#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Farming & Gardening In Thailand >  >  Farming Good or Bad Idea?

## andy62

Hello to all! I am a Newbie and you may think a little green around the edges?
I have been looking at the forums on TD for some time now, and just lately decided to join! mainly for understanding, Knowlage and inspiration? and maybe make a few good friends on the way.
Just a little background first for understanding the situation!
I have always been lucky to work all my life and pay my way. I have a grown up family in the UK. I have my own house and all the usual mod cons you would have here in the west.
I had money and had not been on holiday for many years, again due to family and work commitments. So first time to Thailand, and to return many times! Then I met my wife to be? Been maried over a year now! she has been to the UK with me, we have had many holidays around Thailand and Cambodia! I provide for my wife (apartment, motobike, a small amount of cash for her kids schooling, and a little bit of help for mama and papa). She works in the City for little money to help buy her some of the little things she may need, and to keep herself busy.
Then out of the blue NO WORK or very little!!! What to do now? I am not the kind of person to turn and run! I put the situation to my wife "Farming?" it seemed reasonable as she came from a farming background! and we had a small piece of land next to her sisters farm and not too far from her parents, whom I get on so well with, and they never ask me for anything, yes when I visit I take a few beers a bit of food. She always told me she would like to live back in the vilage! OK was the reply? Until the other sister in the city got wind of this, she wanted me to buy something in Pattaya "she says that is where the money is" But the wife says NO we will loose.
So I talked to her with my intentions to make a life in Thailand, first we would build a house, she has always been very modest and only wants a small house, just like a kabin we once stayed at near Ko Samet 'so out came the camara and lots of photo's' I priced up materials, think I can build for about 250,000bt. + money for furnishings! I would leave this up to her to be happy! But she wants like most Thai's a outside loo? Then would need to make a small living! now with the spare time I have had with little work prospects, I have been manufacturing and developing Aquaponic systems! at the cost of about 25,000bt per 8 bed unit, would build 4 for my needs, So maybe some income there! if not plenty of fish and veg for us and the family! Pigs, now thats a good idea, they take up little room! around 20 housed in sty's, hopefully the veg from the aquaponics will help feed them? And the wife is thinking well now, she tells me there is a need for a small shop on the little farm for selling produce and making food in the morning for the local farm workers and children has the school is close too.
I ask the wife how much do we need "money" per month to live on? 15,000bt she tells me! I was thinking a little more to be happy. So at let us say 20,000bt per month =240000 per year. 15 years would be a whooping 3,600,000bt this would be my cost on todays prices and no inflation, without making any money! until I would have the pension from the UK? Dificult but possible.
Now all is going OK! UNTIL the phone conversation the other day! we talk on the phone every day, "DARLING how many Baht you bring to Thailand?" my reply around 5,00000bt She says "too small need 10,00000bt"!!! Later that day I get the phone call "sorry I talk no good, with bad heart for you" pressure from work mates and the dreaded sister. I do belive me and the wife are strong together.

So is farming a good idia? will this work? will it make money?

Please no Pattaya comments on Bar Girls and so on, Thanks

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## Lostandfound

Just send her all your money now. Every penny and then find a job in the uk

It'll save you wasting several years of your life before you work out what you should know already

Youll be safer too.

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## nigelandjan

If this aint one of the many troll ups on here these days then good luck with it all mate ,,

if not then send your spare spondulix to me me me garuna na krup

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## andy62

Hi nigelandjan how are you! 
You have sent me a similar comment before? am I missing something! is there a problem with Thai wives? some marriages do work for the better. or is it my style of farming or outlook?

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## wasabi

For somebody who lives in the U.K your written English leaves much to be desired.Much of what you have written has huge holes in it.Stay away from farming.

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## IsaanAussie

Andy,
Farming here is straight out hard work. Success or failure depends on that work getting done. There are few if any Thai farmers in my area that would make 20,000baht/month. They simply don't need that much, nor are they prepared to work their tails off to get it. So you need to be sure you have the labour resources when needed.
Market access is critical. Your have to be able to sell what you produce without huge logistics or middle man costs.

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## andy62

nice to hear from you IssanAussie, I know it is the same in my wife's area! A member of the family I visited, sells around four pigs a month but has the middle man taking his cut, they find this easyer, even that they get less!

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## can123

:dont feed the troll: 

 :dont feed the troll: 


 :Sorry1: 


Just my " idia".

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## andy62

^^^^
Why would we do this! Would we do this to the wife in the west?
Is this the easy way out!! to have no heart.

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## andy62

IssanAussi

Market access is critical. You have to be able to sell what you produce without huge logistics or middle man costs.

I agree with what you say here, something I know I need to learn, and fast for this venture to work.
Again I have no problem with putting in the hard work! and will hopefully have the helping hands when the time is needed.
I am not new to Bussiness, but this will be new in Thailand.
I have said work is slow in the Uk? It has been like this many times before 
(not for this lenth of time) I have my own small bussiness here with four staff, sub-contracting to the Oil companys. I have just lost out on the re-contract for Esso but next week I have work for BP. If I do this venture in Thailand I am able to return for the avalible work in the UK.
I wanted to do the farming when older, but then I may not be able to put in the work, and I would like to be hands on! And have the time to spend with my wife.

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## crepitas

...bit of a rambler eh mate..my old eyes and cognitive abilities had a hard time with the post.

So apart from your somewhat irrelevant detail to your question. I would say yes. While there are few restrictions to what you can do here it is a hard row to hoe atleast in the early stages.
As IA says farming is far from the Walter Mitty inspired passive income source which some newbies imagine. ( myself included)...
Lots of your time involved and many frustrations with labour,commodity pricing,marketing,theft  etc. ie.hard to be a _gentleman_ farmer.
You _will_ need to acquire some modicum of basic business acumen.

You don't mention purchasing the land or what type,size or location?

Chucking money over the wall to your _al fresco_ squatting spouse to build the house etc?....bad idea.

Been mentioned many times on threads......you have to be there....unless you want us to be reading  your future _disaster_ sob story posts .....even then shit _will_ happen .. :bananaman:

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## andy62

Hi Crepitas, only have small land about 5 rai, but ideal for my plan for a small house, and the aquaponics! yes it would be better to make a life and be there.

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## Rural Surin

Farming.

Ummmm....
Success and failure would depend on what you want out of it.
And....most certainly what sort of agriculture/horticulture one is looking to get into.

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## mike123ca

Is it possible for the OP to do the same type of work here that he was doing in England?
If you could not do the same work here, can your work experience be used in the oil and gas industry offshore? I think he has more options in his career. 
If you really want to live and farm then go for it.

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## andy62

Good morning to you Rural Surin
I am strongly thinking of Aquaponics! I have been studying and developing a system here in the UK for some time now! I have been useing the greenhouse and uping the temperatures to near the same as in Thailand, and as a prototype, had some failures! Such as too hot for some plants and fish, and the balance for PH levels, But now got it well sorted. At the moment growing fruit and veg at a rapid rate. Some veg only taking 30 days! and with the 8 bed system have about 300 plants and up to 250 fish.

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## IsaanAussie

Andy, 
What Crepitas mentioned is very true, you have to be here for it to work. You mentioned aquaponics and travelling back to the UK as work was available. Aquaponics is complex in my opinion so I can't see it being easy for most uneducated Thais to undertake during your periods of absence. Those that have the basic plumbing and chemistry knowledge, can research issues that arise and find the supplies needed are unlikely to work for normal wages on a farm. 
I also liken my own newbie time here to being Walter Mitty. What was I thinking? Despite all the promises, (made to keep you happy) things just don't happen or run out of steam, you must have a fallback plan which is limited to what you can achieve yourself if all else fails. Just look at me! My wife and I are it for all the day today stuff, every day. Of course that includes the marketing, sales and value adding.
I suppose what I am saying is you are either all-in, boots and all, or you are an observer supplying the funds and let others decide how they are spent.

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## Pragmatic

> not too far from her parents, whom I get on so well with, and they never ask me for anything


See how well you get on with them if your money dried up? 



> when I visit I take a few beers a bit of food


 Do you think they'll do for you if you fell on hard times?

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## Rigger

Leave the farming to the Thais, if you follow through with the plan of farming and making money i think you will lose. Forget about the village and wasting your money as it sounds like you can't afford to live here anyway not to any real standard.
Make yourself happy not the wife and the family or you will be chewed up and spat out.
May seem a bit hard but have seen many come and go trying to do as you are.
Go buy a condo in pattaya it would be the best for your future.

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## andy62

IssanAussie
I do enjoy your good wisdom, how many years have you been farming in Thailand? I also agree what Crepitas as said to me. I would like to be hands on and change my life! hopefully for the better. Me and the wife get on so well, but it is early days? She belives in me for what I propose to do! but she says why can so few Thai's not make farming work? Her sister does OK! Husband tending to the sugar and she small livestock poultry. She would help with the aquaponics and I am sure would do well. Pigs if I had 20 to start, 5 at at monthly intervals, so after 4 months would have 4 for sale! how much would the sale value be? would I be wrong to expect 8000bt

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## andy62

Rigger Please? Its how much money I would be willing to put into the new venture! not what I can't afford. I have the condo in Pattaya! its OK for when I am there for holiday by the sea?

Pragmatic who knows what life will hand you?

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## peterpan

It is said about Thais that they don't do anything well, but they do it very cheaply, trying to beat them at their own game (living dirt poor) off a  few acres. 
Not impossible but difficult. try telling you neibours you are going to keep pigs, even the hardest of scroungers will disown you.

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## Rigger

> Rigger Please? Its how much money I would be willing to put into the new venture! not what I can't afford. I have the condo in Pattaya! its OK for when I am there for holiday by the sea?
> 
> Pragmatic who knows what life will hand you?


Well up to you but all I see is wasted money if you think you will move in and make money on farming, if living like a isaan farmer is what you want, your story reads like a fcuk up waiting to happen.

 :Smile:

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## toddaniels

I'd hafta agree either this is a troll post or the O/P's proverbial "rose colored glasses" are still firmly in place. I'd probably call you a ไก่อ่อน, their term for a "greenhorn", but any way you slice it that term is better than what the thais will call you; โง่เหมือนควาย (dumb as a water buffalo).

You're gonna be hard pressed to find any Thai who's gonna put in the labor to make the kind of money you're imagining. Especially as it's not their money which would be lost if it goes sideways on you. If you don't make a Thai have a vested interest (as in kicking in some dosh of their own), they have a very cavalier attitude towards "foreign capital investment" and ANY return on investment. That you'd be using their land isn't enough incentive to make them step up and see something thru with any degree of responsibility..  It just ain't gonna play out that way, no matter how sweetly sugar coated the shit they're feeding you is..   

You seem to have NO farming background, other than experimenting with Aquaponics on a small scale in the Uk.  Given your somewhat sketchy grasp of English, I'd imagine you possess NO Thai language skills to speak of. Still you're gonna go to a one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere surrounded by your Thai wife's family and try to make a go of farming. all the while NOT being able to communicate with them except thru your wife as a translator? That is just bat-shit crazy.. 

You ain't gonna change how your extended Thai family does things EVER.  Their answer to every good "first world", "common sense" idea about changing how things are done will be; "we've done it this way forever". Followed up by; "you're not Thai you can't understand". It is my personal experience that Thais are some of the most bull-headed narrow minded people when it comes to changing how things have always been done into doing things differently.  This is not a problem related to farming but exists in every facet of their society. A thai has a fish pond where the fish start to die, do they test the water? NO they run to the temple and pray that the fish stop dying, and eventually they do, problem solved, the thai way...

I think you're just blowin' smoke up your own ass with your pipe dreams.  Still, face it, you ain't gonna be the first foreigner who washed up here, married a thai and lost his shirt on a  "I'm gonna be a farmer" scheme.  The success stories in an endeavor like you're dreaming of are definitely few and far between and the failures are endless.

I do wish you good luck, please heed the words of the poster known as "IsaanAussie"..  In fact find every post he's ever made on every Thailand related forum and read them, each and every one.

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## Rigger

Andy
I don't write this to be smart or mean I write it as I have lived in isaan for many years and watch many try and do what you are suggesting and have seen them all fade away.
My wife also has a few farms, rice and fish, shop. And I couldn't live for a week on what they make a year. But what they do is support the family in food and a small amount of cash for fuel and cloths, power, water.
As for pigs read the threads on here about pigs again had a few try and lose there shirts on pigs.

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## andy62

Peterpan

Near the mark there! If it can be done? Then with little expence anyone can do it! Like you say not impossible. improvment = better life style

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## Albert Shagnastier

> Rigger Please?


 :Smile: ......

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## beazalbob69

I have to agree with most everyone else on here it's not as easy as it seems. I too am a newbie living in Thailand came here without too much money. Wife and I been married for 5 years been here for 7 months now. We have farms (mostly cassava) about 35 rai, a small village mini mart that is open 7 days a week about 16 hours a day, wife makes fried dough every morning and sells it outside the shop plus other odds and ends and we still don't make enough money to live here comfortably in western terms.

I will have to return to the US soon to work some more and probably her too but it will only be for a few months at a time as the wifes family can take care of stuff here until we get back but I realize that they will not do it as hard as we do but is ok as long as they keep it going until we return.

I say go for it! but don't think it will be easy as it most certainly will not.

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## IsaanAussie

> IssanAussie ... how many years have you been farming in Thailand? ... Her sister does OK! ...small livestock poultry. She would help with the aquaponics ... Pigs if I had 20 to start, 5 at at monthly intervals, so after 4 months would have 4 for sale! how much would the sale value be? would I be wrong to expect 8000bt


I have been farming here for 5 years, spent 9 years here prior doing other things as well as a lot of farm planning. 
Thais do as well as they want in farming IMHO. Until recently most seem to live within their means but with pickups and tractors being bought in the hope that they can be kept busy it seems many are making the same mistakes as many farangs.
Poultry is a good idea. I had 30 odd RIR layers and they keep us in eggs as well as those we sold at that level we made a tiny profit.
No disrespect meant but don't push too much of the aquaponics operation on your wife if you aren't here. Most Thais here will leave maintenance issues to the people they hire. Unless she knows the system and its operation extremely well so she can explain it to the help, you are liable to come back to a patched up nightmare.
Pigs, ummm. Think this one through carefully. Currently prices are at what I would call a sustainable level and managed properly good piglets grown out to 100kg should be revealing a profit of around 1,000 baht per head, perhaps more. But check the local conditions. Who keeps pigs near you, how many in a batch, what prices are they getting and when are the peaks and troughs in the market. The usual peaks are around New Year through Songkran and below Lent. Thai growers will tend to raise one batch to be ready around those peaks rather than every month. For a breeder, than the monthly flow must be maintained to get sow productivity.
With 20 pigs in 4 batches of 5, means 4 pens. 10 pigs in one pen takes little more work than 5. 20 in one larger pen is less work again and broadens your market to include professional buyers. Again it is a balancing game to suit market conditions.

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## Rigger

> Originally Posted by andy62
> 
> 
> Rigger Please?
> 
> 
> ......


 :Gay:   .........

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## Ceburat1

I do farming and aquaculture for myself as a hobby.  If I could get all of my food for free I would feel as tho I had made a profit.  Now that I am older and recently having osteoporosis problems the work does not get done or you must pay for labor.  I love plants and working in the yard/garden.  My advise is: DO IT FOR FUN. DO NOT DREAM OF PROFIT CAS WHEN YOU WAKE UP YOU WILL CRY.

For fun/hobby - My wife and I have a pond that is 8 X 20 foot one meter deep. About from 300 to 500 talapia. I recently learned about "wicking beds". I have about 20 of them made from the round cement rings you see everwhere in Thailand.  I am happy with them so far. I have 8 aquaponics beds.  Having trouble adjusting the flow - I either get too much or too little.  I also have an inground garden with some raised beds.  What works best so far - Don't know. I only used an inground  garden for the first 5-6 years here and for sure that is not best unless one uses a ton or two of soil admendments plus bug/worm killers.

Good luck and stay away from Bangkok or anything south of there except for maybe a holiday.

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## andy62

Ceburat1 Thank you for your advise on the aquaponics? I am using Koi and a 8 raised bed system. had problems at first with the water flow, and with the bell syphons! now OK. sorry to hear of you illness. all the best.

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## andy62

IssanAussie
wives sister seems to do Ok with the ducks! sells the eggs well in the vilage, and the ducks for meat sell for about 200bt

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## IsaanAussie

MIL has a few ducks wandering around, will try one day when I get time to make a ramp for them to get in and out of the pond. They do a great job on the snails and other pests. Like to get back to having a few cows again as well, but not the little Isaan white ones again. 
A little of a lot of things is the plan.

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## andy62

This thread is my first! I hope it will not be my last? good advice and feed back.
Thank you all once again.

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## Pragmatic

Yeah, good luck Andy. I think you're going to need lots of it.  :Smile:

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## nigelandjan

Andy I am ok thanks and I did reply last night but I think it got lost in the ether.

I,m sorry to me it just reads like another troll , but if your genuine all I would say is no you wont earn a living at it , even more so with no background.

From what little I know about it all that is my conclusion mate , it might sound idyllic but in reality its far from .

We have 3 small rubber tree plantations + we grow a few rai of jasmine rice + soon I will be going into 49% 51% with my BIL into an internet cafe  and TBH ANYTHING other than pin money from all of it would suprise me ,, its a piffling amount just hobby money really . We also live a very modest lifestyle indeed , so anyone looking to " live " on it well good luck .

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## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by andy62
> ...


Nigger Please.

It's the way you see it - you faggot  :Smile:

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## jamescollister

Hi there Andy
May as well throw my 2 bits in.
Forget Aquaponics, unless you are investing big money, BOI type money.
Forget pigs, even the Thais out my way have given up on small pig farms, again unless you are inverting millions of dollars you can't compete. AI knows his stuff when it comes to pigs, go visit him and see the reality.
Forget ducks, had around 500 in a purpose build shed, Thai partner, their money my land, river frontage. Them ducks eat a lot, Thai seemed to think they could live off the river alone. No ducks now, but I have a free building.
Forget living in the sticks, this life suits very few people, most turn into alcoholic's or just pack up and walk away.

My advice, come over for 6 months, give it a try before making plans, look around, visit others, see if anything works. Look for an opening not done here, preferably in a field you know about. Do your home work  not only on the subject, but on the rulers here. No one cares about a farang with a hobby farm our small shop etc, but as sure as god made little green applies, if you start to make real money they will care. You need to be legal, VAT, taxes, permits and the list goes on depending on what you are doing.

I made the it and a few others have succeed, but they are thin on the ground, if it won't work in the west [minus the taxes ] it won't work here.
Not saying you can't make it, but on 5 rai you can't compete with a Thai who needs 20 or 30,000 Baht a year and you can't live like a Thai. Jim

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## nigelandjan

Good 2 bits there Jim ,, ^ hope your taking note Andy , from a man who,s been there and got a wardrobe full of T shirts

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## Rigger

> Originally Posted by Rigger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Albert Shagnastier
> ...


Please I haven't been a faggot since the last time  :Smile:

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## glennb6

andy62, 
I know nothing of your farming intentions or it's viability but my observations are this;
- live the village life before committing unless you've already got that tee-shirt.
- I think you might need to add a decimal place to the amt of baht you plan to bring in to start up and allow for inflation in your calculations.
- unless you're gifted at language and assimilating upcountry thai culture, quite a bit of everything you will want to do will have to be done THROUGH your wife. She will have to be 100% on board with your plan and follow your instructions 100%, at least as you would expect any manager to. Is she a business minded person? Can she do this after you've had an inevitable married life fight?
- it's been my experience (as well as a number of other falang friends living in upper shitholeville), that wives prefer to be seen as 'mia-falang' versus as a working wife saddled with considerable responsibility and stress placed upon them. YMMV with yours but this is not uncommon.
- you as a business owner will be significantly removed from the direct line of command and control here due to language, culture, and maybe doing something out of the ordinary which concerns the locals, and you will need to put up with lots of nonsensical thai methods often contrary to your common sense ways.

Just my few cents and it's certainly not a blanket statement, chokdee!

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## stickmansucks

Do it but don't grow anything that all other ESAN farmers can do ! Grow what is more difficult to find in Thailand...

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## IsaanAussie

A few personal comments on these last two posts.
Mia Farang is a very real concept here. Many farang wives have told us that local people will not buy their produce. The reason given is they do not have to "help" your wife because she is rich already! My wife works as hard as our neighbours but still is greeted with this by a few in our village. 
I disagree in part with SMSs view to grow things that are foreign to the area. Learn any lessons you can first from those in the village and grow the standard stuff this will give you a baseline for comparison. If you invest the time and interest in what and how they do things, you will gain many friends. 
Venture off privately and kick a goal, they will react and a jealous village bamboo telegraph can do a lot of harm. So show them what you are doing as well. Explain how it works as well.

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## andy62

IssanAussie I thank you again for your good wisdom and your knowlage! I am so happy I started this Thread, If not just for myself, for all the other would be falang farmers out there?
I take my hat off to you and your understanding wife! work is hard for you, and for small money gain! but I hope you are both happy for work and life satisfaction.
When I come back to Thailand I hope, I would be welcome to visit and say hello to you and see your work in progress? I will provide beers.

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## jamescollister

Andy, have a look on barhtandsold, you maybe surprised at what good land in a good location costs.
Look outside the square, but you are taking a chance, language and culture are a massive problem.
Thailand is no longer a cheap place, even in remote parts, one of those resorts I wrote about on the Mun river near Ubon, small 3 or 4 rai, 7 or 8 rooms up for sale, 30,000,000 Baht.
Good luck if you try, but go in with your eyes open, sometimes dreams become nightmares. Jim

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## Rural Surin

> Andy, have a look on barhtandsold, you maybe surprised at what good land in a good location costs.
> Look outside the square, but you are taking a chance, language and culture are a massive problem.
> Thailand is no longer a cheap place, even in remote parts, one of those resorts I wrote about on the Mun river near Ubon, small 3 or 4 rai, 7 or 8 rooms up for sale, 30,000 Baht.
> Good luc kif you try, but go in with your eyes open, sometimes dreams become nightmares. Jim


Indeed, Jim...

Some well-intended ventures will certainly turn nightmarish if one doesn't have a firm grip of wtf they're doing....

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## andy62

jamescollister very good advise, like the many replys from TD members. I have seen the rising costs with the time I have recently spent in Thailand which makes doing what I am proposing more difficult to do with little money I am willing to invest (I am thinking with my head) not with my dick like one or two members think? but all in all I am happy with the replys. Yes I do have a heart for my wife and would like the best I can possibly do for her and me together. Maybe the next Tread I do will read "do's and dont's for the Thai wife".
Sorry to some readers for my poor English.

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## wasabi

My Apologies,thought it was a spoof to start off with. Best of luck with your new venture,Gentleman farmer.

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## benny628

Do it for fun and you won't be disappointed and grow what you can eat

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## supernovadw

I cannot see it working to be honest sorry mate. One of the main points is where you will be living....my wife's parents live in the middle of no where and the longest I can stand being there is two days...there is just nothing at all to do or see what so ever! I can speak the language fairly well but there's only so much conversation you can drum up with the locals....another thing is the standard of life which is very difficult for a westerner to genuinely adapt too.

Farming wise I think you could make so money but you would certainly have to go the extra mile, it would concern me that you don't have any experience for a start unfortunately. 

Something that no one seems to have mentioned is the possibility of fattening up buffalo's as there is a fairly decent profit in that but the turn around time is slow.

Where is the nearest city to where you are intending on moving to as you may probably find it very very easy to get a job teaching English if its a far flung place with no farangs around, this of course would give you a much better wage than the vast majority of people in the local area and of course pay for your living costs, you could then do a little farming on top as a top up.

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## poorfalang

Andy
i have been around the block for a while like many others here, 
what i would like to add is 
house?
hold the money, be here and build it, and don't get the extended family involved, 

farming?
yes, you can make money, enough to live on? yes, but depends of your life style, are you going to tesco everyday and buy cheese, bacon, bread, pasta, and all the western stuff to eat on a daily basis? then no, 5 rai of land ?aquaponics? no i don't believe it.
yes, but how much it cost to fertilize and labor blah blah, rubbish to those who say that, they are the ones that come to live in issan and still want the same life style as they have in whatever shit hole they  come from.
YOU CAN MAKE A PROFIT FROM FARMING enough for you to live? not sure





> I don't write this to be smart or mean I write it as I have lived in isaan for many years and watch many try and do what you are suggesting and have seen them all fade away.
> My wife also has a few farms, rice and fish, shop. And I couldn't live for a week on what they make a year. But what they do is support the family in food and a small amount of cash for fuel and cloths, power, water.
> 
> As for pigs read the threads on here about pigs again had a few try and lose there shirts on pigs.


Bullshit my friend rigger :Smile: 
what happen is most likely to be the falang make pig house( brother build it for double of what it should be, then falang buy piglet(s) too expensive because he knows nothing about pigs and does not want to educate him self on that, and is following the signs of extended family, then comes the feed, wrong feed, wrong quantities and brand, then comes disease, injection +  isolation(minimum) but falang never fought about that before and the extended family never mentioned that, because they are thai and all they do to sick pigs is knife in throat and a few bottles of lao khao.
then falang looses and goes to TeakDoor to say pigs don't work,  :Smile: 





> For somebody who lives in the U.K your written English leaves much to be desired


maybe andy62 is not engrit, maybe dutch? :Smile: 

all the best

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## charleyboy

Have you ever thought about making cheese?

Here's a link for you.

 (Cheese Making Workshop)https://teakdoor.com/the-kitchen/126746-cheese-making-workshop.html

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## IsaanAussie

Well I'll bet getting that off the chest makes you feel better PF. I'm smiling. I tend to lose interest when the guy telling me he is being ripped off by the family is eating his daily steak and chips at the local farang eatery. 
Even worse are the guys that operate by remote control. Always complaining that budgets are being blown while he is away, hard at work. They have sought advice from someone also remote and now know everything is being stuffed up.
But the ones that take the cake are the financiers who say "They (nice and personal) have everything they need. I fail to understand why they don't *JUST*.... WOW I hate that word!

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## IsaanAussie

I just had a look at that cheese making course poll and I wondered how much interest there would be for similar courses in farming topics? Interesting.

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## Rigger

> Bullshit my friend rigger
> what happen is most likely to be the falang make pig house( brother build it for double of what it should be, then falang buy piglet(s) too expensive because he knows nothing about pigs and does not want to educate him self on that, and is following the signs of extended family, then comes the feed, wrong feed, wrong quantities and brand, then comes disease, injection + isolation(minimum) but falang never fought about that before and the extended family never mentioned that, because they are thai and all they do to sick pigs is knife in throat and a few bottles of lao khao.
> then falang looses and goes to TeakDoor to say pigs don't work,


Pretty sure there is a thread on here that bigman started about his pig farm. Other than for your own consumption i don't know why any farang would get involved with farming. if you cant afford to live here with out trying to make money from farming, DONT

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## good2bhappy

farms are good for walking with the dogs

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## Pragmatic

> if you cant afford to live here with out trying to make money from farming, DONT


Not just farming, in my opinion.

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## Khonwan

Andy62, of course theres money in farming. After 17 years, or so, farming in Thailand, I am now a gentleman farmer at 53 years old. By that I mean whilst I am no longer physically engaged in farming (due to chronic back-pain), I am still involved in the macro-management of my 210-rai farm and still enjoy the earnings thereof.

I have no overseas earnings; my farm income was my only income for some years but is now a substantial minority of my income. Although no longer my main earner, my farm income (profit) exceeds 1 million baht per year.

5 rai of land is miniscule for cropping but could support livestock farming such as pig breeding or chicken/egg production. You will require a lot of capital and a costly learning curve to make it pay though. You are probably under-capitalised for this. 


My suggestion, if you have access to plentiful and constant water, would be to consider using the 5 rai for market gardening, growing a range of vegetables for retail and/or wholesale. Your aquaponics projects have probably given you some experience of growing veg so thats a start at least. Although I have no experience in market gardening, I know it will require a very high degree of commitment in terms of your daily labour.

Rgds
Khonwan

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## poorfalang

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by poorfalang
> Bullshit my friend rigger
> what happen is most likely to be the falang make pig house( brother build it for double of what it should be, then falang buy piglet(s) too expensive because he knows nothing about pigs and does not want to educate him self on that, and is following the signs of extended family, then comes the feed, wrong feed, wrong quantities and brand, then comes disease, injection + isolation(minimum) but falang never fought about that before and the extended family never mentioned that, because they are thai and all they do to sick pigs is knife in throat and a few bottles of lao khao.
> then falang looses and goes to TeakDoor to say pigs don't work,
> Pretty sure there is a thread on here that bigman started about his pig farm. Other than for your own consumption i don't know why any farang would get involved with farming. if you cant afford to live here with out trying to make money from farming, DONT


I call that BS  :Smile:  
of course you can make a living from farming.
what you think my idea of farming is? 
one man and his wife working tha land 7 days a week 
you bastard 
red on ya way :Smile:

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## jamescollister

Rigger, bit of a generalization there, may as well say if you have to work in the west to live, why say there.
People  have different reasons to be here farming, or trying to farm, leaving  behind dead end jobs or high stress jobs. Wanting to be their own man,  not working for the man. 
Better life style in a rural environment, not a big city, escaping a life that has no meaning.

Most  will fail because they came with just a dream, dreams are not real, but  some come with a plan and an understanding of what is needed to make  that plan work. Same goes for all ventures here, farangs buy bars,  restaurants, resorts, but have no idea of what they are buying or doing.

If  you have a good business plan, the time and money to make it work and  when I say time, may be years before you turn the corner into profit.  You can succeed, most just have a pocket full of money and believe the  get rich quick story.

Things that make money are worth money,  same as in the west, farming of any type is a business and a long term  investment, 10 pigs won't keep you in the west nor here. Same goes for  ducks, chickens, fish or 10 rai of rice.

Anyone thinking of  trying needs to do the numbers, it won't be cheap. There are lots of  opportunities in Issan in farm related businesses, but they cost to buy  or set up, the way of the world. Jim

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## poorfalang

> Rigger, bit of a generalization there, may as well say if you have to work in the west to live, why say there.
> People have different reasons to be here farming, or trying to farm, leaving behind dead end jobs or high stress jobs. Wanting to be their own man, not working for the man. 
> Better life style in a rural environment, not a big city, escaping a life that has no meaning.
> 
> Most will fail because they came with just a dream, dreams are not real, but some come with a plan and an understanding of what is needed to make that plan work. Same goes for all ventures here, farangs buy bars, restaurants, resorts, but have no idea of what they are buying or doing.
> 
> If you have a good business plan, the time and money to make it work and when I say time, may be years before you turn the corner into profit. You can succeed, most just have a pocket full of money and believe the get rich quick story.
> 
> Things that make money are worth money, same as in the west, farming of any type is a business and a long term investment, 10 pigs won't keep you in the west nor here. Same goes for ducks, chickens, fish or 10 rai of rice.
> ...


know having that said it leaves me with nothing to add :Smile: 
spot on in every way, 
over and out

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## Rigger

> Rigger, bit of a generalization


yes it was




> I call that BS  
> of course you can make a living from farming.
> what you think my idea of farming is


Most Thais cant with out help and support and neither can most farangs but carry on  :Smile:

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## poorfalang

^ it is working for some, its easy and relaxing. :Smile:  once you know the trade.

others they cannot do nothing other than work somewhere remote for 9 months then come to Thailand and splash for 3 months,  :Smile:

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## Rigger

> ^ it is working for some, its easy and relaxing. once you know the trade.
> 
> others they cannot do nothing other than work somewhere remote for 9 months then come to Thailand and splash for 3 months,


Yes farming in Thailand is easy everyone should do it.  :Smile: 
Who works remote for 9 months ?

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## Khonwan

Cropping is actually pretty easy if you have sufficient available labour; livestock is much more demanding. Ive had a lot of experience here in both. As for Thais: their chance of succeeding in farming increases with scalejust like we _farangs_!

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## IsaanAussie

Rigger, several people here have posed the same view on this thread, that is, it ain't easy but it can be done. This view has been gained from direct personal experience. Can I ask you to share the reason for your apparent negativity? 
By the way, my area seems to have become very popular with Norwegian guys. Who works away for 9 months of the year? Almost all of them are on the oil rigs at the moment and will be there for months to come. Party time when they get back!

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## jamescollister

> Cropping is actually pretty easy if you have sufficient available labour; livestock is much more demanding. Ive had a lot of experience here in both. As for Thais: their chance of succeeding in farming increases with scalejust like we _farangs_!


Very true and rubber is even easier once you are up and running [if you have the labor] too easy in fact, it's just an inspecting and keeping an eye on things.
All I do is set the rolling machines once a week, 30 minutes.

The only real work I do, is side line stuff, planting coconuts earlier this year and will be planting cashew nut trees, if it ever stops raining. 
More about exercise than money, but they will all add to the kitty in years to come.

When that's done I may have a go at AIs mushrooms or try something new.
We were all brought up to work, just here I work and do things when I want to, not when the boss tells me. 

Have 2 young kids and am a 24/7 dad, if they want to go for a splash in the local cascades for a swim, that's up to me, not a time card. 
Wouldn't change it for the best job in the world, as that would be a job, this is a life.
Sometimes it can be hard and make you want to bang your head against a tree, but it's  ours and when I stand and look at our little factory or rows of rubber, newly planted coconut grove, I know I did that. My kids will have that after I'm gone, not just a house to divide. They will have a village, that they will call home, no matter where they end up.

The best thing I ever did was take the chance to change, if it had failed, the only difference would have been, I would be in rented accommodation, not owned a house in the west. Jim

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## crepitas

Jim: My nieces planted cashew seed a few years back.. I transplanted the twigs about 6 months later....now have 5 trees.....wonder if I should have pruned lower branches as they are like huge bushes now...yes we have had a crop of cashews but most fed the birds  or something...read it is quite a performance to bring 'em to the edible state. 
Wife said she knew how and was going to harvest just for adding to her cooking...too late unfortunately.  :Smile: 

Just about to get some Betel nuts from one tree methinks...about 50 seeds planted  about 6 year ago....most came up but don't think they like being transplanted as have only about 10 maturing 2-6 metre trees now..... make for nice palms beside our road though.

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## Rigger

> Rigger, several people here have posed the same view on this thread, that is, it ain't easy but it can be done. This view has been gained from direct personal experience. Can I ask you to share the reason for your apparent negativity? 
> By the way, my area seems to have become very popular with Norwegian guys. Who works away for 9 months of the year? Almost all of them are on the oil rigs at the moment and will be there for months to come. Party time when they get back!


I have never said it was impossible, but going into it with out much land and money as the original post suggested his chance of successes is slim. Why like this because over many years living in isaan I have seen nearly all fail.
Most rig workers work 6 months a year.

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## poorfalang

> Rigger, several people here have posed the same view on this thread, that is, it ain't easy but it can be done. This view has been gained from direct personal experience. Can I ask you to share the reason for your apparent negativity? 
> By the way, my area seems to have become very popular with Norwegian guys. Who works away for 9 months of the year? Almost all of them are on the oil rigs at the moment and will be there for months to come. Party time when they get back!


i wonder what the missus do while they are away? :mid: 
farming(with the brother) :Smile:

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## poorfalang

> I have never said it was impossible, but going into it with out much land and money as the original post suggested his chance of successes is slim. Why like this because over many years living in isaan I have seen nearly all fail.
> Most rig workers work 6 months a year.


What would be to you, fail at farming?
never be able to have a hilux? 
never seem to have money? 
live a wooden old house?
ride a shit old motorbike?
i mean i don't get it when you say FAIL
how can you fail, nearly all things you can plant will give you a fruit even without caring for it (just) 
some other plants such as cane sugar for example,
you can plant one rai of it for about 1.500,
leave it alone for 11 months and you can still get 8-9tons out of it, equaling about 8-9000 baht 
take rice for example, two years ago one of my neighbors left the rice alone after throwing the seed, why? i don't know, it was full of weeds, had no fertilizer but when the harvest time came he got the machine in harvested it and sold it, ok shit looking rice, probably no nutrients in it, small harvest, but that is not the point, he still got more than he spent.
Regarding the OP of course i agree with you, its looking slim, but even 5 rai you will make some money, even if is just rice, will it pay for his living? surely not,
unless you do ganja or something like that,
So Rigger (is that what you do for a living) out in the oil rig for 6- 9 months?
have you tried farming  :Smile: ?

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## IsaanAussie

> i wonder what the missus do while they are away?
> farming(with the brother)


An interesting question indeed. The answer depends on the individuals but you can tell by the relationship between farang and mai farang when they are together which way it is liable to go. Given enough money to continue the perceived farang lifestyle in hubbys absence most are content to play Lady around town. Without money or face some drift back to their old stomping grounds. 
"Brothers In fArms", hang on that was an album! The music was great but you would have to be blind not to see that your wife was getting more than a helpful hand on the farm. It happens, one here is keep safe while she is alone by a local policeman who has made it his mission in life to protect several women while the cat is away.

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## IsaanAussie

Hey Jim that duckhouse of yours would be a good shroomery. 
Also been meaning to ask you if that organic fertiliser your FIL bought worked out OK?

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## jamescollister

> Hey Jim that duckhouse of yours would be a good shroomery. 
> Also been meaning to ask you if that organic fertiliser your FIL bought worked out OK?


The duck house was what I was thinking for the mushrooms and no the alleged fertilizer is crap. Not going to hurt, but am buying real fertilizer to make up the lack of content in the other stuff. Cost me more in the long run than buying the real stuff in the first place, told the FIL never buy anything for the plantations without asking me first. He thinks he is doing right and getting a good deal, because the salesman says it magic stuff, we will be getting aluminum cladding on the house next. Jim

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## Khonwan

> Originally Posted by Khonwan
> 
> 
> Cropping is actually pretty easy if you have sufficient available labour; livestock is much more demanding. Ive had a lot of experience here in both. As for Thais: their chance of succeeding in farming increases with scalejust like we _farangs_!
> 
> 
> Very true and rubber is even easier once you are up and running [if you have the labor] too easy in fact, it's just an inspecting and keeping an eye on things.
> All I do is set the rolling machines once a week, 30 minutes.
> 
> ...


 Hi Jim


  My wife didnt really have much farming experience (and I had none) so she reluctantly followed me and my dream. She had been used to me providing for her so I changed the game rules. I refused to buy life assurance on myself and explained that her future security lay in learning to make farming work alongside me so that she could carry on in the event of my demise. She didshe got used to itshe now enjoys it. There would be zero financial consequences to my family were I to die. They now have a solid asset base to prosper from. 



  Having achieved my dream, Im now working to help her achieve her dream. We will settle in Scotland from 2015 for at least five years where we will establish a catering business and settle our youngest into high school. Our eldest will continue with her Thai open university course (that shes already started as a M5 high school student), along with helping Mum in the business. Well return here for three months every year to harvest and replant, and attend to other business. Once she gets her UK passport (or even Scottish passport, hopefully!) after 5 years, well probably split our time between the two countries.


  Rgds
  Khonwan

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## jamescollister

Khonwan, similar story, wife' no farmer, but a school teacher, the only thing I had ever grown were tomatoes before.

Kids are young, will see what happens over the years, but we have already done the Australia bit, kids born there. Wife has no interest in returning to live and do the dreaded  work.
Like you I have been taking less and less responsibility in the day to today running of the plantations and factory. Wife is gaining confidence dealing with the buyers and workers, even threatening her older brother with the sack if he didn't do as told, She has to learn,  if or when I die the family will want it divided out among them, after all Thai girls do as daddy says. Jim

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## expattaffy

> Hi Crepitas, only have small land about 5 rai, but ideal for my plan for a small house, and the aquaponics! yes it would be better to make a life and be there.


5 Rai and you want to go into farming! Forget it mate, my wife and I have 15 rai and have been farming rice for 7 years, my final conclusion is it is not worth it. The small profit that is acceptable to Thais will be peanuts to you :Confused:

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## IsaanAussie

Agreed the profit per rai is low, but not worth it? I think it is. To my wife and family it is an obligation and the rice sustains them. Occasionally they sell some to meet the bills but profit is not the motivation. 
Our farm is a total of 16 rai, much the same. Neither of us will ever make more than a Thai farmers income at this size purely with rice or any other crop. But there are other posters on this topic with more land that make a decent living.
5 Rai of something other than rice or an integrated mix of crops, animals and fruit can  produce a better income, but it is very labor intensive. Not for your retirement as most would define it.

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## Pragmatic

> Our farm is a total of 16 rai, much the same. Neither of us will ever make more than a Thai farmers income at this size purely with rice or any other crop. But there are other posters on this topic with more land that make a decent living.


They make more monies than you based on they own more land than you IA but in obtaining that land their expendature has been somewhat more so in proportion they don't make that much more than you proportionately. 
My missus has a nice little set up going doing money lending. She gets 10% per month and collects her interest daily from people that are known personally to her. She does loans up to 10,000 Baht per individual and she has no end of customers. She doesn't promote herself as a money lender and only gives when people approach her. I know 10% is high but it's the local rate and undercutting could provide problems. So why go the farming route when there are other easier options out there.

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## IsaanAussie

> Originally Posted by IsaanAussie
> 
> Our farm is a total of 16 rai, much the same. Neither of us will ever make more than a Thai farmers income at this size purely with rice or any other crop. But there are other posters on this topic with more land that make a decent living.
> 
> 
> They make more monies than you based on they own more land than you IA but in obtaining that land their expendature has been somewhat more so in proportion they don't make that much more than you proportionately. 
> My missus has a nice little set up going doing money lending. She gets 10% per month and collects her interest daily from people that are known personally to her. She does loans up to 10,000 Baht per individual and she has no end of customers. She doesn't promote herself as a money lender and only gives when people approach her. I know 10% is high but it's the local rate and undercutting could provide problems. So why go the farming route when there are other easier options out there.


I am afraid you are incorrect. I am just bumping along the bottom living from day to day financially, but as I said different things motivate different people. 
You are correct, small term high interest loans from "friends" is unfortunately often the only way village folk can obtain funding. Strictly illegal of course but it would seem that until commercial banks extend farming loans there must be an element of look the other way. With a majority of people reliant on farming, banks in my area apportion less than 3% of their loans to farming related activities.

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## Khonwan

Pragmatic, my costs per rai are, of course, much higher than a small-scale farmer. Why? The small-scale farmer provides all or most of the labour himself and does not account for the value of his own labour. When labour is accounted for, my costs per rai are cheaper since I can buy fertiliser and pesticides at cheaper bulk-purchase prices.


  10% per month is ruinously expensive. Fears of consequences in lending at less than this are simply excuses with no basis in fact, unless you/she can cite occasions of violence, in your area, against those who have attempted to lend at less than 10% per month. I had the same rubbish said to me, but having a bit more courage, I set my rate at 3% per month. That rate is still expensive but is less than the opportunity cost to me, since I’d make more by farming rented land in addition to my own land. My farming rented land would have a greater negative impact on other villagers than my provision of loans to them (at cheaper rates than would be otherwise available). Farmers borrowing at 3%pm can service their loans and still prosper.

  Which brings me to another point for the OP: Your 5 rai may be small, but what’s stopping you from renting 100 rai?

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## IsaanAussie

Half a dozen years ago, 3% per month was the going rate. I dabbled but the issue was the family members whose idea it was were too shy to make the collections. In and out very quickly for me, less than a year. Cut and run.
However there was one case that shows just how expensive this black market money is. The SIL lent a local some of my money. This person did not make one repayment but armed with chanote and signed police report I declared the game over, the principle was returned. No interest though. 10 years later the missing interest of a few thousand baht at settlement had grown to over 100K baht. Remember I am still holding the chanote and the paper for the BIB. 
An intermediate asks me if he can buy the chanote back so the lender can secure a new loan. This guy is a friend of mine and a family member of both my wifes and the borrower. He wants to know how much, mind you he has no real money either.
What would you do?

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## Khonwan

Hi IA. I know that we have chatted about this case before but, whilst I think I remember the outcome, I cannot recall the details of the original loan. So just relying on maths from the info here, the outstanding interest would have been 4,620 which grew at 36% pa, assuming annual compounding, to 100,000 after 10 years. Had the original debt been exactly one year old, the loan would have been for 12,833. I’m also assuming that the outstanding sum was now exactly 100k after exactly 10 years.

  It is very difficult for me to say what I would have done since it would depend on my relationship with all the actors. My reaction could range from not releasing the land-title until the 100k was paid, to releasing it for nothing. I would also consider the original loan-to-value of the security compared to the current value of the security, which will also have risen greatly over the ten years (perhaps 10-fold though not the 25-fold of the compounded interest. I might apply only simple interest and therefore ask for 46,200 in full settlement.

  As outrageously expensive as 100,000 is compared to an original outstanding sum of 4,620 is, it is mind-blowing to realise that at 10%pm (rather than 3%pm), the outstanding sum now due after 10 years would be 42,761,476 (which assumes that the original outstanding interest would have been 15,400).

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## Pragmatic

> Remember I am still holding the chanote and the paper for the BIB.


Holding the land papers doesn't mean anything. Years ago I held land papers based on securing a loan, well my wife did. The loan didn't get paid back. We went to a good well known lawyer who said the land papers were useless unless the title owner sign them over. If they refuse and the case goes to court then we would still lose due to the time delay and legal fees. 
On top of that, even though we held the land papers there is nothing we could do to prevent the title holder to carry on farming the land. We were told to go to the land registration office and inform them in case the title holder tried to get another set of papers issued. A duplicate set of title papers cannot be issued without a police report and a policeman in attendance when applying.

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## Pragmatic

> 10% per month is ruinously expensive.


I agree, but I just stay out of it. It's her money. She takes the risks. I know it's illegal but even the local police borrow and pay the rate.

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## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by IsaanAussie
> 
> Remember I am still holding the chanote and the paper for the BIB.
> 
> 
> Holding the land papers doesn't mean anything. Years ago I held land papers based on securing a loan, well my wife did. The loan didn't get paid back. We went to a good well known lawyer who said the land papers were useless unless the title owner sign them over. If they refuse and the case goes to court then we would still lose due to the time delay and legal fees. 
> On top of that, even though we held the land papers there is nothing we could do to prevent the title holder to carry on farming the land. We were told to go to the land registration office and inform them in case the title holder tried to get another set of papers issued. A duplicate set of title papers cannot be issued without a police report and a policeman in attendance when applying.


Lost me a bit there Prag, don't know much about the money lending game, but thought it was illegal to be an unlicensed money lender. How could you go to court over the loan then. Jim

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## IsaanAussie

Khonwan,
Close enough mate, but the interest was calculated monthly so the initial sum was less and the final more. 
Pragmatic, 
Agreed but the second signed document was the police report. It acknowledged the loan and terms, and yes it was witnessed by the local police.

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## Khonwan

Hi Pragmatic. The land papers are actionable and very easily so if chanote and tax pre-paid. In the event of going to court, all expenses including legal fees are paid by the debtor.

Jim, my wife and I try every possible alternative (no threats or use of violence) rather than go to court. Despite this, we are currently engaged in our first court case against a debtor. Its a case of TIT: whilst unlicensed money lending is not legal, the loan agreement document forms are produced by the government for use by unlicensed money lenders and made available at many local shops and the courts most certainly do enforce these contracts all the time. The courts will not honour interest exceeding 15%pa but will still accept such suits and then reduce the interest payable. Many lenders get around this limitation by having their borrowers sign incomplete forms with no provision of a copy so that the post-inserted (just prior to going to court) loan figure will show the rolled-up total due. (We had not done this.)

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## jamescollister

> Hi Pragmatic. The land papers are actionable and very easily so if chanote and tax pre-paid. In the event of going to court, all expenses including legal fees are paid by the debtor.
> 
> Jim, my wife and I try every possible alternative (no threats or use of violence) rather than go to court. Despite this, we are currently engaged in our first court case against a debtor. Its a case of TIT: whilst unlicensed money lending is not legal, the loan agreement document forms are produced by the government for use by unlicensed money lenders and made available at many local shops and the courts most certainly do enforce these contracts all the time. The courts will not honour interest exceeding 15%pa but will still accept such suits and then reduce the interest payable. Many lenders get around this limitation by having their borrowers sign incomplete forms with no provision of a copy so that the post-inserted (just prior to going to court) loan figure will show the rolled-up total due. (We had not done this.)


Lean something new everyday. Don't think I will go into money lending, haven't got any. Jim

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## poorfalang

we lent 100.000 to the neighbor, MIL idea.
 were suppose to be paid 3000 per month after 2 years not even one baht, we were given,
after 3 years we got 1 rai of land from the woman and it is now worth 400.000, the shame is that the mother in law is the one that dealt with it and the 1 rai piece of land is on her name not the wifes, and she claims that she had so much hassle dealing with it that she should keep it, and the thing is that she is serious about it the bitch, so in the end we still lose that 100.000, and the rumor is that she already has a buyer that is offering 350.000 for it.
it is by the main road and the place has just become an amphur, hence the price  .
damn In Laws, Hate all of them :Smile:

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## Pragmatic

> we got 1 rai of land from the woman and it is now worth 400.000, the shame is that the mother in law is the one that dealt with it and the 1 rai piece of land is on her name not the wifes


I struggle to understand why your wife didn't have the papers transfered into her name? Surely your wife must have known what was going on?

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## IsaanAussie

> we lent 100.000 to the neighbor, MIL idea.
>  were suppose to be paid 3000 per month after 2 years not even one baht, we were given,
> after 3 years we got 1 rai of land from the woman and it is now worth 400.000, the shame is that the mother in law is the one that dealt with it and the 1 rai piece of land is on her name not the wifes, and she claims that she had so much hassle dealing with it that she should keep it, and the thing is that she is serious about it the bitch, so in the end we still lose that 100.000, and the rumor is that she already has a buyer that is offering 350.000 for it.
> it is by the main road and the place has just become an amphur, hence the price  .
> damn In Laws, Hate all of them


This should show the newbies that the way Thai people think is different to us. When they ask each other for help,it is either given or not and that is the end of it. MIL had an idea and needed 100K, you helped, finish. I'll bet in her mind you were never part of the deal. Just a source of funds. 
Every house in my mobhan keeps books recording what they give and what they get and where possible the scores are kept even.

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## poorfalang

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by poorfalang 
> we lent 100.000 to the neighbor, MIL idea.
> were suppose to be paid 3000 per month after 2 years not even one baht, we were given,
> after 3 years we got 1 rai of land from the woman and it is now worth 400.000, the shame is that the mother in law is the one that dealt with it and the 1 rai piece of land is on her name not the wifes, and she claims that she had so much hassle dealing with it that she should keep it, and the thing is that she is serious about it the bitch, so in the end we still lose that 100.000, and the rumor is that she already has a buyer that is offering 350.000 for it.
> it is by the main road and the place has just become an amphur, hence the price .
> damn In Laws, Hate all of them
> This should show the newbies that the way Thai people think is different to us. When they ask each other for help,it is either given or not and that is the end of it. MIL had an idea and needed 100K, you helped, finish. I'll bet in her mind you were never part of the deal. Just a source of funds. 
> Every house in my mobhan keeps books recording what they give and what they get and where possible the scores are kept even.


she is such a bitch and i do not hide that from no one even in my village everyone knows we don't get along, not bothered and others don';t seem to care much either.
for years while she lived with us she was always begging need this need that no money blah blah, in the end when shit hit the fan because of the other daughter that also lived with us, and was planning to make my house become her family house, they got pushed out all of them, no compassion from heartless crazy falang :Smile: 
guess what? for someone that had been crying for money for so many years all of a sudden found money for a new house,
yep strange and even my wife who could swear she had not even 100.000 in the bank was shocked.
that is not counting that one other rai as i talk above,
so she know has another house and a possible 350.000 in bank balance, not bad for a issan farmer that has only income from 15 rai of rice a year.
BITCH

Newbies don't fall for it, they will likely stitch you at some point.

best regards,
The heartless crazy falang (poorfalang) :Smile:

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## IsaanAussie

PF, relax. I reckon most of us has been pushed into helping out often just to shut them up. I personally took an ice age to realise that a no remains a no. Dont get angry, get even.
My MIL can be a catty old tart and as demanding as anyone else. But the last time she tried it on I told here I didnt have any money and couldn't help her any more. She was shocked and fell silent for months. When it came time to start the rice crop she asked if I would pay for preparation and seed, still no money Mum I said with a smile! She found it, had it, whatever. I'M FREE again. Our relationship has improved, her expectation level has reduced. 
While you stay angry at the injustice of it all, they win Face. Laugh to them and they lose and will stop.

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## Khonwan

Been there, done thathave had that done! I can identify with this discussion. After many years of learning, the secret to success is in the laying down of very clear parametersthen everyone gets on great.

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## poorfalang

Oh Im not angry, Oh no, Im not angry at all, i am just happy that i learn fast. :Smile:

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## IsaanAussie

We're all human. As George Carlen said (premoderated) "I don't habour pet dislikes, I develop pathological **** hatreds!"

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## wolfman

Farming in Thailand is a really heavy Job. And if you have enough money in your pocket on end of month....nobody know. In my mind, you just will have chance if you have a "new" and a "Special" idea. Feed Buffalos....plant Papaya will not be a good Business.

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## toddaniels

Reading the "farming/family" stories never cease to amaze me at the lengths Thais will go to serve their own interests at the expense of the "white buffalo". Even the foreigners thai significant other seems "in on the deal" from time to time. 

I wish I had a baht every time I heard a foreigner bemoan the fact that the farming venture they were coerced into undertaking didn't yield the profits the family boasted it would after all the costs were said and done. 

I've found that Thai extended families can be quite "forgetful" or at least have a very selective memories when it comes to cost of goods as far as; fertilizer, field preparation, contracting out the planting, the harvesting, killing the weeds. 

The best advice I've heard offered time and again about the family leeching money is; set a limit, stick to it no matter what sob story is being spoon fed to you by your wife, the thai in-laws or the out-laws. Teach them really early on that NO means most definitely NO.. 

It's better to come off looking like a heartless baht counting prick who takes care of his wife; rather than an easy mark who gives money to every Tom, Dick and Somchai in the extended family just because they asked.

And before some "expert" on thai cultural aberrations weighs in saying "in thailand you marry the family" I disagree.  You marry the wife, her family is her family, end of story. They certainly were living some life before you were thrown into the mix.  I highly doubt they'd end up on Lower Sukhumvit begging on the street if you stopped offsetting their existence. I say let 'em fend for themselves. 

One other thing, in Thai there are words for "borrow "ยืม and "borrow w/interest" กู้ too. However, all too often Thais equate borrowing (especially from a foreigner in the family) with the word "give" ให้.

P/S: I'd take ANY advice from "IsaanAussie" as fact. He obviously learned the knowledge he has one bit at a time over a very long time..

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## IsaanAussie

Thanks Toddaniels, I think? 555.
Your comment "..let 'em fend for themselves." is perhaps not my choice of words but the implication is correct. Take my own example. Before the wife and I moved here the family was growing rice on a total of about 40 rai, all channote land. For some years we had "helped" with fertiliser and harvest costs. Yet they were always "broke" and we never saw a baht or bag of rice. Since moving here we still have to put up the funds but now oversee the purchase and application of fertiliser. We do not fund the old daily "feast with your mates" during the harvest but pay a contractor to do it for us. But with no other real difference the harvest has doubled. 
Obviously the details of what our money was spend on previously were changed. Fertiliser reduced, less rice produced and harvest cost increased. A good time was had by all and the rice bowl was full. Thai lifestyle. 
Now its a business, I sell enough of the harvest immediately to recover all costs and profit. The rest we store for the family to "use". It is only possible to do if you are here and actively "stupervising".
If you are the absent funding source then do yourself a favour, hand over what you agree to and forget what it is used for. Once the cash changes hands, your part and participation in the deal is finished. You have helped.

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## jamescollister

> Thanks Toddaniels, I think? 555.
> Your comment "..let 'em fend for themselves." is perhaps not my choice of words but the implication is correct. Take my own example. Before the wife and I moved here the family was growing rice on a total of about 40 rai, all channote land. For some years we had "helped" with fertiliser and harvest costs. Yet they were always "broke" and we never saw a baht or bag of rice. Since moving here we still have to put up the funds but now oversee the purchase and application of fertiliser. We do not fund the old daily "feast with your mates" during the harvest but pay a contractor to do it for us. But with no other real difference the harvest has doubled. 
> Obviously the details of what our money was spend on previously were changed. Fertiliser reduced, less rice produced and harvest cost increased. A good time was had by all and the rice bowl was full. Thai lifestyle. 
> Now its a business, I sell enough of the harvest immediately to recover all costs and profit. The rest we store for the family to "use". It is only possible to do if you are here and actively "stupervising".
> If you are the absent funding source then do yourself a favour, hand over what you agree to and forget what it is used for. Once the cash changes hands, your part and participation in the deal is finished. You have helped.


AI as you and I have discussed, you can't farm remotely, it's boots on the ground.

Another thing overlooked often is a Thai girl is raised to believe she owes her parents a debt and that's a debt for life. 

They gave her life, feed her and in some cases educated them, that means they owe. Any success in there future, they have to shsre, farang, Thai or just good job.
Culture is different, especially Issan and you just have to navigate through it or move back to the west.
Does my head in at times, but I'm a child of the Protestant work ethic, not of Buddha and live in the moment. Jim

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## cdnski12

Maybe you should investigate the possibility of doing in Thailand, what you do in Scotland? If you are contracting to the Off Shore Oil Industry ... check out if that is possible in Thailand, which also has an Offshore Oil Industry. Malaysia, Vietnam & Burma ... all are involved in Off Shore Oil Drilling. I am always amazed why successful home country Tradesman Builders, Carpenters, Auto & Diesel Mechanics ..etc., don't set up businesses they actually know. Most expat ferangs would rather deal with a ferang owned businesses, because they know the work will be done correctly. Farming is a tough business in any country. Four generations of my ancestors farmed on large scale in Canada. None made much money. They turned over a lot of money, but very little went into a bank account. The 5th generation abandoned farming for other pursuits and 75 first cousins are all pretty successful. After my Thai GF Farming Experience fell apart due to my running out of "spare" money, I now confine myself to golfing & snorkelling on alternate days around Pattaya for 4 months per year. I am much happier doing things I like doing.

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## RickThai

My Thai BIL bought about 5 rai of land about 3 years ago.  With a lot of hard work he was able to clear the land and fill it full of banana trees.  He has tons of bananas now, but he doesn't make enough money to live off of.  Fortunately he has a full-time job and will receive full pay when he retires (he's a Thai police officer).

Unless you and your wife plan on working extremely hard in all kinds of weather, you will probably have a rough time making a decent living.  (If it is possible to grow enough crops on 5 rai to make a living.)  

You probably know that any money you spend on land in Thailand is a total loss as far as you personally are concerned.  You don't own it, and you can't sell it.  It will belong to your wife and will be inherited by her Thai family.

I would be really careful before investing any money you don't mind losing.

I'm sure smarter guys then you have got taken by a pretty Thai lady's wish for "a better life".

Best of luck,

RickThai

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## IsaanAussie

"_Investing money you don't mind losing..._" This is not relevant in Thailand. You have either spent the money wisely or unwisely, but either way it is spent! Here the givens are you will not have your name of the title and in a dispute you will lose. Anyone who isn't aware of that going in should have done some more research first and a fool and his money have been parted. 
I lost over half of my "safe" retirement funds in 2008 that were definitely in my name but in the hands of "experts". Nothing financial in todays world is rock solid safe, anywhere.

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## rickschoppers

Andy, let's talk about this logically. Have you seen a lot of rich farmers in Thailand? I haven't and all the money is held by the Chinese because they know how to come into a country very quietly and exploit it.

Farming is hard work in any country and you said you are not afraid of hard work. Unless you are willing to do all the work yourself, you will find the productivity of the average Thai is directly related to their own needs. They do not need very much, so they do not work very hard. Take a look at the greater majority. They will work at a job, no matter what it is, until they have enough money to get them through and then they will quit. Few work hard day in and day out because it is not their way.

You would be much better off working in the UK and then spending as much time in Thailand as you can. If your wife does not mind going with you, then great. You will not get much help from her family if you are looking for money and you will be the bank of the family as long as you are willing to foot the bill.

I came back to the US because no Thai would give me the money to finish building my house. Even after offering to sell my Vigo or another building lot owned by my wife and paid for by me, these ideas were not accepted. For me to work is the only way to finish the house, so here I am. I do not expect my wife, or her family, to help me monetarily. You will need to figure out how to live and make money without their help.

A harsh reality, but this is the way it is in Thailand. If you are counting on hard, continuous work to make money farming, forget it. No Thai will work at the pace you want and you will find it is not easy to make enough money to live on. They can do it because they have been doing it for decades, but it will not be enough to maintain a western lifestyle.

If there is anyone on this site that has made a very good living from farming, please correct me if I am wrong and tell us all how to prosper in Thailand.

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## Mr Earl

I can say from experience that it's very difficult to make money farming here.
For me it's been a barely break even experience. The main issue for me is the volatile commodity prices. I have oil palm and have seen the price fluctuate from 8 to 1.2 baht a kilo. At 6-8 baht a kilo there was a good cash flow. Now for the past couple years it's been staying closer to 3 baht a kilo, which is not putting very much money in my pocket.
I got other investments here so I'm not totally dependent on the farm, but it's nice to have it at least break even.
I'm continuing to diversify into other crops and commodities, and producing my own fertilizer. Actually producing the fertilizer is where I save a bunch. If I had to buy commercial fertilizer I'd be losing money.
The way the big farm operators make it is by buying chicken shit in large 6-12 month contracts from the big chicken farms. You need about 1000 rai to be doing that scale.

There are ways to make money off the land but it's a hands on affair, and you gotta ride your labor kinda hard to make it workable.

I invested back when land prices were still reasonable, the way things are now it's not really workable for a small operator unless you figure out some kind of niche market to fill.

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## jamescollister

> Andy, let's talk about this logically. Have you seen a lot of rich farmers in Thailand? I haven't and all the money is held by the Chinese because they know how to come into a country very quietly and exploit it.
> 
> Farming is hard work in any country and you said you are not afraid of hard work. Unless you are willing to do all the work yourself, you will find the productivity of the average Thai is directly related to their own needs. They do not need very much, so they do not work very hard. Take a look at the greater majority. They will work at a job, no matter what it is, until they have enough money to get them through and then they will quit. Few work hard day in and day out because it is not their way.
> 
> You would be much better off working in the UK and then spending as much time in Thailand as you can. If your wife does not mind going with you, then great. You will not get much help from her family if you are looking for money and you will be the bank of the family as long as you are willing to foot the bill.
> 
> I came back to the US because no Thai would give me the money to finish building my house. Even after offering to sell my Vigo or another building lot owned by my wife and paid for by me, these ideas were not accepted. For me to work is the only way to finish the house, so here I am. I do not expect my wife, or her family, to help me monetarily. You will need to figure out how to live and make money without their help.
> 
> A harsh reality, but this is the way it is in Thailand. If you are counting on hard, continuous work to make money farming, forget it. No Thai will work at the pace you want and you will find it is not easy to make enough money to live on. They can do it because they have been doing it for decades, but it will not be enough to maintain a western lifestyle.
> ...


A good living would depend on your previous life style, I make more expendable income here then I did in Australia.
By the time you take out housing costs, living costs, taxes etc, from your western wages, there's not much left, in my case there wasn't.

Like Mr Earl, I started when land was still cheap and took a long term approach, a big gamble that most will not be prepared to take.
On paper, at least we have made a lot of money from the land values alone, a reasonable steady income, minus rain etc from rubber. 
I have no outside money, but have not had to do paid work for near on 4 years. When the world gets better we will earn more.
Could make more money, but can't get good workers or enough, that's my biggest problem.

Will say this, no ones coming to Thailand with a few million Baht, setting up a farm and earning a living, those days are long gone. If it wouldn't work, return wise in the west, it won't here.

If I was starting up again, I could never afford Thailand, it would have to be Lao or Burma, just the facts of life.

Have had friends wanting to come and set up, but they all have weird ideas about buying some land. The in laws will sweat in the hot sun, day in day out, while they lay on a beach with the money rolling in.

If the OP wants to try something here, look outside the square, find a need or what will be needed in the future and go for that.
Friend came over many years ago and asked what could he get into, that would see him live the good life here. Said buy some land [ my wife's name ] on the main street of our nearest town and put up a proper legal petrol/gas station. He laughed, there were hardly any cars then, today you can't find a parking spot.

There are opportunities out there, I see openings, but don't have the capital to invest. If anyone wants to take a punt and has money come see me, I have one thing that makes things cheaper and easier, a Limited partnership company and 10  rai of national industrial zoned land, factories certified. Jim

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## toddaniels

Some really good advice on here for the O/P.

I have found it to be so true that a thai will work to meet their needs and once that happens then the work and/or the quality of work tapers off until it's not worth employing them any more.. 

For the life of me I can't understand it, but changing them is like tryin' to push a rope.

Christ, most thais won't even plant their own rice fields anymore and the ones that do often do that "broadcast planting". I think that's where you turn your back and throw the rice shoots over your head, because I've seen some pretty haphazardly planted fields out there.  Even though hand planting yields far more rice per rai, it's also far more labor intensive.  A close Thai friend bought a small rice harvester which has some sort of what looks like a "planting attachment" on it too. He's done quite well with it in the planting/harvesting seasons although it sits idle under a tarp most of the time because where he lives there's just one crop a year.

A foreign friend of mine has 30 rai in the middle of nowhere Galasin (in his wife's name of course). The wife's family allegedly rents it and farms rice on it for him.  At the end of the harvest if he gets a 20kg bag of rice to eat down here in Bangkok he thinks he's in tall cotton. BTW, he's footing the entire bill from pre-planting prep all the way thru to the milling & bagging!  I tried to tell him I thought the yields he was quoting me were quite low and if he wanted to he could find the average rice harvest per rai by province somewhere on the internet. I also mentioned that perhaps his wife's family is less than motivated to turn a profit as they have nothing invested, but of course as I don't have a thai wife, so his eyes I "don't understand thai culture".

I have found in endeavors you wanna undertake with a thai get them to "invest" too, because boy do they pay attention to stuff when their money is on the line along with yours. The other side of the coin is they'll wanna pull all their money out as soon as they possibly can rather than wait it out 'til the end. 

Even thinking outside the box only works a while. As soon as you do it for a season and your wife brags about its success; every Tom, Dick and Somchai on the neighboring farms jumps on board with the idea too.  

I've looked at a few things to piddle around with and I've whittled the list down to either raising frogs or mushrooms. Neither requires a huge amount of land or an incredibly high initial investment.  However both require that you're a 'boots on the ground' sorta person and can source buyers at the farm gate.  I'd imagine if you ain't there to watch it, expect it to be a break even endeavor at best, or just plain too much work for the extended family to do.  

Better yet, as other posters have pointed out, give the family X number of baht and leave 'em to their own devices as to what they do with it.

Good Luck. . .

Unless I'm mistaken the term for the indebtedness a thai gurl feels towards here parents is called ค่าน้ำนม (milk price) At least I know it's something like that. 

Funny I don't see all that many thai guys ponying up any dosh to help out the parents..

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## jamescollister

Have the same argument with the wife, she says it's just the Thai way and I live here and should act more like a Thai man.
I say OK, your brother, married one kid has a few G/Fs, the other brother, wife 2nd 2 kids  is at the local bar girl short time bars, first opportunity, everyone knows, Thai way.
Say I will try to be more Thai and hang out with your brothers, not that Thai she says. Can't win, stranger in a strange land and all that.

On the investment front, out here lots of coconuts left to rot on the ground, not a big investment to start in machines. Charcoal the shells into bricks, 200 Baht a bag for charcoal out here. Cottage industry and would pay a return, but you can never get big unless you are legal, that's where the cost comes in. Jim

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## jamescollister

Don't know what happened above, 1/2 the post disappeared, anyway good post td.
Jim

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## Rural Surin

> Andy, let's talk about this logically. Have you seen a lot of rich farmers in Thailand? I haven't and all the money is held by the Chinese because they know how to come into a country very quietly and exploit it.
> 
> Farming is hard work in any country and you said you are not afraid of hard work. Unless you are willing to do all the work yourself, you will find the productivity of the average Thai is directly related to their own needs. They do not need very much, so they do not work very hard. Take a look at the greater majority. They will work at a job, no matter what it is, until they have enough money to get them through and then they will quit. Few work hard day in and day out because it is not their way.
> 
> You would be much better off working in the UK and then spending as much time in Thailand as you can. If your wife does not mind going with you, then great. You will not get much help from her family if you are looking for money and you will be the bank of the family as long as you are willing to foot the bill.
> 
> I came back to the US because no Thai would give me the money to finish building my house. Even after offering to sell my Vigo or another building lot owned by my wife and paid for by me, these ideas were not accepted. For me to work is the only way to finish the house, so here I am. I do not expect my wife, or her family, to help me monetarily. You will need to figure out how to live and make money without their help.
> 
> A harsh reality, but this is the way it is in Thailand. If you are counting on hard, continuous work to make money farming, forget it. No Thai will work at the pace you want and you will find it is not easy to make enough money to live on. They can do it because they have been doing it for decades, but it will not be enough to maintain a western lifestyle.
> ...


A bit broadly generalised, Rick..
But being comfortable from farming [in Thailand] can be done.

Hard work, plenty of land, and most important a very marketable agricultural/horticultural product.

Explore and experience....I know numerous folks [Thai, Farang, Chinese, etc] that are extremely successful through farming practices. Hard, but honest living.

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## RickThai

OP,

Lot's of good advice and experience on this thread. 

Again good luck.

RickThai

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## IsaanAussie

> I can say from experience that it's very difficult to make money farming here.
> For me it's been a barely break even experience. The main issue for me is the volatile commodity prices. I have oil palm and have seen the price fluctuate from 8 to 1.2 baht a kilo. At 6-8 baht a kilo there was a good cash flow. Now for the past couple years it's been staying closer to 3 baht a kilo, which is not putting very much money in my pocket.
> I got other investments here so I'm not totally dependent on the farm, but it's nice to have it at least break even.
> I'm continuing to diversify into other crops and commodities, and producing my own fertilizer. Actually producing the fertilizer is where I save a bunch. If I had to buy commercial fertilizer I'd be losing money.
> The way the big farm operators make it is by buying chicken shit in large 6-12 month contracts from the big chicken farms. You need about 1000 rai to be doing that scale.
> 
> There are ways to make money off the land but it's a hands on affair, and you gotta ride your labor kinda hard to make it workable.
> 
> I invested back when land prices were still reasonable, the way things are now it's not really workable for a small operator unless you figure out some kind of niche market to fill.


I believe Earl's approach is correct, diversify. Not necessarily into many different things, but more importantly into things that relate and contribute to reducing costs. It is the purchased costs that kill off the return. Making fertiliser instead of buying it. Composting wastes. The real money in farming is in producing the inputs not the outputs. These are must haves and are not reliant on commodity prices or weather conditions, or labour. Without them you just don't start.
So first rule for me is to minimise external costs. 
Most posters have the same labour issue. Work until the rice bowl is full, then hammock time. The best I have ever had stayed useful for a year then fell into the whiskey vat. It isn't the large occasional project that is hard, you can get a team together for a week (when money is tight) if you get the timing right. It is the skilled or careful guy that is few and far between. I have two or three people that are key for me. I use them infrequently and pay well.
Watch the Thais in the village, it is all a matter of face. Even the poorest will not work on his own house if his is paying others to do it. But they use people with skills to do the job or they just accept what they get or can afford. Being there to observe is critical but don't criticise, plan ahead, sketches and aides. Or do it yourself if it is important. But cop the result "sweet"! 
The Thai word "Chang" has two meanings, one is elephant the other engineer. The two have one thing in common, they never forget! So to rewrite an old saying "Get mad and you'll never get even!"

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> Andy, let's talk about this logically. Have you seen a lot of rich farmers in Thailand? I haven't and all the money is held by the Chinese because they know how to come into a country very quietly and exploit it.
> 
> Farming is hard work in any country and you said you are not afraid of hard work. Unless you are willing to do all the work yourself, you will find the productivity of the average Thai is directly related to their own needs. They do not need very much, so they do not work very hard. Take a look at the greater majority. They will work at a job, no matter what it is, until they have enough money to get them through and then they will quit. Few work hard day in and day out because it is not their way.
> 
> You would be much better off working in the UK and then spending as much time in Thailand as you can. If your wife does not mind going with you, then great. You will not get much help from her family if you are looking for money and you will be the bank of the family as long as you are willing to foot the bill.
> 
> ...


Too generalized SR. Be a little more specific on how to be "comfortabe" from farming. A business plan would really be helpful here if you think it is easy to be successful in Thailand. Please share.  :Smile:

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## Namdocmai

I have some family who grow sugarcane and make a good living out of it. It is hard work but thats being a farmer. Even a western lifestyle is possible for them.

Do you know Chokchai steakhouse? That guy is very rich from breeding cows and selling steaks and yoghurts.

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## toddaniels

Not to pick nits there; especially with you "IsaanAussie", but. . .

The Thai word you spelled as "chang" doesn't have two meanings. 
It's two words, spelled and pronounced completely different; 
ช้าง (elephant) 
ช่าง (engineer)

OFF TOPIC; What is it with these people and animal names for their beer? Elephant, Tiger, Leopard, Lion??  

Back ON TOPIC;
I will agree that finding reliable labor seems to be the linchpin in a lot of endeavors here. I was lucky enough to hook up with some really talented Thai craftsmen; wood workers, tilers, electricians, plasterers, painters, etc. They all work in the Engineering department for a 5 star hotel chain, so they know what work done to an international standard is like.  Unfortunately because they work full time at their "real job" for the hotel, they don't have a lotta time to "moon-lite" on other renovation projects I find for them. 

Still on the ones we've done; the quality was first rate, the projects came in on budget and more importantly, (especially for a foreign clientele) on time. 

I also got them to charge and get, real money for their work. I taught them the English adage, "Good work is not cheap.. Cheap work is not good" in Thai (งานดี; มันไม่ถูก.. งานถูด; มันไม่ดี). It's funny back in the day in the US, you'd charge twice the materials as labor costs; $100 in materials = $200 in labor. Here I found it was the exact opposite, 100 labor = 200 in materials. I got the guys to start bidding the jobs with labor equal to materials and they were as over the moon with it as their customers were with the quality of the work. People will pay more if the work is high quality. There's so many foreigners who dumb themselves down to accepting Thai quality work that they think there's nothing else out there.     

I've tried to find other semi skilled Thais who'd put in a fair days work for fair pay, but they always wash out after about a week or so. It's disheartening, especially when I had to go in and paint the entire inside of house because the worker crapped out on me. I thought the Thai who owned the house was gonna fall over in a dead faint when he came in and saw me painting. He took pictures to show his friends that the interior of his house was painted by a 'white guy'! 

If I had just 4 or 5 guys who'd show up on time, I could keep them busy 24/7 with little bullshit repairs, renovation jobs which get kicked my way, but I can't source any reliable half skilled workers.. 

Sad really, there's work out there, and good money to be made too, IF you can find the people...

Sorry "RuralSurin" I'd hafta weigh in on the side of other posters in that that I've NEVER seen a rich Thai farmer. I've seen a LOT who manage to "get by", most who carry more debt than they can afford and a whole boat load who do nothing but put on a "show" that they're better off than they really are. A Thai being "comfortable" here is a far cry from a foreigner being comfortable here. 

There certainly are exceptions and Chokchai Bulakul is one. He got where he is because he wasn't afraid of hard work. Oh, he also built MBK mall back in the day before becoming a "cowboy".

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## rickschoppers

TD, I do agree with what you said about keeping good craftsmen busy in Thailand. The reason is that there are so few of them around. You are definitely lucky if you put together 5 good workers and am sure you could be a very successful contractor given those circumstances.

I am one of those who did have to "dumb down" things to get my house built. We all have seen very nice western homes, but to expect that to be built in Thailand is beyond reality. You have to work within people's capabilities and understandings. This is why so many westerners become frustrated at the larger building companies. They want western quality but only have Thai labor available. You could teach it, but nobody seems to be interested in learning.

As a result, you need to know the limitations and work within that framework.

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## IsaanAussie

Damn, my attempt at humour with loose use of Thai is discovered. 
TD my experience with labour in Bangkok is exactly the same. I was living in WangSawan near the Mai Sois, it was great, just ride the push bike down and come back with all the teak I needed. I was building a room full of solid teak furniture for a Japanese businessman. There was a lot to do and the finishing with teak oil took forever. Got one of the BIL's (expert painter) to come over to help. Spent the first week getting him to slow down and do things properly and then redoing most of it myself. A week or so later, now delivery date looming fast, he just went missing, gone. So a battle alone against the clock but finally got it done. The BIL turned up the evening I finished and wanted his pay for missing weeks. Got exactly what he had coming, bugger all.
I was charging that stuff out at materials times 3, for interest. Could easily have made a business out of that except for the labour issue.

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## alikhan0

Why would we do this! Would we do this to the wife in the west?
Is this the easy way out!! to have no heart.

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## blowin

Just read this tread and here is my 5 cents. My wife and I took over a Durian farm down south and added sprinkler system and dug ponds to supply water. The first year we broke a little bit  above even paying for improvements and paying wages with enough to cover sprays fertilizer for the next year. Last year we were able to buy a new pickup and pay all bills. But and that is the big but we had 55 rai to start with and had the cash to improve the farm. This year we will make a nice bit but are buying more land and going to plant it but as stated labour is king we pay two workers 20% gross and they look after everything the harder they work the more we all make. So farming is not all bad news or maybe I have been lucky  :Smile: .

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## forreachingme

Hi Andy,

Since you were good at selling hydroponics why not just continue with this ?

Hydroponics is big in Thailand, your advice can be used by many supermarket that need veggies without pesticides.

In same time you can source plenty of material made in Thailand to ship abroad.

Help home farmers to build up their settings, will allow you travel around.

There is a good market for big users and as well home users for this, the supply of material in Thailand will be much cheaper and allow you to contact your acquired customer base back home as well...

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## SilicaStorm

GreatThread,,, awesome to read the years of experience shown in a gentlemen's manner from all.
 I was a beef farmer in Canada and now live the executive office life in UAE and soon look to have a rural life in Isaan,,,, not looking to make huge profits from farming,,, but to grow/raise several variants of produce, stock, chicken and fish for own consumption and any possible side line sales with a small shop mart that also sales some whiskey, beer, smokes and common household items. 
Very interesting topic was the lending of money anyone familiar with this Thai money lending termed as "shares" ?

The key point i take from all posts is to diversify, reduce operating costs by recycling and above all enjoy your new life in Thailand!

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## SilicaStorm

GreatThread,,, awesome to read the years of experience shown in a gentlemen's manner from all.

 I was a beef/sheep farmer in Canada and now live the executive office life in UAE and soon look to have a rural life in Isaan,,,, not looking to make huge profits from farming,,, but to grow/raise several variants of produce, stock, chicken and fish for own consumption and any possible side line sales with a small shop mart that also sales some whiskey, beer, smokes and common household items. 

The key point i take from all posts is to diversify, reduce operating costs by recycling and above all enjoy your new life in Thailand!

Chok Dee Kup

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## blowin

> Just read this tread and here is my 5 cents. My wife and I took over a Durian farm down south and added sprinkler system and dug ponds to supply water. The first year we broke a little bit  above even paying for improvements and paying wages with enough to cover sprays fertilizer for the next year. Last year we were able to buy a new pickup and pay all bills. But and that is the big but we had 55 rai to start with and had the cash to improve the farm. This year we will make a nice bit but are buying more land and going to plant it but as stated labour is king we pay two workers 20% gross and they look after everything the harder they work the more we all make. So farming is not all bad news or maybe I have been lucky .


 Since I wrote optimistic comments last time now I am not as positive. We had a horridness start to the year due to drought. We lost trees fruit and the price dropped anywhere else the price would rise ( supply and demand) but here it droops. The other thing is the price is fixed by the big buyers who control all the pickers and transport so you have no control. My master plan was to move to Thailand full time this year but that has been shelved. So it is time to dust my self off and start again and hope next year is better. But we have trees that are over 10 years old and have 55 rai with a high value crop so don't believe that you put all your eggs in the one basket and live happy ever after it might not work..

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## rickschoppers

^
Now you are starting to get the idea of things here in Thailand.

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## Pragmatic

^^ It's nice to see someone put his hands up and confirm farming isn't as good as some make it out to be.

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## cdnski12

Why not set up a business to do what you do in UK. There is a lot of Offshore Oil work in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore. Even a Machine/Welding Shop would likely be more successful than farming. There are few decent welders or machine shops anywhere in Thailand. A cousin of my Thai GF has a huge House Reno business c/w ferangs, because he is reliable and can do nearly anything house construction-wise. The local Backyard Mechanic does a rip roaring business ... mainly because he is the kind of intuitive mechanic that can fix/repair anything that moves. These entrepreneurs make a lot of cash money, because they can get the job done quickly.

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## Koentje

Nice to meet you

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