different than it is now. When someone lunges into your personal space , after threatening your life, you are allowed to defend yourself.

----------


## Backspin

> Rittenhouse's performance theatre on the stand is being rightly pilloried.
> 
> Mind, I suppose when Ricky Schroder is your acting coach it's never going to be a performance to trouble the Academy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering I was banned for _*Checks*_ no reason at all I don't know if 'let' is the right term.




In 2017, the okay hand gesture acquired a new and different significance thanks to a*hoax by members of the website 4chan* to falsely promote the gesture as a hate symbol, claiming that the  gesture represented the letters wp, for white power. The okay  gesture *hoax* was merely the latest in a series of similar 4chan *hoaxes*  using various innocuous symbols; in each case, the hoaxers hoped that  the media and liberals would overreact by condemning a common image as  white supremacist. 

In the case of the okay gesture, the* hoax* was so successful the symbol  became a popular trolling tactic on the part of right-leaning  individuals, who would often post photos to social media of themselves  posing while making the okay gesture.

Okay Hand Gesture | Anti-Defamation League

----------


## Saint Willy

> Let it go, or we'll both be sorry tomorrow.
> 
> These few post should dissapear soonest


That won’t erase the fact you typed them.

----------


## Saint Willy

> Brown and black boys get shot dead walking with Skittles or playing with toy guns in their own neighborhoods. This guy gets driven by his mum across state lines armed with an assault rifle, dropped into a rally and gets waved on by the cops after hed shot people dead and allowed to be driven home by his mum again.
> 
> How many of the defenders of Kyle Rittenhouse would be cool with Black teenagers from different states walking around their neighborhoods during rallies with assault rifles to 'maintain peace and order'? Gonna say 'none'. If he were Black it would be an entirely different narrative and we all know it.
> 
> Whenever Black men arm themselves all the '2A!' types suddenly see a need for gun controls. America racist as fuck.



And pass laws such as the 1967 Mulford Act

----------


## bsnub

> There are stupid people and then there is you.


Right, and you would be one of the stupid people along with the moron backspin.

----------


## bsnub

> In 2017, the “okay” hand gesture acquired a new and different significance thanks to ahoax by members of the website 4chan to falsely promote the gesture as a hate symbol, claiming that the gesture represented the letters “wp,” for “white power.” The “okay” gesture hoax was merely the latest in a series of similar 4chan hoaxes using various innocuous symbols; in each case, the hoaxers hoped that the media and liberals would overreact by condemning a common image as white supremacist.
> 
> In the case of the “okay” gesture, the hoax was so successful the symbol became a popular trolling tactic on the part of right-leaning individuals, who would often post photos to social media of themselves posing while making the “okay” gesture.
> 
> Okay Hand Gesture | Anti-Defamation League


Of course you left out the most important part of the article...




> Ironically, some white supremacists themselves soon also participated in  such trolling tactics, lending an actual credence to those who labeled  the trolling gesture as racist in nature. By 2019, at least some white  supremacists seem to have abandoned the ironic or satiric intent behind  the original trolling campaign and used the symbol as a sincere  expression of white supremacy, such as when Australian white supremacist  Brenton Tarrant flashed the symbol during a March 2019 courtroom  appearance soon after his arrest for allegedly murdering 50 people in a  shooting spree at mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand.


*The ‘okay’ hand sign has moved from trolling campaign to real hate symbol, civil rights group says*


The  traditional hand gesture for “okay” is now considered a sign of hatred,  along with 35 other signs, by a prominent Jewish civil rights  organization that maintains a database of hate symbols.

The  “okay” sign, which some associate with white supremacy, joins other  images and slogans associated with far-right extremism in the  Anti-Defamation League’s “Hate on Display”  database. The organization also added the “Dylann Roof Bowlcut,” a man  with a moon-shaped head and an image of a Jewish man greedily rubbing  his hands together.

Many  of the new symbols in the database are associated with the alt-right,  and several are popular on anonymous message boards, including 4chan and  8chan, according to the ADL. Some of the images and slogans have spread  to mainstream websites, such as Facebook and Twitter.

“These are the latest calling cards of hate,” Mark Pitcavage, senior fellow at ADL’s Center on Extremism, said in a statement. “While some hate symbols are short-lived, others take on a life of their own and become tools for online trolling.”

The  ADL resisted adding the “okay” symbol to its Hate on Display database,  which also includes swastikas, the Aryan Brotherhood’s logo and the Nazi  Party’s flag. The idea that the gesture, made by touching the thumb and  forefinger, secretly symbolizes white supremacy began as a troll  campaign by some segments of the political right and far-right to incite a reaction from liberals and the media.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...ts-group-says/

----------


## panama hat

> Of course you left out the most important part of the article...


Of course the halfwit did as it doesn't suit his agenda


Interestingly the 'ok' gesture in places uses the middle finger and thumb . . . that's how I use it.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Right, and you would be one of the stupid people along with the moron backspin.


Yaaa ok Napoleon

----------


## Backspin

> Of course you left out the most important part of the article...


Show me the news release from a real white supremacist organization that said they adopted the "ok/perfect" hand signal. That is all speculative nonsense. Fact is, it originated as a hoax.

----------


## bsnub

> Show me the news release from a real white supremacist organization that said they adopted the "ok/perfect" hand signal.


Why would any dumb racists make such a statement, you imbecile?




> Fact is, it originated as a hoax.


Just like the Gadsden flag was at one point a symbol to be proud of until it was co-opted by nutcases. The same exact thing happened with the ok hand signal, you brain-dead clown. It is now a secret handshake for shitbags like you.

----------


## Cujo

So they're deploying 500 national guard troops I assume in anticipation of unrest in the event he's found not guilty.
That judge is an ass.

----------


## Backspin

George Floyd’s nephew, Cortez Rice, makes a claim that he knows people taking photos of jurors during the Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha, Wisconsin. His goal is to dox jurors if they do not convict

https://twitter.com/Johnmcurtis/stat...833360389?s=20

----------


## panama hat

> George Floyd’s nephew, Cortez Rice, makes a claim that he knows people taking photos of jurors during the Kyle Rittenhouse trial in Kenosha, Wisconsin. His goal is to dox jurors if they do not convict


Oh, do fuck off, halfwit.
Twitter . . . where's the 'RAW' data you promised?





> So they're deploying 500 national guard troops I assume in anticipation of unrest in the event he's found not guilty.
> That judge is an ass.


What are the odds of a mistrial being called . . . the judge has been a joke.

----------


## Hugh Cow

I would like to know who takes a weapon like an assault rifle or any gun to a rally or protest? I would think that establishes intent to do harm at the very least without the actual outcome. In Oz you would probably be shot by police before you got to the rally if you went carrying a rifle. I am glad to live in a society of very few firearms.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Fact is, it originated as a hoax.


Fact is, it is now a recognized sign used by white supremacists and it's beta as fcuk.

I feel both are reasons you're so triggered by it.

----------


## Edmond

^ Are you still beta-irked by the temporary subforum ban?  :Smile: 




> I would like to know who takes a weapon like an assault rifle or any gun to a rally or protest?


A decent, upstanding member of the community, voluntarily putting their life in danger to protect the property of others. :-)

----------


## aging one

> A decent, upstanding member of the community, voluntarily putting their life in danger to protect the property of others. :-)


Boy oh boy you have got your big net out today.   :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

> Are you still beta-irked by the temporary subforum ban?


No. It looks like the mod(s) have learned the error of their ways... the cnuts.  :Very Happy: 




> A decent, upstanding member of the community, voluntarily putting their life in danger to protect the property of others. :-)





> _If we permit vigilantes to come to tense conflict areas armed with assault-style rifles and to claim self defense after KILLING people—even though they made themselves willing combatants in the danger zone—God help us all. We will have lost all reason._


And a violent kid with delusions who sucker punches girls.

----------


## beachbound

> A decent, upstanding member of the community, voluntarily putting their life in danger to protect the property of others. :-)


Yeah, he’s a regular Eagle Scout.

“*Bro I wish I had my fucking AR. l’d start shooting rounds at them.”-Kyle Rittenhouse*

----------


## AntRobertson

> Yeah, he’s a regular Eagle Scout.
> 
> “*Bro I wish I had my fucking AR. l’d start shooting rounds at them.”-Kyle Rittenhouse*


Yep, what an absolute charmer:

Video shows Kenosha shooter Kyle Rittenhouse punching a girl: report

Weird that grown men would fetishize and idolize that.

----------


## Backspin

> Oh, do fuck off, halfwit.
> Twitter . . . where's the 'RAW' data you promised?
> 
> 
> What are the odds of a mistrial being called . . . the judge has been a joke.



Hit a nerve  :smiley laughing:  Its literally George Floyd's nephew in the video. You fucking twat

----------


## panama hat

> Hit a nerve


 No, what nerve would you be referring to?





> Its literally George Floyd's nephew in the video.


No shit, Sherlock . . . that wasn't what I was referring to, proving yet again that you are a


> fucking twat

----------


## Backspin

> Yep, what an absolute charmer:
> 
> Video shows Kenosha shooter Kyle Rittenhouse punching a girl: report
> 
> Weird that grown men would fetishize and idolize that.



Fake news.  :Sad:  No positive identification of Rittenhouse at all. Just the back of a head. Random video uploaded by random people to the social med.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Weird that grown men would fetishize and idolize that.





> Fake news.    No positive identification of Rittenhouse at all. Just the back of a head. Random video uploaded by random people to the social med.


So weird.

----------


## nidhogg

> Our daily reminder that the legality of the gun is IRRELEVANT if and when the threshold of self defense has been met. And if you think this isn't true then post something that backs up your claim.  
> 
> Classic Self-Defense: , whether the weapon used in self-defense is lawfully possessed doesnt matter. The five core elements of self-defense  innocence, imminence, proportionality, avoidance, and reasonableness  dont make any reference whatever to the legality or illegality of ones defensive weapon.


Not intended as a reply to backspit, but more as a general observation - the first basis for self-defense is "innocence".  Surely a strong case can be made that Rittenhouse was not, in any way "innocent".  The American legal doctrine of "fruit of the poisonous tree" would seem to have some application here - establishing that he was in possession of an illegal weapon would surely invalidate the basis of "innocence".

Still, we shall see.

----------


## Edmond

> establishing that he was in possession of an illegal weapon would surely invalidate the basis of "innocence".
> 
> Still, we shall see.


The legality of the weapon does not affect a charge of self defense.

----------


## beachbound

> Fake news.


This is why a debate with you, is pointless. 
Your go-to argument is, and will always be taken from the Trump playbook of “it’s fake news.”

----------


## Hugh Cow

Fake news is trumpanese for validation of the truth.

----------


## koman

Dear me, it looks like our TD legal team is becoming more desperate by the hour.   We have references to everything from some video that shows someone punching a girl involved in a fight with another girl...to the unsuitable judge; the trailer trash mother; approval of the Miami "proud boys"...and the absolute jem from CNN...of "white  privilege on steroids"...
Of course none of this nonsense has anything to do with the question at the heart of the matter....ie..did Rittenhouse shoot in self defense...or not???
That is what the trial is about.... everything else is just bullshit... posturing, virtue signalling and hot air.   So far we have not had howls of "white supremacists" on the jury
but we can be sure that will come after the verdict if it's doesn't turn out the way CNN wants.

----------


## aging one

> but we can be sure that we come after the verdict if it's doesn't turn out the way CNN wants.


WTF?  The way CNN wants? Give me a break, you have stated you think he should get off on self defense. Of which I wholeheartedly disagree with.




> I've watched this trial right from the opening statements and all I say is that Mr Rittenhouse is clearly guilty of being quite stupid and showing poor judgement by taking an assault weapon to a place that was volatile and getting himself into some serious trouble....but there is a mass of evidence to support his claim of self defense, regardless of his other actions that night.

----------


## AntRobertson

> the usual stalkers will be along soon to issues the standard petty insults.





> Dear me, it looks like our TD legal team is becoming more desperate by the hour.   We have references to everything from some video that shows someone punching a girl involved in a fight with another girl...to the unsuitable judge; the trailer trash mother; approval of the Miami "proud boys"...and the absolute jem from CNN...of "white  privilege on steroids"...
> Of course none of this nonsense has anything to do with the question at the heart of the matter....ie..did Rittenhouse shoot in self defense...or not???
> That is what the trial is about.... everything else is just bullshit... posturing, virtue signalling and hot air.   So far we have not had howls of "white supremacists" on the jury
> but we can be sure that will come after the verdict if it's doesn't turn out the way CNN wants.


...wut?

This thread isn't and has never been just about the trial.

----------


## koman

No, it has not just been about the trial.. That goes without saying, but it has been about the guilt or innocence of Rittenhouse with respect to the charges of murder.
The trial is now near the end and a verdict will be reached based on a minute examination of actual evidence.  The opinions, pre judgements, and virtual signalling of folks like you have no bearing on the matter.

----------


## AntRobertson

> The opinions, pre judgements, and virtual signalling of folks like you have no bearing on the matter.


'People Are Discussing Things I Don't Want Them To!', says person who is probably the first to cry 'bUT mA FReEDuMs!'

----------


## nidhogg

> The opinions, pre judgements, and virtual signalling of folks like you have no bearing on the matter.


Uh, absolutely.

but you kinda seem to be missing the idea behind a forum......

----------


## koman

^^
WTF is that supposed to mean...
I'm staying an opinion same as everyone else....or do you think that opinions should only be in lockstep with your own.

----------


## AntRobertson

> WTF is that supposed to mean...
> I'm staying an opinion same as everyone else....or do you think that opinions should only be in lockstep with your own.


So if it's ok for you to state an opinion why such a stick up your ass about others stating theirs. :Dunno: 

There's only one person currently crying here about others discussing things they don't want them to.

----------


## nidhogg

> WTF is that supposed to mean...
> I'm staying an opinion same as everyone else....or do you think that opinions should only be in lockstep with your own.


no.  But you were the one slamming people for expressing opinions.....

----------


## koman

Actually, I was attempting to point out the errors of rushing to judgement before the evidence has been examined.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Actually, I was attempting to point out the errors of rushing to judgement before the evidence has been examined.


You failed miserably and instead came off as all insulting, condescending, and trying to silence others.

----------


## Troy

> Sure. Lets say the gun was fake. And Rittenhouse took out a knife and stabbed Rosenbaum in the neck, it would still be self defense. No different than it is now. When someone lunges into your personal space , after threatening your life, you are allowed to defend yourself.


That would very much depend on whether the lunge was an act of last ditch defence against a rifle being pointed at you. However, the evidence was not conclusive for the prosecution.

If the aggression shown by Rosenbaum earlier could be proved to be due to the armed guards pointing rifles at civilians, or just being armed, then his aggression could be argued as being provoked. However, he was aggressive towards a guy with an extinguisher so this is also inconclusive . 
It very much depends on whether bringing an assault rifle to a protest is justified and if 4 shots ifrom a high powered rifle s reasonable force. 

I didn't see any evidence that Rosenbaum was specifically targeting people with rifles in order to steal it.

----------


## Edmond

> We have references to everything from some video that shows someone punching a girl involved in a fight with another girl...to the unsuitable judge; the trailer trash mother; approval of the Miami "proud boys"


They're just desperately grasping at thin air because they were/are wrong.

That or trolling.


Who could not support an innocent young man, that risked his young life and went out of his way to protect the property of strangers.

----------


## bsnub

> That or trolling.


Odd because that is exactly what I think you are doing.  :Smile:

----------


## aging one

> That or trolling.





> Who could not support an innocent young man, that risked his young life and went out of his way to protect the property of strangers.


Trolling personified.

----------


## Edmond

> Who could not support an innocent young man, that risked his young life and went out of his way to protect the property of strangers.


Young man. Check.
Risked his young life. Check.
To protect the property of others. Check.
Innocent. Check.


The only charge he may be found guilty of is the possession charge (a misdemeanor).

Which was done out of love for society, risking his freedom (and his life!), just so he could help to protect society and the property of strangers.

----------


## Cujo

> Not intended as a reply to backspit, but more as a general observation - the first basis for self-defense is "innocence".  Surely a strong case can be made that Rittenhouse was not, in any way "innocent".  The American legal doctrine of "fruit of the poisonous tree" would seem to have some application here - establishing that he was in possession of an illegal weapon would surely invalidate the basis of "innocence".
> 
> Still, we shall see.


well there's no question he isn't innocent of illegally being on possession of the weapon. The question is, is he innocent of murder?

----------


## AntRobertson

> Who could not support an innocent young man, that risked his young life and went out of his way to protect the property of strangers.





> Young man. Check.
> Risked his young life. Check.
> To protect the property of others. Check.
> Innocent. Check.





> Weird that grown men would fetishize and idolize that.


Check.  :Sad:

----------


## Troy

> that risked his young life and went out of his way to protect the property of strangers.


He had no reason to do so. He had no permission to be on the property. He was ordered not to go back on the property by the police. He had no licence to provide medical support. He had no licence to carry the rifle. 

He had no business whatsoever being there and should have stayed at home.

Still if you think it's okay for kids to go around with powerful weapons and shoot at people when they get scared then fair enough. Thank goodness it would never happen where I live.

----------


## Edmond

> He had no permission to be on the property.


Is there a charge of trespassing? 

Risking a trespassing charge in order to help the safety of the public and their property.  :Yup:

----------


## harrybarracuda

He'll probably get off with self defence. It's just a shame no-one managed to get one through his head to thin out the shallow end of the gene pool.

----------


## Backspin

> He'll probably get off with self defence. It's just a shame no-one managed to get one through his head to thin out the shallow end of the gene pool.



If killing the 2 geniuses that attacked a person armed with an AR-15 isn't thinning out the shallow end of the gene pool, I don't know what is.

None of this would have happened if 3 people didn't violate the most basic norms of sanity.

----------


## AntRobertson

> the shallow end of the gene pool




It's like when all those fat fuck moron white supremacists start going on about being 'the superior race...'

----------


## Backspin

> It's like when all those fat fuck moron white supremacists start going on about being 'the superior race...'


Photoshopped.  :Thumbsdown: 

Rosenbaums father was a pedophile. https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...oting-victims/

----------


## AntRobertson

> shallow end of the gene pool




His mom isn't even 40.  :Sad:

----------


## Bonecollector

> His mom isn't even 40.


100% she has a gunt

----------


## Edmond

> They're just desperately grasping at thin air because they were/are wrong.


And even attacking an innocent young man's mother now. :/

----------


## AntRobertson

Just shows that nothing ages more than hate and stupidity......socal is fucked.

----------


## Backspin

> His mom isn't even 40.


Source ?

Wendy Rittenhouse - Wiki

Wendy Rittenhouse is the mother of Kyle Rittenhouse. She is a nurses assistant. She is a single mother of _Kyle Rittenhouse_. They have been living in the apartment in Antioch which lies in the south of_ Wisconsin border_. Kyle shot the demonstrators who were shooting on the protest Black Lives Matter of Jacob Blake.
Wendy  Rittenhouse is also suspected by the cops. Police is unknown whether  she has dropped her son during that day of shooting. Kyle Rittenhouse  shotted Two of the Demonstrators. Anthony Huber and Joseph D Rosenbaum  are the two victims of _Kenosha protest_.


*Name*
Wendy Rittenhouse

*Age*
55-60 years

----------


## AntRobertson

LULZ...the one woman beta cuck incel tries to white knight for and it's a horrible slapper that drove her son across state lines with a weapon he shouldn't have and dropped him in a place he shouldn't have been.

Trailer park trash solidarity yo!

----------


## Edmond

> And even attacking an innocent young man's mother now.


Because she's pasty-white, ginger and saggy eyed.



The energy, time and stress of raising a young man that risks not only his freedom... but his life... to help protect the property of strangers.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Trailer park trash solidarity yo!


They're circling the wagons, I mean trailers!  :Very Happy:

----------


## Edmond

> beta cuck incel



No flaming or abuse allowed. All posts should include your opinion on the subject, not your opinion of the member posting

Please respect the rules of Speakers Corner.

----------


## AntRobertson

> They're circling the wagons, I mean trailers!


I'll give them this though those low-IQ genetic throwbacks are good at solidarity. 

Herd mentality I suppose. Like sheep.

----------


## Troy

> Source ?
> 
> Wendy Rittenhouse - Wiki


You really need to learn to cross check your sources...that one looks to have been written by a five year old.

You could always check her facebook account...

----------


## beachbound

> Wendy Rittenhouse is the mother of Kyle Rittenhouse. She is a nurse’s assistant. She is a single mother of _Kyle Rittenhouse_. They have been living in the apartment in Antioch which lies in the south of_ Wisconsin border_. Kyle shot the demonstrators who were shooting on the protest” Black Lives Matter” of Jacob Blake.
> Wendy  Rittenhouse is also suspected by the cops. Police is unknown whether  she has dropped her son during that day of shooting. Kyle Rittenhouse  shotted Two of the Demonstrators. Anthony Huber and Joseph D Rosenbaum  are the two victims of _Kenosha protest_.


When did you start writing for Wikipedia, Backspit?

----------


## Bonecollector

::chitown::

----------


## panama hat

> First. Trial by public opinion....driven by...Trial by MSNBC, CNN et al.
> Trial by social media...and trial by Teakdoor.
> 
> Then we have the actual trial with a judge, jury, and experienced trial lawyers to present facts, evidence and a suitable amount of theater.
> The Teakdoor legal team who wish him to be convicted and burned at the stake without even the trouble and expensive of an actual trial.





> You do realise that a forum is there to exchange views . . . views YOU may not agree with, views that have no bearing on a trial in WI, views that are made by laymen . . . That, in essence, is what a chat forum is about.





> but we can be sure that will come after the verdict if it's doesn't turn out the way CNN wants.





> The opinions, pre judgements, and virtual signalling of folks like you have no bearing on the matter.


Still, the penny hasn't dropped as to what a forum is all about



> I'm staying an opinion same as everyone else....or do you think that opinions should only be in lockstep with your own.


Ah, so it would be correct for others to tell you to stop because your wittering has no bearing on the outcome of the case . . . and that FOX will decide his innocence.

----------


## Samuel

Reasonable people can say that Rittenhouse provoked the attack with his actions beforehand and that he lacked common sense. 

Those same people can say that when he was under attack, he ran away and didn't use his gun until the last second — as self-defense, allowed under the law. 

I'm guessing the reasonable people of the jury (approved by the prosecution and defense) will convict him of a lesser charge for the killings and an illegal weapon possession charge: He'll get 10 years and serve half of that. 

We'll see.

----------


## Backspin

> You really need to learn to cross check your sources...that one looks to have been written by a five year old.
> 
> You could always check her facebook account...


I simply asked for a source. So far nobody has produced one.

----------


## panama hat

> I simply asked for a source. So far nobody has produced one.


Many are still waiting for your 'sources' - why not start there

----------


## Norton

> I'm guessing the reasonable people of the jury (approved by the prosecution and defense) will convict him of a lesser charge for the killings and an illegal weapon possession charge


Rittenhouse has been informed by the judge that if he agrees the judge will inform the jury that they can opt to convict on lesser charges. If Rittenhouse does not agree then jury can only deliberate on the current charges. Will all depend on his legal team's assessment of strength of their case which they feel is strong enough to bring a not guilty charge.

Kyle Rittenhouse's attorney says he has PTSD; judge to rule on including lesser charges - CNN

----------


## Samuel

^

Rittenhouse already agreed:




> Jury to get to weigh some lesser charges in Rittenhouse case
> 
> Schroeder told Rittenhouse that by including the lesser charges, “you’re raising the risk of conviction, although you’re avoiding the possibility that the jury will end up compromising on the more serious crime. And you’re also decreasing the risk that you’ll end up with a second trial because the jury is unable to agree.”
> 
> 
> Rittenhouse said he understood.

----------


## Norton

> Rittenhouse already agreed:


Well, there ya go. Shows my ignorance re this trial.  :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> Rittenhouse already agreed:


This says to me (to ME, Koman - and I know my opinion won't sway the jury, lawyers or the judge in this trial) that Rittenhouse's lawyers know he'll be found guilty and are happy to cop a lesser charge or sentence.

If only they had a less contentious judge . . . why do they so often think they're the main gig at these things . . .

----------


## tomcat



----------


## koman

> This says to me (to ME, Koman - and I know my opinion won't sway the jury, lawyers or the judge in this trial) that Rittenhouse's lawyers know he'll be found guilty and are happy to cop a lesser charge or sentence.
> 
> If only they had a less contentious judge . . . why do they so often think they're the main gig at these things . . .


No argument on that position.
The list of charges is quite long and at the very least he would be found guilty on the illegal weapon charge.

He may be well be found guilty on some of the other charges as well, bur the "self defense" case is strong and well supported by video evidence and accounts of threats to his life by Rosenbaum... .being attacked while laying on the ground and having a handgun pointed at him etc etc....
The jury has a lot to argue over.

----------


## koman

Apparently the judge is now being bombarded with threats to himself and his family.   American society seems to have descended into chaos and virtual barbarism.

----------


## panama hat

> The list of charges is quite long and at the very least he would be found guilty on the illegal weapon charge.


True . . . the mother should cop something as well, I'd suggest . . . no, I'm not a lawyer but my wife is  :Smile: 





> being attacked while laying on the ground and having a handgun pointed at him etc etc....


Yes, that's only one incident, though.  Simply put the jerk should not have been there in the first place.




> The jury has a lot to argue over.


Yes.  I was recently a juror at two cases here . . . nasty, nasty stuff . . . but as you said, there are so many things to consider even when the case is relatively clear and there is more than one charge.





> Apparently the judge is now being bombarded with threats to himself and his family.


Unacceptable . . . he should have been simply the judge, not try to portray himself as the 'star' of the show.  Honestly, he came across as an angry drunk . . . and the 'not a victim' ruling?  Simply scandalous.





> American society seems to have descended into chaos and virtual barbarism.


It takes less and less to happen it seems . . . the cretin simply should not have been there, driven there by his mother, in the first place.

----------


## AntRobertson

> American society seems to have descended into chaos and virtual barbarism.


This is a thread about a minor who went to a protest over racial injustice armed with an assault rifle at a time when even the president espoused violent rhetoric, his party continues to undermine democracy and is currently engaged in book bannings, and the right to own and carry weapons is more precious and hard fought for than the right to affordable healthcare. 

What tipped you off?

----------


## nidhogg

> Reasonable people can say that Rittenhouse provoked the attack with his actions beforehand and that he lacked common sense. 
> 
> Those same people can say that when he was under attack, he ran away and didn't use his gun until the last second  as self-defense, allowed under the law. 
> 
> I'm guessing the reasonable people of the jury (approved by the prosecution and defense) will convict him of a lesser charge for the killings and an illegal weapon possession charge: He'll get 10 years and serve half of that. 
> 
> We'll see.


This is kind of it.  Us observers all see the events in a different light, but in the end none of it matters a toss, as our views on it are just that, our views.  

The case will wend its way to a conclusion that probably pretty much every one will disagree on.  How many times have we seen trials where the verdict makes us go "WTF??".

But that is the American legal system, where technicalities often far outweigh any degree of common sense or even justice.

The only lingering question is why some people (backspit for example) put their whole heart and soul into it.  It is what it is, and what will be will be.

----------


## Backspin

The gun was stored at his friends house within the state. But either way, some ppl cant seem to understand that the US isn't Australia, it isnt Canada or the UK.




> (backspit for example) put their whole heart and soul into it.


I just found it fascinating

----------


## nidhogg

> I just found it fascinating


It is interesting, but being so dogmatically vested in the outcome is just, well, immature to be honest.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It is interesting, but being so dogmatically vested in the outcome is just, well, immature to be honest.


Are you surprised stupid kid idolises stupid kid with gun?

----------


## AntRobertson

> Are you surprised stupid kid idolises stupid kid with gun?


That's about the sum of it. Definite affinity there. 

And whether he is found guilty or innocent Rittenhouse has become the literal and figurative poster boy for losers everywhere.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That's about the sum of it. Definite affinity there. 
> 
> And whether he is found guilty or innocent Rittenhouse has become the literal and figurative poster boy for losers everywhere.


Let's hope they don't all seek to emulate their "hero".

----------


## helge

> And whether he is found guilty or innocent Rittenhouse has become the literal and figurative poster boy for losers everywhere.


Why would you say that ?

Reply# 1 on this thread by your favorite "victim" ...Backspin.



> I am not a gun-tard. This kid is still an idiot for going to the riots to be the hero. And bringing a gun. And Seppos are all idiots. But according to Seppo rules, this kid is not guilty of murder.


He called it pretty ...accurate, in my opinion

So how are you doing, Mr Alleged Lawyer ?

----------


## AntRobertson

> Why would you say that ?







> So how are you doing, Mr Alleged Lawyer ?


There, there helge... Let all that butthurt out.

----------


## AntRobertson

> _"We live in an era in which threats of violence, from the likes of Gosar; acts of violence, from the likes of Rittenhouse; & incitement of violence, from the former president...are being normalized & even amplified daily. This is the modern right."_
> 
> --Mehdi Hasan





> "The next few years will be a period of political violence such as we haven't seen in this country for decades,” @jgoldsto tells @MehdiRHasan about the rise of political violence in America. “I do think we will see Americans taking up arms against other Americans."


Apparently survey says 21M people think that the use of force to reinstall Trump as president would be justified.

The US is faaaaaarked.

----------


## harrybarracuda

I didn't realise the kid was a hippo hunter.

----------


## Edmond

> I didn't realise the kid was a hippo hunter.


The betas have gone after his mother, no doubt they'll be focusing their frustrations onto other such things soon 5555

----------


## AntRobertson

> The betas have gone after his mother


The woman who drove her larping beta minor son across state lines illegally armed with an assault rifle and dropped him in the middle of a protest in contravention of city ordinance?

I can't imagine why. Parent Of The Year material.

 :Dunno:

----------


## Norton

> 21M people think that the use of force to reinstall Trump as president would be justified.
> 
> The US is faaaaaarked.


6% of population or near anything hardly makes for a faaaarked label.

----------


## AntRobertson

I feel you're missing the operative part of the sentence and the point there Norts: *"...think that the use of force to reinstall Trump as president would be justified"
*
21M is far from an unsubstantial number for anything much less people who think violence over a lie is justifiable.

What if 6% of that 6% arms themselves and decide to try it. Or even just 6 of them.

----------


## bsnub

> The betas have gone after his mother, no doubt they'll be focusing their frustrations onto other such things soon 5555


Odd. I never would have pegged you for a trumpanzee but here we are. 

 ::chitown::

----------


## Edmond

> The betas have gone after his mother, no doubt they'll be focusing their frustrations onto other such things soon 5555


Still beta-freaking about his mother, with the addition of bringing an ex-president into it.  :Very Happy: 

They are a cute lot. 


What's been going on today... or have the absurd charges been laughed out of court already?  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Well the judge is instructing the jury and closing arguments will start soon.

If you have IPTV it's on the "Law & Crime" channel.

----------


## beachbound

The judge just dismissed the weapons charge.
I think the redneck Rambo is going to walk.

----------


## harrybarracuda

He's rattling through these instructions like he's bored and wants to hit the golf course.

----------


## harrybarracuda

He was talking so much bollocks that he actually just stopped and stared into space for ages....

And then said he'd lost himself mid sentence and he didn't like it.

As they are saying, if he can't understand his own instructions, how can the jury?

----------


## harrybarracuda

So they've sent the jury out while they explain to him how he's fucking up so badly.

This has all the elements of a mistrial. He doesn't seem to even understand what he's on about.

Fucking hell he's getting himself into a right mess.

----------


## harrybarracuda

He's so distracted he's even given the wrong instructions on one of the counts. Unbelievable.

Jury coming back in.

----------


## helge

He is ....different

----------


## beachbound

Both sides have only been given 2 1/2 hours for their closing arguments. Rittenhouse, and the judge are scheduled to speak at a Trump rally later this evening, and they don’t want to keep The Donald waiting.

----------


## panama hat

> Rittenhouse, and the judge are scheduled to speak at a Trump rally later this evening, and they don’t want to keep The Donald waiting.


The sad thing is that this would surprise no-one.

----------


## helge

> The woman who drove her larping beta minor son across state lines illegally armed with an assault rifle and dropped him in the middle of a protest in contravention of city ordinance?


Not what I heard

Wasn't he in Kenocha working as a lifeguard ?
The gun was there ?

So she didn't take him or the gun there ?

And didn't drop him in the riots ?

----------


## Edmond

> Wasn't he in Kenocha working as a lifeguard ?
> The gun was there ?
> 
> So she didn't take him or the gun there ?
> 
> And didn't drop him in the riots ?


Beta-implosion imminent.  :Smile:  



Are the not guilty verdicts expected today or tomorrow?

----------


## AntRobertson

> Wasn't he in Kenocha working as a lifeguard ?


Nope.

He was there lying about being a certified EMT.




> The gun was there ?
> 
> So she didn't take him or the gun there ?
> 
> And didn't drop him in the riots ?


On further checking apparently not, he went there with his sister.

----------


## koman

> The judge just dismissed the weapons charge.
> I think the redneck Rambo is going to walk.


The weapons charge was dismissed because the defence raised a motion based on an exception in the law that it was not an illegal firearm because of the barrel length.  Like it or not, that's the  way the law was written.  It is customary for trial judges to follow statuary laws...��

----------


## Troy

The prosecution gave a good summary yesterday. They managed to get the provocation instruction and that is crucial for a conviction.

^ Prosecution didn't measure barrel length in court. Possession of rifle by 16 and above is allowed for the purposes of hunting and range shooting. Rule is dubious so Judge right to dismiss it.

----------


## nidhogg

I believe the technical issue of the gun was bought up in October, and the judge refused to rule on it.

Problem is, as he did not issue a ruling, the prosecution could not appeal the decision at a higher court.  The fact that the "judge" then issues a ruling hours before final arguments and deliberation, is, at best, unfortunate and at worst, downright manipulative and biased.

----------


## tomcat



----------


## Edmond

People.

Will be.

Furious.

----------


## Samuel

Yep, the national guard is on standby in case what the jurors decide makes liberal activists angry and then show their unhappiness by rioting.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Yep, the national guard is on standby in case what the jurors decide makes liberal activists angry and then show their unhappiness by rioting.


I presume the Proud Gayboys are on standby in case it goes the other way.

----------


## Samuel

> I presume the Proud Gayboys are on standby in case it goes the other way.


The Proud Boys (brawling with BLM boys, mostly in the PNW) have a long way to go to match the destruction the liberal activists have caused in recent years. 




> ​Exclusive: $1 billion-plus riot damage is most expensive in insurance history - Axios
> 
> The vandalism and looting following the death of George Floyd at the hands of the Minneapolis police will *cost the insurance industry more than any other violent demonstrations in recent history,* Axios has learned.
> 
> 
> Why it matters: The protests that took place in 140 U.S. cities this spring were mostly peaceful, *but the arson, vandalism and looting that did occur will result in at least $1 billion to $2 billion of paid insurance claims.*..

----------


## harrybarracuda

So the Proud Gayboys are on standby then.

----------


## Samuel

> So the Proud Gayboys are on standby then.


They are a small group of suburban young punks (15-30 year olds) with dumb ideas. 

You don't have to worry, Harry. 

I doubt they have a branch in Kenosha. 

;-)




> Proud Boys - Wikipedia
> 
> According to David Neiwert, the Proud Boys recruit with emphasis on right-wing 15-/30-year-old white males who come primarily from suburbs and exurbs

----------


## harrybarracuda

> They are a small group of suburban young punks (15-30 year olds) with dumb ideas.


Yes and how old is the wannabe in the dock again?

----------


## AntRobertson

Being in a right wing hate group ages you terribly:

----------


## Samuel

Let's put it this way:  Nobody in Kenosha thinks the National guard is there to help protect them from rioting by the proud boys. 


 ::doglol::

----------


## AntRobertson

Are you sure? You also don't think racism is an issue and AmeriKKKa racist asf.

----------


## Samuel

> You also don't think racism is an issue


Not true. 

Anyways, why do you keep on bringing race into this thread? 

Just curious how you think it is a factor in this trial.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Anyways, why do you keep on bringing race into this thread?


I don't.




> Just curious how you think it is a factor in this trial.


Are you asking how is race an issue in a trial about shootings by a Trump supporter that occurred during protests over a Black man being shot seven times by police? Dunno real head scratcher that one.

And apropos of fuck all: 'If the Kyle Rittenhouse murder trial is called the Kyle Rittenhouse murder trial why isn’t the Ahmaud Arbery lynching called “The Gregory McMichael, 65; his son Travis McMichael, 35; and their neighbor William Bryan, 52 - lynching trial”?'

----------


## AntRobertson

> Okay, so you think Rittenhouse is a racist, right?
> 
> Honestly, do you think jurors should be considering that (Rittenhouse is a racist) in their deliberations?
> 
> 
> If you were a juror, would you?


What an odd question and (not) only for the odd use of (parentheses).

I certainly wouldn’t bet against Rittenhouse being racist but what relevance does that have to a trial over shooting three white dudes.

----------


## Samuel

FYI:  This trial isn't about race. 

In America, you have to get the jury to decide "beyond a reasonable doubt". 

Did the prosecution prove a case that it wasn't "self-defense" beyond a reasonable doubt. 

Don't think so.

----------


## Samuel

> I certainly wouldn’t bet against Rittenhouse being racist but what relevance does that have to a trial over shooting three white dudes.


exactly.

----------


## AntRobertson

Nobody: ...



> FYI: This trial isn't about race.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> FYI:  This trial isn't about race. 
> 
> In America, you have to get the jury to decide "beyond a reasonable doubt". 
> 
> Did the prosecution prove a case that it wasn't "self-defense" beyond a reasonable doubt. 
> 
> Don't think so.



It isn't that simple. The prosecution simply needs to convince the jury that Rittenhouse initiated the actions that led to him killing three people and self defense is off the table.

That's why they spent closing arguments exposing his lies and reminding the jury about comments he made to the effect that he didn't feel threatened.

They also made a big point of the fact that the first shot shattered the victim's (Rosenbaum's) pelvis and put him on the floor, so shooting him another three times probably wasn't in "self defence".

I think that that one incident is going to be a huge part of the decision.

But I didn't hear how the judge corrected his instructions to the jury, which frankly were so incomprehensible that it looked like both the defence AND the prosecution had to ask him what the fuck he was on about.

----------


## Samuel

> Nobody: ...


Fair enough — liberal commentators can bring race into it, if they wish. 

Though, good to see that inside the courtroom you agree it shouldn't be an issue  for the jury.





> I certainly wouldn’t bet against Rittenhouse being racist but what relevance does that have to a trial over shooting three white dudes.

----------


## Samuel

> The prosecution simply needs to convince the jury that Rittenhouse initiated the actions that led to him killing three people and self defense is off the table.


Do you think the jury was convinced?

Were you?

----------


## AntRobertson

> Fair enough — liberal commentators can bring race into it, if they wish.


I think you're misunderstanding the word "nobody".

Which liberal commentators have brought race into it?

The only person I've seen mention racism directly in regards to the trial is you.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Fair enough  liberal commentators can bring race into it, if they wish. 
> 
> Though, good to see that inside the courtroom you agree it shouldn't be an issue  for the jury.


The difference between the prosecution and the defence is that the prosecution have said the trial is not political, it's a murder trial.

The defence of course are claiming the complete opposite.

----------


## Samuel

Ant: We agree:  




> I certainly wouldn’t bet against Rittenhouse being racist but what relevance does that have to a trial over shooting three white dudes.


Wait for Edmond to post to find someone you disagree with and debate with. 

 :Wiggle:

----------


## AntRobertson

> Ant: We agree:





> Which liberal commentators have brought race into it?
> 
> The only person I've seen mention racism directly in regards to the trial is you.


Can you not answer the question?

----------


## Samuel

> Can you not answer the question?


I guess I didn't understand what you meant by this:




> Nobody: ...


Anyways, ant:  we agree:




> I certainly wouldnt bet against Rittenhouse being racist but what relevance does that have to a trial over shooting three white dudes.

----------


## AntRobertson

> I guess I didn't understand what you meant by this:
> 
> 
> Anyways, ant: we agree:


Ok so in point of fact no 'liberal commentators have brought race into it' and you remain the only one to have directly referenced racism in regard to the trial. 

Yes, agreed.

----------


## Edmond

> Edmond


In the middle of flouncing for having his SC posts removed.

----------


## Samuel

The jurors are being selected live on TV:  Rittenhouse is picking his 6 out of a can.

----------


## beachbound

> rittenhouse is picking his 6 out of his kkk hat.


…ftfy…

----------


## Edmond

^ hood.

(still have a few minutes to edit it and no one will know)

----------


## Edmond

> The jurors are being selected live on TV:  Rittenhouse is picking his 6 out of a can.


Hope they hurry up.

Just a brown wooden crest for the last 10 minutes. Wanna take a shower and troll some websites.

----------


## Samuel

> rittenhouse is picking his 6 out of his kkk hat.


Maybe you don't understand how juries are chosen:  both sides decide who are the jurors. 

Though, I understand how you are worried by their prejudice:  

Their fucking city was trashed by the liberal mob (big time) — if you don't know.

----------


## Backspin

How long is this gonna take.. I thought we'd have some answers by now

----------


## beachbound

> Wanna take a shower.


Has it been a month already?

----------


## helge

> Their fucking city was trashed by the liberal mob (big time) — if you don't know.


I don't know

Is there any reason to assume, that the daytime antiracist demonstrators are identical with the nighttime vandals ?

And is there any reason for antiracist demonstrators to be solely "liberal" ?

Do you define "liberal" as something political ?     "Not republican " perhaps ?

There is in my opinion no reason for a conservative ..not to take part in a demonstration against use of excessive force by the police.

I know many conservatives with a heart in the right place.

They aren't that bright, but nevertheless.. :Smile:

----------


## beachbound

> There is in my opinion no reason for a conservative ..not to take part in a demonstration against use of excessive force by the police


 Unless the Orange Buffoon told them not to.

----------


## helge

> Unless the Orange Buffoon told them not to.


So you reckon that there are no conservatives, who are "independent" of Trump ?

Are you in reality as narrowminded as the Trump supporters ?

----------


## beachbound

> is there any reason for antiracist demonstrators to be solely "liberal" ?


Not sure if I have the stomach to go back and read Samuel‘s comments on the threads for the Capital Riots, or the Charlottesville Unite the Right riots, but I’m wondering if he was as critical of the actions of the far right extremist groups that caused the mayhem in those two events.

----------


## beachbound

Plenty of conservative/Republican, who are anti-Trump. Just being facetious.

----------


## tomcat



----------


## AntRobertson

Why in the name of fuckery was Rittenshouse allowed to pick names like some sort of warped game show.

This judge is all kinds of weird.

----------


## panama hat

> This judge is all kinds of weird.


Hopefully all the judge's bizarre actions will lead to a mistrial . . . and the judge's sacking.

----------


## beachbound

this judge is a piece of work.

_Kyle Rittenhouse judge stops mid-sentence during jury instructions_

Video: Kyle Rittenhouse judge stops mid-sentence during jury instructions - CNN Video

----------


## Edmond

They're gonna be spittin' about all dis and dat, and all dat and dis, when he's cleared and enjoying a deserved drink while having a laugh with his friends.

----------


## baldrick

> Do you define "liberal" as something political ?


Am I allowed to be of libertine alignment ?

----------


## AntRobertson

He didnt impose order. He didnt stop a riot. He left a trail of bodies on the ground, and two of the people he shot were acting on the belief that Rittenhouse himself was an active shooter. He had, after all, just killed a man. 

David A French

----------


## Edmond

> two of the people he shot were acting on the belief that Rittenhouse himself was an active shooter.


And not being an active shooter, he defended himself from these dummies accordingly. :-) 


You could be his defense lawyer.  :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

...it's saying something when it has reached the point that I take FaRT's input in this thread more seriously than yours.  :Very Happy: 


“If the jury acquits Rittenhouse, it will not be a miscarriage of justice. The law gives even foolish men the right to defend their lives. But an acquittal does not make a foolish man a hero.”

—Also David A French

----------


## Edmond

This French lad should sign up, makes far more sense than the spitty-hissy princesses.  :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

How weird is it that people are trying to normalize a 17 year old kid bringing an assault rifle to a protest though.

 :Dunno:

----------


## AntRobertson

"A black kid, who did something akin to what Rittenhouse did, would never have come to trial, because he would be dead. On the off chance that he did, he would be tried as an adult."

—Paula Poundstone

----------


## AntRobertson

“White privilege:

Ahmaud Arbery was not allowed to be black, running, and unarmed.

Kyle Rittenhouse is allowed to be white and parading through another city with a high-powered weapon and end two stranger's lives.”

—John Pavlovitz

----------


## cyrille

> How weird is it that people are trying to normalize a 17 year old kid bringing an assault rifle to a protest though.


America! FVck Yeah!

----------


## Edmond

> They're gonna be spittin' about all dis and dat, and all dat and dis


Hoooolee schamoley they don't half whinge and whine.  :Bigeyes:

----------


## helge

> How weird is it that people are trying to normalize a 17 year old kid bringing an assault rifle to a protest though.


Who is "normalizing" it beside americans ?



> Kyle Rittenhouse is allowed to be white and parading through another city with a high-powered weapon and end two stranger's lives.”


Yes
And ?

This is not NZ or Europe



> America! FVck Yeah!


Oh !
This guy got it

Good

----------


## Backspin

> How weird is it that people are trying to normalize a 17 year old kid bringing an assault rifle to a protest though.


This is the USA



The protest:

----------


## Edmond

> a 17 year old kid bringing an assault rifle to a protest


A brave young man, volunteering to risk his life, in order to help protect the public's property from violent, armed protesters. 

Even risking criminal charges (and eventually having to defend his young life) in the pursuit of protecting the property of his fellow citizens. 


Every city could do with more Kyles.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> A brave young man, volunteering to risk his life, in order to help protect the public's property from violent, armed protesters. 
> 
> Even risking criminal charges (and eventually having to defend his young life) in the pursuit of protecting the property of his fellow citizens. 
> 
> 
> Every city could do with more Kyles.


fucking hell even spliff can do better than that.

 :rofl:

----------


## Edmond

I thought it was pretty good.  :Smile:

----------


## helge

> I thought it was pretty good.


Me too

If I wasn't so damn civilized and well mannered, I'd call him( harry) triggered.

But that would be distasteful on this thread

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Me too
> 
> If I wasn't so damn civilized and well mannered, I'd call him( harry) triggered.
> 
> But that would be distasteful on this thread


That would be because you're a dumb scandihooligan twat who didn't understand my post or Edmond's.

Christ you're as thick as shite.

----------


## Edmond

_#help.others


#protect.the.public.


#be.kyle_

----------


## Edmond

> you're a dumb scandihooligan twat
> 
> you're as thick as shite


posters should stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.

​Please respect the rules of SC.

----------


## helge

> That would be because you're a dumb scandihooligan twat who didn't understand my post or Edmond's.


I'd understand it any way you'd prefer, Trigger Darling



> Christ you're as thick as shite.


You even have weird prayers, pervert

----------


## harrybarracuda

It seems the jury want to see the drone video again.

The defence had tried very hard to keep it out of the court.

Now they're trying to claim they got a different version to everyone else.

----------


## Edmond

> It seems the jury want to see the drone video again.
> 
> The defence had tried very hard to keep it out of the court.
> 
> Now they're trying to claim they got a different version to everyone else.


Squeaky bum time? 


Kylie will be twitchy.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Jesus this fucking judge keeps having brain spasm or something. Just stops mid sentence and stares into space.

I think they should be checking him for a stroke.

----------


## tomcat

> I think they should be checking him for a stroke.


...I think the #KyleDefenseFund should award him a cash bonus for services rendered...

----------


## AntRobertson

> Who is "normalizing" it beside americans ?
> 
> Yes
> And ?
> 
> This is not NZ or Europe


If there's a dumb question to be asked or quote deliberately altered and taken out of context, helge is yer man.

----------


## nidhogg

> If there's a dumb question to be asked or quote deliberately altered and taken out of context, helge is yer man.


One of those posters that runs under the radar for years.  When they do pop up, you realize what an utter twat they are.

----------


## AntRobertson

> One of those posters that runs under the radar for years.  When they do pop up, you realize what an utter twat they are.


Yep. 

He takes both-siding to farcical, arguing from bad faith, levels.

----------


## harrybarracuda

So the defence are asking for a mistrial because the prosecution cleaned up the video for their presentation but gave the defence the original, compressed video.

The jury are still reviewing it anyway, but the judge has yet to rule.

Probably because he's still staring into space trying to remember what the fuck he was on about.

----------


## Backspin

If the state withheld footage because it is better , then the case has to be tossed with prejudice. It just has to be

----------


## nidhogg

As I read it, the prosecution sent the video from an android phone to an iPhone, and the data was compressed by the iPhone.

No malice on the part of the prosecution, technology snafu.

----------


## panama hat

> It just has to be


Does it, though, Backspit?





> tossed with prejudice


 :rofl:

----------


## Backspin

EXPLAINER: What'&#39;'s behind Rittenhouse mistrial requests? - ABC News

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Does it, though, Backspit?


I think skidmark tosses with prejudice a lot.

----------


## Cujo

Oh, FFS. a bit of a tangent. 



> Matt Gaetz said his office is open to hiring Kyle Rittenhouse as a congressional intern if he's 'interested in helping the country in additional ways'
> Matt Gaetz said on Wednesday that he thought Kyle Rittenhouse would make a good congressional intern.
> 
> "We may reach out to him and see if he'd be interested in helping the country in additional ways," Gaetz said of Rittenhouse.
> Florida congressman Matt Gaetz said he thought Kyle Rittenhouse would make a good congressional intern and said he may contact him to make the job offer happen if he's "interested."
> 
> In an interview on Newsmax on Wednesday, Gaetz spoke up in defense of Rittenhouse, saying he deserved a "not guilty" verdict even as a 12-person jury continues to deliberate the verdict.
> 
> "He deserves a not guilty verdict, and I sure hope he gets it because you know what, Kyle Rittenhouse would probably make a pretty good congressional intern," Gaetz said. "We may reach out to him and see if he'd be interested in helping the country in additional ways."
> ...


Matt Gaetz Says He May Hire Kyle Rittenhouse As a Congressional Intern
What a scummy sleazebag that Gaetz is. There are so many of them in the Republican party.
PS. feel free to move if this post detracts from the conversation.

----------


## AntRobertson

Hasn’t Matt Gaetz already ruined enough teenagers lives

----------


## Edmond

Every city do with such upstanding citizens working for them.




> A brave young man, volunteering to risk his life, in order to help protect the public's property from violent, armed protesters. 
> 
> Even risking criminal charges (and eventually having to defend his young life) in the pursuit of protecting the property of his fellow citizens. 
> 
> 
> Every city could do with more Kyles.


 :Yup:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Hasn’t Matt Gaetz already ruined enough teenagers lives


Does Kyle know what's expected of him?

He might be safer in prison.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Does Kyle know what's expected of him?
> 
> He might be safer in prison.


Do Congressional interns get paid?

By Venmo in Gaetz's case I suppose.




> Every city do with such upstanding citizens working for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Edmond
> 
> ...


...



I'm embarrassed for you?  :Sad:

----------


## cyrille

Jeezus - he's actually recycled that lame troll?

----------


## Samuel

I wonder if the threats of a "mistrial" actually take pressure off the jury — could be good for Rittenhouse.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Jeezus - he's actually recycled that lame troll?


I swear I actually caught myself mid-cringe on seeing it.

----------


## Edmond

> recycled


Just wait til he's cleared.  :Smile:

----------


## Samuel

> Every city do with such upstanding citizens working for them.





> Just wait til he's cleared.


Eddie:  Granted the liberal mob was out of control in Kenosha as the police had stood down. 


Though, just curious as to why you are such a strong supporter of Rittenhouse stepping in to "protect property".

----------


## Cujo

If a mistrial is declared does he get tried again ?

----------


## Samuel

> If a mistrial is declared does he get tried again ?


From what I've read, it's up to the prosecution. 

And, then the defendant may accept a plea bargain.

----------


## Edmond

> just curious as to why you are such a strong supporter of Rittenhouse stepping in to "protect property".



Those bricks could well be looted, Samuel.

----------


## Samuel

> Those bricks could well be looted, Samuel.


Ideologically, why do you support rittenhouse?

----------


## helge

> If there's a dumb question to be asked or quote deliberately altered and taken out of context, helge is yer man.


Altered ?

And deliberately ?

Is that double konfetti, Anthony ? :Smile: 



> One of those posters that runs under the radar for years. When they do pop up, you realize what an utter twat they are.


Thanks, Nignogg

Whoever you are ? American ?

Mod ?



> Yep.
> 
> He takes both-siding to farcical, arguing from bad faith, levels.


When I take the time to point out your errors and your usual eating up all the fake MSNBC  news, that suits your narrowminded agenda, I'm the one with ...."bad faith" (whatever that is) ?

I have told you before that I appreciate nuances, and am not a fan of dogma .....and posters like you, who has nothing better to do than stalk the board.

Have you apologiesed to Wendy Rittenhouse yet, for your false accusations ?

Nah

I know that you hate being caught out and admitting that you were wrong, so an apology is probably a bit too much to ask.


But then again, Anthony

There probably is many issues, where we stand on common ground.

Hurts, doesn't it ?

Sweet dreams

----------


## Edmond

> Wendy Rittenhouse


All this must be awful. Just awful. Let's hope and pray she's keeping well.

----------


## beachbound

> By Venmo in Gaetz's case I suppose.

----------


## helge

> Let's hope and pray she's keeping well.


A situation that only mothers like you and me will understand, Edwina

----------


## Backspin

> If a mistrial is declared does he get tried again ?


Only if it's a miss trial with prejudice

----------


## Troy

^ Mistrial with prejudice means the case cannot be tried again. Mistrial without prejudice means that it can be tried again.

The defence team filed a motion for mistrial with prejudice following the prosecution attempt to submit evidence that the judge had ruled could not be submitted.

The defence team filed a motion for mistrial without prejudice for the different quality video they received.

----------


## malmomike77

Americans really have turned the legal system into a farce, trouble is the money involved is encouraging other countries judiciaries to follow suit.

----------


## Edmond

> Americans really have turned the legal system into a farce


Remember the Kids for Cash scandal?

American judges sending thousands of children to their mate's privately owned prisons for moolah. 


Maybe the prosecutors in this case are involved in a similar scheme given the ludicrous charges.

----------


## beachbound

> Maybe the prosecutors in this case are involved in a similar scheme given the ludicrous charges.

----------


## Troy

^ Indeed, if there's one thing I've learnt over the last few weeks, it's that edmond/lulu/mao is a pathetic troll. 

The fact that he has done so in such a high profile case makes him all the more disagreeable and I would like to think he will hang his head in shame whatever the outcome.

----------


## cyrille

He has no shame about the shit he got up to that got him banned as Chairman Mao, so he isn't going to be feeling that emotion anytime soon.  :Sad:

----------


## Cujo

> ^ Indeed, if there's one thing I've learnt over the last few weeks, it's that edmond/lulu/mao is a pathetic troll. 
> 
> The fact that he has done so in such a high profile case makes him all the more disagreeable and I would like to think he will hang his head in shame whatever the outcome.


It's an online forum. Not the jury room. I think you're taking it all too seriously.

----------


## Edmond

He's been like that for as long as I've known him. 

Deserves to be locked up more than Kylie, to be honest.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> He's been like that for as long as I've known him. 
> 
> Deserves to be locked up more than Kylie, to be honest.


A fucking schizo as well then.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Three days of deliberations and one of the jurors even asked to take the judge's jury instructions home.

If they can't decipher his gibberish they're never going to reach an unanimous verdict.

Which was probably his intention.

----------


## Bonecollector

Justice!

Kyle Rittenhouse: US teenager cleared over Kenosha killings - BBC News

----------


## S Landreth

............

----------


## Backspin

> Both lulu and skiddy banged on like this for months, saying the same shit in the Derrick Chauvin thread. Skiddy posted up the same type of alt-reich nonsense over in that thread. Both of them stopped posting over there after he was found guilty.


 ::chitown::

----------


## helge

> Kyle Rittenhouse: US teenager cleared over Kenosha killings - BBC News


Can't be bothered to open the link.

Well done, Backy

Outdid the MuttaFuckers

----------


## Backspin

> He's been like that for as long as I've known him. 
> 
> Deserves to be locked up more than Kylie, to be honest.


Justice.

Not guilty of all charges. Nothing will be on his record for this.

----------


## helge

I reckon the Mutties will give you a bow, Backspin

Get ready for an avalanche of greens

 :rofl: 

Nah

----------


## HermantheGerman

MARK RICHARDS for PRESIDENT !

Biden is a TWAT !

----------


## harrybarracuda

Did anyone expect anything else after this judge's shit show?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> MARK RICHARDS for PRESIDENT !
> 
> Biden is a TWAT !


Looks like the squarehead has been on the laughingbrew again.

----------


## Joe 90

Does this mean there's gonna be more riots and shootings?

----------


## helge

Probably

----------


## Joe 90

About due some more American riots on the news it's been a while now.

They keep showing re-runs of the LA riots and Rodney King beating to keep us titilated in the UK.

----------


## helge

> Does this mean there's gonna be more riots and shootings?


And do the "protectors of property"now have a free pass to "protect" ?

Good luck, America

----------


## Backspin

Sometimes I wonder if the ppl arguing for murder charges really believed it. 

Ah well

----------


## tunk

Sad day for us older Americans. A redneck, piece of shit, white supremacist went to Konosha hunting. murdered two people and walks away a free man. He will probably get rich because he murdered two people. What has become of my country.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Sad day for us older Americans. A redneck, piece of shit, white supremacist went to Konosha hunting. murdered two people and walks away a free man. He will probably get rich because he murdered two people. What has become of my country.


Please show your evidence for redneck and white supremacist.

----------


## beachbound

No surprise, at all. Nearly all white jury, free to return home each night, to turn on Fox News, to get their daily dose of “Kyle the hero” propaganda.

----------


## panama hat

> Please show your evidence for redneck and white supremacist.


Shown many times with the Proud Boys 






> Sad day for us older Americans. A redneck, piece of shit, white supremacist went to Konosha hunting. murdered two people and walks away a free man. He will probably get rich because he murdered two people. What has become of my country.


It really is a shambles

----------


## Bonecollector

> Sad day for us older Americans. A redneck, piece of shit, white supremacist went to Konosha hunting. murdered two people and walks away a free man. He will probably get rich because he murdered two people. What has become of my country.


Please show your evidence for redneck and white supremacist.





> Shown many times with the Proud Boys


Proud boys are not rednecks nor are they white supremacists otherwise a guy called Enrique Tarrio wouldn't be allowed as their chairman. 

Enrique Tarrio - Wikipedia

----------


## Bonecollector

> It really is a shambles


Well I am glad at least one child fucker got what he should have got previously when he raped a child, a bullet in the head.

----------


## Saint Willy

Charming

----------


## Backspin

> No surprise, at all. Nearly all white jury, free to return home each night, to turn on Fox News, to get their daily dose of “Kyle the hero” propaganda.


Nearly all white jury he says ! You know the victims were all white as a ghost right ? And that the US is a majority white country right?

----------


## beachbound

> Nearly all white jury he says ! You know the victims were all white as a ghost right ? And that the US is a majority white country right?


You know that Fox News viewers are exclusively white, right? You know Fox News has been spewing the “Kyle is a hero“ propaganda since day one, right?

Thank you for helping me prove my point. Now run along, the Tucker Carlson Conspiracy Hour is about to start.

----------


## Bonecollector

> You know that Fox News viewers are exclusively white, right? You know Fox News has been spewing the “Kyle is a hero“ propaganda since day one, right?
> 
> Thank you for helping me prove my point. Now run along, the Tucker Carlson Conspiracy Hour is about to start.


It wasn't going to be long before someone mentioned Fox news and Tucker Carlson. Blinkered lemmings.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Looks like the squarehead has been on the laughingbrew again.


Looks like our Limey is a sore looser  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  ....again  :rofl:

----------


## Bonecollector

Just a peaceful protestor huh

----------


## Backspin

> You know that Fox News viewers are exclusively white, right? You know Fox News has been spewing the “Kyle is a hero“ propaganda since day one, right?
> 
> Thank you for helping me prove my point. Now run along, the Tucker Carlson Conspiracy Hour is about to start.


You know that not all black people are left wing flakes right ? You are race profiling and race baiting on a topic that has nothing to do with race

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Sad day for us older Americans. A redneck, piece of shit, white supremacist went to Konosha hunting. murdered two people and walks away a free man. He will probably get rich because he murdered two people. What has become of my country.


Why? Don't you remember the O.J. Simpson trial?
Trump reflects of what America has become and the list goes on and on and on........

Ohh and don't forget, the storming of the White House. Now that was hilarious. It was a bit like a commercial break.

Plenty of sad days ole fellow.

----------


## Joe 90

::spin:: 

 :Smile:

----------


## katie23

Just having breakfast & watched the BBC report of this on YT. I'm just shaking my head. Tsk tsk tsk...

@backspin - yes the USA is a majority white adult country for now. In 10 or 20 years, it won't be. Back in 2014 or 2015, majority of school age children were from minority groups - blacks, Latinos, Asians, Pacific islanders, native Americans, etc. When those kids grow old enough to vote...

Dept. of Ed. projects public schools will be 'majority-minority' this fall | Pew Research Center

Edit - ^ that article came out in 2014

White Students are Now the Minority in U.S. Public Schools

^that article was from 2019

----------


## cyrille

Well that wasn’t completely predictable at all.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## tomcat

> White Students are Now the Minority in U.S. Public Schools


...possibly because so many white students are now in religious/private schools to protect them from minorities...

----------


## OhOh

Interesting to hear, there still is the Rule of Law in the NaGastan, not just a Rules Based Order.

*Statement by President Biden                   *  

November 19, 2021 

_"I urge everyone to express their views peacefully, consistent with the  rule of law.  Violence and destruction of property have no place in our  democracy."

Access Denied
_

----------


## katie23

> ...possibly because so many white students are now in religious/private schools to protect them from minorities...


Yeah probably, but there's no denying that the demographics of the USA are changing and this makes the MAGA crowd feel threatened.

----------


## beachbound

> You are race profiling and race baiting on a topic that has nothing to do with race


You don’t come across as the sharpest tool in the shed, so I’ll type slowly, and maybe you’ll understand. 
The mostly white jury was not sequestered. 
White people watch Fox News. 
Kenosha County went to Trump in the last two elections. 
Fox News has been regurgitating the same talking points for months, that Kyle Rittenhouse was being railroaded. 
The verdict was not a surprise.

----------


## YourDaddy

Great day for America.

Let's also hope Trump wins the next election.

----------


## Samuel

> You don’t come across as the sharpest tool in the shed, so I’ll type slowly, and maybe you’ll understand.
> The mostly white jury was not sequestered.
> White people watch Fox News.
> Kenosha County went to Trump in the last two elections.
> Fox News has been regurgitating the same talking points for months, that Kyle Rittenhouse was being railroaded.
> The verdict was not a surprise.


The prosecution and defense agreed on the jury.

Can't blame the jury for being chosen from a large pool of people.

If the citizens of Kenosha have any prejudice that may have infected the jury — it's their disliking of the liberal protesters who trashed their city, not yet rebuilt to pre-riot days.

----------


## Edmond

> White people watch Fox News.


All of us?


Checks: 

White, yes.
Has ever watched Fox News, no.

 :Dunno:

----------


## Mandaloopy

Freedom. but a lifetime of looking over his back and dealing with civil lawsuits. Still sucks to be Kyle

----------


## beachbound

> All of us?
> 
> White, yes.
> Has ever watched Fox News, no.


My bad. I thought Fox News came free at all trailer parks. :Dunno:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Please show your evidence for redneck and white supremacist.


Did you not see the pictures of him doing white supremacist signs with a white supremacist group then?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Looks like our Limey is a sore looser  ....again


I assume you mean "loser" but what exactly did I lose?

 :Confused:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Freedom. but a lifetime of looking over his back and dealing with civil lawsuits. Still sucks to be Kyle


I wonder if his "supporters" would be as happy to pay out for civil lawsuits as they were for his legal defence?

----------


## Edmond

> I’ll type slowly, and maybe you’ll understand.
> The mostly white jury was not sequestered.
> White people watch Fox News.


Based purely on their race, you declare they committed an action that you view with distain.


Yeah, you're racist AF bro.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Based purely on their race, you declare they committed an action that you view with distain.
> 
> 
> Yeah, you're racist AF bro.


I don't think the jury was swayed by racism.

I think they were swayed by prosecution fuck ups, an incompetent and racist judge, and jury instructions so complicated that the result was inevitable.

"You can only find him guilty on count one if you have a P in your name, it's a Sunday, Kylie Minogue is at number one and you were born in October in a Ford Transit".

----------


## Backspin

> Freedom. but a lifetime of looking over his back and dealing with civil lawsuits. Still sucks to be Kyle



Nope. Nobody really cares about the white trash that he shot. Forgotten tomorrow bc they were white. If they were black , there'd be protests in London supporting them. And statues being made of them.

----------


## Backspin

> Did you not see the pictures of him doing white supremacist signs with a white supremacist group then?



The "white supremisist" sign was a hoax started online. Dont worry, you arent the only one who fell for the hoax

----------


## Backspin

> You don’t come across as the sharpest tool in the shed, so I’ll type slowly, and maybe you’ll understand. 
> The mostly white jury was not sequestered. 
> White people watch Fox News. 
> Kenosha County went to Trump in the last two elections. 
> Fox News has been regurgitating the same talking points for months, that Kyle Rittenhouse was being railroaded. 
> The verdict was not a surprise.


You are insane  :rofl: 

I am white and i hate Fox news. Why ? Because it's Boomer news. It's all about how great Boomers are. So Boomers should be eliminated from the jury. Let's get a count of the sexual orientation of that jury too eh. Not enough homosexuals maybe ? They watch the propaganda on CNN instead ?

You are a racist profiler

----------


## Backspin

> Just having breakfast & watched the BBC report of this on YT. I'm just shaking my head. Tsk tsk tsk...
> 
> @backspin - yes the USA is a majority white adult country for now. In 10 or 20 years, it won't be. Back in 2014 or 2015, majority of school age children were from minority groups - blacks, Latinos, Asians, Pacific islanders, native Americans, etc. When those kids grow old enough to vote...
> 
> Dept. of Ed. projects public schools will be 'majority-minority' this fall | Pew Research Center
> 
> Edit - ^ that article came out in 2014
> 
> White Students are Now the Minority in U.S. Public Schools
> ...


Did they say anything on the BBC about self defense ? 

It's strange how it is couched as progress , the less white people there is. Anyway this case had nothing to do with race. But our resident racial profiler is still trying to make it about race.

----------


## koman

Mr Rittenhouse must surely be America's most unique racist/white supremacist.  He has been tagged as such by Joe Biden (before a single item of evidence was presented).... and a whole range of talking heads on MSNBC, CNN etc.

Turns out that even the FBI did not find any communication between him and any movement or group that would place him in such a category.   One fuzzy photo of him standing with some people in a bar is enough to label him a Nazi it seems.

The volume of loud highly biased opinion on MSN and the highly charged inflammatory comments was disgraceful and he will no doubt sue their asses in due course.

The amount of race baiting, libel and slander is shocking as well as the threats to the judge, defense a
Lawyers and we even had an MSNBC person chasing after the jury bus !!     

The evidence was so compelling that 12 reasonable people came to a unanimous decision of not guilty on all counts....but it's never going to be enough for the baying mob.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The evidence was so compelling that 12 reasonable people came to a unanimous decision of not guilty on all counts....but it's never going to be enough for the baying mob.


It's enough. I certainly think the judge did a terrible job, but it doesn't matter a jot. He's not guilty in the eyes of the law and that's all that matters.

----------


## Samuel

> The evidence was so compelling that 12 reasonable people came to a unanimous decision of not guilty on all counts....*but it's never going to be enough for the baying mob.*


Yep, some of them had a temper-tantrum and rioted in Portland: 




> Deputies declare riot near Justice Center; KATU crew attacked | KATU
> 
> PORTLAND, Ore.  Several individuals dressed in all black with their faces covered attempted to keep a KATU camera crew from recording the events unfolding downtown Friday night after the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office declared a gathering of people a riot.
> 
> The individuals demanded the crew stop recording.
> 
> *The group then attacked the KATU camera operator when the crew asserted their right to record in a public space.* A confrontation occurred between the individuals and the TV station's security guards.


Video of the rioters attacking the camera:

*VIDEO WARNING: Extreme Profanity and Violence:*

Deputies declare riot near Justice Center; KATU crew attacked | KATU

----------


## koman

It doesn't take much to start a peaceful protest these days.

The "protest" in Kenosha resulted in over $50 million of property damage....all in the interests of racial equity.

----------


## sabang

I think the "Not guilty" verdict on all counts will result in a whole lot more property damage than $50MM.

----------


## Bonecollector

> I don't think the jury was swayed by racism.
> 
> I think they were swayed by prosecution fuck ups, an incompetent and racist judge, and jury instructions so complicated that the result was inevitable.
> 
> "You can only find him guilty on count one if you have a P in your name, it's a Sunday, Kylie Minogue is at number one and you were born in October in a Ford Transit".


They were swayed by the fact all three were criminals and the two that were rightful shot dead in the act of self defense were convicted of domestic abuse and one of child abuse. The guy who was injured was carrying a gun.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Mr Rittenhouse must surely be America's most unique racist/white supremacist.  He has been tagged as such by Joe Biden (before a single item of evidence was presented).... and a whole range of talking heads on MSNBC, CNN etc.
> 
> Turns out that even the FBI did not find any communication between him and any movement or group that would place him in such a category.   One fuzzy photo of him standing with some people in a bar is enough to label him a Nazi it seems.
> 
> The volume of loud highly biased opinion on MSN and the highly charged inflammatory comments was disgraceful and he will no doubt sue their asses in due course.
> 
> The amount of race baiting, libel and slander is shocking as well as the threats to the judge, defense a
> Lawyers and we even had an MSNBC person chasing after the jury bus !!     
> 
> The evidence was so compelling that 12 reasonable people came to a unanimous decision of not guilty on all counts....but it's never going to be enough for the baying mob.


Nothing is ever enough for them because they are not moral people. They are just angry people with psychological problems who want any reason to act out.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Did you not see the pictures of him doing white supremacist signs with a white supremacist group then?


If you or someone could find that picture, it would be beneficial to the thread. Tx Cuda

----------


## nidhogg

> If you or someone could find that picture, it would be beneficial to the thread. Tx Cuda

----------


## koman

More than that....they were attacking him.  He was not attacking any of them.   Others ran towards him but backed off and retracted...he did not fire at any of them.  He only fired at the ones that attacked him....and he gave himself up to the police as soon as he could reach them.

----------


## sabang

My feeling is that the pathetic crybaby is guilty of some crime and should be held accountable- but not first degree murder. I don't think that really had a chance of sticking.

----------


## koman

He did not cry.  He had a panic attack.  Hardly surprising considering the stress level.

----------


## sabang

> He did not cry.


He blubbered. It's kind of a scary thought that infants like that can perfectly legally walk the streets carrying a semi-automatic. Ferk, not my country.

----------


## nidhogg

> ...and he gave himself up to the police as soon as he could reach them.


No.  He did not.  He went home and turned himself in to his local police station.

----------


## Bonecollector

Thanks for those nidhogg, it definitely sheds more light on understanding his character, I feel he is still quite juvenile and possibily a loner who wants to feel part of something. I still think he is not guilty and his victims were white so I can't see any evidence this was racially motivated. The fact that the FBI could not find any links to any far-right or white supremacists groups, would lead me to believe he was a little coerced into making those gestures on that day. More images of him making the same gestures and hanging with the same people before and after this occurrence would sway me to believe otherwise. 

As Sabang said, he is probably guilty of some low level law but not of murder. It is generally considered in most places in America, that if someone steps to you with the intent of doing you harm, you are well within your rights to shoot that man/ women cold dead.

----------


## koman

^^
Fair enough...I thought it was the Kenosha police.  He turned himself in at around 1:30am in Antioch.
He was on video walking towards the police vehicles not far from the last shooting with his hands up.

----------


## koman

There is a good interview with Mark Richards ( lead defence lawyer) on NewsNation.  Seems like a good guy.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> More than that....they were attacking him.  He was not attacking any of them.   Others ran towards him but backed off and retracted...he did not fire at any of them.  He only fired at the ones that attacked him....and he gave himself up to the police as soon as he could reach them.


Oh you can fuck off with that nonsense.

He could have gone and found them after the first shooting.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> They were swayed by the fact all three were criminals and the two that were rightful shot dead in the act of self defense were convicted of domestic abuse and one of child abuse.


You don't really know much about the US legal system do you?

----------


## koman

> Oh you can fuck off with that nonsense.
> 
> He could have gone and found them after the first shooting.


Well, there was the small matter of being knocked down,  kicked in the head, smashed with a skateboard, and having a Glock shoved in his face on the way, and having to shoot two more attackers.  Likely shook him up a bit and confused him.  
He was only 17 at the time and obviously lacking your extensive experience of such violent and life threatening situations...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Well, there was the small matter of being knocked down,  kicked in the head, smashed with a skateboard, and having a Glock shoved in his face on the way, and having to shoot two more attackers.  Likely shook him up a bit and confused him.  
> He was only 17 at the time and obviously lacking your extensive experience of such violent and life threatening situations...


Fucking hell, now he's Rambo.

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## cyrille

> He was only 17 at the time and obviously lacking your extensive experience of such violent and life threatening situations...


Maybe harry's mum just wouldn't drive him?

Ever thought of that?  :Very Happy:

----------


## Backspin

> ^^
> Fair enough...I thought it was the Kenosha police.  He turned himself in at around 1:30am in Antioch.
> He was on video walking towards the police vehicles not far from the last shooting with his hands up.


He tried to turn himself into the local. Police on the scene but they yelled at him and waved him away

----------


## Backspin

> 


Still can't believe there's adults who think turning the clock back is legitimate reasoning in this case

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Maybe harry's mum just wouldn't drive him?
> 
> Ever thought of that?


That's a cracker that one sybille. You're a brilliant comedian.

You should have your own show. You could be the next Julian Clary or something.

----------


## Bonecollector

> You don't really know much about the US legal system do you?


I am not talking about the US legal system, I am talking about what effect that would have had on the Jury. I do know one thing about the US legal system, without money, it is a very dangerous place to be.

----------


## helge

> I do know one thing about the US legal system, without money, it is a very dangerous place to be.


That's what I heard

----------


## malmomike77

> Does this mean there's gonna be more riots and shootings?


And lots of shopping without having to pay - the community love a good free shop  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I am not talking about the US legal system, I am talking about what effect that would have had on the Jury. I do know one thing about the US legal system, without money, it is a very dangerous place to be.


Let me explain Manuel.

The Jury don't get to hear details of the witnesses' backgrounds.

They're not relevant to the case in hand.

For the same reason they didn't see a video of Rittenhouse beating up some woman.

However, civil trials have different rules.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Let me explain Manuel.
> 
> The Jury don't get to hear details of the witnesses' backgrounds.
> 
> They're not relevant to the case in hand.
> 
> For the same reason they didn't see a video of Rittenhouse beating up some woman.
> 
> However, civil trials have different rules.


I was under the impression that the judge had allowed this into evidence. I believe that is the terminology usually used.

----------


## Backspin

> Let me explain Manuel.
> 
> The Jury don't get to hear details of the witnesses' backgrounds.
> 
> They're not relevant to the case in hand.
> 
> For the same reason they didn't see a video of Rittenhouse beating up some woman.
> 
> However, civil trials have different rules.


That was not Rittenhouse. Not positively identified at all.

----------


## helge

> The Jury don't get to hear details of the witnesses' backgrounds.
> 
> They're not relevant to the case in hand.


I seem to remember, that the defence, had a major go at a witness in the OJ trial.

Mark Fuhrman

And rightly so; was that racist pig to be trusted ?

Nah

----------


## beachbound

> That was not Rittenhouse. Not positively identified at all.


If, in fact he wasn’t “positively identified”, then you can’t say “That was not Rittenhouse” ( well, you can because you’re an idiot. But a rational person wouldn’t. )

----------


## Edmond

Is betabound related to one of the armed nutters that chased, attacked, assaulted and attempted to steal from a kid?


Edit:



 :Bigeyes:  was only joshing, beachbuddy.


I, for one, fully support you and your interests/hobbies.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I was under the impression that the judge had allowed this into evidence. I believe that is the terminology usually used.


You were under the wrong impression.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I seem to remember, that the defence, had a major go at a witness in the OJ trial.
> 
> Mark Fuhrman
> 
> And rightly so; was that racist pig to be trusted ?
> 
> Nah


That was allowed because it wasn't to impugn the witness.

It was to cast doubt on the forensic evidence. It would have been an easy mistrial if the judge had tried to throw it out.

And in my opinion, that's what got him off.

When you have a hard core racist in charge of forensic evidence, which was all the prosecution really had, he made it incredibly simple for the defence to show reasonable doubt.

But being a racist wanker got him a nice gig with Fox News.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> If, in fact he wasn’t “positively identified”, then you can’t say “That was not Rittenhouse” ( well, you can because you’re an idiot. But a rational person wouldn’t. )


"You're an idiot" would have been quite sufficient.

----------


## RPETER65

> That was not Rittenhouse. Not positively identified at all.



Harry doesn’t care.

----------


## panama hat

> If, in fact he wasn’t “positively identified”, then you can’t say “That was not Rittenhouse” ( well, you can because you’re an idiot. But a rational person wouldn’t. )


 :rofl:  Confronting/confusing Backspit with logic . . .

----------


## Backspin

> a hard core racist 
> 
> But being a racist wanker got him a nice gig with Fox News.


You'd make a good hire when the topic of China comes up. :Smile:

----------


## Chico

So 41 pages long and they are still debating him,even though a white jury found him not guilty you couldn't make it up.

Well done BS for keeping them on their toes.....

----------


## YourDaddy

I bet snub is rioting in Portland from his keyboard

----------


## Chico

Why has he gone to meet J :Smile: ff?

----------


## Saint Willy

> Show me some pics or I wont believe he is racist.



Pic proffered. 





> More images of him making the same gestures and hanging with the same people before and after this occurrence would sway me to believe otherwise.








> would lead me to believe he was a little coerced into making those gestures on that day


Coerced? Was he coerced into bringing a gun to a demonstration? Was he coerced into shooting people? Does it change the fact? Can he take any responsibility?

----------


## Backspin

> Why has he gone to meet Jff?



 :rofl: 
Antifa rioters try to burn down Portland police building over Rittenhouse acquittal | The Post Millennial
*Antifa rioters try to burn down Portland police building over Rittenhouse acquittal*

----------


## Backspin

Spot the false propaganda hidden on the page. And this was the kind of news that some ppl here were reading.

----------


## pickel

^Got an actual link from The Independent for that?

----------


## Backspin

::chitown::

----------


## Cujo

'Three BLACK people'?
WTF?
A white Jury found a white guy innocent of murdering 3 white guys.
Though one was a jew, does that count as white? Why aren't the jews rioting?

----------


## panama hat

> Spot the false propaganda hidden on the page. And this was the kind of news that some ppl here were reading.





> ^Got an actual link from The Independent for that?


Yae, nah Backspit, this is just your usual lying bullshit.  Do you have a link from TI for the picture you posted?

----------


## Backspin

> ^Got an actual link from The Independent for that?



There is no way to prove to you that its not fake if you choose not to believe it. The headlines got fixed. Do you think someone like Glenn Greenwald would make it up ? He lives in Brazil and was the first to notice in Brazil  https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...267945472?s=20


Some international media got it wrong and have since corrected it. Maybe they sincerely thought the victims were black. Bad reporting but I'd understand why.

----------


## Backspin

> Yae, nah Backspit, this is just your usual lying bullshit.  Do you have a link from TI for the picture you posted?



So are they making up the corrections too ? https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...005607428?s=20

----------


## Edmond

Maybe Ritto can strap up and help to protect the public and their property from rioters and vigilantes. :-)

----------


## Norton

He's not guilty and prosecution cannot appeal. Give it a rest guys.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Harry doesnt care.


You're right, Harry doesn't care what idiots think.

----------


## panama hat

> He's not guilty and prosecution cannot appeal. Give it a rest guys.


Over and done - no-one is re-doing the trial.




> So are they making up the corrections too


You're making shit up again, then backtrack, go sideways, deflect etc . . .

----------


## harrybarracuda

> He's not guilty and prosecution cannot appeal. Give it a rest guys.


You think the ramifications of this case don't merit discussion?

Actually, it doesn't matter, you're not a mod.

----------


## Norton

> You think the ramifications of this case don't merit discussion?
> 
> Actually, it doesn't matter, you're not a mod.


Discuss your hearts out but as they say, case closed.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Discuss your hearts out but as they say, case closed.


This case might be, but it sends a message to every spotty wannabe that if they fancy playing vigilante they can grab a weapon and start shooting.

----------


## Stumpy

> You think the ramifications of this case don't merit discussion?


Nope.  Because in about 2 weeks this will all be forgotten and something new will make headlines and you will post about it over and over...

Nexxxxxxxt......

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Nope.  Because in about 2 weeks this will all be forgotten and something new will make headlines and you will post about it over and over...
> 
> Nexxxxxxxt......


Or in about two weeks some other pudgy incel betacuck will take to the streets with a gun and kill someone else.

Nexxxxxxxt......

----------


## marcusb

Read the thread first time today, wasn't really paying attention to the case but was bored tonight.    

 Page 1 BS pretty much calls the outcome, 40 pages of debate and insults and from what I see he was right.  555

Good call,  cheesehead...

----------


## Stumpy

> Or in about two weeks some other pudgy incel betacuck will take to the streets with a gun and kill someone else.
> 
> Nexxxxxxxt......


Not impossible at all.  Lots of odd ducks in the US ( and the world) . Someone will step up soon that we can all count on.  I followed a bit of it and like most of these high profile headliners it quickly becomes tainted with tons of garbage, lies and media BS.  

In the end he was found not guilty.  Case closed and we move on.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Not impossible at all.  Lots of odd ducks in the US ( and the world) .


Yes, but the US does have

- a rather large supply of incel betacucks

- a rather large supply of guns

----------


## Stumpy

> Yes, but the US does have
> 
> - a rather large supply of incel betacucks
> 
> - a rather large supply of guns


I dunno about all the "Betacuck" shit that seems to have hit TD and urban dictionary. Some new fangled name for the same people. Like "Woke" and "BLM" crap. People keeping coming up with new names for the same shit.

As for Guns, you bet. We have lots and probably always will. We can move on from that as well.  No point in whinging about it. 

Anything good in the News HB?  You seem to live to read it all and post relentlessly.

----------


## Norton

> something new will make headlines


This one for example. Probably needs a new thread.

Rittenhouse verdict flies in the face of legal standards for self-defense

----------


## HermantheGerman

> I assume you mean "loser" but what exactly did I lose?


YOUR TIME!

American trials are like tossing dices.

----------


## helge

> Read the thread first time today, wasn't really paying attention to the case but was bored tonight.
> 
> Page 1 BS pretty much calls the outcome, 40 pages of debate and insults and from what I see he was right. 555
> 
> Good call, cheesehead...


He did

And it irritates the fuck out of his stalkers  :Smile: 

Well done, Backspin

----------


## Edmond

Mod him up Nev.



Demote Hazza.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Mod him up Nev.
> 
> 
> 
> Demote Hazza.


I'm expecting a three year mod contract finishing really quickly with a GBP7.5 million pay off. Nothing less will do.

----------


## helge

> Mod him up Nev.


That would be fun watching him dealing with such power.



> Demote Hazza.


Demote an owner ?

Hmm

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That would be fun watching him dealing with such power.
> 
> 
> Demote an owner ?
> 
> Hmm



Do you use Ivermectin?

----------


## helge

> Do you use Ivermectin?


If you say so, Massa

----------


## harrybarracuda

> If you say so, Massa


Well I'm just trying to understand why you're so fucking retarded.

----------


## beachbound

> You think the ramifications of this case don't merit discussion?
> .


The mouthpieces on the right are going to put this kid on a pedestal, and pound the narrative that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun. 

Huge win for the NRA.

----------


## beachbound

> Read the thread first time today, wasn't really paying attention to the case but was bored tonight.    
> 
>  Page 1 BS pretty much calls the outcome, 40 pages of debate and insults and from what I see he was right.  555
> 
> Good call,  cheesehead...


Called the outcome? :smiley laughing: 

For fvcks sake, it was a 50-50 shot! The case came down to an opinion; an interpretation of the law.
A sequestered jury, a less-biased judge, and a better prosecutor, and this midget murderer is doing 25, to life.

----------


## Bonecollector

> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.”


I would definitely agree with that.

----------


## Bonecollector

> 'Three BLACK people'?
> WTF?
> A white Jury found a white guy innocent of murdering 3 white guys.
> Though one was a jew, does that count as white? Why aren't the jews rioting?


The Jews rightly disowned him after he raped a child.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Not impossible at all.  Lots of odd ducks in the US ( and the world) . Someone will step up soon that we can all count on.  I followed a bit of it and like most of these high profile headliners it quickly becomes tainted with tons of garbage, lies and media BS.  
> 
> In the end he was found not guilty.  Case closed and we move on.


Which only the stupid and bored seem to get so virile and abusive about

----------


## Edmond

> In the end he was found not guilty. Case closed and we move on.


It is what it is.

----------


## beachbound

> I would definitely agree with that.


Of course you would, but you’d be wrong. Just a stupid NRA catchphrase.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Of course you would, but you’d be wrong. Just a stupid NRA catchphrase.


I'd rather have a gun and not need it then not have it and need it. We are locked and loaded in Thailand and I am not even an American.

----------


## beachbound

> We are locked and loaded in Thailand..
> 
> I am not even an American.


Contrary to popular belief, stupidity is not exclusive to Americans.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Contrary to popular belief, stupidity is not exclusive to Americans.


Oh you witty rascal you.

----------


## Saint Willy

> Contrary to popular belief, stupidity is not exclusive to Americans.



Displayed loudly and proudly.

----------


## Norton

> I'd rather have a gun and not need it then not have it and need it. We are locked and loaded in Thailand and I am not even an American.


In my case it is locked but not loaded. Last thing wanted is to have one of my wee grandkids blow off their heads. If you own a fire arm please do this.

Guns | Safe Kids Worldwide

----------


## Stumpy

I have a few M18 Claymores strategically situated on my property. Also being an American I could have a few guns ( I'm not saying, might ruin the element of surprise  :Smile:  ). I however prefer my crossbow with carbon fiber bolts and broadheads.  Quiet and deadly.

I highly encourage ringing the bell at our gate and smile at the camera.   :smiley laughing:

----------


## Bonecollector

> In my case it is locked but not loaded. Last thing wanted is to have one of my wee grandkids blow off their heads. If you own a fire arm please do this.
> 
> Guns | Safe Kids Worldwide


I definitely agree with you, our kids are not young anymore and the gun in our car does not ride in the same fashion.

----------


## Bonecollector

> I have a few M18 Claymores strategically situated on my property. Also being an American I could have a few guns ( I'm not saying, might ruin the element of surprise  ). I however prefer my crossbow with carbon fiber bolts and broadheads.  Quiet and deadly.
> 
> I highly encourage ringing the bell at our gate and smile at the camera.


Claymores are awesome, never got to one in the bode, the max I had the delight of using was an M-205, that was a fun day. I keep an axe under the seat of my car, what can I say, the viking blood still runs strong in me. Bows are however fine weapons and are definitely a great and challenging weapon to hunt with. Any experience with a longbow?

----------


## Samuel

> https://www.thedailybeast.com/kyle-r...ticles&via=rss
> 
> I am not a racist person. I support the BLM movement, Rittenhouse continued. I support peacefully demonstrating.


.....

----------


## YourDaddy

Latest news Snub lost it in Wisconsin behind red SUV

----------


## Stumpy

> Latest news Snub lost it in Wisconsin behind red SUV


See. I told HB.... It wouldn't take long.  The US crazies always deliver. 

A new thread is in order.  Terrorism? Racism? Woke activist? BLM?  Let's get a poll going.  But first we need all his social media information...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> See. I told HB.... It wouldn't take long.  The US crazies always deliver. 
> 
> A new thread is in order.  Terrorism? Racism? Woke activist? BLM?  Let's get a poll going.  But first we need all his social media information...


It doesn't matter what you are blathering on about.

The simple fact is this spotty no-mates teenager thought getting a gun and going and pretending to be hard would ingratiate him to his proud boy heroes.

Actually, it probably did.

----------


## Edmond

> The simple fact is this spotty no-mates teenager thought getting a gun and going and pretending to be hard would ingratiate him to his proud boy heroes.


Internet forums, the home of opinions being declared as facts.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Internet forums, the home of opinions being declared as facts.


So what is he eddie?

Some kind of Rambo-style superhero?

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## armstrong

First time I ever met my father in law he was cleaning his gun.  Haven't seen it in the 10years since  :smiley laughing:

----------


## Stumpy

> Any experience with a longbow?


.

Actually yes.  I took it up with my daughter when she was in school and joined an archery team.  Was quite fun and rather relaxing.  I was pretty descent at 50 yds. My crossbow is far more accurate but only to 40 but a lot more speed and the broadheads are very deadly. I used it for Turkey Hunting. 

I would say the best weapon I have owned is a LRSR 50 Cal.  My uncle and I went halfs on it 20 years ago.  The accuracy and muzzle velocity are simple amazing. You let out a breath and squeeze the trigger and by the time you have blinked you hit the target 600 yds away.

----------


## Stumpy

> Some kind of Rambo-style superhero?


He is just another guy that shot some people and got acquitted by a jury of his peers HB.  I do not understand why you struggle to understand this.  The media has this all whipped up in a frenzy which has got people all over spun up and it's all silly.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> He is just another guy that shot some people


It being America, you're right.

I suppose we should be grateful it wasn't another bunch of schoolkids.

----------


## Stumpy

> It being America, you're right.
> 
> I suppose we should be grateful it wasn't another bunch of schoolkids.


Let's be realistic HB.  The US has 330 million people from basically all over the globe.  We have people that love the country and others that hate everything it stands for.  Years back before Fagbook, Instashit, Twatter, Fox etc people had boundaries. Parents could parent.  Now with all that social media crap and parents handcuffed from basic discipline, the landscape has changed.  Social media and all these shit bag sensationalizing news stations only think of ratings versus responsible journalism. However those that are brought out into the light, love the attention so those watching all this want their 1 minute of fame.

----------


## nidhogg

^ Pretty sure that should be a million, not a billion.

----------


## Norton

> The US has 330 billion people


Might want to edit that but we know what ya mean.  :Wink:

----------


## Stumpy

Thanks for the correction. Typo duly noted and edited.  Carry on

----------


## koman

> Let's be realistic HB.  The US has 330 million people from basically all over the globe.  We have people that love the country and others that hate everything it stands for.  Years back before Fagbook, Instashit, Twatter, Fox etc people had boundaries. Parents could parent.  Now with all that social media crap and parents handcuffed from basic discipline, the landscape has changed.  Social media and all these shit bag sensationalizing news stations only think of ratings versus responsible journalism. However those that are brought out into the light, love the attention so those watching all this want their 1 minute of fame.


All very true....notwithstanding the billions vs millions thing ....

It seems that the whole political arena has been hijacked by extreme elements at both ends of the spectrum.   The news channels focus on the extremes.  They promote division, mistrust and hatred.   

The misinformation, 
outright lies,  defamation and race baiting I've seen during the Rittenhouse case has been truly disgraceful.  Even the POTUS weighed in with inappropriate commentary long before the facts were established.  

 Nothing will ever improve until public figures,  TV commentators and their invited "guests" are forced to behave responsibly and to be held accountable for their comments.

   Free speech is sacred in a democratic society but character assassination, libel and slander is not free speech.   Some many accusations  were made against Rittenhouse....so much distorted and misleading statements made....all of which turned out to be untrue.  No retractions, no apologies from any of the talking heads in the media.   Biden could set an example by offering an apology for the comments he made prematurely....but of course he won't.  He's a spinless career politician and the last thing they do is admit that they were wrong.

----------


## Norton

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see."

I would add read to Poe's words.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Let's be realistic HB.  The US has 330 million people from basically all over the globe.  We have people that love the country and others that hate everything it stands for.  Years back before Fagbook, Instashit, Twatter, Fox etc people had boundaries. Parents could parent.  Now with all that social media crap and parents handcuffed from basic discipline, the landscape has changed.  Social media and all these shit bag sensationalizing news stations only think of ratings versus responsible journalism. However those that are brought out into the light, love the attention so those watching all this want their 1 minute of fame.


Alternatively, you could say that electing a dim fucking populist enabled every gullible, gun-crazy, racist, redneck whacko, and the internet has allowed a variety of interested parties to feed their frenzy with a variety of "They're taking our jobs/Taking our guns/Trying to inject us with 5G chips" style nonsense.

Little kyle wannabes are the inevitable result.

Really it's a shame these people breed.

----------


## Bonecollector

I'll just leave this here but obviously we have to wait for the process of the investigation before we can make any judgement. 

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...widget%3DTweet

Who is Darrell Brooks? Wisconsin Christmas Day Parade Suspect is Rapper 'Mathboi Fly'?

----------


## helge

> I keep an axe under the seat of my car, what can I say, the viking blood still runs strong in me. Bows are however fine weapons and are definitely a great and challenging weapon to hunt with. Any experience with a longbow


Merde !

I only carry two fists and a big mouth  :Sad:

----------


## helge

> I have a few M18 Claymores strategically situated on my property.





> the element of surprise


Did I once offer you to help you out with some Single Malt inhaling ?

I'd better buy my own moonshine.

I get the impression, that a needy guy isn't allowed a discreet leak on your lawn


(no...no strip included)

----------


## Bonecollector

> Merde !
> 
> I only carry two fists and a big mouth


55555 has the big mouth given you lots of practice with those mitts?

----------


## helge

I have also got a very well timed and disarming smile  :Smile:

----------


## Bonecollector

> .
> 
> Actually yes.  I took it up with my daughter when she was in school and joined an archery team.  Was quite fun and rather relaxing.  I was pretty descent at 50 yds. My crossbow is far more accurate but only to 40 but a lot more speed and the broadheads are very deadly. I used it for Turkey Hunting. 
> 
> I would say the best weapon I have owned is a LRSR 50 Cal.  My uncle and I went halfs on it 20 years ago.  The accuracy and muzzle velocity are simple amazing. You let out a breath and squeeze the trigger and by the time you have blinked you hit the target 600 yds away.


50cal. 55555 headbuster, what was the rifle? 

Archery is definitely something I would like to get into.

----------


## Bonecollector

> I have also got a very well timed and disarming smile


Yup, I have a good wai for that, gotten a few of my stupid friends out of trouble.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Anyone surprised that the killer's first interview was Tucker?

Anyone?

----------


## Backspin

> Anyone surprised that the killer's first interview was Tucker?
> 
> Anyone?



Did you think it was going to be Don Lemon or something ?

----------


## panama hat

> Did you think it was going to be Don Lemon or something ?


So, you're not surprised . . . just say so as you're not good at discussions

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So, you're not surprised . . . just say so as you're not good at discussions


skidmark probably didn't know who Don Lemon was until he googled "how to respond to someone mocking rittenhouse and tucker carlson".

----------


## beachbound

> Anyone surprised that the killer's first interview was Tucker?
> 
> Anyone?


Cocksucker Carlson and his slimy crew were embedded with Rittenhouse and his defense team, since the beginning. Im sure the right wing nutters on the jury, were giddy about that. 


_Kyle Rittenhouses lead defense attorney, Mark Richards, says he did not approve of Tucker Carlsons Fox News film crew following them around to film footage for a documentary. Richards spoke shortly after Fox News announced a Tucker Carlson Originals documentary would air on Fox Nation in December that would include footage of Rittenhouses defense team during the trial. Carlson is set to air portions of an interview with Rittenhouse on Monday night. The full interview will be part of the documentary_

----------


## nidhogg

^as i understand it, Rittenhouse is still open to both civil and federal charges being bought.  Sure a lot of people gonna be listening vary closely to what he said, and the reason his lawyer was very not ok with it all.

----------


## Backspin

> Cocksucker Carlson and his slimy crew


You know Carlson worked for CNN and MSNBC in his career right ?

----------


## Backspin

Kyle Rittenhouse has a list a mile long, of defamation lawsuits he can bring. CNN and even president Biden are potential candidates. He has lawyers getting to it right now

Rittenhouse could have potential defamation case against Biden over white supremacist tweet | Daily Mail Online

----------


## beachbound

> You know Carlson worked for CNN and MSNBC in his career right ?


That makes him less of a scumbag?
That just proves he’s a con artist, willing to do, and say anything for ratings.
For fvcks sake, you’re one gullible tool.

----------


## panama hat

> You know Carlson worked for CNN and MSNBC in his career right ?


And he kept on sliding into the abyss that houses mental lightweights like you and chico. 

You're not seriously saying you believe the guy's credibility

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^as i understand it, Rittenhouse is still open to both civil and federal charges being bought.  Sure a lot of people gonna be listening vary closely to what he said, and the reason his lawyer was very not ok with it all.


Federal charges are a bit of a banana skin after he has been found not guilty at trial.

However, civil proceedings, where bent judges are less likely to throw out evidence or stop the lawyers calling the people he killed "victims", tend to be easier on the plaintiffs than criminal ones.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Well it seems it's becoming _en vogue_ to let off spotty little wankers for major crimes.




> A man who pleaded guilty to the rape and sexual assault of four teenage girls will avoid prison time after a New York state judge said time behind bars would be inappropriate.
> 
> Christopher Belter, now 20, entered a plea deal in 2019 in which he agreed to plead guilty to attempted first-degree sexual abuse, third-degree rape and two counts of second-degree sexual abuse, according to court documents.
> 
> The charges stem from four separate incidents in 2017 and 2018 in Lewiston, New York, the documents state. He and the victims were all under 18 at the time.
> 
> Belter was placed on interim probation for two years with limits on his internet use and access to pornography, the documents state.
> 
> But he violated the terms of his probation, according to court documents. Judge Matthew J. Murphy denied him Youthful Offender status and ruled he'd be sentenced as an adult, the documents state.
> ...


Congrats judge: His next rape is on you.

----------


## nidhogg

^  Rich kid.  A complete disgrace.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^  Rich kid.  A complete disgrace.


Rich WHITE kid.

----------


## nidhogg

^ Indeed.  Correction noted.

----------


## Bonecollector

^ ^^

You just embarrass yourselves by bringing race into it. Rich kids whatever colour will in general get away with more than poor kids of whatever colour. Do not be so f'ing ridiculous, it has nothing to do with colour in this instance.

Case in point I have two friends, both are from well connected black African families and both have gotten away with distributing drugs charges on numerous occasions. I have one white Welsh/ English friend from no great background and he did 5years for distributing cocaine. Just to further throw cum on your deranged theory, my well connected white friend did 1 year for football hooliganism. I forgot, I also have another friend who is black who stole a car, held someone hostage, aggravated assault and a few other things, this dude never went to jail cause of his dad's connections. 

I just can't tell you how much of a bullshit statement 'Rich WHITE kid.' is.

----------


## beachbound

^
So, because you know a couple of people whose experiences with the justice system are outside the norm, that automatically disproves the theory that there’s a disproportionate advantage for whites who commit crimes?
Talk about embarrassing yourself.


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## OhOh

> yle Rittenhouse has a list a mile long, of defamation lawsuits he can bring. CNN and even president Biden are potential candidates. He has lawyers getting to it right now


The boy has grown up, seen things he wasn't prepared for.

Excellent interview and well-prepared fact based replies. 

Yep, he has many he can sue for malicious damages, start with the unprotected twits, then the blatant lies by the media, lastly Biden. 

Although, he may have to wait 6 months until Biden resigns from his current job. 

The NaGastan citizens here on TD may know if and when a NaGastani leaders can be sued for malicious damages, prior to being POTUS.

----------


## beachbound

> he has many he can sue for malicious damages
> 
> 
> when a NaGastani leaders can be sued for malicious damages.


FFS, anyone can sue. Doesn’t mean you have a chance in hell of winning. Just ask the Cheeto in Chief.

----------


## Backspin

> FFS, anyone can sue. Doesn’t mean you have a chance in hell of winning. Just ask the Cheeto in Chief.


Nick Sandmann Wins Another Legal Victory Against Four Major Media Outlets | CBN News

CNN settles lawsuit with Nick Sandmann stemming from viral video controversy - CNN

The Washington Post settles lawsuit with Nick Sandmann after viral March for Life controversy - CNN

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^ ^^
> 
> You just embarrass yourselves by bringing race into it. Rich kids whatever colour will in general get away with more than poor kids of whatever colour. Do not be so f'ing ridiculous, it has nothing to do with colour in this instance.
> 
> Case in point I have two friends, both are from well connected black African families and both have gotten away with distributing drugs charges on numerous occasions. I have one white Welsh/ English friend from no great background and he did 5years for distributing cocaine. Just to further throw cum on your deranged theory, my well connected white friend did 1 year for football hooliganism. I forgot, I also have another friend who is black who stole a car, held someone hostage, aggravated assault and a few other things, this dude never went to jail cause of his dad's connections. 
> 
> I just can't tell you how much of a bullshit statement 'Rich WHITE kid.' is.


You just embarrass yourself by ignoring the plethora of evidence that:

African Americans are more likely to be killed by police than white folk in identical situations.
African Americans are more likely to be charged with a crime than white folk.
African Americans get longer sentences for the same crimes compared to white folk.

Etc. etc. etc.

If you think a white judge would have let a rich black kid walk, you're delusional.

Then again, you appear to be talking about England for some stupid fucking reason.

----------


## Edmond

> The boy has grown up, seen things he wasn't prepared for.
> 
> Excellent interview and well-prepared fact based replies.
> 
> Yep, he has many he can sue for malicious damages, start with the unprotected twits, then the blatant lies by the media, lastly Biden.


Yes, the lies, the trolling, of a brave young man that committed no crime was disgusting. Some even started attacking and spreading lies about his mother. And that was just on this thread!

Disgusting. 


It would be great to see his legal team go after the media and the president for the filth they spoke about him.

----------


## Bonecollector

> ^
> So, because you know a couple of people whose experiences with the justice system are outside the norm, that automatically disproves the theory that there’s a disproportionate advantage for whites who commit crimes?
> Talk about embarrassing yourself.


Go back and read what I said and what we are talking about. In short, I am stating that I believe no matter what your colour, if you are rich and connected, you will tend to get away with more.

----------


## Bonecollector

African Americans are more likely to be killed by police than white folk in identical situations.

Never even mentioned it. 

African Americans are more likely to be charged with a crime than white folk.

Not necessarily, it will depend on their background/ connections. OJ Simpson got away with blatantly killing two white people.


African Americans get longer sentences for the same crimes compared to white folk.

You are just going into a different category. We are talking about if rich white people and rich black people are treated differently in court. I am pretty sure they are not.

My last mate, I mean lets not call these guys mates, they used to be but for obvious reasons are not anymore, committed his crimes in a SOUTHERN STATE FFS

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Go back and read what I said and what we are talking about. In short, I am stating that I believe no matter what your colour, if you are rich and connected, you will tend to get away with more.


If you're a rich connected African American you probably would get away with more than a poor, unconnected African American.

Probably because you can afford better lawyers.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> African Americans are more likely to be killed by police than white folk in identical situations.
> 
> Never even mentioned it. 
> 
> African Americans are more likely to be charged with a crime than white folk.
> 
> Not necessarily, it will depend on their background/ connections. OJ Simpson got away with blatantly killing two white people.
> 
> 
> ...


It's hard to fathom how someone can be so dumb as to not be able to understand that everything I said relates to the US criminal justice system being skewed against African Americans.
As for OJ had one of the best criminal defences money could buy, and the prosecution made glaring errors.

It's called "an outlier".

And it's why I said "more likely" than "in every case".

FFS.

----------


## Bonecollector

> It's hard to fathom how someone can be so dumb as to not be able to understand that everything I said relates to the US criminal justice system being skewed against African Americans.
> As for OJ had one of the best criminal defences money could buy, and the prosecution made glaring errors.
> 
> It's called "an outlier".
> 
> And it's why I said "more likely" than "in every case".
> 
> FFS.


You obviously have multiple preconceptions constantly on your mind which often have no relation to what someone posts. You also seem to have a particularly foul mouth and abusive nature. Thus, this will be the last time we converse. Good luck in your life.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You obviously have multiple preconceptions constantly on your mind which often have no relation to what someone posts. You also seem to have a particularly foul mouth and abusive nature. Thus, this will be the last time we converse. Good luck in your life.



Yeah OK snowflake.

Till the next nick.

----------


## Backspin

> ^ ^^
> 
> You just embarrass yourselves by bringing race into it. Rich kids whatever colour will in general get away with more than poor kids of whatever colour. Do not be so f'ing ridiculous, it has nothing to do with colour in this instance.
> 
> Case in point I have two friends, both are from well connected black African families and both have gotten away with distributing drugs charges on numerous occasions. I have one white Welsh/ English friend from no great background and he did 5years for distributing cocaine. Just to further throw cum on your deranged theory, my well connected white friend did 1 year for football hooliganism. I forgot, I also have another friend who is black who stole a car, held someone hostage, aggravated assault and a few other things, this dude never went to jail cause of his dad's connections. 
> 
> I just can't tell you how much of a bullshit statement 'Rich WHITE kid.' is.


That's exactly right. What is more cringe than this bunch of self hating guilt tripping whingers in this thread, making everything about race.

----------


## Backspin

> If you're a rich connected African American you probably would get away with more than a poor, unconnected African American.
> 
> Probably because you can afford better lawyers.


Number of people shot to death by the police in the US from 2017 to 2020, by race 

(Source: Statista.com)

White: 457 (2017) | 399 (2018) | 370 (2019) | 172 (2020*)

Black: 223 (2017) | 209 (2018) | 235 (2019) | 88 (2020*)

----------


## panama hat

> I actually prayed over what is the appropriate sentence in this case because there was great pain.


Ah, that's the way to do it . . . 





> Number of people shot to death by the police in the US from 2017 to 2020, by race
> 
> (Source: Statista.com)
> 
> White: 457 (2017) | 399 (2018) | 370 (2019) | 172 (2020*)
> 
> Black: 223 (2017) | 209 (2018) | 235 (2019) | 88 (2020*)


You forgot one amazing statistic, Backspit:
White population: 236 million
Black population: 37 million

Do you really need me to point out your flawed 'trying-by-all-means-to-justify-black-deaths-by-police-as-being-fair' Schtick?

Ok, why don't I just say that all things being equal according to you it should be:

2017
White: x 5 of  
Black: 223

2018
White: x 5 of
Black: 209

2019
White: x 5 of
Black: 235


Just for fun I won't explain any further

----------


## Edmond

> What is more cringe than this bunch of self hating guilt tripping whingers in this thread, making everything about race.


It's a beta thing they do.


Race!!

His mother!!

It was windy!!


Kinda beta-cute of them, really.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> \
> Do you really need me to point out your flawed 'trying-by-all-means-to-justify-black-deaths-by-police-as-being-fair' Schtick?


Probably yes, because he is after all as thick as shit.

----------


## Cujo

Jesus christ Trump hosted him at mar a lago.
The repubtards are turning him into a conservative poster boy.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Jesus christ Trump hosted him at mar a lago.
> The repubtards are turning him into a conservative poster boy.


He had a gun.

And he got away with shooting someone.

That is every witless gun-toting redneck's dream.

And of course those witless gun-toting rednecks are baldy orange cunto's base.

----------


## Bonecollector

> Ah, that's the way to do it . . . 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot one amazing statistic, Backspit:
> White population: 236 million
> Black population: 37 million
> 
> ...


You can't use the general population as yard stick, it is a common misconception amongst armchair analysts. You need to use the crime figures.

For 2017, the crime figures were as such.

Whites - 5.6million total arrests 
Blacks - 2.3million total arrests  

So as you can see, criminals get shot at the same rate regardless of their race.

I know i know, you are just going to say, 'yeah but yeah but yeah but you see how many black arrests there are, that's a clear sign of racism maaaaaaaan.' Well you could be right but you could be wrong, that is a whole other argument which I really do not have the will to get into because there are so many variables that it is, and has been, considered an impossible conclusion to make. 

Are there racists? yes, but to what extent that affects black, predominately males, to commit crime, you can never get a conclusive answer.

Sorry had to dash out but I've done the 'math' as they say. Hope I am correct 55555 not the best at maths. 

In 2017 0.008160% of white (criminals) were shot and killed by police

In 2017 0.009695% of black (criminals) were shot and killed by police 

I will try and find the extract from a thesis I read on why you must compare kills by police to criminals and not the general population. It was to do with the fact that 95% of those kills were on criminals in the act of committing a crime or evading arrest for a previously committed crime.

----------


## beachbound

> You can't use the general population as yard stick, it is a common misconception amongst armchair analysts. 
> 
> So as you can see, criminals get shot at the same rate regardless of their race.
> I know i know, you are just going to say, 'yeah but yeah but yeah but you see how many black arrests there are, that's a clear sign of racism maaaaaaaan.' Well you could be right but you could be wrong, that is a whole other argument which I really do not have the will to get into because there are so many variables that it is, and has been, considered an impossible conclusion to make. 
> 
> Are there racists? yes, but to what extent that affects black, predominately males, to commit crime, you can never get a conclusive answer.


can’t argue with that. 


First, you’d have to understand that big steaming pile of gibberish.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You can't use the general population as yard stick


You absolutely can, unless you're trying some useless fucking bullshit you saw on Fox News.

Many of the African Americans killed by the police are not "criminals" unless you count "driving with a broken taillight", "selling individual cigarettes" or "being anywhere near an armed white racist cop" as a crime.

----------


## Bonecollector

> can’t argue with that. 
> 
> 
> First, you’d have to understand that big steaming pile of gibberish.


Exactly the kind of retort I would expect. Good luck to you.

----------


## beachbound

> Exactly the kind of retort I would expect. Good luck to you.


Klondyke would be proud of your writing, and debate skills.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Klondyke would be proud of your writing, and debate skills.


Actually even he could safely mock them.

----------


## Backspin

> can’t argue with that. 
> 
> 
> First, you’d have to understand that big steaming pile of gibberish.


While more white people are shot, that may simply be because there are more white Americans.

And while a disproportionate number of black people are shot, that may be because they encounter police more often.

And we do not know whether that is because black people commit more crimes, or because of racial bias by police.

We simply do not know enough.

What we do know is that the *number of unarmed black Americans shot by police is very small, falling to single digits last year

*

----------


## panama hat

> You can't use the general population as yard stick, it is a common misconception amongst armchair analysts.


Actually, yes you can.  As far as armchair analysts . . . my Uni degree is in economics of which a large part was stats, so I'm quite capable of seeing an issue through statistical data.

 . . . and . . .






> Many of the African Americans killed by the police are not "criminals" unless you count "driving with a broken taillight", "selling individual cigarettes" or "being anywhere near an armed white racist cop" as a crime.

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## Bonecollector

> Actually, yes you can.  As far as armchair analysts . . . my Uni degree is in economics of which a large part was stats, so I'm quite capable of seeing an issue through statistical data.
> 
>  . . . and . . .


Well that is your opinion and I will of course respect that and your previously required knowledge. I am just stating what I read in a thesis; to me, it makes sense. 

In my view, you cannot include babies and grandmothers in statistical analysis when the subject is mostly centred on males of a criminal background. You cannot deny that when the statistical analysis is calculated with the parameters I used, it clearly shows that overall, colour plays an insignificant role with regards to whether a criminal is killed by the police. Of course that is not to say it doesn't happen sometimes. For me, this is just further proof that this is all totally overblown by whoever to create whatever it is they are wanting to create; but that is another rabbit hole!

Quote from the abusive one: totally subjective and most definitely statistically non-significant.

I think I will leave it, and this thread, at that.

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## Backspin

> Actually, yes you can.  As far as armchair analysts . . . my Uni degree is in economics of which a large part was stats, so I'm quite capable of seeing an issue through statistical data.
> 
>  . . . and . . .


 ::smilebla::  ::smilebla:: 

the number of unarmed black Americans shot by police is very small, falling to single digits last year.

And this doesn't even exclude the black ppl who were shot by policman of color.

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## panama hat

> blah blah blah racist apologist blah blah blah racist apologist blah blah blah racist apologist blah blah blah racist apologist blah blah blah racist apologist blah blah blah racist apologist blah blah blah racist apologist blah blah blah racist apologist blah blah blah racist apologist blah blah blah racist apologist


You're doing well, backspit

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## Saint Willy

> considered an impossible conclusion to make.


 :Bsflag:

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## harrybarracuda

So poor little Kyle no claims he was manipulated.

But on the down side, Ms. Jewish Space Lasers is supporting him.




> Rittenhouse said in an interview on the cable channel NewsNation on Tuesday that he and his mother fired Wood last December because “he was going on with all this QAnon and election fraud stuff, and just stuff we don’t agree with.”
> 
> He added: “He’s insane. ... He thinks he’s God and he just says all these weird things.”
> 
> Rittenhouse has also accused Wood of mishandling money the attorney raised to bail him out.
> 
> 
> Rittenhouse told Tucker Carlson on Fox News that Wood raised $2 million for bail, but then advised the teen to stay in jail where he would be “safer” for a total of 87 days. Wood also “put me on media interviews, which I should never have done,” Rittenhouse complained to Carlson.
> 
> ...


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lin-w...b0ae9a42ae7e32

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## panama hat

It's pleasant to see the animals rip into each other

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## Saint Willy

> It's pleasant to see the animals rip into each other



Was just thinking much the same. They deserve each other.

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## Backspin

> It's pleasant to see the animals rip into each other


Just some minor bickering. 

Morons

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## harrybarracuda

I'm convinced more every day that the doctors did not notice the umbilical cord around skidmark's neck until significant damage had been done.

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## pickel

He does it without even a whiff of embarrassment too. Dunning Kruger.

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