#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Doing Things Legally >  >  Do you want Thai citizenship?

## Mr Earl

The procedure seems pretty straightforward.
1. With 3 years of tax receipts for yourself and your company you can apply for a Permanent Resident card.
2. After 5 years with the PR you can apply for Thai citizenship.

With citizenship you no longer need a Work Permit.
You can own land.
And if times get tough you can get work as a motorbike taxi driver.

This gives me a few years to learn to sing the national anthem. :Cool: 

For many years I thought it would be impossible. But it seems quite a few farang have gone through this process.

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## forreachingme

The problem migth be the grey zones, unfortunately they do not only have white and black...

I just received a feedback from BOI to own land and have foreign owned business in Thailand, there as well all seems so easy !

Anyway, good luck to the ones applying...

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## AntRobertson

> The procedure seems pretty straightforward


Famous last words.

I honestly can't see any benefit in real terms for getting Thai citizenship - at least not in my case.

I only know of one person who has and that was achieved via a complex process whereby his father-in-law adopted him.  Which also meant, of course, that his wife was therefore also his sister  :Very Happy:

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## sabang

I wouldn't mind getting Thai citizenship, but I thought the process was a fair bit harder than that.
Maybe one day- another passport & residency to add to the collection. Up till then, I'm just a guest.

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## DrB0b

There's a recent thread about it over on TV, started by somebody who just got citizenship. Looks similar to the PR process but a whole lot less expensive. Apparently about 10 foreigners a year succeed in the application.

Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application - Thailand Forum

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## everglaze

so if one gets thai citizenship and one has an income or retirement from another country is one required to pay tax?.

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## DrB0b

> The procedure seems pretty straightforward
> 			
> 		
> 
> Famous last words.
> 
> I honestly can't see any benefit in real terms for getting Thai citizenship - at least not in my case.
> 
> I only know of one person who has and that was achieved via a complex process whereby his father-in-law adopted him.  Which also meant, of course, that his wife was therefore also his sister


For me the big benefit would be being able to own property outright. Of course if your home country doesn't allow dual nationality then you'd probably be crazy to get Thai citizenship if you're a westerner. Might be worth it just to flash the ID card at them when they try to charge you the farang price at a park or a palace :Smile:

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## Marmite the Dog

I suppose I'd better start with a work permit and paying tax...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## NickA

^You can have my job then , I think I'm on my way out

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## Marmite the Dog

> You can have my job then , I think I'm on my way out


Tell us more...

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## JoGeAr

> so if one gets thai citizenship and one has an income or retirement from another country is one required to pay tax?.


The problem is, to get Thai citizenship, you have to revoke your own. Thais cannot hold dual nationality. I believe you have to revoke your citizenship at your embassy in Bangkok. No pension!! If you decide after a while (or even 50 years) that it was not such a good idea, it is very, very, very difficult to get your old citizenship back.

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## Mr Earl

> There's a recent thread about it over on TV, started by somebody who just got citizenship. Looks similar to the PR process but a whole lot less expensive. Apparently about 10 foreigners a year succeed in the application.
> 
> Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application - Thailand Forum


The problem with that thread is the OP has been very coy as to revealing his/her gender or nationality. But it is interesting nonetheless. I finally got the OP to reveal that they had their PR for 5 years prior to applying.

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## William

> Originally Posted by everglaze
> 
> 
> so if one gets thai citizenship and one has an income or retirement from another country is one required to pay tax?.
> 
> 
> The problem is, to get Thai citizenship, you have to revoke your own. Thais cannot hold dual nationality. I believe you have to revoke your citizenship at your embassy in Bangkok. No pension!! If you decide after a while (or even 50 years) that it was not such a good idea, it is very, very, very difficult to get your old citizenship back.


Hmmm, very interesting as we are having a somewhat good discussion on this topic elsehwere on this forum.  Do you happen to have any reference to cite for this?

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## Mr Earl

> Originally Posted by everglaze
> 
> 
> so if one gets thai citizenship and one has an income or retirement from another country is one required to pay tax?.
> 
> 
> The problem is, to get Thai citizenship, you have to revoke your own. Thais cannot hold dual nationality. I believe you have to revoke your citizenship at your embassy in Bangkok. No pension!! If you decide after a while (or even 50 years) that it was not such a good idea, it is very, very, very difficult to get your old citizenship back.


This is not true for most western countries and Thailand doesn't require you to renounce your birth nationality.

The only exception I found to this is Norway which doesn't allow for dual citizenship.

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## William

> so if one gets thai citizenship and one has an income or retirement from another country is one required to pay tax?.


The Revenue Code is very clear on this issue.  Anyone, regardless of whether or not they are Thai, who is a resident in Thailand for tax purposes (i.e., 180 days or more) is subject to income tax on their world-wide earnings; PROVIDED THAT, the earnings must be brought into Thailand in the same calendar year as they are earnt.

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## DrB0b

> Originally Posted by everglaze
> 
> 
> so if one gets thai citizenship and one has an income or retirement from another country is one required to pay tax?.
> 
> 
> The problem is, to get Thai citizenship, you have to revoke your own. Thais cannot hold dual nationality. I believe you have to revoke your citizenship at your embassy in Bangkok. No pension!! If you decide after a while (or even 50 years) that it was not such a good idea, it is very, very, very difficult to get your old citizenship back.


That's not strictly true. Many countries, my own for instance, don't accept that you can revoke your citizenship, no matter what I say to a foreign govt I will always be Irish,  As with many things in Thailand just tick the correct box on the document and you'll be alright, nobody will check and in the unlikely event that they do nobody will reply to their incomprehensible query in mangled English from an email address that doesn't work.

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## everglaze

> Originally Posted by *everglaze*  (Do you want Thai citizenship?) 
> _so if one gets thai citizenship and one has an income or retirement from another country is one required to pay tax?._
> 
> 
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> 			
> 				(Origina reply quote by William ) The Revenue Code is very clear on this issue. Anyone, regardless of whether or not they are Thai, who is a resident in Thailand for tax purposes (i.e., 180 days or more) is subject to income tax on their world-wide earnings; PROVIDED THAT, the earnings must be brought into Thailand in the same calendar year as they are earnt.


Having to pay a tax on ones income is not a good thing, but to pay tax twice on the same income is out of the question!

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## DrB0b

> Originally Posted by *everglaze*  (Do you want Thai citizenship?) 
> _so if one gets thai citizenship and one has an income or retirement from another country is one required to pay tax?._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 			
> ...


That doesn't apply to most people in the world. I guess you're a USian - never understood why they're supposed to pay taxes when they're not even living in that country.

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## everglaze

There is some programs here in the U S like 401k and IRA when you put funds in your not taxed on that amount of your income, but when you go and get your money on a later date you have to pay tax then.

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## watterinja

* 	Do you want Thai citizenship?*

There was a time, when I first came to Thailand, where I considered that as a potential long-term aim.

After having been here for around 5 years, my ideas have changed & the idea no longer really seems attractive. I guess that once one sees the place for what it really is, warts & all, that the idea loses its gloss.

I would far rather move to an alternative Asian country where Westerners are more appreciated, or even to Australia, New Zealand.

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## Boon Mee

> Originally Posted by JoGeAr
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> 
>  Originally Posted by everglaze
> ...


That's correct Mr. Earl.
My wife has both legal Thai citizenship (born in LOS) and US citizenship (naturalized).  She can travel a whole lot easier on the US passport.

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## William

> Originally Posted by *everglaze*  (Do you want Thai citizenship?) 
> _so if one gets thai citizenship and one has an income or retirement from another country is one required to pay tax?._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> ...


It is highly unlikely, as  Thai tax resident, would one be required to pay double tax on income.  For example, if one is a US resident, there is a tax treaty that would give certain tax credits.  There may be a few expections to this rule, but very easy to avoid.

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## William

> *     Do you want Thai citizenship?*
> 
> There was a time, when I first came to Thailand, where I considered that as a potential long-term aim.
> 
> After having been here for around 5 years, my ideas have changed & the idea no longer really seems attractive. I guess that once one sees the place for what it really is, warts & all, that the idea loses its gloss.
> 
> I would far rather move to an alternative Asian country where Westerners are more appreciated, or even to Australia, New Zealand.


As a fellow who grew up _just down the road_ from you, I'd largely agree with you.  Problem is, it ain't so easy anymore...

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## watterinja

^ Fair comment. I'm pretty ok in that I have a strong family presence in Australia, & that my Dad was actually from Australian stock - family tree directly traceable & all that. I have always held that as a kind of rearguard opportunity, but have been giving it more & more thought of late.

My uncle - an ex SA bank director - moved over to Australia a few years back & has been very happy. His son has been there for many years. I've also made a few academic friends at reasonably high levels over there & had been of mind to begin looking them up sooner, rather than later.

I've no real mind to go back to SA as it has apparently really begun bending over Blackwards - not my cup-of-tea - may as well compete in Asia. 

I just think that one's ceiling in Thailand is really limited due to the local racist, jobs-for-pals & hold-wages-low mentality. There can not really be a long-term perspective here as we are considered at transient entities at the best of times. I'm not sure how Thai nationality would alter the 'rip-whitey' attitudes that prevail.

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## William

^I'll be in Kaapstad for Xmas this year. First time in 21 years my family and I will spend Xmas together.


I'm excited  :Smile:

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## a. boozer

> ^I'll be in Kaapstad for Xmas this year. First time in 21 years my family and I will spend Xmas together.
> 
> 
> I'm excited


Does that mean that Santa Claus does not have so far to travel to deliver your Seasonal goodies?   :Confused:

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## Mr Earl

> I just think that one's ceiling in Thailand is really limited due to the local racist, jobs-for-pals & hold-wages-low mentality. There can not really be a long-term perspective here as we are considered at transient entities at the best of times. I'm not sure how Thai nationality would alter the 'rip-whitey' attitudes that prevail.


It's a dog eat dog world out there for the most part! Thailand is no exception.

If a person has made the commitment to stay here Thai citizenship offers a little more flexibility. Just being able to own land and a house without all the convoluted leasing or Thai company gyrations would be a big advantage.

I'm certain just having citizenship wouldn't change any of the "rip-whitey" attitudes. You would just be in a a better position to do the ripping of whitey yourself. Why only let the Thai make money off tourists?
Who knows better than a farang what a farang want's?

If it wasn't for the many farangs behind the scenes here who have citizenship and own business the place would revert back to the "jungle" in a fairly short time.

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## watterinja

> ^I'll be in Kaapstad for Xmas this year. First time in 21 years my family and I will spend Xmas together.
> 
> I'm excited


Good for you - enjoy. A pretty city/area & generally decent folks, to boot. Bring back some pics.   :Wink:

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## Sebastien

Quote:
(Original reply quote by William ) The Revenue Code is very clear on this issue. Anyone, regardless of whether or not they are Thai, who is a resident in Thailand for tax purposes (i.e., 180 days or more) is subject to income tax on their world-wide earnings; PROVIDED THAT, the earnings must be brought into Thailand in the same calendar year as they are earnt. 

What about double taxation treaties? Most western countries have one with Thailand... Don't a person can choose in which country he or she wants to pay taxes according to these treaties?

Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kingdom of Thailand : : Economic Agreement

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## William

^yes, they do apply.  But the Revenue Code is clear on this: earn the money this year and bring the money into Thailand and you are subject to income tax.

Likewise, keep the money out of Thailand for the year and you are not subject to income tax - on the double-jep rationale.  

So, if I were a retired person offshore paying tax, and resided in LoS, I'd use my pension payments from last year  to live here, which would be tax free. 

But then, people pay me to give this kind of advice  :Smile:

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## Marmite the Dog

> But then, people pay me to give this kind of advice


And of course, if you're any good, you don't pay tax on those earnings either.  :Smile:

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## dirtydog

^ you always got to pay some tax otherwise they investigate you too hard  :Sad:

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## reddevil

No, you don't!

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## watterinja

> ^yes, they do apply.  But the Revenue Code is clear on this: earn the money this year and bring the money into Thailand and you are subject to income tax.
> 
> Likewise, keep the money out of Thailand for the year and you are not subject to income tax - on the double-jep rationale.  
> 
> So, if I were a retired person offshore paying tax, and resided in LoS, I'd use my pension payments from last year  to live here, which would be tax free. 
> 
> But then, people pay me to give this kind of advice


I'm going to have my retired English friend contact you. This would probably set his mind straight - he's really worried about this whole tax issue, offshore banking & how it affects his pensions, etc. I'll pm you his contact details in a few days.

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## sabang

> If it wasn't for the many farangs behind the scenes here who have citizenship and own business the place would revert back to the "jungle" in a fairly short time.


Don't forget the Thai Chinese now! I sometimes wonder how Thailand would have evolved if it weren't for them.  :Surprised:

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