#  >  > Non Asia Travel Forums >  >  > Australia & New Zealand Travel Forum >  >  Australian age pension

## gosmk2

I have just been reading from Human resourses Australian working life residence
tightening proportionality requirements updated 15 March 2016  and this budjet measure is subject to the passage of legislation
I worked in Australia for 27 years and have been receiving my pension for 6 years
according to the legislation if I am out of Australia before the 1st January 2017 and i 
do not go back in under 26 weeks will come under the 35 year rule and I will lose
8/35ths of my pension
Am I reading this right

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## bindog

^ You may have found your answer by now elsewhere, but my understanding is that right now you will lose 8/35th once you have been away for 26 weeks.  After 1 January that period will drop to 6 weeks.  (But the website does say this is subject to legislation being passed, and there's a Federal election on next week...) 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/cor...y-requirements

There was a good Oz Aged Pension thread going last year, I'll see if I can find it again. You may find some useful info in it.  And there has been a OAP thread running for eight years on that other Thai forum, if you're a member over there.

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## bindog

Here you go: https://teakdoor.com/living-in-thaila...-thailand.html

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## gosmk2

Thanks bindog

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## gosmk2

I beleive that when the 35 year rule came in July 1 2014 they said that if you where overseas on that date the 25 year rule would still cover you unless you went back and stayed for 6 months +

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## Lantern

I think the only thing you can guarantee is the Ozzy polies will change the goal posts whenever they feel like it.
ATM I can retire at the end of January 2022.

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## bindog

> I beleive that when the 35 year rule came in July 1 2014 they said that if you where overseas on that date the 25 year rule would still cover you unless you went back and stayed for 6 months +


Yeah, that rings a bell.  But I thought it applied if you set foot back in the country?  Still, if you've read it on the website that trumps what I have heard second-hand.   

On the 8-year-old thread I mentioned earlier several people talked up Centrelink's "international office" I think it is called.  Based in Hobart.  They are said to actually be pleasant, helpful, and know what they are talking about.  So obviously don't belong at centrelink.   :Very Happy:    The reverse-charges number on this page https://www.centrelink.gov.au/RateEs...low%3DCOMBINED  is a Hobart number, might be them.  I see also there is a Thailand toll-free number you can call.

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## bindog

> I think the only thing you can guarantee is the Ozzy polies will change the goal posts whenever they feel like it.
> ATM I can retire at the end of January 2022.


Remember not so long ago aged pensioners were sacred to pollies?  They wanted their votes.  But now that the baby boomers are starting to line up for a pension, the country suddenly says "oh shit!, how we gonna pay for that!", and aged pensioners are getting to be public enemy number 1.   

So yeah, if you don't already receive a pension and you are planning to retire overseas, I believe you should plan on never getting a pension.  I suspect we won't get anything if we go offshore.  (They already apply some vague 'residency' test when you first apply. If you fail the test then you cannot set foot outside Oz for two years, not if you want to receive a pension.)

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## bindog

Was just reading a Sydney Morning Herald "your financial questions answered" column:

Can I get the age pension and move overseas?




> [Question:] I will retire in the next six months and would like to know how much pension I will get. I am single, own my house and have $400,000 in monetary assets. I have lived in Australia for 25 years. I believe that 35 years are required to get the full pension. I am not entitled to a pension in my country. I plan to live six months of the year overseas. I have tried to get the above information through the internet, but I have not found an informative site with a list of different scenarios, where you just tick the ones that apply to you and then get a final answer. M.C.
> 
> [Answer:]Assuming $420,000 in savings, car, personal assets etc, you can expect a part pension of around $365 a fortnight at January rates while in Australia.
> 
> To get an age pension, you only need to have been an Australian resident for a continuous period of at least 10 years, or for a number of periods that total more than 10 years with one of the periods being at least 5 years, unless you (i) are a refugee, (ii) were getting partner allowance, widow allowance or widow B pension immediately before turning age pension age, or (iii) are a woman whose partner died while you were both Australian residents, and have been an Australian resident for two years immediately before claiming age pension. You may also meet the residence requirements if you lived or worked in a country with which Australia has an international social security agreement.
> 
> *You are referring, in Centrelink jargon, to "age pension portability", which you can Google, and changes are afoot, scheduled for January 1, 2017.
> *
> Currently, age pensioners (plus those getting the wife pension, widow B pension and disability support pension) continue to receive their pension payments while overseas for up to 26 weeks, that is six months. However, from January 1, this reduces to six weeks for pensioners who have lived in Australia for less than 35 years. Your payments will then be paid at a reduced rate proportional to your period of "australian working life residence".
> ...

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## TizMe

That's interesting.

I thought that the 35 year rule would effect me, as I also only have 20 years after age 16 of living in OZ.

Had been contemplating if it was worth returning for a few more years. 
Not sure that I'll really qualify with the means testing anyway.

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## Seekingasylum

What is it about the Australians and their penchant for keeping their shitty country a prison until you die?

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## terry57

^

The pension rules are in continuous flux, it wont be long before Pensioners receiving their pensions in Thailand may find themselves severely fuking challenged.

Australians receiving Australian pensions in Thailand must be very worried, if made to return to Australia because of lack of funds they would be living at the rubbish tip I'm afraid.

That's if they have burned their bridges with home and have fook all.   :Sorry1:

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## Cold Pizza

> ^
> 
> The pension rules are in continuous flux, it wont be long before Pensioners receiving their pensions in Thailand may find themselves severely fuking challenged.
> 
> Australians receiving Australian pensions in Thailand must be very worried, if made to return to Australia because of lack of funds they would be living at the rubbish tip I'm afraid.
> 
> That's if they have burned their bridges with home and have fook all.


I have a few friends in that situation (Aussies).

The pay and cost of living is obviously so vastly different.

Save, invest, Buy at least 1 house to rent out if you're going to be a long term expat.

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## terry57

I learned something very important today.

I was under the opinion that if one wants his pension sent to Thailand he must flounce back to Aussy and stay unbroken for 2 years.  :Confused: 

That only applies if one has not lived in Australia for 35 years of ones life.

I'm fookin sorted because I lived there my whole life and only fooked off at age 56 after I retired.  :Smile: 

Still a long way to go before i will receive any free gravy though. 

Paid taxes all my life also and never once received a dole check off the tight bastards.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## David48atTD

> I learned something very important today.
> 
> I was under the opinion that if one wants his pension sent to Thailand he must flounce back to Aussy and stay unbroken for 2 years. 
> 
> That only applies if one has not lived in Australia for 35 years of ones life.
> 
> I'm fookin sorted because I lived there my whole life and only fooked off at age 56 after I retired. 
> 
> Still a long way to go before i will receive any free gravy though. 
> ...



Terry, do you have a link for the info?

.

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## bindog

^^ Yes, keen to hear more.  I have heard otherwise, but that was second hand. 

You have qualified?  They deemed you 'resident'?  

I know you spend a chunk of time back home every year, and I take it you own property back there too. About how much time do you spend back there each year?

That was going to be my strategy. (I'm 54 now, and will also retire at 56 all going well.)  But how long do you have to be home each year to be 'resident'?  It would be a bastard to spend two or three months in Oz every year for 12 years (in my case), and then be told you don't qualify / must be shackled for two years in order to qualify.

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## Iceman123

It is my understanding that to qualify as "resident" you have to spend 183 days minimum per tax year (July-June)

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## bindog

There is a difference between resident for tax purposes and resident for Centrelink purposes.  The ATO requirement is documented  - it's right there in black and white, no grey areas. The Centrelink requirement is vague, grey area stuff.  If it is documented it is remarkably difficult to pin down.

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## blue

> Paid taxes all my life also and never once received a dole check off the tight bastards


mug

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## bindog

> There is a difference between resident for tax purposes and resident for Centrelink purposes.  The ATO requirement is documented  - it's right there in black and white, no grey areas. The Centrelink requirement is vague, grey area stuff.  If it is documented it is remarkably difficult to pin down.


I just called Centrelink International Services.  After enjoying the on-hold music for 15 or 20 minutes I got to speak to someone.  

Firstly, there is no defined 'residency' period.  It is at the discretion of the local Centrelink officer processing your application. 

For people like us, already retired and spending time out of the country, they look at:
 - Family Ties (Some mention of ".. and with your wife being from Thailand ...")
 - Assets
 - Travel history.  

And it is the travel history that carries the most weight.  The Centrelink officer couldn't give me a firm answer on how long you would have to spend in the country each year to be deemed resident - as she said, "there is no cut and dried answer".  She did say six weeks would not be enough, that is just a visit, it is not classed as spending time at home.

She also could not tell me how many years they go back to look at your travel history.   

The suggestion was that I speak to someone in the 'aged pension' section to try and get more information.  I will do that some day and post what they say. 

Worst case (under the current laws) is that one would need to stay shackled to Oz for two years after getting a pension.  That is what we all need to plan for IMHO if we are living in Thailand - plan to stay shackled for two years, or have enough super / investments so that you don't need their fvcking pension at all.

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## nora tittoff

I went to see centrelink yesterday to get some clarification on the changes to the pension in January next year, I was told my pension will go from $320 a fortnight to $119 a fortnight WTF.

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## Iceman123

> plan to stay shackled for two years, or have enough super / investments so that you don't need their fvcking pension at all.


The tax benefits of Super are not available if you are a non-resident

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## jamescollister

Came back to Victoria 2 weeks ago and am over the place already, centerlink is a coin toss.
They have few fixed rules by the sound of it, all case by case, first no way would they except, I, kids or wife are classed as residents, wife had to pay for a resident return visa as she has PR, but that doesn't count.

All I was really after was medicare, card had expired, have a eye problem that needs monitored and treatments at times, so explain, no treatment, if needed, looking at disability or sickness benefits in the end.

Medicare number issued and I'm off for the  free test, the word free was a bit misleading.
I need a OCT scan, not covered by medicare, $60 cost, Thailand private eye hospital $25.
Test, eyes are good for now, but I should go to a retinal specialist, ask is it covered by medicare,  payment is covered, but you have to cover the difference between what medicare pays and what the doctor charges, $200 to 300 extra.

No chance of any other assistance until head office processes the application, which must be submitted on line.

Crap weather, beer and cigs out of the world price wise, you can't afford to go out, only cheap stuff is pizza and  rut gut wine.

Think we will be heading back to Thailand sooner than planned, wife has got a job massive $14 an hour, wouldn't even cover rent if we stayed for any length of time.

Bright side, rubber price is up and if the Thais don't steal all the money, we'll get about $1000 oz a week until the dormant period.

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## bindog

> Originally Posted by bindog
> 
>  plan to stay shackled for two years, or have enough super / investments so that you don't need their fvcking pension at all.
> 
> 
> The tax benefits of Super are not available if you are a non-resident


Hmmm, now that is something to think about.  Might have to pay one of those nasty leech-like financial advisors some of my hard earned.  

Getting taxed regular PAYE on my earnings hopefully would not amount to much, our super is spread across both our accounts, my wife and me.  But 'no tax' is preferable to 'not much tax'.

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## terry57

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> 
> I learned something very important today.
> 
> I was under the opinion that if one wants his pension sent to Thailand he must flounce back to Aussy and stay unbroken for 2 years. 
> 
> That only applies if one has not lived in Australia for 35 years of ones life.
> 
> ...


Nope, 

I was reading the in depth thread on Australian Pensions over on Thai-Visa mail out.

Some dude gave out that info as people where bitching about the 2 year rule.

Dunno if its true or not but I certainly hope so.  :Smile: 

I'm not concerned as i have my own money but I'd be very happy to get something after a life time of paying Tax. 

I wouldn't import it to this shit house though, just let it build up in the Bank and blow it on Hi-So trips.  :spam2:

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## terry57

So this is how it went down.

This Convict posts up that he flew back to Aussy once he reached his pension age. 

He was in the same boat as myself that being he had worked all his life in Australia and retired at 56. 

He maintained his life in Australia, that being a house, Medicare and other assorted stuff but basically was out of Australia most of the time since retirement and returning a few times a year for short periods.  

So he posts up that he went back to Aussy once he reached his Pension age, goes down to Centrelink, does all the paper work for his aged pension and fly's out 7 days later back to Thailand.   

The plebs call him out over it because it is assumed that one must flounce back to Aussy and complete two years unbroken in Country before one qualifies for the Aussie Pension. 

He posts up this.....

 " The two years unbroken rule does not apply to people who have lived in Australia unbroken for 35 years. " 

The thread stopped there.  :Smile: 

I have no idea whether this is true or not and I can not find anything on the AUD Centrelink web-sight about it. 

It would be real nice to get this little bit of info confirmed if this is indeed the case. 

Regards myself,  I flounce back to Perth twice a year for around 4-5 weeks each time.

I do this purely to show my face and confirm to the Filth that i have not burned my bridges with Australia to live full time in this shit hole. 

Gota be a fukin nut case to cut ties with Australia and a massive " Fuk That ".  :spam2:

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## bindog

^

That TV thread just descended into the usual name-calling waste of time. There's only one guy that seems to know what he is talking about towards the end.

The two years unbroken rule and the 35 years thing I think is confused.  35 years is to do with portability - if you have less than 35 years you lose a % of your pension if you leave the country for more than 26 weeks (dropping to six weeks soon).  This will affect my wife for example if we ever get a pension.  Deducting time out of the country (which I believe they do) she currently has 23 years towards her 'Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR)'.  If she got a pension today and left Oz, she would get 23/35 of a full pension - about 65%. ( Don't know what that means when you get a "married couple" pension, but you can be damn sure it won't fall in our favour!  :ourrules:  )

The two years unbroken thing applies to all of us I believe,_ if we are non-resident when granted the OAP_.  Leave the country within two years, lose 100% of the pension. But I really hope that is just one of those internet forum "facts", based on what some blowhard said once upon a time. 

BTW Terry, from my speaking to Centrelink yesterday, you would probably be classed as 'non resident'.  As she said to me, a six week visit is not enough to maintain your residency.  Maybe two six-week visits are though?  But they look at us all individually.  If you are living with your Thai wife on a plot of land somewhere, I would say that would be worse for you than if you're single and just pissing your money away down Pattaya way.  IMHO.  

And you are almost certainly non-resident for tax purposes, which means you owe 32.5% (one third!) tax on every dollar earned in Oz - no tax-free threshold.  (Thanks Iceman)  But again ATO residency is not cut and dried - the ATO website has a few ifs buts and maybes.  Based on court decisions brought about by wealthy cvnts and their smart accountants I'd say.

I looked into this last night btw, pretty sure superannuation pensions and annuities don't count as "income" - see here:  ATO ID 2007/22 - Assessability of an allocated pension from an Australian superannuation fund received by a Sri Lankan resident.  But still digging on that one, and will get financial advice well before I lose my residency - you'd be a mug to base these massive decisions on what you read on the internet right?   :Smile:  

I was planning to take bits and pieces from my Super as I need it, but looks like it will have to be some sort of formal pension stream.  So I learned something - a hearty thanks to Iceman!  

Anyway, I'll give Centrelink another call next week about pension residency and portability, speak to the actual pension people this time, and post here what they say.  

This is the Dept of Human Services 'portability' page btw - you can see the history of tightening the screws.  Which is why I am planning on not getting any pension out of the bastards in 12 years time.   https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-dep...pport-payments

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## bindog

> Came back to Victoria 2 weeks ago and am over the place already, centerlink is a coin toss.
> They have few fixed rules by the sound of it, all case by case, first no way would they except, I, kids or wife are classed as residents, wife had to pay for a resident return visa as she has PR, but that doesn't count.
> 
> All I was really after was medicare, card had expired, have a eye problem that needs monitored and treatments at times, so explain, no treatment, if needed, looking at disability or sickness benefits in the end.
> 
> Medicare number issued and I'm off for the  free test, the word free was a bit misleading.
> I need a OCT scan, not covered by medicare, $60 cost, Thailand private eye hospital $25.
> Test, eyes are good for now, but I should go to a retinal specialist, ask is it covered by medicare,  payment is covered, but you have to cover the difference between what medicare pays and what the doctor charges, $200 to 300 extra.
> 
> ...


Welcome home!  

You can see things are getting tight.  The economy shrank last quarter, so we're just one bad quarter away from a recession.  We pissed the resources boom away and now just have the hangover to deal with, along with all the middle-class welfare the idiots introduced at the time.    :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

You had no problem qualifying for Medicare then, even though you were 'non resident'?  Aside from having to wait for a new card I mean. 

That rot gut wine btw - my wife loves the 'soft white' version of the cleanskin wines from Dan Murphy's (liquor store).  It's only about $3 / 80 baht a bottle.  Tastes like lolly water to me, but I'm more of a cabernet-merlot drinker. 

And you want to research rubber trees while you are "home" - use the local version, you can cut out the middle man.   :Very Happy:

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## terry57

^^

Good info thanks.

I'm fully self funded and expect to get fok all out of Australia pension  if I do not return.  I will not be returning unless my health goes seriously tits up and this is why I pay into my Private health fund there and retain my house. 

Never know EH. 

But I will always go back twice a year for 4-6 weeks. Love seeing my good mates, cousins, checking my house and then hitting the road for a great road trip.

I'm finding now that after getting back to Australia I'm usually ready to get the fok out of Perth after 4 weeks. Bolt up to Bali for a few weeks and then up to BKK which I must say is a very happy experience getting back here. 

Regards Tax, the tax free threshold on Super funds this year was around 190 K. Once one hits 60 years of age it's tax free. So once I hit 60 next year I can draw the complete wedge out and blow it all at Nana plaza.  :Smile: 

That means, Between age 56 when I retired and age 60 I can draw a total amount of 190 K from my Super fund tax free. If I draw over 190 K I must pay 15 % tax on the withdrawal.

After 60 I pay no tax at all on any amount of the withdrawal.  

So in my case I have not gone anywhere near the 190 K withdrawal limit  so I have never paid any tax and will never pay any Tax on withdrawals on my Super.

Unless they change the law that is.

I must do a annual Tax return  every year. Withdrawals from my Super fund is classed as an earning as is my rental income. 

Have never had to pay any tax.

So what about the guy who recons he went back to Aussy to sort his pension out, all done and dusted in 7 days ???

Is he bullshitting or what ?

I dunno.

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## bindog

^ Dunno Terry, if he's bullshitting or not.  I hope not!  

Maybe he was lucky, before the rules were tightened.  Or he was spending a lot of time in Oz, and was 'resident'.  Maybe he transferred over from another type of pension - disability support or something.  Kinda annoying when people make these statements and don't give any details eh? 

I'll give Centrelink a call one morning during the week, see what I can get out of them.  

That 'resident for tax purposes' thing though.  I was talking about income like from renting out your place in Oz, not about you Super lump sum.  It sounds to me you may be liable for 32.5% on every dollar you get in rent.  $30k rent = $10k tax.  On your tax return there would be a box to tick if you are / are not resident or something?  (I have an accountant do mine while I'm still working, never see the forms.)

Have a read of these: 
https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/I...ur-tax-return/

https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/I...tax-residency/

One of the blokes on the TV thread, in amongst all his bluster, mentioned that he had to sell up in Oz to avoid this 32.5% tax.     :17:

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## terry57

^

Nope, I declare every cent I earn on my Rental house, remember Deductions come out of the gross rent though.   Council rates ETC.....

My withdrawals from my Super are auto reported to the Tax department and  Pre-entered when I do my Tax.   They know everything already.

I have never had to pay one cent in Tax.   I'm under the Limit.

This Tax issue is Governed by what ones yearly income is.  If I was earning a shit load of money still I'd need to pay tax for sure.

I just pull a bit of play money out of my Super every 5 months and walk it into Thailand. Maybe 20 K AUD all up.  I pay all my stuff by Credit card so need minimal cash.

My rental income just covers my yearly bills in Perth, covers my rent in Thailand and the rest gets banged into my bank in Perth. Not a lot left once I cover the cost of keeping my life in Perth and maintaining stuff in Thailand. 

My biggest expense is when I return to Perth,  I burn through 1 K AUD  a week very easily but I'm living large and not counting. I worked all my life so now is spending time, What ya don't spend will only be left in the bank when ya die. 

Further more, When it comes to tax issues the Self funded retiree is in a different boat than Johnny Punter.

Anyway, if I live to be 67 I will be fronting up to Centrelink in Perth to see if there is any gravy left for me.

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