#  >  > Non Asia Travel Forums >  >  > Australia & New Zealand Travel Forum >  >  Australian History

## David48atTD

A perspective, factual in part, opinion in others.

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## AntRobertson

Speaking of Australian history though, this seems to have almost completely flown under the radar but...

Remember the outrage and cries of cultural vandalism when the Taliban dynamited the 1,700 year old Buddhas of Bamiyan statues or ISIS destroying of thousand year-old Palmyran temples and statues by ISIS? Well last Sunday Rio Tinto blasted away a 46,000 year old aboriginal site, the Juukan Gorge cave, source of some of the most unique and priceless artefacts in Australian archeological history, 'the only inland site showing signs of continual human occupation through the last ice age'. 

Rio Tinto destroyed this site to expand an iron ore mine and... Well pretty much nothing.

Rio Tinto blasts 46,000-year-old Aboriginal site to expand iron ore mine | Indigenous Australians | The Guardian

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## tomcat

> Remember the outrage and cries of cultural vandalism when the Taliban dynamited the 1,700 year old Buddhas of Bamiyan statues or ISIS destroying of thousand year-old Palmyran temples and statues by ISIS? Well last Sunday Rio Tinto blasted away a 46,000 year old aboriginal site, the Juukan Gorge cave, source of some of the most unique and priceless artefacts in Australian archeological history, 'the only inland site showing signs of continual human occupation through the last ice age'.
> 
> Rio Tinto destroyed this site to expand an iron ore mine and... Well pretty much nothing.


...the US and NATO subsequently droned, bombed and maimed the Taliban, forcing them (temporarily) back into Pakistan...I assume you want that outcome for Rio Tinto as well though I doubt the CEO speaks Urdu...

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## HuangLao

> Speaking of Australian history though, this seems to have almost completely flown under the radar but...
> 
> Remember the outrage and cries of cultural vandalism when the Taliban dynamited the 1,700 year old Buddhas of Bamiyan statues or ISIS destroying of thousand year-old Palmyran temples and statues by ISIS? Well last Sunday Rio Tinto blasted away a 46,000 year old aboriginal site, the Juukan Gorge cave, source of some of the most unique and priceless artefacts in Australian archeological history, 'the only inland site showing signs of continual human occupation through the last ice age'. 
> 
> Rio Tinto destroyed this site to expand an iron ore mine and... Well pretty much nothing.
> 
> Rio Tinto blasts 46,000-year-old Aboriginal site to expand iron ore mine | Indigenous Australians | The Guardian



Such a shame.

Not considered Occidental in nature, therefore can't be worthy of historical perspective.

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## AntRobertson

> ...the US and NATO subsequently droned, bombed and maimed the Taliban, forcing them (temporarily) back into Pakistan...I assume you want that outcome for Rio Tinto as well though I doubt the CEO speaks Urdu...


It's just a stark contrast is alls really. 

On the one hand called 'unforgivable barbarianism' and on the other doubtless dismissed as 'the progress / price of capitalism' -- yet the effect on priceless and irreplaceable history and artifacts is exactly the same.

Hard to imagine this being allowed in any other allegedly civilised country, but here we are.

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## Neverna

It's the hypocrisy of the chauvinistic "West".

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## prawnograph

In the news last week, Australia's Tasmanian Tiger

*'Precious' footage from 1935 of last-known Tasmanian tiger released*
CNN
May 19, 2020

(CNN)Video footage of the last known thylacine, or Tasmanian tiger, has been released by the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia (NFSA).
In the 21-second clip the animal, named Benjamin, is prowling around his cage at Beaumaris Zoo in Hobart, Tasmania, according to a press release.
The footage, released Tuesday, was filmed in 1935 for a travelogue called "Tasmania The Wonderland," just a few months before Benjamin passed away.




Thylacines were large carnivorous marsupials that looked like a cross between a wolf, a fox, and a large cat. They hunted kangaroos and other marsupials as well as rodents and small birds, according to the Australian Museum.
Benjamin was the last known thylacine in captivity and these are the last confirmed moving images of the species. His death on September 7 1936 is thought to have marked the extinction of the species after another specimen died at London Zoo in 1931.

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## Switch

Restoring trophic pyramids for top predators has been popular with conservationists for decades. Its nature at work, often stymied by agriculture.
Gradually overcome when species re-introduction improves the quality and natural essence of lost harmony.

Eurasian beaver - Wikipedia

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## OhOh

*The Sacking of Gough Whitlam and the Royal Intention Behind the Five Eyes

*_


"An important reckoning with a great historical injustice  is underway in Australia which presents the world with a rare  opportunity to look into the darker corners of the corridors of power  too often ignored by even the most ardent truth seekers among us.__This reckoning has taken the form of a four-year, hard fought legal  battle which a lone crowd funded Australian historian named Jenny  Hocking waged in the highest courts of her nation to win the right on  May 30, 2020 to make 211 secret letters held within Australia’s National  Archives public for the first time since they were deposited in 1978._
_
These palace letters were written between the Queen of England (via  her personal secretary) and her Governor General in Australia Sir Philip  Kerr during the latter’s tenure as official Head of State during the  interim of 1974-1978 and until last week’s court ruling, were intended  to be kept hidden until December 8, 2037._
_
What makes these letters such a point of national controversy is that  they contain information which will undoubtedly shed light upon the  active role of the Queen herself in carrying out an act which  essentially amounted to a modern coup d’état of November 11, 1975.  During this sad period, Kerr made history by not only sacking the  elected Prime Minister Gough Whitlam, but also revealed the scope and  nature of the British Monarchy’s very real powers in our modern age._
_
These are bizarre god-like prerogative powers which those forces  controlling today’s globally extended empire would much rather keep  concealed from public view.
_
_Gough Whitlam: An Intolerable Threat to the Empire_
_
It is admittedly difficult for some westerners to contemplate how a  white Commonwealth prime minister could suffer a coup in our modern  times… are not coups usually something reserved for Asiatic, Latin  American, or African revolutionary leaders?_
_
When one looks upon a list of coups during the Cold War period, that  has certainly tended to be the general rule… but like every rule,  exceptions are always to be found._
_
By reviewing the nature of Whitlam’s political struggle, his policy  reforms and greater vision for Australia, it becomes clear what sort of  enemy he made and why the highest powers of the Five Eyes and Global  Empire ousted him._
_
Before his December 2, 1972 victory, Gough Whitlam gave a brilliant  speech which set him aside from the typical slavish pro-imperial stooges  who tended to litter Australia’s political elite when he said in


:_
_
“The decision we will make for our  country on 2 December is a choice between the past and the future,  between the habits and fears of the past, and the demands and  opportunities of the future. There are moments in history when the whole  fate and future of nations can be decided by a single decision. For  Australia, this is such a time. It’s time for a new team, a new program,  a new drive for equality of opportunities: it’s time to create new  opportunities for Australians, time for a new vision of what we can  achieve in this generation for our nation and the region in which we  live. It’s time for a new government- a Labor Government.”_
_
Whitlam launched into his role as Prime Minister as a progressive  juggernaut who revolutionized literally every aspect of Australian  society, awakening a deep-seated yearning for true independence and  taking on some of the largest power structures of the Anglo-American  empire. Just to appreciate the scale of these reforms, let us review a  few of them here._
_
1- Days after his election, Whitlam began negotiations to establish  full diplomatic relations with Mainland China, breaking off relations  with Taiwan._
_
2- Conscription which had forced thousands of young Australians to  Vietnam was ended, Australia ended its participation in the war,  imprisoned draft dodgers were released and the death penalty was  abolished._
_
3- A committee was created with the full backing of the federal  government to enforce equal pay for men and women while free  universities as well as free health insurance were begun._
_
4- Whitlam began sanctioning Apartheid South Africa while banning all sports teams which practiced racial discrimination._
_
5- Large scale urban renewal programs were launched extending modern  sewage systems to all urban centers, while new roads, rail,  electrification and flood prevention programs were built. Highways  linked of Australia’s capitals for the first time and standard gauge  rail was established to accelerate continental development strategies  (whether Africa or Australia, the British Empire never permitted common  rail gauges in order to prevent internal development while keeping its  “possessions” reliant on maritime trade)._
_
6- On aboriginal rights, Whitlam tackled the injustices of  colonialism by granting natives the right to own their traditional lands  and granted independence to Papua New Guinea._
_
7- Culturally, he kindled a sense of independence from British  Imperial traditions by replacing God Save the Queen with a new national  anthem and patronized a National Art Gallery.__

Standing up to the Five Eyes and Multinational Cartels__

Within the first weeks of 1973, Whitlam’s team soon discovered the  insidious nature of the international Five Eyes intelligence  organization and upon discovering the scope of MI6/CIA operations in  Australia, ordered a crackdown on the Australian Security and  Intelligence Organization (ASIO) on March 13, 1973 under the authority  of Attorney General Lionel Murphy. In his June 1st report on Consortium News,  investigative reporter John Pilger stated: “Gough Whitlam knew the risk  he was taking. The day after his election, he ordered that his staff  should no longer be “vetted or harassed” by the Australian security  organisation, ASIO, which was then, as now, tied to Anglo-American  intelligence.”_
_
In a 2014 report,  Pilger made the point that Whitlam had received a secret telex message  from William Shackly (head of the CIA’s East Asia division) calling him a  “security threat” on November 10, 1975, and before he could make these  facts known to the parliament the next day, Whitlam was promptly called  into the Governor General’s office where he was promptly fired under  royal decree._
_
Whitlam’s most unforgivable of sins was the policy to “buy back the  farm” to take back control of Australia’s resources- 62% of which were  own by multinational cartels such as London’s Rio Tinto. Whitlam sought  loans to buy Australia’s resources not from western banking sources in  London or Wall Street but rather Middle Eastern nations who were awash  in cash during the oil price increases of 1973-75. According to Minerals  and Energy Minister Rex Connor, the loans were designed for 20 years  and tied to large scale national development mega projects which would  have extinguished the $4.5 billion of debt incurred. This process would  have worked in a similar manner to the debt repayment process of FDR’s  New Deal projects of the 1930s, JFK’s Apollo program of the 1960s or  China’s Belt and Road Initiative of our modern age._
_
Why the disclosure still may not happen_
_
In spite of the fact that the High Court ruled that the palace  letters could now be accessed, the prerogative to follow the court’s  orders is still left to the discretion of the head of the National  Archives David Fricker- a strange character who has shown a decade of  resistance to professor Hocking and even the High Court, telling ABC  News: “We are not like a library or a museum.. I am required to  diligently go through those things and just make sure that our release  of these records is responsible, it’s ethical and it complies with the  law.” Perhaps Fricker’s former job as Deputy Director of the ASIO may  have something to do with this resistance._
_
While Fricker and other opponents of the letters’ release make the  claim that they are merely personal correspondences of a private nature,  Sir Edward Young (Personal secretary to the Queen) has demonstrated  this to be a fraud as he cried out that their declassification “could  damage not only international relations but also the trusting  relationship between Her Majesty and her representatives overseas”. How  could benign “personal correspondences” do that?_
_
In a June 1st blog,  Professor Hocking stated “It is surely an unusual position for the  National Archives, which describes itself as a ‘pro-disclosure  organisation’, to contest this action at significant expense – initially  of almost one million dollars – at a time of severe budget and staff  cuts”. She also made the point that “before lodging them in the  Archives, the letters had been kept by Smith in the Government House  ‘strong room under absolute security’ again in an official capacity,  which scarcely suggested the letters were ‘personal’.”_
_
What does the Empire have to fear?_
_
The British Empire has worked very hard over the years to portray the  image that the Crown is a benign symbol of conservative values without  any real power and that the British Empire is a mere relic of the past.  If anything critical is permitted to seep through the cracks of a  squeeky clean veneer of austere traditional values, then Britain’s  propagandists in the mainstream media and academia are sure to spin  information in such a manner as to convey the idea that Britain is  merely a second ringer to the real global villain: America._
_
The true story of Whitlam’s sacking, and the Crown’s active hand as  an invisible yet real force shaping world imperial policy (including the  Five Eyes) is an uncomfortable fact which imperial strategists would  prefer forever remain in the shadows._
_
In the next segment of this story, we will delve more deeply into the  real nature of the British Empire as a very active, very powerful,  albeit (usually) very invisible force shaping current world affairs.:

The Sacking of Gough Whitlam and the Royal Intention Behind the Five Eyes — Strategic Culture
_
Will more exciting history from Australia follow or will the evidenc sudenly becomee illegable or the Australian historian named Jenny Hocking die "quietly in her sleep"?

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## Klondyke

> It's the hypocrisy of the chauvinistic "West".


Paradoxically, what was the name of the smooth neckchocking officer? 

George Floyd murder suspect Derek *Chauvin* ...

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## cyrille

Good point. Also paradoxically, vin chaud has a lot of recipes


A Traditional French Vin Chaud Recipe




 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## OhOh

> A Traditional French Vin Chaud Recipe


Is there an Australian version?

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## Klondyke

> Good point. Also paradoxically, vin chaud has a lot of recipes


Not quite getting the "point" how the "Vin Chaud" conjugates with "Chauvinismus"...




> Chauvinism is a form of extreme patriotism and nationalism and a belief in national superiority and glory. It can also be defined as "an irrational belief in the superiority or dominance of one's own group or people".[1] Moreover, the chauvinist's own people are seen as unique and special while the rest of the people are considered weak or inferior.[1]
> 
> According to legend, French soldier Nicolas Chauvin was badly wounded in the Napoleonic Wars. He received a pension for his injuries but it was not enough to live on. After Napoleon abdicated, Chauvin was a fanatical Bonapartist despite the unpopularity of this view in Bourbon Restoration France. His single-minded blind devotion to his cause, despite neglect by his faction and harassment by its enemies, started the use of the term.[2]
> 
> Chauvinism has extended from its original use to include fanatical devotion and undue partiality to any group or cause to which one belongs, especially when such partisanship includes prejudice against or hostility toward outsiders or rival groups and persists even in the face of overwhelming opposition


Chauvinism - Wikipedia

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## Neverna

> Paradoxically, what was the name of the smooth neckchocking officer? 
> 
> George Floyd murder suspect Derek *Chauvin* ...


Not quite getting your point of how that former Minneapolis police officer fits in with this thread on Australian history, klondyke.  

What exactly is the paradox that you see?

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## cyrille

^^ The point was that you're posting off-topic and using words you clearly don't understand* yet again.


*

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## ootai

> Speaking of Australian history though, this seems to have almost completely flown under the radar but...
> 
> Remember the outrage and cries of cultural vandalism when the Taliban dynamited the 1,700 year old Buddhas of Bamiyan statues or ISIS destroying of thousand year-old Palmyran temples and statues by ISIS? Well last Sunday Rio Tinto blasted away a 46,000 year old aboriginal site, the Juukan Gorge cave, source of some of the most unique and priceless artefacts in Australian archeological history, 'the only inland site showing signs of continual human occupation through the last ice age'. 
> 
> Rio Tinto destroyed this site to expand an iron ore mine and... Well pretty much nothing.






> It's just a stark contrast is alls really. 
> 
> On the one hand called 'unforgivable barbarianism' and on the other doubtless dismissed as 'the progress / price of capitalism' -- yet the effect on priceless and irreplaceable history and artifacts is exactly the same.
> 
> Hard to imagine this being allowed in any other allegedly civilised country, but here we are.



As someone who has worked in mining and had to deal with aboriginal heritage sites I can't really understand how this could have happened and someone i.e. senior management needs to get a bit more than a rocket for it. They should have had very robust (infallible) procedures in place to prevent such a thing occurring.

However having said that there are some "sites" that are deemed by some people to be significant which are not.
At the site I worked at I had a visit from the archaeologist who originally identified all the sites on the mine and he was of the opinion that out of the hundreds he had identified there were perhaps 3 that warranted further investigation. He said that those 3 should be the site of an approved "dig" to find and record all the relevant information but then they were not of such importance they would require preservation in the future.

In case mentioned above I do however think that that particular site seems to have been more substantial and significant than any I dealt with.

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## Fondles

> Is there an Australian version?


Drink on the Cheap With Home-Brewed Vegemite Beer - Eater

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## Saint Willy

> Drink on the Cheap With Home-Brewed Vegemite Beer - Eater


Bit useless without the freaking recipe!

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## Klondyke

> Not quite getting your point of how that former Minneapolis police officer fits in with this thread on Australian history, klondyke. 
> 
> What exactly is the paradox that you see?


I knew that my remarks will be "commented" by some...

OK, for the ones who likes not to understand my poor English, you wrote it, didn't you? 




> It's the hypocrisy of the chauvinistic "West".


And that that's very fitting for the West, especially USA, "hypocrisy, chauvinisms, double standard". 

And paradoxically, the one who triggered the current turmoil is named Chauvin, same name the "chauvinism" come from. And what we are seeing now what resulting from all of this?   

Chauvinism (any twisting of the facts and of the meaning will be good for the political gain - we are exceptional...) 

Hypocrisy (take a knee! we show how we mean it good for all, give us the vote...) 


(However, who did not get my "point", no problem, can live without it...)

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## panama hat

> I knew that my remarks will be "commented" by some...


It's a forum . . . are you THAT dense?

Simple - you wrote something, yet again, that has nothing to do with the thread just to get another dig in at the US - you do that fairly well in every post and thread.  THAT is the point.  There are many threads concerning the US on here where you throw your shit - why not give it a rest on other threads

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## David48atTD

Well, that went a different direction  :Eek13: 

Speaking of Australian History ...

---

Rare stone ginger beer bottle from 1930s-era sells for record price



A rare ginger beer bottle from the 1930s, made for a Warwick soft drink company, has sold for a record price in Toowoomba.

*Key points:*
Many Australian towns had a cordial company in the 1930s with unique bottlesThe green glaze on the lip is what makes the Warwick bottle rarePeople are still finding bottles on farms worth thousands of dollars 

It has collectors encouraging people to check their sheds and old farm dumps for possible 'buried treasure'.

Rare stone ginger beer bottle from 1930s-era sells for record price - ABC News

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## Switch

As I’m sure you are aware, the debate over modern day Australians, and the indigenous peoples of that wondrous land have been aired on here before.
It will therefore come as no surprise that Terry has come down in favour of the modern australian, believing, as many do, that the indigenous peoples receive to many government favours, and tolerances due to their indigenous status.
His view that money and allowances are wasted, because they are all dumb drunks who just piss it up against the wall.
Dig a little deeper, and the reasons for this mistrust are plainly evident. It’s a bit like Brits living peacefully alongside ethnic minority groups.
Despite your relatively short history, I would suggest there is still much to learn from the colourful history of your wonderful country.
I am happy to engage in historic debates with anyone who will appreciate the rights and wrongs on both sides. As a member of our joint English speaking heritage, have at it.
My last foray into this quagmire of opinion taught me much about the history of Australia and our modern day colonial cousins.  :Smile:

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## panama hat

> As a member of our joint English speaking heritage, have at it.


Pfffffft!

Ahem . . . as a supporter of calling the national day 'Invasion Day', I think my opinion is quite clear.

Considering that aborigines make up roughly 2% of the population, with the percentage decreasing every year, they do receive far more funding per cap than others . . . but how can that make up for virtual enslavement since colonisation?  It can't.  





> I would suggest there is still much to learn from the colourful history of your wonderful country.


And it's changing slowly.  It has been changing slowly, but surely.  Just like one can't expect them to be pronounced equal simply by edict, one cannot expect them to stand on their own collective feet by the same definition.

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## Klondyke

Receiving many "thanking" messages re my conjunction of the infamous Derek Chauvin and Chauvinism in a thread about Australian history. 

I fully understand their concern about purity of the threads as it is here always emphasized. Mea culpa, I am not so good in "purifying" the treads with the vocabulary I am reading in many responses of honorable members, a vocabulary I have been failing to adopt... 

Anyway, it is no secret that chauvinism hasn't been unknown in Australia, (perhaps more than in USA) especially when welcoming the immigrants before and after WW2. 

Besides, there are many instances where about chauvinism in Australia can be read, seeing e.g.

*Australia’s prime minister is not the man he used to be*
Malcolm Turnbull used to champion immigration. Now it’s “Australia first”



> Yet since becoming prime minister two years ago, Mr Turnbull seems to have jettisoned many of his small-l views. The most obvious reversal concerns immigration. In 2013, when a government led by Labor, now the main opposition party, sought to curb temporary work visas, known as 457s, Mr Turnbull called the visas the “heart of skilled migration”; he dismissed as “chauvinistic rhetoric” claims that they robbed Australians of jobs.


The vanishing liberal - Australia’s prime minister is not the man he used to be | Asia | The Economist

*Standing up against chauvinism 
*


> Misogyny and chauvinism is alive and well in Australia, and this week Wayne Brooks saw it at its worst ― and took a stand.


Standing up against chauvinism

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## panama hat

> Australia’s prime minister is not the man he used to be
> Malcolm Turnbull used to champion immigration. Now it’s “Australia first”


At least you're not behind the times

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## nora tittoff

My hometown! Still live in Kalgoorlie Probably will die here as well.

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## OhOh

One wonders what happened to the Aboriginal peoples of Western Australia in the area, pushed away by HM armed forces or did they squandered their annual rent from the arriving europeans.

Any statues in Kalagoorie city centre praising them?

A more accurate illustration of the europeans "finding" the wealth Australia had to exploit?




The film illustrates the official attitudes less than 50 years ago.

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## ootai

> One wonders what happened to the Aboriginal peoples of Western Australia in the area, pushed away by HM armed forces or did they squandered their annual rent from the arriving europeans.
> 
> Any statues in Kalagoorie city centre praising them?
> 
> A more accurate illustration of the europeans "finding" the wealth Australia had to exploit?
> 
> The film illustrates the official attitudes less than 50 years ago.



OhOh
I assume from your questions re Aborigines of Western Australia (WA) you are not an Australian yourself.
The video you posted (which I enjoyed) is related to the road to the West of Sydney over the Blue mountains and has nothing at all to do with western Australia.
If you head west from Sydney its probably less then 150kms to where they were talking about finding the open plains beyond the mountains.
To get to WA you would have to travel something like 4000kms to get to Perth from Sydney.

My understanding of the fate of the Western Australian aborigines is that they were pushed off their lands by force as the Europeans "settled and farmed".
There are a few recorded 'battles" between the Europeans and Aborigines but with guns versus spears there was only going to be one result.

When I was young I remember travelling to country towns and nearly every one had a designated "reserve" for the Aborigines to live there.

As for aborigines in Kalgoorlie I am not sure if there ever were any that lived in the area on a permanent basis as there is no water there except when it rains.
So Aborigines from south of there around Esperance, which is about 200kms south of Kalgoorlie would have travelled up there after good rains when the waterholes would have been filled by the rain.  Western Australia is very dry once you move inland from the coast.

When gold was discovered in Coolgardie (35kms west of Kalgoorlie) the only way people could get there from Perth was to walk from water hole to waterhole. They build rock walls around big rocky outcrops to channel the rain runoff into the holes. You can still see them today. Anyway one of the greatest engineering feats (IMHO) was the construction of a pipe line from Mundaring (40kms west of Perth) all the way to Kalgoorlie 600kms away to the east. This opened up all the farming land along the way out to Merredin. After that it is almost desert all the way to Kalgoorlie.

Although there were people moving out from Perth I believe it was the gold rush to Coolgardie and then Kalgoorlie that really opened up the west.

As a matter of interest WA was not even settled when they crossed the Blue mountains. The first settlement in WA was at Albany in 1827 (I believe) and Perth was settled in 1829.
 Sorry for waffling on maybe I am getting home sick.

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## Cujo

> One wonders what happened to the Aboriginal peoples of Western Australia in the area, pushed away by HM armed forces or did they squandered their annual rent from the arriving europeans.
> 
> Any statues in Kalagoorie city centre praising them?
> 
> A more accurate illustration of the europeans "finding" the wealth Australia had to exploit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The film illustrates the official attitudes less than 50 years ago.


What 'official attitude' does that film illustrate? Just a straight historical document you moron. No 'official attitude' illustrated.
I think you'd be betteroff commenting on the Chinese 'official attitude' towards the Xinjiang Uighurs.

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## English Noodles

I wasn't sure which would be shorter, the Australian history thread or the intelligent Americans thread. :St George:

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## OhOh

> Sorry for waffling on maybe I am getting home sick.


Not to me, your information is useful and puts some perspective into Australian history.

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## OhOh

> No 'official attitude' illustrated.


Their is one clip from the, "National Film and Sound Archive" produced film, where the white guys were putting up camp. "A noise was heard in the bush by the dogs who ran of to investigate". The white guys gathered there guns but the dogs returned .

The commentary 9:13 to 19:40 : "It was later it was concluded that the "natives" had been going to attack but had been foiled by the dogs".

Which suggests the relationship between the "natives" and the "explorers" were not so amiable.

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## OhOh

> Australians, and the indigenous peoples of that wondrous land have been aired on here before.


I was not, do you remember the thread title?

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## panama hat

> One wonders what happened to the Aboriginal peoples of Western Australia in the area,





> The video you posted (which I enjoyed) is related to the road to the West of Sydney over the Blue mountains and has nothing at all to do with western Australia.


You utter moron . . . and you say that your opinion is uncomfortable for others.  No, it is your wilfull deception and outright lies just to make a 'point'

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## sabang

_"And dey werk us sooo haad"_

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## sabang

:smiley laughing:

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## Cujo

> Their is one clip from the, "National Film and Sound Archive" produced film, where the white guys were putting up camp. "A noise was heard in the bush by the dogs who ran of to investigate". The white guys gathered there guns but the dogs returned .
> 
> The commentary 9:13 to 19:40 : "It was later it was concluded that the "natives" had been going to attack but had been foiled by the dogs".
> 
> Which suggests the relationship between the "natives" and the "explorers" were not so amiable.


What's that got to do with 'official' attitudes?

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## NamPikToot

Abbos to rename Victoria.. Djarrtjuntjun

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## OhOh

> No, it is your wilfull deception.


The videos title is regarding the Australian "west". The Gold Fields are in the western part of Australia. You may suggest the prevailing attitudes of the white settlers, from the east, were exceptional.

Note, "wilfull" is misspelt, it should be "wilful". As others have illustrated there is, a squiggly red line indicating such errors, for those that proof read their post. Do you have your spell checker turned on?




> Quote Originally Posted by Switch View Post
> Australians, and the indigenous peoples of that wondrous land have been aired on here before.
> 
> I was not, do you remember the thread title?


I did ask for the for the location. As the topics may have already been posted? I don't suppose you are able to let me have the link? 
Just to read the TD committees report.

 ::chitown:: 




> outright lies just to make a 'point'


Oh dear, currently various countries are examining there historic past. Shall we keep Australia's secret?

You may wish to review this* Australian Senate Investigation Report*, prior to accusing me of lying. 

It is documented in the report, 160 pages, that abuse of their human rights/slavery, towards/of the Indigenous Australians was rampant into the 1950's - 1960's:

*Unfinished business: Indigenous stolen wages*

*7 December 2006*
                              © Commonwealth of Australia 2006

Unfinished business: Indigenous stolen wages

     – Parliament of AustraliaContact:

Committee Secretary
        Senate Standing Committees on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
PO Box 6100
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600
        Australia 




> What 'official attitude' does that film illustrate?  Just a straight historical document you moron. No 'official attitude'  illustrated





> The film illustrates the official attitudes


Possibly the Australian National Film and Sound Archive is not a government sponsored repository of life in Australia? 

I presume because it's labelled, even by yourself, as  "a straight historical document"! Presumably utilising the acceptable language, of the time, by the films creator i.e. the script wasn't "revised".

If so, it's different to the UK equivalent.




> I think you'd be betteroff commenting on the Chinese  'official attitude' towards the Xinjiang Uighurs.


As you suggest, I may well be. 

But then the thread may not reflect the "true" Australian History. As illustrated by the "Official Slavery Report" above. :Smile:

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## nora tittoff

When i was a young lad in the mid 1950's there were nomadic  aborigines that would walk around Kalgoorlie asking for a billy of tea and bread they never caused any trouble. I don't recall seeing any aborigines in Esperance when we used to go there for our summer holidays, Sadly that's all changed now. Kalgoorlie and Esperance are full of mixed blood abo's whose sole purpose in life is to make other people's lives hell.
I won't say anymore in fear of being labeled a racist.

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## Cujo

> Possibly the Australian National Film and Sound Archive is not a government sponsored repository of life in Australia? 
> 
> I presume because it's labelled, even by yourself, as  "a straight historical document"! Presumably utilising the acceptable language, of the time, by the films creator i.e. the script wasn't "revised".
> 
> If so, it's different to the UK equivalent.


Christ almighty what is the matter with you? 
It's an archive maintained by the government. Not every piece of film is going to be the 'official' attitude. Just snippets of daily life at the time in many cases. Not necessarily reflecting government official policy.

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## Cujo

This thread would benefit from some input from Terry. Can someone alert him, he's probably in a fit of apoplexy over this BLM business.

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## OhOh

*Was There Slavery in Australia? Yes. It Shouldn’t Even Be Up for Debate

* *Thalia Anthony and Stephen Gray show how the prime minister’s assertion is at odds with the historical record.*
_Thalia ANTHONY, Stephen GRAY
_
Attachment 52760

In 1891 a “Slave Map of Modern Australia” was printed in the British _Anti-Slavery Reporter_.

_"Prime Minister Scott Morrison asserted in a radio interview that “there was no slavery in Australia.”
_
_This is a common misunderstanding which often obscures our nation’s  history of exploitation of First Nations people and Pacific Islanders._
_
Morrison followed up with “I’ve always said we’ve got to be honest  about our history”. Unfortunately, his statement is at odds with the  historical record._
_
This history was widely and publicly documented, among other sources, in the 2006 Australian Senate report Unfinished Business: Indigenous Stolen Wages._
_
What is Slavery?_
_
Australia was not a “slave state” like the American South. However,  slavery is a broader concept. As Article 1 of the United Nations  Slavery Convention says:

__Slavery is the status or condition of a person over whom  any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are  exercised.__
These powers might include non-payment of wages, physical or sexual  abuse, controls over freedom of movement, or selling a person like a  piece of property. In the words of slavery historian Orlando Patterson, slavery is a form of “social death”._
_
Slavery has been illegal in the (former) British Empire since the Act for the Abolition of the Slave Trade of 1807, and certainly since 1833._
_
Slavery practices emerged in Australia in the 19th century and in some places endured until the 1950s.

Early Coverage of Slavery in Australia

Attachment 52758
_
_“Governor  Davey’s Proclamation” board, painted in 1830 and nailed to trees to  depict a policy of friendliness and to show that colonists and  Aboriginal people were equal before the law. (Government of Van Diemen’s  Land, original conception by Surveyor General George Frankland, State  Library of New South Wales, Wikimedia Commons)_
_
As early as the 1860s, anti-slavery campaigners began to invoke “charges of chattel bondage and slavery” to describe north Australian conditions for Aboriginal labour._
_
In 1891 a “Slave Map of Modern Australia” was printed in the British Anti-Slavery Reporter, a journal that documented slavery around the world and campaigned against it._
_
Reprinted from English journalist Arthur Vogan’s account of frontier relations in Queensland, it showed large areas where:_
_
… the traffic in Aboriginal labour, both children and adults, had descended into slavery conditions._

_Seeds of Slavery in Australia__
Some 62,000 Melanesian people were brought to Australia and enslaved to  work in Queensland’s sugar plantations between 1863 and 1904. First  Nations Australians had a more enduring experience of slavery,  originally in the pearling industry in Western Australia and the Torres Strait and then in the cattle industry._

_In the pastoral industry, employers exercised a high degree of  control over “their” Aboriginal workers, who were bought and sold as  chattels, particularly where they “went with” the property upon sale.  

There were restrictions on their freedom of choice and movement. There  was cruel treatment and abuse, control of sexuality, and forced labour._
_
A stock worker at Meda Station in the Kimberley, Jimmy Bird, recalled:_
_
… whitefellas would pull their gun out and kill any  Aborigines who stood up to them. And there was none of this taking your  time to pull up your boots either. No fear!_

_Aboriginal woman Ruby de Satge, who worked on a Queensland station, described the Queensland Protection Act as meaning:_
_
if you are sitting down minding your own business, a  station manager can come up to you and say, “I want a couple of  blackfellows” … Just like picking up a cat or a dog._

_
Through their roles under the legislation, police, Aboriginal protectors and pastoral managers were complicit in this force._
_ Slavery was Sanctioned by Australian Law

Attachment 52759

__Aboriginal slavery. (Nancy White, Flickr)

__Legislation facilitated the enslavement of Aboriginal people across  the Northern Territory, Western Australia, South Australia and  Queensland. Under the South Australian Aborigines Act 1911,  the government empowered police to “inspect workers and their  conditions” but not to uphold basic working conditions or enforce  payment. The Aboriginals Ordinance 1918 (Cth) allowed the forced recruitment of 

Indigenous workers in the Northern Territory, and legalised the non-payment of wages._
_In Queensland, the licence system was effectively a blank cheque to  recruit Aboriginal people into employment without their consent.  Amendments to the Aboriginal Protection and Restriction of the Sale of Opium Act 1897 gave  powers to the Protector or police officer to “expend” their wages or  invest them in a trust fund – which was never paid out._
_
Officials were well aware that “slavery” was a public relations problem. The Chief Protector in the Northern Territory noted in 1927 that pastoral workers:_
_
… are kept in a servitude that is nothing short of slavery._

_In the early 1930s, Chief Protector Dr. Cecil Cook pointed out Australia was in breach of its obligations under the League of Nations Slavery Convention._
_
‘… it certainly exists here in its worst form’_
_
Accusations of slavery continued into the 1930s, including through the British Commonwealth League._
_In 1932 the North Australian Workers’ Union (NAWU) characterised Aboriginal workers as “slaves.” 

Unionist Owen Rowe argued:_
_
If there is no slavery in the British Empire then the NT  is not part of the British Empire; for it certainly exists here in its  worst form._

_In the 1940s, anthropologists Ronald and Catherine Berndt surveyed conditions on cattle stations owned by Lord Vestey, commenting that Aboriginal people:_
_
… owned neither the huts in which they lived nor the land  on which these were built, they had no rights of tenure, and in_ _some  cases have been sold or transferred with the property._
_
In 1958, counsel for the well-known Aboriginal artist Albert Namatjira argued that the Welfare Ordinance 1953 (Cth) was unconstitutional, because the enacting legislation was:_
_
… a law for the enslavement of part of the population of the Northern Territory._
_ Profits from Slaves_
_
Australia has unfinished business in repaying wages to Aboriginal and  South Sea Islander slaves. First Nations slave work allowed big  businesses to reap substantial profits, and helped maintain the  Australian economy through the Great Depression. Aboriginal people are  proud of their work on stations even though the historical narrative is  enshrined in silence and denial._

_As Bundjalung woman Valerie Linow has said of her experiences of slavery in the 1950s:_
_
What if your wages got stolen? Honestly, wouldn’t you  like to have your wages back? Honestly. I think it should be owed to the  ones who were slave labour. We got up and worked from dawn to dusk … We  lost everything – family, everything. You cannot go stealing our lousy  little sixpence. We have got to have money back. You have got to give  something back after all this country did to the Aboriginal people. You  cannot keep stealing off us."__
https://consortiumnews.com/2020/06/16/was-there-slavery-in-australia-yes-it-shouldnt-even-be-up-for-debate/
_

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## OhOh

> Just snippets of daily life at the time in many cases


Commonly utilised in the white community regarding "others". Which by definition is "History" as scripted in the film.

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## panama hat

Deflecting again . . . and you wonder why no one takes you seriously

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## sabang

Pay back the wages of slavery? There are no wages of slavery, so repaid in full.

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## Cujo

> Commonly utilised in the white community regarding "others". Which by definition is "History" as scripted in the film.


Oh ffs, seriously, you channeling jeff now? It's just what was filmed at the time and of interest now. Would you like to burn all that film and pretend it didn't happen?
You'd have been right there cheering Mao along in the cultural revolution wouldn't you.
Go back to chinadaily you tedious twat.

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## English Noodles

Anyone who was working as a slave and still alive today should be compensated.

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## NamPikToot

^ after deducting "indefinite leave to remain" fees.

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## Iceman123

> Anyone who was working as a slave and still alive today should be compensated.


That will be more than 800,000 Amazon employees looking for compo
 :Smile:

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## Switch

> I was not, do you remember the thread title?


Not too long ago. Use the search function. I am switch, not google.

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## Switch

> *Was There Slavery in Australia? Yes. It Shouldn’t Even Be Up for Debate
> 
> * *Thalia Anthony and Stephen Gray show how the prime minister’s assertion is at odds with the historical record.*
> _Thalia ANTHONY, Stephen GRAY
> _
> Attachment 52760
> 
> In 1891 a “Slave Map of Modern Australia” was printed in the British _Anti-Slavery Reporter_.
> 
> ...


Proving that you can find support for minorities anywhere in the world.

Two things you need to understand:

Australia was originally a penal colony, settled by white westerners, using white slave labour to develop the country.
The indigenous peoples had been predominantly a transient race, moving frequently to utilize available resources. When the country eventually reached democracy, control was exercised over the Aboriginals, and their inclusion in the occupied settlements became more de veloped.

Its important to understand the time frame and infrastructure necessary to achieve this state of affairs. You cannot uninvent the historic settlement of that country nor can you judge the current standards of that country, based on your poor understanding of history.


Imagine trying to settle a country as big as Australia today? With abundant resources confined to coastal areas. A troublesome native population was only one difficulty to overcome.
Now all people are considered equal, and rightly so. Now our understanding of such settlement is more refined, and our view of humanity has changed.
It took the native population 50,000 years to exploit the abundant resources. The settlers took 200 years.

Those factual results contain no judgement by me on which approach to settlement is right, only that historical perspective is required to even attempt such judgments objectively.

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## panama hat

> settled by white westerners


Make it easy for him:  British, mainly, as non-indigenous Australians didn't exist then, not for a very long time afterwards, at last 100 years.




> Two things you need to understand:


In reality there are far more . . . but he won't listen, rather he'll reply with some long-winded article on imported Kanaks to the Qld cane-fields (there's a hint there for you OhOh - naughty white people.  Naughty Australians)

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## ootai

For anyone interested in how the West was won Google "Battle of Pinjarra".

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## Headworx

What I never see anyone offering up is a solution to this obviously massive problem. Throwing money at it clearly doesn't work, although those in the Aboriginal industry might argue that point  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): , so what's the answer? All whitey's to leave Australia and let them go back to throwing sticks at Kangaroos and each other?

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## David48atTD

^ nah ... the Chinese would just invade and rename it New South China!

Judging by what has occurred to the Uyghurs  :Tapedshut:

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## panama hat

> What I never see anyone offering up is a solution to this obviously massive problem


That's odd because this has been a feature for decades, many options tried and many failed.  It simply isn't a cookie-cutter issue and even declaring it an aboriginal probem is wrong as one tribe differs from the next.  

There is no doubt that Aboriginals have been murdered en masse, dehumanised, marginaised etc etc for centuries and yes, the 98% of the population that isn't Abiroginal, though government, needs to keep trying to solve the issue and keep it solved, which is an ongoing problem. 




> Throwing money at it clearly doesn't work, although those in the Aboriginal industry might argue that point


Yup, the vast, cast majority being white




> All whitey's to leave Australia and let them go back to throwing sticks at Kangaroos and each other?


You really think that's what many are advocating . . . and what were our ancestors doing?




> ^ nah ... the Chinese would just invade and rename it New South China!


Yea, hardly . . . the bogey-man for Oz has always been Indonesia and ther policy of populating as many aras as they can with Javanese

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## Switch

> In reality there are far more . . . but he won't listen, rather he'll reply with some long-winded article on imported Kanaks to the Qld cane-fields (there's a hint there for you OhOh - naughty white people. Naughty Australians)


Of course there are many more. My opinion was condensed for the benefit of the intended recipient. Small steps eh.

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## kmart

Probably best not mentioning Tasmania then..

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## Latindancer

Shhh....don't mention the war

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## OhOh

> the Chinese would just invade and rename it New South China!


No need to invade Australia it, along with another 101 countries of the world, has already signed up and paid their subs to join the club of the AIIB? 

Their citizens will reap their rewards/dividends, subject to Australian Government's decision. 

 Australia
3 April 2015[48]
29 June 2015
10 November 2015,
USD   3,691,200,000 with 39,323 votes.



of course China has invested the most and has the most votes:

 China[a]
24 October 2014
29 June 2015
26 November 2015
USD 29,780,400,000 with
300,215 votes



Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank - Wikipedia

AIIB Web site here:

Home - AIIB

'arry might like to read this:

*General Conditions for Sovereign-backed Loans* 

https://www.aiib.org/en/policies-str...arch-clean.pdf

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## OhOh

> but he won't listen


I am eager to be educated on Australian History. What I'm finding is massacres, robbing Aborigines of their land, herded into 'compounds" managed by overseers, funds being utilised for the gatekeepers lifestyles, their all drunken bums ....

Not unusual in Britain's Empire.

Put up here or point me to the thread where this has all been discussed previously. Where I might be educated.

My knowledge of Australian History is dismal; Captain Cook planting a Union Jack and it being run as a prison to empty English jails of the 'ne'er-do-wells".  A few snippets of 20 pound tickets for emigrants, nothing of any substance.

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## Neverna

^ Read a good book about Australian history rather than relying on threads on a shitfest and shitpost forum.

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## HuangLao

> ^ nah ... the Chinese would just invade and rename it New South China!



Well.....they were exploring, "discovering", and settling in Oz long before Europeans came around.

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## OhOh

> Read a good book about Australian history


But what "good book about Australian history" will be found useful?

Anyone, suggest some?

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## Neverna

FFS. Don't bother. Get yourself an education first.

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## English Noodles

> ^ Read a good book about Australian history rather than relying on threads on a shitfest and shitpost forum.


It's only a 'shitfest' and 'shitpost' forum because posters like you make it such.

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## Edmond

I've always found Australian history fascinating. 

It's an amazing country, that I'm very glad to have lived in and traveled throughout. 


The most interesting historical period is 40,000-70,000 years ago wrt early human migration.




> Read a good book about Australian history


ISBN, please.

Thanks.

----------


## sabang

> But what "good book about Australian history" will be found useful?
> 
> Anyone, suggest some?


The Fatal Shore, by Robert Hughes. Excellent book.

----------


## panama hat

> My knowledge of Australian History is dismal


You could have left out 'Australian History'

----------


## docmartin

> Well.....they were exploring, "discovering", and settling in Oz long before Europeans came around.


Where and when did Chinese people explore or settle in Australia before 1606 / 1788 ?

----------


## sabang

Chinese people certainly traded with the Torres Strait Islanders, in the far north of Australia. Makkasans from Indonesia too, and the Dutch also made contact with them. This before Capt Cook.

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## Dillinger

> ISBN, please.

----------


## AntRobertson

:smiley laughing: 

Good guys in, bad guys out!

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## NamPikToot

> I've always found Australian history fascinating.
> It's an amazing country, that I'm very glad to have lived in and traveled throughout.


Lulu, its not quite the same history regards settlement, convicts were sent there, you were convicted and left there.

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## David48atTD

> Where and when did Chinese people explore or settle in Australia before 1606 / 1788 ?


Apparently, and it's a memory, not a fact I can trace but, I read once that Chinese made up about 10% of Australasian population during the Great Gold Rush.



Chinese on the goldfields | Sydney Living Museums

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## Saint Willy

> ^ Read a good book about Australian history rather than relying on threads on a shitfest and shitpost forum.



That sounds far too logical.

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## Dillinger

> I've always found Australian history fascinating.


Nicking the lead off peoples roofs isn't really admiring history mate.

Did you unearth any artefacts whilst tarmaccing? :Smile:

----------

