#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  Why I'm Not Retiring In The LOS

## Curious George

Let's begin by stating that these are my views only. If I bash the Thais, or their Country, it is because of my experience and how it affected me as an individual. This is not to be construed as an anti-Thaiophile thread.

I'm a few months away from full retirement age, in the USA. Because of this, I qualify to sign up for Social Security payments. Without substantial savings, the Social Security payment means poverty level living, or below. My financial base is poor enough, not to allow my retirement at this time. I find that being able to afford to live in the US, I will need to work until I am no longer able. This is not a happy thought, and certainly would open the door for discussion about retiring somewhere else affordable.

My first visit to Thailand was over sixteen years ago. At that time, I had no thoughts of remarrying, or moving there for that matter. Not until a year later after meeting my love, Thai Wife, and marrying her, did I consider the possibility of retiring in Thailand. While I wouldn't be flush with money, and on a frugal budget, I probably could actually retire. The question to be discussed later on in this thread is - The quality of life when retiring in Thailand. If I uproot from the US and move to Thailand, I am at an age that wouldn't allow my moving back and starting over.

Let me take the blame up front for almost all of the observations and frustrations coming up in subsequent posts. I cannot understand or speak Thai. I gave it a concerted effort several years ago, and failed miserably. This is not the first time in my life that I've tried to learn a second language and didn't succeed. Yes, I know a few words, but not enough to fit into any conversation. I miss so much of what is being said, that I finally shut down the listening process. I know that everyday exposure would improve my abilities, but from previous experience, I doubt it would be good enough for me to be actually included in the goings on. Continually being on the outside looking in, does not make for a happy existence in the waning years of my life.

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## dirtydog

> I will need to work until I am no longer able.


Thats not a nice thing, but your social check and that should let you lead a nice lifestyle in a non major tourist area of Thailand, ok you aint gonna be able to do that in Bangkok as it is bloody expensive there, but there are many cheaper areas.

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## Curious George

^Yes, I agree. That's why I've seriously looked at Chiang Rai and the surrounding area. I really like it there, both the people and weather wise. You will see in future posts that being able to afford retirement may not be an answer to overall happiness.

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## daveboy

Excellent start to the thread CG looking forward to reading more.

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## friscofrankie

I am not your age, a fuckin youngster compared to you to be exact.   :Wink:  I'm ten years away (I think) from full SS benefits.  But I think the powers that bee have found a way to fuck me out of even that.

I will want to work until I am no longer able.
Now let me explain. 

I never was much of a nine-to-fiver, ever.  But what ever I decided to do to make money I did well, and I worked by my own rules; never held a job over 4 years in my life (was miserable as fuck the last two on *that* one). i have spent my life in semi-retirement and I plan to continue to do so, until I drop like a goddam stone; cold, dead and just so much meat.  Fuck financial responsibility, fuck livin' forever or living prudently.  So.

My opinion may differ from your own.  :Smile:  

Or not  :Very Happy: 

You haven;t gone into why you've had this change of heart. So without any real reason on the table I'll just ramble.

On SS here you'll do very well in CM you will live extremely well, and if you stay offa them "bad streets," Like a fuckin king.  I ain't got as much time in as you; ain't likely to get in any more. an' I'm good fer about $13, 14-1500/mo. OK. Iit ain't 60K any more, might be by that time though, (or maybe it'll be zero, who knows?)  you gotta be worth a lot more.

 You can find shit to do.  Sitting at home coding can be a bitch some times but life has it's moments, moments like I lived my life, back when. Truth be known, I ain't gotta watch my back near as much here as I did back in the US.

You work (a litten bit) at it, you could find work to keep your hand in and buy that one rai plot in some rice field, and build that "place to die."    if you're worried about gettin by and not havin enough to get back, Your best bet is come here to stay then  :Smile: 

I (personally) don;t consider finances a reason to not live here you can make it where ever you are if you have to.  I want something bad enough I tend to put myself into that "have to" situation.  Kinda like that "sink or swim" school of aquatic-sport education, You don't seem like kinda dude need ironclad guarantees or too many assurances.  

yo have to, you can live here on 10k easy. two months of that and you can "escape to 'merica" no problem, with that SS check.

With 16 - 1800 you'll do OK you can find some work to do while you're here so you work a few years and by the time you're drinkin' yer peas that SS check is gonna be more'n enough.



Retiring here

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## dirtydog

Got to admit i have never given any thought to my UK govt pension, I think they give you enough money per week to treat yourself to a fish and chips takeaway once per week, and then the rest of the week you got to eat boiled cabbage, yeah, aint gonna bother donating to that one for a while  :Smile:

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## Spin

^ the UK govt pension will disappear up its own arshole never to be seen again with the next 5 years, It totally unviable

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## Sanuk Canuk

"Let me take the blame up front for almost all of the observations and frustrations coming up in subsequent posts. I cannot understand or speak Thai. I gave it a concerted effort several years ago, and failed miserably."

I don't doubt that you gave this an honest effort but I am curious if you took intensive lessons or anything. Currently I am taking a Thai language course and am learning a fair bit despite the fact that I am doing no home studying. I don't think getting to a reasonable level in Thai would be beyond you if you had the right teacher/school/support. I will admit though that it is allot of work. Just be sure you go to a good school if you decide to try it, a bad school will be worse than trying to learn from a book.

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## peterpan

CG, I don't undersatnd why you think that speaking Thai is a prerequiste to living here. I have a reasonable understanding of Thai, I can read it but my Thai writing skills are not good. BUT very rarely use it. I have given up speaking Thai around the house as I need my girls to regard English as their first language. Since my wife and I began to use English, my duaghters English skills have improved vastlly. We only use Thai as  a last resort when they have difficulty getting a concept across in English. Where I live in Udon there are many long stay Westerners who don't understand Thai AT ALL.    Good thread by the way. :Smile:

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## Bobk_nyc

Maybe that is my problem, I have been learning thai out of a book.

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## Dougal

There has been quite  abit of comment here already around the ability to speak Thai. But as another Thai struggler I personally don't find it a handicap in general and I am coming round to the opinion that even with a good working knowledge of the language I would probably struggle to find anyone in the village here with anything useful to say anyway.

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## Curious George

Addressing the Thai language:

Yes, my concerted effort was not one that I would consider self consuming. I made an effort with books, tapes and the wife prompting. The rate of learning was the same as previously experienced with formal education in German and Spanish. I can learn what a foreign word means, and I then repeat it to myself again - and again - as a memory exercise, and end up losing it within hours. If interested, there is a learning disability which renders written text-deciphering, sound-symbol connections and/or the sequencing of information very difficult.

You could consider this as being my excuse, and that I am basically lazy (my wife thinks this is the case). If you looked at my educational history, you would find that my 'touch typing' was great to 35 WPM - I could not advance any further. Much earlier in my life, I took years of piano lessons. I did well to the point of sight reading and transferring the written notes to the keys without looking at the keyboard. I stopped piano lessons. In the US Army, I was required to learn Morse Code. I again did very well up to a point where I became limited. I needed to visually relate a sound group to a letter, and could not automatically, without thought, write a letter due to a sound, or key a sequence by sight.

You will see that all of the above requires a similar mental transposition. When hearing a sound, or seeing an object, the brain needs to process it by spontaneous free association, without the need for extra mentation. Consciously analyzing the auricle or visual input results in an outcome that is difficult and slow to arrive.

Maybe I should write a thesis on the subject. It could be invaluable to the Adjarns in their pursuit to teach a second language in the LOS.  :Smile:  

Most of the frustrations, that I will detail in the following posts, could have a different outcome if I knew the language. Certainly, there is more than language involved, but with a better understanding of the language, I may not have been turned off to retiring in Thailand to the extent described. Communication is one of the basics of human existence.

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## peterpan

> There has been quite abit of comment here already around the ability to speak Thai. But as another Thai struggler I personally don't find it a handicap in general and I am coming round to the opinion that even with a good working knowledge of the language I would probably struggle to find anyone in the village here with anything useful to say anyway.


That sums it up very well; if you are involved in a business here, you do need a good working knowledge of Thai. Retirement, even out in the country here, almost no need for it. All my friends here are Western, I have and less so, desire any interaction with Thai's other than my wife. 

The other point I would make is that, when I lived Australia / NZ I had very little interaction with my neighbors, nice people but I hardly knew them. Friends tended to come from work or my sport contacts (sailing). Even though I have only lived in this Moo baan 6 months, I have accumulated a wide range of very good friends, none of my own nationality, but without exception, all are great guys. In my experience this doesn't happen so easily in the west.

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## El Gibbon

C G, first its good to see you posting again.

I know you've read my thread as you've commented on a couple of items. You'll note that I'm of "Retirement AGE!"   :Smile: 

I've lived in Thailand full time for over 7 years and am totally useless (not quite but close) when it comes to the language. My transliteration of Thai words has even come up short and have been corrected by Mammers and others. In short - my Thai suckkkkkkks. :Mad: 

The language barrier was of no significance while living in Phuket or Bangers. I was somewhat apprehensive when we moved to the "sticks" here in Chantaburi. We live in a small village outside Makham and I am one of two farang living in the whole tambon.

Oddly enough my lack of language skills has led to some very intereseting situations and the development of a couple of pretty decent Thai friends. As long as I've not forgotten to bring my little yellow book with me, I do OK.  (Robertson's Practical English Thai Dictionary)

I have had a hatred of learning any language - goes back a long way to my childhood. It is not a dislike but an ingrained hatred, I know the reason but can do nothing about it. I've taken a couple of courses, read books, tried several computer based probrams, listened to all kinds of 'good' advice from those that have learned, and am STILL worthess.

What has worked on a limited fashion is using the above mentioned book and just diving into conversations. It is difficult and tedious and frustrating to my Thai friends but they have patience with me. After looking up the word for 'work' about a hundred times I finally got it! Now gnahn comes to my lips automatically when speaking with a Thai.

One of the better things I did, but didn't keep up with it, was using flash cards with about 200 common words to try and memorize them. Got lazy - another excuse - and didn't follow up.

Living in a totally agricultural village you would not think that English would be of any value at all. Everytime I go to the BiL's or next door to the neighbors I run into a Thai small holder that wants to practice English. Just last evening I was corralled by the local fish sauce monger for a half hour while he polished his English skills. Yep, a guy in a broken down pick-up truck peddling fish sauce throught the region spent time with me 'cause he hadn't had a chance to speak any English in months. What is funny about this is he cut in on another guy, a fruit grower, to get his practice in. I never bother to ask how they initially learned the language, who cares. 

When shopping in a city the language is never a problem. If the sales person doesn't understand, he or she runs off to get some young college student to translate. Happens all the time. Two days ago I was looking for a systemic liquid herbicide, even though the Ms. speaks pretty good English I couldn't get even her to understand what I wanted. The shop owner made a phone call, handed me the phone, I told the lady what I was looking for, shopkeeper listens for a couple of seconds and hands me a bottle of exactly what I was looking for, name brand and all.

I have found that the old saying about the Thai's appreciating you at least attempting to learn is absolutely true. They treat you with the patience of a parent being patient with a 5 year old, you know how that can go.

I would highly recommend that you remove the "language barrier" from your list of obstacles to your retirement. With Thai Wife by your side and a little yellow book you will have absolutely no problem to the degree your currently thinking.

E. G.

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## Spin

I dont see learning Thai as any priority, the conversations on offer rarely extend beyond idle chatter so i can see no incentive to progress beyond basic communication. As long as i can remember the thai words for who, why, when, where, etc etc I will be happy here.

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## Marmite the Dog

I agree with all of the above who don't rate learning Thai as the be all and end all of living here.

You WILL pick bits up when you need to. Some will stick and some won't (The Thai for Victory Monument refusing to stick to my pea brain), but it's no big deal. The main appeal for me has been the other westerners that I have met here. As Peter said, there are some lovely people living here and you really can find yourself in amongst decent people in a good community (a bit like TD without the morons).

I would recommend that you retire to Thailand. If it doesn't work out, just blame CMN.  :Smile:

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## stroller

^^
I agree, it's more about socialising and feeling part of the group, which we never fully will as white-noses, no matter how well a grip on the language we have.
But this has advantages, too, specially as an older gentleman, since the mix of old age and being farang commands a degree of respect and courtesy unheard of in most Westen countries - unless you behave like a complete knob that is.

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## Thetyim

I've been here over 12 years now and my thai is very poor.
It does bother me. I know enough to get by but only just.

Brits tend to be more insular than Seppos.
I have seen Seppo's standing in the street introducing themselves to everyone (and no, he wasn't a Mormon)
If you don't need a lot of interaction with people then Thailand is a good place to retire but stay away from the tourist traps.

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## Storekeeper

I'm enjoying retirement very well being surrounded by people who don't speak English while myself not speaking a lick of Thai.

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## DFCarlson

> I've been here over 12 years now and my thai is very poor. It does bother me. I know enough to get by but only just.
> 
> Brits tend to be more insular than Seppos. I have seen Seppo's standing in the street introducing themselves to everyone (and no, he wasn't a Mormon) If you don't need a lot of interaction with people then Thailand is a good place to retire but stay away from the tourist traps.


 
I've been here for not quite a year. I live in an area where practically no one else speaks English. I have picked up just enough Thai to get by most of the time, but in no way could I carry on an intelligent conversation with anyone. It does bother me also... I think you are far more isolated here if you can't speak the language. IMHO learning the language of the country that you have chosen as a long-term residence will give you a far more enjoyable experience.

There are several members of my wife's family that I would really enjoy talking to and sharing experiences, and the only way that I'm going to be able to do that is to become more proficient in Thai. To that end I have picked up a recommended beginner's course in speaking, listening, reading and writing and I will go through it chapter by chapter. It seems like a good way to start without spending a lot of money, and I think I will be able to progress if I don't get too impatient. I don't have a particular ear for languages, but, as always, we'll see... Regularly scheduled sessions and a lot of repitition have worked for me in the past, but the last time I tried learning a new language was 20 years ago.

As far as retiring here goes, I have had a very good experience so far. Being married with family is not the same experience as unmarried and fancy free, and the former suits me fine. My Thai wife's family has been very accepting and helpful, and to me the only thing really lacking is my own lack of proficiency in the Thai language... and I will work to correct that!

BTW... what's a "seppo"?

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## Marmite the Dog

> BTW... what's a "seppo"?


You (probably).

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## ChiangMai noon

> I'm enjoying retirement very well being surrounded by people who don't speak English while myself not speaking a lick of Thai.


Tell us what you have been doing.

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## ChiangMai noon

> My Thai wife's family has been very accepting and helpful, and to me the only thing really lacking is my own lack of proficiency in the Thai language... and I will work to correct that!


I speak Thai well enough to converse with the in laws, problem is we have nothing in common whatsoever and end up ignoring eachother.
Fortunately I only see them once or twice a year.

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## stroller

> I'm enjoying retirement very well being surrounded by people who don't speak English while myself not speaking a lick of Thai.


First or second week over here now, SK?  :Wink:

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## Storekeeper

> First or second week over here now, SK?


Nope ... I was there for about 12 days the end of March and left to finalize my retirement. I'll be returning in the next 24-72 hours.

At the moment I'm setting on the Kirkland/Redmond border in Washington.

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## DFCarlson

> Originally Posted by DFCarlson
> 
> BTW... what's a "seppo"?
> 
> 
> You (probably).


Ayup, I'm an American, but you might be surprised how hard it is to put us into categories.

Calling every Yank a Seppo might be a bit like calling every Aussie a Westie... if you didn't know any Australians!

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## Storekeeper

I'm a seppo ... and damn proud of it.  :Smile:

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## ChiangMai noon

you are all seppos.
It comes from cockney rhyming slang...

septic tank = yank, thus all citizens of the US are seppos.

I thought you were Danish by the way.

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## Thetyim

> I thought you were Danish by the way.


That's Carlsberg.  He is Carlson  :Smile:

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## Curious George

Thanks for all the encouragement. I also agree that language is not a major problem when considering getting around or taking care of necessities in Thailand. My issues deal with the day-to-day encounters with family and neighbors, and the prospect of a happy retirement.




> I would highly recommend that you remove the "language barrier" from your list of obstacles to your retirement. With Thai Wife by your side and a little yellow book you will have absolutely no problem to the degree your currently thinking.


I purchased the 'little yellow book' on my first visit to Thailand, and agree that it is very useful. The problem I face is not when my wife and I are alone, but when we are with Thai speaking family or acquaintances. All conversations are in Thai, with nary an explanation as to what's going on. Not being involved at all, I sit on a hard backless bench for hours waiting for the day to pass. My wife gets so caught up in her native Thai language, that if I make a comment (in English), it is completely ignored as though I wasn't even there.

Nearly every time we go somewhere, family or friends seem come along. Without the one-on-one with my wife, I feel like I was left out in the dark. I consider myself lucky to get a translation of signage, because it interrupts the ongoing Thai discourse. Feeling like a second-class citizen, I become a very unhappy camper.

So, this lack of participation leads to boredom, and general frustration. When at the house, there is TV, but it's all Thai. Most watched are Thai Soaps that I eventually find annoying. Is this what I want for my retirement years, waiting for the day to end? If I understood Thai, I could be more involved, and hopefully avoid depression.

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## Spin

> I make a comment (in English), it is completely ignored as though I wasn't even there.


try pretending to be stone deaf when said female wants you to buy this handbag or that pair of shoes later on.

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## Storekeeper

Hey Curious George,

      I was recently told just before I left Japan that the best mode out there to learn a foreign language is "Pimsleur" ... the person who told me this said "Rosetta Stone" and that course popular in the Thai book stores is crap compared to this "Pimsleur" method.

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## peterpan

CG, I dreaded the prospect of retirement but when I was forced into it some 6 months ago, have to say its worked out well. Found a neat little community of mainly westeners (I have done with the notion of integrating into Thai society) My days are full with teaching my children, absorbed into my hobbies. I have set my library and music system up. Found a few friends to walk with each morning. Its great !
You will find that if you do retire here you will set up with the home comforts and settle in, its not the same thing as hanging round the wifes folks and listen to them prattle on all day with small talk, the sort of conversation, which even if you did understand would have no interest for you anyway.

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## El Gibbon

CG

Peterpan brings up a key issue, in that when you live here and become part of the 'fabric' of everyday life the isolation seems to become less and less.

When we used to 'visit', the family and wife dominated all auditory communications. They were playing catch-up it seems. In your case the distance between Florida and the family probalby makes this much more an issue.

I mentioned to the Ms. that I felt like a bump on a log when we visited. She didn't realize the impact of being ignored while she caught up with the news of nieces, nephews and inlaws. Not to mention the 'farming' news.  :Surprised:  It was hard to feel too bad since she really missed her family even though we were only two hours away in Bangers.

Living here and becoming part of the family (STS) is a lot different. Now, I am often asked questionst that initiate conversation. Limited as it is. After helping lay irrigation pipe, cleaning up rubber slash and providing some home grown veggies, I am considered a member of the family.

When you visit your always facing the deadline of leaving at some point. When you live here you are just here. 

Something to consider in your decision makeing.

BTW is Thai Wife reading this thread?

E. G.

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## Storekeeper

Nice post El Gibbon ... hope it turns out that way for me.

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## Curious George

> You will find that if you do retire here you will set up with the home comforts and settle in, its not the same thing as hanging round the wifes folks and listen to them prattle on all day with small talk, the sort of conversation, which even if you did understand would have no interest for you anyway.





> CG
> 
> Peterpan brings up a key issue, in that when you live here and become part of the 'fabric' of everyday life the isolation seems to become less and less.
> 
> When we used to 'visit', the family and wife dominated all auditory communications. They were playing catch-up it seems. In your case the distance between Florida and the family probalby makes this much more an issue.


I've got to admit that these make me feel a bit better, as though you've gone through and overcome the adversities. You have made very good points about visiting/settling in Thailand. While I cannot claim any real security in my present situation, I still have trepidations about moving lock stock and barrel, with no looking back, if I cannot emotionally handle the situation.

Let's move on then, from language concerns to money issues. Admittedly, when visiting Thailand for the first time, the exchange rate was 25 Baht to 1 US Dollar. That seemed great, as I was only visiting at the time. When considering a move to Thailand, the rate went to near 50 Baht to 1 US Dollar. That seemed so much better, unless you noticed the rise in costs in Thailand - especially Western items. The latter mentioned rate is what I used to calculate the possibility of retirement in the LOS a few years ago.  :Sad: 

It needs to be understood that living on a Social Security payment is fixed. I (like many others) am counting on the exchange rate to be cooperative, and not put me into the streets. The recent exchange rate, holding around 32 Baht to 1 US Dollar, could be devastating. At the old exchange rate, I would have qualified for the Retirement Visa minimum monthly income. The latest rate makes my US Dollar income too little to meet the minimum requirement. I know about the bank deposit, but at today's rate, I would be reluctant to piss away a few thousand US Dollars.

I don't require many Western amenities, but the few that I desire cost 2 to 2 1/2 times the US price. OK, I won't buy these every day, but the occasional purchase could make a substantial impact on the monthly budget. Some items I cannot find in Thailand. That means mail order at a higher cost. So what are these luxury items? I find that these mail order - life support items - are just vitamins, but I've been taking most of them my whole adult life. I've scoured stores in Bangkok and up country, only to find them not available off the shelf as hey are in the US. I'm looking for:
a. Vitamin C with Acerola, Rutin and Hesperiden - Boosts the immune system
b. Glucosamine / Chondroitin - Helps relieve arthritic symptoms
c. Vitamin E, water soluble - Boosts cell growth/healing
d. Saw Palmetto - Reduces prostate enlargement
e. Psyllium Fiber - Reduce accumulated cholesterol and intestinal polyps
f. Omeprazole - Treats Acid Reflux Disease (GERD)

By now you all think I'm weirder than you had ever expected, but all of us have some nonconventional aspect to deal with. I take the aforementioned supplements every day, but also am not on countless drugs, that I find others my age consuming, at an extremely high cost.

P.S. The secretary in our office is in her mid-fifties, and requires a red cell boosting injection every week at $1200 US Dollars. Thank God for insurance.

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## Marmite the Dog

Both Peterpan and EG made good points.

I would prioritise moving to a small community of westerners rather than with the wife's family, at least to start with. You're a decent, easy going chap, so I'm sure you'll make friends very easily here with other similar individuals.

Have you considered coming here for a couple of years to start with, to see if you can manage? Maybe rent your house in the US (I presume you own it). It'll boost your income and enable you to settle in more easily. Just a thought...

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## stroller

> By now you all think I'm weirder than you had ever expected, but all of us have some nonconventional aspect to deal with.


Not weird at all.
Well, there are a few places in Bangkok which sell Vitamin imported supplements, but I am not sure the ones you require are available, it may be a matter of persuading them to stock them for you, or find a friendly chemist where you retire to do so. Mail-order or bringing a year's supply in are other options - it's a challenge, not an insurmountable obstacle.

Re exchange rate, have a look at Anonymous Coward's posts.  :Wink:  

Anyway, these are all practical issues which can be resolved, if you should decide to retire here. And, of course, you have a very smart Thai wife to assist you.

The key issue is whether Thailand is attractive enough for you to take the plunge.

And, as Marmite says, what is stopping you to come here for a set period while keeping options open, to try it out?
I am sure many members here would be delighted to have you join the expat community.

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## El Gibbon

CG

I 'assume' you are MARRIED (legally) to a Thai, or your second nic is really cool and you know a hell of a lot about Thai culture.

Don't take the following as legal adivise although from what I've read in the past it seems to be true.  

A marriage visa is a lot easier to get than a retirement visa, the income requirement is 40k a month vs. 60k for a retirement visa. These income/bank deposit figures only apply to the first year........  I did ask the immigration officer at Pon Nam Rong and he seemed to confirm.

Obviously, from your posts and comments in other areas you are good at and enjoy plants. There are large markets for various flowers and vegetables here including export. One that I'm seriously looking at and testing at the moment has the potential to average B50k monthly, cultivating 4 rai of one vegetable for local (Thailand) sale. While farming is a no no for work stuff it seems that if your in the sticks and are an OK type chap no one bothers you, put it in Thai Wife's name and employ a couple of day laborers. Your just a consultant. 

There are huge, no kidding, export markets for several items that are never fully exploited.  Think organically grown chillies for one, huge market in Europe.

( hate to plug another forum, but T V has an excellent forum, on farming in Thailand that covers a LOT of subjects. It is moderated by one of our own TD members and covers just about anything you can imagine.)

It seems you are proactive in taking a bunch of dietary supplements, no problem. I do know that the Chinese medicinal influence is strong here. There is one hospital, that I can't recall, in Bangers that specializes in the subject. I believe that equivalent supplements would be available in most cases. Hey, the Chinese have been taking this stuff for thousands of years and they do OK.

Seems like I'm trying to sell ice to an eskimo eh?  Well, I had some of the same misgivings when I finally pulled the plug and moved. Sink or swim was my attitude, although I did leave a bunch of stuff in storage etc. "Just in case" it didn't work...   :Surprised:  it is all STILL in storage.

I find that living in the 'sticks' is great for me, lower cost of living and the social life and fraternizing is just a half hour away.

E. G.

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## Marmite the Dog

> I 'assume' you are MARRIED (legally) to a Thai, or your second nic is really cool and you know a hell of a lot about Thai culture.


A few of us have had the pleasure of meeting both George and his missus. Both a very real.

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## El Gibbon

Glad to hear it Mammers.... 

One thing I forgot to mention re. the family chit chat.....

Now that we are close by, if Ms wants to chit chat she jumps on the bike and does the family "news".   :Smile: 

It is assumed if I'm in attendance, then I'm to be included in the conversations at some level. I don't know if she pulled the strings or it just happened naturally, but it works.

E. G.

EDIT: Went to the bank this morning and withdrew cash from by debit card ... The effective rate (including all charges) was 34.904 baht to the dollar.

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## watterinja

Would it be an option for you to have two homes to start with? One in Thailand, & the other back home - perhaps rented out.

The reason I ask is that with all the current instability in Thailand, visas are never guaranteed. Things are subject to change at short notice & there is always an element of instability.

Having two homes will always ensure that you, at least, have the peace-of-mind that if Thailand evicts you, that you can go back 'home'. When you are stuck in another country, with very little in the way of rights, this can become a major stress factor to many folks. 

Not one of the falang long-timers that I know can honestly - with hand over heart - say that they ever feel secure in Thailand. Please factor this uncertainty into your plans - it is important in the long run.

----------


## blackgang

^^, Very wise advice, And as a fairly long time resident here I can not say that what has been mentioned is not a possibility and is a grounds for worry.
I am happy here, I live away from the urban areas that are most often chosen as the place that a farang wants to live.
I can not speak Thai and no way will I ever be able to as I can not replicate the tonal sounds necessary to be understood as I have a hearing impairment due to much time in noisy engine rooms and in close proximity to gun fire, but I can understand enough to know whats going on.
I have very few farang friends and do have Thai friends that I get along with just fine.
I am not rich by a damn site but do have sufficient income and money to be comfortable, Have a good wife that has a good job and does qualify for a govt pension, so our future life is assured.
Things might be a little difficult for you at first, but you will soon learn where and what that you want can be gotten from or the easy way to order from outside and get what you want.
Most of the things that you mentioned are available here, you just need to get acquainted with where and who can get the things for you, the only things that I have to order from outside is just incidentals such as some things for my wife and kid, "Midol" for the kid as she has sever pains and side effects from menstrual cycle, and my wife likes to eat some Thai stuff that makes her breath nasty as hell so "Breath assure" from US and I have taken "Astragalus" that started to take in China for immune booster, but is unavailable here so is ordered from the US .

----------


## Butterfly

> I have done with the notion of integrating into Thai society


It seems that every farang is done with that notion. Why is that ?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> It seems that every farang is done with that notion. Why is that ?


I think it's because Thai society is largely inane.
They are more often than not a bunch of good for nothing kunts that'll shit all over you for some sort of personal gain.
The place is corrupt down to its roots, I'd rather stay apart from it.

----------


## blackgang

I think that because of different social values it is really hard to understand each others culture and what interests one does not interest others, especially different levels of social structure.
I have friends that are considered HI-SO by some here that are easier to converse with that seem to have a level of understanding that more resembles ours.
Where the standard farmer class of the working farmer is just something that I can not understand and I have really no interest in even trying, altho I do get along with them OK.
But I have spent a goodly amount of time in Asia, not necessarily in SEA, but in the area for the last 50 years and maybe it is just that I don't pay much attention or do not care to that makes it easier for me to accept.
I do know that if I weren't as happy here as anywhere else that I would surely go where I was happier tho as I do not have to be here if I didn't choose to.
Some do not have that choice and I do feel sorry for them.

----------


## stroller

> The place is corrupt down to its roots, I'd rather stay apart from it.


Sounds like you're about to pack your bags!  :Very Happy:

----------


## Anonymous Coward

I retired almost exactly two years ago and in a few day's I'll have been here for two years. I'm glad I'm here and I plan to stay.

I'm pretty much a recluse, so not speaking Thai doesn't much bother me. I wouldn't talk to anyone even if I were fluent. I do understand enough to get by: read a menu, order some food, decipher road signs, pay the bills, etc. But I'll never speak enough Thai to carry on a conversation.

When I arrived here I was living quite comfortably on 40K+ baht per month. Frankly, it's a struggle now that my income has shrunk to 35K, but we still manage to pay the bills. However, we don't go on monthly road trips anymore and I never go out for a few beers. Chang on the front porch are only 20 baht per can.

That said, I'm certainly living better here than I would on the same income back in the US.

Yeah, there are a few things you can't get here that are readily available in the US. But, I don't think that should be a big hurdle if you're considering retiring here. You can always get a friend or relative to send you those sorts of items or you can buy a big supply when you visit. I do that for items like sunscreen (horribly expensive here) and Ibuprofen.

As far as that "left out" feeling goes, you'll get used to it. I spent nearly 30 years on Saipan and endured many many hours of listening to people speak languages that I didn't understand. It's frustrating at first but I look at it as an opportunity to stay uninvolved.

Great thread with many interesting posts. Thanks for starting it.

----------


## peterpan

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> It seems that every farang is done with that notion. Why is that ?
> 
> 
> I think it's because Thai society is largely inane.
> They are more often than not a bunch of good for nothing kunts that'll shit all over you for some sort of personal gain.
> The place is corrupt down to its roots, I'd rather stay apart from it.


 That sums it up well enough, after 14 years I have worked out that having a Thai freindship is a liability, sooner rather than later there wlll come a crisis whereby he will expect you to help him out.  Women seem to be a little different but men are brought up on the basis that "they are close to God". 
Where I live I have very little contact with Thai males, suits me fine, everyone that I have ever got close to, has cost me plenty.

----------


## dirtydog

> However, we don't go on monthly road trips anymore and I never go out for a few beers.


I notice you have a few web pages on your site for bars and stuff like that, you really should think about charging a nominal fee, it all helps  :Smile:

----------


## stroller

> Where I live I have very little contact with Thai males, suits me fine, everyone that I have ever got close to, has cost me plenty.


Each to their own, I am  sometimes approached for small loans I have reluctantly given, more by relatives than friends, come to think about it.
No friendship with Thais has cost me anything, well, if they are taking advantage, they are not friends any longer, plenty of decent guys around.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
you have clearly integrated well Stroll.
Maybe you were closer to the native to begin with.
I can't be arsed with their insularism.
They genuinely think themselves to be better than us because we are not crap and Thai.

----------


## hillbilly

Retire? I wish. Maybe soon. The deal is even if hillbilly was back in the states and retired, what kind of lifestyle would that be?

I don't know about tomorrow and can't remember yesterday. But, usually things work out... :Smile:

----------


## dirtydog

> They genuinely think themselves to be better than us because we are not crap and Thai.


I have to agree with cmn, unfortuneately thailand is full of Thais that have a minimal education and believe they know everything about the world, yet probably couldn't name 2 capitols in the world let alone tell you how many days there are in a year, these people aint geniuses and it can be embarrassing to see them struggling when they try to put the world to rights as they basically have no knowlege of the outside world, you mention America to your local halfwit and his eyes light up and thinks big money, thats about as far and in depth they think.

Yeah after 16 years here I can count my Thai friends including my galfriend and son on one hand, might even have a thumb left over  :Smile:

----------


## peterpan

> Originally Posted by peterpan
> 
> Where I live I have very little contact with Thai males, suits me fine, everyone that I have ever got close to, has cost me plenty.
> 
> 
> Each to their own, I am sometimes approached for small loans I have reluctantly given, more by relatives than friends, come to think about it.
> No friendship with Thais has cost me anything, well, if they are taking advantage, they are not friends any longer, plenty of decent guys around.


I was writing more about business associates rather than "social friends". Then the only Thai social friends I have ever had were overseas educated, they seem to share similar values.

----------


## ceburat

> Addressing the Thai language:
> 
> Yes, my concerted effort was not one that I would consider self consuming. I made an effort with books, tapes and the wife prompting. The rate of learning was the same as previously experienced with formal education in German and Spanish. I can learn what a foreign word means, and I then repeat it to myself again - and again - as a memory exercise, and end up losing it within hours. If interested, there is a learning disability which renders written text-deciphering, sound-symbol connections and/or the sequencing of information very difficult.
> 
> You could consider this as being my excuse, and that I am basically lazy (my wife thinks this is the case). If you looked at my educational history, you would find that my 'touch typing' was great to 35 WPM - I could not advance any further. Much earlier in my life, I took years of piano lessons. I did well to the point of sight reading and transferring the written notes to the keys without looking at the keyboard. I stopped piano lessons. In the US Army, I was required to learn Morse Code. I again did very well up to a point where I became limited. I needed to visually relate a sound group to a letter, and could not automatically, without thought, write a letter due to a sound, or key a sequence by sight.
> 
> You will see that all of the above requires a similar mental transposition. When hearing a sound, or seeing an object, the brain needs to process it by spontaneous free association, without the need for extra mentation. Consciously analyzing the auricle or visual input results in an outcome that is difficult and slow to arrive.
> 
> Maybe I should write a thesis on the subject. It could be invaluable to the Adjarns in their pursuit to teach a second language in the LOS.  
> ...


All of us have trouble learning Thai. Don't  worry about it.  It is a very hard one to learn.  IMO you have two problems.  First you tell yourself that you can't so much, that you simply can't.  And second, and I have this problem too, it is called  "being lazy."  I would rather do anything than study.

If you don't drink and smoke, gamble, etc. there's not much else to take your money.  If you get $1000 per month SS and manage your money well you could have a real decent standard of living here.

----------


## Butterfly

> That sums it up well enough, after 14 years I have worked out that having a Thai freindship is a liability


I have a few very very hi-so friends, they are ok and being educated abroad, they see the same flaws here as we see them. Hard workers, I mean really work hard, but very successful. That said, a bit superficial when it comes to "social" relationships, never sure what to expect. It's not different from the hi-so in Europe or in the US if you ask me. Same selfish "attitude" toward others.




> I can't be arsed with their insularism.
> They genuinely think themselves to be better than us because we are not crap and Thai.


I think the lack of communications between the two worlds bring us to think that way, ignoring their way or being alienated by their presence. They might say the same about us, living in our "farang world" on their land, if you get my drift.




> Then the only Thai social friends I have ever had were overseas educated, they seem to share similar values.


They seem to get a clue. This is the same as farangs living here for too long who become "Thais". I know a few here who have become as "un-reliable" and "un-focus" as the Thais themselves, giving in to the same superficiality of life. I, myself, become a victim of such little superficiality and catch myself becoming more and more "un-focus" and "lazy". Not good.

----------


## stroller

> Not good.


Why not?  :Smile:

----------


## Boon Mee

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> Not good.
> 
> 
> Why not?


Perhaps Butterfly believes in the Puritan Work Ethic? :Wink:

----------


## Curious George

> Would it be an option for you to have two homes to start with? One in Thailand, & the other back home - perhaps rented out.
> 
> The reason I ask is that with all the current instability in Thailand, visas are never guaranteed. Things are subject to change at short notice & there is always an element of instability.
> 
> Having two homes will always ensure that you, at least, have the peace-of-mind that if Thailand evicts you, that you can go back 'home'. When you are stuck in another country, with very little in the way of rights, this can become a major stress factor to many folks. 
> 
> Not one of the falang long-timers that I know can honestly - with hand over heart - say that they ever feel secure in Thailand. Please factor this uncertainty into your plans - it is important in the long run.


I've considered this, but can't financially afford to do it. Renting my US home would require placing it with a rental management group. I'm not too keen on that idea, especially being on the other side of the planet. I've seen rental homes of out-of-town owners get trashed in just a few months time, basically rendering them worthless. This is why I say that moving to Thailand would be a one-way trip, with no safety net to go back to. That fact does bother me!



> If you don't drink and smoke, gamble, etc. there's not much else to take your money. If you get $1000 per month SS and manage your money well you could have a real decent standard of living here.


I don't smoke (anymore), or gamble, but does consuming 4 or 5 Chang khuaat yai per day constitute drinking?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## dirtydog

> but does consuming 4 or 5 Chang khuaat yai per day constitute drinking?


Thats the slippery slope downhill, just ask that alchy cmn, it started off all innocent and a few beers and now look at the state of him, masturbating in public and posting pics of it and stuff like that, it aint good believe me  :Smile:

----------


## Curious George

> Thats the slippery slope downhill, just ask that alchy cmn, it started off all innocent and a few beers and now look at the state of him, masturbating in public and posting pics of it and stuff like that, it aint good believe me


At least he's keeping occupied, and probably isn't bored.

----------


## RDN

> ^ the UK govt pension will disappear up its own arshole never to be seen again with the next 5 years, It totally unviable


Total rubbish.

Meanwhile, back to the thread...




> ...All conversations are in Thai, with nary an explanation as to what's going on....
> 
> 
> ...Nearly every time we go somewhere, family or friends seem come along. Without the one-on-one with my wife, I feel like I was left out in the dark....


I totally understand and have suffered the same, but only for a few occurrences. I have explained - quite forcefully - that I will not put up with being treated like that. So either she goes without me with her friends and relatives, or she translates and includes me in. Nothing else is acceptable. 

I was once with an English guy who I'd just met, and we decided to talk as fast as we could just so the respective girlfriends couldn't understand what we were saying. Jesus H Christ, did they get pissed off!  :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:  "What are you saying? What are you talking about?"  :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:    Som nam naa!

----------


## stroller

> but does consuming 4 or 5 Chang khuaat yai per day constitute drinking?


Definitely yes, and beer is comparatively expensive here.

----------


## Curious George

I hear the gong for round three - Let's talk Health Care
First let me tie it into the cost of living in Thailand. Then, let's examine the overall quality. 
1
At a retirement age (65+) in the US, I need to enroll with Medicare unless I'm flush enough to pay my own way. Medicare 'A' pays the first 60 day of the hospital after a $992 deductible. Medicare 'B' pays 80% of the doctor's/nurse's fee after a $131.00 deductible, but has a premium of $93.50 per month. This does not cover medication, so a supplemental insurance is almost mandatory to cover extras when on a fixed income. 
So far this sounds very expensive, but let's put my situation into the spotlight as an example. I have a prosthetic knee, which at best is 1/3 through its useful life. According to statistics, my knee requires replacement - again - in ten or fewer years. The total cost in the US is between $60k and 80k. With my US insurance coverage (Medicare and supplemental), I probably will need to pay about $4k after deductibles. Staying in the US, I can probably find the capital for this expense. 
I move to Thailand! Some insurance companies do not write a policy if over 65, but most have a maximum of age 60. Certainly, if the proper hospital is chosen, their quality of procedures will match anything offered in the US. Cost will be between $12k and $15k for a knee replacement. But, what needs to be considered, is that I will be totally responsible for that amount. That equates to 3/4 of my fixed Social Security income for a year. That amount is pretty difficult to save, even though general costs of living in Thailand may sound lucrative. I would not be able to pay an extreme medical cost. 
2
This story is about a very good friend, now deceased. He died in Thailand due to a poor medical care network, and that didn't have to occur. 
On a Thursday afternoon nearly six years ago, on the way to Cha Am for a weekend holiday, he experienced extreme chest pains. He turned his car around and headed back to Bangkok. He checked himself into a hospital near where he lived, which happens to specialize in the Eyes, Ears, Nose and Throat. I believe he checked in there, because he knew one of the resident doctors, and I'm sure during a heart attack, you don't start shopping around. Anyway, only his girlfriend knew that he had checked in, and his Thai employees didn't find out until Sunday afternoon. Once seeing the situation, his employees immediately got him transferred to a hospital with cardiac facilities, but it was too late. A bypass operation, a day or two earlier, would have saved his life. 
What this means to me is that the general quality of health care is poor. Why? Because there should be a network, structured such that if one facility is not prepared to deal with a patient's condition, another would automatically be contacted that could cope with the condition, in an attempt to do anything possible to save a life. I supposed that's 'Western' thinking, but I believe it is reasonable for a civilized nation. Now, we're not talking about being out in the sticks, but right in Bangkok. I truly believe the doctor and hospital staff did not want to lose face by admitting they could not properly care for my friend.  :Mad:

----------


## El Gibbon

#1  I don't believe a knee replacement will cost you that much here. I believe that Bangkok Hospitals group has a published price list for replacement surgery and the cost as I recall was $5K for a hip replacement.

Now for an actual case, a friend in Bangkok, actually Rangsit, has just completed two total hip replacements. After the first he was playing golf in 5 months. He is just now in mid recovery from the second and plans on playing again in June.

He is 76 yrs old and in 'reasonable' health although overweight. He is on a very small fixed income and had the surgeries done at a local hospital in the area. Total cost was less than B100,000 per hip. He is more than satisfied and has had zero problems. 

#2 In most areas there is at least one "expat" quality hospital. Bangkok Hosp for example has several around the country. A friend was in a rather serious hit and run accident while riding a motocy. He refused to let the meat wagon folks transport him without me being there first... ????? Guy had a ruptured spleen but wouldn't let them move him until a "friend" was there.

In discussion with the attending physician at Bangkok Hospital while my buddy was undergoing tests, his comment was: "If your an expat or tourist you should always carry a card IN THAI that specifies the hospital or medical facility that you wish to be treated at. It may not always be possible but you should still carry one."

Even here in the "fruit belt" sticks outside Chantaburi I'm no more than 15 minutes from two quality medical facilities, OK maybe 20 mins in heavy traffic. One is Bangkok and I can't even begin to spell the second one. AND this is NOT a tourist or farang popular area.

BTW a visit to your local SS office will enable you to know within pennies what your monthly income will be, and what day of the month the check will be in your bank. Mine for example is deposited on the third Wednesday of the month, goes by your # or location I guess.

Next issue?????   :Wink: 

rgds
E. G.

----------


## Thetyim

> does consuming 4 or 5 Chang khuaat yai per day constitute drinking?


Now that answer the question about your language problem.
After 5 changs I am totally incoherent

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> After 5 changs I am totally incoherent


Strangely, I become fluent.

BTW, George, you're not doing a very good job of dissuading everyone that you should stay in the US. More effort man!

----------


## KID

> Originally Posted by Thetyim
> 
> After 5 changs I am totally incoherent
> 
> 
> Strangely, I become fluent.
> 
> BTW, George, you're not doing a very good job of dissuading everyone that you should stay in the US. More effort man!


 
Why would any one want to leave????? :Very Happy:  After driving a semi over the road for the past 6 months, I am reminded just what a versatile and beautiful country this is !!!

mountains, deserts, beaches,prairies,forests,snow, tropical climates

----------


## blackgang

I stopped paying for medicare a couple 3 years ago, no good here and as med treatment is so cheap anyway, but thru my wife ins I am covered anyway.
But as has been said, med treatment and procedures are not for shit here, but what the hell aint gonna live forever anyway.
And my SSA check is deposited in my bank on the 3 of the month and is registered by the 4th here as we are so far ahead on time.

----------


## Curious George

> Originally Posted by Curious George
> 
> does consuming 4 or 5 Chang khuaat yai per day constitute drinking?
> 
> 
> Now that answer the question about your language problem.
> After 5 changs I am totally incoherent


Just like marmers, i begin to speak in tongues. By the way, I do know the most important Thai words!  :Smile: 

The first is finding myself a beer, and the second is finding the hawng nahm.

----------


## Curious George

> #1 I don't believe a knee replacement will cost you that much here. I believe that Bangkok Hospitals group has a published price list for replacement surgery and the cost as I recall was $5K for a hip replacement.


You're probably right, since I don't know first-hand. My sister-in-law is a nurse, and asked about the cost at her hospital without mentioning the 'Farang' word, and that's what she said. I still claim finding $5k working in the US will be far easier to come by than taking $5k out of the budget for living in Thailand. But, if you're correct, it is not as drastic as I thought.

P.S. I just found a price on-line from the Vejthani Hospital. Their estimate is $11.5k. I guess a lot depends upon the exact procedure required.

----------


## Curious George

Maybe before bringing up issues that I find annoying in Thailand, I should talk about moving concerns. There are things I would like to bring to Thailand, but think there may be some major problems.

I would really like to bring my tools. I find most tools in Thailand are crap. This is probably the least important for me, but I still would like to do so. I don't know what the 'household' limit would be for bringing in such items. My selection of tools resembles a small hardware store, so I would expect some difficulty.

I have several computers that are in continual use, each having a different purpose. I know I'm allowed one computer per person, which means only two. I would like to bring seven, but could live with five. This is a real issue, since my retirement would revolve around computing. This was briefly discussed earlier on TD, but bringing the hard drives only, and putting in new Thai computers just is not a viable solution.

Now for the most troubling of all. Thai Wife and I breed African Grey parrots. I don't have to bring the breeders into Thailand, because that would be nearly impossible. That still leaves us with four long-term pet parrots, whom I will not leave behind. These parrots have the intelligence of 2-5 year old humans, and also live as long. We cannot give these away in all good conscience, since they are part of our family. When bringing animals into Thailand, the authorities want to make sure you don't plan to breed them, possibly taking away Thai income. More than one animal will cause suspicion.

Secondly, I've heard too many horror stories of animals being brought into the Country, and left to die, due to lack of concern by both Customs and the Department of Livestock Development. They require animals to be quarantined, while disease testing is done, with a possibility of being held for weeks. In all the forums I've participated in the past, I've never found anyone that has had experience bringing in multiple animals, especially birds.

----------


## El Gibbon

Published prices on the 'net have increased substantially since they decided that medical tourism was a cash cow.

Your SiL's pricing is most likely in line with the 'norm' at most hospitals that are not targeting tourism.

E. G.

EDIIT: The reason for the high costs for tourism medical care is that the 'service' factor is equivalent to a 5 star hotel in downtown Bangkok. At least its an excuse they used to raise their prices.

----------


## El Gibbon

Hmmmmmm
I see an income stream already. :Smile:   Breeding parrots.

OK, on the tools issue you need to contact a freight forwarder and have them check out the details for importing used tools for personal use. Probably affidavits etc. involved. Came here with a couple of suitcases myself... no problem. lol  Anyone that brings a household into this country without using a professional freight forwarder to clear the paperwork is asking for lots of grief.

I think but an not sure that animals can be quaranteened prior to arrival, with the proper health certificates etc. you may be able to bypass the holding period. 

Maybe the wife can repatriate to Thailand and bring 'her' business with her???? If the wife has a commercial bird raising business who knows??????

Repatriation was all the rage a couple of years ago, especially with Thais that had unusual or special skills. Check with your local Thai consulate. If I recall correctly there was even an bounty paid for certain skills or cash generating folks.

As for the computers there is nothing that can't be had here and its getting cheaper all the time. Now, if your running specific programs that are designed to your specific machines, bring the mother boards along with the drives as spare parts. Solves the problems of bulk, and damage to the tedious bits. I'm sure FF or some of the other bit bashers on the board can give you good advice on how to do it specifically.

Is the list getting shorter yet?????    :saythat: 

E. G.

----------


## El Gibbon

Just refilled The Holy Grail (coffee cup), while doing so, something dawned on me that I believe is very germane to your dilemma.

  Youve an asset, that I think, you are not using to the fullest. Youve looked at this from Curious Georges point of view. Moving to Thailand for retirement, (Just as thousands of expats have done. The idea of cheap living and lifestyle will compliment your waning years.), Thai Immigration is likely to look at it the same way. 

  However, Thai Wife is in fact is returning HOME after withstanding the difficulties of living in a foreign country being a dutiful wife. Now that HER husband has finished work THEY are returning to HER homeland where SHE is comfortable and near HER family. With all of the cultural considerations its time SHE returned to HER Buddhist roots and family.

  SHE is bringing her husband and his belongings back to live in Thailand and integrate him into HER society.



  Maybe over done, but you get the gist of it. 

  There is (you select the number) ways to skin the cat. Think of this as being determinant on HER moving back and see if it makes things easier. With Thai Wife the major focus of the move it most likely will make things easier, especially all the paperwork. Thai Wife takes the lead with the above stated goals.

  Just a thought. A slightly different perspective to see things by.


  E. G,

----------


## watterinja

> Published prices on the 'net have increased substantially since they decided that medical tourism was a cash cow.
> 
> Your SiL's pricing is most likely in line with the 'norm' at most hospitals that are not targeting tourism.
> 
> E. G.
> 
> EDIIT: The reason for the high costs for tourism medical care is that the 'service' factor is equivalent to a 5 star hotel in downtown Bangkok. At least its an excuse they used to raise their prices.


Hotel aside, the competence & training of the Thai medical fraternity will not be up to the accepted US standard. This factor should not be overlooked.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> Hotel aside, the competence & training of the Thai medical fraternity will not be up to the accepted US standard. This factor should not be overlooked.


I disagree. The 'snip & tuck' surgeons are the best in the world here.  :Smile:

----------


## watterinja

> Originally Posted by watterinja
> 
> Hotel aside, the competence & training of the Thai medical fraternity will not be up to the accepted US standard. This factor should not be overlooked.
> 
> 
> I disagree. The _'snip & tuck' surgeons_ are the best in the world here.


Are these the sex-alteration mob?  :Confused:

----------


## El Gibbon

> [
> 
> Hotel aside, the competence & training of the Thai medical fraternity will not be up to the accepted US standard. This factor should not be overlooked.


Wattles, that is total bull puky.... Have you ever been admitted to a Thai hospital?  I have and found the service and staff to be every much as professional as any hospital in the US. BTW I have very extensive personal experience in US hospitals including UCLA Med. Center, Mayo Clinic and Boston General and Brigham and Women's Hosptal in Boston.

That comment shows that you know nothing re. staff qualification in private hospitals in Thailand. Some, not all of the Gov't hospitals I would agree but not the private ones at all. Most of the doctors and staff in the privates are trained either in Britian, Australia, Canada or the US. They are as supremely qualified as their foreign counterparts. 

E. G.

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## Thetyim

^ EG.  Will you accept that there are good and bad hospitals ?

We have two members here who have had terrible experiences with thai hospitals.  One has lost his wife due to a  Bangkok hospital and one has suffered damage at a Chaingmai hospital.

----------


## El Gibbon

Of course, I lost my wife at UCLA and it was questionable as to why at the time. All hospitals have incompetent staff and sometimes make real mistakes. That is NOT to say however, that the standard of training is any worse or better re. Thai and other international hospitals.

My point was the poster's blanket statement that Thai medical care was not up to US standards. I would be willing to bet that the rate of mistakes and errors are similar to those of western hospitals with the comparable patient load. 

I would also venture that we have some members, myseld included, that have recieved exemplary care and service in a Thai hospital.

Having been directly involved with the Tsunami and its resultant chaos I can state categorically that the hospitals in Phuket acted and reacted as well as any staff possibly could have under the most extreme of circumstances. The Triage aspects, of which I have a minimal amount of training due to military service, were text book.

Rgds


E. G.

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## Curious George

> However, Thai Wife is in fact is returning HOME after withstanding the difficulties of living in a foreign country being a dutiful wife. Now that HER husband has finished work THEY are returning to HER homeland where SHE is comfortable and near HER family. With all of the cultural considerations its time SHE returned to HER Buddhist roots and family.


Gosh, you must have had a long conversation with Thai Wife. It's almost like there's an echo here. She feels that I'm being over-the-top selfish about the whole thing.  :Sad:

----------


## El Gibbon

Nope, never communicated with her other than 'maybe' a reply on her thread re. spirit houses. 

But, it is why I querried early in the thread if she was reading this   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): .

Each of you probably have a different perspective on the future. Neither is totally right or wrong, just different worries and comfort levels.  :Cool: 

E. G.

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## shazbut

> Originally Posted by watterinja
> 
> 
> [
> 
> Hotel aside, the competence & training of the Thai medical fraternity will not be up to the accepted US standard. This factor should not be overlooked.
> 
> 
> Wattles, that is total bull puky.... Have you ever been admitted to a Thai hospital? I have and found the service and staff to be every much as professional as any hospital in the US. BTW I have very extensive personal experience in US hospitals including UCLA Med. Center, Mayo Clinic and Boston General and Brigham and Women's Hosptal in Boston.
> ...


Dunno what the hospitals in the USA are like,but the care in the Hospitals in NZ leave Thailand for dead (No pun intended.. :Smile:  ) I've had many incorrect diagnosis from thai quacks,yet none from the ones here....

The Thai staff may well be professional,but I feel that they lack the competence that I have experienced.Given a choice between Thailand and NZ,even the public system wins hands down.....No contest IMO.

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## Marmite the Dog

> I've had many incorrect diagnosis from thai quacks,yet none from the ones here....


I'd tend to agree that Thai doctors can be pretty hopeless at diagnosing stuff, but are as good as anyone else once the cause is finally found. I try to self diagnose as much as possible. I guess it's because Thais don't do logical thought.

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## Curious George

Since I was encouraged to start this thread, I will continue. Some of the practical matters have already been discussed, but now I'll begin to describe things about Thailand that annoy or aggravate me.

Noise pollution:

Many houses are built in such a way that walls are shared. Neighbors on the opposing side generate many loud irritating sounds, mostly because of either a bathroom or kitchen. You can hear hacking, snorting, pots rattling, water splashing, babies crying, etc. Then it's fun to see who can turn the volume up the loudest on the TV, to drown out that of the neighbor. The walls not being solid, and full of air vents, allow sound to travel as if in the same room. Then there's the yelling to neighbors across the road. Don't bother to walk over and talk, just yell so everybody in town can hear.

Those soi dogs are always barking or howling at something. Then there are the territorial street fights with the yelping. The worst is in the middle of the night when particular motor vehicles pass that really get the dogs going. The roosters are not so bad, but crowing well before sunup puzzles me.

I hate the pickups coming by all hours of the day with their PA systems blaring. You can hear these vendors, or local politicians, blocks away. When they eventually pass by you, the sound is deafening. Now let's not forget about the town's PA system. It gets turned on before daylight with loud clicks, buzzes, and that awful AC hum. The operators tend to say a few words, which no one can understand due to the overmodulated distortion, and then play some crappy music. I have my own alarm clock, thank you, and would use it if I wanted to rise and shine before 5 AM each morning. The town elders like to entertain the town with more PA music midday. I thought the PA system was in place only for emergencies and important announcements. The evening isn't spared either with group aerobic exercising in the streets. I don't object to the idea, but out comes the megawatt stereo that can be turned up all the way. You needn't make many voluntary exercise movements, for the sound waves do it for you. I just love the hour of disco and exercise musical arrangements.  :Mad:  

Now I know you will all tell me that it all has to do with location. I will admit you can escape some of this noise by not living in the middle of it. I once stayed for a week in a nice Moo Baan outside of Cha Am. It was rather peaceful there without much of the noise described above, but that was only one week. For all the times I've come to Thailand, the noises apply to most of my visits. Even if you find a rather peaceful place to live, you can't completely get away from the pollution.

Walk into a shopping mall, or Tescos, or .... Some shop, or department will be blasting VERY loud music. Now, if it wasn't so loud as to hurt my ears, I wouldn't have a complaint. I once parked in the lot in front of HomePro. They had a stereo out front blasting music loud enough to be heard on the passing highway. When I managed to get into the store behind the glass, and stereo, my ears were ringing. I can't believe that the Thais aren't all deaf by now.

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## dirtydog

The noise levels here are pretty bad, some times of an evening lorries go past so loudly that I cant even use my skype, and the speakers are only about a meter away if that, I never hear my neighbours but they all have set up their places differantly, no idea which floors they sleep on and most just cook out in the back garden, well at least I think they do.

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## RDN

> ...Now I know you will all tell me that it all has to do with location...Walk into a shopping mall, or Tescos, or...


Excellent points CG. And "location" is one of the the answers. The other is to build your house in the middle of a rai of land with an 8 foot wall all round it. You would've thought that in a country where having the windows open is the norm, people would take more care about noise and air pollution. I wonder what it's like inside a Thai public library? 

My local Big C store has a food hall that is built like an echo chamber - the concept of using noise deadening materials or design just hasn't reached here. And Tescos' food hall has an amusement arcade at one end. Real classy place - kids screaming, machines blaring, just the place to go for a relaxing snack.

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## Spin

im starting to see that CG is not suited to Thailand, which brings the question why he married a Thai lady?

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## Curious George

> im starting to see that CG is not suited to Thailand, which brings the question why he married a Thai lady?


I fell in love :star:  

I never considered moving to Thailand at the time!

That was a later consideration to allow me to retire.  :Thinkerg:

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## Curious George

> ... no idea which floors they sleep on and most just cook out in the back garden, well at least I think they do....


You have just justified having a two story home. When I mentioned the cooking pots banging, I was talking about an outside kitchen, but next to our bedrom wall. A two story home with bedrooms upstairs may have its advantages.

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## El Gibbon

CG
Well, you've hit on the single most aggravating thing I find about living in Thailand. Phuket wasn't too bad, Din Daeng was brutally noisy.

After a month or so the rumble of trucks and buses along with noisy tuk tuks kinda got lost in the background. Then I think because I was more irritable with walking up 5 flights and the kids in the neighborhood screaming the traffic began to get to me and kinda sent me over the top.

Location is the ONLY answer. Where I currently live the village speakers come on at 6AM for 20 - 30 minutes of news and announcements. If I'm sitting out on the front porch I can just hear them, not loud enough to wake me up and not loud enough the Ms can understand what they are saying. Not bad actually. I am also just within earshot of the local wat and can tell when someone dies as they play classical Thai music while the mourning is going on. It is actually quite pleasant and can only be heard if we are outside or all the windows and doors are open.

There are a lot of dogs around here but there is seldom any squabbles, I guess they have all learned the territorial rights of one another. You very seldom here country dogs barking unless there is a reason. Rubber tappers, and orchard workers are always out and about at all times of the day and night and seldom cause dogs to bark. I guess they learn who is normally in the area. Let a real stranger come into the area at night though and "Fat Dog" across the soi barks but not loud enough to wake me up.

While the noise is aggravating, I find the plusses to outweigh that by a wide margin. Can't have it all, even in Paradise.  :dev+ang: 

If you going to live here full time it pays to search out the correct location, especially if your not tied to a work situation.

E. G.

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## NickA

^It is possible that living in the right place you will be able to eliminate all of these noise problems except for one - the dogs. Other than that I have no noise problems....dead end soi, so no cars...nice quiet neighbours (apart from us with two kids)....and you can choose to shop at quiet shops...the only other noise is the rather pleasant call to prayer from the local mosque although that is only faint....

Unfortunately the dogs are everywhere, it only takes one neighbour to pack a few in and they'll make plenty of noise. Not too bad round here, but once or twice a day they'll go off on one.

Maybe I'll invite Stroller round for tea :Wink:

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## blackgang

^^EG,  How very right you are, 
When I came here to live, I like most didn't think so much about living in a village but thought that a larger town would be more to my liking as the things I wanted to do and to eat would be more readily available, so I rented a very nice house in a gated, security guarded compound neighborhood, was nice, no congestion, and not far to downtown CM. But did have the urban smog/pollution problem and was a congestion fighting trip into downtown but the area of my house was quiet and the Wat was far enough that it could only be heard if the wind was right and you were outside.

I met my wife and she wanted to live in her own home in her area and continue to work at her present school, so what the hell, and I moved my stuff 400 KM to her village.
What a change, we were awakened each morning at 0500 to truck loads of loud speakers and cheap PA systems playing electronic noises and music at Partys to send a kid off to the Wat to play at being a monk for a few weeks or a month, Very loud music at a funeral, Very loud music at a wedding, Very loud music from a party that a farang threw to celebrate his return to or departure from the village so as to make him, in his own mind, a more important individual and make him more important to the village ner do wells and drunks. These occasions were always held in the public streets and would plug traffic up on the streets so you would have to figure out alternate ways of leaving or getting to or from your house. and always started at 0500 and went to midnight or later, and made it impossible to sleep.
The street in front of our house is filled with Thai farm trucks with single cylinder diesel engines firing thru a 6 cm. tube for better resonating quality that will almost break windows in a 100 meter area, and motor cycles with faulty exhausts running almost continuously from 0500 til late in the evenings.

I have never lived in or seen an area where loud and nerve racking noise was so much a necessary part of life or where the rights and wishes and personal preferences of others was so blatantly disregarded as is here, seems to be that one must put up with the uncivilized behavior of others with no consideration to anyone else but just each lives and does as they want.

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## Curious George

> CG
> Well, you've hit on the single most aggravating thing I find about living in Thailand. Phuket wasn't too bad, Din Daeng was brutally noisy.
> 
> After a month or so the rumble of trucks and buses along with noisy tuk tuks kinda got lost in the background. Then I think because I was more irritable with walking up 5 flights and the kids in the neighborhood screaming the traffic began to get to me and kinda sent me over the top....
> 
> While the noise is aggravating, I find the plusses to outweigh that by a wide margin. Can't have it all, even in Paradise. 
> 
> If you going to live here full time it pays to search out the correct location, especially if your not tied to a work situation.
> 
> E. G.


I totally agree that every part of the experience sums up to the overall outlook upon a situation. When I say that I will not retire to 
the LOS, it is not just a single contributing factor. As this thread evolves, it should be obvious that it is a complex mixture of events and experiences that brought me to this point. While some may look upon this as an irrational delusion of reality, I feel that the aspects in question have been scrutinized to a point of conclusion.

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## Curious George

> I have never lived in or seen an area where loud and nerve racking noise was so much a necessary part of life or where the rights and wishes and personal preferences of others was so blatantly disregarded as is here, seems to be that one must put up with the uncivilized behavior of others with no consideration to anyone else but just each lives and does as they want.


I grew up on a four lane highway going into Chicago, Illinois, US. Every night the 'cattle' trucks transported hogs squealing, and cows mooing, keeping all awake during the night. Once I lived elseware, without that kind of sleep depravation, I have become very sensitive to that kind of self abuse.

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## blackgang

I do know that living along a busy hyway can be a bitch, But in the village here it is just an everyday thing.
What with the speakers mounted on an old Thai Farm truck and a cheap PA system and making a few baht with it and everyone that wants to have a party, closing off of town streets by having your party in the street instead of down at the Wat grounds, insisting that everyone within hearing have to listen to your bullshit is just a bit much to bear sometimes.
The main thing wrong with this place is that everyone is raised with the fact that there is no word for consideration for your fellow man in the Thai language, with that and no meaning for LOGIC just means that they will continue to be a 3rd world country with no hopes of anything better.

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## Curious George

In a different thread, William wrote:



> ^mate, the major problem with driving in Thailand is trying to get into the mindset of Thai drivers, e.g. "what the fuck is that idiot trying to do?" That'll take time to adapt to.


That could be the number one issue, but it's far from the only problem with driving in Thailand. I usually love to drive, and have done so in many countries. In fact when much younger, I drove in sports car rallies for several years. I've done some driving in Thailand before, but during my last visit, I drove a lot, and it was no fun for me at all.

I really wanted to rent a car, but my lovely sister-in-law insisted we use her pick-up. I enjoy driving a manual shift, but had hoped Thai Wife would help with the driving if I rented an automatic model. So, here starts the trouble. I don't want the responsibility of driving my sister-in-law's precious truck, being her only major possession. I have to carry Thai Wife's family several thousand kilometers over a couple weeks time, without any respite. That meant several 8-9 hour days of driving an underpowered (Mitsubishi Strata Diesel) non-familiar vehicle with right-hand drive (I drive on the other side, being from the US), on unfamiliar roads, surrounded by Thai drivers.

The roads in Thailand are not well maintained. You can cruise smoothly at high speed for a kilometer or two, and then suddenly encounter parts of the road missing, without warning. These are not, what I would term 'pot holes', but actually pieces of the road not in existence. You need to bring the vehicle to a screeching halt to prevent major damage, or a possible catastrophic accident. Leaving Khorat on Route 2, I got pulled over by the 'boys in brown'. There was no traffic around me, so I stayed in the fast lane to avoid a few kilometers of awful pavement in the slow lane. The officer explained that the road condition makes no difference, but I need to travel in the slow lane, except to pass. All I was doing was what I saw other Thai drivers do, and didn't want to beat the truck up. Thai Wife came to the rescue and reduced the payoff from 500, to 200 Baht.

Passing slow traffic on two lane roads is another challenge. You can bet that if there is a grade of any sort, there will be a lorry travelling around 15-20 KPH. When attempting to pass, I swear they purposely drift across the midline to force you onto the shoulder (if there is one). Next, I'm in an underpowered vehicle, which means I see the way is clear, pull out to pass and the try to accelerate. The truck doesn't go anywhere, even though I've got my foot to the floor. Here come cars from the opposite direction, that were not originally in view at the beginning, and I nearly wet myself. What do the Thais do when they pass? They just go around the slow vehicle when they care to, and flash their lights hoping for the best. I again wet myself looking for a shoulder, or somewhere to escape what appears to be the inevitable.

I just read someone on another thread saying how lovely Thailand was, while driving through it. I would have liked to see some of the scenery as I have in other countries. Being pressed to get from point A to point B, without seeing caves, waterfalls, or whatever else was along the way, made the driving very stressful. All I could do was watch for chunks of road missing and other cars headed toward me in my lane. We at least stopped for petrol, a pee and to eat. I couldn't stop to see advertised sights, but stopping for snacks is always allowed.  :Mad:

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## El Gibbon

C. G.
LMAO while reading this one...  :dev+ang: 

"...I have to carry Thai Wife's family several thousand kilometers over a couple weeks time, without any respite. That meant several 8-9 hour days..."  Prolly won't happen much if your living here, again the terminal idea of a "visit" is hard at work. 

Driving here is similar to the Dakar race. Gotta be on your toes at all times. One of the reasons I won't drive for much more than an hour without a break of some type.

My first real experience taught me never to assume anything while on a Thai highway. There is a new four lane highway between Phang Nha and Surithani. As were were driving to Banger and I didn't know that area at all I took the first shift. No problem getting off Phuket and into Phang Nha. Found the new highway, no signage at all indicating where the entrance was, and headed for Surithani. 'Bout 15 klicks along we are in the middle of a forrest of rubber trees on the northbound lanes. The southbound lanes are not visible at this point.

As I round a nice easy corner I meet a pickup truck full of folks in my lane going southbound. Shit myself basically, my buddy who had driven here for years was almost in tears laughing at me. Seems that the southbound lane is about a klick away and this dude's house is in the median right next to the northbound lane. So, hey, its close and easier so no problem. I don't believe they understand the concept of "limited access" highway.  lolol

"..The officer explained that the road condition makes no difference, but I need to travel in the slow lane, except to pass. All I was doing was what I saw other Thai drivers do,.... a favorite ploy when the 'boys' need tea money. You see the for hire vans in the fast lane all the time, conserving their shocks. Never seen one of them stopped. Happens a lot if you don't have smoked windows and the 'boys' can tell its a farang driving.  :Smile: 

When I'm driving, and I want to stop, I do. Simple as that, the Asian thing of get-there-first holds no sway with me. I get odd looks sometimes but am forcefull, even as a passenger. I explain that whatever I want to see may be old hat or boring to the Thais I'm with but its all new to me. 

I live relatively close to two of the worst 'killer' highways in Thailand I believe. The road to Cambodia, hilly, heavily traveled by lorries and pick-ups and high speed. Two decently wide lanes that are made into 3 at someone's whim while at cruising speed. The other is the shortest route to Trat from C-Town, again heavily traveled by commercial vehicles and trucks of all sorts. Villages pop up as cresting a hill etc. again two lanes get converted to three anywhere at anytime.  (BTW DD did you and your little red wonder car try and run me off the road to Trat three days ago in Angkrilli? Some bastard thought I should drive my bike in a rubber orchard. Fooled him though, saw him coming and did the necessary... Stop... )

Driving here is an experience for sure. One of the reasons I take the bus to Bangers when I go. Yep, an hour + longer, but no stress and I can read or sleep or whatever. I also don't need to find a parking spot!.

E. G.

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## YellowTrip

> Driving here is an experience for sure. One of the reasons I take the bus to Bangers when I go. Yep, an hour + longer, but no stress and I can read or sleep or whatever. I also don't need to find a parking spot!.
> 
> E. G.


I have a nearly new car ( 2006) and I only drive here when totally nessary.

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## Anonymous Coward

I've always hated driving, but find that I actually enjoy country road driving in Thailand. Over the past two years we've made numerous road trips and, with a few exceptions here and there, the experience has been enormously pleasurable. (Remember, however, that for 26 years I lived on an island that was only 14 miles long, so I didn't get many road trips in.) 

But, I really, really hate driving in the city; even in little old Korat. Now that Ms. AC is a more accomplished driver I'm letter her do the work more and more often. (I still have to park more often than not.) And, like EG, I always take the bus when going to Bangkok.

All that said, our two year old car has only 25,000 kilometers on it.

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## mad_dog

Exuse my ignorance. How much do American pensioners get from the goverment per month?

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## Anonymous Coward

> Exuse my ignorance. How much do American pensioners get from the goverment per month?


It depends on your length of service, salary at the end of your career and the retirement plan you're in.

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## blackgang

Yes, it does count at end of service when you retire, you have to have so many credits for years of paying in max. I think it is 40 credits and then you can receive the max payments per month.
I had max credits but I am not sure of the number required, you can work after the max are paid in but you will receive no more per month after you reach max. credits and no more contributions are needed but you can not draw it til you are of retirement age, at 62 you get about $1200 a month and at 65 you get about $1600, those are not exact but give you an idea.
I retired at 57 yeras of age on union pensions and SSA at 62, but on both you recieve more the later you sign up for them.
But with death inevitable and you never know when it will be, they figure that by waiting til the last thing that you lose money in the long run.

And so I will recieve my money from SSA for more years and that way SUCKASAK will be paying my welfare payments for a much longer time, sure like to figure a way for him to have to pay my union pensions too.. 

BWAHAHAhahahaha :Very Happy:

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## Anonymous Coward

Blackgang and I are talking different stories. He's talking about Social Security, which is the contributory social insurance plan. I'm talking about the annuity for retired US Federal employees.

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## El Gibbon

^ add to that the military retirement schedule and you can really get a mish mash of entitlements. Although I believe that Federal Employees and Military retirement offset somewhat depending on how long your in the system.

SSA and Military are aggragated in full since as a military person you also pay into the SSA system.

Clear as mud eh?  And these are just the Federal programs. My dad was 'vested' (had enough employment time) in three separate retirement plans plus his SSA when he quit at 65.

E. G.

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## mad_dog

I'm asking about the basic "state" pension. No private pension no union or federation pensions. What does the average American get from the state?

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## friscofrankie

> I'm asking about the basic "state" pension.


That is "Social Security" mentioned above.  it is a compulsory retirement plan and contributions are taken from your salary along with taxes and other compulsory insurance plans.

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## Anonymous Coward

> I'm asking about the basic "state" pension. No private pension no union or federation pensions. What does the average American get from the state?


The US "pension" system is pretty fragmented. There is no state pension as such: 

*Social Security* is a compulsory contributory social insurance scheme. The amount you get depends on how long you worked and how much you made. The formula for calculating the benefit amount is complicated but is based on an individual Average Indexed Monthly Earnings. One's earnings are indexed for inflation, the average monthly earnings are calculated and the benefit calculated from that average. The calculation is weighted so that lower income earners get a higher percentage of their average monthly earnings.

*Supplemental Security Income* (SSI) is a means tested Federal welfare program for US citizens who reside in the US. If you have no other income and limited assets you can get $623 per month. The amount is increased annually based on the cost of living.

Other than the retirement systems for Federal employees and the military, there is no other national pension system.

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## Curious George

> credits and no more contributions are needed but you can not draw it til you are of retirement age, at 62 you get about $1200 a month and at 65 you get about $1600, those are not exact but give you an idea.


This is about as close an estimate as you can get. There have been annual cost of living raises since then, but at a couple percent per year, you're still well below $2k/month gross, assuming you get full benefits. Rather meager to live anywhere, without other savings.  :Sad:   :Sad:

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## Marmite the Dog

I think that noise is the biggest consideration along with security.

As for driving, sure there are many idiots on the road, but apart from constantly telling GoW what a fuckwit that guy in the pickup is, I find driving here a doddle.

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## stroller

> $2k/month gross, assuming you get full benefits. Rather meager to live anywhere, without other savings.


Fekk, what are you planning to do, CG? Have a party barfining every night, or have servants wipe your arse and pick your nose? A school director takes home around $200 a month here, fekking think about it!

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## Marmite the Dog

> Fekk, what are you planning to do, CG? Have a party barfining every night, or have servants wipe your arse and pick your nose?


Bloody well ought to, old chap. 

Hired hands are as cheap as chips here. Give the natives a crack at doing an honest day's work for once. Do them good, eh what!?



> Fekk, what are you planning to do, CG? Have a party barfining every night, or have servants wipe your arse and pick your nose?

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## RDN

> You have just justified having a two story home. When I mentioned the cooking pots banging, I was talking about an outside kitchen, but next to our bedroom wall. ...


One way to make your bedroom quiet is to have a house with other rooms all round the bedroom. Logically this means a 9 room house with the centre one being the bedroom. Mine is effectively 6 rooms - 3 bedrooms at the back. The bedroom we sleep in is the middle one, so it is surrounded by other rooms on all sides except one. It's pretty quiet unless the neighbours at the back are having a party, but I can usually sleep through to the afternoon if I want.

In my old house, the bedroom was next to the car port which was next to the neighbours' car port - very noisy. So I bought a thick sheet of plywood and screwed it over the windows as sound-proofing, with sponge rubber all round the edges. It was so heavy I could barely lift it, but it did the job.  :Smile:

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## Marmite the Dog

> In my old house, the bedroom was next to the car port which was next to the neighbours' car port - very noisy. So I bought a thick sheet of plywood and screwed it over the windows as sound-proofing, with sponge rubber all round the edges. It was so heavy I could barely lift it, but it did the job.


How much light did it let in?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Propagator

> As for driving, sure there are many idiots on the road, but apart from constantly telling GoW what a fuckwit that guy in the pickup is, I find driving here a doddle. __________________


I have to agree with Marmite about the driving.    Maybe us Brits have an advantage here as we already drive on the correct side of the road.  :Smile:

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## RDN

> ...The roads in Thailand are not well maintained...


 :Very Happy:  Er, yes. I drove from Bangkok to Phuket in an Avis rental loaded up with all my stuff when I first moved to Phuket. And I've done the trip from Phuket to Bangkok a few times too. Not fun - boring in fact, except when the road changes from "acceptable" to "watch out!". 

The up country roads are worse - around Chaiyaphum they used to be bad because of all the sugar cane lorries. You had to drive on the wrong side of the road in many places just to find stones and dirt flat enough to drive at an acceptable speed, i.e. greater then 20 Km/hr.

I wouldn't drive at night or midday. You can't see the holes at those times. Early morning or late afternoon you could rely on the shadows giving in indication of how bad the road was. But even then, you had to constantly make the same decision: is the hole small enough so I can drive right over it so that all 4 wheels miss the hole, or is it so big I have to drive around it. Doing that for more than 30 minutes is exhausting.

The last time I drove to Bangkok was two years ago. The road wasn't too bad, but still a bit of a roller coaster around Chumpon.

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## Spin

I think the roads in Thailand are perfectly acceptable. Of course, out in the sticks they can be dicey but on the whole thewy are good.

I have driven the 450 km journey from Bangkok to Isaan loads of times and never got stuck in traffic. That particular journey is most interesting because the Thai's have some distinct difficulty in keeping thier vehicles with all four wheels in contact with the road. At regular intervals one is treated to a detailed view of the undersideof a new Toyota Vigo or whatever.
As long as you can avoid being taken out by one of those dicks then you have a very good chance of dying of old age here.

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## Curious George

> Originally Posted by Curious George
> 
> $2k/month gross, assuming you get full benefits. Rather meager to live anywhere, without other savings.
> 
> 
> Fekk, what are you planning to do, CG? Have a party barfining every night, or have servants wipe your arse and pick your nose? A school director takes home around $200 a month here, fekking think about it!


OK - OK! I guess I'm as far off base, as a Thai thinking their going to make it big and be wealthy elseware. All I can say is that when I priced out what I think it costs for daily necessities in Thailand, I have little problem. But, if I look at anything beyond that, as to save a little money, or have a cushion to revisit the US or travel abroad, it is all out of the question (to include catasrophic occurances).




> Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
> 
> As for driving, sure there are many idiots on the road, but apart from constantly telling GoW what a fuckwit that guy in the pickup is, I find driving here a doddle.
> 
> 
> I have to agree with Marmite about the driving. Maybe us Brits have an advantage here as we already drive on the correct side of the road.


But, the Thais pick any part of the throughway to drive on, pavement or not. What part legally belongs to them, and other than a dirt ditch, what part am I allowed to drive on?





> But even then, you had to constantly make the same decision: is the hole small enough so I can drive right over it so that all 4 wheels miss the hole, or is it so big I have to drive around it. Doing that for more than 30 minutes is exhausting.
> The last time I drove to Bangkok was two years ago. The road wasn't too bad, but still a bit of a roller coaster around Chumpon.


What can I say other than, no matter the millions of kilometers previously driven, types of terrain, attempting to be a civil co-occupier of the highway, it still can be very stessful.

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## blackgang

Thats right, you should make it very easily on $2,000 a month, but I sure wouldn't want to try it on much less, I import far less than that most months but ocassionally do bring in extra like when we do a modification on the shitty Thai construction of our house, but also my wife brings in 20K a month as her salary as a teacher too.

And you are welcome to drive on any part of the road as long as you watch out for Thais that like to drive on what ever side that you choose as your own. basically you will want to be as far left as possible, but that really don't mean shit.

I do not trust the Thai govt to much as they seem to only want our money and life here is a day to day thing and you will always be an Expat, never a immigrant, so I will never bring in more money than is required to live here or maintain a large bank balance, only import what you can afford to walk away from, and do not really plan on living here for the rest of your life because you can be asked to leave tomorrow or a visa renewal refused next year. :Wink:

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## mrsquirrel

> eat boiled cabbage, yeah, aint gonna bother donating to that one for a while


I will be ok out here then. Getting used to the cabbage already.

The Korean government and UK government have a treaty where my pension payments here count towards my NI and pension payments to the UK. Which I thought was great rather than just throwing 130 dollars away a month. 

Looks like I will be anyway. B

Bollocks.

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## Curious George

So, is Thailand really worthy to be coined - The Land of Smiles (LOS)?

I hate big cities. New York, Chicago, Los Angeles - Are they really friendly? I don't think so! Are Hamburg, London, Cairo, or any other overpopulated metropolis considered as being friendly? Years ago, I actually felt that Bangkok was still smiling and friendly. I believe that once a metropolitan area is exposed to the masses, the smiles disappear.

Maybe a 'City' person can handle a place like Bangkok. I'm so remote from those type of environs for my comfort zone, I can only deal with it short time (no pun intended). When in an overpopulated area, people servicing others need to be exceptional. Unfortunately, those hired into these positions, because of low pay, often have very poor people's skills, resulting in poor service, and certainly no smile.

So, if you're in a fairly large Thai metropolitan area, the smile is rare. You could find the unusual person who is truly lovely, positive and a gift to society, but on the other hand, someone smiling, while anticipating how much they will gain by their new encounter. As verbalized previously, this is not only seen in Thailand, but all over the world. The point to be made, is that in my opinion, the *lack* of smiles is spreading across Thailand. Places where I previously saw innocent smiles, I'm now finding sour and unhappy faces.

Over the years, with many visits to Thailand, I've viewed a migration of smiles. The problem is that they do not return to their origin. A few years ago, when visiting Chiang Mai, I thought I had found utopia. Everyone seemed congenial, and genuinely smiled during the encounter. Today, I need to move to Chiang Rai to find the same congeniality. You travel, not too many kilometers to the north, along the Myanmar border, and again the smiles disappear. The influx of tourism visiting the 'Golden Triangle' has totally ruined the area, relating mainly to the attitudes of the people dealing with the masses. We entered a restaurant in Mae Sai, where we've gone several times before. During this experience, the waitress was as sour about everything as could be imagined. I was sorry that I had encroached into her territory, and actually attempted to order something to eat. The upshot of all this is that she got a very meager tip. Upon leaving, I decided to wai her deeply as I would to an elder (not normally appropriate), thanked her very much for her services and openly smiled. I think I got the biggest genuine smile from her that day. I had broken the ice.

My analogy: If you put trash in a hole, others will follow suit and use the same depository. If you find an area that is pristine, and do not pollute it, attempting to keep it natural, you'll find it will remain that way.

So the moral of the story. If you expect genuine comradery from others, it is not so much the race or culture, but a heartfelt reaching out to them. In Thailand, I am sad to say that greed, and the doldrums of existence, have dulled the smile that belonged to the LOS.

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## El Gibbon

I see genuine Thai smiles every single day. Of course I live in an area where the few farang to be seen are actually living here.

Even in Chantaburi, the provincial capital, the Thai smile is evident everywhere. Again not many farang tourist in the area so the mistrust has yet to be earned. 

E. G.

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## Marmite the Dog

I agree with George on this point. Maybe we should all move to Laos?

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## peterpan

I live in a Farang Getto outside of Udon, nice ! no noise at all apart from the icecream vendor once a day. Nice bunch of chaps live around here, even the Seppos are well behaved. 
The few Thai that live in the moo Baan are well house trained and keep their property tidy, even saw one sweeping his roof last sunday.
 Clean air (the one thing I don't miss about BKK is the pollution) In BKK we cleaned our AC filters at least once a month, here I pulled them after 6 months and put them straight back again.
I can jump on my bike and be in the country roads in minutes. 
Of couse the downside is that I can't pop around to Villa and pick up some of the Food items I like, tops, Lotus and makro have a good range but not everything, Right now I need some cracked wheat to make Tabbouleh, nothing here at all. But If you can fill your time, its great here.

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## andyirish57

> Maybe we should all move to Laos?


Not a bad idea, my 26 year old son is there and the bastard won't come back home. He says its the best he has been and he gives Thailand the two fingers.

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## Curious George

> I live in a Farang Getto outside of Udon, nice ! no noise at all apart from the icecream vendor once a day....


That sounds like a rather nice spot. I haven't been north of Khon Kaen eastern Thailand.




> I do not trust the Thai govt to much as they seem to only want our money and life here is a day to day thing and you will always be an Expat, never a immigrant, so I will never bring in more money than is required to live here or maintain a large bank balance, only import what you can afford to walk away from, and do not really plan on living here for the rest of your life because you can be asked to leave tomorrow or a visa renewal refused next year.


The instability bothers me also. As I said before, if I packed my things to move to Thailand, I would be committed to stay. I wouldn't have any safety-net if things went belly-up. If I understand the present political climate, many Thai citizens are beginning to become a little uncomfortable, wondering if the current 'caretakers' will leave as promised. But, while it is a major concern when considering a place of retirement, I do plan to discuss the government here.

I do however have one other annoyance to talk about, and then I'll end this diatribe. It has been talked about by Expats quite a bit, and I have a problem with it also. I guess you could coin the problem as "Saving Face".

If I ask directions to somewhere, never will I get a response of "I don't know". Unless you're extremely lucky to find the knowing person, you will be sent on a goose chase to nowhere. Why is it so difficult to admit there are some things you don't know?  :Confused:  

If you go into a shop, you're pounced upon by a clerk, asking if you require help. So, you ask for an item, and the clerk says "We don't have that". As you walk the aisles browsing, the clerk is right on your heels. Then, on the shelf, you see exactly what you were looking for. You begin to examine it, and the clerk says "Would you be interested in that, it is the best one we carry?". Just a few moments earlier, the clerk claimed the store didn't have any, and the next minute when you've found it on your own, they seem to know all about it, extolling its wonderful (obvious) features.  :Mad:  One could say it is a language barrier, but mind you, most often my wife did all the talking in their native language.

I find that behavior very disturbing. What can you believe? I don't care if you call it saving face, white lies, misrepresentation, or.... It is downright irritating. The individuals spout off things as if they have all the knowledge, but make it up as they go along, and they see nothing wrong with it. It seems that if the lie doesn't physically hurt someone, they feel they haven't broken any of Buddha's precepts.

Thai Wife and I have an acquaintance that doesn't seem to know how to tell the truth. In time, you find out most everything she says is fiction. It seems to me that this is a learned behavior from little on, and I cannot fathom why. In my opinion, being passive and to lie as to not hurt someone's feelings, is faulted reasoning. I think that tactful handling of a situation doesn't need to lead to outright lying.
:soapbox:

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## peterpan

Thais are a timid, acquiescent people; they abhor confrontation (unless they are drunk) so they are taught to lie under the guise of saving face at an early stage. So no one hears the truth, and fat and ugly are handsome, the stupid are clever and the inept are smart. That way everyone gets on together. So if as happened yesterday and some old crone comes up my driveway to steal some of my mangoes, instead of telling her, as I did, to fok off before I come over and kick her kunt in, according to my wife I should just smile and let the old bitch get away with it.

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## Dougal

> I find that behavior very disturbing. What can you believe?


I remember reading the book Culture Shock years ago. In it the author adressed the same issue - Westerners regard the Thais as liars but at the same time he quoted the case where a Thai is invited to dinner by a Westerner who ends the evening with the phrase "Drop round anytime" but when the Thai does drop round unannounced he is made to feel unwelcome Thais conclude that Westerners are therefore insincere.

Thais are human like the rest of us. They are motivated by the same things have the same weaknesses and qualities with different emphasis in some areas. These characteristics appear more obvious to us as we are seeing them with fresh eyes while similar traits exihibited at home by Westerners tend to be overlooked as they are so common place.

In all cases these are life strategies that enable the person to get by in the local society - they are not done to deliberately confuse and annoy the foreigner. You can either tolerate and live with what appears to be annoying traits or decide that they are too difficult to overcome, in which case you would be well to stay at home because Thais aren't going to change to suit you.

To adopt the position that ones current social customs are the only correct ones is simply arrogance.

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## blackgang

said by CG.



> If you go into a shop, you're pounced upon by a clerk, asking if you require help. So, you ask for an item, and the clerk says "We don't have that". As you walk the aisles browsing,


I find the same thing, Or they will not have it and so tell you "No havo Thailand" if they do not have it on the shelf and try to sell you something else that would not work or do the job at all,,
Then go next door to another shop and they will have that item in abundance.

Just can not admit to the slightest flaw.

At this very moment I have been in a discussion with my wife, she is having a new block/concrete fence/wall built in front.
I have been involved in concrete work since my first job in construction as a laborer at 17 years of age, so I do know something about it.
I try to tell her that a form should be built plumb and the concrete be worked to the top of the form and finished on plumb, she says no, that the form should not be finished at the top, but leveled down inside the form. and then the first coarse of blocks brought level with grout. So the Thai workers at 150 bath per hour know more about construction and concrete than I do.

Talking to and trying to explain things to a Thai is like wiping your ass on a hoop..

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## Curious George

> I try to tell her that a form should be built plumb and the concrete be worked to the top of the form and finished on plumb, she says no, that the form should not be finished at the top, but leveled down inside the form. and then the first coarse of blocks brought level with grout. So the Thai workers at 150 bath per hour know more about construction and concrete than I do.


While I cannot comment about your wife's opinion, compared to your OJT with a proper constuction concern, but.... I would like to say something about the 150-200 Baht/day workers. They will do as they please without supervision. Most of their work is a botch job, lacking common sense unless closely supervised.

Thai Wife had a lot of work done at her Mom's house, by moving the outdoor kitchen from one side to the other. This meant concrete, wall sections, plumbing and metal roofing. Thai Wife is far from being a contractor, but she does use common sense. As she tells the story, she worked along with the helpers, got their respect and then they gladly followed her instructions (As a side note, she handed out the pay). This was her strategy after a pair of workers were left to their own devices, and told Mom and Sister "that's the only way it could be done". Thai Wife saw the job, and made them redo it. Then she worked side-by-side after that, to get it done her way.

I know that doesn't really help your situation, except to give encouragement, that you probably know much more about proper constuction. If you can convince your wife that you have a better way, just maybe the workers will build it "your way".

P.S. Is your wife there when they are working? If not, beat them into submission, and don't tell the wife.

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## Marmite the Dog

^ You've just allayed many of your own fears, mate. Thai Wife is your safety net. With her around you'll do just fine. Try not to piss her off!  :Smile:

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## El Gibbon

^ Well spotted. CG keeps forgetting that Thai Wife is a MAJOR asset to any functioning in Thailand.

E. G.

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## Thetyim

> I try to tell her that a form should be built plumb and the concrete be worked to the top of the form and finished on plumb, she says no, that the form should not be finished at the top, but leveled down inside the form. and then the first coarse of blocks brought level with grout.


Tell the workers you don't give a flying fuck which is the correct method.
You are paying the wages. You want it done your way.

If they don't want to build what the customer wants then the customer don't want it.

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## RDN

> ...I find that behavior very disturbing. What can you believe? I don't care if you call it saving face, white lies, misrepresentation, or.... It is downright irritating. ...


Couldn't agree more and I've told my g/f if she doesn't understand what I am saying to tell me and I will repeat it. But she never does and she ends up doing something that I thought we'd just agreed not to do, or vice versa.  :Banghead: 

I've also told her that when I say "pardon, what did you say?" I actually want her to repeat exactly what she just said because I didn't understand it. She never does. She ALWAYS says something different because, I believe, she is afraid that what she said before was wrong - bad English - and doesn't want to lose face by saying it again.  I, on the other hand, want her to repeat it so I can help her improve her English.   :Banghead:

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## Thetyim

> Talking to and trying to explain things to a Thai is like wiping your ass on a hoop..


I like that  :Smile:  
Quote of the week award to that man

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## blackgang

OK, I just looked out and they are doing exactly as I told my wife they would.
We have a slight slope to the front yard which makes for good drainage, but as someone said the other day, there is a hole under their block wall because water washes it out, well I told her to have then dig down and place the lower concrete pour a foot or so below existing ground level so the water runs around and not under, they have a 4 inch trench and that is the bottom of the fence foundation,, I screamed and she said "well thats the way they always do it"

Seems to me if thats the way that you always do it and it turns out wrong then you should change the way you do it.
I was told that 25 years ago when I wanted to get sober, but always drank again, and I was told that same thing, I changed the way I did it and it worked.

So now after we spend the money for this job, the dog will be able to walk under the fuckin fence or I will go back to my old way of throwing rubble in the washout.

I sometimes think I should just throw my hands up and go back home,,, but wait, I have spent a few million baht here and I did sell all my shit in the states, so I guess I am home.

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## Butterfly

^ BG, what did you expect ? it's a third world country. If they had any clue or skills, you wouldn't be paying 200 baht a day

No free lunch

And you ask why they don't change when they are wrong ? change to what ? they have no fucking clue of what works or not

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## blackgang

Thetyim,


> Tell the workers you don't give a flying fuck which is the correct method.
> You are paying the wages. You want it done your way.
> 
> If they don't want to build what the customer wants then the customer don't want it.


I poured from a transit mix both the carport deck and the rear deck, then started to pour a slab for a base for the 21 Thai water jars I use for a water system as we have no well and one is not possible that is over 4 meters deep, and all you get from that one will be drainage from cess pits and dry wells.
So we use harvested roof water for everything in our house.
Anyway I had a man and wife that worked for me steady, I always found something for them to do. and it took forever for him to do anything but what the hell.
So anyway I was having them form up for the slab I was going to pour, and they started to put in the form boards at different elevations when I had a string line for the top of form, I told him that I wanted the boards even with the string line and the concrete rodded at that elevation, he informed me that it was not necessary for the form to be finished to that line as the concrete could be finished anyway, I informed him that I wanted a level finish and that was the only way possible to do it for sure, so do it.
I went in the house and he and his wife went home and have not been back to work since, that is 4 years ago. they did come back and get their pay that I owed them tho..

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## Curious George

> Damn, I never heard no morning shit when I lived in CM either, but down here they start the shit at 0430 and the Wat kicks the huge high powered speakers on at 0500 and if anyones kid is going to the wat and play monk for a couple weeks then they also kick on the large sound trucks at 0500 and play that loud shit just same as they do At a funeral or wedding or anything else.
> Always got to start everything at 0500 tho, 500,000 watts of power thru 70 watt speakers so the noise is real loud and of shit quality with a solid rhythm coming from the electronics.





> I am not sure about the house design, but I also think that a lot of you are being very patronising
> 
> a nasty trait that a lot of expats acquire to defend themselves from new experience....





> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
>  I also think that a lot of you are being very patronising
> 
> 
> I like to think of it as just taking the piss. A lot of what you see in Thailand is a worthy target of a good piss take. It comes from our "white supremecy gene" me thinks.





> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> but seriously, the attitude I was remarking on, the "white supremacy" one, as mentioned above, is not nice at all
> 
> 
> If you read the quote you lifted from my post you'll find that I was specifically referring to how Thais like to build ornamental ponds. I wasn't dissing the construction industry in general. In fact, if you take a look at my house building thread you'll find that I'm quite happy with both the strength and quality of the construction. 
> 
> I think it's odd that if one offers some criticism then you're branded a racist and if you offer some praise you're branded a naive Thaiophile.


Please tell me why I should subject myself to all this s***, if I'm fairly comfortable where I live. Believe me, I don't think living in the US is any picnic either. When I weigh retirement in LOS vs. US, the resolve of being *happy* needs to be a final result. Continuing to live in the US will require my working until I die. I never was enthralled with working at any point in my life, but it has been a matter of existence. I need to compare the daily aggravation of retiring in the LOS, vs. continued working, as long as I am able in the US. I don't really like the prospects of either senario.

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## mrsquirrel

Retire to Malaysia then or Laos.

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## blackgang

I really think that after talking with you on here that you should stay in the states if what you post is really what you think.
Living here is sure not for everyone, and from what you say, you damn sure would not be happy at all in the moo ban and the only place you would be reasonably happy is Pattaya or similar and the cost would be astronomical compared to where I live.
I have a friend from Kansas that built a nice house up here and lived here for 3 years, spent all day running around in his pickup from 10.00 until 17.00 every day going to places that farang went to drink beer or coffee and set and bullshit with them even tho he never drank.
Finally sold out and moved back to Pattaya where he is paying 15.000 +baht a month for a house in a compound with other farang that he could rent the same quality/class house right here just a few hundred meters from my front door for 3500 a month.

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## Whiteshiva

> ..... he could rent the same quality/class house right here _just a few hundred meters from my front door_ for 3500 a month.


I wonder why he didn't...... :Cool:

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## blackgang

for the same reason that he sold his house and land for 3 mil baht and moved from where he lived back down to Pattaya where he had lived for 10 years, some people are not made to live in a Moo ban.
Like I said, he spent most of his time going around to talk to farang, came to my house daily for coffee and I live 30 Km from his house, so he put lots of miles daily to talk to people,,do you have anyone that drives 30 km each way to visit you daily?? I didn't think so, seems that the low self esteem is warranted.

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## Little Chuchok

^Low self esteem?Where did that come from?

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## Marmite the Dog

I think he was just bored.

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## Dougal

> I really think that after talking with you on here that you should stay in the states if what you post is really what you think.


I agree with BG. I realised fairly early on in this thread that CG's problem with Thailand was that it just aint like the good old US of A. Many people like the predictability of familiar surroundings - nothing wrong with that, if it's what you need. Stay where you are CG you aren't going to be happy here.

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## Whiteshiva

> for the same reason that he sold his house and land for 3 mil baht and moved from where he lived back down to Pattaya where he had lived for 10 years, some people are not made to live in a Moo ban.
> Like I said, he spent most of his time going around to talk to farang, came to my house daily for coffee and I live 30 Km from his house, so he put lots of miles daily to talk to people,,do you have anyone that drives 30 km each way to visit you daily?? I didn't think so, seems that the low self esteem is warranted.


I have had friends flying in from Taiwan, Singapore and Jakarta to spend a weekend with me in the last 5 weeks - does that count? :lam:  

But you are right - my self esteem has hit an all time low recently - I actually feel like a mere mortal at times..... :Cool:

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## blackgang

pobly needed a free place to stay after the cost of tickets, food free at your house and have to pay for it at a hotel..

Other than that, I sure wouldn't know. Surely wouldn't be the personality.. :Surprised:

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## Whiteshiva

> pobly needed a free place to stay after the cost of tickets, food free at your house and have to pay for it at a hotel..
> 
> Other than that, I sure wouldn't know. Surely wouldn't be the personality..


Perhaps not - guess it must be my charm, graceful manners and pleasant disposition.... :goldcup:  

The Singaporean was an ex-gf, BTW - and she stayed at the Conrad.  But I admit to paying for dinner - after all I had brought the wife, the kids and one of the maids..... :saythat:  

The Yank who flew in from Taiwan, who was also the best man at my wedding, is a CEO of a San Ramon based company (stayed with us), and the Aussie from Jakarta is a rather well-to-do stockbroker (stayed at the Westin on Sukhumvit - more strategic location for a single guy than my place out in Nontaburi).  Hardly the type of fellas that are on the lookout for handouts, if you get my drift.  But I guess you don't...... :Cool:

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## blackgang

Well not that I really care, what ever..

But you started it, so the ball is in your court,, keep it up or forget it, makes me no never mind at all.

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## RDN

> ... makes me no never mind at all.


Good grief! I had to look that one up.

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## Whiteshiva

> Well not that I really care, what ever..


Of course not :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  



> But you started it, so the ball is in your court,, keep it up or forget it, makes me no never mind at all.


Unless the Alzheimer's kicks in in 30-40 years time, I am unlikely to forget it, and I have normally no problems getting it up nor keeping it there, but I must admit I find your fascination with my manhood a bit disturbing.... :Cool: 


Seriously, though - does anyone know what the old fool is on about....?

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## stroller

He chose the last bird he managed to pull as his avatar... :Razz:

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## ILoveDogs

To the OP- I don't think you need to learn Thai to live here, especially if you decide to live in one of the more major areas, i.e, that have tourists and farangs living there.  There are many people who live here who are retirement ages, and nobody expects people of that age to learn new languages, as a general rule.

I see many farangs here who probably CLAIM they speak Thai, when all they really do is say an English sentence with a few, or one, Thai word thrown in.  It isn't very difficult to learn how to say anything is "very pretty" here, or the food is great, or to learn some numbers, and throw that together with English, which if anyone can understand you, they probably speak English anyway.

I knew someone who was here about one week and learned how to say in Thai "how much" and insisted on doing it everywhere she went.  However, if the people answered in Thai, she couldn't understand the answer.  She also learned how to ask for food "not spicey".  She went back to her country, went to Thai restaurants, told them she could speak Thai and then blurted out "not spicey" and thinks that qualifies for speaking a language.

I think you sound a little nervous to leave your country and maybe if you tried living here, or other similar places, for 6 months at a time, and see if you can find your way here, you might not feel it is so difficult to do.

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## jizzybloke

Been reading this and so much said is very interesting and informative CG all you can do is decide what is right for you and the wife!

But want to say that the UK pension is a pile of shite i know i will not be getting anything and pray to god that i never find myslf out of work, as i'm not fresh off a banana boat or some shit eating EE country i would not get anything for ages, a good friend of mine found herself in this position and it took 11 weeks to sort out paperwork and then help her financially!!

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## Jet Gorgon

Wow, CGeorge, so many what iffies and jam butties!
I think you would do splendidly in Thailand. Find a quiet village not too far from a main city and off the main road. Rent so if you find something nicer or they start building a resort near you, you can move. And what do you need? Crikes, Bt5,000 should get you a place with a nice garden.
Vitamins: see what fruits and veg carry the same supplements you need. Cheaper and healthier.
Medical: Many insurance plans in Thailand. My farang friends had policies thru their bank (hmm, Siam commercial maybe?) for cheap (they also had health probs on arrival). Docs, dentists and hosptials were all comparable to other places i've been and way cheaper. I rarely got sick in Thailand, I think because my stress levels almost vanished. but, when you get set up, go for a checkup at the nearest hosps and check their facilities.
Pets: Know many folks who brught theirs over. If you're really worried, you fly over first and put the pets on your wife's later flight. Then you can pick them up on delivery at live cargo. And then meet your missus!
Thai language: You know enough to get by for basics, fine. The family comes over, you share a meal and go to your computer "work". Some Thai friends had a long heated discussion one night; I asked what it was about -- politics, murder??? Oh, no, LOTTERY numbers.
Computers: Unless they're all lappies with world converters, forget it. Different voltage from US. Sure, you can get adaptors, but it'll probably cost you more in duties and adaptors etc than buying new ones. Burn everything to disc.
Hobbies: Geez, CG, aren't you the master monster on the garden thread? You will have a blast creating your own garden. I made mine from cuttings and gifts from neighbours. Takes no time to grow. Pots are cheap; buffalo dung fertiliser is free.
You have to get rid of all that western brain-washing and learn to chill. So a dog barks. A cockerel crows. A gecko shits on the porch. That's life. Learn to laugh lots everyday! Enjoy! You deserve it. Get rid of all that negative shit.
Your cyber friend, Jettie

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## Marmite the Dog

Listen to Jet, George. You know it makes sense.  :Smile:

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## buad hai

> Listen to Jet, George. You know it makes sense.


Agree. We're probably a lot alike CG and I'm doing OK. Granted, lots of frustrations, false starts and downright failures. But, I manage to get what I need, get out and about a bit on my own, ignore the family when necessary and still have a pretty good time with days that run out of minutes long before I run out of things to do.

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## Thaihome

Great thread.  I suspect the OP was trying to be difficult in a attempt to get the most out the discussion, which he did.
Only contribution I can make is that if he does decide to move, his wife will get a full container brought into the country without paying any duty.
TH

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## robin

Similar thoughts here to CG's , with a few major differences.
Having been self employed for a decade or two and just now qualifying for a UK state pension and a small supplement from Germany, I'm also considering at least spending my winters somewhere warmer.
I wouldn't consider burning my boats and although a widower, I have family ties in Germany which I won't be breaking.
I know Thailand and all the pros and cons mentioned here and after cruising the various forums on the subject of relocating,  it doesn't seem to be the favourite destination any more, with places like Malaysia and Laos being given more preference.
I don't have confirmation yet of how much my pension will be but I estimate about 40K Baht per month index linked.
So my question to the expats there is - without buying a property, would this cover basic living costs there (including health cover, visas etc)?
BTW, I'm not considering marrying a Thai.

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## Thormaturge

Over the four and a half years I have spent here, now aged 52, I have learned a fair amount of Thai. Can read some (the shorter words the easier it is), write some and converse on many subjects, and will never give up. If anything I consider it rude to expect Thais to spreak English with me in their own country.

There is another reason though.

I once had a good friend, an Italian, whose English was just understandable to me, but for Thais it was near impossible to understand. He spoke absolutely no Thai and relied upon his Thai wife to help him on most issues.

Last year, at the age of 64 he developed a life-threatening medical condition which he could not explain to anyone, and ended up taking a flight back to Italy never to be seen again. I offered to help but frankly he was worried sick because he couldn't explain anything to the doctors, his wife was dis-interested, and I couldn't be at the hospital 24-7. 

In answer to the Beatles' question, "will you still need me, will you still fee me?" The answer can sometimes be "No".

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## stroller

> So my question to the expats there is - without buying a property, would this cover basic living costs there (including health cover, visas etc)?


Yes..., but many would feel restricted on this budget, specially singles.

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## Jet Gorgon

Bt40k a month.
I lived on that quite easily. But you need to find the right place to do it; ie, not BKK or Pattaya. Friends had family in Kanom, on the mailnad side of Samui. They offered me a small house with enclosed wall on maybe 1/4 rai was only Bt2,000. Beaut beach nearby, friendly village, good (and cheap) wet market, and about an hour to Surat Thani town for big supermarkets, hospitals, dentists, etc Quite a few disgruntled Samuians have moved there, so a small expat community. If you like Thai food or cook yourself, you could get by easily on Bt100 per day for food. Swimming and dog walking were my exercise, so that was free. 
Mostly, you need a few hobbies to keep yourself occupied. I had three dogs and two cats, painted, wrote, built gardens, traded food with neighbours, found the local haunts to go for a beer/wine and socialize, etc. 
When you need farang food, books, change or more "civilisation", you find the farang hotspots -- in this case it would be Samui or Phangnan. 
Healthcare: many company plans in Thailand.
If you rent, you can travel a bit more or take side trips on visa runs (landlord always takes care). Maybe find somewhere nicer to live. Just travel light and be prepared to give up the garden, etc. Gets easier after a while, and you can always go back and visit.
Many folks do 6mos Thai-6mos home.

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## robin

^
This would be roughly on the lines of what I'm considering, Jet.
Added to that, I can still earn a little when I'm in Germany so the 40K is the minimum disposable.
Hobbies, no problem, I always find things to do.
Language, I can learn  what I need to know.
But having been up north to Kon Khaen, Nong Khai and Udon, I found them a little too quiet for me.
It wouldn't have to be Patts, Phuket or BKK but somewhere with a little night life, maybe CM or similar.
As for the rest of Thailand, I have no idea what would suit me, never having been to alternative places.
Samui sounds okay; was that 2K per month or per week rent?

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## johnbkk

> I live in a Farang Getto outside of Udon, nice ! no noise at all apart from the icecream vendor once a day. Nice bunch of chaps live around here, even the Seppos are well behaved. 
> The few Thai that live in the moo Baan are well house trained and keep their property tidy,


Peter, this sounds like paradise.  Whereabouts is this area?

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## Texpat

> Thais are human like the rest of us. They are motivated by the same things have the same weaknesses and qualities with different emphasis in some areas. These characteristics appear more obvious to us as we are seeing them with fresh eyes while similar traits exihibited at home by Westerners tend to be overlooked as they are so common place.


In Issan, they're mostly uneducated pesants with no manners, few skills but possess the knowledge of the world.

Farang: Put the horse in front of the cart.
Thai: The cart can go before the horse. Then all you have to do is move the horse, or the cart, or both. See how easy it is, silly farang.

Wouldn't say thank you if it would save their life.

Can't grasp the concept of air conditioning. AC on high, doors and windows open. Sabai, sabai. Absolute pesants.

I had screens installed on every window of my house. Thai friends/family/neighbors open the screens (for lom yen) and flies, mossies invade the house.
Never occurs to them that breeze can go through screens, but mossies can't.

I had a concrete driveway (20m) installed. Four lengths of 2' drainage pipes sat idly off to the side as workers prepared (compacted) the drive, laid the forms for concrete and started dropping in rebar. 

They forgot to set in the drainage pipes (sitting 5 feet away) under the drive. Undo everything you've spent the past two days doing.

I could go on forever, but won't.

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## stroller

Obviously not the place for you, Texpat.

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## Texpat

Sadly, it is the place for me. Just finished my house in Nong Khai. I like the weather, the land, the prices of most things. But the people ... Most are just ignorant, lazy wanks. I have a good neighbor who has his head screwed on straight and he's about the only one (apart from my wife) that I can sit down and talk with. I've been in Thailand 16 months, in my house 3 months. Got good UBC and Internet recently and will likely become an online junkie -- again.

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## Jet Gorgon

> ^
> This would be roughly on the lines of what I'm considering, Jet.
> Samui sounds okay; was that 2K per month or per week rent?


OK, Bt40k won't cook it on Samui anymore, methinks. Best plan is to travel a bit first, choose location, check out the people and amenities. Texpat is in Nongkhai, but wow, it's quiet there. 
A half tourist place is good, as you can meet new intelligent folks, learn what's going on in the "real" world, etc. I tired of the Peyton Place on Samui, and many tourists I met really added good times. Bennies: if you don't like them, you go home and they are gone in a few weeks; you like them, you stay in touch by email.
You find the cheaper places by getting to know some farang-Thai couples running bars/restaurants. 
You'll know when you find it.

Note to Marmers: Wanklette. But HatYai is better than ****. Winky wankler wonklette maker.

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## navynine

The wife and I have lived in Thailand for going on 5 years and the language has not been that big of a problem. In fact we find it to our advantage most of the as we only hear the good things and very little of the diff. family problems around us. And yes we are both from the US and love it here.................If you do not try it you will never know

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## Marmite the Dog

> Note to Marmers: Wanklette.


Thanks, Sweetie.

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## Curious George

> Healthcare: many company plans in Thailand.


Thanks JG for all of your encouraging comments. Specifically, if you have information about a company that offers health insurance in Thailand for someone 65 or older, I would appreciate it if you could pass that along. Typically, no insurance is offered after the age of 60.

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## Sir Burr

BUPA offer health insurance up to the age of 70. It'll cost you, though.

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## ILoveDogs

To the Op and to Robin- I would think in both of your cases, moving to another country could give you a much better standard of living.  But maybe Thailand is not the place, although the OP says he has a Thai wife so that would seem to give you a lot of advantages here, and make up for you lack of language skill (which I don't think you need to have, but however, you have an in-house translator that I assume you can trust.)

I have been looking a lot lately at other countries, because I 50&#37; hate it in  Thailand, mostly due to the visa policies, the total lack of any rights you can ever earn here, no matter what you own, who you marry, etc.  And due to the language.  If I lived in any other country, with the same writing as we have, I could learn a lot, and even without speaking the language well, however here, you can be fluent for speaking, but still unable to read a damn thing.  I mostly would like to read! Read the billboard I am driving past, read the document I have to sign, read the name of the restaurant I have been to 36 times already, read a menu and pick what I like, etc.

For these reasons I wish I would have picked some countries in South America to live in.  But it takes a big investment in time to learn all you need to learn, and a lot of money to move yourself and buy everything again, in a place that is so far from Thailand.  Now that I own a house here, a car, have many pets, this seems like a big deal that I don't want to take on yet, but still may do.  I would think it would be a good place to look before you decide to move here, or stay where you are.  They have much better laws for farangs also, for property ownership, business, and visas.

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