#  >  > Non Asia Travel Forums >  >  > Australia & New Zealand Travel Forum >  >  Robertson's on Tour: New Zealand '08 - '09

## AntRobertson

Righto this thread's been a long time coming and, frankly, was a complete cock-up before it even began. First off, lacking the skill, equipment or inclination of guys like Bobcock and Co., we managed to have our camera on the wrong setting so over half the pics came out a blurry mess that I had to subsequently delete (which was after buying a new USB cable to replace the one we left in NZ). Secondly, owing to the nature of the trip (Xmas, visiting relations and friends etc) most the pics are of people rather than places and, for obvious reasons, I'm a bit reluctant to post those. So anyways what follows is a random collection of mediocre pics from what was actually a really, really good trip...

So we set off:



This was on the Silk Air, CM to Singapore, leg of the trip. All my pre-trip apprehensions came to nothing as the boys were coo'ed over by sexy air hostesses and then nodded off straight to sleep for the entire trip. Unfortunately this gave us a false sense of security and when Singapore Air managed to totally and utterly cock-up the next leg of the trip (Singapore - Auckland) I had the most miserable and difficult flight of my life. Anyways, a story for another thread/time...

After arriving in NZ and a few days with my sister and her family it was straight to the beach to met some friends. This is where we stayed:



And this is a gratuitous nudity shot of my wee chaps and my mates boy having a bath  :Smile: :



Then it was the whole big family Xmas thing with aunts, uncles and cousins galore coming out of the woodwork and convening for a lovely lake side BBQ/Xmas lunch. This is the only pic of ours that survives from that day  :Sad: :



One of my boys chasing ducks. Err, chasing Xmas ducks!

After that it was off to meet some more friends at another beach to go camping. A decision which, with the benefit of hindsight, was really, really dumb. Two increasingly mobile boys and wide open spaces for them to disappear into meant we had to watch them constantly. This pic sums up the exhaustion everyone ended up feeling:



My boy asleep in a suitcase.  :Smile: 

I did however catch this absolutle monster of a kingfish. Had I caught it the following day I would've won the fishing competition that they held (which only started then). But I didn't. Still happy with it though, as you can see clearly from my expression:



And another gratuitous bath-time pic, camping style:

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## Wayne Kerr

Bloody nice fish mate  :Smile:

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## AntRobertson

This, incidentally, is the car we hired for the whole trip. A 2008 XR6 Falcon, brilliant car and only around B30,000 for the entire 3 weeks. That's cheaper than most rentals here and for a full-size 'executive' saloon too!:



My boys were clearly stoked with it as much as I was  :Smile: :



Here's the whole family with grandma... Well one of the grandma's at least... You can see the strong family resemblance in this pic:



And one of my boys with his great-grandma, pretty much the single most important reason for the entire trip:

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## AntRobertson

> Bloody nice fish mate


Cheers Wayne.  I may be, ahem, slightly exaggerating the size as time goes by, it was actually only 10kg, but it's my first ever kingy so I was pretty stoked with it.

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## peterpan

Jezzus Ant, slim pickins.  I'm an old cvnt but can still work a camera.

 Is that all you could manage after 3 weeks holiday? I got some great photo's of my last trip. Bay of Islands, Rotorua thermals, Christchurch gardens etc.
Do you want to borrow them and pretend they are yours?

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## AntRobertson

And, finally, me wee chap wearing part of his sun-protection kit:



The weather in NZ was superb, very simialr to a winter in Chiang Mai actually, but that sun is a killer!  Literally and figuratively.  I'm relatively fair-skinned but here in Thailand even I can get away with an hour or so in the sun without getting burnt.  In NZ that's more like 10min or so, no exaggeration!  It's that fierce!

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## Red dragon

Nice pics mate, 

seeing the boy playing in the grass makes me wanna take my boy home to see the family, playing football in the Garden and BBQ's are a few things I miss about back home.
Also the bath, I have a similar style in my home, bloody hell I miss having a relaxing bath everynight.

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## AntRobertson

> Jezzus Ant, slim pickins. I'm an old cvnt but can still work a camera.
> 
> Is that all you could manage after 3 weeks holiday? I got some great photo's of my last trip. Bay of Islands, Rotorua thermals, Christchurch gardens etc.
> Do you want to borrow them and pretend they are yours?


I know mate, I'm really quite gutted about it.  :Sad: 

Thankfully as we spent all the time with friends/family they also have plenty of shots so it's just a matter of collecting those together.  We were in RotoVegas too by the way, wanted to get to the Bay of Islands but didn't manage to get past the Whangaporoa penninisula.  Next trip.

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## peterpan

We only used to use these small ones as bait when I was a lad.  :Smile:

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## reinvented

nice pics ant
must get round to a photy thread meself

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## Gabriel

Thank you for the pictures Ant. Seemed like you all enjoyed yourselves.

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## MeMock

What happened with Singapore airlines?

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## AntRobertson

> We only used to use these small ones as bait when I was a lad.


Let me guess... You used to fish bare-foot in the snow and were so poor that you fashioned fishing poles from cigarette butts that you found?  :Razz:

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## Travelmate

excellent pics, the boys seem to have enjoyed themselves.

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## Ghandi

Nice post , always a handful traveling with kids in tow.

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## AntRobertson

> What happened with Singapore airlines?


It was a balls-up of epic proportions!

We had called them to confirm both the booking and the seats (as you know the bassinets can only go on the bulkheads) several days prior. When we went to the gate at Changi airport I knew from one look something was up as it was packed. 

My suspicions were correct, turns out they'd over-booked the flight, and when I enquired they said there were no bassinet seats left. Obviously I wasn't too happy but they said that we'd have spare seats for the boys so I thought that was better than nothing. It wasn't.

We boarded the plane and it was one of those ones configured with the 3-seats in the middle (don't know what type, I never pay attention to this stuff). The wife and I had a seat each and there was the spare one in the middle. I was pissed off but figured we'd manage... Until some lady came along and asked for her seat. That's when I had a slight bout of air rage (although we were still on the ground).

Now remembering that we'd paid 1/2 fares for the boys, effectively 3 full fares, I thought the least we were entitled to was 3 seats. No way was I going to spend the entire trip sandwiched in a seat with a 12kg infant on my lap for 12hrs. And what really pissed me off was it became apparent _after_ I'd blown my top and called attention to the situation that they'd boarded the flight without considering individual needs. There were single people sitting in the bulkhead seats where the bassinets go.

Long story short, but some helpful passengers gave up their seats and we ended up with one bassinet seat and the one directly behind it. I basically spent the entire trip switching one boy from my lap into the bassinet and, literally, didn't get a minutes sleep (we'd left at 1am Thai time). Arrived in NZ and I was completely zonked; felt like I was drunk.

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## MeMock

That is poor service for sure.

Been there done that with a 12 month old. Problem was I then had a 9 hour car drive as soon as I arrived at Darwin airport.

Anyway, I am interested in you saying you paid half fares for an infant. It should only be the tax, 10 or 20 % of adult fare - whats the go there?

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## astasinim

Good stuff. Shame the rest of your pictures didnt turn out right. Looks like the little fellas had a great time. I was wondering about the air fare price too. We paid £60 Man - Bkk. Sorry to hear about the bad service you received. Ive always found Singapore Air to be spot on.

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## Ghandi

Surprisingly bad service from Singapore Airlines , would expect that from Thai Airlines and the bassinet seats should always be designated for infants

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## AntRobertson

> Anyway, I am interested in you saying you paid half fares for an infant. It should only be the tax, 10 or 20 % of adult fare - whats the go there?


I think 12mths is the 'cut-off' mate, anything over that's 1/2 price up until a certain age (not sure what). Our boys being born in November turned 1yr old a couple of weeks before we flew out!  :Smile:

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## AntRobertson

> Surprisingly bad service from Singapore Airlines , would expect that from Thai Airlines and the bassinet seats should always be designated for infants


Yeah, thing is they came pretty highly recommended too.  All my friends with kids said they're the best to travel with.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, we might've just hit the one bad flight/been unlucky but I was pretty pissed off at the time.

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## MeMock

This is a quote I just got a few hours ago.

1. Thai Airways  Economy Class Price include taxes 
 1. TG  989  23FEB  BKKAKL  1950  #1320          
 2. TG  990  24MAR  AKLBKK  1530   2130         
Adult           39,300 Baht
Child      31,575 Baht
Infant              6,805 Baht

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## AntRobertson

^Any mention of ages?  I'm pretty sure the wife said SG was cheaper (for kids/infants) as well?

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## astasinim

I thought infants were classed as such until they are 2 years old? I guess some airlines have different policies.

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## AntRobertson

> I thought infants were classed as such until they are 2 years old? I guess some airlines have different policies.


I think you're right on both counts.

I'll ask the wife again tonight as she booked all this stuff.

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## kingwilly

> Anyway, I am interested in you saying you paid half fares for an infant. It should only be the tax, 10 or 20 % of adult fare - whats the go there?


10% of scheduled fare. the fares you normally pay are 'discounted'

Ant, I found it was usually easier and cheaper in the long run to pay for the child seats, only a little extra, but you get 20kg of luggage not the 10kg and guarantee a seat and food.

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## reinvented

depends on airline
we use etihad to uk and its 20%
ive a 15 month old and they invariably fuck up 1 out of 4 legs with the bassinet
i think its down to non linked booking and the left hand not knowing what the right is doing

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## MeMock

I must admit Ant, I just told my agent 1 child and 1 infant but my infant has flown many times and I have never been charged more then 10 - 20% of the fare.

I checked singapore airlines for this trip we need to make next month and the price was outrageous. 70,000 baht per adult.

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## AntRobertson

> I must admit Ant, I just told my agent 1 child and 1 infant but my infant has flown many times and I have never been charged more then 10 - 20% of the fare.
> 
> I checked singapore airlines for this trip we need to make next month and the price was outrageous. 70,000 baht per adult.


That's odd, because the one thing i do remember my wife saying when we were looking at flights was that SG were cheaper than TG... mind you, didn't TG just cut fares recently?

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## MeMock

My last flight was myself with my then 16 month old. She didn;'t fit in the bassinet but slept soundly for 8 hours on the floor  :Smile: 

Here is a recent quote from Royal Brunei (they knew my childs age)

Per Adult: $1360 x 2 = $ 2774.40 $ 2,720.00
Per Child: $1085 $ 1106.70 $ 1,085.00
Per Infant: $210 $ 214.20 $ 210.00

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## kingwilly

> but slept soundly for 8 hours on the floor


apparently not allowed.

those prices look alright.

i guess the rule is to shop around then.

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## AntRobertson

Another thing that made it difficult, and not sure if this is 'new' or not, but every time there was turbulence and the seat belt sign came on they came along and made me take whichever of the boys it was in the bassinet out.

Of course this invariably woke them up.  :Sad:

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## kingwilly

> Another thing that made it difficult, and not sure if this is 'new' or not, but every time there was turbulence and the seat belt sign came on they came along and made me take whichever of the boys it was in the bassinet out.  Of course this invariably woke them up.


normal.

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## MeMock

Yeah, normal unfortunately, but understandable as well.

Amazing how different airlines vary. Kununurra to Darwin, child infant must be attached and dont even think about taking it of at all.
Darwin to Sing with tiger, infant must wear it whenever the adults are meant to.
Sing to Bang with Air Asia, Child restraint? "Mai mee"

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## Bobcock

my wife flew from London to Bangkok on BA.

The children's seat was agreed before and my cousin who was a BA captain at the time had supposedly put in a good word.

She boarded and found she was there with an infact right at the back.

The people in the seats where cots were available were childless.

My wife pointed this out and basically got the attitude that she could go get stuffed.

She then pointed out the the trolley dolly that my cousin was a BA captain and (half true at the time) I worked for BA in a consulting capacity. She also pointed out that she would ensure the child wouldn't get fed at the right time which might upset other padssengers.

She was moved.

Funnily enough on the way back when I was with her they couldn't do enough to help.

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## AntRobertson

> Funnily enough on the way back when I was with her they couldn't do enough to help.


To be fair the same was true with SG; I'd kicked up a big enough stink that they were very, very helpful on the return flight.  Didn't help much though as the boys were restless during that whole trip.

Oh, and on the Sing - BKK connection Silk Air lost the front awning bit off of our stroller.

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## MeMock

I am just looking at Brunei air, 77,000 baht return for all of us is pretty good but there is no option on the main search page that you have an infant. Can only chose between an adult and a child aged 2-11 plus the child is half price of the adult fare which is quite amazing.

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## MeMock

Sorry Ant, I have just realised how much I have just hijacked your travel thread. I will shut up now.

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## AntRobertson

No problem, owing to my utter ineptitude with a camera it was a pretty crap thread anyways.  :Wink:

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## AntRobertson

Actually, if/when I get some decent pics back I'll re-do the thread.  The ones I have really don't do the trip/country justice.

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## Johnny Longprong

Bloody nice pics of the kiddies having fun AR. How nice is that NZ eh Bro?

Sorry, but the Kingfish is quite pissweak. We use those fellas for bait here.

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## AntRobertson

> Bloody nice pics of the kiddies having fun AR. How nice is that NZ eh Bro?


Cheers.  Yeah the boys had a blast, meeting and playing with all their cousins and the like.


> Sorry, but the Kingfish is quite pissweak. We use those fellas for bait here.


Well I'm quite proud of it!  :Smile:   Truth is I'm no fisherman at all, can't stand the fecking things actually.  You can tell by the way I'm holding the smelly wee beastie in the pic; with a cloth and as far away from me as possible.  :Wink:

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## Marmite the Dog

I think kids under 10 should be banned from flying. It's not always the kids fault that they're little shits; the parents seem to forget that they have a responsibility for them.

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## AntRobertson

> I think kids under 10 should be banned from flying


That's not very practical is it.

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## kingwilly

> Quote: Sorry, but the Kingfish is quite pissweak. We use those fellas for bait here. Well I'm quite proud of it! Truth is I'm no fisherman at all, can't stand the fecking things actually. You can tell by the way I'm holding the smelly wee beastie in the pic; with a cloth and as far away from me as possible.


well, i was impressed with it.

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## klongmaster

> This is a quote I just got a few hours ago.
> 
> 1. Thai Airways  Economy Class Price include taxes 
>  1. TG  989  23FEB  BKKAKL  1950  #1320          
>  2. TG  990  24MAR  AKLBKK  1530   2130         
> Adult           39,300 Baht
> Child      31,575 Baht
> Infant              6,805 Baht


Malaysia Airlines are quoting 24165 for adults...

have a look here...

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## EmperorTud

> I think kids under 10 should be banned from flying. It's not always the kids fault that they're little shits; the parents seem to forget that they have a responsibility for them.


I agree. They should give them drugs to sleep for the duration of the flight and put them in a separate compartment, or the hold, as they do with pets.

When you travel in business you don't have to put up with them fortunately, a lot of  airlines don't allow them anywhere else except economy.

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## Texpat

Nice thread. Wholesome, family fun, painful for some, to be sure.
Thanks for sharing.

What part of Australia is New Zealand in?  :Smile:

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## Propagator

Somewhere near the bottom aint it   :Smile:

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## Loy Toy

> What part of Australia is New Zealand in?


Just south of Sydney harbour and its called Bondi Junction!  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Loombucket

Never mind Ant, the pictures that you managed were good ones. Nice to see the Great Grandma with a kiddie on her lap, she looks well chuffed. Shame your flight arrangements were half screwed up, just what you don't need on a long haul. Thanks for sharing.

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## jizzybloke

Nice pictures Ant, good to hear it all turned out right in the end!

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## MeMock

> I think kids under 10 should be banned from flying. It's not always the kids fault that they're little shits; the parents seem to forget that they have a responsibility for them.


Yep and while we are at it please ban anyone who is more then 3% overweight, anyone who smells offensive, anyone who has been drinking and anyone who has had a cigarette in the previous 24 hours.

Just remember it is my infant who is subsidising your ticket price.

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## MeMock

> Originally Posted by MeMock
> 
> 
> This is a quote I just got a few hours ago.
> 
> 1. Thai Airways  Economy Class Price include taxes 
>  1. TG  989  23FEB  BKKAKL  1950  #1320          
>  2. TG  990  24MAR  AKLBKK  1530   2130         
> Adult           39,300 Baht
> ...


I was just about to book with Royal Brunei but will check that out firs, cheers.

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## MeMock

That price didn't include the 15,000 baht in taxes, so for my family it was 150,000 baht compared to Royal Bruneis 79,000 baht.

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## panama hat

Nice, nice, nice . . . .

(Oops, time for my Sydney pictorial)

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## AntRobertson

> Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
> 
> 
> I think kids under 10 should be banned from flying. It's not always the kids fault that they're little shits; the parents seem to forget that they have a responsibility for them.
> 
> 
> I agree. They should give them drugs to sleep for the duration of the flight and put them in a separate compartment, or the hold, as they do with pets.
> 
> When you travel in business you don't have to put up with them fortunately, a lot of airlines don't allow them anywhere else except economy.


 :Trolling: 



> What part of Australia is New Zealand in?


The capital!  :Razz:

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## Marmite the Dog

> Just remember it is my infant who is subsidising your ticket price.


How so?

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## AntRobertson

Because they're are charged fare without actually taking up a seat.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Because they're are charged fare without actually taking up a seat.


Another good reason to keep them at home.  :Smile:

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## AntRobertson

It's a lot more difficult to find someone to come around on a regular basis while you're on holiday and feed your children than it is pets for some reason.

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## Loy Toy

^ Especially twins mate.

Nice thread mate and it looks like you have a very happy family (live in and extended) which in today's day and age is a gift..............thanks for sharing!  :Smile:

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## AntRobertson

Cheers LT!  Bit disappointed with the whole pics scenario though, but have just this morning emailed everyone asking for replacements so should be good.

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## terry57

> I think kids under 10 should be banned from flying. It's not always the kids fault that they're little shits; the parents seem to forget that they have a responsibility for them.




I think the only fair thing for all concerned is to place the families together at the rear of the plane.

I realize that the kiddies cant help it when there throwing a spack and screaming there boxes off but why should childless people have to put up with this when we all pay the same fair ?

Foking bolliks I say and sitting near a family when there kids are playing up is a foking nightmare.

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## Loy Toy

Anyone who has had kids and flown with them knows the pain and suffering that goes with it.

The only problem I have had with my kids when flying is take off and landing and due to atmospheric changes which causes ear canal irritation.

Parents that take their kids on a plane and don't carry with them things to keep them amused should be banned for life. A few books and scribble kits usually ensures everyone's trip is bearable.

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## MeMock

I agree LT.

I disagree with Terry saying "I realize that the kiddies cant help it when there throwing a spack and screaming there boxes off"

Okay, you can expect some discomfort and perhaps a few tears, but hissy fits reflect bad parenting.

The last 12 hour flight I did my little one did cry for about 3 or 4 minutes after hitting some very bad turbulence (small commuter flight) everyone was very understand and sympathetic (scared the crap out of them as well) Screaming for the sake of screaming is a completely different story.

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## peterpan

> I realize that the kiddies cant help it when there throwing a spack and screaming there boxes off but why should childless people have to put up with this when we all pay the same fair ?
> 
> Foking bolliks I say and sitting near a family when there kids are playing up is a foking nightmare.


 It just ain't fare is it Terry?  :Smile: 
I don't see why parents can't control their brats in flight, never had a problem, things to keep them amused, a belt around the ear if they get restless and a slug of Cointreau if that doesn't work, then its good night nurse for the ankle biters.

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## Bobcock

I love seeing people like Terry on flights, they hate you as soon as you are near them, doesn't matter if the kids are perfect on the flight, they sit and stew in their own juices waiting for a reason to be annoyed.

Fuck 'em I say.

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## Marmite the Dog

Exactly - I don't necessarily have a problem with the kids. It's usually their 'parents' who need a good slap.

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## EmperorTud

Don't sit near the bulkheads if possible as that's where they put the kids in economy.

It's usually infants and some toddlers that scream their heads off throughout a flight. When they get a little older they mellow out a bit and are more excited than anything else.

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## English Noodles

Taking very small children on crowded flights to see Grandma & Grandpa is an exercise in utter nonsense that displays an egotistical disergard for all and sundry, children included.

How can parents claim they’re enabling their children to bond with elderly relatives? These kids are too young to even remember the relatives! The only memories such self-absorbed parents forge are those of a ruined flight for all the other passengers and sheet misery for the crew.

Think about someone other than yourselves - buy tickets for the grandparents and treat them to a visit to you! :Smile:

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## AntRobertson

Me grandma's to old to travel.  :Sad:

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## MeMock

My grandma's dead.

Died in a plane crash en route to visit us.  :Sad:

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## kingwilly

> I love seeing people like Terry on flights, they hate you as soon as you are near them, doesn't matter if the kids are perfect on the flight, they sit and stew in their own juices waiting for a reason to be annoyed.  Fuck 'em I say.


yup..

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## English Noodles

> Died in a plane crash en route to visit us.


You serious?

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## MeMock

No thank goodness. I just wanted to stir you up for your stupid post that you made.

Well I have just finished making my bookings. 5 hours it took me  :Sad: 

A couple of questions though, why do some airlines allow you to book infants online and some do not?

Why do some airlines insist the owner of the CC you booked with must travel? 

Why is Thai airways constantly the worse airline to book with either online or via the phone?

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## English Noodles

Accept it. You have kids, you can’t do certain things until they grow older. Deal, and you won’t have to worry about some frazzled business traveler beating the teeth out of your face for having so little consideration for everyone else on the plane. :Smile:

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## terry57

> I love seeing people like Terry on flights, they hate you as soon as you are near them, doesn't matter if the kids are perfect on the flight, they sit and stew in their own juices waiting for a reason to be annoyed.
> 
> Fuck 'em I say.




Well Bobby, I think you are drawing a long bow coming to that conclusion as its absolute bullshit and reaks of a Jackman attitude.

People traveling without kids are the vast majority of paying passengers and you are the minority, we don't want to have to listen to your screaming fuking kids nor should we have to.   

I have absolutely no problem with kiddies traveling when they are behaving themselves and not screaming or running up and down the corridor.

Some parents are absolute arseholes, they feel that its OK to let there kids run amok disturbing the hosties and other passengers pissing off the punters.

You think its fair crack , its not, its fucking bullshit, we don't pay good money to listen to your kids twisting off. 

As I said before its not the kiddies fault when they are screaming, some parents are able to quieten them others just let them bollik on as they seem to not know what to do.  

There are many more passengers traveling with out kids than with them so we should not have listen to that bolliks ?   

I am serious when I say that the plane should be separated with family's up the back, let them suffer together and leave the vast majority of passengers to enjoy there flight.

You say : " fuk all the passengers traveling without children "

I say fuk you with your attitude to the majority of passengers and you can bash your screaming kids up your bottom.

Buy a ticket in Business Class and go bother those bastards.

Thank you very much, have a nice flight.

PS. Next time you fly buy a ticket up the back for fuck sakes.      PLEEEAAAZZZZZZ

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## EmperorTud

> I am serious when I say that the plane should be separated with family's up the back, let them suffer together and leave the vast majority of passengers to enjoy there flight.


That is what I suggested earlier. They should only fly on certain flights and be grouped together in certain areas perhaps separated from other passengers.




> Buy a fucking ticket in Business Class and go bother those bastards.


Fortunately a lot of airlines insist kids travel in economy.

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## English Noodles

> Fortunately a lot of airlines insist kids travel in economy.


Fortunately for who?

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## EmperorTud

> Originally Posted by EmperorTud
> 
> Fortunately a lot of airlines insist kids travel in economy.
> 
> 
> Fortunately for who?


Fortunate for business travellers.  :Smile:

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## English Noodles

I usualy try to get free flights by hiding in the toilet when the ticket inspector comes around.

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## AntRobertson

Pretty clear from some of the comments in this thread that some people aren't suited to having children.

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## Boon Mee

> Me grandma's to old to travel.


Great thread Tony but I gotta ask you for the umteeth time how you can spell 'too' wrong _all_ the time?

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## terry57

^^

Well AUNTY,   Try this out,

Lets say you are a traveler without children and your flying long haul from England to Australia . 

Next thing you know you are sitting next to Bobby and his kids. The kids are having a bad flight and scream there boxes of for hours 1 meter away from you.  :Sad: 

Tell me that your going to be thinking : 

" Owe thats OK its only a 15 hour flight I really don't mind listening to Bobby's kids twisting off, its all good. "   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Of course you are going to say this as you got 2 bloody babies.

Get a grip matey.

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## AntRobertson

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> 
> Me grandma's to old to travel. 
> 
> 
> Great thread Tony but I gotta ask you for the umteeth time how you can spell 'too' wrong _all_ the time?


To, too... Meh.

Oh, and it's "_umpteenth_" by the way.

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## Boon Mee

^^
I'd be hitting the drinks cart...heavy! :Confused:

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## Nawty

They should have 'family' flights once a day or couple times a week etc. They could fill it with kids and families, then they could have clowns on board, double as air marshall. Hostesses can wear whatever they want, Captains can dress in flowery shirts, kids movies galore, face painting, lotsa red cordial and sick bags. Even the likes of the Muppets or the Wiggles could make guest appearances.

That would get all the kids off of the whiners flights.

Then we could all get together and bribe the Airline to not tell Terry which flight is which and get him booked on one.

If the whiners could afford it, they could travel business class....but alas they cannot. My son flew business class at 6 and 9 months old....there were some worried looks onboard.

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## EmperorTud

The reason I am getting so excited about this is that the situation seems to be getting worse. As travellers accumulate more air miles from thousands of non-flying sources – car rentals, hotels, the weekly grocery shop, even by putting school fees on credit cards – more parents can say: "We'll upgrade the kids, too." And the rest of us get lumbered.
The standard answer given by the airlines and parents is that if the family pay for the seat, or redeem the miles, then that is that. Rubbish and rot. Many venues, such as top restaurants and bars, do not admit children after a certain hour. I do not see why there should be any difference in the air.


Why business class is for adults - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent

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## AntRobertson

> Many venues, such as top restaurants and bars, do not admit children after a certain hour. I do not see why there should be any difference in the air.


Pretty fatuous analogy, the difference is that people don't need to go to a restaurant or bar - particularly with children - and often air travel is the only realistic choice.

If those people want to travel business class then that's entirely their perogative; why should they be limited in choice because others don't like it.  It's discrimination.

----------


## EmperorTud

> the difference is that people don't need to go to a restaurant or bar - particularly with children - and often air travel is the only realistic choice.


Children and their parents don't need to travel in business class though.




> why should they be limited in choice because others don't like it.


Simply because the premium cabins are often used by people who have specifically paid more to have a more relaxing and comfortable experience on that flight.

----------


## Bobcock

Even funnier watching them stew in their own juices.

My kids have flown countless times, never has one of them even cried on a plane.

I would have sympathy for people if they played up and would do anything I can to sort that, but it's the tossers who hate you from the minute you get on that I love. The sort that wanna lean over and pinch the kid so he cries and then they can get outraged. They are just wonderful people.

In all my flights I can never once remember a child playing up ever. It's obviously not that common an occurance. More one imagined by the 'curtain twitcher' types I think.

----------


## Nawty

^ bullshit....I have read reports about flights being turned around and even some while still on the tarmac...thats quick....I bet your kids were on most of them.

----------


## Bobcock

I know my boys are a bit loud when at home, but fair play on an airplane they are a pleasure. Thank God for PSP's.

Certainly a lot less trouble than your average British lout who wants to get pissed, or the Fuglies Footie team on their weekend trip to perth (one green for the reference...)

----------


## kingwilly

> Pretty clear from some of the comments in this thread that some people aren't suited to having children.


yup.

or just had them yet, their tune will change.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> the difference is that people don't need to go to a restaurant or bar - particularly with children - and often air travel is the only realistic choice.
> 
> 
> Children and their parents don't need to travel in business class though.


Nobody _needs_ to travel in business class, but why shouldn't they have the option if it's open to them.  What next, limit business class to persons of _X_ age, _Y_ height, and _Z_ gender.


> Simply because the premium cabins are often used by people who have specifically paid more to have a more relaxing and comfortable experience on that flight.


That doesn't automatically preclude parents with children.  In fact it can specifically include them.

----------


## EmperorTud

> Nobody needs to travel in business class, but why shouldn't they have the option if it's open to them.


For the reasons I outlined above.

There's also a reason it is called _business class_. People who fly regularly to and from meetings between countries and continents certainly need to travel business. A good sleep and relaxing journey is essential and conducive to productivity. 




> That doesn't automatically preclude parents with children. In fact it can specifically include them.


It doesn't with all airlines but it should. If there is a demand for parents with children flying in a better class than economy then separate cabins, and a separate class should be introduced, as I pointed out earlier.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> Nobody needs to travel in business class, but why shouldn't they have the option if it's open to them.
> 
> 
> For the reasons I outlined above.


Those aren't valid reasons.


> There's also a reason it is called _business class_.


They also have _first class_. Does that mean only 'first class' people can fly in first class? Who decides who is 'first class' and who isn't?


> It doesn't with all airlines but it should. If there is a demand for parents with children flying in a better class than economy then separate cabins, and a separate class should be introduced, as I pointed out earlier.


Should've, could've, would've... doesn't. It's a moot point anyways, passengers with children are entitled to fly however they please. If that bothers you then it's your problem and the onus is on you to fly with an airline that doesn't allow it - like it or lump it basically.

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## Marmite the Dog

Fek me! You lot do go on...and on.....and on..... and.... ZzZzzzzzz......

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## AntRobertson

> Fek me! You lot do go on...and on.....and on..... and.... ZzZzzzzzz......


Four or 5 comments in a 5pg thread... Cool yer jets, precious.

Don't read the thread if it bothers you.  Exit's thataway - - - - >

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> Don't read the thread if it bothers you.


How am I supposed to do my modding malarky if I don't read the threads?

----------


## AntRobertson

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> Don't read the thread if it bothers you.
> 
> 
> How am I supposed to do my modding malarky if I don't read the threads?


How are you supposed to do your modding marlarky with such a subjective point-of-view?

Why do you mod 'Australia, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea Travel Forum' anyways?  :Confused:

----------


## MeMock

Marmite as you questioned my statement about infants helping compensate your fare may I please direct you to this new thread I just started.

https://teakdoor.com/thailands-travel...ines-suck.html

----------


## Nawty

^ Why are you departing Los so quick anyway and just after buyin a twuck ?

Don't like it here no more ?

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> Why do you mod 'Australia, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea Travel Forum' anyways?


I do all the travel stuff. 




> Marmite as you questioned my statement about infants helping compensate your fare may I please direct you to this new thread I just started.


I read that already.

----------


## MeMock

> ^ Why are you departing Los so quick anyway and just after buyin a twuck ?
> 
> Don't like it here no more ?


If you read he thread you would have noticed I said a 'return' ticket.  :Smile:

----------


## peterpan

> Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> ...


I believe Marmers read a book about those countries once and he does like the beer from downunder.

----------


## EmperorTud

> Those aren't valid reasons.


Of course they are. If someone pays for a service then that service should be delivered. Having children in the cabin is sometimes to the detriment of that service being provided therefore it should not be allowed. It's that simple.




> They also have first class. Does that mean only 'first class' people can fly in first class? Who decides who is 'first class' and who isn't?


The airline decides who is 'first class' and who isn't!

I think you'll find the vast majority of people that fly business or first class without children, i.e. the vast majority of the customers that use these services and for whom they are intended would agree with me here.

----------


## MeMock

The airlines definition of who is first class is anyone who can pay the fare.

----------


## AntRobertson

> The airline decides who is 'first class' and who isn't!


Like Memock says, it's defined by who can and does pay.  The airline could give a flying-fig who the actual person is much less what 'class' they are.


> I think you'll find the vast majority of people that fly business or first class without children, i.e. the vast majority of the customers that use these services and for whom they are intended would agree with me here.


And I think you'll find the vast majority of those people vastly over-state the case and if they have a problem with parents taking their children business class then tough-tittie, they can exercise their discretion and find another airline that doesn't allow it.  To them I would merely say; 'good luck'.  :Smile:

----------


## MeMock

22,000 baht for an infant. Thieving mungrel dogs.

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## Nawty

Get even...let the child be free....free to scream the whole flight long.

----------


## slimboyfat

> Originally Posted by MeMock
> 
> 
> What happened with Singapore airlines?
> 
> 
> It was a balls-up of epic proportions!
> 
> We had called them to confirm both the booking and the seats (as you know the bassinets can only go on the bulkheads) several days prior. When we went to the gate at Changi airport I knew from one look something was up as it was packed. 
> ...


Sorry I havent read the whole thread so don't know if this has been mentioned already....

but if you book with Singapore airlines online you get to choose your seats at the time of booking, even on economy class. Thats what I did on our trip to the UK.

However if you book through a travel agent I have heard that you can't do this.

----------


## Jet Gorgon

Love the kid snaps, Ant!

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## EmperorTud

> The airlines definition of who is first class is anyone who can pay the fare.


Apparently not, as First Class travel is given free to many, especially on Thai; including VIPs, MPs and TG directors and board members.

It's not _always_ about the money.

----------


## passengers

Kids in First Class are like a hair in a fine soup.

----------


## MeMock

> Get even...let the child be free....free to scream the whole flight long.


If I can't argue my way out of it I am going to pay the extra 4,000 baht and get her, her own seat and then.....

teach her how to press the hostess button.......

let them bring out a full adult meal and I will just leave it in front of her and let her eat it 'her way'

Ignore her when she poos her pants

Poke her every now and then to keep the screaming at a decent decibel

Make sure we request plenty of junk food so that she throws it up when we hit turbulence.... any other ideas?

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## Nawty

Run up and down the isle.

Stand at the toilet banging the door repeatedly.

Keep opening the curtains between biz class and cattle.

Lay down in the aisle and sleep.

Use the safety card as a fold up paper aeroplane.

Non stop kicking of the seats in front of her.

Sit in front of the food trolley and refuse to move.

Bring along finger painting materials and use the back of the seat in front as a creative board.

The overhead reading lamps flash on and off like a disco if she pushes them fast enough.

The life jacket whistle is very loud.

----------


## terry57

> Even funnier watching them stew in their own juices.
> 
> My kids have flown countless times, never has one of them even cried on a plane.
> 
> I would have sympathy for people if they played up and would do anything I can to sort that, but it's the tossers who hate you from the minute you get on that I love. The sort that wanna lean over and pinch the kid so he cries and then they can get outraged. They are just wonderful people.
> 
> In all my flights I can never once remember a child playing up ever. It's obviously not that common an occurrence. More one imagined by the 'curtain twitcher' types I think.





What are you jawing on about Bobby?

If your kids are so brilliant than this thread don't refer to you does it so your comments referring to people stewing in there own juices are absolute bullshit and pointless.

Never seen anyone do that just because someone fly's with a child but Ive seen people pissed off when the said child is throwing a spack screaming down the plane.

This is what we are discussing by the way.

Get real matey.

----------


## Nawty

Yeah Knobs....get real.

Drama queen.

----------


## terry57

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> 
> Pretty clear from some of the comments in this thread that some people aren't suited to having children.
> 
> 
> yup.
> 
> or just had them yet, their tune will change.



No I would not, 

I would be horrified and embarrassed if my children caused a scene on a plane and caused uncomfort to other Passengers but people like you, Bobby and Aunty could not give a flying fok and Bobby actually revels in it thinking its fair crack.

Unthoughtful bastard at best.   

Just goes to show where your mind set is Willy,  Jackman attitude coming to play once again.

Fok the majority Eh matey. ?

----------


## AntRobertson

> Sorry I havent read the whole thread so don't know if this has been mentioned already....
> 
> but if you book with Singapore airlines online you get to choose your seats at the time of booking, even on economy class. Thats what I did on our trip to the UK.
> 
> However if you book through a travel agent I have heard that you can't do this.


That's a good tip but maybe it's flight specific?  Just had a quick look at the BKK - AKL flight and doesn't appear you can do that (although I didn't navigate further than the payment details screen).

----------


## Bobcock

> I would be horrified and embarrassed if my children caused a scene on a plane and caused uncomfort to other Passengers but people like you, Bobby and Aunty could not give a flying fok and Bobby actually revels in it thinking its fair crack.


Your inability to read shines through.

I specifically said that if my kids cause a scene they would be dealt with. They never have.

What I said was I revel in the sight of people who instantly hate the fact the kids are there and stew in your own juices almost willing something to happen so they can be annoyed.

Maybe you should take as much care in reading my point as I put into making it clearly.

Incidently, you are showing this trait of wanting to be annoyed without even setting foot on a plane. I'd fucking love to sit next to you with my kids. You wouldn't even know they were there, yet you'd hate every minute of the journey.

Care to dispute this post?

Ignorant bastard at best.

----------


## terry57

> Passengers with children are entitled to fly however they please.



Ow yes, another outstanding statement coming from our resident brain surgeon. 

A business man flying longhaul from Sydney to London on the new A380 has just payed 6 million quid so he can have a very peaceful flight and front up fresh for his very important meeting the following day.

But low and behold he finds out he's got a ginger and his foking twin babies screaming up a storm in the booth behind him ?

Get a foking grip Aunty.    Piss poor attitude you have.

----------


## Nawty

Terry....just a question.....do you usually leave the screaming kids in the burning buildings or ??

----------


## Bobcock

Nawty, you are a true Aussie, fair dinkum attitude based on getting on with stuff without complaint.

You put whinging Poms like Terry to shame.

----------


## panama hat

> You put whinging Poms like Terry to shame.


 :Stups:   Oh boy, you are in for a colourful tongue-lashing now!!!

----------


## terry57

> What I said was I revel in the sight of people who instantly hate the fact the kids are there and stew in your own juices almost willing something to happen so they can be annoyed.
> 
> 
> Absolute bullshit never seen this happen and you are being factious, trying to hammer home your mute point.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you should take as much care in reading my point as I put into making it clearly.
> 
> ...





You feeling alright Bobby ?

Your throwing up your imaginary story that you love to see people squirm when there is no reason too ?

I mean whats all that bolliks about, if your kids are OK on a plane foking goody for you.

I'm not referring to you if your kids are OK so keep it in context and read my posts correctly.

Its not very foking hard matey.    Geez.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## AntRobertson

> Nawty, you are a true Aussie, fair dinkum attitude based on getting on with stuff without complaint.
> 
> You put whinging Poms like Terry to shame.


Sheesh is Twerry still having a good old whinge and cry about this?  

I think calling him a whinging Pom is unfair to good and decent whinging Poms everywhere.

----------


## Bobcock

Of course you've never seen it, you have never taken your kids on a plane, so you are hardly qualified to have a clue what I am saying.

Of course kids can be a pain though in all the years of travel under my belt, I've yet to experience it. If I did, my sympathies would be for the parents, who doubtless would be trying to bring the situation under control as best they can.

If you have never had a bad flight then that's great, kids are obviously not as bad as you make out and therefore a seperate cabin isn't necessary. I'll sit where the airline put me, no bother for me.




> Your (sic) throwing up your imaginary story


Really, you know it's imaginary, you've lived through my eyes? What a great response, you keep saying it it'll become true, no, honest it will.

seeing as you choose to Ant Robertsonize and answer point by point, please show me where I revelled in children causing a scene. You conventiently didn't answer that.

----------


## AntRobertson

> seeing as you chosse to Ant Robertsonize and answer point by point


I've hit the big time, I've become a verb!  :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

^ Isn't that an adjective?  Either way, you've made it.

----------


## terry57

> Terry....just a question.....do you usually leave the screaming kids in the burning buildings or ??





Nope,  I love children and respect parents who raise them to respect others, be good mannered and can admit when there children are being Nawty.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Fok,  I'm not saying all kids are fok ups,  all I'm saying is that they are a total pain in the arse when there twisting off on a foking plane disturbing the punters that are trying to have a nice red wine, a read and a peaceful feed. 

I'm offering a solution to the problem by suggesting that families have there own little area up the back and all the families can enjoy each others company which is fair crack I say. 

After all is said and done its there choise to raise children so they should be prepared to give way to the majority for the comfort of all.   


Anyway Bobby sounds like he is going to shit in his undies so we dont want that to happen do we ?      

Next subject.      :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

> ^ Isn't that an adjective? Either way, you've made it.


To 'Ant Robertson' also means to get the rules of grammar horribly confused!  :Smile:

----------


## terry57

> Originally Posted by Bobcock
> 
> You put whinging Poms like Terry to shame.
> 
> 
>   Oh boy, you are in for a colourful tongue-lashing now!!!





I must tell you Mr Hat, I feel I am immune from all verbal abuse or name calling on this forum but Bobby has caused me a killing blow.

Fok matey,    calling me a Whining Pom really FOKING hurts. 


 Not fair crack that.   :Sad:   :Smile:

----------


## Nawty

> After all is said and done its there choise to raise children so they should be prepared to give way to the majority for the comfort of all.


Why the fuck should we give way for the majority ??

We are the poor bastards stuck with them 24/7....surely you should be able to put up with the possible future leaders of a country for a few short hours ?

A very selfish attitude Terry, you spend your life single and away from the screaming shits and you cannot put up with it for a few hours. how about some empathy for us ??

----------


## Marmite the Dog

Ant - Do you want this thread splitting or am I not allowed to read it?

----------


## terry57

> I'd fucking love to sit next to you with my kids. You wouldn't even know they were there, yet you'd hate every minute of the journey.




What about this bit Bobby ?

You would love to sit next to me so I'd be pissed off that you were there? 

Could not give a flying fuk as long as your kids behaved.  Not a problem matey.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Ant - Do you want this thread splitting or am I not allowed to read it?


Of course you're allowed to read it, precious.  :Razz: 

Splitting?  Nah.  I thought it was crap to begin with owing to my shite skills with a camera, I'm quite happy that the discussion's evolved into something (relatively) interesting at least.  Mind you I do have Twerry on ignore, but I presume he's just dribbling on the same as usual so no harm there I guess.  :Smile:

----------


## terry57

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> 
> After all is said and done its there choise to raise children so they should be prepared to give way to the majority for the comfort of all.   
> 
> 
> 
> Why the fuck should we give way for the majority ??
> 
> ...




I feel very sorry for you Nawty but it was your choice to spread your seed and raise kiddies. Fair crack to you as its a massive responsibility and you have my respect,  some bastard must do it.

Cant have us single fellas running around having all the fun as every bastard would want to do it.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

But NO fuk it matey, I'm EXTREMELY sorry but its your choice to spit out the rug rats so you must give way to the majority, same as democracy matey , the people rule.  Its a majority decision not a foking minority gig.

The people have ruled in this case and your up the back with Bobby.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Have a good flight.    :Smile:

----------


## terry57

> Mind you I do have Twerry on ignore, but I presume he's just dribbling on the same as usual so no harm there I guess.




Fok me Aunty,

You've had me on ignore for 6 friggin months SO come back and fight like a man you ginger  bastard.  :Smile:

----------


## Bobcock

Strawberry Blonde actually.

----------


## Nawty

> and your up the back with Bobby.  
> 
> Have a good flight.



Thats fine by me, my kids and Knobsky's.

You see, you will be up the front, we will be down the back having all the fun.

And our raucus behaviour and laughter will be echoing up to the front of the plane, as our mouths are at the front of our heads and the soundwaves travel forward.

Even better, when the plane crashes, the rear of the plane is supposed to be on a percentage average of all crashes, the safest spot.

So both mine and knobsy's kids will be jumping on your body to get outa the plane alive while you sit up front, with ya seatbelt on and ya Ipod melted around your ears, but with a content and happy look on your dead ashen face.

 :Smile:

----------


## terry57

Urr Umm,  thanks for that Nawty,   I think ?   :Sad:   :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

Hmm, nice direction this thread has taken . . . 

We've flown C-Class many times with our kids (when the company was paying for it, plus miles for the family) and it is actually not practical as the seats are either a 1-1-1 or 1-1 or 2-2-2 config and there's no way to raise the armrests . . . not ideal fr young children who need to be carries and cuddled . . . having said that there were always empty seats to place the little ones on after they had fallen asleep. 

If you pay then you get what you want. 

Having a separate area for young children on plabes can also be self-defeating as there are kids who are quiet and fall asleep easily and then there are those who don't.  These children will wake up and get the quiet ones cranky and then all hell breaks loose. 

We, as travellers, have to live with the fact that children may be negatively affected by flying and it certainly isn't the parents fault when they try everything to keep the kids quiet . . . in the sense of crying . . . and they are the worst affected by this. 

Had a doozy on the way to Manila a few weeks ago, Cebu Pacific flight leaving KL at app. 01.00 and the kids on board were already cranky as it was past their bedtime . . . one little one screamed for three hours staright while the mother was doing her best to keep the kid quiet.  Stressed out is not the word for her state. 


(Ok, why doesn't my Firefox do spell checking anymore on my new laptop . . . is it because of visio?)

----------


## Zpete

If you book online wth Thai, you are able to checkin, select seats in the 24 hours prior to flight.
If you book thru an agent, make sure he books you an e_ticket, using Amadeus which is Thai's system default, otherwise you cannot checkin online.
Most travel agents worth their socks, will book you your desired seats, if not go elsewhere
First thing I do when arriving at Swampy, is go to Thai office on dep level and book my fave seat for my return trip.
No hassle, girls are so obliging.
Staying for a cupla months or longer, one forgets about things like that.

----------


## English Noodles

> So both mine and knobsy's kids will be jumping on your body to get outa the plane alive while you sit up front, with ya seatbelt on and ya Ipod melted around your ears, but with a content and happy look on your dead ashen face.


Only to be eaten by sharks. :Sad:

----------


## Nawty

Terry's nightmare was telepatheticaly telepathed ? to me last night....



'About 90 fifth-graders piled into the plane I was in, on their way home from a school trip.
  Once we were in the air, and the crew began serving drinks, I could hear them pleading with the children to settle down and let the other passengers get some sleep.
  No amount of reasoning seemed to help, until I thought of the solution that actually worked.
  I picked up the PA mike in the cabin and announced,
  "Children, this is the captain speaking.  Don't make me stop this airplane and come back there and make you go play outside"
  Silence.

----------


## Nawty

Here ya go Terry...

----------


## Nawty



----------


## Nawty



----------


## slimboyfat

> Originally Posted by slimboyfat
> 
> 
> Sorry I havent read the whole thread so don't know if this has been mentioned already....
> 
> but if you book with Singapore airlines online you get to choose your seats at the time of booking, even on economy class. Thats what I did on our trip to the UK.
> 
> However if you book through a travel agent I have heard that you can't do this.
> 
> ...


I don't think it is flight specific, but now I come to think of it I think you only get to choose the seats AFTER making payment. Still should be some of those seats left if you book in advance - after all i think most people try to avoid those seats in the centre and will try for the window or aisle seats at the sides of the plane.
I chose our seats about 3 months before we even made the trip

----------


## Nawty



----------


## Nawty

Here is some instruction for you to remember Terry...

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> I don't think it is flight specific, but now I come to think of it I think you only get to choose the seats AFTER making payment.


My AirAsia booking was like that - definitely after the payment.

----------


## terry57

Urm,    thanks for the advice Nawty always new you were an educated man.  :Smile:

----------


## EmperorTud

> My AirAsia booking was like that - definitely after the payment.


Same as the other similar carrier Jetstar. Did they try to charge extra for certain seats as Jetstar do?

Best thing I ever bought for flying was a pair of active noise cancelling in ear earphones which cancel out outside noise. They even came with an adaptor so you can use them with the two-pronged airplane sockets.

----------

