#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Teaching In Thailand >  >  Why Do Farang English Teachers in Thailand Accept Low Salaries?

## Pragmatic

This is a question I've always asked myself. Is this guy correct?




> *Why Do Farang English Teachers in Thailand Accept Low Salaries?               * 
> 
> 
> 
> One thing Ive never been able to figure out since I moved to  Thailand more than a decade ago, is why so many farang English teachers  accept low salaries? After all, living on 35,000 baht a month is  difficult to do in a city like Bangkok, yet this type of low salary is  quite commonplace among many farang English teachers in Thailand. Why?
>  First, let me preface this by giving a little background about salaries for English teachers in Thailand.
> 
>   When I moved to Bangkok to teach English more than 10 years ago, the  average salary for an English teacher had not increased in at least 5-8  years. Now, 10 years later, that average salary for an English teacher  in Thailand still hasnt increased. So, an average salary for an English  teacher at a government school in Bangkok, for instance, 15 years ago  was around 35,000 baht. The same average salary 15 years later.
>  Yet..the cost of living in Thailand has increased by around 20-25  percent since I moved here. That means, what you could buy with 35,000  baht back in 2002 isnt remotely what you can buy with the same money in  2013.
> ...


 http://tastythailand.com/why-do-fara...-low-salaries/

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## bobo746

> Why Do Farang English Teachers in Thailand Accept Low Salaries?





> When I moved to Bangkok to teach English


You could probably answer your own question.

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## Pragmatic

I didn't move to BKK.  :Confused:

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## PeeCoffee

How many of these foreign English teachers were actually employed teaching English in their own country prior to coming to Thailand to be with a Thai woman , marry a Thai woman or have sex with Thai women in Thailand ?

My daughter has a Masters degree in Elementary Education and teaches first grade in a primary (Elementary) school in greater Seattle.She wouldn't even consider moving to what she regards as an academic shytehole to "teach"...let alone without full benefit and pension packages.

I wonder what was the author's vocation and background was prior to moving to Thailand for s3x ?
 :Confused:

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## Pragmatic

> She wouldn't even consider moving to what she regards as an academic shytehole to "teach"...let alone without full benefit and pension packages.


 I can see her point. So what is it that attracts teachers to Thailand?

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## Passing Through

> Is this guy correct?


More or less, no. In fact, he sounds like a fucking idiot.




> Thai women. Mistaken understanding of actual Thai salaries. Low self-esteem.


Certainly some TEFLers are here to get laid but I guess your perceptions  of how prevalent that is depends who you spend your time with or where  you go. If you're a whore-fucker and you hang out in places where other  whore-fuckers hang out, some of the people you meet will inevitably be  TEFLers but I can't say that the OP's description matches my experience.

The average monthly salary in Thailand is about 13,500 baht so 35,000 is  2.5 times that. If you TEFL in much of Europe, you  won't come anywhere near that so in that regard it's a pretty good deal.  When I worked in Britain for the local council teaching English, I was only getting around 70% of median wags, which made me officially poor. In fact, proper teachers in Britain typically earn only slightly over median  wages so presumably teachers (real ones) there are dumbfucks for not getting jobs as accountants.

As for self-esteem, that's not something I've ever seen in TEFLers. More common is that fact that (at least at the bottom end) it's pretty much unskilled work. If you're not a total fuckup and you have some kind of basic grasp of your mother tongue, you should be able to do an OK job but most TEFLers seem to think that they deserve much more than they get (and some certainly do), which works against the idea that they're all suffering from low self-esteem.

So why do they do it? It can be easy. It can be fun. It can be extremely rewarding. It's a good way to earn money whilst travelling. It's also a good  job if you want a year or two off from something more serious. If you take the work seriously (though perhaps fewer do than one would hope), it can be at least somewhat challenging, certainly enough to maintain one's interest for several years. And  obviously some Thai TEFLers meet a woman (or man) here and settle down. Does that  then mean that they are in Thailand to have sex with Thai (wo)men? No,  that's a ridiculous way of describing the situation. I used to TEFL (and I still help out with various things occasionally). I started because I was disillusioned with life in London and wanted to get away and do something different for a while, and living in Thailand and doing a job which had at least a little social value was attractive. The pay was better back then, in relative if not absolute terms, but like many people who end up doing these kinds of jobs, money was obviously not a big motivator. It was enough...and that's enough.




> My daughter has a Masters degree in Elementary Education


Good for her but then she's unlikely to work as a TEFLer so what she might or might not do in some hypothetical situation isn't really relevant, is it.

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## nidhogg

> My daughter has a Masters degree in Elementary Education
> 			
> 		
> 
> Good for her but then she's unlikely to work as a TEFLer so what she might or might not do in some hypothetical situation isn't really relevant, is it.


Kind of the whole point I would have thought.  English _teachers_ do not work for that kind of money.

People with few other skill besides a native language ability, do.

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## Passing Through

^ The thread is about TEFLers. This is obviously something different to  people with post-grad qualifications in education so complaining about  the latter not doing the former's job is a bit weird. That said, I've  met quite a few 'English _teachers'_ who did work as TEFLers in Thailand so it's just incorrect to say that they don't do so.




> People with few other skill besides a native language ability, do.


Not quite sure what inference I'm being invited to draw there. As I said in my post, there are few barriers to working as a TEFLer (in Thailand or elsewhere) but it would be shitty reasoning to think that therefore people who work as TEFLers have few skills.

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## baldrick

the article sounds like it was written by smeggles

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## beerlaodrinker

> Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
> 
> She wouldn't even consider moving to what she regards as an academic shytehole to "teach"...let alone without full benefit and pension packages.
> 
> 
>  I can see her point. So what is it that attracts teachers to Thailand?


The pussy prag, some guys will work for peanuts just have access to the clam

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## stroller

35k baht isn't a low salary in Thailand, a school director in a government school gets less.

The article is humbug.

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## tunk

I have low self-esteem. I love to bone Thai women and no idea what a Thai earns. I do it for the work permit.

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## Kurgen

Kan anneywon teech Englist in Tailand?

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## Dillinger

^  your highered

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## poorfalang

Because they won't give you anymore.

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## jimbobs

There's a few fuckin teflers on here spouting shite how clever they are, sucking up to the Thais and counting their pennies until they die.
Then come on here and spout long words
They do it cos they are fuckin losers

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## BobR

The simple answer is that a 30-35,000 Baht a month job is a good paying job for Thailand. 

Sure, if you want to work for some snobbish private school and teach privileged brats, you can expect more, but if you're teaching normal Thai children in a Government school, that's decent pay by local standards.

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## OhOh

One suspects that your typical Teacher of English in Thailand is not a qualified teacher in their home country. One suspects that if one has a bearable accent, can stay sober, turn up regularly and not abduct too many students one can hold down a teacher of English role in Thailand.

Hence it is not a job for monetary gain, more a lifestyle  gain - to some.

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## Pragmatic

> One suspects that if one has a bearable accent, can stay sober, turn up regularly and not abduct too many students one can hold down a teacher of English role in Thailand.


Up until a year or so ago the English teachers at the local government senior school were from The Cameroon even though they spoke with French accents. Someone had a clamp down and they all got rounded up and deported.  :Confused:

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## OhOh

It's a good job they found those Scousers to replace them. That'll teach those Thai hisos. There are a few young students, 10 to 12 years old, in the town who speak with a whiny US accents, it's such a shame. I'm sure their teacher must be chewing gum during the English lessons.

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## jimbobs

^ 
No scousers working in Thailand mate
It's hard enough getting the robbing bastards working in Liverpool  :Smile:

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## OhOh

> ^ 
> No scousers working in Thailand mate
> It's hard enough getting the robbing bastards working in Liverpool


I do use the word "working" in a very loose sense. :Smile:

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## Munted

> Hence it is not a job for monetary gain, more a lifestyle gain - to some.


Nothing wrong with that. Relatively is a qualitative change if you have nothing & then go to something different plus a little more... respect (maybe)... pussy (definitely) ... expendable income (probably).

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## stroller

^
That's how I look at it, but fortunately, I haven't had to resort to teaching. As I am not a teacher, salary expectations would have to be very low, specially in the middle of nowhere.

I have helped out on special weekends, as a favour. I've yet to meet a local English teacher who can speak English.

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## OhOh

> I've yet to meet a local English teacher who can speak English.


The local school English teacher is a very pretty lass, an Issan lady, who knows more English than any other teacher, hence she is good.

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## hallelujah

A couple of points here: 

Firstly, being qualified to teach English in your home country does NOT qualify you to teach English as a foreign LANGUAGE to non native speakers. To employ a PGCE qualified English teacher from the UK in a Thai classroom, who has spent his/her career teaching Shakespeare to UK teens, would be akin to asking a doctor to remove your wisdom teeth. 

Secondly, qualified EFL teachers at the likes of the British Council earn around THB 85,000 a month. They also receive a generous benefits package including return flights, health insurance, all visas covered and a minimum of 35 days a year paid holidays. IDP and a few others offer similar packages albeit round about the 60k mark.

Like most industries, what you earn depends on what you're able to offer.

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## NZdick1983

^ The market will pay the least possible amount, to fill any given position.

Thailand (especially certain locations) are seen as desirable - hence the proliferation of wanabe English teachers - driving the price down.

They themselves are to blame by accepting ever lower salaries and stricter working conditions - thus the ever decreasing miserable pay persist.

From my experience, English teachers in toyland are a disenfranchised lot - instead of forming a support network/backbone, they prefer to bicker with envy and resent other foreigners in tryland.

(A bit representative of us lot on TD really).. jing jing.

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## hallelujah

> ^ The market will pay the least possible amount, to fill any given position.
> 
> Thailand (especially certain locations) are seen as desirable - hence the proliferation of wanabe English teachers - driving the price down.
> 
> They themselves are to blame by accepting ever lower salaries and stricter working conditions - thus the ever decreasing miserable pay persist.
> 
> From my experience, English teachers in toyland are a disenfranchised lot - instead of forming a support network/backbone, they prefer to bicker with envy and resent other foreigners in tryland.
> 
> (A bit representative of us lot on TD really).. jing jing.


"The market will pay the least possible amount, to fill any given position."

I'm not sure you've read my post, Richard. 

The markets I've spoken about aren't paying the least possible amount, and if you have a post grad practical qualification such as the DELTA to add to your degree and initial CELTA you can comfortably start talking 6 figures each month for relatively little work. And the benefits package is pretty sweet too.

It all depends on what you're able to offer. 

There will always be a customer who will pay for quality just as there will be impoverished kids in government schools who at the very least hear a native voice 4 or 5 times a week.

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## NZdick1983

^ I get that, Hallelujah...

I was addressing the shitty pay in general (not for the top-end). 
I didn't mean to sound patronizing, I know the majority are good teachers.

They all deserve more money, but until they value themselves and stop accepting pitiful salaries the situation will only get worse (and teachers  become poorer).

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## hallelujah

> ^ I get that, Hallelujah...
> 
> I was addressing the shitty pay in general (not for the top-end). 
> I didn't mean to sound patronizing, I know the majority are good teachers.
> 
> They all deserve more money, but until they value themselves and stop accepting pitiful salaries the situation will only get worse (and teachers  become poorer).


You're ever positive, Dick.  :Wink: 

Personally speaking, I think the absolutely unqualified TEFLers do a job to an extent, but I'm not sure about giving them more money. As I intimated above they fill a void, but I wouldn't want my kid taught by them.

The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.

Unfortunately, we all know that genuine opportunities in life remain out of reach for most people in Thailand...

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## NZdick1983

Good points mate..

However, I think the 'absolutely unqualified' riff-Raff have been culled by the ever more strict criteria for WP's..
Unless you want to live under the radar - without a valid work permit, you must have a degree/relevant experience..

In the end, the sad old mantra "pay peanuts, get monkeys" applies.
Shitty wages will attract shitty applicants... by all means, scrutinize the teachers even further - but pay them decent wages otherwise the cream of the crop will go elsewhere (Japan/Korea/China) for a salary befitting their skills/qualifications - Thailand will be left with the bottom feeders (as it deserves).

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## Neverna

> The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.


They are/have been trying to do that in government schools with teacher "licensing". 

The question remains, IMO, what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?

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## NZdick1983

^ I know there is a bad stigma staining Farang English teachers in Thailand... 

But from my experience, workmates, etc... maybe I was lucky/blessed, but they were a dedicated and professional group of people (except for the odd - and I mean "odd" ones)...

They all took their jobs very seriously, went over and above the call of duty and really cared for their students (cue the violin, Hallelujah!!) lol

 :bananaman:

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## hallelujah

> Originally Posted by hallelujah
> 
> 
> The problem time and again comes back to the government. If they were serious about educating the nation they would genuinely tighten things up and ensure all teachers - native and non native - receive appropriate training and/or are suitably qualified. In all subjects.
> 
> 
> They are/have been trying to do that in government schools with teacher "licensing". 
> 
> The question remains, IMO, what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?


Thai licensing?  :Wink: 

IMO, Suitably qualified should mean a genuine degree to prove that the individual can function at graduate level and the benchmark *initia*l qualification: a CELTA.

This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.

This is a distant dream though. Let's get a degree, CELTA and a supportive PD system in place first.

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## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by hallelujah
> ...


Yes, from the Teachers Council of Thailand. 




> Suitably qualified should be a genuine degree to prove that the individual can function at graduate level and the benchmark *initia*l qualification: a CELTA.


Foreign teachers in Thailand are required to have at least a Bachelor's degree. A CELTA or other TEFL type qualification is not required (by the Thai authorities). 




> This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.


That would depend on whichever employer one worked for. Some are/will be supportive of that. Others wouldn't care. 




> This is a distant dream though.


If one expects the Thai government to provide support and professional development for foreign teachers, yes, a distant dream.  :Smile:

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## hallelujah

> Originally Posted by hallelujah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Neverna
> ...


Quite. 

However, you did ask me




> what is (or should be) the meaning of "suitably qualified" in the context of teaching English in Thailand?


 :Wink:

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## Neverna

> Quite. 
> 
> However, you did ask me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. I understand you were giving your opinion to my query.  :Smile:  

My opinion is that it depends where the individual is teaching. The CELTA, as fine a qualification as it is, is tailored towards teaching adults (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults) and its suitability for use in a Thai classroom is debatable. However, it is ideal for teaching adults in a well organised language centre.

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## hallelujah

> Originally Posted by hallelujah
> 
> 
> Quite. 
> 
> However, you did ask me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair point, but I think the skills you're first introduced to during the CELTA are transferable to any classroom and will make any learning environment more positive. Where it falls down with YLs tends to be classroom management and, obviously, understanding your learners.

A lot of good practice is common sense though. If you've got half a brain and are willing to learn from your peers then the leap is relatively easy with a supportive and experienced management structure.

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## can123

> Fair point, but I think the skills you're first introduced to during the CELTA are transferable to any classroom and will make any learning environment more positive. Where it falls down with YLs tends to be classroom management and, obviously, understanding your learners.


This is a cowardly response. The guy clearly does not have a clue about teaching English and has probably not done it himself. Teaching English requires some skills but the most important thing is empathy with the student. This cannot be taught. A great deal depends on common sense. I can teach " one to one" but teaching to a class of people is infinitely easier.

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## hallelujah

Me: "A lot of good practice is common sense though. If you've got half a brain and are willing to learn from your peers then the leap is relatively easy with a supportive and experienced management structure."

 :Confused: 

Is English your first language? I suspect not.

Who on earth is talking about one to one teaching?

You're pissed, aren't you?

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## NZdick1983

^ Teaching is the hardest profession in the world to do well.

I believe it is a combination of careful study/application of human psychology and a blend of your personality/natural gifts.

Learning how to inspire and motivate your students takes a love for teaching people, that can't be learned.

I respect all my fellow teachers - it's a thankless profession, marred with low pay and high expectations.  :Notworthy:

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## OhOh

> Teaching is the hardest profession in the world to do well.


Bollocks.

Teaching anything, to a person who has a desire to learn, is very easy. From rocket science to abc. 

Unfortunately most of the "teachers" in Thailand are teaching in some forgotten school and in some forgotten part of the country. Thais in those areas, have little desire to learn anything other than how to plough a paddy, how to attract a mate and how to get home after a days Kao Lao binge. A large % of the students have no impetus to buckle down and learn something they can't comprehend as having any relevance to their current, or future, lives. That includes many subjects not just a foreign language.

Not every ex-pat, English teacher lives on Sukomvit road, Bangkok. As for the British Council I wonder what % of Thais have even heard of it

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## Munted

> This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.


I have a degree in linguistics. So go the C-D for 6 figures in Thailand? Those 6 figure teachers also have experience in their home country, not just theoretical knowledge.

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## hallelujah

> Originally Posted by hallelujah
> 
> This should be followed by a supportive programme that offers professional development - the key for anyone who's just done a CELTA - and the teacher working towards the higher, MA level practical qualification: the Cambridge DELTA.
> 
> 
> I have a degree in linguistics. So go the C-D for 6 figures in Thailand? Those 6 figure teachers also have experience in their home country, not just theoretical knowledge.


Congratulations on your linguistics degree. However, that would be worth pretty much jack shit in any EFL classroom worth it's salt without a practical EFL qualification.

By the way, If you'd bothered to read the posts properly, you'd realise that the 6 figure  EFL teachers I'm talking about often do NOT have experience in their home country.

This is EFL we're talking about; the F - as in foreign - is a bit of a giveaway.

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## Munted

Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition  at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.

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## hallelujah

> Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition  at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.


If you have a TEFL qualification then you will realise that it means Teaching English as a FOREIGN Language, which is not the same as teaching the ins and outs of Macbeth to bored teenagers in your home country. The two jobs are not the same.

How many fucking times have I got to explain this to you?

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## CaptainNemo

Real teachers with MEd and similar qualifications can get very good salaries in proper educational institutions in Asia. Those that are taking B20k-B30k/month jobs are in the informal sector, and are evidently not willing to commit to teaching as a profession and train and work formally in the west before going to Asia. It looks like desperation to escape the west and attempt a shortcut around years of study and work to reach the point where they're worth £20k-£30k a year.

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## Munted

> Originally Posted by Munted
> 
> 
> Yes I do have a Thai TEFL qualification. You should prove your assertion that CELTA-DELTA gets 6 figures. It's just a dream IMHO. Recruiters aren't that stupid. They need to see in addition  at least two to three years of home country teaching. This will qualify said person as a real certified teacher.
> 
> 
> If you have a TEFL qualification then you will realise that it means Teaching English as a FOREIGN Language, which is not the same as teaching the ins and outs of Macbeth to bored teenagers in your home country. The two jobs are not the same.
> 
> How many fucking times have I got to explain this to you?


True but you have not in any way refuted my assertion that you are just a dreamer.

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## hallelujah

> Originally Posted by hallelujah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Munted
> ...


Well done. I'll deal with your next point now. 

This is for a senior teacher in 2014 in Bangkok at the BC and requires a DELTA.

https://jobs.britishcouncil.org/View...um=AtsViewLink

"Salary is currently paid monthly in arrears on a 7 point scale, the scale minimum and maximum is shown
below. Your starting point on the scale will be decided according to your qualifications and experience, unless
you are already on the global salary scale.
*Minimum: 107,303 (Gross) Thai baht monthly. Average annual income tax is approximately 15%
Maximum: 134,276 (Gross)* Thai baht monthly. Average annual income tax is approximately 18%
In addition to salary, an annual performance-related bonus, set annually by the Teaching Centre, will be paid
on 31 December each year (pro-rata where applicable), subject to satisfactory performance. In
2013 this was THB 25,000.
The Aug 2014 exchange rate is £1 = 54 Thai baht"

Anything else I can do for you?  :smiley laughing:

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## Munted

> and experience


Thanks,  you answered my query.

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## hallelujah

> Originally Posted by hallelujah
> 
>  and experience
> 
> 
> Thanks,  you answered my query.


Some advice for you in future: don't come to a battle of wits unarmed.

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## Munted

Trite answer as you do not want to know what the experience required by BC actually is. It will burst your day-dreamer bubble.

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## Bettyboo

This looks like fun, so I'll throw in my tuppence...

Many 'teachers' that teach EFL in schools/universities throughout Asia have either no teaching qualifications, no experience/knowledge of EFL or both; this is a problem.

A qualified primary/secondary school teacher from the UK/USA/Canada/etc has some skills, classroom management skills, to teach at primary/secondary schools in Asia, but they would lack EFL theory and practical skills - this is a massive problem and leads to lots of bad teaching. They should (and need) to undertake a CELTA at the very least. If they care about continued development then they should look for further EFL post-graduate qualifications too (Thammasat have some decent and affordable options at MA/PhD level which would arm teachers very well). A CELTA is better than any of the other short term certificates I know of, as it's rigorous, teaches basic classroom management skills and has an EFL focus. It is only a starting point, imho, and should be the very minimum requirement.

While we're talking about primary schools, the average Thai school is such a difficult place to teach English due to lack of student motivation, lack of materials, poor management (senior Thai staff/patronage), so any enthusiastic native speaker with a CELTA is likely to be worth hiring. &, yes, while it's not the only quality, empathy with the students and foregrounding their learning in the local context is good teaching.

The only place to earn good money in Thailand, as far as I'm aware, is folks with teacher qualifications from their home countries to work in international schools following the US/UK curriculum they were trained to teach. &, I'll add that I don't consider these teachers qualified to teach EFL in Asian primary/secondary schools or universities without further EFL teacher training. But, they no doubt do an excellent job of teaching at the international schools that follow the same curriculum they were trained for, and they earn excellent salaries doing so. 

Regarding further qualifications, some MAs look like they provide relevant skills, but do not; a prime example is a BA/MA/PhD in education - it has the word education in it, but is linked to first language acquisition and abstract theory; people with these types of qualification cause untold damage throughout Asia, as they usually move into senior positions and make decisions that they have no knowledge of; I've had endless experience of these folks, both native speakers and Asian, who write syllabuses and exams without any idea at all what EFL is about or the relevant EFL language theory - they simply follow theory written for kids in the UK/Australia/US decades ago, highly prescriptive and objectivist, and totally inappropriate in the local context. Disaster...

I've met many teachers with undergraduate (and/or postgraduate) qualifications in English, English literature, Business Management, Anthropology, and similar who have done a CELTA or TEFL MA (not TESoL), and are very good teachers. The important area seems to be that the teacher foregrounds their own and student thinking skills and autonomy while having EFL knowledge that they're able to localize.

DELTA: is loved by some (such as the British council and some countries like the ME) and carries no worth for others (Thai universities). I don't know much about it, so I won't comment other than to say I believe it's a rigorous program which is good, but it's linked to Cambridge University/British Council and their imperialism that I have no time for at all...

Linguistics qualifications: I'm biased because my post graduate qualifications and research are in linguistics, specifically applied linguistics in EFL, I consider this an excellent base for EFL teaching at secondary school and university level, but it must have an EFL focus. The problem is that most qualifications and teacher training courses are TESoL, focused on first language acquisition and highly culturally imperialistic.

I work solely in universities (although I did teach Thai primary school teachers of English for 7 years at Silpakorn and Chula universities), and the worst teachers I've come across are primary/secondary school teachers and management with post graduate qualifications in education - they just repeat classes that a 6 year-old in Britain or America would teach, and these are a complete failure for young adults in Asia. Obviously, this general English paradigm is outdated and proven useless, but these people simply don't read up to date research.

To end, there are at least three areas and each require different qualifications: International schools following a UK/US curriculum; primary/secondary schools; universities. I work in universities and consider myself good at my job, but I am not qualified to work at International schools or primary/secondary schools.

 :Smile:

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## hallelujah

> Trite answer as you do not want to know what the experience required by BC actually is. It will burst your day-dreamer bubble.


The experience is 5 years teaching EFL- as it says on the opening page of the link. 

_"You should have a Diploma-level qualification (i.e. Cambridge DELTA/Trinity DipTESOL), an undergraduate/university degree with 5 years full-time teaching to a variety of age groups and levels. i.e. Young learners and Adults of which one year should have been gained after obtaining your  Diploma-level qualification"_

Are you a glutton for punishment or are you just really stupid?

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## Munted

So now we get to the root of your daydream. You are a TEFLer with a BA or such, about to spend big money on a DELTA or such & after completing so and the time & teaching requirements you will be expecting the BC to be recruiting you, starting salary from B100,000 per month at least.   :rofl:

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## OhOh

Does anybody have any figures on the numbers of ex bricklayer turned TEFL employed in Thailand compared to the Deltaforce BC "professionals"?

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## Neverna

I don't have recent data but the last set of figures available (2012) showed: 1 - 0.

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## BobR

> speak with a whiny US accents


That comment wasn't necessary, but it does prove they were learning and that the teacher made the difference.

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## moose65

seriously, i do not understand these "teachers" that work here with dodgy visa's and then cry about poor salaries !
why not just go back to Birmingham or wherever you come from and get a real job.

personally i won't get out of bed for less than 30 000 baht a WEEK !

Rob

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## cyrille

> why not just go back to Birmingham


ah, let me count the reasons..

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## NZdick1983

Supply and demand... lots of wannabe English teachers (and real qualified English teachers too) want to escape their dreary, cold, capsule of existence - hence the wages have stagnated (or declined) since the mid 90's.

Thailand is a popular place to live for foreigners.. it's  seen as cheap, sunny, with free and easy sex, easily available...

Why would/should they pay more, when there is 100 fresh faced applicants, eager to take your place if you rock the money boat.

The demographics have shifted. Older teachers have fooked off for greener pastures - most teachers are now 20 something - looking for their OE, perhaps a year or 2 in LOS max.. then back to the reality of working life where they came from...

It suits them and suits the establishment who get a revolving door of constant supply of bright, enthusiastic, young teachers to impress the parents...
They are not in the system long enough to become jaded, or tire of the bureaucracy and utter shambles that is the Thai *business* education system.

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## cyrille

> Thailand is a popular place to live for foreigners.. it's  seen as cheap, sunny, with free and easy sex, easily available...


Latterly there has been a steep rise in the number of teachers who lead quiet lives, barely drink, have side jobs and spend a lot of time with Netflix etc.

They will tell you that BKK in particular is actually not a bad place to be to pay off  student loans etc. as long as you are focussed and work your way into a circa 70k job.

Think of how much you need  to be earning to cover rent and bills, travel etc. for a reasonably comfortable apartment in the centre of the capital cities of our home countries. For London maybe 100k sterling a year. For Bangkok maybe 300k baht a year.

With the U.K. economy in its steepest decline for thirty years this looks set to to continue.

A lot of people here compare TEFL in Thailand in 2016 to the low skilled labour of the seventies when they were making their first steps into the world of employment. Apples and oranges...

Oh and it's very noticeable that the 'old boy' retired electricians etc. here simply have to believe all TEFLers make 30k.  :Very Happy:

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## NZdick1983

Yes, stereotypes are big in Thailand... Thai nature is to pigeon hole people into tight compartments.. 

I was a Science teacher selling cosmetics - with a matchmaking business 55... combining 2 or  3, vastly different jobs, really did their minds in.

Thais like black and white... they don't like, or their minds can't compute outside the norm... I don't mean that in an offensive way... just a Farang stereotype of Thais lol...

You are a teacher (full stop)... the mold is set - it's very limiting and restrictive... I like doing things outside the square...my businesses were not uber successful (obviously) but they enabled me a great life-style in Thailand and the rare ability to actually save money... (which is key to my happiness)...

Some crafty teachers making much more than 30k that's for sure, Cyrille. You just have to market yourself well, anything is possible..

It's strange, my recent visit to Japan, I noticed many Gaijin/Farang doing all sorts of jobs/businesses... the Hotel we stayed in Miyazaki we were greeted by Western staff (fluent in Japanese)... 

Another lady was married to a Japanese man, teaching from their house (she was the only English teacher I met).

A bakery shop was owned by a Danish man, Indian restaurant run by ahh umm Indians... retired couple in Itoshima making their own soaps, organic vegetables, arts and crafts, etc, etc...

I've been away from Thailand for 4 years now.. so I expect there might be changes happening there too...(my point being, lots of small entrepreneurs in Japan)...  You would think with less rules/regulations, Thailand should be a paradise for guys/girls with smart business ideas..

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## cyrille

> Thais like black and white.


Whereas internet forums are a great showcase for the more nuanced understanding of farangs.

* cough * 

 :Wink:

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## cyrille

Loads more farang / thai couples where she obviously isn't from a bar around in bkk these days too. 

Vastly different to when I arrived in '89.

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## NZdick1983

^ 555 touche^...

We are not immune from stereotypes as well...

Yes, I noticed those changes while I was still there... Noi the short, stocky, rat munching, face like a dropped pie walking with young stud dude
has all but gone.. replaced by Noi the office worker/accountant, clean and never seen a bar, keen on a Western man

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## Passing Through

> Yes, stereotypes are big in Thailand... Thai nature is to pigeon hole people into tight compartments..


Erm. Right. Anything you notice about those two sentences?

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## NZdick1983

^ Nothing particularly... hole, tight, pigeon.. mmmm am I hungry, or horny..

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## Passing Through

> Thais like black and white... they don't like, or their minds can't compute outside the norm... I


Best not to over-generalize from your own experience; like most foreigners in Thailand, you seem to have spent your time here with idiots (and why that would be the case...well, one can hypothesise). If that's the life you want, that's up to you but it hardly provides a sound grounding for the vacuous, asinine horseshit you post on this board.

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## Passing Through

> ^ Nothing particularly... hole, tight, pigeon.. mmmm am I hungry, or horny..


No, well. It was probably foolish of me to expect much insight on your part.

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## NZdick1983

^ Insight into what?

The deeper meaning of teaching in Thailand??

What would you like to hear? everyone bases their opinions on their own life-experiences no? best not judge me by the tongue in cheek, horseshit I post on TD, I'm not writing my thesis on the meaning of life, just giving my impression of living half my life there in a lighthearted manner.  :Smile: 

I was lucky to have a great bunch of friends during my time there - a couple idiots, yes ya got me...(but they made things interesting though)... as they do on this board, as per your contributions, PT.. lol  :Notworthy:

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## Passing Through

> Insight into what?


The fact that you are instantly guilty of doing exactly what you accuse Thais of doing.

But, hey, this is a forum for racist bellends so why make a big deal over it?

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## NZdick1983

^ Yup... Thais like eat rice... Thais like saaleep... Thais like saapicy somtam... Thais like sabai sabai complacent easily manipulated, English teachers...  ::chitown:: 

Farang like dark skinned lady, Farang no like saapicy food, Farang like eat bread (ka-nom)...

I got nothing against the Thais (or anyone, for that matter)... just calling a spade a spade.. generalizations exist.

Of course, Thais are not racist or judgemental in the slightest... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

If only I had 1 baht for every time a Thai said they love the smell of Indians, or that we shouldn't judge black people by their color as inside they may be nice people, etc, etc...  :rofl:

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## Passing Through

^ Meaningless fucking gibberish.

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## NZdick1983

jaaa ^  :bananaman:

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## Ratchaburi

great stuff Dicki  :Smile:

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## NZdick1983

555 cheers bro! 

At least someone appreciates my horseshit assassin comments... (or was it asinine?) oh well...I'm in good company ey..  ::chitown:: 

*Pass us the bong, Brah.. :Sasmokin:

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## Topper

I'd share my experiences as a teacher over the last 14 years, but don't think it's worth the effort when there's someone obviously trolling the thread.

Just my two cents.....

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## beerlaodrinker

Your on a roll dick, keep em coming bro you've got the trolls fucked now they are gob smacked and will shortly reply with insults, they have really no comeback to your brutally honest wit mate, you've obviously been around , I like your style mate, be sure to pop in for a brewski when your in my neck of the woods or I,ll buy you an asahi in fukuoka

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## NZdick1983

55 cheers bro. 

wit and dick together in the same sentence, now there's a first.. not trying to be a spaz, it comes naturally.
I've learned to not take myself too seriously, especially on a forum with such a diverse group of people.

At any rate, it doesn't matter how benign or non-flamatory your posts may or may not be, someone will always take offense (real or imagined).

You know how it goes...you can please some punters some of the time but you can't please all punters al the time..

Or something like that..

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## OhOh

> That comment wasn't necessary, but it does prove they were learning and that the teacher made the difference.


So touchy eh, OK the New Zealander/Aussie whine, happy?

Why don't they label the course how to speak American/Australian? That would be a more honest label. There are some differences in attitude and culture, still.

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## NZdick1983

^ Slight accents, are the least important thing when teaching English. Almost inconsequential.

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## OhOh

I am talking about speaking English and using appropriate words. Not the grammer, although I'm sure some variations are there in the colonial text books.

Most Thai  :Smile:   wish to learn how to communicate verbally in English and as such, a native Englishman or woman has a head start. IMHO. Unfortunately the Thai "English" teachers i have conversed with, are not shall we say, too confident themselves. Which is very different to many European run of the mill citizens, who manage to switch between English, French, Dutch and German with ease. As is experienced at a Dutch railway station

They need a number of phrases learnt rote style. To many, even the few dozen they learn, as the Thai/ASEAN governments have demanded, will never be used.

In my opinion, anything one can give a child that helps their confidence will help them during their lives. Whatever their nationality.

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## NZdick1983

^ Good points, OhOh.

Some of my (Thai) co-teachers were very good teachers.. I learned some techniques from them and vice-versa..

IMHO To positively impact the Thai education system, one doesn't need to be a literary genius, just focus on the basics/foundation i.e. Phonetics, reading comprehension and basic grammar.

*For the majority of Thai learners.. excluding university level of course..

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## OhOh

Thank you. My knowledge is only gleaned from the neighbours kids here who bring their Thai text books along for my guidance. Some of the grammar and word selection is not of a very high standard. It's amusing when the text books allegedly are produced by the Thai government agencies and university educated Thais. 

It's what the Thai English teachers, and presumably the ex-pats/native speakers, use at the local schools. When your students are shown the English sentence, the Thai pronunciation and the Thai translation guess what they eyes are drawn to?

When I learnt French at school, the only language used in the class was French. We did have a little red book of French/English words for reference and homework was a mandatory 20 words a week to memorise.

What I really need, from you, is one of these.    *
 :Smile:

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## NZdick1983

The blind leading the blind, innit?

Never fear, the good general numpty, has a cunning plan to make everyone fluent in English lickety–split...   ::chitown:: 

I think he mentioned imparting everyone with bionic superpowers too... (top secret na krup)..

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## Pragmatic

I said it before but I think the Thai way of teaching English is shite. I send my 3 kids to Marie Patak school. They are taught American English, due to that being the cheapest English package they buy from Bangkok. The children are not taught the 'phonetic' alphabet and right from dot one are taught to use abbreviated words such as can't instead of cannot. My kids think abbreviated words are words in their own right. Plus using American English the spellings are different. My kids think 'Donut' is the correct way to spell 'Doughnut'. It really does my fcuking head in. Also 'okay' is correct if written as 'Ok'.

You can say 'why don't you just take your kids out of the school then'. I could, but that just leaves the option of putting them in a government school and they're no better. 

Another thing that pisses me off is that the 'American English' is taught by Brits.  :Confused:

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## NZdick1983

Thais teach rote learning.. that doesn't include Phonics (most don't even know what phonics is)...

They teach the kids to remember 'sight words'... instead of breaking each word down into sounds...therein lies the heart of the problem IMHO

I introduced Phonics to my school in Korat... now they see the benefit of it.
I could write any word on the board i.e. com-mu-ni-ca-tion.. and my P1 class could sound it out...

Of course, they would not comprehend the meaning of new words, but at least it unlocked the key for them to learn to read.
Once they 'get' the idea that each letter represents a sound (just like their own language) it really makes things much easier...

Reading is the key.. it is the most powerful tool and greatest gift you can give a young child, unfortunately, in Thailand.. it is overlooked for speaking and listening (the weakest and slowest method to learn English)... but the quickest way to impress the parents with speeches they have committed to memory *but can't comprehend the meaning of lol..

That is why after 15 years of daily study with both foreign and Thai English teachers, thousands of hours - the young adults are barely capable of introducing themselves...

To illustrate my point, *_not to sound condescending_, how many of you guys have lived in Thailand for 10+ years, listening to Thai spoken every day, but are still not any where near fluent in Thai... it's the same for them... just listening (but not comprehending) it's just meaningless sounds..

^ sorry if the above made no sense, I've got a migraine.. 1 more point (before I down a cafergot pill and sleep) English is comprised of over 1 million words.. how long would one take to commit even 10% of those words to memory/sight words? that's why it's like pushing a buffalo up a hill... very slow, slow process..

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## katie23

My 2 cents: 

As a non-native English speaker, the accent (whether US, UK, Aussie, Kiwi) doesn't really matter. What's important is that it's English that is taught. My English teachers were also non-native speakers as they were Filipinas. I think all my elementary & HS English teachers were female. IMHO, I didn't do too bad - I can speak English fluently, for several hours if needed, whether with a Brit, Aussie or American. I also know how to differentiate to/too, your/you're, there/they're/their, which I've noticed that some native speakers don't really pay attention to. I grew up watching Sesame Street, an American kid educational show, and I think that helped a lot, as well as other US cartoons. My niece watched Hi Five, an Australian kiddie show, and I think it helped her too. I've also watched Harry Potter movies (all of them), so now, I can understand the Brit accent too. IMO, the Brits or Americans saying that their form of English is better, that's just BS. To non native speakers, it's just same-same. 

To pragmatic - I spell donut as donut, color, meter, theater, civilization, etc, because we use the American form of English. But I think if I ever live in a country where they use UK English, I can easily switch. Don't stress too much abt ypur kids learning US English, US English is ok.  :Smile: 

Btw, to illustrate how a non native speaker can switch accents, try looking for Leah Salonga's interview in a talk show in the UK. She was still a teen there when she played 'Kim' in Miss Saigon (the musical). When she went to the US to play the same role, she adapted a North American accent. 

Cheers! Sorry for typos, am on fone.

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## cyrille

> I also know how to differentiate to/too, your/you're, there/they're/their, which I've noticed that some native speakers don't really pay attention to.


 :Smile: 

Mentioning no names, like.  :Wink:

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## Pragmatic

> the quickest way to impress the parents with speeches they have committed to memory *but can't comprehend the meaning of lol..


Yes you are absolutely right on that. Private schools are a business and if they can BS the parents into believing their child speaks English, or sounds as if they do, then that can only be good. It's a con that they cannot see.

It was only just recently that I found out my kids, aged 10, 8 & 8, can't use scissors. Their school does not supply them. If they have a lesson whereby they need to cut things they are required to take in a box cutter knife.  :Confused: 

Thanks for your input Katie23

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## NZdick1983

^ Exactly, Pragmatic.

In Thai, they say "puk chee - roy na"...  appearance over substance, making things looks great on the surface, to hide the ugly truth underneath...

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## fishlocker

Now I feel sad as I made it a point to "school" my girlfriend into dropping the ay in okay every time she would text me. You guys were right I would make a lousy English-language teacher. It's back to the old grindstone for this poor boy, at least for now.

Seriously though a rather interesting read this thread. I never would have guessed that NZdick was a science teacher. He had me believing he ran a crew of mudders & painters and sold lipstick panties and cheek Rouge to the boys on the side. Just kidding NZ but I never pictured you as Bill Nye the Science Guy. You rock ,no not sheet rock, Dick!  Science is the coolest thing about school, at least for me it was. It held my interest as we were allowed to do experiments with real chemicals back then. Can one find a real chemistry set these days. I dought it. Jr may spill on himself much less blow something up. I'll admit I had done both.

Spelling and English ick! All those nouns pronouns conjunctions contractions verbs adverbs bla bla bla. I'd do anything I could to skip my sophomore English class. I would stay past my lunch hour and play football against the Jocks right in front of old Mr.Scagans class that I should have been in you see. So did he and thats why he said since you enjoyed my class this much I'll be having you back next year. Tuff love it was and good man he was. He also taught the summer school sailing class that I was obliged to take as I was short on credits.

Art, now thats good fun. We learned centrifical casting in various metals. Rings and things some of wich I entered in the national contests. I heard many years later they still showed slides of some of fishes eggs. My best friend went on to run his own Jewelry store and I worked for him part time for a while. The real success story is that a girl I rode the bus to school with went on to create her own line of jewelry.  The T kohl collection.  She has galleries in Chicago.  Made the rings for the Sopranos.  My older sister said she showed up to her class reunion driving a Ferrari. I'll be dammed if little fish was too stupid not to take the bait back back then as the girl really liked me. Well fish ain't that smart. Talk about the one that got away!

What's all this got to do with teaching. All I got is live and learn. These kids your playing with just may remember you for who you really are.       No joke..............fish.

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## NZdick1983

> Seriously though a rather interesting read this thread. I never would have guessed that NZdick was a science teacher. He had me believing he ran a crew of mudders & painters and sold lipstick panties and cheek Rouge to the boys on the side.


haha... yep, Science/English teacher by day, plasterer by night (or something like that)...





still finding time to sell my skin care products heh...

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## fishlocker

So you really do rock, sheet rock that is. Way cool. I'm a multitasker myself.  A workaholic /alcoholic, trying to curtail the former and the latter. And I do say I have plastered myself more than once. Though still  terrible at it. I'm working on getting plastered now as I have a day off. As for my schooling I was and now am  just a horrendous spiller. That is why I swill right out of the bottle now.You would know by the cloths that I wear. They have poor spiller written all over them. Not only that but they smell well just like, you guessed it................................................  ...........................fish.

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## NZdick1983

555 ^ you're ok, Fish..

When you said Mudding, and sheet rock, that implies you are American, right?
we call is Gib-Stopping in NZ...

I only use American products (NZ products are shite) except for their base coat - for some reason (miracle) it's the best..

Plastering is an art - but still easy compared with teaching.

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## fishlocker

Correct, mud is plaster,sheet rock is gypsum drywall. This however I took down to the studs and screwed on Hardy Backer as it works well in damp areas. Threw in some glass block and tiled after replacing all plumbing with copper and a Kohler tub. A friend gave me a hand with the tub. The old cast iron tub was heavy. It's a hobby of mine that will pay dividends in the long haul. I'm in no rush as the place paid for itself since I snatched it from the bank. Honestly though I'd rather be fishing.

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## NZdick1983

^ I couldn't do all that.. even though I have tilers who I sub-contract work to, I couldn't lay a tile myself, nor building work... (just plastering heh)..

I just stick to what I know (which is fook all really)... I will have to enlist the help of tradesmen to help renovate our rental/airbnb apartments, when we move to Japan/Fukuoka.

I can only do the cosmetic stuff, pull off wallpaper/skim coat and paint..

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## fishlocker

I do it all, alone mostly.  My x brother in law helped me with the tub. I'm not to fond of roofing anymore.  That's too much like work. This place is kinda far from where I live so it's nice that it's  vacant now. I have a bed there and when I do get a few days off I stay there and fiddle with it. 

New sink and counter are in the garage , thats next. I've taught myself over the years. I started young I guess and now eveything is easy except finding the time. Peace out............the fish.

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## Maanaam

I teach at a top government school. 16 classroom hours per week, 1000 baht per hour (and actually, the "hour" is a 50 minute period). I don't "thumb in", I don't stay on site when not teaching.
But I teach high school maths, to M6 level, in the SMA program, and there's not a lot of backpackers or teflers who are available and qualified to replace me. None at all at the moment. So I have a bit of employee power. I have no teaching degree or TEFL certificate, but I can teach maths to that level.
I'm getting bored with it, but won't leave until I can find a good replacement because my students are great, and I don't want to abandon them. They're good and deserve a good teacher.
If there's anybody who wants 1000 baht an hour job, 16 (or more if you want to do English as well) hours per week (minus the missed periods because of student activities!!!!), PM me.
Last week they asked me to sign up as a full-time teacher for next semester. Half the pay, more hours. I said "No thanks", and that was the end of that conversation. I suspect that their budget covers my wages, but they will do two books: One on the 35 000 payment, and one on the part-time payments I get now (to submit to Bangkok), and the director will pocket the difference.
PM me.

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## OhOh

But you don't have a CELTA ........ or whatever the current must have, spent £1,000s, to gain document, proving you are able to pass on knowledge from one generation to another. 

You are certainly living in the third world, no accountability, no freedom to negotiate your contract, diabolical.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

ps. how do your students do in their Thai national maths exams?  :Smile:

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## Maanaam

^ You have no idea what I have or don't have (except that I don't have a degree in education).

80% of my students would run rings around you with mental arithmetic, and even calculus in their heads. Not putting you down, but praising them. 
Just today I put up a problem that involved...let me just show it to you:

If 2x + y = 10, find the minimum value of x^2 + y^2.



I don't know how your maths is, but this problem is a bit tricky when differentiating x with respect to y because an extra step of substitution has to occur to do dy/dx and find the minimum. Obviously the 2nd differential is easy, but the first required a bit of extra thinking.
About 10 of the class of 40 did it mentally, some of those ten I noticed jotted a note or two but basically worked it out in their heads. 20 kids worked it out on paper, and ten were never with the class and doing homework from other subjects.
They (30)all got it right.
No kudos to me, they are just bright kids.

As for negotiating my contract...I do have power. Kids of this calibre need a good teacher. Who else gets what I get, money-wise and hours-wise?

But you do bring up a good point that I have talked about before: Western teachers need to unionise. Currently we are divided and conquered. We are like immigrant fruit-pickers in New Zealand, accepting whatever conditions and pay.

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## NZdick1983

> Western teachers need to unionise. Currently we are divided and conquered. We are like immigrant fruit-pickers in New Zealand, accepting whatever conditions and pay.


Definitely your best post... hit the lulu on the head...  :Smile:

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## Neverna

.........







deleted

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## Maanaam

> ^ You have no idea what I have or don't have (except that I don't have a degree in education).
> 
> 80% of my students would run rings around you with mental arithmetic, and even calculus in their heads. Not putting you down, but praising them. 
> Just today I put up a problem that involved...let me just show it to you:
> 
> If 2x + y = 10, find the minimum value of x^2 + y^2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the red Lulu. Don't know why it deserved one, especially since you haven't the intellect to comment openly in disagreement.

You keep on mentioning that I must be "infuriated"...I think you're projecting, with your self-proclaimed aspirations of being "2nd best poster". It's only you who is infuriated (as I've told you before....do pay attention) and who keeps this childish redding up.

I've already got the last word, I'm so far ahead of you. You'll never catch up....but I'm happy to keep ahead.

When you  childishly call me "retard" or "moron", it's clearly desperation and only a fool would disagree that those names are inaccurate. I don't throw names at you, but could, with accuracy.

And some of those names have nothing to do with your childish brain or narcissistic personality, but more to do with your proclivities.

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## CaptainNemo

> Western teachers need to unionise. Currently we are divided and conquered. We are like immigrant fruit-pickers in New Zealand, accepting whatever conditions and pay.


Nice idea in theory, but in practice any ringleaders are going to get more attention than they want... It's a nod and wink game... you suck it up to subsidise your perpetual holiday, and the authorities turn a blind eye.

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## kingwilly

> I've already got the last word, I'm so far ahead of you. You'll never catch up....but I'm happy to keep ahead.
> 
> When you childishly call me "retard" or "moron", it's clearly desperation and only a fool would disagree that those names are inaccurate. I don't throw names at you, but could, with accuracy.
> 
> And some of those names have nothing to do with your childish brain or narcissistic personality, but more to do with your proclivities


Oh dear.

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## Maanaam

> Originally Posted by Maanaam
> 
> Western teachers need to unionise. Currently we are divided and conquered. We are like immigrant fruit-pickers in New Zealand, accepting whatever conditions and pay.
> 
> 
> Nice idea in theory, but in practice any ringleaders are going to get more attention than they want... It's a nod and wink game... you suck it up to subsidise your perpetual holiday, and the authorities turn a blind eye.


You're right, of course, but it could also work in the education system's favour; An organised mandatory union-type organisation could ensure that teachers are suitable for the job. The union could do the policing for the Thai authorities with respect to background checks, qualification authenticity etc.

Pipe dream: The Farang Teachers Union works and inspires Thai teachers to unionise, which in turn inspires other workers....

Having Thai teachers unionised would be a first tiny step in improving the education system. Properly paid teachers who don't have to waste hours per week sucking up to employers can spend more time teaching.

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## Passing Through

> Pipe dream: The Farang Teachers Union works and inspires Thai teachers to unionise, which in turn inspires other workers....


Nice to see that that toss about the white man's burden isn't quite dead yet, but in fact lives on zombie-like in a high school maths classroom in Shitsticksnowhere.

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## Maanaam

> Pipe dream: The Farang Teachers Union works and inspires Thai teachers to unionise, which in turn inspires other workers....
> 			
> 		
> 
> Nice to see that that toss about the white man's burden isn't quite dead yet, but in fact lives on zombie-like in a high school maths classroom in Shitsticksnowhere.


Nothing to do with white man's burden, mate.
Nothing to do with race at all, except in so far as the FACT that Thai education could do with the teachers unionising, but Thai culture makes it hard to do, and yet a bit of inspiration from outside might tip the scales.
I don't care if it was the Khon Dam Nigerian Teachers Union doing the inspiring.

And you're quite wrong about zombies and Shitsticksnowhere.

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## NZdick1983

^ How long have you been in LOS, Maanaam?

I only ask because most of my teacher friends (except for the old hands) were oblivious to the systemic corruption and megalomaniac profiteering - deeply rooted in the Thai schools.

Everything is about appearance over substance... from the school grounds, buildings, structures, right down to the comments we are limited to write in student books, to the speeches we must rote-teach - infuse  sounds to memory (with limited comprehension)..

Off on a tangent, if I may guys... sorry.

I taught a few kids with learning difficulties - I really loved those kids.
A few problem kids, very disruptive behavior problems in class.

I took them outside individually and spoke to them in Thai. I told them straight-up, I'm here to do the best job I can to educate you.

I can't do that without your help. Your parents paid good money for you to learn, you are dishonoring them by your behavior - must I talk to them?
If you can strike a chord, bring them to tears, I swear on my unborn child, they changed.

Became the nicest kids in my class. Would help me keep discipline, carry my bags, flash cards, laptop, etc... We are much older and wiser than them, if we use Psychology or better still, Thai Psychology to our advantage, we have unlimited power to change minds and hearts, too.

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## Topper

> if we use Psychology or better still, Thai Psychology to our advantage, we have unlimited power to change minds and hearts, too.


That's probably the best advice I've seen in an educational thread in years..

Couple that with giving praise when deserved as loud as the when they're having to be disciplined and much like any child, praise beats the stick any day of the week.

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## OhOh

> ^ You have no idea what I have or don't have (except that I don't have a degree in education).


You must have "missed" the  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  at the end. How are you at millimetre to inch conversion.





> we have unlimited power to change minds and hearts


The fact that a felang lives in the village/town, is seen and accepted by parents and children as "normal" takes away a lot of the stereotypes.

Of course many just reinforce the tales sent back from darkest Pattaya or Bangkok by their older sister. 

 :Smile:

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## Maanaam

> How are you at millimetre to inch conversion.


That's pretty much stuck in my head as I was at primary school when Australia converted to metric.

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## Pregomeister

Because Thailand is a rather nice place and all to live; it's easy to ignore the salaries when you consider the climate, pace of life, food, social life and all that. I never had an issue with the school I worked for either,although I have read about nightmares at other schools. It's also quite easy to become institutionalized IMO.  However, I'm glad I got out off teaching in Thailand and moved onto greener pastures.

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## cyrille

> I'm glad I got out off teaching in Thailand.


Yes, doubtless better for all concerned.

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## NZdick1983

> Yes, doubtless better for all concerned.


Why?  ::chitown::

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## Pregomeister

Cyrille is a little cry baby for Ajarn. A grumpy TEFL lifer stuck in the desert with only his right hand and a bottle of moonshine for company. He takes his bitterness out on other posters. A sad wretch of a man. He calls himself the 'Great Dane' when threatened. Laughable

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## Pragmatic

> I got out off teaching in Thailand and moved onto greener pastures.


 Have you become a farmer?  :Smile:

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by cyrille
> 
> Yes, doubtless better for all concerned.
> 
> 
> Why?


Oh dear.

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## Gazza

> I'm glad I got out off teaching in Thailand





> Yes, doubtless better for all concerned.





> Why?





> I'm glad I got out *off* teaching in Thailand


That's why.
 :Smile:

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## OhOh

> Have you become a farmer?


How can a foreigner become a farmer if he cannot own land. Or do you mean he is paying for his wife's family to "farm"?

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## fishlocker

One can allways squat. Lots of that in the region. 

What the hell is maths? Is it like sciences? I could never be an English teacher as it is too confusing. Damn, and I had a dream.

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## fishlocker

I thought about it and it's the smart people's arithmetic. Go figure. No wonder I'm happy just being the.....well.......fish.

Could be worse.  I once met an endoplasmic reticulum. He was mindless.

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## fishlocker

Why be supercritical when the wind makes the world go around.Don't it?
Barometric pressure is pressing down on me. 
Under pressure,a fishes life.

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## fishlocker

I feel a picture thread comming on. 

X2+X2=2X2. SILLY FISH.I WILL HOLD MY BREATH.

ANYBODY GOT A BENSON BURNER?

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## nidhogg

> ANYBODY GOT A BENSON BURNER?

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## fishlocker

Bunsen burner?

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## fishlocker

Now that is a score! 

Boils me bottom off.

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## fishlocker

You're the best. Way way cool

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## fishlocker

So the question remains when is stuff  really stuff?

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## fishlocker

I have all night.

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## fishlocker

Ďamn I wish I could finish this project.

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## fishlocker

The pressure is on.

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## fishlocker

Ok ,so when is stuff really stuff? 

All this bass stuff . 
got me itchy.

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## AntRobertson

...  :Confused: 

Whoever is teaching you English deserves all the money that they get. And then some.

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## fishlocker

Can anyone explain stuff to me? I'm just a fish you see.

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## fishlocker

I love you ant however the question remains what is stuff?

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## fishlocker

And Ant if you had this"stuff" how would you contain it?

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## AntRobertson

Err, well thanks, but 'Stuff' to me is a news website focusing on NZ-centric items. A bit light and airy-fairy for my liking but a useful reference from time-to-time regardless.

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## fishlocker

Cool, to each his own then.

Fk the science. 

I was hoping to get a rise out of the rest of the boys.

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## fishlocker

I'm not trying to be supercritical but stuff is...........go figure. ......fukin fish.

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## fishlocker

What is spinning at 3600 rpm and is connected to the grid? 

Ant shouldn't grab that! 

Never say an ant can't. 

Someday I gasp the enlish anguage.

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## fishlocker

Powerhouse. 

Silly.

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## fishlocker

The"Who" taught you this "stuff"?


fukin fish.

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## fishlocker

I would like to apologize for yesterday's misgivings.  No excuses other than I was red-nosed  and pale. 

I figure it really doesn't matter what stuff is or where you keep it as long as you know it's yours. 

Maths?

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## NZdick1983

Your mega-weird, Fish... but I love ya!  :Smile: 

course, I'm not weird in the slightest... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## fishlocker

Modern Steam - How Steam Technology Works | HowStuffWorks

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## fishlocker

At that point we call it "stuff." I'm not a good teacher, I guess , alot. 

Those than can do, more power to you. 

I had more than one too many the other day thus I set myself on a Tangent with silly maths.

Next up I'll work on silly walks. As only a fish would do.

May the force be with you.

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## nidhogg

> May the force be with you.

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## Norton

> Can anyone explain stuff to me?


Stuff and my house by George Carlin.  :Smile: 

Actually, this is just a place for my stuff, ya know? That's all; a little place for my stuff. That's all I want, that's all you need in life, is a little place for your stuff, ya know? I can see it on your table, everybody's got a little place for their stuff. This is my stuff, that's your stuff, that'll be his stuff over there.

That's all you need in life, a little place for your stuff. That's all your house is- a place to keep your stuff. If you didn't have so much stuff, you wouldn't need a house. You could just walk around all the time. A house is just a pile of stuff with a cover on it. You can see that when you're taking off in an airplane. You look down, you see everybody's got a little pile of stuff. All the little piles of stuff. And when you leave your house, you gotta lock it up. Wouldn't want somebody to come by and take some of your stuff. They always take the good stuff. They never bother with that crap you're saving. All they want is the shiny stuff. That's what your house is, a place to keep your stuff while you go out and get...more stuff! Sometimes you gotta move, gotta get a bigger house. Why? No room for your stuff anymore.

Did you ever notice when you go to somebody else's house, you never quite feel a hundred percent at home? You know why? No room for your stuff. Somebody else's stuff is all over the goddamn place! And if you stay overnight, unexpectedly, they give you a little bedroom to sleep in. Bedroom they haven't used in about eleven years. Someone died in it, eleven years ago. And they haven't moved any of his stuff! Right next to the bed there's usually a dresser or a bureau of some kind, and there's no room for your stuff on it. Somebody else's shit is on the dresser. Have you noticed that their stuff is shit and your shit is stuff? God! And you say, "Get that shit off of there and let me put my stuff down!"

Sometimes you leave your house to go on vacation. And you gotta take some of your stuff with you. Gotta take about two big suitcases full of stuff, when you go on vacation. You gotta take a smaller version of your house. It's the second version of your stuff. And you're gonna fly all the way to Honolulu. Gonna go across the continent, across half an ocean to Honolulu. You get down to the hotel room in Honolulu and you open up your suitcase and you put away all your stuff. "Here's a place here, put a little bit of stuff there, put some stuff here, put some stuff- you put your stuff there, I'll put some stuff- here's another place for stuff, look at this, I'll put some stuff here." And even though you're far away from home, you start to get used to it, you start to feel okay, because after all, you do have some of your stuff with you.

That's when your friend calls up from Maui, and says, "Hey, why don'tcha come over to Maui for the weekend and spend a couple of nights over here." Oh, no! Now what do I pack? Right, you've gotta pack an even smaller version of your stuff. The third version of your house. Just enough stuff to take to Maui for a coupla days. You get over to Maui- I mean you're really getting extended now, when you think about it. You got stuff all the way back on the mainland, you got stuff on another island, you got stuff on this island. I mean, supply lines are getting longer and harder to maintain.

You get over to your friend's house on Maui and he gives you a little place to sleep, a little bed right next to his windowsill or something. You put some of your stuff up there. You put your stuff up there. You got your Visine, you got your nail clippers, and you put everything up. It takes about an hour and a half, but after a while you finally feel okay, say, "All right, I got my nail clippers, I must be okay." That's when your friend says, "Aaaaay, I think tonight we'll go over the other side of the island, visit a pal of mine and maybe stay over." Aww, no. NOW what do you pack? Right- you gotta pack an even SMALLER version of your stuff. The fourth version of your house. Only the stuff you know you're gonna need. Money, keys, comb, wallet, lighter, hanky, pen, smokes, RUBBERS and change. Well, only the stuff you HOPE you're gonna need.

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## fishlocker

Supercritical Water

Supercritical water is water in a state that exceeds its critical point: 22.1MPa, 374 °C (3208 psia, 705°F). At the critical point, the latent heat of steam is zero, and its specific volume is exactly the same whether considered liquid or gaseous. In other words, water that is at a higher pressure and temperature than the critical point is in an indistinguishable state that is neither liquid nor gas.

It is the state of this stuff that is neither liquid nor gas that I was referring to. Sory for all the confusion. Note to self, fish stay out of the classroom. 

Have a nice day.

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