#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thai Visas and Visa Runs >  >  Translation of new Extension of Stay rules

## Mid

for those interested 

*http://www.wikifortio.com/779200/Isaan Lawyers.pdf*


Notice: This is a translation of the Police order 777/2551 done by Isaan Lawyers (Isaan Lawyers | Lawyer and attorney | Korat | Khon Kaen | Surin | Buriram | Udon | Ubon). This is not an official translation and it should be used only for information purposes. In case of discrepancy with the Thai version, you should know that the Thai document is the only official one. Red sections are new modifications.

original source : Thai Visa

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## SEA Traveler

Khun Mid,  unable to view the download.  Same difficulty experienced from TV link.  Suggestions on where to go to read and/or acquire interpretation and impact?  Kap Khun Kap!

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## Tom O

Same here!^

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## Mid

link leads to the d/l page and at the bottom of that page is a d/l button press that and it'll save to your computer , it's a .pdf so need adobe or similar to view .

works here ?

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## dirtydog

Can down load it here MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

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## chitown

I tried and could not view it.

All I need to know is if the married VISA rules been changed.

Have they? 

The keep moving the goal posts.  :Sad:

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## dirtydog

Text version here MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

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## Tom O

Well, not exactly the same. I am unable to veiw the page because of the system I am using.
Thanks, anyway.
Will try it again after work. :tieme:

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## Thetyim

Works for me  :irish:

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## Mid

Tom O try DD's text version , you gotta wait 30 sec's for the free d/l

cheers Thetyim

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## ChiangMai noon

works for me too, but they are very long.

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## Spin

Why is nobody just posting it here?

......Notice: This is a translation of the Police order 777/2551 done by Isaan Lawyers (Isaan Lawyers | Lawyer and attorney | Korat | Khon Kaen | Surin | Buriram | Udon | Ubon). This is not an official translation and it should be used only for information purposes. In case of discrepancy with the Thai version, you should know that the Thai document is the only official one. Red sections are new modifications.
Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters
No.777/2551
Re: Rules and Conditions in the Consideration of Alien Applications for Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand
Refer to order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters no.543/2549 dated on August 15, B.E.2549, order no. 56/2551 dated on January 21, B.E.2551 granted authority concerning to the consideration of alien applications for temporary stay basis of section 35 paragraph 3 of Immigration Act B.E.2522 and order no.606/2549 dated on September 8 B.E.2549 to rule and conditions in the consideration of aliens permission to stay in the Kingdom of Thailand on a temporary basis.
Whereas it is expedient to revise the rules and condition are hereby prescribed as guidelines for the Immigration Bureau to follow in granting aliens permissions to stay in the Kingdom of Thailand on a temporary basis. By virtue of Section 11(4) of the Royal Thai Police Act B.E. 2547, the Commissioner-General issued the order concerning to the rules and conditions are hereby prescribed as guidelines for the Immigration Bureau to follow in granting aliens permission to stay in the Kingdom of Thailand on a temporary basis of section 35 paragraph 3 of Immigration Act B.E.2522 as following;
1. The following orders are hereby repealed;
;
1.1 Order of the Royal Thai Police No.606/2549 dated September 8, B.E. 2549.
1.2 Order of the Royal Thai Police No. 56/2551 dated January 21, B.E. 2551.
2a
. The rules in the consideration of Alien applications in the Kingdom in the case of business for period of not more than 1 year at a time according section 35 paragraph 3 of Immigration Act B.E.2522, it shall follow the rules in the consideration of Alien application in the Kingdom of this order.
This Order shall supersede all other rules, regulations and orders that are contrary to or contradict this order.
3. During the proceedings of the consideration of an Alien application in the Kingdom as clause 2, the alien is allowed to stay temporarily in the Kingdom. The competent official may grant the alien a temporary stay several times if necessary under the circumstances, but the total number shall not exceed 30 days counting from the day after the expiration date.
4. If the applicant does not fully meet the qualifications as prescribed by this order, the competent official shall inform the applicant for his/her denial and he/she departs within 7 days after the permission date ended.
In case the applicant wishes to review the denial by the orders mentioned in clause 1, the applicant shall re-submit an application for another review, citing the reasons for the re-submission in a letter to a competent official holding a rank of a police inspector and higher. This is for the purpose of obtaining a decision in writing on the application. In this case, the applicant may attach all supporting documents to the application for re-submission at the same time. The review shall be carried out within the time limit prescribed by paragraph 1. During the proceeding of the consideration, the competent official shall set the date of result hearing within 7 days after the review application is submitted.
5. If the applicant does not fully meet the qualifications as prescribed by this order or other cases not stipulated herein, the competent official holding a rank of police inspector and higher will consider if there are sufficient reasons to stay in the Kingdom. If so, the competent official shall submit the application to the Command-General or authorized person to consider an alien applicant.
6. If an alien who has entered Thailand before this order came into force and has been continuously granted temporary stay as clause 2.18(6), in case the marriage with Thai lady, is found to lack the qualifications as prescribed in this order, the Commissioner of the Immigration Bureau or competent official shall consider and decide on the particular case based on the prevailing reasons and circumstances within 1 year from the effective date hereof.
This Order is effective from now.
Issued date of 25 November B.E.2551
Pol.Gen. Patcharawat Wongsuwan
The Commissioner-General
Re: Rules in the Consideration of Alien Applications for Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand according to clause 2 of the order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters no. 777/2551 dated on 25 November B.E.2551
Cases
Basis for Consideration
2.1 In the case of business such as employment with a company or partnership, etc.: Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien must have a temporary visa
(2) The alien must have an income consistent with that set out in the Income Table attached hereto; (exhibit a)
(3) The business concerned must have a registered capital of not less than Baht 2 million, fully paid-up;
(4) The business concerned must have duly submitted its financial statement as at the end of the two fiscal years and certified by an auditor or tax auditor, showing a sound financial condition and an on-going active business as attached order (exhibit b)
(5) The business needs to employ the aliens
(6) The business concerned must have a ratio of 1 alien to 4 Thai permanent employees.
(7) The following businesses are exempted from the requirements of clauses (3), (4) and (5), and the ratio of aliens to Thai employees under clause (6) shall be reduced to 1:1.
(a) International trade enterprise (Representative Office)
(b) Regional Office
(c) Multinational company (Branch Office)
2.2 In the case of working for an investment which entrusted from the concerned Ministry, Department, Division:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Confirmation has been given by and request has been made by the concerned Ministry, Department, Division.
2.3 In the case of working for a government agency, state enterprise, or other government agency. Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa
(2) Confirmation has been given by and request has been made by the particular organization or establishment.
(1) The alien has obtained a tourist visa
2.4 In the case of tourists:
(2) The alien must not be of the nationality or type restricted by the Performance Follow-up Committee attached to the Immigration Bureau.
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 30 days at a time but not exceeding 90 days in total, counting from the entry date.
A. In case of an investment of not less than 3 million baht
2.5 In the case of an investment:
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) The alien entered Thailand before October 1, 2006 and has been continuously allowed to remain in the Kingdom of not less than 3 million baht.
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(3) Proof of money transfer to Thailand of not less than 3 million baht
(4) Proof of investment to purchase a unit in a condominium from an agency or government agency concerned at a price of not less than 3 million baht
(5) Proof of investment in the form of a fixed deposit of not less than 3 million baht with a bank registered in Thailand with Thai shareholders comprising of more than 50% of its shareholders or;
(6) Proof of investment to purchase government or state enterprise bonds with a value of not less than 3 million baht or
(7) Proof of combined investments as set out in clauses (4),(5),
or (6) having a total value of not less than 3 million baht.
B. In case of an investment of not less than 10 million baht.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Proof of money transfer to Thailand of not less than 10 million baht.
(3) Proof of investment to purchase or rent for a period not less than 3 years of unit in a condominium from an agency or government agency concerned at a price of not less than 10 million baht.
(4) Proof of investment in the form of a fixed deposit of not less than 10 million baht with a bank registered in Thailand with Thai shareholders comprising more than 50% of its shareholders.
(5) Proof of investment to purchase government or state enterprise bonds with a value of not less than 10 million baht or
(6) Proof of combined investments as set out in clauses (3),(4)
Or (5) having a total value of not less than 10 million baht.
2.6 In the case of a teacher, professor or expert working at a state-owned educational institution:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Confirmation and request has been made by the particular educational institution.
2.7 In the case of a teacher, professor or expert working at a private educational institution:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) The particular educational institution holds a license from the competent authority to operate
(3) Confirmation and request has been made by the particular educational institution.
2.8 In the case of enrollment in a state-owned educational institution:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Confirmation and request has been made by the particular educational institution.
2.9 In the case of enrollment in a private educational institution: Permission will be granted for a period as confirmed by the institution but shall not be more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) The particular educational institution holds a license from the competent authority to operate; and
(3) Confirmation and request has been made by that particular institution; and
(4) That particular institution is accredited by the competent authority (except in the case of enrollment in an international school or university)
2.10 In the case of a teacher apprentice or researcher at a university or research institution:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Confirmation and request has been made by the dean of that university or the head of that research institution.
(3) In the case of a teacher apprentice or researcher at a private university or research institution, confirmation and request must be made by the government agency concerned.
2.11 In the case of a family member of an alien who has been permitted to stay temporarily in Thailand for study in an educational institution as set out in clauses 2.8 or 2.9 (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted child or the child of his/her spouse):
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);
(2) Proof of family relationship; and (3) In the case of spouse, the marital relationship shall be de jure (legitimate) and de facto; or (4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the applicant, and must be less than 20 years of age; or
(5) In the case of parents, there must be an account deposit with a local bank made in the name of father or mother of not less than Baht 500,000 as shown in bank account transactions for the past 3 months. For the first year, it should have that said amount in the bank account for not less than 30 days at the submitted date of the application.
2.12 In the case of mass media function:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);
(2) Confirmation and request has been made by the Public Relations Department or the Information Department attached to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
2.13 In the case of study of Buddhism or religious function:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
2.14 In the case of a missionary:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
2.15 In the case of a skilled worker or expert in medicine, nursing or other professional for transfer of technology and knowledge to Thais:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 90 days at a time.
2.16 In case of installation or repair of machines, aircraft or ocean vessels:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 90 days at a time.
(1)
The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);
(2)
Confirmation has been issued by the National Buddhism Office or the National Buddhism Office of the Prime Minister’s Office or the Mahachulalongkorn University; and
(3)
Confirmation has been issued by the abbot of the temple where the applicant is studying or performing the religious function.
(1)
The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2)
Confirmation has been given by the Religious Affairs Department of by the National Buddhism Office
(3)
Confirmation and request has been made by the religious organization at which the applicant is stationed.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Confirmation and request has been made by the organization or agency concerned.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Confirmation and request has been made by the organization or agency concerned.
2.17 In the case of a performer in a show,
entertainer, vocalist or
musician performing
at a hotel or engaged
by a company in
Thailand in the
entertainment
business with a
registered capital of
not less than Baht 20
Million, fully paid-up:
Permission will be
granted for a period of
not more than 120
days at a time.
2.18 In the case of a family
member of a Thai(applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child
of his/her spouse):
Permission will be
granted for a period of
not more than 1 year at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM); and
(2) Confirmation of employment given by a hotel or company
engaged in the entertainment business in Thailand with a
registered capital of not less than Baht 20 Million, full paid-up
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Proof of family relationship
(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de
jure (legitimate) and de facto;
(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or
(5) In the case of a parent, one of parents must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.
In other necessary circumstances, The Immigration Commissioner or Deputy of Immigration Commissioner may approve on case to case basis.
(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.
2.19 In the case of a family
member of a permanent residence permit holder
(applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse):
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
2.20 In the case of a family
member of an alien who has been permitted temporary
stay under clauses 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.5, 2.6,2.7, 2.10, 2.12, 2.13,2.4, 2.15, 2.16, 2.17,
2.21, 2.22,2.26,6.29 of this Order (applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child of
his/her spouse):
Permission will be
granted for a period of
not more than 1 year at a time.
2.21 In the case of working
for a public charity organization, private foreign organization, foundation,
association, Foreign Chamber of Commerce, Thailand Board of Trade, or
Thailand Federation
of Industries:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.
In the absence of the official
confirmation set out in clause (3), permission will be granted for a period of not more than 90 days at a time.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)
(2) Proof of family relationship;
(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de
jure (legitimate) and de facto; or
(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or
(5) In the case of a parent, the said person must be 50 years of age
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);
(2) Proof of family relationship;
(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de
jure (legitimate) and de facto; or
(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or
(5) In the case of a parent, the said person shall be 50 years of age or over.
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);
(2) Confirmation and request has been made by the authorized
officer or head of that organization; and/or
(3) Confirmation and request has been made by the chief
government officer division level or equivalent and higher or chief of state enterprise or other chief of government agency who deals with that organization
2.22 In the case of a retiree: Permission will be granted for a period of not more
than 1 year at a time.
2.23 In the case of visiting
family or return of a former Thai national or a person whose father or mother is or
once was a Thai:
Permission will be
granted for a period of
not more than 1 year at a time.
2.24 In the case of an alien
visiting a Thai spouse or child:
Permission
will be granted for a period of not more than 60 days at a time
(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);
(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over;
(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or
(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than
800,000 Baht as shown in the bank account for the past 3 months at the filing date of the application. For the first year, the applicant should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60 days or
(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less
than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application
(6) For an alien who entered Thailand before October 21,
1998 and continuously allowed to stay in the Kingdom as a
retiree, the following shall apply:
(a) He/she must be 60 years of age or over and has regular
income. His/her bank account deposit shall not be less than Baht 200,000 a year and evidence of the account deposit for the
previous 3 months must be shown; or he/she has a monthly income of not less than Baht 20,000.
(b) If he/she is under 60 years of age but not less than 55,
the alien shall have regular income with a bank account deposit of not less than Baht 500,000 a year and evidence of the account deposit for the previous 3 months must be shown, or he/she has a monthly income of not less than 50,000 baht
(1)
Proof of original Thai nationality or of his/her parent being a Thai or once a Thai.
(1) Proof of relationship.
(2) In the case of a spouse, their marital relationship shall be de
jure (legitimate) and de facto.
2.25 In the case of medical
treatment or convalescence or to look after a patient:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 90 days at a time.
2.26 In the case of litigation or judicial proceeding:
Permission will be
granted for a period of
not more than 90 days at a time.
2.27 In the case of performing a duty or task for a government agency or state enterprise or other government agency or embassy or consulate or an
International organization:
Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 90 days at a time.
Except in special circumstances where individuals need could be granted not more than 1 year
2.28 In case of a necessary reason, the embassy or consulate certified and requested.
(1) Permission will be granted not more than 30 days in case of a necessary reason.
(2) Permission will be granted for not more than 90 days if based on training.
(1) Confirmation and request has been made by a physician
responsible for the treatment. The Physician must describe the details of treatment and advised that the illness is a barrier for travelling.
(2) In the case of looking after a patient, confirmation and request has been made by the physician responsible for the treatment or by an embassy or consulate.
(3) Patient Carer, except parents, spouse, children, adopted children or children of spouse, shall be granted no more than 1 extra person.
(1) Proof of involvement in litigation or judicial
proceedings as complainant, the aggrieved party, accused,
plaintiff, defendant or witness.
(1) Confirmation and request has been made by a government
agency at the level of department or equivalent, or police office or government agency attached to the Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters, or the Army, Navy or Air Forces, whose rank of Major General, Navy Major General, Air Force Major general or higher or by the international organization.
(2) In case of applicant needs to stay longer than 90 days, the competent official will request to the Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters or Deputy of the Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters to consider the application.
(1)
Confirmation and request has been made by embassy or consulate.
(2)
Alien who is on training has obtained a temporary visa.
2.29 In the case that proof of nationality.
Permission will be granted not more than 180 days.
2.30 In the case of a performer, a singer, a musician, a conductor or a person who works in entertainment or theatrical, for an occasional performance
Permission will be granted not more than 90 days
2.31 In the case of vehicle controller and vehicle conductor to a station or an area in the Kingdom and I unable to depart the Kingdom.
Permission will be granted not more than 90 days
(1) Confirmation has been made by concerned government agency.
(1) Confirmation and request has been made by concerned private company.
(1) Necessary reasons to be unable to depart are needed.
A
TTACHMENT TO ROYAL THAI POLICE HEADQUARTERS ORDER NO. 777/2551 dated November 25, 2008 Income Table Referred to Clause 2.1 (2)
Nationality
Minimum Income
1. European countries (except Russia), Australia continent, Canada, Japan, and U.S.A.
Baht 50,000/month
2. South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Hong Kong
Baht 45,000/month
3. Asian countries (except Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam), South America continent, Countries in Eastern Europe, Countries in Central America, Mexico, Turkey, Russia and South Africa
Baht 35,000/month
4. African countries (except South Africa), Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam
Baht 25,000/month

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## watterinja

Any mention of the 15 or 30 day border-crossing rule?  :Confused:

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## matsalleh

> link leads to the d/l page and at the bottom of that page is a d/l button press that and it'll save to your computer , it's a .pdf so need adobe or similar to view .
> 
> works here ?



Here (Songkhla) works like a charm, thanks!

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## Fondles

Downloaded and opened fine for me, will have a read later, time for beers.

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## dirtydog



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## dirtydog

Cant find anything about visa exempt 30 days to 15 stamps in there, must admit I didn't bother reading most of it anyway.

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## SEA Traveler

> Why is nobody just posting it here?


thanks Khun Spin.

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## Thetyim

> 


That's a big difference

Husband only must have income not combined as before

400k in bank qualifies for an extension again

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## dirtydog

So the guys who set up companies last year to pay their mrs the salary to show immigration now have to redo everything, ie pay themselves a salary and sort out taxation etc etc, what a foking bunch of clowns these people are.

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## gjbkk

There have been no new new laws passed since october 2006. There is nothing new here. The marriage visa thing is also out of dated unless you were on the system prior to oct 2006, its now 40K a month minimum income, and not a lump sum.

Has this come from thai visa.com?  seems like their old trick to gain traffic and income to sunbelt

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## Mid

> Has this come from thai visa.com?


true that

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## gjbkk

the minimum income of 40K per month can be a combination of both wife or husband income.

If the books are clean there is no problem and tax is paid on the 40K per month, then no problems.

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## Thetyim

> its now 40K a month minimum income, and not a lump sum.


Sorry I don't understand what you are saying.
This document is saying that it has gone back to income or lump sum and is dated 25/11/2008
Are you saying that this is wrong ?

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## gjbkk

unless you were on the system prior to oct 2006, its now 40K a month minimum income, and not a lump sum.

there have been no new official orders that I can see sice october 2006

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## Thetyim

I really don't understand how an immigration lawyer could have made such an error.
I don't know what to believe now

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## dirtydog

> the minimum income of 40K per month can be a combination of both wife or husband income.


Thats what it was for the last year or so, supposedly now it has been changed to husband only.

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## gjbkk

I have looked at their website and I cannot see anything new, best if I look in the morning with less whiskey in my blood, but nothing on google except TV forum

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## Thetyim

The Thai Immigration website is pretty useless and presents little information in English.

These new rules, if true, have not been officially translated into English yet so confirmation will be a while coming

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## dirtydog

The translation wont make much difference anyway, as always it will be how each immigration office reads, understands and implements them.

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## Seekingasylum

> There have been no new new laws passed since october 2006. There is nothing new here. The marriage visa thing is also out of dated unless you were on the system prior to oct 2006, its now 40K a month minimum income, and not a lump sum.
> 
> Has this come from thai visa.com? seems like their old trick to gain traffic and income to sunbelt


One presumes it is the drink talking here? Either that or you are an idiot.

The order is clearly dated 25/11/08 and supersedes the previous relevant orders notably that of 2006.

Husbands can now qualify for a visa of 12 months with a deposit of 400k baht held in a local Thai bank for at least 2 months prior to application. Good news for those under 50 without an income but who do have a bit of dosh.

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## sabang

My status, as someone who was granted a mariage visa (just) before Oct. 2006, is that I only have to show 400K + in the bank- no income requirement, no 2 month requirement for the 400K.

Has that changed?

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## gjbkk

> One presumes it is the drink talking here? Either that or you are an idiot. The order is clearly dated 25/11/08 and supersedes the previous relevant orders notably that of 2006.


I might have had a drink last night but at least I am civil - however from your post you  are nothing more than a คนเส็งเคร็ง 



The order might be dated but there is no reference to it like a National Police Order as far as i can see.

if it has been change then I think thats good, it will help a lot of people.

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## Thetyim

> Husbands can now qualify for a visa of 12 months with a deposit of 400k baht held in a local Thai bank for at least 2 months prior to application.


You mean "extension of stay"   not visa

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## ChiangMai noon

> You mean "extension of stay" not visa


does it not apply to a new visa also?

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## Thetyim

The discussion is about the new regulations 777/2551 which concerns extensions only

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## ChiangMai noon

> The discussion is about the new regulations 777/2551 which concerns extensions only


title needs changing then.
 :Smile:

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## gjbkk

Immigration Bureau


nothing new here

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## klongmaster

> Any mention of the 15 or 30 day border-crossing rule?


Jack Golf confirmed by phone today that 30 days has been reduced to 15 days but the 3 entries rule has been deleted...so if you're from a country which had 30 before you now get 15 days but can enter as many times as you like in a year...

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## ChiangMai noon

> .so if you're from a country which had 30 before you now get 15 days but can enter as many times as you like in a year...


rough with the smooth I suppose.

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## CharleyFarley

With all the faffing paperwork fees, etc, my yearly extension probably costs 12K each year, seems like I can now go across the border 24 times at equivalent cost - 500 baht or $10 each time.

But that money goes to Burma.

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## klongmaster

^^yea give a little take a little...certainly will bump the 'new arrivals' figures so Thailand can show the world that they are not hurting the way other countries are...

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## klongmaster

> With all the faffing paperwork fees, etc, my yearly extension probably costs 12K each year, seems like I can now go across the border 24 times at equivalent cost - 500 baht or $10 each time.


plus the cost of getting there and back...

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## ChiangMai noon

> plus the cost of getting there and back


might move to Mae Sai in a few years time.

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## klongmaster

is the border crossing only 500 baht to Burma?

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## Thetyim

I can envisage some farang ghettos appearing near the Myanmar and Malaysia borders soon

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## lom

> certainly will bump the 'new arrivals' figures so Thailand can show the world that they are not hurting the way other countries are


Hmm, I think there are other more important factors affecting tourism than the new 14 day regulations. 
World wide economic crises, the exchange rate, and the recent turmoil comes to mind.
Don't forget that the majority of tourist arrives by air and stays 2 or 3 weeks.

Samui for instance, has (had) 1 million yearly visitors.
Compare that to an estimate (from one of the visa runs companies here) of around
1100 border runs being done monthly from Samui, and some of them not being visa exempt runs.

Will it have an impact on tourism? 
No, I don't think so.

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## Thetyim

> Don't forget that the majority of tourist arrives by air and stays 2 or 3 weeks.


That sounds like a reasonable figure but the TAT figures for all tourist arrivals quote a very low average stay.
Something like 5 days, which would mean that land border arrivals are very short stayers.
How do they sort the tourists from the smugglers ?

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## klongmaster

^also Tetters arrival by air still gets you 30 days which kind of fcks Lom's theory...

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## lom

^Care to explain which theory it fokks?

If the average tourist stays for 5 days, then 14 days visa exempt is more than enough and 30 days is very generous  :Smile:

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## gjbkk

ok I have found something that offers some info on this

*New visa drama : from 30 days stamps to 15 days at land borders*

Published 5 December 2008 Economy , Tourism

Here we go again The forum ThaiVisa is hot like lava The reason ? A new visa drama of course ! 

From time to time, the thai authorities love to toy with visa regulations To change the rules If possible without warning (its much more sanuk).

This new police order was issued on november 25. 

But the news (in english) came only wednesday In a way its highly ironic to see the thai police playing with visa regulations during a full blown tourism crisis 

By the way :
The TAT is also preparing an advertising campaign called Apologies Thailand, aimed at redressing the damage by the political turmoil and the Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang airport closures. *The agency will use the campaign to send a positive message to tourists around the world, encouraging them to come back to Thailand.* (Nation)The TAT should talk to the police 

As usual, dont try to understand. Because maybe there is _nothing to understand_. AKA : no conspiracy.

So what the new fuss is about ?
30-days border runs now only 15 days
In order to limit the amount of foreigners using back-to-back border runs, Thai Immigration has issued a new regulation regarding the 30 days tourist exemption.

*Effective immediately, travellers without visa will get only 15 days of stay if they are arriving via a land border checkpoint from a neighboring country.*

*Passengers arriving via an international airport will obtain a 30 days stay, and for them there is no change.*

This police order number 778/2551 is today confirmed by Royal Thai Police, Immigration Bureau, in Bangkok.So if youre a poor backpacker enjoying long trips and land borders, or a visa runner, you probably already found the link of the ThaiVisa forum. 

Overall, there is without any doubt a _political will_ to make it harder for foreigners who took for many years some liberties with laws

The problem is : this will is often _muddled_, _incoherent_. And sometimes _hypocrite_ too.

Anyway : times change.

*UPDATE*
Apparently, there are new regulations too for  Extensions Of Non-immigrant Visas (read here).

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## gjbkk

The clause 7.1 (5) seems to be deleted. Before, you had to show some profits and losses, audit, etc.

In case of visa for an investment, the Thai version was not mentionning 3 million baht. The English version was. Now, it's clearly an investment of not less than 3 million. That was 7.4 before.

For teachers, private and public school, it looks like it's the same. BUT BE CAREFUL. The previous police order was mentionning documents required...the new one DOES NOT MENTION DOCUMENTS REQUIRED...but only basis for consideration.

For family there are some modifications:

It looks like the 'support of a child visa' is still there, but there are financial requirements. 40,000 baht income per month for the mother or father, or 400,000 at the bank. But they added a paragraph mentionning that the immigration office has DISCRETION case by case to deliver this visa. No requirement about the age (before there was a requirement of 50 y-o, that was not always applied).

Married with a Thai spouse must show 40,000 baht income per month, or 400,000 baht at the bank 2 months in advance. Before, it was per couple. Now, it's for the foreign spouse (HUSBAND) not sure about a (WIFE). But on the third page of this document, there is a mention on page 3 that the immigration will have *discretion* to apply this clause or not. Same as the previous one. I do believe it's to protect people living here for a long time, with children or a wife, who don't have the requirements. Personal opinion too.

For retirement visa, it's now SPECIFIED that you need 800,000 baht in a local bank account for the FIRST YEAR. Some people were able to get a one year retirement visa abroad without showing money and the second year, for their extension, had to put 800,000 baht 3 months in advance. The rest seems to be as before.

The annex at the end, (this annex is the salarial requirement for foreigners having an extension based on business) The amounts the same with some specifications. For the first category, the put an exception on Europe about RUSSIA (not included). Russia was in the third category and Europe was in one. No more confusion!

Second is the same.

The fourth, the specified that South Africa is excluded and is in the third category. (Same as Russia). But it was also before in the third...

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## Thetyim

> If the average tourist stays for 5 days,


I am questioning that figure.
If a malaysian drives across the border everyday of his life is he classed as a tourist.?
He may be arriving with a tankful of petrol and leaving with a bottle of LPG

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## Thetyim

^^
Sorry complete bollocks gjbkk

Nothing to do with VISA  only affects EXTENSIONS

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## Thetyim

> Now, it's clearly an investment of not less than 3 million.


3 million if you are grandfathered
10 million for new applicants

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## lom

> I am questioning that figure.


So am I because it doesn't match with the tourists I meet here.
Phuket, with charter flights from Europe, ought to have the same type of
tourists as Samui or maybe even more of the longer staying ones.

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## EmperorTud

> Will it have an impact on tourism? No, I don't think so.


It certainly will have an effect on tourists travelling overland throughout the SEA region.

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## lom

> It certainly will have an effect on tourists traveling overland throughout the SEA region.


Yes, they'll have to pop into a Thai embassy/consulate on their way and get a tourist visa if they want to stay more than 14 days.
That is the price that they have to pay because others have abused the system. :Sad:

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## Thetyim

> It certainly will have an effect on tourists travelling overland throughout the SEA region.


Yes it will, but how will they evaluate it because some tourists won't come and some will pass through twice?

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## gjbkk

> ^^ Sorry complete bollocks gjbkk Nothing to do with VISA only affects EXTENSIONS


 
someone might need this extra information it is part of the This police order number 778/2551

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## Thetyim

778/2551 ?

So there have been two police orders  777 & 778
Got a link to the English translation ?

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## gjbkk

it is odd that it has not been on Thailand's English Language Law Resource

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## gjbkk

I cant find any English translation

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## lom

> Got a link to the English translation ?


No official English translations available.
777 is about annual extensions and has been translated by Isaan Lawyers.
It was posted here on TD yesterday.

778 is about visa exemtions and has not been translated.

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## EmperorTud

> Yes, they'll have to pop into a Thai embassy/consulate on their way and get a tourist visa if they want to stay more than 14 days.


Can't do that in Cambodia so further inconvenience for overland travellers.

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## lom

> Can't do that in Cambodia so further inconvenience for overland travellers.


Do you know that for sure ET?
All the reports so far about consulates/embassies not issuing certain kinds of visa
comes from visa-runners.
It would be interesting to know how they treat a real backpacker who can show
from passport stamps that he is traveling the region.
His stamps will then not be pages and pages of Thai visa stamps.. :Smile: 


Anyway, it ain't that difficult for backpackers to show a bit of foresight and get
a tourist visa in their home country.
Most will be able to get a double tourist visa there instead of a single during the
travel.

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## EmperorTud

> Do you know that for sure ET?


100% sure.

To my current knowledge all non-Khmers are refused tourist visas in the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh.




> It would be interesting to know how they treat a real backpacker who can show from passport stamps that he is traveling the region.


I was at the Embassy personally about 9 months ago and in Phnom Penh most recently last week. Nothing has changed, genuine tourist or not, no tourist visa will be issued.
I witnessed many nationalities being refused, including Czech, Indian, German and Japanese. All genuine tourists.

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## Thetyim

> 100% sure.


Beggars the question - why ?
It is hindering tourism
Are they waiting for tea money ?

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## Seekingasylum

Perhaps it is a question of resourcing?

If they were to issue visas then it would become a magnet for the visa runners who currently traipse elsewhere and the consulate would inevitably have to staff it accordingly. The fragility of Thai/Khmer relations is such that the Thai may not wish to raise their profile unnecessarily.

The tinkering of the land border visa issue, reducing the 30 days to 15, is quite logical and clearly aimed at the residual visa running class who are not inclined to seek clearance more in keeping with their closet de facto residence, whether that has been by choice or by necessity. One couldn't criticise them for that and I can't see how the bona fide tourist will be inconvenienced as a consequence.

Apologies if I offended you GJBkk but you were being a bit of an arse.

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## EmperorTud

> I can't see how the bona fide tourist will be inconvenienced as a consequence.


The bona fide tourist that is spending several months in the region backpacking or just travelling overland will just need to plan ahead and possibly spend more time in Cambodia, Viet Nam and other surrounding countries.

Thailand's loss will be the others' gain, and as the central and most popular backpacking country in the region it has the most to lose. 

It will still be the region's jumping off point, which is unfortunate with the current political climate and the risk of more protests closing the airports again.

Thailand seems to be forgetting it was the backpackers that sustained tourism and opened it up for everyone else.

Where all of these rich tourists who stay in spas and spend money with gay abandon are going to come from I certainly don't know. The global economic crisis has put the kibosh on that market.

Thailand's problem is it thinks its shit doesn't stink and is arrogant enough to assume tourists will come regardless of what is happening internationally and domestically.

I believe they are wrong and they will come to regret marginalising what used to be their bread and butter longer term travellers.

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## MeMock

So what countries still get 30 days?

Richard from the wrong way cafe here in Ubon told me two nights ago that he drove back from Laos and they gave him 30 days but warned him that next time it would be 15.

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## Mid

> So what countries still get 30 days?


wrong thread ,

now that aside the 30/15 day thing is dependent on whether you arrive at the airport V's land border crossing

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## Thetyim

^
Correct with the possible exception of Malaysia 
Won't know for sure until we get a full translation

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## sunderlandstephen

Am visiting Thailand 15th dec - 14th jan
I`ve got flight to Luang Prabang booked on the 19th,intend to travel to Vientiane via Vang Vienand cross back to Thailand there.
My problem is where do i stand if i`ve got more than 15 days left , intend to spend some time in Issan and maybe a beach somewhere else,if time permits, will have a 30 day visa from the 15th but the visa from the land crossing will be the valid one as far as i know.
Grateful if anybody can clear this up

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## lom

^ Get a 60 day tourist visa while you are in Vientiane

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## Thetyim

The new rules have just ruined your plans.

lom's suggestion will work
or as you plan to be travelling in Issan will you be near a border crossing on 1/1/2009 ?
Nip over the border (need another visa for that) and then get another 15 day stay when you re-enter Thailand

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## Sparky

At the end of the day what is the point of all the visa changes ??? Its not difficult the question is fairly simple Do they or do they not want tourists and people who want to retire or stay on a longer term basis ??  If the answer is no its simple just cash in and go somwhere else .

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## spiff

> The bona fide tourist that is spending several months in the region backpacking or just travelling overland will just need to plan ahead and possibly spend more time in Cambodia, Viet Nam and other surrounding countries.


Plan ahead yes, they'd have to get a visa in advance.

But if someone chooses to stay longer elsewhere if 1.000bt for a visa is too large an expense for them, one might rightly say "good riddance". 
Let them fill the 2$ dormitory accomodation in Cambodia and haggle over the price of a plate of fried rice there.  :Very Happy:

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## Mid

> Let them fill the 2$ dormitory accomodation in Cambodia and haggle over the price of a plate of fried rice there.


some are short-sighted and others simply blind .

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## watterinja

> At the end of the day what is the point of all the visa changes ??? Its not difficult the question is fairly simple Do they or do they not want tourists and people who want to retire or stay on a longer term basis ??  If the answer is no its simple just cash in and go somwhere else .


That's about the strength of it...  :Sad:

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## good2bhappy

good news if you are a dad but not married.
Proof of 40k income per month
Looks like I can get a non Im O in Penang by just showing my UK share portfolia data, tabien baan and kids birth certificates.
Will give it a try later this month

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## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by gjbkk
> 
> 
> There have been no new new laws passed since october 2006. There is nothing new here. The marriage visa thing is also out of dated unless you were on the system prior to oct 2006, its now 40K a month minimum income, and not a lump sum.
> 
> Has this come from thai visa.com? seems like their old trick to gain traffic and income to sunbelt
> 
> 
> One presumes it is the drink talking here? Either that or you are an idiot.
> ...


 
he did say that he was on the whisky

mind you, that does not rule out being an idiot

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## klongmaster

> Any mention of the 15 or 30 day border-crossing rule?


I crossed today 10-12-08 from Cham Yeam (Cambodia) to Had Lek (Thailand) and got 30 days...Casino Run!..

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## keda

> good news if you are a dad but not married.
> Proof of 40k income per month
> Looks like I can get a non Im O in Penang by just showing my UK share portfolia data, tabien baan and kids birth certificates.
> Will give it a try later this month


I tried that, and also other UK investments, but they want to smell the money closer home, so I offered my SET portfolio of well over the deposit and longer than their 3 months of their interest, but they wouldn't go for that either. Nothing lost in trying, though, so good luck. :Wink:

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## lom

> I was at the Embassy personally about 9 months ago and in Phnom Penh most recently last week. Nothing has changed, genuine tourist or not, no tourist visa will be issued. I witnessed many nationalities being refused, including Czech, Indian, German and Japanese. All genuine tourists.


Spoke to one guy today who got a single entry tourist visa in Pnom Phen less than a week ago.
No questions asked and no tea money changing hand.

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## Thetyim

^
Agreed
Have read that things have changed at PP
Several first hand accounts that TR are now being issued

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