#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > World News >  >  Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance

## misskit

LONDON (Reuters) - Former Russian spy Sergei Skripal, who was convicted by Russia of betraying agents to British intelligence, was critically ill on Monday after exposure to an unidentified substance in Britain, two sources close to the investigation told Reuters.

British police said two people, a 66-year-old man and a 33-year-old woman, had been found unconscious on a bench in a shopping center on Sunday in the southern English city of Salisbury after exposure to the unknown substance.


Both are critically ill in intensive care. Police declared a major incident.


Skripal, once a colonel in Russias GRU military intelligence service, was convicted in Russia of treason in 2006 but exchanged as part of a Cold War-style spy swap in 2010 on the tarmac of Vienna airport. Skripal is 66 years old.


British police did not release the names of those who were being treated but two sources close to the investigation told Reuters that the critically ill man was Skripal. It was unclear what the substance was, they said.


This has not been declared as a counter-terrorism incident and we would urge people not to speculate, Wiltshire polices Temporary Assistant Chief Constable Craig Holden told reporters.


However, I must emphasize that we retain an open mind, and that we continue to review this position.


Relations between Britain and Russia have been strained since the murder of ex-KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko with radioactive polonium-210 in London in 2006, a killing which a British inquiry said was probably approved by President Vladimir Putin.


The Kremlin has repeatedly denied any involvement in the killing.


Litvinenko, 43, an outspoken critic of Putin who fled Russia for Britain six years to the day before he was poisoned, died after drinking green tea laced with the rare and very potent radioactive isotope at Londons Millennium Hotel.


It took some time for British doctors to discern the cause of Litvinenkos illness.


*SPY SWAP*Skripal, who was arrested in 2004 by Russias Federal Security Service (FSB) on suspicion of betraying dozens of Russian agents to British intelligence, was sentenced to 13 years in prison in 2006.


But he was later pardoned in 2010 by then-President Dmitry Medvedev as part of a spy swap to bring 10 Russian agents held in the United States back to Moscow.


The swap, one of the biggest since the Cold War ended in 1991, took place on the tarmac of Vienna airport where a Russian and a U.S. jet parked side by side before the agents were exchanged.


One of the Russian spies exchanged for Skripal was Anna Chapman, who was greeted as a hero by the Kremlin. She was one of 10 spies who tried to blend in to American society in an apparent bid to get close to power brokers and learn secrets. They were arrested by the FBI in 2010.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1GH2UX

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## Klondyke

> British police did not release the names...


but RT did :

*Russian man who spied for UK ‘critically ill’ after exposure to unknown substance – reports*
Published time: 5 Mar, 2018

https://www.rt.com/news/420542-serge...ent-salisbury/
(however, who can believe RT?)

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## Hugh Cow

> but RT did :
> 
> *Russian man who spied for UK ‘critically ill’ after exposure to unknown substance – reports*
> Published time: 5 Mar, 2018
> 
> https://www.rt.com/news/420542-serge...ent-salisbury/
> (however, who can believe RT?)


Vlads mouthpiece giving a warning perhaps?

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## Neverna

Pies. Bloody British pies. That's what did it.

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## harrybarracuda

> Vlads mouthpiece giving a warning perhaps?


Got their information straight from the SVR daily task list no doubt.

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## baldrick

I wonder how paranoid vlad is these days - what is the soviet equivalent of drumpfs KFC meals ?

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## harrybarracuda

> I wonder how paranoid vlad is these days - what is the soviet equivalent of drumpfs KFC meals ?

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## david44

No one likes a grass, looks like the daughter led them straight to him

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## rickschoppers

He knew too much and now the Ruskies are taking care of him.

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## david44

Yep you know when you've been miserabled by Putin

List of people Putin is suspected of assassinating - Business Insider

*Alexander Litvinenko*Alexander Litvinenko.via The Telegraph
Alexander Litvinenko was a former KGB agent who died three weeks after drinking a cup of tea at a London hotel that had been laced with deadly polonium-210.
A British inquiry foundthat Litvinenko was poisoned by FSB agents Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitry Kovtun, who were acting on orders that had "probably approved by Mr Patrushev and also by President Putin."
Litvinenko was very critical of Putin, accusing him of, among other things, blowing up an apartment block and ordering the murder of journalist Anna Politkovskaya.
*Anna Politkovskaya*Anna Politkovskaya was a Russian journalist who was critical of Putin. In her book "Putin's Russia," she accused Putin of turning his country into a police state. She was murdered by contract killers who shot her at point blank range in the lift outside her flat.
Five men were convicted of her murder, but the judge found that it was a contract killing, with $150,000 paid by "a person unknown."
A picture of slain journalist Anna Politkovskaya is shown during a candlelight vigil in front of the Russian Embassy.Mark Wilson/Getty Images
*Natalia Estemirova*Natalia Estemirova was a journalist who sometimes worked with Politkovskaya.
She specialised in uncovering human-rights abuses carried out by the Russian state in Chechnya.
She was abducted from outside her home and later found in nearby woodland with gunshot wounds to her head. No one has been convicted of her murder.
*Stanislav Markelov and Anastasia Baburova*Human-rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov represented Politkovskaya and other journalists who had been critical of Putin.
He was shot by a masked gunman near the Kremlin. Journalist Anastasia Baburova, who was walking with him, was also shot when she tried to help him.
Boris Nemtsov speaks at a news conference on "Corruption and Abuse in Sochi Olympics."Alex Wong/Getty Images
*Boris Nemtsov*Boris Nemtsov was a former deputy prime minister of Russia under Boris Yeltsin who went on to become a big critic of Putin — accusing himof being in the pay of oligarchs.
He was shot four times in the back just yards from the Kremlin as he walked home from a restaurant. Despite Putin taking "personal control" of the investigation into Nemtsov's murder, the killer has not been found.
*Boris Berezovsky*Boris Berezovsky was a Russian oligarch who fled to Britain after he fell out with Putin. During his exile he threatened to bring down Putin by force. He was found dead at his Berkshire home in March 2013 in an apparent suicide, although an inquest into his death recorded an open verdict.
Berezovsky was found dead inside a locked bathroom with a ligature around his neck. The coroner couldn't explain how he had died.
The British police had on several occasions investigated alleged assassination attempts against him.
Boris Berezovsky wears a mask showing the face of Russia's President Vladimir Putin, as he leaves Bow Street Magistrates Court.Graeme Robertson/Getty Images
*Paul Klebnikov*Paul Klebnikov was the chief editor of the Russian edition of Forbes. He had written about corruption and dug into the lives of wealthy Russians.
He was killed in a drive-by shooting in an apparent contract killing.
*Sergei Yushenkov*Sergei Yushenkov was a Russian politician who was attempting to prove the Russian state was behind the bombing of an apartment block.
He was killed in an assassination by a single shot to the chest just hours after his political organisation, Liberal Russia, had been recognised by the Justice Ministry as a party.

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## david44

Yep you know when you've been miserabled by Putin

List of people Putin is suspected of assassinating - Business Insider

*Alexander Litvinenko*

Alexander Litvinenko.via The Telegraph
Alexander Litvinenko was a former KGB agent who died three weeks after drinking a cup of tea at a London hotel that had been laced with deadly polonium-210.
A British inquiry foundthat Litvinenko was poisoned by FSB agents Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitry Kovtun, who were acting on orders that had "probably approved by Mr Patrushev and also by President Putin."
Litvinenko was very critical of Putin, accusing him of, among other things, blowing up an apartment block and ordering the murder of journalist Anna Politkovskaya.
*Anna Politkovskaya*

Anna Politkovskaya was a Russian journalist who was critical of Putin. In her book "Putin's Russia," she accused Putin of turning his country into a police state. She was murdered by contract killers who shot her at point blank range in the lift outside her flat.
Five men were convicted of her murder, but the judge found that it was a contract killing, with $150,000 paid by "a person unknown."
A picture of slain journalist Anna Politkovskaya is shown during a candlelight vigil in front of the Russian Embassy.Mark Wilson/Getty Images
*Natalia Estemirova*

Natalia Estemirova was a journalist who sometimes worked with Politkovskaya.
She specialised in uncovering human-rights abuses carried out by the Russian state in Chechnya.
She was abducted from outside her home and later found in nearby woodland with gunshot wounds to her head. No one has been convicted of her murder.
*Stanislav Markelov and Anastasia Baburova*

Human-rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov represented Politkovskaya and other journalists who had been critical of Putin.
He was shot by a masked gunman near the Kremlin. Journalist Anastasia Baburova, who was walking with him, was also shot when she tried to help him.
Boris Nemtsov speaks at a news conference on "Corruption and Abuse in Sochi Olympics."Alex Wong/Getty Images
*Boris Nemtsov*

Boris Nemtsov was a former deputy prime minister of Russia under Boris Yeltsin who went on to become a big critic of Putin  accusing himof being in the pay of oligarchs.
He was shot four times in the back just yards from the Kremlin as he walked home from a restaurant. Despite Putin taking "personal control" of the investigation into Nemtsov's murder, the killer has not been found.
*Boris Berezovsky*

Boris Berezovsky was a Russian oligarch who fled to Britain after he fell out with Putin. During his exile he threatened to bring down Putin by force. He was found dead at his Berkshire home in March 2013 in an apparent suicide, although an inquest into his death recorded an open verdict.
Berezovsky was found dead inside a locked bathroom with a ligature around his neck. The coroner couldn't explain how he had died.
The British police had on several occasions investigated alleged assassination attempts against him.
Boris Berezovsky wears a mask showing the face of Russia's President Vladimir Putin, as he leaves Bow Street Magistrates Court.Graeme Robertson/Getty Images
*Paul Klebnikov*

Paul Klebnikov was the chief editor of the Russian edition of Forbes. He had written about corruption and dug into the lives of wealthy Russians.
He was killed in a drive-by shooting in an apparent contract killing.
*Sergei Yushenkov*

Sergei Yushenkov was a Russian politician who was attempting to prove the Russian state was behind the bombing of an apartment block.
He was killed in an assassination by a single shot to the chest just hours after his political organisation, Liberal Russia, had been recognised by the Justice Ministry as a party.

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## harrybarracuda

> No one likes a grass, looks like the daughter led them straight to him


Huh?

Link?

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## david44

Woman found 'poisoned' alongside Russian spy named as his daughter | Metro News\

He ‘was doing some strange hand movements’ as the woman sat next to him on a bench was slumped on his shoulder. Witnesses told how it appeared Skripal and the woman, who was known to him, ‘had been taking something quite strong’. Reports emerged today the Skripal’s wife and son have been killed in recent years.

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2018/03/06/woman-...8/?ito=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

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## Wilsonandson



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## Wilsonandson



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## david44

Good to see folks of Salisbury have right priorities, stuff eggs Benedict Arnold, Stakeknife and the Clancy's

But far from perturbed by the activity unfolding around them, residents and workers simply zigzag around the cordons.
People are more worried about the local pie shop being closed, says Leuene Jackman, peering over the police tape at the forensics team.

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## buriramboy

As if Russia would be so stupid to take out an x military officer with some poison in the UK knowing the blame is going to be directly pointed at them. Same with all anti Russian propaganda from those who want war they never provide any evidence though. 

Why do people actually want wars, that is the question you have to ask. What type of brain dead numbskull gets off on dropping bombs or firing missiles from thousands of miles away at people, most of whom will be killed will be innocent? Obviously Americans need not answer. 

Can't you dumb fuks of whatever nationality who want wars go find your own island and go have some mano mano unarmed combat and leave the other 6.9 billion of us out of it.

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## harrybarracuda

> As if Russia would be so stupid to take out an x military officer with some poison in the UK knowing the blame is going to be directly pointed at them. Same with all anti Russian propaganda from those who want war they never provide any evidence though.


Au contraire. It could equally well be Putin saying "I can do what I fucking like and you can't do jack shit ner ner ne ner ner".

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## buriramboy

> Au contraire. It could equally well be Putin saying "I can do what I fucking like and you can't do jack shit ner ner ne ner ner".


You seem to be confusing Putin with American foreign policy over the last 30 years. 

Russia wants to trade and be economically viable but ever since they got rid of the alcoholic US puppet Yeltsin the West or rather the US has decided that Russia is some big bad enemy again and let's all have a new cold war.

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## misskit

Some background information on Skripal.


*A hundred grand and hundreds of betrayed agents

What was former GRU Colonel Sergey Skripal's treason against Russia?*https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/03/06/a-hundred-grand-and-hundreds-of-betrayed-agents

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## Klondyke

Luckily, we are not bothered with the thousands poisoning yearly, only when it happens to a pitiful spy... 

I am sobbing the whole day and the righteous Boris with me...  

_CDC estimates Salmonella causes about 1.2 million illnesses, 23,000 hospitalizations, and 450 deaths in the United States every year. Food is the source for about 1 million of these illnesses.

Most persons infected with Salmonella develop diarrhea, fever, and abdominal cramps 12 to 72 hours after infection. The illness usually lasts 4 to 7 days, and most persons recover without treatment.

However, in some persons, the diarrhea may be so severe that the patient needs to be hospitalized.

_https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/index.html

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## AntRobertson

Nice red herring. Hope it doesn't contain botulism.

Kinda odd how so many critics of Putin and Russian dissidents end up dead innit.

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## Klondyke

Yesterday the CNN run the whole day a debate: How the West will do when it's found that the Russians poisoned their spy? 
I am afraid that a WW3 will be declared... :Smile: 
(The Troy War had at least a good reason: a beautiful Helen...)

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## Klondyke

> Nice red herring.


...and another red moroning for me by bsnub..

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## Neo

> He knew too much and now the Ruskies are taking care of him.


He had previously been jailed in Russia for 4 years and then released as part of an exchange program, clearly then not considered a threat. 

Oh the hysteria  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## harrybarracuda

> You seem to be confusing Putin with American foreign policy over the last 30 years. 
> 
> Russia wants to trade and be economically viable but ever since they got rid of the alcoholic US puppet Yeltsin the West or rather the US has decided that Russia is some big bad enemy again and let's all have a new cold war.


What stops them trading and being economically viable then?

Oh, would that be the sanctions for their constant breaches of international law and standards such as state sponsored hacking and invading neighbouring countries/propping up genocidal dictators?

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## kmart

> What stops them trading and being economically viable then?
> 
> Oh, would that be the sanctions for their constant breaches of international law and standards such as state sponsored hacking and invading neighbouring countries/propping up genocidal dictators?


Against the "moderate rebels" backed by our lot, you mean?

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## Neo

ol' harry getting all frothy at the mouth.. such a boner for Putin  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Unless it was some bizarre suicide pact it has the makings of a false flag op.. crank up the Russiaphobia and get rid of a costly ex-useful asset at the same time. 

 ::chitown::

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## david44

Perhaps he choked on a pie sent to the orphans of Salisbury re-sold at Zizzi's?

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## harrybarracuda

> Against the "moderate rebels" backed by our lot, you mean?


The ones he's been sneakily bombing the shit out of in addition to IS, yes.

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## harrybarracuda

> ol' harry getting all frothy at the mouth.. such a boner for Putin 
> 
> Unless it was some bizarre suicide pact it has the makings of a false flag op.. crank up the Russiaphobia and get rid of a costly ex-useful asset at the same time.



Mentions frothing at the mouth.

Comes out with Alex Jones style "It's a false flag!" conspiracy theory.

 ::chitown:: 


Of course our resident harmless loon might be right and they just ate the wrong pie.

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## harrybarracuda

> Police officers have confirmed that a nerve agent was used in an attempt to kill former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter.
> 
> A police officer who responded to the incident is also seriously ill.


Well that narrows down the suspect list.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8244571.html

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## harrybarracuda

> I am Kier Pritchard, Temporary Chief Constable of Wiltshire Police.
> As you are aware, the Counter Terrorism Policing  network are leading the investigation concerning a man and a woman who were taken seriously ill in Salisbury on Sunday.
> This has now been declared as a major incident involving attempted murder by the administration of a nerve agent.


https://www.wiltshire.police.uk/arti...major-incident

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## Neverna

Who dunnit? North Koreans? Israelis? Mafia?

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## david44

> Who dunnit? North Koreans? Israelis? Mafia?



Those luxury loft conversions don't come cheap

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## misskit

*Britain says former Russian spy poisoned with nerve agent*SALISBURY, England (Reuters) - A nerve agent was used to deliberately poison a former Russian double agent and his daughter, Britain’s top counter-terrorism officer said on Wednesday, in a case that threatens to further damage London’s ties with Moscow.

Sergei Skripal, once a colonel in Russia’s GRU military intelligence service, and his 33-year-old daughter, Yulia, were found slumped unconscious on a bench outside a shopping center in the southern English city of Salisbury on Sunday afternoon.


Both remain critically ill and a police officer who attended the scene is also in a serious condition in hospital.


“This is being treated as a major incident involving attempted murder by administration of a nerve agent,” London Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley told reporters. “I can also confirm that we believe the two people originally who became unwell were targeted specifically.”


Rowley said government scientists had identified the specific nerve agent but he would not say what it was because it was part of the investigation. He also declined to give any details about how it was administered to Skripal, 66, and his daughter.


England’s chief medical officer said the incident posed a low risk to the wider public but anyone feeling unwell was advised to seek medical advice.


While Rowley would not say any more about the investigation, a U.S. security source, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the main line of police inquiry was that Russians may have used the substance against Skripal in revenge for his treachery.


Skripal betrayed dozens of Russian agents to British intelligence before his arrest by Russian authorities in 2004.


He was sentenced to 13 years in prison in 2006 after a secret trial and in 2010 was given refuge in Britain after being exchanged for Russian spies caught in the West as part of a Cold War-style spy swap at Vienna airport.


On Tuesday, British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said if Moscow were behind the incident then Britain could look again at sanctions and take other measures to punish Russia, which he cast as a “malign and disruptive” state.


Russia denied any involvement, scolded Johnson for “wild” comments and said anti-Russian hysteria was being whipped up intentionally to damage relations with London.


“It’s very hard not to assess this (speculation) as provocative black PR designed to complicate relations between our two countries,” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told reporters in Moscow on Wednesday.


Malcolm Sperrin, a professor at the Institute of Physics and Engineering in Medicine, said nerve agents could cause heart failure, respiratory arrest, twitching or spasms.


“I’m not aware of a nerve agent having been used in this way previously,” he said.


Britain has specifically drawn parallels with the 2006 murder of ex-KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko who was killed with the radioactive polonium-210 in London.



Russia denied involvement in the death of Litvinenko, which the British inquiry said had been hatched by the Federal Security Service (FSB), main successor to the Soviet-era KGB.


Litvinenko’s murder sent Britain’s ties with Russia to what was then a post-Cold War low. Relations suffered further from Russia’s annexation of Crimea and its military backing for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.


Former British defense minister Michael Fallon called for a stronger response if it turned out that Russia had been involved in the Skripal affair.


“We’ve got to respond more effectively than we did last time over Litvinenko. Our response then clearly wasn’t strong enough,” Fallon told Reuters. “We need to deter Russia from believing they can get away with attacks like this on our streets if it’s proved.”


The British capital has been dubbed “Londongrad” due to the large quantities of Russian money which have poured in since the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union. It is the Western city of choice for many oligarchs from the former Soviet Union.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1GJ0SX

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## Neo

> Comes out with Alex Jones style "It's a false flag!" conspiracy theory.


I don't need to be a tin foil wing bat to question why Russia would carry out such a blatantly public attempt at murder at a time when relations between Russia and the West are so tense. If Russia really want him dead then a midnight burglary with blunt force trauma would suffice. 

Why would Russia attempt to kill him and his daughter in broad daylight with nerve agent? Its just too outlandish and clearly has created much hysteria. This attempted murder gains Russia nothing and only escalates anti Russian rhetoric. Who gains from that? 

You don't believe the American lapdog is willing to murder people to demonize its enemies and maintain US/UK hegemony.?

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## misskit

It would seem more likely Skirpal's Russian former co-workers would have done it. The people he betrayed would have plenty reason to settle their grudge with or without permission from high.

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## AntRobertson

> I don't need to be a tin foil wing bat to question why Russia would carry out such a blatantly public attempt at murder 
> 
> [...]
> 
> You don't believe the American lapdog is willing to murder people to demonize its enemies and maintain US/UK hegemony.?


Err...

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## baldrick

> why Russia would carry out such a blatantly public attempt at murder


maybe , just maybe , it is a warning to others

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## harrybarracuda

> maybe , just maybe , it is a warning to others


And Putin playing his usual game of saying all the other countries are looking for excuses to have a go at Russia and he's the only one who can keep them at bay.

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## harrybarracuda

> It would seem more likely Skirpal's Russian former co-workers would have done it. The people he betrayed would have plenty reason to settle their grudge with or without permission from high.


I doubt any of them would use what is clearly a state produced nerve agent without it being sanctioned from above.

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## harrybarracuda

> I don't need to be a tin foil wing bat


Oh I know, you can do it for fun as well.

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## david44

Sems only 2 possible perps

Putin or MI6, he was of no further use as a grass , murdering him in public and pointing finger at the Russians to keep uncle Sam happy as the isles sink into a no mates sunset.I doubt we'll ever know, Steele, Trump will all be thrown into the mix to muddy the waters.

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## Neo

> maybe , just maybe , it is a warning to others


Those 'others' would infer just as much from a break in and beating to death. Clearly from the outcome this is  aimed at provoking maximum hysteria among the masses.

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## Neo

> It would seem more likely Skirpal's Russian former co-workers would have done it. The people he betrayed would have plenty reason to settle their grudge with or without permission from high.


A rare moment of lucidity from the Voice of America. 

Listen up Harry, your master has spoken  :Smile:

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## Klondyke

At least, it makes our brains busy - and our thought and prayers -  so not to think about other hundreds awful deaths at other side of world - not being investigated by Scotland Yard and and...

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## harrybarracuda

> A rare moment of lucidity from the Voice of America. 
> 
> Listen up Harry, your master has spoken


See my response above you grovelling putin apologist.

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## bsnub

> I don't need to be a tin foil wing bat to question why Russia would carry out such a blatantly public attempt at murder at a time when relations between Russia and the West are so tense. If Russia really want him dead then a midnight burglary with blunt force trauma would suffice.


You really are an idiot.




> maybe , just maybe , it is a warning to others




That is how mafioso crime hits work. Anyone that thinks Russia is anything other than a nation ruled by a mafia cabal is an idiot. (see above)  :Smile:

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## Klondyke

How heart-breaking from the Brits. They usually hate Russians, however, not the residing oligarchs and not the spies defecting

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## Neo

> grovelling putin apologist


It's just all so black and white with you eh harry... 
I don't apologise for Putin, I feel sorry for the spoon fed sheep that are being manipulated and put in fear by their own governments, just to keep the arms industry afloat. You're the one that's fixated on Putin.

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## harrybarracuda

> How heart-breaking from the Brits. They usually hate Russians, however, not the residing oligarchs and not the spies defecting


Does anyone understand what this idiot is on about?

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## cyrille

Seems like a drunk looking for a bite most of the time.

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## david44

The obvious solution to arm everyone in the UK with Sam Fox missiles

Fortunately M has armed Cy with all the latest gear and the assailants will be tugged off in the final reel

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## harrybarracuda

> It's just all so black and white with you eh harry... 
> I don't apologise for Putin, I feel sorry for the spoon fed sheep that are being manipulated and put in fear by their own governments, just to keep the arms industry afloat. You're the one that's fixated on Putin.


Unfortunately the "poor hard done by Russia/Britain is an American lapdog" nonsense rather easily gives your silly game away.

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## Neo

yaaaaawn

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## bsnub

> silly game away.


More like the Putin/RT/Sputnik/infowars propaganda machine and neo laps it all up like the lemming he is.

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## misskit

*If Russia role in nerve attack proved, Britain will respond: PM May*LONDON (Reuters) - Britain will respond appropriately if evidence shows Moscow sponsored a nerve agent attack on a Russian ex-spy and his daughter in southern England, Prime Minister Theresa May said on Thursday, in the highest-level warning of action to date.


Former double agent Sergei Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, have been in hospital since they were found unconscious on Sunday on a bench outside a shopping center in the quiet cathedral city of Salisbury.


British media and some politicians have speculated that the Russian state could be behind the attack - suggestions dismissed by Moscow as knee-jerk, anti-Russian propaganda.


“We will do what is appropriate, we will do what is right, if it is proved to be the case that this is state-sponsored,” May told ITV News, when asked whether Britain could expel the Russian ambassador over the attack.


“But let’s give the police the time and space to actually conduct their investigation,” she added, in her first comments on the attack since police said on Wednesday a nerve agent was used.


“Of course if action needs to be taken then the government will do that. We’ll do that properly, at the right time, and on the basis of the best evidence,” she said.


Scientific tests by government experts have identified the specific substance used, which will help identify the source, but authorities have refused to disclose the details.


Both victims remain unconscious, in a critical but stable condition, while a British police officer who was also harmed by the substance is now able to talk to people although he remains in a serious condition, interior minister Amber Rudd said.


“The use of a nerve agent on UK soil is a brazen and reckless act. This was attempted murder in the most cruel and public way,” Rudd told parliament in a statement.


“But if we are to be rigorous in this investigation, we must avoid speculation and allow the police to carry on their investigation.”


Despite her call, several lawmakers pointed the finger at Russia during their questions to Rudd, with some calling for investigations to be re-opened into the deaths of Russian exiles in Britain in recent years.


Rudd rebuffed them, urging people to keep a cool head and saying the focus should remain on the Salisbury incident.


“We will respond in a robust and appropriate manner once we ascertain who was responsible,” she said. “We are committed to do all we can to bring the perpetrators to justice, whoever they are and wherever they may be.”


*DOUBLE AGENT*Skripal betrayed dozens of Russian agents to British intelligence before his arrest by Russian authorities in 2004. He was sentenced to 13 years in prison in 2006, and in 2010 was given refuge in Britain after being exchanged for Russian spies.


The attack on him has been likened in Britain to the assassination of ex-KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko, a critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin, who died in London in 2006 after drinking green tea laced with radioactive polonium-210.


A British public inquiry later said Litvinenko’s murder had probably been approved by Putin and carried out by two Russians, Dmitry Kovtun and Andrei Lugovoy, an ex-KGB bodyguard who later became a member of parliament.


Both men denied any responsibility and Russia has refused to extradite them to stand trial.


Rudd was pressed during a BBC radio interview earlier on whether Britain had been too soft on Russia following the Litvinenko murder, sending out a message that such acts could be carried out with impunity.


She denied this and hinted that if Russia turned out to be implicated in the attack on Skripal, action would be taken against it.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1GK1BW

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## Klondyke

^I think all the Russian defectors and the ones like Navalny will be now very afraid for their life (however not from the Russian side...)

The same for the NK defectors...

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## harrybarracuda

> ^I think all the Russian defectors and the ones like Navalny will be now very afraid for their life (however not from the Russian side...)


Well here we go, Klondyke has solved the case and it's not the Russians.

Best fire off an email to the PM then, fucknuts.

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## OhOh

> Oh, would that be the sanctions for their constant breaches of international law and standards such as state sponsored hacking and invading neighbouring countries/propping up genocidal dictators?


Care to list which countries actually do not breach the said unproven allegations with respect to Russia?

----------


## OhOh

> Klondyke has solved the case and it's not the Russians.


Time for a few pints down at the The Kings head Arms for TD CID.



(20 years JDW shareholder)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Care to list which countries actually do not breach the said unproven allegations with respect to Russia?


I'd suggest you google _"Countries with sanctions against them for breaching international law and standards such as state sponsored hacking and and invading neighbouring countries/propping up genocidal dictators?"._

----------


## Klondyke

*Coverage of double agent’s alleged poisoning is hysterical propaganda – Lavrov*
Published time: 9 Mar, 2018

Sergey Lavrov said that Russia is blamed for everything that goes wrong on the planet, and noted that no facts had been presented to suggest any Russian involvement in the poisoning of Sergey Skripal and his daughter.

We haven’t heard a single fact, we only watch TV coverage, where your colleagues speak fervently with serious faces that if it is Russia. The response will be that Russia will remember forever. It’s not serious, it’s propaganda at its finest and pressing hysteria,” said the foreign minister, who was speaking at a press conference alongside his Ethiopian counterpart, Workneh Gebeyehu.

However, Lavrov stated that if British authorities were interested in cooperating with Russia in relation to any case, “be it poisoning of British subjects, be it rumors of interfering in US campaign, if help is really needed, we are ready to look at such possibility.

“However, to conduct such matters, one shouldn’t run to TV screens with baseless accusations, but turn professionally to existing channels, including law enforcement,” he added.

“I want to remind people that Litvinenko’s death was also attributed to Russia, but hasn’t been investigated, because court proceedings, which were called ‘public,’ were in fact closed. They were carried out in a very strange way, and numerous facts, which emerged throughout investigation, haven’t come into the public domain,” the minister said.

https://www.rt.com/news/420842-doubl...oning-skripal/

----------


## harrybarracuda

> However, Lavrov stated that if British authorities were interested in cooperating with Russia in relation to any case, “be it poisoning of British subjects, be it rumors of interfering in US campaign, if help is really needed, we are ready to look at such possibility.


I don't suppose there's much point in calling bullshit on that fat turd because it's all he knows.

----------


## OhOh

> I'd suggest you google _"Countries with sanctions against them for breaching international law and standards such as state sponsored hacking and and invading neighbouring countries/propping up genocidal dictators?"._


Hearsay and prejudice do not pass for laws 'arry. Anybody can place a sanction on another country or individual. It's got nothing to do with laws and standards just money.




> I don't suppose there's much point in calling bullshit


The offer was made, whether anybody has the balls or desire to find out the truth and would like Russia assistance they will receive a warm welcome.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The offer was made, whether anybody has the balls or desire to find out the truth and would like Russia assistance they will receive a warm welcome.


The offer is bullshit.

Let's see them send Andrei Lugovoi to face trial before they start gobbing off about "truth".

----------


## Neo

you're frothing again harry  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Klondyke

> Let's see them send Andrei Lugovoi to face trial before they start gobbing off about "truth".


After all, there is nothing to be afraid of a truly fair trial.  Something like the trial about Lockerbie...

----------


## PAG



----------


## harrybarracuda

> After all, there is nothing to be afraid of a truly fair trial.  Something like the trial about Lockerbie...


According to my records, one defendant was cleared and the other abandoned his appeal and was squirrelled off home in a murky deal with Libya.

So what is your point?

----------


## Cujo

This all seems a bit odd.



> Almost 200 members of the armed forces arrived on the streets of Salisbury on Friday to support police investigating the nerve agent attack on a Russian former spy and his daughter, as attention focused on the cemetery where the remains of Sergei Skripals wife and and son lie.
> 
> In extraordinary scenes at the citys London Road cemetery that indicated the investigation was gathering pace, experts in full hazmat suits helped set up tents over the grave of Liudmila Skripal and the memorial of Alexander Skripal, who both died in recent years.
> 
> 
> Across the city, soldiers, bomb disposal specialists, marines and RAF personnel were called in to help secure vehicles and scenes that may have been contaminated and to take the pressure off the police. The new deployment included experts in chemical warfare.
> 
> 
> The Metropolitan police dismissed reports that an exhumation took place on Friday and said there were no plans to carry one out.
> ...


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...sbury-cemetery

----------


## Klondyke

> According to my records, one defendant was cleared and the other abandoned his appeal and was squirrelled off home in a murky deal with Libya.
> 
> So what is your point?


As originally known, Libya had nothing to do with the crash *). Even as found by the Scottish investigators (in contrast to US investigators) and some victims' families. 
So, instead being embarrassed by re-trial, they better released the one...

*) but Iran as revenge for shooting down their aircraft by US "mistake"...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> As originally known, Libya had nothing to do with the crash


Kinda makes you wonder why they admitted it and paid $2.7 Billion in compensation then, eh?

You thicko.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> This all seems a bit odd.


It all seems a bit precautionary if you ask me.

----------


## Wilsonandson

*
*
*Russian spy poisoning: Police fear graves of relatives BOOBY-TRAPPED*



THEORY: The graves of Sergei Skripal’s wife and son could have been boobytrapped*THE graves of poisoned Russian spy Sergei Skripal’s wife and son could have been boobytrapped.
*
By Oliver Pritchard
10 Mar 2018

Teams of officers wearing hazard protection suits removed items from a cemetery in Salisbury, Wilts, where the pair are buried. The materials were then taken in a large convoy, which included several Army trucks and police vehicles, to Salisbury District Hospital for analysis. A convoy of military vehicles also rolled into the car park at the hospital to recover a police car.

One theory police are probing is the possibility that the graves were booby-trapped to poison Mr Skripal, 66, and his 33-year-old daughter Yulia. Mr Skripal’s house and his car have also been cordoned off. A witness who lives near the cemetery said they saw a large blue bag being removed from the site of the graves. The scene was later covered by a forensic tent.

DEATH: Mr Skripal's son Alexander died in mysterious circumstances in St Petersburg last year. Mr Skripal and Yulia were poisoned with a nerve agent on Sunday. They remain in a critical condition in hospital.

In total 21 people needed hospital treatment after the attack, including police hero Nick Bailey who tried to help the Russian double agent and his daughter.

Police said Det Sgt Bailey is conscious but “very anxious” about being exposed to a nerve agent.

Mr Skripal’s wife, Liudmila, died aged 59 from cancer in 2012. Their son Alexander died aged 43 in mysterious circumstances in St Petersburg last year. There has been speculation that the pair were murdered by Russia after Mr Skripal’s betrayal in selling secrets to MI6. Russia denies any involvement.

Home Secretary Amber Rudd visited the city yesterday and spoke to first responders. She described the attack as “outrageous” and praised emergency services for their brave actions. Ex Metropolitan Police Commissioner Lord Blair said an investigation should be launched into whether there is a pattern of former British intelligence collaborators dying in the UK.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/late...ped-spy-poison

----------


## Wilsonandson

Very Interesting!

----------


## Wilsonandson

Another interesting piece...

----------


## OhOh

No word of the Doctor, nurse or paramedics who allegedly treated the two Russians at the scene.

I suppose they, being knowledgable about such things, and routinely exposed to so many "extremely lethal nerve poisons" they are immune. Has the hospital been quarantined, have experts from the UK Porton Down Chemical Weapons Centre (where VX nerve agent originated in the 1950s and still being "developed") been called in to rubber stamp the pre-determined truth?

 ::chitown:: 

_"A doctor, who was shopping with her husband in the city centre on  Sunday, told the BBC she stepped in to help Ms Skripal after she found  her slumped on the bench.

__She described her as "slumped in her seat, completely unconscious" and had lost control of her bodily functions._
_Helped  by a passing nurse, the hospital registrar got the 33-year-old onto the  floor and into the recovery position - opening up her airway.

_
_The  pair, who did not have any visible injuries, were taken to Salisbury  District Hospital by paramedics where they are being treated in  intensive care._
_The doctor said she "feels fine" but remains concerned that she may have been affected by a nerve gas agent used in the attack."_

Russian spy: What we know so far - BBC News
Questions in the House, COBRA meetings, hotel bookings cancelled and now:


_"About 180 military personnel have  been deployed to Salisbury to help in the investigation into the  attempted murder of an ex-Russian spy and his daughter.
_
_The personnel - from the Army, Royal Marines and RAF - are experts in chemical warfare and decontamination.
_
_Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia remain in a critical condition after being exposed to a nerve agent. 
_
_Home Secretary Amber Rudd will chair a meeting of the government's emergency committee, Cobra, on Saturday."

_Somebody's stirring this pot a little too much, any Bears been spotted over the North Sea?_


_

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Somebody's stirring this pot a little too much, any Bears been spotted over the North Sea?


So let me get this straight, some fucker used a nerve agent in public on British soil to try and kill a defector, and you think they're taking it too seriously?

I'm afraid the fucking imbecile is very strong in you today.

----------


## Neo

> a defector


 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Klondyke

> on British soil to try and kill


Pity they no longer have the old good Ms. Marple, she would solve the mystery without the big show - and without the big money spent...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> 


Not particularly relevant to the point, but Spy if it makes you feel better.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> No word of the Doctor, nurse or paramedics who allegedly treated the two Russians at the scene.
> 
> I suppose they, being knowledgable about such things, and routinely exposed to so many "extremely lethal nerve poisons" they are immune. Has the hospital been quarantined, have experts from the UK Porton Down Chemical Weapons Centre (where VX nerve agent originated in the 1950s and still being "developed") been called in to rubber stamp the pre-determined truth?


Are you saying they are not part of:




> A total of 21 people have received medical treatment after falling ill following the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal, police have said.


?

----------


## Neo

> Not particularly relevant to the point, but Spy if it makes you feel better.


he was tried, found guilty and served a prison term in Russia and was then released as part of an exchange program

the point being, he didn't defect

----------


## uncle junior

*


Former Trump aide speaks to Mueller, believes Russia probe is 'not a witch hunt'*



Former Trump aide speaks to Mueller, believes Russia probe is 'not a witch hunt' - ABC News

----------


## Cujo

> *
> 
> 
> Former Trump aide speaks to Mueller, believes Russia probe is 'not a witch hunt'*
> 
> 
> 
> Former Trump aide speaks to Mueller, believes Russia probe is 'not a witch hunt' - ABC News


Wrong thread dumbass.

----------


## uncle junior

^bite me

----------


## wasabi

Oih didn't this same British secret service eliminate Princess Diana, I mean what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

----------


## OhOh

> I'm afraid the fucking imbecile is very strong in you today.


As of "today" there is no evidence. However the blame has already been decided and the high and mighty have heaped more ridicule on The LORD and his people.

Very ignorant manners by those with power who have publicly spoken. Very ignorant behaviour by those who have agreed with the methods adopted for solving a possibly dangerous event.




> Are you saying they are not part of:
> 
> A total of 21 people have received medical treatment after falling ill following the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal, police have said.
> ?


Who knows who these 21 are, has anybody been named, any "press" interviews with the victims or their families, any videos on the web illustrating their wounds or any videos of the police pointing at the "mystery" nerve agent, paramedics, hospital staff, does the District Hospital have the resources to treat the 21 or have they been shipped off to Porton Down to be examined/experimented on, by the worlds experts?

When will the UK come clean, as in Thailand?

----------


## Klondyke

> Oih didn't this same British secret service eliminate Princess Diana,


That was before the Russiagate was invented. Had it happened nowadays, the investigation outcome would be different...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> he was tried, found guilty and served a prison term in Russia and was then released as part of an exchange program
> 
> the point being, he didn't defect


What the fuck ever, but it is not relevant to my point. If you think it justifies using nerve agents in public, you're a dick.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> As of "today" there is no evidence. However the blame has already been decided and the high and mighty have heaped more ridicule on The LORD and his people.
> 
> Very ignorant manners by those with power who have publicly spoken. Very ignorant behaviour by those who have agreed with the methods adopted for solving a possibly dangerous event.
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows who these 21 are, has anybody been named, any "press" interviews with the victims or their families, any videos on the web illustrating their wounds or any videos of the police pointing at the "mystery" nerve agent, paramedics, hospital staff, does the District Hospital have the resources to treat the 21 or have they been shipped off to Porton Down to be examined/experimented on, by the worlds experts?
> 
> When will the UK come clean, as in Thailand?


Why do you personally need to know the details of the 21?

Do you intend to send them sarcastic emails claiming they faked their illnesses?




> _As of "today" there is no evidence. However the blame has already been decided and the high and mighty have heaped more ridicule on_ _The LORD__ and his people._


Unfortunately your hero has previous. Lots of previous.

So it's almost fucking nailed on that it's down to him in my opinion.

----------


## Neo

> What the fuck ever, but it is not relevant to my point. If you think it justifies using nerve agents in public, you're a dick.


Meltdown  :smiley laughing:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Meltdown


No. Just a bland statement of fact.

----------


## Neo

Funny how you get in a rage when you don't like the answer tbough.. miserable old git  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Funny how you get in a rage when you don't like the answer tbough.. miserable old git


A "rage"?

My dear boy whatever are you fantasising about?

And what was the "answer"?

All you did was quibble about the bloke's job description which has fuck all to do with my point, you illiterate buffoon.

----------


## Neo

Sure harry.. everyone is an illiterate buffoon that thinks you're a narrow minded cretin.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## buriramboy

Harry has come across as a menopausal woman for years Now, how long does the menopause last anyway?

----------


## Klondyke

*Softly-softly isnt working. Time to play hard with wealthy Russians living in Britain*
Oliver Bullough
*After the Salisbury poisonings, its time to tell Putins inner circle that they are no longer welcome here

*South-east England is a favourite playground of rich Russians. They keep their houses here, their children here, they float their companies on our stock exchange and they dont make a secret of it. Youre not rich in Russia without being friends with Putin  in fact, there is a remarkably close correlation between the two groups  so if Mays government wants to send a message to the Russian president, it could cancel the visas of the members of his inner circle and, perhaps, try out the potency of its new unexplained wealth orders, by freezing their property. Then it should dismantle the mechanisms with which they launder their money.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...bury-poisoning


As I remarked before, the Brits do not mind the rich people wherever they come from (even from Thailand), important they bring their "clean" money:

*The dark side of Britains gold rush: how corruption crept into our suburbs

The Observer
The super rich flooded into London after 2008. Illicit wealth has followed*

The glut of funds flowing into the UK can be viewed as a sign of confidence in its economy and confirmation that it is one of the most attractive countries in the world in which to live. But, while much of the foreign money inflating property bubbles and private-school fees will have come from legitimate sources, there are grounds to suspect that some has been acquired through the proceeds of corruption.

Gulnara Karimova  the daughter of the late, former Uzbek dictator Islam Karimov, described in leaked US embassy cables as the single most hated person in Uzbekistan  is believed to have owned several flats in Belgravia worth millions of pounds. Karimova, who is alleged to have pocketed hundred of millions in bribes for allowing telecoms firms access to the Uzbek market, has been linked to the properties through a company in the British Virgin Islands.

James Ibori, a former governor of one of Nigerias oil-producing states, was jailed after admitting stealing £160m over eight years, spending some of the stolen money on six houses in London  including a Hampstead mansion  and putting his children through elite private schools.

The campaign group Global Witness highlights the example of Maxim Bakiyev, the playboy first son of a former president of Kyrgyzstan, who has been convicted in absentia of using his position to steal from the Kyrgyz people. Kyrgyz court decisions implicate Bakiyev in the embezzlement of millions of funds from the Kyrgyz state, illegally privatising public land and selling off state energy firms for a fraction of their value.

Establishing who is behind these trusts is often impossible. Analysis by Transparency International and Thomson Reuters was unable to identify the real owners of more than half of 44,022 land titles owned by overseas companies. Nine out of 10 of the properties were bought via tax havens. However, the analysis was able to establish that almost 1,000 of the titles were owned by Peps (politically exposed persons), powerful individuals identified as having political influence and who constitute the greatest corruption risk, according to Transparency International.

Much of the money being laundered has come from assets plundered from the former Soviet bloc countries and African states. A wave of privatisations in the 1990s saw the illegal transfer of billions made from the corrupt sale of mining rights, telecoms contracts, gas and oil concessions.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ty-kleptocrats

And not speaking about the poor guys fighting each other, Mr. Abramovich and the late Mr. Berezovsky (wondering why his death had not been attributed to Mr. Putin?)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Harry has come across as a menopausal woman for years Now, how long does the menopause last anyway?



I did not come across a menopausal woman....





Oh.

----------


## david44

> *Softly-softly isn’t working. Time to play hard with wealthy Russians living in Britain*
> Oliver Bullough
> *After the Salisbury poisonings, it’s time to tell Putin’s inner circle that they are no longer welcome here
> 
> *South-east England is a favourite playground of rich Russians. They keep their houses here, their children here, they float their companies on our stock exchange and they don’t make a secret of it. You’re not rich in Russia without being friends with Putin – in fact, there is a remarkably close correlation between the two groups – so if May’s government wants to send a message to the Russian president, it could cancel the visas of the members of his inner circle and, perhaps, try out the potency of its new “unexplained wealth orders”, by freezing their property. Then it should dismantle the mechanisms with which they launder their money.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...bury-poisoning
> 
> 
> ...


Unlike Slyam the British are very tolerant they also welcome poor scum alongside rich scum hoping that cricket fairplay and table manners may rub off, I'm not sure the taxpayers like these asylum seekers, millionaires as so few seem to contribute hence the Brexit shock.Can you imagine this place allowing non Thais welfare rights, voting and property rights etc. 

The abuse of the generous and blatant failure to deport failed asylum seekers foreign born  criminals' groomers and dubious Oligarchs will backfire and wobble an already fragile social harmony

----------


## Klondyke

Frankly, who is naive enough to think that now - after all the show - the govt will say "sorry, we haven't found anything useful, just a sour stomach from the ice-cream consumed on the bench in park"...

(BTW, no longer danger from the sub-sea cutters?)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Frankly, who is naive enough to think that now - after all the show - the govt will say "sorry, we haven't found anything useful, just a sour stomach from the ice-cream consumed on the bench in park"...
> 
> (BTW, no longer danger from the sub-sea cutters?)


Well you could, given that you're the forum imbecile.

----------


## harrybarracuda

The former Russian double agent and his daughter poisoned by a deadly nerve agent will either die or be crippled by their exposure to Novichok, according to the whistleblower who alerted the world to Russia’s secret chemical weapons programme.
Vil Mirzayanov, a chemist who worked at the heart of the Soviet programme, said Russia was the only country able to produce and deploy such a powerful nerve agent, and he warned that many more people may fall ill.
“It is at least 10 times more powerful than any known nerve agent. Plus practically it is incurable,” he said at his New Jersey home on Monday evening.
“These people are gone – the man and his daughter. Even if they survive they will not recover. That is the terrible damage it does.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ian-scientist/

----------


## OhOh

Nothing matters of any substance matters to an ageing politician, but it should to you.

A graphic that has determined this farce.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ys-theresa-may


*May issues ultimatum to Moscow over Salisbury poisoning*

_"Based on the positive identification of this chemical agent by  world-leading experts at Porton Down_ [No Proof submitted for ratification]_, our knowledge that Russia_[Russia or USSR]_ has  previously produced this agent and would still be capable of doing so_ [No Proof submitted for ratification]_,  Russia’s record of conducting state-sponsored assassinations_ [No Proof submitted for ratification]_, and our  assessment_[No Proof submitted for ratification] _that Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets for  assassinations_[No Proof submitted for ratification]_, the government has concluded that it is highly likely  that Russia was responsible for the act against Sergei and Yulia Skripal_[No Proof submitted for ratification]_…. Either this was a direct act by the Russian state against our country_[No Proof submitted for ratification]. Or the Russian government lost control[No Proof submitted for ratification] of this potentially catastrophically  damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others[No Proof submitted for ratification]…

_Should there be no credible response, we will conclude that this  action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the Russian state against  the United Kingdom……

_
_This attempted murder using a weapons-grade nerve agent in a British town_[No Proof submitted for ratification]_ was not just a crime against the Skripals.

_
_“It was an indiscriminate and reckless act against the United  Kingdom_[No Proof submitted for ratification as to whether the "UK assesment is valid], _putting the lives of innocent civilians at risk. And we will  not tolerate such a brazen attempt to murder innocent civilians on our  soil. I commend this statement to the House…."_


The UK government, without actually presenting any evidence on this case and previous unproven accusations against Russia, have publicly demanded Russia proves it didn't do it, within 36 hours, or the PM will request from the Sovereign permission to "take all necessary steps" to ensure Russia never is in a position to do anything similar again.

The ameristani vassal has threatened war. Shades of recent previous wars being committed on sexed-up propaganda which consequently after more lives are lost will prove to be false. What will the new assembly of warmongers be called this time, The May Massacre?

I wonder if the upcoming Russian elections have anything to do with this charade.

----------


## Klondyke

^Who is naive enough - from what has been presented - not to believe that 



> * it is “highly likely” Moscow was responsible*


----

not only the nerve agent but also:




> Speaking to MPs on Monday, Ms May set out a “well-established pattern of Russian state aggression” – including invading Crimea, fomenting overseas conflict, violating European airspace and meddling in other country’s elections.
> 
> She then went on to give a strong indication of potential avenues for action, saying the UK is committed to collective defence through NATO “in the face of Russian behaviour”.
> 
> She added: “Indeed our armed forces have a leading role in Nato’s Enhanced Forward Presence with British troops leading a multinational battle group in Estonia.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8252666.html

Russian spy attack: Vladimir Putin has 24 hours to explain how deadly nerve agent was used on UK soil, says Theresa May | The Independent

Suffice to mention the sub-sea cable cutters...

----------


## Klondyke

We are comrades only with good people...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> [No Proof submitted for ratification]


Tell me HoHo, at what point in your mental decline did you start believing that you are important enough to be able to receive classified information?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> We are comrades only with good people...


This thread is about the murder of two spies/defectors/criminals/whatever the fuck Neo wants to call them, not about Saudi Arabia.

You fucking imbecile. Read the thread title.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Harry has come across as a menopausal woman for years Now, how long does the menopause last anyway?


In the case of my ex wife, 24 years and still counting.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> In the case of my ex wife, 24 years and still counting.



Never forgiven you has she?

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

(CNN)It's been described as among the deadliest chemical weapons ever made.

But Novichok, the substance confirmed by UK Prime Minister Theresa May to have been used in the attempted murder of Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, is not merely lethal, it's also highly unusual.

It's so unusual in fact, that very few scientists outside of Russia have any real experience in dealing with it.
The substance, which means "newcomer" in Russian, was first developed in secret by the Soviet Union during the Cold War in the 1980s, as a means of countering US chemical weapons defenses.

Its existence remained secret until the mid-nineties, when information regarding its production was revealed as part of a deliberate leak by disgruntled Soviet scientist and whistle-blower Vil Mirzayanov. Even today, no country outside of Russia is known to have developed the substance.

It's that information that helped the UK Government conclude it was "highly likely" that either Russia tried to kill Skripal directly, or it had lost control of the nerve agent.

Speaking to CNN, chemical weapons expert Hamish de Bretton-Gordon described Novichok as "a very sophisticated chemical weapon" that only a very select number of states would be capable of handling.

"It is difficult to imagine a scenario that doesn't have Russian hands all over it," said de Bretton-Gordon, a former commanding officer of the UK military's Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) Regiment.

"So, the chance that perhaps some of these Novichoks have been stolen by criminals or terrorists from Russia is a possibility, and we wait to see an explanation from the Russian Ambassador to London tomorrow, but I think highly unlikely."

According to Professor Gary Stephens, pharmacology expert at the University of Reading, Novichok is a more "dangerous and sophisticated" nerve agent than sarin which has been used in chemical weapons attacks in Syria, or VX, which was used to assassinate Kim Jong Nam, the brother of the North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, at an airport in Malaysia last year.

It is also harder to identify. "One of the main reasons these agents are developed is because their component parts are not on the banned list," said Stephens, referring to the Chemical Weapons Convention, an international arms control treaty signed in 1993 that prohibits the use, development, production, stockpiling and transfer of chemical weapons.

"It means the chemicals that are mixed to create it are much easier to deliver with no risk to the health of the courier," said Stephens.

A colorless, odorless and tasteless liquid, Novichok would be easy to transport, suggested de Bretton-Gordon, who described it as likely going undetected "through an airport or a seaport or even through the mail."

Like other nerve agents, Novichok works by causing a slowing of the heart and restriction of the airways, leading to a slow and often painful death by asphyxiation.

Andrea Sella, professor of chemistry at University College London, described Novichok as causing a "systemic collapse of many bodily functions."

"In essence what they do is to block the mechanism that allows a nerve to reset itself after a signal has been transmitted," said Sella, adding that the symptoms were largely consistent, "especially the labored breathing and the muscular rigidity."

There is no treatment, only supportive care, including oxygen, anti-seizure medication, atropine, used for some poisoning patients, and pralidoxime chloride, given to inhibit poisoning including by nerve agents. Even just small doses can cause confusion and drowsiness.

"Treatment involves supporting breathing and delivering pharmaceuticals that on the one hand moderate the behavior of the nervous system and that can reverse the action of the agent," said Sella.

"It is likely that there will be long-term neurological problems for a person who has been exposed to these agents."
Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, remain hospitalized in critical condition. A police officer who came into contact with the nerve agent, Detective Sgt. Nick Bailey, remains hospitalized in serious condition but has been speaking to visitors.

The next question facing the UK government is how precisely the attack was administered -- and how the Skripals ingested the agent.

According to the medical handbook, Responding to Terrorism, published in 2010, Novichok nerve agents "may be dispersed as an ultra-fine powder as opposed to a gas or a vapor," with the main route of exposure thought to be by inhalation, although "absorption may also occur via skin or mucous membrane exposure."

According to the book's authors, professors Ian Greaves and Paul Hunt, the Novochok class of agent was reportedly engineered to be undetectable by standard detection equipment, meaning further investigation may prove to be difficult.

On Friday, an additional 180 military personnel were deployed to the scene to help police investigate several sites amid concerns over potential contamination.

This was followed yesterday by the removal of the restaurant table where Sergei and Yulia Skripal ate on the day of attack for examination, a source confirmed to CNN. Restaurant employees were also advised to wash their uniforms, but not to burn them.

However, in spite of the extreme toxicity of these compounds, there would be very little risk to the general population, suggested professor Salla.

"There is no way of spreading the material around and it would decompose relatively swiftly in damp conditions," said Salla, who described the attempted murder as a "highly targeted attack."

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/13/e...ntl/index.html

----------


## wasabi

The Russians could have bumped off this double agent while they had him in custody, but they released him, and the message the Russians have sent out is this " Don't think we won't get you, anywhere you hide, it'll never be safe"

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The Russians could have bumped off this double agent while they had him in custody, but they released him, and the message the Russians have sent out is this " Don't think we won't get you, anywhere you hide, it'll never be safe"


No, he was useful because they involved him in a prisoner swap (they got that Anna Chapman back).

----------


## Pragmatic

> No, he was useful because they involved him in a prisoner swap


 They did swap him but they wouldn't have done if he'd posed any threat to them. That is my understanding why he was swapped.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> They did swap him but they wouldn't have done if he'd posed any threat to them. That is my understanding why he was swapped.


Yes, by that time the damage had been done. Same with the large breasted Mata Hari-ski.

The Russians have got until midnight to respond, otherwise the British will write them a very stiff letter of admonishment.

----------


## Wilsonandson

Donald Trump Fires Secretary of State Rex Tillerson

The Scotsman
By PARIS GOURTSOYANNIS 
Tuesday 13 March 2018

Donald Trump has fired his Secretary of State hours after Rex Tillerson backed the UK's claim that the Salisbury nerve agent attack was "highly likely" to have originated in Russia. It was reported by the Washington Post that Mr Tillerson was informed of his dismissal several days ago.

 

However, the timing of the announcement, which followed the White Houses refusal to echo Theresa Mays accusation against Moscow, risks isolating Downing Street. The US President tweeted that the CIA Director Mike Pompeo would take over at the State Department. 

Russia demands access to sample of Novichok nerve agent as deadline looms A senior White House official said: The president wanted to make sure to have his new team in place in advance of the upcoming talks with North Korea and various ongoing trade negotiations. 

There had been longstanding rumors to friction between the President and Mr Tillerson, a former Exxon Mobile chief executive. The Secretary of State had previously been forced to deny media reports that he called Mr Trump a moron. 

On Monday, Mr Tillerson had echoed the Prime Ministers comments about Moscows involvement in the Salisbury attack, saying it clearly came from Russia. 

Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...laim-1-4704745

----------


## OhOh

> Tell me HoHo, at what point in your mental decline did you start believing that you are important enough to be able to receive classified information?


You may wish to brush up on legally signed agreements regarding procedures on the alleged use of chemical weapons. I believe there is a UN document if you can absorb some facts available to all of us not just your favourite "people of status". :Smile: 




> It's so unusual in fact, that very few scientists outside of Russia have any real experience in dealing with it.


You may wish to investigate where the Russian/Soviet person who designed the weapons resides and for how long he has been living there. You may also wish to investigate which country had access to these types of weapons, what agreements they signed after the dissolution of USSR and which country "assisted", the ex USSR country, with the clean up of the facilities where the weapons were tested and stored and paid them handsomely for the privilege.






> The Russians have got until midnight to respond, otherwise the British will write them a very stiff letter of admonishment.




The Russian Foreign minister replied prior to the threat of war. The Russian Foreign Ministry spokes person, the blonde lady, replies yesterday. Not that your impeccable "sources" would publish them.

__
_
"On Tuesday, Moscow balked at this demand, with the Russian Foreign  Ministry saying that it had summoned British Ambassador to Moscow Laurie  Bristow. _ _“We have certainly heard the ultimatum voiced in London,” Russia's  top diplomat Sergey Lavrov said. “The spokesperson for the Foreign  Ministry has commented on our attitude to this,” he added referring to  Maria Zakharova branding of May’s appearance in Parliament as a  “circus.”

_
_Lavrov said that a case of alleged use of chemical weapons should be  handled through the proper channel, being the Organization for the  Prohibition of Chemical Weapons of which both Russia and Britain are  members.

_
_“As soon as the rumours came up that the poisoning of Skripal involved  a Russia-produced agent, which almost the entire English leadership has  been fanning up, we sent an official request for access to this  compound so that our experts could test it in accordance with the  Chemical Weapons Convention [CWC],” Lavrov said. So far the request has  been ignored by the British side, he added."
_




> Rex Tillerson backed the UK's claim that the Salisbury nerve agent attack was "highly likely" to have originated in Russia.


An ex government officer who has no authority to speak on behalf of ameristan. What has he got to do with anything, he allegedly was fired on Friday. A has-been. 

The only good thing is that the hag from the ameristani UN team wasn't selected.

You may also wish to investigate the ex spy's relationship with the ex MI6 spy who was responsible for the unproven Russian hacking allegations.

Or just keep drinking the Koolaid. :Smile:

----------


## Chittychangchang

Apparently it's tinfoil hat time! 

The British did it to discredit the Ruskies.

The Russians want to test samples found at the scene themselves. 

A challenging investigation!

----------


## David48atTD

Russian exile Nikolai Glushkov found dead in London, eight days after Skripal poisoning


Nikolai Glushkov was a close ally of Putin critic, Boris Berezovsky.

A Russian businessman who was associated with a prominent critic of the Kremlin has died in London, his lawyer has said.

*Key points:*
Nikolai Glushkov was close ally of Putin critic Boris BerezovskyPolice treating death as unexplained, have put counter-terrorism detectives in charge of caseDeath came as Amber Rudd announced investigation into string of Russian deaths on UK soil 

Police are treating the death as unexplained and have put counter-terrorism detectives in charge of the case.

More Here

----------


## Pragmatic

> Since World War II, *Israel* has *assassinated* more people than any *other country* in the Western world.


 I don't see anyone getting tough with the 'Blue Suede Shoes'.

----------


## misskit

*After spy is poisoned, Britain mulls closing door to London for Russia's rich*MOSCOW (Reuters) - Britain’s response to the poisoning of former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal on its soil, using a nerve agent developed by the Soviet Union, could hit members of the Russian elite hard if it closes the door on their London lifestyles.

Britain gave Russian President Vladimir Putin until midnight on Tuesday to provide an explanation for the attack, and is due to consider its official response on Wednesday.



One possible counter-measure, suggested by British lawmaker Tom Tugendhat, could involve denying Russia’s so-called oligarchs access to the luxuries of London, where many have channeled their fortunes, traded their companies and relocated their family lives.


Most prominent among the residents of “Londongrad”, as the British capital has been nicknamed for its popularity among the Russian elite, are Roman Abramovich and Alisher Usmanov, respectively owner and major shareholder of the English football clubs Chelsea and Arsenal.


But they are far from alone. Around 10-15 percent of the 96 Russians on the so-called “oligarch list” published by the U.S. Treasury Department in January could have close ties to Britain, according to Vladimir Ashurkov, a businessman and critic of the Kremlin based in London.


“It’s very possible that Britain will take measures that could affect these individuals,” Ashurkov said.


“We know that London is a large haven for money that come from Russia ... Britain has the capacity to investigate this money and the activity of specific people,” he added.


Among the best-known are a group of long-time business partners associated with the investment vehicle LetterOne, which sports three offices in London’s wealthy Mayfair district alone.


The firm’s founder, Mikhail Fridman, owns a mansion in London’s Highgate, according to the company restoring the property.


One of the firm’s investors, Petr Aven, has given journalists tours around his estate in Surrey, in the southeast of England.


Among the best-known are a group of long-time business partners associated with the investment vehicle LetterOne, which sports three offices in London’s wealthy Mayfair district alone.


The firm’s founder, Mikhail Fridman, owns a mansion in London’s Highgate, according to the company restoring the property.


One of the firm’s investors, Petr Aven, has given journalists tours around his estate in Surrey, in the southeast of England.


After being fired as Moscow mayor in 2010, Yuri Luzhkov moved his family to London, saying he feared for their safety.


Last December Yelena Baturina, his wife and Russia’s wealthiest woman, was made a director of the charity the Mayor’s Fund for London, according to Britain’s business directory Companies House.


Their daughter Olga studied at University College London, her social media accounts show.



It is by no means certain that oligarchs bringing their money home would receive a warm welcome, said Christopher Weafer, senior partner at Macro-Advisory, a consultancy in Moscow.


“Oligarchs could find themselves in the middle, in the firing ground as it were,” Weafer said.


“They could be the target of sanctions applied by the UK government, but on the other hand they will get absolutely no sympathy in Russia, because they brought their money out and spent it outside the country.”


Reuters has no evidence that any of the people mentioned, or their businesses, are going to be subject to any new British restrictions.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1GP2WE

----------


## misskit

*From polonium to a poisoned umbrella: mysterious fates of Kremlin foes*https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1GP2S8

----------


## OhOh

> I don't see anyone getting tough with the 'Blue Suede Shoes'.


You missed the recent Syrian shoot down of one of their fly-boys and the Israeli leader squealing like a stuck pig. First time Syria has defended itself against the BSSs for decades.




> From polonium to a poisoned umbrella: mysterious fates of Kremlin foes


I'm "probably" going to get a blast from 'arry for this but it doesn't mean the statement is the truth. 

Same as your supposition.

----------


## mcgoo

^^  Looks like Laurence O'livier

----------


## OhOh

A suggested route to obtain clarity of the unproven allegations of the UK. 

*Statement by Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to  the OPCW, Ambassador Alexander Shulgin, at the 87th session of the OPCW  Executive Council on the chemical incident in Salisbury, The Hague,  March 13, 2018
*_Mr Chairperson,
_
_"In connection with the vicious attacks launched by British  officials in London, as well as the statement by the head of the British  delegation to the OPCW with regard to Russia concerning the suspicious  story of two persons poisoned with a toxic agent in Salisbury, we would  like to state the following.
_
_The British authorities’ unfounded accusations of Russia’s  alleged involvement in using poisonous agents on their territory are  absolutely unacceptable. Our British colleagues should recall that  Russia and the United Kingdom are members of the OPCW which is one of  the most successful and effective disarmament and non-proliferation  mechanisms. We call upon them to abandon the language of ultimatums and  threats and return to the legal framework of the chemical convention,  which makes it possible to resolve this kind of situation.


_
_If London does have serious reasons to suspect Russia of  violating the CWC - and the statement read by distinguished Ambassador  Peter Wilson indicates directly that this is so - we suggest that  Britain immediately avail itself of the procedures provided for by  paragraph 2 of Article 9 of the CWC. They make it possible, on a  bilateral basis, to officially contact us for clarifications regarding  any issues that raise doubts or concerns._

_We would also like to emphasise that such clarifications under  the Convention are provided to the requesting member state as soon as  possible, but in any case no later than 10 days following receipt of the  request. As such, the ultimatum’s demand that information be provided  immediately, by the end of today, is absolutely unacceptable.

_

_Our British colleagues should save their propaganda fervour and  slogans for their unenlightened domestic audience, where perhaps they  will have some effect. Here, within the walls of a specialised  international organisation, such as the OPCW, one must use facts and  nothing but the facts. Stop fomenting hysteria, go ahead and officially  formalise your request to begin consultations with us in order to  clarify the situation. A fair warning, we will require material evidence  of the alleged Russian trace in this high-profile case. Britain’s  allegations that they have everything, and their world-famous scientists  have irrefutable data, but they will not give us anything, will not be  taken into account. For us, this will mean that London has nothing  substantial to show, and all its loud accusations are nothing but  fiction and another instance of the dirty information war being waged on  Russia. Sooner or later, they will have to be held accountable for  their lies.


_
_In addition, in this particular case, it would be legitimate  for the British side to seek assistance from the OPCW Technical  Secretariat in conducting an independent laboratory analysis of the  available samples that allegedly show traces of nerve agents in  Salisbury.
_
_Thank you, Mr Chairperson.


_
_We ask you to circulate this statement as an official document of the 87th session of the OPCW's Executive Council and post it on the Organisation’s external server."

https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6418

_An early image of the PM in her usual position, allegedly in a pub on the Falls road, Belfast last summer._ 


_

----------


## OhOh

An article about the non chemical weapon alleged to have been used. The full version at the link. 

https://www.rt.com/news/421200-uk-novichok-agent-allegations/

*Here are the headlines for those with limited attention span. 

The killer agent that is not on chemical watchdog list? Oh dear.*

*Would you pay $30 for a secret chemical agent formula? Really that much, in Thailand it would be 30THB?

Is Russia the only place it could come from? No.*

*How was it proven to have been Russia, if nerve agents can be produced anywhere? Impossible*

*What about the chemical watchdog confirming Russia destroyed its stockpiles? Only last year!*

*Timing is everything? Proven Interference in another countries elections, by regime leaders of ameristan, UK, Germany ......  never!*


Here is the OCPW "What is a chemical weapon - Fact Sheet":

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/Fact_Sheets/English/Fact_Sheet_4_-_CW_types.pdf

When will the Porton Down scientists start showing up dead in a woodland setting?

----------


## harrybarracuda

Good old Russian propaganda.

It's just like the cold war.

----------


## Cujo

Kind of puts Trump in a tight spot having to choose between his new BFF Putin and traditional ally Britain.



> Russian spy attack: PM prepares reprisals as deadline passesMay prepares to chair meeting of the national security council as she plans Moscow crackdown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The prime minister is preparing to set out a range of reprisals against the Russian state, including calls for fresh sanctions, visa bans and crackdowns on Russian money in the UK. She is expected to set out plans to build a coalition of international support – from the European Union, Nato and even the United Nations – to rein in Russia over time.
> 
> 
> May will put her proposals to the national security committee on Wednesday before briefing MPs in a statement that could set the course for UK foreign policy for years to come.
> ...


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...uk-all-the-way

----------


## Cujo

> Good old Russian propaganda.
> 
> It's just like the cold war.


It's surprising that so many are swallowing it.
Taking whatever the Russians say at face value.
It's like here in China. The disbelief when Newbies start to realize they're being blatantly lied to.
Us old hands know if their lips are moving they're lying.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It's surprising that so many are swallowing it.
> Taking whatever the Russians say at face value.
> It's like here in China. The disbelief when Newbies start to realize they're being blatantly lied to.
> Us old hands know if their lips are moving they're lying.



It's HoHo that cracks me up: "There's no proof Russia made it!".

As if Britain is supposed to say "Actually we have an employee named xxxxxx xxxxx working as a double agent in the factory".

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

> May has already received strong support from key European leaders and the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), the body responsible for the control of chemical weapons.


Care to share with us the OPCW statement? There is nothing on their official website, or is this more fake news?

----------


## OhOh

> It's just like the cold war.


More like the build up to WWI, WWII, Gulf Wars I and II, Sudan, Libya, Syria, Yemen ......




> As if Britain is supposed to say "Actually we have an employee named xxxxxx xxxxx working as a double agent in the factory".


Which factory, Porton Down? You may have missed the Russians being cleared by OPCW as being chemical weapons free or are you suggesting they have been duped by one or more countries?

Lets face it 'arry you have no facts to display to the world. The OPCW has agree protocols, that have been agreed and signed up to by the worlds governments, which are to be adhered to. The UK has not.

All hat and no cattle.

----------


## OhOh

> It's surprising that so many are swallowing it.


You posted an article from the Guardian to assist your viewpoint. Have you any facts to enlighten us with, from other sources. The article you posted has zero facts, just waffle from the uneducated.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Translation of the last two posts:

Ohoh has the hots for Putin; he can lie through his fucking teeth and OhOh will swallow it faster than his cum.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You may have missed the Russians being cleared by OPCW as being chemical weapons free



You mean I may have missed the OPCW saying that Russia had destroyed all the chemical weapons that it SAID it had.

You gullible fool.

 :Smile: 


P.S. You of all people should have remembered how Russia constantly tries to stop the OPCW doing its work when Assad has gassed more Syrians.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Of course the fact that this all takes place four days before Putin's fake election is no real surprise. He would like nothing more than for May to take RT off the airwaves so he can kick out every British journalist just before his vote rigging takes place.

And of course he can paint any truthful stories about his fixed election as responses to this "false accusation".

----------


## Klondyke

> so he can kick out every British journalist just before his vote rigging takes place.


Otherwise, his election is in tatters... behind every elector is a soldier with a gun, innit?

Reminds me Bush's saying that behind each Iraqi soldier is a Saddam's henchman (otherwise they would welcome the "liberators")

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Otherwise, his election is in tatters... behind every elector is a soldier with a gun, innit?
> 
> Reminds me Bush's saying that behind each Iraqi soldier is a Saddam's henchman (otherwise they would welcome the "liberators")


Bush? Iraqis?

You're in the wrong thread again you imbecile.

----------


## Pragmatic

> ^^ Looks like Laurence O'livier


Is that the not so well known Irish actor?    :Smile:

----------


## Hugh Cow

Just as a matter of interest Oh Oh, as you seem to be the only person who is taking the Russian side, who do you think poisoned an ex russian spy with a nerve agent? Do you have a alternative answer? I am always interested to hear an alternate view point.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Just as a matter of interest Oh Oh, as you seem to be the only person who is taking the Russian side, who do you think poisoned an ex russian spy with a nerve agent? Do you have a alternative answer? I am always interested to hear an alternate view point.


Who poisoned an ex russian spy with a Russian nerve agent....

----------


## Neo

The nerve agent was originated by the Russians, but as stated previously the agent was designed to be manufactured from easily available materials that aren't on ban list or embargo. It's therefore  not difficult to produce, add that the possibility that the agent was in storage in former Soviet sattelites such as Ukraine and that Russia  chemists involved in manufacturing such agents have defected to the West and the argument that the nerve agent is Russian therefore the perpetrator is Russian is so simplistic that only those that prefer manufactured consent would  cling to the notion as the only believable scenario.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The nerve agent was originated by the Russians, but as stated previously the agent was designed to be manufactured from easily available materials that aren't on ban list or embargo. It's therefore  not difficult to produce, add that the possibility that the agent was in storage in former Soviet sattelites such as Ukraine and that Russia  chemists involved in manufacturing such agents have defected to the West and the argument that the nerve agent is Russian therefore the perpetrator is Russian is so simplistic that only those that prefer manufactured consent would  cling to the notion as the only believable scenario.


Or, to look at it another way, the likelihood that Russia used a Russian nerve agent to try and kill a Russian enemy is far more believable than these silly false flag and other shit conspiracy theories that the forum whackjobs prefer to dredge up rather than face the obvious fucking truth.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

By the way:




> _as stated previously the agent was designed to be manufactured from easily available materials_


The inventor says "The agent can be synthesized by mixing harmless compounds together. That made it easier for Russia to produce materials for Novichok under the cover of manufacturing agricultural chemicals".

It doesn't say anything about those "harmless compounds" being "easily available".

----------


## harrybarracuda

Doesn't sound good for father and daughter:




> The agents may cause lasting nerve damage, resulting in permanent disablement of victims, according to Russian scientists.
> 
> Their effect on humans was demonstrated by the accidental exposure of Andrei Zheleznyakov, one of the scientists involved in their development, to the residue of an unspecified Novichok agent while working in a Moscow laboratory in May 1987. 
> 
> He was critically injured and took ten days to recover consciousness after the incident. He lost the ability to walk and was treated at a secret clinic in Leningrad for three months afterwards. The agent caused permanent harm, with effects that included "chronic weakness in his arms, a toxic hepatitis that gave rise to cirrhosis of the liver, epilepsy, spells of severe depression, and an inability to read or concentrate that left him totally disabled and unable to work." 
> 
> He never recovered and died in July 1992 after five years of deteriorating health.

----------


## Klondyke

It's surely very difficult for many to believe any details (or whether they are any, anyway) of the UK state propaganda machines after those many lies they had fed the public over the past years. 

Or are they now more trustful than the years of selling the Iraqi war? And all that what had happened around dr. David Kelly's death? etc...


However, admitted: here on TD they are quite trustworthy when they are supported by some like:




> You're in the wrong thread again you imbecile.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It's surely very difficult for many to believe any details (or whether they are any, anyway) of the UK state propaganda machines after those many lies they had fed the public over the past years. 
> 
> Or are they now more trustful than the years of selling the Iraqi war? And all that what had happened around dr. David Kelly's death? etc...
> 
> 
> However, admitted: here on TD they are quite trustworthy when they are supported by some like:


Unfortunately threads like these tend to attract the tin foil dribbling window lickers like this one here.

If brains were dynamite he wouldn't be able to blow his own nose.

----------


## harrybarracuda

I expect a few Brits are happily packing their bags in their Moscow apartments in readiness for an order to fly home.

And no worries about ministers or Royals attending the world cup, who wants a week in that shithole anyway?




> 23 Russian diplomats to be expelled from UK
> Prime Minister Theresa May says the Russian state was culpable in the nerve agent attack in Salisbury on former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia and is expelling 23 diplomats.
> "All who been identified as undeclared intelligence officers. They have just one week to leave," she says.
> "This will be the single biggest expulsion for over 30 years and it will reflect the fact that this is not the first time the Russian state has acted against our country."
> She says Russia's response "has shown complete disdain for the gravity of these events" and the country has offered no explanation for the Russian-made novichok nerve agent used in the attack.
> The PM says the matter has been treated with "sarcasm, contempt and defiance".
> "It must be met with a full and robust response," she says.
> "We've agreed immediate actions to dismantle the Russian espionage network in the UK."
> She says no ministers or members of the Royal Family will be attending this summer's World Cup.




https://news.sky.com/story/live-spy-...ponse-11289189

----------


## david44

oh and no England Players will be attending the final :smiley laughing: 

sorry not news.

KGB scum ice grass result, perhaps they paid agents but prepared to betray one country he has proved he is unreliable

----------


## Wilsonandson



----------


## Wilsonandson



----------


## Klondyke

Cannot find something like this on RT, so found this, not sure whether to believe "recognized MSM": 

*U.S. and Uzbeks Agree on Chemical Arms Plant Cleanup
*By JUDITH MILLER MAY 25, 1999

Earlier this year, the Pentagon informed Congress that it intends to spend up to $6 million under its Cooperative Threat Reduction program to demilitarize the so-called Chemical Research Institute, in Nukus, Uzbekistan. Soviet defectors and American officials say the Nukus plant was the major research and testing site for a new class of secret, highly lethal chemical weapons called ''Novichok,'' which in Russian means ''new guy.''

The agreement to help Uzbekistan clean up the plant is part of wide-ranging cooperation between Tashkent and Washington since the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan became independent in 1991. Yesterday, American and Uzbek officials opened a series of meetings in Tashkent, the Uzbek capital.

After touring the plant last year, inspectors from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the Hague-based agency that oversees the 1993 treaty banning chemical weapons, concluded that the institute may have tested weapons but was not a production site.

Mr. Mustafoev, the Deputy Foreign Minister, scoffed at the finding, arguing there is plenty of evidence of such work at the lab that the Soviets built in 1986, closed to all but the Russian scientists who worked there, and abandoned only in 1992. American officials agreed, noting that a senior defector from the Soviet chemical weapons program, Vil S. Mirzayanov, who worked for more than 25 years in the Soviet chemical weapons program, has told them and later said publicly that the plant was built to produce batches, for testing, of Novichok binary weapons designed to escape detection by international inspectors.

Read more
U.S. and Uzbeks Agree on Chemical Arms Plant Cleanup - The New York Times

----------


## Wilsonandson



----------


## david44

> 


?

My dear chap I trust you've not been gassed, if so please return as 

BaliBound

----------


## Neo

> Or, to look at it another way, the likelihood that Russia used a Russian nerve agent to try and kill a Russian enemy is far more believable than these silly false flag and other shit conspiracy theories that the forum whackjobs prefer to dredge up rather than face the obvious fucking truth.


floundering in your own froth there harry... the obvious fucking truth being that you're just not clever enough to think for yourself  :Yup:

----------


## misskit

*White House: Russia to blame for U.K. nerve agent attack on ex-spy*_
"The United States shares the United Kingdom’s assessment that Russia is responsible for the reckless nerve agent attack on a British citizen and his daughter, and we support the United Kingdom’s decision to expel Russian diplomats as a just response."_
— Press Secretary Sarah Sanders

https://www.axios.com/white-house-bl...40fc98e15.html

----------


## Chittychangchang

Moscow refused to meet Mrs May's midnight deadline to co-operate in the case, prompting Mrs May to announce a series of measures intended to send a "clear message" to Russia.
These include:

Expelling 23 diplomatsIncreasing checks on private flights, customs and freightFreezing Russian state assets where there is evidence they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residentsMinisters and the Royal Family boycotting the Fifa World Cup in Russia later this yearSuspending all planned high-level bilateral contacts between the UK and RussiaPlans to consider new laws to increase defences against "hostile state activity"
Mrs May told MPs that Russia had provided "no explanation" as to how the nerve agent came to be used in the UK, describing Moscow's response as one of "sarcasm, contempt and defiance".



Russian spy: UK to expel 23 Russian diplomats - BBC News

----------


## misskit

*Secret trial shows risks of nerve agent theft in post-Soviet chaos: experts*


MOSCOW/AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - The British government says Russia is to blame for poisoning former spy Sergei Skripal with a nerve agent, and most chemical weapons specialists agree.

But they say an alternative explanation cannot be ruled out: that the nerve agent got into the hands of people not acting for the Russian state.


The Soviet Union’s chemical weapons program was in such disarray in the aftermath of the Cold War that some toxic substances and know-how could have got into the hands of criminals, say people who dealt with the program at the time.


“Could somebody have smuggled something out?” said Amy Smithson, a biological and chemical weapons expert.


“I certainly wouldn’t rule that possibility out, especially a small amount and particularly in view of how lax the security was at Russian chemical facilities in the early 1990s.”



While nerve agents degrade over time, if the pre-cursor ingredients for the nerve agent were smuggled out back then, stored in proper conditions and mixed recently, they could still be deadly in a small-scale attack, two experts on chemical weapons told Reuters.


Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, remain in hospital in critical condition after being found unconscious on a bench in the city of Salisbury on March 4. A police officer was also harmed and remains in a serious condition.


British Prime Minister Theresa May said on Wednesday that “there is no alternative conclusion, other than that the Russian state was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr. Skripal and his daughter, and for threatening the lives of other British citizens.”


Russia has denied any involvement in the nerve agent attack.


*POISONED TELEPHONE*

Accounts of security deficiencies at weapons facilities indicate that, at least for a period in the 1990s, Moscow was not in firm control of its chemical weapons stockpiles or the people guarding them.


When Russian banking magnate Ivan Kivelidi and his secretary died in 1995 from organ failure after a military-grade poison was found on the telephone receiver of his Moscow office, an employee of a state chemical research institute confessed to having secretly supplied the toxin.


In a closed-door trial, Kivelidi’s business partner was convicted of poisoning Kivelidi over a dispute. At the trial, prosecutors said the business partner had obtained the poison, via several intermediaries, from Leonard Rink, an employee of a state chemical research institute known as GosNIIOKhT.


The same institute, according to Vil Mirzayanov, a Soviet chemical weapons scientist who later turned whistleblower, was part of the state chemical weapons program and helped develop the “Novichok” family of nerve agents that Britain has said was responsible for poisoning Skripal.


In a statement to investigators after his arrest, viewed by Reuters, Rink said he was in possession of poisons created as part of the chemical weapons program which he stored in his garage. On more than one occasion, he said, he sold the substances to supplement his income and pay down a debt.


The poison in the Kivelidi case was sold in a deal brokered by an ex-policeman contact of Rink’s. Rink handed over the poison, in an ampoule hidden inside a pen presentation box, in a meeting at Moscow’s Belorussky station, according to his statement.


Rink received a one-year suspended prison sentence for “misuse of powers,” according to Boris Kuznetsov, who was a lawyer for Kivelidi’s business partner during the trial.


Kuznetsov said he believed his client was innocent, and that Kivelidi was poisoned by rogue intelligence officers acting without the knowledge of the Russian president at the time, Boris Yeltsin.


He added that he would share files from the case with the British authorities, because he believed they could be relevant to the Skripal investigation.


Reuters was not able to contact Rink.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1GQ2RH

----------


## Cujo

> floundering in your own froth there harry... the obvious fucking truth being that you're just not clever enough to think for yourself


FFS, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...........

----------


## AntRobertson

I get that people are suss of their own Govt. and politicians lying etc. etc. It's quite natural in a sense.

What I don't get is the how and why of that translating into this seemingly recent development of a cult of personality type worship of Putin.

It's fucking weird.

----------


## misskit

^ The Putin worship is beyond me, also. However, I do not think Putin is so omnipotent he has direct control over all events that happens concerning Russia. 

The story I posted above describes a way the nerve agent could have gotten into the hands of others. 

I still think it quite possible he was killed by his former coworkers without Putin's knowledge.

----------


## AntRobertson

> I still think it quite possible he was killed by his former coworkers without Putin's knowledge


That's a distinct possibility. Personally I haven't really been following this whole thing all that closely so don't really have a solid opinion either way.

Just think it's weird there's this tone of: 'Don't believe the UK Govt. they're lying!'; cf. 'Yes the denials of a despot seem perfectly valid, why on earth would he lie??'

----------


## Klondyke

Can somebody help to find a reference to a court in world that sentenced somebody on an evidence "high likely"?

----------


## misskit

At any rate, Putin should be scrambling to find out by whom that man was poisoned if he doesn’t already know.

----------


## OhOh

> Ohoh has the hots for Putin; he can lie through his fucking teeth and OhOh will swallow it faster than his cum.


Projecting your own desires again 'arry?




> Russia constantly tries to stop the OPCW doing its work


Not stop harry just insisting the agreed procedures are followed to ensure a truthful outcome. We wouldn't want the OPCW to appear to be another corrupt organisation would we.




> so he can kick out every British journalist just before his vote rigging takes place


Many others will be there 'arry. Will the gullible ones be missed? Will the court of world opinion be better or worse, with or without their contripution?




> you seem to be the only person who is taking the Russian side


One hopes you analytical skills are checked by a more intelligent minder. Try reading some of the threads to which I add a sense of respectability. Try in fact to determine the issue for yourself based on a comprehensive analysis of motive, means and ability. Post your own assessment here for the interested to comment on.




> a Russian nerve agent.


The chemical compound has been publicly revealed for decades 'arry and as such one cannot truthfully say the alleged utilised agent, is of Russian origin.




> Russia used a Russian nerve agent to try and kill a Russian enemy is far more believable


For the unintelligent I agree. For those who need facts to establish a position the court has not passed the opening statements. But it seems enough for the sheeple to ratchet up for another stupid war.




> "harmless compounds" being "easily available


For those necessary items in life "easily available" is just a decision as to whom you request them from and the associated costs financial, moral or human.




> Unfortunately threads like these tend to attract the


....... brain dead who accept the opinion of others, without question and are reduced to repeating it and insulting those who politely disagree.

----------


## OhOh

> The United States shares the United Kingdom’s assessment


One hopes the ameristani decision makers have the evidence to conclude that the UK assesement is solid. If they both have such evidence possibly the OPCW would welcome a copy of the evidence etc.




> Moscow refused to mee


The Russian government ignored the demand.




> But they say an alternative explanation cannot be ruled out


Quite, but let's belittle all those whose opinion differ from mine and go to war and kill a few billion prior to making an informed decision




> if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..


My definition of "duck" may not be the same as yours.




> this seemingly recent development


Has recently been highlighted by some for their own reasons.




> I still think it quite possible


Quite, but let's belittle all those whose opinion differ from mine and  go to war and kill a few billion prior to making an informed decision




> That's a distinct possibility


Quite, but let's belittle all those whose opinion differ from mine and  go to war and kill a few billion prior to making an informed decision




> a court in world that sentenced somebody on an evidence "high likely"


The UK's Attoney General "advice", accepted as lawful by the government of the day, is

has been reason enough for the slaughtering of many brown men, women and children around the world for centuries. To many to list. I suspect all governments require some form of flag to drape around their shoulder prior to sending the gullible off to fight a "just" war.




> Putin should be scrambling


I would hope The LORD and all other world leaders are "scrambling" around to ensure this alleged problem is defused without any explosion.

----------


## Klondyke

> At any rate, Putin should be scrambling to find out by whom that man was poisoned if he doesn’t already know.


From all population all over the world, why exactly he? Any evidence other than "high likely"?

----------


## Klondyke

Jeremy Corbyn has the guts to be heckled by majority of the MP's whilst the PM's answer to him (not presented by TheGuardian) was full of lies...



Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn also stressed the need to involve the OPCW, which is based at the Hague, in investigating what he called an appalling act of violence. He said: Nerve agents are abominable if used in any war. It is utterly reckless to use them in a civilian environment.

Some other Labour MPs offered the prime minister more unequivocal backing  as did the Scottish National partys Westminster leader, Ian Blackford, who said: There has to be a robust response to the use of terror on our streets. We must act in a measured way to show that we will simply not tolerate this behaviour.

May repeatedly underlined the support of international allies, including Donald Trump, and German chancellor Angela Merkel.

But Corbyns cautious response found an echo in Paris, with President Emmanuel Macrons spokesman Benjamin Griveaux saying it was too early for Paris to decide whether action should be taken.

We dont do fantasy politics. Once the elements are proven, then the time will come for decisions to be made, Griveaux told reporters.

Griveaux said France was waiting for definitive conclusions, and evidence that the facts were completely true, before taking a position.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-spy-poisoning

----------


## Klondyke

*ANTHRAX JOB (anybody looking for a JAB?)*

(another example reminding me what happened 15 years ago...)

British Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson is also set to announce a new £48m chemical weapons facility at the Porton Down laboratory in Wiltshire and confirm that all UK troops will receive an anthrax jab.

Russian spy incident: Theresa May moves to dismantle Russian spy ?network? expelling 23 diplomats | The Independent

----------


## wasabi

Anthrax jab, no Jesus,  just what made Timothy McVeigh and other ^ Gulf war one veterans to get sick by this shocking injection that didn't work and so why give it to British troops. Why?

----------


## david44

The last mass expulsion of alleged Russian spies from London took place in September 1985, at the height of the cold war, when the British government ordered 25 Soviet diplomats to leave.

It triggered a wave of tit-for-tat expulsions that were halted only after the British ambassador in Moscow, irate at facing the effective closure of his embassy, pleaded with ministers to quit while they were ahead. “Never engage in a pissing match with a skunk, he possesses important natural advantages,” Sir Bryan Cartledge advised in a telegram to London.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> floundering in your own froth there harry... the obvious fucking truth being that you're just not clever enough to think for yourself


No, I'm just not gullible enough to believe any old fucking nonsense just because I have a boy crush on some former KGB boss.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Jeremy Corbyn has the guts to be heckled by majority of the MP's whilst the PM's answer to him (not presented by TheGuardian) was full of lies...


I think you mean "Comrade Corbyn does his usual and protects foreign adversaries who pay him".

----------


## Pragmatic

> Porton Down laboratory Wiltshire and confirm that all UK troops will receive an anthrax jab.


 Not unusual for military to be tested on with new medicines. I was seconded to Porton Down in the early 70's and undertook trials of 'Atropine' self administered using autoinjectors and also CS gas. All voluntary due to receiving financial inducements.  :bananaman:

----------


## cyrille

> I think you mean "Comrade Corbyn does his usual and protects foreign adversaries who pay him".



Good that you don't let facts get in your way there, Harry. Unlike named people I guess you won't have to apologise publically for such nonsense.

No wonder you and Klondick don't get along: you're two sides of the same valueless coin.

----------


## OhOh

> I think you mean "Comrade Corbyn does his usual and protects foreign adversaries who pay him".


I presume you have a list indicating amounts, payer and dates in your hand for us to "determine", "in our opinion" the "validity" prior to us to "take a position". Or should we await a vote at the UNSC?

----------


## OhOh

> undertook trials of 'Atropine' self administered using autoinjectors and also CS gas


Any others to admit before we determine our opinion as to if they, alone, led to your current mental status?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Good that you don't let facts get in your way there, Harry. Unlike named people I guess you won't have to apologise publically for such nonsense.
> 
> No wonder you and Klondick don't get along: you're two sides of the same valueless coin.


I would suggest you simply google ""Corbyn Russia TV" or "Corbyn Press TV", you simpleton.

Comrade Corbyn doesn't care who fucking pays him, he just takes the money and reads the script.

I'm sure HoHo knows how to use Google as well.

As one Labour backbencher said:




> _“Putin’s constant and shameful apologist might just as well stand aside and let the Russian ambassador write the speeches and brief the media himself.”_


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ssia-statement

----------


## Klondyke

> Good that you don't let facts get in your way there, Harry. Unlike named people I guess you won't have to apologise publically for such nonsense.
> 
> No wonder you and Klondick don't get along: you're two sides of the same valueless coin.


I have yet to see the "facts" of the "same valueless coin", perhaps you did?

----------


## Klondyke

Cannot remember whether a UNSC meeting had been urgently called after the Diana "accident" in Paris? 

However, it was (too) very fast found the driver was drunk, no foul play (of a foreign power) involved.

Therefore, the case could be closed. How convenient (for the loved ones) ...

----------


## OhOh

> I'm sure HoHo knows how to use Google as well.


I suspect many in the world understand the dangers of utilising foreign regime funded apps and utilise other methods in their daily lives.

From your linked article:

_"__In the Commons, Corbyn stressed the need to gather evidence and abide  by international law, underlining the role of the Organisation for the  Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), based in The Hague._
_He said: “If the government believes that it is still a possibility  that Russia negligently lost control of a military-grade nerve agent,  what action is being taken through the OPCW with our allies?”

_
_Corbyn then asked: “How has she responded to the Russian government’s request for a sample of the agent used in the Salisbury attack, to run its own tests?”

_
_May attacked Corbyn, saying the Russians had already been given the  chance to explain where the nerve agent had come from and that the  government had sought consensus."

_Corbyn suggests following International Laws, Rules and Treaties but May and others would find that difficult as they already know the truth is not as they are "suggesting", not claiming is a fact.

Corbyn asks, as he has the right to, what actions the UK government, and others, have taken with the respect of the Russians request to follow OPCW rules. But May does not answer!

May suggests that the UK government has "given Russia the chance" to act outside the International Laws, Rules and Treaties but Russia replies we are "within the International Laws, Rules and Treaties" as described by the Russian Ambassador to OPCW a few days ago.

Not a lot of clarity or truth there from the current UK PM/ameristani vassal 'arry.

As for some politicians of one particular party "suggesting" there leader is wrong, are they Privy Councillors? Are they able to access the Top Secret information that Corbyn is privy to? Do they have another agenda in this fight?

Watch for mysterious deaths of OPCW members who will not follow the "agreed" with no evidence UK staement. 

How is the POCW governed, is it a unanimous consensus, do some members have extra "voting" weight or maybe just a majority of members voting for one "consensus"?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _Corbyn then asked: “How has she responded to the Russian government’s request for a sample of the agent used in the Salisbury attack, to run its own tests?”_


There is little point in giving it to Russia - they will just lie as usual. That is what they are, perennial liars.

So Boris Johnson has announced that a sample will be given to the OPCW.

Of course Russia will then say that the OPCW are the liars.

All of which our forum whackjobs will eagerly lap up.

And since when was Comrade Corbyn an expert on foreign affairs, other than the ones who've paid him to extol their murderous virtues?

----------


## Klondyke

> There is little point in giving it to Russia - they will just lie as usual. That is what they are, perennial liars.


 e.g. how they lied about Iraq?   :Smile: 




> So Boris Johnson has announced that a sample will be given to the OPCW.
> 
> Of course Russia will then say that the OPCW are the liars.



Russia asked to get OPCW involved.

Boris: "You did not respond, we won't give you no sample"...  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> So Boris Johnson has announced that a sample will be given to the OPCW.


The UK has fucked this up badly.

It clearly states the "samples" have to be from the original "event site" and collected by OPCW inspectors. Or are you suggesting anything the UK hands over will be accepted as untainted? To suggest that Boris will hand over samples is ludicrous and also outside the OPCW rules.

That farce has already been tried in war torn Syria and failed. 

You may be interested in this document from the OPCW web site.

*Part XI. Investigations in Cases of Alleged Use of Chemical Weapons*

https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapon...annex/part-xi/

Parts of the OPCW page.

_"3. The request for an investigation of an alleged use of chemical  weapons to be submitted to the Director-General, to the extent possible,  should include the following information:

(a) The State Party on whose territory use of chemical weapons is alleged to have taken place; 

(b) The point of entry or other suggested safe routes of access; 

(c) Location and characteristics of the areas where chemical weapons are alleged to have been used; 

(d) When chemical weapons are alleged to have been used; 

(e) Types of chemical weapons believed to have been used; 

(f) Extent of alleged use; 

(g) Characteristics of the possible toxic chemicals; 

(h) Effects on humans, animals and vegetation; 

(i) Request for specific assistance, if applicable.

4. The State Party which has requested an investigation may submit at any time any additional information it deems necessary.

12. If the inspection team has not been dispatched within 24 hours  from the receipt of the request, the Director-General shall inform the  Executive Council and the States Parties concerned about the reasons for  the delay.
__
Sampling
_
_16. The inspection team  shall have the right to collect samples of types, and in quantities it  considers necessary. If the inspection team deems it necessary, and if  so requested by it, the inspected State Party shall assist in the  collection of samples under the supervision of inspectors or inspection  assistants. The inspected State Party shall also permit and cooperate in  the collection of appropriate control samples from areas neighbouring  the site of the alleged use and from other areas as requested by the  inspection team. "_

Having contaminated the site with hundreds of squaddies, having handled any "samples" .......... nullifies any evidence "given too" anybody.

 Do you not see the hole that the UK and all it's naysayers have dug themselves?  Bloody amateurs.

That is the internationally agreed procedure, laws or rules with agreed method of collecting, analysing and report writing/delivery.

But as we know ameristan and it's vassals are truly unexceptional, stuffed up to their eyebrows with pig shit. They will blow up some innocent people and declare victory.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> e.g. how they lied about Iraq?


Again, imbecile, this thread is not about Iraq, Saudi Arabia or whatever else your fucking ADHD conjures up.





> Russia asked to get OPCW involved.



Imbecile.




> Russia will not co-operate with the UK inquiry into how an ex-spy and his daughter were poisoned until it has been given a sample of the substance used, its foreign minister has said.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The UK has fucked this up badly.
> 
> It clearly states the "samples" have to be from the original "event site" and collected by OPCW inspectors.


Clearly that is aimed at war zones, not a crime scene in Salisbury.

The obvious purpose behind it being to ensure that the likes of Assad don't get a chance to clean up after they've gassed their own people, or send the OPCW some air freshener rather than the Sarin they actually used.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Shouldn't be long before Putin's paid stooges are out on the streets "protesting the UK".

Then, if anyone is out on the streets later protesting against Putin's fake election, they can pretend they are "protesting the UK" as well.

You have to hand it to him, he's fucking sharp.

Hey Ohoh and Klondyke, I'd email the Kremlin and say you are avid RT viewers and in love with Putin. They might give you May and William's World Cup Final tickets.

 :Smile: 




> *Russia’s foreign minister has declared the country will expel British diplomats “soon” as it moves to match the UK’s aggressive stance.
> *Sergei Lavrov told Russian media the expulsions would “definitely” happen.
> 
> The announcement follows suit with the UK, with Prime Minister Theresa May having confirmed yesterday that 23 Russian envoys would be made to leave Britain within a week.
> 
> Mrs May also revoked an invitation to Russia’s foreign minister and said the Royal family would not attend the FIFA World Cup in Russia later this year.

----------


## OhOh

> Clearly that is aimed at war zones, not a crime scene in Salisbury.





> The obvious purpose behind it being to


"clearly", "obviously" your own interpretations are wrong.

Bollocks. Can you not read the attached post arm yourself with some facts and absorb a little common sense before you drop into projection mode?

First Item:

_"A. General

1. Investigations of alleged use of chemical weapons, or of alleged use of riot control agents as a method of warfare,"_

Note the only comma 'arry.

Any use of CW can be used by any state to request the OPCW investigate any alleged incident. I suspect by the state in it's own country where it occurred, or otherwise.




> Hey Ohoh and Klondyke, I'd email the Kremlin and say you are avid RT viewers and in love with Putin.


Oh dear 'arry give it up.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> "clearly", "obviously" your own interpretations are wrong.


If you are going to quote shit, I would strongly recommend you try reading it.

You know, words like "If" and "Applicable" are as important as the other ones.




> 6. _If applicable_, the Director-General shall notify the State Party on whose territory an investigation has been requested. The Director-General shall also notify other States Parties _if_ access to their territories might be required during the investigation.


In this example, the OPCW clearly trust the British and their ability to properly process a crime scene.




> Oh dear 'arry give it up.


I'm sorry, but the only way to deal with your criminal stupidity is mostly with humour.

----------


## Neo

> Shouldn't be long before Putin's paid stooges are out on the streets "protesting the UK".


Another "Reds under the beds" moment from harry the lamb. 

Most Russians are beyond giving a fuck ages ago, the country has accepted that it is wishful thinking to presume the West may want a mutually beneficial long term partnership and have adjusted their aspirations and economy accordingly. 

The current climate of anti Russian hysteria is not aimed at Russia, it's target is the pacified spoon fed populations of the West. 

After all.. how can you sell more weapons in a future where everyone is getting along together.?

----------


## Klondyke

> Shouldn't be long before Putin's paid stooges are out on the streets "protesting the UK".
> 
> Then, if anyone is out on the streets later protesting against Putin's fake election, they can pretend they are "protesting the UK" as well.
> 
> You have to hand it to him, he's fucking sharp.
> 
> Hey Ohoh and Klondyke, I'd email the Kremlin and say you are avid RT viewers and in love with Putin. They might give you May and William's World Cup Final tickets.


There is surely a cure for such ailment, don't give up...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Another "Reds under the beds" moment from harry the lamb. 
> 
> Most Russians are beyond giving a fuck ages ago, the country has accepted that it is wishful thinking to presume the West may want a mutually beneficial long term partnership and have adjusted their aspirations and economy accordingly. 
> 
> The current climate of anti Russian hysteria is not aimed at Russia, it's target is the pacified spoon fed populations of the West. 
> 
> After all.. how can you sell more weapons in a future where everyone is getting along together.?


Most Russians can only believe what they are told to believe on account of Putin controlling everything they see and hear.

The problem is forum whackjobs like yourselves unflinchingly believe the same propaganda, despite actually having the freedom to view any media you like.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> There is surely a cure for such ailment, don't give up...


Sadly for you, there is no cure for terminal cretinism.

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## OhOh

I went to a linked OPCW report dated April 2013, some years after the new Russia was put together. In it they are unable to verify anything about the alleged weapon. The SAB is the Scientific  Advisory  Board of OPCW.

REPORT OF THE SCIENTIFIC ADVISORY BOARD ON DEVELOPMENTS IN SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY FOR THE THIRD REVIEW CONFERENCE  



"Schedules of Chemicals 

8.


The  Convention  contains  in  the  Annex  on Chemicals  three  schedules  listing  the chemicals  which  fall  under  routine  verification  by  the  OPCW. The  SAB made  no specific  recommendation  regarding  a  review  or  an  amendment  of  these  schedules  as has  been  proposed  by  some  observers.    It emphasised  that  the  definition  of  toxic chemicals in the Convention would cover all potential candidate chemicals that might be  utilised  as  chemical  weapons.    Regarding  new  toxic chemicals  not listed  in  the Annex  on  Chemicals  but  which  may  nevertheless  pose  a  risk  to  the  Convention,  the SAB makes reference to “Novichoks”.  The name “Novichok” is used in a publication of  a  former  Soviet  scientist  who  reported  investigating  a new  class  of  nerve  agents suitable  for  use  as  binary  chemical  weapons. The  SAB  states  that it  has  insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of “Novichoks”.

----------


## Neo

> The problem is forum whackjobs like yourselves unflinchingly believe the same propaganda, despite actually having the freedom to view any media you like.


So full of irony that I wonder sometimes if you are just trolling  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I went to a linked OPCW report dated April 2013, some years after the new Russia was put together. In it they are unable to verify anything about the alleged weapon.


Well jolly dee, there's a surprise!

I don't suppose that's because Russia refuses to even admit to the OPCW that it has it, does it?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So full of irony that I wonder sometimes if you are just trolling


It's OK, as I said in the other thread, there is a name for your condition.

 :Smile:

----------


## Chittychangchang

One things for sure, if the England goes to the world cup, there's going to be plenty of casualties. .

----------


## misskit

*Russia says Britain must have its own supply of the ‘Novichok’ nerve agent and could have supplied what poisoned Skripal*Vasily Nebenzya, Russia’s permanent representative to the United Nations, says Britain could be the source of the nerve agent used to poison former GRU Colonel Sergey Skripal and his daughter.


Speaking at a session of the UN Security Council called by London, Nebenzya argued that “more than 200 open sources” confirm that Western intelligence agencies “extracted” several Russian specialists who developed the chemical weapon, and later recreated and began testing the nerve agent themselves.


The Russian diplomat says chemical weapons “of this type” were also developed and produced at the British Defense Ministry laboratory in Porton that identified the chemical used to poison Skripal. According to Nebenzya, the British would have needed a sample of the nerve agent to identify what poisoned the former spy. Russia’s UN representative also complained that the British investigation into Skripal’s case is being conducted “non-transparently.”


Afterwards, the UK blocked a joint Security Council statementprepared by Russian diplomats, adding amendments that “distorted the meaning of the document,” Moscow says. The statement expressed “deep concern regarding information that a nerve agent was supposedly used” in Great Britain, and called on all interested nations to “consult and cooperate in the investigation of this matter.”


*What triggered this UN Security Council session?*The British called for it after Prime Minister Theresa May suspended high-level government contacts with the Russian Federation and announced the expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats, following Moscow’s refusal to explain how a Russian nerve agent was used to poison Skripal, his daughter, and several others in the Salisbury area on March 4.


Skripal spied for MI6 for nine years, before the Russian authorities caught him and imprisoned him for treason. He was later included in a spy swap that sent him to England in 2010, where he’s lived ever since.


The Kremlin has denied any role in his poisoning and responded angrily to the British government’s allegations. On March 15, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Moscow would retaliateby expelling several British diplomats, though he didn’t initially say how many.


https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/03/15...isoned-skripal

----------


## OhOh

Good factual point. Thanks

----------


## AntRobertson

What's the factual point of that article?

----------


## OhOh

> What's the factual point of that article?





> According to Nebenzya, the British *would have needed a sample* of the nerve agent to identify what poisoned the former spy.


There own UK or country with whom they have the most special relationship ever according to the hatly hag, created sample. To compare/confirm with/against the "evidence". The alleged chemical weapons "only available from non-existent Russian sources" which contaminated the following objects, on a quiet street in Salisbury, England one cold winters day:

1. The alleged crime scene - restaurant, street, seat, pavement ........
2. The "criminally attacked" British and Russian citizens
3, All the first responders who would have been contaminated
4, The accidental doctor and nurse who were first on the scene
5. All the hospital staff the criminally attacked" British and Russian citizens, all the first  responders, the Doctor and nurse who  were first on the scene came into contact with, who would have been contaminated
6. Not forgetting the hundreds of squaddies tasked with cleaning up the area, to sanitise and prevent an official UN mandated OPCW team from performing their internationally agreed procedures.
7. Any UK royalty who turned up for a photo shoot opportunity
8. Any UK politician who turned up for a photo shoot opportunity
9. The grave yard allegedly contaminated
10. The world renowned, unbiased, TD CID Supervisor, 'arry; flown in at great expense from his ME black ops site to express    his opinion  :Smile: 

You know, to stop any real, verifiable, factual, UN OPCW inspection and rely on "tainted" evidence from a country who has history in sexing up info to manage legal opinion rulers, the sheeple, allowing the slaughter millions of innocent civilians around the world and at home.

----------


## Pragmatic

> What's the factual point of that article?


 I would have thought  


> the British would have needed a sample of the nerve agent to identify what poisoned the former spy.


 ?

----------


## PAG

> I think you mean "Comrade Corbyn does his usual and protects foreign adversaries who pay him".

----------


## AntRobertson

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> What's the factual point of that article?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like an opinion to me.

----------


## Klondyke

We will not give you no fckukig sample! 
You did it and that's it. 
You want what? We will give you our dossier. 
Then you can shut up as you shut up 15 years ago and with you all the others. 
Shut up and go away...

----------


## OhOh

> Looks like an opinion to me.


If you are a chemical weapons specialist analyst, your own opinion may have some weight.

Ootherwise you carry the same weight as 'arry , opinion wise.

 :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

> If you are a chemical weapons specialist chemist, your own opinion may have some weight, otherwise you carry the same weight as 'arry , opinion wise.


I'm not. Neither, I presume, are you and nor is Mr. Nebenzya.

What I do know however is that opinions aren't facts and how to distinguish between the two.

----------


## OhOh

> We will not give you no fckukig sample!


May has said on a number of occasions let me see yours first big boy.Then we can offer you some choices.

1. The ex USSR site in Uzbekistan picked up when we assisted in the site clean-up years ago.
2. The ameristani produced one - 2017
3. The Israeli produces one - 2016
4. The UK produced one - Feb 2018 (fresh and fully potancy tested
5. The French produced one - only available in Jeraboam size Champagne bottles (aimed at the Oriental market primarily)

We also have samples of the Australian and Ukrainian but there is doubt about the lethal dosage required. The Oz state 2 lt/100 Kg body weight which we deem excessive but their sheilas are plumpish. The Ukrainian sample is only delivered via an anal bleaching agent, which obviously no sane Brit would ever use.

 :Smile:

----------


## PAG

This event also has to take into account Russia's previous in the Alexander Litvinenko assassination in London in 2006, the prime suspect for which is now a Russian MP, with the Russians refusing to co-operate in his extradition to aid the investigation.

Problem with this latest attack, the UK has sufficient knowledge of the nerve agent to be able to name it's group, and to invite the Russians to participate in the investigation is frankly ludicrous as there is a high risk that the UK's sources of information would be compromised.   Porton Down, the UK's NBCW centre, is a world leader in it's sphere of knowledge and expertise, and from whom the UK Government and investigating agencies will be taking direction, and I personally have no doubt that their findings will be verified by the OPCW once they have themselves analysed samples.

That the US, Germany and France have joined with the UK in a joint statement condemning Russia for this act, in spite of current relations between these 4 nations not being at their most cohesive, has to be taken in the context that they would not have done so had there been any possibility that the attack was carried out by a third party or indeed the UK itself.

No doubt there is more to come on this, particularly when the exact location of where and how the agent was administered is revealed.

----------


## OhOh

Is it your opinion that; to ensure a correct validation/comparison of one chemical agent, a known, verified example of the chemical agent, is a factual requirement?

----------


## PAG

> Is it your opinion that; to ensure a correct validation/comparison of one chemical agent, a known, verified example of the chemical agent, is a factual requirement?


I think that it has to be borne in mind that these are banned substances so verified examples of them, as opposed to knowledge of their chemical composition is highly likely.   I think the ultimate question is whether the UK Government is to be believed in it's assessment.   Personally, I do, as apparently do the leaders of the US, Germany and France.

On the point of the UK's erroneous assessment of the Iraq MWD fiasco, there can be no comparison.   This was not a rumour, nor an supposed intelligence gathering to seek out the possibility of the existence of a chemical.   This was an actual attack which has led to 3 people being hospitalised and reportedly lucky to still be alive.   Hopefully, they'll all make a full recovery, not least because they will be able to shed further information of potential contact locations and means.

----------


## harrybarracuda

The British have already said they will be giving the OPCW all information related to the attack.

OhOh seems to think the British have either faked this attack or staged it.

But then again, he is a bit of a whackjob.

----------


## OhOh

> This event also has to take into account Russia's previous in the Alexander Litvinenko assassination in London in 2006, the prime suspect for which is now a Russian MP,


Proven where, in a UK court in secret?




> Russians to participate in the investigation is frankly ludicrous as there is a high risk that the UK's sources of information would be compromised


Of course the nearest suspect, the UK agencies, is equally ludicrous, yes? Only the UN OPCW team are considered independent, when the internationally agreed procedures are followed, scrupulously. That was the down fall in the alleged Syrian CWA.




> I personally have no doubt that their findings will be verified by the OPCW once they have themselves analysed samples.


Your opinion will no doubt be crucial to the investigation, when it takes place.




> That the US, Germany and France have joined with the UK in a joint statement condemning Russia for this act


The French have not agreed the fact that Russia is to blame, they are waiting, as Russia is, for the official investigation to take place. Which however has already been compromised by the UK authorities. They have strongly attached the the CWA, whoever commited it.

"The leaders of Britain, the US, Germany  and France have released a joint statement *strongly condemning* the  Salisbury nerve agent attack as “an assault on UK sovereignty” and * saying it is highly likely Russia was behind it*."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/france

No court in a civilised world would send a country to war, well except for some western warmongers, with only "highly likely" evidence. As we saw in the sexed up evidence used to start the GWI and II. But you probably accept it was a legal war.

----------


## bsnub

> OhOh seems to think the British have either faked this attack or staged it.


Really absurd. Only a putin worshiper could be stupid enough to buy into something like that.

----------


## OhOh

> OhOh seems to think the British


I have not stated that. 

I await, as always, the report from the OPCW. Although I have stated that an investigation appears to be impossible now that the UK cover-up operation has totally muddied the waters.

The UK has the greatest opportunity
The UK has the ability
The UK may have a motive.

But as none of this can be proven, now. They are as potentially guilty as anyone with the ability to purchase the Russian CW expert's book available online, with allegedly the CW in questions formulae in it, a lab and the precursor chemicals.

----------


## OhOh

> Only a putin worshiper


A believer in facts, not person. Unlike the ameristanis, who appear to be that way inclined.

----------


## Hugh Cow

Obviously a cunning plan by the British government to poison their own spy and blame it on the Russians. May needed a plan to distract people from how she has cocked up the Brexit negotiations. She can now happily go on getting rogered by Barnier while everyone is tut tutting at the Russians. Mystery solved.
 Shirlock Cow to the rescue yet again.

----------


## OhOh

> these are banned substances so verified examples of them


Care to share your source for who "banned" this named/unamed/undocumented substance and where it identified and agreed as a "banned" substance?

As I previously posted there is an OPCW document which discusses an unknown Russian substance but at the time 2013 they had no details of it and currently do not include the unamed substance in their own banned list.

The OPCW helpfully provides an Annex which describes, in the schedules 1, 2, and 3, the agreed, named CW and their precursors. The web pages may be viewed here:

https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapon...-on-chemicals/

https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/annexes/annex-on-chemicals/schedule-1/

https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/annexes/annex-on-chemicals/schedule-2/

https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapon...ls/schedule-3/

----------


## OhOh

> Shirlock Cow to the rescue yet again.


One possibility.

Another is the attempt by the UK company/nationals Orbis Intelligence aka Christopher Steele/Pablo Miller, both lived around Salisbury, both ex MI6 who were stationed in Moscow. They produced a dossier for the Clinton camp used to discredit the ameristani President. 

Another is Israel's Mossad. They certainly have a motive. Destroy Russian standing in the middle east

Another is ameristan they have a motive. Just destroy Russia.

To suggest the Russians planned and possibly executed an attempt on an ex Russian spy and a Russian citizen a week before the Russian elections is ludicrous. The 2018 World Cup scheduled for this summer. Both high profike events.

What benefit do they accrue?

An ex UK Ambassador with experience of UK adoption of dirty methods has his views here for those with enquiring minds:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...ge-1/#comments

----------


## PAG

> Care to share your source for who "banned" this named/unamed/undocumented substance and where it identified and agreed as a "banned" substance?
> 
> As I previously posted there is an OPCW document which discusses an unknown Russian substance but at the time 2013 they had no details of it and currently do not include the unamed substance in their own banned list.
> 
> The OPCW helpfully provides an Annex which describes, in the schedules 1, 2, and 3, the agreed, named CW and their precursors. The web pages may be viewed here:
> 
> https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapon...-on-chemicals/
> 
> https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/annexes/annex-on-chemicals/schedule-1/
> ...


At the risk of feeding what appears to be a troll habit you're developing, my referral to 'banned substances' was a reference to generic chemical weapon samples.   Whether the UK or other governments had samples of what appears to be an undeclared CW who knows, though they appear to have sufficient knowledge of it's group to give it a name.   

The UK, as with most countries, are concerned with the establishment and production of antidotes to chemical weapons, not the manufacture of CW per se.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> At the risk of feeding what appears to be a troll habit you're developing, my referral to 'banned substances' was a reference to generic chemical weapon samples.   Whether the UK or other governments had samples of what appears to be an undeclared CW who knows, though they appear to have sufficient knowledge of it's group to give it a name.   
> 
> The UK, as with most countries, are concerned with the establishment and production of antidotes to chemical weapons, not the manufacture of CW per se.


And, as I've already told him, the OPCW can't categorise or ban it because Russia has never provided a sample.

That may partially change when the UK have handed over what they have.

Not that it will make much difference because Russia won't admit they've got it, especially now.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

HoHo describes himself as:




> A believer in facts


And this is an example of one of HoHo's "Facts".




> I have stated that an investigation appears to be impossible now that the UK cover-up operation has totally muddied the waters.


Completely fucking delusional.

 :rofl:

----------


## crackerjack101



----------


## Neo

The same people who assured you that Saddam Hussein had WMD’s now assure you Russian “novochok” nerve agents are being wielded by Vladimir Putin to attack people on British soil. As with the Iraqi WMD dossier, it is essential to comb the evidence very finely. A vital missing word from Theresa May’s statement yesterday was “only”. She did not state that the nerve agent used was manufactured ONLY by Russia. She rather stated this group of nerve agents had been “developed by” Russia. Antibiotics were first developed by a Scotsman, but that is not evidence that all antibiotics are today administered by Scots.

The “novochok” group of nerve agents – a very loose term simply for a collection of new nerve agents the Soviet Union were developing fifty years ago – will almost certainly have been analysed and reproduced by Porton Down. That is entirely what Porton Down is there for. It used to make chemical and biological weapons as weapons, and today it still does make them in small quantities in order to research defences and antidotes. After the fall of the Soviet Union Russian chemists made a lot of information available on these nerve agents. And one country which has always manufactured very similar persistent nerve agents is Israel. This Foreign Policy magazine (a very establishment US publication) article on Israel‘s chemical and biological weapon capability is very interesting indeed. I will return to Israel later in this article.

Incidentally, novachok is not a specific substance but a class of new nerve agents. Sources agree they were designed to be persistent, and of an order of magnitude stronger than sarin or VX. That is rather hard to square with the fact that thankfully nobody has died and those possibly in contact just have to wash their clothes.

From Putin’s point of view, to assassinate Skripal now seems to have very little motivation. If the Russians have waited eight years to do this, they could have waited until after their World Cup. The Russians have never killed a swapped spy before. Just as diplomats, British and otherwise, are the most ardent upholders of the principle of diplomatic immunity, so security service personnel everywhere are the least likely to wish to destroy a system which can be a key aspect of their own personal security; quite literally spy swaps are their “Get Out of Jail Free” card. You don’t undermine that system – probably terminally – without very good reason.

It is worth noting that the “wicked” Russians gave Skripal a far lighter jail sentence than an American equivalent would have received. If a member of US Military Intelligence had sold, for cash to the Russians, the names of hundreds of US agents and officers operating abroad, the Americans would at the very least jail the person for life, and I strongly suspect would execute them. Skripal just received a jail sentence of 18 years, which is hard to square with the narrative of implacable vindictiveness against him. If the Russians had wanted to make an example, that was the time.

It is much more probable that the reason for this assassination attempt refers to something recent or current, than to spying twenty years ago. Were I the British police, I would inquire very closely into Orbis Intelligence.

There is no doubt that Skripal was feeding secrets to MI6 at the time that Christopher Steele was an MI6 officer in Moscow, and at the the time that Pablo Miller, another member of Orbis Intelligence, was also an MI6 officer in Russia and directly recruiting agents. It is widely reported on the web and in US media that it was Miller who first recruited Skripal. My own ex-MI6 sources tell me that is not quite true as Skripal was “walk-in”, but that Miller certainly was involved in running Skripal for a while. Sadly Pablo Miller’s LinkedIn profile has recently been deleted, but it is again widely alleged on the web that it showed him as a consultant for Orbis Intelligence and a consultant to the FCO and – wait for it – with an address in Salisbury. If anyone can recover that Linkedin entry do get in touch, though British Government agencies will have been active in the internet scrubbing.

It was of course Christopher Steele and Orbis Intelligence who produced for the Clinton camp the sensationalist dossier on Trump links with Russia – including the story of Trump paying to be urinated on by Russian prostitutes – that is a key part of the “Russiagate” affair gripping the US political classes. The extraordinary thing about this is that the Orbis dossier is obvious nonsense which anybody with a professional background can completely demolish, as I did here. Steele’s motive was, like Skripal’s in selling his secrets, cash pure and simple. Steele is a charlatan who knocked up a series of allegations that are either wildly improbable, or would need a high level source access he could not possibly get in today’s Russia, or both. He told the Democrats what they wish to hear and his audience – who had and still have no motivation to look at it critically – paid him highly for it.

I do not know for certain that Pablo Miller helped knock together the Steele dossier on Trump, but it seems very probable given he also served for MI6 in Russia and was working for Orbis. And it seems to me even more probable that Sergei Skripal contributed to the Orbis Intelligence dossier on Trump. Steele and Miller cannot go into Russia and run sources any more, and never would have had access as good as their dossier claims, even in their MI6 days. The dossier was knocked up for huge wodges of cash from whatever they could cobble together. Who better to lend a little corroborative verisimilitude in these circumstances than their old source Skripal?

Skripal was at hand in the UK, and allegedly even close to Miller in Salisbury. He could add in the proper acronym for a Russian committee here or the name of a Russian official there, to make it seem like Steele was providing hard intelligence. Indeed, Skripal’s outdated knowledge might explain some of the dossier’s more glaring errors.

But the problem with double agents like Skripal, who give intelligence for money, is that they can easily become triple agents and you never know when a better offer is going to come along. When Steele produced his dodgy dossier, he had no idea it would ever become so prominent and subject to so much scrutiny. Steele is fortunate in that the US Establishment is strongly motivated not to scrutinise his work closely as their one aim is to “get” Trump. But with the stakes very high, having a very loose cannon as one of the dossier’s authors might be most inconvenient both for Orbis and for the Clinton camp.

If I was the police, I would look closely at Orbis Intelligence.

To return to Israel. Israel has the nerve agents. Israel has Mossad which is extremely skilled at foreign assassinations. Theresa May claimed Russian propensity to assassinate abroad as a specific reason to believe Russia did it. Well Mossad has an even greater propensity to assassinate abroad. And while I am struggling to see a Russian motive for damaging its own international reputation so grieviously, Israel has a clear motivation for damaging the Russian reputation so grieviously. Russian action in Syria has undermined the Israeli position in Syria and Lebanon in a fundamental way, and Israel has every motive for damaging Russia’s international position by an attack aiming to leave the blame on Russia.

Both the Orbis and Israeli theories are speculations. But they are no more a speculation, and no more a conspiracy theory, than the idea that Vladimir Putin secretly sent agents to Salisbury to attack Skripal with a secret nerve agent. I can see absolutely no reason to believe that is a more valid speculation than the others at this point.

I am alarmed by the security, spying and armaments industries’ frenetic efforts to stoke Russophobia and heat up the new cold war. I am especially alarmed at the stream of cold war warrior “experts” dominating the news cycles. I write as someone who believes that agents of the Russian state did assassinate Litvinenko, and that the Russian security services carried out at least some of the apartment bombings that provided the pretext for the brutal assault on Chechnya. I believe the Russian occupation of Crimea and parts of Georgia is illegal. On the other hand, in Syria Russia has saved the Middle East from domination by a new wave of US and Saudi sponsored extreme jihadists.

The naive view of the world as “goodies” and “baddies”, with our own ruling class as the good guys, is for the birds. I witnessed personally in Uzbekistan the willingness of the UK and US security services to accept and validate intelligence they knew to be false in order to pursue their policy objectives. We should be extremely sceptical of their current anti-Russian narrative. There are many possible suspects in this attack.


https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...ge-1/#comments

Interesting read.. perhaps even for the birds

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The same people who assured you that Saddam Hussein had WMD’s now assure you Russian “novochok” nerve agents are being wielded by Vladimir Putin to attack people on British soil.


The reason they knew Saddam had WMDs was because they had the receipts.

 :Smile: 

Meanwhile UEFA get in an early April Fools Joke by drawing Arsenal to play CSKA Moscow.

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Breaking News: Wenger says Arsenal will be taking their own teabags.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...ge-1/#comments
> 
> Interesting read.. perhaps even for the birds


And a brutal response from an actual fucking chemist.

http://www.iflscience.com/chemistry/...spy-to-shreds/

----------


## OhOh

Thanks 'arry for the info.

----------


## misskit

*Moscow is launching its own Skripal investigation, plus another one into the death of a former Berezovsky ally*On Friday, Russian federal agents announced that they are formally investigating two crimes: the use of a “generally dangerous method” to try to kill Yulia Skripal in the English town of Salisbury, and the supposed murder of Nikolai Glushkov in London.


Yulia Skripal remains in serious condition in an English hospital after being exposed to a nerve agent with her father, a former Russian intelligence colonel who spied for MI6. Nikolai Glushkov, a former friend and associate of the late Boris Berezovsky, was found dead in his apartment on March 13. British investigators are reportedly treating his death as a likely suicide.


The nerve agent that poisoned Sergey Skripal was planted in his daughter’s suitcase before she left Moscow, British intelligence agencies told The Telegraph. Officials in Salisbury say 131 people may have come into contact with the “Novichok” used against Skripal, though only 46 have asked for medical aid.


https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/03/16...erezovsky-ally

----------


## bsnub

> And a brutal response from an actual fucking chemist.


Boom goes the dynamite! Night night neo!  :Smile:

----------


## Begbie

I have now received confirmation from a well placed FCO source that Porton Down scientists are not able to identify the nerve agent as being of Russian manufacture, and have been resentful of the pressure being placed on them to do so.

Porton Down would only sign up to the formulation of a type developed by Russia after a rather difficult meeting where this was agreed as a compromise formulation. 

The Russians were allegedly researching, in the Novichok programme a generation of nerve agents which could be produced from commercially available precursors such as insecticides and fertilisers. This substance is a novichok in that sense. It is of that type. Just as I am typing on a laptop of a type developed by the United States, though this one was made in China.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...oped-by-liars/

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I have now received confirmation from a well placed FCO source that Porton Down scientists are not able to identify the nerve agent as being of Russian manufacture, and have been resentful of the pressure being placed on them to do so.
> 
> Porton Down would only sign up to the formulation “of a type developed by Russia” after a rather difficult meeting where this was agreed as a compromise formulation. 
> 
> The Russians were allegedly researching, in the “Novichok” programme a generation of nerve agents which could be produced from commercially available precursors such as insecticides and fertilisers. This substance is a “novichok” in that sense. It is of that type. Just as I am typing on a laptop of a type developed by the United States, though this one was made in China.
> 
> https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...oped-by-liars/


As demonstrated above, this bloke is full of shit and thus lacks any credibility.

----------


## Begbie

^No Harry that wasn't demonstrated above. 

Basically Craig Murray is agreeing with Corbyn in that there's insufficient evidence to apportion blame. The politicians need to let the police do their job.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^No Harry that wasn't demonstrated above. 
> 
> Basically Craig Murray is agreeing with Corbyn in that there's insufficient evidence to apportion blame. The politicians need to let the police do their job.


But there isn't insufficient evidence. Everyone else who has read the classified briefing agrees that Russia is to blame.

Comrade Corbyn is just trying to protect his mate, and Craig Murray is an attention seeking bullshitter.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Well I can see why they might want to take a closer look at that other murder ....




> Mr Glushkov, an ally of oligarch Boris Berezovsky who died in disputed circumstances in 2013, had himself been critical of Mr Putin in recent years and told friends he feared he was on a Kremlin hit list.
> 
> *The i can reveal that on the day of his death, Mr Glushkov had been due in London’s High Court for a hearing related to a vast fraud claim arising from his former role as deputy director of Aeroflot. Lawyers for the state-owned airline are attempting to enforce finding by a Russian court that Mr Glushkov and Mr Berezovsky had embezzled millions during the 1990s – the claim against Mr Glushkov alone stood at £88m.*


https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/murder-i...olay-glushkov/

----------


## OhOh

> As demonstrated above, this bloke is full of shit and thus lacks any credibility.


Try reading the link 'arry rather than dribbling here. A considered response would clarify your position.




> Everyone else who has read the classified briefing agrees that Russia is to blame


1. Who created "this, in your opinion to be in existence factual, evidence based, classified briefing" - you don't know, 
2. What does "this, in your opinion to be in existence factual, evidence based, classified briefing" say - you don't know,
3. Who has seen, "this, in your opinion to be in existence factual, evidence based, classified briefing" - you don't know,
4. What have they stated about,  "this, in your opinion to be in existence factual, evidence based, classified briefing", in public?

Have any of them released their own statement stating they agree with this allegedly available to "everyone" briefing?

Other than "we stand firm with the UK". Have any of them received an official OPCW report? Let's hope they're not relying on Boris, the bloated bumpkin's, outbursts.

----------


## tomcat

> Let's hope they're not relying on Boris, the bloated bumpkin's, outbursts.


...indeed, certainly not when RT has all the facts...

----------


## OhOh

> certainly not when RT has all the facts...


Unfortunately not just clarity, no plastic water bottles there.

----------


## Klondyke

*Sigmar Gabriel: the Assassination of Skripal is necessary to investigate the UN
*
Former German foreign Minister proposed to entrust the investigation of the attempted assassination in London of former GRU Colonel Sergei Skripal organization of the United Nations for control over chemical weapons.

On the eve departed from the post of Minister of foreign Affairs of Germany, Sigmar Gabriel urged to entrust the investigation into the assassination attempt in London on Sergei Skripal existing international organizations. The politician said on Thursday, March 15, in a speech at the ceremony of the German-Russian forum, devoted to 25th anniversary of the establishment of the NGO.
According to the former foreign Minister of Germany, international experts should provide evidence that allows to draw conclusions about who is responsible for this crime . 

“We all,’ said Gabriel, referring to both Germany and the UK, and Russia — are members of the UN organization for the control of chemical weapons and monitoring their destruction, and it would be the most intelligent of the organization is to entrust the investigation to provide it with the all available information and then to extract political conclusions”.

This approach, according to Gabriel, would meet the standards of law one is presumed innocent until, until the court prove otherwise. However, he added, respect for the principle of presumption of innocence in any way should not be seen as a means “to reduce British concern and to hush up the scandal, which without a doubt is to try to kill people with chemical weapons.”

At the same time, Sigmar Gabriel, has warned against the increasingly hysterical in his assessment, public debate and “spiraling mutual suspicions and most eccentric versions”, which remind him of the worst films of the series James bond.

Sigmar Gabriel: the Assassination of Skripal is necessary to investigate the UN | 24-my.info

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *Sigmar Gabriel: the Assassination of Skripal is necessary to investigate the UN
> *
> Former German foreign Minister proposed to entrust the investigation of the attempted assassination in London of former GRU Colonel Sergei Skripal organization of the United Nations for control over chemical weapons.
> 
> On the eve departed from the post of Minister of foreign Affairs of Germany, Sigmar Gabriel urged to entrust the investigation into the assassination attempt in London on Sergei Skripal existing international organizations. The politician said on Thursday, March 15, in a speech at the ceremony of the German-Russian forum, devoted to 25th anniversary of the establishment of the NGO.
> According to the former foreign Minister of Germany, international experts should provide evidence that allows to draw conclusions about who is responsible for this crime . 
> 
> “We all,’ said Gabriel, referring to both Germany and the UK, and Russia — are members of the UN organization for the control of chemical weapons and monitoring their destruction, and it would be the most intelligent of the organization is to entrust the investigation to provide it with the all available information and then to extract political conclusions”.
> 
> ...



No wonder your English is so atrocious if this is where you get it from.

 :rofl:

----------


## tomcat

...^looks like a Ukrainian website...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Try reading the link 'arry rather than dribbling here. A considered response would clarify your position.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Who created "this, in your opinion to be in existence factual, evidence based, classified briefing" - you don't know, 
> 2. What does "this, in your opinion to be in existence factual, evidence based, classified briefing" say - you don't know,
> 3. Who has seen, "this, in your opinion to be in existence factual, evidence based, classified briefing" - you don't know,
> 4. What have they stated about,  "this, in your opinion to be in existence factual, evidence based, classified briefing", in public?
> 
> ...


Here we go again, HoHo whinging because he thinks he's important enough to receive classified material.

Have you ever heard of the Privy Council HoHo?

Do you even know what the word "Privy" means?

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

> Have you ever heard of the Privy Council HoHo?
> 
> Do you even know what the word "Privy" means?





> Everyone else who has read the classified briefing agrees that Russia is to blame


I suspect that most of those you allege are supporting the UK position are not Privy Council members. Unless non members are "privy" to the information available to the members. :Smile: 

However, one wonders where Russia obtained the alleged assault weapon from.

*OPCW Director-General Commends Major Milestone as Russia Completes  Destruction of Chemical Weapons Stockpile under OPCW Verification*


_"THE HAGUE, Netherlands – 27 September 2017 – The Director-General of  the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW),  Ambassador Ahmet Üzümcü, made a statement today marking the completion  of the full destruction of the 39,967 metric tons of chemical weapons  possessed by the Russian Federation.

__The Director-General stated: "The completion of the verified  destruction of Russia's chemical weapons programme is a major milestone  in the achievement of the goals of the Chemical Weapons Convention.

 I congratulate Russia and I commend all of their experts who were involved for their professionalism and dedication. 
_
_I also express my appreciation to the States Parties that assisted  the Russian Federation with its destruction program and thank the OPCW  staff who verified the destruction."

 The remainder of Russia’s  chemical weapons arsenal has been destroyed at the Kizner Chemical  Weapons Destruction Facility in the Udmurt Republic.
_
_Kizner was the last operating facility of seven chemical weapons  destruction facilities in Russia. The six other facilities (Kambarka,  Gorny, Maradykovsky, Leonidovka, Pochep and Shchuchye) completed work  and were closed between 2005 and 2015. 

_
_Background_ 
_As the implementing body for the Chemical Weapons Convention, the  OPCW oversees the global endeavour to permanently eliminate chemical  weapons. Since the Convention’s entry into force in 1997 – with its 192  States Parties – it is the most successful disarmament treaty  eliminating an entire class of weapons of mass destruction.  

_
_Over 96 per cent of all chemical weapon stockpiles declared by  possessor States Parties have been destroyed under OPCW verification.  For its extensive efforts in eliminating chemical weapons, the OPCW  received the 2013 Nobel Prize for Peace. "

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/op...-verification/
_
Unlike some OPCW "states" that have not destroyed their stockpile, manufacturing capacity ........ maybe the "states" assisting the OPCW half inched some samples to take home with them.

----------


## HermantheGerman

Britain got what it deserved as a "First World Class Money Laundering Country".
Stop crying like little inocents brats!!! These are what you call "collateral damages" you Royal Numbnuts.

More embarassing is Britains behaviour in all this!

----------


## Begbie

> Do you even know what the word "Privy" means?


it means toilet. Quite appropriate given the amount of bs being sprayed around.

----------


## david44

> it means toilet.


Ta 4 the heads

R U in the "trade"

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/9e82126...d-b87e1457cf00

----------


## Neo

> As demonstrated above, this bloke is full of shit and thus lacks any credibility.


oh dear harry... you really are in a hole. 

You really think this guy is full of shit..? 




> I am alarmed by the security, spying and armaments industries frenetic efforts to stoke Russophobia and heat up the new cold war. I am especially alarmed at the stream of cold war warrior experts dominating the news cycles. I write as someone who believes that agents of the Russian state did assassinate Litvinenko, and that the Russian security services carried out at least some of the apartment bombings that provided the pretext for the brutal assault on Chechnya. I believe the Russian occupation of Crimea and parts of Georgia is illegal. On the other hand, in Syria Russia has saved the Middle East from domination by a new wave of US and Saudi sponsored extreme jihadists.


He seems to hold the same views as you regarding Russia... although you have such a hard on over Putin that probably you would prefer a Middle East overrun with Jihadists than concede Russia has played a vital role in eliminating them, and that in this case of poisoning your myopia makes it impossible for you to concede that you could be wrong to jump to conclusions. 

 ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> oh dear harry... you really are in a hole. 
> 
> You really think this guy is full of shit..? 
> 
> 
> 
> He seems to hold the same views as you regarding Russia... although you have such a hard on over Putin that probably you would prefer a Middle East overrun with Jihadists than concede Russia has played a vital role in eliminating them, and that in this case of poisoning your myopia makes it impossible for you to concede that you could be wrong to jump to conclusions.


You are so easily manipulated.

----------


## Neo

again with the ironic one liners harry... rather snub-esque

----------


## harrybarracuda

> again with the ironic one liners harry... rather snub-esque


It's simply no surprise that the whackjobs lap up his nonsense.

----------


## Klondyke

The Novichok Story Is Indeed Another Iraqi WMD Scam 521
14 Mar, 2018 by craig



> Craig John Murray (born 17 October 1958[1][2]) is a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan. He was the Rector of the University of Dundee (200710).
> 
> While Ambassador in Tashkent, he accused the Karimov administration of human rights violations, which he argued was contrary to the wishes of the British government. Murray complained to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in November 2002, January or early February 2003, and in June 2004 that intelligence linking the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan to al-Qaeda was unreliable, immoral and illegal, as it was thought to have been obtained through torture.[3] He described this as "selling our souls for dross".[4] Murray was removed as ambassador to Uzbekistan on 14 October 2004; he attributed this to his complaints about human rights violations.



As recently as 2016 Dr Robin Black, Head of the Detection Laboratory at the UKs only chemical weapons facility at Porton Down, a former colleague of Dr David Kelly, published in an extremely prestigious scientific journal that the evidence for the existence of Novichoks was scant and their composition unknown.

In recent years, there has been much speculation that a fourth generation of nerve agents, Novichoks (newcomer), was developed in Russia, beginning in the 1970s as part of the Foliant programme, with the aim of finding agents that would compromise defensive countermeasures. Information on these compounds has been sparse in the public domain, mostly originating from a dissident Russian military chemist, Vil Mirzayanov. No independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has been published. (Black, 2016)
Robin Black. (2016) Development, Historical Use and Properties of Chemical Warfare Agents. Royal Society of Chemistry

Yet now, the British Government is claiming to be able instantly to identify a substance which its only biological weapons research centre has never seen before and was unsure of its existence. Worse, it claims to be able not only to identify it, but to pinpoint its origin. Given Dr Blacks publication, it is plain that claim cannot be true.

The worlds international chemical weapons experts share Dr Blacks opinion. The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) is a UN body based in the Hague. In 2013 this was the report of its Scientific Advisory Board, which included US, French, German and Russian government representatives and on which Dr Black was the UK representative:

[The SAB] emphasised that the definition of toxic chemicals in the Convention would cover all potential candidate chemicals that might be utilised as chemical weapons. Regarding new toxic chemicals not listed in the Annex on Chemicals but which may nevertheless pose a risk to the Convention, the SAB makes reference to Novichoks. The name Novichok is used in a publication of a former Soviet scientist who reported investigating a new class of nerve agents suitable for use as binary chemical weapons. The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of Novichoks. (OPCW, 2013)
OPCW: Report of the Scientific Advisory Board on developments in science and technology for the Third Review Conference 27 March 2013

Indeed the OPCW was so sceptical of the viability of novichoks that it decided  with US and UK agreement  not to add them nor their alleged precursors to its banned list. In short, the scientific community broadly accepts Mirzayanov was working on novichoks but doubts he succeeded.

Given that the OPCW has taken the view the evidence for the existence of Novichoks is dubious, if the UK actually has a sample of one it is extremely important the UK presents that sample to the OPCW. Indeed the UK has a binding treaty obligation to present that sample to OPCW. Russa has  unreported by the corporate media  entered a demand at the OPCW that Britain submit a sample of the Salisbury material for international analysis.

Yet Britain refuses to submit it to the OPCW.

Why?

A second part of Mays accusation is that Novichoks could only be made in certain military installations. But that is also demonstrably untrue. If they exist at all, Novichoks were allegedly designed to be able to be made at bench level in any commercial chemical facility  that was a major point of them. The only real evidence for the existence of Novichoks was the testimony of the ex-Soviet scientist Mizayanov. And this is what Mirzayanov actually wrote.

One should be mindful that the chemical components or precursors of A-232 or its binary version novichok-5 are ordinary organophosphates that can be made at commercial chemical companies that manufacture such products as fertilizers and pesticides.
Vil S. Mirzayanov, Dismantling the Soviet/Russian Chemical Weapons Complex: An Insiders View, in Amy E. Smithson, Dr. Vil S. Mirzayanov, Gen Roland Lajoie, and Michael Krepon, Chemical Weapons Disarmament in Russia: Problems and Prospects, Stimson Report No. 17, October 1995, p. 21.

It is a scientific impossibility for Porton Down to have been able to test for Russian novichoks if they have never possessed a Russian sample to compare them to. They can analyse a sample as conforming to a Mirzayanov formula, but as he published those to the world twenty years ago, that is no proof of Russian origin. If Porton Down can synthesise it, so can many others, not just the Russians.

And finally  Mirzayanov is an Uzbek name and the novichok programme, assuming it existed, was in the Soviet Union but far away from modern Russia, at Nukus in modern Uzbekistan. I have visited the Nukus chemical weapons site myself. It was dismantled and made safe and all the stocks destroyed and the equipment removed by the American government, as I recall finishing while I was Ambassador there. There has in fact never been any evidence that any novichok ever existed in Russia itself.

To summarise:

1) Porton Down has acknowledged in publications it has never seen any Russian novichoks. The UK government has absolutely no fingerprint information such as impurities that can safely attribute this substance to Russia.
2) Until now, neither Porton Down nor the worlds experts at the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) were convinced Novichoks even exist.
3) The UK is refusing to provide a sample to the OPCW.
4) Novichoks were specifically designed to be able to be manufactured from common ingredients on any scientific bench. The Americans dismantled and studied the facility that allegedly developed them. It is completely untrue only the Russians could make them, if anybody can.
5) The Novichok programme was in Uzbekistan not in Russia. Its legacy was inherited by the Americans during their alliance with Karimov, not by the Russians.

With a great many thanks to sources who cannot be named at this moment.

Please Also Read My follow-up to this article: Bothered by Midgies https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...ed-by-midgies/

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...raqi-wmd-scam/

----------


## harrybarracuda

See, little Klondyke laps the shit up.

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## OhOh

"

This from a "Briefing Note" in the UK Parliament Library 15/3/18. These notes are for MPs and Government offices assitance in answering any questions from cconcerned UK citizens. backgound on OPCW work inside Uk and external. General background education stuff.

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8258

*The attack in Salisbury*

_"On 4 March 2018 two individuals, Sergey and Yulia Skripal, were taken  seriously ill in the city of Salisbury. 

On 8 March the Foreign and  Commonwealth office informed the OPCW Technical Secretariat that they  had fallen ill following exposure to a nerve agent. 

On 12 March the  Prime Minister gave a statement  in which she confirmed the substance used was a military-grade nerve  agent of a type developed by Russia, part of a group of agents known as  Novichok agents. The Prime Minister said it is highly likely that  Russia was responsible for the attack. The Foreign Secretary asked  Russia to provide to the OPCW immediate, full and complete disclosure of  the Novichok programme to the OPCW by the end of 13 March. 

By coincidence the OPCW is holding one of its regular Executive Council meeting between 13-16 March 2018. 

The UK addressed  the on 13 March. Repeating the Governments conclusions, as outlined in  the Prime Ministers statement, the Permanent Representative of the UK  to the OPCW said:_
_The stark conclusion is that it is highly likely that Russia, a  fellow State Party to the Chemical Weapons Convention and fellow member  of this Executive Council is implicated in chemical weapons use, whether  by failure to control its own materials or by design.
__The Russian Permanent Representative responded in a statement  to the Council on 13 March. The Russian Ambassador described the UKs  unfounded accusations as absolutely unacceptable. The Ambassador  said the UK should avail itself of the procedures provided for in  Article IX(2) of the Convention and made it clear the Convention allows  for 10 days for a receiving State to reply, describing the UKs demand  for a response within 24 hours as absolutely unacceptable

_==================================================  ==============================================
_The Prime Minister updated the House of Commons on 14 March. The  Prime Minister said there is no alternative conclusion other than that  the Russian state was culpable:

__ The Russian Government have provided no credible explanation that  could suggest that they lost control of their nerve agent, no  explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the United Kingdom,  and no explanation as to why Russia has an undeclared chemical weapons  programme in contravention of international law. 

__The Prime Minister said the Government had informed the OPCW about  Russias use of this nerve agent and are working with the police to  enable the OPCW to independently verify our analysis.

In his response, the Leader of the Opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, asked if  the Government had made a formal request for evidence from the Russian  Government under article IX(2) of the Chemical Weapon Convention.

==================================================  ==============================================_

Compare the above 14/3/18 alleged briefing with the actual statement as recorded and published by the 14/3/18

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-commons-statement-on-salisbury-incident-response-14-march-2018#full-history

                 Oral statement to Parliament     

*PM Commons Statement on Salisbury incident response: 14 March 2018*_"__With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a Statement on the  response of the Russian government to the incident in Salisbury.
__First, on behalf of the whole House, let me pay tribute once again to  the bravery and professionalism of all the emergency services, doctors,  nurses and investigation teams who have led the response to this  appalling incident.

_
_And also to the fortitude of the people of Salisbury. Let me reassure  them that  as Public Health England have made clear  the ongoing risk  to public health is low. And the government will continue to do  everything possible to support this historic city to recover fully.
_
_Mr Speaker, on Monday I set out that Mr Skripal and his daughter were  poisoned with a Novichok: a military grade nerve agent developed by  Russia.
_
_Based on this capability, combined with their record of conducting  state sponsored assassinations  including against former intelligence  officers whom they regard as legitimate targets - the UK government  concluded it was highly likely that Russia was responsible for this  reckless and despicable act.

_
_And there were only two plausible explanations. Either this was a direct act by the Russian State against our country. Or conceivably, the Russian government could have lost control of a  military-grade nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of  others. Mr Speaker, it was right to offer Russia the opportunity to provide an explanation.

_
_But their response has demonstrated complete disdain for the gravity of these events. They have provided no credible explanation that could suggest they lost control of their nerve agent. No explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the United  Kingdom; no explanation as to why Russia has an undeclared chemical  weapons programme in contravention of international law. Instead they have treated the use of a military grade nerve agent in Europe with sarcasm, contempt and defiance.

So Mr Speaker, there is no alternative conclusion other than that the  Russian State was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and  his daughter - and for threatening the lives of other British citizens  in Salisbury, including Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey.
_
_This represents an unlawful use of force by the Russian State against the United Kingdom.

_
_And as I set out on Monday it has taken place against the backdrop of  a well-established pattern of Russian State aggression across Europe  and beyond._
_It must therefore be met with a full and robust response - beyond the  actions we have already taken since the murder of Mr Litvinenko and to  counter this pattern of Russian aggression elsewhere.

_
_As the discussion in this House on Monday made clear, it is essential  that we now come together  with our allies - to defend our security,  to stand up for our values and to send a clear message to those who  would seek to undermine them.

_
_This morning I chaired a further meeting of the National Security  Council, where we agreed immediate actions to dismantle the Russian  espionage network in the UK, urgent work to develop new powers to tackle  all forms of hostile state activity and to ensure that those seeking to  carry out such activity cannot enter the UK, and additional steps to  suspend all planned high-level contacts between the United Kingdom and  the Russian Federation.
_
_Let me start with the immediate actions.

_
_Mr Speaker, the House will recall that following the murder of Mr Litvinenko, the UK expelled four diplomats._
_Under the Vienna Convention, the United Kingdom will now expel 23  Russian diplomats who have been identified as undeclared intelligence  officers._
_They have just one week to leave.

_
_This will be the single biggest expulsion for over thirty years and  it reflects the fact that this is not the first time that the Russian  State has acted against our country.

_
_Through these expulsions we will fundamentally degrade Russian  intelligence capability in the UK for years to come. And if they seek to  rebuild it, we will prevent them from doing so.

_
_Second, we will urgently develop proposals for new legislative powers  to harden our defences against all forms of Hostile State Activity._
_This will include the addition of a targeted power to detain those  suspected of Hostile State Activity at the UK border. This power is  currently only permitted in relation to those suspected of terrorism.

_
_And I have asked the Home Secretary to consider whether there is a  need for new counter-espionage powers to clamp down on the full spectrum  of hostile activities of foreign agents in our country.

_
_Mr Speaker, as I set out on Monday we will also table a government  amendment to the Sanctions Bill to strengthen our powers to impose  sanctions in response to the violation of human rights.

_
_In doing so, we will play our part in an international effort to  punish those responsible for the sorts of abuses suffered by Sergey  Magnitsky.
_
_And I hope  as with all the measures I am setting out today  that this will command cross-party support.

_
_Mr Speaker, we will also make full use of existing powers to enhance  our efforts to monitor and track the intentions of those travelling to  the UK who could be engaged in activity that threatens the security of  the UK and of our allies.

_
_So we will increase checks on private flights, customs and freight.

_
_We will freeze Russian State assets wherever we have the evidence  that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals  or residents.
_
_And led by the National Crime Agency, we will continue to bring all  the capabilities of UK law enforcement to bear against serious criminals  and corrupt elites. There is no place for these people  or their money  - in our country.

_
_Mr Speaker, let me be clear.

_
_While our response must be robust it must also remain true to our  values  as a liberal democracy that believes in the rule of law.
_
_Many Russians have made this country their home, abide by our laws  and make an important contribution to our country which we must continue  to welcome.

_
_But to those who seek to do us harm, my message is simple: you are not welcome here._
_Mr Speaker, let me turn to our bi-lateral relationship.

_
_As I said on Monday, we have had a very simple approach to Russia: engage but beware._
_And I continue to believe it is not in our national interest to break  off all dialogue between the United Kingdom and the Russian Federation._
_But in the aftermath of this appalling act against our country, this relationship cannot be the same.

_
_So we will suspend all planned high level bi-lateral contacts between the United Kingdom and the Russian Federation.

_
_This includes revoking the invitation to Foreign Minister Lavrov to  pay a reciprocal visit to the United Kingdom and confirming there will  be no attendance by Ministers - or indeed Members of the Royal Family -  at this Summers World Cup in Russia.

_
_Finally, Mr Speaker, we will deploy a range of tools from across the  full breadth of our National Security apparatus in order to counter the  threats of Hostile State Activity.

_
_While I have set out some of those measures today, Members on all  sides will understand that there are some that cannot be shared publicly  for reasons of National Security.

_
_And, of course, there are other measures we stand ready to deploy at any time, should we face further Russian provocation.
_
_Mr Speaker, none of the actions we take are intended to damage legitimate activity or prevent contacts between our populations.

_
_We have no disagreement with the people of Russia who have been  responsible for so many great achievements throughout their history._
_Many of us looked at a post-Soviet Russia with hope. We wanted a  better relationship and it is tragic that President Putin has chosen to  act in this way.
_
_But we will not tolerate the threat to life of British people and  others on British soil from the Russian government. Nor will we tolerate  such a flagrant breach of Russias international obligations.

_
_Mr Speaker, as I set out on Monday, the United Kingdom does not stand alone in confronting Russian aggression. In the last twenty-four hours I have spoken to President Trump, Chancellor Merkel and President Macron. We have agreed to co-operate closely in responding to this barbaric  act and to co-ordinate our efforts to stand up for the rules based  international order which Russia seeks to undermine.

_
_I will also speak to other allies and partners in the coming days. And I welcome the strong expressions of support from NATO and from partners across the European Union and beyond. Later today in New York, the UN Security Council will hold open  consultations where we will be pushing for a robust international  response.

_
_We have also notified the Organisation for the Prohibition of  Chemical Weapons about Russias use of this nerve agent. And we are  working with the police to enable the OPCW to independently verify our  analysis.

_
_Mr Speaker, this was not just an act of attempted murder in Salisbury  nor just an act against UK.
_
_It is an affront to the prohibition on the use of chemical weapons.

_
_And it is an affront to the rules based system on which we and our international partners depend.
_
_We will work with our allies and partners to confront such actions wherever they threaten our security, at home and abroad.

_
_And I commend this Statement to the House."_





Her Government statement goes much further:

1. Russia poisoned a UK citizen
2. Russia poisoned a Russian citizen
3. Russia conducts state sponsored terrorism
4. Russia was responsible for a reckless and despicable act

However this was all wrapped up in a "highly likely" caveat. Implying they, currently, have no proof or facts to support any claims.

She then continues with more unfounded accusations.

----------


## tomcat

> Culpability generally implies that an act performed is wrong but does not involve any evil intent by the wrongdoer.


...after all, what could possibly be evil about nerve gassing folks?...

----------


## OhOh

^
What is more evil is performing evil acts without any facts to back up, currently, her accusations and besmirching a Government Leader and a country. 

She admits it is only "highly likely". These are not the words of a person who has anything to back up their assertions. They are weasel words which when later proven as lies, as so many governments have been shown, to use, prior to engaging in causing millions of deaths.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^
> What is more evil is performing evil acts without any facts to back up, currently, her accusations and besmirching a Government Leader and a country. 
> 
> She admits it is only "highly likely". These are not the words of a person who has anything to back up their assertions. They are weasel words which when later proven as lies, as so many governments have been shown, to use, prior to engaging in causing millions of deaths.


You are being a bit of a numbskull HoHo.

That it is "highly likely" gives Russia an opportunity to come up with a reason why it was not them that used their nerve agent to kill their enemy.

However, their reply has been the standard indignant bluster of the Soviet era, back into which Putin is trying to drag Russia.

----------


## tomcat

> as so many governments have been shown, to use, prior to engaging in causing millions of deaths.


...referring to the Stalin era then: good example of Soviet dissembling...

----------


## misskit

*Russia expels 23 British diplomats as crisis over nerve toxin attack deepens*MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia expelled 23 British diplomats on Saturday in a carefully calibrated retaliatory move against London, which has accused the Kremlin of orchestrating a nerve toxin attack on a former Russian double agent and his daughter in southern England.



Escalating a crisis in relations, Russia said it was also shutting down the activities of the British Council, which fosters cultural links between the two countries, and Britain’s consulate-general in St. Petersburg.


The Russian Foreign Ministry said the 23 British diplomats had one week to leave the country.



The move followed Britain’s decision on Wednesday to expel 23 Russian diplomats over the attack in the English city of Salisbury which left former Russian spy Sergei Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia Skripal, 33, critically ill in hospital.


Moscow announced the measures on the eve of a presidential election which incumbent Vladimir Putin should comfortably win. Putin has cast his country as a fortress besieged by hostile Western powers with him as its defender, and state media is likely to portray the anti-British move in that context.


The Foreign Ministry said Moscow’s measures were a response to what it called Britain’s “provocative actions and unsubstantiated accusations”. It warned London it stood ready to take further measures in the event of more “unfriendly steps”.


Relations between London and Moscow have crashed to a post-Cold War low over the Salisbury attack, the first known offensive use of a nerve agent in Europe since World War Two.


British Prime Minister Theresa May said Britain would consider its next steps with its allies in the coming days.


“We will never tolerate a threat to the life of British citizens and others on British soil from the Russian Government. We can be reassured by the strong support we have received from our friends and allies around the world,” May told her Conservative Party’s spring forum in London.


The Russian Foreign Ministry summoned the British ambassador, Laurie Bristow, to its headquarters on Saturday morning to inform him of the retaliatory measures.










Bristow told reporters afterwards that Britain had only expelled the Russian diplomats after Moscow had failed to explain how the nerve toxin had got to Salisbury.


Britain’s foreign ministry said it had anticipated Russia’s response and that its priority was to look after its staff in Russia and assist those returning home.


“Russia’s response doesn’t change the facts of the matter - the attempted assassination of two people on British soil, for which there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian State was culpable,” it said in a statement.


Britain’s National Security Council is due to meet early next week to consider London’s next steps.



*WAR OF WORDS*Russia’s response was more robust than expected. The closure of the British Council’s Moscow office will sever cultural ties, while that of the consulate-general in St Petersburg will end Britain’s diplomatic presence in Russia’s second city.


Russian news agencies cited politicians in Russia’s upper house of parliament as welcoming the move to close the British Council, alleging it had been used as a cover by British spies.


The British Council said it was profoundly disappointed by Russia’s decision and remained committed to developing long-term people-to-people links with Russia despite the closure.


Russia has complained that Britain has failed to provide any evidence of its involvement in the Salisbury attack and has said it is shocked and bemused by the allegations.


Britain has escalated a war of words with Russia over the incident in recent days. On Friday, British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said it was overwhelmingly likely that Russian President Putin himself had made the decision to use a military-grade nerve toxin to strike down Skripal.


Britain, the United States, Germany and France have jointly called on Russia to explain the attack and U.S. President Donald Trump has said it looks as if the Russians were behind it.


Russia has said is open to cooperation with Britain, but has refused Britain’s demands to explain how Novichok, a nerve agent developed by the Soviet military, was used against the Skripals.


Skripal, a former colonel in the GRU who betrayed dozens of Russian agents to British intelligence, and his daughter have been critically ill since March 4, when they were found unconscious on a bench.


A British policeman was also poisoned when he went to help them and remains in a serious but stable condition.


Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told the Rossiya 24 TV channel on Saturday that the most likely source of the Novichok nerve toxin was Britain itself or the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Sweden or the United States.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1GT0BE

----------


## misskit

*Swedish foreign minister rejects 'unacceptable and unfounded' Russia toxin claim*STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Swedish Foreign Minister Margot Wallstrom rejected Russian claims on Saturday that the country could be the source of a nerve toxin used against a former Russian double agent and his daughter in Britain, calling them “unacceptable and unfounded”.


A Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman told the Rossiya 24 TV channel earlier on Saturday that the most likely source of the Novichok nerve agent was Britain itself or the Czech Republic, Slovakia, the United States or Sweden.


“Forcefully reject unacceptable and unfounded allegation by Russian MFA spokesperson that nerve agent used in Salisbury might originate in Sweden,” Wallstrom said in a tweet.



“Russia should answer UK questions instead.”


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1GT0N7

----------


## misskit

*Czech foreign minister rejects Russia's nerve toxin origin claim*
PRAGUE (Reuters) - Czech Foreign Minister Martin Stropnicky on Saturday denied Moscow’s accusation that the nerve toxin used against a former Russian double agent and his daughter in southern England came from the Czech Republic


Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told the Rossiya 24 TV channel on Saturday that the most likely source of the Novichok nerve agent was Britain itself or the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Sweden or the United States.


Russia expelled 23 British diplomats on Saturday in a retaliatory move against London, which has accused the Kremlin of orchestrating the nerve toxin attack and has ordered the expulsion of the same number of Russian diplomats. [ID:nL8N1QZ0CT


“We object to these claims about the origin of (the toxin), which are not substantiated,” Stropnicky said on his official Twitter feed.


“This is a standard way of manipulating information in the public space through a highly speculative message being introduced which can not be proven.”


Czech Defense Minister Karla Slechtova, on her twitter feed, described the suggestion that the toxin could have come from the Czech Republic as “absurd”.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1GT0ML

----------


## tomcat

*TD Minister of Silly Posts Rejects Nervy Toxic Posts Claim

THAILAND (*Coconuts) - TD Minister of Silly Posts OhOh Vladimirovich denied accusations that TD is responsible for toxic thread-derailing posts: "They are weasel words which when later proven as lies, as so many forums have been shown, to use, prior to engaging in causing millions of reds."...he explained...

----------


## OhOh

My apologies for post #257. Poorly presented and argued. Too much beer last night.




> their reply has been the standard indignant bluster of the Soviet era


Here, allegedly, is the latest "indignant bluster":

https://www.rt.com/news/421602-skrip...no-legal-case/

"Russia’s Foreign Minister said. 

_“The fact, that they  [UK officials] categorically rejects to file an official request and  deliberately and arrogantly fan anti-Russian rhetoric in the public  sphere bordering on hysteria, indicates that they clearly understand  they have no formal pretext to go down a legal road,”_ Lavrov said  on Friday, referring to the British authorities’ allegations that  Russia, and, notably, President Vladimir Putin, were behind the plot to  poison the former double agent and his daughter.

Instead, UK officials have tried to _"move all this to the sphere of  political rhetoric, to Russophobia in the hope that, as it was in many  other cases, the West will align,”_ Lavrov said.

_“So I think the right approach is to seek the evidence; to follow  international treaties, particularly in relation to prohibited chemical  weapons, because this was a chemical weapons attack, carried out on  British soil,”
_
Polite and reserved, as a true Governent spokesman should be.

----------


## OhOh

> “Forcefully reject unacceptable and unfounded  allegation by Russian MFA spokesperson that nerve agent used in  Salisbury might originate in Sweden,” Wallstrom said in a tweet.





> “We object to these claims about the origin of (the toxin), which are not substantiated,” Stropnicky said on his official Twitter feed.
> 
> “This is a standard way of manipulating information in the public space through a highly speculative message being introduced which can not be proven.”


Oh dear, the use of "unsubstantiated claims" has been forcefully rejected/rejected by an European Government minister and ex Soviet satellite minister.

 Whatever next. 

Who have the audacity to suggest this type of behaviour is "unacceptable and unfounded" and “a standard way of manipulating information in the public space  through a highly speculative message being introduced which can not be  proven.”

Shades of echoing the Russian Foreign Minister. The dew on the spiders web of lies is evaporating in the morning sun.

 :Smile:

----------


## tomcat

> Polite and reserved, as a true Governent spokesman should be.


...also disingenuous and calculating in order to mislead...

----------


## tomcat

> The dew on the spiders web of lies is evaporating in the morning sun.


...while the canister of Raid is wielded with threatening accuracy...

----------


## OhOh

Here is a tweet from a Professor of Organic Chemistry @ Cornell. 

 _Dave Collum‏_ _@DavidBCollum__ Mar 15

_ "_To all you fuckwitted nerve gas/geopolitical experts: the nerve agent attributed to the Rooskies is trivial to make. Stop saying it points to the Russians or it couldn't be easily characterized. Maybe they did it; maybe they didn't, but many would like it to look like Russia."_

 Now he could be a Russian spy or he could be, as he is employed by a western university of repute, an intelligent man of integrity.

Which demolishes the current UK accusation.

A link to an article which demolishes the UK claim that only Russia had access to the alleged CW, only Russia has the means and motive for this alleged crime.

https://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/113845/russia-did

----------


## Neo

> ...also disingenuous and calculating in order to mislead...


oh dear... she's been sniffing round this thread too long and caught harryitis  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## bsnub

Well I see the usual Putin nob gobblers are desperately trying to validate dodgy tin foil conspiracies even though strong evidence to the contrary has been posted here already. Brainwashed fools.  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> You are being a bit of a numbskull HoHo.
> 
> That it is "highly likely" gives Russia an opportunity to come up with a reason why it was not them that used their nerve agent to kill their enemy.


You are, as usual, failing to refer to previous references. The Russian position has been clearly stated by their Government officer responsible for foreign affairs: Utilise the impartial OPCW to obtain samples, investigate and report on the incident. Which the UK has failed to do. Which leads to the suspicion, by some, that they are hiding the truth or are sexing up the alleged evidence which unfortunately many western governments have adopted in the past.

This image incorporates the attitude displayed very accurately. The combination of the ameristanis lies in the UNSC and the UK sexing up a report and twisting hearsay into their fabricated lie.



Are you really suggesting to follow these historic mistakes steps is an acceptable policy?

----------


## OhOh

> even though strong evidence to the contrary has been posted here already


 :smiley laughing: 

Opinions here are from us armchair experts only so far. 

The accusers of acts of war, as I previously posted, have no facts to present and are merely whistling in the wind.

----------


## tomcat

> whistling in the wind


...just put your lips together and blow:

----------


## bsnub

> Opinions here are from us armchair experts only so far.


Right I am guessing you skipped over the post Harry made regarding the comments made by the chemist who utterly destroyed Craig Murray's tin foil theory that you bozos are still clinging to.

----------


## OhOh

> Right I am guessing you skipped over the post Harry made regarding the comments made by the chemist who utterly destroyed Craig Murray's tin foil theory that you bozos are still clinging to.


You are wrong in your assumption above. 

To be able to follow this story impartially I always read 'arrys posts. Sometimes they warrant a response, sometime they amuse me.

I'm guessing you skipped over my post #270 with an alternate opinion from a respected university professor employed in ameristan. Who obviously is aware of the ease in which he could lose his respectability and career, due to the current attitude by some to stop free speech in ameristan

----------


## tomcat

> To be able to follow this story impartially





> ameristan


... :rofl: ...

----------


## misskit

^ Exactly.

----------


## bsnub

It really is a waste of time with these numpties. The confirmation bias is way over the top with them.




> respected university professor


He is not respected at all he is a crackpot and all you have to do is google his name to see it. As soon as I read this I knew he was a clown;




> _ZeroHedge_ is by far my preferred consolidator of news.


Typical of the type of shit you dig up but still a FAIL!

----------


## OhOh

*Renewed appeal for information from anyone who saw Salisbury victim's car*


Renewed appeal for information from anyone who saw Salisbury... - Metropolitan Police_"Police are  renewing appeals for information from members of the public who may   have seen the burgundy red BMW owned by the man found seriously ill in   Salisbury.

__Officers are today releasing a picture of  Sergei Skripal's  burgundy red BMW 320D saloon - registration plate HD09  WAO - about which they  appealed for information earlier this week.

_
_Sergei,  66, and his daughter  Yulia Skripal, 33, were found seriously ill on a  bench in Salisbury town centre  on Sunday, 4 March. Scientists  determined this to be the result of a military  grade nerve agent. Both  Sergei and Yulia remain in a critical condition in  hospital.
_
_A  Wiltshire Police officer - Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey,  who was  among those first to respond to the incident - was also taken ill and   remains in a serious but stable condition in hospital.

_
_Met Assistant  Commissioner Neil Basu said: "We  are learning more about Sergei and Yulia's  movements but we need to be  clearer around their exact movements on the morning  of the incident. 

_
_"We  believe that at around 9.15am on Sunday, 4 March,  Sergei's car may  have been in the areas of London Road, Churchill Way North and  Wilton  Road. Then at around 1.30pm it was seen being driven down Devizes Road,   towards the town centre.
_
_"We need to establish Sergei and Yulia's   movements during the morning, before they headed to the town centre.  Did you see  this car, or what you believe was this car, on the day of  the incident? We are  particularly keen to hear from you if you saw the  car before 1.30pm. If you have  information, please call the police on  101."

_
_Anyone who has images or  footage that may assist the investigation is asked to upload them at the secure  websitehttp://www.ukpoliceimageappeal.co.uk
_
_AC Basu continued:  "In any  investigation, the information we receive from the public can  be crucial to  helping the police build a picture of events and in this  case the public  response has been immense. Around 400 witnesses have  already given statements,  with hundreds more to be taken in the coming  days.
_
_"This is an extremely  challenging and complex investigation  and we currently have around 250  exceptionally experienced and  dedicated specialist officers from the counter  terrorism network  working around the clock on this case. 

_
_"They are being  supported  by hundreds more officers from across the police family, as well as   the military and other emergency services.
_
_"To date, detectives  have  recovered 762 exhibits and are trawling through around 4,000 hours  of CCTV. They  are making good progress in what is a painstaking  investigation that is likely  to be ongoing for weeks, if not months."

_
_Police have today released the  following updated timeline of events (all times approximate):


_
_14.40hrs on  Saturday 3 March: Yulia arrives at Heathrow Airport on a flight from  Russia.
_
_09.15hrs on Sunday, 4 March: Sergei's car is seen in the area of  London Road, Churchill Way North and Wilton Road.
_
_13.30hrs: Sergei's car  is seen being driven down Devizes Road, towards the town  centre._
_13:40hrs:  Sergei and Yulia arrive in Sainsbury's upper level car  park at the  Maltings. At some time after this, they go to the Bishops Mill Pub  in  the town centre.
_
_14.20hrs: They dine at Zizzi  Restaurant.
_
_15:35hrs: They leave Zizzi Restaurant.
_
_16.15hrs:   Emergency services receive a report from a member of the public and  police  arrive at the scene within minutes, where they find Sergei and  Yulia extremely  ill on a park bench near the restaurant. 

_
_As the  investigation continues,  the local community will continue to see a  police presence at various sites  across Salisbury, and also in Dorset  where the military have been helping police  remove a number of vehicles  and items.

_
_AC Basu explained: "Public Health   England has advised that the risk to the public is low. I would like to  reassure  anyone who may be concerned by the continued presence of  officers wearing  specialist protective clothing that they are wearing  this as a precaution and  that it is not an indication of an increased  risk."

_
_Anyone with concerns  regarding the ongoing police activity  at these locations is encouraged to speak  to any of the local officers  or PCSOs at the locations, who will be happy to  offer reassurance. 

_
_For the full advice from Public Health England,  please see http://www.gov.uk/government/news/pu...s-in-salisbury_ 




Three points:

1. _"They  are making good progress in what is a painstaking  investigation that is likely  to be ongoing for weeks, if not months."_ - The story will have disappeared from the daily news cycle, overtaken by more "topical" events. Sound familiar?

2. _"A  Wiltshire Police officer - Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey,  who was  among those first to respond to the incident - was also taken ill and   remains in a serious but stable condition in hospital. _ -  Not explanation of how or where the detective became involved and affected. Where was he was affected and what he was responding too at the time, hmmmmmmm? Some are alleging he was affected inside the attacked man's house.

3. _"To date, detectives  have  recovered 762 exhibits and are trawling through around 4,000 hours  of CCTV. -_ Unfortunately none from the main square in Salisbury? With open spaces and seats which suggests it would be a prime area to monitor normally, as many "incidents" may take place their every day. But I'm sure the police have records that would support the numbers of normal incidents and hence, by installing CCTV cameras, would or would not be justified. To keep the peace in the quiet, cathedral city of Salisbury etc. If they do have any CCTV cameras in the square, the attack on the two would "highly likely" be visible and any suspects possibly traceable. As, if administered at this point in location and time, this super CW which acts in seconds we are led to believe.

4. "_police  arrive at the scene within minutes"_ - All of them forget to turn on their cameras duh!



I leave the witness box to others, for the next witness to give any evidence to assist this high Court of TD, under the tutelage of The Honourable Judge Sir 'arry of "a nondescript ME entity" QC. I remain, at your service, should the need require a recall to the box.

Cheers and applause from the public benches. Flash explosion from the attendant news reporter's cameras and TV commentators shouting further questions. 

*Bedlam rules in a quiet High court in rural Wiltshire once again.
*Sky news.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

And how do you know what evidence they do and don't have HoHo?

Are you still seething that you aren't important enough to have access to it?

----------


## OhOh

> He is not respected at all he is a crackpot and all you have to do is google his name to see it. As soon as I read this I knew he was a clown;


His CV:

"
*Educational Background*


PhD, Columbia UniversityMS, Columbia UniversityMA, Columbia UniversityBS, Cornell University 

*Publications*


Solution Structures of Lithium Amino Alkoxides Used in Highly Enantioselective 1,2-Additions. Bruneau, A. M.; Collum, D. B. _J. Am. Chem. Soc._ *2014*, _53_, 2885.Method of Continuous Variations: Applications of Job Plots to the Study of Molecular Associations in Organometallic Chemistry. Renny, J. S.; Tomasevich, L. L.; Tallmadge, E. H.; Collum, D. B. _Angew. Chem., Int. Ed._ *2013*, _52_, 11998.Enediolate-Dilithium  Amide Mixed Aggregates in the Enantioselective Alkylation of Arylacetic  Acids: Structural Studies and a Stereochemical Model*.* Ma, Y.; Stivala, C. E.; Wright, A. M.; Hayton, T.; Liang, J.; Keresztes, I.; Lobkovsky, E.; Collum, D. B.; Zakarian, Z. _J. Am. Chem. Soc._ *2013*, _135_, 16853.Azaaldol Condensation of a Lithium Enolate Solvated by _N,N,N’,N’_ Tetramethylethylenediamine: Dimer-Based 1,2-Addition to Imines. De Vries, T. S.; Bruneau, A. M.; Liou, L. R.; Subramanian, H.; Collum, D. B. _J. Am. Chem. Soc._ *2013*, _135_, 4214.Regioselective  Lithium Diisopropylamide-Mediated Ortholithiation of  1-Chloro-3-(trifluoromethyl)benzene: Role of Autocatalysis, Lithium  Chloride Catalysis, and Reversibility. Hoepker, A. C.; Gupta, L.; Ma, Y.; Faggin, M. F.; Collum, D. B. _J. Am. Chem. Soc._ *2011*, _133_, 7135. 

Which  maketh to hoist with his own petard are verily cardinal location herewith appear. 

Hey

----------


## bsnub

> His CV:


_ZeroHedge_ is by far my preferred consolidator of news.

----------


## OhOh

> And how do you know what evidence they do and don't have HoHo?


My paramountcy is under question? Who advances themselves above the angels?




> Are you still seething that you aren't important enough to have access to it?


I moisten but a smidgen beneath unbounded firmament.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> My paramountcy is under question? Who advances themselves above the angels?
> 
> 
> 
> I moisten but a smidgen beneath unbounded firmament.



Does Jeff teach a class in this shit or something?

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _ZeroHedge_ is by far my preferred consolidator of news.



Whilst his academic qualifications are not in dispute, clearly he is another fucking tin foil whackjob.

----------


## OhOh

> ZeroHedge is by far my preferred consolidator of news.


_"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
 By any other name would smell as sweet."






 Originally Posted by harrybarracuda


Does Jeff teach a class in this shit or something?


_Ask whomever they may be_.


_

----------


## bsnub

> clearly he is another fucking tin foil whackjob.


Indeed he is and it is not hard to find simply by googling his name. 

Digging further he has been accused of being a rape apologist and a homophobe by students. 

LETTER TO THE EDITOR | On a professor?s misconduct | The Cornell Daily Sun





> He has tweeted support for Mike Cernovich, a rape apologist whose social  media record includes statements like: “Have you guys ever tried  ‘raping’ a girl without using force? Try it. It’s basically impossible.  Date rape does not exist”







> He told a friend to “bring roofies” (a date rape drug) on a trip to Las Vegas.




This is the type of "highly respected" source that ohdo comes up with.  :rofl:

----------


## PAG

BREAKING NEWS

In shock news, Russias President Putin has named the Agent who poisoned the Ex Spy in Salisbury.

When asked the killers name, he said Yukanol Fukov

----------


## tomcat

> When asked the killers name, he said Yukanol Fukov


...mistransliteration...the original reads Yukan al-Fukov,  a Chechen goat herd...

----------


## Begbie

*Paper from 1st of January 2017 where Iranian researchers synthesized Novichok agents. 

Iranian chemists identify Russian chemical warfare agents - Ezine - spectroscopyNOW.com

Chemical weapons detection requires good analytical data*


Chemical weapons, and their precursors, were banned by the Chemical Weapons Convention, which has been signed and ratified by nearly all the countries in the world. However, the illegal use of chemical weapons, whether by state agencies or terrorist organisations, remains a threat. Chemical weapons were used by Iraqi forces in the 1980s against Iranian forces and Kurdish civilians. Some chemical weapons, such as chlorine gas, are believed to have been used in recent years in the Syrian civil war.

Current databases include mass spectra of the more common chemical warfare agents; however, more work needs to be carried out on rarer agents. The so-called Novichok agents are a range of highly toxic nerve agents developed in the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 1980s. The literature on their spectral properties is sparse.

The detection of chemical weapons may involve samples in which they are present at extremely low levels. Mass spectrometry is generally used for identification, typically GC/MS or LC/MS. Even with these techniques, identification may be difficult in situations where the molecular ion is weak or isomeric compounds could be present. It is important to recognise typical fragmentation pathways in order to reliably identify the compounds.

*GC/MS and LC-MS/MS used for Novichok agent detection*

*The Iranian researchers synthesised five Novichok agents*, along with four deuterated analogues. They were all _O_-alkyl _N_-[bis(dimethylamino)methylidene]-_P_-methylphosphonamidate compounds (i.e. molecules with the typical nerve agent phosphorus group coupled to _N_,_N_,_N__N_-tetramethylguanidine). The _O_-alkyl group was varied, with the methoxy, ethoxy, isopropoxy, phenoxy, and 2,6-dimethylphenoxy derivatives being prepared. The syntheses were carried out on a micro-scale in order to minimize exposure.

----------


## Neo

Any proof that Russia did it yet.?  :Dunno:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Any proof that Russia did it yet.?


Unfortunately we need proof they didn't.

And begbie posting fairytales isn't it.




> *Published:* Jan 1, 2017
> The authors succeeded in synthesising and obtaining detailed mass spectral data on a series of unusual nerve agents. The data have been added to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons’ Central Analytical Database (OCAD).





> Published time: 13 Mar, 2018 19:02
> The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) carefully describes all known types of weapons-grade chemicals, including notorious sarin and VX, as well as their properties, mechanisms of action, and possible antidotes. But oddly enough, _‘Novichok’ – the substance supposedly deadlier than sarin or VX – is not on the OPSW_ <sic>_ nerve agents list._


And I look forward to our forum whackjobs disputing that because it's from RT.

 :bananaman: 

https://www.rt.com/news/421200-uk-no...t-allegations/

----------


## OhOh

> Unfortunately we need proof they didn't.


Ah the old ones are the best eh. Keep it up 'arry. I wont tell anyone you have a Cambridge First. Oops.




> And I look forward to our forum whackjobs disputing that because it's from RT.


"arry are OK, has the virus taken control of your brain? 

 Be very careful, delete the link, wipe your hard drive with a disinfected cloth and burn the cloth. Shower thoroughly, take a dump, burn any clothes worn whilst online to RT.

One more visit and you will be doomed forever. Doomed, doomed ........

On the other hand the TDART, (Teak Door Appreciation of Russia Today) group do sample great pizza. You do have to pledge secrecy and not name any of the RT clan. If you behave for your trial period we can show you how to access the RT hidden pages.

Answer this test question, "Is the UK statement, that Russia is the source, proven or not?" 

Bsnub tried to join but was blackballed. That's why he constantly reds grandpa.

Post the answer on a blank web site and PM with the link.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

In simple terms:

A *Russian* nerve agent was used to try and kill a Russian spy who was an enemy of the Russian state.

Russia have been asked "Did you do it or did you lose your Novochik, and if so who to?".

Not a difficult question really.

Only the whackjobs think it's unreasonable.

----------


## Neo

good question harry... only problem, you don't like the answer  ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

> A USSR nerve agent was used to try and kill a USSR spy who was an enemy of the USSR state.
> 
> Russia have been asked "Did you do it or did you lose your Novochik, and if so who to?".


Fixed the first sentence for you. Maybe the leaders of the USSR should be in the spotlight.

The second to be true casts doubt on the certification of all countries, by the UN OPCW, which it has claimed have been clean for years.

----------


## Begbie

For clarity heres an extract from the Craig Murray interview on Radio 5

_Stephen Nolan: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office have said to us tonight: We have no idea what Mr Murray is referring to. The Prime Minister told MPs on Monday that world leading experts at Porton Down had positively identified this chemical agent. It is clear that it is a military grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia. None of that is in any doubt. Well, youve already covered that Craig and you are zoning in on the fact that they are saying developed by Russia, they are unable to say whether its made  well they are not saying whether it was actually manufactured in Russia or the source of it or whether it was from Russia, right?
_
_Craig Murray Yes, exactly. No-one doubts that the Russians had the idea of making these things first, and worked on developing the idea. It has always been doubted up till now that they really succeeded. The Iranians succeeded under OPCW supervision some time ago and the chemical formulae were published to the whole world twenty years ago. So many states could have done it. The of a type developed by Russia thing means nothing, undoubtedly._

----------


## OhOh

^

Do you have a link to the interview in full. Apologies if it has already been posted here.

----------


## Begbie

Transcript of the programme at:

https://t.co/O1dnOuB2ex

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _The Iranians succeeded under OPCW supervision some time ago and the chemical formulae were published to the whole world twenty years ago. So many states could have done it. The of a type developed by Russia thing means nothing, undoubtedly._


For clarity (again): the OPCW have never received a sample of Novichok nor have they had a member state tell them they have it. Yet we are to believe some Iranians knocked it together and told the world 20 years ago?

----------


## david44

Kneads careful handling, from Russia with glove.

----------


## Begbie

BBC 5 Live 17 March 2018
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09v5vgh

[00:10] The Main News: Russia tells 23 British diplomats they have to leave…
[00:37] The Prime Minister Theresa May says the government is considering its next move after Russia expelled 23 British diplomats. Moscow’s decision was in response to the UK saying the same number of Russian officials must leave following the nerve agent attack on a former spy in Salisbury.

Here’s the Shadow Foreign SecretaryEmily Thornberry:
I’m pleased that the government have now asked for the international community to verify this chemical attack so that there is clear evidence that it was Russia. At the moment it’s a _prima facie_ case that it is, and the government is right to condemn them, and the government is right to take the action that the government has.

Police in Salisbury are renewing their appeal for any witnesses who may have seen Sergei Skripal’s  burgundy BMW before he was found unconscious with his daughter Julia. The pair are still critically ill in hospital, and our reporter Tom Burridge is following investigations in the city:
They’re particularly interested in the car. We’ve seen a lot of work on the car by officers in specialist suits over the last few days, and we saw the car being towed late yesterday. What’s new is that they want to hear from anyone who might have seen the car earlier in the day – at around about 9:15, on three main roads.

[06:00] With Steven Nolan [SN]

[06:30] We’re starting tonight with a roll [??] over the Salisbury nerve agent attack, ‘cos former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Julia remain critically ill in hospital. The debate over who was responsible, and the consequences of the attack, is raging. Russia is to expel 23 British diplomats. Their Foreign Ministry says UK staff will be expelled from Moscow within a week in response to Britain’s decision to expel 23 Russian diplomats. It also says it will close the British Consulate in Russia, which promotes cultural ties between the nations, and the British Consulate in St Petersburg.

The UK government says, ah, they were poisoned with a nerve agent “of a type developed by Russia” called Novichok. The Russian government denies any involvement in the attack. 

Prime Minister Theresa May has been speaking about this today:
In light of their previous behavior, we anticipated a response of this kind, and we will consider our next steps in the coming days, alongside our allies and partners. But Russia’s response doesn’t change the facts of the matter. They attempted assassination of two people on British soil, for which there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian state was culpable. It is Russia that is in flagrant breach of international law and theChemical Weapons Convention.
I repeat today that we have no disagreement with the Russian people. Many Russians have made this country their home, and those who abide by our laws and make a contribution to our society will always be welcome. But we will never tolerate a threat to the life of British citizens, and others, on British soil from the Russian government.

While Russia is not at all disputing Britain’s claim that the Kremlin is most likely to blame for this, I speak toCraig Murray [CM], who’s a former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan

[08:40] Craig, good evening.

CM:        Good evening. 

SN:         Good evening. So why are you not convinced Russia is behind this?

CM:        We’ve clearly not seen enough evidence to come to a definite conclusion, and because Theresa May, as you just said, is obviously milking  it for all it’s worth, trying to sound as Churchillian as possible,  and to, you know, distract attention from the obvious state of the government in general.
                When you see politicians jumping on a bandwagon, trying to become popular, getting well ahead of the evidence, then you have to be very skeptical.

SN:         But why would the British government respond in this way if they weren’t certain?

CM:        Because, as you just heard: it’s popular, they play it to advantage, and it fits in well with their current diplomatic stance against Russia anyway.

                You have to listen very carefully to what they said. A phrase which you’ve repeated and they’ve used, that this is a weapon “of a _type_ developed by Russia.”

                They said that in parliament, they said it in the UN Security Council, and they said it in theJoint Statement by [Britain, France, US, and Merkel]. All those used the exact words: “of a _type_ developed by Russia.”

                And that’s true. You know I’ve got some vodka here, of a type developed by Russia, but it was made in Warrington. The OPCW (theOrganisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons) has always been of a view that there is no [definitive?] evidence that the Russians actually succeeded in synthesizing the Novichoks 

                Novichoks were successfully synthesized in 2016 by Iran, in a controlled programme with OPCW supervision, and reported by the OPCW, and if Iran can synthesize them, then so can many other countries, including the Uk, including the US, including Israel, and quite possible including a number of, you know, a states who might not be too careful of their security and what happens to them.

                Also, we have to consider that there may be countries who had the motive in “setting up” Russia, and trying to damage Putin just as he gets re-elected, and perhaps trying to damage Russia’s international reputation in response to the role Russia has played in Syria.

                So to say “this has to be Russia” is a nonsense. And what’s particularly pernicious is that they are trying to develop that by attempting to imply only Russia has this weapon – which is completely and utterly untrue. And the reason that they always have to use the same phrase: “of a _type_ developed by Russia” is the scientists at Porton Downs refused to sign up to any stronger phrase, and there were very fierce Whitehall battles with the government trying to get them to say it was a Russian agent, and they wouldn’t, because it isn’t. They .. Well there’s no evidence of where it came from and who made it.

SN:         The [NATO ??] General has told the BBC just yesterday that the Alliance had “no reason” to doubt the findings and assessments of the British government.

CM:        Well of course. NATO is controlled by its member states, and France and Germany and Britain and America have made a political decision to go with this line. That’s not evidence. That’s politicians talking. And when they say: “of a _type_ developed by Russia” that shows they haven’t said it’s made in Russia, they haven’t said it’s produced in Russia, they haven’t said it’s manufactured in Russia.

                And no journalist at the BBC has said “Why do you keep saying ‘of a _type_ produced by Russia’? Are you saying this is made in Russia?” No journalist at the BBC has asked the Minister, because the BBC is a puppet of state propaganda as well.

SN:         Well, obviously I would reject that as one of the people who work for the BBC, and that’s just simply not true.

CM:        Have you asked anyone from the government whether this is actually made, produced, or manufactured in …

SN:         Well I haven’t had an interview with the Minister in the government, but if I did, I would. And you’re on the BBC tonight giving a counterview, so I don’t think there’s any point going down this red herring of that we are some type of state sponsored voice for the British government because that is palpably nonsense.

                If it’s not Russia, who would it be Craig?

CM:        Well as I said, there are a number of possible alternatives. One of them is it’s a non-state actor. It could be a Russian non-state actor. Obviously Mr Skripal sold the names of Russian agents to the [UA ??] for money. We don’t know the circumstances. Some of those agents could have been operating in conflict theatres, you know. People could have died because of this. So obviously he would have a great many enemies, not merely the Russian state itself.

                But also, as I say, it could be another state, wishing to pin the blame on Russia, particularly with regard to Russia’s role in Syria. Could be … it’s a good time to undermine Russia, at a time when Putin appears to have played his hand very well and been, if you like, on the winning side of the Syrian conflict. And that brings in a great many states who have the motive to do Russia down.

SN:         You mentioned Israel earlier on. We contacted the Israeli embassy. They said that any claims that Israel is involved in the attack in Salisbury are preposterous and ridiculous.

CM:        Well no more preposterous and ridiculous than Russia. Israel has chemical weapons. Unlike Russia, Israel has never signed the Chemical Weapons Convention. Israel refuses to declare its chemical weapon stocks to the OPCW. It should be said Russia is a member, has signed the Convention. And 40,000 tons of Russian chemical weapons have been destroyed by the OPCW in a programme under OPCW supervision which finished last year. If it’s preposterous that Israel might do it, why is Israel one of a tiny handful of countries – including North Korea – which refuses to sign, or to ratify, the Chemical Weapons Convention. It’s not preposterous – it’s a possibility. I can by no means say “Israel did it” but it’s not impossible.

                It’s not impossible quite a number of people did it. But jumping to the conclusion “it can _only_ be Russia” is simply wrong when there’s simply been no evidence presented to make that clear.

SN:         Stay there for us Craig.

Professor Ivor Gaber [IG] is a Professor of Political Journalism at the University of Sussex, and was involved withAlexander Litvinenko when he came to the UK.
                Good evening to you Ivor.

IG:          Good evening.

SN:         Hi. Do you think Russia is responsible here?

IG:          Oh, I have absolutely no idea. I have no knowledge of it specifically. I mean it looks ... on the balance of possibilities, I would even say probabilities, but that’s not what I know. All I can talk about was my experience with one ex-FSB agent and the insight he gave me into London has become, at the invitation virtually of both governments, the centre of a very shady mixture of oligarchs, of spies, of mafiosi. The mafia wasn’t entirely fictional and it’s not surprising that we see this spate of deaths, unexplained deaths of this class of people who we have welcomed in.

SN:         [Technical issues re sound quality.]

SN:         How does Russia operate – its politicians, its big business?

IG:          I’m going to be one of those embarrassing interviewees who’s going to say that wasn’t my expertise, that wasn’t what I was writing about. I had a piece in theIndependent today. I was writing about my personal experience with Litvinenko and withBoris Berezovsky, and the insights that gave me into how this sort of swamp of  Russian oligarchs, of spies, of gangsters, operate in London, and why I’m not surprise we’ve had all these unexplained and deaths and why …

SN:         So how do they operate in London? Give me an insight into that then.

IG:          Well … The insight that I can offer you is the way that Litvinenko explained it to me in terms of … how shall I put it, [c??] is the wrong word, that many of these oligarchs and people working … espionage agents, andChechen separatists, and other political activists, and gansters all know each other, they all have fairly affluent lifestyles, eating in the same restaurants, living in the same areas, know each other, and business is done and sometimes that business turns bloody. There is very close links one can see between people close to Putin and business oligarchs, some of whom settled here, and they fall out with Putin and sometimes meet an unfortunate end. It happened in the case of the one I dealt with – Mr Berezovsky.

SN:So Putin has the undisputed power, does he, if he wants to, to order the death of anybody? Is that what you’re saying?

IG:          No, I’m not saying. I would not, I’m not sure, I could not see any advantage to Putin ordering the death of the MI6 agent in Salisbury. I can’t see any immediate reason why he’d do that, but I coud see that these people dabble in politics, they dabble in big business, and they get their fingers burned. And there might well be people close to Putin who felt he was an embarrassment and [??] get rid of him. But let me specify I do not know, and make no claim to know. I just had some passing acquaintanceship with that world, and I’m not surprised that we’ve had all these unexplained deaths.

SN:         The Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Craig Murray, have said to us tonight “We’ve no idea what Mr Murray is referring to. The Prime Minister told MPs in Parliament on Monday that world leading experts at Porton Down had positively identified this chemical agent and it is clear that it is a military grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia. None of that is in any doubt.”
                You’ve already covered that Craig, and you’re zooming in on the fact that they’re saying “developed by Russia.” They are unable to say whether it’s … well they’re _not_ saying whether it was actually manufactured in Russia, or the source of it was from Russia. Right?

CM:        Right. No one doubts that Russia had the idea of making these things first, and worked on developing them. It has always been doubted until now that they really succeeded. The Iranians succeeded under OPCW supervision some time ago, and chemical formulae were published to the whole world 20 years ago. So, many states could have done it. The “of a type developed by Russia” thing means nothing. Undoubtedly.

                I should say – and I agree with the good professor – and I think that Russia could have done this. Putin probably does have the power to do this, if he wanted to. And I think Russia definitely is a suspect. But that’s far from the same thing as saying “Russia did it.”

SN:         Okay. Craig Murray and Professor Ivor Gaber, thank you very much indeed

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The Iranians succeeded under OPCW supervision some time ago, and chemical formulae were published to the whole world 20 years ago. So, many states could have done it. The “of a type developed by Russia” thing means nothing. Undoubtedly.


You keep posting this as if somehow it will magically become true.

But it isn't.

----------


## OhOh

> the OPCW have never received a sample of Novichok


Morning 'arry. You don't happen to have the chemical formulae of "Novichoke", do you old chap? The CAS RN + HS Code + Key, would be sufficient.

Novichoke is allegedly translated into english is "New Family". Allegedly numerous chemical bases/binary agents are used to create any one of the "New Family" chemical weapons. But of course you may know more than I.

It would make the search of the attached database somewhat easier. Being chemists they use chemical names and pretty schematics to describe the things, not 8 letter, punchy, Russian sounding words.

Here is a snapped image example for what's required:

Typical chemical name:

1-Isobutyl-3-methylbutyl isopropylphosphonofluoridate

and a typical screen shot of picture of one of the 1,500 odd chemicals spread over 54 pages:



Looking forward to you clarifying and you substantiating your assertion. Or are you just being obstructive?


 ::chitown:: 

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/..._Oct_2014_.pdf

----------


## Pragmatic

> For clarity (again): the OPCW have never received a sample of Novichok nor have they had a member state tell them they have it.


 Doesn't the USA have it? I understood they obtained it, along with Uzbekistan, when they cleaned up the manufacturing site in 1999? I could be wrong.

https://www.sott.net/article/380244-...-Plant-Cleanup

----------


## OhOh

Has ameristan admitted it to the OPCW?

 :Smile: 

Yesterday the UK government finally went down the internationally agreed official route, calling in the OPCW. Lets await the report, should be available in a month or so.

 :St George: 

In addition the announcement includes a further allegation:

_"The Foreign Secretary revealed this morning that we have information  indicating that within the last decade, Russia has investigated ways of  delivering nerve agents likely for assassination. And part of this  programme has involved producing and stockpiling quantities of novichok.  This is a violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention."

_As per-normal in these things, one hopes they share the "evidence" with the OPCW ,to support this claim._

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/i...o-arrive-in-uk
_

----------


## Pragmatic

> Has ameristan admitted it to the OPCW?


 Best if you don't tell.  You can then take advantage of it when you need it.

----------


## Cujo

Trump reckons the russkies did it.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rmer-spy-video

Video in the link

Donald Trump pointed the finger at Russia in the poisoning of a former Russian spy in Great Britain, saying he had spoken with the British prime minister, Theresa May. During a meeting with Ireland's prime minister in the Oval Office, Trump said it was something 'that should never, ever happen'. The US has joined Britain, France and Germany in a joint statement blaming Moscow for the poisoning of an ex-Russian spy who was living in England. The list of Russians now under sanction includes the 13 indicted last month by the US special counsel Robert Mueller as part of his Russia-related investigation into alleged election interference.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Doesn't the USA have it? I understood they obtained it, along with Uzbekistan, when they cleaned up the manufacturing site in 1999? I could be wrong.
> 
> https://www.sott.net/article/380244-...-Plant-Cleanup


All that link confirms is:




> *The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of "Novichoks".* (OPCW, 2013)


Which allows the whackjobs that run the site to claim that they don't exist.

And also confirms that OhOh is still pissing to the wind.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Morning 'arry. You don't happen to have the chemical formulae of "Novichoke", do you old chap?


No, and neither do the OPCW. Can't you fucking read either?

 ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

> No, and neither do the OPCW. Can't you fucking read either?


A lot can occur since 2013 'arry. I'm sure the list of which chemicals are included and which countries are cleared of having CW is updated annually at least.






> Trump reckons the russkies did it.


Not at all, he agreed to the statement that Russia is "highly likely" and to Russia to assist in clarifying the situation. Which Russia suggested under the OPCW control. Now that has been accepted by the UK, Russia will gleefully join the investigation, analysis and reporting efforts by the OPCW. Visiting the incident site, the site of the analysis, assisting with a sample analysis undertaken in Russia and adding aspects to the OPCW report that the UK may have "forgotten".


" The US has joined Britain, France and Germany in a joint statement blaming Moscow"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rmer-spy-video*Partners support the UK*

_"Russia should, in particular, provide full and complete disclosure of  the Novichok programme to the Organization for the Prohibition of  Chemical Weapons (OPWC), says the statement.

_
_The UK’s partners share its view that there is no plausible  alternative explanation. Russia’s refusal to respond to the UK’s  legitimate questions are seen as a further indication that it is  responsible.

_
_The United Kingdom explained to its partners in detail that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for the attack."

_From the official German government website:

https://www.bundesregierung.de/Conte...html?nn=393830

1. "provide full and complete disclosure of  the Novichok programme to the Organization for the Prohibition of  Chemical Weapons (OPWC)" How do you know they haven't already as illustrated in the 2017 OPCW announcement of the complete eradication of Russian CW in Russia, as previously posted here?

2. "no plausible  alternative explanation" Is their opinion prior to an authoritative investigation.

3. "that it is highly likely" As many have pointed out, if the UK Government had any evidence it would have paraded it around the world. As they haven't that expression is the strongest agreed by all the parties lawyers.

----------


## harrybarracuda

You're pretty well just waffling aren't you.

Russia has it.

Everyone knows Russia has it.

The OPCW wants it.

Russia denies it has it.

Pretty well sums it up.

Only one person can change that and he's too busy basking in the "glory" of his fake election.

You can waffle away as much as you like but it doesn't really change anything.




> As many have pointed out, if the UK Government had any evidence it would have paraded it around the world.


You still haven't grasped this concept of "classified", have you?

----------


## OhOh

> You still haven't grasped this concept of "classified", have you?


No proof of Russia currently having it.

You mistakenly believe anything that is classified is unusable, if a politician wishes to profit from it being revealed it will be revealed.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> No proof of Russia currently having it.
> 
> You mistakenly believe anything that is classified is unusable, if a politician wishes to profit from it being revealed it will be revealed.


Clearly you have never heard of the Official Secrets Act.

----------


## OhOh

^

I don't think many would weep if Boris lost his head.

----------


## OhOh

A briefing note from concerned chemists. Snippets below, background in attachment.

Doubts about ?Novichoks? ? Working Group on Syria, Propaganda and Media

Working Group on Syria, Propaganda and Media                                    

_Summary of key issues that need to be addressed

__"1) There are reasons to doubt that these compounds are  military grade nerve agents or that a Russian “Novichok” programme ever  existed. If they were potentially usable as chemical weapons, people on  the OPCW Scientific Advisory Board who were in a position to know the  properties of these compounds would have recommended that they be added  to the list of Scheduled Chemicals. They have never been added. 


_
_2) Synthesis at bench scale of organic  chemicals such as the purported “Novichoks” is within the capability of a  modern chemistry laboratory. Porton Down itself must have been able to  synthesize these compounds in order to develop tests for them.  The  detection of such a compound does not establish Russian origin. 

_*As the structures of these compounds have been  described, any organic chemist with a modern lab would be able to  synthesize bench scale quantities of such a compound. Indeed, Porton  Down must have been able to synthesize these compounds in order to  develop tests for them. It is therefore misleading to assert that only  Russia could have produced such compounds. 



*A letter from the UK OPCW Ambassadoor 2017 annual review of the work accomplished. Included is a statement regarding Russia's verified conclusion of the destruction of Russia's declared chemical weapons programme.

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/..._Statement.pdf

----------


## Neo

> Or are you just being obstructive?


You're giving him too much credit.. if it wasn't for snub then harry would be the dumbest poster in this thread  :Yup:

----------


## OhOh

A video from a Russian TV station . The Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesman Maria Zakharova is the guest.

You get to hear what Maria Zakharova had to say in response to the British campaign of lies and deception.

----------


## tomcat

> You get to hear what Maria Zakharova had to say in response to the British campaign of lies and deception


...at last, an unbiased opinion from a reliable source... :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ...at last, an unbiased opinion from a reliable source...


Putin wrote it, it must be true.

 :Smile:

----------


## Albert Shagnasty2017

> if it wasn't for snub then harry would be the dumbest poster in this thread


Yup.

Harry the whackjob, and a veritable smorgasbord of star-spangled spastics.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Yup.
> 
> Harry the whackjob, and a veritable smorgasbord of star-spangled spastics.


Albert calling *me* a whackjob!

Oh dear.

Hiding your tin foil hat Albert?

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

<Moved>

----------


## OhOh

> ...at last, an unbiased opinion from a reliable source





> Putin wrote it, it must be true.

----------


## tomcat

..."When you quote from unreliable sources, you bring ridicule upon your post."... -Tomcat...

----------


## OhOh

> And a brutal response from an actual fucking chemist.
> 
> http://www.iflscience.com/chemistry/...spy-to-shreds/


This immage below appears, to me, to be a record of tweets. Not being a user I am presuming those who desired to, could quickly find it.

In the first image Clyde Davies confirms that the Porton Doen have changed their opinion.

_

_ The second image is a conversation between an unknown "Kevin Smyth" and  "Clyde Davies",( 'arrys renowned media worshipped chemist of repute,)  who only types the truth.

_"Then along came the man who really did put me to shame. A Mr Kevin Smyth  who completely demolished Davis with a simple polite question":

_



_"
That part of the exchange is also missing from the thread being circulated so gleefully at the moment.
 So what does Davies tell us in this article delivered by twitter which “demolishes” my article.


1) Davies acknowledges that until recently Porton Down and  OPCW doubted the physical existence of “novichoks”. He says they have  now changed their minds. [Porton Down has indeed undergone a remarkable change of mind in the last week , but the OPCW has yet to see the evidence].

2) Davis states that chemists can tell if a compound corresponds  to one of the “novichoks” described by Mirzyanov, but Davis  specifically accepts that does not prove Russian manufacture.

3) Davis nevertheless states strongly it is Russia because he believes Russia has form and motive._

 Nothing here can remotely be said to be conclusive. The question that  puzzles me, is why are so many mainstream media journalists gleefully  seizing on this series of tweets as a destruction of the need for  sceptical inquiry?"

Looks like the Russian de-mining squad have saved a few more from 'arrys presumptive explosion.

----------


## Klondyke

> ..."When you quote from unreliable sources, you bring ridicule upon your post."... -Tomcat...


In contrast to "reliable sources" of UK PM's offices:




> Blair said he had wanted to set the Iraqi people free and secure them from the evil of Saddam Hussein, but instead they had become victims of sectarian violence.
> 
> For all of this, I express more sorrow, regret and apology than you can ever know or believe, he said, in a speech in which his voice cracked with emotion.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rt-war-inquiry


Another joker:



> Originally Posted by *harrybarracuda*  (Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance)
> _Putin wrote it, it must be true._


In contrast to "true" speeches ("cracked with emotion") of UK PM...

----------


## OhOh

A letter to the Times 14/3/18, provides a little clarity of the status of alleged 141/ 41 or 43 victims of Russian chemical weapons on UK soil.



The letter from Stephen Davies, Consultant in Emergency Medicine Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust, who is employed at the highest medical doctor, level "consultant", at the hospital where the alleged 141 possibly in danger/41 CW affected patients are being/have been treated.

Casts doubts on the seriousness of the incident. "No patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning."

NO CW PATIENTS, 3 POISONED IN SALISBURY

One would also expect the MSM to publish articles rejoicing this ending to the non-event. However there appears to be a reluctance to highlight the balls up, once again, by UK politicians and MSM.

----------


## OhOh

Craig Murray talks about Skripal case to George Galloway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDrdlYZXa_o

----------


## Neverna

> A letter to the Times 14/3/18, provides a little clarity of the status of alleged 141/ 41 or 43 victims of Russian chemical weapons on UK soil.
> 
> 
> 
> The letter from Stephen Davies, Consultant in Emergency Medicine Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust, who is employed at the highest medical doctor, level "consultant", at the hospital where the alleged 141 possibly in danger/41 CW affected patients are being/have been treated.
> 
> Casts doubts on the seriousness of the incident. "No patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning."
> 
> NO CW PATIENTS, 3 POISONED IN SALISBURY


That seems to be an error. It is certainly different in meaning to the following.


Dozens of patients who went to hospital after the Salisbury poisoning were unaffected by the nerve agent, a doctor has revealed. In a letter to The Times Dr Davies writes that no patients experienced symptoms other than the three with significant poisoning




https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ctor-vf9v0zg0m

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That seems to be an error. It is certainly different in meaning to the following.
> 
> 
> Dozens of patients who went to hospital after the Salisbury poisoning were unaffected by the nerve agent, a doctor has revealed. In a letter to The Times Dr Davies writes that no patients experienced symptoms other than the three with significant poisoning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ctor-vf9v0zg0m


There is no error. It's quite deliberate.


Tin Foil hatwearer SOP.

----------


## OhOh

I don't have access to the full Times story, behind a pay wall. But from what is published here in the Times letter page and Neverna's snippet of the Times article




> a doctor has revealed


An unnamed, unidentified "doctor" states, "were unaffected by the nerve agent". End of sentence. No name, no credibility.

A, possible different, named doctor, position stated, to put the record on his knowledge of the facts, writes to the alleged UK "paper of record", whose published phrases are:

1. "No patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning"
2. "three patients with significant poisoning."

Taken together the statement , they can be interpreted as, All the patients have not experienced any nerve agent poisoning. Only three of the examined patients have been treated for "significant poisoning". Of an unnamed type, developed by an unnamed, possibly foreign, country. 

One country, who recently held a Presidential election may be, by some, an unproven suspect. There are other unproven suspects, capable, willing, knowledgeable with proven previous use of CW.

----------


## OhOh

> For clarity (again): the OPCW have never received a sample of Novichok nor have they had a member state tell them they have it


For clarity, the term "Novichok" was created by a Russian in his book published many years ago. In it, the writer describes some chemicals with very long names which maybe, by the writer, included under his "Novichok" family name.

You have yet to identify any of the alleged chemicals used in Salisbury, nobody has. As such in the OPCW list of chemical weapons they may exist. Until somebody names the chemicals, nobody can be confident in stating "OPCW have never received a sample of Novichok nor have they had a member state tell them they have", the yet to be announced/described chemical weapons, allegedly used in Salisbury this month.

Possibly the OPCW team, now requested by the UK government to investigate this problem, will "clarify" the names in their eagerly awaited report.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I don't have access to the full Times story, behind a pay wall. But from what is published here in the Times letter page and Neverna's snippet of the Times article
> 
> 
> 
> An unnamed, unidentified "doctor" states, "were unaffected by the nerve agent". End of sentence. No name, no credibility.
> 
> A, possible different, named doctor, position stated, to put the record on his knowledge of the facts, writes to the alleged UK "paper of record", whose published phrases are:
> 
> 1. "No patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning"
> ...


They *can* be interpreted in the way you wish if you are silly conspiracy theorist, yes.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> For clarity, the term "Novichok" was created by a Russian in his book published many years ago. In it, the writer describes some chemicals with very long names which maybe, by the writer, included under his "Novichok" family name.
> 
> You have yet to identify any of the alleged chemicals used in Salisbury, nobody has. As such in the OPCW list of chemical weapons they may exist. Until somebody names the chemicals, nobody can be confident in stating "OPCW have never received a sample of Novichok nor have they had a member state tell them they have", the yet to be announced/described chemical weapons, allegedly used in Salisbury this month.
> 
> Possibly the OPCW team, now requested by the UK government to investigate this problem, will "clarify" the names in their eagerly awaited report.


Possibly they will keep you in the dark while the investigation proceeds, which is the norm.




> _Inspectors from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) are arriving in the U.K. to assess samples of the nerve agent used in the attack against former Russian double-agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter earlier this month.
> The OPCW team will study the substance at the military research facility Porton Down, which is located just outside the city of Salisbury, where the attack took place._


Meanwhile, as you either missed it or are ignoring it:




> ...government scientists have identified the nerve agent used, but will not be making that information public at this stage.A source familiar with the investigation told the BBC the agent was likely to be rarer than the Sarin gas thought to have been used in Syria and in an attack on the Tokyo subway in 1995.
> And it was said not to be VX - the nerve agent used to kill the half brother of the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un in Malaysia last year.
> Earlier, Ms Rudd told the BBC the nerve agent used in the poisoning was "very rare".


Russian spy: Salisbury attack was 'brazen and reckless' - BBC News

----------


## OhOh

I don't really rate BBC news, too much propaganda.  Dr. Who now, that's different.

----------


## Pragmatic

> _The OPCW team will study the substance at the military research facility Porton Down, which is located just outside the city of Salisbury, where the attack took place._


 That was handy.

----------


## OhOh

> They *can* be interpreted in the way you wish if you are silly conspiracy theorist, yes.


How can you accept the UK stance, if as you believe, there are alternatives?




> Possibly they will keep you in the dark while the investigation proceeds, which is the norm.


Understood, but to claim one result, accusing another country of an act of war, as the only one, prior to the investigation being completed in accordance with OPCW procedures, seems premature. IMHO.

----------


## birding

Seems strange that Russia would attempt to kill this 'former spy' and his daughter when they were in England, if they had wanted him dead they could have killed him at any time when he was in prison in Russia before he was 'swapped'.

His daughter lives in Moscow and could have met with an accident at any time and no one would have even heard about it.

And to use something that could be pointed back at Russia, no strange is not the correct word unbelievable is closer for Russia had no reason or motive for wanting them dead at this time and in particular in a way that was bound to gain international media attention.

But those who will believe anything against Russia are in for their chop.

----------


## Klondyke

An outstanding example of an "overwhelming" hypocrisy. 

How all the "friends" from the exited Union hurrying obediently (some not very but nevertheless) be on hand.  Cannot remember such similar case of the vassals of the old good Soviet bloc. 

And that all in the time of the huge turmoil in ME where one life means nothing not speaking about thousands lives and unrepairable damages .

Or is it just a test how much inflatable rubbish the "international community" will swallow?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Seems strange that Russia would attempt to kill this 'former spy' and his daughter when they were in England, if they had wanted him dead they could have killed him at any time when he was in prison in Russia before he was 'swapped'.
> 
> His daughter lives in Moscow and could have met with an accident at any time and no one would have even heard about it.
> 
> And to use something that could be pointed back at Russia, no strange is not the correct word unbelievable is closer for Russia had no reason or motive for wanting them dead at this time and in particular in a way that was bound to gain international media attention.
> 
> But those who will believe anything against Russia are in for their chop.


But then they wouldn't have had anyone for swapsies would they?

Duh.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> An outstanding example of an "overwhelming" hypocrisy. 
> 
> How all the "friends" from the exited Union hurrying obediently (some not very but nevertheless) be on hand.  Cannot remember such similar case of the vassals of the old good Soviet bloc. 
> 
> And that all in the time of the huge turmoil in ME where one life means nothing not speaking about thousands lives and unrepairable damages .
> 
> Or is it just a test how much inflatable rubbish the "international community" will swallow?



Anyone?

Because I'm fucked if I know what he's gibbering on about.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That was handy.


Not really, there are all sorts of military facilities in that part of Blighty.

----------


## wasabi

I know who done it,  the same group who killed Lady Diana and reporter Jill Dando.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I know who done it,  the same group who killed Lady Diana and reporter Jill Dando.


And presumably Marvin Acme.

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## Neverna

> There is no error. It's quite deliberate.
> 
> 
> Tin Foil hatwearer SOP.


Perhaps his source was the Moon of Alabama website, which has an image showing a letter purporting to be from the Times. 



MoA - "No Patients Have Experienced Symptoms Of Nerve Agent Poisoning In Salisbury"

----------


## david44

Time 4 a Ruby, Murray oft abused due to his admitted personality issues, however he knows the game from inside

----------


## misskit

*One of the Soviet scientists who developed ‘Novichok’ says there are dozens of people in Russia who still know how to make it*The Bell
22:26, 20 march 2018





The newsletter The Bell published an interview on March 20 with Vladimir Uglev, one of the Soviet scientists at the state chemical research institute known as “GosNIIOKhT,” who helped developed “Novichok” — the nerve agent reportedly used to poison ex-spy Sergey Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, in England, earlier this month. Here are the biggest revelations from the interview:



There are four compounds that combine to form what’s called “Novichok”: A-1972, B-1976, C-1976, and D-1980 (each named after the years they were created).The substance was developed on orders from the Soviet Defense Ministry to serve as the USSR’s response to VX. Scientists worked on the poison from 1972 to 1988.There is no antidote to B-1976, C-1976, or D-1980. If Skripal and his daughter were exposed to a near-lethal dose of any one of these substances, then they will die as soon as they’re disconnected from life support.Novichok’s formula is still known to several dozen people in Russia today.“Binary weapons,” where two harmless compounds are combined to force a supposedly lethal nerve agent, do not exist, according to Uglev.

Earlier on March 20, the Russian state news agency RIA Novosti published an interview with another scientist at GosNIIOKhT, Leonid Rink, who denies that Russia could be involved in the poisoning of the Skripals.






https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/03...how-to-make-it

----------


## harrybarracuda

> “Binary weapons,” where two harmless compounds are combined to force a supposedly lethal nerve agent, do not exist, according to Uglev.


To save anyone having to debunk the whole load of shite:




> Binary components for the three most common nerve agents (American code names are given in brackets) are the following:
> Sarin (GB-2): methylphosphoryldifluoride (DF) + isopropanol. The isopropanol is included in a mixture (OPA) with isopropylamine which binds the hydrogen fluoride generated.Soman (GD-2): methylphosphoryldifluorid (DF) + pinacolylalcohol.VX-2: O-ethyl O-2-diisopropylaminoethyl methylphosphonite (QL) + sulphur.
> https://www.opcw.org/about-chemical-...-agents/#c4114

----------


## cyrille

I see that walking expense account Juncker was congratulating Putin yesterday on his win.

What a smug pos he is.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I see that walking expense account Juncker was congratulating Putin yesterday on his win.
> 
> What a smug pos he is.


So did baldy orange cunto. Then again, Putin probably ordered him to.

----------


## david44

another view from offguardian

https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/15/...ovichok-story/

_Published on March 15, 2018_
_Comments 122_
*The farcical reality behind Theresa May’s “novichok” story*






22 Votes


*We already know UK PM Theresa May misrepresented the Russian law on executing terrorists in foreign lands, in order to bolster her currently evidence-free claims of Russian culpability in the poisoning of ex-MI6 employee Sergey Skripal. Her narrative remains, as of March 15, bald and unconvincing. But it seems things may be about to get even worse for her and what some see as her bid to “Falklandise” her flagging premiership. It seems the “nerve agent” she claims was used to attack Skripal and his daughter may not actually exist.*_the 2008 book in which dissident Soviet scientist Vil Mirzayanov published the formula for “novichok” which Theresa May pretends is a secret known only to Russia_Incredible as it may seem given the tale of certitude told by May in Parliament, and given the column inches used up in the media assuring the UK public how terrifyingly toxic “novichok” really is, the evidence for this alleged super-poison’s existence currently rests solely on the unproven claims of a dissident soviet “military chemist” named Vil Mirzayanov.
Mirzayanov told his western handlers a group of new (“novichok” in Russian can be translated as “new stuff” or “new arrival”) and allegedly highly dangerous compounds which he claimed could be created by combining commonly available substances, but it turns out western scientists were far from convinced by his claims, and, even as recently as two years ago, the efficacy and even the existence, of these “novichoks” was still deemed to be entirely speculative.
For example in 2013 the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (the body the UK refuses to work with in the Skripal case) had this to say about the potential reality of novichoks:
Regarding new toxic chemicals not listed in the Annex on Chemicals but which may nevertheless pose a risk to the Convention, the SAB makes reference to “Novichoks”. The name “Novichok” is used in a publication of a former Soviet scientist who reported investigating a new class of nerve agents suitable for use as binary chemical weapons. The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of “Novichoks”Report of the Scientific Advisory Boardon Developments in Science and Technology for The Third Review Conference p. 3, section 8And again in 2016 Dr Robin Black, former head of the detection laboratory at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down made the same point:
In recent years, there has been much speculation that a fourth generation of nerve agents, ‘Novichoks’ (newcomer), was developed in Russia, beginning in the 1970s as part of the ‘Foliant’ programme, with the aim of finding agents that would compromise defensive countermeasures. Information on these compounds has been sparse in the public domain, mostly originating from a dissident Russian military chemist, Vil Mirzayanov. No independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has been published. Robin Black (Dr), Development, Historical Use and Properties of Chemical Warfare Agents. Royal Society of Chemistry 2016, cited in “Doubts about novichoks” by Piers Robinson & Paul McKeigueWhat these publications are effectively saying is – there’s no evidence any of these compounds work in the way claimed and Mirzayanov may very possibly be exaggerating or inventing.
Which raises the question – how did the scientists allegedly sourced by May suddenly feel able to not only identify this previously poorly understood and questionable substance, but identify where it came from and lay claim to it being massively deadly and toxic? As Craig Murray says (our emphasis):
…now, the British Government is claiming to be able instantly to identify a substance which its only biological weapons research centre has never seen before and was unsure of its existence. Worse, it claims to be able not only to identify it, but to pinpoint its origin. Given Dr Black’s publication, it is plain that claim cannot be true.But that’s not all. There’s also problems with May’s claim that the “novichok” formula is a deep secret, known only to the Russians. Mirzanayov was interviewed by AFP about the Skripal case and this is what he said:
“Only the Russians” developed this class of nerve agents, said the chemist. “They kept it and are still keeping it in secrecy.”Exactly what May said in Parliament. Great. Just one problem. Mirzayanov neglected to mention that this “secret formula” known only to “the Russians” had been published in 2008 _in his own book_ – still available on Amazon today.
Given the fact that anyone with an internet connection and $8.16 to spend could have obtained the “secret” recipe for novichok (which it seems most scientists don’t think would work anyway), and anyone with a decent professional laboratory could presumably manufacture it (again supposing it even works as claimed) will May correct her deceptive claims to Parliament and the British public?
Will the media continue to help her maintain her crumbling narrative? Are we watching WMD#2 with added depths of cynicism?

----------


## OhOh

> Perhaps his source was the Moon of Alabama website


If you have access to the Times web site, presumably you can confirm the letter. I don't, which disables me from commenting as to whether it is fake or not. The link you provided , because the mass is behind a pay wall, clarifies nothing.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ctor-vf9v0zg0m

As for MOA site, it relies extensively on "published" by reputable sources, to mould it's opinions. The site plus comments page are open to all. many times the commentators provide much interesting info. Not always proven to be correct, but sourced by worldwide commentators and  from worldwide publishers of allegedly facts.

----------


## OhOh

I know Russia uses similar planes to this one, but does it have any bouncing bombs, to breach the dam of lies and expose the dark secrets of the lake bottom?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> If you have access to the Times web site, presumably you can confirm the letter. I don't, which disables me from commenting as to whether it is fake or not. The link you provided , because the mass is behind a pay wall, clarifies nothing.
> 
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ctor-vf9v0zg0m
> 
> As for MOA site, it relies extensively on "published" by reputable sources, to mould it's opinions. The site plus comments page are open to all. many times the commentators provide much interesting info. Not always proven to be correct, but sourced by worldwide commentators and  from worldwide publishers of allegedly facts.


You forget that sites like this attract whackjobs like yourself, so neither the "worldwide commentators" nor "worldwide publishers" of such fucking nonsense have any credibility.

Further, you continue to either misunderstand or deliberately try to misrepresent the letter, which essentially said that only three people were affected by the nerve agent, the two victims and an attending police officer.

Do try and keep up.

----------


## OhOh

> which essentially said that only three people were affected by the nerve agent, the two victims and an attending police officer


"Essentially" does not equate to proven by evidence/facts, it again, is your unproven "opinion".

The letter, allegedly published in the Times, states quite clearly "*No patients* have experienced symptoms *of nerve agent poisoning*"

The letter, allegedly published in the Times, states quite clearly "*three patients* with *significant poisoning*.". 

What is not stated is that the poison was a "nerve agent".

As posted by me #334.

But again, I await the report of the OPCW to confirm, or not, my currently held "opinion" being correct. As opposed to the UK government which has already accused Russia of an act of war.

Why await the report, because the UK has previous in starting wars based on lies and slaughtering millions of men, women and children.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> "Essentially" does not equate to proven by evidence/facts, it again, is your unproven "opinion".
> 
> The letter, allegedly published in the Times states quite clearly "three patients with significant poisoning.". What is not stated is that the poison was a "chemical weapon", as opposed to the previous sent ace which clearly states none were affected with


Sheesh. People have to talk to you whackjobs as if you're fucking seven year olds. Unless everything is spelt out in capital letters, you see conspiracy theories in everything.

His letter was merely to say that no patients were treated for nerve agent poisoning other than the two victims and the policemen.

I think he if wanted to join you nutters in denying this ever happened, he would have worn a tin foil hat and screamed "It's not a nerve agent, it's Ameristan wibble wibble" or the usual sort of shit you lot come out with.

----------


## Scottish Gary

Why would Putin go to the hassle of trying to assassinate an old spy in Britain when he could have killed him when he was in jail in Russia?  This is an MI6  job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.

----------


## Cujo

> Why would Putin go to the hassle of trying to assassinate an old spy in Britain when he could have killed him when he was in jail in Russia?  This is an MI6  job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.


 :rofl:

----------


## Pragmatic

> This is an MI6 job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.


 And I thought you to be a knowledgeable fellow.   :Trolling:

----------


## Begbie

> Why would Putin go to the hassle of trying to assassinate an old spy in Britain when he could have killed him when he was in jail in Russia?  This is an MI6  job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.


Or more likely Russian mafia settling some scores.

----------


## Albert Shagnasty2017

It could have been done by any number of "interested parties".

However, in the current climate of ridiculous "It was the Russians!" mania, the smart money would be on it being one of them that wanted to increase the hysteria.

As has been mentioned many times, why would a very smart operator like Putin, shoot himself in the foot over a long time has-been that poses no threat. Especially right before the Russian election.

Theresa May's response has been a genuine embarrasment to the UK, and to be frank, seems even more than a little bit fishy.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Why would Putin go to the hassle of trying to assassinate an old spy in Britain when he could have killed him when he was in jail in Russia?  This is an MI6  job to try and deflect attention away from the governments shambolic handling of Brexit.


As has already been mentioned if you read the whole thread, he was used in a good old fashioned spy swap.

I don't think they'd trade a dead spy for a live one.

----------


## tomcat

> Especially right before the Russian election.


...and what a cliffhanger _that_  promised to be...

----------


## OhOh

It appears that ameristan knew enough about Novichok to be worried in 1999 and 2001.

Exceptional Chemical Response Articles U.S News & World Report; A mystery at a pesticide plant; Oct 25, 1999, p42

_"According to intelligence sources, two former subordinates of retired Gen Anatoly Kuntsevich, the former deputy commander of the Russian Army Chemical Corps, have been reported as being at an Iraqi pesticide plant. Gen Kuntsevich, running afoul of
_
_Russian authorities, illicitly attempted in 1994 to ship chemical weapons components to Syria, with Iraq as the suspected recipient.  Alarmingly, according to Mideast intelligence source these two former Russian Army officers, who call themselves civilian agricultural advisers, are experts in a relatively new class of Russian chemical weapons, known as the Novichok group.  

_
_These newer compounds, which are at least five times more lethal than the VX nerve gas found in Iraq after the gulf war, can’t be detected by current U.S. sensors, and victims are virtually untreatable."

_https://www3.uakron.edu/ander/assets/chemexc.pdf_
_
More worries from 2001 Report by (page 4):

_"National  Institute  for  Public  Policy is  a  nonprofit  corporation  founded  in  1981  to  promote  public  education  on international issues.  National Institute study efforts address a range of topics in national security affairs, including U.S. - Russian relations, weapons proliferation, ballistic missile defense, deterrence theory, long - range air power, and  intelligence reform."_

Iraq’s Asymmetric Threat to the United States and U.S. Allies


DDr. Kathleen C. Bailey December, 2001


"_Another  worrisome  prospect  is  that  Iraq  may  have  received  help  from  Russian  experts  to  make  CW agents  several  times  more  lethal  than  the  deadly  nerve  agent  VX.    There  have  been  reports  that  at  least two  Russian  experts  formerly  associated  with  the  Russian  Novichok  program  have  been  sighted  at  an Iraqi  chemical  facility. 6 Novichok  agents  are  highly  lethal,  cannot  be  detected  by  western  chemical warning devices 7 and may be able to render western CW protective gear useless against attack.

U.S. News & World Report "Bad Chemistry:  A mystery at a pesticide plant," 25 October 1999.  This article stated, in part, " The two Russians, according to intelligence sources, are former subordinates of retired Gen. Anatoly Kuntsevich, the former deputy commander  of  the  Russian  Army  Chemical  Corps.    Kuntsevich  ran  afoul  of  Russian  authorities  in  an  illicit  1994  attempt  to  ship  chemical weapons components to Syria and, investigators suspected, from there to Iraq.  United Nations weapons inspectors were tipped off last year that he,or people associated with him, were making overtures to Baghdad."_

http://www.nipp.org/wp-content/uploa...symmetry.2.pdf

----------


## Neo

> As has already been mentioned if you read the whole thread, he was used in a good old fashioned spy swap.
> 
> I don't think they'd trade a dead spy for a live one.


you're making snub seem ingenious in comparison  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

Oh dear, Bumbling Boris has admitted Porton Down has the "Novichok" chemical weapon. Last week the only place that had it was Russia. What will be their new reason to blame Russia.

One wonders who briefs these dumb, lying, fuckwits.

Look in a mirror Boris.

*Boris Johnson: Russia's position in Skripal case is 'increasingly bizarre'
*
Interviewer: "_You argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is  Russia. 

Bumbling Boris: How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain  possess samples of it?_ 

_Bumbling Boris:_ Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory …  _Interviewer: So they have the samples …
_
*Bumbling Boris: They  do. And they were absolutely categorical* and I asked the guy myself, I  said, "Are you sure?" And he said there's no doubt. We have very little  alternative but to take the action that we have taken"

Boris Johnson: Russia?s position in Skripal case is ?increasingly bizarre? | Europe| News and current affairs from around the continent | DW | 20.03.2018

*Nerve agent: Who controls the world's most toxic chemicals?*

The BBC also admits that anybody may have these chemical weapons, for research purposes, the OPCW allegedly keeps tabs on whose has what. They state 
they were never declared by anybody ......

_"The Novichoks - those thought to have been used against the Skripals -  were never declared to the OPCW, and the chemicals never formed part of  any control regime partly because of uncertainty about their chemical  structures.

__And specific names are crucial, because the CWC allows  countries to legally possess a wide range of chemicals if they are  identifiable.
_
_Under the convention, countries are allowed stocks  of toxic chemicals and their precursors for peaceful purposes including  industry, agriculture, research and medicine.

For recognised or  potential chemical weapons, and chemicals that may be involved in their  manufacture, only limited quantities can be kept.
_
_Signatories are  allowed to hold a combined total of one tonne and one facility, usually a  laboratory, where these substances can be made.
_
_These stocks can  be used  to develop protective clothing, gas masks, antidotes and for  developing methods to identify chemical weapons._
_Auditing of these stocks by the OPCW is down to the milligram level.

_
_For other substances more widely used in industry, but which may be used to make chemical weapons, stocks are closely monitored.
_
_Complete  records of the quantities manufactured, sold, used or disposed of must  be kept by governments and the information passed to the OPCW every  year."

Nerve agent: Who controls the world's most toxic chemicals? - BBC News
_



Who will trust British politicians ever again? Some here will continue to suck up the puke they vomit with every word they say.


 :rofl:

----------


## tomcat

"Knowing your post contains deliberate distortions is worse than the submission of mere inaccuracies because some errors only make readers angry while being misled destroys their trust." -Tomcat

----------


## harrybarracuda

> "Knowing your post contains deliberate distortions is worse than the submission of mere inaccuracies because some errors only make readers angry while being misled destroys their trust." -Tomcat


Trust? Ohoh?

Oh dear.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

^  ^^

Amusing but factual?

----------


## Neo

harry stroking one out to Tomcat shagging his own arse  :Greddy2:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> harry stroking one out to Tomcat shagging his own arse



Please keep your perverted homosexual fantasies to yourself.

----------


## OhOh

A conspiracy or the truth:

 *Four days to declare a Cold War* by     Thierry Meyssan 


http://www.voltairenet.org/article200232.html

----------


## OhOh

An official Aide-memoire from the office of the Russian Foreign Ministry.

_"
_
_Foreign policy/__News/_ 




_                             21 March 2018 21:33                                                     _ 

*Aide-memoire  to clarify the state of affairs  as regards the so-called ‘Skripal case’                                * 

_                                             535-21-03-2018                                        _ 


_                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     en-GB1                                                                                                                                                                                          ru-RU1                                                                                                                                                   _  



_AIDE-MEMOIRE_
_to clarify the state of affairs_
_as regards the so-called ‘Skripal case’__1.  On 12 March 2018, Prime Minister of Great Britain Theresa May,  addressing the House of Commons, said it was "highly likely" that the  Russian Federation was responsible for the poisoning of former GRU  colonel, double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia Skripal on 4  March 2018 in Salisbury, with a nerve agent identified according to  British classification as A-234.__The  United Kingdom has publicly raised a question about Russia's  "concealing" and "using" part of its chemical arsenal, thus alleging  that Russia has "violated" its obligations under the Convention on the  Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and Use of  Chemical Weapons and on Their Destruction (CWC) – one of the most  effective multilateral treaties in the disarmament and non-proliferation  field, which was initiated, among others, by our country.
_
_Thus,  the United Kingdom has come out against Russia as well as against the  Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) itself and  the tremendous work that has been done within this organization during  the last two decades, including with participation of the United  Kingdom.

Pursuant  to the requirements of Article III of the CWC, the Russian Federation  submitted a full and complete declaration of all its chemical weapons  stockpiles. That data was thoroughly checked and verified by the  inspection teams of the OPCW Technical Secretariat. The fact of the full  elimination of Russia's chemical arsenal has been officially confirmed  by the authorized international institution – the OPCW.
_
_2.  On 12 March 2018, given the gravity of the accusations brought against  our country, the Russian Embassy in London sent a note verbale to the  Foreign Office of Great Britain requesting access to the investigation  materials, including samples of the chemical agent that British  investigators were referring to, so that it could be tested by our  experts in the framework of joint investigation.
_
_Thus,  we proposed to act in accordance with paragraph 2 of Article IX of the  CWC. It stipulates that States Parties to the Convention should first  make every effort to clarify and resolve, through exchange of  information and consultations among themselves, any matter which may  cause doubt about compliance with the CWC. Under the provisions of that  Article, Russia would be ready to respond to the United Kingdom's  request within 10 days.
_
_Unfortunately,  the British side rejected that option and, instead of following the  existing norms of international law, chose to unscrupulously politicize  the issue.
_
_3.  British Prime Minister Theresa May suggested that a special Security  Council meeting to discuss the matter be held on 14 March 2018.   Suspecting that London would play dirty, Russia insisted on making the  Security Council's meeting open.__It  is incomprehensible what the British side was trying to achieve by  bringing the issue to the UNSC. This matter by no means falls within the  mandate of the UNSC. It is quite obvious that all discussions are  pointless until the OPCW gives its assessment of the Salisbury incident  (it is important to know whether a nerve agent was actually used; if it  was, how the likely origin of the chemicals was determined; what, and on  what basis, actions were taken with regard to the victims, etc.).
_
_4.  On 14 March 2018, British Prime Minister Theresa May, apparently having  come to senses, finally sent a letter to Director-General of the  Technical Secretariat of the OPCW Ahmet Üzümcü (circulated to all OPCW  Executive Council Member States on 15 March 2018) inviting the OPCW  Technical Secretariat “to independently verify the analysis” of the  British investigation into the Salisbury incident.
_
_As  indicated in the press release by the British Foreign Office of 18  March 2018, following the letter by Ms Theresa May, the UK’s Permanent  Representative to the OPCW invited experts of the OPCW Technical  Secretariat to visit the United Kingdom to carry out an independent  analysis of the findings of the British Defence Science and Technology  Laboratory at Porton Down in connection with the Salisbury incident. On  19 March 2018, OPCW experts arrived in the United Kingdom.__Russia  expects the OPCW to make an official detailed account of developments  around the ‘Skripal case’. We proceed from the understanding that the  OPCW Technical Secretariat shall conduct a full-fledged independent  investigation in accordance with all relevant provisions of the CWC.
_
_5. Russia has more and more questions both in legal and practical terms. And we intend to seek answers through the OPCW.__Russia  states that it has not used chemical weapons against Great Britain. We  suppose that the attack on the Skripals with toxic chemicals shall be  deemed a terrorist act. As Yulia Skripal, a Russian citizen, is among  the victims to the incident, we propose cooperation with the British  Side under Article IX of the CWC.

_
_We would like to ascertain the following issues.

Where,  how, and by whom were the samples collected from Sergei and Yulia  Skripal? How was it all documented? Who can certify that the data is  credible? Was the chain of custody up to all the OPCW requirements when  evidence was collected?_
_Which  methods (spectral analysis and others) were used by the British side to  identify, within such a remarkably short period of time, the type of  the substance used ("Novichok" according to the western classification)?  As far as we know, to do that, they must have had a standard sample of  such agent at their disposal.__And  how do these hasty actions correlate with Scotland Yard's official  statements that "the investigation is highly likely to take weeks or  even months" to arrive at conclusions?

What  information and medical effects led to a hasty decision to administer  antidotes to the aggrieved Skripals and the British policeman? Could  that hastiness lead to grave complications and further deterioration of  their health status?_
_Which antidotes exactly were administered? What tests had been conducted to make the decision to use these drugs?__How  can the delayed action of the nerve agent be explained, given that it  is a fast-acting substance by nature? The victims were allegedly  poisoned in a pizzeria (in a car, at the airport, at home, according to  other accounts). So what really happened? How come they were found in  some unidentified time on a bench in the street?
_
_We  need an explanation why it is Russia who was accused on the ‘Skripal  case’ without any grounds whatsoever, while works to develop the agent  codenamed "Novichok" in the West had been carried out by the United  Kingdom, the USA, Sweden and the Czech Republic. There are more than 200  open sources publications in the NATO countries, highlighting the  results that those countries achieved in the development of new toxic  agents of this type.

6.  Even from purely humanitarian perspective London’s action appears  simply barbaric. On 4 March 2018 (as British authorities themselves  claim) a nerve agent attack against Russian citizen Yulia Skripal was  committed in the territory of the United Kingdom.

Russian  Federation has demanded exhaustive information on the course of  investigation into the Salisbury incident involving a Russian citizen  (the Russian Embassy in London sent the relevant note verbale on  12 March 2018).

The  United Kingdom is breaching elementary rules of inter-State relations  and is still denying, without any explanation, Russian officials’  consular access to Yulia Skripal envisaged by the 1963 Vienna Convention  on Consular Relations. For more than two weeks now, we have not been  able to credibly ascertain what happened to our citizen and what  condition she is actually in.
_
_On  16 March, the Main Directorate for High-Priority Cases of the  Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation initiated a criminal  investigation into the attempted willful murder of Russian citizen Yulia  Skripal committed by dangerous means in the territory of the United  Kingdom.

The  investigation will be conducted in accordance with the Russian  legislation and the norms of international law. Highly qualified experts  will contribute to the investigation.

The  investigators stand ready to work together with the competent  authorities of the United Kingdom. We expect a cooperative approach of  the British side.
_
_7.  In the UN Security Council as well as in the OPCW and at other  international fora, the Russian Federation has been a consistent and  insistent proponent of thorough, comprehensive and professional  investigation of all crimes involving toxic chemicals, and of bringing  perpetrators to justice.
_
_We  are ready to engage in full-scale and open cooperation with the United  Kingdom in order to address any concerns whether in bilateral format or  within the OPCW and other international instruments, working within the  purview of international law.__As  a responsible member of the international community and a bona fide  State Party to the CWC Russia will never speak the language of  ultimatums or answer informal and word-of-mouth questions.
_
_The  Western countries’ action on the fabricated ‘Skripal case’ contravenes  the norms of international law and the general practice of inter-State  relations, as well as the common sense itself. Naturally, we run a  detailed record of all that, and when time comes, those guilty will  inevitably be brought to justice."

http://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/...ent/id/3134591

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_A tweeted "snappy video" from the UK Foreign Office_:

_Available here:_

https://twitter.com/foreignoffice/st...nds-answers%2F

_

----------


## OhOh

Tensions are high in the UK. At least the police protected the speaker, speaking as is accepted at speakers corner on the 10/3/18.

Such sentiments are stirred by officials allegedly elected to serve in the local regime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=PybfP4Onuv0

----------


## Begbie

^Nothing to do with the poisoning incident.

In summary

1. Two Russians are found unwell on a park bench in Salisbury. One was an unusually wealthy person with no visible means of support.

2. Hospital samples indicate the cause may have been poisoning by a rare nerve agent developed twenty years ago, the details of which are widely known.

3. The mediocrity that is the UK prime minister blames the Russian government as a distraction for the Brexit negotiations going tits up.

----------


## OhOh

No I agree, just an illustration of the public mood, on whatever subject is becoming I suggest, dangerous.

And yes it may be to distract from the UK regimes absolute failure to negotiate with the EU. Greece had similar problems read the ex-finance minister's book - it's online in English audio.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Ah the "Brexit" conspiracy theory.

My but the loons are out on this thread aren't they?

----------


## tomcat

> it may be to distract from the UK regimes absolute failure to negotiate with the EU. Greece had similar problems


...I see your usual red herrings have been upgraded to scarlet...

----------


## OhOh

> I see your usual red herrings have been upgraded to scarlet...


Not my allegation, look above at another poster.

----------


## tomcat

> Not my allegation


...your post...

----------


## Neo

> A conspiracy or the truth:
> 
>  *Four days to declare a Cold War*
> 
>  by     Thierry Meyssan 
> 
> 
> Four days to declare a Cold War, by Thierry Meyssan





> *Although it has the fourth largest army in the world, the United Kindom is unable to defy Russia without the support of allies. It therefore has to invent a casus belli to make its partners react and lead them to stand beside it.*


Not on any lists I've seen or heard of in anyones imagination, maybe Putin didn't tell them the Empire is over... but then I've never heard of this Kindom.. CIA/MI6/AREA 51 covert op perhaps.? 

FFS OhOh.. no wonder the chuckle brothers think your're a flake  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Neo

When it comes to allegations against Russia, the UK government cannot be trusted, so other nations would be wise to demand proof, Russia’s ambassador in London said, commenting on the Skripal poisoning saga.

_“Don’t take the words of the British for granted,”_ Alexander Yakovenko told journalists during a press conference at the Russian Embassy when asked what his advice to European nations would be on the unfolding UK-Russian conflict. _“I am quoting Ronald Reagan: trust but verify.”_

https://www.rt.com/uk/422016-skripal...ess-salisbury/


He has a point though... with the UK's track record you'd be a mug to believe they're telling you the whole truth.  ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

I don't know which is worse, the imbecile that wrote this or the imbecile that quoted it.




> *Although it has the fourth largest army in the world, the United Kindom*


They're not even fucking close.

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

From ruling the waves, to waiving the rules.

Oh how times have changed.

----------


## tomcat

...^plagiarizing is a sin...

----------


## misskit

*EU backs Britain in blaming Russia for spy attack*
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union leaders backed Britain on Thursday in blaming Moscow over a nerve agent attack on a former Russian spy in England, raising the possibility of additional retaliatory steps by European countries.


The solid show of support from the EU, at a time when Britain is grappling with its departure from the bloc, will boost Prime Minister Theresa May, who has been asking other nations to match her decision to expel Russians over the attack.



In what will form the basis of a formal statement later on Thursday, the chairman of the EU leaders’ summit, Donald Tusk, said on Twitter that the bloc “agrees with UK government that [it is] highly likely Russia is responsible for the Salisbury attack and that there is no other plausible explanation.”


May accused Russia of the first known offensive use of a nerve toxin in Europe since World War Two after Sergei Skripal, a former Russian double agent, and his daughter were found unconscious in the city of Salisbury on March 4.


The attack has sparked tit-for-tat retaliatory action, with May’s decision to expel 23 Russian “undeclared intelligence officials” followed by similar measures from Moscow, including the closure of Britain’s cultural center in Russia’s second city of St Petersburg.


Over a dinner of lamb, May called on EU leaders to work together to confront the challenge Russia presented, saying that the attack in Salisbury was “part of a wider pattern of behavior” by a country to thwart international norms.


“Russia staged a brazen and reckless attack against the United Kingdom,” May told reporters in Brussels. “It’s clear that the Russian threat does not respect borders and indeed the incident in Salisbury was a pattern of Russian aggression against Europe and its near neighbors.”



In the early days after the attack, May won the support of French President Emmanuel Macron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and U.S. President Donald Trump when they said they shared Britain’s assessment of Russian culpability.


But in Brussels, May had to convince more dovish states including Greece, Hungary and Bulgaria, that they should blame Russia squarely over the attack.


*RUSSIAN SPIES*Tusk’s statement means they had been convinced, opening the way for EU leaders to discuss future “coordinated action”. Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite said she was ready to expel Russian spies and diplomats said Poland could do so too.


Both had held off to see who else would join.


Slovakia’s new prime minister, Peter Pellegrini, said he wanted “constructive dialogue” with Russia despite the poisoning of the Skripals, who British authorities say have been critically ill since the attack by a Soviet-designed, military-grade nerve agent called Novichok.


May has also asked fellow European leaders to step up intelligence cooperation to start going after Russian spy networks, diplomats said.


“Britain says there are these networks that organize such things like Salisbury, that these networks exist across our borders and that it would be good to go after them together,” a senior EU diplomat said.


Another diplomat said: “There is movement among several willing states to do something together in reaction to Skripal.” The person added this would be done by states individually, so as not to press more reluctant EU member states too hard.


*BEEF UP DEFENCES*Russia has offered several different motives to explain the attack on the Skripals, who may have been left brain-damaged, and absolve Moscow of responsibility — something London labels disinformation and distraction.


On Thursday, Moscow’s ambassador to London, Vladimir Yakovenko, said that, had Novichok been used, the Skripals would have died and he rebuked British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson for comparing Russia’s hosting of the soccer World Cup this summer with Nazi Germany’s hosting of the Olympics in 1936.


In Moscow, President Vladimir Putin discussed Britain’s “unfriendly and provocative” policy at a session of the national security council, RIA news agency quoted the Kremlin as saying.


Ties between Russia and the West plummeted over Moscow’s 2014 annexation of Crimea and support for rebels in eastern Ukraine. Both have triggered rounds of EU sanctions.


A British official stressed that Britain was not seeking regime change in Russia, but that “Russia has shown itself as a strategic enemy, not a strategic partner”.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1GX3C9

----------


## Pragmatic

How come the policeman recovered?





> *Russian Novichok Developer Says There Is No Antidote so Sergei Skripal and His Daughter Will Die*

----------


## Klondyke

> How come the policeman recovered?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Russian Novichok Developer Says There Is No Antidote so Sergei Skripal and His Daughter Will Die


Or should it be understood that they are to die anyway?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> How come the policeman recovered?


Who said he "recovered"?




> The policeman who rushed to help poisoned Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter said his life will “never be the same” as he was released from hospital.
> Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey said he was now having to concentrate on rebuilding his life after suffering from the effects of the deadly nerve agent used to target Col Skripal, 66, and Yulia, 33, in Salisbury.
> The development came as a High Court judge gave doctors permission to take blood samples from the pair while they are still alive so that tests can be carried out by chemical weapons experts.
> The Skripals may have suffered permanent brain damage and their condition could “rapidly deteriorate,” tests have shown.
> As Bailey returned home following his ordeal, he said in a statement: “I recognise that ‘normal’ life for me will probably never be the same- and Sarah and I now need to focus on finding a new normal for us and for our children.”
> He added: “I have spent all my time since the incident really focusing on trying to get better and trying not to think about anything else.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...fe-will-never/

----------


## Pragmatic

> Who said he "recovered"?


They wouldn't have discharged him if he hadn't.





> Nick Bailey said he was now having to concentrate on rebuilding his life after suffering from the effects of the deadly nerve agent


 May be the only person to still be alive after being subjected to a 'nerve agent' that there is no antidote for. Unbelievable. Whack jobs etc etc.

----------


## AntRobertson

> "Knowing your post contains deliberate distortions is worse than the submission of mere inaccuracies because some errors only make readers angry while being misled destroys their trust." -Tomcat


"Wot 'e said, innit" - Me.

----------


## Neo

> A British official stressed that Britain was not seeking regime change in Russia


Meanwhile, at home... 



 ::chitown::

----------


## lom

> EU backs Britain in blaming Russia for spy attack


United we were, united we became again.  Time for a new Brexit referendum now?  :Biggrin:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> They wouldn't have discharged him if he hadn't.
> 
> 
>  May be the only person to still be alive after being subjected to a 'nerve agent' that there is no antidote for. Unbelievable. Whack jobs etc etc.


I think you're missing the point. I think the reason he said that _"'normal’ life for me will probably never be the same"_ is because doctors have told him what he can expect.




> Before former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia collapsed on a park bench in Salisbury on 4 March, the only other person confirmed to suffer the effects of novichok was a young Soviet chemical weapons scientist.
> “Circles appeared before my eyes: red and orange. A ringing in my ears, I caught my breath. And a sense of fear: like something was about to happen,” Andrei Zheleznyakov told the now-defunct newspaper Novoye Vremya, describing the 1987 weapons lab incident that exposed him to a nerve agent that would eventually kill him. “I sat down on a chair and told the guys: ‘It’s got me.’”
> By 1992, when the interview was published, the nerve agent had gutted Zheleznyakov’s central nervous system. Less than a year later he was dead, after battling cirrhosis, toxic hepatitis, nerve damage and epilepsy.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...soned-novichok

----------


## Pragmatic

> I think you're missing the point. I think the reason he said that "'normal’ life for me will probably never be the same" is because doctors have told him what he can expect.


"'normal’ life for me will probably never be the same" because his face/name has been plastered over the news worldwide. Not because he suffered lasting medical problems from nerve agent contamination. He can't even go down to Tesco's with the wife and kids now without getting stared, and pointed, at. Normal life for him and his family is now fcuked.

----------


## tomcat

> Normal life for him and his family is now fcuked.


...nonsense: once the stink of nerve gas fades and his twitching is within normal parameters, the worst that will happen is he'll be mistaken for a veteran...

----------


## bsnub

> Not because he suffered lasting medical problems from nerve agent contamination.


Of course not because being shunned socially is far worse than....




> By 1992, when the interview was published, the nerve agent had gutted  Zheleznyakov’s central nervous system. Less than a year later he was  dead, after battling cirrhosis, toxic hepatitis, nerve damage and  epilepsy.


SMH

----------


## OhOh

Grow your own dope. Plant a pom.

----------


## Begbie

A nerve agent that takes five years to kill it's victims. Very useful in a battlefield situation.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> A nerve agent that takes five years to kill it's victims. Very useful in a battlefield situation.


He was only exposed because of a hood malfunction and received the antidote almost immediately.




> The case of a Russian military scientist accidentally exposed to Novichok appears to show that even surviving the effects of the supertoxic nerve agent is horrific.
> Andrei Zheleznyakov was said to have been injected with an antidote almost immediately, but a friend said he still went from being a jovial, creative man to suffering chronic weakness, toxic hepatitis, epilepsy, severe depression and an inability to concentrate, before dying five years later.
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8253976.html

----------


## Pragmatic

> _Andrei Zheleznyakov was said to have been injected with an antidote almost immediately, but a friend said he still went from being a jovial, creative man to suffering “chronic weakness, toxic hepatitis, epilepsy, severe depression and an inability to concentrate”, before dying five years later._


 But nothing to indicate that the nerve agent was the cause of death.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> But nothing to indicate that the nerve agent was the cause of death.


_"__He died in 1993 of a brain seizure"._

----------


## Neo

Any proof that the Russians did it yet?

 ::chitown::

----------


## lom

> Any proof that the Russians did it yet?


Highly likely is the new proof for now..
Don't expect the proof finding committee to present a result "without any doubt" in the near future, they are all busy searching for Saddams weapon of mass destruction.

----------


## mcgoo

But you trust the russians eh?

----------


## tomcat

> eh?


...solid Canadian riposte...

----------


## bsnub

> But you trust the russians eh?


They are angels in heaven who can do no wrong as far as Neo and OhDoh are concerned.

----------


## tomcat

> Neo and OhDoh


...RT uber alles!...

----------


## tomcat

*...* :rofl: ...oops! Red for stepping on a sensitive RT nerve...*

Thread: Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance*
an argument? 24-03-2018 07:27 AM
Klondyke

----------


## lom

> But you trust the russians eh?


No, but that is quite irrelevant in this case.
Take action when there is proof, shutup when there only are unproven theories.

----------


## tomcat

> Take action when there is proof, shutup when there only is unproven theories.


...RT has openings for contributors...

----------


## lom

> ...RT has openings for contributors...


Probably, but that is quite irrelevant in this case.

----------


## tomcat

...^ah, I thought this was an audition thread...

----------


## Neo

> But you trust the russians eh?


The Russian government you mean? Not particularly, but sadly I trust the UK government even less. 
I'm British, and an expat. 

I have a very good friend who is Russian, one of my work colleagues. 
He's a very honest, generous and hard working man, liked by all.

He doesn't particularly like the Russian system either, but life today is far better than it was 10 years ago and infinitely better than it was prior to that, despite Western sanctions making life very difficult economically for the Russians. 

From his perspective Russia is not the aggressor, Russia wants closer economic and social ties to Europe, but sees the West and Nato repeatedly hostile toward Russian people and encroaching toward it's borders.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Russia wants closer economic and social ties to Europe, but sees the West and Nato repeatedly hostile toward Russian people and encroaching toward it's borders.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So he didn't invade Crimea then, he was just "wanting closer economic and social ties to Europe".

You little joker you.

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

> But you trust the russians eh?


The impartial OPCW,  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   are looking at the UK supplied "evidence" as we speak. Very similar to the terrorist supplied "evidence" in Syria. 

Which could equally dismissed as "contaminated", by the OPCW team or other interested parties.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Neo

> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> So he didn't invade Crimea then, he was just "wanting closer economic and social ties to Europe".
> 
> You little joker you.


you really are just totally fucking stupid aren't you... 

 ::chitown::

----------


## Klondyke

> ...RT has openings for contributors...


Any argument?

----------


## Klondyke

> From his perspective Russia is not the aggressor, Russia wants closer economic and social ties to Europe, but sees the West and Nato repeatedly hostile toward Russian people and encroaching toward it's borders.


This is not what 'arry wants to hear...

----------


## sabang

> So he didn't invade Crimea then


No, he didn't. But you already know that. Of course, if you can show me some (photoshopped) pictures of invading armies, battlefield casualties etc I might stoop to take a second look- but until then, the crushing result of the Crimean Parliamentary Referendum is proof enough.

Meanwhile, ain't newly Coup installed democratic Ukraine doing well.  :yerman:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The impartial OPCW,   are looking at the UK supplied "evidence" as we speak. Very similar to the terrorist supplied "evidence" in Syria. 
> 
> Which could equally dismissed as "contaminated", by the OPCW team or other interested parties.


It wasn't going to be long before the whackjobs started trying to discredit the OPCW was it?

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## harrybarracuda

> you really are just totally fucking stupid aren't you...


Perhaps you shouldn't always believe what your Russian boyfriend tells you. Remember he gets all this shit off state-controlled media.

You chump.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> No, he didn't. But you already know that. Of course, if you can show me some (photoshopped) pictures of invading armies, battlefield casualties etc I might stoop to take a second look- but until then, the crushing result of the Crimean Parliamentary Referendum is proof enough.
> 
> Meanwhile, ain't newly Coup installed democratic Ukraine doing well.


It's hard to say what planet you whackjobs come from where you don't think moving into a sovereign state with troops and military equipment and annexing their territory doesn't count as "invading".....

----------


## harrybarracuda

> This is not what 'arry wants to hear...


Oh Harry will listen to Neo's shite. At least he write posts that are comprehensible, unlike the garbled drivel you post most of the time.

----------


## Neo

> Perhaps you shouldn't always believe what your Russian boyfriend tells you. Remember he gets all this shit off state-controlled media.
> 
> You chump.



harry... it's so simple even snub could get it

he's Russian, he lives in Russia

----------


## harrybarracuda

> harry... it's so simple even snub could get it
> 
> he's Russian, he lives in Russia


And, like you, he watches and believes every word of RT.

 ::chitown::

----------


## HermantheGerman

> No, he didn't. But you already know that. Of course, if you can show me some (photoshopped) pictures of invading armies, battlefield casualties etc I might stoop to take a second look- but until then, the crushing result of the Crimean Parliamentary Referendum is proof enough.
> 
> Meanwhile, ain't newly Coup installed democratic Ukraine doing well.



I have noticed that people living in Thailand slowly but surely loose their marbles.  ::chitown:: 

*Putin annual broadcast to the Russian people on April 16, 2015: I can tell you outright and unequivocally that there are no Russian troops in Ukraine.

Then came a so called "election" and they popped up like mushroom....and made sure that the RIGHT people cast their vote.

Get out of the sun Sabang !!!!!!!!*

----------


## sabang

I think you desperately need more sun Hermione. I suppose Putin wasn't democratically re-elected either?
Anyway, changes nothing. 2014:-

_Crimea only became part of Ukraine when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave the peninsula to his native land in 1954. This hardly mattered until the Soviet Union broke up in 1991 and Crimea ended up in an independent Ukraine. Despite that, nearly 60 percent of its population of 2 million identify themselves as Russians.
_https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/e...yway-1.5327748

Following a peacefully held Crimean Referendum with a crushing result, that ensued from the illegal and violent Ukrainian coup d'état, it is now Russian again. Au revoir.

----------


## HermantheGerman

You forgot a bit of your article:




> *History* 
> 
>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Crimea  was absorbed into the Russian empire along with most of ethnic  Ukrainian territory by Catherine the Great in the 18th century.


so by your logic, it was a mistake by the Ukraine to not have done what Russians do best:




> The Tatars were deported en masse by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin


Should have deported al those Russians while they had a chance.  ::chitown:: 


Why is there so much LOVE for Russians by the former U.S.S.R. States or East Block countries ?
Tough one to answer  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## HermantheGerman

> I suppose Putin wasn't democratically re-elected either?


Ask Xi Jinping  :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

> moving into a sovereign state with troops and military equipment and annexing their territory doesn't count as "invading"


The Russian military were already in Crimea, as part of agreements between two sovereign countries, prior to any democratic election was held in Crimea. 

Allegedly these define the arrangement:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partit...lack_Sea_Fleet

The 1997 Black Sea Fleet Agreement Between Russia and Ukraine | ERIC POSNER

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact

No Russians "annexed" Ukrainian territory. It was ceded to Russia in 1792 by the Ottoman empire.

_"__The Treaty of Jassy, signed at Jassy (Iași) in Moldavia (presently in Romania), was a pact between the Russian and Ottoman Empires ending the Russo-Turkish War of 1787–92 and confirming Russia's increasing dominance in the Black Sea.[1]
_*The treaty was signed on 9 January 1792 by Grand Vizier Koca Yusuf Pasha and Prince Bezborodko (who had succeeded Prince Potemkin as the head of the Russian delegation when Potemkin died). The Treaty of Jassy formally recognized the Russian Empire's annexation of the Crimean Khanate via the Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca of 1783[2] and transferred Yedisan (the territory between Dniester and Bug rivers) to Russia making the Dniester the Russo-Turkish frontier in Europe, and leaving the Asiatic frontier (Kuban River) unchanged."

*


> Putin annual broadcast to the Russian  people on April 16, 2015: “I can tell you outright and unequivocally  that there are no Russian troops in Ukraine.”


Even the Ukrainian Deputy Foreign minister call the Eastern Ukrainians, currently fighting as "pro-Russian forces", not Russian. he of all people should know.

_"Providing details about the ongoing Minsk process to restore peace in  eastern Ukraine, Prystaiko said_ *that the currently pro-Russian forces* _ have not withdrawn and that this situation has not allowed them to move  further in their political dialogue, stalling the settlement of the  crisis. However, Prystaiko did underline the significance of the Minsk  agreement. ''Over the last two and a half years, we have been working on  an agreement called "the Minsk Agreement," and this is the only  agreement. This agreement is not perfect, and in Ukraine, we believe  that it's not fair that this it is the only legal mechanism to stop  aggression and to stop the advancement of troops,'' he said. ''Now, we  are in a very long negotiation period. In a couple of days, I'll be  going to Berlin for another round of negotiations with the deputy  ministers of foreign affairs, and this is a special mechanism  established by the leaders of Minsk,'' Prystaiko added. ''In addition,  all the four Minsk leaders will also gather soon, so all of these  political initiatives should lead to greater success,'' he concluded.__"

https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/...crimean-tatars
_

Care to share your proof of any Russain invasion.

----------


## OhOh

Some may wish to read this article regarding the illegal Ukrainian annexation of the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, established in 1991.

*How Ukraine Annexed Crimea. A Frank Conversation with Nikki Haley

*


_"The  speech by the new US permanent representative to the UN Security  Council, Nikki Haley, at a Security Council meeting on 3 February backed  up the idea that the foreign policies of two American administrations –  the previous one and the current one – will be continued. Haley said  exactly the same as Samantha Power before her: «Our Crimea-related  sanctions will remain in place until Russia returns control of the  peninsula to Ukraine».

__     The  White House supported Haley’s statement on the need for Crimea to be  returned to Ukraine, and the White House Press Secretary, Sean Spicer,  stated during a briefing that: «With respect to the sanctions, I think  Ambassador Haley made it very clear of our concern with Russia’s  occupation of Crimea. I think she spoke very forcefully and clearly on  that».


__     It  is interesting that Mrs Haley was speaking about the territory of  Crimea rather than the people. I wonder how this American imagines the  «return» of the Crimean Peninsula to Ukraine – with the people or  without them? It’s a pity that this question has remained unanswered.

_
_     Do  the Crimean people regard themselves as Ukrainian? And does Nikki Haley  know the answer to this most important question? It is unlikely that  the US ambassador to the UN wants to move the people out of Crimea so  that she can give the peninsula back to Ukraine. Especially as she would  have to move not only the living, but also the dead, since the  ‘Ukrainian’ history of Crimea is very short, around a quarter of a  century. It is surprising that the citizen of a country whose  constitution begins with the words «We the people of the United  States...» is doing everything to avoid a conversation at the level of  «We the people of Crimea...» But everything really does look different  from that position........"

https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...kki-haley.html
_
It may "clarify" the situation for some.

----------


## OhOh

A new insight to the health and care of two patients has been discused in a UK courtroom. The discussion necessary due to neither of the two are able to give consent to further investigations which may be termed "non-clinical" i.e. not medically required but may assit any investigation into their attack. In such circumstances in the UK various laws come into play regarding medical issues. In this case the Mental  Capacity  Act  2005.

A very long High Court Judgement dated 22/3/18 has been issued.

Available here:

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-cont...r-20180322.pdf

Two points:

1. The Russian have accused the UK authorities of blocking any attempt by a Russian Embassy representative in the UK, from visiting the Russian female citizen. There doesn't appear to be any mention of any requests received from the Embassy to the hospital. As the court acts instead of any guidance from family members, or those who "interested in his welfare" any requests from the Russian Embassy to visit the patient, could be considered as "interested in her welfare".

2. The judge appears to be very clear and thoughtful of every possibility. not only in the application of the relevant law, but equally sound in his call for clarity, responsibilities and consequences of the action he is authorising.

Good for him.

Some points from his judgement.

From Section 17 v) h)

_"The hospital has not been approached by anyone known to the patients to enquire of their welfare."_ 

From Section 23 7)

_"He must take into account, if it is practicable and appropriate to consult them, the views of 
(a)anyone named by the person as someone to be consulted on the matter in question or on matters of that kind,
(b)anyone engaged in caring for the person orinterested in his welfare,"

_[Either the Russians are lying about trying to visit the Russian  citizen and showing an "interest in her welfare", they sent a spy to check out the hospital only to find thy had been moved, elsewhere, or the hospital representative, (ZZ treating Consultant) has lied about the Embassy requesting a visit to wherever the patients are being held, to the judge in their evidence]

2.  From Section 14 ii) d)

_"In  addition  the  other  factors  that  Mr  Skripal  or  Ms  Skripal  would  be likely to consider if he or she were able to would include the effects of their  decision  on  others  and  their  duties  as  responsible  citizens.  In particular  they  would  be  likely  to  want  to  support  the  work  of  the international   body   set   up   by   international   law   knowing   that   its processes are unimpeachable, it is entirely independent, that the results of   its   enquiry   would   potentially   be   beneficial   to   the   criminal investigation,  confirming the  nature  of  the  attack  and  the  substance used;  assistance  in  bringing  to  justice  those  responsible;  identifying those who carried out the attack.  They would want to support the UK Government  in  taking  steps  on  the  international  plane  to  hold  those responsible to account."_ 

From section 30:

_............."Their  enquiry  can  be  expected  to  be  entirely  objective  and  independent. The results of their enquiry will likely hold very considerable weight in any forum.  Their enquiry  is  therefore  likely  to  produce  the  most  robust,  objective,  independent  and reliable material which will inform any determination of what happened to Mr Skripal and  Ms  Skripal. That  might  simply  confirm  the  current  conclusions,  it  might elaborate  or  clarify  them,  it  might  reach  a  different  conclusion.  Although  the Secretary  of  State  does  not  believe  the latter prospect to  be  likely  given  her confidence in Porton Down’s findings I do not think the possibility can be ignored –and in particular I do not think an individual faced with supporting or not supporting such an inquiry would ignore that possibility at this stage."

_From section 31:_

............" accept  that  Mr Skripal  and  Ms Skripal’s decision would be influenced by these values and beliefs and  that  the  influence  would  be  in  favour  of  consenting  to  the  taking and  testing of samples and disclosure of notes. I am satisfied that an inquiry such as the OPCW will conduct  which might verify Porton Down’s conclusion, might elaborate or clarify them  or  might  reach  a  different  conclusion  is  something  they  would  wish  be conducted and they would want to assist in that by providing samples. 

From section 35:
.........."I accept ZZ’s point that disclosure of medical records should only go so far as is necessary and this will cover disclosure  from  the  period  4  March  2018 and  for  the specific information  that  the OPCW has sought. If it is sought I consider that it is in their best interests that OPCW is provided with copies  of the relevant records not merely having sight of them. The processes which are in place for maintaining the confidentiality of such records (along with the integrity of the samples) which are evidenced satisfy me that copies could be provided subject to their destruction or return at the conclusion of the enquiry._

From section 36: 
..........._."  my  judgment  falls  very clearly in favour of the taking of the samples, their submission for analysis by OPCW and the disclosure of the medical notes to aid that process. In so far as it is necessary it  is  also  lawful  and  in  their  best  interests  that  the  existing  samples  are  provided  to OPCW for further testing."_

From section 37:
_I  will  therefore  make  Declarations  pursuant  to  section  15 Mental  Capacity  Act  2005 and Orders pursuant to section 16 Mental Capacity Act 2005 that:

i) Mr  Skripal  lacks  capacity  to  make  a  decision  as  to  the  provision  of  blood samples, the testing of blood samples and disclosure of medical notes

ii) Ms  Skripal lacks  capacity  to  make  a  decision  as  to  the  provision  of  blood samples, the testing of blood samples and disclosure of medical notes

iii) That it is lawful for Salisbury NHS Trust to take blood samples for provision to OPCW and to provide copies of medical notes to OPCW

__iv) That it is in the best interests of Mr Skripal and Ms Skripal for the samples to be taken, tested and the notes provided

 These are incorporated in the order I approved yesterday._

----------


## Neverna

^ Haven't all the Russian Embassy staff been banished from the UK? Hard to visit the hospital in Salsibury from Moscow.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Yes, you really want GRU agents interfering with your investigation into, er, GRU agents eh?


You really are rather gormless OhOh.

First you insisted the British should involve the OPCW. Then when they did that, you claimed the OPCW can't be trusted.

You just can't keep track of all your bullshit, can you?

 :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

> Yes, you really want GRU agents interfering with your investigation into, er, GRU agents eh?


"you really want MI5/6 agents interfering with your investigation into, er, MI5/6 agents eh?"

----------


## harrybarracuda

> "you really want MI5/6 agents interfering with your investigation into, er, MI5/6 agents eh?"


Awww look at little Klondkye trying to copy OhOh.

How cute.

----------


## Klondyke

> Awww look at little Klondkye trying to copy OhOh.
> 
> How cute.


Pity that 'arry cannot understand my poor English, so he does not get the clue...

----------


## OhOh

> Haven't all the Russian Embassy staff been banished from the UK?


No, just the alleged spies.  :Smile: 




> First you insisted the British should involve the OPCW. Then when they did that, you claimed the OPCW can't be trusted.


One wonders why the UK government were forced to accept the Russian suggestion to utilise the OPCW preocedures, rather than expecting all to believe the "highly likely" lies of the UK government ministers.

OPCW not trusted? You of course have facts, that relate to this thread, to back up your assertion?




> Pity that 'arry cannot understand my poor English


Nothing wrong with your English skills, as opposed to many here.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> OPCW not trusted? You of course have facts, that relate to this thread, to back up your assertion?


It was your assertion, numbnuts. Blimey, you really can't keep track of all the nonsense you come out with, can you?




> _The impartial OPCW,  are looking at the UK supplied "evidence" as we speak. Very similar to the terrorist supplied "evidence" in Syria. 
> 
> Which could equally dismissed as "contaminated", by the OPCW team or other interested parties.
> 
> _






> Nothing wrong with your English skills, as opposed to many here.


 :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

Nothing wrong with the OPCW procedures, accept the provenance was suspect and thus inadmissible, in the opinion of some.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Nothing wrong with the OPCW procedures, accept the provenance was suspect and thus inadmissible, in the opinion of some.


Waffle waffle.

----------


## tomcat

> in the opinion of some


...echo of Trump's "I hear people say..."...

----------


## Klondyke

*Litvinenko's Father Gives Name of His Son's Murderer*
20.3.2018

*Could you imagine the father of the late ex-Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko hugging Andrey Lugovoy, whom the British have accused of poisoning his son? This actually happened in front of the eyes of millions of Russian television viewers. A new twist in the story.

*
During the primetime program "Pust govoryat" ("Let people talk") on First channel, the major Russian federal television channel, Valter Litvinenko, father to Alexander, who was fatally poisoned in London 12 years ago, came up to Andrey Lugovoy, embraced him and went on to detail how he watched his son die.

Litvinenkos father is certain that his son was poisoned by biochemist Alexander Goldfarb, who was part of the inner circle of Russian tycoon Boris Berezovsky, who was found dead in London in 2013. According to Valter Litvinenko, in 2000 Goldfarb helped the fugitive Russian spy Litvinenko to make his way from Turkey to Great Britain, where he was granted political asylum.

He represented Litvinenkos interests during the final weeks of his life and upon his death, he read out his deathbed letter to the media. Valter Litvinenko said that Akhmed Zakaev, who was in London at that time, called Goldfarb a CIA agent.

According to Valter Litvinenko, his son had been poisoned several times even while he was in hospital. Anyone could enter the hospital, added Litvinenkos father, noting that at first, his son had been diagnosed with food poisoning, then  thallium exposure, and subsequently there emerged reports on the use of polonium 210.

"I am sure that no one in the world, neither CNN, nor BBC would ask the First channel for the permission to show Litvinenkos fathers interview. We were lost for words, all of us, including Dmitry Borisov [the anchorman]. He didnt expect to hear that kind of confession," said journalist Andrei Karaulov, who also partook in the program.

Valter Litvinenko also noted that he had never been admitted to the files on his sons death, he said he had been denied access to the autopsy act. 

"Its now clear why all the documents on the Litvinenko case are highly classified in London for the next 100 years. It was, by the way, carried out by Theresa May. And nobody asked her why on earth she had to classify something that had been on everyones lips," the journalist indignantly remarked. He thinks that had Valter Litvinenko confessed earlier, the Skripals wouldnt have been poisoned.

Litvinenko was poisoned in early November 2006 and died later that month.  Three weeks earlier, he reportedly had tea with his ex-colleagues Dmitry Kovtun and Andrei Lugovoy in downtown London.

Shortly after his death, UK authorities claimed that Litvinenko had been poisoned by his former coworkers, who made use of the radioactive isotope polonium-210 for this purpose. A public inquiry into Litvinenko's death was launched by the UK government in July 2014.

Lugovoy earlier said that he passed a polygraph test conducted by British experts, which proved he was innocent.

The Russian Foreign Ministry slammed the UK inquiry as politicized, saying it was not transparent enough. Russia  believed it would negatively affect Moscow-London ties.

https://sputniknews.com/russia/20180...-hug-murderer/


(here is the video of the said Russian TV program -CC in Russian - Litvinenko's father (desiding in Italy) comes with brother in min. 38, sits down next to Andrei Lugovoi)

----------


## harrybarracuda

So some bloke helped his son escape all the way to the UK via Turkey.... and then killed him.

Yeah, that makes sense.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Klondyke

^not so simple. He arrived to London in 2000 and till he died in 2006, it had happened a lot, beside the "consulting" MI6...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^not so simple. He arrived to London in 2000 and till he died in 2006, it had happened a lot, beside the "consulting" MI6...


It's extremely simple you moron. It's bullshit.

----------


## Klondyke

With Skripals it's screeching (screech, squeak, creak = skripal in Russian): 4 hours GPS blackout 

That day for 4 hours in the morning, they switched off their mobiles. 

(cannot find it on RT, can we believe UK's media?)

----------


## OhOh

There does seem to be a "connection" between Mr  Skripal  (ex UK Spy)_ ->_ Pablo Miller (MI6 agent in Moscow, now living in Salisbury) -> Christopher Steele (MI6 agent in Moscow, Fusion member/Cambridge Analytica/Strategic Communication Laboratories (SCL Group) and the concocted Trump dossier. Now living in salisbury) -> John Scarlet (MI6 agent responsible for sexing up the WMD Iraqi war dossier) -> Blundering Boris

Bella Caledonia it's time to get above ourselves

What is the CID seargent doing in Salisbury when he lives 30 miles away and not a local   Policeman. When was he "infected", where was he "Infected". How was he cured and with what drug. What is his background?

What was blundering Boris doing at SCL group last November.

What information did Mr. Skripal give to Mr. Steele so that he might sexup his dossier presented to the ameristani democrat party?

Was Mr. Skripal poisoned to shut him up by MI6/UK Government?

When will the cctv from Salisbury made available to the press.

Where are the Skripals being treated?

----------


## Wilsonandson

He's got a point, our Peter!

----------


## Wilsonandson

Was it an inside job?

----------


## Cujo

An interesting development. 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...skripal-attack

I don't think such a serious response would be made by so many countries without compelling reason. Even if it's not public knowledge.

----------


## harrybarracuda

While our resident tinfoil hat brigade scramble to blame it on everyone else, the rest of the world takes action against the real culprit.




> WORLD NEWSMARCH 26, 2018 / 4:04 PM / UPDATED 16 MINUTES AGO
> 
> 
> *U.S. and EU expel scores of Russian diplomats in response to UK nerve attack*
> 
> Michael Holden, Roberta Rampton
> 6 MIN READ
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Cujo

Wow, having read back over the last page or two of conspiracy nutjob theories the ruskies must be laughing their arses off. 
Every crazy plot and conspiracy except. Maybe it was the Russians. 
FFS.

----------


## Neverna

> An interesting development. 
> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...skripal-attack
> 
> I don't think such a serious response would be made by so many countries without compelling reason. Even if it's not public knowledge.


That same argument was put forward on the Iraq WMD issue.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That same argument was put forward on the Iraq WMD issue.


No it wasn't. Most of them were paid, either in money or in kind.

It took a lot of negotiation just to put together a "coalition".

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Wow, having read back over the last page or two of conspiracy nutjob theories the ruskies must be laughing their arses off. 
> Every crazy plot and conspiracy except. Maybe it was the Russians. 
> FFS.


Vlad must be furious that his little embassy shindig the other week failed miserably.

In fact his foreign ministry must be frantically summoning ambassadors as we speak.

----------


## Neverna

> That same argument was put forward on the Iraq WMD issue.





> No it wasn't. Most of them were paid, either in money or in kind.
> 
> It took a lot of negotiation just to put together a "coalition".


Eh? I'm talking about the: "they must know something even if it's not public knowledge" argument.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Eh? I'm talking about the: "they must know something even if it's not public knowledge" argument.


But they did know something. They're the ones that sold him all the shit.

 :Smile:

----------


## Neverna

> But they did know something. They're the ones that sold him all the shit.


 :gw bush:

----------


## Chittychangchang

Russia is going to become polarised over this.

Nutters have been taking the piss for too long.

Need to expell them from Thailand now for a proper revolution. 

Back to the cold war days...

----------


## tomcat

...from the BBC:

One must assume that many or most of the Russian diplomats designated for expulsion are intelligence operatives. Thus the cumulative impact on Russia's overseas intelligence activities could be considerable.
Russia must now ponder what actions it will take in response. But President Putin could never have imagined there would be this degree of solidarity.
Russia perceived Britain as weak and increasingly isolated; the EU as distracted; and the Trump administration as off-balance and compromised by President Trump's own curious unwillingness to castigate Moscow.
Mr Putin may have made a serious mistake. This is in many ways a remarkable display of concerted European action, though he may prefer to note that by no means all members of the EU have participated.


​

----------


## Klondyke

> One must assume that many or most of the Russian diplomats designated for expulsion are intelligence operatives.


And that in contrast to the "diplomats" of other countries...

----------


## Klondyke

Let's not forget that all the actions are against the Russian govt, not the Russian people - as May has pointed out.  
How heart-warming, it's more than the good Bliar had done: sacrificed lives (not his) of his own subjects to liberate the Iraqi people from dictator (their lives not counted)...

----------


## tomcat

...^red herrings from your bottomless basket: Jesus had nothing on you...

----------


## misskit

*US and 23 other countries join mass expulsion of Russian spies to 'dismantle' Putin espionage network*https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/26/donald-trump-expels-60-russian-diplomats-response-salisbury/

----------


## OhOh

> I don't think





> I don't think


Try and consider the weapons ameristan and UK have to pressurise weaker countries and what other items are being decided worldwide currently. Add them to the equation and you might, just, be aware of the pressure inside the pressure cooker, currently.




> the rest of the world takes action


_"The US has ordered the expulsion of 60 Russian officials who  Washington says are spies, including a dozen based at the United  Nations, and told Moscow to shut down its consulate in Seattle, which  would end Russian diplomatic representation on the west coast.

 The EU members Germany, France and Poland are each to expel four  Russian diplomats with intelligence agency backgrounds. Lithuania and  the Czech Republic said they would expel three, and Denmark, Italy and  the Netherlands two each. Estonia, Latvia, Croatia, Finland, Hungary,  Sweden and Romania each expelled one Russian. Iceland announced it would  not be sending officials to the World Cup in Russia.

Ukraine, which is not an EU member, is to expel 13 Russian diplomats,  while Albania, an EU candidate member, ordered the departure of two  Russians from the embassy in Tirana. Macedonia, another EU candidate,  expelled one Russian official. 

 Canada announced it was expelling four diplomatic staff serving in  Ottawa and Montreal who the Canadian government said were spies. A  pending application from Moscow for three more diplomatic posts in  Canada is being denied.

 Australia confirmed that it too would expel two Russian diplomats who  were in the country as undeclared intelligence officers, giving them  seven days to leave."_

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/26/four-eu-states-set-to-expel-russian-diplomats-over-skripal-attack

The "rest of the world" ? Another "sexed up" statement without any essence of truth or facts to substantiate it.

206 countries in the world, from some sources, of which 22 have sent Russian diplomats home. Less than 10%. Get a grip 'arry




> In fact his foreign ministry must be frantically summoning ambassadors as we speak.


Already had the meeting, along with many from foreign countries. You must have missed the report.




> Russia is going to become polarised over this.


Russia has just shown how "polarised" it is 75+ % backed The LORD. You must have missed the Russian election 9 days ago.




> President Putin could never have imagined


Sure. :Smile: 




> Britain as weak and increasingly isolate


As well as incapable of holding any investigation that would be accepted, worlwide.




> This is in many ways a remarkable display of concerted European action, though he may prefer to note that by no means all members of the EU have participated.


Onesies and twosies from the most EU countries, that participated. Oh dear I'm sure Russian citizens and their Government are shaking in fear.




> red herrings


UK leaders lie, accept it. UK politicians toe the whips line, accept it, UK military kills 100,000s in illegal wars, accept it. The shit sticks.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Already had the meeting, along with many from foreign countries. You must have missed the report.


I'm not talking about his little propaganda garden party. That clearly had little effect.

I'm talking about his response to the Diplomatic world telling him to fuck off.

Try and keep up.

----------


## Klondyke

After all, when so many friendly states ("international community"?) have expressed such "solidarity", no need to investigate any longer, it's enough "highly likely", isn't it?  
The case closed...

----------


## OhOh

> I'm talking about his response to the Diplomatic world telling him to fuck off.
> 
> Try and keep up.


To keep the illusion in perspective and possibly for clarity:

_The following countries have announced the expulsion of Russian diplomats,
_

_Poland — 4
__Lithuania — 3
__Latvia — 1
__The Netherlands — 2
__Ukraine — 13__France — 4__Denmark — 2
__The Czech Republic — 3
__Estonia — 1__Germany — 4__Italy — 2__Romania — 1
__Finland — 1__Croatia — 1__Sweden — 1__Albania — 2__Spain — 2
__Norway — 1
__Hungary — 1__The US — 60__Canada — 4__Hungary — 1__Macedonia — 1
__Australia — 2_
_
Countries of the World, allegedly on this list there are 256 , some are contested:

__1
_
_ Afghanistan 
_
_2
_
_ Akrotiri_ 
_3_
_ Albania_ 
_4
_
_ Algeria_ 
_5_
_ American Samoa_ 
_6_
_ Andorra 
_
_7_
_ Angola_ 
_8_
_ Anguilla_ 
_9_
_ Antarctica 
_
_10
_
_ Antigua and Barbuda_ 
_11_
_ Argentina_ 
_12
_
_ Armenia 
_
_13_
_ Aruba_ 
_14_
_ Ashmore and Cartier Islands 
_
_15_
_ Australia 
_
_16_
_ Austria_ 
_17
_
_ Azerbaijan 
_
_18_
_ Bahamas, The_ 
_19
_
_ Bahrain_ 
_20_
_ Bangladesh_ 
_21
_
_ Barbados 
_
_22_
_ Bassas da India_ 
_23
_
_ Belarus 
_
_24_
_ Belgium_ 
_25
_
_ Belize 
_
_26_
_ Benin_ 
_27
_
_ Bermuda 
_
_28_
_ Bhutan_ 
_29
_
_ Bolivia 
_
_30_
_ Bosnia and Herzegovina_ 
_31
_
_ Botswana 
_
_32_
_ Bouvet Island_ 
_33
_
_ Brazil 
_
_34_
_ British Indian Ocean Territory 
_
_35
_
_ British Virgin Islands_ 
_36_
_ Brunei 
_
_37_
_ Bulgaria_ 
_38_
_ Burkina Faso 
_
_39
_
_ Burma_ 
_40_
_ Burundi 
_
_41
_
_ Cambodia_ 
_42_
_ Cameroon_ 
_43
_
_ Canada 
_
_44_
_ Cape Verde 
_
_45
_
_ Cayman Islands_ 
_46_
_ Central African Republic_ 
_47
_
_ Chad 
_
_48_
_ Chile_ 
_49
_
_ China 
_
_50_
_ Christmas Island_ 
_51
_
_ Clipperton Island_ 
_52_
_ Cocos (Keeling) Islands_ 
_53
_
_ Colombia 
_
_54_
_ Comoros_ 
_55
_
_ Congo, Democratic Republic of the 
_
_56_
_ Congo, Republic of the_ 
_57_
_ Cook Islands 
_
_58
_
_ Coral Sea Islands_ 
_59_
_ Costa Rica_ 
_60
_
_ Cote d'Ivoire 
_
_61_
_ Croatia_ 
_62_
_ Cuba 
_
_63
_
_ Cyprus_ 
_64_
_ Czech Republic 
_
_65
_
_ Denmark_ 
_66_
_ Dhekelia_ 
_67
_
_ Djibouti 
_
_68_
_ Dominica_ 
_69
_
_ Dominican Republic 
_
_70_
_ Ecuador_ 
_71
_
_ Egypt 
_
_72_
_ El Salvador_ 
_73
_
_ Equatorial Guinea 
_
_74_
_ Eritrea_ 
_75_
_ Estonia_ 
_76_
_ Ethiopia 
_
_77
_
_ Europa Island_ 
_78_
_ Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas)_ 
_79_
_ Faroe Islands 
_
_80_
_ Fiji_ 
_81_
_ Finland 
_
_82
_
_ France_ 
_83_
_ French Guiana_ 
_84
_
_ French Polynesia_ 
_85_
_ French Southern and Antarctic Lands_ 
_86_
_ Gabon 
_
_87
_
_ Gambia, The_ 
_88_
_ Gaza Strip_ 
_89_
_ Georgia 
_
_90
_
_ Germany_ 
_91_
_ Ghana_ 
_92_
_ Gibraltar 
_
_93
_
_ Glorioso Islands_ 
_94_
_ Greece_ 
_95_
_ Greenland 
_
_96
_
_ Grenada_ 
_97_
_ Guadeloupe_ 
_98_
_ Guam 
_
_99
_
_ Guatemala_ 
_100_
_ Guernsey_ 
_101
_
_ Guinea 
_
_102_
_ Guinea-Bissau_ 
_103_
_ Guyana 
_
_104
_
_ Haiti_ 
_105_
_ Heard Island and McDonald Islands_ 
_106
_
_ Holy See (Vatican City) 
_
_107_
_ Honduras_ 
_108_
_ Hong Kong_ 
_109
_
_ Hungary 
_
_110_
_ Iceland_ 
_111_
_ India_ 
_112
_
_ Indonesia 
_
_113_
_ Iran_ 
_114_
_ Iraq 
_
_115_
_ Ireland_ 
_116_
_ Isle of Man_ 
_117
_
_ Israel 
_
_118_
_ Italy_ 
_119_
_ Jamaica_ 
_120
_
_ Jan Mayen 
_
_121_
_ Japan_ 
_122_
_ Jersey_ 
_123
_
_ Jordan 
_
_124_
_ Juan de Nova Island_ 
_125_
_ Kazakhstan 
_
_126
_
_ Kenya_ 
_127_
_ Kiribati_ 
_128_
_ Korea, North 
_
_129
_
_ Korea, South_ 
_130_
_ Kuwait_ 
_131_
_ Kyrgyzstan 
_
_132
_
_ Laos_ 
_133_
_ Latvia_ 
_134_
_ Lebanon_ 

_135
_
_ Lesotho 
_
_136_
_ Liberia_ 
_137_
_ Libya_ 
_138
_
_ Liechtenstein 
_
_139_
_ Lithuania_ 
_140_
_ Luxembourg_ 
_141_
_ Macau 
_
_142
_
_ Macedonia_ 
_143_
_ Madagascar_ 
_144_
_ Malawi 
_
_145
_
_ Malaysia_ 
_146_
_ Maldives_ 
_147_
_ Mali 
_
_148
_
_ Malta_ 
_149_
_ Marshall Islands_ 
_150
_
_ Martinique 
_
_151_
_ Mauritania_ 
_152_
_ Mauritius_ 
_153
_
_ Mayotte 
_
_154_
_ Mexico_ 
_155_
_ Micronesia, Federated States of 
_
_156
_
_ Moldova_ 
_157_
_ Monaco_ 
_158
_
_ Mongolia 
_
_159_
_ Montserrat_ 
_160_
_ Morocco_ 
_161
_
_ Mozambique 
_
_162_
_ Namibia_ 
_163_
_ Nauru 
_
_164
_
_ Navassa Island_ 
_165_
_ Nepal_ 
_166
_
_ Netherlands 
_
_167_
_ Netherlands Antilles_ 
_168_
_ New Caledonia 
_
_169
_
_ New Zealand_ 
_170_
_ Nicaragua_ 
_171
_
_ Niger 
_
_172_
_ Nigeria_ 
_173_
_ Niue 
_
_174_
_ Norfolk Island_ 
_175_
_ Northern Mariana Islands_ 
_176
_
_ Norway 
_
_177_
_ Oman_ 
_178_
_ Pakistan_ 
_179
_
_ Palau 
_
_180_
_ Panama_ 
_181_
_ Papua New Guinea_ 
_182
_
_ Paracel Islands 
_
_183_
_ Paraguay_ 
_184_
_ Peru_ 
_185
_
_ Philippines 
_
_186_
_ Pitcairn Islands_ 
_187_
_ Poland 
_
_188
_
_ Portugal_ 
_189_
_ Puerto Rico_ 
_190_
_ Qatar 
_
_191
_
_ Reunion_ 
_192_
_ Romania_ 
_193
_
_ Russia 
_
_194_
_ Rwanda_ 
_195_
_ Saint Helena_ 
_196
_
_ Saint Kitts and Nevis 
_
_197_
_ Saint Lucia_ 
_198_
_ Saint Pierre and Miquelon_ 
_199
_
_ Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 
_
_200_
_ Samoa_ 
_201_
_ San Marino 
_
_202_
_ Sao Tome and Principe_ 
_203_
_ Saudi Arabia_ 
_204
_
_ Senegal 
_
_205_
_ Serbia and Montenegro_ 
_206_
_ Seychelles_ 
_207
_
_ Sierra Leone 
_
_208_
_ Singapore_ 
_209_
_ Slovakia_ 
_210
_
_ Slovenia 
_
_211_
_ Solomon Islands_ 
_212_
_ Somalia_ 
_213
_
_ South Africa 
_
_214_
_ South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands_ 
_215_
_ Spain_ 
_216
_
_ Spratly Islands 
_
_217_
_ Sri Lanka_ 
_218_
_ Sudan_ 
_219
_
_ Suriname 
_
_220_
_ Svalbard_ 
_221_
_ Swaziland_ 
_222
_
_ Sweden 
_
_223_
_ Switzerland_ 
_224_
_ Syria_ 
_225
_
_ Taiwan 
_
_226_
_ Tajikistan_ 
_227_
_ Tanzania_ 
_228
_
_ Thailand 
_
_229_
_ Timor-Leste_ 
_230_
_ Togo_ 
_231
_
_ Tokelau 
_
_232_
_ Tonga_ 
_233_
_ Trinidad and Tobago 
_
_234_
_ Tromelin Island_ 
_235_
_ Tunisia_ 
_236
_
_ Turkey 
_
_237_
_ Turkmenistan_ 
_238_
_ Turks and Caicos Islands_ 
_239
_
_ Tuvalu 
_
_240_
_ Uganda_ 
_241_
_ Ukraine 
_
_242_
_ United Arab Emirates_ 
_243_
_ United Kingdom_ 
_244
_
_ United States 
_
_245_
_ Uruguay_ 
_246_
_ Uzbekistan_ 
_247
_
_ Vanuatu_ 
_248_
_ Venezuela_ 
_249_
_ Vietnam 
_
_250_
_ Virgin Islands_ 
_251
_
_ Wake Island 
_
_252
_
_ Wallis and Futuna 
_
_253_
_ West Bank 
_
_254
_
_ Western Sahara_ 
_255_
_ Yemen 
_
_256_
_ Zambia 
_
_257
_
_Zimbabwe_


 http://www.listofcountriesoftheworld.com




Your wish is my command.  :Smile: 


                             26 March 2018_ 16:52_ 

*Foreign Ministry statement* _                                             564-26-03-2018                                         
_




_We  express our strong protest in the wake of the decision taken by a  number of EU and NATO member countries to expel Russian diplomats.


__We  consider this as an unfriendly step that is not consistent with the  goals and interests of establishing the underlying reasons and searching  for the perpetrators of the incident that occurred in the town of  Salisbury on March 4. The provocative gesture of the so-called  solidarity of these countries with London, which blindly followed the  British authorities in the so-called “Skripal case” and which never got  around to sort out the circumstances of the incident, is a continuation  of the confrontational policy to escalate the situation.


__Presenting  unfounded charges against Russia in the absence of explanations of what  happened and refusing to engage in meaningful interaction, the British  authorities have de facto adopted a prejudiced, biased as well as  hypocritical stance.


__This  is an attempt on the lives of Russian citizens on the territory of  Great Britain. Despite our repeated requests for information addressed  to London, Russia does not have any information in this regard. British  allies don’t have any objective and exhaustive data and blindly follow  the principle of Euro-Atlantic unity at the expense of common sense, the  rules of civilised state-to-state dialogue and the principles of  international law. It goes without saying that this unfriendly move by  this group of countries will not go unnoticed, and we will respond to  it._

Foreign Ministry statement - News - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation

----------


## OhOh

> I'm talking about his response to the Diplomatic world telling him to fuck off.
> 
> Try and keep up.


To keep the illusion in perspective and possibly for clarity:

_The following countries have announced the expulsion of Russian diplomats,
_

_Poland  4
__Lithuania  3
__Latvia  1
__The Netherlands  2
__Ukraine  13__France  4__Denmark  2
__The Czech Republic  3
__Estonia  1__Germany  4__Italy  2__Romania  1
__Finland  1__Croatia  1__Sweden  1__Albania  2__Spain  2
__Norway  1
__Hungary  1__The US  60__Canada  4__Hungary  1__Macedonia  1
__Australia  2_ 
_
Countries of the World, allegedly on this list there are 256 , some are contested:

__1
_
_ Afghanistan 
_
_2
_
_ Akrotiri_ 
_3_
_ Albania_ 
_4
_
_ Algeria_ 
_5_
_ American Samoa_ 
_6_
_ Andorra 
_
_7_
_ Angola_ 
_8_
_ Anguilla_ 
_9_
_ Antarctica 
_
_10
_
_ Antigua and Barbuda_ 
_11_
_ Argentina_ 
_12
_
_ Armenia 
_
_13_
_ Aruba_ 
_14_
_ Ashmore and Cartier Islands 
_
_15_
_ Australia 
_
_16_
_ Austria_ 
_17
_
_ Azerbaijan 
_
_18_
_ Bahamas, The_ 
_19
_
_ Bahrain_ 
_20_
_ Bangladesh_ 
_21
_
_ Barbados 
_
_22_
_ Bassas da India_ 
_23
_
_ Belarus 
_
_24_
_ Belgium_ 
_25
_
_ Belize 
_
_26_
_ Benin_ 
_27
_
_ Bermuda 
_
_28_
_ Bhutan_ 
_29
_
_ Bolivia 
_
_30_
_ Bosnia and Herzegovina_ 
_31
_
_ Botswana 
_
_32_
_ Bouvet Island_ 
_33
_
_ Brazil 
_
_34_
_ British Indian Ocean Territory 
_
_35
_
_ British Virgin Islands_ 
_36_
_ Brunei 
_
_37_
_ Bulgaria_ 
_38_
_ Burkina Faso 
_
_39
_
_ Burma_ 
_40_
_ Burundi 
_
_41
_
_ Cambodia_ 
_42_
_ Cameroon_ 
_43
_
_ Canada 
_
_44_
_ Cape Verde 
_
_45
_
_ Cayman Islands_ 
_46_
_ Central African Republic_ 
_47
_
_ Chad 
_
_48_
_ Chile_ 
_49
_
_ China 
_
_50_
_ Christmas Island_ 
_51
_
_ Clipperton Island_ 
_52_
_ Cocos (Keeling) Islands_ 
_53
_
_ Colombia 
_
_54_
_ Comoros_ 
_55
_
_ Congo, Democratic Republic of the 
_
_56_
_ Congo, Republic of the_ 
_57_
_ Cook Islands 
_
_58
_
_ Coral Sea Islands_ 
_59_
_ Costa Rica_ 
_60
_
_ Cote d'Ivoire 
_
_61_
_ Croatia_ 
_62_
_ Cuba 
_
_63
_
_ Cyprus_ 
_64_
_ Czech Republic 
_
_65
_
_ Denmark_ 
_66_
_ Dhekelia_ 
_67
_
_ Djibouti 
_
_68_
_ Dominica_ 
_69
_
_ Dominican Republic 
_
_70_
_ Ecuador_ 
_71
_
_ Egypt 
_
_72_
_ El Salvador_ 
_73
_
_ Equatorial Guinea 
_
_74_
_ Eritrea_ 
_75_
_ Estonia_ 
_76_
_ Ethiopia 
_
_77
_
_ Europa Island_ 
_78_
_ Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas)_ 
_79_
_ Faroe Islands 
_
_80_
_ Fiji_ 
_81_
_ Finland 
_
_82
_
_ France_ 
_83_
_ French Guiana_ 
_84
_
_ French Polynesia_ 
_85_
_ French Southern and Antarctic Lands_ 
_86_
_ Gabon 
_
_87
_
_ Gambia, The_ 
_88_
_ Gaza Strip_ 
_89_
_ Georgia 
_
_90
_
_ Germany_ 
_91_
_ Ghana_ 
_92_
_ Gibraltar 
_
_93
_
_ Glorioso Islands_ 
_94_
_ Greece_ 
_95_
_ Greenland 
_
_96
_
_ Grenada_ 
_97_
_ Guadeloupe_ 
_98_
_ Guam 
_
_99
_
_ Guatemala_ 
_100_
_ Guernsey_ 
_101
_
_ Guinea 
_
_102_
_ Guinea-Bissau_ 
_103_
_ Guyana 
_
_104
_
_ Haiti_ 
_105_
_ Heard Island and McDonald Islands_ 
_106
_
_ Holy See (Vatican City) 
_
_107_
_ Honduras_ 
_108_
_ Hong Kong_ 
_109
_
_ Hungary 
_
_110_
_ Iceland_ 
_111_
_ India_ 
_112
_
_ Indonesia 
_
_113_
_ Iran_ 
_114_
_ Iraq 
_
_115_
_ Ireland_ 
_116_
_ Isle of Man_ 
_117
_
_ Israel 
_
_118_
_ Italy_ 
_119_
_ Jamaica_ 
_120
_
_ Jan Mayen 
_
_121_
_ Japan_ 
_122_
_ Jersey_ 
_123
_
_ Jordan 
_
_124_
_ Juan de Nova Island_ 
_125_
_ Kazakhstan 
_
_126
_
_ Kenya_ 
_127_
_ Kiribati_ 
_128_
_ Korea, North 
_
_129
_
_ Korea, South_ 
_130_
_ Kuwait_ 
_131_
_ Kyrgyzstan 
_
_132
_
_ Laos_ 
_133_
_ Latvia_ 
_134_
_ Lebanon_ 

_135
_
_ Lesotho 
_
_136_
_ Liberia_ 
_137_
_ Libya_ 
_138
_
_ Liechtenstein 
_
_139_
_ Lithuania_ 
_140_
_ Luxembourg_ 
_141_
_ Macau 
_
_142
_
_ Macedonia_ 
_143_
_ Madagascar_ 
_144_
_ Malawi 
_
_145
_
_ Malaysia_ 
_146_
_ Maldives_ 
_147_
_ Mali 
_
_148
_
_ Malta_ 
_149_
_ Marshall Islands_ 
_150
_
_ Martinique 
_
_151_
_ Mauritania_ 
_152_
_ Mauritius_ 
_153
_
_ Mayotte 
_
_154_
_ Mexico_ 
_155_
_ Micronesia, Federated States of 
_
_156
_
_ Moldova_ 
_157_
_ Monaco_ 
_158
_
_ Mongolia 
_
_159_
_ Montserrat_ 
_160_
_ Morocco_ 
_161
_
_ Mozambique 
_
_162_
_ Namibia_ 
_163_
_ Nauru 
_
_164
_
_ Navassa Island_ 
_165_
_ Nepal_ 
_166
_
_ Netherlands 
_
_167_
_ Netherlands Antilles_ 
_168_
_ New Caledonia 
_
_169
_
_ New Zealand_ 
_170_
_ Nicaragua_ 
_171
_
_ Niger 
_
_172_
_ Nigeria_ 
_173_
_ Niue 
_
_174_
_ Norfolk Island_ 
_175_
_ Northern Mariana Islands_ 
_176
_
_ Norway 
_
_177_
_ Oman_ 
_178_
_ Pakistan_ 
_179
_
_ Palau 
_
_180_
_ Panama_ 
_181_
_ Papua New Guinea_ 
_182
_
_ Paracel Islands 
_
_183_
_ Paraguay_ 
_184_
_ Peru_ 
_185
_
_ Philippines 
_
_186_
_ Pitcairn Islands_ 
_187_
_ Poland 
_
_188
_
_ Portugal_ 
_189_
_ Puerto Rico_ 
_190_
_ Qatar 
_
_191
_
_ Reunion_ 
_192_
_ Romania_ 
_193
_
_ Russia 
_
_194_
_ Rwanda_ 
_195_
_ Saint Helena_ 
_196
_
_ Saint Kitts and Nevis 
_
_197_
_ Saint Lucia_ 
_198_
_ Saint Pierre and Miquelon_ 
_199
_
_ Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 
_
_200_
_ Samoa_ 
_201_
_ San Marino 
_
_202_
_ Sao Tome and Principe_ 
_203_
_ Saudi Arabia_ 
_204
_
_ Senegal 
_
_205_
_ Serbia and Montenegro_ 
_206_
_ Seychelles_ 
_207
_
_ Sierra Leone 
_
_208_
_ Singapore_ 
_209_
_ Slovakia_ 
_210
_
_ Slovenia 
_
_211_
_ Solomon Islands_ 
_212_
_ Somalia_ 
_213
_
_ South Africa 
_
_214_
_ South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands_ 
_215_
_ Spain_ 
_216
_
_ Spratly Islands 
_
_217_
_ Sri Lanka_ 
_218_
_ Sudan_ 
_219
_
_ Suriname 
_
_220_
_ Svalbard_ 
_221_
_ Swaziland_ 
_222
_
_ Sweden 
_
_223_
_ Switzerland_ 
_224_
_ Syria_ 
_225
_
_ Taiwan 
_
_226_
_ Tajikistan_ 
_227_
_ Tanzania_ 
_228
_
_ Thailand 
_
_229_
_ Timor-Leste_ 
_230_
_ Togo_ 
_231
_
_ Tokelau 
_
_232_
_ Tonga_ 
_233_
_ Trinidad and Tobago 
_
_234_
_ Tromelin Island_ 
_235_
_ Tunisia_ 
_236
_
_ Turkey 
_
_237_
_ Turkmenistan_ 
_238_
_ Turks and Caicos Islands_ 
_239
_
_ Tuvalu 
_
_240_
_ Uganda_ 
_241_
_ Ukraine 
_
_242_
_ United Arab Emirates_ 
_243_
_ United Kingdom_ 
_244
_
_ United States 
_
_245_
_ Uruguay_ 
_246_
_ Uzbekistan_ 
_247
_
_ Vanuatu_ 
_248_
_ Venezuela_ 
_249_
_ Vietnam 
_
_250_
_ Virgin Islands_ 
_251
_
_ Wake Island 
_
_252
_
_ Wallis and Futuna 
_
_253_
_ West Bank 
_
_254
_
_ Western Sahara_ 
_255_
_ Yemen 
_
_256_
_ Zambia 
_
_257
_
_Zimbabwe_


 http://www.listofcountriesoftheworld.com




Your wish is my command.  :Smile: 


                             26 March 2018_ 16:52_ 

*Foreign Ministry statement*

_                                             564-26-03-2018                                         
_




_We  express our strong protest in the wake of the decision taken by a  number of EU and NATO member countries to expel Russian diplomats.


__We  consider this as an unfriendly step that is not consistent with the  goals and interests of establishing the underlying reasons and searching  for the perpetrators of the incident that occurred in the town of  Salisbury on March 4. The provocative gesture of the so-called  solidarity of these countries with London, which blindly followed the  British authorities in the so-called Skripal case and which never got  around to sort out the circumstances of the incident, is a continuation  of the confrontational policy to escalate the situation.


__Presenting  unfounded charges against Russia in the absence of explanations of what  happened and refusing to engage in meaningful interaction, the British  authorities have de facto adopted a prejudiced, biased as well as  hypocritical stance.


__This  is an attempt on the lives of Russian citizens on the territory of  Great Britain. Despite our repeated requests for information addressed  to London, Russia does not have any information in this regard. British  allies dont have any objective and exhaustive data and blindly follow  the principle of Euro-Atlantic unity at the expense of common sense, the  rules of civilised state-to-state dialogue and the principles of  international law. It goes without saying that this unfriendly move by  this group of countries will not go unnoticed, and we will respond to  it._

Foreign Ministry statement - News - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation

----------


## OhOh

> I'm talking about his response to the Diplomatic world telling him to fuck off.
> 
> Try and keep up.


To keep the illusion in perspective and possibly for mental clarity:



http://www.listofcountriesoftheworld.com

  My graph is better than your flow chart. :kma: 

Your wish is my command.  :Smile: 

                             "26 March 2018_ 16:52_ 

*Foreign Ministry statement*

_                                             564-26-03-2018                                         
_
_We  express our strong protest in the wake of the decision taken by a  number of EU and NATO member countries to expel Russian diplomats.

__We  consider this as an unfriendly step that is not consistent with the  goals and interests of establishing the underlying reasons and searching  for the perpetrators of the incident that occurred in the town of  Salisbury on March 4. The provocative gesture of the so-called  solidarity of these countries with London, which blindly followed the  British authorities in the so-called “Skripal case” and which never got  around to sort out the circumstances of the incident, is a continuation  of the confrontational policy to escalate the situation.

__Presenting  unfounded charges against Russia in the absence of explanations of what  happened and refusing to engage in meaningful interaction, the British  authorities have de facto adopted a prejudiced, biased as well as  hypocritical stance.

__This  is an attempt on the lives of Russian citizens on the territory of  Great Britain. Despite our repeated requests for information addressed  to London, Russia does not have any information in this regard. British  allies don’t have any objective and exhaustive data and blindly follow  the principle of Euro-Atlantic unity at the expense of common sense, the  rules of civilised state-to-state dialogue and the principles of  international law. It goes without saying that this unfriendly move by  this group of countries will not go unnoticed, and we will respond to  it."_

Foreign Ministry statement - News - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation

----------


## Klondyke

Wondering what will happen with the states that did not express the "solidarity": e.g. Ireland, Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, not to speak about Kingdom of Tonga. And why not Israel?

----------


## OhOh

China has The LORD's back.

* Russian diplomat expulsions signal crude side of Western intention 
*
_Source:Global Times Published: 2018/3/27 8:00:15_ 

_                  On March 26, the US, Canada, and  several European Union countries expelled Russian diplomats from their  respective foreign embassies and consulates in retaliation against  Russia's alleged poisoning of former double agent Sergei Skripal and his  daughter.  As of this writing, 19 countries, including 15 EU member  states, have shown their support to Great Britain by enforcing such  measures. 

On March 4, Skripal and his daughter Yulia were rushed  to a hospital after they were found unconscious at a park in Salisbury.  It was later reported the father and daughter had come into contact  with an obscure nerve agent. UK government officials said the Skripals  were attacked by "Novichok," a powerful Soviet-era chemical nerve agent  used by the military.

The British government did not provide  evidence that linked Russia to the crime but was confident from the  beginning there could be no other "reasonable explanation" for the  attempted assassination. Great Britain was so convinced of their Russia  theory, they wasted no time taking the lead in levying sanctions against  the country by quickly expelling Russian diplomats from London.   Shortly afterwards, UK capital officials reached out to NATO and their  European allies who provided immediate support. 

The accusations  that Western countries have hurled at Russia are based on ulterior  motives, similar to how the Chinese use the expression "perhaps it's  true" to seize upon the desired opportunity. From a third-person  perspective, the principles and diplomatic logic behind such drastic  efforts are flawed, not to mention that expelling Russian diplomats  almost simultaneously isa crude form of behavior. Such actions make  little impact other than increasing hostility and hatred between Russia  and their Western counterparts.

The UK government should have an  independent investigation conducted into the Skripal poisoning by  representatives from the international community. An effort such as this  would provide results strong enough for those following the case to  make up their minds on who should or shouldn't be accused of the crime.  Now, the majority of those who support Britain's one-sided conclusion  happen to be members of NATO and the EU, while others stood behind the  UK due to long-standing relations.

The fact that major Western  powers can gang up and "sentence" a foreign country without following  the same procedures other countries abide by and according to the basic  tenets of international law is chilling. During the Cold War, not one  Western nation would have dared to make such a provocation and yet today  it is carried out with unrestrained ease. Such actions are nothing more  than a form of Western bullying that threatens global peace and  justice. 

Over the past few years the international standard has  been falsified and manipulated in ways never seen before. The  fundamental reason behind reducing global standards is rooted in  post-Cold War power disparities. The US, along with their allies, jammed  their ambitions into the international standards so their actions,  which were supposed to follow a set of standardized procedures and  protocol, were really nothing more than profit-seizing opportunities  designed only for themselves.  These same Western nations activated in  full-force public opinion-shaping platforms and media agencies to defend  and justify such privileges.

As of late, more foreign countries  have been victimized by Western rhetoric and nonsensical diplomatic  measures. In the end, the leaders of these nations are forced to wear a  hat featuring slogans and words that read "oppressing their own people,"  "authoritarian," or "ethnic cleansing," regardless of their  innocence.  

It is beyond outrageous how the US and Europe have  treated Russia. Their actions represent a frivolity and recklessness  that has grown to characterize Western hegemony that only knows how to  contaminate international relations. Right now is the perfect time for  non-Western nations to strengthen unity and collaborative efforts among  one another. These nations need to establish a level of independence  outside the reach of Western influence while breaking the chains of  monopolization declarations, predetermined adjudications, and come to  value their own judgement abilities."_

----------


## harrybarracuda

Poor Ohoh and the straw clutching.

The big boys are hitting him and that's all that counts.

Global embarrassment for our Vlad.

And even Ohoh's too embarrassed to provide the link for his dull whinge (Note Ohoh: Links are compulsory in World News, so if you don't want your post deleted, you'd better add it), because it came from a chinese government mouthpiece.

Russian diplomat expulsions signal crude side of Western intention - Global Times

----------


## harrybarracuda

My word, even the cheese-eating surrender monkeys have grown a spine and joined in the fun.

----------


## OhOh

> The big boys are hitting him


"It's too soon to tell", who'll be the last man standing, 'arry.




> And even Ohoh's too embarrassed to provide the link


My apologies.
My apologies.
My apologies.
My apologies.
My apologies.

----------


## Chittychangchang

It's not about quantity, more quality..

----------


## OhOh

> even the cheese-eating surrender monkeys


Yes the current French President does love his cheese from the mature board.

----------


## OhOh

> It's not about quantity, more quality..


Of course it is.

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## birding

With absolutely no proof whatsoever.

There is the reason for the attempt on the life of the Russian ex-spy and his daughter more sanctions needed against Russia.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> With absolutely no proof whatsoever.
> 
> There is the reason for the attempt on the life of the Russian ex-spy and his daughter more sanctions needed against Russia.


Another one who does not understand the concept of "classified intelligence".

----------


## tomcat

> Global Times


... :rofl: ...another miss for RT then...

----------


## OhOh

*Did US even bother to justify Russian UN staff expulsion? ‘Too sensitive’ to comment, UN says*

Published time: 26 Mar, 2018 21:20 

_          "The UN declined to comment on the legality of Washington’s move  to expel 12 Russian staff working there, saying only that it had been  “notified.” The US envoy to Russia hinted they hadn’t even sent  notification in advance.

_
_Speaking to reporters, the  UN spokesman declined to comment on the US move to expel 12 Russian  diplomats from the permanent mission to the UN, citing the “sensitivity”  of the issue.

_
_“Given the sensitivity of the matter, which is  ongoing, we will not comment further at this stage other than to confirm  that the Secretary-General will closely follow this matter and engage  as appropriate with the Governments concerned,” Farhan Haq, Deputy Spokesman for the Secretary-General, explained.  

The official stated that Washington had notified the UN of its  decision, made under Section 13b of the Treaty between the United  Nations and the United States as the host country.

_
_“Laws and  regulations in force in the United States regarding the residence of  aliens shall not be applied in such manner as to interfere with the …  and, specifically, shall not be applied in such manner as to require any  such person to leave the United States on account of any activities  performed by him in his official capacity,” the section reads, adding that “activities in the United States outside his official capacity” render the UN privileges void.

_
_Earlier  on Monday, the US Ambassador to Russia, Jon Huntsman, told TASS that  the US apparently did not notify the UN of its move beforehand. The  diplomat said, however, that Washington was expected to do so. Such a  decision requires some “very serious evidence,” Huntsman added. It has remained unclear whether the evidence in question was provided.

_
_The expulsion of diplomats is linked somehow both to the Skripal case and to the “concerns”  of the American people, over the numbers of intelligence officers  operating on US soil, the US envoy stated. Huntsman described the  diplomats’ ouster as the “largest expulsion of Russian intelligence officers in the United States’ history.”


_
_“The  United States takes this action in conjunction with our NATO allies and  partners around the world in response to a military-grade chemical  weapon attack on the soil of the United Kingdom by Russia,” Huntsman said, in a recorded statement. “Today's  actions make the United States a safer place by limiting the ability of  Russia to spy on Americans and conduct covert activities that threaten  America's national security.”


_
_The  US expelled the 12 Russian diplomats with the UN, as well as 48 other  diplomats working in the US, on Monday. The move came on the pretext of  alleged Russian involvement with the poisoning of former double agent  Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the British town of Salisbury on  March 4. Several NATO and European countries have also expelled Russian  diplomats, citing their “solidarity” with the UK as a reason.  While the UK pinned the blame on Moscow shortly after the incident, no  evidence has been provided so far."_

I look forward to reading the _“very serious evidence,”

https://www.rt.com/news/422409-us-expels-russian-un-diplomats/

_There is a video at the link.
In the video the government spokes man states that the ameristani leader spoke with many world leaders to drum up support his actions. Unfortunately only 9% of the worlds leaders took this opportunity to "support" the ameristani leader,  presumably one of 'arrys "big boys".

Shades of the US embassy move in Israel.

The  Treaty between the United  Nations and the United States referred to can be found  here:

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%2011/volume-11-I-147-English.pdf




> another miss for RT then...



One suspects the article carries more weight being published in a foreign newspaper, of record, allegedly.

----------


## tomcat

> https://www.rt.com


... :rofl: ...your devotion to obvious propaganda is...touching...

----------


## birding

> Another one who does not understand the concept of "classified intelligence".


Yes Harry we know but we aint gonna tell.

Your little burst of sanity when you admitted that the US should get out Afghanistan didnt last long, when it comes to Russia you have a virile hate that suppresses any reasoned thought.

Do you really think that whoever did this didnt know the reaction it would cause ? 
Do you really believe that if Russia had done it that they would not know the reaction ? 
Do you really believe that Russia would deliberately bring on sanctions against themselves by attempting to kill in a very public way a Russian citizen and an ex spy who has long since divulged any information he ever had and is of no threat to them ?

Both of these unfortunate targets could have been killed before many times over if Russia had sought their death.

No there is no proof Russia did it and hiding behind 'classified information' is bullshit.

The reaction is exactly what was planned by those who attempted this murder, the farther vilification and isolation of Russia and reinforcing Russia's status as the enemy of the west.

----------


## Neverna

^^^ Time to move the United Nations. But to where? Switzerland?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Blah Blah Blah Blah


Then your questions.




> Do you really think that whoever did this didnt know the reaction it would cause ?


I think Russia (well, Putin) underestimated it.




> Do you really believe that if Russia had done it that they would not know the reaction ?


I think Russia (well, Putin) underestimated it.




> Do you really believe that Russia would deliberately bring on sanctions against themselves by attempting to kill in a very public way a Russian citizen and an ex spy who has long since divulged any information he ever had and is of no threat to them ?


I think Russia (well, Putin) underestimated it.




> Both of these unfortunate targets could have been killed before many times over if Russia had sought their death.


I don't believe someone can be killed "many times over". Once normally suffices.




> No there is no proof Russia did it and hiding behind 'classified information' is bullshit.


Classic tin foil hat nonsense.




> The reaction is exactly what was planned by those who attempted this murder, the farther vilification and isolation of Russia and reinforcing Russia's status as the enemy of the west.


You are finally and partially correct.

Standard Putin nonsense to paint himself as the saviour of Russia against the evil West.

Classic Soviet propaganda tactic.

----------


## lom

> Another one who does not understand the concept of "classified intelligence".


Can you tell us some more about this classified intelligence Harry and how you got to know that there is any?

----------


## OhOh

> ^^^ Time to move the United Nations


How many would remain with the ameristan controlled defunct UN. The same 9% of those, the ameristani leader, managed to "persuade" to sign up to his "world opinion" group. As 'arry puts it so inappropriately. 

9% of the countries, probably 3% of the worlds population, 1% of the worlds population that can defend themselves and 0.1% that can  count beyond 3.........  :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

Joking aside, even if somebody from Russia did it, the big show that is going around the world because of this?

When considering the atrocities every day committed by the "righteous" "solidary" states causing thousands of deaths, damaged lives, countries?

A hypocrisy of the highest grade...

----------


## OhOh

> even if somebody from Russia did it


Right, off to bed, no tea for you tonight. You wait until your father gets home.

----------


## sabang

Britain is one of the most CCTV saturated countries in the world. For example, the London bombers were able to be tracked from around Derby somewhere, to London.

I'm staying quiet for now, on the basis (or belief) a major investigation is ongoing, and actual evidence, rather than hearsay, will be produced in due course. But given the actions taken, the longer this drags on without any actual evidence being produced the more skeptical I will become.

Certainly, the sceptics question "Why?" cannot be dismissed out of hand. There are several considerably easier ways to off the guy in question, and given that he had already spilled the beans, and resided in the UK for several years- Why? He was of no particular value to either Vlad or the UK.

----------


## david44

> Why?



to encourage the others

The episode prompted the French writer, Voltaire, to write in Candide 'Dans ce *pays*-*ci*, *il est bon* de *tuer* de *temps* en *temps* un *amiral pour encourager* les *autres*'. [In this country, it is customary, from time to time, to shoot an *admiral*, to *encourage* the others.] Byng is buried at All Saints Church, Southhill. [All Saints Church.


Dans ce pays-ci il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encouragerles autres. (In this country England it is thought well to kill an admiral from time to time to encourage the others. from Candide

----------


## mcgoo

Vlad  made a comment some time ago ,

Saying " you people who accept Silver Dollars for your treachery may find them in your mouth one day "  mmhh !

----------


## Klondyke

And some more that did not immediately joint the "solidarity" coming now after all. Wondering why it has taken them so long? 
Waiting on the evidence? (The US waived to see any, they trust UK, anyway.) 
Or has the Obama's invention been used - twisting the arms? 

Anyway, there are still some of the EU that haven't decided (or their arms are not so easy to twist?). Not so solidary with the country that has shown its "solidarity" with the EU bunch...

----------


## Neo

The expulsion of 60 Russian diplomats from the US, along with dozens of others from various other countries, should be a sobering moment for all of mankind. It’s a sign of how close to the brink of a major war the world is coming.

To start with, this current episode is not comparable to the 55 Soviets expelled by Ronald Reagan in 1986 or the 50 or so thrown out by George W. Bush in 2001. Those actions were directly related to spying activities – which all governments engage in, directed against their friends as well as enemies. The Russians do it, the Americans do it, everybody does it. There’s nothing remarkable about cutting the numbers down now and then, particularly after a major embarrassment like the 2001 Robert Hanssen scandal.

But these latest expulsions have nothing to do with how many of the Russians might be actual spies. Nor with the nonsensical accusations of Russian election interference to _“sow discord”_ and _“discredit democracy.”_

In fact, they have almost nothing to do with the US State Department’s unsupported claim that _“Russia used a military-grade nerve agent to attempt to murder a British citizen and his daughter in Salisbury.”_  The absence of evidence that the Russians were behind the attack is no more relevant than repeated, equally evidence-free accusations of chemical weapons use by the Syrian government. Whatever happened to the Skripals and whoever is behind it, Salisbury is a mere pretext.

No, the real purpose is much simpler. Decrying the American action, Russian Ambassador to the United States Anatoly Antonov stated that he had told his US interlocutors that _“the United States took a very bad step by cutting what very little still remains in terms of Russian-American relations.”

_But severing the last vestiges of that relationship is what the expulsions are _designed_ to do. Disrupting US-Russia ties isn’t a means to an end – it is the end.

For several years, many commentators and analysts have pondered whether the US and Russia are already in a new Cold War, and if so when things will get better. The crystal-ball gazing can now stop. The answers are all too clear.
Yes, we are in a new Cold War and have been for some time. Indeed, it is foolish to think that on the US side the first Cold War ever really stopped. As long as we had a puppet government in Moscow under Boris Yeltsin in the 1990s, we could do as we pleased. Plunder Russia’s resources with the assistance of corrupt oligarchs installed by Western _“experts.”_ Expand NATO to the east after promising we wouldn’t. Bomb Serbia. Invade Iraq. Expand NATO some more. Stage regime change operations in the name of _“democracy.”_ Declare that Ukraine and Georgia will be members of NATO.

As for the second question – no, things will not get better. Perhaps never.

What about President Donald J. Trump, the man who is supposed to be the Leader of the (anachronistically named) Free World? Hasn’t he repeatedly said he wants better relations with Russia?

The answer is supplied by the former State Department spokesman under the Obama administration, Admiral John Kirby, who said the expulsions were _“… embraced by our European allies because they’ve been worried that with some of the things they’ve heard or haven't heard from this president about Russian President Vladimir Putin means he might be soft on Moscow. But this tells them that the national security professionals they’ve been talking to behind closed doors really have held sway and the US policy is following what they have always promised, which is to crack down.”
_
Perhaps Kirby overstates how much some of our European satellites really want more confrontation with Moscow, but he’s absolutely right about the role of the _“national security professionals”_ operating _“behind closed doors.”_Make no mistake, of all of Trump’s 2016 heresies against the bipartisan establishment, none was of more concern than what seems to be his sincere wish for a new détente with Moscow.

When all is said and done, there are lots of reasons the political class hates Trump. His views on immigration and trade are near the top of the list. But for the deep state and its mainstream media arm, demonizing Russia and President Vladimir Putin personally is a dangerous obsession – and Trump presented a threat. Hence the entire Russiagate/FISAgate hysteria launched by the Steele dossier, an effort that incidentally has British (particularly MI6) fingerprints all over it. Its main goal was always to box Trump in and prevent him from pursuing any path other than the disastrous course laid out by Bill Clinton, George Bush, and Barack Obama.

Recently, one prominent Democratic senator expressed his concern over the appointment of the hawkish John Bolton as Trump’s new national security adviser, suggesting that Trump was _“lining up his war cabinet”_ that might _“blunder us into another terrible conflict.”_ But where was that senator and his leftish colleagues in the self-declared _“#Resistance”_ to Trump when they insisted on new legislatively mandated sanctions, demanded we send lethal weapons to Ukraine, called for bombing Syria, and generally accused Trump of being a traitor in collusion with Putin?

Well, the Trump critics have got their wish. The Democratic left, along with their GOP _“Never Trump”_ neoconservative allies, have won and Trump has lost. As far as foreign and security policy goes, Trump might as well not be president.

The result is a world that is one _“Sarajevo”_ moment from a new (nuclear) 1914, but not because Trump is an unpredictable, irrational _“madman”_ who needs to be restrained by the _“adults in the room.”_ That notion that is exactly backwards, as evidenced by the fact that the same _“professionals”_ were aghast at his agreement to meet North Korea’s Kim Jong-un. (In my estimation chances that the meeting will actually take place are only 50 percent and falling fast with Bolton’s appointment. Look for a _“provocation”_ by Pyongyang that will scotch the summit. Or if the meeting does take place, look for Trump to be loaded up by his team with non-negotiable demands that will guarantee failure.)

Moscow will now consider its response to the expulsions of its diplomats, but it is in a no-win situation. If, based on past practice, the Russians respond with _“proportionate”_ restraint so as not to permanently alienate their Western so-called _“partners,”_ they can be sure of more of the same – and worse. On the other hand, if they hit back asymmetrically and hard – for example cancelling overflight rights of flag carriers of sanctioning states – the howls of Russian _“rogue behavior”_ will intensify, leading to yet more and harsher sanctions, such as SWIFT cutoff. Look for a stepped-up boycott campaign against the 2018 World Cup as well as stronger calls to neutralize Moscow’s veto in the UN Security Council. Or another chemical weapons false flag in Syria. Or a possible _“Krajina scenario”_ launched by Kiev against Donbass – in the expectation that Putin will step aside the way that Slobodan Milosevic did.

Those behind this global campaign think we can treat Russia as though it were a minor power of the magnitude of Serbia, Iraq, Libya, or Syria, or even Iran. They think if we just keep pushing, pushing, pushing, either the Russians will collapse or back down. They can see no other acceptable outcome than removing Putin and returning Russia to the condition of a Yeltsin-era vassal state – a term Putin used in his interview with Oliver Stone – or, better yet, its territorial breakup along the lines suggested by the late Zbigniew Brzezinski.

Things are going to get worse. Maybe a lot worse. 

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/422455-us-r...mat-expulsion/

----------


## OhOh

> to encourage the others
> 
> The episode prompted the French writer, Voltaire, to write in Candide  'Dans ce pays-ci, il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour  encourager les autres'. [In this country, it is customary, from time to  time, to shoot an admiral, to encourage the others.] Byng is buried at  All Saints Church, Southhill. [All Saints Church.
> 
> Dans ce pays-ci il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour  encouragerles autres. (In this country England it is thought well to  kill an admiral from time to time to encourage the others. from  Candide


A Frenchman expressing his opinion of his own country, France's behaviour? An English Admiral expressing  England's attitude. 

Does that have some relevance to the Russian mind?






> Vlad made a comment some time ago ,
> 
> Saying " you people who accept Silver Dollars for your treachery may find them in your mouth one day " mmhh !


A source would be helpful to see the relevance to this thread.

Whereas The LORD said, when answering the question, from this recently released excellent factual and heavily edited video at 37.24 to 38.07:  :rofl: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3789&v=CCFs0Ptze


Scene 1:

Interviewer: Can you forgive people?
Putin:           Yes, but not for everything.
Interviewer: What can't you forgive?
Putin:           Betrayal!

Scene 2,

Interviewer: You said in such a voice .... You were betrayed in your life?
Putin:           I would prefer not to talk about this, bye and large and I can't say that I lived through such a serious experience called betrayal. No I don't think so.
Interviewer: People were afraid to betray you?
Putin:           It's hard to say. Maybe I just chose people who are non-betrayers.

----------


## OhOh

Today we have reports that the Czech President would like some evidence.

_"“I want to see the facts. I will certainly welcome if the United Kingdom  presents some evidence that the Russians wanted to kill the double  agent Skripal,” Czech President Milos Zeman told the Blesk news outlet  on Tuesday."

"While Zeman did not oppose the government’s decision to expel Russian diplomats, he said it was “it's a bit superfluous.”_ _“Let it happen. Given time, they will return,” Zeman said.

_
_Zeman, who has often been accused of being “pro-Russian,” has also dismissed allegations that the Kremlin contacted him in an attempt to influence his stance over the Skripal case.

_
_“No one from Moscow did not contact me and did not visit me,” he said.

_
_On  Monday, President Zeman ordered the country’s intelligence agencies to  look into the allegations that the nerve agent that was allegedly used  to poison Skripal might have originated from the Czech Republic.

_
_“I  do not believe this, but it is always better to have information from  counterintelligence that these allegations are untrue, than to live in  the belief that they might be true,” the official said."

https://www.rt.com/news/422514-zeman-skripal-uk-facts/


_Some public evidence of possible BREXIT fudge from the UK Gov. "investigation" into CA/MI6 linked Gov. spies/ameristani political parties illegal activities.
*Brexit under threat? UKIP deny working with Cambridge Analytica amid explosive whistleblower hearing*_"UKIP has denied the party had any working relationship with  Cambridge Analytica (CA), refuting the claims of whistleblower  Christopher Wylie.      

__The former employee from  the political data firm has thrown jaw-dropping allegations of  corruption, law breaking, and vote swaying at the firm he has now left.

_
_Wylie revealed at a DCMS committee in Parliament that he is “absolutely”  convinced Brexit campaign groups in the EU referendum worked together –  despite UK rules banning finance sharing and campaign collusion. He  said he saw evidence that Vote Leave and BeLeave were in partnership  with each other and with CA."

_One wonders if the "classified" info, so loved by 'arry, has had any input to the softening rhetoric from UK Gov. Officers.Possibly this months bulletin, from CA to their UK Gov. sponsors, shows the trend of disbelief in the UK for the Gov.'s position on the Salisbury Skirmishis going, as we say in the trade, parabolic in a negativedirection for the UK Gov. mishandling_.

https://www.rt.com/uk/422480-facebook-brexit-ukip-link/
_


A message to the Russian people addressed to The LORD.

_"Amid a deepening diplomatic crisis, UK Prime Minister Theresa  May has expressed personal condolences over Sunday’s Kemerovo shopping  mall fire that has resulted in the deaths of 64 people.

_
_“The thoughts and prayers of the British people are with the families who have lost loved ones in such terrible circumstances,” wrote May in a message posted on the Twitter feed of the British embassy in Moscow."



https://www.rt.com/news/422490-may-kemerovo-putin-condolences/

_Bumbling Boris told the HOC:_

"During his Q&A session in Parliament on Tuesday, Johnson told the House of Commons that the UK has “no desire to punish England fans” by refusing to take part in the World Cup, held in Russia from June 14 to July 15.
_
_Johnson said: “There are no plans to boycott the World Cup  in Russia or try to get a boycott from the England team which is a  matter for the Football Association not the Government.

“We  have no desire to punish England fans. There will no attendance by  ministers or the Royal family as the Prime Minister told the House on  March 14.
_
_“Several other countries have decided to put in  place the same measures. The onus is on the Russian authorities to  honour their FIFA contract to make sure they keep Scottish fans and  British fans… safe.”"

https://www.rt.com/sport/422489-bori...nd-world-cup-/

_


http://‘It’s of little interest what...ager Southgate

----------


## Klondyke

> _ ...UK has “no desire to punish England fans” by refusing to take part in the World Cup, held in Russia from June 14 to July 15._


The Russian sportsmen were punished by not admitting them to Winter Olympic in Korea. 
However, that the allegations afterwards - after the Olympics - have been nullified, it has not been publicized (almost)...

----------


## tomcat

> https://www.rt.com/news/422514-zeman-skripal-uk-facts/





> https://www.rt.com/uk/422480-facebook-brexit-ukip-link/





> https://www.rt.com/news/422490-may-kemerovo-putin-condolences/





> https://www.rt.com/sport/422489-bori...nd-world-cup-/





> https://www.rt.com/news/422490-may-kemerovo-putin-condolences/


...collectively:  :rofl:

----------


## tomcat

> However, that the allegations afterwards - after the Olympics - have been nullified, it has not been publicized (almost)...


...RT link required...

----------


## OhOh

Why was the UK not sent to Coventry in the same way when:
_
"On February 13 2017 the half-brother of North Korean leader Kim Jong-un  was assassinated in Kuala Lumpur International Airport using a nerve  agent of a type developed by the UK. 

Under International law nerve  agents are classed as Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). 

When will May  take responsibility for this indiscriminate and reckless attack? 

It is  well known this nerve agent was first produced in the UK in 1952 and it  was later militarized at DSTL Porton Down."_

A Curious Incident Part IV | The Vineyard of the Saker


Why did the UK go running to the EU, which it holds in such contempt, to elicit EU support without any evidence, when anything will soon be meaningless.

Why did Germany, the day after expelling Russian diplomats, agree to pass a law making legal for a second Russian gas pipeline to come ashore in Germany. 

https://www.rt.com/business/422476-nord-stream-permits-germany-us/




For those who like seeing Maria Zakharova, the Russian Foreign Affairs spokeperson, in a short dress speaking here is today's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=iFnM7RH11QQ

----------


## tomcat

> https://www.rt.com/op-ed/422455-us-r...mat-expulsion/





> https://www.rt.com/business/422476-nord-stream-permits-germany-us/


... :rofl: ...



> Maria Zakharova, the Russian Foreign Affairs spokeperson, in a short dress


...I assume she twists and shouts for the newsroom...

----------


## OhOh

Here's one for you;

*Yes Prime Minister - Official Secrets - Expelling the Russians*

----------


## birding

The more I think about this the more sure I am that it was not Russia that made the attempt on the lives of these two unfortunate victims.

Russia had absolutely nothing to gain from such an act and everything to lose as these two were and are no threat to Russia.

The reaction of those who need Russia as an enemy is enough to show that it was a planned anti Russian operation not only to isolate Russia as much as possible but to reinforce the false impression that she and her leader are the enemies of the west.

Now the "B"word has emerged, something I have been expecting and now we will see this pushed hard in the coming weeks.

When the truth eventually emerges and it will for there must have been quite a few people involved in the planning and carrying out this atrocity, in time at least one of them will become disgusted with what they were part of then files and documents will appear and someone will go down hard and it will not be Russia.

----------


## Neo

> 


Tomcat doesnt have anything original to say...
 ::chitown::

----------


## tomcat

> Tomcat doesnt have anything original to say...


...we must have a lot in common then...

----------


## Pragmatic

> The more I think about this the more sure I am that it was not Russia that made the attempt on the lives of these two unfortunate victims.


 Nothing to add to this other than I agree.  :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

> Originally Posted by Klondyke 
> However, that the allegations afterwards - after the Olympics - have been nullified, it has not been publicized (almost)...
> ...RT link required...


What's a link to you?

----------


## Klondyke

There are so many poisonous substances available to every powerful secrets service.  Purpose of those things is there are not so easily disoverable, for an easy disposal of inconvenient persons. Only in very few cases there is some suspision, mostly only when it is to be exploited politically.

Wondering why about the other Russian spy Glushkov who died few days after the Skripals case has not been made such noise like with the Skripals. And not so directly attributed to dangerous Mr. Putin. 

And all these guys including the poor Litvinenko years ago were closely connected with the famous oligarch Boris Berezovsky who also mysteriously died. No money spent for their inquest?

----------


## OhOh

Are there any elections due in the UK soon? May must be desperate.

----------


## sabang

The nerve agent used could have been synthesized in several countries, including US & UK.  There is no doubt about that.
If this was a Putin ordered hit, it makes the Russian intelligence services look totally laughable. It was farcical.
And why use a nuclear missile to destroy a disused barn door, then miss? There are considerably more effective and elegant ways.
So if it came from Putin, it was to make some sort of statement. But given the rampant amateurism? We expect better from the KGB.
I impatiently await any form of actual evidence beyond "Well He would, wouldn't He?"  CCTV perhaps?
It appears certain the hit happened at his home, given that's where the PC copped a dose. His daughter may be the perp, but Russki's don't think so.
A puzzle within an enigma.
And why won't the Brits share a sample of the dose? That could establish where it was actually synthesized.

----------


## Neo

> ...we must have a lot in common then...



don't flatter yourself, you're clearly not that smart.. the article was an op ed, not presented as fact but an opinion based on factual events.. meant for discussion. 

you're not adding anything to discussion here, you're just trolling for attention like you do across the rest of the forum, so why don't you toodle off back to sucking up to Rant in the dog house, that is your intellectual level after all

 ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

> given that's where the PC copped a dose


Allegedly? In and out in a couple of days?

----------


## Listerman

Interesting interview on Channel 4 news last night.

When John Snow asks the Estonian prime minister why she expelled Russian diplomats, she replies "because we trust the British Government"

https://www.channel4.com/news/presid...putin-language

If all these expulsions are based on trusting the British Government, then I hope they can provide some compelling evidence in the very near future.

----------


## Neverna

> It appears certain the hit happened at his home, given that's where the PC copped a dose. His daughter may be the perp, but Russki's don't think so.


I think it's possible it came via the daughter but unwittingly. Perhaps she gave him a gift that was laced with some poison/nerve agent but I doubt she knew it otherwise she'd be not only kiling her father but committing suicide too. Perhaps the gift was a gift from somebody else and given via the daughter, or perhaps it was a gift from the daughter but the gift had been tampered with by someone else without her knowledge.

----------


## tomcat

...or perhaps aliens delivered the nerve gas via thought transmissions...I expect an RT report imminently...

----------


## Klondyke

> ...or perhaps aliens delivered the nerve gas via thought transmissions...I expect an RT report imminently...


as usually, a valuable comment that does not disappoint your fan club...

----------


## tomcat

> a valuable comment that does not disappoint


...RT-inspired comment supports alien nerve gas theory!...

----------


## bsnub

> RT-inspired comment


They get the marching orders directly from their dear leader don't ya know.  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

*UPDATE: Salisbury investigation* *News                      •                 Mar 28, 2018 20:19 BST*
_"Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon, Senior National Coordinator for Counter Terrorism Policing said: “At  this point in our investigation, we believe the Skripals first came  into contact with the nerve agent from their front door. We are  therefore focusing much of our efforts in and around their address.  Those living in the Skripals’ neighbourhood can expect to see officers  carrying out searches as part of this but I want to reassure them that  the risk remains low and our searches are precautionary."_


Was this what our gallant Detective Sargent, "employed " at a neighbouring police force, was trying to clean off when he visited the house? After confirming to MI* that the two victims had succumbed to poison? 

Did he get some on his own body, necessitation his quick trip to the hospital, where he was "cured" in a day or so?

 Was he "cured" because he knew what the poison was and could inform the doctor, allowing Porton Down to quickly despatch the antidote, enabling the doctor to save his life?

----------


## Pragmatic

> we believe the Skripals first came into contact with the nerve agent from their front door.


 Nerve agent kills within minutes of skin contact. Not a couple of hours later. 


> Novichoks were designed to be more toxic than other *chemical* weapons, so some versions *would* begin to *take effect* rapidly - in *the* order of 30 seconds ...

----------


## OhOh

An arcticle which lays out exactly the relationship between the UK Gov. Porton Down, Ukranie Gov. and ameristan Gov. continuing in"assiting each other" by experimenting with various chemical and biological weapons of mass detruction on animals and humans.

*Salisbury Nerve Agent Attack Reveals $70 Million Pentagon Program at Porton Down*

       Posted on March 28, 2018Natural Health News

_"__The Pentagon has spent at least $70  million on military experiments involving tests with deadly viruses and  chemical agents at Porton Down – the UK military laboratory near the  city of Salisbury. The secretive biological and chemical research  facility is located just 13 km from where on 4th   March  former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were  found slumped on a bench following an alleged Novichok nerve agent  poisoning."_

Innumerable contracts, secret agreements, government orders, reports ... 

https://www.naturalblaze.com/2018/03...n-program.html

A selection:

Utilising the London Underground System for "research".

_"2013 DSTL, ANL, LBNL, BNL Dft (UK), DHS5 PFTs, SF6 Urea London Underground Liquid aerosol droplet, lack of sensitivity/specificity_ 


https://data.gov.uk/data/contracts-finder-archive/contract/261565/


https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Env%20Assessment%2C%20DHS%20S%26T%2C%20NYC%20Subwa  y%20UTR.PDF



Testing VX gas optained from Syria by OPCW.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991253/


ameristani contracts with Porton Down.

https://govtribe.com/contract/award/...0%3B100&page=2

https://govtribe.com/contract/idv/hdtra112d0003

https://govtribe.com/project/ukdstl-...n-and-exchange

https://govtribe.com/contract/idv/hdtra112d0003

Experimental respiratory anthrax infection in the common marmoset (_Callithrix jacchus_) similar with Ebola. Interesting that  the male victim had these types of animals at his home.



_Guinea pigs were found in the house  of the poisoned ex-spy in Salisbury, just a few kilometers away from  Porton Down, where such guinea pigs were used for nerve agent chemical  tests._


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3607144/


https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/212/suppl_2/S336/2194364


Porton Down: Animal Experiments:Written question - 43677 - UK Parliamenthttps://www.gov.uk/government/upload...2017-04492.pdf

ameristani collusion with Ukraine in the CW area.

https://2001-2009.state.gov/documents/organization/95251.pdf

.......... and on and on and on. Not a clean hand to be found. I suspect others have similar unknown agreements.

But hopefully all known by OPCW and recorded there one presumes.

One wonders how a governments leader could suggest that there is only one sources of an "unknown" chemical weapon and accuse a country of an act of war.

----------


## tomcat

> One wonders


...to date, the wonderers are in a vanishing minority, dearest rtOhOh...

----------


## OhOh

> Nerve agent kills within minutes of skin contact. Not a couple of hours later.


Take it up with the Met.

Some highly educated, trained to act and perform in an emergency, and yet appear to be very gullible. It takes training to stand up with a straight face and lie, all for a few more moments to breath. Well, that's what he was promised by his mistress.

 But understanding facts .......... :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> are in a vanishing minority,


Numbers of countries?
Numbers of worlds leaders?
Population of the world?
GDP of countries?
Numbers of votes from inhabitants of illegal overseas military bases - damn you got me on that one.
Numbers of civilians killed in wars, that were judged by government officials to be "worth it" - damn you got me on that one, too.
Gold bars in their vaults?
Numbers of voters agreeing with them?
...............

Or maybe you have alternate methods of determining a minority. Please share.

When did you start enjoying being emotionally abused?

 ::chitown::

----------


## tomcat

> OhOh: the hysteria


...ftfy...

----------


## Pragmatic

A drop of nerve agent, the size of a pinhead, will kill a buffalo in 4 minutes. The shit reportedly used in this story has killed nobody, as yet. One person, policeman, has recovered miraculously. And yet this agent, in this case, has been found all over the place, from the Ruskies house, their cars aircon, the restaurants etc and seems to have been liberally used. If all this was/is true there should be people dying in their thousands being as nerve agent can be wind spread. This story is bullshit.

----------


## Albert Shagnasty2017

> This story is bullshit.


Of course it is mate.

----------


## Klondyke

> ...ftfy...


Any opinion?

----------


## reddog

The Kiwis are beached as bro,With Western countries tossing out Russian spies or if they are not sure,just bad Russian drivers connected to their embassies,
the Kiwis weren't able to find any spies,bit sad for world standings bragging rights.

----------


## OhOh

Wait for all the fish dying in the river and the rooks waiting on the telephone wires.

----------


## Begbie

> *UPDATE: Salisbury investigation*
> 
> *News                                       Mar 28, 2018 20:19 BST*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon, Senior National Coordinator for Counter Terrorism Policing said: At  this point in our investigation, we believe the Skripals first came  into contact with the nerve agent from their front door. We are  therefore focusing much of our efforts in and around their address.  Those living in the Skripals neighbourhood can expect to see officers  carrying out searches as part of this but I want to reassure them that  the risk remains low and our searches are precautionary."_


Fortunately the Skripals front door has been guarded by a Chemical Weapons expert wearing protective gear, oh wait.....

----------


## Klondyke

Chinese comment:

*Russian diplomat expulsions signal crude side of Western intention*

The West is only a small fraction of the world and is nowhere near the global representative it once thought it was.  The silenced minorities within the international community need to realize this and prove just how deep their understanding is of such a realization by proving it to the world through action. With the Skripal case, the general public does not know the truth, and the British government has yet to provide a shred of evidence justifying their allegations against Russia. 

It is firmly believed that accusations levied by one country to another that are not the end results of a thorough and professional investigation should not be encouraged. Simultaneously expelling diplomats is a form of uncivilized behavior that needs to be abolished immediately.

Russian diplomat expulsions signal crude side of Western intention - Global Times

----------


## tomcat

> Global Times


... :rofl: ...

----------


## Pragmatic

The daughter is now said to be conscious, so how is this possible?




> conventional nerve agent antidotes may not work.






> At the right doses, nerve agents can kill within five to 15 minutes, says chemical weapons expert Mark Bishop at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey. But the Novichok agents are thought to be even more dangerous and deadly; Mirzayanov claimsthat Novichok-5, for example, can be five to eight times more potent than VX.So the fact that the Skripals are still alive means that “it must have been low dose, or impure, or not administered in a really efficient way,” Bishop tells_ The Verge_. “Because it doesn’t take very much of a nerve agent to be fatal.”
> Treating Novichok poisoning is also “practically impossible,”according to the _Handbook of Toxicology of Chemical Warfare Agents_. For other nerve agents, the treatment is usually diazepam or Valium to stave off seizures, and atropine, which helps dry up the secretions that could choke or drown a nerve gas victim, Chai tells _The Verge_. That buys a little time for another drug called pralidoxime, or 2-PAM, to prevent the nerve agent from permanently shutting off that key enzyme. But Novichok agents might have more ways of harming people, according to the _Handbook__:_ “Consequently, conventional nerve agent antidotes may not work.”
> “IT DOESN’T TAKE VERY MUCH OF A NERVE AGENT TO BE FATAL.”
> It’s surprising to see Novichok surface in 2018, not least because Russia was supposed to have destroyed its 39,967 metric tons of chemical weapons by September 2017, according to the international organization that oversees the chemical weapons ban. The British prime minister has demanded that Moscow release information about the Novichok program, so it’s possible that we could soon learn more about these nerve agents.
> Bishop, however, says not to bet on it: “The Russians are really good at keeping secrets.”


 https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/14/1...soning-england

----------


## Klondyke

> ......


As usually, you do not disappoint, a good comment...

----------


## tomcat

> a good comment


...wish I could say more, but your "sources" are a laugh a minute...

----------


## bsnub

> As usually, you do not disappoint


The irony is on you not TC.

----------


## Neo

> The daughter is now said to be conscious, so how is this possible?


Don't expect the mainstream media to question their own narrative. 

Opinion has been formed, the sheeple have been fed.. time for another crisis, next  ::chitown::

----------


## Pragmatic

Kim Jong-nam was carrying 12 vials of nerve agent antidote when he got poisoned. Didn't help him did it?

----------


## Troy

Lots of different variants of nerve agent Pragmatic and different variants of Novichok. Have they found out how the agent was administered? It could have been a weaker variant in powder form.

I'm open minded, I doubt the girl will ever make a full recovery if it was a nerve agent. That doesn't mean she won't be fit enough to leave hospital just that she'll have permanent damage to the nervous system.

----------


## OhOh

Grey skies, leafless trees, 1.0 L mini saloon, grubby brick along with plastic doors and windows.

How do people live in such conditions

----------


## Klondyke

> ...wish I could say more, but your "sources" are a laugh a minute...


Whatever the "source" is, the mathematics is correct, isn't it? "The West is only a small fraction of the world".
What do "your sources" say?

----------


## Neverna

> Grey skies, leafless trees, 1.0 L mini saloon, grubby brick along with plastic doors and windows.
> 
> How do people live in such conditions




You can see inside the house here (link below) - as it was before Skripal lived there. Bought for 260,000 in 2011. 

House Price History

And Google street map view (link below). It looks OK. Nothing grand, but OK.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.07...7i13312!8i6656

----------


## bsnub

> the sheeple have been fed..


Indeed you have and the sheer volume of bogus RT links you have crammed into this thread is proof of it. You are easily conned by your little puppet master in the Kremlin.

----------


## OhOh

> That doesn't mean she won't be fit enough to leave hospital just that she'll have permanent damage to the nervous system.







> The daughter is now said to be conscious, so how is this possible?


Some are suggesting she was able to talk. Unfortunately Salisbury NHS Trust Hospital has no Russian speakers thus her deathbed confession has been lost forever. They have plenty of Polish speakers, thought to be a similar Eastern language, but the multilingual cleaning staff were on their tea break at the time. The NHS tried to arrange "top secret clearance" to enable the cleaners access to the near death patient but the MI6 computers were down due to Russian hacking.

Back to how to cook a fried egg with some ageing fat woman who has the correct accent, breeds dogs that squeak when thrown into the Aga and enjoys the rough and tumble available at Hickstead in our glorious 2 week summer season.

Reinforcements are now guarding the alleged crime scene. 



_"Meanwhile the police have placed cordons round a children's play area at Montgomery Gardens near Mr Skripal's home."_ [It's actually 25 miles away but "near" is close enough eh?]

Russian spy: Yulia Skripal 'conscious and talking' - BBC News

Reports of children experiencing burning sensations, skin rash and hiccups, after using the slide have increased nationwide in the last fortnight. All UK hospitals are calling for skin donors and used brown paper bags, as a desperate shortage has arisen.

Mr. Skripal's cleaner has been barred from the house after trying to steal gold bars and a hard drive. The gold bars were allegedly promised to the 17 year old Asian cleaner for services provided during the last few months. The hard drive contains videos of consensual sex between an elderly white male and a terrified, bound, gagged and hooked up to an electrically powered pump of some description, Asian woman. Met police are trying to find the people indulging in what the BBC believe are illegal violent actions.

Russian consular staff still await permission to visit a Russian citizen, abducted without her consent, to an unknown destination, by a notorious UK clique, who relies on power by bribing influential citizens.

----------


## Neverna

> _"Meanwhile the police have placed cordons round a children's play area at Montgomery Gardens near Mr Skripal's home."_ [It's actually 25 miles away but "near" is close enough eh?]


Actually it is very near. Montgomery Gardens is the name of a road off Christie Miller Road (where Skripal lives).

----------


## OhOh

> You are easily conned by your little puppet master in the Kremlin.


"Who pays an exceptional stipend", you missed that out.

Not like the unexceptional leaders who bend you aver and abuse you until you cannot amuse them anymore.

----------


## Neverna

FYI.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Lots of different variants of nerve agent Pragmatic and different variants of Novichok. Have they found out how the agent was administered? It could have been a weaker variant in powder form.


Irrespective of what nerve agent variant it was they're all treated basically the same  


> https://chemm.nlm.nih.gov/antidote_nerveagents.htm


The latest claim is that the agent was in gel form and smeared on the Ruskie's front door handle.

----------


## Neverna

And before OhOh claims there is no children's play area in Montgomery Gardens in Salisbury ...



https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.07...7i13312!8i6656

----------


## cyrille

You're so easily taken in, nev.

That is clearly a listening post for MI5.

The equipment is not even three dimensional.

Notice how the shadow of the swings is on the left, but the shadows on the right of the pic. are on the right of the equipment.

I'm calling doctored pic.

----------


## Neverna

^ Yep. Good call. The picture clearly shows a play area transposed into Google maps by MI5/MI6. The original play area "actually" comes from the House of Commons play area. If you look closely you can just about make out Theresa May's name written on the slide and Boris Johnson's on the swings.

----------


## Begbie

> You can see inside the house here (link below) - as it was before Skripal lived there. Bought for 260,000 in 2011.


Thats frightening, £260,000 for a semi detached former council house. Thatcher has a lot to answer for. She should be dug up and shot.

----------


## stroller

The equipment in the play area is clearly unused.

It was taken from a secret MI5 warehouse 25 miles away and installed in a hurry by fake police officers.

Google maps colluded in the deception.

In fact, nobody was poisoned, the former spy & daughter have been kidnapped and are being held in an illegal interrogation center commissioned by the Illuminati. It's located underneath the fake playground.

If you look closely, you can spot the handle and hinges on the roundabout. Near the swing, one can still detect traces of bodies dragged across the sand.

What is the significance of the number 25, you may ask. Look up the writings of the 7th book, it's all there.

----------


## Pragmatic

> I'm calling doctored pic.


 I googled it, the pic Nev published is the actual park.

----------


## stroller

^
Ah, another one easily misled by the Illuminati owned MSM and MI6 controlled Google...

----------


## Pragmatic

> Ah, another one easily misled by the Illuminati owned MSM and MI6 controlled Google...


 I'll appologise if I'm wrong but I ain't.    https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local...investigation/

----------


## thailazer

Looks like the Russian oligarchs have some control over the USA in keeping this murder on American soil quiet.   If you add up all the Russians that died quickly over the past three years, it is quite the list.   As I have said before, I hope someone has Mueller's back as he brings light to all of this.   

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonleopol...ral#.ab9A1dbkQ

----------


## Klondyke

> as it was before Skripal lived there. Bought for 260,000 in 2011.


Surely after years of saving pence to pence (kopeika to kopeika?)

----------


## Klondyke

> I expect an RT report imminently...


I have to laugh how somebody cocks his nose over some sources. "It's a state run source, such is nothing for me, I believe only the ones not run by a state, the case closed."

Really? You do believe such "recognized" one that's run by corporations? And how a corporation is controlled? To whom do a corporation respond? Surely not to the public. 

 Unlike a source "run by a state" where always are the means for public control.

Pity of such people who do not use their brain and feel so übermensch over some sources...

----------


## OhOh

> Surely after years of saving pence to pence (kopeika to kopeika?)


A tidy sum for a Russian, be it on released from prison or a public servant. One wonders how many UK prisoners, upon release, purchase such properties.

----------


## OhOh

*Russian investigators seek UK legal support in case of Skripal’s daughter*_"__MOSCOW, March 29 (RAPSI) – The Investigative  Committee of Russia has forwarded a request to the UK authorities  seeking legal support in a criminal case over attempted murder of Yulia  Skripal, the daughter of the former Russian intelligence officer Sergey  Skripal, the Committee’s press-service has stated.

__The Investigative Committee has provided the request to the  Prosecutor General’s Office for official transfer to British  authorities.

_
_Investigators ask their counterparts in the United Kingdom to  establish the circumstances of the crime and provide copies of the case  documents including reports on examination of the place where Skripal  was found as well as the results of her medical examination. The  Committee noted that it is ready to cooperate with the Great Britain in  this case.

_
_On March 4, ex-Russian intelligence officer Sergey Skripal, who was  found guilty of espionage in favor of the UK in 2006 and pardoned later,  and his daughter Yulia were affected by a powerful nerve agent.  Currently, both of them are in critical condition in a British hospital.  Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Theresa May accused Russia of  unlawful use of force in Great Britain. Russia denies the accusations.
_
_Later, Russian authorities launched a criminal case over attempted murder of Yulia Skripal in Salisbury."

Russian investigators seek UK legal support in case of Skripal?s daughter | Russian Legal Information Agency (RAPSI)._
*Investigative Committee of Russia*_"The Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation (Russian: Следственный комитет Российской Федерации) has since January 2011 been the main federal investigating authority in Russia. Its name (Sledstvennyi komitet) is usually abbreviated to Sledkom (Russian: Следком). The agency replaced the Russian Prosecutor General's Investigative Committee and operates as Russia's anti-corruption agency. It is answerable to the President of Russia and has statutory responsibility for inspecting the police forces, combating police corruption and police misconduct and is responsible for conducting investigations into local authorities and federal governmental bodies."_

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invest...ttee_of_Russia

----------


## OhOh

29 March 2018_21:20_ 
*Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s  reply to a media question about Russia’s retaliation against the  expulsion of Russian diplomats, Moscow, March 29, 2018*                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         599-29-03-2018                                         




"*Question:* Will you retaliate against the expulsion of Russian diplomats using tit-for-tat methods or something stronger?

*Sergey Lavrov:* We  will retaliate in kind, but there will be more. Virtually right now, US  Ambassador to Russia Jon Huntsman is at the Ministry and Deputy Foreign  Minister Sergey Ryabkov is explaining to him the substance of our  retaliatory measures with regard to the United States. These include the  expulsion of the same number of US diplomats and our decision to  withdraw our consent to the operation of the US Consulate General in St  Petersburg. As for the number of diplomatic mission staff from the other  countries who will be leaving Russia, it is also a tit-for-tat  procedure. Basically, this is it.


  I  would like to say right away that in addition, we want to do more than  just respond to the absolutely unacceptable actions taken against us  under the harshest ever US and British pressure predicated on the  “Skripal case.” By the way, I would like to mention with some  satisfaction that earlier today the British authorities informed us  about the condition of at least Yulia Skripal. They said Yulia is  rapidly recovering. We again urged them to provide us with access to  Yulia as a Russian citizen. I hope our British counterparts will be able  to perform its obligations under the Consular Convention and the Vienna  Convention on Diplomatic Relations.


  We  will not just respond reactively to what the Anglo-Saxon tandem is  doing with regard to Russia, forcing everyone to follow the anti-Russian  course. We would like to establish the truth. Since the very start of  this crisis, we have repeatedly stated that British Prime Minister  Theresa May has baselessly accused Russia of being implicated in the  poisoning of Sergey Skripal and his daughter. She urged us in an  ultimatum-like manner to answer a question that could not be answered:  she demanded that, within 24 hours, we confirm that the Russian  leadership had ordered the poisoning of the Skripals or that they had  lost control over their chemical arsenal. Clearly, it is impossible to  respond to these things, even if we tried hard to find some answers.  Instead, we suggested that they refer to international law, the Chemical  Weapons Convention which contains a special article. Under this  article, if any party to the CWC has questions for another party, it is  recommended that they get in contact with each other, hold a bilateral  exchange of views and information, and hold consultations. Great Britain  arrogantly turned this down and instead dug out of the CWC a technical  clause to the effect that a party to the Convention can apply to the  OPCW Technical Secretariat for technical assistance. Under that clause,  OPCW experts have now arrived in Britain at its invitation to form an  opinion and analyse the substance, which, as the British allege, was  used to poison Sergey and Yulia Skripal. I would like to note right away  that this article only enables the OPCW Technical Secretariat to  identify the chemical composition of a substance that will be presented  for analysis. The OPCW Technical Secretariat has no power to confirm or  verify Britain’s conclusions. It has no such rights. Also, the  investigation itself is not over yet. As you know, Scotland Yard says  that it will take months, but the verdict has been returned nonetheless.  This is sad, because we have not seen so much mockery of international  law for quite a long time.


  To  get a normal discussion and to establish the truth, we have officially  proposed to convene an extraordinary session of the OPCW Executive  Council on April 4, where we will present a summary of the specific  questions that we have repeatedly asked. I hope that our Western  partners will not evade an honest conversation. Otherwise they will  confirm once again that what is happening is a premeditated gross  provocation. 


Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov?s reply to a media question about Russia?s retaliation against the expulsion of Russian diplomats, Moscow, March 29, 2018 - News - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation

----------


## OhOh

*Russia reads the riot act to US*

_“The video of Pakistan Prime Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi nonchalantly zipping up his trousers at the JFK airport in New York after the frisking when he landed on American soil recently, gives a dismal feeling. But one would say, ‘No surprises here!’ No, I’m not making a ‘anti-Pakistan’ statement. Frankly, 90 percent of the Indian elite would also any day be only too eager to unzip their trousers if that was what was needed to be permitted to enter the US. Remember the famous incident of the stripping of an Indian Defence Minister right down to his underwear at the JFK airport?_ _It is in their DNA – be it Abbasis or Bhatias and Suris. Pathetic. Their argument is a familiar one – only the West can provide us investments and new technology, management practices and facilitate integration into global technological chains. Of course, Indian pundits went overboard by expounding that the George W Bush administration was determined to make their country a ‘great power’ and a ‘counterweight’ to China, and make it America’s ‘natural ally’ and so on._

_That is why this morning’s news of the expulsion of 60 American diplomats posted in Russia brings cheer. To be frank, I was skeptical whether Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov would be able to keep his word when he said earlier this week that Russia would retaliate. The point is, Russia also has its fair share of the ‘westernists’ among its elite. Even after all that has happened in Russia’s relations with the US in the recent years and notwithstanding the foul air that envelops them, there are Russian strategists who still argue that America is an indispensable partner for Russia._

_Therefore, Moscow’s decision to give back to the Americans fully in their own coin marks a new stage. First, Russians have assessed that the controversy over the Skripal spy case is in reality an Anglo-American joint venture – and not a solo act by London. Evidently, the feedback from various European capitals would be that they came under immense American pressure to follow the US-UK lead and expel Russian diplomats. Which means there is a deliberate American strategy to degrade Russia’s relations with the West. There is really no sense in Moscow trying to salvage the situation by making conciliatory moves._

_Second, Russians are no longer making a distinction between President Trump and the so-called Deep State in America. They will henceforth attack Trump’s policies on merit. Put differently, Trump cannot have it both ways – being pally with Vladimir Putin on the phone while also acting bloody-mindedly toward Russia on the policy front. The Russians couldn’t care a damn anymore as to who is the “real Trump” or whether he is only trying to placate the “swamp” in the Beltway._

_Third, most important, Russia is assessing that the only language Washington understands is the language of strength. This of course has profound consequences for regional and international security. Indeed, there are serious limitations today to the US’ capacity to browbeat Russia. The US policies are inconsistent and fickle whereas Russian foreign policy is rational, coherent and stable. The American society is hopelessly split and polarized whereas Russian society is consolidated and stands united. Trump can never match anywhere near the groundswell of support Putin enjoys from the Russian nation._

_In geopolitical terms, the US’ transatlantic leadership role is shaky. Interestingly, while making token expulsion of Russian diplomats on Monday, Germany also simultaneously gave the final clearance for the construction of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline project from Russia, defying the US opposition. French President Emmanuel Macron just signaled his plan to visit Russia in May. Austria point blank turned down the US-UK demarche seeking expulsion of Russian diplomats. May 12 becomes a crucial dateline: if Trump tears up the Iran nuclear deal, there may be mutiny by the US’ European allies._

_On the other hand, China has signaled its interest to further strengthen the quasi-alliance with Russia. The Chinese Ministry of Defence said on Thursday that Beijing and Moscow will “jointly defend the interests of the two states and also maintain regional and global peace and stability.” No doubt, it is a hugely resonant statement in the prevailing backdrop. The Chinese Defence Minister Wei Fenghe is visiting Moscow next week._

_In strategic terms, too, the new weapon systems developed by Russia (announced by Putin on March 1) reinforce the country’s capacity to maintain global strategic balance for the foreseeable future. The hypersonic missiles, in particular, are unique and can be decisively lethal in a Russia-US confrontation. Significantly, the Russian note verbale on Thursday declaring the expulsion of 60 American diplomats gives a pointed warning to the Trump administration that any seizure of Russian assets in the US “will lead to a serious deterioration in bilateral relations, which will result in dire consequences for global stability.” Read the defiant remarks by Lavrov regarding the expulsion of American diplomats.”_

_http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakuma...iot-act-to-us/_

----------


## Neverna

> The detective sergeant, allegedly poisoned with a deadly chemical weapon but quickly released after a miracle cure, unavailable for unknown reasons to the two other, alleged, CW poisoned victims, actually isn't a Salisbury based police office. 
> 
> He, allegedly, is employed by another town police force some *25 MILES AWAY. *


Who alleges he is employed by another town police force some *25 MILES AWAY.*   Please point us to a source of this allegation.*

*



> A very important part of this puzzle" has vanished from the scene with no public investigation. In my mind suspiciously.


What is this "very important part of this puzzle" that has "vanished"? Please be specific so that those of us who haven't read the same conspiracy and whackjob websites as you can understand.  :Smile:  Thanks in advance.

----------


## bsnub

> infected with OhOh27 BS agent.


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Pragmatic

A good read of events.


> *NHS Doctor: "No Patients Have Experienced Symptoms Of Nerve Agent Poisoning In Salisbury"*





> The Skripal poisoning case stinks. The British government is obviously not telling the truth about it. It uses the script of a recent spy drama to allege a 'Novichok' attack to implicate Russia and to raise anti-Russian sentiment. Information about the case is evidently held back. The media is mostly complicit.



http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03/no-patients-have-experienced-symptoms-of-nerve-agent-poisoning-in-salisbury.html

----------


## tomcat

> www.moonofalabama.org


... :rofl: ...

----------


## Pragmatic

You may laugh Tom.




> *March 12, 2018*
> *Theresa May's "45 Minutes" Moment*Today the British government made some dubious assertions about Saddam's chemical weapons the poisoning of its double agentSergej Skripal.
> biggerThe British Prime Minister Theresa May claimed (saved tweet) in Parliament that:
> 
> Sergej Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a military grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia.The nerve agent was part of a group of agents known as 'Novichok'.Russia has previously produced the agent and would still be capable of doing so.Russia has a record of conducting state sponsored assassinations.The British government assesses that Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets.The British government concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for the act against Sergej and Yulia Skripal.
> May went on to claim that:
> 
> This was either a direct act by the Russian State against the United Kingdom orthe Russian government lost control of the nerve agent and let it fall into the hands of others.
> I find all of the above claims not only dubious but laughable. Here are some facts:
> ...

----------


## tomcat

...still chuckling over your "source", thanks... :rofl: ...you rt/swampblog dementos are always good for a laugh...

----------


## Pragmatic

> ...still chuckling over your "source", thanks......you rt/swampblog dementos are always good for a laugh...


And vice versa

----------


## OhOh

> Please point us to a source of this allegation.


Allegation or opinion? You prove it is not a fact. Your UK police friends may help.




> What is this "very important part of this puzzle


An alleged witness was utilised to "inform" the public of a crime. Since he was "cured" nobody has asked zilch. 

Have they been warned off, officially or quietly, or has he served his purpose and now the spotlight is switched off? 

On with the next fairy tale, but the shit clings to the integrity of the chosen victim. This method has been used time after time. If you can look back in recent and ancient history, just for a second or too. I'm sure your web search engine of choice will help.

You could ask your UK police "friends"to confirm this "opinion":

_"A DS does NOT get called to drunks on a bench (the initial call to  Wiltshire Constabulary), nor does a regular CID DS go to search the  house of drunks found on a bench. Both of these are uniform roles. 
__
Nor would general duty police, uniform or CID, know who a resettled  SIS agent was, let alone where hed been settled. There may have/should  have been a restricted marker flagged on the national computer, but  access to the knowledge contained therein would be extremely limited."

_And this:_

"__do you not realise that DS Baileys wife works for Cambrdige Analytica?"

_Allegedlyinfo about DS Bailey which ran on Sky News on 8 March. Not being a Sky listener I can't confirm it.:


_"The police officer who fell seriously ill after the nerve agent  attack put a rapist behind bars who had been at large for  decades.Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, 38, is now stable and conscious  after being in intensive care following the attack. Ex-Russian spy  Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia are still critically ill after  they were found collapsed on a bench in Salisbury.
_
_DS Bailey was one of the first at the scene when the pair were found  slumped in The Maltings on Sunday. The officer was recognised for  outstanding police work in December 2016 when he put a Salisbury rapist  behind bars for more than 14 years. He spent two years building a case  against Arthur Bonner, who sexually assaulted numerous victims over four  decades between the early 1970s and 2014. His work was praised by the  then chief constable Mike Veale for his dedication and outstanding  professionalism and for the sensitive way he dealt with the victims and  their families.
_
_Acting Chief Constable of Wiltshire Police, Kier Pritchard, said he  had been to visit DS Bailey. He said: Ive known Nick for many years,  hes a great character. Hes a huge presence in Wiltshire Police   well-liked, well-loved, a massively dedicated officer. Hes clearly  receiving high specialist treatment. Hes well, hes sat up. Hes  clearly not the Nick that I know, but hes in the safe hands of the  medical professionals working in Salisbury District Hospital._

_But hes very anxious, very concerned. He did his best on that  night. Im proud of all our staff who attended this incident at the  Maltings on that night. They responded to try to protect people who were  ill, with limited information.
_
_Messages of support have poured in for DS Bailey from the public and  police forces across the country. Sarah Bailey, from Waters Road,  Salisbury, said DS Bailey was involved in a case with her a few years  ago. She told the Salisbury Journal: He was fantastic, so helpful and  supportive. I really do hope he has a full and speedy recovery."_


It may be useful to search telephone records of the three alleged victims.

Some MSM and the local Russian Ambassador which may assist you:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/28/russian-hit-squad-put-nerve-agent-sergei-skripals-front-door/

https://news.sky.com/story/russias-novichok-programme-exists-i-worked-on-it-scientist-tells-sky-news-11300710

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/poisoned-policeman-leaves-hospital-hg0ftjgk2

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5760557/nick-bailey-detective-sergeant-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-daughter-yulia-poison-plot-leave-hospital-recovering/

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/s...93790762405888

----------


## Latindancer

Apparently the daughter is recovering somewhat. Will be interesting to hear what she has to say, if coherent.

----------


## Neverna

> Allegation or opinion? You prove it is not a fact.


FFS, you posted..




> The detective sergeant, .....
> He, allegedly, is employed by another town police force some *25 MILES AWAY. *


It is therefore an allegation according to your post. So where did you get that allegation from? Who alleges it? What is the source for that allegation/claim? Tell us or provide a link to it. Or admit that you made it up if that's what you did.

----------


## OhOh

You have raised[allegedly] an interesting[allegedly]  point. 

I will be much more discrete when posting here. Thank you for your own, the sites owners or possibly legal advice.

I suggest all posts are run past 3 Internationally renowned and eminent Singapore/Thai  lawyers by the mods and obtain the lawyer's opinion and case citations. Just to ensure they cannot be accused of posting lies and hence prosecuted for defamation of character, emotional distress ........

Put it to the owners and post their decision here for us all to see and change the character of the site.

Back to the topic of this thread.

It appears, [no confirmation available currently from an international judge], that a UK regime run MSM, [allegedly], has published, [allegedly] a news story[allegedly] on their [allegedly] site on 27th March 2018 [allegedly] the following text and video [allegedly]:

"
*Spy poisoning: Skripal niece says she would like to know how they are*

             Viktoria Skripal, the niece of the poisoned Russian spy, Sergei Skripal, told the BBC she hopes a miracle will happen. Three weeks after the nerve agent attack in Salisbury, Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia remain in a critical condition. Viktoria  Skripal is one of their closest living relatives and she spoke  exclusively to BBC Russian's Olga Ivshina in Russia about how the family  are coping.

Spy poisoning: Skripal niece says she would like to know how they are - BBC News 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 27 seconds into the interview the interviewer asks, _"If you were offered the chance to go to the UK, would you?_



At 30 seconds into the interview the niece of the attacked Russian citizen replies, _"Of course I would, I would never say no"_



At the UK court hearing the judge stated [allegedly] that there had been no enquiries by _"family"_ for permission to visit the Russian citizen or _"any other interested person"_.  [allegedly] 

One wonders [personally and in no legal way] who in the UK is required, legally, to accept such requests and have they made these facts known to anybody.

One wonders [personally and in no legal way] if the BBC can locate this [alleged} niece of the [alleged] victim of a CW attack [allegedly], the authorities called upon to act for the [alleged] victim of a CW attack, had no luck themselves in locating this, [alleged} niece of the [alleged] victim.

All these statements and images, below GOLD dashed line, the  are based on the BBC web site, as referenced above and cannot be relied on, factually, as at some point may be deleted from the UK Government managed and directed web site.

Signed this day, 31/1/2018 at 13:58 Thai Time.

หเำะไหฟๆ

----------


## Neverna

> You have raised an interesting point. 
> 
> I will be much more discrete when posting here. Thank you for your own, the sites owners or possibly legal advice.
> 
> I suggest all posts are run past 3 Internationally renowned and eminent Thai  lawyers by the mods and obtain the lawyer's opinion and case citations. Just to ensure they cannot be accused of posting lies and hence prosecuted for defamation of character, emotional distress ........
> 
> Put it to the owners and post their decision here for us all to see and change the character of the site.


^ More waffle and more deflection. 

What is the source for the 25 mile allegation/claim? Who alleges it?

----------


## bsnub

^ OhDoh exposed as a fraud again.  :Smile:  Not the first time he has been caught posting bullshit.

----------


## Neverna

I am happy that he challenges the official narrative and it's up to him if he posts bullshit sourced from others (if he posts where he actually sourced the bullshit). But when he refuses to post the source of allegations or claims that he posts, it makes it appear that the allegation/claim/bullshit comes from OhOh himself, which has the stench of lies, fake news and trolling about it.

----------


## bsnub

> I am happy that he challenges the official narrative and it's up to him if he posts bullshit sourced from others (if he posts where he actually sourced the bullshit).


Challenging the narrative is always a good thing but using as you mentioned bullshit (usually state sponsored propaganda) sources does nothing to convince most of us. It just comes down to more time wasted on his part as people tend to skip his posts/threads because of said bullshit. 






> it makes it appear that the allegation/claim/bullshit comes from OhOh himself


Then there is that.

----------


## OhOh

> It is therefore an allegation according to your post.


Are you sure? Have you obtained a legal ruling on that post?




> ^ OhDoh exposed as a fraud again





> but using as you mentioned bullshit





> fake news and trolling about it.


I suggest you both read the updated post No.602 and consider what you both are alleging against me, personally, the web site owners and possibly for anybody who desires to do so, many other instances of possibly illegal assertions.

If we are all here subjected to such behaviour, by others who have differing opinions, it may change the character of the site. In my opinion.

----------


## cyrille

> I suggest you both read the updated post No.602


Life really is far too short, and you are clearly neither enlightening nor amusing.

Since you can't do 'thought provoking' either that's pretty much a busted flush.

----------


## stroller

> Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
> _It is therefore an allegation according to your post._
> 
> Are you sure?


Absolutely:



> He, allegedly, is employed by another town police force some *25 MILES AWAY. * *
> *

----------


## bsnub

> Life really is far too short


Indeed it is.

----------


## Klondyke

Any mentioning of the alleged Skripal's intention to return back to his motherland? 

Similar as was the silly intention of the poor guy Boris Berezovsky who even allegedly provided a humble letter to his friend Putin. However, once the letter signed a rope was tied up to his golden chandelier...

----------


## stroller

Well, it is not necessary to state that the letter was "allegedly" provided to Putin, since it's a fact that it was handed over, if it was signed by Putin.

But, if something is "alleged", one might be curious who it is alleged by, to investigate further.

----------


## Troy

DS Bailey did a spell at HQ in Devises, 25 miles away. He then went back to work in Salisbury CID. The guy has worked in the police force for over 15 years, mostly in Salisbury, a city he is very familiar with.

You can put your tin foil hats back on now...

----------


## Neverna

^ Well done, Troy. If only OhOh could be as helpful. 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ripal-improves

Bailey joined the force in 2002 and he knew Salisbury city centre well, having worked there as a member of the neighbourhood policing team.

He became a detective constable and single-handedly worked on the case of Arthur Bonner, who sexually assaulted multiple victims over four decades between the early 1970s and 2014.

After Bonner was jailed for 14 years, Bailey was awarded a chief constable’s certificate of excellence. 

Bailey was transferred to Wiltshire’s force headquarters in Devizes before being moved back to Salisbury CID, where he worked on thefts, robberies and assaults.

----------


## Pragmatic

From my understanding DS Bailey supposedly came into contact with the nerve agent when he went to the Ruskies house. He never went to the park. So why is this guy being hailed as a hero. 2 other police officers attended the Ruskies at the park and it's claimed they were mildly in contact with the nerve agent when giving first aid. So why aren't they hero's? This story stinks.

----------


## OhOh

> ^ Well done, Troy. If only OhOh could be as helpful.


 A link to his source, as required in World News?





> where he *worked* on

----------


## stroller

^
Would you believe a MSM source controlled by the Jews?

----------


## Hugh Cow

> I am happy that he challenges the official narrative and it's up to him if he posts bullshit sourced from others (if he posts where he actually sourced the bullshit). But when he refuses to post the source of allegations or claims that he posts, it makes it appear that the allegation/claim/bullshit comes from OhOh himself, which has the stench of lies, fake news and trolling about it.


I agree it is good to have an alternative view point. But it should be backed up by credible sources. R.T. is about as credible as Fox news. For that matter just about any Russia based news source has been compromised by Czar Vlad.

----------


## tomcat

> R.T. is about as credible as Fox news


...rt correspondents OhOh and Friends may disagree...

----------


## Klondyke

> ...rt correspondents OhOh and Friends may disagree...





> Originally Posted by Hugh Cow 
> R.T. is about as credible as Fox news
> ...rt correspondents OhOh and Friends may disagree...


When RT claims that 1+1 = 2, I am laughing.

When BBC claims 1+1 is highly likely 3,  I take it ...

----------


## OhOh

*Moscow confronts London with 14 questions on ‘fabricated’ Skripal case*


_"Russia’s Embassy in London has sent a list of 14 questions to  the UK Foreign Ministry, demanding that it reveals details of the  investigation into the nerve-agent poisoning of former double agent  Sergei Skripal and his daughter.      
_
_The questions,  provided in full below, include a demand to clarify whether samples of  the nerve agent А-234 (also known as “Novichok”) have ever been  developed in the UK. The embassy’s statement calls the incident that  started the recent diplomatic row a “fabricated case against Russia.”


_
_1. Why has Russia been denied the right of consular access to the two Russian citizens, who came to harm on British territory?

2.  What specific antidotes and in what form were the victims injected  with? How did such antidotes come into the possession of British doctors  at the scene of the incident?

3. On what  grounds was France involved in technical cooperation in the  investigation of the incident, in which Russian citizens were injured?

4.  Did the UK notify the OPCW (Organization for the Prohibition of  Chemical Weapons) of France’s involvement in the investigation of the  Salisbury incident?

5. What does France have to do with the incident, involving two Russian citizens in the UK?

6. What rules of UK procedural legislation allow for the involvement of a foreign state in an internal investigation?

7. What evidence was handed over to France to be studied and for the investigation to be conducted?

8. Were the French experts present during the sampling of biomaterial from Sergei and Yulia Skripal?

9.  Was the study of biomaterials from Sergei and Yulia Skripal conducted  by the French experts and, if so, in which specific laboratories?

10. Does the UK have the materials involved in the investigation carried out by France?  

11. Have the results of the French investigation been presented to the OPCW Technical Secretariat?

12. Based on what attributes was the alleged “Russian origin” of the substance used in Salisbury established?

13. Does the UK have control samples of the chemical warfare agent, which British representatives refer to as “Novichok”?

14.  Have the samples of a chemical warfare agent of the same type as  “Novichok” (in accordance to British terminology) or its analogues been  developed in the UK?"

_Lots of references to France. To convince them to eject Russian diplomats? To spotlight French actions in Syria? To highlight the UK "sharing" information on a CWA with a foreign Government?

Original RFM post available here, along with English, German, French, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese and a version of Arabic. No Thai I am afraid.

http://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/...ent/id/3150139

https://www.rt.com/news/422871-russia-questions-uk-skripal-case/

----------


## Pragmatic

> 1. Why has Russia been denied the right of consular access to the two Russian citizens


Is he Russian?




> He is a British citizen.[8] Shortly after the poisoning incident, Russian officials said they had no information as to Sergei Skripals nationality;[9][10] however, on 21 March 2018 Russian ambassador to the UK Alexander Yakovenko said that Sergei Skripal is also a Russian citizen.[11][12][7] On March 29, Yulia was reported to be out of critical condition, 'conscious and talking'.[13]

----------


## bsnub

^ I have a feeling the last person he would want to see would be a Russian consular.

----------


## OhOh

> Is he Russian?


I suggest with a name like Sergei Skripal he might be. Whether he has been given/earned enough "points" and "awarded" any other citizenship, which may necessitate abandoning his original, I don't know. 

Possibly the UK/ameristani or Russian Embassy might answer the question for you. here is the Russian's Bangkok Embassy link.

Russian Embassy in Bangkok Thailand

Possible once/if his niece receives a UK visa she might be allowed into the Salisbury hospital ward or the Porton Down cell, he currently occupies.

----------


## Pragmatic

> I suggest with a name like Sergei Skripal he might be.


A name proves fcuk all about nationality.

----------


## Klondyke

*Bad chemistry? Walter Litvinenko, father of Alexander Litvinenko.*
Published time: 1 Apr, 2018

The British authorities explicitly cite the poisoning of former FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko in London as circumstantial evidence in the Skripal case. The Russians did it before, they will do it again  that's the essence of the UK's allegations against Moscow. But doesn't London itself have the capability, the intent and the motive for this kind of national character assassination? To discuss this, Oksana is joined by Walter Litvinenko, father of Alexander Litvinenko.

https://www.rt.com/shows/worlds-apar...idence-moscow/

----------


## Dragonfly

as PM May is a clueless fool, as clearly demonstrated with her "ability" to negotiate and understand agreement deals such as the Brexit,

it wouldn't surprise she got completely manipulated by her own intelligence services,

she wouldn't know what evidence is even if it was a giant cock filling her whole mouth,

she is a fraud, so typically British

----------


## lom

> she wouldn't know what evidence is even if it was a giant cock filling her whole mouth


We think they did it before + We don't know anyone else who could have done it = Highly likely

Highly likely + The Russkis didn't give an explanation within stipulated time = Evidence that they did it

. .
 .

----------


## Albert Shagnasty2017

The only numpties that think the Russians did this are either brainwashed yanks like bsnub and tomcat or their apologists.

Anyone with a functioning brain can see that the "blame Russia" propaganda from most western media outlets is a desperate attempt to start shit with Russia, to take the focus off of the false flag that is ISIS or any other such diversion.

Smoke n mirrors folks, smoke n mirrors  ::chitown::

----------


## Neo

I see harry is giving the story a wide berth now, trying to claw back a bit of credibility after making such an idiot of himself  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Dragonfly

> The only numpties that think the Russians did this are either brainwashed yanks like bsnub and tomcat or their apologists.
> 
> Anyone with a functioning brain can see that the "blame Russia" propaganda from most western media outlets is a desperate attempt to start shit with Russia, to take the focus off of the false flag that is ISIS or any other such diversion.
> 
> Smoke n mirrors folks, smoke n mirrors


this is actually the worst part of it all,

we have become worst than the Pravda in the 80s,

our governments have become big fooking jokes 1984 style, and the usual "ordinary" people are too afraid to think otherwise

----------


## Dragonfly

> I see harry is giving the story a wide berth now, trying to claw back a bit of credibility after making such an idiot of himself


harry always make a fool of himself while pretending to be serious and credible,

he is all posture, a lot like his favorite PM May actually  :Smile:

----------


## bsnub

> The only numpties that think the Russians did this are either brainwashed yanks like bsnub and tomcat or their apologists.


The only people who are brainwashed are you imbeciles who read and quote sources like RT, sputnik and infowars. You have been hoodwinked and are being used as useful idiots to spread nonsensical conspiracy theories. Fucking same types of lemmings that voted for Trump thinking he was going to drain the swamp.

----------


## Pragmatic

> The Russkis didn't give an explanation within stipulated time = Evidence that they did it


 Sometimes things so ridiculous aren't worth responding to.




> Igor Sutyagin, who spent time in a Russian labour camp with Skripal and was part of the 2010 spy swap which freed them both, told _The Guardian_“this is the worse [sic] possible time” and questioned any Kremlin involvement.


How come the US and the UK can't agree?




> US agents suspect 14 deaths to have involved Russia, yet the UK authorities do not consider them to have been suspicious.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...uncomfortable/

----------


## sabang

> The only people who are brainwashed


Are those who jump to conclusions based on hearsay & innuendo. Plenty on both sides.

No proof or even hard evidence has been produced to show us "whodunnit", the diplomatic expulsions do not change that fact one iota, therefore rational & objective minds should remain open. There are several possibilities.

----------


## cyrille

Right.

So what are they then?

Shall we start with a boy scouts splinter group?

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Oh and brown people, obviously.

----------


## Hugh Cow

Close it was a secret Jihadi cell in the British Islamic Girl guides Association.

----------


## Norton

> So what are they then?


Kim Jong-Un done it same way he done his brother Kim Jong-Nam at airport in Malaysia. Case closed.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Kim Jong-Un done it same way he done his brother Kim Jong-Nam at airport in Malaysia. Case closed.


As an active member of the TD CSI team I have to disagree Mr Norton. Everything points to the good ol' US of A who did both murders.



> US agents suspect 14 deaths to have involved Russia, yet the UK authorities do not consider them to have been suspicious.


Can anyone explain why, in both cases, no other persons were contaminated? Please read the link concerning Kim Jong Nam.




> *THE DUBIOUS STORY OF THE MURDER OF KIM JONG NAM*


 https://mltoday.com/the-dubious-stor...im-jong-nam-2/

Edit: When Kim Jong Nam was allegedly attacked he was carrying 12 Vials of nerve agent antidote. Why, as a first reaction to this attack, didn't he inject himself with the antidote?

----------


## OhOh

> I see harry is giving the story a wide berth now


'arry has opinions. Some are valid others I argue, are not. Generally his posts I understand but can, if bothered, offer alternatives. That is what happens on this forum.




> harry always make a fool of himself


We all do some occasionally, others with every post they make




> You have been hoodwinked and are being used as useful idiots


Here is an example whose mind is the size of a gnats and should argue his point as opposed to just amplifying his ignorance.




> Are those who jump to conclusions based on hearsay & innuendo. Plenty on both sides.


Agreed.




> Kim Jong-Un done it same way he done his brother Kim Jong-Nam at airport in Malaysia.


Proven in a court of law, or just "published" as a "fact" and disappear from the news cycle

You may admire the Russian Government for wanting a truly thorough investigation. But then they do seem to fear nothing may come of it. The others seem to ignore international and local laws willy nilly, evidence etc. and come to the sentencing part prematurely.

Here is another example of the Russian Foreign Ministry "requesting" clarification/verification from the OPCW:

http://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/...nguageId=en_GB




> Everything points to the good ol' US of A who did both murders.


Quite likely but not always. ameristani leaders have a great deal of previous, so shit sticks very easily. 

The results might amaze us, the French have some fingers pointing at them. They've never forgiven Albion since Agincourt.




https://www.britishbattles.com/one-hundred-years-war/battle-of-agincourt/


 There are many with an axe to grind with the UK.

----------


## OhOh

> As an active member of the TD CSI team I have to disagree Mr Norton.


We may not be called. It appears fox "news" has solved this event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_co...&v=sIdXvzST6jw

----------


## Begbie



----------


## TuskegeeBen

No surprise, about those historically contentious, renown trouble-making blokes of the world. *Indeed*, they have pompously succeeded at placing both feet into their own arrogant "know-it-all" mouths, this time around. *eh*?  ::chitown::

----------


## Klondyke

How all this obvious idiocy will end?

----------


## OhOh

Hang on, a week or so ago it was stated in a court document that Porton Down scientists had identified the alleged CW as "novichok or something similar". See previous posts here on this thread.

Now the allegation has changed to:

_"We were able to identify it as Novichok, to  identify that it was military-grade nerve agent," Gary Aitkenhead, chief  executive of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton  Down in England, told Sky News. 
_
_"We have not identified the precise  source, but we have provided the scientific info to government who have  then used a number of other sources to piece together the conclusions  you have come to." 

                                                              However, he confirmed the substance  required "extremely sophisticated methods to create, something only in  the capabilities of a state actor". 

                                                                                                           He added: "we are  continuing to work to help to provide additional information that might  help us get closer to [the source] but we haven't yet been able to do  that." 

A "government sources" states:

"A government spokesperson said on Tuesday: "We  have been clear from the very beginning that our world leading experts  at Porton Down identified the substance used in Salisbury as a Novichok,  a military grade nerve agent._ _

                                                                                                           "This is only one part of  the intelligence picture. As the Prime Minister (Theresa May) has set  out ... this includes our knowledge that within the last decade, Russia  has investigated ways of delivering nerve agents probably for  assassination – and as part of this programme has produced and  stockpiled small quantities of Novichoks; Russia’s record of conducting  state-sponsored assassinations; and our assessment that Russia views  former intelligence officers as targets." 

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1HA1Y9

_Queries to be answered from our "security experts here" or others with some substance to add.

1. Novichok is a general term created by a Russian defector in a book available worldwide. What actual CW has been identified by the "world leading experts"?

2. For Porton Down to have "identified" the actual CW it must have copies to compare it against. Where and when were these obtained from or when did Porton Down create their own CW and tested to ensure they worked?

3. Will the "secretor other sources" information be disclosed and if so where and when_?

_4. Does Porton Down have a list of the possible countries with the "capabilities" to produce, test and deploy this unknown CW?If so will the UK, along with all the other countries remove a similar number of diplomats from those countries, accuse their leaders of being a new Hitler and accuse them of waging war on the UK?The UK has a history of lying, the UK has a history of holding secret courts and announcing a verdict with no facts being made public . We await the public court case and proven facts to be made available, otherwise we have the usual "sexing up" scenario from a UK government.

Nothing has changed. Or is this more fake MSM?

----------


## Begbie

> *Porton Down lab admits it has not been able to prove Russia made nerve agent used in Salisbury spy attack*
> 
> It was identified as weapons grade novichok, but they couldn't tell where it came from



https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...mpression=true

----------


## Neo

The Porton Down boss showing by distancing himself from responsibility just how far the UK and US politicians are prepared to take this to satisfy their weapons industry masters.

----------


## Klondyke

*Russia calls for urgent meeting at OPCW:*

NOTE BY THE DIRECTOR-GENERAL 

REQUEST BY THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION 
 TO CONVENE A MEETING OF THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL 

1. The Chairperson of the Executive Council, His Excellency Ambassador Sheikh 
Mohammed Belal of Bangladesh, has received a request by the Permanent 
Representative of the Russian Federation to the OPCW, to convene a meeting of the 
Executive Council (hereinafter “the Council”) under Rule 12 of the Rules of 
Procedure of the Council. 

2. The meeting of the Council will be held at 10:00 on Wednesday, 4 April 2018, in the 
Ieper Room of the OPCW Headquarters building (Johan de Wittlaan 32, The Hague). 

3. A copy of the letter from the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to 
the Chairperson of the Council is annexed hereto. 


Annex (English only): 

Letter from the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation to the Chairperson of the 
Executive Council, dated 29 March 2018 

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/...ecm5701_e_.pdf

----------


## OhOh

An interview with the ex UK Ambassador for Uzbekistan. The country where one of the Soviet Union's CW testing facilities was situated.  The facility subsequently was closed down, sanitizes and all equipment and research documents taken home by the ameristani authorities.

He discusses today's announcement by the CEO of Porton Down that, Porton Down cannot identify who produced, this remarkably inefficient, weapon of mass destruction.

----------


## Pragmatic

> _"We were able to identify it as Novichok, to identify that it was military-grade nerve agent,"_


 Is there such a thing as 'commercial grade' nerve agent?

----------


## david44

Possibly the only upside will be the end of BloJo , which could of course have been the motive.

----------


## OhOh

> Is there such a thing as 'commercial grade' nerve agent?


Common pesticides or herbicides are commercial grade "chemical weapons".

A link to the video of the Porton Down announcement.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/981190172925616128

One hopes the CEO doesn't take evening walks in the countryside.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Common pesticides or herbicides are commercial grade "chemical weapons".


 Right, now I understand thank you.

----------


## Albert Shagnasty2017

> Possibly the only upside will be the end of BloJo , which could of course have been the motive.


A filthy duplicitous Judas-like (Blair-like) [at][at][at][at]. Yes, let's hope it's the end of him.

----------


## Albert Shagnasty2017

As an Englishman, I'm utterly ashamed of how my country has become an American  satelite. Theresa's and Boris's reactions have been utterly dictated by the great devil - the US. As have our internal national policies. All our current problems stem from the US. Like the rest of the world, we suffer due to the evil policies of the US government. Time for the whole world to rid itself of these evil and manipulative cvnts.

----------


## Klondyke

*Russian spy's daughter Yulia Skripal was poisoned 'days after gaining access to a secret £150,000 bank account belonging to her dead brother'*

The money belonged to Yulia's brother who died in mysterious circumstances
She was given power of attorney over the cash from her father Sergei Skripal

Yulia Skripal was poisoned with a nerve agent just days after gaining access to a £150,000 'secret bank account' with proceeds from a house sale in Britain, it has emerged.

The money had belonged to her brother Alexander who died in mysterious circumstances in St Petersburg last year.
She had been given power of attorney over the cash in late February from her father, double agent Sergei Skripal, poisoned by nerve agent Novichok alongside her on March 4 in Salisbury.

The cash - now in an unknown Russian bank - was from the sale of the house he had shared in Britain with his ex-wife, Natalia, like Yulia, 33, the daughter of a GRU military intelligence colonel.

Natalia - now married to a tennis coach from Wales - sold the house, and paid half the sum to her ex-husband.
The 'secret bank account' was disclosed by Sergei's niece Viktoria Skripal, 45, who aims this week to travel to meet Yulia in hospital in Salisbury.

The British authorities are preparing to grant her a visa so that she can become the first family member to meet Yulia, and also see her uncle Sergei, who remains in a coma.

Of Yulia's current condition, she said: 'The only thing I discovered from our (Russian) diplomats is that Yulia has opened her eyes, can eat, drink and has even said a few words.'

She and other family members have not yet spoken to her by phone or social media.
On the money she said: 'Nobody knows this yet.

Read more: Yulia Skripal poisoned after gaining access to secret bank account | Daily Mail Online

----------


## tomcat

> the great devil


...*_tsk_*...the formal designation is Great Satan...

----------


## Klondyke

*Britains Boris Johnson accused of misleading public over Skripal poisoning evidence*

Britain's top military laboratory said Tuesday that it cannot verify the nerve agent in the March 4 poisoning came from Russia.

Gary Aitkenhead, chief executive of the Defense Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, told Sky News that although the substance used in the attack had been identified as Novichok  a class of chemical weapons developed in the former Soviet Union and Russia  it was not clear whether it had been made in Russia.

We have not identified the precise source, Aitkenhead said, though he added creating such a substance was probably only in the capabilities of a state actor.

These comments appear to contradict remarks Johnson made in an interview with German broadcaster Deutsche Welle on March 20. Asked how the British government could be so sure Russia was behind the attack, Johnson deferred to the people from Porton Down, who he said were absolutely categorical.

Diane Abbott of the opposition Labour Party called on Johnson to explain the apparent discrepancy. It seems Boris Johnson misled the public when he claimed that Porton Down officials confirmed to him that Russia was the source of the nerve agent used in the Salisbury attack, Abbot said in a statement Wednesday.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn later told reporters Johnson had egg on his face and that he needs to answer some questions.

Supporters of the government's position say it was never Porton Down's responsibility to determine the precise source of the nerve agent used against the Skripals. The British government released a statement Tuesday that said Aitkenhead's comments did not contradict the official line on the poisoning.

In a tweet on Tuesday, Porton Down reiterated this: Our experts have precisely identified the nerve agent as a Novichok. It is not, and has never been, our responsibility to confirm the source of the agent.

Johnson also responded Wednesday with tweets explaining his position, one of which said, Corbyn is now playing Russias game and trying to discredit the UK over Salisbury attack.

However, Johnson's comments to Deutsche Welle struck many in Britain as too ambiguous. Public opinion of the top British diplomat is mixed in Britain, in part because of his backing of Brexit ahead of Britain's vote to leave the European Union in 2016. As a journalist and frequent talk show guest before that, he was seen by many critics as using a bumbling demeanor to mask a loose grip on facts.

Serial liar Boris Johnson caught lying again? Kevin Maguire, an editor at the left-wing Daily Mirror, wrote on Twitter.

British journalists also noticed Wednesday the Foreign Office had deleted a March 22 tweet that said Porton Down had concluded the nerve agent used in the attack was produced in Russia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.87db8ad7dcc9

----------


## Dragonfly

Boris Johnson manipulating and deceiving the public, now could that be ?

never did such a thing before, not even with Brexit  :Smile: 

what a little turd that fat idiot has become, a complete disgrace, another overly ambitious power crazy politician ready to do anything to be the next PM

maybe the plan was to destabilize May with the Russian dossier, to have her replaced for lack of hard reaction

that obviously failed !!!

----------


## Begbie

^^Accused implies some doubt, however Boris lie was recorded. There is no doubt that he lied about the Porton Down results.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Boris Johnson manipulating and deceiving the public


 He's a politician it's his job.

----------


## Klondyke

He tweeted:
"28 other countries have been so convinced by UK case they have expelled Russians."

Convinced by arm twisting?

----------


## Klondyke

*Russian spy: Moscow bid for joint poisoning inquiry fails at OPCW*

Britain earlier said Russia's call for an inquiry with the UK was "perverse".

Russia lost the vote by 15 votes to six, while 17 member states abstained.
China, Azerbaijan, Sudan, Algeria and Iran were among the countries that backed Russia's motion at the OPCW executive council, Reuters reported.

Russian spy: Moscow bid for joint poisoning inquiry fails at OPCW - BBC News

What court in the world would start the inquiry only after the judgement was issued? 
Only such one "perverse"...

----------


## Dragonfly

what is really perverse here is the UK PM and her political click with her obese toyboy, Boris

----------


## Klondyke

*UK locates source of novichok nerve agent used in Salisbury*
Security services pinpoint secret Russian lab

Security services believe that they have pinpointed the location of the covert Russian laboratory that manufactured the weapons-grade nerve agent used in Salisbury, The Times has learnt.

Ministers and security officials were able to identify the source using scientific analysis and intelligence in the days after the attempted murder of Sergei and Yulia Skripal a month ago, according to security sources.

Britain knew about the existence of the facility where the novichok poison was made before the attack on March 4, it is understood. A Whitehall source added: “We knew pretty much by the time of the first Cobra [the emergency co-ordination briefing that took place the same week] that it was overwhelmingly likely to come from Russia.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...gent-nx8p39kqv

----------


## Neo

How convenient... Will they release details or is it simply enough that we know they know..?  ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

> He tweeted:
> "28 other countries have been so convinced by UK case they have expelled Russians."
> 
> Convinced by arm twisting?


When one announces to ones friends. "We have a "stockpile" of this, holding up a phial of colourless liquid. It would be unfortunate if "anybody" in your country "accidentally" obtained samples. Wouldn't it?". Those who have their own stockpiles may smile. Those without would shout, "Yes, mistress, anything you say mistress" what and where do we sign?" No?




> UK locates source of novichok nerve agent used in Salisbury
> Security services pinpoint secret Russian lab


From a brief search I have found two items which suggest, to me, the statement is a lie. As more knowledgable chemists have suggested, the info below and an intelligent student of chemistry, would be sufficient.

1. A public list of the 12+ countries that are approved labs by the OPCW which would be able to produce the chemical weapons. (Slide 14 of 18)

https://www.unog.ch/80256EDD006B8954...nated_labs.pdf

2. A public paper illustrating the methods of production of chemicals, the lab equipment required for production, the lab equipment required for analysis/confirmation of the produced  chemical and a list of companies from which the necessary chemicals can be purchased.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/rcm.7757

There are of course those countries who are not signers to the OPCW conventions, those that have not been inspected and those that are signers but have yet to be cleared by the OPCW. In addition any country could have a secret lab or as some do, "outsource" the possibly illegal work , to one of their vassals. 

As we have seen, here in this thread, documentation exists between ameristan and one vassal, UK, for such purposes.

So potentially all the worlds countries could, if they so desired or were subjected to threats, produce the CWs. Those within the Crusader Coalition, those outside the Crusader Coalition and those who could be utilised or persuaded by either.

Thus 200 - 260 countries could have produced these CWs.

Court adjourned, Mr. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, please come to my chambers for consultation immediately.

Court adjourned until tomorrow.

----------


## OhOh

> How convenient... Will they release details


As 'arry would "suggest", "It's top secret, comrade".

----------


## OhOh

A longer more detailed version of the PD CEO video. The gist is reporting their past work on the incident along with their ongoing work utilising other "sources" input. He also recognises that the MET Police are the organisation who should be asked for the comprehensive investigation.

In other words they are the sole UK agency with the very experienced chemists, we have the advanced equipment, we can compare our analysis with the OPCW data base..... but cannot comment on what the "other sources" have provided PD to assist our analysis.. 

Available here:

https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury...laims-11316209

----------


## tomcat

...quite the echo chamber in here...

----------


## Cujo

Security minister refuses to share sensitive information with comrade Corbyn.
Says comrade Corbyn is entitled to jump up and down and stamp his feet all he likes, it doesn't change the fact that he is still only the leader of the opposition. 
Says it is beyond reasonable doubt that Russians are behind poisoning. 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...n-intelligence

----------


## OhOh

Here are the speeches by the UNSC members on the Salisbury Incident held on the 14th March:

Nothing particularly new.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/sc13247.doc.htm

----------


## Neo

> The Times claimed Britain knew about the existence of the facility where the novichok was made before the attack on 4 March, and had a high degree of certainty that the nerve agent was manufactured there.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...n-intelligence

So.. British intelligence knew of a facility, presumably on British soil, that could produce deadly nerve agents... and did nothing about it. 

*ponders whether to use 'scratch chin' or 'laugh out loud' smilie*

----------


## Neo

> A functional British press would have investigated whether our foreign secretary may have lied to the world about the activities of another country, but alas the media’s leading lights were too busy implying Jeremy Corbyn’s attempts at urging caution were evidence of some kind of fervent lack of patriotism.


https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...on-down-russia

----------


## Neo

and before the peanut gallery start moaning.. Cujo posted the link, he's just not smart enough to get beyond the headlines 



> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...n-intelligence

----------


## OhOh

> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...gent-nx8p39kqv


The original story of the link has been deleted and replaced with a report on the Russian Ambassador's press conference from last night.

One wonders why the substitution, legal proceedings, a change of tack by the UK clique ........

A link to yesterday's UNSC meeting on the Salisbury Speculations:

http://webtv.un.org/meetings-events/security-council/


A link to a snippet of the Russian Ambassador to UK's public press conference held in London yesterday. 

Answering a question of how Russia can explain the "worlds" condemnation as expressed by the OPCW vote on access to the investigation by Russia. He explains that the clique that denied access was a very small portion of the world's population, mainly NATO and EU countries.

The OPCW majority did not follow the UK and ameristan gross overkill in turns of numbers. He also points out that the OPCW members only managed to gather a few of it's western vassals to agree with the UK position and that no country from South America, Africa and Asia voted in favour of the UK position. 

The numbers of people living in South America, Africa and Asia far outnumbers the western clique's population and as such are the real world opinion.

https://ruptly.tv/vod/20180405-014


*Intel withheld from Corbyn, but Tory press awash with anonymous sources over Skripal poisoning*


_"The day after the UK government was left red-faced over its rush  to blame Russia for the poisoning of an ex-double agent, ‘evidence’ is  now being leaked to the press, left, right and center.      

__Prime Minister Theresa  May’s security minister has defended the decision not to fully share  intelligence over the investigation into the poisoning of Sergei and  Yulia Skripal with, among others, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.

_
_Security minister Ben Wallace MP said the “circle” of those with access to highly sensitive information should be restricted.  “He is the leader of the opposition; he is not the government. He  doesn’t have the duty or the responsibility of protecting at the moment –  and I hope he never does – the security of this country,” he told BBC radio."

................

"Even Russian Ambassador to the UK Alexander Yakovenko revealed the  embassy in London is learning of developments through the press.

_
_The government says it is being careful with sharing information. Yet, the day after it suffered huge embarrassment, “sources” are everywhere."

https://www.rt.com/uk/423307-governm...-links-russia/
_

----------


## OhOh

Case closed evidence found in Salisbury:



 :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic



----------


## PAG



----------


## Dragonfly

anonymous source ? isn't that the code name for Mossad fed propaganda ?  :Smile:

----------


## Begbie

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/knobs-and-knockers/

A decent summary of the current state of this case from Craig Murray. The following are the introductory paragraphs. I suggest you read the whole article as he debunks the door handle  poisoning claim at length on a number of valid points. 
...........................


What is left of the government’s definitive identification of Russia as the culprit in the Salisbury attack? It is a simple truth that Russia is not the only state that could have made the nerve agent: dozens of them could. It could also have been made by many non-state actors. 

Motorola sales agent Gary Aitkenhead – inexplicably since January, Chief Executive of Porton Down chemical weapons establishment – said in his Sky interview that “probably” only a state actor could create the nerve agent. That is to admit the possibility that a non state actor could. David Collum, Professor of Organo-Chemistry at Cornell University, infinitely more qualified than a Motorola salesman, has stated that his senior students could do it.

----------


## Dragonfly

The Moto sales guy is probably a former intelligent officer, retired to commercial activities

----------


## OhOh

Allegedly a recording of the lady who was poisoned with a"military grade chemical weapon, lethal in seconds, from Russia". As you can imagine the recording played by a Russian TV station, translated into english by who knows who, and re-broadcast by the clique government funded BBC is being questioned. But here it is:

"
*Transcript of recorded conversation*

_The  hosts of the 60 Minute show on state-owned Rossiya 1 - Yevgeny Popov  and Olga Skabeyeva - said they were unable to confirm the authenticity  of the phone call.
_
_Viktoria: Hello?
_
_"Yulia": Hello. Can you hear me?
_
_Viktoria: Yes, I can hear you.
_
_"Yulia": It is Yulia Skripal._
_Viktoria:  Oh, Yulka [diminutive of Yulia] it's you! I can tell it's you from your  voice but I don't understand. So, they gave you a telephone, did they?_
_"Yulia": Yes, yes.
_
_Viktoria: Thanks God! Yulyasha [diminutive of Yulia], is everything okay?_ 
_"Yulia": Everything's ok, everything's fine._
_Viktoria: Look, if tomorrow I get a [British] visa, I'll come to you on Monday._
_"Yulia": Vika, no-one will give you a visa.
_
_Viktoria: Well I thought so too. Oh well._

_"Yulia": Most likely._
_Viktoria: If they do, I need you to tell me whether I can visit you or not, tell me that I can.
_
_"Yulia": I don't think so, that's the situation at the moment, we'll sort it out later._
_Viktoria: I know, I know.
_
_"Yulia": Later, we'll get it sorted later, everything's fine, we'll see later._
_Viktoria: Is that your phone?_ 
_"Yulia":  It's a temporary phone. Everything's fine, but we'll see how it goes,  we'll decide later. You know what the situation is here. Everything is  fine, everything is solvable, everyone is recovering and is alive._
_Viktoria: Understood. Is everything ok with your dad?_
_"Yulia":  Everything's ok. He's resting now, having a sleep. Everyone's health is  fine, there's nothing that can't be put right. I'll be discharged soon.  Everything is ok._
_Viktoria: Kisses, babes._
_"Yulia": Bye._
_The recording was reportedly made on the morning of 5 April"

Russian spy poisoning: Yulia Skripal 'getting stronger daily' - BBC News
_

----------


## Pragmatic

So another 2 recover from what can be only regarded as a lethal dose of nerve agent. I find that unbelievable.

----------


## Neverna

> anonymous source ? isn't that the code name for Mossad fed propaganda ?


and Cambridge Analytica and ....

----------


## stroller

George Soros?

----------


## lom

The Illuminati..

----------


## Wilsonandson

*Spy poisoning: Russia says UK is 'playing with fire'*



Media captionMoscow's UN ambassador Vasily Nebenzia: "You are playing with fire and you will be sorry"*Russia has accused the UK of inventing a "fake story" and "playing with fire" over the Salisbury spy poisoning.*
At a UN Security Council meeting, Moscow's UN ambassador Vasily Nebenzia said Britain's main goal had been "to discredit and even delegitimise" Russia with "unsubstantiated accusations".
The UK says Russia is behind the attack but Moscow denies responsibility.
Britain's UN representative Karen Pierce said the UK's actions "stand up to any scrutiny".
She likened Moscow's requests to take part in the investigation to an arsonist investigating his own fire.


Russian spy: What we know so farYulia Skripal 'getting stronger daily'Sergei Skripal: Who is the former Russian colonel?Russian tensions with West 'worse than Cold War'
Russian former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were found unconscious in Salisbury on 4 March.
Ms Skripal, 33, is recovering in hospital and has released a statement saying her "strength is growing daily".
Her father, 66, remains critically ill but stable.
Meanwhile it has emerged that when police sealed off Mr Skripal's home at the start of the investigation. there were two guinea pigs and a cat inside. The BBC understands the guinea pigs died of starvation and the cat, distressed from dehydration, was put down.
*'Propaganda war'*

Moscow called the special meeting of the Security Council in New York to discuss the attack, saying Britain had "legitimate questions" to answer.
Mr Nebenzia said the accusations were "horrific and unsubstantiated", and claimed the UK was waging a "propaganda war" against Russia.
He said Novichok - the group of nerve agent used in the poisoning - is "not copyrighted by Russia, in spite of the obviously Russian name" and has been developed in many countries.
"It's some sort of theatre of the absurd. Couldn't you come up with a better fake story?" he asked.
In his statement to the 15-member council, Mr Nebenzia questioned why Russia would eliminate someone using a "dangerous and highly public" method.
He contrasted the use of a chemical with the "hundreds of clever ways of killing someone" shown in British series Midsomer Murders.



Sergei Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, remain in hospital

Responding, the British Ambassador to the UN, Karen Pierce, accused Russia of seeking to "undermine the international institutions that have kept us safe since the Second World War".
She said Russia came under suspicion for several reasons, saying it had "a record of conducting state-sponsored assassinations" and that it "views defectors as suitable targets for assassination".
Ms Pierce told delegates that Russia's request to visit Ms Skripal had been passed on and "we await her response".
"Ms Skripal's own wishes need to be taken into account," Ms Pierce added.
*'Unprecedented'*

On Friday, former foreign secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that Russia's comments were a "classic Russian attempt to obfuscate".
He said: "They are in a very serious position because it's not just the UK that has taken action against them. In an unprecedented way, that did not even happen in the Cold War, 29 countries have withdrawn their diplomats."
He also said the UK had shared "highly classified information" with the other countries which was also "unprecedented".
Meanwhile, US representative Kelley Currie said Russia was attempting to use the Security Council "for political gains", adding: "This is not a tactic that is appropriate for this body."
It comes amid an escalating diplomatic crisis between Moscow and the West as 60 expelled US envoys left Russia on Thursday.



Russian news channel airs Yulia Skripal hospital 'recording

'More than 20 countries have expelled Russian envoys in solidarity with the UK, following Britain's initial expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats.
The UK government has constantly maintained Russia was behind the attack, claiming there is "no other plausible explanation".

Chemical weapons expert Hamish De Bretton Gordon said he had seen some of the intelligence in the Skripals' case and was "100% sure" Russia was responsible.
He told BBC Radio 5 live "we know almost 100%" that Novichok, which requires a "sophisticated laboratory, a lot of money, resources and expertise to make", was made at Shikhany, a military facility "the size of Salisbury" in central Russia, and the agent used in the attack on the Skripals was "military grade".
He added: "We are talking a tiny amount [of Novichok], a quarter of an egg cup full which would be very easy to smuggle."

*'Against transparency'*

On Wednesday, Russia proposed a joint investigation into the poisoning but the idea was voted down by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.
In a press conference, Russian ambassador to the UK, Alexander Yakovenko, said it marked a vote against "transparency".
Meanwhile on Thursday, in a statement issued through UK police, Ms Skripal thanked those who came to her and her father's aid.
It came shortly after Russian TV aired a recording of an alleged phone conversation between Ms Skripal and her cousin.
Doubts were raised over the authenticity of the recording but the cousin, Viktoria, has told Newsnight she is 100% certain it was Yulia.

Spy poisoning: Russia says UK is 'playing with fire' - BBC News

----------


## Wilsonandson

Infowars

----------


## Klondyke

I do not believe that they will not find something "really convincing". After such huge action and after so many money spent - and when so much is in stake? 
Some kind of "dossier" will surely come up...

----------


## Begbie

*Russian spy poisoning: Sergei Skripal 'improving rapidly'**Russian former spy Sergei Skripal is no longer in a critical condition after being poisoned by a nerve agent, doctors have said.*
Salisbury District Hospital said Mr Skripal is responding well to treatment and "improving rapidly".
Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, have been in hospital for more than a month after being found unconscious on a bench in Salisbury.
They had been poisoned with a toxic nerve agent called Novichok.
Ms Skripal is conscious and talking in hospital.

Russian spy poisoning: Sergei Skripal 'improving rapidly' - BBC News

----------


## david44

The dead Moggy will rile the pussy lovers

*named* Nash Van Drake

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sergei-skripal-pets-cat-guinea-pigs-died_us_5ac7918fe4b07a3485e411f0

After the death of the animals was confirmed, the Russian embassy in London said their value as pieces of evidence had been ignored. "Such treatment of pets is also hardly consistent with UK laws on animal cruelty and comes as a blatant disregard to Mr Skripal's rights as the owner and companion of the animals," the embassy said, claiming a second cat was still missing.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/06/europe/sergei-skripal-cat-guinea-pigs-dead-intl/index.html

Be afraid , tip top International SFB have so far erased 

Pussy and a brace of gerbils.

At least no one is talkinabout Yemen or Palestine , Royhingha or human rights in Cuba Thailand or Slovakia

----------


## Dragonfly

so it's was another sexed up dossier after all, like the one under Tony Blair

they never learn,

----------


## Klondyke

> Viktoria: Look, if tomorrow I get a [British] visa, I'll come to you on Monday.
> "Yulia": Vika, no-one will give you a visa.


She was right, the visa denied...

----------


## lom

> *Russian spy poisoning: Sergei Skripal 'improving rapidly'*
> 
> *Russian former spy Sergei Skripal is no longer in a critical condition after being poisoned by a nerve agent, doctors have said.*
> Salisbury District Hospital said Mr Skripal is responding well to treatment and "improving rapidly".
> Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, have been in hospital for more than a month after being found unconscious on a bench in Salisbury.
> They had been poisoned with a toxic nerve agent called Novichok.
> Ms Skripal is conscious and talking in hospital.
> 
> Russian spy poisoning: Sergei Skripal 'improving rapidly' - BBC News


Oh, so Novichoc isn't deadly toxic after all.

----------


## Klondyke

> May has already received strong support from key European leaders and the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), the body responsible for the control of chemical weapons.


How such a "strong support" works:
*
'I give you 24 hours to resign': 1st OPCW chief on how John Bolton bullied him before Iraq War*
  7 April 2018

The first OPCW chief, who tried to bring Iraq and Libya into the organization, told RT how US foreign policy hawk John Bolton threatened him over his refusal to resign prior to the 2003 Iraq War.

Jose Bustani, the first director-general of the global chemical weapons watchdog Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), sat down with RT and revealed how John Bolton, a Bush-era official and now Donald Trump's pick for National Security Adviser, bulldozed the way for the 2003 Iraq invasion.

Bustani, a Brazilian diplomat, led the organization from 1997 until 2002, when he was ousted after falling out of favor with the US. At the time, he was trying to convince Iraq and Libya to join the organization, meaning that the two countries would have been obliged to dispose of all chemical weapons if they had any.

He said that according to reliable intelligence he had as director-general, "it was obvious that during the first Iraq War everything had been destroyed [by Iraq]," and there was "nothing left for Iraq to be accused of possessing chemical weapons."

"I got a phone call from John Bolton  it was first time I had contact with him  and he said he had instructions to tell me that I have to resign from the organization, and I asked him why," Bustani told RT. "He said that [my] management style was not agreeable to Washington."

He resolutely refused to resign, only to see Bolton again at OPCW headquarters in The Hague several weeks after the phone conversation. "He came to my office and said: 'You have to resign and I give you 24 hours, this is what we want. You have to leave, you have to resign from your organization, director-general.'"

On April 21, 2002, a special meeting was finally held in The Hague, and Bustani's removal was carried out by a vote of 487, with 43 abstentions. The diplomat said those who abstained were from developing countries, and that his own government in Brazil "left me behind."

https://www.rt.com/usa/423477-bolton-threat-opcw-iraq/

----------


## Klondyke

> So Boris Johnson has announced that a sample will be given to the OPCW.
> 
> Of course Russia will then say that the OPCW are the liars.


It's good to know who to believe to and who not to...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It's good to know who to believe to and who not to...


But you're one of these dopey c u n t s that think the sun shines out of Putin's arse of course.

----------


## harrybarracuda

So after stonewalling and blustering for weeks, now the Russians are demanding a meeting with Britain.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Klondyke

^Wondering what more clever you can enlighten us?

----------


## Dragonfly

> ^Wondering what more clever you can enlighten us?


 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^Wondering what more clever you can enlighten us?


It would make more sense if you replied


"Naaawwww speaaaky Eeeeenglis".

----------


## Klondyke

> It would make more sense if you replied
> 
> "Naaawwww speaaaky Eeeeenglis".


^Wondering what anything else you confide to us?

----------


## Begbie

Im surprised that Harry has stuck his head over the parapet after being so wrong on nearly every aspect of this case. Could it be because he has access to confidential government documents? 

Naaw  :smiley laughing:

----------


## OhOh

> Pussy and a brace of gerbils.


Just the thing a normally single elderly man needs. That of course ignores the Gerbil is an ideal lab experimental animal.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I’m surprised that Harry has stuck his head over the parapet after being so wrong on nearly every aspect of this case. Could it be because he has access to confidential government documents? 
> 
> Naaw


If you want to go ahead and tell me where I'm wrong, please feel free....

Otherwise I'm happy to hear the evidence as to why it wasn't Russians that used a Russian nerve agent to poison a Russian double agent.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Pragmatic

In Harry's point of view, the Russians developed it so they did it . Case closed.





> Earlier this week, the head of the UK Porton Down defense lab said that they could not definitively conclude that the nerve agent was Russian-made, as previously claimed by Prime Minister Theresa May and Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> In Harry's point of view, the Russians developed it so they did it . Case closed.


What is it with the misquoting?

Do you understand the basics of criminal investigation?

Means, Motive and Opportunity.

The Russians had the means (a Russian made nerve agent), the motive (victim was a spy who did serious damage to Russian intelligence), and opportunity (victim was hardly keeping their head down).

And don't go off on all that shit about "they could have killed him earlier" because it's already been dealt with.

Try and keep up.

----------


## Pragmatic

> a Russian made nerve agent


 Not proven.



> the motive (victim was a spy who did serious damage to Russian intelligence)


 And for that he only got 13 years I recall. I find it hard to believe he wasn't executed.



> (victim was hardly keeping their head down).


Why should he? The Russians would know all about where he lived from dot one.

----------


## Begbie

> Try and keep up.


Have you been asleep for the last week, Harry Van Winkle?

Nerve agent not identified as being Russian made. (Chief of Porton Down)

Nerve Agent could be made by any qualified chemist (Professor at Cornell University)

They’re all either dead or about to die (Harrybarracuda)

Policeman discharged from Hospital, Russians on way to full recovery (Salisbury Hospital)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Have you been asleep for the last week, Harry Van Winkle?
> 
> Nerve agent not identified as being Russian made. (Chief of Porton Down)
> 
> Nerve Agent could be made by any qualified chemist (Professor at Cornell University)
> 
> They’re all either dead or about to die (Harrybarracuda)
> 
> Policeman discharged from Hospital, Russians on way to full recovery (Salisbury Hospital)


Does this generic tripe offer any kind of evidence? No.

Of course it was Russian made (originally), the obfuscation is that someone else *could* have made it.

Said Professor doesn't know what Nerve agent was used, so how the fuck can he make a blanket statement like that?

Not sure WTF you're on about with the third, I have the same sources of information you do and I've never said anyone died or was dying, although lots of "experts" said they would..

Jolly glad they aren't dead, but all that means is that the dose or the manufacture was wrong.

NONE of which means it wasn't a Russian attack using Russian nerve agents against a Russia spy.

And AGAIN for the illiterate, of course they could have killed him but they obviously realised he had value in an exchange, so, you know, it's possible they just assumed they could get him later?

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


None have you tin foil hatters have offered *any* credible alternatives.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Said Professor doesn't know what Nerve agent was used, so how the fuck can he make a blanket statement like that?


Cuz the British government told everyone the name of the agent.

Got to admit it Harry that those Russians are liars.  


> Russian scientists who developed the agents claim they are the deadliest *nerve agents* ever made, with some variants possibly five to eight times more potent than VX,


 3 people contaminated. 3 people survive. That won't look good if they wanted to sell some would it?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Cuz the British government told everyone the name of the agent.
> 
> Got to admit it Harry that those Russians are liars.   3 people contaminated. 3 people survive. That won't look good if they wanted to sell some would it?



Notice if you would the word agentS.

And we still don't know how it was delivered, because nothing has been made public yet.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Notice if you would the word agentS.


 Was more than one agent used?

----------


## Dragonfly

arguing with Harry is like arguing with a 13yr old chav, you will get yelled at and insulted as soon as you try to sound logical and point out his childish logic flaws  :Smile: 

hey harry, what's up in the desert  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Clearly another false flag in Salisbury.

----------


## Albert Shagnasty2017

> Novichoc


Ahhhh, the new bar made by Cadbury's.

Now owned by an American company.

If you get my drifter  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> Of course it was


Could you clarify what the "it" is your referring to?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Could you clarify what the "it" is your referring to?


I'm sorry you can't follow a point by point response, but I'm not dumbing down to your level.

 :Smile:

----------


## Begbie

> arguing with Harry is like arguing with a 13yr old child, you will get yelled at and insulted as soon as you try to sound logical and point out his childish logic flaws


Agreed.

----------


## Pragmatic

13 miles away from Porton Down nerve agent is allegedly used on unsuspecting people. Not the first time a similar test was done on London Underground.




> *Porton Down scientists test chemical gas on London Tube passengers*Chemical gas was released on thousands of unsuspecting commuters during a military experiment on the London Underground, documents reveal. These chemical tests were performed in 2013 by scientist from Porton Down.
> 
> _Porton Down scientists released chemical gas on the London Underground in 2013._
> The UK government never informed the British public of the military experiment on the London Underground. Thousands of people were exposed to chemical gas without their knowledge. Nor did the Ministry of Defence ask for their consent to participate in such military experiments. Information about the project can be obtained from a 2016 US Department of Homeland Security (DHS) document entitled Environmental Assessment of Proposed NYC Subway Tracer Particle and Gas Releases for the Underground Transport Restoration Project.


 https://maps.southfront.org/salisbur...rogram-porton/

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Agreed.


If you agree that Buttplug ever "tries to sound logical", there's a childish logic flaw right there.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> 13 miles away from Porton Down nerve agent is allegedly used on unsuspecting people. Not the first time a similar test was done on London Underground.


Read the document. There is no mention of a nerve agent. It is simply talk of a dissipation test using chemical tracers, something Porton Down would be expected to carry out given that its job is defence against the use of such nerve agents. And especially since such attacks have been carried out before (Japan, Sarin gas).




> _Dilyana Gaytandzhieva_


Of course utterly believable.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## harrybarracuda

I'm just surprised that one of our resident vladophiles hasn't blamed the British for the latest chemical atrocity in Syria.

----------


## OhOh

> I'm sorry you can't follow a point by point response, but I'm not dumbing down to your level.


I understand your desire to not add any clarity. The use of an ambiguous "it" demonstrates your inability to produce evidence and assist us dumb posters is, as always, very telling.

----------


## Pragmatic

> There is no mention of a nerve agent


 I never said it did. The article says 'chemicals' but you jumped to the conclusion I was talking about 'Nerve Agent'.




> something Porton Down would be expected to carry out given that its job is defence against the use of such nerve agents


Which it has done on military personnel for many years, but only with approval first. What they did on the Tube without informing the guinea pigs was wrong and I'd imagine illegal.   :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I never said it did. The article says 'chemicals' but you jumped to the conclusion I was talking about 'Nerve Agent'.
> 
> Which it has done on military personnel for many years, but only with approval first. What they did on the Tube without informing the guinea pigs was wrong and I'd imagine illegal.


OK so we're being picky. The article you selectively quoted specifically states:




> Presently Porton Down scientists produce and test dissemination of _biological and/or chemical agents_ as they did in the past, documents from the UK government contracts registry reveal. Although the information is redacted, it still raises questions as to why the UK military needs to develop a new technique for dissemination of chemical or biological agents via the inhalational route.




Don't really see anyone raising questions but the stupid Russian bint that wrote the article.

The whole point of doing these tests blind is to get an accurate measure of how these agents would disperse in a real life situation.

I'm pretty sure it's not illegal. I'm also pretty sure that if they'd announced them beforehand, the tin foil hat brigade would be scaring everyone off with wild claims about chemtrails and shite.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I understand your desire to not add any clarity. The use of an ambiguous "it" demonstrates your inability to produce evidence and assist us dumb posters is, as always, very telling.


The use of the word "it" in the point-by-point-response is pretty obvious to anyone who can read.

You've either become as thick as shit or you're desperately fumbling at a leading question.

Try harder next time.

----------


## Neo

> I'm just surprised that one of our resident vladophiles hasn't blamed the British for the latest chemical atrocity in Syria.


You have proof of a chemical attack in Syria.?  ::chitown::

----------


## Pragmatic

> The whole point of doing these tests blind is to get an accurate measure of how these agents would disperse in a real life situation.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's not illegal. I'm also pretty sure that if they'd announced them beforehand, the tin foil hat brigade would be scaring everyone off with wild claims about chemtrails and shite.


 Having been to Porton Down back in the early 70's I was subjected to certain experiments and once used an Atropine Atropen on myself. Before we underwent any trials we first had to sign a consent form. No sign no take part. As for doing tests blind there's a thing called a 'placibo'. For all I know my Atropen could have been filled with a placebo.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You have proof of a chemical attack in Syria.?


Expanded discussion in the ISIS thread/Speakers (unless you're just playing the silly OhOh game of squealing "prove it! prove it!", in which case it will simply be having to listen to more of your half-baked conspiracy nonsense).

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Having been to Porton Down back in the early 70's I was subjected to certain experiments and once used an Atropine Atropen on myself. Before we underwent any trials we first had to sign a consent form. No sign no take part. As for doing tests blind there's a thing called a 'placibo'. For all I know my Atropen could have been filled with a placebo.


For all you know what you chose to be exposed to might have been a placebo.

----------


## Klondyke

> "prove it! prove it!"


Why to prove? It's "highly likely"...

----------


## Klondyke

> It would make more sense if you replied
> 
> "Naaawwww speaaaky Eeeeenglis".


What English? Should it be the language you write here your valuable posts with the wise comments/advices?

Thanks, but no thanks... (staying better with my poor "Eeeeenglis")...

----------


## Pragmatic

> For all you know what you chose to be exposed to might have been a placebo.


 I agree but I still had to sign a consent form to take part.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> What English? Should it be the language you write here your valuable posts with the wise comments/advices?
> 
> Thanks, but no thanks... (staying better with my poor "Eeeeenglis")...


Word of advice:

When you're already replied to a post with one of your dull, irrelevant comments, and nobody has bothered replying, it's probably not worth replying to the same post again with another dull, irrelevant comment.

----------


## Klondyke

How dare I comment ("dully" and "irrelevantly") your kind "advices"?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> How dare I comment ("dully" and "irrelevantly") your kind "advices"?


Have another pie, imbecile.

----------


## Pragmatic

And I believe they're still doing it today.




> *How British government carried out secret biological warfare tests on London Tube passengers in 1960s during Cold War*


 How British government carried out secret biological warfare tests on London Tube passengers in 1960s during Cold War |

----------


## harrybarracuda

> And I believe they're still doing it today.
> 
> How British government carried out secret biological warfare tests on London Tube passengers in 1960s during Cold War |


Yes, and they used to drown witches and put real cocaine in Coke.

What exactly does this fascinating sidetrack have to do with the Salisbury attack?


Oooooooooooooooooooooh, you think the Brits were testing something?

----------


## Pragmatic

> Oooooooooooooooooooooh, you think the Brits were testing something?


 Well done Sherlock. I hoped you'd fathom it out. What a better place to do a test than at your own backdoor on 2 worthless Russians and claim the Russian government as the perpetrators. I hope they make a movie about it.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Well done Sherlock. I hoped you'd fathom it out. What a better place to do a test than at your own backdoor on 2 worthless Russians and claim the Russian government as the perpetrators. I hope they make a movie about it.


Yes, I'm glad you said Movie and not Documentary.

Great story though.

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

> do a test than at your own backdoor


Now that makes sense. The deadly, evil, Russian CWs kill in nano seconds. The botched copycat batch made in PD, based on an ameristani book's recipe, doesn't seem to be such a quality product. Good for pussy and gerbils though it seems.

 :rofl:

----------


## Begbie



----------


## Neo

> Expanded discussion in the ISIS thread/Speakers (unless you're just playing the silly OhOh game of squealing "prove it! prove it!", in which case it will simply be having to listen to more of your half-baked conspiracy nonsense).


Just flapping about as usual there harry... a simple 'no' would suffice  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Just flapping about as usual there harry... a simple 'no' would suffice


The answer is yes, there is proof, but it needs to be verified by the OPCW. Which of course Vlad and Assad will never let happen like every single time before.

Vlad only likes the OPCW when he thinks he can pull its strings.

----------


## Pragmatic

Daughter now moved to a safe location. Why? If somebody wanted her dead they'd have done it before she left Russia.

----------


## Neo

> The answer is yes, there is proof, but it needs to be verified by the OPCW. Which of course Vlad and Assad will never let happen like every single time before.
> 
> Vlad only likes the OPCW when he thinks he can pull its strings.


Did you get that from CNN or whichever cloud cuckoo land news channel you prefer to get your fake news from or did you pluck it straight from your arse.? 

 :smiley laughing: 

Russia and Syria have asked that OPCW inspectors visit the site of the alleged incident as soon as possible and said they will guarantee the safety of all OPCW personnel.

----------


## OhOh

> unless you're just playing the silly OhOh game of squealing "prove it! prove it!"


Blame the messenger eh, Pathetic.

It is accepted all around the world, possibly not in your country of residence,  by all sorts of legal systems that guilt has to be proven. Prior to the guilt being proven or not, no vote or decision can be taken by those selected for the task to decide the verdict, those selected to proclaim a sentence to pronounce the sentence and those selected to carry out the sentence..

If you believe that the evidence is proven, for or against, is not necessary and sentence should be carried out based on a few easily created, possibly  fake tweets or videos I am honestly disappointed with you.

But life goes on.

----------


## OhOh

> it needs to be verified by the OPCW. Which of course Vlad and Assad will never let happen like every single time before.


The Russian UN Ambassador has implored the OPCW to visit Syrian within a day or so.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?443763-1/un-security-council-meets-discuss-syria-chemical-weapons-attack


Sorry missed Neo's post 728  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

> Daughter now moved to a safe location


The location known only to UK authorities ? 

Have the Russian Embassy staff, whose legal duty is to assist Russians citizens in a foreign country, been invited to visit the Russian citizen and ensure the Russian citizen is actually alive/well, signifies she either refuses assistance in writing and witnessed by The UK authorities or alternatively desires Embassy assistance agin legally documented.

But that would be recognising the rights and obligations on a country to obey natural law. Something many are now ignoring totally.

She may desire to move on to another country, she may not. Is the world to accept a foreign countries authorities word on this issue? She may, as her father is allegedly still in Salisbury hospital, be under considerable mental pressure from the UK authorities to repeat all that is placed in front of her due to fear for her father's or her own life.

Still no evidence produced, day ..........

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Russia and Syria have asked that OPCW inspectors visit the site of the alleged incident as soon as possible and said they will guarantee the safety of all OPCW personnel.



 :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The location known only to UK authorities ? 
> 
> Have the Russian Embassy staff, whose legal duty is to assist Russians citizens in a foreign country, been invited to visit the Russian citizen


Perhaps she doesn't want to talk to them. You know, on account of them trying to kill her maybe.

 :bananaman:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The Russian UN Ambassador has implored the OPCW to visit Syrian within a day or so.
> 
> https://www.c-span.org/video/?443763-1/un-security-council-meets-discuss-syria-chemical-weapons-attack
> 
> 
> Sorry missed Neo's post 728



Prediction:  IF they do, and they come under fire, the Putin girls choir will blame it on rebels/IS/"Ameristan".

----------


## Pragmatic

> Perhaps she doesn't want to talk to them. You know, on account of them trying to kill her maybe.


 So she knows who tried to kill her? I wonder who told her that?    :UK:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So she knows who tried to kill her? I wonder who told her that?


Maybe she knows something you don't.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Maybe she knows something you don't.


 I may not be the smartest poster on TD but I know when something stinks.    :poo:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I may not be the smartest poster on TD but I know when something stinks.


Could be the Putin girls choir bullshit that stinks out the thread.

----------


## Klondyke

> Perhaps she doesn't want to talk to them. You know, on account of them trying to kill her maybe.


Anybody with IQ>50 who has listened to her conversation with her cousin - surely will agree with you...

----------


## Neverna

Yulia has been snatched, kidnapped, abducted, stolen!

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Anybody with IQ>50 who has listened to her conversation with her cousin - surely will agree with you...


It's only people with a single digit IQ who swallowed that shit.

Oh, look, it's Klondyke.




> Viktoria has repeatedly stated doubts about London's account of the Skripal poisoning and floated alternative theories, including poisoning by bad fish or an attack by the mother of Yulia Skripal’s boyfriend.


The curious case of Yulia Skripal?s recorded phone call | News | DW | 06.04.2018

----------


## david44

All seems fishy

A powerful super toxin , may or may not have been used by Russain , State, Rogue actors or whomsoevr .It may be so lethal a whole city centre , graveyard and house cordoned off.

Novochok has been described evertyhting from theoretical, tried , tested and lethal to non exsistent.
Russia's enemies seem convinced

Russia's allies seem unconvinced 

Neutrals like Austria sit on the fence

and now as all seem to be "recovering' there is talk of exfiltration to US?

The known outcomes so far a diplomatic spat and the moggy was killed and some hamsters died of dehydration

----------


## Listerman

> Vlad only likes the OPCW when he thinks he can pull its strings.


So you say, but Trumps new appointee and known hawk John Bolton pulled more than a few strings to ensure they got rid of the prevoius top man at the OPCW, because he did'nt capitulate to American influence over Iraqi CW stockpiles.

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/29/...ani-kids-opcw/


Google on search terms: John Bolton, OPCW, and Brazilian diplomat. And you will see many articles on this subject, and not just from RT sources.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So you say, but Trumps new appointee and known hawk John Bolton pulled more than a few strings to ensure they got rid of the prevoius top man at the OPCW, because he did'nt capitulate to American influence over Iraqi CW stockpiles.
> 
> https://theintercept.com/2018/03/29/...ani-kids-opcw/
> 
> 
> Google on search terms: John Bolton, OPCW, and Brazilian diplomat. And you will see many articles on this subject, and not just from RT sources.


Yes, Bolton's a c u n t.

And?

----------


## Listerman

> And?


You stated that




> Vlad only likes the OPCW when he thinks he can pull its strings.


With no evidence or links to articles to back up your assertion.

But I am offering serious evidence that the American government (of whom John Bolton was part of) has previous form of influencing the de-selection of the OPCW chairman to make it bend to an agenda, which then suited the American propaganda concerning Iraqi CW's.

----------


## buriramboy

Harry has a one track mind, swallows the American BS hook line and sinker without ever questioning it and if you try and have  civil discussion with him he just becomes abusive and incoherent, amusing at times but not worth anything other than a few minutes of your time now and again for humour purposes only.

----------


## tomcat

> hook line and sinker


...tired cliche alert!...

----------


## lom

> Could be the Putin girls choir bullshit that stinks out the thread.


No Harry, what stinks is you having your blinders on and jumping to conclusions trying to join dots which aren't there and then create new dots as you go.
Wobbleheads like you aren't known for logical thinking skills..

----------


## Dragonfly

the whole dossier stinks manipulation and spy games, everyone can see that

except Harry of course  :rofl:

----------


## Klondyke

> On Friday, however, the UK's Home Office rejected her application because it "did not comply with the Immigration Rules,


Only the oligarchs comply with the Immigration Rules...

----------


## Klondyke

> "Regarding the dead guinea pigs and the malnourished cat, it is said unofficially that they were taken to the Porton Down facility and incinerated there," a spokesperson said. "But it remains unclear if their remains were ever tested for toxic substances, which would constitute useful evidence, and if not, why such a decision was made."


Killing the innocent pets (and not pay for their cremation), who will wonder that we have expelled their diplomats?

----------


## harrybarracuda

The Putin girls choir scrabble to find excuses yet again....




> Russia has vetoed a proposal to set up an investigation into chemical weapons use in Syria.
> The US-drafted UN resolution would have established a new body to determine whether Syria was responsible for a chemical attack in Douma last week which killed 70 people.
> _This is the 12th time Russia has used its veto power at the council to block action targeting Syria._


_

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-ve...quiry-11325688
_

----------


## harrybarracuda

> No Harry, what stinks is you having your blinders on and jumping to conclusions trying to join dots which aren't there and then create new dots as you go.
> Wobbleheads like you aren't known for logical thinking skills..


Excuse me I don't believe it's your solo.

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

An official announcement, one assumes carefully composed, from the Salisbury hospital. Given to the press on video and on paper. A formal piece of evidence for the Met to examine along with any other interested parties.

A part of it:

_"Following the incident on March 4, Salisbury District Hospital  received three people who required inpatient care  Sergei and Yulia  Skripal and DS Nick Bailey, who was discharged on March 22. All three  had been exposed to a nerve agent  a highly toxic chemical which aims  to prevent the nervous system from functioning._ _In the four weeks since the incident in the city centre, both have  received round the clock care from our clinicians, whove been able to  draw in advice and support from world leading experts in this field.  Weve been keeping you updated on the condition of Yulia and Sergei,  whilst respecting the right to privacy to which they  and all our  patients  are entitled.
_
_While I wont go into great detail about the treatment weve been  providing, 

I will say that nerve agents work by attaching themselves to a  particular enzyme in the body which then stops the nerves from working  properly. This results in symptoms such as sickness, hallucinations and   confusion. Our job in treating the patients has been to stabilise them  ensuring that the patients could breathe and that blood could continue  to circulate. We then needed to use a variety of different drugs to  support the patients until they could create more enzymes to replace  those affected by the poisoning. We also used specialised  decontamination techniques to remove any residual toxins.
_
_Both patients have responded exceptionally well to the treatment  weve been providing. But equally, both patients are at different stages  in their recovery._

_Yulia has now been discharged from Salisbury District Hospital. Yulia  has asked for privacy from the media and I want to reiterate that  request. I also want to take this opportunity to wish Yulia well. This  is not the end of her treatment, but marks a significant milestone."

_https://www.england.nhs.uk/south/2018/04/10/updates-on-the-salisbury-incident-7/?filter-keyword=&filter-category=newsShe states as facts:

1. Three patients exposed to "a nerve agent". One recovers in a few days after being admitted some hours after the "incident" . Two others, who were taken to the hospital within minutes, took a month or so  to recover!

2. She states they were stabilised, put into a coma, for their own good. Two for weeks, one for a couple of days!

3. She will not go into great detail but then does so to reinforce a certain position. Nerve agent, a variety of unknown drugs and specialised techniques. She also states they were used to remove "residual Toxins".

Toxins are biological poisons, not chemical!

"toxin"

A  poison  or  noxious  thing  produced  by  animals,  plants,  or  bacteria.  See Amatoxin, Anaphylatoxin, Bacterial toxin, Batrachotoxin, Biotoxin, Botulinum toxin, Bungarotoxin, Coley's toxin, Endotoxin, Exotoxin, Heat-stable toxin, Immunotoxin, Lethal toxin, Middle molecule toxin, Neurotoxin, Phallotoxin, Picrotoxin, Recombinant toxin, Rhizotoxin, Shiga neurotoxin, Tetanospasmin.

https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/toxin

This of course reinforces the hospital doctors letter to the Times published within a couple of days of the incident. Where he stated no chemical weapons had been detected.

4. She then states "both patients have responded exceptionally well". One wonders if the third "patient" who allegedly was also "exposed to a nerve agent", really had just a sore throat.

One hopes her "statement" will be carefully questioned once an enquiry is established. The enquiry rightly so will take a number of years to report, a la the Illegal invasion of Iraq, and the responsible people will be exonerated by the enquiry. As per the norm in the UK.

----------


## harrybarracuda

To anyone versed in how high-level, high-stakes diplomacy operates in the real world, it’s obvious that London is in possession of solid intelligence to back up its claim of Kremlin culpability in the March 4 attack. Theresa May’s insistence that Russian intelligence is to blame for the attack on the Skripals is the tell that the Brits know something important behind the scenes, the sort of highly classified information that can’t be shared with the public. But what?


Finally, we may have an answer to that vital question. Yesterday, The Express, a British tabloid, reported a bombshell: British spies on Cyprus had intercepted a series of secret Kremlin messages that were related to the assassination:


On the day of the poisonings, March 4, one was sent from a location near Damascus in Syria to “an official” in Moscow including the phrase “the package has been delivered” and saying that two individuals had “made a successful egress.” This prompted a young Flight Lieutenant to recall a separate message that had been intercepted and discounted on the previous day. 


Furthermore, according to The Express, the secret messages were forwarded to Britain, where Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ, Britain’s NSA partner and equivalent) realized their significance and forwarded them to Prime Minister May. This explosive intelligence was also shared with the White House. Moreover, these top-secret intercepts were but one piece—albeit a crucial one—of the classified information London possesses about what happened in Salisbury.

So, to break this down, a British signals intelligence site in Cyprus intercepted a series of secret messages between Damascus and Moscow that seemed to indicate Russian foreknowledge and responsibility for what happened to Sergei and Yulia Skripal. But is any of this, well, true? Let’s discuss what we can confirm.

First, there really is a British SIGINT site in southern Cyprus, run by the British military for GCHQ, which currently goes by the euphemism Joint Service Signal Unit Cyprus. It has been there since the early days of the last Cold War, and over the last few decades it has provided a lot of useful intelligence for both GCHQ and NSA.


Second, thanks to its location, the Cyprus SIGINT site has good access to intelligence targets in the eastern Mediterranean, so its interception of Russian government communications—in this case, from one of Russia’s many spy bases around Damascus—is inherently plausible. Indeed, this is exactly the sort of high-value intelligence that Western SIGINT services look out for. Moreover, it’s very common in the espionage trade to intercept information, the importance of which only becomes clear a day or two after.

Therefore, we can conclude that The Express story has a ring of truth to it, and several friends inside the Five Eyes intelligence alliance have confirmed to me that it is true. There are also hints that other Western intelligence agencies intercepted Russian communications relevant to the Skripal hit, and those, likewise, have been shared with London and Washington.


British codebreakers are highly skilled, and this would hardly be the first time that London’s spies intercepted hush-hush foreign communications that changed the world. Back in early 1917, Royal Navy codebreakers got their hands on a bombshell secret German diplomatic cable—it would go down in history as the Zimmermann Telegram—which got the United States into the First World Warand altered the course of history. These more recent Cyprus intercepts may prove less earth-shaking, though the Kremlin’s official admission that we’re in Cold War 2.0 surely looms as a major historical event. Yet again, SIGINT has demonstrated why it has been the world’s most valuable intelligence source for more than a century.

https://teakdoor.com/world-news/18365...ritain-31.html (Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> An announcement from the Salisbury hospital. Given to the press on video and on paper. A formal piece of evidence for the Met to examine along with any interested parties.
> 
> A part of it:
> 
> _"Following the incident on March 4, Salisbury District Hospital  received three people who required inpatient care – Sergei and Yulia  Skripal and DS Nick Bailey, who was discharged on March 22. All three  had been exposed to a nerve agent – a highly toxic chemical which aims  to prevent the nervous system from functioning._ _In the four weeks since the incident in the city centre, both have  received round the clock care from our clinicians, who’ve been able to  draw in advice and support from world leading experts in this field.  We’ve been keeping you updated on the condition of Yulia and Sergei,  whilst respecting the right to privacy to which they – and all our  patients – are entitled.
> 
> _
> _While I won’t go into great detail about the treatment we’ve been  providing, 
> 
> ...


So they've confirmed it's a nerve agent and you're clutching at straws.

Nothing new there then.

----------


## Neo

The US and its allies veto the Russian resolution to send OPCW inspectors to Syria.



> The latest resolution to fail was a Russian-sponsored draft backing an Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) fact-finding mission at the site of the alleged attack in Douma. The draft received five votes in favor (Russia, China, Ethiopia, Kazakhstan and Bolivia), four votes against (the US, the UK, France and Poland) and six abstentions, falling short of the minimum nine votes required for adoptionhttps://www.rt.com/news/423762-syria-investigation-draft-rejected/


Why is that harry.? Why doesn't the US want inspectors to visit the site of this alleged chemical weapons attack.? 

 ::chitown::

----------


## Dragonfly

> its obvious that London is in possession of solid intelligence to back up its claim of Kremlin culpability in the March 4 attack.


only to you dude  :rofl: 




> Theresa Mays insistence that Russian intelligence is to blame for the attack on the Skripals is the tell that the Brits know something important behind the scenes, the sort of highly classified information that cant be shared with the public. But what?


Theresa May is a deceing kunt of the highest order, and you are buying all her shit as kasher ? how delusional are you  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The US and its allies veto the Russian resolution to send OPCW inspectors to Syria.
> 
> 
> Why is that harry.? Why doesn't the US want inspectors to visit the site of this alleged chemical weapons attack.?


No, they just don't want Syria and Russia stopping the OPCW from doing its job.





> _"The draft resolution mainly asks for the OPCW to send a fact-finding mission to Douma._ _But the fact-finding mission is already travelling to Douma, they have a mandate to investigate and collect samples__,"_ Haley noted. *The draft, she argued, aimed to put "the Russian and the Syrian governments in the driver's seat for making arrangements" and to "micromanage" the OPCW investigation.*
> _"This Council, and least of all Russia, should not be calling the shots,"_ she stressed.


And, of course, she is spot on.

----------


## Pragmatic

> *April 06, 2018*
> *The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning*
> 
> Doctors at the Salisbury District Hospital announced today that Sergej Skripal's health is rapidly improving. He and his daughter Yulia will likely be well again.
> It is unlikely that any targeted poisoning with a real 'military grade' nerve agent would have allowed for such an outcome. This brings us back to food poisoning as a possible cause of the Skripals' ordeal.
> A friend of this blog, _Tore_, sent us his considerations which we publish below. He suggest that shellfish poisoning, which is caused by a neurotoxin known as Saxitoxin or STX, is the real culprit of the Skripal incident. He explains how this would fit to the observable behavior of the British government and other participants in the drama. In my view his theory has significant merit.


 MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning




> https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/saxitoxin/casedef.asp


Food poisoning was also claimed to be the cause of poisoning by _Yulia Skripal when she phoned her cousin in Russia. Over to you Harry._

----------


## harrybarracuda

> MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning
> 
> Food poisoning was also claimed to be the cause of poisoning by _Yulia Skripal when she phoned her cousin in Russia. Over to you Harry._


I refer you to Ohoh's post above.

 ::chitown:: 

Mind you I'd also caution you to stop reading whackjob websites.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Why doesn't the US want inspectors to visit the site of this alleged chemical weapons attack.?


I'd also question your reading ability given that the article you quoted states that the OPCW are going to visit the site of this alleged chemical weapons attack (that's assuming Syria and Russia don't try and find an "alternative" way of stopping them).

----------


## harrybarracuda

Just so the Putin girls choir are all on the same page:




> THE HAGUE, Netherlands — 10 April 2018 — Since the first reports of alleged use of chemical weapons in Douma, Syrian Arab Republic, were issued, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) has been gathering information from all available sources and analysing it. At the same time, OPCW’s Director-General, Ambassador Ahmet Üzümcü, has considered the deployment of a Fact-Finding Mission (FFM) team to Douma to establish facts surrounding these allegations.
> Today, the OPCW Technical Secretariat has requested the Syrian Arab Republic to make the necessary arrangements for such a deployment. This has coincided with a request from the Syrian Arab Republic and the Russian Federation to investigate the allegations of chemical weapons use in Douma. The team is preparing to deploy to Syria shortly.


https://www.opcw.org/news/article/op...o-douma-syria/

----------


## Pragmatic

> Mind you I'd also caution you to stop reading whackjob websites.


 Rule one. When your arse is against the wall always attack the messenger.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Rule one. When your arse is against the wall always attack the messenger.



Rule number two.

When you post shit off a whackjob website and someone debunks it and tells you why, take it gracefully.

I think the doctors that treated the three victims probably know enough to determine that it wasn't food poisoning you complete chump.

 :rofl: 

Just a little reminder from OhOh's post:




> _Following the incident on March 4, Salisbury District Hospital received three people who required inpatient care – Sergei and Yulia Skripal and DS Nick Bailey, who was discharged on March 22. All three had been exposed to a nerve agent – a highly toxic chemical which aims to prevent the nervous system from functioning._

----------


## Pragmatic

*Paralytic Shellfish Poison* Paralytic Shellfish Poison shows similar symptoms as Nerve agent poisoning. In the case of nerve agent poisoning no one has been known to recover without the antidote. Whereas PSP people can completely recover and there is no antidote.




> *What are the symptoms of PSP?*Early symptoms include tingling of the lips and tongue, which may begin within minutes of eating toxic shellfish or may take an hour or two to develop. Symptoms may progress to tingling of fingers and toes and then loss of control of arms and legs, followed by difficulty in breathing. Some people feel nauseous or experience a sense of floating. If a person consumes enough toxin, muscles of the chest and abdomen become paralyzed, including muscles used for breathing, and the victim can suffocate. Death from PSP has occurred in less than 30 minutes.





> *What is the treatment?*There is no antidote for PSP. The only treatment for severe cases is the use of life support systems such as a mechanical respirator and oxygen until the toxin passes from the victim's system. Survivors can have a full recovery.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> In the case of nerve agent poisoning no one has been known to recover without the antidote.


Now you're just making shit up.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Now you're just making shit up.


Go on, name someone who has recovered, without the antidote, from nerve agent poisoning.

Kim Jong-Nam was carrying 12 vials of nerve agent antidote (Atropine) when he got attacked. Didn't save him did it?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Go on, name someone who has recovered, without the antidote, from nerve agent poisoning.
> 
> Kim Jong-Nam was carrying 12 vials of nerve agent antidote (Atropine) when he got attacked. Didn't save him did it?


Again: You're making shit up.

The effects of ANY poisoning are proportional to the dose received.

The use of nerve agents is not new.

Not everyone on the Japanese underground died in the Aum Shinrikyo Sarin attacks.

(Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees, Sarin is a Nerve Agent).





> The Tokyo subway sarin attack (Subway Sarin Incident (地下鉄サリン事件 Chikatetsu Sarin Jiken) was an act of domestic terrorism perpetrated on March 20, 1995, in Tokyo, Japan, by members of the cult movement Aum Shinrikyo.
> In five coordinated attacks, the perpetrators released sarin on three lines of the present-day Tokyo Metro (then part of the Tokyo subway) during rush hour, killing 12 people, *severely injuring 50 and causing temporary vision problems for nearly 1,000 others.*


Again: Don't make shit up.

----------


## Klondyke

And interestingly, no "rebels" affected, just the kids...

----------


## Pragmatic

> Not everyone on the Japanese underground died in the Aum Shinrikyo Sarin attacks.


 No because nerve agent really only becomes deadly when it comes into contact with the skin. In the case of the Japanese attack it didn't happen because some of those who delivered the VX refused to use aerosol spays to deliver the agent. 

[QUOTE]At prearranged stations, the sarin packets were dropped and punctured several times with the sharpened tip of the umbrella. Each perpetrator then got off the train and exited the station to meet his accomplice with a car. Leaving the punctured packets on the floor allowed the sarin to leak out into the train car and stations. [/QUOTE]

----------


## harrybarracuda

[QUOTE=Pragmatic;3749875]No because nerve agent really only becomes deadly when it comes into contact with the skin. In the case of the Japanese attack it didn't happen because some of those who delivered the VX refused to use aerosol spays to deliver the agent. 




> At prearranged stations, the sarin packets were dropped and punctured several times with the sharpened tip of the umbrella. Each perpetrator then got off the train and exited the station to meet his accomplice with a car. Leaving the punctured packets on the floor allowed the sarin to leak out into the train car and stations. [/QUOTE]


Well it obviously got in contact with the skin because it killed 12 people didn't it?

Sheesh, you're making shit up and now you're trying to defend it.

Post me a link that says definitively that no-one has ever survived exposure to a nerve agent or stop making shit up.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Well it obviously got in contact with the skin because it killed 12 people didn't it?


 You still haven't named one person who has survived a nerve agent attack without the use of the antidote. I agree people died on the Japanese subway but they must have come into contact with the agent. More than likely from aerosol can that were used. Even one on the attackers came into contact with the nerve agent but he used Atropine on himself.




> Kenichi Hirose teamed up with getaway driver Koichi Kitamura. After releasing the sarin, Hirose himself showed symptoms of sarin poisoning. He was able to inject himself with the antidote (atropine sulphate) and was rushed to the Aum-affiliated Shinrikyo Hospital in Nakano for treatment.

----------


## cyrille

> No because nerve agent really only becomes deadly when it comes into contact with the skin. In the case of the Japanese attack it didn't happen because some of those who delivered the VX refused to use aerosol spays to deliver the agent.


[QUOTE]At prearranged stations, the sarin packets were dropped and punctured several times with the sharpened tip of the umbrella. Each perpetrator then got off the train and exited the station to meet his accomplice with a car. Leaving the punctured packets on the floor allowed the sarin to leak out into the train car and stations. [/QUOTE]

Your quote does not support your comments.


In fact Sarin is highly volatile, in other words it can easily turn from a liquid into a gas. Even sarin vapour can immediately penetrate the skin. So while strictly speaking your implication that it can only kill when it comes into contact with the skin is true, that contact can be in vapour form. Thus there is no need for a delivery method such as an aerosol.

Leaving a bag of it in a train would be a pretty crap attempt at mass murder if it could only kill via contact with the contents of the bag.

'Underground' by Haruki Murukami is worth reading, btw.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You still haven't named one person who has survived a nerve agent attack without the use of the antidote. I agree people died on the Japanese subway but they must have come into contact with the agent. More than likely from aerosol can that were used. Even one on the attackers came into contact with the nerve agent but he used Atropine on himself.



You seriously want me to name 




> *severely injuring 50 and causing temporary vision problems for nearly 1,000 others*


Now you're just being silly.

Just admit you made it up without thinking it through and move on.

----------


## Neo

> I'd also question your reading ability given that the article you quoted states that the OPCW are going to visit the site of this alleged chemical weapons attack (that's assuming Syria and Russia don't try and find an "alternative" way of stopping them).


You mean the US doesn't want the world to see that it is Russia who is rational and in control of the situation in Syria. 

You're a fool harry.. a spoon fed stooge. I figure you must have stocks in arms manufacturing cos you've got the same sour grapes as they do over Russia stopping them making a literal killing. They gotta start WW3 somehow, somewhere is the thinking huh. 

And that article you posted that starts of with 'those that are in the know about high level politics' I bet you got a semi when you read that.. appealed to you didn't it cos you fancy yourself as some kind of political savant.. what a crock of shit that was. The novocock now comes from Syria.. how convenient that is for your pea brain to process, you do love a bit of snake oil eh harry. 

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You mean the US doesn't want the world to see that it is Russia who is rational and in control of the situation in Syria. 
> 
> You're a fool harry.. a spoon fed stooge. I figure you must have stocks in arms manufacturing cos you've got the same sour grapes as they do over Russia stopping them making a literal killing. They gotta start WW3 somehow, somewhere is the thinking huh. 
> 
> And that article you posted that starts of with 'those that are in the know about high level politics' I bet you got a semi when you read that.. appealed to you didn't it cos you fancy yourself as some kind of political savant.. what a crock of shit that was. The novocock now comes from Syria.. how convenient that is for your pea brain to process, you do love a bit of snake oil eh harry.


And it is with waffle like this that the Putin girls choir lose the argument yet again.

 :bananaman:

----------


## Klondyke

In war, truth is the first casualty...

(Wondering how many wars - not so long ago - had been started by such "Casualty?)

----------


## david44

> The novocock now comes


 :smiley laughing: 

not HBC he's quoting Neo

----------


## lom

Has anyone informed Boris that the nerve agent came from Syria?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Has anyone informed Boris that the nerve agent came from Syria?


Has anyone informed you that the chief suspect according to medical specialists involved in Syria is Chlorine mixed with Sarin?

No?

Oh, read this then.

Syria war: What we know about Douma 'chemical attack' - BBC News

----------


## harrybarracuda

Oh Fuck.




> “Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!” You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!,” Trump wrote.

----------


## lom

> Has anyone informed you that the chief suspect according to medical specialists involved in Syria is Chlorine mixed with Sarin?
> 
> No?
> 
> Oh, read this then.
> 
> Syria war: What we know about Douma 'chemical attack' - BBC News


What has that to do with the Novochoc used in Salisbury?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> What has that to do with the Novochoc used in Salisbury?


Absolutely nothing.

Which is why your comment:




> Has anyone informed Boris that the nerve agent came from Syria?


Is so utterly fucking dim.

More so you when you spell it like it's a cadburys snack bar.

----------


## lom

So why are you then bringing up Sarin and Douma in a thread about the Skripals in Salisbury?
Wobble wobble..

----------


## Pragmatic

> So why are you then bringing up Sarin and Douma in a thread about the Skripals in Salisbury?


 Cuz Harry was losing the argument regarding the Skripals that he brought in the 1995 attack by Aum Shinrikyo doomsday cult in Japan and it went downhill from there.   :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Cuz Harry was losing the argument regarding the Skripals that he brought in the 1995 attack by Aum Shinrikyo doomsday cult in Japan and it went downhill from there.


Correct me if I'm wrong but some twat said no-one has ever survived a nerve agent attack.

And the commonality between Salisbury and Douma is that Vlad and the putin girls choir don't really want the OPCW investigating either of them.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So why are you then bringing up Sarin and Douma in a thread about the Skripals in Salisbury?
> Wobble wobble..


Oh my goodness gracious me.

----------


## Neverna

> You're a fool harry.. a spoon fed stooge. I figure you must have stocks in arms manufacturing cos you've got the same sour grapes as they do over Russia stopping them making a literal killing.


He's not so daft. Paid 10 dollars per post by Uncle Sam. There's no other plausible reason why he posts so much in these threads.

----------


## HuangLao

> He's not so daft. Paid 10 dollars per post by Uncle Sam. There's no other plausible reason why he posts so much in these threads.


....and every other fucking thread of little or no value.

Don't have to be terribly observant that our good Harry is blind to hard-lined traditional convention, therefore disconnected without the possibilities of any such altered states.
Eurocentric to the core [which is not a compliment].

----------


## Pragmatic

> Correct me if I'm wrong but some twat said no-one has ever survived a nerve agent attack.


 You missed out 'without the use of an antidote'.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ....and every other fucking thread of little or no value.
> 
> Don't have to be terribly observant that our good Harry is blind to hard-lined traditional convention, therefore disconnected without the possibilities of any such altered states.


If anyone knows about living in altered states, it's definitely you Jeff. You're the forum space cadet!

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> He's not so daft. Paid 10 dollars per post by Uncle Sam. There's no other plausible reason why he posts so much in these threads.


Hardly a retirement fund, is it?

----------


## Norton

> “Russia vows to shoot down any and all missiles fired at Syria. Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nice and new and “smart!” You shouldn’t be partners with a Gas Killing Animal who kills his people and enjoys it!,” Trump wrote.


Our boy in the white house, good ole "don't confuse me with facts", kinda puts an end to the debate.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Our boy in the white house, good ole "don't confuse me with facts", kinda puts an end to the debate.


Did you see the Russian response?!




> _Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Facebook that “smart” missiles would destroy any evidence of a suspected chemical weapons attack._



They're all barking.

----------


## Neverna

It's a madhouse and we are just observers.

----------


## Klondyke

> They're all barking.


To defends all these lies leading to tragical consequences it needs to have really a pretty strong stomach..

----------


## Neo

Even FOX thinks it's a crock of shit 'Foreign Policy by Viral Video': Tucker Rips 'Talk Show Generals' Calling for War in Syria | Fox News Insider

----------


## OhOh

> And, of course, she is spot on.


Are you suggesting that the OPCW teams are not independent and thus are "managed" by the country they are investigating?

Not everyone on the Japanese underground died in the Aum Shinrikyo Sarin attacks.[/QUOTE]

Everybody knows it was from the PD rejects bin . PD haven't yet to master QC and hence 3 victims in Salisbury of the "most potent, 10x Sarin, weapons grade chemical weapons attack" survived.  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> Oh, read this then.


Your link to the UK government funded fake news source quotes a number of "medical authorities" and other dubious sources:

Syrian opposition activists, rescue workers and medics? Unamed sources.

Violations Documentation Center (VDC) - just look at their "funders" and hence puppet masters. OSF (Soros), "*Ayman Asfari
*
_"Ayman Asfari is Group Chief Executive of Petrofac Limited. He has led  the growth of Petrofac from a small US-based engineering business to a  FTSE 250 multinational company employing more than 18,000 employees  worldwide. He is a member of the Board of Trustees of the American  University of Beirut, and sits on advisory boards of Chatham House and  the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.'
_
Syria Civil Defence -THE WHITE HELMETS  :Smile: 

Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS) "is a non-profit, non-political, professional organization representing thousands of Syrian-American medical professionals in the United States"  :Smile: 

Union of Medical Care and Relief Organizations (UOSSM) - ameristani company.  :Smile: 

A medical student working at a hospital told the BBC he had treated a man who died  - An unamed source.

Videos posted by the opposition activist group Douma Revolution - A facebook/twiter entity!

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group - No words needed.

The United States,  - No words needed.

Experts  from a joint UN-OPCW mission also said they were confident that  government forces were behind the April 2017 Sarin attack on Khan  Sheikhoun, - based on unprovable sampling by others, not OPCW staff

Is that the best shot you have, quoting BBC propaganda whose sources are easily discarded? Do you really believe the number of fake sources is important or a handful of statements from persons of power and authority?




> Vlad and the putin girls choir don't really want the OPCW investigating either of them.


Check out published calls from many Russian officials prior to lying again 'arry.




> He's not so daft. Paid 10 dollars per post by Uncle Sam.


The LORD pays 10g of 99.999% gold/post.  :Smile: 




> Did you see the Russian response?!
> 
> Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Facebook that “smart” missiles would destroy any evidence of a suspected chemical weapons attack.
> 
> They're all barking.


Not only the evidence but, the now, in country, OPCW investigation team. They failed to stop the team going in the UNSC and now resort to frightening them with death if they enter the country. Very civilised and one of the many "western rules based systems" all are meant to cower before.




> It's a madhouse and we are just observers.


Luckily some are at a distance and one suspects our country of choice is not an object worth attacking by ameristan. 'arry allegedly, is in the thick of it, probably managing the comms for one or other UAE King.




> it needs to have really a pretty strong stomach


Some get off on slaughtering little brown people, in far way countries when using remote weapons from a base in Virginia. It makes them feel exceptional and they get to shoot each other over a Chinese made TV every thanksgiving day.




> Even FOX thinks it's a crock of shit


Will anyone listen to him and put their heads above the parapet, not I suspect in ameristan.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Your link to the UK government funded fake news source quotes a number of "medical authorities" and other dubious sources:
> 
> Syrian opposition activists, rescue workers and medics? Unamed sources.
> 
> Violations Documentation Center (VDC) - just look at their "funders" and hence puppet masters. OSF, "*Ayman Asfari
> *
> _Ayman Asfari is Group Chief Executive of Petrofac Limited. He has led  the growth of Petrofac from a small US-based engineering business to a  FTSE 250 multinational company employing more than 18,000 employees  worldwide. He is a member of the Board of Trustees of the American  University of Beirut, and sits on advisory boards of Chatham House and  the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
> _
> Syria Civil Defence -THE WHITE HELMETS 
> ...


Classic OhOh.

Yet you will post the most laughable nonsense from RT.com and bristle when people laugh at you.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

Can't let your propaganda stand without comment. It is 10g of 99.999% gold after all.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

When you think about it.....




> _Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Facebook that smart missiles would destroy any evidence of a suspected chemical weapons attack._


....that's an admission that they suspect a chemical weapons attack, and an admission that they think that the Syrians have them.

 :Smile:

----------


## lom

> To anyone versed in how high-level, high-stakes diplomacy operates in the real world, it’s obvious that London is in possession of solid intelligence to back up its claim of Kremlin culpability in the March 4 attack. Theresa May’s insistence that Russian intelligence is to blame for the attack on the Skripals is the tell that the Brits know something important behind the scenes, the sort of highly classified information that can’t be shared with the public. But what?
> 
> 
> Finally, we may have an answer to that vital question. Yesterday, The Express, a British tabloid, reported a bombshell: British spies on Cyprus had intercepted a series of secret Kremlin messages that were related to the assassination


The Express, a tabloid for the ultra right-wing flank of Tory voters, it is as reliable as rt.com.
I've been waiting for a major mainland European newspaper to pick up this story but none of them seems to find it newsworthy.
You believe in shit like this Harry?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The Express, a tabloid for the ultra right-wing flank of Tory voters, it is as reliable as rt.com.
> I've been waiting for a major mainland European newspaper to pick up this story but none of them seems to find it newsworthy.
> You believe in shit like this Harry?


I did actually highlight the bits that were relevant.

I'm quite aware the OAP Daily Star is not exactly a bastion of journalism.

 :Smile:

----------


## misskit

*Daughter of poisoned Russian spy declines embassy help: statement*LONDON (Reuters) - Yulia Skripal, who was poisoned in Britain last month along with her father, a former Russian spy, said on Wednesday she did not wish to take up the offer of services from the Russian Embassy in London.

In a statement issued on her behalf by British police, Skripal said her father, Sergei, remained seriously ill and she was still suffering from the effects of nerve gas used against them in an attack that led to one of the biggest crises in Britains relations with Moscow since the Cold War.


I have access to friends and family, and I have been made aware of my specific contacts at the Russian Embassy who have kindly offered me their assistance in any way they can, Yulia Skripal said.





At the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services, but, if I change my mind I know how to contact them.





The Russian Embassy in London has previously said it had not been granted consular access to the 33 year-old woman.


Following Yulia Skripals statement, the embassy said: We continue to insist on a meeting with Yulia and Sergei Skripal. The situation around them looks more and more like a forceful detention or imprisonment.


Yulia Skripal was discharged from a hospital in the English city of Salisbury on Monday, where, she said, she was treated  with obvious clinical expertise and with such kindness.


Skripal said she was not yet strong enough to give a media interview and she said comments made by her cousin to Russian media were not hers nor those of her father.


I thank my cousin Viktoria for her concern for us, but ask that she does not visit me or try to contact me for the time being, the statement quoted her as saying.


The Skripals were in a critical condition for weeks after the March 4 attack before their health improved.



Sergei Skripal, who was recruited by Britains MI6, was arrested for treason in Moscow in 2004. He ended up in Britain after being swapped in 2010 for Russian spies caught in the United States.


Britain accused Russia of being behind the nerve agent attack and Western governments including the United States expelled more than 100 Russian diplomats. Russia has denied any involvement in the poisoning and retaliated in kind.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1HI30V

----------


## Pragmatic

> In a statement issued on her behalf by British police


Not a personal public statement I see.

----------


## Klondyke

> “At the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services, but, if I change my mind I know how to contact them.”


Who does not doubt such statement? (no name here please...)

----------


## Klondyke

> Are you suggesting that the OPCW teams are not independent and thus are "managed" by the country they are investigating?


"Managed" not "by the country they are investigating" - but by others (as was the case in Iraq)...

----------


## lom

> I did actually highlight the bits that were relevant.
> 
> I'm quite aware the OAP Daily Star is not exactly a bastion of journalism.


The interception of the mentioned message never took place, it is all a fabrication by the Express so nothing of what you highlighted is relevant. 
The article is written for the gullible, feeding them with one simple fact that can be checked (that UK has a listening stn in Cyprus) praying on that
they therefore will believe all the other bollox.
And you fell for it Harry!!

----------


## Neo

He didn't fall for it, he dived in head first then did the backstroke while whistling Rule Brittania.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The interception of the mentioned message never took place, it is all a fabrication by the Express so nothing of what you highlighted is relevant.


Is this because it's in the Express though?

Or because you are in fact a top intelligence agent or work in the Golf Ball?

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Well we'll know soon enough. Not that it matters, because unless it comes from Pravda, the Putin girls choir won't believe it anyway.

Amazing how the Russians are squealing for a deeper investigation into this, yet for an attack that killed 70 in Syria they squeal the opposite way.





> *Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to release findings on Salisbury nerve agent attack*
> 
> The international chemical weapons watchdog's report on the Salisbury nerve agent attack is expected to be revealed, as a diplomatic battle continues to rage between the UK and Russia.
> 
> Former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with a nerve agent thought to have been ordered by Moscow more than a month ago, leaving the pair seriously ill in hospital.
> 
> The Foreign Office said it had asked the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) to release an executive summary of its findings on Thgursday <sic>.
> 
> It comes as Ms Skripal revealed she has rejected assistance from the Russian embassy, adding: "I want to stress that no one speaks for me, or for my father, but ourselves."
> ...

----------


## Pragmatic

> Amazing how the Russians are squealing for a deeper investigation into this, yet for an attack that killed 70 in Syria they squeal the opposite way.


 May be because the Russians have hands on investigators in Syria who know the truth. Whereas ...............

----------


## tomcat

> May be because the Russians have hands on investigators in Syria who know the truth


...knowing the truth and sharing it completely with the world isn't usually a Russian strategy...

----------


## Pragmatic

> knowing the truth and sharing it completely with the world isn't usually a Russian strategy...


 Are the UK and America, to name two, any different?

----------


## tomcat

...yes: they have to deal with investigative reporters who have all sorts of ways to unbury and publish inconvenient facts..._rt_ (for example) merely reports what it's told to...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> May be because the Russians have hands on investigators in Syria who know the truth. Whereas ...............


OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH.

So when the Russians say "It's OK we checked, there was no chemical attack", we can take them at their word you mean?

My word, you are truly gullible.

----------


## Farangrakthai

> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH.
> 
> So when the Russians say "It's OK we checked, there was no chemical attack", we can take them at their word you mean?
> 
> My word, you are truly gullible.


harry, you really don't think it's just too big a coincidence that the "chemical attack" happened just days after trump announced he wants to pull all u.s. troops/personnel from syria?

----------


## Farangrakthai

> President Trump says he wants to pull troops out of Syria - ABC News
> 
> "I want to get out. I want to bring our troops back home. I want to start rebuilding our nation," Trump said during a press conference with leaders of the Baltic countries Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. "It's time. We were successful against ISIS. We'll be successful against anybody militarily, but sometimes it's time to come back home — and we're thinking about that very seriously."


.....

----------


## Pragmatic

> So when the Russians say "It's OK we checked, there was no chemical attack", we can take them at their word you mean?


I would believe Russia before I believed the US.

----------


## Albert Shagnasty2017

> I would believe Russia before I believed the US.


Yup. No question.

----------


## david44

I'd sooner belive Smeg or a Tesla owner than either.

Of course for real skinny Fux News

----------


## Klondyke

Why not to believe the chemical May and clown Boris? And now kindly supported by the remorseful Tony. 

The government with so long history of nothing but truth ("highly likely").

----------


## harrybarracuda

The Putin girls choir say they would believe Russia before the US.

Clearly they have not yet twigged why they are called the Putin girls choir.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Can we say "Veiled threat""?




> Russian state television has warned “traitors” and Kremlin critics that they should not settle in England because of an increased risk of dying in mysterious circumstances.
> “Don’t choose England as a place to live. Whatever the reasons, whether you’re a professional traitor to the motherland or you just hate your country in your spare time, I repeat, no matter, don’t move to England,” the presenter Kirill Kleymenov said during a news programme on Channel One, state TV’s flagship station.
> “Something is not right there. Maybe it’s the climate. But in recent years there have been too many strange incidents with a grave outcome. People get hanged, poisoned, they die in helicopter crashes and fall out of windows in industrial quantities,” Kleymenov said.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tle-in-england

----------


## Neo

> Can we say "Veiled threat""?


If you're a moron, sure.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> If you're a moron, sure.


You'll have no problem then.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Okey dokey, that rules out seafood poisoning then.

*Snigger*




> Skripals poisoned with nerve agent, chemical arms watchdog confirms
> Anthony Deutsch, Guy Faulconbridge
> 5 MIN READ
> 
> 
> THE HAGUE/LONDON (Reuters) - The lethal poison that struck down a former Russian spy and his daughter last month in England was a highly pure type of Novichok nerve agent, the global chemical weapons watchdog concluded on Thursday, backing Britain’s findings.
> 
> 
> Sergei Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who betrayed dozens of agents to Britain’s MI6 foreign spy service, and his daughter were found unconscious on a bench in the English cathedral city of Salisbury on March 4.
> ...

----------


## OhOh

> ....that's an admission that they suspect a chemical weapons attack, and an admission that they think that the Syrians have them.


You yourself post the quote which includes the word "suspected". Does that not raise doubts in your mind.




> Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on  Facebook that smart missiles would destroy *any evidence of a suspected*  chemical weapons attack.


That's not an acceptance of the allegation.

----------


## OhOh

> So when the Russians say "It's OK we checked, there was no chemical attack",


The OPCW were requested by Russia and Syria at the latest UNSC meeting, they will produce the evidence, they will investigate the evidence and the OPCW report will be published and distributed. 

Russia's hand is nowhere in that process. Other than offering some protection of being bombed/struck by missiles, by ameristan and it's vassals.

----------


## Klondyke

> ...yes: they have to deal with investigative reporters


How many were allowed to the hospital? 
(same as to hospital with Litvinenko - the world knows only the one photo on his deathbed...)

----------


## OhOh

> Okey dokey, that rules out seafood poisoning then.


From your link:_

"British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson hailed the findings. “There  can be no doubt what was used and there remains no alternative  explanation about who was responsible – only Russia has the means,  motive and record,” Johnson said. 
__A German Foreign Ministry  spokesman said the OPCW confirmed Britain’s analysis. “It is now up to  Russia to finally play a constructive role and answer the open  questions,” he said. 

_
_Juergen Hardt, foreign policy spokesman for  Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservatives, said the report provided  “certainty” that the Skripals were poisoned by Novichok. 

_
_“This  finding massively increases the pressure on Moscow to fully explain the  exact course of events and background of the first nerve agent attack on  European soil,” he said. "

_The bumbling buffoon calls for Russia to confess where no evidence exists that Russia is the only possible source, that Russia is the only party who has a possible reason and is the only country in the world that has possibly used chemical weapons.

Then the German pipes up with the first use of CW in Europe. I suppose the WWI and WWII usage by all parties have been forgotten. But I suppose the claims that Russia has previously used such weapons in Europe, have been accepted as propaganda.

For both parties to be so accurate as to which CW was allegedly used, must indicate they and UK PD have samples to compare them with. If not a research project to confirm the affects of the CW would have to be undertaken which I suggest would take more than a week or so. I suggest that if there are now three proven sources the UK PD lab and the two unidentified OPCW testing labs, then it can in fact be created.

One wonder which of the other 20 plus OPCW labs also have the same ability and/or samples in store?

Will the Met police investigation have access to all these labs.

The BBC Worlds Service is now suggesting that Russia has an illegal "stockpile", which is defined by the OPCW as 1,000s of tons, as any country who has a competent lab may have. As we know although there are 20 plus OPCW labs spread around the world, Russia has been cleared by previously by OPCW and at least two, Israel and ameristan have not. That's not including any country with unlimited budget and a desire.

The name of the source awaits the Met investigation to publish it's report.

----------


## OhOh

> How many were allowed to the hospital?
> (same as to hospital with Litvinenko - the world knows only the one photo on his deathbed...)


Even if they were, do they know who the patients were or could others be easily introduced to stand-ins. The only persons would know are her family members who as we know, from the Met police, the alleged Russian citizen has stated "she" does not want to see them. 

Is she or her handlers afraid the stand-in might be exposed?

----------


## Neo

"a highly pure type of cock and bullshit"

Ftyfy harry.. if it's such a highly pure military grade how come the Skripals are still alive.? Please explain  ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The OPCW were requested by Russia and Syria at the latest UNSC meeting, they will produce the evidence, they will investigate the evidence and the OPCW report will be published and distributed. 
> 
> Russia's hand is nowhere in that process. Other than offering some protection of being bombed/struck by missiles, by ameristan and it's vassals.


Correct, Russia's hand is nowhere in that process. Because their draft attempt at taking charge was rightfully knocked back.

 :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

> Correct, Russia's hand is nowhere in that process. Because their draft attempt at taking charge was rightfully knocked back.


a good point  :bananaman:

----------


## Hugh Cow

I am getting confused OhOh. So can you tell me your theory of what happened? Also your reasons and evidence for your theory? So far as an impartial observer I would say the balance of probabilities firmly points towards Russia. 

OhOh
"Even if they were, do they know who the patients were or could others be easily introduced to stand-ins. The only persons would know are her family members who as we know, from the Met police, the alleged Russian citizen has stated "she" does not want to see them. 
Is she or her handlers afraid the stand-in might be exposed?"

You are now suggesting there is a "stand in" daughter. Again evidence? If so, would it not be advantageous for the "stand in" to directly implicate the Russians? Her only dissenting statement was to say she disagreed with what her Aunt had said. She did not reject help from the Russian embassy which would have indirectly pointed towards Russia, but said she did not need help at the moment.
What would they do when the "real Yulia" surfaces or do you think she has been "disposed of". In which case they will eventually have to get the "stand in" to "disappear" or risk exposure. The conspiracy is quickly getting very messy and harder to contain. Of course then dear old Dad cannot be allowed to survive and expose this conspiracy. Now a very messy peace of British Anti Russian propaganda. Maybe there is a few holes in my logic so feel free to point them out with  evidence to the contrary.
On the other side I am sure if Yulia's Aunt suspected her own country, she would have felt free to say Vlad tried to have my relo's murdered. I'm sure that would have enhanced her lifes' prospects in Russia no end.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Craig Murray's described the pressure on Porton Down to establish that a nerve agent was used in the alleged Skripal attack. I use 'alleged attack', because there is a fair chance that this was no attack, only a serious food poisoning from the very start.
> The Skripals had a seafood risotto pesce with king prawns, mussels and squid rings at Zizzi, as reported here in the _Daily Mail_ on March 6.
> This is a dish with a well known reputation as a source of shellfish poisoning.
> The Skripals were okay when they arrived, okay when they left, and passed out 40 minutes later on the bench with symptoms similar to a paralytic reaction from shellfish poisoning (PSP):
> Symptoms of PSP could begin within a few minutes and up to 10 hours after consumption.Symptoms of PSP can include: 
> ...
> ...
> *Respiratory difficulty, salivation, temporary blindness, nausea and vomiting may also occur.*
> *In extreme cases, paralysis of respiratory muscles may lead to respiratory arrest and death* within two to twelve hours after consumption. Seriously affected people must be hospitalized and placed under respiratory care.Another official PSP Fact Sheet (pdf) provides:
> ...


 MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning


March 8
-
Poisioned British-Russian Double-Agent Has Links To Clinton Campaign

March 12
-
Theresa May's "45 Minutes" Moment

March 14
-
Are 'Novichok' Poisons Real? - May's Claims Fall Apart

March 16
-
The British Government's 'Novichok' Drama Was Written By Whom?

March 18
-
NHS Doctor: "No Patients Have Experienced Symptoms Of Nerve Agent Poisoning In Salisbury"

March 21
-
Russian Scientists Explain 'Novichok' - High Time For Britain To Come Clean (Updated)

March 29
-
Last Act Of 'Novichok' Drama Revealed - "The Skripals' Resurrection"

March 31
-
Hillary Clinton Ordered Diplomats To Suppress 'Novichok' Discussions

April 3
-
Operation Hades Blamed Russia - A Model For The 'Novichok' Claims?

April 4
-
It's The Cover-Up" - UK Foreign Office Deletes Tweet, Posts False Transcript, Issues New Lies

April 5
-
Novi-Fog™ In Fleet Street - Truth Cut Off

----------


## Pragmatic

> Craig Murray's described the pressure on Porton Down to establish that a nerve agent was used in the alleged Skripal attack. I use 'alleged attack', because there is a fair chance that this was no attack, only a serious food poisoning from the very start.
> The Skripals had a seafood risotto pesce with king prawns, mussels and squid rings at Zizzi, as reported here in the _Daily Mail_ on March 6.
> This is a dish with a well known reputation as a source of shellfish poisoning.
> The Skripals were okay when they arrived, okay when they left, and passed out 40 minutes later on the bench with symptoms similar to a paralytic reaction from shellfish poisoning (PSP):Symptoms of PSP could begin within a few minutes and up to 10 hours after consumption.Symptoms of PSP can include: 
> ...
> ...
> *Respiratory difficulty, salivation, temporary blindness, nausea and vomiting may also occur.*
> *In extreme cases, paralysis of respiratory muscles may lead to respiratory arrest and death* within two to twelve hours after consumption. Seriously affected people must be hospitalized and placed under respiratory care.Another official PSP Fact Sheet (pdf) provides:_What is the treatment?_Unfortunately, there is no antidote for PSP toxins; however, *supportive medical care can be life saving*. For example, persons whose breathing muscles become paralyzed can be put on a mechanical respirator and given oxygen to help them breath, and people who develop a cardiac arrhythmia (abnormal heart rhythm) can be given medications to stabilize their heart rhythm.The similarity with symptoms and effect derived from a nerve agent are striking, but no surprise:
> In fact the substance at work in a case of paralytic seafood poison is a neurotoxin called Saxitoxin (STX) which is among the most potent poisons found in nature. It works the same way as a nerve agent: It acts on the neurons, preventing normal cellular function and leading to paralysis and in worst case death. In fact Saxitoxin is so potent that it was weaponized by the U.S. and used as a chemical weapon - a nerve agent.
> ...


 MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning


March 8
-
Poisioned British-Russian Double-Agent Has Links To Clinton Campaign

March 12
-
Theresa May's "45 Minutes" Moment

March 14
-
Are 'Novichok' Poisons Real? - May's Claims Fall Apart

March 16
-
The British Government's 'Novichok' Drama Was Written By Whom?

March 18
-
NHS Doctor: "No Patients Have Experienced Symptoms Of Nerve Agent Poisoning In Salisbury"

March 21
-
Russian Scientists Explain 'Novichok' - High Time For Britain To Come Clean (Updated)

March 29
-
Last Act Of 'Novichok' Drama Revealed - "The Skripals' Resurrection"

March 31
-
Hillary Clinton Ordered Diplomats To Suppress 'Novichok' Discussions

April 3
-
Operation Hades Blamed Russia - A Model For The 'Novichok' Claims?

April 4
-
It's The Cover-Up" - UK Foreign Office Deletes Tweet, Posts False Transcript, Issues New Lies

April 5
-
Novi-Fog™ In Fleet Street - Truth Cut Off

----------


## harrybarracuda

> MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning


Er..... no it isn't, and it never was.

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

> I am getting confused OhOh.


Join the club. Being confused affects you as an individual. Having a nuclear armed countries accusing another nuclear armed country of an act of war affects many people. There is a difference. My opinion and possible scenarios expressed here affects nobody. 

Unfortunately UK has presented a case which is full of holes. The masses are beginning to wonder.

As regards to the Russian lady, we have a statement issued by the Met police. The statement is a piece of paper, presumably signed by the lady. Have you ever heard of forgeries or a person signing something under duress? Obviously by your reaction such an act by a nuclear armed clique, kept in a position of power by bribing some elected politicians, not. Review a court house, you know where cases of dispute are judged. Witnesses are cross examined, facts challenged and lawyers sum up, hoping to sway the jury. A jury of citizens, from the population, retires to consider and eventually returns a verdit. That procedure is the basis of law.

I have seen nothing like that in this case and as such IMHO, the due process has not been followed.

This announcement could be reinforced if the lady herself made an appearance in front of MSM. No questions, no pressure. Care to explain why this has not happened. Or let enquiring minds postulate. Such a simple course of action, quick to organise and would put many minds at rest. 

Are you personally content with 'arry's acceptance that "secrets that cannot be presented to the citizens" override due process? We have seen many instances in history that government allegations have been at best sexed up, at worst deliberate lies to protect a ruling clique's position.

Are you OK with a UK citizen being kidnapped by Thai police, hidden, incommunicado in a Thai military base and the Thai government issuing a statement "Nothing is going one here, go away"? I suggest most would be outraged, but not you or 'arry, it seems.




> The conspiracy is quickly getting very messy and harder to contain.


The purported UK authorities, NHS, Police, political leaders "facts" likewise. IMHO.

----------


## tomcat

> The masses are beginning to wonder


...rather grandiose self-reference...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ...rather grandiose self-reference...


For "masses", read "tin foil hat wearing whackjobs".

----------


## OhOh

> ...rather grandiose self-reference...





> For "masses", read "tin foil hat wearing whackjobs".





A YouGov poll, presumably a cross section of the UK citizens or some might say,  "The masses".  :Smile: 



*YouGov/Times poll on military intervention in Syria*12 Apr 2018


_"This morning there was a new YouGov/Times poll asking about whether Britain should take part in military intervention in Syria.
__A solid majority of the public believe that there probably was a  chemical weapons attack by the Syrian government or their allies – 61%  agree, compared to 5% who believe that the attack was a fabrication, and  5% who believe neither claim. 29% do not know.

_
_This does not, however, translate into support for military action.  By 51% to 17% people oppose sending Britain and allied troops into Syria  to remove Assad.

 The more likely option of a cruise missile attack on  Syrian military targets also faces fairly solid opposition – just 22%  would support it, 43% are opposed. 

_
_60% of people say they would support enforcing a no-fly zone over  Syria, though given the opposition to other military options one  suspects this could be because a “no fly zone” is a rather peaceful  sounding euphemism for something that would in practice also involve  attacking anti-air defences or the Syrian air force. The full tabs for  the polling are here."

UK Polling Report
_

----------


## harrybarracuda

> A YouGov poll, presumably a cross section of the UK citizens or some might say,  "The masses". 
> 
> 
> 
> *YouGov/Times poll on military intervention in Syria*
> 
> 
> 12 Apr 2018
> 
> ...



Seems to me the masses have a pretty good idea.

_A solid majority of the public believe that there probably was a chemical weapons attack by the Syrian government or their allies_

----------


## HuangLao

The dumbing-down and deep conditioning continues....

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The dumbing-down and deep conditioning continues....


You can't get any dumber Jeff, but your hair probably does need a wash.

----------


## Klondyke

> A solid majority of the public believe that there probably was a chemical weapons attack by the Syrian government or their allies


"Majority of public" where? The West? Also the East with China and Africa? South America either? What was what China said the other day about the West size? (my post few days ago)

----------


## Neo

> For "masses", read "tin foil hat wearing whackjobs".


Is this thread harry you are the tin foil hat wearing whackjob  :smiley laughing:

----------


## lom

> believe that there probably was a chemical weapons attack


So they don't believe there was an attack, they believe that there *probably* was one. 
Basically it means that they have no idea..  Eeny, meeny, miny, moe..

----------


## OhOh

> Majority of public" where?


It's a poll of UK citizens. Exclusively.

'arry missed the "*probably*" again. As opposed to the factual statements, "_oppose sending Britain......."_ and _"43% are opposed......"_

----------


## HuangLao

> "Majority of public" where? The West? Also the East with China and Africa? South America either? What was what China said the other day about the West size? (my post few days ago)



Majority of the public [worldwide], refers to coded Harry-speak as _only us, the civilised English-speaking superior Anglo-American world. _ 
A backward mindset that keeps comforting company here and other venues.

----------


## Troy

^ Your inferiority complex is showing again Jeff...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Is this thread harry you are the tin foil hat wearing whackjob


You appear to be letting Klondyke dumb down your English Neo.

 :bananaman:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> "Majority of public" where? The West? Also the East with China and Africa? South America either? What was what China said the other day about the West size? (my post few days ago)


Oi fucknuts, I know you can't read, but it was not me that decided the "Masses" consisted of the respondents to a Yougov poll.

Try and fucking keep up will you.

----------


## Klondyke

> Oi fucknuts, I know you can't read, but it was not me that decided the "Masses" consisted of the respondents to a Yougov poll.
> 
> Try and fucking keep up will you.


It seems that you have your own mathematics...

----------


## Klondyke

> Oi fucknuts, I know you can't read, but it was not me that decided the "Masses" consisted of the respondents to a Yougov poll.
> 
> Try and fucking keep up will you.


My post o f29.3.2018:
Chinese comment:

*Russian diplomat expulsions signal crude side of Western intention

*The West is only a small fraction of the world and is nowhere near the global representative it once thought it was. The silenced minorities within the international community need to realize this and prove just how deep their understanding is of such a realization by proving it to the world through action. With the Skripal case, the general public does not know the truth, and the British government has yet to provide a shred of evidence justifying their allegations against Russia. 

It is firmly believed that accusations levied by one country to another that are not the end results of a thorough and professional investigation should not be encouraged. Simultaneously expelling diplomats is a form of uncivilized behavior that needs to be abolished immediately.Russian diplomat expulsions signal crude side of Western intention - Global Times

----------


## Dragonfly

what a poor spectacle the US, UK and France is showing to the world

they lose their credibility, for the UK, they don't have any left, France didn't have one in the first place since DeGaulles, and the US is spending theirs like there is no tomorrow  :Smile: 

fucking awesome I say  :Smile:

----------


## david44

After chemical attack on a (fill the gap) another state decides to attack.

Imagine teh Russians had a few small strikes on London Paris and DC I'd imagine it would upset a few, however Trumpy couldn't even wait as Mossad pokes the flailing failing incompetent into a war with Iran.

Assadis a bad bastard but what difference would waiting for IPCW inspection to confirm ? Then strike?

The post Trump era looks no better after  brief glance at Pence and Bolton.

----------


## OhOh

> After chemical attack on a (fill the gap) another state decides to attack.


But in best  'arry style, the 'evidence" is classifies/sexed-up/outright lies. Pick what ever takes your fancy.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Oh calm down chaps.

Message was sent. Message was received.

Assad is on Vlad's naughty step for making him look like a c u n t.

----------


## OhOh

^For what reason?

----------


## Farangrakthai

> Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
> 
> 
> Assad is on Vlad's naughty step for making him look like a c u n t.
> 
> 
> ^For what reason?


harry's happily and proudly aboard the "assad did it" train with bsnub.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^For what reason?


For drawing the civilised world's ire upon him. Stop pretending to be so dumb.

----------


## HuangLao

> For drawing the civilised world's ire upon him. Stop pretending to be so dumb.



Civilised world.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  

The irony withholding.

----------


## Farangrakthai

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore
> 
> Thousands Syrian rebel fighters trained and equipped by U.S., U.K. and Arab governments in an effort to topple the Syrian government.





> the civilised world'


the us/uk ("civilized world") sent spies into syria to support terrorists to try to overthrow assad and failed, leaving more than 600,000 syrians dead and millions of refugees spread in neighboring countries and europe. 

very civilized indeed, harry.




> https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...gh_damage.html
> 
> Columbia University professor Jeffrey D. Sachs, a writer of foreign policy textbooks and special adviser to the United Nations, issued a special plea to President Trump to stop the war in Syria now by ending the CIA's covert arming and funding of rebel forces. 
> 
> Sachs explained: "This [Syrian civil war] happened because of [the United States]. These 600,000 [dead] are not just incidental. [The United States] started a war to overthrow a regime. 
> 
> It was covert. It was Operation: Timber Sycamore, people can look it up, the CIA operation. Together with Saudi Arabia, still shrouded in secrecy... A major war effort shrouded in secrecy, never debated by Congress, never explained to the American people. Signed by President Obama. Never explained."

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Civilised world.
> 
>  
> 
> The irony withholding.


Fuck off Jeff.

----------


## OhOh

A new rabbit hole opens, Alice in Wonderland - The Directors Cut. WP ace reporter heard him say it, allegedly.

*Russia: Trace of Western-made nerve agent seen in UK samples*

_"MOSCOW — Russia’s foreign minister says Moscow has received a  document from a Swiss lab that analyzed the samples in the nerve agent  poisoning of an ex-Russian spy, which points at a Western-designed nerve  agent as a likely cause.

__Minister Sergey Lavrov said Saturday  that Moscow received the confidential information from the laboratory in  Spiez, Switzerland, that analyzed samples from the site of the March 4  poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the English city of  Salisbury.

__He said the analysis was done at the request of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

__The  OPCW’s report confirmed British findings that the Skripals were  poisoned with a military-grade nerve agent, but didn’t say who was  responsible.
_
_Britain has accused Russia of poisoning them with a Soviet-designed agent, an accusation that Moscow denies.
_
_Lavrov  said the document indicated that the samples from Salisbury contained  BZ nerve agent and its precursor. He said BZ was part of chemical  arsenals of the U.S., Britain and other NATO countries, while the Soviet  Union and Russia never developed the agent.

_
_Lavrov  added that the Swiss lab also pointed at the presence of the nerve  agent A234 in the samples, but added that the lab noted that its  presence in the samples appeared strange, given the substance’s high  volatility and the relatively long period between the poisoning and the  sample-taking.

_
_He noted that OPCW’s report didn’t contain any  mention of BZ, adding that Russia will ask the chemical weapons watchdog  for an explanation."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...966_story.html
_

----------


## tomcat

> Lavrov said





> Lavrov added


... :rofl: ...

----------


## Dragonfly

right, because when Trump says it or May says it, it's credible ?  :rofl:

----------


## Pragmatic

I see a report in the papers today that the reason why the Skripol's survived the nerve agent attack was because of rain. Apparently the rain diluted the agent that was smeared on their front door handle.    :smiley laughing:

----------


## Dragonfly

May and her Mi6 agents certainly know how to be creative with facts  :Smile:

----------


## lom

> I see a report in the papers today that the reason why the Skripol's survived the nerve agent attack was because of rain. Apparently the rain diluted the agent that was smeared on their front door handle.


That's wrong, the rain diluted the nerve agent _which they think_ was smeared on their front door handle

----------


## tomcat

...^I admire your appreciation of nuance...

----------


## Dragonfly

> ...^I admire your appreciation of nuance...


and I admire your credulity  :Smile: 

you probably don't know what the word means  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

Some astute comments, pages 7 and 8 on the recent Russian statement regarding the Swiss OPCW lab findings.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...rings/#respond

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Some astute comments, pages 7 and 8 on the recent Russian statement regarding the Swiss OPCW lab findings.
> 
> https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...rings/#respond


"Russian statement". That boy Murray laps it up faster than you do.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

^Which "comments" are you referring too?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^Which "comments" are you referring too?


You need to go to Specsavers my son. I never mentioned "comments", you did.

----------


## Neo

> Some astute comments, pages 7 and 8 on the recent Russian statement regarding the Swiss OPCW lab findings.
> 
> https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...rings/#respond


Some interesting comments and some just sardonic like this.. 




> Emboldened by their control of the Security Council. the May Junta, the American Mob and the French Poodle are now pressing for a further UN resolution pinning the blame on Assad and compelling him to cease using chemical weapons. When did you last beat your wife?
> 
> It is by now clear that this is not about the Skripals – forget the Skripals, forget Swiss laboratories, forget Dr Ste[hen Davies – they have served their purpose, and you will not hear of them again
> 
> This is also not about violation of the UN Charter – yada yada yada get over it already – let’s move on and, just in case anyone lags behind, every time a reference is made to the precepts of International Law, just sidetrack them with some waffle about how chemical weapons are against International law too, and the perps have to be brought to Justice etc etc etc. Some International Laws – those which aren’t documented and don’t require evidence – are more important than others (those such as the UN Charter, the CWC and the principles of Due Process and Customary International Law / Natural Justice)
> 
> This is not about Chemical weapons: we trust the OPCW, don’t we, but if the say that Russia has none, and that Syria is clean well, we can just ignore that and claim those nations cheated. 1sr@el? Oh, there you go on about 1sr@el – let’s talk about “Butcher Assad” instead. And the USA being behind with disposing of its own chemical weapons stocks? – they haven’t got any money, silly – they just spent the last $100 million on bombarding a couple of derelict building in Syria. Do please try to keep up!
> 
> This is not about poor innocent civilians – as Craig points out, we only care about them if to do so helps us advance some political agenda or other. Are you worried about deaths along the border in Gaza? – ok, well let’s manufacture some casualties in Douma to even the score up a little and distract your attention. And please, don’t start banging on and on and on and on about Yemen! That’s Iran’s fault, ok – they made us sell cluster munitions to the Saudi’s (and its not as if we don’t need the money – putting MBS up in 5 start hotels during his shopping trips to Paris and the USA doesn’t come cheap!)
> ...

----------


## tomcat

> Why can’t the Russians and the Chinese just roll over an accept this


...good question...

----------


## Neo

yaaaaawn... fuck off Tomcat

You make Jeff seem relevant

----------


## tomcat

> fuck off Tomcat


... :rofl: ...I understand your frustration...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> yaaaaawn... fuck off Tomcat
> 
> You make Jeff seem relevant


You blew it right there.

Nothing in the entire universe will ever make Jeff seem relevant.

----------


## lom

> ...^I admire your appreciation of nuance...


Aah, you noticed that. Good, I have now adjusted my rating of you accordingly.

----------


## Neo

> You blew it right there.
> 
> Nothing in the entire universe will ever make Jeff seem relevant.


True.. just as no matter how hard you try snub will never seem intelligent  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Some astute comments, pages 7 and 8 on the recent Russian statement regarding the Swiss OPCW lab findings.
> 
> https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...rings/#respond



Here are some really astute comments that prove that Russia is lying again and Craig Murray is a gullible, attention-seeking dickhead.

This is the bit where OhOh changes his mind and says that Lab is rubbish or they're lying.




> Spiez Laboratory, the Swiss Federal Institute for Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Protection, denied their report cast doubt on whether novichok was used.
> In a statement, the Lab said: "Only OPCW can comment this assertion. But we can repeat what we stated 10 days ago: We have no doubt that Porton Down has identified Novichock.
> [Porton Down] - like Spiez - is a designated lab of the OPCW.
> "The standards in verification are so rigid that one can trust the findings."


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-cast-12367077

https://twitter.com/SpiezLab/status/...-cast-12367077

----------


## OhOh

see next post

----------


## OhOh

> This is the bit where OhOh changes his mind and says that Lab is rubbish or they're lying.


Where, here on this thread or others, regarding this topic has the above, highlited in yellow so as not to continue with your confusion,  occured?

I am presuming your use of _"Lab is rubbish or they're lying"_ is referring to the Swiss lab.

I appears to be Spiez Laboratory, the Swiss Federal Institute for Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Protection, is protecting themselves, their worldwide reputation.





> Spiez Laboratory, the Swiss Federal Institute for Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Protection, denied their report cast doubt on whether novichok was used.
> In a statement, the Lab said: "Only OPCW can comment this assertion. But we can repeat what we stated 10 days ago: We have no doubt that Porton Down has identified Novichock.
> [Porton Down] - like Spiez - is a designated lab of the OPCW.
> "The standards in verification are so rigid that one can trust the findings."


From you first link:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-cast-12367077

*"Here's what the Spiez lab said
*

_Spiez Laboratory, the Swiss Federal Institute for Nuclear, Biological  and Chemical Protection, denied their report cast doubt on whether  novichok was used. 

__In a statement, the Lab said: "Only OPCW can  comment this assertion. But we can repeat what we stated 10 days ago: We  have no doubt that Porton Down has identified Novichock. 

[Porton Down] - like Spiez - is a designated lab of the OPCW. "The standards in verification are so rigid that one can trust the findings."

_1. The Swiss lab states, "Only OPCW can  comment this assertion". 

The OPCW speaks for itself, we cannot comment on what the OPCW publishes. Refer to the previous Syrian CW attack. OPCW accepted compramised "evidence and published a  report blaming Syria from a tainted, non recognise COC, source.

Covering their own world reputation as a trusted organisation, not the OPCW's , possibly already compromised, reputation. Refer to the previous Syrian CW attack. OPCW accepted compramised "evidence" and published a report blaming Syria from a tainted, non recognise COC, source.

2. The Swiss lab states, "_We  have no doubt that Porton Down has identified Novichock. ". 

_When, 10, 15 years ago ? From which samples, the one UK authorities gave them, via OPCW, or the ones taken by OPCW from the alleged CW "patients" and 3 week old environmental sites? 

Again, covering their own world reputation as a trusted organisation, not the OPCW's, possibly already compromised, position. Refer to the previous Syrian CW attack. OPCW accepted and compramised "evidence" published a  report blaming Syria from a tainted, non recognise COC, source.


3. The Swiss lab states, _"__[Porton Down] - like Spiez - is a designated lab of the OPCW. The standards in verification are so rigid that one can trust the findings.". 

_It's "own standards" as an OPCW designated lab, whether PD adherers to them and is prepared to go to court to protect it's reputation, is for PD to announce.

From your second link, which probably is where Daily Mirror took it without understanding the English language subtleties available to some educated foreign English speakers:

https://twitter.com/SpiezLab/status/985243574123057152/photo/1?tfw_creator=MikeySmith&tfw_site=MirrorPolitics&r  ef_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirro  r.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fno-swiss-lab-hasnt-cast-12367077

_"Only OPCW can comment this assertion.  But we can repeat what we stated  10 days ago: We have no doubt that Porton Down has identified Novichock.  PD - like Spiez -  is a designated lab of the OPCW. The standards in  verification are so rigid that one can trust the findings"

_Looks to be the same, so see above_.

_Here is a link to a PDF which descibes the OPCW analysis procedure, possibly page 15 may "clarify" your understanding:_

https://www.unog.ch/80256EDD006B8954...nated_labs.pdf_

----------


## harrybarracuda

Not sure what all that waffle is supposed to prove.

Other than that Russia is lying again.

----------


## bsnub

> True.. just as no matter how hard you try snub will never seem intelligent


Dude you constantly reference RT/Sputnik as sources and you have the audacity to talk about intelligence?  :smiley laughing:

----------


## tomcat

> you constantly reference RT/Sputnik as sources


...rusbots don't appear to have much of a choice...rt/chinatimes/sana, etc...

----------


## Neo

Show me where I have constantly quoted RT or Sputnik snub... if I have quoted anything it's from links already quoted. I don't need my consent manufactured by either side, it's clear enough to anyone with a mind of their own that you're just Trump apologists at this stage.. you've sold out and switched off, sucking off the MSM nipple.

----------


## tomcat

> it's clear enough to anyone with a mind of their own that you're just Trump apologists at this stage


... :rofl: ...interesting conclusion...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ......interesting conclusion...


Using his own logic, it's clear that Neo doesn't actually have a mind of his own!

 :Smile:

----------


## tomcat

> Using his own logic, it's clear that Neo doesn't actually have a mind of his own!


...that has already been amply demonstrated...

----------


## OhOh

A Salisbury Councillor suggests CCTV recodings have been handed to the "inquiry", whatever that is.

*Investigators are studying high-quality CCTV footage of Sergei Skripal, says council leader*

_"HIGH quality CCTV footage of Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the  moments before they collapsed has been passed to investigators probing  the attack of a Russian former double agent. 

__   The images are understood to be clear enough to see people's faces or read a car number plate. There were fears the city's £400,000 CCTV system may not have been working after it was besieged by technical problems. 

_
_   But Matthew Dean, leader of Salisbury City Council, said the issues had been resolved around a month ago. Crucially, the coverage includes The Maltings area, where Mr Skripal,  66, and Yulia, 33, were found collapsed on a bench eight days ago. 

_
_   "The CCTV system was fully functional and a great deal of footage has been shared with the enquiry," he said. "I can confirm some very high quality footage was shared on the Monday with the enquiry." 

_
_    But Mr Dean would not comment on whether the cameras were manned"_

----------


## Klondyke

Too bad. Unfortunately, sometimes the cameras stop working in "crucial" situations (e.g. 9/11 Pentagon, etc)

----------


## Neo

> ...that has already been amply demonstrated...


Can't work out if you're snubs mate, harry's cheerleader or misskit's pet troll cos you haven't added anything of interest to this thread, just wittering on like old Dr Andy.. boring and tedious.

----------


## Neo

> Using his own logic, it's clear that Neo doesn't actually have a mind of his own!


You think its ok for Trump to bomb Syria against international law q.e.d. you're a Trump apologist, or as your best mate snub would say.. you suck Trump's cock. 

 ::chitown::

----------


## Klondyke

> Trump to bomb Syria against international law


Not only the international law but his own country's law.  Same case in UK and France. 

However, all this kind of people, who cares about a law?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You think its ok for Trump to bomb Syria against international law q.e.d. you're a Trump apologist, or as your best mate snub would say.. you suck Trump's cock.


Stop with your perverted fantasies, and stop being an idiot.

There is a reason I refer to him as "Baldy Orange Cunto"  you complete moron.

 :Smile:

----------


## bsnub

> cos you haven't added anything of interest to this thread


And you have? Smh




> You think its ok for Trump to bomb Syria against  international law q.e.d. you're a Trump apologist, or as your best mate  snub would say


You really are an idiot. Where did I ever say that I supported tRump boming Syria? I am a tRump apologist? Pull your head out Neo.

----------


## Neo

> Stop with your perverted fantasies, and stop being an idiot.
> 
> There is a reason I refer to him as "Baldy Orange Cunto"  you complete moron.


Bomb them you baldy orange cunto gargle gargle gargle raise my stocks big daddy  :bj3:  

You're a sick man harry  :Smile:

----------


## Neo

snub ...  :Hitwithrock:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Bomb them you baldy orange cunto gargle gargle gargle raise my stocks big daddy  
> 
> You're a sick man harry


Now you're just waffling as well. It seems to be the _modus operandus_ of the Putin girls choir when they run out of ideas (which is often).

----------


## OhOh

> Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
> ^Which "comments" are you referring too?
> You need to go to Specsavers my son. I never mentioned "comments", you did.





> Now you're just waffling


Exactly my point. A headline dick. 



All hat and no cattle.

----------


## OhOh

Here is part the public report produced by OPCW regarding the Salisbury Incident.:

_6. The  team  requested  and  received  splits  of  samples  taken  by  British  authorities  for delivery  to  the  OPCW  Laboratory  in  Rijswijk,  the  Netherlands,  and  subsequent analysis  by  OPCW  designated  laboratories.  This  was  done  for  comparative  purposes and to verify the analysis of the United Kingdom. 
_
_7. The  team  was  briefed  on  the  identity  of  the  toxic  chemical  identified  by  the  United Kingdom and was able to review analytical results and data from chemical analysis of  biomedical samples collected by the British authorities from the affected individuals, as well as from environmental samples collected on site.

8. The  results  of  analysis  of  biomedical  samples  conducted  by  OPCW  designated laboratories  demonstrate  the  exposure  of  the  three  hospitalised   individuals  to  this toxic chemical.

9. The results of analysis of the environmental samples  conducted by OPCW designated  laboratories demonstrate the presence of  this toxic chemical in the samples.

10. The  results  of  analysis  by  the  OPCW  designated  laboratories  of  environmental  and  biomedical samples collected by the OPCW  team confirm the findings of the United  Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and  severely injured three people._ 

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/...12-2018_e_.pdf


Bear in mind this is the public version not the version available to the OPCW States representative. Also the "Inspected State Party" (ISP), the UK, can request changes to be made:

"Within the next 20 days, a draft final inspection report  must  be  made  available  to  the  ISP,  which  has the right to propose changes to it. The Secretariat is to consider the suggested changes and, using its discretion, adopt them wherever possible. "

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/Fact_Sheets/English/Fact_Sheet_5_-_Inspections.pdf

Some points of concern to some interested parties:

1. The OPCW designated labs were requested to analyse the samples (Item 6)
2. The OPCW designated labs were requested to verify the analysis of the UK. (Item 6)
3. The OPCW designated labs were briefed on the toxic chemical to identify/confirm. (Item 7)
4. The OPCW designated labs results of the analysed biomedical samples demonstrate the three victims were exposed to the UK claimed toxic chemical. (Item 8)
5. The OPCW designated labs results of the analysed environmental samples demonstrate the three victims were exposed to the UK claimed toxic chemical. (Item  9)
6. The OPCW designated labs results that the toxic chemical they were asked to look for was found in the samples provided. 
7. The published lab results do not report any other toxic chemical possibly found and conclude the toxic chemical, identified as the target by the UK, and severely injured three people. (Item 10)

Some interested parties have suggested other chemicals were found, which could be the culprit, not the UK suggested one. Some are suggesting the "high quality" of the UK suggested toxic chemical, indicates "tampering", due to absence of natural degradation in a human over time.

One hopes the full analysis confirms that *only* the UK suggested toxic chemical was identified in the OPCW samples, delivered to the OPCE designated labs.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Some interested parties have suggested other chemicals were found


Translation: Russia lied again.

----------


## Neo

:mid:

----------


## OhOh

> Translation: Russia lied again.


Only time will clarify the truth.

----------


## Pragmatic

Dr Rahaibani claims that there was no chemical attack and the video, post bombing, was genuine regarding children suffering shortness of breath, but says they were suffering from Hypoxia and not chemicals.           https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2018/04/17/no-evidence-of-chemical-attack-in-douma-doctor/

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Dr Rahaibani claims that there was no chemical attack and the video, post bombing, was genuine regarding children suffering shortness of breath, but says they were suffering from Hypoxia and not chemicals.           https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2018/04/17/no-evidence-of-chemical-attack-in-douma-doctor/


Yes, try and keep up.

We all know that Russia has kept the OPCW OUT of Douma because "it's not safe", but conveniently let an anti-American hack in to interview a stooge.

----------


## Pragmatic

The 'Hypoxia' was caused by implosions sucking out the air in the underground tunnels the children were sheltering. Nothing more nothing less.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The 'Hypoxia' was caused by implosions sucking out the air in the underground tunnels the children were sheltering. Nothing more nothing less.


I'm glad you put it in quotes.

It means you know it's bollocks.

----------


## Pragmatic

> We all know that Russia has kept the OPCW OUT of Douma because "it's not safe", but conveniently let an anti-American hack in to interview a stooge.


 You know that for a fact, or a complete guess?   :smiley laughing:

----------


## OhOh

> We all know that Russia has kept the OPCW OUT of Douma because "it's not safe"


I believe the OPCW move when the, now in Syria, UN  Department  of  Safety  and  Security (UNDSS) personnel, say so. Not on any other groups opinion.

"I hope that all necessary arrangements will be made through the UNDSS to allow the team to deploy to Douma as soon as possible. "

From my link in #909.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You know that for a fact, or a complete guess?


We know they have kept the OPCW out because it's been widely reported.

We know Fisk hates the West with a passion because it's all he ever writes about (usually from the hotel pool).

And we know he miraculously was allowed to go where it "wasn't safe" and interview someone who just happened to back the Syrian government cover story.

And you believe it?

Wanna buy a bridge?

----------


## Pragmatic

> Wanna buy a bridge?


 Is it big?

----------


## Neo

harry the right wing stooge... what a sad little man

----------


## harrybarracuda

> harry the right wing stooge... what a sad little man


Putin girls choir call others stooges.... Waffle at 11.

----------


## OhOh

> And we know he miraculously was allowed to go where it "wasn't safe"


Mr. Fisk decides for himself what he writes (2g/word I believe), where he goes (he's had his own flack jacket for 20 years) and who he talks too (multilingual?). 

The OPCW team are told by their own OPCW UNDSS where and when they can move, Health and Safety it's called or possibly the OPCW Insurers on site rep.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Mr. Fisk decides for himself what he writes (2g/word I believe), where he goes (he's had his own flack jacket for 20 years) and who he talks too (multilingual?). 
> 
> The OPCW team are told by their own OPCW UNDSS where and when they can move, Health and Safety it's called or possibly the OPCW Insurers on site rep.


Mr. Fisk would not have entered Douma without the aid of the Syrian government. It is surrounded, remember?

And yes, Mr. Fisk can choose what he wants to report... and for a long time now he has chosen anything that suits his preferred narrative rather than objective reporting.

----------


## Begbie

> Mr. Fisk would not have entered Douma without the aid of the Syrian government. It is surrounded, remember?
> J
> And yes, Mr. Fisk can choose what he want to report... and for a long time now he has chosen anything that suits his preferred narrative rather than objective reporting.


The irony of that last sentence obviously eludes you. 

Fisk entered Douma after the Syrian government had retaken the area. He states clearly in the article that the doctor who said there was no gas attack wasnt present at the time of the supposed attack and that those who were had left thr area in need order to report to the OPCW. He also talked to a number of civilians and nobody agreed that there had been a gas attack. 

However as his fairly neutral reporting does not suit your preferred narrative you, as usual attack the messenger.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The irony of that last sentence obviously eludes you. 
> 
> Fisk entered Douma after the Syrian government had retaken the area. He states clearly in the article that the doctor who said there was no gas attack wasn’t present at the time of the supposed attack and that those who were had left thr area in need order to report to the OPCW. He also talked to a number of civilians and nobody agreed that there had been a gas attack. 
> 
> However as his fairly neutral reporting does not suit your preferred narrative you, as usual attack the messenger.


He talked of being escorted by two "Syrian friends" into an area control by Syrians and Russians.

I'm pretty sure anyone around that lot is going to say "Yes, there was a gas attack".

And yet, with infinite irony, he labels his piece "The Search for Truth....".

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

And yet here's the supposed real truth:




> At the same time, inspectors from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) are currently blocked from coming here to the site of the alleged gas attack themselves, ostensibly because they lacked the correct UN permits.


The Russians and Syrians know the shelf life of chemical weapons. They will know exactly how long they take to break down after use.

Hence the entirely predictable delays in allowing the OPCW in.

Of course Fisk claims it's because they did not have the right "UN Permits" when a little bit of delving would probably find that they were waiting for their security team to get clearance to enter Douma.

"Neutral reporting" my arse.

----------


## Klondyke

^twist doctor

----------


## harrybarracuda

Meanwhile the OPCW investigation team are STILL not able to enter the site, _which is completely under the control of Russia and Syria_, because....




> On Wednesday, a source told Reuters news agency that OPCW Director General Ahmet Uzumcu had informed a closed-door meeting in The Hague that the security team came under gunfire while doing reconnaissance in Douma.


Which I also predicted five or six days ago.

What a fucking surprise.

They are so utterly predictable and the Putin girls choir will swallow it whole.

Syria 'chemical attack': OPCW Douma visit 'delayed by security issue' - BBC News

----------


## Neo

they came under gunfire from US backed rebels  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  first the US bombs the area to make it more difficult to access, then they stir up the rebels to take potshots at the investigators... what is the US trying to stop them from finding out..?

----------


## baldrick

twas but common flu

same as putin , when he was fcuked by monkeys in the DRC

----------


## harrybarracuda

> they came under gunfire from US backed rebels  first the US bombs the area to make it more difficult to access, then they stir up the rebels to take potshots at the investigators... what is the US trying to stop them from finding out..?


You have such a cretinous selective memory.




> Meanwhile the OPCW investigation team are STILL not able to enter the site, _which is completely under the control of Russia and Syria, because...._


Who was it who posted the staged "celebrations" from Douma?

There are no "US rebels" there you moron.

Syria has been crowing about driving them out.

Fuckwit, you can't even remember your own baloney.

 :rofl:

----------


## Neo

harry getting all sweary and frothy as usual when he's talking shit

----------


## Hugh Cow



----------


## OhOh

The statement from the Russian OPCW rep. Still bitching about the UK and highlighting some known "problems".

*Statement of A.Shulgin at the OPCW EC - P.R.  OF RUSSIA TO THE OPCW*


P.R.  OF RUSSIA TO THE OPCW/Statement of A.Shulgin at the OPCW EC 






_"Permanent  Representation of the Russian Federation to the Organization for the  Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) is working in The Hague (the  Kingdom of the Netherlands) on a permanent basis. It is involved in  consultation with the Technical Secretariat of the OPCW, other  delegations, and on behalf of the Russian Federation participates in the  activities conducted by Organization, and provides connection between  Technical Secretariat and Russian National Authority (Ministry of  Industry and Trade of Russia) responsible for implementing the  Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production,  Stockpiling and Use of Chemical Weapons and on their Destruction. 

Sessions  of policy-making organs of the OPCW are held on a regular basis  throughout the year: there are three sessions of the Executive Council  and one session of Conference of the State-Parties at the end of a year.  Russian Permanent Representation to the OPCW informs Ministry of  Foreign Affairs of Russia about developments in discussions on current  issues during informal consultations conducted in the intercessional  period and supports Russian delegations which come to take part in the  work of the policy-making organs. 


__Mr. Chairperson,__I  would like to start my speech with the words that belong to the great  thinker Martin Luther, A lie is like a snowball: the further you roll  it, the bigger it becomes.

__This  wise aphorism is fully applicable to politics. He who has chosen the  path of deception will have to lie again and again, making up  explanations for discrepancies, spreading disinformation and doing  forgery, desperately using all means to cover the tracks of the lies and  to hide the truth.
__The  United Kingdom has entered this slippery path. We can clearly see all  of this on the example of the Skripal case fabricated by the British  authorities, this poorly disguised anti-Russian provocation accompanied  by an unprecedented propaganda campaign, taken up by a group of  countries, and the finalized unprecedented expulsion of diplomats under a  far-fetched pretext. Please, do not try to pass this group for the  international community  it is far from that.
_
_It  has already been a month since the Prime Minister of Great Britain  Theresa May put forward some extremely serious accusations against  Russia of the alleged use of chemical weapons. We have been waiting for  an explanation for a long time, counting on our British colleagues to  eventually back up these loud statements with some at least halfway  intelligible facts. We have repeatedly proposed to them to work together  on the investigation of the events in Salisbury, have been requesting  information. The response consisted in haughty, arrogant statements  saying Russia should confess to the crime.
__The  British side continues to scatter absolutely unfounded accusations,  disseminating more and more new, often senseless, versions of the  events. The British politicians and officials simply cannot stop anymore  and continue pouring down new torrents of lies. London sabotages every  attempt to conduct a truly objective investigation into the incident in  Salisbury with the participation of Russian experts. They have  classified everything, supposedly conducting their own national  investigation. Although the responsible have already been designated.
__Why  they are doing this is obvious. Great Britain strives to avoid at all  costs the establishment of the truth about the events, hide all  evidence, which could unmask them. They are simply playing for time.  Because the further it gets  the more difficult it will be to figure  out what really did (or did not) happen in Salisbury.
_
_The  lie always fears the truth, for the truth is the most terrifying weapon  against lies. Let us, therefore, turn to the naked facts which  demonstrate how insolently and clumsily the British government is  disseminating the insinuations regarding the Skripal case.


__LIE №1

__Russia  does not respond to any legitimate questions made by the United Kingdom  on March 12, 2018 through the Ambassador of the Russian Federation to  London A.V. Yakovenko (some of the allies of the United Kingdom keep  repeating this like a mantra).
__I  would like to remind you that the British side has suggested that we  confess to one of the two versions it has made up: either the poisoning  of Sergey and Yulia Skripal was a purposeful action by Russia, or Russia  has lost control over the arsenal of chemical weapons it allegedly has.  Despite the brazen nature of this ultimatum, we definitely did not  ignore it, but immediately gave an unequivocal answer: Russia has  nothing to do with the chemical incident in Salisbury. Great Britain has  not contacted us with any other questions.


__LIE №2

__Great Britain acts in strict compliance with the Chemical Weapons Convention.
__The  facts demonstrate exactly the opposite. Thus, the Article IX of the  Convention stipulates that States Parties shall conduct bilateral  consultations on any ambiguous issues. We see that in reality the United  Kingdom has avoided complying with this provision and still refuses to  interact with us. As far as the British ultimatum communicated through  the Ambassador of the Russian Federation I have mentioned is concerned,  it cannot in any way be considered a proposal of cooperation in the  sense of the CWC or a request for legal assistance.
__On  our part, on April 13, we sent through the Technical Secretariat a note  to the British side under the Paragraph 2 Article IX with a list of  legitimate questions that we have regarding the Skripal case. We have  been acting strictly in accordance with the Convention and expected that  our partners from London would do the same. There still has been no  response. It is as if the United Kingdom did not notice the Convention  at all or did not want to act in accordance with its norms.
__We  also witnessed how London came up with a new form of work  the  independent verification by the Technical Secretariat of the OPCW of the  British sides findings. I would like to underscore: there is nothing  like this in the Convention. This is an invention by the United Kingdom.  Instead of precisely following the provisions of the Convention, the  United Kingdom tries to pull the wool over everyones eyes.

_
_LIE №3__

Russia refuses to cooperate in establishing the truth.__In  the reality, it is exactly the opposite. Russia is extremely interested   probably, even more than any other country  in an honest, open and  impartial investigation of the incident in Salisbury. We have repeatedly  proposed, asked, demanded from the British side to cooperate in the  investigation. We have put forward for the consideration of the 57th  extraordinary session of the Executive Council a draft decision that  contained the call for Russia and Great Britain to establish such  interaction with the involvement of the Technical Secretariat. We  expressed then and confirm now our readiness to cooperate with the OPCW  and within the OPCW.
__Unfortunately, all of our efforts stumble into a blind wall of complete unwillingness of London to interact.


__LIE №4__

The  United Kingdom claims that Russia, allegedly, infinitely multiplies its  versions of the chemical incident in Salisbury trying to divert from  itself the wave of criticism for the alleged use of chemical weapons on  the British soil.__In  the reality, this is what the British side has been doing,  disseminating through its so-called independent media the infinite  versions: the poison first was in the suitcase, then on the door handle,  then in the buckwheat, then at the restaurant, then in the flower  bouquet, then in the ventilation system of the car, then in perfume,  etc.


__LIE №5__

The  Russian leadership has allegedly stated that the extermination of  traitors abroad is the state policy of the Russian Federation.__This  is slander and complete nonsense. Let them demonstrate where they saw  this. Obviously, the United Kingdom will not be able to present a single  example of a statement of this kind because nothing similar has ever  been said by the Russian leadership.

_
_LIE №6

__The  conclusions made by the experts of the Technical Secretariat based on  the results of the analysis of samples collected from the Skripal father  and daughter confirmed that they had been poisoned with a substance  from the Novichok family. 
__Our  military experts are ready to present their evaluation of what was said  in the report by the Technical Secretariat based on the results of the  work of the group of specialists in the United Kingdom.__For  now, I will only say one thing: the claim that the Technical  Secretariat confirmed that this chemical points to its Russian origin is  an outright lie. The report itself does not say a single word about the  name Novichok; the CWC simply does not contain such a concept. And in  the report by the Technical Secretariat there is also no confirmation  of the Russian footprint in the chemical substance found in Salisbury.__Nevertheless,  the British authorities immediately disseminated in the world media the  fake news that the OPCW supposedly confirmed that the Skripals were  poisoned with Novichok, and that the latter, they say, was developed  in the USSR and Russia only, hence Moscow is to blame. This is how the  findings of the report by the Technical Secretariat are being falsified.


__LIE №7

__The so-called Novichok is a Soviet invention and it, supposedly, could have been produced only in Russia.__It  is necessary to remind that Novichok is the name invented in the West  for a group of chemical agents which were developed in many countries,  including in the United Kingdom. In one of his recent interviews, the  Secretary of State Boris Johnson confirmed that the United Kingdom has  samples of this substance at the laboratory in Porton Down. Actually, we  have a lot of questions to ask this laboratory. It would be interesting  to know how they determined that the Skripals had been poisoned with a  Novichok-type nerve agent. Because any reasonable person would  understand that you can establish this if you have the original  component to which you can compare the chemical which has been found. It  follows that this laboratory has a stock of Novichok, and, possibly,  also the antidotes which were used in the Skripals treatment.


__In  Russia, there has never been any research and development or  experimental work conducted as part of a programme under the name of  Novichok. I reiterate, there has never been a programme with such a  name. In the Soviet times, starting with the 1970s, not only the Soviet,  but also the British and American scientists were working on creating  new types of nerve agents. This is how the famous VX nerve gas was  created. And in the 1990s, after the breakup of the USSR, the Western  special services exported from Russia a group of chemists together with  the documentation. The specialists in the West began to closely study  the documents and, based on them, started working in this direction,  achieved certain results, which were made public.

_
_We  know very well that the Novichok-type nerve agents were in production  in a number of countries. And, unlike our Western partners, who are  constantly rolling their eyes and saying that they know something but  that it, as they say, is intelligence data and they cannot reveal it, we  operate in a different fashion. We work with open sources. Thus, on  December 1, 2015, the United States Patent and Trademark Office  contacted the Russian agency responsible for issues concerning patents  with a request to check the patentability of an invention made by an  American scientist T. Rubin. Here is this document (demonstration).


__This  document talks about the invention of a special bullet, the distinctive  feature of which is that it has a separate cavity for equipping it with  different kinds of toxic agents. When using the mentioned invention,  the lethal effect is achieved due to the effect of this toxic agent on  the human body. In other words, this ammunition falls under the  jurisdiction of the CWC. The principle of operation of the bullet  consists in equipping it with binary components which interact with each  other upon impact. And this is what we read on the page 11 of this  official American document, At least one of the active substances may  be selected from nerve agents including... tabun (GA), sarin (GB), soman  (GD), cyclosarin (GF), and VG, VM, VR, VX, and [attention!] Novichok  agents.


__In  other words, this document confirms that in the United States the  Novichok-type nerve agents were not just produced but also patented as  a chemical weapon. And not some long time ago, but just a couple of  years ago  the patent is dated December 1, 2015.
__Moreover,  searching by the key word Novichok on the digital source  google.patents.com you can find over 140 patents issued by the United  States, related to the use and protection from exposure to the  Novichok toxic agent.__These  are the real facts, not some idle talk, and the response to those who  insolently claim that the Novichok-type nerve agents existed and were  produced in the USSR and Russia.

_
_LIE №8__

One  of the victims, a Russian citizen Yulia Skripal is, allegedly, avoiding  contacts with her relatives and refusing the Russian consular  assistance.
__Presently,  the British authorities are zealously hiding Yulia Skripal from the  media and the public. Her whereabouts are unknown. The Russian side, as  well as her relatives (her cousin Victoria was refused an entry visa by  the British authorities) are being denied access to her. She does not  have the opportunity to go back to Russia and undergo medical  examination and treatment.
__The  abovementioned circumstances indicate that, in fact, the Russian  citizen Yulia Skripal is being held hostage by the British authorities,  held by force on the territory of the United Kingdom, subjected to  psychological manipulation.__I  have given just a few examples of how the British authorities spread  disinformation and blatantly lie. This list of disclosures could,  probably, go on, but we should probably stop here. It is typical that  the United Kingdom is not even thinking about refuting any of their  theses, despite the fact that they are completely unfounded.


__I  have no doubts that in the future, we can await new waves of  disinformation, pseudo-leaks to the media, insolent attacks on us by the  British officials. But no real evidence will ever be produced.


__The  United Kingdom demonstrates clear unwillingness to adequately cooperate  regarding the investigation of this obscure story. This convinces us  that the United Kingdom does not want any truth. They cannot allow it to  come to light.__The  report presented by the Technical Secretariat concerning the British  specialists findings poses a number of questions and calls for  additional detailed examination, including by the British side. Any  specialist would understand that the final conclusions can be made only  having before your eyes the materials of the chemical and spectral  analysis of the mentioned samples. And the Technical Secretariat has  passed these materials only to London.__We  underscore, Russia will not take at face value any conclusions  regarding the Skipal case until one simple condition is met: the  Russian experts will be provided with access to the victims, as well as  to the mentioned materials of the OPCW expert analysis and the entire  volume of the real information regarding this incident London has at its  disposal.

_
_We  have solid grounds to believe that all of this is a gross provocation  against Russia by the special services of the United Kingdom. And if the  British side continues to refuse to cooperate with us, it will only  reaffirm our conviction that this is exactly the case.


__Mr. Chairperson,__One  cannot help but recall the following saying: for some people lying is  not a means of justification, but a means of defence. On April 16, we  heard yet another strange statement: the G7 calls upon Russia to respond  to the legitimate questions of the United Kingdom regarding the  Skripal case. You can consider this statement our response.


__At  the same time, we would like to hear from the British side the answers  to the numerous and specific questions of the Russian Federation  regarding the incident in Salisbury. Moreover, we would be grateful if  the representatives of the G7 could explain to us why their countries  launched a diplomatic war against Russia based on some fakes.

_
_Thank you, Mr. Chairperson.

_
_Please, circulate this statement as an official document of this special OPCW Executive Council session."_


https://netherlands.mid.ru/en_GB/web/netherlands-en/-/statement-of-a-shulgin-at-the-opcw-ec


There are other countries reps statements at the OPCW site.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The statement from the Russian OPCW rep. Still bitching about the UK and highlighting some known "problems".


And carefully talking through his arse while reading the statement prepared for him but Putin's private secretary.

----------


## harrybarracuda

No wonder the Putin girls choir can't get their story straight.

So far the lying Russkies have claimed:

- The attack never happened
- The attack was by "Islamic terrorists"
- The attack was faked by the UK.

If the stupid Russkies can't get their fake story straight, how the fuck can the Putin girls choir be expected to?

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Dragonfly

any interesting news or development ?

----------


## Klondyke

> No wonder the Putin girls choir can't get their story straight.
> 
> So far the lying Russkies have claimed:
> 
> - The attack never happened
> - The attack was by "Islamic terrorists"
> - The attack was faked by the UK.
> 
> If the stupid Russkies can't get their fake story straight, how the fuck can the Putin girls choir be expected to?


We don't want to hear no stupid arguments, they did it and that's it...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> We don't want to hear no stupid arguments, they did it and that's it...


Stupid arguments are your forte you simpering imbecile.

----------


## Dragonfly

> No wonder the Putin girls choir can't get their story straight.
> 
> So far the lying Russkies have claimed:
> 
> - The attack never happened
> - The attack was by "Islamic terrorists"
> - The attack was faked by the UK.
> 
> If the stupid Russkies can't get their fake story straight, how the fuck can the Putin girls choir be expected to?


you are a fooking loon  :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

> Stupid arguments are your forte you simpering imbecile.


Not many have the guts to claim that Putin is lying (and his girls choir - whatever it is?) but May and her Melody boys tell nothing but pure truth...

----------


## OhOh

> - The attack never happened
> - The attack was by "Islamic terrorists"
> - The attack was faked by the UK.


All as "highly likely', to some, as the daily chnaging UK accusations.

Some possible questions to be answered fully:

1. Do we have faith in the MET investigation?

2. Do we have faith that, as the OPCW decided to limit the analysis and insert yet another CW, BUZZ - for "security" reason, they didn't insert anything else?

3. Do we have faith that the stated introduced of the BUZZ CW does not compromise the "confirmation" of the unknown, publicly confirmed Laboratory grade not weapons grade CW?

4. Are there any analysable chemicals present in BUZZ which are also present in, the "confirmed unknown CW"?

5. Do we have faith the "introduced BUZZ CW" was pure and not tainted with the "confirmed unknown CW"?

6. Who was the "introduced BUZZ CW" supplier?

7. Was "introduced BUZZ CW" tested for quality, prior to be inserted into the "confirmed unknown CW"

8. The OPCW introduced an additional CW to ensure what? The reputation of the OPCW, the reputation of the OPCW labs or the reputation of the requesting country (UK)?

Result:

Many additional unknowns introduced into the samples. They have only muddied the waters unnecessarily and raised more questions to be answered.

This could have been easily proved by analysing the original pre-modified samples but now, that is "high likely" impossible, due to the COC having been destroyed.

The bright spot is that* no link to Russia has been proven, as a fact*. Just a government's, who has previous in sexing up lies to start wars, "opinon".

The world's jury awaits proven facts not biased opinions.

Transcript from the London High Court of Justice Aug 2022

Defence lawyer: "Reasonable doubt has been introduce M'Lord, I call for this case to be dismissed, M'lord."

The Rt. Honourable Judge 'arry of an obscure ME Principality: "How say the jury"?

The Jury: "Innocent, no evidence has been proven as fact, M'Lord".

The Rt. Honourable Judge 'arry of an obscure ME Principality: "Case dismissed, I award damages to the accused". 

The Rt. Honourable Judge 'arry of an obscure ME Principality: "I would like to see Mrs. May and Mr. Johnson in my chambers immediately".

----------


## harrybarracuda

> All as "highly likely', to some, as the UK accusations.
> 
> Do we have faith in the MET investigation?
> 
> Do we have faith that, as the OPCW decided to limit the analysis and insert yet another CW, BUZZ - for "security" reason, they didn't insert anything else?
> 
> Do we have faith that the stated introduced of the BUZZ CW does not compromise the "confirmation" of the unknown, publicly confirmed Laboratory grade not weapons grade CW?
> 
> Are there any analysable chemicals present in BUZZ which are also present in, the "confirmed unknown CW"?
> ...


Waffle Waffle.

----------


## OhOh

> Waffle Waffle.


^^
Ther's more ........

----------


## Neo

that's all he's got... he just here so someone will talk to him

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^^
> Ther's more ........


Yes but it doesn't mean anything. It's unattributed nonsense and the "We" is you and Neo (and Klondyke trying hard to join the Putin girls choir).

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> that's all he's got... he just here so someone will talk to him


Waffle Waffle.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Let the litany of PUSSR excuses as to why they can't be interviewed begin.....





> Police and intelligence agencies in the UK have identified key suspects in the attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.
> 
> 
> Counter-terrorism police are building a case against "persons of interest", who are believed now to be in Russia.
> 
> It is thought that a search of flight manifests in and out of the UK has yielded specific names in the hunt for the Skripals' would-be assassins.
> Police have also drawn on CCTV footage.
> 
> However, counter-terrorism police will hit a diplomatic brick wall in trying to interview - let alone prosecute - the suspects.
> ...


https://www.independent.ie/world-new...-36828851.html

----------


## Neo

the forgot to add 'deadly' Novichock nerve agent... has Novichock now been degraded in line with it's effectiveness harry?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> the forgot to add 'deadly' Novichock nerve agent... has Novichock now been degraded in line with it's effectiveness harry?


I wouldn't know Neo, I'm not a chemical weapons developer.

Are you?

----------


## Dragonfly

> I wouldn't know Neo, I'm not a chemical weapons developer.
> 
> Are you?


and yet you make bold claims like you were one,

----------


## OhOh

redone see below

----------


## OhOh

> The emails of Yulia Skripal (33), who lives in Moscow, were monitored prior to her flight to the UK to visit her father, giving the hit squad notice of when he would be at home.


I presume the evidence will be deemed "highly likely" and unfortunately top secret.




> Police have also drawn on CCTV footage.


Lets hope the *Red Fedora* ones are of better quality than, the *White Helmets* ones. The reds are coming, the reds are coming. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_co...&v=XnS49c9KZw8


Well done Trainee Constable 'arry 6969. Now go and make us a nice cup of tea and complete the paperwork.

'arry's proof:

Evening All.

These are our latest mockups, some taken with police issue body cameras - good COC, some from our top secret spy satellites - say no more and lastly, a composite I personally knocked up using MS Paint - thank you for your contribution to my pension fund.




 #1: Not many brown bears to be found in Salisbury, but lots in Russia! Jury members who watch BBC nature programmes, jury guilty vote.





#2: Brown bear shit found in the ex double agent's back garden. Jury members unknown, anyone with glass topped coffee tables, guilty vote





#3: Brown bear tooth was found embedded in the Gerbils rectum. Jury members who wear dentures, guilty vote.





#4: Brown bear prints in the drive and lo and behold some car keys, for a *Lada.*   Jury members who own a BMW, guilty vote.



#5: Person of interest "captured " on Wiltshire CC CCTV camera. Comment from Agent Bond, "TC 'arry do we not have any stock images of  the bear carrying the slaughtered, body of a 8 year old virgin, blood  dripping from her mouth/nose/other unnamed orifices onto her purest white, exposed chest/inner thighs etc.,we  could use? Jury members who have paedophilia tendencies, guilty vote. 

If anybody knows the whereabouts of this person please call Trainee Constable 'arry on Salisbury 6969. (Free call, but your mobile number will be recorded, so no funny Russian accented, voices to hide your identity).

Do not approach as he is known to be dangerous. (He secretly agreed with another politicians opinion that 100,000s of Iraqi childrens deaths, "were worth it".)

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

You definitely need to ask for stronger meds.

 :Smile:

----------


## cisco999

If I had stuffed in me wh that bloke did, I right want some good meds to follow.

----------


## OhOh

> You definitely need to ask for stronger meds.


Look again it's been edited to include more misleading, suggestive, evidence.

Who do you think they tested the BUZZ on, back in the 70's.

----------


## cisco999

I'd b ill too

----------


## Klondyke

Is the old good Skripal still alive? Or has he got a different name?

----------


## Pragmatic

> Is the old good Skripal still alive? Or has he got a different name?


 Ivor Torabollokoff.

----------


## Klondyke

It's not fair that (and if) he is alive, after such big fuss about him (not speaking about the money spent)...
Or was it (the fuss) substituted by another fuss about the water hoses in Syria? (also quiet somehow now - what will come next?)

----------


## OhOh

He's living the "high life" in Pattaya. That is until he's not needed any more. Then it's the along drop into oblivion.

He was offered Dallas, but there are no good pies available there.

----------


## OhOh

*OPCW Spokesperson’s Statement on Amount of Nerve Agent Used in Salisbury*




_"THE HAGUE, Netherlands — 4 May 2018 — In response to questions from the  media, the OPCW Spokesperson stated that the OPCW would not be able to  estimate or determine the amount of the nerve agent that was used in  Salisbury on 4 March 2018. The quantity should probably be characterised  in milligrams. However, the analysis of samples collected by the OPCW  Technical Assistance Visit team concluded that the chemical substance  found was of high purity, persistent and resistant to weather  conditions."

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/op...-in-salisbury/
_

*Czech Republic produced Novichok*




Voltaire Network | 6 May 2018

_"During an televised interview broadcast on TV  Barrandov, the President of the Czech Republic, Miloš Zeman (see photo),  has indicated that he commissioned his secret services to produce a  report on the Russian allegation that it was probably his country that  had produced  Novichok, the same substance used in Salisbury to poison  the Russian agent Serguei Skripal and his daughter, Julia.
__“We must conclude that our country has produced and tested an [agent  of the class] Novichok, although [it had been produced] only in small  quantities and then destroyed (…) It would be sheer hypocrisy on our  part to claim that this was not the case (…) We do not need to lie”, he  declared.

_
_According to the military intelligence services, the poison was  probably produced at the Institute for military research at Brno in  November 2017, under code name A230.

_
_In the first instance, the Prime Minister, Andrej Babiš, had  violently denied that his country could have produced the type of  substance used in the Skripal Affair. The British Prime Minister,  Theresa May,  had concluded from this that Russia had lied  and that  she, Russia, was guilty of attempting to poison Sergueï Skripal.

_
_President Miloš Zeman is a lone voice in the European Union. He is  the only head of State taking a position against the sanctions against  both Syria and Russia."_

http://www.voltairenet.org/article201015.html

Czech president: Czechs made Novichok, citing spy agency | Fox News
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1H22FN


The OPCW reports the chemical analysed in the samples is "_of high purity, persistent and resistant to weather  conditions.". 

_High purity, as in a lab produces chemical, as opposed to "Military Grade" produced in 1,000s cubic metres per production run, which has additional chemicals added to obtain long storage life, amongst other requirements?

Persistance, compared to what, the alleged Russian CW or the proven CWs produced by UK, Czech and ameristani + .............. CW industry?_Resistant to weather  conditions,_ compared to what, the alleged Russian CW or the proven CWs produced by UK, Czech and ameristani + .............. CW industry?

Or shall we conclude Czech "_Institute for military research at Brno"_ produced the CW and consequently allowed it to be utilised in Salisbury, by xxxxx?

Maybe 'arrys top secret connections would be able to assist us?

----------


## Dragonfly

more spy games,

----------


## Neverna

Stolen from the Czech replublic by the Israelis? They certainly have the ability to do that.

----------


## Dragonfly

at least the Russians can sleep at nights knowing they have fuck all to do with it,

only the easily manipulated western leaders like May and Trump are the real risks here,

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Stolen from the Czech replublic by the Israelis? They certainly have the ability to do that.


Blimey, I was waiting for Ohoh to blame "Ameristan" and you go and pin it on the four by twos.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

^The ameristanis are Israelis poodles, yes?

----------


## Neo

So where are the Skripals.?  :Dunno:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So where are the Skripals.?



Butlins at Cheltenham.

----------


## OhOh

Where are the hospital staff, the MSM, the police report, the humans rights groups, the ......... , are they all gagged?

----------


## david44

> Where are the hospital staff, the MSM, the police report, the humans rights groups, the ......... , are they all gagged?


Under a D notice , it's a bit like granpa gagged by a TD notice

----------


## Pragmatic

Originally Posted by *Neo*  (Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance)
_So where are the Skripals.?_ 




> Butlins at Cheltenham.


 I'll go along with that. It's the last place anyone would look. Was that an educated guess Harry or have you got insider knowledge?   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Pragmatic

Russia mocks the UK by copying the Oscar winning movie.

----------


## OhOh

Nothing from the Met. 2 months and silence. The shit is still smelling but facts or proof are some what gossamered. 

News management eh.

Statement issued on behalf of Yulia Skripal - Metropolitan Police

----------


## Klondyke

The case closed, let's forget...

----------


## Dragonfly

yeah, message was sent, backdoor transactions completed, public baffled and misled

 mission accomplished !!!

----------


## OhOh

> The case closed, let's forget...


Only once the real culprits are named, shamed and resign from the UK parliament. :Smile:  The apologies are printed and all sanctions removed.

----------


## Begbie

> at least the Russians can sleep at nights knowing they have fuck all to do with it,
> 
> only the easily manipulated western leaders like May and Trump are the real risks here,


One theory is that Trump’s Russian mafia friends were behind the attempted hit as Skripal was involved in gathering data for the Trump Russian dossier and this was payback.

This sounds a lot more plausible than the story the UK government cobbled together.

----------


## Pragmatic

> One theory is that Trump’s Russian mafia friends were behind the attempted hit as Skripal was involved in gathering data for the Trump Russian dossier and this was payback.
> 
> This sounds a lot more plausible than the story the UK government cobbled together.


 As I pointed out in an earlier post, the Skripals suffered from no more than food poisoning. The symptoms are somewhat mirrored to nerve agent poisoning.




> Craig Murray's described the pressure on Porton Down to establish that a nerve agent was used in the alleged Skripal attack. I use 'alleged attack', because there is a fair chance that this was no attack, only a serious food poisoning from the very start.The Skripals had a seafood risotto pesce with king prawns, mussels and squid rings at Zizzi, as reported here in the _Daily Mail_ on March 6.
> This is a dish with a well known reputation as a source of shellfish poisoning.
> The Skripals were okay when they arrived, okay when they left, and passed out 40 minutes later on the bench with symptoms similar to a paralytic reaction from shellfish poisoning (PSP):Symptoms of PSP could begin within a few minutes and up to 10 hours after consumption.Symptoms of PSP can include: 
> ...
> ...
> *Respiratory difficulty, salivation, temporary blindness, nausea and vomiting may also occur.*
> *In extreme cases, paralysis of respiratory muscles may lead to respiratory arrest and death* within two to twelve hours after consumption. Seriously affected people must be hospitalized and placed under respiratory care.


 




> The similarity with symptoms and effect derived from a nerve agent are striking, but no surprise:
> In fact the substance at work in a case of paralytic seafood poison is a neurotoxin called Saxitoxin (STX) which is among the most potent poisons found in nature. It works the same way as a nerve agent: It acts on the neurons, preventing normal cellular function and leading to paralysis and in worst case death. In fact Saxitoxin is so potent that it was weaponized by the U.S. and used as a chemical weapon - a nerve agent.
> The U.S. developed Saxitoxin into a chemical weapon in the 1960s. The U.S. military designation is TZ. It was also used by the CIA for covert operations and liquidations as evidenced by the Church commission - see: E_xcerpts of CIA inventory 1, 2_


 http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04/the-best-explanation-for-the-skripal-drama-is-food-poisoning.html

----------


## OhOh

I din't think food poisoning requires 2 months of intensive care treatment. Which then illustrates the need to confirm their whereabouts or the alternate theories will grow.

----------


## Pragmatic

> I din't think food poisoning requires 2 months of intensive care treatment.


 It doesn't but in this case food poisoning respiratory ICU is required until the patient becomes stable. All explained in the link I provided. The Skripols never spent 2 months in ICU.

----------


## OhOh

So where is the father being held now? Has he left the hospital?

----------


## Pragmatic

> So where is the father being held now? Has he left the hospital?


 You'll need to ask Harry. If he's not available try the CIA.   :Smile: 

As of the 8th May, according to the Telegraph.  




> Now, with Sergei Skripal understood to still be in hospital and his daughter Yulia discharged, the only site that still needs to be closed off for the police is the family home in Salisbury.

----------


## OhOh

^

"Understood to be still in hospital", but no interviews, no news on his condition and no Russian Consular visits?

There are plans to demolish the home aren't there? A statue of THE LORD may make an apt addition. "Lest we forget."

 :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

Afterall he was a double agent.





> *Sergei Skripal was preparing to return to Russia in exchange for information he said proved that MI6 had fabricated the Trump Dossier in order to delegitimize President Trump.*
> According to reports, shortly before his poisoning, Skirpal was negotiating his return to Russia by offering Russian officials proof that the Brit
> ish Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) had created the Trump Dossier in cooperation with the Obama-Clinton regime.
> Whatdoesitmean.com reports: According to this report, in early February (2018), the Federal Security Service (FSB) was contacted by Yulia Skripal—who is the daughter of the former Russian spy Sergei Skripal, has lived in London since 2011, and was preparing to return to Russia to marry the son of a high-ranking Russian security official—but whose father, already despondent over the death of his son last year, and his wife in 2012, wanted to return to Russia with her—and in exchange for his being allowed to do so, would, in turn, provide proof that MI6 had entirely created what is now known as the now discredited “Trump Dossier” in cooperation with the Obama-Clinton regime designed to destroy the legitimacy of President Trump.
> Not being told the peoples in the West, this report notes, is that Sergei Skripal was a former Russian military intelligence officer who was recruited by MI6 to be a double agent — and whose recruitment to spy for MI6 was masterminded by MI6 agent Pablo Miller who worked directly under the “Trump Dossier” creator, and MI6 officer, Christopher Steele—with Sergei Skripal, also, working for Orbis Business Intelligence, Christopher Steele’s outfit that put together the infamous dossier on Trump, that both MI6 spies Steele and Miller worked for too.



https://yournewswire.com/poisoned-russian-spy-mi6-trump-dossier/

----------


## lom

^
YourNewsWire (styled as YourNewsWire.com)  is a Los Angeles-based clickbait fake news website known for  disseminating conspiracy theories and misleading information, contrary  to its claimed motto (“News. Truth. Unfiltered”).

----------


## Pragmatic

Doesn't matter where the info came from some will always try to discredit it.  :Smile:

----------


## Begbie

^There is some truth there. Skripal worked with Millar and Steele on the Trump dossier. 

Pragmatic are you claiming that MI6 fed him the dodgy seafood in order to shut him up after they discovered he was talking to the Russians?

----------


## Pragmatic

> Pragmatic are you claiming that MI6 fed him the dodgy seafood in order to shut him up after they discovered he was talking to the Russians?


 I believe they found out where Skripal was booked in to have lunch and poisoned him and the daughter with Saxitoxin which mirrors food poisoning symptoms. 




> _The U.S. developed Saxitoxin into a chemical weapon in the 1960s. The U.S. military designation is TZ._ _It was also used by the CIA for covert operations and liquidations__ as evidenced by the Church commission_

----------


## Dragonfly

> ^
> YourNewsWire (styled as YourNewsWire.com)  is a Los Angeles-based clickbait fake news website known for  disseminating conspiracy theories and misleading information, contrary  to its claimed motto (“News. Truth. Unfiltered”).


too bad, it was an interesting angle to the whole game  :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> YourNewsWire (styled as YourNewsWire.com) is a Los Angeles-based clickbait fake news website known for disseminating conspiracy theories and misleading information, contrary to its claimed motto (“News. Truth. Unfiltered”).


 So what isn't the truth in  the 'YourNewsWire.com' site. And who says it's fake news? More than likely the CIA to make this claim so to cover up the truth as to their true actions being exposed.

----------


## sabang

Anyway, if you believe the UK/US/'western' MSM version of this, you are either nuts or stoopid. I debate with neither.

The Truth will likely never out, but if you look upon the UK 'government'/ agencies and MSM's conduct and statements in all this, you do not even need a nose to smell the bullshit. You can hear it.

----------


## OhOh

> You can hear it.


I don't suppose you have a sound recording at hand, of your Thai buffalo shitting. Some here might like a copy. :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

*Media Alert: OPCW's Director-General's Update to the 59th Executive Council Meeting on Salisbury Incident*




    Wednesday, 18 April 2018



Snippet of interest:

_"I wish to take this opportunity to emphasise the policy followed by the  Secretariat with regards to public statements made by officials of  individual States Parties. The Secretariat will not respond publicly to  such statements even if these are critical of the OPCW’s work. I do not  think it is in the interest of the Organisation that the Secretariat  gets involved in public discussions with States Parties. We will  continue to use the Executive Council meetings or briefings to inform  the States Parties about our activities and to clarify certain points  which need to be addressed. "

https://www.opcw.org/news/article/media-alert-opcws-director-generals-update-to-the-59th-executive-council-meeting-on-salisbury-incident/


_However in a second document, included under the "More Information" tag at the bottom of the "Media Alert": 

In this document, EC-M-59/DG.1, there are three pages.
 The first page is a copy of the above "Media Alert". The second page is blank. The third page is the Concluding Remarks:  

_"__EC-M-59/DG.1_ 

_page 3 

_
_CONCLUDING REMARKS

_
_Mr Chairperson, The Technical Assistance mission carried out by the Secretariat is over. However based on the outcome of this mission in relation to the identity of the toxic chemical used in Salisbury, the Organisation will need to consider some follow up actions. I would like to inform the Council that I will soon seek the advice of the Scientific Advisory Board on the issue under discussion here today. Based on the SAB’s recommendations we may consider other steps. meanwhile the Secretariat will also propose the inclusion of the toxic chemical identified in the TAV report in the OCAD. 
_

_As it was clearly shown in the detailed and technical presentation, we should not have an iota of doubt on the reliability of the system of the OPCW Designated Laboratories. The Labs were able to confirm the identity of the chemical by applying existing, well-established procedures. There was no other chemical that was identified by the Labs. The precursor of BZ that is referred to in the public statements, commonly known as 3Q, was contained in the control sample prepared by the OPCW Lab in accordance with the existing quality control procedures. Otherwise it has nothing to do with the samples collected by the OPCW Team in Salisbury. This chemical was reported back to the OPCW by the two designated labs and the findings are duly reflected in the report. 
_


_I should like to mention here that in accordance with the established practice the Secretariat does not share the full reports of the analysis of the samples that it receives from the designated Labs with the States Parties. This practice is aimed at protecting the identity of the labs which conduct off-site analysis of samples. 
_

_As it has been explained to you, the current system is tried-and-true and we must continue to put our faith in it._ 


_I would like to take this moment to invite States Parties to support the project to upgrade the OPCW Laboratory, which will further augment our capabilities in this field."

https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/...m59dg01_e_.pdf

_Looks like an unpublished discussion took place which has raised issues never encountered before.Their appears to be some questions requiring "more considerations" and "other steps" required in their procedures.

The labs did indeed confirm the existence of the unnamed CW requested to be identified by the UK. As the UK has not admitted publicly it has this unnamed CW it maybe interesting to understand how they, identified an unknown CW without a comparative sample. Did the French have this CW and the UK borrowed a few gs? If so the French could be the Salisbury unnamed CW source, if not the UK must have the unnamed CW and again be the source of the Salisbury CW.

The labs also confirmed the OPCW introduced BZ CW in the samples.

Those two CW's were in the full reports to the member states.

Interestingly the full analysis is not shared to the member states allegedly to protect the OPCW labs identity. But with the request to trust us and we "will further augment our capabilities".

In conclusion the two OPCW test labs have the unnamed CW, to utilise for comparison. As Porton Down is an OPCW test lab they have it. Presumably all 16 odd OPCW test labs have it for the same reasons.

QED: Any of the countries with OPCW test labs, could have been the source of the Salisbury unnamed CW, along with any countries non OPCW labs which may have it for their own purposes. Russia is not the only possible source country of, as alleged by the UK government, the unnamed CW allegedly used in Salisbury.

Defendant not guilty.

Glasses filled with Vodka clinked, the contents swallowed and glasses thrown into the fire.

----------


## OhOh

*No secret: Western countries have known Novichok formula for decades, German media report* 


_          "A sample of Novichok, the nerve agent allegedly used to poison  the Skripals, was obtained by German intelligence back in the 1990s,  local media report. The substance has since been studied and produced by  NATO countries.      

_
_Western countries,  including the US and the UK, have long been aware of the chemical makeup  of the nerve agent known as Novichok, a group of German media outlets  reported following a joint investigation. The inquiry, based on  anonymous sources, gives new insights into the issue of the nerve agent  said to have been used in the poisoning of former double agent Sergei  Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury, UK, in March.

_
_Western governments were able to lay their hands on the formula of what is described as one of the deadliest chemical weapons ever developed  after the German foreign intelligence service, the BND, obtained a  sample of the nerve agent from a Russian defector in the early 1990s.

_
_A Russian scientist provided German intelligence with information on  the development of Novichok for some time following the collapse of the  Soviet Union, the German NDR and WDR broadcasters, as well as Die Zeit and Suedeutsche Zeitung  dailies, report, citing unnamed sources within the BND. At some point,  the man offered to bring the Germans a sample of the chemical agent in  exchange for asylum for him and his family.

_
_A sample was  eventually smuggled by the wife of the scientist and sent by the Germans  to a Swedish chemical lab, according to the reports. Following the  sample analysis, the Swedish experts established the formula of the  substance, which they then handed over to Germany.

_
_By the order of the then German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, the BND then shared the formula with Berlins closest allies, including the intelligence services of the US and the UK. Later, the UK, the US and Germany reportedly created a special working group tasked with studying the substance, which also included representatives from France, Canada and the Netherlands.

_
_Some NATO countries were secretly producing the chemical agent in small quantities,  the four media outlets reported, adding that it was allegedly done to  develop the necessary countermeasures. However, it remains unclear which  particular states were involved in the Novichok production.

_
_The  sample of the nerve agent was particularly thoroughly studied by British  specialists in the Porton Down laboratory. That is why they allegedly  were so quick to determine the formula of the substance used to poison  the former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia back in  March, the report says.

_
_At the same time, the German media admitted that Novichok has long been not a secret anymore, calling the claim of the British authorities concerning the origin of the substance used to poison the Skripals precarious.

_
_The  British government accuses Russia of poisoning the Skripals in  Salisbury using the nerve agent A230, which has since become known as  Novichok. Part of the argument put forward by Prime Minister Theresa May  for Moscows complicity is that Russia is the only country able to  produce it. That narrative has remained largely unquestioned within the  Western mainstream media.

_
_However, Czech President Milos Zeman has  recently admitted that his country did synthesize and test a nerve  agent of the so-called Novichok family. Earlier, Russian officials named  the Czech Republic  along with Slovakia, Sweden, the US and the UK  itself  among the countries which have enough technical capabilities to  produce the nerve agent.

_
_The international chemical weapons  watchdog, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons  (OPCW), has repeatedly claimed it cannot identify the source of the  agent that was allegedly used to poison the Skripals."

https://www.rt.com/news/426944-germa...ichok-formula/

_Well, well, well.

It looks as if the lies and bedrock of the UK governments case, has just fallen down the hole of truth. Could it possibly be that THE LORD and Russian governments officials, have been telling the truth since day one of the evil slur. A German group of reporters dug up the truth, the UK reporters daren't raise a question. The UK FM scoots away like a frightened rabbit, from a direct question in the HOC.

But never mind the UK slugs have a Royal getting married!

----------


## Pragmatic

> “one of the deadliest chemical weapons ever developed”


 And yet it failed to kill anyone in Salisbury.  :rofl:

----------


## Klondyke

> And yet it failed to kill anyone in Salisbury.


Just the guinea pig and the cat. 
Not surprising the Skripals had kept the guinea pig. It is very suitable for monitoring any poison. 
And not forget the other Russian spy (what was his name?) who died nearby, why so quiet about him?

----------


## OhOh

> It is very suitable for monitoring any poison.


A pet for an elderly man or an instrument to develop a "vaccine",  for "women who need a assistance in becoming pregnant" and thus a Nobel Prize of course? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I read yesterday the Met have been questioning the elder UK spy to determine his relationship and frequency of meeting with MI6. The odds that any "poison, let alone a CW lethal at 0.001g in 2 minutes, being used have gone from 100% to 50% and now 0%. I presume ameristan will now use this "evidence" of, poor Russian technical ability, to double their own "CW/defence" budget.

Any MSM coverage?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _
> https://www.rt.com/news/426944-germa...ichok-formula/
> 
> _Well, well, well.
> 
> 
> the hole of truth.


Quite.

----------


## Dragonfly

the plot thickens

Ex-spy Sergei Skripal discharged after poisoning - BBC News

----------


## Klondyke

RT just airing live the press conference with Russian Ambassador to UK. He says, no answers have been received, neither on the other spy's death Grushkov, no access to any info...

----------


## OhOh

*If Novichok was used, Skripal would have died on the spot – Putin as ex-double agent leaves hospital*_          "Russian President Vladimir Putin says he was happy to hear that  former double agent Sergei Skripal had been discharged from hospital,  stressing that if a weapons-grade poison had been used, Skripal would  have died on the spot. 

_
_Speaking at a joint press  conference with visiting German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Putin said he  had heard Skripal had been released from hospital._

_"God give him health, we are very happy,"  the Russian president said. He added, however, that he doubts a  weapons-grade toxin was used to poison Sergei Skripal and his daughter  Yulia in Salisbury, UK, in early March.

_
_"I think that if, as our British colleagues claim, a  weapons-grade poison had been used, that person would be dead on the  spot. Combat chemicals are so strong that the person either dies  immediately or within seconds, maybe minutes," Putin said.

_
_He also reiterated Russia's willingness to help the investigation. "We  have offered our British partners all the necessary help numerous  times, and asked for access to the investigation. There has been no  answer so far. Our offer remains on the table," the Russian leader concluded.

_
_Sergei  Skripal, a former Russian-UK double agent who had served a prison term  for treason in Russia before moving to the UK, was poisoned in Salisbury  on March 4, together with his daughter Yulia. In the immediate  aftermath, British Prime Minister Theresa May claimed Russia was "highly likely"  responsible because of the alleged origins of the nerve agent  supposedly used in the poisoning. The case escalated into a diplomatic  scandal, with the UK and its allies expelling dozens of Russian  diplomats, and Moscow sending home a similar number in a mirror  response.

_
_The British NHS announced on Friday that Sergei Skripal had been  discharged from hospital. No details of his condition or location have  been revealed. Weeks earlier, Skripal's daughter Yulia was released in  similar secrecy. Neither has been seen since, and their only  communication with the outside world has been a statement released by  the Metropolitan Police, supposedly on Yulia's behalf, which among other  things refused the help which had been offered by the Russian embassy  in London._

*'They can refuse our help, but we must be sure they're OK'
*_The  Skripals are free to turn down the embassy's aid, but they should do so  in person, Russian Ambassador to the UK Alexander Yakovenko told a  press conference on Friday.

_
_"For today, nobody saw their pictures, nobody heard their voice,  nobody saw whether they're alive or not… we should be sure that the  person is alive, he is alright or she is alright, and [if they] say, for  example, 'I don't need your services,' it's fine with us," he said.

_
_Asked by a reporter, Yakovenko said Russia does not consider Skripal a traitor as his sentence had been served. "He  was sentenced, he spent six years in prison, he is cleared, he was  freed and he decided to go to Britain. He is a free man, he is a Russian  citizen as well as a British citizen, and he can do whatever he wishes.  I think he settled his problems with the Russian state."

_
_The ambassador himself only heard of Skripal after the Salisbury incident, he told another reporter.

_
_"I  had never heard of him and we never met him – no relations, no nothing.  So when it happened in Salisbury, we started to read about who the  person is, what he did in Russia, what he did here… basically, for us he  was a new person, and now we know almost everything from the British  press, except the evidence," Yakovenko said."
_
Comments on the alleged discharge of a Russian citizen by Russian government offices._

https://www.rt.com/news/427160-novic...ipal-putin-uk/
_

----------


## harrybarracuda

Oh look, yet another Russian fairytale.

----------


## Begbie

Oh look Harry is being stupid again.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Oh look Harry is being stupid again.


No dickhead, Harry is being factual.

Poor old Putin can't make his mind up what his fucking story is.

----------


## Pragmatic

Is there anyone on TD that believes the Russians did it, other than Harry?

----------


## OhOh

> Oh look, yet another Russian fairytale.


Care to refute the alleged facts in the "fairy tale"?




> other than Harry?


Does he have any other logins here??

----------


## harrybarracuda

You have to admit that Russian propaganda machine is pretty good at sowing seeds of disbelief into the minds of fuckwits.

They make up so many stories, even fans of the Tsar lose track of them.

----------


## Klondyke

Some even think that the Skripals never have existed...

----------


## OhOh

The cats did and the very healthy Guinea Pigs. I saw them in one of the MET investigation secret files and one of them has just given birth to a gaggle. Anybody want some very expensive, health assured pets? 

Damn that's blown my cover.

----------


## OhOh

> They make up so many stories


By 'they", I presume you mean the UK clique? That's the trouble with lying, one embellishes the story hoping to convince the unbelievers and unfortunately the lie gets twisted back to the liar. As we have seen in this Salisbury dido.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> By 'they", I presume you mean the UK clique?


No, by "they" I mean the Russian propaganda machine in the previous sentence.

Are you illiterate?

----------


## OhOh

I'm not, but to some it is useful this "clarification", as you say.

----------


## Neo

> Is there anyone on TD that believes the Russians did it, other than Harry?


RPeter, HermanZeGerman and snubs, they kind of look up to harry as an intellectual giant  :Smile:

----------


## Listerman

> You have to admit that Russian propaganda machine is pretty good at sowing seeds of disbelief into the minds of fuckwits.


Your entitled to your opinion, but the fact of the matter remains that the Russian ambassador to London has not been given diplomatic access to the Skripals, and that is clearly in direct contravention of the 1965 Vienna convention i.e. the UK is breaking international law by not granting access.

Until such time that this happens the UK governments stance on this whole situation is looking shakier all the time, and the Russians can quite legitimately keep raising awkward questions or sowing seeds of disbelief (depending upon your opinion).

It is also interesting to note that when the situation is reversed the UK government spares no effort to tell everyone how the Russians are not complying with various conventions.

----------


## Klondyke

> You have to admit that Russian propaganda machine is pretty good at sowing seeds of disbelief into the minds of fuckwits.
> 
> They make up so many stories, even fans of the Tsar lose track of them.


Care to elaborate the stories they have made up? Just curious...

----------


## Klondyke

^Perhaps the good 'arry has meant the stories about Ukraine?

https://teakdoor.com/speakers-corner/...ml#post3769089

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Your entitled to your opinion, but the fact of the matter remains that the Russian ambassador to London has not been given diplomatic access to the Skripals, and that is clearly in direct contravention of the 1965 Vienna convention i.e. the UK is breaking international law by not granting access.


I don't suppose it's occurred to you that he might not want to meet the people that tried to kill him?

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

> he might not want to meet the people that tried to kill him


How would he know who that was? Do Russian killers have a special badge, whisper sweet Russian nothings into his ear or all use the same government issued aftershave?

----------


## david44

> By 'they", I presume you mean the UK clique? That's the trouble with lying, one embellishes the story hoping to convince the unbelievers and unfortunately the lie gets twisted back to the liar. As we have seen in this Salisbury dido.


The Lubricated Trojan recounts
"Oi comrade Now that's what I call a feather in the cap'

 I went to see it when in Libourne, 

M Gibert Mitterand the mayor avers  the kid's saying 

"Just get over it mon vieux was just that horsemeat lasagne in that Twattoria in Sarum-Scarum, goes right through, be right as rain for the Derby" Maypole Boost.'

----------


## Klondyke

> I don't suppose it's occurred to you that he might not want to meet the people that tried to kill him?


If this was the case he surely would like to meet anybody else (of the good people), won't he?  And to have series of beautiful pictures how he is leaving the hospital, the daughter awaiting him with flowers, he is looking forward to having a beer with her again in a pub behind the corner, etc. 

So, we will not have at least one picture of him like the one of Alexander Litvinenko on the death bed? Pity that the people around him did not have a smart phone to have more pictures that our 'arry can show us again, time by time...

----------


## Cujo

> *If Novichok was used, Skripal would have died on the spot – Putin as ex-double agent leaves hospital*
> 
> 
> _          "Russian President Vladimir Putin says he was happy to hear that  former double agent Sergei Skripal had been discharged from hospital,  stressing that if a weapons-grade poison had been used, Skripal would  have died on the spot. 
> 
> _
> _Speaking at a joint press  conference with visiting German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Putin said he  had heard Skripal had been released from hospital._
> 
> _"God give him health, we are very happy,"  the Russian president said. He added, however, that he doubts a  weapons-grade toxin was used to poison Sergei Skripal and his daughter  Yulia in Salisbury, UK, in early March.
> ...


Yes and Putin wouldn't lie.   :rofl:

----------


## Listerman

> I don't suppose it's occurred to you that he might not want to meet the people that tried to kill him?


It did, and the Russian ambassador also noted the same. But that does not change the fact that the Russians are entitled to speak with them under this convention. If only for the Skripals to tell them to rotate on their middle finger.

Obviously complying with the law in this regard is the last thing the British government is going to do. As it is likely to raise another load of awkward questions, which further challenges Teresa May's narrative to date.

As before, and until the British government complies with international law, no one knows what the true situation is.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It did, and the Russian ambassador also noted the same. But that does not change the fact that the Russians are entitled to speak with them under this convention. If only for the Skripals to tell them to rotate on their middle finger.
> 
> Obviously complying with the law in this regard is the last thing the British government is going to do. As it is likely to raise another load of awkward questions, which further challenges Teresa May's narrative to date.
> 
> As before, and until the British government complies with international law, no one knows what the true situation is.


As far as I know, he's a BRITISH citizen, and she has said she does not want to talk to them.

If they want to get all pouty about it, I'd suggest they revoke his Russian passport.

Next?

----------


## Klondyke

> As far as I know, he's a BRITISH citizen, and she has said she does not want to talk to them.


And she would not lie to 'arry, would she? 

Pity, that she does not share "with international commmunity" her photo with Skripal (dedicated to her) leaving the hospital...

----------


## Listerman

> As far as I know, he's a BRITISH citizen


As far as I know, is he still a dual national, or do you know if he has renounced his RUSSIAN citizenship?

Furthermore if that were the case then the Russians would know this for sure, and would not be perusing this angle with such enthusiasm




> She has said she does not want to talk to them.


Under the convention that makes no difference whether she wants to talk to them or not. The Russians are following due process and have every right to ask for access, by refusing access the British government are clearly in breach of the convention.





> If they want to get all pouty about it, I'd suggest they revoke his Russian passport.


That would be a retrospective action (after the Russians had asked for access), and hence would not withstand legal scrutiny. Correct me if I am wrong, but only the Russians and Interpol can revoke a Russian passport. Imagine if any country can revoke passports of any other country, that would surely be a recipe for chaos.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> As far as I know, is he still a dual national, or do you know if he has renounced his RUSSIAN citizenship?
> 
> Furthermore if that were the case then the Russians would know this for sure, and would not be perusing this angle with such enthusiasm
> 
> 
> 
> Under the convention that makes no difference whether she wants to talk to them or not. The Russians are following due process and have every right to ask for access, by refusing access the British government are clearly in breach of the convention.
> 
> 
> ...


All very fanciful, but in this case it seems Putin is all upset because he can't order his citizens around, jail them, beat them up or feed them Polonium tea.

I would imagine he's jolly upset about that.

Only a fucking idiot would think they are being held against their will.

If it were in Russia and the boot on the other foot, on the other hand....

----------


## Pragmatic

> Only a fucking idiot would think they are being held against their will.


 I do.




> *5.* According to Articles 36 and 37 of the _1963 Vienna Convention_ and _Article 35 (1) of the 1965 Consular Convention_, as citizens of the Russian Federation, both Mr Skripal (who retains dual nationality) and his daughter are entitled to consular access from the Russian Embassy in London. In the statement released by Scotland Yard on behalf of Yulia Skripal on 11th April, she stated that she was “aware of my specific contacts at the Russian Embassy who have kindly offered me their assistance in any way they can,” but then went on to say that she did not wish “to avail myself of their services”.
> However, during the period when both she and her father were in a coma, neither was in a position to either request, or to refuse, consular access. In this case, denial of consular access when their wishes remained unknown could be seen to constitute a breach of their legal rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. Can the Government comment on how the decision was arrived at to assume that the Skripals would _not_ want consular access, since this could not have been known whilst they were unconscious?


 http://www.theblogmire.com/the-lady-and-the-curiously-absent-suspect-yet-another-20-questions-on-the-skripal-case/

----------


## Klondyke

> Originally Posted by harrybarracuda 
> Only a fucking idiot would think they are being held against their will.


Highly likely...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I do.
> 
> http://www.theblogmire.com/the-lady-and-the-curiously-absent-suspect-yet-another-20-questions-on-the-skripal-case/


Again:

They tried to kill them. So why the fuck would they want to meet the bastards?

And what's the point of meeting them if they're in a coma anyway?

----------


## Klondyke

> They tried to kill them


They? Who?

Yes, they needed to have a case against Putin. Anything highly likely...

If not Crimea, nor Malaysia plane crash, election meddling, chemical weapons, subsea cable cutting, jeopardizing peaceful bombarders at Russian boarder, etc.

----------


## Pragmatic

> And what's the point of meeting them if they're in a coma anyway?


 May be to confirm that they really are in coma's and in hospital.



> They tried to kill them.


 There is no factual proof the Russians did it. Not even the nerve agent, IF that was what poisoned them, cannot be linked directly to the Russians. 




> British Prime Minister Theresa May says that because it was Russia that developed Novichok agents, it is “highly likely” that Russia either attacked the Skripals itself, or lost control of its Novichok to someone else who did. But other countries legally created Novichok for testing purposes after its existence was revealed in 1992,


 The US obtained it when they cleaned up the testing site.

----------


## Klondyke

> There is no factual proof the Russians did it. Not even the nerve agent, IF that was what poisoned them, cannot be linked directly to the Russians.


IF Russians wanted to poison them, they would be dead on the spot. It would save the UK all the cost with the weeks going show...




> _But other countries legally created Novichok for testing purposes_


Also UK has got it - "for its testing purposes" - how else would they know it is Novichok?

----------


## Klondyke

Czech army's main function within NATO is "Chemical Warfare Agents (CWA)  and Nuclear Weapons Defence (NWD)". That why they have many substances for their testing purposes, a. o. also Novichok: 




> Main attention of the department is concentrated on the academic research:
> 
> Firstly, in the field of the analysis of highly toxic agents  it means not only Chemical Warfare Agents but also Toxic Industrial Chemicals, heavy metals and so on. NBC Defence Institute specialists concentrate their research on:
> 
> applied research in the area of CWA detection;
> research of characteristics of new and potential CWA (R33, Novichok, PFIB);
> research of characteristic of psychoactive agents (Kolokol-1), Herbicides and TICs;
> research of biochemical cholinesterase methods.


https://www.unob.cz/en/nbcdi/Pages/C...epartment.aspx

----------


## harrybarracuda

> There is no factual proof the Russians did it.


There is no factual proof that you have seen.

But then again, you're an insignificant online gossip monger, so why would you?

----------


## Pragmatic

> There is no factual proof that you have seen.


 And you have? Harry I stopped believing in fairy tales aged about 3. You obviously still believe in them.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> And you have? Harry I stopped believing in fairy tales aged about 3. You obviously still believe in them.


Yet you seem to have manufactured one of your very own. The trouble is you can't actually articulate it.

----------


## Klondyke

> Only a fucking idiot would think they are being held against their will.


I think that many who had been still suspicious of Putin's demonic actions - you named it (in fact, I named a few) - after the Skripal's affair they have made up definitively their mind... (not some here at TD)

----------


## Pragmatic

> The trouble is you can't actually articulate it.


 I know that.   :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> I don't suppose it's occurred to you that he might not want to meet the people that tried to kill him?


It is of no legal "importance" to the legality of his statement as to what "He" desires. It is for a Judge or Jury.

Unfortunately the evidence so far produced is a MET "statement". Delivered by the MET to the MSM. Third hand, not legal.

One would have thought 'arry, the MET and the MSM would know the law of "Legal Evidence". Obviously not.

Unless I missed it, I don't believe there has been a trial where the "evidence", the MET delivered "statement", has been accepted as "the truth" either by a judge or Jury.

As asserted by the Russian Ambassadoor to London when being asked by a "reporter", "Why will you not accept the MET's word for the situation"?, the Ambassadoor questioned the legality of the MET's statement.

_"We want them to tell (us) personally what they want. If they don’t want  our assistance, that’s fine, but we want to see them physically.”_


For those interested this, below, is available from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eviden...ence_of_a_jury

_1. 

"The law of evidence, also known as the rules of evidence,  encompasses the rules and legal principles that govern the proof of  facts in a legal proceeding. These rules determine what evidence must or  must not be considered by the trier of fact in reaching its decision. The trier of fact is a judge in bench trials, or the jury in any cases involving a jury.[1]  The law of evidence is also concerned with the quantum (amount),  quality, and type of proof needed to prevail in litigation. The rules  vary depending upon whether the venue is a criminal court, civil court,  or family court, and they vary by jurisdiction."_

The "evidence" has not been accepted as truth.

2.

_"Certain kinds of evidence, such as documentary evidence, are subject to  the requirement that the offeror provide the trial judge with a certain  amount of evidence (which need not be much and it need not be very  strong) suggesting that the offered item of tangible evidence (e.g., a  document, a gun) is what the offeror claims it is."_

The MET has not proved to a judge or jury anything.

3.

_"In systems of proof based on the English common law tradition, almost all evidence must be sponsored by a witness,  who has sworn or solemnly affirmed to tell the truth. The bulk of the  law of evidence regulates the types of evidence that may be sought from  witnesses and the manner in which the interrogation of witnesses is  conducted such as during direct examination and cross-examination  of witnesses. Other types of evidentiary rules specify the standards of  persuasion (e.g., proof beyond a reasonable doubt) that a trier of  fact—whether judge or jury—must apply when it assesses evidence."_

The MET, has not sworn to anybody, that they are telling the truth ......... The alleged evidence has not been interrogated and cross examined at all before a judge or jury.

4.

_"Hearsay  is one of the largest and most complex areas of the law of evidence in  common-law jurisdictions. The default rule is that hearsay evidence is  inadmissible. Hearsay is an out of court statement offered to prove the  truth of the matter asserted. A party is offering a statement to prove  the truth of the matter asserted if the party is trying to prove that  the assertion made by the declarant (the maker of the out-of-trial  statement) is true. For example, prior to trial Bob says, "Jane went to  the store."

If the party offering this statement as evidence at trial is  trying to prove that Jane actually went to the store, the statement is  being offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted._

In this instance, the party, ( MET) is asserting, not before a Judge or Jury, that  (the gentleman concerned)  "does not wish to ........" which may be thrown  out as Hearsay.

5.

"Direct evidence  is any evidence that directly proves or disproves a fact. The most  well-known type of direct evidence is a testimony from an eye witness.  In eye-witness testimonies the witness states exactly what they  experienced, saw, or heard. Direct evidence may also be found in the  form of documents."

No evidence has been produced in a court and cross-examined, before a judge or jury.

There are another 10 sections at the link.





> Next?


Your opinion of the law is somewhat tenuous.

The MET statement: published to all, but not accepted by a judge or jury in a court as legal. 

Only 'arry, the MSM and UK officials seem to believe it's legal.



Statement issued on behalf of Yulia Skripal - Metropolitan Police

Links to press releases from the Russian Embassy in London which state which international laws and which bi-lateral legal Agreemnts the UK is ignoring.

https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6531

https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6531

http://treaties.fco.gov.uk/docs/pdf/1968/TS0092.pdf




> As far as I know, he's a BRITISH citizen,


He is also a Russian Citizen.

----------


## david44

Cam someone clarify after all the warnings months back.

One of the most deadly substances fails to kill?
Those paid dupes who did Fatboys bro at KL airport seem to have instant results.So for a few grand can rent some bimbos to off anyone like here.
How would we evaluate if the whole thing was a hoax?

----------


## Klondyke

> One would have thought 'arry, the MET and the MSM would know the law of "Legal Evidence". Obviously not.


What is a "Legal Evidence" for them?
 "Highly Likely"...

----------


## OhOh

> How would we evaluate if the whole thing was a hoax?


Torture the Skripals by waterboarding. That always seems productive.

----------


## sabang

Putin said it best- if this was a professionally carried out hit, they would have died on the spot. This is something different- but i don't pretend to know what.
The Russian mafia(s) have carried out several assassinations involving nerve agents. Why would Putin direct such an amateurish effort at such a low value target?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It is of no legal "importance" to the legality of his statement as to what "He" desires. It is for a Judge or Jury.


Some take them to court and STFU then.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Putin said it best- if this was a professionally carried out hit, they would have died on the spot. This is something different- but i don't pretend to know what.
> The Russian mafia(s) have carried out several assassinations involving nerve agents. Why would Putin direct such an amateurish effort at such a low value target?



Putin Excuse #25... "It couldn't have been us, we're good at that shit".

----------


## OhOh

> Some take them to court and STFU then.


Sent an email to THE LORD, no response yet.

----------


## Listerman

> Only a fucking idiot would think they are being held against their will.


The problem is with your eloquent assessment is that the British secret services (and by extension, the British Government) have a serious credibility issue, ever since they said the Iraqis had missile ready WMD's which could be launched towards the UK at less an hours notice.

If they were prepared to go to war on a lie to that extreme, and kill thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, then who can believe what they say now.






> Again:
> 
> They tried to kill them. So why the fuck would they want to meet the bastards?


Under the convention the Skripals have no choice in the matter, the Russians have followed due protocol, and the onus is upon the British government to comply.

If the British government is not prepared to comply with international law, then the only credible alternative is that the Skripals are been held against their will.

Can you only imagine if the situation were reversed, and Russia was holding British citizens in this regard ?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The problem is with your eloquent assessment is that the British secret services (and by extension, the British Government) have a serious credibility issue, ever since they said the Iraqis had missile ready WMD's which could be launched towards the UK at less an hours notice.
> 
> If they were prepared to go to war on a lie to that extreme, and kill thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, then who can believe what they say now.
> 
> Under the convention the Skripals have no choice in the matter, the Russians have followed due protocol, and the onus is upon the British government to comply.
> 
> If the British government is not prepared to comply with international law, then the only credible alternative is that the Skripals are been held against their will.
> 
> Can you only imagine if the situation were reversed, and Russia was holding British citizens in this regard ?


You mean like when they refuse to send the Litvinenko suspect to the UK for questioning?

Yes, I can imagine. It's the diplomatic equivalent of saying "Fuck off".

----------


## Klondyke

> If they were prepared to go to war on a lie to that extreme, and kill thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, then who can believe what they say now.


Not only innocent Iraqi civilians but also their own... (dr. Kelly)

----------


## Listerman

> You mean like when they refuse to send the Litvinenko suspect to the UK for questioning?


As no extradition treaty is presently in place between the UK and Russia, then quite simply the Russians were not obliged to do so. As there was no legal framework to compel them to comply with the British governments request (note the word request, because that's all the British government could do). Which is unlike this situation where an internationally agreed convention is in place, and the British government is in breach of the convention by not granting physical access to the Skripals.


The Russians did however offer the Met Police physical access to the Litvenyenko suspect in Russia for questioning, see here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...62631020061205

The problem as ever is that the British government does not hesitate to get on their political high horse and preach about moral standards to all and sundry when it suits their agenda. However when the situation is reversed they are conspicuously quite, ie hypocrites to the core.

Put quite simply granting the Russian access to the Skripals does not suit the agenda the British government is pushing, because to do so would raise a whole new load of awkward questions requiring uncomfortable answers. Which in all likely hood would further undermine the British governments narrative on this whole affair.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Put quite simply granting the Russian access to the Skripals does not suit the agenda the British government is pushing


Which is not giving the Russians another chance to kill them.

----------


## Listerman

> Which is not giving the Russians another chance to kill them.


I think your clutching at straws now, because if that were really the case. Then I am sure the two sides could be accommodated in two adjoining rooms separated by a laminated glass window between them, and any conversation would be via a telephone handset. it could all be videoed and taped for posterity for everyone to see, then we would know for sure exactly the situation.

This would be exactly the same process as to how maximum security prisoners are allowed to communicate with their visitors/relatives, but at the same time any exchange of contraband items are prevented from been passed from visitor to prisoner.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I think your clutching at straws now, because if that were really the case. Then I am sure the two sides could be accommodated in two adjoining rooms separated by a laminated glass window between them


You don't know much about security, do you?

----------


## Pragmatic

Let Skripal phone his mum.

http://video.dailymail.co.uk/preview...2782304908.mp4

----------


## Dragonfly

> You don't know much about security, do you?


neither do you, fraud  :rofl:

----------


## Klondyke

> You don't know much about security, do you?


There is no argument 'arry couldn't kill...

----------


## OhOh

> 'arry couldn't kill...


'arry has no intention of killing anything. His role is to enable me to earn a gram or two of GOLD. He gets his 10%.

Give him a break, I've got  a mia noi or two to feed and dress. They're quite capable of undressing themselves, but are exhausted and need assistance just to stand up, on their wobbly legs, afterwards.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> 'arry has no intention of killing anything. His role is to enable me to earn a gram or two of GOLD. He gets his 10%.
> 
> Give him a break, I've got  a mia noi or two to feed and dress. They're quite capable of undressing themselves, but are exhausted and need assistance just to stand up, on their wobbly legs, afterwards.


You've always got a hot date with tuskers to fall back on.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

Spill the beans, is she gentle or a domineering type?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Spill the beans, is she gentle or a domineering type?


She? I think it's a big black bloke mate.

----------


## OhOh

In your dreams.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> In your dreams.


Hey it's not me he's fawning over.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

I've managed adoration in the past, the present and probably in the future. Give a little of what they want and they're happy. Give it all and they are never satisfied.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Yulia Skrpal has spoken to Reuters.




> Skripal spoke in Russian and supplied a statement that she said she had written herself in both Russian and English. She signed both documents after making her statement.
> 
> 'I'm grateful for the offers of assistance from the Russian Embassy. But at the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services,' Skripal, who wore a light blue summer dress and bore a scar on her neck said.
> 
> 
> 'Also, I want to reiterate what I said in my earlier statement, that no one speaks for me, or for my father but ourselves.'


Or to paraphrase: "Fuck off Putin".

She also said she would like to return to Russia one day. Presumably when the old c u n t has pegged it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1IO2LT

----------


## Begbie

“We are so lucky to have both survived this attempted assassination. Our recovery has been slow and extremely paineful,” she said in her written English statement. 
“As I try to come to terms with the devtastating changes thrust upon me both physically and emotionally, I take one day at a time and want to help care for my Dad till his full recovery. In the longer term I hope to return home to my country.”

I’m trying to come to terms with the fact that the English seems awfully posh. Almost as though it was written by someone who went to Rodean before pater got her a position with MI6.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I’m trying to come to terms with the fact that the English seems awfully posh.


I should imagine anyone that can string a sentence together with words of more than one syllable would seem posh to you.

 :Smile:

----------


## david44

She looked pretty chipper,perky , perhaps just had a spa break with salman and a few scubbers, new ID soon and whisked off to the colonies once daddes sauce bottled

Storm in a fur cup

----------


## Klondyke

> Yulia Skrpal has spoken to Reuters.


So, who can say it's not transparent ('arry surely will not say)...
And we can see in her eyes the fear of Mr. Putin's henchmen around...
Everybody happy now?

----------


## Begbie

The Reuter’s article refers to a written statement which she read aloud and then refused to address any questions. My point is that the English is very strange, as if written by someone who’d attended an English public school and unlikely to have been composed by Ms Skripal herself. This really adds nothing to the question of what actually happened but does imply that the victims are under the control of the security services.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The Reuter’s article refers to a written statement which she read aloud and then refused to address any questions. My point is that the English is very strange, as if written by someone who’d attended an English public school and unlikely to have been composed by Ms Skripal herself. This really adds nothing to the question of what actually happened but does imply that the victims are under the control of the security services.


Yes, because there's no way a university educated woman can write properly, is there?

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Klondyke

> Yes, because there's no way a university educated woman can write properly, is there?


Didn't I say, 'arry has an answer to any comment. 
(can it be called "a clue"?)

----------


## Dragonfly

> The Reuters article refers to a written statement which she read aloud and then refused to address any questions. My point is that the English is very strange, as if written by someone whod attended an English public school and unlikely to have been composed by Ms Skripal herself. This really adds nothing to the question of what actually happened but does imply that the victims are under the control of the security services.


indeed, not unusual that PR services are being used in a such a case

after all, it's another political manipulation by Theresa May government

----------


## Klondyke

^In Bliar's govt they had a specialist Alastair Campbell. He is now an ambassador for "mental health charities".  :yerman: 




> He resigned in August 2003 during the Hutton Inquiry into the death of David Kelly. He published his thirteenth book in 2017. He is editor at large of The New European and chief interviewer for GQ magazine. He continues to act as a consultant strategist and as an ambassador for Time To Change and other mental health charities.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alastair_Campbell

----------


## Listerman

> The Reuters article refers to a written statement which she read aloud and then refused to address any questions. My point is that the English is very strange, as if written by someone whod attended an English public school and unlikely to have been composed by Ms Skripal herself. This really adds nothing to the question of what actually happened but does imply that the victims are under the control of the security services.


Exactly, and done this way to ensure that no awkward questions were asked.

With the exception of the Tacheotomy, she looks to be in remarkably good health, ie with no obvious physical impairments (remember this deadly substance is supposed to cause long term and debilitating medical complications due to permanently blocking nerve path ways).  I find it strange that someone could be exposed to such a toxic substance, then be put into a medically induced coma for a month, and then look as fresh as a daisy less than 3 months later.

----------


## Pragmatic

> look as fresh as a daisy less than 3 months later.


 She does look a bit thinner than her pictures prior to her alleged assassination attempt. I suppose the internet sales of Novachok are going to go through the roof in 2018 now? Either that or it's a trip down to 'Weightwatchers' for a quick sprinkling.   :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Tacheotomy.... Novachok.....

Well her English is better than yours anyway.

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

> Yulia Skrpal has spoken to Reuters


She read a Russian auto cue, and signed a hand copied official translation, in the presence of a obliging MSM. Nothing more certainly not speaking as a relaxed person would.




> does imply that the victims are under the control of the security services.


Not threatened, she has been violated, imprisoned, brain zapped and now her fathers life is in her hands. Play the game or return to the hell we gave you previously.




> no way a university educated woman can write properly, is there?


You saw her compose it in Russian, translate it into English, write it? Or see her sign a prepared copy on TV?




> not unusual that PR services are being used in a such a case


No, No, our roving reporter 'arry has been keeping her company day and night for 3 months. He can guarantee the proof videoed in an English park. A public one at that, did you see all the dog walkers, nannies, doggers in the bushes, a sunny May day and no teen girls sunning themselves? 

No, neither did I. 

I have full confidence in 'arry's ability to read tea leaves after swallowing MI6's, imported from Pattaya, pork pies.

----------


## Listerman

> Tacheotomy.... Novachok.....
> 
> Well her English is better than yours anyway.


Obviously can't come up with a reasoned counter response, so you resort to the old style over substance argument, still at least it's a variation on your more usual ad-hominem approach.

----------


## david44

The non lethal deadly slimming and makeover substance ambush marketing has been an utter success

Rebranded by Key Wee entreprenuer Dickie Blanco 

NOVACOK 

easier for Thai girls to get their tongue around, nice kip wake up better looking, works foe me its going in her Horlicks

----------


## OhOh

> wake up better looking


Tis a very old northern, lower middle class, image, she needs to  keep up with the times. Notice the slight tilt of the head? Some over exaggerate the amount of tilt. 




Obviously Julia has been "taught", possibly by cattle pronging in the  Thameside dungeons, to keep her head straight at all times to suggest  she is in control of her bodily functions.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Obviously can't come up with a reasoned counter response, so you resort to the old style over substance argument, still at least it's a variation on your more usual ad-hominem approach.


"reasoned counter response" to the fanciful spoutings of your vivid imagination?

 :Confused:

----------


## Begbie

> Obviously Julia has been "taught", possibly by cattle pronging in the  Thameside dungeons, to keep her head straight at all times to suggest  she is in control of her bodily functions.


Before 006 1/2 steps in let me point out that should be cattle prodding. Funny but probably not far from the truth.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Before 006 1/2 steps in let me point out that should be cattle prodding. Funny but probably not far from the truth.


Wow everyone's at it.

Alternatively she just wrote a statement, had it translated by a lackey in the FO who added a bit of artistic license, but she still wants Putin to fuck off.

----------


## Klondyke

> "reasoned counter response" to the fanciful spoutings of your vivid imagination?





> Alternatively she just wrote a statement, had it translated by a lackey in the FO who added a bit of artistic license, but she still wants Putin to fuck off.


Didn't I say 'arry knows answer to any remark? (has "a clue")...

----------


## SKkin

> Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance


Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal has been discharged from hospital, two   months after being poisoned with a nerve agent in Salisbury.
Ex-spy Sergei Skripal discharged after poisoning - BBC News

The Skripal Case Is Being Pushed Down the Memory Hole with Libya and Aleppo
https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...ya-aleppo.html




> On  the fourth of March, in the sleepy  British cathedral town of Salisbury,  an ex-spy named Sergei Skripal was  poisoned by an assassin with the  most deadly nerve agent known to man.
> 
> The Russian government was immediately blamed by a shocked and outraged world. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson assured the people of Great Britain  that  Theres no doubt that Moscow was responsible. In a large and  sudden  leap forward in cold war escalations, Russian diplomats were  thrown out  of countries all around the globe, including my own Australia, in a show of solidarity with the United Kingdom. It was the largest collective ejection of Russian diplomats in history.
> 
> Two  months after his  earth-shattering assassination, as the world stared  spellbound at the  weekends immensely popular PR spectacle of a royal  wedding, Sergei  Skripal was quietly discharged from the hospital hed been staying at. The BBC reports that he is walking and approaching complete recovery.
> 
> Wait a second. Havent I seen this Python skit before?


The daughter is still alive too, right?

----------


## Klondyke

Pity that the "international community" cannot enjoy more photos of the Litvinenko and Skripals. Doesn't the govt have some "embedded" photographs (like they were "embedded") during the Iraq war? 

Then at least we would see something more (even if authorized by govt) from the Skripals than behind the bars in Russia...

----------


## Pragmatic

> The daughter is still alive too, right?


 The only people to have survived being contaminated by Novichok, one of the most lethal nerve agents known to man, without dying.  Miracles do happen, apparently.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

> Before 006 1/2 steps in let me point out that should be cattle prodding


You've obviously never had to clean out the stables, a weekend job for many of the Crawley and Horsham Hunt. 



An ideal tool to keep the amorous hunters, both the stallions and the whipper-in, away from the teenage stable girls.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The only people to have survived being contaminated by Novichok, one of the most lethal nerve agents known to man, without dying.  Miracles do happen, apparently.



That's not true.

----------


## OhOh

> That's not true.


Let's not forget the heroic MI6 handler.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Let's not forget the heroic MI6 handler.


Nor the Russian chemist, although it killed him years later.

----------


## Begbie

> Nor the Russian chemist, although it killed him years later.


Man that door handle will get you every time.

----------


## david44

> Man that door handle will get you every time.


 ah knobrot, luckily we have several resident experts :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

The world let this arsehole get away with invading Ukraine, so the least the fucker can do is let these two live out their lives.

After all, his little dog and pony show served its purpose.

----------


## OhOh

> with invading Ukraine


Nobody invaded Ukraine, some military was already legally there, by a signed and recognised by the world treaty, not a soon to be gone in the ether, tweet. Who assisted the freedom fighters in protecting their own and their wife's and children's Human Rights. 

The military force assisted the freedom fighters by responding, immediately, to a call of assistance for protection against an illegal regime's terrorists attacks on unarmed civilians. 

Nobody bombed the place back to the stone age.

Nobody destroyed the water supply system.

Nobody introduced any plagues.

Nobody demanded a change of religious beliefs.

Nobody arrested and tortured innocent children

Nobody slit a throat, either adult or child.



Not like some lesser foreign countries recent and historically documented, actions. There 'arry more facts, for you to rant about.

----------


## OhOh

> is let these two live out their lives


We have, currently, only read two scripted notes and one staged event of one Russian citizen. The other allegedly, is alive but nobody has seen, heard or produced any facts proving he is alive.




> After all, his little dog and pony show served its purpose


I'm sure some ameristanis are very appreciative of the UK's sanitation dept's (SANTA) efforts to rid the world of worthless spies. One by attempted murder another by government decreed gagging.

----------


## jabir

Haven't been following this thread, but Putin says it can't have been Russia that poisoned them because if it had been they would be dead. Seems to make sense, but that leaves the Brit authorities all in with 7-high, and more embarrassed than before.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Nobody invaded Ukraine.
> 
>  There 'arry more facts, for you to rant about.


You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "fact".

----------


## Dragonfly

because you do harry ?  :rofl:

----------


## Little Chuchok

> Putin said it best- if this was a professionally carried out hit, they would have died on the spot. This is something different- but i don't pretend to know what.
> The Russian mafia(s) have carried out several assassinations involving nerve agents. Why would Putin direct such an amateurish effort at such a low value target?


Exactly.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Exactly.


Quite.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _The Russian mafia(s) have carried out several assassinations involving nerve agents. Why would Putin direct such an amateurish effort at such a low value target?_


1. Not in the UK they haven't. The last time they used a Polonium cuppa, remember?
2. Perhaps you forgot Putin's not-so-veiled threat to kill people caught spying against Russia around the time Skripal was swapped.

----------


## Dragonfly

Hey Sherlock, why are you on TD, you should work for Scotland Yard since you know everything without a shred of evidence  :rofl:

----------


## Klondyke

> Hey Sherlock, why are you on TD, you should work for Scotland Yard since you know everything without a shred of evidence


It's a sickness, is it curable?

----------


## OhOh

> remember?


Another unproven, in a court of law before a jury, fairytale.




> to kill


"To kill" or "to forgive", a Russian source if you are able to find your reference?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Another unproven, in a court of law before a jury, fairytale.


That's the only place it hasn't been proven because Putin is obstructing justice.






> "To kill" or "to forgive", a Russian source if you are able to find your reference?


"Traitors will kick the bucket" he said.

Where I come from that doesn't mean you'll be forgiven.

----------


## Pragmatic

> "Traitors will kick the bucket" he said.
> 
> Where I come from that doesn't mean you'll be forgiven.


 And where I come from it's all down to interpretation. Believe what you want Harry.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...ssinated/40911

----------


## OhOh

> will kick the bucket


Everybody "kicks the bucket" if that is what he said.  It's not a term I suspect he would use. Was The Sun your source? 

How does that fact incriminate THE LORD, personally? Please don't say he's an advisor to the Gods.

----------


## Pragmatic

> It's not a term I suspect he would use.


 Indeed it isn't.




> The quote (in English) however doesn't directly imply anything beyond holding a grudge, and is not exactly an overt threat. It could be interpreted to be an implied threat, but that point is quite subjective.


https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...ssinated/40911

----------


## OhOh

I went to your linked site after I had last posted. It seems 'arry source was The Sun. Better known for it's page 3 spreads.

----------


## harrybarracuda

It's remarkable how every single comment on that site is basically sucking up to Putin.

No doubt OhOh has already bookmarked it.

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## OhOh

> No doubt OhOh has already bookmarked it.


What in earth for? 

One poster ask a descent question and three posters reply factually, very fully. Must be because the answers didn't fit your own.


Hardly MSM propaganda site in any way. Or are you a MK fan, if it doesn't have 2.5m idiots arguing with each other, similar to Zero hedge, it's not a reliable source?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> What in earth for? 
> 
> One poster ask a descent question and three posters reply factually, very fully. Must be because the answers didn't fit your own.
> 
> 
> Hardly MSM propaganda site in any way. Or are you a MK fan, if it doesn't have 2.5m idiots arguing with each other, similar to Zero hedge, it's not a reliable source?


So yes then.

----------


## OhOh

It appears that BBC Newsnight had a programme out Yulia and her father:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0b52781/newsnight-29052018

Some, alleged, snippets from RT:

_"The evening that Yulia and Sergei were admitted, at that point  we were led to believe that they have taken an overdose, so there was no  mention of nerve agent poisoning,"_ Sarah Clark, ward sister in charge of the shift on March 4, told BBC2's Newsnight in an interview broadcast on Tuesday. _"They were needing their support with their breathing and support with their cardiovascular system."

__"At first, when they first came in, there was no indication of the  fact that it was a nerve agent. And therefore, we take our normal  protection when any patient comes in but would have not at that point  taken any extra precaution in terms of protecting ourselves,"_ Clark said.'

_Things at the hospital began to slowly change when police told the  medical staff on Monday morning that they were dealing with victims of a  potential "targeted attack." Dr. Duncan Murray, the hospital's senior intensive care consultant, recalled how he discovered the identity of the Skripals at "six o'clock on a Monday morning," while Cara Charles Barks, chief executive at the hospital, said that only by 10am was the case declared an "external incident."

__"While the Skripals were first admitted to the hospital on Sunday  evening, it was not until Tuesday that doctors realized they were seeing  "symptoms typical of organophosphate" or nerve agent  poisoning, the BBC investigation claims. This suspicion arose after  Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, one of the officers who had attended the  scene but whose fate was not part of the BBC report, was admitted with "similar" symptoms."

_One wonders who told the medical staff or determined the "overdose" scenario, started them off on that treatment course and how many UK hospital doctors know what the symptoms of CW are and how to treat a suspected CW patient? Or did the police, with no medical knowledge of the case get a tip off from high/informed PD specialist , or just guess?

 I suppose being in Salisbury, just down the road from PD, they had some contact generally.Convenient eh?

----------


## Begbie

^The implication being that a CW wasn’t suspected until the identity of the victims was revealed.  The hypothesis of the crime was then tailored to fit the victims.

----------


## Dragonfly

looks like Ukraine can stage fake murders, but they got caught by the FSB and they had to come out  :Smile: 

Harry is on the case  :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^The implication being that a CW wasn’t suspected until the identity of the victims was revealed.  The hypothesis of the crime was then tailored to fit the victims.


Translation: the crime wasn't attributed until they identified the toxin as a Russian special.

----------


## Klondyke

Pity all the doctors and nurses, their life is surely not so easy... (Also new identity?)

----------


## Pragmatic

> the crime wasn't attributed until they identified the toxin as a Russian special.


 Firstly 


> The formulas for 'Novichoks' are known, various military laboratories have made some and any decent organic chemistry laboratory can create them too. The U.S., which had produced some of the 'Novichok' agents for itself, had long told its diplomats to avoid any discussions about them.


Secondly, 40 minutes prior to the Skripals being found unconscious in the park they had


> a seafood risotto pesce with king prawns, mussels and squid rings at Zizzi, as reported here in the _Daily Mail_ on March 6.This is a dish with a well known reputation as a source of shellfish poisoning.




I still believe they suffered the effects of PSP 


> Another official PSP Fact Sheet (pdf) provides:_What is the treatment? _ Unfortunately, there is no antidote for PSP toxins; however, *supportive medical care can be life saving*. For example, persons whose breathing muscles become paralyzed can be put on a mechanical respirator and given oxygen to help them breath, and people who develop a cardiac arrhythmia (abnormal heart rhythm) can be given medications to stabilize their heart rhythm.The similarity with symptoms and effect derived from a nerve agent are striking, but no surprise:


http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04...poisoning.html

----------


## Begbie

> Firstly 
> Secondly, 40 minutes prior to the Skripals being found unconscious in the park they had
> 
> 
> 
> I still believe they suffered the effects of PSP 
> 
> MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning


I’m sure most people would agree with that being the likeliest explanation. The question then is why did the security services concoct the Novichok story? I suspect it’s a symptom of the incompetence that characterizes the upper echelons of government in the UK. Once they’d made the hasty and poorly supported CW claim, they were too stupid to retract it.

----------


## Pragmatic

> The question then is why did the security services concoct the Novichok story?


 Cuz they jumped the gun. Now they're left with egg on their faces and it's proving hard to remove it.

----------


## OhOh

> they identified the toxin as a Russian specia


Which PD keeps a handy stockpile locally.




> their life is surely not so easy


Lots of available beds for a snooze or illicit romps. Wais from the serfs.




> why did the security services concoct the Novichok story


To get rid of Maggie May?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I’m sure most people would agree with that being the likeliest explanation. The question then is why did the security services concoct the Novichok story? I suspect it’s a symptom of the incompetence that characterizes the upper echelons of government in the UK. Once they’d made the hasty and poorly supported CW claim, they were too stupid to retract it.


So all of those medical workers that treated them for months don't know the difference between shellfish poisoning and nerve agents.

And I suppose they were the only two people that had shellfish at a seafood restaurant that day.

My god you lot love clinging to your fairy stories, don't you?

 :bananaman:

----------


## Pragmatic

> So all of those medical workers that treated them for months don't know the difference between shellfish poisoning and nerve agents.


Harry the symptoms of PSP is exactly the same for Novichok contamination. Where as the Novichok will kill you within minutes, as Mr Putin said, PSP patients are placed on respirators and heart drugs and then await for the PSP to pass through their system. Novichok does not pass through the system. With PSP you can survive. Novichok you can't.

----------


## Pragmatic

> I suppose they were the only two people that had shellfish at a seafood restaurant that day.


 Others could have eaten the same but 




> Fact: Sometimes only one person gets sick after eating a shared food item that was contaminated.
> The details: Most of the time you cannot tell what it was that made you sick. Remember: It might not have even been the food that made you sick. You might have gotten it some other way. But let’s say that somehow we know for sure the germ that made you sick came from food. Well, sometimes more than one person can eat the same contaminated food and only one person will get sick. Or one person gets much sicker than someone else (see Myth No. 3). There are lots of reasons for this.
> Maybe the person who got sick was fighting off a different illness or was felling stressed or tired, so his or her germ-fighting immune system wasn’t up to par. At the same time, maybe everyone else did swallow the germs, but their immune systems fought it off before the germs made them sick.
> Maybe the people who didn’t get sick actually were sick with a bout or two of diarrhea but didn’t think to mention it. (A lot of people focus on the vomiting and forget or are embarrassed to mention anything about diarrhea.)
> Or maybe there was a pocket of food that was more heavily contaminated, and the person who got sick drew the “unlucky” card.


https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...poisoning.html

----------


## Klondyke

And the other Russian spy Glushkov died nearby - no worry about his death? A right hand of poor late Berezovsky.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rdered-but-why

----------


## Klondyke

The Russian dissident found strangled in his home had been in a gay relationship for years, it emerged yesterday.

Nikolai Glushkov, 68, was found strangled on Monday last week, the same day as Theresa May issued an ultimatum to Russia over the Salisbury nerve agent attack. The Metropolitan Police began a murder inquiry after a post-mortem examination concluded he had died of compression to the neck.The Russian dissident found strangled in his home had been in a gay relationship for years, it emerged yesterday.

Nikolai Glushkov, 68, was found strangled on Monday last week, the same day as Theresa May issued an ultimatum to Russia over the Salisbury nerve agent attack. The Metropolitan Police began a murder inquiry after a post-mortem examination concluded he had died of compression to the neck.

A friend of Mr Glushkov, who has a son and daughter from a previous marriage, said that he had been in a relationship with Denis Trushin, aged in his twenties, for several years. The friend said: He was gay and he was involved with Denis. Denis was his boyfriend. They were a steady couple.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...over-7200x88jq

----------


## Klondyke

Why Mr. Putin does not allow the mother to her son? (Or somebody else does?)

'I do not represent any danger to anyone': *Sergei Skripal's 90-year-old mother makes tearful Russian state TV appeal* for the chance to speak to her ex-spy son after his hospital release
Yelena Skripal, 89, claims she has not been allowed to speak to her son Sergei
Russian ex-spy and his daughter poisoned in Salisbury, UK, using nerve agent
Skripal and daughter Yulia, 33, have since been discharged from hospital
Mother Skripal appeared on Russian TV and begged to speak to her son 

Yelena Skripal - who will be 90 next month - claims the UK has been stopping her from speaking to her son, who was discharged from hospital last week.

She accuses the UK of preventing Skripal from contacting his family in Russia, adding: 'Please, allow me to make just one phone call with my son.
'But why don't they allow him to phone. Why? What is the reason?
'After all, when he was at home we used to talk every week. And now for some reason, we are not allowed to talk.
'I ask for him to be allowed to talk to me.'

Read more: Poisoned ex-spy Sergei Skripal's mother in Russian state TV appeal | Daily Mail Online 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

She does not know why. Just ask 'arry...

----------


## Latindancer

Maybe the poison affected his power of speech ? As a nerve agent, it may well have affected either his brain or his larynx / physical articulation.

----------


## Dragonfly

> Im sure most people would agree with that being the likeliest explanation. The question then is why did the security services concoct the Novichok story? I suspect its a symptom of the incompetence that characterizes the upper echelons of government in the UK. Once theyd made the hasty and poorly supported CW claim, they were too stupid to retract it.


I think it's more cynic than that, Maybot "special services" saw an opportunity to "attack" Putin on a false pretense, probably as retaliation for something else we don't know about, or weak Russian position just before a vote to attack Syria etc...

it's a silly spying game, all losing in an endless and pointless game

----------


## OhOh

> Maybe the poison affected his power of speech ?


Here is a new add for losing weight and making one more desirable to some. Dillinger are you watching?



Unfortunately it does appear to require surgery in the throat area. Yulia allegedly can now speak. Maybe as you suggest her father has lost his vocal cords entirely. 

Or it wasn't Yulia in the propaganda video! What some women will do for a free facelift.

----------


## Pragmatic

^ 
She doesn't need glasses anymore either. May be 'SpecSave' needs to diversify and sell Novichok?

----------


## OhOh

*German Officials Admit 'Still No Evidence' From UK That Russia Poisoned Skripals*




_It seems notably fortuitous that the world is now distracted with  the ongoing actions surrounding President Trump - whether in Quebec  tweet-slamming PM Trudeau, or in Singapore ahead of his historic summit  with North Korea's Kim Jong Un

We say 'fortuitous' since it offers UK PM Theresa May some breathing room as her dramatic, quickly determined, and globally propagandized claims that Russia was the culprit for the poisoning of the Russian ex-agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter; remain entirely unsubstantiated by any proof.
_
_However, just as May was hoping the world had forgot dozens of  nations expelled hundreds of Russian diplomats on nothing more than her  word and the constant Russophobic narrative pumped thru the eyeballs and  earholes of the rest of the world; the Germans just threw a  rather loud wrench in the slient-running PR campaign that has taken the  Skripal-murdering Putin off the frontpage.
_
_German media reports that  the German government has zero evidence from the British authorities  that could back London’s claims that Moscow was behind the poisoning of  the Skripals
_
_  More than three months since the start of the probe into the  poisoning of former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter  Yulia, RT reports that the UK is still conspicuously tight-lipped when it comes to any real evidence that could prove its accusations against Russia.

__This week, the German government informed a parliamentary  oversight committee during a closed hearing that it still has not  received any evidence suggesting that Russia might well be behind the  incident that took place in early March, German TV station RBB reports.

__“It is [still] only known that the poison used in  the attack was a nerve agent called Novichok, which was once produced  in the Soviet Union,” Michael Goetschenberg, a correspondent of  German ARD and an expert on security services, told RBB, commenting on  the results of the hearing, which he is familiar with.
__Apart from this information, which was released by the British  authorities soon after the incident, no new data on Russia’s alleged  implication in this case was provided to Germany so far, he added.


_
_German intelligence has also found no Russian trace in this case so far, Goetschenberg said.

__“The BND, Germany’s foreign intelligence… has  also contacted its own sources and tried to verify the information  [about Russia’s potential involvement] in some way,” he told RBB, adding that it eventually failed to find any evidence pointing to Moscow as well.
__  Russia has categorically denied any involvement, and has complained that the victims were not allowed visits by Russian lawyers and diplomats, and the results of the investigation were kept secret. The Russian envoy to the UK has on several occasions alleged that London was even trying to “destroy” evidence in the probe.

__Just days ago, Scotland Yard said it was still following  multiple leads in the investigation, adding that it still “cannot  discuss the results at this stage.” The probe has already cost  £7.5 million ($10 million) to British taxpayers, according to the  region’s police and crime commissioner.
_
_Meanwhile, both Sergei and Yulia Skripal have been released from the  hospital, seemingly no worse for the attampted assassination using the  world's most deadly nerve agent.

__Are we still supposed to believe that Vladimir Putin - the  man who western media and politicians blame for meddling with US  elections to get Trump elected, manipulating French elections  (unsuccessfully), murdering reporters (that actually came back to life),  causing Brexit, killing millions in Syria (and anywhere else that US  hegemony is bring back democracy), enabling an entire nation's athletes  to take steroids, and probably causing LeBron and the Cavs to get  swept - managed to mess up the delivery of a deadly military grade nerve agent to kill an old man and a young woman?"

https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/german-officials-admit-still-no-evidence-uk-russia-poisoned-skripals/ri23765



_Must keep this off the front pages._
_

----------


## harrybarracuda

"russia-insider.com".

Do you *ever* use a proper fucking website son?

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

There are links in the post to the German version, you would of course need to read the post prior to posting your informative reply. 

I thought i had included it but it doesn't appear to be there. here it is for you.

https://www.inforadio.de/programm/sc...07/242933.html

----------


## harrybarracuda

> There are links in the post to the German version, you would of course need to read the post prior to posting your informative reply. 
> 
> I thought i had included it but it doesn't appear to be there. here it is for you.
> 
> https://www.inforadio.de/programm/sc...07/242933.html


Since you made such a dog and pony show of claiming your "criteria" before believing a news story, I'd suggest you fucking use them.

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

> a dog and pony show of claiming your "criteria"


????? ::chitown::

----------


## Cujo

> Why Mr. Putin does not allow the mother to her son? (Or somebody else does?)
> 
> 'I do not represent any danger to anyone': *Sergei Skripal's 90-year-old mother makes tearful Russian state TV appeal* for the chance to speak to her ex-spy son after his hospital release
> Yelena Skripal, 89, claims she has not been allowed to speak to her son Sergei
> Russian ex-spy and his daughter poisoned in Salisbury, UK, using nerve agent
> Skripal and daughter Yulia, 33, have since been discharged from hospital
> Mother Skripal appeared on Russian TV and begged to speak to her son 
> 
> Yelena Skripal - who will be 90 next month - claims the UK has been stopping her from speaking to her son, who was discharged from hospital last week.
> ...


That sounds like utter bullshit.

----------


## OhOh

> That sounds like utter bullshit.


it may or not be true, as you suggest, but until you investigate the claim and either agree or confirms it's bullshit, your adding nothing.

----------


## Pragmatic

George Galloway has his say.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Wonder how much George got paid for that one. I didn't realise he was a Russian lackey now that the Mussies have kicked him out.

----------


## Begbie

I’m not going to play that video. George is a mouth for hire, an arsehole only looking to further inflate his gross ego and his bank account.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ?????


Oh I'm not wasting my time trawling for any of your dross posts.

It was something about "two named government officals and blah blah blah".

Fucking hell, I know you don't read what others write before you go off one one, but don't you even remember all the shit you post yourself?

 :Smile:

----------


## cisco999

> Pies. Bloody British pies. That's what did it.



Can't get enough of them.

----------


## cisco999

> Wonder how much George got paid for that one. I didn't realise he was a Russian lackey now that the Mussies have kicked him out.




More surprises are on the way.

----------


## Klondyke

^Who has guts like him to call the things by their real names? 

If somebody says things uncomfortable to hear, the best is to leave the scene - and not to listen. 
Like some delegations (please no names here) at the UN General Assembly when Khaddafi told them the things...

----------


## OhOh

*Russian Embassy Urges US to Destroy Chemical Stockpile***_"MOSCOW (Sputnik) -  Russia’s Embassy in Washington demanded Thursday that the United States  destroy its chemical weapons and reveal what it knows about the  notorious Novichok toxin, allegedly used in an attack on a Russian  ex-spy in Salisbury.
_

_The  call was made a day after the US Department of State denied an  accusation by a Russian general that US special operations forces were  plotting a fake chemical attack in eastern Syria to frame the Syrian  government.

"Even [the Department of State] cannot deny any CW [chemical weapons]  provocation in Syria having the same scenario Let's remind you about the  loud exposure of the staged Douma 'attack’. Reveal US 'Novichok' files! Destroy your CW stockpiles!" the embassy tweeted.
_
_The United States has several times postponed the destruction of its  chemical weapons cache after initially vowing to get rid of it by 2007.  The next deadline is in five years. Russia has destroyed some 40,000  tonnes of chemical agents between 2002 and 2017."

https://sputniknews.com/us/201806151065426595-russia-urges-usa-destroy-chemical/

_Or is this another legally binding, international agreement thrown in ameristanis ever growing shipping container?

----------


## OhOh

*Cover-up? Twitter reacts to report that UK government will buy Skripals house*

_"The house of Sergei Skripal will be purchased by UK taxpayers,  according to officials cited by The Sunday Times. The move has prompted a  range of responses online  from cover-up allegations to jokes about  home ownership.      
_
_Taxpayers will be footing  the bill for Skripals home, which is expected to be bought by the UK  government for around £350,000 (US$464,000), The Sunday Times reported,  citing Whitehall officials. They will also pay for the home of  Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey, who fell ill after coming into contact  with the nerve agent Novichok. That house is expected to cost taxpayers  around £430,000. All in all, the purchase of both homes, cars, and other  possessions, will amount to a hefty £1 million.
_
_But the  governments decision to snatch up Skripals house has raised eyebrows  online, including from those who believe the UK has something to hide, since there remains zero evidence to back claims that Russia was behind the poisoning of Skripal and his daughter Yulia.
_
_it is because the whole thing was a made up lie
_
_ TheGlobeIsALie (@LolSpinningBaLL) June 24, 2018
__Others  commented that such a huge sum of money could be used to help get the  Grenfell Tower victims back on their feet, after a tragic fire swept  over the building and killed 72 people last year.
_
_Another suggested it could go towards the National Health Service (NHS).
_
_Other taxpayers, however, were able to make light of the situation, jesting about their unexpected home ownership.
_
_Skripal,  a former Russian double agent, and his daughter were poisoned in  Salisbury, UK on March 4. Although London and other Western nations were  quick to point the finger at the Kremlin, there remains zero proof that  Russia was involved in any way. Moscow has repeatedly denied any  involvement and offered its full cooperation in the investigation."_

https://www.rt.com/uk/430733-uk-taxpayers-skripal-house/

One wonders where the two "poisoned" Russians will be living, once their usefulness has gone. Living off their Russian pension and UK government gifts and lecture tour payments? Or will they have a sudden relapse and die heroes deaths. To be commemorated by a special wreath laid at a statue in Whitehall on 11th November.

----------


## Fluke

> The world let this arsehole get away with invading Ukraine, so the least the fucker can do is let these two live out their lives.
> 
> After all, his little dog and pony show served its purpose.


   Could you stop swearing Harry ?
Its unpleasant to keep reading your profanitys
Try to think of other words to use, rather than "shit , areshole , fuck, fucker, fucking" etc

----------


## harrybarracuda

Might as well just rename this thread to "Ohoh's mindless Russian propaganda site reposting thread". There's fuck all else left in the original news item.

----------


## SKkin

> Might as well just rename this thread to "Ohoh's mindless Russian propaganda site reposting thread".


How about from  UK sites Harry?

As the Skripal theories abound, I'm reminded of when I visited Iraq at the time of the dodgy dossier
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8259416.html

Salisbury spy poisoning: Taxpayers foot bill for Sergei Skripals contaminated home
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...home-rf6stt79l

----------


## harrybarracuda

> How about from  UK sites Harry?
> 
> As the Skripal theories abound, I'm reminded of when I visited Iraq at the time of the dodgy dossier
> https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8259416.html
> 
> Salisbury spy poisoning: Taxpayers foot bill for Sergei Skripal’s contaminated home
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...home-rf6stt79l



See Ohoh? Not hard is it.

----------


## OhOh

> There's fuck all else left in the original news item.


Says TD's braggadocious poster (Edmund Spenser's _The Faerie Queene_ (1590).

In some MSM, 100% correct, old news, based on unproven accusations. The mud stuck. Move on too another juicy story regarding johnny foreigner to take ones mind off the lack of citizens money for the NHS but plenty for an expanded military. The plebs here at TD and elsewhere, seem to enjoy eating shit sandwiches, on a daily basis. It reinforces there prejudices.

The consequences, illegal attacks on foreign soil, diplomatic expulsions and ingrained propaganda are long living items which need to be factually proven. As such much muck was raked to discover only a sewer leading potentially to a UK false flag organised either by the UK government or their masters. There has been no clarification of the Skripal senior's UK handlers at all, along with any iteration in certain dodgy dossier they prepared from some current and past ameristani politicians.

There is also allegedly, some discussion going on regarding the OPCW's enhanced role in "investigating" and "naming" the culprits of new and past CW attacks. Being pushed I believe by the UK FM.

TASS: Russian Politics & Diplomacy - Russia ready to counter UK?s OPCW initiative, chief delegate says

The lack of local coverage now, of the Salisbury affair, only goes to show how managed the local MSM is, either through "hints" from editors or political pressure. 

The awaited report from the MET seems to be one of those "we will get to the bottom of this" as a desirable promise, to "is anybody bovvered" farce. But the UK citizens seems accustomed to a multi year expensive "investigation" concluding no UK PM was culpable in the deaths of 100,000 of Libyan, Iraqi, Syrian or Yemeni civilian deaths.

All hats and no cattle!

----------


## baldrick

what contemporary non fiction books about russia do you recommend ?

I have recently read " The less you know , the better you sleep." by David Satter

also  "the future is history "by Masha Gessen

‘Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible,’ by Peter Pomerantsev

they all paint a very bleak picture

----------


## OhOh

Looking at the reviews of the books I can see why. Did you pick the books after reading the reviews or in some other way?

When I moved to Thailand permanently and spent more time on TD I realised that there was very little regarding China included and what would be useful was to try a put some information here to balance the scales. That is what I try and do, to some posters enjoyment and to others, utter horror. Russia became involved because they became joined at the hip with China so Russia became part of my enjoyment. I've been putting my head above the parapet for years and can tease with the best.



Once you accept that all elections are fraudulent you must move on to another means of measuring a countries leaders achievements.

My personal measure is to compare the officially stated government objectives and their leaders success, in delivering them. In my opinion there are 4 world powers.

China, EU, Ameristan and Russia. Of those three, ameristan is IMHO,wasting away. The EU has lost it's way and needs to sort it's problems out. China is a young country in terms of only re-entering the world sphere less than 30-40 years ago.

Russia alone has continued for centuries along it's "chosen" path. Catastrophic problems have been inflicted by itself and upon it by others. But their current partnership with China has forced Russia to asses it's strengths and weaknesses. A future is forming and if China and Russia, along with their existing and potential partners can complete their stated tasks, which currently they are, they will along with those that choose to embrace their views, become dominant.

Putin has stopped the rot in Russia and is moving Russia forward, Xi and his predecessors have positioned China to become, again, one of the worlds leaders. It will become clear in the next 5 years

Let's hope they succeed peacefully, everyone knows the alternatives and the previous model, is, was, and will be unacceptable.

As for the last book I read, it was an analysis of the Japanese 20th century fiction writer, Kajii Motojiro, with English translations of most of his works. It was a pleasure to read the translations and imagine the life in Japan in that time. The analysis, in English, was heavy but the author's style was intoxicating. The book is "The Youth of Things" and it's available on Amazon. 

https://www.amazon.com/Youth-Things-.../dp/0824838408

----------


## Klondyke

Another Skripals? Mr. Putin, enough is enough...


POISON FEARS *Salisbury rocked AGAIN by potential poisoning as two people left critically ill after being ‘exposed to unknown substance’
*
A man and a woman, both in their 40s, are being treated at Salisbury Hospital after being found collapsed nine miles away in Amesbury

The man and woman, both in their 40s, are being treated at Salisbury Hospital after being were found unconscious at a property in Amesbury, Wiltshire, on Saturday evening.

Police have declared a major incident and cordoned off areas where they visited before falling ill, including parts of Salisbury - where ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal was poisoned with a nerve agent in March.

The town was only declared safe in May after being rocked by the nerve agent poisoning which left Skripal and his daughter Yulia fighting for their lives and Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey needing hospital treatment.

Police say they initially believed the pair found in Amesbury had possibly taken heroin or crack cocaine from a contaminated batch of drugs when they were called to an address in Muggleton Road.

However, they are both currently receiving treatment for suspected exposure to an unknown substance at Salisbury District Hospital.

----------


## Pragmatic

^ 
Probably used the same restaurant the Skripal's used.    :Smile:

----------


## Cujo

> Another Skripals? Mr. Putin, enough is enough...
> 
> 
> POISON FEARS *Salisbury rocked AGAIN by potential poisoning as two people left critically ill after being ‘exposed to unknown substance’
> *
> A man and a woman, both in their 40s, are being treated at Salisbury Hospital after being found collapsed nine miles away in Amesbury
> 
> The man and woman, both in their 40s, are being treated at Salisbury Hospital after being were found unconscious at a property in Amesbury, Wiltshire, on Saturday evening.
> 
> ...


Jumping the gun a bit there.

----------


## OhOh

> Probably used the same restaurant the Skripal's used.


Surely it's a government owned estate agents by now. 

They do have a number of desirable residences/commercial premises/hospital wings for sale. 

Skripal seniors, paid off and vanished MI6/ police handler of ex-UK spy's,  a shuttered cafe, 2 hectare park in central Salisbury complete with swings, sadly the benches have been destroyed and lastly the graveyard. 

Don't forget the ambulances, helicopter and the hospital wing. They all have a tainted atmosphere attached. Who would want a bed in a ward where "highly likely" traces of an unknown deadly CW linger to strike again in the future.

Were the latest victims whisked off in the same helicopter?

----------


## Pragmatic

^
Did the policeman get retired, or does he work alone on his shift?

----------


## harrybarracuda

OhOh surprised that the police in Wiltshire taking incident seriously after the last time.

Film at 11.

----------


## VocalNeal

I'm thinking it is a druid related potion?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I'm thinking it is a druid related potion?


Or perhaps it is a ley line or rune problem.

----------


## OhOh

> Or perhaps it is a ley line or rune problem.


It becomes clearer now. Too many magic mushrooms as a lad eh?

----------


## Cujo

Police confirm it was novichok novichok. Weird https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rgency-meeting

----------


## SKkin

> Police confirm it was novichok


If at first you don't succeed...try try again.

Novichok...deadliest nerve agent ever.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Pragmatic

Apparently a 'park' (coincidence?) has been sealed off in this case also. Are 'parks' the crucial links in both these cases?   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Begbie

Putin strikes again, etc....

----------


## Pragmatic

> Putin strikes again, etc....


 Or that dodgy seafood restaurant the Skripal's visited.

----------


## Begbie

Case solved. The couple bought Skripals comfort blanket from a charity shop. 

From The Guardian article.





> Hobson said he and the couple spent time in Queen Elizabeth Gardens on Friday. We were having a drink and chilling in the sun, he said.They visited a number of shops, including a Boots chemist to buy red, white and blue dye for their hair to show their support for the England football team, a mobile phone shop, and a store to buy alcohol. They bought food and visited a charity shop to buy a *blanket* to sit on.
> 
> Hobson visited Rowleys home in Muggleston Road on Saturday morning. Sturgess, who lives in Salisbury, had spent the night there. I saw lots of ambulances there and [Sturgess] got taken out on a stretcher. She needed to be helped with her breathing, Hobson said. Rowley came out in tears. They said she needed to have a brain scan.
> 
> After she was taken to hospital Hobson and Rowley went to Boots in Amesbury. Later they went to a hog roast at the local baptist church. Both the chemist and the church have been sealed off. Police have also cordoned off Raleigh Garden Green, where the hog roast took place on Saturday afternoon.
> 
> Hobson said: We went back to his place after the hog roast. We were going up to the hospital. Then he started sweating. His T-shirt was soaking wet. He got up and started rocking against the wall. His eyes were wide open and red, his pupils were like pinpricks. He began garbling incoherently and I could tell he was hallucinating. He was making weird noises and acting like a zombie. I phoned an ambulance.

----------


## Pragmatic

The obvious link to both poisoning cases is 'FOOD'. Both cases happened after eating. Case solved. Where's Harry?

----------


## birding

It should be noted that Novichok is not in itself a poison, nerve agent, but a generic name for a group of nerve agents.
So 2 people said to be poisoned by Novichok may well have been in contact with different poisons.

----------


## Pragmatic

> So 2 people said to be poisoned by Novichok may well have been in contact with different poisons.


 Some forms of food poisoning show very similar symptoms to nerve agent poisoning.   :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Mr Basu said that around 100 detectives from the Counter Terrorism Policing Network are now working on this investigation, alongside colleagues from Wiltshire Police.


The semi is the middle of next week (assuming Croatia and Sweden are seen off).

 :Smile: 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8431711.html

----------


## sabang

So Vladimir has declared war on elderly British drug addicts? Thanks.

----------


## Pragmatic

Well who'd have thought?




> *Nerve agent victim Yulia Skripal intends to 'soon' return to Russia despite Britain blaming Putin for her poisoning, according to Moscow newspaper*


 Nerve agent victim Yulia Skripal intends to 'soon' return to Russia | Daily Mail Online

----------


## OhOh

I'll call it:

The Polish groundsman, flying a Chinese drone in the park. spraying German pesticides.

----------


## Klondyke

Daily Mail not always available in Thailand

----------


## Dragonfly

> Well who'd have thought?
> 
> Nerve agent victim Yulia Skripal intends to 'soon' return to Russia | Daily Mail Online


probably better vodka

----------


## Pragmatic

> Daily Mail not always available in Thailand


 Tis if you use a proxy.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Nerve agent victim Yulia Skripal intends to 'soon' return to Russia despite Britain blaming Putin for her poisoning, according to Moscow newspaper


 Obviously she knows the truth and the Ruskies weren't involved.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Obviously she knows the truth and the Ruskies weren't involved.


Or.....




> _according to Moscow newspaper_

----------


## Pragmatic

^
I'd believe a Russian newspaper before a UK one.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^
> I'd believe a Russian newspaper before a UK one.


Of course you would.

 :rofl:

----------


## Pragmatic

Sorry this is only a quote from a very good interpretation of the Skripal's story. Please read the full link.


> A highly potent nerve agent would hurt anyone who comes in contact with it. But the BBC reported that a doctor who administered first aid to the collapsed Yulia Skripal for 30 minutes was not affected at all. Another doctor, Steven Davies who heads the emergence room of the Salisbury District Hospital, wrote in a letter the _London Times_:
> "... *no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury* and there have only been ever been three patients with significant poisoning."


 MoA - Russian Scientists Explain 'Novichok' - High Time For Britain To Come Clean (Updated)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Sorry this is only a quote from a very good interpretation of the Skripal's story. Please read the full link.        MoA - Russian Scientists Explain 'Novichok' - High Time For Britain To Come Clean (Updated)


This is a quote from a stupid whackjob website that's already been torn to pieces earlier in the thread. Try and keep up.

----------


## OhOh

> This is a quote from a stupid whackjob website


Your opinion has been noted and thrown in the bin. Thank you for taking part in the experiment. No gram of gold for you today.

V.V.P.  Moscow, Russia.

One for your bedroom ceiling:

----------


## Begbie

^^I believe that’s a quote from an ex British ambassador. Your whack job theories did not tear his analysis to pieces. 

I’m quite surprised that you’re still trying to flog a dead horse now that two other people living near Porton Down have been poisoned in the same manner as before.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^^I believe thats a quote from an ex British ambassador. Your whack job theories did not tear his analysis to pieces.


Can you not read Begbie? It says it's from a doctor at the hospital.

He wrote the letter saying no there were not other patients affected, and off went the whackjob community misquoting and misinterpreting as they usually do.

Because they write this bollocks for gullible fuckers like yourself, OhOh, etc.

He wrote to the Times to correct their story that 38 people had gone to the hospital for treatment for nerve agent poisoning.

It's unfortunate that you lot are so thick one has to keep repeating the articles in question in the vain hope that you'll actually fucking read them and not some bollocks some crackpot has amateurishly put together.




> Dozens of patients who went to hospital after the Salisbury poisoning were unaffected by the nerve agent, a doctor has revealed.
> As Theresa May visited the Wiltshire city and declared it open for business, Stephen Davies, a consultant in emergency medicine at the Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust, said that no one other than Sergei and Yulia Skripal and Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey had needed treatment.
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...ctor-vf9v0zg0m


As for the current incident, there are not enough facts around to draw a logical conclusion, but of course that won't stop the tin foil hat brigade feverishly slamming together more bollocks for the morons to find.

----------


## SKkin

> The obvious link to both poisoning cases is 'FOOD'.


Another possible obvious link...Porton Down.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Or another one... the A345.

----------


## Fluke

> Can you not read Begbie? It says it's from a doctor at the hospital.
> 
> He wrote the letter saying no there were not other patients affected, and off went the whackjob community misquoting and misinterpreting as they usually do.
> 
> Because they write this bollocks for gullible fuckers like yourself, OhOh, etc.
> 
> He wrote to the Times to correct their story that 38 people had gone to the hospital for treatment for nerve agent poisoning.
> 
> .


   And none of then were affected , they just went for a check-up

----------


## Pragmatic

> Try and keep up.


 Try and not bury your head in the sand all of the time.

----------


## Pragmatic

It seems the Russians are helping the UK in getting rid of people who pick up dog-ends and smoke them.




> We fear she's going to die. She's in a worse state than Charlie', adding she is unconscious and 'on the brink of death'. Police are guarding a taped-off bin outside Dawn's home (top right) amid claims she came into contact with Novichok from a discarded cigarette.


  :rofl:

----------


## Cujo

If she came into contact with it through a dogend then there's a body somewhere belonging to the original owner of the dogend.

----------


## Pragmatic

> If she came into contact with it through a dogend then there's a body somewhere belonging to the original owner of the dogend.


 May be the boyfriends dog-end? Hence why he was poisoned, allegedly, as well?

----------


## Begbie

Doesn’t appear that the latest two victims ate at Zizzis, KFC needs to be taped off and decontaminated.

Could it be that there’s a disgruntled employee at Porton Down smuggling out some of the poison?

----------


## OhOh

> Because they write this bollocks for gullible fuckers like yourself, OhOh, etc.


We don't need to go to any other site for bollocks. We the citizens and prolific fact checkers of the TD-IDIOT (Teak Door Information Dissemination Investigation Office Tribe) have are own GREATLY UPSIZED bollocks.

Some Chiefs at one of our previous meetings outside the NANA reservation:






> smuggling out some of the poison


No need for smuggling, the new Chinese drones, now available at specially reduced prices in the UK, have hidden apps. Any drone crossing PD security fence immediately flies south to rendezvous with a Russian submarine off Chesil Beach, Dorset. The drone then returns to PD with some "tasty" fortune cookies which it releases, outside selected Wiltshire religious meeting halls and children's play areas.

----------


## Begbie

> Or another one... the A345.


Juvenile attempt at distraction. 

There have have now been two incidents of poisoning by chemical weapons material close to a chemical weapons manufacturing facility.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Juvenile attempt at distraction.


I wouldn't have put the age as high as 'juvenile'.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It seems the Russians are helping the UK in getting rid of people who pick up dog-ends and smoke them.


This is World News.

Link mandatory, remember?

Or are you just too embarrassed to admit that you're a Daily Mail reader?

 :bananaman:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I wouldn't have put the age as high as 'juvenile'.


Of course you wouldn't.

 :rofl:

----------


## Pragmatic

> Link mandatory, remember?


Sorry moderator. Message to myself, 'Don't do it again'.   ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Sorry moderator. Message to myself, 'Don't do it again'.


I'm only tell you because your posts might get deleted. And you seem so proud of them.

 :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> I'm only tell you because your posts might get deleted. And you seem so proud of them.


 Thanks for your concern Harry. Warning taken.

----------


## Pragmatic

It just gets better.




> One current theory is that Charlie Rowley and Dawn Sturgess picked up a container, such as a phial or syringe, used to transport Novichok in the attack on the Skripals.


 Daily Mirror.

What happened to the dog-end theory?

----------


## Klondyke

IT's not nice that the Russian again do not cooperate. They did not contact the affected persons. And they refuse to tell us who has littered the dog-ends...  
(sorry, no link)

----------


## SKkin

Ok mustafa link...re: porton down

"The theorists are in overdrive."

Oh noes!

This is one of those Aussie links so it may not work.

British chemical warfare base within 10km radius of both Novichok crime scenes
https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...2fa6416823c994

----------


## SKkin

The World Socialist Website is not convinced either. This part is amusing:




> What is certain is that the UK government has every reason to put a fire  under its fast-fading and discredited Skripal provocation. Javid’s  citing of the World Cup indicates the degree to which the Tories have  been embarrassed by the tournament’s success. With all the main parties,  including Labour, and the Royal family boycotting proceedings, the  government now faces the prospect of England in the quarter finals and  possibly even playing Russia in the semi-finals, with no official  presence.


UK mounts fresh offensive against Russia following second alleged novichok poisoning - World Socialist Web Site

----------


## Pragmatic

This story just keeps on getting better. In a funny way. So they find a syringe containing white powder and took some of it cuz they thought it may be heroin. Is it April 1st? 




> One friend of the couple, who were known to be drug users, believes they may have found a syringe believing it contained heroin rather than the deadly poison used by assassins Britain claims were sent by Russia.
> 'It was definitely an accident. I think they found a package and it looked like drugs', she said.


 Amesbury Novichok victim's mother fears daughter 'will die' | Daily Mail Online

----------


## harrybarracuda

> This story just keeps on getting better. In a funny way. So they find a syringe containing white powder and took some of it cuz they thought it may be heroin. Is it April 1st?


No, it's the Daily Mail. But same thing really.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> A 44-year-old British woman died on Sunday after being exposed to the Novichok nerve agent in western England just a few miles from where Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter were struck down by the same agent four months ago.


https://www.thenational.ae/world/eur...pital-1.748316

----------


## OhOh

^Scotland Yard will be busy for another 6 months it appears.




'arry appears at 2:58, meets today's first client at 4:30 I wont spoil the ending.

----------


## Neverna

This Javid dude seems a bit thick. 


Home Secretary Sajid Javid said: “The death of Dawn Sturgess is shocking and tragic news, and I want to express my sincere condolences to her family and friends. This has now become a murder investigation, and police and security officials are working around the clock to establish the full facts. “This desperately sad news only strengthens our resolve to find out exactly what has happened."

https://www.thenational.ae/world/eur...pital-1.748316

----------


## harrybarracuda

She's dead Jim.

----------


## SKkin

From Harry's link:




> Tests by Porton Down chemical weapons research centre showed they had been exposed to novichok.


Was it also tested to see if it matched what was in-house?


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ce-of-novichok




> He denied Russian claims that the substance could have come from Porton  Down, which is eight miles from Salisbury, saying: Theres no way that  anything like that would ever have come from us or leave the four walls  of our facilities.


No way at all... Just like there was no way that US military anthrax was used in the US right after 9/11. Right.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> From Harry's link:
> 
> 
> 
> Was it also tested to see if it matched what was in-house?
> 
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ce-of-novichok
> 
> ...


So you think this is a rogue Porton Down scientist? Who just happened to find a senior Russian defector?

----------


## SKkin

> So you think this is a rogue Porton Down scientist?


Doubt it would be one of the scientists. More like someone high in the food chain who has a vested interest in blaming Russia. A scientist was proclaimed to be the suspect in the US anthrax case too. Falsely as it turned out...

The story has been fishier than a chippy's fish wrap from the beginning.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Doubt it would be one of the scientists. More like someone high in the food chain who has a vested interest in blaming Russia. A scientist was proclaimed to be the suspect in the US anthrax case too. Falsely as it turned out...


The one that topped himself?

----------


## SKkin

> The one that topped himself?


No, I meant Hatfill. I doubt that it was Ivins either, he's the one who topped himself.  Hatfill was picked as the patsy(by your favorite G-Man Mueller) only after the "It was Al Qaeda!" accusations fell flat...  Because it came out that the anthrax used was US military grade.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> No, I meant Hatfill. I doubt that it was Ivins either, he's the one who topped himself.  Hatfill was picked as the patsy(by your favorite G-Man Mueller) only after the "It was Al Qaeda!" accusations fell flat...  Because it came out that the anthrax used was US military grade.


Ivins was the one they eventually pinned it on. All sorts of weird shit came out about him.

----------


## OhOh

> All sorts of weird shit came out about him.


All "highly likely" sorts from government officials as well, must be true. Can't you perceive a common thread here?

----------


## misskit

An odd tidbit from Meduza. Video interview at link in Russian.



*Sergey Skripal's niece in Russia denies making some big admissions in an interview with the BBC that she says never happened*

Strange things are afoot with Victoria Skripal, the niece of Sergey Skripal, the former double agent poisoned and nearly killed in England earlier this year. On July 10, the BBC’s Russian-language service published an interview with Victoria, where she produced a copy of an exclusive contract with the Russian state television network Pervyi Kanal. 


Victoria told the BBC that she’d been hired to work as an economist for the production company “Direkt,” with a monthly salary of 115,000 rubles ($1,840), without doing any actual work, except for appearing on Pervyi Kanal’s talk shows. The BBC captured all these admissions on tape. A source close to Skripal also told the BBC that she also received a one-time payment of 1 million rubles ($16,000).


Hours after the interview was published, however, Skripal told the magazine RBC that she never spoke to any journalists from the BBC. She says she works for Direkt, but insists that she actually performs the economist duties laid out in her contract, pointing out that she listed her monthly salary on her application for a British visa. Officials in the UK have already denied Skripal a visa twice: first for being unemployed, and then for earning too little income. She reportedly plans to file a third application.



In early July, the political party “Just Russia” nominated Victoria Skripal for a seat in the Yaroslavl regional parliament, which will hold elections on September 9.




https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/07/10...never-happened

----------


## OhOh

> BBC’s Russian-language service


Your evidence for this is a Russian language video and Russian language report produced by BBC Russia?

Let's wait for the BBC in London publishing anything in English prior to commenting blind.

----------


## Klondyke

> An odd tidbit from Meduza. Video interview at link in Russian.


What a sensational discovery...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> All "highly likely" sorts from government officials as well, must be true. Can't you perceive a common thread here?


No, recordings off him talking candidly to the two female colleagues that he was a bit obssessed with after they twigged that he was trying to throw them off the scent.

As far as I know the case is closed except for a few murmurings from the tin foil hat brigade.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Your evidence for this is a Russian language video and Russian language report produced by BBC Russia?
> 
> Let's wait for the BBC in London publishing anything in English prior to commenting blind.


It's obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that she's being getting paid by Putin from the get go to try and debunk the daughters story or try and persuade her to shut up.

Of course, not to you, you're obsessed with Putin to the point of a gay crush.

----------


## Pragmatic

It seems that two, down and out, fagbutt smoking winoes, can find a bottle of Novichok easily. Whereas 100s of anti-terrorists police couldn't. Amazing.





> *LONDON (Reuters) -* *British counter-terrorism police said on Friday they believed they had found the source of the Novichok nerve agent that killed a woman in southwest England and left her partner critically ill in hospital.*
> 
> Dawn Sturgess, 44, died this month, just over a week after she was exposed to Novichok near the city of Salisbury where Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were struck down with the same poison in March.
> 
> Sturgess' partner, 45-year-old Charlie Rowley from Amesbury, a town a few miles from Salisbury, is now recovering in hospital.
> 
> "On Wednesday ... a small bottle was recovered during searches of Charlie Rowley's house in Amesbury," police said in a statement.
> "Scientists have now confirmed to us that the substance contained within the bottle is Novichok."
> 
> ...


  Reuters

----------


## OhOh

^ It wouldn't take long in Thailand. Here we have a few "collectors". They walk the highways and byways because everything has value and recycled.



A wino can smell alcohol ate 2 Km. here's what they found:

----------


## taxexile

So thats 1 less benefit scounging degenerate addict pissing in the bushes and wasting resources in a and e.

we should be thanking the russians.

----------


## Cujo

Makes me wonder how the container found its way into their house.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Makes me wonder how the container found its way into their house.


Probably in the bag they put their stuff in?

----------


## Pragmatic

> Makes me wonder how the container found its way into their house.


 Probably they went through the bins at Porton Down. Just joking. The Russians planted it in the house.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## taxexile

The stupid smack addled bint must of thought she'd won the lottery when she found a bottle full of "perfume".

Lucky she found it and it wasnt left for  some inquisitive toddler to pick up.

----------


## Begbie

Teakdoor’s Inspector (Tax) Clouseau closes the case.

Alternatively Charley Rowley is the hitman who attempted to murder Skypal. He forgot to throw away the tools.

----------


## Pragmatic

Something stinks about this story and it ain't the two wino's.   :Smile:

----------


## birding

I see we have a new headline today from the Daily mail :




> Russian assassin who carried perfume bottle 'was a WOMAN who took key role in six-strong poison hit team'


But farther down it states ;




> The perfume bottle lead supports the theory that a woman was involved in the initial hit by up to six people against Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury on March 4.
> 
> An intelligence source told the Daily Mirror: 'It makes sense that a female officer may have been part of the team, playing a key role.'


Thats not quite the same is it.

So they are still making wild guesses that the 'free media' are headlining as fact.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I see we have a new headline today from the Daily mail :
> 
> 
> 
> But farther down it states ;
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not quite the same is it.
> ...



FFS it's the Daily Mail. "Intelligence" is not a word you'd associate with any of their "sources", their "journalists" and definitely not their fucking "readers".

 :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> FFS it's the Daily Mail. "Intelligence" is not a word you'd associate with any of their "sources", their "journalists" and definitely not their fucking "readers".


 Ad hominem.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Ad hominem.


_Tacere_

----------


## Chico

Just being reported Russians are behind all the sex grooming gangs in UK. :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> Just being reported Russians are behind all the sex grooming gangs in UK.


 Was that reported in the Daily Mail or Viz? It's important to know the source as this is 'World News' and links are required.     :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

^it appears that ITN have a "scoop". :Smile: 

*Skripal Novichok poisoning suspects ‘identified’*


   Police are believed [ :Smile: ] to have identified the suspected perpetrators of the Novichok attack on Russian former spy Sergei Skripal.

Officers think [ :Smile: ] several Russians [All sporting large red star lapel badges] were involved in the attempted murder  of the former double agent and daughter Yulia in Salisbury and are  looking for more than one suspect.

A source []with knowledge of the investigation told the Press  Association: “Investigators believe they have identified the suspected  perpetrators of the Novichok attack through CCTV [  ] and have cross-checked  this with records of people who entered the country around that time. [ At least they weren't sleepers ]


They (the investigators) are sure [  :Smile:  ] they (the suspects) are Russian.” 

The news comes [  ]  as an inquest is due to open on Thursday for Dawn  Sturgess, 44, who died earlier this month, eight days after apparently  coming into contact with Novichok from the same batch used [  ] in the  attempted murder of the Skripals in March.

Her partner Charlie Rowley, 45, was left fighting for his life after also being contaminated by the chemical weapon.
  It is understood Ms Sturgess was exposed to at least 10 times the amount of nerve agent the Skripals came into contact with.

  Investigators are working to the theory that the substance was in a  discarded perfume bottle found by the couple in a park or somewhere in  Salisbury city centre and Ms Sturgess sprayed Novichok straight on to  her skin, the source said.

*The Metropolitan Police, who are leading the investigation, declined to comment*.
 :smiley laughing: 

  The inquest will be opened by the Wiltshire and Swindon coroner in  Salisbury and the hearing is expected to be adjourned to allow police  inquiries to continue.

  On Wednesday, a fingertip search of Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury was carried out. 

   The park and other locations in Salisbury and nearby Amesbury were  cordoned off last month after the exposure of the couple to the nerve  agent.

  Searches of properties could last months after 400 items were  recovered, officers warned, while waste and litter will be removed as  part of the sweep of public areas. 

  Last week counter-terrorism detectives revealed they had found a  small bottle containing Novichok at Mr Rowley’s home in Muggleton Road,  Amesbury. 

  They are trying to establish where the container came from, and how it came to be in his house. 

  A team of international experts from the Organisation for the  Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) was called in to independently  verify this. 

  They have finished collecting samples which will now be analysed at  two OPCW labs before the results are reported back to the UK.

  Public Health England said the risk to the public remains low but it  continued to “strongly advise” not to pick up any unknown “strange  items” such as syringes, needles, cosmetics or similar objects made of  materials such as metal, plastic or glass.

                                                           Last updated Thu 19 Jul 2018                   

'Russian suspects identified' from CCTV in Skripal poison attack - ITV News

Concerned, or not, by loose accusations of Russian people from the "mostly harmless" planet Earth? 

Let us await the comprehensive  :Smile: , OPCW and OPCW chain of control statement, prior to accepting this "opinion" as factual .

----------


## Neverna

^ Translated means thay have CCTV footage of people who were in Salisbury and later flew out of Britain, but as yet they have no names of those people.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Searches of properties could last months after 400 items were recovered


Most were empty 6% cider bottles and half an ounce of Old Holborn and a packet of papers.

----------


## OhOh

> thay have CCTV footage of people who were in Salisbury and later flew out of Britain


Presuming the CCTV can be identified as from Salisbury, airports CCTV were turned on at the time and some of the 10,000,000 people leaving UK in a month or so, whose images were stored, have red star lapel badges.

_"Tourists made 16.41 million trips to the UK between January and June, an 8% rise on the same period in 2013."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28787769

_So 16 million visits, x 2 for entry and exit "images"  / 6 = 5+ million images with CCTV recognition rates at 4 -8 %

_"For an extreme example of what can go wrong, take data recently released by an EU Freedom of Information request and then posted  by the South Wales police. It shows that at the Champions League final  game in Cardiff last year, South Wales police logged 173 true face  matches and wrongly identified a whopping 2,297 people as suspicious—a  92 percent false positive rate."

https://www.wired.com/story/facial-r...-works-or-not/_

----------


## OhOh

> Most were empty 6% cider bottles and half an ounce of Old Holborn and a packet of papers.


Until they dredge the river, their search efforts are meaningless. Downriver at least 10 km or so.

 A new project for the Thai divers yes? 

What else will they, do molest children, as alleged by an ameristani billionaire?

----------


## cyrille

> What else will they, do molest children, as alleged by an ameristani billionaire?


Are you ever going to realise that you simply cannot communicate in English at this level?

What on earth are you babbling on about now?

----------


## Pragmatic

If I recall correctly, on the day the Skripal's took ill wasn't there a CCTV picture of a man and woman published as being the people connected to the attacked on the Skripal's ? Did they identify them?

----------


## OhOh

> What on earth are you babbling on about now?


Slight editing  and additions, just for you. I suspect not enough, although your post could use some commas. :Smile: 

Until they search the river, the search is meaningless. Both sites, of Salisbury 1 - The Discovery and Salisbury 2 - The Spreading Plague, are connected by the river. A km or so a month of the Perfume Bottle drifting down....... 

Any increase in local waterfowl deaths, or has that been covered up by Lizz's annual Swan Upping?

Send a call out to the Thai divers. The Seals are just basking, the white ex-pats back to their molestation of Thai juveniles, as alleged by, a soon to be dollar-less, ameristani immigrant and ex company  director.

----------


## Pragmatic

> I don't see anyone getting tough with the 'Blue Suede Shoes'.


As I pointed out in post #112  the 'Blue Suede Shoes' are experts at assassinations. 




> *The 3 Main Suspects behind the Skripal Attempt – and Russia Is not among Them*According to former British diplomat and historian Craig Murray,  for instance, *it is more reasonable to cast the net of suspicion onto Israel* for many of the same reasons cited by the British government:
> “*Israel has the nerve agents*. *Israel has Mossad which is extremely skilled at foreign assassinations.* Theresa May claimed Russian propensity to assassinate abroad as a specific reason to believe Russia did it*. Well Mossad has an even greater propensity to assassinate abroad.* And while I am struggling to see a Russian motive for damaging its own international reputation so grieviously,* Israel has a clear motivation for damaging the Russian reputation* so grieviously. Russian action in Syria has undermined the Israeli position in Syria and Lebanon in a fundamental way, and Israel has every motive for damaging Russia’s international position by an attack aiming to leave the blame on Russia.”


 https://new.euro-med.dk/20180318-the...among-them.php

----------


## OhOh

*UK Security Minister Dismisses Report on Skripal Poisoners as 'Wild Speculation'*


_"Media reports  appeared earlier in the day, saying that UK investigators claimed that  they had identified the perpetrators behind the A234 nerve agent attack  on the Skripals.
_

_Commenting  on the reports that police have identified Russians behind the Skripal  poisoning, UK Security Minister Ben Wallace dubbed them as  "ill-informed, wild speculation.

_
_"I think this story belongs in the 'ill-informed and wild speculation folder," Ben Wallace said on Twitter.

_
_According to the Russian Foreign Ministry, if the UK classifies the  Salisbury and Amesbury cases, Moscow will interpret it as an attempt  to hide the masterminds and perpetrators of these crimes._



https://sputniknews.com/europe/20180...accuse-russia/

----------


## harrybarracuda

Poor old Vlad is dying to know what the intelligence services know.

----------


## OhOh

THE LORD, has his finger in many pies. Each pie, savoury or sweet can be tasted, put back to mature or gobbled up in an instant.

----------


## Klondyke

Now, also the other media have taken over from SputnikNews. (or vice versa?)
Anyway, still "highly likely"... 
*

Britain dismisses news report on Skripal poisoners as 'wild speculation'*

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain’s security minister on Thursday dismissed a report that police have identified several Russians who were behind the poisoning of former Russian double-agent Sergei Skripal as “wild speculation”.

“I think this story belongs in the ‘ill informed and wild speculation folder’” Ben Wallace said on Twitter, in response to the Press Association report.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1K91V0

----------


## SKkin

> As I pointed out in post #112  the 'Blue Suede Shoes' are experts at assassinations. 
> 
> https://new.euro-med.dk/20180318-the...among-them.php




Isn't that anti-semantic ...or something like that.  :Smile: 

I can think of some other news stories where the word Russians could be replaced with "blue suede shoes"

----------


## Latindancer

> THE LORD, has his finger in many pies.



Isn't that a bit unhygenic ? He might need to upgrade his waitering skills...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Isn't that anti-semantic ...or something like that. 
> 
> I can think of some other news stories where the word Russians could be replaced with "blue suede shoes"


Ooooh you haven't been jewdy-ised....

----------


## SKkin

How long is 98% of the world going to be held hostage by the brazen bullshit of the "chosen" 2%(or a portion thereof)?

----------


## Pragmatic

So 2 people are walking down a street and they come across a spray bottle. First reaction by one is to spray her wrists to see if its a perfume. The second person then breaks the bottle in his hands but doesn't know how. Is someone tekkin the piss?




> Mr Rowley said his brother's recollection of what happened was "very vague", but added: "He definitely said to me that they found this bottle of something and Dawn sprayed it on her wrists and that he picked it up and broke it somehow - and that's how he got it on his hands."


  Sky news.

----------


## birding

> So 2 people are walking down a street and they come across a spray bottle. First reaction by one is to spray her wrists to see if its a perfume. The second person then breaks the bottle in his hands but doesn't know how. Is someone tekkin the piss?
> 
>   Sky news.


So he then took the broken bottle home for the investigators to find, they did say they found it in the house didnt they and was there ever anything said about it being broken?

----------


## Neverna

Perhaps he collects broken bottles.




 :Sorry1:

----------


## OhOh

A Dior lady:

----------


## Pragmatic

One woman can vouch for Novichok.

----------


## Klondyke

> So 2 people are walking down a street and they come across a spray bottle.


They are not so ordinary people. First, it was reported they are homeless, or did I got it wrong? Or just she was? Living in a hostel for homeless, mother of 11ye daughter?  
Drug addicts? Picking things on a street. However, he's got a house. And not so of a poor value.  Strange, isn't it?

Surely, now he will change his life...  (Perhaps they will tear down the house)

----------


## Klondyke

^Ms. May, tear down the house...

----------


## OhOh

‘O  what  a  tangled  web  we  weave,  When  first  we  practise  to  deceive!’

Sir Walter Scott.Marmion; A Tale of Flodden Field (published in 1808)

*US to impose new sanctions on Russia over Skripal poisoning*_
"The US is imposing new sanctions on Russia over the poisoning of  double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the UK. The measures  are scheduled to go into effect on or around August 22, according to the  State Department.      
__"The United  States...determined under the Chemical and Biological Weapons Control  and Warfare Elimination Act of 1991 (CBW Act) that the government of the  Russian Federation has used chemical or biological weapons in violation  of international law, or has used lethal chemical or biological weapons  against its own nationals," State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert  said in a statement on Wednesday.

_
_The accusation comes despite there being zero evidence suggesting Moscow was behind the attack._
_A State Department official told reporters in a conference call on Wednesday that Washington informed Russia "this afternoon" about the sanctions. The US still wants to maintain relations with Moscow, despite the new sanctions. "We  are tough on Russia, at the same time we are quite committed to working  to maintain relations because there are important things at stake  here," the official said, as quoted by Sputnik.
_
_London was predictably delighted and rushed to welcome Washington’s announcement of new punitive actions against Moscow. “The UK welcomes this further action by our US allies,” a spokesman for the UK Foreign Office said in a statement. “The  strong international response to the use of a chemical weapon on the  streets of Salisbury sends an unequivocal message to Russia that its  provocative, reckless behavior will not go unchallenged.”_
_The  first tranche of US sanctions would reportedly ban licenses for the  export of sensitive national security goods to Russia. In the past, such  exports are said to have included items like electronic devices and  components, as well as test and calibration equipment for avionics.  These kinds of exports have previously been allowed on a case-by-case  basis._
_The reporters were told that the second round of sanctions will reportedly kick in three months later, unless Russia provides "reliable assurances" that it won't use chemical weapons in the future and agrees to "on-site inspections" by the UN.
_
_It  would reportedly include more drastic measures, such as downgrading  diplomatic relations, banning the Russian airline Aeroflot from flying  to the US and cutting off nearly all exports and imports.
_
_Western  countries have been quick to place blame on Moscow over the poisoning,  disregarding the absence of proof that would implicate the Kremlin in  the crime. Russia has denied having any part in the attack and has  offered its full cooperation in the investigation."

https://www.rt.com/usa/435468-us-new...tions-skripal/
_

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _disregarding the absence of proof
> _


Who says there is no proof?

Ah yes, the Russians.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Dragonfly

> Who says there is no proof?
> 
> Ah yes, the Russians.


of course Harry, because we all know you saw "the forensic evidence" yourself  :rofl: 

what a poseur and a fraud you make, your line of thinking must work very well with your bling bling arab masters  :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

> Who says there is no proof?


It's likely highly... (that's not enough?)

----------


## Pragmatic

> Who says there is no proof?


 TD CSI special ops team.    :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> TD CSI special ops team.


Well they would know eh.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> Well they would know eh.


As much as anyone outside of the bought and paid for politicians who continue to claim but cannot provide any evidence of who was responsible. 

Without showing their fingerprints all over it.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> As much as anyone outside of the bought and paid for politicians who continue to claim but cannot provide any evidence of who was responsible. 
> 
> Without showing their fingerprints all over it.


They've signed the Official Secrets Act. So they can't.

----------


## Hugh Cow

Read this article on the Skripals thought it was quite interesting. Apolgies if someone else has posted it and I missed it.

https://www.gq.com/story/russia-spy-poisoning

----------


## sabang

Excellent article. Assumptions that this was a hit directly ordered by Vlad are extraordinarily naïve- he wasn't a high value, or high profile target. Looks instead like Skripal's extra-curricular consulting activities upset the wrong network.

----------


## OhOh

Mr. Skripal's "assistance" to a MI6 officers report delivered to a certain losing ameristani political clique certainly didn't help his life choices.

----------


## Pragmatic

> he wasn't a high value, or high profile target.


 It was mentioned in reports soon after the incident that the daughter was really the intended target. I can't figure out why that is the case. Time for a bit more Google-ing.

----------


## Klondyke

> Read this article on the Skripals thought it was quite interesting.


Easy reading when bored laying on the beach or waiting on a cońnecting flight. 

Nothing new but rather biased to the "highly likely" without ridiculing the following measures and sanctions against Russia beating anything similar at the highest points of Cold War.  An explanation for us ordinary people how the GRU handle former spies - in contrast to other spy agencies' kind handling. 

At all such highly publicized - and never really solved deaths that always fulfill certain purpose - "cui bono" - (e.g. Kennedys, MLK, Malcom X, Diana, WTC, you name it) there are always few things that are generously omitted and not further followed, however, perhaps holding the real secret. In this case e.g. the pets at home, another dead Russian spy Glushkov clearly assassinated ("the cause of death given as compression to the neck") - why no big noise about him? 

Why no contact allowed to the Russians (or anybody else, not even to the relatives? The phone call with the cousin says something different than the written declaration of Julia in the beautiful garden... 

Another case how much more stupid stories the "international community" can swallow...

----------


## Hugh Cow

WHy would it ridicule Russian sanctions? That was not the topic. You really do struggle with anything that deviates from your pro Russian opinion. I thought it was a well balanced article. It gives fairly valid assumptions that it could have been outside of the Russian Govt. 
The article does mention the British govt did not do enough over the murder of Litvenyenko and sanctions may have been catch up from that incident where the govt reaction was fairly meagre. Your opinion that this is another stupid story that the west has swallowed, despite the untimely death of many ex russian spys in England. 
Please enlighten us with what the "real" story is backed up with verifiable facts. Otherwise dont make ridiculous claims because it doesn't fit your narrative. As to the phone call, is it normal for the cousin to record her phone calls? Do people normally give their full name to their own cousin? The phone call did not say anything other than her cousin was unlikely to get a visa. Julia (if it really is her on the phone) seems to be guarded as one would expect. She no doubt would have been warned that the govt would record the phone conversation. Not wishing to alienate her native country but not willing to take the risk. That also bares out in her interview. This would be natural for someone who does not want to believe it was done by her own govt but unsure who the perpetrators really are.

----------


## Klondyke

^Whatever you find ridiculous, not really the sanctions (firing back to ordinary people at any side), all the humbug around. 

Need to bring up Litvinenko? Also highly likely? 

And what about the subsea cable cuts? As I said:




> Another case how much more stupid stories the "international community" can swallow...


Are you the one "well swallowing"?

----------


## OhOh

Look, it was an " insignificant somebodies" opinion. Not worth the bandwidth.

What's more important is the silence from the MET, are they awaiting May's dismissal? How many 1,000's of man-hours have they spent, at what cost and as of today, absolutely nothing.

Political interference in a western "democratic", follower of international laws, country. Surely the bubble will burst, but by the time it does nobody will care or be stood before an AA gun, a la DPRK. :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> It was mentioned in reports soon after the incident that the daughter was really the intended target. I can't figure out why that is the case. Time for a bit more Google-ing.


 Hows about this?





> Former spy Sergei Skripals daughter was the real target of the nerve agent attack that left them both in critical condition, his niece claims in a report.Victoria Skripal claims 33-year-old Yulia Skripal got into a fight with her boyfriends mother after announcing that they planned to get married and start a family, The Sun reported.
> The unidentified mom was allegedly furious that her son was about to marry into the family of Sergei Skripal  whom she considered a traitor for spying on the Russian government.
> My opinion is that it was done not against Uncle Sergei, but against his daughter, claimed Victoria Skripal, 45.
> The mother didnt accept Yulia and thought that if she was a traitors daughter, then she herself would betray her country, she added.
> Skripal, 66, had been convicted for betraying Russian agents to Britain and was sentenced to 13 years in prison. But he was released in a 2010 swap between the US and Russia and has been living in the UK since.
> He was found with his daughter, slumped over on a bench in Salisbury March 4.
> 
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Pragmatic

> senior intelligence officials told the Telegraph UK they believed the lethal nerve agent Novichok — which was first developed by the Soviet military — was placed in her suitcase before she left, in an attempt to target her double-agent dad.


 Now could that be in a perfume bottle that two down and outs found and spayed on each other resulting in a womans death?

----------


## Klondyke

^At the end of the day, who really cares about such people? (Just the May and her clown?)

----------


## Pragmatic

> who really cares about such people?


 It's about being told the truth. Nothing more nothing less.

----------


## Neverna

^^^ Indeed. It was just their speculation at that time, trying to get a narrative out that suited there desire to lay the blame at Russia's door. 

^^^^ The future mother-in-law did it seems a really bizarre suggestion. Where on earth would she get hold of it and how would she deliver it? Or did she hire someone else to do it? And what made her think of using Novichock to attempt murder?

----------


## Pragmatic

> The future mother-in-law did it seems a really bizarre suggestion. Where on earth would she get hold of it and how would she deliver it? Or did she hire someone else to do it? And what made her think of using Novichock to attempt murder?


 Why have the Future MiL and boyfriend now disappeared?




> Skripal’s fiance has gone into hiding amid claims he works for an organisation with links to Vladimir Putin’s feared intelligence service. Stepan Vikeev and his mother Tatiana Vikeeva have vanished since the attempted murder of double agent Yulia Sergei Skripal and his 33-year-old daughter in Salisbury, according to The Mail on Sunday.
> Moscow security services have claimed that Stepan, 30, worked for a secretive company called the Institute of Modern Security Problems, run by his mother, 61. The organisation is said to be an ‘integral part’ of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB). The newspaper added that sources told them Stepan and Tatiana are being protected by Putin’s agents, which have sparked fears that they may have been involved in the nerve agent attack on March 4.

----------


## Neverna

Perhaps there never ever was a future mother-in-law. Perhaps the MIL was just fake news. It's easier for her to "disappear" if she never actually existed.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Perhaps there never ever was a future mother-in-law.


 Maybe there was never boyfriend, as such? It is claimed he was a plant to keep an eye on Skripal's daughter.

----------


## Neverna

The plot thickens.

----------


## Klondyke

> The plot thickens.


unless another "highly likely" will appear...

----------


## OhOh

Confirmation of some chemical weapons availability and Russian proposals to add some to the OPCW database.

*West made a hundred Novichok type agents over years, says Russian Foreign Ministry
*

Russian Politics & Diplomacy 
August 22, 16:50 UTC+3 



*The Foreign Ministry pointed out it is rather hard to name the country where the type of agent identified in Salisbury had come from*

© AP Photo/Matt Dunham 
MOSCOW, August 22. /TASS/. The Western countries are known to have made at least a hundred chemical agents similar to the Novichok nerve gas since the mid-1990s, as follows from a report published on the Russian Foreign Ministrys website.

The Foreign Ministry recalled that on January 13, 1993 Moscow was one of the first to have put its signature to the Chemical Weapons Convention and promptly began its implementation.
"The elimination of Russias chemical weapons was carried out under the strictest international control. This laborious process was completed on September 27, 2017," the Foreign Ministry said. "On October 11, 2017 the director-general of the OPCWs Secretariat certified the final elimination of chemical weapons in Russia."

"As far as the compound that has been dubbed Novichok in the Western countries is concerned, its structure was for the first time presented in 1998 in the data base of the American National Standards Institute. The whole family of toxic chemicals that eventually emerged on its basis does not fall under the CWC operation," the Russian Foreign Ministry said. "Some twenty Western countries have conducted research into the substances of the Novichok family since the mid-1990s. They studied means of obtaining them and their harmful effects. Foreign scientific publications contain formulas of no less than a hundred compounds that have a bearing on Novichok agents to this or that extent. The United States alone has issued more than 140 patents somehow related to the protection from and the use of warfare agents of the Novichok family."

The Foreign Ministry pointed out it is rather hard to name the country where the type of agent identified in Salisbury had come from, bearing in mind the fact the methods of obtaining Novichok family compounds were widely spread in the West.

"In May 2018, Russia dispatched to the OPCW Secretariat its proposals for complementing the lists of chemical agents under control with about a thousand new compounds," the Foreign Ministry said. "We are certain that such a step would help promote non-proliferation and elimination of chemical weapons.

More:
TASS: Russian Politics & Diplomacy - West made a hundred Novichok type agents over years, says Russian Foreign Ministry


The silence from the MET is becoming deafening.

----------


## Pragmatic

So 2 known Russian military intelligence officers flew from Moscow to Gatwick. They weren't picked up by UK secret services and they carried with them a bottle of fake perfume filled with Novichok.  This story gets better and better.





How Salisbury 'assassins' used fake perfume bottle of toxic Novichok | Daily Mail Online

----------


## Klondyke

^The link does not say what's very important (what at the press conference today was said): The traces of the Novitchok have been found in the hotel room (after 5 months) where the two guys had stayed.

Interesting is that all the room maids have quitted the job since (always each after one week serve) to become a model... (unbelievably suddenly becoming a beauty queen)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Confirmation of some chemical weapons availability and Russian proposals to add some to the OPCW database.
> 
> *West made a hundred Novichok type agents over years, says Russian Foreign Ministry
> *
> 
> Russian Politics & Diplomacy 
> August 22, 16:50 UTC+3 
> 
> 
> ...


A Russian state controlled website does a story on a report on another Russian state controlled website, and you think it should be taken seriously.

You toadying sycophant you.

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So 2 known Russian military intelligence officers flew from Moscow to Gatwick. They weren't picked up by UK secret services


Because it doesn't say they were "known" at the time they were in the UK, does it?

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ^it appears that ITN have a "scoop".
> 
> *Skripal Novichok poisoning suspects identified*
> 
> 
>    Police are believed [] to have identified the suspected perpetrators of the Novichok attack on Russian former spy Sergei Skripal.
> 
> Officers think [] several Russians [All sporting large red star lapel badges] were involved in the attempted murder  of the former double agent and daughter Yulia in Salisbury and are  looking for more than one suspect.
> 
> ...



It appears that you are dumber than a NAZI.
Obstinate until the end.

----------


## Pragmatic

So these supposed Russian military officers can just walk up to a front door and spray it with Novichok without wearing any protective clothing, and masks, that would draw attention? Yeah right. I'd expect they'd have had to wear similar attire as those that supposedly cleared it up?

----------


## lom

> So these supposed Russian military officers can just walk up to a front door and spray it with Novichok without wearing any protective clothing, and masks, that would draw attention? Yeah right. I'd expect they'd have had to wear similar attire as those that supposedly cleared it up?



Yeah, it is highly likely that they wore the same protecting outfit.  :Smile:

----------


## cyrille

Just like murderers always kill people in tents.

Jeez Prag...that the best you got?  :Very Happy:

----------


## Klondyke

All this has only one purpose: 
How much BS the population can swallow...

----------


## cyrille

...but enough of your posting history.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Jeez Prag...that the best you got?


 Just waiting for Harry's input.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Just waiting for Harry's input.


Input to what?

The report speaks for itself.

I'll leave you whackjobs to your furious, idiotic speculation.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Input to what?
> 
> The report speaks for itself.
> 
> I'll leave you whackjobs to your furious, idiotic speculation.


I think they are still trying to swallow the moon landing.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Dragonfly

> Input to what?
> 
> The report speaks for itself.
> 
> I'll leave you whackjobs to your furious, idiotic speculation.


and the report is true ? and how would you know this ?

----------


## OhOh

If I understand correctly the MET have produced a dossier and passed it onto the CPS who have determined there is a case that warrants prosecution. They have gone public with a statement and Maggie May has told the world "It was the Russians" and "We was right".

Normally, in a UK court case (for non UK readers), the prosecution proves it's case by offering evidence, proving the accused's guilt in front of a judge and jury. The accused are represented by a legal team who try to blow as many holes as they can in the prosecution's evidence. The judge sums up, primarily on any legal issues he alone determines, and the 12 Jury members retire to a private room to consider the case and agree a verdict, guilty or innocent. Once the Jury have decided they inform the court and return to the court room. Their verdict is handed to the Judge who then decides on any sentence, if guilty, or the accused are set free. 

However in this instance, because the accused are allegedly Russian citizens and Russia does not extradite it's citizens, I am presuming no public trial before the Judge and Jury will take place.

If my assumption is correct, no trial, the accusation stands, the evidence remains secret and Russian citizens, plus Russian secret service and Russia as a country are named a shamed.

Seems like a win/win for the UK government. Justice however fails appallingly.

The only fly in the ointment is I believe that the UK have asked for an international arrest warrant to be issued. If these two named accused Russians citizens travel on the same passports to a country that observes the arrest warrant and are held and sent to the UK. This would enable the CPS to start the court case and all the evidence, secret or not, would be revealed as ..



As Maggie May has already told the world the accused are Russian Secret Service agents, I suspect new passports have already been granted by the Russian Secret Service. Along with a discreet Red Star medal from The LORD for a job well done. The two assassins are free to retire to a tropical paradise full of sandy beaches and temples. To live off their exciting bar room tales forever. discussing the qualities of:



Hopefully their neighbours will not be named *Sergei and Yulia.*

----------


## OhOh

> and how would you know this ?


You should know by now 'arrys a "nod and a wink" special agent with "For Eyes Only" clearance.

----------


## Dragonfly

Maybot is making bold claims with no clue or evidence of her allegations,

she tried the same tricks on Brussels for Brexit and it failed miserably  :Smile: 

she is a complete failure, so typically British

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You should know by now 'arrys a "nod and a wink" special agent with "For Eyes Only" clearance.


He should know I've had the dopey [at][at][at][at] on ignore for months and don't read any of his shit any more unless someone quotes it, which usually is to tell him he's a dopey [at][at][at][at], which everyone knows already.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> However in this instance, because the accused are allegedly Russian citizens and Russia does not extradite it's murderous scum, I am presuming no public trial before the Judge and Jury will take place.


FTFY.

----------


## OhOh

> FTFY.


One countries murderous scum is another's heroes. :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

And the evidence is so compelling, the 2 murderous guys had been synchronized (perhaps still they are), the snapshots from the airport bear the same time stamp...

----------


## OhOh

> the 2 murderous guys had been synchronized  (perhaps still they are), the snapshots from the airport bear the same  time stamp...


There are 4+ adjacent, identical, "alleyways", through which passengers from one area of the airport to another are forced to travel and it seems videoed. 

As such, if the two "Russians" entered side by side "alleyways", at the same time and walked at the same pace, they could be videoed at the same time. Although being in adjacent "alleyways".

Or the MET thought it a good yarn to stop the videos at the same time.

There are photos illustrating this on websites.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.161154,-0.1773495,2a,75y,195.93h,71.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1skrDKt_hDawNNL1vh1ILPPw!2e0!3e2  !7i13312!8i6656

The above link is taken from the arrivals exit, where people watch for their friends and await their enemies. The video cameras are presumably inside the alleyways. At the link you can actually walk through the alleyway.

Another link with more photos of the "alleyways".

https://twitter.com/bleidl/status/1037540166020280320

----------


## Klondyke

It's just aired live from SC UN.

Unbelievable, comparison with what everything is happening in the world. 

What about is going in the heads of those people who are suffering in the war countries when they hear the problem from Salisbury?

----------


## OhOh

Who to believe? 

The MET police video screen copy, the UNSC live TV broadcast or google maps video evidence.

Cujo, 'arry or MK will come out with definition of the "correct" source and put our simple minds to rest.

Judgement by 3pm Thai time please. 

Otherwise we go with the DPRK ace hackers judgement. 

Allegedly, "_North Korea's notorious cyber villain, hacking wizard and undisputed evil genius"_.

_"“Working for a foreign government does not immunise criminal  conduct,” said John Demers, assistant attorney-general for the DoJ’s  national security division. In noting previous cyberhacking charges  against Chinese, Russian and Iranian nationals going back to 2014,  Demers said that  "today we add the North Korean regime to our list,” he  said, which made “four out of four of our principal adversaries in  cyber space."  "These activities run afoul of acceptable norms of behaviour in cyber space and space and the international community must address them," he added."_

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...malware-attack



How would western "Internationally Excepted rules"; aiding throat slitting terrorists, illegal invasions and military, financial and threats of attacks on foreign countries and citizens work, if this ever occurred? 

Put all their leaders in front of an Asian AA cannon at dawn?

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Who to believe? 
> 
> The MET police video screen copy, the UNSC live TV broadcast or google maps video evidence.
> 
> Cujo, 'arry or MK will come out with definition of the "correct" source and put our simple minds to rest.
> 
> Judgement by 3pm Thai time please. 
> 
> Otherwise we go with the DPRK ace hackers judgement. 
> ...


Are you ever going to stop fucking waffling?

----------


## Klondyke

*Britains reaction to the Salisbury poisonings plays into Putins hands

*There is no spectacle so ridiculous as the British public in one of its periodical fits of morality. The poet Thomas Babington Macaulay might have had in mind the saga of the attempted killing last March of the Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and the subsequent death of a bystander. The reaction to the sad affair has been cynical, disproportionate and hypocritical.

That members of a security agency should have a vendetta against someone they regard as a traitor is unsurprising. Britons would hardly have turned a hair if something nasty had happened in Moscow to British double agents Guy Burgess, Donald Maclean or Kim Philby. Fed on a diet of extrajudicial spy killings, they assume that in this murky, pseudo-glamorised world traitors get their due deserts.

From the start it was likely, if not certain, that the novichok attack in Salisbury was revenge by hitmen with access to Russian poison, and with scant respect for recycling. No one is pretending that killing people is acceptable, nor is travelling on false passports or carrying nerve agents across international borders. It is also unwise for Russians to break a spy-swap deal, of which Skripal was a beneficiary.

The affair goes to show how pointless are Theresa Mays heavy-handed visa and border controls. As for whom to blame, May says it was not a rogue operation and came from a senior level in the Russian state, by implication Putin. But secret agencies of totalitarian states have their own methods, of which their superiors understandably prefer to know nothing. The cold war must have a deal of such scores still to settle. Of Putins involvement we are offered no knowledge.

The reality is that no ones hands are clean in this dubious form of near-war. Someone in Whitehall regularly authorises the extrajudicial killing of British citizens who have displeased Her Majestys government by going over to a perceived enemy, be it Islamic State, al-Qaeda or the Taliban. If a bystander also gets killed, that is bad luck, justified by a greater good. In 2015 two Britons, Reyaad Khan and Junaid Hussain, were killed by drones in Syria, as were Hussains wife, Sally Jones, and her 12-year-old son in 2017. However guilty the individuals, their execution was outside due process, carried out in a foreign state and prima facie against international law. But then Mosul, Raqqa and Idlib are not beloved Salisbury.

British justice loves geography. Few Britons realise how far, to Russians, London has become a Muscovite home from home. Under the money-laundering tolerance of Tony Blair and David Cameron, it was another Monaco or Cayman, an oligarchia of property bolt-holes and dodgy dealers, where no questions were asked and only money talked. To Russians, the idea of British authorities citing the rule of law and getting high and mighty about injury to a superannuated spy is laughable.

This is not about justice but about proportionate response. How many attempted murder victims in south London get the exclusive attention of 250 police officers for six months, and prime ministerial statements in parliament? From the start, the Skripal attack could have been treated as a local crime. It is clear that the police soon suspected the two Russians, and knew there was no way of bringing them to court. The case could have gone back in the pending file, and Putin accused of being a pathetic figure unable to control his own mobsters.

Instead it was turned into an international crisis, with Putin as a mastermind of gigantic evil. May leapt into the fray. The attempt on Skripals life was a chemical attack on British soil, as if Putin had personally sent sarin canisters raining down on hospitals and schools. At the Foreign Office at the time, Boris Johnson exultantly called it an act of war. The attack on Skripal was an existential threat, requiring an allied response, tit-for-tat penalties, UN meetings, expulsions, sanctions and excoriations.

British diplomacy was deflected from Brexit to secure the expulsion of 153 Russian spies from western capitals, leading to the predictable removal of two dozen British spies from Russia. Sanctions were imposed, trade was impeded and Putins cronies were forced to spend more time and money at home, an outcome that reputedly pleased Putin.
There is no evidence that such frenzy has led to any shift in Russian policy, any more than the similar response to the Litvinenko poisoning in London in 2006 deterred more poisonings. Deterrence, like sanctions, is an overrated concept in diplomacy. Just as Putins mischief-making, mendacity and posturing show a leader craving for macho publicity, so does the wests response. It is the politics of gestures, insults, headlines and staged indignation. It is infantile.

Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989, Europes democracies have driven Russia down the path on which Putin is set. They debilitated his predecessor, Boris Yeltsin. They denied Russia aid and trade. They pushed Natos boundaries to Russias border and taunted it with encirclement. London embraced Russias kleptocrats and bled it dry of its resource wealth. For a leader such as Putin, Europe was Lenins useful idiot.

Now Moscow is on a roll. Despite domestic angst over pension reform, Putins foreign policy is cruising. EU ineptitude is allowing him to re-establish cold war allegiances, with admirers in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Serbia and even Germany. His economy may be in a mess, but who cares when he has America and Britain dancing like marionettes on a string? So some hitman goofs in Salisbury. In return we let Putin mock us and parade his injured innocence before the world. Everything we do  everything  helps him.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sergei-skripal

----------


## Chico

> Are you ever going to stop fucking waffling?



Are you ever going to post anything of interest?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Are you ever going to post anything of interest?



Not for you Chico, your attention span would require something like the teletubbies.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Not for you Chico, your attention span would require something like the teletubbies.


 1 - 0 to Harry. Gonna have to up yer game Horatio.    :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

*Skripals – The Mystery Deepens*

The time that “Boshirov and Petrov” were allegedly in Salisbury carrying out the attack is all entirely within the period the Skripals were universally reported to have left their home with their mobile phones switched off.

A key hole in the British government’s account of the Salisbury poisonings has been plugged – the lack of any actual suspects. And it has been plugged in a way that appears broadly convincing – these two men do appear to have traveled to Salisbury at the right time to have been involved.

But what has not been established is the men’s identity and that they are agents of the Russian state, or just what they did in Salisbury. If they are Russian agents, they are remarkably amateur assassins. Meanwhile the new evidence throws the previously reported timelines into confusion – and demolishes the theories put out by “experts” as to why the Novichok dose was not fatal.

This BBC report gives a very useful timeline summary of events.

At 09.15 on Sunday 4 March the Skripals’ car was seen on CCTV driving through three different locations in Salisbury. Both Skripals had switched off their mobile phones and they remained off for over four hours, which has baffled geo-location.

There is no CCTV footage that indicates the Skripals returning to their home. It has therefore always been assumed that they last touched the door handle around 9am.

But the Metropolitan Police state that Boshirov and Petrov did not arrive in Salisbury until 11.48 on the day of the poisoning. That means that they could not have applied a nerve agent to the Skripals’ doorknob before noon at the earliest. But there has never been any indication that the Skripals returned to their home after noon on Sunday 4 March. If they did so, they and/or their car somehow avoided all CCTV cameras. Remember they were caught by three CCTV cameras on leaving, and Borishov and Petrov were caught frequently on CCTV on arriving.

The Skripals were next seen on CCTV at 13.30, driving down Devizes road. After that their movements were clearly witnessed or recorded until their admission to hospital.

So even if the Skripals made an “invisible” trip home before being seen on Devizes Road, that means the very latest they could have touched the doorknob is 13.15. The longest possible gap between the novichok being placed on the doorknob and the Skripals touching it would have been one hour and 15 minutes. Do you recall all those “experts” leaping in to tell us that the “ten times deadlier than VX” nerve agent was not fatal because it had degraded overnight on the doorknob? Well that cannot be true. The time between application and contact was between a minute and (at most) just over an hour on this new timeline.

In general it is worth observing that the Skripals, and poor Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley, all managed to achieve almost complete CCTV invisibility in their widespread movements around Salisbury at the key times, while in contrast “Petrov and Boshirov” managed to be frequently caught in high quality all the time during their brief visit.

Read more
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...stery-deepens/

----------


## Klondyke

*The Impossible Photo

*I am prepared to acknowledge that, given the gate design, they could have passed through different gates in exact synchronicity and this may be a red herring. I am leaving this post up here as it is good to acknowledge mistakes. Please read my updated post Skripals – The Mystery Deepens

Russia has developed an astonishing new technology enabling its secret agents to occupy precisely the same space at precisely the same time.



These CCTV images released by Scotland yard today allegedly show Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov both occupying exactly the same space at Gatwick airport at precisely the same second. 16.22.43 on 2 March 2018. Note neither photo shows the other following less than a second behind.

There is no physically possible explanation for this. You can see ten yards behind each of them, and neither has anybody behind for at least ten yards. Yet they were both photographed in the same spot at the same second.

The only possible explanations are:
1) One of the two is travelling faster than Usain Bolt can sprint
2) Scotland Yard has issued doctored CCTV images/timeline.

I am going with the Met issuing doctored images.

UPDATE

A number of people have pointed out a third logical possibility, that the photographs are not of the same place and they are coming through different though completely identical entry channels. The problem with that is the extreme synchronicity. You can see from the photos that the channel(s) are enclosed and quite long, and they would have had to enter different entrances to the channels. So it is remarkable they were at exactly the same point at the same time. Especially as one of them appears to be holding (wheeled?) luggage and one has only a shoulder bag.
I have traveled through Gatwick many times but cannot call to mind precisely where they are. Can anybody pinpoint the precise place in the airport? Before or after passport control? Before or after baggage collection? Before or after customs? The only part of the airport this looks like to me is shortly after leaving the plane after the bridge, and before joining the main gangway to passport control – in which case passengers are not split into separated channels at the stage this was taken. I can’t recall any close corridors as long as this after passport control. But I am open to correction.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...ossible-photo/

----------


## Dragonfly

MI6 fucked up the photo ops of the dossier, but that won't stop Maybot and the usual retards from blaming the Russians, like we needed evidence in the first place

a bit like Powell and his funny PowerPoint slides in the UNSC on the eve of the illegal invasion,

----------


## OhOh

As already illustrated there are multiple adjacent alleyways, all with cameras.

----------


## OhOh

*Are the Russian novichok hitmen already DEAD? New theory claims the men may have been executed to hide traces of the crime*


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6150271/Russian-novichok-hitmen-killed-cover-crime.html

Expands into other areas here:

Snippets.

_"Today's latest offering  is that the 'Russians' in the 'mugshots' released last week are  'already dead' having been 'executed by Putin' to stop them talking,  forever. Which neatly avoids the British state asking Russia for help in  identifying them. London's failure to do so was already arousing  suspicion amongst a cynical public. There is now no point, the would-be  assassins are now six-feet below the permafrost of Anglo-Russian  relations."
_
_As the 'Russian mugs,' by the police's own testimony shows, didn't  arrive in Salisbury until 11.48am, if they did paint the Skripal  doorknob with the "deadliest nerve agent known to man - 8-10 times more deadly than VX"  their horses had already bolted. If they did paint the doorknob they  did so at around noon in broad-daylight, when the neighbours were coming  home from church, doing their gardens, washing their cars and in full  view of the whole street. They wore no protective clothing while doing  it. And they then sauntered through the town centre, window-shopping and  being caught on every town centre CCTV camera. If any neighbour, who  had seen them painting the door, had called the police (and the 'mugs'  couldn't be sure that nobody had) they would have now been arrested  rather than 'buried under the frost'."

__Another police statement roundly ignored by the British media was the  answer Scotland Yard's Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, the head of UK  counter-terrorism policing, gave to a question asked at his press  conference by the BBC.
_
_"What kind of visa did the Russians enter Britain on?"
_
_"I don't know" was the reply. Not that for operational reasons he didn't want to say. But that he didn't know.
_
_I  know the commander and have a high respect for his professional  experience. I know that he cannot have failed to ask the Home Office  this question. I know that the Home Office must know the answer to the  question. The only logical inference therefore is that the Home Office -  which will have vetted the visa applications before the consulate in  Moscow could have been instructed to issue them - has refused to tell  the commander in charge of investigating the crime this basic and vital  piece of information."_

_https://www.rt.com/op-ed/438157-skri...ations-russia/
_
George does of course forget that the Russians are masters of electronic warfare and have miniature cloaking devices to hid the two men, but more importantly that create a dead zone. Stopping all phones, internet, CCTV and carrier pigeons from working in a user controlled radius.

 Being law abiding good Russians when they were told to turn off all electronic devices on the flight to the UK, they did so. Only remembering when they arrived outside the Skripal's house.

----------


## Pragmatic

All should be revealed soon.




> *'We have found them': Putin says Russia has identified two novichok hitmen who poisoned Kremlin spy and his daughter in Salisbury - but insists they are 'CIVILIANS, not criminals'*


 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ok-hitmen.html

----------


## SKkin

> Putin says Russia has identified two novichok hitmen


Yes that's revealing for sure...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *We have found them': Putin says Russia has identified two novichok hitmen who poisoned Kremlin spy and his daughter in Salisbury - but insists they are 'CIVILIANS, not criminals'*


Well what a surprise, there was me expecting him to admit they were cronies he sent to do the dirty deed.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## SKkin

^^ Putin going along with the BS narrative...imagine that.

----------


## Klondyke

After such a transparent explanation of the no-name hotelier (who showed he can read) who needs more evidence?

----------


## Pragmatic

^
I wonder if he'll get many enquiries for a room now?

----------


## OhOh

Many people who stay in AIRBnB disappear into the thin air.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Many people who stay in AIRBnB disappear into the thin air.


So why isn't it called Thinairbnb then?

----------


## misskit

*‘We’re not agents’: UK’s suspects in Skripal case talk exclusively with RT’s editor-in-chief (VIDEO)*Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov told RT’s editor-in-chief they had nothing to do with the Skripals’ poisoning and are now scared to go outside, after the UK pointed to them as Russian intelligence agents on a kill mission.

VIDEO/MORE https://www.rt.com/news/438350-petro...view-simonyan/



That clears it all up. They were in Salisbury for the Cathedrals!

----------


## Neverna

It's a bloody good cathedral, misskit. Well worth the journey.  :Smile:

----------


## Chico

Seems Russians can't be Tourists now. :Smile:

----------


## Neverna

I have to say I am somewhat surprised by that article. I would have thought that RT would want to make the suspects look good and make sure they (RT) wrote a good story to make it all look plausible. They didn't do a very good job.

----------


## Klondyke

^Yes. The "international Community" is used to get the presentation well prepared (and rehearsed) and the declaration read by those interviewed (afterwards disappeared).  

(In fact, what we saw with the Ms. Skripal and with the Hotel Manager Mr. No name, can we say it was an interview?)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I have to say I am somewhat surprised by that article. I would have thought that RT would want to make the suspects look good and make sure they (RT) wrote a good story to make it all look plausible. They didn't do a very good job.


Why would they give a fuck, he isn't going to hand them over anyway.

But the little fuckers will be looking over their shoulder should they ever try and leave the country, and that's about all that can be done.

----------


## OhOh

> They didn't do a very good job.


What do you mean. They weren't drunk, no flying bottles of Vodka, good sets of teeth, reasonable clothes and they had both had a shave. Blown many stereotypes out of the water, right there.

The female interviewer did look a little apprehensive, but she knows how quickly Russian men's personality can change eh.

 Not up to western standards where the questions and answers are known beforehand. Just two dumb shmucks on vacation. Or very well prepared GRU agents acting the part.

But not exactly a believable, award winning interview. Would you share a taxi with them on a dark night or a sunday lunchtime in Salisbury?

----------


## OhOh

> that's about all that can be done.


Good point 'arry. 

That's exactly where the western countries stand now. No legitimate way of winning just a stiletto in the ribs, very civilised.

----------


## Klondyke

Haven't we heard people close to that case within the past 6 months? 

E.g. the poor policeman and many people who brought the Skripals to hospital, all the hospital staff? Skripals' neigbours, etc.  And there were surely many others who had managed the Skripals and the other couple for over 6 months. How is possible that the free press hasn't interviewed them? 

Have we heard some of them? Not even reading from the paper. Oh yes, we have heard the woman in Parliament and the gray hair heads on the bench nodding to her fierce speach. Not to forget clown Boris...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Good point 'arry. 
> 
> That's exactly where the western countries stand now. No legitimate way of winning just a stiletto in the ribs, very civilised.


Well I was thinking more of the international arrest warrant, but you do love your little fairy tales.

----------


## Klondyke

> international arrest warrant


On what evidence? 
(oh yes, because the Maybot told that...)
(and the synchronized video...)

----------


## HermantheGerman

> *‘We’re not agents’: UK’s suspects in Skripal case talk exclusively with RT’s editor-in-chief (VIDEO)*


Look into their eyes. 

Highly intelligent 
Ice cold
Well build


First and last interview. They are history !

----------


## HermantheGerman

> PETROV: You say we kept silent. After, our lives turned into a  nightmare, we didn’t know what to do, where to go. The police?  The  Investigative Committee? *The UK embassy*?


 :smiley laughing: 

Yeah right... :rofl: 

First you have to get by the RUSSIAN security ! They would have then escorted them right to Theresa May, with a little flag waving  :UK: 

Putin and RT have surely not forgotten the "Art of Spying and Killing" . But their propaganda (media) is still as old fashion as the cold war era...and only numb brains like OhOh fall for it.
Should take some lessons from the chinese

----------


## Klondyke

> Look into their eyes. 
> 
> Highly intelligent 
> Ice cold
> Well build


And some are saying, there is no evidence...

----------


## harrybarracuda

That whole fucking interview was hilarious. We are supposed to believe they flew from Moscow to Salisbury for an hour's sightseeing?

Clearly it was aimed at the same sort of dumb, propaganda led idiots at which baldy orange cunto aims his horseshit carnival barking.

I daresay OhOh and his little puppy lapdog Klondyke lapped it all up.

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Dragonfly

ok it didn't seem too convincing, and they have the signature face of petty KGB officers, but who cares really  :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

Can someone please try and convince me that two men can walk up to a door, in full view of everyone, spray it with the most lethal nerve agent known to man, a drop the size of a pinhead will kill a buffalo in 2 minutes, without wearing protective clothing/respirators and not be contaminated themselves?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Can someone please try and convince me that two men can walk up to a door, in full view of everyone, spray it with the most lethal nerve agent known to man, a drop the size of a pinhead will kill a buffalo in 2 minutes, without wearing protective clothing/respirators and not be contaminated themselves?


Can someone please explain to you a scenario you just made up?

No.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Can someone please explain to you a scenario you just made up?


 I thought I was describing it as it was. Do you have a different version of events?

----------


## SKkin

> Do you have a different version of events?


The narrative is fluid...

 ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I thought I was describing it as it was. Do you have a different version of events?


I haven't seen any video of them doing what you describe.

Do you have a link?

----------


## Klondyke

For the 911 we also haven't seen any evidence (to the official version), however, we believe it, don't we? 
Pity that nobody hadn't advised Bush that time about "highly likely" evidence...

----------


## Neverna

Instead of complaining about the slush and the weather in Salisbury, those two Russian guys should count themselves lucky. If they'd gone there the next day, the whole city was on lockdown. 


 :Smile:

----------


## misskit

*Skripal Poisoning Suspect’s Passport Data Shows Link to Security Services*


An ongoing Bellingcat investigation conducted jointly with The Insider Russia has confirmed through uncovered passport data that the two Russian nationals identified by UK authorities as prime suspects in the Novichok poisonings on British soil are linked to Russian security services. This finding directly contradicts claims by the Russian president on 12 September 2018, and by the two men in an interview broadcast on RT one day later, that they are civilians who traveled to Salisbury for a tourist getaway.


Original Russian documents reviewed by Bellingcat and The Insider confirm definitively that the two men were registered in the central Russian resident database under the names Alexander Yevgenievich Petrov and Ruslan Timurovich Boshirov, respectively, and were issued internal passports under these names in 2009. However, no records exist for these two personas prior to 2009. This suggests the two names were likely cover identities for operatives of one of the Russian security services. Crucially, at least one man’s passport files contain various “top-secret” markings, which, according to at least two sources consulted by Bellingcat, are typically reserved for members of secret services or top state operatives.


These findings, along with peculiarities in the two men’s bookings of their flight to London, make Russia’s official statements that Petrov and Boshirov are civilian tourists implausible, and corroborate UK authorities’ claims that they are in fact officers of a Russian security service.
*Last-minute travel plans*

Aeroflot’s passenger manifest, reviewed by Bellingcat and The Insider, discredits Petrov and Boshirov’s claims, made in the RT interview, that they had been planning their visit to Salisbury for a long time. The manifest records the times of booking, check-in, and boarding of each passenger. In the case of the two suspects, they made their initial booking – and checked in online – at 20:00 GMT (22:00 Moscow time) on 1 March 2018, the night before their short trip to London and Salisbury.


The two suspects flew back to Moscow on 4 March 2018, having taken two trips to Salisbury both on March 3rd and March 4th, the day on which the Skripals were poisoned.


MORE. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-a...rity-services/

----------


## Pragmatic

> I haven't seen any video of them doing what you describe.


 And neither has anyone else. Also I don't believe there are any eyewitnesses who eyeballed the two in the area close to the Skripal's house. Now if I was Skripal, and having the history he has, I'm pretty damn sure I'd have some sort of surveillance device on my door so's I could see who's there.

----------


## OhOh

> I could see who's there.


And store on a device somewhere local or on web based systems. The sort of set-up many have to monitor ones elderly parents. Available at all DIY stores in UK.

----------


## Klondyke

> that they had been planning their visit to Salisbury for a long time. The manifest records the times of booking, check-in, and boarding of each passenger. In the case of the two suspects, they made their initial booking – and checked in online – at 20:00 GMT (22:00 Moscow time) on 1 March 2018, the night before their short trip to London and Salisbury.


I too plan to go somewhere for a long time but make the booking online only on a very short notice since not sure whether I'll be free in that time...

----------


## Klondyke

> An ongoing Bellingcat investigation conducted jointly with The Insider


Is the Bellingcat the same agency that provides the same finding as the UK official stance on MH17 downed by Putin, chemical weapons by Syrian govt, etc?

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## harrybarracuda

> And neither has anyone else. Also I don't believe there are any eyewitnesses who eyeballed the two in the area close to the Skripal's house. Now if I was Skripal, and having the history he has, I'm pretty damn sure I'd have some sort of surveillance device on my door so's I could see who's there.


Yes I'm sure every spy puts a live feed of him and his house on the internet 555555

----------


## Klondyke

Why is it that the people who teeth nails fight for official versions of WTC are also always those who teeth nails defend official MH17, chemical Saddam, chemical Assad, Novichok, Crimea grab, etc. ? 

Perhaps that behind all is Putin? (also behind WTC?)

----------


## misskit

*After a Salisbury suspect's passport records leak, Russian journalists find a phone number in the documents possibly tying him to the GRU*On September 14, the open-source intelligence group Bellingcat and the investigative news website The Insider released passport data belonging to Alexander Petrov, one of the men identified by British authorities as a suspect in the March 4 nerve-agent attack in Salisbury, showing that his passport files contain various “top-secret” markings that seem to contradict his claims that he’s a mere civilian.


Hours later, the newspaper Novaya Gazeta reported that the leaked passport records include yet another piece of evidence linking Petrov to Russia’s intelligence services: below one marking, the phone number 195-79-66 appears. This number, the newspaper says, is linked to the Russian Defense Ministry’s Military Intelligence Directorate.


According to Novaya Gazeta, the automatic telephone station number “195” is tied to Moscow’s Khoroshkovsky District, which is also home to the headquarters of the Russian Defense Ministry’s Military Intelligence Directorate.


The newspaper says the phone number’s connections to the Defense Ministry can also be tested another way: if you take the first five digits of the number and plug them into any online search engine, you’ll find several phone numbers belonging to various subdivisions and affiliated offices of Russia’s Defense Ministry.


For example, the telephone number for the Defense Ministry’s magazine Foreign Military Review is 499-195-79-64 (only a single digit different from the number listed on Petrov’s documents). The magazine’s office is located off Khoroshkovsky Highway, near the GRU (Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation).


“Most likely, the number on Petrov’s Federal Migration Service certificate is the phone number for the branch office where they served,” a former Russian intelligence worker told Novaya Gazeta.


https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/09...o-russia-s-gru

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## Pragmatic

Now it's claimed the two named Ruskies didn't do the poisoning. 




> *Britain may have MISSED the real 'novichok assassins' by concentrating on pair caught on CCTV who may only have been 'watchers' spying on Skripal family home*
> 
> 
> *UK named Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov as Salisbury novichok suspects**Pair were seen on CCTV but have claimed they were just visiting the historic city**Ex-GRU spy has doubted the two Russian men are the real 'novickok assassins'**Instead, agent says pair may have been 'watchers' spying on Skripal family home*


 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ught-CCTV.html

----------


## Klondyke

> 


Didn't we have here behind this funny thing few more posts? 
Just curious...

----------


## Dragonfly

This is fucking hilarious, 

hard men, the Russians, in the land of drama queens, the British  :Smile: 

great fucking drama, could only end in a spectacular storm in a tea cup   :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> This is fucking hilarious,


 Too right it is. Now it's claimed the 2 named Ruskies were not the real poisoners. So how come Novichok was allegedly found in their hotel room?    :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


*Ex-GRU spy has doubted the two Russian men are the real 'novickok assassins'**Instead, agent says pair may have been 'watchers' spying on Skripal family home*

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Too right it is. Now it's claimed the 2 named Ruskies were not the real poisoners. So how come Novichok was allegedly found in their hotel room?   
> 
> 
> *Ex-GRU spy has doubted the two Russian men are the real 'novickok assassins'**Instead, agent says pair may have been 'watchers' spying on Skripal family home*


"It is claimed"...


By the Daily fucking Mail.

You chump.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> So how come Novichok was allegedly found in their hotel room?


Salisbury is a favourite place to visit for Russians, it is said by some. 

That day over 600 Russians held a secret meeting in a field just outside the town. Many were female who undoubtedly wore perfume. The secret meeting was for all the purchasers of a particular brand at the Moscow store last Christmas. There were over 1,000 who were eligible, unfortunately some had died in suspicious circumstances prior to the event.

Due to transport problems not all decided to attend and spent the day sightseeing and visiting local restaurants. The police were called to one where trouble had erupted when a few handbags went missing. Luckily all were found and their perfume bottles safely returned after police "inspections".

There was an article in the Salisbury local paper. It seems to have disappeared. Nothing on RT either.

 :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

And when the Skripal father, daughter switched off their mobils, perhaps they wanted to make it difficult for the assassins, didn't they?

Wondering, why the old Skripal - an animal lover -  had kept the poor pets? Had he always checked his food with (on) them ?

----------


## misskit

^ Is this some Lower Slobovian code? Doesn’t make a bit of sense in English.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^ Is this some Lower Slobovian code? Doesnt make a bit of sense in English.


I found it easier to just ignore the gibbering idiot rather than try and decipher the gibberish.

 :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

> ^ Is this some Lower Slobovian code? Doesn’t make a bit of sense in English.


Our old "Lower Slobovian" proverb  says: "A word to the wise is enough, a nod is as good as a wink"
(but some - please no names - will not get the clue)

----------


## OhOh

> an animal lover -


Or using the gerbils to experiment with.

----------


## Klondyke

*Two People Who Recently Got Ill in Salisbury Not Exposed to Nerve Agent - Police*

Earlier, local police cordoned off streets in Salisbury and an Italian restaurant as a "precautionary measure" after a man and woman fell ill amid reports of "possible nerve agent poisoning." At least one of the patients was thought to be Russian.

Following medical tests, UK police announced that the two people who recently became ill in Salisbury had not been poisoned by a nerve agent, despite initial reports suggesting that the couple’s symptoms were “consistent with Novichok poisoning.”

Read more
https://sputniknews.com/europe/20180...utnik_inter_en

----------


## Pragmatic

> initial reports suggesting that the couples symptoms were consistent with Novichok poisoning.


Nerve agents give the same symptoms as food poisoning.

 paralytic reaction from shellfish poisoning (PSP):


> Symptoms of PSP could begin within a few minutes and up to 10 hours after consumption.Symptoms of PSP can include: 
> ...
> ...
> *Respiratory difficulty, salivation, temporary blindness, nausea and vomiting may also occur.**In extreme cases, paralysis of respiratory muscles may lead to respiratory arrest and death* within two to twelve hours after consumption. Seriously affected people must be hospitalized and placed under respiratory care.


MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning

----------


## OhOh

> Seriously affected people must be hospitalized and placed under respiratory care.


 And presumably treated on the assumption or after careful study of the immediate test results, with antidotes for the "most likely" problem, PSP?

Q1. If blood, tissue or other samples are taken by the 'on-call doctor/nurse" upon hospital admission and tested for PSP, are the immediate results "similar" to chemical weapons, which the on-call doctors  "most likely", have never seen before"? Would any "treatment" for PSP change the samples taken after treatment to resemble post CW poisoning?

Q2. If the samples are not immediately taken from the body or left for a few days/weeks in normal storage conditions prior to testing, are "shellfish poisoning" results different from the samples taken when first admitted? 

Q3. If the human has been administered with any chemical weapons "antidotes", from a "local storage/manufacturer" upon admittance to hospital and subject to "best treatment" by the "local experts", do they differ from Q1?


Should an OPCW team analyse the latest samples for comment? Is anybody investigating whether the "most likely" culprits are trying different dose strengths to perfect the illness/death red line?

----------


## misskit

*Skripal Suspect Boshirov Identified as GRU Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga*Bellingcat and its investigative partner The Insider – Russia have established conclusively the identity of one of the suspects in the poisoning of Sergey and Yulia Skripal, and in the homicide of British citizen Dawn Sturgess. 


Part 1 and Part 2 of Bellingcat’s investigation into the Skripal poisoning suspects are available for background information. In these previous two parts of the investigation, Bellingcat and the Insider concluded that the two suspects – traveling internationally and appearing on Russian television under the aliases “Ruslan Boshirov” and “Alexander Petrov” – are in fact undercover officers of the Russian Military Intelligence, widely known as GRU.


Bellingcat has been able to confirm the actual identity of one of the two officers. The suspect using the cover identity of “Ruslan Boshirov” is in fact Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga, a highly decorated GRU officer bestowed with Russia’s highest state award, Hero of the Russian Federation. Following Bellingcat’s own identification, multiple sources familiar with the person and/or the investigation have confirmed the suspect’s identity.

MORE https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-a...toliy-chepiga/

----------


## Hugh Cow

Expecting OhOh along shortly to prove its all a plot to discredit Russia. No doubt quoting a source from RT.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Expecting OhOh along shortly to prove its all a plot to discredit Russia. No doubt quoting a source from RT.


Or Sputnik.

----------


## Pragmatic

The likes of Heathrow have 'facial recognition security'. Two known GRU officers can openly walk through security and not be picked up? So who are the people the 'facial recognition' security cameras have been put in to catch?

----------


## Hugh Cow

^ Probably designed to catch those international criminals that have tried to sneak an extra bottle of duty free through customs.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Probably designed to catch those international criminals that have tried to sneak an extra bottle of duty free through customs.


 So how come the system never caught those 2 ruskies with a bottle of duty free Novichok?   :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> multiple sources familiar with the person and/or the investigation have confirmed the suspect’s identity.





> Expecting OhOh along shortly to





> Or Sputnik.


Until MK's sources are identified, I'm and suspect RT and Sputnik will keep stum. I wonder if the three men photographed have the same iris scans?




> Two known GRU officers can openly walk through security and not be picked up?


Their visa application to enter the UK is also dubious, two young males, no official workplace, no regular income, no dependents ...... leads your average Visa issuing officer to suspect they would not be returning to Russia, as both tick the normal "intending to remain" boxes in the UK Embassy Visa system in Moscow and coincidentally Bangkok.




> to sneak an extra bottle of duty free


Now you know why duty free assistants always asks for your flight number.




> with a bottle of duty free Novichok?


You'll note that neither were charged with the murder of the druggie woman. Their fingerprints, required to obtain the UK visa from the UK Embassy in Moscow, were not matched with those found on the perfume bottle found at the hotel where the two stayed.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

----------


## Norton

> It's like shooting fish in a barrel


www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Y5XjlO4vk

----------


## Pragmatic

> You'll note that neither were charged with the murder of the druggie woman.


 Has anyone been charged with anything? I think I'll just sit tight and wait for the movie to come out.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

IIRC the UK announced that there are arrest warrants out in the International system. However some "sources" report neither the two tourists or the alleged GRU agent's names are on the system's latest official list. :Smile:

----------


## cyrille

> to sneak an extra bottle of duty free through customs.






> Now you know why duty free assistants always asks for your flight number.


Surely that would be to make sure you're a flight passenger. Why would they care if you're over the df limit?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The likes of Heathrow have 'facial recognition security'. Two known GRU officers can openly walk through security and not be picked up? So who are the people the 'facial recognition' security cameras have been put in to catch?


People whose biometrics are already in the system.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Now you know why duty free assistants always asks for your flight number.


Well he doesn't because you certainly don't.

In the UK it's because they can claim back the VAT if the person is travelling outside the EU.

In other countries its simply for marketing purposes.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> IIRC the UK announced that there are arrest warrants out in the International system. However some "sources" report neither the two tourists or the alleged GRU agent's names are on the system's latest official list.


"Sources" = one of HoHo's whackjob websites.

They could put mickey fucking mouse on the list, it's still not going to make Vlad hand over his hired killers.

----------


## SKkin

> No doubt quoting a source from RT.


Bellingcat is much more reliable...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 






> [Eliot] Higgins' analyses of Syrian weapons, which began as a hobby out of his  home in his spare time, are frequently cited by the press and human  rights groups and have led to parliamentary discussion.[1]  His Brown Moses Blog began in March 2012 by covering the Syrian  conflict. Higgins operates by monitoring over 450 YouTube channels daily  looking for images of weapons and tracking when new types appear in the  war, where, and with whom.[1] According to _Guardian_  reporter Matthew Weaver, Higgins has been "hailed as something of a  pioneer" for his work. Higgins has no background or training in weapons  and is entirely self-taught, saying that "Before the Arab spring I knew  no more about weapons than the average Xbox owner. I had no knowledge  beyond what I'd learned from Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rambo."[1] Higgins does not speak or read Arabic.[6]



Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat, Who is He? Everything You Need to Know…
https://thetruthspeaker.co/2016/02/2...-need-to-know/

----------


## OhOh

An interesting post by Craig Murray. Suggesting the Bellingcat guy is being strung along, allegethat Russian sources maybe behind his "unnamed Russian sources" and are feeding enough to keep him and his UK handlers on the hook. To be reeled in once the hook has been swallowed, digested and shat out as another confirmed "Russian Plot" led by the dastardly LORD.

Along with other subjects in the comments pages.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...games/#respond

----------


## misskit

> Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat, Who is He? Everything You Need to Know…
> https://thetruthspeaker.co/2016/02/2...-need-to-know/



Graham Phillips of The Truth Speaker, who is he? Everything you need to know...

*Graham Phillips is a sack of shit, and there are many more like him*


https://nobsrussia.com/2014/05/21/gr...more-like-him/


You can dig up articles to besmirch any journalist. There are plenty more on Phillips “who  many see as a propagandist.” 

(SKKin, you seem to excell in tearing down anyone who has credibility or recognition. Feeling small?)

----------


## harrybarracuda

Dumbass SKkin strikes again.

To discredit Bellingcat, he quotes one Graham Phillips, a pretentious sounding wanker:




> I'm a 39-year-old journalist known for my coverage of Donbass, and Crimea. I also work in mainland Russia, and across Europe, entirely crowdfunded, independent of any channel or affiliation.


Who turns out to be another Russian arselicker, who even got a medal from the Russians that he forgot to tweet (surprise surprise).



I suppose you arselickers have to stick together, eh Skinny?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> An interesting post by Craig Murray. Suggesting the Bellingcat guy is being strung along, allegethat Russian sources maybe behind his "unnamed Russian sources" and are feeding enough to keep him and his UK handlers on the hook. To be reeled in once the hook has been swallowed, digested and shat out as another confirmed "Russian Plot" led by the dastardly LORD.
> 
> Along with other subjects in the comments pages.
> 
> https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...games/#respond



And Craig Murray, another Russkie stooge, and a bitter alcoholic who can't get over being sacked by the government for being a drunk.

And you're trying to discredit someone else?

 :rofl:

----------


## SKkin

Eliot Higgins journalist...  :rofl: 

More like a propagandist himself. Who's the deep pockets funding his work now?

----------


## misskit

^Who’s pocket, SKK? Link?


How a college drop out became a champion of investigative journalism

The founder of Bellingcat explains how his site went from a hobby to exposing the identity of one of the novichok poisoning suspects

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...atoliy-chepiga

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Eliot Higgins journalist... 
> 
> More like a propagandist himself. Who's the deep pockets funding his work now?


You tell me.

----------


## Klondyke

Why not to believe to "an independent" ("non-state-run") web that says always the same as the truth-trumpeting BBC?

Similarly, better to be mistaken (wrong) with GWB than to be correct with Mr. P...

----------


## SKkin

> Whos pocket, SKK? Link?


https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/sta...54441485869056




> *Eliot Higgins*‏Verified account @*EliotHiggins* 
> 
>                   Replying to @*adamjohnsonNYC* 
>                      Bellingcat has received money from the following: 
> 
> OSF 
> Meedan 
> NED 
> Google 
> ...


OSF = Open Society Foundations

NED = National Endowment for Democracy

----------


## SKkin

The tragi-comedy  that is “Brown Moses”
https://off-guardian.org/2015/08/18/...s-brown-moses/


'Bellingcat Report Doesn't Prove Anything' 
                            Expert Criticizes Allegations of Russian MH17 Manipulation
Expert Criticizes Allegations of Russian MH17 Manipulation - SPIEGEL ONLINE




War Propaganda Firm Bellingcat Continues Lying About Syria
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2018/04...g-about-syria/





> Higgins is a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, an extremely shady think tank with ties to powerful oligarchs. Its name seems to come up whenever you investigate any of the mainstream media’s favorite Russia conspiracy theories, from the DNC hack to Russian trolls to the PropOrNot blacklist publicized by the _Washington Post_which  normalized the smearing of alternative media outlets as Kremlin  propaganda. It’s a very influential organization with a very clear  agenda, and it is Higgins’ job to advance that agenda.






From my link yesterday:




> *Higgins either vehemently hates*, or has been told to hate Russia, and Russia’s president Putin. Have a look at his Twitter timeline,  of some 127,000 tweets, and it can read at times like one man trolling  an entire country. A stream, a barrage, of anti-Russian tweets,  retweets, and Higgins doesn’t even try to hide that he despises Russia,  or has been told to – this just from a quick ‘Russia‘ search of his recent tweets, and just a small sampling –



'arry and missk...why so vested in Russia being the enemy? What's your irons in the fire?

----------


## harrybarracuda

Quoting that fucking looney Caitlin Johnstone? Dredging the bottom of the barrel a bit aren't we?




> why so vested in Russia being the enemy? What's your irons in the fire?


Putin is a murderous, crooked dictator. I hate murderous, crooked dictators.

Anyway, let's see him talk his way out of this one. They've got the c u n t bang to rights and no mistake.

----------


## SKkin

> (SKKin, you seem to excell in tearing down anyone who has credibility or recognition. Feeling small?)



I distinctly remember giving props to those I think deserve it as well. For instance, Robert Parry(RIP). Here's Mr. Parry on the subject of Bellingcat/Higgins:

*What to Do About ‘Fake News’*
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/1...out-fake-news/




> *Ministry of Truth
> 
> *So, who are the “responsible” journalists who should be anointed to  regulate what the world’s public gets to see and hear? For that  Orwellian task, a kind of Ministry of Truth has been set up by Google, called the First Draft Coalition, which touts itself as a collection of 30 major news and technology companies,  including the Times and Post, tackling “fake news” and creating a  platform to decide which stories are questionable and which ones aren’t.
> 
> Formed in June 2015 and funded by Google News Lab, the First Draft  Coalition’s founding members included Bellingcat, an online “citizen  journalism” site that has gotten many of its highest profile stories  wrong and is now associated with NATO’s favorite think tank, the  Atlantic Council.
> 
> Despite Bellingcat’s checkered record and its conflicts of interest  through the Atlantic Council, major Western news outlets, including the  Times and Post, have embraced Bellingcat, apparently because its  articles always seem to mesh neatly with U.S. and European propaganda on  Syria and Ukraine.
> 
> Two of Bellingcat’s (or its founder Eliot Higgins’s) biggest errors were misplacing the firing location of the suspected Syrian rocket carrying sarin gas on Aug. 21, 2013, and directing an Australian news crew to the wrong site for the so-called getaway Buk video after the July 17, 2014 shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.
> ...



Some others I like...Fisk, Hersh and Pilger.

...and no missk, I'm feeling rather girthy, thanks for asking.  :Smile:

----------


## SKkin

> Putin is a murderous, crooked dictator. I hate murderous, crooked dictators.


Well I certainly don't love him... But I also hate the constant stream of BS in the US Corporate media in support of wars and conflicts that has been going on for my entire lifetime. I'm fucking sick of the constant lies and propaganda from "our side."  Do you understand that?  

btw, how many times have I(the "dumbass") name-called you 'arry?

----------


## SKkin

fcuking commie arselickers...  :Smile: 

The Bellingcat research collective: War propaganda masquerading as “citizen journalism”




> In other words, Higgins/Bellingcat is useful for pumping out propaganda  masquerading as “citizen journalism.” The so-called “research  collective” is an Internet and social media adjunct of the US government  and NATO. The conclusions of its “research” are determined by Higgins’  politics, which serve the interests of the imperialist powers as they  gear up for war against Russia.


https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/201.../bell-o13.html

----------


## harrybarracuda

> fcuking commie arselickers... 
> 
> The Bellingcat research collective: War propaganda masquerading as “citizen journalism”
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/201.../bell-o13.html


Now you're getting fucking ridiculous.

Who next, Dave Spart?

----------


## Klondyke

> I hate murderous, crooked dictators.


However, reading his posts one has to assume there is only one "murderous, crooked dictator"...  
(among all the other generous leaders who - by peaceful means - trying to rescue the world from him)

----------


## Klondyke

There is a lot of talk about the "_murderous, crooked dictators"  -_ who first rolled out a red carper for their friend Khaddafi (and not only for him) - in the link https://teakdoor.com/speakers-corner/...ml#post3832608 (Al Jazeera Documentaries) I gave few minutes ago. 

Still waiting to learn all the names of those "_murderous, crooked dictators"_ involved(the one name seems not to be reported) ...

----------


## misskit

^Oh, for God’s sake! This thread is about the Skirpal poisoning.

Are you two saying this is not the same man? Really?

----------


## OhOh

^Ears

----------


## misskit

^ Yep. The dead giveaway. Those squared off ears.

----------


## david44

Let's not foget that many Russian spies in UK were gay or American, Kroger aka Cohen of New York.philby etc.

Lona even had her own stamp, other sleepers no doubt to be unearthed

----------


## OhOh

^^

Personally I see the person on the left having "squared off" at the bottom ears and the person on the right having "tapering" at the bottom ears, getting narrower towards the bottom. However the photo on the left appears against a "white" background. Which makes it much easier to "crop". The one on the right, being in colour and turned , would be more difficult to edit.

We don't know the source of the one on the left, we know the source of the one on the right - a RT video made public to the world.

One day the truth will be clear.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^^
> 
> Personally I see the person on the left having "squared off" at the bottom ears and the person on the right having "tapering" at the bottom ears, getting narrower towards the bottom. However the photo on the left appears against a "white" background. Which makes it much easier to "crop". The one on the right, being in colour and turned , would be more difficult to edit.
> 
> We don't know the source of the one on the left, we know the source of the one on the right - a RT video made public to the world.
> 
> One day the truth will be clear.


It's already clear except to drones like yourself.

----------


## david44

So Sfb put the real killers on RT?

----------


## SKkin

> Oh, for God’s sake! This thread is about the Skirpal poisoning.


Aren't you the one that introduced the Bellingcat site to this thread?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Aren't you the one that introduced the Bellingcat site to this thread?


.... Which is about one of the Skrpal poisoners.... duh.

----------


## Dragonfly

> It's already clear except to drones like yourself.


love the fooking irony Harry  :Smile:

----------


## SKkin

> .... Which is about one of the Skrpal poisoners.... duh.

----------


## Klondyke

And somebody would claim that the Russians are not welcome in UK. 
Any other govt would be so generous to spend such big money for Russian citizens rescue? (and revanche either...)  

(BTW, the Russian govt haven't spent anything for them)

----------


## misskit

^Been reading Republic ?

*Columnist Oleg Kashin warns that Russians who are helping to unmask the Salisbury suspects have chosen the ‘wrong side’*In a new op-ed for Republic, columnist Oleg Kashin argues that Russians face a moral dilemma when assisting in the exposure of Russian intelligence agents working abroad. Kashin posits two scenarios that test Russians’ relationship with their state: (1) an undercover cop embedded in a social group, and (2) a secret agent working against foreign operatives. The first situation is modeled explicitly on the controversial criminal case against the “New Greatness” extremist movement (where undercover police officers allegedly set up several young people for felony charges), and the latter is based on the unmasking of the two Salisbury attack suspects as GRU officers.


In the former case, Kashin says, outing the cop’s true identity is unambiguously the right choice for Russian civilians, as it could keep innocents out of jail. The same isn’t true, when it comes to helping foreigners, Kashin argues. 


“There are no moral grounds for siding with foreigners in the Russian state’s confrontations with other states. No state in the world is interested in protecting Russians, and Russian citizens act against their own interests by siding with another state and its intelligence agencies,” Kashin writes, implicitly criticizing journalist Sergey Kanev, who recently fled Russia, after publishing an investigative report claiming that Salisbury suspect Anatoly Chepiga received a medal for his part in bringing deposed Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych to Russia in February 2014. Kanev also supplied evidence that likely ties “Alexander Petrov,” the other Salisbury suspect, to Russia’s military intelligence.


Kashin warns that anti-Putin sentiment sometimes drives Russians to root for the Kremlin's adversaries, for example, even when it’s Ukraine’s notorious “Azov” battalion. In addition to being morally questionable, Kashin says it’s likely impractical, arguing that Moscow’s defeat abroad does not benefit ordinary Russians at home. Exposing weakness in the Russian armed forces, moreover, could prompt a new wave of militarism, defense allocations, and social-spending austerity measures. Kashin cites Russia’s struggles in the 2008 Georgian War as a catalyst for “the Russian militarism of our era.”


It so happens that Oleg Kashin has written about citizen-state relations in Russia before. As Conflict Intelligence Team researcher Kirill Mikhailov pointed out on Twitter, Kashin wrote an article in August 2015 that argues roughly the opposite of what he said in his new Republic piece. “Let the Russian Federation be ashamed of the Russian Federation,” Kashin said more than two years ago. “It’s not us, and it has nothing to do with us. It’s not our state, and it’s hostile to any Russian person anywhere. Treat it like ISIS.”


https://meduza.io/en/feature/2018/10...the-wrong-side

----------


## misskit

*Putin calls Sergey Skripal a ‘scumbag’ and a ‘traitor to his homeland’*Speaking on Wednesday at the Russian Energy Week International Forum in Moscow, Vladimir Putin called former GRU officer Sergey Skripal a “scumbag” and a “traitor to his homeland,” referring to the double agent who spied for the British before being arrested for treason and later swapped with the West. In March 2018, Skripal was nearly killed in an apparent assassination attempt allegedly by Russian intelligence agents.


“As for Skripal and so on, this is just the latest spy scandal to be inflated artificially. I follow different information sources, and your colleagues are promoting the idea that Mr. Skripal is nearly some kind of human rights activist. He’s just a spy — a traitor to his homeland. Think about it: a national traitor,” Putin said. The president also called Skripal “nothing more than a scumbag,” and said he welcomes an end to the “informational campaign” surrounding Skripal's poisoning.



https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/10/03...o-his-homeland

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *Putin calls Sergey Skripal a ‘scumbag’ and a ‘traitor to his homeland’*
> 
> Speaking on Wednesday at the Russian Energy Week International Forum in Moscow, Vladimir Putin called former GRU officer Sergey Skripal a “scumbag” and a “traitor to his homeland,” referring to the double agent who spied for the British before being arrested for treason and later swapped with the West. In March 2018, Skripal was nearly killed in an apparent assassination attempt allegedly by Russian intelligence agents.
> 
> 
> “As for Skripal and so on, this is just the latest spy scandal to be inflated artificially. I follow different information sources, and your colleagues are promoting the idea that Mr. Skripal is nearly some kind of human rights activist. He’s just a spy — a traitor to his homeland. Think about it: a national traitor,” Putin said. The president also called Skripal “nothing more than a scumbag,” and said he welcomes an end to the “informational campaign” surrounding Skripal's poisoning.
> 
> 
> 
> https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/10/03...o-his-homeland


Sounds a bit pissed off that his henchmen failed...

----------


## Pragmatic

> Putin calls Sergey Skripal a ‘scumbag’ and a ‘traitor to his homeland’


 And he is perfectly right in his assessment. Skripal sold his country out for financial rewards. But what I do not understand is why Skripal was allowed to leave prison alive if Putin wanted him dead?

----------


## Klondyke

> Putin calls Sergey Skripal a ‘scumbag’ and a ‘traitor to his homeland’


As a matter of fact, what is untrue on that statement?

----------


## misskit

^ Anyone stating it isn’t true? I’m sure that is why Skripal ended up dead.

People going to England to kill him is the problem. Keep the dirty work at home.

----------


## harrybarracuda

I expect the drones will be along to tell us they were just there to take photos of windmills and tulips, and the antenna was to listen to their favourite Russian pop radio station.






> _Picture released by Dutch security services of the four Russian GRU agents accompanied by a Russian diplomat with his face obscured_
> 
> 
> 
> Four Russian intelligence agents part of the GRU were caught “in flagrante” attempting to hack the headquarters of the chemical weapons watchdog in the Netherlands, Whitehall officials have said. A joint operation by Dutch and British intelligence services intercepted the group, who had hired a car with a boot full of IT equipment that was being used for “close access attack” of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in the Hague. The operation occurred in April, where the Russian agents were caught trying to hack into the OPCW, where investigations into the chemical weapons used in Salisbury and Douma, Syria, were being carried out.
> 
> It followed two previous hacking attempts on UK soil, including targeting the Foreign Office and the Porton Down chemical weapons facility in Salisbury. In a joint statement from Theresa May and Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte said the spy agency had shown a “disregard for the global values and rules that keep us safe”. Details were released in a co-ordinated release by the UK and Dutch authorities on Thursday.
> 
> The four men travelled into Amsterdam using diplomatic passports, and were escorted by a member of the Russian embassy in the Netherlands. The men hired a car filled with specialised equipment, including an antenna which was hidden under a coat in the boot, to try and hack the wifi network of the OPCW. It followed previous “spear-fishing” attempts by state-backed hackers in Moscow, including sending emails to OPCW employees to try and break into the organisation’s IT systems.
> ...

----------


## Pragmatic

Seems somewhat blatant for them to all be seen together knowing full well, as known members of the GRU, they would be recognised.  I just don't buy it.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Seems somewhat blatant for them to all be seen together knowing full well, as known members of the GRU, they would be recognised.  I just don't buy it.


It happened in April.

Perhaps they didn't identify them until now. At the time they were caught they were travelling on diplomatic passports.

You don't get this fucking spying game at all, do you?

 :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> You don't get this fucking spying game at all, do you?


Nah, I'm fcuked. I'll wait for the movie to come out.

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## OhOh

> Perhaps they didn't identify them until now



 :Smile: 





> Speaking on Wednesday at the Russian Energy Week International Forum in Moscow,





> Sounds a bit pissed off that his henchmen failed...


The full transcript is here :

Russian Energy Week International Forum ? President of[at]Russia

If interested .





> And he is perfectly right in his assessment. Skripal sold his country out for financial rewards.


Many from other countries have been called worse.

An opinion with relevant "facts" here:

MoA - How The U.S. Runs Public Relations Campaigns - Trump Style - Against Russia And China

_The anti-Russian campaign is about alleged Russian spying, hacking  and influence operations. Britain and the Netherland took the lead.  Britain accused  Russia's military intelligence service (GRU) of spying attempts against  the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) in The  Hague and Switzerland, of spying attempts against the British Foreign  Office, of influence campaigns related to European and the U.S.  elections, and of hacking the international doping agency WADA. British  media willingly helped to exaggerate the claims:

__The Foreign Office attributed six specific attacks to GRU-backed hackers and identified 12 hacking group code names as fronts for the GRU   Fancy Bear, Voodoo Bear, APT28, Sofacy, Pawnstorm, Sednit,  CyberCaliphate, Cyber Berku, BlackEnergy Actors, STRONTIUM, Tsar Team  and Sandworm."

__The "hacking group code names" the Guardian tries to sell to its readers do not refer to hacking groups but to certain cyberattack methods.  Once such a method is known it can be used by any competent group and  individual. Attributing such an attack is nearly impossible. Moreover  Fancybear, ATP28, Pawn Storm, Sofacy Group, Sednit and Strontium are  just different names for one and the same well known method. The other names listed refer to old groups and tools related to criminal hackers. Blackenergy  has been used by cybercriminals since 2007. It is alleged that a  pro-Russian group named Sandworm used it in Ukraine, but the evidence  for that is dubious at best. To throw out such a list of code names  without any differentiation reeks of a Fear-Uncertainty-Doubt (FUD)  campaign designed to dis-inform and scare the public.
_
_The Netherland for its part released a flurry of information  about the alleged spying attempts against the OPCW in The Hague. It  claims that four GRU agents traveled to The Hague on official Russian  diplomatic passports to sniff out the WiFi network of the OPCW. (WiFi  networks are notoriously easy to hack. If the OPCW is indeed using such  it should not be trusted with any security relevant issues.) The Russian  officials were allegedly very secretive, even cleaning out their own  hotel trash, while they, at the same, time carried laptops with private  data and even taxi receipts showing their travel from a GRU headquarter  in Moscow to the airport. Like in the Skripal/Novichok saga the Russian  spies are, at the same time, portrayed as supervillains and hapless  amateurs. Real spies are neither.
_
_The U.S. Justice Department added to the onslaught by issuing new indictments (pdf) against alleged GRU agents dubiously connected to several alleged hacking incidents. As none of those Russians will ever stand in front of a U.S. court the broad allegations will never be tested._
_The anti-Russian campaign came just in time for yesterday's NATO Defense Minister meeting at which the U.S. 'offered' to use its malicious cyber tools under NATO disguise:

__Katie Wheelbarger, the principal deputy assistant defense  secretary for international security affairs, said the U.S. is  committing to use offensive and defensive cyber operations for NATO  allies, but America will maintain control over its own personnel and  capabilities.

__If the European NATO allies, under pressure of the propaganda  onslaught, agree to that, the obvious results will be more U.S. control  over its allies' networks and citizens as well as more threats against Russia.

__NATO's chief vowed on Thursday to strengthen the alliance's  defenses against attacks on computer networks that Britain said are  directed by Russian military intelligence, also calling on Russia to  stop its "reckless" behavior.

__The allegations against Russia over nefarious spying operations and sockpuppet campaigns are highly hypocritical. The immense scale  of U.S. and British spying revealed by Edward Snowden and through the  Wikileaks Vault 7 leak of CIA hacking tools is well known. The Pentagon runs large social media manipulation campaigns. The British GHCQ hacked Belgium's largest telco network to spy on the data of the many international organizations in Brussels. 
_
_International organizations like the OPCW have long been the target  of U.S. spies and operations. The U.S. National Security Service (NSA)  regularly hacked the OPCW since at least September 2000:

__According to last week's Shadow Brokers leak, the NSA  compromised a DNS server of the Hague-based Organization for the  Prohibition of Chemical Weapons in September 2000, two years after the  Iraq Liberation Act and Operation Desert Fox, but before the Bush  election.

__It was the U.S. which in 2002 forced out the head of the OPCW because he did not agree to propagandizing imaginary Iraqi chemical weapons:
_
_José M. Bustani, a Brazilian diplomat who was unanimously  re-elected last year as the director general of the 145-nation  Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, was voted out of  office today after refusing repeated demands by the United States that  he step down because of his "management style." No successor has been  selected.

__The U.S. arranged the vote against Bustani by threatening to leave  the OPCW. Day's earlier 'Yosemite Sam' John Bolton, now Trump's National  Security Advisor, threatened to hurt José Bustani's children to press him to resign:

__"I got a phone call from John Bolton  it was first time I  had contact with him  and he said he had instructions to tell me that I  have to resign from the organization, and I asked him why," Bustani  told RT. "He said that [my] management style was not agreeable to  Washington." 
...
 Bustani said he "owed nothing" to the US,  pointing out that he was appointed by all OPCW member states. Striking a  more sinister tone, Bolton said: "OK, so there will be retaliation. Prepare to accept the consequences. We know where your kids are."_ _According to Bustani, two of his children were in New York at the time, and his daughter was in London.

__Russia's government will need decades of hard work to reach the scale of U.S./UK hypocrisy, hacking and lying."_

----------


## SKkin

From: 
*
Behind the Anglo American War on Russia
*Behind the Anglo American War on Russia




> Recently the US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Eurasia,  Wess Mitchell, testified to the Senate where he candidly revealed the  true reasons for current Washington and London campaigns and sanctions  against Russia. It has nothing to do with faked allegations of US  election interference; it has nothing to do with poorly-staged false  flag poisoning of the Russian Skripals. It’s far more fundamental and  takes us back to the era before the First World War more than a century  ago.





> “Contrary to the hopeful assumptions of previous administrations,  Russia and China are serious competitors that are building up the  material and ideological wherewithal to contest US primacy and  leadership in the 21st Century. It continues to be among the foremost  national security interests of the United States to prevent the  domination of the Eurasian landmass by hostile powers. The central aim  of the administration’s foreign policy is to prepare our nation to  confront this challenge by systematically strengthening the military,  economic and political fundaments of  American power.”


more at the link...

----------


## harrybarracuda

Ah the old OhOh "But what about..." irrelevant shite again.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> From: 
> *
> Behind the Anglo American War on Russia
> *Behind the Anglo American War on Russia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more at the link...


What does this have to do with Putin sending out assassins to kill people?

Ah....

So your source doesn't believe Oil comes from biological material and that vaccines were invented to reduce the population.


Oooooo Kkkkkkk.

----------


## SKkin

> What does this have to do with Putin sending out assassins to kill people?


It's about the real reasons for the "Anglo-American" campaign against Russia...




> Wess Mitchell, testified to the Senate where he  candidly revealed the true reasons for current Washington and London  campaigns and sanctions against Russia. It has nothing to do with faked  allegations of US election interference; it has nothing to do with  poorly-staged false flag poisoning of the Russian Skripals.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It's about the real reasons for the "Anglo-American" campaign against Russia...


No it's not, it's about how some whackjob interpreted what the bloke said to fit his looney tunes fairy story, you daft git.

----------


## Pragmatic

These supposed Russian spies are really fooking dumb. If it is true?




> *Revealed: Second novichok poisoning suspect is unmasked as Russian military doctor after he used his own address at GRU spy agency HQ and real date of birth for his undercover identity*




Source:  Daily Mail and other newspapers Harry..

----------


## Klondyke

^Then, no need for MI6, just any amateur investigator, e.g. Belingcat  (why always only this one?) can discover who dunnit...

----------


## Little Chuchok

Russian Secret Service: Why do you want to join the Secret Service?
Candidate: Well...
Russian Secret Service: Can you keep a secret?
Candidate: Yes.
Interviewer: Right, well you're in then.....


Apologies Monty Python

----------


## harrybarracuda

One would almost think Putin is saying to the world "Look, you can't stop me doing what I want and I don't care"...

----------


## misskit

*Russian federal agents allegedly arrest Border Service official for selling information from the closed database that helped identify the Salisbury suspects*Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) has reportedly carried out a massive review of the private detectives and state officials who allegedly sell information from closed databases. A source familiar with the situation told the news agency Rosbalt that the FSB has conducted more than 60 raids in the investigation.


The same source claims that the FSB has arrested a State Border Service employee in Russia’s Northwestern Federal District and a staff member at a Federal Tax Service branch. “The first [suspect] supposedly sold information about foreign travel by [Alexander] Petrov, [Ruslan] Boshirov, and several others,” the source told Rosbalt, clarifying that the arrests, however, are tied to leaking information about other persons, not the “Salisbury tourists.”


The British authorities identified Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov as the men likely responsible for poisoning double agent Sergey Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury, England, this March. Investigative reporters at Bellingcat and The Insider used extracts from different closed databases to compile evidence that these two suspects are actually two Russian military intelligence agents named Alexander Mishkin and Anatoly Chepiga.


https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/10/30...sbury-suspects

----------


## Klondyke

*Never ending story

Russia to face 'more draconian' US sanctions over Skripal poisoning
*6 Nov 2018Moscow failed to show it had given up chemical weapons
Sanctions could include diplomatic, trade or banking ties

Russia faces new US sanctions after failing to take steps to prove it has ended its chemical weapons programme in the wake of the Skripal nerve agent attack in the UK in March, the state department has said.

It is unclear what form of sanctions the US will impose but US officials have warned that they would be substantial, potentially affecting diplomatic relations, trade or banking ties.

The US imposed preliminary sanctions on security-related technology to Russia in August, in a signal that it accepted the UKs assessment that Russian military intelligence was behind the use of the novichok agent in Salisbury against Sergei Skripal, a former Russian spy and his daughter Yulia.

Dawn Sturgess died in July after handling a small bottle contaminated with the nerve agent apparently discarded by Skripals attackers. Her partner, Charlie Rowley, was also taken ill after being exposed to the nerve agent.

Under the Chemical and Biological Weapons Control and Warfare Elimination (CBW) Act, the Kremlin was then told it had 90 days to take remedial measures to include a formal renunciation of chemical and biological weapon use and admission to suspect sites of international inspectors.

On Tuesday, state department spokeswoman Heather Nauert issued a statement saying we could not certify that the Russian Federation met the conditions required by [the CBW Act].

The department is consulting with Congress regarding next steps as required 90 days after the initial determination on August 6, 2018, Nauert said in her statement. We intend to proceed in accordance with the terms of the CBW Act, which directs the implementation of additional sanctions.

She did not specify the sanctions under consideration, but under the legislation the president is obliged to impose three sets of sanctions from a menu of six, which includes restrictions on development assistance, bank loans, general non-food imports and exports, downgrading diplomatic relations and suspending landing rights for the national airline, Aeroflot.

At the time the preliminary sanctions were imposed, a senior administration official said the second round would be more draconian than the first round.

Its designed to be a sliding scale of pressure, the official said.

The new measures will be additional to already substantial US sanctions against Russia, including those imposed in 2014 for its military intervention in Ukraine, and the 2012 Magnitsky Act, which targets the oligarchs supporting and working on behalf of the Kremlin.

Congress is meanwhile considering its own sanctions bills, which could also have far-reaching effects on the Russian economy. They include the Defending American Security from Kremlin Aggression Act, which would put restrictions on Americans buying Russian sovereign debt and curb investments in Russian energy projects.

Russia denies responsibility for the Skripal attack, suggesting  among other options  that it was a false flag provocation by the UK intelligence services. Moscow denounced the first set of sanctions under the CBW act as illegal.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ipal-poisoning

----------


## SKkin

> The US imposed preliminary sanctions on security-related technology to Russia in August, in a signal that it accepted the UK’s assessment that Russian military intelligence was behind the use of the novichok agent in Salisbury against Sergei Skripal

----------


## harrybarracuda

Probably shouldn't have tried hacking the OPCW eh?

You don't do shit like that unless you're guilty.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Probably shouldn't have tried hacking the OPCW


     Alleged.     ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Alleged.


Ah yes, "we are Russian tourist come to visit historic OPCW office from parked car packed with WiFi espionage equipments".

 :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> car packed with WiFi espionage equipments".


 That is what you were told, so it must be correct.    :smiley laughing:

----------


## Dragonfly

no, Harry saw all the forensics evidence, and he was there  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That is what you were told, so it must be correct.


Ah, so in your mind, the Dutch arrested four innocent Russian tourists and sent them home because they........

----------


## OhOh

> Dutch arrested four innocent Russian tourists


As you post, the truth is always obvious.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> As you post, the truth is always obvious.


"We are Russian tourist come make beautiful picture of historical OPCW building with complicate camera equipments".

----------


## OhOh

Wow 'arry some photos of electronic devices. Taken in an electronics shop. Now what is the relevance to your position?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Wow 'arry some photos of electronic devices. Taken in an electronics shop. Now what is the relevance to your position?


Actually a photo released by the Dutch government, but don't let your little fantasy get mired in a swamp of facts.

----------


## SKkin

This song is for you 'arry...

I've been waiting for something to happen  
For a week or a month or a year  
With the blood in the ink of the headlines  
And the sound of the crowd in my ear  
You might ask what it takes to remember  
When you know that you've seen it before  
Where a government lies to a people  
And a country is drifting to war  

And there's a shadow on the faces  
Of the men who send the guns  
To the wars that are fought in places  
Where their business interest runs

----------


## Pragmatic

> Wow 'arry some photos of electronic devices. Taken in an electronics shop. Now what is the relevance to your position?





> Actually a photo released by the Dutch government, but don't let your little fantasy get mired in a swamp of facts.


 Harry if they'd have caught them, as you claim, then the definitive proof would be to be to photograph them next to the evidence. There is no link but their say so.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Harry if they'd have caught them, as you claim, then the definitive proof would be to be to photograph them next to the evidence. There is no link but their say so.


You really are a dim fucker sometimes.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> This song is for you 'arry...
> 
> I've been waiting for something to happen  
> For a week or a month or a year  
> With the blood in the ink of the headlines  
> And the sound of the crowd in my ear  
> You might ask what it takes to remember  
> When you know that you've seen it before  
> Where a government lies to a people  
> ...



Trying to debate with youtube videos of corny songs.

You poor sod.

----------


## harrybarracuda

I wonder if his failure was rewarded with a nice cup of Putin tea?




> The head of Russian military intelligence agency GRU, General Igor Korobov, has died at the age of 62, Russia's defence ministry says.
> 
> General Korobov, who took up the post in 2016, is said to have died after "a serious and long illness" on Wednesday.
> 
> The GRU was this year linked to a nerve agent attack in Britain on ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter.
> 
> General Korobov is understood to have faced criticism by Russian officials over the failure of the operation.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46298959

----------


## Klondyke

^Highlighted by an expert on "conspiracy theories":
If somebody dies 62 years old it is surely a "highly likely" ...

----------


## Dragonfly

harry into conspiracy theories ? no, that can't be  :Smile:

----------


## Hugh Cow

I see the Putin worship is strong on this thread. I wonder if Oh Klon and Neo have any embarrassment at all after posting so many denials and red herrings, with a total lack of anything remotely resembling objectivity when their hero is implicated, or do they now believe the perpetrators were just 2 innocent russian Cathedral nerd tourists set up by MI5 and the CIA.

----------


## Pragmatic

On the BBC this morning they announced that they'd found more Novichok. Enough to kill thousands of people.

Now why bring that amount of nerve agent just to try and kill 2 people???? Plus the perfume bottle that the 2 tramps found. Is there such a thing as death from an overdose of nerve agent?    :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> On the BBC this morning they announced that they'd found more Novichok. Enough to kill thousands of people.
> 
> Now why bring that amount of nerve just to try and kill 2 people???? Plus the perfume bottle that the 2 tramps found. Is there such a thing as death from an overdose of nerve agent?


They also announced that the policeman who was hospitalised after the original attack was wearing a hazmat suit.

Not much of a fucking hazmat suit if you ask me.

----------


## harrybarracuda

https://eztv.io/ep/1289849/panorama-...tv-x264-creed/

----------


## Pragmatic

> They also announced that the policeman who was hospitalised after the original attack was wearing a hazmat suit.


 Why was the copper wearing an 'hazmat' suit at the time he attended? As I don't recall that they knew the Skripal's had been contaminated until later. I could be wrong.

----------


## Klondyke

^Because it was "highly likely" (and clear and present danger) once approaching a former Russian spy...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Why was the copper wearing an 'hazmat' suit at the time he attended? As I don't recall that they knew the Skripal's had been contaminated until later. I could be wrong.


You are. That's not unusual.

 :Smile: 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46290989

----------


## OhOh

> any embarrassment at all after posting so many  denials and red herrings, with a total lack of anything remotely  resembling objectivity


My embarrassment is that the public, you and some others here, still are willing to fall for this cock and bull story, with no proven facts other than the current UK PM's assertion that "it is highly likely".




> Why was the copper wearing an 'hazmat' suit at the time he attended


I presume you mean by "attending", you are referring to his contact with a man and a woman in distress, on a park bench, on the afternoon, in sleepy Salisbury? 

At that point in time the "local bobby" heroically was assisting a couple, being sick and unconscious and "just happened" to be passing. He presumably went to find any id, as every local bobby does in such unusual cases.

He subsequently "developed" a deadly chemical weapon reaction and I suspect was never in contact with the two distressed Russians. 

Unless of course the "local copper's" real identity is being withheld, he was not an off duty policeman, but a government watcher of a known double agent who may, because of his Russian daughters visit, was "of interest".




> once approaching a former Russian spy...


And every other drunk/druggie in the early afternoon in the UK.  :Smile: 




> You are. That's not unusual.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46290989


You know perfectly well the only time the "local copper" attended/had physical contact with the pair was on the park bench.

Where in your link does it mention the "local copper's" dress in the park, where the two Russians were vomiting and unconscious?

_"Det Sgt Bailey was admitted to Salisbury District Hospital, where  doctors tried to find the right combination of drugs to fight the poison  in his body.

__At the same time, scientists at the Defence Science  and Technology Laboratory - at nearby Porton Down - worked around the  clock to find out what had poisoned him and the Skripals._ 

_Doctors had to break the news to Det Sgt Bailey that he had been poisoned with Novichok.  

__Intensive care doctors  at Salisbury hospital were faced with something they had not dealt with  before and, according to Dr Duncan Murray, there was "a very real  expectation" all three could die."_

Your story seems to point, officially anyway, he would not have known. Being a "local copper" and going home to contaminate his loving wife and children after allegedly wearing a hazmat suit. Hence the heartbreaking giving up all their personal items, their house, their cars.

What syrup are you drinking today? The story has more holes than a Swiss Cheese.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I presume you mean by "attending", you are referring to his contact with a man and a woman in distress, on a park bench, on the afternoon, in sleepy Salisbury?


That's your problem. You "presume" things that are simply fantasy without ever checking any facts.

It is quite clearly stated:




> Det Sgt Bailey came into contact with the nerve agent after being sent to the Skripals' home, where it had been sprayed on the door handle.


"Facts" to you are any old fairy tale bullshit you read on your whackjob websites.

You're a bit of a fucking simpleton really.

----------


## OhOh

^But not at the park bench eh?





> Det Sgt Bailey came into contact with the nerve agent after being sent to the Skripals' home, where it had been sprayed on the door handle.


Which nobody knew about at the time. 

Who sent him and why? Do all "local coppers" have hazmat suits in their detective's cars? Or did the "local copper" sniff a easy case to solve? 

Did any neighbour ask him what he was doing, did he have his blue light flashing and put up the obligatory black and yellow tape? Just so no innocent civilians would be poisoned by the lethal chemical weapon from Russia. Where upon coming out in his "hazmat suit/detective inspector's police  issue gloves"  - which leave no fingerprints, unseen by any neighbours,  he wasn't decontaminated but went home to tea with his wife and kids,  sat down to tea, watched some TV, bathed his kids and bonked his wife.

As you do after a hazmat search, with no decontamination, as a "local copper".

I suppose it being sleepy Salisbury, a few miles from the UK Chemical weapons lab, all the "local coppers" all have special faulty decontamination gear in their armed response, vehicles. 

The story seems to be that when he was in hospital, after the alleged visit to the house, the doctors and UK chemical weapons lab were still investigating the substance.  



Yet another hole in your cheese.

keep em coming 'arry.

 :rofl:

----------


## Pragmatic

> Det Sgt Bailey came into contact with the nerve agent after being sent to the Skripals' home, where it had been sprayed on the door handle.


 He went to the Skripal's house after attending to them in the park. How did he know where they lived and who sent him? 

In the park the Skripal's were contaminated but the copper didn't get the contamination there. How do they know that for sure? Oh yeah, cuz the government said so.

----------


## Klondyke

Still highlighting the Skripals' "murder" in the view of Khashoggi murder? For this somebody has to have a good stomach.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Det Sgt Bailey came into contact with the nerve agent after being sent to the Skripals' home, where it had been sprayed on the door handle.


 When you go to someones house you either press the bell or knock the door but it seems this copper manhandled the door handle.     :smiley laughing:

----------


## OhOh

> For this somebody has to have a good stomach.


The Russians are so barbaric.

Russian weapons of choice, an umbrella or a perfume.

*Go gentle into that good night*

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Waffle waffle.

See post 1472 for more details before you waffle some more.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Waffle waffle.

----------


## SKkin

One wonders what role the 77th Brigade and JTRIG has played in this story...



Inside the British Army's secret information warfare machine
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/insi...rfare-military




> JTRIG also boasted  an arsenal of 200 info-weapons, ranging from in-development to fully  operational. A tool dubbed Badger allowed the mass delivery of email.  Another, called Burlesque, spoofed SMS messages. Clean Sweep would  impersonate Facebook wall posts for individuals or entire countries.  Gateway gave the ability to artificially increase traffic to a  website. Underpass was a way to change the outcome of online polls.
> 
> They had operational targets across the globe:  Iran, Africa, North Korea, Russia and the UK. Sometimes the operations  focused on specific individuals and groups, sometimes the wider regimes  or even general populations.


Guess it's not secret anymore.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

> Guess it's not secret anymore.


Not a lady to be seen.

Is the publishing of their existence not double edged? Is it an attempt to distort the reality we all cling helplessly too?





> See post 1472 for more details before you waffle some more.


I don't need to watch the UK government propaganda channel thanks.

Aimed at the British _"intelligentsiya".




"In Russia, before the Bolshevik Revolution (1917) the term intelligentsiya described the status class of educated people whose cultural capital (schooling, education, enlightenment) allowed them to assume practical political leadership."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligentsia_

----------


## harrybarracuda

I know you can't bear to hear anyone contradict your state propaganda channels. Very predictable.

 :Smile:

----------


## NamPikToot

> One wonders what role the 77th Brigade and JTRIG has played in this story...


Would you like me to ask Chris when i see him next?

----------


## SKkin

^Ask him why Carl blew their cover...

----------


## NamPikToot

> ^Ask him why Carl blew their cover...


77th isn't secret

----------


## SKkin

^So it's another misleading headline then?

Imagine that...

----------


## NamPikToot

> ^So it's another misleading headline then?
> 
> Imagine that...


SKkin, likely. The cyber specialists are GCHQ who would work in conjunction with both MI6 & 5 as the threat originated outside the UK and took place inside. 77 are not in the same league and their focus is in support of Army activity, they maybe called upon but not in anyway prime in this. The uk front line commands Navy,Army, RAF are developing cyber capabilities but its a developing force and its all still yet to be worked through how they all work with the existing agencies - sounds crazy, you'd think there would be a strategic co-ordinated plan but...........ps none of this is secret. pps Army involved as the activity took place in the UK and on the edge of Salisbury Plain - their manor and responsibility for home threat response. I imagine 77 + other cyber units would use the attack as a training/conemp/learning opportunity also, I imagine.

----------


## SKkin

> their manor and responsibility for home threat response.


Similar to here after 9/11 and the Patriot Act...and just so you know, I am not a fan of all that's transpired since. I don't like what we've become. Or maybe that's what we always were.

To me the bigger threat to "We the People" resides in the Money centers(banking), Washington D.istrict of C.riminals and our war machine. IMO a lot of these "threats" are ginned up for their profit potential for members of the three aforementioned entities.

I view this Skripal thing as a UK version of a ginned up threat. Same with the "Russian interference in US 2016 election" garbage. US/UK jointly trying to revive the Cold War. Profitable for some...certainly not the taxpayers though.

Of course according to 'arry I'm a wackjob. So nevermind me, I'm just a simple man.  :Smile:

----------


## NamPikToot

> One wonders what role the 77th Brigade and JTRIG has played in this story...
> 
> 
> 
> Inside the British Army's secret information warfare machine
> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/insi...rfare-military
> 
> 
> 
> Guess it's not secret anymore.


Also, that's a US unit in the photo. The give away(s) is the camo, slim collar, hair cut + its not 77s badge and their desktops are not 20 yrs old :Smile: .

----------


## SKkin

> Also, that's a US unit in the photo.


I know...the pic is not from the Wired.uk article.  :Wink:

----------


## NamPikToot

> Of course according to 'arry I'm a wackjob. So nevermind me, I'm just a simple man.


SKkin - Arry's a womble, he's like bsnub on the US threads - any opinion that doesn't agree with their ideas or what they've gleaned from fact, read news sources, ensures you get an expletive laden counter post - its fukin boring which is why i go at them. They have room for one opinion only and those of us older, more worldly wise or intelligent are dismissed as idiots, imbeciles or as Arry would put it Fu.King Wa_kers.

The world is getting more stretched and those in power or with significant resources will do all they can to hold on to it - the traditional moral boundaries are being blurred and i can only see this going one way - you can't keep expanding demand against a finite supply - the crunch will come = in what form, effect and how soon is a matter of how long politicians can juggle.

The forum is about opinions - you have one which should be no less valid so fuk em.

----------


## Pragmatic

> One wonders what role the 77th Brigade and JTRIG has played in this story...


 Your picture is of US military personnel.      :Confused:  


> The *77th Brigade* is a British Army formation,

----------


## SKkin

> Your picture is of US military personnel.


See post #1495. I was a little misleading myself. My bad...

----------


## tomcat

> The cyber specialists are GCHQ who would work in conjunction with both MI6 & 5 as the threat originated outside the UK and took place inside. 77 are not in the same league and their focus is in support of Army activity, they maybe called upon but not in anyway prime in this. The uk front line commands Navy,Army, RAF are developing cyber capabilities but its a developing force and its all still yet to be worked through how they all work with the existing agencies - sounds crazy, you'd think there would be a strategic co-ordinated plan but...........ps none of this is secret. pps Army involved as the activity took place in the UK and on the edge of Salisbury Plain - their manor and responsibility for home threat response. I imagine 77 + other cyber units would use the attack as a training/conemp/learning opportunity also


...sounds like a blurb from a Frederick Forsyth thriller...



> I don't like what we've become. Or maybe that's what we always were.


...I would have disagreed...then tRump was elected...

----------


## OhOh

> anyone contradict your state propaganda


I will assume you are referring to the UK State propaganda outlet, the BBC. 

The "anyone" certainly isn't you, as you are unable to post more than the word "waffle".

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I will assume you are referring to the UK State propaganda outlet, the BBC. 
> 
> The "anyone" certainly isn't you, as you are unable to post more than the word "waffle".


You're to stupid to understand the meaning of "State propaganda".

Let alone to grasp the basic concept that there are other independent media outlets such as Sky, ITN, etc.

So yes, you're waffling again.

----------


## SKkin

> ...I would have disagreed...then tRump was elected...


I got that way long before Trump came along. Cults of personalites mean squat to me.


This Rob Slane fellow makes some interesting observations...

Trial by Propaganda

excerpts:




> Why, if the boot had been on the other foot, so to speak, and this  sort of thing had been put out by Russian state television, I would find  it hard to know whether to laugh or cry at it. But the one thing I  would be certain of is that it was clear evidence that that country was  slipping back into the dark days of Soviet propaganda, only using modern  technology to make it all feel a lot more cool and spangly.
> 
> Let me say firstly that the worst thing by a country mile in the  section I’ve watched so far came right at the very beginning, where the  presenter, Jane Corbin, made the following statement:
> 
> 
> “Now, moving images, never seen before of the Russian *assassins* just after the attack [my emphasis].”
> 
> I don’t know whether Mrs Corbin has any idea of what she just did, or  whether she even cares, but in one foul swoop she completely undermined  the concepts of due process, and innocent until proven guilty, and she  also made it impossible for the two suspects to ever receive a fair  trial, were it ever to come to that.
> 
> ...


. . .




> It’s like they had to keep reminding us of just how deadly the substance  is. But if it is unique in its ability to poison individuals at quite  low concentrations, if it is 10X more toxic than the next deadliest  nerve agent, and if the tiniest dose can be fatal why — a reasonably  person might ask — are the Skripals and Nick Bailey still alive? Why is  the BBC reinforcing to us just how deadly a substance it is, then in the  next breath telling us all about the 65-year-old diabetic who survived,  even thought he must have got much more than a tiny dose, since he  apparently left trails of it all over the City (though interestingly,  not at the duck feed, the car park meter, or the door handles at Zizzis  and The Mill). And I’m afraid that the explanation of “excellent medical  care will not do.” By their own admission, the hospital staff did not  know how to treat it for a long while after the poisoning. And so either  “Novichok” is not as deadly as they kept making out on the  programme. Or “Novichok” was not used. Simple as that. But you can’t  have it both ways. If you can square that particular circle, good luck.  There’s a highly paid job out there for you somewhere.


------------------------

BBC obfuscating under color of law?


Freedom of Information request –RFI20181319


page two thru four of the BBC waffling twaddle at the link...

----------


## SKkin

> there are other independent media outlets such as Sky, ITN, etc.


Are they like the "independent" media outlets here in the US that all basically stick to the same stories/narratives provided to them by State press releases?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Are they like the "independent" media outlets here in the US that all basically stick to the same stories/narratives provided to them by State press releases?


Only in your tiny little head.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I got that way long before Trump came along. Cults of personalites mean squat to me.
> 
> 
> This Rob Slane fellow makes some interesting observations...
> 
> Trial by Propaganda


It's no wonder you lot waffle so much if you quote waffle like this.

The only point to ponder is that these little lefty bloggers *invariably* neglect to mention that Russia refuses to allow said assassins to even be questioned, let alone put in front of a jury.

They probably get upset when people make memes ridiculing the killers' claims that they were in Salisbury for "tourism".

----------


## Pragmatic

> these little lefty bloggers *invariably* neglect to mention that Russia refuses to allow said assassins to even be questioned


 That said, it applies to all with diplomatic immunity. It's not a one way street.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That said, it applies to all with diplomatic immunity. It's not a one way street.


It has nothing to do with diplomatic immunity.

----------


## OhOh

> *invariably* neglect to mention that Russia refuses to allow said assassins to even be questioned, let alone put in front of a jury.


If and when the UK government and its agencies, provide Russian authorities with evidence conversant to the two Russian citizens, the Russian authorities will review and decide if the two may be questioned.

Unfortunately the UK government and it's agencies have yet to provide Russia with any replies to it's requests for information only continue to publish the "highly likely" excuse.

Your accusation is a total fabrication and you have yet to supply any evidence to suggest, in any way, it is true.

----------


## Pragmatic

> It has nothing to do with diplomatic immunity.


Sorry, I see what you're on about now.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> If and when the UK government and its agencies, provide Russian authorities with evidence conversant to the two Russian citizens, the Russian authorities will review and decide if the two may be questioned.
> 
> Unfortunately the UK government and it's agencies have yet to provide Russia with any replies to it's requests for information only continue to publish the "highly likely" excuse.
> 
> Your accusation is a total fabrication and you have yet to supply any evidence to suggest, in any way, it is true.


Unfortunately Britain doesn't have an extradition treaty with Russia because Putin would never let his minions face justice for their crimes.

As for "requests for information", Russia's rather obvious fishing expeditions have one purpose, and it isn't to allow them to decide if they are going to send their hired killers for trial; it's to try and conceal their crimes and to reveal the inner workings of the British security services. They really must be a bit stupid. It's a bit like their feeble attempts to steal the contents of OPCW servers.

----------


## OhOh

Thanks for your opinion.

----------


## Klondyke

*Novichok victim Dawn Sturgess's parents tell of their anger and hurt 

*The parents of the woman who died in the Wiltshire novichok poisonings have broken their silence to express their anger and hurt at losing their daughter in an extraordinary international incident and say they believe there could be more of the nerve agent yet to be found.

Speaking as the first anniversary of the poisonings nears, Stan and Caroline Sturgess also revealed their concerns that the UK authorities chose to settle the former Russian spy Sergei Skripal in Salisbury, exposing residents to risk.

The couple told the Guardian they still had many unanswered questions and called for more clarity from the British government about the poisonings. They also spoke passionately about their sense of injustice that Dawn, a mother of three from a very respectable family, was unfairly portrayed as a homeless drug user.
---
The couple said they did not hate Russia, which has been accused by the British government of carrying out the attack. “I can’t take it personally,” said Caroline, a retired civil servant. Stan added: “If they’d targeted Dawn specifically, it would be different.” He said of the Skripals’ alleged attackers: “I don’t care if they are arrested or put in prison.”

But he continued: “I want justice from our own government. What are they hiding? I don’t think they have given us all the facts. If anyone, I blame the government for putting Skripal in Salisbury.”

Read more 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...anger-and-hurt

----------


## Klondyke

So many questions lingering, however, some (please no names here) have a clue on each... *

Britain puts new roof on Skripal House of Horrors 
*(by George Galloway) 4 March 2019

A scaffolder works at the site of former spy Sergei Skripal's house, in Salisbury, Britain

In 12 months of shifting sands, one thing remains as its original foundations: the British state narrative on Salisbury stands as a castle in the air.

One year from the dastardly fate of Sergei and Yulia Skripal, no one is a step forward on what happened to them, how, why, or of course where they are.

One year ago, a nerve agent was allegedly sprayed onto their front doorknob. One year later, their house needs a new roof as a result. And why the roof? And why only the roof?

I don't know what happened to the stricken pair but then, neither do you, however much you've followed the story in Britain's mass media. In fact, the more you've read, the more confused you're likely now to be.

There are some things I do know, however.

The first is that the Russian state had as little to gain from attacking this pair in broad daylight on a Salisbury street with a signature Soviet-developed weapon, 'novichok,' as I said at the time.

It was exactly 100 days before the World Cup, just days before President Putin's re-election. If – and it's a big if – the Russian state wanted to kill the Skripals, many things would've been different.

Firstly, they would've been dead. Yulia would've been dead in Russia where she lived. And Sergei would've been dispatched at a less sensitive time by rather more reliable, less identifiable means, and by rather less comical killers.

The killers would not have flown directly from and back to Moscow. They would not have entrusted their egress to the Sunday service of Wiltshire public transport. They would not have smiled up at every CCTV camera they could find.

They would not have stayed at a downscale small hotel in East London, they would not have smoked drugs there, and they would not have noisily entertained a prostitute in their room. They would not have left traces of their nerve agent in their hotel room. They would not have spent a mere hour scoping Salisbury the day before the alleged poisoning of the Skripals. Nor would they have returned by public transport to London for their sex and drug party, only to retrace their steps by public transport the next day.

If they were going to kill a man and his daughter, they would not have trusted nerve agent on a doorknob when there was no conceivable way of knowing who's hand would touch it. Yulia? Sergei? The milkman? Any Tom, Dick or Harry in the street (or any of their children)?

If they were going to smear nerve agent on a doorknob, they would've done it in the dark – not at noon the next day, when anyone or any camera could watch them doing so, yet no one did. Quite apart from the salient fact that by noon the victims had already left the house never to return to it.

If the Skripals were merely victims in this case, why were both of their phones switched off in the hours between leaving their home and their afternoon repast. How did they manage to happily feed ducks in the park with bread between drinks and lunch, and share that bread with a local child – but neither child nor ducks suffered any ill effects?

If they left home early that morning, why were no signs of illness observed until after the pub and the restaurant at least five hours later? If the roof of the Skripals' house has to be replaced, why not the roof of the restaurant? If Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey was affected, why wasn't the first responder? How come the first responder turned out to be a most senior British Army nurse?


First responder in Skripal poisoning turns out to be Britain’s most senior military nurse. Colonel Alison McCourt.

Why did the police wait months before publishing the likenesses of the two chief suspects?

If the Skripals were merely victims, why have they been hidden, why haven't they told us what happened?

Why was there a second bottle of perfume? How did it get into the hands of Dawn Sturgess? Why would the assassins need two bottles of perfume? Why and where did they discard the second, unopened, bottle?

Believe me, I could adumbrate 500 questions more but you'd be dropped down at your door if I did – from fatigue!

Suffice to say, there are way more questions than answers in the Skripal story. But not for the British government.

Their answers were swift and have had serious consequences for Russia, for Britain, and for the world. That they have made no effort to persuade a highly skeptical British public, relying on crude methods of information warfare instead, is a further reason why I and many others simply don't believe them.

Neither will history, if I'm any judge.

Journalism – history's first draft – is easy to purloin when most journalists haven't the time, inclination or resources to question the state – especially inclination. History books though, grind exceedingly fine.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/452961-skri...oning-britain/

(Sorry, I cannot find it on BBC...)

----------


## Klondyke

In fact, there are also others in UK who do not have a clue...

*One year on, the Skripal poisoning case is still riddled with questions that no one wants to answer

*Is the official version of events really supported by the available evidence?

One year on from events in Salisbury, an official version of what happened reigns supreme: “Russia did it.” This presumption is scandalously short on evidence and logic, but it survives thanks to some highly effective stonewalling by the British government and some apparent media compliance.

The Radio 4’s Today programme last week spoke of “a weight of evidence [against Russia] that even sceptical observers thought was pretty damning”.

Well, not so fast. Some of us “sceptical observers” are still out there, and the official account seems as inconsistent and gap-ridden as it always did – if not more so. Let’s consider, one year on, what we are supposed to believe.

---

Four months later, Dawn Sturgess, a woman completely unconnected with the case, died after apparently trying some perfume, picked up from a bin by her partner, which turned out to be novichok in disguise.

Two agents of Russia’s military intelligence service, the GRU, have been identified as suspects – thanks in part to amateur sleuths at an organisation called Bellingcat and in part to CCTV footage. They have been charged with three counts of attempted murder. They have also been charged with killing Sturgess. A third suspect was recently named, who was booked on, but failed to turn up for, the same flight out of the UK as the two GRU agents.

Salisbury is now settling back into a quieter life. The roof of Sergei Skripal’s house has been replaced, and the local police have appealed for information about where the novichok-perfume box might have been between 4 March and 27 June when Dawn Sturgess was poisoned. That is pretty much where things stand now.

So why am I sceptical? What we have here are two, possibly three, dubious-looking Russian suspects, with CCTV, passport and other ID evidence that tracks their movements. We have a motive: Russia would always want to punish a traitor, wouldn’t it? And, aside from a short and entirely scripted appearance by Yuliya, we have a reason why neither of the Skripals has been seen since, despite Russian appeals for consular access: the Skripals need protection from a state that tried to kill them; the UK has a duty to ensure their safety.

All of which might suggest that the case is closed, especially as the prospects of the Russian suspects standing trial in the UK is next to zero. Allowing the Skripal affair to fade into just another example of Russian malevolence would be a travesty, however.

A year later, beyond the knee-jerk presumption of Russian guilt, we see the very same questions that some of us raised at the start.

Why would Russia risk its reputation so close to the World Cup, when it hoped to show a friendlier face to the world? Why would Vladimir Putin jeopardise future spy exchanges by signing off on the assassination of a swapped spy? Why would Russia take eight years to take its vengeance, and choose the very time when Skripal’s daughter was visiting? Other than as a “rogue” operation, none of this made much sense a year ago, and those same doubts remain now.

There is a similar clutch of questions around the suspects. It may have been a botched operation by a branch of Russian intelligence that was losing its touch. But why did it take Bellingcat to apparently reveal the true identity of the agents? Russians must have visas to enter the UK; where did they receive them, for what purpose and in what names? There are flight manifests. The UK authorities could have known within hours who was on what flight in or out of the country.

And why, if these officers had, as we are told, such impressive records, were they staying at a dive in east London? The CCTV evidence tracking them is patchy at best, and we have seen none of the Skripals. Where were they that morning when their mobile phones were switched off? Were they in the house when the door handle was supposedly smeared?

Let’s look, too, at the UK government reaction. Why was it in such a hurry to blame Russia and orchestrate international diplomatic expulsions, when the quality of the information – at least the information so far divulged – looks so deficient? Its own scientists at Porton Down said they could not know where the novichok had come from.

Put together, these are questions that occur to most people with an interest in the case, and for which there appears to be no satisfactory answer.

And there are more, about the search and decontamination of the house, about the submission of evidence to the chemical weapons watchdog, about the tragic coda of the affair with the death of Dawn Sturgess. The fact that one of the first-responders was the Army’s chief nursing officer adds yet another intriguing footnote.

And then there is the most obvious question. Where are the Skripals? It was hinted early on that they might be given new identities and resettled in a third country. Has that happened? In a recent interview with the Russian media, the UK ambassador in Moscow, Sir Laurie Bristow, insisted they were alive, and did not wish to meet Russian representatives, but he did not say where they were.

In fact, Sir Laurie’s interview, given to the Russian news agency Interfax, repays reading in full, not least for the hope it holds out that both countries might “move on”. But one section on the Skripal case stands out. “We have put a certain amount of information out to the public in the course of the inquiry, but we have not made public everything that we know,” he said. Asked to elucidate, he added: “Of course, we have more information. As I said, that information will eventually be put in front of a court in the UK. We will not make all that information publicly available to the media, because that would prejudice a trial in the UK.”

The problem with this is that Sir Laurie knows as well as anyone that a trial is not going to happen – so this information will never see the light of day. It is therefore reasonable to ask precisely what information is being withheld, and how it would prejudice a trial that will not take place.

With officials repeating the standard line and refusing to engage with even obvious questions (citing “national security” or “intelligence” considerations, of course), others are being left to fill the gaps. Bellingcat has put itself on the map, of course, while bloggers like Rob Slane have tried to question the official narrative.

The difficulties for us sceptics do not end there, because however many questions we raise, the retort comes back: OK, so what do you think happened? And, to be honest, I don’t know.

We may never know for sure but what I feel certain of is that the official version falls some way short of the truth. We are left to piece together a narrative from what we do know. If I were to offer my own possible scenario, it would be along the following lines.

It has seemed to me that both the UK and Russia have known pretty much what happened almost from the beginning, but for reasons of intelligence, embarrassment or whatever, neither is prepared to say. In my view, it may well have been either a failed extraction exercise by the Russians to get Sergei Skripal “home”, or a successful prevention job by the UK that should never have become public.

This would help to explain why Russia’s response – to accusations, expulsions, the naming of the agents, and the “Salisbury tourism” TV interview that smacked of deliberate farce – was far less virulent than might have been expected. The UK’s official version would explain this by saying Russian reticence is simply evidence of Russian guilt. Well, maybe.

Some of the more titillating conspiracy theories link the whole episode to the US election. This version claims that Sergei Skripal was the prime source for the anti-Trump dossier compiled by ex-MI6 officer, Chris Steele. I am reluctant to go this far.

But a scenario that has Skripal wanting to return to Russia, and the UK, for whatever reason, not wanting to let him go, seems plausible. Given that the named GRU officers are unlikely ever to face trial, and that there is information – as the UK ambassador in Moscow admits – that is being withheld by the British, we may never know.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8807191.html

----------


## Pragmatic

You can't tell me that Skripal's house didn't have sophisticated alarms/cameras on entry points. Seems strange that they can obtain pictures of the, could be, assassins from insignificant places but Skripal's house security cameras fail to detect them.




> How come the first responder turned out to be a most senior British Army nurse?


 Has she ever gave an interview as to how she came to be there?

----------


## Klondyke

> Has she ever gave an interview as to how she came to be there?


(Was anybody involved ever allowed to give an interview?)

*First responder in Skripal poisoning turns out to be Britain’s most senior military nurse*
Published time: 21 Jan, 2019 10:08

Sergei and Yulia Skripal were given first aid by the British Army’s most senior nurse, who just happened to be nearby, according to a new report – adding further intrigue to the highly controversial case.
The latest development in the Salisbury poisoning affair will fuel the claims of skeptics, who don’t believe the official British narrative. UK authorities have claimed that the former double agent and his daughter were targeted by the Russian government in a bizarre failed assassination plot involving a military-grade nerve agent.

It was previously reported by British media that the first person to provide medical assistance to the Skripals after they collapsed on a bench in Salisbury was “an off-duty nurse who had worked on the Ebola outbreak in Sierra Leone.”

However, the healthcare professional turned out to be not just any nurse. She was Colonel Alison McCourt, a veteran service member who currently holds the position of chief nursing officer in the British Army.

The revelation emerged after her daughter Abigail, 16, was given a Local Hero award from Spire FM, a local radio station. According to a story broadcast by the radio last weekend, Abigail noticed that the Skripals were not well, misdiagnosed Sergei as having suffered a heart attack, and called her mom. The teen, who has first-aid training, then assisted her mother in providing CPR.

Spire FM explained why the story was kept in the dark for almost a year, saying neither of the McCourt women had wanted media attention after the two people they helped turned out to be victims of a high-profile crime that pitted the UK and Russia against each other in a bitter war of accusations and stonewalling.


SALISBURY: Teen that went to help Russian pair said first aid training she had learned at school made huge difference: https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local...psed-skripals/ …

However, Colonel McCourt, who herself was decorated for her deployment to fight Ebola in Sierra Leone, decided that her daughter also deserved an award and proposed her as a candidate.

Skeptics will say it’s a hell of a coincidence that Britain’s most senior military nurse and her family were celebrating her son’s birthday at just the right time, and in just the right place, to get involved in arguably the decade’s biggest spy scandal in Britain. Perhaps stranger things have happened…

The British military lab that studies chemical weapons also just happens to be located near Salisbury. The victims of the poison, which the UK government have called Novichok, collapsed at the same time, hours after allegedly coming into contact with the substance on the door handle of Sergei Skripal’s front door.

The supposed bungling assassins proved to be so inept that they couldn’t dispose of the highly conspicuous murder weapon in a way in which it wouldn’t be found. And all this coincidentally occurred to cause scandal and distraction just as Britain was failing to negotiate favorable terms for its exit from the EU.

https://www.rt.com/uk/449312-salisbu...er-identified/

----------


## Pragmatic

Who was the doctor? According to 2 police officers who arrived at the scene he was the only one there before them. So how does the Army nurse and her daughter fit in??? The teen daughter claims she gave the Skripal's first aid. So she must have been there before the doctor and the police. More holes, in this story, than a piece of Swiss cheese.




> “We responded on lights and sirens,” Collins said. “It only took us two minutes to get there. I drove through the pedestrianised area and over the bridge. The female [Skripal’s daughter, Yulia] was on the floor on her side. There was a member of the public, who turned out to be a doctor, helping her, maintaining her airway. I believe if that doctor hadn’t done that, she would have died.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...hock-and-pride

----------


## Pragmatic

It seems Trump gets a mention.





> Here is a theory how all this may come together. Back in 2015 the _Institute of Statecraft_ and its russophobic director Colonel Donnelly discussed how to increase sanctions on Russia. In 2016 the Steele dossier was created in an attempt to connect Trump to Russia. Steele's colleague Pablo Miller and his spy Sergei Skripal were quite likely involved in creating the dossier. The dossier was disseminated with the help of Donnelly's _Institute of Statecraft_.
> For some reason the Skripals had to be taken out. Sergei Skripal probably threatened to spill the beans about the dossier after it became public.  The highly scripted 'Novichok' incident in Salisbury was staged to remove Skripal and to smear Russia with an alleged murder attempt. Colonel McCourt, the trusted army nurse, was asked to help on the scene. After the Skripal incident, and with no evidence shown, Russia was blamed and massive sanctions followed. The _Integrity Initiative_, the propaganda arm of the _Institute of Statecraft_, analyzes the media results of the Skripal affair and continues to stoke the anti-Russia campaign.
> It might be possible that Steele's 'dirty dossier', the Skripal case and the _Integrity Initiative_ operation are unrelated. But that chance for that now tends towards zero.


https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/01/coincidence-chief-nurse-of-the-british-army-was-the-first-person-to-arrive-at-the-novichoked-skripal.html

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## Maanaam

> It seems Trump gets a mention.
> 
> 
>   [/COLOR]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/01/coincidence-chief-nurse-of-the-british-army-was-the-first-person-to-arrive-at-the-novichoked-skripal.html


Crikey, it reads like a description of the plot from a Tom Clancy novel.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It seems Trump gets a mention.
> 
> 
>   [/COLOR]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/01/coincidence-chief-nurse-of-the-british-army-was-the-first-person-to-arrive-at-the-novichoked-skripal.html


It would do, it's one of HoHo's favourite whackjob sites.

----------


## harrybarracuda

OPCW Moves to Update Banned Chemicals List

March 2019
By Alicia Sanders-Zakre

Reacting to the use of a lethal nerve agent in the United Kingdom in March 2018, the Executive Council of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) agreed on Jan. 14 to expand the list of banned chemicals defined by the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC). It was the first time a change to the treatys Schedule 1 list of the most dangerous chemicals has been approved since the 193-nation pact prohibiting chemical weapons entered into force in 1997.

The change followed a chemical attack on former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in the United Kingdom in March 2018, and the OPCWs subsequent confirmation that the chemical was a type of Novichok, a family of nerve agents. The United States and many other nations have accused Russias GRU intelligence agency of conducting the attack. (See ACT, April 2018.)

Novichok-related chemicals were not listed in the treatys Schedule 1, although the pact bans the use of any toxic chemical as a weapon, even if it is not included on that list.

Adding Novichok chemicals to Schedule 1 will strengthen the treaty by subjecting those chemicals to declaration and verification under the treaty, Canadian Ambassador to the Netherlands Sabine Nolke said on Jan. 14. The Russian mission to the Netherlands denounced the proposal as politically motivated.

Canada, the Netherlands, and the United States first proposed adding the chemicals to the treatys list in October 2018, and the 41-member OPCW Executive Council approved the proposal by consensus in January despite Russias reported disassociation with the decision. The treaty allows any party to object to the change within 90 days, and such an objection would lead to a vote by all treaty parties. If there is no objection, the change will enter into force 180 days following the January decision.

Russia submitted a proposal in late November to add five chemicals to the Schedule 1 list, but the council rejected the proposed change on Feb. 25. The OPCW Technical Secretariat determined that four of the five chemicals met its guidelines, but that the fifth may not. Russia refused to remove the fifth chemical from its proposal, according to Sumita Dixit, Canadas deputy permanent representative to the OPCW. The Russian Embassy in the Netherlands blamed the rejection of its proposal on politicized causes in a Feb. 26 press briefing. Nolke tweeted the same day that Russia wanted to distract from the use of Novichok.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019...chemicals-list

----------


## OhOh

> It would do, it's one of HoHo's favourite whackjob sites.


Which part of the quoted content in #1518 do you have a problem with?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Which part of the quoted content in #1518 do you have a problem with?


Oh I don't know, the fact that you bothered posting the utter shite at all?

 :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

*Kept in the dark: ‘Novichok’ poisoning survivor tells Russian ambassador he got NO info from UK govt

*

Amesbury Novichok incident survivor Charlie Rowley has met with Russia’s Ambassador in London seeking answers, after the UK authorities kept him in the dark about any official details of the poisoning saga for nearly a year.

“Most of the information they have, they had read in the newspapers. And I got the impression that both the family of Dawn Sturgess and that of Charlie Rowley have not been adequately informed as to what happened to the pair in Amesbury and what happened in Salisbury before,” Ambassador Alexander Yakovenko said after the meeting with Rowley.

They never received any official reports… [Charlie Rowley and his brother] had a lot of questions for us, and I was happy to answer all of them.

Whatever small information Moscow has managed to gather about the incidents, with a total lack of cooperation from the UK side, was passed on to the brothers – and most of it was a “total revelation” for them, Yakovenko said. “They are ordinary people, reading British newspapers. What could they know – only what they are offered by the press. So it’s good to have an alternative point of view and understand Russia’s line of reasoning.”

Rowley and his partner Sturgess were rushed to hospital from Amesbury on June 30, 2018. At first, police believed they might have overdosed on drugs, but then claimed that the couple was poisoned by Novichok, the same nerve agent allegedly used on Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury four months earlier. Sturgess died in the hospital more than a week later, while Rowley regained consciousness but has been left disabled, and has been kept in the dark regarding his case ever since.

Despite strong words coming from the British Prime Minister Theresa May that it was “highly likely” the Russian government was behind the attack, and multiple countries slapping Russia with sanctions based on that belief, the UK government made little to no evidence public as their secretive investigation drags on for over a year.

“It’s been a year now – and we still haven’t seen any official results,” the Russian ambassador said. “What led Charlie and his brother to contact us is precisely the fact that they haven’t been able to receive anything from the British authorities.”



What the victims’ families want first and foremost is the conclusion of the probe and some official data besides endless media speculations. With other survivors, the Skripals, gone completely off the radar, they have received so little information about the course of the investigation that, at a certain point, Dawn Sturgess’s son sent a letter to the Russian President, saying he felt let down by the UK government.

Russia categorically denies having anything to do with the events in Salisbury or Amesbury last year, repeatedly offering its expertise to the British investigation, yet all Russian requests have been stonewalled by London.

https://www.rt.com/uk/455757-novicho...ts-ambassador/

----------


## jabir

Blimey is it still the Russians? I thought HMgov buried that with a satisfied sigh at avoiding the stocks. 




> Despite strong words coming from the British Prime Minister Theresa May that it was “highly likely” the Russian government was behind the attack, and multiple countries slapping Russia with sanctions based on that belief, the UK government made little to no evidence public as their secretive investigation drags on for over a year.


 :smiley laughing: 

It's also “highly likely” that she's the most duplicitous PM since Eden, though that doesn't appear to be much of a restraint.

----------


## OhOh

Some wonder why this article and the subsequent apology from the author, has been published:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/us/politics/gina-haspel-trump.html

*Odd NYT 'Correction' Exculpates British Government And CIA From Manipulating Trump Over Skripal Novichok Incident*
_
"A piece in the New York Times showed how in March 2018 Trump  was manipulated by the CIA and MI6 into expelling 60 Russian diplomats.  Eight weeks after it was published the New York Times  'corrects' that narrative and exculpates the CIA and MI6 of that  manipulation. Its explanation for the correction makes little sense._ _On April 16 the New York Times published a report by Julian  E. Barnes and Adam Goldman about the relation between CIA Director Gina  Haspal and President Donald Trump.
_
_Gina Haspel Relies on Spy Skills to Connect With Trump. He Doesn’t Always Listen._
_
The piece described a scene in the White House shortly after the contentious Skripal/Novichok incident in Britain. It originally said (emphasis added):__
During the discussion, Ms. Haspel, then deputy C.I.A.  director, turned toward Mr. Trump. She outlined possible responses in a  quiet but firm voice, then leaned forward and told the president that  the “strong option” was to expel 60 diplomats._ _To persuade Mr. Trump, according to people briefed on the  conversation, officials including Ms. Haspel also tried to show him that  Mr. Skripal and his daughter were not the only victims of Russia’s  attack.
_
_Ms. Haspel showed pictures the British government had  supplied her of young children hospitalized after being sickened by the  Novichok nerve agent that poisoned the Skripals. She then showed a  photograph of ducks that British officials said were inadvertently  killed by the sloppy work of the Russian operatives.__
The 60 Russian diplomats were expelled on March 26 2018. Other countries only expelled a handful of diplomats over the Skripal incident. On April 15 2018 the Washington Post reported that Trump was furious about this:__
The next day, when the expulsions were announced publicly,  Trump erupted, officials said. To his shock and dismay, France and  Germany were each expelling only four Russian officials — far fewer than  the 60 his administration had decided on. The President, who seemed to  believe that other individual countries would largely equal the United  States, was furious that his administration was being portrayed in the  media as taking by far the toughest stance on Russia.
...
Growing  angrier, Trump insisted that his aides had misled him about the  magnitude of the expulsions. ‘There were curse words,’ the official  said, ‘a lot of curse words.__
In that context the 2019 NYT report about Haspel showing  Trump dead duck pictures provided by the Brits made sense. Trump was, as  he himself claimed, manipulated into the large expulsion.
_
_The NYT report created some waves. On April 18 2019 the Guardian headlined:
_
_No children or ducks harmed by novichok, say health officials

Wiltshire council clarification follows claims Donald Trump was shown images to contrary_
_The report of the dead duck pictures in the New York Times  was a problem for the CIA and the British government. Not only did it  say that they manipulated Trump by providing him with false pictures,  but the non-dead ducks also demonstrated that the official narrative of  the allegedly poisoning of the Skripals has some huge holes. As Rob  Slane of the BlogMire noted:

__In addition to the extraordinary nature of this revelation, there is  also a huge irony here. Along with many others, I have long felt that  the duck feed is one of the many achilles heels of the whole story we’ve  been presented with about what happened in Salisbury on 4th March 2018.  And the reason for this is precisely because if it were true, there would indeed have been dead ducks and sick children.
_
_According to the official story, Mr Skripal and his daughter became  contaminated with “Novichok” by touching the handle of his front door at  some point between 13:00 and 13:30 that afternoon. A few minutes later  (13:45), they were filmed on CCTV camera feeding ducks, and handing bread to three local boys, one of whom ate a piece. After this they went to Zizzis, where they apparently so contaminated the table they sat at, that it had to be incinerated._
_You see the problem? According to the official story, ducks should  have died. According to the official story children should have become  contaminated and ended up in hospital. Yet as it happens, no ducks died,  and no boys got sick (all that happened was that the boys’ parents were  contacted two weeks later by police, the boys were sent for tests, and  they were given the all clear).
__
After the NYT story was published the CIA and the British  government had to remove the problematic narrative from the record.  Yesterday they finally succeeded. Nearly eight weeks after the original  publishing of the White House scene the NYT recanted and issued a correction (emphasis. added):

__Correction: June 5, 2019_ _An earlier version of this article incorrectly described the  photos that Gina Haspel showed to President Trump during a discussion  about responding to the nerve agent attack in Britain on a former  Russian intelligence officer. Ms. Haspel displayed pictures  illustrating the consequences of nerve agent attacks, not images  specific to the chemical attack in Britain. This correction was delayed because of the time needed for research.__
The original paragraphs quoted above were changed into this:__
During the discussion, Ms. Haspel, then deputy C.I.A.  director, turned toward Mr. Trump. She outlined possible responses in a  quiet but firm voice, then leaned forward and told the president that  the “strong option” was to expel 60 diplomats._ _To persuade Mr. Trump, according to people briefed on the  conversation, officials including Ms. Haspel tried to demonstrate the  dangers of using a nerve agent like Novichok in a populated area. Ms.  Haspel showed pictures from other nerve agent attacks that showed their  effects on people.
_
_The British government had told Trump administration officials about  early intelligence reports that said children were sickened and ducks  were inadvertently killed by the sloppy work of the Russian operatives.
_
_The information was based on early reporting, and Trump  administration officials had requested more details about the children  and ducks, a person familiar with the intelligence said, though Ms.  Haspel did not present that information to the president. After this article was published, local health officials in Britain said that no children were harmed.__
So instead of pictures of dead ducks in Salisbury the CIA director  showed pictures of some random dead ducks or hospitalized children or  whatever to illustrate the effects consequences of nerve agent  incidents?

__That the children were taken to hospital but unharmed was already reported in British media on March 24 2018, before the Russian diplomats were expelled, not only after the NYT piece was published in April 2019._
_Yesterday the author of the NYT piece, Julian E. Barnes, turned to Twitter to issue a lengthy 'apology':__
Julian E. Barnes @julianbarnes - 14:52 utc - 5 Jun 2019__I made a significant error in my April 16 profile of Gina Haspel. It  took a while to figure out where I went wrong. Here is the correction:  1/9
_
_[...]
_
_The intelligence about the ducks and children were based on an early  intelligence report, according to people familiar with the matter. The  intelligence was presented to the US in an effort to share all that was  known, not to deceive the Trump administration. 7/9
_
_This correction was delayed because conducting the research to figure  out what I got wrong, how I got it wrong and what was the correct  information took time. 8/9
_
_I regret the error and offer my apology. I strive to get information  right the first time. That is what subscribers pay for. But when I get  something wrong, I fix it. 9/9
__
Barnes covers national security and intelligence issues for the Times Washington bureau. His job depends on good access to 'sources' in those circles.
_
_It is remarkable that the CIA spokesperson never came out to deny the original NYT report. There was zero visible push back against its narrative. It is also remarkable that the correction comes just as Trump is on a state visit in Britain._

_The original report was sourced on 'people briefed on the conversation'. The corrected  version is also based on 'people briefed on the conversation' but adds  'a person familiar with the intelligence'. Do the originally cited   'people' now tell a different story? Are we to trust a single 'person  familiar with the intelligence' more than those multiple 'people'? What  kind of 'research' did the reporter do to correct what he then and now  claims was told to him by 'people'? Why did this 'research' take eight  weeks?
_
_That the 'paper of the record' now corrects said 'record' solves a  big problem for Gina Haspel, the CIA/MI6 and the British government.  They can no longer be accused of manipulating Trump (even as we can be  quite sure that such manipulations happen all the time).
_
_In the end it is for the reader to decide if the original report makes more sense than the corrected one."

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/06/odd-nyt-correction-exculpates-british-government-and-cia-from-manipulating-trump-over-skripal-novich.html#comments

_One awaits the apologies from goldilocks, the reinstatement of the 60 diplomats and the removal of sanctions against Russia and it's individuals. Along with all the other governments.

----------


## Hugh Cow

I think Prag has been holidaying with OMO and Klondyke. 
Of course it is possible the two Russian agents did just decide to spend a day having a look at a cathedral, then jetted back to Russia because they were bored and the fact two ex Russians were poisoned on that same day is purely coincidental. Now where did I leave that bong.

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## Klondyke

^In fact, there has been an improvement in the propaganda: No need to spend big money for a PR company and the big heart-breaking show in Congress,  just few pictures of ducks (no lame and no Donald)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

----------


## Neverna

> _It is remarkable that the CIA spokesperson never came out to deny the original NYT report. There was zero visible push back against its narrative._


Not really remarkable. Just political expediency. The truth does not matter to them.

----------


## HermantheGerman

*Queen's Birthday Honours: MBE for Novichok clean-up officer*                 7 June 2019

A council officer involved in the  clean-up of Salisbury following the Novichok attack has been appointed  an MBE in the Queen's Birthday Honours.
Ex-Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were targeted with the nerve agent in the city in March 2018.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-48527279

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## OhOh

> were targeted with the nerve agent


Proven by a sample handed over by the UK military. :Smile:

----------


## SKkin

#ducklivesmatter

----------


## OhOh

> #ducklivesmatter


Just watched again the black mirror episode about the bees, season 3 episode 6. Worth a revisit, if not an initial viewing.

----------


## Klondyke

*No Novichok B&B for you: Authorities may buy Skripal house to prevent it from becoming a business
* 9 Jun, 2019



A local authority is considering buying the Skripal’s home in Salisbury to prevent it from being turned into a business. The house has undergone decontamination, which supposedly cleared it from the so-called Novichok nerve agent.

The plans to purchase the property were confirmed by officials with Wiltshire county council to the British media on Sunday. The idea to buy the house from the former double agent Sergei Skripal emerged after his neighbors expressed fears that it might be turned into a busy – and rather grim – business, like a B&B hotel.

“The council has committed to ensuring that the property is not used to trade on its history … and is prepared to purchase it should the owner wish to sell,” the director of the council, Alistair Cunningham said, as quoted by the Daily Mail.

Such a purchase by the council would ensure that the property would be used solely for residential purposes, the official added. It remains unclear whether anyone has sought to purchase the property, said to be worth at least £200,000, and actually live in it, given all the Novichok scare surrounding it.

The house has become the centerpiece of the whole Skripal saga, which has been dragging on for over a year already. Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were last March allegedly poisoned by the substance said to be the so-called military-grade Novichok nerve agent. British authorities squarely pinned the blame on Moscow within hours after the incident, yet failed to provide any solid proof of its involvement beyond the “highly likely” formula since then.

Russia firmly denied all the accusations and offered the UK help with the investigation, which was rejected. The whereabouts of the Skripals themselves and the conditions of their health also remain unknown.

According to the UK, the house was the ground zero of the Novichok contamination, after the alleged ‘Russian agents’ smeared – or maybe sprayed – its door handle with the dreaded nerve-agent. Forensics and military teams have been working at it for months, examining and decontaminating the property – and ultimately even dismantling its roof, which apparently absorbed the majority of the Novichok – as if it was raining from the sky.

https://www.rt.com/uk/461463-novichok-bb-skripal-house/

----------


## Pragmatic

Why the fcuk don't the government put a compulsory sale/buy on the property and demolish it? Job done.      ::chitown:: After all it was bought with tax payers money.

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## Pragmatic

> Forensics and military teams have been working at it for months, examining and decontaminating the property – and ultimately even dismantling its roof, which apparently absorbed the majority of the Novichok – as if it was raining from the sky.


 Hang on a minute. How did the NA get on the roof? If 'it was raining from the sky'(????) then what's all that about? Is there any other way for it to rain? These loons that think 2 people, not wearing protective suits and respirators, can just start spaying NA everywhere must be fcuking nuts.

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## OhOh

Possibly it's where his lab was. He had lab animals for his "experiments", along with his pet cats.

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## Pragmatic

> Possibly it's where his lab was. He had lab animals for his "experiments", along with his pet cats.


 Are you saying Skripal had a NA lab in his attic and that's where he was contaminated?

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## Klondyke

> Hang on a minute. How did the NA get on the roof?


Perhaps some residues from Tchernobyl accident - we are now reminded by Hollywood how terrible it was - forget the Three Mile Island (any movie about that? or serious causalities report?) or Fukushima (ditto?)

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## OhOh

> Are you saying Skripal had a NA lab in his attic and that's where he was contaminated?


What I am saying is that the father was a chemist, he worked on chemical  weapons creation/testing .... , had animals in cages, some guinea pigs  or similar. Along with one "pet" cat.

_"Shortly after the Russian Embassy in London posed the  question on  what happened to the animals that Sergey Skripal kept in  his Salisbury  house, the British side, first in an unnamed leak and then  as a DEFRA  comment, said that “when a vet was able to access the  property, two guinea pigs had sadly died. A cat was also found in a  distressed state and a decision was taken by a veterinary surgeon to  euthanize the animal to alleviate its suffering”."

_All  taken and destroyed at Porton Down, not at the local vets office, prior  to the knowledge or being announced,  that "it was highly likely " to  be a CW attack.

https://orientalreview.org/2018/04/0...ions-mistakes/

He was "highly likely" to have been involved in the goldilocks false  Russia claim/dossier, produced by the now infamous MI5/6 and Skripal's  UK handler. with "highly likely", his involvement was ........ 

As you can see from the 'clean-up crew" it is "highly likely", somebody knows more than has been disclosed to the locals.

Lastly neighbouring house prices are "highly likely" to have plummeted.

All of which may be "highly likely", or not.

"If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now"

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## harrybarracuda

Sorry, what fucking crackpot version are you trying to come up with now?

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## Pragmatic

> I am saying is that the father was a chemist, he worked on chemical weapons creation/testing


 I don't think so.   


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal

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## Hugh Cow

In breaking news the Russians have found the perpetrator. Apparently a whistle blower at Twining's Teas who is requesting asylum in Russia, admitted to a bad batch of Twining's tea bags. Apparently the shock from ingesting such a poor tea put both the Skripals into a Coma. Later a police officer, luckily, had only smelt the aroma emanating from the tea pot, but it was sufficient to give him severe palpitations needing hospitalisation in intensive care.

Source from htpp://Klondykefoobaredohoh@welovevlad.worlddictators.com

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## OhOh

You're gonna need a longer email address, the gentle breeze from Eurasia, Africa, South America .... is gathering momentum.

Look at the global attendees enjoying the most recent spectacle:




 :Smile:

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## Pragmatic

Bernie my hero.




> *'I'd stand in front of a machine gun to save Putin': F1 billionaire Bernie Ecclestone backs 'good guy Russian dictator' and says 'storytellers' made up novichok poisoning claims - in bizarre interview*


 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cclestone.html

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## harrybarracuda

> Bernie my hero.
> 
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cclestone.html


Putin must have paid him a whack for Sochi then.

Added: Crazy Bernie continued....




> ‘I am not a supporter of democracy. You need a dictator. As a dictator, you say; “This is what I’m going to do”. In democracy it gets watered down.’

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## Klondyke

> Putin must have paid him a whack for Sochi then.


Some people (please no names here) cannot imagine - and understand - there are other values than money...

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## OhOh

A hawk from an unobtainable supplier, a stallion with the must have blood line or a missile which can stop wars

But 'arry is still dinar, dinar, dinar focussed

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## harrybarracuda

> A hawk from an unobtainable supplier, a stallion with the must have blood line or a missile which can stop wars
> 
> But 'arry is still dinar, dinar, dinar focussed


What are you fucking babbling on about now?

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## Klondyke

July 20, 2019
*Putin refused to believe in Skripal's Poisoning by the British

*

Russian President Vladimir Putin does not believe that the former Colonel of the GRU, Sergei Skrypal, and his daughter Yulia were poisoned by British special services. The head of state told this in an interview with the American director Oliver Stone , whose transcript was published by the Kremlin press service .

The Russian leader suggested that if they really wanted to poison Skrypal, they would have brought the matter to the end. “This, in principle, is easy to do in modern conditions. There, I do not know, milligram is enough. <...> No, there is something wrong here. Maybe the scandal was just needed, ”Putin said.

Oliver Stone also asked the Russian president where Skripal is now. "I have no idea. He is a spy, he is hiding all the time, ”Putin replied. The President said that he had heard about the plans of the ex-Colonel to write a petition for returning to Russia, but he doubted that he had any information, since the former officer had already “left the cage”.

Sergey Skripal and his daughter Julia were found unconscious on a bench in the British city of Salisbury on March 4, 2018. Experts found out that they were poisoned by a nerve agent. London blamed Moscow for the incident. Russia denies involvement in the incident.

https://lenta.ru/news/2019/07/19/putin_skripal/

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## Klondyke

Lets not forget:
*Skripals poisoning: Trump agreed on a second package of sanctions against the Kremlin - media*

 On Thursday, August 1, President of the United States of America Donald Trump signed an executive decree imposing new sanctions against Russia because of the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergey Skripal and his daughter Julia in British Salisbury. 

According to The New York Times , the US president took this step in response to increased pressure from Congress to take additional measures to punish Moscow in connection with the use of nerve agent against Skripals last year. See also Russia must pay for the annexation of Crimea and the poisoning of Skripals - British Defense This is the second stage of the sanctions that the Trump Administration applies after the poisoning of the Skripals. 

The imposition of sanctions occurred the day after a telephone conversation between US Presidents Donald Trump and the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin, during which Trump focused on forest fires in Siberia. At the same time, the White House’s official statement on sanctions was not discussed.



https://www.unian.net/world/10638348...emlya-smi.html

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## Pragmatic

What a load of bollix. A drop of nerve agent the size of a pin head can kill a buffalo in 4 minutes. Atropine which is the antidote for nerve agent poisoning has too administered. And now they want us to believe this shit.   :smiley laughing: 




> Salisbury attack: Second police officer poisoned with novichok after attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal





> A second police officer was poisoned with novichok in Salisbury, investigators have revealed.
> Traces of the nerve agent were found in the Wiltshire Police officer's blood after they responded to the attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal in March 2018.
> "​The officer from Wiltshire Police, who does not wish to be identified, was involved in the response to the poisoning," a spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police said.
> "The officer displayed signs at the time of the incident that indicated exposure to a very small amount of novichok. The officer received appropriate medical treatment for this at the time and returned to duties shortly afterwards."
> 
> 
> Investigators said a sample of the officer's blood was taken at the time and analysed by the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down.
> "The forensic test  which uses a different method to that used to assess the clinical effects of nerve agent poisoning  has now given detectives confirmation that traces of novichok were in the blood sample," a spokesperson added.
> Only one police officer, DS Nick Bailey, was previously known to have been poisoned after being sent to Mr Skripal's home.
> ...

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## OhOh

> "​The officer from Wiltshire Police, who does not wish to be identified, was involved in the response to the poisoning," a spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police said.


Does he have any say in such an important matter?

Carrying the CW to and from Porton Down?

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## Klondyke

*Lest not forget

US announced new sanctions against Russia*

The US State Department announced the introduction of a second package of anti-Russian sanctions in the case of the Skripals poisoning. Sanctions will take effect on August 26, TASS reports citing the US Federal Register.

Earlier this month, it was reported that the Russian embassy in Washington saw in the adoption of new sanctions "the US neglect of the principle of the presumption of innocence," and Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova called them a frank provocation.

On August 2, US President Donald Trump signed a decree introducing a second package of restrictive measures against Russia, including a ban on the provision of non-ruble loans to the Russian government . The American side called the reason for the new sanctions that Moscow did not provide guarantees that the situation with the Skripals would not be repeated.

Former GRU colonel Sergei Skripal and his daughter Julia were found unconscious on a bench in the British city of Salisbury on March 4, 2018. Specialists found that they were poisoned with a nerve agent. London accused Moscow of what happened. Russia denies any involvement in the incident.

https://lenta.ru/news/2019/08/23/punished_again/

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## Klondyke

(Aren't they lucky to be so cared-for?)

*British Ambassador spoke about the fate of the Skripals
*
Former GRU officer Sergei Skripal and his daughter Julia , poisoned in Salisbury in 2018, are now alive and protected by the British government. This was told by the British Ambassador to Russia, Lori Bristow, his words are quoted in his Telegram channel by the editor-in-chief of the Echo of Moscow radio station Alexei Venediktov .

“They were given an invitation from the Russian embassy to meet. They did not want to accept him. And they can be understood, ”concluded the ambassador.

In early December, the German Prosecutor General's Office began its own investigation into the poisoning of Sergei and Julia Skripale. Also, the Federal Criminal Office will deal with the proceedings. In particular, it is held against two alleged employees of the GRU (now the Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Federation) Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov .

They creaked, according to the British authorities, on March 4, 2018, they were poisoned with the “Novichok” developed in the USSR as a result of an operation involving GRU employees. In London, it is believed that the attack was authorized by the top leadership of Russia. Later, the names of the alleged poisoners were named - they turned out to be some Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov. Moscow denies involvement in the Skripals.

According to an investigation by Bellingcat and The Insider, Boshirov is actually a staff member of Russian military intelligence, Colonel Anatoly Chepiga , and Petrov is a military doctor, GRU officer Alexander Mishkin .

https://lenta.ru/news/2019/12/17/skripal/

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## cyrille

*RT loses challenge against claims of bias in novichok reporting*
Kremlin-backed channel fails to overturn Ofcom ruling that also related to Syria coverage

The Kremlin-backed news channel RT has lost a high court challenge to overturn a ruling by the UK media regulator that it broadcast biased programmes relating to the novichok poisoning in Salisbury and the war in Syria.


Ofcom fined RT £200,000 after determining that seven programmes, including two presented by the former MP George Galloway, were in breach of UK broadcasting rules relating to due impartiality regarding matters of political controversy.


The programmes fronted by Galloway, a regular presenter on the 24-hour news channel, covered the poisoning of the Russian ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury two years ago. While the poisoning was blamed on Russia, Galloway cast doubt on the assertion.

Ofcom also found that four news and current affairs broadcasts addressing the US’s involvement in the Syrian conflict, and a news programme concerning the Ukrainian government’s position on Nazism and the treatment of Roma people, breached impartiality rules.


RT contended that Ofcom had not taken into account the fact that the “dominant media narrative” at the time of the poisonings – that Russia was to blame – meant it could leave that view out of its own programming. The broadcaster also said the requirement to be impartial interfered with its right to freedom of expression.


Lord Justice Dingemans, who delivered the high court judgment remotely on Friday, said the requirement for media to be balanced was paramount in the era of fake news.

“At present, the broadcast media maintains a reach and immediacy that remains unrivalled by other media,” he said. “Indeed, there is reason to consider that the need [for due impartiality] is at least as great, if not greater than ever before, given current concerns about the effect on the democratic process of news manipulation and of fake news.”


He said RT was not restricted from broadcasting its point of view on the Salisbury poisonings, the war on Syria or events in Ukraine. “The only requirement was that, in the programme as broadcast, RT provided balance to ensure that there was ‘due impartiality’,” he said.


The judge said the “wider contextual factors” that RT relied upon to challenge Ofcom’s ruling were “not relevant and would serve to undermine the legislative objectives which the due impartiality regime is designed to safeguard”.

The judge said RT’s “concept of a dominant media narrative is a nebulous one, which it would be difficult to define, let alone identify by any acceptable criteria in a particular case.”


He added: “In any event the chilling effect that such uncertainty would or might produce for the broadcast media, would, in my judgment, be likely to inhibit rather than enhance their freedom of expression.”.


The judge also said there was “no error of approach” by Ofcom in reaching its ruling. “Ofcom’s decision as to breach and sanction were well within the applicable margin,” he said.


The high court said Ofcom’s ruling that RT was in breach of the broadcasting code followed a “long and detailed appraisal which paid careful attention to the rights of RT and the need for proportionality”.


An Ofcom spokeswoman said: “Trust in news and current affairs has never been more important, and RT’s failures to preserve due impartiality were serious and repeated. So we welcome today’s judgment that our investigation and decisions were fair and proportionate.”


An RT spokesman said: “We are aware of the court’s decision, and we intend to appeal.”


RT loses challenge against claims of bias in novichok reporting | Media | The Guardian

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## harrybarracuda

RT - the network that makes Fox News look unbiased.

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## Klondyke

'arry - a creature that makes any agent provocateur look unbiased...

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## Saint Willy

> RT - the network that makes Fox News look unbiased.


To be fair, they are both cut from the same cloth.

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## harrybarracuda

> To be fair, they are both cut from the same cloth.


Except it seems Fox has a lot more influence with the bald orange twat and he often repeats bollocks that Fox has come out with earlier.

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## misskit

*Britain Names Third Russian Behind Skripal Poisoning*


British police on Tuesday said there was enough evidence to charge a third Russian man with the Novichok poisoning of former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in the English city of Salisbury in 2018. 


Counter-terrorism detectives said prosecutors had reviewed the evidence against a man identified as Sergey Fedotov for him to be charged with conspiracy to murder, attempted murder, causing grievous bodily harm, and possession and use of a chemical weapon.

Skripal and his daughter were left fighting for their lives after the attack, which soured diplomatic ties between Britain and Russia that were already strained by the 2006 radiation poisoning death of Alexander Litvinenko. 


In a letter read out after his death in a London hospital, former KGB agent Litvinenko accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of being behind the attack.

A police officer investigating the Skripal case was also left seriously ill, while a local Salisbury woman who came into contact with the weapons-grade substance later died.


Two other men have previously been identified as suspects in the poisoning. All three are said to be members of Russia's GRU military intelligence service. 


The head of special crime and counter-terrorism at the Crown Prosecution Service, Nick Price, said specialist prosecutors had reviewed the evidence against the third suspect, who is also known as Denis Sergeev.


They "have concluded that there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction and that it is clearly in the public interest to charge Sergey Fedotov," he added.


"We will not be applying to Russia for the extradition of Sergey Fedotov as the Russian constitution does not permit extradition of its own nationals." 


"Russia has made this clear following requests for extradition in other cases. Should this position change then an extradition request would be made."


Britain Names Third Russian Behind Skripal Poisoning - The Moscow Times

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## harrybarracuda

Ah yes I posted that in the Vlad the Dictator thread with the title "Filthy Russian Scum".

As well as the one about the filthy russian scum murdering Litvinenko, too.

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