#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  Coup 2014 !!!! : Military 'takes control' in Thailand

## Mid

*Military 'takes control' in Thailand*
22 May 2014

                       Thailand's army chief says the military is taking control of government.

         In a televised statement, the army chief said the military would restore order and push through political reforms. 

         The BBC's Jonah Fisher, in Bangkok, says the move appears to confirm that a full-blown coup is under way.

         The latest unrest began in the Thai capital late last year,  when then-Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra dissolved the lower house  of parliament.

         Demonstrators have blockaded several areas for months. 

         On Tuesday, the military imposed martial law. 

         Earlier this month, a court ordered Ms Yingluck's removal for alleged abuse of power.

         Thailand has faced a power struggle since Ms Yingluck's  brother, Thaksin Shinawatra, was ousted by the military as prime  minister in 2006.

bbc.com

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## Necron99

Wow, never saw that coming.........

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## Davis Knowlton

Just saw that on VOA a few minutes ago.

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## Bettyboo

& some folks will still say it's all for the good, and when LM laws are increased to include the PC, army generals and CC judges, those same folk still won't see what's happening...

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## buriramboy

A fully appointed senate with more powers, any bets on that being part of the reforms??

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## Merrimack

It's amazing how pro-coup or generally apathetic many expats here are. Guess they don't have families or give a shit about other people's rights and freedom.

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## Necron99

> It's amazing how pro-coup or generally apathetic many expats here are. Guess they don't have families or give a shit about other people's rights and freedom.


It's a cycle, many have seen it before, many times.

Corruption overload
Protests
Coup
Amart Govt.
Corruption overload
Election
Red Govt.
Rinse wash repeat.....

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## Bettyboo

Do we know who exactly the army has kidnapped?

Presumably, the dems and suthep will be released while the PT and red shirt folks will be detained...

BTW, the army are doing/supporting 100% what suthep wanted.

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## cyrille

> It's a cycle, many have seen it before, many times.


...and kind of understand their place in the country as Thais see it.

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## Gerbil

Poll shows over 75 percent of the people support martial law | Thai PBS English News

More than 75 percent of the people surveyed by Suan Dusit Poll agreed with the martial law.
Suan Dusit Poll of Ratchabhat University’s Suan Dusit campus conducted an opinion survey from a total of 1,264 people during May 20-21. The results of the survey are as follows:

-     50.93 percent said the martial law would help ease the tensioin and the army are capable of controlling the situation and preventing confrontation.

-     25.75 percent believe that martial law is a way out of the conflict and the people will feel more secured.

-     11.49 percent are worried because the martial law may affect their livelihood and render inconvenience to their travelling.

-     7.14 percent are concerned that the martial law will impact on the country’s image and stability.

-     4.66 percent are afraid that the special law may provoke resistance which may lead to more violence.

The poll showed that 75.95 percent agreed with the martial law because it would help prevent violence and people feel more secured whereas 12.34 percent said that with or without martial law the political conflict would not be resolved and protests would continue as normal.

The 11.71 percent who opposed the law said that the martial law was unjustified because there was no riot or serious violence to justify the imposition of the law. Moreover, the law will give a false impression that a coup has taken place.

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## cyrille

> More than 75 percent of the people surveyed by Suan Dusit Poll agreed with the martial law.


Yet according to merrimack any farang who isn't frothing with righteous indignation can't possibly care about the future of Thailand or even the future of their own kids?

Spare me.

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## Mid

all 1200 in total who where polled .................

spare me indeed .

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## Gerbil

^^ yep. 75% of the Thai people in favour of the military stepping in, but apparently Betty, etc. knows better and will tell us what is right for them.

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## Gerbil

> all 1200 in total who where polled .................
> 
> spare me indeed .


The usual response here whenever a thai poll is mentioned.

It's always either:

A) it was biased
B) the methodology was wrong
C) the sample size was too small.

Give it a rest will you?

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## Mr Lick

A bloodless coup exactly as in 2006 which is an improvement on the killings that have occurred on both sides over the past 6 months.

The decision to move was probably made on the back of the squabbling at yesterdays meeting.

Knight takes pawn, check! Your move Thakie  :Smile:

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## aging one

Suthep and red shirt leader have been detained or arrested as well.

Thai army chief announces military coup, troops take protest leader away

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## Bettyboo

> A bloodless coup exactly as in 2006 which is an improvement on the killings that have occurred on both sides over the past 6 months.
> 
> The decision to move was probably made on the back of the squabbling at yesterdays meeting.



Very nice of suthep to set it all up for him, he certainly earned his crust and will be well looked after...

Hilarious how this has been framed, and pointed out as such, yet some of you still buy into it like you're fresh off the boat... New appointed senators, no one man one vote, increased LM and security and media laws, increased military spending, decreased spending on education, no election, massive propaganda campaign for ahem... &, some of you will still not see the reality...

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## Tom Sawyer

> Do we know who exactly the army has kidnapped?
> 
> Presumably, the dems and suthep will be released while the PT and red shirt folks will be detained...
> 
> BTW, the army are doing/supporting 100% what suthep wanted.


Yes, as has been predicted on here many times. Well that ought to shut up those who were saying the army wouldn't stage a coup and were not one-sided

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## Mid

> More than 75 percent of the people surveyed by Suan Dusit Poll agreed





> - 50.93 percent said the martial law would help ease the tensioin





> - 25.75 percent believe that martial law is a way out of the conflict


Agreed ??

spare me indeed .

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## Tom Sawyer

I sure hope the Reds have a real resistance plan..

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## The Ghost Of The Moog

> I sure hope the Reds have a real resistance plan..


Yes. Correct. It's now or never. 

If they just piddle off home  - and start Facebook and Twittersphere campaigns, then they deserve to be sidelined politically.

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## Mid

Above: On all the channels now—it reads “National Peace Keeping Council (NPKC)”

2Bangkok.com | Almost Like Being There

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## Merrimack

> I sure hope the Reds have a real resistance plan..



It would be kind of pathetic if they didn't but having the Coup happen proves the crimes of the Yellow Military. The world really doesn't care anyways. They could kill 10,000 Thais and in 5 years business and relations would be back to normal here. Sick world.

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## baldrick

> I sure hope the Reds have a real resistance plan..


With your thirst for blood shed I am sure we will see your face in the news leading the Charge against the amart oppressor pawn troops.

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## Mid

*Gunfire heard at Utthayan Road where red shirts rallying*
May 22, 2014

*Gunfire was heard at the Utthayan Road where the red-shirt people were rallying.*

            The gunfire was heard amid reports that troops would be deployed to forcefully disperse the demonstrators.

nationmultimedia.com

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## Merrimack

> Above: On all the channels nowit reads National Peace Keeping Council (NPKC)
> 
> 2Bangkok.com | Almost Like Being There



I wonder if the Internet will be shut down or screwed with this time. It may even be more powerful than the TV in some ways. I just wonder when my net is going to cut out.

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## Mid

*Prayuth announces military coup*
_Bangkok Pundit 
May 22, 2014_ 

*UPDATE: 15:50:* From Pravit at _The Nation_:

*BP*: Indeed. Below is a tweet from Sunai of HRW with screenshot from Thai TV:
  Prayuth and Co with the first announcement:



*BP*:  The other day we  got stage 1, but it is surprising that stage 2 was done by the military.  Do the Establishment really think this will work? 

*UPDATE: 15:40*: _The Nation_ has more:Prayuth and the police chief and other armed forces’ chef  went on TV to announce the coup after the seven-partite meeting at the  Army Club failed.

 After the talk failed at 4:10 pm, Prayuth ordered the break of the  meeting and representatives of five side were taken away in over ten  vans to the First Infantry Regiment, located next to the Army Club, the  reports said.

*The meeting mediated by Prayuth was attended by  representatives of the red-shirt movement, the government, the Pheu  Thai, the Democrat, the People’s Democratic Reform Committee, the Senate  and the Election Commission.*

*Only representatives of the Senate and the EC were not taken away in the military truck.**BP*: Will try to get an exact list of names to see who is left…

*UPDATE: 15:35*: Understand other leaders were detained, but will provide details soon

 Original post below

_The Nation_:Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha announced coup on TV at 5 pm.*BP:* Red shirt leaders have also been detained. More  soon, but please note that have limited Internet access now. We will  have to wait for foreign reaction. Will they take an Egypt approach or  we will they recognize what has happened with the military seizing  power?

http://asiancorrespondent.com/author/bangkokpundit/

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## Thormaturge

I can't wait for yet another constitution full of ridiculous flaws, another election, another Pheu Thai government (I wonder what they will call themselves this time?) and we all get to live another decade.

  I'm interested in what happens to Suthep and the AMLO charges now.  Dropping them would wreck this country's banking system.  We came to the brink before which is why we have the regulations.  If there is no effective oversight we are back to the brink.

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## Bettyboo

> The gunfire was heard amid reports that troops would be deployed to forcefully disperse the demonstrators.


PAD, 6 months of violence, nothing.

UDD, a couple of days of peaceful protest, and Prayuth goes in guns blazing...

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## Merrimack

> *Gunfire heard at Utthayan Road where red shirts rallying*
> May 22, 2014
> 
> *Gunfire was heard at the Utthayan Road where the red-shirt people were rallying.*
> 
>             The gunfire was heard amid reports that troops would be deployed to forcefully disperse the demonstrators.
> 
> nationmultimedia.com


It's been on the way all day. There were a lot of people down at that site yesterday. Some of the free speech there took it over the top. You can see what they said on some twitter pages. The video can't be posted. Just check Johnathan Head of the BBC's twitter he responds to a posting by someone else. Follow the link and you'll see the stuff. Anyways, the violence was on its way all day.

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## Mid

> *Gunfire heard at Utthayan Road where red shirts rallying*
> May 22, 2014
> 
> *Gunfire was heard at the Utthayan Road where the red-shirt people were rallying.*
> 
>             The gunfire was heard amid reports that troops would be deployed to forcefully disperse the demonstrators.
> 
> nationmultimedia.com


*Thai soldiers fire into the air at protest site*
05.22.14

    Thai soldiers fired  into the air at a pro-government red shirt protest site on Thursday  after the Thai army chief announced a military coup to restore order in  the country. (Reuters)

ynetnews.com

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## Mid

*UDD / Team Thida*     ‏@*UDD_English*  44 mins                                  Our co-leaders - include Jatuporn, Nuttawut, Thida, Veerakarn, and Korkeaw have been detained - remaining co-leaders are at Aksa

*UDD / Team Thida*     ‏@*UDD_English*  24 mins 
Soldiers are moving in at Aksa

https://twitter.com/UDD_English

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## Merrimack

Something in English live

Al Jazeera English – Live News Streaming

It's on and off. Not a special link just for Thailand.

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## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> I sure hope the Reds have a real resistance plan..
> 
> 
> Yes. Correct. It's now or never. 
> 
> If they just piddle off home  - and start Facebook and Twittersphere campaigns, then they deserve to be sidelined politically.


This was all clearly planned and coordinated between the PDRC (and of course its hi-so backers) and the Army, Courts, etc.. The Martial Law was part of the plan to get the soldiers on the streets and surround the reds camp, then call the leaders to talks, that was the bait, then spring the trap.

It will be interesting to see how pro-royalist Thais and supportive countries like US try to squirm around this obvious deceit

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## Mid

*Thai army 'to escort protesters from rally sites'*
Thu 22 May 2014

 
Thailand's army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha seen announcing a coup on Thai television. Credit: Thai TV   Thailand's army is to send troops and vehicles to escort protesters  away from rally sites, a senior army official told Reuters shortly after  the military staged a coup today.

 "We will send troops and vehicles to help protesters leave all rally  sites," General Teerachai Nakwanit, First Regional Army Commander, told  Reuters.

 Protesters from pro and anti-government groups have been rallying at  sites in and around Bangkok as part a protracted political crisis.

itv.com

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## Bettyboo

> I can't wait for yet another constitution full of ridiculous flaws, another election, another Pheu Thai government (I wonder what they will call themselves this time?) and we all get to live another decade.


Not gonna happen, gonna be bigger and worse this time around, they want complete victory...




> Red shirt leaders have also been detained.


For what? I thought these demonstrations (and the red ones have been peaceful) were legal and the people should be protected, according to Prayuth when talking about the PADites...

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## Mid

*Thailand coup: Pro-Thaksin 'Red Shirt' leader says will not end protest*
May 22, 2014 

 
_Pro-government "red shirt" protest leader Jatuporn Prompan during a  conference at his encampment in Nakhon Pathom province on the outskirts  of Bangkok on May 22, 2014. _ 
PHOTO: REUTERS        

*BANGKOK* (REUTERS) - The leader of Thailand's pro-government "Red  Shirts" said the political group would continue its rally on the  outskirts of Bangkok despite the military seizing control of the  government in a coup on Thursday and telling all protest groups to  disperse.

 "Will you fight or will you not fight? We will not go anywhere. Don't  panic because we expected this," leader Jatuporn Prompan told  supporters. "Whatever happens will happen."

 The group, supporters of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, had threatened to resist if the army seized power.

 The army has said it will send troops to pro- and anti-government protest sites in and around Bangkok to escort protesters away.

straitstimes.com

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## Mid

*Richard Barrow*                @RichardBarrow                          ·                             38s     

                          6:05pm Still peaceful at PDRC rally site on Ratchadamnoen but now surrounded by soldiers - TR @*news1005fm*: pic.twitter.com/2WUzmvtu4t #*ThaiCoup*

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## Albert Shagnastier

> PAD, 6 months of violence, nothing.  UDD, a couple of days of peaceful protest, and Prayuth goes in guns blazing...





> Thai soldiers fired into the air


Your usual drama queen rubbish.

Everyone's happy the Military have taken over this joke situation as the police have been as useless as bicycle pedals on a wheelchair.

Great quote from the army

"We're going to lock Suthep and Jatuporn up together until they love and understand each other"

Onwards and upwards.

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## Norton

> Well that ought to shut up those who were saying the army wouldn't stage a coup and were not one-sided


The end game was predictable but as one of those who said no coup I have missed the mark. Reason being no need for a coup. Simply let the powers that be do what they have done in the past. Remove the elected government "legally" and pretend to be democratic by holding elections. Again. 

Martial law marginally acceptable but not this. Afraid the feces is gong to hit the rotating machinery now.

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## Mid

https://twitter.com/UDD_English

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## KimDidMeGood

I don't get it: is Jatuporn in detention or not?

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## Bettyboo

^ I suspect that virtually all, if not all, the red leaders are - the army can do a well planned job if they want to, shame they didn't want to for the elected government...




> Martial law marginally acceptable but not this.


Not without consultation of the government, Norts - surely...




> Afraid the feces is gong to hit the rotating machinery now.


More appointments of their 'good people', more changes in the laws to restrict freedoms and rights, it's not gonna go down well internationally.

I'm not sure if the army will hold together or not, not sure how much resistance there will be from reds/others, we will see... & suthep gets exactly what he wants, what he was paid to do...

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## Mid

*Michael Töpffer*     ‏@*michaelbangkok*  9 mins                                  Now we know: Army-led  negotiation was a trap. The aim was to detain protest leaders. Only one  smart enuf 2 stay away: caretaker PM.

https://twitter.com/UDD_English

...............................

*UPDATE: 16 : 10* A journalist from The Nation Group reports on what happened from the meeting from all side:

*BP:* Translation Key phrase from Army C-in-C today  after Chaikasem [caretaker Justice Minister] wouldnt resign; Army  C-in-C slammed his hand on the table and said I have made the decision  to seize power; [i] invite the EC and Senators to leave the room.


*UPDATE: 15:50:* From Pravit at _The Nation_:


http://asiancorrespondent.com/123040...military-coup/

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## VocalNeal

> Guess they don't have families or give a shit about other people's rights and freedom.


Please explain what rights and freedoms have been removed? Freedom to work, freedom to have a roof over one's head, freedom to .....

Have groups of more than 5 been banned if so you can't come over for dinner!

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## Mid

*UDD / Team Thida*     ‏@*UDD_English*  2 mins                                  Aksa - under the control of the soldiers - pic.twitter.com/hlmDhSFtsO

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## Mid

> freedom to ....


*VOTE*

.

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## Merrimack

I wonder what the soldiers who support the reds think about this. A few days ago, I read that one general didn't support Prayuth. That was from a CNN story. 

If any TD posters are downtown or near these rally sites, keep us updated. .

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## Albert Shagnastier

> Michael Töpffer ‏@michaelbangkok



 :rofl:

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## buriramboy

Khaosod English ‏@KhaosodEnglish  · 6m  
#BREAKING: Military declares 10PM curfew

Wonder if it applies to pattaya bars.

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## Bettyboo

Notice how PADite/dem Kasit has been doing the international media rounds over the last few days (Al Jazeera, BBC are 2 that I've seen) on behalf of the army - now saying that PT are like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt - well coordinated by the total PAD team...

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## chassamui

BBC World news just announced a curfew nationwide from 10pm to 5am.

No problem for me. If I'm not in bed by 10 o'clock, I go home anyway.

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## Merrimack

"army has issued a CURFEW from 10pm - 5am!"

https://twitter.com/Saksith


Another good link for twitter news

https://twitter.com/berndweb01

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## Mid

*Luangpu Buddha Isara declares victory, orders supporters to disperse from Chaeng Wattana*
May 22, 2014

*Luangpu Buddha Isara  declared victory after the military seized power and ordered his  supporters at the Chang Wattana rally site to go home.*

Luangpu announced the victory at 5 pm. He said the demonstrators would start packing belongings to return home after 6 pm.

The monk said he would remain behind to oversee the dispersing that  could take about two days before he would return to his temple.

nationmultimedia.com

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## Albert Shagnastier

> "army has issued a CURFEW from 10pm - 5am!"


I bet I can still go and buy beers at 1am  :Smile:

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## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> Well that ought to shut up those who were saying the army wouldn't stage a coup and were not one-sided
> 
> 
> The end game was predictable but as one of those who said no coup I have missed the mark. Reason being no need for a coup. Simply let the powers that be do what they have done in the past. Remove the elected government "legally" and pretend to be democratic by holding elections. Again. 
> 
> Martial law marginally acceptable but not this. Afraid the feces is gong to hit the rotating machinery now.


At the end of the day, Norton, the Royalists needed the heavy hand to protect them, even if it was some kangaroo court and whatever to get rid of the government. It wouldn't be accepted because everyone in the world could see this was a stitch-up (except the yellows on the street of course). Even the so-called buffalo in a village could see it. In the end  -  the Royalists needed a skirt to hind behind and Prayuth's did the job

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## Mid

URGENT 6:15pm 3rd announcement from the army: Curfew declared in #*Thailand* from 10pm to 5am

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow

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## barrylad66

how longs this fecking awful music gonna last on the t.v?? :Confused:

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## Albert Shagnastier

The Thai army is the ultimate will of the Thai people. The last bastion of defence.

Linked strongly to the leadership of this country for the past 700 odd years.

Fuck the politicians and the bent police force.

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## Bettyboo

> Luangpu Buddha Isara declared victory after the military seized power and ordered his supporters at the Chang Wattana rally site to go home.


That's 100% clear, but the PADite backers won't be pleased that he opened his mouth...

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## Merrimack

https://twitter.com/leesebkk/media

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## xanax

> It's amazing how pro-coup or generally apathetic many expats here are. Guess they don't have families or give a shit about other people's rights and freedom.


That goes for many Thais as well, all my mrs and her mates care about is the price of noodles and Robinson having an 80% off sale this week, quite depressing really.

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## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> "army has issued a CURFEW from 10pm - 5am!"
> 
> 
> I bet I can still go and buy beers at 1am


I bought mine at 5:15
 :Smile:

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## Merrimack

Thai baht moving? tanking?

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## Zooheekock

> The Thai army is the ultimate will of the Thai people.


Pure fascism. At least you've given all pretense of being a human being so I suppose you should at least be congratulated on your honesty.

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## aging one

> Luangpu Buddha Isara declared victory after the military seized power and ordered his supporters at the Chang Wattana rally site to go home.  Luangpu announced the victory at 5 pm. He said the demonstrators would start packing belongings to return home after 6 pm.  The monk said he would remain behind to oversee the dispersing that could take about two days before he would return to his temple.  nationmultimedia.com


Get this fucker as well.

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## Mid

*UPDATE: 16:20:* Kasit (former Foreign Minister under Abhisit) has just one on BBC and stated:

Rachel Harvey          @*HarveyBKK*  Follow                 Khun Kasit on #*bbcworldnews* drawing parallel between #*yingluck* govt and Muslim brotherhood in Egypt! #*thailand*


*http://asiancorrespondent.com/123040/prayuth-announces-military-coup/
*

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## thailazer

And I was just telling friends back in the USA that this country is a powder keg....   Geeeez.    Wonder which big players are driving the army?

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## Merrimack

> *UPDATE: 16:20:* Kasit (former Foreign Minister under Abhisit) has just one on BBC and stated:
> 
> Rachel Harvey          @*HarveyBKK*  Follow                 Khun Kasit on #*bbcworldnews* drawing parallel between #*yingluck* govt and Muslim brotherhood in Egypt! #*thailand*
> 
> 
> *http://asiancorrespondent.com/123040/prayuth-announces-military-coup/
> *



Kasit has always been a warped soul since way back. He's a perfect example why the yellows are slime.

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## Merrimack

Just a clip.

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## Zooheekock

There's not much any of us can do but British citizens who want to put what little pressure they can on their government can contact Hugo Swire MP (the Minster of State responsible for SE Asia) at hugo.swire.mp@parliament.uk or at  Contact Form | Hugo Swire

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## xanax

> how longs this fecking awful music gonna last on the t.v??


well it's better than the usual crap that's on. I expect until some general explains why animal farm has had to be taken over, again

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## nidhogg

RIDER:  Entirely unsubstantiated


Missus just called:  one of my sons schoool friends lives near Aska.  Reports of heavy fighting.....

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## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> 
> The Thai army is the ultimate will of the Thai people. The last bastion of defence.
> 
> Linked strongly to the leadership of this country for the past 700 odd years.
> 
> Fuck the politicians and the bent police force.
> 
> ...


Dusit Poll has it at 75%.

Nutty enough?  :Smile:

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## Merrimack

"PDRC protesters cheered at news of full coup."
https://twitter.com/Thai_Talk

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## Albert Shagnastier

> "PDRC protesters cheered at news of full coup."


And in other news it was discovered that ice is cold.
 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Merrimack

"Keep ignoring the double standards and then wonder why its continually groundhog day in #*Thailand*"

https://twitter.com/Nganadeeleg

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## Tom Sawyer

Latest proclamation specifically warned police and other armed authorities from mobilizing without the coup-makers specific permission. Not clear what that means. Perhaps the traffic police are now unarmed?

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## thailazer

> Latest proclamation specifically warned police and other armed authorities from mobilizing without the coup-makers specific permission. Not clear what that means. Perhaps the traffic police are now unarmed?


No whistles?

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## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> "PDRC protesters cheered at news of full coup."
> 
> 
> And in other news it was discovered that ice is cold.


But their on-cue jubilation quickly turned to frustration as they realized the protest was over, as was the daily salary for baking in the sun. As of tomorrow they would be returning to the rubber plantations with their bosses at the height of summer to start chopping again. The family vacation to the capital was over..

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## Merrimack

"BTS Skytrain operates until 9pm"

https://twitter.com/MCOT_Eng

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## nidhogg

> Latest proclamation specifically warned police and other armed authorities from mobilizing without the coup-makers specific permission. Not clear what that means. Perhaps the traffic police are now unarmed?


I think the key is "other armed authorities".   The armed forces are not a monolith as I have said before.....

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## barrylad66

> Latest proclamation specifically warned police and other armed authorities from mobilizing without the coup-makers specific permission. Not clear what that means. Perhaps the traffic police are now unarmed?


bil has had his gun confiscated in bangkok. has gone to work on his car instead :rofl:

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## The Ghost Of The Moog

People should break the curfew. Just go out on the streets.  The army can't shoot everyone. People power.

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## Tom Sawyer

> "BTS Skytrain operates until 9pm"
> 
> https://twitter.com/MCOT_Eng


Thanks for that very useful info

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## Thormaturge

> But their on-cue jubilation quickly turned to frustration as they realized the protest was over, as was the daily salary for baking in the sun. As of tomorrow they would be returning to the rubber plantations with their bosses at the height of summer to start chopping again. The family vacation to the capital was over..


They will also come to realise that they too have been shafted by the very system they  demonstrated in favour of.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> But their on-cue jubilation quickly turned to frustration as they realized the protest was over, as was the daily salary for baking in the sun. As of tomorrow they would be returning to the rubber plantations with their bosses at the height of summer to start chopping again. The family vacation to the capital was over..


Good. 

Now, ALL parties (about 70) are sitting down to discuss reforms together for the next 1-2 years. Then there will be a vote.

Sounds like a very good idea to me.

6 months to Asean, Thailand has to step up into top gear ASAP

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## Norton

> The armed forces are not a monolith as I have said before.....


They are however the 500 lb gorilla. Police and other military branches don't count.

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## Bettyboo

On the Al Jazeera report, they were saying that before the army stepped in, there was no violence in Bkk, and suthep's mob were very few in numbers, so the timing was highly suspicious... Now, after that we have news/media block (can't get through to Thailand on Skye, can anyone else?) from the army and reports of gun fire/heavy gun fire in at a couple of different places - not good...

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> The armed forces are not a monolith as I have said before.....
> 
> 
> They are however the 500 lb gorilla. Police and other military branches don't count.


I don't think the army is a monolith either norts.  And that is the really, really scary part.......

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## Tom Sawyer

> 6 months to Asean, Thailand has to step up into top gear ASAP


Good point. Can't see Thailand heading ASEAN with a junta government

----------


## Norton

> (can't get through to Thailand on Skye, can anyone else?)


Mine is working fine.

----------


## Seekingasylum

What happens if one is on a flight arriving or departing at, say, midnight? Who delivers all the stuff necessary to keep a mega city running if we are all confined to our homes at 2200hrs until 0500hrs?
How do key workers pootle about?

Or is it a case everyone ignores it?

----------


## nidhogg

Sons friend cannot get home and scared, blocked by army (aska way).  Offered spare bedroom....

----------


## Merrimack

Here's the Thai baht over the past five days. Just now it was 32.6/$1 The big drop on the right was the news of the Coup, the big one before that the martial law.

USDTHB=X Basic Chart | USD/THB Stock - Yahoo! Finance

----------


## Thormaturge

> 6 months to Asean, Thailand has to step up into top gear ASAP


In the past week we have shifted from neutral to reverse and somehow found a second reverse gear....a speciality of military vehicles.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Mine is working fine.


Thanks, Norts.



I don't know if this can be true - I cut & pasted from Jimmy on the other thread:

*Suthep has been released by the Army to rejoin the PDRC*. There is still no words on the other factions? 
https://twitter.com/Gotham711/status...127296/photo/1

https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...ailand-15.html

Seems hard to believe even by PADite standards...

----------


## xanax

> Sons friend cannot get home and scared, blocked by army (aska way).  Offered spare bedroom....


mate where is aska please? my mrs is out at work until 9, or was.

----------


## Merrimack

" the minute UDD leader is detained at Aksa stage"
https://twitter.com/CoconutsBangkok

----------


## Merrimack

"All Central stores will be closed at 8PM"
https://twitter.com/CoconutsBangkok

----------


## buriramboy

Kay Burley ‏@KayBurley  · 1m  
Thai army says constitution has been scrapped - Reuters

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> Sons friend cannot get home and scared, blocked by army (aska way). Offered spare bedroom....
> 
> 
> mate where is aska please? my mrs is out at work until 9, or was.


Aska is the main red demo site outside bangkok, nakorn pathom way, phuttamontol sai 4...

my spelling may suck - aska, aksa.......sorry

----------


## Norton

> mate where is aska please?


Utthayan Road in Thawi Watthana district.

----------


## Bettyboo

I'll add the fools guide: across the bridge from the Grand Palace/Khaosan Rd, past Pinklao then straight up for about 30kms until you hit the Bangkok boundary with Nakhon Pathum, close to Mahidol University.

----------


## nidhogg

Fuck.  True visions just cut off.........playing card and some singing....

----------


## Merrimack

"Thai Army scraps the constitution"

https://twitter.com/ChannelNewsAsia

----------


## xanax

thanks for that she's in another direction, Al Jazera is still on true

----------


## Mr Lick

> Fuck. True visions just cut off.........playing card and some singing....


 
Bloody good i'm not in LoS, that would be a declaration of war  :Smile:

----------


## nidhogg

some army dude on now making an announcement...

----------


## Merrimack

https://twitter.com/Gotham711

"Fatality reported @*Aksa* crackdown underneath the Taweewattana canal bridge"

----------


## nidhogg

laying down regulations - all i get is 1 blah bla..2 blah blah..up to 14 now..

----------


## Rural Surin

The Thai military....

Just good impartial observers - not taking sides or anything. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Intervened for peace and stability - for the good of the country. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Indeed.

----------


## pseudolus

> Fuck.  True visions just cut off.........playing card and some singing....


Movies channnels still working down here.

----------


## aging one

> Fuck. True visions just cut off.........playing card and some singing....


All thai channels are cut. International ones are not.

----------


## Merrimack

ThaiPBS is still broadcasting online...

----------


## nidhogg

Fox (entertainment) off.....

CNN on..

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Here in downtown BKK we have no telly and a few burglar alarms are ringing.

----------


## aging one

> Fox (entertainment) off.....


 Fox Thai, sadly if you think back the commercials changed to Thai language after the new channel alignment, I guess that Thai bit means it is cut. CNN BBC and the international channels are still up.

----------


## Merrimack

ChannelNewsAsia out of Singapore Live online

Live TV - Channel NewsAsia

----------


## Thormaturge

> Here in downtown BKK we have no telly and a few burglar alarms are ringing.


I suggest you call the cops.  


...for a laugh.

----------


## KimDidMeGood

This situation has the potential to get really, really messy. The difference v. 2006 is that today there is a Red Shirt movement... and some guy somewhere who commands an elite unit of armed forces who might be not so pleased with the latest development.

----------


## nidhogg

CNN just gone...

----------


## Tom Sawyer

The Right Wing Royalists bare their teeth - unleash their dogs. All to play for, all pretense of a democratic nation thrown to the wind.. Protect our right to drive Ferraris!

----------


## aging one

shit, for me as well.....

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Fox off.....


Every cloud has a silver lining eh?  :Smile:

----------


## aging one

> and some guy somewhere who commands an elite unit of armed forces who might be not so pleased with the latest development.


Who lives in Germany is in reality is quite ill.  Too late now....

All TV gone

----------


## Mr Lick

> This situation has the potential to get really, really messy. The difference v. 2006 is that today there is a Red Shirt movement... and some guy somewhere who commands an elite unit of armed forces who might be not so pleased with the latest development.


 
The man in Dubai had little patience when power was snatched from him by the Dems in 2008 so i'm not sure if he can twiddle his thumbs for possibly 2 years before an election of some sorts comes around.

What are the alternatives?

----------


## nidhogg

down to the history channel...

----------


## taxexile

rumoured that internet off at 8pm tonight.????????

----------


## robuzo

I just heard from a friend that the Cartoon Network is down. Bad move, Prayuth, messing with Ben 10 now.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> 
> Here in downtown BKK we have no telly and a few burglar alarms are ringing.
> 
> 
> I suggest you call the cops.  
> 
> 
> ...for a laugh.


No bodies picking up.  :Smile: 

If you donate $200 to TD I'll go and take some pictures down cowboy , nana and patpong at 10pm and we can see just how serious this situation is  :Smile:

----------


## xanax

all telly off now, people will be topping themselves, will the web be next? cvnt in a uniform then Aljazera off and the Australian one

----------


## nidhogg

...and gone.  Seems they did it channel by channel.....(history is 557 or so.....)

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> I just heard from a friend that the Cartoon Network is down


Now this is very troubling news. What kind of real democracy denies children cartoons  :Smile:

----------


## Merrimack

> I just heard from a friend that the Cartoon Network is down. Bad move, Prayuth, messing with Ben 10 now.


The plan is to have everyone twiddle their thumbs sitting quietly in the dark with their families.

----------


## nidhogg

> I just heard from a friend that the Cartoon Network is down. Bad move, Prayuth, messing with Ben 10 now.


Yup.  Kids channels around the mid 400s...

----------


## Merrimack

If you want TV check out the ChannelNews link  its total Thai coverage right now and in English. Oops going off Thai coverage I think.

Live TV - Channel NewsAsia

----------


## Thormaturge

I gather BBC news has just gone

----------


## Thormaturge

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> 
> I just heard from a friend that the Cartoon Network is down. Bad move, Prayuth, messing with Ben 10 now.
> 
> 
> The plan is to have everyone twiddle their thumbs sitting quietly in the dark with their families.


This is Thailand, it won't be their thumbs that get twiddled.

----------


## xanax

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> I just heard from a friend that the Cartoon Network is down
> 
> 
> Now this is very troubling news. What kind of real democracy denies children cartoons


North Korea?

----------


## taxexile

PHUKET: Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha today announced a nationwide curfew that will come into effect at 10pm tonight.

The curfew, from 10pm to 5am, will affect Phuket and all other tourist destinations in Thailand.

No people, including tourists, are allowed to leave their residence or hotel unless given specific permission by government officers.

This order will remain in place until further notice, said Gen Prayuth.

Source: http://www.phuketgaz...9519#ad-image-0


-- Phuket Gazette 2014-05-22

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> The plan is to have everyone twiddle their thumbs sitting quietly in the dark with their families.


Thanks for your honesty.

But that shit ain't working  :Smile:

----------


## Norton

> CNN just gone...


all gone. inet was off for a bit as well.

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> I just heard from a friend that the Cartoon Network is down
> 
> 
> Now this is very troubling news. What kind of real democracy denies children cartoons


It's no way to win hearts and minds. I suppose people could read to their. . .never mind, as long as the Internets are up cartoons can be found.

----------


## nidhogg

While i still have internet, which I am not sure will  last, one can't but help wonder if something  "momentous" is in process which warrents locking the country down tight...

----------


## Begbie

They've just blocked all the sattelite channels on True. The internet will be next.

----------


## Norton

Better get local TV on before 8:30 0r we're talking major probs with disgruntled housewives in Isaan. You do anything you want but screwing up soaps is beyond reason.

----------


## Bettyboo

> The curfew, from 10pm to 5am, will affect Phuket and all other tourist destinations in Thailand.
> 
> No people, including tourists, are allowed to leave their residence or hotel unless given specific permission by government officers.


I thought Prayuth said today the coup won't affect international relations; it's not gonna help tourist numbers, all the news stations I've watched have been clearly against it, even reporters from the nation have been scathing against the coup (was interviewed about 40 minutes ago on Al Jazeera, may have been a recording?). Lots of major Thai media sources are scathing about the coup, some with signs on their webpages for the coup generals to leave. Nothing positive for the generals who are now taking out ALL the Thai media (I can't see your internet links lasting through the night - hope I'm wrong...).

Yep, this is a real voice of the people, taking away media and liberties, all in the name of, ahem, democracy given by good men...

----------


## robuzo

> PHUKET: Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha today announced a nationwide curfew that will come into effect at 10pm tonight.
> 
> The curfew, from 10pm to 5am, will affect Phuket and all other tourist destinations in Thailand.
> 
> No people, including tourists, are allowed to leave their residence or hotel unless given specific permission by government officers.
> 
> This order will remain in place until further notice, said Gen Prayuth.
> 
> Source: http://www.phuketgaz...9519#ad-image-0
> ...


I wonder what they mean by "government officer." I'm guessing not the cops, they are probably not allowed out either.

Anybody in Thonglor? Any action in front of police HQ there, as in, say, vehicle-mounted heavy machine guns pointed at the main building?

----------


## Norton

> can't but help wonder if something "momentous" is in process which warrents locking the country down tight...


Thinking the same. Maybe something extremely "momentous".

----------


## Norton

> Prayuth said today the coup won't affect international relations


If he said that he's smokin coupja.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> can't but help wonder if something "momentous" is in process which warrents locking the country down tight...
> 
> 
> Thinking the same. Maybe something extremely "momentous".


Yup.  The timing is all off for anything else.

----------


## chassamui

How easy/difficult is it to shut down internetshire?

----------


## Thormaturge

^^
Presumably the army can shut down the ThaiCom satellites but not other ones owned outside Thailand.

I doubt they can pull the plug on the entire internet, but they can doubtless block a lot of material if they want.   

Some of us know how to deal with that.

----------


## taxexile

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> can't but help wonder if something "momentous" is in process which warrents locking the country down tight...
> 
> 
> Thinking the same. Maybe something extremely "momentous".


with the country so divided, i suppose they are taking no chances.

they are clearing all the protest sites, providing buses and trucks to move protesters out

they obviously expect trouble from travelling armed red anti coup mobs and members of the feared tom sawyer suicide bomber front for the extermination of chinky looking hi sos, so they will secure road junctions and control all movements. i dont think they are messing about.

----------


## nidhogg

> ^^
> Presumably the army can shut down the ThaiCom satellites but not other ones owned outside Thailand.
> 
> I doubt they can pull the plug on the entire internet, but they can doubtless block a lot of material if they want. 
> 
> Some of us know how to deal with that.


Dunno, I am not an internet thingy dweeb, but pretty sure I go through a local ISP - seems that is the place to cut.....sure that can be got around, but how many people have the means and ability?

----------


## Norton

*May 22, 2014*

   	 	    "This message is to inform U.S. citizens that the Royal Thai Army has  announced it has seized control of the administration of the country  effective 4:30 PM on May 22, 2014.  Authorities have announced a  countrywide curfew from 10PM to 5AM. U.S. citizens are advised to stay  alert, exercise caution, and monitor media coverage.  You are advised to  avoid areas where there are protest events, large gatherings, or  security operations and follow the instructions of Thai authorities.
 U.S. citizens are cautioned that even demonstrations that are meant  to be peaceful can turn confrontational and escalate into violence. You  should avoid protest sites, demonstrations, and large gatherings. Be  alert and aware of your surroundings and *pay attention to local news  media reports.* You should allow extra time when travelling throughout  the city or to/from airports. Consider using public transportation."


From US Embassy.


*"pay attention to local news  media reports."*


Idiots. *
*

----------


## Zooheekock

Thai PBS is broadcasting on youtube

----------


## Bettyboo

UDD / Team Thida ‏@UDD_English  22m
Many of our co-leaders have been detained without whereabouts - families have not been informed - they are most likely detained at army camp

UDD / Team Thida ‏@UDD_English  23m
Multiples shooting can be heard behind the stage at Aksa

UDD / Team Thida ‏@UDD_English  1h
Most supporters still trying to leave - some refused to leave - report of gun fire heard in surrounding area - don't know who's shooting

----------


## Sumbitch

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tv/live is still streaming live and the coverage is non-stop about the Thai coup

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Channel NewsAsia (Singapore) reporting acting PTP PM and others from PTP seeking asylum in US Embassy in Bangkok (the fools)

----------


## taxexile

what does the 4th symbol from the left, as shown on the tv screens at the moment represent?

----------


## Zooheekock

Some saying that Niwatthamrong is in the American Embassy and will continue a government in exile.

----------


## taxexile

> Reports coming in that caretaker Thai PM is at US Embassy, possibly planning to set up government in exile


https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow

----------


## taxexile

Follow

Richard Barrow
‏@RichardBarrow
Thai PM is NOT at US Embassy - Ambassador @KristieKenney: Absolutely false. Do not believe rumors #ThaiCoup #Bangkok #Thailand

 :Smile:

----------


## Bettyboo

Tax beat me to it...

----------


## Zooheekock

Wouldn't load for me but englishnews.thaipbs.or.th may be broadcasting.

----------


## Bettyboo

BBC’s @JonahFisher: Video of the moment at the Army Club when we realised a #ThaiCoup might be in progress  BBC News - Key videos from Thailand military coup … #Thailand

BBC News - Key videos from Thailand military coup

The BBC's Jonah Fisher and other reporters were forced to leave the venue for talks involving the military and political leaders, prompting a sense that a coup was imminent.

----------


## leemo

> Thai baht moving? tanking?


Quite stable, and SET closed up a couple of pips, but being sooo unexpected it may have caught everyone by surprise. 

I wouldn't like to guess where these measures might be found once the nice people in uniform roll up their sleeves and start running the country.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Follow
> 
> Richard Barrow
> ‏@RichardBarrow
> Thai PM is NOT at US Embassy - Ambassador @KristieKenney: Absolutely false. Do not believe rumors #ThaiCoup #Bangkok #Thailand


Ooh, skinny chicken was quick on that wasn't she? Probably had State calling her "What the fuck are you doing?" "Did you forget we are a PARTY to this STUPID?" (or more politely, please remember Madam Ambassador we have a dog in this fight)

----------


## StrontiumDog

One thing is for sure....never believe a word that asshat Prayuth says ever again....

How recently did he say there wouldn't be a coup and to keep the army out of it. 

Good lord I'm on seriously pissed off farang.

Meanwhile, lots of rumours about the internet being cut floating about on the internet....Prayuth did summon the ISPs yesterday after all. But so far it seems to be working okay....

----------


## taxexile

Internet will be turned off at 9pm, richard barrow.

----------


## leemo

> The Thai military....
> 
> Just good impartial observers - not taking sides or anything.
> Intervened for peace and stability - for the good of the country.
> 
> Indeed.


How else to market a coup as a corrupt general?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

^^
So they can massacre Red Shirts??

----------


## nidhogg

> How recently did he say there wouldn't be a coup and to keep the army out of it. 
> 
> Good lord I'm on seriously pissed off farang.


I seriously believe something else is going on.  stay cool and see how things develop.

----------


## barrylad66

> what does the 4th symbol from the left, as shown on the tv screens at the moment represent?


the missus informs me it is the national peace and order maintaining council, but not sure :Confused:

----------


## Dandyhole

> Channel NewsAsia (Singapore) reporting acting PTP PM and others from PTP seeking asylum in US Embassy in Bangkok (the fools)


Took my advice by the sound of it, but better they split themselves around different embassies , game changer

----------


## leemo

> I just heard from a friend that the Cartoon Network is down. Bad move, Prayuth, messing with Ben 10 now.


All the regular channels are up and running, no ploplems.

----------


## tomta

> #168 (permalink) Z ExpatZooheekock Thailand Expat 	 Some saying that Niwatthamrong is in the American Embassy and will continue a government in exile.


Ambassador Kenney has denied that it seems. Pity. Would have been a good move.

----------


## leemo

> While i still have internet, which I am not sure will  last, one can't but help wonder if something  "momentous" is in process which warrents locking the country down tight...


There's only one thing that horrible...

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> I seriously believe something else is going on.  stay cool and see how things develop.


I think you're wrong - if I understand your suggestion - this is actually about getting ready for that  "other arrangement" - and that's why things are so dangerous now. We are facing a very difficult time ahead IMO

----------


## pseudolus

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> While i still have internet, which I am not sure will  last, one can't but help wonder if something  "momentous" is in process which warrents locking the country down tight...
> 
> 
> There's only one thing that horrible...


No way. Really? You think that a TV network planned to show Kevin Costner's Waterworld?

Have they no shame!

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Zooheekock
> 
>  	  #168 (permalink) Z ExpatZooheekock Thailand Expat 	 Some saying that Niwatthamrong is in the American Embassy and will continue a government in exile.
> 
> 
> Ambassador Kenney has denied that it seems. Pity. Would have been a good move.


Might mean they refused him there

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by Zooheekock
> 
>  	  #168 (permalink) Z ExpatZooheekock Thailand Expat 	 Some saying that Niwatthamrong is in the American Embassy and will continue a government in exile.
> 
> 
> Ambassador Kenney has denied that it seems. Pity. Would have been a good move.


They don't allow walk-ins anymore. Have to make an appointment before setting up a government-in-exile.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
>  
> I seriously believe something else is going on. stay cool and see how things develop.
> 
> 
> I think you're wrong - if I understand your suggestion - this is actually about getting ready for that "other arrangement" - and that's why things are so dangerous now. We are facing a very difficult time ahead IMO


I think it is in process, that is why they are locking things down.  A few days will see the right of it.....

....there is no real sense to a coup now.......

----------


## StrontiumDog

*teamkorn*     ‏@*teamkorn*  6m                                  "@*ChadapornLin*: ICT Ministry officials confirm internet service will not be cut"

----------


## Bettyboo

> ICT Ministry officials confirm internet service will not be cut


That's good news.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by tomta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Zooheekock
> ...


Yes it's a pity that once great nation would stand by its principals - but as we've seen in the last decade it was all bullshit, and maybe always was bullshit - which I really feel sad about. I grew up respecting it, now - I know it's us against them. How sad.

----------


## taxexile

quite impressive and somewhat frightening really, that in the space of six or seven hours, they can literally close down a modern country of 70 million and almost shut it off from the outside world.

and the tv stations broadcasting non stop cold war style  military anthems just adds to the surreal nature of it all.

i think i feel a novel coming on !!

----------


## leemo

> ^^
> Presumably the army can shut down the ThaiCom satellites but not other ones owned outside Thailand.
> 
> I doubt they can pull the plug on the entire internet, but they can doubtless block a lot of material if they want.   
> 
> Some of us know how to deal with that.


If the uniforms overstep their 'democratic' mandate and try to pull the plug on the www the situation could get out of hand and fast. And my guess says the monkeys know this.

----------


## taxexile

> I think it is in process, that is why they are locking things down. A few days will see the right of it....


they expect the only ones on the streets tonight are likely to be armed red gangs, and they want clear lines of sight.

----------


## larvidchr

Bloody idiots, power tripping little Thai Neanderthal tossers with 1 inch dicks and 5 satang brains, just finished a movie on true when all channels went, how the fvuck is there any risk of Thai subversive programming on HBO or the Turbo channel.

What do people do, they are told to stay home and not make trouble, so OK most Thais say fine on with the soap or a movie, now they can't even do that but have to listen to that awful wailing, right there we have given them reason and opportunity to talk politics and meet up with the neighbours  :mid:  :mid:  :mid: 

Instead of slapping the most popular soaps on and the last ten biggest blockbusters.

If that is the level of "North Korean" intelligence we can expect from those new morons in charge things really are bleak.

 :Smile:

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> Fuck. True visions just cut off.........playing card and some singing....
> 
> 
>  
> Bloody good i'm not in LoS, that would be a declaration of war





> People should break the curfew. Just go out on the streets.  The army can't shoot everyone. People power.


Um, not sure that would work here. Ideals, principles and rights ain't high in the chickenhead order of things. Simply put, there isn't a discernible profit in risking one's arse for an abstract.

Essentially, it's why they are in the position that they're in. Little fuckers simply don't care unless there's something in it for them.

The chaps down the club in Budleigh Salterton would have hurled their croquet clubs at the tanks and given them what for without a moment's hesitation. Difference you see between real people and a bunch of nig nogs.

----------


## leemo

> One thing is for sure....never believe a word that asshat Prayuth says ever again....
> 
> How recently did he say there wouldn't be a coup and to keep the army out of it. 
> 
> Good lord I'm on seriously pissed off farang.


To be fair he did say it with a straight face.

----------


## nidhogg

^^ and you were doing so well up to now.....

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Asian Correspondent*     ‏@*AsCorrespondent*  3m #*THAILAND* 

UPDATE: Reports say that Chalerm Yuumbumrung, a deputy PM under Yingluck, was detained by army at his home http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874/thailand-coup-live/ …

----------


## Norton

> That's good news.


Hard to believe anything said by the "authorities" these days.

----------


## nidhogg

> *Asian Correspondent* ‏@*AsCorrespondent* 3m #*THAILAND* 
> 
> UPDATE: Reports say that Chalerm Yuumbumrung, a deputy PM under Yingluck, was detained by army at his home http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874/thailand-coup-live/

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Reports say that Chalerm Yuumbumrung, a deputy PM under Yingluck, was detained by army at his home


Is that the guy who got his son off after him and his mates held down a bloke in a nightclub and shot him in the face in front of everybody?

Sounded like such a nice bloke  :Smile:

----------


## StrontiumDog

*http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874...and-coup-live/

LIVE: Thailand’s army takes over in military coup*

_By Saksith Saiyasombut & Siam Voices May 22, 2014 5:51PM UTC_ 


An  armed Thai soldier orders journalists to step back as a military  vehicle enters the compound of the Army Club in Bangkok after the  military staged a coup Thursday. Pic: AP.

*IN BRIEF:*  At 4.30pm local time Thursday Thailand’s  army took over in the country’s 12th coup d’etat since 1932. The  military has ordered a nationwide curfew from 10pm to 5am.
*
+++ALL TIMES LOCAL BANGKOK TIME+++* *
8.58pm:* A number of Democrat Party members, including leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, are still being detained by the military:

Democrats that are still detained:       - Abhisit Vejjajiva  - Juti Krairiksh  - Sirichok Sopha   - Nipit Intarasombat - Chamni Sakdisek
*
8.52pm:* One of the deputy PMs under the Yingluck Shinawatra government Chalerm Yuumbumrung is reportedly in detention: 

              Tulip Naksompop          @*Tulip_Oum*  Follow

_Chalerm Yuubumrung reportedly captured at his house in BangBon and sent to Military 1st Infantry Regiment.-@Chu_SpringNews_
*
8.44pm:* There are conflicting rumors on whether  Internet will be cut off at 9pm this evening. However, there are  unconfirmed reports that the ICT has said it will not be cut:
*
8.40pm:* Embassies from nations around the world are advising their citizens to travel with extreme caution in Thailand. *8.23pm:*  The location of ex-interim Prime Minister Niwatthamrong is still  unknown. US Ambassador Kristie Kenney has strongly denied rumors that he  is at the US Embassy. 
*
7.46pm:* The military has begun taking international  news channels off air. BBC and CNN are now unavailable. There has bee no  notable Internet censorship reported so far. *7.39pm:* No public gatherings of more than five people are permitted in Thailand, the army has said. *

7.33pm:* The army has ordered ex-interim Prime Minister Niwatthamrong Bunsongphaisarn to hand himself in. *

7.18pm: NEWSFLASH!*  Thailand’s Constitution has been temporarily suspended, except the  articles “pertaining to monarchy”. The Cabinet and the Senate have been  dissolved. Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha has announced himself as head of  council that will run a temporary government.

----------


## aging one

Everybody wanted action to be taken one way the other.  Well its happened big time. To me a lot of time and preparation has gone into this. Arresting the leaders while they were on military land is something else.  

Never have I seen all TV cut like this. I have been through a renegade slashed cable. But the military and for the first time ever the freaking Police have made a statement. 

The greedy fcukers were so lax this was the easiest coup in history. Nobody gave a shit. There was money to be made.   As an old timer I really want to see how this plays out.

----------


## nidhogg

> *8.44pm:* There are conflicting rumors on whether Internet will be cut off at 9pm this evening. However, there are unconfirmed reports that the ICT has said it will not be cut:


21: 06 by my computer and sill going....  Still Thais are tardy buggers...

----------


## StrontiumDog

^ Latest updates...will post them as I find them....

----------


## Bangyai

Not sure if its been mentioned elsewhere but apparently there has been trouble persuading some of the red shirt protesters to leave. I can't post a scource but a Thai friend who is in the military and in touch with other friends reckons that over 20 redshirts have been killed when fighting broke out and that there were some 
' watermelons ' involved in the shooting.

I know rumour is not news but I believe that what is slowly filtering out is probably true. Even the army broadcasts have mentioned shooting going on so something is happening down there for sure.

 :Confused:

----------


## Sumbitch

^ That's a nice timeline, StrongDog. I also got Live TV - Channel NewsAsia streaming in the background. So far, internet is OK.

----------


## Bettyboo

^^^ sad news if true.

Despite the troubles in the last 6 months, there has not been many deaths; too many, and avoidable, but not on a massive scale.

&, the recent red shirt protests have been peaceful and trouble/violence free.

----------


## KimDidMeGood

French president Hollande "condemns takeover of power by the Army"

----------


## Topper

The most important effect of the coup that everyone has failed to consider is this:

Will the schools be open tomorrow or will I get to stay home and drink beer?

----------


## Thormaturge

> *IN BRIEF:*  At 4.30pm local time Thursday Thailands  army took over in the countrys 12th coup detat since 1932. The  military has ordered a nationwide curfew from 10pm to 5am.
> *
> +++ALL TIMES LOCAL BANGKOK TIME+++* *
> 8.58pm:* A number of Democrat Party members, including leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, are still being detained by the military:
> 
> Democrats that are still detained:       - Abhisit Vejjajiva  - Juti Krairiksh  - Sirichok Sopha   - Nipit Intarasombat - Chamni Sakdisek
> *
> 8.52pm:* One of the deputy PMs under the Yingluck Shinawatra government Chalerm Yuumbumrung is reportedly in detention: 
> 
> ...


9.01pm Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha announced that the last businessman to leave Thailand should switch off the lights.

----------


## Topper

Schools out Friday to Sunday Published: 22 May 2014 at 21.09 | Viewed: 0 | Comments: 0Online news: Writer: Online Reporters The military's National Peace and Order Maintaining Council (NPOMC) has ordered... 

Please credit and share this article with others using this link:Schools out Friday to Sunday | Bangkok Post: Most recent. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved.

----------


## buriramboy

> The most important effect of the coup that everyone has failed to consider is this:
> 
> Will the schools be open tomorrow or will I get to stay home and drink beer?


zerohedge ‏@zerohedge  · 34s  
THAI ARMY ORDERS CLOSURE OF SCHOOLS, UNIVERSITIES MAY 23-25.

----------


## Topper

Schools out Friday to Sunday Published: 22 May 2014 at 21.09 | Viewed: 0 | Comments: 0Online news: Writer: Online Reporters The military's National Peace and Order Maintaining Council (NPOMC) has ordered... 

Please credit and share this article with others using this link:Schools out Friday to Sunday | Bangkok Post: Most recent. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Will the schools be open tomorrow or will I get to stay home and drink beer?


You still go to school?

----------


## Bettyboo

Retweeted by Tulip Naksompop
 StrontiumDog ‏@StrontiumDog1  31m
Vast amount of people walking along Phahonyothin road in Ratchayothin, traffic extremely heavy....

It just doesn't get any better than that!  :Smile:

----------


## 9999

> Will the schools be open tomorrow or will I get to stay home and drink beer?


Schools officially shut! Get on it, you got til 10 PM!

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by Mr Lick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by nidhogg
> ...





> *Asian Correspondent*     ‏@*AsCorrespondent*  3m #*THAILAND* 
> 
> UPDATE: Reports say that Chalerm Yuumbumrung, a deputy PM under Yingluck, was detained by army at his home http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874/thailand-coup-live/


Now, that is damn good news. I wonder if they're going to have a look at his bank accounts and track those funds that went off to HK etc.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> quite impressive and somewhat frightening really, that in the space of six or seven hours, they can literally close down a modern country of 70 million and almost shut it off from the outside world.
> 
> and the tv stations broadcasting non stop cold war style  military anthems just adds to the surreal nature of it all.
> 
> i think i feel a novel coming on !!


Sounds to me you feel (a long neglected) hard on coming on.

----------


## can123

> Everybody wanted action to be taken one way the other. Well it happened big time. To me a lot of time and preparation has gone into this. Arresting the leaders while they were on military land is something else.


I can see why "time and preparation" would have been needed in order to bring about the coup. I suppose that it had to happen at some time but why now ? Things seem to have been reasonably stable over the last couple of weeks and the likelihood of large scale violent confrontations seemed to have been greatly reduced.

It could be said that the Army has been even handed by acting to prevent the various factions from meeting head on. The removal  of all leaders regardless of political persuasion would seem to be a clever move if peace was the sole objective.

This takes me back to my question, "why now ?"  I have a feeling that Prayuth has acted wisely but not solely because of the quest for peace following the recent difficulties. I have a very strong gut feeling that there is another reason and that this will be made known at daybreak tomorrow.

----------


## Yasojack

Political reforms means change in Electoral borders expect AV to be the next elected PM. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Seekingasylum

> ^^^ sad news if true.
> 
> Despite the troubles in the last 6 months, there has not been many deaths; too many, and avoidable, but not on a massive scale.
> 
> &, the recent red shirt protests have been peaceful and trouble/violence free.


Don't recall you being so solicitous when Thaksin was setting about killing 2000 men, women and children during his war against drug dealers which conspicuously managed to avoid targeting the main dealers including his senior police officers.

Johnny come lately chap, are you?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by tomta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Zooheekock
> ...


Number one question for the State Dept Presser - but the N Korea thing will overshadow (on purpose at DC end of course) resulting in some messy answer with no follo

----------


## Dandyhole

> French president Hollande "condemns takeover of power by the Army"


That's good, means he will get it on the next UN meeting agenda

Possible that PM is in French Embassy then

----------


## Yasojack

Gent you forgot the Army generals and co.




> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> ^^^ sad news if true.
> 
> Despite the troubles in the last 6 months, there has not been many deaths; too many, and avoidable, but not on a massive scale.
> 
> &, the recent red shirt protests have been peaceful and trouble/violence free.
> 
> ...

----------


## aging one

> Political reforms means change in Electoral borders expect AV to be the next elected PM.


please tell me what that means, what are you trying to say?

----------


## Bettyboo

> Don't recall you being so solicitous when Thaksin was setting about killing 2000 men, women and children during his war against drug dealers which conspicuously managed to avoid targeting the main dealers including his senior police officers.
> 
> Johnny come lately chap, are you?


???

I certainly do/did not support the 'war on drugs' that came from the top, through the generals to Thaksin and was completely supported, sadly, by virtually every element in society. An awful time.

That has nothing to do with this thread or my comment, however.

----------


## taxexile

> but why now ?


the discovery of many large caches of war weapons linked mostly to the reds, and the increasing fractiousness between the red and yellow camps, or at least the extremist hangers on associated with both camps and under the control of god knows who gave the army good reason to take control.

dont know where it will go from here, with such huge seemingly irreconcilable differences between the protagonists and neither side willing to compromise, i guess it will eventually end up under the carpet just like every other time.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Trusted sources tell me this was known (though without all details) two weeks ago. And they (yellows) have been stocking up for a two week siege if required like ATM and food. Prayuth apparently went to the big house today for accord

Can't say more than that - and this is UNCONFIRMED

----------


## Yasojack

Jeez do i need to spell it out.

They change the electoral borders to suit the dems its already been proposed before.

Bit like what thatcher did in the UK.




> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> Political reforms means change in Electoral borders expect AV to be the next elected PM.
> 
> 
> please tell me what that means, what are you trying to say?

----------


## leemo

711s in Jomtien are closing at 10, CIMB bureau closed already (usually open till late), looks like some businesses are respecting the curfew.

How's it look in Walking Street? Would our guardians save face by arresting 80k farangs?

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> Political reforms means change in Electoral borders expect AV to be the next elected PM.
> 
> 
> please tell me what that means, what are you trying to say?


He loves Marky and what he stands for..??

Just guessing.

----------


## Yasojack

Supposedly linked to reds?????




> but why now ?
> 			
> 		
> 
> the discovery of many large caches of war weapons linked mostly to the reds, and the increasing fractiousness between the red and yellow camps, or at least the extremist hangers on associated with both camps and under the control of god knows who gave the army good reason to take control.
> 
> dont know where it will go from here, with such huge seemingly irreconcilable differences between the protagonists and neither side willing to compromise, i guess it will eventually end up under the carpet just like every other time.

----------


## KimDidMeGood

> Originally Posted by KimDidMeGood
> 
> 
> French president Hollande "condemns takeover of power by the Army"
> 
> 
> That's good, means he will get it on the next UN meeting agenda
> 
> Possible that PM is in French Embassy then


PM has reportedly announced he and other remaining cabinet members will report to coup leaders tommorow at 9.00 AM

----------


## Rural Surin

> Trusted sources tell me this was known (though without all details) two weeks ago. And they (yellows) have been stocking up for a two week siege if required like ATM and food. Prayuth apparently went to the big house today for accord
> 
> Can't say more than that - and this is UNCONFIRMED


 
Well, sure....

No one in their right mind might even consider that these current activities were spontaneous. :Smile: 

You're on the ball with your _trusted unconfirmed sources_, TS........and the unnecessary rhetoric.

----------


## larvidchr

Just called a Mate bar owner on the darkside in Pattaya, the police has been and told them to close shop, so far just for tonight they had said.

----------


## StrontiumDog

Army details curfew exemptions-Bangkok Post 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/most-rece...few-exemptions

----------


## Zooheekock

Life under military rule. Masked soldiers at Dr Weng's house

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Latest declaration is only Army TV to be aired.

Anyone still in any doubt about any of this?

----------


## StrontiumDog

> Supposedly linked to reds?????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> ...


RT @*Nalinee_PLE*: ทราบชื่อน.ส.จันทนา วรากรสกุลกิจ พกบัตร staff นปช. รวมพลคนประชาธิปไตย และบัตรการ์ด นปช. no.3084 pic.twitter.com/tAOTXh3P3c

 

RT @*Nalinee_PLE*: 19.ตะปูเกลียว-ลวดพร้อมทำระเบิดแสวงเครื่องจำนวนหนึ่ง 20.กระสุนขนาด.38จำนวน1กล่อง  ขอบคุณภาพจาก บก.02 pic.twitter.com/HTFIQicTH0

 
 
ทหารตรวจค้นได้ที่ห้องเลขที่ 3-4 หอพักNCO ซ.สวนหลวง ถ.สวนหลวง เขตกระทุ่มแบน กทม. pic.twitter.com/KZNIDY6QVs

  

RT @*Nalinee_PLE*: 3.เครื่องยิงเอ็ม79 จำนวน1กบ.พร้อมลย.40มม.จำนวน 9 นัด 4.ปืนเอ็มพีจำนวน1กบ. พร้อมซอง3ซอง,กระสุน48นัด pic.twitter.com/GdiIKEosyE

 

  

 

RT @*GVSRsiam*: Chantra Warakorskulkij, admits firearms found in her room are for self protection, Red Shirt ID belongs to friend via @*Tui_ThaiPBS*:

----------


## can123

> the discovery of many large caches of war weapons linked mostly to the reds, and the increasing fractiousness between the red and yellow camps, or at least the extremist hangers on associated with both camps and under the control of god knows who gave the army good reason to take control.


The discovery of weapons is not a good enough reason for the effective arrest of all the politicians. This has never happened before and has  been done for a reason which will become apparent soon.

----------


## Zooheekock

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> Supposedly linked to reds?????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That news is from a few days ago and it's neither 'many' nor 'large'.

----------


## nidhogg

> If its unconfirmed why would we want to hear more, Sawer?


No offense, but to explain myself.  I live close to one of the flash points, and my main concern is making sure my family is safe.  Now, me and Tom are as far apart as can be, but, and this is a big but, despie Toms rhetoric, I think he lives in Thailand and is as concerned for his loved ones as I am for mine.  

When the shit hits the fan I would rather look at Toms posts, and see what he says than some armchiar dosser who lives in Detroit or elsewhere..

----------


## taxexile

> arrest of all the politicians.


doubt if its a handcuffs bread and water style arrest, probably removed for their own safety.  rumoured that suthep has been taken to a safe house due to an assassination threat.

----------


## Seekingasylum

The army intelligence seems to have been spot on in locating those caches of weapons and their stop/search efforts on the streets. Presumably, this time around they have had the sense to infiltrate Thaksin's rabble group before they embarked on the usual mayhem.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Stand up Thai People this is your country. Don't be scared


They're not [scared]
They're mostly indifferent.
They understand that it's just another day in paradise.


'Tis the outsider and unaware that find it novel and of serious note.


Why don't you [and your intense ilk] stand up and see where that leads - if you are so concerned about it.

----------


## 9999

Just when we thought normal TV is back, it's a pro army lakorn beaming on all channels  :rofl:

----------


## taxexile

> That news is from a few days ago and it's neither 'many' nor 'large'.


its large enough to allow a pick up full of red or yellow meatheads to do a lot of damage.

they have been finding this stuff on a daily basis, and for every one they find there are probably a dozen yet to be found

----------


## nidhogg

Now all my True channels are showing the same Tv drama???

----------


## Topper

> Now all my True channels are showing the same Tv drama???


Saves them remote batteries, doesn't it!

----------


## Zooheekock

> they have been finding this stuff on a daily basis, and for every one they find there are probably a dozen yet to be found


They've been catching PDRC people with guns on a regular basis (not daily but regularly enough) but not reds.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Latest declaration is only Army TV to be aired.
> 
> Anyone still in any doubt about any of this?


 
Well......

Get out [way out] of BKK metro.
You'll surely find things [and life] different - not affected.

Than if the city life is all you know, then......whatever.

----------


## StrontiumDog

Agree that this was obviously not spontaneous and actually there is no justification for this coup (but is there ever?). 

Suthep will no doubt see this as some sort of victory. 

I see it as yet another sad day in Thailand's history. A massive backward step. 

But you just feel it was all set up a while ago. And the reasoning for this draconian coup is somewhat bizarre. So what is the real reason?

However, it can also be seen that the Thai police had been utterly inept or incompetent in arresting any suspects involved in the many acts of murder that have occurred. The children murdered in Trat and at Ratchaprasong for example (the Ratchaprasong murders being particularly suspect in such a heavily CCTV monitored area). 28 dead and 700 injured and hardly anyone even questioned? Nah, something isn't right....

Interestingly the army had pounced on a few people, a day after taking over, who were obviously known about (see the above photos). 

But I guess some will still argue that the Thai police weren't owned by Thaksin loyalists....some who are utterly clueless and deluded. 

So law and order was a joke. There was no justice. But did it demand such a response as this? I don't think so.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Agree that this was obviously not spontaneous and actually there is no justification for this coup (but is there ever?). 
> 
> Suthep will no doubt see this as some sort of victory. 
> 
> I see it as yet another sad day in Thailand's history. A massive backward step. 
> 
> But you just feel it was all set up a while ago. And the reasoning for this draconian coup is somewhat bizarre. So what is the real reason?
> 
> However, it can also be seen that the Thai police had been utterly inept or incompetent in arresting any suspects involved in the many acts of murder that have occurred. The children murdered in Trat and at Ratchaprasong for example (the Ratchaprasong murders being particularly suspect in such a heavily CCTV monitored area). 28 dead and 700 injured and hardly anyone even questioned? Nah, something isn't right....
> ...


The establishment is one and the same - either sides.

Don't you get this??

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> Now all my True channels are showing the same Tv drama???
> 
> 
> Saves them remote batteries, doesn't it!


yeah, but I missed The Simpsons!!

----------


## Yasojack

Home
Martial law prompts ban on political expression in universities, censorship in bookstores
Wed, 21/05/2014 - 23:28 | by prachatai
Suluck Lamubol

A university in northern Thailand has issued an order prohibiting students and staff from expressing political opinions or carrying out political gatherings, amidst some protests against martial law in Bangkok, Ubon Ratchathani and Chiang Mai provinces.  

The order followed the army’s enactment of martial law on Tuesday that prevents academics or government officials from expressing on all media political opinions that can cause “misunderstanding” and “rifts”. 

A planned public seminar by Chiang Mai University's faculty of law on martial law was also cancelled on Wednesday, because the organizer was not allowed to use the university's facility. 


Candlelit vigil at the Bangkok Art and Cultural Center opposing martial law

At least 14 television stations have also been ordered to close down since Tuesday, along with six community radio stations.   

After the northern region army commander summoned senior government officials to ask for “cooperation” on Tuesday, the Rector of Naresuan University in Phitsanulok Province prohibited its staff and students from taking part in political activities or giving interviews to the radio or television.  

Despite the prohibition, dozens of academics and students in Chiang Mai, including the renowned historian Nidhi Eowsriwong, gathered at Thapae Gate at the city centre, and held placards opposing coups and martial law. Similar events were held at Ubon Ratchathani University and the Bangkok Art and Culture Centre in Bangkok on Tuesday evening. 


Gathering in Chiangmai opposing martial law

Martial law, a 100-year-old law used in war situations, gives the army supreme power to shut down radio stations and television channels and to search or detain any person up to seven days, among other measures to “control peace and order.”

Kinokuniya, one of the biggest bilingual bookstores in Thailand, decided to take a number of books on Thai politics off the shelves, citing the need to follow the army’s announcement. The Kinokuniya store representative told Prachatai that they chose to remove books that contain “political conflict” deemed causing “rifts” in society. 

The store did not name the titles taken down, but sources said that some were historical books about the Free Thai Movement in World War II, among other academic analyses of Thai politics. 

Meanwhile, an activist bookstore in Chiang Mai was greeted by different groups of police and soldiers Wednesday morning. The store’s owner was warned not to hold any activity or discussion about the situation, or she would be detained at an infantry barracks for up to seven days. 

Rodjaraeng Wattana, owner of Book Re :Razz: ublic, a bookstore known for its frequent public forums about political and social issues, said she was told that if any public discussion took place, the soldiers would have to secure the store. 

“We know that we have been on the ‘watch list’ for a long time. Now that martial law is declared, it’s certainly automatic that we would be threatened like this," she said.

----------


## StrontiumDog

[quote=Zooheekock;2780539]


> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> Supposedly linked to reds?????
> 
> RT @*GVSRsiam*: Chantra Warakorskulkij, admits firearms found in her room are for self protection, Red Shirt ID belongs to friend via @*Tui_ThaiPBS*:
> 
> 
> That news is from a few days ago and it's neither 'many' nor 'large'.


It's from yesterday.............

----------


## Seekingasylum

Tom, you are getting hysterical. It's just another revolution in the wheel of tedium that is Thai politics. Government here is all closed doors, back room deals and winks being tipped. Get with the programme and stop with all this poor vs. the rich democracy crap. Wrong country, wrong time.

----------


## Zooheekock

Summary from Siam Intelligence Unit 




> Whats Happened
> 
>     A coup by The Army Chief, General Prayuth Chan-ocha.
>     Political leaders from both side are in control/custody by the army. The list includes Suthep Thaugsuban (PDRC leader), Abhisit Vejjajiva (Ex-PM and opposition leader), key ministers in Pheu Thai government, 5 key red shirt leaders.
>     Some red shirt leaders throughout the country are in custody.
>     Acting PM Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan is missing. As we know currently, he is not in the army control.
>     2007 Constitution is now defunct. The Cabinet is gone.
>     The junta keep the senate and the justice courts.
>     All TV stations are under controlled. Normal programs are replaced by military graphic.
> ...

----------


## StrontiumDog

> they have been finding this stuff on a daily basis, and for every one they find there are probably a dozen yet to be found
> 			
> 		
> 
> They've been catching PDRC people with guns on a regular basis (not daily but regularly enough) but not reds.


I wonder why no reds until now? Oh yeah.......

Both sides have been armed. Many, no doubt, still are.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Siam Intelligence Unit is it? I rather think the analysts at Paddy Power could do better between the 3.15 at Chepstow and the last race at Uttoxeter.

It's a re-hash but this time around no room for a Thaksin proxy government.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> knows better and will tell us what is right for them.


Problem is, like children they don't know what's right for themselves.. Children raising and running the government like children..

----------


## StrontiumDog

*แก้วมาลา Kaewmala*     ‏@*Thai_Talk*  53m 

Pichai Rattakul, former Dem leader, presses Dem Party to make a stand opposing military coup. pic.twitter.com/yDGYo51lbw via @*nakhon224*

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Richard Barrow*     ‏@*RichardBarrow*  18m 

Front page of tomorrow’s The Nation newspaper: Army Chief Prayuth Siezes Power (Via @*veen_NT*) #*Thailand* #*ThaiCoup* pic.twitter.com/CBLQ4sLdSJ

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Deadlock forces Prayuth to go for coup | Bangkok Post: news

Deadlock forces Prayuth to go for coup

Published: 22 May 2014 at 20.40 | 

Online news: PoliticsWriter: Online Reporters

*At 4.30pm om Thursday the armed forces led by army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha declared a coup. 

The army chief, flanked by all armed forces leaders, made the public announcement after the talks to break the political impasse at the Army Club showed no sign of moving ahead.

In fact, Gen Prayuth made the decision inside the meeting room.

A source at the meeting said Gen Prayuth decided to make the move after he asked caretaker Justice Minister Chaikasem Nitisiri whether the caretaker government and cabinet would resign and the answer from the lead negotiator of the government was "no" as of that moment.

Gen Prayuth then announced that he decided to seize administrative power, the source quoted him as telling the meeting.

He then asked all five commissioners of the Election Commission (EC) and the Senate to leave the venue. The rest - 20 altogether - were taken to the 1st Division, King's Guard, to be under the army's custody at the nearby barracks. They represented the United Front for Democracy againist Dictatorship, the People's Democratic Reform Committee, the Pheu Thai Party and the Democrat Party.

The meeting brokered by Gen Prayuth entered the second day on Thursday with the central issue on the resignation of Niwuttumrong Boonsongpaisan and his cabinet. The resignation would clear the way for the setting up of an interim government and prime minister to work out reform and a new election. Another key issue was when new polls should be held.

Mr Niwattumrong said earlier at the Commerce Ministry that his position to stay in power remained unchanged. He left the ministry to go to the Pheu Thai head office at 4pm and then went to an unknown location after the coup was stage.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Sterling trading at 54.94. Every cloud and all that.....

----------


## Yasojack

Prayuth 2 days ago said this is definitely not a Coup. Was he telling porkies :Smile: 

He planned the meeting and the arrests, who's he fekking kidding

----------


## tomta

> doubt if its a handcuffs bread and water style arrest, probably removed for their own safety. rumoured that suthep has been taken to a safe house due to an assassination threat.


No, I think he's been taken to the celebration party.

----------


## Necron99

Setanta had better be back up and running on True by Wednesday or there will be real trouble....

----------


## Seekingasylum

Sorry Zoohee, your input is always valued and posting that link all adds to the grist. Nevertheless, it did remind me of the hoary old criticism of consultants who borrow your watch to tell you the time. Thai politics follows no doctrine, has no ideology, no manifesto and are as transparent as a mud hole. Speculating upon what happens next in the Thai snake pit is as worthwhile an activity as eviscerating a chicken and betting on an outcome according to the size of the gizzard.

Mind you, if those boys in the Siam crystal ball club are turning a penny on their prognostications then all power to them. Don't make them right though does it.

Oops, where's your post gone?

----------


## Drainpipe

Lasting change coming.....

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Thailand coup: Analysts warn military faces challenges in days ahead*

                                       Published on May 22, 2014 8:14 PM                                               

 
                          Thai soldiers stand guard during a coup at the Army Club where  Thailand's army chief held a meeting with all rival factions in central  Bangkok on Thursday, May 22, 2014. -- PHOTO: REUTERS        

By Nirmal Ghosh, Indochina Bureau Chief In Bangkok

It was an easy seizure of power, with major political faction  leaders in one room at the Royal Thai Army Club in Bangkok, and clearly  unable to agree on any formula that could offer a solution from the  country's seven-month political crisis which has brought it perilously  close to civil war.

 Mr Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the opposition Democrat Party, wrote  on his Facebook page from the meeting room that army chief General  Prayuth Chan-ocha asked acting minister of justice Chaikasem Nitisiri:  "So the government agreed not to resign, individually and as  institution, is it correct?"

 Mr Chaikasem answered: "Until this minute, (we) are not to resign."

 General Prayuth then said: "Okay, then from this minute, I decide to  seize power. Election Commission and Senators please leave the room.''

 It is Thailand's 12th successful coup d'etat since the country  switched from an absolute monarchy to a constitutional monarchy in 1932.  There had been another nine unsuccessful coup attempts.

 The last coup d'etat was in 2006 when the army threw out then-premier  Thaksin Shinawatra, again the target of anti-government protesters this  time around.

 The seizure of power happened in just a few minutes. Army trucks were  swiftly mobilised to entrances at the Army Club. Faction leaders were  bundled into vans and taken away, with an anxious media pack held at bay  by apologetic soldiers.

 Shortly afterwards at 5pm local time, TV screens which had gone blank  minutes before broadcast General Prayuth, a member of the elite  "Burapha Phayak'' or "Eastern Tigers" clique of the army, announcing  that the armed forces had seized power in the name of security and  stability.  

 But analysts warn that the days ahead will be fraught with uncertainty.

 "This is not the 60s and 70s,'' one analyst said, asking not to be  named in a sign of rising apprehension over the draconian measures  invoked by the army chief.

 "The 2006 coup was already out of place. That was the last time  people looked the other way and accepted it. But this is not the same  Thailand. People will not sit still any more.''

 Political science professor Thitinan Pongsudhirak told The Straits  Times that it was unsurprising "that the martial law degenerated into a  full blown coup...given the entrenched positions of the two main sides  of the divide.''  He also cautioned that experience indicated that in  the 21st century, it was difficult for a military coup to succeed.

 Chulalongkorn University professor of political science Pitch  Pongsawat said: "Now it is going to be suppression. They will not  contain the (pro-government) red shirts any more, they will suppress  them. It will be General Prayuth's version of peace.''

 But he warned "the military can't rule the people, they need the legitimacy and they don't have it.''

 ''With this route to power - arresting all the leaders - who can trust them?''


  - See more at:  Thailand coup: Analysts warn military faces challenges in days ahead

----------


## StrontiumDog

*That Military Coup In Thailand Could Get Awkward For The US | Business Insider
*
*That Military Coup In Thailand Could Get Awkward For The US*

Armin Rosen             Tomorrow at 1:45 AM                                                                                                                       

Soldiers  block the access to the Army Club where Thailand’s army chief held a  meeting with all rival factions during a coup in central Bangkok on May  22, 2014

 Today’s military coup in Thailand presents a dilemma for the United States.

 Thailand is a major non-NATO ally, on par with Egypt, the Philippines and Israel. It hosts  Cobra Gold, one of the world’s largest annual military exercises and a  lynchpin of U.S.-led regional military cooperation. The Thai and U.S.  governments conduct over 40 other joint military exercises each year.

 The Thai government also receives excess defence articles, or  military equipment that the U.S. no longer wants. In 2012, Thailand used  its EDA procurement abilities to obtain  75 utility trucks from the U.S. military, several M930 military-grade  dump trucks, and five Pratt and Whitney-made aircraft engines.

 As this chart from a Federation of American Scientists report  on U.S. Thai relations demonstrates, the U.S. provides several million  dollars of various forms of military assistance to Thailand each year.



 This is a small fraction of the hundreds of millions or even billions  in assistance that other U.S. allies receive. But the U.S. gets a  notable strategic dividend in return for its cooperation.

 As a member of the broader U.S.-led security alliance in Asia,  Thailand is important to the Obama administration’s “pivot to Asia,” a  shift in U.S. diplomacy, defence policy, and broader strategy in  anticipation of the increasing importance of China, India, and other  emerging Pacific nations. Military aid could help directly counter  Chinese influence in the country.

 Thailand also served as a staging area for the U.S. military’s humanitarian efforts after the 2004 southeast Asian Tsunami and following Cyclone Nargis in Burma, in 2008.

 The U.S.’s own laws, specifically Section 508 of the Foreign Assistance Act, prevent  it from providing military aid to a government that takes power from  the previous “duly elected” leadership by coup. After Thailand’s 2006  coup, the U.S. suspended most military aid while maintaining other forms  of assistance and keeping up its high-level relationship with Thai  officials — a response widely viewed as “relatively mild.” The 2007  edition of Cobra Gold went through as planned, for instance.

 The U.S. faced a similarly delicate situation when the Egyptian  military helped remove Muslim Brotherhood leader Mohammed Morsi from the  country’s presidency in June of 2013. The U.S. officials pointedly  refrained from using the word “coup” to describe events in Cairo. But  the U.S. still withheld significant amounts of aid, withdrawing loan guarantees and halting scheduled transfers of Apache helicopters and F-16s.

 Over the next few days, officials at the Defence and State  departments will have to decide whether Thailand is now ineligible for  U.S. military aid — and how to manage the U.S.’s strategic interests in  the country light of its legal obligation not to support military  putschists.

----------


## Bettyboo

> The meeting brokered by Gen Prayuth entered the second day on Thursday with the central issue on the resignation of Niwuttumrong Boonsongpaisan and his cabinet. The resignation would clear the way for the setting up of an interim government and prime minister to work out reform and a new election.





> Gen Prayuth decided to make the move after he asked caretaker Justice Minister Chaikasem Nitisiri whether the caretaker government and cabinet would resign and the answer from the lead negotiator of the government was "no" as of that moment.


These quotes are very clear:

The army wanted the gvt to resign, so that they/the senate could appoint a government, this has always been the PAD stance, and it has been supported at every turn by the EC, CC, dems, and senate, now very directly, by the army.

It's just a continuation from 2006, but this time they will go much further. Expect an extreme new constitution which massively changes the political climate in their sponsors favour. Lots of detentions going on now, media people being detained too.

I wonder how strong the Americans and others will be against this coup? 

A former military man/PC man will be appointed over the next week or less, and they will go about taking all the pie for the foreseeable future.

Look how well the army performed today - how very easy it be for them to have held elections if they had wanted to... This has all been staged and planned; there was no violence, there was no problem in the country until suthep started it, and abhisit pulled out of elections, and the CC banned PT and the EC refused to do their job, etc - it's virtually identical to 2006.

Look how that last 2007 constitution was written to be abused by them as they wished (and they did), and now they will go much further... Look at how Kasit, a mouthpiece for the PAdites, dems and now the army has being calling PT and the Reds the 'Thai Muslim Brotherhood' on the BBC, and he will continue his propaganda tour over the coming days as they ramp up the rhetoric - look what is happening in Egypt with massive groups of 50+ being sentenced to death for supporting a legally elected government...

This is a very serious event, not just another day in Thailand.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Chulalongkorn University professor of political science Pitch Pongsawat said: "*Now it is going to be suppression. They will not contain the (pro-government) red shirts any more, they will suppress them. It will be General Prayuth's version of peace*.''


.....

----------


## Zooheekock

Nomura now believe sustained violence is a real possibility




> Third, the red shirts now appear to have the capacity not only to bring large-scale protests to the streets but also, we believe, to pursue a serious insurgency from its heartlands in the north of the country. The former could of itself be serious, considering the impact civil unrest has been having in over a dozen countries worldwide over the past 12 months or so; but the latter could be even more damaging, given the difficulty the army has had over the past decade or so grappling with an Islamic insurgency in the south. If the red shirts conclude that they will never be allowed to prevail through the ballot box, direct action of one sort or another is likely to look to be the only option open to them.

----------


## jamescollister

Haven't read the thread, but all the males in my village have gone to the jungle,  not a TV or light on here.  Lao land border, lots of weapons in in the mountains, not a good sign. 
Think the military needs to pull back a bit, border troops and cops are locals and commies. Things may get bad, hope not, but when the AKs come out, problems. Jim

----------


## Seekingasylum

The assumption in that analysis is that the red shirts are a force in itself to be reckoned with and comprises a section of society which is both coherent and has an agenda. All fine and dandy if it were true, but it is nothing of the sort. Thaksin created it, funded it and nurtured it but just as his last gambit has come to naught so will the so-called red shirt movement.

Nomura seem to be no better than the Siam Crystal Ball Club.

----------


## Bangyai

> The big picture of this coup is conservative forces consolidate their power. The red shirts movement is too dangerous for the sake of the Kingdom and needs to be gotten rid of. The hard liner generals now run the show and we should expect the bad outcome.
> 
> What to Expect


[/quote]

Nothing special .......something along the lines of Tak Bai......only nationwide  :Confused: 

It must be crystal clear to everyone by now that far from ' fixing ' the problem,
this coup will make things a lot worse than the previous coup has over the intervening period. 

Thailand is now entering a dark age from which it will take a long long time to recover . From being one of the leading countries in SE Asian it is going to slide down to where Burma was previously. This coup will undoubtably succeed in finally killing off Thaksins hope of any further involvement in Thai politics but at such a high price . The people of the South and Bangkok may rejoice now but when the economic effects of this coup bite home , they will have less to laugh about.

Thailands experiment with democracy and quasi civilization is over. Reform all you like and hold elections whenever you want but nobody will give a toss and they will just be a hollow sham that impress or fool nobody.

 :Confused:

----------


## FloridaBorn

> I wonder how strong the Americans and others will be against this coup?


One thing is for certain, no matter how the US reacts, we'll be vilified for it..  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## robuzo

"Third, the red shirts now appear to have the capacity not only to bring large-scale protests to the streets but also, we believe, to pursue a serious insurgency from its heartlands in the north of the country. . .the latter could be even more damaging" The reds don't stand a chance in the capital IMO, but the army could find themselves very unwelcome in some major northern towns. I wonder how the military plans to cope with this, or if at this point they are entirely focused on securing Bangkok.

----------


## Dandyhole

^USDept of Defense to review military support and engagements as a result of coup

----------


## FloridaBorn

> That news is from a few days ago and it's neither 'many' nor 'large'.
> 			
> 		
> 
> its large enough to allow a pick up full of red or yellow meatheads to do a lot of damage.
> 
> they have been finding this stuff on a daily basis, and for every one they find there are probably a dozen yet to be found


Never did recover that cache that was stolen during the last confrontation did they? Certainly it's all over the country by now..

----------


## can123

> Thaksin created it, funded it and nurtured it but just as his last gambit has come to naught so will the so-called red shirt movement.


If you are correct, the Red Shirts will agree with you and walk away with their tails between their legs. Somehow I do not see that happening. The real tragedy is that there will be loss of life regardless of the merits of the cause of either side. I am very worried by what Jim has said above.

----------


## baldrick

> I wonder how strong the Americans


if you listened to the perspicacious tom you would know that the seppos are behind the coup - conspiring with their amart hiso chinky mates

----------


## baldrick

> to suspend critical thinking


it _is_ the thought that counts

----------


## Seekingasylum

Oops, not an article likely to remain for long or to even gain a wider readership within the Kingdom.

----------


## flyfisher davis

> *Thailand coup: Pro-Thaksin 'Red Shirt' leader says will not end protest*
> May 22, 2014 
> 
>  
> _Pro-government "red shirt" protest leader Jatuporn Prompan during a  conference at his encampment in Nakhon Pathom province on the outskirts  of Bangkok on May 22, 2014. _ 
> PHOTO: REUTERS        
> 
> *BANGKOK* (REUTERS) - The leader of Thailand's pro-government "Red  Shirts" said the political group would continue its rally on the  outskirts of Bangkok despite the military seizing control of the  government in a coup on Thursday and telling all protest groups to  disperse.
> 
> ...


Guess he isn't running his mouth now is he...! Him Or anyone else for that matter. :bananaman:

----------


## Dandyhole

EU now expressing extreme concern over today's events , military must respect constitution and return civilian power

----------


## StrontiumDog

EU statement

http://www.eeas.europa.eu/statements...0522_03_en.pdf

22 May 2014

140522/03

S  T  A  T  E  M  E  N  T

by the Spokesperson on military takeover in Thailand

"We are following developments in Thailand with extreme concern. 

The military must accept and   respect   the   constitutional   authority   of  the   civilian   power   as   a   basic   principle   of democratic  governance.  

International  human  rights  standards,  including  media  freedom, must be upheld. 

It is of the utmost importance that Thailand returns rapidly to the legitimate  democratic process. 

In this respect, we stress the importance of holding credible and inclusive elections as soon as feasible.

We  call  upon  all  parties  to  exercise  restraint  and  work  together  in  the  interest  of  the country."

----------


## xanax

> Oops, not an article likely to remain for long or to even gain a wider readership within the Kingdom.


Interesting article, the film clip of the dog party is still on YT.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Sukhumvit Road - Bangkok.

A wander from Soi 4 (Nana) down to Asoke and back up to Soi 3.

10pm - 10.30pm (after curfew  :Smile:   )





























Don't believe the hype.
 :Smile:

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

Nice copy Rolex!

----------


## Breny

What about the south of LOS, there has been how many thousand killed due to insurgents, Will this now become a bigger problem if the Army is concentrated in Bkk and Northern provinces?  Or will it be a nice time to tackle the problem?

----------


## Dandyhole

German Foreign Minister Steinmeier condems Coup, quick elections essential.

----------


## Exit Strategy

Sitrep Northern Bangkok. Everything is as usual as of midnight, went to Seven, all fine but strained faces.

Internet and electricity working and why not it would be a suicide to kill services essential to economy. Lines are hot. I am running out of excuses here. Investor confidence is gone. This is not about some 30 pips. We are issued satellite BGAN terminals (Nera) for just this kind of thing so you can't shut us down.

I am glad my family is now safe red up country.  

US reaction?

----------


## Dandyhole

Reuters reports Pentagon reviewing military assistance and engagements , _including an ongoing exercise involving 700 US marines and sailors?_

----------


## pickel

> "PDRC protesters cheered at news of full coup."


Looks similar to the red shirts cheering the deaths in Trat a couple months ago, except they have better hygeine.

----------


## Dandyhole

Kerry says negative implications for US-thai relations including militarily.- bbc

----------


## KimDidMeGood

> Kerry says negative implications for US-thai relations including militarily.- bbc


Kerry's statement is surprinsingly much stronger than I expected. Except that it doesn't include the word "coup". But the disapproval is quite unambiguous.
But, obviously, words are just that: words.

----------


## pickel

The only thing closed on Koh Chang is the 7-11's. Tesco's are still open, as well as all the bars.

----------


## larvidchr

Hmmm this late night news from Pattaya one might be a lonely bird, I certainly hope so.



*EXCLUSIVE: Royal Thai Navy seize control of Pattaya Police Station*

  Posted on May 23, 2014 at 12:57 am 



                         In the hours after the Curfew was imposed in Pattaya and the rest  of Thailand, reports came in of a seizure of Pattaya Police Station by  members of the Royal Thai Navy, based in Sattahip, late on Thursday  Night.
 The whereabouts of the Pattaya Police Chief, Police Colonel Supachai,  is currently unknown but he is thought to be somewhere in Bangkok with  his wife, Khun Juriporn, who is reported to have close affiliations with  the Red Shirt Protesters.
 Because of the Curfew, journalists were prevented from taking  pictures at the Police Station and it is currently unclear if Pattaya  Police Officers will work in conjunction with Navy Officers or if the  role of policing Pattaya has been completely transferred to the Navy.
  






If not it will be interesting to see how this supposedly "evenhanded" security operation coup will continue to play their wholeheartedly neutral for the good of Thailand hand  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): , can we expect to see senior police army and navy officers with yellowshirt affiliated wifes having their posts taken over :mid:   I really hope they got the wife speculations wrong on this at Pattaya one. Else this is getting nuttier by the min.  :Smile:

----------


## Exit Strategy

Kerry was actually very straight here, including the word 'coup'

"There is no justification for this military coup," Kerry said in a statement".

Green for Kerry and Steinmeier too.

----------


## Dandyhole

Prayuth appoints himself de-facto PM?

----------


## wasabi

On the English news tonight the Thai army is shutting down numerous media channels, didn't know there where so many.
Here is hoping they switch Thai Visa off air.

----------


## StrontiumDog

This is looking very very bad indeed....

http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874...and-coup-live/

*2.40am:* Two other announcements have been aired in  the middle of the night: the first one summons 23 people of the ousted  Shinawatra family, Pheu Thai Party executives and their associates.

  The other one is targeting online and social media users:

_Coup maker ordered all ISPs to "keep track, monitor, stop the dissemination of online info" (as specified)_



*12.40am:* The United States Secretary of State John  Kerry has expressed “disappointment,” sees “no justification” for the  military coup and states that the US will be reviewing their aid and  other programs to Thailand. Here’s the full statement:_I am disappointed by the decision of the Thai military to  suspend the constitution and take control of the government after a  long period of political turmoil, and there is no justification for this  military coup. I am concerned by reports that senior political leaders  of Thailand’s major parties have been detained and call for their  release. I am also concerned that media outlets have been shut down. I  urge the restoration of civilian government immediately, a return to  democracy, and respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, such  as press freedoms. The path forward for Thailand must include early  elections that reflect the will of the people._

_While we value our long friendship with the Thai people, this act  will have negative implications for the U.S.–Thai relationship,  especially for our relationship with the Thai military. We are reviewing our military and other assistance and engagements, consistent with U.S. law._*12.30am:* Another announcement by the army has put the executive powers with the military and practically made army chief *General Prayuth Chan-ocha the current de factor prime minister*.

              Panu Wongcha-um          @*panuw*  Follow 

       adminiatrative power (executive branch) now rest with the army chief

              Amy Sawitta Lefevre          @*MimiSawitta*  Follow 

       Latest army announcement makes General Prayuth PM with all powers that come with the job. #*ThailandCoup*

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Britain "concerned" by Thailand coup - Channel NewsAsia
*
*Britain "concerned" by Thailand coup*

*           Britain expressed concern Thursday over the coup in Thailand  and urged all sides to work together, but stopped short of condemning  the seizure of power by the military.*
PHOTOS 
Thai anti-government protesters celebrate at their camp  outside Government House after Thailand's army chief announced that the  armed forces were seizing power, in Bangkok on May 22, 2014.  (AFP/Christophe ARCHAMBAULT)       

                                 LONDON: Britain expressed concern Thursday over the  coup in Thailand and urged all sides to work together, but stopped short  of condemning the seizure of power by the military.

The Foreign  Office also urged tourists to follow travel advice after army chief  General Prayut Chan-O-Cha announced the putsch on live TV, following  months of political unrest.

"We are concerned at the announcement  of a military coup in Thailand and are following developments closely,"  the Foreign Office said in a statement to AFP.

"We urge all sides  to put aside their differences, and adhere to the values of democracy  and the rule of law. This is clearly in the interests of the people of  Thailand."

The Foreign Office added that the "ongoing political  instability and the continued violence undermine Thailand's democratic  framework."

French President Francois Hollande earlier condemned the coup but international reaction has otherwise been muted so far.


          - AFP/nd

----------


## harrybarracuda

It's Number 19 since 1932.

I really don't see what the fuss is all about, apart from the curfew.

Based on averages, expect another elected government in a couple of years, another dummy spit in three and another coup in four or five.

Nothing really to worry about for farang expect the ones who are dumb enough to expect stability.

----------


## can123

> I really don't see what the fuss is all about, apart from the curfew.
> 
> Based on averages, expect another elected government in a couple of years, another dummy spit in three and another coup in four or five.
> 
> Nothing really to worry about for farang expect the ones who are dumb enough to expect stability.


If you repeat that enough times you run the risk of really believing it. This coup is quite unlike any other but I'm not prepared to give you a history lesson so as to explain why this is so. This is a very dangerous situation and much will depend on how Yingluck Shinawatr is treated tomorrow.

----------


## StrontiumDog

^ Indeed, I'm feeling really quite concerned at this moment...I really don't like what is happening.

----------


## pickel

I heard Chalerm's sons were arrested as well.

----------


## Thormaturge

> If you repeat that enough times you run the risk of really believing it. This coup is quite unlike any other but I'm not prepared to give you a history lesson so as to explain why this is so. This is a very dangerous situation and much will depend on how Yingluck Shinawatr is treated tomorrow.


The effect on this country's finances is likely to be harsher than in the past. I just wonder how much of Thailand's foreign currency reserves will be needed to slow down the Baht's devaluation.  Money will be draining out of Thailand tonight.

----------


## Exit Strategy

Firstly, I agree with you. But




> "We are concerned at the announcement of a military coup in Thailand and are following developments closely," the Foreign Office said


The FO has not cared about British interests (bureaucrats much denying whichever party in power) for about 100 years. Let's hear it from 10 or MOD. IMHO. 

However,

*How The Thai Coup Played Out on Twitter 
*
TIME Noah Rayman @noahrayman  12:40 PM ET

"Media outlets have been told to stop reporting and television channels have reportedly been taken off the air, replaced by a single government stream with official content."

----------


## Exit Strategy

> This is a very dangerous situation


Some people here, in their nice home theatre dolby 3d, may not realize that.

----------


## Thormaturge

^^
The Foreign and Commonwealth Office are the UK's business arm overseas, and it is they who will decide the level of co-operation between the two countries.  Now let's watch to see who recognises the new government.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> Don't recall you being so solicitous when Thaksin was setting about killing 2000 men, women and children during his war against drug dealers which conspicuously managed to avoid targeting the main dealers including his senior police officers.
> 
> Johnny come lately chap, are you?
> 
> 
> ???
> 
> ...




Well actually it does as you seem to try and portrey the yellow shirt crew as being a bunch of murders but never balance the facts. Shows your mind set, you are only about ideology, seems you could really care less how horrible a leader may be as long as he fits into your scope of democracy. All in all no matter what party is in power in Thailand nothing will change for the people of Thailand.

----------


## RPETER65

> Supposedly linked to reds?????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> ...




Considering the majority came from Thaksins building and the other from major red leaders, is there a doubt in your nmind.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> All in all no matter what party is in power in Thailand nothing will change for the people of Thailand.


I think you are wrong there. Things are going to change.

----------


## RPETER65

> Latest declaration is only Army TV to be aired.
> 
> Anyone still in any doubt about any of this?



What is there to be in doubt about. The army has pulled off a political coup, TV stations have been shut down to stop speeches leading to violence, leaders who would be suspect of promoting violence have been taken into custody, as I say what is there to have doubt about?

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by mustafa goze
> 
> 
> If its unconfirmed why would we want to hear more, Sawer?
> 
> 
> No offense, but to explain myself.  I live close to one of the flash points, and my main concern is making sure my family is safe.  Now, me and Tom are as far apart as can be, but, and this is a big but, despie Toms rhetoric, I think he lives in Thailand and is as concerned for his loved ones as I am for mine.  
> 
> When the shit hits the fan I would rather look at Toms posts, and see what he says than some armchiar dosser who lives in Detroit or elsewhere..




I don't see how reading hear say will help you, and I also have a home in Thailand. After having been through the last coup, and the resulted mob violence in Bangkok I personally believe you are being and others are being a bit over dramatic about all of this

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> Stand up Thai People this is your country. Don't be scared
> 
> 
> They're not [scared]
> They're mostly indifferent.
> They understand that it's just another day in paradise.
> ...




Exactly

----------


## Merrimack

The moment they dispersed red protesters.

----------


## Merrimack

Here's a Live redshirt channel I just found. Seems to be in English, at least right now.

----------


## Yasojack

Peter

I doubt everything about Thai politics.

Do you know what to believe or not to believe.?

Thaksin has been blamed for Thailands downfall, is that true.?

Thaksin is and was corrupt, but hey look at the rest of the establishment.

----------


## Yasojack

Starting to think a lot of members here not really live in reality or have little contact with grass root Thais.

Many Thais are angry whats happening in Thailand to there country.

And if its continues it will result in conflict, something mentioned to me a few weeks ago was the red shirts have a lot in common with the muslims in the south, imagine if these people joined forces, i'd say get the fek out of Thailand.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Here's a Live redshirt channel I just found. Seems to be in English, at least right now.


Good link. Hope they stay live. (Microsoft Cloud ads... as opposed to google shutting down red media, Hey Google where are you going?)

----------


## Exit Strategy

"Yingluck has been ordered to surrender by 10am." I hope she is in Chiang Mai now.

----------


## Yasojack

Whats the new PM going to say, something along the lines of get out the country or be locked up :Smile: 


Later, the military summoned ousted Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and 22 associates including powerful relatives and ministers in her government, to a meeting at an army facility at 10 a.m. (0300 GMT) on Friday.




> "Yingluck has been ordered to surrender by 10am." I hope she is in Chiang Mai now.

----------


## Dandyhole

Niwathamrong , Yingluck, and Sonchai in the 23 summoned to Prayuth.

Hope that they have asked Kerry if they should go?

----------


## Pragmatic

What the fcuk have they shut all schools for? Are they scared of children power?

----------


## Yasojack

Don't know if its true Niwathamrong supposedly went to US embassy to ask for protection and was denied.

----------


## Dandyhole

Niwathanrong location still unknown but his associate says remaining government guys in safe places.

I hope they are spread around the embassies , with those 700 American marines that are in Thailand protecting them.

Looks bad for the yanks , passive condonance to a coup on their watch.

Widespread international condemnation and criticism of Military Coup d'état

----------


## Merrimack

*Academics Defy Military Orders, Protest Coup*
Academics Defy Military Orders, Protest Coup


22May 2014

                                                                BANGKOK  A group of  university lecturers has already staged a rally at Thammasat University  to protest todays military coup détat and declaration of martial law.


Army chief Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha announced on  live television at 4.30 p.m. that the military had seized power from the  caretaker government and formed the National Peace and Order  Maintaining Council (NPOCM) as the new administration. 
  In a follow-up announcement, the NPOCM re-affirmed that the country was still under nationwide martial law.

  Thirty minutes later, political science and law academics gathered  on Thammasat Universitys Tha Prachan campus to stage a demonstration  titled, "Sick and tired: run from martial law to search for democracy."

  Among the protesters were prominent academics Puangthong Pawakapan,  Somsak Jiamteerasakul, Prajak Kongkirati, and Viengrat Netipho.

  "Bring back our voice!" one placard read. Others said, "Go home,  brave soldiers. The people are going to vote," and "Soldiers are the  fence of a house, don't fool us, you are not the house owners."

  Dozens of other activists joined the professors in Laan Bho, the  iconic courtyard inside the university where Thammasat students staged  their rally against the military government in 1973.

  Some activists marched to the nearby statue of Pridi Banomyong, the  founder of Thammasat University who co-led the 1932 revolution that  established Thailand as a constitutional democracy. The activists  blindfolded the statue of Pridi in a symbolic protest.

  Political science professor Puangthong told reporters she is deeply disappointed by the military's decision to launch a coup.

  "The coups in the past never end with democracy or peace," Ms.  Puangthong said, citing examples of the 1991 and 2006 coups that led to  further unrest.
  "Gen. Prayuth should see that all generals who launch coups never see a beautiful fate," Ms. Puangthong said.

  Ms. Puangthong also urged the military to return the power to the  people and organise an election as soon as possible. She added that she  and her group will continue to express their opinions about the coup  despite the military's attempts to censor dissent. 

  On Tuesday, the military forbade academics from giving any comments  to media that might "incite unrest."  Today, the military issued a ban  on any public gatherings of more than five people. 

  "The only thing the military has are weapons, but their weapons will  never change the belief, faith, and opinions of the people," Ms.  Puangthong said. "Their power will never be permanent. They can only  scare off people temporarily."

  Political history lecturer Mr. Prajak, who also attended the rally,  told reporters that "coups never bring solution to problems like  corruption, inequality, or conflict in the country.

  "In 2006, we already saw that the [military] government could not do anything to solve the problems," Mr. Prajak said.

  He warned that today's coup, like the 2006 putsch, would only deepen division in the society. 

  "They have destroyed all attempts to solve the problem in peaceful manner," Mr. Prajak said. 

  Today's military takeover marks the 12th coup état in Thailand since it became a constitutional monarchy in 1932.

----------


## Dandyhole

> What the fcuk have they shut all schools for? Are they scared of children power?


Sure are, don't want the kids educating into the realities of Thailand.

And certainly won't want them voting either

----------


## Merrimack

Chiang Mai Academics Declare They Are Anti-Army, Anti-Coup, Anti-Martial Law
                                                                (Chiang Mai City News)
21 May 2014


CHIANG MAI  A group  of scholars gathered to write messages protesting against the army, a  possible coup, and martial law in Chiang Mai on Tuesday night, in full  view of many spectators and in defiance of the nationwide ban against  gatherings of more than five people.

At 6 p.m. on 20 May, scholars and students from various institutes in Chiang Mai gathered at Thapae Gate to write messages on signboards. 
  Read the rest of the story here: Protests Already: Scholars Declare They Are Anti-Army, Anti-Coup, Anti-Martial Law

----------


## pseudolus

> Looks bad for the yanks , passive condonance to a coup on their watch.


I dearly hope that the americans stay the hell out of this. If they did anything such as givea home to the ousted PM to set up a "government in exile" they are basically inciting worse problems than the military are. 

If the army truly want to rid Thailand of Toxins sinister elements, first port of  call should be to close the US embassies and expel all of their government representatives....and CNN and BBC.... 

Glad to read the Navy has taken over from the cops here - this is a 100% positive as far as I am concerned. 

Irritated at lack of TV, and I finished my last book as well! 

The only scary thing about this is that Kerry has piped up saying exactly what I predicted he would be saying about these events, as predicted, a month ago. 

As this all plays out, just remember, Reds - cannon fodder for the globalists. Yellows - cannon fodder for the Thai elite. I just wish that the people will stop volunteering their lives for others profits, but alas, this will never happen.

----------


## Merrimack

A video clip here.

Thai Army Declares Coup: Military Seizes Control of Country | Video - ABC News

----------


## Merrimack



----------


## Merrimack



----------


## koman

It was a bit weird last night.  I live quite close to a major highway and last night the traffic noise just vanished.  It was deathly quiet overnight.    Even the local trucks taking veggies and stuff to the markets did not appear as they usually do from about 4am on..... :Confused: 

I do hope the army will give us a bit more variety in the music they are broadcasting.....it's getting more tedious than Thaivisa...... :Smile:

----------


## Merrimack

I noticed the pub across from me didn't close but it's off the main road. This morning a car came up with windows rolled down with college boys who seemed to be coming in from a night out. This is up in Rangsit.

----------


## Merrimack

I saw a lot of smoke out toward Navanakorn or it could have been Wang noi. Anyone know what that was? I think it's gone now. May have just been someone burning their fields as they often do.

----------


## Merrimack



----------


## jarvispe

Not in favour of a coup but army need to bang all these groups heads together to get the political problem sorted  nobody was willing to lose face and back down . With no government with any powers in charge no budget for next year could be prepared and if that is the case would cause serious problems for next year

----------


## Dandyhole

Interesting observation by Passau magazine in Germany in that Prayuths martial law speech was to the backdrop of a framed speech by King Rama V, entitled " The honour of a soldier", instead of the usual portraits.

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> Looks bad for the yanks , passive condonance to a coup on their watch.
> 
> 
> I dearly hope that the americans stay the hell out of this. If they did anything such as givea home to the ousted PM to set up a "government in exile" they are basically inciting worse problems than the military are. 
> 
> If the army truly want to rid Thailand of Toxins sinister elements, first port of  call should be to close the US embassies and expel all of their government representatives....and CNN and BBC....


Agree with you. They should instead invite the Chinese to run the country. Having lived between HK and China for the past 20 years I've no problem with that.The Chines army is quite efficient when it comes to deal with trouble makers and they are business friendly. Capitalism with Chinese characteristics, that's definitively what Thailand needs.

Just a problem  (for you, not for me), they may reinstate Thaksin as chief executive of the Thailand Special Administrative Region.

----------


## Merrimack

History says the military will empower the yellows. That's a fact.

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by pseudolus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> ...


They should ban all Chinese from government positions. That would bring positive change.

----------


## Merrimack

Oldie but goodie specifically for Thai Coup.

----------


## Merrimack

Yesterday BKKPost Opinion. It's kind of funny that there are opinion pages.


*Coup offers no solution | Bangkok Post: opinion*

Army chief Prayuth  Chan-ocha justified his decision to stage yesterdays coup as necessary  to prevent further loss of life and stop the political conflict from  escalating.      The rationale is short-sighted. Gen Prayuth may have good intentions  at heart but seizing administrative power by force will only cause the  situation to deteriorate further.

 The army chief said a military takeover was necessary to return the  situation to normal. He was speaking after the seven parties meeting to  find a way out of the political crisis failed to find a solution after a  second day of talks.

 He said the coup will pave the way for people to come together and love one another once again, like in the past.

 Army chief Prayuth Chan-ocha leaves the Army Club, where the meeting  was held on Thursday, before he announced a coup. (Photo by Chanat  Katanyu)

  The army chief should know better. Gen Prayuth was part of the last  coup-making effort led by Gen Sonthi Boonyaratglin that seized power  from former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 2006.

 Over the past eight years, he must have witnessed how an anti-coup  movement was born  the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship  (UDD) as we know it today.

 Gen Prayuth must have seen how the coup-installed government led by  Privy Councillor Gen Surayud Chulanont failed to restore unity or  establish a sense of fairness.

 He must have seen how the much coveted goal of national  reconciliation has grown more and more elusive since the 2006 coup that  was aimed at restoring peace and national harmony, the same goals as the  coup he is shepherding now.

 He must have known that we have arrived at the current conflict  between the caretaker government and the People's Democratic Reform  Committee (PDRC) in large part because of that 2006 coup.

 There is no question the political conflicts have become entrenched,  involving a complex web of conflicting values and political aspirations.  They have also polarised virtually every citizen and interest group in  the country.

 As must be evident to Gen Prayuth, who assumed the role of refereeing  the peace talks for two days, such deep-seated strife cannot be  resolved quickly.
 Adding another putsch to our lengthy history of coups will only  deepen the entanglement, making it even harder to solve and inflaming  anger among people on opposite poles.

 In his first address, Gen Prayuth also said the coup was intended to  allow reform of the country's political, economic and social structure  to ensure fairness for everyone.

 This is easier said than done. It's not that people are against  reform. In fact they want it. But reform has also been identified as  part of the agenda of the anti-government PDRC group. How could Gen  Prayuth go about implementing it without being seen as biased?

 In fact, if everyone had agreed to the reform agenda or procedure we  would not be facing such deep political divisions and such deadlock.

 The coup will prompt members of the international community to impose  sanctions. The country's economy will suffer, turning into further  hardship for ordinary citizens.

 There is no doubt Gen Prayuth saw a clear and present danger when he  decided to use force to take state power. He even said seizing power  would prevent bloodshed and preserve national security.

 The sad thing is it's the very act of a military takeover that is  likely to stir up stiff resistance, provoke acts of violence and  possibly cause more loss of life. This coup is not the solution.

----------


## BaitongBoy

> BANGKOK  A group of  university lecturers has already staged a rally at Thammasat University  to protest todays military coup détat and declaration of martial law.





> CHIANG MAI  A group  of scholars gathered to write messages protesting against the army, a  possible coup, and martial law in Chiang Mai on Tuesday night, in full  view of many spectators and in defiance of the nationwide ban against  gatherings of more than five people.


Good for them...And I wish them good luck...They have a lot of collective balls and bits...

Seems like the educated/intelligent people in Thailand can see what's going on here...Unlike a few of the moronic posters on this site...

----------


## Merrimack

Article here from the economist...

Outside Viewing

----------


## BaitongBoy

> He said the coup will pave the way for people to come together and love one another once again, like in the past.


That is very sweet...Flower power...The sixties were certainly a time to remember...And if you do remember them, apparently you weren't there...Heh...

 "Come on, people now
Smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try to love one another right now"

-The Youngbloods

----------


## Humbert

> Originally Posted by pseudolus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> ...


Right bring in the Chinese. Hooray repression and government censorship! Who needs free speech anyway? What me worry?

----------


## Merrimack

I wonder if anyone has seen the tanks roll out yet? I remember seeing them along the highways and on the elevated tollway in the past coup.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> He said the coup will pave the way for people to come together and love one another once again, like in the past.
> 
> 
> That is very sweet...Flower power...The sixties were certainly a time to remember...And if you do remember them, apparently you weren't there...Heh...
> 
> "Come on, people now
> Smile on your brother
> ...


 
Included: being so completely full of shit.

These restrictions of movement and curfew shit doesn't apply upcountry or downcountry......BKK metro region only.

Talking to extended family and friends in Nonthaburi, BKK, and Samut Sakhon [all affected areas] this morning - rather frustrated because of their restricted movements! Staying home. Some schools closed for a few days....

All this institutional restrictions will probably be lifted before long - a week or more.

----------


## Rural Surin

Has anyone heard about restricted airport operations? 
Both international and domestic.....?

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Chiang Mai Academics Declare They Are Anti-Army, Anti-Coup, Anti-Martial Law


Yingluck is still the legal leader of the country in Chiang Mai.

----------


## BaitongBoy

It has been a long time since such a gaggle of people have been "lurking under" a thread...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 57 (20 members and 37 guests)  
BaitongBoy, memo, Rural Surin, Pragmatic, JayZee, barrylad66, nidhogg, PAG, Exit Strategy, Mozzbie47, johpam, longway, Tom Sawyer, eloigorri, Dandyhole, Perota, Bobcock, jarvispe 

And this a small number compared to earlier...Nice to see...Funny what a few soldiers can do, eh?...

----------


## JayZee

Thaksin is now the (useful - for some) bogeyman for the ages, but is no longer the real issue.  The Economist article is nearer the mark.  As has been stated, this was well organised and the Operational Order was probably written sometime ago - this has to do with the succession, and I can only surmise that the reign of Rama IX is close to an end, if not already.  The political impasse has been a useful smokescreen ...

----------


## Norton

Aside from school closure today business as usual in Roi Et.

----------


## kmart

> Has anyone heard about restricted airport operations? 
> Both international and domestic.....?



On the newsfeed this morning, it said that people in transit to airports are exempt from curfew restrictions, but don't know anything about airport operations themselves.

----------


## Norton

> Thaksin is now the (useful - for some) bogeyman for the ages, but is no longer the real issue.


Never was real issue. Just a convenient excuse.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Has anyone heard about restricted airport operations? 
> Both international and domestic


Generally travel insurance does not cover anything happening under military rule. Tourism will go down. It's Lose-Lose situation.

----------


## Norton

> Has anyone heard about restricted airport operations?


Friend of mine works in AOT says no operations change.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Aside from school closure today business as usual in Roi Et.


Same here in the village. Normal 'Rocket Festival' parade just about to start.

----------


## Merrimack

"Army took control over Thai Laos friendship bridge in Nongkhai preventing any Thais from leaving the country."
https://twitter.com/MatichonOnline

----------


## Exit Strategy

Isn't that halfway Lao territory? Yeah friendship...

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pseudolus
> ...


In Hong Kong I own my home, I own my company. I 100% trust the legal system. When you see what people do here with their "democracy" and the BS you can read in the press, free speech is very much over rated in my humble opinion.

Edited : And immigration is straight forward. If you have a good reason to stay, you get a visa and after 7 years you get permanent residency.

----------


## mingmong

Schools closed in KoKha, Lampang this morning, was reminded at Local Beer shop last night, ''go Home before 10pm''

----------


## aging one

SEA Traveller just sent me this. Very interesting.

EXCLUSIVE: Royal Thai Navy seize control of Pattaya Police Station | Pattaya One – Pattaya News, Thailand News, World News, updated 24 hours a day

The military has taken over the police force in Pattaya.

----------


## Merrimack

*Coup leader Prayuth 'is new PM'*
23 May 2014
Bangkok Post article


Military junta chief Prayuth Chan-ocha has  declared himself acting prime minister until the new coup regime  announced Thursday can find someone to serve in the post full time,  authorities announced Thursday night.

 Announcement No.10 of the National Peace and Order Maintaining  Council (NPOMC) says Gen Prayuth, who is also army commander, will act  as prime minister for administrative purposes.

 "As some laws stipulate that 'the prime minister' authorises actions  under the law, the NPOMC leader or his assigned individuals will uphold  that authority for the time being," the announcement said.

 In the first 16 hours of junta rule, military authorities have issued  two orders and 19 announcements. Each is read several times over radio  and TV stations, which otherwise are blacked out, under total military  control, and playing only traditional music used for junta takeovers.

 Other communications including print media, the internet and both  regular and mobile phones were not been affected as of Friday morning  Thailand time.
 In other announcements, the permanent secretary of each ministry has  been appointed to take the authority of ministers until further  announcement or, presumably, the formal formation of a cabinet.

 Provincial govenors across the country were ordered to report to  military bases in their region - Bangkok, Nakhon Ratchasima, Phitsanulok  and Nakhon Si Thammarat. Heads of ministries and state enterprises were  ordered to report to the Army Club on Vibhavadi Rangsit Road by Friday  morning.

 Censorship announcement No. 14 repeated a martial law attempt to muzzle the mainstream media.

 It ordered all media including print and internet not to interview  former government officials, academics, judges or other members of  independent organisations "in a way that may create conflict or  confusion among the public"

 The junta repeated the martial law threat to shut down offending  media at their discretion and also "face legal action". That is to  differentiate it from shutting down print media, which is forbidden by  the Thai press law and other statutes.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> In Hong Kong I own my home, I own my company. I 100% trust the legal system.


Totally agree. How many times have I wished Thailand could be more like HK or Sing. But love or hate, in the end it is love.

----------


## pseudolus

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> In Hong Kong I own my home, I own my company. I 100% trust the legal system.
> 
> 
> Totally agree. How many times have I wished Thailand could be more like HK or Sing. But love or hate, in the end it is love.


Agree - however, do we want prices like HK and Singapore? I'm quite happy to take HK and Sing revenue, and spend it in Thailand  :mid:

----------


## Exit Strategy

> The military has taken over the police force in Pattaya


Not going to end well... bigger interests in play here... and Chonburi is red...

----------


## Merrimack

"Shinawatras summoned by coup-makers. They are required to show up at 10 am"
https://twitter.com/tulsathit


"Total of 23 Shinawatra family, associates and Pheua Thai core members summoned to appear at Royal Army Club"
https://twitter.com/Vpedrosa

----------


## Perota

> SEA Traveller just sent me this. Very interesting.
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Royal Thai Navy seize control of Pattaya Police Station | Pattaya One  Pattaya News, Thailand News, World News, updated 24 hours a day
> 
> The military has taken over the police force in Pattaya.


I wasn't here in 2006 but as far as I remember things didn't get that far, did they ?

----------


## Merrimack

Some front pages...


https://twitter.com/tulsathit

----------


## aging one

> I wasn't here in 2006 but as far as I remember things didn't get that far, did they ?


This is by far the most organized and planned coup I have been through. TV and radio are still out. Nothing like this before.

----------


## Thormaturge

The coup now places the Anti Money Laundering Office under military control.

My guess is that without civilian control Thailand's banking system will wind up on the FATF blacklist.

FATF-GAFI.ORG - Financial Action Task Force (FATF)

 All that hard work keeping us off it gone to waste.

----------


## Thormaturge

> "Shinawatras summoned by coup-makers. They are required to show up at 10 am"
> https://twitter.com/tulsathit
> 
> 
> "Total of 23 Shinawatra family, associates and Pheua Thai core members summoned to appear at Royal Army Club"
> https://twitter.com/Vpedrosa



BYOB  ?

----------


## Merrimack

I heard there is going to be an anti-coup demonstration at Thammasat University downtown campus today. They had a small one in the evening yesterday as was posted earlier. Still, I wouldn't expect much.

----------


## taxexile

> The coup now places the Anti Money Laundering Office under military control.


probably just want to check the bank statements of the usual suspects.





> "Total of 23 Shinawatra family, associates and Pheua Thai core members summoned to appear at Royal Army Club"


going for a helicopter ride perhaps?

----------


## Merrimack

*Coup makers prohibit media from criticizing coup, summon Yingluck, ISPs to report themselves* 
Coup makers prohibit media from criticizing coup, summon Yingluck, ISPs to report themselves | Prachatai English


                                                              Fri, 23/05/2014 - 08:13 | by *prachatai* 
 The National Peace and Order Maintenance Council (NPOMC), a special  security body led by the coup maker Army Chief Prayuth Chan-ocha, on  Friday early morning announced several orders which aim at limiting  freedom of expression and the freedom to information of the Thai  citizen.

 These measures were added after all kinds of TV channels and radios  have been forced to stop broadcasting their programs and only relay  signals from the armys TV and radio stations. The measure this time  applies to all kind of media, including online media. 

 The order prohibits all kind of media, including online media, from spreading these kinds of information:
 false information, information deemed a threat to national  security, defamation, criticism the role of the NPOMC, secret of state  authority, information which may lead to confusion, and conflict and  unrest, information about an assembly which aims to oppose the  authority, information which threatens individual. 


Activists protest against the impositiion of the Martial Law to limit freedom of expression in northern Chiang Mai provinc

The junta also order all Internet Service Providers to monitor,  check and block the dissemination of information which is distorted,  incite [violence] which may lead to unrest in the kingdom or affect the  national security or contravene to public morality. The ISPs must  report themselves to the National Broadcasting Telecommunication  Commission (NBTC) on Thursday 10.30 am 

 It has earlier asked for cooperation from the online social media  operators not to disseminate provocative, information inciting  unrest, and anti-junta messages. Otherwise the NPOMC will cease all  operations and prosecute those who violate the order.  

 It also summoned Former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, and  several other key Pheu Thai party members, including Somchai Wongsawat,  former prime minister  a brother-in-law of Yingluck, and Chalerm  Yoobamrung, former cabinet members to report themselves to the junta at  the Army Auditorium building Friday 10am. 

 Moreover all state authorities at the level of director-general and higher to report themselves to the junta.

----------


## Merrimack

*TBPS News programme director taken away by military after airing news on Youtube* 
TBPS News programme director taken away by military after airing news on Youtube | Prachatai English

                                                              Thu, 22/05/2014 

The military took away TPBS Deputy Director on news program  Wanchai Tantiwitthayapithak, after he insisted to air the news on  Youtube despite the coup makers order to cease all broadcast. 

 Source inside the TPBS station said that Wanchai was taken to the  first Army Area around 9.30pm to tune in understanding between the  media and army. 




The online broadcast was ended shortly before he was taken away by the army. 

 Earlier, the National Broadcasting and Telecommunications  Commission (NBTC) reportedly requested cooperation with the TPBS not to  broadcast any program on Television. The order was implemented by the  TPBS board member, but the news division insisted on airing the program  online.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> I wasn't here in 2006 but as far as I remember things didn't get that far, did they ?
> 
> 
> This is by far the most organized and planned coup I have been through. TV and radio are still out. Nothing like this before.


TV now has them reading out a list of names of people that (apparently) need to report to army- they are up to 100 plus names already.


Does seem to be a bit more serious this time....

----------


## Merrimack

https://twitter.com/bkkbase

----------


## PAG

Reflecting on the events of the last six months, the current situation has been so stage managed to reach it's planned conclusion, with the only 'unknown' being the timetable.   Had Yingluck's cabinet reacted differently and confronted Suthep's violent agitators, using the police, the military would have stepped in a long time ago.   Instead, the Government let the PDRC beat themselves over their heads and expose them for the coup seekers that they really were/are (all in the name of democratic reform of course).

The CC's ruling to remove Yingluck and the core of her cabinet facilitated a 'Caretaker' 'Caretaker' PM, and so lessened the adverse reaction had the coup occured under Yingluck's tenure.   The sudden imposing of Marital Law to get troops onto the streets and strategic position, the dummy 'reconcilliation' meetings held by Prayuth designed to ease the fait accompli that had obviously been planned for weeks/months.   The only voilence had came from the PDRC, and the Army (who could have so easily have stepped in to disperse them at any time) reiterated their right for 'peaceful' (sic) protest.

Prayuth, like Suthep, comes across as a bully and implementor, certainly not the mastermind(s) of this whole chain of events, with both seemingly lacking the cunning needed to formulate this plan on their own.   Bet's on Suthep having a Ministerial or Deputy PM position in the next appointed Government?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> I wasn't here in 2006 but as far as I remember things didn't get that far, did they ?
> 
> 
> This is by far the most organized and planned coup I have been through. TV and radio are still out. Nothing like this before.


Agree. I was here for the last one too. This is more authoritarian but without tanks on the streets. The real test as someone already said is how Thaksin family are treated

----------


## hillbilly

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> I wasn't here in 2006 but as far as I remember things didn't get that far, did they ?
> 
> 
> This is by far the most organized and planned coup I have been through. TV and radio are still out. Nothing like this before.


Have to agree. Even my wife has been asking me what is going on as apparently even the bamboo grapevine has been shut down.

----------


## Perota

Unrelated story (or not)
When prince Ranariddh was fighting with Hun Sen for the control of Cambodia, he had a big problem, the army was on the side of his opponent. His solution was to integrate the remaining of the Khmer Rouge army into the regular army. Unfortunately for him he was kicked out of the country before had time to achieve his plan. Incidentally, it also marked the end of the Khmer Rouge rebellion.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> I wasn't here in 2006 but as far as I remember things didn't get that far, did they ?
> 
> 
> This is by far the most organized and planned coup I have been through. TV and radio are still out. Nothing like this before.


Yes, wondering how long for the net?

----------


## xanax

whats this on the tv now with all the numbers read out? ah yes people in a little book is it? all seems a bit stalinist

----------


## taxexile

> TV now has them reading out a list of names of people that (apparently) need to report to army- they are up to 100 plus names already.


like a headmaster reading out the names of the bikeshed smokers he wants to report to his study after assembly.

they are mostly cops and PT apparatchicks i think.

its trousers down and six of the best time.

----------


## Sumbitch

As re: the curfew, my apt. is Thai owned and operated and they say the curfew will end on Sunday, May 25. Don't know about TV control.

----------


## Merrimack

> whats this on the tv now with all the numbers read out?


Is it the names of people they want to report?

----------


## FloridaBorn

> “tune in understanding”


This has a very ominous sound to it.. With no witnesses to any of these events like If the Thaksins do show up for their early call today it is all very suspect and ominous..

----------


## Merrimack

Clearing out the junk, bunkers etc at Ratchadadamnoen this morning.
https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Well the right wing establishment lashes out and rounds up all it's opponents to do what? Imprison them? I was going to say without a "fair" trial ..snigger

----------


## Merrimack

Some detail which may be related to the overall story in some ways.

The Color Of Money: Political Affiliations of Thai Business Families (2014)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByzW...Njg/edit?pli=1

----------


## Exit Strategy

> whats this on the tv now with all the numbers read out? ah yes people in a little book is it? all seems a bit stalinist


Thai PBS is there, with "National Peace and Order Maintaining Council" logo. 
Oh, 3, 5, 9 same thing. 

Syfy is ok.

----------


## Rocksteady

So is ITV choice.  

been showing a cooking prog and now it's 'best house wins a thousand pounds' ...  Codes similar to those broadcasted over BBC Service during WW2?

----------


## Merrimack

*Thailands Military Stages Coup, Thwarting Populist Movement*

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/23/wo...=tw-share&_r=1


BANGKOK   The Thai military seized control of the country on Thursday and  detained at least 25 leading politicians in a culmination of months of  maneuvering by the Bangkok establishment to sideline a populist movement  that has won every national election since 2001.

It  was the second time in a decade that the army had overthrown an elected  government, but there were signs that this takeover could be more  severe and include sharp curbs on Thailands freewheeling news media.

The  coup was seen as a victory for the elites in Thailand who have grown  disillusioned with popular democracy and have sought for years to  diminish the electoral power of Thaksin Shinawatra, a former prime  minister who commands support in the rural north. Unable to win  elections, the opposition has instead called for an appointed prime  minister, and pleaded with the military for months to step in.     

As  soldiers spread out throughout Bangkok on Thursday, the generals issued  a series of announcements, declaring most of the Constitution  terminated, banning gatherings of more than five people, imposing a  curfew and shutting schools.

The  coup was at least the 12th military takeover since Thailand abandoned  the absolute monarchy in 1932. But unlike many previous coups, which  involved infighting among generals, Thursdays military takeover had as a  subtext the political awakening among rural Thais who have loyally  supported Mr. Thaksin and benefited from patronage and policies such as  universal health care and microloans.
Critics of Mr. Thaksin, a billionaire tycoon who lives in self-imposed exile abroad, say he also took corruption to a new level.

With  one of Southeast Asias largest economies, Thailand has long been  attractive to foreign investors and tourists drawn by its reputation as  the land of smiles. But in recent months, it has made headlines for  the many attempts by antigovernment protesters to suspend democracy, a  jarring contrast with its open, cosmopolitan image.

The  military and Bangkok establishment now face the question of either  retaining the power gained from the coup or returning the country to  democracy  with the likelihood that Mr. Thaksin and his proven  political machine would again return to power in elections. The coup in  2006 unseated Mr. Thaksin, but his backers came back to win at the  polls, leading to his younger sister, Yingluck Shinawatra, becoming  prime minister in 2011.

Although  the leader of the antigovernment movement, Suthep Thaugsuban, was  detained Thursday, his supporters praised the coup. This is a victory  day for the people, Samdin Lertbutr, an antigovernment protest leader,  said in an interview. The military has done their job. And we have done  our job.

The  Thai military had initially pledged that Thursday would be a day of  seeking political compromise, two days after declaring martial law in  what it said was an attempt to force a political resolution. The army  hosted rival political leaders, including Mr. Suthep, for what was  billed as a second round of talks. But after several hours, soldiers  detained the participants, including cabinet ministers.
The  leader of the army, Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha, then announced the coup on  national television, saying he would reform the political structure,  the economy and the society.

Television  stations were ordered to replace their regular programming with  messages from the military and patriotic songs. The military also issued  a summons for 41 political figures tied to Mr. Thaksin, including Ms.  Yingluck, who was removed as prime minister by a court this month and  replaced by a deputy.

The  coup drew immediate rebukes from abroad. Secretary of State John Kerry  urged that civilian government be restored immediately.

There  is no justification for this military coup, he said in a statement.  While we value our long friendship with the Thai people, this act will  have negative implications for the U.S.-Thai relationship, especially  for our relationship with the Thai military.

A  spokesman at the Defense Department said the Pentagon was reviewing  military cooperation, including planned joint exercises set to start  Monday.

The  United Nations secretary general, Ban Ki-moon, also appealed for a  prompt return to constitutional, civilian, democratic rule. And like  Mr. Kerry, Britains foreign secretary and the office of the European  Unions foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, were among those calling  for new elections.

Six  months of debilitating protests in Thailand have centered on whether to  hold elections to end the political unrest. Protesters have occupied  government buildings, forcing even the prime minister to work elsewhere,  and courts and independent government agencies have issued a series of  rulings favorable to the protesters, including prohibiting the  government from dispersing demonstrators. Some of those rulings have  been derided by legal scholars.

The  antigovernment forces resent Mr. Thaksin not only for his concentration  of power but also for intimidation of the news media during his time in  office and what they call the mixing of his personal business with  affairs of state. But many of them have also become skeptical of the  notion of one person, one vote, which they say hands too much power to  uneducated provincial voters who support Mr. Thaksin.
The opposition proposes a return to democracy, but only after unspecified changes.

In  December, the governing party dissolved the House of Representatives in  an attempt to defuse the crisis and set an election for February. But  the opposition Democrat Party, which has not won a national election in  two decades, refused to take part. The Constitutional Court later ruled  that the election was unconstitutional, one of several rulings against  the government by a court perceived by government supporters to be  highly political.

The  military said Thursday that it would be fair to both sides in the  continuing political dispute. But it allowed antigovernment  demonstrators to remain in their protest site overnight, even as  soldiers in black masks dispersed crowds loyal to Mr. Thaksin and the  deposed government.

After deposing Mr. Thaksin in 2006, the generals put in place an administration that was widely seen as a failure.

The  lesson they learned the last time was that the medicine they prescribed  after the coup was not strong enough, said Thongchai Winichakul, a  former student activist in Thailand who is now a professor of Southeast  Asian history at the University of Wisconsin. Theres a high  possibility of very drastic measures and suppression this time.

At  the time, the Constitution was rewritten to strengthen the role of  judges, and the popular representation in the Senate was diluted.
The  initial trigger for the latest political crisis were the attempts by  Ms. Yinglucks party to institute an amnesty program that could have  allowed Mr. Thaksin to return from exile.

Although  Thailand has been burdened with tumultuous politics for decades, it has  also been, by many measures, an economic success story and a  well-functioning society, consistently outperforming almost all of its  neighbors. Close to 100 percent of the population has running water and  electricity. The unemployment rate is only around 1 percent. And  American and Japanese automotive factories together export more than a  million cars a year from the country.

Despite those strengths, the economy contracted in the first quarter amid the unrest.
In  Thailands turbulent political history, the king, Bhumibol Adulyadej,  has on at least one occasion helped resolve political disputes. But he  is 86 years old and ailing.

         There have been so many coups in Thailands history that scholars have not arrived at a definitive number.

Nicholas  Farrelly, a specialist on Southeast Asia at Australian National  University, posted a message this week on a website dedicated to studies  on Thailand and its neighboring countries. Mr. Farrelly tallied 11  successful coups and nine unsuccessful ones. But he wrote that he  also found obscure references to aborted military interventions.

Please share your knowledge to help us count Thailands military coups once-and-for-all, he wrote.

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## Exit Strategy

> Codes similar to those broadcasted over BBC Service during WW2


Would need to nick that Enigma machine from Imperial War Museum to verify that... but seems possible...

----------


## Topper

Channel News Asia - Suthep and his gang were released by the army.

I guess we now know who the next PM will be.

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## aging one

Pretty good report and is very close to my feelings.

Why Thailand

*Why Thailand’s latest coup is different this time*

 	 					Leslie Shaffer | Writer for CNBC.com 			
 20 Mins AgoCNBC.com



























 COMMENTSStart the Discussion


Play Video


     						 			Thai coup 'is the ultimate showdown': Vickers
 							Thursday, 22 May 2014 |  8:32  PM ET 					
 				Steve Vickers, CEO at  Steve Vickers & Associates, explains why the current military coup  in Thailand will have deeper repercussions than previous army takeovers.

 											 			 			 									  Business in Thailand usually isn't tarnished by politics,  but the country's latest military coup comes in a drastically changed  political milieu, with the Teflon status already showing scratches.  
 					 			    										  "This is quite different from coups we've seen  earlier. This is a one-in-a-hundred-years type of political crisis,"  Ernest Bower, senior advisor at the Center for Strategic and  International Studies said.  
 					 			    										  After more than seven months of political protests  and two days of martial law, Thailand's army chief General Prayuth  Chan-ocha declared the military had seized power in a coup. Media  reports said the leaders of the pro-government Red Shirts had been  arrested. The country has now faced a total of 19 military coups, 12  successful, since it became a constitutional monarchy in 1932.

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## Merrimack



----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Bangkok this morning at 7.30 ish

Solid traffic - everything as usual - no military presence.

Lumpini park was a bit quiet for that time of the morning but all the regulars were there as they always are















The cleaners have done a great job of sorting the place out now the protesters have left. There's loads of turf been bought in to patch up all the lawns.

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## Merrimack

I hope the yellow horde paid for that.

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## Perota

> Pretty good report and is very close to my feelings.
> 
> Why Thailand
> 
> *Why Thailand’s latest coup is different this time*
> 
>  	 					Leslie Shaffer | Writer for CNBC.com 			
>  20 Mins AgoCNBC.com
> Play Video
> ...


What is a bit worrying about this interview is Mr Vickers is saying we can expect within a week or so some strong reaction from the Reds.

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## Topper

I'm expecting a strong reaction from the reds.  Their leaders are being detained by the army while Suthep is apparently free just doesn't seem right to me.

Does anyone think the Yingluck will turn herself in?

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## aging one

Suthep is not free he is being detained as well. The twitter rumor was just that. The photo of him being released was in reality the one of him being driven off to detention.

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## cdnski12

It would be more appropriate to say the Army has taken over control of Bangkok. It doesn't hold much sway anywhere else in Thailand. The Red Shirts power base is Issan and Northern Thailand. Not BKK & the south.

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## Thormaturge

> Does anyone think the Yingluck will turn herself in?


It's Hobson's choice.

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## The Ghost Of The Moog

Having read the Economist article, and a piece kindly sent to me by BB, given the added information about the succession, I feel that this intervention by the army is a necessary evil - if what is written about the over-arching issue is true.

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## aging one

> It would be more appropriate to say the Army has taken over control of Bangkok. It doesn't hold much sway anywhere else in Thailand. The Red Shirts power base is Issan and Northern Thailand. Not BKK & the south.


I dont think you have been following what is going on very carefully.

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## PerplexedJapaneseDog

> whats this on the tv now with all the numbers read out? ah yes people in a little book is it? all seems a bit stalinist


Heading off to the local lottery ticket selling lads.

----------


## Warrior

> Yesterday BKKPost Opinion. It's kind of funny that there are opinion pages.
> 
> 
> *Coup offers no solution | Bangkok Post: opinion*
> 
> Army chief Prayuth  Chan-ocha justified his decision to stage yesterdays coup as necessary  to prevent further loss of life and stop the political conflict from  escalating.      The rationale is short-sighted. Gen Prayuth may have good intentions  at heart but seizing administrative power by force will only cause the  situation to deteriorate further.
> 
>  The army chief said a military takeover was necessary to return the  situation to normal. He was speaking after the seven parties meeting to  find a way out of the political crisis failed to find a solution after a  second day of talks.
> 
> ...


This was published at 20 past midnight last night. I was pretty surprised by the uncensored criticism of it. And it is still available online (at BKKPost's app).

----------


## nigelandjan

So this military intervention will restore democracy and sweetness and light amongst all the fractious groups in Thailand who no matter what in the past will not accept the democratic decision ?? 

Dream on

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## Humbert

> It would be more appropriate to say the Army has taken over control of Bangkok. It doesn't hold much sway anywhere else in Thailand. The Red Shirts power base is Issan and Northern Thailand. Not BKK & the south.


I guess the army patrols at the Surin railroad station are for some other reason then.

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## beerlaodrinker

I was on the piss in udon Thani last night and at about 9 pickup trucks with loudspeakers were cruising around telling people to be off the street by 10 .oo, inconsiderate cnuts I was just getting started to

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## taxexile

> I feel that this intervention by the army is a necessary evil - if what is written about the over-arching issue is true.


indeed.

----------


## FloridaBorn

^What rumors? Pm me if necessary please. I spoke with my missus and she seems to think all has been the best then the last several years? Is something else not generally known? It does make a lot of sense though given all these meetings etc. probably to apprise, deter and to consolidate.

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## xanax

can a link be posted about this?

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## aging one

Hit the link on Perotas post 418 it is a repost of one I put up a couple of hours ago. Things like this have never been discussed in public before.

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## Merrimack

Prachatai has a big banner on its news site...



Prachatai English

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## Merrimack

During the Coups they usually have tanks on the streets at some locations. Has anyone heard of them yet? Seems odd that they haven't done their usual thing.

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## FloridaBorn

^^^Thanks for that.

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## Seekingasylum

There will be no reaction from the "reds" this time around. Thaksin's crew are being wheeled in to get the facts of life read to them. I should imagine that there is so much dirt on those jokers, given the colossal amount of corruption of the past three years during their so-called government, the alternative to reining their necks in is years of hassle from the courts, at best. 

Quite extraordinary really just how long the illusion that the redshirt movement constituted a bona fide social force for change has persisted. I suppose when all the clueless foreign press corps and the chattering classes of western democracies swallowed that particular nonsense it was bound to gain traction. Still, when all those huddled masses in Isaan etc fail to stir their loins and the heralded uprisings don't materialize then even the dimmest commentator might concede their foolishness.

Thaksin 's last proxy government,and one sincerely hopes his final, had to be stopped and this coup was the only way. One simply can't rely upon democracy here to provide good government, and that's the reality. The criticism from the West is mere lip service to their sensibilities and business will continue uninterrupted, as indeed will the usual tenor of life both in the capital and elsewhere.

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## Merrimack

You don't get it gent. But you have a right to support whoever you like. Thaksin is the lesser of evils in Thailand at the moment. You just can't get that.

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## Bangyai

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> I wasn't here in 2006 but as far as I remember things didn't get that far, did they ?
> 
> 
> This is by far the most organized and planned coup I have been through. TV and radio are still out. Nothing like this before.


True. The worst I've seen in 30 years. Looks like this time they are playing for keeps.

I don't think this is over by a long chalk. If the UDD are driven underground there will be sporadic violence and death for a long time accompanied by the brutal repression the army are so good at. 

This in turn will damage business and the tourist industry and Thailands international image. Human rights agencies will be kept very busy .They will be unable to take the lid off censorship since the moment they do they will come under a barrage of criticism. A lot of face is going to be lost.

In short , they themselves will come under grinding pressure to solve the mess they themselves have helped create.

Things could get so bad it would not surprise me at all to see a counter coup sometime in the future.

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## nevets

As someone once said , it's nothing personal it's just good business.

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## Merrimack

Just a clip of where Yingluck went, Army Club. Yingluck isn't in the clip.

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## Troy

> Still, when all those huddled masses in Isaan etc fail to stir their loins and the heralded uprisings don't materialize then even the dimmest commentator might concede their foolishness.


I sincerely hope you are right.

No difference in the local Issan village, apart from a day off school, but that doesn't mean much.  In 2006, I brought them the news about the Coup and they believed me when the kids came back from school because it was closed.

However, there are villages not too far away that are far more red-blooded and have been safe-havens for all sorts, being on the verge of anarchy at the very best of times.

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## Merrimack

"                               Peace and Order Maintaining Council: Don’t believe rumors about shutting down internet"
https://twitter.com/CoconutsBangkok

----------


## StrontiumDog

I cant seem to access Twitter all of a sudden....maybe a temporary thing but it hasn't happened before. Times out.

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## Bettyboo

*The US has led widespread international criticism of a military takeover in Thailand as the South-East Asian nation spent its first night under curfew.*

US Secretary of State John Kerry said there was "no justification", and $10m in bilateral aid could be suspended.

France and Germany condemned the coup, with the UN expressing serious concern.
BBC News - Thailand&#039;s military criticised as coup takes hold

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## Necron99

> Yingluck has reported to the Army Club
> 
> http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874...and-coup-live/



where in your link does it say that?

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## cyrille

Was wondering that too.

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## Seekingasylum

Frankly, it appears to me all this chatter about insurrection is nothing more than wishful thinking and only serves to prop up the silly notion that Thaksin was indeed the rallying point for the poor, the under-privileged and unrepresented among Thai society.

Finally, his Machiavellian antics have been terminated, and hopefully for good.

----------


## taxexile

> You don't get it gent. But you have a right to support whoever you like. Thaksin is the lesser of evils in Thailand at the moment. You just can't get that.


its you who doesnt get it. blathering from the western viewpoint again.




> The moralist cosmology is static, so change is perceived as social decay. Unable to decipher the underlying economic and social changes, moralists blame structural problems on individual moral failure.  Deeply rooted in the culture of Theravada Buddhism, moralists explain high social status with the moral authority reflecting kamma acquired in prior lives. Hence, corruption by “bad people” at the top must be seen as a perversion of the ideal social-moral order. The solution is clear: “bad people” need to be replaced by “good people” whose virtue is assumed due to their membership in the ‘network monarchy’. “Vile” critics of the social order “have no place in decent society”; they cannot be “real Thais” and should leave the country “to live somewhere else”. Moralists aim for a political system led by “neutral people of virtue”. With reference to Plato’s “philosopher king”, this can be a monarchy administered by loyal technocrats.


thats how it works here, and i cant see it changing for a good while yet.


A democratic anti-corruption discourse for Thailand
BY MARC SAXER, GUEST CONTRIBUTOR – 17 MAY 2014

A democratic anti-corruption discourse for Thailand

----------


## xanax

Can't see the point of taking the opium like thai TV off air, would have thought that benefited the coup makers. Can understand the news being off but the without the rest of the crap people will actually have to talk to each other, and the internet is still on anyway.

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## aging one

From just half an hour ago, and now mention of Yinglack.

 Niwattumrong reports to NPOMC Former leaders begin reporting to junta      Published: 23 May 2014 at 11.11 | Viewed: 1,748 | Comments: 0     Online news:     Writer: Online Reporters  Niwattumrong Boonsongpaisan,... 

Please credit and share this  article with others using this  link:Former leaders begin reporting to junta | Bangkok Post: Most recent. View our policies  at Bangkok Post: Terms and conditions of use and Bangkok Post: Republishing policy. © Post Publishing PCL.  All rights reserved.

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## xanax

> Frankly, it appears to me all this chatter about insurrection is nothing more than wishful thinking and only serves to prop up the silly notion that Thaksin was indeed the rallying point for the poor, the under-privileged and unrepresented among Thai society.
> 
> Finally, his Machiavellian antics have been terminated, and hopefully for good.


Never the less his supporters have won one election after another and would have continued to do so. What could be more illegal or corrupt than a bunch of uniformed thugs taking over a country and suspending the constitution?

----------


## Thormaturge

> One simply can't rely upon democracy here to provide good government, and that's the reality. The criticism from the West is mere lip service to their sensibilities and business will continue uninterrupted, as indeed will the usual tenor of life both in the capital and elsewhere.



We need a good Democrat led government so they can run the country the way they do Bangkok.

Like the 2004 purchase of fire boats and trucks for which Pracha is supposed to be serving 12 years.

Dodgy allocation of BTS contracts by Sukhumband.

No corruption there.

We have seen Thailand's projected 4.7% GDP growth evaporate, along with hundreds of thousands of jobs, in the past six months as a result of this "uninterrupted business."

So long as this nonsense continues, and none of the existing outdated tax treaties, that are full of holes, are replaced my company will do nicely, thankyou, so I have no complaints.

----------


## taxexile

illegal and corrupt to you maybe, but perfectly justified by many thais according to their beliefs and traditions.

----------


## Necron99

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> 
> Frankly, it appears to me all this chatter about insurrection is nothing more than wishful thinking and only serves to prop up the silly notion that Thaksin was indeed the rallying point for the poor, the under-privileged and unrepresented among Thai society.
> 
> Finally, his Machiavellian antics have been terminated, and hopefully for good.
> 
> 
> Never the less his supporters have won one election after another and would have continued to do so. What could be more illegal or corrupt than a bunch of uniformed thugs taking over a country and suspending the constitution?



Hun Sen and Kim Jong Un win elections too....

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> 
> Frankly, it appears to me all this chatter about insurrection is nothing more than wishful thinking and only serves to prop up the silly notion that Thaksin was indeed the rallying point for the poor, the under-privileged and unrepresented among Thai society.
> 
> Finally, his Machiavellian antics have been terminated, and hopefully for good.
> 
> 
> Never the less his supporters have won one election after another and would have continued to do so. What could be more illegal or corrupt than a bunch of uniformed thugs taking over a country and suspending the constitution?


A uniformed thug becoming Head of State?

----------


## Merrimack

*Thai Coup Risks Clashes as Thaksin Camp Better Organized - Bloomberg*

When Thailands army last ousted a government linked to Thaksin Shinawatra in 2006, his rural-based supporters lacked the organization to mount a resistance. Theyre better prepared this time around. 
 The  Red Shirts, who coalesced in 2008 to fight Thaksins opponents, have  built networks in northern Thailand that mobilized supporters across the  nation and helped secure a majority for his allies in a 2011 vote.  Their leaders were arrested yesterday when six months of instability  came to a head with the televised announcement by army chief Prayuth  Chan-Ocha that he was suspending the constitution, in the 12th coup in  eight decades. 
 The opposition and resistance to the coup will likely be strong, Thitinan Pongsudhirak, director of the Institute of Security and International Studies at Bangkoks Chulalongkorn University, said by phone. This time the looming confrontation and clashes are going to be severe and violent. 

The coup exacerbates divisions between a rural majority that has  propelled Thaksin-backed parties to power in the past five elections  and their royalist opponents who have used the military and the courts  to oust the government. While Prayuth said the army aimed to restore  peace in a short time, the seizing of power threatens to further  undermine an economy that will probably have the slowest growth among  its major Southeast Asian peers this year. 
    Photographer: Rufus Cox/Getty Images    Thai army soldiers secure the grounds of the venue for peace talks between pro- and... Read More 

*Fueling Fire* 

 The last coup in 2006 was, I think,  regarded by some in the military as a bit of a mistake because it  widened political division and it only added fuel to the fire, Jon  Grevatt, an industry analyst for Asia-Pacific at IHS Janes in Bangkok  said in an interview with Bloomberg television. 
 This time the  anti-government protesters will be appeased and placated by the coup,  because it has pushed their move to put an unelected administration in  power. But the pro-government protesters will be very aggrieved by this  decision especially as the army has said that they will look to reform  politics in the country. 

 Two days after declaring martial law  and saying there was no coup, Prayuth announced alongside senior  military officials that he was seizing control to restore peace. He said  there would be a daily nationwide curfew from 10 p.m. until 5 a.m. and  banned political protests. 
*Baht Declines* 

Thailand's Troubled Democracy
The  baht gained 0.3 percent against the dollar at 11:00 a.m. in Bangkok,  after sliding 0.4 percent yesterday after news of the coup broke. 
 The  coup could provide short-term certainty to markets after months of  protests and upheaval that led to the removal on May 7 of then-caretaker  premier Yingluck Shinawatra -- Thaksins sister -- by the Constitutional Court, according to Alan Richardson, whose Samsung equity fund beat 96 percent of peers tracked by Bloomberg in the past five years. 
 Still,  the coup comes days after the state planning agency reported gross  domestic product shrank 0.6 percent in the three months through March  from a year earlier. 
 Its one thing for markets to shrug off a  military coup when theres fairly buoyant growth, but quite another to  be so insouciant when the economys contracting,said Nicholas Spiro, managing director of Spiro Sovereign Strategy in London.  Investors are underpricing what brought about the coup in the first  place: debilitating political dysfunctionality and its corrosive effects  on Thailands economy. 

*Thaksin in Exile* 

 The  intervention by the army to oust Thaksin in September 2006 and install  General Surayud Chulanont as interim prime minister saw the military  enmeshed in the political sphere for more than a year. It wasnt until  December 2007 that an election was held, where a Thaksin-allied party  won the most parliamentary seats. 
 Since the 2006 coup, courts  have disbanded two parties tied to Thaksin and disqualified three prime  ministers backed by his allies. Thaksin has lived overseas since fleeing  a jail sentence in 2008 on corruption charges stemming from a  military-appointed panel after the coup. 

 The military will want  to seek to avoid being caught up in governing for such a long period  again, according to Michael Connors, an associate professor at the  Malaysia campus of the University of Nottingham. 

 We can expect  this to be a highly repressive coup with a promise of return to  normality in a year perhaps, he said by e-mail. A coup like this has  never happened before. No Thai coup has occurred under conditions of  potential mass and armed resistance. And no coup has had to be so  cautious in the making, and with the possibility of a split military.  This is Thailands most dangerous coup. 
*Yellow Shirts* 

 Thailands  instability stretches back decades, with more than 20 prime ministers  since 1946. Until Thaksins term from 2001 to 2005, no prime minister  had ever served a full term. Turmoil has worsened since 2006 as the  nation has divided into two camps: Red and yellow. 
 The yellow  shirts comprise Bangkoks middle class, royalists and retired generals.  They have called for several versions of an appointed government in the  past few months and are aligned with the opposition Democrats, who have  not won a national vote since 1992 and boycotted a February poll. 
 Thailand is a constitutional monarchy and King Bhumibol Adulyadej, 86, has reigned since 1946. 

*Double Standards* 

 The red shirts  point to the coup and subsequent court rulings that dissolved parties  allied with Thaksin as proof that Thai society is unjust and filled with  double standards. They took to the streets in both 2009 and 2010,  calling for new elections. The protests in 2010 were put down by the  military, resulting in more than 90 deaths. 
 Prayuth said he  aimed to reform the political sphere, the economy and society, without  giving details. The anti-Thaksin movement now led by Suthep Thaugsuban  had pushed for the formation of an appointed council to replace  governments linked to the former premier. 

 Nobody welcomes the  coup, but I believe that the ruling government had many opportunities in  the last six months to avoid this, Kiat Sittheeamorn, a senior member  of the Democrat party, said by phone. They never moved back an inch to  avoid this. They had six months to address the demands of the  demonstrators. They did not do a thing about it. 

 Thailand had a  fully-elected Senate for nine years under its 1997 constitution. The  current charter, written in 2007 by a military-appointed assembly, calls  for just over half the members to be directly elected with the rest  appointed by a commission. 

 It remains to be seen how far the  military goes to take permanent control of government or turn it over to  a new, likely royalist, caretaker, analysts Christian Lewis and Shaun  D. Levine from Eurasia Group said in an e-mailed note. 
 It will  be several days before governance plans materialize, as street-level  security under martial law will remain the top concern. But we dont see  last nights coup as marking the end to a period of political  instability.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> 
>  One simply can't rely upon democracy here to provide good government, and that's the reality. The criticism from the West is mere lip service to their sensibilities and business will continue uninterrupted, as indeed will the usual tenor of life both in the capital and elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> We need a good Democrat led government so they can run the country the way they do Bangkok.
> 
> ...


Glad you agree. The sooner that nice chap Abhisit is back in business, the better.

----------


## Bettyboo

> illegal and corrupt to you maybe, but perfectly justified by many thais according to their beliefs and traditions.


This is just untrue, and you have to get it out of your head that somehow Thais are just like this... Actually, Tax, I'll agree with you to a degree; the beliefs and traditions are there, but they are conventional and force framed they are not inherent. Thais, the university age ones I've taught for 10 years or so, just aren't like this, they a nice young folk that want a corruption free nation with opportunity for everyone.

Thais do not like corruption, murder, cheating, lies, etc - they are, in fact, human being just like me and you... But, since the 1930s, a society has been framed and very carefully manipulated, not so different from the Muslim countries or North Korea, that forces a set of 'values' and 'beliefs' upon the nation - it is highly conventional and engineered, it is not somehow in their nature or genetics.

All societies change from feudal to a kind of democracy - welcome to the history of planet Earth. Thailand, due to the massive power of the PADites and the companies they control which although they are the richest in the nation do not adhere to any laws, checks or balances (and are not very visible at all)..., is attempting to keep a feudal grasp, this is exasperated by the situation at the top and the fact that nobody lives forever... - their system, which had made them so much money, and given them so much power, since the 1930s is coming to an end, and they are panicking. They have massive power; courts, army, 'moral authority', etc, but they are a minority group who abuse society, frame it to their benefit, in a feudal way. They are using all of that power in a desperate bid to keep all that power and money.

It is an age old power struggle where the ones that have everything want to keep it, and some of you folks, shouting the slogans of "but, Thaksin..." and "Thai people are like that..." would make Geobbels very happy indeed...

Edit to add: while there was a chance of gradual migration where all the Thai rich folk benefited (and the average Thai too, and the nation...), with this extreme move, the PADites risk a total loss (not today, but in a relatively short space of time) where Thailand is turned upside down. The PADites, as I've being saying all along, are only interested in an all or nothing game, and that is incredibly dangerous.

----------


## Thormaturge

> illegal and corrupt to you maybe, but perfectly justified by many thais according to their beliefs and traditions.


I agree with you on this entirely, and this is the point.  There is corruption on both sides and the fact that Thaksin's political party won the last election here displays that it frankly doesn't bother the majority.  Corruption, on various levels, exists right through the Thai business world.

Perhaps the Democrats should campaign on the platform of "Thaksin is more corrupt than any of us" and they might gain some credibility.

----------


## cyrille

> exasperated


exacerbated  :Wink: 

good post.  :Smile:

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> Yingluck has reported to the Army Club
> 
> http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874...and-coup-live/
> 
> 
> 
> where in your link does it say that?


Sorry missed this. They pulled it. I've lost a bit of respect for asiancorrespondent now. Yingluck's car just arrived at 12:00. but of course, that's what I saw on twitter. This time they are confirming her car arrived so far.

----------


## Warrior

The BBC just reported that K Yingluck HAS reported at the Army Club.

----------


## Bettyboo

If the army detain Y and the Shin family that will look very bad internally and internationally; just stroking the flames. Thus, you'd imagine it'll be a lecture then let them go?

Even though this entire situation has been planned between the PADite factions for a long while, you do get the feeling that it's linked to the big event. Of course, if there was just open dialog on this issue, most Thais would agree, and everything would move smoothly in a PADite manner... Insane...

----------


## cyrille

> The BBC just reported that K Yingluck HAS reported at the Army Club.


Yes, it's on asian correspondent now too.

----------


## Topper

> The BBC just reported that K Yingluck HAS reported at the Army.


If that's true, I lost a bet, damn it.

----------


## cyrille

> If the army detain Y and the Shin family that will look very bad internally and internationally; just stroking the flames.


Surely the army won't be worrying too much about public perceptions right now.

They _are_ the army after all.

_stoking_, btw.  :Wink:

----------


## Seekingasylum

But , my dear Betty, Pareto's law is observed everywhere else on the planet, to one degree or other. The minority will always control what the majority want. The trick is to ensure that the scope for consolation is available to all - Thaksin was just a con merchant, not a panacea, and was infinitely worse than the status quo you wish to replace.

Incidentally, the relationship between serf and lord is replicated throughout Thai society at every level and once established it is inherent that obligations within networks will be fulfilled. In the west we call it corruption, here it is simply a convention. 

Ultimately, it resolves to degree: if one network threatens to usurp all others then there can be no consensus and all is out of balance. Thaksin was just too damn greedy.

----------


## aging one

I think they reported former pm has arrived. I am seeing not Yinglack but this guy.  

Ousted prime minister Niwattumrong Boonsongpaisan was one of 38  prominent figures who showed up at a military facility in Bangkok in  response to a slew of summonses, according to an army official who did  not want to be named.
 But there was no sign of former premier Yingluck Shinawatra, who was  dismissed by the courts earlier this month and also summoned to attend.

----------


## Merrimack

Journalist protests. https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow

----------


## Warrior

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> illegal and corrupt to you maybe, but perfectly justified by many thais according to their beliefs and traditions.
> 
> 
> This is just untrue, and you have to get it out of your head that somehow Thais are just like this... Actually, Tax, I'll agree with you to a degree; the beliefs and traditions are there, but they are conventional and force framed they are not inherent. Thais, the university age ones I've taught for 10 years or so, just aren't like this, they a nice young folk that want a corruption free nation with opportunity for everyone.
> 
> Thais do not like corruption, murder, cheating, lies, etc - they are, in fact, human being just like me and you... But, since the 1930s, a society has been framed and very carefully manipulated, not so different from the Muslim countries or North Korea, that forces a set of 'values' and 'beliefs' upon the nation - it is highly conventional and engineered, it is not somehow in their nature or genetics.
> 
> ...


Very well said. The comparison w/ Goebels is a little harsh - but explains it very well. This stupid generalization where some think that "Thai are just like that" is sickening.

----------


## Warrior

> But , my dear Betty, Pareto's law is observed everywhere else on the planet, to one degree or other. The minority will always control what the majority want. The trick is to ensure that the scope for consolation is available to all - Thaksin was just a con merchant, not a panacea, and was infinitely worse than the status quo you wish to replace.
> 
> Incidentally, the relationship between serf and lord is replicated throughout Thai society at every level and once established it is inherent that obligations within networks will be fulfilled. In the west we call it corruption, here it is simply a convention. 
> 
> Ultimately, it resolves to degree: if one network threatens to usurp all others then there can be no consensus and all is out of balance. Thaksin was just too damn greedy.


Thaksin was no more greedy than any of the others. He was just way more successful. Hence the jealousy.

----------


## cyrille

> This stupid generalization where some think that "Thai are just like that" is sickening.


Just lazy stereotyping by the intellectually stunted. I wouldn't let it 'sicken you', and it hardly has the vigour of Goebbels.

Nothing to be concerned about really.

----------


## Merrimack

Some TD members are a lot like the pompous wealthy educated yellows. They just see the poor as lower folks so it's hard for them to escape their upbringing. Thais are different. The pic of the young reporter above shows a strong-willed Thai girl who won't take bs. Many younger folks have been expressing themselves in ways their parents can't understand with all the tech out there. The younger generation won't accept repression the way people in the past would. Those against this coup are a mix of different backgrounds. They aren't just simple farmers with a grudge. This won't be the same as past coups.

----------


## Bettyboo

> But , my dear Betty, Pareto's law is observed everywhere else on the planet, to one degree or other. The minority will always control what the majority want.


Yes, to one degree or another, but it has to be balanced. In North Korea it is not, so while the military can force the masses, who conventionally love the leader, for a certain amount of time, one day its gonna end badly for the geezer with the famous haircut, isn't it?




> Incidentally, the relationship between serf and lord is replicated throughout Thai society at every level and once established it is inherent that obligations within networks will be fulfilled. In the west we call it corruption, here it is simply a convention.


It's always conventional, thegent, even in our societies, changing laws so that banks get fines rather than the bankers going to prison, is conventional, it's also corrupt, but it's intentionally managed by a group of people to benefit themselves. Is it illegal and corrupt? I'd say yes, but the courts, in the west, are also paid for, so it is just 'conventional'... I'suspect you'll agree.

The issue is, Thailand is not balanced, the conventions go so far, you have to say they were well engineered, but they cannot maintain the strain. A couple of factors add massive pressure: 1) information, the information era, globalization, internet, phones, etc, mean that the spread of info is very fast and very wide reaching. Thus, discourse which the PADites try so hard to keep closed, is now open; 2) the serfs aren't tattooed anymore, in fact, many of them have degrees, travel around the world and get info on their iPhones, they even lunch at Paragon, much to the displeasure of their former slave drivers...

----------


## zygote1

The press releases from governments who can influence trade and finance is rather stern. I believe this coup will be treated differently unless the military provides a clear indication of its plans. I was reading a few of them (Australia, USA, Canada, UK) and they are a slap in the fact to the military. Thailand was trying to initiate a deal with the USA & Canada on their treatment of some Thai exports and it  would not be far fetched to see that put on hiatus for a bit. I was rather surprised by the tone of both the Australian and the USA statements as they usually are restrained  with a wait and see sentiment, but this time, they are blunt.

----------


## cyrille

> Thaksin was no more greedy than any of the others. He was just way more successful.


He's certainly better at the whole corrupt charade than most, but surely his insatiable, devouring greed is a big part of his effectiveness?

----------


## zygote1

> Some TD members are a lot like the pompous wealthy educated yellows. They just see the poor as lower folks so it's hard for them to escape their upbringing. Thais are different. The pic of the young reporter above shows a strong-willed Thai girl. Many have been expressing themselves in ways their parents can't understand with all the tech out there. The younger generation won't accept repression the way people in the past would. Those against this coup are a mix of different backgrounds. They aren't just simple farmers with a grudge. This won't be the same as past coups.


The military won't know how to respond to these people either. It will make for an interesting  long term result.

----------


## cyrille

> The military won't know how to respond to these people either.


Really?

----------


## pseudolus

I wonder if the rewritten constitution will make an alteration to ascendency? In looking for a reason for this coup now, as opposed to a few months ago, this seems likely.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> If the army detain Y and the Shin family that will look very bad internally and internationally; just stroking the flames.
> 
> 
> Surely the army won't be worrying too much about public perceptions right now.
> 
> They _are_ the army after all.
> 
> _stoking_, btw.


Well, they should.

Few things would help an underground Red movement to develop more than the army locking Y up. If they really wanted to cause a civil war, they could hang her on live tv...

Obviously the West will try very hard to do nothing at all about all this, but every illegal and extreme action by the army makes that position more difficult. It adds attention, drives international discourse, forces governments into words and actions when they'd rather just turn the other cheek...

----------


## Warrior

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> Some TD members are a lot like the pompous wealthy educated yellows. They just see the poor as lower folks so it's hard for them to escape their upbringing. Thais are different. The pic of the young reporter above shows a strong-willed Thai girl. Many have been expressing themselves in ways their parents can't understand with all the tech out there. The younger generation won't accept repression the way people in the past would. Those against this coup are a mix of different backgrounds. They aren't just simple farmers with a grudge. This won't be the same as past coups.
> 
> 
> The military won't know how to respond to these people either. It will make for an interesting  long term result.


The Army is still not far away from facing civil war. This is not about how the international community will react - this is about how the Reds (and the a lesser extend: the Yellows) will react to what they see, or believe to see the Army is doing. The next few days are alarmingly dangerous.

----------


## taxexile

> This is just untrue, and you have to get it out of your head that somehow Thais are just like this..


but they are, they dance to a different rhythm to you and i, and it's patronising to think otherwise.

thais love "corruption", it is considered natural, it is manna from heaven, they dont think it is wrong, it exists at every level of society, but most know their limits and just how far they can go before the applecart is upset.

lying, as a face saving measure is perfectly acceptable.

no one is claiming what has happened over the past six months is fair and just, but it follows perfectly what passes for thai logic.

but at the present time, the "elite" for want of a better word, are far more likely to move thailand forward to a better place than the "not so elite"

----------


## Thormaturge

I wonder what Thailand would have made of Steve Jobs if he had been Thai.

 I suspect he would be serving life in exile and we would still have had Microsoft, Dell and Apple based in the US, with Satep Job founding Apple.

----------


## biff

Good post Bettyboo, thanks.

----------


## Bettyboo

> but they are, they dance to a different rhythm to you and i, and it's patronising to think otherwise.


The point is, Tax, it's conventional, it's not inherent or genetic. It's the patronage system that frames it and forces it. 




> but at the present time, the "elite" for want of a better word, are far more likely to move thailand forward to a better place than the "not so elite"


I would take the opposite view. The PADites want to go backwards, they want to move to a time when they controlled all the information, people didn't have smartphones, and the serfs didn't have degrees and hadn't made trips to other countries on low cost airlines...

The fact is that Thailand has changed, but the PADites refuse to accept this fact. Their position is untenable, but they are putting everything on the line because they see controlling the succession as enabling them to continue as before. It is not before, we cannot go back and unmake smartphones, the internet and low cost airlines... If we did, we would be North Korea. That is the big problem - the army/PADites want to make Thailand as close to a 'North Korea/Myanmar' as possible because that's the only way they can maintain their ideology. But, in Thailand in 2014, that's just not possible, thus, the PADites/army have no solution, it can nly ever be temporary and then the natural movement and balancing will be even more violent and difficult for their side.

The army/PADites offer no future at all.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> I wonder what Thailand would have made of Steve Jobs if he had been Thai.
> 
>  I suspect he would be serving life in exile and we would still have had Microsoft, Dell and Apple based in the US, with Satep Job founding Apple.


Why? Did Steve Jobs make a power-grab in the USA in order to maximise his fortune, roping in all the most venal, money-grubbing kleptocrats of the last quarter century and giving them a second lease on life at the trough?

----------


## zygote1

> Originally Posted by zygote1
> 
> The military won't know how to respond to these people either.
> 
> 
> Really?


In respect to the original comment, IMO a valid point was raised. The type of people referred to are  tech savvy and will find ways to circumvent the suspension of civil liberties.  As much as some people want to generalize younger Thais as stupid and lazy, there is a large number who are not, and they won't be as easily silenced as people were 2 or 3 coups ago, and certainly not 5 coups ago. I don't think the middle aged  and older military hierarchy and the elderly senators who they are working with quite understand how social media works ,let alone  how SMS mass messaging, facebook etc. can work. One need only look at what happened in Egypt when there was the civil unrest. It was next to impossible to shut down social media without bringing electronic commerce and the affiliated activities to a halt.  Mind you, in looking at some of the UDD leadership, I don't think the lack of understanding is restricted to the military.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> illegal and corrupt to you maybe, but perfectly justified by many thais according to their beliefs and traditions.


In that case, the corruption call for removal of elected government is moot. But that was the yellow shirt main refrain

----------


## zygote1

> Originally Posted by Thormaturge
> 
> 
> I wonder what Thailand would have made of Steve Jobs if he had been Thai.
> 
>  I suspect he would be serving life in exile and we would still have had Microsoft, Dell and Apple based in the US, with Satep Job founding Apple.
> 
> 
> Why? Did Steve Jobs make a power-grab in the USA in order to maximise his fortune, roping in all the most venal, money-grubbing kleptocrats of the last quarter century and giving them a second lease on life at the trough?


Hmm. He was probably worse.  According to Walter Isaacson's biography of Jobs he could be nasty, vindictive, malicious (he regularly parked in handicapped parking  areas)  impolite/rude, a control freak,  spiteful,  a man who thought nothing of publicly humiliating employees, having psycho tantrums, taking credit  for well received  products and designs that other people had done etc. This is the guy famous for denying the paternity of a child and not assuming his legal and moral responsibilities for  that child such that the kid and her mother were on welfare.

----------


## Seekingasylum

I'm sorry, but Betty your analysis simply doesn't hold water. Presumably, like all so -called pundits who can only see Thai society in your over - simplified terms, you cling to your beliefs because it is how you reduce things to your level of comprehension.

For every PADite overlord, there is another kamnan ruling his roost in his own sweet way having achieved power and wealth through the same patronage exercised by your bogey men. Newin Chidchob and his ilk in the north East right down to the mafia dynasty in Chonburi, all demonstrate that with the right power play anyone can grab a slice of the cake. It's the way things are here. 

Thailand simply cannot do democracy and the baggage that comes with it. By all means attribute all the ills of Thailand to those nasty folk in their ivory towers but you are only conning yourself.

Thaksin developed megalomania and couldn't accept his own limitations. He had to go and this latest coup is the coffin lid being hammered home on his mad ambition. Let him rot.

----------


## OhOh

> *The US has led widespread international criticism of a military takeover in Thailand as the South-East Asian nation spent its first night under curfew.*
> 
> US Secretary of State John Kerry said there was "no justification", and $10m in bilateral aid could be suspended.
> 
> France and Germany condemned the coup, with the UN expressing serious concern.
> BBC News - Thailand's military criticised as coup takes hold


Thailand
_"
__The United States has endorsed the declaration of martial law, and  refused to describe it as a coup. State Department spokesperson Jen  Psaki said she was troubled by restrictions on the media but hailed  the army for organising dialogue between the parties. The Obama  administration did not condemn the Constitutional Courts decisions to  annul the February election and remove Yingluck as prime minister._
_Washington,  which supported the 2006 coup, regards the Thai military as an  important ally in its pivot to Asia, including the military buildup  across the Asia-Pacific region against China. The declaration of martial  law followed a visit to Bangkok last month by US Assistant Secretary of  State Daniel Russel, during which he held talks with the government,  Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and other unnamed stakeholders."_




One month after a senior US politician visits and it all kick off. How much money have the US invested in one or other of the political leaders?





Where would the new capitals of the Northern or Southern tribes be Tribes be? Adding another puppet state around China would suit the third world ex global policeman. Will the Chinese start invading to protect the large Chinese population of Thailand. Will they hold naval "exercises" in the Gulf of Thailand to show support?

----------


## Bettyboo

^yes, it's called the patronage system, it thoroughly pervades and organizes Thai society. It is framed and comes from the top. 

But, it is changing. It is conventional, and conventions are never static, they always move both within and without society. The PADites are trying to arrest this movement; it is impossible...

The PADites offer nothing new in the course of history, just another group who tried the impossible and lost... (did I use the wrong tense???)

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Thailand " The United States has endorsed the declaration of martial law, and refused to describe it as a coup. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki said she was “troubled by restrictions on the media” but hailed the army for organising “dialogue between the parties.” The Obama administration did not condemn the Constitutional Court’s decisions to annul the February election and remove Yingluck as prime minister. Washington, which supported the 2006 coup, regards the Thai military as an important ally in its “pivot to Asia,”* including the military buildup across the Asia-Pacific region against China.* The declaration of martial law followed a visit to Bangkok last month by US Assistant Secretary of State Daniel Russel, during which he held talks with the government, Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and other unnamed “stakeholders.”"


Think the above bit was worth highlighting too.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Err, Betty it's down to capitalism and their take on it. Once the agrarian poor finally up stumps and move to the cities, as in every other industrial society throughout the developed and developing world, and participate in the wealth generating process then social progress will be inevitable.

Bit not until then. As it is, the Isaan bloc are a millstone around the neck of progress and holding Thailand back, both economically and politically.

----------


## Breny

"Where would the new capitals of the Northern or Southern tribes be Tribes be? Adding another puppet state around China would suit the third world ex global policeman. Will the Chinese start invading to protect the large Chinese population of Thailand. Will they hold naval "exercises" in the Gulf of Thailand to show support?"

Chinas having a fairly big spat with Vietnam at the minute about the ownership of islands in the south china sea, so i doubt that they will send anything just incase it esculates the stiuation.
__________________

----------


## cyrille

> One need only look at what happened in Egypt when there was the civil unrest. It was next to impossible to shut down social media without bringing electronic commerce and the affiliated activities to a halt.


In my opinion the situation in Egypt is a perfect example of what little difference social media can ultimately make.

Do you _really_ think fiddling with your facebook status is a powerful weapon when staring down the barrel of a gun?

----------


## Breny

> Err, Betty it's down to capitalism and their take on it. Once the agrarian poor finally up stumps and move to the cities, as in every other industrial society throughout the developed and developing world, and participate in the wealth generating process then social progress will be inevitable.
> 
> Bit not until then. As it is, the Isaan bloc are a millstone around the neck of progress and holding Thailand back, both economically and politically.


But the millstone feed Thailand with rice,fruit etc, also there are plenty of Issan's living and working in other provinces, so ecomonically they pull their weight. And politically in a democracy have right to vote for whoever they damn well please.

----------


## lom

> If the army detain Y and the Shin family that will look very bad internally and internationally; just stroking the flames. Thus, you'd imagine it'll be a lecture then let them go?


Prayuth has in the past shown that he has quite a sense of humour, he apparently commented yesterday after arresting Suthep, Abhisit and the others that "they will be detained until they have learnt to love each other"  :Smile: 
I wouldn't be the least surprised if his plan is to get them all together and not release them until they have agreed about reforms and a new constitution.

----------


## Bettyboo

I wouldn't call it a sense of humour, Lom. I think he is a very dangerous lunatic.

----------


## OhOh

> Chinas having a fairly big spat with Vietnam


Water pistols at dawn - lets hope it stops there. The Vietnamese burning Taiwanese factories and shops.  Not a cruise missile or aircraft carrier strike force to be seen.

----------


## Thormaturge

> Originally Posted by Thormaturge
> 
> 
> I wonder what Thailand would have made of Steve Jobs if he had been Thai.
> 
>  I suspect he would be serving life in exile and we would still have had Microsoft, Dell and Apple based in the US, with Satep Job founding Apple.
> 
> 
> Why? Did Steve Jobs make a power-grab in the USA in order to maximise his fortune, roping in all the most venal, money-grubbing kleptocrats of the last quarter century and giving them a second lease on life at the trough?


No, but he started with nothing from a modest family with no influence.  Try building an "Apple" in Thailand from nothing and see how long it takes the sharks to eat you alive through money and influence.  If Jobs had been Thai his options would have been to either spend his life mired in the world of deference, backhanders and graft which would have sapped the company dry, or to get out.

----------


## beerlaodrinker

Driving back to Vientiane from udon this morning we saw plenty of army hummers along the highway, and at the freindship bridge, they had trucks with
 Thai number plates backed up for miles, food and fuel imports, mostly, might put the price of things up in Lao if it goes on for a while, they also had soldiers blocking the access to the bridge with all Thai registered cars not being able to cross, they obviously don't want any trouble makers sneaking out

----------


## koman

I'm enjoying the coup immensely.  A constant stream of excellent goose stepping music on all radio station and TV channels.  Makes you want to click your heels and shout _Zieg Heil_ all the time.... then there is the lack of traffic at night on the main road which is nice.  

I wonder if there will be a purge or anything.  Living in any of those tedious western democracies is such a drag compared to LOS.    The army has been very devious and clever sneaking this up on everyone.....and inviting all the politicians to meet inside an army compound so they could round them all up without even going out.....fucking brilliant... :Smile: .

It's pretty clear that free speech and all that phoney democracy BS with elections and voting is way over rated anyway.   Much better to have properly trained people running things and making decisions.

  Away with all the trouble and expense of having elections....which don't solve anything, and just allow silly ignorant people to put inappropriate leaders in place.    Leaders who have to be dismissed for acting too hastily by courts set up by those who should have been the leaders but they just could not persuade the silly ignorant people to elect them.

    Coups are clearly the way forward for any progressive nation that finds itself stuck with an* elected* government.... :Smile:

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Thormaturge
> ...


Err, it seems the irony has gone whistling over that head of yours.

Thaksin was an insignificant bankrupt of no discernible talent with little except family connections which he utilized to gain a reasonable profit from a contract awarded through his police status. He built up his fortune through cronyism, insider knowledge and abuse of power excluding foreign contractors from competing with his telecom business which ended up as the only player in a field where he could, literally, print his own money. A real rags to riches story, eh? The rest of course is just history.

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Latest...*

*http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874...and-coup-live/
*
*2.06pm:* This excellent infographic from AFP summarizes the main points:

 

*1.49pm:* Saksith Saiyasombut          @*Saksith*  Follow 
_Consensus of vox pops on Thai TV (in full military control): ”#ThaiCoup is good, everyone was fighting, things will calm down. Yay!”_

*1.26pm:* A number of Thai terrestrial channels are  due to resume broadcasting later today. These include channels 3, 5, 7, 9  and 11. However, Thai PBS, which continued broadcasting online  yesterday long after other channels were shut down, is not expected to  broadcast. There is no word on whether the block on foreign news  channels such as BBC and CNN will be lifted. 

              bangkokpundit          @*bangkokpundit*  Follow 
       It seems ThaiPBS is being punishment for showing spine. Kudos to them

*1.19pm:* Associated Press’s Malcolm Foster has tweeted  that Yingluck Shinawatra has left the Army Club and is en route to  another military facility:

              Malcolm Foster          @*mjfosterap*  Follow 
_Former Thai PM Yingluck Shinawatra has  left army compound after 30 minutes, aide tells AP, now headed for  another army facility. #ThaiCoup_

*1.12pm:*bangkokpundit          @*bangkokpundit*  Follow 
       Something to watch for today is,who the  embassies will sent to represent them at meeting with junta. Ambassador,  DCM, or Defence Attache?

*1.01pm:* Khaosod reports  that border crossings with Laos have been closed “to prevent Redshirt  activists from leaving the country”. One traveler has tweeted that  foreigners can pass freely:

              Sarah Ball          @*_satelliteeyes*  Follow 
       Direct from a #*Laos* border official: Thai cannot come into Laos, Lao cannot go into #*Thailand*. Foreigners can pass freely. #*ThaiCoup*

*12.20pm:* The Thai authorities have banned 155 people, including politicians and activists, from leaving the country:

              Tulip Naksompop          @*Tulip_Oum*  Follow 
_12:10PM NPOMC announcement: 155 people on  the to-report list are not allowed to exit the country. Person not  report, will be arrested._

*12.05pm:* Former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has arrived at the Army Club following summons

*11.52am:* Associated Press reports that Thailand’s stock market has dropped sharply since yesterday’s coup:Thailand’s stock market fell more than 2 percent a day  after the country’s military seized power in a bloodless coup. Other  Asian markets were mostly higher Friday, helped by weakness in the yen.*11.43am:* Thailand’s coup leaders have called a meeting with foreign diplomats and international organizations at the Army Club at 4pm.

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Red radio station shut down* 
23 May 2014 : The military has seized radio broadcasting equipment from a red shirt a radio station in Udon Thani.

*Bangkok trains, stores to close early* 
23 May 2014 : The BTS  skytrain and the MRT underground services will stop operating at 9pm and   department stores in Bangkok will close their doors at 8pm on Friday.

*Prayuth to brief foreign envoys*
23 May 2014 : Army  chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha, head of the junta's National Peace and  Order Maintaining Council (NPOMC), has called foreign ambassadors,  military attaches and representatives of international organisations in  Bangkok to a meeting on Friday afternoon.

*Nine roads still closed in Bangkok*
23 May 2014 : Nine  roads in Bangkok which were earlier occupied by either pro- or  anti-government protesters remained closed or partially closed on Friday  morning, the day after the military coup in Thailand.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Koman, well done. An excellent argument for repealing universal suffrage and well stated.
 :Smile:

----------


## StrontiumDog

*NPOMC releases representatives of ousted govt, Pheu Thai to failed meeting - The Nation
*
*NPOMC releases representatives of ousted govt, Pheu Thai to failed meeting*

            May 23, 2014  2:12 pm 

*The National Peace and  Order Maintaining Council have released representatives of the ousted  government and the Pheu Thai Party, who were captured following a failed  meeting Thursday. They were released from the First Infantry Regiment of Royal Guards at 1  am Friday.*

            According to a source, former justice minister Chaikasem Nitisiri,  former PM's Office Minister Varathep Ratanakorn, former deputy education  minister Sermsak Pongpanit, former deputy finance minister Tanusak  Lekuthai and former transport minister Chadchart Sittipunt were  released.

    Three of five Pheu Thai representatives  were also been released at the same time. The three are deputy party  leader Viroj Pao-in, Wan Muhamad Noor Matha, a member of the party's  strategies committee and Chusak Sirinil, a member of the party's legal  team.

    But Pheu Thai secretary general Phutham Wechayachai and party spokesman Prompong Nopparit have not been released yet.

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Abhisit, Democrat representatives to failed meeting released - The Nation
*
*Abhisit, Democrat representatives to failed meeting released*

            May 23, 2014  1:56 pm 
*
The coup makers have  released Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and four Democrat  representatives who attended the failed seven-partite meeting at the  Army Club.*

They were released at twenty minutes after midnight.

----------


## koman

http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874...and-coup-live/

Some chatter from sources other than the Bangkok Post...........


1.49pm: Saksith Saiyasombut @Saksith  Follow 
Consensus of vox pops on Thai TV (in full military control): #ThaiCoup is good, everyone was fighting, things will calm down. Yay!

1.26pm: A number of Thai terrestrial channels are due to resume broadcasting later today. These include channels 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11. However, Thai PBS, which continued broadcasting online yesterday long after other channels were shut down, is not expected to broadcast. There is no word on whether the block on foreign news channels such as BBC and CNN will be lifted. 

 bangkokpundit @bangkokpundit  Follow 
 It seems ThaiPBS is being punishment for showing spine. Kudos to them

1.19pm: Associated Presss Malcolm Foster has tweeted that Yingluck Shinawatra has left the Army Club and is en route to another military facility:

 Malcolm Foster @mjfosterap  Follow 
Former Thai PM Yingluck Shinawatra has left army compound after 30 minutes, aide tells AP, now headed for another army facility. #ThaiCoup

1.12pm:bangkokpundit @bangkokpundit  Follow 
 Something to watch for today is,who the embassies will sent to represent them at meeting with junta. Ambassador, DCM, or Defence Attache?

1.01pm: Khaosod reports that border crossings with Laos have been closed to prevent Redshirt activists from leaving the country. One traveler has tweeted that foreigners can pass freely:

 Sarah Ball @_satelliteeyes  Follow 
 Direct from a #Laos border official: Thai cannot come into Laos, Lao cannot go into #Thailand. Foreigners can pass freely. #ThaiCoup

12.20pm: The Thai authorities have banned 155 people, including politicians and activists, from leaving the country:

 Tulip Naksompop @Tulip_Oum  Follow 
12:10PM NPOMC announcement: 155 people on the to-report list are not allowed to exit the country. Person not report, will be arrested.

12.05pm: Former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has arrived at the Army Club following summons

11.52am: Associated Press reports that Thailands stock market has dropped sharply since yesterdays coup:
Thailands stock market fell more than 2 percent a day after the countrys military seized power in a bloodless coup. Other Asian markets were mostly higher Friday, helped by weakness in the yen.

11.43am: Thailands coup leaders have called a meeting with foreign diplomats and international organizations at the Army Club at 4pm.
__________________

----------


## StrontiumDog

*https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/23752529...ands-stranded/
*
*Thai ambassador called in for talks*

  
                   May 23, 2014, 5:09 pm     


Bishop says Thai coup a volatile situation

Thailand's  ambassador to Australia has been called in by the federal government  following confirmation of a military coup in the Southeast Asian nation.

Maris Sangiampongsa visited the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade office in Canberra on Friday afternoon.

Foreign  Minister Julie Bishop has expressed grave concerns about developments  in Thailand, describing the situation on the ground as "volatile".

Thailand's  army chief has ordered demonstrators on both sides of the kingdom's  bitter political divide off the streets after seven months of rallies in  the capital.

The development came after the military imposed  martial law earlier this week and follows the dismissal earlier this  month of prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

Thousands of  Australians could be at risk of being stranded or left out of pocket as a  result of a military coup in Thailand with insurance companies unlikely  to cover any claims that stem from the unrest.

Thailand's army  chief on Thursday ordered demonstrators on both sides of the kingdom's  bitter political divide off the streets after seven months of rallies in  the capital.

The development came after the military imposed  martial law on Tuesday and follows the dismissal earlier this month of  prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

A nation-wide curfew has been  imposed from 10pm until 5am, gatherings of more than five people have  been banned and the constitution has been suspended.

Ms Bishop  says the Australian government is seeking more information about  developments in Thailand, and warned Australians travelling to Bangkok  to exercise a high degree of caution.

"We are gravely concerned  that the army chief has announced that the military is assuming all  government functions in Thailand," Ms Bishop told ABC radio on Friday.

"It  is a volatile situation. We are monitoring it closely but people need  to pay close attention to their personal security and their travel  plans."

While normal travel insurance claims would most likely be  honoured, claims stemming from the coup, such as the cancellation of a  flight or additional accommodation costs, could be rejected.

Policies  bought before the unrest began would likely be honoured, but AAP  understands that some insurers had applied new rules governing claims  caused by the strife as far back as January 14.

It's unknown  exactly how many Australians are currently in Thailand, but at least  5000 are registered with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade's  Smartraveller website. Many more are not registered.

Insurance  Council of Australia boss Rob Whelan said claims arising from riots,  wars, rebellions, civil disruptions and military insurrection were  common exclusions in travel insurance policies.

Mr Whelan said policies were not voided by the coup, but exclusions would apply.

"Though  travel insurance will usually not cover you for claims arising from  military insurrection, including any restrictions to your activities,  travellers remain covered for normal travel-related claims," he said in a  statement.

Mr Whelan said some travel insurers had already  introduced embargoes on new policies for Australians intending to travel  to Thailand.

The Australian government on Friday was continuing  to advise travellers to "exercise a high degree of caution" and for  people to avoid all demonstrations, protest sites, political events and  large-scale public gatherings.

----------


## StrontiumDog

* http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-p...546755330.html

Former Thai prime minister summoned for talks                * 

*Yingluck Shinawatra among 100 ex-government figures asked to report to military authorities following army takeover.*

                                                                                                    Last updated: 23 May 2014 07:35                                              

                                                            Thailand's former authority figures have reported to  the new military junta after it summoned the entire deposed government  and members of the politically influential Shinawatra family following a  coup.

 Yingluck Shinawatra, the former prime minister, and Niwattumrong  Boonsongpaisan, her temporary replacement, were among the 39 prominent  figures who reported to the designated military compound in Bangkok on  Friday by the 0300 GMT deadline.

 The army's intentions for summoning the people were not clear.

      Thailand's army chief, General Prayuth Chan-ocha, seized control of  the government on Thursday, two days after he declared martial law,  saying the military had to restore order and push through reforms after  six months of turmoil.

 The military  declared a curfew  from 10pm until 5am, suspended the constitution and detained some politicians. Rival protest camps were ordered to disperse.

 The capital, Bangkok, was calm and activity appeared to be  relatively normal early on Friday, although the military has ordered  all schools and universities to stay closed.

 "There's a little bit more military presence but we're not looking at  a situation with tanks rolling onto the streets," Al Jazeera's Scott  Heidler, reporting from Bangkok, said.

 Regular television schedules were suspended with all stations running  the same news programme, featuring content from Channel 5, the army's  own channel.

 It showed pictures of the areas, now cleared, that had been taken  over in and around Bangkok by various political groups since  anti-government protests flared up last November.

 "There is no justification for this military coup," John Kerry, US secretary of state, said in a statement on Thursday.

 "This act will have negative implications for the  US-Thai relationship, especially for our relationship with the  Thai military. We are reviewing our military and other assistance  and engagements, consistent with US law."

*Global concern*

 Kerry said he was concerned by reports that senior Thai political leaders had been detained and called for their release.

 He urged the "immediate" restoration of civilian government and the lifting of curbs on the media.

 European and Asian nations expressed concern over the coup, with  Germany, France and Britain issuing statements of condemnation, Japan's  foreign minister calling it "regrettable" and Singapore urging all sides  to avoid violence.

 Ban Ki-moon, UN secretary-general, said he was "seriously concerned"  and appealed "for a prompt return to constitutional, civilian,  democratic rule and an all-inclusive dialogue that will pave the way for  long-term peace and prosperity".

 Under US law, with limited exceptions, no US foreign aid may flow to  "any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by  military coup d'etat or decree".

 The Pentagon said it was reviewing its military  cooperation, including an ongoing joint exercise in Thailand involving  about 700 US soldiers of the Marine Corps and sailors.

 Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said that as much as about $10m in annual bilateral aid could be cut.*

THAI CRISIS* _     A proposed political amnesty bill sparked mass protests late  2013.  Critics feared it would allow ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra,  convicted  of corruption, to return.

His sister Yingluck, then PM, called early elections. The   Constitutional Court declared results invalid due to opposition   disruption.

On May 7, the Constitutional Court ruled that Yingluck had to step   down for abuse of power. Parts of her government stayed on in a   caretaker capacity._

----------


## somtamslap

It isn't riap roy, though. It's fucking crap.


So, this coup. Kinda of a big deal, huh?

----------


## Necron99

> It isn't riap roy, though. It's fucking crap.
> 
> 
> So, this coup. Kinda of a big deal, huh?


Only if they start putting people up against the wall.
Otherwise business as usual.
Someone may abdi...err resign and someone else may take a top job while the army is keeping everything calm.

If they don't turn the telly back on soon though I'm gonna start bashing heads together..

----------


## daveboy

When does the civil war begin then ?

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Only if they start putting people up against the wall.


Ain't gonna happen man.

Suspensions from politics and some light jail terms.
Maybe small amounts of hardcore/paid groups cracking each others heads here or there but that'll be it.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by Thormaturge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> ...


Indeed, he was quoted as saying (about his business empire) 

'I owe it all to Yai Jod'

'Big Jod' was some Generallissimo whose palm needed greasing in return for free access to the goldmine.

----------


## Mr Lick

House arrests possibly, passport confiscation, asset & money laundering checks etc:

A few squeaky bums all round maybe if the top General is sitting in judgement   :Smile:

----------


## Seekingasylum

Yes, Moog, I believe it was the old warhorse Chavalit Yongchaiyudh. The story goes that he tipped Thaksin the wink before the baht was devalued thus allowing him to minimize his exposure which sank many others caught out in 1997.

----------


## Yasojack

Coup scares off HK group tours to Thailand | Thai PBS English News


Coup scares off HK group tours to Thailand
in Business | May 23, 2014	 
All group tours from Hong Kong to Thailand are canceled from Friday in the wake of the coup.
The military coup promoted Hong Kong’s Security Bureau to raise a ‘red travel alert’ in the city, the Travel Industry Council announced Thursday.

South China Morning Post said a total of 70 groups with 1,300 people would be affected.

HK Travel Industry Council executive director Tung Yao-chung said six of eight groups scheduled to set off Thursday also decided to cancel the trip, while the remaining two had decided to continue their tours to Chiang Mai and Phuket.

He said the agencies would meet again on Wednesday next week to decide the fate of groups scheduled to set off on May 31 and later.

There are currently 1,200 people in 50 tour groups in Thailand and another 1,200 individual Hong Kong visitors, according to Tung.

The red alert means people intending to visit the country should adjust their travel plans and avoid non-essential travel, including travel for leisure purposes.

For those already in Thailand, the government is urging visitors to exercise caution, attend to personal safety and avoid protests and large gatherings of people.

Tung said last night the council had not received any requests for assistance from Hong Kong tourists in Thailand.

Tung said about there were usually about 100 tour groups traveling to Thailand every week at this time of the year.

Hong Thai Travel Services said two tours with 60 people heading to Bangkok on Friday morning have been canceled, while two other tour groups to Phuket would go ahead.

A spokeswoman for the company said 30 tours with some 800 people currently in Thailand were all safe.

----------


## Yasojack

All free TV stations, except TPBS, to resume normal broadcast this evening | Thai PBS English News

All free TV stations, except TPBS, to resume normal broadcast this evening
in Business | May 23, 2014	 
The National Peace and Order Maintaining Council (NPOMC) will allow all free TV stations which include Channel 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11 to resume broadcasting their normal programmes this evening, secretary general of the National Broadcasting and Telecommunications Commission (NBTC) Mr Thakorn Tanthasit said.
All free TV channels, except TPBS, will begin normal programmes this evening on order of Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha, director of the NPOMC, he said.

Radio stations are not included yet, he said.

He said TPBS is not allowed yet not because it has broadcast on YouTube though broadcast of all stations were suspended by the NPOMC after the coup.

He said it was not known when TPBS would be allowed on air again, pending further instruction from the NPOMC.

He said the president of the Digital TV Operators Association Suparb Kleekachai is discussing with the NBTC board chairman Col Natee Sukonrat for a possibility to allow 24 digital channels to begin broadcasting today.

----------


## Necron99

Some scrolling message on the TV, anyone got a translation?

----------


## StrontiumDog

*ThaiPBS English News*     ‏@*ThaipbsEngNews*  3m 

PDRC supporters hold signs and flowers for moral support to the army in front of Thai Army Club via: @*Sanyakorn_TPBS* pic.twitter.com/0EMzbyNjoX

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Bangkok Post*                @BPbreakingnews                          ·                             7m     

ACM Prajin Juntong oversees economic affairs for the NPOMC including the finance, commerce, industry and transport ministries.

*Pheu Thai awaits Thaksin's orders* 
23 May 2014 : The Pheu Thai  Party opted for quiet mode on Friday, waiting for directions from former   prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a party source said.

*Five TV stations to resume broadcasts* 
23 May 2014 : The National  Peace and Order Maintaining Council (NPOMC) has ordered TV Channels 3,  5, 7, 9 and 11 to resume normal programming on Friday evening, Takorn  Tantasith, secretary-general of the National Broadcasting and  Telecommunications Commission (NBTC), said.

*Bail for some PAD leaders revoked*
23 May 2014 : The  Criminal Court on Friday revoked bail for three former leaders of the  People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) for their participation in  protests against the Yingluck Shinawatra government late last year.

----------


## chassamui

> Some scrolling message on the TV, anyone got a translation?


Thunderstorm here, picture gone completely.
I have thunder in lieu of marching music, and heavy rain to dampen my resistance to the coup.

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Activist Sombat challenges coup-makers | Bangkok Post: Most recent

Sombat: Catch me if you can*

Published: 23 May 2014 at 15.11
Online news: 
Writer: Aekarach Sattaburuth

Sombat Boonngam-anong challenged coup-makers on Friday to find and arrest him after his name was placed on a list of people who must report to the junta leaders. 

 The Red Sunday Group core member posted a Facebook message entitled, ‘’Report?’’ shrugging off the order with an image displaying the message, ‘’Catch me if you can’’.

Mr Sombat reiterated his opposition to a military coup and said he would not obey the announcement summoning him to report to the generals' National Peace and Order Maintaining Council (NPOMC).

His message was posted on social media before the council warned that those who ignore the order to report to the NPOMC would be arrested and prosecuted.

He is among the 155 people summoned to report to the coup council.

As an activist, Mr Sombat opposed the coup in 2006, the military crackdown at Ratchaprasong in 2010 and the Pheu Thai Party's push for a blanket amnesty bill last year.

----------


## Merrimack

Some BBC audio on this. Starts at 2:32 on the ticker at BBC. At 6:50 Giles Ungpagorn and Saksith Saiyasombut counter dem party propaganda on the BBC. 

BBC World Service - World Have Your Say, What's wrong with Thai Democracy?

----------


## Dandyhole

White House press secretary Jay Carney urges immediate restoration of civilian government.

----------


## Thormaturge

> Err, it seems the irony has gone whistling over that head of yours.
> 
> Thaksin was an insignificant bankrupt of no discernible talent with little except family connections which he utilized to gain a reasonable profit from a contract awarded through his police status. He built up his fortune through cronyism, insider knowledge and abuse of power excluding foreign contractors from competing with his telecom business which ended up as the only player in a field where he could, literally, print his own money. A real rags to riches story, eh? The rest of course is just history.


The point you seem to have completely missed is that this is the only way for ordinary Thai folk to survive in business here.  That is the point I am making.  If anyone tried setting up something like Apple here they would be mired in a cesspit of cronyism, and abuse of power by competitors excluding them from competing with their own businesses.  Business in Thailand is a shark pool.  Open a 7-11 franchise and if it seems remotely successful someone else opens another one next door so half your profits evaporate.  There are no controls.  Thaksin's problem was that he was sharp and his competitors would prefer he was as blunt as Abhisit.

----------


## nidhogg

> Some scrolling message on the TV, anyone got a translation?


From the missus:  its an army message along the lines of we took over to help, not do bad things, please follow the rules, keep the curfew and blah blah blah

(although for some reason my missus pronounces it pla pla pla...)....think she got bored......

----------


## xanax

They could have helped people who wanted to vote of course in Feb, must have been too busy.

----------


## nidhogg

True visions is back!

----------


## baldrick

> and blah blah blah
> 
> (although for some reason my missus pronounces it pla pla pla...)....think she got bored......


Or hungry   :Smile: 

]

----------


## nidhogg

> and blah blah blah
> 
> (although for some reason my missus pronounces it pla pla pla...)....think she got bored......
> 			
> 		
> 
> Or hungry 
> 
> ]


Funnily enough, she was indeed cooking fish soup when I dragged her away to translate....

----------


## Necron99

> True visions is back!



Fucking liar.
You did that on purpose didn't you.

Red sent....

----------


## aging one

I was looking for real TV and found something shocking. The blocked channels are showing VDO of the Thai army in action. On the borders, training for special ops in the south, and then it leads into the new PM general whats his name, how great he is how great the army is and how they will lead Thailand into ASEAN.  Its getting a bit freaky as this was all English subtitled. Some perfect other mangling the language. But that clip was not made in 12 hours.   It took a while to get something like this. So for sure pre orchestrated coup... Wow.... Check in out if you can.... Wow.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> True visions is back!
> 
> 
>  
> Fucking liar.
> You did that on purpose didn't you.
> ...


honest gov - I had 5 mins of NCIS - went down to see if the missus tv was back - whihc it was, posted and two minutes later was back to propaganda - hoping it is a long break and that we will be back to reasonable soon!!


hang in there!!!

----------


## nidhogg

singing schoolgirls now - beats that martial music crap which was seriously doing my head in!

Fuck me - back to the logos and martial music shit.....

----------


## Necron99

> Originally Posted by Necron99
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by nidhogg
> ...



More Reds...MORE!

If it's not back up for the rugby tomorrow I'm holding you personally responsible.
And if it's not back by Wed SoO1...I hope you have a deep hole to hide in....

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Necron99
> ...


 
I have Prayuth on speed dial.  I will get it sorted - honest guv....

----------


## pickel

TV's back on here, but no foreign news channels yet.

----------


## Dandyhole

Prayuth insisting on social, economic, political reforms before permitting any election.

----------


## xanax

did he say owt about 90 day reporting?

----------


## Mid

NPOMC stresses protection of Monarchy, those who defame or insult the Monarchy would be dealt with harshly http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/npomc-introduces-new-national-administrative-structure/ … #*thaicoup*

*https://twitter.com/2Bangkok*

----------


## Mid

NPOMC introduces new national administrative structure answerable to the military http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/npomc-introduces-new-national-administrative-structure/ … #*thaicoup*

*https://twitter.com/2Bangkok*

----------


## Dandyhole

Small anti-coup demonstrations at MBK Bangkok, 100+, kettled by army.

----------


## robuzo

I just heard on the news that Generalissimo Prayuth Chan-ocha is seeking to "organize Thailand." Presumably that will include making the trains run on time.

----------


## Sumbitch

> When does the *civil war* begin then ?


Isaan that an oxymoron?

----------


## taxexile

just reported on the army broadcast that ministry of finance workers have been ordered to work overtime (saturday and sunday) to organise payments to the farmers who have gone unpaid for their rice

----------


## nidhogg

> just reported on the army broadcast that ministry of finance workers have been ordered to work overtime (saturday and sunday) to organise payments to the farmers who have gone unpaid for their rice


 
Oooh.  GOOD move..........

----------


## StrontiumDog

This is most revealing...and rather worrying....

Insider's report on coup decision | Bangkok Post: Most recent

*Insider's report on coup decision*

Published: 23 May 2014 at 17.37
Online news:

Less than 24 hours after the coup, Matichon Online had an account of events leading up to what is probably the most publicly staged coup in history. 

This is its report:

At 2pm on Thursday, representatives of seven groups began the second day of peace talks hosted by army commander Prayuth Chan-ocha.

The general began by asking all sides what they could do about the five issues he had asked them to consider on the previous day, a source at the closed-door meeting told Matichon Online.

Wan Muhamad Nor Matha of the Pheu Thai Party said the best his party could do was to ask ministers to take leave of absence or vacation.

Chaikasem Nitisiri of the caretaker government insisted cabinet members would be breaking the law and could be sued later if they resigned.

Abhisit Vejjajiva of the Democrat Party disagreed, citing as a precedent Visanu Krue-ngam, who had previously resigned as acting deputy prime minister, but  Mr Chaikasem stood his ground.

Veerakarn Musikapong of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) said this debate was useless and a person would need a mattress and a pillow if they were to continue with it.

This was like discussing a religious faith in which everyone was firm in his belief. The army chief had a lot on his shoulders now because he came when the water was already waist-high.

If he continued, Mr Veerakarn said, he would be drowned. The army chief should walk away and announced there would be election. That way, his name would be untarnished.

At this point, Gen Prayuth snapped back: "Stop it. Religious issues I don't know much about. What I do know is I'll hunt down each and every one of those 'infidels'. Don't worry about me drowning. I'm a good swimmer and I've studied the situation for three years.

"Back in 2010, I didn't have absolute power. So don't fight me. I was accused of accepting six billion baht in exchange of doing nothing. I insist I didn't get even one baht."

At this point, Jatuporn Prompan of the UDD appeared more appeasing, saying since an election could not  be held now anyway, the best solution was to hold a referendum on whether national reform should come before or after the next election.

The debate went on for a while before Suthep Thaugsuban of the People's Democratic Reform Committee said political parties were not involved in this.

"This was a problem between the UDD and the PDRC," he declared.

He proposed the two groups meet in a separate session.

Mr Abhisit said the government should also join in, but Mr Suthep insisted on only the people's groups.

Gen Prayuth allowed the two groups to meet separately.

In the meantime, Mr Abhisit suggested other participants should go home now that the two sides were in talks, but Gen Prayuth insisted on everyone staying where they were until a conclusion was reached.

The UDD and PDRC sides talked for 30 minutes.

After that, Gen Prayuth led them back to the meeting, saying he would announce the results of the talks.

At that point, Mr Suthep asked for a minute and walked over to say something with Gen Prayuth, with Mr Jatuporn present.

When they were done, Gen Prayuth said: "It's nothing. We talked about how the restrooms are not in order."

After that, the army chief asked the government side whether it insisted on not resigning.

Mr Chaikasem said:" We won't resign".

Gen Prayuth then declared: "If that's the case, the Election Commission need not talk about the polls and the Senate need not talk about Section 7."

He then stood up and spoke in a loud voice: "I'm sorry. I have to seize the ruling power."

It was 4.32pm.

At that point some of the attendees still thought he was joking.

They changed their minds when the general walked to the exit and turned back to tell them in a stern voice: "You all stay here. Don't go anywhere."

He then left the room.

After that armed soldiers came to detain the participants in groups. Notably, Prompong Nopparit who came in the government's quota was detained with the UDD group in a separate room.

Mr Veerakarn had a smile on his face and forgot his cane.

Mr Abhisit told Varathep Rattanakorn and  Chadchart Sittipunt of the government: "I told you so".

A pale-faced Chadchart snapped:"So what? What's the point of saying it now?"

The military put the Democrat and Pheu Thai parties in the same room while the rest were put in different rooms.

The senators and election commissioners were let out first.

The rest is history.

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Investigators tracking funds sent out of thailand | Bangkok Post: Most recent

NPOMC tracking politicians' money*

Investigators tracking funds sent out of Thailand

Published: 23 May 2014 at 17.58
Online news: Writer: Wassayos Ngamkham

Soldiers acting under an order of the National Peace and Order Maintaining Council (NPOMC) are overseeing a search for evidence of secret funds transfers involving politicians and protest leaders before the May 22 coup, seeking the money trail. 

About 50 army soldiers arrived on three Humvees at the Crime Suppression Division in Bangkok on Friday morning, seeking CSD officers' help in tracking down the money.

The unit's commanders first met Pol Lt Col Torsak Sukwimol, acting chief of CSD commandoes. Later Pol Maj Gen Kowit Wongrungroj, deputy commissioner of the Central Investigation Bureau, and CSD deputy commanders Pol Col Pornsak Surasit and Pol Col Krisada Kanchana-alongkorn arrived to acknowledge the NPOMC order and follow it.

The NPOMC wanted the CSD to help in the  search for funds transferred out of the country by political and demonstration groups active before the coup.

The CSD deployed six teams of 13 officers each to search six targeted locations, suspected of aiding in funds transfers, in Bangkok and nearby provinces on Friday afternoon.

Soldiers took police to the targets, that included the residences of people with political influence and the house of a close aide of a high-ranking government official who played an important role in the now-disbanded Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order.

Each team comprised five heavily armed commandoes and eight plainclothes officers. They searched for not only documents but also weapons and were closely supervised by police colonels and inspectors of the Central Investigation Bureau.

The authorities collected documents from the locations for further examination, but initially

did not find any important evidence.

It was reported later that the Linda money exchange shop on Pradiphat Road in Phaya Thai district was  one of the places searched.

Authorities seized Thai and foreign money worth about 26 million baht and seven big boxes of documents from the shop, the report said.

----------


## Mid

> Mr Abhisit told Varathep Rattanakorn and Chadchart Sittipunt of the government: "I told you so".


words simple fail , best I can come up with on short notice is 

What a Tool .

----------


## Mid

> Investigators tracking funds sent out of Thailand





> search for evidence of secret funds transfers


as usual an editor at the BP would be a wonderful thing ...................

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Prayuth puts farmers first | Bangkok Post: news

Prayuth assigns duties, pledges to pay farmers*

Published: 23 May 2014 at 19.01
Online news: PoliticsWriter: Online Reporters

Paying struggling rice farmers will be one of the first priorities of the new administration, coup leader Prayuth Chan-ocha said, as he began to divide up government responsibilities among leaders of the armed forces and police. 

Gen Prayuth, who is also acting prime minister, said a budget had been made available to make payments to farmers, who are owed hundreds of millions of baht under the failed pledging scheme run by the former Pheu Thai government. He said he believed the farmers would get their money within 15 to 20 days.

The army chief also said that before an election can be held, the country needed to undergo reforms in a wide range of economic, social and political areas.

Gen Prayuth made the comments as he set about dividing up government responsibilities a day after seizing control after talks to find a political solution failed.

ACM Prajin Janthong, the air force chief, will supervise seven economic ministries, according to an announcement made by the National Peace and Order Maintaining Council (NPOMC).

The seven ministries are finance, commerce, industry, agriculture, energy, labour and transport.

Adm Narong Pipattanasai, the navy chief, will oversee ministries related to social issues: natural resources and environment, education, science and technology, culture, social development and human security, and tourism and sports.

Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patmapragorn will surpervise four ministries: defence, interior, information and communication technology, and foreign affairs.

Pol Gen Adul Saengsingkaew, the national police chief, will oversee 20 government agencies including the Secretariat of the Prime Minister, the Secretariat of the Cabinet, the Office of the Council of State, the Office of the Civil Service Commission, and the National Economic and Social Development Board.

Gen Prayuth himself will be in charge of five government agencies including the Internal Security Operations Command, the National Police, the National Security Council, the National Intelligence Agency and the Budget Bureau.

The NPOMC decided to have three layers of administration, with policymakers forming the top layer and comprising comprise the NPOMC chief, his four deputies and the secretary-general. The NPOMC will set immediate and long-term policies to be transformed into operation, the statement said.

The second layer of administration would transform policy into operation and covers six fields including security, the economy, psychological and social welfare, law and justice, special operations, and agencies directly under the supervision of the NPOMC chief.

The third layer is operational which will cover government agencies and the Peace and Order Maintaining Command headed by the commander of Army Region 1.

Gen Udomdej Seetabutr will head the NPOMC Secretariat.

In a meeting with heads of government agencies, Gen Prayuth told them that the country needed reform in all spheres -- economic, social and political -- before an election and that all sides must agree together.

He also emphasised that one key policy would be to ensure that no attempts would be made to insult the royal institution.

Touching briefly on details of other work he would like to see done, Gen Prayuth cited the example of integrated infrastructure development, such as building roads along both sides of the Chao Phraya River to systematically solve traffic problems, and to promote an efficient water management system.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Prayuth insisting on social, economic, political reforms before permitting any election.


Reform for who?

----------


## StrontiumDog

> Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
> 
> 
> Mr Abhisit told Varathep Rattanakorn and Chadchart Sittipunt of the government: "I told you so".
> 
> 
> words simple fail , best I can come up with on short notice is 
> 
> What a Tool .


Yeah, agree....waiting for Abi to come out and condemn the coup...nothing yet....

----------


## StrontiumDog

MBK anti-coup protest photos....happening now....

*Zashnain Zainal*     ‏@*bedlamfury*  2m                                  RT @*jonmarsk*: 

1923: Army pointing water cannon on fire engine at protesters near MBK #*thaicoup* pic.twitter.com/IQm6EEbOPF #*humanrights* #*NoCoup*

 
 
pic.twitter.com/PkEsqD3Yu3

----------


## Mid

> Reform for who?


you need to ask ?

It is called a gerrymander

_manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favour one party or class._

https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr...der+definition

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Zashnain Zainal*     ‏@*bedlamfury*  10m                                  RT @*Thai_Talk*: 

'Jeab', the journalist in the famous anti-coup picture was fired by her employer Mono 29 TV today 'pic.twitter.com/jr6gETwH4Y

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by Mid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
> ...


He seems a fairly reasonable man but he's hardly a profile in courage.

----------


## nidhogg

Bloody hell.  Farmers, bangkok traffic and water management.....






...it just must be the optimist in me that wonders what a LKY could do for Thailand.....

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Piriyathep K*     ‏@*PKinbangkok*  13m 

Protester arrested on skywalk near Arts Ctr. "@*mod_red*: ภาพขณะทหารขึ้นมาจับตัวผู้ร่วมคัดค้านรปห.บนสกา  ยวอค #*หอศิ*.. pic.twitter.com/48cUmYZfjf”"

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Zashnain Zainal*     ‏@*bedlamfury*  17m                                  RT @*Fishinabucket*: 

Anti-coup protestors getting in scuffles on street in front of BACC #*ThaiCoup* pic.twitter.com/Ch2WR9IxyE #*humanrights* #*Nocoup*

----------


## taxexile

> This is most revealing...and rather worrying....
> 
> Insider's report on coup decision | Bangkok Post: Most recent
> 
> Insider's report on coup decision
> 
> Published: 23 May 2014 at 17.37
> Online news:
> 
> ...


it reads like a monty python sketch, 

and i'm pleased to see the general treated the squabbling idiot politicians with the disdain they deserved, took no shit, banged his fists and told them all to fuck off.

excellent move.

i think the general has hit the ground running and long may he continue.

----------


## Mid

*Richard Barrow*                @RichardBarrow                          ·                             12m     

#*ThaiCoup* RT @*Fishinabucket*: Another arrested dragged across ground & kicked by soldier in front of my eyes at BACC pic.twitter.com/uP1Cgga0Wo

 

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow

----------


## StrontiumDog

> Bloody hell.  Farmers, bangkok traffic and water management.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...it just must be the optimist in me that wonders what a LKY could do for Thailand.....


It's sounding like they are in it for the long haul....

----------


## StrontiumDog

*Ann_nt*     ‏@*annnation_nt*  35m 
                                 The anti-coup protester holds banner NO COUP @*BACC*. Nation Photo/Adisorn Chabsungnuen @*ShareThis* #*ThaiCoup* pic.twitter.com/UkAdl7LCYC

 
 
*noi thamma*     ‏@*noithamma*  37m 
Image of the #*anti* coup protesters: picture, from tonight campaign, BKK pic.twitter.com/lDAusxWc8i

 
 
*Zashnain Zainal*     ‏@*bedlamfury*  31m                                  RT @*MaaDee8*: 
รัฐประหาร คือ ทำลาย ปชต.ทำลาย เสียงสิทธิของ ปชช pic.twitter.com/yMTsNaTYle #*protests* #*Thailand* #*NoCoup* #*ThaiCoup*

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> Bloody hell. Farmers, bangkok traffic and water management.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is quite interesting.  This coup is coming over as extremely well prepared, with a road map in place.  I wonder if Prayuth learned a lot from watching the last damp squib coup which basicaly took place with no idea of where to go.

The idea of Thailand being under control of an organized, determined person who believes in "service" (a very old concept!) is quite attractive, although of course politically abhorent (LOL).

I joked a while ago that it would be a way forward if the army rounded up both sides, put them against a wall and shot them, and told the rest to play nicely.  I got a lot of stick for that.  We are not THAT far off - except for the wall bit.  I kinda like Prayuth bringing them all in, giving them a spanking and basicalyy saying I will clean up your mess, now go sit in the corner......

----------


## aging one

> i think the general has hit the ground running and long may he continue.


Dont agree with that at all but it made a great read....

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Obviously a huge movement  :Smile:

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Wassana has tweeted (apparently) at 7pm that Yingluck and Thaksin family are still in detention location unknown. If true, a full blown Establishment putsch is underway - no holds barred, Army are their enforcers.

----------


## Mid

^

Y in some VIP facility , Army said they won't hold her more than 1 week ...................

----------


## Seekingasylum

Excellent development. They are on the money trail. Always a salutary experience when one's covert theft is exposed for all to see. At least the farmers might now get to see where all that rice pledge dosh went to. Har, har as if nobody knew.

----------


## chassamui

> The idea of Thailand being under control of an organized, determined person who believes in "service" (a very old concept!) is quite attractive, although of course politically abhorent (LOL).


I would be inclined to agree provided he belives in "Service before Self" (an older and more dignified concept).

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Seems Thai TV hasn't been restored as promised. All channels broadcasting an Army TV5 soap.. By the way, have you noticed they've built some spanking new 30 story office tower on their site near Sanam Pao? No plans to relinquish their broadcasting channel - seems expansion has been in the plan for some time. Tower seems nearing completion. Perhaps it will become home to all Thai TV channels?

----------


## Mid

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> The idea of Thailand being under control of an organized, determined person who believes in "service" (a very old concept!) is quite attractive, although of course politically abhorent (LOL).
> 
> 
> I would be inclined to agree provided he belives in "Service before Self" (an older and more dignified concept).



and where was this _organized determined person who believes in service_ when voters where being physically assulted whilst attempting to carry out a privilage they no longer enjoy ?

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Seems Thai TV hasn't been restored as promised.


Yup.

Switched it on for a few hours then switched it off again.

Sensible.

Denying Thais their Lakorns for more than 24 hours in one sitting would seriously bring the country to the brink of civil war  :Smile:

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by chassamui
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by nidhogg
> ...


Probably at home, having a cup of tea and wondering where the fuck the police were?

just a thought.

----------


## Mid

not a very good one as the military had already hamstrung the police .

----------


## KimDidMeGood

> Originally Posted by zygote1
> 
> The military won't know how to respond to these people either.
> 
> 
> Really?


The military seem a bit at a loss seeing brave citizens confronting them. The #AntiCoup protesters I see on Twitter photos do not look like they are staunch Reds, more like Bangkokians from all walks of life, mostly young, holding iPhones and iPads to take photos and post them in social media for the whole world to see.

This isn't 2006 anymore. Back then Bangkokians in the street cheered at soldiers. Today they yell at them, "Get out!", "Kill me now!". Not sure this is what Prayuth expected.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Oh, for goodness sakes, Mid, stop being so squeamish.

The man is on the right lines and if he stays the course the place will be better for it.

I've always said Thailand would benefit from a benign dictator rather than it's utterly bogus and perverted democracy. 

Nice to see one's fantasies coming true. Perhaps he'll do something about the dross from Europe cluttering the place up with their low end villainous ways. I imagine those gangsters who fled to have a cosy refuge under the protection of some scumbag corrupted police colonel will be feeling a tad nervous about their futures.

Har, har.

----------


## nidhogg

> not a very good one as the military had already hamstrung the police .


Ok Mid, I will bite.  Show me where the sitting government called in the army to help with the security for the polls.  Because surely, surely, you cannot be arguing that the army should have well - stepped in uninvited?????

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Really?
>   The #AntiCoup protesters I see on Twitter photos do not look like they are staunch Reds, more like Bangkokians from all walks of life, mostly young, holding iPhones and iPads to take photos and post them in social media for the whole world to see.
> .


They'll wet themselves with blood if shooting starts.

Vague threats of tablet computers, smart phones  and a 'like' campaign on Facebook from some Uni's flabby little angry birds are not going to derail a well-tooled army.

----------


## Rural Surin

> I've always said Thailand would benefit from a benign dictator rather than it's utterly bogus and perverted democracy.


So where have you been, Gent?
It's been like this quite some time now - regardless of the periods of false "democratic" presence.

----------


## Jofrey

More o' the same. 

Enjoy lads and ladies.

----------


## aging one

> Switched it on for a few hours then switched it off again.


My maid can damn well tell you it was 6 minutes maximum. Besides that nobody watches channel 5 Lakorn which is the only thing on .  :Smile:  Every channel including all of True.

----------


## robuzo

> Oh, for goodness sakes, Mid, stop being so squeamish.
> 
> The man is on the right lines and if he stays the course the place will be better for it.
> 
> I've always said Thailand would benefit from a benign dictator rather than it's utterly bogus and perverted democracy. 
> 
> Nice to see one's fantasies coming true. Perhaps he'll do something about the dross from Europe cluttering the place up with their low end villainous ways. I imagine those gangsters who fled to have a cosy refuge under the protection of some scumbag corrupted police colonel will be feeling a tad nervous about their futures.
> 
> Har, har.


"It's," Senor Gente? Har-har, or more appropriately in your case, Haw-Haw. Spending too much time online these days are we, old thing?

Yes, the Thai military are famous for their lack of corruption (airships, subs, mine detectors) and high standards; just ask the Rohingya. May your fantasies continue to come true- maybe a Tak Bai-esque event involving the Euro-lumpen in Pattaya, those who are so unlike you, of course.

----------


## StrontiumDog

> Oh, for goodness sakes, Mid, stop being so squeamish.
> 
> The man is on the right lines and if he stays the course the place will be better for it.
> 
> I've always said Thailand would benefit from a benign dictator rather than it's utterly bogus and perverted democracy. 
> 
> Nice to see one's fantasies coming true. Perhaps he'll do something about the dross from Europe cluttering the place up with their low end villainous ways. I imagine those gangsters who fled to have a cosy refuge under the protection of some scumbag corrupted police colonel will be feeling a tad nervous about their futures.
> 
> Har, har.


The man is a renowned hothead famous for his outbursts and short-temper. 

Hardly someone suitable for such power and responsibility. 

This needs a cool-headed, astute, reasonable person to manage.  He is none of these things. Re-read the Bangkok Post piece where he makes mention of not having "absolute power" previously. Such a comment makes me extremely anxious. 

The army is utterly corrupt and has just as many "mafia" style individuals in it as the police here....No one gets to the top, in the police or the army, without having been involved in some dubious practices. 

Anyway, 2010 should inform even the dullest mind of how things are with the army here. And should also inform most of exactly what kind of person is now in charge.

----------


## Yasojack

Farmers will be paid in 15 to 20 days, bet no one seen that coming. :rofl:  made me laugh out loud, wonder what populist policies prayuth and co have up there sleeves. :Smile: 





> just reported on the army broadcast that ministry of finance workers have been ordered to work overtime (saturday and sunday) to organise payments to the farmers who have gone unpaid for their rice

----------


## StrontiumDog

http://asiancorrespondent.com/122874...and-coup-live/

*8.55pm:* Meanwhile in the Northeastern city of Khon Kaen, via our friends at _The Isaan Record:_Silent Anti-Coup protests in Khon Kaen by student activists #protests #ThaiCoup #Thailand #Coup2014 pic.twitter.com/H5ahL0jkGc
 — The Isaan Record (@isaanrecord) May 23, 2014*8.25pm:* _Naew Na_ reports that Yingluck is being moved to a military base in Saraburi and intended to be held for three days. *7.50pm:* Meanwhile,  the whereabouts of former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra and her  inner circle are still unknown. Bangkok Post’s military  correspondent Wassana Nanuam tweets that she and other family member are  being detained by the military but unsure where: 

              Deep Blue Sea          @*WassanaNanuam*  Follow 
       แหล่งข่าว ยืนยันว่า อดีตนายกฯ ยิ่งลักษณ์  โดยทหารควบคุมตัว ไว้แล้วพรัอมแกนนำสายชินวัตร  กปปส.ที่มารายงานตัววันนี้ทั้งหมด ยังไม่รู้สถานที่

              Jonathan Head          @*pakhead*  Follow 
       Prayuth playing hardball with the  Shinawatras. Homes in Chiang Mai searched. Yingluck et al locked up.  Maybe to pressure Thaksin to give in.

Looks like Yingluck and her circle hv now been separated and taken to different military camps around the country.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> 6 minutes maximum


Was it enough - or has she started twitching again?  :Smile:

----------


## Jofrey

> The army is utterly corrupt and has just as many "mafia" style individuals in it as the police here....No one gets to the top, in the police or the army, without having been involved in some dubious practices.







> More o' the same.



List of coups d'état and coup attempts by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

----------


## robuzo

Pesek makes some excellent points here (not the same as the Pesek article posted in a separate thread on markets, btw):
Why This Thai Coup Matters More - Bloomberg View
Thaksin Shinawatra is living proof that leaders get the popularity thing all wrong. From Barack Obama to Indonesia's Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, they try governing well, articulating a vision and inspiring -- and their approval ratings plummet.

Thailands Thaksin tried a different approach. From 2001 to 2006, the tycoon broke laws, lined his pockets, neutered courts and was even accused of crimes against humanity in a war against drugs, then fled overseas in 2008 to avoid prison. Yet nearly eight years after being ousted as prime minister, he couldnt be more popular among his "Red Shirt" supporters from the country's poorer northeast. And that's what makes this latest Thai coup arguably more dangerous than 12 earlier military takeovers in the past eight decades.

Never mind that no one outside the army chiefs who grabbed power Thursday can explain why a coup was even necessary. In 2008, the Red Shirts who rallied around Thaksin were a ragtag bunch. Today, theyre organized, politically aware, better financed and raring for a fight. Theyve spent recent years building political networks and mobilizing supporters -- efforts that put a Thaksin avatar in the prime ministers office in 2011, his sister Yingluck Shinawatra (she was ousted on May 7 by the courts, and today was summoned to meet with coup leaders).

Even though several Red Shirt leaders have been rounded up and arrested, their political machine is already churning into action. As Thitinan Pongsudhirak of Bangkoks Chulalongkorn University told Bloomberg News: The opposition and resistance to the coup will likely be strong. This time the looming confrontation and clashes are going to be severe and violent.

Why does Thaksin still inspire such loyalty after all this time? My take is that rural Thais have a surreally romanticized view of his populist Thaksinomics program. Thaksin effectively bribed communities around the nation with waves of public largess -- cash, subsidies, moratoriums on debt payments and other goodies. Who doesnt love a leader who comes to town tossing treats around? But the money just provided a sugar high and did little to create balanced and sustainable growth -- which is what Thaksin's followers really need. The handouts were a giant smokescreen to distract supporters while Thaksin weakened governing institutions in Bangkok to enrich himself and his cronies.

To me, the best explanation of what the former premier was up to is found in Whats the Matter With Kansas?, which historian Thomas Frank published in 2004 at the height of the Thaksin era. The book explores how conservative leaders in the U.S. and elsewhere trick lower-middle class citizens to vote against their economic interests. Sure, Thaksins cash handouts seemed like a godsend. But by making Thailand his own, he singlehandedly wrecked the nations democracy, competitiveness and global reputation.

*If Thailand had an effective political opposition, one would think they'd be able to expose the hollowness of Thaksin's programs in an election.* [*_Emboldening mine- rob; might be interesting to hear thoughts on why the Democrats are unable- or unwilling, imo- to do so_] Instead, by intervening yet again, the Thai military is perceived to be doing the bidding of the Bangkok elite, the royalist "Yellow Shirts." Rather than puncturing Thaksin's aura, the generals have simply burnished it further. If they now throw his sister into jail, she'll become yet another martyr for the Red Shirts.

With no exit strategy visible for the generals, this coup could easily prove to be an unmitigated disaster, even a prelude to full-blown civil war. The odds of a credible election that heals Thailands wounds over the next few years are in the single digits right now. Yet there is no other means of establishing a stable government that both the international community and the Red Shirts will accept. The 0.6 percent drop in gross domestic product in the three months through March is only the beginning of economic fallout to come.

Asian markets are largely ignoring this weeks events in Bangkok, figuring weve seen this before. Theyre being complacent. Thursdays coup demonstrates a debilitating level of political dysfunction thats gradually pulling Thailand in the direction of Egypt and Tunisia, not South Korea. Rather than end Thailands political nightmare, this coup could drive the country toward whole new levels of chaos.

To contact the writer of this article: William Pesek at wpesek@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this article: Nisid Hajari at nhajari@bloomberg.net

----------


## KimDidMeGood

> They'll wet themselves with blood if shooting starts.
> 
> Vague threats of tablet computers, smart phones  and a 'like' campaign on Facebook from some Uni's flabby little angry birds are not going to derail a well-tooled army.


The big point in case is that there was no shooting. It seems to have been lost on you.

I'm pretty sure those folks know they are potentially endangering their life and risk being arrested but they protest anyway. I expect there to be much more of them hitting the streets in the days to come, especially as the week-end is coming.

This refusal to meekly submit to an illegitimate junta's authority is actually fantastic. It's a much, much more effective weapon than guns to undermine the effort of the generals to gain an authority that they have no legitimacy to exercise. And note that until now, the power takeover has not got any form of blessing from the palace.

It seems to me that Prayuth's position is not as strong as some make it to be.

----------


## Dandyhole

> This is most revealing...and rather worrying....
> 
> Insider's report on coup decision | Bangkok Post: Most recent
> 
> Insider's report on coup decision
> 
> Published: 23 May 2014 at 17.37
> Online news:
> 
> ...


Good to see the legitimate democratically minded stand their ground in their representation of the people.

Let's see if the general sees fit to grant himself immunity from prosecution in his new constitution.

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> The idea of Thailand being under control of an organized, determined person who believes in "service" (a very old concept!) is quite attractive, although of course politically abhorent (LOL).
> 
> 
> I would be inclined to agree provided he belives in "Service before Self" (an older and more dignified concept).


Disagree, with such attributes he could have put himself up in an election , but without the guns he is a nothing.

----------


## StrontiumDog

> Pesek makes some excellent points here (not the same as the Pesek article posted in a separate thread on markets, btw):
> Why This Thai Coup Matters More - Bloomberg View
>   Rather than end Thailands political nightmare, this coup could drive the country toward whole new levels of chaos.


Yeah, great article, thanks. He pretty much nailed it.

----------


## Phuketrichard

this must be the fastest thread to reach 25 pages in the history of TD

TO the Army;
Job well done.
Now , what your next move?

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> The idea of Thailand being under control of an organized, determined person who believes in "service" (a very old concept!) is quite attractive, although of course politically abhorent (LOL).
> 
> 
> I would be inclined to agree provided he belives in "Service before Self" (an older and more dignified concept).





> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> 
>  
> I've always said Thailand would benefit from a benign dictator rather than it's utterly bogus and perverted democracy. 
> 
> 
> 
> So where have you been, Gent?
> It's been like this quite some time now - regardless of the periods of false "democratic" presence.


Indeed

----------


## Jofrey

> fastest thread to reach 25 pages in the history of TD


naah.....the last coup thread was better.

----------


## Dandyhole

> Farmers will be paid in 15 to 20 days, bet no one seen that coming. made me laugh out loud, wonder what populist policies prayuth and co have up there sleeves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by taxexile
> ...


Well the senate and courts won't like him overriding their previous decisions

----------


## taxexile

> might be interesting to hear thoughts on why the Democrats are unable- or unwilling, imo- to do so


it can only be complacency, and deluding themselves into feeling somehow protected.

thats an interesting read, but i tend to think he exaggerates the risk of civil war.

the general will surely have taken all those points into account whilst planning this coup and the subsequent reforms and have some plan for placating and "re-educating the natives" in order to gradually bring them on-side.

----------


## Jofrey

> the general will surely have taken all those points into account whilst planning this coup and the subsequent reforms and have some plan for placating and "re-educating the natives" in order to gradually bring them on-side.


life is pain

----------


## robuzo

> might be interesting to hear thoughts on why the Democrats are unable- or unwilling, imo- to do so
> 			
> 		
> 
> it can only be complacency, and deluding themselves into feeling somehow protected.


Yes and yes, to which I would add, I think they just can't bear the thought of pandering to the hired help. I don't think Isaaners on the whole believe that Thaksin really cares about improving their position, but at least he is willing to give the brown people a reacharound. The yellows would still rather beat the serf than throw him a bone.[/QUOTE]




> thats an interesting read, but i tend to think he exaggerates the risk of civil war.


 Maybe. Civil war depends on defection from the army- enough of that and the MIB and border cops join in. Thais don't strike me as generally willing to lay down their lives for principles and ideas, and at this point the fight would be too uneven. Of course, that's using a definition of "civil war" denoting battlefield conflict. If certain cities in the N-NE were to decide to reject orders from Bangkok things could develop differently, but again, that would mean at the least economic sacrifice on the part of the, ahem, civic leaders.




> the general will surely have taken all those points into account whilst planning this coup and the subsequent reforms and have some plan for placating and "re-educating the natives" in order to gradually bring them on-side.


If by "placating and re-educating the natives" you mean terrorizing and beating into submission anyone who doesn't go along with Ocha-chan's aims then yes, I'm sure there is a plan and it isn't going to be subtle.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> 
> They'll wet themselves with blood if shooting starts.
> 
> Vague threats of tablet computers, smart phones  and a 'like' campaign on Facebook from some Uni's flabby little angry birds are not going to derail a well-tooled army.
> 
> 
> The big point in case is that there was no shooting. It seems to have been lost on you.
> ...


Ah and what has been lost on you was that there was no shooting.

That's because being assaulted by a youth with a ipad camera looking for brave selfies for his social network doesn't merit a lethal response. 

It just makes the army look reasonable.

If they want to link arms and march towards the line.
If they stand in front of a tank and defy it to change direction.

Then that takes balls.

Yes, Tiananmen-style resistance where you risk sacrificing yourself for your beliefs. Not risk-free, pouff-style 'Facebook' selfie  resistance.

----------


## Jofrey

> Tiananmen-style resistance where you risk sacrificing yourself for your beliefs.


Who among you are willing to leave the Leo and fight for your freedom? 

 :Smile:

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by KimDidMeGood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> ...


Anti-coup demonstrators need a crack suicide squad, that what you're saying? Obviously Tiananmen worked out really well for the demonstrators in China. As much as you'd obviously enjoy seeing "Unis" or whatever the fuck you called them get shot it wouldn't make a lot of sense as a tactic. This is a military that is fine with gunning down nurses in temples, so you might just get lucky and have your bloodlust at least partly sated soon enough.

----------


## taxexile

> If by "placating and re-educating the natives" you mean terrorizing and beating into submission anyone who doesn't go along with Ocha-chan's aims then yes, I'm sure there is a plan and it isn't going to be subtle.


ive no doubt that small scale street demos, student type stuff, will be put down, but with boots rather than bullets. heavy duty armed dissidents will not be treated so lightly though.

as for the masses, i would think bones will be thrown before blows, could well be meaty bones at that.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Tax, journalists are only as good as the message they preach. The melodrama of impending civil war, carnage on the streets and a civil war between good and evil all makes for rather better copy. Exaggeration is the means, drama is the aim. 

So, who do you think has a better grip on what may happen: the chattering classes or some hoary old general who knows where the skeletons are? 

He's decapitated the rabble groups and working on eradicating Thaksin and his henchmen's legacy. I should imagine Chalerm will change sides and belly up quicker than Newin does his underpants. The dirt that old twister is going to dish out to save his miserable hide will seal quite a few fates I should imagine.

Poor old Yingluck. " Look, I never wanted to be Prime Minister, he made me do it(sob)..."

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> Tiananmen-style resistance where you risk sacrificing yourself for your beliefs.
> 
> 
> Who among you are willing to leave the Leo and fight for your freedom?


There are no Thais on here. 

Its their fight, and that's how it should be. 

 I daresay even the hardest core Thai anti-coup protestor would not agree with giving the Vote to lowly Farang.




> Anti-coup demonstrators need a crack suicide squad, that what you're saying?


No, i'm saying that if they want to make an impact or have a 'colour revolution' , they have to take chances. Do something that counters the coup rules.

People have a sense of fatigue for posed selfies that are staged for social media.

----------


## Pragmatic

> I daresay even the hardest core Thai anti-coup protestor would not agree with giving the Vote to lowly Farang.


Something you'll never know until it's offered.

----------


## Jofrey

> Its their fight, and that's how it should be.


It's not a fight. 

It's a show for those who like to sensationalise the mundane.

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> 
> Anti-coup demonstrators need a crack suicide squad, that what you're saying?
> 
> 
> No, i'm saying that if they want to make an impact or have a 'colour revolution' , they have to take chances. Do something that counters the coup rules.
> 
> People have a sense of fatigue for posed selfies that are staged for social media.


As futile gestures go the ones that don't involve kids, even pasty gormless Thai kids, being shot are probably better. "Do something that counters the coup rules"- if it stands a reasonable chance of making a difference, sure. 

I'll grant you, demonstrating a lack of seriousness (selfies and likes) probably has the opposite effect to that intended.

----------


## Dandyhole

Taksin lawyer informing of active consideration to formation of government.

Unclear on remainder

----------


## Seekingasylum

If that is right the General is rather more astute than folk gave him credit for. Having her as his poodle gopher would be a master stroke in disarming all that anti democracy bluster.

----------


## taxexile

^^

i think its about robert amsterdam, thaksin money grabbing lawyer and the idea of a government in exile.

----------


## Dandyhole

^Nice, a recognised government in exile declares Prayuth a criminal?

Saw the article before but thought twice about putting it up.

Wonder if any of the guests flew emirates

----------


## Seekingasylum

Aw shucks, still, it was a nice idea. Thaksin forming a government in exile might not seem a good idea to his Dubai hosts. He must be entering his dotage.
Indeed, the other article is interesting, certainly in the timing which raises several questions.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> ^Nice, a recognised government in exile declares Prayuth a criminal?


It won't get any international recognition. 

Thailand 2014 is not occupied Poland 1944. 

The Thai Head of State will give the provisional Governnment the  articles of ratification it needs, as always happens in these circumstances.




> I'll grant you, demonstrating a lack of seriousness (selfies and likes)  probably has the opposite effect to that intended.


And if someone comes to the ranks with their ipad and starts pratting about too much.

The soldier would just take the ipad and stamp on it. No need to even point his rifle. 

And you know, I think the reaction of the kid who's just lost his ipad would actually be to burst into tears. It's like tearing the head off a toddler's teddy bear - it's that cruel. 

Losing their ipad is a sacrifice too far. They'd be devastated.  And I don't mean that in any way to belittle them.

----------


## chassamui

Le Generale has been smart. Appease all those Isaan rice farmers quickly. 

Undermine the enemy.

----------


## philw

> might be interesting to hear thoughts on why the Democrats are unable- or unwilling, imo- to do so
> 			
> 		
> 
> it can only be complacency, and deluding themselves into feeling somehow protected.
> 
> thats an interesting read, but i tend to think he exaggerates the risk of civil war.
> 
> the general will surely have taken all those points into account whilst planning this coup and the subsequent reforms and have some plan for placating and "re-educating the natives" in order to gradually bring them on-side.



Sadly there is no historical evidence of that.

After many years here, all i can see is they ( the generals ) shoot from the hip and there is little, if any,  plan about how to cope with the aftermath of their generally calamitous decisions.

( Too many generals in that sentence, sorry )

----------


## Chittychangchang

A distant relative's friend's boss and employee's all red shirt's are in an underground organisation and are planning direct action, although this could all be here say.
What Thailand really need's is the main man to recognise a democracy and elected goverment.

----------


## Troy

> The Thai Head of State will give the provisional Governnment the articles of ratification it needs, as always happens in these circumstances.


Has the Thai Head of State given his blessing to the coup yet?

I thought Prayuth was summoned today...any news?

----------


## Dandyhole

^ Junta spokesman statement,  that Prayuth does not intend to visit palace , despatching documents for signature instead.

----------


## tomta

> Has the Thai Head of State given his blessing to the coup yet?  I thought Prayuth was summoned today...any news?


Prayuth has sent a letter, apparently.

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by Troy
> 
>  Has the Thai Head of State given his blessing to the coup yet?  I thought Prayuth was summoned today...any news?
> 
> 
> Prayuth has sent a letter, apparently.


An email would have been quicker, just sayin'.

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by tomta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Troy
> ...


He tried, but his internet wasn't working for some reason.  :mid:

----------


## Mr Lick

A Thai soldier stands guard while Buddhist monks beg for alms outside a temple near Government House in Bangkok. On Thursday the military suspended the constitution, banned gatherings and detained politicians, saying order was needed after months of turmoil. 









Former Deputy Prime Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul arrives at ArmyClub after being summoned by the army in Bangkok May 23, 2014.

----------


## Mr Lick

*Thailand: waiting for democracy*

The broad story of Thai politics over the years has been one in which the country's establishment has used the political system to play out their own quarrels and rivalries


Thais have been waiting for democracy since 1932, when the absolute monarchy was overthrown. They are still waiting. The imposition ofmilitary rule is only the latest in a series of rude interruptions of civilian government by the army, which has staged 18 coups since then, 11 of them successful. Civilian rule itself has been no democratic idyll, with some administrations managed from behind the scenes by the military, others chaotic coalitions, others still torn by clashes between wilful leaders of micro parties.

The broad story of Thai politics over the years has been one in which the country's establishment – the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the royal court, the army, and the Bangkok middle class – has used the political system, including its default mechanism of the military coup, to play out their own quarrels and rivalries. This changed when Thaksin Shinawatra, a former policeman who had become a highly successful businessman, arrived on the political scene. He abandoned the Bangkok merry-go-round, instead challenging it by seeking and winning votes among the poorer classes, particularly in the north of the country, as well as among residents of the capital originally from the outer provinces.

These were people whose attitude to those who had previously sought their support was summed up in the description of a politician as a baby bird. Each vote they gave him was like a feather; when he had enough feathers, he flew away, and they never saw him again. Thaksin wasdifferent. He delivered, changing lives with healthcare schemes, loan assistance and development funds. They voted for him gratefully and consistently, and when he went into exile, they voted for associates he nominated. When these were pushed out by various dirty tricks, they voted for his sister, recently also ousted on a legal technicality.

There was much that was problematic about Thaksin and his family, but the fundamental fact was that the old establishment could not cope with the reversal of fortune which had taken place. They tried to change the verdict of the polls on the streets, paralysing the business of government by the threat of violence and provoking an answering violence from Thaksin supporters.

There were no politicians with the seniority and moderation to mediate. That left the less than impartial army, whose sympathies lie with the establishment and which had intervened against Thaksin before, in 2006. It now has not much time to demonstrate its credentials as a referee. Thai coups in the past have usually been accepted with a shrug and a smile, but Thaksin's supporters have signalled repeatedly that they will not take a coup lying down. There could be dangerous days ahead


http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-for-democracy

----------


## Mr Lick

*Thailand militarisation is symptom of accelerating global system failure*

Crippling fossil fuel dependency, climate volatility, rocketing debt levels are propelling protests, radicalising the state

Thai police commando stand guard outside the Army Club before Thai former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra arrives to report to Thailand's ruling military in Bangkok, Thailand, Friday, May 23, 2014.Military coups in Thailand are nothing new. But the latest seizure of power by army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha underscores the risks to democracy when governments consistently fail to deal adequately with the complex convergence of systemic crises.Although Chan-ocha has said he is merely seeking to "restore order" in reaction to escalating protests that have seen the deaths of 28 and injury of 700, informed observers point out that the declaration of martial law appears to have been calculated to benefit the coup instigators.

Whatever the case, the opportunity to impose authoritarian rule has emerged in the context of escalating political instability. But few recognise that the driving force of this instability is not simply 'political infighting', but the inexorable intersection of global trends that affect us all.

Three years ago, a prescient editorial in Thailand's English language daily, The Nation, noted that global economic growth was indelibly tied to the abundant availability of cheap oil. Pointing out the links between domestic oil scarcity in countries like Egypt beset with surging social upheaval, the editorial diagnosed the problem as follows:
"The recent sharp rise in food prices has triggered riots in Egypt and other less-developed countries. Higher energyprices have also added on to the inflationary pressure. The poor are the most vulnerable sector to fluctuations in food and energy prices. Governments thus have to come up with subsidy measures for food and energy."What does this imply for Thailand? The editorial continued:
"The Thai inflation rate is very sensitive to higher oil prices, which will drive up local transport and production costs. As a heavy importer of energy, the rising oil price could derail the Thai economy and drain our reserves if we're not careful."Indeed, Thailand is a net energy importer. As Southeast Asia's second-largest consumer of energy, with total domestic consumption at 108.7 million tonnes of oil equivalent (TOE), the slow demise of cheap energy sources exacerbated by rising demand from India and China has posed a growing challenge.

Thailand's Ministry of Energy has not been entirely asleep at the wheel. In 2003, a government report acknowledged that the country's "high dependency on imported energy will make Thailand at risk of energy supply disruption and volatility of energy prices, apart from a substantial foreign currency loss for the imports of energy." The report urged the government to embark on a strategy to diversify energy supply sources and ramp up domestic renewable energy investment.

But the pace of transition has been too slow, with "little change to the status quo" - and so far the poor, especially rural farmers who have played an increasing role in recent protests, have been most affected.
We need to call a spade a spade: Thailand's deteriorating economy is driven significantly by its fossil fuel dependence. In 2013, theInternational Energy Agency (IEA) warned that Thailand's economy was especially vulnerable to external shocks, disruptions to its energy supplies and oil price escalation. High international oil prices would push up the Consumer Price Index (CPI).

It's happening now. Thailand's Ministry of Commerce stated that the CPI had risen by 2.11% in March due to "increases in food and energy prices" rising further to 2.45% in April. The prices underpinning inflationin particular affected "rice, pork, cooking gas and vegetable oil."

Welcome to the future. The IEA also projected that Thai energy consumption in Thailand will rise by 75% over the next two decades, corresponding to a dramatic increase in its oil import bill, which could climb to $70bn - three times the current level.

Also to blame for current inflation are "higher electricity rates and a weaker baht", along with "droughts in some areas" that could result in "shortages of agricultural products."

Erratic climate impacts on Thailand are already playing havoc with the economy. Between 1981 and 2007, annual mean temperature in Thailand rose by 1C. Over the last 50 years, the frequency and levels of precipitation have decreased, even while scientists expect that this will accompany an increase in intensity of extreme weather, storm surges and floods.

This is undermining Thailand's position as one of the world's largest rice exporters. Over 40% of Thai citizens depend on agriculture for their livelihood. Widespread floods in October 2010 affecting almost three million people led to a loss in rice production of about 0.7 million tonnes. Droughts in the same years sunk water levels to 15% of their total capacity, also debilitating rice production.

Devastation caused by flooding in 2011 led to a halt in planned government expenditures, slashing domestic consumption which accounts for about half of economic output. The flooding also destroyed14% of rice paddies. This increased economic pressure on government to remunerate affected farmers and back an unsustainable 'rice mortgage scheme' guaranteeing higher-than-market prices to export rice. The result of that, coupled with competition with other major rice exporters, has been a decline in rice exports and a drop in government revenues.

As the rice programme has benefited mostly rich farmers while miring the government in increasing debt, impoverished farmers excluded from the dividends have increasingly seen little choice but to take to the streets.

Faced with these burgeoning economic challenges, struggling farmers, as well as low wage workers, have also ended up mired in debt. Since the 2008 financial crisis, there has been an explosion of private borrowing, such that Thailand's ratio of household debt to GDP has increased from 55 per cent to 80 per cent since 2009. As rampant debt, fuelled by rising living costs (underpinned in turn by energy inflation), has stoked political grievances and economic uncertainty, unemploymentis pitched to rise to 600,000 - the highest in a decade.

Recent research has shown that high-debt countries suffer from lower economic growth. In particular large levels of household debt drag growth down.

Such accelerating debt is widening Thai inequality. The top 10 per cent of landowners in Thailand own 61 per cent of total title land. The income share of the most affluent 20% of the population is about 54% compared to only 5% among the poorest 20%.

Since the 2006 coup, economic gains made by the previous Thaksin administration's rejection of failed IMF reforms have been reversed.

Top this off with the interlinked challenges of Thailand's domestic energy scarcity and intensifying climate woes, and we have all the makings of a perfect storm of systemic crises. Any government operating within the framework of conventional 'neoliberal austerity' wisdom - let alone one beleaguered with corruption - would have difficulties managing this scenario.

Operating within the conventional framework which sees each problem as separate, and reacts belatedly to political disturbances on the shallow surface of current affairs, we can't see the forest for the trees. Thailand's crisis is about more than internal corruption, political repression and economic mismanagement - though all three of course feature in large degree. This is about the unravelling of a global paradigm of fossil fuel dependency and endless growth for its own sake.

Thailand's latest authoritarian turn is a warning to us all. Until we are ready to work together to address the structural and systemic context of such interconnected crises, we risk rendering the reactionary resort to state-militarisation an inevitable 'final solution' to keep the lid on a newage of unrest


http://www.theguardian.com/environme...ayuth-chan-och

----------


## Yasojack

Here's a scenario that i'm sure the majority of Thais would be more than happy with, i'm very cynical about my own theory but hey lets give it a go.

I am sure even the establishment realize something has to change in Thailand, considering whats been happening around the world in certain countries.

Right lets say Prayuth has been giving the task of cleaning the country up ::spin:: .

Just what are the chances of success, the Amnart over the last few years have awoken the Reds, from what i have heard from up country from certain persons, theres a certain element willing to fight to the end for the suppression that has been handed down over the generations.

Surely the establishment understand that the passing away of the ..... is going to have a huge effect on the country,though will they have the foresight to consider the consequences.

The holding of certain persons presently could well have adverse effect on the security of the country.

If the country wish to become one again shouldn't Prayuth be presently be considering with his advisors, the establishment of a new charter that makes all govt deals transparent and be accountable to a commitee that has no involvement in Thai politics, or am i just living in cuckoo land.

The way i see it now something really has to change or we will see, Thailand turning into another Ukraine Egypt etc.

----------


## Exit Strategy

*ANU No Coup*
BY ANONYMOUS  24 MAY 2014

In this sad and depressing moment for Thailand, a group of students, faculty and alumni of the Australian National University has written an open letter condemning the latest military coup. The letter also comes with a set of satirical pictures against the military order for Thai people to remain calm and lead a normal life. Below is the content of the letter, and the pictures.

-

Open Letter in Condemnation of the Coup Launched by the National Order Maintenance Council on 22 May 2014

On 22 May 2014, a group of persons who call themselves the National Order Maintenance Council (NOMC) fomented a coup and seized power from the caretaker government. They cited the need to prevent violence arising from political conflict as the primary reasons for their actions. *We condemn this action for the following significant reasons:

1. A coup is a reduction of rights and liberties. A coup is a devaluation of the intelligence, dignity, and the political learning process of citizens in a democracy.

2. A coup is a destruction of the credibility and prestige honor of the nation in the eyes of the people of the world.

3. A coup will not help solve the problem of political conflict, which has extended for more than a decade, but it will instead lead Thai society into further violence.

It is our belief that the democratic process is the only path that will help Thai society peacefully overcome conflict.* The military should awaken to their correct role in a democratic regime.

Therefore, we call on the National Order Maintenance Council to return the power to the people immediately. This will enable Thailand to return to a process of democratization, in which the sovereignty belongs to the people.

_Students, Faculty, and Alumni of the Australian National University against the coup_

----------


## Rural Surin

> Here's a scenario that i'm sure the majority of Thais would be more than happy with, i'm very cynical about my own theory but hey lets give it a go.
> 
> I am sure even the establishment realize something has to change in Thailand, considering whats been happening around the world in certain countries.
> 
> Right lets say Prayuth has been giving the task of cleaning the country up.
> 
> Just what are the chances of success, the Amnart over the last few years have awoken the Reds, from what i have heard from up country from certain persons, theres a certain element willing to fight to the end for the suppression that has been handed down over the generations.
> 
> Surely the establishment understand that the passing away of the ..... is going to have a huge effect on the country,though will they have the foresight to consider the consequences.
> ...


Fair analogy, Jacky...

Their might be a spark attempting to light the fire.

----------


## Waid

> He then stood up and spoke in a loud voice: "I'm sorry. I have to seize the ruling power."
> 
> It was 4.32pm.


His execution for high treason, post settlement, should be set for this time. Publically televised. Would be the last one in Thailand.

----------


## Yasojack

In a way i see the coup to be a possible positive, the ass hole people at the meeting when he seized the power weren't in anyway going to come to any sort of a deal.

Thailand is in a mess, and i  hope that someone amongst the establishment has said, if we not chnge now guys theres a chance we either end up dead or lose the lot, lets admit the fact the ruling elite parties don't give a fek about joe blow on the farm street etc, and these very people are the people who will turn on them eventually.

----------


## Merrimack

Channel News Asia live (may not always cover Thailand)

Live TV - Channel NewsAsia


Al Jazeera (Just for general news but top of the hour some Thai coverage)

http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/

----------


## Merrimack

I notice Twitter has a pop-up right away to sign in when I look at twitter pages. This wasn't the case yesterday.

----------


## wasabi

Thank You Exit Strategy.

----------


## thailazer

The "Opinion" piece on Aljazeera's website yesterday sure implies Thailand's troubles are far from over.    Worth looking up if you haven't read it.

----------


## Merrimack

At least 5 activists arrested at the anti-coup gathering
At least 5 activists arrested at the anti-coup gathering | Prachatai English
                                                              Fri, 23/05/2014 - 19:52 | by *prachatai* 













   At  least five activists protesting the coup at the Bangkok Art and Cultural  Center were arrested around 7.30 pm on Friday, after a confrontation  between the protesters and soldiers. One of the activists arrested was  Thanapol Eiwsakul, co-editor of Fah Diew Kan magazine, which is known  for its critical articles about Thailand's establishment.

----------


## Merrimack

People protesting outside military location 5:30pm yesterday..

----------


## Dandyhole

Robert Amsterdams statement regards government in exile is quite interesting.

At Robert Amsterdam.com

----------


## Merrimack



----------


## Merrimack

Twitter folks think there's a reason why a letter was sent to the big man by Gen Prayuth rather than an actual meeting. One of them doesn't want to meet. Well, I guess you gotta keep yourself looking good and it doesn't look all that clear how this will turn out so no one wants to make a mistake an pick a loser. Looking out for #1

----------


## Merrimack

Responsibilites of the Gens in Thai. Maybe a TD Thai expert can explain this.

----------


## Merrimack

*Thai reporter fired for taking picture defying the coup* 
Thai reporter fired for taking picture defying the coup | Prachatai English

                                                              Fri, 23/05/2014 - 21:47 | by *prachatai* 


  After a picture of a Thai female reporter standing next to a line  of soldiers with an X taped over her lips was circulated on the  Internet, the reporter was fired by the media company for which she  works.

 The photo was taken on May 22, shortly after the coup detat was  announced. Some have called it the first act of defiance against the  military junta.



 Pornthip Mongyai with X mark on her lips in front of the line of soldiers 

 Mono Group, which runs Channel 29 digital TV, on Friday published a  letter to the Thai Journalists Association (TJA) stating that Pornthip  is no longer an employee and that the company did not approve of her  action.

 Pornthip released her own statement saying that she did not intend  to defy the martial law, nor to send any political message as was  interpreted by social media users, adding that the action was purely  personal.

----------


## Merrimack

*Soldiers Raid Home of Celebrity Cat 'Johny
Soldiers Raid Home of Celebrity Cat 'Johny?

 


*  RANONG  The military has  raided the home of a man whose satirical Facebook photos of his cat  wearing different costumes have become an internet phenomenon. 
Kriangkrai Suetrongs  cat Johny is widely known among Thais for dressing up to parody famous  scandals or controversies in Thailand.

Military personnel raided Mr.  Kriangkria's home in Ranong province yesterday after he posted photo of  Johny wearing a military costume with fake military weapons, mocking the  declaration of martial law on Tuesday that escalated into a full-blown  coup on Thursday.

Mr Kriangkrai said that when he asked the  soldiers to present a search warrant, they told him that no document  was needed because Ranong province was under martial law, which gives  them the power to search residences and detain individuals without  warrants.

Mr. Kriangkai said the soldiers searched  every nook and cranny of his home for "illegal materials." When nothing  suspicious was found, the soldiers asked him to sign a document  confirming that the search had taken place, Mr. Kriangkai said.
"Personally, I don't agree with martial  law, said Mr. Kriangkai. It has been in place in Ranong for eight  years now, however the military has not exercised their power in full  until now."

Martial law was declared in Ranong and  other "Deep South" provinces in 2006 due to attacks by Islamist  separatists on security forces and civilians.
Pol.Maj.Gen. Yutthana Thongpan, a police  commander at Mueang Ranong Police Station, said that the military and  police search of Mr. Kriangkai's residence was not an effort to  intimidate him.

According to Pol.Maj.Gen. Yutthana,  security forces are currently conducting sweeping searches across the  area to look for illegal weapon caches.

"Mr. Kriangkai's house was merely one on  the list," Pol.Maj.Gen. Yutthana said, adding that no property was  damaged during the search.

"[Mr. Kriangkai] fully cooperated with the officers," Pol.Maj.Gen. Yutthana said.
Mr. Kriangkais Facebook account "Johnny the Supphalak Cat" currently has over 100,000 "likes."

Johny has appeared in television shows,  magazines, and has been named one of the 12 most famous cats in the  world by a number of media outlets.

When a monk was exposed to own millions  of baht and luxury items in 2013, Johny appeared on his Facebook account  wearing towel that resembled monk's robe with Louis Vuitton bag at his  side.

----------


## pseudolus

> Robert Amsterdams statement regards government in exile is quite interesting.


Ludicrous to even suggest a "government in excile" although the western money men will surely think this is a good idea. What their statement completely ignore is the Thai Military's own mandate which is to protect Thailand from threats outside and within. Rightly or wrongly, they perceive the corrupt murderous Thaksin regime and its extended tentacles which is all about creating profit for them, lovely debt for the country and Thai people enslaving them further, to be an internal threat which again they are attempting to deal with. 

Alas, because the military has their own sponsors who want to ensure they stay at the trough rather than the western shill, nothing will change. They have no stomach for real change which might be positive for the country because this is not what they want, and they do not count the average Somchai in the street as being Thailand, but more a foot soldier to slave or die for Thailand (meaning, the Elite). 

Anyway -anyone know when the TV will come back on again?

----------


## koman

> The military has  raided the home of a man whose satirical Facebook photos of his cat  wearing different costumes


Damned right.  What could be more of a threat to peace and security than a cat dressed up as a politician or a general....... :Smile:

----------


## Thormaturge

^

Easy.  A Thai dressed up as a politician or a general.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by pseudolus
> 
> The military has  raided the home of a man whose satirical Facebook photos of his cat  wearing different costumes
> 
> 
> Damned right.  What could be more of a threat to peace and security than a cat dressed up as a politician or a general.......


Quite.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Ludicrous to even suggest a "government in excile" although the western money men will surely think this is a good idea. What their statement completely ignore is the Thai Military's own mandate which is to protect Thailand from threats outside and within. Rightly or wrongly, they perceive the corrupt murderous Thaksin regime and its extended tentacles which is all about creating profit for them, lovely debt for the country and Thai people enslaving them further, to be an internal threat which again they are attempting to deal with. 
> 
> Alas, because the military has their own sponsors who want to ensure they stay at the trough rather than the western shill, nothing will change. They have no stomach for real change which might be positive for the country because this is not what they want, and they do not count the average Somchai in the street as being Thailand, but more a foot soldier to slave or die for Thailand (meaning, the Elite).


Good points, between the lines, but interesting point is

"Mr Amsterdam also stated that a number of foreign governments have already expressed their willingness to host such a government in exile under internationally established rules and practice" 

I was thinking it was Chiang Mai. Yingluck!

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by koman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pseudolus
> ...


Yep....troublemakers.
Need to fall in line good citizens.

----------


## pseudolus

> foreign governments


I didn't realise I left anything "between the lines" lol  

Foreign governments? I would think that the US is where this will happen eventually,or one of the countries that they dominate.

----------


## nidhogg

> *Thai reporter fired for taking picture defying the coup* 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Purely personal?    Not while she is wearing that green armband it is not.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Originally Posted by Exit Strategy
> 
> foreign governments
> 
> 
> I didn't realise I left anything "between the lines" lol  
> 
> Foreign governments? I would think that the US is where this will happen eventually,or one of the countries that they dominate.


US has already condemned this coup, strongest words politically possible (Department of State, May 22, 2014). Where's Russia?

----------


## nidhogg

> **


 :rofl:  Brilliant.

----------


## pseudolus

> US has already condemned this coup, strongest words politically possible (Department of State, May 22, 2014). Where's Russia?


Where is Russia? Well, as they have no dog in the race (i.e., one of the protagonists is not shill for their world hegemony), they are rightly keeping out of it.

----------


## Thormaturge

> Where's Russia?


At the Army Club establishing how many new tanks they require?

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Not while she is wearing that green armband it is not




That is Thai Journalists' Association (TJA) green armband. You have a problem with that?

----------


## Norton

Russia, China, Isreal and Sweden will do nothing related to sanctions. Military sales potential too high.
Expect US will apply some but not enough to prevent US defense companies providing systems to Thailand.

----------


## Exit Strategy

Although this will sting a bit

BBC News - US cuts military aid to Thailand after coup



"Washington also urged tourists to cancel trips and halted non-essential visits by US government officials.

The move came *as former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra spent her first night in military custody.*

She was detained along with dozens of political figures on Friday as the coup leaders tightened their grip on power"

No love.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Does that mean they lose their Fruit of the Loom camouflage underwear?...

----------


## xanax

Interesting article in the Daily Mail today which would not be able to link to about a very important Thai and his whereabouts for the past week.

----------


## BaitongBoy

“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves.” 
― Abraham Lincoln

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> Robert Amsterdams statement regards government in exile is quite interesting.
> 
> 
> Ludicrous to even suggest a "government in excile" although the western money men will surely think this is a good idea.


Western money men won't be remotely interested in a government in exile - one that has no access to the national coffers. 

They are not interested in the ethics of Thailand's domestic cock-up, and if they need to deal, will do so with the people who sign the cheques today.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> Not while she is wearing that green armband it is not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is Thai Journalists' Association (TJA) green armband. You have a problem with that?


Uhm. I have a problem with her making a political statement while wearing it.  Make the news or report the news.  Simples.

You have a problem with that?

----------


## BaitongBoy

^Hard to report with her mouth taped shut...

----------


## nidhogg

^ I am sure that like all journos, she is fully capable of talking out of her arse....

----------


## charleyboy

> Interesting article in the Daily Mail today which would not be able to link to about a very important Thai and his whereabouts for the past week.


No curfews in Hampshire, might be a few curlews!

----------


## FloridaBorn

> In a way i see the coup to be a possible positive, the ass hole people at the meeting when he seized the power weren't in anyway going to come to any sort of a deal.
> 
> Thailand is in a mess, and i  hope that someone amongst the establishment has said, if we not chnge now guys theres a chance we either end up dead or lose the lot, lets admit the fact the ruling elite parties don't give a fek about joe blow on the farm street etc, and these very people are the people who will turn on them eventually.


This with unmentionable caveats..

----------


## BaitongBoy

> I am sure that like all journos, she is fully capable of talking out of her arse....


I have it on good authority that that is tightly taped as well...

----------


## Zooheekock

A whole bunch of progressive academics (some of the Nitirat Group, Aj. Suda, Pavin, etc) now being told to report to the junta. Failure to do so gets you two years in jail. Burma here we come.

----------


## sabang

> ^^ yep. 75% of the Thai people in favour of the military stepping in, but apparently Betty, etc. knows better and will tell us what is right for them.


Wrong, just plain wrong. Curious to know- where did that propaganda originate?
Just hoping for order to be maintained now, but the damage done is inestimable.

----------


## Zooheekock

For those so inclined, there's a demo at Anusawaree BTS at 5pm tonight. I would guess that in Chiang Mai, people will meet at Chang Puak again.

----------


## pseudolus

> Western money men won't be remotely interested in a government in exile - one that has no access to the national coffers. 
> 
> They are not interested in the ethics of Thailand's domestic cock-up, and if they need to deal, will do so with the people who sign the cheques today.


Maybe you misunderstood "money men". They have every interest in a Thaksin run government, especially if they intend to push the country into civil war, so they can then parachute it back in. All moving in this direction. The next step by the well funded and armed reds will be to start shooting civilians and army, and wait until the army shoot back. At which point, the Kerry spin machine will start shouting "regime change....kill kill kill ... must bomb them into democracy"....enter Thaksin stage left with his exile government.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> A whole bunch of progressive academics (some of the Nitirat Group, Aj. Suda, Pavin, etc) now being told to report to the junta. Failure to do so gets you two years in jail. Burma here we come.


That is indeed ominous. It's one thing hauling in the protest leaders and some politicos, it's quite another rounding up the academia and general dissenters (like Sombat the former Mirror Art guy).

If they want to just warn them, as bad as that is, it's a Pinochet-Franco like move if they are detained

----------


## mustafa goze

Where's the morning after announcement you predicted, Sawyer?

----------


## Zooheekock

> ...it's quite another rounding up the academia and general dissenters (like Sombat the former Mirror Art guy).


He posted on Facebook earlier today that he'll be eating at McDonald's at Ratchaprasong tomorrow, if anyone would like to arrest him.

----------


## sabang

_"NOW it is COUP – stand by for a retaliation from the UDD," the group tweeted.

... "They've never had a coup like this, in which this potential of mass resistance is so strong," he said. "It's only imaginable that this coup will be incredibly repressive as a response."_
Coup needed for Thailand 'to love and be at peace again' - army chief | World news | The Guardian

Whither Thailand? Who knows- doesn't seem much chance of the far right wing folk behind this coup allowing a return to constitutional democracy anytime soon, they know they will only be swept away at the polls. Doesn't seem the majority on t'other side will take this lying down either. Very risky, if you're living close to the flame recommend you consider security, and contingencies, 'Just in case'- we really are in uncharted territory. There certainly is no resolution in sight, not even close.

----------


## BaitongBoy

“I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves ; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.” 
― Thomas Jefferson, Letters of Thomas Jefferson

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Interesting article in the Daily Mail today which would not be able to link to about a very important Thai and his whereabouts for the past week.


This links with my post here...
https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asi...ml#post2781929 (Former PM Yingluck May Be Detained For '3-7 Days')

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> _"NOW it is COUP – stand by for a retaliation from the UDD," the group tweeted.
> 
> ... "They've never had a coup like this, in which this potential of mass resistance is so strong," he said. "It's only imaginable that this coup will be incredibly repressive as a response."_
> Coup needed for Thailand 'to love and be at peace again' - army chief | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Whither Thailand? Who knows- doesn't seem much chance of the far right wing folk behind this coup allowing a return to constitutional democracy anytime soon, they know they will only be swept away at the polls. Doesn't seem the majority on t'other side will take this lying down either. Very risky, if you're living close to the flame recommend you consider security, and contingencies, 'Just in case'- we really are in uncharted territory. There certainly is no resolution in sight, not even close.


The resolution has happened.  This is now the status quo for the foreseeable future. There won't be any more red and yellow quarrels. 

Only two weeks ago you were calling the opposition to the government as 'puny' Several times in fact ! Yet today, Pheua Thai is history.

----------


## Merrimack

> Whither Thailand? Who knows- doesn't seem much chance of the far right wing folk behind this coup allowing a return to constitutional democracy anytime soon, they know they will only be swept away at the polls. Doesn't seem the majority on t'other side will take this lying down either. Very risky, if you're living close to the flame recommend you consider security, and contingencies, 'Just in case'- we really are in uncharted territory. There certainly is no resolution in sight, not even close.
> 			
> 		
> 
> calm down.


Don't give in to the yellow poop including those on this board but at the same time don't stress out too much over this. It ain't good for you health.

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by sabang
> 
> 
> _"NOW it is COUP  stand by for a retaliation from the UDD," the group tweeted.
> 
> ... "They've never had a coup like this, in which this potential of mass resistance is so strong," he said. "It's only imaginable that this coup will be incredibly repressive as a response."_
> Coup needed for Thailand 'to love and be at peace again' - army chief | World news | The Guardian
> 
> Whither Thailand? Who knows- doesn't seem much chance of the far right wing folk behind this coup allowing a return to constitutional democracy anytime soon, they know they will only be swept away at the polls. Doesn't seem the majority on t'other side will take this lying down either. Very risky, if you're living close to the flame recommend you consider security, and contingencies, 'Just in case'- we really are in uncharted territory. There certainly is no resolution in sight, not even close.
> ...


The military crushes or kills opposition. Your analysis is stupid.

----------


## Zooheekock

^^ Sabang is right. The possibility exists that things will go very, very pear-shaped. At the moment, it's impossible to say how great that possibility is  (it may be negligible, it may be significant) but everyone would be wise to at least consider what might happen in both the short- and long-term and how well placed they are to meet this.

----------


## Merrimack

Freedom of Speech Last Night - 



https://twitter.com/SuthareeW

----------


## Merrimack

Protesters on Ratchayothin right now. Refusing to move.


https://twitter.com/Rajprasong_News

----------


## sabang

> [I]
>  Yet today, Pheua Thai is history.


Do you honestly believe that? It is far from history (well, TRT/PPP/PT, whatever future manifestation). That is seriously naive, and if we are indeed looking down the throat of a Burmese style repression, well who knows what will ensue? Just hoping it can be avoided- much depends on the political deftness of the coup meisters imo.

----------


## Merrimack

More from StrotiumDog. Does that name sound familiar to some? :Smile: 
https://twitter.com/StrontiumDog1

Same rally Ratchayothin

----------


## Zooheekock

> much depends on the political deftness of the coup meisters imo.


If that is true, we all have a great deal to worry about.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by sabang
> ...


Yes and they will also muck up running the country.

But they were always on the side of the Suthep demonstrators - and failure to appreciate that is why the latter were by no means puny.

----------


## Troy

There seem to be more press than protester in those photos of the rally at Ratchayothin.

The dust needs to settle before deciding just how Burma-like this is going to end up but I can't see a situation like that lasting long.

Wife points out that this Coup hasn't used a Royal backdrop, which means it probably doesn't have approval and could end up going horribly wrong.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> ^^ Sabang is right. The possibility exists that things will go very, very pear-shaped. At the moment, it's impossible to say how great that possibility is  (it may be negligible, it may be significant) but everyone would be wise to at least consider what might happen in both the short- and long-term and how well placed they are to meet this.


I agree it's pragmatic to at least have some basic plan if you live near or in an area where there could be attacks. Temporary relocation etc. but for those in rural areas probably not much to worry about as long as you don't publicly advertise your political views

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> ...


What you mean Generals as thugs abusing the sons and daughters of Thailand for their own personal political goals. The are criminals. The numbers aren't with the yellow swine but the force and ease of abusing the military of the nation is. That's all. We'll see what happens as time progresses here. Most average Thais have been raised to avoid conflict even if it means they or their family members will suffer. That's a shame but it's the truth. My wife doesn't want to talk about this situation. Most people just want to get on with their lives without fear or stress. That's how this nation has been abused by the yellow abusers for the last century. It's not surprising if they get away with it again but my hopes are people resist and Thailand is shamed big time for its ignorance and abuse of its people. It deserves it and those named and unnameable folks deserve shame for what they have and haven't done for democracy and freedom in this nation.

----------


## Merrimack

Prayuth opts to hold reins | Bangkok Post: news

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> There seem to be more press than protester in those photos of the rally at Ratchayothin.
> 
> The dust needs to settle before deciding just how Burma-like this is going to end up but I can't see a situation like that lasting long.
> 
> Wife points out that this Coup hasn't used a Royal backdrop, which means it probably doesn't have approval and could end up going horribly wrong.


I think she makes a good point, but it's likely temporary name

----------


## Seekingasylum

> much depends on the political deftness of the coup meisters imo.
> 			
> 		
> 
> If that is true, we all have a great deal to worry about.


What on earth would we farang have to worry about? For that matter, what has the ordinary Thai chappie in the street have to concern him. Most normal folk just get on with making living. Those paid rabble, on either side, who ponced about for the past 6 months have made a reasonable bunce out of it. Music has stopped now, game over, and it's back to work or whatever it was they did when they weren't sitting under a tree or staring into space.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Merrimack
> ...


Yes, they are tough and ruthless and a threat to domestic, defenceless people only (Certainly not very good at combating anything external - except for unarmed boatpeople).

And will be grossly incompetant at running a nation, as they always are.

Let me be frank though (and someone else can be Betty), only two weeks ago the same PT supporters here who today are saying _'I told you so'_....didn't tell us so at all. Actually what they did tell us - in a series of flowery, self-indulgent speeches - was that their team were supreme, solid, and with no chance of being overthrown - and anyone who defied that got rebuked.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Yet today, Pheua Thai is history


But millions of people who voted for PT are still there. What do you want to do with them? There's that nasty Burma/Cambodia model. Which is not going to happen here. Who is getting stronger up country?

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Troy
> 
> 
> There seem to be more press than protester in those photos of the rally at Ratchayothin.
> 
> The dust needs to settle before deciding just how Burma-like this is going to end up but I can't see a situation like that lasting long.
> 
> Wife points out that this Coup hasn't used a Royal backdrop, which means it probably doesn't have approval and could end up going horribly wrong.
> 
> ...


Maybe the big man just doesn't know who is going to prevail in this one. He needs a winner or at least to protect his image a bit. The world is against this for the most part and so much more than the last one.

----------


## Merrimack

I wonder how the village fund will be affected by this. Our village pays back every October if I remember right. A lot of people suffered financially this year. That's going to be a problem I would think. Well, that's future news I guess. Just wanted to mention it. Back to the evil corrupt generals...

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Wife points out that this Coup hasn't used a Royal backdrop, which means it probably doesn't have approval and could end up going horribly wrong


Interesting point but it has already gone horribly wrong, for economy and international relations.

----------


## taxexile

> The world is against this for the most part and so much more than the last one.


what "the world" says for the benefit of the righteous press, and what they really think at government level are two very different things.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> Yet today, Pheua Thai is history
> 
> 
> But millions of people who voted for PT are still there. What do you want to do with them? There's that nasty Burma/Cambodia model. Which is not going to happen here. Who is getting stronger up country?


They'll just have to be patient and wait till they get their vote back. See who there is standing for election when that day come.

In the meantime they get on with making a living. If they want to challenge the dictatorship, they can do so - being mindful of the consequences if they put themselves on the line personally.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> There seem to be more press than protester in those photos of the rally at Ratchayothin.
> 
> The dust needs to settle before deciding just how Burma-like this is going to end up but I can't see a situation like that lasting long.
> 
> *Wife points out that this Coup hasn't used a Royal backdrop*, which means it probably doesn't have approval and could end up going horribly wrong.


There's an answer right here in your post.. Is there one available to be had? Or maybe there is but it is silently being withheld, for potentially obvious reasons.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> They'll just have to be patient


And if they are not? Why should they?




> In the meantime they get on with making a living.


True, at least that is possible here, and probably the best option now pending review.

----------


## Waid

Will this Coup be the great decider for Thailand's progression towards full Democracy?

----------


## Mr Lick

Former PM Yingluck Shinawatra, pictured above in a van, and a number of family members and politicians have been detained

----------


## taxexile

tom sawyer



> I agree it's pragmatic to at least have some basic plan if you live near or in an area where there could be attacks. Temporary relocation etc.


yes, its pants shitting time all right. the dangerous grannies are on the loose.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> They'll just have to be patient
> 
> 
> And if they are not? Why should they?


Charging the army lines with a sharpened banana, or a new ipad is a bad idea.

Some kind of anti-social behaviour campaign might make a disruptive and disorderly  impact. Not paying taxes, throwing faeces (preferably human) at farang tourists.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> what "the world" says for the benefit of the righteous press, and what they really think at government level are two very different things.


I think "the world" has been quite clear about this. US State Department is the most influential player here and they say US denounces Thai coup, warns on relations. *Canada Condemns Thai Military Coup*, Australia and UK condemn military coup. EU condemns military coup. 

Do please post some govt comments supporting the coup, want to see alternative view.

----------


## taxexile

> Do please post some govt comments supporting the coup,


one day wikileaks will post the intergovernmental dispatches.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Mr Lick, picture #7 on this page must have been taken in the spirit of Abbey Road...

----------


## pseudolus

> US denounces Thai coup, warns on relations.


They would, in the same way that a soccer manager complains when one of his players is suspended.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Charging the army lines with a sharpened banana


We can't go much further here, there would be the Event discussion. Appreciate your intelligent comments.

----------


## taxexile

> I think "the world" has been quite clear about this. US State Department is the most influential player here and they say US denounces Thai coup, warns on relations. Canada Condemns Thai Military Coup, Australia and UK condemn military coup. EU condemns military coup.


of more relevance, has any asean country denounced the coup. has china denounced the coup.

----------


## Seekingasylum

The understanding of realpolitik among the hysterical of the forum seems as tenuous as their grip upon all that heavy liberal baggage they dragged sweatily from whence they came is not.

Silly boys actually think diplomacy has something to do with truth.

Do they really think Uncle Sam is going to forsake a compliant and enthusiastic ally like the Thai because a gang of pseudo democrats were ousted from their state thievery?

All the others can go hang. I mean, honestly, who on earth would give a flying a toss about what the EU or Canucks had to say about anything very much.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Originally Posted by Exit Strategy
> 
> US denounces Thai coup, warns on relations.
> 
> 
> They would, in the same way that a soccer manager complains when one of his players is suspended.


You are just jealous because Russia does not have that much real power :Smile:  Have a good day.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by sabang
> ...


Militaries are traditionally designed and constructed and equipped for defence of their nation, not for herding the people into peculiar new and weird forms of 'democracy'. 

What's happened in the past couple of days gives the impression that the establishment intend to crush the Thaksin dynasty, which is the only way to restore the pre-Thaksin regime, and which cynics might say amounts to judicially enforced subservience by the masses. That's ok, as long as it's legal and democratic. 

As with the previous coup, this one is being marketed as a last ditch effort to restore order and save the country from its politicians, and only after immense patience and peaceful perseverance by the nice people in uniform. 


And even if those nice people in charge of the country do finally get around to detaining and fairly processing Suthep, to clueless farangs it must appear he has won hands down which means the loser is some 70% of 68m people. 


Meanwhile, according to a major foreign news service (not me, I wouldn't suggest such a thing even if it were true), someone important is on holiday in Britland. Well, they didn't actually say holiday, but in a Thai democracy it wouldn't be wise to repeat how they put it. Good enough for me to retract my intent on another coup thread, to start buying on the SET if it drops to 1350.

----------


## leemo

> Do please post some govt comments supporting the coup,
> 			
> 		
> 
> one day wikileaks will post the intergovernmental dispatches.


...after which its CEO won't be seeking asylum in LoS.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> has china denounced the coup


Good point.

----------


## xanax

> Meanwhile, according to a major foreign news service (not me, I wouldn't suggest such a thing even if it were true), someone important is on holiday in Britland. Well, they didn't actually say holiday, but in a Thai democracy it wouldn't be wise to repeat how they put it..



Rotherwick Hampshire seems an odd place for a 'holiday' for a Thai, maybe the meat balls are good there?

----------


## Yasojack

Thai army interview, we are neutral.

----------


## Merrimack

Good clip Yaso. The reporter also mentions wikileaks noting that Prayuth supported the overthrow of Thaksin.

Just see how many from each side are in captivity and where they are. If there isn't an equal number the army is full of shit. Also investigate the backgrounds of the soldiers who control this. How connected are they to the yellows and royals. Thailand's institutions including the military are not free of nepotism, cronyism and corrupt souls so why should anyone trust these coup leaders. The army should just have the election in two months and move the country forward. It's that simple.

----------


## Troy

> All the others can go hang. I mean, honestly, who on earth would give a flying a toss about what the EU or Canucks had to say about anything very much.


I think the Japanese opinion carries a lot of weight, more than the American one when it comes to the economy.

----------


## BaitongBoy

“You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.” 
― Winston Churchill, Blood, Sweat and Tears

----------


## Yasojack

Gen.Prayuth: Junta will not stay long
Saturday, 24 May 2014
By  NNT
 7  0  4  0


BANGKOK, 23 May 2014  - Head of the National Peace and Order Maintaining Council (NPOMC) Gen.Prayuth Chan-ocha informs foreign envoys that the council will not be in power for long and will help reform Thailand. 

Gen.Prayuth on Friday invited ambassadors and representatives of international organizations in Thailand to a meeting to explain the army's reasons to seize power from the government on 22 May. The army chief said a coup was necessary since there was no solution to the political conflicts and Thailand was unable to move forward. The army had decided to step in in an effort to administer the country and take care of pressing problems such as the rice pledging scheme.



The council performed government duties but did not intend to stay long, Gen.Prayuth reiterated.

Asked for how long the council would be in power, the NPOMC head said it depended on how long the conflicts would take before they were resolved. Gen.Prayuth confirmed international obligations would continue as normal and ensured security for foreigners in Thailand.

A reform council and the National Legislative Assembly would be set up simultaneously, the army chief said.


- See more at: Gen.Prayuth: Junta will not stay long - Pattaya Mail - Pattaya News, Communities, Opinions and much more...

----------


## Merrimack

Surreal as usual. I want to see a batch of Katoeys in swimsuits slathered all over a tank.



https://twitter.com/bkkbase

----------


## BaitongBoy

“Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech.” 
― Benjamin Franklin, Silence Dogood, The Busy-Body, and Early Writings

----------


## Exit Strategy

> think the Japanese opinion carries a lot of weight


*Japan government says Thai coup "extremely regrettable" | Bangkok Post: Most recent*
Writer: Kyodo News

The Japanese government on Friday expressed regret over the military coup in Thailand, vowing to ensure the safety of Japanese people and companies in the Southeast Asian country. 

"It is an extremely regrettable situation...We are strongly calling for the country's political situation to be resolved peacefully through sincere dialogue," Economy, Trade and Industry Minister Toshimitsu Motegi told a press conference.

Noting that Thailand is an important production base for Japanese-affiliated companies, Motegi said, "We will take appropriate measures for the safety of our people and Japanese companies."

Speaking to reporters, Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida voiced regret about the situation in Thailand and said Japan "strongly requests that a democratic political system be swiftly restored" in the country.

Returning from Thailand on Friday, Japanese tourists told Kyodo News the situation is relatively calm in the Thai capital Bangkok and said they did not feel in danger despite the sight of soldiers and tanks and delays in public transportation.

A 24-year-old company employee who arrived in the morning at Kansai International Airport in Osaka Prefecture after a four-day trip to Bangkok said she was surprised to "see tanks and armed soldiers around town" but was not alarmed.

"The people in Thailand were leading normal lives so I did not particularly feel I was in danger," she said.

Arriving at Narita airport near Tokyo, Masaya Kitagawa, a 24-year-old man from Mitaka, Tokyo, said that the trains were packed with people hurrying home after an overnight curfew was imposed.

Travel agencies said they are worried about the repercussions of the coup but, for now, will continue to arrange tour packages while heeding the Japanese Foreign Ministry's travel advisories.

A public relations officer of the Tokyo-based travel agency JTB Corp said the firm may receive more inquiries about the situation in Thailand but has not received any cancellation for tour packages.

Another Tokyo-based tour operator, HIS Co, said it contacted every traveler leaving for Thailand on Friday to provide information about the situation there.

The government has so far received no information about damage and injuries involving Japanese residents and visitors in Thailand, according to Kishida.

The government will make maximum efforts to ensure the safety of Japanese nationals in Thailand by providing information and issuing safety alerts, he said.

According to the Japanese Foreign Ministry, about 52,000 Japanese people lived in Thailand as of Oct 2012.

The military staged a coup, the first since Sept 2006, on Thursday, declaring that the military and police seized power after two days of talks failed to reach a breakthrough in a months-long political crisis.

----------


## xanax

> The army should just have the election in two months and move the country forward. It's that simple.


Naw, they need to pass the 'reforms' first to ensure the people kicked out don't win the next election.

----------


## lom

> the loser is some 70% of 68m people


You did grab that percentage out of thin air, didn't you?   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Mid

> The council performed government duties but did not intend to stay long, Gen.Prayuth reiterated.


didn't take long for him to learn polly talk  :mid: 

elsewhere 2 yrs is the figure .......................

----------


## taxexile

> Economy, Trade and Industry Minister Toshimitsu Motegi told a press conference.


note, its not a statement from the pm. 

thats all they are worried about,  trade and profit. 

his one mention of "democracy" came right at the end of his statement.

----------


## Merrimack

Al jazeera story here. Go to link outside...

Is troubled Thailand tumbling into civil war? | Al Jazeera America

----------


## Troy

The BKK report was a copy from :
Japan firms hunker down after Thai coup | The Japan Times


omitting the last part...


The Japanese government plans to urge parties concerned to resolve the situation as early as possible.
 Economic and fiscal policy minister Akira Amari warned that Thailand  could lose its key role in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations if  the political confusion is prolonged.
 The administration of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is working to  strengthen relations with Southeast Asian countries in order to deal  with a rising China. Tokyo attaches great importance to ties with  Thailand, a major player in the rapidly growing region.
 “If the political turmoil continues, Japan-Thailand relations could  be negatively affected,” a Japanese government official said.
 On Thursday, the Foreign Ministry set up an office to gather  information on the Thai situation. The Japanese government plans to ask  Thai authorities to ensure the safety of Japanese nationals in the  country.

----------


## Merrimack

*The 21 announcements of the National Peace and Order Maintenance Council* (NPOMC)following the coup on May 22, 2014 at 16.30 from Pratchatai

https://www.facebook.com/PrachataiEnglish

----------


## Merrimack

Thailand's form of government on Wikipedia has been changed to "*Monarchy Administered by military Junta*"

https://twitter.com/Thai_Talk/status...747264/photo/1

----------


## Merrimack

Prachatai video from Ratchayothin confrontation




Another better clip on it.

----------


## nidhogg

> Thailand's form of government on Wikipedia has been changed to "*Monarchy Administered by military Junta*"


They could save a lot of time and just have "Changable".

----------


## Yasojack

The more i read and watch this, the more i think the shit is going to hit the fan.

----------


## Waid

^ It already has.

----------


## Yasojack

nah not yet.

----------


## Merrimack

Still Going toward victory monument. Using motorcycles, too. Posted in the last hour.










Described as very intense. "Protesters now pushing soldiers back. Very tense. Riot soldiers not armed but armed ones behind"

https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews

----------


## Waid

What you see is Not what you get, in Thailand, I suspect.

----------


## Merrimack

Armed soldiers on skywalk at victory monument.



https://twitter.com/CitizenTHAIPBS/s...704769/photo/1

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Armed soldiers on skywalk at victory monument.
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/CitizenTHAIPBS/s...704769/photo/1


North of victory monument at Pahonyothin Soi 2 two buses of police riot squads all women interestingly backed by an Army unit or company with automatic weapons were mustering around 345 pm sorry no photo was driving

----------


## Mr Lick

Not what one would call a huge response against the military takeover in the capital, given it was the first day of the weekend holiday.

Imo, army personnel made an error of judgement carrying shields where none seemed necessary. It stokes the fire and also gives protesters the opportunity of throwing objects, pulling or pushing on the personal protection equipment without causing harm/suffering redress.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by leemo
> 
> the loser is some 70% of 68m people
> 
> 
> You did grab that percentage out of thin air, didn't you?


I grabbed it from our glorious leaders.

----------


## leemo

> ^ It already has.


Just cueing up...

----------


## leemo

> Not what one would call a huge response against the military takeover in the capital, given it was the first day of the weekend holiday.
> 
> Imo, army personnel made an error of judgement carrying shields where none seemed necessary. It stokes the fire and also gives protesters the opportunity of throwing objects, pulling or pushing on the personal protection equipment without causing harm/suffering redress.


Going in the right direction. With zero armed resistance and massively equipped to respond anyway, our glorious leaders should have chosen to kick it off without a weapon in sight. 

Nobody but nobody would assume there are no armed personnel in the background.

Imho it would have been a PR victory, both domestic and international, and they may even have been able to promote it as a popular coup. Most Thais could be persuaded to swallow anything that comes their way.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Still Going toward victory monument. U
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lot of ipads and Samsung phones there protesting. Lets hope they don't get damaged, the shock of a buggered expensive iphone would end the revolutionary spirit pretty sharpish.

----------


## taxexile

looks like a small bunch of amateur protesters playing to the bbc/cnn hacks.

they've just shown the scenes on al jizz, listening to the reporter you would think she is in syria amongst the bombs, bullets and gore.

----------


## Lostandfound

> Originally Posted by Mr Lick
> 
> 
> Not what one would call a huge response against the military takeover in the capital, given it was the first day of the weekend holiday.
> 
> Imo, army personnel made an error of judgement carrying shields where none seemed necessary. It stokes the fire and also gives protesters the opportunity of throwing objects, pulling or pushing on the personal protection equipment without causing harm/suffering redress.
> 
> 
> Going in the right direction. With zero armed resistance and massively equipped to respond anyway, our glorious leaders should have chosen to kick it off without a weapon in sight. 
> ...


Spot on.

Free somtam carts for the darkies and 2 for 1  voucher deals at Crispy Creme for the lighter skinned. 

Problem solved and smiles all round.

----------


## aging one

> Imo, army personnel made an error of judgement carrying shields where none seemed necessary.


Police who are part of this coup.

----------


## mustafa goze

no virgins in this one.

----------


## Zooheekock

Protesters at Victory Monument

----------


## Tom Sawyer

HRW finally showing metal but where is Amnesty? Yet again f'ing hopeless

----------


## mustafa goze

What of the promised announcement, Sawyer?!

----------


## terry57

Quite a funny read this thread,

On one hand we have the predictable few hysterical posters predicting death, doom and civil war and on the other hand we have the more balanced ones saying its business as usual and nothing to get to excite about. 

The only way it will kick off is if the silly protestors from either camp decide they have bigger balls than the Army and decide to riot or start burning building.

If the protestors take this path we will see some blood shed and it wont be the Army's. 

2010 should remind  protestors what is awaiting if they decide to get silly and not let things settle down a tad and run its course. 

Both sides had their chance to sort things out and did not.

The Army had no choice but to stage a coup and they should be congratulated for being so Patient for so long.

They are now calling the shots end of. 

All the blow hard's on this forum are mearly speculating and posturing. 

Civil war,  End of Thailand's tourist industry, Expats leaving in droves for Cambodia ???   

 :rofl:

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Just watched a Sky News reporter rant from MBK area, what a lightweight - he said pro-democracy protestors make up a small portion and are not representative of the majority in Thailand. Then he said they wanted to get to victory monument but that protest didn't happen. - idiot.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

Certainly a stroke of luck for the regime that all the red leaders dutifully turned up at HQ, spick and span and ready for arrest.

Had they stayed at large this weekend might have gone differently on the streets.

----------


## terry57

> Just watched a Sky News reporter rant from MBK area, what a lightweight - he said pro-democracy protestors make up a small portion and are not representative of the majority in Thailand.



Is he right or wrong ?

Personal opinion only , everyone has one. 

The answer will depend on what side one is on.

 It means nothing except to the gullible that know nothing about Thailand and its political history.

----------


## Zooheekock

> Certainly a stroke of luck for the regime that all the red leaders dutifully turned up at HQ, spick and span and ready for arrest.
> 
> Had they stayed at large this weekend might have gone differently on the streets.


Unless they detain them indefinitely or Natthawut and co. are shot trying to escape, there's a long, long, long road in front of the country. There's no need to get disappointed because they haven't won the marathon in the first 2 seconds.

----------


## Zooheekock

More at Victory Monument

----------


## Zooheekock

Meanwhile, in Khon Kaen



There are a very few protesters at Central.

----------


## Dandyhole

Has CNN been taken off air?

----------


## Zooheekock

^ I think so. They said they will be carrying on with coverage via Twitter (in Thai).

----------


## aging one

It has not come back on air since being taken off the first hours of the coup.

----------


## pseudolus

> Has CNN been taken off air?


Clever move by the junta- cutting off the propaganda machines like that.

----------


## Zooheekock

Soldiers being chased away at Victory Monument

----------


## Mr Lick

> Protesters at Victory Monument


 
''When do we want it..... 2016!''  :Smile:

----------


## Dandyhole

"CNN TV has been taken off air in Thailand. The people of Thailand deserve to know what is happening in their own country, and CNN is committed to telling them. Follow our updates on Facebook and Twitter, and share your updates from Thailand via CNN iReport."

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> CNN TV has been taken off air in Thailand





> The people of Thailand deserve to know what is happening in their own country


 :rofl:  Like any of them watch CNN.

----------


## Zooheekock

^ If none of them watch it then your beloved junta are doubly thick for needlessly exposing themselves (further) as the fascist dinosaurs they are.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Necron99
> ...


Ok now you big girls blouse??

I called Prayuth, he said "Bleeding hell, Nid, I am a bit busy, you know running the country and waterboarding reds, but I will see what I can do".

----------


## Dandyhole

ABC news Australia running header based on Taksin lawyer statement." Ex-PM's Taksin and Yingluck to set up Government in Exile"

----------


## Dandyhole

Thai military spokesman says "no pressure on detainees, they are being given time to think what is best for the country and for them."

Didn't say how many guns were pointing at them during this thinking time.

----------


## robuzo

^Are they in a Most Cartoon Villain-Like Statement contest with Abubakar Shekau of Boko Haram?

----------


## xanax

[QUOTE=terry57;2782271

Civil war,  End of Thailand's tourist industry, Expats leaving in droves for Cambodia ???   

 :rofl: [/QUOTE]

It would be insurrection on two fronts of course as the one in the south has been going on for years, thousands killed, still mai pen rai as long as the tourists still turn up.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

She's incredibly hot, but a tad uncontrolled of the old fella behind her.

----------


## taxexile

they have just announced that the senate has been disbanded.

----------


## Dandyhole

Human Rights Watch: " Thailand Human Rights in Free-Fall"

----------


## nidhogg

> ABC news Australia running header based on Taksin lawyer statement." Ex-PM's Taksin and Yingluck to set up Government in Exile"


Jeeze.  Bet Yingluck, sitting in an army barracks somewhere is totally f*cking _thrilled_ about that!!!!!

----------


## Sumbitch

All the Western news channels back on the air by Monday, last curfew Sunday night. Bets?

----------


## Dandyhole

Bangkok post military correspondent reporting junta claim that HRH private secretary _acknowledges_ Prayuth letter of power take-over and martial law

----------


## Zooheekock

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> 
> ABC news Australia running header based on Taksin lawyer statement." Ex-PM's Taksin and Yingluck to set up Government in Exile"
> 
> 
> Jeeze.  Bet Yingluck, sitting in an army barracks somewhere is totally f*cking _thrilled_ about that!!!!!


She's turned into Jason Bourne and single-handedly fought her way ought of the country.

----------


## robuzo

> they have just announced that the senate has been disbanded.


The appointed are now disappointed?

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> ...


Or maybe she used her feminine wiles- foul temptress, perhaps the army were unprepared despite being informed incessantly by the good people about what a whore she is.

----------


## somtamslap

Haha. Red shirts have just been chanting Ai Hia on the beeb.

----------


## Gerbil

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> 
> ABC news Australia running header based on Taksin lawyer statement." Ex-PM's Taksin and Yingluck to set up Government in Exile"
> 
> 
> Jeeze.  Bet Yingluck, sitting in an army barracks somewhere is totally f*cking _thrilled_ about that!!!!!


Yeah, I guess that '3-7 days detention' just got extended quite a bit.

I mean, for fucks sake.... Couldn't they have waited a few days until she was out (and probably spirited out of the country)? Or did dear old brother decide she would be more use as a 'martyr'?

----------


## Dandyhole

> they have just announced that the senate has been disbanded.


Military Junta leader Prayuth has grabbed all law-making responsibilities

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> ...


Amazing innit?

bend over, grit your teeth.  Lube?  What is lube?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Human Rights Watch: " Thailand Human Rights in Free-Fall"


Noted. Amnesty International? Nada?

----------


## Mid

> Amnesty International


statement released .

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Amazing innit?


Or more like sad. Real sad...

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Reuters reports Yingluck out of detention in a "safe Place"

Opposition to Thai coup simmers; ex-PM in

----------


## Dandyhole

Junta continues Rape of Democracy, now controls both executive and legislative branches of government.

----------


## Mr Lick

When Yingy gets released she'll probably want to distance herself from that megalomaniac brother of hers.

She has her family to consider and won't want to live in exile at his expense. Lets not forget that her bruv has been trying his hardest to get back here for the past 6 years. Why bugger her life up?

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
>  Amnesty International
> 
> 
> statement released .


"The regime must immediately clarify a legal basis for this move and where they are. No one should be detained on the basis for their peaceful political opinions or affiliations," said Richard Bennett, Asia-Pacific director for Amnesty.

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> 
> Human Rights Watch: " Thailand Human Rights in Free-Fall"
> 
> 
> Noted. Amnesty International? Nada?


Go to their website. Amnesty International | Thailand: Protest arrests set
23 May 2014
Thailand: Protest arrests set dangerous precedent, military regime must show restraint

The new Thai military regime has imposed harsh restrictions on freedom of expression and assembly that should be repealed immediately, Amnesty International said as the army dispersed a peaceful protest today and reportedly arrested at least three people.
The organization also urges the military regime to immediately clarify the whereabouts of scores of political leaders reported to be detained in unknown locations, and allow them access to lawyers.

----------


## buriramboy

Senate dissolved and police chief sacked........

----------


## taxexile

Amnesty International




> The organization also urges the military regime to immediately clarify the whereabouts of scores of political leaders reported to be detained in unknown locations, and allow them access to lawyers.


 :rofl: 

the lawyers here are worse than the generals.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Senate dissolved and police chief sacked........


Yet, Yingluck got kicked out for legally removing an abhisit appointee...

Quite interesting how all these little legal games that are played against PT, but never any PADites, are not even used by the army, just remove anybody and everything they want while claiming that they have a legal right for their actions. Even funnier, how some posters on here still support the army coup and will accept anything they do...

Will we now get a fully appointed senate?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by buriramboy
> 
> Senate dissolved and police chief sacked........
> 
> 
> Yet, Yingluck got kicked out for legally removing an abhisit appointee...


Yeah, the irony..

----------


## buriramboy

Seems a bit strange to me dissolving the senate as they basically controlled it anyway, the generals certainly not making life any easier for themselves.

----------


## FlyFree

*Full Definition of BRAVADO*

1
_a_ *:*  blustering swaggering conduct   
_b_ *:*  a pretense of bravery


Lots of Ozzzies an wannabe Ozzzies on this thread suddenly.

Or maybe some are just starting to notice it's not same same this time around?

----------


## aging one

> Reuters reports Yingluck out of detention in a "safe Place"


she is being detained in a safe place. One of the military camps in Saraburi. How can you read that into what was reported 10 hours ago?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Anyway, to me the good news is that the world now fully understands the picture in Thailand and the final pieces of the puzzle are coming into place. The Amart/Sakdina coalition to defeat democracy is laid bare for everyone in the world to see. None of this was very clear to most of the world following the last coup - it's crystal clear now. In fact, foreigners now understand it better than most Thais - though I'd say almost all Thais now understand the gambit in play.

----------


## robuzo

> Seems a bit strange to me dissolving the senate as they basically controlled it anyway, the generals certainly not making life any easier for themselves.


Dropping all pretense, which admittedly is strange for Thailand.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> Reuters reports Yingluck out of detention in a "safe Place"
> 
> 
> she is being detained in a safe place. One of the military camps in Saraburi. How can you read that into what was reported 10 hours ago?


I'm not - Reuters is. Their source says she's not in Saraburi with the others. But note the story says she's not entirely free and her movements are being monitored

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> Reuters reports Yingluck out of detention in a "safe Place"
> 
> 
> she is being detained in a safe place. One of the military camps in Saraburi. How can you read that into what was reported 10 hours ago?


Yes, still detained, but in a VIP facility

----------


## pseudolus

Is she the first ever hiSo corrupt millionaire to actually be detained in Thailand?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> they have just announced that the senate has been disbanded.


Yet oddly the Constitutional Court remains -- without a Constitution.

----------


## Mr Lick

^^^ Along with her former National Police Chief relative no doubt. Rounding them up one by one.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Is she the first ever hiSo corrupt millionaire to actually be detained in Thailand?


The Rules of the Game for all Members of the Amart and their Sakdina Superiors state that no one of any higher class or influence shall be imprisoned with the rabble unless one plays outside of the rules of the Members.

Thaksin played outside the rules - they were going to make an example of him - and so he bolted.

----------


## Dandyhole

18 thai newspapers summoned to junta HQ
13 explosions in pattani all in 7-11's, casualties

----------


## 9999

Some serious shit going down in CM right ...

----------


## pseudolus

He has a mangina

----------


## 9999

It really is kicking off in CM and elsewhere...




> Richard Barrow @RichardBarrow  ·  1m
> Fires & blackout in Pattani in Southern #Thailand after a series of explosions. At least 2 dead - TR @js100radio 
> 
> Richard Barrow @RichardBarrow  ·  3m
> Soldiers in Chiang Mai fired shots into the air to break up anti-coup protest. 5 arrested - TR @tud_TRNEWS: pic.twitter.com/f4YAIAqAi3 #ThaiCoup


https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow

----------


## Dandyhole

> He has a mangina


Love to know what's going on in that soldiers mind

----------


## Tom Sawyer

I wouldn't call some tourist's photo as evidence things are "kicking off" in Chiang Mai's irritating and boring one-way system

----------


## 9999

> I wouldn't call some tourist's photo as evidence things are "kicking off" in Chiang Mai's irritating and boring one-way system


How about shots fired in the air and scuffle with protestors? Chill out dude you're so kranky and hysterical you're missing key bits of info.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Seems a bit strange to me dissolving the senate as they basically controlled it anyway


Good sign.

Some of the senate - while not bad guys - are lost in a 200yr old world. Important to update to people that understand a modern environment.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> I wouldn't call some tourist's photo as evidence things are "kicking off" in Chiang Mai's irritating and boring one-way system
> 
> 
> How about shots fired in the air and scuffle with protestors? Chill out dude you're so kranky and hysterical you're missing key bits of info.


Not at all, I saw that and agree, but posting photos of some goof tourist posing with soldiers is hardly indicative of anything is it?

----------


## Moonraker

> Originally Posted by 9999
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> ...



I'm quite sure he was being tongue in cheek.

----------


## somtamslap

You'd like to hope so...

----------


## tomta

> Quote: Originally Posted by taxexile has china denounced the coup Good point.


I don' t think China is in the coup denouncing business. It might serve as a reminder of Tien An Men Square.

By the way, when girls are taking selfies with the handsome soldiers, the soldiers don't seem quite as happy as they did back in 2006 with the roses. Or is that just me? The troops look very edgy indeed.

----------


## Moonraker

> You'd like to hope so...


Indeed

----------


## Troy

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> they have just announced that the senate has been disbanded.
> 
> 
> Yet oddly the Constitutional Court remains -- without a Constitution.


Probably allows the Senators a chance to run another day, depending on the outcome of recent events.

...CC has already damaged itself beyond repair and needs replacing anyway.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> By the way, when girls are taking selfies with the handsome soldiers, they don't seem quite as happy as they did back in 2006 with the roses. Or is that just me? The troops look very edgy indeed.


I think so too - every photo I've seen except the frightened guy being arrested, the troops looked edgy if not really unhappy

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by taxexile
> ...


yet CC still there.. why?

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by aging one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> ...


Waterboarded with Perrier, maybe.

----------


## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by Exit Strategy
> 
> Quote: Originally Posted by taxexile has china denounced the coup Good point.
> 
> 
> I don' t think China is in the coup denouncing business. It might serve as a reminder or TienAn Men Square.
> 
> By the way, when girls are taking selfies with the handsome soldiers, they don't seem quite as happy as they did back in 2006 with the roses. Or is that just me? The troops look very edgy indeed.


Very different feel to this one, than 2006, dangerous game. If not played right, the army can not control the whole country. 
Big trouble coming if things get out of hand, police and conscript soldiers may not follow BKK.

Hope clear heads will prevail, but people with guns are not happy in Issan.

----------


## tomta

> Not what one would call a huge response against the military takeover in the capital, given it was the first day of the weekend holiday


Much bigger than 2006. And look what that turned into.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Yes there is a real denial of what is going here by some.

----------


## tomta

> There are a very few protesters at Central.


And it's easy to see why.

----------


## Yasojack

Not according to the US Ambassador in BKK, she sent a junior embassy official to the meeting for diplomats as she had to go elsewhere. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Tom Sawyer

US Ambassador is just keeping with appearances. She knows her role. Means nothing 2 or 3 months or a year from now. It's just like the postings of someone at TD (a shill)  I referred to before (deleted) who's Modus Operandi is to come out with lots of sympathetic pro-people-power coverage, only to shift to support for the appointed "civilian" government.. and then post months of pro-coup-appointed "news" from the Nation etc.. Same-Same will happen in the coming weeks months. He went quiet as his interventions weren't needed as the PDRC were doing the job. He's back now..for reasons stated above. Mid knows

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by pseudolus
> 
> 
> Is she the first ever hiSo corrupt millionaire to actually be detained in Thailand?
> 
> 
> The Rules of the Game for all Members of the Amart and their Sakdina Superiors state that no one of any higher class or influence shall be imprisoned with the rabble unless one plays outside of the rules of the Members.
> 
> Thaksin played outside the rules - they were going to make an example of him - and so he bolted.


You are clearly quite, quite mad.

I suspect your own folk back in whatever drear place you used to inhabit think you were, and, presumably, still are, a dickhead.

You have no vote here, you can never become Thai, you have no rights to residence and no Thai thinks of you beyond what pittance you might bring to the table. Why on earth do you continue to spout your drivel as if you are part of a constituency worth a hoot?

----------


## Yasojack

thegent should change his name to thekunt :Smile:

----------


## tomta

> Quote: Originally Posted by buriramboy View Post Seems a bit strange to me dissolving the senate as they basically controlled it anyway, the generals certainly not making life any easier for themselves. Dropping all pretense, which admittedly is strange for Thailand.


The Senate meetings over the past few weeks that have been trying to illegally appoint a new PM have been informal and involving only 70 or so senators, mostly appointed. It wouldn't be a good look at all if the whole Senate, elected and appointed, were to have a free and open debate.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pseudolus
> ...


Why do you Hooray-Henry?

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by tomta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Exit Strategy
> ...


The story takes a different twist outside of BKK, Jim...

----------


## Rural Surin

> Yes there is a real denial of what is going here by some.


Indeed there is, TS....

It's appearing throughout all circles.

Mad as hatters.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

No Rural Surin, you just want to think that's the case. What will you be saying if and when there is real trouble? Will you come up with some other irrelevant nonsense? You want to believe that only Bangkok is anti-coup and the villagers in Surin or wherever couldn't care less? While there may not be some Red Flag racing down your peaceful little village soi, that doesn't meant that the villagers haven't been mobilized or radicalized. You think everyone else is the fool? Maybe look in the mirror.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Came home tonight in a packed Skytrain. No strained faces beyond those who failed to get seat. The girls in the massage place next to where I had lunch still beckoned me with their gestures and grunts I recall seeing when I last went to view the bonobo apes at Dusit Zoo. The bars in the lower Sukhumvit sois  were staying open to show the Champions League final at 0200hrs. The traffic outside, now well past the curfew, still flows. The Thai baht is still around the same markas has prevailed for the past month, the SET hasn't developed a bear run, Central World was still full of shoppers, tourists still poodle, and the TV stills churns out vacuous garbage. Never saw a soldier all day and, typically, never saw a copper who wasn't on points duty. Soi Cowboy still works, noodle sellers noodle, the offices are full of workers, department stores still sport legions of vacuous nose picking post adolescents and it's still fucking hot.

In short, no one who matters gives a fuck about this coup, about the Shinawattras, about fucking constitutions, about constitutional courts, about Amart Sakdina conspiracies, or about what happens next.

Normal life continues because politics in Thailand are irrelevant.

----------


## Rural Surin

> No Rural Surin, you just want to think that's the case. What will you be saying if and when there is real trouble? Will you come up with some other irrelevant nonsense? You want to believe that only Bangkok is anti-coup and the villagers in Surin or wherever couldn't care less? While there may not be some Red Flag racing down your peaceful little village soi, that doesn't meant that the villagers haven't been mobilized or radicalized. You think everyone else is the fool? Maybe look in the mirror.


The false sky is falling for some....TS.

For those whom haven't a clue.
More [in numbers] than you might consider.


Especially, amongst the blind Farang circle.
I'm sorry for you......and others of your ilk.

Mad as all get out..... :Smile:

----------


## Waid

A Lao saying : Sabai, sabai.

Jai yen yen.

----------


## Bettyboo

> The girls in the massage place next to where I had lunch still beckoned me with their gestures and grunts I recall seeing when I last went to view the bonobo apes at Dusit Zoo.


These kinds of comments rather spoil any message you attempt to communicate...

----------


## Yasojack

Its Saturday the stock markets are closed  :Smile: 





> Came home tonight in a packed Skytrain. No strained faces beyond those who failed to get seat. The girls in the massage place next to where I had lunch still beckoned me with their gestures and grunts I recall seeing when I last went to view the bonobo apes at Dusit Zoo. The bars in the lower Sukhumvit sois  were staying open to show the Champions League final at 0200hrs. The traffic outside, now well past the curfew, still flows. The Thai baht is still around the same markas has prevailed for the past month, the SET hasn't developed a bear run, Central World was still full of shoppers, tourists still poodle, and the TV stills churns out vacuous garbage. Never saw a soldier all day and, typically, never saw a copper who wasn't on points duty. Soi Cowboy still works, noodle sellers noodle, the offices are full of workers, department stores still sport legions of vacuous nose picking post adolescents and it's still fucking hot.
> 
> In short, no one who matters gives a fuck about this coup, about the Shinawattras, about fucking constitutions, about constitutional courts, about Amart Sakdina conspiracies, or about what happens next.
> 
> Normal life continues because politics in Thailand are irrelevant.

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Troy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> ...


Recall that one section of the constitution was retained.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

The counter-coup has failed.

It's all just a big joke and social media photo-op for Thais.






> Some serious shit going down in CM right ...

----------


## Dandyhole

Prominent The Nation Journalist Pravit summoned by Junta

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Prominent The Nation Journalist Pravit summoned by Junta


Is this serious?  :Smile:

----------


## FloridaBorn

> He has a mangina


Bastid!! Made me look, but the real question here is why were you looking?

On another topic the expressions on the soldiers faces kind of reflect the weapons they're carrying, the smirking one has a nice seemingly new M16 while the other apparently has an old raggedy shot gun, must have been last in queue at the armory me thinks and he's not happy about it. The soldiers must also be very uncomfortable having to actually wear shoes..

Having said that, the guy posing is a real dork and if I were a soldier on guard post I'd not like to have anyone that close to me farang or not. On further consideration, especially a farang..

----------


## Bettyboo

> Prominent The Nation Journalist Pravit summoned by Junta


I saw his interview on the BBC, and he was very honest, and just said the coup was unacceptable in his opinion.

Now he has been called in to be threatened and bullied...

----------


## Troy

> The counter-coup has failed.


Any counter to the coup will not be seen for a while yet....

----------


## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by jamescollister
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by tomta
> ...


That's a problem, Thailand is not BKK, here people think people from the south are black hearts. They will fight if things go bad.
They love the King, but have no time for BKK, presume that's why the border troops have pulled back. Don't start a fight you may lose, lots of weapons in the area. Jim

----------


## Dandyhole

US army chief of staff General Odiermo calls Prayuth and urges return to democratic principles, Bangkok post

----------


## BaitongBoy

> The girls in the massage place next to where I had lunch still beckoned me with their gestures and grunts


So how did that end?...I have never had a "bloke" grunt at me...

----------


## pickel

> the soldiers don't seem quite as happy as they did back in 2006 with the roses. Or is that just me? The troops look very edgy indeed.


Soldiers around the world will never look happy when they are about to kill their countrymen, right or wrong.

----------


## Yasojack

Its being reported Thaksin is on his way to Thailand.

----------


## FloridaBorn

VERY seriously doubt that..

----------


## Sumbitch

> I saw his interview on the BBC


BBC Online? Still not available on tv (at least, not on True Visions)

----------


## Thormaturge

> Its being reported Thaksin is on his way to Thailand.


I would be surprised since he would surely be detained at the airport.

This rumour did go around a couple of months ago and I suspect it is wishful thinking.

That said, I would not be surprised, when the dust settles, to see a compromise which lets both Thaksin and Suthep off the hook in return for an agreement to remain outside politics permanently, but we are some way from that yet.

----------


## Yasojack

He's in Cambodia presently just waiting for a visa, he's pissed off because prayuth is paying the farmers for there rice.

----------


## rickschoppers

Just curious if anyone has suffered or been thrown off their normal routine by this "coup?'" I am not in Thailand right now, but my wife and son are near Udon and she has said other than Tesco being closed and no real TV to watch, everything is pretty much the same. No real evidence up north other than some demonstrations in Khon Kean.

My personal take is that things will be back to the normal BS in short order and the political strife will continue and never really reach an end point. 

Just my two cents worth.

----------


## terry57

> In short, no one who matters gives a fuck about this coup, about the Shinawattras, about fucking constitutions, about constitutional courts, about Amart Sakdina conspiracies, or about what happens next.
> 
> Normal life continues because politics in Thailand are irrelevant.



So true that,  Its business as usual for the vast amount of Thais. 

They are only concerned with losing money, this Political situation has played out time and time again. 

Absolutely normal stuff for Thailand and as far as Coups go, so far this one is tame as fuk.  

Banter on Farang political nutters.  :Confused:

----------


## terry57

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> The girls in the massage place next to where I had lunch still beckoned me with their gestures and grunts I recall seeing when I last went to view the bonobo apes at Dusit Zoo.
> 
> 
> 
> These kinds of comments rather spoil any message you attempt to communicate...




Absolutely not Betty its just that you're blind to the message.

Its crystal clear that Thegent holds the opinion that its business as usual for the vast majority of Thais. 

Unlock your Red biased and have a look around.

----------


## terry57

> J
> 
> My personal take is that things will be back to the normal BS in short order and the political strife will continue and never really reach an end point.



Of course so,  18 coups since 1932 proves that exact point. 

Jesus, 

Its like saying Pattaya will go broke simply because a few mongering scum are heading home to Bouremouth . 

Pattaya will never change nor will Thai politics.

----------


## rickschoppers

^
My thoughts as well Terry.

----------


## Merrimack

Bizzare training of Thai conscripts posted by https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner

VIDEO GRAPHIC Bizarre sexual hazing routine in Thai Army or h... on Twitpic


Thailand certainly is a different world.

----------


## xanax

> J
> My personal take is that things will be back to the normal BS in short order and the political strife will continue and never really reach an end point. 
> 
> Just my two cents worth.


Normal including the ongoing insurgency in the south. I see the 11 bombings yesterday including a few dead do not seem to register, as long as the shops are open Thais will be happy to stick their heads in the sand.

----------


## xanax

> Bizzare training of Thai conscripts posted by https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner
> 
> VIDEO GRAPHIC Bizarre sexual hazing routine in Thai Army or h... on Twitpic
> 
> 
> Thailand certainly is a different world.


strewth the dirty bastards, BF will want to join up when he sees this.

----------


## terry57

^ ^

The Insurgency in the South has been going on for many many years with thousands of people killed.

This coup changes nothing. 

The Muslim radicals continue killing people as per normal.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Thailand certainly is a different world.


Definitely different than the first.

----------


## terry57

Actually the amount of people killed in all of the Coups in Thailand pales into insignificance compared with the lives lost down south.

All this Political banter could be put to good use coming up with real answers on how to deal with the disgrace that's happening down South.  

The atrocities that happen are quite disturbing in there brutality, beheadings, burning schools, targeting monks, school teachers and killing innocent people.

Only last week did the Muslim militants kill a retired solder and burn him on the road.  :Confused:

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> Bizzare training of Thai conscripts posted by https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner
> 
> VIDEO GRAPHIC Bizarre sexual hazing routine in Thai Army or h... on Twitpic
> 
> 
> Thailand certainly is a different world.
> ...


Maybe it's to weed out the BF's of the world from the Thai military, if one gets an erection or finishes off he's the one that gets his own room and showers or booted out..

----------


## Bettyboo

> Actually the amount of people killed in all of the Coups in Thailand pales into insignificance compared with the lives lost down south.


Suchinda Kraprayoon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_May_(1992)

Thanom Kittikachorn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thammasat University massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sarit Thanarat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plaek Phibunsongkhram - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You might want to read up about the Thai generals who conducted numerous coups and killed tens of thousands of Thais, tewwy...

----------


## terry57

^

Morning Betty, knew you would be along soon.     :Smile:

----------


## terry57

> a
> 
> You might want to read up about the Thai generals who conducted numerous coups and killed tens of thousands of Thais, tewwy...




Betty, you're making shit up again.  

Nowhere in your cut and pastes does it mention tens of thousands. 

The insurgence down South has killed Thousands, that's fact.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Lumpini Park.

A few hours ago.

----------


## terry57

^ 

Amazing how things return to Normal after the madness of the masses in that park a few weeks ago. 

Exactly the same will happen in Bangkok once this coup blows over. 

Same as the times before.

----------


## Thormaturge

Will Bangkok be sepia toned too?

----------


## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> a
> 
> You might want to read up about the Thai generals who conducted numerous coups and killed tens of thousands of Thais, tewwy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try educating yourself, tewwy. Over the terms of these army generals and coup imposed dictatorships many many thousands (tens) of people were killed.

This idea that the army are some polite and loving saviour of the Thai people is utterly wrong. There are numerous books and articles on the subject.

Also, the numbers put on many of these junta mass murderings are massively higher than official figures. For example, during Samak's reign as PM (a tad more complex through his political career than being a Thaksin puppet...) he stated on TV that 1 person died at Thammasat in 73'. I think the official figure is something like 43. I've spoken to a few people who were there at the time, and they all told me that the number was over 600 at that spot alone, with other mass killings in other parts of the country at the same time. Keeping numbers of the dead down is one reason that the junta keeps a very tight hold of the media - something that should always worry any intelligent person, and why it has been so thoroughly condemned by so many governments and organizations around the world this week. Remember, this current general junta leader still claims that the army killed nobody in 2010, that protesters 'ran into' bullets, and that the people murdered at the temple in Silom had nothing to do with the army. But, you just keep loving these generals, tewwy, they're good for the nation...

----------


## cyrille

> So true that, Its business as usual for the vast amount of Thais. 
> 
> They are only concerned with losing money


It's amazing how often on here perfectly expected normal human reaction is given a negative spin.

If this were in the UK it would all be 'spirit of the blitz' stuff. For some people when the same thing happens in Thailand, people just going about their business, it's because they are 'money grubbing slant eyes'.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Err, rather think it's you who is spinning. The " blitz spirit " you refer to among the Brits is manifested in adversity and demonstrates a willingness to carry on normal life despite that adversity.

There is no adversity to overcome here in Thailand by the masses as a consequence of the coup. That's the point - it is irrelevant to them and most ignore it. The Thai propensity for accommodating material gain at every opportunity is well known.

----------


## Bettyboo

> There is no adversity to overcome here in Thailand by the masses as a consequence of the coup.


That's a rather different viewpoint to Thai journalists, world governments, monitoring organizations and Thais on social media.

An elected government thrown out, media turned off and totally controlled, large numbers of detainments, constitution/government/senate/etc thrown out, an army general appointing himself to rule everything under threat of the army gun, academics, journalists, anybody vocally critical of the junta arrested, direct threats by the junta to everybody and anybody who would dare question a single word or decree they order. &, you say it's nothing. Hmmm...




> The Thai propensity for accommodating material gain at every opportunity is well known.


As is your dehumanizing of Thais.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

For every 1 trouble maker there are 100,000 regular Thais who would never ever choose to kill each other - no matter the political situation.

----------


## cyrille

> The " blitz spirit " you refer to among the Brits is manifested in adversity and demonstrates a willingness to carry on normal life despite that adversity.


There is plenty of adversity in Thailand.

Enough to make most Brits spend the day weeping into a warm half of mild.

Whether or not it's caused by the coup is utterly irrelevant to the gist of my post.




> The Thai propensity for accommodating material gain at every opportunity is well known.


Called 'spirit in the face of adversity' when displayed by a Brit.

Thanks for encapsulating the ludicrous double standard in one sentence.

----------


## Bettyboo

> For every 1 trouble maker


This is why people like you and tewwy are dangerous, albert. By trouble maker, you actually mean somebody who is doing nothing other than standing up for their democratic rights; no violence, no harm to others, just respecting the law (which, by definition the coupists are not). The people who held a placard saying 'we want to vote' and were then arrested, are 'trouble makers'. Very scary how gullible people so easily follow the discourse of an army junta... Hence why the junta are so keen to control social discourse, they know how gullible some folks, such as you and tewwy, are... Scary stuff, you'd make Geobbels proud...

----------


## Troy

> They are only concerned with losing money, this Political situation has played out time and time again.  Absolutely normal stuff for Thailand and as far as Coups go, so far this one is tame as fuk.


It is all too easy to get complacent about things because: "it's all happened before".

However, there was an underlying stability provided by the HoS, which gave a common ground for everyone to look up to/ respect. This was already dwindling in 2006 and has all but disappeared this time round.

Judging the coup wrt Country stability, just a couple of days afterwards, is like judging a Test after the first over.  A lot of things may or may not happen in the following months that may affect the lives of many people and especially farangs.

No-one really knows what results this coup will bring.  The 1997 Constitution was enormously beneficial for Thailand. The changes made in 2007 were a significant step backwards. The early indications are that this coup will be a further step in the wrong direction. That may lead to further instability rather than the Military stated improvements. 

If that was not enough, the chances are that the Military will change the Constitution to allow for a different HoS, that will force the hands of those that have been waiting patiently for the wind to change.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

It seems to me that there a just a handful of posters who are seriously upset about this coup. The majority of posts have been complaints about the TV.

It is an internal Thai matter, to be sorted out eventually by the Thai.

Many of the most prolific coup posters do not even live in Thailand. I have not posted on the political aspects of the coup as I no longer live in Thailand, and stopped following Thai internal politics years ago.

I could be wrong, but I doubt that any posters are Thai citizens, or even permanent residents. If foreigners feel at risk for themselves or their families, that's another thing - but I haven't seen that posted anywhere.

Coups happen in many countries. The gap between rich and poor is huge in most countries. Voters are apathetic in most countries. This is a Thai internal event...it's not the first time, nor do I believe it will be the last.

As a foreigner, you have no voice. Let the Thai sort it out. You may not agree with the result, but it's their country, not yours.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> They are only concerned with losing money, this Political situation has played out time and time again.  Absolutely normal stuff for Thailand and as far as Coups go, so far this one is tame as fuk.
> 
> 
> It is all too easy to get complacent about things because: "it's all happened before".
> 
> However, there was an underlying stability provided by the HoS, which gave a common ground for everyone to look up to/ respect. This was already dwindling in 2006 and has all but disappeared this time round.
> 
> ...


Instability and improvements are subjective, and it is the subjective view of armed criminals that are being imposed upon the country. 

This coup has longer impacting objectives than the last, one of which is to crush the Thaksin legacy and restore the pre-Thaksin regime, which is the equivalent of judicially enforcing the masses into legislated subservience to earlier thieves and looters.

Note that while the yellows are afforded preferential treatment with a certain amount of leeway and freedoms, most highly positioned friends of Thaksin are either detained or, erm, in hiding abroad. 

And once you start rounding up academics whilst using the 're-education' word, it is time for the people to step back, take stock, and chop you down. And ffs grow up, it won't be bloodless.

----------


## Bettyboo

> As a foreigner, you have no voice.


We are in this forum, not on the streets of Bkk, we have a voice here.




> Let the Thai sort it out.


What else can we do? 




> You may not agree with the result, but it's their country, not yours.


Yes and no. If people have a family and/or children in Thailand and/live in Thailand then they are involved. 

The idea of apathy and non-involvement is a very worrying one. Places, cultures, societies and people are always in flux, always moving and always changing. In Thailand, Uk and US people affect society and not all of those people that affect society were born there or had a passport for that place, indeed they don't even need to be there.

Martin Luther King and Gandhi had a massive affect on people and cultures around the world, yet most of those people never went to India or America and may not even have lived during the same period. Gandhi won out in India, not because of Indians and their power, but because of the way he changed the feelings of people in the UK. People affect each other across cultures - many of the 'skills' learnt by these army generals (and all of them since the 1930's) were learnt in the UK, France and the US.

People do have voices, all people have voices and voices travel, especially in the internet age. Why do you think that the junta close down international media and social media if they have no affect, no voice no power?

Sorry, Davis, you are a fine poster, but I can't agree with your sentiments in the above post.

----------


## hillbilly

> As a foreigner, you have no voice. Let the Thai sort it out. You may not agree with the result, but it's their country, not yours.


Sorry DK but I have heard this argument over and over again. This past year like many other 'falangs' I have paid enough Thai taxes to raise an entire village. Fair enough I live here. Don't get anything in return other than the fact that I can live here with my family, most everything I need is paid for in cash.

Still no payment on our rice. This was part of my retirement plan in which I had trusted the Thai government for many years.

As the head of the family how should I reply when my wife or 50/50 daughter asks me what do I think? They want to know why I sit by and do nothing.

Regardless, it is my fault. True it is their country but...

----------


## KEVIN2008

Taking refuge in 5-star UK Tylney Hall in the village of Rotherwick.   GUESS WHO ?   :Smile:

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> As a foreigner, you have no voice.
> 
> 
> We are in this forum, not on the streets of Bkk, we have a voice here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No worries. Probably shouldn't have bothered posting it. Not my business.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> 
> As a foreigner, you have no voice. Let the Thai sort it out. You may not agree with the result, but it's their country, not yours.
> 
> 
> Sorry DK but I have heard this argument over and over again. This past year like many other 'falangs' I have paid enough Thai taxes to raise an entire village. Fair enough I live here. Don't get anything in return other than the fact that I can live here with my family, most everything I need is paid for in cash.
> 
> Still no payment on our rice. This was part of my retirement plan in which I had trusted the Thai government for many years.
> ...


I do realize that many of you are deeply rooted in Thailand, and understand how upsetting this can be. As I said above, I probably shouldn't have even posted.

----------


## hillbilly

No problems guy, I get just as frustrated as the next person.

----------


## Bettyboo

> No worries. Probably shouldn't have bothered posting it. Not my business.


It is your business, and you should have posted it. I take your point about being pragmatic, but I always lean on the ideological side because I fear that pragmatism can hide a world of sins...  :Smile:

----------


## cyrille

> 50/50 daughter


This further complicates the 'it's their country, leave them to it' principle, of course.

Things aren't as clear cut as that for people who, along with a Thai parent, are raising kids in Thailand.

----------


## Bettyboo

It's a good thread with good links and diverse comments, so it would be a shame if it got lost. In a passionate situation it's difficult not to respond and be aggressive/insulting from time to time, but folks should make the effort, and comments going beyond should be cut out.

This thread is about a coup in Thailand. This is a Thai based board. Surely, this is a normal place to discuss the coup in Thailand, I find it weird that folks would belittle that and/or people that add their views to the thread.

A coup is not normal. The Thai army and groups that are aligned to them try very hard to frame social discourse so that one would presume that Thailand is special and coups are normal, but that simply is not so. You have a powerful group who lead the army and get massive wealth from it - they are breaking the law and committing treason. Fullstop. Their reasons are for money and power. Fullstop.

----------


## sabang

> Certainly a stroke of luck for the regime that all the red leaders dutifully turned up at HQ, spick and span and ready for arrest.
> 
> Had they stayed at large this weekend might have gone differently on the streets.


What regime? Right now, we've just got a clique of coup happy Generals and a military dictatorship, no Constitution and hence no Rule of Law, national curfew, numerous people being held incommunicado, near total media suppression etc. Hardly a sustainable situation.

Maintaining order is the immediate priority, but what is the plan here- a 'council of wise men', or a return to constitutional democracy, or military junta? Waiting to hear, as is the diplomatic community. I presume the generals & cronies do not wish for the recognised Thai government to be with him offshore.

----------


## Merrimack

A link to BBC video on the protests, may change but now at the McDonald's protest site. Updated this as these don't appear live but recent clips.

BBC News - Army attempts to quash Thai protests

----------


## Merrimack

*Some twitters that have a lot of updates...*

https://twitter.com/berndweb01

https://twitter.com/Rajprasong_News

https://twitter.com/MCOT_Eng
(Mcot just said skytains won't stop at Ploenchit or chitlom until further notice by the way 2:06pm)



https://twitter.com/Saksith


https://twitter.com/bkkbase


*And news links:*

Prachatai English

Khaosod English : Thailand A Click Away

Bangkok Post

Thai Coup,Thailand protests,Thailand News,Thaksin,constitution,thailand politics,amnesty bill,Thai Election,Thai News Online,Thai Newspaper,Nation News,News in Thailand,aec ,asean

MCOT.net - Enews News

Thai PBS English News | The Broadcaster You Can Trust


*
Live TV* 

Channel News Asia
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tv/live


.

----------


## sabang

The Economist makes some cogent points-

The generals are likely to notice two things soon. First, that they cannot rule the country unless they are prepared to use force. Secondly, beyond the walls of the barracks, Thailand has undergone a dramatic transformation, even since 2006. It has moved away even further from being the kind of rural agricultural society with its social relations defined by hierarchical, paternalistic relations. More each year, it resembles a modern state whose individual citizens and social groups look out for their own interests. Social changes that took hundreds of years to emerge in European history have taken just half a century in Thailand. That is less time than the average age of the generals who are trying to revive for Thailand a brand of authoritarianism that was derided as being reserved for the kingdom’s poor neighbours, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar.

When Thailand’s traditional elites made it plain that they did not know how to run the country in 1997—the year the Asian financial crisis cut short Thailand’s economic miracle—the public began to seek greater power and influence for itself. Mr Thaksin happened to be in a position to serve as their vehicle. A thriving oligarch when he came to power in 2001, he built a political machine that ran on a simple principle: find out what people want, and give it to them. He was wily and absolutely ruthless, and he knew to jump on the train that was already rolling. 

This is the underlying force that the generals have to contend with: not Thaksin, but the dramatically changed society that stubbornly brought him to power. 

General Prayuth does not look like a strongman to reorder Thai politics and society. Rather, he looks like a soldier who got fed up dealing with hopeless politicians, and then pushed by his arch-royalist superiors into doing their dirty work and binning electoral democracy
Military coup in Thailand: The darkened horizon | The Economist

----------


## Dillinger

I'd love to see one of you guys air your views on a real Thai site and post the responses on here.you could be the next Mahatma, Betty :Smile: 

Last night I asked a Thai bar owner.whom ive known for years, what he made of the coup and curfew and how long he thought it would last. He looked at me in disgust and walked off. They dont like white boy talking about their politics

----------


## Merrimack

Some protesters in Chiangmai. 



https://twitter.com/MaaxRedCamfrog/s...033216/photo/1

----------


## sabang

The problem with a 'real Thai site' is they are generally either blood red, or vomit yellow.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> For every 1 trouble maker
> 
> 
> This is why people like you and tewwy are dangerous, albert. By trouble maker, you actually mean somebody who is doing nothing other than standing up for their democratic rights; no violence, no harm to others, just respecting the law (which, by definition the coupists are not). The people who held a placard saying 'we want to vote' and were then arrested, are 'trouble makers'. Very scary how gullible people so easily follow the discourse of an army junta... Hence why the junta are so keen to control social discourse, they know how gullible some folks, such as you and tewwy, are... Scary stuff, you'd make Geobbels proud...


 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Err, no Betty - calm down, I'm stating that there will be no civil war over this.

----------


## Mid

> General Prayuth does not look like a strongman to reorder Thai politics and society. Rather, he looks like a soldier who got fed up dealing with hopeless politicians, and then pushed by his arch-royalist superiors into doing their dirty work and binning electoral democracy


He is a military man who has no experience with having his orders questioned much less disobeyed .

He has absolutely no skill set to replace his gun in running the country .

I've no doubt he is becomming acutely aware he is a fish out of water .

----------


## Yasojack

That is very true, We know nothing.



Last night I asked a Thai bar owner.whom ive known for years, what he made of the coup and curfew and how long he thought it would last. He looked at me in disgust and walked off. They dont like white boy talking about their politics[/QUOTE]

----------


## Troy

> Err, no Betty - calm down, I'm stating that there will be no civil war over this


You have been wrong every time so far. 

I hope you are not wrong this time....

----------


## Seekingasylum

I should imagine Prayuth will rapidly understand the nature of his self imposed task when he is told that his command to pay the farmers what they are owed is not possible. The wheels of that scam well and truly fell off when the markets declined to buy into the debt. The losses are immense and without state borrowings to fund them there is nothing in the current budget to pay the farmers.

Economics at this level are troublesome to most societies but to a general with no grounding in such matters the prospects cannot be appealing. 

Given that this was his first significant "edict" I should imagine the man will not be happy if it is not promulgated. Savings will have to be made and those Ukrainian tanks might not be so necessary after all.

----------


## koman

> Originally Posted by economist.com
> 
> 
> General Prayuth does not look like a strongman to reorder Thai politics and society. Rather, he looks like a soldier who got fed up dealing with hopeless politicians, and then pushed by his arch-royalist superiors into doing their dirty work and binning electoral democracy
> 
> 
> He is a military man who has no experience with having his orders questioned much less disobeyed .
> 
> He has absolutely no skill set to replace his gun in running the country .
> ...



The skill set of a top military commander may be somewhat different to that of most elected politicians, but then, there is no annoying opposition party carping and baying from the benches, so you can operate in a completely different way.

  Military staff colleges teach many of the administrative skills needed to run large organizations....and a country is just a large organization after all.   

The good general will not be calling for a vote when he issues an order,  or wasting time debating the merits of his decisions with those who may wish to disagree.

There are some distinct advantages in being a military dictator....and the more successful ones have been shown to be highly efficient, even if it means the odd few dissenters have to be eliminated from time to time....

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> Err, no Betty - calm down, I'm stating that there will be no civil war over this
> 
> 
> You have been wrong every time so far. 
> 
> I hope you are not wrong this time....


 :Confused: 

Wrong every time about what?
Is this just me clashing with your ideologies whatever they may be,or do you have some facts to back-up your bullshit?

----------


## nidhogg

> I should imagine Prayuth will rapidly understand the nature of his self imposed task when he is told that his command to pay the farmers what they are owed is not possible. The wheels of that scam well and truly fell off when the markets declined to buy into the debt. The losses are immense and without state borrowings to fund them there is nothing in the current budget to pay the farmers.


Think I read elsewhere that the funds have already been arranged.

OK , had a shufti, found this, you can probably google the source:

The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) is preparing a Bt55-billion budget from its reserves and the Farmers Assistance Fund to pay farmers owed under the rice-pledging scheme, starting tomorrow.


Yingluck was politically and legally stalled on trying to borrow the funds from Thai banks.  Dictator has less problems.

----------


## Bettyboo

^correct, the payments were stopped as a political pressure. I'm not saying the scheme was a good idea, just saying the payments were stopped by the PADites to build pressure on PT from their own voters.

^^ It's not bullshit, albert - over all the threads since you got vocal re suthep and other issues, you have been utterly wrong at every turn, but still refuse to acknowledge so...

Tell us, albert, what will happen next?

I'll give you my ideas: the protests will grow, prayuth won't know what to do when people don't listen to him, sooner or later he'll tell the troops to start beating and shooting the crowds, but the crowds will continue to grow and spread around the country, this will only take a week or two. Then what?

----------


## Rocksteady

> Actually the amount of people killed in all of the Coups in Thailand pales into insignificance compared with the lives lost down south.
> 
> All this Political banter could be put to good use coming up with real answers on how to deal with the disgrace that's happening down South.  
> 
> The atrocities that happen are quite disturbing in there brutality, beheadings, burning schools, targeting monks, school teachers and killing innocent people.
> 
> Only last week did the Muslim militants kill a retired solder and burn him on the road.


And even this pales into insignificance when you look at the daily carnage up and down the nation - Thai on Thai road deaths - around 80 deaths a day over peak hols and  around 30 deaths daily as the norm - every year.

Never here the international community complain about this, though!

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> It's not bullshit, albert - over all the threads since you got vocal re suthep and other issues, you have been utterly wrong at every turn, but still refuse to acknowledge so...


Facts - points. Wrong about what?

Like I said - other than differing opinions - you can't name one fact i've been wrong on.






> Tell us, albert, what will happen next?


All the parties will sit down and create a sensible road map. Then there will be an election - the result of which will be respected. How long for is another matter obviously.

----------


## Bettyboo

> All the parties will sit down and create a sensible road map. Then there will be an election - the result of which will be respected. How long for is another matter obviously.


Bloody hell, you're an optimist. I hope you're right.  :Smile: 

Do you think the army will do anything about the constitution, take powers away from the voters? More appointments in a senate, for example? How's about the big event, will they stay in power to manage that first? How long will the army stay in power?

----------


## Yasojack

Mark’s “apology”
25
05
2014
Regular readers will know that PPT thinks little of Abhisit Vejjajiva. He’s opportunistic, egotistical and allowed the Democrat Party to be taken over by extremists. He also shares responsibility for the state’s violence in 2010 that left dozens of people dead and thousands injured. He’s allowed himself to be a pawn of Suthep Thaugsuban, the military and extremist anti-democrats. He’s a failed and disgraced politician at the head of a political party that hasn’t won an election for many years.Mark the comedian

He was caught up in the military coup the other day and was looked after by the military for a few hours. This is what he said on his return to his comfortable home:

 Thank you everyone who were worried about me. I apologize for being unable to push through reforms under the Constitution and for not being able to protect democracy.

Mark is pulling his own leg harder than that of anyone else. Abhisit has supported anti-democrats, royalists and fascists all intent on smashing Thailand’s electoral democracy. His “apology” is a shameless and sick joke. His “apology” is a shameless and sick joke. His boycott of elections and trashing of parliament has been a major contribution to the destruction of democracy in Thailand.

----------


## nidhogg

> just saying the payments were stopped by the PADites to build pressure on PT from their own voters.


Payments were stopped long before the current cycle of protest.

The scheme was massively bungled, billions are "missing" and they were trying to throw a few more billions at it - with little likelyhood of the farmers even then getting their dosh.

I would make a guess that some hard audits are ongoing, both of money and rice stocks.  I think some people are going to be trying to answer some very, very hard questions.  

I think you really under estimate the staggering amount of corruption that was going on under the last government.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> All the parties will sit down and create a sensible road map. Then there will be an election - the result of which will be respected. How long for is another matter obviously.
> 
> 
> Bloody hell, you're an optimist. I hope you're right. 
> 
> Do you think the army will do anything about the constitution, take powers away from the voters? More appointments in a senate, for example? How's about the big event, will they stay in power to manage that first? How long will the army stay in power?


I have no idea what they will come up with.

But one thing that's for sure is this country needs to re-think it's base systems on a major scale. Public education, transport systems and networks, infrastructure, mass agricultural practices...the list goes on and on, need to be hauled into the 21st century.

If they do what they say (i.e get all the parties around a table and find the middle way) - personally I would expect at least a few good things from the next government.

To do things properly will take time, and 1-2 years before a new election would be reasonable.

----------


## Bettyboo

^

_this country needs to re-think it's base systems on a major scale. Public education, transport systems and networks, infrastructure, mass agricultural practices...the list goes on and on, need to be hauled into the 21st century._

I'd agree with that. But, I don't agree that the army has any intent to follow those ideas; quite the opposite. They want nationalism, a strengthening of the patronage system, propaganda not education.




> I think you really under estimate the staggering amount of corruption that was going on under the last government.


I've never looked into the rice scheme, just presumed it was an average idea, not well thought through and badly (and corruptly) administered at every level.

I certainly agree that the last government was corrupt, but no more than any of the dem governments, Banharn's governments have been, for example. Hence why the patronage system needs totally revising, and not in the way the army intend...

----------


## hillbilly

The bamboo grapevine says that this time the 'govt' will pay the farmers. Next time back to world prices.

Maybe, my family will be paid soon, let's see.

----------


## baldrick

> Next time back to world prices.


I think a subsidy program that is not designed for the middlemen and also encourages high quality would be a good option

----------


## Bettyboo

> I think a subsidy program that is not designed for the middlemen and also encourages high quality would be a good option


The middlemen and their cut are certainly a massive problem, so anything that gets the farmer closer to the market price without some pu yai getting a new Benz, has to be good.

----------


## hillbilly

One of the main problems is that many families borrowed money from let's say less than the average banking standards. When many of them get paid they are still going to be in the red.

My family is excluded (they did not borrow that much me) because my sober BIL predicated this a long time a go.

Still sad for many families...

----------


## Bettyboo

^good point, Hillbilly - everyday the interest will be growing, horrible situation for those folks. The gvt bank has very cheap loans for farmers, luckily my FiL only uses that system.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> I think you really under estimate the staggering amount of corruption that was going on under the last government.
> 
> 
> I've never looked into the rice scheme, just presumed it was an average idea, not well thought through and badly (and corruptly) administered at every level.
> 
> I certainly agree that the last government was corrupt, but no more than any of the dem governments, Banharn's governments have been, for example. Hence why the patronage system needs totally revising, and not in the way the army intend...


 
Sorry Boo, but you really should go an look up the rice scam, sorry, scheme.

The government was trying to get a loan of over 2 TRILLION baht, so they could cover it over.  best estimates say the scheme has cost over 800 BILLION baht to the country.

On top of everything, they have probably done enough damage to the rice farming industry to cripple it for a few years.  Firstly there is (supposedly, cause I recon it will have been mostly nicked*) a huge stockpile of rice which nobody wants because it is too expensive (thats what happens when you pay over the odds), and secondly a LOT of farmers live on the brink.  They borrow money to buy the seed and fertilizer to plant.  When the sell the crop, they pay off the loans and interest, and borrow more money to pay for the next crop.  It all worked (handwavingly).  Last cycle they borrowed to plant, sold to the government -and did not get the money.  Interest kept piling on - some farmers killed themselves as a result of the debt.

The government f*cked their main supporters in furtherance to their gutting of the country.  Go read up.  It may offer you some insights into why the army took over.

Oh, and you might want to look up as to what happened to the huge budgets assigned for water management after the last big floods.  Thats all gone as well.

You really do need to stop thinking that the last mob are as big a set of thieves as the last losts.  Its like comparing a kid swiping a penny candy to armed bank robbery.





*Ok, never mind the off the top skimming on the big budgets, here is how the next level skimming goes.  Farmer sells crop to gov at 15K per tonne (which of course he does not get).  Best grade rice.  Storehouse says after two weeks that it is "spolied", sells to a middle man for 2K a tonne.  Middle man sells it on market at 7K a tonne, undercutting everyone.  Thats a 5K per tonne profit right there.

Everyboady makes.  Except of course the farmer and the country.

----------


## baldrick

> By trouble maker, you actually mean somebody who is doing


rambo sh1t that they learned from movies - and there has been thousands of them on both sides of the divide dressing up in their combat fashion and arming themselves with weapons and bombs and sallying forth to give themselves some stories to tell at their next drinking session




> the protests will grow


I think the majority will be heading home to plant rice - only the under employed will have the time to parade for the media and the attention will soon dwindle which will dissuade the attention seekers - no body will be looking at their facebook page or twitter feed

there has been a surge in "international freelance journalists" during this crisis - all trying to gain their moments in the spotlight





> everyday the interest will be growing


many had to borrow to start the last planting , from lees than reputable sources

----------


## Bettyboo

The rice scheme does sound like a disaster. 

That is no reason for a coup, however, that is a reason for an election. &, if need be, for prosecutions.

----------


## Bettyboo

> I think the majority will be heading home to plant rice - only the under employed will have the time to parade for the media and the attention will soon dwindle which will dissuade the attention seekers - no body will be looking at their facebook page or twitter feed


There are many types of protesters against this coup. The lot in Bkk today are not rice farmers... The academics arrested in CM are not rice farmers. The journalists called in for detention/questioning are not rice farmers.

----------


## baldrick

> for an election.


it was interesting to see the graphic before which showed the constituencies which were not PT or dem

hopefully some will seize the opportunity





> The academics arrested in CM are not rice farmers.  The journalists called in for detention/questioning are not rice  farmers.


they hardly made up the majority though

----------


## Bettyboo

No, in the case of this coup, I don't think any one group will dominate the anti-coup demonstrations. There's no majority, as such, just groups of Thais who don't want a coup - the demonstrations are growing, who knows how big they will become? I suspect that lots of small demonstrations, a few hundred people here, maybe a thousand people there, spread around the country will be very powerful and difficult for the junta to control.

The majority was the election winners, so talking about the will of the majority is all rather moot when minority groups don't allow elections...

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> 
> I should imagine Prayuth will rapidly understand the nature of his self imposed task when he is told that his command to pay the farmers what they are owed is not possible. The wheels of that scam well and truly fell off when the markets declined to buy into the debt. The losses are immense and without state borrowings to fund them there is nothing in the current budget to pay the farmers.
> 
> 
> 
> Think I read elsewhere that the funds have already been arranged.
> 
> ...


I know of no government department funded bank in a capitalist society in the entire world which holds ' reserves ' to the extent of that amount. It will have to borrowed against the markets at whatever rate they can get. The sum mentioned is probably not even half the losses incurred. Either way, it'll be funded by the tax payer which will translate to more debt. There are no winners except those who benefited from the scam.

The return to world prices, as mooted, is inevitable but the debt burden of subsistence farmers can only grow.

Supply and demand in the market has to be controlled but not through intervention by stockpiling when demand is weaker. That model is inefficient and distorts prices. The current mechanism adopted by developed societies wishing to bring stability to the supply is subsidy not to grow when forecasted demand is weaker. That is difficult when the supply is so fragmented as it is with Thailand with its thousands of rice farmers. In their case they need middlemen to manage the market supply and it's organization. Essentially, it is inevitable the sharecroppers and small holdings will be absorbed into large agri/industrial combines who will dispense with middlemen and the industry can progress from its current feudal base. The trajectory is inevitable and as banks begin to foreclose on debts the process will accelerate. Thailand is no more immune from the shift to urbanization than any other country was in the industrial revolution.

It's the future.

----------


## baldrick

> The majority


was lusting after the high prices promised for any old rice - of which they rarely recieved more that 11k per tonne

and now they are struggling to pay the bills because of economic guru takky's stupidity

they may yet see things in a different light




> Either way, it'll be funded by the tax payer


which was what fueled the numbers for sutep the scumbag

----------


## Bettyboo

> which was what fueled the numbers for sutep the scumbag


Are you sure? It's hard to say, but they mostly looked like Southerners who were part of his patronage network. But, like a lot of these protests, the people are mixed and come for different reasons.

I wonder if suthep is still in detention or has been let out? AO seems to think he's still in detention, maybe so. & abhisit, why was he detained in the first place, what part has he in negotiations? He does seem to be liked my prayuth...

----------


## terry57

> This is a Thai internal event...it's not the first time, nor do I believe it will be the last.
> 
> As a foreigner, you have no voice. Let the Thai sort it out. You may not agree with the result, but it's their country, not yours.



Exactly what I have been saying all along .

Farang should simply stay well away from it. None of their business. 

So many speculate but that's easy to do.  Be much more interesting if the shit hits the fan and then they can post about something that has actually happened. 

No, too easy that innit.

----------


## Bettyboo

Welcome back to the thread, tewwy - you don't see any irony in your comments at all, do you?

----------


## baldrick

> None of their business.


it is up to you if you wish to abide by the archaic boundries defined by the warlords of the past

but the internet is now here and long may it continue - it is not an easily controlled propaganda channel - 

fiefdoms are a thing of the past

----------


## terry57

> As the head of the family how should I reply when my wife or 50/50 daughter asks me what do I think? They want to know why I sit by and do nothing.



A tad emotional input there HB. 

What do they expect you to Do ??  You can do nothing as its not your problem is it.

You may live here but you will always be " The Farang "

----------


## jamescollister

Guess it's all in the armies hands right now, if they do the right thing, play fair, they may pull it off.
Not liking what I see here, village is a ghost town, women and kids only, border troops have pulled out, nearest police {2 man post} on the main road, deserted.
Went to town, Buntharik, yesterday, not one uniform, green or brown to be seen, normal road blocks, police and border troops, gone.
Am a farang, kept in the dark, but know this was commie country, still shooting in the 80s, weapons stashed in the mountains, Thai and Lao side.
Army is afraid to go after the illegal loggers, never mind guerrillas, things could get hairy.
Last coup, army was told keep out and they did, no trouble, this time who knows, fingers crossed, problems stay in that other place, BKK, another country, this is Issan/Lao. Maybe Thailand, but no one likes the south. Jim

----------


## terry57

> Originally Posted by hillbilly
> 
> 50/50 daughter
> 
> 
> This further complicates the 'it's their country, leave them to it' principle, of course.
> 
> Things aren't as clear cut as that for people who, along with a Thai parent, are raising kids in Thailand.



The bottom line is that you know where you stand regards your rights in Thailand as a foreigner.

Whether you have ten kids or none you have very few rights, nothing has changed and most probably never will.  

You entered Thailand, married and raised kids knowing this so accept it.  

No good bitching about that fact now.

----------


## baldrick

> village is a ghost town


they have likely pissed off to BKK to grab the free 250 baht to go home  :Smile:

----------


## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by hillbilly
> 
> 
>  
> As the head of the family how should I reply when my wife or 50/50 daughter asks me what do I think? They want to know why I sit by and do nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> A tad emotional input there HB. 
> ...


I'm a farang and it's my home and it is my problem. 
Things go bad, will send the wife and kids back to OZ, but I'll be staying, my home my farm, my kids future. Jim

----------


## terry57

> That is very true, We know nothing.



Yet a few posters think they know it all.

Its like the farang who joined in the protests , should of been deported.

----------


## terry57

> Wrong every time about what?
> 
> Is this just me clashing with your ideologies whatever they may be,or do you have some facts to back-up your bullshit?




I rest my case regards the fanatical element in the room.

Rub them up the wrong way regards their ideologies and they burst into tears.

----------


## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by jamescollister
> 
> village is a ghost town
> 
> 
> they have likely pissed off to BKK to grab the free 250 baht to go home


 More likely gone illegal logging, no soldiers, no police or road blocks, open season at 10,000 a day. Jim

----------


## Seekingasylum

With all due respect to you Jim, it's your family's farm and not yours. Farming is not an occupation currently permitted to farang. As long as you can qualify for residence according to whatever tariff they choose to impose then you may stay. Given Thaksin's potent manipulation of nationalism and his dislike for the farang which led to a radical hike in that tariff I am fairly certain the precedent has not been lost on his successors when they next look to raise revenues. Captive market, you see and we all know how the Thai like to milk them.

I am under no illusions about governments and their attitudes to migration. Look at Britain and their disgraceful taxation on foreign spouses etc. 

The trick is to ensure a plan B at all times.

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> 
> That is very true, We know nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet a few posters think they know it all.
> ...


Oh you mean that superrich Indian guy who joined Suthep and the yellowshirts. Yingluck wanted to deport him but the yellow slime wouldn't let her government.

----------


## Moonraker

I know plenty of people, Thai people, that are relieved that at last something has been done. These are nearly all people that have been seriously affected by the ongoing by the ongoing protests.

Business has been fucking atrocious for many. My wife and I are hanging on by a thread and close to calling it a day where our business is concerned. We are friendly with most of our competitors and they too are struggling, with at least one having to close altogether. None are doing well, most are on the brink and none can continue indefinitely. 

Our suppliers are also struggling and some have let staff go. We use free-lance technicians and usually we would have to book in a job days in advance as technicians will already have other jobs. They are now calling us to see if we have work for them.

What many people don't know is that the PDRC were directly forcing some companies to close by sending people to their offices. These were, of course, mainly Shinwatra companies. Sure, the Shinawatras are arse-holes and I have no sympathy for them but the staff were mostly just ordinary folk with families to feed and bills to pay. The closure of these companies also affected the customers and business associates of these companies. What were the police doing about this? Yep, you guessed it, they were doing absolutely fuckall.

I imagine that a fair few farmers will also be grateful to the military, assuming they will be paid as promised.

How much longer would this continue? How many more final 'victory days' would Suthep announce before actually calling it a day. How many more business would go to the wall before something is done? For how much longer would many of the farmers remain practically destitute because their government had not paid them THEIR money as promised.

It's very easy for the keyboard warriors to say "Coups are bad, Mmmmkay" but that is a very narrow minded and somewhat ignorant view. Of course coups are never a good option but to many it is the ONLY option. What else are we supposed to do, wait for the democratic process to work it out? Yeah, because that was really working wasn't it?

Either way, what's done is done. We just need to hope they are genuine and do not turn out to be despots.

----------


## terry57

> Things go bad, will send the wife and kids back to OZ, but I'll be staying, my home my farm, my kids future. Jim




Considering the amount of farangs living full time in Thailand, own condos, married Thai ladies, raised kids and have businesses in Thailand do you really feel that things will get so bad you will need to pack yourself and your family back to your home country ???

Of course not Jim.    :Confused: 

Its emotional posts like this that are just plain silly. 

Some of the guys post like Thailand is Afghanistan or some other fukin lawless shit hole. 

Christ,   get a friggin grip on reality.

----------


## Merrimack

Why didn't the military step in and support Yingluck before? Why? Because the yellows are the violent scum of Thailand, not the reds. The military is yellow. Now the arseholes want to say its the reds who are violent. BS. They yellows always were. The military is okay with crushing the poor but not the BKKers. I'll are with you about the peace but the military should be jailing yellows and Yingluck should be free. It's not so simple as you say that people who are against the coups don't get it. Enjoy the 'peace'. I hope it lasts but don't complain if it doesn't. Thais shouldn't die in the streets for your happiness.And they shouldn't lose their freedom and rights for your happiness either.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Why didn't the military step in and support Yingluck before? Why?


There have been some excellent debates on the likes of the BBC by Thais who have expertise and decades of experience with these questions, they don't like or support Thaksin, but they are clear: the army and PADites have planned all of this together. It is a power grab for the same of controlling the event and remaining in power thereafter. PT are no good, and Thai politics needs to move beyond them, but to focus on them and ignore the bigger picture and truths is ridiculous.

There have been many links posted to these interviews where experts have explained the details. Here's one where the US ambassador says the coup will further hurt business:

BBC World Service - World Business Report, Thailand Military Coup

I can understand how people who are struggling to get by just want to get beyond the impasse and earn a living; rightly so. That doesn't change the political dynamics however, it is the underlying reason.

The sooner the succession takes place and these things can be out in the open and dealt with the better.

----------


## terry57

> Oh you mean that super rich Indian guy who joined Suthep and the yellowshirts. 
> 
> Yingluck wanted to deport him but the yellow slime wouldn't let her government.



Ok, I do agree with you entirely on your post and thanks for bringing this up.

The Indian turd had lived in Thailand for 30 or more odd years but had never bothered to gain Thai residency so was in all intent and purpose a foreigner.  

As I have mentioned before if one is not a Thai one is always viewed as a foreigner regardless of how long one has lived in Country and as a foreigner one should always stay well away from Thai politics.   

The silly tosser should of had more smarts than to go public and run his mouth when he never had protection as a Thai citizen.

Should of been deported for being so stupid. End Of. 

Christ, I have seen some real retarded round eyes down at the Lumpini protest sight. 

Fanatics usually supporting Thai wife's.  Total wankers.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Fair post Moonraker and one anchored in reality, rather than silly rhetoric from insignificant idiots.

The problem vis-a-vis the farmers and what you refer to as "THEIR" money is that in reality it never existed and was a hopelessly unrealistic promise. That it is to be paid nevertheless for political reasons simply means that all other Thai tax payers who would never have benefited from the scam will now be expected to pay the debt. The losses are huge and bound to have an impact upon budgets elsewhere.

The rice scam was an utter disaster for Thailand and equivalent to the sub prime fiasco in the US etc. Whereas the US could socialize the debt and protect the banking system, Thailand is going  to suffer the consequences for years to come.

----------


## Moonraker

> The military is okay with crushing the poor but not the BKKers.


Yeah, I expect those poor farmers will feel very crushed if they finally get the money they have been waiting so long for.

----------


## jamescollister

> With all due respect to you Jim, it's your family's farm and not yours. Farming is not an occupation currently permitted to farang. As long as you can qualify for residence according to whatever tariff they choose to impose then you may stay. Given Thaksin's potent manipulation of nationalism and his dislike for the farang which led to a radical hike in that tariff I am fairly certain the precedent has not been lost on his successors when they next look to raise revenues. Captive market, you see and we all know how the Thai like to milk them.
> 
> I am under no illusions about governments and their attitudes to migration. Look at Britain and their disgraceful taxation on foreign spouses etc. 
> 
> The trick is to ensure a plan B at all times.


Hear what you say, but no one owns anything in this world, we just get to use it for a short while. 
Life is for living, not worrying, make B plans yes, but live the moment, things go bad, they go bad, that's life.
Throw me out of Thailand, Laos a bike ride away, if everything was easy, it wouldn't be interesting. Jim

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Farang should simply stay well away from it. None of their business. 
> 
> .


Terry, you don't really think anyone from Teakdoor would go and actually protest do you? Notwithstanding all the fine talk, they aren't going to leave their keyboards.

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> The military is okay with crushing the poor but not the BKKers.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I expect those poor farmers will feel very crushed if they finally get the money they have been waiting so long for.


I'm sure they will and they'll get lies with it as to why it couldn't have been done before.  Even with the coup the poor may benefit as they did with the rise of Thaksin. Their plight seems to get more attention these days. No matter what you think of them, you can thank the Shinawatra family for that.

----------


## terry57

> Why didn't the military step in and support Yingluck before? Why? Because the yellows are the violent scum of Thailand, not the reds. 
> 
> The military is yellow. Now the arseholes want to say its the reds who are violent. BS.
> 
> The yellows always were.




Mate, you seriously need to reassess your post.  


All I am going to add is that in 2010 the Reds burned down half of Bangkok.   :Confused: 

You can't pen this stuff without thinking about what the come back will be.

Both sides Red and Yellow can be equally violent when it kicks off.

Its human nature and not unusual.

----------


## Moonraker

> I'm sure they will and they'll get lies with it as to why it couldn't have been done before.  .



Lies? What lies do you expect them to be told?

----------


## koman

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> The military is okay with crushing the poor but not the BKKers.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I expect those poor farmers will feel very crushed if they finally get the money they have been waiting so long for.


The question is who will buy this debt and at what price?   Thailand could end up in a "Greek" type of situation paying absurd interest rates on it's sovereign debt.   All that foreign exchange surplus they had a few years ago is now turning into a debt crisis.    They can take some comfort in the fact that they have not really managed things much worse than the US and EU I suppose..... :Confused:

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> Why didn't the military step in and support Yingluck before? Why?
> 
> 
> There have been some excellent debates on the likes of the BBC by Thais who have expertise and decades of experience with these questions, they don't like or support Thaksin, but they are clear: the army and PADites have planned all of this together. It is a power grab for the same of controlling the event and remaining in power thereafter. PT are no good, and Thai politics needs to move beyond them, but to focus on them and ignore the bigger picture and truths is ridiculous.
> 
> There have been many links posted to these interviews where experts have explained the details. Here's one where the US ambassador says the coup will further hurt business:
> 
> ...



If the Thai generals are smart, they should have predicted the reds moving into the city and violence, unless they really thought Yingluck would somehow get it under control. It has to be one of those two or they planned this. They could have stopped the economic problems and stress early on by just going after the yellows but they chose not to. They let Thailand crumble by not supporting Yingluck, by  bad judgement (Someone should be court-martialled) or for a straight out conspiracy.

----------


## Bettyboo

^ the fact is that the army want to be seen as a saviour, they are part of this, they have planned it with suthep...




> The problem vis-a-vis the farmers and what you refer to as "THEIR" money is that in reality it never existed and was a hopelessly unrealistic promise. That it is to be paid nevertheless for political reasons simply means that all other Thai tax payers who would never have benefited from the scam will now be expected to pay the debt. The losses are huge and bound to have an impact upon budgets elsewhere.
> 
> The rice scam was an utter disaster for Thailand and equivalent to the sub prime fiasco in the US etc. Whereas the US could socialize the debt and protect the banking system, Thailand is going to suffer the consequences for years to come.


Firstly, the rice scheme is not the reason for the coup; the army have no interest in helping the farmers or anyone else outside of their group.

Next, Thailand has become extremely rich from farming and other industries, the % of wealth coming from farmers into Bkk is very much greater than the % given back in services or support (numerous international surveys make this statement) of these farmers (throughout the nation, north, south and central).

The rice scheme was badly implemented and corrupt, but it was not equivalent or worse than the sub-prime corruption in the US; not even close; you are lost in hyperbole.

It was bad, and the farmers need paying. The economy, due to suthep's demonstration and general political turmoil is in bad shape - both need sorting out, farmers need paying and small/mid sized businesses need the chance to work without demonstrations and political groups adversely affecting them. Greedy politicians on all sides, supported by greedy coup generals and greedy law makers, etc, have damaged the nation and everyday people who just wanna earn a living. All of this mess is founded on one subject, one place, which cannot easily be discussed, but is what the army and their coup support...

Hopefully, short term, things will get back to normal and the economy improve. But, the underlying problem exists and the army will (and are) make it worse...

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## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> 
> 
> The problem vis-a-vis the farmers and what you refer to as "THEIR" money is that in reality it never existed and was a hopelessly unrealistic promise.
> 
> 
> So what?


Well, if the promise was made in order to secure a government which then later proved to be a confidence trick costing billions of baht loss to the Thai tax payer, some might say that the process by which the scam was perpetrated was fraudulent to the core and those responsible should be removed. 

Just for a start.....

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## Bettyboo

^ that's for the electorate to decide, not you and your hyperbole or suthep who is equally as corrupt as any politician in Thailand, nor the junta...

Nice effort in turning this coup thread into a "But, Thaksin..." thread.

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## Moonraker

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by thegent
> ...


Well, yeah.

I was more putting myself in the shoes (or should I say flip-flops) of those farmers. I bet they couldn't give a flying one as to where the money is coming from. 

One would hope that the whole rice scandal will make people think twice before falling for such blatant vote-buying policies in the future. I wont hold my breath though, the Shinawatras or similar will get voted in again at some point to keep the cycle going.

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## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure they will and they'll get lies with it as to why it couldn't have been done before.  .
> 
> 
> 
> Lies? What lies do you expect them to be told?


The lie that Yingluck screwed them over. That's not the truth. If the yellows didn't shut down so many offices the payments would have been dealt with.

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## Merrimack

Got something new for you. Just found it. It's old but relevant and some might like...




"
*Uploaded on Jun 16, 2011* 
                        Thailand News http://www.bangkoktimesonline.com

General Prayuth goes on tv and tells voters to vote for Democrats to safeguard the monarchy.
Army  chief Prayuth Chan-ocha has given the green light to army officials to  launch a war of words with the Pheu Thai Party's politicians who  criticise the army's role.

At the same time, he has told  high-ranking army officers he is ready to quit if the political pressure  upon him becomes too great.

Yingluck's picture circulates social media.
Students posessed by spirits.

Morning  Focus is presented by Pichai Chuensuksawadi, Voranai Vanijaka, Patchari  Raksawong,  Arglit Boonyai and Dolsinee Kritayapimonporn. Script  writer-Producer - Nopnan Ariyawongmanee.

For more Bangkok news and videos, visit http://www.bangkoktimesonline.com"

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## Moonraker

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Merrimack
> ...


Are you fucking serious? Is it Suthep's fault that the rice is sitting unsold and rotting in barns around the country?

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## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by jamescollister
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Things go bad, will send the wife and kids back to OZ, but I'll be staying, my home my farm, my kids future. Jim
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Terry live in bandit country, land border Lao, Emerald triangle, drug smugglers, poachers, illegal logging etc. fire fights in the jungle, not Pattaya. No police only soldiers, village is safe, rest of the place is lawless.
People do wrong and it's a 9 mil in the head, can't call 000 for help, just as bad as the Camdo border, but no press. 
Pill boxes on the only road, that's reality, but I love it. Jim

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## terry57

> Hear what you say, but no one owns anything in this world, we just get to use it for a short while. 
> 
> Throw me out of Thailand, Laos a bike ride away, if everything was easy, it wouldn't be interesting. Jim


Jim,

You're one of the good guys so I'm not getting on your case but at the same time you need to get real world ideas and forget about the " What Ever".


In Australia I have rights as a citizen, I own my own house, no fuker can take my house nor kick me out of Australia.  I choose not to spend to much time there as I much prefer Thailand.

I can say what I want about the Political landscape in Australia not that I bother much simply because its as fuked up as Thai Politics. 

Anyway in Thailand I am nothing except a visitor even though I choose to spend most of my time here.

I rent an apartment, have money in the bank and I'm totally self funded. 

I could buy an apartment, get married, have ten kids and a nice motor but  _would still be nothing in the eyes of the Thais._ 

We are Farang.  Being farang equals " no rights ".   

Accept it as a given. 

PS, Hope you never need to return to Australia unless you have a heap of money or you will be living at the rubbish tip.

I shit you not.

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## pseudolus

> The lie that Yingluck screwed them over. That's not the truth. If the yellows didn't shut down so many offices the payments would have been dealt with.


Clueless. Absolutely clueless. 

1) They made up a ruse to win the gullible bumpkin votes. This included paying more than market share for rice. 
2) Their thinking was that being Mr Charlie Big Potato of the world rice market, Thailand could hold back rice, manipulate the rice price, and cream it in,doubtlessly pocketing the difference (their share). 
3) They took delivery of the rice, and started to hold back. 
4) Vietnam and India flooded the market with their rice to help supply, and the price remained constant. 
5) They had already sold rice, the money they doubtless pocketed as their tea money. The rest of the rice started to rot, as every little bit they sold was sold at a thumping loss. 
6) They had no money. They blew it all on their daft election winning policies, and pocketed the rest. 

Your version of reality is so far off, it beggars belief.

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## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Moonraker
> ...


Last report I heard, the rice wasn't rotting as you say for one thing. And millions of tons were sold by Yingluck's government despite blockages of most government offices that deal with finances and the rest of it. I'm not saying the rice scheme was perfect but dealing with the issues that came from it was impossible while the yellow assholes blocked offices and screwed with the government. All the loses to Thailand's economy and yours as well can be attributed to the yellows shutting down Bangkok. That's the way many people see it. Are you going to blame Yingluck's government for your business problems?

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## Bettyboo

> 1) They made up a ruse to win the gullible bumpkin votes.


Intelligent debate is rather lost in the first line...

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## Moonraker

> Are you going to blame Yingluck's government for your business problems?



Too fucking right I am, why wouldn't I? She and her cronies are part of the problem after all, along with Suthep et al.

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## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> ^ that's for the electorate to decide, not you and your hyperbole or suthep who is equally as corrupt as any politician in Thailand, nor the junta...
> 
> Nice effort in turning this coup thread into a "But, Thaksin..." thread.
> 
> 
> And deny you the opportunity to post more simplistic,banal gibberish? 
> ...


Perhaps to you, but it's the basic premise for most of the world, including Thailand.

Thais want to vote, suthep, the dems and the army stopped that opportunity. A failure of the rice scheme, and the corruption within it, seem like good reasons for voters to look elsewhere, so a shame that suthep and abhisit didn't lead their party towards a winning election by developing policies and making a stand against corruption either as an election promise or when they were last in power. If the dems had done their job as an opposition then they would likely be in power now and all this nonsense would have been avoided... The fact remains that suthep and abhisit along with the rest of the PADites and dems have NEVER developed a party with policies that was against corruption - they have had every opportunity since 2006, and they were in power for a couple of years and had the opportunity to lead the way into reforms - they did not...

I would be very happy to see PT superseded, but that means that the dems, PADites and military have to move forward too. This coup, the hammer upon free speech, the arrests and detentions, are a backwards step.

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## 9999

> Firstly, the rice scheme is not the reason for the coup; the army have no interest in helping the farmers or anyone else outside of their group.


You're losing it Betty. Before you were saying you knew nothing about the rice pledge. Now you're telling us all about it. Funny actually, with all the red rhetoric you keep on with, that you would not know much about the rice scheme. If the army have no interest in paying off the farmers then why do they start getting paid as of tomorrow???  :Confused:

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## 9999

> Terry live in bandit country, land border Lao, Emerald triangle, drug smugglers, poachers, illegal logging etc. fire fights in the jungle, not Pattaya. No police only soldiers, village is safe, rest of the place is lawless.


Talk it up Jim. I like your posts and all but c'mon man. You're always going on about how you leave in this kind of lawless no mans land. I been up your way and it's not the wild west dude. The bandits left years ago. There's a bit of logging going on but its hardly a war zone like you make it sound.

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## Bettyboo

^ tewwy, when are you gonna get it, I've only said it a 100+ times: I do not like PT, even if I could, I wouldn't vote for them. But, I respect the people's choice to vote. That's it. Simples... I respect the majority who voted for a government to have that mandate respected, and protest when it's taken away. I don't respect the PADites, who formed their own party and got about (was it less than?) 5% of the vote, to destroy democracy through protests. Even worse, stopping an election, that is completely unacceptable...




> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> Firstly, the rice scheme is not the reason for the coup; the army have no interest in helping the farmers or anyone else outside of their group.
> 
> 
> You're losing it Betty. Before you were saying you knew nothing about the rice pledge. Now you're telling us all about it. Funny actually, with all the red rhetoric you keep on with, that you would not know much about the rice scheme. If the army have no interest in paying off the farmers then why do they start getting paid as of tomorrow???


No, I'm aware of it and the basic details, I have not read up in detail.

Do you think this coup is because of the rice scheme, 9999? That is my point, it is not.

The army want to be seen as a saviour, it's propaganda, and it's good too. At any point during the last few months they could have used the same influence to help the PT government to pay the farmers - and they should have done; paying the farmers was vital. But, instead, they used it as a political tool to hurt PT. yes, that tool was fashioned for them by PT, but the PADites and army were delighted to use it...

This coup is not about paying the farmers. It is about the thing we can't talk about, and it's a political struggle against opposing groups, and it's about social disparity to many too. It is not about the rich pledge/scheme...

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## 9999

> Do you think this coup is because of the rice scheme, 9999? That is my point, it is not.


No, my point is that for a resident expert on the plight of the red shirts, I'd have thought you'd know a bit more about the rice pledge and its implications.

So if the army has no interest in paying the farmers, why are they paying them tomorrow? I mean it at least must be in their best interests to help them to serve their own ends (propaganda) ... so what about the reds? Was the rice pledge not propaganda vote buying from the reds? Why are the army bad for coming through on a bribe for the masses that the reds tried to deliver on and failed? 

Your line here is futile dude.

So BB, if you're so passionate about this, enough so to fly in the face of Thai law to voice your opinion, why have you not 'read up on' the rice disaster???  :Confused:

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## pseudolus

> Intelligent debate is rather lost in the first line...





> No, I'm aware of it and the basic details, I have not read up in detail.


 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Sort of sums it up really.

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## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> Firstly, the rice scheme is not the reason for the coup; the army have no interest in helping the farmers or anyone else outside of their group.
> 
> 
> You're losing it Betty. Before you were saying you knew nothing about the rice pledge. Now you're telling us all about it. Funny actually, with all the red rhetoric you keep on with, that you would not know much about the rice scheme. If the army have no interest in paying off the farmers then why do they start getting paid as of tomorrow???


Gosh it's so easy to come up with that money. So fast when Thailand is in so much trouble. Pathetic. The truth will never be know with the yellow-gloved hands all over everything once again.

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## terry57

> Are you fucking serious? Is it Suthep's fault that the rice is sitting unsold and rotting in barns around the country?



Jesus mate,

The rice was sitting rotting for ages before this shit kicked off,  you are spot on with that.  

Once again the poster is pushing shit up hill posting that bolliks. 

Real mad shit innit.

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## pseudolus

> Gosh it's so easy to come up with that money. So fast when Thailand is in so much trouble. Pathetic. The truth will never be know with the yellow-gloved hands all over everything once again.


Insanity rules. My word - Take your red specs off, stop listening to the words of the local Red village chief, and see the facts. insane.

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## nidhogg

Interesting thread.  Boo seems to be ploughing a lonely furrow though.

I suppose the question here is :what price democracy?

Boo argues from  a position that nothing, simply nothing is more important than democracy.

He bolsters that by downplaying the corruption, and harping on about the democratic process and its usurpation by the evil padites.

Others seem more "pragmatic".  Me?  Also a pragmatist.  Democracy is great, but sometimes, sometimes, it is simply more expensive than it is worth.

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## 9999

> Gosh it's so easy to come up with that money. So fast when Thailand is in so much trouble. Pathetic. The truth will never be know with the yellow-gloved hands all over everything once again.


Wait a sec. Betty is accusing the army / reds / establishment / w/e of using the rice pledge as a political tool. He thinks they should have bailed out the reds while they were in govt because they could have.

So what was the rice pledge all about? If it was not initially a political tool by the reds, that blew up in their face, then I'd like to know what you guys think it was.

And now the army are doing the right thing by paying the farmers, and ofc its used against them. Cant win with these people.  :rofl:  at calling out the army for using the rice pledge to look like saviours when the reds were trying (and failed) to do the exact same thing.

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## Dandyhole

This thread reads like an election campaign voicing all the election participants different points of view, to win over joe publics vote.

Great I've made my mind up who I will vote for and now go to vote.............oh!

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## nevets

BettyBoo, there are a lot of posters I like to read but you are the one I think makes a good post and I agree with your words on this thread.

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## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> Do you think this coup is because of the rice scheme, 9999? That is my point, it is not.
> 
> 
> No, my point is that for a resident expert on the plight of the red shirts, I'd have thought you'd know a bit more about the rice pledge and its implications.
> 
> So if the army has no interest in paying the farmers, why are they paying them tomorrow? I mean it at least must be in their best interests to help them to serve their own ends (propaganda) ... so what about the reds? Was the rice pledge not propaganda vote buying from the reds? Why are the army bad for coming through on a bribe for the masses that the reds tried to deliver on and failed? 
> 
> ...


I am not an expert on the redshirt movement, why would I be?

PT as a political party did a pretty bad job of the rich scheme. The army are not a political party, they are an instrument of government. Thus, your basic argument is nonsensical. I agree that PT are no good, but they were voted in, and it is election time, so they can be voted out again - easy.

9999, I have read the basic details of the rice scheme, but have not followed the ongoing mess and cannot follow every detail of every part of Thai politics. I probably know as much about the rice scheme as 50% or more of the posters in this thread - when I say I haven't read up about something, I mean that I have not spent hours and gotten a full or near to full understanding. I suspect, for many on this thread, that knowing about and reading up is linked to a single source article. My reply was to Nidhogg, who I suspect when he says he has read up on something, he really has and spent considerable time doing so, thus my answer within the context of his post. With all the vitriol about this scheme, maybe my reading has been lacking, and I will spend some time on it over the coming week.

But, this coup is not about the rice pledge.

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## Moonraker

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Moonraker
> ...


So then rice has been sold? What happened to the money?

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## leemo

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> Are you going to blame Yingluck's government for your business problems?
> 
> 
> 
> Too fucking right I am, why wouldn't I? She and her cronies are part of the problem after all, along with Suthep et al.


Everyone is part of the problem, as is the traditional Thai mindset, but right now it's the nice people with guns imposing their solution.

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## Moonraker

> But, this coup is not about the rice pledge.


You're right, the Coup is not about the rich pledge. But the rice pledge does highlight the incompetence/greed of the ousted government and it is that which resulted in a coup being necessary.

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## Dandyhole

^^ Agreed, the man with the guns sets the agenda

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## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> Gosh it's so easy to come up with that money. So fast when Thailand is in so much trouble. Pathetic. The truth will never be know with the yellow-gloved hands all over everything once again.
> 
> 
> Wait a sec. Betty is accusing the army / reds / establishment / w/e of using the rice pledge as a political tool. He thinks they should have bailed out the reds while they were in govt because they could have.
> 
> So what was the rice pledge all about? If it was not initially a political tool by the reds, that blew up in their face, then I'd like to know what you guys think it was.
> 
> And now the army are doing the right thing by paying the farmers, and ofc its used against them. Cant win with these people.  at calling out the army for using the rice pledge to look like saviours when the reds were trying (and failed) to do the exact same thing.


Why was it so hard for Yingluck's government to do anything? No money or offices closed and courts tying her hands. Now the military can pay instantly. Total Bullshit. I'm glad they are paying but if the yellow scum in the streets and the courts let the government do their job, the problems wouldn't be there. You always think there is this great crime involved. Do you think Yingluck would do something that would keep her from her family, her son? You people are warped and stupid. We are back to the yellow abusers controlling the government and creating whatever truths they want. It's the truth.  Say all the shit you want but right now yellow slim is seeping into all the government orifices and it will spill out yellow lies once again.

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## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> 
> But, this coup is not about the rice pledge.
> 
> 
> You're right, the Coup is not about the rich pledge. But the rice pledge does highlight the incompetence/greed of the ousted government and it is that which resulted in a coup being necessary.


Would a democrat government been couped in the same circumstances?

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## leemo

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> ...


Fair enough, but I don't think either of these two coups were intended to rid the country of corruption or to protect the democratic process. 

On the contrary, both were to do the precise opposite, restore the pre-Thaksin regime with the people remaining ignorant and subservient to the same thieves and looters. 

The cunning plan is they're marketing it as 'legal'.

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## Moonraker

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> ...


Perhaps not.

The democrats were not in government though, so what's your point?

And for the record I don;t think the dems come out of this smelling of roses. If the opposition wasn't so weak we may not be in this mess.

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## Bettyboo

> Boo argues from a position that nothing, simply nothing is more important than democracy.


I am an idealist, that is true. I am willing to justify an assault on democracy if it moves society forward; by that, I mean more opportunity for everyone, better education and open dialog, increased accountability and transparency, etc. What I am saying is, neither the dems time in government, the PADites nor this army group have any intention or showed any intention at any time of doing that. If they had, then maybe I would support them. If suthep was an honest career politician who was seeking to stop corruption then I might support him. If abhisit's government had made a start on improving the mechanisms of governance when they were in power then maybe I would support the dems. If the army, this group now, had developed a constitution that empowers the people, develops education, etc, then I would support them.

How quickly you forget, abhisit's government, the coup government too, closed down social dialog, cut back on education, were highly corrupt and changed the political system solely for their benefit...




> Wait a sec. Betty is accusing the army / reds / establishment / w/e of using the rice pledge as a political tool. He thinks they should have bailed out the reds while they were in govt because they could have.


That is not the case. You are taking my words from one post and using them in a different argument with a different meaning and purpose. I don't think they should 'bail out' anybody - I think they should do their duty as a department which is under the control of government. At any time they could have stopped suthep and his mob, helping the economy, that's what they should have done, but they acted politically instead, so they encouraged and supported suthep's demonstrations. The army are part of a larger group who have great power and stopped the government from using banks (you may remember the case a few months ago) to pay the farmers; the same banks that are now paying the farmers - it is not a new idea, it was proposed by PT months ago.

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## nidhogg

> You people are warped and stupid.


Cheers for that.  Get back to my crayons and comics shall I?

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## Merrimack

TD member have their reasons for supporting who they support. It really has nothing to do with facts or any common right. Some people make money from the yellows, some from the reds, some choose Thai Buddhism and royality and others choose human rights and dignity. And there are other reasons, some government benefit farang meth addict and others don't. Some government oppress and keep the pervs happy with hookers. Some farangs just pick a group a friends and go with that group. No matter what evidence you put here no one is going to believe your side. This is like abortion to many. They've made their choice and that's it right or wrong or fact or fiction. And some don't care at all and just want to be guests in a strange land. Whatever the case, you as a farang are a nobody because you are not Thai so you all can fuck off. Well, that's what a Thai with a western upbringing would say.

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## pseudolus

> Why was it so hard for Yingluck's government to do anything? No money or offices closed and courts tying her hands. Now the military can pay instantly.


The Army used the cash that was being put aside to construct useless unwanted infrastructure projects in the boonies whose sole purpose was to line the pockets of the red village chiefs in reward for their obedience. 

Lots of cash about, but your beloved yingluck was going to spend it else where with no concern for the farmers topping themselves and starving.

----------


## Seekingasylum

No, not me. Perhaps Tax did.

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## nidhogg

> How quickly you forget, abhisit's government, the coup government too, closed down social dialog, cut back on education, were highly corrupt and changed the political system solely for their benefit...


Cut back on education?  Seriously?  Boo.  Go look at the National Research Universities initiative of the democrats that was killed by the Yingluck government.  Go look at why the Thaksin gov refused to provide increased fund to the RGJ because of comments by one academic critical of him.  Go look at why the Yingluck government cut 30% of the NSTDA budget.

The abhisit gov was pro education, Thaksin and PT were pro (their) business ONLY.

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## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Moonraker
> ...


I think you have grasped my point

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> Why was it so hard for Yingluck's government to do anything? No money or offices closed and courts tying her hands. Now the military can pay instantly.
> 
> 
> *The Army used the cash that was being put aside to construct useless unwanted infrastructure projects in the boonies whose sole purpose was to line the pockets of the red village chiefs in reward for their obedience.* 
> 
> Lots of cash about, but your beloved yingluck was going to spend it else where with no concern for the farmers topping themselves and starving.


Really? post the link or be an ass.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by terry57
> ...


huh...sold? where? I.m sure they sold some, a bit, not much, otherwise it was stored till it started to degrade under traditional Thai management. There is still some, like millions of tons, that wasn't nicked and sold under the counter while it was still fresh and worth something. 

The gov's blunder was to assume Thai rice was dear to the world and could be used as leverage to raise the international price by cornering the market. Ego at its best. But India and Vietnam moved quickly to meet demand, leaving mountains of white Thai stuff to waste away. 

By honouring the rice pledge, our glorious leader could well be backing himself into a corner.

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## Bettyboo

> But the rice pledge does highlight the incompetence/greed of the ousted government and it is that which resulted in a coup being necessary.


Yes to the first part. No to the second.

It was and is election time, PT can be voted out. If corruption is found then the courts can go through their legal processes, and have been. It does not justify a coup. The bigger problem is the fact that the establishment (PADites, dems, army, etc) refuse to develop party politics - they want to go backwards to patronage, they are actively calling for an Absolute Monarch, for example.

If only the dems would become a political party with policies then they can win elections. It is that simple; abhisit has had since 2005 to develop a party with policies, and he has done nothing at all!




> Fair enough, but I don't think either of these two coups were intended to rid the country of corruption or to protect the democratic process. 
> 
> On the contrary, both were to do the precise opposite, restore the pre-Thaksin regime with the people remaining ignorant and subservient to the same thieves and looters.


That's the point. The coup is on behalf of the political element that controls the army and includes the PADites and dems.

Now, if folks wanna say that they believe this is ok, that's upto them. But, when folks fail to see what you've pointed out, Leemo, despite the hordes of international commentators, Thais, on tv explaining it, well it kinda defies belief...

----------


## 9999

> That is not the case. You are taking my words from one post and using them in a different argument with a different meaning and purpose. I don't think they should 'bail out' anybody - I think they should do their duty as a department which is under the control of government.


Are you saying that the rice pledge was all good but the army held back the funds in order to make themselves look good after a coup? Dude, are you smoking crack? You really need to rethink your position as the rsident champion for and expert on the red shirts, as you're not much of an authority on the matter and are going to get pwned more deeply as this thread gos on with this irrational, blinkered bias of yours.

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Merrimack
> ...


I'm not saying they've sold all of it. They were trying right up until the coup. I'm sure there is still a lot. I don't think it was all rotting as some post here. There's lots of bs posted here. I just want the truth. Some here think Yingluck and those in her gov't were going to take all the cash and runaway somewhere. Just morons. Any government facing protests like those in BKK with no help from the military would have lots of problems.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Well, you're by far the most outspoken poster on TD on this topic, and blatantly pro-red.


Untrue. I support the mandate of the people. If the dems were voted in then I would support that mandate. I have no link to the reds. I support the fact that their voice, their vote should be respected. The ballot box is the place to voice ones concerns and beliefs.

----------


## Moonraker

> I'm not saying they've sold all of it. They were trying right up until the coup. I'm sure there is still a lot.


The farmers were due to be paid in JANUARY. Still 'trying' to sell it 5-6 months later doesn't cut it.

----------


## Bettyboo

^ you are right, it was a fuk up, and there is no excuse for how PT performed the rice scheme. 




> Are you saying that the rice pledge was all good but the army held back the funds in order to make themselves look good after a coup?


Again, you are changing words, making things up.

The rice pledge, as I've stated, was ill conceived, badly planned and corrupt. Nonetheless, the farmers need to be paid. The army are aligned to the PADites, dems, appointed senate and CC, and they blocked PT from using the banks to pay the farmers. Not the army per se, no, but the group the army are aligned to - they cannot be separated in this instance because since 2006 they have been working as one group to get rid of PT and take back total control of the nation.

----------


## Moonraker

> and they blocked PT from using the banks to pay the farmers.


It should have been paid long before then anyway!

----------


## Topper

Here's my coup picture contribution.  It's been awhile since I've had a machine gun pointed in my general direction.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> and they blocked PT from using the banks to pay the farmers.
> 
> 
> It should have been paid long before then anyway!


Yes, I fully agree with you. &, if I was a farmer who voted for them I'd be looking for another option to vote for.

This is relevant: where are the other people to vote for? That is Thailand's failure, the dems failure, the Bkk elite's failure, PT's failure'(less their failure because they keep winning elections, however, they have had the opportunity to change the political landscape against corruption and patronage, and they have not done so), the patronage system's failure - and the army will not be changing that, quite the opposite, they will be reducing the options, reducing the democratic space, forcing more patronage, removing checks and balances. That is why I'm against the coup.

----------


## 9999

> The rice pledge, as I've stated, was ill conceived, badly planned and corrupt. Nonetheless, the farmers need to be paid. The army are aligned to the PADites, dems, appointed senate and CC, and they blocked PT from using the banks to pay the farmers.


Dude thats a piss poor summary of events can you please go do some reading and get back to us, we cant discuss this if you have only a passing knowledge.

You are trying to gloss over the rice scheme's inception and paint the junta as the bad guys for settling. What the hell were they supposed to do? And do you really think they were obliged to bail the government out (what else do you call it?) by loaning out bad debt to their political enemies? welcome to the real world dude no one cares about the people not even your precious reds.

----------


## pseudolus

> Really? post the link or be an ass.


How about you post a link stating clearly that Yingluck was going to pay the rice money back a year ago, but suthep had loads of demonstrations outside of the bank to stop her paying it (or what ever your BS story is).

----------


## Bettyboo

9999, you're just trolling now. I've explained things as clearly as I can on a forum...

If the dems win an election then they have a mandate to see out there elected term; it's really as simple as that.

I'd love to see the dems and other parties develop a strong platform of policies and get elected in then fulfill their term. Thailand needs change, but not from the sharp end of a gun...

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> Really? post the link or be an ass.
> 
> 
> How about you post a link stating clearly that Yingluck was going to pay the rice money back a year ago, but suthep had loads of demonstrations outside of the bank to stop her paying it (or what ever your BS story is).


That's what I mean you are one of those people who thinks Yingluck and the rest of the gov't were going to run away with the nation's wealth. Get real.

----------


## 9999

> How about you post a link stating clearly that Yingluck was going to pay the rice money back a year ago, but suthep had loads of demonstrations outside of the bank to stop her paying it (or what ever your BS story is).


 :rofl:  you forgot to point out is was all a big ploy to shut them down and wait for a coup in order to release the strangle hold on the banks and pay the farmers to look like the heroes. What complete and utter scum for making good on pt's colossel fuk up the army should be put to the torch for paying the farmers as it makes them look good  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Rural Surin

> ...some choose Thai Buddhism and royality....


You actually equate these two entities as one.
Oh dear....you are misguided.

Both have no common bond nor nothing to do with one another.

----------


## Moonraker

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> ...


And this is where I agree with you.

There is a huge vacuum in Thai politics that needs to be filled. The answer is not the weak, namby-pamby Dems, nor the corrupt and greedy Shinwatras, but somebody else with a bit of steel and good intentions (even imperfect but better intentions would be progress).

----------


## TLansford

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> But the rice pledge does highlight the incompetence/greed of the ousted government and it is that which resulted in a coup being necessary.
> 
> 
> Yes to the first part. No to the second.
> 
> It was and is election time, PT can be voted out. If corruption is found then the courts can go through their legal processes, and have been. It does not justify a coup. The bigger problem is the fact that the establishment (PADites, dems, army, etc) refuse to develop party politics - they want to go backwards to patronage, they are actively calling for an Absolute Monarch, for example.
> 
> ...


completely valid point that the Dems are unable to win an election or provide a national-alternative that could form a coalition. 

That being the case, they turn to the military and courts to gain power.  

As long as one side or the other has the option to turn to the military to solve their political impotence, Thailand will never have a real democratically elected government for any significant length of time.

----------


## Mr Lick

> they blocked PT from using the banks to pay the farmers


 
To be fair, would any company loan money to an organisation that have been involved in corruption to the tune allegedly, between 450-800 Billion baht? 


In the UK, the government used taxpayers money to rescue the banks, without any consultation I might add. Quite incredibly, the taxpayers have been paying for that loan ever since.

If I were a saver/investor I wouldn't be happy in my cash being handed over to a corrupt institution like PT in order to allow them to continue in office. The banks, quite correctly made that decision in order to protect their clientele

----------


## pseudolus

> Yingluck and the rest of the gov't were going to run away with the nation's wealth


i never said that. 

Anyway, waiting for your link backing up your assertion.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by pseudolus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Merrimack
> ...


Investigators tracking funds sent out of thailand | Bangkok Post: news

----------


## Bettyboo

> There is a huge vacuum in Thai politics that needs to be filled.


But where are they gonna come from? Under the Thai patronage system you get corruption, and, well, patronage...

There are some supporters in the reds and yellows, probably quite a small number on either side, who are truly against corruption, so maybe these people can develop parties that run on the promise of zero corruption and total transparency. I don't feel optimistic, it just seems like we have corrupt powerful groups fighting each other, the army being one, who have no interest in developing corruption free party politics - they gain so much from the patronage.

It seems that the 1997 constitution writers had much more of an intent in this direction than the folks now, so maybe we should go back to that constitution and get the same people back to develop the weak points which were abused.

Apparently, prayuth is gonna outline his intentions tomorrow afternoon, so we might now more then about how things are gonna be in the immediate future.

----------


## 9999

> To be fair, would any company loan money to an organisation that have been involved in corruption to the tune allegedly, between 450-800 Billion baht?


BB claims that someone (unspecified) had an obligation as a government department lend out toxic loans. Regardless of whether or not they could have paid it back, they (unspecified goverment department with links to the army) should have just handed the money out. Careful now you might get branded a troll for raising valid points that do not line up with our resident extremist.

----------


## Bettyboo

> they blocked PT from using the banks to pay the farmers
> 			
> 		
> 
>  
> To be fair, would any company loan money to an organisation that have been involved in corruption to the tune allegedly, between 450-800 Billion baht? 
> 
> 
> In the UK, the government used taxpayers money to rescue the banks, without any consultation I might add. Quite incredibly, the taxpayers have been paying for that loan ever since.
> ...


It's a good point. As you mentioned, our governments paid out, as the government is one connected entity the does the elected governments bidding. I think it was corrupt, but that's how governments work.

The Thai courts/banks didn't stop paying due to some moral imperative on their part, it was political.

The junta got the money and are paying the farmers; I'm pleased about that for the sake of the farmers, but I also feel that it should not have been previously blocked by the courts.

----------


## Dandyhole

^^ thing is, Prayuth is going to do exactly that, isn't he?

----------


## 9999

> It's a good point. As you mentioned, our governments paid out, as the government is one connected entity the does the elected governments bidding. I think it was corrupt, but that's how governments work.
> 
> The Thai courts/banks didn't stop paying due to some moral imperative on their part, it was political.
> 
> The junta got the money and paid it; I'm pleased about that for the sake of the farmers, but I also feel that it should not have been previously blocked by the courts.
> 
> Remember when you talk about being a saver/investor that Thailand has some special situations in that regard where a commercial bank takes money from the tax payer and doesn't need to pay it back...


THanks for the info Betty, you sure know a lot about this stuff. Can you remind us about the court case that blocked the banks loaning money to the government? I'm sure you're totally correct but the way you describe isn't the way I remember it going down. Are you sure the courts blocked the banks from loaning money?

Also, please elaborate on these 'government departments' you mention and their culpable role in preventing the banks from making a loan. Thanks, your ample contribution is appreciated, its so good that the person at the forefront of this discussion knows his stuff so well and is also completely neutral and unbias.

----------


## Topper

Well fuck, I guess schools will be open tomorrow.

----------


## nidhogg

> It's a good point. As you mentioned, our governments paid out, as the government is one connected entity the does the elected governments bidding. I think it was corrupt, but that's how governments work.
> 
> The Thai courts/banks didn't stop paying due to some moral imperative on their part, it was political.


Jeeze Boo.  Please do some reading.  The government did not ask for the loans.  The acting government did!!

The government could have got the loans, the acting government could not.  Basically, an acting government cannot raise special funds, only a government can, which is why the loan attempt was kicked back.  Yingluck should have sorted the loan, paid the farmers THEN thrown in the towel.

Under the acting governemnt, basically only recurring payments can be made - which is why people still get salaries.  Special projects must be in the October budget (which is why it is a big thing) OR approved by a sitting government - NOT an acting one.

It is also one of the reasons why the PT would only settle for a quick election, they needed to be in power when the october budget was set so they could paper over all the crack.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pseudolus
> ...


FFS.. Can you imagine how much ill-gotten wealth would be scurried out of LOS if the Amart were on the pointy end of a left-wing coup? Personally, if the US in sincere in its sanctions/penalty talk against Thailand's coup makers and its backers, it should look into all assets of Thais in California, Pennsylvania and Maryland - which seems to be their favorite haunts.

----------


## 9999

> The government could have got the loans, the acting government could not. Basically, an acting government cannot raise special funds, only a government can, which is why the loan attempt was kicked back. Yingluck should have sorted the loan, paid the farmers THEN thrown in the towel.


Is this what you meant by that court case BB? Agree, like I said before go and do some reading coz its pretty obvious you're grasping for air here.

----------


## nidhogg

See elsewhere that HM will endore the coup tomorrow.......

----------


## Bettyboo

> THanks for the info Betty, you sure know a lot about this stuff. Can you remind us about the court case that blocked the banks loaning money to the government? I'm sure you're totally correct but the way you describe isn't the way I remember it going down. Are you sure the courts blocked the banks from loaning money?
> 
> Also, please elaborate on these 'government departments' you mention and their culpable role in preventing the banks from making a loan. Thanks, your ample contribution is appreciated, its so good that the person at the forefront of this discussion knows his stuff so well and is also completely neutral and unbias.


Your trolling is boring, but it is an interesting read and subject. It's quite a web... Here is an easy link for you:

2013

Basically, the NACC drove the collapse of this scheme and forced the non-payments. 

Here are some other links that give various details:

Thai PM under fire as rice scheme sinks, poll challenged | Reuters

_During a speech on Tuesday, Yingluck said anti-government protesters were manipulating the farmers to join their ranks. “The farmers are now in the middle of a political game being played by the protest leaders, who are refusing to follow the democratic and legal path,” said Thailand’s first female prime minister, adding that she was “very upset” by the delay to rice payments._
Thailand: Anti-Corruption Commission Presents Charges to Embattled PM Yingluck - TIME

This link is interesting:

Thai Rice Subsidy to Expire - WSJ.com

It's a complex web, PT mismanaged and the NACC/EC were delighted to legally intervene to block the payments (very late payments) that are now being paid by the junta.

Also, with China pulling out due to the NACC investigation, that offers a very interesting political angle too.

It was a political battle from start to finish with all sides trying to benefit, nobody much interested in the farmers as anything other than political pawns; very sad and typical of Thai politics.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> See elsewhere that HM will endore the coup tomorrow.......


Yeah. It's called the "Bangkok Post"

----------


## Bettyboo

> Jeeze Boo. Please do some reading. The government did not ask for the loans. The acting government did!!
> 
> The government could have got the loans, the acting government could not. Basically, an acting government cannot raise special funds, only a government can, which is why the loan attempt was kicked back. Yingluck should have sorted the loan, paid the farmers THEN thrown in the towel.


Yes, you are right. They shoud've made sure the farmers were paid before dissolving parliament. The PAD and their allies outplayed them.




> Is this what you meant by that court case BB?





> The Thai courts/banks didn't stop paying due to some moral imperative on their part, it was political.


Yes, the NACC court case which stopped them from getting the loan and paying the farmers - the NACC were a legal tool for the PADites; this has been highlighted numerous times in numerous places, so shouldn't be new news to you.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

^
Would all these trolls not agree that there was a full court press to ensure the government COULDN'T find the money to pay farmers? Would any of the trolls not agree that the EC and CC were part of a dirty little play to push out the government? Would any of these trolls not agree that the army was in play the whole time, waiting for instructions on timing to drive home the fatal blow?

Ah, no of course not.. that would spoil their bullshit little gripes

To me the most interesting difference in this coup and the previous one is (as BBC and others point out) is that everyone in the world can see this - and so can everyone in Thailand now. And that's a lightning rod..

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> See elsewhere that HM will endore the coup tomorrow.......
> 
> 
> Yeah. It's called the "Bangkok Post"


Yes...all predictable.
Nothing new.

----------


## pseudolus

Dear the Society for the protection of Yingluck. 

The Rice money has been owed for over a year. the scheme /scam has been labelled as a financial disaster by everyone globally for 18 months now. In your ignorance, you seem to think that this is something recent, and those dastardly yellows have concocted this to cause a coup. Well, for sure, the yellows are scum as well, however, the link you are trying to make is impossible to make. 

Your, with kind regards

Reality.

----------


## 9999

> Yes, the NACC court case which stopped them from getting the loan and paying the farmers - the NACC were a legal tool for the PADites; this has been highlighted numerous times in numerous places, so shouldn't be new news to you.


It's not news and thanks for confirming. So this court thing, was it the elected government that was ruled against?

----------


## Dandyhole

Would a democrat government in similar circumstances have got the loans?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

^
Of course. Then again, a Democrat Government would never have offered loans to rice farmers. 

Now then if it were rubber farmers on the other hand, almost certainly. They'd all have long last names of course. Chaiphoomleerathanaprhakhon family needs a loan cause the rubber prices have dropped below market value. But hang on, isn't the Chaiphoomleerathanaprhakhon a very rich family living in the deep south? Yes, but they 'need' the loan..

----------


## Bettyboo

^^ these are good questions - and we all know the answer, hence why some of this trolling is so ridiculous. Whatever party, group or ideology you support, it's clear that everything that has happened from 2006 to now has been a group effort against PT and with zero regard for the nation.




> So this court thing, was it the elected government that was ruled against?


Yes it was.

Just think, if between them they had put the farmers first and got the loans out, how much that would have benefited Thais in need; but no political gain there...

----------


## pseudolus

> Would a democrat government in similar circumstances have got the loans?


would a democrat government have proposed such a mindless scam to win votes in the first place?

----------


## Moonraker

> ^
> Would all these trolls not agree that there was a full court press to ensure the government COULDN'T find the money to pay farmers? Would any of the trolls not agree that the EC and CC were part of a dirty little play to push out the government? Would any of these trolls not agree that the army was in play the whole time, waiting for instructions on timing to drive home the fatal blow?
> 
> Ah, no of course not.. that would spoil their bullshit little gripes


It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the loans were refused to help heap pressure on Yingluck and her cronies.

They should never have been given that opportunity in the first place though as that money should have been paid up long before that point. That is wasn't lies firmly at the feet of Yingluck's government, no matter what excuses you might try to make.

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> Would a democrat government in similar circumstances have got the loans?
> 
> 
> would a democrat government have proposed such a mindless scam to win votes in the first place?


Well let's just say they had or similar, would they have got the loans?

----------


## 9999

> Just think, if between them they had put the farmers first and got the loans out, how much that would have benefited Thais in need; but no political gain there...


Can't disagree there. The govt. made a shitty promise for political gain. They failed and couldn't get funding. The first move the military makes is to pay the farmers because their hands are not tied as with the govt.

But how can you try deflect from your side and paint the army in the light you have? If they didnt pay the farmers and cited the reason as they do not wish to act for political gain what is your reaction?

Stop nitpicking at every move as some conspiracy against the plight of the people and the reds. It was a good move and the only move. You would have them not pay the farmers???

----------


## Tom Sawyer

^^^
And your proof that it was held back by PTP is what? They were headed off at every opportunity.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

You are all nuts if you think that a faulty rice guarantee scheme - no different to the many similar schemes for dairy, wheat or others in Western countries - is a warrant for a right-wing coup d'etat. You are seriously off you f'ing nuts. But of course you are just grasping at straws..

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> Just think, if between them they had put the farmers first and got the loans out, how much that would have benefited Thais in need; but no political gain there...
> 
> 
> Can't disagree there. The govt. made a shitty promise for political gain. They failed and couldn't get funding. The first move the military makes is to pay the farmers because their hands are not tied as with the govt.
> 
> But how can you try deflect from your side and paint the army in the light you have? If they didnt pay the farmers and cited the reason as they do not wish to act for political gain what is your reaction?
> 
> Stop nitpicking at every move as some conspiracy against the plight of the people and the reds. It was a good move and the only move. You would have them not pay the farmers???


So why didn't the army just tell the banks to cough up for the elected government if it is now so important to them?

The junta is now attempting to buy creedance, which was the charge against the government

----------


## Moonraker

> You are all nuts if you think that a faulty rice guarantee scheme - no different to the many similar schemes for dairy, wheat or others in Western countries - is a warrant for a right-wing coup d'etat. You are seriously off you f'ing nuts. But of course you are just grasping at straws..


I don't think that a single person has said it is.

----------


## 9999

> You are all nuts if you think that a faulty rice guarantee scheme - no different to the many similar schemes for dairy, wheat or others in Western countries - is a warrant for a right-wing coup d'etat. You are seriously off you f'ing nuts.


Right ... we all think the coup was about the rice pledge  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

What I dont get is die hard supporters of the side of the rice pledge are dissing the arming for making good on it to somehow strengthen their position. It only illustrates the desperation of their position. The army are acting only for the good of people to restore order, have already gone a ways by paying the farmers, and do not deserve to be accused of political meddling when they come and clean up the disaster govt's mess. Let loose and suthep and the yellows, but the army is not at fault here. Nor are 'certain institutions' that TD falang radicals keep taking cheap not so covert pot shots at.

----------


## Bettyboo

> It was a good move and the only move. You would have them not pay the farmers???


Yes it was. I'm glad the farmers are being paid. I hope they can do more to help them with their loans which have grown much larger than the farmers had intended though no fault of their own.

The army are not a politically independent group who just happen, by luck, to have made that call...

----------


## 9999

> So why didn't the army just tell the banks to cough up for the elected government if it is now so important to them?


It's wasn't important to them. It has gotten to the point where they are forced to step in and govern the nation. Not a good situation and regardless of whether or not the army are justified in the coup, I don't see how them making good as soon as they are in a position to do so is condemned. 

What, are you saying the army should have marched in in a state of normal governance and demanded at gun point that the banks loan money they will likely never see, to a corrupt government???  :Confused:

----------


## Moonraker

I'm not convinced the junta's decision to pay the farmers is entirely altruistic. I'd be very surprised if there is no political ulterior motive behind it. 

That the opportunity to score some brownie points was handed to them on a plate, however, is something that the ousted government is at fault for. The opportunity has been gift-wrapped for the army, they'd be fucking nuts not to take it.

----------


## 9999

> The army are not a politically independent group who just happen, by luck, to have made that call...


I dont get your point. You are saying the army has a political agenda and therefore is in the wrong for paying the farmers? I dont get where you are going with this, or why you use the paying of the farmers to try expose the army's hidden agenda.




> I'm not convinced the junta's decision to pay the farmers is entirely altruistic. I'd be very surprised if there is no political ulterior motive behind it.


I don't think there was any other choice. It has been positioned as such that as soon as the reds got out of govt the farmers get paid. This is no reason to accost the army and their political agenda. The reds were simply outplayed.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> I'm not convinced the junta's decision to pay the farmers is entirely altruistic. I'd be very surprised if there is no political ulterior motive behind it. 
> 
> That the opportunity to score some brownie points was handed to them on a plate, however, is something that the ousted government is at fault for. The opportunity has been gift-wrapped for the army, they'd be fucking nuts not to take it.


Hey guess what. General Big Hat will somehow magically find the money - you can bet on that, while the elected legal government operating within the legal confines of a legitimately democratically elected constitutional government was hamstrung deliberately by the so-called "independent institutions" from the get-go -- and you KNOW IT

----------


## Bettyboo

^^ Since 2006, the army has been trying to get rid of PT; they have conducted 2 coups, changed the laws and appointed judiciary to convict Thaksin, they have attacked PT supporters, and they have at every turn supported the PAD demonstrations even when they took over the airport, government complexes, etc. They have appointed a senate to make sure that an elected government does not have ultimate power, and they've also changed the constitution to empower themselves. Everything the PADites and dems did was aligned with the army, CC, EC and NACC; it was a group effort. 

Yes, the army has a political agenda. You do know that right? You have read up about the history of Thailand since the 1930s and the army's role in governing the country during that time; the army's political role...

No, the army is not wrong to pay the farmers a.s.a.p.

----------


## Moonraker

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> 
> I'm not convinced the junta's decision to pay the farmers is entirely altruistic. I'd be very surprised if there is no political ulterior motive behind it. 
> 
> That the opportunity to score some brownie points was handed to them on a plate, however, is something that the ousted government is at fault for. The opportunity has been gift-wrapped for the army, they'd be fucking nuts not to take it.
> 
> 
> Hey guess what. General Big Hat will somehow magically find the money - you can bet on that, while the elected legal government operating within the legal confines of a legitimately democratically elected constitutional government was hamstrung deliberately by the so-called "independent institutions" from the get-go -- and you KNOW IT


So you're still ignoring that the then government should have been able to pay the farmers without the need for the loans that were refused. Convenient.

----------


## Moonraker

Government: Hey, farmers... Give us your rice and we'll give you lots of money for it.
Farmers: OK then, here you go.

Farmers: can we have our money yet?
Government: No

Farmers: Can we have our money yet?
Government: No

Farmers: can we have our money yet?
Government: No

Farmers: Can we have our money yet?
Government: No

Farmers: can we have our money yet?
Government: No

Farmers: Can we have our money yet?
Government: No

Farmers: We need our money
Government: We don't have it

Farmers: Where's our money?
Government: We don't have it

Farmers: We need our money now, we are not happy
Government: Hold on, hold on.

Government: Can we borrow some money please? We promised to give some to the farmers but we don't have it because we're crap and greedy
Court: No!
Government: OH MY GOD. IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, WE'RE BEING PERSECUTED!

----------


## Yasojack

Prayuth seems to of changed what he originally said.

He said he was going to pay them in 15 to 20 days, and now has changed and said he will try and find the money.




> I'm not convinced the junta's decision to pay the farmers is entirely altruistic. I'd be very surprised if there is no political ulterior motive behind it. 
> 
> That the opportunity to score some brownie points was handed to them on a plate, however, is something that the ousted government is at fault for. The opportunity has been gift-wrapped for the army, they'd be fucking nuts not to take it.

----------


## Yasojack

You may find they could of got the money, then they became the caretaker govt and then the establishment stopped them in there tracks.




> Government: Hey, farmers... Give us your rice and we'll give you lots of money for it.
> Farmers: OK then, here you go.
> 
> Farmers: can we have our money yet?
> Government: No
> 
> Farmers: Can we have our money yet?
> Government: No
> 
> ...

----------


## Moonraker

> You may find they could of got the money, then they became the caretaker govt and then the establishment stopped them in there tracks.


They were supposed to get the money by selling the bloody rice!

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> So you're still ignoring that the then government should have been able to pay the farmers without the need for the loans that were refused. Convenient.


No. You're ignoring the fact that the money available within government was refused by the EC as were loans. Convenient. (dickhead)

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> They were supposed to get the money by selling the bloody rice!


They did sell the rice

They already took the money.

Grand larceny

 ::chitown::

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Most of those farmers know who was screwing them.. and they know it wasn't the PTP or Yingluck.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> 
> I'm not convinced the junta's decision to pay the farmers is entirely altruistic. I'd be very surprised if there is no political ulterior motive behind it. 
> 
> That the opportunity to score some brownie points was handed to them on a plate, however, is something that the ousted government is at fault for. The opportunity has been gift-wrapped for the army, they'd be fucking nuts not to take it.
> 
> 
> Hey guess what. General Big Hat will somehow magically find the money - you can bet on that, while the elected legal government operating within the legal confines of a legitimately democratically elected constitutional government was hamstrung deliberately by the so-called "independent institutions" from the get-go -- and you KNOW IT


But the democratically-elected constitutional government wasn't quite so angelic, not if its officials were trousering the cashflows.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> They were supposed to get the money by selling the bloody rice!
> 
> 
> They did sell the rice
> 
> They already took the money.


Did they? You seem confused, The government bought the rice at a higher price by promise note, stored it hoping, to drive up the price and pay back the Note later. Prices went south, the government coulnt recover the costs to pay - the establishment's fake "independent" agencies marched to the orders of their Amart bosses and not one satang was fothcoming. The call for election as a caretaker government hobbled the popular administration the rest is history - and YOU KNOW THAT TOO

----------


## Moonraker

> The government bought the rice at a higher price by promise note, stored it hoping, to drive up the price and pay back the Note later. Prices went south, the government coulnt recover the costs to pay


So then you admit that the fucked up?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Ah, so refreshing - feels like back on Thai Visa again.

OK hands up, why in your little distopian view, was a coup necessary?

This should be interesting

----------


## Yasojack

Ye and what happened at the Auctions etc.?




> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> You may find they could of got the money, then they became the caretaker govt and then the establishment stopped them in there tracks.
> 
> 
> They were supposed to get the money by selling the bloody rice!

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Most of those farmers know who was screwing them.. and they know it wasn't the PTP or Yingluck.


How some farang can be so stupid is really beyond comprehension.

The rice scam led these daft, gullible farmers to believe that they would get more than the bloody rice was worth. On that basis they borrowed on account. They are insolvent and once they do get what they were promised, and that is unlikely for many, that will be it. Henceforth it's going to be the market rate less the rake-off from the middlemen downstream and that won't be sufficient to sustain a family with aspirations. Land will be sold off and inevitably the price will fall. 

Those cretinous farang buying their whores a big face house on land at the rate of 200,000 bt a rai in Nakhon Nowhere are truly wasting their dosh.

Ah well.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by nidhogg
> ...


Yes dear - noted. However this has been on the Bangkok Post site for some time - so no need to quote 'sources' - and yes, of course, we all know what endorsement means. Unfortunately we all know what that means.

----------


## Moonraker

> Ah, so refreshing - feels like back on Thai Visa again.
> 
> OK hands up, why in your little distopian view, was a coup necessary?
> 
> This should be interesting


Something had to be done. Protests had been damaging business and causing casualties for 6 months now and there was no telling when it might stop. The democratic process was certainly not helping.

Ideally the solution would have been something other than a coup but I don't know what that solution is, do you?

----------


## Troy

The rice scheme was undoubtedly a scheme that went horribly wrong, even before it started.  I would have thought it would have been sufficient to have brought down the government last year, before the Suthep led protests even started. 

So why didn't it? Why weren't the NACC involved when it became obvious to everyone that it was nothing more than a scam? A legitimate removal of the Government due to corruption would have been seen as progress to the rest of the World and would have pretty much destroyed the PT Government for many years to come. 

...But hang on a minute...wasn't it the Democratss that introduced the Rice Pledging scheme in their Government? What was the big difference between the two schemes? (Apart from India opening up its Rice for exports and making Thailand look silly)

----------


## nidhogg

> I'm not convinced the junta's decision to pay the farmers is entirely altruistic. I'd be very surprised if there is no political ulterior motive behind it.


I am not sure.  As was pointed out to me today, a "certain person" with an awful amount of influence (particularly on Prayuth) is very, very, very sympathetic towards farmers...

----------


## Moonraker

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> 
> I'm not convinced the junta's decision to pay the farmers is entirely altruistic. I'd be very surprised if there is no political ulterior motive behind it. 
> 
> 
> I am not sure.  As was pointed out to me today, a "certain person" with an awful amount of influence (particularly on Prayuth) is very, very, very sympathetic towards farmers...


Fair point.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> ...


 
I think I did not quote "sources" tom, I think I said I see elsewhere.  Some of us read quite widely.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> ^^
> Wow. Great retort


But Tom - the boys you're defending doggedly are likely criminals, .....and that suspicion pre-figures every single thing you say in their defence.

If you want a socialist utopia, they are the last people you'd want on the starting line-up.!

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> Ah, so refreshing - feels like back on Thai Visa again.
> 
> OK hands up, why in your little distopian view, was a coup necessary?
> 
> This should be interesting
> 
> ...


Sure. The army as a full partner in protecting "the People" it professes as one of its stakeholders at polling stations across the country. The fact it and the kangaroo courts didn't is obvious to everyone in the world now, and the whole world knows the dirty little game that the next generation is trying to play now - everyone knows it - there is nowhere to hide - the game is up. With disgust it must be said. Do Chinses-Thai Hi-So have the ability to blush? They should

----------


## Moonraker

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. 

Are you offering another election as an alternative? How would that fix things?

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> wasn't it the Democratss that introduced the Rice Pledging scheme in their Government? What was the big difference between the two schemes?


PT stole all the money.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> ^^
> Wow. Great retort
> 
> 
> But Tom - the boys you're defending doggedly are likely criminals, .....and that suspicion pre-figures every single thing you say in their defence.
> 
> If you want a socialist utopia, they are the last people you'd want on the starting line-up.!


I guess Che Guevera was a criminal in that sense because his family almost certainly benefited - yet he put his smarts to good use socially.. Oh look they managed to kill him too. Is that your point?

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> ...


No, my point was that the boys you're defending doggedly are likely criminals, .....and that  suspicion pre-figures every single thing you say in their defence.

and that  if you want a socialist utopia, they are the last people you'd want on the starting line-up.

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by Troy
> 
> wasn't it the Democratss that introduced the Rice Pledging scheme in their Government? What was the big difference between the two schemes?
> 
> 
> PT stole all the money.


 
 :rofl: 


But I think to be fair, the abhisit program was a crop protection scheme. If your rice crop was wiped out (flood, drought) the government would give you some money.   A guy would turn up, photograph your field and a few weeks later you would get the cash.  Many farmers actually look quite fondly upon that.

Simple fact is, that crop subsidies are a well known political tool.  Stealing all the cash, somewhat less so.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> Jeeze Boo. Please do some reading. The government did not ask for the loans. The acting government did!!
> 
> The government could have got the loans, the acting government could not. Basically, an acting government cannot raise special funds, only a government can, which is why the loan attempt was kicked back. Yingluck should have sorted the loan, paid the farmers THEN thrown in the towel.
> 
> 
> Yes, you are right. They shoud've made sure the farmers were paid before dissolving parliament. The PAD and their allies outplayed them.
> 
> ...




This seems all a bit late Yingluk should have paid the farmers six months prior when they were due the money, this was one of the big problems for Yingluk she was to worried about amnesty for bign brother to thonk about the poor farmers, some of whom were committingn suicide.

----------


## Smug Farang Bore

Has the daily mail been blocked for some interesting stories?

----------


## crippen

For some serious LM. :ourrules:

----------


## Dandyhole

British FCO Minister Hugo Swire slams junta intentions and wants timetable to elections.

----------


## Dandyhole

Chaturon tells Reuters that army and establishment led government into prepared trap

----------


## Moonraker

> Has the daily mail been blocked for some interesting stories?


Good to see progress being made so soon.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> ...


Of course not you know that. I am defending one person one vote, why aren't you?

----------


## Mr Lick

> British FCO Minister Hugo Swire slams junta intentions and wants timetable to elections.


 
I believe Prayuth has already made a statement on this issue, was Hugo not paying attention?  :Smile:

----------


## Mr Lick

> I am defending one person one vote, why aren't you?


In LoS I believe it is actually 200'ish baht one vote

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> 
> British FCO Minister Hugo Swire slams junta intentions and wants timetable to elections.
> 
> 
>  
> I believe Prayuth has already made a statement on this issue, was Hugo not paying attention?


Maybe not, but he is now

----------


## Troy

> But I think to be fair, the abhisit program was a crop protection scheme. If your rice crop was wiped out (flood, drought) the government would give you some money. A guy would turn up, photograph your field and a few weeks later you would get the cash. Many farmers actually look quite fondly upon that.  Simple fact is, that crop subsidies are a well known political tool. Stealing all the cash, somewhat less so.


The Abhisit program (as you call it) was a Rice Guarantee Scheme as opposed to a Rice Pledge Scheme. In the former, the tax payer pays the difference and in the latter the burden is shared between the tax payer and the market.

I have always disliked both schemes, preferring subsidy based on land and production levels. so that the poorer farmers, in single season areas with poorer soils,  are more subsidised than the three season farmers, with good climate and water, in the Central Plains. I won't go into specifics but there is an awful lot of improvement to be had in the poorer farming regions with better land, water and crop management.

----------


## Merrimack

Not sure which beach this is.



From this page: https://www.facebook.com/RedIntelligence?fref=photo 
May have more updates if you check.

----------


## Merrimack

This paper given out to villagers to turn in those with violent tendency.

https://www.facebook.com/rajprasong/...01813503162212


Originally from this facebook page... 

https://www.facebook.com/bygonreturn?fref=photo

----------


## Merrimack

From yesterdays protests:

----------


## Dillinger

> Not sure which beach this is.


Jomtiem, Pattaya

----------


## FloridaBorn

> From yesterdays protests:


Oh, so suddenly Hitler is not so funny nor is a swastika a fashion statement..

----------


## taxexile

> I have always disliked both schemes, preferring subsidy based on land and production levels. so that the poorer farmers, in single season areas with poorer soils, are more subsidised than the three season farmers, with good climate and water, in the Central Plains.


It would be better to pay them not to produce, then there would be no rice mountains, no corruption, and the soil would have some quality time to recover.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> From yesterdays protests:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so suddenly Hitler is not so funny nor is a swastika a fashion statement..


What's disturbing and disrespectable is their sublime and uncanny relations with _the other._

----------


## FloridaBorn

Yeah not a well thought out location for _that_ particular demonstration.. I saw that but while something was ringing bells, I didn't make the immediate connection.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> I have always disliked both schemes, preferring subsidy based on land and production levels. so that the poorer farmers, in single season areas with poorer soils, are more subsidised than the three season farmers, with good climate and water, in the Central Plains.
> 			
> 		
> 
> It would be better to pay them not to produce, then there would be no rice mountains, no corruption, and the soil would have some quality time to recover.


I've already said that Tax, about 3 pages ago. Easily achieved as well but it lessens the scope for organised corruption and so is bound to fail. Thai are too deceitful across the board for democracy.

----------


## zygote1

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				I have always disliked both schemes, preferring subsidy based on land and production levels. so that the poorer farmers, in single season areas with poorer soils, are more subsidised than the three season farmers, with good climate and water, in the Central Plains.
> ...


How would you respond to the enormous state subsidies that Vietnam and India pour into their rice  production? Those subsidies ate into Thailand's rice exports. I don't know what the answer is, and I detest agricultural subsidies.  My gut tells me that the money would have been better spent on building up infrastructure such as roads, rail lines storage and shipping facilities that would have lowered the cost of sending the rice to market, but even that amounts to a state subsidy, albeit indirect.

----------


## Troy

> Originally Posted by troy
> 
>  I have always disliked both schemes, preferring subsidy based on land and production levels. so that the poorer farmers, in single season areas with poorer soils, are more subsidised than the three season farmers, with good climate and water, in the Central Plains.
> 
> 
>  It would be better to pay them not to produce, then there would be no rice mountains, no corruption, and the soil would have some quality time to recover.


That is regional dependent and, although true for the Central Plains, does not apply to single season  and some two-season areas. In fact, many villages have their own schemes, where they contribute several bags of rice to a village store as insurance against  bad harvest the following year. It works if 2 or 3 families get hit badly rather than the whole community.

----------


## zygote1

> I have always disliked both schemes, preferring subsidy based on land and production levels. so that the poorer farmers, in single season areas with poorer soils, are more subsidised than the three season farmers, with good climate and water, in the Central Plains.
> 			
> 		
> 
> It would be better to pay them not to produce, then there would be no rice mountains, no corruption, and the soil would have some quality time to recover.


Bingo. Many areas of Thailand are not appropriate for rice growing, but no one wants to listen to that.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Ok,quick lesson on why subsidies are necessary in food production.

Farmer grows crops one year when demand is high and prices rise accordingly. Everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and things go peachy. One year demand falls, competition is fierce and there's a huge market slump. Farmer goes out of business. Feast or famine?

Intervention in the supply side is the only way to stabilise production and prevent volatility in prices. Clearly, nature has an input but this can reward some at the cost of others.

Central intervention boards buying in at fixed price from suppliers leads to oversupply which distorted prices internationally, is wasteful and expensive.

Incentive not to grow is the preferred measure these days, protects the suppliers and encourages diversification.

----------


## cyrille

> Oh, so suddenly Hitler is not so funny nor is a swastika a fashion statement..


Yeah, like 68 million people are all responsible for the actions of a few dozen drippy teenagers.

----------


## aging one

NEWSFLASH  * Thai protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban and four other leaders  of the anti-government movement People's Democratic Reform Committee  (PDRC) were on Monday charged with rebellion.*
PHOTOS                File photo: Anti-government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban. (AFP/Nicolas ASFOURI)       

EnlargeCaption 


                                 BANGKOK: Thai protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban and  four other leaders of the anti-government movement People's Democratic  Reform Committee (PDRC) were on Monday charged with rebellion.
The  Bangkok Post reported that the five were freed from military detention  and escorted to the Office of the Attorney General on Monday morning to  face insurrection charges.

They were detained on Thursday after junta leader Prayut Chan-O-Cha seized power in a coup.

PDRC  has led months of anti-government protests, calling for vaguely-defined  reforms to end alleged corruption by deposed premier Yingluck  Shinawatra’s family.

----------


## Gerbil

> The Bangkok Post reported that the five were freed from military detention and escorted to the Office of the Attorney General on Monday morning to face insurrection charges.


That faint *pop* sound you can hear is the sound of numerous pro-red TD members brains expiring from the effort of trying to fit this development in with their beliefs.

----------


## Troy

> Ok,quick lesson on why subsidies are necessary in food production.


I was reading more into Tax and your posts than I should have and starting down the: "How much subsidy" route. My apologies for that.

However, the point I was making in my earlier post was that Abhisit's government, with a B15,000/ton Guarantee scheme would have been equally scuppered when India started to trade rice. They would have had to pay the difference or dropped the guaranteed price or stored. 

It was in response to the growing spiral of Rice Pledge Scheme causing the Coup, which I think is unfounded. 

In fact, the Protests were against anything and everything the government did until they triggered enough backing. If the Temple protest, or any other event, had got enough backing then it would have been the trigger.

----------


## KEVIN2008

.......In one remarkable photograph, a soldier at the Victory Monument wept as he was abused by protesters, a sign of how, despite initial support among many people for the military putsch, there is ambivalence about the army being in charge in Thailand.

READ MORE:   Thai protesters face off against soldiers in Bangkok - Asia-Pacific | The Irish Times - Mon, May 26, 2014

----------


## Merrimack

The real heading for the photo at your link. Go to the link to see what goes with the picture.
*
"A teardrop rolls down the face of a soldier whose unit was deployed in  Bangkoks shopping district yesterday to control protesters against  military rule."*


I wonder why he's crying? Maybe he's force to abuse the people he loves. Maybe he even supports Yingluck.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by aging one
> 
> The Bangkok Post reported that the five were freed from military detention and escorted to the Office of the Attorney General on Monday morning to face insurrection charges.
> 
> 
> That faint *pop* sound you can hear is the sound of numerous pro-red TD members brains expiring from the effort of trying to fit this development in with their beliefs.


Don't shoot your load yet, Gerbil - there's plenty more to play out before we know what's going on...

----------


## Merrimack

The reuters Photographers explanation: 

"A teardrop rolls down the face of a soldier, whose unit was deployed to  control protesters against military rule, at Bangkok's shopping district  May 25, 2014. Thailand's military tightened its grip on power on Sunday  as it moved to douse smouldering protests fuelled by social media and  to rally commercial agencies and business to revitalise a battered  economy. REUTERS/Damir Sagolj "

https://news.yahoo.com/photos/teardr...123858140.html

----------


## Merrimack

"BREAKING: The same people causing bloody protests for past 6 years in Thailand now concerned about it."

https://twitter.com/bkkbase

Also known as Tursdak Numsakul's twitter

----------


## spliff

The turd tells it as it is. I follow him...his analysis is smack on.

----------


## nevets

Yes there are some soldiers that are in for the long hall , I know a few but most are 2 year young conscripts.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Stopped speculating now then Betts ?


Nothing has changed so far, suthep and prayuth have a good relationship that goes back a fair while, but the PADites, as I've stated before, do like to throw the minions away when it suits them...

It has been speculated for a long time that suthep was likely to be sacrificed, but that's still not clear. We simply don't know. What we do know is that closing down the media and political space, making yourself unaccountable due to your big gun (...ahem), is not good. More accountability and transparency is what Thai politics and governance needs, not less...

----------


## taxexile

> More accountability and transparency is what Thai politics and governance needs, not less...


Now is not the time for namby pamby western style liberalism.

Now is the time of the iron fist.

Transparency and accountability can return once the garbage has been thrown out.

----------


## Bettyboo

> More accountability and transparency is what Thai politics and governance needs, not less...
> 			
> 		
> 
> Now is not the time for namby pamby western style liberalism.
> 
> Now is the time of the iron fist.
> 
> Transparency and accountability can return once the garbage has been thrown out.


There's nothing 'namby pamby' about transparency and accountability, it's the foundation of a corruption free (or at least limited...) society. It's what Thailand sorely lacks, at every level, and it's what the army and patronage stand for; hence why this coup will take Thailand backwards, not forwards.

----------


## Merrimack



----------


## Merrimack

*Yingluck released | Thai PBS English News*

             The National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) has released  former  Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra last night after she was detained one  day after the coup last Thursday.        

      She was freed from the First Infantry Division of the Royal Guards in Bangkok on order of NCPO head Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha.

 Several other people detained at the  same place were also released. Their names were not disclosed but her  sister Yaowapa Wongsawat and ex-Premier  Somchai Wongsawat were also  detained at the same safehouse inside the army barracks.
 Until this morning she was not seen where she returned to stay after the release.
 General Prayuth last night  also ordered the release of several detainees from the Pheu Thai Party, and the PDRC

 However, those leaders who have  arrest warrants issued against them, will still be placed in military  custody to await trial  by the Court Martial.

 Yingluck, whose government was in  power when the unrest began in November, was removed from office earlier  this month by the countrys Constitutional Court over the appointments  of top security officials.

 Yingluck is the sister of Thaksin  Shinawatra, who was ousted as premier in a military coup in 2006.  Thailand has faced a power struggle since Thaksin was ousted by the  military as PM in 2006.

 The latest unrest began last year,  when anti-government protesters embarked on a campaign to oust  Yinglucks government. They accuse Yingluck of acting as a proxy for her  fugitive brother.

 More than 200 people were so far summoned to appear before the National Council for Peace and Order.

 Those summoned include academics and one of Yinglucks chief opponents, Yellow Shirt movement leader Sondhi Limthongkul.

----------


## Necron99

Ok, so he now has Royal Assent. Lets hear no more talk of Coups.
He is the Leader of a Military Junta for Thailand with the King as Head of State (LMJTKHS).

The big guy has spoken, everyone should just go about their business and let LMJTKHS get on with his royally endorsed job.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Amen to that.

----------


## Merrimack

Fugitive Thai minister says army led government into trap
* Fugitive Thai minister says army led government into trap* 

 Monday, May 26, 2014, 09:12


                                                                                                                       Bangkok: Thailand's top generals lured the former government and its  supporters into a trap by arranging peace talks between political  heavyweights then seizing power in a coup moments later, a deposed  minister said on Sunday. 

Speaking to Reuters by telephone from an undisclosed location, ousted  Education Minister Chaturon Chaisang said he was suspicious of army  chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha's motives for declaring martial law on  Tuesday, then calling all key players in the crisis to the negotiating  table two days later. 

"I felt something wasn't right. I tried to warn cabinet members, but I couldn't get the message across in time," Chaturon said. 

"It was a trap. They'd planned it earlier, then they staged the coup and  ordered the other Puea Thai Party members to report to them. I knew  something was wrong," he said, referring to the ruling party of ousted  Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra. 

Chaturon was describing Thursday's meeting at the Army Club, a military  social venue that's now the de facto seat of government. Sources at  those talks described how gun-toting troops rushed in to secure  politicians, activists and even journalists as Prayuth abruptly left,  then appeared on television to say negotiations had collapsed, so the  army had seized power. [ID:nL3N0O83H0] 

"This must have been prepared for some time," Chaturon said, adding he  suspected the opposition Democrat Party, an anti-government protest  group and the royalist establishment had colluded with the army to  overthrow the government. 

The whereabouts of Yingluck, her cabinet members, other senior party  members and their so-called red shirt supporters remain unknown.  [ID:nL3N0O85O3] They formed the bulk of political players summoned to  report to the junta, although some of their opponents, who led six  months of protests to bring Yingluck down, have also been detained. 

Chaturon, a close ally of self-exiled billionaire and former premier  Thaksin Shinawatra, Yingluck's brother and the driving force behind the  deposed government, said he was unable to make contact with any of his  associates and feared most were in military custody.FEARFUL OF  OPPRESSION 

He raised doubts about whether the "red shirts", the formidable  pro-Thaksin protest movement, would be able to regroup and fight against  the takeover, as they had vowed, because their leaders were being held. 

He said the coup was unlike others in Thailand's recent history because  the army was stamping out dissent, muzzling the media and deploying  swift measures to arrest anyone with potential to disrupt their rule. 

"This is very serious indeed, it's very bad," Chaturon said. "There are  several military units out to arrest me. It seems they'll detain a lot  of people and we don't know for how long. It's going to be very  oppressive." 

The military has said it would detain people for a week at most. 

"I don't want to stay underground, neither do I plan to join any  rebellion against the coup-makers. This must be resolved by peaceful  means," Chaturon said. 

Chaturon was a minister and member of the Thai Rak Thai party that  Thaksin led to two landslide election victories before the generals,  Prayuth among them, staged the last coup in 2006, accusing Thaksin of  graft and disloyalty to the monarchy.  He said the political climate had changed significantly since then and  the junta would face a lot more resistance, as shown by protests in days  since the coup in Bangkok and in north and northeastern provinces.      

         "The resistance from the people has already started, very early, and  it seems to be spontaneous, not organised. There's no leaders left," he  said. 

"No one wants this suppression of the people. I hope there won't be  oppression and harsh measures against them. We don't want to see  violence or casualties because those who will be suppressed are those  who want democracy and did nothing wrong."  

                             Chaturon raised doubts about Prayuth's political reform path and said  any constitution or new legislation would be designed to sideline the  Shinawatra family and its allies and end their more than a decade of  electoral dominance. 

"Any election after that would be meaningless," he said. "The system  will be designed so no matter which party people vote for, it won't be  able to form a government."


   Reuters

----------


## pseudolus

> The reuters Photographers explanation: 
> 
> "A teardrop rolls down the face of a soldier, whose unit was deployed to  control protesters against military rule, at Bangkok's shopping district  May 25, 2014. Thailand's military tightened its grip on power on Sunday  as it moved to douse smouldering protests fuelled by social media and  to rally commercial agencies and business to revitalise a battered  economy. REUTERS/Damir Sagolj "
> 
> https://news.yahoo.com/photos/teardr...123858140.html


Ahhh bless. Did they ask the soldier, or are they simply guessing. Why only one eye? Maybe he has an infection. Maybe his mommy didn't make his favourite packed lunch? Maybe he lost his iphone. 

What a load of tosh you are believing matey. Lets show you. 



This lady is crying because her father committed suicide over the debts from not 


> having his rice crop paid for for a year by yingluck, and it was wiped out the year before by her mismanagement of the flood that yingluck more or less allowed to happen to destroy the subsidence farmers driving them into debt.


Must be true - look, there is a picture of a thai bird crying. 

You are incredibly gullible mate if you believe everything you read and hear, especially in the mainstream press that has a pro thaksin agenda.  :mid:

----------


## pseudolus

> Fugitive Thai minister says army led government into trap


Must be true then. After all, that bloke has no bias at all, and it is there for all to read in a paper from India.

----------


## Merrimack

*Thailand's Missing Democrats

                                           Reds, Yellows, and the Silent Majority*
Thailand's Missing Democrats | Foreign Affairs


             Thailand is once again under  military rule, following the coup on May 22. The army claims the move  was necessary for restoring order after months of political protest, and  that it will now be pushing through political reforms. The coup will be  interpreted as a success for the antigovernment protesters who have  long demanded that the old government step down and that reforms take  place before a new election is held. 

 The most recent round of political turbulence kicked off earlier this  month when Thailand's constitutional court ousted Prime Minister  Yingluck Shinawatra on the grounds that, in 2011, she had illegally  transferred a senior official from the National Security Council to an  inactive post. Less than seven weeks earlier, the constitutional court  ruled the last general election, which she had won, invalid because the  biggest opposition party, the Democrat Party, had sat it out, and  because voting was disrupted in several places by anti-Yingluck  activists.

 In the days following Yinglucks removal from office, an umbrella  organization of anti-Yingluck protesters called the Peoples Democratic  Reform Council (PDRC), which overlaps with a broader movement called the  Yellow Shirts, has continued to insist that the country is in need of  reform -- namely a crackdown on corruption -- before a meaningful  election can take place. Yingluck supporters, sometimes called Red  Shirts, argue that what Thailand needs, above all, is increased respect  for democratic institutions in general and for election results in  particular.

 Both sides claim that they want to strengthen democracy on behalf of  the Thai people, but what do the Thai people want? As new survey data  show, it isnt necessarily what the activists have in mind. Perhaps  surprisingly, given Thailands years of political turbulence, hard-core  yellow and red activists make up a tiny portion of the countrys  population, and their understandings of democracy are radically  different from each other and from those of the Thai population writ  large. In other words, the political unrest seems to be largely spurred  by a power struggle between two elite groups rather than the Thai  citizenry.

*COUP GROUP*
 Within the span of a few decades, Thailand has experienced regime  change, democratic reform, political unrest, a military coup, and a  substantial reshuffling of the political boards. The story starts after  the economic crisis of the 1990s, which the public partially blamed on  Thailands social and political structures. As a response, the  government decided to reform the constitution. In the first election  under the new constitution, held in 2001, a new party, Thai Rak Thai,  won a landslide victory and the businessman-turned-politician Thaksin  Shinawatra became prime minister. Despite criticism of his corruption,  personalist rule, populist policies, and a disregard for human rights,  he easily won the next election, in 2005, as well. 
 Still, fears about his alleged misuse of power persisted. And, in  2006, after the sale of a telecom company owned by the Shinawatra family  to a foreign investor, Bangkok erupted in widespread protests. Although  the selling had been legal, it was widely considered unethical to sell  out a Thai company to a foreigner. In addition, people were upset that  the capital gains that the already wealthy Shinawatra family made from  the sale were exempt from tax. In response, major public figures,  including the media mogul and talk show host Sondhi Limthongkul, founded  the anti-Shinawatra Peoples Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and organized  public protests with the aim of toppling the prime minister. Shinawatra  dissolved the parliament and called a snap election that he hoped would  legitimize his power. Instead, all the major opposition parties  boycotted the vote.

 The military, which for 15 years had been increasingly divorced from  politics, stepped in. The generals maintained that the military should  not be involved in politics and that they would turn power over to the  people as soon as possible. They banned Thaksins Thai Rak Thai party  and over 100 of its leading members from politics and then drafted a new  constitution, which was passed in a referendum about a year after the  coup. A few days after the new constitution was passed, the  military-installed government announced the date for new elections.

 Thailands politicians got busy realigning and regrouping. Most of  the Thai Rak Thai politicians who were not banned from politics decided  to stand for elections as part of a newly created party, the Peoples  Power Party. That group won the ensuing election with a comfortable  margin. Protests followed. In 2008, the courts stepped in and removed  the elected prime minister, Samak Sundaravej, from power on the charge  of having participated in televised cooking shows, which allegedly  violated rules about conflict of interest. But the protests only  intensified, and in November of 2008, yellow-clad anti-Thaksin  demonstrators associated with the PAD occupied government buildings in  Bangkok. When police tried to disperse the gathering, violence erupted  and hundreds were injured. The PAD went on to occupy the capitals major  international airports, bringing them to a standstill for several days.

 This time, the constitutional court stepped in, banning the governing  party outright. After some politicians defected to the opposition  party, the opposition was able to form a government under Prime Minister  Abhisit Vejjajiva without ever having actually won an election.  Meanwhile, new parties in support of Thaksin kept popping up. In the  spring of 2009, supporters dressed in red managed to suspend an  international ASEAN summit before the military dispersed them. In 2010,  red-shirted demonstrators occupied the streets of the commercial center  of Bangkok. A military intervention ended the siege. All told, the  episode killed 91, injured 1,300, and left $1.25 billion in property  damage. 

 With elections in 2011, a new party, Puea Thai, headed by Yingluck,  Thaksins sister, came to power. Her first years in office were  relatively calm. Against all odds, she convincingly distanced herself  from Thaksin and was able to work with both the palace and the army. In  2013, however, her carefully built credibility crumbled when she pushed  for a controversial amnesty bill for politically related offenses. Among  other things, it would have paved the way for Thaksins return to  Thailand. 

 Not surprisingly, anti-government protests struck in late 2013.  Suthep Thaugsuban, general secretary of the main opposition party and  former deputy prime minister, resigned his parliamentary seat and  assumed the leadership of a new anti-Thaksin movement: the PDRC, which  included the PAD and the Yellow Shirts, among others. The government  called a snap election for February 2, 2014 to ease the conflict, but  the opposition boycotted it as its supporters took to the streets. The  Yingluck government consistently refused to use force against the  protesters and showed remarkable restraint throughout the conflict.

 In any event, the election never took place in many places in Bangkok  and the South -- candidates had been prevented from registering, ballot  boxes and ballot papers had been stopped on their way to the polling  stations, there was a shortage of election officials, and PDRC  demonstrators actively prevented voters from entering polling stations. A  little over a month after the election, in the face of so many  irregularities, the constitutional court ruled the election invalid.
 And that brings us to this month, during which the situation has  rapidly deteriorated. The constitutional court issued its ruling  removing Yingluck from office, but the PDRC vowed to continue their  protests until the entire caretaker government fell. Protests turned  more violent. The army first declared martial law without informing the  government in a half-coup, and then took full power on May 22.

*FREE RADICALS* 
 Observers, including the Thai political scientist Thitinan Pongsudhirak  and the ASEAN expert Kitti Prasertsuk, describe the conflict between  red and yellow in Thailand as one of the countrys deepest societal  divisions. The Yellow Shirt movement is often understood as being  primarily driven by the establishment -- well-off urban people with  royalist sentiments. In contrast, the Red Shirt movement is seen as a  political awakening of rural Thais who are fed up with inequality. A  recent survey makes it possible to compare a special sample of yellow  activists with a special sample of red activists; it shows that it is,  indeed, evident that socioeconomic divisions run deep. Our survey data  confirm that yellow activists tend to have higher incomes than red  activists. Our data also show that yellow activists tend to have more  typically elitist attitudes than red activists: 47 percent of yellows  agree that there should be a minimum educational requirement for the  right to vote, whereas 27 percent of red activists agree. In Thai  politics, such limits on the right to vote are justified as ways to  reduce the role of vote-buying and populism. But it is unclear whether  such measures would help curb corruption. For instance, despite the fact  that candidates for parliament have been constitutionally required to  have at least a bachelors degree in order to be eligible to run for  office since 1997, political corruption is a continual problem in  Thailand. Further, limitations on these rights are difficult to  reconcile with democratic principles. 

 Both groups of activists also view the role of the military very  differently. Among the activists surveyed, yellows are much more likely  than the reds (60 percent compared with 14 percent) to agree with the  statement that the military can take over to govern the country if the  government is not capable. Evidently, the Red Shirts believe that the  military takeovers have never served their purposes. Yellows are less  likely, though, to trust the police. Among the yellow activists, only 21  percent somewhat trust or fully trust the police, whereas among red  activists 47 percent somewhat trust or fully trust the police. The  reason for this difference is simple. It was the police who dispersed  the Yellow Shirt protests in 2008, whereas the army tackled the Red  Shirt protests in 2010. In fact, views on the legitimate use of violence  overall are highly contingent on political color, rather than on  principle. Among the activists, Red Shirts are much more likely than  Yellow Shirts to express the view that the use of violence to stop the  Yellow Shirt demonstration in October 2008 was necessary.  Correspondingly, Yellow Shirt activists are much more likely than the  Red Shirt activists to believe that the use of violence in 2010 was  inevitable. 

 The military is not the only institution that gets involved in Thai  politics. The latest court decision to remove Yingluck from power was  not unprecedented but, rather, one example in a string of court removals  of sitting officials, including three prime ministers. The fact that  court decisions have mainly ousted politicians from one side -- the Red  Shirt side -- has resulted in accusations that courts are politically  biased. Accordingly, in our survey, yellow activists trusted the courts  much more than red activists: 75 percent of the yellows and 30 percent  of the reds somewhat trust or fully trust the courts.

 There is less difference when it comes to other rule-of-law matters.  There were no significant differences between yellow and red activists  for two out of three statements we posed (Corruption is needed to  develop the country and Corruption is acceptable). Our respondents  overwhelmingly disagreed with both. There was a difference, though, when  it came to a third statement, It is OK that politicians are corrupted  if I can get a share of it. Red activists were more likely than yellow  activists to agree (although 86 percent of the red activists still  disagreed). In other words, although a small fraction of the Red Shirt  activists take a more lenient and self-serving view on corruption, they  are still overwhelmingly against it.

*PUBLIC PREFERENCE* 
 Despite their high visibility on the streets of Thailand, both the  Yellow Shirts and the Red Shirts constitute small minorities of the Thai  population. In the random sample of our survey, most people -- 85  percent -- claim that they do not have political views that can be  related to the red-yellow conflict. Only nine percent claim to have a  red inclination and a little more than six percent claim a yellow  inclination. Admittedly, political views are somewhat sensitive in  Thailand, which means that there is likely some underreporting of  political preference. It is clear, though, that those with strong  color-oriented views constitute a small minority, and the activists  within each color grouping an even smaller minority. 

 Those results are similar to the outcome of a survey conducted by the Asia foundation in 2010,  which suggested that a solid majority of Thais are politically neutral  in this sense, while two vocal minorities push for radical political  change in different directions. Activists who have actually attended a  Red Shirt or Yellow Shirt rally are few and far between, less than one  percent of the Thai population. This does not necessarily indicate  widespread political apathy: many more have attended political party  rallies or claim to be interested in discussing politics. It does,  however, indicate that the political conflict is, by and large,  exacerbated by the activities of two vocal minority elites. 

 In addition, the preferences of Thailands silent minority do not  easily align easily with those of any one group. For example, our survey  data confirm that the general population has less elitist attitudes  than the Yellow Shirt activists. Less than 23 percent of the large  majority of the Thai population who do not identify with either the  yellows or reds agree that there should be education requirements for  voting, as compared to the 47 percent of the Yellow Shirt activists. 

 The population at large is, however, in agreement with the yellow  activists in their support of military coups when the government is  incapable of ruling. A full 67 percent of the Thai population who are  neither reds nor yellows think that the military should be able to play  this role. The police also enjoy considerable support among neutral  Thais: 64 percent of that population somewhat trust or fully trust the  police. A sizeable minority of the neutrals condone the use of violence  against protestors as well: 27 percent when the protests in 2008 are  concerned and 31 percent when the protests in 2010 are concerned. Most  neutrals -- 83 percent, in fact -- somewhat trust or fully trust the  courts, and 86 percent believe that corruption is never acceptable. 

 Considering the recent coup, there are, of course, some very worrying  signs. Red shirt activists, with their low trust in the military, are  unlikely to accept this latest blow to the electoral democracy. They  have vowed to fight if political power is once again taken away from  them without elections, and violence is thus a real risk. The  willingness of large parts of the Thai population to support a military  takeover is also not a good sign for the future of Thai democracy.

 But there is also, even in the midst of yet another military coup,  reason to hope. A solid majority of the population seems to not be  swayed by the activists radicalism and considers itself to be neutral.  Further, a large majority of the population does not want to restrict  the popular vote, does not condone corruption or state-sanctioned  violence against any of the political groups, and maintains trust in  legal and law-enforcing institutions. There also seems to be strong  popular support for democracy, which is cause for cautious optimism  about the countrys political future once the military steps back. The  main challenge for Thailand -- and it is a big one -- is to increase the  political influence of the large neutral citizenry, rather than letting  radical activists averse to any kind of compromise steer the political  development to the point that the military steps in.

----------


## thailazer

> Originally Posted by Gerbil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by aging one
> ...


Feels like the pre-game show to me as well.    The real contestants aren't even seen in the arena yet.

----------


## Thormaturge

I doubt whether too many people are crying over Yingluck, but maybe the soldier had friends or even family in the crowd.  

 Pepper spray? Maybe he's a Derby County supporter.....

----------


## Bettyboo

> ^ Stop posting crap...


Only your sanctioned views allowed?

All media sources should be viewed, a balance, the truth is probably somewhere between them... Overload of one source is too much, but that has not happened on this thread, there are a good mix of sources.

The them or us approach taking place over the last few pages is pretty boring... That's what I expect from a Fox News viewer just watching for the sake of reinforcing their already held views. The fact is that the situation is fluid, so just spurting one side or the other is ridiculous.

My views are clear, they are based on a democratic ideology, I was an abhisit supporter, but he threw away the ideology he claimed to have. Now, with this coup in place, which is awful, I see that if they pay the farmers and prosecute the violent protesters on all sides, then that's a positive and my position will move again. 

If the media and political space is closed, the PADites are not prosecuted (not talk about prosecution, but real jail terms...), PT are closed down, a draconian constitution is drafted, corruption abounds, transparency and accountability are completely removed (this is always a problem for a coup, they feel they are above the laws, close media and don't allow debate/criticism) then my views will be reinforced. But, the situation is fluid, so the polarized views that don't allow movement or change, backed up by said posters personal insults to those they don't agree with, is all pretty useless.

It will take time to see what is happening, and one should not forget that the politics of power and controlling the succession is the heart of this saga.

----------


## Yasojack

|Jeez your scraping the barrel there for sure, he commited suicide because he never got paid come on you drama queen, and yingluck i suppose caused the floods as well, nothing at all to do with flooding over the century or previous govts not doing anything about it.




> Originally Posted by Merrimack
> 
> 
> The reuters Photographers explanation: 
> 
> "A teardrop rolls down the face of a soldier, whose unit was deployed to  control protesters against military rule, at Bangkok's shopping district  May 25, 2014. Thailand's military tightened its grip on power on Sunday  as it moved to douse smouldering protests fuelled by social media and  to rally commercial agencies and business to revitalise a battered  economy. REUTERS/Damir Sagolj "
> 
> https://news.yahoo.com/photos/teardr...123858140.html
> 
> ...

----------


## Necron99

> Originally Posted by Necron99
> 
> ^ Stop posting crap...
> 
> 
> Only your sanctioned views allowed?
> 
> All media sources should be viewed, a balance, the truth is probably somewhere between them... Overload of one source is too much, but that has not happened on this thread, there are a good mix of sources.
> 
> ...



It was a 2000 word recount of events we are all well aware of and added nothing but extra wear and tear on mouse wheels.
Crap.

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## Yasojack

I got a sneaky feeling that prayuth could turn out to be not such a bad PM. ::spin::

----------


## Moonraker

The official line of the soldier's tears is that it was caused by pepper spray. 

Now I can't be sure how true that is, but it does highlight just how quickly some people can jump to conclusions and make stuff up to suit them.

----------


## Merrimack

> The official line of the soldier's tears is that it was caused by pepper spray. 
> 
> Now I can't be sure how true that is, but it does highlight just how quickly some people can jump to conclusions and make stuff up to suit them.


I posted a link to that pepper spray earlier but it was deleted. Agree on people making things up.

----------


## cyrille

> The official line of the soldier's tears is that it was caused by pepper spray. 
> 
> Now I can't be sure how true that is, but it does highlight just how quickly some people can...make stuff up to suit them.


...including those formulating 'the official line', of course.

----------


## Bettyboo

*The military is not some white knight who is going to solve all problems….*
http://asiancorrespondent.com/123158...o-save-us-all/

_About 300 men, wearing balaclavas and carrying sticks, knives and guns, went on a terror rampage at Ban Na Nong Bong in Wang Saphung district, from 10pm on May 15 to 5am the following day

he group was led by a man identified as Lt Gen Poramet Pomnak.

Lt Gen Poramet has been implicated in a number of controversies before, including one where he employed a group of men to raid a Bangkok market. He also has close relationship with Gen Kittisak Ratprasert, a former executive of Tungkum.

He was a former Democrat Party candidate in the 1990s, with the New Aspiration Party, and then later joined the PAD (he was the one who filed a lese majeste complaint against Thaksin Shinawatra regarding his chaired a merit-making ceremony at the Temple of Emerald Buddha in 2005). He was selected as the New Politics Party candidate to compete in a by-election in 2010.

A question, do you think the junta will be paying attention to what a lackey of such an anti-Thaksin stalwart is doing? You think this would be seriously on their radar. Politicians are not behind all evil in the country. Putting all your faith in the military who have absolute power now and are not accountable to anyone is not the answer…._

Well worth a full read from this knowledgeable voice who always researches the facts well before reporting them.

----------


## Mr Lick

> I got a sneaky feeling that prayuth could turn out to be not such a bad PM.


 
It would surprise me if he had less integrity than those who went before.

The cries of 'foul' from those who lost out when he took control is not supported by  those who realised that Thai politics was in total disarray and going nowhere fast.  The main protagonist's were given an opportunity to set an agenda to move the country forward and they sadly failed to co-operate.

The general had a contingency plan (a rarity in LoS I believe) and was left with little option but to implement such. He can do no worse than the thieving rabble he replaced.

----------


## khmen

http://livecam.tourismthailand.org/chiang-mai4/

Chiang mai3 | Smart Tourist Cam

Live webcams of Thapae Gate, soldiers currently in formation. 
Photo of same:


Anyone know of any decent Bangkok street webcam sites?

----------


## cyrille

> Well worth a full read


It assumes anyone in favour of the military moving in believes it is a cure all, though, doesn't it.

imo next to nobody believes that.

It's a straw man that has reared its head repeatedly on this thread.

----------


## Loy Toy

^^^ Yep, apart from the bar owners and night-life workers suffering I believe in a macabre type of way he has made the right decisions and for the people of this country.

Let time determine if he is right or wrong.

----------


## Bettyboo

> The main protagonist's were given an opportunity to set an agenda to move the country forward and they sadly failed to co-operate.


I don't agree that's true, Mr Lick. The choice was for the democratically elected government to resign or coup - that's clear from all reports. The PAD got everything they wanted: army coup, interim government, no election, rewrite of constitution, appointments not elections. How is that a choice? suthep's and prayuth's way or coup??? There was no dialog because the coup/PADites offered no choice at all other than totally agree with them...

----------


## cyrille

> There was no dialog because the coup/PADites offered no choice at all other than totally agree with them...


Whilst the reds were releasing doves and inviting yellows to share some tasty chaa and kanom?

PT were in government: it was they who had the opportunity to initiate dialogue.

----------


## Bettyboo

^they were the elected party, and they were simply asking for another election to let the people decide. It's that simple...




> It's a straw man that has reared its head repeatedly on this thread.


I wouldn't agree. It's a reminder of the dangers of allowing an armed group who are above the law, have no accountability or transparency take power.

Also, this commentator has over many years proven to be one of the most reliable, honest, balanced and well researched. He is no red, he is no Thaksin supporter.

----------


## Merrimack

Press conference only had two questions before general took off

----------


## cyrille

> they were the elected party, and they were simply asking for another election to let the people decide. It's that simple...


You're talking about elections now.

Before you were talking about dialogue.

Dialogue was for the ruling pt party to initiate if that was what they wanted.

----------


## Merrimack

*Thomas Fuller*     ‏@*thomasfullerNYT*

                                 "Thailand's Nation newspaper calls for more media freedom but does not condemn the jailing of its own reporter"

Article... 

The Nation reporter taken into custody - The Nation

----------


## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> they were the elected party, and they were simply asking for another election to let the people decide. It's that simple...
> 
> 
> You're talking about elections now.
> 
> Before you were talking about dialogue.
> 
> Dialogue was for the ruling pt party to initiate if that was what they wanted.


But PAD wanted no dialog, it was very clear, they have been voicing it for 6+ months - no elections, PT out of politics, coup, appointments only, etc, how can you have dialog when one side just have to refuse it and they get their way - coup...

It's a strange comment you made there, Cyrille, because the dialog was about elections; the two were fully connected; of course I'm talking about both.

----------


## Moonraker

> Originally Posted by Moonraker
> 
> The official line of the soldier's tears is that it was caused by pepper spray. 
> 
> Now I can't be sure how true that is, but it does highlight just how quickly some people can...make stuff up to suit them.
> 
> 
> ...including those formulating 'the official line', of course.


Of course.

I'm not trying to say it's true, just pointing out we don't know what's true.  :Wink:

----------


## cyrille

> But PAD wanted no dialog


Agreed.

Nobody did.

That's why a coup was the only answer.

----------


## Moonraker

> ^they were the elected party, and they were simply asking for another election to let the people decide. It's that simple...


Great idea, because elections were really helping to solve the problem....

----------


## Bettyboo

^& ^^ 

It's not the only answer, it's the answer that the PADites have wanted all along. An election would be an answer too, but let's not forget that the dems and PAD have systematically broken down the chances of an election over the last 6 months.

How strange is it for a major party, the dems, to just have no policies and refuse to take part in elections, as a habit???

^ If the dems were a functioning political party, if they had policies and ran in an election then it'd be a great idea. Now, twice, they have forced a coup by refusing to be a political party - nice job if you can get away with it. "Elections, ok if we will win, but if we won't win then we on't participate, we'll get a coup to appoint us and our group instead..."

It was virtually impossible to have an election now, I agree. But, that wasn't just chance, it was constructed...

----------


## taxexile

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> But PAD wanted no dialog
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> Nobody did.
> 
> That's why a coup was the only answer.



It was obvious back in november when this clusterfuck kicked off that there was never going to be any dialogue and that the longer it went on for the greater the propensity for inconvenience to the public and violence from the meathead fringegroups.

Thats why some posters with a more realistic and grounded understanding of the situation, myself included :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  , were calling for the generals to intervene 
right from day one.

----------


## pseudolus

> |Jeez your scraping the barrel there for sure, he commited suicide because he never got paid come on you drama queen, and yingluck i suppose caused the floods as well, nothing at all to do with flooding over the century or previous govts not doing anything about it.


Indeed - Scraping the barrel, emulating the style of merrimack with his Tears for Yingluck post. 




> Agree on people making things up


Yes - stop it. Posting up quote after quote from amateur commentators and expecting that to sum up the mood of the nation is futile, especailly when they are from Farangs, and doubly when they are farangs working for the main stream western media who have doubtless not been to Thailand and if they have, have not stepped outside of the FCC. 

Mood on the street? Well, as far as I can tell, most Thai's are getting on with life and don't give a toss. Same same.

----------


## Merrimack

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> |Jeez your scraping the barrel there for sure, he commited suicide because he never got paid come on you drama queen, and yingluck i suppose caused the floods as well, nothing at all to do with flooding over the century or previous govts not doing anything about it.
> 
> 
> Indeed - Scraping the barrel, emulating the style of merrimack with his Tears for Yingluck post. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good sounds like you know it all. Go play in the lounge.

----------


## pseudolus

> Good sounds like you know it all. Go play in the lounge


Thing is, mate, whilst you are playing, some realise is it not a game. It is deadly serious.

----------


## Mr Lick

> How strange is it for a major party, the dems, to just have no policies


 
2006 - Abhisit promised a "People's Agenda," with education as the main focus. He used the campaign slogan "Putting People First." He also vowed not to privatize basic utilities such as water and electricity, and to nationalize state enterprises that Thaksin had privatized.[56] Regarding core elements of the so-called "Thaksinomics", Abhisit promised "the benefits from certain populist policies, such as the 30-Baht healthcare scheme, the Village Fund and the SML (Small Medium Large) scheme, will not be revoked but instead improved." He later urged that Thaksin's popular 30-Baht health care scheme should be replaced with a system where access to medical services was totally free.[57] Abhisit stated that all future Democrat MPs would have to declare their assets and any involvement in private companies. (By law, only members of the cabinet needed to declare their assets


He outlined several energy policies, including increasing dividend payments from state-owned oil company PTT and using the funds to repay Oil Fund debts, and having state-owned electric utility EGAT absorb part of the rising fuel prices.[59] Abhisit later outlined plans to reduce retail petrol prices by eliminating the 2.50 baht/litre tax used to maintain the government's Oil Fund.[60]


In office - To help the people, Abhisit subsidized the price of diesel, LPG cooking gas, and household electricity. Public bus and train rides were provided for free

Abhisit also promised many populist policies including providing free education, textbooks, milk, and supplemental foods for nursery school students and increasing the minimum wage



Abhisit Vejjajiva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

----------


## Thormaturge

> Abhisit also promised many populist policies including providing free education, textbooks, milk.......


 The last I read, approximately half of Thailand's population is lactose intolerant.

----------


## nevets

Bangkok Post   Suthep up on murder charges.

----------


## Bettyboo

> 2006 - Abhisit promised a "People's Agenda,"


He pulled out of that election, forcing a coup. If he had policies then take them to the voting booth.




> In office - To help the people, Abhisit subsidized the price of diesel, LPG cooking gas, and household electricity. Public bus and train rides were provided for free


Were these his policies or a continuation of Samak's? Certainly the transportation one was Samak's. The others also seem to be continuation of other people's, other party's policies. Not saying that's bad in itself, but the wording of that article suggests he introduced these policies.




> Abhisit also promised many populist policies including providing free education, textbooks, milk, and supplemental foods for nursery school students and increasing the minimum wage


Why not take them to the voting booth then?

The problem with the dems seems to be they have no spoken ideology as a platform for their policies, they just appear to do what the PAD/army tell them to. Thailand is screaming out for a new party that is corruption free, practices what it preaches, and has a real vision for the development of Thailand. Why can't abhisit do that? He's a 22 year politician, supposed to be intelligent, well educated, believe in democracy - prove it, take the dems to the polling booth and win...

----------


## KimDidMeGood

> Originally Posted by cyrille
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> ...


And now that Generals seized power, everything is solved and the country is magically back to unity, prosperity and stability?

Rather the opposite, if you ask me...

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## Bettyboo

> myself included , were calling for the generals to intervene 
> right from day one.


You and suthep...

Nationalism, patronage, a fully feudal system, do you want all of that, Tax?

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## buriramboy

Former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban, leader of the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC), was indicted in the Criminal Court on charges of murder and attempted murders for allegedly ordering the military crackdown on red-shirt protesters in 2010, causing 98 deaths and hundreds of injuries. 

Former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva had earlier been indicted on the same charges.

Mr Suthep was escorted by soldiers to report to the prosecution to hear the charges after being released on Monday morning by the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO).  He denied the charges.

He was later formally indicted in the Criminal Court.

His lawyer applied for his release on bail, submitting a bank deposit passbook of 600,000 baht as surety.  The court approved the bail request.

Mr Suthep is required to report to the court for the first hearing on July 28.

Former deputy PM charged over 2010 protest deaths | Bangkok Post: Most recent

----------


## Mr Lick

> Were these his policies or a continuation of Samak's?


It would appear that Samak's main policies were to moonlight from his responsibility as leader of the nation to illegally receive a salary from hosting a televised cookery program and also rob the nation of 300 million baht on an emergency services transportation scam.

No surpises there really  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Merrimack

How can former case and harges still exist when their is a coup? Seems like the coup makers are arresting people at will. They toss the constitution yet these old charges still exist? There are civilian courts and there aren't. Laws and no laws. Did anyone ever get tried for the deaths of all those muslims down south in 2004? The military was responsible for that. Did anyone involved see jail time? Seems like that just faded away. Over 70 deaths as a result of incompetent or cruel military officers. Whatever. A Coup = their rules. The Thai military like the US military can do no wrong.

----------


## Bettyboo

> It would appear that Samak's main policies were to moonlight from his responsibility as leader of the nation to illegally receive a salary from hosting a televised cookery program and also rob the nation of 300 million baht on an emergency services transportation scam.
> 
> No surpises there really


Samak was a nightmare, one of the very worst of Thai style politicians, but his cooking show slot was nothing, come on, Mr Lick...

While I'm sure he stole loads and loads over the decades, and he was a horrible part of the 73 slaughter, the emergency vehicles was also part of the Bkk dem governors problems. Samak is a good example of the problem, a typical PADite royalist that worked for Thaksin for a large sum, no doubt, to try and get the royalists on side. They have no integrity or moral identity at all - 

Edit: forced by that bloody Mr Lick...  :Smile:

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## Mr Lick

> and it all comes from the patronage system... __________________


 


Rule Britannia  :Smile:

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## Mr Lick

I'm not too sure given that her son called Putin a Nazi only last week  :Smile:

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## hillbilly

As a side note where many of the protestors have been taken is known as Theves Road. In Thai it sounds more like Thieves Road...

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## Waid

Find it odd that many posters support takeover by a gang of organised thugs. No matter how the thugs try to dress up the situation, it is High Treason.

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## cyrille

> As a side note where many of the protestors have been taken is known as Theves Road. In Thai it sounds more like Thieves Road...


In Thai it sounds absolutely nothing whatsoever like 'Thieves Road'.

It's pronounced more like _'Tewet'_.

----------


## xanax

> Find it odd that many posters support takeover by a gang of organised thugs. No matter how the thugs try to dress up the situation, it is High Treason.


Not as bad on here as on TV, they are falling over themselves to praise the coup, of course they would be horrified if such illegality were to take place in their own countries. The last Govt should have arrested and put on trial those responsible for the 2006 coup, instead we had the reconciliation nonsense and they got away with it. Those responsible this time should end up facing charges.

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## pseudolus

I agree. Along with all the corrupt pt scum as well.

----------


## pickel

Can somebody give a basic translation for this. It comes from TratTV's facebook.



> รวบเครือข่ายเสื้อแดงตราดเชื่อมโยงคดีขว้างระเบิดและ  ยิงกลุ่มกปปส.ตราดจับได้ 2 คนทหารพรานพลีชีพ 1 ศพ รองผบ.กปช.จต.บอกให้รายละเอียดมากไม่ได้กลัวถูกตัดตอ  น,พบเสื้อแดงและผ้าคาดหัวพร้อมรถยนต์"
> 
>       เวลา ประมาณ 10.00 น.วันที่ 26 พฤษภาคม 2557 ร้อยเวรสอบสวน สภ.เขาสมิง ได้รับแจ้งว่ามีเหตุยิงปะทะระหว่างคนร้ายและทหารพราน  นาวิกโยธินและมีทหาร เสียชีวิต 1 คน ที่บ้านเลขที่ 25 หมู่ 3 ต.ประณีต อ.เขาสมิง จ.ตราด ที่เป็นของนายณรงค์ กระจ่างแสง อายุประมาณ 40 ปี ที่เป็นเกษตรกรปลูกผลไม้
> 
>  เมื่อเดินทางไปถึงพบชุดทหารนาวิกโยธินจากกองกำลังป้อ  งกันจันทบุรีตราด(กปช.จต.) มีพลเรือตรีนพพร วุฒิรณฤทธ์ รองผบ.กปช.จต.อยู่ในที่เกิดเหตุพร้อมน.อ.เลอศัก  ดิ์ คชนันท์ ผบ.หน่วยเฉพาะกิจนาวิกโยธินตราด และกำลังทหารนาวิกโยธินชุดคอมมอนโด รวมทั้งทหารพรานจากชุดควบคุมทหาร  พรานนาวิกโยธินที่ 1 อ.บ่อไร่(ชค.ทพ.นย.ที่ 1 ) นำโดยน.อ.สุบรร ดีนอก  หัวหน้าชค.ทพ.นย.ที่ 1 จำนวนนับ100 คนอยู่ในที่เกิดเหตุที่เป็นสวนผลไม้ ห่างจากบ้าน 100 เมตร พบศพของอาสาสมัครทหารพรายนาวิโยธินสังกัดชค.ทพ.นย.ที  ่ 1 (บ่อไร่)นอนเสียชีวิตในลักษณะ นอนหงาย ที่ใบหน้ามีรอยกระสุนปืน 2 นัดยิงทะลุท้ายทอย ห่างจากศพพบปลอกกระสุนปืนลูกซอง 3 ปลอกตกอยู่ประมาณ 8 เมตร ทราบชื่อว่า อาสาสมัครทหารพรานวุฒินันท์ ศรีประสิทธิ อายุ 25 ปี บ้านเดิมอยู่ที่ อ.เมือง จ.สุรินทร์
> 
>  โดยก่อนเกิดเหตุฝ่ายข่าวกรองทหารได้สืบทราบว่ามีคนร้  าย 3 คนเดินทางหลบหนีมาอาศัยอยู่ในบ้านหลังดังกล่าว จึงได้นำกำลังทหารนาวิกโยธิน และอาสาสมัครทหารพรานจากชค.ทพ.นย.ที่ 1 (บ่อไร่)เดินทางมาปิดล้อมบ้านหลังดังกล่าว และสามารถจับคนร้ายได้ 2 คน แต่คนร้ายอีก 1 คนยังหลบอยู่ในสวนผลไม้ จึงได้ให้น.อ.สุบรร ดีนอกนำกำลังทหารพรานเข้าทำการปิดล้อม แต่คนร้ายที่ซุ่มอยู่ในกอกล้วยเห็นผู้ตายลาดตะเวนเข้  ามาใกล้และออกนอกแถวจึงยิงด้วยอาวุธปืนลูกซองจนเสียช  ีวิต
> 
>  พลเรือตรีนพพร กล่าวว่า ทางหน่วยงานข่าวทหารได้แจ้งว่ามีคนร้ายเข้ามาอาศัยใน  บ้านหลังดังกล่าวและเชื่อมโยงกับกลุ่มที่ขว้างระเบิด  และใช้อาวุธสงครามยิงใส่กลุ่มกปปส.ตราดที่ชุมนุมเมื่  อวันที่ 22 กุมภาพันธ์  2557 แต่ยังไม่สามารถระบุในรายละเอียดได้ ซึ่งคนร้ายได้ใช้อาวุธปืนลูกซองยิงทหารพรานเสียชีวิต  ไป 1 คน แต่อีก 2 คนถูกจับได้ ซึ่งต้องขอร้องว่าทหารยังไม่สามารถให้รายละเอียดทั้ง  หมดได้ในขณะนี้ เพียงให้ขอมูลคราวๆไปก่อนเนื่องจากอาจเกิดการฆ่าตัดต  อนก่อนทำให้ไม่สามารถเชื่อมโยงถึงคนบงการได้ สำหรับคนร้าย 2 คนที่ถูกจับไป 2 คนก่อนหน้านี้ในวันที่ 24 พฤษภาคม 2557  และมีความเชื่อมโยงกันด้วย
> ...

----------


## robuzo

> Find it odd that many posters support takeover by a gang of organised thugs. No matter how the thugs try to dress up the situation, it is High Treason.


Maybe some of them like to fantasize about convenient it would be to be able to point a gun at people they disagree with and tell them to STFU and do what they are told. Because that is exactly what the coup amounts to.

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## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Waid
> 
> 
> Find it odd that many posters support takeover by a gang of organised thugs. No matter how the thugs try to dress up the situation, it is High Treason.
> 
> 
> Maybe some of them like to fantasize about convenient it would be to be able to point a gun at people they disagree with and tell them to STFU and do what they are told. Because that is exactly what the coup amounts to.


Correct, no gun no coup

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## Dandyhole

Wonder how suthep is feeling right now, reality dawned perhaps, "he knows to much"

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## robuzo

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Waid
> ...


Because no moral authority or legitimacy. Feudalism really scraping the barrel at the moment, all they have left is violence and the threat thereof.

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## Tom Sawyer

Disturbing developments at Victory Monument protest this evening (now over). The Army's PsyOps (trucks with loudspeakers) among other messages were telling the crowds "foreign media are bad" and "they just take the money and then go".. Samantha Hawley tweeted as did a couple of others on this. Barrow said no foreigner should go there at that time.

Is this a one-off? Or is it the beginning of a Junta vilification of the foreign media and maybe foreigners (westerners) in general?

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## nidhogg

Let us see if we can work it another way that does not offend the sensibilities of some (deleted) mod.





> Find it odd that many posters support takeover by a gang of organised thugs. No matter how the thugs try to dress up the situation, it is High Treason.


Please explain how it can be "high treason": when:


https://teakdoor.com/thailand-the-roy...r-without.html (M King Endorses Coup Leader Without Attending Ceremony)

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## pickel

^^
When I go through the checkpoints well after curfew, they merely smile and wave me through, so I guess they haven't got their orders yet. Or, you could just be paranoid.

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## Tom Sawyer

> ^^
> When I go through the checkpoints well after curfew, they merely smile and wave me through, so I guess they haven't got their orders yet. Or, you could just be paranoid.


Yeah well on Koh Chang I guess there ain't much to do these days is there. Howz business pal? The soldiers are likely just happy to see ANYONE coming through even you -- snigger

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## leemo

This coup is far more lethal than the last, because among other incredibly undemocratic objectives it aims to destroy the Thaksin dynasty. 

Anyone invested in the SET take note: when the patience of the international community finally wears thin screens will turn to blood as the evil farang starts thumping at the sell button. 

I'm of a mind to piss off, just about had enough with buffalo people, governing monkeys and ruling lizards.

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## robuzo

> ^^
> When I go through the checkpoints well after curfew, they merely smile and wave me through, so I guess they haven't got their orders yet. Or, you could just be paranoid.


Do it wearing a T-shirt with ไพร่ printed on it. Please.

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## Tom Sawyer

^^^
except the guys you see with the guns are just some Isan son who drew the short straw, and doesn't want to be there, while (ironically) the guys who profit and want this coup come from families who PAID to get their son into an officer's position to get a ticket on the Thai Amart/Military Gravy Train. The grunts don't deserve to be targeted, while the officers hide in the background and count their money. But that's where we're at.

Prayuth knows how dangerous this moment is.. If the troops turned against the officers by refusing to attack the people it would be really bloody, of course he and the Amart officers would eventually win, but that would be a disaster that could bring everything down in the weeks that would follow. That's why he needs to be very, very careful right now. He may be a hot head, but he's not stupid - nor are his advisers (well most of them one would think).

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## buriramboy

Hard to argue with this.....

Turdsak Numsakul Esq ‏@bkkbase  · 2m  
Imagine how dumb the average ThaiVisa user is. Now imagine them commenting on the coup. That's twitter. #ThaiCoup

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## robuzo

> ^^^
> except the guys you see with the guns are just some Isan son who drew the short straw, and doesn't want to be there, while (ironically) the guys who profit and want this coup come from families who PAID to get their son into an officer's position to get a ticket on the Thai Amart/Military Gravy Train. The grunts don't deserve to be targeted, while the officers hide in the background and count their money. But that's where we're at.


Well then, Tom, the grunts are just going to have decide to which direction their guns should be turned.

I'd be surprised were they use Isaan-born soldiers in Isaan or even to suppress red demonstrations. Normally in situations in which the military uses troops on its own people they take care to use troops from a separate region.

One thing we should keep in mind is that rank and file troops are not generally well-trained in crowd control or policing- that sort of thing is best left to actual police. The Americans have made this mistake repeatedly in their imperial adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. I hope these lads don't start to get twitchy or lose their minds as their brains boil inside their helmets under the midday sun.

In any case, in my opinion confronting the military directly in a contest of force in the capital is a fool's errand. Better to create a stronghold in a place more sympathetic to the cause. The big lizards have clearly been worried about the reds doing just this: http://asiancorrespondent.com/49429/...-a-new-threat/ A new cavalry unit in Thailand’s north-east: Old wish, new threat?

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## Tom Sawyer

^
Yeah agree. I reckon that's why that kid was crying.

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## nidhogg

> This coup is far more lethal than the last, because among other incredibly undemocratic objectives it aims to destroy the Thaksin dynasty.


And that is probably a great deal of the problem.  PT attempts to be a dynasty instead of a political party.  You think that the appointments of Somchai (his brother in law) and Yingluck his "sister" as Pt leaders is of no significance?

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## Rural Surin

> Disturbing developments at Victory Monument protest this evening (now over). The Army's PsyOps (trucks with loudspeakers) among other messages were telling the crowds "foreign media are bad" and "they just take the money and then go".. Samantha Hawley tweeted as did a couple of others on this. Barrow said no foreigner should go there at that time.
> 
> Is this a one-off? Or is it the beginning of a Junta vilification of the foreign media and maybe foreigners (westerners) in general?


Rather to be expected, dontcha think?

Especially these days with so much info access available.....
Not so much the foreign press - but Thai-based/Thai language alternative sources. There is loads of it.

And they can't censor it all. These goons don't know how to monitor.

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## pickel

> Do it wearing a T-shirt with ไพร่ printed on it. Please.


That's more Betty and Tom's style, perhaps you should propose that to them.

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## Rural Surin

> Hard to argue with this.....
> 
> Turdsak Numsakul Esq ‏@bkkbase · 2m 
> Imagine how dumb the average ThaiVisa user is. Now imagine them commenting on the coup. That's twitter. #ThaiCoup


Heh..... :Smile:

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> ...


I agree with what they're saying - most of the western journalists are completely ignorant to what's going on and covering only what they're told to, which in turn is interpreted to suit the agenda.

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## cyrille

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by cyrille
> ...


Yes Kim, that was exactly our point of course.

Can I just ask - what gave it away?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> ...


The western media, for the most part (NYT, BBC, ABC Aus, Al Jazeera, Economist) are the precious few getting the story right.

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## FloridaBorn

> ^
> Yeah agree. I reckon that's why that kid was crying.


Yes that display of emotion can be a double edged sword, meaning he can go either way, possibly close to cracking under the pressure, potentially scary scenario.

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## BaitongBoy

> Yeah well on Koh Chang I guess there ain't much to do these days is there. Howz business pal? The soldiers are likely just happy to see ANYONE coming through even you -- snigger


That's funny, actually...Probably just have a couple of soldiers on the big island...

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## Yasojack

This coup has been well planned in advance

Private sector lauds NCPO

Private sector lauds NCPO’s economic roadmap
in Business | May 26, 2014	 (156 views)  
Test 
The economic roadmap revealed by the National Council for Peace and Order receives support from the private sector with the Thai Chamber of Commerce and the Federation of Thai Industries (FTI) saying it could help bolster economy and stimulate growth.
Thai Chamber of Commerce vice president Somkiat Anuras said he was confident that investors’ confidence in the country’s economy would improve after tensions among conflicting sides have eased following the coup.

He said the NCPO’s economic roadmap has shed light on the gloomy Thai economy and enhance the people’s confidence.

“We have studied the NCPO’s economic roadmap and we can say  that the NPCO’s  has done good homework  in the roadmap. The sooner the eight-point roadmap is implemented, the better the Thai economy will be.”

He also said the joint effort of the NCPO and the Bank for Agriculture and Agriculture Cooperative (BAAC) to resolve overdue payment worth 90 billion baht for rice farmers sold under the previous government’s rice pledging scheme will help improve the economy as the amount of money circulating in the market will increase to some 300-400 billion baht.

The spending could help to boost the economy to grow at 3% this year in contrast to earlier projections of 1.5% by private and public sectors.

The Thai Chamber of Commerce will hold talks with seven other private organizations to forge an economy strategy and propose it to the NCPO, he said, adding that he would also call the NCPO to allow general elections to form a civilian government as soon as possible.

FTI President Suphan Mongkholsuthee also hailed the NCPO’s economic roadmap, saying the NCPO  has shown strong determination to solve  the country’s economic problems.

He said the FTI plans to propose its economic stimulus plan to the NCPO.

The plan seeks to restructure seven aspects, including education, investment, society, civil servant regulations and innovations.

It will also ask the NCPO to grant authority to the Board of Investment of Thailand (BoI) to consider mega investment projects and BoI’s sub-committee to consider medium projects.

Power Buy, a leading electrical appliance retailer senior marketing director Ms Sangthip Amornchat, also viewed political tension has eased after the NCPO seized power from the caretaker government without any violence.

She said the NCPO’s economic roadmap will help boost people’s confidence and purchasing power and stimulate the economy.

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## tomta

Roadmap.. Roadmap... Roadmap. I seem to hear Abhisit using that same word. 


[QUOTE="Yasojack"]“We have studied the NCPO’s economic roadmap and we can say that the NPCO’s has done good homework in the roadmap. The sooner the eight-point roadmap is implemented, the better the Thai economy will be.” 


What business of theirs was it for the army to be making roadmaps? They could have put their roadmap to the people in an election if they were interested in this sort of thing. Where did it come from? How long have they had it? Why didn't they put it up for discussion? Why were they doing homework on this roadmap?


Good to hear that all the corporations love the roadmap. I wonder if they'll find a way to get rid of that nasty 300 baht minimum wage which has completely fucked the economy.

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## Troy

> He said the NCPO’s economic roadmap has shed light on the gloomy Thai economy and enhance the people’s confidence.


With a gun pointing at his head?

Where is this 8-point plan and does it include a time-line?

The longer the Junta stay in charge the further Thailand will sink. They best be gone by Christmas...

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## Yasojack

Tomta maybe fucked you,but certainly not fucked the people who deserve a living wage, more money in wage more money to spend, more money for govt coffers.

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## pickel

> That's funny, actually...Probably just have a couple of soldiers on the big island...


About a dozen actually, what's your point?

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## cyrille

> Roadmap.. Roadmap... Roadmap. I seem to hear Abhisit using that same word.


Very commonly used word these days.

Not sure what your point is.

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## tomta

> Tomta maybe fucked you,but certainly not fucked the people who deserve a living wage, more money in wage more money to spend, more money for govt coffers.


Irony, Yasojack

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## tomta

[QUOTE="cyrille"]Very commonly used word these days.  Not sure what your point is.[/QUOTE

My point , Cyrille, is that the army claims to be a neutral body that was "forced" by the exigencies of the moment into holding a coup that would prevent violence. We now learn that they have somewhat well prepared economic and social plans. What we were told was that a couple of days ago, they had "invited" various sides of this conflict to participate in discussions under the "martial law" - not of course a coup that they had imposed - just a means to get the various sides to talk to each other. After seven months of conflict on the streets - essentially overseen and controlled by the army - they gave them two hours to talk and when agreement was not forthcoming, they seized power.  And now it seems that they have "roadmaps", policies, probably a couple of populist plans, lots of money for the poor rice farmers. This was planned and very imperfectly executed.

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## Exit Strategy

Only support internationally for the military coup is from Australia, not govt but major commerial: ANZ. Bloomberg: ANZ:AU (It's Australia and New Zealand Banking Group Limited) Some here said US is to blame for all world's problems, however now US is strongly against military coup. But Aus ANZ is fully endorsing military coup, are they clininally insane announcing that now, could have waited a couple of weeks, no, now they calculated it is bigger win to to get all that "goodwill" from military junta... ok. 

FU ANZ no business with you for 6 generations... 

Part of the story
Boost for ANZ's Thai banking plan despite coup
"Today Asian expansion is a key objective for the bank, which aims to generate 25 to 30 per cent of its profit from outside Australia and New Zealand by 2017.bThe approval comes after the Thai military this month wrested control of the country's government, sparking mass protests across the country. The Prime Minister and Finance Minister were both removed by the country's Constitutional Court.

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## terry57

A few people are getting all excited because the military through a Coup.

The protesters where banging on for 7 months without a result and things where dead locked.

Off course the Army was going to come in under these circumstances.

If anything they should be congratulated for staying out of it for so long. 

As for the International media, just treat them with contempt as they will sensationalize anything for a story. 

Anyway things are progressing nicely so far, farmers are getting payed for their rice and no mass killings. 

Maybe tomorrow EH.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Exit Strategy

> most of the western journalists are completely ignorant to what's going on


not sure about that... you do know better?

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## Exit Strategy

> they should be congratulated for staying out of it for so long.


Enjoy your curfew and restrictions

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## koman

> But Aus ANZ is fully endorsing military coup, are they clininally insane announcing that now, could have waited a couple of weeks, no, now they calculated it is bigger win to to get all that "goodwill" from military junta... ok.


Huh?....I read the article and damned if I can see where they are endorsing anything other than the license to operate in Thailand which was granted by the government, before it was deposed.   The deal was probably years in the making....and it's business, not politics.  

 Barclays PLC was busy financing Argentina when it was fighting the British military in the Falklands war......you can't have silly war's, coups and suchlike shit interrupting a good business deal..... :Smile:

----------


## taxexile

> FU ANZ no business with you for 6 generations...


Yeah, great idea. Stop doing business with thailand. No more imports, no more investment, trade sanctions, no orders for the factories. Lay off a few hundred thousand thai workers so they have to return to their parched rice fields.

----------


## terry57

> Enjoy your curfew and restrictions



Makes absolutely no difference to me or the majority of expats in Thailand.

The ones who are effected are the ones trying to run a business and maybe a few hard core mongers wanting to troll bars in certain areas.

No big deal is it.

----------


## Thormaturge

> The ones who are effected are the ones trying to run a business


For us the coup is superb business.  If anything banking restrictions will be tightened even more and what is left of our Thai competitors will go to the wall.  The curfew makes no difference at all, and I am usually in bed by 9.00pm since I rise around 5.30am most days.  

All Hail emperor Prayuth and long may he reign.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> As for the International media, just treat them with contempt as they will sensationalize anything for a story. 
> 
> Anyway things are progressing nicely so far, farmers are getting paid for their rice and no mass killings.


How about local journalists being pulled off the streets and held without charge - on the supposition they _might_ write something unfavourable about creeping totalitarianism.  Not a good indicator, is it?

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Originally Posted by Exit Strategy
> 
> But Aus ANZ is fully endorsing military coup, are they clininally insane announcing that now, could have waited a couple of weeks, no, now they calculated it is bigger win to to get all that "goodwill" from military junta... ok.
> 
> 
> Huh?....I read the article and damned if I can see where they are endorsing anything other than the license to operate in Thailand which was granted by the government, before it was deposed.   The deal was probably years in the making....and it's business, not politics.  
> 
>  Barclays PLC was busy financing Argentina when it was fighting the British military in the Falklands war......you can't have silly war's, coups and suchlike shit interrupting a good business deal.....


As I said, it was partly in that article, more on somewhere not allowed here... bloomberg , independent. 

I am not sure about your Barclays thing. If they were financing Argentinians? They should have been taken over. And would have. In the the end, Argie were beaten, banking transactions do not come into that, it was military.

----------


## terry57

> How about local journalists being pulled off the streets and held without charge - on the supposition they _might_ write something unfavorable about creeping totalitarianism.  Not a good indicator, is it?



That has not happened to every local reporter. 

Only the Few.  Cant say why though.    Maybe more to it. ??

----------


## Exit Strategy

> FU ANZ no business with you for 6 generations...
> 			
> 		
> 
> Yeah, great idea. Stop doing business with thailand. No more imports, no more investment, trade sanctions, no orders for the factories. Lay off a few hundred thousand thai workers so they have to return to their parched rice fields.


No, FU just this one - there are many better ones, Aus and NZ banks

----------


## Seekingasylum

> FU ANZ no business with you for 6 generations...
> 			
> 		
> 
> Yeah, great idea. Stop doing business with thailand. No more imports, no more investment, trade sanctions, no orders for the factories. Lay off a few hundred thousand thai workers so they have to return to their parched rice fields.


Err, getting a tad excited there, Tax.

There are currently 2 million Burmese migrants working here and God knows how many Cambos.

The problem with the labour supply is that a significant proportion of Thai Isaanites are jobbing journeymen who elect to spend much of their time in the boonies where their land is. This land is of course virtually useless in a dynamic economy but provides a source of subsidy for a significant part of the labour force which has now recognised it is a player in the political stakes of this country.

Talk about the tail now wagging the dog. Economic development is founded on trade and manufacturing with agriculture contributing only 8.5 % to GDP, less than tourism in a good year.

Rather think that puts the whole rural poor thing into perspective. If the unemployed and less than industrious of Isaan wanted to they could improve their lot by seeking proper employment elsewhere in the economy. But they don't, much preferring to spend their time in feckless indolence funded by subsidy and loans.

Fact of life but I dare say many of the vacuous commentators here, like most of the Western press, reject it much preferring their emotional baggage to sustain them.

----------


## taxexile

Burmese, cambo, or thai. Makes no difference.

They need jobs and income, economic sanctions based on debateable moral values will hurt the ones that need help the most.

----------


## Pragmatic

> If the unemployed and less than industrious of Isaan wanted to they could improve their lot by seeking proper employment elsewhere in the economy. But they don't, much preferring to spend their time in feckless indolence funded by subsidy and loans.


Can't get a cleaner here in the village. No alternative but to look at employing Burmese.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Same in my wife's village. The folk are there, nevertheless, it's just that the income through loans and rice subsidy seems to sustain them. The young are a complete washout and simply ponce off their parents, loll about or disappear to the nearby town to hang around there. Work is fitful and subsistence orientated to fund that time lolling about.

The career path towards easier money by ensnaring a farang is definitely perceived as the main route to success.

----------


## xanax

These villages seem to vary from area to area. In the mrs large Khamin village there is only one girl known to have ever sold her arse in the sex trade. All the kids I have seen have gone on to be pharmacists, engineers, teachers, office workers and many noodle sellers, all around Trat for some reason. The noodle sellers can make 100k a month in a good location. What will happen in the future though as very few seem willing to work the land like their parents have.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Originally Posted by Exit Strategy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy your curfew and restrictions
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have to agree with that generally - as long as you don't want to exit your condo after 10p. I think there was lot of traffic last night after 10pm but can't be sure perhaps I was dreaming. I am sure they were all military vehicles. But business is hit. Here is no military presence except 3 humvees and 8/12 patrol near govt place on the big road. They are friendly. Suk and Silom might be different. 

And most foreigners are not invited to Army Club, so Keep Calm And Stay Out.

----------


## cyrille

> And most foreigners are not invited to Army Club


You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...




> This was planned and very imperfectly executed.


Of course it was planned.

Is it worrisome that it wasn't a spur of the moment thing?

In the circumstances?

Really?

----------


## Pragmatic

> The career path towards easier money by ensnaring a farang is definitely perceived as the main route to success.


True. Parents here are paying 30,000+ Baht for introductions to farang on the internet for their daughters.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Does anyone know if Pattaya or the islands are actually enforcing this curfew? I'm not bothered by Hua Hin since that place seems to have operated its own curfew for years, but it would be nice to know the actualite. If it is I am seriously considering a week in Penang.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...


As a falang better you never check in

----------


## Loy Toy

> Does anyone know if Pattaya or the islands are actually enforcing this curfew?


Yes, here in Pattaya the BIB have been quite serious about enforcing the curfew in fact ordering some bars closed much earlier than the 10.00pm deadline.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Thank you for that Loy Toy. A bit disappointed but I should imagine the head honchos are bound to be looking over their shoulders for the time being.

----------


## koman

> These villages seem to vary from area to area. In the mrs large Khamin village there is only one girl known to have ever sold her arse in the sex trade. All the kids I have seen have gone on to be pharmacists, engineers, teachers, office workers and many noodle sellers, all around Trat for some reason. The noodle sellers can make 100k a month in a good location. What will happen in the future though as very few seem willing to work the land like their parents have.


Very true.  I live fairly close to a farming village that seems quite progressive.  There are two pretty decent village shops, and various other business enterprises that do  quite well.   Many of the young do indeed attend school and the place has produced some very successful adults over the years.  

There is a certain portion of the population that would certainly fit in well with the Gents description, but there are many more who would not.

What makes it all puzzling is that there are several other villages in the area where the populations are basically wards of the state.  I really don't know what makes the difference.   Maybe leadership....or just a bit of fortuitous good breeding.....??

----------


## Seekingasylum

Indeed, Koman, my experience too. One village can be host to more than its fair share of Lao Khao addicts, card schools and recalcitrant youths yet another is full of industry and temperance. 

Either way, the land as a means of securing the future is on borrowed time. I recall a recent census in which the average age of an agricultural worker/ farmer is around the 50 mark and rising. There is a precedent for this shift in the West when the French finally abandoned its cultural attachment to small holdings and accepted the industrial revolution. Villages there are in the main quaint museums with scarcely a young person to be seen.

Subsistence farming will disappear.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> Does anyone know if Pattaya or the islands are actually enforcing this curfew?
> 
> 
> Yes, here in Pattaya the BIB have been quite serious about enforcing the curfew in fact ordering some bars closed much earlier than the 10.00pm deadline.


What the bar owners, and the girls, think?

----------


## Dillinger

> What the bar owners, and the girls, think?


i should imagine the girls will be the happier. No more sitting in the bar til the early hours and an abundance  of sex pests queueing up to long time them early in the night

----------


## FloridaBorn

^ Little money to buy their Hello Kitty IPhones with either.

----------


## Merrimack

Clip of British Ambassador posted yesterday.

----------


## cyrille

Unfortunate face.

Wonder why the UK seems to have a different ambassador every six months.

The US seems to switch them far less regularly.

----------


## Merrimack

General coverage posted yesterday

----------


## nevets

What do you think about this my wife said, and it's common knowledge ,
That Yinglack is Thaksins daughter not his sister. 
She is from his first wife when he was a young man , I said how do you know this , she said everyone knows but it's not talked about.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Mark "Superman" Kent has been en poste for the past two years. 

He replaced the temporary incumbent, Asif Ahmad, who in turn was parachuted in to fill the void left when the then ambassador Quinton Quayle short toured himself to take up a job with Chang brewery.

----------


## cyrille

> Quinton Quayle short toured himself to take up a job with Chang brewery.


Is that right?

Trust a West Brom fan to have his priorities right.  :Smile:

----------


## Seekingasylum

> What do you think about this my wife said, and it's common knowledge ,
> That Yinglack is Thaksins daughter not his sister. 
> She is from his first wife when he was a young man , I said how do you know this , she said everyone knows but it's not talked about.


If true, he would have sired her when he was 17. Doubt that that would fit with his biography.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> Quinton Quayle short toured himself to take up a job with Chang brewery.
> 
> 
> Is that right?
> 
> Trust a West Brom fan to have his priorities right.


Quayle was a foppish, self indulgent man with no conception of public service beyond how it might have served his own ambitions.

Rather nice photograph of him with the transvestite McMafia chappie taken in Pattaya. Just goes to show how utterly clueless the FO here can be.

----------


## Merrimack

*Despite Army Officer's Fiery Rants, Anti-Coup Protest Largely Peaceful* 
May 26, 2014 Khaosod English News
http://en.khaosod.co.th/detail.php?newsid=1401112648&typecate=06§ion=

                                                                BANGKOK — Anti-coup  protesters staged another largely peaceful demonstration at Victory  Monument in Bangkok today, despite one military officer's attempt to  rile the crowd with a provocative diatribe.

Speaking from an  army humvee fitted with a loudspeaker, a military officer accused the  protesters of being paid by their organisers, and urged the foreign  media covering the demonstration to go home because they don't  understand Thailand.
  "There have been many coups in Thailand. This isn't the first time,"  the unnamed soldier told the foreign press. "The foreign correspondents  are scroundels. They are here to sell Thailand."

  The comments drew heated responses from the protesters, many of whom  yelled insults at the soldiers and riot police who were stationed by the  humvee on Phayathai road. Others threw bottles of water in anger.

  "The protesters don't love the country," the military officer said  over the loudspeaker in response. "Those who throw water bottles are  scums."

  He continued, "The military is here to maintain order and ensure  safety for the people, whereas the protesters are here to cause trouble.  They cause traffic jams that affect the public ... [affected citizens]  should come look at these damn protesters ... who don't want our country  to be peaceful."

  The military officer made several other bold assertions, including  the accusation that armed elements had infiltrated the protest and were  plotting to overthrow Thailand's important institutions. He also claimed  that the military has photographed every protester and will visit them  in their homes.
  The unusually provocative comments led many protesters to suspect  that the military was trying to goad demonstrators into attacking the  security forces to provide the pretext for a military crackdown. 

  The presence of water cannons and several companies of troops —  some  armed with automatic rifles —  on the nearby Phayathai Road appeared to  confirm protesters' suspicions that the army was prepared for a  crackdown.

  The arrival of of pro-coup protesters on the scene added to the  rally's already-tense atmosphere.  The group was led by Cpt. Songklot  Chuenchoopol, a military officer known for his activism against the  former government.

  The pro-coup group shouted verbal abuses at the anti-coup protesters  and instigated several heated arguments. However, no violence broke out,  and Cpt. Songklot disappeared from the protest shortly after the  military loudspeaker started berating the anti-coup crowd.

  The protesters eventually started to disperse after sundown. Road  traffic and Skytrain service — which was suspended on the stations close  to Victory Monument during the rally —  was restored. No arrests or  injuries were reported.
  Today's protest marks yet another outburst of defiance against the  military junta led by Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha, which has banned public  gatherings of more than five people. Earlier this afternoon, Gen Prayuth  warned that those who defy the ban will be met with "harsh" law  enforcement and may face prosecution in military courts. 

  Despite the military officer's accusations, our correspondents at the  scene found no evidence of protesters being paid. In fact,  the anti-coup demonstrations that have cropped up around the city since  the military staged a coup d’etat last Thursday appear to lack a clear  leader or organising force. The Facebook page "People Have Had Enough,"  which was behind earlier protests at the Bangkok Art and Cultural Centre  (BACC), said today that it has asked supporters to suspend activities  for "1-2 days" to monitor the situation.

  However, a fugitive activist, Sombat Boonngarm-anong, has already  called for another major anti-coup rally at Ratchaprasong Intersection  in Bangkok on 1 June.

----------


## Merrimack

This clip is from the above protest. The first one doesn't have anyone speaking English but it does have an comment in English on it. It's from Prachatai's youtube.





Second is from different source. Same location.

----------


## Merrimack

This must be the McDs protest. Lots of folks that day.

----------


## KEVIN2008

*Thailand’s tourism industry a victim of military coup       CLIFFORD COONAN . IRISH TIMES      Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Country is one of the world’s most visited tourist destinations, with arrivals last year at 26.7 million, up 20 per cent from the previous year, worth €54 billion annually*


*
Tourism chiefs in Thailand wept into their Singha beers last week as army chief General Prayuth Chan-Ocha took control of the country and suspended the constitution, two days after declaring martial law.

For years, Thailand has been known as the “teflon economy” for its ability to shrug off political instability, but this time around, the economic backdrop to the military coup is considerably more downbeat than during previous coups.

During the day, before the 10pm curfew comes into force, Thais go about their normal business in Bangkok. Young women take “selfies” at the military roadblocks on the city’s major intersections and an eerie normality prevails.
But the numbers tell a more depressing tale.
South-east Asia’s second-largest economy unexpectedly shrank in the first quarter from a year earlier, according to data issued last week, after anti-government protests that began in late October emptied hotels, scared off foreign investment and paralysed state spending.
Consumption fell 2.1 per cent, investment dropped 9.8 per cent, manufacturing declined 2.7 per cent and construction plummeted 12.4 per cent.
And look at how Thailand’s neighbours are performing. Worst performing currency
Malaysia and Singapore experienced economic growth of at least 5 per cent annually during the same period. The country’s National Economic and Social Development Board forecast economic growth of between 1.5 per cent and 2.5 per cent this year, down from a previous forecast of between
3 and 4 per cent. Nomura is even more bearish, forecasting 1.1 per cent growth this year.
The Thai currency fell nearly half a percentage point after the coup was announced, and it has slipped by 4.5 per cent since the crisis began at the end of October last year, making the baht the worst performing currency in Asia.
Inflation reached a 13-month high of 2.45 per cent in April.
Thailand is one of the world’s most visited tourist destinations, with arrivals last year at 26.7 million, up 20 per cent from the previous year, worth €54 billion annually and accounting for about 20 per cent of GDP and responsible for 2.5 million jobs last year.
The first four months of the year have seen a 5 per cent drop in visitor numbers – 400,000 people fewer than last year. The country is gearing up for mass cancellations, and it could lead to a drop in up to 12 per cent in bookings this month, according to the Wall Street Journal.
That said, the flight from Changsha in Hunan province, China, was full with tourists taking advantage of plummeting prices to have a quick break.
Many countries have issued travel alerts. Irish tourists have been urged to exercise “extreme caution”. Hong Kong is halting tours to Thailand.
Many people do not feel the crisis in Thailand will affect the tourism industry. After all, we have been here before. Nearly every year.
What are interest rate swaps saying about the situation? According to analysis by Bloomberg, Thailand’s interest-rate swaps are signalling a cut in central bank borrowing costs to avert a recession after the coup.

The one-year onshore contract has fallen 19 basis points this month to 1.74 per cent as a court ousted Yingluck Shinawatra as prime minister on May 7th, martial law was declared last Tuesday and the military took control on Thursday. ‘Prognosis good’
It is now 26 basis points below the 2 per cent benchmark interest rate after dropping to as low as 1.69 per cent on May 21st. Sharp declines in the swap preceded the last three rate cuts in March, November and May 2013.

This is the 12th coup since 1932, so there are few surprises for investors, even if things do look more intractable than in previous coups, and there are fears no lasting solution will come of it.
“We view the current military coup as likely overall positive as it creates a more stable environment,” Mark Mobius of Templeton Emerging Markets Group, told Bloomberg. “The prognosis for Thailand is good.”*



Thailand

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Yinglack is Thaksins daughter not his sister


Yeah. True, sure. And, all but five posters here are Thaksins sons and those five are Sutheps sons, 3 genetically engineered....

555 :Smile: 

But really, 




> Doubt that that would fit with his biography

----------


## Seekingasylum

Absolute crap reporting. Recycled, inaccurate and in no context.

The idiotic report that tourism accounted for 20% of GDP alone is sufficient to condemn this trash to the gutter.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> We view the current military coup as likely overall positive as it creates a more stable environment, Mark Mobius of Templeton Emerging Markets Group, told Bloomberg. The prognosis for Thailand is good.[/B]


The sort of totalitarian codswallop one expects from this ghastly, bald homosexual dwarf.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> The idiotic report that tourism accounted for 20% of GDP alone is sufficient to condemn this trash to the gutter


That is silly, 20% mistakes can not be accepted in global media...




> Tourism chiefs in Thailand wept into their Singha beers last week as army chief General Prayuth


Or Irish media. Serious article...

Other bits while true are just copy paste

Sorry Kev

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Mark Mobius of Templeton Emerging Markets Group, told Bloomberg. “The prognosis for Thailand is good


Doubt he has even been to Asia, he mistook it for Asda.. and was speaking about Iceland horse lasagne

----------


## taxexile

> "The foreign press. .........They are here to sell Thailand."


An occupation restricted to thais only

----------


## buriramboy

Some interesting appointments to the ruling council Generals Prawit and Anupong.

----------


## Gerbil



----------


## Rural Surin

ผู้หญิงไทยด้วยปืน 
เป็นอันตราย

----------


## Dandyhole

^^ Poor buggers

----------


## tomta

> Of course it was planned.  Is it worrisome that it wasn't a spur of the moment thing?  In the circumstances?  Really?


Yes, it is. It was a fallback strategy if Suthep failed. It is built upon lies and to succeed requires massive suppression of truth. The supporters of Suthep and the army are saying get rid of corruption. Apparently, "inviting" politicians to a conference  and then arresting them all is somehow not corrupt.  Mi

----------


## Dandyhole

Brother of nurse killed in 2010 killings is released after 5 days detention by junta

----------


## FloridaBorn

> This must be the McDs protest. Lots of folks that day.


A lot of brave people there, I'm always distressed though when I see young children at these events.. Watching that video I can feel the stress from both sides, it's family against family, loved one against loved one but the soldiers have no choice in the matter, this is not what a countries military is to be used for.. 

Personally were I soldier in a situation like that I think I'd have to opt for taking out one of my superiors rather then innocent, unarmed countrymen and women and children seeking their freedom and make my statement that way. That's a far better legacy to leave then this one, another thought on this is when these soldiers return home to their respective provinces and villages how will they be received I wonder?

----------


## Drainpipe

The curfew has been shortened

PR  News just announced: @armypr_news: ประกาศ คสช.42/2557  ปรับเวลาการห้ามออกนอกเคหะสถานทั่วราชอาณาจักร เป็น 00.01 ถึง 04.00น.  มีผลตั้งแต่คืนนี้(28 พค57) เพื่อบรรเทาผลกระทบ ปชช., - (English:  @tulsathit: New curfew - midnight to 4 am - starts tomorrow.) RT  @armypr_news

about time, the 10pm was hardly necessary

----------


## Yasojack

i'm in suki 4 no sign of any curfew here, if you've paid your dues your open as usual.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

A logical move for red shirts now would be to move directly to terrorist activities - and bring those asymmetric methods to the city . 

They aren't allowed to congregate any more, so would expect to see them adopting Southern Thailand 'freedom fighter' methods in the next month or so in urban Bangkok, with the aim of disrupting the military without any direct, personally hazardous,  confrontation.

----------


## aging one

> i'm in suki 4 no sign of any curfew here, if you've paid your dues your open as usual.


It 9:06 on your post lets see what happens....

----------


## Moonraker

> A logical move for red shirts now would be to move directly to terrorist activities - and bring those asymmetric methods to the city . 
> 
> They aren't allowed to congregate any more, so would expect to see them adopting Southern Thailand 'freedom fighter' methods in the next month or so in urban Bangkok, with the aim of disrupting the military without any direct, personally hazardous,  confrontation.


'Move directly to'?

Wouldn't 'continue with' be more appropriate?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by BaitongBoy
> 
> That's funny, actually...Probably just have a couple of soldiers on the big island...
> 
> 
> About a dozen actually, what's your point?


Howz biz? Them damn Thaksinites, eh?

----------


## Yasojack

Its fine already know which bars will be open, just waiting for a friend and on a bender.




> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> i'm in suki 4 no sign of any curfew here, if you've paid your dues your open as usual.
> 
> 
> It 9:06 on your post lets see what happens....

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> if you've paid your dues your open as usual.


Thais call it Issara  :Smile:

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> 
> A logical move for red shirts now would be to move directly to terrorist activities - and bring those asymmetric methods to the city . 
> 
> They aren't allowed to congregate any more, so would expect to see them adopting Southern Thailand 'freedom fighter' methods in the next month or so in urban Bangkok, with the aim of disrupting the military without any direct, personally hazardous,  confrontation.
> 
> 
> 'Move directly to'?
> ...


Legitimate anti-dictatorship

----------


## Troy

> A logical move for red shirts now would be to move directly to terrorist activities - and bring those asymmetric methods to the city .


Not a logical move and not a clever one either.

The Military don't need any help at all in creating their downfall. They are quite capable of doing it all by themselves.

----------


## pickel

> Howz biz? Them damn Thaksinites, eh?


It's the same as it ever is this time of year. Quite a few Thai holidaymakers about though too.

----------


## pickel

> Can somebody give a basic translation for this. It comes from TratTV's facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				รวบเครือข่ายเสื้อแดงตราดเชื่อมโยงคดีขว้างระเบิดและ  ยิงกลุ่มกปปส.ตราดจับได้ 2 คนทหารพรานพลีชีพ 1 ศพ รองผบ.กปช.จต.บอกให้รายละเอียดมากไม่ได้กลัวถูกตัดตอ  น,พบเสื้อแดงและผ้าคาดหัวพร้อมรถยนต์"
> 
>       เวลา ประมาณ 10.00 น.วันที่ 26 พฤษภาคม 2557 ร้อยเวรสอบสวน สภ.เขาสมิง ได้รับแจ้งว่ามีเหตุยิงปะทะระหว่างคนร้ายและทหารพราน  นาวิกโยธินและมีทหาร เสียชีวิต 1 คน ที่บ้านเลขที่ 25 หมู่ 3 ต.ประณีต อ.เขาสมิง จ.ตราด ที่เป็นของนายณรงค์ กระจ่างแสง อายุประมาณ 40 ปี ที่เป็นเกษตรกรปลูกผลไม้
> ...


Since nobody stepped up to the plate on this one, I have since heard that what happened was that the Thai Army raided a house in Trat to catch the suspects of the Khao Saming, Trat killings at the yellow shirt rally a while back. The one where two small girls were killed.

Apparently, one soldier died in the raid, one suspect got away, and two were arrested.

I can only imagine their testes are now 12 volts, and rightfully so.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> A logical move for red shirts now would be to move directly to terrorist activities - and bring those asymmetric methods to the city .
> 
> 
> Not a logical move and not a clever one either.
> 
> The Military don't need any help at all in creating their downfall. They are quite capable of doing it all by themselves.


It's easier to throw a Molotov cocktail into Nana Plaza and disappear into the night, than it is to stand in front of a platoon of armed soldiers and unveil a seditious placard (and get away with it)

----------


## pickel

> Originally Posted by Troy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> ...


That is true, but like most idealistic warriors, they need to be told what to do, and their leaders are locked up at the moment. Love him or hate him, Prayuth played his cards well. He only delayed the inevitable though. Hopefully his payments on the rice scheme and, so far, treating the reds the same as the yellows will keep things calm.

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by Troy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> ...


That's some pretty high-octane fear mongering. I can't respect any pro-democracy activist who wouldn't elect to kill people, even farangs.

----------


## Yasojack

Hotel i'm staying were telling me the curfew is really hurting them, the bars on soi 4 last night were just packed with the girls, my plane was full yesterday which surprised me, must of all been going down to the resorts.




> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> Howz biz? Them damn Thaksinites, eh?
> 
> 
> It's the same as it ever is this time of year. Quite a few Thai holidaymakers about though too.

----------


## Bettyboo

> treating the reds the same as the yellows


This is simple not true.

----------


## pickel

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> treating the reds the same as the yellows
> 
> 
> This is simple not true.





> Suthep Thaugsuban and four of his senior core leaders of the  defunct People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) were released from  military detention Monday morning and was escorted to the Attorney  General to be charged with insurrection.


Suthep freed, charged with rebellion | Bangkok Post: news

----------


## Sumbitch

I want my CNN.

----------


## Fluke

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pickel
> ...


  Yes, they are being charged for the crimes that they committed .
What crimes have the Reds committed and thus legitimatize their incarceration?

----------


## pickel

> What crimes have the Reds committed and thus legitimatize their incarceration?


What have the reds been charged with during this coup? As far as their incarceration, both sides have been incarcerated. In case you didn't notice, it's a coup.

----------


## Fluke

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> What crimes have the Reds committed and thus legitimatize their incarceration?
> 
> 
> What have the reds been charged with during this coup? As far as their incarceration, both sides have been incarcerated. In case you didn't notice, it's a coup.


  What crimes have the Reds committed ?
Its isnt a crime to be democratically elected by the voters .

----------


## Bettyboo

Are the red shirt leaders still being held? Did they commit any violence over the last 6 months that the coup claims to be about?

Are any yellow shirt leaders still being held? How about the numerous folk who have committed crimes, have warrants out for their arrest, etc over the last 6 months that the coup claims to be about?

This junta mob have been very clear since 2006 who they support, and they have been very clear since the coup who they support. Have the arrested suthep's or abhisit's or Banharn's family members, are they looking into their bank accounts, corruption cases, etc???

It really is very very simple: all, ALL, the demands from suthep's group are now being carried out by the junta.

----------


## taxexile

As leaders of the group that opposes to the coup, it makes perfect sense to detain them and prevent them from organising protests.

The yellow leaders are hardly going to cause the army any trouble having achieved their goal, so what is the point of detaining them further. Free them on bail for the time being.

Aint life unfair !!!!

----------


## Bettyboo

So, you seem to agree, Tax, the PADites and junta are aligned, as one, against the reds.

----------


## Thormaturge

> The yellow leaders are hardly going to cause the army any trouble having achieved their goal,


If Suthep's goal was to appear before a Court Martial on charges of murder and rebellion then I suppose you could be right.

When we see what replaces the nominated Senate and the Constitutional Court, and what a new constitution looks like, then I might agree with you more.  

Right now I don't think anyone truly has what they wanted, except perhaps the farmers, and we know who they vote for...especially now they are receiving the money Yingluck promised.  Funny old world innit?

----------


## taxexile

Its not quite as clear cut as that, but I do agree with the coup, and with the complete demolition of thaksins empire

Given everything that has occurred so far, and considering  everything that may occur in the not too distant future the country will be better off under the yellows, or even under the military than it would be in the hands of the reds.

Without thaksin at the helm, the reds are a spent force, and yingluck, game as she was, just wasnt up to the task in hand. Even old man thaksin is well past his prime now, and should he ever return, it will be to a very different thailand.


Only time will tell of course who was right and who was wrong.

----------


## Humbert

> but I do agree with the coup, and with the complete demolition of thaksins empire


If you can't do it democratically through elections why not get the army, the courts and the others that cannot be named to usurp power.

----------


## pickel

> What crimes have the Reds committed ? Its isnt a crime to be democratically elected by the voters .


You do realize that the UDD is not a political party, don't you.

----------


## pickel

> It really is very very simple: all, ALL, the demands from suthep's group are now being carried out by the junta.


Did Suthep demand to be charged with insurrection?

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> What crimes have the Reds committed ? Its isnt a crime to be democratically elected by the voters .
> 
> 
> You do realize that the UDD is not a political party, don't you.


But they were correct about the defence of democracy part

----------


## Bettyboo

> Did Suthep demand to be charged with insurrection?


That, along with abhisit's cases, was done well before the junta stepped in. The telling part will be to see who is sentencesd to what, and where/if they serve a sentence (many reds still in jail; no PADites ever been out in jail). The previous PAD leader was found guilty of many crimes, but never served a day in jail...

----------


## pickel

> That, along with abhisit's cases, was done well before the junta stepped in.


It happened Monday morning.

----------


## Dandyhole

.Junta appoints 2 Bangkok post executives as advisors, making it official junta propaganda media

----------


## Dandyhole

253 summoned, 200 turned up, 124 released, 53no shows .

76 still detained mostly anti coup

----------


## Dandyhole

Reports Junta allied ISP's shut down Facebook because an avenue of junta criticism

----------


## pickel

> Reports Junta allied ISP's shut down Facebook because an avenue of junta criticism


It was down for an hour, but it's back now.

----------


## aging one

> Reports Junta allied ISP's shut down Facebook because an avenue of junta criticism


but not true.

----------


## Waid

Why is the Junta so sensitive about criticism? Thought soldiers were tough.

----------


## aging one

> Why is the Junta so sensitive about criticism? Thought soldiers were tough.


All Thais are. Look at the anti American and Anti US ambassador bullshit going on right now... I have lost a few Thai friends in the last few days over this. There is a bit of North Korean brainwashing that occurs here believe you me.

----------


## baldrick

This is the Blue mums power play.  Prayuth is her puppyy dog.  She wants to be sure the black sheep is off the interchange bench and the takky cannot return

The rest is crumbs and beneath the crumbs are the falangs

----------


## tomta

He's been charged with insurrection. He'll be convicted of obstructing traffic in 20 years or so. Just like his PAD mates at the airport

----------


## tomta

> riginally Posted by Dandyhole Reports Junta allied ISP's shut down Facebook because an avenue of junta criticism but not true.


True. "Information and Communication Technology (ICT) permanent secretary  Surachai Srisarakam said he had received an order from the National  Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) to temporarily deny access to  Facebook,... 

Please credit and share this article with others  using this  link:Facebook temporarily down | Bangkok Post: news.  View our policies at Bangkok Post: Terms and conditions of use and Bangkok Post: Republishing policy. ©  Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved.

----------


## thailazer

Wonder if the FB outage was just a test in addition to this....

Thailand’s cybercoup

----------


## nevets

All Thai  people do not like and can not take criticisam it's in their DNA. 
I dont know where it stems from or why most other nations can stand it and even debate the subject in hand. 
But you say anything against a Thai or Thailand then murder is at hand.

----------


## Pragmatic

> But you say anything against a Thai or Thailand then murder is at hand.


Because they're brainwashed into believing the world revolves around Thailand.

----------


## thailazer

> Originally Posted by aging one
> 
> riginally Posted by Dandyhole Reports Junta allied ISP's shut down Facebook because an avenue of junta criticism but not true.
> 
> 
> True. "Information and Communication Technology (ICT) permanent secretary  Surachai Srisarakam said he had received an order from the National  Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) to temporarily deny access to  Facebook,... 
> 
> Please credit and share this article with others  using this  link:Facebook temporarily down | Bangkok Post: news.  View our policies at Bangkok Post: Terms and conditions of use and Bangkok Post: Republishing policy. ©  Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved.


That is quite an article.   That quote is certainly there, as is a denial in the next parapraph.   So...... reader's choice?

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Waid
> 
> Why is the Junta so sensitive about criticism? Thought soldiers were tough.
> 
> 
> All Thais are. Look at the anti American and Anti US ambassador bullshit going on right now... I have lost a few Thai friends in the last few days over this. There is a bit of North Korean brainwashing that occurs here believe you me.


Conditioning does come easy here, as it might towards any culture worldwide.

----------


## robuzo

> He's been charged with insurrection. He'll be convicted of obstructing traffic in 20 years or so. Just like his PAD mates at the airport


Airport? What airport? All is forgiven and forgotten. IOKIYY (It's OK if you're yellow).

----------


## robuzo

> This is the Blue mums power play.  Prayuth is her puppyy dog.  She wants to be sure the black sheep is off the interchange bench and the takky cannot return


Prayuth better watch out he doesn't get his balls cut off.

----------


## KimDidMeGood

> Originally Posted by tomta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by aging one
> ...


Most probably, someone ordered blocking, then someone higher up said it was stoopid and ordered to unblock.

----------


## Rural Surin

> All Thai people do not like and can not take criticisam it's in their DNA. 
> I dont know where it stems from or why most other nations can stand it and even debate the subject in hand. 
> But you say anything against a Thai or Thailand then murder is at hand.


Thais don't really see themselves as a national entity, more so a cultural one.

Outside of that, a general character trait [individually/collectively] that might irk many is their seemingly juvenile ability to never be in the wrong, falsehoods that are twisted, or a negative cast in their direction - usually surfaced over en lieu of reality. It is what it is......broader cultural things that one understands/recognizes or doesn't.

----------


## tomta

[QUOTE="thailazer"]That is quite an article. That quote is certainly there, as is a denial in the next parapraph. So...... reader's choice?[/QUOTE

One of them is lying. i can't see any reason for the public servant to lie so I think the military spokesman did.

Why not? The whole official coup began with a corrupt and massive lie. It's only martial law, not a coup. We just want people to talk. And after two hours, aa coup is declared and  they are locked up.

----------


## leemo

DM has been blocked the past 3 days, for daring to publish a series of outrageous pixelated pics. It seems our glorious leaders believe the DM acted irresponsibly, not the subject of the pics.

Touch sensitive, methinks, because the more noise they make to protect Thailand and its great institutions the more attention they're actually drawing to the scandals they should rightly wish to conceal.

Bit dumb if you ask me, so don't.

----------


## pickel

> Airport? What airport? All is forgiven and forgotten. IOKIYY (It's OK if you're yellow).


This guy isn't in jail.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Prayuth played his cards well. He only delayed the inevitable though. *Hopefully his payments on the rice scheme and, so far, treating the reds the same as the yellows* will keep things calm.


Funny how he managed to find the money to pay farmers only three or four days after a coup, when a legitimate government was STOPPED from making payments to farmers at every turn. What fucking bullshit - the farmers are happy to get paid of course, but they're not stupid..

----------


## cyrille

Has to be said that is a good point, TS.

The timing of this is beyond serendipitous.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> She wants to be sure the black sheep is off the interchange bench


Wasn't in the starting lineup tonight as far as I saw. Farm team player was though

----------


## Waid

Some really interesting comments above. Thanks for the insights. 

Thailand seems like it's going to the Soi dogs, just now.

----------


## FlyFree

> the farmers are happy to get paid of course, but they're not stupid..


Let's not lose it totally, Che old chap. Maybe what you meant to say is 'they're not *that* stupid'?

That I can agree with.

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
>  Prayuth played his cards well. He only delayed the inevitable though. *Hopefully his payments on the rice scheme and, so far, treating the reds the same as the yellows* will keep things calm.
> 
> 
> Funny how he managed to find the money to pay farmers only three or four days after a coup, when a legitimate government was STOPPED from making payments to farmers at every turn. What fucking bullshit - the farmers are happy to get paid of course, but they're not stupid..


Amazing Thai army! When they aren't stacking Muslim boys into trucks like cord wood, shelling Cambodia, murdering Chinese sailors on the Mekong, or gunning down nurses from the BTS tracks they are enacting financial miracles!

Our saviors.

----------


## aging one

No not the reds. the farmers. It will pay off in spades. These are simple and kind folk, the backbone of the country. They will remember who paid them what they were owed, and who did not.  Smart move. The only move, the right move.  Nobody else gave a shit as there was only money to be spent not made. Where the money is coming from I dont have a clue. But its well spent.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by The Ghost Of The Moog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Troy
> ...


Wouldn't be a pro-democracy activist, would be a group of young hotheads who don't feel they can express themselves in any other way - or even older guys, perhaps with a bit of weapons experience having once been in anti communist ops. 

And they're just pissed off at a lifetime of being squashed down. 
..And so they reach their 'Falling Down' moment. They decide not to put up with it any more. 'Nihilism', 'Resistance', all sorts of ways they could self-justify it. 

There is no shortage of easy targets whose destruction would illustrate that the army's authoritarian presence does not bring either peace or order.

----------


## Yasojack

flew into Ubon  there was about 20 army there, and police, drove home and passed three check points along the way and  i was told there all over the place.

Didn't see this many in BKK.

----------


## TLansford

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
>  Prayuth played his cards well. He only delayed the inevitable though. *Hopefully his payments on the rice scheme and, so far, treating the reds the same as the yellows* will keep things calm.
> 
> 
> Funny how he managed to find the money to pay farmers only three or four days after a coup, when a legitimate government was STOPPED from making payments to farmers at every turn. What fucking bullshit - the farmers are happy to get paid of course, but they're not stupid..


when the govt wanted to pay farmers, loans to the govt were blocked. When you are all-powerful, this happens...

"The Bangkok establishment called the subsidies a wasteful and corrupt scheme. *But the new military rulers ordered that the payments be made, and that the countrys banks lend the government the necessary cash.*"

since Suthep and the military are on the same side of the fence, this series of events is not a surprise...

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Amazing Thai army! When they aren't stacking Muslim boys into trucks like cord wood, shelling Cambodia, murdering Chinese sailors on the Mekong, or gunning down nurses from the BTS tracks they are enacting financial miracles!  Our saviors.


At least they aren't murdering millions around the planet for no other reason than power and money like your mob.

----------


## Yasojack

what did you expect with over a million not paid, things would out got out of hand and support for PT would of intensified, the rural folk knew what was happening and most were patient with the now defunct govt.




> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pickel
> ...

----------


## taxexile

So far so good for the general.

It is how a coup should be. Tough love. Strict, in complete control, no brutality.

Stifle all opposition and control the media.

Its just what the undisciplined anarchic rabble that is the thai people need.

A no nonsense general with a big stick to instill a bit of order, obedience and respect.

Thailand will be a better place for it. Thaksin let them all off the leash, a big mistake.

Thais need to to kept on a short lead.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> No not the reds. the farmers. It will pay off in spades. These are simple and kind folk, the backbone of the country. They will remember who paid them what they were owed, and who did not.  Smart move. The only move, the right move.  Nobody else gave a shit as there was only money to be spent not made. Where the money is coming from I dont have a clue. But its well spent.


Sentimental rubbish.

Thai agriculture is utterly inefficient, wasteful, unsustainable and uneconomic. This final act in a disgraceful confidence trick perpetrated by a ruthless demagogue for his own evil ends  marks the beginning of the end of the industry. The expenditure on this scam has been colossal and you blithely state you haven't a clue where the money will come from to pay for this farrago? I'll tell you: it'll come from the taxpayer, it'll come from the pared down budgets for education, health and welfare, it'll come from the farang who will inevitably be exploited for their reliance on a visa regime which will demand more money in fees, it'll come from curtailed projects maintaining Thailand's dreadful infrastructure. And if that won't be enough, then the increased inflation that will inevitably feed itself into the system will increase taxation and the falling baht will inevitably fuel the increases as energy prices rise.

There is no free ride for anyone in this but one thing is for sure, subsidising a section of the community which contributes a piddling 8 %'to GDP to this extent is economic stupidity on a scale as large as the scam.

Paying off the farmers because they sold their votes for a pig in a poke is a crime.

But who cares, just as long as some witless farang thinks they're the salt of the earth.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> So far so good for the general.
> 
> It is how a coup should be. Tough love. Strict, in complete control, no brutality.
> 
> Stifle all opposition and control the media.
> 
> Its just what the undisciplined anarchic rabble that is the thai people need.
> 
> A no nonsense general with a big stick to instill a bit of order, obedience and respect.
> ...


Reminds me of Friedrich Nietzsche in Thus Spake Zarathustra: when you go to woman, take the whip along.

Frankly, I never truly minded the odd thrashing. I expect you come from the same school, eh, Tax?

----------


## Yasojack

Weren't you the other day going off about how the markets haven't attacked the thai markets, but now your sounding like doomsday is just around the corner :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 





> Originally Posted by aging one
> 
> 
> No not the reds. the farmers. It will pay off in spades. These are simple and kind folk, the backbone of the country. They will remember who paid them what they were owed, and who did not.  Smart move. The only move, the right move.  Nobody else gave a shit as there was only money to be spent not made. Where the money is coming from I dont have a clue. But its well spent.
> 
> 
> Sentimental rubbish.
> 
> Thai agriculture is utterly inefficient, wasteful, unsustainable and uneconomic. This final act in a disgraceful confidence trick perpetrated by a ruthless demagogue for his own evil ends  marks the beginning of the end of the industry. The expenditure on this scam has been colossal and you blithely state you haven't a clue where the money will come from to pay for this farrago? I'll tell you: it'll come from the taxpayer, it'll come from the pared down budgets for education, health and welfare, it'll come from the farang who will inevitably be exploited for their reliance on a visa regime which will demand more money in fees, it'll come from curtailed projects maintaining Thailand's dreadful infrastructure. And if that won't be enough, then the increased inflation that will inevitably feed itself into the system will increase taxation and the falling baht will inevitably fuel the increases as energy prices rise.
> ...

----------


## Waid

> So far so good for the general.
> 
> It is how a coup should be. Tough love. Strict, in complete control, no brutality.
> 
> Stifle all opposition and control the media.
> 
> Its just what the undisciplined anarchic rabble that is the thai people need.
> 
> A no nonsense general with a big stick to instill a bit of order, obedience and respect.
> ...


You surely jest? No sane person could be talking like this - seriously.

----------


## taxexile

> Frankly, I never truly minded the odd thrashing. I expect you come from the same school, eh, Tax?


There is nothing inherently wrong with corporal punishment for schoolkids, it did keep the rowdier elements in check so that teaching was mostly uninterrupted, and after suffering the humiliation and pain of two or three thrashings early on,  the threat of further beatings was more than enough to secure a kind of reluctant but not subserviant obedience. I suspect it will be the same for the thais, as they seem to mostly behave like schoolkids.

Whacko!

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> So far so good for the general.
> 
> It is how a coup should be. Tough love. Strict, in complete control, no brutality.
> 
> Stifle all opposition and control the media.
> 
> ...


The sanity is suspiciously considered here amongst many.

----------


## pickel

> What fucking bullshit - the farmers are happy to get paid of course, but they're not stupid..


They were stupid enough to vote for the party who started the disaster known as the rice pledge, and now the rest of the country will have to pay for their mistake.

You whine when they don't get paid, you whine when they do get paid.

----------


## taxexile

> You surely jest? No sane person could be talking like this - seriously.


Its a coup you big girls blouse, how else can a coup be effective if not by the strict implementstion of restrictive measures.

----------


## taxexile

And when they prove themselves to be better disciplined, less corrupt and more responsible, then they can have another go at democracy.

Maybe then they wont fuck it up.

----------


## Seekingasylum

I rather think there's as much chance of that as you flopping the old chap out at Headingly and asking Boycott to give you a quickhandshandy.

----------


## Waid

> And when they prove themselves to be better disciplined, less corrupt and more responsible, then they can have another go at democracy.
> 
> Maybe then they wont fuck it up.


Was this fellow a relative of yours, perhaps?

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> And when they prove themselves to be better disciplined, less corrupt and more responsible, then they can have another go at democracy.
> 
> Maybe then they wont fuck it up.
> 
> 
> Was this fellow a relative of yours, perhaps?


Don't know who that is - but for sure it was you lot who funded the misery and gained from it too.

Tax is Poo Yai.

You are simply Poo.

 :Smile: 

Jog on you stupid cvnt  :Smile:

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> Amazing Thai army! When they aren't stacking Muslim boys into trucks like cord wood, shelling Cambodia, murdering Chinese sailors on the Mekong, or gunning down nurses from the BTS tracks they are enacting financial miracles!  Our saviors.
> 
> 
> At least they aren't murdering millions around the planet for no other reason than power and money like your mob.


I really irks you to be be so far down the food chain doesn't it?  :bananaman: 

The only reason you can say that is because they're being countered by a higher power, but of course you knew that already?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> What fucking bullshit - the farmers are happy to get paid of course, but they're not stupid..
> 
> 
> They were stupid enough to vote for the party who started the disaster known as the rice pledge, and now the rest of the country will have to pay for their mistake.


You mean like the country did when the dems knew they were going to be ousted from the top seat and allowed the dams to overfill knowing that the worst of the flooding would be up country? That kind of stupid?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  THAT's when all of this REALLY kicked off not with the attempted recover scheme by the previous admin..BTW I predicted well in advance back then that the following seasons from that flood would be banner years for crops due to the nitrates that were deposited in the fields..  :mid:

----------


## Thormaturge

> Where the money is coming from I dont have a clue


Between mid March and late May most businesses and individuals pay their income tax based on the previous year; we paid ours this week.  Tax revenues are buoyant this year due to a good economy in 2556 BE.  Many companies do not bother paying the monthly payroll taxes at the time they deduct the tax from employees, preferring  instead to pay in one lump on 31st March.

The Generals simply have money in the exchequer which was not there a few weeks ago.

The same money the previous government would have used, had it remained in office. 

The next trick ... funding the remainder of the budget without increasing VAT.

----------


## koman

The Bahtski seems to be holding up quite well and the stock market has only grunted a bit.   Lots of people were predicting a total disintegration a while back.

The bond auction a couple of days ago failed to reach it's target by a few billion.....but one time is not a trend.  Be interesting to see how the next round goes.... :Confused:

----------


## Humbert

> The Bahtski seems to be holding up quite well


The USD selling rate is now 32.99 which is the weakest the baht has been in quite a while.

----------


## koman

> Originally Posted by koman
> 
> The Bahtski seems to be holding up quite well
> 
> 
> The USD selling rate is now 32.99 which is the weakest the baht has been in quite a while.


Yes it has weakened;  but nowhere near the extent that many were predicting....at least not yet.   The Baht has been weakening for some time now, but mostly because of the actions of the BOT I think.      It's still nowhere near the levels we were used to in the good old days..... :Smile:

----------


## koman

Just looked....the mid market rate for the US$ is 32.69.....and the Baht has only moved in smallish increments against most other major currencies......nothing out of the ordinary shifts we see between currencies.

----------


## pseudolus

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
>  Prayuth played his cards well. He only delayed the inevitable though. *Hopefully his payments on the rice scheme and, so far, treating the reds the same as the yellows* will keep things calm.
> 
> 
> Funny how he managed to find the money to pay farmers only three or four days after a coup, when a legitimate government was STOPPED from making payments to farmers at every turn. What fucking bullshit - the farmers are happy to get paid of course, but they're not stupid..


You totally discount the concept that the junta actually wanted to pay the farmers where as yingluck did not.

----------


## Humbert

> At least they aren't murdering millions around the planet for no other reason than power and money like your mob.


OVERBLOWN RHETORIC ALERT!

----------


## Thormaturge

> You totally discount the concept that the junta actually wanted to pay the farmers where as yingluck did not.


Remember the PT government trying to borrow money from the GSB to pay the farmers?  Who was it that prevented them?

The fact is that there simply wasn't the money to pay farmers from rice sales, both because of a decline in value of stocks and failure, for whatever reason, to sell the stuff.  So the only option was to borrow, and repay the money from this year's tax revenue, which PT were prevented from doing.

2557 BE tax revenues will be lower so now the military government are going to be faced with some stark choices, having blown a large chunk of last year's bumper  tax revenue.  Do they increase VAT, reduce subsidies on Diesel, CNG and electricity, or borrow more?  With bond issues falling short we seem likely be faced with hikes in VAT and energy prices that are all hugely inflationary.  Remember an increase in VAT from  7% to 10% represents a 42.86% increase in revenue, and it is instant (unlike income tax which has a one year time lag).

----------


## taxexile

Maybe without thaksins and others thieving 30++% under the table tax on everything, there will be more money jingling into the governments coffers this year and less need for tax increases.

It will be interesting to see if levels of corruption and cream offs do actually change over the following few months.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> It will be interesting to see if levels of corruption and cream offs do actually change over the following few months.


How will you know?

Damaging, monumental scale corruption isn't the same as the police levying extra fines - and is less visible.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by Humbert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by koman
> ...


I'm hoping it doesn't weaken more as my missus gets paid in baht and sends over what she can at the moment so we can be in a better financial position when she joins us, which is also the ONLY reason she stayed behind and that plan and sacrifice is now being scuttled by ignorance, egotistical and infantile power plays of a third world country and it's "leaders". Based on what's currently happening once again there can no longer be a debate on whether or not Thailand IS 3rd world..

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see if levels of corruption and cream offs do actually change over the following few months.
> 
> 
> How will you know?
> 
> Damaging, monumental scale corruption isn't the same as the police levying extra fines - and is less visible.


Oh it'll change all right!! No oversight what-so-ever so some pockets are definitely going to get lined, "a rose by any other name". Only more thorns and more pricks.  ::chitown::  As bad as it was before the 2 protagonists were eager to find and expose corruption to bring the other down. Who's going to do that now? Even the press is, for all intents and purposes, sidelined and muted so there's not even anyone to report it to or a voice to be heard.

----------


## Thormaturge

> Damaging, monumental scale corruption isn't the same as the police levying extra fines - and is less visible.


Oh I dunno.  The monumental corruption in Thailand's courts was pretty visible in recent months.   

One of my staff has a male relative who recently passed an army officers' exam.  Now if he wants promotion it will cost him ThB 100,000.  I don't doubt it will be business as usual in the commercial sector too.

----------


## Humbert

Is Facebook blocked? I am unable to log in this morning.

----------


## pseudolus

> The fact is that there simply wasn't the money to pay farmers from rice sales, both because of a decline in value of stocks and failure, for whatever reason, to sell the stuff. So the only option was to borrow, and repay the money from this year's tax revenue, which PT were prevented from doing.


Ahh but they magically found the money for all the infrastructure projects being kicked off in red land over the last 18 months, making sure their regional captains got their graft money. 

Thaksin and the puppets rarely ever actually deliver anything that they promise in the run up to elections, other than debt for the people that vote for them. They always deliver that.

----------


## Thormaturge

^
2011 they were confronted with floods of biblical proportions. Hardly PT's fault.

By 2013 Thailand had an economy producing substantial tax revenues which the Democrats and their backers, with help from the courts, hoped to plunder.  Sadly for them the military have grabbed the money and will have a whale of time throwing it about for a short while.  Nobody is going to be in a hurry to be left holding the baby in the fourth quarter of 2557 BE as the money runs out and the economy remains flat.  September election, before all the price hikes become inevitable, anyone?

----------


## Yasojack

Taken from the Guardian.

Thailand militarisation is symptom of accelerating global system failure
Crippling fossil fuel dependency, climate volatility, rocketing debt levels are propelling protests, radicalising the state
Thailand coup
Thai police commando stand guard outside the Army Club before Thai former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra arrives to report to Thailand's ruling military in Bangkok, Thailand, Friday, May 23, 2014. (AP Photo/Sakchai Lalit) Photograph: Sakchai Lalit/AP
Military coups in Thailand are nothing new. But the latest seizure of power by army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha underscores the risks to democracy when governments consistently fail to deal adequately with the complex convergence of systemic crises.

Although Chan-ocha has said he is merely seeking to "restore order" in reaction to escalating protests that have seen the deaths of 28 and injury of 700, informed observers point out that the declaration of martial law appears to have been calculated to benefit the coup instigators.

Whatever the case, the opportunity to impose authoritarian rule has emerged in the context of escalating political instability. But few recognise that the driving force of this instability is not simply 'political infighting', but the inexorable intersection of global trends that affect us all.

Three years ago, a prescient editorial in Thailand's English language daily, The Nation, noted that global economic growth was indelibly tied to the abundant availability of cheap oil. Pointing out the links between domestic oil scarcity in countries like Egypt beset with surging social upheaval, the editorial diagnosed the problem as follows:

"The recent sharp rise in food prices has triggered riots in Egypt and other less-developed countries. Higher energy prices have also added on to the inflationary pressure. The poor are the most vulnerable sector to fluctuations in food and energy prices. Governments thus have to come up with subsidy measures for food and energy."

What does this imply for Thailand? The editorial continued:

"The Thai inflation rate is very sensitive to higher oil prices, which will drive up local transport and production costs. As a heavy importer of energy, the rising oil price could derail the Thai economy and drain our reserves if we're not careful."

Indeed, Thailand is a net energy importer. As Southeast Asia's second-largest consumer of energy, with total domestic consumption at 108.7 million tonnes of oil equivalent (TOE), the slow demise of cheap energy sources exacerbated by rising demand from India and China has posed a growing challenge.

Thailand's Ministry of Energy has not been entirely asleep at the wheel. In 2003, a government report acknowledged that the country's "high dependency on imported energy will make Thailand at risk of energy supply disruption and volatility of energy prices, apart from a substantial foreign currency loss for the imports of energy." The report urged the government to embark on a strategy to diversify energy supply sources and ramp up domestic renewable energy investment.

But the pace of transition has been too slow, with "little change to the status quo" - and so far the poor, especially rural farmers who have played an increasing role in recent protests, have been most affected.

We need to call a spade a spade: Thailand's deteriorating economy is driven significantly by its fossil fuel dependence. In 2013, the International Energy Agency (IEA) warned that Thailand's economy was especially vulnerable to external shocks, disruptions to its energy supplies and oil price escalation. High international oil prices would push up the Consumer Price Index (CPI).

It's happening now. Thailand's Ministry of Commerce stated that the CPI had risen by 2.11% in March due to "increases in food and energy prices" rising further to 2.45% in April. The prices underpinning inflation in particular affected "rice, pork, cooking gas and vegetable oil."

Welcome to the future. The IEA also projected that Thai energy consumption in Thailand will rise by 75% over the next two decades, corresponding to a dramatic increase in its oil import bill, which could climb to $70bn - three times the current level.

Also to blame for current inflation are "higher electricity rates and a weaker baht", along with "droughts in some areas" that could result in "shortages of agricultural products."

Erratic climate impacts on Thailand are already playing havoc with the economy. Between 1981 and 2007, annual mean temperature in Thailand rose by 1C. Over the last 50 years, the frequency and levels of precipitation have decreased, even while scientists expect that this will accompany an increase in intensity of extreme weather, storm surges and floods.

This is undermining Thailand's position as one of the world's largest rice exporters. Over 40% of Thai citizens depend on agriculture for their livelihood. Widespread floods in October 2010 affecting almost three million people led to a loss in rice production of about 0.7 million tonnes. Droughts in the same years sunk water levels to 15% of their total capacity, also debilitating rice production.

Devastation caused by flooding in 2011 led to a halt in planned government expenditures, slashing domestic consumption which accounts for about half of economic output. The flooding also destroyed 14% of rice paddies. This increased economic pressure on government to remunerate affected farmers and back an unsustainable 'rice mortgage scheme' guaranteeing higher-than-market prices to export rice. The result of that, coupled with competition with other major rice exporters, has been a decline in rice exports and a drop in government revenues.

As the rice programme has benefited mostly rich farmers while miring the government in increasing debt, impoverished farmers excluded from the dividends have increasingly seen little choice but to take to the streets.

Faced with these burgeoning economic challenges, struggling farmers, as well as low wage workers, have also ended up mired in debt. Since the 2008 financial crisis, there has been an explosion of private borrowing, such that Thailand's ratio of household debt to GDP has increased from 55 per cent to 80 per cent since 2009. As rampant debt, fuelled by rising living costs (underpinned in turn by energy inflation), has stoked political grievances and economic uncertainty, unemployment is pitched to rise to 600,000 - the highest in a decade.

Recent research has shown that high-debt countries suffer from lower economic growth. In particular large levels of household debt drag growth down.

Such accelerating debt is widening Thai inequality. The top 10 per cent of landowners in Thailand own 61 per cent of total title land. The income share of the most affluent 20% of the population is about 54% compared to only 5% among the poorest 20%.

Since the 2006 coup, economic gains made by the previous Thaksin administration's rejection of failed IMF reforms have been reversed.

Top this off with the interlinked challenges of Thailand's domestic energy scarcity and intensifying climate woes, and we have all the makings of a perfect storm of systemic crises. Any government operating within the framework of conventional 'neoliberal austerity' wisdom - let alone one beleaguered with corruption - would have difficulties managing this scenario.

Operating within the conventional framework which sees each problem as separate, and reacts belatedly to political disturbances on the shallow surface of current affairs, we can't see the forest for the trees. Thailand's crisis is about more than internal corruption, political repression and economic mismanagement - though all three of course feature in large degree. This is about the unravelling of a global paradigm of fossil fuel dependency and endless growth for its own sake.

Thailand's latest authoritarian turn is a warning to us all. Until we are ready to work together to address the structural and systemic context of such interconnected crises, we risk rendering the reactionary resort to state-militarisation an inevitable 'final solution' to keep the lid on a new age of unrest.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
>  Prayuth played his cards well. He only delayed the inevitable though. *Hopefully his payments on the rice scheme and, so far, treating the reds the same as the yellows* will keep things calm.
> 
> 
> Funny how he managed to find the money to pay farmers only three or four days after a coup, when a legitimate government was STOPPED from making payments to farmers at every turn. What fucking bullshit - the farmers are happy to get paid of course, but they're not stupid..



You fail to mention the fact the payments were due before the protesters took to the streets, why they made when due?

----------


## Yasojack

Interesting choice for the Job.

PM

PM’s Office permanent secretary and Council of State secretary-general axed
in Politics.

Prime Minister’s Office permanent secretary Tongthong Chandrangsu and Council of State secretary-general Chukiat Rattanachaicharn were axed at the order of the National Council for Peace and Order.
In accordance with the NCPO’s orders No 27/2557 and 28/2557, Mr Tongthong is still retained as an official at the PM’s Office with the same salary.  He was replaced by M.L. Panadda Disakul, the deputy permanent secretary.

Mr  Chukiat was transferred to the PM’s Office with the same salary he received as the Council of State secretary-general.  Appointed to fill in his place was Mr Disatat Hotrakit, the deputy secretary.

Meanwhile, NCPO ordered Mr Veerapat Priyawong, an independent academic to report to the junta on Thursday morning at the Army’s auditorium.

----------


## Yasojack

Get loans from the countries that owe them money then loan them the money back :Smile:

----------


## leemo

> Maybe without thaksins and others thieving 30++% under the table tax on everything, there will be more money jingling into the governments coffers this year and less need for tax increases.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if levels of corruption and cream offs do actually change over the following few months.


IF (note capitals) our glorious leaders manage to reduce (reduce, not eliminate) corruption, it will be no better for the economy due to the expected incompetence of huge egos believing they can run a country.

They tried it last time and ten times before that, on each occasion leaving a mess in their wake, and governments as corrupt as the one they replaced.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by koman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Humbert
> ...


I don't think anyone disputes that LoS is Third World, and irredeemably so; the Thai mindset simply cannot compete with that of advanced nations. 

The question we were asked on the thread I believe you may be referring to, is whether Thailand is a failed state. Imho definitely not, though it seems they're still trying.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Moog, I think, as a spectacle,  the principle of staying at the crease for two days for no apparent reason other than to force a draw is not one the Asian mind could embrace easily. Mai sanuk and all that and to be fair, that's why we have one day cricket and the limited over thrash.

Mind you, he knew how to treat his women. Too much lip and a swift belt across the chops was the m.o. I believe.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Mind you, he knew how to treat his women. Too much lip and a swift belt across the chops was the m.o. I believe.


That, I believe, did not happen, she made it up to extort money out of him - using injuries gained in other combat.  He is very popular with the ladies, if one googles 'Katy Perry' along with his name, you will see an assignation that took place only last week.

And besides, if both Reds and Royalists had accepted a draw with grafters at the crease, meticulously accumulating runs, with honours even and a degree of sportsmanship, there would not need to be recourse to tankist coups.  There is no need for binary social outcomes - a draw, a tie, or play curtailed by bad light and rain are all satisfactory compromise endings.

----------


## taxexile

> There is no need for binary social outcomes - a draw, a tie, or play curtailed by bad light and rain are all satisfactory compromise endings.


I dont think the dinosaurs playing todays thai politics would agree. A compromise  is just not cricket.

The coup represents the penalty shoot out.

----------


## Troy

> The coup represents the penalty shoot out.


More like the game abandoned because protesters, paid by the umpires, dug up the pitch at Headingley.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Actually, before Thaksin, consensus was the the order of the day. Then, of course, the lower end was not a consideration but he dragged them into the equation as a means of gaining the upper hand thus securing a bigger slice of the pie than others thought merited.

The rest, as they say, is history. What this particular coup hopes to achieve by pressing the reset button is to restore an equilibrium that to a certain extent existed before the Thaksin phenomenon but out of necessity the lower end will now have to be considered.

Thai democracy is all about harmony and the maintenance of its own, peculiar, social stratification. They don't particularly care if the umpires are a a bit arbitrary from time to time. The oiks getting pissed in the cheap seats and making a noise can always be ejected from the ground if needs be and no one complains too much about that.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Maybe without thaksins and others thieving 30++% under the table tax on everything, there will be more money jingling into the governments coffers this year and less need for tax increases.





> They tried it last time and ten times before that, on each occasion leaving a mess in their wake, and governments as corrupt as the one they replaced.


This is the point, the junta are not anti-corruption, quite the opposite. This foolish speak that TRT/PT governments are more corrupt is just plain wrong, all the facts, all the studies, all the organizations that follow and detail corruption have highlighted junta governments, post coup governments, as the most corrupt...

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## Bettyboo

> There is no need for binary social outcomes - a draw, a tie, or play curtailed by bad light and rain are all satisfactory compromise endings.


This is a good point, add to that the 'people's' right to have a voice/changing society, the upcoming event and the PADites panic to control it at all costs, and you have much of the story.

A lot of old men, distant from reality, who think they know best and refuse to back down due to the money and power their position affords them...

----------


## pickel

> You mean like the country did when the dems knew they were going to be ousted from the top seat and allowed the dams to overfill knowing that the worst of the flooding would be up country?


The reservoirs were full because there was a drought the year before. Then a tropical storm hit with heavy rains. The reason the worst of the floods were upcountry was because the dikes were closed on the outer ring of Bangkok. The Pheu Thai party were in charge then and it was their decision. Pretty weak straw man argument you have there.

----------


## Troy

> Sentimental rubbish.  Thai agriculture is utterly inefficient, wasteful, unsustainable and uneconomic. This final act in a disgraceful confidence trick perpetrated by a ruthless demagogue for his own evil ends marks the beginning of the end of the industry. The expenditure on this scam has been colossal and you blithely state you haven't a clue where the money will come from to pay for this farrago? I'll tell you: it'll come from the taxpayer, it'll come from the pared down budgets for education, health and welfare, it'll come from the farang who will inevitably be exploited for their reliance on a visa regime which will demand more money in fees, it'll come from curtailed projects maintaining Thailand's dreadful infrastructure. And if that won't be enough, then the increased inflation that will inevitably feed itself into the system will increase taxation and the falling baht will inevitably fuel the increases as energy prices rise.  There is no free ride for anyone in this but one thing is for sure, subsidising a section of the community which contributes a piddling 8 %'to GDP to this extent is economic stupidity on a scale as large as the scam.  Paying off the farmers because they sold their votes for a pig in a poke is a crime.  But who cares, just as long as some witless farang thinks they're the salt of the earth


No doubt you would like to keep it that way as well. Keep all the improvements based around BKK. where the wealth is generated and ignore everywhere else. The problem is this entices the population to move to BKK and all but abandon the agricultural industry, leaving it to go to waste.

A correctly managed 'agricultural revolution' that removed the dependence on subsistence farming and seasonal casual workforce together with infrastructure that improved transport/communications links to the cities in major provinces, giving them a similar function to the European market town model could increase the Country GDP year on year for the next several decades.

Thailand has huge potential for sustainable growth. However, it relies on people that can think of the Country as a whole rather than being Bangkok-centric.

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## taxexile

> A lot of old men, distant from reality, who think they know best and refuse to back down due to the money and power their position affords them...


And if you were an old man sitting on a tidy family fortune accumulated over three or four generations of astute business dealings, having taking advantage of your social position, every opportunity, every loophole and every person that crossed your path and then suddenly, out of the blue comes this northern oik, this flash harry,  this supposed robin hood, this new money threat to the status quo, wouldnt you act in exactly the same way as they are doing and try and preserve things. Of course you would.

There is little social consciousness here,  outside of ones family  its dog eat dog.

Preaching morality and fairness just falls on deaf ears.

----------


## MineFalls

[quote=taxexile;2787061]


> its dog eat dog.



More like a tiger eats a dog. If the dog wants to compete he's got to play a lot harder. There really are no rules as Taxexile says. The rural's side has so much more open to them since there really is no law or right and wrong. Winner takes all as always so they've got to come up with something new or they are dinner. The lion is soon to be blowing in the wind with all the rest of the dust in Asia. Maybe the rural folks don't have to resist other than to make statements to show who is doing the oppressing. It's just a short wait before nature inspires infighting among the lion's pride. All things must pass sometime. The Thais controlling the military are holding onto what inevitably just won't exist.

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## Bettyboo

> There is little social consciousness here


That is very true.




> Preaching morality and fairness just falls on deaf ears.


But that's exactly what the Junta and PAD are doing and have been doing for years; some folks buy into it...

On the other side, while Thaksin is just another one of them, 1) he was voted in, so he has a mandate; 2) some folks in the UDD who are looking for change outside of traditional patronage structures, do have the moral high ground. Some folks in the PAD may well also be against corruption, may be in support of fair governance and blind justice, but their ultra-royalist stance just offers more of the same old massive corruption. The junta/PAD offer no way out of the corruption, quite the opposite, they are all about reinforcing their position - hence why abhisit's and the dem's behaviour has been so damaging to Thailand's development; somebody, some group, need to actually practice what they preach (Thaksin has come closest to that for Thais, hence his support, but a new party needs to go well beyond that if Thailand is to develop). Now, the dehumanizing remarks of Thais this and Thais that which I expect from certain posters, just are out of sync with the reality of the younger Thai generation who are very different from the farmers of 30 years ago...

----------


## koman

Boo is a self professed idealist and very well intentioned, but most of us know that such idealistic notions are nice to think about and even talk about from time to time, but not many people over the age of 35 or so thinks that any such world will really come to pass. 

  Each new generation will hold on to idealism for a while because it's a natural process to go through immediately after puberty, and is probably linked to some kind of hormone imbalance....... :Smile:    It takes some a bit longer than others to regain balance.  Army generals and people like that would likely have found their balance quite early on in life.....idealism would tend to hamper promotion.... :Smile:

----------


## Seekingasylum

Troy, subsistence farming in it's feudal, patchwork quilt form that exists today will give way to industrial farming with all its economy of scale and efficiencies. The farmers as they are now will quite literally wither on the vine of economic necessity and their communities will migrate to the towns and cities.

It is inevitable and, eventually, as a political force their significance will be negligible.

Progress. Whether one is for it or against it is really quite, quite irrelevant. Either way, it will happen.

----------


## cyrille

> The farmers as they are now will quite literally wither on the vine of economic necessity.


Quite literally withering on the vine eh?

Wow.

Wouldn't wanna watch that

Which part of their anatomy is attached to the vine?  :Confused:

----------


## Yasojack

Jeez i have agreed with you twice now, very true even Thaksin said this a long time ago.

Sure the next govt will push this now.




> Troy, subsistence farming in it's feudal, patchwork quilt form that exists today will give way to industrial farming with all its economy of scale and efficiencies. The farmers as they are now will quite literally wither on the vine of economic necessity and their communities will migrate to the towns and cities.
> 
> It is inevitable and, eventually, as a political force their significance will be negligible.
> 
> Progress. Whether one is for it or against it is really quite, quite irrelevant. Either way, it will happen.

----------


## koman

> Troy, subsistence farming in it's feudal, patchwork quilt form that exists today will give way to industrial farming with all its economy of scale and efficiencies. The farmers as they are now will quite literally wither on the vine of economic necessity and their communities will migrate to the towns and cities.
> 
> It is inevitable and, eventually, as a political force their significance will be negligible.
> 
> Progress. Whether one is for it or against it is really quite, quite irrelevant. Either way, it will happen.



There are some areas where this process appears to be well under way.   Larger and larger tracts of land are being amassed by individual families.   More and more mechanized farming is being introduced.   The village just down the road from me has four big harvesters and several smaller ones. now.   There was none at all 4-5  years ago.     Every other farmer has a good sized tractor now and they are venturing into more diverse crops.   Most of the area is still subsistence farming but as you say, it's days are clearly numbered because of the expansion of larger scale operations and the need for much more efficient farming methods.

----------


## Mid

*Thai military rulers appoint anti-Thaksin advisers*
Pracha Hariraksapitak
                  Wed May 28, 2014 


_1 of 8.                                                  Demonstrators hold up  signs during a protest against military rule at Victory Monument in  Bangkok May 27, 2014. _ 
Credit: Reuters/Athit Perawongmetha

     Thailand's junta has appointed two retired generals with  palace connections as advisers, putting powerful establishment figures  hostile towards former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra firmly in the  ascendant in the country's long-running power struggle.

 Hoping to show things are  getting back to normal, the military also relaxed a night-time curfew  brought in after it seized power in a May 22 coup, and is expected to  speed up efforts to get the economy moving again after months of  debilitating political protests.

Data  on Wednesday showed trade shrank in April and factory output fell for a  13th straight month, underscoring the damage political unrest has  caused and the tough job the military government faces reviving an  economy on the brink of recession.

The  Information Technology Ministry said it had blocked Facebook at the  request of the military to stem protests. But the site was back up after  about 30 minutes and the military denied involvement, saying a  technical problem was to blame.

The military has issued warnings about the spread of what it considers provocative material on social media.

The  junta's team of advisers includes a former defense minister, General  Prawit Wongsuwan, and former army chief General Anupong Paochinda.

The  two men are towering figures in Thailand's military establishment and  have close ties to coup leader General Prayuth Chan-ocha. All three are  staunch monarchists and helped oust Thaksin, who remains at the heart of  the political crisis, in a 2006 coup.

A  Reuters report in December revealed that Prawit and Anupong had  secretly backed the anti-government protests that undermined the  government of Thaksin's sister, Yingluck Shinawatra. She was removed by a  court on May 7 for abuse of power and the coup ousted remaining  ministers two weeks later.

It is  not clear what powers the advisers will have, but their appointment  would suggest little prospect of compromise with the Shinawatras.

*SOME DETAINEES RELEASED*

The  military has sought to stifle opposition to its power grab, detaining  scores of politicians and activists and imposing censorship on the  media.

Deputy army spokesman  Winthai Suvaree said 200 people summoned after the coup had been  detained but 124 of them had since been released. Seventy-six were still  being held, while another 53 people had not responded to a summons.

Later, the army released at least 10 pro-Thaksin "red-shirt" activists including their leader, Jatuporn Prompan.

Yingluck  and Suthep Thaugsuban, a former deputy prime minister in a rival  government who led six months of protests against her, are among those  who have been released.

"Those  released must tell us where they live and where they plan to travel,"  Winthai said. "If they violate these rules they'll be invited to meet  us."

People being released are asked to sign a document saying they will not organize rallies, he said.

There  have been daily protests in Bangkok against the coup and on Wednesday  about 200 people confronted troops and police at the Victory Monument.  Protesters jeered and threw plastic water bottles and spray-painted "Get  Out" and "No Coup" over an army Humvee.

At least one person was detained, a Reuters reporter said.

A seven-hour curfew the army imposed after the coup has been shortened to four hours, from midnight.

*ECONOMY IN DOLDRUMS*

The  junta's new advisers also include Pridiyathorn Devakula, overseeing the  economy. A former central banker, he was finance minister in an interim  government after the 2006 coup, when strict capital controls were  introduced to hold down the baht, causing the stock market to tumble 15  percent in one day.

Highlighting the task ahead, factory output fell 3.9 percent in April from a year earlier, the 13th monthly drop in a row.

The  Commerce Ministry reported another slump in imports, down 14.5 percent  in April from a year before as companies, unsure how the politics would  develop, stopped importing machinery and consumers reined in spending.

Exports  have not been able to offset the depression in the domestic economy:  they fell 0.9 percent in April, although the ministry said it was  hopeful for 5 percent export growth this year.

Gross  domestic product shrank 2.1 percent in the first quarter of 2014 as the  anti-government protesters harassed ministries, damaged confidence and  scared off tourists.

The military  has moved quickly to tackle economic problems, notably preparing  payments for hundreds of thousands of rice farmers that the ousted  government was unable to make. 

Some  economists think the outlook could improve under the military, with the  rice payments that will allow farmers to start spending again and a vow  that a new budget will be on time and new investment plans all boding  well.

*NO ELECTION TIMETABLE, U.S. CONCERNED*

General Prayuth has not set any timetable for elections, saying broad reforms are needed first.

That  may further complicate relations with foreign governments that have  called for a speedy return to democracy, an end to censorship and the  release of politicians, protest leaders, journalists and others  detained.

"We're going to have to  continue to calibrate how we'll work with the government and military  when they don't show any pathway back to civilian rule," a senior U.S.  official told Reuters in Washington. "We're very concerned and there  will be an impact on our relationship."

Thaksin has not commented on the coup except to say he was saddened and hoped the military would treat everyone fairly.

The  Shinawatras' strength is in the north and northeast, populous, mostly  rural regions that have won them every election since 2001. Some Thaksin  loyalists had vowed to resist a coup and the army and police are  hunting for weapons.

Many Bangkok  voters support the establishment and approve of the coup if it means  ending Thaksin's influence. They say he is corrupt and disrespectful to  the monarchy, an accusation he denies.

 (Additional reporting by Amy Sawitta Lefevre, Orathai Sriring, Manunphattr Dhanananphorn in Bangkok, Andrew R.C. Marshall and Matt Spetalnick in Washington; Writing by Robert Birsel and Alan Raybould; Editing by Alex Richardson and Nick Macfie))

reuters.com

----------


## Mid

*Army: Coup Was To Avoid Failed State Scenario* (DPA)
29 May 2014                                                              

*BANGKOK* (DPA)   Thailand's military staged last week's coup to prevent the nation  becoming a failed state, the army said Thursday.

The army was forced to step in because of the  worsening political situation, deputy chief of staff, Lieutenant General  Chatchalerm Chalermsukh, told reporters.

  "No side could see eye to eye. We found weapons caches belonging to  political groups. The army is not willing to let this nation become a  failed state like Syria or Libya," Chatchalerm said.

  The general said Thailand was not in a state to survive more political turmoil.

  Thailand's economy contracted in the first quarter of 2014, something that had not happened in years.

  Exports had fallen to a two-year low and industrial output had slowed, according to reports in the Bangkok Post.

  Chatchalerm said the army was only willing to return to civilian rule when the political climate allowed such a transition.

  "We have nothing to gain from this coup. We are sacrificing ourselves  for the nation. If we don't succeed, we will go to jail. Treason is  punishable by death," he said.

  The army seized power last week after seven months of anti-government protests that led to violence and a political stalemate.

  Rights groups have been quick to protest the junta's detention of key  dissidents and its censorship of the media, something the army says is  needed to calm political tensions.

en.khaosod.co.th

----------


## Mid

*Military Tries to Control Coup Narrative*
                                                                29 May 2014

 

 

*BANGKOK* — The Thai  military is stepping up efforts to control the narrative behind the coup  it staged last week by releasing propagandist videos and continuing to  censor alternative histories. 

In a press conference this morning, deputy chief  of staff Lt. Gen. Chatchalerm Chalermsukh told reporters that the coup  was an effort to prevent Thailand from becoming “a failed state like  Syria or Libya.”

  He stressed that the military takeover was not driven by self-interest.

  "We have nothing to gain from this coup," Lt. Gen. Chatchalerm said.  "We are sacrificing ourselves for the nation. If we don't succeed, we  will go to jail. Treason is punishable by death."

  The military also interrupted all state-owned television broadcasts this morning to air a self-promoting 

 about how the military has already begun solving Thailand’s “deep-rooted problems.”

  The video opened with a female narrator explaining that while Thais  are free to choose their own political views, deepening ideological  differences in recent years have polarized Thai society and caused  violence.

  “Democracy has failed to solve this problem” and it is clear that  “elections will lead to losses,” the narrator said over footage of the  rival protest groups that were camping out in Bangkok prior to the coup.

  The military tried to step in to resolve the dispute, but the two  sides "failed to reach any agreement, forcing the military take control  of power," the narrator said, followed by a clip of army chief and  coup-leader Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha declaring the military takeover on  national television.

  Gen. Prayuth announced the coup d’état after talks with rival  political factions failed to solve the country’s decade-long political  crisis in two days.

  The twenty minute video went on to praise Gen. Prayuth for his  efforts to "swiftly solve" the country’s problems while refraining from  invoking martial law’s harshest powers.

  Under martial law, the military is authorized to censor the media, search and detain people at will, and violate a number of other internationally-recognized human rights.

  “We try our best to avoid violating human rights,” the video showed  Gen. Prayuth saying in a press conference with foreign media.  

  The short film ended with shots of rice farmers receiving overdue  payments for the paddies they sold to the government last year under its  controversial rice-subsidy program.

  The military announced earlier this week that it would distribute  billions of baht to the more than 800,000 rice farmers that are still  owed money from the rice scheme. The former government failed to pay  farmers on time because of internal mismanagement and crippling  anti-government protests that led to the dissolution of Parliament in  December.  

  Thailand’s rice farmers are among the former Pheu Thai government’s strongest supporters.

  The military is actively broadcasting its version of the 2014 coup  while it simultaneously clamps down on media outlets and individuals  that offer different narratives.Over  200 websites have been banned since the military seized power last  week, and plans for a national internet gateway are currently underway.

  In addition, hundreds of political dissidents have been summoned to report to the army, many of whom have have been detained. 

  Yesterday, Facebook was made inaccessible for millions of Thais for about an hour; the army initially took responsibility for the shutdown, but later insisted it was an innocent “technical glitch.”

en.khaosod.co.th

----------


## Bangyai

Yea " Thailand Moves Forward " ................in reverse gear.

----------


## Rural Surin

Feels like 1962.....[through 1978]

----------


## MineFalls



----------


## MineFalls



----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> 



You can disregard everything as rubbish in this interview as the presenter (who obviously knows nothing about Thailand), says 

"A country that relies entirely on tourism"

So he's 84%-94% wrong already.

 - obviously biased from the off.

----------


## robuzo

^The presenter is corrected, gently but accurately.

----------


## Mr Lick

*Coup protests in Thailand*




A protester against military rule throws a plastic garbage bin at soldiers during a scuffle at Victory Monument in Bangkok May 28, 2014. 
























An injured policeman is treated inside an ambulance during a confrontation with anti-coup protesters at the Victory monument in Bangkok May 28, 2014.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Looks like there were at least 3 of them?

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> You mean like the country did when the dems knew they were going to be ousted from the top seat and allowed the dams to overfill knowing that the worst of the flooding would be up country?
> 
> 
> The reservoirs were full because there was a drought the year before. Then a tropical storm hit with heavy rains. The reason the worst of the floods were upcountry was because the dikes were closed on the outer ring of Bangkok. The Pheu Thai party were in charge then and it was their decision. Pretty weak straw man argument you have there.


No it's not a weak "straw man argument" Ant, it's what you wish to believe like all of the other hype people claim is what I or anyone else believes. You defend your position no matter how narrow scoped it is and I believe mine, you probably didn't personally go through that huge feck up though and lose property or worse endure the illnesses post flooding so may be your point of view is more skewed towards the party line..

----------


## BaitongBoy

Any news about Suthep?...All this trouble could have been avoided if he'd been "taken out" as soon as he raised his ugly head...Then we wouldn't have to listen to the army's propaganda bs endorsed by thegent...

Someone should ask the army why he was allowed to cause all this trouble in the first place...

----------


## Waid

Have to wonder how in control these coup makers are? How far are they prepared to go before capitulating, or resorting to violence?

In the 2006 coup, the coup makers were not as confident as they led everyone to believe. It could have gone wrong so many times.

Could this coup be the one that shatters the bully's bravado - once and for all?

----------


## MineFalls

Thailand's going to face the future in short time anyways. The truth is on the way. The PAD/PDRC members should be banned from foreign nations when the crap really hits the fan. Let the Thai law be used against them and their families as they have supported its use against so many.

----------


## pseudolus

> Troy, subsistence farming in it's feudal, patchwork quilt form that exists today will give way to industrial farming with all its economy of scale and efficiencies. The farmers as they are now will quite literally wither on the vine of economic necessity and their communities will migrate to the towns and cities.
> 
> It is inevitable and, eventually, as a political force their significance will be negligible.
> 
> Progress. Whether one is for it or against it is really quite, quite irrelevant. Either way, it will happen.


Indeed. Interesting how the desired outcome of the destruction of subsistence farming, getting farmers into debt, and thus having to sell to large corporations was achieved seamlessly after the alleged "mishandling" of the flood situation? Backed up with a scheme to take the farmers product and not pay for it....

Gee someone with an open mind might start to think that this was not an accident...but instead the plan all along

----------


## Rural Surin

> Thailand's going to face the future in short time anyways. The truth is on the way. The PAD/PDRC members should be banned from foreign nations when the crap really hits the fan. Let the Thai law be used against them and their families as they have supported its use against so many.


Yet, very powerful families [and connections] that you speak of...
Influence always overrides everything.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by MineFalls
> 
> 
> Thailand's going to face the future in short time anyways. The truth is on the way. The PAD/PDRC members should be banned from foreign nations when the crap really hits the fan. Let the Thai law be used against them and their families as they have supported its use against so many.
> 
> 
> Yet, very powerful families [and connections] that you speak of...
> Influence always overrides everything.


well, it is their country after all.

Or would you prefer the sound of McThai?

You could get all the big companies to put their directors in the senate!!! true democracy!!!!!
 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Bollocks.

Chok Dee Meaung Thai.

----------


## MineFalls

So I guess you aren't critical of the US now, AS. You've joined the world mafia!

----------


## MineFalls

"Read to Resist"  It's one way some protesters are making statements in public places. Will the Junta eventually arrest them, too?


https://twitter.com/Nok_KN/status/47...462912/photo/1

----------


## Sumbitch

> Is Facebook blocked? I am unable to log in this morning.


Not yet but this is the top post on my page right now...Line, FB, Google urged to censor | Bangkok Post: news

----------


## Bettyboo

^from the above:

_Pol Maj Gen Pisit admitted he had personally met Facebook and Google's executives five times, and met Line executives in Japan three times, when he served as commander of the Technology Crime Suppression Division. But the discussions failed to yield any results. "As the ICT authority commanded by the National Council for Peace and Order [NCPO], we hope to get improved cooperation from them," he said._ 

Line, FB, Google urged to censor | Bangkok Post: news.

----------


## FlyFree

> Originally Posted by Humbert
> 
> 
> Is Facebook blocked? I am unable to log in this morning.
> 
> 
> Not yet but this is the top post on my page right now...Line, FB, Google urged to censor | Bangkok Post: news


First reaction is  :rofl: 

But it's more serious than that. It again shows how absurdly disconnected these guys are from the 21st century, a fact that carries great risk.

----------


## Yasojack

I can't access my facebook account not that i use it.

Message i got was, someone tried to log in to your account please provide your D.O.B couldn't remember my dob i provided so can not log in. :Smile:

----------


## taxexile

^ ( the bookreaders in the photos)
idiots.

the junta are firmly in control, only a massive armed uprising will dislodge them, and that is unlikely to happen, theres not enough true "rebels"  and i suspect even they dont have the stomach for it. 

there is a big difference in the bravery and commitment level required to take on the military compared to that required to anonymously toss a grenade from a motorcycle or pick up into a crowd of demonstrators at asoke.

the few silly girly students hamming it up for the western press are just embarrassing themselves in the manner of students everywhere and will achieve little.

meanwhile, the junta are efficiently and professionally continuing with their task of dismantling the legacy of thaksin.

resistance is futile, dontcha know !!

----------


## MineFalls

> ^ ( the bookreaders in the photos)
> idiots.
> 
> the junta are firmly in control, only a massive armed uprising will dislodge them, and that is unlikely to happen, theres not enough true "rebels"  and i suspect even they dont have the stomach for it. 
> 
> there is a big difference in the bravery and commitment level required to take on the military compared to that required to anonymously toss a grenade from a motorcycle or pick up into a crowd of demonstrators at asoke.
> 
> the few silly girly students hamming it up for the western press are just embarrassing themselves in the manner of students everywhere and will achieve little.
> 
> ...


The military is probably most with the rural folks. It's just the leaders who are driving/ abusing the soldiers for their own purpose. Get rid of the leaders and things will change. As for the grenade BS you posted that could have even been the military or suthep's folks. It's a fact that most of the grenades never went off or exploded in places without people even nearby or at late odd hours. It's all a farce to abuse the people and empower the same old good ol' boys of Thailand.

----------


## Yasojack



----------


## Sumbitch

They relaxed the curfew though, didn't they? Midnight to 4 AM now I unnerstand

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> there is a big difference in the bravery and commitment level required to take on the military compared to that required to anonymously toss a grenade from a motorcycle or pick up into a crowd of demonstrators at asoke.


And that is why resistance now would not be direct confrontation. In Europe during the war,  sabotage would be used to undermine the German occupiers, not simply walking up to a Wehrmacht patrol and starting a fight. 

I would be surprised if there are no Thais ready to offer some resistance. Even the act of leaving suspicious packages in public places (whether they have bombs in them or not) is a disruptive tactic that terrorises people.  Chucking a grenade on to the tracks of the skytrain would hurt nobody, but would cause a lot of disruption. 

People cannot prevail democratically or politically in Thailand. They know that is closed off to them. So, if they want to act against the junta, they simply do so using asymmetric methods.

----------


## MineFalls

All the people have to do is resist peacefully and get arrested if they want change. Are Thais even willing to do that? Just a media war is a good start. Every time the military and those directing it take away freedom and the truth in any form, they make enemies. The Junta really are exposing themselves more and more. The issues which didn't have anything to do with this are getting dug up and put in papers around the world. All this exposure can't be good for their hypocrisy. Expose the scumbags by making people aware of the truth. Just leaving papers on a bus or reading a book such as 1984 in public makes a statement. Some Thais are doing things like this. Wearing a T-shirt with something about freedom or truth on it will get into people's minds. Some devoted message pushers doing little things all around the country can weaken these dirtbags.

----------


## Bettyboo

> ^ ( the bookreaders in the photos)
> idiots.


To have beliefs and stand up for them in a way you are able -_ idiots_. If you say so, Tax, but I wouldn't have wanted to have been educated by folks with your ideology which seems to be: _it's a dog eat dog world, get as much for yourself as possible and don't respect any body else, they are all beneath me_.




> the junta are firmly in control, only a massive armed uprising will dislodge them


Untrue. They seek to be welcomed and have positive discourse about themselves; refusing this is fundamental and damages them.




> meanwhile, the junta are _efficiently and professionally_ continuing with their task of dismantling the legacy of thaksin.


You seem to be somewhat in awe, using these positive words, for a political group who are forcing their jackboot upon the masses.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Just leaving papers on a bus or reading a book such as 1984 in public makes a statement..


Insufficient. (though I like the imagery)

Resistance needs to demonstrate that the army is not capable of providing either governance or security.  I would presume that cells are already in Bangkok -could be operating quite autonomously of each other, or without any centralised organisation.

----------


## Yasojack

easiest way national strike

----------


## MineFalls

I doubt that there are any people who plan violent resistance. You can't beat the military without the people aware of the issue. The pro-government media will paint those who resist as terrorists or something like that which they have done forever. Even in the US during the lead up to Iraq and later, most people followed the media and the media went along with the with us or against us mentality. Prove to the people that right now, they really have no choice but to conform and this affects them and they might get a bit more aware. It's really pretty much as always in Thailand. Most Thais are quick to wave the flag and condemn those the military wants them to condemn. If Google and Facebook, resist the Thai government, it will be a great help for freedom here as it will force the Thais to do something if they want to stop the social chatter. If Google and Facebook give in, well that would keep Thais in their dream state without the military's actions affecting them personally as they chat about pop stars on Facebook.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> easiest way national strike


That would have to be co-ordinated. 

And resistance can't be co-ordinated due to the stranglehold on the media.  Therefore resistance has to be undertaken in pockets, either individually, or in small cells.





> I doubt that there are any people who plan violent resistance. .


Out of 60 million people? None?

----------


## MineFalls

A few but not many. Maybe some symbolic destroying of public property. If there's anyone serious about violence other than some fools I would think they would go after specific individuals. I think opposition must have planned this and must see some alternative ending than violence. The world media attention on this is powerful. That might be the higher leaders with Thaksin's response.


Just listen to this from Italy...

"Canti eTerni Ensemble and its director, the popular Italian folk singer  and writer LUCILLA GALEAZZI, dedicate the song BELLA CIAO to Thai  population. This is the most famous chant of the Italian Resistance, the  movement fighting against the domination of the Fascist Regime.  Thailand is suffering the enforcement of Martial Law set by the army. We  hope that this tragic situation will be solved soon and that democracy  will be immediately re-established. 
----
L'ensemble di  canti della tradizione popolare umbra Canti eTerni e la sua direttrice  Lucilla Galeazzi dedicano questo canto "simbolo" della Resistenza  Italiana contro l'oppressione al popolo thailandese che in questi giorni  sta subendo l'instaurazione di una dittatura. "

----------


## Humbert

> Originally Posted by Humbert
> 
> 
> Is Facebook blocked? I am unable to log in this morning.
> 
> 
> Not yet but this is the top post on my page right now...Line, FB, Google urged to censor | Bangkok Post: news


I got locked out of Facebook for attempting to upload a CNN logo which I was going to use to take a gentle swipe at the dear leader's censorship. My case is under appeal whilst they are reviewing my identity credentials.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> This is the most famous chant of the Italian Resistance, the  movement fighting against the domination of the Fascist Regime.


So what was the more effective expression of their anti-Fascist resistance? Their chanting or their fighting?

----------


## Drainpipe

Oh, the knowledge some of the above members demonstrate, remarkable

as an aside, from the Bkk Post

PT ministers brawl in army camp | Bangkok Post: Most recent

amusing, at least

----------


## Sumbitch

> I got locked out of Facebook for attempting to upload a CNN logo which I was going to use to take a gentle swipe at the dear leader's censorship. My case is under appeal whilst they are reviewing my identity credentials.


 :ourrules:

----------


## MineFalls

I just think getting the Military to increase the abusing is the answer as is getting the International community more involved. For someone like Thaksin, I think he's happy to see the spotlight brightened on the topics which just can't be discussed as those are the real issues affecting freedom in Thailand at least for him. Right now there are plenty of non-violent means to push for change. The military and yellows slime shouldn't be allowed to whitewash the past including what is happening now and in recent years. More and more voices are joining this fight. People just need to be aware and involved and awakened to the fact that their lives really are equal to others. Bringing awareness to this is important. I have no doubt that what has happened already is good for the masses of ignored Thais. The issues here are Thai but the world is also acknowledging the same problems of power and wealth. Thailand's tradition controllers just think they can control it as they always have. That's why there are more foreigners interested in the plight of the 'common man' in Thailand. Thailand is as important as anywhere but this is goes well beyond its borders. With Thailand's junta pressuring Google and Facebook, it shows that foreigners have a say in this. They have to choose whether they are going to join the oppressors (of the world) or hold tight and join the fight for empowerment of the average person. Their corporate choices in this will come back to them in their home nations.

----------


## MineFalls

> Oh, the knowledge some of the above members demonstrate, remarkable
> 
> as an aside, from the Bkk Post
> 
> PT ministers brawl in army camp | Bangkok Post: Most recent
> 
> amusing, at least


I'd like to hear what those involved in this story say. Sounds like a lawsuit if not true and more than that why would any respectable news source print it at a time like this. I wonder if it will get pulled later and denied.

----------


## Mr Lick

The reality is that there are but a handful of people willing to turn up to protest against their country being ruled temporarily by the military. 

Not exactly on a par with national dissention despite journalists digging for a sensational edge to the story.

Huffing and puffing by those who have but a singular view will no doubt continue until they are Red in the face but the truth is that the nation appears content with the current situation. Nobody died!

----------


## MineFalls

The reality is people will be jailed for 2 years if they speak out against the coup. I believe that's what the detainees have been told. People are afraid now (you wouldn't understand that coming from your background) but eventually more people will speak out. Right now voices are muzzles and that's a fact.

----------


## pickel

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> ...


It's not hype, it's fact. I'm sure the TD members that did suffer from the flooding can confirm that Yingluck and the PTP were in power at the time. The ones that have met both Ant and myself can also confirm we are not the same. You, however come across as being DriventoWank in a previous TD life.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> The reality is that there are but a handful of people willing to turn up to protest against their country being ruled temporarily by the military.


 :tumbs:

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> The reality is people will be jailed for 2 years if they speak out against the coup. I believe that's what the detainees have been told. People are afraid now (you wouldn't understand that coming from your background) but eventually more people will speak out. Right now voices are muzzles and that's a fact.



People won't be speaking out if they see their peers going to jail for two years.

Unless of course they use a false nik and reinvent themselves - though thats not so easy in the real world !

----------


## MineFalls

> Originally Posted by MineFalls
> 
> 
> The reality is people will be jailed for 2 years if they speak out against the coup. I believe that's what the detainees have been told. People are afraid now (you wouldn't understand that coming from your background) but eventually more people will speak out. Right now voices are muzzles and that's a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> People won't be speaking out if they see their peers going to jail for two years.
> 
> Unless of course they use a false nik and reinvent themselves - though thats not so easy in the real world !


I'm not sure if Thais think like that. Thais are easy to give up so many probably will just keep their ideas to themselves at this time. I'm sure it will get to many over time. The government will probably force the schools to re-educate people and who knows maybe they'll even purge the ranks of government institutions of those who don't wear yellow. Didn't they do a bit of that in decades past? Guess it all depends on how lost in time the generals are. There are plenty of Americans who relish the return of a racist, pro-Christian, war-mongering past so why would Thailand not have their version of it. The Thais are obviously much more capable of going back to that time than most other nations. Trying to hold onto some imaginary glory years. FFS!

----------


## Yasojack

See the bangkok post names the camp were they were being held :rofl:   jeez were does it stop its like being a school camp, what a complete load of bollocks





> Originally Posted by Drainpipe
> 
> 
> Oh, the knowledge some of the above members demonstrate, remarkable
> 
> as an aside, from the Bkk Post
> 
> PT ministers brawl in army camp | Bangkok Post: Most recent
> 
> ...

----------


## pseudolus

All this talk of democracy  :rofl: 

There is no democracy. It's a fallacy. Its all there to make you think you have a choice, but you don't. As Mr Carlin tells you, you have owners. 

Suck it up boys and stop bleating about democracy. You are beginning to sound like obomba and bush.

----------


## MineFalls

You don't have to read this thread Pseudolus. Why would you unless you think you may be wrong because if it is as you say there's no story here.

----------


## taxexile

> it's a dog eat dog world, get as much for yourself as possible and don't respect any body else, they are all beneath me.


it most certainly is a dog eat dog world, and although i dont concur with the rest of your statement, it very much sums up an awful lot of thailand, the most status ridden country on the planet, where no two people occupy equal status, where every social meeting starts of with people sniffing around each other to determine which one occupies the high ground and which one occupies the low ground.

----------


## Bettyboo

> it's a dog eat dog world, get as much for yourself as possible and don't respect any body else, they are all beneath me.
> 			
> 		
> 
> it most certainly is a dog eat dog world, and although i dont concur with the rest of your statement, it very much sums up an awful lot of thailand, the most status ridden country on the planet, where no two people occupy equal status, where every social meeting starts of with people sniffing around each other to determine which one occupies the high ground and which one occupies the low ground.


When you just dehumanize people in this manner then your message gets lost...

It appears that all you're doing is insulting people in an attempt to justify your feelings of superiority. Thailand is the same as any other country, it's conventional, it's framed by people in power to suit themselves (money and power) - in Thailand, that group is, and has been for many many decades, the army and ultra-nationalists. You seem to buy into their narrative very easily then blame Thais for the narrative created by the folks you are currently supporting in this thread...

----------


## taxexile

> The issues which didn't have anything to do with this are getting dug up and put in papers around the world.


where foreigners in new york and london will read it over breakfast before not giving a flying fuck.





> Just leaving papers on a bus or reading a book such as 1984 in public makes a statement.


how many thais do you think will be stung into action, take up arms, and be moved to attempt to overthrow the junta by seeing someone reading 1984 on the skytrain..

how many thais have even heard of 1984.

----------


## taxexile

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				 it's a dog eat dog world, get as much for yourself as possible and don't respect any body else, they are all beneath me.
> ...


are you saying that thais DONT spend the first two or three minutes of any encounter with a new face marking out their territory status wise. 

every wai between two thais is status dependent, acknowledging the others superior or inferior status,  as opposed to the western handshake, which is a greeting on equal terms.

nothing dehumanising (your new buzzword i see) about what ive said about the thais love of status.  its fact, and a well known fact too.

----------


## Yasojack

Betty don't know why you bother it just flies past him into another dimension.




> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				 it's a dog eat dog world, get as much for yourself as possible and don't respect any body else, they are all beneath me.
> ...

----------


## Bettyboo

> every wai between two thais is status dependent, acknowledging the others superior or inferior status


Where does that come from? Who maintains it and for what reason?

We had the same structures, different pronouns, etc, in feudal times, but we developed beyond them as the Thais are trying to do now, and as the junta/PAD/royalists are trying to stop. Sadly, you are supporting the feudal lords and the discourse they have created to empower themselves...

----------


## Drainpipe

> The reality is people will be jailed for 2 years if they speak out against the coup. I believe that's what the detainees have been told. People are afraid now (you wouldn't understand that coming from your background) but eventually more people will speak out. Right now voices are muzzles and that's a fact.



Because you state it as fact does not make it so

I don't believe people are afraid, just sensible

----------


## Drainpipe

> it most certainly is a dog eat dog world, and although i dont concur with the rest of your statement, it very much sums up an awful lot of thailand, the most status ridden country on the planet, where no two people occupy equal status, where every social meeting starts of with people sniffing around each other to determine which one occupies the high ground and which one occupies the low ground.


That is common human behaviour; as you say, it is a dog eat dog world, the whole world not just Thailand

----------


## Drainpipe

> We had the same structures, different pronouns, etc, in feudal times, but we developed beyond them


I don't think so, although the status markers may have changed, depending on which society you may wish to discuss

----------


## FlyFree

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> We had the same structures, different pronouns, etc, in feudal times, but we developed beyond them
> 
> 
> I don't think so, although the status markers may have changed, depending on which society you may wish to discuss


Exactly. It's human behaviour. It's universal. Done slightly differently in different cultures but exactly, not approximately, the same goal.

What has surprised me a little in the last few days is the lack of nuance in Tax and thegents thinking. Very linear. Black 'n white stuff, which would normally be associated with simple thinking. Not quite what I'd expected.

----------


## taxexile

> What has surprised me a little in the last few days is the lack of nuance in Tax and thegents thinking.


speaking for myself, i think that this coup is the best thing to happen to thailand in quite a while, of course it goes against the thinking of westerners and their love of the democratic process, but looking at brussels these days, i dont see much democracy in evidence there.





Oliver Cromwell’s Speech to the Long Parliament : 20 April 1653. 




> “It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which
> you have dishonoured by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your
> practice of every vice.
> 
> Ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government.
> 
> Ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would, like Esau, sell your country for a mess of pottage, and, like Judas, betray your God for a few pieces of money.
> 
> Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not
> ...



thats why the coup is a good thing. its cleansing, its a detox, its an enema.  and there are no two ways about it.

----------


## Bettyboo

^ as I'm sure you are aware - I could not agree with you more...  :Smile: 

&, your example is very informative; what happened to Ollie, what did he become, o the love of power...

Again, you bring up this notion of them and us; it's all power within society and the movement from feudal to democratic, there is nothing different or unique about it, no matter how much the PADite propaganda attempts to convince you so...




> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> We had the same structures, different pronouns, etc, in feudal times, but we developed beyond them
> 
> 
> I don't think so, although the status markers may have changed, depending on which society you may wish to discuss


I'm talking about the English language, and it's not up for debate it's fact. We say YOU no matter who you are speaking to; man, woman, your dog, your boss, the PM, head of the army, etc. Our discourse has become democratic, and that's exactly what the junta will NOT be doing because their ideology and intention is to reinforce patronage systems with levels and a strong hierarchy... Hence why the general will NOT allow people to speak to him like that (calling reporters in for asking him disrespectful questions), the LM laws will be (as has been stated in recent days) more thoroughly enforced, and general/freedom of discourse is being closed down. Some of you folks just don't get it... &, as I've realized through the 2006 to now politics, you will accept and attempt to justify ANYTHING the PADites and junta do, saying they are the best thing since sliced bred just as your brethren were saying about Hitler 80 odd years ago, justifying anything he did - the weakness of people who are not prepared to think critically and challenge power conventions is scarily evident in this thread....

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pickel
> ...


They came to power AFTER the dems were in office during the wet season, it lies firmly a their feet.. Just like 911 lies at Clinton's feet.

Who the feck is driven to wank? You come across like a blinkered moron in this life so that trumps me I'm afraid..

----------


## pickel

> Just like 911 lies at Clinton's feet.


 :rofl:

----------


## pickel

> They came to power AFTER the dems were in office during the wet season, it lies firmly a their feet.


The dems didn't control the floodgates that forced upcountry to get the worst of it.

----------


## tomta

> I don't believe people are afraid, just sensible


I'm afraid. Thai people I have spoken to are afraid.

----------


## FloridaBorn

^^They most certainly did when the gates were over-filling. Do some research before spouting nonsense.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Yes it's a purge. A good ol' fashioned hardcore, right-wing coup. It was planned and designed to eventually - at a point of their choosing - finish the job that scumbag Suthep started. They or their proxies in suits will be there until it's time for the really big outrage they're planning - makes swatting Thaksin and democracy look like child's play. They'll pull that one off too I'll bet.

----------


## pickel

^^
I'm talking about the dikes surrounding Bangkok that forced the water to stay upcountry. And like I said before, the previous year had a drought so they kept the reservoirs filled and then a tropical storm hit. Are you blaming them for an "act of God"?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Blame Fatboy for that one..

----------


## Rural Surin

> Yes it's a purge. A good ol' fashioned hardcore, right-wing coup. It was planned and designed to eventually - at a point of their choosing - finish the job that scumbag Suthep started. They or their proxies in suits will be there until it's time for the really big outrage they're planning - makes swatting Thaksin and democracy look like child's play. They'll pull that one off too I'll bet.


Seems to be an historical cycle, TS...
Guess we'll have to sit back and observe - see what develops - or doesn't.

I believe all will extend their own speculative comments perspectives of foresight, yet we really don't know how things might follow.

For the times.....this one is truly different.

I do know that if push comes to shove, I wouldn't want to be in the city or major populated centres....

----------


## Yasojack

Taken from BKK POST

Why did Abhisit and Yingluck meet? BP doesn’t doubt their sincerity in wanting to help people, but in regards to the timing one could also view it cynically. The Democrats have the Bangkok governorship and have had since 2004 so if Bangkok floods the Governor and to some extent the Democrats will take some blame whereas for Puea Thai and Yingluck, in particular, they are the central government although do have the advantage that they only just come into government. Hence, for both sides, there is something to gain from the meeting. They need to be seen as working with each other to do their upmost to help. Needless to say photos of the meeting were splashed over the front pages of newspapers yesterday and made both of them look good.




> ^^
> I'm talking about the dikes surrounding Bangkok that forced the water to stay upcountry. And like I said before, the previous year had a drought so they kept the reservoirs filled and then a tropical storm hit. Are you blaming them for an "act of God"?

----------


## FloridaBorn

> ^^
> I'm talking about the dikes surrounding Bangkok that forced the water to stay upcountry. And like I said before, the previous year had a drought so they kept the reservoirs filled and then a tropical storm hit. Are you blaming them for an "act of God"?


I'm blaming them for intentional water mis-management. That's why you don't get it, the floods began months before the water came south or even flooded the north.. The impending ousting of the installed dem government was evident so they intentionally ignored the rising water so fools like you would fall for "acts of god" and blame the new admin. Obviously their tactics worked, Especially in Bangkok of all places. Shows even the up country farmers have better perspectives then many of the "educated" city high so's who fell hook line and sinker for that one..

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
> ^^
> I'm talking about the dikes surrounding Bangkok that forced the water to stay upcountry. And like I said before, the previous year had a drought so they kept the reservoirs filled and then a tropical storm hit. Are you blaming them for an "act of God"?
> 
> 
> I'm blaming them for intentional water mis-management. That's why you don't get it, the floods began months before the water came south or even flooded the north.. The impending ousting of the installed dem government was evident so they intentionally ignored the rising water so fools like you would fall for "acts of god" and blame the new admin. Obviously their tactics worked, Especially in Bangkok of all places. Shows even the up country farmers have better perspectives then many of the "educated" city high so's who fell hook line and sinker for that one..


What might have Thai water management/mismanagement been like some 100 + years ago.....??  :Wink:

----------


## pickel

> I'm blaming them for intentional water mis-management. That's why you don't get it, the floods began months before the water came south or even flooded the north.. The impending ousting of the installed dem government was evident so they intentionally ignored the rising water so fools like you would fall for "acts of god" and blame the new admin. Obviously their tactics worked, Especially in Bangkok of all places. Shows even the up country farmers have better perspectives then many of the "educated" city high so's who fell hook line and sinker for that one..


You blame Clinton for 9/11 and it's you with the fish hook in the mouth.

Anyways, this thread is about the coup, so put it to rest already.

----------


## Dandyhole

Charupong, PT leader, "Stop the Kingdom of Fear"

----------


## KEVIN2008



----------


## buriramboy

The Junta have said they'll be remaining in power for 1-3 years and that should tell you all what it's really all about, nothing going to change that, if want to live in Thailand just have to accept that's how it is, although personally I won't be visiting or moving back till it's all done and dusted as someone still has to play his hand and that's when it will get messy.

----------


## MANICHAEAN1

On the other hand, it would take a minimum of one year for the General to have the constitution rewritten and deep seated flaws addressed. If he can do that in an "even-handed" way, ( hysterics about democracy to one side), he might come out as the best thing since sliced bread.

----------


## Waid

Likely the blue coup will remain in place until the event has come and gone. All other commentary is mere smoke-&-mirrors to placate the international community.

Thai votes are throw-away items. So sad.

----------


## tomta

> hysterics about democracy to one side), h


yeah that hysterical nonsense about democracy won't affect the next constitution

----------


## MineFalls

> Likely the blue coup will remain in place until the event has come and gone. All other commentary is mere smoke-&-mirrors to placate the international community.
> 
> Thai votes are throw-away items. So sad.


That's how I see it, Waid. But when it happens, the mess that follows could be even worse. Prayuth may even see a big big opportunity for himself. 15 months is nothing.

----------


## Yasojack

PDRC has lavish party, and draws lots of flak, wonder if they have been reported for a mass gathering which is a serious offence under martial law


PDRC party draws flak | Bangkok Post: news

----------


## leemo

> Yes it's a purge. A good ol' fashioned hardcore, right-wing coup. It was planned and designed to eventually - at a point of their choosing - finish the job that scumbag Suthep started. They or their proxies in suits will be there until it's time for the really big outrage they're planning - makes swatting Thaksin and democracy look like child's play. They'll pull that one off too I'll bet.


Yep, call nice dog nice dog as you pick up the rock.

----------


## leemo

> The Junta have said they'll be remaining in power for 1-3 years and that should tell you all what it's really all about, nothing going to change that, if want to live in Thailand just have to accept that's how it is, although personally I won't be visiting or moving back till it's all done and dusted as someone still has to play his hand and that's when it will get messy.


And when it's 'over' I'm sure everything will be just fine for you to come and live in Thailand. You never know, this might well be the last coup. 

But consider, if it is, how bright would it be to come on over?

----------


## nevets

What will be the big outrage , no blue just yellow ?

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Thai activists plan rally to defy coup protest ban - Businessweek

BANGKOK (AP) — An anti-coup activist in Thailand called Friday for a weekend rally to defy the military government's ban on demonstrations, urging those opposed to the takeover to wear masks and be ready for cat-and-mouse chases with soldiers in the capital.

The call to rally on Sunday raised concerns of a showdown, as the military reiterated its ban on political gatherings and warned it will not tolerate protests against the coup it staged May 22.

"The authorities will take legal measures against those who come out to oppose" the coup, deputy army spokesman Col. Winthai Suvaree told a news conference. "We cannot tolerate this situation happening."
Video: Thai Army to Name Prime Minister as Protests Grow

The warning came as the military sealed off a major Bangkok intersection for a second day Friday to prevent a possible protest. The massive show of force — involving hundreds of troops during the evening rush hour— came in response to small but near-daily demonstrations that have raised tension and concerns the army will crack down on protesters.

The country's powerful army chief, Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha, defended the coup as a means to restore order after seven months of increasingly violent political turbulence.

In the past week, the junta has moved to silence its critics and warned that it will not tolerate dissent.
Video: Implications of Thai Coup `Quite Severe': Vickers

It has summoned more than 250 people, including members of the government it ousted and other leading political figures, journalists, scholars and activists seen as critical of the regime. Roughly 70 people are still in custody.

Among those summoned was veteran social activist Sombat Boonngam-anong, who is allied with "Red Shirts" who backed the ousted government and has played a role in organizing anti-coup protests.

Sombat has gone into hiding but taunted the military by posting the call to protest on his Facebook page, summoning 10,000 people to come in disguise for a "mask party to celebrate the coup." Protesters have started wearing masks with the faces of political personalities, including the army chief, Prayuth.
Video: How the Thai Coup Is Impacting Japanese Automakers

"There is no need to be aggressive in opposing the coup. Smile, please, and take it easy," Sombat said. "The masks you wear ... will be enough to make the dictators in the military lose face."

"The goal is to tell the world what we think about the coup," he said, setting the meeting place at a McDonald's restaurant in central Bangkok. Anticipating that soldiers might seal the area, he urged protesters to "go play" elsewhere and listed different neighborhoods in the capital where they could regroup.

One of the McDonald's branches in Bangkok has become a gathering place for protests because of its convenient location. Some protesters have used the McDonald's logo in their anti-coup signs, replacing the "m'' in democracy with the yellow golden arches.
Video: Thai Army Chief: This Is Not a Coup

Earlier this week, McDonald's in Thailand stated its political neutrality and warned it will take "appropriate measures" to protect its trademark.

"We wish to clarify that McThai maintains and will continue maintaining a neutral position in the current political situation in Thailand," the company said in a statement.

The army coup overthrew a government that won a landslide election victory three years ago.
Video: Thai Military Takes Control of Government in Coup

At the center of Thailand's deep political divide is Thaksin Shinawatra, a former prime minister supported by many rural Thais for his populist programs but despised by others — particularly Bangkok's elite and middle classes — over allegations of corruption, abuse of power and disrespect for the monarchy. He was ousted in a 2006 coup and lives abroad in self-imposed exile, but held great influence over the overthrown government, which had been led by his sister until a court ousted her earlier this month.

Despite the latest political upheaval, life has continued largely as normal in most of the country, with tourists still relaxing at beach resorts and strolling through Buddhist temples in Bangkok and elsewhere.

A curfew remains in effect from midnight to 4 a.m. but has not affected critical travel, including that of tourists arriving at airports.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by pseudolus
> 
> 
> You totally discount the concept that the junta actually wanted to pay the farmers where as yingluck did not.
> 
> 
> Remember the PT government trying to borrow money from the GSB to pay the farmers?  Who was it that prevented them?
> 
> The fact is that there simply wasn't the money to pay farmers from rice sales, both because of a decline in value of stocks and failure, for whatever reason, to sell the stuff.  So the only option was to borrow, and repay the money from this year's tax revenue, which PT were prevented from doing.
> ...



It seems the junta, well, the General at any rate, is considering a reduction in the level of VAT and further lightening of the burden of taxation upon the poorer classes in order to stimulate the economy.

My punt that the baht will be trading at 40 to the USD by Sept is looking better and better.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> An anti-coup activist in Thailand called Friday for a weekend rally to defy the military government's ban on demonstrations, urging those opposed to the takeover to wear masks and be ready for cat-and-mouse chases with soldiers in the capital.







> "There is no need to be aggressive in opposing the coup. Smile, please, and take it easy," Sombat said. "The masks you wear ... will be enough to make the dictators in the military lose face."


I think I see a slight flaw to the plan. How will you know if they're smiling if they're wearing masks?

----------


## Sumbitch

Anybody see the latest TV presser by the NCPO this morning at 8 AM? It was in Thai with very good English subtitles but about 45 minutes long. Tough to follow along for me 'cuz I just woke up from a classic Chang Classic hangover. But I was particularly interested in what they would say about TV censorship and the curfew. I caught these bits: the signal was pretty positive that the curfew restrictions will be gradually lifted and in a piecemeal process (tourist areas first, e.g.). About the TV censorship that seems to be indefinite (although he did say there are no plans to regulate social media Web sites). The guy went off on a rave how the media sites exaggerated, instigated and played sides. It doesn't look like I'll be getting my CNN anytime soon. The summary at the end listed 3 stages: I know the first stage is estimated to take 2-3 months and the last stage is the election. So that's looking down the road quite a bit (1 year). I don't recall the specifics of these stages. A little help, please? (Needless to say, the innumerable Thai political pundits spending their lives keeping this thread alive will feel free to make all necessary corrections to my post without my telling them to feel free.)

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> My punt that the baht will be trading at 40 to the USD by Sept is looking better and better.


No brainer.

A weak baht is the best thing for 95% of Thais. The weaker the baht the better. More tourists and more exports.

They are almost totally fuel self-sufficient now.

----------


## Sumbitch

> The weaker the baht the better.


Certainly true for American expats.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by buriramboy
> 
> 
> The Junta have said they'll be remaining in power for 1-3 years and that should tell you all what it's really all about, nothing going to change that, if want to live in Thailand just have to accept that's how it is, although personally I won't be visiting or moving back till it's all done and dusted as someone still has to play his hand and that's when it will get messy.
> 
> 
> And when it's 'over' I'm sure everything will be just fine for you to come and live in Thailand. You never know, this might well be the last coup. 
> 
> But consider, if it is, how bright would it be to come on over?


I should imagine there will be no practical changes. The Thai will remain Thai, the weather will still be hot, the cuisine still monotonous, the TV will be puerile, the place will remain as dirty and scruffy as it always has been, the cost of living will remain lower than in the West, prostitution will still be available and cheap, traffic will remain anarchic, pedestrians will still risk life and limb and the tourists will still come. The only certainty of change it seems is the depreciation of the baht against Sterling which is great news if one is funded in Blighty.

----------


## Yasojack

Thailand are dependent on imports of fuel, possibly fossil fuels there ok with




> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> My punt that the baht will be trading at 40 to the USD by Sept is looking better and better.
> 
> 
> No brainer.
> 
> A weak baht is the best thing for 95% of Thais. The weaker the baht the better. More tourists and more exports.
> 
> They are almost totally fuel self-sufficient now.

----------


## taxexile

> They are almost totally fuel self-sufficient now.


that must be why they still need to import nearly 800,000 bbl/day of oil.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Indeed, I think he's had a bit of a brain fart there.

A devalued baht would be far more beneficial all round than tinkering with the taxation rates.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Thailand are dependent on imports of fuel, possibly fossil fuels there ok with





> that must be why they still need to import nearly 800,000 bbl/day of oil.





> Indeed, I think he's had a bit of a brain fart there.


OK - maybe I'm a few years ahead of myself here - but the way is clear.

Almost all vehicles in this country now run on fuels produced within the country. The tech leaps in solar over the past ten years coupled with this fact show clearly that Thailand could easily wean itself off oil imports over the next 10 years.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Certainly true for American expats.


True for every tourist/expat living via a foreign currency.

Oh look - buy one get one free - no wonder dad's gone to Thailand.

----------


## Yasojack

According to Khun Prayuth they are moving into Alternatives fuels




> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> Thailand are dependent on imports of fuel, possibly fossil fuels there ok with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> According to Khun Prayuth that are moving into Alternatives fuels


It would be fantastic if Thailand could lead the way for once.
It certainly has the resources.
Let's pray for a bit of vision
 :Smile:

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> They are almost totally fuel self-sufficient now.
> 			
> 		
> 
> that must be why they still need to import nearly 800,000 bbl/day of oil.


Do you have any idea what amount that is in comparison to the fuel used daily which is produced internally? 

Any idea what it's earmarked for - i.e heavy industry? re-export etc?

----------


## taxexile

i'm not sure i agree with your assumption that thailand produces its own fuels.


Economic Update

Fuel for Thailand’s future

Thailand |

22 Oct 2013

Energy consumption in Thailand is set to jump by 75% over the coming two decades as the economy expands and a more affluent society takes to the roads in increasing numbers, according to a new report. However, this new growth and mobility will come at a cost, with dependence on oil imports set to rise and increasing susceptibility to external price shocks.

A recent report from the International Energy Agency (IEA) on the energy outlook for South-east Asia, released on October 2, found that Thailand’s oil import bill could climb to $70bn by 2035, three times its present level.

According to the report, Thailand is the second-largest energy consumer in the region, ranked behind just Indonesia. Its energy requirements amounted to 118m tonnes oil equivalent (TOE) in 2011, with almost all of this met through imports. The IEA estimates that Thailand’s energy consumption will hit 206m TOE in 2035, amounting to a 75% increase over the two-decade-plus period. While the agency says the country’s population will remain relatively stable, the economy will treble in size over the coming 22 years, driving the higher demand for energy, with oil continuing to be the fuel of choice.

“Fossil fuels are by far the most important source of energy in Thailand and are projected to remain so through to 2035, with their share of the primary energy mix remaining above 80% throughout the period,” the report said. “Oil keeps its position as the dominant fuel, with demand rising from 1m barrels per day in 2012 to 1.6m barrels per day in 2035.”

Coal to play increased role in power generation.

However, coal is seen as the potential replacement for at least some of Thailand’s oil and gas consumption, with usage expected to rise by 4% per year to reach 47m TOE by 2035, equivalent to 23% of the projected total. Most of this will be consumed by power stations, as demand for electricity continues to increase. According to the IEA, coal-fired plants will provide just over one-third of the nation’s needs in 2035, while the share of natural gas will fall from 68% to 52%.

The biggest single call on energy, and in particular oil, will be the transport sector, which will use 41m TOE per year by 2035. For the most part, the rise will result from a growing number of private vehicles on the road, which is set to jump from 3m to 10m. Thailand will also see many more buses and commercial vehicles take to the nation’s roads, pushing up diesel consumption as well. The IEA puts Thailand’s fuel mix for 2035 at 84% oil-based, 10% gas and 6% biofuels, with oil’s contribution only marginally down from that at present.

Risk of external shocks.

The IEA also warned that the Thai economy was particularly vulnerable to external shocks, disruptions to its energy supplies and oil cost escalation. According to a report issued by Bank of America (BofA) Merril Lynch in early September regarding the possible impact of the Syrian conflict on Asian economies, Thailand was more exposed than most countries in the region to any destabilisation of the global oil market.

A 10% increase in international oil prices would cut Thai GDP by 45 basis points, while pushing up the consumer price index (CPI) by 25 basis points, the report said. Of the 11 countries surveyed, only South Korea would see a greater impact in terms of GDP, while the effect on CPI would be higher in just four countries – Indonesia, the Philippines, India and Malaysia.

One measure that the IEA put forward to ease the high rate of oil usage was scaling back subsidies. At the end of June, the government said it was considering following the lead of both Indonesia and Malaysia and reducing fuel subsidies, which cost the state some $8bn in 2012.

Savings could be redirected into energy infrastructure, with more fuel-efficient coal-fired power stations being an obvious investment. Though the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand has plans to bring another four power stations using clean coal technology on-line by 2028, doubling the present number in operation, this additional capacity will likely fall short of demand. The gap could be filled by the private sector, either acting in partnership with the state or alone, though any new plants will be dependent on imports to fire their turbines.

Fuel for Thailand

----------


## Yasojack

Ye it would be good as currently a large percentage of it is exported.




> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> According to Khun Prayuth that are moving into Alternatives fuels
> 
> 
> It would be fantastic if Thailand could lead the way for once.
> It certainly has the resources.
> Let's pray for a bit of vision

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> i'm not sure i agree with your assumption that thailand produces its own fuels.
> 
> 
> Economic Update
> 
> Fuel for Thailands future
> 
> Thailand |
> 
> ...


Tax.

This article.

Report.

According to.......

IEA - International Energy Agency - affordable clean energy for all | iea.org

Right??

IEA was

wait for it.....

*"Establishment of the new organization was proposed by United States Secretary of State Henry Kissinger in his address to the Pilgrims Society in London"*

International Energy Agency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 ::chitown:: 
Just another biased propaganda arm of a corporate interest that hides behind the cloak of a charity/ngo etc.

SOP these days sadly - "political advertorials"

----------


## taxexile

its from the oxford business group. i put a link to the article after the quoted information.



read into it what you like. but facts is facts.







> OBG FACTS
> 
> OUR STAFF COMES FROM 30 COUNTRIES AND SPEAK 18 LANGUAGES
> 
> OBG HAS PUBLISHED 216 REPORTS IN 20 YEARS
> 
> OUR WEBSITE CONTAINS OVER 25,000 ORIGINAL ARTICLES
> 
> DEDICATED IN-COUNTRY OFFICES RESEARCH AND MEET WITH SENIOR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS AND SENIOR EXECUTIVES DURING A PERIOD OF UP TO 12 MONTHS
> ...

----------


## roger77

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> An anti-coup activist in Thailand called Friday for a weekend rally to defy the military government's ban on demonstrations, urging those opposed to the takeover to wear masks and be ready for cat-and-mouse chases with soldiers in the capital.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gee shagger I thought you were smart,   they wear a smiley face !!!!! :Smile:

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> According to Khun Prayuth that are moving into Alternatives fuels
> 
> 
> It would be fantastic if Thailand could lead the way for once.
> It certainly has the resources.
> Let's pray for a bit of vision


Ah yes, vision, what we see for the future and what we do to realise those dreams. 

Much rests on the vision of our glorious leaders, just as it did with our previous glorious leaders.

----------


## Troy

I see Shag is being correct with all his facts as usual.... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Am I right in thinking thegent doesn't give a doggy-pooh about Thailand just as long as he gets more baht for his buck? 

Let's hope this relaxed attitude about the Coup doesn't pop-up and bite you on the bum.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Err, Troy, I'm a farang, what else would I be worried about? If I were to be welcomed as a potential migrant and afforded citizenship rights I may be interested in other matters. However, the relationship is such that my life here is, was and always shall be, simply motivated by the need to maintain a standard of living in which I can successfully insulate myself from the Thai and enjoy myself.

How these people choose to disport themselves is really a matter for them and none of my business. My contempt for their hypocrisy, greed, recklessness, stupidity and propensity for deceit is well documented within the forum. I do not see this particular coup changing anything very much and as such I remain quite indifferent although their silliness does wear one down. 

If they can only manage one thing I would settle for the introduction of a functioning pedestrian road safety system within the urban environment. When that happens I might actually develop some interest in them but since hell will freeze over before that happens I shall remain as I am.

----------


## buriramboy

Just read a certain somebody is back in Thailand and he commands a lot of soldiers, be interesting to see where their loyalty lies, to him or the junta.

----------


## terry57

> True for every tourist/expat living via a foreign currency.




Sounds like all those Australian dollars sitting in my Safe will stay in cash and I'll start using the money in my Thai Bank account. 

Thanks for the heads up.  :Smile:

----------


## Yasojack

Just watching the news the army are really spreading the love about, free concert free hair cuts free ice cream.

Must be winning the people over by now surely :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Rural Surin

> Just read a certain somebody is back in Thailand and he commands a lot of soldiers, be interesting to see where their loyalty lies, to him or the junta.


One and the same - him and the new regime - are they not?

The relationship is quite deep.

----------


## Yasojack

khun prayuth will be getting his own TV progamme every friday called,"Returning Happiness to the people"

Prayuth to speak every Friday | Bangkok Post: Most recent

starting to get visions of

----------


## Mr Lick

> Just watching the news the army are really spreading the love about, free concert free hair cuts free ice cream


No doubt Prayuth will increase the army's budget to cover the financial loss. Perhaps he should be working for Goldman  :Smile:

----------


## Yasojack

or maybe has shares in siam commercial :Smile:

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Just watching the news the army are really spreading the love about, free concert free hair cuts free ice cream.
> 
> Must be winning the people over by now surely


George Orwell 1984 - *Ministry of Love,* worst of the worst for torture.. Now we have "Reconciliation Centers" run by the military in 'selected' provinces - now that's as scary as it gets..

This whole scenario was predicted though.. many times, by many people on this site

----------


## Sumbitch

> Just watching the news the army are really spreading the love about, free concert free hair cuts free ice cream.


The Lord Junta gives (ice cream, hair cuts, free concert) and the Lord Junta takes away (Western media TV access, freedom of speech, freedom to congregate, freedom to be on the streets at night). That seems like a fair exchange to 12 year olds.  :ssssh:

----------


## robuzo

I realize the army like waving their big guns around in public and generally scaring the crap out of people, but I would like to know under what circumstances the Thai army would find it appropriate to open up with a light machine gun- or any automatic weapon- in a big crowded city. It's when they come out with weapons that I wonder what sort of opposition they might anticipate. Is it merely a boyish need to wave a big dick around or are they considering the possibility of resistance to the coup from, say, military units commanded by anti-coup forces?

----------


## Tom Sawyer

I'm putting money with a friend that Army hidden hand lets off a couple of hand grenades Sunday - maybe even to hurt some conscripts to blame Reds.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Remember the objective - to show the requirement of Junta and the eventual assession

----------


## FloridaBorn

> are they considering the possibility of resistance to the coup from, say, military units commanded by anti-coup forces?


Yes, this is what I was intimating a few pages back.. There has been no public show of support from the other military branches or the police at press conferences, it does not seem convincing. Seems maybe they are sitting back possibly assessing the peoples response before taking sides and that would also account for the Army's strong handed approach to squelch an uprising before it happens so as not to involve the other branches and the police..

----------


## Yasojack

Do they have a choice?

whilst all the protests were going on i'm sure many wondered why was the PT govt standing back and letting them do what they wanted, possibly now they were told if they did anything what the consequences were.




> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> are they considering the possibility of resistance to the coup from, say, military units commanded by anti-coup forces?
> 
> 
> Yes, this is what I was intimating a few pages back.. There has been no public show of support from the other military branches or the police at press conferences, it does not seem convincing. Seems maybe they are sitting back possibly assessing the peoples response before taking sides and that would also account for the Army's strong handed approach to squelch an uprising before it happens so as not to involve the other branches and the police..

----------


## Waid

What are the chances of an early re-coup?

Blue Chan-Ocha doesn't seem overly confident - looks more like testing just how far they can go before having to make real life-changing decisions. Perhaps tomorrow's activities will tell?

I noticed that it took four days before Blue Chan-Ocha claimed approval for their moves. No presence was evident at the ceremony & the document shown did not display a signature - oddly-enough. Smoke-&-mirrors perhaps?

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> are they considering the possibility of resistance to the coup from, say, military units commanded by anti-coup forces?
> 
> 
> Yes, this is what I was intimating a few pages back.. There has been no public show of support from the other military branches or the police at press conferences, it does not seem convincing.


Not convincing but the police protecting soldiers from angry crowds is quite ironic.

----------


## pickel

> Just watching the news the army are really spreading the love about, free concert free hair cuts free ice cream.  Must be winning the people over by now surely


So similar to Thaksin.




> It's when they come out with weapons that I wonder what sort of opposition they might anticipate. Is it merely a boyish need to wave a big dick around or are they considering the possibility of resistance to the coup from, say, military units commanded by anti-coup forces?


Or, possibly, the blatant obvious, which is that it's more likely to be red shirts.




> I'm putting money with a friend that Army hidden hand lets off a couple of hand grenades Sunday - maybe even to hurt some conscripts to blame Reds.


Sure. The reds never do that.

----------


## Waid

^ Foul! I think the events behind that picture has been explained in freely-available literature. It is not conclusively the work of 'reds' as you appear to claim. Some sources mention friendly fire, other mention third hand.

What is your point, Pickel? You seem to be incredibly anti-something.

----------


## robuzo

> What are the chances of an early re-coup?
> 
> Blue Chan-Ocha doesn't seem overly confident - looks more like testing just how far they can go before having to make real life-changing decisions. Perhaps tomorrow's activities will tell?
> 
> I noticed that it took four days before Blue Chan-Ocha to claim approval for their moves. No presence was evident at the ceremony & the document shown did not display a signature - oddly-enough. Smoke-&-mirrors perhaps?


Something doesn't quite feel right about what is going on. Flat-out stating no elections possible for a long time, making a lot of noise about wanting to be loved- bread and circuses! Sorry, ice cream and concerts!- and for the people to be happy again (sounds like a returning first-time tourist- "Oh, the Thais are such happy people!"), is not really from the traditional coup (18 coups sort of makes overthrowing the government part of Thailand's democratic tradition).

----------


## Mr Lick

> but I would like to know under what circumstances the Thai army would find it appropriate to open up with a light machine gun- or any automatic weapon


'Rules of Engagement' usually  :Smile:

----------


## Yasojack

Gentleman lottery today, could the numbers be centrered  around the happy coup?

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> I'm putting money with a friend that Army hidden hand lets off a couple of hand grenades Sunday - maybe even to hurt some conscripts to blame Reds.


I would be more taken with the commitment and gumption of the Red Resistance if they were to do it themselves.

Civil resistance shows that an army-in-occupation cannot provide the security that it claims to.

----------


## MineFalls

> 



Today's soldier on the humvee At Terminal 21's protest appears to have ammo in his weapons unlike the day of the coup or martial law above..

----------


## MineFalls

Today's anti-coup resistance symbol. This might stick around...
https://twitter.com/spywarey/status/...187137/photo/1

----------


## pickel

> I think the events behind that picture has been explained in freely-available literature.


Got a link?




> What is your point, Pickel? You seem to be incredibly anti-something.


My point is that there are posters on this board that refuse to accept the reality that both sides have weapons and are capable of violence. Those same posters will call me a PADite for reminding them of the truth, yet not understanding that I feel Suthep should have met the same fate as Seh Daeng.

----------


## MineFalls

Some protest photos from around Th today...

Protest at Benjasiri Park near Emporium
https://twitter.com/ThaiFarmer_Son


Asoke Terminal 21
https://twitter.com/ThaiFarmer_Son


https://twitter.com/ThaiFarmer_Son

----------


## MineFalls

Got it now. Fiction meets the real world...
https://twitter.com/Neu_tri_no




https://twitter.com/Pat_ThaiPBS

----------


## MineFalls

Places at Asoka Terminal 21...
https://twitter.com/kaekaija/status/...866688/photo/1

----------


## Mid

> Today's anti-coup resistance symbol. This might stick around...
> https://twitter.com/spywarey/status/...187137/photo/1


Index Finger : Freedom

Middle Finger : Human Rights

Ring Finger : Free Press

----------


## sabang

Australia appears to have gone further than the US in denouncing the coup-

*Australia postpones military activities with Thailand, puts junta on blacklist*

_The Australian Government continues to have grave concerns about the actions of the military in Thailand.

Since the military seized control of government functions on 22 May, the Government has registered our concerns to authorities in Bangkok through Australia’s Ambassador to Thailand and the Thai Embassy in Canberra.

In line with our concerns, Australia is reducing our engagement with the Thai military and will lower the level of our interaction with the Thai military leadership.

Australia has postponed three activities planned for coming weeks in Thailand: a military operations law training course for Thai military officers; a reconnaissance visit for a counter improvised explosive device training exercise; and a reconnaissance visit for a counter terrorism training exercise. We will continue to review defence and other bilateral activities.

The Australian Government has also put in place a mechanism to prevent the leaders of the coup from travelling to Australia.

The Australian Government continues to call on the military to set a pathway for a return to democracy and the rule of law as soon as possible, to refrain from arbitrary detentions, to release those detained for political reasons and to respect human rights and fundamental freedoms._

... *BP*: Am not surprised that a government has individually targeted members of the military junta and essentially put them on an immigration blacklist. It is more a symbolic gesture as it is unlikely the junta members will travel to Australia anyway, but it is a clear statement by the Australian government. The only surprise really is that it is Australia that is first out of the blocks. It is also an upping of the ante from their previous statement on May 23 that they are gravely concerned by the military coup. This upping of the ante will raise questions about  the response from other countries, particularly for European and the other English-speaking countries, given Australia has acted. Will these countries follow suit? Will the Thais retaliate

http://asiancorrespondent.com/123326...ion-blacklist/

CNN has been blocked since the US reaction- will Australian Network be next?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## baldrick

> Index Finger : Freedom  Middle Finger : Human Rights  Ring Finger : Free Press


fated to launch thousands of selfies for face book

drama queenery is contagious

----------


## Bettyboo

> The Australian Government has also put in place a mechanism to prevent the leaders of the coup from travelling to Australia.


The junta won't like that; being the "voice of the people" and "good people"... Interesting to see if this is repeated by other nations.

Clearly the Aussie government doesn't feel the same way as some of the sexpats on this thread...

----------


## koman

> Originally Posted by sabang
> 
> The Australian Government has also put in place a mechanism to prevent the leaders of the coup from travelling to Australia.
> 
> 
> The junta won't like that; being the "voice of the people" and "good people"... Interesting to see if this is repeated by other nations.
> 
> Clearly the Aussie government doesn't feel the same way as some of the sexpats on this thread...


Just so long as the generals don't get all pissed off and kick all the Aussies out of Thailand, tell Aussie tourists to piss off etc.......sanctions and/or retaliation can work both ways .. :Confused:   A lot depends on some kind of consistency amongst the "developed" nations in how they respond to this situation.    Talk is cheap...  action is lethargic...hypocrisy is widespread.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Just so long as the generals don't get all pissed off and kick all the Aussies out of Thailand, tell Aussie tourists to piss off etc


The junta are closing down discourse and reframing social discourse in a ultra royalist nationalistic manner, so you can expect some difficulties for foreigners. I'm sure they'd prefer to keep all the tourist revenue streams open, but that's not their primary objective... If the international community gets tough on the junta, and the reframing of Thai discourse/history is not accepted either nationally or internationally then I'd expect the current junta to be forcibly removed; I don't think Thailand will be allowed to become another Myanmar, but we just don't know...

I got offered a decent job close to my new house about 3 months ago, but told them I wouldn't take it at this time or until after the big change; my view stays the same there, just more so.

----------


## Yasojack

the junta are in place now because of the war that will erupt between factions about the succession.

If the junta are in place, they get to choose, or not to choose

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by koman
> 
> Just so long as the generals don't get all pissed off and kick all the Aussies out of Thailand, tell Aussie tourists to piss off etc
> 
> 
> The junta are closing down discourse and reframing social discourse in a ultra royalist nationalistic manner, so you can expect some difficulties for foreigners. I'm sure they'd prefer to keep all the tourist revenue streams open, but that's not their primary objective... If the international community gets tough on the junta, and the reframing of Thai discourse/history is not accepted either nationally or internationally then I'd expect the current junta to be forcibly removed; I don't think Thailand will be allowed to become another Myanmar, but we just don't know...
> 
> I got offered a decent job close to my new house about 3 months ago, but told them I wouldn't take it at this time or until after the big change; my view stays the same there, just more so.


I'm not buying into such scenarios as harsh sanctions or "forcible" interventions...
I don't recall any such activities from the benevolent Western powers during the decades of militarism/nationalistic regimes in Thailand.....what makes this one any different? Nothing.

Strong rhetoric is all from these camps. 
Business as usual...

I will remind the historic illusionists that select Western govts have a rich tradition of maintaining the highest friendly relationships with dictatorships of every flavor forever - regardless of ideology. Most particular offenders are the Anglo-American communities....

I'll say it again.....Thailand will remain a darling of Western/Asian strategies and relationships - as it always has been. Doesn't matter the rulers or any faux condemnation.

Business as usual.

----------


## koman

> Strong rhetoric is all from these camps. 
> Business as usual...


Agreed; that is the most likely scenario,  but at the moment we just don't know for sure how far the latest generation of generals are prepared to go to consolidate power.  History is a good guide, but it no guarantee of future results....

----------


## Necron99

> Originally Posted by koman
> 
> Just so long as the generals don't get all pissed off and kick all the Aussies out of Thailand, tell Aussie tourists to piss off etc
> 
> 
> The junta are closing down discourse and reframing social discourse in a ultra royalist nationalistic manner, so you can expect some difficulties for foreigners. I'm sure they'd prefer to keep all the tourist revenue streams open, but that's not their primary objective... If the international community gets tough on the junta, and the reframing of Thai discourse/history is not accepted either nationally or internationally then I'd expect the current junta to be forcibly removed; I don't think Thailand will be allowed to become another Myanmar, but we just don't know...
> 
> I got offered a decent job close to my new house about 3 months ago, but told them I wouldn't take it at this time or until after the big change; my view stays the same there, just more so.


How tough are the Powers on Indonesia?
Malaysia?
Singapore?
Vietnam?

As long as their is a modicum of demonstrable freedoms, the Powers will tolerate almost anything for stability. Even a Constitutional Monarchy which is not also a free and equitable democracy.

Why are you so hung up on democracy? You admit yourself that it is a failure in the west.
Honestly, you sound like a born again christian the way you go on.

----------


## baldrick

> The junta are closing down discourse and reframing social discourse in a ultra royalist nationalistic manner


they are not doing it for fun - they are watching the fan closely

but as for your average peasant , of which you are one - life will be basically the same 

except they will get paid for their rice

----------


## MineFalls



----------


## Rural Surin

> life will be basically the same


No one seems to comprehend this reality....of a population that is largely rural and the ability to be self-sufficient.

The concepts are very true and basic.
Thai life, generally speaking, is not interfered with by any complex powers to be in any given period. The exception might be life in the big city and associations....

And those whom truly don't have a clue, go on and on and on about how any of this typical Thai political mess has an [real life] affect on the masses.....

The false "sky is falling" scenarios just don't work.

----------


## MineFalls

Undercover cops supposedly forced a woman into a taxi and took her away for raising the three finger protest sign.




BKKPost has a better clip of this at...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/poli...ee-finger-sign

----------


## MineFalls

Here's another woman who was arrested for protesting in another area.

https://twitter.com/BangkokDan/statu...049857/photo/1

----------


## Rural Surin

> Why are you so hung up on democracy? You admit yourself that it is a failure in the west.


I've often questioned myself why this mantra is repeated ad nauseum....

----------


## MineFalls

A soldier gives the three finger salute.
https://twitter.com/steviegell/statu...731008/photo/1

----------


## Yasojack

suggest you all read or listen  prayuths speech again.

His references to reforms = what were they in reference to?

his reference to democracy returning(which ever way you see democracy)=when he and privy have decided what will happen when the inevitable happens.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Agreed; that is the most likely scenario, but at the moment we just don't know for sure how far the latest generation of generals are prepared to go to consolidate power. History is a good guide, but it no guarantee of future results....


Indeed. Thus, every arrest, every 3 fingered salute, every book reading, every instance of challenging discourse makes it harder for other nations to ignore this junta. We have to look at the concept of power and where it comes from; it may look like prayuth has a lot of power, but he really is in a very difficult position where his power is mostly an illusion - every single Thai that doesn't accept their discourse being closed down is eroding his power, and it could turn very very quickly, snowball against him.




> Why are you so hung up on democracy?


I'm not hung up on the current notion of western democracy. I'm a firm believer in equal opportunity in business, under the law and in all social contexts - this is what's supported by all the academics and journalists who are being arrested and detained.  It's very clear, people who drive the Mercs into crowds at a bus stop, or shoot people in a nightclub, or put their sword upon the table need to be dealt blind justice.  Folks who wanna work hard to make their lot better deserve that opportunity. Corruption in all areas needs to be massively reduced. The junta are not interested in these areas, they are corrupt to the bone; they have massive wealth on small salaries, they often have massive houses on land they are not entitled to build or live on (remember the last junta leader and his house in KhaoYai, did he ever move out or is he still living illegally there? He is one of the "good men"...), and of course they put their sword on the table...

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by Waid
> 
> I think the events behind that picture has been explained in freely-available literature.
> 
> 
> Got a link?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not too late, though I wouldn't hold my breath because he's still useful.

----------


## Necron99

> Originally Posted by Necron99
> 
> Why are you so hung up on democracy?
> 
> 
> I'm not hung up on the current notion of western democracy. I'm a firm believer in equal opportunity in business, under the law and in all social contexts - this is what's supported by all the academics and journalists who are being arrested and detained.  It's very clear, people who drive the Mercs into crowds at a bus stop, or shoot people in a nightclub, or put their sword upon the table need to be dealt blind justice.  Folks who wanna work hard to make their lot better deserve that opportunity. Corruption in all areas needs to be massively reduced. The junta are not interested in these areas, they are corrupt to the bone; they have massive wealth on small salaries, they often have massive houses on land they are not entitled to build or live on (remember the last junta leader and his house in KhaoYai, did he ever move out or is he still living illegally there? He is one of the "good men"...), and of course they put their sword on the table...




Can you name a country where those conditions exist?
A country whose political process hasn't been usurped by the corporations or one that isn't leveraging the process by democratising itself down to the lowest common denominator with immigration and welfare?

Two would be nice, but I'll settle for one.

----------


## Bettyboo

Only every developed nation in the world, N99... 

I agree that there seems to be a dip after democracy has been reached, a dip where bankers, big corporations, etc, take control, and that's what we are seeing in places such as the US and UK now, but that doesn't change the basic premise I put forward which was with regard to movement from a feudal system to a 'democratic system', such as South Korea and Japan have successfully undertaken in this region. Taiwan and Hong Kong are also interesting as 'flawed democracies' that are/have developed very well.
Study in Taiwan

It'd be great to see Thailand moving forward to a 'flawed democracy' status rather than back towards a feudal system; that's the point. Every nation moves at their own rate, but terror regimes/juntas that move the nation backwards are no good for anybody but the select few who control that system...

----------


## Rural Surin

Bottom line of this discourse/thread: _It's what you want not what they want...._

Understand the Thai population and mindset before attempting to save their world.
As I view currently, most still aren't getting it...those that do remain silent.

...and those who don't go on and on. Making shite up as they go along.
Fearing of things that don't exist. Saving the poor Orientals from themselves as they know no better - and we do, of course.

Remembering the basic Chinese adage...
_Those who know don't speak, those who speak don't know._

----------


## terry57

> It'd be great to see Thailand moving forward to a 'flawed democracy' status rather than back towards a feudal system; that's the point.
> 
>  Every nation moves at their own rate, but terror regimes/juntas that move the nation backwards are no good for anybody but the select few who control that system...



Betty, 

Considering you have been coming to Thailand for a very long time and know its history well your post above is simply a bag load of shit. 

Everything in Thailand takes time, it seems like a massive gong show everytime they have a Coup but in the end it all sorts it self out.

You are just banging on about something that spins around inside your head and ain't exactly fact. 

Fair enough Betty, its your opinion, whatever EH.  :Confused:

----------


## Bettyboo

^ Terry, with all due respect, I've said nothing that is contestable. Societies move, feudalism moves to a form of democracy (for better or worse, but it is inevitable), juntas are a common artifact that attempt to hold back time and social development for the sake of their own profit and power (to the entrenched feudal 'elite'). Just to note, Terry, I'm simply repeating the words of Rama VII, they can be found in teh museum to him and his Queen which is close to KhaoSan Rd - well worth a visit next time you're in town - his handwritten words can be seen in English and Thai.

^^ RS, sorry but that doesn't make full sense.

Thais are being arrested, not folks who 'dont understand the Thai population and mindset'...

----------


## terry57

> Thais are being arrested .



Of course they are getting arrested,  there is a fukin coup on. 

Like it or not the Army at this point make the rules.

Break those rules and you are in the slam. 

You seem to think its a smart move to pull on the Army.   :Confused: 

I say Betty , you put your body where your mouth is and get out there with your mates. 

No, would not do that EH.   :spam2:

----------


## Rural Surin

> RS, sorry but that doesn't make full sense.
> 
> Thais are being arrested, not folks who 'dont understand the Thai population and mindset'...


Thais have been arrested, detained, suppressed, "disappeared", etc...under "normal" democratically elected peaceful [recent] govts as well.....

General everyday policing/military corruption and brutality that has perpetuated itself since memory - regardless of political sitting presence.

The attention is prioritized, innit?

----------


## Bettyboo

^ so, RS, the juntas rules and regulations are the same as under the Yinluck, abhisit, samak and Thaksin governments? There are similarities, but also very significant differences. Saying it's all same old same old, it doesn't matter, etc, just isn't true. Every time is unique, people are people and their lives and rights are precious. Open dialog, freedom of speech, rule of law, a functioning judiciary, respecting a constitution/election are fundamental which is why they are enshrined in various documents, institutions and bodies all over the world. Perhaps, you have a different opinion...

^^ Terry, you are just playing the _argue any point with somebody you've already decided you don't agree with_ game. If you actually read the words, think about their meaning and then consider their truth and relevance then the conversation takes to a whole new level.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Of course they are getting arrested, there is a fukin coup on.


If you use such 'arguments' both as a retort to challenges to the junta and as a justification for the juntas actions, it's rather circular; that's not discussion, Terry...

----------


## baldrick

> who was arrested


who is the boy with the "village people" facial hair ?




> under the law





> developed nation


in the country held up as the bastion of democracy it is now only the 




> the corporations


and the rich who have access to lawyers outside of crimminal law

I understand why you  think this unsurping of one man one vote ( if you own a popular media  outlet it is magnified ) is wrong , but I think you are barracking for the wrong fork

----------


## Bettyboo

> I understand why you think this unsurping of one man one vote ( if you own a popular media outlet it is magnified ) is wrong , but I think you are barracking for the wrong fork


I don't support any side as such, Baldrick. Just the movement forward, slow or fast. Hence why a movement backwards is problematic.

I would have been delighted if abhisit had moved democratic institutions, blind justice, transparency, etc, forward, just didn't happen...

----------


## baldrick

> blind justice, transparency, etc, forward


it is not just thailand - the way forward for everywhere is hindered 

with 'tinternet uncontrolled by the lobbying sect there maybe a chance

but even wikipedia is gamed

though the norwegians are moving very quickly to having all the govt info online

transparency will come and then with education you may see true democracy - though that may well turn out to be a sad sad way forward

though the until the demagogues are neutered democracy will always be failed via the millions of lazy/stupid people

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Must admit it does seem the Junta doesn't have as firm a grip as they'd like to suggest. Too many loose ends.

1. Is there a signature on that coup 'endorsement' I've seen Twitters that ask the same question.

2. Why is the Army driving Humvees and other military vehicles around Bangkok with loaded automatic fire weapons (with fully loaded machine gun belts) as clearly photographed by media? What are they expecting? See point three

3. Are they worried about a counter-coup? One can only wonder about all these soldiers with automatic weapons, including the rapid fire mini machine guns seen earlier.

4. Why have they positioned Army snipers at key locations?

5. Why are they (allegedly) sending goon squads into Red villages to steal from red villagers? Intimidation by the minority against the majority as a proactive move?

----------


## Yasojack

Maybe there worrying about something more serious than a counter coup that could well happen soon.

This coup is the coup of coups, this could be the end of something very close to the heart of many thais.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
>  blind justice, transparency, etc, forward
> 
> 
> it is not just thailand - the way forward for everywhere is hindered 
> 
> with 'tinternet uncontrolled by the lobbying sect there maybe a chance
> 
> ...


I appreciate many/most of your points. I support movement forward not backward, empowering the masses, not empowering the few. This junta is a big move, and it's not forward; we know the reason for it, not the corruption red herring, but the real reason, they are desperate and fearful that their end is nigh...

Certainly agree that our first world democracies are far from perfect...

----------


## Yasojack

So if you realise its a red herring why do you keep going on about democracy?

----------


## baldrick

> 2. Why is the Army driving Humvees and other military vehicles around Bangkok with loaded automatic fire weapons (with fully loaded machine gun belts)


rick thai clones - the elephants are neeky cnuts




> they


they are doing as ordered - and the indications seem to indicate the end is nigh

----------


## Bettyboo

^ yes. It just seems so ridiculous when folks on this thread are talking about the army doing the right thing for the people, stopping corruption, caring about the nation; they are interested in the wealth of the nation and controlling it, nothing else.




> not the corruption red herring,





> So if you realise its a red herring why do you keep going on about democracy?


?????

----------


## Yasojack

we know the reason for it, not the corruption red herring, but the real reason, they are desperate and fearful that their end is nigh  





> ^ yes. It just seems so ridiculous when folks on this thread are talking about the army doing the right thing for the people, stopping corruption, caring about the nation; they are interested in the wealth of the nation and controlling it, nothing else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> ...

----------


## terry57

[quote=Bettyboo;2789595

I don't support any side as such, Baldrick. 

Just the movement forward, slow or fast. Hence why a movement backwards is problematic.[/quote]



Urm Betty Dear,

I'm not getting on your case nor stalking you or anything like that but if you read your above post again you will fall over laughing.   :Smile: 

From the get go you have been painted red from head to toe and now you are posting up the above shite.  :Confused: 

How can we take your posts seriously Betty when you dither back and forth like a bottle on the ocean currents. 

We all know you're hard core Red so just stay with it and don't bullshit.

----------


## Bettyboo

^ I've never liked Thaksin, don't support him or his politics.

I do support elected governments, whatever party.

I also think that the reds have the moral high ground over the PADites because the PADites used a political judiciary, senate, NACC, EC and army to oust an elected government and are a minority group (remember, they tried out as a party and got a very low % of voters) forcing their will upon all of society and claiming to speak for all of society which they certainly do not.

----------


## terry57

^

Yes OK then we do get it Betty.

You love the Reds and despise the Yellows.

Fair enough. 

So don't try and gloss over it. Thats your opinion and fair enough innit.

Just don't expect all to agree with it.

----------


## Bettyboo

> despise the Yellows


You are correct in that statement, Terry, at least with regard to the organization and what it stands for (I have some friends who support it and go to the demos, and I'm sure there are many decent folks involved).

----------


## cyrille

> (I have some friends who support it and go to the demos, and I'm sure there are many decent folks involved).

----------


## Rural Surin

> ^ so, RS, the juntas rules and regulations are the same as under the Yinluck, abhisit, samak and Thaksin governments?


Simply...YES.

You [et al] need to awaken from your slumber.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Maybe nigh for another, but not who you think? That rumor has been around for at least a month..

----------


## Waid

> Maybe there worrying about something more serious than a counter coup that could well happen soon.
> 
> This coup is the coup of coups, this could be the end of something very close to the heart of many thais.


Why then - if beloved is truly beloved - the need for all the aggression, suppression & intrigue? For everyones own protection?

When newly beloved emerges, will all simply bow down and accept the most gracious saviour? Really? Who is anyone kidding?

A farce it is - a sad, tragic farce.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> Maybe there worrying about something more serious than a counter coup that could well happen soon.
> 
> This coup is the coup of coups, this could be the end of something very close to the heart of many thais.
> 
> 
> Why then - if beloved is truly beloved - the need for all the aggression, suppression & intrigue? For everyones own protection?
> ...


If that's a model we're using to project, we should expect the worst case scenario....it won't be pretty - certainly in the metro region.

Not out of the question of an attempted counter-coup, as a few have already touched upon - which might trigger other armed activities and independent insurgencies.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> Maybe there worrying about something more serious than a counter coup that could well happen soon.
> 
> This coup is the coup of coups, this could be the end of something very close to the heart of many thais.
> 
> 
> Why then - if beloved is truly beloved - the need for all the aggression, suppression & intrigue? For everyones own protection?
> ...


The goose and the swan will dance a tasty tango.

And the fox will tip his trilby, and sup of the deliquescence.

'Empire Day is the 24th of May' they will coo in unison.


Need I say more? I think you smell what i'm cooking.

----------


## Yasojack

have knew all along, sure with your mentality we should just nuke the country hey :Smile:

----------


## FloridaBorn

> I also think that the reds have the moral high ground over the PADites because the PADites used a political judiciary, senate, NACC, EC and army to oust an elected government and are a minority group (remember, they tried out as a party and got a very low % of voters) forcing their will upon all of society and claiming to speak for all of society which they certainly do not.


Oust 2 governments, shut down the airports, flood the country, the list is endless and still adding up, they have done more to wreck the Thai economy and international image then anything the opposition has ever done.

----------


## Waid

The problem with all the goings on is that the whole country eventually suffers.

I remember reading years ago of Thailand as an Asian Tiger. Came through on a business trip in 1997, in the middle of the Asian Crisis. Thailand's integrity dented, but not smashed.

Since then, Thailand seems to have tried to pull itself up by its bootstraps - with a healthy dose of assistance from its colleagues in Asia. Japan seems to have been very faithful.

In a recent book by Ruchir Sharma - Breakout Nations - Thailand was on schedule to potentially be a breakout nation, provided it could get its political act together and project stability. The other in the same class was Indonesia, oddly-enough.

This was why I initially began looking at the place seriously as a potential fabricator/exporter of personal projects of interest.

Where is Thailand now headed?

----------


## pickel

> I don't support any side as such


Quite possibly the most hypocritical statement ever made on TD.

----------


## wasabi

Sarm fingers.
555 
333 nue muer

----------


## MineFalls

Yesterday

"One of the Thai Army thugs dragging off elderly woman today was wearing PRESS credentials. "

https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/s...411521/photo/1




Video of her arrest. Starts around half way through clip. There will be no resistant to the Generals!

----------


## MineFalls

Here's a good one from Chiangmai

https://twitter.com/NonHang_Tiny/sta...626432/photo/1



Up in the northeast, the teenagers were spray painting odd words on the road when I was there, now they have a cause. Solution for General #1: Ban all paint :Smile:

----------


## FloridaBorn

He's got a fake mustache too and it looks it..

----------


## MineFalls

There were rounds in that M60 at Terminal 21.

https://twitter.com/steviegell

----------


## FloridaBorn

I guess that's not so surprising though is it?

----------


## MineFalls

"Be very careful when you stick three fingers above your head this can happen to you" https://twitter.com/Rajprasong_News

https://twitter.com/pupi1332/status/...231360/photo/1




Welcome to a Thai yellowshirt's wet dream. Zeig Hail!  F the junta and their scummy henchman!

----------


## FloridaBorn

Seems he's groping the old woman pretty well too.. Wonder if that's a large bruise in her mid back or what? Kinda looks like a tat but that's questionable.. What's with the pink taxi I thought they were more pro reds? Which, come to think of it, my last few years there seemed there were very few red taxi's around anymore? Did anyone else notice that?

----------


## MineFalls

Some of yesterday's protesters made their statements at temples believing they'd be a bit safer. Anyone know which temple this might be? I guess it's in Bangkok.

https://twitter.com/IceAngelTFN/stat...038785/photo/1

----------


## MineFalls

> Seems he's groping the old woman pretty well too.. But what's with the pink taxi I thought they were more pro reds? Which, come to think of it, my last few years there seemed there were very few red taxi's around anymore? Did anyone else notice that?


Probably true about there being less red taxis. The monied folks are the yellows. You'd probably have better luck going with the yellow.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> Seems he's groping the old woman pretty well too.. But what's with the pink taxi I thought they were more pro reds? Which, come to think of it, my last few years there seemed there were very few red taxi's around anymore? Did anyone else notice that?
> 
> 
> Probably true about there being less red taxis. The monied folks are the yellows. You'd probably have better luck going with the yellow.


Never used yellows. On rare occasions when I needed one, used red/blue or pink.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Seems he's groping the old woman pretty well too.. Wonder if that's a large bruise in her mid back or what? Kinda looks like a tat but that's questionable.. What's with the pink taxi I thought they were more pro reds? Which, come to think of it, my last few years there seemed there were very few red taxi's around anymore? Did anyone else notice that?


Old woman...??

...hmmm

----------


## Pragmatic

> Where is Thailand now headed?


September should give us some indication.  


> General Prayuth's term ends in September. If the next army  commander-in-chief is again appointed from officers who commanded the  2nd Infantry Division, it will indicate that the queen's influence on  the military remains strong. This would be bad news for Thaksin's  supporters, known as the "red shirts."


 Military may not be impartial player in Thai political turmoil- Nikkei Asian Review

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> Seems he's groping the old woman pretty well too.. Wonder if that's a large bruise in her mid back or what? Kinda looks like a tat but that's questionable.. What's with the pink taxi I thought they were more pro reds? Which, come to think of it, my last few years there seemed there were very few red taxi's around anymore? Did anyone else notice that?
> 
> 
> Old woman...??
> 
> ...hmmm


Never seen a young women with gray hair... Nor does her physic look youthful either and all the women with her in her defense are also elderly.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Rural Surin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> ...


We're obviously not viewing the same pic.

----------


## leemo

There's your solution, Betty, albeit temporary; peaceful resistance with the world watching. 

Ploplem is, military guys don't like peaceful resistance, it irks them, they are not trained or equipped for it, makes them look weak and impotent, and there are only so many thousands they can 'detain' before even the Somjai starts thinking for itself, so guess what...? Yep, they need to stir it with false flags. Expect that to kick off anytime soon. 

Ploplem is, nobody but the nice gentleman in charge of the country will know if those flags are false. But ploplem with that is, whether or not they are they will be marketed as such.

And so we revisit the ploplem that it isn't easy for regular people to know the truth, and as we learn from civilised regions everyone, even thugs, terrorists and armed bandits are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Aforementioned characters get away with much by invoking civilised codes. 

Ploplem is, civilised codes should be reserved for civilised people in civilised countries, because uncivilised people traditionally demand to be judged by those codes only when it suits them. And it's worth mentioning that people in civilised countries often fail to notice that civilised armies tend not to periodically mug their host nation.


From a TPV: couple of days ago >70 Thais were rounded up and 'detained' for peacefully getting on with their lives on Pattaya beach, after midnight. Fine 500 baht apiece, so that's >35k already heading for Prayuth's coffers. Might be a good idea for him to demonstrate his sincerity by kicking around the local BiB if <35k is deposited into his, ah, the national coffers.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Rural Surin
> ...


Ok, maybe not, don't see any with a young woman being forced into a taxi though?

----------


## Yasojack

good post leemo

ploplem is somjai starting thinking for itself over 9 yrs ago, and the sleeping gaint is only just really been awoken now, the new junta has suppressed them for the moment, give them time to re-group and we'll see a different Somjai

----------


## terry57

No point what so ever posting up pics of bullets is there.

Its a friggin Coup, troops tend to have live rounds in their guns don't they.  

What do you expect ?

For them to carry around guns with no bullets in them ????

Silly rhetoric raises its head once again. 

Could be like 2010 when they started shooting people then you will have something decent to post about. 

So they are arresting a few protesters who are getting silly, big friggin deal innit. 

Its nothing so far.

----------


## terry57

> The new junta has suppressed them for the moment, give them time to re-group and we'll see a different Somjai



Oh OK Jacky boy,  

So what do you really think will happen when Somjai grows a pair.?

Civil war, the Reds march into Bangkok for the final show down, Thailand implodes into madness and all the expats go live in Cambodia ??  

Come on Jacky, lets here it.

----------


## Yasojack

Terry read my posts you may see what i think.

Whatever anyone posts and its not to your way of thinking your going to TRY and ridicule anyway so whats the point your just doing your Trolling as per usual.

Ask yourself this if it happened in your own country would you have the same opinion,s times have moved forward the locals are more informed these days and they are gaining support from the outside now.

By the way read your own newspapers in your country a lot of the anti junta is coming from there.

----------


## terry57

^

Jacky Boy, I am not trolling merely pointing out that your speculation is just that.

Its speculation only and your posts are so predictable simply because you are painted Red also and lean towards the radical side. No balance there. 

Regards Australia and the rest of the world jumping up and down regards this Coup I suggest they should just fix their own shit up before worrying about something that is not their business and they can nothing about.

Further more one cannot compare Thai Politics with Australian or American politics as its a totally different ball game over here.

You know that so don't try and make it out that its not. 

You post as though Thailand is going to collapse and the people turn on each other.

I post that your thoughts are those of an emotional person who likes to guild the lily and talk things up.

Keep it real Jacky Boy.

----------


## Yasojack

Terry there's no difference between Thailand  and other countries, the elite are the elite and fuck everyone over.

The difference being that the other countries do it to other nations as they know they wouldn't get away with doing it to there own citizens.

----------


## Notnow

> No point what so ever posting up pics of bullets is there.
> 
> Its a friggin Coup, troops tend to have live rounds in their guns don't they.  
> 
> What do you expect ?
> 
> For them to carry around guns with no bullets in them ????
> 
> Silly rhetoric raises its head once again. 
> ...


I mostly agree. Things could be much worse. The difference being "It's nothing so far" is an insult to the unfortunate ones undergoing traditional Thai state interrigation. Ask them if it's nothing.

----------


## VocalNeal

I'm a bit slow here as I only just was told that key members of the Red Shirt movement are actually ex Communist Party of Thailand, so for sure they want election and democracy!!

Seems to me they are simply using Thaksin as a prop.

----------


## pseudolus

> The difference being that the other countries do it to other nations as they have already successfully done it to their own citizens, who usually are clueless to the fact, and still believe that they live in a democracy.


There you go - fixed that for you. Feel free to challenge that if you like, but it is futile to do so.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Yasojack

No challenge :Smile:

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

From the FT ....._'one combative movement leader known as “Rambo Isaan” has publicly renounced politics after being released from detention.'

_If true - quite pathetic. A tough guy only until the going got tough. Leaving the struggle to others.

----------


## Yasojack

Think i'd do the same in his position for the Time being.

Either that or get locked up for a long time.




> From the FT ....._'one combative movement leader known as Rambo Isaan has publicly renounced politics after being released from detention.'
> 
> _If true - quite pathetic. A tough guy only until the going got tough. Leaving the struggle to others.

----------


## Bettyboo

I wonder what kind or re-education these detentions offer? Perhaps a list of names and residencies of family members along with threats?

----------


## Storekeeper

> Originally Posted by Waid
> 
> Why is the Junta so sensitive about criticism? Thought soldiers were tough.
> 
> 
> All Thais are. Look at the anti American and Anti US ambassador bullshit going on right now... I have lost a few Thai friends in the last few days over this. There is a bit of North Korean brainwashing that occurs here believe you me.


You got that right bro'. Seeing that crap all over the net.

----------


## Yasojack

no re-education more being told step out of line and your a goner, sure we'll see the LM convictions spiral this time.

Great way to get rid of your enemies. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 






> I wonder what kind or re-education these detentions offer? Perhaps a list of names and residencies of family members along with threats?

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Think i'd do the same in his position for the Time being.
> 
> Either that or get locked up for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, but you're not going out there trading on a 'Rambo' image and making a living on that ideology. This guy was. 

Just some podgy old codger who burst into tears when he met with his Mum after he was released. Not really a hard man of the revolution at all.

----------


## pseudolus

> I wonder what kind or re-education these detentions offer? Perhaps a list of names and residencies of family members along with threats?


Apparently one of the subjects of the re-education is a few interesting surveillance videos with sound of a certain poisoned dwarf airing his real opinion of the rural folk within Thailand, using phrases such as Stupid, dumb, cattle etc and making it very clear that he couldn't give a flying toss about them. Apparently even the most die hard supporter of his view them and turn against him almost immediately.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> I wonder what kind or re-education these detentions offer? Perhaps a list of names and residencies of family members along with threats?
> 
> 
> Apparently one of the subjects of the re-education is a few interesting surveillance videos with sound of a certain poisoned dwarf airing his real opinion of the rural folk within Thailand, using phrases such as Stupid, dumb, cattle etc and making it very clear that he couldn't give a flying toss about them. Apparently even the most die hard supporter of his view them and turn against him almost immediately.


Do you work for ASTV?

Do you have any facts to offer or just propagandaesque speculation?

----------


## Butterfly

> From the FT ....._'one combative movement leader known as Rambo Isaan has publicly renounced politics after being released from detention.'
> 
> _If true - quite pathetic. A tough guy only until the going got tough. Leaving the struggle to others.


if that's true, then it's just another instance of tough talks but no actions by the usual suspects

they are incapable of fighting for a cause unless it involves money,

nothing to do with Democracy as expected, but Thaksin since he has all the money

----------


## Butterfly

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> I wonder what kind or re-education these detentions offer? Perhaps a list of names and residencies of family members along with threats?
> 
> 
> Apparently one of the subjects of the re-education is a few interesting surveillance videos with sound of a certain poisoned dwarf airing his real opinion of the rural folk within Thailand, using phrases such as Stupid, dumb, cattle etc and making it very clear that he couldn't give a flying toss about them. Apparently even the most die hard supporter of his view them and turn against him almost immediately.


not sure they would care as long as he is paying the bills,

I mean nobody denies that the Reds "supporters" are stupid, dumb and a bunch of cattle, if they weren't, they wouldn't sell their votes for 300 THB and show up at all those rallies for a few thousands. They are poor and desperate, and not too smart, and for that, they should be protected from manipulating leaders. They are as much a victim as everyone else.

----------


## terry57

> I mean nobody denies that the Reds "supporters" are a bunch of cattle, if they weren't, they wouldn't sell their votes for 300 THB and show up at all those rallies for a few thousands.



Look, this post is exactly why fair elections can not be held in Thailand at the moment.

Considering all the punters are getting payed off its not a true Democratic election is it. 


Exactly why the Yellows refuse to hold an Election. Its all bullshit when punters are getting payed. 

Fuk knows what the answer is to this problem but there's the problem right there.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> Exactly why the Yellows refuse to hold an Election. Its all bullshit when punters are getting payed. 
> 
> Fuk knows what the answer is to this problem but there's the problem right there.


Pretty easy ! 

A voter education programme that tells people their vote is secure and confidential. That they can vote for who they like and there is zero chance of anyone attributing the contents of the ballot box. 

So, you can't eradicate the payments - you just can't stop one person giving another person a banknote under the table - but you can render it an utterly meaningless procedure. Its a mug's game to pay someone for a job that you can't be sure they will fulfill. 

If someone gave me money to influence me in casting a secret ballot - I would take the money and vote for whomsoever I preferred.

----------


## Yasojack

Which is what happens but many of are junta loving members ignore this fact.

----------


## Bettyboo

*Thai army rulers prepare emergency economic measures*

..._Prajin says he has told the Finance Ministry to look at a complete overhaul of the tax structure and report to him next week.

The Nation newspaper said state enterprises including Thai Airways International Pcl and the State Railway of Thailand would put investment plans to Prajin on Monday and these would also be discussed with Prayuth this week.

In a televised address on Friday, Prayuth said the military would need time to reconcile Thailand's antagonistic political forces and push through reforms, indicating there would be no general election for 15 months at least._

Thai army rulers prepare emergency economic measures | Reuters

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> _
> 
> The Nation newspaper said state enterprises including Thai Airways International Pcl and the State Railway of Thailand would put investment plans to Prajin on Monday and these would also be discussed with Prayuth this week.
> _


It's time for business and commerce to pay up for the boys with the guns.

Either cash (kickbacks on government contracts awarded) or lucrative directorships  are both acceptable coin of the realm.

----------


## Yasojack

Pasan was the man in Dubai when Thaksin went there.

Sacking Thai ambassador in UK is a matter of appropriateness | Thai PBS English News

Sacking Thai ambassador in UK is a matter of appropriateness
in Politics | June 2, 2014
The Foreign Ministry said Monday the sacking of Thai ambassador to the United Kingdom Pasan Teparak was a matter of appropriateness and had nothing to do with relations of the two countries.
The Ministry spokesman Sek Wannamethee said the sacking of the ambassador was clarified at the meeting of the ministry’s permanent secretary Sihasak Puangketkaew and  representatives of the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany and Japan at Shangri La Singapore.

The meeting was intended to clarify the need of the National Council for Peace and Order to seize power and its roadmap to bring the country back to peace and order.

It also aimed at convincing countries which have cut military aids to Thailand and banned entries by the Thai military leaders to their countries to review their actions.

The spokesman said Mr Sihasak has said 39 countries and three international organisations have reacted to the military coup while Australia has voiced strongest opposition and lowered its military ties with Thailand. It also banned Thai junta leaders to enter the country.

He said Mr Sihasak has expressed regrets over the strong reaction to the NCPO by Australia.

He said after listening to the clarification, its representative said Australia would review its earlier stance.

The sacking of the Thai ambassador to London was also clarified at the meeting with explanation that the sacking was a matter of appropriateness.

A Thai diplomat Nattawat Krisnamar has been assigned to work in his place, the spokesman said.

Myanmar has voiced concern over the military coup as it might affect the Thai economy as now 62 countries have issued travel advisories for their citizens to Thailand, he added.

----------


## Butterfly

I am not sure an Army General is the best person to put in place for economic projects, above all without check and balance institutions in the process,

this is becoming a farce, between the comical reds cowards and the tough speaking army generals, almost theatrical

----------


## Yasojack

And the smokers they need the coffers stuffed to the brim.


High tobacco tax urged | Thai PBS English News




> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> _
> 
> The Nation newspaper said state enterprises including Thai Airways International Pcl and the State Railway of Thailand would put investment plans to Prajin on Monday and these would also be discussed with Prayuth this week.
> _
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Butterfly

> So, you can't eradicate the payments


what about this ? anyone selling their votes is banned for 10 years for voting fraud

win-win for everybody, even the Yellow, eventually the Dems will win an election

----------


## Butterfly

> Which is what happens but many of are junta loving members ignore this fact.


it's not done in secret, it's quite opened actually, and it gives the perception that they show up to the polling station just to get paid, so really what it means is that they don't care about their duty.

would they show up to the polling station if no cash was involved ? probably not.

----------


## pseudolus

> complete overhaul of the tax structure


And a good job too. I trust that this will see my tax bill reduced?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Butterfly

> at a complete overhaul of the tax structure and report to him next week.


the question of taxing land owners has been in the work for quite some time but never implemented. This could be it. They might go after a certain type of "bourgeoise" elite.

Hopefully they will also address the issue of the catastrophic administrative nightmare of the 30THB healthcare by offering a better alternative, or simply making it completely free.

The best way to destroy Thaksin legacy would be to "replace" his legacy with better alternatives.

----------


## Yasojack

starting to wonder if you have PDD-NOS :Smile: 





> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> Which is what happens but many of are junta loving members ignore this fact.
> 
> 
> it's not done in secret, it's quite opened actually, and it gives the perception that they show up to the polling station just to get paid, so really what it means is that they don't care about their duty.
> 
> would they show up to the polling station if no cash was involved ? probably not.

----------


## pseudolus

> The best way to destroy Thaksin legacy would be to "replace" his legacy with better alternatives.


Very true. One of the issues with paying the rice pledge money is that the farmers will assume it was coming anyway, as a number of the less erudite members in this thread like to believe as well.

----------


## Yasojack

the junta have already pledged 10,000 bht per tonne for the next crop, which does not really make the farmers that happy.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

Name dropping slightly, but I was acquainted with Sihasak once upon a time.

Nice, decent chap. Capable of serving a multitude of masters it seems of course - which one has to in that profession in order to survive. 




> Pasan was the man in Dubai when Thaksin went there.
> 
> Sacking Thai ambassador in UK is a matter of appropriateness | Thai PBS English News
> 
> Sacking Thai ambassador in UK is a matter of appropriateness
> in Politics | June 2, 2014
> The Foreign Ministry said Monday the sacking of Thai ambassador to the United Kingdom Pasan Teparak was a matter of appropriateness and had nothing to do with relations of the two countries.
> The Ministry spokesman Sek Wannamethee said the sacking of the ambassador was clarified at the meeting of the ministrys permanent secretary Sihasak Puangketkaew and  representatives of the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany and Japan at Shangri La Singapore.
> 
> ...

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> the junta have already pledged 10,000 bht per tonne for the next crop, which does not really make the farmers that happy.


But is probably a sensible price relative to the global price of rice.

----------


## Yasojack

Agree though now the farmers are have been plunged into further debt, and we could see something happen regarding this.

possible scenario is now the junta are back in land grabs, The BACC are surely going to kowtow now to the junta.

Multi nationals have being trying to get into the farming land for sometime now.

----------


## terry57

> Which is what happens but many of are junta loving members ignore this fact.



Another assumption on your part Jacky Boy. 

You make many assumptions but are short on actual facts. 

While punters are being payed for their vote the whole system is down the shitter.

Nothing is certain and democracy comes last. 

Hence why this Coup is no big deal as there was no Democracy to start of with as Thaksin had already secured the votes from the North by paying for them. 

It was only a matter of time before the Government fell. 

When Thailand can manage to secure a voting system where its people are not bought of then and only then can it be classed as a Democratic voting system. 

Don't hold your breath Jacky Boy.

----------


## aging one

> Agree though now the farmers are have been plunged into further debt, and we could see something happen regarding this.


They are being paid off at an inflated price. Why are they now in further debt, unless they did not manage their funds correctly? Oh wait....  The fact the are in further debt after being paid has nothing to do with any government. It has to do with some Issan farmers spending habits.

----------


## Yasojack

They were supposed to of been paid many months ago, but i won't repeat what been posted many times before.

The money not received means they don't have money at there disposal so have to go and  get more loans, to be able to survive.

As you may or not know when they get paid for there rice they then have to pay back the banks interest, and get further loans from the BACC.






> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> Agree though now the farmers are have been plunged into further debt, and we could see something happen regarding this.
> 
> 
> They are being paid off at an inflated price. Why are they now in further debt, unless they did not manage their funds correctly? Oh wait....  The fact the are in further debt after being paid has nothing to do with any government. It has to do with some Issan farmers spending habits.

----------


## terry57

> what about this ? anyone selling their votes is banned for 10 years for voting fraud.



Thailand's political system can never be reformed until they eradicate vote buying.

The trouble is that corruption and vote buying is so entrenched into Thai culture that the chances of cleaning the country of corruption will never happen.  

Thing is I do not want Thailand to operate like things do in the West as I like the chaotic madness of the place. 

If Thailand reformed its system and operated like Western countries all the fun and attraction would go out of it. 

Cant have everything EH.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Yasojack

Going to pass on your post terry as this has also been discussed many times before and its becomes monotonous.






> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> 
> Which is what happens but many of are junta loving members ignore this fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Another assumption on your part Jacky Boy. 
> ...

----------


## terry57

> Going to pass on your post terry as this has also been discussed many times before and its becomes monotonous.



So at the end of the day Jacky Boy the back and forth discussion whether the Reds are all bad or the Yellow are all bad is a pile of shit and not worthy of discussion is it.    

The only thing that any person can be sure of is that Thailand's system is so corrupt its beyond actually reforming. 

The corruption flows so deep that its here forever and deep down the vast majority of Thais accept it as being part of Thai culture. 

Right down to paying off the corrupt cops for traffic violations. 

Until the cops get payed real wages they will indulge in corruption, the system is on constant loop from the lowly cops to the highest politician.  

Hence  when you and others bang on regards the Reds being the only way to the future  you are so far away from the mark  you are fantasizing.  

You ignore the fact that the system is totally flawed and damaged beyond repair.

Nothing wrong with that,  this is why Expats love Thailand as its far from perfect. 

If I want perfect I will stay in Farang land, I choose not too. 

Rather love the madness of Thailand.    :spam2:

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
>  
> _The Nation newspaper said state enterprises including Thai Airways International Pcl and the State Railway of Thailand would put investment plans to Prajin on Monday and these would also be discussed with Prayuth this week._
> 
> 
> It's time for business and commerce to pay up for the boys with the guns.
> 
> Either cash (kickbacks on government contracts awarded) or lucrative directorships are both acceptable coin of the realm.


Appears that they plan to be running the show longer then some might be speculating upon....or creating immediate influence [and kickbacks] that will be a struggle to reverse - across the board.

----------


## Rural Surin

> the junta have already pledged 10,000 bht per tonne for the next crop, which does not really make the farmers that happy.


Stop growing rice [political tool] for the market.
Which is becoming quite the rousing fashion amongst many traditional rice farmers.

----------


## Waid

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> 
> 
> what about this ? anyone selling their votes is banned for 10 years for voting fraud.
> 
> 
> Thailand's political system can never be reformed until they eradicate vote buying.
> 
> The trouble is that corruption and vote buying is so entrenched into Thai culture that the chances of cleaning the country of corruption will never happen.


Anecdote: Some elections back - rural Isaan

Political fixer from party 1 offers THB200 for person's vote. Person agrees & takes the THB200.
Political fixer from party 2 offers THB300 for person's vote. Person agrees & takes the THB300.

Person votes for whoever she felt would serve her interests. Knows that neither fixers will ever know who she voted for.

These people are not the dumb ones, by any stretch of an uninformed westerner's imagination.

----------


## pickel

^
Offering them an unrealistically inflated price on rice, which can only end in disaster, is another version of vote buying.

----------


## Waid

^ Very true.

----------


## buriramboy

Pravit speaks out on detention: A ‘surreal’ week in the ‘Big Brother’ house

By Lisa Gardner

Pravit Rojanaphruk, a prominent journalist for The Nation newspaper, was released by the Thai military junta on Saturday after being detained for almost one week. He described his six days in detention as “surreal,” a means of “psychological warfare” designed to gather information from him and other detainees.

Pravit turned himself in to the junta on Sunday May 25, three days after Thailand’s military took control of the country in a coup d’etat. Before reporting to the military Pravit made a statement to reporters, declaring that “they can detain me, but they can never detain my conscience.”

Speaking just two days after his release, Pravit told Asian Correspondent Monday: “I’m fine, though it’s been a lot of stress. I’m handling it. I know many people were worried. Lots of people are still being summoned.”

Of his outspoken press statements prior to the beginning of his incarceration, he said, “it was deliberate. I am very well aware that it would provoke the ire of the military junta, but I think someone had to make a stand – to make a statement – so I decided to use the opportunity to inform the public both in Thailand and abroad that we are really facing a severe curtailing of freedom of expression – both in censorship, and self censorship.”

“I entered with Khun Anon (his lawyer) and two people from OHCHR [Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights], both wearing UN light blue jackets. When I entered the entrance of the old conference room of the Thai Army – which is a nice room – they were prevented from following me, and that’s when we got separated,” said Pravit.

“They took away my mobile phone. They searched for possible weapons. I was the first to arrive on that day of the detainees. We had to wait there for about four hours. Nobody told us when we could leave.”

At dusk, vans arrived.

“Then we were taken away to another location, an army camp in Ratchaburi province. We knew the name of the camp after we arrived, but prior to that we were put in a van with fully-armed soldiers. There was a pick-up van in front of us with at least five or six soldiers with what I reckon to be an M16 on each of them. The two vans which we were put inside moved very quickly…  It took us about an hour and a half before we got there. But we spent those hours wondering whether we would be released. I think that was really the first taste of psychological warfare.”

Among the detainees were two former Deputy Prime Ministers, a former Cabinet minister, journalists, a well-known real estate developer and Yingluck Shinawatra’s own lawyer.

“I was so surprised,” said Pravit. “Some [detainees] were already wearing military sports t-shirts with the insignia of the army… I was taken aback by the visual adjustment they had already made.”

The conditions inside were comfortable and the detainees were treated with respect.

“The cordial treatment that they gave us was beyond expectation,” he said. “But I think that was part of the psychology of the whole thing.”

“They put us up in a two-story Thai townhouse with some amenities,” Pravit added. “I think we have to be clear that the treatment was super nice. The Commander greeted us as we set out from the van in the evening, referring to us as ‘older brothers’. He told us to feel at home and to think of it as some kind of out-of-town vacation, of sorts.”

Despite the comfortable setting, clear rules were soon outlined.

“We were told that we would not be able to use phones. There were two phones available – we could use them as we wished – but we would need to give out the number and someone would be standing next to us while we took calls, to eavesdrop.”

The detainees were also free to leave the house and walk around the camp, but always in the company of soldiers.

“The commander of the camp…  and his five deputies … spent most of the time talking to us, sharing breakfast, lunch and dinner with us, and informally chit-chatting.”

Some detainees were unnerved by these friendly exchanges, which Pravit describes as “partly psychological warfare.”

“Most people kept wondering how long they would be kept in the camp and we really had no clue,” he said. “The truth of the matter is there was no habeas corpus. Since we were under martial law we knew they could make up a law to keep us there. None of us were charged, or heard any charges. They kept us there and psychologically it had some effect.”

He added: “But the reality is that most of us criticized the military junta and the coup even while in detention. That includes myself. I had a lot of honest exchanges as to why the coup will not be helpful for Thailand and Thai democracy in the long run, why shutting down streets to prevent protestors from gathering would only make matters worse.”

Of the hundreds of people detained by the military junta since the coup, Pravit felt that his group was likely among the best treated. The detainees were also told that reports were being sent to Bangkok on a daily basis on what they said and did.

“The commander was a close subordinate of the Army Chief, Gen. Prayuth Chan-Ocha. He has a direct line to the boss, which means our group was treated well,” said Pravit.

“I would argue that our group was treated differently. Many of those reporting [to the junta] have been dispatched to different camps in Central and Northeastern Thailand and my hunch is that the treatment we received was probably the best, judging on what we heard about those in other camps.”

Surprisingly, Pravit would spend some time conversing with the former leader of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (aka Yellow Shirts), Sondhi Limthongkul. The men had never before met.

“It was surreal. Everything was surreal,” he said. “It struck me that we were kind of in this ‘Big Brother’ reality show the entire time.

“I think that it tested everyone’s mettle, being there. Some people crack. Some people cry, some people beg.”

When asked whether the military thought this an information gathering exercise, Pravit responded: “Yes! Yes! Absolutely!”

“I was surprised that one of the generals, who I think was assigned as my man-handler, asked out of the blue: ‘Does [foreign correspondent’s name omitted] have a Thai wife?’, ‘Is [foreign photographer’s name omitted] married to a Thai?’ It means that they have done their homework. He was not reading from the script – he remembered them, by name. He asked about [academic’s name omitted] and whether he had been contacting me, as well as his whereabouts.”

Although Pravit’s ordeal ended more than two days ago, he is still not entirely free of the junta.

“I could write a short book about the whole thing,” he said. “But there’s a tragic note, something very disturbing. Less than 26 hours after my being released, I received a phone call from someone who identified himself as a corporal… He asked if I could stop tweeting. That the junta needed time, free from criticism.

“I already signed a few things, forcibly agreeing not to lead a protest, not to aid the protestors, or not to take part in political meetings. I tried to placate him, saying that if I don’t tweet people will conclude that it’s the junta and there would be a backlash that won’t be helpful (for them). I said I wouldn’t rock the boat very roughly but I would go on criticizing the junta – just as some Thai newspapers are, at least in a gentle, scolding way. He said okay, we’ll see… A few minutes later, another corporal called me – one from the camp… He said to save his number in my phone. He was asked to give all my details to Central Command and that some would be monitoring me and following me. “

Pravit Rojanaphruk was scheduled to speak at Foreign Correspondent’s Club of Thailand in Bangkok tomorrow. The event has since been cancelled.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/123388...nta-detention/

----------


## Rural Surin

> Agree though now the farmers are have been plunged into further debt, and we could see something happen regarding this.
> 
> possible scenario is now the junta are back in land grabs, The BACC are surely going to kowtow now to the junta.
> 
> Multi nationals have being trying to get into the farming land for sometime now.


Over the years, Thai farmers have basically written their own ticket to their failures: becoming [sometimes forcibly] dependent on the govt, aggie mafias, unnecessary loans/credit - instead of standing firm collectively, forced to play the game.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Pravit speaks out on detention: A surreal week in the Big Brother house
> 
> By Lisa Gardner
> 
> Pravit Rojanaphruk, a prominent journalist for The Nation newspaper, was released by the Thai military junta on Saturday after being detained for almost one week. He described his six days in detention as surreal, a means of psychological warfare designed to gather information from him and other detainees.
> 
> Pravit turned himself in to the junta on Sunday May 25, three days after Thailands military took control of the country in a coup detat. Before reporting to the military Pravit made a statement to reporters, declaring that they can detain me, but they can never detain my conscience.
> 
> Speaking just two days after his release, Pravit told Asian Correspondent Monday: Im fine, though its been a lot of stress. Im handling it. I know many people were worried. Lots of people are still being summoned.
> ...


Nice post, BB!
Rather revealing.... ::chitown::

----------


## pickel

> ‘Does [foreign correspondent’s name omitted] have a Thai wife?’, ‘Is [foreign photographer’s name omitted] married to a Thai?’


Jonathan Head and Nick Nostitz would be my guess.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by buriramboy
> 
> Does [foreign correspondents name omitted] have a Thai wife?, Is [foreign photographers name omitted] married to a Thai?
> 
> 
> Jonathan Head and Nick Nostitz would be my guess.


Known enemies of the Thai state........military or civilian rulers.

----------


## Yasojack

RS so which one is it dependent on govt or forcibly dependent,so just how do they stand collectively?

And with many people around the world they live beyond there means but because there country people there stupid now are they.?

will you answer this one or will you give it a wide birth.




> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> Agree though now the farmers are have been plunged into further debt, and we could see something happen regarding this.
> 
> possible scenario is now the junta are back in land grabs, The BACC are surely going to kowtow now to the junta.
> 
> Multi nationals have being trying to get into the farming land for sometime now.
> 
> ...

----------


## Rural Surin

> RS so which one is it dependent on govt or forcibly dependent,so just how do they stand collectively?
> 
> And with many people around the world they live beyond there means but because there country people there stupid now are they.?
> 
> will you answer this one or will you give it a wide birth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I'm attempting to point out, Jacky....is the plight of suppression upon the dominate Thai agricultural sector - control and lessened freedoms from an elected civilian, less a military junta. They're all in the same mix - govt, mafias, middle-men, aggie corps, farming "banks", etc. 

They all exist to keep the greater farming community from being independent.
Disallowing the hard-working farmer-folk from doing business as they fit.

I'd be curious to ask, Jacky - do you have a clue at all about Farming/Aggie affairs here? 
Or it's history....

----------


## Rural Surin

I'm totally perplexed as to why many don't have the ability to see that any suppressive entity here in Thailand is one and the same......

Thick as a brick.

----------


## Yasojack

here's some interesting points about whats been going on.

taken from a blog.


The 7 Most Stupid Comments About The Current Protests In Thailand
by heavilyarmedsovietspacemonkey

It’s a widespread fallacy to assume that every mass protest is automatically progressive or democratic. The current protests in Thailand are a good example for that. What we can see in Thailand right now is the latest attempt of one political camp, the so-called yellow shirts, which mostly consists of Bangkok’s upper and middle class, to overthrow a democratically elected government in a political conflict, which goes on since the military coup in 2006 against then prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Despite the fact that the yellow shirts couldn’t win a single election since the coup, while Thaksin-backed parties have received and continue to receive overwhelming support from the rural poor, sympathies among westerners for the yellow shirts seem to be quite persistent. That’s why you won’t be able to avoid reading a lot of nonsense, uninformed statements and sometimes even outright lies as soon as you bother to read the internet discussions on this topic. In this blog post I intend to show the anti-democratic nature of the current anti-government protests by refuting the 7 most stupid comments I’ve come across. Because I don’t want to attack anyone personally, I’ll paraphrase the comments instead of citing actual examples.

I probably should add that when I speak of stupid comments, I’m just speaking about the comment itself. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the author of such comments is stupid as well. Everybody, including me, says stupid things sometimes, because he or she doesn’t know it better. So if you recognize some of the paraphrased comments as your own, please, don’t take it too personal. Besides, if after reading this blog post you’re still not convinced that the comments in question are as stupid as I claim, then you’re welcome to express your criticism in the comment section.


1. The current protests in Thailand are an example of the people revolting against an authoritarian government.

As I’ve mentioned above, the red shirts have won every single election since the military coup in 2006 (which have been hold in 2007 and 2011), the yellow shirts have only been able to seize power by a military or judicial coup. And when the yellow shirts were in power, they’ve used nothing short of brutal force to oppress demonstrations of the democracy movement. During the military crackdown of the protests in 2010 79 civilians have lost their life, most of them protesting red shirts. But even more importantly, the yellow shirts are this time openly calling for a new dictatorship and the final disenfranchisement of the rural majority:

>>The demonstrators want to replace Yingluck’s popularly elected government with an unelected “people’s council,” but they have been vague about what that means. Because Yingluck’s party has overwhelming electoral support from the country’s rural majority, which benefited from Thaksin’s populist programs, the protesters want to change the country’s political system to a less democratic one where the educated and well-connected would have a greater say than directly elected lawmakers.<<

They’re not demanding new elections, because they know that they would most likely lose such elections just as they’ve lost the two elections before. Their protest isn’t about achieving or protecting democracy but quite the opposite. They despise real democracy just as much as they despise the poor farmer, who dares to want to have a say about his country’s future.

2. The current protests are about oustering the corrupt elements In Thai policy.

As I’ve already explained in point No. 1, these protests are not about forcing the current government to resign in order to make new elections possible but to replace it with an unelected council, which only consists of Bangkok elites and yellow shirts. Furthermore, one of the main leaders of the protests, Suthep Thaugsuban, doesn’t really have a clean slate himself. These people are not protesting corruption inside the democratic system but democracy itself.

Some might insist that the Thai democracy isn’t well-functioning, because corrupt politicians like Thaksin are still popular despite their misconduct and therefore a temporary dictatorship would be necessary and justified to cleanse Thai policy from corruption before democracy can be re-established. Although such statement is much more honest (but still utterly naive), it is also inherently anti-democratic. Even if we assume that Thaksin and his sister, the current PM, are really as corrupt as portrayed by the opposition, this still wouldn’t change the fact that the current government has been democratically elected and is still supported by the majority of Thais. A corrupt democracy is still preferable to an allegedly clean dictatorship (though I seriously doubt that something like this could exist), because, corrupt or not, a government, which hasn’t been elected by the people, or, in an even worse case, has also replaced a democratically elected government by a coup, has no legitimacy at all. As a democrat (not the party) I just can’t and won’t follow you in this line of thought.

3. The current government has no legitimacy because it has only won the last elections by buying votes. / The red shirts protesting (against the yellow shirts) in Bangkok have been paid to do so by Thaksin and his cronies.

As far as I know, there is no proof at all for massive vote-buying by the red shirt camp during the last election or the election before. And as matter of fact, every time somebody in a discussion makes such claim, he’s not likely to going to substantiate his allegations with actual facts but is instead going to pretend that this is some accepted truth. An argument, which comes often along with this one, is that the red shirts are not showing their support for the government because of their own conviction but because they have been paid by Thaksin and his cronies. The original source for this claim seems to be a speech, which Thaksin has given through a video phone in 2009. A translation for the part of the speech in question has been provided by Jotman in his blog:

>>If (they) return democracy to the people, and return a democratic constitution (to the people), then whoever is in the government, I’m ready to give advice. But if you people want me back to do the job, then I’m ready to serve you. I’m ready to work hard at the age of sixty. And you don’t need to go to queue up for 500 baht. Brother and sister, those people who use to receive the edible fruits of democracy during the Thai Rak Thai administration when I was prime minister[...]<<

If we can trust the quality of this translation, then this doesn’t really seem convincing regarding the allegations made by Thaksin’s opponents. To be frank, this part of the speech does seem to lack some serious context in order to understand what Thaksin has actually said here. And as matter of fact, some people point out, that it is more likely that Thaksin is actually referring to a social assistance plan for the senior citizens:

>>People will interpret the statement differently, but to BP he was referring to the government assistance programs particularly in light of the very long queues for the 2,000 baht handout. There is a separate 500 baht assistance plan for the elderly too.<<

Furthermore, can the passion shown by the red shirts in their struggle for democracy really be explained satisfactorily by the theory that they just have been paid to protest? Remember, people have died in their uprising against the dictatorship in 2010.  If you seriously and impartially think about this, you can’t help to realize the absurdity of such allegations.

In my opinion, these allegations seem to be a manifestation of the contempt of Bangkok’s upper and middle class for the rural masses, who are still loyal to Thaksin until this day. Because what they’re actually saying with such allegations is that the red shirts, the poor farmers from the northern part of country, do not have the sufficient political maturity to vote. For them the typical red shirt just lacks the necessary education and responsibility and is, therefore, unfit to have a say in the democratic process. That’s class prejudice par excellence.

4. The current conflict in Thai policy is not one about rich vs. poor.

Yes, Thaksin and most of his allies in Thai policy can hardly be called social revolutionaries and it is obvious that they do represent one group of Thailand’s elites, which just wants to break the dominance of Bangkok’s old guard. But even knowing this you can’t get around the fact that the red shirts mostly consist of the rural masses from northern Thailand (and, if we can believe Wikipedia here, even of urban lower classes from Bangkok) and that they and their support alone are the reason why Thaksin is still relevant in Thai policy until today, while their opponents, who want to overthrow the current government, represent Bangkok’s upper and middle class. If you dismiss the idea of the current conflict as a class conflict, because you think that Thaksin is just using the rural masses to gain his own personal and selfish goals, then you are just blatantly ignoring that the reason for Thaksin’s popularity were his policies to support the poor and rural majority of Thais, as for example making health care more affordable and supporting farmers with small loans. The military coup against Thaksin in 2006 as well as the judicial coup in 2008 were insofar acts of a class war against the rural poor as their decision expressed in democratic elections has been disregarded and, therefore, a whole class of Thailand’s population has been disenfranchised. In other words: The rural poor have been excluded from Thailand’s political system in order to enforce the interests of a by comparison wealthy minority. Furthermore, the yellow shirts can only hope to hold on to power after another coup, if they succeed in disenfranchising the rural class permanently.

Ironically, at least some anti-government protestors are much more honest about this aspect of the current political conflict than their apologists:

>>Many anti-government protesters draw a distinction between themselves and the poor who are fiercely loyal to Thaksin.

“We are rich and our children are educated in Bangkok,” said Nonthapan Suwananon, an anti-government protestor who manages an office. “They are poor, uneducated and have been bought out by Thaksin and his lot.”<<

5. The red shirts are just as violent/much more violent than the yellow shirts.

This argument is basically trying to justify or relativize the violent tactics of the current protests, wich are aiming to destabilize the political situation in order to trigger another military coup, as well as to vilify the pro-government red shirts. In order to justify such claims people usually refer to the red shirts protests in 2010, when the violent clashes between the army and protestors have caused a lot of destruction in Bangkok’s inner city. This is quite cynical considering that most of the victims of these clashes were actually protesting red shirts, as I’ve already mentioned in point No. 1. It is also worth mentioning that the military crackdown has been authorized by none other than Suthep Thaugsuban, the main leader of the current protests, who was deputy prime minister back then. Moreover, violence by protesting red shirts in 2010 and anti-government protesters now is hardly comparable, because there is a huge difference between violence used in order to overthrow a dictatorship and to re-establish democracy and violence used in order to overthrow a democratically elected government and to install a dictatorship instead.

This, of course, doesn’t apply to the tragic events of last Saturday, when allegedly four students have been shot in a clash between red shirts and anti-government protestors, though it should be said that these clashes have been started by yellow shirts attacking buses and cars with red shirt protestors inside.

6. The current protest movement and the yellow shirts from anti-government protests before are not identical.

Although it is true that protestors in Bangkok seem to wear mostly black shirts (when I use the term “yellow shirts” I refer to the political camp as such regardless of the changes in its current dress code), if you look at the photos of the protests thoroughly you will see that they still use a lot of the colour yellow to identify themselves (as for example here). Furthermore, the current protest movement has the same goals, the same leaders and the same contempt for the rural masses as the yellow shirts before. They actually seem to be pretty much identical and as long as I don’t see anything what sets the current protest movement apart from the yellow shirts I don’t see why we shouldn’t assume that this is still the very same political camp, which is attacking Thai democracy since 2006.

7. The unelected “people’s council”, which the anti-government protesters want to install, wouldn’t be a dictatorship, because it would be only an interim government.

A temporary dictatorship is still a dictatorship. Period. Besides, as I’ve said in point No. 4, the yellow shirts can only hope to hold on to power after a coup if they disenfranchise the rural population permanently.

----------


## BaitongBoy

> Considering all the punters are getting payed off its not a true Democratic election is it.   
> Exactly why the Yellows refuse to hold an Election. Its all bullshit when punters are getting payed.


Does anybody here know which group supposedly has more money to burn?

Since people here still wish to use this old "vote-buying BS" as a "reason" for one side winning an election... The yellow group, as far as I know, is supported or run by the "elite" or rich...Therefore, they should easily have much more access to money...

So, they should be able to pay out more money and win an election...Ergo, this is not the reason, nor will it ever be the reason, the yellows lose an election...

----------


## Yasojack

spot on baitong, but the dems say they not pay money, read the blog above the guy goes into the vote buying a little.

----------


## Rural Surin

Such false divisions have been manufactured, for and by them.

Seems to be a great success.

----------


## Waid

> Such false divisions have been manufactured, for and by them.
> 
> Seems to be a great success.


Divide and conquer?

----------


## BaitongBoy

> but the dems say they not pay money


That is something they will always lie about, while smiling of course...I remember when Yingluck won the election...A few of us knew exactly the houses where the cash was stored, and exactly when it would hit the streets...

It was exciting...And it was yellow money...And it went to all the "little red people" who gleefully voted red and openly laughed at the scam...

As we should, too...Because it should never be brought up as making a difference in an election in Thailand...And yet people keep harping on about it...

----------


## Yasojack

Korat

Korat’s UDD and PDRC jointly vow to work for reconciliation
in Politics | June 2, 2014	


Leading members of the People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) and the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) in Nakhon Ratchasima have jointly vowed to break down their colour-coded political barrier for the sake of national reconciliation.
The unprecedented get-together of the two political rival groups in Nakhon Ratchasima was made possible with the mediation of Maj-Gen Chaiyaporn Rattapaet, head of the reconciliation centre based at the second region’s office of the Internal Security Operations Command.

The two groups were present together in front of the monument of Thao Suranaree or Ya Mo, a historical heroine, to make a vow to strive for reconciliation in order to restore peace to the country. Among those present were Mr Anuwat Thinnaraj, UDD chairman of the northeastern chapter, Mr Sompote Prasartthai, UDD chairman of Nakhon Ratchasima’s Muang district, Mr Sampart Atthawong, former Pheu Thai MP and younger brother of Suporn, aka Isan Rambo.

The PDRC was represented by Mr Chakkarin Cherdchai, PDRC chief in Nakhon Ratchasima, PDRC spokeswoman Ms Jureeporn Prapapittayapong and two coordinators, Somchai Likhitwornsiri and Supote Piriyakiatsakul.

A detachment of police and army troops was on hand to ensure order and to witness the event.

Maj-Gen Chaiyaporn said that similar get-together of the two rival groups would be held in the other northeastern provinces.

Mr Anuwat said that the UDD was willing to cooperate with the military as it wanted to see the country move forward and the political divide bridged.

----------


## Yasojack

nah i bow to your superior intelligence and knowledge about everything. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

As i'm sure does the rest of the forum.





> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> RS so which one is it dependent on govt or forcibly dependent,so just how do they stand collectively?
> 
> And with many people around the world they live beyond there means but because there country people there stupid now are they.?
> 
> will you answer this one or will you give it a wide birth.
> 
> ...

----------


## Waid

> Korat
> 
> Korat’s UDD and PDRC jointly vow to work for reconciliation
> in Politics | June 2, 2014    
> 
> 
> Leading members of the People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) and the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) in Nakhon Ratchasima have jointly vowed to break down their colour-coded political barrier for the sake of national reconciliation.
> The unprecedented get-together of the two political rival groups in Nakhon Ratchasima was made possible with the mediation of Maj-Gen Chaiyaporn Rattapaet, head of the reconciliation centre based at the second region’s office of the Internal Security Operations Command.
> 
> ...


What gets avowed arch-enemies to begin voluntarily working together - under military assistance?

What makes an Isaan Rambo into a crying puppy after a few days of detention?

More to all this than meets the eye? What?

----------


## Yasojack

possibly what they say and what they mean are two different things.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> Korat
> 
> Korats UDD and PDRC jointly vow to work for reconciliation
> in Politics | June 2, 2014 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems as the propaganda tools are in place and continue...
Consider the source in which stories such as this comes from.

It is a selected and subjective item.
And then remember that most [certainly the poster] can't decipher the difference from sources of subliminal propaganda and alternative independent info.

Classic. Just need to repeat these things often enough and it becomes so true.

----------


## Yasojack

perhaps the poster just posts news for all to see so members can interpret in whatever way they want.





> Originally Posted by Waid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Yasojack
> ...

----------


## MineFalls

Two university girls now summoned for this. 

https://twitter.com/lostbookcafe/sta...325120/photo/1



And some westerners who support the military think these girls should be  detained? These warped westerners should go fuck off! Westerners who support this coup  and these bullshit arrests have fucking mental disease.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Two university girls now summoned for this.


Yeah, but only to tell them how buff they are and a light spanking  :Smile:

----------


## MineFalls

Very Good, ASs. Don't forget your meds.

*
Countries whose leader assumed power via a coup:

Thailand
 Uganda 
 Burkina
 Sudan
 Chad 
 Gambia 
 Congo
 E.Guinea
 Guinea Bissau
 Egypt 
 Oman
 Fiji
 Mauritania

Coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*
Must make that special Thai family proud to be in this group but they don't really give a fuck about democracy anyways, right. Never have never will.

----------


## MineFalls

Watch it while you can. Just the latest Vice clip. 6min  Released May 31

Unrest and Opposition Over Military Rule- Thailand on the Brink (Dispatch 4) - Video Dailymotion

----------


## KEVIN2008

> here's some interesting points about whats been going on.
> 
> taken from a blog.
> 
> 
> The 7 Most Stupid Comments About The Current Protests In Thailand
> by heavilyarmedsovietspacemonkey
> 
> Its a widespread fallacy to assume that every mass protest is automatically progressive or democratic. The current protests in Thailand are a good example for that. What we can see in Thailand right now is the latest attempt of one political camp, the so-called yellow shirts, which mostly consists of Bangkoks upper and middle class, to overthrow a democratically elected government in a political conflict, which goes on since the military coup in 2006 against then prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. Despite the fact that the yellow shirts couldnt win a single election since the coup, while Thaksin-backed parties have received and continue to receive overwhelming support from the rural poor, sympathies among westerners for the yellow shirts seem to be quite persistent. Thats why you wont be able to avoid reading a lot of nonsense, uninformed statements and sometimes even outright lies as soon as you bother to read the internet discussions on this topic. In this blog post I intend to show the anti-democratic nature of the current anti-government protests by refuting the 7 most stupid comments Ive come across. Because I dont want to attack anyone personally, Ill paraphrase the comments instead of citing actual examples.
> ...


*Excellent analysis....describes the situation correctly.*

----------


## Mr Lick

Complete and utter garbage in my opinion.

I made an error in reading past his/hers first response where it was stated that the Red shirts had won every election since the last coup.

Either the person has never set foot in Thailand or resides in a resort with a serious drinking problem. 'Heavily armed soviet space monkey' indeed.

----------


## MineFalls

Yaso's post about the "7 most stupid commnets..." is old. Try December 3rd last year. It's talking about the protests at that time, not the current protests against the Coup.

Here's the link...

The 7 Most Stupid Comments About The Current Protests In Thailand | the shittiness of things

Published: December 3, 2013

----------


## Yasojack

Mr lick he said Thaksin backed parties, in which he is correct.

----------


## MineFalls

*Air bookings to Thailand plunge after coup, data shows | Reuters*

(Reuters) -  Airline bookings to Thailand have collapsed, a travel association said  on Sunday, after the military took over the government on May 22,  hitting the tourism sector that accounts for 10 percent of the economy.

 The coup followed months of  protests that weakened the government of Prime Minister Yingluck  Shinawatra, forced ministries to close for weeks on end, hurt business  confidence and caused the economy to shrink.

On  May 19, there were around 28,000 inbound bookings for Thailand a day,  according to sample figures from the Pacific Asia Travel Association  (PATA), seen by Reuters. But on May 23, the daily tally was 5,000  cancellations. 

Even before the  military stepped in, the Tourism Authority of Thailand had cut its  forecast for foreign arrivals this year to a five-year low of 26.3  million as political unrest deterred visitors.

The  figures on the drop in airline bookings were being circulated at a  global meeting of airlines in Doha, where industry executives are  worried about the impact of political instability in Thailand and  Ukraine on wider travel demand.

Short-haul  bookings from countries such as China, where people typically book  travel a few weeks in advance, have been hit especially hard, Martin  Craigs, chief executive of PATA, told Reuters. Bookings from long-haul  travellers were not down as much because they tend to book further in  advance, he said. 

Craigs said  tourism bosses had spoken to the Thai military to highlight that the  sector was central to the economy and to call for a repeal of the  nationwide curfew, currently in place from midnight to 4 am.

----------


## MineFalls

The soldiers seem to like the resistance.

----------


## Yasojack

Still relevant  today except divisions are more transparent.




> Yaso's post about the "7 most stupid commnets..." is old. Try December 3rd last year. It's talking about the protests at that time, not the current protests against the Coup.
> 
> Here's the link...
> 
> The 7 Most Stupid Comments About The Current Protests In Thailand | the shittiness of things
> 
> Published: December 3, 2013

----------


## MineFalls

There are hundreds of these pics on twitter. A lot of people don't have the freedom to make statements as they are threatened by those who run their companies or government institution. They couldn't say anything even before the coup happened. I guess it could be the same for the others who worked in a anti-Dem organization. It takes something to do this without fear especially if the spies of Big Brother are gathering names and taking people away some who have yet to be seen again.

----------


## Mr Lick

Mr lick he said Thaksin backed parties, in which he is correct



Heavilyarmedsovietspacemonkey - ''As I’ve mentioned above, the red shirts have won every single election since the military coup in 2006'' 



I didn't realise The Red Shirts were a political party up for election.



I'm afraid this is also proof of either a singular viewpoint or a passion for binge drinking


''As far as I know, there is no proof at all for massive vote-buying by the red shirt camp during the last election or the election before''

----------


## Yasojack

In reference to the Video

 whats of greater interest the protesters are now not your usual isaan support base.

----------


## Yasojack

So if he would of used yelow shirts for the dems would he off been correct.?   Semantics




> Mr lick he said Thaksin backed parties, in which he is correct
> 
> 
> 
> Heavilyarmedsovietspacemonkey - ''As I’ve mentioned above, the red shirts have won every single election since the military coup in 2006'' 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realise The Red Shirts were a political party up for election.
> ...

----------


## Yasojack

sure there'll be missed, bad move by junta

Thai badminton team withdraws from tournaments in US and Australia | Thai PBS English News

Thai badminton team withdraws from tournaments in US and Australia
in General | June 3, 2014
A Thai badminton team has decided to opt out of two tournaments in the United States and Australia as a gesture of protest against the two countries’ interference in Thai domestic affairs.
The decision was announced on Monday by Mr Jane Piyatat, president of Granular badminton club.

The Granular team is to contest in the Australian Open badminton tournament  scheduled on June 24-29 and the Yonex US Open tournament during July 8-13.

Mr Jane cited safety reason for his team’s withdrawal from the two tournaments after the US and Australian governments decided to downgrade relationship with the Thai military and banned Thai military officers from visiting their countries.

(photo : https://www.facebook.com/BadmintonGranular)

----------


## terry57

Quite fair enough to pull the team.


I do feel sorry for the athletes who spend endless hours practicing to have it all destroyed by stupid politics.

Once again Australia and America should just STFU and butt out of Thai Politics.

Not their problem.

----------


## Sumbitch

CNN and BBC are back on the air, at least here in CM on True Visions.

----------


## MineFalls

Some clips...

----------


## MineFalls



----------


## leemo

> Quite fair enough to pull the team.
> 
> 
> I do feel sorry for the athletes who spend endless hours practicing to have it all destroyed by stupid politics.
> 
> Once again Australia and America should just STFU and butt out of Thai Politics.
> 
> Not their problem.


ditto, let them do their thing, Thailand always bounces back.

----------


## Butterfly

> Complete and utter garbage in my opinion.


absolutely, coming from another red farang Thaiophile

----------


## Butterfly

even though the coup is an annoying thing, the alternative wasn't great either

elections with bought out votes and silly policies wasn't the path to reconciliation and a future united Thailand

Of course the Dems completely failed in their role, but at the end to be expected when each side has been polarized by some silly authoritarian leader out of Dubai.

Hopefully, taking the Dubai man out of the picture by destroying his legacy will be the beginning of reconciliation.

----------


## Norton

No it won't Butters. Thaksin out isn't going to change a thing. Corruption will prevail. Vote buying will continue by all parties if they deem the expense necessary. 

None of the anti gov rhetoric is the issue. Thaksin, corruption, mismanagement et al are simply bumper sticker lines to justify removal of an elected majority who a minority fear will make the head of the nation irrelevant.

A march of folly by the desperate.

----------


## terry57

^  ^

You have thrown a lot of stuff together in that post.

Much of it is not relevant to Thailand's present situation but Its your Opinion.

Fair enough.  Don't quite agree though.

----------


## Norton

Was't much. Only took a couple minutes.  :Smile:

----------


## terry57

> Thaksin out isn't going to change a thing. 
> 
> Corruption will prevail.   Vote buying will continue by all parties if they deem the expense necessary.



This is much more to the point and accurate.

----------


## Yasojack

Seem to remember Norton you said there wouldn't be a coup.

You could be right, but the fight is on.

----------


## Butterfly

having a polarizing figure, may it be Thaksin or someone else, in a third world politics environment is always a recipe for disaster for the public

the issue is the polarizing figure, period. Why you ask ? because they will bring to the table our fundamental differences over everything as a tool to exploit others and consolidate his power. Thaksin is the source of the problem, but at the same time, he is not. He is simply the element that is exploiting division among the people for political gains.

Thai have a certain culture, that can be annoying, but at the same time, that culture has been there for centuries. Those differences were there before Thaksin came into power, but they were only exploited once he feared he lost his power. Where was the speech on Democracy and political liberation in 2001 when he was catering to the Bangkok bourgeoisie and middle class by promising to be a "strong" leader that will fully exploit his rights under the flawed 1997 constitution ?

at the end, it's a question of characters, because ideas and principles have no meanings unless they are expressed vigorously by individuals that are true believers of those principles and do not have "hidden" agendas. Thaksin, as a leader, is not such an individual, therefore his presence is just noises and meaningless for the future, and therefore he must be removed from the political landscape so other leaders with real principles and a less divisive nature can prevail. As long as we have the Thaksin noises, there can't be no political progress. He must be removed completely, and for that to happen, a bullet will be needed.

----------


## terry57

^ ^

Not much of a fight going on Jacky, the Junta seem to have things well under control 
with very little violence kicking off.

Hope it stays that way.

A handful of Punters been Arrested, nothing compared to past Coups.

----------


## Butterfly

> They know that the BKK scum look down on them and they really do. I see it right here in the BKK area and hear it from the yellow hiso's of Bangkok's mouths. They are truly arrogant fooks. I also know westerners who've beat the shit out of other westerners who've looked down on them. Thais put up with the shit of the hisos but that won't last forever.


you do realize that this issue has nothing to do with Democracy ? it's a cultural issue, creating division for political gains is hardly going to solve the problem, isn't it ? unless you want to go Mao style, by putting the bourgeoisie and the elite in the fields and execute them. As you can see, that plan is a bit flawed at the end. A new elite will rise eventually. It's a never ending cycle. The solution is for them to learn to live together and to respect each other, even if they think otherwise. That's what make the differences between savage tribes and educated civilized people.

----------


## Yasojack

jeez just remove thaksin and all is hunky dory. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Norton

Yes I did Yaso. So I got it wrong. Prediction based on the need for a coup. No need. Ying and her gov gone. This coup was not needed. Why it happened is a matter of conjecture.

So what's your prediction? Come on now. Don't be shy.

----------


## Yasojack

Early days Terry




> ^ ^
> 
> Not much of a fight going on Jacky, the Junta seem to have things well under control 
> with very little violence kicking off.
> 
> Hope it stays that way.
> 
> A handful of Punters been Arrested, nothing compared to past Coups.

----------


## Yasojack

Nothing at all to do with you being wrong or scoring points just the Un-predictable ways of Thailand.

What we think we know,is a guess by us all.

My prediction is most probably wrong like the rest of us.

Can only live and hope. :Smile: 




> Yes I did. So I got it wrong. Prediction based on the need for a coup. No need. Ying and her gov gone. This coup was not needed. Why it happened is a matter of conjecture.
> 
> So what's your prediction? Come on now. Don't be shy.

----------


## terry57

> As long as we have the Thaksin noises, there can't be no political progress.
> 
>  He must be removed completely, and for that to happen, a bullet will be needed.



Strong view there Butters. 

That would be a game changer,  it would be game on with quite a few big players getting assassinated in return.

The Thais may be do not want this scenario as they know it could spiral out of control.  

No, Not a top idea to Cap Thaksin or any body at this stage not saying it won't happen mind you.

----------


## Butterfly

> Yes I did Yaso. So I got it wrong. Prediction based on the need for a coup. No need. Ying and her gov gone. This coup was not needed. Why it happened is a matter of conjecture.
> 
> So what's your prediction? Come on now. Don't be shy.


don't think it was needed either, hence the real reason behind it not being disclosed. Also very well prepared, the Yellows and the stubborn of Y and PT gave them a perfect excuse to stage it, much better than waiting for fresh elections and then staging it.

----------


## Yasojack

^ sounding like reuters

----------


## Butterfly

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> 
> 
> As long as we have the Thaksin noises, there can't be no political progress.
> 
>  He must be removed completely, and for that to happen, a bullet will be needed.
> 
> 
> ...


it won't spiral out of control, it's the usual BS of "activists" and "believers"

look at the coup, they all went home crying to their mothers. Thais are cowards by nature, like most people are (even the tough talking Americans).

Taking Thaksin out of the picture is the only solution eventually. The guys is a hyena, does Thailand really needs another hyena in its political landscape ? one gone might not be enough but is still one gone, so it's progress right there.

----------


## aging one

> look at the coup, they all went home crying to their mothers. Thais are cowards by nature, like most people are (even the tough talking Americans).


So who are the brave butters??

----------


## terry57

> It won't spiral out of control, it's the usual BS of "activists" and "believers"
> 
> Taking Thaksin out of the picture is the only solution eventually. 
> 
> One gone might not be enough but is still one gone, so it's progress right there.



Well,   Most people don't take too kindly to having the person they support assassinated. 

The Natural reaction is to hit back at the opposing side by capping one of theirs in
return or maybe kill two for good luck.

Thais ain't shy when it comes to killing so I say it would be a bad scene if Thaksin or anyone gets hit.

It will really step the game up.   

Just my take on it.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Yes I did Yaso. So I got it wrong. Prediction based on the need for a coup. No need. Ying and her gov gone. This coup was not needed. Why it happened is a matter of conjecture.


The coup was always gonna happen, Norts, the head backer of the PAD/army, is in big big trouble if the lad takes over, and he's not the only one; not only is the massive wealth gonna be lost but likely his (and others of his ilk) life... It really is an all or nothing game for the PADite backers - they control the head sections of the army, but it was always gonna come down to how much of the army they could control... There will be massive, I mean like never before, corruption to placate the various generals as well as paying off the likes of suthep and the dems, other, that have made it possible - it's gonna be hugely expensive, and Thais/Thailand will suffer. The only way they can make it happen is to go nigh on Myanmaresque...

It's a very dangerous game indeed, and I can't see the junta/PADite backers winning it - their 'power' now is just so very tenuous...

As this junta is forced to go more and more extreme, as their discourse is highlighted as false time after time, I suspect they will be removed and things will ramp down, but the major issue sill hasn't been addressed and cannot be addressed in a way that's acceptable to all sides hence the current junta and their backers will lose - that has always been the case, but they were too high and mighty to understand it...

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

> The coup was always gonna happen, .


Well, you certainly weren't saying that a month ago ! 

And, ...who is the head backer of the army? I'm sufficiently out of it to not be able to solve the crypto-clue. As far as I was aware, one candidate has alzheimers and the other is at death's door.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> look at the coup, they all went home crying to their mothers. Thais are cowards by nature, like most people are (even the tough talking Americans).
> 
> 
> So who are the brave butters??


He must mean the Belgians.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Well, you certainly weren't saying that a month ago !


Untrue.

I have being saying that all along. It is the only course of action, as long as the QGs can control enough of the army to get away with it. I doubt they can, but they will be trying their hardest too...

We are talking about massive wealth here, Moog - thinks about Thaksins x 10 or x 100, and not having to pay tax, disclose earnings, disclose company info, etc... That kinda of wealth would  be one of the greatest in the world, and it's not even visible...

----------


## Yasojack

Moog try Michael David selby search

----------


## Yasojack

if you have a proxy server you can get to the better info

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> 
> 
> It won't spiral out of control, it's the usual BS of "activists" and "believers"
> 
> Taking Thaksin out of the picture is the only solution eventually. 
> 
> One gone might not be enough but is still one gone, so it's progress right there.
> ...


Wouldn't like to guess if he's better (or worse) for Thailand as a dead martyr or a living clarion call, but for sure our glorious leaders would happily sacrifice a couple of their own in exchange for his scalp. Neither his legacy nor his following can be subdued while he breathes. 

That said, and as you point out, nasty things can happen if they assassinate him, or if he falls down some stairs or gets struck by lightning. And Thai leaders don't have much of a reputation for considering the consequences of their actions.

----------


## The Ghost Of The Moog

Thanks for links etc.

----------


## jamescollister

Things hotting up here on the border [Lao] when it started, border troops, back to barracks, normal road blocks left up manned.
Now road blocks, with soldiers [Thai army] not local border guys, jungle villages  getting visited by troops, houses/huts searched for weapons, many local lads still up in the jungle.

Things still peaceful, but tension is rising, local nutter got beat half to death at a check point. 

Normally hear gun fire, hunting, but not a shot now, armies not winning hearts and minds.
It's only started, takes time to organize and if the people feel persecuted they will fight back. 

Dark days ahead if it starts. Jim

----------


## Rural Surin

> ^ ^
> 
> You have thrown a lot of stuff together in that post.
> 
> Much of it is not relevant to Thailand's present situation but Its your Opinion.
> 
> Fair enough. Don't quite agree though.


Actually, Tel - everything in Norty's short and precise post is quite relevant to present events. And reasonably spot on!

Don't have to be much of an observer of the last few years to have gathered the puzzle - connecting the dots.

----------


## pseudolus

> AS Jack suggests, if you haven't read this then you really are not informed about the reasons behind the PAD and junta...
> 
> The Crowning Fortune - Forbes


Indeed - and the globalists with their shill Thaksin want it. They want it all. And they had a nice little plan in place to get it as well..... until the army stepped in...

----------


## Rural Surin

> Yes I did Yaso. So I got it wrong. Prediction based on the need for a coup. No need. Ying and her gov gone. This coup was not needed. Why it happened is a matter of conjecture.


Not that you need your past conclusions and commentary defended, Norton.
But I believe you were of a stronger [and logical] camp that suggested there certainly wasn't a need for a coup/not an intelligent action for those pulling the strings.....less suggesting a coup would not occur.

I too, was of the same circle. Even with the surface talk and whatnot.

Though, this one is different from memory.
There is a strange presence about this latest turn of events.

----------


## Bettyboo

> There is a strange presence about this latest turn of events.


A strange presence,

a strange desperation,

a strange "newness"

a strange feeling that they cannot control everything, cannot control time, cannot control discourse any longer...

----------


## terry57

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> 
> ^ ^
> 
> You have thrown a lot of stuff together in that post.
> 
> Much of it is not relevant to Thailand's present situation but Its your Opinion.
> 
> ...



Urm , 

If you go back up Jeff you will see that I agreed with Norton and was commenting on the post above his.

----------


## Bettyboo

> If you go back up Jeff you will see that I agreed with Norton and was commenting on the post above his.


Norton is a pretty good poster, mate - maybe that's our middle ground???  :Smile:

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> If you go back up Jeff you will see that I agreed with Norton and was commenting on the post above his.
> 
> 
> Norton is a pretty good poster, mate - maybe that's our middle ground???


This place could use a good dose of Norton types [Sabang, et al].....they're around still just don't have much too add as they once did.

----------


## Yasojack

Army, Police Successfully Neutralize Blank Sheet Of A4 Paper

2 Jun 2014
RAJPRASONG – A large-scale, coordinated military and police effort was credited on Sunday with the successful containment and suppression of a single blank sheet of A4 copy paper.
The paper, which measured 8.5 by 11 inches, was apprehended  by soldiers at the corner of Phayathai and Rathawithi roads in the Victory Monument area of Bangkok at 3:47pm on Sunday, and subsequently charged with sedition and violation of orders from the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO).
“We are pleased with the results of our peacekeeping operations,” said NCPO head General Prayuth Chan-Ocha. “This sheet of paper needed to be stopped, and our forces did their duty.”
Over 1000 armed men were able to contain a rogue A4 paper. Inset: The offending blank sheet.  
Over 1000 armed men were able to contain a rogue A4 paper. Inset: The offending blank sheet.
Rumors of the possible illegal assembly of blank pieces of paper spread on social media over the weekend, leading up to the massive response by army troops and police brigades. As of 10am Sunday, no fewer than 600 soldiers and 450 riot-armed policemen, supported by 50 vehicles, were present at key locations throughout the capital, including Victory Monument, Democracy Monument, Rajprasong, Lumpini Park, and a dozen large shopping malls.
Statements on Thai television by the NCPO had specifically banned the gathering of more than 5 sheets of blank A4 paper, and threatened lengthy jail terms for any paper bearing messages that were contradictory to national unity.
By 1pm, no paper had showed up at the monitored protest sites, leading to a reduction in security forces and the re-opening of key streets in the areas.
However, at approximately 3:45pm, a person standing in front of Ratchawithi Hospital held up a blank sheet of paper in front of soldiers and reporters, in a symbolic protest against the coup and military rule. The paper was quickly surrounded, subdued, and taken away in a police van.
Photographs of the paper indicated that it was blank, white, and probably from a ream of standard 70-gram photocopy/laser printer office paper. Its brand was not immediately identified.
A statement from police said only that the paper was being examined, questioned, and would be released or charged in accordance with the law. A later comment from the NCPO indicated that the sheet would be tried in martial court for violating army orders and inciting disorder.
Human Rights Watch has issued a statement condemning the arrest and demanding that the A4 sheet is permitted legal representation, and declaring that the current Thai environment violates “ the fundamental rights of paper, printed or blank.”
Social media in Thailand has been divided on the issue, with anti-coup netizens calling for a massive show of blank paper at flash mobs throughout the city on Tuesday, while supporters of the coup have called for the paper to be cut in half, or even shredded. Many claimed that the sheet of paper was of foreign origin.
Blank sheets of paper threaten Thailand's order online and in the streets. 
Blank sheets of paper threaten Thailand’s order online and in the streets.
One group on Facebook calling itself the Thai Patriots Network Under The King even went so far as to call for a blanket boycott of  all paper in A4 size, suggesting that “True Thais should only use A3 or A5 in their offices and homes, and make sure that it is pre-printed with statements that support our sacred institutions.”
According to social commentator Sulak Sivaraska, the hostility towards blank sheets of paper is not surprising given the current political and cultural environment.
“Blank paper is, in many ways, more threatening to the conservative Thai than one printed with an aggressive statement,” he said. “The creative possibilities inherent in a blank paper, its invitation to think, wonder, and imagine without constraints or pre-conditions, is anathema to the ruling mythologies of forced unity.”
“One could say that any paper that doesn’t have some logo on it, corporate or cultural, causes dissonance to the Thai mind,” he added.
The NCPO remains firm in its position that it acted in the interest of national security, stating in a press release that “The massive deployment of armed troops is entirely necessary to subdue this kind of counter-patriotic aggression.”
“While we are working towards a future environment where all kinds of paper and paper products are welcome, the roadmap to this environment requires a temporary zero-paper policy.”





Not the Nation » Army, Police Successfully Neutralize Blank Sheet Of A4 Paper

----------


## MineFalls

"Amnesty International WILL NOT campaign against Thai junta repression because their regional HQ and staff are in Bangkok." @andrewspooner

You gotta wonder about the choices people are making with so much invested here in different forms.

----------


## Butterfly

> Well, Most people don't take too kindly to having the person they support assassinated.


well, if we are to believe the Red and Democracy activists, it has nothing to do with Thaksin, so killing him won't have any impact, at least if we are to believe our Reds heroes.

----------


## Butterfly

again, what's wrong with killing a known tyrant in the name of Democracy ? I didn't agree with Iraq illegal invasion and Libya illegal bombing but was glad to see 2 tyrants gone in the process.

if anything from the coup could be positive, it will be the physical removal of Thaksin once and for all. The peasants will just need to find another a leader to represent their interests. 

Thai Democracy at work.

----------


## Yasojack

Seems your the only one that thinks he's a tyrant no google search says he's a tyrant :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Butterfly

> Seems you the only one that thinks he's a tyrant no google search says he's a tyrant


were you there between 2001 and 2004 before he turned to the peasant for help ?

----------


## robuzo

Double post, sorry

----------


## Butterfly

Thaksin between 2001 and 2005 proceeded with the followings:

- intimidation and censure of the press
- intimidation of political opponents
- intimidation of court judges
- interference in judicial procedures for his own personal benefit or those of his associates
- setting an example to use the LM laws as early as 2002 for his personal benefits, with many to copy him on this afterwards
- created the conflict in the deep South after years of peace
- murdered several activists with the help of the police
- War on drugs
- Abused the provisions of the 1997 Constitution
- Positioned family members in strategic military posts

----------


## Yasojack

go on i know you wish to inform us, yes i was here between those years 





> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> Seems you the only one that thinks he's a tyrant no google search says he's a tyrant
> 
> 
> were you there between 2001 and 2004 before he turned to the peasant for help ?

----------


## Butterfly

> Not "nothing to do with Thaksin" but rather everything to do with Thaksin's apparent consolidation of power through his formation of an alliance with an even greater power. I am willing to accept that in at least some cases the anti-Thaksin forces are adamant in their attacks on voter enfranchisement, "corruption," and "republicanism" because those are the things they are permitted to attack, while they must remain mute about what really terrifies them. That fear is understandable if not entirely justifiable IMO (except for certain people near the top of the food chain and their underlings).


very well put I must say,

----------


## Yasojack

so please find a article that states he is a tyrant.

not your interpretation.




> Thaksin between 2001 and 2005 proceeded with the followings:
> 
> - intimidation and censure of the press
> - intimidation of political opponents
> - intimidation of court judges
> - interference in judicial procedures for his own personal benefit or those of his associates
> - created the conflict in the deep South after years of peace
> - murdered several activists with the help of the police
> - War on drugs
> ...

----------


## Butterfly

> Sooner or later Thailand is going to have face its problems, but instead of maturely facing issues the measures taken by the junta represent more attempts at infantilization of the populace. They may succeed in the short term but it will be a setback for Thailand. The elites are like parents insisting that their kid never grow up, which in most cases ends up in the creation of a monster.


again, a very valid point. Those discussions should be opened, not censured. The Thai military is simply scared of the answers after years of this dividing conflict, which brought a lot of valid questions on the table.

----------


## robuzo

Both sides "buy votes" either directly or by encouraging their constituents to vote according to perceived self-interest. One side has a bigger base but one side (the Dems) has a better shot at chipping away at the other's base. No way in hell the south is going to vote Thaksin.

The problem lies elsewhere, and as much as it disgusts me to hear otherwise thoughtful people (in some cases) speak of how the buffalo are too damned stupid to have the vote in the end we are, as are the Thais, mostly just talking past each other.

----------


## Butterfly

> so please find a article that states he is a tyrant.


do you actually need an article for you to make up your mind on a situation ? independent thinking ? ever heard of it ? if it walks like a duck etc... it's a duck.

I think there was a few articles that called him a tyrant, and the foreign journalists got their work Visa expired overnight when the article was released. How is that for free press under Thaksin ?

----------


## Yasojack

OK define Tyrant

----------


## Butterfly

> The problem lies elsewhere, and as much as it disgusts me to hear otherwise thoughtful people (in some cases) speak of how the buffalo are too damned stupid to have the vote in the end we are, as are the Thais, mostly just talking past each other.


exactly my point, the dividing nature of the conflict is based on cultural perception of the other party for simply creating cahos. Are they dumb peasants ? sure they are, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be respected or integrated with the rest of the population, their role in society is also critical. Are the Bangkok elite a bunch of nasty racist fools with a fascist tendency ? you bet, and yet, they are part of the landscape and they have a role in Thailand, at least in economic terms.

No matter what, each side can't escape their flaws, so they will have to learn how to live with those, or just kill each other like primitive tribes do for no real reasons.

----------


## cyrille

> OK define Tyrant


Aimed at Buttsy?

Seriously?

----------


## Butterfly

> OK define Tyrant


a political leader that will intimidate his opponents using whatever means necessary, through physical violence and, or institutional means (judicial, legislative, executive)

I can't believe you don't even know what a tyrant is in this discussion about Democracy and Military Coup

----------


## Butterfly

> The elites are like parents insisting that their kid never grow up, which in most cases ends up in the creation of a monster


coming back to what you say here, I think this is really the nail on the head. Aren't we witnessing already this monster ? look at quickly how the Thais can be polarized and turned into terrorizing monsters when they don't get "immediately" what they want (see May 2010 as an example).

I think the Thais are already turning into monsters, thinking they are doing the right thing, but neither side is right. Some call it "awakening", I call it raging hormones in teenagers. What do you do with teenagers with horns ? you ground them to their room and let them masturbate all day, for their own protection.

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## robuzo

I was thinking more along the lines of a monster on the order of Franco, Mussolini, Peron or Phibun. Phibun codified the naturally vague notion of "Thainess," laying the groundwork for future brainwashing and the ascendancy of conformity over thinking. Conformity in the form of (choose your favorite example of groupthink, insert here) often works quite nicely as an alternative to maturity, personal responsibility and independent thought. It is the enemy of compromise and the acceptance of the notion that you might be wrong, which are critical to democracy.

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## Yasojack

http://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpr...up-and-courts/

Coup and courts
3
06
2014
As we usually do, PPT is posting this story from the Asian Human Rights Commission/Asian Legal Resource Centre. We have a problem with their headline. It is not correct to say that the coup has led to the courts being jettisoned. For example,  while military courts have been made dominant, the Criminal Court is still operating and hearing lese majeste cases.

The courts and the so-called independent institutions may be subordinate, but they were kept. There’s something in that.

THAILAND: Coup Jettisons Courts

ALRC-CWS-26-08-2014
June 3, 2014

HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL
Twenty sixth session, Agenda Item 3, General Debates

A written submission to the UN Human Rights Council by the Asian Legal Resource Centre

In Thailand, the legitimate and democratically elected government of Thailand has been overthrown and the military has usurped power by force. The takeover is a clear and complete violation of the constitution of Thailand. Enormous efforts had been made by the Thai people to develop a democratic constitution. The 1997 constitution was created after years of consultation with all sections of Thai society. One of the preoccupations at the time was to end the entrenched practice of the military overthrowing legitimate governments and taking power. Previously, in Thailand, there had been 18 military coups over a period of 81 years. Thwarting efforts and disappointing expectations, the military has taken over power again.

Among the many problems that this takeover by the military has thrown up are the place and the role of courts in Thailand today. Recently, the constitutional court of Thailand forced the resignation of the Prime Minister on the ground that she had violated the constitution in dismissing a particular official. What will the constitutional court do now that the whole constitution has been violated by the military? Will the constitutional court of Thailand declare that the military coup is illegal and therefore the military has no mandate and power to rule? Or has the constitutional council itself been brought to a halt?

The Human Rights Council of the United Nations needs to declare that the military coup is illegal and unconstitutional and violative of all liberal democratic principles. The council must demand that power be handed over to the legitimate government and that changes to the government should be brought about via democratic process enshrined in the constitution. The Human rights council must step in to protect the sovereignty of the Thai parliament and the independence of the judiciary.

Shortly after usurping power, the military made several declarations. It was declared that those who oppose the military would be brought to trial before military courts. Several offenses were also declared and the military arrested many persons and continues to arrest others. It is expected that there will be large-scale arrests of political leaders, political activists, and civil society activists. In this manner, the military has attributed to itself the powers of arrest, displacing the country’s policing system.

All criminal justice principles and procedures have been abandoned and thus the very functioning of the criminal justice framework of the country has been paralysed. What is now taking place by way of arrests, detentions, and proposed trials before military courts is not the criminal justice framework as envisaged by the constitution but the operation of an alien and illegal system introduced by the military.

Among other things, the military has also declared that it will prosecute persons who campaigned against the operation of lese majeste and that the trials against persons arrested for such campaigns will also be brought before the military courts. Thus, the military has taken over the roles of complainant, investigator, prosecutor, judge, and executioner. Even the family of a prisoner, serving a sentence related to the lese majeste law, has been served with summons to appear before the military.

The net result is that the role of the judiciary in Thailand has been brought to a grinding halt. The people of Thailand no longer enjoy the protection of any of their rights, including the right to be adjudicated by legitimate courts that observe the principles and practices of fair trial.

The Human Rights Council needs to give due consideration to the fact that this coup is a violation of all the principles on which United Nations’ charter is based. The sovereignty of the nation, to be exercised by a legitimately elected government, has been completely undone. The people’s right for protection of human rights, in terms of United Nations conventions to which the Thai government is a party, are all being completely and blatantly violated. This extraordinary situation, in which a people of a country have lost the capacity to resort to their own courts for the protection of their rights, needs to receive the highest consideration from the council. The council needs to come to the rescue of democracy in Thailand. It must intervene to stop all trials by the military courts, and reinstate peoples’ right to have all matters of legality and illegality be determined by their legitimate courts.

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## Yasojack

THAILAND: AHRC condemns coup with launch of new webpage

THAILAND: AHRC condemns coup with launch of new webpage


(Hong Kong, June 3, 2014) The Asian Human Rights Commission on Tuesday launched a new webpage in response to the military coup in Thailand of May 22.

The webpage contains links to the Hong Kong-based regional human rights organisation’s commentary and appeals concerning the coup, in English and Thai, as well documents related to the coup and links to external sites.



The AHRC executive director, Bijo Francis, said that the group condemned the coup in the strongest possible terms.

“This military takeover is a massive setback for human rights in Thailand, a manoeuvre that is aimed at pulling the country back to a human rights stone age, when the military could do literally anything in the name of protecting national security,” Francis said on the launch of the page.

“But in 2014, people in the country aren’t going to take it, and nor are we,” he added.

“The AHRC will speak strongly, loudly and consistently against this military takeover and its ramifications, as it did in 2006,” he remarked.

During the last military coup in Thailand, during 2006, the AHRC was one of a small number of groups who recognised the implications of the takeover, and issued repeated warnings about its consequences. A collection of statements in response to that coup can be found here: http://thailand.ahrchk.net/docs/AHRC..._Coup_2006.pdf

Whereas the coup leaders in 2006 succeeded in engaging in a propaganda event whereby they cast themselves as vanquishers of an evil government, their troops complete with smiling faces, flowers and yellow ribbons, their successors in 2014 have abandoned such pretences.

The stream of announcements and actions following the coup has targeted people in civil society whom the military think will be critical of them. People called to report themselves include journalists, human rights defenders, and academics.

“We especially condemn the blatant threats made to human rights defenders and civil society in Thailand by this new military government,” Francis said.

“Quite obviously they are not going against people who threats to public safety or national security but people whom they consider to be their enemies,” he observed.

“We urge members of human rights groups and civil society organisations around the world to show their support through public actions, fund raising, and where necessary, assistance for people who have been forced to leave Thailand temporarily because of the coup,” Francis concluded.

The coup leader, army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha, has recently said that it would be at least a year before he is willing to hand power back to a civilian government, a situation that the AHRC director described as “intolerable and completely unacceptable”.

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## Yasojack

heres something from asian correspondent will post thai version also for any who read thai the translation is somewhat mish mash

http://asiancorrespondent.com/123408...troy-thailand/

Naew Na columnist exposes Western superpower plot to destroy Thailand
By Bangkok Pundit Jun 03, 2014 5:00PM UTC


Today, in Naew Na, A right-Wing, Conservative, and nationalist Paper * there is A. Column by Sirianya? ** (EX-Spook Prasong Soonsiri, Former AP Journalist. Suthin , Current Korn Aide Phasanoch Hautavanija, PAD and PDRC speaker Anchalee as. well as others from the PDRC stage are some of their other columnists) entitled “Homeland” (homeland). Below is a translation (not 100%, but almost complete as need to remove some repetitive parts and a few lines that are difficult to translate):.

All Thais must prepare to cope with the Syrian model (Thailand noncompetitive dealing “Syria models”).

At The End of The least Week,. there were protests by The agitators or as commonly known Peace Ghosts, Who refer to Democracy in Opposing The Coup, but do Not oppose terrorism, do Not oppose Corruption of The Country, do Not oppose destroying Thailand and. which are part of destroying the country in a new form or [which is] known as the Syria Model (late last week with a reunion of The Politico, also known as the ghost of peace. Quote democracy Anti-takeover But not against terrorism No anti-cheat a town house. Not undermine Thailand’s anti- And part of breaking in a new country. Also known as the serial model).

BP : Reading Too much of Tony C (or Vice versa?)?

NOTE: Have tried to strictly translate to follow the terminology and phrasing used by the author ….

Column continues:

The PDRC LED The People, those Who love The Nation, to protest continuously for 7 months. They were The Most People ever to protest in Bangkok in History. and they totaled 6 Million People,. but there were no Foreign Media Who Came in Numbers to Report. the news. What they reported to foreign countries was to speak ill by saying that the people asked for dictatorship (a DEA. brought a patriotic rally continued for up to seven months having joined the demonstrations in Bangkok. Most historians to 6 million people, but no “foreign correspondent” paraded make sense. The news is also accused some foreign matter how bad. People claim the dictator).

But when there are 30-50 and no more than 300 protesters, there are hundreds of them who claim they are reporters from various foreign countries and report negatively on Thailand (but not the spirit of democracy rallies 30 people 50 people not more than 300. Hundreds of people flock back I was a reporter for the countries to make the news. Negative news reports on Thailand). [They] create false A Mental Image that Hundreds of Thousands and Millions of Engels are opposed to The. Military, Who Came in to Salvage The Situatio. n (create a new image that false statements. Thailand thousands of millions of people against the soldiers who salvage the situation).

[I] want to say that the country has honor, the Phra Siam Devadhiraj [Siam's guardian angel] is real. The wicked, evil plan that wants to destroy Thailand and remove the monarchy and to make Thailand a dominion [colony] has been exposed. (I told you This sacred land The Open University has a real angel Siam. The sinister plans of the evil that wants to destroy the country. Toppled the monarchy Occupied a settlement was caught).

Those who were educated in the Middle East and America have investigated and found the wicked, evil plot and said to fellow Thais that the western superpower have thought up wicked, evil plan for Thailand to destroy Thailand and to occupy Thailand like it has occupied Iraq,. Libya, and Ukraine (the Thailand graduating from countries in the Middle East, Thailand and the United States. Has detected sinister plans of this evil. I tell people to get to know Thailand with Western powers are thinking sinister evil with Thailand. Thailand needs a break And occupied countries that invaded Iraq, Libya and Ukraine ago).

BP : Ukraine? Really drinking Putin’s kool-aid it seems. Western superpower is of course the US. The US is occupying Ukraine?

Column continues:

But what they are doing in Syria has not succeeded because the Shanghai Cooperation Organization have exposed and fully obstructed it (but they are doing in Syria is not successful. Because of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, has unmasked interrupt at full power).

BP : btw,  Shanghai Cooperation Organization  is A Eurasian political, Economic and Military Organisation consisting of China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan. A bunch of freedom-fighting countries if ever there was ….

Column continues:

From the information from two sources, namely Thais who were were educated to a high level in the Middle and East and Thais who studied in the US, who came to the same conclusion. What is the Syria Model? It is very interesting. It is. a serious threat and Thais and the world need to thoroughly and really understand it (from a news source is a group of two people, Thailand’s higher education in many countries in the Middle East. Ethnicity in the United States, Thailand A conclusion was that “the Syrian model,” which is what is interesting. And is a serious threat to the people of Thailand, the country and the world to understand the concepts).

So that we can unite and oppose the wicked, evil plan and so we will not become a tool of this wicked, evil plan as our Thai forefathers have preserved the country and handed down to the current generation (the unity solidarity against plans bouts. this evil generation And did not become a tool of the sinister plans of this evil. Thailand has maintained the typical ancestral home to the city fallen to our generation now).

The Syria Model plan can be concluded for easy understanding as the following (Action Plan “Syria” models like this can be easily understood).

First Step: agitate through The Networks they have established including through Universities and in Rural Areas Who have Received Financial support from Foreign countries and Set up bring Down The Monarchy Campaign,. A Campaign for Democracy which makes [Thailand] A Slave of Foreign countries, and. a campaign against development of the country so that these networks will oppose soldiers and agitate for conflict to arise (the first step to the establishment of the agitation over the network beforehand. Both on campus and in the countryside Which is largely funded from abroad. Then you failed as a movement Democracy movement foreign lackey. The movement against the country’s development To these networks against the military. And incitement to strike up).

BP : Attacking The more recent Academic Ideas from some like Nittirat etc. Who have been Speaking out Against The Military. It is all framed under the narrative of bringing down the monarchy.

Column continues:

Second step: Send special forces who are disguised as journalists and tourists. Those who are disguised as journalists send reports which are negative about Thailand to the military and exaggerate the level of violence hundreds of times over to foreign countries so they view the Thai government and. Thai military are not just. At the same point, those who are disguised as tourists will study the situation in order to launch terrorist attacks. At this stage, they will create a negative mental image of the Thai military in order to prepare the way for. the sending of various [military] forces to undertake operations in Thailand and will so under the guise of human rights (the second stage of delivery spies that lurk in the form journalists and tourists. The reporter then come in disguise. Will be sent to Thailand for the negative effects of military violence to exaggerate and extend several hundred feet away to foreign countries. Then spread the news to the world. Thailand TMB parties, that the government is unfair as they disguise themselves as tourists to study in preparation for terrorism. In this process, it creates a negative image for the country and for TMB. To pave the way for power transmission in various forms into action in Thailand. Purported humanitarian)

BP: Was also tempted to Start A Pool on Who is The Most Likely Special Forces Personnel Disguised as A Journalist, but People may actually believe The guesses. Cue sniping comments from female journalists that they are not that many male journalists who appear to be special forces guys (or perhaps, they are really deep cover and after enough alcohol and cigarettes, they have taken the form of western hacks) …

Column continues:

Third step: When protests start and officials are protecting peace, [they] will agitate for conflict in order to take advantage to cause damage to the Thai people and officials. [They] will shoot at officials in order to create an understanding that the people. have shot officials, other people, and been shot by officials. At that point, there will be a funeral procession and there will be disorder created amongst to threaten to kill each other. This news will then be spread to other countries. (Stage. Third, when the assembly increased. And they protect more calm. It would incite strife and opportunistic attacked both officers and citizens Thailand. The attack put the staff to understand that the public authorities. And the public Then establish that the public officials. Then the funeral process and caused a deadly riots between Thailand together. I have extended this out to more international).

BP : Good to know that it is only foreigners Who would Shoot Engels.

Column continues:

Fourth step: This will be the stage of sending hired [mercenary?] Forces to assist the opposition to create war with the officials. At the same time, they will create negative news that it is ethnic cleansing … and will expand until the. civil war is greater (the fourth will be a taxi to send troops to help in the war against the officer. Meanwhile It will create negative press harder as genocide. Get news and achievements of forces creep resistance. Then it expanded into a larger civil war).

Fifth Step: They Will Propose to The. UN Security Council to send Forces to suppress The Government and The Military and they Will Set up A Temporary Puppet Government and Will have A crappy election in Order for it to be positive towards The Puppet Government so that Thailand. takes the form of a puppet (Step five will be presenting the matter to the UN Security Council. Sent troops to suppress the government and military. Then set up a puppet government temporarily provided. Then a crappy election So that their movement is a puppet government. Thailand is occupied by a puppet).

BP : You’ve Just got to love The Framing of The Above. Perhaps, someone should explain the veto on the UNSC as this dastardly plan could be subverted by the freedom-fighting Russians and Chinese ….

Column continues:

All those five steps have been successfully used in many countries in the Middle East including Ukraine and the forces that will be used in Thailand are a big issue, that will create conflict within Thailand at this time, and is an issue that the NCPO [junta. ] must study and understand genuinely and thoroughly (the five-step formula that is used in many countries in the Middle East. Including Ukraine Today is going to be used against India. Thailand is a big deal now facing the whole country right now. And are subject to Csch.’ll Need to understand the concepts).

Syria escaped occupation because the Shanghai Cooperation Organization would not allow the bad plan to succeed in the occupation of Syria. This is an issue that the NCPO must understand and adjust their strategy (the survival of the Syrian occupation. Because of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization does not consent to such a plan to succeed in the occupation of Syria. That is Csch.’ll Need to understand and adapt strategies).

For people in Thailand and throughout the world, [they] must expose this dangerous plan so the Thai nation is aware and understand it. From then big maneuvers to oppose this bad plan [to be undertaken] and must make the people of the world to. be aware that the people are soldiers; the soldiers are people. All Thais of all colors are brothers and sisters and will join together to protect and preserve their country until the end! (For people across the country and around the world Thailand. Thailand must expose bad plan for the nations know and understand thoroughly. Then a join maneuver against this conspiracy. The world seemed to make submarines. The people of war The military is Thailand is the all black brothers. Together we will defend our country to the end.)

BP : The Success of Iraq Will Cause no doubt Obama and Other U.S. Policymakers to want to intervene Militarily (snigger) …. The entire Column A Parody Reads like, but it is Real ….

* Imagine if Glenn Beck was to have his own paper although not so framed around his own personality. This is about what you would have …

This is ** The name of Pen. Paisal Wilkinson Who writes for ASTV Manager and Naew Na . He is a former legal advisor to the 2006 coup leaders, former Appointed Senator, and former member of the military-installed NLA between 2006-2008. Paisal Posted it on his FB page earlier and BP discovered Thanks to Thanong of The Column. The Nation Who retweeted it …

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## Rocksteady

> again, what's wrong with killing a known tyrant in the name of Democracy ? I didn't agree with Iraq illegal invasion and Libya illegal bombing but was glad to see 2 tyrants gone in the process.
> 
> if anything from the coup could be positive, it will be the physical removal of Thaksin once and for all. The peasants will just need to find another a leader to represent their interests. 
> 
> Thai Democracy at work.


It's probably the only way.  He has promised many times to stay out of politics and not to continue to medal and then he just keeps going on with putting his puppets up as replacements! 

He should be introduced to Greek Mythology and learn about Icarus!

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## Yasojack

http://www.naewna.com/politic/columnist/12773

ไทยทั้งผองต้องรับมือ “ซีเรีย โมเดล”
ปลายสัปดาห์ที่ผ่านมามีการจัดชุมนุมของพวกกวนเมืองหร  ือที่เรียกกันว่าพวกผีสันติภาพ อ้างเรียกร้องประชาธิปไตย ต้านการรัฐประหาร แต่ไม่ต้านการก่อการร้าย ไม่ต้านการโกงบ้านกินเมือง ไม่ต้านการทำลายประเทศไทย และเป็นส่วนหนึ่งของการทำลายประเทศไทยในรูปแบบใ  หม่ หรือที่เรียกว่าซีเรีย โมเดล

กปปส. นำประชาชนผู้รักชาติชุมนุมต่อเนื่องมาเป็นเวลาถ  ึง 7 เดือน มีประชาชนเข้าร่วมชุมนุมเดินขบวนในกรุงเทพฯ มากที่สุดในประวัติศาสตร์ถึง 6 ล้านคน แต่ไม่มี “ผู้สื่อข่าวต่างประเทศ” ยกขบวนมาทำข่าวเลย ที่เสนอข่าวออกไปต่างประเทศบ้างก็กล่าวหาว่าร้า  ยว่า ประชาชนเรียกร้องเผด็จการ

แต่พอกลุ่มผีประชาธิปไตยจัดชุมนุม 30 คน 50 คน อย่างมากไม่เกิน 300 คน กลับยกขบวนนับร้อย อ้างตนเป็นผู้สื่อข่าวประเทศต่างๆมาทำข่าว แล้วรายงานข่าวเชิงลบต่อประเทศไทย สร้างภาพใหม่อันเป็นเท็จว่า คนไทยนับแสนนับล้านต่อต้านทหารที่เข้ามากอบกู้สถานกา  รณ์

ก็บอกแล้วว่า แผ่นดินนี้ศักดิ์สิทธิ์ พระสยามเทวาธิราชมีจริง แผนอุบาทว์ชาติชั่วที่ต้องการทำลายประเทศไทย ล้มสถาบันพระมหากษัตริย์ ยึดครองเป็นประเทศราช ถูกจับได้

คนไทยที่จบการศึกษาจากประเทศในตะวันออกกลางและกลุ่มค  นไทยในสหรัฐอเมริกา ได้ตรวจสอบพบแผนการอุบาทว์ชาติชั่วนี้ แล้วบอกคนไทยด้วยกันให้ได้รับรู้ว่ามหาอำนาจชาติตะวั  นตกกำลังคิดอุบาทว์ชาติชั่วกับประเทศไทย ต้องการทำลายประเทศไทย และยึดครองประเทศไทยแบบที่ยึดครองอิรัก ลิเบีย และยูเครนมาแล้ว

แต่ที่กำลังทำอยู่ในซีเรียนั้นยังไม่ประสบความส  ำเร็จ เพราะองค์การความร่วมมือแห่งเซี่ยงไฮ้ได้เปิดโปงขัดข  วางอย่างเต็มกำลัง ถึงกระนั้นก็ยังคงเรียกแผนอุบาทว์ชาติชั่วนี้ว่  า “ซีเรีย โมเดล”

จากการส่งข่าวคราวของสองแหล่งใหญ่คือกลุ่มคนไทยที่ศึ  กษาขั้นสูงอยู่ในหลายประเทศในตะวันออกกลาง และกลุ่มคนไทยในสหรัฐอเมริกา สรุปข้อความตรงกันว่า  “ซีเรีย โมเดล” คืออะไร ซึ่งเป็นเรื่องน่าสนใจ และเป็นภัยคุกคามที่ร้ายแรงที่ประชาชนชาวไทยทั้งประเ  ทศและทั่วโลกจะต้องทำความเข้าใจให้ถ่องแท้

จะได้สามัคคีสมานฉันท์กันต่อต้านแผนอุบาทว์ชาติชั่วน  ี้ และไม่ตกเป็นเครื่องมือของแผนอุบาทว์ชาติชั่วนี  ้ ตามแบบอย่างที่บรรพบุรุษไทยได้รักษาบ้านรักษาเมืองให  ้ตกทอดมาถึงรุ่นเรานี้

แผนปฏิบัติการ “ซีเรีย โมเดล” สรุปให้เข้าใจได้ง่าย ๆ อย่างนี้

ขั้นตอนแรก จะปลุกปั่นยุยงผ่านเครือข่ายที่จัดตั้งเอาไว้ก่อนแล้  ว ทั้งในมหาวิทยาลัยและในชนบท ซึ่งส่วนใหญ่ได้รับทุนสนับสนุนมาจากต่างประเทศ แล้วตั้งเป็นขบวนการล้มเจ้า ขบวนการประชาธิปไตยแบบเป็นขี้ข้าต่างชาติ และขบวนการต่อต้านการพัฒนาประเทศ เพื่อให้เครือข่ายเหล่านี้ต่อต้านฝ่ายทหาร และยุยงให้เกิดการปะทะกันขึ้น

ขั้นที่สอง จัดส่งหน่วยปฏิบัติการพิเศษที่แฝงตัวมาในรูปผู้สื่อข  ่าวและนักท่องเที่ยว โดยที่แฝงตัวมาในรูปผู้สื่อข่าวนั้น จะส่งข่าวในเชิงลบต่อประเทศไทย ต่อฝ่ายทหาร และขยายผลความรุนแรงให้เกินจริงหลายร้อยเท่าออกไปยัง  ต่างประเทศ แล้วกระจายข่าวไปยังชาวโลก เพื่อให้เห็นว่ารัฐบาลไทย ฝ่ายทหารไทย ไม่เป็นธรรม ในขณะที่พวกที่แฝงตัวเป็นนักท่องเที่ยวจะศึกษาสภาพเพ  ื่อเตรียมก่อการร้าย ในขั้นตอนนี้จะสร้างภาพลบต่อประเทศไทยและฝ่ายทห  ารไทย เพื่อปูทางให้แก่การส่งกำลังในรูปแบบต่าง ๆ เข้ามาปฏิบัติการในประเทศไทย โดยอ้างว่าเพื่อมนุษยธรรม

ขั้นที่สาม เมื่อมีการชุมนุมมากขึ้น และเจ้าหน้าที่ก็ป้องกันรักษาความสงบมากขึ้น ก็จะยุยงให้ปะทะกันและฉวยโอกาสทำร้ายทั้งประชาชนไทยแ  ละเจ้าหน้าที่ โดยจะยิงถล่มใส่ทั้งเจ้าหน้าที่เพื่อให้เข้าใจว่าประ  ชาชนยิงเจ้าหน้าที่ และยิงประชาชน แล้วสร้างข่าวว่าฝ่ายเจ้าหน้าที่ยิงประชาชน จากนั้นก็เกิดกระบวนการแห่ศพและเกิดเป็นการจลาจลเข่น  ฆ่ากันระหว่างไทยด้วยกัน แล้วมีการขยายข่าวนี้ออกไปยังต่างประเทศมากขึ้น ส่วนในประเทศก็จะขยายการปลุกระดมให้ออกมาต่อต้านมากข  ึ้น

ขั้นที่สี่ จะเป็นขั้นการส่งกองกำลังรับจ้างเข้ามาช่วยฝ่ายต่อต้  านทำสงครามกลางเมืองกับเจ้าหน้าที่ ในขณะเดียวกัน ก็จะสร้างข่าวลบหนักขึ้นว่าเป็นการฆ่าล้างเผ่าพ  ันธุ์ และข่าวความสำเร็จลุกคืบของกองกำลังฝ่ายต่อต้าน จากนั้นก็จะขยายผลให้เป็นสงครามกลางเมืองที่ใหญ  ่ขึ้น

ขั้นที่ห้า จะเป็นขั้นเสนอเรื่องต่อคณะมนตรีความมั่นคงแห่งสหประ  ชาชาติ ส่งกองกำลังเข้ามาปราบปรามรัฐบาลและทหาร จากนั้นก็ตั้งรัฐบาลชั่วคราวจากหุ่นเชิดที่เตรี  ยมไว้ แล้วจัดการเลือกตั้งแบบเส็งเคร็ง เพื่อให้พวกขบวนการหุ่นเชิดเป็นรัฐบาล เป็นการยึดครองประเทศไทยโดยหุ่นเชิด

ทั้งห้าขั้นนั้นเป็นสูตรสำเร็จที่ได้ใช้มาแล้วในหลาย  ประเทศในตะวันออกกลาง รวมทั้งยูเครน และวันนี้กำลังจะนำมาใช้กับประเทศไทย เป็นเรื่องใหญ่ที่กำลังเผชิญหน้าคนไทยทั้งประเทศอยู่  ในขณะนี้ และเป็นเรื่องที่ คสช. จะต้องศึกษาทำความเข้าใจให้ถ่องแท้

ซีเรียยังรอดจากการยึดครอง เพราะองค์การความร่วมมือแห่งเซี่ยงไฮ้ไม่ยินยอมให้แผ  นร้ายดังกล่าวประสบความสำเร็จในการยึดครองซีเรี  ย นั่นเป็นเรื่องที่ คสช. จะต้องทำความเข้าใจและปรับกลยุทธ์ ตลอดจนความสัมพันธ์ระหว่างประเทศให้บังเกิดประโยชน์ส  ูงสุด ให้ทันท่วงที

สำหรับประชาชนไทยทั่วประเทศและทั่วโลก จะต้องเปิดโปงแผนร้ายให้ประชาชาติไทยได้ทราบและเข้าใ  จโดยทั่วกัน จากนั้นก็แปรขบวนใหญ่เข้าร่วมต่อต้านแผนการร้าย  นี้ และต้องทำให้ชาวโลกประจักษ์ว่ าประชาชนคือทหาร ทหารคือประชาชน คนไทยทุกสีคือพี่น้องกัน เราจะร่วมกันพิทักษ์รักษาบ้านเมืองของเราจนถึงที่สุด  !

----------


## Mr Lick

What exactly were AHRC saying when people were dying in the streets of Bangkok and elsewhere as a direct result of the dividing political issues in Thailand prior to the coup?

----------


## Yasojack

take your pick

Thailand

this one may interest the junta supporters, all done under the PT govts watch :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

http://www.humanrights.asia/news/pre...C-PRL-006-2014

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## Butterfly

> I was thinking more along the lines of a monster on the order of Franco, Mussolini, Peron or Phibun. Phibun codified the naturally vague notion of "Thainess," laying the groundwork for future brainwashing and the ascendancy of conformity over thinking.


that too, actually one can argue that Thaksin was becoming that monster, a few more years and he would have started shooting his own people (clearly demonstrated by him sacrificing poor souls in May 2010). Ironically, he was stopped by the very same people who were breeding him to become that monster (the Yellow leaders). The Army could clearly see the profiling of a psychopath tyrant in the making, being themselves surrounded with a few.

Unfortunately, Thaksin won't be the last one if the Army keep "protecting" the people of Thailand from growing politically. It's true that the region has a sad history when it comes to political "liberation" and "progressive policies". Anyway, the Yellow leaders will soon breed a new monster without the Army approval and we will back to where we were.

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## Dandyhole

Democracy is the threat to the "thai way"

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## Yasojack

I see butters must of looked up what Tyrants means as he has changed the record now to a tyrant in the making :rofl:

----------


## leemo

> Army, Police Successfully Neutralize Blank Sheet Of A4 Paper
> 
> 2 Jun 2014
> RAJPRASONG  A large-scale, coordinated military and police effort was credited on Sunday with the successful containment and suppression of a single blank sheet of A4 copy paper.
> The paper, which measured 8.5 by 11 inches, was apprehended  by soldiers at the corner of Phayathai and Rathawithi roads in the Victory Monument area of Bangkok at 3:47pm on Sunday, and subsequently charged with sedition and violation of orders from the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO).
> We are pleased with the results of our peacekeeping operations, said NCPO head General Prayuth Chan-Ocha. This sheet of paper needed to be stopped, and our forces did their duty.
> Over 1000 armed men were able to contain a rogue A4 paper. Inset: The offending blank sheet.  
> Over 1000 armed men were able to contain a rogue A4 paper. Inset: The offending blank sheet.
> Rumors of the possible illegal assembly of blank pieces of paper spread on social media over the weekend, leading up to the massive response by army troops and police brigades. As of 10am Sunday, no fewer than 600 soldiers and 450 riot-armed policemen, supported by 50 vehicles, were present at key locations throughout the capital, including Victory Monument, Democracy Monument, Rajprasong, Lumpini Park, and a dozen large shopping malls.
> ...


Oh dear I feel for it. Someone please keep us updated.

----------


## Yasojack

I have deep regret to inform you, the junta have gone the way of the north Koreans, at 3am this morning the A4 was put to the stake and burnt alive his members of his family and press were in attendance

Buddha Isaara(the thought Police center) was  heard remarking in the name of thailand all persons,A4s found to be thinking about any form of democracy will be getting a visit from the TPC.

Have mercy on Thailand.

----------


## leemo

I really think someone should inform Paper Rights International.

----------


## Yasojack

I believe all relevant organisations have been informed, though as most are sponsored by money brookers are only Lip service to the execution.

Issara was heard commenting anything in paper now has to pay.

The Paper suppliers organisation centre against repression have reported they shall be buying there Pulp from other sources now.

----------


## Butterfly

> I see butters must of looked up what Tyrants means as he has changed the record now to a tyrant in the making


you have a bit of reading comprehension problem, don't you ? could explain a lot,

he fitted the definition of a tyrant, and would have become one of the greatest tyrant eventually

is that what you were looking forward to ?

----------


## Waid

Brilliant article by Not the Nation. 

Will be interesting to watch how A4's reorganize their resistance. Quills to the fore.

----------


## Butterfly

are you saying that the Reds have as much to say as a blank A4 page ? I think the irony might have been lost on some here,

The Reds Resistance Manifest == a blank A4 page

----------


## Waid

^ Perhaps I'm missing something. Anyone mention a red A4? Thought A4's were white?

----------


## S Landreth

Pity a coup had to occur to curb the murdering/violence 

Warrants sought for nine over attacks on PDRC

The Nation June 2, 2014 1:00 am

__________________

May 26, 2014

Two men arrested under suspicion of PDRC protest stage attack in Trat

__________________

June 4, 2014

รวบแล้ว 2 มือบึ้ม-ยิง กปปส ตราด นำตัวทำแผน

2 Men involved in Bomb and Gun Attack at PDRC Stage in Trat were caught and taken for planned re-enactment

__________________

รวบมือบึ้มกปปส.ตราดคุมตัวไปทำแผน

รวบมือบึ้มกปปส.ตราดคุมตัวไปทำแผน


June 4, 2014

Men involved in PDRC Stage Bomb and Gun Attack were caught and taken for planned re-enactment

___________________

ตามล่า-ออกหมายจับเพิ่มแก๊งยิงถล่ม กปปส.ที่ตราด

Hunt for & Arrest Warrant Issued for More People Involved  in PDRC Stage Bomb and Gun Attack

____________________

Suspects in grenade attack on PDRC rally in Trat arrested


Trat provincial police Wednesday  arrested two suspects who they said were involved in the M 79 grenade attack at the rally of the PDR protesters in Trat which killed two children and a woman on February 22.

The two were identified as Somsak Poolsawat, and Vajara Kracharng.

Police said  Somsak confessed to the lethal attack on the anti-government protest in Khao Saming district of Trat province on February 22 which killed three persons, including two children.

He admitted of throwing hand grenade at the rally from the running pickup truck.

But Vajara denied any involvement the grenade attack on the PDRC rally.

He, however, admitted only to the possession of firearms.

Police seized several items of weapon which included an AK 47 assault rifle, and more than 500 rounds of .223 cartridges and materials used for making home-made bombs.

Eight people who were involved in the Trat attack are still on the run and the police are now hunting for them.

----------


## baldrick

Not the nations satire was about as funnyy as tweery57 normally is

Just more retard.

The coup protestors are posturing for the media and facebook/twitter

Before stopping via starbucks on the way home to admire the happy snaps on the retina display

----------


## Norton

Got this from an avid PDRC member. Guess all sides have their version, reasons and justification for actions. Another example of what even well educated fall for if fed on a constant diet of propaganda. Same goes for "reds".

----------


## pseudolus

> Got this from an avid PDRC member. Guess all sides have their version, reasons and justification for actions. Another example of what even well educated fall for if fed on a constant diet of propaganda. Same goes for "reds".


INdeed. Incredibly naive thinking that John Kerry gives a toss what the opponents to his mate Thaksin think. 

...oh and as for starting it with Tony Bliar???? What were they thinking. Devalues the truth in the actual video though which is a shame.

----------


## blue

> Army invades Phuket to clear violent, illegal taxi drivers
> 
> PHUKET: A deployment of 100 soldiers from Southern Thailand today provided military support to a huge task force of 1,110 police officers and 40 volunteers who swept along the west coast of Phuket to purge the island of illegal, violent, abusive and cheating taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan drivers.
> 
> The soldiers were acting under orders from Maj Gen Peerapol Wiriyakul, Commanding General of the 41st Military Circle, which operates out of the Fourth Army Area Command in Nakhon Sri Thammarat.
> 
> Over 70 drivers were taken into custody in a single blitz led by Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commander of the Royal Thai Police Region 8 division. 
> 
> “I assigned a squad headed by Maj Gen Paween Pongsirin to start tackling this problem on January 30,” Gen Panya told the press this afternoon.
> ...


read more
Army invades Phuket to clear violent, illegal taxi drivers

A wild guess, but I bet we won't hear any jet ski scam stories for a while.....

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Army invades Phuket to clear violent, illegal taxi drivers
> 
> PHUKET: A deployment of 100 soldiers from Southern Thailand today provided military support to a huge task force of 1,110 police officers and 40 volunteers who swept along the west coast of Phuket to purge the island of illegal, violent, abusive and cheating taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan drivers.
> 
> The soldiers were acting under orders from Maj Gen Peerapol Wiriyakul, Commanding General of the 41st Military Circle, which operates out of the Fourth Army Area Command in Nakhon Sri Thammarat.
> 
> Over 70 drivers were taken into custody in a single blitz led by Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commander of the Royal Thai Police Region 8 division. 
> 
> I assigned a squad headed by Maj Gen Paween Pongsirin to start tackling this problem on January 30, Gen Panya told the press this afternoon.
> ...


Good shit - The Shinawats didn't do shit about the ridiculous scams during the last 10 years.

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## Thormaturge

There is now a rumour that the military intend to start Thailand's space programme.

  By the end of this decade Thailand will put a man on the moon.











 Thaksin Shinawatra.

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## Albert Shagnastier

Pretty good basic summation




And by an American no doubt!

There is hope yet  :Smile:

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## Waid

> There is now a rumour that the military intend to *re-start* Thailand's space programme.
> 
>   By the end of this decade Thailand will put a man on the moon.
> 
> ...
> 
>  Thaksin Shinawatra.


Very funny.   :smiley laughing: 

I thought Thailand had started a space program some 10-12 years ago?

Wonder what they'll call the Shin disposal program? Perhaps add in a few more of the family.

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## robuzo

> Pity a coup had to occur to curb the murdering/violence 
> 
> Warrants sought for nine over attacks on PDRC


Maybe there'll be some prosecutions over the massacre at Wat Pathum. Hypocritical much?

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Maybe there'll be some prosecutions over the massacre at Wat Pathum. Hypocritical much?


6 people were shot - by unidentified assailants - you can't call that a massacre.

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## pseudolus

> Very funny.  
> 
> I thought Thailand had started a space program some 10-12 years ago?
> 
> Wonder what they'll call the Shin disposal program? Perhaps add in a few more of the family.


Very good way to syphon of billions of baht, and also let the country pay for the really expensive items such as satellites and getting them up there, that private businesses should be paying... No wonder Thaksin started this agency. I bet he creamed it in from this one.

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## Bettyboo

> by unidentified assailants


 :rofl:

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## Yasojack

And today its reported Thailand has re-gained No1  world rice exporter from 20th may two days before coup :rofl: 





> Got this from an avid PDRC member. Guess all sides have their version, reasons and justification for actions. Another example of what even well educated fall for if fed on a constant diet of propaganda. Same goes for "reds".

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
>  by unidentified assailants


So you reckon that every bomb thrown at the PDRC were thrown by themselves as a cunning psyops - but find it hard to believe that the "men in black" could have been agent provocateurs too?

Really?  :Smile: 

Not saying that's the case - we don't know - but it sure could be.

Either way though - six people is a multiple murder - not a fucking massacre FFS.

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## Yasojack

Albert you not been reading the news,its the workd globalists causing all the trouble in Thailand :Smile:

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## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> Maybe there'll be some prosecutions over the massacre at Wat Pathum. Hypocritical much?
> 
> 
> 6 people were shot - *by unidentified assailants* - you can't call that a massacre.


You are, once again, rewriting history... That was my point.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newman...watpathum2.pdf

Soldiers on the BTS track.

These soldiers seen, photographed and videoed shooting into the Wat.

Their bullets were the ones that killed the people in the Wat...

----------


## taxexile

> Army invades Phuket to clear violent, illegal taxi drivers
> 
> PHUKET: A deployment of 100 soldiers from Southern Thailand today provided military support to a huge task force of 1,110 police officers and 40 volunteers who swept along the west coast of Phuket to purge the island of illegal, violent, abusive and cheating taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan drivers.
> 
> The soldiers were acting under orders from Maj Gen Peerapol Wiriyakul, Commanding General of the 41st Military Circle, which operates out of the Fourth Army Area Command in Nakhon Sri Thammarat.
> 
> Over 70 drivers were taken into custody in a single blitz led by Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commander of the Royal Thai Police Region 8 division. 
> 
> “I assigned a squad headed by Maj Gen Paween Pongsirin to start tackling this problem on January 30,” Gen Panya told the press this afternoon.
> ...


even if the coup achieves nothing else, for this act alone it should be hailed as an overriding success.

they should have lined the bastards up and shot them as a warning to all the other leeches and scum that operate with impunity in thailand to cheat, rob, intimidate and attack both tourists and thais in this silly country.

heres hoping for a real root and branch purge of the police force next.

long live the general !!!!

----------


## pseudolus

> Army invades Phuket to clear violent, illegal taxi drivers
> 
> PHUKET: A deployment of 100 soldiers from Southern Thailand today provided military support to a huge task force of 1,110 police officers and 40 volunteers who swept along the west coast of Phuket to purge the island of illegal, violent, abusive and cheating taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan drivers.
> 
> The soldiers were acting under orders from Maj Gen Peerapol Wiriyakul, Commanding General of the 41st Military Circle, which operates out of the Fourth Army Area Command in Nakhon Sri Thammarat.
> 
> Over 70 drivers were taken into custody in a single blitz led by Lt Gen Panya Mamen, Commander of the Royal Thai Police Region 8 division. 
> 
> I assigned a squad headed by Maj Gen Paween Pongsirin to start tackling this problem on January 30, Gen Panya told the press this afternoon.
> ...



Bloody brilliant. I hope they do the same here in Pattaya as well.

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## Mr Lick

> All of the drivers arrested were denied police bail.


How refreshingly ethical

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## Yasojack

See China may have supported the Junta :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  

What did some of our valued members say?

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by robuzo
> ...


So Wat?

That's not the point - point is - it wasn't a fvckn massacre - get it?

Secondly, the reds were shooting at the army everywhere.
So they shot back
So Wat?

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## Bettyboo

So Wat?

Firstly, you changed the truth to serve your political goals, and now you're belittling the killings.

Secondly, when somebody will go to any lengths to try to defend their political side it becomes a very sorry state of affairs and said folks are potentially very dangerous to society as the likes of Goebbels and Stalin used to their advantage.

I think that Robuzo's originally point was that all the 'political justice' since 2006 has been very one-sided. Numerous red shirt folks and anti-PADites have been arrested, tried (very quickly) and put in prison. Not, so when it's PADite violence or army violence. Justice is great, I am pleased to see folks who hurled bombs arrested and tried, but in must be blind... That's Wat, Albert...

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## Albert Shagnastier

> Firstly, you changed the truth to serve your political goals,


I don't have any political goals so that's hardly correct.



> and now you're belittling the killings.


No, no I'm not - just a bit of word play wat?  :Smile: 



> Secondly, when somebody will go to any lengths to try to defend their political side it becomes a very sorry state of affairs and said folks are potentially very dangerous to society as the likes of Goebbels and Stalin used to their advantage.






> I think that Robuzo's originally point was that all the 'political justice' since 2006 has been very one-sided. Numerous red shirt folks and anti-PADites have been arrested, tried (very quickly) and put in prison. Not, so when it's PADite violence or army violence. Justice is great, I am pleased to see folks who hurled bombs arrested and tried, but in must be blind...


Well personally, I find over dramatic and over emotional rhetoric like that of robuzo and you unhelpful and indeed destabilising. That's why I point it out. To some people that don't know Thailand you guys make it out to be some Nazi concentration camp ruled with an iron fist by the amart. That is an utter load of bollocks - Thais do whatever they want - whenever they want (on the whole) and they have almost no laws to break - even if they wanted to. It's a massively free country and life here is good. Since the coup things have got back to normal and things will continue as they have always done in Thailand - not in an illusionary perfect western mould.

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## Bettyboo

Life isn't so good for volunteer nurses in a Wat who are murdered by the army, or parents seeking the truth of the matter...

As  far as laws go, your comment is plain wrong, Thailand has lots of laws and they are mostly very good ones. There is a problem with enforcement and the rulings, but the laws themselves are numerous and solid.

What you could have done, Albert, is just said that you were wrong; that's what most of us do from time to time rather than change the subject and avoid the truth like the plague...  :Smile:

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## S Landreth

More arms seizures and arrests after military coup reveal political links


The daily seizures of firearms and ammunition and the arrests of suspects by the police and soldiers in the capital and the provinces after the military coup have once again divulged some connection with the political violence that have resulted in many casualties since the anti-government protest broke out in November last year.

Now both the Army and the police investigators are stepping up their investigation to bring those responsible to justice.

With the Army now in charge of peace and order, army personnel and police have managed to make a number of arrests of persons bearing military arms.

Among the discoveries have been machine guns, rocket launchers, explosives and ammunition.

But most alarming are the recent discoveries of RPGs or rocket propelled grenades, , hand grenades and RG5 (also known as Time Delayed Hand Grenades) in a banana tree patch. Large cache of ammunitions from a Chinese arms dealer were also uncovered in Chonburi.

Latest discovery Thursday are M-26s (hand grenade) and M-67s (fragmentation hand grenade) in a grassy area next to the Jomtien-Pattaya road.

Although the grenades looked old and worn, they are still live and lethal.

The police believed these weapon were thrown away as owners feared of heavy punishment of up to 20 years in prison if not handed over to the authorities by June 10.

But police said the most interesting discovery is the raid and arrest of suspects in a rented room in Krathum Baen district, Samut Sakhon province several weeks ago.

In this discovery, forensic tests have verified that the weapons found at the scene were used to shoot at the protest rally of the Peoples Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) in Trat province on  February 22 this year which resulted in three deaths, including two children.

Investigations have implicated a long list of people of different levels involved in this discovery that even implicated  the bloody riot against the Abhisit government in 2010, the explosion at the Metta mansion in Nonthaburi which points to a home-made bomb assemblers located in  Minburi area.

Authorities have now issued 10  arrest warrants of which three suspects were arrested, and an  arms training video clip was also seized.

Deputy Police Chief Pol Gen  Aek Angsananon said he could verify that  the bomb explosion in Minburi which led to two deaths was linked to the 2010 riot incident.

The arrested suspects have been handed over to the Department of Special Investigation.

He said the police have  reliable sources that implicate this group to both incidents.

Meanwhile, provincial police Thursday also managed to seize over 300 guns, of which 110 are licensed. Also among the discovery are two assault rifles  and over 2,000 ammunition.

Acting deputy chief of the Region Two Provincial Police revealed that the police have issued warrants for the arrest of Mr. Sornrak Malaitong and Mr. Phan Potong for illegal possession of ammunitions in connection to the discovery of the AK-47 and Sekase assault rifles in a parked vehicle in Chantra Resort, Nakorn Nayok province last May.

Mr Sornrak is the owner of the redshirt community radio station in Nonthaburi.

A warrant has also been issued for the vehicles owner, Ms. Thantari Jarujittiwat,  wife of Mr Sithichai Kittikanesuan, a former MP  of the Pheu Thai party.

Mr. Sithichai is also the proprietor of the Chantra Resort and has now turned himself into the authorities and he has denied any connection.




> Originally Posted by S Landreth
> 
> 
> Pity a coup had to occur to curb the murdering/violence 
> 
> Warrants sought for nine over attacks on PDRC
> 
> 
> Maybe there'll be some prosecutions over the massacre at Wat Pathum.


Lets hope everyone who committed a crime is brought to justice (either side of the aisle) in time. And lets also hope no one is ever given immunity to any criminal offences committed.

----------


## Dandyhole

^ Cannot believe a word these thugs utter.

Just who's guns are pointing at the pro democracy supporters heads?

----------


## RPETER65

Democracy and liberty are not the same thing. Democracy is little more than mob rule, while liberty refers to the sovereignty of the individual


                             Walter E Williams


Which would you rather have ?

----------


## RPETER65

> ^ Cannot believe a word these thugs utter.
> 
> Just who's guns are pointing at the pro democracy supporters heads?




Why is the most popular post about the military, you can not believe a word they say. Why don't you just admit things could possibly be improving in Thailand, you people are unbelievable.

----------


## Dandyhole

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> 
> ^ Cannot believe a word these thugs utter.
> 
> Just who's guns are pointing at the pro democracy supporters heads?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who do the military tell you they answer to?

Or you admit the converse?

And who's heads are the Junta guns pointing at?

----------


## Dandyhole

> Democracy and liberty are not the same thing. Democracy is little more than mob rule, while liberty refers to the sovereignty of the individual
> 
> 
>                              Walter E Williams
> 
> 
> Which would you rather have ?


Who said they were, but I would champion self-determination for the thai people, would you?

----------


## wasabi

Improving , improving, improving, did you say improving, of course conditions are improving, 7/11 and Tesco Lotus popping up all over the place, and a Subway, good news lads, no need to worry, things have got better.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> Democracy and liberty are not the same thing. Democracy is little more than mob rule, while liberty refers to the sovereignty of the individual
> 
> 
>                              Walter E Williams
> 
> 
> ...



Only pointing out the ideology of democracy as quite often refered to by some posters on this forum is not really the answer to the many problems in Thailand.


As far as self determination, I would always choose self determination, but only if it actually reflects the true wishes of the people. With the politics in Thailand being as corupt as they are I would suggest this to be impossible.

----------


## RPETER65

> Improving , improving, improving, did you say improving, of course conditions are improving, 7/11 and Tesco Lotus popping up all over the place, and a Subway, good news lads, no need to worry, things have got better.



I see you failed to mention killers, scammers, , horders of illegal weapons being arrested and there weapons confiscated, and most importantly destitute farmers being paid long overdue payments, I could go on but I think you get the point,well maybe not you and many other posters seem to be quite myopic, all hung up on democracy being the fix all.

----------


## Dandyhole

Been watching various twitter and Facebook type media since the coup, and the pattern does look to be an assault on any pro-democracy elements out there by Prayuths Junta.

But how far does he intend to go?

Cleanse the shins from Thailand
Cleanse the shins and supporters from Thailand
Cleanse the Redshirts also from Thailand
Cleanse the UDD also from Thailand
Ethnically cleanse the whole of Issaan from Thailand

To complete his attack on democracy , and deny the "peasants" the vote, I would think Prayuth May favour the last option

----------


## RPETER65

> Been watching various twitter and Facebook type media since the coup, and the pattern does look to be an assault on any pro-democracy elements out there by Prayuths Junta.
> 
> But how far does he intend to go?
> 
> Cleanse the shins from Thailand
> Cleanse the shins and supporters from Thailand
> Cleanse the Redshirts also from Thailand
> Cleanse the UDD also from Thailand
> Ethnically cleanse the whole of Issaan from Thailand
> ...





You seem to suggest an eternal attack on democracy, history shows this not to be true, when has the military in Thailand held power for more than a few months, I see they are predicting elections to be held in about a year.

----------


## Yasojack

The military are just doing what they do best, cause more fear for there own propaganda machine.

Finding arms  in streets etc suggests the fight is off, if you wished to continue the struggle would you be throwing them away.

I know what i would be doing hiding them were they wouldn't be found so easily. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> 
> ^ Cannot believe a word these thugs utter.
> 
> Just who's guns are pointing at the pro democracy supporters heads?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It has little to do with facts, truth or reality, and much to do with perception. Sell that right, and you can get the people to burn each other.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> ...


Just pointing, for now, but it may well be at two high profile heads not one.

----------


## nidhogg

> You seem to suggest an eternal attack on democracy, history shows this not to be true, when has the military in Thailand held power for more than a few months, I see they are predicting elections to be held in about a year.


Thai history is definately not on of my strong points, but would have to take a second look at this.  Kriangsak - 3 years in power followed by Prem.....8 years in power......

----------


## leemo

> Improving , improving, improving, did you say improving, of course conditions are improving, 7/11 and Tesco Lotus popping up all over the place, and a Subway, good news lads, no need to worry, things have got better.


Those 'popups' were being planned from months if not years back, and the owners know that the cost of an abortion far exceeds the temporary cost of forging ahead.

Get this right; no matter what our glorious leaders do to the country, Thailand will bounce back as a viable exporter and tourist destination. Probably not as a 'democracy', but there's no loss on that front.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by RPETER65
> ...


Self determination is a great term, but not for all. In backward and underdeveloped countries it is typically a method to install looters and murderers, while in the West it determines who will have the power to serve or ignore the interests of the people. 

This is evident from our great new 'democracies', from the Soviet states to Africa and the MidEast and region, when you look at what the nouveau free 'self determined'...

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by wasabi
> 
> 
> Improving , improving, improving, did you say improving, of course conditions are improving, 7/11 and Tesco Lotus popping up all over the place, and a Subway, good news lads, no need to worry, things have got better.
> 
> 
> 
> I see you failed to mention killers, scammers, , horders of illegal weapons being arrested and there weapons confiscated, and most importantly destitute farmers being paid long overdue payments, I could go on but I think you get the point,well maybe not you and many other posters seem to be quite myopic, all hung up on democracy being the fix all.


Worst thing for Thailand would be a Western style democracy, where the people have a voice of sorts even after election day. 

Best scenario would be a resumption of its former glorious version. 

Likely scenario is not even that.

----------


## leemo

> Been watching various twitter and Facebook type media since the coup, and the pattern does look to be an assault on any pro-democracy elements out there by Prayuths Junta.
> 
> But how far does he intend to go?
> 
> Cleanse the shins from Thailand
> Cleanse the shins and supporters from Thailand
> Cleanse the Redshirts also from Thailand
> Cleanse the UDD also from Thailand
> Ethnically cleanse the whole of Issaan from Thailand
> ...


And what about the other fugitive on 'simmer', not the square headed one?

----------


## Yasojack

Whilst Thailand is popular for tourism, there seems to be a shift in its tourists nowadays, if the shift continues its going to become the new Spain of Asia.

The shift coming from Russia china india, the greater the numbers coming here in my eyes makes it less attractive, these countries are getting there hotels flights are bucket shop rates.

The Philippine's  if it gets its act together could well be the new place to go again.

----------


## Yasojack

Come on Leemo Thaksin is and has been the only destroyer of Thailand :Smile: 





> Originally Posted by Dandyhole
> 
> 
> Been watching various twitter and Facebook type media since the coup, and the pattern does look to be an assault on any pro-democracy elements out there by Prayuths Junta.
> 
> But how far does he intend to go?
> 
> Cleanse the shins from Thailand
> Cleanse the shins and supporters from Thailand
> ...

----------


## leemo

> The military are just doing what they do best, cause more fear for there own propaganda machine.
> 
> Finding arms  in streets etc suggests the fight is off, if you wished to continue the struggle would you be throwing them away.
> 
> I know what i would be doing hiding them were they wouldn't be found so easily.


If the arms stashes are genuine and red, the junta are doing well to find them. And if they are not, so what?

Seems a lot of trouble and planning and resources to raise a false flag for propaganda that makes little difference when you already own the country. That effort could well be funnelled elsewhere, like to the economy. But as mentioned earlier, those perceiving these finds as a false flag will never be dissuaded.

----------


## leemo

> Come on Leemo Thaksin is and has been the only destroyer of Thailand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by leemo
> ...


The economy was fine while he was looting it. But as one poster dared to suggest, it's beginning to look like this coup may well be considering to strike at the Gordian Knot, with Thaksin certainly up there in the sights but as a convenient diversion, or to put it mildly, a secondary objective.

----------


## Yasojack

Leemo

Thats the point of many Thais now the establishment who own the country will no doubt, find a anti establishment movement growing by the day.

And no doubt will be fuelled by outside influences, sad days ahead.

----------


## leemo

> Leemo
> 
> Thats the point of many Thais now the establishment who own the country will no doubt, find a anti establishment movement growing by the day.
> 
> And no doubt will be fuelled by outside influences, sad days ahead.


Indeed, and that's why I believe this coup is different to the last one, and lethal to the fabric of Thai society. But once its objectives are met, or compromised, Thailand stands a chance of reverting to the same old same old, which for now would be a blinding result.  

The lethal bit comes in if those plans are thwarted, or possibly worse, forced to be aborted due to consequences that not even our glorious leaders could ignore, or relish. 

Who knows, the country may end up losing the very thing that those nice men with guns ruined the country pretending to protect.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Dramatic scenes in Khlong Toei this morning as military special forces stormed the SET building to capture red shirt leader Pi Tee Koh Si.

----------


## Yasojack

there window cleaners :Smile:

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

window cleaners there?

oh yeah, they're window cleaners.

 :Smile:

----------


## tomta

> You seem to suggest an eternal attack on democracy, history shows this not to be true, when has the military in Thailand held power for more than a few months, I see they are predicting elections to be held in about a year.


Every time they relinquish power, they don't relinquish all of it. They retain residual power. The current coup is the result of their stacking of the "independent bodies. And the coup is eternal because the threat is always there in reserve so elected governments cannot afford to step on the toes of the army. If the Yingluck government had really been in power they would have ordered the army to support the police in stopping the manifestly  illegal and violent activities of the PDRC such as preventing delivery of ballot boxes, preventing voters from exercising their rights and invading Government offices. It's quite clear that they could not do this. If they had, we would have had the coup a lot earlier.

----------


## tomta

> Democracy and liberty are not the same thing. Democracy is little more than mob rule, while liberty refers to the sovereignty of the individual


You're surely not suggesting that there is sovereignty of the individual in Thailand. The individual is not allowed to say what he thinks or even to express it with three fingers.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> Democracy and liberty are not the same thing. Democracy is little more than mob rule, while liberty refers to the sovereignty of the individual
> 
> 
> You're surely not suggesting that there is sovereignty of the individual in Thailand. The individual is not allowed to say what he thinks or even to express it with three fingers.




You seem to forget the situation in Thailand is temporary, an unfortunate result of a corrupt govt.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

"On Phuket the Army moved in when the MIB were too scared (or too involved) to act.
The first arrested was the Karon Mayor who is head of the Tuk tuk, taxi ,  Minivan syndicate who allowed his mafia free reign over the streets  including blockading resorts and hotels. They arrested 90+ without bail  and 18 more gave themselves up.
The next day they imported 200 cops from Ranong and ripped down all  their illegal salas (with water and electricity supplied by the Mayor.)

Yesterday was Kathu and Chalong's turn.

Next will be the Airport and Patong - the big ones.

Go fkn Army - more results in two weeks than I've seen in 6 years living on the Island.

An interesting point is so far, AFAIK, the Army+Police are just executing arrest warrants previously issued by the civil courts.
In other words, making the MIB do their job.

Just wait until they get pro-active and start arresting and trying in military courts."

EvilBAz - TD

https://teakdoor.com/the-teakdoor-lou...ere-off-2.html (Not waiting we're off.)

First time in the 10 years I've been here that anybody has done anything about 
the Phuket mafia scammers (that everybody despises)

Good work.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by tomta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by RPETER65
> ...


Sure, so that means when it becomes business as usual the individual will be allowed to say as he pleases, whether verbally, written, or gestured. 

And you've been in LoS how long...?

----------


## leemo

> "On Phuket the Army moved in when the MIB were too scared (or too involved) to act.
> The first arrested was the Karon Mayor who is head of the Tuk tuk, taxi ,  Minivan syndicate who allowed his mafia free reign over the streets  including blockading resorts and hotels. They arrested 90+ without bail  and 18 more gave themselves up.
> The next day they imported 200 cops from Ranong and ripped down all  their illegal salas (with water and electricity supplied by the Mayor.)
> 
> Yesterday was Kathu and Chalong's turn.
> 
> Next will be the Airport and Patong - the big ones.
> 
> Go fkn Army - more results in two weeks than I've seen in 6 years living on the Island.
> ...


Go, Prayuth, go...it'll all be restored later with whichever civilian government gets your nod, but for now at least you have the crooks in retreat.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Obviously people like Thaksin or Abhisit have no power - or no want - to deal with this type of thing. Surely if the Army is the only respected and listened to force in the country - might be a good idea for them to stay in power. If democracy brings corruption and weakness and military government improves all aspects - personally I'd leave the military in power for good.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> 
> "On Phuket the Army moved in when the MIB were too scared (or too involved) to act.
> The first arrested was the Karon Mayor who is head of the Tuk tuk, taxi ,  Minivan syndicate who allowed his mafia free reign over the streets  including blockading resorts and hotels. They arrested 90+ without bail  and 18 more gave themselves up.
> The next day they imported 200 cops from Ranong and ripped down all  their illegal salas (with water and electricity supplied by the Mayor.)
> 
> Yesterday was Kathu and Chalong's turn.
> 
> ...


Or the bigger boss is taking over  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  . Really one never knows does he??

----------


## pseudolus

> Obviously people like Thaksin or Abhisit have no power - or no want - to deal with this type of thing. Surely if the Army is the only respected and listened to force in the country - might be a good idea for them to stay in power. If democracy brings corruption and weakness and military government improves all aspects - personally I'd leave the military in power for good.


Not such a bad idea. After all, countries do not need politicians etc. They need a group of people to run the show. As soon as you have politicians, you get political parties, and from there, ruin. In countries where the vast majority are uneducated, or educated by  system designed to keep them in the dark, politicians simply use the system they create to get richer, and keep the poor, poorer. 

Communism? Not sure about  that, but certainly I would go for confiscating the HiSo (new and olds) wealth. After all, it was stolen, and is being stolen from the country in the first place. Time to give it back.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Communism? Not sure about that, but certainly I would go for confiscating the HiSo (new and olds) wealth. After all, it was stolen, and is being stolen from the country in the first place. Time to give it back.


Yes, countries like Russia are well known for giving back the wealth of the hiso's.. FFS...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  Just as so many other previous dictatorships and junta's like Myanmar are also  so well known for their benevolence...

----------


## pseudolus

> Yes, countries like Russia are well known for giving back the wealth of the hiso's.. FFS...  Just as so many other previous dictatorships and junta's like Myanmar are also so well known for their benevolence...


You don't read so well, do you. 

However, what is the difference between Communism and your idea of Democracy? 

In each, the poor get poor, and those in charge get richer. They justify it with different mantras. In the west, the Trickle Down effect "We need to be super Rich so that some of it trickles down to the poor" which is no different to "Some are more equal than others". 

In Each, those in charge manipulate the system to benefit them, their friends, and their families. Nepotism rules, with the premiership being handed out to a close knit circle of friends and families, keeping the concentration of power. Bush to Clinton to Bush to Obama to Clinton to Obama to Bush to Clinton daughter to Bush to Clinton or obama.......All there because they are trusted servants of the owners / those really in charge. 

In Each, the military are used to cement power, home and abroad, and do unspeakable acts in the name of the country, but in reality, the acts are only to cement power of the few. 

In Each, the personal property of the poorest is appropriated by the real owners. In China/Russia, houses and land owned by the state. In the West, manipulation of the markets removing property with foreclosures, no access to credit, inflating prices by mass acreage land lords using their buddies in the banks to amass thousands of houses, ensuring the poor can not afford housing. 

....and the lost goes on. 

You see, Floridaborn, you simply fail to understand that the system you hold so dear, that you believe is the pinnacle of freedom and democracy is in actuality no different from communism. Just like communism, where most of the people believed it was for the better good, the right way, the best way for them, so the propaganda works the same way in the west. Just like communism in Russia though, people are in the west are slowly realising this though. You most likely won't as you waive your little flag, cheering on one of your obama or bush or which ever puppet you happen to support because the media you like tells you to support them, and it is endemic in everything you learnt at school to embrace division, not least at your pep rallies. However, some people see through it all and that number is growing. 

As for Thailand, the people saw it, and then out comes puppet of the Yellows Suthep - the convenient peoples leader, making sure that the uprising of the people leads back to the Reds v Blues, just like it is all over the western world. 

Countries do not need politicians. They do not need civil servants. They do not need elections. They do not need any of this. They need a body of people EMPLOYED to make the country function. This could almost be set up like a company who's prime function is to break even. As soon as you have politicians, you have war. You  have corruption. You only need politicians when you  need to get the country to do something that is in your personal interest and against the countries interest. 

I would hazard a guess that more people have died the hands of free "democratic" countries leaders than at the hands of any dictator and before you start claiming other wise, remember to include WW1 with its 40 million deaths in your list....

----------


## FloridaBorn

> In Each, the personal property of the poorest is appropriated by the real owners. In China/Russia, houses and land owned by the state. In the West, manipulation of the markets removing property with foreclosures, no access to credit, inflating prices by mass acreage land lords using their buddies in the banks to amass thousands of houses, ensuring the poor can not afford housing.


I understand so much than you ever will it's almost embarrassing for you. I'm here, not there and making great headway taking full advantage of those so called shortcomings you mention.. Houses are more affordable then they have been in decades, I got great credit almost instantly when I arrived admittedly I had good credit when I left only it was stale from not using it, but since has gone OTT. 

It's more about timing and prediction that is much of what moves people forward in life.. The constant upheaval, almost like clock work there, made it near impossible to gain any footing, and to get credit as a second class citizen there was near on impossible, nothing like here. My missus has had a Bangkok Bank visa card with perfect credit for over 10 years and has never gotten a single credit increase, she should be up to  a 750,000b limit by now given her income and stability of job, here she'll be at the limit inside of 2 years..

FYI the system is more like socialism and that's mostly because of the liberals who've made it a massive PITA and huge financial burden to even start up a business without thousands of dollars paid to entitlement and other regulations making owning a business here a very difficult endevour. Even Googles Motorola which started up building their smart phones last year in a new Texas assembly plant couldn't sustain their competitiveness and is already moving everything over to China instead.. It isn't pro-business that's squelching that entrepreneurship, it's the opposing party that's doing that. Personally I mostly despise both parties since my first election, I do agree they all have been more like mirrors to each other reflecting the same mantra and demonstrating so little difference to tell them apart once in office..

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Countries do not need politicians. They do not need civil servants. They do not need elections. They do not need any of this. They need a body of people EMPLOYED to make the country function. This could almost be set up like a company who's prime function is to break even. As soon as you have politicians, you have war. You have corruption. You only need politicians when you need to get the country to do something that is in your personal interest and against the countries interest.


Spot on mate.
 :tumbs:

----------


## pseudolus

> I understand so much than you ever will it's almost embarrassing for you.


Course you do pal. You keep believing that, and waiving your little flag. 

By the way....I bought my latest house for cash, in the process of building another one, which when I make the money, has more done to it - you're preferred system has people with a mortgage, going to a bank, who created money thus devaluing the money in circulation. They then pay all of that money back with Real cash they earn, plus no doubt about 100% on top in interest. Well done you. Good one. You worship a system that lets a bank create money, pretend to lend it to you, you then pay it back with real money, and they leave you thinking it is a good idea. You're a genius, EH? 

 :rofl:

----------


## Waid

Are we witnessing the end, or at minimum curtailing, of the Western Disease - unbridled Capitalism?

Was looking at the demise of areas of Detroit via GoogleCam yesterday. Very sobering as capitalism seemed to have passed many areas by ~ 2008. By 2013 vacant lands were left.

Capitalism leaves an incredible Tsunami of utter destruction in its wake. The illusion of wealth for all does not flesh out on the ground. It becomes an exploitation vacuum cleaner for the rich & greedy - who feed off the poor & needy.

I suspect that the time-scales for Capitalism probably run into generations & possibly hundreds of years, before they wind down. This leaves the impression of the system being all that most people know, or have ever known.

----------


## leemo

Capitalism didn't do all that on its own, it had the assistance of Western liberal democracy.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Are we witnessing the end, or at minimum curtailing, of the Western Disease - unbridled Capitalism?  Was looking at the demise of areas of Detroit via GoogleCam yesterday. Very sobering as capitalism seemed to have passed many areas by ~ 2008. By 2013 vacant lands were left.  Capitalism leaves an incredible Tsunami of utter destruction in its wake. The illusion of wealth for all does not flesh out on the ground. It becomes an exploitation vacuum cleaner for the rich & greedy - who feed off the poor & needy.  I suspect that the time-scales for Capitalism probably run into generations & possibly hundreds of years, before they wind down. This leaves the impression of the system being all that most people know, or have ever known.





> Capitalism didn't do all that on its own, it had the assistance of Western liberal democracy.


Spot on 
 :tumbs:

----------


## zygote1

Getting back to the coup, I was talking to one of my friends in Ubon province earlier today. His village  has been regularly visited by soldiers who have conducted several house to house searches over the past 2 weeks. The locals are not allowed out after dark and cannot go anywhere at night without a pass/permission document. He says his local area is flush with soldiers. I've noticed that our data link for our facetalk is slower than usual this past week. I was using facetalk with my friend in BKK same day and it was the usual quality.
Question: Is this typical of what's happening upcountry?

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Question: Is this typical of what's happening upcountry?


What say you upcountry people?

----------


## terry57

Alberts Idea of leaving the Army in control don't exactly make for a Democratic country but fuk it EH.

Thailand is different innit, they don't do Democracy very well at all simply because Corruption kills Democracy every time.

Seems like the Army are starting to sort shit out. 

Firstly they payed the farmers and now they are efficiently going after the corrupt scum in Phuket.

Cant argue with that EH.

Leave them around until they get the joint sorted and then think about elections down the track.

Last thing Thailand needs now is Elections that will lead the country straight back into a country lead by corrupt politicians innit.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Alberts Idea of leaving the Army in control don't exactly make for a Democratic country but fuk it EH.


Don't get me wrong mate - I support "democracy" entirely.

But like you say,






> Thailand is different innit

----------


## Troy

> Getting back to the coup, I was talking to one of my friends in Ubon province earlier today. His village has been regularly visited by soldiers who have conducted several house to house searches over the past 2 weeks. The locals are not allowed out after dark and cannot go anywhere at night without a pass/permission document. He says his local area is flush with soldiers. I've noticed that our data link for our facetalk is slower than usual this past week. I was using facetalk with my friend in BKK same day and it was the usual quality. Question: Is this typical of what's happening upcountry?


It is not typical of our particular area upcountry (Sakon Nakhon Province). The army have left barracks and moved to more volatile areas of the Country. Presumably that means Udon to the West and Ubon to the South. 

As for net services; it has always been pretty poor in our area due to location. However, we can still Skype with stuttering video.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Getting back to the coup, I was talking to one of my friends in Ubon province earlier today. His village has been regularly visited by soldiers who have conducted several house to house searches over the past 2 weeks. The locals are not allowed out after dark and cannot go anywhere at night without a pass/permission document. He says his local area is flush with soldiers. I've noticed that our data link for our facetalk is slower than usual this past week. I was using facetalk with my friend in BKK same day and it was the usual quality. Question: Is this typical of what's happening upcountry?





> What say you upcountry people?





> It is not typical of our particular area upcountry (Sakon Nakhon Province)


There you have it - not typical at all.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Firstly they payed the farmers and now they are efficiently going after the corrupt scum in Phuket.


But for what purpose though? As I posted earlier is it for the purpose of cleaning up Phuket or just moving in on the new fertile grounds for himself? It may be a public show and behind the scenes a much different picture, how would one really know? One can't assume it's for the better, on the contrary, because it's "Thailand innit"..

----------


## longway

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> I understand so much than you ever will it's almost embarrassing for you.
> 
> 
> Course you do pal. You keep believing that, and waiving your little flag. 
> 
> By the way....I bought my latest house for cash, in the process of building another one, which when I make the money, has more done to it - you're preferred system has people with a mortgage, going to a bank, who created money thus devaluing the money in circulation. They then pay all of that money back with Real cash they earn, plus no doubt about 100% on top in interest. Well done you. Good one. You worship a system that lets a bank create money, pretend to lend it to you, you then pay it back with real money, and they leave you thinking it is a good idea. You're a genius, EH?


have you seen the videos on this website: Could These 3 Simple Changes to Banking Fix the Economy?

lays bare the true nature of our money system and how it is geared against most people.

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## Troy

> There you have it - not typical at all.


One part of one province can hardly be extrapolated to being typical for all provinces.

I'd wait for more information concerning other areas before jumping the gun mate....

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## koman

> What say you upcountry people?


I have not seen a soldier; not even one.   There is such a lack of soldiers around here one would think the country did not even have an army.    Maybe they are all over in Udon  ransacking some "red" village looking for rusty shotguns and sharpened machetes..... or providing photo-ops for idiot tourists to do selfies down in BKK...... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> Firstly they payed the farmers and now they are efficiently going after the corrupt scum in Phuket.
> 
> 
> But for what purpose though? As I posted earlier is it for the purpose of cleaning up Phuket or just moving in on the new fertile grounds for himself? It may be a public show and behind the scenes a much different picture, how would one really know? One can't assume it's for the better, on the contrary, because it's "Thailand innit"..


Sad but true!

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by terry57
> ...


It seems you will not be happy with Prayuth unless he turns Thailand into your notion of a perfect country. I have a strong feeling you will be disappointed.

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## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> Firstly they payed the farmers and now they are efficiently going after the corrupt scum in Phuket.
> 
> 
> But for what purpose though? As I posted earlier is it for the purpose of cleaning up Phuket or just moving in on the new fertile grounds for himself? It may be a public show and behind the scenes a much different picture, how would one really know? One can't assume it's for the better, on the contrary, because it's "Thailand innit"..



Exactly what would you suggest, you will never know the result of anything until time tested, what Thailand had before was utter nonsence. I say give the military a chance, let thm clean the shit out. I have had a home in Thailand since 2006, what I have seen since that time is the poorest form of democracy I have seen any where,simply a haven for corupt and greedy politicians to rip of the people. Give reform a chance.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> I don't want that at all. I want Prayuth in a jail for life. That's what I want. He's a traitor to the nation.


Can we assume from that opinion that you are Thai?

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## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by terry57
> ...


Show me some reform and maybe I would, but banning the press and suspending the constitution because it doesn't suit your "reform" does not point to reform, it points to dirty dictatorships..

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## 9999

> But for what purpose though? As I posted earlier is it for the purpose of cleaning up Phuket or just moving in on the new fertile grounds for himself? It may be a public show and behind the scenes a much different picture, how would one really know? One can't assume it's for the better, on the contrary, because it's "Thailand innit"..


Chirst you cant win can you. The junta do good things and they will obviously be accused of ulterior motives. If they didn't clean things up they would also cop it, no win for them.

You're right, how would one know? Doesn't everything have an ulterior motive? I mean if people only did things out of the goodness of their heart not much would get done now would it. It's a ridiculous line to take, when the army come in and start cleaning up the mess from the former dysfunctional government, to say they are bad for doing good things because of some unknown agenda that may or may not exist.

I'm not a huge fan of military rule but I refrain from being opinionated here, the Thais seem to hate these uneducated meddling in their affairs. Amazing how seppos think they know so much about how the rest of the world should be run. Can't we just look at things like farmers getting paid and Phuket getting cleaned up, and just be glad some good is coming of this. Surely there are more solid points you can do your poitical science high school project on?

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> ...



So you won't give it a chance. If the military had not put a stop to the protesting, and so forth you would have exactly what you had before nonsence, and that would absolutely defeat anything good the Thai army might try to accomplish. I agree this is not your ideal situation, but for generations Thailand has not been your ideal country. Going bac k to the same o same o would go on for ever, leaving Thailand in a state of limbo forever, if in a year there are no elections and the army has not succesfully addressed the corruption, then it will be time to look in a different direction. You people seem to think if elections were held to day magically, because you could call it a "democracy" 
everything would be great in Thailand. I hate to burst your dream world, but I am affraid that is not the case, you would again have nothing but the same old corrupt govt., maybe worse because they would be enbolden by there victory.

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## 9999

> More likely it's to appease the foreigners. If he really wanted to clean up things, he'd close down all the whore related businesses. Maybe that day will come. He should crack down on all video shops selling pirated goods such as DVDs.


Why not just change their flag to stars and striped while you're at it. Have you not realised that your western code of ethics are not wanted here? If you want a Nanny state this is the wrong place, even under military junta rule. Nah, better just to kick about Thailand telling them what they should be doing and how they should run the place  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Oh yeah, and don't flatter yourself so much to think the govt care so much to appease you. I lol'd at that.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by RPETER65
> ...


You came in 2006, I was already 3 years there by that time and went through the last one too, the closed airports and the downtown closings and killings, those were chances too, the politically motivated floods, of course I remain skeptical, not one of those events has shown any progress nor any positive result and worse yet has directly impacted my family negatively on a financial and personal level. Now again this is doing the same to us financially and personally in the midst of making big moves for our future, I've nothing but contempt, doubt and cynicism about the coup and that's based on personal HISTORY not conjecture..

----------


## nidhogg

> You came in 2006, I was already 3 years there by that time and went through the last one too, the closed airports and the downtown closings and killings, those were chances too, the politically motivated floods, of course I remain skeptical, not one of those events has shown any progress nor any positive result and worse yet has directly impacted my family negatively on a financial and personal level. Now again this is doing the same to us financially and personally in the midst of making big moves for our future, I've nothing but contempt, doubt and cynicism about the coup and that's based on personal HISTORY not conjecture..


You are saying the current coup (and the last one) has affected you financially directly?

Could you expand somewhat?  Not doubting, but just interested.

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## FloridaBorn

> Capitalism didn't do all that on its own, it had the assistance of Western liberal democracy.


Bingo!!!

----------


## FloridaBorn

Well I'd rather not Nid. I'll PM some vague details if you'd like but not air info that personal in the open forum.

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## nidhogg

> Well I'd rather not Nid. I'll PM some vague details if you'd like but not air info that personal in the open forum.


No worries mate.  Hope you get it all sorted.  No need the gory details.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> the politically motivated floods


Erm, how can floods be politically motivated?

Sounds like something Davide Icke would say  :Smile:

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> the politically motivated floods
> 
> 
> Erm, how can floods be politically motivated?
> 
> Sounds like something Davide Icke would say



Been over this ad infinitum if you don't understand the politics behind it then I can't be arsed to explain it again..

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagsnastier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by FloridaCumguzzler
> ...


Surely if I don't understand you should be kind enough to explain?

Was it a black psyops by elite republican guards in league with god?
 :Smile:

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

The Reds have joined the "Peace Train"

Right on dudes!  :Smile: 

 :Smile: 

Junta says reds are joining peace train | Bangkok Post: news

Junta says reds are joining peace train Detention helps sway UDD leaders      Published: 8 Jun 2014 at 06.04 | Viewed: 4,830 | Comments: 12     Newspaper section: News     Writer: Wassana Nanuam  The... 

Please credit and share this article with others using  this  link:Junta says reds are joining peace train | Bangkok Post: news.  View our policies at Bangkok Post: Terms and conditions of use and Bangkok Post: Republishing policy. ©  Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved.

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## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> ...



From this post it appears you are ok with the corruption that has plagued Thai politics for years, as long as it suits your personal finances, sorry mate but this is about a lot more than you.

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## Tom Sawyer

This story needs a new chapter. So I'll wait until that happens.. It ain't over - it may be just beginning. 

I'll wait to see it. Some will say the Reds have been defeated, maybe. But I think the people who have so much to lose if Suthep's angels get their way will not go to bed quietly. For me, I'll just wait to see. So go on Prayuth, too funny, let's see..

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## thaimeme

This thread is all very engaging. Some quite informative and some crap. Bear with me, I'm just catching up. Keep up the continuous chat.

----------


## terry57

> I'll wait to see it. 
> 
> Some will say the Reds have been defeated, maybe.





Mate,

What I have really enjoyed about this thread is reading the Opinions of the hard core Political nutters, they think they Know all but know piss all.

Regards saying the Reds have been defeated ? maybe so but since I'm only a farang I'm not going there.   :Smile: 

Thailand is always full of surprises.    :spam2:

----------


## BaitongBoy

> maybe so


Well, ya sorta went there...

----------


## Bangyai

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> 
>  
> I'll wait to see it. 
> 
> Some will say the Reds have been defeated, maybe.
> 
> 
> ...


Right on Terry ! What I have enjoyed most about this thread is reading the opinions of those that know piss all ( by their own admission ) but think they know something ! Fookin hilarious ! My favourite has to be Alberts indignant post that no Thais had ever tortured other Thais, Fookin funny as fook. Old Alberts blurter was workin overtime when he said that innit !

 :rofl:

----------


## zygote1

> This story needs a new chapter. So I'll wait until that happens.. It ain't over - it may be just beginning. 
> 
> I'll wait to see it. Some will say the Reds have been defeated, maybe. But I think the people who have so much to lose if Suthep's angels get their way will not go to bed quietly. For me, I'll just wait to see. So go on Prayuth, too funny, let's see..


The French said that in Indochine.  Eisenhower and then JFK said the same in Vietnam, multiple European colonial powers said the same in Africa. History indicates that the many will have just gone to ground and have adopted  a wait & patience  position. Wherever there is significant social and economic injustice and inequity, tomorrow's "revolutionaries" are born and raised. Cynics say that the Europeans and  Americans  have not learnt from history. I think they have and have focused on dealing with the root causes of popular uprisings. It is a lesson yet to be learnt in SE Asia.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by RPETER65
> ...


You lack comprehension PETER, you read nothing of the kind, I'm against corruption and don't wish to see it shift to an even stronger boss with an entire military behind him.. I'd like to see stability and rule of law with a legitimate government in place, free press and worthwhile constitution, is that so difficult for you and other blinkered members with rose colored glasses on to see?

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> ...



You say you are against coruption but what you would like to see in Thailand will only lead back to the same old Shiniwatra clan leading back to mass corruption, and then back to mass protesters in the street, are you to dense to see this, what leads you to believe an election now would improve anything in Thailand, I would really like to hear your thoughts on this, and not just the old we need democracy, as at this point democracy will do nothing to improve anything in the short term, yes eventually Thailand will need to go back to democracy, but in the mean time many things need to be sorted out.

  As for you denying you coming from personal reasons I quote " and worse has directly impacted my family on a personal and financial level" underscore the word worse. Sounds pretty personal to me, how would you suggest I take this. 

 How do you suggest getting rid of the Shiniwatra clan without the strength of the army?

----------


## FloridaBorn

Where do you see any denials from me about anything? Stop posting fabricated info and provide links please? It's clear you're going to argue no matter what is said to you, so go and argue with the wall at least you can win that one.. Actually though, all of my families issues have been directly due to the dems and nothing to do with the "Shinawatra clan" I didn't like him either but the turmoil came from the opposite side..

----------


## Troy

> How do you suggest getting rid of the Shiniwatra clan without the strength of the army?


Where's Dick Whittington when you need him?

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## RPETER65

> Where do you see any denials from me about anything? Stop posting fabricated info and provide links please? It's clear you're going to argue no matter what is said to you, so go and argue with the wall at least you can win that one.. Actually though, all of my families issues have been directly due to the dems and nothing to do with the "Shinawatra clan" I didn't like him either but the turmoil came from the opposite side..



What are you on about,what fabricated info, no arguing just stating my opinion. Do you actually think an election now would not lead back to the same nonsence before?I do notice you haven't offered any ideas for a solution to the current situation.

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## Waid

I wonder how Thailand would do if a government of national unity, consisting of all major parties, were to be established for a period of 5 years?

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## longway

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> ...


I think most share your vision of the destination, but opinions differ on the route. I know that you will pop back with a 'righteous' coups never solve anything blah blah blah, but in many cases neither do elections; there are too many countries in the world that are and will be unrelentling sh*tholes, far worse than Thailand, no matter how many elections they hold.

In Thailand's case the your goal may be unattainable for decades, perhaps a system where neither elected or unlected elites are allowed to fully dominate the country is better than one where one or the other fully dominates it in the meantime. An electoral oligarchy is nothing like a democracy.

In the meantime I suggest you lay off drinking the politically motivated flood water, as it is addling your senses.

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## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by RPETER65
> ...





Exactly what I have been trying to say.

----------


## KEVIN2008

Thai military junta orders citizens to ‘cheer up’                                                        SUNDAY WORLD.COM
Sunday 8th June 2014

The military junta that seized power in Thailand last month has no plans to restore civilian rule any time soon.

But it has launched an official campaign to bring back something else it says the divided nation desperately needs - happiness.

The project has involved free concerts, free food, alluring female dancers in suggestive camouflage miniskirts, even the chance to pet horses trucked into downtown Bangkok with makeshift stables and bales of hay.

The fair-like events are supposed to pave the way for reconciliation after a decade of political upheaval and coups.

But critics point out the feel-good project is being carried out alongside an entirely different junta-led campaign - an effort to stifle all opposition to the army's May 22 upheaval, which deposed a government elected by a majority of Thai voters three years ago.

"The very first question you have to ask is, whose happiness are they talking about?" said Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a Thai professor of Southeast Asian studies at Kyoto University who has refused to respond to a junta summons ordering him to return home and report to the army.
_"I'm sure this is not happiness for Thais who want a civilian government, whose rights were taken away by the coup," he said. "It's surreal. And it's ridiculous to believe this will create an environment conducive to reconciliation. That can't happen when the military is harassing, hunting and detaining its enemies."_

The aim of the project, dubbed "Return Happiness to the People" by the military, is to get people "to relax," he said. "We're trying to create an atmosphere to gain trust and build confidence. That is the plan."

Thai military junta orders citizens to

----------


## BaitongBoy

> Thai military junta orders citizens to ‘cheer up’


Can they do that?...

----------


## Humbert

> Eisenhower and then JFK said the same in Vietnam


?

er, what did they say about Vietnam?

----------


## FlyFree

> So you won't give it a chance. If the military had not put a stop to the protesting, and so forth you would have exactly what you had before nonsence, and that would absolutely defeat anything good the Thai army might try to accomplish. I agree this is not your ideal situation, but for generations Thailand has not been your ideal country. Going bac k to the same o same o would go on for ever, leaving Thailand in a state of limbo forever, if in a year there are no elections and the army has not succesfully addressed the corruption, then it will be time to look in a different direction. You people seem to think if elections were held to day magically, because you could call it a "democracy" 
> everything would be great in Thailand. I hate to burst your dream world, but I am affraid that is not the case, you would again have nothing but the same old corrupt govt., maybe worse because they would be enbolden by there victory.



There is no choice but to 'give the military a chance', is there. And that really is the crux of the matter isn't it. Choice. I'll leave it at that.

You correctly go on about same old if elections are held. However, what's the difference between giving elections a chance - there was an offer of dialogue and reform after elections - and giving the military a chance? What better chance is there that the military option won't be same old? By the very nature of the military mind, surely there's much greater chance of same old?

If there are no good options, any option doesn't magically become the best option.


And methinks you're purposely ignoring what it is all about anyway. Which is none of the above.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you won't give it a chance. If the military had not put a stop to the protesting, and so forth you would have exactly what you had before nonsence, and that would absolutely defeat anything good the Thai army might try to accomplish. I agree this is not your ideal situation, but for generations Thailand has not been your ideal country. Going bac k to the same o same o would go on for ever, leaving Thailand in a state of limbo forever, if in a year there are no elections and the army has not succesfully addressed the corruption, then it will be time to look in a different direction. You people seem to think if elections were held to day magically, because you could call it a "democracy" 
> everything would be great in Thailand. I hate to burst your dream world, but I am affraid that is not the case, you would again have nothing but the same old corrupt govt., maybe worse because they would be enbolden by there victory.
> 
> 
> ...



  I am not ignoring what this is all about, I just don't believe more of the same corrupt govt., more protesting in the streets, more people dying is going to achieve the results you desire, Thailand has been as it is for too long to be changed overnight. Change will only come after generations of excellent education, and a reshaping of the Thai. culture, you will not see that by simply getting back to the same corrupt govt.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> In the meantime I suggest you lay off drinking the politically motivated flood water, as it is addling your senses.


Utter nonsense! It'll never evolve if it isn't given the chance, do you think there is a single democracy in the world, including the first Greek democracies that began it all, that didn't/doesn't have their growing pains and obstacles? It is ALWAYS a work in progress in EVERY existing democracy and there will always be people/politicians trying to take advantage but the system needs to sort it's own out and no one from out side a given country has the right to determine how that democracy develops, your standards do not matter except in your own country.. But if there is no democracy there is no chance for one to develop..

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## FloridaBorn

> to be changed overnight.


Exactly! Which is why the military needs to stand down and let it evolve over time and do what military's are supposed to do, protect it's country from outside aggressors not play politics or the police, that's what the real police and the ELECTED officials are for ...

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## FlyFree

> I am not ignoring what this is all about, I just don't believe more of the same corrupt govt., more protesting in the streets, more people dying is going to achieve the results you desire, Thailand has been as it is for too long to be changed overnight. Change will only come after generations of excellent education, and a reshaping of the Thai. culture, you will not see that by simply getting back to the same corrupt govt.


Where you're wrong, well apart from morally, is that nothing changes because one side know they *don't* have to negotiate. They know the military will step in and they'll get their way. Like a spoilt child that has learnt it gets it's way by throwing a tantrum. So the cycle is just perpetuated, which is what you say you don't want.

Remove the coup option and there would have been negotiations. Protests and pressure till there is, not protests and pressure just for the sake of forcing their way.

That is the way out. This is just perpetuating the cycle, screwing the lid down tighter every time till the vessel can't stand it anymore.



How do you feel about the fact that you can support an idea openly but not criticise it openly? Very moral? I can't argue with you my friend. You have force on your side. For that reason I'll shaddup forthwith, not because of respect but because of force.

If you want the high ground, never argue a case that may not be criticised. There be oppression.

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## longway

^^ I understand your passion, but if its a work in progress why should it be dominated by elected oligarchs, why will it never evolve if the military interferes from time to time? 

thailand has had at least 12 'successful' coups, and was the most democratic country in SE asia and more democratic than many more countries. 

democracy can still evolve this is a historic fact. its taken several steps back in the last 10 years, but who's fault is that? its at least as much that of elected oligarchs as that of unelected ones. both hate democracy with a passion.

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## longway

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   I am not ignoring what this is all about, I just don't believe more of the same corrupt govt., more protesting in the streets, more people dying is going to achieve the results you desire, Thailand has been as it is for too long to be changed overnight. Change will only come after generations of excellent education, and a reshaping of the Thai. culture, you will not see that by simply getting back to the same corrupt govt.
> 
> 
> Where you're wrong, well apart from morally, is that nothing changes because one side know they *don't* have to negotiate. They know the military will step in and they'll get their way. Like a spoilt child that has learnt it gets it's way by throwing a tantrum. So the cycle is just perpetuated, which is what you say you don't want.
> ...


yes its true the democrats forced this coup, but without the coup option would politicians once elected be ever kept in check? how are they held in account? its not by elections, this only has a limited impact if all you do is transfer power from one set of oligarchs to another.

the military is part of this country's checks and balance, though of course its a piss poor one, but whats the alternative? in reality, not in your dream.

i disagree they are pressing the lid down tighter, they are letting out steam IMO. they have knocked some heads togther and thats a good thing. they are biased, but so what, its better that they are biased against an elected government in a country like thailand than 100% in cahoots with it, then that would indeed to screwing the lid on tighter and tighter.

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## FloridaBorn

^^Well lets try this scenario. Right now there are many Americans very disenchanted with the US POTUS, as in fairness they were with the previous one too towards the end of his terms. Is it an option to cry and whine until the military takes action and ousts him? 

No it isn't, in spite of me and many wanting him out sooner rather than later, our system of democracy does not allow our military to intervene and rightfully so, as it is with EVERY 1st world civilized government and NONE of them would exist without the opportunity to develop and work out the differences and kinks without military intervention.

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## sabang

> the same old Shiniwatra clan leading back to mass corruption


The same old Generals leading back to... what?
The same old shit. Corruption was even worse then.



> How do you suggest getting rid of the Shiniwatra clan without the strength of the army?


With or without, they cannot. Potjaman is a considerably bigger clan that Shin's btw, as are Silpa-Archa, Suthep & several others. Fantasyland.

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## longway

^^ Is the usa and Thailand directly comparable? Is Thailand a 1st world country?

Is Malaysia progressing 'democratically'? Is cambodia on its way to becoming a 1st world country? Both have elections only and no interference from teh military. who has been better off in the last 60 years, the average indian citizen or the average thai one.

You cannot just trasplant a piss poor electoral system that muddles along in a country like the USA or the UK and expect anywhere near the same results for its citizens.

I am sure you are aware of the Princeton study that shows in a 20 years period between 1981 and 2002 the opinion of the average voter carried no weight whatsoever in the policies promugated by successive governenments, its a dead end unrepresentative system.

Now put that similar system in Thailand and imagine how bad it can be for the people here, it sort of works in the USA as its a very different place. 

The kind of electoral politics you advocate is devatsting to most countries that adopt it, its hurts them bad. If Thailand is doing something different, its not necessarily bad, its just different.

It could be awful I agree, but there is someway yet before a judgement can be formulated.

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## FloridaBorn

^What you're either intentionally being obtuse to or just not getting is that all of those countries in harsher times had to go through the same growing pains to get to their destinies as democracies and the trip is STILL not over.. But, at least the military's of those countries do not interfere with the process, thereby allowing it to develop naturally, which is massive reason they've developed into something resembling fair and impartial democracies..

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## longway

> Originally Posted by &quot;RPETER65&quot;
> 
>  the same old Shiniwatra clan leading back to mass corruption
> 
> 
> The same old Generals leading back to... what?
> The same old shit. Corruption was even worse then.
> 
> 
> ...


 Actually the Yingluck government was rated the same that the 2006 military junta for corruption.   Its interesting that though the perception lessened during the Thaksin heyday, its world ranking actually decreased ie was more corrupt compared to other countries, and during abhist's government the government's perception of corruption increased, but its ranking increased ie was less corrupt compared to other countries.  yingluck's government was the first time thailand increased in its perception of corruption and also went down in the ranking at the same time. so there.  those clans are not driving the conflict, Thaksin is driving the conflict, without him alot of this will cool down, though of course the problems will remain, though Thailand could actually start dealing with its problems once this conflict is over, until then its real problems may get addressed.

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## longway

> ^What you're either intentionally being obtuse to or just not getting is that all of those countries in harsher times had to go through the same growing pains to get to their destinies as democracies and the trip is STILL not over.. But, at least the military's of those countries do not interfere with the process, thereby allowing it to develop naturally, which is massive reason they've developed into something resembling fair and impartial democracies..


Destiny? Developed naturally? And I am being obtuse?

----------


## Norton

> If Thailand is doing something different, its not necessarily bad, its just different.


Different indeed! As some wiseman once said, "Democracy comes in many forms".
This particular form not my cup of tea but perhaps it's the best Thailand can practice for now.

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## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by longway
> 
> If Thailand is doing something different, its not necessarily bad, its just different.
> 
> 
> Different indeed! As some wiseman once said, "Democracy comes in many forms".
> This particular form not my cup of tea but perhaps it's the best Thailand can practice for now.


Yes, more brief and to the point but essentially saying the same thing..

----------


## FlyFree

> Originally Posted by longway
> 
> If Thailand is doing something different, its not necessarily bad, its just different.
> 
> 
> Different indeed! As some wiseman once said, "Democracy comes in many forms".
> This particular form not my cup of tea but perhaps it's the best Thailand can practice for now.


First off, let me state categorically; I do not give a flying fuck what the Thai do that doesn't impact me directly right now as I am fully occupied trying to sort out my own substantial problems.

That said, I still have a semi-functioning brain, I think, and therefore an opinion.

Thailand has never had a democracy. In any form. How anyone can say that with a straight face I do not know.

----------


## Gerbil

> alluring female dancers in suggestive camouflage miniskirts


photos please.

----------


## longway

> Originally Posted by longway
> 
> If Thailand is doing something different, its not necessarily bad, its just different.
> 
> 
> Different indeed! As some wiseman once said, "Democracy comes in many forms".
> This particular form not my cup of tea but perhaps it's the best Thailand can practice for now.


Thats the bs you have been fed; oligarchies come in many forms too, you have a pill that you have labelled democracy and you are hell bent in shoving it down Thailand's throat, if you actually looked at the contents of the pill it would be an oligarchy and it would just be another poison.

Its been proved time and time again to be devastating to most countries that adopt electoral oligarchy, when will you ever stop being self righteous enough to stop prescribing it?

If Thailand's going to have some form of oligarchy, why does it have to be an electoral oligarchy? Whats wrong if elected and unelected oligarchs are hostile to one another and neither dominate? As long as they don't let it spill over on the streets, how on earth does it affect the average thai? Maybe he will be better off if they keep each other weak. The weaker oligarchs are the stronger the average person.

You guys don't even have a democracy in your own country, you have a 'work in progress' how on earth a US citizen with a straight face can rail against a military intervention in a country's 'destiny' is beyond me. :Kiwi: 

Have you already forgotten what you have been doing in SE asia for decades? Forget that, look at Egypt, 'not a coup', and Ukaraine, 'not a referendum' and Iraq 'Opportunity for freedom' and Afhanistan 'just coz we can'

Lets stop with this democracy charade and get real.

----------


## Waid

What form of governance should/could replace Democracy?

Are there different forms/flavours of Democracy?

----------


## longway

^ There is no democracy to replace. Just choices of various forms of  oligarchies. Stop using the word democracy please, when it applies to  Thailand or the USA or the vast majority of the world its just an empty label.

Which is the best form of oligarchy for Thailand? Should electoral oligarchs get to dominate everything?

----------


## Waid

> What form of governance should/could replace Democracy?
>  Are there different forms/flavours of Democracy?


Apologies, meant to apply the idea to all counties - not Thailand in specific.

We see major issues in Africa, where folks actually understand African Socialism - not the Democracy flowing out of Westminster.

----------


## sabang

> Lets stop with this democracy charade and get real.


Thailand has been one of the best performing economies in the world under a democracy. Do you think it will be under a military junta? Perhaps we should ask the Burmese.

Anyway, this was in the truest sense of the word a 'military' (or tigers) coup- naturally we are not being told the real reason, the restoring order mantra is just a sop.

----------


## longway

^ Its not a choice between a military junta and an electoral oligarchy is it? Its how the power is divvied up between oligarchs once elections have been held. Stop using the word democracy - its a lie.

----------


## sabang

> Its not a choice between a military junta and an electoral oligarchy is it?


It's no choice at all right now- but given the choice, corrupt oligarchs squabbling in a parliamentary system is far preferable to military autocracy- just compare the results. A major problem with Thailand has always been transparency- and (hence) accountability. That has just deteriorated significantly, due both to the dissolution of parliament and draconian media censorship, not to mention intimidation and stifling of dissenting voices. 

Quixotically though, it has resulted in the people of Thailand talking much more about 'the situation', and Thailands dirty laundry being well aired internationally. In one night of cable TV viewing down in Pattaya, I saw Giles Ungaporn & Bob Amsterdam interviewed on Australia network, a special called 'Thailands coups' (or close) on France 24, and another special on another news channel- and they were quite candid. That is probably a good thing, although I doubt the woefully misnamed 'royalists' agree.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> What form of governance should/could replace Democracy?
> 
> Are there different forms/flavours of Democracy?


Ermm Britain has one of them.. So the answer would be yes..

----------


## longway

> Originally Posted by longway
> 
>  Its not a choice between a military junta and an electoral oligarchy is it?
> 
> 
> It's no choice at all right now- but given the choice, corrupt oligarchs squabbling in a parliamentary system is far preferable to military autocracy- just compare the results. A major problem with Thailand has always been transparency- and (hence) accountability. That has just deteriorated significantly, due both to the dissolution of parliament and draconian media censorship, not to mention intimidation and stifling of dissenting voices. 
> 
> Quixotically though, it has resulted in the people of Thailand talking much more about 'the situation', and Thailands dirty laundry being well aired internationally. In one night of cable TV viewing down in Pattaya, I saw Giles Ungaporn & Bob Amsterdam interviewed on Australia network, a special called 'Thailands coups' (or close) on France 24, and another special on another news channel- and they were quite candid. That is probably a good thing, although I doubt the woefully misnamed 'royalists' agree.


Its not a choice between a autocracy and an oligarchy, its just a squabble between oligarchs played out in the streets and now the unelected oligarchs have played their trump, parliamentary squabbles will be back soon enough, all that will have changed is that elected oligarchs will not be as powerful as before, and unelected oligarchs will be more powerful than now. 

Is this is this such a big deal for the average Thai?

and as you say thais are talking more, isnt this far more important than the ludicrous so called red/yellow divide, neither of whom represent anything but a tiny minority of thais.

----------


## RPETER65

> ^^Well lets try this scenario. Right now there are many Americans very disenchanted with the US POTUS, as in fairness they were with the previous one too towards the end of his terms. Is it an option to cry and whine until the military takes action and ousts him? 
> 
> No it isn't, in spite of me and many wanting him out sooner rather than later, our system of democracy does not allow our military to intervene and rightfully so, as it is with EVERY 1st world civilized government and NONE of them would exist without the opportunity to develop and work out the differences and kinks without military intervention.



In America it's called impeachment.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by longway
> 
>  Its not a choice between a military junta and an electoral oligarchy is it?
> 
> 
> It's no choice at all right now- but given the choice, corrupt oligarchs squabbling in a parliamentary system is far preferable to military autocracy- just compare the results. A major problem with Thailand has always been transparency- and (hence) accountability. That has just deteriorated significantly, due both to the dissolution of parliament and draconian media censorship, not to mention intimidation and stifling of dissenting voices. 
> 
> Quixotically though, it has resulted in the people of Thailand talking much more about 'the situation', and Thailands dirty laundry being well aired internationally. In one night of cable TV viewing down in Pattaya, I saw Giles Ungaporn & Bob Amsterdam interviewed on Australia network, a special called 'Thailands coups' (or close) on France 24, and another special on another news channel- and they were quite candid. That is probably a good thing, although I doubt the woefully misnamed 'royalists' agree.



You talk as though you think Thailand will remain under control of the military forever, do you really believe this.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> ^^Well lets try this scenario. Right now there are many Americans very disenchanted with the US POTUS, as in fairness they were with the previous one too towards the end of his terms. Is it an option to cry and whine until the military takes action and ousts him? 
> 
> No it isn't, in spite of me and many wanting him out sooner rather than later, our system of democracy does not allow our military to intervene and rightfully so, as it is with EVERY 1st world civilized government and NONE of them would exist without the opportunity to develop and work out the differences and kinks without military intervention.
> 
> 
> 
> In America it's called impeachment.


Ermm no it's not, no where close to the same thing, even impeachment does not mean the president HAS to leave office, nor is it in any way so simplistic to impeach a president, has to be for high crimes or treason, etc... Partly why it's NEVER happened, though Billy boy came close, lucky he had the majority in congress at the time..

Special attention: 

Should any one of the Articles of Impeachment be approved by a simple majority vote, the President will be "impeached." *However, being impeached is sort of like being indicted of a crime. There still has to be a trial, which is where the US Senate comes in.*

Process of Impeachment of the President of the United States

----------


## pseudolus

^ relax, FB, its not as if you are Thai, and have any dog in this race.

----------


## terry57

> You talk as though you think Thailand will remain under control of the military forever, do you really believe this.



Exactly mate,

Once the Military finish doing their thing elections will be held and it will be back to Democracy again. 

Then when the new government gets to corrupt we will have another Coup.   :Smile:  

Hope they close down Silom road and occupy Lumpin park again..  

I really enjoyed that.   :spam2:  

Some posters seem to think this is first time Thailand has experienced this action. 

Jesus, its friggin normal fare for this joint and certainly nothing to get excited about. 

Rather nice to see a few arses getting kicked especially down in Pattaya.

----------


## terry57

> Our system of Democracy does not allow our military to intervene and rightfully so, as it is with EVERY 1st world civilized Government..




Mate, I can truly pick up what you're putting down and you are correct.

Thing is, we are dealing with Thailand here and it does not matter what one thinks or how things should be,  Thailand marches to its own drum.

Its a third Rd world Monkey house with some real good first world infrastructure for Farangs to play in.  

Hence why I don't get involved with their politics but merely revel in the good things Thailand has to offer the farang with a few bucks in his pocket. 

Actually, the Thai political situation is a giggle if viewed from afar.  

I was down stairs in our local market today, one lady is a die in the arse Red and was mouthing off to a lady who I know is Yellow.

It was funny as fuck,  I could see the Yellow ladies mind ticking over,  she never utter a word except only nodded at the Red nutter whilst smiling.  :Smile:  

Such is Thai politics, its all unadulterated bullshit innit. 

The losers are the ones who take it all so seriously.

----------


## terry57

> Thailand has been one of the best performing economies in the world under a democracy.
> 
>  Do you think it will be under a military junta? Perhaps we should ask the Burmese.



Sabang, you seem to be a decent guy but your Political views are always at the extreme edge of reality. 

Here we have you comparing Thai's Junta with the Burmese situation.  :Confused: 

So totally removed from a reasonable post its not worthy of a reply.

----------


## pseudolus

> Here we have you comparing Thai's Junta with the Burmese situation. 
> 
> So totally removed from a reasonable post its not worthy of a reply.


Indeed. Seems to forget that most of the events in Thailand that are reminiscent of the Myanmar junta has come at the hands of Thaksin and his daughter.  :Aussie:

----------


## Evilbaz

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> Here we have you comparing Thai's Junta with the Burmese situation. 
> 
> So totally removed from a reasonable post its not worthy of a reply.
> 
> 
> Indeed. Seems to forget that most of the events in Thailand that are reminiscent of the Myanmar junta has come at the hands of Thaksin and his daughter.



Thaksin's daughter? Which one?

Thaksin Shinawatra
PoliticianThaksin  Shinawatra is a Thai business tycoon turned politician. He founded  Advanced Info Service, Thailand's most successful mobile phone operator. WikipediaBorn: July 26, 1949 (age 64), San Kamphaeng DistrictSpouse: Potjaman Na Pombejra (m. 19802008)Siblings: Yingluck Shinawatra, Yaowapha WongsawatChildren: Panthongtae Shinawatra, Peathongtarn Shinawatra, Pintongtha KunakornwongNationality: Thai, Montenegrin, NicaraguanEducation: Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School, Sam Houston State University, Eastern Kentucky University

----------


## pseudolus

> Siblings: Yingluck Shinawatra,


That one

----------


## 9999

> Nationality: Thai, Montenegrin, Nicaraguan


Really?

----------


## pseudolus

> Originally Posted by Evilbaz
> 
> Nationality: Thai, Montenegrin, Nicaraguan
> 
> 
> Really?


Amazing how Mr Thai suddenly waters down his Thainess to stay on the run, and hide his ill gotten gains lol

----------


## rebbu

The Norwegian company behind Thailand's No. 2 telecom confirmed it shut down Facebook access to its customers late last month at the order of the military junta.

An executive with Telenor Group of Norway said the company blocked service to 10 million DTAC users in Thailand at the order of Thai telecom officials on May 28, one week after the junta seized power, according to Bangkok Post.

According to a report in Norwegian media, Telenor Asia Vice President Tor Odland admitted the company was put in a difficult position of upholding international human rights expectations versus complying with Thai regulations. 

"There is no doubt that such cases put a mobile operator under Telenor in a demanding situation. On the one hand we relate to international frameworks such as the UN guidelines on human rights and business," Odland wrote. "On the other hand, we have that licensee's duty to deal with local laws."

Facing criticism for the move at home, Telenor "lamented the impact of the restriction could get for the people of Thailand," Odland added, according to a translated version of his comments.

At about 3pm on May 28, Faebook became unavailable throughout Thailand for about 30 minutes. Although permanent secretary of the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology Surachai Srisarakam first confirmed it was blocked on the junta's order, a junta spokesman denied that and blamed it on a technical failure.




DTAC owner: Facebook blocked on order of junta | Coconuts Bangkok

----------


## pseudolus

> DTAC owner: Facebook blocked on order of junta


No it wasn't. If it was, they must have made a special exclusion for my Missus.

----------


## Dandyhole

Well it's pretty conclusive now that thai fascism is alive and kicking, and rabid amongst the Military Junta Dictatorship and associates.

----------


## Necron99

> Well it's pretty conclusive now that thai fascism is alive and kicking, and rabid amongst the Military Junta Dictatorship and associates.


Why? Is someone being referred to as "glorious leader"?
Are the trains running on time?

----------


## Dandyhole

^ and associates

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You talk as though you think Thailand will remain under control of the military forever, do you really believe this.
> 
> ...



I also enjoyed visiting the protesters at several locations, very nice group of people.

----------


## terry57

^

I'm sure many of the Red shirts are nice people as well,  its only the Extremists on both sides who really stir the shit and excite the following mobs.

That's why the punters who pick a side and then call all of that side out as being evil are so foked up.

----------


## longway

> Originally Posted by sabang
> 
> 
> 
> Thailand has been one of the best performing economies in the world under a democracy.
> 
>  Do you think it will be under a military junta? Perhaps we should ask the Burmese.
> 
> 
> ...


This kind of hysterical rhetoric is all they have really.

I know its not directly related to Thailand or even the USA, but have a look at this link: The French are right: tear up public debt




> The neoliberal argument in favour of austerity policies claims that  debt is due to unreasonable public spending levels; that societies in  general, and popular classes in particular, live above their means.This is plain false.


The real assault to democracies is taking place in your home countries and the big lies are being told there too, not in Thailand. You guys think Thais are lied too?  :smiley laughing: 

You, and I am looking especially at US citizens who cant stand the military invervening in Thailand and think they have given Iraq an 'opportunity for freedom' to think carefully where the real problems lie.

Can it be in a country who's electoral oligarchy is still a 'work in progress' for more than 200 years? Please fix your own 'democracy' before trying to 'fix' thailand's.

----------


## sabang

> hysterical rhetoric


 :rofl:  OK, Ill revise it :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): -




> Thailand has been one of the best performing economies in the world under a democracy.
> Do you think it will be under a military junta? Perhaps we should ask the Laos.


Anyway, I see this has become yer basic 'support the coup' spam thread. OK, the generals glorious self penned national anthem was a work of sheer brilliance, beloved by the great mass of the people- indeed, previously thought within the capability of only one man. The criminalising of the three fingered boy scout salute has no doubt been met with a collective sigh of relief by the Boy Scout Association, the Village Scouts, and their sponsors.

----------


## Butterfly

> Arisman changes his tune.


what a 2 faced coward,

----------


## Butterfly

> Thailand has been one of the best performing economies in the world under a democracy.


it coincided with global growth, even Burma would have had the same performance if it wasn't for the US crippling embargo

Singapore, which is not a Democracy, and Laos, which is also not a Democracy, had substantial growth during that time

----------


## Necron99

> The criminalising of the three fingered boy scout salute has no doubt been met with a collective sigh of relief by the Boy Scout Association, the Village Scouts, and their sponsors.


The three fingered sign is a covert show of support from one of the worlds larges paedo groups for Yingluck. She wears their medal on her dress uniform.

It's true, look it up,

----------


## sabang

Beware, July 1st is Thailands National Scout day. Many dangerous insurgents will hit the streets.




Still, fresh from their triumphal campaign against blank A4 paper, I am sure Thailand's brave hansum soldiers will rise to meet the challenge.
_Rumors of the possible illegal assembly of blank pieces of paper spread on social media over the weekend, leading up to the massive response by army troops and police brigades. As of 10am Sunday, no fewer than 600 soldiers and 450 riot-armed policemen, supported by 50 vehicles, were present at key locations throughout the capital, including Victory Monument, Democracy Monument, Rajprasong, Lumpini Park, and a dozen large shopping malls._
http://notthenation.com/2014/06/army...t-of-a4-paper/

----------


## aging one

Wait, Wait, 

How many fingers are in that salute? Count now, and be sure.

----------


## RPETER65

> ^
> 
> I'm sure many of the Red shirts are nice people as well,  its only the Extremists on both sides who really stir the shit and excite the following mobs.
> 
> That's why the punters who pick a side and then call all of that side out as being evil are so foked up.



You are right, I have friends who are red shirts and also good people.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

^They're all lovely people. It's the fvckers behind the curtain trying to push them into a divide and conquer scenario that need to be dealt with.

----------


## tomta

> You are right, I have friends who are red shirts and also good people.


Good people eh? But you don't seem to consider them good enough to have their electoral choices respected.

----------


## Butterfly

the Reds and Yellows are fools that can be easily manipulated,

the solution is to put both groups back into their cage, where they will be more happy

having the Army run Thailand for the next few years is going to be interesting,

----------


## Troy

Just imagine if Thaksin had been man enough to go to jail.

Imagine if he had donated all the money the Courts later took, on providing some sort of infrastructure that would last a century and beyond.

Imagine if Suthep, instead of leading protests, put his money into the theatre and TV with humorous parodies showing how incompetent the Yingluck Government was.

Imagine if people laughed at the leaders for being idiots rather than hiding behind a rent-a-mob.

That's the difference between a great country and a wannabe....  

That's the difference between Betty and Terry, Sabang and Albert, the ones that back people and not sheeple...

----------


## longway

> Wait, Wait, 
> 
> How many fingers are in that salute? Count now, and be sure.


One is blowing a whistle. Its a good way to stop Thailand becoming just like North Korea. 

Blow on a whistle and do the 3 fingered salute, the mixed message will blow our great dictator's mind and Thailand will be free again.  :UK:

----------


## BaitongBoy

> Anyway, I see this has become yer basic 'support the coup' spam thread.  OK, the generals glorious self penned national anthem was a work of  sheer brilliance, beloved by the great mass of the people- indeed,  previously thought within the capability of only one man. The  criminalising of the three fingered boy scout salute has no doubt been  met with a collective sigh of relief by the Boy Scout Association, the  Village Scouts, and their sponsors.


Sounds like satire and sarcasm rolled nicely into one...

----------


## thailazer

Learned a new word this morning....   "gerontocratic."   Michael Peel used it in his Financial Times article Salute to the Past.

----------


## thaimeme

> Wait, Wait, 
> 
> How many fingers are in that salute? Count now, and be sure.


Perfectly acceptable if referenced to para-military outfits.

----------


## sabang

Economically speaking, the generals certainly have their work cut out-

Investment Applications Down 42% in Thailand
Tourist Arrivals For May Down 11 Percent
300,000 Trucks Idle After Economic Slowdown

----------


## leemo

If you had supreme power and wanted part of some action, wouldn't you clean and prepare it using public funds and functions, before making your move?

----------


## AjaP

Heres the latest update on whats happening in Thailand at the present time, FYI.

Thailand Political Situation  TCEB Update 11 June 2014, 17:00 hrs. (GMT+7):

The National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) announced the lifting of nighttime curfew in 17 provinces and 15 districts in three provinces with effective as of 10 June 2014.

The provinces are Kanchanaburi, Ratchaburi, Tak, Rayong, Chanthaburi, Sukhothai, Mae Hong Son, Uttaradit, Phrae, Nan, Nakhon Phanom, Sakon Nakhon, Roi Et, Loei, Surin, Trang and Satun.

The 15 districts are Sadao and Mueang districts in Songkhla, six districts including Ko Kood in Trat and seven districts including Kaeng Krachan in Petchaburi.

The 20 areas joined the existing 10 major tourist destinations currently enjoying curfew-free, which are Phuket, Ko Samui, Pattaya City, Hua Hin, Cha-am, Krabi, Phang-nga, Hat Yai, Ko Chang and Ko Phangan (including Ko Tao).

Full report at TATNews dot ORG

----------


## pseudolus

Interesting. 2 posts, both linking to TAT stories. Do you work for TAT per chance?

----------


## longway

The brutal dictator of NorthKoreaBurmaLaostan (formerly known as Thailand) Herr General Fieldreichfuherer Sheikitallabout Prayuth God of war Khomeni  :yerman:   has decided to let Thais watch the world cup for free.

Junta to splurge on World Cup | Bangkok Post: news





> Football fans are likely to be able to watch all 64 World Cup  matches on free-to-air TV after the military junta intervened in a  dispute over broadcast rights.


Oh the horror, democracy is at stake, let loose the boy scouts.

----------


## Thormaturge

> Just imagine if Thaksin had been man enough to go to jail.
> 
> Imagine if he had donated all the money the Courts later took, on providing some sort of infrastructure that would last a century and beyond.
> 
> Imagine if Suthep, instead of leading protests, put his money into the theatre and TV with humorous parodies showing how incompetent the Yingluck Government was.
> 
> Imagine if people laughed at the leaders for being idiots rather than hiding behind a rent-a-mob.
> 
> That's the difference between a great country and a wannabe....  
> ...


 .... and imagine if the vast sum of money wasted on lawyers and court hearings had been spent on something useful.  Anything, you  know, like upgrading Thailand's rural dirt tracks.  ahem.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> The brutal dictator of NorthKoreaBurmaLaostan (formerly known as Thailand) Herr General Fieldreichfuherer Sheikitallabout Prayuth God of war Khomeni   has decided to let Thais watch the world cup for free.
> 
> Junta to splurge on World Cup | Bangkok Post: news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oldest trick in the book innit? Very silly and naive of you not to see through the intent of placating and distracting the masses with treats, a trick EVERY parent knows well  ::chitown:: ..

----------


## Mr Lick

Giving the people what they want is certainly a trait that is often absent in many politicians, (until election time that is, and then only in small amounts).  :Smile:

----------


## Necron99

So he's paid the rice farmers and now given everyone the WC.

Bread and circuses?

----------


## Waid

> Sabang sagely spake thus:
> Economically speaking, the generals certainly have their work cut out-
> 
> Investment Applications Down 42% in Thailand
> Tourist Arrivals For May Down 11 Percent
> 300,000 Trucks Idle After Economic Slowdown


I would wait & see before spending time & money investing in Thailand. Many of its neighbours are growing at a clipping pace. Even Malaysia is doing well at ~ 6.2% - at least they have long-range goals. As Sabang mentioned, the average growth rate for the region is ~ 7%.

Thailand has done itself no favours - especially in these tough economic times, for most. Very sad for folks who have genuine interests in the region, but - this is a fact of life.

The recent coup and its consequences will undervalue Western-owned businesses in the region, I'd think. For instance, I know of a particular operation up for sale for some years now. How will the potential buyers view the recent political events?

Political mindset changes would be culturally-driven. This can take many years to smooth out & stabilise - possibly 15-20 years - possibly longer?

----------


## Butterfly

> Economically speaking, the generals certainly have their work cut out-
> 
> Investment Applications Down 42% in Thailand
> Tourist Arrivals For May Down 11 Percent
> 300,000 Trucks Idle After Economic Slowdown


how is that relevant to the political debate and Democracy in Thailand ? 

none, whatsoever

if you are only concerned about economics, then you should stop pontificating on Democracy as it was a magic formula for economic success, because it is not.

----------


## Butterfly

> The brutal dictator of NorthKoreaBurmaLaostan (formerly known as Thailand) Herr General Fieldreichfuherer Sheikitallabout Prayuth God of war Khomeni   has decided to let Thais watch the world cup for free.
> 
> Junta to splurge on World Cup | Bangkok Post: news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


damn, can we have a coup over in Europe too ? here we have to pay to watch the games !!!

----------


## Butterfly

> So he's paid the rice farmers and now given everyone the WC.
> 
> Bread and circuses?


a nice change from the corrupt village fund and free AIS mobiles

----------


## Butterfly

> I have personal experience with the village fund and have not seen any corruption.


I highly doubt that, maybe you weren't looking hard enough or didn't know where to look




> Post some links with your accusations.


right, to be true it must be on the Internet  :rofl: 




> The coup leaders seem to be the ones giving the freebies at the moment.


oh the crime !!! next they will be giving free healthcare

----------


## Waid

> economics growth is not even part of a credible Democracy debate. If you  base your arguments on Economics to debate Democracy, then you lost the  debate already and you are simply being "American" if you get my drift.


A stable country allows a stable economy to grow & strengthen.

To attempt to decouple the two, is not reasonable.

----------


## Butterfly

> A stable country allows a stable economy to grow & strengthen.


and a dictatorship certainly does make a country stable, at least for some time,

too many examples of dictatorships being successful economies, see China, Russia, Singapore etc...




> To attempt to decouple the two, is not reasonable.


maybe in your parallel universe, or if you are American and believe in fairy tales

----------


## Butterfly

and I would like to add that economic prosperity always leads to a voluntary dictatorship as it's perceived to be the best regime to "maintain" economic stability.

again too many examples, the USA being a country leading itself to a dictatorship, and will become one eventually, just a question of time

----------


## Waid

> Originally Posted by Waid
> 
> A stable country allows a stable economy to grow & strengthen.
> 
> 
> and a dictatorship certainly does make a country stable, at least for some time,
> 
> too many examples of dictatorships being successful economies, see China, Russia, Singapore etc...


Those appear to be long-term dictatorships. Investors initially take a poor view of the change, then, over time, as confidence builds up, firm up their investment/risk position.

With Thailand, there is continual instability - short burst of irregular Democracy, interspersed with Dictatorships - some benign, others brutal.

Much like a highly volatile cocktail at the moment.




> To attempt to decouple the two, is not reasonable.


You are most insulting, sir. Does not contribute to the discussion at all.

----------


## leemo

I suspect this junta has more serious matters to consider than installing democracy, fixing the economy, or even that classic about making people happy with love and peace.

----------


## longway

> Sabang sagely spake thus:
> Economically speaking, the generals certainly have their work cut out-
> 
> Investment Applications Down 42% in Thailand
> Tourist Arrivals For May Down 11 Percent
> 300,000 Trucks Idle After Economic Slowdown
> 
> 
> I would wait & see before spending time & money investing in Thailand. Many of its neighbours are growing at a clipping pace. Even Malaysia is doing well at ~ 6.2% - at least they have long-range goals. As Sabang mentioned, the average growth rate for the region is ~ 7%.
> ...


While various nitwits have been drinking the kool aid about seccesion and civil war and generaly talking the country down I have been buying thai stocks hand over fist over the last 6 months and they have done extremely well.

Thailand is in a down cycle just now, its the perfect time to buy.

----------


## longway

> Originally Posted by longway
> 
> 
> The brutal dictator of NorthKoreaBurmaLaostan (formerly known as Thailand) Herr General Fieldreichfuherer Sheikitallabout Prayuth God of war Khomeni   has decided to let Thais watch the world cup for free.
> 
> Junta to splurge on World Cup | Bangkok Post: news
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the old its all about 'democracy' is a pretty old trick too. nothing  that has taken place in the last 10 years is even remotely connected  with improving democracy or reducing corruption, its amazing to me that  people even bring democracy into the argument, leave it out, its not  relevant.

as long as neither side fully dominate, the average somchai will do ok out of it. this is just a transitional phase where they iron out the kinks, and now somchai wants a piece thats not a bad thing imo

Obviously its just to keep the masses distracted. With the World Cup, arisman crooning songs on reconciliation and happy endings throughout the land, its been well played so far.

The coming months will see if they go off the rails or not, but its too early to make any calls now IMO.

I wouldn't want want them around longer than an absolute maximum of 2 years, its important they get elections going again and the cynically driven 'protests' finally come to an end.

----------


## nigelandjan

It,ll be great after the elections , if the red crew win then the yellows will all fall in line and if the yellow brigade win the reds will all fall in line and truly accept democracy.

There will be no nastiness and sweetness and light will reign in the kingdom forever .

 Until ………………………………………………………..

----------


## Shrinking Violet

russia a successful economy?! surely you jest? without their vast natural minerals they would be fucked. putin has done nothing in his time to diversify their economy or tackle corruption or the brain drain which is only going to increase.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by Waid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Sabang sagely spake thus:
> ...


The first couple of those six months wasn't very bright for buyers, but then it turned good.

----------


## leemo

> It,ll be great after the elections , if the red crew win then the yellows will all fall in line and if the yellow brigade win the reds will all fall in line and truly accept democracy.
> 
> There will be no nastiness and sweetness and light will reign in the kingdom forever .
> 
>  Until ..


Hole in one, your shout.

----------


## zygote1

> and I would like to add that economic prosperity always leads to a voluntary dictatorship as it's perceived to be the best regime to "maintain" economic stability.
> 
> again too many examples, the USA being a country leading itself to a dictatorship, and will become one eventually, just a question of time


Is that so? Large countries that suffered dictatorships have historically been characterized by stunted economies. Chile, Peru,  etc. 
Greece, Portugal and Spain were undeveloped and backwards due to their long periods of dictatorship. Their economies only grew once the removal of the yoke of tyranny was removed. It is laughable that you offer up Russia as an example. Its economy is dependant upon energy exports.  China is a country teetering on implosion with a bubble economy. In any case, the Russians would argue that they are not a  dictatorship, nor would Singapore.

----------


## Butterfly

> Large countries that suffered dictatorships have historically been characterized by stunted economies. Chile, Peru, etc.
> Greece, Portugal and Spain were undeveloped and backwards due to their long periods of dictatorship.


you are quoting countries that were involved in heavy fightings and wars, hardly peaceful dictatorships. Peaceful dictatorships are not exceptions, and they will promote economic growth better than any other systems.




> Their economies only grew once the removal of the yoke of tyranny was removed.


the economies grew because there was a return to peace and some kind of national reconciliation. Again, you are confused in the serial correlation of events.




> It is laughable that you offer up Russia as an example. Its economy is dependant upon energy exports.


Russia is a very rich country in Natural Resources, and it's an economic miracle after 50 years of dreadful communist policies. Being an exporter of those resources doesn't take away the economic miracle that happened internally and the dramatic changes it had over the life of their middle class and their rich elite. Again, you are confusing all kind of concepts here.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

Who is Giles Ungpakorn?

Sounds like a snide essex double glazing salesman.

Why the Thai name?

----------


## zygote1

> It,ll be great after the elections , if the red crew win then the yellows will all fall in line and if the yellow brigade win the reds will all fall in line and truly accept democracy.
> 
> There will be no nastiness and sweetness and light will reign in the kingdom forever .
> 
>  Until ..


IMO the attempt in "Suthep country" to curb the transport cartel, rein in the illegal workers, push back some of the illegal construction etc., while getting good press is hurting the Suthep fundraisers hard.  Some of Suthep's strongest supporters in the Phuket region were drawn from the group now being targeted. As they see their lucrative incomes pinched, they have less money to contribute  to the hard core Suthep faction.  They'll be pining for the good old days when they could blackmail and bully the PTP soon enough.

----------


## zygote1

> Who is Giles Ungpakorn?
> 
> Sounds like a snide essex double glazing salesman.
> 
> Why the Thai name?


Because he is Thai and his parents gave him that name?  Would you prefer he now call himself Heinrich Battenburg or Jamir Mbumpo?
In any case, he is a man who's ideas struck fear in the hearts of Thailand's ruling class.

----------


## thaimeme

> Who is Giles Ungpakorn?
> 
> Sounds like a snide essex double glazing salesman.
> 
> Why the Thai name?


Oh dear, Al. You need to get out more. Certainly one who promotes himself as understanding Thai Affairs and contemporary Thai historiography. How embarrassing.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> he is Thai


 :rofl:

----------


## sabang

> Originally Posted by zygote1
> 
> he is Thai


As is Mark.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Was interesting watching/listening to Prayuth's latest broadcast tonight. It was very comprehensive. To the point that, as the English subtitles were so well written, it made me wonder if perhaps the speech was originally written in English, then translated into Thai for him. That raises a question whether a foreign spin company is involved like Hill and Knowlton or another. Maybe not.

What I noticed though was near the end he said we're not influenced by foreign countries (Thang Prathet) but that wasn't translated. No mention of it. 

Anyway seems the army are here for a while.. No "Lipton" for some time..

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

^^At least he looks Thai (even if he sounds like Mr Bean on acid)
 :Smile:

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> That raises a question whether a foreign spin company is involved like Hill and Knowlton or another. Maybe not.


With the love for football it was more likely William Hill  :Smile: 

Seriously, shit ye not, today I went to the police station to pay a fine for riding on the pavement and get my license back. I went past the first hurdle and when I went to the second, paid the fine, stood to leave beckoning for my license - dude looked at me sternly and said sit down.

I sat nervously as he said to me "What country do you come from?"

I bricked it for a second and thought that Martial Law was about to fuck my day up and looking him dead in the face said

"England"

He bust a big grin and said

"Tomorrow 5am - First Game!"

I chipped.

 :Smile:

----------


## sabang

Interesting article, the view from Burma -

*A Thai Junta Vs a Burmese Junta—Spot the Differences*

When the Thai military staged a coup and replaced a democratically elected government last month, ordinary people in Burma and Burmese working in Thailand reacted with a sense of bemusement.

The neighbors had traded places: the former military-run pariah state is being embraced by the West for its democratic transition, while a long-standing United States ally had come under the boot of the Thai army, which has come in for strong international criticism.

Soon, a sense of irony took over among the Burmese, leading to jokes on social media.

When the Thai junta named itself the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO)—conjuring up memories of Burma’s former State Peace and Development Council (SPDC)—and it began an Orwellian-style “happiness campaign” with free dance shows, meals and haircuts, the Burmese were struck with a mix of hilarity and disbelief.

Thailand was a stable nation and one of the strongest democratic and free countries in Southeast Asia. The kingdom has relatively free press, influential civil society groups and is actively engaged with Western nations and its Asian neighbors. And of course, it is Asia’s most popular international tourist destination.

After the initial reactions among the Burmese wore off, however, concerns over the Thai coup grew. No one wants to see Thailand’s democracy fail, while the country’s sinks into political and economic stagnation.

Until recently, Burmese politicians and activist fleeing repression in their country sought refuge in Thailand and enjoyed its democratic space and respect for human rights; from Thailand they staged media and political campaign against military rule in Burma.

Ethnic armies were based along the Thai-Burma border and set up offices and businesses there, while buying arms from the black market in Thailand to fight their insurgency against Burma’s military-run government.

Some recent Thai media suggested that Thailand’s populist, deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra might set up a democratic movement in exile in neighboring Cambodia.

Some Burmese colleagues of mine, who spent many years in exile in Thailand for their democratic activism, could not help joking and said the movement would need to find some generous sponsors, preferably Western powers. In jest, they said the Thai opposition now needs leaders who, like Aung San Suu Kyi or U Win Tin, would be able to put up with many years of detention, house arrest or torture.

There is great unease, nonetheless, among Burmese democracy and human rights activists over the Thai coup: when Thailand, after all its past democratic success, can regress to military rule, how long will Burma’s road to genuine democracy be?

Jimmy, a leader of the 88 Generation Peace and Open Society who spent many years behind bars as a political prisoner said, “Thailand is a leading country in Southeast Asia. I don’t want a coup in Thailand as it is a model for other Asean countries.

“[The coup] shows how important national reconciliation is. If this does not succeed, the army will always be involved in Thai politics,” he said, underlining the need for reconciliation in Burma.

Jimmy added that President Thein Sein, who has publicly pledged to lead Burma through a transition to democracy, should respond. “Thein Sein is trumpeting Burma as heading towards democracy—he can’t remain silent.”

The latter is, however, exactly what Burma’s reformist government appears to have done.

In another ironic twist, the first visit by Thai junta foreign affairs officials was to Burma, of all places, to explain the coup to the former military men that still run the country. Thai officials asked Burma, in its role as chair of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean), to help tell the outside world “the truth” about the Thai coup.

In keeping with Asean’s long-standing policy of non-interference in domestic affairs (and not embarrassing) of its members, Burma’s government refrained from making critical comments about the Thai coup.

Surprisingly, Hla Swe, a former junta colonel and now a lawmaker from Burma’s ruling Union Solidarity and Development Party, was more critical and said, “A coup is not good.”

The Burmese are also keenly aware of the differences between military rule in Thailand and the former military regime and current government in their country.

The Thai army has carried out more than a dozen coups in past decades, but always relinquished power to a civilian government after a number of years. The Thai military also retains respect among large swathes of the Thai people.

Nan Khin Htwe Myint, a politician with the National League for Democracy (NLD), said, “In Thailand, once the country’s situation returns to normal, the army gives power back to the people. In Burma, it’s been different.”

The Burma Army staged two coups, one in 1962 and one in 1988, and ruled the country for more than half a century. The military is hated and mocked by most people in Burma after the generals brutally suppressed dissent and ran the economy of the resource-rich country into the ground.

Today, many Burmese still feel that the country is under control of military men and ex-generals in the government and Parliament—in spite of the “sweeping reforms” celebrated by Western governments. The despised military-drafted Constitution gives the army direct control over a quarter of Parliament and other controls over government.

The Burmese continue to loathe the retired and active generals, and their cronies, who control most assets in Burma and have positioned themselves to reap the benefits of the economic boom that was kick-started by the democratic transition.

We are now stuck with the Burma Army’s “disciplined democracy”—the generals simply decided to take off their uniforms in order to continue to run the country, while mass murderers and former coup makers enjoy impunity and live in lavish compounds.

Let’s hope that the Thai army will soon return to its barracks, and that Burma’s military will pick up on the idea and leave Burmese politics once and for all.
A Thai Junta Vs a Burmese Junta

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer
> 
> That raises a question whether a foreign spin company is involved like Hill and Knowlton or another. Maybe not.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, shit ye not, today I went to the police station to pay a fine for riding on the pavement and get my license back. I went past the first hurdle and when I went to the second, paid the fine, stood to leave beckoning for my license - dude looked at me sternly and said sit down.
> 
> I sat nervously as he said to me "What country do you come from?"
> ...


Nice one. Copper sounds fair too

----------


## leemo

> ...When the Thai junta named itself the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO)conjuring up memories of Burmas former State Peace and Development Council (SPDC)and it began an Orwellian-style happiness campaign with free dance shows, meals and haircuts, the Burmese were struck with a mix of hilarity and disbelief...


They forget the 'Peoples' Democratic' suffix. PDNCPO is quite a mouthful, but oozes a tactful consideration for people and country.

----------


## Exit Strategy

Interesting read, thanks. Was in Burma recently and comparing to now in Thailand REMOVED and REMOVED. I REMOVED and REMOVED then ice cream, Sizzler had REMOVED sauce. 





> Interesting article, the view from Burma -
> 
> *A Thai Junta Vs a Burmese JuntaSpot the Differences*
> 
> When the Thai military staged a coup and replaced a democratically elected government last month, ordinary people in Burma and Burmese working in Thailand reacted with a sense of bemusement.
> 
> The neighbors had traded places: the former military-run pariah state is being embraced by the West for its democratic transition, while a long-standing United States ally had come under the boot of the Thai army, which has come in for strong international criticism.
> 
> Soon, a sense of irony took over among the Burmese, leading to jokes on social media.
> ...

----------


## thaimeme

> Interesting article, the view from Burma -
> 
> *A Thai Junta Vs a Burmese JuntaSpot the Differences*
> 
> When the Thai military staged a coup and replaced a democratically elected government last month, ordinary people in Burma and Burmese working in Thailand reacted with a sense of bemusement.
> 
> The neighbors had traded places: the former military-run pariah state is being embraced by the West for its democratic transition, while a long-standing United States ally had come under the boot of the Thai army, which has come in for strong international criticism.
> 
> Soon, a sense of irony took over among the Burmese, leading to jokes on social media.
> ...


Interesting find, Sabang. Thought provoking - as there really has been no difference between the two for quite a time now. Today, the comparatives are striking.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Because he is Thai and his parents gave him that name? Would you prefer he now call himself Heinrich Battenburg or Jamir Mbumpo?


 :rofl: 

Where is the curfew still being enforced? Just Chiang Mai and BKK?

----------


## FloridaBorn

> There have been 12 coups in recent history in Thailand. But the latest - three weeks ago - was the first in the social media age. The military rulers now in charge are monitoring social media closely - meaning those who oppose the new regime have had to get inventive.


Really? 2006 was THAT long ago???  :rofl:   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Sumbitch

Erm, what if I said that military rule doesn't seem all that bad?

----------


## Warrior

> Erm, what if I said that military rule doesn't seem all that bad?


wait till you're summoned by them.

----------


## Sumbitch

> wait till you're summoned by them.


I _do_ understand (and have since time immemorial) that I don't want to see the inside of a Thai jail or prison.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Junta's Happy Happy Program


Surreal...

----------


## Waid

Ordered to be happy.

Amazing Thailand.

----------


## Butterfly

well, at least it sent a message to the silly Red and Yellow protesters, and political parties that failed to act (including the Democrats)

if you throw shit in your cage, you will have to eat it

the silly fuckers created the situation, the generals saw a great opportunity, can't blame them

----------


## Troy

> the silly fuckers created the situation, the generals saw a great opportunity, can't blame them


Ahem....the Generals created the situation and the politicians were too busy squabbling amongst themselves to do anything about it...

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> the silly fuckers created the situation, the generals saw a great opportunity, can't blame them
> 
> 
> Ahem....the Generals created the situation and the politicians were too busy squabbling amongst themselves to do anything about it...


A fine example of the Thai Parliamentary Democratic system that is ruled by a clandestine military vacuum. Very Thai.

----------


## terry57

In lumpini park today they had the official " Lets be friends with the police and Army gig "

A really big showing with heaps of people turning up. 

Free food, entertainment, police horses, dogs  ETC.

Quite good it was with a really positive vibe.

----------


## thaimeme

> In lumpini park today they had the official " Lets be friends with the police and Army gig "
> 
> A really big showing with heaps of people turning up. 
> 
> Free food, entertainment, police horses, dogs  ETC.
> 
> Quite good it was with a really positive vibe.


Free food. That'll win 'em over every time.

----------


## Waid

Did they eat the Police horses, & Police dogs?

I'm told they still do eat dogs in parts of Thailand.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Free food, entertainment, police horses, dogs ETC.


That will win hearts and minds. No, they just eat your food.

----------


## tomta

> Quote: Originally Posted by terry57 Free food, entertainment, police horses, dogs ETC. That will win hearts and minds. No, they just eat your food.


Perhaps the PDRC have just grown to used to free food and entertainment in Lumpini Park to give it up.

----------


## thaimeme

> Erm, what if I said that military rule doesn't seem all that bad?


Well - military rule doesn't seem that bad _here_.

----------


## terry57

The punters who actually live here will tell you that the place is ticking along very well with Military rule.  

Some nice changes happening as well.

The friction caused by the protesters on both sides has evaporated and business people can now concentrate on making money again. 

Tourist numbers are well down though and tourist related industries are doing it a tad hard. 

Not helped by the Travel warnings issued abroad coupled with problems with Insurance cover for travelers.

----------


## taxexile

The coup was the best thing to happen in years, it got rid of the idiots on the streets, and purged all vestiges of Thaksin from public office.

A welcome side effect of the coup is that it also seems to have silenced the sixth form amateur socialists cadre ( teak door branch), many of whom were predicting an armed uprising by the wurzels,  mass bloodshed and a bonfire of the benzes on sukhumvit.

I suspect they are all headsdown and very busy now, engaged in wound licking and re grouping therapy.

All hail the generals, resistance is futile.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Not helped by the Travel warnings issued abroad coupled with problems with Insurance cover for travelers.


Good point there. Basically you are not covered if your government is against the coup, you alone are taking the risk. Aus: Thailand military coup: Australians face travel insurance issues

----------


## Exit Strategy

> The coup was the best thing to happen in years





> All hail the generals, resistance is futile.


Why I feel sick reading posts like this... but you have right to speak out your opinion... rockin' in the free world, even if you would not allow it for others.

----------


## koman

Makes total sense that one wimpy insurance company is one corner of hysterical western society should panic over a military intervention that actually makes their customers safer.   I wonder if the senior management has ever been outside their own province?.....

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Makes total sense that one wimpy insurance company is one corner of hysterical western society should panic over a military intervention that actually makes their customers safer.   I wonder if the senior management has ever been outside their own province?.....


Insurance companies will not pay if there is any legal reason not to, and now there is. 

Many expats here are with Bupa Thai etc so no worries...

----------


## Seekingasylum

I and several others here, notably Tax, have consistently scoffed at the idiotic notion there could be some sort of populist insurrection against the vested interests that run this country. As ever, we were spot on but then that's not difficult when one sees this country as it is rather than how some post adolescent trundling his liberal western emotional baggage behind him might wish to see it.

The thing is, there is nothing new under the sun. All that has happened is that the generals who have essentially dictated things here since 1946 have become exasperated with the antics of Thaksin. He sidelined them in establishing his own autocracy using the police as his instrument of choice. Despite warnings, Thaksin's megalomania got the better of him and he had to go. Thaksin, the sequel, was given its head but old habits died hard and here we are. The generals have simply re-asserted their authority. 

However, to think there will be some sort of sea change in the methodology of Asian governance as a consequence of this realignment is really quite naive. Thai govern through a consensus of self interest in the name of the greater good. If there is to be a dividend for the " people " then it is conceded primarily so that the status quo is preserved.

Plus ca change, toujours le meme chose.

If anything lasting is to be achieved it will, hopefully, be the expungement of Thaksin and his tribe from the political landscape, forever.

----------


## taxexile

..


> Tax is clearly a guy who measures by results.... ..




...... and so far, the results have been very positive.

Box ticking falang lefties are still complaining, but they never have understood how Thailand really works.

Very few foreign governments have done anything more than make anodyne finger wagging statements through their embassies in diplo-ese.  No threats or heavy approbrium. They too understand very well that [at]the coup was necessary.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Very few foreign governments have done anything more than make anodyne finger wagging statements through their embassies in diplo-ese.


WASHINGTON - The United States is reviewing its military and other aid to Thailand following its "military coup," U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said on Thursday.

*"There is no justification for this military coup," Kerry said in a statement*. "*This act will have negative implications* for the U.S.-Thai relationship, especially for our relationship with the Thai military. We are reviewing our military and other assistance and engagements, consistent with U.S. law."

That I call a strongly worded letter and that is the most you can do diplomatically, short of napalm and such.

----------


## Seekingasylum

The whole point of diplomatspeak is that one rarely commits to anything unless the endgame is already formulated. 

The septics have undertaken to "review" their relationship. Do you seriously think for one nano second that the septics will forsake their special relationship with Thailand at a time when China is developing its influence in the region?

If so, you are a bigger fool than most of us we more intelligent of the forum have taken you for.

----------


## terry57

^

Well considering what happened back in 2010 its safe to say the Thais have matured a tad and certainly do not want to revisit this scenario.  

Hence why the military decided to step in and act as a circuit breaker before the Reds and Yellows really kicked it off.

Worked a treat so far with some nice reforms being done.

Jesus, they are not fuking around in Phuket.

----------


## terry57

> Civil war would be hell, insane people with no military background want to kill and murder like some on this family friendly forum.



There was indeed posters on this forum calling for death to the Yellows.

When you read that sort of post you realize just how simply retarded some Farang are. 

Some of the hard core political nutters on this forum were quite a good read.   :Smile: 

Good for ridicule anyway.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Very quiet now this lot.   :spam2:

----------


## Exit Strategy

> There was indeed posters on this forum calling for death to the Yellows


To be fair, I think there were posters calling death to Reds too.

Both wrong.

----------


## tomta

> There was indeed posters on this forum calling for death to the Yellows.  When you read that sort of post you realize just how simply retarded some Farang are.  Some of the hard core political nutters on this forum were quite a good read.  Good for ridicule anyway.


It's ridiculous, Terry, to claim that your posts aren't political. You think the coup's great because Prayuth is making the trains run on time. Other posters  think the coup is bad because basic rights to freedom of speech and the right to vote have been ripped away. Both are political views. Just coming from different value systems. 




> The punters who actually live here will tell you that the place is ticking along very well with Military rule.


I live here, Terry, so don't presume to speak for me.

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> 
> A welcome side effect of the coup is that it also seems to have silenced the sixth form amateur socialists cadre ( teak door branch), many of whom were predicting an armed uprising by the wurzels,  mass bloodshed and a bonfire of the benzes on sukhumvit.
> 
> I suspect they are all headsdown and very busy now, engaged in wound licking and re grouping therapy.
> 
> 
> ...


A greater civil war here will never come about, as it hasn't in the past during similar turbulent times. Sure, there has been pockets of subversiveness and resistance throughout Thai history, not of significant influence throughout the bowels of society. It's just not written in the nature of the overall population to rise up against entities that truly aren't that directly detrimental to their lives - this includes corrupt civilian government to militarism to elite power. Things remain the same regardless of the manufactured surface observations and events.

----------


## thaimeme

> "Pimsiri Petchnamrob stands silently in a mass of sharply dressed Bangkok commuters, her hands clutched around a copy of George Orwell's 1984.
> 
> Next to her a small group of young men and women, their faces sombre and their heads bowed low, also read books about fictional and real totalitarian worlds in silence."
> 
> My friends told me when they read 1984 for the first time they could never imagine there would be a country like that, but its happening now in Thailand, says Pimsiri.
> 
> Orwell's '1984' suddenly fashionable on Bangkok streets - CSMonitor.com


I can imagine that no one could tell me that there was much, if any, difference of general suppressive atmosphere from two/three months ago in comparison to this day. I have to wonder if anyone is paying attention. We're being played upon.

----------


## Seekingasylum

One wonders what these earnest young readers of great literature on their daily commute think they will achieve by such an act. What sacrifice has been wrought from this selfless, courageous pantomime of defiance? The only thing occurring to me is perhaps a denial of Facebook time or possibly temporary withdrawal from the more usual pastime of playing inane games on their IPhone. 

Yep, that'll do it. The Bangkok Spring has begun. Well, as much as it can at the beginning of any rainy season, that is.

----------


## tomta

> One wonders what these earnest young readers of great literature on their daily commute think they will achieve by such an act. What sacrifice has been wrought from this selfless, courageous pantomime of defiance? The only thing occurring to me is perhaps a denial of Facebook time or possibly temporary withdrawal from the more usual pastime of playing inane games on their IPhone.  Yep, that'll do it. The Bangkok Spring has begun. Well, as much as it can at the beginning of any rainy season, that is.


They have a point of view. They have things they want to say about the way they want the political structure of their country to be defined. Other avenues of political expression have been banned. Try raising three fingers to the Thai army to the army and see what happens to you. They are reading books publicly and making points about the fact that they want to be able to think freely. In almost all of your posts, you criticize Thais as a lazy, feckless, indoctrinated mass of plebeian idiots who should just stick to farming rice. And when a few young people stop playing facebook or their "inane games" as you say, and make a protest that actually puts them out of step with much of their society and many of their peers, and which puts them in danger of arrest, all you can do is sneer.

----------


## tomta

They know that some of their professors and some of their fellow students have been detained and released. They  know that some have been detained and not released. They know that some are in hiding or on the run or overseas.  They know that some have been charged with offences that could get them 15 years in jail. They know that the military has absolute, arbitrary power. The military can identify them and "invite" them to come for "attitude re-adjustment". These "earnest young readers of great literature" are braver than  me and I would think braver than you. But sneer on.

----------


## tomta

You think these students are unaware of the deaths of students in 1973 and 1976 and of students and other demonstrators in 1992 and 2010. Most students are or don't want to know about it. These "earnest young readers" do know about these things. Most of their peers don't know about it or don't want to know about it. History is boring. These are the young people who want to learn from and understand history. And you sneer at them for this?

----------


## Exit Strategy

Tomta. 1973 and 1976 are not forgotten.

----------


## Troy

> So many long term Expats on this forum who have been through it all before and yet some of the tools where sprouting off predicting civil war , blood shed in the street and a massacre regards Red versus Yellow.  Betty has been very quiet lately and Yasojack has simply disappeared.


It's probably because any post explaining the other side of the argument is simply deleted. Any reference to anything that may point to disagreement is deleted. So it's over to sport and word games...

...meanwhile, short term benefits brought by the Junta, the very people that created the chaos in the first place, are for short term beneficiaries. The reality is that Thailand has managed to take a couple of decades backwards in their progress. This is great for those of you who want it to stay in a  banana republic but not for those who are trying to improve the lives of the many in need.

Enjoy your fun under the Junta. Have a great time under the "happiness" they have created but don't expect the majority of Thais to be rejoicing with you.

----------


## Exit Strategy

Black May of 1992 and live fire zones of 2010 are not forgotten either.

----------


## thaimeme

> Tomta. 1973 and 1976 are not forgotten.


...and 1933, 1957, 1964, 1983, 1992, 2000, 2010. Yet, nothing quite compares to those two Octobers that you mention. Hallmarks.

----------


## Thormaturge

The Revenue Department haven't wasted any time.

 Yesterday we were confronted by a supervisor proudly wearing a yellow shirt insisting we now pay a "fee" for documents that are usually provided free.  When told there is no fee the response is "no fee, no form".

  Today it's the turn of another office what have decided they don't like the wording of some of our documents.  This can, of course, be smoothed over in a private meeting.

   Three tax offices in a week.

   Good luck with renewing driving licenses and visas once these ideas catch on.  I wonder what the "fee" will be for a work permit now. Our smaller competitors will be cleaned out if they have to cough up.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Good luck with renewing driving licenses


Going to Chatuchak to renew my 5-year soon... no problems at all before, but now, who knows.

----------


## Thormaturge

^
I'd take a wad just in case.

----------


## Kurgen

The local fallang Pattaya radio stations seemed to have re appeared today.

----------


## Seekingasylum

I have no idea why farang capitulate so easily to coercion designed to elicit bribes.
If the revenue declined to discharge its duty according to the law then record the fact with one's lawyer present and then complain formally with suitable published correspondence where appropriate.

Certainly, in the current climate one can have a lot of fun. General Prayuth has issued an edict stating the law should prevail equally. Presumably the Revenue Dept. official may wish to be made aware.

----------


## Thormaturge

You are so blisteringly naive it hurts.

It takes TWO YEARS to get a reply from the Revenue Department Head Office on matters of law.  

My company would be out of business waiting for a response if we followed your suggestion.  Additionally everything is verbal and deniable.  Turn up with a lawyer and you wind up looking daft.  Corrupt, what us?  Never!  Lawyer hands you his bill, thinks you are stupid, and the next time you get hit up for more.

----------


## taxexile

> It takes TWO YEARS to get a reply from the Revenue Department Head Office on matters of law.
> 
> My company would be out of business waiting for a response if we followed your suggestion. Additionally everything is verbal and deniable. Turn up with a lawyer and you wind up looking daft. Corrupt, what us? Never! Lawyer hands you his bill, thinks you are stupid, and the next time you get hit up for more.


Why do you subject yourself to the extortion, the lies, the cheating, the shakedowns and the corruption involved in doing business with these primitives?

----------


## thaimeme

> It takes TWO YEARS to get a reply from the Revenue Department Head Office on matters of law.
> 
> My company would be out of business waiting for a response if we followed your suggestion. Additionally everything is verbal and deniable. Turn up with a lawyer and you wind up looking daft. Corrupt, what us? Never! Lawyer hands you his bill, thinks you are stupid, and the next time you get hit up for more.
> 			
> 		
> 
> Why do you subject yourself to the extortion, the lies, the cheating, the shakedowns and the corruption involved in doing business with these primitives?


Matter of survival. Odd and contradictory as it might appear, sometimes it's best to go along to get along.

----------


## sabang

^^ He has no choice- thus it has ever been. It is a 'condition of doing business' in Thailand, and numerous other places too. The reality is, elected PT, appointed Dem, or coupist Military, the corruption machine rolls on much the same- just different jockeys. Business people just deal with it.

----------


## thaimeme

> The reality is, elected PT, appointed Dem, or coupist Military, the corruption machine rolls on much the same- just different jockeys.


This reality doesn't seem to sink in very well with many.

----------


## taxexile

But why would a falang, already a second or third class citizen, with little in the way of rights or status, apart from the false status that is dependent on ones bank balance, want to put himself in the position of having to wai to, having to negotiate favours from and  having to pay bribes to these odious little people in their pathetic bemedalled ruritania uniforms.

Have these falangs no pride, no sense of self worth, thast they can so easily prostitute themselves in order to "get on"

its bad enough as a non working immigrant, having to turn up at immigration three times a year whilst these pen pushing jobsworths lord it over you with their power to allow your application to remain, or to deny your application to remain.

Unless one is a feckless masochist, there is only so much of this bullshit a principled person can take.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> apart from the false status that is dependent on ones bank balance


That is not false status. 




> having to wai to, having to negotiate


You need to do that in every country dealing with bureaucrats.

Get with the program or do graceful exit.

----------


## terry57

Doing business in Thailand seems to be a very stressful existence and I ask myself why people do it. 

My mate has been at it for 20 odd years and has come to despise the Thais because of the problems they have caused him. 

Made a shit load of money but cant see the point of living in a country where one does not like the people. 

Just sell up and go would be the sensible option, not worth it is it ?

----------


## taxexile

> He has no choice- thus it has ever been. It is a 'condition of doing business' in Thailand, and numerous other places too. The reality is, elected PT, appointed Dem, or coupist Military, the corruption machine rolls on much the same- just different jockeys. Business people just deal with it.


He has every choice, he can be just another tiny little weak cog churning away and feeding his masters in return for the scraps that enable him to continue churning or he can decide that corruption is wrong, and refuse to be part of a system that weakens the country.

If people refused to pay, there would be no corruption.

But people are too weak, to greedy and too frightened to fight it. And the bullies that sit at the top of the pile laugh at their spineless underlings whilst enjoying the spoils regularly fed to them along with the superficial grin, the obsequious grovelling wai, and the bottle of johnny walker at new year.

----------


## terry57

^

Erm, You don't really believe that do you Tax ?

Christ, If they don't get their sling life could be made unbearable for the falang. 

Thailand lives on the sling.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Doing business in Thailand seems to be a very stressful existence and I ask myself why people do it.


It can be, but many do it for work permit and non imm b visa...

Then, considering Cambodia, now... pros and cons... business environment...

----------


## terry57

^

Don't get seriously Ill there, good medical is the problem innit.

----------


## taxexile

Well, it looks like some people are taking a stand agasinst corrupt officials demanding money.


From todays bangkok post.





>  Senior MOF official in tea money bust
> 
> 
> 
> An executive of the state-owned Marketing Organisation for Farmers (MOF) has been arrested in a corruption sting for allegedly extorting 1.5 million baht from a businessman.
> 
> The arrest followed a month-long collection of evidence by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), which is stepping up efforts to combat graft.
> 
> The move is in line with NCPO chief Prayuth Chan-ochas recent pledge to crack down on corruption and conflicts of interest, including any state agency or individual demanding under-the-table payments.
> ...

----------


## Exit Strategy

> ^
> 
> Don't get seriously Ill there, good medical is the problem innit.


Just one hour 10 min flight from PP to BKK. Have been thinking about things like that.

----------


## taxexile

> Erm, You don't really believe that do you Tax ?


The weak and unprincipled will always choose the easy way, the way that takes the least effort. The way that demands no fight, only submission. Its why thailand and its systems are the way they are and the country so lawless and dysfunctional. This can be an attraction for tourists and long stayers, but can make life hell for those without the money or connections to obtain their rights.

It is what separates advanced societies from third world jungles.

Those who should know better but still meekly submit to "the system" are as bad as those on the take. They have no pride, no self esteem, they are happy to play the game so long as they too can achieve some gain.

They refuse to see the damage it does to the society they are living in.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> The weak and unprincipled





> country so lawless and dysfunctional





> separates advanced societies from third world jungles





> They have no pride, no self esteem


Damn, my love for Thailand is reignited by your kind  :Smile:

----------


## FloridaBorn

> But people are too weak, to greedy and too frightened to fight it. And the bullies that sit at the top of the pile laugh at their spineless underlings whilst enjoying the spoils regularly fed to them along with the superficial grin, the obsequious grovelling wai, and the bottle of johnny walker at new year.


This part has some truth. My missus works for a big Thai/Chinese company there and with thousands of employees they still let their boss tread all over them.. He still hasn't paid most of them their promised bonuses from the Chinese new year holiday and has only paid half to upper management like my missus and I keep telling them that one day's sick out and he will lose more money than all of the bonuses he owes but will get the point and not be able to fire the entire company and everyone is too scared to even talk about it. So he just takes full advantage and they suffer in silence out of cowardice while he continues to roll in the billions off their back without a single complaint. In China this same boss might be killed in his own office, I'll give the Chinese that, they handle cheating bosses.

----------


## thaimeme

> Doing business in Thailand seems to be a very stressful existence and I ask myself why people do it.



The stress factor would largely depend on the business that one might pursue and what you can get away with. Social relations and connections are terribly important.

----------


## sabang

*ANU event on Thai coup*

_On 22 May 2014, General Prayuth Chan-ocha and the military junta he leads, the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), instigated the twelfth successful coup in Thailand since the end of the absolute monarchy in June 1932. According to General Prayuth and the NCPO, the coup was carried out in order to reform the country and to return happiness to the people. Yet in the first weeks after the coup, the coup has ushered in Thailand’s most repressive government in nearly forty years, with widespread restrictions on the press, arbitrary summoning and detention, the use of military courts and mass deportations of migrant workers. What are the historical underpinnings of the coup, its implications for the region, and its possible futures?

A series of four short talks by scholars from the ANU College of Asia and the Pacific and the ANU College of Law will address armed force and electoral politics, the constitutional implications of the coup, the attack on dissident thinking, and perspectives of the coup from outside Thailand. The four talks will be presented by Craig Reynolds (CAP), Nicholas Farrelly (CAP), Sarah Bishop (CoL), and Tyrell Haberkorn (CAP). Nick Cheesman (CAP) will serve as moderator and the talks will be followed by an open Q/A discussion.

The event is free and open to the public.

Location: Manning Clark Centre Theatre 2

Date: Friday, 27 June 2014-06-13

Time: 12-2pm_

Thailand is quite the Topic du Jour, these days (ANU is the Australian National University, in Canberra).

----------


## leemo

As long as our glorious leaders stay on track they have my support, even allowing for some of the quainter decrees. Which probably means not too long.

----------


## taxexile

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> The weak and unprincipled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Anybody paying a bribe, whether it is 200b to placate a traffic policeman, 2000b to faciltate a visa extension due to a lack of supporting documents, or 200,000b to reduce an income tax bill is complicit in a system that results in the enrichment  of undeserving and sleazy officials all the way down to the employment of sweatshop girls earning 100b a day sewing buttons on shirts or  fishermen being treated worse than galley slaves in ancient rome.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> 
> Doing business in Thailand seems to be a very stressful existence and I ask myself why people do it. 
> 
> 
> 
> The stress factor would largely depend on the business that one might pursue and what you can get away with. Social relations and connections are terribly important.


And how many others want a piece of it, especially if it's successful.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Well said, Tax. People who kow tow in the face of bureaucratic demands for corrupt payments are weak and quite spineless. It's no different to bullying and when one succumbs to that you turn yourself into a victim.

One stands up to bullies. I suppose that may seem naive to some but not in my book. I have a spine.

----------


## rickschoppers

Don't we all "kow tow" to some extent when we live in Thailand?

----------


## FloridaBorn

Can't get anything done without it, and I doubt any of those posting have permanent residency so they're kow towing to someone, even if they're in denial about it. Taking pictures sitting on the bed with their missus or some other equally humiliating loop jumping like a trained poodle.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Can't get anything done without it


I wouldn't have said "anything".

----------


## FloridaBorn

Ok, stand corrected.. Most anything...  :Smile:

----------


## taxexile

> Taking pictures sitting on the bed with their missus or some other equally humiliating loop jumping like a trained poodle.


That is complying with the regulations. Paying bribes in order to bypass immigration regulations is something quite different.

----------


## FloridaBorn

Still kow towing, by any other name. Would you have the brass to stand up to that personal intrusion of your privacy that no other civilized country I know of requires for visa purposes? Fortunately for me, not being married to a Thai I never had to, but I'd be pretty pissed off and offended if I did.

----------


## rickschoppers

I disagree Tax. Show me a regulation that states you have to take a picture of you sitting on the bed with your wife.

Or any other pictures for that matter. Also, why ask others to speak about how good a couple you may be and how you do not beat your wife.

The list is endless and is all kow towing in my book. Big different between this and following obvious regulations.

----------


## taxexile

Im not here on a marriage visa, so I have never been through that process, but my understanding is that you have to prove you are living together.

When my wife went to extend her visa in the UK, we were questioned separately by immigration officials about our married life together and told we may be visited at home by officials. We were questioned on our  favourite foods, tv shows, how we spent our time together etc. Intrusive? Maybe, but they need to verify the authenticity of the claim.

Its the same in Thailand.

----------


## rickschoppers

I like the UK solution better, but there is a lot more that the Thais do to cause frustration. It is only common sense, but there is the rub. It is also left to interpretation of the immigration office. I am the first to abide by the immigration regulations, but why make it so difficult? Stupid question, I know.

Do you ever get stopped by road blocks in town because the police do not patrol?

Have you ever paid a traffic fine for something you did not do.

Have you ever been asked for another document that is not on any regulation list?

On and on and on Tax. You get the picture, or maybe you don't.

----------


## Evilbaz

> Still kow towing, by any other name. Would you have the brass to stand up to that personal intrusion of your privacy that no other civilized country I know of requires for visa purposes? Fortunately for me, not being married to a Thai I never had to, but I'd be pretty pissed off and offended if I did.



Many western countries require similar pictorial evidence for a visa for a Thai wife/fiancee to prove it is bona fide.

These requirements come in because  of the number of farangs cheating previously.

----------


## rickschoppers

And what western countries are those? You can not say the US because they use interviews and the laws are pretty strict about what kind of questions can be asked.

----------


## taxexile

I do get the picture, and also find immigration a frustrating department to deal with as they are always moving the goalposts.

But now I phone them up a day before any visit and confirm exactly what they require and make sure I am seen by that person. I am lucky in that Hua Hin is a smallish office and the service there is pretty good once your face is known.

It is probably very different in Bangkok or Pattaya.

----------


## rickschoppers

> I do get the picture, and also find immigration a frustrating department to deal with as they are always moving the goalposts.
> 
> But now I phone them up a day before any visit and confirm exactly what they require and make sure I am seen by that person. I am lucky in that Hua Hin is a smallish office and the service there is pretty good once your face is known.
> 
> It is probably very different in Bangkok or Pattaya.


Good idea Tax. I will try that the next visit to my local immigration office. You just need to make sure that person is working the next day.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Its the same in Thailand.


Not likely, they do that in the UK like the states because the visa is coveted for opportunities and most don't have the funds to enter legally so they also want to make sure it's not human slavery and of free will. In Thailand the spouse is usually the financier of the marriage so the same doesn't apply in the least. The ratio female to male seeking visa's into a western country versus the reverse is probably 95% or better but the male version of the same scenario surely exists too on some level if the regs in western countries were more relaxed..

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> Still kow towing, by any other name. Would you have the brass to stand up to that personal intrusion of your privacy that no other civilized country I know of requires for visa purposes? Fortunately for me, not being married to a Thai I never had to, but I'd be pretty pissed off and offended if I did.
> 
> 
> 
> Many western countries require similar pictorial evidence for a visa for a Thai wife/fiancee to prove it is bona fide.
> 
> These requirements come in because  of the number of farangs cheating previously.


See above...

----------


## Warrior

> The coup was the best thing to happen in years, it got rid of the idiots on the streets, and purged all vestiges of Thaksin from public office.
> 
> A welcome side effect of the coup is that it also seems to have silenced the sixth form amateur socialists cadre ( teak door branch), many of whom were predicting an armed uprising by the wurzels,  mass bloodshed and a bonfire of the benzes on sukhumvit.
> 
> I suspect they are all headsdown and very busy now, engaged in wound licking and re grouping therapy.
> 
> All hail the generals, resistance is futile.


Yes, I am one of them who said that there was a big risk of bloodshed. I take nothing back from that - at that time (May 23rd or something), there was in my opinion that risk, and I still believe there was that risk. With hindsight... 

'The best thing to happen in years'... I am not so sure. So far the junta is doing okay, but for being the best thing in years we will have to look at their legacy. Now, history tells us that any coup is just another step in the ongoing circle of coup-interim government-elections-elected government-coup.
But we wait and see.

As for the statement 'amateur socialist cadre'... even if I would be a member of that cadre, in the Thai context, that notion is meaningless.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Many western countries require similar pictorial evidence for a visa for a Thai wife/fiancee to prove it is bona fide.  These requirements come in because of the number of farangs cheating previously.


What about when it's the other way around, farang lady married to a Thai man? She/he doesn't have to show money and all the other shit that applies to a farang male. No sexual equality in LoS.

----------


## FloridaBorn

One up side has got to be the lack of campaigning trucks with loud speakers, I can relate to that and I don't even live there anymore.

----------


## thaimeme

> Im not here on a marriage visa, so I have never been through that process, but my understanding is that you have to prove you are living together.
> 
> When my wife went to extend her visa in the UK, we were questioned separately by immigration officials about our married life together and told we may be visited at home by officials. We were questioned on our  favourite foods, tv shows, how we spent our time together etc. Intrusive? Maybe, but they need to verify the authenticity of the claim.
> 
> Its the same in Thailand.


Truly, not all together the same. One needs to experience the variety of differences before posting about items you know nothing of.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Still kow towing, by any other name. Would you have the brass to stand up to that personal intrusion of your privacy that no other civilized country I know of requires for visa purposes? Fortunately for me, not being married to a Thai I never had to, but I'd be pretty pissed off and offended if I did.


Plainly, you have no knowledge of how immigration policies work elsewhere, otherwise you would not have written such drivel.

In order  to qualify for a settlement visa in the Uk, and most other western countries for that matter, one is required to demonstrate one's financial worth and that the relationship is a genuine one. This involves the production of financial records over 6 months and personal correspondence of an intimate nature including deeply personal photographic memorabilia and billet doux.

The intrusion into one's privacy is extensive and brooks no demur. In no uncertain terms, one is required to bare one's life in toto.

At least in Thailand, the costs to do so are not exhorbitant as they are in the UK, for example.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Im not here on a marriage visa, so I have never been through that process, but my understanding is that you have to prove you are living together.
> 
> When my wife went to extend her visa in the UK, we were questioned separately by immigration officials about our married life together and told we may be visited at home by officials. We were questioned on our  favourite foods, tv shows, how we spent our time together etc. Intrusive? Maybe, but they need to verify the authenticity of the claim.
> 
> 
> Its the same in Thailand.


Good Lord Tax, they haven't done that for years in Blighty. All extensions of leave to remain are by paper only. No interviews, no home visits. Just stump up the £900 and bury them in paper.

----------


## terry57

> He still hasn't paid most of them their promised bonuses from the Chinese new year holiday and has only paid half to upper management like my missus.
> 
> So he just takes full advantage and they suffer in silence



And why can he continue to do this ?

The reason is there is no Union to protect the workers so here we have a filthy rich capitalist wanker exploiting his workers.

Thank fuk for the Union movement or the vast majority of workers would be working under wankers like this such as we see in 3 RD world countries.

----------


## terry57

> In order  to qualify for a settlement visa in the Uk, and most other western countries for that matter, one is required to demonstrate one's financial worth and that the relationship is a genuine one.
> 
>  This involves the production of financial records over 6 months and personal correspondence of an intimate nature including deeply personal photographic memorabilia and billet doux.
> 
> The intrusion into one's privacy is extensive and brooks no demur. In no uncertain terms, one is required to bare one's life in toto.



The Gent is spot on with this one, the same happens in Australia. To try and arrive legally is not easy. 

Must be able to tell Immigration what time your lady friend has a shit and what color it will be on a Wednesday.

The only way to circumvent the system was to arrive on a boat from Malaysia or Indonesia .

Tony sorted that out though.   :spam2:

----------


## terry57

> Unions are threat to the Thai nation.




Of course they are hence we see millions of people working for absolutely fuk all.

Human rights are at the bottom of the barrel and rich fukers rule supreme. 

On the other hand if it was like the West the vast majority of Farang would not be here. 

The Mongerers certainly would not as the whores would be way too expensive.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

^stop it, you're making my sides hurt  :rofl:

----------


## thaimeme

> ......_sic_since its democratic inception.


Democratic inception.
I do trust that you realize that the 1932 happenings had nothing whatsoever to do with the formation of any such democratic institutions and relationship, as it has been promoted to be.

To be frank, the modern state has yet to experience an overall true form of a progressive free/open democratic manner.

----------


## taxexile

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> Im not here on a marriage visa, so I have never been through that process, but my understanding is that you have to prove you are living together.
> 
> When my wife went to extend her visa in the UK, we were questioned separately by immigration officials about our married life together and told we may be visited at home by officials. We were questioned on our  favourite foods, tv shows, how we spent our time together etc. Intrusive? Maybe, but they need to verify the authenticity of the claim.
> 
> 
> Its the same in Thailand.
> ...


It was 1994 or 95, didnt cost a penny. 

Had to go and queue for half a day along with hundreds of plastic bag carrying asylum seekers at Lunar House in Croydon, I was interviewed by a Paki, and my wife by an Aussie. Not too much in the way of paperwork either, just some guarantees from the Thai embassy in London, who were terrible to deal with and our UK marriage license. Lunar House was a dismal experience , it was a run down gloomy shithole, but they were polite and respectful and gave her a five year extension, after which she got citizenship and a British passport.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Originally Posted by FloridaBorn
> 
> 
> 
> He still hasn't paid most of them their promised bonuses from the Chinese new year holiday and has only paid half to upper management like my missus.
> 
> So he just takes full advantage and they suffer in silence
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed I've suggested on several occasions that if nothing else they threaten to begin one and bring in some union reps to have company wide meeting & scare the crap out of them and get their attention.

----------


## FloridaBorn

> Unions are threat to the Thai nation. That's why the yellow governments have let thugs crushed them throughout Thai history.


Surely you say that tongue in cheek, it has naught to do with threatening the country, it threatens the status quo of the country.




> The Gent is spot on with this one, the same happens in Australia. To try and arrive legally is not easy.


 Again, once in a life time for an immigration visa, then not again, Thailand it's annual and only applies to foreign males marrying Thai females as has been pointed out..

----------


## S Landreth

Human trafficking gangs and corrupt officials face crackdown


The National Council for Peace and Order has vowed to suppress human trafficking gangs who prey on foreign migrant workers and corrupt Thai officials who work hands in glove with the gangs.

Colonel Winthai Suvaree, a member of the NCPOs team of spokespersons, admitted Wednesday that some unscrupulous officials were involved in the human trafficking activities and the junta was determined to root them out.

While the authorities are in the process of regulating and legalizing foreign migrant workers, business operators have been told by the NCPO to stop hiring more illegal migrant workers, said the colonel.

He went on saying that the NCPO as determined to weed out all human trafficking activities in order to prevent the migrant workers from being exploited or persecuted and to put into order the foreign labour force in order to restore foreign confidence in the Thai justice system and to protect the interests of the migrant workers.

----------


## Dandyhole

> Another fanatic at it in the UK this time with a 'gun'. I won't post the story for this one. You can google prachatai for the story. It all encouraged by the fanatics in power right now in Thailand.


Yes that's two thai fascists threatening and harassing a British citizen in a few days.

This latest thai fascist went in with a gun .

The gun brandishing thai fascist was quick to take the video down from his FB page, but not quick enough, and the bad news for both these thai fascists is that the Metropolitan Police are now on their case.

The arrogance of these two " tools of Prayuth" is astonishing.

Works at a thai restaurant in Putney....

The good news is no harm done to their brave , non kow-towing, intended victim.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Anybody paying a bribe, whether it is 200b to placate a traffic policeman, 2000b to faciltate a visa extension due to a lack of supporting documents, or 200,000b to reduce an income tax bill is


It can be 300b for expensive SUV owners now. It it morally wrong to pay that, but there you are, you want to go to police station next day when you are happily driving in Rayong enjoying lovely beaches going home next day. And it is all my fault speeding on nice Thai motorways. Bribes are a problem in Thailand. But bribing visa extensions or VAT or income tax, that is a bit different thing... never done that (my conscience clear), so I don't know.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> On the other hand if it was like the West the vast majority of Farang would not be here.


There you have it :Smile:  And seriously. We want... wanted the Free World. Want.

----------


## BaitongBoy

> Must be able to tell Immigration what time your lady friend has a shit and what color it will be on a Wednesday.


I had some perve from immigration checking the pictures in my camera...He especially liked the one when she doggied down with her panties around her ankles...

He asked if I had more...

----------


## Exit Strategy

> I had some perve from immigration checking the pictures in my camera


Immigration can check your phones, computers, flash drives or other media.

----------


## sabang

Where is Kritsuda?

_The Thai military junta has summoned a Redshirt activist that a human rights group says has not been seen since she was arrested by the military three weeks ago.
Kritsuda Khunasen, 27, was arrested by soldiers on 28 May in Chonburi province, but the military has declined to release any information about her detention or whereabouts, Human Rights Watch reports. She has been missing for three weeks, which exceeds seven-day limit under martial law for detaining individuals without charges.

... “Summoning someone already in custody raises concerns that the authorities may be preparing to cover up a disappearance and that something may have happened to Kritsuda,” said Brad Adams, the US-based Asia Director at Human Rights Watch. “The best way to prove this is not the case is to release her unharmed.” 

... “We suspect foul play,” said a Human Rights Watch official who has been following the case closely. “In this context foul play could mean forced disappearance, which is a crime under international law.” The official asked to remain anonymous to avoid persecution by the NCPO, which has moved to silence critics and already blocked Human Rights Watch’s webpage on Thailand. 

It is unclear whether Ms. Kritsuda remains in military custody, and if so, why she has not been released. Ms. Kritsuda was not as high-profile or outspoken as a number of other Redshirt activists that have all been released after no more than seven days._ 
Junta Summons Activist Not Yet Released from Military Custody


I don't know any reason why she would have been 'disappeared'- she is only a minor player, but 3 weeks now (and counting) and no word about her whereabouts or wellbeing. And why the summons for someone they were publicly seen taking into custody?

----------


## sabang

Hehe, what if Thailand were like PNG  :Smile: -

*Papua New Guinea Anti-Corruption Body Axed After It Charges Premier*
_
SYDNEY (DPA) — Papua New Guinea's Prime Minister Peter O'Neill disbanded the country's anti-corruption body Wednesday after it had served an arrest warrant on him over corruption allegations, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation reported.
O'Neill said the body, Taskforce Sweep, had been "politically compromised" when it served an arrest warrant on him on Monday.

The deputy police commissioner and attorney general have since been sacked._
Papua New Guinea Anti-Corruption Body Axed After It Charges Premier

----------


## S Landreth

> Kritsuda Khunasen, 27, was arrested by soldiers on 28 May in Chonburi province,.....
> 
> she is only a minor player


I do hope shes alright and she is found,..but




> she is only a minor player


Thats hardly the case. She was secretary to the keeper of the keys (May E.U. a red shirt that has left the country). She knows where the bodies are buried (she kept the records of gunmen and payments made).




from your link,......

"May E.U.," who was responsible for siphoning money to local Redshirt groups. Soldiers found and arrested Ms. Kritsuda during a raid on May E.U.'s office, an activist working for iLaw told Khaosod English. According to iLaw, May E.U. had already fled the country prior to the military raid.

----------


## Exit Strategy

Hoping she is ok... 

VOA: Rights Groups Slam Thai Junta for 'Arbitrary Arrests'




> working for iLaw

----------


## leemo

> Unions are threat to the Thai nation. That's why the yellow governments have let thugs crushed them throughout Thai history.


For sure. A few years back I discovered LoS actually has unions, but these are much disliked by the lizards and kept behind electrified barb with occasional temp day release.

They also have consumer, elf'nsafety and other 'people' orgs just like civilised countries, but these are considered even more feral and secured by the Scavengers Daughter.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by ericson2u
> 
> Unions are threat to the Thai nation. That's why the yellow governments have let thugs crushed them throughout Thai history.
> 
> 
> Surely you say that tongue in cheek, it has naught to do with threatening the country, it threatens the status quo of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To get a visa based on marriage to a Thai, if done in the U.S., is a piece of cake compared to what it takes to get one for a Thai to live in the U.S. based on marriage. I have done both, yes you have to do the visa annually in Thailand but a piece of cake. It seems you whine about everything in Thailand that doesn't meet U.S. standards, relax and get used to it, you can not change anything in Thailand you are only a guest. You will live longer and have less health problems.

----------


## RPETER65

[quote=FloridaBorn;2801557]


> Unions are threat to the Thai nation. That's why the yellow governments have let thugs crushed them throughout Thai history.


Surely you say that tongue in cheek, it has naught to do with threatening the country, it threatens the status quo of the country.




> The Gent is spot on with this one, the same happens in Australia. To try and arrive legally is not easy.


 Again, once in a life time for an immigration visa, then not again, Thailand it's annual and only applies to foreign males marrying Thai females as has been pointed out..[/quote

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by ericson2u
> 
> 
> Another fanatic at it in the UK this time with a 'gun'. I won't post the story for this one. You can google prachatai for the story. It all encouraged by the fanatics in power right now in Thailand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And you know these two are a tool of Prayuth how?

----------


## Seekingasylum

A scrawny chicken head flashing, somewhat discreetly within the confines of his car, his replica handgun sneaks up to a suburban door and dribbles some paint in a puerile gesture and you think it's significant?

Little fucker would shit himself if a hairy arsed Met copper pulled him.

Irrespective of how it may be received here in Thailand, he's just another juvenile dickhead posturing in his own fantasy world of no consequence.

----------


## nidhogg

> A scrawny chicken head flashing, somewhat discreetly within the confines of his car, his replica handgun sneaks up to a suburban door and dribbles some paint in a puerile gesture and you think it's significant?
> 
> Little fucker would shit himself if a hairy arsed Met copper pulled him.
> 
> Irrespective of how it may be received here in Thailand, he's just another juvenile dickhead posturing in his own fantasy world of no consequence.


One does hope that the UK Met do take an interest in this case.  The "DJ Ken" might not like his brush with a real police force.

----------


## sabang

The day is coming, when the thai will take their own country back.

----------


## nidhogg

> The day is coming, when the thai will take their own country back.


Who has nicked it exactly Sabang?

----------


## terry57

^

I wish he would make his statement a tad more clearer.

Have no idea what he is on about.   :Confused: 

Back from who ?

Back from What ?

Kick out all the Farang maybe ?    :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## thaimeme

> The day is coming, when the thai will take their own country back.


Let's hope this will take place peacefully without too much bloodshed.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> The day is coming, when the thai will take their own country back.


A no more clearer example of just how deranged and addled a farang can be one couldn't hope to find.

Thailand is a medieval country which has lived in a feudal state of its own construction since the Burmese and Khmen hegemony waned, about 300 years. In that time it has practised a sovereignty in which the majority have served a miniiscule minority, an arrangement which continues to exist now.

There is nothing whatsoever so far disclosed within the mainstream society to suggest that status quo will alter any time soon.

It might help if a populist movement were to develop but since most Thai are a lying, stupid, thieving, unscrupulous, lazy and utterly feckless bunch of tossers that is not likely.

They get the society they deserve and this is it. Who in their right mind would give a shit? They couldn't, so why should others.

----------


## Bangyai

> Yes that's two thai fascists threatening and harassing a British citizen in a few days.


Credit where it's due though. The prequel had a bit more in the way of entertainment value.




Unctuous Ali ( obviously a nickname for Alison ) does his best to acquiesce to the bizarre foibles of the bit of um..........not so high-so bit of fluff he is currently rogering as they practice their second language on each other.

----------


## taxexile

prayuth "eliot ness" chana -ocha is a gift from heaven to the thai people. 

his masterstroke broke the deadlock that had crippled the country for months. he locked the country down in three hours flat.


and he has hit the ground running, intent on ridding the country of the myriad mafia that run it.

from the mafia that run the street beggars, through the mid level mafias that run the motorcycle taxis, the tuk tuks, the taxi operations, the tourist scams, the moneylenders and the lottery all the way to parliament and boardrooms of thai airways, ptt and the telecoms giants, via the police protected drug mafias andthe illegal immigrant labour gangs, and of course thaksins tentacles are being amputated on a daily basis too. 

yes, the generals broom is working overtime.

and at this time it's just what thailand needs.  a man unhampered by the false diplomacy of thailands so-called democracy. a man above the law, unhampered by the tricks of lawyers as they attempt to save their guilty clients.

a man with absolute power who can override the courts, the police, the banks and the boardrooms in order to root out the rats. a judge dredd for our times.

only then can democracy be returned.

thais have no discipline, thai society is a mess, they need whipping into shape, too many freedoms and rights too soon. its too easy to abuse the system. the general will sort it all out, have no doubt. thais respond well to a big stick thoughtfully wielded.

make an example of a few miscreants from all levels of society, and order will soon be restored.

then maybe there can be elections.

oh yes, what a glorious coup this is.

----------


## Dandyhole

> prayuth "eliot ness" chana -ocha is a gift from heaven to the thai people. 
> 
> his masterstroke broke the deadlock that had crippled the country for months. he locked the country down in three hours flat.
> 
> 
> and he has hit the ground running, intent on ridding the country of the myriad mafia that run it.
> 
> from the mafia that run the street beggars, through the mid level mafias that run the motorcycle taxis, the tuk tuks, the taxi operations, the tourist scams, the moneylenders and the lottery all the way to parliament and boardrooms of thai airways, ptt and the telecoms giants, via the police protected drug mafias andthe illegal immigrant labour gangs, and of course thaksins tentacles are being amputated on a daily basis too. 
> 
> ...


Nice, that's what the two surviving generals of the Turkish coup 1980 said, as  they got their life sentences

----------


## thaimeme

> It should be noted that not all stories in the Thai news are posted on TD. So the information here and in the rest of the forum is limited. There are many news stories I run across which I would like to post related to the coup but don't because I know they are too sensitive. So for those reading this, you've just got to do some extra reading at the Thai news websites to get more perspective on this. I'm writing this now because it gets to me when I can't add something to this topic. I just want it to be known that the rest of the story isn't here. I know most people realize this but some who don't follow Thailand and TD regularly may not.


Sure. Look upon TD as a supplement as it applies to Thai/Thailand news.
Though, it's not as active as it once was regarding Thai news...mai phen rai.

Those that have great interests in gathering Thai news/info, I'm sure know where to go to source it out. There are a wealth of options out there.

----------


## taxexile

> Nice, that's what the two surviving generals of the Turkish coup 1980 said, as they got their life sentences


a ridiculous statement.

why are you comparing the violent takeover with may many deaths, executions  and the mass imprisonments under barbaric conditions with the rather gentler situation in thailand.

----------


## Phrakhanong

> prayuth "eliot ness" chana -ocha is a gift from heaven to the thai people. 
> 
> his masterstroke broke the deadlock that had crippled the country for months. he locked the country down in three hours flat.
> 
> 
> and he has hit the ground running, intent on ridding the country of the myriad mafia that run it.
> 
> from the mafia that run the street beggars, through the mid level mafias that run the motorcycle taxis, the tuk tuks, the taxi operations, the tourist scams, the moneylenders and the lottery all the way to parliament and boardrooms of thai airways, ptt and the telecoms giants, via the police protected drug mafias andthe illegal immigrant labour gangs, and of course thaksins tentacles are being amputated on a daily basis too. 
> 
> ...


Are you being sarcastic, or are you actually serious?  Yes, the General has temporarily halted any street protests and temporarily brought people back into line.  Yes, the General is doing his best to cut out the influences of Thaksin and his supporters from Thailand's government.  However, do you honestly believe the General is doing so purely for his love of Thailand, or is he doing so for other, ulterior reasons.  

To me, all I see is the General and his supporters returning their snouts back to the trough so that they can have another feed.  Remember the GT200 issue.  The bomb detector that was really just a pile of useless electronics that didn't work.  Even after the guys behind the company were charged in the UK for fraud, the General still stood behind the GT200 (and still wanted to order more).  During the fraud case, documents were provided for discovery that indicated that the company made easy money through selling to third world countries, where the relevant government officials received their kickbacks.  Don't tell me the Thai army didn't have a similar arrangement.  

Ditto with the General's replacement of various strategic government/quasi-government/judicial positions with his friends/supporters.  Is this really just to improve the country, or is it just to reward his supporters by putting them in positions where (a) they can benefit and (b) they can exercise power in favour of the General's interests?  Looking at the army's involvement in Thailand's history since the end of WW2, I'd say the answer is pretty obvious.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely... you can see where the General is heading.  Don't delude yourself into believing that the General's path to "fixing" Thailand is with a view to what is truly best for Thailand.  Based on his past actions, you certainly can't trust what he says.

----------


## leemo

> *Police say Facebook posting to mobilise protests may lead to 7 years imprisonment*
> Police say Facebook posting to mobilise protests may lead to 7 years imprisonment | Prachatai English
> 
>                                                               Wed, 18/06/2014 - 16:40 | by *prachatai* 
> Assistant police chief Pol Lt-Gen Somyot Pumpanmuang said on  Wednesday after meeting with the military that anyone who posts online  to mobilise anti-coup protests can face up to seven years imprisonment
> 
>  Pol Lt-Gen Somyot also warned that in doing so the person may  violate Section 116 for inciting unrest. Regarding student activists who  hand out sandwiches as symbolic protests, he said the police would  consider whether the protesters have the intention to stage a political  gathering of more than five persons.  
> 
>  He said the fact that the anti-coup protests have decreased is due  to the efficient strategies of security officers, such as placing troops  at BTS stations and important meeting points and employing plainclothes  police officers. Taking photos of protesters and requesting cooperation  from retailers nearby also contribute to this success.


I wonder how many thousands of people our glorious leaders are keeping employed to scour the www for dissent. Good job they don't know about TD, where honest people say what they feel.

Ftr, again, I have no horse in this circus and am not impressed by the way they have gone about it, but I do not disagree with Suthep et al that the majority of Thais are too fickle to be charged with the serious responsibility of electing their own leaders based on who pays them most or how the twigs and chicken bones landed.

Western-style democracy is not for all.

----------


## rickschoppers

^
So what kind of government would work well in Thailand?

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by ericson2u
> 
> 
> *Police say Facebook posting to mobilise protests may lead to 7 years imprisonment*
> Police say Facebook posting to mobilise protests may lead to 7 years imprisonment | Prachatai English
> 
> Wed, 18/06/2014 - 16:40 | by *prachatai* 
> Assistant police chief Pol Lt-Gen Somyot Pumpanmuang said on Wednesday after meeting with the military that anyone who posts online to mobilise anti-coup protests can face up to seven years imprisonment
> 
> ...


I am not sure (but I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong!) that there is any prohibition in discussing the coup (and I am talking about Thailand rather than the board per se).  The quoted section says "anyone who posts online to mobilise anti-coup protests"  which is clearly a very different kettle of fish (hi thorny!).

----------


## sabang

> but I do not disagree with Suthep et al that the majority of Thais are too fickle to be charged with the serious responsibility of electing their own leaders based on who pays them most or how the twigs and chicken bones landed


Then like most yellows, you live in the past. But what alternative model would you propose-a mafioso of self proclaimed 'goodfellas' promoting their clan cronies over the peoples will? Or the dominant army faction?

As for the present-
_times have changed. As Bill Klausner has written extensively, the confined worlds of rural Thai villages that he knew in the 1950s, where spirits and officials were to be appeased and a traditional subsistence way of life was passed on from generation to generation with little change, has radically changed. Now villagers are plugged into the rest of the world via television, mobile phones, pick-up trucks, and family members spending time working at wage earning jobs in Bangkok. {neglected to mention social media, internet, tablets, iphones etc}

.. there has been impressive economic development in Thailand over recent decades, which has caused the lives of villagers to change immensely, giving them a sense of potential empowerment and a clearer sense of their rights and interests. Thailand is no longer a poor country, and Bangkok has become a wealthy and cosmopolitan city. But the political institutions of the country have not evolved with the economic and social progress._ 
Thoughts on Thailand’s Turmoil by James Stent | ZENJOURNALIST MIRROR

All you need to do now is call the citizens of Thailand 'monkeys', and you too can be a full blown yellow.  :Smile:

----------


## pseudolus

> ^
> So what kind of government would work well in Thailand?


A benevolent dictator just long enough to improve the education in the country with the people able to think and question rather than passively accept being rammed up the wrong'un by the yellows and the reds.

----------


## rickschoppers

^
Not bad.

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> ^
> So what kind of government would work well in Thailand?
> 
> 
> A benevolent dictator just long enough to improve the education in the country with the people able to think and question rather than passively accept being rammed up the wrong'un by the yellows and the reds.


....yet, not question the benevolent dictator? :mid:

----------


## sabang

But, but, I thought the yellows absolutely hated Thaksins autocratic tendencies?  :mid:

----------


## pseudolus

> ....yet, not question the benevolent dictator?


A benevolent dictator would encourage this, surely? 




> But, but, I thought the yellows absolutely hated Thaksins autocratic tendencies?


Come on, Sabang, I expect better than this of you. Who cares what the yellows or reds think. They are all the same. Difference faces, same actions and same desires - to be rich, the richest, the most powerful. A nice benevolent dictator to smash all their heads together, kick them into the street, remove their privileges and make them do a hard days works for their rice. Just what this place needs.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Sabang, the concept of autocracy, benign or otherwise, is one in which most Thai instinctively believe. Whereas in developed countries democracies resolve to representation of broad groups reaching consensus politics under a rule of law, the Thai simply see an election as a means of appointing what they hope is a " leader ".

Thaksin had all the panoply of the autocratic leader's attributes but unfortunately transpired to be nothing more than a fraudulent, murderous incompetent whose propaganda far exceeded his ability to satisfy his megalomania.

The Thai have embraced this coup readily and why not. They have order now, a leader and as long as they can fill their rice bowls they won't give a toss if the autocracy helps itself to the cake once in a while.

They are natural fascists but in the context of their society that's quite normal.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Frankly, I have no idea what it is you are arguing here. What on earth has free will got to do with the Thai, their society and democracy? Have you forgotten this is a Buddhist state? Asians, particularly the Thai, have no interest in abstracts and cannot entertain them for long. One of the many reasons why they have no real culture beyond the folkloric and certainly why they have no social development beyond the feudal.

----------


## rickschoppers

At least one year before elections, minimum.

----------


## Troy

^ What if it ends up being a Greek style seven years or longer?

----------


## rickschoppers

^
I think I said minimum. More than likely longer, a lot longer.

----------


## pseudolus

> What on earth has free will got to do with the Thai, their society and democracy?


About the same as it has to do with western democracy.....

----------


## Seekingasylum

That is simply not true. Clearly, you have no understanding of Thai society, it's cultural behaviors and the stratification within which it operates. Obligation, rank and function determines outcome, not " free will ".

----------


## terry57

Some one has been banned EH.  555555

----------


## hillbilly

This problem about corruption has raised it's ugly head in my family. The question was posed. If you were stopped by the Thai police would you pay or accept the ticket. Pay immediately was the answer as we do not want to waste our time.

Until this attitude stops nothing will change.

And this comes from an educated wife who attended many of the protest sites.

My wife's sister who is a goverment official is in charge of distributing the 30% overcharge.

The longer I live here, the less I know...

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> Pay immediately was the answer as we do not want to waste our time.  Until this attitude stops nothing will change.


See, I think they're spot on, and your thinking is masochistic and strange. Why would you want to spend more time and effort than necessary on a fine?

Do you enjoy being inconvenienced and fined heavily?

----------


## Butterfly

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> ^
> So what kind of government would work well in Thailand?
> 
> 
> A benevolent dictator just long enough to improve the education in the country with the people able to think and question rather than passively accept being rammed up the wrong'un by the yellows and the reds.


hence Thaksin support by the Yellow thugs in the early 2000

----------


## Butterfly

> That’s hardly the case. She was secretary to the keeper of the keys (May E.U. a red shirt that has left the country). She knows where the bodies are buried (she kept the records of gunmen and payments made).


let's hope they will interrogate her and get all the gory details about what Thaksin has been doing behind closed doors

----------


## Butterfly

> The day is coming, when the thai will take their own country back.


 :rofl:

----------


## Dandyhole

No, still nothing in there yet comes anywhere near " self determination " for the thai people.

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by thaimeme
> 
> ....yet, not question the benevolent dictator?
> 
> 
> A benevolent dictator would encourage this, surely? 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why not revert back to an absolute?
Realistically, this might be quite favourable to the greater populous.
It's already in place anyway. Just make it "more" official.

----------


## zygote1

> ^ What if it ends up being a Greek style seven years or longer?


Hopefully we do not see the rise of radical groups who seek out and murder  of political targets because that's what repression usually leads to. And hopefully, it does not create the selfishness that the Greek system created.

----------


## thaimeme

> This problem about corruption has raised it's ugly head in my family. The question was posed. If you were stopped by the Thai police would you pay or accept the ticket. Pay immediately was the answer as we do not want to waste our time.
> 
> Until this attitude stops nothing will change.
> 
> And this comes from an educated wife who attended many of the protest sites.
> 
> My wife's sister who is a goverment official is in charge of distributing the 30% overcharge.
> 
> The longer I live here, the less I know...


Yep. Just when you think you've figured it all out....

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> ^
> So what kind of government would work well in Thailand?
> 
> 
> A benevolent dictator


A Thai Lee Kwan Yew would seem to fit the bill.  

Determined, autocratic, visioned, and only minimally corrupt.

----------


## Pragmatic

> A Thai Lee Kwan Yew would seem to fit the bill.


But would the Thai people accept the discipline?

----------


## sabang

Sanctions on the way-

*EU ministers to take first measures over Thai military coup: source*

Brussels - _EU foreign ministers are expected to call on Thailand's military rulers Monday to restore democratic rule "urgently" as the bloc takes initial punitive measures against the coup leaders, an EU diplomat said.

Last month, the European Union said there had to be "a clear timetable" for fresh elections after the military ousted the Thai government and imposed martial law.

Ministers will "call on the military to restore urgently democratic government and respect human rights and freedoms," the EU diplomat said Thursday.

"It cannot be business as usual," the diplomat said ahead of Monday’s meeting of all 28 foreign ministers in Luxembourg.

Accordingly, ministers are expected to agree that official visits be suspended, that a partnership and cooperation accord not be signed and that member states review military cooperation with Bangkok.

The meeting will also "signal that there is more to come" if there is no response, said the diplomat, who asked not to be named._
EU ministers to take first measures over Thai military coup: source - The Nation

*EU may delay signing pact with Thailand*

_The European Union has decided it will delay signing an agreement on closer economic and political ties with Thailand and is demanding a swift return to democracy, a draft document seen by Reuters on Wednesday showed._
EU may delay signing pact with Thailand - The Nation

----------


## sabang

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> A Thai Lee Kwan Yew would seem to fit the bill.
> 
> 
> But would the Thai people accept the discipline?


would the yellows accept the vote that elected him?

----------


## Seekingasylum

Usual empty rhetoric from a somewhat febrile organization content to utter platitudes and banalities in lieu of any substantive action that may prejudice their position. This sort of communique is essentially a signal nothing is going to happen unless they don't receive an equally vacuous statement from the Thai in reciprocation.

I have watched the General giving his broadcast tonight. Seems there is a root and branch intention to change things. Perhaps the chap is just realizing the moment has come when the man cometh. Actually quite impressed not least because he has identified the corrosive culture of corruption has permeated all of society and to address it one must understand the devil is in the detail. The singling out of the motorcycle mafia is interesting and suggests he is serious about effecting change rather than its appearance. Yes, the jury is out but I think the Thai are at a watershed moment. If they can organise a decent pedestrian crossing system in Bangkok I'll begin to  believe it.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> I have watched the General giving his broadcast tonight. Seems there is a root and branch intention to change things. Perhaps the chap is just realizing the moment has come when the man cometh. Actually quite impressed not least because he has identified the corrosive culture of corruption has permeated all of society and to address it one must understand the devil is in the detail. The singling out of the motorcycle mafia is interesting and suggests he is serious about effecting change rather than its appearance. Yes, the jury is out but I think the Thai are at a watershed moment.


Wicked mate - finger on the pulse.




> If they can organise a decent pedestrian crossing system in Bangkok I'll begin to believe it.


As far fetched as that might seem - we could be pleasantly surprised  :Smile:

----------


## Gerbil

> If they can organise a decent pedestrian crossing system in Bangkok I'll begin to believe it.


I hope he has fuckwits who cannot understand how to use an ATM and stand there mindlessly pressing buttons, on his list to be reeducated.

----------


## taxexile

The more I see of the general, the more I warm to him. I reckon he will achieve his aims of cleaning the place up and ridding the streets and government agencies of many of the protected cockroaches that make life so difficult and inconvenient for many.

Cutting back the on the influence and thuggish powers of the many street level thugs and those higher up the food chain that empower them will make a lot of people here happy, both thai and Tourist.

He will of course make many enemies as he prosecutes his crusade, I do hope someone is watching his back.

I also think this could be a turning point for the country, so long as he retains and is able to wield absolute power over the next few months.

Thailand has needed this for a long time.

When hes finished here, send him to the UK to sort out the feckless chavs, crims and scroungers that drag Britain down.







> Junta seeks to clean up Thailand's image as haven for crime, vice and corruption
> 
> June 20, 2014 | 5:42 a.m. EDT
> By JOCELYN GECKER, Associated Press
> 
> BANGKOK (AP) — Thailand's new ruling junta doesn't like the way the country is portrayed in the movies as a haven for drugs, thugs, lawlessness and ladies of the night.
> 
> It's not that the movies are entirely wrong. But the junta chief says Thailand should be ashamed of its image, and has embarked on a cleanup campaign.
> 
> ...

----------


## Seekingasylum

Pausing at the top of escalators and letting doors swing behind them without first looking if some one is following are next on the agenda but perhaps we should keep our expectations a bit more realistic for the time being.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Apropos the above report, may we expect he will now be arresting the four main boiler room thieves currently in Thailand who are reaping the benefit of their crimes through the operation of their businesses bought by money laundered and funnelled into the Eclipse Co., Bangkok? And the arrest of several notorious fugitives from British justice who have enjoyed the protection of the local police?

Perhaps he is serious. We await developments.

----------


## terry57

> This problem about corruption has raised it's ugly head in my family. The question was posed.
> 
>  If you were stopped by the Thai police would you pay or accept the ticket. Pay immediately was the answer as we do not want to waste our time.




Well if one had not broken the law there would be no reason to pay anything would there.

They do you a favor by letting you pay them off at a reduced price and saved you the hassle of going to the pig station and paying full price.

Ever think of that. ? 

Oh no, so you would rather go to the pig station, spend hours there and pay more.  :Confused: 

Bullshit on that one.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> When hes finished here, send him to the UK to sort out the feckless chavs, crims and scroungers that drag Britain down.


[/QUOTE]

Steady on Tax, I know the Welsh can be buggers but that's a bit strong.

----------


## terry57

> See, I think they're spot on, and your thinking is masochistic and strange. Why would you want to spend more time and effort than necessary on a fine?
> 
> Do you enjoy being inconvenienced and fined heavily?




Something not right with that Hillbilly. Another strange one who wants it both ways.

----------


## Albert Shagnastier

> The more I see of the general, the more I warm to him. I reckon he will achieve his aims of cleaning the place up and ridding the streets and government agencies of many of the protected cockroaches that make life so difficult and inconvenient for many.


Looking good so far - let's hope it continues.




> Pausing at the top of escalators and letting doors swing behind them without first looking if some one is following are next on the agenda


Let's crawl before we walk eh?
 :Smile:

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> If they can organise a decent pedestrian crossing system in Bangkok I'll begin to believe it.
> 
> 
> I hope he has fuckwits who cannot understand how to use an ATM and stand there mindlessly pressing buttons, on his list to be reeducated.


Yeah....that's pressing and important. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## taxexile

> They do you a favor by letting you pay them off at a reduced price and saved you the hassle of going to the pig station and paying full price.


what about those who have committed no offence, yet still get detained by the police due to some whim or other, and cannot afford to pay even the reduced price.

Should the amount of money you have decide how the police treat you?

Or is extortion an perfectly acceptable method of law enforcement in your world.





> Ever think of that. ?

----------


## Troy

> See, I think they're spot on, and your thinking is masochistic and strange. Why would you want to spend more time and effort than necessary on a fine?
> 
> Do you enjoy being inconvenienced and fined heavily?


Strange as it may seem, I have total respect for the ex and her attitude. If she thought they were wrong she refused to pay the police fines to the point where she made them get their boss and waited an hour or two until he arrived, she would shout at him until he apologised that his sub-ordinates had made a mistake and then we would be on our way. If she had made a mistake then she demanded a ticket to pay at the police station. This was around 2005/2006 and that pick-up is hardly ever stopped nowadays...... Police are petrified of it....

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> See, I think they're spot on, and your thinking is masochistic and strange. Why would you want to spend more time and effort than necessary on a fine?
> 
> Do you enjoy being inconvenienced and fined heavily?
> 
> 
> Strange as it may seem, I have total respect for the ex and her attitude. If she thought they were wrong she refused to pay the police fines to the point where she made them get their boss and waited an hour or two until he arrived, she would shout at him until he apologised that his sub-ordinates had made a mistake and then we would be on our way. If she had made a mistake then she demanded a ticket to pay at the police station. This was around 2005/2006 and that pick-up is hardly ever stopped nowadays...... Police are petrified of it....


Good for her!

----------


## Sumbitch

I haven't seen mentioned in this thread (apologies for not reading all the links) that the curfew has been totally lifted in Chiang Mai. Correct? So where, exactly, does it still apply?

----------


## rickschoppers

^^^^
Have to agree with Tax on this one. The majority of fines are for fabricated charges. It just depends on how hungry the BIB are since there have been times I have only received a warning.

Of course there were other times I had to pay for staying in the left lane too long which should not even be an infraction along with many of the other bogus reasons to collect fines.

----------


## Thormaturge

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> If they can organise a decent pedestrian crossing system in Bangkok I'll begin to believe it.
> 
> 
> I hope he has fuckwits who cannot understand how to use an ATM and stand there mindlessly pressing buttons, on his list to be reeducated.


Or at least limit them to no more than five accompanying family members/friends and perhaps five minutes to figure out their PIN.

----------


## KEVIN2008

Published: 23 Jun 2014 at 07.15 | Viewed: 74,357 | Comments: 28Newspaper section: NewsWriter: Nauvarat Suksamran 


*People’s Democratic Reform Committee leader Suthep Thaugsuban has been advising the junta chief on how to unseat the Thaksin regime since 2010, Mr Suthep revealed at the weekend.  
*
READ MORE:   Suthep in talks with Prayuth

Interesting comments to the bottom of page.....

----------


## Bangyai

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> ^
> So what kind of government would work well in Thailand?
> 
> 
> A benevolent dictator .


Like Thaksin you mean  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


I read lots of history books. Why, I have even devoted a thread to the subject :

https://teakdoor.com/the-multimedia-f...y-channel.html (Teak Doors History Channel)

However, I don't recal too many ' benevelont dictators ' . Nonetheless, I will reserve the back of a postage stamp for any names I run across in future. Meanwhile , I could easily fill a couple of sheets of A4 with the names of less than benevoloent dictators. 

I hate to be a party pooper but you will not find a really benevolent dictator in Thailand that would stand up to any close scrutiny by independant bodies. 

What you have now in Thailand is not a benevelant dictator so get that right out of your head straight off. It amazes me to read the unctuous praise being showered upon the general by some of TD's Thailand newbies. 
The good and saintly general tackles several problems the expat community has bitched about for ages and they shower praises on his unworthy head. The very same posters who bitch about the rural voters selling their vote to unscrupulous politicians have been totally bought out by the general for a lot less , as its costing the good general nothing out of his own pocket.

Meanwhile, he has put his own hand picked people into every ministry and financial institution and approved a 3 trillion baht budget ( when everyone thought a 2 million baht budget in the hands of the wrong people was bad enough ). In approving this budget , all future projects must pass military scrutiny before approval....no checks and balances that people often moaned about before. And of course, future potential contracters for all these infastructure projects won't have to grease the general and his army will they ?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Backhanders ...........moi ? says the general ( yes , the same one who backed the bomb detectors , blimp and submarines to the hilt ) . Has a tiger changed it's stripes here ? Has a crook seen the light and come clean ?

But of course ......I'm forgetting ...he's a great guy isn't he ? I mean...Lumpini park to Khao Sahn and not a dissident voice in sight. Great innit ? I mean...if you don't see anything unpleasant in front of your nose it must be awesomely good innit ? And if a few sarny munching book reading people get hustled away...so what ? And if all the press is now forbidden to report on anything negative about the coup....so what ? And if the army creams of billions from allocated contracts in the next year and any reports on it are forbidden with dire consequences.....why its for the good of everyone isn't it. Just as long as its not Thaksin robbing the people then a dictator is fine by many TD members.

But please....lets not get carried away and imagine he is being benevolent.
Don't forget.....populist policies have ulterior motives.

----------


## sabang

> .populist policies have ulterior motives.


beware of geeks bearing gifts.

_The Suan Dusit Poll reported last weekend that 72.7% of those questioned thought "the country has a better atmosphere". It's rather a typical response. A month after Yingluck Shinawatra was appointed primeprime minister in 2011, polls gave her a 73% approval rating. The 2006 coup-maker, Gen Sonthi Boonyaratglin, scored 84% approval in the first Suan Dusit poll.  

...It's time for Gen Prayuth, and his inner circles of advisers and minister-equivalents, to level with the nation. Like any other new regime, military or elected, Gen Prayuth owes the country a policy speech, laying out his major plans and programmes. General goals are easily stated, simply because they are the goals of everyone in the country_ 
NCPO must level with us | Bangkok Post: opinion

----------


## FloridaBorn

> The Suan Dusit Poll reported last weekend that 72.7% of those questioned thought "the country has a better atmosphere".


Well of course it does, the majority of Thai's abhor confrontation so since both sides are currently squelched and out of the press etc, while the majority hide their eyes, what else is there that's going to upset the apple cart?

Always curious though "the country"? How does one take the entire countries pooling in such short order? More likely they took a small sampling of a hundred people from downtown Bangkok and drew the conclusion.

----------


## KEVIN2008

AFP: Junta 'disappointed' after EU cuts official contacts

Thailand's junta said Monday it was "disappointed" by the European Union's decision to halt all official visits to the kingdom and suspend the signing of a cooperation accord after last month's coup.

The junta, formally known as the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), has curtailed civil liberties by banning public protests, arresting demonstrators, censoring media and temporarily detaining hundreds of critics for questioning since it seized power on May 22.

"We are not angry, but we are disappointed and regret the EU decision," junta spokesman Werachon Sukondhapatipak told AFP.

He added that Europeans do not understand the situation in Thailand or the military "justification of taking control of the country's administration".

Army chief Prayut Chan-o-Cha has said he was forced to seize power after nearly seven months of anti-government protests which saw 28 people killed and hundreds of others wounded.

European Union foreign ministers on Monday condemned the military takeover and agreed punitive measures to back up calls for an urgent return to democratic rule.

The ministers halted all official visits to Thailand and suspended the signing of a partnership and cooperation accord with Bangkok, a statement said.

Expressing "extreme concern" at developments, ministers said the military should restore "as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the constitution, through credible and inclusive elections".

Opponents of the military regime accuse the junta of using the unrest in Thailand as a pretext for a long-planned power grab by the military-backed royalist establishment which loathes Thaksin Shinawatra, a billionaire former premier who sits at the heart of Thailand's political schism.
The junta has ruled out elections for at least a year to pass new political reforms  including the drafting of a new constitution  which it says is necessary to end years of political turmoil.

"We're just asking for time. We're asking our international friends to be a little more patient," said Werachon, insisting that Thailand had not given up on democracy.

"We will return to democracy, elections will be held in the future," he stressed. "We urge the EU to reconsider the situation."

AFP: Junta &#039;disappointed&#039; after EU cuts official contacts | Coconuts Bangkok

----------


## sabang

Bravo this man-

"The sort of reconciliation that Thailand needs is a process by which its putative social elites, their ostensibly middle-class hangers-on in Bangkok and the Thai military learn to reconcile themselves to the country that Thailand has become."

_Michael Montesano, visiting research fellow, Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, Singapore_

----------


## sabang

> How does one take the entire countries pooling in such short order?


Oh, don't get me started on Thai polls.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Pic of the Day-

_ Lt Col Wanchana Sawasdee, better known in showbiz circles as "Colonel Bird", joins the "returning happiness to all Thais" activities in Pathum Thani. (Photo by Pongpat Wongyala)_

----------


## Exit Strategy

> "We are not angry, but we are disappointed and regret the EU decision," junta spokesman Werachon Sukondhapatipak told AFP.


Yeah you no angry, what would you do if you were angry? Nuke EU? Laughter is the best medicine...

Fact is, junta is on the wrong side. US, UK, Australia and EU condemning. Return to democracy and some of these bad things are over...

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Bravo this man-
> 
> "The sort of reconciliation that Thailand needs is a process by which its putative social elites, their ostensibly middle-class hangers-on in Bangkok and the Thai military learn to reconcile themselves to the country that Thailand has become."
> 
> _Michael Montesano, visiting research fellow, Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, Singapore_


What is it about clueless academics and their daft observations based on nothing more than intellectual chaff harvested from the broken ground of their limitations.

What on earth does this buffoon mean by that statement " reconcile themselves to the country that Thailand has become "? 

Poor buggers would rather die than give up their Holy Grail in spreading what they understand to be " democracy ". To admit the truth, that democracy is not fit for many societies, is to shake the very foundation of their being.

----------


## taxexile

Yet the eu is still quite happy to do business and indulge in full diplomatic relations with the gulf state dictatorships.


"


> The sort of reconciliation that Thailand needs is a process by which its putative social elites, their ostensibly middle-class hangers-on in Bangkok and the Thai military learn to reconcile themselves to the country that Thailand has become."


What nonsense.

So they should just reconcile themselves to a country plagued with the most corrupt and lawless administration it has ever had.

The EU would do better to see that a large proportion of the population see the coup as the only answer to Thailands ills.

----------


## Sumocakewalk

This was recently posted to the U.S. Department of State web site. Seems to provide clarification of the U.S. position towards the coup. No new sanctions are announced. Apologies for the length.

******************************************

*Thailand: A Democracy at Risk*
Testimony  Scot Marciel
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Bureau of East Asian and Pacific Affairs
Testimony Before the House Committee  on Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific
Washington, DC

 June 24, 2014

  Chairman Chabot and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the  opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the recent coup in  Thailand.
*
The U.S.-Thai Relationship*

Mr. Chairman, last year, we commemorated 180 years of friendly relations with  Thailand, one of our five treaty allies in Asia. We have enjoyed very close  relations, and U.S.-Thai cooperation on regional and global law enforcement,  non-proliferation, and security has been extremely good. Our militaries engage  in a wide range of important bilateral and multilateral joint exercises.  Thailand is host to the largest such event in the Asia-Pacific region, the  annual Cobra Gold joint exercise, which brings together the armed forces of 27  countries, including the United States, Thailand, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea,  Malaysia, Singapore, and a number of observer countries. These exercises provide  invaluable opportunities for our militaries to develop important relationships  and increase coordination and cooperation, including on responding to  humanitarian disasters.

For many years, Thailand also has been an important partner on humanitarian  goals and priorities. It hosted hundreds of thousands of refugees after the  Vietnam War, and even today hosts 140,000 refugees, including  politically-sensitive minority groups which face problems or persecution  elsewhere in the region. Thailand has long played a constructive role in the  Asia-Pacific region, including as a member of ASEAN and APEC. In recent years,  we have worked closely with the Thais to respond to natural disasters in the  region, including when neighboring Burma was hit by a devastating cyclone in  2008. We also work closely together on health issues, one of our major  cornerstones for successful bilateral cooperation with the presence of the  Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Armed Forces Research  Institute of Medical Science (AFRIMS), where they have helped develop the only  vaccine for HIV/AIDS ever proven efficacious in human trials.

Commercially, the United States is both Thailands third-largest bilateral  trading partner with more than $37 billion in two-way trade, and its  third-largest investor with more than $13 billion in cumulative foreign direct  investment. Thailand has the second-largest economy in Southeast Asia, after  Indonesia, and our American Chamber of Commerce in Bangkok represents a diverse  body of more than 800 companies doing business across nearly all sectors of the  Thai economy.

Our Embassy in Bangkok is a regional hub for the U.S. government and remains  one of our largest missions in Asia, with over 3,000 Thai and American employees  representing over 60 departments and agencies. We enjoy close people-to-people  ties, and more than 5,000 Peace Corps Volunteers have served successfully in  Thailand over the past 52 years.

So for all these reasons, we care deeply about our relationship and about the  people of Thailand. For many years, we were pleased to see Thailand build  prosperity and democracy, becoming in many ways a regional success story as well  as a close partner on shared priorities such as counterterrorism, wildlife  trafficking, transnational crime, energy security, and conservation of the  environment.
*
Thailands Political Situation and Coup*

Over the past decade, however, Thailand has grappled with an internal  political debate that has increasingly divided not only the political class but  society as a whole. Describing this complex debate would take more time than we  have today, but in the simplest terms it is between supporters and opponents of  former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, whose approach to politics and  governance gave him significant influence but also made him a polarizing figure.  The debate also reflects deeper conflicts between different segments of society  based both on socio-economic status and on geography. For the past ten years,  Thai politics has been dominated by debate, protests, and even occasional  violence between these groups competing for political influence. These divisions  led to a coup in 2006 and again, unfortunately, last month.

This latest coup came at the end of six months of renewed, intense political  struggle between rival groups that included months-long demonstrations in the  streets of Bangkok and occupations of government buildings. Efforts to forge a  compromise failed, and on May 22 the armed forces staged a coup. Military  leaders argued that the coup was necessary to prevent violence, end political  paralysis, and create the conditions for a stronger democracy.

Our position during the past decade of turbulence, and specifically during  the recent six months of turmoil, has been to avoid taking sides in Thailands  internal political competition, while consistently stressing our support for  democratic principles and commitment to our relationship with the Thai nation.  On numerous occasions, we publicly and privately stated our opposition to a coup  or other extra-constitutional actions, stressing that the only solution in a  democracy is to let the people select the leaders and policies they prefer  through elections. We consistently communicated that message directly to Thai  officials, at high levels, through our Ambassador in Bangkok and during the  visits of senior State Department officials to Thailand, as well as through both  high-level and working-level military channels.

When the coup nonetheless took place, we immediately reiterated our  principled opposition to military intervention. Beginning with Secretary Kerrys  statement on May 22, we have consistently criticized the military coup and  called for the restoration of civilian rule, a return to democracy, and full  respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the freedoms of  expression and peaceful assembly. We have told Thai officials that we understood  their frustration with their long-standing political problems, but also stressed  that coups not only do not solve these problems, but are themselves a step  backwards.
 Initially, we held out hope that  as happened with the 2006 coup  the  military would move relatively quickly to transfer power to a civilian  government and move towards free and fair elections. However, recent events have  shown that the current military coup is both more repressive and likely to last  longer than the last one. The ruling military council has continuously summoned,  detained, and intimidated hundreds of political figures, academics, journalists,  online commentators, and peaceful protesters. It continues to censor local media  sources and the internet, and has in the past weeks blocked international media  as well. Actions by military authorities have raised anxiety among minority  groups and migrant workers living within Thailand. For example, recent reports  indicate that close to 200,000 Cambodian workers have fled Thailand out of fear  that the military council will crack down on undocumented workers.

The military government has said that it will appoint an interim government  by September, and has laid out a vague timeline for elections within  approximately 15 months. Its stated intention, during the period of military  rule, is to reduce conflict and partisanship within society, thereby paving the  way for a more harmonious political environment when civilians return to  control. Meanwhile, the military government has begun a campaign to remove  officials perceived to be loyal to the previous government. Many board members  including chairs (mostly appointed by former Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra  and former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra) of Thailands 56 state owned  enterprises have been strongly encouraged to resign their positions in favor of  military-selected replacements. Rapid, sweeping changes are being proposed in  the energy and labor sectors, and greater foreign investment restrictions are  being considered in industries like telecommunications.

We do not see, however, how the coup and subsequent repressive actions will  produce the political compromise and reconciliation that Thailand so desperately  needs. We do not believe that true reconciliation can come about through fear of  repression. The deep-rooted underlying issues and differences of opinion that  fuel this division can only be resolved by the people of Thailand through  democratic processes. Like most Thai, we want Thailand to live up to its  democratic ideals, strengthen its democratic institutions, and return peacefully  to democratic governance through elections.
*
Protecting Our Interests and Preserving Democracy*

Our interests include the preservation of peace and democracy in Thailand, as  well as the continuation of our important partnership with Thailand over the  long-term. We remain committed to the betterment of the lives of the Thai people  and to Thailand regaining its position of regional leadership, and we believe  the best way to achieve that is through a return to a democratically elected  government.
 The coup and post-coup repression have made it impossible for our  relationship with Thailand to go on with business as usual. As required by  law, we have suspended more than $4.7 million of security-related assistance. In  addition, we have cancelled high-level engagements, exercises, and a number of  training programs with the military and police. For example, in coordination  with the Department of Defense, we halted bilateral naval exercise CARAT  (Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training), which was underway during the coup,  and canceled the planned bilateral Hanuman Guardian army exercise. We continue  to review other programs and engagements, and will consider further measures as  circumstances warrant. Many other nations have expressed similar views. Our hope  is that this strong international message, plus pressure from within Thailand,  will lead to an easing of repression and an early return to democracy.

At the same time, mindful of our long-term strategic interests, we remain  committed to maintaining our enduring friendship with the Thai people and  nation, including the military. The challenge facing the United States is to  make clear our support for a rapid return to democracy and fundamental freedoms,  while also working to ensure we are able to maintain and strengthen this  important friendship and our security alliance over the long term.

Moving forward, it is important that the transition to civilian rule be  inclusive, transparent, timely, and result in a return to democracy through free  and fair elections that reflect the will of the Thai people. After democracy is  restored, we fully hope and intend that Thailand, our longtime friend, will  continue to be a crucial partner in Asia for many decades to come.
*
Conclusion*

In closing, let me make one final point. Strong, enduring, bipartisan  Congressional support for our efforts to move Thailand back towards its  democratic tradition and to preserve our long-term friendship and interests are  essential for a successful outcome.

Thank you for inviting me to testify on this important topic. I am happy to  answer any questions you might have.

Link:
Thailand: A Democracy at Risk

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Strong, enduring, bipartisan Congressional support for our efforts to move Thailand back towards its democratic tradition and to preserve our long-term friendship


This is diplomatic hard talk against the junta. Kerry said this before, now Congress.

----------


## Butterfly

Kerry is a fool, should shut his big mouth

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Kerry is a fool, should shut his big mouth


Words of a fool?

"I am disappointed by the decision of the Thai military to suspend the constitution and take control of the government"

"There is no justification for this military coup"

"I urge the restoration of civilian government immediately, a return to democracy, and respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, such as press freedoms"

This is not just some worker bee speaking. It is the Secretary of State. It is the United States. 

In full

----------


## Butterfly

> "There is no justification for this military coup"


what does he know ? nothing as usual,




> "I urge the restoration of civilian government immediately, a return to democracy, and respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, such as press freedoms"


is he talking about America ? maybe he should look in his own backyard. What a silly blowhard.




> This is not just some worker bee speaking. It is the Secretary of State. It is the United States.


yes, a foreign policy retard, we know that already, no need to remind us.

----------


## Butterfly

Obama has terrible taste when it comes to his administration

Clinton, Kerry and the 2008 crisis dream team as economic advisers

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by KEVIN2008
> 
> "We are not angry, but we are disappointed and regret the EU decision," junta spokesman Werachon Sukondhapatipak told AFP.
> 
> 
> Yeah you no angry, what would you do if you were angry? Nuke EU? Laughter is the best medicine...
> 
> Fact is, junta is on the wrong side. US, UK, Australia and EU condemning. Return to democracy and some of these bad things are over...


_Return_ to democracy?

There has never been a democratic state to return to.
If so - when was this?

----------


## Waid

> Bravo this man-
> 
> "The sort of reconciliation that Thailand needs is a process by which its putative social elites, their ostensibly middle-class hangers-on in Bangkok and the Thai military learn to reconcile themselves to the country that Thailand has become."
> 
> _Michael Montesano, visiting research fellow, Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, Singapore_


The reality is that Thailand has been infected with the 'Western Disease' - materialism & rampant greed. How does the genie get put back in the bottle?

----------


## Exit Strategy

> Originally Posted by Exit Strategy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by KEVIN2008
> ...


OK. Return to most democratic stage Thailand has seen.

Now, is that Yingluck administration? 

I am quite sure it is not Mark or Khun Chulanont :Smile:

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by thaimeme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Exit Strategy
> ...


No....you must've missed the pleasantly twist sarcasm from my post above.
There has never been a true [deep] democratic stage here.

Get a clue, FFS.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> There has never been a true [deep] democratic stage here.


Of course there has been no "true [deep] democratic stage " here ("deep" is why I agree). But we have to start somewhere. 

And it has begun.

Democracy, I say that is where we should head to, no sarcasm, full stop.

----------


## Dandyhole

Why is the thai fascist establishment so afraid of democracy , and in the form of self determination by one person one vote?

----------


## thaimeme

> Why is the thai fascist establishment so afraid of democracy , and in the form of self determination by one person one vote?


Why does any establishment fear this?

Don't want to break up the club atmosphere.

----------


## crippen

Time for a change avatar from Yinglook I think !

----------


## FloridaBorn

Can't answer a question I've been asking since his candidacy and subsequent nomination, it's certain I wasn't consulted first.

----------


## longway

> Originally Posted by thaimeme
> 
> There has never been a true [deep] democratic stage here.
> 
> 
> Of course there has been no "true [deep] democratic stage " here ("deep" is why I agree). But we have to start somewhere. 
> 
> And it has begun.
> 
> Democracy, I say that is where we should head to, no sarcasm, full stop.


According to Freedom House ranking, whatever thats worth, and whatever that is its worth more than your estimation, Thailand was at its most democratic prior to Thaksin taking office; so getting ridding the Thaksin influence and the disastrous 1997 constitution  is heading in the right direction.

But of course for most of you 'democracy activists' on here, actual democracy is of no interest, its just a word you use as a smoke screen, as all you really want is to see Thaksin back as PM, so you will just continue  'the amart they baaaaaad' theme ad nauseam and never acknowledge as bad as they are and they are pretty 'baaaaaad' , the vast majority of the politicians are worse and the last thing democracy needs is leaving these w@nkers free rein once elections begin again. :ourrules:

----------


## Exit Strategy

> disastrous 1997 constitution


What a weird thing to say. That 1997 constitution was globally seen as most democratic constitution ever in this country. Although way later, some PAD hard yellow fascists - you, I take are one of them - disagreed and started (amongst other things, pointless little war) the downward spiral of the county with govt and airport takeovers and now judicial coup and then military rule, as in sh*t hits the fan and that's where we are now. Read fking Kerry and EU statements if you feel left out of the loop.

----------


## longway

^ As usual the feeble 'the amart they baaaad' dance, with a one eyed potted connection to the red lala land version of reality.

The only connection to democracy you guys have that you use that word in every other sentence, but everything you support is devoid of any substance of actual democracy nor is it even connected considering what's best for the people of Thailand.

You either conmsider democracy a religion, where as long as a ritual of election has taken place, the ones elected have become the 'anointed ones' by that election can do whatever they like, as they are now the 'chosen' or you are just a Thaksin hack.

But anyway, the 1997 constitution was  a disaster as it instigated  a power struggle between various factions that has nothing whatsoever to do with democracy, and anyone who doesnt have their head up their own arse knows that the last 8 years is just a game between various power brokers and if any of them win outright the average thai will be worse off, best thing is that no-one wins outright.

The coup is just a temporary phase where one side has the upper hand and will seek to even out the playing field and, whether you like it or not, this is what will make Thailand more democratic, as when neither groups dominate, the average thai will be more powerful in relation to them both. as long as this can be contained within some formal arrangment then Thailand can actually progress, this spilling out into the streets of the power struggle is a disaster.

Democracy - people are the sovereign power, its got nothing to do with politicians becoming pwoerful, that just the opposite of democracy.

----------


## leemo

> Originally Posted by thaimeme
> 
> There has never been a true [deep] democratic stage here.
> 
> 
> Of course there has been no "true [deep] democratic stage " here ("deep" is why I agree). But we have to start somewhere. 
> 
> And it has begun.
> 
> Democracy, I say that is where we should head to, no sarcasm, full stop.


Virtuous sentiments, but doomed to failure. I think it's pretty well established that what passes as democracy in the West is for the West, not for all. 

Best Thailand can hope for - which might work - is a return to Thai democracy. And yes, it did work, for generations, until someone got visions of the people being ready for a promotion. So what, people were systematically exploited by thieves and looters - was that only in Thailand? And is it such a terrible thing that you would risk wrecking the country for a shot at something you know in your bladder wouldn't and couldn't work?

Before you can seriously talk of anything more than Thai democracy, you first need to dismantle brick by brick and rebuild the entire abysmal Thai education system, which is designed to keep the people where their leaders believe they belong. Once you take a closer look at that, my guess is you will happily settle for the goal of Thai democracy.

----------


## Exit Strategy

> what passes as democracy in the West is for the West, not for all


I disagree. Democracy is the same for everyone. There are many democratic countries in Asia - the richest, most advanced countries here and in the world, which is not by accident. 




> rebuild the entire abysmal Thai education system, which is designed to keep the people where their leaders believe they belong


Totally agree. And rebuilding that is not going to be easy. But not all teachers are "bad". And education here when it comes to basics is way much better than in some countries.

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## rickschoppers

Speaking of democracy, look what happened to Russia after it became more "democratic." They are now enjoying the influx of money and have all but purchased Jomtien.

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## Exit Strategy

> what happened to Russia after it became more "democratic.


Russia did not become 'democratic'. 




> purchased Jomtien


I bloody hate that. Such a lovely place it was. Now signs in some weird russian script and russian or ukrainian or whatev gangstas killing people on the beach. How in the fck they get visas when good people have difficulties.

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## rickschoppers

*History of Russia (1992–present)*

                                                              From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Structural reform lowered the standard of living for most groups of  the population. Thus, reform created powerful political opposition.  *Democratization* opened the political channels for venting these  frustrations, thus translating into votes for anti-reform candidates,  especially those of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation  and its allies in the parliament. Russian voters, able to vote for  opposition parties in the 1990s, often rejected economic reforms and  yearned for the stability and personal security of the Soviet era. These  were the groups that had enjoyed the benefits of Soviet-era  state-controlled wages and prices, high state spending to subsidize  priority sectors of the economy, protection from competition with  foreign industries, and welfare entitlement programs.
 During the Yeltsin years in the 1990s, these groups were well  organized, voicing their opposition to reform through strong trade  unions, associations of directors of state-owned firms, and political  parties in the popularly elected parliament whose primary constituencies  were among those vulnerable to reform. A constant theme of Russian  history in the 1990s was the conflict between economic reformers and  those hostile to the new capitalism."

*Sound familiar??*

"*Elections*

 Voter turnout in the first round of the polling on June 16 was 69.8%.  According to returns announced on June 17, Yeltsin won 35% of the vote;  Zyuganov won 32%; Aleksandr Lebed, a populist ex-general, a surprisingly high 14.5%; liberal candidate Grigory Yavlinsky 7.4%; far-right nationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky 5.8%; and former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev  0.5%. With no candidate securing an absolute majority, Yeltsin and  Zyuganov went into a second round of voting. In the meantime, Yeltsin  co-opted a large segment of the electorate by appointing Lebed to the  posts of national security adviser and secretary of the Security  Council.
 In the end, Yeltsin's election tactics paid off. In the run-off on  July 3, with a turnout of 68.9%, Yeltsin won 53.8% of the vote and  Zyuganov 40.3%, with the rest (5.9%) voting "against all".[18] Moscow and Saint Petersburg  (formerly Leningrad) together provided over half of the incumbent  president's support, but he also did well in large cities in the Urals  and in the north and northeast. Yeltsin lost to Zyuganov in Russia's  southern industrial heartland. The southern stretch of the country  became known as the "red belt", underscoring the resilience of the Communist Party in elections since the breakup of the Soviet Union.[19]
 Although Yeltsin promised that he would abandon his unpopular neoliberal  austerity policies and increase public spending to help those suffering  from the pain of capitalist reforms, within a month of his election,  Yeltsin issued a decree canceling almost all of these promises.
 Right after the election, Yeltsin's physical health and mental  stability were increasingly precarious. Many of Yeltsin's executive  functions thus devolved upon a group of advisers (most of whom had close  links with the oligarchs)."


"After the success of political forces close to Putin in the December 1999 parliamentary elections,  Yeltsin evidentially felt confident enough in Putin that he resigned  from the presidency on December 31, six months before his term was due  to expire. This made Putin acting president and gave Putin ample  opportunity to position himself as frontrunner for the Russian presidential election held on March 26, 2000, which he won. The Chechen War figured prominently in the campaign. In February 2000, Russian troops entered Grozny, the Chechen capital, and a week before the election, Putin flew to Chechnya on a fighter jet, claiming victory."


*I guess when I see the word democratization and see elections being held within a country, I can only assume it can be considered a democracy.*


*Your definition may be much different than mine, but if it smells like a democracy and walks like a democracy, it must be a democracy.*

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## Exit Strategy

Yeltsin was the last good man standing, in power in Russia, despite being an alcoholic and all. Now - all they said they hated about US - corporate congress, military - has happened in Russia. SRVis very_smart, see Snowden.

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## rickschoppers

I agree with you there ES. Either way, I think the Russians are a lot better off now than they were in the 1950s-1990s.

Yes, a lot of gangs and illegal activity, but that comes with freedoms gained.

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## FloridaBorn

> Yes, a lot of gangs and illegal activity, but that comes with freedoms gained.


Actually they've always been there, very little has changed in that aspect except now they are more personally and publicly active outside their own borders then ever before. Very much like the Chinese.

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## Exit Strategy

> Yes, a lot of gangs and illegal activity, but that comes with freedoms gained.


In my - as I am branded by butterfly - stupid ignorant american world, freedoms must come with law enforcement.

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## rickschoppers

^
That too.

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## Sumocakewalk

On opinion piece from The Nation today:

**************************************************  ***************

The West might regret forcing Thailand into a corner
 Thanong Khanthong 
thanong@nationgroup.com June 27, 2014

  The United States and European Union have responded to the coup by announcing they will downgrade their relations with Thailand.

  Individual countries that have also issued strongly worded statements against the coup include the UK, France, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. A closer look reveals that the Europeans and Americans have joined forces to apply pressure on Thailand to hold an election as quickly as possible, release all political detainees, and ensure freedom of expression. The penalty for not doing so will be the imposition of more measures to isolate Thailand from the international community.

  This international pressure against Thailand is totally unjustified. Thailand has so far done nothing to harm the broad interests of the US or the EU. Business leaders representing the foreign chambers of commerce in Thailand have expressed confidence in the direction being taking to restore calm to the country.

  Without the coup, political polarisation would have got worse and threatened to tear apart the fabric of the social order. The authorities continue to discover caches of war weapons and ammunition around the country, stockpiled by hard-core supporters of the previous government. These weapons were intended to be used to create violence in Bangkok by militia following what is generally known as the Khon Kaen model. Through this arrangement, the armed rebels would stage a takeover of the 20 provinces in the Northeast in defiance of the Bangkok centre. No country in the world would allow this to happen. Isn't this model similar to what the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria is trying to achieve in the war-torn nations of Iraq and Syria?

   By pressuring Thailand to hold an election without first forging political reforms, the US and the EU are effectively asking that Thailand remain a divided nation. A weak and polarised Thailand could, indeed, benefit the US and EU. It would fit world powers' traditional divide-and-rule formula.

  The blatant interference in our internal affairs by superpowers in the Western world is unacceptable. As a sovereign and independent nation, Thailand has every right to put its house in order in its own way. Public opinion is mostly in favour of the coup, which has effectively restored order and ended the bloodshed. Now, the Thai people are looking forward to a reform process that hopefully will lay the foundation for political, economic and social stability. All now depends on the commitment and the capability of the military regime to guide Thailand through this transition.

  It is likely that US and EU relations with Thailand will deteriorate over the next three to six months. This is unfortunate. A slackening of ties would also hurt the overall standing of the Asean, with Thailand being at the core of the regional bloc. Other Asean members have so far stood idle while Thailand is bullied. If the US and EU continue to play hardball politics with Thailand, and Asean proves to be a paper tiger, Thailand might have no choice but to strengthen relations with China or Russia. The BRICS - Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa - are eager to expand their membership and should ready to welcome Thailand into the fold. If Thailand is driven into a corner, it will have no choice but to walk a new path in its international relations.

Link:
The West might regret forcing Thailand into a corner - The Nation

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## Warrior

> On opinion piece from The Nation today:
> 
> **************************************************  ***************
> 
> The West might regret forcing Thailand into a corner
>  Thanong Khanthong 
> thanong@nationgroup.com June 27, 2014
> 
>   The United States and European Union have responded to the coup by announcing they will downgrade their relations with Thailand.
> ...


The backbone of this article "_By pressuring Thailand to hold an election without first forging political reforms, the US and the EU are effectively asking that Thailand remain a divided nation._" is just an empty phrase.

Political reforms? Which reforms? How? To achieve what exactly?

Yes, I know the answer.

To solve a divide, you talk. Accept other opinions. You give and take.

To force reforms by the elite who think they know better than the poor, less educated majority, is just stupid. And bloody arrogant. And deepening the divide.

Reforms? My ass. Good luck.

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## pickel

> To solve a divide, you talk. Accept other opinions. You give and take.


Unfortunately, there is a certain law in Thailand that prevents the two sides from talking about the real issue. The only way reconciliation will work is if that law is taken off the books.

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## Exit Strategy

Khun Thanong is quite hardcore yellow.

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## Bangyai

> Public opinion is mostly in favour of the coup,


I don't think that would be apparent if it were put to the vote  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## leemo

> Originally Posted by Sumocakewalk
> 
> 
>  
>  Public opinion is mostly in favour of the coup, 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that would be apparent if it were put to the vote


Would be, after they detain the anti-coup voters.

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## thaimeme

> I agree with you there ES. Either way, I think the Russians are a lot better off now than they were in the 1950s-1990s.
> 
> Yes, a lot of gangs and illegal activity, but that comes with freedoms gained.


Freedoms gained.
The freedom to have become better mindless consumers that comes with a open and free democracy.

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## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by Warrior
> 
> To solve a divide, you talk. Accept other opinions. You give and take.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, there is a certain law in Thailand that prevents the two sides from talking about the real issue. The only way reconciliation will work is if that law is taken off the books.


This referenced issue and subsequent associated laws that you speak of Pickel, has historically been the root cause and problematic entity that guides and hinders political and social avenues here - regardless of opposing ideologies and identities.

Until such is wiped away from the landscape, nothing will change from the destructive and obvious revolving cycles that make up Thai society.

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## Exit Strategy

> Freedoms gained.
> The freedom to have become better mindless consumers that comes with a open and free democracy.


Some will become "mindless consumers". Some will not. Individual choice must be respected, alternative is oppression. Free market democracy with laws enforced is the only way, for you, me, the environment and the future. There is no Elysium.

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## Exit Strategy

World News... What Mr. Hitler says :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

> BANGKOK (AP)  Three months after overthrowing Thailand's last elected government, this Southeast Asian nation's junta leader is stepping out of his army uniform for good  to take up the post of prime minister in a move critics say will only extend his time at the helm and consolidate the military's grip on power.
> Thailand's junta-appointed legislature voted unanimously Thursday to name Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha to the post during a session in Bangkok.
> There was little doubt over the outcome since Prayuth was the only candidate.
> The 60-year-old leader is due to retire from the army next month and the change appears aimed in part at keeping him at the helm as the military implements sweeping political reforms.


The full article can be found at usatoday.com: Thai army ruler nominated as next prime minister

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## Waid

Predictable.

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## sabang

I wonder if he'll actually seek election one day? Once he's out of the military, he has every right to. Watch out Mark- he might be gunning for your job.

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## Waid

^ Yep - same team.

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## thaimeme

> ^ Yep - same team.


Yet, some aren't connection the dots. Nor will they ever...

The same old cycles continues.....though, the rhetoric is modified

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## KEVIN2008

*Imperfect democracy is something you can work at, a military dictatorship representing rich elites is not a solution.*

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## thaimeme

> *Imperfect democracy is something you can work at, a military dictatorship representing rich elites is not a solution.*


All political philosophies and systems [in practice] exist for that reason only.

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## koman

So far the General seems to be doing a far better job than any of his recent predecessors.  He has as much right and claim to become PM as anybody else.   It's results that matter. 

 Once he retires from the army and military rule ends he might just become a landslide winner in a free election because of his job performance.

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## Albert Shagnastier

"All governments are lying cocksuckers"

Bill Hicks.

RIP

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## thaimeme

> So far the General seems to be doing a far better job than any of his recent predecessors. He has as much right and claim to become PM as anybody else. It's results that matter. 
> 
> Once he retires from the army and military rule ends he might just become a landslide winner in a free election because of his job performance.


What makes you consider that such military rule will cease any time soon.....??

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## thaimeme

> "All governments are lying cocksuckers"
> 
> Bill Hicks.
> 
> RIP


Wisdom needn't be flowery nor profound - just straight forward.

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## koman

> Originally Posted by koman
> 
> 
> So far the General seems to be doing a far better job than any of his recent predecessors. He has as much right and claim to become PM as anybody else. It's results that matter. 
> 
> Once he retires from the army and military rule ends he might just become a landslide winner in a free election because of his job performance.
> 
> 
> What makes you consider that such military rule will cease any time soon.....??


I never suggested that it would be soon...whatever soon means.  There's a lot of fixing and cleaning up to be done,  and being as no civilian group has made any serious attempts to fix anything for a long time,  I expect the Generals will hang in there until they are satisfied that conditions are right for an attempt at reinstating "democracy"   

Perhaps the hogs will become accustomed to not having their snouts buried in the feeding trough during this period.  It takes time for old habits to change you know.... :Smile:     There's a lot of maybes involved, but we will just have to wait and see, won't we?

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## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by thaimeme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by koman
> ...


The present military leaders evolved from their military brethren of glorious past, whom wielded exclusive power from 1939-1959.....and then again from 1962-1977/1979 without yielding to any such whims of democracy. A minor and spotty military overlord throughout the 1980s and 1990s.

All, given the blessing from _The Family._ And functioned quite nicely domestically, as well as having extremely friendly relations with the usual and assorted foreign powers.

Wait and see.
Indeed.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> The Family






 :Smile:

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## Waid

^^ Agreed.

Some pundits feel that Thailand has pushed itself back some 60 years, with the recent power seizure.

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## Sumbitch

> Originally Posted by KEVIN2008
> 
> 
> *Imperfect democracy is something you can work at, a military dictatorship representing rich elites is not a solution.*
> 
> 
> All political philosophies and systems [in practice] exist for that reason only.


To represent the rich elites? Maybe in practice, not in theory. I was a political activist, in theory, for a revolution in the U.S. during my early 20s'. I have since come to the conclusion that the founders of the U.S. constitution truly did want 'government for, by and of the people' (that quote, btw, is from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, which, apparently were not his words originally. Also, having been an English teacher, I wanted to fully understand the difference between 'by the people' and 'of the people'. Definition of 'of': the relationship between the part and the whole: for example, 'the state of the union'. Definition of 'by': identifying the agent performing the action: 'The United States was attacked by Japan.')
So I therefore concluded the U.S. has had its revolution (and its civil war). As, KEVIN implies (maybe) military dictatorships are definitely not 'by' or 'of' the people. However, whether they can be 'for' the people (which may be argued is all that matters) is a different matter. 

1) I live in Chiangmai, which has certainly not been a hotbed of violent protest against the regime. 
2) I am not a Thai politico. I've read a number of posts in this tread but mainly at the beginning when I was concerned with the TV censorship and curfew restrictions. However, IMNSFHO, the thread is more about theory than practice (please to be corrected). And written by Western politicos with Western viewpoints. 

That said, if I ask my local coffee shop owner and co-worker about the political situation, with no one else around, they are hesitant but not fearful of offering an opinion. What they seem to agree on is that 1) this is typical (and laughable) of Thai politics and 2) maybe things will be better now. So, in my small poll of shop owners, it appears the current situation is a possible improvement on the old.

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## Sumbitch

> Once he retires from the army and military rule ends he might just become a landslide winner in a free election because of his job performance.


Problem solved! Government for, by and of the people. And expressive of another inherent aspect of Thai politics: mai pen rai.

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