#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Farming & Gardening In Thailand >  >  How do ask for a datura plant in Thai

## wichenburi

I would like to purchase a few Datura plants. But the word Datura means nothing to the Thai gardener i have. Please help me with a translation that he may know.

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## Happyman

Means f*ckall to me as well - cant help - sorry  :Smile: 

PS - My golly ! your AV is a bit top heavy - wanna post a full sized pic so we can all marvel at the sight !

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## somtamslap

Google a picture of it and shove it in their faces whilst saying 'you fucking well got this or what?'

Should do the trick..

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## DaffyDuck

> I would like to purchase a few Datura plants. But the word Datura means nothing to the Thai gardener i have. Please help me with a translation that he may know.


Print out a picture, show it to him, and point.

Datura

Uses: This is A Very Dangerous Plant!

Most parts of the Datura plant contain atropine, scopolamine, and hyoscyamine, alkaloid poisons having "anticholinergic" effects, i.e. they cross the blood-brain barrier and inhibit acetylcholine (the main neurotransmitter used by the parasympathetic nervous system). 

These three drugs relax muscles and glands regulated by this sytem, and thus find uses in anaesthesia and as antispasmodics. For example, scopolomine has been used in minute doses as sleeping medicine, but if overdosed can produce "delirium, delusions, paralysis, stupor and death". Symptoms likely to be produced by these drugs include urinary retention, dry mouth, throat, and skin, blurred vision, headache and nausea, dizziness, flushing, fever, euphoria, hallucinations, and short-term memory loss. 

Little wonder, then, that intoxication with Datura (which contains all three of these chemicals) typically produces "effects similar to that of an anticholinergic delirium": "complete inability to differentiate reality from fantasy (frank delirium, as contrasted to hallucination); hyperthermia; tachycardia [rapid heart beats]; agitation, including bizarre, inexplicable, and possibly violent behavior; and severe mydriasis (hyper-dilation of the eye pupil, due to inibition of acetylcholine function), with resultant painful photophobia that can last several days. Pronounced amnesia is another commonly-reported effect."

According to the drug information site Erowid (see that link), no other substance has received as many "Train Wreck" severely-negative experience reports as has Datura, the writers noting that "the overwhelming majority of those who describe to us their use of Datura (and to a lesser extent, Belladonna, Brugmansia and Brunfelsia) find their experiences extremely mentally and physically unpleasant and not infrequently physically dangerous."

What are your plans for these plants?

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## DrAndy

> I would like to purchase a few Datura plants. But the word Datura means nothing to the Thai gardener i have. Please help me with a translation that he may know.





> What are your plans for these plants?


I hope you don't have murder in your heart

this is amusing

Dangerous leaves and urban myths

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## Norton

If you are referring to datura aka Angels Trumpet, think it would be Lamphong Khaao in Thai.

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## wichenburi

> Originally Posted by wichenburi
> 
> 
> I would like to purchase a few Datura plants. But the word Datura means nothing to the Thai gardener i have. Please help me with a translation that he may know.
> 
> 
> Print out a picture, show it to him, and point.
> 
> Datura
> ...


I like them they look good, big showy plant, no murder is not what I have in mind. The picture idea is good,

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## DrAndy

I have seen a lot of them around the mediterranean

I don't like them, remind me of death

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## wichenburi

> If you are referring to datura aka Angels Trumpet, think it would be Lamphong Khaao in Thai.


Thanks Norton, that is the perfect answer. The plant looks good. Is it a good choice for Thailand

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## filch

Wichenburi, if you're not an experienced phsyconaut be very VERY careful with this one.

Erowid Experience Vaults: Datura - A Tale of Nudity, Arrest & Insanity..... - 17700

Read a lot about it, personally I'd be way too scared to try. Hope you are just using it as a pretty decoration.

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## wichenburi

> Wichenburi, if you're not an experienced phsyconaut be very VERY careful with this one.
> 
> Erowid Experience Vaults: Datura - A Tale of Nudity, Arrest & Insanity..... - 17700
> 
> Read a lot about it, personally I'd be way too scared to try. Hope you are just using it as a pretty decoration.


That site is unreal, the plant could become very popular if people visit the site. Where you find that site. nice plant, I had no idea about the rest of it.

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## filch

Yeah Erowid is a very educational site. Hopefully through its experiences and providing some education to people they will save a few numpties from dosing themselves to death.

I came across the site a while back after learning a little about DMT. And no, I have never taken DMT but I was curious to learn more.

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## UncleBank

I have heard that called "Dok Hello" in the north.

The flower kinda looks like the old telephone ear piece.

I can imagine some drunk falang trying to make a mock phone call on it years ago to the amusement of the locals and the name stuck.

Hello hello, I want to place a call overseas.

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## wichenburi

> I have heard that called "Dok Hello" in the north.
> 
> The flower kinda looks like the old telephone ear piece.
> 
> I can imagine some drunk falang trying to make a mock phone call on it years ago to the amusement of the locals and the name stuck.
> 
> Hello hello, I want to place a call overseas.


I have grown the plant in England and its really nice and grows very big quickly, But will it grow in Thailand. 

maybe a good cat killer and the local thai dogs may get more then they bargained for. I think its a winner.

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## Propagator

> Thanks Norton, that is the perfect answer. The plant looks good. Is it a good choice for Thailand


Have seen them growing many places in Thailand.    It is the Datura candida (suaveolens) and part of the deadly nightshade family

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## wichenburi

Thank you for your reply, I think it looks nice but is it a good choice of plant or would you recommend something else for Thailand. I do have children and some of what i have learned has put me off.

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## filch

I'd recommend something else Wichenburi. Although not being a gardener or horticulturalist I would not know what to suggest. A trip to a local shrubbery or garden center perhaps?

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## wichenburi

I think you maybe correct. But gardening in Thailand is not easy, the language is a killer. Going to the garden center and pointing and hope for the best. Thompson and Morgan made it easy at home.

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## filch

As another poster suggested, pictures. In horticulture they are priceless in identifying species.

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## nedwalk

[QUOTE="DaffyDuck"]What are your plans for these plants?[/QUOTE

was my original thought too.. the local council on the area have deemed this plant a noxious weed, though i still see them around the place from time to time they are a pretty plant

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## Norton

Take a look here.  Might give you a few ideas.  Best way to decide is to visit local nurseries.  They will have plants which grow best in your area.  

https://teakdoor.com/farming-and-gard...ctures-16.html (Thai flowers, your pictures)

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## Gipsy

Let's not confuse plant names…. Asked for was a Thai name for a "*Datura*". I can't help you on that one…. But the plant you are asking for is no longer a *Datura*; it's called a *Brugmansia*. 

At one time *Brugmansia* plants were included in the genus *Datura*, but taxonomists have, in 1973, divided the two groups into different genera. I see a lots of posts referring to the toxicity of the *Datura*, and although the *Brugmansia* is toxic as well, it is a different plant. 

No idea how old your children are, but I would not grow any of the 2 plants, until they are able to understand these plants can be harmful and therefor will not touch them. They will, of course, grow to an age where they might find out the plant is more than just a good-looking plant and start experimenting!  :mid: 

I grow a few colors of the *Brugmansia*'s in my garden, and my neighbor has specifically asked to grow a few next to the fence…. Every now and then he's collecting a few spent flowers and carrying them into the kitchen...

*Brugmansia*'s are a long-lived, woody perennial, eventually reaching heights of over 20 feet. They have downward to slightly outward-facing, large (6" to 24" long) trumpet-shaped blooms, in shades of white, cream, yellow, peach, orange, pink, and red and rarely set seed. In contrast, 

*Datura*'s are a short-lived herbaceous perennial (they rarely live more than 3-4 years), are usually grown as an annual, and rarely exceed heights over 6 feet. Their smaller (2" to 8" long) white, cream, yellow, lavender or purple flowers are held upright above the plants and set seed freely.

*Datura* fruiits are round shaped and prickly but *Brugmansia* fruits are cucumber shaped and not prickly.   

More general info on *Brugmansia*: Brugmansia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A lot of pictures for *Brugmansia* species and hybrids: http://toptropicals.com/catalog/uid/brugmansia_arborea.htm

More general info on *Datura*: Datura metel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pictures of *Datura* metel ( Datura metel known as "Lam-Pohng" in the Central part of Thailand and as "Ma Khuea Ban" (=Mad Egg-plant ) in the North):www.TopTropicals.com - rare plants for home and garden

And an easy way to score plants is to always have your 'wishlist with pictures' with you whenever you get close to flower markets, nurseries or visiting beautiful gardens. (Store this wish list on your mobile phone or your iPod and just show it after saying "Ton mai nee, mee mai?...") Like me, many people do not always know their scientific name, or (local) Thai name, but mostly the flower or fruit is recognized quickly and a finger will point you in the right direction....

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## Norton

> No idea how old your children are, but I would not grow any of the 2 plants, until they are able to understand these plants can be harmful and therefor will not touch them.


If you plan to have dogs or other animals not recommended either.

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## wichenburi

> Let's not confuse plant names. Asked for was a Thai name for a "*Datura*". I can't help you on that one. But the plant you are asking for is no longer a *Datura*; it's called a *Brugmansia*. 
> 
> At one time *Brugmansia* plants were included in the genus *Datura*, but taxonomists have, in 1973, divided the two groups into different genera. I see a lots of posts referring to the toxicity of the *Datura*, and although the *Brugmansia* is toxic as well, it is a different plant. 
> 
> No idea how old your children are, but I would not grow any of the 2 plants, until they are able to understand these plants can be harmful and therefor will not touch them. They will, of course, grow to an age where they might find out the plant is more than just a good-looking plant and start experimenting! 
> 
> I grow a few colors of the *Brugmansia*'s in my garden, and my neighbor has specifically asked to grow a few next to the fence. Every now and then he's collecting a few spent flowers and carrying them into the kitchen...
> 
> *Brugmansia*'s are a long-lived, woody perennial, eventually reaching heights of over 20 feet. They have downward to slightly outward-facing, large (6" to 24" long) trumpet-shaped blooms, in shades of white, cream, yellow, peach, orange, pink, and red and rarely set seed. In contrast, 
> ...


Its nice to know some else likes the plant, the Metel is very beautiful. Thank you for all the information. In the UK the plant is often called both Datura and Brugmansia. Thank you for the reply.

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## Gipsy

Update: Yes, anything that can chew on the different plant parts should not be tempted and kept away for it's own safety.... Maybe we should start a thread with all the poisonous plants growing in Thailand.

The second link (photo's of Brugmansia) does not seem to work, whatever I try, but once at TopTropicals, just type Brugmansia in the search bar, and you will find..... And Google has lots of them as well.

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## Norton

> Maybe we should start a thread with all the poisonous plants growing in Thailand.


A Chaingmai site.

One Man's Poison: plants<br><em>Toxic plants of Thailand</em> by David H. Engel

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## Gipsy

Thanks Norton, it was closer then I thought..... 

And it answers the question from Wichenburi.... "Lamphong-Khaao" (=White Lampion?) is the name for the Brugmansia. Not to be confused with "Lamphong" for the Datura.

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## Norton

They don't do well in most parts of Isaan.  Tried here in Roiet without success.  Maybe too dry or soil type not conducive to them.

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## forreachingme

Cigarettes for asthmatics are made with the Datura plant, used as drugs by some silly guys...

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## namkha

hi

datura is usually called

don lampong

or 

dok lampong

i.e. speaker tree or speaker flower

because the flower looks like an old gramaphone speaker

there are other names for it in various SE Asian dialects and languages

various Datura species are thought to be native to Asia e.g. Datura metel, whereas Dartura stramonium is probably native so South/Central America

it's used mixed with tobacco or ganja, usually as dried leaves --- mixed with ganja it gets you very high

herbalists use it as a remedy for asthma and sinus congestion

Chantaburi in Central Thailand, and Chiang Rai and Mae Hong Son in the North are good places to find Datura growing

seeds are dangerously toxic if more than a couple are eaten 

my advice: do not play around with this plant! you might end up dead

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## filch

Already gave warnings about this plant and a link to the erowid site, just in case anyone is thinking of tinkering around with this very VERY powerful hallucinogen. A potential killer.

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## jandajoy

Wow, what a flash from the past.

Dattura seeds. Made into tea.

Fast for at least 24hours before drinking said tea.

You will be sick

Take off within the hour of ingestion.

Landed.......... no idea, lots later. 

Ahh the early 70s. 

Such fun, such danger, such .............. stuff.    :Smile:

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## filch

I'd love to see someone (with a sitter) be followed about with a camera whilst under the influence of datura. The closest I've come is reading the experiences on Erowid. 

Sounds like a wild trip, not one I'd fancy though. The constant thirst, the madness, the looonnnnng hangover and blurred vision.

Not for me but I'd be interested in watching. Much like the LSD expirements the US Military did back in the 60's.

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## jandajoy

Did it a couple of times. Really quite extraordinary. I think the effect was reduced by making a tea. It was, however, quite err......... interesting.

Far more intense and deep than acid.

Far more potent that mescaline.

Fly agaric and their ilk don't even get close. 

Ahhhh, happy days.  Never again though.

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## jandajoy

> The constant thirst,



Didn't get that, as I remember.





> the looonnnnng hangover and blurred vision.


Dope cured the hangover. Vision was as blurred as ever, no worries




> the madness


That's what we payed for. That's why we took it.    :Smile:

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## namkha

yeh, it is a powerful deleriant in the sense that you will loose self-control and get very confused... 

and it is a true hallucinogen in the sense that users see things which aren't there and thinks they are real 

many users become very scared and very agressive --- a friend of mine was attacked in India by a man high on datura

but the main point is it's very very TOXIC

if you eat or drink a hallucinogenic dose of datura it will trash your liver and your nervous system

long term effects on your health of the f-ing over datura will give your CNS can be hard to treat with conventional medicine

atropine and scopolamine inhibit communication along nerves - hence the delerium and confusion

the only person I know personally who used this plant throughout his life died of liver cancer in his 60s... 

so did Carlos Castaneda

the health consequences of misusing datura are well know in traditional medicine in Asia and the Americas

if you've been playing about with it my advice would be to go and see a traditional herbal doctor --- your system is bound to be way out of balance

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## jandajoy

^ bollocks mate.

Did it a couple of times in the 70s 

No major problems..

I did just throttle a dwarf though. 

does that count.

 :Smile: 

i'm joking.......

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## filch

You paid for it? It grows freely.

All reports I've read mentioned an unquenchable thirst. 

Furthest I went was LSD, but almost tried the '80's business mans' version DMT. But chickened out, must admit the reports I read about DMT are astounding!

Not many people are aware that IBM used to give their Design Engineers LSD and that's how today we have the modern microchip!

Drugs, without them where would we be!

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## jandajoy

never did dmt.

I'd joined up by then. Wouldn't have mixed.  :Smile:

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## jandajoy

> You paid for it? It grows freely.


Not in Aberdeen, as far as I'm aware.

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## filch

Same here, although still fascinated. It's amazing what your brain is capable of when the 'doors' are opened.

If I did DMT now or any form of hallucinogen I'd 'drop out' again.

I'll stick with me social norms, smokes and alcohol. Keep me eyes closed.

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## filch

> Not in Aberdeen, as far as I'm aware.


They do now grow it in the UK, maybe not back in the 70's.

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## Gipsy

> It was, however, quite err......... interesting.


jandajoy, bit of an ethnopharmacologist?  :mid:

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## jandajoy

> I'll stick with me social norms, smokes and alcohol. Keep me eyes closed.


YUP, me to now.

Though I do sometimes wonder............... :mid:

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## jandajoy

> jandajoy, bit of an ethnopharmacologist?


You'd be suprised

Dennis McKenna PhD, Ethnopharmacologist Video by DMT: The Spirit Molecule - MySpace Video

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## namkha

"Within an hour or two the mouth becomes dry, the skin flushed and the pupils dilated. There may be feelings of nausea and drowsiness, with a rise in temperature, and, depending on the amount taken, agitation, rapid or irregular heart beat and hallucinations, leading to highly abnormal behaviour. This state can be followed by delerium, convulsions, coma and sometimes death. Visual disturbances may persist for up two weeks."
Poisonous Plants and Fungi, MAFF HMSO

That is your central and sympathetic nervous system being fucked to bits, and also internal organs.

Every culture which has a tradition of using datura as for medicinal or "spriritual" reasons advises that uniformed use of it will have longterm consequences.

I was looking in a Thai herbal about datura recently, while at the home of an old Thai herbalist I know, and it advised that using hallucinogenic doses can lead to longterm delusional states and insanity

if you want to fuck about with Thai herbs stick to ganja and kratom

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## jandajoy

> "Within an hour or two the mouth becomes dry, the skin flushed and the pupils dilated. There may be feelings of nausea and drowsiness, with a rise in temperature, and, depending on the amount taken, agitation, rapid or irregular heart beat and hallucinations, leading to highly abnormal behaviour. This state can be followed by delerium, convulsions, coma and sometimes death. Visual disturbances may persist for up two weeks." Poisonous Plants and Fungi, MAFF HMSO  That is your central and sympathetic nervous system being fucked to bits, and also internal organs.



Maybe we were doing a different type of Datura seeds. Don't think so though. I thought it was quite fun at the time.  :Smile:

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## namkha

> Originally Posted by jandajoy
> 
> Not in Aberdeen, as far as I'm aware.
> 
> 
> They do now grow it in the UK, maybe not back in the 70's.


Datura stramonium grows wild in the UK

it was used in Northern UK to poison grain of Vikings when they invaded the east coast

it's been used as a hexing herb since way back, along with henbane and nightshades

flying broomsticks etc. go back to illusions of magic flight etc. that were created by pastes of datura etc. smeared on the body or on a stick held between the legs

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## namkha

> Maybe we were doing a different type of Datura seeds. Don't think so though. I thought it was quite fun at the time.


all species of datura have the same toxins -- atropine and scopolamine

I sell herbs for a living

including datura

you really shouldn't go around telling people it's ok to take them

it isn't 

you were lucky, plenty of other people weren't and won't be

smoking the leaves is hard to do yourself serious damage

but eating the plant is very dangeous

I'd stick with looking at them --- they are very pretty plants with a funky  menacing kind of vibe

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## jandajoy

> or on a stick held between the legs


Never did that  :Smile:

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## jandajoy

> you really shouldn't go around telling people it's ok to take them


Didn't.

Wouldn't

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## jandajoy

> but eating the plant is very dangeous


Read the post. We made tea.

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## namkha

eating, drinking --- same difference mate

the toxins are water soluble

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## jandajoy

Ah well, there you go.........

all's well that ends well. Eh ?    :Smile:

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## Gipsy

Relax namkha... take some of your own stuff!  :Smile: 

jandajoy survived another 40 years! Didn't we all do things we, at later age, would never want to do again? Like this man/ethnopharmacologist? He became 102 years old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yU671wQua4

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## filch

> Originally Posted by namkha
> 
> you really shouldn't go around telling people it's ok to take them
> 
> 
> Didn't.
> 
> Wouldn't


Also note I included the Erowid link in my very early posts.

I have not, NEVER recommended it.

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## namkha

Gipsy

apologies for the surfeit of accurate information 

interesting you mentioned Albert Hoffman, the inventor of LSD: 

I mentioned earlier a  friend of mine's father who was a datura user and died of liver cancer (I am not claiming a definite link there, but I think it's very likely there was one) 

his name was Rudolf Gelpke and as well as being up to his neck in occult lore and magic he was also the second ever person to take LSD, along with his brother Wendel Gelpke

Hoffman called them up after his first trip as they were old friends - but RG was a much more "out there" character than Hoffman - Hoffman was basically a very straight scientist researching migraine cures at the time he discovered Acid

Hoffman was in RG's wife's words "a bourgeois" --- he was very square, basically conservative in outlook, and very health conscious 

Hoffman would not have had bags of datura seed in his fridge with "non tocare" written on them, like Gelpke did

anyway... to be honest Gipsy, the fact that you post a link about LSD is kind of telling ---  LSD and Datura have pretty well zero in common 

the experiences and the risks and dangers are in no way comparable

LSD has low to no toxicity, the risk of damaging your body (as opp. to mind) are very very low --- the dangers of LSD are psychological damage -- mental trauma, PTSD, a very low risk of permanent psychosis

datura on the other hand has very very high toxicity, it is potentially fatal, and is very likely to leave you with permanent physical and mental damage

hence why I'm trying make what I'm saying crystal clear: all I;m saying is - understand what you put in your body, esp. understand the risks you are taking with your health and your life 

datura is a very very dangerous plant to play around with - it is not a recreational drug...

with datura an active hallucinogenic dose and a potentially fatal dose are very very close

there is no way at all for a casual user to to be able to accurately determine if the dose they are taking is just going to fuck them up or if it is going to kill them... the threshold between "high" and dead is very very small

maybe this will put it in context: how many people fancy drinking some Deadly Nightshade tea?

it's the same stuff in Deadly Nightshade... and Henbane, another famous poison... atropine, scopolamine etc.

IMHO jandajoy and anybody else who has taken datura "for fun" are very lucky to be here... I did the same when I was about 20... and like jandajoy - never again!

anyway - just to be clear this info is not intended to be lecturing/having a go at anybody in this thread, it's info for the benefits of people who happen to stumble across this thread while surfing the web about datura

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## nedwalk

> --- LSD and Datura have pretty well zero in common


 
just the fact that they,ll both get ya really wasted.. seems the most obvious to me

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## robuzo

^One of which can waste you permanently.  Every year one or two knuckleheads in my hometown would eat some Jimson Weed and be found, for example, walking down King Street naked and shouting.

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## DrAndy

> he was also the second ever person to take LSD, along with his brother Wendel Gelpke


not very good at maths either!

datura is used by Shamans wherever the plant is found, it transports them to the "other" world

they seem to have enough knowledge to does themselves accurately

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## namkha

> they seem to have enough knowledge to does themselves accurately


they does, does they?

OK DrAndy - well off you go and "does" yourself you Shaman you... 

the only "other" world it's likely to transport you to is the one beyond the grave, with no return ticket

maybe you could "does" yourself with some shamanic Deadly Nightshade too?

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## mingmong

me too, yes tried lots mushrooms and lsd no problems now...................
just compare to the Japs that blew Pearl Harbour, they didnt need uppers, talked them selfs up to it,

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## jandajoy

> me too, yes tried lots mushrooms and lsd no problems now................... just compare to the Japs that blew Pearl Harbour, they didnt need uppers, talked them selfs up to it,


WTF are you babbling about you idiot

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## English Noodles

This is the guy who freaked out about someone smoking a spliff, yeh right. :mid: 

Anyone tried a human adrenaline gland?

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## Gipsy

> they does, does they?


DrAndy, somebody else 'dose' that a lot, you noticed? Hint:  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> 
>  
> they seem to have enough knowledge to does themselves accurately
> 
> 
> they does, does they?
> 
> ...


 
bloody hell, a little dyslexic slip of the fingers and you are all over me

revenge for your maths problem?

as for "Deadly" nightshade, _atropa belladonna_, it is used fairly frequently in small doses

My great-uncle was a herbalist and gave me some when I was a kiddy to help cure a muscle problem

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## namkha

DrAndy

not having a go at you for being dyslexic, having a go at you for being a pedantic twat and missing the point while you were at it ---

out of interest which of those two brothers would you insist was the third ever person to take LSD given that they both took it at the same time? ... 

sometimes an excess of precision leads to inaccuracy, 

just like being too pedantic is often a symptom of being a bit thick

and the point being debated here was about using datura etc. as a recreational drug

I didn't see anybody disputing that they can be used as medicines in the hands of people who know their shit

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## jandajoy

One thing that did detract from the "fun" angle was the 24 hour fast before drinking the tea. Require though.

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## DrAndy

> t having a go at you for being dyslexic, having a go at you for being a pedantic twat and missing the point while you were at it ---


pity that you didn't actually use the correct words then; it was your stressing the word "does" rather than mentioning a little joke I made, that must have mislead me, and probably everyone else. Nice try




> out of interest which of those two brothers would you insist was the third ever person to take LSD given that they both took it at the same time? ...


 
dunno, I have never seen "Synchronised Drug Taking"




> just like being too pedantic is often a symptom of being a bit thick


I know, don't worry about it. If you have to insist on the two taking it at exactly the same time, that is not pedantic at all


anyway, enough of this pettiness. Come and have some fun in the lounge or MKP rather than polluting this thread

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