#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Farming & Gardening In Thailand >  >  A question about Teak trees.

## Missismiggins

I planted (3 years back) about 600 teak trees, and they are getting pretty big, (8-10M) and the past week has been "pruning" time.

I noticed as I was lopping branches off (I don't have a compass - only a watch and the sun) but it would seem the me that every single tree grows its alternating branches in a North, East West South configuration.

For example, you always get two branches that grow in completely opposite directions, 180 degrees, say these are pointing North and South, then the next branches below or above are 90 degrees out, and appear to point East and West, this goes for almost every tree, we have the odd one that has an extra branch here and there, but it almost consistently follows this pattern.

Could it be true...if you get lost...follow a teak tree?

----------


## gjbkk

Just move to a new condo  :Smile:

----------


## Missismiggins

> Just move to a new condo


Cheers, that answered everything in such a short and concise post!

----------


## gjbkk

thank you I am well known for being short  :Smile:

----------


## Stinky

I only ever build boats with the stuff  :Smile:

----------


## Missismiggins

> I only ever build boats with the stuff


you build boats? like from scratch... using planks of wood? Tell me more....

----------


## Stinky

I'm still learning mate, it takes years to gain all the knowlage and skills needed but it's somint I always wanted to learn so I started learning 2 years ago, good fun and in a few years I will be able to build my own ocean going cat, which is the end goal for me  :Smile:

----------


## crazy dog

How much do they cost to buy and how much are they worth when grown.? Have a buddy who has a lot and recently had a load cut up to build a house with. It took two weeks to cut the trees into some sort of planks but the buggers charged him 100k to do it which I thought sounded far too much. He seems a bit clueless as to the woods actual worth. Does teak grow anywhere in issan?

----------


## Missismiggins

> I'm still learning mate, it takes years to gain all the knowlage and skills needed but it's somint I always wanted to learn so I started learning 2 years ago, good fun and in a few years I will be able to build my own ocean going cat, which is the end goal for me


so what have you built? I saw some interesting plans on the Net for canoe types of boats, but I really think the wood I have here will sink (It is Mai Deng - not Mai sak) and it weighs about twice the weight of teak.

It is something I fancied having a go at...nothing in your scale, I was just after a canoe or a row boat design, not a fucking CAT!!!

If you get around to it, please please document it with photos, and post em, I would be thrilled to see it!

----------


## Missismiggins

> How much do they cost to buy and how much are they worth when grown.? Have a buddy who has a lot and recently had a load cut up to build a house with. It took two weeks to cut the trees into some sort of planks but the buggers charged him 100k to do it which I thought sounded far too much. He seems a bit clueless as to the woods actual worth. Does teak grow anywhere in issan?


If you are talking about Teak Trees, then depending upon where you live, you can get them FREE, or about 3 baht for a 1 foot sappling, bigger than that you can pay more.

What they sell for....I really wait until the time comes around.

I have heard that straight teak, Golden Teak, is not easy to get, and a good fat...maybe a metre around, and 4m in length can get about 40K Baht, in Bangkok, but there will be many a hand that needs to be greased to get your trees stamped, and passed the police checkpoints.

I planted them with a 20 year window, they are for my son not me, when I am dead and gone, hopefully he can cut them and sell them.

Also, thery are not as easy to grow as Thais will tell you, they can be demolished by insects very quickly, they are not insect resistant for YEARS!!! so you need to be carefull, and you need to have plenty of water if you want them to grow quickly!

As regards your expenses with wood cutting - Yes, it indeed can be expensive. They charge by the inch thickness and the foot cut! so if you cut 1" planks, of about 3M, expect to pay through the nose compared to 1/2" planks at 2m.

Also, be careful of what wood you buy!

I have a half dozen of beautiful "black" wood trees, about 3M long and about 3m in circumference, but you cannot get anyone to cut them..they are like IRON, they will not touch them, so they need to be used as is... try a high speed saw..you get SPARKS! from WOOD!

----------


## crazy dog

very interesting thanks

----------


## shunpike

> I'm still learning mate, it takes years to gain all the knowlage and skills needed but it's somint I always wanted to learn so I started learning 2 years ago, good fun and in a few years I will be able to build my own ocean going cat, which is the end goal for me


Good show SD, and I'm with Miggsy, when you get to putting it all together, it would make and awesome build thread.

----------


## Missismiggins

> very interesting thanks



Go to your local Or Battor.. your misses will know what it is, my thai is shit, they will help you immensley..like I say, they may give you them for free, only DO NOT plant them outside your Chanote, or you will not be able to cut them later, keep them well inside you land, and try and make friends with police and local "Hi So's" Sadly, I have failed at this, but they love my son, so he should be OK, don't expect to see me flogging trees on E Bay!

I spent months digging and planting hundreds of saplings, after about two months...the rain came...I got flooded, the land not the house and it killed near as dammit every single tree I planted, (yes they were only 3 baht a pop, but it was the work I put in!!)

Anyway, after the floods, the local Or Battor asked anyone that had lost anything to register, me being a Farang, thought we would get looked over...the wife registered, and a month later, we were GIVEN 600 new sapplings, absolutely FREE, all we had to do was turn up and get our photos taken! (And dig holes and replant the fuckers!)

----------


## Stinky

> Originally Posted by Sdigit
> 
> 
> I'm still learning mate, it takes years to gain all the knowlage and skills needed but it's somint I always wanted to learn so I started learning 2 years ago, good fun and in a few years I will be able to build my own ocean going cat, which is the end goal for me 
> 
> 
> so what have you built? I saw some interesting plans on the Net for canoe types of boats, but I really think the wood I have here will sink (It is Mai Deng - not Mai sak) and it weighs about twice the weight of teak.
> 
> It is something I fancied having a go at...nothing in your scale, I was just after a canoe or a row boat design, not a fucking CAT!!!
> ...


This mai deng wood of yours would be very difficult to work with, if you wanted to build something for yourself to play with you'd be better building Hard chine dingy in marine ply, that's the easiest way to start, there are good plans and good books too, Boat building manual by R.M Stewerd 4th ed is a good one

At the moment I'm building a few frames for a 30ft mono, more of a repair job.
Mostly it's just different components for old traditional wooden boats that I build.

I don't know when I will get around to building my cat, not for a couple of years yet and if I go back yo the PI the Cat will become a Tri because of the ultra low draft they have.

I'm applying for a job working on a historic warship in the south of England, I might be able to do photo thread on that if it comes off, and if they let me take photos, that one would be interesting  :Smile:

----------


## English Noodles

> I planted (3 years back) about 600 teak trees, and they are getting pretty big, (8-10M) and the past week has been "pruning" time.


Any pics? How much land does 600 trees take up? What sort of spacing have you left between each tree? Thanks.

----------


## English Noodles

> How much land does 600 trees take up? What sort of spacing have you left between each tree?


Okay, I can answer my own question, each tree should have about 4sqm so about 400 trees to 1 rai is okay. Does anyone know todays rate for a 15 - 20 year old teak tree?

----------


## Missismiggins

> Originally Posted by English Noodles
> 
> How much land does 600 trees take up? What sort of spacing have you left between each tree?
> 
> 
> Okay, I can answer my own question, each tree should have about 4sqm so about 400 trees to 1 rai is okay. Does anyone know todays rate for a 15 - 20 year old teak tree?


You got the answer correctly...despite all the "good advice of your local know fuck all Thai" if you ask a thai, they will range from 50cm spacing to about 2 metres. This will after 10 years grow you a 5 metre toothpick! Handy, but not sellable!

If you want to get the thing to actually grow, you are correct, at least a 4M spacing, and even then you will be constantly pruning, as the upper branches end up fighting with each other.

I don't think you will get 400 trees per rai, if you space them at a reasonable distance, you are looking more like 600 trees per 6 rai.

Try and keep them about 4 M apart at at all directions, otherwise they just get totally fucked, and you end up growing 10 metre beanstalks. If you have the room, leave 6M, do not listen to Thais on this...if you plant them like a thai, any tree that gets a disease or an insect infestation, at 1 or 2 m apart, will spread it like wildfire...don't be greedy...and keep them spread out!

I will work it out on a calculator when my head works properly,  but I reckon on 100 trees per rai...the past few days I have been out cutting and pruning, I have muscle growth on my back that my wife thinks is abnormal, I have now developed really bad locking cramps in my fingers.. where you cannot let go of something..especially a beer bottle.

I have developed horrrible pains and aches in my neck from constantly looking up at branches, I have infections in both eyes from the falling sawdust (and that is not a joke - if you cut this shit - take care of your eyes, I don't know what is in it but it fucking stings!!!)

And it is not much fun for your back or neck, everywhere aches, trying to cut trees 3- 4 metres up, with a fucking handsaw tied to a 3M bamboo pole!

I should have said 100 trees per rai!

----------


## Missismiggins

> Originally Posted by English Noodles
> 
> How much land does 600 trees take up? What sort of spacing have you left between each tree?
> 
> 
> Okay, I can answer my own question, each tree should have about 4sqm so about 400 trees to 1 rai is okay. Does anyone know todays rate for a 15 - 20 year old teak tree?


You don't need to wait half a lifetime, if you treat them well, you will be flogging them after about 8 years!

Give them a bit of !5 :15:  15, once in a while..

----------


## English Noodles

I have also been reading that you can Agarwood trees between the Teak trees.

----------


## Missismiggins

> Originally Posted by Missismiggins
> 
> I planted (3 years back) about 600 teak trees, and they are getting pretty big, (8-10M) and the past week has been "pruning" time.
> 
> 
> Any pics? How much land does 600 trees take up? What sort of spacing have you left between each tree? Thanks.



I'll send you a photo! but do not space them as a Thai tells you!

----------


## Missismiggins

> I have also been reading that you can Agarwood trees between the Teak trees.


What is Agarwood.. never heard of that before?

----------


## Missismiggins

If you find out the  name, the argarwood, let me know.

I am off to the land of nod....or should I say, I am off to bed to be forced to watch fucking ASTROBOY!...this must be my pennance!

----------


## Gipsy

Agarwood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aquilaria malaccensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gaharu Engkaras Planted Saplings - Gaharu Online

Here you go, might be an idea finding a few saplings and giving it a try, ....looking at the price a good quality 'infected' wood' can fetch!

----------


## Missismiggins

> Agarwood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Aquilaria malaccensis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Gaharu Engkaras Planted Saplings - Gaharu Online
> 
> Here you go, might be an idea finding a few saplings and giving it a try, ....looking at the price a good quality 'infected' wood' can fetch!


Well well!, thanks for that Gipsy!...I will go and educate myself, never heard of it before.

----------


## English Noodles

> I should have said 100 trees per rai!


Yes, you are right, 100 trees per rai. A distance of 4M either direction between teak trees. Now the Agarwood trees can be planted 2M either direction of the Teak trees, so you have 4 agarwood trees circling each Teak tree.

----------


## good2bhappy

In the northern hemisphere lichen grows on the north face of trees more prolifically 
so yes trees here probably can be used for direction

----------


## English Noodles

Tropicalife (Thailand)จําหน่ายปลีกส่ง  นํ้ามันหอมระเหยแท้*Agarwood in  high demand*

Although petroleum from the Middle East is in high demand  around the world people from the oil rich region are coming to Thailand to find  a particular kind of oil in the eastern province of Rayong. We have more details  in this report from Thai News Agency.

High quality agarwood, which is  black and full of oil, can fetch high prices of up to tens of thousands of baht.  Agarwood producers in the eastern province of Rayong have more than 500 members  from all over the country. They work together to produce agarwood from selecting  agarwood species to processing the wood.

Every piece of agarwood is  valuable as wood bits and chips can be used to make aromatic incense sticks,  which cost 800 baht per kilogramme.

White parts of the wood scraps can  also be distilled to make aromatic essential oil, which can be sold at more than  10,000 baht for 11 grammes.

Dreg left over from the distillation process  is made into special oil used in Muslim religious ceremonies. As a result, most  customers come from Middle East nations, while some European countries also need  aromatic agarwood oil to make perfume.

Archin Kittipon, Committee member,  Agarwood Producers Group said “We can plant about 200-300 agarwood trees in 2.5  acres of land. The capital cost is around 3,000-5,000 baht. After four to five  years, we can sell an Agarwood tree without heartwood at 2,000-3,000 baht.  ”

Agarwood growers have to wait almost 10 years until Agarwood heartwood  is ready for harvesting. It’s worth waittng though, because there is high demand  for Agarwood. Although Agarwood is precious, agarwood traders said some Thai  people had no idea what it looked like or how to earn money from this economic  wood… legally of course.

Archin said “When foreigners come here and see  agarwood, they know it and its quality. I want Thai people to know more about  this precious wood."

----------


## DrAndy

> in a few years I will be able to build my own ocean going cat


blacker than mine?

----------


## Missismiggins

> Tropicalife (Thailand)จําหน่ายปลีกส่ง  นํ้ามันหอมระเหยแท้*Agarwood in  high demand*
> 
> Although petroleum from the Middle East is in high demand  around the world people from the oil rich region are coming to Thailand to find  a particular kind of oil in the eastern province of Rayong. We have more details  in this report from Thai News Agency.
> 
> High quality agarwood, which is  black and full of oil, can fetch high prices of up to tens of thousands of baht.  Agarwood producers in the eastern province of Rayong have more than 500 members  from all over the country. They work together to produce agarwood from selecting  agarwood species to processing the wood.
> 
> Every piece of agarwood is  valuable as wood bits and chips can be used to make aromatic incense sticks,  which cost 800 baht per kilogramme.
> 
> White parts of the wood scraps can  also be distilled to make aromatic essential oil, which can be sold at more than  10,000 baht for 11 grammes.
> ...



thanks for that!

that is very interesting. (after reading your posts, I "believe" not 100% sure, that we have one of these trees already growing, is it called Mai Hom?) as in a perfume tree, or nice smelling?

Apologise for my ignorance in the Thai language, but that is what they call it where I am, it may not be argarwood at all, but your description sounds like this tree we have...it grows really slow, and looks like it did 3 years back..

----------


## Stinky

> Originally Posted by Sdigit
> 
> in a few years I will be able to build my own ocean going cat
> 
> 
> blacker than mine?


Than your what, your heart

----------


## Gipsy

Does your "Mai Hom" tree look like this? (Leaf and stem wise)




"Mai Hom" is Aquilaria  crassna. Family of Aquilaria malaccensis, known in Thailand as "Mai Kritsana" (ไม้กฤษณา). Aquilaria  crassna can also be infected and turn into the precious agar wood. Especially if you have screws in diameter 1.27 cm., that is...  :Smile: 

MECHANICAL METHODS TO STIMULATE ALOES WOOD FORMATION IN AQUILARIA CRASSNA PIERRE EX H.LEC. (KRITSANA) TREES

CONSERVATION AND USE OF Aquilaria crassna IN VIETNAM: A CASE STUDY

Enfleurage - Agarwood: Is it endangered?

----------


## Missismiggins

> Does your "Mai Hom" tree look like this? (Leaf and stem wise)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Mai Hom" is Aquilaria  crassna. Family of Aquilaria malaccensis, known in Thailand as "Mai Kritsana" (ไม้กฤษณา). Aquilaria  crassna can also be infected and turn into the precious agar wood. Especially if you have screws in diameter 1.27 cm., that is... 
> 
> MECHANICAL METHODS TO STIMULATE ALOES WOOD FORMATION IN AQUILARIA CRASSNA PIERRE EX H.LEC. (KRITSANA) TREES
> 
> ...


Sadly it does not look like that, it is about 3 feet tall and looks sick, it bares no fruit, in fact it is lucky it is still alive, as no one seems to give a rats arse about it.

You are losing me a bit, I will go have a read of the links you sent, thanks! give me a day or two! appreciate the info!

----------


## Gipsy

> it is about 3 feet tall and looks sick


When young, they need a lot of shadow. Plant a banana next to it to give it a few seasons the 'filtered light' it needs, then cut the banana. They also like the extra water a banana needs to look happy.

----------


## luibkk

> I'm still learning mate, it takes years to gain all the knowlage and skills needed but it's somint I always wanted to learn so I started learning 2 years ago, good fun and in a few years I will be able to build my own ocean going cat, which is the end goal for me


Well, that's interesting as I plan to do the same when I'll retire in 3 years. I am thinking about a Wharram design, Tiki 26  or 30, but haven't decided yet. What about you? Starting to build in the near future?

----------


## Missismiggins

> Originally Posted by Missismiggins
> 
> it is about 3 feet tall and looks sick
> 
> 
> When young, they need a lot of shadow. Plant a banana next to it to give it a few seasons the 'filtered light' it needs, then cut the banana. They also like the extra water a banana needs to look happy.



Well bugger me! what a stroke of luck!
I was about to have a go at my wife for planting it in the shade of a crop of banana trees....now I will keep my mouth shut!

(It is about 6 feet tall now...but looks nothing like the photo with the fruits, mine really does look pretty sick...I think it may have AIDS)

----------


## blackgang

> At the moment I'm building a few frames for a 30ft mono, more of a repair job.


So, you must be a boat builder,, you seem to know that Boats have *FRAMES*,,, Cows have *RIBS.*

----------


## SiamRick

I actually sat here and read about teak trees. And agarwood.  Fascinating stuff.  Who knew?!?! This gives me ideas for the future after I move to LOS later this year. Thanks for the education, guys.

----------


## genghis61

https://teakdoor.com/classifieds-help...ble-kayak.html (Beautiful Wooden 20 ft Double Kayak For Sale(SOLD))

off your thread topic, but two of you were discussing homebuilt kayaks earlier, this one Thai-built but unsure of the timber involved.

----------


## Missismiggins

> I actually sat here and read about teak trees. And agarwood.  Fascinating stuff.  Who knew?!?! This gives me ideas for the future after I move to LOS later this year. Thanks for the education, guys.



Don't ever ever think you are going to make any money GROWING ANYTHING here, it is a fools paradise!

Believe me, everyone in the North is a farmer....see how many are driving around in a Benz or a BMW?

Never never never will you make any money, let alone enough to provide an income from any type of farming here.

Yes, there may be the odd "Lucky Bastard" but if that is your plan for your future here, you need a serious rethink! My plans were knocked well on the head about 6 years ago, when the Lam Yai Crop" (that was going to "SECURE" my future) (I never forget the cackle of the old witch of a Mother in Law as she proffessed my worries were over...HE HE HE.....she croaked....now you stay Thailand for ever...big money")   yielded 12000 Baht, and 4000 of that was paid to labour....don't kid yourself like I did, it isn't going to happen! Despite what these idiots keep telling you!

Take the cost of electric, the fertiliser, the petrol for cutting the grass, the weedkiller, by the time you come to sell your precious crops at 8-12 baht a kilo, you will be lucky to break even!

The Thais are stuck in the past...in the days when Lam yai got 60 Baht/Kilo, when Diesel was 8 Baht a litre...it's all arse over tit!

Lam Yai is 8 baht a kilo and Diesel is clocking on 30 baht a litre!

----------


## SiamRick

^^^^Thanks for the warning note. I was thinking more of a hobby, certainly not an income source. I happen to like trees. In fact, just to show you I'm not crazy or a fool, from what I've read and heard, I can't imagine any farang making money in Thailand. What? Maybe 1-5 per cent of farang engaged in any production or industrial activity making money? I do know Dutch and English fellows separately who do but they get subcontracts on major infrastructure projects.  A farang would have extra hurdles in growing any enterprise, as I'm sure you know. I don't know whether it's because the Thais know they'll get blown out of the water if a there's a farang competitor or they just think of him as an ATM. I'd probably be safe in saying it's both.

Thanks, Mississmiggins.

----------


## Missismiggins

> ^^^^Thanks for the warning note. I was thinking more of a hobby, certainly not an income source. I happen to like trees. In fact, just to show you I'm not crazy or a fool, from what I've read and heard, I can't imagine any farang making money in Thailand. What? Maybe 1-5 per cent of farang engaged in any production or industrial activity making money? I do know Dutch and English fellows separately who do but they get subcontracts on major infrastructure projects.  A farang would have extra hurdles in growing any enterprise, as I'm sure you know. I don't know whether it's because the Thais know they'll get blown out of the water if a there's a farang competitor or they just think of him as an ATM. I'd probably be safe in saying it's both.
> 
> Thanks, Mississmiggins.


If you end up growing stuff for the love of growing, then good luck to you!

You will find the problem here is how to stop things growing (weeds etc.) Trees and plants seem to thrive here, unlike the UK, the only problem is, getting any cash for what you grow!

As a hobby, you will have years of fun.

Good luck!

----------


## Old Monkey

> Originally Posted by Sdigit
> 
> 
> I'm still learning mate, it takes years to gain all the knowlage and skills needed but it's somint I always wanted to learn so I started learning 2 years ago, good fun and in a few years I will be able to build my own ocean going cat, which is the end goal for me 
> 
> 
> Well, that's interesting as I plan to do the same when I'll retire in 3 years. I am thinking about a Wharram design, Tiki 26  or 30, but haven't decided yet. What about you? Starting to build in the near future?


In 75, I built a Wharram 26 that I extended to make her a 30'. WEST technic, purchased the plans and the sails, plus very little equipment, sailed South Florida and Bahamas 18 months. Found memories. No motor, cruising. Was sorry to find out that almost no women do sail!
I encourage you to do it. The plans are easy to follow, you have a full size pattern for each piece of wood or metal. It's like sewing a pair of pants. Plywood 0,25", lots of epoxy, a ventilated place, is all you need.

----------

