#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Learn Thai Language >  >  A.U.A.

## Sumbitch

Going back to school on Tue. to learn Thai. I mean, back to A.U.A. Level 1 conversation course for the 4th time this year. Having experience, now, with students who want to learn Thai, there seems to be 3 types (not counting the quitter): the gung ho tourist out to make the most of a vacation then SYL, the maniac who always does what the teacher says, memorizes everything, studies at home and lost his life to the greater cause of success but doesn't love the language. My attitude is: attitude matters. I love the Thai language, I love learning things that blow my mind: like, cha means slow (git it?) and cha cha means very slow. Also you can say cha cha cha, if you like. But I hate to study. There's a time for everything. I spent 16 years getting a formal education, 3 more months (40 hour weeks) getting a technical one. I'm retired, I don't want to work that hard. So I don't study at home yet, or minimally. And part of my attitude is that there's a time for everything: i.e., take your time and be less stressed. 

Another thing, the workload at A.U.A. is way heavy. There's no textbook (you can still buy the original textbook which comes with CDs but the teaching methodology has advanced beyond it. They just haven't the means to rewrite one yet). But you can still fill up a notebook and they also give out a minimum of 2-5 mimeographed sheets _per day_. They charge 4800 THB for 2 hours/day, 5 days/week for 6 weeks. That's about 80 THB per student hour. The school has a great rep. and I believe in its methods (e.g., one rule is don't ask questions---everybody does but it puts the teacher on a different track). 

OK, so maybe you think I'm stupid but I did pass the middle of the 3 Level 1 courses I've finished so far. It's just that when you go to Level 2, the teacher speaks 100% Thai. I can't put up with that yet. And Thai is so complex, good teachers will teach the same course in an abundance of different ways, while following the same or nearly the same syllabus. (I've had the same teacher 2 out of the 3 times). I haven't felt bored at all: stressed, yes. 

Finally, I taught English to lower and middle school Thai students for 3 years. The curriculum requires every student to be taught English for all 12 years of their primary and secondary education. And they're taught English up to 3 times per week. Yet most 15-18 year-olds still can't say "hello, my name is Bill. How are you? Where are you from? What's your favorite sport? Let's go play outside?" and get appropriate responses back. AFTER 12 YEARS!

So, I'm a goal setter. I think the year is only half over. After 1 year, I may have taken Level 1 6 times but I hope to speak Thai better, then, than any Thai student I've taught, can speak English. Learn Thai? Yes. But learn it slow and easy at first. That way you'll love it as well as learn it. There will be time for the hard stuff later. I've been informed that Level 3 conversation students _must_ study at least 3-4 hours per day. And we're not even talking reading and writing yet. That comes after Level 4. One more goal I have: I don't care if I'm illiterate until I die, I just want to be fluent.

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## baldrick

Gor gai
Have you tried any on the free learn to write thai apps on Google play

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## Sumbitch

> Gor gai
> Have you tried any on the free learn to write thai apps on Google play


No, I'm a lazy student, requiring prodding. I hate to be embarrassed in front of classmates and teacher so push myself harder, I think, in that environment. Like I meant to say, learning Thai is hard work. It makes it easier when you can share the pain. Plus, there's a social network aspect to it, i.e., meeting new people.

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## toddaniels

Well, here's my review of AUA Bangkok on my friend Catherine Wenthworth's website

FWIW: the Bangkok branch teaches ONLY via Marvin Brown's ALG (Automatic Language Growth) method.. Their premise is children learn languages by listening and adults can do the same. 

I disagree 100% with the methodology. My argument is, the first thing kids learn to do once they can speak is ask "WHY?" The reason kids learn this way in the first place is they are forced to because they CAN'T talk yet. As adults we already possess our mother language, we have life experience and are able to make "leaps in logic" language wise which can facilitate the learning process..  Then again that's just my take on it, so it's probably not worth the time you wasted reading it.

Those ALG "passive listening classes" to me provide very little "bang-4-the-baht" for new learners of the thai language..  There are NO books, NO vocab lists, you can't ask questions. Instead you sit in a room with two thais who mime out stuff whilst speaking ONLY thai. They recommend you take between 600-800 hours BEFORE you start speaking thai.

The other branches and offices of AUA may teach via a more traditional  means i.e.; "karaoke" (example Hello = สวัสดี = sà wàt dii). Really  called phonemic transcription - the representation of thai  syllables/words using the roman alphabet and other characters to  represent vowel length, intonation. 

Now honestly, I dunno what Chiang Mai does (and I'm only hazarding a guess you're goin to the AUA branch up there from your profile location). There also Payap Uni up there which has a great thai program from what I've read.

The "workload" you reference in reality isn't all that "heavy", really. Most schools which teach module based intensive stuff are based off the original Union Thai School's material and methodology. Coincidentally I call those schools "Union Clone Schools" because they almost have carbon copies of the books. Those types of schools all teach 60 hour modules; 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 4 weeks. So the 2 hours a day, 5 days a week for 6 weeks is about average for "intensive thai" programs offered.  

Listen man, what ever motivates you to learn thai is a good thing!! 

The first 3 years I lived here I tried to compel thais to speak what passes for engrish in this neck of the woods.  I finally said to myself, "F*ck these people and their half-arsed engrish skills! I'm gonna learn thai just to spite them." So I did. 

I taught myself to read, write, touch type, speak and understand thai motivated to a large degree by spite. Granted it might not work for everybody, but I ain't everyone else.

Of course it also came to me, that while 1 percent of the world's population is certainly smarter than I am, it is a statistical impossibility that all 70 million of the 1 percent are thais.. If thais can learn thai, so could I.

Don't under estimate the power of spite, it's a mighty motivator... 

One last thing. I did write a dealy on Cat's website about "Students from Hell" Part 1  & Part 2 I found the thai teachers I interviewed said, to a person foreigners overestimated their actual ability in thai by a large margin. Even when it was proven during the interview they did not possess the skills to take "Level 2" conversation they refused to take "Level 1".

My advice, you ain't learning thai to impress none of the muther-felchers in your class and you certainly ain't learning it to impress the teacher. Take a level as many times as you need to so that you "get it", so the material sticks and so you can apply it when you go on to the next level.

Good luck,

NOTE 2 MODS: I hope it was okay to post links to my reviews and stuff on the forum. I didn't write any of that for profit, just to let people know what's what about learning the language.. If the posting of links contravenes forum rules, delete them.

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## Sumbitch

> Those ALG "passive listening classes" to me provide very little "bang-4-the-baht" for new learners of the thai language.. There are NO books, NO vocab lists, you can't ask questions. Instead you sit in a room with two thais who mime out stuff whilst speaking ONLY thai. They recommend you take between 600-800 hours BEFORE you start speaking thai.


Can't imagine that. Woulda turned me into a quitter real quick.




> The other branches and offices of AUA may teach via a more traditional means i.e.; "karaoke" (example Hello = สวัสดี = sà wàt dii). Really called phonemic transcription - the representation of thai syllables/words using the roman alphabet and other characters to represent vowel length, intonation.


Yeah, that's more like AUA CM. Like for the first 3 weeks, the first thing every morning is to practice pronunciation of the short and long vowels and complex vowels. The teacher writes them in phonemic transcription on the white board, points, speaks, prompts, etc. She'll mix the order and eventually just point to the transcripted vowels and prompt for the correct pronunciation. So what's so fuckin' frustrating is we're actually learning two languages. Not all of the vowels can be romanized, for example. Like there's a character like a '2' or a steroidal 'a', a 'u' with a horizontal slash thru it, then a double 'u' written that way. It's practically a whole new alphabet. Then the next 3 weeks the first thing the teacher does is ask all the students (thankfully, no more than 7-10) "Mua wanni long jack rian phassa thai khun tham ?araay" (yes, the '?' is a character, not a typo.)  :Smile: 




> The "workload" you reference in reality isn't all that "heavy", really. Most schools which teach module based intensive stuff are based off the original Union Thai School's material and methodology. Coincidentally I call those schools "Union Clone Schools" because they almost have carbon copies of the books. Those types of schools all teach 60 hour modules; 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 4 weeks. So the 2 hours a day, 5 days a week for 6 weeks is about average for "intensive thai" programs offered.


I meant intensive workload b/c you have to learn the pronunciation and spelling of the romanized transcription alphabet before you can speak a word of Thai. And, believe me, the course is not 'vocabulary light'. She'll give us paragraphs to translate into English with new Thai words that she'll define on the board but words that she's maybe used once or twice before (I mean, we get lists of fruit, have to count to 999999, family relationships). Once you've translated the paragraph, write 6 questions to ask your classmates. But you have to ask them all, all 6 questions...too much




> Listen man, what ever motivates you to learn thai is a good thing!!


Thanks for that. It does take motivation. And practice. So I noticed right away, if you fuck up a normal Thai sentence without adding 'krab' or 'cop' (northern thai pronunciation), strangers will ignore you at best, laugh at you to your face or after you've turned your back, or, at worst (the women are real good at this) will make these horrible gutteral sounds that just humiliate you. On the other hand, I noticed that if you don't pretend to be fluent by combining common English, "OK", "Bye,  bye", that sort of thing, with "Sawatee cop", "Subid mai cop", you have a window of opportunity to practice Thai and get some smiles back.  :Smile: 




> Don't under estimate the power of spite, it's a mighty motivator...


 :rofl:

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## toddaniels

The thing about learning to speak thai via "karaoke" is once you get the squirrelly characters down pronunciation-wise you can pretty much get really close to how it sounds when you read stuff written in karaoke. 

It's a crutch to get you speaking something resembling thai without having to front load learning the 44 thai consonants (which only make 21 sounds) because thai has 6-T's, 5-K's, 4-S's, 3-P's, etc down the line, AND you don't have to learn the 32 vowels with 28 different sounds, the tone marks and a plethora of other whacky stuff about this language, which would suck the will to live out of you if you had to learn it BEFORE you could even start to pronounce thai words. 

Think of karaoke as the "bridge over the river thai" to get you speaking.   :Smile:  I thought that up too so don't steal it...

Just so you know, my thai is off-toned and has a horrific Ohio hillbilly accent to it. I rarely crap (ครับ) at the end of sentences. I speak thai in a totally "un-thai" way. I'm direct, blunt, terse and often times borderline rude compared to the way these people speak their language. That's because I didn't want to give up who-what I am when I speak english (which is usually an asshole) just because I'm speaking to these people in their language. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

What amazes me is, I'm almost universally understood by any thai I speak to, ONCE they know I can speak thai.. 

Anecdotally, the worst thing you can ever do is walk up to a thai and immediately bust out in thai. 

Thais have a "secret selector switch" imbedded in their brains which they activate when they see a foreigner approaching.  They switch from "listen for thai" to "listen for english". Then when you bust out with your best thai, because they were listening for english, they couldn't understand you. 

It makes them get that glazed look in their eyes, plus they have to re-boot their entire O/S (and these people ain't bootin' off solid state hard-drives). They just go all "safe mode" on you and start repeatin' "My cow died" <- thai for "I don't understand" (ไม่เข้าใจ)

However, IF when you meet a strange thai (granted they're all pretty f-ing strange, but I mean one you've never met) and as you walk up you greet them with "Sweaty Crap", <- funny enough, thai for hello (สวัสดีครับ). Then ask how they're doin' "sà-baai dii mái" (สบายดีมั้ย), immediately the selector switch goes back to the default position of "listen for thai" and you should be okay with 'em after that. 

Those are what I call "phrozen phrasez" <- (that purposely uses z's because I thought it up, so don't red me)! Those constructs never change and thais have heard them a million times in their lives. The big plus to doing this "language dance" is that thais can see how badly you mangle those phrases and it gives them a reference point to your whacky foreign accented thai..

Here's one more tip. Take ANYTHING these people say about your spoken thai and chuck it in the bin. I have never met a more complimentary race of people when it comes to foreigners speaking their language than the thais.. There are a couple levels which thais will praise you at, first they're tellin' you that you pûut tai gèng (พูดไทยเก่ง) speak thai skillfully, then they're tellin' you that you pûut tai chát (พูดไทยชัด)  speak thai clearly, BUT... It's only when a thai you're speaking to NEVER EVER comments on the fact you are a white person speaking thai to them that you know you're making strides in thai. 

I know you can do it, after all I'm just a dumb hillbilly from Ohio, I have NO gift for language, and thai was the first 'second language' I learned. If I can do it I know just about anyone who really wants to can too.  It's the "wanting to" that's the make or break factor.     

Good luck  :Smile:  Honestly, IF I hadn't decided to learn thai I'd probably bailed outta this country LONG ago.. Now I feel I've got so much invested in the learning of it, I'm almost loathe to leave here..

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## baldrick

> ain't bootin' off solid state hard-drives


if you follow the computer threads you would know WJ ( I hope that does not stand for wank juice as I think our member withnall has copyright on WWJ )
cope with the difference between hard drives

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## Dragonfly94

Leaning to speak it is one thing, but after 21 years I still can't understand what the buggers saying back!

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## Sumbitch

> Leaning to speak it is one thing, but after 21 years I still can't understand what the buggers saying back!


Oh, that's funny. Got to be slowed down to 45 rpm, right? I was walking past a couple of caddies hanging outside of Kad Suan Kaew, right, thinkin' to meself: "all I gotta do in the next couple of years is be able to understand conversations like the one they're having. Don't have to stop and talk, just get an understanding of what they're saying." I don't think so.   :beer:

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## toddaniels

It's true, sometimes thais seem to be speaking at 78rpm like those old 1/4 inch thick Victor records for the wind-up Victrola record players.

There are a couple of tricks you can use to increase your understanding. 

First off thai as it's spoken contains a plethora of "fill in words" which can be discounted right out of the gate. They're not completely meaningless, as they do add important emotional clues to what's being said, as well as how the listener is taking the information in. With that being said, early on for a foreign listener they can be skipped with little real impact to the overall understanding what is being talked about. Most of these are called ending particles, which are used in thai to provide emotive value to what's being said seeing as you can't really vary intonation in thai like english to do that. They're almost all single syllable words, or sounds added at the end of sentences.  

Secondly, know that in colloquial thai, the subject is either mentioned in the first sentence and then never mentioned again, OR if it's understood by both parties it's never mentioned at all.  This means walkin' in on a conversation already underway you might know the what but you won't know the who.

Learning to speak thai has to go hand in hand with understanding the information comin' back from who you're speaking to. You can't have half the pieces and no box with a picture on it and think you're gonna put the puzzle together. It don't work that way. 

Listen for verbs, adjectives, adverbs, to get a rough idea of the action being discussed.. Then try to listen for nouns, pronouns, names to get an idea of who that action is affecting..

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but eavesdropping on these people when they're talkin' ain't gonna give you the keys to the kingdom.. You'd be surprised just how mundane and shallow the topics these people tlak about are..  It is a wide spread rumor (perpetrated by foreigners who can't speak/understand thai for shit) that thais conversations revolve around food, weather, money, etc.. It's certainly not the case, but they ain't talkin' about solving world hunger or the G8 summit either.

AUA Bangkok has a TON of their passive listening classes on You Tube, I mean level after level of them, watch some, hone your listening skills.. 

Good Luck.

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## baldrick

> Secondly, know that in colloquial thai, the subject is either mentioned in the first sentence and then never mentioned again,


that carries over to when they speak english to you also

you feel that you need to drag information out of them.

but to be fair I have noticed this with other nationalities also - it is common that I have to encourage technicians to communicate in technically correct language and precisely describing the equipment so as to communicate effectively without any ambiguity which is very important in technical conversations and can be quite helpful elsewhere

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## toddaniels

One thing that throws me is the way thais answer yes/no questions in reverse of how we do in english. 

I always have to re-ask the question so that it's more "multiple choice".

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## Dragonfly94

> Listen for verbs, adjectives, adverbs, to get a rough idea of the action being discussed.. Then try to listen for nouns, pronouns, names to get an idea of who that action is affecting..
> 
> Good Luck.


That's me done then, never was very good at languages- even at Englsih

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## toddaniels

> That's me done then, never was very good at languages- even at Englsih


Christ, not that beat to death excuse again. It's right up there with gems like; I'm too old to learnI can't hear the tonesMy thai wife, she sa-peak engrish goodI'm not very good at languages either, but I learned this one. 

It's motivation.. 

You're either motivated to learn or you make excuses why you can't/won't/don't learn thai.

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## Dragonfly94

just too lazy is my excuse and not interested enough

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## Sumbitch

It's true: you need the means to be motivated.

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## Sumbitch

Level 1, Day 2 (missed day 1): teacher defined words using hands (big, small, hot, cold, pretty,  delicious, like, delicous). Had us answering questions: Yiin yay, may? Yii pun roonyg, may? A.U.A. suay, may? America may suay, cop. Khun choop bier, may? Pom choop Chiang Mai. (<--- that's not the correct Q&A sequence, btw). Had us answering her as a group, asked us individually, has us ask her questions, had us Q&A the person next to us. Homework: write some correct questions and answers on tablet paper (not notebook). I guess she wants us t turn it in.

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## Neverna

khun kru suay mai?

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## toddaniels

> khun kru suay mai?


Neverna; IF you ask a question like that I'd wager you're NEVER gonna speak more than "2-word-tourist-thai", "taxi-thai" or "horse-peak".

I don't care if the thai teaching me is a dragon lady!! I'm tryin' to learn thai. 

If I want a young beautiful gurl, I'll grab a Soi side whore.

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## Sumbitch

> khun kru suay mai?


so-so, cop (northern Thai pronunciation. "Crab" is BKK pronunciation...Thanks, Todd!)

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## toddaniels

if a gurl isn't all that cute or all that ugly she's ไม่มีอะไรพิเศษ - nothing special, or เหมือนนกกระจอก - like a sparrow (a little more derogatory).. Because sparrows are all over, are plain looking and are nothing to get excited about. 

No, wjblaney; You are confused that I was writing ครับ in engrish, I wasn't I was writing CRAP; the american english word for SHIT. That's exactly how I pronounce it when I'm compelled to say it to these people. 

When I greet them I say "sweaty crap"; in perfect american english meaning 'a pile of shit that is sweaty', it's my bastardized greeting. I'm not big on mindless pleasantries with the thais. 

Every time a thai asks where I'm going ไปไหน? I answer, "goin' to catch a lost chicken" ไปจับไก่หลง which is an older idiom for 'gonna go pick up a street side whore'. Tell thais that once or twice and presto-chango they stop askin'!

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## Dragonfly94

when they ask me where i come from I say my house and the district. Even the comic MUM laughed at that when on TV with him a couple of months back. They laugh at anything here.

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## Norton

> One thing that throws me is the way thais answer yes/no questions in reverse of how we do in english.


Sometimes our questions are poorly worded. Guilty of it myself. 
"Are you not going to the market?"
"Yes"

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## Sumbitch

> When I greet them I say "sweaty crap"; in perfect american english meaning 'a pile of shit that is sweaty', it's my bastardized greeting. I'm not big on mindless pleasantries with the thais.


Wow. Spent 2 hours a day, 5 days a week for 6 weeks getting corrected by teacher if one 'crap' was not added to every sentence. I swear this to every God. I retook the class with the same teacher (not immediately after: 2 months or more) and she did not give a 'crap'. Now I understand you...HAVE A LUIGI






> Every time a thai asks where I'm going ไปไหน? I answer, "goin' to catch a lost chicken" ไปจับไก่หลง which is an older idiom for 'gonna go pick up a street side whore'. Tell thais that once or twice and presto-chango they stop askin'!


Teacher told us today don't answer, or spit or walk away when Thais ask "Thaw ray". Anyway, the rest of the day was spent counting from free to 9999

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## baldrick

> Every time a thai asks where I'm going ไปไหน? I answer, "goin' to catch a lost chicken" ไปจับไก่หลง


I used to try the " Bai ba - bai duui ? " but it went over their heads ( maybe it was my pronunciation - I am going mad , do you want to come ? )

now I just give them the bai noon and point in the direction I am heading

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## Sumbitch

> I used to try the " Bai ba - bai duui ? " but it went over their heads ( maybe it was my pronunciation - I am going mad , do you want to come ? )
> 
> now I just give them the bai noon and point in the direction I am heading


I cvnt wait 'till Jesus teaches me this language (i.e., I become enlightened).

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## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> khun kru suay mai?
> 
> 
> Neverna; IF you ask a question like that I'd wager you're NEVER gonna speak more than "2-word-tourist-thai", "taxi-thai" or "horse-peak".
> 
> I don't care if the thai teaching me is a dragon lady!! I'm tryin' to learn thai. 
> ...


Uhh, my post was not directed at you. It was a reply to wjblaney in response to the post (number 17) by ... wjblaney. Unless you are actually wjblaney.

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## Neverna

> I used to try the " Bai ba - bai duui ? " but it went over their heads ( maybe it was my pronunciation - I am going mad , do you want to come ? )


Perhaps because you forgot to add a question word. bai duui mai? bai duui gan mai? khun yaak bai duui mai?

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## Black Heart

Good on you WBlaney.

I also hope you visit the Foreign Language thread in the Lounge.

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## toddaniels

> Uhh, my post was not directed at you. It was a reply to wjblaney in response to the post (number 17) by ... wjblaney. Unless you are actually wjblaney.


What, is there new secret squirrel rule where we can only respond to the O/P of a thread? That's sure gonna put a crimp on the longevity of the threads...

Why am I always the last to know? :Smile:

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## Neverna

No, but if you had read wjblaney's post, you wouldn't have written such a stupid post in reply to mine.

Cut that, you are toddanielz. You probably would have.

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## toddaniels

^ Now was that comment about Tod Daniels, really necessary?

Strike that.. It probably was...
 (as an aside where is the strike thru character tab on this forum)?

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## Sumbitch

> I also hope you visit the Foreign Language thread in the Lounge.


Wow, yeah, if only. I've wanted to learn Spanish for years now (lived most of my life 100 miles from the Mexican border, lived most of my adult life in Santa Ana, CA with a total pop. of 333,000, 78% of which identify as Hispanic or Latino, have traveled to Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador). I've also lived for a year in the French quarter of Montreal, the most beautiful women, food and culture I've ever experienced. What I'd give to learn French.

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## toddaniels

Just wondering how the O/P is getting on with their thai studies?

Any progress reports?

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## Sumbitch

OK. Yeah, it's frustrating, as usual. Tough to grade my progress, too, but am upbeat about it. This teacher likes to test writing skills in the transcription language. Last night for homework, for example, she said write 5 sentences using the comparative "kwaa" (more than) and 5 using the superlative "thii sut" (the most). Then this morning she handed out a mimeograph sheet of 10 questions and we were tasked with writing the answers on the sheet. But after finishing, instead of handing it in we paired off and asked our partner for the 10 answers and she monitored each of the 5 conversations as her evaluation. So she mixes it up in a way that you can't anticipate, as a good teacher will. So I give her high marks.  :Smile:

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## toddaniels

Well, I dunno how much writing thai in karaoke will help you, because last time I checked thais can't read it. Plus once you make the leap to reading thai the karaoke version is useless.

Still, their must be some method to their madness, (or not given that this is thailand)...

Personally, I'd tell the teacher you don't have any interest in writing karaoke.. In fact off all the schools I've toured I've never seen one which makes students write ANYTHING using karaoke.. 

Good Luck..

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## Sumbitch

It's being able to pronounce thai words using a romanized alphabet that I like. So you can practice on your own for one thing. There's an exchange student in our class from China who is studying at Chiang Mai University for a year and before class or during breaks she reads and speaks under her breath: like counting from 1 to 9999. I think the karaoke style is an immense help. It's just that you have to go over it and over it and over it again until the grammar forms and vocab sinks in. So is it the speediest way to learn thai? I don't know. I'm not looking for that anyways. I wonder about her though. I don't know if she's taking classes in Thai yet. I know she wants to go on to be an MD so I figure she's got the brains to succeed. I do find it strange to have a full-time foreign exchange student in our class.

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## toddaniels

No wjblaney, I wasn't denigrating the "karaoke system" in the least.. I've seen it produce hundreds and hundreds of competent foreign speakers of thai over the years.. 

Like I say, "karaoke is the bridge over the river Thai" it gets foreigners speaking something resembling thai enough they can carry on a conversation if/when they make the jump to learning to read thai script..

As I said earlier, I've just never seen is a single school which has students write things in karaoke. 

Personally I can't see the reasoning behind it because it's primary use is as "training wheels" to get you speaking thai, understanding thai sentence structure BEFORE you invest the time it takes to read thai proficiently.

Still good luck, keep at it, you'll be fine.. Above all don't stress out!! Sheesh you're just studying thai, it's not like it's anything serious or life changing...

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## Sumbitch

I think we are right on the same page so I won't quote your whole post, just the bits that I think are relevant to this "karaoke system".




> No wjblaney, I wasn't denigrating the "karaoke system" in the least.. I've seen it produce hundreds and hundreds of competent foreign speakers of thai over the years..


I think I have an exact idea, as of just today, what you mean by this. The teacher rambles on at a speed that is impossible for new students to comprehend in its entirety. The students all ramble back what she prompts them to. Then she randomly asks one student at a time some question. There are maybe some words or form to the question that is comprehensible to us students but complete comprehension isn't at all what she is seeking. She just wants an answer. And my stupid classmates are all giving it to her. When she gets to me, I try to make sense out of the question rather than spout some incomprehensible babble back at her just because she asks me a question. If I can make sense out it, as well as know how to reply correctly, I will. If not, the best she'll get out of me is "mai sapp", but, usually, "phut tik thii" followed by "I don't know" or sometimes "huh?" or I won't say anything. I'm the only who does that and I know it's acceptable because the teachers have all told me personally the most important thing is to "just come to class and listen."




> Personally I can't see the reasoning behind it because it's primary use is as "training wheels" to get you speaking thai, understanding thai sentence structure BEFORE you invest the time it takes to read thai proficiently.


Exactly. The reasoning behind it is not to produce intelligent learners of the language. It's to produce speakers. But you can use the process to become an intelligent student of the language, as long as you're OK with your own behavior. I mean, mine is definitely nonconformist and the school is OK with that. I don't disrupt (for example, one rule is to not ask questions), I don't throw tantrums, I cooperate within my capability, I do the homework. But I'm no fuckin' parakeet.

And one more thing, I'm the only student I've heard say to her at the end of the class: "khop khun, krap". And guess what she does infallibly? She says "khop khun, ka!".

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## Sumbitch

Might as well bump this thread.

Well, it's over: that is, the 6 week course I took that kicked off this thread. Final evaluation: not so good. The long and the short of it is: 5 subject areas (Pronunciation, Tones, Vocabulary, Grammar Patterns, Comprehension), 3 possible scores (good, fair, poor). I scored fair in all 5 areas. Then there's the overall rating: AA (Above Avg.), A (Avg.) and BA (Below Avg.). She didn't mark it. Then there's one more box: RS (repeat due to scholastic). She marked that box and listed areas to be improved: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... :rofl: 

To be continued...

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## toddaniels

Well, at least you hung in there and gave it the college try.. That's something.. 

I'm not dialed into the schools up there so wouldn't know where to send you to try a different one..

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## Sumbitch

Haven't given up on the school. I have a ton of really good notes. But I always went thru school (Uni level) with the idea of taking really good notes for passing written exams. Thus cramming and passing with flying colors was no big deal. Of course, most of whatever was learned was soon forgotten. I'm not used to conversation based evaluations. I just have to keep at it until the memory decides to retain it all. Going to take a break now (trip to India for a couple of weeks) then come back and try it all over again. I still have met my objective if by the end of the year I have retaken the Basic Level 1 class two more times. Then Level 2 next year (fingers crossed).

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## Black Heart

How much speaking do you end up doing at the end of the course.

Meaning, how much of class time if you and the students speaking?


I'm aware of the "listen only" part. How long does that last?

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## Sumbitch

> How much speaking do you end up doing at the end of the course.
> 
> Meaning, how much of class time if you and the students speaking?
> 
> 
> I'm aware of the "listen only" part. How long does that last?


It's never in a lecture format. She'll speak for a minute or two at most before she start's prompting the students to speak. So I guess it's supposed to be about 50/50 but you know the teacher ends up speaking most of the time so I would say it's more like 60/40 but the most important thing is the listening, whether it's the students speaking or the teacher. I am downright silent most of the time. This is acceptable too, although not the brilliant thing to do, if you want to pass with flying colors. The teacher will just point to someone else. But it puts me on the spot and that helps too. We do have a few written evals that work like this: she'll have us list as many verbs, adj, nouns and question words we can think of, within a specific period of time. Then we'll put them into sentences and practice in pairs. Or she'll hand out mimeographs of about 16 questions which you have to write the answers to in a very short period of time. She's quite proactive and the class is _extremely_ interactive.

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## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> How much speaking do you end up doing at the end of the course.
> 
> Meaning, how much of class time if you and the students speaking?
> 
> 
> I'm aware of the "listen only" part. How long does that last?
> 
> ...


Very informative response, wj.

I am taking a class of French.  My speaking is low, but my listening is high as well as my reading - higher I mean (not "high level).

When I'm called sometimes I cop out and give a crap answer; other times I can use better usage.

I like classes, but they are a class. We go with the group. You cannot go too fast, nor go too slow. We are a group.

I could learn more quickly with a good private teacher (I found one) but I like the pace of the class and it's good to absorb vocab steadily and slowly.

But I realize (as I think you have) that "finishing" a class or a book does not mean one has mastered the course or can functionally use it. Often, it's the opposite. 

I read a grammar book and vocab book on my own out on the town as a hobby.


I will continue the Francais.

I'm also studying Chinese one-on-one and love it.

Good for the mind.

Good luck on your Thai. I hope you keep going, if you want to of course.

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## Sumbitch

> When I'm called sometimes I cop out and give a crap answer; other times I can use better usage.


Exactly.




> I like classes, but they are a class.


i.e., "work", not "boredom", not "fun". discipline is required to like work. How did you learn that?  :Smile: 




> I could learn more quickly with a good private teacher (I found one) but I like the pace of the class and it's good to absorb vocab steadily and slowly.


I thought at first the obviously best thing would be to go at my own speed, which a private teacher provides. Now I know: "you'd be a lazy bastard to the max."




> Good luck on your Thai. I hope you keep going, if you want to of course.


Same to you.  :Chairfall:

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## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> When I'm called sometimes I cop out and give a crap answer; other times I can use better usage.
> 
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A private teacher would be more work for you and it would be more intense because there is only you and the teacher. There's nowhere for you to cop out, hide at the back or pass on a turn at  speaking.

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## toddaniels

I've found in the beginning especially in thai conversational classes only group lessons are the way to go.. That is providing everyone is a beginner and not taking the class for the umteenth time so they can be a super-star in the retard thai class. <- no offense intended or implied...

Once you get a few modules or levels of conversation under your belt you can better benefit from a private teacher but early on it's almost a no brainer to take group classes given their low price point and the fact you gotta crawl before you walk and walk before you run, with the language.

Good luck..

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## Black Heart

[QUOTE=wjblaney;3079145]



> I like classes, but they are a class.


*
wjblaney:*



> i.e., "work", not "boredom", not "fun". discipline is required to like work. How did you learn that?





> I could learn more quickly with a good private teacher (I found one) but I like the pace of the class and it's good to absorb vocab steadily and slowly.


To clarify,

A class moves slower. A class is not really "work," but it can be "boring" depending on the situation and instructor and a class does not really require "discipline."

A private teacher requires ALL OF THIS.

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## Sumbitch

> Once you get a few modules or levels of conversation under your belt you can better benefit from a private teacher but early on it's almost a no brainer to take group classes given their low price point and the fact you gotta crawl before you walk and walk before you run, with the language.


Sounds like sage advice.

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## Sumbitch

> A private teacher would be more work for you and it would be more intense because there is only you and the teacher. There's nowhere for you to cop out, hide at the back or pass on a turn at speaking.


Exactly. Fuck more work.

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## Sumbitch

> A class is not really "work," but it can be "boring" depending on the situation and instructor and a class does not really require "discipline."


A class is not really "fun" either. So if it's neither "fun" nor "work" then, by definition, it is "boring".

I didn't mean discipline in the sense of group rules of behavior but in the sense of personal rules one abides by as his means of success in whatever endeavor. And abiding by one's own rules regarding learning _is_ required in a class, IMO.




> I could learn more quickly with a good private teacher (I found one) but I like the pace of the class and it's good to absorb vocab steadily and slowly.


I like this attitude.  :Smile:

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