#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Farming & Gardening In Thailand >  >  Farming 10 rai??

## somtamslap

My wife and I have 10 rai in the Pak Chong area.  The soil is red and clayie.  Any old hands have any advice to what might be profitably grown on this area of land with this type of soil?

Cheers.

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## Texpat

Good luck with that...

I have some clayish land and have had no luck growing anything except lamyai trees that were there when I bought it.

Banana and papaya trees grow to about knee-height, then suddenly stop.  :Sad: 
 I suspect the roots can't penetrate the clay.

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## somtamslap

The papaya trees on the adjacent piece of land seem to be growing like weeds, so maybe the soil isn't that dense.  I fenced a section off not so long ago and was able to dig the footing holes without too much problem (a few scoops)  So its a fluffyish clayie red soil, if that makes any sense!

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## notanameleft

> The papaya trees on the adjacent piece of land seem to be growing like weeds, so maybe the soil isn't that dense. I fenced a section off not so long ago and was able to dig the footing holes without too much problem (a few scoops) So its a fluffyish clayie red soil, if that makes any sense!


you can plant the corn, sugarcane, and cassava for sure.
don't ask me how because i don't know.
Maybe you should ask the local people who live around you.

If you wanna plant something different, you will have to adjust the soil. Maybe the peanut can help. Pls consult the agriculturist.

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## Rural Surin

Red loamy clay, everyone seems to be blessed or cursed with this soil. Even with a reasonable small parcel of 10 rai, one can easily modify this questioned soil with top soil blends and assorted sandy loams. As everyone knows here, the regional soil need to be worked and maintained. Wouldn't hurt at all to start sowing in mulches, top soils, and other nutrient rich organic matter. Good luck to ya. :Smile:

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## somtamslap

Thanks for the advice chaps.  I will get someone to take a look at the soil.  The surrounding fields are either planted with corn or 'noi na' (sugar apple) but I'd like to move away from these if possible. Avocado is sold in the markets round here so I may look into this.

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## forreachingme

just lend the land to a farmer and he will return you a quarter of what he planted or a third if you are greedy...

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## Nawty

Where in Pak Chong...we have 8 rai nearby also.

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## somtamslap

> just lend the land to a farmer and he will return you a quarter of what he planted or a third if you are greedy...


  Yeh, thats an option but I'm pretty keen to get hands on myself.  Whatever I do, it won't take place until the middle of next year so or possibly the year after, so I have alot of time to research.

Would palm be profitable on this relatively small piece of land or would people suggest more short term arrangements like papaya and banana.
Any advice much appreciated and much needed.

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## somtamslap

> Where in Pak Chong...we have 8 rai nearby also.


  It's about 9km's out of town.  Across the train tracks (if you know them) then onto the main(ish) road, where 'Charlies Pub' is.

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## Mr Earl

eucalyptus trees, see what the double a paper company is offering in your area.

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## good2bhappy

a little orchard
Mayongchit

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## somtamslap

Cheers gents, i'll take both of those ideas on board.

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## Nawty

> Originally Posted by Nawty
> 
> Where in Pak Chong...we have 8 rai nearby also.
> 
> 
>  It's about 9km's out of town. Across the train tracks (if you know them) then onto the main(ish) road, where 'Charlies Pub' is.


Don't know that area...we down near the park entrance gate.

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## notanameleft

eucalyptus is crap!
if you just want the money, if you don't mind how the soil would be after planting it. then go for it!

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## jingjoke

> eucalyptus is crap!
> if you just want the money, if you don't mind how the soil would be after planting it. then go for it!


Hmmm, could you please explain as I was thinking of planting eucalyptus in an area of property which is wet, as I had read/heard somewhere that the eucalyptus trees suck up the excess moisture. Thanks.

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## Nawty

They are good for that use...but do you want to use the land afterwards for anything ??

Eucs tend to suck up all the goodness as well and leave it kinda deteriorated.

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## somtamslap

> down near the park entrance gate.


 Lovely area but well out of my price range.  Its what us townies call the 'posh bit'.

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## Nawty

Awesome...always wanted to be in the top end of town....

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## Norton

> My wife and I have 10 rai in the Pak Chong area.


This type soil is prevalent in the Isaan Plateau.  Pak Chong is one of the most fertile areas in the country.  Not so much for it's soil but rather it's weather.  Just about any type of vegetable or fruit can be grown there.

Not sure about the avocado but if you do get some to grow I'll be a regular customer.  Growing Haas variety seems to be a problem but the smooth skin variety should grow but not as tasty.

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## somtamslap

> Not sure about the avocado


  It seems a very small plantation maybe worth a crack, what with Pak Chong research station so conveniently placed and the grafted plants quite easiy obtainable.  Maybe I'll put some effort into this, maybe.






> if you do get some to grow I'll be a regular customer


If your ever in Pak Chong at around this time of the year, well about August through to December actually, check out the night market. You can get a kilo of very tasty avocado's for 40 bt ( thats about 4 fairly decent sized ones), that compared to the 50 plus bt per piece you get in Tesco is quite a bargain.

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## Ciaphas

I wouldn't go with avocado as it takes ten years before they fruit. We have 10 rai of papaya in a similar soil type that grow very well and are reasonably easy to manage. I think you get a good price for papaya at the moment.

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## Norton

> I wouldn't go with avocado as it takes ten years before they fruit. We have 10 rai of papaya in a similar soil type that grow very well and are reasonably easy to manage. I think you get a good price for papaya at the moment.


Always an issue with most fruiting trees.  Takes a long time.  Papaya, grows like a weed so good.  Dragon fruit is good as well and brings a fair price.

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## Rural Surin

> They are good for that use...but do you want to use the land afterwards for anything ??
> 
> Eucs tend to suck up all the goodness as well and leave it kinda deteriorated.


This is true. Unless you have in mind to have established eucs in a particular location for a long period of time {35 years}, I would never consider this option. Eucs do have a reputation to foking up the soils and whatnot. Then there is the option as to chasing the profit motive. Right know, one could make a killing with mature productive eucs. :Smile:

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## Carnwadrick

^^^ grafted avocado plants should fruit within three years but you need good draining soil so need to mix in loads of sand and even light gravel to your clay ground, good luck

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## Mr Earl

> Originally Posted by Ciaphas
> 
> I wouldn't go with avocado as it takes ten years before they fruit. We have 10 rai of papaya in a similar soil type that grow very well and are reasonably easy to manage. I think you get a good price for papaya at the moment.
> 
> 
> Always an issue with most fruiting trees.  Takes a long time.  Papaya, grows like a weed so good.  Dragon fruit is good as well and brings a fair price.


Papaya is good too because there is always a strong local demand for the fruit. As well as watermelon, people around here are making good money from watermelon.

I'm going to try a few avocado trees just because I like avocados. But cheap imports from other countries will kill the commercial viability me thinks.

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## Rural Surin

> ^^^ grafted avocado plants should fruit within three years but you need good draining soil so need to mix in loads of sand and even light gravel to your clay ground, good luck


What is the domestic avacado market doing these days? Good place to be? Certainly, it might be considered a "specialty" market {or not} that would make for a decent profit, yes?

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## El Gibbon

> Originally Posted by Norton
> 
> Not sure about the avocado
> 
> 
>   It seems a very small plantation maybe worth a crack, what with Pak Chong research station so conveniently .


Take advantage of these folks....!!!!! they really are helpful with advice and recommendations. Been there, done that.

E. G.

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## Carnwadrick

> What is the domestic avacado market doing these days? Good place to be? Certainly, it might be considered a "specialty" market {or not} that would make for a decent profit, yes?


Presently I am in California but just got back from Issan where I seen quite a lot of avocados on stalls at the market but few interested buyers. I plan on growing a tree or two on our property in Si Sa Ket but just for personnel use

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## donald36

Keep it simple ,the locals are growing Sweet Corn  dragon fruit and manioc,they are almost certainly right

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## Norton

> Keep it simple ,the locals are growing Sweet Corn dragon fruit and manioc,they are almost certainly right


Agree.  Avocado for personal use is good but Thais have yet to acquire a taste for Avocado so market is extremely limited.  Sweet corn in Pak Chong is some of the best I've ever had but because of the relatively low price and abundance hardly worth growing yourself.

The only things I try to grow are those not readily available locally.  Some of the chilies and spices needed for Mexican food are among them.

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## jedsez

i am not a farmer, but ...

we have a clayish soil here. it packs down like rock and seems impervious to anything. takes a strong back to break it up into usable dirt. nid has been working an area to make her garden. once broken up it supports crops very well. actually amazingly well. but it is very difficult to break up.  

we just got a roto tiller. spinning blades tear up the soil kind of thingy. what it does for this soil is unbelievable. what was a compacted rock like area becomes some of the finest seed bed quality dirt i have ever seen. i would never have believed it if i hadn't seen it.

so, point one. get a tiller of some sort. 10 rai should be large enough, perhaps in conjunction with some neighbors, to get a small tractor. otherwise a roto tiller. break up that clay. then see what you have to work with. you may be surprised.

next point. in nid's garden she has had great success with long beans. tomatoes have been a failure. she says too much water from the rain. various greens, of which i know nothing, also do well. 

mango, papaya, lemon, orange, and other trees are doing well. bananas are like weeds.

during the season, just past, her papa grew field corn. i tried some sweet corn with moderate success.

across town nid's mama grows tobacco for her own consumption. 

there is a dry land rice. it doesn't require the soaking field to be planted and doesn't seem to need much water either. i have seen it but know nothing else about it.

in our area of clayish soil these are the things i have seen. 

don't forget animals as crops. if nothing else grows then maybe cows, buffalo or chickens? these are also excellent sources of fertilizer. the buffalo drop reasonable amounts on the road, so if you want some for free it is there. otherwise ask your local and they will be glad to start bagging it for you, for a small fee. nid's sister has pigs, so we are using that.

mai sok trees (the huge leaved trees used for construction lumber) are ubiquitous around here. but after talking to some people i just don't see the money in them. after 10 years or so they sell a tree for 500 baht or so.

lastly. if growing for sale look for the market first. when a crop is ready it is ready. no time then to see where you can sell it. avocado, sure. i love them but nid is just so-so for them. so, when i get my trees going, they will probably just be for me since i don't see any large market for them locally. (btw, when i was passing through chiang mai i bought 3 for 35 baht at a local mkt. big ones. at rimping ex-pat mkt in chiang mai they were 65 baht each. there are markets and there are markets)

best of luck. we are treading the same path.

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## Nawty

> Originally Posted by Norton
> 
> if you do get some to grow I'll be a regular customer
> 
> 
> If your ever in Pak Chong at around this time of the year, well about August through to December actually, check out the night market. You can get a kilo of very tasty avocado's for 40 bt ( thats about 4 fairly decent sized ones), that compared to the 50 plus bt per piece you get in Tesco is quite a bargain.


Is that the night market in the middle of town, on left side as heading in from highway #2 ? I have been there twice and never saw any....possibly wrong time of year though I guess.

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## WhiteLotusLane

Royal Project (Doi Kham) stores often have affordable Avocado.  (When in season)

I'm also tempted to plant the seed.. Chances are the resulting tree won't be producing proper avocados though, but it's still a nice tree.

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## THORZEN

Our Farm has red clayish soil and our Tung Trees seem to like them. We do not have anyone from Pak Chong growing the Tung yet, so if you are interested, please do let us know, we would love to have you join us.

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## THORZEN

Trying to attach picture of our farm for your viewing, if someone will tell me how to attach a pic, would really appreciate it. Thanks! (stupid me)

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## somtamslap

^ Thorzen, would love to see the pictures, mate. You'll have to upload them on 'photobucket' or another similar website first then, you could add them. Start a thread, I'm sure many would be interested. 
I'm still well into the idea of farming this land, gotta drill for water first and it should be all systems go in the next year or two...lots of time to think and experiment with different types of crops..

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## Nawty

You can use my trials for the 'negative' arguement if you like

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## THORZEN

> ^ Thorzen, would love to see the pictures, mate. You'll have to upload them on 'photobucket' or another similar website first then, you could add them. Start a thread, I'm sure many would be interested. 
> I'm still well into the idea of farming this land, gotta drill for water first and it should be all systems go in the next year or two...lots of time to think and experiment with different types of crops..


Thank you for your lead. I have signed up for photobucket: - 'thorzen_2009'. Will take your suggestion and start a new threat. Right now we are trying to plant all the young ones we have before the end of this rainy season, worried as the constant rain up north right now is not helping, can't get much work done. Need to get them into the ground in the next 2 months so that we can start all over again for the next crop! 

Would appreciate all comments and suggestions as we need all the help we can get! THANKS ALL!

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## THORZEN

For those interested, I hope you will be able to view some of the photos of our farm with red clay soil on my album on photobucket/Thorzen_2009  Cheers!

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## DrAndy

it depends on your soil profile

dig a deep trench to check how far the clay goes down. If it is deep, then you will only be able to grow crops and trees that have shallow rooting and don't mind waterlogging occasionally

if shallowish, you can dig down and break it up for any tree you want to plant

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## somtamslap

Went to the Pakchong Research Centre today to pick up half a dozen avocado trees. A German chap just down the road from me has got a few and after 4 years of growing have started to produce fruit already..



Unfortunately today was their wan yoot so I had a stroll around and had a look at what else they were growing..

These are guava I think..



Mango trees



Papaya



Not sure about these..couldn't get lose enough to look at the fruit..Looked a bit like mangosteen though.

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## somtamslap

Another unknown fruit.



Grapes



Tomatoes



Dragon Fruit

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## somtamslap

Custard apples.



Chilli



and corn, by far the most grown crop here



Food for thought...

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## Nawty

I bought some avacado from here, doing very well.

Did not see the tomatoes though, might have to go check them out.....where were they located ??

Also there is a Jap famr at Saraburi that does tours....for free...it is organic and seems to specialise in their own fertilisers and bug sprays etc   ems or something like that. we are going to go have a looksie one day.

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## somtamslap

Went back down to the Research Station to pick up the avocado trees only to be told they were out of them and wouldn't have any more in until next year. Hopefully be able to pick some up in Klang Dong just down the road..loadsa nurseries there.  

I did, however, come away with a couple of rambutan trees and a couple of durian trees (prob wishful thinking in this part of the country, but if they come up trumps I could be on a winner).
Did some research on the rambutans and they start producing an awful lot of fruit after a couple of years. They originally come from Malaysia, meaning the word rambutan is Malaysian.. Rambut means 'Hairy' and adding Utan on to the end of any Malaysian word turns it into a noun..

So I've got a couple of hair trees to add into the mix.

^ Nawty, let us know when your next in PC and I'll show you the tomatoes.

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## THORZEN

FYI - we have also planted lime trees on our red clayed farm but it is only a few months old, so could not tell you until later if they will give good results.

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## somtamslap

Oranges seem to do quite well around here too..
The mother in law has a few trees in her garden, completely uncared for and they are now producing alot of fruit. They're about 5 years old and about 12 foot high.

Spent the day lining the border of the land with various trees today. Good to get out and do some hard work after such a long stint of attempting to use my brain. I'm hoping in half a decade or so we might reap the benefits of these..
Good time to plant as well as in rained heavily for most of the day..rambutans, guava, a durian tree, a chompuu tree, bananas, papaya, lam yai and eventually avacado will go into the mix..
Here's a pic of the first few going up. 



Back to it tomorrow.

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## Nawty

good to see.........

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## mook

Does anyone have a phone number for the Pakchong Research Station? 

I have gone to the universities website. It is not listed in their directory. I have called numerous numbers for various agriculture departments & nobody knows what I am talking about. I'm getting a bit frustrated.

I live close to the Mekong, so it's not very convenient to drive there to ask a question...which is do they have Haas avocado seedlings.

Any help is appreciated.

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## pseudolus

Pakchong Research Station : Kasetsart University 

Tel . 0-4431-1796

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## pseudolus

สถานีวิจัยปากช่อง สถาบันอินทรีจันทรสถิตย์ ฯ อ.ปากช่อง จ. นครราชสีมา 30130 โทร 044-311796

This is their facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/pages/%E0%B...73512076089689

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## pseudolus

A mobile number as well 

081-4702382,

https://research.rdi.ku.ac.th/forest...aspx?id=360028

เรืองศักดิ์ กมขุนทด
นักวิชาการเกษตร

สถานีวิจัยปากช่อง ศูนย์วิจัยและถ่ายทอดเทคโนโลยีการเกษตร
คณะเกษตร
วิทยาเขตบางเขน
ijsrsk@ku.ac.th
044-311796

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## baldrick

^ and the phone number of the cute secretary in the animal husbandry department ?

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## pseudolus

can be reached here

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## mook

Many thanks for the info....I tried many numbers in the universities on line directory with no success and more than a little frustration. Especially to the question "Do you speak English?"   "Yes"...and then transfer to somebody else that did not speak English, who swore they did.


 One would think I was speaking Swahili.

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## donald36

Usual questions ,who will do the work who will manage it ,how do you check on whats  been done ,workers go at half speed when working for others.
Sprays, fertilisers etc will be stolen unless you are on site to either do or supervise the application 

Theres very little money in farming --just look at the state of most farmers, for most of us renting it out  is the way to go

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## CaptainNemo

> ^ and the phone number of the cute secretary in the animal husbandry department ?


I can give you that, if you want.  :Wink:

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