#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > The Family Room >  >  Advice required

## astasinim

My little lad is now 5 years old, and the other day I was wondering whether or not, it would be worth while getting him his Thai citizenship. When he was born, I was adamant he wouldnt need it (loads of different reasons). My main reason was him possibly having to do national service (doesnt he need to speak fluent Thai though?)

Fast forward 5 years, and im wondering if we were too quick to make that decision? Im thinking more in terms of 15-20 years down the line, will there be any advantage to him having Thai citizenship? Any constructive thoughts welcome.

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## nigelandjan

If he had dual citizenship would he still have to do his National service ?

If not I'd go for it , mabe he will get a good paying job in the UK or somewhere else in the future and fancy buying a piece of land or some rubber plantation to invest in for an early retirement ?

 Just a few thoughts ,, lucky lad

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## astasinim

> If he had dual citizenship would he still have to do his National service ?
> 
> If not I'd go for it ,


Not sure Nigel. I was thinking, officially, he isnt allowed to have duel nationality if we want him to be a Thai national. I must admit, the national service bit is the big sticking point for me.



> mabe he will get a good paying job in the UK or somewhere else in the future and fancy buying a piece of land or some rubber plantation to invest in for an early retirement ?
> 
>  Just a few thoughts ,, lucky lad


Basically, I just want him to have as many options as possible, and be able to travel to as many places as he needs to, without all the added hassles.

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## Gerbil

Dual citizenship does not exempt a Thai from military service.

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## nigelandjan

> Basically, I just want him to have as many options as possible, and be able to travel to as many places as he needs to, without all the added hassles.


  Sure you do mate as any Dad would ,, sorry I don't have the answer ,, good luck with it anyway  :Smile:

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## astasinim

> Dual citizenship does not exempt a Thai from military service.


What about an inability to read, write and speak the language fluently?

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## AUSSIE EXPAT

Might pay you to do a bit more homework.

If he doesn't speak Thai then a bit difficult for him to do national service. What are the rules here, I'm sure it's happened before now.

As you would know, he has to be Thai to own land so depends what you want to do in this regard.

My two sons ( 3 and 5 ) speak both English and Thai. Did you make a concious decision not to teach him Thai for this reason?

You say you want him to have many options - English citizenship and passport should give him a fair run I would have thought.

Don't over complicate things now if you don't need to, unless you have a pressing reason to do something now.

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## kingwilly

If you can get him two passports (despite the legalities or not), then why not? I've given my kids 2 passports each.

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## can123

What is so awful about Thai National Service duties ? Surely the benefits of dual nationality outweigh all other matters ? It doesn't seem the boy is properly equipped to live outside Thailand anyway. Win/win situation if free to live in both as a citizen.

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## astasinim

> Might pay you to do a bit more homework.


  Hence the question here. Im sure there are many here who have the experience.



> If he doesn't speak Thai then a bit difficult for him to do national service. What are the rules here, I'm sure it's happened before now.


He can speak some Thai, but is very shy about it. He cant read or write it though




> As you would know, he has to be Thai to own land so depends what you want to do in this regard.


Not really bothered about all that. He`ll have far more left to him here, than in Thailand.




> You say you want him to have many options - English citizenship and passport should give him a fair run I would have thought.


I agree. Its not a bad start for him, but if he can add more options then surely thats a bonus?




> Don't over complicate things now if you don't need to, unless you have a pressing reason to do something now.


None what soever. Although I understand there is a certain time frame in which this needs to be done.




> If you can get him two passports (despite the legalities or not), then why not? I've given my kids 2 passports each.


Thats kind of what im thinking. Its just the military thing im bothered about. If he`s going to join any mans army, then it would be the British, and I wouldnt be overly happy about that. Speaking from experience, I would say, unless your joining as an officer, then its not really an ideal career choice.

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## astasinim

> What is so awful about Thai National Service duties ? Surely the benefits of dual nationality outweigh all other matters ?


You`ve got to be kidding, right? 







> It doesn't seem the boy is properly equipped to live outside Thailand anyway. Win/win situation if free to live in both as a citizen.


He was born, and is being raised in the UK, so I would say he`s quite well equipped.

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## benbaaa

Don't quote me on this as I'm not completely sure, but one of my co-teachers asked one of his students why he keeps turning up to learn English in military fatigues. He said that at his Thai school, if you joined the military training classes, you don't have to do national service when you finish school. Don't know if this is correct or not, but you might want to make further enquiries in this direction.

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## superman

You are correct Benbaaa.




> Basically, I just want him to have as many options as possible, and be able to travel to as many places as he needs to, without all the added hassles.


You answered the question yourself.

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## kmart

> Don't quote me on this as I'm not completely sure, but one of my co-teachers asked one of his students why he keeps turning up to learn English in military fatigues. He said that at his Thai school, if you joined the military training classes, you don't have to do national service when you finish school. Don't know if this is correct or not, but you might want to make further enquiries in this direction.


Correct. Voluntary military training during school years exempts kids from the national service call-up. There are other ways to avoid the call-up as well.

I would say that dual nationality expands a child's options quite a bit. My 1 yo son has both now.

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## Davis Knowlton

My twins have US and Phil, primarily for future land ownership issues. But, there is no compulsory National Service here. I also at one time thought being a documented Asian minority when applying to US colleges might be a plus. But, by the time they apply, it may be a negative as they will probably no longer be a minority.

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## Patrick

I assume you are not presently living in Thailand and he is entitled to Thai Nationality because one of his Parents is Thai?

If that is so he is already a Dual National (Thai and British) - he simply does not have the necessary documentation, - I.D. Card, Passport etc. for his Thai Nationality. (He - or his Parents - need do nothing to "apply" for his Thai Nationality, he already has that and it cannot be lost or revoked except in very extreme circumstances - and neither Thailand or the U.K. have any legislation against a person holding Dual Nationality.)

There is no time limit for applying for this documentation so unless he needs a Thai Passport (for example) immediately for some reason you need do nothing at all; he can even wait until he retires and if he decides to live in Thailand then he can apply for his Thai I.D. Card (assuming he can get himself on a Thai House Registration - your wife's Thai Family should be able to arrange that so keep in touch with them!), then get a Passport so he can live here without any Visa hassle etc..

If you are living in the U.K. and you wish to visit your wife's Thai family here (again, for example) he can enter on his U.K. Passport - with the necessary Visa - but would be subject to the same rules as any other foreign National visiting Thailand with reference to length of stay etc. etc., however if he had a Thai Passport then he should enter on that and would thus avoid any limitation on length of stay).

As regards liability for Thai National Service, he would only come to the notice of the Draft Board here if he was already on a Thai House Registration; if he is not, and you are all living abroad, there is no issue there, they simply do not know he exists. Further, if he returns to live permanently in Thailand after the age of 30 his liability for National Service lapses - although he would need to get a document from the Thai authorities confirming that, however that document is easily available.

Patrick

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## Bettyboo

No - awful idea.

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## nigelandjan

There is no guarantee he will have to do national service as its a bit of a lotto ,, apparently you have to choose a card red your in black your out ,, good luck

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## Dillinger

What's so bad if he has to do National Service anyway ?
It will give him a bit of character and make a man out of him.
They should bring it back in the UK too IMO

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## astasinim

> I assume you are not presently living in Thailand and he is entitled to Thai Nationality because one of his Parents is Thai?
> 
> If that is so he is already a Dual National (Thai and British) - he simply does not have the necessary documentation, - I.D. Card, Passport etc. for his Thai Nationality. (He - or his Parents - need do nothing to "apply" for his Thai Nationality, he already has that and it cannot be lost or revoked except in very extreme circumstances - and neither Thailand or the U.K. have any legislation against a person holding Dual Nationality.)


 How so? Other than his immediate family, no one in Thailand knows he exists.



> There is no time limit for applying for this documentation so unless he needs a Thai Passport (for example) immediately for some reason you need do nothing at all; he can even wait until he retires and if he decides to live in Thailand then he can apply for his Thai I.D. Card (assuming he can get himself on a Thai House Registration - your wife's Thai Family should be able to arrange that so keep in touch with them!), then get a Passport so he can live here without any Visa hassle etc..


Great. No time limit, so he can make his own choice when he`s old enough.



> If you are living in the U.K. and you wish to visit your wife's Thai family here (again, for example) he can enter on his U.K. Passport - with the necessary Visa - but would be subject to the same rules as any other foreign National visiting Thailand with reference to length of stay etc. etc., however if he had a Thai Passport then he should enter on that and would thus avoid any limitation on length of stay).


Already fully aware of that thanks.




> As regards liability for Thai National Service, he would only come to the notice of the Draft Board here if he was already on a Thai House Registration; if he is not, and you are all living abroad, there is no issue there, they simply do not know he exists. Further, if he returns to live permanently in Thailand after the age of 30 his liability for National Service lapses - although he would need to get a document from the Thai authorities confirming that, however that document is easily available.
> 
> Patrick


Hmmm after 30. Is there no rule that gives exemption, such as inability to speak, read and write Thai (easy to play dumb) due to being brought up over seas?



> What's so bad if he has to do National Service anyway ?
> It will give him a bit of character and make a man out of him.
> They should bring it back in the UK too IMO


I guess you havent read all the replies? Funny, most people I meet who support national service, are ones who have never served themselves. Why not start a thread about national service, and i`ll offer my opinion as to why I dont really support it.

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## can123

> What's so bad if he has to do National Service anyway ?
> It will give him a bit of character and make a man out of him.
> They should bring it back in the UK too IMO


I said this above but I drew the usual "gloom and doom" answer from a poster. Even if he was unlucky in the drafting lottery it's not as though he's going to join the bloody SAS, is it ? As it happens, these elite troops train on the mountains near me and every time I talk to them it is clear how much they love their jobs. Never seen soldiers do anything other than smile when they working here. The term "band of brothers" is a bit naff but I suppose it does illustrate, in part, how comradeship works. 

The big mistake you have made is failing to insist that he has kept up his Thai. Most kids lose it when they come to the UK but we nagged our daughter to read Thai Rath every day. The result is she is now fluent in English, Thai and Laotian although the lazy little bugger has not yet learned the "Lao" alphabet ( it would take her a couple of hours at most to enable here to read ). She has a good GCSE pass in English, better than most native Welsh kids in my town, and is now studying for a degree in nursing. Not bad for a little girl from Isaan ?

Dual nationality is obviously the way forward and you should ignore the muppets who tell you otherwise.

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## Dillinger

> most people I meet who support national service, are ones who have never served themselves


It ended in 1960, before my time.
I had discipline instilled in me growing up a Squaddie brat. I was in the Cubs, Scouts and Army Cadets and a member of Dennis the Menace's Fan Club(had the Gnasher badge).
Not much difference I should imagine. I doubt very much they are used on the Front Line

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## astasinim

^^
Perhaps if you wasnt such a pompous git, then you`d receive a more courteous reply. The big mistake you made, was assuming my son was born outside the UK, even though I stated otherwise. Therefore how can he have lost anything, when he never had it to start with. Secondly, you dont join the SAS, you are invited to take selection, in order to test ones suitability for the regiment. Have you seen the general make up of the British army? I have, which is part of the reason I left. So there is no way on this earth my lad will be joining the Thai forces, and helping them perpetuate their racist and overt corrupt society.

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## can123

> Have you seen the general make up of the British army? I have, which is part of the reason I left.


Yes, I have, and I clearly understand why you felt that you did not fit in there.

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## Patrick

> Originally Posted by Dillinger
> 
> 
> What's so bad if he has to do National Service anyway ?
> It will give him a bit of character and make a man out of him.
> They should bring it back in the UK too IMO
> 
> 
> I said this above but I drew the usual "gloom and doom" answer from a poster. Even if he was unlucky in the drafting lottery it's not as though he's going to join the bloody SAS, is it ? As it happens, these elite troops train on the mountains near me and every time I talk to them it is clear how much they love their jobs. Never seen soldiers do anything other than smile when they working here. The term "band of brothers" is a bit naff but I suppose it does illustrate, in part, how comradeship works. 
> ...


My Italics and underline :

Words fail me.

Why on earth would you make your child read Thai Rath to learn Thai??

Did you make her read the Sun to learn English??

Patrick

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## can123

> My Italics and underline :
> 
> Words fail me.
> 
> Why on earth would you make your child read Thai Rath to learn Thai??
> 
> Did you make her read the Sun to learn English??
> 
> Patrick


I am a qualified/experienced English teacher. If I was teaching a Thai English and was using a newspaper, I would use the Sun rather than the Telegraph. Simpler writing, more interesting, scandalous stories.

Clearly, my method worked.

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## Patrick

> Originally Posted by Patrick
> 
> My Italics and underline :
> 
> Words fail me.
> 
> Why on earth would you make your child read Thai Rath to learn Thai??
> 
> Did you make her read the Sun to learn English??
> ...


Oh - you're a "qualified" English teacher, my apologies!

I suppose your Thai wife also lets your daughter watch Thai "nam nao" Soap Operas so she "learns" Thai?

I'm British, my wife is Thai and our daughter, now 28, was not allowed to watch such rubbish and under no circumstances read the equivalent of Thai "Sun" type newspapers.

She is now totally Bi-lingual, graduated from LSE (London School of Economics) and is already earning a 6 figure (UK Pounds) Salary in London.

Which method do you think works best?

Patrick

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## klong toey

Pretty sure if he is studying at university then he will be okay and can avoid the draft.
 University students are exempted from the draft, deferred.  After graduation, they can volunteer for a six month program.

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## astasinim

> Originally Posted by astasinim
> 
> Have you seen the general make up of the British army? I have, which is part of the reason I left.
> 
> 
> Yes, I have, and I clearly understand why you felt that you did not fit in there.


As I thought, just another blowhard. Kindly take yourself and your superiority complex out of the family section, and exercise it in the more tolerated part of the forum.

Thanks




> Pretty sure if he is studying at university then he will be okay and can avoid the draft.
>  University students are exempted from the draft, deferred.  After graduation, they can volunteer for a six month program.


Thanks for bringing it back on track KT. I do hope he chooses a career that requires a degree, and will try to steer him in that direction, but ultimately its his choice. All good information though, thanks.

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## Dillinger

> Pretty sure if he is studying at university then he will be okay and can avoid the draft.


Just read on the other channel that with a degree you still have to serve 6 months instead of the 2 Years. the thread was called Military service how avoid. Some said on there that you can bribe your way out of it if done early enough and you know the right people, a couple of others mentioned the guys kid should become a ladyboy. It got a bit ugly. Thought I'd pre-warn you before giving you the link  Astas.
I still feel it's the best thing for your son to have Thai nationality to afford him the choice of homeowning or/and retiring one day in Thailand, especially with the way the UK is going pricewise.
Good Luck 

Military Service, How Avoid? - General topics - Thailand Forum

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## astasinim

Thanks. I`ll pop in and have a look.

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## Yasojack

I would like also to know, how my son could dodge the MS, any fekker that thinks its a good thing needs there head tested.

Just hope my son doesn't  have different ideas.

reading the link just about says it all.

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## astasinim

Some real crackpots over there. Sod it, I doubt we`ll go ahead and arrange his citizenship. I was only thinking that maybe, just maybe Thailand might become a decent country in the future, and citizenship for my boy would be an advantage for him. I guess if he`s got the skills, any country will have him anyway.

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## Yasojack

Asia is up and coming, decent is any ones guess, hopefully it will.

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## superman

> I doubt we`ll go ahead and arrange his citizenship.


Hopefully he'll have the sense to take it up once he's old enough.

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## benbaaa

You're welcome.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Why on earth would you make your child read Thai Rath to learn Thai??


Because he's a fucking retard as every post of his screams out.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Asia is up and coming


But most of it seems to be up and coming at Thailand's expense. Thailand is losing out to all the up and coming countries and appears to be growing at a much slower rate.

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## AUSSIE EXPAT

> But most of it seems to be up and coming at Thailand's expense. Thailand is losing out to all the up and coming countries and appears to be growing at a much slower rate.


Got it in one.

I think with all this political turmoil over the past however many years, Thailand is paying the price now.

I think they're gonna be in for a huge shock when ASEAN gets going.

The thread on Thai travel agents worried about competition amused me. It hadn't occurred to them to perhaps change their attitude and provide better service.

Lazy fcuks.

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## can123

> Originally Posted by Patrick
> 
> Why on earth would you make your child read Thai Rath to learn Thai??
> 
> 
> Because he's a fucking retard as every post of his screams out.


Are you able to read Thai Rath ? I doubt it. The paper was available on the Internet, had interesting stories and, thanks to it, she is able to speak, read and write Thai. The dopey farangs allow their Thai kids to lose their native languages, the more intelligent encourage them to keep them.

The guy who worries about a boy not being able to speak Thai has only himself to blame. No retards in my family.

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## 9999

Here's my plan fwiw, and at thhe end of the day, it's the kid's choice what they do with their lives.

I have a 1 yo daughter born in Thailand, and we plan on one more soon. When our first kid reaches an age where she needs to start serious education, maybe 5-7 years old, we move to Australia for free world class education. Already is a dual citizen with two passports.

The way I figure it, she will have a huge edge over here after getting an Aussie education from primary through to tertiary, whilst maintaining Thai nationality and literacy. Then she can unleash on Thai society with full rights as a Thai citizen. Rich Thais would (and do) pay a shitload to put their kids in this kind of position.

It certainly can't hurt anyway.

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## can123

Your plan is fine but you must work hard, and risk making yourself unpopular, to ensure that the Thai language skills are not lost. My daughter didn't like being made to read a Thai newspaper every day at the time. Now she realises that we did the right thing. She's very proud of the fact that she is fluent in three languages and is a more confident young lady as a consequence.

We are hoping  that she will qualify as a nurse in two years time. Given the poor way in which nurses in Thailand are rewarded for their efforts, it is very unlikely that she will ever work there. Nevertheless, her language skills are with her for the rest of her life and are invaluable in maintaining ties with Thai family and friends.

She also appreciates the advantages she has over most of her contemporaries by having experienced such a wide variety of cultures over a relatively short life.

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## ch1ldofthemoon

I have some thai friends,who have lived in london for over 30 years. They have two sons,who they got thai passports for, after the age of 21. The reason they wanted their sons to have thai passports,is because they own a lot of property in thailand. 
 Getting the passports was easy,but they had to pay something,to get the boys out of national service.....this happened last year.

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## Marmite the Dog

> move to Australia for free world class education.


Just spat coffee over my keyboard!

Anyway, your joking apart, there are many fine primary schools in Thailand that can compete with any state school in the West. It's the secondary education where Thailand falls to pieces.

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## 9999

> Your plan is fine but you must work hard, and risk making yourself unpopular, to ensure that the Thai language skills are not lost. My daughter didn't like being made to read a Thai newspaper every day at the time. Now she realises that we did the right thing. She's very proud of the fact that she is fluent in three languages and is a more confident young lady as a consequence.


Good on you for keeping up her language sure she appreciates it now. We want her to talk Thai with her grandparents and relatives in Thailand as often as possible. And also come back and visit at least once a year. Keeping her options open is the most important thing imo.




> Anyway, your joking apart, there are many fine primary schools in Thailand that can compete with any state school in the West. It's the secondary education where Thailand falls to pieces.


Maybe the case in blighty where they still live in the past and you get a crap education unless your aristocratic parents send you to preppy school.

There's nothing, not even the best private schools in BKK, that can compare with the free education my kids will get in Canberra. When talking about the west, there are varying levels of education. For example, what you say is true for the US (if you're not rich). 

If I could choose I would choose Finland to educate my children, but I can't. I certainly would not choose UK or USA, but the public system particularly in Canberra, Australia, is world class. I'm fortunate enough to have this option for my kids, so WTF would I be so irresponsible to have them educated in foking Thailand, when there are better, cheaper options.

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## DrAndy

> there are many fine primary schools in Thailand that can compete with any state school in the West. It's the secondary education where Thailand falls to pieces.


I agree with that!

trouble is, if you put your kid through primary in Thailand then move to your home country for secondary, there may be serious difficulties in adapting to a different system

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## 9999

^ Oh yes that's the other key point I forgot to raise (not the part about Thai primary education being on par with the west).

We all know how fucked up the Thai education system is and to say that this only kicks into gear in secondary school is absurd.

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## DrAndy

no. I don't know, but I have heard many different views

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