#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Farming & Gardening In Thailand >  >  Our Little Fish Farm Project.

## mellow

I have been discussing this fish farm project for some time now, and being unable to sleep, I decided to tackle  picture posting, to start this thread. The pictures are pretty much up to date, of where we are with the project now.

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## mellow



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## mellow



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## mellow



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## Hamster

Looks pretty sharpish.  Would you mind sharing what your setup costs were, what your operating costs are, and what your projected monthly income is?

Some family members have a bright idea to start a frog farm.  Just curious is all.  I'm years (decades?) off from moving out of BKK, but....

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## good2bhappy

great thread
great questions Hampster.
I am interested as well

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## sunsetter

wonder where dalton is, he will have lots of sound advice, didnt he used to have a fish farm?

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## forreachingme

Fish being pretty cheap in the market here, you will need huge quantities weekly to make it profitable...

Anyway your setup looks very good, wishing you plenty of success !

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## ozzydom

Here are a couple of sites with very good  info for those interested in Tilapia farming.

http://www.thefishsite.com/articles/238/columnaris-in -tilapia

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/tilapia/Columnaris.php

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## sunsetter

https://teakdoor.com/farming-and-gard...and-ideas.html

https://teakdoor.com/farming-and-gard...fish-farm.html

there ya go, probably some good info there

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## UbonFarang

I'm very interested in this also:

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## Cenovis

> Looks pretty sharpish.  Would you mind sharing what your setup costs were, what your operating costs are, and what your projected monthly income is?
> 
> Some family members have a bright idea to start a frog farm.  Just curious is all.  I'm years (decades?) off from moving out of BKK, but....


Great start mellow, looks very professional.

Hamster; you should tell the family that there are no prince coming out the frogs when they kiss them.....maybe they will go for fish too then.  :mid:

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## mellow

> Looks pretty sharpish.  Would you mind sharing what your setup costs were, what your operating costs are, and what your projected monthly income is?
> 
> Some family members have a bright idea to start a frog farm.  Just curious is all.  I'm years (decades?) off from moving out of BKK, but....


 A frog farm does not require this type of set-up, would be much cheaper. We only started it up a few times, so I really don't know about the operating cost, still waiting on the electrician to make sure all is hooked up correctly , and back up generators. The electrical work looks good, but I want to make sure. Projected monthly income is an unknown factor. Will be selling juvenile fish mostly, what we don't sell, will get put into our 2 ponds to grow out, after reaching 200 grams. I know what it cost us to built, but it would not be an accurate figure. We made mistakes doing this, it wasn't easy. Luckily, we constructed 2 experimental fish farms, which taught us a lot. There's a thread on frog farms on that dreaded other forum.

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## mellow

> wonder where dalton is, he will have lots of sound advice, didnt he used to have a fish farm?


  Dalton's fish farm is not far from us, I went there a few times to look around and ask questions. Unfortunately he left for an overseas job, before we started construction on our. Would have been nice to be able to ask questions about construction. I do know he always had a hard time getting juvenile fish though. There is a government fish farm very close to us, but they had a hard time providing fingerlins, last few times that we wanted some.

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## mellow

> Fish being pretty cheap in the market here, you will need huge quantities weekly to make it profitable...
> 
> Anyway your setup looks very good, wishing you plenty of success !


 Not expecting to get rich off it, but once people see that my wife has a good product, she should be able to make herself a decent income. There will be a learning curve, and all plans always morph.  Thank you for your good wishes.

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## ozzydom

Fry or fingerlings should always be ordered in advance, Nam Sai Farms,and Fisheries Dept at Udon Thani and Sakhon Nakhon have all seen us right.

The latter two also have frog stocks and can show you how to construct housing and give advise on rearing.

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## ozzydom

I Have spent a few hours reading up on past threads on the forum re fish farming especially on the subject of hi-density systems such as Mellow is building. 
According to those threads quite a few folk were either already involved or intended to be involved in this form of fish farming especially using Tilapia (Pla Nin)
I would be interested to know how many are actually involved successfully at this time.

These type of set-ups are usually restricted to countries with temperate climates where there needs to be some control over the water temperatures needed to sustain decent growth rates. Of course these countries command far greater prices for the commodity than is available locally and so the large capitol outlay and the ongoing costs of production can more easily be met.

I have expressed my skepticism regarding the venture to Mellow before but hope that he proves me wrong, meanwhile I will continue to give him any support based on my experience that I possibly can.

My 50 odd years in the fishing industry has taught me that Murphy,s Law applies to fish farming industry also.

We have operated a moderately successful greenwater Tilapia farm in Isaan for 6 years and have had many painful trials and tribulations along the way,just when you think you have a handle on things it turns and kicks you in the a$rse.

I would council those interested in growing a few fish and have land and suitable water available to start off cheaply with a small tractor formed pond and enjoy the experience as you advance.

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## mellow

> I Have spent a few hours reading up on past threads on the forum re fish farming especially on the subject of hi-density systems such as Mellow is building. 
> According to those threads quite a few folk were either already involved or intended to be involved in this form of fish farming especially using Tilapia (Pla Nin)
> I would be interested to know how many are actually involved successfully at this time.
> 
> These type of set-ups are usually restricted to countries with temperate climates where there needs to be some control over the water temperatures needed to sustain decent growth rates. Of course these countries command far greater prices for the commodity than is available locally and so the large capitol outlay and the ongoing costs of production can more easily be met.
> 
> I have expressed my skepticism regarding the venture to Mellow before but hope that he proves me wrong, meanwhile I will continue to give him any support based on my experience that I possibly can.
> 
> My 50 odd years in the fishing industry has taught me that Murphy,s Law applies to fish farming industry also.
> ...


You are quite correct in your advice. It is expensive, but we wanted a system that can be handled by one or 2 people. Since you live in Isaan also, you are probably aware of the lack of reliability of the workers here. A green water(pond) system can be labor intensive, especially while harvesting. While this is compact,and easily harvested. Of course on my part it is only an idea, while you have vast experience.
Thank you for the medication link, and your support

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## Mousepad

I'm in the province next door to you - an Ozzie guy is doing the same thing at the minute but has very 'healthy' family ties ...... a Dutch guy did the same a few years back, pee'd off the neighbours doing the same thing .... he got shot (died). 

Be wary.

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## tsicar

> Originally Posted by sunsetter
> 
> 
> wonder where dalton is, he will have lots of sound advice, didnt he used to have a fish farm?
> 
> 
> Dalton's fish farm is not far from us, I went there a few times to look around and ask questions. Unfortunately he left for an overseas job, before we started construction on our. Would have been nice to be able to ask questions about construction. I do know he always had a hard time getting juvenile fish though. There is a government fish farm very close to us, but they had a hard time providing fingerlins, last few times that we wanted some.


dalton did NOT " go off overseas on an overseas job"
he had to cut and run after ripping people off who invested in his fraud.
his entire operation was a total fraud, initianally set up by some guy he met who knew a bit about aquaculture, progressing to a pipe-dream based on ignorance, and finally developing into a trap for investors, who got burnt by lies fueled by greed and desperation.
i spent two weeks there.
first day i walked around, impressed by the infrastructure and the obvious cost of setting up such a venture, being impressed by the huge tonnage of grown-out fish being moved out on a daily basis.
then i started talking to the workers, after discovering one of them netting out and dumping large numbers of dead fish from the grow-out tanks very early every morning, i discovered that the only fish being sold were ones he bought in from the thais and then moved on. huge losses due to bad handling here, too.
input costs were too high:
electricity usage was astronomical (he never did his homework)-dozens of superchargers driven by electric motors supplying air via airstones which did little to enhance the oxygen content of the water.
tanks could not drain properly, biofilter was a disaster. feedmill producing soya-based feed with underusage of protien potential because the soya was not uht (soya needs to be heated to above 100 degrees celsius for around an hour if its high protien potential is to become available.)
lies and bullshit about producing his own fingerlings. abuse of investment funds,
dalton's "farm" was never EVER a viable operation, and was doomed from the start.
i think if you look back in some of the threads here, you would find some by myself, diplomatically steering people away from using the dalton model as a reason to start intensive culture of tilapia.
i tried really hard not to have to let the truth come out without screwing dalton over, since he was a respected poster on here, but there are people here who could have lost a lot of money following bullshit advice, and thus i felt compelled to intervene.
i think mellow has a chance, since his biofilter seems to be more suited to what he needs for his operation.
i would dump the supercharger and airstone idea though, and match flow from pumps to water exchange requirements, halving electricity costs, perhaps use an airlift system to the tanks from the filters, which would make efficient use of a blower while oxyenating at the same time.
and of course, i would ditch the evil and inefficient overflow upstand pipe system for swivelling upstand type so that solids would automatically flow from bottom of tank instead of collecting at the base and allowing clean filtered water out of the top of the tanks back to the filters.
perhaps some experimentation with greenwater to lower feed costs, too: i know that saltwater fish and shelfish are being raised in recirculating systems using only algae as feed, so it should be possible to combine the two types of system.
i am a huge fan of recirculating systems, but the setup and operation needs extremely carefull thought and planning.
pencil, paper and calculator are still the key to ANY business venture, no less so in aquaculture.
input costs are easy to calculate.
starting small-scale and keeping accurate daily records will tell you where you are going, and where you might be going wrong.
following bullshit advice from ameteurs who lie to attract investors or to boost their own egos will get you into the poorhouse.

sorry guys, but it needed to be said.

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## mellow

Hello tsicar: Don't know about dalton's personal agenda, nor his operating costs. As far as his setup goes, I didn't like his mechanical filtration system, because there was no way to drain it and clean it efficiently. Nor did it have a by-pass around the filters, if it would of had such drains. The whole system would of needed to be shut down in order to do so, and the filter tanks drained, and cleaned using a sump pump and labor. Each filter tank in our system has a stand pipe, which can be pulled out. The water drained from the system completely, rinsed, and re-filled, while the system keep running using the by-pass ( will take photos of this today). Also the bio-filters have bottom drain valves, dalton's did not, although he did install them later.
 We use 2 water pumps, each being 1Kw or 0.75 KW( have to look), and a blower which will be used for 2 systems when all set up.
 The fish food is the greatest expense, especially once the fish reach past the 200 gram stage, and that's the reason why we want to sell them at that point.
 I know you don't like the upstand pipes. In each of these tanks there are two, one for water recirculating( has skimmer like cup in photo), the other is used to drain out the bottom of the tank and flush any waste dirrectly out of the system.

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## ozzydom

Mellow, I have crunched a few numbers based on the info you have provided and my own experience,I would not bet my left nut on the accuracy as I am a farmer not a maths expert but they should be in the ball park.
Based on your figure of 44amps per hour useage your power cost is going to run you to about 15,000 baht /month.

Your fish food cost is harder to calculate because Pla Nin have different food requirements (size/ protein %) at different stages of development.
Fry at say 1 gram require starter powder of about 50% protein at a rate of up to 30% of body weight per day and should be fed in small portions about 8 times per day.
Good starter powder is hard to come by ,Nam Sai Farm makes their own so is probably the best bet.

At 5-20 gram they should be fed at 5 % bodyweight per day ,spread over 3 feeds of 5 hour intervals. At this stage they should be on very small pellets of 45 % protein.

At 20-100 gram 4 % of b/w should suffice at about 30-35% protein and over 100 g should be about the same.

It is hard to calculate actual costs because Pla Nin go through growth bursts , ie.
they grow like weeds from 1-20 grams then slow a bit to 100 gram and really slow up by comparison to 200gram.
In a system such as yours ,32% protein should be about as low as you should go.

 So ,at 200 gram b/w x 5000 fish (50 tanks [at]100) = 1000kg liveweight x 4% is approx 40kg per day which ,depending on your purchase price is getting up to 1000 baht per day.

A couple of points to remember is that Tilapia have very small stomachs in comparison to most other fishes and excess intake will pass directly to the intestines instead of the stomach and so be wasted. This is why regular smaller feedings is important. And smaller pellet size is better than bigger.

Lots of time should be spent observing your fish at feeding time to learn when they are satiated, as over feeding is a waste (and places extra burden on your system) underfeeding will result in lower growth rates.

I have serious doubts about your most recent idea of selling mainly 200 gram fish for growing on, this market is limited to the period of the mango rains ,April /May 
when the local earth ponds start to fill, some farmers put a few in then to grow on till Xmas when they start to dry up again.
Your idea of tossing them into your 2 ponds at 200grams to grow on has problems as you are going to have to hand catch (cast net ) for the market.
This is problematical as they quickly get net shy and are very difficult to catch.
Out the window goes your low labor input.
As well you will in all likelihood end up with mixed size and age groups in the one pond because it may take up to 4 months to get the fish from 200gram to market size.

Ponds should be pumped out and dried and limed after each cycle, with mixed size fish this is nigh impossible.
I try to only net every third day and keep about 3 days market quantity in floating 1inch mesh holding nets (4m x 4m x1m deep)from which we just dip net our requirements and orders.
When the fish start to get thin on the ground we start to pump the ponds down and over 3or 4 days we catch the remaining fish and place in holding nets in an adjacent pond so that we can start "curing" the empty pond ,drying out takes up to 3 weeks in good weather then we refill ,fertilize and get our water up to par and restock with fingerling size which we have grown on in floating hapa,s.

In summary ,I believe that your overheads are going to be to high ,but I think your original idea of growing the fish on in situ to market size is your best bet if you insist on going with Tilapia.

I really think as Tsicar says,your system is far more suited to wholesale catfish because of the much higher carrying capacity and shorter turnover with cats.

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## mellow

^ Thanks ozzydom, will reply in full this evening, just wanted to post a photo, I uploaded during lunch time. The photois of the filter by-pass, I mentioned in a previous post.

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## mellow

Ozzydom, 44 amps is for running 2 systems. The system which is currently ready to start up is 24 amps. The 2 water pumps rated at 8.6 amps each(17.2amps) and the blower 6.8amps(to be used for both systems). Still about 8000 baht/month.
 The feed cost for the  grow out  of Tilapia in tanks seems to be pretty prohibitive. I don't have any figures on growing out  Thai catfish right now, need to research it. I would imagine that feed prices would be about the same though. Hate to think this was all a wasted effort and money.

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## crazyswede

*How very interesting ... the first posts anyway! *

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## tsicar

> Ozzydom, 44 amps is for running 2 systems. The system which is currently ready to start up is 24 amps. The 2 water pumps rated at 8.6 amps each(17.2amps) and the blower 6.8amps(to be used for both systems). Still about 8000 baht/month.
> The feed cost for the grow out of Tilapia in tanks seems to be pretty prohibitive. I don't have any figures on growing out Thai catfish right now, need to research it. I would imagine that feed prices would be about the same though. Hate to think this was all a wasted effort and money.


the catfish feed would probably be more expensive. i don't know what the tilapia require protein-wise for optimum growth but i seem to recall having read that it is lower then that of cats.
the catfish would grow out much faster, and COULD be farmed at a fcr of around  1:1, but ALL THE CONDITIONS have to be right to acheve this, and there are a couple of limiting factors in thailand.
one is the perception that the thais will only buy the "beeg oei" variety (truth is that they mostly cannot tell the difference), which is slower growing (more costly to rear in terms of electricity etc)
the second is the poor quality of fingerlings available in thailand:
to make the whole thing work, they all need to grow out at roughly the same rate.
this means that non performing fish have to be culled out at fingerling stage, or two scenarios will result.
the stronger fish will happily gobble up the smaller ones (if you are lucky), or you will end up raising 50% of time wasters, which will send the fcr through the roof and get you a step closer to the poorhouse.
fortunately catfish are very easy to breed artificially, although keeping the fry alive for the first couple of weeks or so will have you sleeping in two-hour shifts, but it is worth it if you consider:
not having to pay for 5000 fingerlings (around the standard in thailand to produce 1 ton of the preferred size of saleable fish) at around 1baht each means a cost savings of thb 5000 per ton (less feed costs).
since the profit on one ton of grown-out catfish would be around 10000thb (optimistic projection), this is a HUGE cost savings.
culling out of non performers costs almost nothing since one artificial spawning will give you between 50000 to around 500000 or more fry, so you will not end up feeding fish that are hell bent on destroying your profit margin.
obviously the longer you spend rearing the fish, the more money they are going to cost you in a recirculating system, so you need to stuff the buggers with as much of the correct type of feed as they can convert and get them the hell out of your system before they become a liability.

what all this means is simply that one has to work on every aspect of cost saving on an ongoing basis, innovate and improve, hone and polish and control and research, since the sale price in thailand is relatively low in relation to input costs.
i never raised tilapia, but even trying to make a buck out of the much easier to rear (i would think),catfish is a real challenge.

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## DaffyDuck

> Your idea of tossing them into your 2 ponds at 200grams to grow on has problems as you are going to have to hand catch (cast net ) for the market.
> This is problematical as they quickly get net shy and are very difficult to catch.
> Out the window goes your low labor input.


Couldn't you line the ponds, when they are pumped out and clean, with a fine mesh net, which you raise when it's harvest time, and thus net pretty much the entire batch. Properly done, you can raise it with an overhead structure and maintain low labor for the catch.

Would this work?

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## ozzydom

> Originally Posted by ozzydom
> 
> 
> Your idea of tossing them into your 2 ponds at 200grams to grow on has problems as you are going to have to hand catch (cast net ) for the market.
> This is problematical as they quickly get net shy and are very difficult to catch.
> Out the window goes your low labor input.
> 
> 
> Couldn't you line the ponds, when they are pumped out and clean, with a fine mesh net, which you raise when it's harvest time, and thus net pretty much the entire batch. Properly done, you can raise it with an overhead structure and maintain low labor for the catch.
> ...


Daffy, the problem is the ponds can be large ,anything from 1/2 rai (800 sq met)to 5 rai (8000 sq met )imagine what a tailor made net for that would cost.
However they can be harvested with a seine net,which is slung across a pond and drawn slowly to one end , forcing the fish into a smaller area for catching.

But (there,s always a but ) this is only suitable if you are disposing of your fish to a wholesaler who can handle the lot in one go,and at the price they will pay the whole project is uneconomical.
The very uneven growth rate of Tilapia creates a problem as wholesalers want a uniform size and to get anything like uniform you have to understock to possibly 1/2 to 1 fish per sq metre of pond,again uneconomical.
From when the first fish in any batch are suitable for market (say 500gram ) it may take another two months to get the remainder up to size and even then many have to be sold at less than C.O.P.or transferred to another pond to grow on further.

Net grown fish (and systems such as mellows ) do not have quite the same problem as they dont have access to natural food they are fed at much higher rates and of course much higher costs.
As tsicar has many times pointed out,the problem in T,land is the high cost of food and the low market prices,so the only way to make profit is to keep overheads down and have good farm practises.

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## ozzydom

> Ozzydom, 44 amps is for running 2 systems. The system which is currently ready to start up is 24 amps. The 2 water pumps rated at 8.6 amps each(17.2amps) and the blower 6.8amps(to be used for both systems). Still about 8000 baht/month.
>  The feed cost for the  grow out  of Tilapia in tanks seems to be pretty prohibitive. I don't have any figures on growing out  Thai catfish right now, need to research it. I would imagine that feed prices would be about the same though. Hate to think this was all a wasted effort and money.


 :Smile:  Perseverance mate ,I am sure you can make it work, I am sure that tsicar will tell you how many cats you can put through your system, as RBH on another forum says,if you can put through 500,000 cats at 1 baht apiece profit its not to be sneezed at.

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## mellow

> Originally Posted by mellow
> 
> 
> Ozzydom, 44 amps is for running 2 systems. The system which is currently ready to start up is 24 amps. The 2 water pumps rated at 8.6 amps each(17.2amps) and the blower 6.8amps(to be used for both systems). Still about 8000 baht/month.
>  The feed cost for the  grow out  of Tilapia in tanks seems to be pretty prohibitive. I don't have any figures on growing out  Thai catfish right now, need to research it. I would imagine that feed prices would be about the same though. Hate to think this was all a wasted effort and money.
> 
> 
>  Perseverance mate ,I am sure you can make it work, I am sure that tsicar will tell you how many cats you can put through your system, as RBH on another forum says,if you can put through 500,000 cats at 1 baht apiece profit its not to be sneezed at.


  Perseverance is a must, as we will continue on the project. The electrician was here all morning, we tested the entire system. He brought a gauge to see exactly what each pump is working on. The 2 water pumps, although identical, run at different amps. One is 6.1 amp the other 5.6, for a total of 11.7 amps. The air blower works at 7.2 amps, for a grand total of 18.9 amps. So at least the electric bill is dropping already.
  I believe that these Thai catfish (Pla Duc) don't need additional air, or I think that's what tsicar has said before. In which case our electric cost is quite small. Also the stocking rates of these catfish is higher then that of Tilapia for his kind of system.
  Even if they are the same, that would amount to 5,000 fish grown out to 450gram. This is based on studies of Tilapia. Here is the link for this study:
http://www.thefishsite.com/articles/...ure-of-tilapia

  I have a simular study done here in Thailand, which also gives the feed needed as so far as % of protein, for the size of the fish ( in this type of system). A downloaded PDF, for which I have no link, but its in English. I need this same info for these catfish if anyone has it. We will also go to the goverment fish farm here to see what they got.
  It would seem to me, that using 11.7 amps of electric per month is not much of an added operating cost, and the fish would eat the same amount of feed as they would in a pond situation. From what I have read in the past, these fish are extremely hardy.
 Lets see if tsicar has the info and links to this info. We will get the fish and the feed, and see how it all works out, right here on this forum. I'm getting a water exchange rate of about 1hr for this system, and the atainable tonnage tsicar dictates on this link
https://teakdoor.com/farming-and-gard...ml#post1315319
 is way more then I can afford to feed. Will have to start smaller, and work our way up, as in all things.
  I discussed spray bars with tsicar in the past, so this picture is for him. We have 3 bio-filters for this system, all have exactly the same spray bars. We have an extra one at hand, so they can be changed out for cleaning.

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## tsicar

> Originally Posted by ozzydom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by mellow
> ...


i am no expert on aquaculture:
just one poor slob who made most of the mistakes, then found the fascinating site from rhodes university the link to which i posted here before.
the high density thing is totally amazing, especially regarding catfish, which they tested to a density of nearly 1000kg per cubic metre tank.
considering that 1 cubic metre of water weighs 1 ton, it seems that these fish were only just moist, not actually swimming.
the catfish need no dissolved oxygen after one month of age, although i would think that it could only be beneficial to the process.
mellow's filter looks really good, and i like the way he has incorporated two different complementary models in his system.
the real breakthrough for me was producing my own fingerlings, for reasons i previously mentioned.
nutrition and rearing for these fish has been studied and documented for many years.
best feed you will get in thailand is around 35%protien (the smallest pellets they sell) and this is the minimum you should use throughout the rearing process.
tapering off down to the larger cheaper pellets will actually cost you more, coz the fish will not grow at 18% pellets, and will spend more time and more to rear in your system.
why not stock just one tank for starters, with around 2000 fingerlings (for sale size of around 5 fish per kg)-= 400kg/cubic metre, which is about what the tests have shown to be the best stocking rate (but nowhere near the maximum), as a test.
you could possibly buy fry if they are cheap enough, but quite honestly if you are prepared to go through the hassle of keeping them alive, then it is worth just producing them yourself.
i can help you with this. it is far easier than you would think!
don't waste your time with the "beeg ooei" variety, get the "pladook yak", a faster growning type (actually, african catfish-clarias gariepinus, which are hardier and grow out faster than the macrocephalus x gariepinus version the thais prefer to raise )
you could then compare figures with how the tilapia perform, then perhaps do both, or settle on one of the two.
please remember what i said about producing your own fingerlings and culling out non performing fish, though, if you really want to get the thing making a profit.
i will gladly help where i can, and happily send you any info that helped me.
btw, your greatest friend in rearing fry or fingerlings is formaldehyde!
gotta keep it out of your biofilter, but a good bath in the right concentration before introducing new fish to your system will prevent the spread of disease as well as helping prevent the fungal infections that often affect fish after the stress of relocation. (usually noticed by aspirant catfish farmers on the third to fifth day after stocking their new, expensive, sick catfish fingerlings, when they float belly-up around the edges of the pond!)

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## mellow

^ Tsicar; I saw that study at one time or another, but I have no intention of pushing this system to such an extreme. It seems that the desired size for Pla Duk is around 3 to 5 fish per kilo, around the 250g mark. I would rather start out a bit on the conservative side, to see how well this system functions along with the fish, but still make a profit, then work our way up. For this I need a feeding ratio per body weight, as well as the growth period, and recommended stocking rates for an RAS. Once I have that, I can figure out cost of feed, fingerlins , electric, and a worker, which will give me a break even point, and go from there.
  Doing my own hatchery, will have to be down the road a ways, when I can grow out some nice adult fish. I already have the set up for that, from the experiments we did, figuring out how to build this system, and what works best.
  32% protein feed, is around 450 baht to 480 baht per bag. If there are 15000 fish in the system, trying out different feeds of varying protein levels in order to compare grow out performance, would seem like a logical thing to do. Again fact sheets relating to this, would be nice to have. Thanks for your help. There is a poster on the TV forum, who has quite a catfish operation using ponds. Worth a read or two.

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## tsicar

> ^ Tsicar; I saw that study at one time or another, but I have no intention of pushing this system to such an extreme. It seems that the desired size for Pla Duk is around 3 to 5 fish per kilo, around the 250g mark. I would rather start out a bit on the conservative side, to see how well this system functions along with the fish, but still make a profit, then work our way up. For this I need a feeding ratio per body weight, as well as the growth period, and recommended stocking rates for an RAS. Once I have that, I can figure out cost of feed, fingerlins , electric, and a worker, which will give me a break even point, and go from there.
> Doing my own hatchery, will have to be down the road a ways, when I can grow out some nice adult fish. I already have the set up for that, from the experiments we did, figuring out how to build this system, and what works best.
> 32% protein feed, is around 450 baht to 480 baht per bag. If there are 15000 fish in the system, trying out different feeds of varying protein levels in order to compare grow out performance, would seem like a logical thing to do. Again fact sheets relating to this, would be nice to have. Thanks for your help. There is a poster on the TV forum, who has quite a catfish operation using ponds. Worth a read or two.


on the high protien feed in a good system, with good fingerlings, you could achieve a fcr of around 1:1
so this means your ton of catfish is going to cost around one ton of feed and around 45 to 55 days of electricity to rear. (good catfish eat 10% of bodyweight per day and 10% increase in bodyweight per day.
lower stocking rates, believe it or not, do not work as well, so the standard is around 450 kg per tank.
try find that link i posted, it is all in there-quite fascinating, and if you read it, you will be hooked!
don't waste your time messing with lower protien feeds, all that happens is the fcr will deteriorate, so it ACTUALLY COSTS MORE to rear them on the cheaper feed!:
i once calculated what it would cost to feed my fish on minced up chicken offal that i could buy in at 5thb per kg.... and it worked out more expensive than the high protien feed that way!
has all been done before, and you won't make any breakthroughs that the university studies didn't make over 30 years. 
i read the posts on the other forum, and i believe the guy is deluding himself at best.
he is farming catfish the way the thai villagers do.
absolutely no way he can achieve the results he claims given the water temps he published, the feeds he uses, and the fact that he grows out the non performing fish instead of discarding them. 
add to that the fact that the guy is wasting money running aerators that the catfish don't need, feeding them some "wonder medicine" (probably oxytetracycline, and some em) which is unnecessary and futile and he will be making a huge loss.
i went that route before, also thought i was making a profit, but in reality a steady loss was eating me up without me realising it, since i was ignoring the fact that half the fish were not growing, then throwing them back to feed some more, then getting them mixed in with the next batch and so on, until there was no way i could get accurate assessment of what i was doing.

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## mellow

^Found all the info, thanks. Doesn't give the projected grow out period for fish to reach a certain size though.

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## BillyBobThai

It seems to me, that having a small pond filled with aquatic plants, water lilies and the such, could aid in the cleaning of the water and to add as a buffer in the system. The plants will allow another water cleaning process to take place.  My plans for a system, were to have the fish tanks  (1.5 m3), funnel shaped to allow all of the waste water and solids escape from the bottom on a continual basis. This waste would be sent to a tank where the solids were collected from the bottom of the tank and expelled, and the water from the separation tank, would then go to a small pond, about 3-m2, for each fish tank, filled with aquatic plants, water lilies and the like, to aid in the cleaning of the water. From the pond, the water would then go to a gravel and coarse sand filter before going to a bio-filter and then sent back to the fish tanks for another cycle.   I have little experience in aquaculture, but it seems like having these plants would allow yet another level of cleaning to the water.     *tsicar*,     I would like to hear what your thoughts are on having a small pond with aquatic plants as part of the system.

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## jizzybloke

What advantage would a planted pond offer on top of the gravel, sand and boi-filter process, i can't see there'd be any at all?

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## mellow

> It seems to me, that having a small pond filled with aquatic plants, water lilies and the such, could aid in the cleaning of the water and to add as a buffer in the system. The plants will allow another water cleaning process to take place.  My plans for a system, were to have the fish tanks  (1.5 m3), funnel shaped to allow all of the waste water and solids escape from the bottom on a continual basis. This waste would be sent to a tank where the solids were collected from the bottom of the tank and expelled, and the water from the separation tank, would then go to a small pond, about 3-m2, for each fish tank, filled with aquatic plants, water lilies and the like, to aid in the cleaning of the water. From the pond, the water would then go to a gravel and coarse sand filter before going to a bio-filter and then sent back to the fish tanks for another cycle.   I have little experience in aquaculture, but it seems like having these plants would allow yet another level of cleaning to the water.     *tsicar*,     I would like to hear what your thoughts are on having a small pond with aquatic plants as part of the system.


 That would work, but you would need a much bigger pond probably. If you where to use Duckweed, which is a good filtration plant, you could turn around and feed it to the fish also. It grows like crazy.

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## mellow

Yesterday we stocked 4 tanks with 2000 fingerlings in each. We are going to see how it all works out. We made screens out of that plastic screen stuff with the holes in it, so they don't jump out. Also got a 5 KV generator for the water pumps, in case of electrical failure.

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## jizzybloke

^Talipia or catfish?

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## mellow

^ Catfish

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## mellow

I hope that posting a personal PM is OK on the forum. Tsicar who is jailed at the moment has sent me a couple of PM's. I will do some copy and paste.

 Quote:
                         Originally Posted by *mellow* 
_ Quote:
                         Originally Posted by tsicar 
hi mellow.
watch those fingerlings carefully.
the first week or so is the most critical.
lactic acid buildup from stress of transport etc leaves them very vulnerable to fungal infections.
don't overfeed for the first few days, then feed twice a day as much as they will consume at a time.
DO NOT wet the pellets first, as the thais will tell you to do.
although they will sometimes "hang" in the surface film after feeding well, you need watch for this type of behaviour, plus any signs of fungus on mouthparts and fins.
stock up with some formalin. the link you read from rhodes university will give you the dosages.
actually a good idea to dose twice a day for the first week or two just as a precaution.:
lower the water level, dilute the formalin and either spray it in or pour with watering can to evenly distribute, leave for about an hour, then rinse your tank thoroughly, you won't want the formalin killing your filter.
sorry i can't contribute on the thread coz i am in the clink, but feel free to post this pm if you like.
best regards
tsicar

Hi tsicar; Thanks for your interest. On the second day the fish are doing very well. I am feeding them 10% of their body weight, and yes I have been wetting the pellets for about 5-10 minutes prior to giving it to them. Apparently this is not correct. Tomorrow I will give the feed to them dry. When I feed them its a real feeding frenzy in the tanks. You say that after a few days, to feed them as much as they will consume. If so, how long does that go on for?
As for formalin, where would be a source to obtain some? What kind of store. Pharmacy?
Right now the fish look fine though. Tomorrow I will do a 5% water change. I did water tests on it today. and all looks fine. I have a small air pump, and want to aerate the filter chambers with it. Its a new system, and it needs to establish itself. Hope I didn't put too many fish in there in there to start it up, but I doubt it.
Are you sure one can post PM's? If so I'll try and do it. 
Thank you for your helpfull input on this. Mellow._

formalin(also called formaldehyde) should be obtainable through your local pharmacy, but cheaper if you can get the local government hospital to supply you- that's where i got mine from, they use it as a disinfectant. it is a powerfull disinfectant, kills all fungus and bacteria, but harmless to your fish if at the correct concentration.
when i breed catfish, both the eggs and the fry are permanently kept in a formalin solution, with no harm to them.
most pellets are "finished" with a spray of fish oil, and if you soak them you lose this nutrient.
the pellets are meant to be consumed dry.
feed the fish as much as they can consume twice a day. the 10% rule is an average, sometimes they will eat less, and sometimes more, but you don't want uneaten pellets left over to foul your water.
growth rate, but not fcr will taper off the larger they get, and most fish are raised over here for 6months to one kg weight, the fastest rate occurs from now until about 300gr., meaning good quality fry should grow out in around 45 days!
your fish should be ready for sale in less than two months (sonkraan: velly good time to sell catfish!!)
i don't think you put too much fish in there, but as you say, the filter is new, and needs to start producing the bacteria. your catfish will supply the nutrients for the filter.
no need for water changes as long as nitrate is not going over the top.
the feeding frenzy you see is the key to the whole thing. at high stocking rates they grow faster because the little buggers eat more because of this, and grow faster!
you are stocked for arounf 400kg of fish (at thai growout size)per tank, and you will know if it all worked correctly after you have thrown in 400kg of feed per tank and the fish have reached sale size.
don't worry about posting my pms, i will post some more when/if i ever get out.

cheers

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## Deris

Nice operation.

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## mellow

Yesterday the wife, and her 2 workers cleaned and replaced the water in 33 tanks. They scrubbed the walls with a brush to remove the slime just like sticar suggested , and rinsed them out prior to re-fill. The only tanks which didn't have a lot of slime where the 5 tanks containing the fish. These where half way drained and slowly re-filled so as not to change the water temperature too much. Next week they will tackle the other 18 tanks. The filters were not touched and are getting pretty nasty already only after 2 days. I would imagine that the settling tank would need to be drained at some point though, will see what tsicar has to say. The fish seem to be fine though, even after living with these high nitrites. Today we will take some water test  readings and I will post them later.

 The thread got split here:
https://teakdoor.com/farming-and-gard...e-updates.html (aquaculture: updates?)
 I am trying to get it to stay all in one place.

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## tsicar

> Yesterday the wife, and her 2 workers cleaned and replaced the water in 33 tanks. They scrubbed the walls with a brush to remove the slime just like sticar suggested , and rinsed them out prior to re-fill. The only tanks which didn't have a lot of slime where the 5 tanks containing the fish. These where half way drained and slowly re-filled so as not to change the water temperature too much. Next week they will tackle the other 18 tanks. The filters were not touched and are getting pretty nasty already only after 2 days. I would imagine that the settling tank would need to be drained at some point though, will see what tsicar has to say. The fish seem to be fine though, even after living with these high nitrites. Today we will take some water test readings and I will post them later.
> 
> The thread got split here:
> https://teakdoor.com/farming-and-gard...e-updates.html (aquaculture: updates?)
> I am trying to get it to stay all in one place.


mellow, don't worry about the tanks that don't have any fish in them.
just an occasional sweep around the bottom with a hard broom will be ok in the rearing tanks. mostly this is only necessary with really small fish.
can you do a nitrite test in the rearing tanks and one on the water entering the tank from the filter?.
perhaps reduce flow to the tanks not housing fish, then increase flow to rearing tanks with fish, could help also.
you need the anaerobic bacteria in the settling tanks as well, so leave them alone for as long as possible before cleaning.

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## mellow

We tested the water yesterday, and the Nitrite level continues to be maxed out on the tests' color chart. This after a 50% water change on the previous day. Today we will do a Nitrite test on the water leaving the bio-filter, prior to it reaching the tanks. Did a control test on the test kit using just plain clean water from the well, just to make sure that the reagents are working properly, and not contaminated or outdated. It showed no Nitrites present. Changed half the water in the rearing tanks.
 The fish continue to look healthy, they are eating well, and there is no unusual behavior. Two samples were weighed out, showing that the average fish is now 10 grams, up from 2.5g in 24 days.
 The water flow rate to the rearing tanks has been maximized for some time now. But all the tanks are getting a recirculating water flow. The non stocked  tanks contain a lot of  scum or sludge as compared to the rearing tanks, I presume this is due to not having fish swimming around, and pushing the sediments up through the up stand pipes. Kind of a self cleaning action caused by the fish movement.
 We are considering sharply increasing the filtration media tomorrow. Right now we have a dozen radiator type media holders in the mechanical filters, these can be bunched up, and the media pretty much doubled.

 Here are some photos of the media holders.

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## highlander

mellow how are things coming along with the fish guess some of them are of marketable size by now,

just got back from los where i set the ball rolling with a couple of concrete  drain rings

scotty

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## mellow

> mellow how are things coming along with the fish guess some of them are of marketable size by now,
> 
> just got back from los where i set the ball rolling with a couple of concrete  drain rings
> 
> scotty


 We sorted out a couple of tanks yesterday, and about 1/4 of the fish are reaching the 300gram size, half of the fish are around 200 grams, and the remaining 1/4 are smaller. Although fed to saturation twice a day, cannibalism is a problem with this species.

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## highlander

mellow have you any idea what kind of percentage have been canabalized, i guess it would be difficult to find out , unless you actually counted the fish..

regards scotty

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## mellow

We have been loosing about one per tank, per day of late. Sometimes 2 in a tank.

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## 2bigyellow

I would luv 2 do this in the Philippines. I would have a hard time keeping the pamily from eating all the FISH!!!!!!!!!

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## Goshiki

Hi,

Can Tilapia be grown at high-stocking densities in concrete ponds with the correct filtration and oxygenation.

feeding only by means of pellets mixed with other food sources.

Purchasing sex-reversed fingerlings.

Nothing big scale, we talking 4/5 10,000 liter concrete ponds.

Would appreciate any advice, don't live in thailand yet, but plan to live on farm near Lam Plai Mat,Buriram within next 2 - 3 years and need to just sustain and sell to local markets?


Regards

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## mellow

> Hi,
> 
> Can Tilapia be grown at high-stocking densities in concrete ponds with the correct filtration and oxygenation.
> 
> feeding only by means of pellets mixed with other food sources.
> 
> Purchasing sex-reversed fingerlings.
> 
> Nothing big scale, we talking 4/5 10,000 liter concrete ponds.
> ...


 The problem is with the electric bill , as compared with the return.

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## Nawty

How is your fish venture going ?

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## mellow

> How is your fish venture going ?


 Its going OK. We have stopped the  pumps a long time ago, because of the electric bill. Been doing water changes instead. Have a few customers, a few more, and the wife should be seeing some profits.

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## Nawty

What about solar pumps ? Would they work ?

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## tsicar

> Originally Posted by Nawty
> 
> 
> How is your fish venture going ?
> 
> 
> Its going OK. We have stopped the pumps a long time ago, because of the electric bill. .


you did the right thing

the cut-off point for growout to 200grams is 60 days (absolute maximum).
if you feed them or run the pumps after this you are into a loss.
after 60 days you should dump them on a wholesaler or sell them off at a discount. (they are time wasters and will put you in the poorhouse)

they should be grown out at 45 days if you started with good quality inch long fingerlings.

remember to keep a few of the fastest growing females plus about 20 of the biggest males for broodstock. (you can spawn the females almost every month but the males mostly have to be slaughtered to obtain sperm, although there is supposed to be a method whereby part of the testis can be removed without killing the fish-you need to extract the hormone from the hypothalamus of a large fish anyway, so it makes sense to use the same fish) 

only selective breeding and ruthless culling will produce the kind of fingerlings you need that will perform properly, after a generation or two.

only poor quality catfish fingerlings available in thailand, because the market for them is ignorant and the thais mostly only harvest once a year, so they get away with it, but in your high density system the average thai hatchery stuff is almost useless.

the profit margin in thailand is low too, so apart from saving electricity and feed on non performing fish, you can save much of the cost of the fingerlings as well if you breed your own.

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## Goshiki

Mellow and Tsicar thank you for the advise, you guys certainly impart some valuable info.

It's tough prospect for one considering a move to Thailand, seems to be little in terms of income options even if you willing to put in the extra manual work.

For me I want to try everything,little bit of each and see what works and literally make enough for sustaining the happy go lucky Thailand farm lifestyle and a few beers here and there.  The wife of course desperate to be with the family etc.

On the hit list
Tilapia farming - small scale (possible giant freshwater prawns: polyculture)Bee farming - small scale (sell to locals)Mushroom growing - small scale (sell again to locals and maybe markets)English teaching - as much as possible to make ends meetMaybe Avo trees if can grow - small scaleand any other sellable veg, herbs, flowers (for temple etc)Lastly hammock lying,beer drinking - as much as the wife and money allows ha hasuppose gotta help with the rice making too!!!Surely this covers all the bases?? and one's or all have to cover it, any suggestions

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## RedBullHorn

> Originally Posted by mellow
> 
> 
> ^ Tsicar; I saw that study at one time or another, but I have no intention of pushing this system to such an extreme. It seems that the desired size for Pla Duk is around 3 to 5 fish per kilo, around the 250g mark. I would rather start out a bit on the conservative side, to see how well this system functions along with the fish, but still make a profit, then work our way up. For this I need a feeding ratio per body weight, as well as the growth period, and recommended stocking rates for an RAS. Once I have that, I can figure out cost of feed, fingerlins , electric, and a worker, which will give me a break even point, and go from there.
> Doing my own hatchery, will have to be down the road a ways, when I can grow out some nice adult fish. I already have the set up for that, from the experiments we did, figuring out how to build this system, and what works best.
> 32% protein feed, is around 450 baht to 480 baht per bag. If there are 15000 fish in the system, trying out different feeds of varying protein levels in order to compare grow out performance, would seem like a logical thing to do. Again fact sheets relating to this, would be nice to have. Thanks for your help. There is a poster on the TV forum, who has quite a catfish operation using ponds. Worth a read or two.
> 
> 
> on the high protien feed in a good system, with good fingerlings, you could achieve a fcr of around 1:1
> ...


Thais are producing hundreds millions tonnes of catfishes and other fishes combined each year, they're doing great, how much have you produce? I bettered the skill which an average Thai possesses and i produced between 225-243 tonnes per year. 

The cold season result published, temperature and yield, feed type are all correct, no "wonder medicine" or magic potion, just supplementary remedies like Anti-Bac, Vitamin C and EM. Doubting the benefit of EM application show your lack of knowledge and skill level, and salt is always the rule of thumb. Not discribing the type of percentage level of formalin is also your short sightedness, in aquaculture the level use, type 40% formalin. When catfish becomes deep yellow in colour, it is because of jaundice disease (โรคดีซ่าน Rokh Disan). There~ my contribution for my first post.

Trials have proven (by me) that "slow performers" when rear for another 40 days, size #8-#10 have achieved break size of #4-#6 (250gm-170gm), and i always have villagers eagerly reserve booking the "slow performers" because they knew they're buying at a steal, they only have to rear for a month plus with good grade pellets in their nursary pond.

The home-made aerator units are for my neighbour, building a set at his request, upon satisfaction, the whole set up was sold for an agreed price of ฿5'000 plus 2 bottles of Lao Khao.  :Smile: 


Your post dated 2010, now the year is 2013 and I'm earning a profit of between ฿1.3-฿1.6 mil annually, so believe what you want to believe. With this type of income, it's not delusional. It only proved the amateur in you and the pro in me.

I am RedBullHorn (RBH) from the dreaded other forum, same username same avatar same signature same (nice) attitude and not banned. For my profile, Google " redbullhorn forum " 

I contribute knowledge and tips, not contacts.  :Smile: 

Cheers.

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## draco888

So you don't know what your operating costs are. You do not know what your income will be. Why did you build it in the first place? Just for a hobby? Otherwise why do something if you don't know whether it will result in profits or losses?




> Originally Posted by Hamster
> 
> 
> Looks pretty sharpish.  Would you mind sharing what your setup costs were, what your operating costs are, and what your projected monthly income is?
> 
> Some family members have a bright idea to start a frog farm.  Just curious is all.  I'm years (decades?) off from moving out of BKK, but....
> 
> 
>  A frog farm does not require this type of set-up, would be much cheaper. We only started it up a few times, so I really don't know about the operating cost, still waiting on the electrician to make sure all is hooked up correctly , and back up generators. The electrical work looks good, but I want to make sure. Projected monthly income is an unknown factor. Will be selling juvenile fish mostly, what we don't sell, will get put into our 2 ponds to grow out, after reaching 200 grams. I know what it cost us to built, but it would not be an accurate figure. We made mistakes doing this, it wasn't easy. Luckily, we constructed 2 experimental fish farms, which taught us a lot. There's a thread on frog farms on that dreaded other forum.

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## RedBullHorn

> Originally Posted by mellow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Nawty
> ...


Oh my Buddha~ Look at the misinformation been writen for members readership.

There are 2 species that is farm en-mass.
1 is the more popular Hybrid Pla duk Big Oui (Cross breed of _female_ C.Macrocephlus + _male_ C.Gariepinus), the other is Pla duk Lart Sia (C.Gariepinus).
Both are intensively farmed in earthen ponds.

2 other species being the Pla duk Dan (C.Batrachus) and the Pla duk Oui (C.Macrocephlus) they are not farm en-mass but baited out from streams and rivers, rarely seen now a days because of the high numbers of escape hybrid Big Oui.

*Market*

The market for Big Oui is mostly upper northern region starting from Chiang Mai, market share is narrower than Lart Sia.
Lart Sia market share is nation wide.

*One-Man-Operation (OMO) no hired help*

A Pro farming 10'000 Big Oui using grade A feed, break down:
(prices are based on upper northern region only)

Feed per sack ฿565 x 100sacks = ฿56'500
Fingerlings 3''-4'' @ ฿0.50 a piece x 10'000 = ฿5'000
(bulk price only minimium 100'000 fingerlings)

total = ฿61'500

FCR 1.17:1 (meaning 17kg weight gain out of a 20kg sack, grade A)

฿565 x 1.17/20 = ฿33.05
฿5'000/100/20 = ฿2.5
sub total cost per kg. = ฿35.55

Miscellaneous variable cost = ฿1.45

total cost per kg. = ฿37

Big Oui "currently" farmgate price = ฿45-46/kg (upper northern region)

Nett Profit = ฿8-9/kg (an average of 6 fishes/kg = ฿1.50/fish)

฿1.50 x 10'000 = ฿15'000 (฿1.50 x 100'000 = ฿150'000 x 3 cycle =฿450'000/year)

Or if you choose to to the sum by weight:

100 sacks x 17 = 1'700kg x ฿9/kg = ฿15'300.

This is the figures of a Pro Clarias catfish farmer, technique, eye for detail, elements and overall knowledge are involved.

Amateurs following proper guidance can still net ฿1/fish, the rest behind the pack will do ฿0.50-0.80

Pla duk Lart Sia have a lower price different of ฿4-6 compare to Big Oui. But require only the inferior grade B feed which is cheaper and because of its fast turn over, need only 60 days to rear, 4 cycle per year in achievable. Cold season is 90 days.

We (Big Oui Associations nationwide) are doing 3 cycle (1 each season) per year. Farming calender start in March (availability of fingerlings) and end in Febuary. Cold season farming takes between 120-135 days.

Farm according to your area market supply and demand, if your area market is Lart Sia, don't go and farm Big Oui...  :Smile: 

I can't be bother with doing hatchary in my case, I'm not a patient person, if i can make money faster with high turn-overs, then i shall take the greater pleasure of laughing all the way to the bank every 3-4 months. 
 :smiley laughing:

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## jizzybloke

Why not start a thread yourself?

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## RedBullHorn

Greetings Mod, love your Donor page and the humour.

I'm still warming up to TD forum, I'll when the time comes. I look forward to contribute good information, hopefully pass on some knowledge about my farming experiance on subjects like Rhone Island Red layers, Piggery that I've done on the side. Clarias catfish farming is my core business and thus got me this far.

Cheers.

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## IsaanAussie

Good to see a friendly face over here RBH.

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## RedBullHorn

Good to see you too mate, gosh ! so many...I saw Ozzy, Grimleybob, JamesCollister.... I should have venture out sooner...to the dark side~ :Haha:

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## mellow

Hi RBH, good to hear your doing well.

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## RedBullHorn

hello mellow, how're your doing ? Is your farm still in operation ?

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## Wizard of Oz

Doing business in Thailand, always has a risk, never try, never win. I know nothing about growing fish, the FIL has "directed" a few in the pond we dug. They grow great, no costs but a little fish food and should keep my dinner with fish.

All start up businesses encounter problems, some go down, some survive. I admire Mellow for giving it a try, I've been here now 1.5 year to live, can't find anything to really make money (yet).

The good/bad thing with Thailand is, everything is cheap, or 80-90% of the population, are looking for cheap. I so many times wonder how on earth, people can make a living out of it, but again, I admire the people for trying and love them to get to their goals.

Luckily the paperwork of starting a business is quite easy, or just buy your way in.

Again Mellow, live your dream, go for it, live is too short. I sincerely hope you will be very successful one day, for sure you earn it after all the hard work!

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## mellow

> hello mellow, how're your doing ? Is your farm still in operation ?


Yes, my wife's farm is still working. We are doing OK, but could use more clients.
There is a lot of competition, but we have better quality fish. but you know Thais, if they can save 5 Baht, the will buy the lower quality fish. also they have to truck in the fish, which is quite an added expanse. we are currently wholeselling at 51 Bath/K. What are you selling for these days?

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## Necron99

^ I always saw this as a problem for a small operation here.
You can produce a premium product that no one wants to pay for, but not enough to break into a large organic or premium market with the added transport costs.

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## RedBullHorn

> Originally Posted by RedBullHorn
> 
> 
> hello mellow, how're your doing ? Is your farm still in operation ?
> 
> 
> Yes, my wife's farm is still working. We are doing OK, but could use more clients.
> There is a lot of competition, but we have better quality fish. but you know Thais, if they can save 5 Baht, the will buy the lower quality fish. also they have to truck in the fish, which is quite an added expanse. we are currently wholeselling at 51 Bath/K. What are you selling for these days?


Chiang Rai, "current" prices for:

Nile Tilapia = 
฿58/kg (farmgate/wholesales), ฿70/kg (talat/wet market)

Big Oui hybrid catfish = 
฿45/kg (farmgate/wholesales), 
฿60/kg (talat/wet market), 

฿50/kg for size #6-#8, ฿55/kg for size #2-#5 (Me ! Selling to my village community during any of my harvest days, they will scoot into my ponds and they buy a combined weight of around 100kg everyday, during the harvesting period.)

Lart Sia catfish =
฿38-39/kg (farmgate/wholesales),
฿55-60/kg (talat/wet market).

I only farm Big Oui, my wholesalers don't charge me transport fee, but i have other cost... Liquor & soda + ice. In a 10 days harvest, it would cost me up to 2 cartons of Sangsom rum, 4 cartons of Singha soda water and up to near ฿300 of ice cubes. On top of that, another ฿500-700 of Redbull ! The meals were cheaper about ฿3000 for a 10 day period.

I take comfort knowing that the wife is helping by drinking most of the bottles...

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