#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > The Family Room >  >  Educating a child from birth to be bi-lingual

## 9999

Thought some of you guys who have raised kids and made families over here can help me out on this one.

In a few months the missus will be popping out a baby girl.

We plan to eventually settle in Australia and maintain close connections to Thailand and visit frequently.

From the little I've read, it should be English only with me and Thai only with Mum. Also watching TV or listening to music with Mum alone should be in Thai and anything together or with me should be in English.

Just thinking about the first stages here. I know a child starts to learn language as soon as they're born and want to get it right from the starts. Any tips from personal experience would be most appreciated.

The other approach would be to use English only with both parents, and just pick up Thai from the world around her. But then she'll pick up bad habits from Mum and won't end up with a cool Aussie accent.  :Smile:

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## Takeovers

One point to remember. 

Developing two languages in parallel takes longer on average, so don't worry if she does not speak when you think she should. It will come with time but processing two languages can take longer.

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## natalie8

Interesting points. AO would be a good one to chime in.

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## sabaii sabaii

There was someone on here who had trouble with their kid stuttering, he thought it was because the child was learning two languages

If you are going to settle in Aus, just teach her English.

Let her learn Thai when she gets older, if she wants

Congratulations by the way

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## Neo

Don't force it, remember kids take a good 12 to 18 months to get to grips with the basic patterns of a single language, the kid will pick up on whichever language she finds easiest first, and by using both languages in their usual environments, english with you, thai with mum, will learn the tonal nuances of both languages and be primed for when she hits the super inquisitive language learning period from 30 months on. If learning is a game and praise is the reward, she will do well at both languages.

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## Mid

> If learning is a game and praise is the reward, she will do well


There it is  :Smile:

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## BigRed

It will happen whatever you plan to some extent. My 6 yr old has lived in the UK all her life and the wife normally speaks English but with Thai TV via the internet and the wife speaking to friends she can understand Thai although she rarely speaks it. She was a late developer but is now known as a chatterbox at school.

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## bobo746

Won't be a problem mate brought my daughter back here when she was 4 spoke mostly talalog in the PI except when talking to me, in oz she had to speak  english at school and with friends etc.and a bit of tagalog with her mum. She's 24 now and still speaks fluent tagalog and speaks english with a broad aussie accent.
When we are back in the PI her family there says she speaks tagalog with an aussie accent so it's all good.

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## withnallstoke

Educating kids from birth to be bi-lingual is a very bold move, and i wish you well.
Buying both boys and girls clothes could prove to be very expensive, but at least when they are adults they will be able to make a choice based on informed opinion.

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## rickschoppers

My son will soon be 1 year old and he has been mostly around his Thai Mom and relatives, so he will learn Thai as a first language. I do want him to learn English and will help him with that along with him watching English cartoons and TV. The wife is trying to help with his English, but rather she leave that up to me and the little one. There is a good chance he may spend some time in the States and will pick up English quicker than the current learning curve. 
Bottom line is that he will eventually be bilingual and time is not a factor. I am not a teacher, but would think your environment will dictate which is a first language and which is a second. My hope is that he will also learn Chinese, but that remains to be seen. A couple of good schools are trilingual in Udon which would be my choice. As has been mentioned, don't rush it and it will happen as long as the right exposure to each language occurs.

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## good2bhappy

Congratulations
bet she will be a beauty

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## bobo746

^^Mate kids are like sponges when they are young you will be suprised how easy they pick up languages.

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## Bettyboo

The answer to the op from a cognitive psycholinguistic side is: nobody really knows...  :Smile:  

But, as said above, it's natural. After six or so, neurons in the brain which may be used for language start to die out if they are not used, and it is harder to learn new language skills thereafter. So, don't leave it too late, but let it be natural... Even if they learn Thai at first, they can pick up English quickly and easily when they are 3 or so; they'll probably overtake their Thai in some areas by the time they are 5, especially with regard to maths or any reading skills; Thai isn't very easy to learn in these areas whereas English seems as easy as most languages...

Good luck.

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## somtamslap

My 2 year old is picking up both fairly quickly although sentences are only coming in Thai..but she's already managed to differentiate between mum and dad's lingo - she'll ask me for her 'shoes' but ask her mum for her 'tau', ask me to 'open' something and ask mum to 'bpert' something.
I've soley spoken to both my daughters in English since their births but am begginning to become more inclined to give them 100 per cent exposure to Thai as this is where they will do their intial growing up - but everything seems to click into place, even with pikey fucking parents who don'tgive two shits about their kids.

Congrats, 9999..

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## aging one

Okay nat, here is my two cents worth. I am raising twin daughters here. My way of helping them to be bi lingual and now tri lingual was this. From birth they spoke only English. Even the goo goo and gah gah's were in English. No Thai at all was used except for what they heard as background noise.
The wife used English as did the nanny we had. 

The nanny had some experience in English but we made up laminated sheets for all things of the day in English with the Thai translations. Eating, Bathing, Nature, Bike, Toys, Books, Eating, all was done in English until the age of 5 when they were placed in Thai Pratom 1.  They could not understand a word for a bit but within a few months were speaking Thai. With in a year they could read and write it as well. 

So they went through pratom in a Thai environment. It was a small school that was more into making good humans than mindless clones, so we were lucky there.

They then went two years to a government EP program school where they learned English, Literature, Science, Math, and IT in English. The curriculum was great through a company called BFITS. All new McGraw Hill texts, and a good daily syllabus and curriculum.  But we noticed the Thai side was so weak. During this time they had also progressed through basic Mandarin.,

They were invited to test for an academic scholarship by the Harrow school here, and were granted the scholarship. All we could get 50% each as they are twins. They do not have to take the Thai language component as they score too high already.

People who have met them that speak English do hear a strong American accent, and the Thai;s hear a strong Central Thai accent. 

But the bottom line is today I take them and pay the final fees to enter the Harrow School in August. While they wait they study intensive Mandarin as that will be one of the courses they test for at pgsce, to go to the 6th form.

I feel very lucky to have two kids bilingual and very close to trilingual these days. Nat has known them since they were about 4 and watched the process, last saw her over dinner a couple of months ago. Marmers knows them from a younger age, before he moved up into deep Isaan. 

They just came back from a month in the states and kept a killer blog in English of all they did and experienced. If anybody would like to see it just pm me. Or for further information.


One warning your inlaws will hate you until the kids start to speak Thai, but when they do they change from hate to envy very very quickly.

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## Latindancer

I observed a friend in Australia bring up 2 daughters. He's married to a Taiwanese lady and he used English; she used Mandarin.
I had read that the children would mix up the two languages almost till school age, and that was in fact what happened. Now they still live in Oz but can't read or write Mandarin, but speak it very well.
Don't worry if your kids can't separate the languages till 5 yrs old.

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## reinvented

mines 3
we speak to her in english
wife speaks to her in thai sometimes 
she's also learning chinese
her thai is stronger as she uses it more
but here english whilst not perfect is 99% and she prefers to use it at home

if your missus speaks english fluently have her speak english to her as she will be exposed to plenty of Thai anyway
mines coming along well in chinese also but its a distanat 3rd

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## Takeovers

> speaks english with a broad aussie accent.


My heartfelt condolence.  :Smile:

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## bobo746

^ Thanks mate  :Smile:  She turned out great pretty & smart even with me for an old man.

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## Bung

Whatever you do don't speak Thaiglish to her, you will have a hell of a time getting her out of that.

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## Marmite the Dog

> he other approach would be to use English only with both parents, and just pick up Thai from the world around her. But then she'll pick up bad habits from Mum and won't end up with a cool Aussie accent.


English, English, English!
Despite Thai being perfect for conversing with a toddler.




> One warning your inlaws will hate you until the kids start to speak Thai, but when they do they change from hate to envy very very quickly.


Fuck 'em.

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## superman

My child is more conversant in English than she is Thai. This is because we only speak English in the house, including my wife. 
If she's sitting watching TV and we've accidentally left the language in Thai, she will come and get us to switch it to English. She does speak Thai but only at school. She's 3 & a half.

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## good2bhappy

> Whatever you do don't speak Thaiglish to her


That will knock out half the TEFLers then

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## 9999

Thanks for all the replies, and valuable information. Good to know I'm on the right track. I would really like it, if she's totally bi-lingual in Thai and English by 8 or so, to go and learn Mandarin. This would open a lot of doors for her future.

On the English only line, I see the merits, main thing is picking up Tinglish from Mum which I've been trying to beat of of her for the last 2 years. Also the point above - being fluent in several languages can only be benificial, as useless as Thai may be on the world stage.

Thanks again everyone and greens on the way when I got some more ammo  :Smile:

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## 9999

Just remembering a few occasions in the shopping malls etc, where I've seen farangs blokes speaking pidgin Thai with their young kids. Up to them how they raise their kids but personally I definitely don't think this is the way to go in terms of providing a bright future for your child.

I've also seen a bit of Farang blokes speaking pidgin / Tinglish with their kids. I also disagree with this. AFAIK speaking correct English with a child is the only way to go. In fact I try my best to speak correct English with all Thais when using English, but often resort to tinglish coz it's easier for both parties. But in these cases I'm not concerned about the future lingual well being of the person I'm speaking with.

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## superman

> I would really like it, if she's totally bi-lingual in Thai and English by 8


No problem.

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## Marmite the Dog

> I've seen farangs blokes speaking pidgin Thai with their young kids. Up to them how they raise their kids but personally I definitely don't think this is the way to go in terms of providing a bright future for your child.
> 
> I've also seen a bit of Farang blokes speaking pidgin / Tinglish with their kids. I also disagree with this.


So do I, but it's bloody difficult when your kid gets Thai at school, on the TV and from mum and only gets English from one parent for a couple of hours a day.

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## 9999

^ Not so bad if they're speaking back in Tinglish I suppose, but surely a father can make himself understood using correct English sentences, which would improve the child's English to some degree right? But yeah I haven't been there yet so don't really know.

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## superman

> but it's bloody difficult when your kid gets Thai at school, on the TV and from mum and only gets English from one parent for a couple of hours a day.


That's why you have house rules. Only English is spoken in the house and only English spoken programs on the TV.

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## fiddler

I always speak English with my son, and try to buy mostly English movies for him.
My wife speaks Thai with him 95% of the time,  and he does watch some Thai movies. 
We live in a Thai neighborhood.
Now that he is 5, he speaks excellent Thai and English. 
Of course he's smarter than most kids.

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## Neo

> So they went through pratom in a Thai environment. It was a small school that was more into making good humans than mindless clones, so we were lucky there.
> 
> They then went two years to a government EP program school where they learned English, Literature, Science, Math, and IT in English. The curriculum was great through a company called BFITS. All new McGraw Hill texts, and a good daily syllabus and curriculum.  But we noticed the Thai side was so weak. During this time they had also progressed through basic Mandarin.,
> 
> They were invited to test for an academic scholarship by the Harrow school here, and were granted the scholarship. All we could get 50% each as they are twins. They do not have to take the Thai language component as they score too high already.
> 
> People who have met them that speak English do hear a strong American accent, and the Thai;s hear a strong Central Thai accent. 
> 
> But the bottom line is today I take them and pay the final fees to enter the Harrow School in August. While they wait they study intensive Mandarin as that will be one of the courses they test for at pgsce, to go to the 6th form.


It would seem you have a long term plan for their education, which is admirable. 
Do you envision them attending university in Thailand or abroad?

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## 9999

> only English spoken programs on the TV.


Maybe Engish TV but Thai with Mum and other Thais (to achieve bi-lingualality)?

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## Umbuku

My son grew up in Thailand until 5 years of age with both languages at home and a bilingual program kindergarten. After moving him to Australia to live the teachers at his school recommended him for language assistance which he did for two years and now no longer needs. He is 8 years old now and refuses to speak Thai though he still understands it quite well. We are planning to move to a larger house soon and get some Thai students to live with us. One of the rent conditions will be assisting my son to learn to read, write and speak Thai.

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## Looper

GF's daughter was born in Aussie but speaks Chinese fluently (from her mum). Her English is noticeably less developed than her pre-school pals but I think once she gets to school she will be fluent in strine within a year.

Khmer ex-GF's daughter was born and brought up in PP and is now 2 and can talk a little English (ex-GF and her Khmer hubby speak only English to her). The maids speah Khmer to her and she is picking that up too.

I think kids pick up 2 languages easily until age 3 or 4 as long as it comes from distinct teachers and isn't mixed, and after that age it will become difficult so don't wait until she is older to teach her Thai.

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## 9999

^ I suppose that would mean the TV too. It would have to be in English all the time, even with Mum. Sweet. No more lakorns - great excuse.

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## aging one

> It would seem you have a long term plan for their education, which is admirable. Do you envision them attending university in Thailand or abroad?


They were back in America this summer touring by themselves. It was their own idea to be taken to the admissions office at Stanford, UC Berkeley, Santa Cruz, and USF. They have been met by the officials, names taken, new school attending and the process has started.

They also know they will need scholarships as they have now to attend these universities. But at the same time I am a graduate of the Cal state university system, and it would be easy to slide them into one of those universities  as well. Have not ruled out anywhere that would offer a good scholarship.  The one thing I have going is they love to learn and study.

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## good2bhappy

^ admirable

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## good2bhappy

As a child I spoke Tamil and English.
After moving back to England and not having been exposed to Tamil I have lost nearly all I knew, although I recognise the language and still know a few words.
                          Maintain exposure to both languages.

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## robuzo

One thing I would add is, read to your child, a lot. Get them interested in books at a young age, and maintain that interest. Reading is the only way to build a substantial vocabulary. 

As a translator I have worked with dozens of people from "bilingual" backgrounds over the years, and more often than not what it turns out to mean is someone who appears to have native ability in two languages because their speech is accent-free, when in reality it is closer to the truth to say they have no native language, in other words that they are not sufficiently grounded in either tongue. This often doesn't become apparent until one checks their writing.

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## 9999

> As a child I spoke Tamil and English.
> After moving back to England and not having been exposed to Tamil I have lost nearly all I knew, although I recognise the language and still know a few words.
>                           Maintain exposure to both languages.


My mother adopted 2 children from Ethiopia after her natural children were all grown up. One was 6 and the other 3 when they came to Australia and after 5 years had almost completely forgotton their native Amharic language (whilst picking up the English language amazingly fast). 8 years later they are attending Amharic classes to try hold onto their Ethiopian roots. They've picked it back up in a flash. They've both been back to visit relatives and old friends of their deceased parents, and able once again to speak their native tongue with the natives.

They younger girl speak English with a cute Aussie twang, while the older boy has a very slight African sounding voice and noticeably Australian accent.

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## Pol the Pot

The set up for speech starts developing while still in the womb.

If you and your wife speak your respective languages she won't have a problem. But speak correctly. Adding a third or fourth language while young is no problem either.

Children here grow up with Khmer and a Chinese dialect or two and start learning English and Mandarin in kindergarten. No problems.

If your child doesn't respond to you in your language there's nothing to worry about either, it's being lazy that's all.

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## BigBaBoo

:Smile:  Your first child I take it?
Don't worry about "teaching" her to be bi-lingual. "Nature" has already thought of that in 100,000 years or so of evolution.
Just speak to her naturally in English and let your wife use Thai. She will learn both, and probably will learn to use both. She will speak Thai to mom, and English to dad.
When she reaches the stage where she starts learning language, just hearing Thai will make her respond in Thai, and hearing English wil make her respond in English. The human brain is "pre-programmed" that way by those 100K years of evolution.
 :Smile:

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## rawlins

I live in Thailand and have a 2 year old girl who has just started pre-kindergarten. Both Mum and I speak English to her and she is responding back in English. Other family members that don't speak English are speaking Thai with her. Sometime she says both langauges in the same short sentence - 'come mai?'

I hope that she will learn English as her primary language and Thai after that. Her Mums English pronounciation isn't great and I am having to teach her Mum the correct way to say things.

One thing I don't want is her picking up too much Isaan dialect which is where the out-laws are from. No point learning that as we never intend living up that way.

The kindergarten school she has started has a program which is 70% English and 30% Thai so I will just have to see how she develops.

I would like her to learn Mandarin at a later stage which should open up more opportunities in the future.

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## robuzo

This is something I heard about a couple of years ago which might be of interest here:
Babies can tell apart different languages with visual cues alone : Not Exactly Rocket Science
Most of us could easily distinguish between spoken English and French. But could you tell the difference between an English and a French speaker just by looking at the movements of their lips? It seems like a difficult task. But surprising new evidence suggest that babies can meet this challenge at just a few months of age

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## superman

My daughter speaks Thai, even though the local dialect is Lao. My wife speaks Lao but reverts to Thai they're in Thai company. The thing my missus hates is that the locals try to teach our daughter Lao and find it funny in doing so.

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## Neo

> If your child doesn't respond to you in your language there's nothing to worry about either, it's being lazy that's all.


As an aside. 

Years ago I lived in Finland for a while, which has one of the hardest languages to learn, difficult grammatical concepts, very long compound words and no tonal range.. There were (probably still are) a lot of children that were 2-3 years old and still only had very basic language skills. There were fears about enviromental or genetic factors, but after years of studies it turned out that they just couldn't uinderstand the language. Absolutely true. A friend who was English with a Finnish wife had this problem with his youngest boy, who had no problem at all with English.

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## rickschoppers

> I live in Thailand and have a 2 year old girl who has just started pre-kindergarten. Both Mum and I speak English to her and she is responding back in English. Other family members that don't speak English are speaking Thai with her. Sometime she says both langauges in the same short sentence - 'come mai?'
> 
> I hope that she will learn English as her primary language and Thai after that. Her Mums English pronounciation isn't great and I am having to teach her Mum the correct way to say things.
> 
> One thing I don't want is her picking up too much Isaan dialect which is where the out-laws are from. No point learning that as we never intend living up that way.
> 
> The kindergarten school she has started has a program which is 70% English and 30% Thai so I will just have to see how she develops.
> 
> I would like her to learn Mandarin at a later stage which should open up more opportunities in the future.


Interesting comment about the Isaan dialect. I think the out-laws come from everywhere, not just northeast Thailand. My son will be 1 soon and his uncle teaches him the most Thai and uses Bangkok Thai. It is unfortunate there is such a stigma against any local dialect. The same rationale that says all women from Isaan are bar girls. If you are serious, I would put you in this same pathetic category of profiling people on how they talk and what part of the country they come from.

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## superman

> It is unfortunate there is such a stigma against any local dialect. The same rationale that says all women from Isaan are bar girls. If you are serious, I would put you in this same pathetic category of profiling people on how they talk and what part of the country they come from.


That stigma comes from within the Thais, not just us westerners. A 50/50 child will automatically be seen as being the result of bar-girl and a farang. The mother will be looked down up for that, even though she's never been a bar-girl. 
Isaan people when visiting Bangkok, for instance, their dialect will be seen as defining them as the stupid village people from up north.
It's not just us that stereotype people.  :Smile:

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## rickschoppers

That's my point. The ignorance comes from those who see this difference as inferior. As a westerner, I do not have the same generalizations that the Thais do and you should not either. If you count yourself in that group or are worried about what other people think, then you are ignorant.

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## rawlins

> Interesting comment about the Isaan dialect. I think the out-laws come from everywhere, not just northeast Thailand. My son will be 1 soon and his uncle teaches him the most Thai and uses Bangkok Thai. It is unfortunate there is such a stigma against any local dialect. The same rationale that says all women from Isaan are bar girls. If you are serious, I would put you in this same pathetic category of profiling people on how they talk and what part of the country they come from.


I just don't see the point in her learning the Isaan / Lao language as it will provide no use to her in later life... Also it is just another language that will add to her confusion when trying to get the grasps of English and Thai... Isaan / Lao is not very useful outside that region and we don't intend staying in that region. I may be in a 'pathetic category' for thinking like this but if she learns a third language after English and Thai then I would rather it was something useful like Mandarin.

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## rickschoppers

^^
Now you are making more sense than calling Thais from Isaan outlaws or the women bargirls. I can agree with this take on not having her learn another dialect. Maybe you are not pathetic after all.

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## rawlins

> ^^
> Now you are making more sense than calling Thais from Isaan outlaws or the women bargirls. I can agree with this take on not having her learn another dialect. Maybe you are not pathetic after all.


I call my girlfriends family the 'out-laws' and would call them that wherever they came from - just happens they come from Isaan... ... It seems a more appropriate term to use than 'in-laws'...

I also call them the 'forragers' because that is what they do most days instaed of shopping for food... 

Both are terms of endearment but they might not think that if they knew and understood....

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## Bettyboo

> I've also seen a bit of Farang blokes speaking pidgin / Tinglish with their kids. I also disagree with this. AFAIK speaking *correct English* with a child is the only way to go.


Yes and no, we change the way we speak to children so that they can learn; listen to how a mother speaks to a young child, it is not 'correct English' that's for sure... it's normal, we change our genre according to who we are speaking to and why; you wouldn't talk to a child in BBC English, or, if you did, then you wouldn't be helping that child to learn; learning is not linear with respect to vocabulary or grammar; children will learn some words/grammar then backtrack for a while before incorporating the learnt grammar/vocab into all their speaking.

'Babytalk' is normal and vital for the child's learning.

Thinglish is just crap...  :Smile:

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## 9999

> A 50/50 child will automatically be seen as being the result of bar-girl and a farang.


Really? I think that's complete bollocks. Thais can usually sniff out a bar gir or ex bg from a mile away. My missus is more educated than 90% of the population and this shows in the way she conducts herself; Thais know. Obviously ignorant farangs don't. Get yer arse out of the gutter for a few minutes mate.

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## 9999

> Yes and no, we change the way we speak to children so that they can learn; listen to how a mother speaks to a young child, it is not 'correct English' that's for sure... it's normal, we change our genre according to who we are speaking to and why; you wouldn't talk to a child in BBC English, or, if you did, then you wouldn't be helping that child to learn; learning is not linear with respect to vocabulary or grammar; children will learn some words/grammar then backtrack for a while before incorporating the learnt grammar/vocab into all their speaking.  'Babytalk' is normal and vital for the child's learning.  Thinglish is just crap...


Interesting and thought provoking post BB, cheers. I haven't really thought about 'baby talk'. Hard to see myself saying "goo goo gaga daddy where mummy go?" haha  :Smile:

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## superman

> Really? I think that's complete bollocks. Thais can usually sniff out a bar gir or ex bg from a mile away. My missus is more educated than 90% of the population and this shows in the way she conducts herself; Thais know. Obviously ignorant farangs don't. Get yer arse out of the gutter for a few minutes mate.__________________


Read my post 9999. 'A 50/50 child will automatically be seen as being the result of a bar-girl and a farang'. I didn't mention sniffing out a bar-girl. I was refering to how a Thai stereotypes when a 50/50 child is seen without the mother. Get your head out your arse you daft cnut. Mate.

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## 9999

^ You;re saying any 'luk kreung' child will automatically  be branded the child of a whore. It's bullshit. This is how Thais think? And in turn, you are saying Thais think mothers of luk kreungs are auto-whores. If you want daftness go read the majority of other TD threads and your own posts. Mate.

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## Pol the Pot

I'm not so sure about that either.

The ones I've met didn't think so, the baby always showed up with the mother.

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## robuzo

> Originally Posted by superman
> 
> A 50/50 child will automatically be seen as being the result of bar-girl and a farang.
> 
> 
> Really? I think that's complete bollocks. Thais can usually sniff out a bar gir or ex bg from a mile away. My missus is more educated than 90% of the population and this shows in the way she conducts herself; Thais know. Obviously ignorant farangs don't. Get yer arse out of the gutter for a few minutes mate.


I think you might be giving "Thais" a bit too much credit there, 9999. There's a fine old pan-Asian tradition of looking askance at women who take up with foreigners, on top of which people here are going to weigh factors such as skin tone and facial features (does the woman look Khmer or Lao?) as much as they do demeanor in jumping to conclusions about how the loving couple met. 

More to the point of this thread, I hope, in a conformist society such as this one kids who are "different," such as look kreung, may face prejudice or bullying/teasing, especially once their age reaches double digits (little kids don't seem to notice). In Japan, which has much the same bi-polar attitude toward half (or "double" as is popular in some quarters) people, I have seen look kreung go to great lengths to play down their difference from others, including pretending in school that their English ability is not superior or refusing to speak English with the foreign parent in public. Not sure if that is going to turn out to be a problem here- my son's mom insists it will if he stays in Thai school, whereas one thing I noticed in Japan is that the more assertive the kid the less of a problem this is, and if my kid were any more assertive he'd have to be shackled. Come to think of it, I was a bit taken aback when some roughly 12-year-old Sino-Thai lard-asses in blue school uniforms started mocking my son speaking English to me at the playground in Benjasiri Park yesterday, although they quickly desisted after I spoke to them- perhaps it was the awfulness of my Thai pronunciation scared them away. 

Not entirely germane to this discussion, perhaps, but I am curious if anyone has noticed a stigma attached to the English ability of look kreung in an otherwise all-Thai environment. This could vary according to location, and also may not be as big a problem here as in Japan because of the enormous pressure to learn English there due to the outsize role it plays in the school curriculum (which obviously is the reason everyone in Japan speaks English so well  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): ).

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## 9999

> Originally Posted by 9999
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by superman
> ...


Your post makes sense Robuzo though I don't think you give this Thai generation  (the woman is 29) enough credit. In her social circles she's certainly not looked down on, though admittedly there is a bit of the 'snagging a farang' in there. Certainly back in the village there's cheers to her for snagging their first farang (though there is one other Jappo). 

I think in modern Thai society look kreungs are accepted and do not automatically trigger the thought "whoredem" when they see a look kreung kid. Missus has asolutely no concern about  bullying or the like, but the kid will likely be educated in Australia anyway, where it's more likely, imo, to be an issue (bullying, racism etc).

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## 9999

> Originally Posted by 9999
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by superman
> ...


Your post makes sense Robuzo though I don't think you give this Thai generation  (the woman is 29) enough credit. In her social circles she's certainly not looked down on, though admittedly there is a bit of the 'snagging a farang' in there. Certainly back in the village there's cheers to her for snagging their first farang (though there is one other Jappo). 

I think in modern Thai society look kreungs are accepted and do not automatically trigger the thought "whoredem" when they see a look kreung kid. Missus has asolutely no concern about  bullying or the like, but the kid will likely be educated in Australia anyway, where it's more likely, imo, to be an issue (bullying, racism etc).

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## BigRed

My stepson came to England when he was 8 and didn't speak a word of English. The school classed him as special needs and assigned a teaching assistant to him for a few hours a week for 2 years. He sat in the same lessons as all the other children. After 2 years he was rated as just below average at English and has continued to improve since then.

I'm assuming that if he returns to Thailand as an adult he will have a massive advantage in finding jobs where English speaking is a requirement as he now speaks perfect English which I believe would be way above the standards of graduates. Does anyone else have experience of this?

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## aging one

> I'm assuming that if he returns to Thailand as an adult he will have a massive advantage in finding jobs where English speaking is a requirement as he now speaks perfect English which I believe would be way above the standards of graduates. Does anyone else have experience of this?


Yes his English would be better than most English major graduates, but at the same time does he still read and write and speak Thai at an appropriate level for his age?  Being bilingual and fluent is the key in the higher paying Thai job market.

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## Neo

> Interesting and thought provoking post BB, cheers. I haven't really thought about 'baby talk'. Hard to see myself saying "goo goo gaga daddy where mummy go?" haha


A lot of information in language comes from tonal structure. Baby talk is a good way of priming them and helping the language area of the brain develop, and also a good way of bonding with you.

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## 9999

^ Cheers to you too Neo. My view on baby talk has changed after self-education prompted by comments in this thread. Baby talk yes. Tinglish NO.

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## aging one

> A lot of information in language comes from tonal structure. Baby talk is a good way of priming them and helping the language area of the brain develop, and also a good way of bonding with you.


Baby talk in English!!!  Yes you bet.  Daddy waddy loves baby waby, and that kind of stuff to here the vowels and the sounds created by different voice lip and air usages.  Describe everything you see as you drive, walk, stroll, everything. Include the little one in the conversations.  

Feed the kid at the dinner table nightly and use English as well. None if this running around in the street with a bowl of rice being spoon fed.

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## 9999

^ Sage advice AO. Cheers.

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## sabaii sabaii

Patience, understanding, fun and love

Enjoy it

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## CaptainNemo

I've had a long interest in languages, so multilingualism a thing I'm quite keen on.
I keep nagging my puying to talk to them in Thai, and occasionally she does; but I end up having to teach them it, which is daft.
The eldest can speak more French than Thai, which isn't ideal.

I reckon music is a good way to go... learning songs was part of learning French at school, and made it more interesting than, say, Latin. Similarly, it was a love of music that drew me into learning Portuguese.

I recently got my two eldest boys instruments, in the hope they'll get into it as their antecedents have done, and from there, maybe that and mixing with cousins who can't speak English, the seed might be sown.

the youngest one has grabbed the electric guitar, and the eldest has rather quickly got into this thing - it's effing mint (got it on a "shop-soiled" discount):




 <-blatent advert really, but it shows stuff.

it was meant to work out the other way round, but, this is their interest leading it; not me imposing it, and think that's the best way to go when it comes to learning anything... let them try things out and see what they enjoy the most, be it "things" or "techniques" - fun is everything.

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## CaptainNemo

> There's a fine old pan-Asian tradition of looking askance at women who take up with foreigners


That's 'cos so many of them want to be european... you only have to look at their tv and advertising (not to mention excessive hair-dying and eyelid ops in Japan).

It's a very thucked up legacy of Chinese culture of the lighter your skin the more indoors and thus higher paying or more sophisticated work you do, that goes back to the first emporer and beyond perhaps.

it's odd... so many of them envy the good-looking eurasian sprogs, but when faced with an euro-immigrant ethnic group in their midst, the cultural difference outweighs that phenotype-envy - ask any Brazilian-Japanese in Japan, never mind the euro working classes in Thailand.

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## swanks

> One point to remember. 
> 
> Developing two languages in parallel takes longer on average, so don't worry if she does not speak when you think she should. It will come with time but processing two languages can take longer.


I'm not sure on that Takeovers. My lad speaks Thai with his mum and English with me . He is taught in both at school and they teach him Chinese as well.
I had the same worry but the school head assured me that at an early age kids find no difficulty and think and talk in more than one language if they know them.
He also speaks "THinglish' sometimes and mixes the two together.
I don't speak to him in Thai though as I learned my little bit in bars and maybe I use bad words? :Smile:  His mum speaks central though and maybe it's best he learn to speak the same.

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## swanks

> That's my point. The ignorance comes from those who see this difference as inferior. As a westerner, I do not have the same generalizations that the Thais do and you should not either. If you count yourself in that group or are worried about what other people think, then you are ignorant.


Maybe to quote -
"Our children are the living arrows sent into the world from the living bow of our body . We loose them with care but can never change the winds of destiny"

PC is all well and good but I won't put my lad at a disadvantage to serve that false master! He gets my best shot and I speak 'good' English with him , his mom speaks good Thai! Thailand has a well defined class system and I know which end of the food chain I want him to be despite my own counsel house start!

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## Takeovers

> I'm not sure on that Takeovers. My lad speaks Thai with his mum and English with me . He is taught in both at school and they teach him Chinese as well.


A misunderstanding, I believe. I was talking about early development, the time until the first words and first full sentences are spoken. That may be delayed, after that it develops smoothly. And this delay cannot be quantified because the timing of early development is so different between different children.

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## swanks

> Originally Posted by swanks
> 
> I'm not sure on that Takeovers. My lad speaks Thai with his mum and English with me . He is taught in both at school and they teach him Chinese as well.
> 
> 
> A misunderstanding, I believe. I was talking about early development, the time until the first words and first full sentences are spoken. That may be delayed, after that it develops smoothly. And this delay cannot be quantified because the timing of early development is so different between different children.


Probably , knowing me, I get most things ass up!lol
You seem to know your stuff , to be honest this is all new to me as my ex couldn't have kids!

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## 9999

> the eldest has rather quickly got into this thing - it's effing mint (got it on a "shop-soiled" discount): YouTube - ‪HandSonic 10 (2: Playing The Basic Patterns)‬‏


That drum synth looks awesome. I've seen good fake drum kits but not that concept. Our kid will have music in it's blood from both sides. Maybe a 0st birthday present for our new daughter would be a good excuse to buy it as an educational aid so I can play it!

Due date is mid-October. Excited and ready.

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## CaptainNemo

don't forget she'll need a decent amplifier for the electric bongos, and a small desktop midi synth and small desktop mixer wouldn't hurt, and maybe a dedicated PC rigged up to a decent set of separates, I'm sure mummy will understand it's a crucial part of her development  :Wink:  

It's so addictive though, you might need it to wind down after bedtime. Plug the headphones in, and you're away...

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## 9999

> I'm sure mummy will understand it's a crucial part of her development


Hehe, yes, I'm sure she will. How much RAM would the dedicated PC need? We don't want Butters having another psychotic episode so better keep on the hush hush  :Smile:

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## Cujo

I haven't read this thread, but I'll relate my experience.
I have a 5 year old who is Fluent in mandarin, English and some Cantonese.
We live in China and my wifes first language is Cantonese. 
My wife and I communicate in Mandarin and his language of instruction at preschool, since the age of 3 has been Mandarin.
I have spoken only English to him, sung songs and talked to him in English since he was a tiny baby. I read to him every day (if possible) and expose him to as much English as possible by way of movies and cartoons. I bought DVDs (thomas the tank engine, sesame street etc) and basically just bombard him with English.
The only time he gets to use his English is with me or when we are socializing with expats, which isn't often.
He is quite good now at spoken English and I have been working on his reading and
writing slowly.
The best advice I could give you is to be his teacher and ONLY speak English to him and start early (and talk to him as much as possible).

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## 9999

^ Cheers Koojo your input is appreciated. Your experience as well as others in this thread have me quite confident that my soon to be born child will be bi-lingual quite easily as long as we do the right thing (ie me being her teacher as you stated).

Cheers again to all who contribute to this thread. This is the good thing about TD, a well of knowledge to draw from, posters that are always willing to give advice, but at the same time, this site is also fun and a lot of banter unlike other Thailand expat sites that generally seem to be quite anal and have much thicker posters.

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## CaptainNemo

> other Thailand expat sites that generally seem to be quite anal and have much thicker posters.


Where as TDers tend to be more vaginal, and have much thicker cocks.  :Smile:

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