#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  Passive income recommendations to allow one to retire in Thailand?

## slimboyfat

As per the title. i'm 45 now but intend to retire at 60ish. It would have been earlier but somehow I managed to get married again in my early 40s and had a child (not necessarily in that order).
It's a difficult one as unlike most western expats I don't have a special forces pension to rely on. Or even a normal old age pension what they give to civilians in the UK on account of never paying National Insurance contributions.

Some options that I have thought of:

One or two rental properties in your home country (mine is the United Kingdom) ? 
Dividend paying shares?
Rental property in Thailand?
Buy some farm equipment and rent it out to the locals (probably not a good idea as the big man of the moo ban does that)
Buying a lot of lottery tickets and visiting the temple frequently to facilitate more wins?

How do you survive?

And no 'send your wife to Pattaya' suggestions please as she is over 40 yrs old now and quite heavy set. 

Cheers

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## Jack meoff

Crowdfunding is the way to go  :Smile:

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## Loy Toy

^  :smiley laughing:  The old Teakdoor ploy but I believe Slim is not a Teffler!

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## fishlocker

I'm not convinced buying property now is a great plan as prices are up. However if you find a bargain in the right place it may be worthwhile. I don't know what skills you have but sweat equity in a fixer upper is doable if you have the time.

As for dividends you'll need a lot of shares to pull a comfortable living off them. A little late to jump into Tesla or face book but find the next one and in ten years you may have something. 

As for rentals in a foreign country I'd really have to look into that one. The vibe I get is don't do it. 

I saw a video on utube by a guy named Harold Balder that hit on reasons not to buy property in Thailand. 

Good luck though, you have a few years to plan for the move if you end up taking that route.

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## HuangLao

> Crowdfunding is the way to go



Can't miss with it.
With so many charlatans, and subsequent suckers, out there - quick fire and sure income.

 :bananaman:

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## Neo

If you find the answer SBF please let me know (via pm of course so these other coonts don't get in there first and cut me legs off)  :Smile: 

What line of work are you in? 

Can you take your expertise to open a small business, training a couple of clued up and keen natives to do the day to day for next to nothing and earn a steady if meagre income? 

That's what I will try to do eventually, too late too reinvent the wheel. Trying to build a bit of nest egg here in the ME but I dont have a corporate or armed forces pension to fall back on and after the private pensions meltdown of the 2000's who would want to buy into one. Having a steady income into retirement is essential. 

Don't write off the UK state pension either, I didn't pay stamps for years as a contractor. But with a top up of a couple of thousand I can still get 75% of the full pension, alright I won't get that until I'm 67 but if I'm still kicking it'll buy me fags and beers  :Smile:

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## fishlocker

Another utuber is Retire cheep Asia. He breaks down health insurance carriers in Thailand.  May be worth a look to anyone who is serious about jumping ship. I'm still holding on to the rail. I hope I don't end up going down with the ship.

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## fishlocker

If you have some kind of internet business you can be a digital nomad. Lots of yuppies in Chiang Mai. Rent is cheep.
Just be leary of JonnyFd types and the dropship marketing phenomenon.

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## Chittychangchang

Invest in a bar in Thailand ::spin:: 

Property rental income is the way to go if you've no pension or savings.
I know quite a few self employed people in the UK who have invested in a second property instead of dubious pensions.

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## Chittychangchang

Just been trying to find a thread on this subject I did a few years ago, fooked if I can find it.

How to make money in Thailand legally.

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## fishlocker

I think it was in betting terms, show with two, leave with one.

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## fishlocker

Or none?
Seriously.

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## Neo

So buy a second property in the Uk to rent out.? 

Most people in the UK can't even afford a first property and for expats with no ties to the country the amount of money involved would be a significant nest egg in itself. 

If I had £150K+ going spare by the time I reach that stage I wouldn't sink it into property to rent in a far off land, rather I'd want to invest it in something where I choose to put my feet up and have a close eye on it. 

Sure there may be more security in bricks and mortar in a reliable economy back home, but I would hope to make more of that money and something tangible to occupy me in my retirement.

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## Chittychangchang

A £150k investment in the UK in a property were you have a reliable letting agent will return £6k a year, similar to a state pension. 
You also have the safe investment of a property that will gradually increase in value.

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## Neo

If I had 150K and invested in a small business and couldn't clear more than £6000 pa profit I would have have really made a serious misjudgement about my own abilities.  

You tie up 150K in house you're never going to live in to get 6K return pa for 20 years if you're lucky before you croak it of boredom. 

Might as well put it in a bank, draw 6K a year out and spunk the other 30k George Best style...  :Friday:  oh of course if you buy the house you still have a house after 20 years.. but you're dead  :Smile:

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## fishlocker

If you have property and you're an absentee landlord you will be paying someone to manage said property not to mention maintenance. Just something to concider. You're on the hook if they pay rent or not. 

Just my two bits worth on that. Like they say, go big or go home. In that I'm saying if you have multiple units and not scattered sights it may be worthwhile to have a handyman /manager.

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## fishlocker

As for stocks giving you a dividend income it's not a bad bet if you hold in some stable companies but like I mentioned you'll have to have a million invested to pull 40k in divs on average.

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## Chittychangchang

> If I had 150K and invested in a small business and couldn't clear more than £6000 pa profit I would have have really made a serious misjudgement about my own abilities.  
> 
> You tie up 150K in house you're never going to live in to get 6K return pa for 20 years if you're lucky before you croak it of boredom. 
> 
> Might as well put it in a bank, draw 6K a year out and spunk the other 30k George Best style...  oh of course if you buy the house you still have a house after 20 years.. but you're dead


When you put it like that I'm inclined to agree. :Smile:

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## David48atTD

It's a tricky question and it it depends on your expectations for income and growth and what investments you currently own.

Also consider this advice of not concentrating your wealth in a single asset, asset class.

One example of heart break.  

WWII immigrants to Australia, no skills, no language ... what job to do?

Work as a Taxi/Cab driver.  Earn coin, buy a Taxi and the license.
That License costs maybe $10,000 (back then).
Taxi Licenses increase in value, well over that of the inflation rate.
10 years ago, last time I looked, a Taxi License was circa $300,000

That WWII immigrant saw the value of Taxi Licenses grow and grow year on year.
He thinks people will always need a Taxi so he buys another license and another and two more.
He's rich, a millionaire in fact.  No bad for a man who was penniless when he arrived on Australian shores.

The income from the licenses will, over time payback the $600,000 he's borrowed against their house and 
his misses will fart through silk undies for the rest of her long life.


However ...

Along came Uber  :Sad:   Within a few years the established Taxi industry is disrupted, probably for-ever.
His Licenses are near worthless, his retirement dream shattered.
Worse then that, his marriage broke up.  He is 65, retired and with a debt of $600,000 to pay.

Called a Black Swan event because almost no-one saw it coming.


Moral of the story ... don't put all your eggs in one basket.

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## hick

Flip .dotcoms

brainstorm up and coming global events/opportunities that may gather strength & buy all attributing .coms to hold, then auction later.  Be creative.

IE; I recently sold several N Korean urls I had acquired years ago to a S Korean investment house for surprisingly lucrative amounts.  

Ok, not entirely passive as I had to be a little proactive and,...errr  click some buttons.   :Razz:

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## hick

Imho, the key to passive (or near passive) income streams is to start w/ many.  

5-10 to just get started as your brilliant ideas prolly won't amount to much; whereas your "so-so ideas could surprise you...

Best of luck Slim

PS:  open a market account for long term safety net.
Don't know your budget, but 100k (usd) is generally advised.

Individual co. stocks historically come out ahead of everything else.

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## fishlocker

The moral is don't lay eggs. 

Just kidding but it's true. The easter bunny is a fallacy. 
If I were to give any credible advice it would be to invest early and often.  I figured this out at age twelve.  You see my older brother smoked, more than he had, so I'd sell him some of mine. Like selling umbrellas on a sunny day. 
You find that funny but then my brother gets off the plane into the sunsoaked sky and by god he'd pay anything for a umbrella. Be prepared,  that's your best hedge.

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## Pragmatic

> Buy some farm equipment and rent it out to the locals


    Unless you can do all your own repairs, maintenance etc I give that a wide birth.



> she is over 40 yrs old now and quite heavy set.


 The arabs like them that way.   :Smile: 

I'd go for setting up an introduction service for Thai women to meet farang. A German, near where I live, does it. He charges, the woman, 25,000 Baht with no outlay. He trawls the free dating websites and matches them up to Thai women looking for a farang. The couple only get to see each other through his Skype. If they hit it off he arranges for the farang to come over. He then makes money from the farang by arranging airport pick up and local accommodation.
The 25,000 is paid before the meet and is not refundable if it doesn't work out.
I'd do it if I needed the money but I don't.
Another way is to pally up with a pharmacist who can supply you meds. Plenty of people out there, on the web, wanting meds that are obtainable here but not in their own country.
Last option is pole-dancing in a gay bar in Patters.  :Smile:

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## HuangLao

Online writing where the opportunities are endless.

Not really working :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): , so might be considered passive.

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## Lostandfound

Be wary of traditional uk “rental investments”. 

Id go for 3 bed bungalows within 45 minutes of major population centres with some lifestyle element. Whitstable if you can afford it!

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## Chittychangchang

^^^get onit :bananaman:

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## Loy Toy

Stay at home, drink cheap booze and get your missus out working mate.  :Smile:

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## cyrille

> Online writing


Good god, surely it can't be true.  :Very Happy: 

What language?

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## fishlocker

> Online writing where the opportunities are endless.
> 
> Not really working, so might be considered passive.


The book will be out soon.

Who am I kidding, the paper version just flushed down the crapper with the rest of yesterdays novel.


Passive?

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## fishlocker

> Stay at home, drink cheap booze and get your missus out working mate.


Yes, but why the cheep Booze?

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## fishlocker

That chart looks like yet another "dickster up my asre". You mean "MEAN" there are less Pataya girls to "go round".

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## fishlocker

Fish be sliding in second. Damn right, wearing a raincoat.

Just joking boys. I wanted to start a new thread. All things in Oregon. 

Lost the new thread tab. Please  advise Huston.

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## Dragonfly

> As per the title. i'm 45 now but intend to retire at 60ish. It would have been earlier but somehow I managed to get married again in my early 40s and had a child (not necessarily in that order).
> It's a difficult one as unlike most western expats I don't have a special forces pension to rely on. Or even a normal old age pension what they give to civilians in the UK on account of never paying National Insurance contributions.
> 
> Some options that I have thought of:
> 
> One or two rental properties in your home country (mine is the United Kingdom) ? 
> Dividend paying shares?
> Rental property in Thailand?
> Buy some farm equipment and rent it out to the locals (probably not a good idea as the big man of the moo ban does that)
> ...


Buy a pie factory of course, and I just happen to know someone who run one  :Smile: 

seriously, what happened to your Singapore wife and family ? you left that place completely ?

anyway, don't put money in Thailand, you will be outsmart by locals or greedy farang long timers, ask LoyToy  :Smile:

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## Dragonfly

> How do you survive?
> 
> Cheers


first question to ask is how much capital you have, and how much you want it to be when you retire

then what is your risk appetite and how much loss you can take for one of your investment projects

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## Chittychangchang

> Stay at home, drink cheap booze and get your missus out working mate.


Sounds like the perfect plan.

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## fishlocker

#1Go to some place where you don't know the rules.
#2 Throw your life savings into her, Fred Wiggy call  home, public joke
#3 Expect the unexpected.

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## Begbie

I don’t see anyone being very helpful.  You could talk to a financial advisor, though you’d have to be careful as their main aim is to get fees for selling products.

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## Pragmatic

> I don’t see anyone being very helpful.


 What was/is wrong with my advice? It works for the guy who I know who is doing it. In fact he's not the only one

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## Begbie

> What was/is wrong with my advice? It works for the guy who I know who is doing it. In fact he's not the only one


Sorry Prag, your post was lost in all the noise. Reading it now I don’t see how someone could lose money being an internet match maker. Making money probably takes a bit of brass neck which most don’t have.

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## Pragmatic

> Making money probably takes a bit of brass neck which most don’t have.


 I haven't got the neck to do it and I don't need the money. But if shove comes to push who knows?

The selling of medication on the net seems a better option, providing one obtain a source. It may be illegal but..............

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## fishlocker

Ok, feeling bad for the op, I went through it again. All I got out of it is save early, save often. I trust you didn't miss the boat.








the fish

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## armstrong

The old fake footy shirts routine.

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## fishlocker

So, lets just pretend then. If I spelled it out for you would you buy the book?

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## David48atTD

Not a helpfull start?




> I dont see anyone being very helpful.  You could talk to a financial advisor, though youd have to be careful as their main aim is to get fees for selling products.





> It's a tricky question and it it depends on your expectations for income and growth and what investments you currently own.
> 
> Also consider this advice of not concentrating your wealth in a single asset, asset class.
> 
> One example of heart break.  
> 
> WWII immigrants to Australia, no skills, no language ... what job to do?
> 
> Work as a Taxi/Cab driver.  Earn coin, buy a Taxi and the license.
> ...

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## fishlocker

If you have to get an adviser make sure he/she is a fee only adviser. Hell, I'll be more than happy to make money off your money. Remember that.
As for the rest, when I'm sitting by the river writing my book ......well never mind.








the fishes

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## cyrille

> Moral of the story ...


Judging by the suggestions so far it seems to be 'make your pile before you retire in Thailand...and you're gonna have to work for it'.  :Very Happy:

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## sabang

My advice, start building up a portfolio of dividend paying shares. Ignore market swings- you've got a ten plus year outlook.
Most financial advisors I don't trust, and frankly the best ones you can't afford.
Don't be suckered into remarkably high interest rate 'opportunities', load of money been lost that way.

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## hick

^  this

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## slimboyfat

> Buy a pie factory of course, and I just happen to know someone who run one 
> 
> seriously, what happened to your Singapore wife and family ? you left that place completely ?
> 
> anyway, don't put money in Thailand, you will be outsmart by locals or greedy farang long timers, ask LoyToy


I still live and work in Singapore. I pay my ex wife $3000 a month as part of the divorce settlement, rent an apartment and subsequently save next to nothing each month and will probably have to disappear at some stage. However i do have some money in the bank after the divorce and just considering what to do with it. I am also in the process of buying a terraced house in the UK (with the assistance of an expat buy to let mortgage) that I will rent out. If that works out I may buy another - but that might be going down the too many eggs in one basket route, especially with the uncertainties of Brexit.

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## slimboyfat

Thanks for all the replies so far! Very interesting.

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## Airportwo

> My advice, start building up a portfolio of dividend paying shares. Ignore market swings- you've got a ten plus year outlook.
> Most financial advisors I don't trust, and frankly the best ones you can't afford.
> Don't be suckered into remarkably high interest rate 'opportunities', load of money been lost that way.


I retired on a passive income four years ago! "my financial advisors" have made more money than I have over that time, in fact over the past twenty years! - Leeches!

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## Pragmatic

> I pay my ex wife $3000 a month


 :Yikes:

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## Dragonfly

3000 SGD a month, that will include money for the kids I assume, not too bad

buy the house in the UK, good plan

try to buy another in France or Spain  :Smile: 

apartments could do, above all in Spain near the beach, to rent out on AirBNB for the summer

Portugal is always a cheap place for housing, 300K EUR will buy you a nice place

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## Dragonfly

> My advice, start building up a portfolio of dividend paying shares. Ignore market swings- you've got a ten plus year outlook.
> Most financial advisors I don't trust, and frankly the best ones you can't afford.
> Don't be suckered into remarkably high interest rate 'opportunities', load of money been lost that way.


financial advisors here in Thailand are mostly scammers, everyone of them I met was trying to sell some "expensive" savings plan where you basically finance all their fees for the next 20 years. Incidentally, most were British, which tells you something about the moral compass of those English  :Smile: 

Dividend paying shares will not be enough to pay for your retirement, only active trading with skills could do, but that's also expensive to run in time and money. Most of my US clients when I was stationed in Bangkok made between 700% and 1500% on their money over 10 years, but it took a lot of time and resources to run, so min portfolio size had to be 1m USD min eventually.

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## baldrick

Bitcoin   :Smile:  

Though I have decred because when you stake it to vote and assist in securing the network you receive a portion of the block rewards. Averages out to about 20% a year. 

At the moment you need about 5k of DCR to be able to purchase one ticket to enable you to participate in the voting

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## ludwig

Get ordained.
Less is more.

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## happynz

> I...will probably have to disappear at some stage.


Second and third passports -- Paraguay citizenship is relatively inexpensive and wouldn't take that long. You wouldn't have to live there. You just need the documents. 

Probably going to need a name change and some plastic surgery.

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## slimboyfat

> Second and third passports -- Paraguay citizenship is relatively inexpensive and wouldn't take that long. You wouldn't have to live there. You just need the documents. 
> 
> Probably going to need a name change and some plastic surgery.


OK. I was just planning on leaving Singapore without giving my ex-wife a forwarding address.

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## cyrille

Anyone have any thoughts on student accommodation in the UK?

Something like this?

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## David48atTD

I'll prepare with this ...  ::spin::  but most of the advice, while well intended is possibly ill advised.

For those suggesting that SBF buy _another_ house for income is folly.

You already own a house in the UK, you own a house in Thailand, why, on Earth is it a good idea to buy another house,
in a foreign country, Spain etc.  I presume you don't speak a language other then English and a smattering of Thai.
So imagine the difficulty of finding a suitable property, months spent in a foreign country and then the maintenance etc.

PLUS ... it's a relatively poor time to buy property.  Interest rates have been at all time lows in many countries thus, 
the affordability of Real Estate and thus, prices have never been so high.
If you are funding the purchase through borrowings, the interest rates are rising.
So, you've bought a house, near the top of the market, in a foreign country.

Three houses ... feels like eggs in a basket.

---

Think also about currency fluctuations.  Where will most of your bills come from?
I'd be looking to get some of my income in that currency so the exchange rate variability is removed from the equation.

---

One suggestion would be a high dividend paying Thai Share/Stock.


https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/BTSGIF:TB




> About BTS Rail Mass Transit Growth Infrastructure FundBTS  Rail Mass Transit Growth Infrastructure Fund is a closed-end fund  incorporated in Thailand. 
> The Fund's objective is to achieve income. 
> The  Fund invests in the Core BTS Sky Train System from BTSC, which includes  the Core Sukhumvit Line & the Core Silom Line.


It's an infrastructure stock paying a healthy 6.5% dividend.

BHT 400,000 invested there would pay BHT 23,400 annual dividend, plus some modest capital gain.
BHT 400,000 X 6.5% - 10 tax


Thai Tap Water - https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/TTW:TB - another infrastructure Stock, paying 4.84%

Just for starters.

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## Dragonfly

5% dividend is not going to take you far, and those shares tend to depreciate over time as assets are sold to pay for those "high dividends" to investors

it's a tough call, I still think for amateur investors, property is their best bet, but always buy someting you know, and if Spain is too far or too foreign for you, dont go there

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## runker

I have two rentals, one nets $400 per month the other maybe 150.   I have property managers for each property since they are in different states.  It is not a lot of money and when you think everything is going fine you get a message saying the a/c needs replacing at $2500 or the sewer pipe leading to the main needs replacing (soon). 

 I did meet a fellow in Thailand who owned several rentals free and clear in the US and he decided to sale them and be the bank to the buyer.  So, he is making 7% on the loan and if the buyer defaults he forecloses on the house and sales it again.  The good thing about being the bank is you're no longer paying taxes on the property and no longer paying insurance, your buyer is now responsible for that.  One drawback is when you buyer decides to refinance with a new bank.

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## Maanaam

There's an investment that offers good returns and is unlikely to ever go under and that is investing in a cask of whiskey. There are also "brokers" who will allow investment in fractions of a cask.
Japanese whiskey is the future, but Scotch and Irish have the tradition and are steady.

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## naptownmike

Having a house in your home country in a nice area and renting it seems like a safe bet. That along with a sizable savings and a few self funded retirement accounts. One advantage of renting a house in your home country is you could go back there should something unforeseen happen. Plus the monthly income for ages as apposed to a lump sum this part would require the house to be paid off or close to it. That is my plan I'm 46 so a lot can happen. Also trying not to piss away huge sums on cars.

Good luck

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## David48atTD

> ...Also trying not to piss away huge sums on cars.


Yep ... depreciating asset.

No money in cars*

Plus, we only run one car ATM, two is what we'd like, one is what we need.



* Your daily drive

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## Switch

> I'll prepare with this ...  but most of the advice, while well intended is possibly ill advised.
> 
> For those suggesting that SBF buy _another_ house for income is folly.
> 
> You already own a house in the UK, you own a house in Thailand, why, on Earth is it a good idea to buy another house,
> in a foreign country, Spain etc.  I presume you don't speak a language other then English and a smattering of Thai.
> So imagine the difficulty of finding a suitable property, months spent in a foreign country and then the maintenance etc.
> 
> PLUS ... it's a relatively poor time to buy property.  Interest rates have been at all time lows in many countries thus, 
> ...


At least your likely income is realistic, unlike braggart Butterfly with his grandiose percentages. He really is a top scammer.

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## Dragonfly

oh no here we go again, are you sure you are not related to LoyToy, you miserable old man  :Smile:

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## Switch

You’ll be needing a boiler suit for your next scam. Trolling biatch.   :Smile:

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## fishlocker

Why buy property?

Taxes, what taxes?
Yes, you pay it but it is depreciable.
Utilities,yes its all by by.

Check with your accountant but as far as I know property taxes utilities Insurance Etc are all a write off.

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## Dragonfly

> You’ll be needing a boiler suit for your next scam. Trolling biatch.


boiler room boys are all British, you silly Brexit pensioner

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## fishlocker

Ok,
So the best advise is:
Work you're ass off.
Get a pension.
Live for a few breaths and die.

Is there another way out?

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## fishlocker

Damn I spilt that shit all wong. I dont mean you silly. at least not in that particulay way. 


Shut.....Im jumping with Jack'

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## fishlocker

I bee dupit be da dingo

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## fishlocker

If that can't make the TD quotes, what will?

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## HuangLao

> Ok,
> So the best advise is:
> Work you're ass off.
> Get a pension.
> Live for a few breaths and die.
> 
> Is there another way out?



Find a sweet sugar mama....??

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## fishlocker

If you jump up, just fore an instant.,well shit it's all behind you now .

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## OhOh

> One advantage of renting a house in your home country is you could go back there should something unforeseen happen.


Try getting a reluctant tenant to move out, legally.




> Plus, we only run one car ATM, two is what we'd like, one is what we need.


And allegedly, by the new car manufacturers, used only 4% of its available time. That figure is for the main family vehicle. What a "collectors" car is used for is probably a 1,000 times less.




> Taxes, what taxes?
> Yes, you pay it but it is depreciable.
> Utilities,yes its all by by.
> 
> Check with your accountant but as far as I know property taxes utilities Insurance Etc are all a write off.


On an annual basis or over a government determined time scale? Capital gains tax, personal tax, loss of other potential investment schemes. One can try and hide due taxes but whilst ever one has assets in a country they can be seized if determined by a court.




> Ok,
> So the best advise is:
> Work you're ass off.
> Get a pension.
> Live for a few breaths and die.
> 
> Is there another way out?


Invest your disposable income wisely, over time and reject demands for immediate personal indulgent. How often should one purchase, from already taxed income, a personal vehicle replacement? Because of peer pressure, because one has received a windfall or because a car salesman shows the the financial benefit of a new car purchase? 

Start your, own plan/children's security plan, off with a small sum, add to it religiously before any other lifestyle choices. At a certain age pass the responsibility to the child, to add further or cash it in. As we know adulthood arrives at different times for many, some are still awaiting that era of "taking responsibility". You may not match world renowned investment gurus alleged gains but you also reduce the risk of the investment of going "splutter, splutter, bang" overnight. 

There are three types of living costs of which you decide as an individual;

1. Necessary - shelter, food, clothing. Zero risk, impossible to live without.

2. Optional - future investments to produce income at a time of your choosing, not time limited. These can be accessed, in part of fully, at times of your own decision. Medium risk.

3. Play money - Personal indulgences, or time fixed investment - only accessible at agreed intervals determined upon initial agreement. Higher risk - will that "drink for the road" really bring pleasure to you and others, will that tasty tart really indulge your fantasies tonight and not leave an embarrassing trail on your medical, financial or social standing?

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## Begbie

The pension plan works if you spend your life slaving for the same employer, don’t get laid off and they don’t go bust. Personal saving is hit and miss and timing.

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## OhOh

A "pension" or planned financial savings/investments can be constructed to include many things. If you narrow the definition to government mandated, company contracted, or a selected commercial, fixed timed determined, "pension" you can be correct. It depends on the contract. Government promises can be varied in time - age of availability, amount determination method, and eligibility - residency requirements etc.

Others can be constructed to your own wishes and responsibilities. Some here have suggested buying rental accommodation.  Whisky futures or physically stored barrels, precious objects, digital tokens, electronic profit generating machines, etc. All have risks for you to consider and weigh against possible returns. Not salesman's "J curve graphs" based on historical and potentially biased or manipulated data. 

Do your own due diligence and take personal responsibility.

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## Jack meoff

Good post mr Oh

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## David48atTD

> If that can't make the TD quotes, what will?


Mate, you can self post if you like.  I'm was just the OP for that thread  :Smile: 

Senses of humour differ ... don't let it be defined by me alone.

Go for it.

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## Dead Metal

I invested, lost it. As they say it can go up or it can go down. Shit happens , got over it now, but it ruined my plans.
Surprisingly they did send me a cheque explaining that they felt I had been badly advised and what to do if I still felt aggrieved. 
It was a percentage of the original amount, I accepted and banked the cheque.

----------


## james1995

there are *ways* if you don't have any morals. #easiest idea...u take out huge amount of in unsecured loans in your home country and buy several condo units to rent out. your choice if you want to repay the loans(wink wink).  credit cards are drained via atm withdrawals and gold purchases.  you need to have real good credit score to do this.  5-10 million baht invested should give you a nice income stream.  enough to retire on.

----------


## Luigi

Aka Doing a Lulu.

----------


## fishlocker

I'm thinking of selling my old property appraisal books.
The math still is relevant, not that I'm counting on that.

I'm thinking more of a pizza shuttle. 

Well, an electrified pizza shuttle to be precise. 

Hey, just joking. 

But now is when the pythons and cobras are looking for high ground. 

Like buying a hurricane damage boat.

But then again you really can't buy land.
Or time.

Fish

----------


## Jack meoff

^ just stick to double barreled shots into lame stags at 10 foot away Cooter.

----------


## david44

Seldom see a pimp on a bike

----------


## cyrille

> 5-10 million baht invested should give you a nice income stream. enough to retire on.


Rent from a 5-10 million baht condo alone is enough to retire on?

Either your numbers are from 1995 or you live on fried rice in your wife's place.  :Very Happy:

----------


## TizMe

> Rent from a 5-10 million baht condo alone is enough to retire on?
> 
> Either your numbers are from 1995 or you live on fried rice in your wife's place.


I'd think 8% return would be maximum. 400K-800K per year would be enough for some people..... not me though....

----------


## fiddler

Bought a fixer upper house when i was young and worked on it every night for  3 1/2 years and sold it for 3 times as much. 
Took the profit and bought a better one in a better neighborhood.
Got a roomate. 
I travelled the world while he paid off my mortgage.   (worked seasonal jobs half the year and travelled the other half)
Once it was paid off, I rented it out to a family for bigger bucks and moved to Thailand. 
Then built an apt above my garage.  
Rented that out too. 
Now, my wife and I bought a house here in Thailand and rent that out too. 
Life is good.

----------


## cyrille

> I'd think 8% return would be maximum. 400K-800K per year would be enough for some people..... not me though....


30K+ a month on a place that cost just 5 million seems unlikely in Thailand. 

Not impossible, but unlikely.

And remember, james is maintaining that can be retired on, so you're covering your own accommodation too.

So...let's go with the ten million place instead, and that would take some hunting, bargaining and doing up nicely to get you about 5-6%.

50K a month and you're living...umm...OK.

----------


## headhunter

for them thinking of retirering to thailand ONCE known as a cheap place to live,had better do some homework before taking the plunge.
yes if you can live on RICE,NOODLES,SOM TAM and chicken,pork and their offal you could just about make it.
it is easy to lose the value of ? me being a brit.oops a taff.just think about what you like to eat.
baked beans 2.50 gbpounds.
spam 340grm. 6gbp.a tin.
hp sauce 2.80 gbp.220ml.
angus ausi.beef steak 46gbp.kilo 21gbp.-LB.
fish I am going to try 14.50gbp.kilo.6.60LB.
potatoes 50p.a LB.imported from china.
bacon and good sausages 6gbp.kilo.
bisto gravy,oxo cubes,mustard,around the same 2-3gbp.
instant coffee nescafe about 7gbp.200grms.
so if you have to rent a place,there is more than likely you will have to pay a community charge,water bill,electric is at least double to what it is at home [uk]
unless you plan to live alone,having a local partner comes out at the top.
headhunter HAPPY TO LIVE HERE.

----------


## PAG

^

Have to dispute your comparisons.   For utilities, I have a reasonably large house with lots of electrics, though only use air con in our bedroom at night.   Average monthly electric bill is circa 50 pounds equivalent, which as the average ambient temperature remains constant throughout the year means it's cheap.   Bottled gas consumption cost is fairly minimal, to the point of being unable to put a cost on it.   Water, again we use quite a lot, and average monthly bill is circa 8 pounds.   Big thing of course is that there are no property rates here in Thailand, which in the UK would be a minimum of 100 pounds a month.   We pay around 8 pounds a month for my mobile phone which has excellent 4G coverage, and X amount of free calls etc.

Big cost item in the UK is vehicle fuel, which here is less than half the cost.

You're mentioning food items, though the freshest of fruit and vegetables are available here at a fraction of the cost, as well as proteins such as good quality pork and chicken.

Imported food will naturally be more expensive, though if you live near an international inhabited area with the resultant specialist shops, you can get reasonably priced products.   Some examples:

Large tin of Heinz beans, 75 baht.



Some cheeses, various.



T bone steak, about 6-7 pounds



Pork chop, around 1.50 pounds



Duck breast, about 1.80 pounds



Good piece of cod loin, abut 3 pounds



Australian striploin, again about 3 pounds



Cumberland sausages, around 3 pounds a half kilo



Daddies sauce, 400g, 3 pounds



You get my drift.   You also need to get real time with western prices also.   I haven't been in the UK for the past 3 years, and was shocked by how expensive things were.

----------


## fishlocker



----------


## headhunter

these i got today from tesco uk.
baked beans 2 for 1.30 pounds.
spam 2.00pound.
hp.brown sauce 450grm.2.15 pounds.
so where do you do your shopping PAG.the exchange rate pounds to bht.is about 42.so for an example 2tins of baked beans come to,eq.55bht.spam 84bht.
I don't know what I have done to you,but it seems you DONT LIKE ME.
when you asked on TD.has anyone whose dog had been having nose bleeds,and I replied yes for 3yrs.and I can give you all what he experienced.
you threw it all back in my face,saying you would rather trust a vet rather than an anonymous poster on the net.
taff a true and honest person.

----------


## bowie

Money - deep subject, many layers to this onion. I could write pages but am not inclined to.

Thailand is a cheap place to live. But, how much it will cost you to live in Thailand is entirely based on the lifestyle you maintain. Or in better wording, the "Standard-of-Living" you require. It doesn't matter how much money you have, what matters is how much money you have in comparison to how much money others have, that is what determines the Standard of Living you can afford. Businesses need customers so their prices will reflect what  their customers can afford. The USA and Europe folk have a lot more money than the Thai folk, so, the prices are considerably higher. Broad brush strokes here, itemized comparisons do differ. 

You can live quite cheaply in Thailand if you can live like a Thai, handle money like they do, eat like they do, travel like they do, sleep like they do, spend money like they do... if you can, in fact, do this, well more power to you, I can't.

Bought a house, @ THB 8-9M when all was said and done. I have legal control via a Usufruct for 30 years with 30 years renewal, so I'll die here. Annual cost is on the order of USD $35k, including everything. The only flexible thing not included is "Travel". Spent a couple of years traveling around Thailand, during those years USD $90k was more the norm (partial years with time in the USA and Thailand). Travel is expensive. Our typical USA Standard-of-Living cost us USD $60k. 

So, for comparative purposes, for me and my wife, as homeowners, maintaining the same or similar Standard-of-Living these are our numbers: Northeast USA USD $60k/annum, Nonthaburi Thailand USD $35k/annum. These numbers do not include travel expenses, but include everything else.

----------


## Neverna

> baked beans 2.50 gbpounds.


I bought some yesterday: 31 baht a can (~75p). 




> potatoes 50p.a LB.imported from china.


You think that's expensive?

----------


## headhunter

> Money - deep subject, many layers to this onion. I could write pages but am not inclined to.
> 
> Thailand is a cheap place to live. But, how much it will cost you to live in Thailand is entirely based on the lifestyle you maintain. Or in better wording, the "Standard-of-Living" you require. It doesn't matter how much money you have, what matters is how much money you have in comparison to how much money others have, that is what determines the Standard of Living you can afford. Businesses need customers so their prices will reflect what  their customers can afford. The USA and Europe folk have a lot more money than the Thai folk, so, the prices are considerably higher. Broad brush strokes here, itemized comparisons do differ. 
> 
> You can live quite cheaply in Thailand if you can live like a Thai, handle money like they do, eat like they do, travel like they do, sleep like they do, spend money like they do... if you can, in fact, do this, well more power to you, I can't.
> 
> Bought a house, @ THB 8-9M when all was said and done. I have legal control via a Usufruct for 30 years with 30 years renewal, so I'll die here. Annual cost is on the order of USD $35k, including everything. The only flexible thing not included is "Travel". Spent a couple of years traveling around Thailand, during those years USD $90k was more the norm (partial years with time in the USA and Thailand). Travel is expensive. Our typical USA Standard-of-Living cost us USD $60k. 
> 
> So, for comparative purposes, for me and my wife, as homeowners, maintaining the same or similar Standard-of-Living these are our numbers: Northeast USA USD $60k/annum, Nonthaburi Thailand USD $35k/annum. These numbers do not include travel expenses, but include everything else.


I have to agree with everything you say,i can go back as far as1983 when things were a lot different then,mostly you had a job to get any farang food.our apartment in bkk.wasnt that expensive and we lived well.me & wife moved back to the uk.spent 20yrs.there and moved here full stock and barrel.
house here 6m.bht.no debts.live as best we can,if there is anything we want,its there for the taking.but this last yr.or 2 I found I have lost the value of bht.against the pound.our budget is 500k.bht.a yr.eat well,only a drink now and then,and that's limited.so all in all we live quite well.my only concern is that the wife looks after herself when I go to the temple.

----------


## fishlocker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmPwYhHX_jY

----------


## fishlocker

Honestlly I've never livedin Bangkock though can only imagine it is less of an evil than other parts of the planet in terms of life cost.

----------


## headhunter

> I bought some yesterday: 31 baht a can (~75p). 
> 
> 
> You think that's expensive?


Heinz baked beans 31bht a can. :smiley laughing:  spuds 40bht.a kilo expensive they are when you have to THROW AWAY the ones that are black INSIDE.

----------


## headhunter

DADDIES BROWN SAUCE  300g.3pounds ?
DADDIES BROWN SAUCE  685g 1pound 85pence.TESCO UK.

----------


## Neverna

Why not just piss off back to Wales, Taffy? You can buy all your UK food items there without the extra expense of transporting them thousands of miles.

----------


## fishlocker

Really though If I had a nut in the park I'd squirrel away something that paid dividends.

----------


## PAG

[QUOTE=headhunter;3841871
so where do you do your shopping PAG.the exchange rate pounds to bht.is about 42.so for an example 2tins of baked beans come to,eq.55bht.spam 84bht.
I don't know what I have done to you,but it seems you DONT LIKE ME.
when you asked on TD.has anyone whose dog had been having nose bleeds,and I replied yes for 3yrs.and I can give you all what he experienced.
you threw it all back in my face,saying you would rather trust a vet rather than an anonymous poster on the net.
taff a true and honest person.[/QUOTE]

Re our shopping, like many with access to such, for western food, Villa Market and occasionally from specialist shops such as Food For Foreigners, Tops (Waitrose products) and Makro for lamb and their selection of spices.  M'Sahib uses Tesco for sundries like house cleaning products, local markets for fresh vegetables and fruits plus fish/seafood.

Re my opinion of you, I don't have one, and tend to use this forum for humour and information rather than get into shitfests with other posters.   I think I led my reply to your response to the problem my dog had with his nose with "with respect", nothing about throwing anything in your face, only stated my own view that I would accept the advice of a vet rather than a poster.   Again from recollection, and no doubt your opinion was sullied by a bad experience, you essentially wrote all vets (at least Thai ones) off as useless.   That's not our experience.

I've been full time here for 11 years now, so am equally as aware of the exchange rate decline, however I still enjoy a lifestyle here that would be simply unobtainable in the UK for my budget.

----------


## Dead Metal

SlimBoyFat  you say you are only 45 . You could go back to England, work/rent, get yourself on the Gov; pension scale and save at the same time,  you have 20+ years to go.

That way you could return to Thailand with money in your pocket and a state pension !

----------


## armstrong

What's the point of working your life away in the UK for 10years in Thailand? And that's at a point where you're too old to do anything.

----------


## cyrille

Especially when this winter is all set to be one of the most depressing on record.

----------


## bowie

> As per the title. i'm 45 now but intend to retire at 60ish. 
> 
> Some options that I have thought of:
> One or two rental properties in your home country (mine is the United Kingdom) ? 
> Dividend paying shares?
> Rental property in Thailand?
> Buy some farm equipment and rent it out to the locals (probably not a good idea as the big man of the moo ban does that)
> Buying a lot of lottery tickets and visiting the temple frequently to facilitate more wins?
> 
> *How do you survive?*


For myself and my wife - a pretty simple plan that worked. First, working in Thailand in the '90's the company I worked for went bust as a result of the asian financial crisis, married my Thai girlfriend and returned to the USA with my new Thai bride. Bought house with VA mortgage. We worked twenty years in the USA socking 15% into tax deferred retirement plan and payed off our mortgage. 

 The company we worked for in the USA went bust so forced retirement at 60, sold the USA house, moved to Thailand, bought house, living off our nest egg (retirement plan) until my FRA (full retirement age) Social Security benefits kick in about 4 more years. It will work out just fine. Pretty simple plan basically called living within our means, avoid credit cards, no unnecessary spending, living "frugally" but not cheaply - never wanted for anything. 


Call it luck, or advanced planning, but really, it's just practicing common sense "live within your means" and realize this simple truth "money is for saving NOT spending"


At your ripe old age of 45 you can do the same. Review, Plan, Implement. The sooner you start the easier it'll be. The two important things are "Live Within Your Means" and "Save for Tomorrow". Oh, and *You* gotta do it, ain't no one gonna do it for you.   



Some options that I have thought of:
One or two rental properties in your home country (mine is the United Kingdom) ? Landlording is hard work and extremely difficult if from afar 
Dividend paying shares? markets returns fluctuate and require a considerably large nest egg to provide adequate returns to live off of - but, *this is the most viable of your options * 
Rental property in Thailand? Landlording is hard work and extremely difficult if from afar 
Buy some farm equipment and rent it out to the locals (probably not a good idea as the big man of the moo ban does that) will probably make your wife a widow
Buying a lot of lottery tickets and visiting the temple frequently to facilitate more wins? That's the Thai way


Good Luck With It

----------


## OhOh

> they are when you have to THROW AWAY the ones that are black INSIDE.


You or your misses needs to know how to select potatoes.




> FRA (full retirement age) Social Security benefits kick in about 4 more years. It will work out just fine.


Good luck, a reasonable plan and one many await for it to kick in. One hopes it does and the exchange rates hold up. Currently "It's too early to say".

----------


## Dead Metal

> What's the point of working your life away in the UK for 10years in Thailand? And that's at a point where you're too old to do anything.



Yes its a big price to pay but he would have money coming in for the rest of his life, ( state pension ) , better than nothing !

----------


## NamPikToot

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would move from their homeland to Thailand or any other place for that matter and then get bent out of shape when things do quite work out. if you consciously made the decision and sold up in your homeland and have no option to return then you really only have yourself to blame. I have known quite a few expats for years who over the past 10 years have gradually, inexplicably become verbally sour with me as to why i still maintain and will continue to maintain property in UK etc. The simple answer is because i can and will continue to. No one has a crystal ball to help them understand what the future holds but you can make a conscious choice to hedge by not pigeon holing yourself into one option so if you do why get all bent out of shape with those that have chosen not to. Fukin beggars beleif.....or not.

----------


## NamPikToot

And another thing............. erm, if you can only afford ayam baked beans you need to leave or develop a very good home cooked version, just remember to post the recipe on the kitchen thread for those who will otherwise have to leave Thailand because of baked bean deficiency. I mean...baked beans can literally be the straw that broke the camels back.

----------


## fishlocker

Damn, i just had a pertiffany. No not the neighbors kid or pie.

I'm thinking sauce.  That's right, fishes sauce. Bound to be a hit in Asia. We'll take the continent by storm.

Just need a brand name.

Wait I've got it, Uncle Harries fish sause.

----------


## fishlocker

Tired of dishes with tropical fishes?
Bananas and leave before one could grieve.

Try Uncle Harry's fish sauce at your local New Delhi now.

----------


## bobo746

Worked until i was 55 paid off a couple of mortgages, own a unit in brissie,a house in Pak Thong Chai can claim my superannuation tax free after 60(now) get pension at 65.Worked out well. :Smile: Life is good.

----------


## HuangLao

> Why not just piss off back to Wales, Taffy? You can buy all your UK food items there without the extra expense of transporting them thousands of miles.



A decent and sound suggestion for many.....

----------


## fishlocker

> Worked until i was 55 paid off a couple of mortgages, own a unit in brissie,a house in Pak Thong Chai can claim my superannuation tax free after 60(now) get pension at 65.Worked out well.Life is good.


Damn Dude don't look a day over 40.

----------


## fishlocker

I'm not knocking what you've done. Not in the least.  I've Been there and done that in my own way so to say.

----------


## fishlocker

You look about 30ish. 
You know with the right hair color...


Never mind....


The fish

----------


## fishlocker

Green is the color of her eyes...











Fish

----------


## headhunter

> Why not just piss off back to Wales, Taffy? You can buy all your UK food items there without the extra expense of transporting them thousands of miles.


sorry nev.if I struck a nerv.but I like it here.if you would like to come for tea,on the way from TAFFYLAND,welsh cakes,xmas puds and birds custard.no thorntons chocs. :cmn:

----------


## bowie

This thread concerning passive earnings has morphed considerably  Ill continue the morphing and yet attempt to bring it back to the OPs original questioning.

Cost-of-Living, Cost-of-Relocating, and basically, anything concerning money varies considerably from person-to-person, location-to-location and situation-to-situation.

Depending upon you and your significant other(s) desires, druthers, have already(s), must haves, and, would like to haves, numbers change and change significantly.

I can, and will, only speak for myself and my wife. The numbers are rounded but pretty much on-the-mark and correct. USA male 62yo, Thai wife 57yo, Thailand @ 3 years mid-90s, company went bust, relocated to the USA, 20 years living and working in the USA, company went bust. Sold all, consolidated nest egg, moved to Thailand for our retirement aka Golden Years. 

As per earlier post  socked 15% into a tax-deferred 401k retirement plan. Worked my entire life paying into the USA Social Security plan, engineer by trade so Ive contributed significant funds. Basically, when I start claiming in a few years I will receive a reasonable monthly benefit, as thing stand now, Ill receive more than enough to live comfortably in Thailand and not have to worry about pinching pennies or cutting coupons. If I stayed in the USA (northeast coast) I could live OK but, Id be watching pennies, clipping coupons, and well, scrimping and buying everything based on price and on the cheap.

We, wife and I did a three-month anniversary celebration and retirement planning sojourn to Thailand early '17, investigating legal requirements. Cost of Sojourn was USD @ $20k.

The move mid '17; temporary lodging(s), household goods packing, shipping and storage, miscellaneous costs including legal consultations, etc. was USD @ $30k.

Past couple of years 17 & 18 weve been spending USD @ $40k/annum

For the most part the selling and buying of our housing was close to a fair trade. 
Generalization; we traded a 60 year old house in the USA for a new house in Nonthaburi.


So, for the OP, at 45 years old you are in/at your peak earning years. The key to everything is savings  start today, investing 15-20% of your earnings. Invest conservatively into a well-diversified portfolio. Set it up with a professional investment firm (due diligence required in selecting the firm). Then, pretty much ignore it. It will grow. 

Of all options available  savings and investing is the proven method of achieving the goal of a secure retirement. 

Running a business, be it a store, a service company, or real estate rentals, is costly, time consuming and financially perilous. Not to take away from the successful businessmen among us (Im not one of them) but, far more failures and nest egg losses than success stories. I know of several failures and only one success story  and the success spoiled a friend and turned him into a rich, miserable bastard whose only concern was people stealing from his fortune and/or off-his-plate.

Anyway, our USA Social Security payments should be slightly above average. USA social security is based on your highest thirty-five years of contributions. Me as an engineer will exceed the average payment, my wife with only 20 years of contributing will receive considerably less than average, but, she can claim as my spouse. 2019 average USA Social Security will be about $1.4k/mo X 2, we should receive about $3k/mo ($36k/annum). It will work for us. 

It will work for you, but, you have to start now. The longer you wait, the longer you will have to wait before you retire. And, unfortunately for most of us. Few get to choose their retirement date, medical problems or un-employability typically determine when you will be forced into the ranks of the retired.

Good luck.

----------


## fishlocker

Nothing is easy.

Save early and often. As for passive income ask my kid when I pass. 

Seriously property is good if you're in it.  Beats a park bench on a cold winters night.

----------


## OhOh

> have money coming in for the rest of his life, ( state pension )


Lets hope all investments, continue to flow at an acceptable rate.




> I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would move from their homeland to Thailand or any other place for that matter and then get bent out of shape when things do quite work out


Having a plan "B" is important. Mine is not returning to a place I left behind. There are other mountains to climb, waterfalls to be splashed by, bushes to clear and caves to explore.




> claim my superannuation tax free after 60(now) get pension at 65.


Yes the idea of guaranteed pensions have always been enticing, I look forward to the pension funds delivering the dream.

----------


## cyrille

> There are other mountains to climb, waterfalls to be splashed by, bushes to clear and caves to explore...


Wow, when was the last time you climbed a mountain or explored a cave?

Clearing some bushes sounds more believable, along with positive stories about putin from RT to c+p...fallacious 'links' to western powers to dribble on about semi-coherently...  :Very Happy:

----------


## NamPikToot

> Worked until i was 55 paid off a couple of mortgages, own a unit in brissie,a house in Pak Thong Chai can claim my superannuation tax free after 60(now) get pension at 65.Worked out well.Life is good.


Some jealous fuker will be along shortly to ask for some of your passive income to help with their weekly Ayams shop.

----------


## Luigi

> There are other mountains to climb, waterfalls to be splashed by, bushes to clear and caves to explore.





> Wow, when was the last time you climbed a mountain or explored a cave?


Metaphors can difficult for the simple among us.  :Smile:

----------


## cyrille

'bushes to clear' fails badly if he's using metaphor.

Want to compare English Lit. study records?

Your only time spent studying after 15 was when in jail.  :Very Happy:

----------


## NamPikToot

> 'bushes to clear' fails badly if he's using metaphor.
> 
> Want to compare English Lit. study records?
> 
> Your only time spent studying after 15 was when in jail.


I'm finding this stressful

----------


## OhOh

> 'bushes to clear'


With one of these:



useful in "caves" as well.

----------


## Luigi

^ He is a bit slow on the uptake, our Simple.




> 'bushes to clear' fails badly if he's using metaphor.


You think he was being literal?  :Smile:

----------


## cyrille

> He is a bit slow on the uptake


You really will grasp at any straw, won't you.

----------


## Luigi

> You think he was being literal?


That would be a yes, then.  :Smile:

----------


## cyrille

Slow day, eh?

Maybe it's time for a roller-coaster shortbread thread?

You should be able to crowbar a few boasts about your sexual prowess with prozzies in there somewhere.  :Wink:

----------


## Luigi

Simple's pulse quadruples to 4 bpm.  :Smile: 


Have a sit down bud, you have to sing _Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes_ for a class of bored Arabs in a minute.  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

^

 :bananaman:

----------


## Maanaam

> You really will grasp at any straw, won't you.


Yes, but nobody's none the wiser.  :Smile:

----------


## headhunter

> Heinz are 75 baht a can while decent spuds are 55 baht/kilo


the best substitute you can buy here in los.BROOK on offer at foodland 50bht.a tin.

----------


## YourDaddy

Being the same age as OP I wonder how would you manage insurance in Thailand once you're past 60?

The insurance thing is only going to get worse. I am 45 and I already feel like chocking on my acid reflux. May get my residence in Canada back next year for free healthcare. Can't get that in Thailand.

From my first hand experience healthcare is really shit in Thailand. I can't afford the Bum hospital.

10mil condo for 50k a month sounds about right. The problem is how long will the place sit empty in Bangkok before it's rented out? Another problem is famous Thai maintenance, political uncertainty and floods. Who will want to rent your condo in 10 years when there are new shiny developments popping up everywhere?

----------


## cyrille

^^ You simply must have a brillo pad where everyone else has taste buds.

----------


## NamPikToot

> ^^ You simply must have a brillo pad where everyone else has taste buds.


Cy you've become incoherent again. Mandy was saying he was having trouble with you on the Daily Moan as well

----------


## toddmeister

> So buy a second property in the Uk to rent out.? 
> 
> Most people in the UK can't even afford a first property and for expats with no ties to the country the amount of money involved would be a significant nest egg in itself. 
> 
> If I had £150K+ going spare by the time I reach that stage I wouldn't sink it into property to rent in a far off land, rather I'd want to invest it in something where I choose to put my feet up and have a close eye on it. 
> 
> Sure there may be more security in bricks and mortar in a reliable economy back home, but I would hope to make more of that money and something tangible to occupy me in my retirement.





> A £150k investment in the UK in a property were you have a reliable letting agent will return £6k a year, similar to a state pension. 
> You also have the safe investment of a property that will gradually increase in value.


Probably already been dismissed as an option. But £150k in certain areas of the UK would get you multiple rental properties.  For example, where I live the increase in private landlords buying up cheap properties has driven the price (and the area) right down.  I paid £80k for my 2bed terrace 11 years ago.  Its currently on the market and we've dropped it from £70k to £55k with no luck.  Ours is probably the best available, but the properties which are actually selling are going for as little as £40-£45k.  I can't see them going any lower so "should" go up in time.  Each rents out for around £450 per month. Probs cost more in maintenance than just one property in a better area & there are some shitbags will trash them every now and then, but just saying to give people an idea of whats out there at the minute

----------


## OhOh

> Each rents out for around £450 per month


There are maximum rents, varying by area in the UK, based on DHSS tables. These usually determine the rental income.

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## Dragonfly

> Probably already been dismissed as an option. But £150k in certain areas of the UK would get you multiple rental properties.  For example, where I live the increase in private landlords buying up cheap properties has driven the price (and the area) right down.  I paid £80k for my 2bed terrace 11 years ago.  Its currently on the market and we've dropped it from £70k to £55k with no luck.  Ours is probably the best available, but the properties which are actually selling are going for as little as £40-£45k.  I can't see them going any lower so "should" go up in time.  Each rents out for around £450 per month. Probs cost more in maintenance than just one property in a better area & there are some shitbags will trash them every now and then, but just saying to give people an idea of whats out there at the minute


that's actually not a bad deal,

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## slimboyfat

> Probably already been dismissed as an option. But £150k in certain areas of the UK would get you multiple rental properties.  For example, where I live the increase in private landlords buying up cheap properties has driven the price (and the area) right down.  I paid £80k for my 2bed terrace 11 years ago.  Its currently on the market and we've dropped it from £70k to £55k with no luck.  Ours is probably the best available, but the properties which are actually selling are going for as little as £40-£45k.  I can't see them going any lower so "should" go up in time.  Each rents out for around £450 per month. Probs cost more in maintenance than just one property in a better area & there are some shitbags will trash them every now and then, but just saying to give people an idea of whats out there at the minute



Which area is that? 
I have one buy to let now and looking for another. Cheers

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## toddmeister

Sunderland......and most of the surrounding cities in the north east will have similar areas

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## slimboyfat

The north east is still pretty much a mystery to me though (I am from the south west) so I would struggle to know the right places etc. Probably using a property sourcing company would be the answer - if I could find one that was trustworthy!

The rental yields do sound good though. I'm just about getting a 5% yield on the terraced house I bought in Plymouth - and that cost GBP 170k - ofcourse bought with a buy to let (expat) mortgage.

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## lom

> I have one buy to let now and looking for another. Cheers


Hold your horses for a while, Brexit is likely to make house prices drop.

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## jabir

> the best substitute you can buy here in los.BROOK on offer at foodland 50bht.a tin.


3 for 16x at Makro, probably 9.

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## toddmeister

> The north east is still pretty much a mystery to me though (I am from the south west) so I would struggle to know the right places etc. Probably using a property sourcing company would be the answer - if I could find one that was trustworthy!
> 
> The rental yields do sound good though. I'm just about getting a 5% yield on the terraced house I bought in Plymouth - and that cost GBP 170k - ofcourse bought with a buy to let (expat) mortgage.


I would just contact local estate agents.  The last people that viewed my property were investors organised through my agent , an English couple living in France.  They came over to view several in the area but had also never been to Sunderland.

I also had a hand written letter through this week. It was from another "investor" based in Sheffield.  They were offering £41k for mine (without viewing) which is currently on at offers over £55k originally dropped from £70k.  Just shows what crazy prices even the decent terraces are going for.  Honestly can't see the prices going any lower, Brexit or no Brexit!

We've now decided to stay put for a while.  I've started overpaying my mortgage, not by a considerable amount. But I wish I'd started sooner.  If I can maintain my current overpayment my mortgage term will drop from the existing 23 years to 11 years and will save me £21k on interest.  It's nuts!  Theoretically I could be mortgage free in 10 years before I'm 50.  I guess we could possibly  then get another mortgage & buy a second house before I retire which would then leave us with 2x homes in the UK to rent out and supplement a possible retirement in Thailand in the future.  Thats my (very) rough retirement plan anyway

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## slimboyfat

> I would just contact local estate agents.  The last people that viewed my property were investors organised through my agent , an English couple living in France.  They came over to view several in the area but had also never been to Sunderland.
> 
> I also had a hand written letter through this week. It was from another "investor" based in Sheffield.  They were offering £41k for mine (without viewing) which is currently on at offers over £55k originally dropped from £70k.  Just shows what crazy prices even the decent terraces are going for.  Honestly can't see the prices going any lower, Brexit or no Brexit!
> 
> We've now decided to stay put for a while.  I've started overpaying my mortgage, not by a considerable amount. But I wish I'd started sooner.  If I can maintain my current overpayment my mortgage term will drop from the existing 23 years to 11 years and will save me £21k on interest.  It's nuts!  Theoretically I could be mortgage free in 10 years before I'm 50.  I guess we could possibly  then get another mortgage & buy a second house before I retire which would then leave us with 2x homes in the UK to rent out and supplement a possible retirement in Thailand in the future.  Thats my (very) rough retirement plan anyway


I'm not a complete stranger to Sunderland. The marine services company I used to work for had an office there and I spent almost a month there on induction training in 2010-ish. They put me up in a flat in a block near the Winter Gardens and opposite a Wetherspoons. Imagine the joy of living opposite a Wetherspoons when I was used to 10+ quid a pint here in Singapore. I may even have sung a karaoke song in Sinatras on one or two evenings. Happy days.

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## toddmeister

Good god I hope your view of Sunderland wasn't entirely based on those two establishments!!

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## slimboyfat

After monthly mortgage payments, landlord insurance and letting agent fees I am making GBP 100 a month on the terraced house that I bought in Plymouth last year and am now renting out.

Would need quite a lot of houses for a passive income!

Oh well, at least the mortgage payments are covered by the rent.

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## Luigi

^ How long til paid off?

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## AntRobertson

Similar to me but don’t forget the equity you’re building and potential capital gains as well.

Not quite income granted but it could be in the future.

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## slimboyfat

> ^ How long til paid off?


20 years - it was only ever a plan for my old age!

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## NamPikToot

SBF you must be younger than I'd thought. 

Overpaying, is that an option as that can save a lot of interest payments and reduce your mortgage substantially over that time frame, even what you'd imagine are relatively small amounts can make a big difference over time.

The house in the UK also, God forbid, does give you a fallback position if things don't go to plan

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## Dragonfly

> 20 years - it was only ever a plan for my old age!


Buy 4 or 5 of them,

but with Brexit, don't expect prices going up over 20 years

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## buriramboy

> After monthly mortgage payments, landlord insurance and letting agent fees I am making GBP 100 a month on the terraced house that I bought in Plymouth last year and am now renting out.
> 
> Would need quite a lot of houses for a passive income!
> 
> Oh well, at least the mortgage payments are covered by the rent.


I presume you're also aware of tax changes regarding income from buy to let properties. Also the phasing out of mortgage tax relief.

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## cyrille

> I presume you're also aware of tax changes regarding income from buy to let properties.


Well since he bought the place last year and is already renting it out it's pretty certain he'll be aware of that. 

Do you _ever_ read the post you're responding to properly?

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## buriramboy

> Well since he bought the place last year and is already renting it out it's pretty certain he'll be aware of that. 
> 
> Do you _ever_ read the post you're responding to properly?


Here we go again simple Sybil jumping in with nothing to add other than his usual boring drivel. Well seeing as some of the changes were only announced after he bought and will only be taking effect in April you retarded mong maybe you should read the post and educate yourself. Potless TEFLer.

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## rickschoppers

> This thread concerning “passive earnings” has morphed considerably – I’ll continue the morphing and yet attempt to bring it back to the OP’s original questioning.
> 
> Cost-of-Living, Cost-of-Relocating, and basically, anything concerning money varies considerably from person-to-person, location-to-location and situation-to-situation.
> 
> Depending upon you and your significant other(s) desires, druthers, have already(s), must haves, and, would like to haves, numbers change and change significantly.
> 
> I can, and will, only speak for myself and my wife. The numbers are rounded but pretty much on-the-mark and correct. USA male 62yo, Thai wife 57yo, Thailand @ 3 years mid-90’s, company went bust, relocated to the USA, 20 years living and working in the USA, company went bust. Sold all, consolidated nest egg, moved to Thailand for our retirement aka “Golden Years”. 
> 
> As per earlier post – socked 15% into a tax-deferred 401k retirement plan. Worked my entire life paying into the USA Social Security plan, engineer by trade so I’ve contributed significant funds. Basically, when I start claiming in a few years I will receive a reasonable monthly benefit, as thing stand now, I’ll receive more than enough to live comfortably in Thailand and not have to worry about pinching pennies or cutting coupons. If I stayed in the USA (northeast coast) I could live “OK” but, I’d be watching pennies, clipping coupons, and well, scrimping and buying everything based on price and on the cheap.
> ...



One thing we Americans forget is that if Social Security is your only means of income, there are no taxes due. That's right, your Social Security payments are tax free. Another little known fact is that if you have a depenant under the age of 18, you will receive another 50% of your maximum. This does not mean go out and have a child, but I began drawing my Social Security at the age of 64.5 and had a son who was 2.5 years at the time. I did not find out about this additional sum until he was 5 years old. I then applied and now collect 150% of my max which puts me at about $3,300.00US per month. It is my only income and we live quite well here in Thailand. My son is now 8 years old and I will receive this 150% payout for another 10 years, or until I am dust whichever comes first, so there are other ways to have a decent income here other than retirement plans and business ideas.

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## slimboyfat

> I presume you're also aware of tax changes regarding income from buy to let properties. Also the phasing out of mortgage tax relief.


Yes it's a concern if you have a number of properties and another income in UK (from employment etc).
I am not resident in UK, my main income is from my employment in Singapore which has a double taxation treaty with UK - so my only UK income is the rent on this one property -  which is below the Personal Allowance.

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## slimboyfat

> Buy 4 or 5 of them,
> 
> but with Brexit, don't expect prices going up over 20 years


I got divorced from a Singaporean. I don't have much cash left, and I am still paying a big wedge of my salary every month to her too!

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## slimboyfat

> SBF you must be younger than I'd thought. 
> 
> Overpaying, is that an option as that can save a lot of interest payments and reduce your mortgage substantially over that time frame, even what you'd imagine are relatively small amounts can make a big difference over time.
> 
> The house in the UK also, God forbid, does give you a fallback position if things don't go to plan


I was 46 last week. 
Yes, if and when I get the chance I will be overpaying on the mortgage!

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## Dragonfly

> I got divorced from a Singaporean. I don't have much cash left, and I am still paying a big wedge of my salary every month to her too!


jesus, that must have been expensive  :Smile:

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## fishlocker

So nine months into the year and how have we faired?  I did some stupid stuff that I thought was cool like jumping in and out of bonds. That pissed off my brokerage house. They told me I can't do that anymore. Fuggers. I was popping into treasuries near the end of the month to get the dividend. Then popping back into utilities for the growth and divs. Up 27% so about ....can't tell ya, it ain't right but not too bad. Would have been 30% plus if Trump wouldn't have made me jump with his trade "negotiations?" with China. 
How about you? Find that silver bullet?  Made any Headway? Get the rentals? I had a really smart gal, honest I would say, tell me that now is the time to sell, not the time to buy.

The reason I say that is because I had her do a recent markey analysis on the house I live in. Sure I could sell it for a pretty penny but I'd have to buy right back into the inflated market. I've only a few more years of the gerbil wheel and I'm out of here so I was looking at options, but that's another story. 
So how'd you do thus far. Any home runs, stolen bases or just safe at home?


fish.

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## bowie

> safe at home


Well, "safe at home" - the result of investing in tax deferred retirement accounts and ignoring them.  

My trading days are long over. Due diligence is just too damn much work. So, over the past thirty-plus-some years Ive been contributing to an actively managed brokerage account. Now, all I do is monitor. Usually twice a year analysis. 

Historically and averaged the brokerage firm has been delivering at an @ +10% annual return. 

Last analysis End-of-June shows an overall asset diversification of: 25% in Real Estate and 75% in investments. 

The investment portion in the broker managed accounts is/are 25% in tax free Roth accounts and 75% in tax deferred IRA accounts. The broker managed accounts ae distributed into fifteen or so mutual funds. To amplify a bit on the managed accounts, the brokers fees are 1.25% on an annual basis. And he/we keep my two Roth accounts on a $50/year maintenance basis as the brokerage fees are being assessed on my IRAs. And, to further assist myself, with the recent changes in the wire transfer brouhaha, used to be ACH distributions to NY Bangkok Bank, now IAT required  no can do. For our wire transfers the broker charges $2 for our monthly distribution SWIFT transfer. Cant beat that.  

Exempting/separating or setting aside my owned real estate assets  the broad investment diversification is; 40% Stock, 30% Bond and 30% Cash.

At my last full analysis End-of-June the Brokerage managed accounts have returned +10% for the six month period. If the trend continues, which I expect it will, should be about +20% return for the year 2019. Unless, of course, the Big One Hits  not the big one when California slides off into the pacific, the Big One when the bottom falls out of the world financial markets and we all wind up broke selling apples for a nickel on the street. 

For my part, the only active action I take in managing my moneys is shifting funds from the tax deferred IRAs to the tax exempt Roths.

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