#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > The Family Room >  >  Can I afford to be a father?

## Bruno

Hello,

I think this would be the correct place to voice this question, apologies if it's not!

So, just as the title stipulates, 'do you think I could afford to be a father in LOS'. I appreciate that many decide to raise a family in Thailand and contribute to the many varied gene pool's we have which produce some really great looking kids; I too would like to become a father one day, but I'm not sure my income would allow me too.

Basically, my own circumstance are, I am in my 30s and still studying for an academic future within education, and whilst my g/f is 26, has expressed her desire to have children on more than one occasion. Now, it's not simply an answer that requires me to be told 'wait a few years', it's rather the prospect of will I ever be able to afford to raise children in a country such as Thailand once all the factors are considered. 

It's a serious matter, one that shouldn't be taken to lightly, nor one that I wish to regret later in life If i decided not to have one. I have a fully paid for house, with no debts in LOS and as you know I am still studying, I do plan on working abroad from time to time whilst using my home as a base as this has been the plan from day one. My tgf works and I would say we are comfortable just as we are. 

My main concern is education, and the well being for a potential kid. School's are not cheap - at least not the ones I would wish for them to attend - and health care with BUPA is close on 50,000 baht per year for a young child up until the age of 6. 

If I factor in that once qualified, I would be then be the sole bread winner, then I very much doubt I could meet these requirements, whilst affording a comfortable life for myself and tgf that we have become used too. Perhaps I am over speculating this as most farang/Thai unions possibly survive on incomes much less than my expected one; nevertheless, I feel it is a valid point to raise and one which could ultimately affect my decision whether or not to start a family.  

I think my options are quite simply, carry on as I am which is great, or lead a restricted lifestyle that requires constant financial commitment which I fear I cannot support sufficiently.

Maybe I should just buy a dog!

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## Stinky

Buy your dog mate, from the way you're fretting it's all you're up to, maybe even go with a fish if the dog is too much to cope with. 
Kids are way too streeful for you.

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## Bruno

> Buy your dog mate, from the way you're fretting it's all you're up to, maybe even go with a fish if the dog is too much to cope with. 
> Kids are way too streeful for you.



That doesn't really help does it Sdigit? 

It is a well known fact that kids are 'the most' expensive decision anybody can make, I think I read somewhere in the region of a $250,000 outlay up to the age of 18. 

It is not really a state of me being "streeful" as you put it, more along the lines of me being to selfish and not wanting to live a life for the next 21 years by 'just getting by'.

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## Stinky

> Originally Posted by Sdigit
> 
> 
> Buy your dog mate, from the way you're fretting it's all you're up to, maybe even go with a fish if the dog is too much to cope with. 
> Kids are way too streeful for you.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't really help does it Sdigit? 
> ...


Apologies for the typo it's inforgivable of me, using a phone and great big fingers, you know how it is.

So, Kids are Expensive eh?  Who would've thunk it. 
Not that it matters, you obviously want a life free from hassle so you obviously ain't daddy material.   

Good luck with the fish  :Smile:

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## Bruno

[/QUOTE] you obviously want a life free from hassle [/QUOTE]

Defiantly, this is my point exactly! I got friends who have kids and they are all miserable bastards because of it - they weren't before. 

Of course it must be a great feeling to have your own flesh and blood running about the place, taking family holidays and teaching them how to ride a bike or swim, but for me I think the bad outweighs the good in this case and can't be dealing with all the negatives that comes with being a parent. I honestly feel quite bad saying that, but as you pointed out 'maybe I'm not daddy material' 

Hence my enquiry into peoples' lives as to 'how hard' they find it raising a kid in a country such as Thailand compared to their motherland.

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## Stinky

Bringing up kids is no picnic anywhere if you're doing it right. 
In Los you will want to send them to a private school, so any saving you make in living expense is lost on schooling stright off the bat. 
If I didn't need to work and had the money for "adequate" private schooling I'd be there and not here.

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## Smug Farang Bore

Your g/f will want children its expected in Thai society.

They don't look at the cost and you can step back as the family will take over.

If you want to bring then up the western way in BKK it will cost you.

I'm with sd, dogs are aways happy to see ya.

Cheap too.

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## FlyFree

Have to agree with the digit there. If you have to agonize over the question, the answer is no. If the financial side is the biggest concern, with a fully paid house and no debts, you're pondering the wrong question. There's so much more to being a parent.

Personally, taking all the shit hitting the fan in this century into account, I'd not consider having a child. 

First consideration must be a child's potential future. I'd suggest that finances and education will the the least of the problems facing a new generation. It could get really bad out there.

I fear for mine. It is my greatest concern, and I can't help. Money ain't gonna do the trick anymore.... It will still help, but I don't think it'll help much.

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## Stinky

You sound out just how I feel most of the time Mr FlyFree, I frett like crazy for the future of my Little Digit and the older he gets the more I frett. 
At the moment it's all about getting him into the right school, before long it'll be exam grades and drugs, the list of things to worry about seems endless and growing by the day.

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## The Fresh Prince

Wow, Bruno, Flyfree and Digit have all hit nails on heads of points how I constantly feel.

The wife and I agreed that we'd try to start a family early next year but I'm constantly fretting about finances for it and I think now even she might be willing to wait a bit longer until we both feel secure. (She's not mentioned it for a couple of months)

Apart from the money my biggest concern is the society that is in the future. Times have changed and there seems to be a whole headache of worries to consider.

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## smeden

just now whatch danish news a marokan man mowed to denmark whith his wife when they went apart she take the kids to spain and dumb them at a sister living in spain the boys bspeak danish and go to shool in denmark but the rules here in denmark is the mother can not just dump the kids becurse bher new man dont like the kids are to much danish and to litle muslim it is like that if the kids go to stay here in denmark my pension will be smaler despite i payed tax since i was 14 years old i can see it is not good for the boys to be sent back to the mother in maroco but i have to think of my situasion if the boys stay here there will be less money for my pension so let the mother take care of her 2 boys insted of just dump them     :mid:  ::chitown:: in denmark  :ourrules:

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## Smug Farang Bore

^^Not that you'd have to stay off the pop..? :Smile:

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## bobo746

https://teakdoor.com/the-teakdoor-lou...-you-make.html

if you wait until you got enough cash you will never do it.

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## DrAndy

> First consideration must be a child's potential future. I'd suggest that finances and education will the the least of the problems facing a new generation. It could get really bad out there.


I think my parents thought that, and theirs....and it did

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## Nostradamus

Don't do it, you'll just feel additional guilt when you go back to using hookers when you get bored with your missus.

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## Cujo

Oh look, smeg's got a new user name.

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## DrAndy

really Dug?

which one is it?

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## wefearourdespot

> Maybe I should just buy a dog!


Nope, just dump the gf and use whores for your sexual needs , they will not bother you to have kids and if they demand too much money just leave them out of the door.

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## Norton

> Can I afford to be a father?


A question anyone choosing to have a child needs to investigate as a major factor in the decision.

Education costs vary greatly depending on where you send the child and location. High end international schools very expensive. Public schools inexpensive.

I have experience with good private schools in Isaan. I don't keep track of every baht but as a benchmark, costs vary from 100,000 - 150, 000 per year depending on age of your child. Whether you can afford a child obviously depends on your income vs your choices regarding education as well as other costs. Do the math is all I can advise.




> my g/f is 26, has expressed her desire to have children on more than one occasion


Not uncommon in any relationship to have a partner wanting to have children but you must be in agreement as well. Financial where with all is but one factor in the decision. Your "life style" will dramatically change.  If you're committed to profoundly adjusting your life style and have the financial resources to be a parent then go for it.

Reading your OP post, I think you are far from convinced and may be exploring cost as a rationale for telling your GF, "no children".

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## klong toey

Could be more than eduction cost every year, salary for maid once maid employed, girlfriend/wife jealous thinks your short timing with maid.Wife/girlfriend walks out your left looking after baby.

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## Looper

> somewhere in the region of a $250,000 outlay up to the age of 18.





> Your g/f will want children its expected in Thai society.


Thais have kids as a financial insurance in threir old age. Since this is a financial investment you may be able to tax deduct some of the 250  :Smile: 

(you would have to pay CGT on the sin sot though!)

If I lived in Thailand I think it would be ideal for bringing up a kid. I would pay a maid to wipe its arse and I would teach it myself. 1 on 1 tuition is about 4 times as productive as classroom learning so I would only have to put in 2 hours a day. It would be quality time and you could watch your experiment become a prodigy. Way better results than getting a Thai or a sex tourist to teach it.

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## Davis Knowlton

Bruno: I think you're asking the wrong question. You should be asking, "Do I want kids?" If you want to have kids, for whatever reason, then by all means do so. But your wife's culture should not, in my opinion, be a driving force in the decision. Wives have a shorter lifespan than kids. Wives tend to come and go; kids are your responsibility forever.

I have eleven year old twins, and no regrets. I live in the Philippines, and have for many years. The costs associated with the kids is fine for now. It will probably bankrupt me when they head off to the US for college, but such is life. I am in good shape financially, but will have to do some saving to handle college costs. But, you can't take it with you in any case.

In retrospect, I am delighted that my first wife and I never had kids. I am just as delighted that the twins dropped in ten years into what is a great twenty-year relationship.

That said, you won't be a good father unless you really want kids. They are a lot of time and trouble. There are tons of bad parents out there; you don't want to be one. From reading your posts, I don't think that at this point in your life you sound like you want children. So, wait and see if that changes down the road.

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## slimboyfat

Yes you can afford it. 

What are you still studying at 30 yrs old for? You big girl

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## Attilla the Hen

Kids? Fuck that!
They're not even human, are they?

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## Stinky

> Originally Posted by *Davis Knowlton*
> Bruno: I think you're asking the wrong question. You should be asking, "Do I want kids?"


What he should be asking himself is what colour goldfish he should buy  :Yup:

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## VocalNeal

If all potential parents though along your lines this thread would be blank. 

It usually boils down to how you feel about the woman. If she is your best friend and you can happily spend the rest of your life with her.........
If the child is smart they will make it in whatever environment country they are born in. If your gf understands she will have to continue working?

If not convinced. Play the field, wait until you are 50 find another 26 year-old and reconsider, as you will have mellowed. But you have to decide soon as she is not getting any younger!

I was an accident that is why I can post here.




> I like children. I just can't eat a whole one.

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## Bruno

> If I lived in Thailand I think it would be ideal for bringing up a kid. I would pay a maid to wipe its arse and I would teach it myself. 1 on 1 tuition is about 4 times as productive as classroom learning so I would only have to put in 2 hours a day. It would be quality time and you could watch your experiment become a prodigy. Way better results than getting a Thai or a sex tourist to teach it.


There is some logic in this quote Looper. I am sure many fathers' question the aptitude of many a teachers ability to instruct their children based on their poor knowledge or grasp of the subject they're teaching. The lower public schools are without doubt 'not an option'; getting quality results one has to pay, the end!





> That said, you won't be a good father unless you really want kids. They are a lot of time and trouble. There are tons of bad parents out there; you don't want to be one. From reading your posts, I don't think that at this point in your life you sound like you want children. So, wait and see if that changes down the road.


Sound advice and more than likely the course of action I will take...





> Yes you can afford it. 
> 
> What are you still studying at 30 yrs old for? You big girl


Maybe, but then I won't be able to maintain my/our current lifestyle, so then the question reverts back - maybe I cannot afford to become a father after all. 

I am studying for a Masters in Education. Eventually - all you guys with children - will be paying me loads of money each year to teach your kids!





> I was an accident that is why I can post here.


Just another statistic I wish to avoid contributing my fair share too!

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## Stinky

> Originally Posted by slimboyfat
> 
> Yes you can afford it. 
> 
> What are you still studying at 30 yrs old for? You big girl
> 
> 
> Maybe, but then I won't be able to maintain my/our current lifestyle, so then the question reverts back - maybe I cannot afford to become a father after all. 
> 
> I am studying for a Masters in Education. Eventually - all you guys with children - will be paying me loads of money each year to teach your kids!


Well if that's the case lets hope that they teach you a little about basic decision making, heaven forbid you will need to pop out of the classroom to take advice about question a posed by a tricky nine year old  :Wink:

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## Bettyboo



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## Loy Toy

If you are even asking yourself the question then don't and later on you will know automatically when it is the right time.

A dog won't solve your problem as they also can be expensive to bring up and do restrict your freedom to get around particularly when it comes to overseas travel.

Finish your studies, tell your girlfriend if she is not willing to wait she should go and find someone else who can impregnate her and good luck.

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## Bruno

> Well if that's the case lets hope that they teach you a little about basic decision making, heaven forbid you will need to pop out of the classroom to take advice about question a posed by a tricky nine year old


LOL, I admire your quick witted repartee there Sdgit. But let's be honest, deciding to bring a child into the world is not a decision to be taken lightly, is it - especially away from one's native country which to me adds to the confusion of it all?

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## Stinky

> Originally Posted by Sdigit
> 
> Well if that's the case lets hope that they teach you a little about basic decision making, heaven forbid you will need to pop out of the classroom to take advice about question a posed by a tricky nine year old
> 
> 
> LOL, I admire your quick witted repartee there Sdgit. But let's be honest, deciding to bring a child into the world is not a decision to be taken lightly, is it - especially away from one's native country which to me adds to the confusion of it all?


Ok Seriously,

Your biggest trouble isn't having the child, it's comittimg to it  :mid:  not joking. 

You'll have another five-ish years after the birth to get your act together before the real expense of schooling ect kicks in which is loads of time. 

I may well be wrong but I kind of get the impression that you are being pushed in a direction that you don't want to go anyway, my only advice would be don't do it for anybody, wife, Gf, mother in law, do it for you and only if you really want it, it's not an easy task and the responsibility lasts a life time  :Smile:

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## slimboyfat

> I am studying for a Masters in Education. Eventually - all you guys with children - will be paying me loads of money each year to teach your kids!


I doubt it, well not for me anyway - unless you go to Singapore to teach and then I will be paying you out of my taxes.

btw I was a dad at 23. Not to be recommended for all but it has worked out for me. Never even thought about the cost aspect but ofcourse I have had to stay in employment for our family's sake

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## slimboyfat

> Originally Posted by Sdigit
> 
> Well if that's the case lets hope that they teach you a little about basic decision making, heaven forbid you will need to pop out of the classroom to take advice about question a posed by a tricky nine year old
> 
> 
> LOL, I admire your quick witted repartee there Sdgit. But let's be honest, deciding to bring a child into the world is not a decision to be taken lightly, is it - especially away from one's native country which to me adds to the confusion of it all?


why don't you just grow a pair and stop pussy footing around?

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## Blake7

If you cant afford kids of your own why not lease some instead? For instance you coild lease another couples kids on friday and saturday nights for a mere fraction of the cost of having them yourself?

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## Stinky

^I do hope wfod isnt reading that  :Smile:

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## rickschoppers

Bruno,

I would not worry so much about the expense, but would worry more about if you are ready. I have raised three kids in the west and now have a little one in Isaan. If you want my opinion, the one in Thailand will have a better upbringing than my  3 kids in the US did. I worked and did not see enough of them growing up which left most of the caretaking to the wife. In Thailand, the entire family helps with the little one and he receives all the attention he needs form them and firends coming around. It is great to see everyone pass the baby around and give him time that my grown kids never saw. In Thailand raising a child is a group effort where in the west it is left to the parents. If they divorce, like I did, they are pulled between two parents which is a lousy way to grow up. This also happens a lot in Thailand, but the entire family will help raise the child as they will help with money, if they are working. It is an entirely different mindset. So don't worry so much about who will take care and the commitment since the family will answer that question. As far as cost, the west is by more much more expensive. You are still young and have many years of productivity left and you can work in the west and visit the family as often as you can which is the way the Thai society works. The actual cost will depend on what you are willing to pay as metioned before in this thread. We all want good educations for our kids, but if you take a little time to make sure they learn English and have a sound foundation, the doors will open. If you are thinking about having a child in Thailand and am not sure, take your time until you figure things out. Believe me, it is not that difficult and I am still working in the west while my Thai family takes care of the little one and it is neither expensive or without knowing he will be taken good care of. Take your time and understand all women want kids, but make sure it is your idea not theirs.

Good Luck........

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## Bruno

> Take your time and understand all women want kids, but make sure it is your idea not theirs.
> 
> Good Luck........


Great advice and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. 

Your right, I am not ready! It would be a wise decision to wait until later on in life and with my personal circumstances tied up at the moment for at least another 18 months, I would simply like to enjoy some quality time with her first before starting a family such as travelling and my eventual plan to work in some more additional S.E. Asian countries;all this would be impossible, or incredibly difficult to master with a little one in tow. 

Only recently has this been a talked about subject. Her much younger friend of 21 recently fell pregnant with her German b/f and has since taken it upon herself to remind my tgf that she must now follow suit as she is a number of years older than her. Loss of face here possibly?

I couldn't think of a worse scenario to be honest, the girl is only 21 and will spend her youth attending to the needs of a kid and wonder where her twenties went, even with the help of her family, she will be limited in her future decisions and whilst she might not regret it, it would be a life that she cannot claim back. Still it is her choice and one that presumably suits her and her partners.

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## rickschoppers

Stick to your guns and wait until you both are ready. It is always nice to spend quality time before jumping into having kids. This is not that profound, but well understood by us who have had kids. I was with my wife almost 5 years before we both decided to have our son. She was 27 when I met her and was already being "pressured" to have a little one. She was 32 by the time our son was born and maybe it to was a result of some peer pressure. To be honest, I think she was getting bored waiting for me to come over every 5 months and spend time with her. She's a lot happier now. 
Sounds like you have the right idea and don't let the family or friend comments change your mind until you are ready. You will know when it is time and not have to agonize over whether to make a family or not. Enjoy the country with your female friend and let her see what is out there as well. I only wish I had discovered Thailand at your age. Have a good time and let your lady know you are in no hurry and she shouldn't be as well.

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