#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thai Visas and Visa Runs >  >  Multiple Non immigrant type 'o'( requirements)

## poorfalang

Is it still possible to get that from savanakhet?

what's required?

married with kids and can provide all documents,  

currently Marriage visa, 

Thanks in advance, will return later to distribute the greens.

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## toddaniels

Savannakhet is easily the most "user friendly" Thai consulate issuing year long multi entry Non-O visas to foreigners based on marriage to a Thai national. They don't care about you having half thai kids; mostly because the fact you're listed on their birth certificate doesn't give you ANY parental rights or the ability to use them as a means to stay here. To get parental rights assigned to you is done only by court order. Anyway, 

You will need;The application that the Savannakhet Thai Consulate uses for for the visa and a photoThe originals and copies of Kor Ror 2 & 3 (those are the documents you got from the Amphur when you registered the marriage), signed by you and your wifeA copy of your thai wife's I/D card (front & back) signed by your wifeA copy of your wife's house book called the Tabien Baan (ทะเบียนบ้าน) showing her name on it signed by your wife.A letter from your wife asking the consulate to issue you this visa (not always required but can't hurt).That's it, they don't require ANY financial proof at all. I think it's 5000K baht for the visa there. They also have "same day service" now. You turn in the app in the morning and pick up your passport with the visa in it in the afternoon.

This one requires you to border run every 90 days to get another 90 day permission to stay stamp but if you play the dates right it's good for almost 15 months in country.

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## Albert Shagnastier

I just got a single entry non-o based on having children (not married) here from Vientiane.

They would only give me a single entry (90 days).

I know I can extend for 60 days when that's up and then do it all again, but the guy at the embassy gave me a piece of paper which had a flow chart showing how to convert this into a 1 year non o.

It says.

Now I should go to Chaengwattana and

1: Fill in form TM.7
2: Provide copy of passport
3: Proof of family relationship e.g birth certificate

Then...

"Extension Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time"

Then..

1: Apply for Re-Entry (before leaving the Kingdom) Single or Multiple Re-Entry - (Form TM.8)
2: Then notify my address every 90 days. (Form TM.47)

Not extremely clear but I think I get the main idea. 

Does this make sense to you Tod?

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## rebbu

Got a multi-entry non o about 2 and half months ago in Savanakhet. Showed everything that Todd said except the letter from the wife.

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## Albert Shagnastier

Place to download forms

Immigration Bureau

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## jamescollister

> I just got a single entry non-o based on having children (not married) here from Vientiane.
> 
> They would only give me a single entry (90 days).
> 
> I know I can extend for 60 days when that's up and then do it all again, but the guy at the embassy gave me a piece of paper which had a flow chart showing how to convert this into a 1 year non o.
> 
> It says.
> 
> Now I should go to Chaengwattana and
> ...


That's a yes and no one, think they are talking about child support extension.
400,000 in the bank for one day, no seeding period.
Phi Bun used to give them out, change of management, different policy. If married only spouse extension, if separated, divorced, you need a letter from the courts proving you support the child.

Different offices different interpretations, worth a try though. Jim

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## Albert Shagnastier

^We'll see what happens.

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## toddaniels

Albert Shagnastier; I coulda told you they wouldn't give a year long multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type-O at Savannakhet for having half thai kids. I don't recall ever reading that they would. Most people got what you did, a single entry 90 day Non-O.

This is the translation from Tilleke & Gibbins for the Royal Thai Police Order 777/2551 which is followed now.
Here's the section which pertains to you applying for a yearly extension of stay based on being the father of half-thai kidz.




> 2.18 In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse's children): Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.
> (1) The alien must have been granted a Non Immigrant Visa (NON-IM)
> (2) The alien must have proof of relationship
> (3) In case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto; or
> (4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse's children, said children, adopted children or spouse's children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family and must not be over 20 years of age; or
> (5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year
> For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case by case basis.


Here's the thai version of the same thing. When there's ambiguity in the english, Immigrations ALWAYS uses the thai version, so have a thai read it for you. (Although I can read thai just fine and it's really pretty darned close to the Tilleke & Gibbins version.



> ๒.๑๘ กรณีเป็นครอบครัวของผู้มีสัญชาติไทย 
> (เฉพาะบิดามารดา คู่สมรส บุตรบุตรบุญธรรม หรือบุตรของคู่สมรส)
> ให้อนุญาตครั้งละไม่เกิน ๑ ปี
> (๑) คนต่างด้าวต้องได้รับการตรวจลงตรา ประเภทคนอยู่ชั่วคราว
> (๒) มีหลักฐานแสดงความสัมพันธ์
> (๓) กรณีคู่สมรสต้องมีความสัมพันธ์กันทั้งทางนิตินัยและพ  ฤตินัย หรือ
> (๔) กรณีบุตร บุตรบุญธรรม หรือบุตรของ
> คู่สมรสขออยู่ในความ อุปการะบุตร บุตรบุญธรรม หรือบุตรของคู่สมรสนั้นต้องยัง
> ไม่ได้สมรส และอยู่อาศัยเป็นส่วนแห่งครัวเรือนนั้น และต้องมีอายุไม่เกิน ๒๐ ปี
> ...


Reading either of them it would appear that "jamescollister" is correct; there is NO mention of seasoning of the 400K baht. Also, there is no requirement showing you went thru the court system and got parental rights granted. 

It seems is all you need is the birth certificate, listing you as the father. If I was a betting man I'd probably say you would need their mother's I/D card, the Tabien Baan listing the mother and kids address AND that it matches your address but that's just a guess. I've never shepherded an acquaintance thru Immigrations getting a yearly extension of stay bases solely on having kids but not being married to thai.  

I am heading out to Chaengwattana at the beginning of the week and I'll ask if what I outlined is correct and report back what I find out. 

It'd be good info for me to know anyway. . .

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## Albert Shagnastier

Thanks for the info Tod - much appreciated.

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## Happy As Larry

> I am heading out to Chaengwattana at the beginning of the week and I'll ask if what I outlined is correct and report back what I find out.


Tod, I too would be very interested to read your report of your visit to  Chaengwattana

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## coolhandluke

No money requirements there nor the embassy letter. Drop off in the morning and collect the following afternoon. Piece of cake.

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## toddaniels

"coolhandluke" your cryptic bit 'o wisdom is for exactly what type of visa, gotten where? 

A little more information would go a lot further than your assurance it's a "piece of cake".

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## coolhandluke

> "coolhandluke" your cryptic bit 'o wisdom is for exactly what type of visa, gotten where? 
> 
> A little more information would go a lot further than your assurance it's a "piece of cake".


Sorry. Type 'O' based up being married.

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## toddaniels

As I have said for quite a while. Foreigners married to thai nationals who want a solution to stay in thailand but don't meet the financial requirements for a yearly extension of stay inside the country should go to to the Thai consulate in Savannakhet Lao. It's across the river from Mukdahan Thailand. . 

They now offer same day service; drop it off in the morning and pick it up in the afternoon. A year long multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type-O visa is 5000 baht I think. 

That lets you stay in thailand for 90 days at a time, border hop and activate another 90 day permission to stay, You can stay almost 15 months in thailand if you time the dates you run-4-the-border.

The criteria is minimal, and right now it's to GO-2 place. 

I'd wager that they are not gonna be a soft touch like this for a lot longer.  They're getting totally hammered due to the visa exempt changes here, so if you're needing a visa like that, get after it!

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## toddaniels

Sorry guys, I can't remember where I said I was going to scope out how to get a yearly extension of stay IF you have a half thai child but aren't married to the mother..


Here's the pic of the requirements;


This is what I found out;
If you are wanting to secure a yearly extension of stay based on being the father of thai kids but not married, you can either have the 400K banked in an account in your name only here in Thailand OR proof of 40K baht a month income OR minimum 400K baht balance by the "embassy letter".  

You'll also need the original birth certificate and a copy of it, the copy of the page which has the child listed in the Thabien Baan (house book), the page which lists the mother, a picture of you, your child's mother and the child standing in front of your address numbers, a map to your house AND a certified copy from the Amphur showing an extract from their ledger where they register births. It's just a copy of the notation on a ledger showing the name, date, time when the birth was registered at the Amphur. It also has the stamp from the Amphur showing it's a real copy. You also have to take your child and your child's mother with you.

Unfortunately the jury is out about them accepting the embassy letter w/out any bank statements to back it up. Some were of the mind that if you already had a single entry Non-O and were after just a yearly extension of stay, you didn't need it. 

If that's the case I'd say hoof-it to Savannakhet and get a single entry 90 day Non-O first based on having a half thai child, then get the yearly extension of stay when that winds down, because that way you sure don't need to prove the amount you list on the embassy letter. 

Now if you're gonna apply for a Non-O visa HERE at Bangkok Immigrations and go the embassy letter route you're gonna hafta show proof that the number you put on the letter is real (bank statements, etc). That area at Chaengwattana which issues those is area "C" and they're hard as nailz about it.  They'll take it under review for 2 weeks, then you go back get the single entry 90 day Non-O stamped into your passport along with a new "permission to stay until stamp". When that winds down to 30 days or less you go back out with a new "embassy letter" and apply for a yearly extension of stay. 

If you go this route you're also going to need double the documentation (once when you apply for the Non-O single entry) and once again when you apply for the yearly extension of stay, AND you're gonna hafta take your child and the child's mother with you both times too. (You won't have to take them when you go back after the 2 week review period and get the Non-O stamped into your passport, just when you apply for the Non-O and again when you apply for the year's extension of stay)  

Guys, honestly, that's the best I can do. I know it's sorta convoluted and really I'm sorry for that. 

 As I said, I've never done a yearly extension of stay OR applied for a single entry Non-O visa inside the country based on a foreigner having a half thai child. It took me spending a good couple hours out there today talking to 4 different people in three areas AND the customer information manager to get the information I got.

Hope it helps.
"Just-Ask-Tod" 
Tod Daniels

P/S; if this was the wrong thread, I'm really sorry about that... If anyone wants the thai or the english full size pix I took of the requirements send me a P/M..

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## jamescollister

The child extension of stay seems very local interpretation based.
My kids were born in Australia, births registered, Thai consulate Canberra, birth certs issued by them.
Thai passports issued Ubon, Phi Bun immigration advised me to get a child support extension of stay, piece of cake, 400,000  in the bank, one day, no questions about where the money came from, no need for lots of paper work.
Year later, new boss, different rules, same laws, go figure. Jim

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## Albert Shagnastier

> Sorry guys, I can't remember where I said I was going to scope out how to get a yearly extension of stay IF you have a half thai child but aren't married to the mother..
> 
> 
> Here's the pic of the requirements;
> 
> 
> This is what I found out;
> If you are wanting to secure a yearly extension of stay based on being the father of thai kids but not married, you can either have the 400K banked in an account in your name only here in Thailand OR proof of 40K baht a month income OR minimum 400K baht balance by the "embassy letter".  
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time Tod - great information.

I just got a single o from Vientienne and will be doing this in the next few months and post back how it goes.

Once again - much appreciated.

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## Happy As Larry

Tod,
I can only reiterate what Albert has posted.

Many thanks indeed

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## toddaniels

Believe me it's not a problem to post information about how foreigners can stay here who have "thaiz" err I mean ties to this country.

I didn't know how to do it, because I never did it. I thought I'd go find out and I gave it the college try sussing out what's what as well as what the different areas out at Immigrations wanted concerning documentation and how they wanted it handed to them, etc.

Now all I need is a "test case" to see if it really flies and I can add it to my files of "in Bangkok this works for this visa extension".

Honestly, I am an asshole, I'm hard core and I don't take shit off people, but really it's no problem sharing information. I think a person could take what I've posted and fly themselves thru the process, with very little hiccups.

In the 10+ years I've been in this country I've learned one thing; knowledge is power! If you know how to do something you can. 

The more we know, the better we can work within their system to stay here.

Good luck you guyz
Tod

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## CaptainNemo

I've got a quick question for yer...

In the past, I've had a 12-month multi-entry O visa (from the Hull consulate), based on purely my spouse status... I don't think they even looked at my finances at all (maybe something's changed since then?).

I'm wondering, what are the options for getting a weeny long non-imm o visa? Can you get longer than a year?
If you want to change to a visa for work (such as a b visa to work for your thai family's company or a teacher visa), is that simple and cheap or complicated and expensive?

Playing along with the "dual thai citizenship" thing, which if true, would obviously make life easier, are there things to do or avoid in terms of your sequence of visas in the build-up to such an application, worth thinking about?

I'm not trolling btw, just actually fishing for things to check up on.

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## Digby Fantona

I believe that multi-entry visas are no longer issued by the Consulates in the UK. This is regardless of the class of visa. Hull have not updated rheir site to reflect this change.

Cardiff have updated theirs -

Welcome to the Royal Thai Consulate, Cardiff

as have Liverpool

http://www.royalthaiconsul.com/

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## toddaniels

> I've got a quick question for yer...


Digby Fantona is correct, you're not gonna pull a year-long, multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type O visa from Hull. You go to London to get them now. You're not able to get them from most of the honorary consulates in the US either. Multi-entry visas (of any type) now can only be had from the thai consulates in New York, Washington DC, LA or Chicago. 

Inside the country there is NO extension of stay for any reason that is longer than a year. Outside the country if you're wanting a visa based on marriage to a thai All you're gonna get is either a year-long, multi-entry Non-immigrant O visa <-where you border-bounce every 90 days. The other option is to apply for a yearly extension of stay inside thailand at the immigration office.

Honestly now, if I was wanting a year-long, multi-entry Non-O based on marriage to a thai I wouldn't fool with ANY consulate in the west. I'd go to the thai consulate in Savannakhet. Hands down they're the easiest thai consulate to get that visa from. 

FWIW: if you have a Non-O visa OR an extension of stay based on marriage to a thai you can get a work permit and work here.   

To get on the "naturalized thai" train you'd need unbroken "yearly extensions of stays" NOT year-long, multi-entry visas where you leave every 90 days <-those don't count. 

You'd also need to legally work here, pay and file taxes etc along with a plethora of other things.. 

Good luck

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## rickschoppers

Todd, I currently have a 1 year Non-Immigrant O visa based on marriage to a Thai that I obtained from LA last August. I plan to do a border bounce a couple of weeks before expiration to give myself another 90 days. Would it be wiser to head for Savannakhet and obtain a new visa, or go to immigration here for an extension on my current visa? I would prefer the former. Hopefully Savannakhet will not change their position between now and next year, or anytime for that matter.

I would apply for an extension in Udon Thani where I find immigration a bit difficult depending on who I talk to.

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## toddaniels

rickschoppers; I have no idea if Savannakhet is gonna change their requirements as far as that year-long, multi-entry Non-O based on marriage. Right now they're the only one that'll issue it with NO finances (Penang used to but now won't without proof of the money). The Non-O based on marriage to a thai is the ONLY one they'll issue as year-long, multi-entry, all the rest of the reasons (over 50, raising kids, volunteering, etc) only get a 90 day single entry. 

It's totally up to you whether you apply for a yearly extension of stay based on marriage at your immigration office OR if you go to Savannakhet and pull another year-long multi-entry Non-O. 

That visa in Savannakhet is 5000baht, where as an extension of stay & a multi-entry permit is 5700baht. <- Plus that extension takes a pile-'o-paperwork, has a 30 day under-consideration wait, and possibly a home visit from the immigration officers to verify you're really married and living together.  True with the multi-entry Non-O you border-bounce every 90 days to get another 90 day stamp, so there's the cost of a visa to another country, travel time etc to factor in, but all in all it's a pretty trouble-free visa to hold.

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## Digby Fantona

> I would apply for an extension in Udon Thani where I find immigration a bit difficult depending on who I talk to.


I appreciate that your question was aimed specifically at Todd but he has answered it already. Assuming that you have a long term commitment to Thailand, there really is no need to seek "fresh" visas every year and the way to go is by extension.

In my own case I have two options - marriage or retirement. I can decide which to side with when I get to Thailand. I don't know what the situation is for American citizens but I know that I can get an O visa to enter the Kingdom at my local Thai Consulate simply by showing that I am in receipt of a state pension. That will get me into the country then I need to open a bank account, transfer funds and go through the process of "extension", marriage or retirement.

By doing as Todd implies in his previous reply you might well find yourself in a position when you could apply for permanent residency. This could never be achieved if you continued the current practice of obtaining "fresh" visas every year.

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## rickschoppers

Understood Digby. My question to Todd was more about his personal feeling if Savannakhet would still be as easy as they are now. I already knew the answers to all other questions since I have been doing the same thing for the past eleven years. This year there is a good chance that I will not be returning to the States to visit family and friends during the rainy season as I have done before.

I know Todd can not foretell the future, but he seems to have his ear to the ground on such things. I could also do a retirement visa and like to take the path of least resistance. You may consider doing the same thing if you have that option. Dealing with the local immigration office for an extension does not sound like the easiest path for me.

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## Digby Fantona

I will be in Thailand in a few weeks time to do some preparatory work. It is finally time for my wife to change her name to mine and we will be obtaining a new ID card and passport in her married name. She will then open bank accounts in her married name. This is to facilitate the transfer of funds into Thailand later. She is also going to the land office to have her "new" name put on the papers relating to the house she already owns.

I had considered getting an O Visa myself so that I could be included on the house registration and open a bank account for myself. The change in rules relating to multi entry visas means that this now just a waste of money and I will enter as a tourist leaving the bank account until a later visit.

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## rickschoppers

You should be able to open a bank account as soon as you arrive. Changing your wife's name on her ID card, driver's license, passport and house book, in that order, will be strait forward as long as you have all your wedding documents. The land office might be more difficult depending on the existing title. Is the title in her name now, or someone elses?

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## Digby Fantona

> You should be able to open a bank account as soon as you arrive. Changing your wife's name on her ID card, driver's license, passport and house book, in that order, will be strait forward as long as you have all your wedding documents. The land office might be more difficult depending on the existing title. Is the title in her name now, or someone elses?


The house and land are already in her maiden name. It is just a question of a name change.

The name change would have been done earlier were it not for the fact that the women she saw in Chang Wattana were trying to get money out of her by getting their friends to do a new and totally unnecessary translation. These have now been bypassed as our marriage has been "legalised" by the UK Foreign Office and the original marriage certificate and translation have been accepted and stamped by the Thai Embassy in London.

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## Phuketrichard

> I will be in Thailand in a few weeks time to do some preparatory work. It is finally time for my wife to change her name to mine and we will be obtaining a new ID card and passport in her married name. She will then open bank accounts in her married name. This is to facilitate the transfer of funds into Thailand later. She is also going to the land office to have her "new" name put on the papers relating to the house she already owns.
> 
> I had considered getting an O Visa myself so that I could be included on the house registration and open a bank account for myself. The change in rules relating to multi entry visas means that this now just a waste of money and I will enter as a tourist leaving the bank account until a later visit.


WHY" change her name?  wont help one bit transferring assets/money into thailand. Evey one i ever spoke to and NONE of my married friends to Farangs have their wife's changed their names on their id cards or passports to their husbands. Some have lived overseas with their husbands as well. 

IF ur married get a non o single entry visa wherever u are and when u arrive apply  for extension based on being married. You can than open bank account in ur name which u need
400,000 in the bank only required.

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## rickschoppers

Good that her land is already in her name? Did you give her the money for the land, or was it a gift from her family? There would be an extra step or two if you gave her the money. It will be a bit sticky since a falang is now involved and your wife may be pressured for some tea money. Pay only the fees that will appear on your final receipt.

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by Digby Fantona
> 
> 
> I will be in Thailand in a few weeks time to do some preparatory work. It is finally time for my wife to change her name to mine and we will be obtaining a new ID card and passport in her married name. She will then open bank accounts in her married name. This is to facilitate the transfer of funds into Thailand later. She is also going to the land office to have her "new" name put on the papers relating to the house she already owns.
> 
> I had considered getting an O Visa myself so that I could be included on the house registration and open a bank account for myself. The change in rules relating to multi entry visas means that this now just a waste of money and I will enter as a tourist leaving the bank account until a later visit.
> 
> 
> WHY" change her name?  wont help one bit transferring assets/money into thailand. Evey one i ever spoke to and NONE of my married friends to Farangs have their wife's changed their names on their id cards or passports to their husbands. Some have lived overseas with their husbands as well. 
> ...


I did and it has come in handy. ::chitown:: 

Wrong on the 400,000 in the bank requirement. Only need to show you have yearly income of 400,000 including any bank accounts. I make enough each month to not show money in my account. You need to research things a bit more and get outside of Phuket since they are not really the norm for the rest of Thailand.

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## CaptainNemo

> Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
> 
> 
>                    I've got a quick question for yer...
> 
> 
> Digby Fantona is correct, you're not gonna pull a year-long, multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type O visa from Hull. You go to London to get them now. You're not able to get them from most of the honorary consulates in the US either. Multi-entry visas (of any type) now can only be had from the thai consulates in New York, Washington DC, LA or Chicago. 
> 
> Inside the country there is NO extension of stay for any reason that is longer than a year. Outside the country if you're wanting a visa based on marriage to a thai All you're gonna get is either a year-long, multi-entry Non-immigrant O visa <-where you border-bounce every 90 days. The other option is to apply for a yearly extension of stay inside thailand at the immigration office.
> ...


Thanks todd.

I always thought that the only way (or maybe the best way) to get a work permit was to set up a family shell firm, and for that firm to employ me, and so any work I did in Thailand would get paid into it... but then you need to have a chanote deed to have an address for your company to be based at, I guess.

Fishing around for long-term stable plans (i.e.: a 5-year plan to get dual-Thai/Farang status), it seems to me that at the moment, one of the safest options is to take up the 1-year UK PGCE in maths or science, where they give you about £25k tax free to train and pay fees, and then with the QTS you can reliably work in Asia indefinitely doing that (or as a fallback), for a reasonable wedge to make life worth living.
Trying to get a gig working at a Thai uni seems to be a waste of effort in comparison. 

This prompts the question of what visa you might go for, because normally teachers get a Non-Imm O/ED Teacher visa don't they?

I guess what I'm fishing for is "visa strategy"... so the question becomes, does trying to satisfy the working and taxpaying aspect via proper teaching (as opposed to TEFLing) work via a Teacher visa, or does doing your own Spouse visa complicate life when trying to work as a proper teacher.

Either way, it sounds like you need to have 1 Non-Imm Single Entry O + 4 extensions of it in a row, along with everything else.

I'd like to hear more about which WP form you fill in and what you put there as a spouse... does your spouse effectively become your boss?!  :Very Happy:

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## Digby Fantona

> Good that her land is already in her name? Did you give her the money for the land, or was it a gift from her family? There would be an extra step or two if you gave her the money. It will be a bit sticky since a falang is now involved and your wife may be pressured for some tea money. Pay only the fees that will appear on your final receipt.


No, the transfer was made to her by her mother and no money of mine was involved. The change of name should be done easily and my wife thinks that there will be no fee involved. They will probably try it on to get a few baht but I will be nowhere in sight. It is just a change of name.

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## CaptainNemo

> Todd, I currently have a 1 year Non-Immigrant O visa based on marriage to a Thai that I obtained from LA last August. I plan to do a border bounce a couple of weeks before expiration to give myself another 90 days. Would it be wiser to head for Savannakhet and obtain a new visa, or go to immigration here for an extension on my current visa? I would prefer the former. Hopefully Savannakhet will not change their position between now and next year, or anytime for that matter.
> 
> I would apply for an extension in Udon Thani where I find immigration a bit difficult depending on who I talk to.


Is there a league table of easier and more difficult immigration offices?!  :Very Happy:

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## Digby Fantona

> WHY" change her name? wont help one bit transferring assets/money into thailand. Evey one i ever spoke to and NONE of my married friends to Farangs have their wife's changed their names on their id cards or passports to their husbands. Some have lived overseas with their husbands as well.


The change of name will be done for two reasons. We intend building a second house on the land already owned by my wife and money will be transferred to her account from the UK. This avoids any questions relating to whose funds are used to build the house. Secondly, our daughter has my name and it will be easier for her to inherit if we all share the same family name. Yes, I am anticipating that my wife will die one day. If she predeceases me, the house will be owned by my daughter.

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> Good that her land is already in her name? Did you give her the money for the land, or was it a gift from her family? There would be an extra step or two if you gave her the money. It will be a bit sticky since a falang is now involved and your wife may be pressured for some tea money. Pay only the fees that will appear on your final receipt.
> 
> 
> No, the transfer was made to her by her mother and no money of mine was involved. The change of name should be done easily and my wife thinks that there will be no fee involved. They will probably try it on to get a few baht but I will be nowhere in sight. It is just a change of name.


Good, she may or may not have to pay a small transfer fee. Best to stay out of sight, but go with her in case they want to see her spouse. Take your passport for ID, if needed.

----------


## toddaniels

Digby Fantona you're a little off base as far as the requirements to open a bank account here as a foreigner.

There are NO laws or rules concerning banking that prohibits a foreigner from opening a bank account while on a 30 day visa exempt or tourist visa.

The rules whether a particular bank will let you or not are decided at completely at the branch level by that particular branch's manager. If the branch of one bank won't do it, walk down the street to the very next branch of the same bank. You only hafta try 2 or 3 and you'll find one that'll open an account for you.

FWIW: I just sent a kiwi to the Bangkok Bank branch on Sukhumvit next to Chuwit Park and he opened a savings account just fine on a 30 day visa exempt stamp and proof of residence from his consulate <-that's a requirement at most banks now. Some branches will take hotel receipts, rental agreements etc, most want a letter from your consulate, or a letter from the immigration office stating you reside here. 

Digby; as far as what course of action you should take, I'd suggest getting a 90 day single entry Non-Immigrant Type O <-(other) visa from a thai consulate BEFORE washin' up here. You can extend that for a year based on being over 50 (retirement) OR based on marriage for 1900baht at the immigration office where you live. 

It is true, going for an extension based on being over 50 (retirement) is far less document intensive (and they're granted on the spot versus the 30 day under consideration for one based on marriage). 

The financials are twice as high for one based on being over 50, but you have 3 ways you can meet the financials though; 800k banked in an account in your name only for 60 days prior to your first yearly extension application (3 month for all subsequent extensions)proof of 65k baht a month income from your country by using a verification of funds from abroad notary (that you get from your consulate here)a combination of banked money (seasoned the requisite time) and income from abroad where the total equals 800K baht.unfortunately IF you're going to try to find gainful employment here you should know fewer and fewer labor offices will grant a work permit while you're on an extension of stay based on being over 50 (retirement). There is nothing in the labor laws about the issuing of work permits that actually prohibits this and I know a LOT of foreigners on 'retirement extensions' who do hold valid work permits too, BUT it's getting harder and some places won't do new ones, just the grandfathered in people already on them.

On an extension of stay based on marriage labor offices will issue one without a problem.

----------


## Neverna

> This prompts the question of what visa you might go for, because normally teachers get a Non-Imm O/ED Teacher visa don't they?
> 
> I guess what I'm fishing for is "visa strategy"... so the question becomes, does trying to satisfy the working and taxpaying aspect via proper teaching (as opposed to TEFLing) work via a Teacher visa, or does doing your own Spouse visa complicate life when trying to work as a proper teacher.


There is no "teacher visa" as such. Apart from what Tod said earlier, your other option is a non-immigrant B visa.

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## toddaniels

Capt Nemo; the ONLY teachers that get ED visas are the ones working illegally because you can't hold a work permit on that type of visa/extension..

Most I know have Non-B <-business visa/extensions, or if they're married Non-O visa/extensions. The good thing about working while on an extension of stay based on marriage to a thai is, IF you lose your job and your employer cancels your work permit, your extension isn't automatically canceled like it would be if you were on a Non-B extension, because the extension you're on "based on marriage to a thai" isn't thai'd err tied to your employment. 

As far as would a shell company work for you, I got no idea, but I do know there are minimum salary requirements needed to apply for permanent residence AND to apply for thai citizenship. You'd hafta hit those requirements (or at least take out with-holding tax and file taxes like you were making the minimum)..

----------


## Digby Fantona

> Digby Fantona you're a little off base as far as the requirements to open a bank account here as a foreigner.


No, I am fully aware of the funny little things I may experience by dealing with different individuals in Thailand. My ideal scenario would be to sort everything out in one go, bank account, driving licence, address, everything, but given the fact that multi entry visas are no longer available at Consulates I would be throwing money away on my next visit if I entered other than as a tourist.

I want my wife to sort out her bank account but there is no obvious advantage for me by getting a bank account on my visit in May,

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## rickschoppers

I have been here eleven years and have yet to prove income or wealth. I use my personal Thai bank account rarely only as a convenience.

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## CaptainNemo

> Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
> 
> 
> This prompts the question of what visa you might go for, because normally teachers get a Non-Imm O/ED Teacher visa don't they?
> 
> I guess what I'm fishing for is "visa strategy"... so the question becomes, does trying to satisfy the working and taxpaying aspect via proper teaching (as opposed to TEFLing) work via a Teacher visa, or does doing your own Spouse visa complicate life when trying to work as a proper teacher.
> 
> 
> There is no "teacher visa" as such. Apart from what Tod said earlier, your other option is a non-immigrant B visa.


I've had a B visa before.

I was thinking of this:

*Non-Immigrant Visa*


*Category "F"* To perform official duties. *Category "B"* To  conduct business, to work, to study teaching course, to work as an  English teacher, to take scuba diving or boxing lessons, to work as a  sport coach, to do an internship, to work as a film-producer, journalist  or reporter for a short period. *Category "IM"* To invest with the concurrence of the Thai Ministries and Government Departments concerned. *Category "IB"* To  invest or perform other activities relating to investment, subject to  the provision of the established laws on investment promotion. *Category "ED"* To  study, to come on a work study tour or observation tour, to participate  in projects or seminars, to attend a conference or training course, to  study as a foreign Buddhist monk. *Category "M"* To work as a film-producer, journalist or reporter. *Category "R* To  perform missionary work or other religious activities with the  concurrence of the Thai Ministries or Government Departments concerned. *Category "RS"* To conduct scientific research or training or teaching in a research institute. *Category "EX"* To undertake skilled work or to work as an expert or specialist. *Category "O"  
* To visit Thai spouse, children, parents, voluntary job, retirement (with State Pension) *Category
 "O-A"*
To applicants aged 50 and over who wish to stay in Thailand for an extended period without the intention of working. 

Royal Thai Embassy, London | » Types of Visas » Types of Visas

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## Digby Fantona

> I have been here eleven years and have yet to prove income or wealth. I use my personal Thai bank account rarely only as a convenience.


Yes, but you buy a "fresh" visa every year and do visa runs in between and I don't want to do that. I am fit and healthy now but the time may come when a trip out of the country will not be so appealing. Picture, if you will, little old me sitting in my rocking chair, chewing my betel nut and getting somebody else to do my 90 day reporting online.  :Smile:

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## CaptainNemo

> Capt Nemo; the ONLY teachers that get ED visas are the ones working illegally because you can't hold a work permit on that type of visa/extension..
> 
> Most I know have Non-B <-business visa/extensions, or if they're married Non-O visa/extensions. The good thing about working while on an extension of stay based on marriage to a thai is, IF you lose your job and your employer cancels your work permit, your extension isn't automatically canceled like it would be if you were on a Non-B extension, because the extension you're on "based on marriage to a thai" isn't thai'd err tied to your employment. 
> 
> As far as would a shell company work for you, I got no idea, but I do know there are minimum salary requirements needed to apply for permanent residence AND to apply for thai citizenship. You'd hafta hit those requirements (or at least take out with-holding tax and file taxes like you were making the minimum)..


OK. So it sounds like a sensible plan might be to get a single-entry o visa and then look into getting a wp on the back of that. Don't really need to bother with B visas again.

You're saying that an O spouse visa is not multi-entry? has to be single entry? then you can look at permanent residence (assuming you sort out the income side)... does that mean you can't every go on any foreign trips out of the country if you want to keep on the naturalisation track?

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## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
> ...


That's what I said. Do you think they are different?

Non-immigrant B visa = non-immigrant type B visa = non-immigrant category B visa

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## CaptainNemo

I know... I was just explaining why I got confused... I thought they were all sub-categories of an O visa... because I didn't read it properly, partly because I'm dyslexic, and partly because I didn't read it properly.
I had looked at more than one site and seen some info that seems to have been incorrect, but I can't remember the URL, not that it matters, as I don't see any need for a B visa for me.

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## thaimeme

> I have been here eleven years and have yet to prove income or wealth. I use my personal Thai bank account rarely only as a convenience.


Yep...
And many still carry heavy angst with this false requirement.

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> I have been here eleven years and have yet to prove income or wealth. I use my personal Thai bank account rarely only as a convenience.
> 
> 
> Yes, but you buy a "fresh" visa every year and do visa runs in between and I don't want to do that. I am fit and healthy now but the time may come when a trip out of the country will not be so appealing. Picture, if you will, little old me sitting in my rocking chair, chewing my betel nut and getting somebody else to do my 90 day reporting online.


I have a different situation than yours. I only need to drive about 50 kms to Nong Khai with my wife and cross the border, then loop back around into Thailand while my wife drinks a cup of coffee. The loop takes me about 45 minutes plus driving time. Easy for me and maybe not for you. Take in all the information given here and then make up your own mind on how to tackle the visa thing. One shoe does not fit all, but it doesn't hurt to know some of the shortcuts.

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## Digby Fantona

Yes, it is more likely that my visa runs, if any are to be done, will be at Nong Khai. It does seem to be more convenient to be able to report online though. I am in good health now but this could change and what is simple, even enjoyable, now may prove to be difficult if my health fails.

I like Nong Khai a lot. Property prices are silly there now and much cheaper to build a new one on land already owned. Nice fish and chips in Mai's Bar next to the City Hotel.

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## rickschoppers

Yes I agree. We all seem to think about the now, more than the future when it comes to obtaining visas.  A bit of Thai mentality since I should at least have a plan for when I am physically unable to file for and maintain a long term visa. Hopefully, that day never comes and I just pop my clogs while in the middle of some great sex.

As for building in Thailand, my recommendation is to build somewhere you like rather than building somewhere that is not your choice. If you think you will enjoy where your wife's land is and can stay active, then go for it. Otherwise, rent a place for at least one year where you think you can be happy and repeat the process until you find the magic location. Take your time.

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## Digby Fantona

We will be looking at a house built for an uncle by a local builder when we visit. If we like it we will use him to build almost as soon as we move peranently. If I don't like the look of his work , we will definitely rent until I find a suitable builder but it is getting increasingly less likely that I will buy a property ready built in Thailand. The prices are much too high and that is why the property market has stagnated. Everybody in Thailand is looking for a mug !

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## CaptainNemo

> Yes I agree. We all seem to think about the now, more than the future when it comes to obtaining visas.  A bit of Thai mentality since I should at least have a plan for when I am physically unable to file for and maintain a long term visa. Hopefully, that day never comes and I just pop my clogs while in the middle of some great sex.
> 
> As for building in Thailand, my recommendation is to build somewhere you like rather than building somewhere that is not your choice. If you think you will enjoy where your wife's land is and can stay active, then go for it. Otherwise, rent a place for at least one year where you think you can be happy and repeat the process until you find the magic location. Take your time.


Absolutely... I've spent ages collecting stuff on my CV, but really, half the point is to sort out a stable latter half of life somewhere warm and laidback.
I'm trying to work out a sensible visa and career change strategy to make that happen, rather than just rock up and fuck up.

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## Phuketrichard

> Originally Posted by Phuketrichard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Digby Fantona
> ...


I know u can show an income of  400,000 . Most its easier to put 400,000 in the bank     BUt thanks anyway for nothing   :tieme:

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## toddaniels

> Yes, it is more likely that my visa runs, if any are to be done, will be at Nong Khai. It does seem to be more convenient to be able to report online though. I am in good health now but this could change and what is simple, even enjoyable, now may prove to be difficult if my health fails.
> 
> I like Nong Khai a lot. Property prices are silly there now and much cheaper to build a new one on land already owned. Nice fish and chips in Mai's Bar next to the City Hotel.


Don't confuse a "border-bounce" where you exit thailand, stamp in&out of another country and stamp back into thailand <- done to activate another entry on a multi-entry visa with 90 day reporting <-(which BTW since Dec 17th can no longer be done online)

Rick holds a year-long, multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type O <-other visa based on marriage to a thai. That visa is good for a year from the date it's issued, it allows unlimited entries/exits to thailand with each entry getting a 90 day admitted until stamp. 

On that visa you can't stay in-country longer than 90 days so you NEVER do a 90 day report. When his admitted until stamp is winding down he border-bounces to get another 90 day stamp. If he plays the dates right and does one last border bounce before the visa itself expires he can pull almost 15 months in country out of that visa.

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## toddaniels

Rick you are confusing the financial requirements you met at the thai consulate in the US when applying for that year-long, multi-entry non-o visa with the requirements needed INSIDE the country when applying for a yearly extension of stay.

Every thai consulate in the world is run under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they set the policies. Every border crossing and immigration office inside the country is run under the Immigration Division of the Royal Thai Police, they set the policies inside the country concerning visas and extensions..  

IF you were to apply for a yearly extension of stay at your immigration office you'd either 
bank 400K baht in a thai bank account in your name only for 2 months prior to your application 
OR 
you'd go to your consulate and fill out the verification of funds from abroad letter stating you get a minimum of 40K baht per month income. 
Those are the only two ways to meet the financial requirements for a yearly extension of stay based on marriage.

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## Digby Fantona

> Rick holds a year-long, multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type O <-other visa based on marriage to a thai. That visa is good for a year from the date it's issued, it allows unlimited entries/exits to thailand with each entry getting a 90 day admitted until stamp.


These are no longer available at Consulates in the UK.

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## Chico

You have to send off to London now and takes upto two weeks.

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## toddaniels

> Originally Posted by toddaniels
> 
> Rick holds a year-long, multi-entry Non-Immigrant Type O <-other visa based on marriage to a thai. That visa is good for a year from the date it's issued, it allows unlimited entries/exits to thailand with each entry getting a 90 day admitted until stamp.
> 
> 
> These are no longer available at Consulates in the UK.


Correct, you're not gonna pull one outta Hull or Cardiff, but BUT they are still available in London.

Just like most of the honorary consulates in the US stopped issuing them, but they still DO sell them in Chicago, LA, New York & Washington DC

Plus you can pick one up at the thai consulate in Savannakhet for 5000baht and minimal paperwork too

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## rickschoppers

> Rick you are confusing the financial requirements you met at the thai consulate in the US when applying for that year-long, multi-entry non-o visa with the requirements needed INSIDE the country when applying for a yearly extension of stay.
> 
> Every thai consulate in the world is run under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, they set the policies. Every border crossing and immigration office inside the country is run under the Immigration Division of the Royal Thai Police, they set the policies inside the country concerning visas and extensions..  
> 
> IF you were to apply for a yearly extension of stay at your immigration office you'd either 
> bank 400K baht in a thai bank account in your name only for 2 months prior to your application 
> OR 
> you'd go to your consulate and fill out the verification of funds from abroad letter stating you get a minimum of 40K baht per month income. 
> Those are the only two ways to meet the financial requirements for a yearly extension of stay based on marriage.


Understood, but I never had to show any proof of income while applying in LA which is another reason I have gotten a new visa the last 11 years. It is a simple two day process which I may or may not do this year. If I do opt for the extension, I would have to start that process prior to my current visa expiring, correct? As for the money, you are correct on the two methods and I will probably just show my bank statement since I have well over 400,000 in it. Don't I also need a letter from the bank, or does that vary from one immigration office to the next?

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## Digby Fantona

> Correct, you're not gonna pull one outta Hull or Cardiff, but BUT they are still available in London.


The Thai Embassy website is poorly written. The staff are ignorant beyond belief and they are totally unhelpful. Take a look at the visa section and you will see that the qualifications for different types of O Visa are all muddled together. A simple reading would lead one to believe that  almost everything but the kitchen sink is required to get a visa.

I think my best bet is to contact my local Consulate today and use that office as a go-between with the Embassy. A muliti-entry visa would be very handy and I might even get one prior to my holiday in May.

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## Chico

Digby contact Liverpool consulate they are really helpful.

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## CaptainNemo

so... you can get a multi entry o visa as a spouse to a thai, and get a work permit on it and extend both for the 5 and 3 years needed, respectively?

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## toddaniels

> so... you can get a multi entry o visa as a spouse to a thai, and get a work permit on it and extend both for the 5 and 3 years needed, respectively?


nope, if you have a year long, multi-entry Non-O, you must exit the country every 90 days to get another 90 day stamp. That type of visa doesn't count towards the time needed for P/R or Citizenship.

Get a 90 day single entry Non-O based on marriage, then apply for a yearly extensions of stays for the next xxx years.

You can hold a work permit on either the year long, multi-entry or the yearly extension of stay if you got them based on marriage to a thai.

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## CaptainNemo

I thought the idea of a multi-entry was that you could just re-enter as many times as you wanted within the year that you had it for... and that was it.

90 day, single entry?! Is that because the 1-year single entry is the incorrect thing to have, or just an unnecessary extra expense?
...so that's where your 15 months comes from, hmm....

I found this on the work permit stuff... it sounds ballpark:




> In the case of work without an employerDocuments and evidence as outlined in Clauses  (1)(a), (b), (d), (g), and (h)Copy of educational qualifications or  copy  of documents asserting that the applicant’s knowledge and  experience is appropriate for/suited to  the job requesting a work  permitCopy of employment contract, copy of  sales  contract or copy of other documents stating the need for the  applicant to work  in the KingdomIn the case of work being within the  Foreign Business Act jurisdictions:  Copy of License for Operating a  Business under the Foreign Business Act


New Thai Work Permit Law 2011

is it the case then that if you get a WP on a spouse visa, it's a self-employment one only?
I mean, if you got offered a job part way into it, I guess you'd have to do a new work permit with the new prospective employer, but not a new visa; and then if or when your job with them ended, you could do yet another self-employment work permit on your same visa... I guess the worry is trying to maintain the 3-years of continuous work permit... I wonder how contiguous they have to be, or if there are ways of covering gaps by manually paying some tax for the odd month or something.

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## Digby Fantona

> is it the case then that if you get a WP on a spouse visa, it's a self-employment one only?


I don't want to be a "pain in the arse" but you must be precise in the terminology you use. It is exceedingly unlikely that a farang would be allowed to work on a self employed basis unless he was running a business. If he was, another visa would be appropriate.

If when you use the term "self-employment you mean paid employment with an employer, that is you being the worker, then you are correct. A new work permit is required on change of employment but the same visa continues.

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## CaptainNemo

Well... the point was made that you can get a work permit on a spouse visa... so when you look at all the usual work permit stuff it talks about a work permit to work for a company...

AFAIK if your Thai spouse wanted to hire you for their company, they would have to have 2,000,000 THB capital, and 4 Thai staff, so...

...if this is something different in terms of a route to getting a work permit, then looking through that law I've linked to above, the only thing I have seen at first peremptory glance is this "work permit without employer" thing... 

...and yes it looks like garbled rubbish on the face of it, but I'm guessing that Todd might have the appropriate Thai text of the appropriate Thai law to clear this one up.

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## toddaniels

STOP confusing a "visa" with an "extension of stay". 

A visa is just that; a sticker or stamp in your passport for a certain reason. It allows you entry into the country for a specific time.   

There are just two types of visas; tourist and Non-Immigrant. 

Non-Immigrant visas have a variety of categories. The most common are ED<-education, B<-business & O<-other. The O visa is issued for many reasons; over 50, marriage to a thai national, marriage to a foreigner legally working here, raising kids, volunteering, and a few other reasons too. 

Non-Immigrant visas are sold two ways (three actually, but I'll forgo the Type A sub-category for now).  90 day single entry which you get and then apply for an extension of stay in countryyear-long, multi-entry, which allows you to stay up to 90 days before you must exit/re-enter the country to get another 90 day stamp. <-you do that for the validity of the visa itselfThe ONLY thing that counts towards either P/R or thai citizenship is unbroken yearly extensions of stays, period, end of story <-by that I mean each yearly extension of stay is "daisy-chained" to the previous one with NO lapses in between. So, holding a year-long multi-entry visa where you border bounce every 90 days during the year DOESN'T count. It's the yearly extensions of stays that you get inside the country at your local immigration office that matter. 

A work permit is a booklet. You can't just apply to get one. You need to have the company you work for get the documentation together to go to the dept of labor and apply for it. 
The primary employer listed in the work permit carries the liability of meeting the financial criteria for you to hold the work permit.  You can have any number of other companies added to it as additional places of employment as long as the main company gives you permission to do so. 
I know people in Bangkok who do consulting and have 10 different companies & addresses in their work permit booklet. As a rule a work permit is company and address specific so you can't be employed by xxx company at yyy address yet work at a different address for them.  

FWIW; and despite clueless immigration officers and foreigner alike, there is NO such animal as either a marriage visa or a spouse visa. There is a Non-Immigrant Type O visa issued because you have a thai wife and then there's a yearly extension of stay based on that too. 
There is also NO such animal as a retirement visa either, because that visa is a Type O also and issued because you're over 50. <-I know they stamp the word retirement into your passport when you get yearly extensions of stays BUT that doesn't mean it's what it's really called.

Additionally neither a visa or a yearly extension of stay can EVER be renewed. A visa expires on its "enter before" date, and an extension of stay expires on its "admitted until" date. You apply for brand new yearly extensions of stay every year. 

I am sorry if my posts sound condescending. Honestly, I'm NOT tryin' to talk down to any of you people. I'm tryin' to talk to you on your level. Here, gimme your hand I'll pull you up here with me  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## CaptainNemo

> ...
> Non-Immigrant visas are sold two ways (three actually, but I'll forgo the Type A sub-category for now).90 day single entry which you get and then apply for an extension of stay in countryyear-long, multi-entry, which allows you to stay up to 90 days before you must exit/re-enter the country to get another 90 day stamp. <-you do that for the validity of the visa itselfThe ONLY thing that counts towards either P/R or thai citizenship is unbroken yearly extensions of stays, period, end of story <-by that I mean each yearly extension of stay is "daisy-chained" to the previous one with NO lapses in between.


So you can't just "pay tax" if you have a break in employment, (but you could have parallel employment, ideally as a main employment, such as your family firm, to maintain the daisy-chain of WP). 



> So, holding a year-long multi-entry visa where you border bounce every 90 days during the year DOESN'T count.


OK ...so if you never "used" your multi-entry, by border bouncing, and just extended it at the end (After 12 months), that sounds like it might do the same thing, but that would pointless paying for.

Essentially you are saying you can only go for P/R or Dual-Nat on a single-entry visa+extensions(+plus work permit)



> It's the yearly extensions of stays that you get inside the country at your local immigration office that matter.


Understood. You can't leave the country for 5 years... if you want citizenship.



> A work permit is a booklet. You can't just apply to get one. You need to have the company you work for get the documentation together to go to the dept of labor and apply for it. 
> The primary employer listed in the work permit carries the liability of meeting the financial criteria for you to hold the work permit.  You can have any number of other companies added to it as additional places of employment as long as the main company gives you permission to do so. 
> I know people in Bangkok who do consulting and have 10 different companies & addresses in their work permit booklet. As a rule a work permit is company and address specific so you can't be employed by xxx company at yyy address yet work at a different address for them.


Useful info.

So on a "spouse visa" (bear with me), when you said you can get a WP, that is nothing to do with your spouse or self-employment or something... it's just that the WP issuer can't cancel your visa that lets you be in the country, just your WP that lets you work there.



> FWIW; and despite clueless immigration officers and foreigner alike, there is NO such animal as either a marriage visa or a spouse visa. There is a Non-Immigrant Type O visa issued because you have a thai wife and then there's a yearly extension of stay based on that too. 
> ...


 Well, that does rather sound like the definition... but if you're quoting the Thai words; I guess it doesn't really matter, the effect is the same.




> Additionally neither a visa or a yearly extension of stay can EVER be renewed. A visa expires on its "enter before" date, and an extension of stay expires on its "admitted until" date. You apply for brand new yearly extensions of stay every year.


you get your 3-month single-entry, to enter, then it is destroyed on expiry and you extend your stay for 12 months based on your marriage to a Thai ("right to a family life etc...).
I guess you need to keep the original marriage cert with you to do this each time or copies are ok? I guess she doesn't have to accompany you to get it sorted?




> I am sorry if my posts sound condescending. Honestly, I'm NOT tryin' to talk down to any of you people. I'm tryin' to talk to you on your level. Here, gimme your hand I'll pull you up here with me


No, it's fine... I'm just ironing out every wrinkle, so I don't mind, i just want to remove any confusion.

On ThaiVisa, I saw a user called Patrick state that P/R is a pre-requisite for citizenship, you are disagreeing with this, aren't you?

----------


## Neverna

Neemo, you really how to misunderstand. The multi-entry or single entry part is neither here nor there. It's the having to border bounce (every 90 days) that is the issue. Likewise, you can leave the country if you want so long as you follow the correct procedure (depending on your specific situation).

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## CaptainNemo

> Neemo, you really how to misunderstand.


Neeverna... what you babble on about are? You really how to say know do!




> The multi-entry or single entry part is neither here nor there. It's the having to border bounce (every 90 days) that is the issue. Likewise, you can leave the country if you want so long as you follow the correct procedure (depending on your specific situation).


Yeah, so you get a single (not a multi, because Todd says so), and and land in Swampy and drive up to Surin or Mukdahan or wherever to your Thai family barn, then after a couple of months, you go to the local immy office with your bank printouts and your marriage cert, and get a 1-year extension, then you go on 2 weeks' holiday to a trailer park in Grimsby or Hastings or wherever... and you can just stroll back in to Thailand and resume wherever you were on your 1-year extension of stay?

----------


## Barty

> On ThaiVisa, I saw a user called Patrick state that P/R is a pre-requisite for citizenship, you are disagreeing with this, aren't you?


  As I have already told you numerous times;




> There are two common ways for foreigners to obtain citizenship:
> 
>   1. through holding PR for the required amount of time or 
>   2. through being married to a Thai citizen for the required amount of time. 
> 
>   Whichever route is chosen, the applicant must have had a work permit for three continuous years and must show evidence of paying the correct income tax for those three years.


 
  If one is married to a Thai citizen, PR is not required. You only need it if you are not married to a Thai citizen. Reading through your posts I assume you are married to a Thai citizen. If you are it makes no sense for you to worry about PR since obtaining Thai citizenship through marriage is much easier, faster, and significantly cheaper.

  Also, reading through your posts it would appear that you are possibly looking to find some way to set up a business with your wife so that you can get a work permit and the necessary annual tax returns. If this is what you are doing I would advise you to be very careful as the citizenship process has the special branch of the police and a lot of other government agencies investigating your history in Thailand. If they think that you are trying to get around the rules or are fraudulent in any way your application will be rejected.

 May I suggest that next time you are in Bangkok to go the special branch of the police with your wife and ask them the requirements. They are very nice people and they try to be helpful. You will get all of the answers straight  from the horses mouth.

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## toddaniels

> OK ...so if you never "used" your multi-entry, by border bouncing, and just extended it at the end (After 12 months), that sounds like it might do the same thing, but that would pointless paying for.  Essentially you are saying you can only go for P/R or Dual-Nat on a single-entry visa+extensions(+plus work permit)


If you hold a year-long, multi entry Non-O visa you HAVE to border-bounce <-stamp out of thailand, stamp in&out of another country and stamp back into thailand EVERY 90 days to get another 90 day stamp. 

A prerequisite when applying for a yearly extension of stay is that you hold a Non-Immigrant Visa, so whether it was a 90 day single entry or a year-long multi-entry, it doesn't make a difference. When you have 30 days left on any of the admitted until stamps you go apply for the yearly extension of stay   




> Understood. You can't leave the country for 5 years... if you want citizenship.


Wrong, of course you can leave the country! You'd just need a re-entry permit to keep your current extension of stay alive AND return to thailand before it expired so you could apply for the next extension of stay.




> So on a "spouse visa" (bear with me), when you said you can get a WP, that is nothing to do with your spouse or self-employment or something... it's just that the WP issuer can't cancel your visa that lets you be in the country, just your WP that lets you work there.


Correct



> I guess you need to keep the original marriage cert with you to do this each time or copies are ok? I guess she doesn't have to accompany you to get it sorted?


Getting a yearly extension of stay based on marriage to a thai nation requires a PILE 'o paperwork, photos, the marriage certificates, copies of your wife's i/d, house book, copies of pages in your passport, a map to you house, etc.  YES your wife goes with you EVERY year. Once you apply your application will go under consideration for 30 days (and depending on where live you may have an in home visit from the immigration officers), then you go back to get the extension stamped in AND if you are going to leave the country during the year, you'd need a re-entry permit too 



> On ThaiVisa, I saw a user called Patrick state that P/R is a pre-requisite for citizenship, you are disagreeing with this, aren't you?


It is not a requirement that you hold PR in order to get thai citizenship IF you are married to a thai national. You work the required number of years, you have unbroken extensions of stays for the required years, you pay tax the required years etc.

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## toddaniels

FWIW: it is NOT possible for two extensions of stays to be valid at the same time. 

No matter how early you apply for the following years extension, the minute they stamp the next yearly extension in your passport it cancels the old one. I've applied for a yearly extension 45 days before my current one expired (because Bangkok allows that). The second I got the new extension the old one is canceled (even though the permission to stay date on it hadn't expired yet).

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## toddaniels

OFF TOPIC:
Another anecdotal thing I'll relate is, it seems when you apply for a new yearly extension of stay and you had a re-entry permit on the prior extension, EVEN if that re-entry permit hasn't expired, once you get a new extension, the old re-entry permit isn't valid anymore. You need to buy a new one so the date is "sync'd" to your current extension.

A friend applied for a new yearly extension of stay 40 days before his current one expired. After he got the new extension he decide to go out of country on a vacation. 

He thought, seeing as he'd bought a re-entry permit on old extension and seeing as it was still valid, he'd be fine comin' back into the country as long as he did so before the "length of stay until" date stamped on the re-entry permit

WRONG!! When he flew into the country the officer saw he'd gotten a new yearly extension and even though the re-entry permit expiration date hadn't passed he was told it was no good. He got stamped in on a 30 day visa exempt stamp. 

He even went down to the Immigration office in Suvarnabhumi and filed an appeal (which you can do on almost EVERY decision an immigration officer makes). It was reviewed and they called him a couple days later stating they made the correct ruling, his re-entry permit was "tied" to his previous extension, not the new one. 

He had to start the entire get a 90 day single entry Non-O, wait and apply for a yearly extension of stay process all over again..

Like I said, it was off topic, but still good to know

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## Seekingasylum

> FWIW: it is NOT possible for two extensions of stays to be valid at the same time. 
> 
> No matter how early you apply for the following years extension, the minute they stamp the next yearly extension in your passport it cancels the old one. I've applied for a yearly extension 45 days before my current one expired (because Bangkok allows that). The second I got the new extension the old one is canceled (even though the permission to stay date on it hadn't expired yet).


Indeed, they cannot be contemporaneous but are contiguous. The latter is a renewal of the former.

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## toddaniels

> Indeed, they cannot be contemporaneous but are contiguous. The latter is a renewal of the former.


You just won't stop beating that dead whore will you?  :Wink: 

Plus your free question credits about visa/extension stuff with 'Just-Ask-Tod' have expired too. And no, they CAN'T be renewed.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

FWIW: contiguous means touching one another, so yes, the extensions do touch (that's what makes them unbroken extensions of stays), BUT they are brand spanking new yearly extensions requiring the exact same paperwork you supplied the year before. Nowhere on your passport OR on the TM.7 application you fill out for an  extension of stay is the word renewal written in either thai or english. That clueless immigration offices and foreigners call it that doesn't mean that's what it is. 

In fact the ONLY extension of stay where it matters if your extensions are unbroken or not is the yearly extension of stay based on being over 50 (retirement). 

If you're going the banked money for the first yearly extension the money needs to be seasoned for 60 days before your application and for every subsequent year's extension it needs to be seasoned for 3 months.

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## toddaniels

I do wanna apologize to all of you for the way I post on here so:

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## rickschoppers

^^
Tod, you have way more patience trying to explain to the clueless than I do. With this one, you may just have to cut your losses since he has lost that common sense gene and is unable to learn.   :tieme:

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## Seekingasylum

You chaps really are separated from us by language but in truth I rather think it is a euphemism for septic illiteracy.

Err, when I buy a car ( that's an auto by the way ) I need insurance because without it I am not allowed to drive. I get a policy which runs from one day at 2400hrs to exactly a year later. Sometime before the policy expires I apply for a new policy which replaces the old one. In my country this process is called a "renewal" i.e. the old policy is renewed. I get a new policy replacing the old one. 

I need to renew my passport every ten years. I fill in a wee box on the application form which states I am applying to "renew" a previously issued document which is due to expire.

My TV licence is due to expire. I complete a form which conforms I am "renewing" an existing licence .

And hey, I am going down to Immigration later this year and I shall be "renewing" my extension replacing the old one before it expires.

R_E_N_E_W_A_L : the action of extending the validity of a period.

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## CaptainNemo

> Originally Posted by CaptainNemo
> 
> OK ...so if you never "used" your multi-entry, by border bouncing, and just extended it at the end (After 12 months), that sounds like it might do the same thing, but that would pointless paying for.  Essentially you are saying you can only go for P/R or Dual-Nat on a single-entry visa+extensions(+plus work permit)
> 
> 
> If you hold a year-long, multi entry Non-O visa you HAVE to border-bounce <-stamp out of thailand, stamp in&out of another country and stamp back into thailand EVERY 90 days to get another 90 day stamp. 
> 
> A prerequisite when applying for a yearly extension of stay is that you hold a Non-Immigrant Visa, so whether it was a 90 day single entry or a year-long multi-entry, it doesn't make a difference. When you have 30 days left on any of the admitted until stamps you go apply for the yearly extension of stay   
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Tod, very helpful.  :Smile:

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