#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Construction in Thailand >  >  > Building in Thailand Famous Threads >  >  Building Your Own Shophouse

## dirtydog

Yep this thread will teach you how to build your own shop house in several easy steps.

This block of shop houses is down near my land and has just been started on.

Anyway first off you need some scraps of wood, these you need to whack into the ground to run your lines from so you can get all your posts in nice straight lines, with this job as it is quite a big one they got a digger in for the day to dig out for the footings.

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## dirtydog

Next up you can chuck some concrete in the bottom of the hole and then use breeze blocks to make the form for the footings, here I believe they just cemented the blocks to the dirt, normally works but sometimes the form breaks apart.




Now your ready to start tieing all your rebar together, here they have used I believe 16mm ribbed rebar, so this one is going to be a 3 storey building probably.

You see all those square pieces of steel on the post? yep you have to make those yourself, thousands and thousands of them you need and it is mind numbingly boring to do, then again I suppose most jobs are boring, well I shall be down there later this week to see how well they are doing with the ground beams, actually it will probably take them about 15 days before they are ready to do the ground beam pour  :Smile:

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## buadhai

Footings look kind of small for a two story shophouse. How big are they?

Neighbor here in Korat just built an elevated house on well compacted ground. The footings were a meter or so deep and at least a square meter or so in area.

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## dirtydog

Looking at the blocks I would guess the footings are 85 cms by 90cms, not sure how deep they go, but probably 80 cms deep at least.

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## marklatham

Footings are critical,when you think about it.
It all depends on the compaction achieved on site.
Do you have an engineeer?
A real engineer is critical ,duay.

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## dirtydog

Ahhh, it's not my job unfortuneately, but normally one of city hall engineers would come round once per week to check on things.

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## klongmaster

> this one is going to be a 3 storey building probably


 


> Footings look kind of small for a two story shophouse


 if it's 3 storeys makes it even worse...

a squat dunnie BH...don't know how you do it...oops ..on the other thread but you understand..

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## buadhai

Compare the six floor mansion with my place in the first five or six shots here: http://www.mgnewman.com/Korat_1/

<edit> ooops, wrong thread....

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## dirtydog

Part 2 of the exciting thread on how to build your own shophouse  :Smile:  ;


Well they are now rushing along sorting out all the rebar for the ground beams, looking at the steel sizes I would say that these will be 4 storey buildings, think I personally would have done the footings a bit bigger, but maybe they are only 3.5 meters apart, and no I aint gonna measure them, they are wondering why some crazy farang is taking pictures of their work.




This bit here is ready for the pour  :Smile:  trouble is they got loads more ground beams to make up before old ready mix gets called in...

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## Dougal

DD Am I correct in thinking that in the picture above the cement footing is only as thick as the single course of blocks that I can see?

Did they then build the column shutter out of more block courses up to ground level and backfill the hole with sand?

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## dirtydog

Yeah they back filled the hole to stop it collapsing before they poured the footing, it will be at least 4 blocks deep, 20 cms per block plus a bit for the mortar between each one.

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## Dougal

OK. I am calling the footing the pad at the bottom that is about 2 blocks by two btw.

Seems an odd way to go about it. I would have thought it was easier to dig a smaller initial hole and use the sides as the former for the footing and then use wooden shutters around the rebar - I suppose speed isn't really an issue is it.

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## dirtydog

Wood is too expensive here, materials are expensive here, labour costs are rubber bands and dead animal prices  :Smile:

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## dirtydog

Well these guys are moving along at a fine pace, they are actually building 2 blocks of shop houses, and from this picture we can see that the first block has had the ground beams poured already, as you can see the beams are wet and there is a hose in the background, yep everyday they will hose the beams down to stop them drying out too quick, concrete reaches 80 percent hardness in about 30 days.

Anyway tomorrow I shall be starting a thread on how to build your own swimming pool with exciting action pics of my staff digging holes and other great stuff like that, actually the footings for the pool have already been done....

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## Dougal

I will look forward with eager anticipation to the pool. The missus has been nagging me to get a pool built this year. Lots of pics please.

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## dirtydog

Well these guys are moving along at a fine pace, here we can see the form work for the wall beams, here they have used 10mm ply wood and 2 by 1s to reinforce the ply, looking at it they maybe ready to do all the pours for them tomorrow.

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## dirtydog

Also you can see that the area has now been infilled to the level of the ground beams, I am really not sure if they will start on the rebar for the floor soon or not, the wood for the posts needs to stay on for a couple of days really, I think the sensible thing would be to do the wall beam pour, then the next couple of days sort out for the ground beam pour on the other block of shophouses, that way they dont need so much wood for doing the wall beams, I suppose it depends a lot on their profit margin.

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## Eliminator

Since all of these beams seem to be the same size, I would think it would be better to use metal forms and then use them over and over again but, TIT

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## dirtydog

In first world countries the forms would be metal, here due to so many poor people and the value of metal it would be stolen and sold for scrap  :Sad: 

Anyway the form work is now off of most of the posts and they are starting to put the supports in for the floor beams pour, for this they place wooden supports every 80 cms, the cross beam at the top is generally 120cms, don't forget they got to work on this tieing all the rebar together up there  :Smile:

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## dirtydog

Well today I nipped down to the land, and on my way stopped off here, They are rushing along with the work, anyway here is the rebar being tied together for the beam work.

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## dirtydog

Now they got the form work up and are doing the pour for the beams, messy work  :Smile:

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## buadhai

Great thread. Keep it coming.

Very interesting for me to compare concrete work here compared to how it was done by the Filipino workers on Saipan.

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## friscofrankie

Spent ten years in and out of the operating engineers back n the states late 70s - late eighties.  Speciality was concrete pumps (mechanic).  i've seen a few u phere and in BKK what's the cost?  It's amazing the methods used 
been considering a monolithic pour for posts and beams on the bottom half of my home to be, using vibrators (i've seen 'em in equipment shops though nevere seen a pour yet that could have possible used one) and masonite covered ply for forms.  Would I need to import labor?  
Not above muckin about in cement, showing how it's done but not really my heart's desire.

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## dirtydog

Nipped down there again today, it seems that a few got back from songkran and now they are building the walls, aint these Thai bricks crap.

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## Texpat

They do look a mite flimsy. I would imagine I could stumble through that wall if I got good n liquored up.

Aren't there western (brick) options?

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## dirtydog

Ahhh, as you will notice in this picture they have formed a concrete beam halfway up the wall, this will give it the strength it needs Texpat.

Also it seems that a lot of the wood for forming the posts has been stolen or destroyed, in this picture you can see posts with formwork, finished posts and posts that haven't been started on.

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## dirtydog

Here we have an exciting action shot of the labourers pouring concrete into the form work.

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## Dougal

Do they ever use vibrating pokers or are they agitating the pour with anything?

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## dirtydog

This is Thailand Dougal, so no they aint agitating the pour, generally you can get away without agitating the pour, note the word _generally_, it is bad practise though and there is no way you would be allowed to get away with that in a normal country, I would say that 99 percent of the time the beam comes out ok, and with labour being so cheap here why worry if you have to smash down 1 beam out of every 100, my vibrator cost about 18,000baht and is petrol run, but the way they are running at the moment on this job they would do just aswell with a long piece bamboo.

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## dirtydog

Just to give you a better idea of the next floors beamwork at the shophouses, here is a picture I took of a house being built where we are working, at moment they are tieing up the rebar, well one or 2 of them are the others are just sitting there going *wot the fok am I doing up here when it's 100 foking degrees* Well something like that I should imagine, so next time you think Thais are lazy I will pay you one days salary for every 2 hours of work you can manage, Thai salary that is  :Smile:

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## dirtydog

As you can see in this picture they have used precast concrete beams for the floor or ceiling depending which way you look at it, these are about 5cms thick, you can see in this picture that they are supported with wood to stop them sagging or them breaking when they do the concrete pour on top of it, alas they always sag and if it is the roof area this is where water will saty due to the sagging in the middle.






Anyway I had a quick climb up their makeshift ladder today risking life and limb to see if they had done the pour on the second floor, and yep, here it is  :Smile: 





On this block of shop houses they are still doing the beamwork for the second floor.






The original block they are now doing the beamwork on the 3rd floor, things are zooming along at a nice pace  :Smile:

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## dirtydog

I suppose you are all just as anxious as me as to how they are getting along with these shop houses, well it still seems they are lacking in staff, maybe due to the rice planting season perhaps.

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## dirtydog

Rebar and beams.

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## dirtydog

Well I am still disappointed at the pace of work, lack of workers I should imagine plus all the rainy days we have had in the past few weeks, the beam work is now up for both buildings second floor, but will they build a third floor?

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## Eliminator

When they use small bricks or evne the smaller blocks, why don't they put in a wire mesh BEFORE doing the screen work?   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## dirtydog

They do put in the rebar before doing the form work, or have I missunderstood your post?

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## dirtydog

Well I have to admit to leaving everyone in suspense about what is happening down there, here is a picture I took last week, now looking at this you can see the sky through the concrete plinths, now these are like 30cms wide, 5cms deep and probably upto 5 meters long, you can order the size you need, anyway these are just laid across the beams and then more rebar/steel-work is chucked on top and then another concrete pour is done, as you can see they are supported with old bits of wood so they don't collapse or sag too much, I have to admit everyone we have tiled though the original floor sags in the middle by about 3 cms  :Sad:  have to use loads of cement to correct that  :Sad:

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## Marmite the Dog

> here is a picture I took last week,


Where?

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## NickA

> my vibrator cost about 18,000baht and is petrol run,


 :Very Happy:  :Surprised:  :Smile:  :Wink:  :Surprised:  :Smile:  :Very Happy:

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## Marmite the Dog

Oh, there.  :Smile:

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## Eliminator

DD, I was asking, why don't they put in a wire mesh or screen on the face of the bricks before they put the layer of cement over it? I would think it would make the wall a lot stronger. All I've ever seen before was to put in nails or pins and then tie the mesh to it, then the cement.

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## dirtydog

Because the red bricks are so small so the render bonds to the wall really good anyway.

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## Cobby34

Very interesting thread.
To be fair to the Thai's & what gear they have available its not too bad.Just a few points I would like to add the sticks what DD mentioned for running the string line along are called profiles,the beams that go vertical are called column's.Another guy mentioned the column shutter's not being made of steel they are used in the West but are expensive & heavy,timber & ply is still used in the West & works just fine.Just a question for DD are these building's sitting on pile's.

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## dirtydog

> Just a question for DD are these building's sitting on pile's.


When you say piles I assume you mean driven in pilings, nope, 3 storeys and less they don't expect you to use pilings, generally the soil conditions here are rock hard, although I have to admit I did look at some land a couple of years ago for 250,000baht per Rai, 5 Rai in all, trouble is the soil was so fine and mainly sand that we would have had to have pilings just for a bungalow  :Sad: 

Also don't forget the wood is a lot heavier here in Thailand, plus it only lasts for about 3 pours, so steel would be the sensible option here on a reasonable size project, the hard bit is getting the reasonable sized projects though  :Sad:

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## dirtydog

Well things are moving on at a snails pace, for some reason they are down to about 5 staff, but it's defineately gonna be at least 3 stories high.

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## dirtydog

Well they are now 4 months into the project and down to about 5 staff, it is right hard to get staff at the moment as there is so much work about, yet it all started off so well, did the contractor take on more work and split his staff? Did the owner run out of money? All this and more I shall find out next week.

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## man with no head

Regarding those red bricks (I know they aren't load bearing): it looks like an enterprising person could just punch through them and help themselves to whatever's in there. Are they as weak as they look?

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## dirtydog

Once they are rendered off inside and out you will need a sledge hammer.

I did want to catch a picture before they done the beams, still they haven't started on the fronts of the other block yet.

So what's happening here we ask ourselves? This is the entrance or exit to, from the balconey, first up they lay the bricks upto where the height of the glass work will go, drill some holes and chuck in some rebar, stick a form round it and then pour the concrete to make the beam, leave the form work in and then brick up to the top where one of the main beams are.

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## man with no head

Is there any reason why instead of using concrete for the walls bricks are used instead? I know the bricks are merely dried in teh sun so it can't be for load bearing reasons. Less weight? Cheaper? Or the lack of wood making it difficult to pour forms?

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## Cobby34

> Is there any reason why instead of using concrete for the walls bricks are used instead? I know the bricks are merely dried in teh sun so it can't be for load bearing reasons. Less weight? Cheaper? Or the lack of wood making it difficult to pour forms?


I would hazzard a guess that its a lot cheaper,reinforced concrete is expensive.I do agree with you that the blocks/bricks they're using are crap,maybe DD could tell us the difference in price for a m2 of block work to a m2 of rc wall.At the end of the day why pay all the extra,if somebody wants to get into the property they will take out a window or door with the big hammer.

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## dirtydog

At a rough guesstimate I reckon reinforced concrete wall would cost about 2,500baht per square meter, brick and render is about 700baht.

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## dirtydog

They are now down to 3 staff so I don't think this project will be finished this year, as you can see in this picture they are now ready to pour the next lot of beams, looking at the tails on the rebar they really are too short to tie in more rebar for another floor, so I am assuming this will be a concrete roof, although why they are putting a balconey on it I have no idea.

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## Eliminator

DD, For the Mardi Gras parade next year.

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## Dougal

> although why they are putting a balconey on it I have no idea.


Launch pad for suicides?

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## lom

Well, you can never really be sure what Thais are gonna do.
We may think the rebar is to short to be joined with another one while they probably think that doesn't matter..

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## dirtydog

Well they now have about 12 staff but I think they must be way behind schedule, but hell aint that new sports Stadium in the UK way behind schedule, just a sad fact of life  :Smile: 
The concrete roof now has the concrete beams in place and loads of wooden supports, should in the next couple of days be ready to do the pour for that, I have seen a concrete pump lorry in and around Pattaya, I wonder if they will use that.



Here is the beam that will hide the roll down shutters, they will brick up to the top and then render it off.




And here we have the finished product, bricked up and rendered off.

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## Dougal

Not specifically a shop house question but I don't wnat to start a whole new thread.

I have seen lots of houses where four hinges have been used on the doors but they are not spaced evenly on the jam - usually one near the bottom, one somewhere near the middle and two close together at the top. Any idea why the chippie does it that way?

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## dirtydog

The doors are heavy and made of hardwood.

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## man with no head

Are the floors/ceilings using prefabs to save money or is it stronger that way once the cement layer is laid on top?

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## dirtydog

Save money  :Smile:

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## Dougal

> The doors are heavy and made of hardwood.


I know, but why put the hinges in a 2 1 1 pattern instead of evenly spaced out?

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## Marmite the Dog

> The doors are heavy and made of hardwood.


My shitty plywood doors have 4 hinges too....

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## dirtydog

Most of the strain will be on the top hinges.

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## jumbo

Exccellent DD I have enjoyed the build all be it on my snail paced computer hear in Brazil. It has teken almost as long to download the thread as it took to build the shophouse. Never mind another few weeks and I will be back in LOS.
Jumbo

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## man with no head

I really didn't know which thread to put this in:

Hurricane-proof homes too costly, experts say - Yahoo! News

...but here in the U.S. the type of construction used in Thai houses is deemed 'too expensive.'

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## dirtydog

As we can see here they are putting on a fake roof to make the front look pretty.



This is one from further down the road which is an exact copy of the shophouse project we have been following for the past few months.

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## man with no head

> As you can see in this picture they have used precast concrete beams for the floor or ceiling depending which way you look at it, these are about 5cms thick, you can see in this picture that they are supported with wood to stop them sagging or them breaking when they do the concrete pour on top of it, alas they always sag and if it is the roof area this is where water will saty due to the sagging in the middle.


How do the concrete precasts tie into the supports? Do they simply lay there and get held in place by the concrete pour on top? Overall how thick would the floor be counting the precast beams and surface concrete?

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## klongmaster

Hey that's nice...hard to belive it will finish up like that...

excellent thread DD...even a non-techie can follow most of the discussion...appreciate your effort in this...

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## dirtydog

> How do the concrete precasts tie into the supports?


They are just layed, then a rebar grid is made on top of that, then the pour is done, the pour generally is about 7cms thick which really isn't thick enough to avoid flexing, but with a general height variation of about 5 cms plus the 2cms needed for tiling that adds a bit more onto the thickness.

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## dirtydog

Well I had to visit the land yet again today and it seems that work is contineuing on the shop houses, they have done most of the rendering and are now doing the brickwork for the balconeys, you can see in the second picture bits of metal sticking out of the bricks, here they will stick some formwork around and do a concrete pour to strengthen it all up.

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## dirtydog

Here we have a picture of the form work being put up around the edges of the brickwork, into this the old concrete will be poured.



Next up render off most of the balconey, except the edges of course and start sticking bricks on it for that nice ornate look.

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## dirtydog

Well things are looking a bit tidier there and it looks like it is time for the balconey railings to go in.

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## dirtydog

Final touch up of paint, nice stainless railing and nice tinted sliding aluminum windows.

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## sunderlandstephen

Good thread keep it coming please.
Do they have official building regulations i ask because have seen buildings going up in Bangkok that looked like they would be taken out by the vibration of the sky train.

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## bruceveld

VERY useful thread!

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## algy

i built my own shop house and my footings were 1 meter cube hole as concrete at time was only 14 pounds a cube i just filled them solid .wont sink in the very soft ground

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## WhiteLotusLane

It's very educational, but can I just say what a godawful prehistoric brain dead type of ultra-cheapo shophouse that is?

This is what more decent shophouses look like.   Hint: The side units need WINDOWS in the walls, or else it ends up like a coffin inside.  Preferably not too many units attached to each other or for sure your neighbour will be some grimy machine shop with a paint-phobia and within a couple years it will look more delapidated than an Ayudthaya ruin.

Anyway: 







WINDOWS!!  :Smile:   That last one pretty much morphed into a decent home/office.

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## neilandmeechai

> Final touch up of paint, nice stainless railing and nice tinted sliding aluminum windows.


Very interesting and informative thread and very well documented. Thanks for showing and have a great day ....

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