#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > World News >  >  Russias Navalny in coma in ICU after alleged poisoning

## misskit

Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny is in a coma and on a ventilator in a hospital intensive care unit in Siberia after falling ill from suspected poisoning during a flight, his spokeswoman said Thursday morning.


The 44-year-old foe of Russias President Vladimir Putin felt unwell on a flight back to Moscow from Tomsk, a city in Siberia, Kira Yarmysh said on Twitter.


She said the plane made an emergency landing in Omsk, Siberia, and that Navalny was suffering from toxic poisoning.


He is in a coma in grave condition, she said on Twitter.


She also told the Echo Moskvy radio station that during the flight Navalny was sweating and asked her to talk to him so that he could focus on a sound of a voice. He then went to the bathroom and lost consciousness.


Yarmysh said the politician must have consumed something from tea he drank earlier in the morning at an airport cafe before boarding the plane.


Doctors are saying the toxin was absorbed quicker with hot liquid, she tweeted, adding that Navalnys team called police to the hospital.


Russias state news agency Tass reported that the politician is in grave condition, citing the chief doctor at the hospital.


Last year, Navalny was rushed to a hospital from prison where he was serving a sentence following an administrative arrest, with what his team said was suspected poisoning. Doctors then said he had a severe allergic attack and discharged him back to prison the following day.


Navalnys Foundation for Fighting Corruption has been exposing graft among government officials, including some at the highest level. Last month, he had to shut the foundation after a financially devastating lawsuit from Yevgeny Prigozhin, a businessman with close ties to the Kremlin.


Belarus authoritarian President Alexander Lukashenko accused Navalny last week of organizing unprecedented mass protests against his re-election that have rocked Russias ex-Soviet neighbor since Aug. 9. He did not, however, provide any evidence and that claim was one of many blaming foreign forces for the unrest.


Like many other opposition politicians in Russia, Navalny has been frequently detained by law enforcement and harassed by pro-Kremlin groups. In 2017, he was attacked by several men who threw antiseptic in his face, damaging one eye.


The most prominent member of Russias opposition, Navalny campaigned to challenge Putin in the 2018 presidential election, but was barred from running.


He set up a network of campaign offices across Russia and has since been putting forward opposition candidates in regional elections, challenging members of Russias ruling party, United Russia.


In the interview with Echo Moskvy, Yarmysh said she believed the suspected poisoning was connected to this years regional election campaign.


Vyacheslav Gimadi, a lawyer with Navalnys foundation, said the team is requesting Russias Investigative Committee open a criminal probe.


There is no doubt that Navalny was poisoned because of his political stance and activity, Gimadi said in a tweet on Thursday.


Navalny is not the first opposition figure to come down with a mysterious poisoning. In 2018, Pyotr Verzilov, a member of Russias protest group Pussy Riot, ended up in an intensive care unit after a suspected poisoning and had to be flown to Berlin for treatment. Opposition activist Vladimir Kara-Murza was hospitalized with poisoning symptoms twice  in 2015 and 2017. Both said they believed they were poisoned for their political activity.

Russia’s Navalny in coma in ICU after alleged poisoning – Thai PBS World

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## Saint Willy

Shocking, but not shocking.

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## harrybarracuda

Not shocking at all. I wonder what poison Putin  ordered this time?

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## harrybarracuda

> Both Mr Navalny's wife, Yulia Navalnaya and doctor, Anastasia Vasilyeva, had arrived at the hospital but were being denied access to him, Ms Yarmysh said.
> 
> Mrs Navalnaya "is not allowed because 'the patient did not agree to the visit'", Ms Yarmysh said.


Alexei Navalny: Russian opposition leader 'poisoned' - BBC News

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## Saint Willy

Brutal! 

And to think that Trump admires this man and his leadership!

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## Backspin

> Not shocking at all. I wonder what poison Putin  ordered this time?


Inflation is too low in Russia. Gotta pour the sanctions on to fix that.

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## Backspin

> Shocking, but not shocking.




Hey let's poison a guy with 2% political support and reap all the negative PR and economic sanctions that will come with it.

You really believe that they reason different than us. They are really psychotic morons who can't see how this is not worth it to them.

Because they are evil. And we are good.

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## harrybarracuda

Looks like Backspin wants Klondyke's spot on the podium.

He's trying hard.

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## Backspin

In WW2 , the Russians paraded a troop of captured German soldiers down red square. But the spectacle backfired. The Russians who came to see it realized that they were just regular people too. They didn't have horns coming out of their head or anything. They were just pawns sent to war like they were

People like you haven't seemed to grasp this yet. You are being duped into war and are complicit in it if you are taking nonsense like this story at face value

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## harrybarracuda

Backspin has a dazzling ability to post irrelevant bollocks in an attempt to make a point, but you never really know what that point is.

It's a far cry from pinky and perky's incessant whataboutism.

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## OhOh

*Doctors say condition of Moscow protest leader Navalny has stabilized, as Kremlin promises probe if traces of poison are found*

20 Aug, 2020 18:29   / Updated 2 hours ago

_"__The team treating Alexey Navalny has managed to stabilize his  condition, a lead medic has said. Dr Anatoly Kalinichenko said Russias  best-known anti-corruption activist was in intensive care and getting  the necessary treatment.      
__
The doctor also said there  are no plans to transfer Navalny to Moscow. His supporters have  requested that be moved to Germany or France so he can be admitted to a  specialist clinic. Earlier, President Vladimir Putin's spokesman Dmitry  Peskov said that if the Kremlin or the Russian Health Ministry  received a request for Navalnys transfer to a foreign hospital, it  would be considered promptly.
__
So far, we have held  several telemedical consultations with our countrys leading experts,  who are able to provide consultations regarding this patient, Dr Kalinichenko told reporters on Thursday evening. All  of them think that all treatment and diagnostical efforts have been  conducted correctly and to a full extent. The fact that we have managed  to stabilize him, to get the current clinical picture, gives cause for  cautious optimism regarding his state."
__
According to Dr  Kalinichenko, the experts ruled out that Navalny may have had a heart  attack, a stroke or that he contracted coronavirus. There is no data on traumatic injuries, including traumatic brain injury, he detailed. There is no evidence of stroke or acute myocardial infarction... we didn't find any covid infections. The regional Ministry of Health also said that the activist does not have cerebral edema._
_
Meanwhile,  Peskov has pledged that authorities will launch an investigation if it  emerges the Moscow protest leader was poisoned. The statement came as S7  airlines revealed that the activist did not eat or drink anything on  board his scheduled flight from Siberia to the capital.
_
_First, we need to wait for the final test results that will help  doctors determine what happened, what caused this situation, what  caused [Navalny] to lose consciousness, the spokesman explained. After  that, if a poisoning took place, if there are corresponding statements  or, if the law enforcement makes other decisions, there will be an  investigation.
__
The Kremlin press secretary refused to  comment on reports of several police arriving at the hospital where  Navalny is currently receiving treatment. When asked whether Putin had  been informed of the incident, Peskov noted that the general  situation described in the media... is accessible to absolutely  everyone, it is accessible to the Russian leader as well, through media  reviews that he receives on a regular basis. Peskov noted that the situation is transparent, as doctors regularly inform people of what they are doing, of the condition the patient is in.
__
When  asked whether the Kremlin considers the situation with Navalnys  possible poisoning a special case due to the critical attitude of the  opposition politician to the current government, Peskov said that the current government has many critics. He added that of  course, if the life of a Russian citizen is under threat, the situation  is serious. Both doctors and law enforcement treat all citizens equally  seriously.
__
The doctors are doing everything that needs to be done, the best doctors in Omsk are engaged, Peskov pointed out, adding that, according to media reports, Omsk medical workers are employing telemedicine techniques and holding consultations with experts from Moscow.
_
_The  press service of the regional health ministry department said that  Navalny is currently in a natural coma, according to news agency TASS. Currently, the patient is in a natural coma, he is still on an artificial lung ventilation machine, it stated.
__
On  Thursday morning, Navalnys spokeswoman Kira Yarmysh said that the  plane carrying the blogger, YouTube star, anti-corruption activist and  Moscow protest leader had made an emergency landing in Omsk after he  suddenly felt unwell in mid-flight. According to Yarmysh, Navalny only  drank tea in the morning. She claimed that he may have been poisoned."_ 

Doctors say condition of Moscow protest leader Navalny has stabilized, as Kremlin promises probe if traces of poison are found  RT Russia News

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## Saint Willy

As predictable as a steamin, black gush of shite from anus after a night on Guinness.

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## Backspin

> Backspin has a dazzling ability to post irrelevant bollocks in an attempt to make a point, but you never really know what that point is.
> 
> It's a far cry from pinky and perky's incessant whataboutism.


You are supporting war with Russia.

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## jabir

Just as well he isn't Russian, otherwise people might think Putin had a hand in it.










 :Smile:

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## panama hat

> Kremlin promises probe if traces of poison are found


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

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## Backspin

Well see if this is like Salisbury. Where the FSB special agents flew side by side , direct to Britain on an Aeroflot flight. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Backspin

> 


That is such a historicaly ass backward and ridiculous comparison , it's hard to know where to begin.

No country , no society , takes WW2 more seriously than Russia. No country suffered more because of the nazis than Russia. Putins brother was killed by the nazis in Leningrad.

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## OhOh

*German NGO sends in ambulance plane to pick up 'poisoned' Kremlin critic Navalny at Pussy Riot co-founder's request* 


_20 Aug, 2020 21:17  

__          "The Berlin-based Cinema for Peace Foundation has readied an  ambulance aircraft, specialized for transporting coma patients, to pick  up Russian opposition figure Alexey Navalny to transfer him to Germany  for treatment.      
_
_The NGO said the plane  will fly to Russia late on Thursday. The activists noted the transfer  was requested by Navalny’s fellow opposition figure, Pyotr Verzilov,  best known as the co-founder of the punk band Pussy Riot.
_
_“For  humanitarian reasons, at Pussy Riots Pyotr Verzilov's request, we will  send at midnight an air ambulance with medical equipment and specialists  with which Navalny can be brought to Germany,” the foundation said, adding that Berlin's Charite hospital was ready to take him in.
_
_It was not immediately clear whether this transfer will be actually  allowed by Russian health authorities, given the seriousness of  Navalny’s condition._
_
Navalny lost consciousness earlier in the day  when he was on board a plane. The aircraft had to make an emergency  
stop in the Siberian city of Omsk, where the opposition activist is  currently in a coma at a hospital. The doctors treating him said they’ve  managed to stabilize Navalny’s condition and he was getting the  necessary treatment in an intensive care unit.
_
_It remains unclear  what exactly happened to the activist and anti-corruption blogger. While  his supporters were quick to claim he might have been poisoned and that  he had drunk nothing but tea before the flight, his critics suggested  his condition might have been a result of abusing hard alcohol and  throwing some illicit substances into the mix. Still, no actual evidence  to corroborate either of these versions has emerged so far."_

https://www.rt.com/russia/498590-nav...bulance-plane/

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## panama hat

> No country , no society , takes WW2 more seriously than Russia.


Care to place a wager on which country takes it most seriously and not just for propaganda purposes?




> No country suffered more because of the nazis than Russia.


How did you quantify this?




> Putins brother was killed by the nazis in Leningrad.


Putin was born in 1952 . . . how old was Putin's brother as he must have been at least ten years older to have died in Stalingrad as an infant.  Also, how do you know he was killed by Nazis?

The picture is accurate







> German NGO sends in ambulance plane to pick up 'poisoned' Kremlin critic Navalny at Pussy Riot co-founder's request


The 'Pussy Riot' addition is quaint as it minimises the man's staus and importance



> Navalny’s fellow opposition figure, Pyotr Verzilov


As of three hours ago the plane hadn't left yet.

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## Saint Willy

> The 'Pussy Riot' addition is quaint as it minimises the man's staus and importance


I wondered about that too, 

I also didn't release that Pussy Riot was started by an opposition leader in politics.

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## PlanK



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## Klondyke

^The Navalny's life is for Putin so important like a life of a fly around his nose. However, his death would be more important for the Navalny's benefactors and supporters (as it had the Nemtsov' murder). 

Then, for the next 10-20 years they could have something always to mention about the "polonium tea", like our 'arry always has...

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## sabang

So he's in ICU in Siberia. Just a thought- if Vlad really wanted him dead, wouldn't he be dead by now ::chitown:: ? 

Unlike so many here, the Woke Guards of the neo-Cultural revolution, I would prefer to wait a bit before I jump to conclusions- although it is a bit rich to call them conclusions when for so many of you they are preordained, and preconditioned.

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## panama hat

> 


 :rofl: 






> I wondered about that too,


It's cheap, apologist clap-trap supported by and directed at halfwits like Klondyke who love the place and the politics so much that they ran away to live in Thailand

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## harrybarracuda

> So he's in ICU in Siberia. Just a thought- if Vlad really wanted him dead, wouldn't he be dead by now?


If he survives, Vlad might be revising his hiring policy. You know, "let's discuss it over a cup of MY tea" sort of thing.

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## harrybarracuda

> You are supporting war with Russia.

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## harrybarracuda

> Well see if this is like Salisbury. Where the FSB special agents flew side by side , direct to Britain on an Aeroflot flight.


I doubt we will. That would require Putin ordering a proper investigation, you numbskull.

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## harrybarracuda

I wonder if he is glowing?

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## Takeovers

Germany has sent an ambulance plane and a team of doctors. Let's see if they let him go.

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## harrybarracuda

> Germany has sent an ambulance plane and a team of doctors. Let's see if they let him go.


They've already said they won't. It's "too dangerous" apparently.

Yeah, dangerous to the bloodythirsty dictator most likely.

Added: They have already started spreading interweb nonsense that he is a drug-addled alcoholic and that's what did it.

No surprise there.

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## Klondyke

> If he survives,


He will need to exchange his team around - and live with the fear again that the next staff will succeed ..

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## Klondyke

> They've already said they won't


No, they've already said they will...

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## misskit

*Doctors Bar Navalny’s Evacuation to Germany as Confusion Surrounds Presence of Poison in System*



A day after Alexei Navalny was hospitalized in an apparent poisoning attempt, doctors are barring his evacuation to Germany citing his unstable condition, while confusion surrounds the presence of poison in the prominent Russian opposition leader’s system.


Navalny, 44, lost consciousness an hour into a flight from the Siberian city of Tomsk to Moscow on Thursday. After his plane made an emergency landing in the Siberian city of Omsk, he was transported to a hospital, where the deputy doctor told journalists the hospital was “working on saving his life.” He said that the opposition leader was connected to a ventilator and in critical condition. 


Navalny’s team has pushed for the Kremlin critic to be transferred to a leading European toxicology center, citing a lack of necessary equipment at the regional hospital and a worry that Russian doctors will be pressured by the authorities to withhold details of the cause of his illness. 


An air ambulance departed from Germany early Friday morning to collect Navalny, but the regional hospital’s head doctor said his condition was unstable and he could not be transferred, according to the Kremlin critic’s spokeswoman Kira Yarmysh. 


The head of Navalny’s Anti-Corruption Foundation Ivan Zhdanov, who was also at the scene, told journalists that police reported that a “poison” was found in Navalny’s system that is “dangerous to those around him,” but that law enforcement wouldn't name the substance. 


Later on Friday morning, the hospital's deputy chief doctor contradicted this statement, saying that "no trace" of poison had been found in Navalny's system during tests so far.


“Until now doctors had said that they are ready to authorize transportation. That is why we organized it in the shortest possible time,” Yarmysh wrote on Twitter. “Now, at the last moment, doctors are not giving permission. This decision, of course, was not made by them but by the Kremlin.”



MORE Doctors Bar Navalny’s Evacuation to Germany as Confusion Surrounds Presence of Poison in System - The Moscow Times

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## Backspin

^ Turns out there was no poison at all. And it was just a metabolic condition that he has

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## misskit

^ Link?

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## harrybarracuda

> ^ Link?


www.hoohoowillbealonginaminutewithasputniklinkorso  meshite.com

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## misskit

*Alexie Navalny allowed to fly to Germany, say Russian doctors
*

Doctors at the Siberian hospital where opposition politician Alexei Navalny lies in a coma after suspected poisoning have allowed his family to transport him to a top German medical facility, the hospital's deputy chief doctor has said.


"We... took the decision that we do not oppose his transfer to another hospital, the one that his relatives indicate to us," Anatoly Kalinichenko, deputy chief doctor at Omsk hospital, told journalists late on Friday.


The flight from the Siberian city of Omsk is scheduled for Saturday morning, Russia's RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing airport officials.

Navalny, 44, a fierce critic of President Vladimir Putin and his lieutenants, is in a serious condition after drinking tea on a plane on Thursday that his allies believe was laced with poison.


A plane with German specialists and equipment necessary to transfer Navalny for treatment in Berlin landed at Omsk airport on Friday morning.


German doctors who examined him said Navalny was fit to be flown abroad for medical treatment.


Doctors at the Siberian hospital earlier said he had been diagnosed with a metabolic disease caused by low blood sugar and he was not in a condition to be transported.


Wife appeals to Putin
Navalny's allies had criticised Kremlin for not allowing his medical evacuation to Germany, saying he faces mortal danger and the Siberian hospital treating him was under-equipped.


Navalny's wife Yulia Navalnaya told reporters that hospital staff and men she suspected were law enforcement agents didn't let her speak to the German specialists, who she said were brought into the facility in secrecy, through a back door.


"I was forcibly kicked out in a rude manner," Yulia Navalnaya said, her voice shaking. "This is an appalling situation. They are not letting us take Alexei. We believe that clearly something is being hidden from us."


She submitted a written request for a transfer on Friday to Putin. "I officially apply to you with a demand for permission to take Alexei Navalny to Germany," she posted on Navalny's Twitter account.

Leonid Volkov, Navalny's chief of staff, said his family had "no diagnosis, no analysis" and no access to reliable data about his condition, accusing the Russian authorities of trying to conduct a "cover-up operation".


Later on Friday, the European Court of Human Rights said it was considering a request from Navalny's allies to urge the Russian government to let the politician be transferred.

Alexie Navalny allowed to fly to Germany, say Russian doctors |  News | Al Jazeera

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## harrybarracuda

Navalny's wife is very probably correct.




> Alexei Navalny is in a coma after a suspected poisoningRussian health officials will allow Navalny to be airlifted to BerlinNavalny's wife believes that doctors at the Siberian hospital were deliberately delaying his transfer so that the chemical substance has time to disappear from her husband's metabolism


Alexei Navalny live updates: Russian doctors allow Navalny′s transfer to Germany | News | DW | 21.08.2020

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## Troy

> It's a far cry from pinky and perky's incessant whataboutism.


I nicknamed my first girlfriend's breasts pinky and perky...lovely pair they were...

I'll find my own way out...

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## Hugh Cow

If he has been poisoned, Ohklondoh will no doubt inform TD how it was perpetrated by western powers (no names here) to damage that prince of peace and KGB icon of human rights, poor Vlad.

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## panama hat

> If he has been poisoned, Ohklondoh will no doubt inform TD how it was perpetrated by western powers (no names here) to damage that prince of peace and KGB icon of human rights, poor Vlad.


 . . . and the segue to asbestos in building and Angola and how China is helping the natives rebuild their lives after Portuguese colonial oppression

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## OhOh

> If he has been poisoned


If the alleged poisoning has taken place in Russia, I would suspect the Russian authorities would be called in, if not already investigating, the incident.

Presuming of course poisoning a fellow citizen, as opposed by a foreigner, is an illegal offence, in Russia.

It may not be though.  :Smile:

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## misskit

*Comatose Russian dissident stable upon arrival in Germany
*

BERLIN (AP) — Russian dissident Alexei Navalny, who is in a coma after a suspected poisoning, arrived in Berlin on a special flight Saturday for treatment by specialists at the German capital’s main hospital.


“Navalny is in Berlin,” Jaka Bizilj, of the German organization Cinema For Peace, which organized the flight, told The Associated Press. “He survived the flight and he’s stable.”


After touching down shortly before 9 a.m. at a special area of the capital’s Tegel airport used for government and military flights, Navalny was taken by ambulance to the downtown campus of Berlin’s Charite hospital.


The hospital later issued a statement saying extensive tests were being carried out on Navalny, and doctors would not comment on his illness or treatment until those were completed.


Navalny, a politician and corruption investigator who is one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s fiercest critics, was admitted to an intensive care unit in the Siberian city of Omsk on Thursday. His supporters believe that tea he drank was laced with poison — and that the Kremlin is behind both his illness and the delay in transferring him to a top German hospital.

When German specialists arrived aboard a plane equipped with advanced medical equipment Friday morning at his family’s behest, Navalny’s physicians in Omsk initially said he was too unstable to move.


Navalny’s supporters denounced that as a ploy by authorities to stall until any poison in his system would no longer be traceable. The Omsk medical team relented only after a charity that had organized the medevac plane revealed that the German doctors examined the politician and said he was fit to be transported.


Deputy chief doctor of the Omsk hospital Anatoly Kalinichenko then told reporters that Navalny’s condition had stabilized and that physicians “didn’t mind” transferring the politician, given that his relatives were willing “to take on the risks.”


The Kremlin denied that resistance to the transfer was political, with spokesman Dmitry Peskov saying that it was purely a medical decision. However, the reversal came as international pressure on Russia’s leadership mounted.


It would not be the first time a prominent, outspoken Russian was targeted in such a way — or the first time the Kremlin was accused of being behind it.


On Thursday, leaders of France and Germany said the two countries were ready to offer Navalny and his family any and all assistance and insisted on an investigation into what happened.

The most prominent member of Russia’s opposition, Navalny campaigned to challenge Putin in the 2018 presidential election but was barred from running. Since then, he has been promoting opposition candidates in regional elections, challenging members of the ruling party, United Russia.


His Foundation for Fighting Corruption has been exposing graft among government officials, including some at the highest level. But he had to shut the foundation last month after a financially devastating lawsuit from a businessman with close ties to the Kremlin.


Navalny fell ill on a flight back to Moscow from Siberia on Thursday and was taken to the hospital after the plane made an emergency landing. His team made arrangements to transfer him to Charité, a clinic in Berlin that has a history of treating famous foreign leaders and dissidents.


Dr. Yaroslav Ashikhmin, Navalny’s physician in Moscow, told The Associated Press that being on a plane with specialized equipment, including a ventilator and a machine that can do the work of the heart and lungs, “can be even safer than staying in a hospital in Omsk.”


Navalny’s spokesperson, Kira Yarmysh posted pictures of what she said was a bathroom inside the hospital that showed squalid conditions, including walls with paint peeling off, rusting pipes, and a dirty floor and walls.


While his supporters and family members continue to insist that Navalny was poisoned, doctors in Omsk denied that and put forward another theory.


The hospital’s chief doctor, Alexander Murakhovsky, said in a video published by Omsk news outlet NGS55 that a metabolic disorder was the most likely diagnosis and that a drop in blood sugar may have caused Navalny to lose consciousness.


Another doctor with ties to the politician, Dr. Anastasia Vasilyeva, said that diagnosing Navalny with a “metabolic disorder” says nothing about what may have caused it — and it could have been the result of a poisoning.


Ashikhmin, who has been Navalny’s doctor since 2013, said the politician has always been in good health, regularly went for medical checkups and didn’t have any underlying illnesses that could have triggered his condition.


Western toxicology experts expressed doubts that a poisoning could have been ruled out so quickly.


“It takes a while to rule things out. And particularly if something is highly toxic — it will be there in very low concentrations, and many screening tests would just not pick that substance up,” said Alastair Hay, an emeritus professor and toxicology expert from the school of medicine at the University of Leeds.


Like many other opposition politicians in Russia, Navalny has been frequently detained by law enforcement and harassed by pro-Kremlin groups. In 2017, he was attacked by several men who threw antiseptic in his face, damaging an eye.


Last year, Navalny was rushed to a hospital from jail where he was serving a sentence on charges of violating protest regulations. His team also suspected poisoning then. Doctors said he had a severe allergic reaction and sent him back to detention the following day.

Comatose Russian dissident stable upon arrival in Germany

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## OhOh

*Moscow protest leader Navalny transferred from Siberian hospital, airlifted to Germany (VIDEOS)* 

22 Aug, 2020 00:52   / Updated 8 hours ago

Moscow protest leader Navalny transferred from Siberian hospital, airlifted to Germany (VIDEOS) — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union*

Moscow protest leader Navalny admitted to hospital in Berlin after being airlifted from Siberia     * 

22 Aug, 2020 07:25   / Updated 3 hours ago

Moscow protest leader Navalny admitted to hospital in Berlin after being airlifted from Siberia — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union




> Comatose Russian dissident stable upon arrival in Germany


*Comatose Russian dissident stable upon arrival in Germany*

By DAVID RISINGan hour ago

Comatose Russian dissident stable upon arrival in Germany

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## Klondyke

Wondering whether such huge concern of "international community" and a private jet be promptly ready to service to another opponent of a superpower when ill sick in prison... even when so many world personalities ask for that  (whataboutism? or a double standard?)

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## Chico

Sabang, please leave the indoctrinated to a life of ignorance.





> if Vlad really wanted him dead, wouldn't he be dead by now

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## headhunter

is he still in a coma?as the daughter of a russian agent poisoned in the uk,yulia skipal was in a coma for three weeks.maybe it was another warning,he's had a few.

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## OhOh

> daughter of a russian agent poisoned in the uk,yulia skipal was in a coma for three weeks


Does MI6 have agents/Russian embassy staff frequenting airport toilets and deadly drugs stockpiled at every Russian provincial airport?




> maybe it was another warning


The Russians are experts at getting the dosage correct and delivering the required result. As usual.

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## panama hat

> Does MI6 have agents/Russian embassy staff frequenting airport toilets and deadly drugs stockpiled at every Russian provincial airport?


One thing has nothing to do with the other





> The Russians are experts at getting the dosage correct and delivering the required result. As usual.


Except they're not - Russia is the western world's China.  Primitive and thuggish

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## harrybarracuda

> Except they're not - Russia is the western world's China.  Primitive and thuggish


Trying to keep the dose small enough to metabolise and still kill him, without really knowing how much of it he would drink. Not a precise science.

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## HermantheGerman

> Moscow protest leader Navalny transferred from Siberian hospital, airlifted to Germany (VIDEOS) — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union*
> 
> *Moscow protest leader Navalny admitted to hospital in Berlin after being airlifted from Siberia — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union
> 
> 
> Comatose Russian dissident stable upon arrival in Germany


You think you can figure out what's wrong with your 2x RT Headlines (links) compared with the one fro AP ?
If yes, why do you spread this communist bullshit?
If no, you are a .....ahhh never mind it's useless.

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## OhOh

^Care to enlighten the TD viewers what you are unhappy with, from the RT articles I posted?

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## Klondyke

How he can enlighten when every MSM is broadcasting just the same headlines and the same content. And same footage without seeing something else than an ambulance, etc.  
Keeping everything so transparent as it was with Skripals, Litvinenko, always just one picture only, in spite of the huge journo missions...

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## panama hat

> If no, you are a .....ahhh never mind it's useless.


You're referring to OhOh or Klondyke?  Same same really . . .

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## Chico

> Skripals


Klondyke as you should know if you question the stories, especially the Skripals, you're either stupid or not have a clue,still don't get how they never died considering they had  direct contact with Novichok, though one person died of the nerve agent. a woman Dawn Sturgess, beggars belief how some people believe everything they are told.

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## panama hat

> still don't get how they never died





> though one person died


It's so refreshing to have chico share his wisdom with us

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## Klondyke

*‘Merkel’s guest,’ army ambulances & ‘deliberate’ disinformation at airport: new details of Navalny’s arrival in Germany revealed
23 Aug, 2020 


*
A convoy of vehicles carrying Alexey Navalny leaves Tegel airport to take him to a hospital in Berlin, Germany August 22, 2020. © Reuters/Fabrizio Bensch

Prominent Russian anti-corruption campaigner Alexey Navalny was officially made “the guest of the chancellor” when he was airlifted to Berlin for medical treatment and transported in a military ambulance truck.

The motorcade carrying Navalny, whom Bild newspaper described as “the patient the world is watching,” included several emergency vehicles, police buses and patrol cars.

The activist, who remained in a medically induced coma during the journey, was transported to Berlin’s renowned Charite hospital inside a Bundeswehr intensive care ambulance truck. The vehicle had military markings and a special license plate showing a code starting with the letter Y, which is used exclusively by the German military.

Navalny was airlifted from the Siberian city of Omsk on Saturday morning. Online flight-tracking service FlightRadar showed that the private jet, chartered by Berlin-based NGO Cinema for Peace, was about to land in Berlin’s Schonefeld Airport. However, the plane actually landed in the capital’s Tegel Airport, on a strip reserved for military aircraft. According to Bild, that was a “deliberate” misinformation tactic by authorities.

A German government spokesperson stated that Navalny’s evacuation was a private initiative. At the same time, ZDF reported that Navalny was assigned “guest of the chancellor” status in official German documents. The Interior Ministry confirmed to the TV channel that this was done to “ensure the best possible police protection.”

German media previously reported that Chancellor Angela Merkel’s office and the Foreign Ministry were “working behind the scenes” to help arrange Navalny’s flight. The activist’s longtime close associate Leonid Volkov thanked Merkel and the German government for “international support and help in solving a huge number of bureaucracy issues and security.”

Navalny suddenly felt unwell and lost consciousness shortly after boarding a plane during his trip to Siberia on Thursday. The aircraft made an emergency landing in Omsk, where Navalny was hospitalized. His team and family alleged that he had been poisoned by authorities, but the doctors treating him in Russia found no traces of toxic substances in his system.

Navalny’s associates pushed for his urgent transportation to Germany, arguing that he could not be adequately treated in Omsk. Local doctors initially insisted that the activist’s condition was not stable enough for transportation, but they later allowed for him to be moved to Berlin.

‘Merkel’s guest,’ army ambulances & ‘deliberate’ disinformation at airport: new details of Navalny’s arrival in Germany revealed — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union

----------


## thailazer

Even if Navalny lives, Putin has still gotten his message across..."Cross me and you will be dead, or in a lot of pain.  Ready to take the chance?"

----------


## misskit

^ Not that he hasn’t tried the message before.

6 Prominent Russians Who Suffered Poisoning Attacks - The Moscow Times

----------


## panama hat

> Even if Navalny lives, Putin has still gotten his message across..."Cross me and you will be dead, or in a lot of pain. Ready to take the chance?"


Merkel and Steinmeier are talking about stability and assistance while still saying it could be silencing the opposition

Alexej Nawalny in Berliner Charite - ZDFheute






> Even if Navalny lives, Putin has still gotten his message across..."Cross me and you will be dead, or in a lot of pain. Ready to take the chance?"





> ^ Not that he hasn’t tried the message before.


Yup - many times.  The guy's a thug. A murderous thug.

----------


## OhOh

> The guy's a thug. A murderous thug.


Judged by THE LORDS body count, during his terms in office, he's a not even in the top 10.

----------


## panama hat

> Judged by THE LORDS body count, during his terms in office, he's a not even in the top 10.


Ah, so he's not that bad, eh . . . you have wonderful moral guidelines.  I guess in China Putin s seen as weak.

Who's body count?  Try not to be too obtuse

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Judged by THE LORDS body count, during his terms in office, he's a not even in the top 10.


His lack of a meaningful genocide makes him a good guy in Hoohoo's eyes.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ^Care to enlighten what you are unhappy with, from the RT articles I posted?


Useless as I said.

----------


## misskit

*Alexei Navalny 'likely poisoned,' German government says
*

A German government spokesman said on Monday that it was likely that Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny was poisoned.


"The suspicion is... that somebody poisoned Mr Navalny — that somebody seriously poisoned Mr Navalny — which, unfortunately, there are some examples of in recent Russian history, so the world takes this suspicion very seriously," Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert told reporters.

"Because there is a certain probability of a poison attack, protection is necessary," he added.

Navalny, a fierce critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin, has been in a coma for several days. The 44-year-old was transported to Berlin on Saturday via a German-operated flight to receive treatment at the city's Charite hospital. Navalny's allies have accused Russian doctors of delaying his evacuation to Germany.


Ongoing tests

Charite spokeswoman Manuela Zingl said Navalny would be undergoing extensive diagnostic tests and that doctors wouldn't comment on his illness or treatment until they were able to evaluate the results.

Dirk Wiese, the German government's coordinator for Eastern European affairs, told public broadcaster ZDF that police posted outside the hospital are there as a precaution, and that the cause of his illness has not yet been determined.

"The circumstances of what led to Alexei Navalny's critical condition haven't yet been clarified," he said. "We expect full transparent and also cooperative clarification, especially from the Russian authorities. And before it is known how this happened, appropriate security precautions are necessary.''


Wiese said that Navalny's condition was "currently critical, but stable.''


"He is now receiving the best possible treatment,'' he added. Charite is expected to release an update later in the day. 


Russian doctors find 'no trace'

Doctors at the Siberian hospital that treated Navalny said, however, that they had found no traces of poison in his system. 

"If we had found some kind of poison that was somehow confirmed then it would have been a lot easier for us," said Anatoly Kalinichenko, a senior doctor at the hospital. "It would have been a clear diagnosis, a clear condition and a well-known course of treatment." 

They also denied that they had received any outside pressure regarding his treatment. 

"We saved his life with great effort and work. There was no outside influence on the care for the patient and there couldn't have been," the head doctor at the hospital in the Siberian city of Omsk, Alexander Murakhovsky, said at a news conference. 

He was unconscious without any visible reasons for his condition, suggesting dozens of possible diagnoses, said Kalinichenko, according to state media. 

The doctors did not say specifically what they had done to save his life or what they had treated him for, but last week, they said they diagnosed him with metabolic disease possibly brought on by low blood sugar. 

The activist is one of Putin's most vocal domestic critics and has organized several protests against Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom he accuses of supporting widespread corruption. 

Alexei Navalny ′likely poisoned,′ German government says | News | DW | 24.08.2020

----------


## harrybarracuda

Yes, you wouldn't put it past Putin to send some more thugs to finish the job off.

----------


## OhOh

> Alexei Navalny 'likely poisoned,' German government says


Level 5 on 'arrys scale.




> "The suspicion is


Shall we ever read about the evidence?

----------


## Backspin

> You think you can figure out what's wrong with your 2x RT Headlines (links) compared with the one fro AP ?
> If yes, why do you spread this communist bullshit?
> If no, you are a .....ahhh never mind it's useless.


You do realize that you just called post Soviet Russia Communist ? That disqualifies you from having any credibility in the geopolitical realm.

----------


## Backspin

> Merkel and Steinmeier are talking about stability and assistance while still saying it could be silencing the opposition
> 
> Alexej Nawalny in Berliner Charite - ZDFheute
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup - many times.  The guy's a thug. A murderous thug.


You are aware that Alex Navalney is a Russian chauvinist who's to the right of Putin right ?  He wants to ban immigration from central Asia , he wants US style gun rights and he supports Putins Crimea policy.

Guess what. No matter how nice of a guy becomes the leader of Russia , Russia and the USA will never be friends. They are rivals. 

What is it about you and nice guys anyway ? Leaders are supposed to lead. Not be nice guys. What should Putin do ? Go help the sick in Bangalodesh ?

----------


## helge

> You do realize that you just called post Soviet Russia Communist ? That disqualifies you from having any credibility in the geopolitical realm.


There is a scratch in the Herman Hermit record, dated a few generations back.

Germans are good at repeating, what they are taught.

----------


## panama hat

> Shall we ever read about the evidence?


Yea . . . it's called poison, or do you think he got ill just by drinking water?




> That disqualifies you from having any credibility in the geopolitical realm.


PLease, socal, stick to writing about hookers






> You are aware that Alex Navalney is a Russian chauvinist who's to the right of Putin right ?


Politics are clearly not in play here, in terms of of being judgmental in aiding those in need




> What is it about you and nice guys anyway ? Leaders are supposed to lead. Not be nice guys. What should Putin do ? Go help the sick in Bangalodesh ?


You do realise that a leader can be both - help the sick in Bangladesh?  Sure, why not.

----------


## Latindancer

> Ah, so he's not that bad, eh . . . you have wonderful moral guidelines.


We know what yours are though, don't we ? Trolling  various people on this forum in the nastiest possible way...

----------


## sabang

Whilst the western Press likes to big-up Russian political dissidents, Navalny is no threat to Putin. Not even close.
But lets assume he was enough of a thorn in the side for Putin to order him dead. If so- how would he have ever left Siberia, except in a box?
Lower level flunkies perhaps? GRU/ KGB types? Possible, can't rule it out. Russia is not as monolthic or centralised as y'all seem to assume.
Can't rule out 'other enemies' either. Navalny ain't exactly pure as the driven snow.
Can't rule out that it wasn't a poisoning at all either, yet.


But I pour cold water on the notion that this was/is a Vlad job. Navalny wouldn't be in Germany, recovering. Capiche?

----------


## panama hat

> We know what yours are though, don't we ?


Do we ? <sic>. Says a serial wife abuser who feels the need to jump threads to accuse others of trolling.  You're quite the embarrassment.

It's a shame that you feel the need to follow me around to troll as you have some intelligent comments on world affairs, but your green little man comes crawling out of your council flat to cry.

----------


## panama hat

> If so- how would he have ever left Siberia, except in a box?


You repeat this odd line constantly . . . you are aware of how many Russians have been poisoned and yet didn't die?  Maybe Russia/Putin is simply too much of a thug - a bullet in the head is easy - poison requires brains.  It seems Russians are shit at the subtleties. 

Again, how many Russians have been poisoned or have had assassination attempts against them and survived . . .

----------


## Backspin

> Yea . . . it's called poison, or do you think he got ill just by drinking water?
> 
> 
> PLease, socal, stick to writing about hookers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Politics are clearly not in play here, in terms of of being judgmental in aiding those in need
> ...





> Politics are clearly not in play here, in terms of of being judgmental in aiding those in need


 :rofl: 

This is pure statecraft. The guy sends his daughters to expensive private schools in the west. *

Navalny went to the  elite American East Coast Yale University, also home to the Bush family,  where he was a "Yale World Fellow."* 

*The charismatic Navalny however is also or has been on the  payroll of Washington's  National Endowment for  Democracy (NED*). According to a posting on Navalny's own blog, LiveJournal, he was supported in 2007-2008 by the NED

----------


## panama hat

> This is pure statecraft. The guy sends his daughters to expensive private schools in the west.


And why shouldn't he?  Why do you find that humorous?  He should send his kids to Belarus for schooling?  

He's also in Germany for treatment . . . do you find that funny as well?  He should have been sent to Kazakhstan?

----------


## Backspin

> And why shouldn't he?  Why do you find that humorous?  He should send his kids to Belarus for schooling?  
> 
> He's also in Germany for treatment . . . do you find that funny as well?  He should have been sent to Kazakhstan?


I am laughing because you think he's a man in need. The guy is RICH. And doesn't have a real job. He's also free to send his kids abroad . Free to get medical help in Germany.  

This is Putins alleged nemesis. And even he can do what he wants. But man.. Is Russia unfree

----------


## panama hat

> I am laughing because you think he's a man in need.


Where did I say that, or even imply that?  Are you going to lie outright now?

----------


## Backspin

> Where did I say that, or even imply that?  Are you going to lie outright now?


You said (under a quote from be about Navalny)




> Politics are clearly not in play here, in terms of of being judgmental in aiding those in need

----------


## panama hat

Good grief, socal . . . context.  Context.  FFS

----------


## OhOh

*German clinical investigation suggests Moscow protest leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned – hospital statement*

24 Aug, 2020 17:42   / Updated 12 hours ago

_"__Anti-corruption campaigner Alexey Navalny was poisoned,  according to doctors at Charite clinic in Berlin. Tests have shown that  the protest leader was found with a cholinesterase inhibitor inside his  system.      
__While the exact substance  remains unknown, the presence of a cholinesterase inhibitor means  long-term effects are possible, particularly to the nervous system,  according to a statement from the hospital."

German clinical investigation suggests Moscow protest leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned – hospital statement — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union
_
Link to Hospital report:

_Statement by Charite: Clinical findings indicate Alexei Navalny was poisoned: Charite – Universitatsmedizin Berlin
_
Link to hospital report on twatter:

_https://twitter.com/ChariteBerlin/st...rc=twsrc%5Etfw_

The chemical,  cholinesterase inhibitor, has allegedly been identified in the man's blood.

Some possibilities:

1. Origin - Russian Government insertion within Russia

2. Origin - Foreign Government insertion within Russia

3. Origin - Russian Hospital insertion within Russia

4. Origin - Airplane transport flight to Germany insertion within international airspace

5. Origin - German government insertion within Germany

6. Origin - Foreign government insertion within Germany

7. Origin - German Hospital insertion within Germany

8. Origin - German testing labs within Germany.

All of whom have an incentive and are open to manipulation by "those who must be obeyed".

Our own TD CIS team may suggest further insertion suspects or places. Or even dismiss any of the 8 possibilities as "ridiculous".

----------


## panama hat

> German clinical investigation suggests Moscow protest leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned – hospital statement





> Some possibilities:
> 
> 1. Origin - Russian Government insertion within Russia





> 3. Origin - Russian Hospital insertion within Russia


And that's about it, unless you're an apologist for a murderous regime . . . like OhOh and Klondyke

----------


## harrybarracuda

> And that's about it, unless you're an apologist for a murderous regime . . . like OhOh and Klondyke


I think backspin is trying to muscle in on their turf.

----------


## OhOh

> unless you're an apologist for a murderous regime


The AA regime ('arry's apparatchik) have spoken. 

Beware of being added to the list, otherwise one may be selected for "attention" by non specified international baddies (the strong arm of the state) .

----------


## panama hat

> I think backspin is trying to muscle in on their turf.


What a Triumvirate they would make

----------


## harrybarracuda

> one may be selected for "attention"


One is selected for attention because of one's proclivity for posting horseshit, e.g. trying to pass off the inventions of the Russian state propaganda apparatus as the musings of a fictitious writer.

----------


## Latindancer

*A brief history of poisoning in modern Russia*

SBS Language | A brief history of poisoning in modern Russia

----------


## Chico

> unless you're an apologist for a murderous regime


Gotta laugh at this numb skull, the man with the square head needs to have a look around and see who starts all the wars in the last century and devastates countries but Yep its all Russia and China :smiley laughing:

----------


## Klondyke

> A brief history of poisoning in modern Russia


Actually, it is not so extensive (yet) as a brief history of assassination in modern USA...

----------


## OhOh

Oh dear, somebody wants to become an AA member.




> A brief history of poisoning in modern Russia


From a regime funded mouthpiece.

_"In 1975 the Australian Government established radio stations 2EA in  Sydney and 3EA in Melbourne to inform Australians from non-English  speaking backgrounds about Medibank, the new national health care  scheme."

"In the following year the Federal Government formed the Consultative  Committee on Ethnic Broadcasting. On the recommendation of this and  subsequent committees, the Broadcasting and Television Act 1942 was  amended to form the Special Broadcasting Service. This legislation came  into force on 1 January 1978."

Our History | SBS Corporate
_
SBS Charter | SBS Corporate

A well informed or a regime mouthpiece?

----------


## harrybarracuda

If they had video of Vlad poisoning people, our resident whackjobs would still not believe it.

They are beyond help.

----------


## sabang

> You repeat this odd line constantly . . . you are aware of how many Russians have been poisoned and yet didn't die?


I am not aware of how many Russians have been poisoned and didn't die actually- do you have a Link, or reference? The Salisbury poisonings were almost certainly not Vlad's doing. Are you aware that every poisoning, or assassination attempt in Russia, or involving a Russian person, is not necessarily on direct orders from one Vladimir Putin? If you aren't, I find that quite odd.
Working on the presumption that this was an assassination attempt ordered by Putin, as you seemingly assume, then it is very odd that-
1- after his flight was diverted to a hospital facility in Siberia, the intended victim was cared for and stabilised, not offed promptly. 
2- That a German 'relief mission' (non-governmental) was allowed to land in Russia, unhindered
3- That, after the victim was stabilised, the relief mission was permitted to repatriate him to Germany, unhindered

I presume that you have heard of habeus corpus and all that. Why would the President of Russia allow this to happen, if he was the perpetrator of the plot? You would ensure the victim died if it was so important to you, and have destroyed the corpse, or at least kept it away from meddling foreigners and their intrusive autopsies and toxicology tests. I don't recall the Saudi's helpfully producing the dismembered corpse of the journalist they killed in the Saudi embassy in Ankara, for example. 





> a bullet in the head is easy - poison requires brains.


Perhaps you need to decide what sort of Thug you think Vlad really is. You seem to be implying now he is a brainless and incompetent Thug (and I really don't think so), whereas your previous posts infer that he is a master criminal Thug. Which is it?
There is nothing odd about my logical premise. If Vlad ordered him dead, why was he allowed out of Russia freely for treatment &/or protection in Germany- unhindered? Now that would be odd.

----------


## panama hat

> I presume that you have heard of habeus corpus and all that.


Yes, and that has nothing at all to do with it.  A habeas corpus. 




> Perhaps you need to decide what sort of Thug you think Vlad really is


Decided - a thug, as mentioned previously




> I don't recall the Saudi's helpfully producing the dismembered corpse of the journalist they killed in the Saudi embassy in Ankara, for example.


The fact that you find Saudis marginally less reprehensible or more thuggish than Vlad also speaks volumes

----------


## Hugh Cow

> *German clinical investigation suggests Moscow protest leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned – hospital statement*
> 
> 24 Aug, 2020 17:42   / Updated 12 hours ago
> 
> _"__Anti-corruption campaigner Alexey Navalny was poisoned,  according to doctors at Charite clinic in Berlin. Tests have shown that  the protest leader was found with a cholinesterase inhibitor inside his  system.      
> __While the exact substance  remains unknown, the presence of a cholinesterase inhibitor means  long-term effects are possible, particularly to the nervous system,  according to a statement from the hospital."
> 
> German clinical investigation suggests Moscow protest leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned – hospital statement — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union
> _
> ...


You missed some.  Possibly yourself.
 Was Navalny about to publish a sextape of a threesome with you Vlad and Xi?

----------


## panama hat

> You missed some. Possibly yourself.
> Was Navalny about to publish a sextape of a threesome with you Vlad and Xi?


You must add 'in Germany' to add to the OhOh's Angst

----------


## Klondyke

> Judged by THE LORDS body count, during his terms in office, he's a not even in the top 10.





> Who's body count?


"Who's body count?" Do you want that OhOh be banned here for life? 

And you don't know? Normally, you know (almost) everything (however, a little bit less than your Master)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I am not aware of how many Russians have been poisoned and didn't die actually- do you have a Link, or reference? The Salisbury poisonings were almost certainly not Vlad's doing. Are you aware that every poisoning, or assassination attempt in Russia, or involving a Russian person, is not necessarily on direct orders from one Vladimir Putin? If you aren't, I find that quite odd.


Sure. It's just a complete coincidence to a man that they are either political opponents or defectors.

You fucking muppet.

 :rofl: 




> Perhaps you need to decide what sort of Thug you think Vlad really is.


A murderous, thieving one.

----------


## OhOh

> Do you want that OhOh be banned here for life?


Hold on there comrade. 

Does the TD Central Committee regard this move as a step forward, to enlightenment, prosperity and contented clickers or a example of the embedded authoritarian AA? 

A mod "supervised"  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  poll is the only way. There has been years of canvassing.

I will demand a recount and all hanging tards are automatically added to my "approve this message" tally.

If I lose I will run away to Cambodia and create another generation of the indoctrinated master race.

or

Continue with venting your spleen you, impeccably informed, tolerant of all creeds and expressers of opinions, Wi-Fi warriors.

Before the ....

















After the ....



Long live the Seattle based TD Central Committee Chairman and Women, plus the 68 genders now officially recognised by the Sexual Orientation Committee Edit - 69 Is Devine.

----------


## panama hat

> Who's body count?





> Try not to be too obtuse


 . . . and even with guidance not to be too obtuse you manage to excel in being obtuse




> Do you want that OhOh be banned here for life?


For?  OhOh, nah.  You?  No loss. 






> A murderous, thieving one.


That'd be very obvious . . . mentioned several times but always worth repeating

----------


## Klondyke

> If they had video of Vlad poisoning people, our resident whackjobs would still not believe it.


...says our expert on conspiracy theories he has to fight against many - despite the famous videos...

Anyway, Vlad - with his FSB Boys - has to learn still a lot how to assassinate during a live TV broadcast...

----------


## panama hat

I wonder what Klondyke's drivel would mean in English

----------


## Saint Willy

I'd sooner wonder if clouds tasted pink on the insides during a Tuesday mass service.

----------


## Hugh Cow

I personally would not vote to ban you OhOh (for what it's worth) An alternative view is good, but your absolute refusal to see the blindingly obvious mistakes of your "boys" is why virtually no one on TD take you seriously apart from a couple of conspiracy theorists and your knob polisher. 
By all means show the other sides mistakes etc. but acknowledging the flaws on your own side of the political spectrum would give you at least some credibility with the few on TD that can look from a reasonably balanced viewpoint. Try referencing from a balanced new source, not RT or CGN. There are some out there and before you deflect, no not Fox Cnn etc.

----------


## panama hat

> I'd sooner wonder if clouds tasted pink on the insides during a Tuesday mass service.


Tuesday?  You're keen . . .  Most unusual for us is Friday evening 





> I personally would not vote to ban you OhOh


A red herring for support, but no, of course not



This:



> By all means show the other sides mistakes etc. but acknowledging the flaws on your own side of the political spectrum would give you at least some credibility


Everyone here criticises one or more aspects of their and others' negatives (in terms of country) except OhOh and Klondyke who are simply apologists and divert when confronted with facts. 
FFS, if the discussion is Putin and poisoning people, China and unfair practices then don't reply with how bad something is in other countries, almost all the time the US . . . oh, and Nazi Germany when they're being particularly fuckwitted. 

Latest and greatest example being Sweden's increased military budget to address baltic dominance by Russia . . . Klondyke's comment?  Sweden should have thought of a military budget in 1940.  
It's just amazing

----------


## OhOh

> Everyone here criticises one or more aspects of their and others' negatives (in terms of country) except OhOh and Klondyke who are simply apologists and divert when confronted with facts.


Everyone.  :rofl: 

I post information and news articles from Chines, Asian, and western sources when I feel they are relevant and feel my limited knowledge may be illustrative. 

There are many here on TD who do not, focusing on their "home" country. 

I refrain from many threads, as I am not willing to post on subjects of which I have limited knowledge. When I do they are rightly answered/destroyed with those with more knowledge.

As I have said many times. I saw many years ago, a Thai/Asian centric site full of to me interesting topics, but with little "information/news from Asian countries. Sure there were very, very useful "ex-pat" experience topics, along with Asian articles penned by non Asian outlets with a non-Asian perspective.

I try to balance that imbalance and post all in one thread. The concentration allows those who have tasted "Eurasian Topics" and have found it not to their taste. Time to some of us is not to be wasted, for others it's an enjoyable/available usage of it

If however topics on Asia are introduced under the general Thai/Asia News heading. Of which the main provider is MK, who is increasing the Asian produced topics which I have applauded. I join that thread with of course my own opinions and backup sources.




> except OhOh and .... divert when confronted with  facts.


I don't believe I have ever apologised for posting information or facts from published sources. They are what they are. I do apologise is I have posted a reply with the wrong source/quote/image.




> divert when confronted with  facts.


When the "facts" are "illustrating" one countries actions and suggesting they are extreme/unusual, a balancing "fact" to another's usage, places a comparative perspective. Some here on TD may then consider one against the other.

If that is in your and others opinion a "diversion"  and "confrontation", as opposed to an inability/desire to discus, continue the ineffective accusations.

To my mind it's a sign of weakness in your/their own arguments/facts/opinions.

----------


## Klondyke

> I post information and news articles from Chines, Asian, and western sources when I feel they are relevant and feel my limited knowledge may be illustrative.


When reading the comments under MSM in Germany (are they non-state?) reporting about the poisoning, there is not one that agrees with the generous "help" of Frau Merkel contrasting with the inadequate care for millions of German poor population.   

(BTW, it was quite apparent on the footage when the cordon of few ambulances (was the body divided in them?) with accompanied police cars and motorcycles arriving to the Charite hospital, an old grandmother trudging and pushing a wheel walker, also entering the hospital, however, without any concern of the staff around...)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Everyone. 
> 
> I post information and news articles from Chines, Asian, and western sources when I feel they are relevant and feel my limited knowledge may be illustrative.


No you don't, you post chinky and Russian government propaganda, sprinkled with fake blogs churned out by Russian troll factories pretending to be independent opinion pieces.

You muppet.

----------


## panama hat

> I post information and news articles from Chines, Asian, and western sources when I feel they are relevant and feel my limited knowledge may be illustrative.
> 
> There are many here on TD who do not, focusing on their "home" country.


Bullshit.  You post what chides the 'west' and praises China and Russia




> I am not willing to post on subjects of which I have limited knowledge.


Yet somehow it is always 'ameristan' . . . hypocrite.and speaking of which:




> there is not one that agrees with the generous "help" of Frau Merkel


Then you should read more

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I don't believe I have ever apologised for posting information or facts from published sources. They are what they are. I do apologise is I have posted a reply with the wrong source/quote/image.


You should apologise for posting Russian propaganda published under the guise of an imaginary Bangkok-based blogger.

----------


## Backspin

> No you don't, you post chinky and Russian government propaganda, sprinkled with fake blogs churned out by Russian troll factories pretending to be independent opinion pieces.
> 
> You muppet.


So we are back to this eh ? You really seem to believe that the Russian Federation has zero legitimacy. That is genocidal lunacy. You are a genocidal lunatic

----------


## panama hat

> You really seem to believe that the Russian Federation has zero legitimacy.


FFS, context . . . try it.




> lunatic


The irony is palpable

----------


## sabang

> Bullshit. You post what chides the 'west' and praises China and Russia


I make a point of reading both sides propaganda. But of course, you can just watch Fox instead. Fair and balanced.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So we are back to this eh ? You really seem to believe that the Russian Federation has zero legitimacy. That is genocidal lunacy. You are a genocidal lunatic


Yep, still doesn't know what _non sequitur_ means.

Thick twat.

----------


## Backspin

> Yep, still doesn't know what _non sequitur_ means.
> 
> Thick twat.


On the contrary. I am calling out YOUR non sequiter.

You say that all Russian media , the government , TV, bloggers , reporters ect are unacceptable. Nothing they say can be taken seriously. And that is where your argument ends.

The only way your argument  can't be a non sequiter, is if you believe that the Russian Federation has zero legitimacy.

----------


## panama hat

> The only way your argument can't be a non sequiter, is if you believe that the Russian Federation has zero legitimacy.


Eh?   Dude . . . never go full retard! 






> Nothing they say can be taken seriously. And that is where your argument ends.


Not at all. 

I believe this, among any other articles:




> Saudi Arabia sees oil revenues plunge in JuneThe value of Saudi Arabia’s oil exports plunged by 54.8 percent year over year in June, or by US$8.7 billion (32.6 billion Saudi riyals), data from Saudi Arabia’s General Authority for Statistics showed on Wednesday.
> Aug 27, 2020 09:48


Business news — RT International


Well done Pravda . . . err . . . RT


In one fell swoop your argument is destroyed

----------


## Backspin

> Eh?   Dude . . . never go full retard! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. 
> 
> I believe this, among any other articles:
> 
> ...


What the actual fuck ? This is Harry's argument. You can't map yourself onto it. Harry would not have read the RT article because it's RT. So my argument still stands

He believes Russia has zero legitimacy. Which is fine. But that's how genocides happen

----------


## panama hat

> Harry would not have read the RT article because it's RT. So my argument still stands


How do you know?  
He will read the article . . . therefore your argument is invalid





> He believes Russia has zero legitimacy. Which is fine. But that's how genocides happen


Holy Jaysus . . .

----------


## bsnub

> He believes Russia has zero legitimacy. Which is fine. But that's how genocides happen

----------


## Saint Willy

A longish article, but interesting

SBS Language | A brief history of poisoning in modern Russia

----------


## lom

> He believes Russia has zero legitimacy. Which is fine. But that's how genocides happen


Genocides? Are you suggesting that Russia will not only poison a few antagonists but a whole country?

----------


## Klondyke

> He believes Russia has zero legitimacy. Which is fine. But that's how genocides happen


Anybody who does not speak what harry likes (and his cohorts either) does have "zero legitimacy".  After all, isn't it usual in "democracy"?

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Anybody who does not speak what harry likes (and his cohorts either) does have "zero legitimacy".  After all, isn't it usual in "democracy"?


I think what you conveniently fail to understand is that we in the west know that some news outlets are biased. Fox news although a large news organisation in the USA would be ridiculed for its bias by most Americans on this forum, even though it would appear to be a big supporter of all things American. R.T. is just a more pro government propaganda news site than even Fox. At least fox has criticised the President on the odd occasion, something RT would not dream of, but please post any anti Putin news from RT to prove me wrong.

----------


## Klondyke

> At least fox has criticised the President on the odd occasion, something RT would not dream of, but please post any anti Putin news from RT to prove me wrong.


What is currently happening with the US media and the people behind them - not to speaking about the other party dealing (impeachment, Russiagate, witch hunt, etc) - is almost a state coup against their president, dividing the country that is already in pretty big turmoil - not speaking about the virus that discovered all the week points - all the results are speaking for themselves.

So, such "criticising of the President", what country would be so stupid to do it like this?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> On the contrary. I am calling out YOUR non sequiter.
> 
> You say that all Russian media , the government , TV, bloggers , reporters ect are unacceptable. Nothing they say can be taken seriously. And that is where your argument ends.
> 
> The only way your argument  can't be a non sequiter, is if you believe that the Russian Federation has zero legitimacy.


It's quite a jumbled mess in that little half empty head of yours, isn't it?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> What the actual fuck ? This is Harry's argument. You can't map yourself onto it. Harry would not have read the RT article because it's RT. So my argument still stands
> 
> He believes Russia has zero legitimacy. Which is fine. But that's how genocides happen


I'm going with the lack of oxygen.

----------


## hallelujah

> I'm going with the lack of oxygen.


I'm torn between mentally unhinged, pissed up all the time or just plain stupid.

----------


## panama hat

> I'm going with the lack of oxygen.





> I'm torn between mentally unhinged, pissed up all the time or just plain stupid.


I'd go for all four

----------


## Backspin

A circle has formed and the cracker is soggy. Well done fags ^

----------


## Klondyke

Now, according to the latest news, EU is going to impose sanctions on Russia, even if nothing is even "highly likely".  I am afraid that they will punish Russia by closing completely all the gas pipes to EU just before the winter starts.

However, some others were concerned that - similarly as in the case of Kashoggi murder - that was more than "highly likely" - the world will open much more the wonderful business with Russia...

----------


## Backspin

> Now, according to the latest news, EU is going to impose sanctions on Russia, even if nothing is even "highly likely".  I am afraid that they will punish Russia by closing completely all the gas pipes to EU just before the winter starts.
> 
> However, some others were concerned that - similarly as in the case of Kashoggi murder - that was more than "highly likely" - the world will open much more the wonderful business with Russia...


Of course. The Russian inflation rate is too low for the US/EU's liking. So they set off some shit and impose sanctions. 

But Harry and Panama Hat think that Russians are sub human beasts who think differently than humans. So they cant fathom that the Russian govt would refrain from doing pointless provocations like Salisbury or spiking Navalnys tea. Because doing so would invite sanctions that they'd rather not have. 

Just like president Assad. The only thing he had to do to win the war, was refrain from using poison gas. Because that would invite an external attack from the US. What does Assad do ? He uses poison gas. Because he is a sub human beast that doesn't think the way we do.

That's what pisses me off about Putin. He is way too patient. 

This guy could have been president. And he's still a very powerful politician.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Well at least klonyke's got someone to talk to on his level.

----------


## panama hat

They suit each other.  Next they'll chat about how the gulags were merely resorts for those naughty ne'er do wells

----------


## Backspin

> They suit each other.  Next they'll chat about how the gulags were merely resorts for those naughty ne'er do wells


The gulags were 1% of the Russian population. The US prison system is 2% of the US population. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## panama hat

> They suit each other. Next they'll chat about how the gulags were merely resorts for those naughty ne'er do wells





> The gulags were 1% of the Russian population. The US prison system is 2% of the US population.


And so the point was missed . . . again

----------


## Saint Willy

> such "criticising of the President", what country would be so stupid to do it like this?


Every bladdy democracy, you blind retard.

----------


## panama hat

> So, such "criticising of the President", what country would be so stupid to do it like this?





> Every bladdy democracy, you blind retard.


Sweet black baby Jesus I didn't see this - reading Klondyke's bullshit is too cumbersome.

Yes, which country would . . . how about just one wild guess which Klondyke uses frequently, one could say every day . . . the US. 

Fairly well every newspaper or news organisation . . . 


Ah, what's the use.  The cretin will be into his next brainfart by the time you read this

----------


## Saint Willy

> Ah, what's the use. The cretin will be into his next brainfart by the time you read this


And have avoided actually answering the question that was posed to him, also.

----------


## Saint Willy

> I think what you conveniently fail to understand is that we in the west know that some news outlets are biased. Fox news although a large news organisation in the USA would be ridiculed for its bias by most Americans on this forum, even though it would appear to be a big supporter of all things American. R.T. is just a more pro government propaganda news site than even Fox. At least fox has criticised the President on the odd occasion, something RT would not dream of, *but please post any anti Putin news from RT to prove me wrong.*


For Klondick's reference.

----------


## panama hat

> And have avoided actually answering the question that was posed to him, also.


To wit:



> Every bladdy democracy, you blind retard.





> one could say every day . . . the US.
> 
> Fairly well every newspaper or news organisation . . .


Asked.  Answered.  Which is more than you ever do

You really are a fuckwit without compare

----------


## Klondyke

> Every bladdy democracy, you blind retard.


...where for centuries the law of stronger and powerful ones prevails...

----------


## Klondyke

> That's what pisses me off about Putin. He is way too patient. 
> 
> This guy could have been president. And he's still a very powerful politician.


Do you want a stupidness be fought by another stupidness?

----------


## panama hat

> So, such "criticising of the President", what country would be so stupid to do it like this?





> Every bladdy democracy, you blind retard.


You asked a question. It was answered.  You whined that it wasn't answered . . . you received the answer again.  Your reaction?   Ignore that you were, yet again, shown to be a disingenuous fuckwit and wander on.


> . the US.
> 
> Fairly well every newspaper or news organisation . . .







> Do you want a stupidness be fought by another stupidness?


You do well fighting against yourself - proving your point



So, you still don't understand the answer given to you?  Again:




> *So, such "criticising of the President", what country would be so stupid to do it like this?*





> *Every bladdy democracy, you blind retard.*





> .* the US.Fairly well every newspaper or news organisation . . .*


Has it sunk in yet?

----------


## Backspin

I think the CIA is gonna put down Navalny. He's not popular in Russia anymore. His corruption blog is shut down.

He's worth more dead than alive now.

----------


## Backspin

> Every bladdy democracy, you blind retard.


The Moscow Times is a blatantly anti Putin newspaper. And it exists without incident. 

Before Putin , it was oligarch vs oligarch media. There was no sober consensus TV station. All Putin did was make a BBC of Russia.

----------


## OhOh

> They suit each other. Next they'll chat about  how the gulags were merely resorts for those naughty ne'er do  wells





> The gulags were 1% of the Russian population. The US prison system is 2% of the US populatio


The "gulags" were abolished:

_"The Gulag system ended definitively six years later on 25 January 1960"

Gulag - Wikipedia
_
Whereas the US prison system continues to be No.1, _to this day:

"In September 2013, the incarceration rate of the United States of America was the highest in the world  at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. While the United States  represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around  22 percent of the world's prisoners"


_
_"A graph of the incarceration rate under state and federal jurisdiction  per 100,000 population 1925–2014.  (Omits local jail inmates.  Top line =  males.  Bottom line = females.  Middle line = combined.)"

"The rate of incarcerated women has expanded at about 4.6% annually  between 1995 and 2005 with women now accounting for 7% of the population  in state and federal prisons."



"The stats source is the World Prison Population List. 8th edition. Prisoners per 100,000 population.[7]"

United States incarceration rate - Wikipedia_


One wonders where the Chinese fit into the hierarchy. Here are some clues:

"USA 2,293,157 31/12/07 303.15m *756* US Bureau of Justice Statistics"

"China 1,565,771* 31/12/05 1,319.7m *119* NPA"

Yellow figures are "Prisoners per 100,000 population.[7]"

"World Prison Population List. 8th edition. By Roy Walmsley. Published in 2009. From World Prison Population Lists. International Centre for Prison Studies. School of Law, King's College London.  "The information is the latest available in early December 2008.  ...  More than 9.8 million people are held in penal institutions throughout  the world, mostly as pre-trial detainees (remand prisoners) or as  sentenced prisoners.""

http://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/d...ppl-8th_41.pdf

----------


## Saint Willy

> "The Gulag system ended definitively six years later on 25 January 1960"


 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Fucking hell he's like a Russian Tucker Carlson.

 :rofl:

----------


## panama hat

> Fucking hell he's like a Russian Tucker Carlson.


And he's the Chinese part of Klondyke/OhOh  :rofl:

----------


## Backspin

> 


You think the gulags still exist ?  :Dunno:

----------


## hallelujah

> You think the gulags still exist ?


Serious question:

What is wrong with you?

----------


## panama hat

> You think the gulags still exist ?


Did he say that?  Seriosuly?

Why do you think Mrs Putin was kidnapped by normie lizard people who abducted your neighbour's wife's cousin and bought a racehorse?

Why do you think that?

----------


## Saint Willy

try wikipedia, not that hard to google or digest. 

The _Gulag_ institution was closed by the MVD order No 020 of January 25, 1960[1] but forced labor colonies for political and criminal prisoners continued to exist. Political prisoners continued to be kept in one of the most famous camps Perm-36[90] until 1987 when it was closed.[91] (See also Foreign forced labor in the Soviet Union.)
The Russian penal system, despite reforms and a reduction in prison population, informally or formally continues many practices endemic to the _Gulag_ system, including forced labour, inmates policing inmates, and prisoner intimidation.[21]

----------


## panama hat

^ Too many words - enter Klondyke and OhOh talking about how bad US prisons are

----------


## sabang

> forced labour, inmates policing inmates, and prisoner intimidation


So how exactly does that vary from a western gulag- particularly an amerkin privatised gulag?  ::chitown:: 

Anyway, haters & numpties, got the drill yet? IT WEREN'T VLAD. even Navalny has admitted that, saying he must have been more problem for him dead than alive.

Haters gonna hate, so hate on this- The Moscow Times. It is stridently anti- Putin, closely associated with the Carnegie foundation, and widely read by expats actually in Russia-

Opinion - The Moscow Times

Ejummakate yerselves.  :Smile:

----------


## Saint Willy

> So how exactly does that vary from a western gulag- particularly an amerkin privatised gulag? 
> 
> Anyway, haters & numpties, got the drill yet? IT WEREN'T VLAD. even Navalny has admitted that, saying he must have been more problem for him dead than alive.
> 
> Haters gonna hate, so hate on this- The Moscow Times. It is stridently anti- Putin, closely associated with the Carnegie foundation, and widely read by expats actually in Russia-
> 
> Opinion - The Moscow Times
> 
> Ejummakate yerselves.


wrong login, Socal.

----------


## hallelujah

> wrong login, Socal.


Sabang is a racist who loves Putin, doesn't he?

What is it with these bigots and  the love in with Vlad?

----------


## panama hat

> What is it with these bigots and the love in with Vlad?


As long as they've profited from the capitalist system and don't have to live there . . .

----------


## sabang

> Sabang is a racist who loves Putin, doesn't he?


Yeh, and an anti-semitic, nazi, commie, part jewish fag. Especially when he's right, as usual.  ::chitown::

----------


## hallelujah

> Yeh, and an anti-semitic, nazi, commie, part jewish fag. Especially when he's right, as usual.


I think bigot is more appropriate as it covers more bases.

Yet to see you be right either, and I hope I never have to- for the sake of the world.

----------


## sabang

You're such a forum nobody, I will not even stoop to insult you.

----------


## hallelujah

> You're such a forum nobody, I will not even stoop to insult you.



Sabang views his world according to who's the biggest anonymous noise on a forum that he visits from his mum's bedroom. 

 :smiley laughing:  :smiley laughing:  :smiley laughing: 

I really don't need to say much more, do I?

----------


## Klondyke

> I think the CIA is gonna put down Navalny. He's not popular in Russia anymore. His corruption blog is shut down.
> 
> He's worth more dead than alive now.


They have other means, not really the chemical ones, as it was proven many times during TV live broadcast. 

BTW, seeing yesterday announced (not on MSM), anybody got knowledge?

SENIOR U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL DIED BY SUICIDE IN JUNE
Anthony Schinella, the national intelligence officer for military issues and a longtime CIA official, killed himself at his home.

The poor man 52 years old, just recently married and short before retiring, and involved in the intelligence about the Russian bounty to Taliban, as it was to be used against the president, suddenly deafening silence about this issue. 

(I do not dare to place here the link, but it is not RT, neither The Moscow Times)  

Now seeing one in UK - they have a faster link over the ocean... 
Top US intelligence official died by suicide, medical report reveals | The Independent | Independent

----------


## hallelujah

Dear Klondick,

You are a brainwashed idiot with the brain capacity of a gnat.

Yours,

the rest of Teakdoor

----------


## Saint Willy

> Dear Klondick,
> 
> You are a brainwashed idiot with the brain capacity of a gnat.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> the rest of Teakdoor



Ditto.

----------


## OhOh

> wrong login, Socal.


No reply to the content of his post, just insulting attacks to the poster.

And along comes the AA, to add absolutely nothing other than illustrating their lack of forum etiquette requirements.

----------


## panama hat

> No reply to the content of his post


I'll lower myself to your level:

You first







> Ditto


Thritto

----------


## Saint Willy

Seems the moron can read English. Just need to keep the posts to single words. 




30-08-2020 12:19 PM
Klondyke
*Thread: Russias Navalny in coma in ICU after alleged poisoning*
idiot

----------


## hallelujah

> No reply to the content of his post, just insulting attacks to the poster.
> 
> And along comes the AA, to add absolutely nothing other than illustrating their lack of forum etiquette requirements.


The contempt your posts receive is well deserved. Ditto for your mate perky.

----------


## thailazer

Some   information here. Looks  like personal problems and nothing twisted, except maybe what went on in the bedroom with the S&M gear....

One of the  nation’s highest-ranking intelligence officials died by suicide at his  home in the Washington, D.C., area in June, but the U.S. intelligence  community has remained publicly silent about the incident even as the  CIA has conducted a secret investigation of his death.
 Anthony Schinella, 52, the national intelligence officer for military  issues, shot himself on June 14 in the front yard of his Arlington  home. A Virginia medical examiner’s report lists Schinella’s cause of  death as suicide from a gunshot wound to the head. His wife, who had  just married him weeks earlier, told The Intercept that she was in her  car in the driveway, trying to get away from Schinella when she  witnessed his suicide. At the time of his suicide, Schinella was weeks  away from retirement.
 Soon after his death, an FBI liaison to the CIA entered Schinella’s  house and removed his passports, his secure phone, and searched through  his belongings, according to his wife, Sara Corcoran, a Washington  journalist. A CIA spokesperson declined to comment for this story.

 As NIO for military issues, Schinella was the highest-ranking  military affairs analyst in the U.S. intelligence community, and was  also a member of the powerful National Intelligence Council, which is  responsible for producing the intelligence community’s most important  analytical reports that go to the president and other top policymakers.

 (article abbreviated here)


 After his death, Schinella’s wife discovered a large collection of  bondage and S&M gear that had been hidden in his house, along with  24 guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition. His wife said that one of  Schinella’s CIA colleagues contacted her recently and said the CIA has  completed an investigation into Schinella’s death, but didn’t provide  her with any details.
 Schinella had two children from a previous marriage.








....      Senior U.S. Intelligence Official Died by Suicide in June




> They have other means, not really the chemical ones, as it was proven many times during TV live broadcast. 
> 
> BTW, seeing yesterday announced (not on MSM), anybody got knowledge?
> 
> SENIOR U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIAL DIED BY SUICIDE IN JUNE
> Anthony Schinella, the national intelligence officer for military issues and a longtime CIA official, killed himself at his home.
> 
> The poor man 52 years old, just recently married and short before retiring, and involved in the intelligence about the Russian bounty to Taliban, as it was to be used against the president, suddenly deafening silence about this issue. 
> 
> ...

----------


## Klondyke

^



> After his death, Schinellas wife discovered a large collection of bondage and S&M gear that had been hidden in his house, along with 24 guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition.


There surely has to be a reason of his suicide. Anything else could be just a conspiracy, couldn't be?




> (article abbreviated here):





> His work was particularly sensitive as the most senior military affairs intelligence analyst and as a member of the National Intelligence Council (NIC), which prepares reports for senior policymakers in Congress and the president.
> 
> The work of the NIC has come under recent scrutiny following the uproar over the release of intelligence reports that Russia was paying the Taliban bounties to kill American troops in Afghanistan.
> 
> Shortly after the 26 June revelation in The New York Times, an NIC memo claimed that the intelligence regarding the bounties was inconclusive.
> 
> Questions then arose as to whether the memo was an effort to shield president Donald Trump who had been condemned for not moving to protect US soldiers in response to the intelligence concerning the bounties. The recently appointed director of national intelligence, former Republican congressman John Ratcliffe, is a Trump supporter.
> 
> When the details of the memo emerged in the media, there was no public mention that Mr Schinella, the NICs top expert on military operations in Afghanistan, and the Taliban, and who should have the most input on the matter, had died just over two weeks before.
> ...

----------


## Backspin

> Dear Klondick,
> 
> You are a brainwashed idiot with the brain capacity of a gnat.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> the rest of Teakdoor


The fuckwit 5 plus 2 isn't the rest of TD. You incredibly dry 
impassive vacuous wooden inscrutable scrap bag.

----------


## hallelujah

> The fuckwit 5 plus 2 isn't the rest of TD. You incredibly dry 
> impassive vacuous wooden inscrutable scrap bag.


 :smiley laughing: 

You're just plucking words out of the air now, aren't you?

----------


## HermantheGerman

> So how exactly does that vary from a western gulag- particularly an amerkin privatised gulag?





> The Gulag is a “tragic period in our history” which “must be remembered” – as Putin himself said during the opening of the wall of sorrow.





> The Gulag was the system of Soviet concentration camps (also known as  gulags) in which at least 20 million people were kept over more than six  decades.


Even as a self-hating jew you should have more respect for the name "GULAG" and not post such crap.
Have some respect for those poor souls who lost their lives their.....especially jews.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Even as a self-hating jew you should have more respect for the name "GULAG" and not post such crap.
> Have some respect for those poor souls who lost their lives their.....especially jews.


I would tell him to read Solzhenitsyn, but they don't do his books in popup or colouring format.

----------


## sabang

Getting gulag and ghetto mixed up, are we? There is no particular Jewish connotation to gulags, except maybe that the person who set up the system originally was Lenin, himself Jewish. Oh, and I am not Jewish. Is this a competition to see how wrong you can be?  ::chitown::

----------


## Backspin

> I would tell him to read Solzhenitsyn, but they don't do his books in popup or colouring format.


Reuters news 

Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag" mandatory in Russian schools

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin welcomed on Tuesday the publication of a school version of Soviet-era dissident Alexander Solzhenitsyns The Gulag Archipelago, calling it essential reading.

----------


## sabang

I've read Tolstoy & Dostoyevsky. That's enough Russian for me.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I've read Tolstoy & Dostoyevsky. That's enough Russian for me.


Yeah, two words is a bit taxing eh?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Reuters news 
> 
> Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag" mandatory in Russian schools
> 
> MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin welcomed on Tuesday the publication of a school version of Soviet-era dissident Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s “The Gulag Archipelago,” calling it essential reading.


Why is that so surprising? They both hated Soviet communism.

 :bananaman:

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Getting gulag and ghetto mixed up, are we? There is no particular Jewish connotation to gulags, except maybe that the person who set up the system originally was Lenin, himself Jewish.


During the Great Purges of Stalin tens of thousands of Jews disappeared in the Gulag. Until the 1990s, Jewish life in the Soviet Union and Russia oscillated between equality and neglect. When it became possible in the course of the change, many veterans therefore left the country for which they had drawn in the Great Patriotic War. Many went to Israel, some to the USA, some also to Germany.
While Jews were able to rise to the highest ranks in the army during the war, their position changed fatally after the victory. Jewish Red Army soldiers were soon ordered back to the Soviet Union because they were not allowed to do their service abroad. Shortly before his death in March 1953, Stalin staged the “Doctors' Conspiracy”, an anti-Semitic campaign on a large scale. Moscow medical leaders, including Kremlin doctors, have been charged with spying for the United States. There was talk of an international Jewish bourgeois nationalist conspiracy. Even prominent Jews in the Communist Party, such as the wife of prominent Politburo member Vyacheslav Molotov, disappeared into the torture rooms of the secret service.







> Oh, and I am not Jewish. Is this a competition to see how wrong you can be?


Sorry, my apologies to the jewish people.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## sabang

18,000,000 people passed through the Gulags between 1918 and 1960, and an estimated 1,600,000 died. Wow, were some Jewish? Repeat- there is no Jewish connotation to Gulag. Get your mind out of the ghetto.  :yerman:

----------


## hallelujah

Well, this comes as a surprise to nobody. 

Alexei Navalny poisoned with Novichok, says German government | World news | The Guardian

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Well, this comes as a surprise to nobody. 
> 
> Alexei Navalny poisoned with Novichok, says German government | World news | The Guardian


Not to normal people.

But the whackjobs will be all over it with the "how did.... why did.... never happened" bollocks.

----------


## misskit

^ The CIA wot dun it!

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^ The CIA wot dun it!


Ah yes, I forgot pinky and perky will be along to blame America. Maybe our new whackjob wannabes will join them.

----------


## Backspin

> Well, this comes as a surprise to nobody. 
> 
> Alexei Navalny poisoned with Novichok, says German government | World news | The Guardian


 :rofl:  :smiley laughing:  :rofl: 

I wasn't entirely sure about this case. Up until now. 

Yes. That sounds like the totally logical thing to do. Use the Novichok. Just what Russia needs. Novichok in the headlines again !!.  :smiley laughing: 

And you people lap this all up !

----------


## Backspin

Just like Epstein. Just like the guy who led the White Helmets, the CIA will kill Navalny. He is part of too much fake history. They won't be able to manage him anymore

Btw where are the Skripals ?

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Well, this comes as a surprise to nobody. 
> 
> Alexei Navalny poisoned with Novichok, says German government | World news | The Guardian


COMMUNIST BASTARDS !

Bunch of alcoholic fuck ups !

----------


## HermantheGerman

> 18,000,000 people passed through the Gulags between 1918 and 1960, and an estimated 1,600,000 died. Wow, were some Jewish? Repeat- there is no Jewish connotation to Gulag. Get your mind out of the ghetto.


You really don't get it! Do you? 
That last female really left some permanent damage to your cerebrum  :Ponder: .

----------


## Backspin

> COMMUNIST BASTARDS !
> 
> Bunch of alcoholic fuck ups !


Russian alcohol consumption is down to EU averages, you box headed sour kraut donkey. Russia hasn't been communist since 1989, you utter block head.

*Russian alcohol consumption decreased by 43% from 2003 to 2016, a World Health Organization (WHO) report says.

Russian alcohol consumption down 43%, WHO report says - BBC News



*

----------


## panama hat

> You really don't get it! Do you?


Trying to argue that Stalin wasn't anti-semitic . . . why would sabang do that?

Interesting read:



> *הגולאג בזכרונותיהם של ניצולים יהודים / THE GULAG IN THE MEMOIRS OF JEWISH SURVIVORS*LEONA TOKER and לאונה טוקר

----------


## sabang

I'm not arguing that Stalin 'wasn't anti-semitic', or otherwise (and neither do I care)- why the blatant lie? It is quite clear what I said- that gulag does not have a Jewish connotation. Gulags were associated with political prisoners, not the Final solution- which was a German invention. I'm pretty sure the numpty confused it with ghetto, but who cares.

If you want to do some djoo baiting, then do yer own research- such as how many Jews were in fact in the gulag system, as administrators & bosses.  ::chitown::

----------


## panama hat

> Gulags were associated with political prisoners, not the Final solution


Yes and no to the first . . . and to the second



> why the blatant lie?



Anyway . . . poisoned yet again




> Well, this comes as a surprise to nobody.
> 
> Alexei Navalny poisoned with Novichok, says German government | World news | The Guardian

----------


## sabang

Yep, question is whodunnit. IT WERE'NT VLAD. My sporting guess is on one of the 'influential figures' he was investigating for corruption, but that's a fairly broad field.

----------


## panama hat

In Russia, however, it could be anyone - including Vlad, who has form in this

----------


## Backspin

> I'm not arguing that Stalin 'wasn't anti-semitic', or otherwise (and neither do I care)- why the blatant lie? It is quite clear what I said- that gulag does not have a Jewish connotation. Gulags were associated with political prisoners, not the Final solution- which was a German invention. I'm pretty sure the numpty confused it with ghetto, but who cares.
> 
> If you want to do some djoo baiting, then do yer own research- such as how many Jews were in fact in the gulag system, as administrators & bosses.


The attack on the USSR and the wholesale slaughter of Belarus and Ukraine was part of the final solution. Hitlers anti Semitism came mostly from his hate of the Bolshevik state.

And its also funny how the USSR was led mostly by a Georgian and Ukrainians. The first Russian to lead it dissolved it. But Russia still gets all the grief for the USSR.

----------


## panama hat

> And its also funny how the USSR was led mostly by a Georgian and Ukrainians. The first Russian to lead it dissolved it.


Lenin
Malenkov
Krushchev 
Andropov
Chernenko
Gorbachev
 . . . then the Soviet Union was dismantled.

Seriously, when spreading your bullshit lies you should really do even the tiniest bit of research






> But Russia still gets all the grief for the USSR.


Yea . . . like Austria should, be blamed for all of WWII's horrors because of Hitler.


Sound reasoning there, chico . . . err . . . BS

----------


## sabang

why don't we just blame Chinese spies- seems to have more moronic Press currency than Russian hackers anyway.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> My sporting guess is on one of the 'influential figures' he was investigating for corruption, but that's a fairly broad field.


And my sporting guess is that your so called influential figures bought the "novichok" at "Alibaba Express".  :rofl:

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Russian alcohol consumption is down to EU averages, you box headed sour kraut donkey. Russia hasn't been communist since 1989, you utter block head.
> *Russian alcohol consumption decreased by 43% from 2003 to 2016, a World Health Organization (WHO) report says.
> *


Blat ...... must have hit a nerve there comerade Rusky Backspinky. Cheers buddy!




...and if they are not alcoholics they are suffering from psychological toll of having alcoholic parents.

----------


## panama hat

> Blat ...... must have hit a nerve there comerade Rusky Backspinky. Cheers buddy!


Which one is BS and which one chico?

----------


## panama hat

> And its also funny how the USSR was led mostly by a Georgian and Ukrainians. The first Russian to lead it dissolved it.





> Lenin
> Malenkov
> Krushchev
> Andropov
> Chernenko
> Gorbachev
> . . . then the Soviet Union was dismantled.
> 
> Seriously, when spreading your bullshit lies you should really do even the tiniest bit of research





> But Russia still gets all the grief for the USSR.





> Yea . . . like Austria should, be blamed for all of WWII's horrors because of Hitler.



So very Klondyke-and Trump-esque.  Shown to be wrong yet no response, just more bullshit elsewhere

----------


## Takeovers

> Yes. That sounds like the totally logical thing to do. Use the Novichok. Just what Russia needs. Novichok in the headlines again !!


Yes, it is totally clear. They send the signal to the opposition. Open your mouth and you are dead. Making it obvious by using an agent only they have access to. And then deny it. People like you lap tha denial up, of course. Dead is not even obligatory. The message is getting out even now. Having a german authority confirm it is the best proof.

----------


## panama hat

^ Absolutely correct

----------


## sabang

Perhaps you might elucidate then why Navalny has said it wasn't Putin? His simple posture was that he must be more trouble to him dead than alive. I know y'all want to believe it was Putin but Navalny has many enemies, political assassinations in Russia are not the sole domain of Vlad, and indeed this has happened before- the dissident shot dead 'in the shadow of the Kremlin', for example, was not Putins doing at all- rather a Chechen strongman/ gangster (in fact it was highly embarassing to po' Vlad). But you didn't read that in the western media. Is your commitment to propaganda, or the Truth?

----------


## bsnub

> Putins doing at all


Of course, he is. It is a small cabal there and you are naive to think otherwise.

 ::chitown::

----------


## sabang

No, you are. And it is not a small cabal there at all, if you care to google it an article called 'Russia's dangerous Adhocracy' (or close) will give you a much closer picture of the facts on the ground there than anything you'll likely read in MSM.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Perhaps you might elucidate then why Navalny has said it wasn't Putin?


Did I miss something here? 
I thought he is in a coma?
Yes, please elucidate and don't hallucinate  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Yes, it is totally clear. They send the signal to the opposition. Open your mouth and you are dead. Making it obvious by using an agent only they have access to. And then deny it. People like you lap tha denial up, of course. Dead is not even obligatory. The message is getting out even now. Having a german authority confirm it is the best proof.


Absolutely !

They fall out of windows, they are shot - and repeatedly poisoned, be it at home or abroad. And the obvious thing about these murders isn't a glitch, it's the message: if you mess with us, we'll catch you. Even years later. No statute of limitations, no forgiveness.

The old communist way!

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Perhaps you might elucidate then why Navalny has said it wasn't Putin?


He hasn't said anything he's in a coma you twit.

And Salisbury showed that Putin actually doesn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks.

It stops him interfering in the upcoming elections, and that's all that matters.

----------


## Backspin

> He hasn't said anything he's in a coma you twit.
> 
> And Salisbury showed that Putin actually doesn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks.
> 
> It stops him interfering in the upcoming elections, and that's all that matters.


Putin gives a massive fuck about what people think. Which is why he wanted to showcase the new Russia with the Olympics and world cup.

Which is exactly why is so easy to see that Salisbury (a day before the drop of the ball for the world cup) was a CIA job

----------


## Klondyke

(Cannot find on RT, so perhaps The Moscow Times will also do, hope, MsKitt will not mind...)


*Lukashenko Says 'Intercepted Call' Shows Germany ‘Falsified’ Navalny Poisoning Claims
Updated 5 hours ago

*Germany “falsified” its statement that Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned, Belarusian strongman Alexander Lukashenko told Russia’s visiting prime minister Thursday, citing an intercepted conversation.

The German government said Wednesday that Navalny, 44, who remains in a medically induced coma and on a ventilator two weeks after falling ill on a flight, was poisoned with a substance from the deadly Novichok family. German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s demand for answers from Russia has raised the possibility of fresh European sanctions against Moscow.

“We intercepted a conversation between Warsaw and Berlin before Merkel’s statement… which clearly states that this is a falsification,” Lukashenko told Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin.

“Navalny was never poisoned,” Lukashenko said in a televised meeting shared by a Telegram channel with reported close ties to his administration.

Lukashenko claimed that Merkel made a public announcement about Navalny’s poisoning “to discourage [Russian President Vladimir] Putin from sticking his nose in Belarusian affairs.”

Belarus has been gripped by weeks of nationwide rallies against Lukashenko’s landslide victory in what opposition supporters say was a rigged presidential election. The president previously accused Russia of election meddling, then directed his ire at Belarus’ western neighbors after the Aug. 9 vote.

Lukashenko said he’ll forward the purported intercepted call between Germany and Poland to Russia’s FSB security service. Mishustin appeared stone-faced in the video of his meeting with Lukashenko.

While observers were quick to question the claims, the Kremlin said it was not yet in possession of the materials that led Lukashenko to conclude that Germany falsified the Navalny poisoning claims.

Sergei Naryshkin, who heads Russia’s SVR foreign intelligence service, told the state-run RIA Novosti news agency it was “possible” that Navalny’s poisoning was a “provocation” by Western intelligence agencies.

“If the president of Belarus said it, then he had a reason,” Naryshkin was quoted as saying.

Lukashenko Says 'Intercepted Call' Shows Germany ‘Falsified’ Navalny Poisoning Claims  - The Moscow Times

----------


## Takeovers

> Alexander Lukashenko told Russia’s visiting prime minister Thursday, citing an intercepted conversation.


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

----------


## Backspin

> 


I went to The War Zone forum and even a lot of Seppos are having a hard time believing this one..

I don't hate the Anglo empire. I just think we don't need to do crap like this. We need to reign in our intel agency racket

----------


## hallelujah

Russia is a rogue state and Putin is the biggest rogue of all with his finger in every pie.

And not one single fuck does he give about what the rest of the world thinks of his nefarious actions.

----------


## hallelujah

> Putin gives a massive fuck about what people think. Which is why he wanted to showcase the new Russia with the Olympics and world cup.
> 
> Which is exactly why is so easy to see that Salisbury (a day before the drop of the ball for the world cup) was a CIA job


 :smiley laughing:  :smiley laughing:  :smiley laughing: 

My God, you really are a nutjob par excellence.

----------


## Backspin

> Russia is a rogue state and Putin is the biggest rogue of all with his finger in every pie.
> 
> And not one single fuck does he give about what the rest of the world thinks of his nefarious actions.


I could totally understand why a kool Aid drinking Anglo empire baby like you thinks this

----------


## hallelujah

> I could totally understand why a kool Aid drinking Anglo empire baby like you thinks this


Have you always been this mentally deranged or is it a relatively recent thing that appeared in adulthood?

----------


## Backspin

> Have you always been this mentally deranged or is it a relatively recent thing that appeared in adulthood?
> 
> [ATTACH=CO000[/ATTACH]


Lololololololololol I sorta forgot about Nord Stream 2. That's what this one is about 

Merkel pressured to end Nord Stream 2 support after Navalny poisoning | World news | The Guardian


Angela Merkel is under growing domestic pressure to end her support for the joint German-Russian Nord Stream 2 pipeline project over the confirmed poisoning of the Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny.

----------


## Backspin

Lol an urgent NATO meeting is being called because of Navalny now  :smiley laughing: 

https://twitter.com/terischultz/status/1301565243374612480?s=19


Putin has far far too much patients for the western Anglo empire these days. This Vlad should take over. He is the 4th most powerful person in Russia. Its amazing really. Russia is the only nation capable of alienating the US with nuclear weapons. Yet they provoke it like its nothing. Russia will bring up a strong man which will make the west beg for Putin back

----------


## panama hat

> Lukashenko Says 'Intercepted Call' Shows Germany ‘Falsified’ Navalny Poisoning Claims


You really are fucked in the head  :rofl: 





> And its also funny how the USSR was led mostly by a Georgian and Ukrainians. The first Russian to lead it dissolved it.





> Lenin
> Malenkov
> Krushchev
> Andropov
> Chernenko
> Gorbachev
> . . . then the Soviet Union was dismantled.
> 
> Seriously, when spreading your bullshit lies you should really do even the tiniest bit of research





> So very Klondyke-and Trump-esque. Shown to be wrong yet no response, just more bullshit elsewhere


YoHoo socal . . . you still haven't addressed this lie (I think it was the 18th of that day, 138 lies from today.

----------


## panama hat

> Perhaps you might elucidate then why Navalny has said it wasn't Putin?


Where did you get this information from?  He's still in a coma.  Same sources as Klondyke?



Geez, sabang, what is going on with you?

----------


## hallelujah

> You really are fucked in the head 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YoHoo socal . . . you still haven't addressed this lie (I think it was the 18th of that day, 138 lies from today.


I wasn't gonna point this out because it's like giving his brainfarts and tin-foil hat diarrhea some degree of worthiness, but




> Putin gives a massive fuck about what people think. Which is why he wanted to showcase the new Russia with the Olympics and world cup.
> 
> Which is exactly why is so easy to see that Salisbury (a day before the drop of the ball for the world cup) was a CIA job


The Salisbury poisonings happened on March 4th, 2018. The World Cup started on June the 14th. 

The aim, clearly, is just to shout as often and as loud as possible in the hope that facts will just become lost in yet another shitstorm of nonsense and lies from our resident lunatics.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ÂIf the president of Belarus said it, then he had a reason,Â 
> 
> Lukashenko Says 'Intercepted Call' Shows Germany ÂFalsifiedÂ Navalny Poisoning Claims  - The Moscow Times


This reminds me of those two Russian alcoholic clowns "Heckle & Jeckle". 




Those idiots where funny as shit. Now comes Hallucinshenko with another bottle of vodka to join the party. Two weeks ago we had the Putinoff (who got rejected by his own mother) who claims he discovered Sputnik V, but no one gave a shit.

The only fame he will ever get is this:  

https://imagenes.lainformacion.com/f...a-Putinoff.jpg

----------


## sabang

Like casting pearls before swine, but anyway:-

*Novichok, Navalny, Nordstream, Nonsense 183*

_September 3, 2020  in Uncategorized by craig_
Once Navalny was in Berlin it was only a matter of time before it was declared that he was poisoned with Novichok. The Russophobes are delighted. This of course eliminates all vestiges of doubt about what happened to the Skripals, and proves that Russia must be isolated and sanctioned to death and we must spend untold billions on weapons and security services. We must also increase domestic surveillance, crack down on dissenting online opinion. It also proves that Donald Trump is a Russian puppet and Brexit is a Russian plot.

I am going to prove beyond all doubt that I am a Russian troll by asking the question Cui Bono?, brilliantly identified by the Integrity Initiative’s Ben Nimmo as a sure sign of Russian influence.

I should state that I have no difficulty at all with the notion that a powerful oligarch or an organ of the Russian state may have tried to assassinate Navalny. He is a minor irritant, rather more famous here than in Russia, but not being a major threat does not protect you against political assassination in Russia.

What I do have difficulty with is the notion that if Putin, or other very powerful Russian actors, wanted Navalny dead, and had attacked him while he was in Siberia, he would not be alive in Germany today. If Putin wanted him dead, he would be dead.

Let us first take the weapon of attack. One thing we know about a “Novichok” for sure is that it appears not to be very good at assassination. Poor Dawn Sturgess is the only person ever to have allegedly died from “Novichok”, accidentally according to the official narrative. “Novichok” did not kill the Skripals, the actual target. If Putin wanted Navalny dead, he would try something that works. Like a bullet to the head, or an actually deadly poison.
“Novichok” is not a specific chemical. It is a class of chemical weapon designed to be improvised in the field from common domestic or industrial precursors. It makes some sense to use on foreign soil as you are not carrying around the actual nerve agent, and may be able to buy the ingredients locally. But it makes no sense at all in your own country, where the FSB or GRU can swan around with any deadly weapon they wish, to be making homemade nerve agents in the sink. Why would you do that?

Further we are expected to believe that, the Russian state having poisoned Navalny, the Russian state then allowed the airplane he was traveling in, on a domestic flight, to divert to another airport, and make an emergency landing, so he could be rushed to hospital. If the Russian secret services had poisoned Navalny at the airport before takeoff as alleged, why would they not insist the plane stick to its original flight plan and let him die on the plane? They would have foreseen what would happen to the plane he was on.

Next, we are supposed to believe that the Russian state, having poisoned Navalny, was not able to contrive his death in the intensive care unit of a Russian state hospital. We are supposed to believe that the evil Russian state was able to falsify all his toxicology tests and prevent doctors telling the truth about his poisoning, but the evil Russian state lacked the power to switch off the ventilator for a few minutes or slip something into his drip. In a Russian state hospital.

Next we are supposed to believe that Putin, having poisoned Navalny with novichok, allowed him to be flown to Germany to be saved, making it certain the novichok would be discovered. And that Putin did this because he was worried Merkel was angry, not realising she might be still more angry when she discovered Putin had poisoned him with novichok

There are a whole stream of utterly unbelievable points there, every single one of which you have to believe to go along with the western narrative. Personally I do not buy a single one of them, but then I am a notorious Russophile traitor.

The United States is very keen indeed to stop Germany completing the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which will supply Russian gas to Germany on a massive scale, sufficient for about 40% of its electricity generation. Personally I am opposed to Nord Stream 2 myself, on both environmental and strategic grounds. I would much rather Germany put its formidable industrial might into renewables and self-sufficiency. But my reasons are very different from those of the USA, which is concerned about the market for liquefied gas to Europe for US produces and for the Gulf allies of the US. Key decisions on the completion of Nord Stream 2 are now in train in Germany.

The US and Saudi Arabia have every reason to instigate a split between Germany and Russia at this time. Navalny is certainly a victim of international politics. That he is a victim of Putin I tend to doubt.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...ream-nonsense/g.

----------


## panama hat

^ So, Navalny didn't say it was Putin?  He did?  It's all a big game played by Germany, Saudi, the US and Russia?




> Perhaps you might elucidate then why Navalny has said it wasn't Putin?



I can see that you've referenced and cited a man called Craig Murray . . . and his _blog . . ._ and I guess you've decided that he is far more credible than anyone else in this regard.  Fair enough - you are entitled to your opinion.
Interestingly enough he also opines on the following catchy title:



> The BBC World War Two Porn Page


Interesting man . . .

----------


## Klondyke

> Lololololololololol I sorta forgot about Nord Stream 2. That's what this one is about


One month ago 3 US senators asked the Germany to stop the project - wasn't it also here? However, many German MP's were outraged over telling them what they should do. 

So, this is the next step for those who do not believe that the dangerous Mr. Putin will inject Novichok into the pipeline...

----------


## panama hat

> So, this is the next step for those who do not believe that the dangerous Mr. Putin will inject Novichok into the pipeline...


Of course he would if he so wishes . . . as for your Nord Stream issue . . . why don't you discuss that with socal

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I can see that you've referenced and cited a man called Craig Murray . . . and his _blog . . ._ and I guess you've decided that he is far more credible than anyone else in this regard.  Fair enough - you are entitled to your opinion.
> Interestingly enough he also opines on the following catchy title:


Craig Murray is a disgraced former civil servant who was sacked, and spends all of his time kissing Putin arse and slagging off the West.

He probably has a bank account in Cyprus into which a sum of rubles is deposited every month.

His writing his worthless shit. You only have to look at who posts it.

----------


## Backspin

> Craig Murray is a disgraced former civil servant who was sacked, and spends all of his time kissing Putin arse and slagging off the West.
> 
> He probably has a bank account in Cyprus into which a sum of rubles is deposited every month.
> 
> His writing his worthless shit. You only have to look at who posts it.


No. He couldn't support the  narrative after the fake Syria chemical weapons attacks. That's basically when I flipped too. 

Those Syria attacks were blatant false flags.

----------


## Klondyke

> He probably has a bank account in Cyprus into which a sum of rubles is deposited every month


Wondering why all the people who do not quite believe fairy tales about the Little Red Riding Hood are so fortunate to have a fat account in rubles (and not in US$)...





> His writing his worthless shit. You only have to look at who posts it.


It's not important what's written, but who has written...

----------


## Backspin

> Wondering why all the people who do not quite believe fairy tales about the Little Red Riding Hood are so fortunate to have a fat account in rubles (and not in US$)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not important what's written, but who has written...


If Harry accuses a nerd like Craig Murray of being an agent of Putin, then he will do it with anyone. Nobody on earth can make a legit grievance on the part of Russia because Russia has zero legitimacy.

Harry is genocidal. This wholesale loathing of one country and people, is genocidal.

----------


## hallelujah

I was wondering before why Teakdoor seems to attract so many crazies and tinfoil hatters like Backspin, Pinky and Perky and their ilk; I don't think I've ever come across another website quite like it. 

Any idea why this is the case?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I was wondering before why Teakdoor seems to attract so many crazies and tinfoil hatters like Backspin, Pinky and Perky and their ilk; I don't think I've ever come across another website quite like it. 
> 
> Any idea why this is the case?


They've probably been booted off everywhere else for being witless fucks.

Fortunately the thread is more readable when you skip past the

*This message is hidden because*

----------


## Backspin

> They've probably been booted off everywhere else for being witless fucks.
> 
> Fortunately the thread is more readable when you skip past the
> 
> *This message is hidden because*



Nope. Its quite common on all forums. The Anglo empire's media propaganda doesn't stick like it used to. 

Here's a hidden message 

go fuck yourself

----------


## Backspin

Where did my CIA thread go ??? I seriously just spent 15 minutes trying to find it fuck

Because the question always is , why ? I was anti conspiracy crowd because I didn't think our countries had any reason to do these conspiracies. But with the Syrian war, I could no longer deny that the conspiracy crowd was right about some things. 

Our governments do in fact, create false flags. They do this to soften up our geopolitical adversaries. Its mostly the spy agencies like the CIA that do the dirty work. Then there are some middle operators and the politicians up front, are mostly as ignorant as we are.

----------


## hallelujah

^^ You have half a point regarding the impact of the media, Backspin. Prior to the Internet you were just the neighbourhood weirdos shouting at clouds who your mum warned you to stay away from.

Now, with a collective voice for your online fuckwittery, its like the rest of us have on demand access to the local loony bin, albeit with lower IQ levels.

----------


## panama hat

> Our governments do in fact, create false flags.


You realise this now . . . and you're in your thirties/forties?





> I was wondering before why Teakdoor seems to attract so many crazies and tinfoil hatters like Backspin, Pinky and Perky and their ilk; I don't think I've ever come across another website quite like it.





> Any idea why this is the case?


I think it's due to the lax moderation here.  People spouting bullshit is nothing new but to constantly do it at every turn isn't tolerated elsewhere . . . not that I have a lot of experience elsewhere.  
Show me where on other forums BS, chico, JackOff, The Fat Belgian and to a lesser extent OhOh and Klondyke would be 'roaming free' as they do here - they'd be or have been chucked and TD takes them in, gives them goodness knows how many chances, jails them, bans them and then still accepts them under an old or new guise. 

It all comes down to moderation.  Correct me if I'm wrong but this forum is not half as aggressive without chico, JackOff, FatBelgian etc... posting.  
You'll always have the 
Luigi-Ed/Dill
LatinKaren/everyone except chico and Tax
FatBelgian/PH
Tax/Ant
chico/everyone bar Karen and BS
Hal/Klondyke
Harry/whoever disagrees with him  :Smile: 
SA/Brits

etc.... but some just take it to ridiculous levels . . . and I'm looking straight at the likes of chico/JackOff/FatBelgian who do nothing but post aggro shit and then disappear for a while.

----------


## Klondyke

> Harry is genocidal. This wholesale loathing of one country and people, is genocidal.


He is an agent provocateur engaged by the TD owners. 
Otherwise it's here a   bore and waiting just on exciting news that another falang jumped from 8th floor in Pattaya...  (or what Trump said 2 years ago...)

----------


## panama hat

> He is an agent provocateur engaged by the TD owners.


I tried finding a gif that would suit your utter idiocy . . . but nothing was descriptive enough

----------


## Klondyke

> Originally Posted by Klondyke  
> He is an agent provocateur engaged by the TD owners.
> 
> I tried finding a gif that would suit your utter idiocy . . . but nothing was descriptive enough


Unlike harry, pa-hut doesn't need to be hired. A voluntary useful idiot commenting on anything - no matter it does not matter...

----------


## hallelujah

> Unlike harry, pa-hut doesn't need to be hired. A voluntary useful idiot commenting on anything - no matter it does not matter...


A Putin bot poking fun at people for being hired to post on a forum?   :rofl: 

You do humour about as well as you do intelligent posts, you brainwashed Commie idiot.

----------


## panama hat

> A voluntary useful idiot commenting on anything


Except you're not 'useful' in any way, shape or form

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Unlike harry, pa-hut doesn't need to be hired. A voluntary useful idiot commenting on anything - no matter it does not matter...


My dear klondyke you dont appear to understand that your constant defence of Putin and all things Russian has made you an object of derision and certainly not  someone who is to be taken seriously as an objective poster. We all have our likes and prejudices and seek to substantiate our own world political view to a greater or lesser degree but we sometimes have to recognise that facts may prove that view wrong, or at least flawed and an objective person will come to acknowledge this and adjust his view accordingly.
Th U.S President has been pilloried on here by pro western posters many times even by those who aren't on the far left. To my knowledge you have never criticised Putin even once.
 No world leader gets through a term without criticism let alone a President who has been in power for 24 years. To do so would infer they never make mistakes, an area only populated by the most ardent sycophant. 
So there you sit, an otherwise intelligent man, incapable of objective reasoned debate, only the defence of the (at times) indefensible. Unfortunately this counts for nothing when your credibility lies in tatters. I say unfortunate because it is possible to be a pro Russian poster that people take seriously but you are missing that one required trait, objectivity.

----------


## hallelujah

Oh Oh is the same. The only things I can think of is that they're on the payroll, or they still worry about the long arm of authoritarian rule for not toeing the party line.

----------


## Klondyke

> My dear klondyke you dont appear to understand that your constant defence of Putin and all things Russian has made you an object of derision and certainly not  someone who is to be taken seriously as an objective poster. We all have our likes and prejudices and seek to substantiate our own world political view to a greater or lesser degree but we sometimes have to recognise that facts may prove that view wrong, or at least flawed and an objective person will come to acknowledge this and adjust his view accordingly.
> Th U.S President has been pilloried on here by pro western posters many times even by those who aren't on the far left. To my knowledge you have never criticised Putin even once.
>  No world leader gets through a term without criticism let alone a President who has been in power for 24 years. To do so would infer they never make mistakes, an area only populated by the most ardent sycophant. 
> So there you sit, an otherwise intelligent man, incapable of objective reasoned debate, only the defence of the (at times) indefensible. Unfortunately this counts for nothing when your credibility lies in tatters. I say unfortunate because it is possible to be a pro Russian poster that people take seriously but you are missing that one required trait, objectivity.


My dear Hugh Cow, I am afraid that you got it all wrong. It's not a "_constant defence of Putin and all things Russian_", it's just to call the things by their right names. Or should I speak by "doublespeak"?

"_to be taken seriously as an objective poster_" - that is to be left to everybody. Or do you think that everybody thinks as you do? 

"_you have never criticised Putin_" - If there is something to criticise I will do. As a matter of fact, I really do not know a thing that needs to be criticise. Do you know? Then please tell me. 

That he has been _"in power for 24 years"_? I am not entitled to criticise that, that belongs to criticise only to Russia's citizens, whether they think it is good for them and the country or not.  BTW, there are few other world leaders at helm quite a long, it does not disturb us when they do not disturb us. BTW, Angela Merkel has been also quite a long in power.  In USA the leaders are changing, however, the system behind them has not been changed for decades, no matter who keeps the office (and make the announcing).

Whether my "_credibility lies in tatters_"? Who cares, I do not persuade anybody to believe me if he does not believe the facts. Or do you think that I should applaud to the "factual" ranting of e.g. harry's?  "Truth over facts"?  (Few links on facts I have given here this week were democratically made disappeared within minutes) 

Or what to remark to something like here below?
_"Oh Oh is the same. The only things I can think of is that they're on the payroll"_ 
People who like to emphasize that they are the only ones living in a "democratic" world but never allow to others the right on another opinion or a mentioning of facts. 
(If he is not brainwashed as we are, he has to be "on the payroll"...)

----------


## Backspin

^ He hasn't been in power for 24 years. Dmitri Medvedev was head of state from 2008-2012

----------


## Klondyke

^And not to speak about some who is in politics over 50 years (or 47?)... And another 4 - 8 years in front of him. Won't he get into Guinness?

----------


## sabang

This one is blatantly transparent- heck, it was even on breakfast TV here. They're trying to drive a diplomatic wedge between Germany and Russia, specifically to prevent completion of the Nordstream 2 natural gas pipeline (which conveys enormous economic benefits to Germany). Thus, Europe including Germany will remain reliant on more expensive natural gas shipped from Nth America and the ME. 

Shame it wasn't Vlad, but even shadowy illusions to 'The Regime' or 'the Kremlin' will do the trick with the sort of numpties who don't need to be convinced, because they were already convinced. I suppose the real question is whether the Merkel administration will fall for it, or be bullied into it. We'll see- my impression thus far is she is not such an idiot, or weakling.

----------


## hallelujah

> Well, this comes as a surprise to nobody. 
> 
> Alexei Navalny poisoned with Novichok, says German government | World news | The Guardian


Look at the replies above and see Harriet's comment after the German government first confirmed it as poisoning:




> Not to normal people.
> 
> But the whackjobs will be all over it with the "how did.... why did.... never happened" bollocks.


Prescient.

There are some pretty fucking whacko people on this forum.

----------


## hallelujah

> My dear Hugh Cow, I am afraid that you got it all wrong. It's not a "_constant defence of Putin and all things Russian_", it's just to call the things by their right names. Or should I speak by "doublespeak"


Being of Irish stock, my grandparents would often say "would you look at this?"

In a post replying to criticism of him not being objective, Klongdick says this:  :rofl: 





> "_you have never criticised Putin_" - If there is something to criticise I will do. As a matter of fact, I really do not know a thing that needs to be criticise. Do you know? Then please tell me.



I think this quote is deserving of my old gran's comment.

----------


## lom

> This one is blatantly transparent- heck, it was even on breakfast TV here.


That's it. Case closed.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ^ He hasn't been in power for 24 years. Dmitri Medvedev was head of state from 2008-2012


You are probably even too dumb to understand this "RUSSIAN" joke  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

A joke going around among Russians these days has President Vladimir  Putin and Dmitry Medvedev waking up in the Kremlin in 2023 with a  vicious hangover. 
Putin says to Medvedev: "Which of us is president and which of us is prime minister today?" 
"I don't remember," Medvedev replies. "I could be prime minister today." 
"Then go fetch some beer," Putin says. 

By the way, there are a million jokes about Putin's puppy Medvedev....just wonder why?

----------


## panama hat

> In a post replying to criticism of him not being objective, Klongdick says this:


Yes, a brilliant response . . . very similar to some of the total Trumptards who simply refuse to see or acknowledge their heroes screwing up or doing anything bad






> By the way, there are a million jokes about Putin's puppy Medvedev....just wonder why?


 . . . and most of them by Russians

----------


## hallelujah

> You are probably even too dumb to understand this "RUSSIAN" joke 
> 
> A joke going around among Russians these days has President Vladimir  Putin and Dmitry Medvedev waking up in the Kremlin in 2023 with a  vicious hangover. 
> Putin says to Medvedev: "Which of us is president and which of us is prime minister today?" 
> "I don't remember," Medvedev replies. "I could be prime minister today." 
> "Then go fetch some beer," Putin says. 
> 
> By the way, there are a million jokes about Putin's puppy Medvedev....just wonder why?


I saw the post and then realised it was Backspin posting; only he could ever think that Medvedev was really in charge during this time. Nev had it right on the other thread: he's a bit thick but also loves the attention like Dragonfly does.

----------


## hallelujah

> Yes, a brilliant response . . . very similar to some of the total Trumptards who simply refuse to see or acknowledge their heroes screwing up or doing anything bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  . . . and most of them by Russians


He's on the payroll or, just as likely, so brainwashed and so old that he's still fearful that they'll come and get him and send him to 340 years hard labour in Siberia for saying the wrong thing.

----------


## panama hat

> He's on the payroll or, just as likely, so brainwashed and so old that he's still fearful that they'll come and get him and send him to 340 years hard labour in Siberia for saying the wrong thing.


I believe he has young children, so he can't be that old . . . plus the Gulags were a Russian version of Club Med

----------


## hallelujah

> I believe he has young children, so he can't be that old . . . plus the Gulags were a Russian version of Club Med


 :rofl: 

My gran's sister's husband was from Hungary and escaped to the UK in the  late 40s/early 50s; he died the other year, 92 years old, but he always wanted to return to Budapest to see his family before he died. 

Sadly, despite all our promises that he would be ok, he never even left England in all his time here because the fear that "the Russians would get him" if he went back never left him. 

Having travelled extensively in Eastern Europe, this kind of story isn't uncommon...

----------


## panama hat

> Having travelled extensively in Eastern Europe, this kind of story isn't uncommon...


Yes, absolutely.  The general dislike and distrust of Russia and Russians is evident everywhere

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I saw the post and then realised it was Backspin posting; <snip> he's a bit thick but also loves the attention like Dragonfly does.


Yeah, I chucked him in the shitter with klondyke, buttplug et al. Posts nothing worth reading.

----------


## Klondyke

> only he could ever think that Medvedev was really in charge during this time


Not every leader can be so strong in his leadership like e.g. GWB, he surely did not need any string-pullers, just daily advice from the Almighty.  Pity, that the world (and his country) could not enjoy him being in "power" few more years...

----------


## panama hat

> Pity


We do.

----------


## hallelujah

> Not every leader can be so strong in his leadership like e.g. GWB, he surely did not need any string-pullers, just daily advice from the Almighty.  Pity, that the world (and his country) could not enjoy him being in "power" few more years...


Our Comical Comrade has spoken!



 :rofl:

----------


## misskit

^ Made me laugh. He was really something.

----------


## Backspin

> You are probably even too dumb to understand this "RUSSIAN" joke 
> 
> A joke going around among Russians these days has President Vladimir  Putin and Dmitry Medvedev waking up in the Kremlin in 2023 with a  vicious hangover. 
> Putin says to Medvedev: "Which of us is president and which of us is prime minister today?" 
> "I don't remember," Medvedev replies. "I could be prime minister today." 
> "Then go fetch some beer," Putin says. 
> 
> By the way, there are a million jokes about Putin's puppy Medvedev....just wonder why?


I'm just pointing out the facts. Go to Wikipedia and see. Dmitri Medvedev was the head of state

But this is the first time in history in mainstream media , where we just pretend that someone else was the head of state , even though it isn't actually true. 

Oh but Medvedev was just a lackey. Yeah. Lets just all just go by who we think was pulling the levers and call them the head of state.

Dick Cheyney was the US president in 2004 to 2008. Didn't you know ?

Hillary Clinton was the brains in the first Obama term. Let's call her the first female president

----------


## Backspin

> Yes, absolutely.  The general dislike and distrust of Russia and Russians is evident everywhere


You've never said a single thing positive about Russia so it's the same thing. You challenge someone else for not being objective when you are just the same. It's just you are on the other team. 

Whether it was the Mongols, the Ottomans, the Swedes, Napoleon ,the imperial Germans , then the British , then the Nazis, now the USA, every big empire of the day , finds a reason to hate Russia , so they can relieve them of some territory. 

Some of us just know this. We know that its all just pawns in a great power imperial expansion. We know it's all propaganda and bullshit. But you and your ilk believe the propaganda and are swept up in it. Just like all the aforementioned pawns of the various great powers through history.

I don't know about you , but I don't want my kids to be part of this history.

If you support the demonization of great powers , then you are going along with war. Just like the China thread and the demonization of China. Where are you going to draw the line ? After we get pushed all the way to a war front with Russia or China , are you gonna say "oh hey I don't support this war". Well then it's far too late. So I'm drawing the line here , and calling out ALL of this great power demonization bullshit.

*Remains of 3,000 of Napoleon’s soldiers found in mass grave show signs of starvation.*

About 675,000 men of Napoleon's Grand Army set out for Moscow to conquer Russia in June 1812, looting and pillaging along the way. By the time of the retreat from Moscow in September, the army, which had swelled to 900,000 along the way, was reduced to 100,000. When the retreating troops reached Vilnius in Lithuania, Napoleon's Grand Army was not so grand anymore: they had been further reduced to about 50,000 vermin-bitten, diseased, cold, and hungry men and women with provisions for 40 days. Now a new study on the remains of 3,000 of Napoleon’s soldiers found in a mass grave has revealed they were starving when they died.

----------


## panama hat

> You've never said a single thing positive about Russia so it's the same thing.


Ask me about Kremlin architecture - beautiful.  Simply stunning.
(There, now you can never say that I have nothing positive to say about Russia)

It's odd, though, coming from someone who has made gross generalisations his schtick - you.




> You challenge someone else for not being objective when you are just the same.


Oh dear . . . the work 'butthurt' springs to mind. 

No, dear socal . . . facts ad the truth are far better than being objective or subjective.  You lie and make up your own facts time and again . . . that's neither being objective nor subjective, it's simply flat-out lying.

----------


## Saint Willy

> I'm just pointing out the facts.


Ok...




> Go to Wikipedia and see.



¯\_(ツ)_/¯




 :rofl:

----------


## Cujo

Sodumb. You know wikis not a reliable source, right?

----------


## panama hat

> Sodumb. You know wikis not a reliable source, right?


As reliable as online forums for him.  Ergo sum - very reliable

----------


## Hugh Cow

Navalny probably self administered the Novachok to make Vlad look bad. I could just see that as a potential discussion between Klon and Oh.

----------


## Saint Willy

> Navalny probably self administered the Novachok to make Vlad look bad.


Encouraged by the USA, dochya know?

----------


## panama hat

> Encouraged by the USA, dochya know?


 . . . and the Germans want to take on Stalingrad . .. err . . . Leningrad . . . err . . . Moscow

----------


## misskit

*Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny is out of a coma, hospital says*

Berlin (CNN)Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny is out of a medically induced coma, the German hospital where he is being treated said in a statement on Monday.


Navalny "is being weaned off mechanical ventilation" and "is responding to verbal stimuli," Berlin's Charite Hospital said. "It remains too early to gauge the potential long-term effects of his severe poisoning," the hospital added.

Navalny, a critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin, became sick from suspected poisoning on a flight to Moscow from the Siberian city of Tomsk last month.


The German government said that tests on Navalny showed "unequivocal evidence" of the use of Novichok, a Soviet-era chemical nerve agent.

Alexey Navalny: Russian opposition leader is out of coma, hospital says - CNN

----------


## Backspin

> Navalny probably self administered the Novachok to make Vlad look bad. I could just see that as a potential discussion between Klon and Oh.


There was obviously no Novichok involved at all. This was all just a CIA job to try and stop Nord Stream 2. 

Navalny is a diabetic. There is a million ways to kill someone , especially I diabetic , without using Soviet era chemicals that have a history of not working.

This story is ALL bullshit

----------


## misskit

*French, Swedish Labs Confirm Navalny's Novichok Poisoning, Germany Says*

Three labs have independently confirmed that Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned with the Novichok nerve agent, Germany said Monday, renewing calls for Russia to explain the incident.


Germany said earlier this month it had “unquestionable proof” that Navalny, 44, was poisoned with Novichok when he fell ill after boarding a flight in Siberia on Aug. 20. Navalny was flown to Berlin in a coma after two days of treatment in the Siberian city of Omsk, where doctors say they have seen no traces of poison.

The German government said in a statement that it sought independent analysis of Navalny’s samples from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) as well as specialized laboratories in France and Sweden.


“Independent of the ongoing OPCW investigations, three laboratories have now independently demonstrated the presence of a nerve agent from the Novichok group as the cause of Mr. Navalny’s poisoning,” it said.


“We renew the call for Russia to explain itself,” the German government added.


Moscow has rejected suggestions that it was responsible for Navalny’s poisoning and dismissed calls to launch a criminal investigation into the incident. The Russian government has complained that Germany has been ignoring its request to see the evidence that Navalny was poisoned with Novichok.

French, Swedish Labs Confirm Navalny's Novichok Poisoning, Germany Says - The Moscow Times

----------


## Klondyke

Is it possible that the dangerous Mr. P. has turned in something like it is often told about some old people? (Now there are some many such stories even on the highest posts - or in-waiting, but who will believe that...)

Why he (Mr.P.) first poisoned his opponent (2% hopeful) but afterwards sent him to Germany with unfinished job? That's can be explained only by his (Mr.P.'s) advanced dementia...

After all, he (Mr.P.) had been always very clever, knowing how to turn over the tables on his foes and even more, to record some gain for himself. Take e.g.:

-2008: when sitting on the bleachers of the Bird Nest Olympic Stadium in Peking while the zealous Sakhashvili started shooting over the border of Georgia (while chewing up many neck-ties sent to him by friends), but at the end of the day the South Ossetia and Abhasia had broken away from him, enjoying now their independence backed by their powerful neighbour

-2014: All of us know what had happened in Ukraine and what was finally gained (beside the heroic sacking of the prosecutor)  

And now such a blatant failure. Hasn't he (Mr.P.) known (from his previous stay in Germany - but that was not the same Germany) - they have got some good laboratories? Especially when the Novichok 2.0 is very "roaring", quite different from the Novichok 1.0, that was very quiet, when the Skripals fell asleep on the garden bench. Luckily, the Aeroflot plane and the whole crew did not need to be discarded like in Salisbury the house and the cat. Neither the private Learjet...

Or will he want to trade off Navalny for the silly old Lukashenko who was lured out today to enjoy the famous hospitality at Mr.P's mansion at Sochi? Perhaps another gain for Mr.P.?

----------


## panama hat

> The German government said in a statement that it sought independent analysis of Navalny’s samples from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) as well as specialized laboratories in France and Sweden.


And yet some cretins still believe in some conspiracy because Putin would never do this

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Is it possible that the dangerous Mr. P. has turned in something like it is often told about some old people? (Now there are some many such stories even on the highest posts - or in-waiting, but who will believe that...)
> 
> Why he (Mr.P.) first poisoned his opponent (2% hopeful) but afterwards sent him to Germany with unfinished job? That's can be explained only by his (Mr.P.'s) advanced dementia...
> 
> After all, he (Mr.P.) had been always very clever, knowing how to turn over the tables on his foes and even more, to record some gain for himself. Take e.g.:
> 
> -2008: when sitting on the bleachers of the Bird Nest Olympic Stadium in Peking while the zealous Sakhashvili started shooting over the border of Georgia (while chewing up many neck-ties sent to him by friends), but at the end of the day the South Ossetia and Abhasia had broken away from him, enjoying now their independence backed by their powerful neighbour
> 
> -2014: All of us know what had happened in Ukraine and what was finally gained (beside the heroic sacking of the prosecutor)  
> ...


Article Fact Check
Two dictators met in Sochi

----------


## sabang

Putin would have had it done right.

----------


## panama hat

Why?  He's failed before.

As a deterrent, however, it still works on some I'm sure

----------


## Klondyke

Would  you resist?







> On September 11, the Transport Administration of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation for the Siberian Federal District announced the search for Maria Pevchikh, who accompanied Alexei Navalny in Siberia. It was on that trip that the founder of FBK became ill, as a result of which he fell into a coma. Maria was supposed to answer a number of questions as part of the pre-investigation check, but she did not, having flown on a special flight to Germany with Navalny.
> 
> The media suggest that it was she who could be the blogger's poisoner, because the woman had access to his personal belongings - they spent the night together in a hotel. Therefore, she could either mix or apply poison. In addition, Pevchikh did not accompany Navalny on the Tomsk-Moscow flight, and this also raises suspicions. In addition, it turned out that Maria's father, Konstantin Eduardovich Pevchikh, is in charge of scientific enterprises and is the head of a biolaboratory.
> 
> A detailed investigation into the personality of the Singers and her relationship with Navalny was published by Pravda.ru . It turned out that a resident of London has been a blogger's liaison for ten years. She passed him various incriminating information for investigation.
> 
> Let's pay attention to a number of suspicious facts. Maria did not return to Moscow with Navalny on a Tomsk plane, and when the blogger was hospitalized in Omsk, she went there via Novosibirsk. First there by car, and then to Omsk by plane. She chose not to fly from Tomsk. It is also alarming that it was not Yulia Navalnaya, the blogger's wife, who was allowed on the special board, but Maria. By the way, then the women were noticed together.
> 
> Note that German doctors thought that Navalny was poisoned by the toxin through his underwear. The singers had access to it. And then a bottle with traces of a poisonous substance appeared in the case. Probably, it was Maria who handed it over to experts from Germany.
> ...

----------


## Klondyke

*Berlin struggles to answer RT's question on fate of Navalny’s mysterious associate who fled Russia for Germany

*15 Sep, 2020

When asked by RT, German government representatives failed to explain the mystery surrounding Alexey Navalny's associate M. Pevchikh, who was with him at the time of the alleged poisoning and fled for Germany shortly.

German government spokespeople were grilled by RT Deutsch during a press conference on Monday. The officials, however, failed to provide any actual answer about the woman identified by Russian authorities as Marina Pevchikh.

“I can’t tell you anything about this. We must not forget that an attempt was made on the life of Mr. Navalny with the use of a poisonous substance. But I can’t tell you anything about the location of an individual,” Steffen Seibert stated.

The associate of the Kremlin critic was reportedly together with Navalny in Tomsk before his alleged poisoning. Unlike all other individuals who interacted with him on that day, she did not cooperate with Russian investigators and fled the country to Germany.

Pevchikh has spoken on the matter with Meduza, a Latvia-based Russian language news site, claiming she was never approached by the police. She also said her name is actually Maria, not ‘Marina’.

German officials have also failed to explain how a Russian citizen managed to obtain a permit for entering the country that fast. Still, little is actually known about Pevchikh, who is believed to hold a UK residence permit – or even citizenship. Moreover, only a few photos of her exist, despite her close association and repeated trips alongside Navalny, who is a very public figure.

The saga of the Navalny ‘poisoning’ kicked off on August 20, when he fell ill on a flight from Tomsk to Moscow. After an emergency landing in Omsk, a Siberian city 2,000 km east of the Russian capital, he was taken to a local hospital in an unresponsive condition.

The opposition figure was flown to Berlin’s Charite clinic two days later, where he is currently being treated. While Russian doctors have found no traces of toxic substances in samples collected from Navalny, their German counterparts have claimed he was poisoned with a variant of the infamous nerve agent family ‘Novichok’. Creators of that family of toxic substances have already said his symptoms did not correspond with the exposure to the agent, however.

Berlin struggles to answer RT's question on fate of Navalny’s mysterious associate who fled Russia for Germany — RT World News

----------


## jabir

Something very wrong here, and I don't think it's entirely Russia. 

I've had days off from this so there may be lapses, but from what I understand Navalny was sent to an Omsk hospital where there's no disputing that they saved his life (German doctors agree), the Russians found no trace of poison in his system, came to the conclusion that he was not poisoned, and sent him to Germany for German doctors to confirm their findings.

And here's where it starts going off the rails, in Germany and by the German authorities, not the Russians. German doctors claim to have detected not just poison but novichok, Russia had their best people on it, but there's always a possibility that they failed to detect it, so they asked for the German research and in line with protocol the German Foreign minister said they would provide it; Russia waited with no sign of the data, and kept pressing the Germans who have since done a u-turn and refused to hand it over. 

As a compromise, the German FM said he passed the data to the OPCW which had sent a team to the German hospital and laboratories and are now investigating. That's good, except the OPCW say they've had no data from the Germans, and know nothing about an OPCW team that Germany says have visited their facilities. Contradictory statements invariably lead to speculation and confusion, but it's from Germany officials and spokesmen, not the Russians who appear to want this matter resolved, and are not prepared to be sidelined, which is fair enough considering they're the ones being blamed. 

Russia requests that the German's clearly state their position, which they haven't done so far, and arrange for a single official to liaise, so that everything passes through that person, and on the record. Germany declines. 

Now reports suggest that Merkel has been trying to speak with Putin over the past couple of weeks. We don't know what she wants to discuss, probably about Navalny, but the reports say he's rejected her calls and will not speak with her until the Germans do what they said they would do, hand over the data, in line with protocol, so that it can be examined by the international community. 

Next, Merkel rolls out the Italian PM (Conte?) to say that Putin promised him that he was putting together a commission to investigate the Navalny affair. Not sure what she hoped to get out of this, and he may have earned another couple of hospitals out of it, but Russia denied it. 

Then reports last week suggest Merkel was toying with the idea of dropping NordStream2, which was her idea in the first place. Russia has invested c$10bn, many German, Austrian and other businesses are relying on it, while it also allows Russia to bypass Ukraine and its transit fees. But Merkel said early on that NS2 is a purely commercial project and has nothing to do with the Navalny affair, so it's not in danger of being sanctioned or otherwise affected. Not sure if Germany could sanction the project even if Merkel wanted to, and certainly not without serious legal and economic implications; the EU could, and it's no secret that Merkel has quite a voice at that forum, but if the EU suddenly decides that NS2 should be dropped, Germany loses all credibility and can no longer be trusted. 

The Germans must validate their claims, which they appear unwilling or unable to do, and unless they do it wouldn't be far wrong to suggest at least some of those claims were based on wishful thinking rather than clear facts. I am still on the fence but leaning toward Russia.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Something very wrong here, and I don't think it's entirely Russia. 
> 
> I've had days off from this so there may be lapses, but from what I understand Navalny was sent to an Omsk hospital where there's no disputing that they saved his life (German doctors agree), the Russians found no trace of poison in his system,


Not only did the Russians "find no trace" but they deliberately kept away any independent medical experts who could have verified what was in his system.

So yeah, I call bullshit.




> Russian officials .... have insisted that there was no proof Mr. Navalny had been poisoned. They have suggested several alternative theories, including a drug overdose and low blood sugar.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/world/europe/navalny-novichok.html

----------


## panama hat

> The Germans must validate their claims, which they appear unwilling or unable to do,


Three separate entities from three countries have confirmed it.

----------


## OhOh

> Three separate entities from three countries have confirmed it.


Three entities have analysed a "sample" given to them. From where, by whom and under who's seal  is not confirmed.

Not that some believe the requirement of proven chain of security has any relevance and we should "trust" in all they deliver.

Some of course still adhere to the standards adopted by various world regulators.

----------


## panama hat

> Some of course still adhere to the standards adopted by various world regulators.


Like you and Klondyke believing and parading everything two authoritarian regimes feed you?  Yes.  Some do. You two.

----------


## jabir

I have no love for Germany or Russia, so it's quite comfortable up on the fence. 

But having announced poisoning and by novichok, Germany (and recently glimpsed I think Sweden and the Dutch) should publish the data. I don't know what that involves or how it's interpreted or where we go from there, but to light the fuse with serious implications and then refuse to hand over the research to the party being blamed, while sending enough data/samples for third parties to confirm that claim, smells a bit. 

And if Putin wanted Navalny dead, on Russian soil, he would be dead by any of many means, rather than have his life saved in a Russian hospital by Russian doctors, and then sent to Germany to confirm that he hadn't been poisoned.

----------


## Klondyke

> the German FM said he passed the data to the OPCW


That must to be a joke:



> The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) is an intergovernmental organisation and the implementing body for the Chemical Weapons Convention


But Navalny is a private person, for that a criminal law is to be applied, something what Ms. Marple and M. Poirot had always practiced to investigate. 

Besides, the OPCW has other tasks to solve in a unbiased manner, together with White Helmets as it was recorded in Syria.  Mind the whistleblowers from their own ranks who reported on the fabrication of the "evidence".

And why they should present the "evidence" to Russians?  isn't a good modern practise to keep the "evidence" against the accused with the plaintiff only?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I have no love for Germany or Russia, so it's quite comfortable up on the fence. 
> 
> But having announced poisoning and by novichok, Germany (and recently glimpsed I think Sweden and the Dutch) should publish the data. I don't know what that involves or how it's interpreted or where we go from there, but to light the fuse with serious implications and then refuse to hand over the research to the party being blamed, while sending enough data/samples for third parties to confirm that claim, smells a bit. 
> 
> And if Putin wanted Navalny dead, on Russian soil, he would be dead by any of many means, rather than have his life saved in a Russian hospital by Russian doctors, and then sent to Germany to confirm that he hadn't been poisoned.


Perhaps, has been pointed out, the intention is to try and make him give up without making him a martyr.

Although he must be a bit batty to have carried on this far.

----------


## Backspin

> Like you and Klondyke believing and parading everything two authoritarian regimes feed you?  Yes.  Some do. You two.


Just like Salisbury. Or the Syria war. Both governments , the US side and the Russian side , are lying through their teeth. Neither account makes very much sense. This is geopolitics. 

The fact that you've been watching this your whole adult life , and you haven't figured this out yet, is amazing.

----------


## Backspin

> Perhaps, has been pointed out, the intention is to try and make him give up without making him a martyr.
> 
> Although he must be a bit batty to have carried on this far.


Pew Research has Navalnys support in Russia at about 2%. But let's round it up to 10%.  He is simply not a threat to the elite in Russia.

It's like Glenn Greenwald running around the US claiming to be the opposition.

----------


## panama hat

> Just like Salisbury.


Tell us about Salisbury







> It's like Glenn Greenwald running around the US claiming to be the opposition.


Except it isn't, but you'd have to understand geo-politics for that

----------


## jabir

The nature of geopolitics makes it unpredictable and subject to abuse; fair enough so far, except in our times politicians tend to be less accountable for their lies and failed manipulations, esp those high on popularity with media clout.

For me still on the fence but never having trusted Merkel, there appears to be enough evidence to suggest that the Germans/she started a high stakes game with serious geopolitical implications that didn't go as expected. 

Imo the German FM should be questioned about his u-turn by first offering and then refusing to hand over data to the Russians but instead giving enough of it to his mates allowing them to confirm his findings. The Russians as the accused should have had first dibs on it, as agreed right from the start. He should also explain why he lied about sending the data to the OPCW and their visits to his facilities; not the sort of lies that need much digging to expose, just a simple phone call. This is surreal. As for bringing the OPCW into the picture so early, with so much confusion created by the Germans, could it be a ploy to avoid giving the data to the Russians?

Why? Could be they're not confident with their own data, that it has holes, but took a chance not expecting this to develop as it has, and that Merkel knows she risks a major blow when the Russians trashed it. This might explain many of the German moves.

Among the reasons for Putin to send Navalny to Germany instead of another country, is that Germany is the de facto force of the EU, it has the best facilities in Europe which he expected to confirm Russian findings, he has a soft spot for the country having lived there for years as a KGB agent, he speaks fluent German, and his daughters attend German schools. I'm sure he regrets that decision.

As for bringing NS2 to the sanctions table the day or two days after announcing it is purely commercial and nothing to do with the Navalny affair, this is pure political bluff with a hefty dose of vanity, considering Merkel cannot simply walk away from NS2 even if she wanted to. Could be wrong, but my guess is if she did try to go all in by bulldozing the EU into scrapping NS2, they would look at the implications, realise they're being led into the bear pit to save her face, and tell her to piss off.

From the Russian side, it appears they are taking this seriously, authorities have tracked every movement that Navalny made in the days leading to his illness, every person he met, every hotel, restaurant, they know what he ate and drank when and where, how much he paid, who he was with, the waiters and the chefs and their families. The only thing that 'appears' to be missing from this dossier is the mystery Russian woman (later identified as Maria Petchik (?)) with British travel documents (passport and or residency) who took a flight from Russia to guess where, that's right, Germany, and then disappeared. 

Again there may be updates, but more madness as of last weekend with the Germans insisting on a criminal probe by the Russians, based on Navalny being poisoned by novichok, a Russian nerve agent, without providing them with the evidence (data) to launch that probe. Nothing makes sense anymore, unless, the Germans tried it on, know they failed, and are playing for time. 

Many missing pieces, but as things stand from here Putin/Russia comes out of this cleaner than Merkel/Germany.

----------


## panama hat

So, I'm wondering where the problems are that you refer to.

Is this article self-explanatory?





> *Navalny, Awake and Alert, Plans to Return to Russia, German Official Says*
> 
> 
> Mr. Navalny talked with a German prosecutor about being poisoned. Word of his improvement came as France and Sweden confirmed that he had been sickened by Novichok, a Russian nerve agent.
> 
> 
> Aleksei A. Navalny in Moscow in 2019. His condition has improved since he was poisoned last month, though his doctors have not ruled out long-term complications.Credit...Maxim Zmeyev/Agence France-Presse  Getty Images
> 
> 
> ...




https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/world/europe/navalny-novichok.html

----------


## Klondyke

> Except it isn't, but you'd have to understand geo-politics for that


Isn't it wonderful that we have here somebody who understands anything? And who tells us what - mostly everything - we do not understand... 

Why not everybody here is so clever as him? (admitted, there are few more here trailing his cleverness)

----------


## jabir

^^
I have no problem with it, everything may be as the article says, though it fails to address the points I raised, doesn't ask the questions one should expect of the NYT, and takes for granted that Russia is the bad guy so the Germans must be honest, truthful and sparkling clean.

Not just the truth, which may be as published, but the whole truth.

Afaik, the Russians may have poisoned Navalny, then saved his life, then sent him to Germany hoping they would fail to detect the evidence. Bit of a stretch, but until everything is laid out anything is possible.

----------


## panama hat

> Isn't it wonderful that we have here somebody who understands anything?





> And who tells us what - mostly everything - we do not understand...





> Why not everybody here is so clever as him? (admitted, there are few more here trailing his cleverness)


You need to stop smoking that whacky backy . . . and to stop stalking me.  :Smile:   Spasiba tovarish






> takes for granted that Russia is the bad guy so the Germans must be honest, truthful and sparkling clean.


Germany didn't have a reason to neither fake the results nor to have him be tested in Germany . . . one of the reasons they sought back-up from France and Sweden.

There's really no 'win' scenario for Germany to unilaterally create aggro with Russia

----------


## sabang

> He is simply not a threat to the elite in Russia.


Relatively few Russians even know of him. He is certainly no threat to Vlad- but he is a relentless anti-corruption campaigner. He has ruffled quite a few feathers among corrupt oligarchs. It is probably one of them that ordered this amateur hit, only to see his life saved by the Russian government.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Relatively few Russians even know of him. He is certainly no threat to Vlad- but he is a relentless anti-corruption campaigner. He has ruffled quite a few feathers among corrupt oligarchs. It is probably one of them that ordered this amateur hit, only to see his life saved by the Russian government.


Yes, because all good oligarchs keep a chemical weapons plant handy.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## panama hat

Nice attempt at deflection . . . 

"Oi Gewalt Vladimir, it's the oligarchs"

----------


## jabir

> Relatively few Russians even know of him. He is certainly no threat to Vlad- but he is a relentless anti-corruption campaigner. He has ruffled quite a few feathers among corrupt oligarchs. It is probably one of them that ordered this amateur hit, only to see his life saved by the Russian government.


I could go with Russian freelancers and a lot more, but as things stand can't see Putin behind this one. 

Whatever the outcome if any, Germany should be held accountable not for unilaterally creating aggro with Russia as PH put it, which makes sense as there doesn't seem to be much value to that in the midst of the pandemic, but for their contradictory statements and actions.

----------


## Klondyke

> but he is a relentless anti-corruption campaigner.


Pity, that he does not concentrate his noble campaign only on the corrupted oligarchs residing in Russia, but also on the ones residing abroad, e.g. in England where are so many speaking his same mother language, stealing billions from Russian people.

Or once healed successfully in Germany, there are also few of them there he could exercise his investigation on.

BTW, there is also a case or two against him in connection with some large money debt...

----------


## panama hat

> Pity, that he does not concentrate his noble campaign only on the corrupted oligarchs residing in Russia, but also on the ones residing abroad, e.g. in England where are so many speaking his same mother language, stealing billions from Russian people.


I agree . . . and they all left and continue to accumulate wealth in Russia . . . all with Putin's blessings. 




> Or once healed successfully in Germany, there are also few of them there he could exercise his investigation on.


Yes, I also agree . . . though to a lesser degree as the German banking and investment system is a bit more strict than in the UK.  Again, though: all with Putin's blessings.

I don't know if Putin is wealthy or mega-rich or whatever, he doesn't seem the type to love wealth over power, but we shall see what he does when he steps down . . . if ever. 






> I could go with Russian freelancers and a lot more, but as things stand can't see Putin behind this one.


The thing that speaks against that is the novichok.  It's not really freely available.  If he would have been gunned down I would agree with you, gangsters or others.  Novichok . . . has to be the government, plus they have form. 





> but for their contradictory statements and actions.


I've been trying to find them - if you could cnp from a - preferably western - source I'd be grateful

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I could go with Russian freelancers and a lot more, but as things stand can't see Putin behind this one.


You can't see Putin being behind an attack on a critic.

Yeah, because he's never fucking done that shit before, has he?

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Saint Willy

> Whatever the outcome if any, Germany should be held accountable


WT Actual Fuck?

----------


## jabir

> You can't see Putin being behind an attack on a critic.
> 
> Yeah, because he's never fucking done that shit before, has he?


Sure he has, but if he wanted Navalny dead, on Russian soil, the guy would be dead, and not necessarily with novichok which points at the gov; but then have him saved by Russian docs in a Russian hospital, only to send the evidence inside him to Germany in the hope that German doctors don't detect it.

Whatever Putin may be, I give him more smarts than that.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Sure he has, but if he wanted Navalny dead, on Russian soil, the guy would be dead, and not necessarily with novichok which points at the gov; but then have him saved by Russian docs in a Russian hospital, only to send the evidence inside him to Germany in the hope that German doctors don't detect it.
> 
> Whatever Putin may be, I give him more smarts than that.


Putin.Doesn't.Care

He's shot down airliners.

He's had various people killed.

He's used chemical weapons against critics and opponents.

He's invaded a sovereign country.

And he's got away with it all.

Repeat after me:

Putin.Doesn't.Care

And that's the message he's sending to anyone who might oppose him.

I just find it amazing how people find that hard to comprehend.

----------


## Klondyke

^Didn't yesterday somebody list here the many national agencies?  Cannot remember which one was it of the abbreviation PUTIN?

----------


## harrybarracuda

Except Klondyke of course. He's incapable of comprehending anything.

----------


## Backspin

> Except Klondyke of course. He's incapable of comprehending anything.


Yeah I remember that. In 2014, the EU was wavering on Russia sanctions. So Putin solved that problem and shot down an airliner.

----------


## panama hat

> Except Klondyke of course. He's incapable of comprehending anything.


Parroting yes, comprehending no. 





> Yeah I remember that. In 2014, the EU was wavering on Russia sanctions. So Putin solved that problem and shot down an airliner.


Does that impress you?  Is that respectful?

----------


## sabang

Vlad sure don't dance to our tune, but why should he? That's Imperialism- he ain't yo' biatch Uncle Sam, he is the President of Russia. 
But he sure can rock n roll- and the people of Crimea & the secular citizens of Syria, threatened by that Daesh scum, are very grateful to him for it.

----------


## Chico

Seems Harry has a thing about everyone in political circles,if it ain't the good old USA,does Harry work for the American propaganda websites. :rofl: 

come on Harry who you working for.?





> Putin.Doesn't.Care
> 
> He's shot down airliners.
> 
> He's had various people killed.
> 
> He's used chemical weapons against critics and opponents.
> 
> He's invaded a sovereign country.
> ...

----------


## panama hat

> come on Harry who you working for.?


Go away little clown, adults are having a discussion

----------


## jabir

> I agree . . . and they all left and continue to accumulate wealth in Russia . . . all with Putin's blessings. 
> 
> Yes, I also agree . . . though to a lesser degree as the German banking and investment system is a bit more strict than in the UK.  Again, though: all with Putin's blessings.
> 
> I don't know if Putin is wealthy or mega-rich or whatever, he doesn't seem the type to love wealth over power, but we shall see what he does when he steps down . . . if ever. 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing that speaks against that is the novichok.  It's not really freely available.  If he would have been gunned down I would agree with you, gangsters or others.  Novichok . . . has to be the government, plus they have form. 
> ...


I don't have the links from that long ago, but some would be from Der Speigel and johnhelmer.com or net. Maas won't be coming out of this clean, and his ambitions to lead the SDP have all but evaporated.

Re: NS2, they're all over the place adding to the confusion with (as expected) different speculative angles, mostly emotive (you shouldn't have done that so whatever I do is ok) and few that look at the real implications. Fex, could Merkel as German driver halt NS2 even if she wanted to, and after having said it was safe from sanctions, without turning the EU into her personal proxy which would have a whopping political checkbin; then the huge legal/economic consequences throughout her part of Europe, and after all that, IF she doesn't back off AND she succeeds in killing the project, how this leaves Germany in matters of trust, esp considering it was her idea to start with. I think that's academic, with emotions giving way to reality, but she's gone next year so one never knows.

----------


## Latindancer

Of course Putin doesn't care...he's ex-KGB. Somewhat psychopathic; not exactly a gentle, sensitive soul.

----------


## Klondyke

> Seems Harry has a thing about everyone in political circles,if it ain't the good old USA,does Harry work for the American propaganda websites.
> 
> come on Harry who you working for.?


Haven't you known our Agent Provocateur?  Only forgotten to enlighten us what country was meant by "HE'S"...





> Originally Posted by *harrybarracuda*  (Russias Navalny in coma in ICU after alleged poisoning)
> _He's shot down airliners.
> 
> He's had various people killed.
> 
> He's used chemical weapons against critics and opponents.
> 
> He's invaded a sovereign country.
> 
> ...

----------


## panama hat

> Haven't you known our Agent Provocateur?


You're speaking of yourself, clearly

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Vlad sure don't dance to our tune, but why should he? That's Imperialism- he ain't yo' biatch Uncle Sam, he is the President of Russia. 
> But he sure can rock n roll- and the people of Crimea & the secular citizens of Syria, threatened by that Daesh scum, are very grateful to him for it.


He's a thief, a murderer and a despot.

Why wouldn't a fucking moron like you applaud that?

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Putin would have had it done right.



Look what Putin has accomplished these last 20 years. Nothing! He is a master of propaganda and those dumb ass Russians are too weak to get rid of him. Maybe you should start a thread with "Russian lives matter". These idiots get shot in the back and don't even care or know who did it.

Just imagine China would have all those natural resources that Russia has.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Well then again, "Thank You Putin" for being so god dam stupid.

----------


## Klondyke

> Look what Putin has accomplished these last 20 years. Nothing!


And that, after the utmost effort of Jelcin and Gorbatchov to bring Russia with their empty shelves down to knees...

That's also why his party achieved the majority in almost all regional elections this weekend, followed by communists...

----------


## jabir

> Of course Putin doesn't care...he's ex-KGB. Somewhat psychopathic; not exactly a gentle, sensitive soul.


Trying to think of a sensitive soul that makes it to the Kremlin, best I've come up with is Stalin, but he was a bit oversensitive.

 :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> That's also why his party achieved the majority in almost all regional elections this weekend, followed by communists...


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl: 

You fucking muppet . . . 

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl: 


Let's see . . . subdue the population, poison the opposition, marginalise voting options . . . 

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

----------


## Klondyke

> Of course Putin doesn't care...he's ex-KGB. Somewhat psychopathic; not exactly a gentle, sensitive soul.


As opposed to ex-CIA staff, who are very sensitive, gentle and generous. Some of them had been promoted from the director posts up to the highest in the world.  However, in the double standard manner, we modestly do not mention it when speaking about them...

----------


## Latindancer

> Trying to think of a sensitive soul that makes it to the Kremlin, best I've come up with is Stalin, but he was a bit oversensitive.


Mikhail Gorbachev was at least well educated...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Seems Harry has a thing about everyone in political circles,if it ain't the good old USA,does Harry work for the American propaganda websites.
> 
> come on Harry who you working for.?


This makes no sense.

"everyone in political circles"?

I consider the following to be thieving, murderous despots.

Maduro
Hun Sen
Putin
Lukashenko

I consider the following to be a thick fucker:

Baldy orange cunto.

It's not an exclusive list but they are the worst examples.

So what exactly are you blathering on about, dipshit?

----------


## panama hat

> This makes no sense.


It's chico, the burger-flipper.  You expect sense?

----------


## sabang

> He's a thief, a murderer and a despot.


I'm sure Vlad cares every bit as much about your opinion as he does about that of any other Sunni terrorist sympathiser. The opinion that counts is that of the Russian people- and his popularity there far exceeds that of any western political leader. Enjoy that Bitter, son.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I'm sure Vlad cares every bit as much about your opinion as he does about that of any other Sunni terrorist sympathiser. The opinion that counts is that of the Russian people- and his popularity there far exceeds that of any western political leader. Enjoy that Bitter, son.


You can say that when you rig elections and popularity polls.

It's called being a dictator, you fucking moron.

----------


## sabang

Yeh, sure- Putin, Chavez, Assad etc were never elected. Crimea never voted to secede from Ukraine ehh- it was invaded. And there was no coup in Ukraine, just a 'peoples revolution'. Oh, and the Syrian government is gonna fall within three weeks- that's been the case for over five years now. Must be true e'hh, cus uncle sam told you so. Have another pint of Courage son, there is solace in the dregs.  :Smile: 

I suppose, for a certain substratum of IQ, there must be some solace in self lobotomising.

----------


## Klondyke

> You can say that when you rig elections and popularity polls.





> Candidates for the ruling United Russia party and their allies won all 20 governorships with more than 50% of the vote, meaning they would not need to hold a second round run-off.[3] However, the party lost their majority in the regional parliaments of Tomsk, Novosibirsk and Tambov.
> 2020 Russian regional elections - Wikipedia


They did their best, however, what they can do in just 3 days election? They had to use their own brain only, not so easy unlike where the population is massaged over 2 years 24/7, beside the foreign meddling...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Yeh, sure- Putin, Chavez, Assad etc were never elected. Crimea never voted to secede from Ukraine ehh- it was invaded. And there was no coup in Ukraine, just a 'peoples revolution'. Oh, and the Syrian government is gonna fall within three weeks- that's been the case for over five years now. Must be true e'hh, cus uncle sam told you so. Have another pint of Courage son, there is solace in the dregs. 
> 
> I suppose, for a certain substratum of IQ, there must be some solace in self lobotomising.



Putin was probably elected fairly once or even maybe twice. Since then it has been a fix. There is vote stuffing, jailing and killing of opposition leaders and mickey mouse laws banning used to ban public protest. He controls the entire government and judiciary.

Chavez was elected once fairly; his second term was touch and go but throwing around oil money got him re-elected. Then he fucked up by nationalising the oil industry and kicking out foreign partners, which started the decline of Venezuelan oil.

Fortunately, cancer got him.  Maduro was elevated and narrowly won a run-off for the presidency by fixing the vote and cancelling election audits.

The country has been in freefall ever since, and he only got reelected last time by basically blackmailing people with food rations. He actually created his own government above the constitutional one and stuffed the judiciary with his pals. He handed over the entire oil industry to the military so they could get rich but would still back him. That's how he stays in power, by enriching them and stuffing the Maduro family pockets at the same time.

Assad was never elected in a free and fair ballot. His dad controlled the country with an iron fist and fixed every election. When he died, junior continued the good work, and when the majority of the country erupted in protest in the Arab Spring, he started killing them. He would - and should - have been ousted, but Putin decided to back him to score his own Middle East country, allowing the genocide to continue. He had one of those Putin/Maduro elections where anyone can vote, but he gets to count, and amazingly, even though he is a despised Shi'a in a country full of Sunni and had been bombing them for three years,  he won the election with almost 90% of his made up vote. 

Crimea was invaded, and then a mickey mouse "poll" was used to justify the annexation of part of a foreign country. No-one seemed to care enough to kick him out, probably because he's got nukes and he's a psychopath who kills at will.

All of that is beyond your comprehension, because you're a fucking moron.

----------


## Backspin

> Mikhail Gorbachev was at least well educated...


Gorby was a good man. He took the fall instead of starting a new Russian civil war. 

The good ol Americans were advising Yeltsin to shoot Parliament with tank rounds

----------


## hallelujah

^^ Harry on typically eviscerating form there.  :Smile: 

Meanwhile, it looks like Putin's henchmen may have got to Navalny in his hotel room: Novichok 'found on water bottle in Alexei Navalny's hotel room' | Alexei Navalny | The Guardian

"Navalny’s associates remain convinced the poisoning was ordered at the highest level, and signed off by President Vladimir Putin. “In Russia there is no person who would take the responsibility on themselves to do this without consulting with Putin,” said Georgy Alburov, who travelled with Navalny to Tomsk, in an interview on Wednesday."

----------


## panama hat

> "Navalny’s associates remain convinced the poisoning was ordered at the highest level, and signed off by President Vladimir Putin. “In Russia there is no person who would take the responsibility on themselves to do this without consulting with Putin,” said Georgy Alburov, who travelled with Navalny to Tomsk, in an interview on Wednesday."


Simple . . . he hasn't changed his mindset:



And our three Putin-lovers admire his murderous methods . . . also why they like Trump - something about admiring bullies

----------


## Chico

They must have gone  through the bins to find the bottles................. :rofl:

----------


## sabang

I'm thinking of nominating Vladimir Putin for the Nobel Peace Prize, for selflessly saving the life of some opposition peewee, and bravely fighting Islamic terrorism (as opposed to funding it, amerkin style).
 Certainly stands a much better chance than the sarcastic drumpf nomination.  ::chitown:: 

Any seconders?

----------


## Chico

Putin is the man,Seconded.........

----------


## elche

> As opposed to ex-CIA staff, who are very sensitive, gentle and generous. Some of them had been promoted from the director posts up to the highest in the world.  However, in the double standard manner, we modestly do not mention it when speaking about them...


Qanon member.

----------


## panama hat

> They must have gone through the bins to find the bottles.................


Yes, because that's the way it's done . . . by the bottle.

Another quality post by chico.  Seriously, stick with socal and his hooker posts

----------


## Klondyke

> Meanwhile, it looks like Putin's henchmen may have got to Navalny in his hotel room: Novichok 'found on water bottle in Alexei Navalny's hotel room'



^post #283



> Maria Pevchikh, who accompanied Alexei Navalny in Siberia. It was on that trip that the founder of FBK became ill, as a result of which he fell into a coma. Maria was supposed to answer a number of questions as part of the pre-investigation check, but she did not, having flown on a special flight to Germany with Navalny.
> 
> The media suggest that it was she who could be the blogger's poisoner, because the woman had access to his personal belongings - they spent the night together in a hotel.

----------


## lom

> I'm thinking of nominating Vladimir Putin for the Nobel Peace Prize


You can think of doing that but sorry you are not entitled to do it.

----------


## Klondyke

> The good ol Americans were advising Yeltsin to shoot Parliament with tank rounds


Not so bad action against the Russian people parliament as Novichok in the hotel room...

But did not that time the "international community" imposed sanction against Yeltsin?

----------


## sabang

^They've both got a good drinkers schnoz... Probably a helluva party.

----------


## Latindancer

> Gorby was a good man.


Yeah, I thought so. But our resident "expert" disagrees, and sent me a red :

8-09-2020 05:46 AM 					 						 							 								elche 
 					 				 				 					 						Thread: 						 							Russias Navalny in coma in ICU after alleged poisoning 
 					Dipshit

----------


## panama hat



----------


## OhOh

> Meanwhile, it looks like Putin's henchmen may have got to Navalny in his hotel room:


A group allegedly found "evidence" which they passed on to external group.

One suspects the said "evidence" would be deemed "tainted" and of no value in a court of law.

----------


## sabang

They're naming as a 'person of interest' some lady who spent the night with him. She certainly had the access- but she also flew to Germany with him, when he was Medivaced. Why, if she's the perp? That seems doubtful.

----------


## lom

> A group allegedly found "evidence" which they passed on to external group.
> 
> One suspects the said "evidence" would be deemed "tainted" and of no value in a court of law.


Get with the program, Russia no longer questions if it was novichok. Today it is about who did it.

----------


## panama hat

> Get with the program, Russia no longer questions if it was novichok. Today it is about who did it.


OhNo's deflections 101

----------


## hallelujah

> OhNo's deflections 101


Not much point in engaging with Pinky and Perky really. Apart from when you're laughing at them.

----------


## Backspin

> Get with the program, Russia no longer questions if it was novichok. Today it is about who did it.


You really do believe all this nonsense don't you

----------


## Backspin

> Simple . . . he hasn't changed his mindset:
> 
> 
> 
> And our three Putin-lovers admire his murderous methods . . . also why they like Trump - something about admiring bullies


Putin had a boring post in Germany after joining the KGB. He quit to start his own private law practice. He ended up in the liberal boys club in St. Pete's. And did some paper shuffling for the mayor.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Not much point in engaging with Pinky and Perky really. Apart from when you're laughing at them.


Same goes for skidmark really.

----------


## hallelujah

> Same goes for skidmark really.


Yeah, and whereas the other 2 clearly live in fear of being abducted in the middle of the night and sent for 999 years re-education, Skidmark is full whackjob of his own volition (not forgetting the influence of the nutcase websites he gullibly laps up). 

Arguably worse than P and P.

----------


## sabang

Curious why this thread is not in the Doghouse mods?

----------


## OhOh

> Russia no longer questions if it was novichok.


It appears not if one takes these reports from Tass as the Russian viewpoint:*

OPCW redirects Moscows request on Navalny case to Berlin*
_
"MOSCOW, September  17. /TASS/. Moscow contacted the Organization for the Prohibition of  Chemical Weapons (OPCW) with regard to the situation surrounding blogger  Alexey Navalny but the OPCW said that requests should be sent to  Berlin, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told  Rossiya-1s 60 Minutes show on Thursday.

__"We contacted the OPCW, which, unfortunately, played for time and  then said that we needed to contact Berlin," she said. "Berlin in turn,  sent us back to the OPCW. It is a vicious cycle, it is illogical and  absurd and everyone understands it," the diplomat pointed out."

OPCW redirects Moscows request on Navalny case to Berlin -  World - TASS_*

OPCW not finished with analysis of Navalnys test samples yet 
*_
BERLIN, September 18. /TASS/. The Organization for the Prohibition of  Chemical Weapons (OPCW) has not yet completed the analysis of test  samples taken from Russian blogger Alexey Navalny, German Foreign  Ministry Spokesperson Maria Adebahr told a news briefing in Berlin on  Friday.
_
_"The testing is still in progress. We have not seen the results yet," she said.
_
_  The OPCW said on Thursday that it had received a request for  technical assistance over the Navalny affair from Germany. A group of  experts from the OPCW Technical Secretariat took biomedical samples from  Navalny for tests at OPCW-certified laboratories. The results will be  presented to the German authorities as soon as they are ready, the OPCW"_

OPCW not finished with analysis of Navalnys test samples yet -  World - TASS

*German cabinet spokesman reiterates call on Russia for clarifications on Navalny incident * 

_"Steffen Seibert declined to comment  on reports concerning a plastic bottle, which, according to Navalnys  team, had been brought to Berlin from Russia and had traces of the  Novichok nerve agent.

BERLIN, September 18. /TASS/. Germany insists that Russia clarify the  circumstances of the alleged poisoning of Alexey Navalny, German  Government Spokesman Steffen Seibert said at a briefing in Berlin on  Friday.

__According to Seibert, the European Unions summit, set to take place  on September 24-25, would particularly discuss relations with Turkey and  China. When asked why Russia was not on the agenda, he said: "As it  usually happens at summits, other issues may also be discussed, I cant  specify them, well see."
_
_Seibert declined to comment on reports concerning a plastic bottle,  which, according to Navalnys team, had been brought to Berlin from  Russia and had traces of the Novichok nerve agent. "The government has  taken note of the Navalny teams video," he said, adding: "We have said  everything we have to say in our press releases and we have nothing to  add."

German cabinet spokesman reiterates call on Russia for clarifications on Navalny incident -  World - TASS_*

Russian Prosecutor Generals Office sends appeals to France, Sweden over Navalny*  

_"Earlier, the Russian Prosecutor Generals Office sent two appeals over the Navalny incident to Germany
_
_MOSCOW, September 18. /TASS/. The Russian Prosecutor Generals Office  has sent appeals of legal aid to the relevant agencies of France and  Sweden over the incident involving the alleged poisoning of Russian  opposition figure Alexey Navalny, the office told reporters.

__"Based on the European Convention on Mutual Assistance in Criminal  Matters, on September 18, 2020, the relevant appeals for legal aid were  sent to the agencies of France and Sweden," the office noted, adding,  "the new appeals request information on the toxicological tests of  Navalnys biomaterials held in France and Sweden as well as the  interviews of foreign experts.
_
_Earlier, the Russian Prosecutor Generals Office sent two appeals  over the Navalny incident to Germany. "They are yet to be processed,"  the office noted. Russia launched a probe into Navalnys hospitalization  on August 20."_

Russian Prosecutor Generals Office sends appeals to France, Sweden over Navalny -  World - TASS




> Today it is about who did it.


Do you have any evidence or sources for your opinion?

----------


## panama hat

> Do you have any evidence or sources for your opinion?





> TASS





> TASS





> TASS


Do you?


Here's one you'd like, source and all:




> *MIKE TYSON OFFERED SERIOUS CA$H TO FIGHT RUSSIAN DICTATOR VLADIMIR PUTIN*
> 
> 
> As Radar readers know, Putin has recently been busted for having a bizarre Hollywood the list filled with dirty secretes on Tinseltown’s biggest stars – all of which he is reportedly prepared to expose if they crusade against Russian outrages.
> 
> Putin is reported to have declined due to 'ill health'.
> 
> Mike Tyson Offered Cash To Fight Russian Dictator Vladimir Putin


And this is from a Pro-Trump/Putin newspaper.

And more:




> *THE WORLD’S MOST POPULAR MASS MURDERER: PUTIN* 
> 
> 
> by Alex HollingsDec 7, 2017SHARE THIS:
> Facebook
> Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


https://sofrep.com/news/the-worlds-m...-election-bid/



Sources that you cannot criticise.

----------


## Klondyke

Is there any judiciary court in the world that would allow the prosecution to present any "evidence" without any forensic proof that the "evidence" was collected at the crime scene?  (just curious...)

----------


## Latindancer

Er....the Koh Tao murders do spring to mind

----------


## jabir

> They're naming as a 'person of interest' some lady who spent the night with him. She certainly had the access- but she also flew to Germany with him, when he was Medivaced. Why, if she's the perp? That seems doubtful.


If that lady is Maria Petchik (?) then it conflicts with more recent revelations, she could not have flown direct from Russia to Germany, because at that time there were no commercial flights between the two countries. But there were commercial flights between Russia and UK, and UK and Germany. Some things start fitting into place, still no answers because the Germans haven't learned to stfu until they know what bullshit statement or story is being spouted by which official to contradict those of another, while the entire narrative is stumbling blind in the middle of a minefield sown with old 'facts' that cannot be reconciled with more lethal surfacing facts. 

All of this adds to the confusion, which appears to have begun in Germany by German officials, but new stuff coming out makes it not impossible that the scheme was hatched in good ole UK with the Germans picking up either as patsies or collaborators. Petchik's route from Russia to Germany was almost certainly via the UK. 

After the false tea narrative was slaughtered, and even Putin haters began raising eyebrows, it's striking that we first hear about *the* water bottle when Petchik turns up in Germany, from UK, carrying a bottle containing traces of novichok with which Putin's thugs supposedly used to try and kill an opponent, and failed, and forgot to remove from the scene of the crime! Then, when Navalny became ill and his team returned to search his room, 4 hours after checking out, these professionals overlooked the bottle which Putin's killers forgot to remove, and the type of delivery system they would be looking for; at some later time the Russian Petchik woman happens along, with legal Brit travel documents but no official or Party authority to be anywhere near the hotel room that Navalny occupied, she stumbles upon the bottle, identifies it as the weapon, and thinks fcuk me let's smuggle it out of Russia via UK to Germany. 

There you go for starters, if anyone believes any of this shit on top of previous shit and more shit coming, don't be shy, post it, because even many in the anti-Putin camp are beginning to question wtf is going on, now not just with Germany but also where Britain fits into it, which appears increasingly likely.

Meanwhile on the administrative front, Russia again asks Germany for the data, which the Germans have since given to the OPCW, Germany says no but we've given it to the OPCW so go ask them, and Russia does, and the OPCW refers them to Germany. Somebody is trying to delay any chance that Russia, the defendant, might be able to defend itself. 

Whatever the answers, there's a massive cover up of an attempt to pervert the course of justice, at the highest levels, that went horribly wrong, just like at Salisbury where that fraudulent narrative was pimped at a time when sentiment was so strong against the Russians that it became not just acceptable but fact. Sure, it could be a coincidence that in both cases bottles were used as tools of murder, and both conspicuously left behind, by highly trained assassins from the Kremlin, for hostile authorities to find.

Just saying, Porton Down is not a million miles from Salisbury, where other highly trained Russian assassins forgot about a perfume bottle, now it's a water bottle, and the other common coincidence is that both were left behind to fall into the hands of the Brit authorities.

----------


## jabir

> Get with the program, Russia no longer questions if it was novichok. Today it is about who did it.


I'm no expert and we can dilute the numbers to please, but from what I've read novichok is between 6-8x stronger than the most toxic Brit or US nerve agent. Once it gets into you that's it, you're sick, and no way you tick along for 4 hours from hotel to plane with zero effects. One so-called expert I have read suggests this would be a milder, time released version of novichok; unfortunately this leads to so many other uncomfortable questions that I doubt either UK or Germany would like to go that route. But seeing as almost every act or statement seems to dig a deeper hole, could be they're so far gone that the only way out of this bizarre venture is to persuade enough people that want to believe it was Putin, who failed to kill an inconsequential opponent (3 seats from 20,000!) on Russian soil, then saved his life and sent the evidence to Germany. 

More on the water bottle said to be found in Navalny's hotel room. When his team check into a hotel it's not one room they book but several, and security doesn't automatically give him the best room, so there's no way for anyone other than high ranking insiders to know which will be his room. If it was an inside job, then the question arises who dunnit and there's zero evidence that Putin was behind it. Being despised is not proof of guilt.

Even knowing his hotel room, placing a laced bottle there gives no guarantee that anyone will drink from it, and even less that it will be him and not somebody else. More likely, if he was poisoned, it was at close quarters, assassin to Navalny, on the plane, which is where be fell ill.

----------


## Latindancer

An agent provaceur ?

Mossad ?  :33:

----------


## cyrille

> An agent provaceur ?


Are you using their code?

----------


## Klondyke

> If that lady is Maria Petchik (?) then it conflicts with more recent revelations, she could not have flown direct from Russia to Germany, because at that time there were no commercial flights between the two countries


Why to add another confusion? Read what's written:  

 Originally Posted by *sabang*  (Russias Navalny in coma in ICU after alleged poisoning)
_They're naming as a 'person of interest' some lady who spent the night with him. She certainly had the access- but she also flew to Germany with him, when he was Medivaced._

----------


## panama hat

> He has been implicated in the bombing of two Russian apartment buildings in 1999, which helped him justify the start of the second Chechen War as well as helping to solidify his bid for power.
> Putin’s regime has promoted, supplied, and aided terror groups in places like Ukraine, where thousands have lost their lives in skirmishes between pro-Russian and loyalist groups.
> Putin has continued to provide direct military support to the Bashar Al Assad’s Syrian regime, potentially going so far as to aid in hiding chemical weapons Assad has used on civilians.
> Under Vladimir Putin, the Russian government has become one of the most corrupt on the planet — leading many to suspect that Putin himself may now not only be the richest man on the planet, but richer than the top two official entries combined, with an estimated net worth of over $200 billion.
> Putin has been implicated in the assassination or disappearances of a number of democrats, journalists and opposition leaders within his nation, like Alexander Litvinenko, Anna Politkovskaya, Boris Nemtsov, Sergei Magnitsky, Natalia Estemirova, Sergei Yushenkov, Paul Klebnikov, Stanislav Markelov and Anastasia Baburova. Litvinenko, notably, was killed by being poisoned by radioactive polonium-210, available primarily to the Russian FSB (the successor to the KGB).
> Putin ordered the military annexation of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, an act that continues to have reverberating effects in global politics and military posture, and likely will for years to come.
> Putin has provided tacit support for Kim Jong Un’s North Korean regime, including increasing trade and oil supply shipments amid an international effort to isolate the nation and force Kim to relinquish his pursuit of nuclear weapons.


Fact.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> If that lady is Maria Petchik (?) then it conflicts with more recent revelations, she could not have flown direct from Russia to Germany, because at that time there were no commercial flights between the two countries. But there were commercial flights between Russia and UK, and UK and Germany. Some things start fitting into place, still no answers because the Germans haven't learned to stfu until they know what bullshit statement or story is being spouted by which official to contradict those of another, while the entire narrative is stumbling blind in the middle of a minefield sown with old 'facts' that cannot be reconciled with more lethal surfacing facts. 
> 
> All of this adds to the confusion, which appears to have begun in Germany by German officials, but new stuff coming out makes it not impossible that the scheme was hatched in good ole UK with the Germans picking up either as patsies or collaborators. Petchik's route from Russia to Germany was almost certainly via the UK. 
> 
> After the false tea narrative was slaughtered, and even Putin haters began raising eyebrows, it's striking that we first hear about *the* water bottle when Petchik turns up in Germany, from UK, carrying a bottle containing traces of novichok with which Putin's thugs supposedly used to try and kill an opponent, and failed, and forgot to remove from the scene of the crime! Then, when Navalny became ill and his team returned to search his room, 4 hours after checking out, these professionals overlooked the bottle which Putin's killers forgot to remove, and the type of delivery system they would be looking for; at some later time the Russian Petchik woman happens along, with legal Brit travel documents but no official or Party authority to be anywhere near the hotel room that Navalny occupied, she stumbles upon the bottle, identifies it as the weapon, and thinks fcuk me let's smuggle it out of Russia via UK to Germany. 
> 
> There you go for starters, if anyone believes any of this shit on top of previous shit and more shit coming, don't be shy, post it, because even many in the anti-Putin camp are beginning to question wtf is going on, now not just with Germany but also where Britain fits into it, which appears increasingly likely.
> 
> Meanwhile on the administrative front, Russia again asks Germany for the data, which the Germans have since given to the OPCW, Germany says no but we've given it to the OPCW so go ask them, and Russia does, and the OPCW refers them to Germany. Somebody is trying to delay any chance that Russia, the defendant, might be able to defend itself. 
> ...


This reads like the insane ramblings of one of those QAnon nutters.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Curious why this thread is not in the Doghouse mods?


You are right!

Putin = Doghouse

or is there anything positive to report about this communist wanker ?

----------


## Klondyke

Unfortunately, the heinous crime against Navalny - whoever did it (a gardener?) - will get Europe in the danger of the ice age when the NS2 will not bring the necessary heat (the other Streams - the Russians call it Creeks - already in operation will be shut down as well - it will teach Putin a lesson). 

And as Frau Merkel declared few years ago the "Energie-Wende" (Energie U-turn - shutting down the nukes and the coal as well), it's surely manageable, didn't they survived the terrible winter in 1945/46? 

Besides, not to come such misery, there are some friends who surely can help.  Some German Big Guys promised to spend $1B to build 2 terminals for liquified gas - the one bought in Siberia but supplied by others - then please please let us have the NS2, will you?  

Luckily, no such cruel punishment for the world was concluded when the poor Kashoggi disappeared from this world, we can further enjoy our oil consumption - and some do not need to lose the needed jobs and have further profits from the weaponry production...

----------


## jabir

The videos and pics of Navalny's team searching his hotel room, 4 hours after he checked out, and which they filmed to document the event as potential evidence, and to show that they are playing it by the book, have the team wearing no protective gear aside from gloves. So he fell ill on the plane, suspect was poison, symptoms indicate novichok, team is sent to search his hotel room for evidence, and in they go, 3-4 guys with gloves searching for contaminants or a source or delivery system for the world's most deadliest poison, casually bagging and tossing stuff around. One of them picks up *the* so-called water bottle, holds it up to be filmed then puts it down and gets on with the search. 

Just as well Petchik (?) appears on the crime scene after the professionals had left, if indeed it was the scene of a crime which I find less and less credible, and inexplicably since nobody appears to know much about her beyond Brit credentials, and being part of or on the fringes of Navalny's team. She knows his room, has means to enter the unattended scene of a high profile attempted murder of an insignificant political opponent, via novichok, the deadliest poison which fails to kill, she finds and somehow identifies the infamous water bottle that professionals missed even though it was the type of item they were searching for, and smuggles it out of Russia via UK to Germany, to save the planet from Putin.

She takes it to the UK, just as the farcical tea story was being buried, and somewhere in the UK (I won't mention Porton Down, that's too close to Salisbury) Jesus at MI6 decides to convert tea into water. 

Until a few days ago I was critical of the German role, still am, and can't put my finger on it but expect anytime soon that the investigation will veer away from Germany at the core of this farce, and toward UK. And then unlikely, since the Brits are no stranger to muddying the waters of sinister/criminal plots that go embarrassingly wrong, but hopefully an honest and competent journalist if such things exist gets their teeth into it for some of the misdirection to be replaced by the truth. The tea misdirection failed, and the water bottle misdirection is suffering the same fate. What will they come up with next? 

IF Navalny was poisoned, with novichok, it was seconds before falling ill, on the plane; as a lay person with no expertise, I could also go with the only way for that to happen without risking infection to others is by some form of injection, from a sealed source and direct into his body. 

But the longer this current story and sub-plots run the more it stinks!

----------


## HermantheGerman

> And that, after the utmost effort of Jelcin and Gorbatchov to bring Russia with their empty shelves down to knees...





Novichock = 1970
Puting KGB = 1975

Can you see the similarities ?
Sorry if I'm arguing like communist swine  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Unfortunately, the heinous crime against Navalny - whoever did it (a gardener?) - will get Europe in the danger of the ice age when the NS2 will not bring the necessary heat (the other Streams - the Russians call it Creeks - already in operation will be shut down as well - it will teach Putin a lesson). 
> 
> And as Frau Merkel declared few years ago the "Energie-Wende" (Energie U-turn - shutting down the nukes and the coal as well), it's surely manageable, didn't they survived the terrible winter in 1945/46? 
> 
> Besides, not to come such misery, there are some friends who surely can help.  Some German Big Guys promised to spend $1B to build 2 terminals for liquified gas - the one bought in Siberia but supplied by others - then please please let us have the NS2, will you?  
> 
> Luckily, no such cruel punishment for the world was concluded when the poor Kashoggi disappeared from this world, we can further enjoy our oil consumption - and some do not need to lose the needed jobs and have further profits from the weaponry production...



Why do I get this feeling that you are one of the second worst species that Germany has ever produced.
A former DDR communist swine ?  ::chitown:: 

If not....a closely related Warsaw Pact comrade?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## lom

> IF Navalny was poisoned, with novichok, it was seconds before falling ill, on the plane


No, the time between being poisoned and being ill depends on the concentration of the nerve agent.
The Skripal's were poisoned from novichok on their door handle when leaving home but did have lunch at an Italian restaurant and then fell ill on a park bench later. Low concentration.

The female who found the perfume bottle with novichok which had been used for spraying Skripal's door handle, sprayed it on her arm and fell ill immediately. Died a week later. High concentration.

----------


## panama hat

> No, the time between being poisoned and being ill depends on the concentration of the nerve agent.
> The Skripal's were poisoned from novichok on their door handle when leaving home but did have lunch at an Italian restaurant and then fell ill on a park bench later. Low concentration.
> 
> The female who found the perfume bottle with novichok which had been used for spraying Skripal's door handle, sprayed it on her arm and fell ill immediately. Died a week later. High concentration.


 :Smile:  the series was on TV here last week . . . watched it, a bit slow but quite good.

Yes.  Precisely as you say





> Why do I get this feeling that you are one of the second worst species that Germany has ever produced.
> A former DDR communist swine ? 
> 
> If not....a closely related Warsaw Pact comrade?


Nah, he's Russian . . . or at the very least some slav cretin who's pining for a return to communism as he lives in Thailand

----------


## jabir

> This reads like the insane ramblings of one of those QAnon nutters.


Sure it must be insane if you disagree, right?

Not going to get into a pissing contest, but my opinion is based on my perception of how this has developed, at each stage with more questions than answers. Someone has cobbled together a plausible story with loose ends that are slowly being unravelled; it could be Germany or UK or both, and Putin is no angel but so far there's been no evidence that he was behind an attempted assassination of an insignificant political opponent, on Russian soil, with the deadliest poison on the planet that fails to kill, and then sends the evidence to the most efficient facilities in Europe.

How much weight is given to evidence when the witness is shown to be lying, even if the rest of their testimony is honest and conclusive? If this current narrative were put before a western court, imo it would be laughed out.

Disliking Putin is not evidence of guilt.

----------


## jabir

> An agent provaceur ?
> 
> Mossad ?


Good idea, we could blame Mossad as the secondary villain, in case the farce that so many blindly believe deservedly falls flat on its face and Putin is exonerated.

----------


## Chico

> Disliking Putin is not evidence of guilt.


You may find it is for some.......

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Not going to get into a pissing contest, but my opinion is based on


Fuck knows what, but it reads like the insane ramblings of one of those QAnon nutters.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Novichock = 1970
> Puting KGB = 1975
> 
> Can you see the similarities ?
> Sorry if I'm arguing like communist swine



"Jelcin"
"Gorbatchov"
"Puting"

FFS are we making names up here?

 :rofl:

----------


## Klondyke

It's not surprising that MSM are informing us about last weekend regional elections saying Navalny's friends "posing serious test for pro-Kremlin party" (CNN), however stopping short to give the actual figures.

The fact is that only in 2 districts they got 2 and 5 seats (and that only by Navalny's invented "smart voting") what hardly poses a serious problem for the Putin's United Russia with some usual 50 seats per constituency. 

Herewith some detailed results (and they surely will lie to us):
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/09...ody-s-a-winner

----------


## panama hat

And . . . 




> MOSCOW – Not everyone who has a quarrel with Russian President Vladimir Putin dies in violent or suspicious circumstances — far from it. But enough loud critics of Putin's policies have been murdered that Thursday's daylight shooting of a Russian who sought asylum in Ukraine has led to speculation of Kremlin involvement.
> 
> 
> *Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko called the shooting in Kiev of Denis Voronenkov, a former Russian Communist Party member who began sharply criticizing Putin after fleeing Russia in 2016, an "act of state terrorism by Russia."
> 
> That drew a sharp rebuke from Putin's spokesman, who called the accusation "absurd." Throughout the years, the Kremlin has always dismissed the notion of political killings with scorn.
> 
> Gunman in Ukraine kills Putin foe in attack denounced as ‘state terrorism’
> 
> ...


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...spicious-ways/

----------


## jabir

> Fuck knows what, but it reads like the insane ramblings of one of those QAnon nutters.


Contest it, give your opinion point for point, preferably without offence but your choice.

----------


## jabir

> It's not surprising that MSM are informing us about last weekend regional elections saying Navalny's friends "posing serious test for pro-Kremlin party" (CNN), however stopping short to give the actual figures.
> 
> The fact is that only in 2 districts they got 2 and 5 seats (and that only by Navalny's invented "smart voting") what hardly poses a serious problem for the Putin's United Russia with some usual 50 seats per constituency. 
> 
> Herewith some detailed results (and they surely will lie to us):
> https://meduza.io/en/feature/2020/09...ody-s-a-winner


I don't have the exact figures, but something like 20,000 local and regional seats were being contested throughout the country, of which Navalny's party got all of 3, which hardly makes him a target of some grand assassination plot. I'm sure Putin has survived more serious threats without resorting to the political nuke option.

But Germany says it was Putin, so it must be.

And per-lease don't tag me as a Putin lover, though must confess I don't mind the occasional bit of fair play.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Contest it, give your opinion point for point, preferably without offence but your choice.



Oh that's OK, you just carry on.

 ::chitown::

----------


## thailazer

> I don't have the exact figures, but something like 20,000 local and regional seats were being contested throughout the country, of which Navalny's party got all of 3, which hardly makes him a target of some grand assassination plot. I'm sure Putin has survived more serious threats without resorting to the political nuke option.
> 
> But Germany says it was Putin, so it must be.
> 
> And per-lease don't tag me as a Putin lover, though must confess I don't mind the occasional bit of fair play.


So.... Has Russia made any arrests?  How is the investigation going?   Is there an investigation?   Who else has access to the nerve agent that multiple agencies have now confirmed?    I really don't see how it could be anyone else but Putin.  There seems to quite a long list of Putin critics that have been poisoned or otherwise killed, and never an arrest in those cases.   It all walks like a duck.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It all walks like a duck.


And there have been a lot of ducks...

----------


## Backspin

NEVER and never have so many corpses piled up under such ‘mysterious’ circumstances – other than in third world juntas and jihadi hell-holes – aside from those linked to political hits within Clinton, Inc.’s orbit.

CLINTON, INC.’s body pile: RECAPPED

Dear reader, hark back to a warning bell within, Oct. 2013: Hill And Her Actual Bodies/Skeletons, The Pile-Up At Her Door As She Positions For 2016.

If anything, how shocking is it that additional dead bodies are amassing at her door? Still yet, the leftward, captured media remains stone-cold silent.

Clinton, Inc.’s Body Count Piles Up: FBI Agent Commits ‘Suicide’ – Foundation’s Pilfered Billions At Stake! ⋆ Conservative Firing Line

----------


## lom

^ You buy every shit you read?
From mediabiasfactcheck:

_We also found evidence of CFL publishing unproven conspiracies such as the Clinton’s murdering multiple people. Within this article about the Clinton’s they source numerous questionable and conspiracy websites._ 

_For factual reporting, Conservative Firing Line is mixed due to  misleading headlines and the use of poor sources. Our next criteria is  balanced reporting. Does Conservative Firing Cover both sides of issues  in their articles? The answer to that is a 100% no. They never do. This  source is 100% biased in favor of conservatives and against liberals._

----------


## Klondyke

> But Germany says it was Putin, so it must be.


Not only Germany but also German leader of EU (who elected her anyway? but perhaps next Germany's leader?) 




> Von der Leyen also name-checked Russia for its malign activities. "To those that advocate closer ties with Russia, I say that the poisoning of Alexei Navalny with an advanced chemical agent is not a one-off," she said. "We have seen the pattern in Georgia and Ukraine, Syria and Salisbury — and in election meddling around the world."
> 
> In an apparent reference to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project to bring Russian gas to Germany, she added: "This pattern is not changing — and no pipeline will change that." 
> Von der Leyen challenges EU capitals to step up – POLITICO


Good to have some like her watching over us...

----------


## Klondyke

> CLINTON, INC.’s body pile: RECAPPED





> ^ You buy every shit you read?


Aren't all the bodies still alive?

----------


## Klondyke

> So.... Has Russia made any arrests?


So who they should arrest? Please kindly advise them. 

Perhaps the airline crew who made the emergency landing? Or the hotel employees? Or the doctors in Omsk hospital who saved his live? 

Then, if not those, only who remains is Mr.P., isn't he?

----------


## Klondyke

Medical miracle?*

Russian opposition figure Navalny posts photo of himself walking down stairs, says he expects full recovery from alleged poisoning*
19 Sep, 2020


Russian opposition figure Alexey Navalny shared a photograph of himself walking down a flight of stairs, on Saturday morning, explaining that he is slowly regaining his strength after purportedly being poisoned last month.

In the Instagram post, Navalny said that he expected to fully recover from the August episode which resulted in him being transported to Berlin for treatment. He included a photo of himself standing up and active, but said he was still having difficulties with some motor functions. 

The Moscow protest leader added that he had struggled with talking, and for a long time he did not know how to “express his despair.” Using stairs was difficult due to his shaky legs, he noted, before saying he was glad he was slowly getting better. 

Russian opposition figure Navalny posts photo of himself walking down stairs, says he expects full recovery from alleged poisoning — RT Russia & Former Soviet Union

----------


## sabang

> I really don't see how it could be anyone else but Putin.


Then you sure don't know Russia.

----------


## jabir

> NEVER and never have so many corpses piled up under such ‘mysterious’ circumstances – other than in third world juntas and jihadi hell-holes – aside from those linked to political hits within Clinton, Inc.’s orbit.
> 
> CLINTON, INC.’s body pile: RECAPPED
> 
> Dear reader, hark back to a warning bell within, Oct. 2013: Hill And Her Actual Bodies/Skeletons, The Pile-Up At Her Door As She Positions For 2016.
> 
> If anything, how shocking is it that additional dead bodies are amassing at her door? Still yet, the leftward, captured media remains stone-cold silent.
> 
> Clinton, Inc.’s Body Count Piles Up: FBI Agent Commits ‘Suicide’ – Foundation’s Pilfered Billions At Stake! ⋆ Conservative Firing Line


Don't be ridiculous, Clinton was spotless and it's heresy to mention her except in glowing terms; this is why Trump could never beaten her in a fair election without Russian collusion.

As for the Navalny affair, though it may already be updated further down, the BBC managed to track down and interview Maria Pevchikh aka the 'mystery' woman, who appears to be far from 'mysterious' being well known and holding a key position in the Navalny camp. She claims to have been with Navalny throughout, from before to after his symptoms became known, and travelled on the same (special) flight as Navalny from Russia to Germany. If true, since little we've heard so far is known to be, she had the water bottle/s with her. She explains in the interview how she came to take them along just in case there might be traces of the deadliest poison known to man which consistent fails to kill its target.

BBC: Tell us about yourself. What did you do before you came to work for Alexei Navalny.


Maria Pevchikh: My name is Maria Pevchikh, I am the head of the investigation department at the Anti-Corruption Foundation. They called me on the ad, as they say. I studied at the social faculty of Moscow State University, then at the London School of Economics - political science. I lived a normal life and worked.

...background...

Rest of the transcript here: 
Google Translate

There may be loss in translation, and who can say if or how much of the interview may have been scripted, with a cute ending so that all Putin haters can live happily ever after:

"they tried to kill a person with a chemical warfare agent. Somewhere in the middle of Siberia, he almost died, and, most likely, he would have died in Omsk, if he had not been released from there, where some strange people in gray jackets were prowling around the hospital and doing anything except saving his life."

Except, even the Germans agree that the Omsk doctors did save his life.

----------


## jabir

> So who they should arrest? Please kindly advise them. 
> 
> Perhaps the airline crew who made the emergency landing? Or the hotel employees? Or the doctors in Omsk hospital who saved his live?


...or Maria Pevchikh, for importing chemical weapons into Germany.

Only kidding, the Germans must have known it was coming and allowed it in.

----------


## panama hat

> Not only Germany but also German leader of EU (who elected her anyway? but perhaps next Germany's leader?)


There's just so much stupid in one little post

----------


## lom

> Except, even the Germans agree that the Omsk doctors did save his life.


Except that doctors don't wear gray jackets..

----------


## jabir

> Except that doctors don't wear gray jackets..


Well then, they must have been strange people, as she said. And it's also clear from her impression of these strange people that not every single person at the hospital was directly involved in saving Navalny's life, only the doctors...OMG!

----------


## Klondyke

> Except that doctors don't wear gray jackets..


In German hospital Charite, famous for treating opposition leaders from other states, everybody wears white jacket only...

(BTW, in Thai hospitals it's very easy to recognize who is the doctor. A doctor never wears a white jacket...)

----------


## jabir

> In German hospital Charite, famous for treating opposition leaders from other states, everybody wears white jacket only...
> 
> (BTW, in Thai hospitals it's very easy to recognize who is the doctor. A doctor never wears a white jacket...)


Both of mine were wearing white jackets, yesterday, and I noticed some others were also improperly dressed. 

Could be a new thing.

----------


## panama hat

> BTW, in Thai hospitals it's very easy to recognize who is the doctor. A doctor never wears a white jacket...





> etc ad infinitum





> Our "knows it all", knows what the doctors wears when in hospital, not on promotion pictures...





> Both of mine were wearing white jackets, yesterday


Ouch . . . Klondyke shown to be an utter cretin yet again . . . 


Enter stage right, deflection to how badly villagers in Montana treated visiting Mexican farm workers in 2016 - a lengthy TASS report

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Both of mine were wearing white jackets, yesterday, and I noticed some others were also improperly dressed. 
> 
> Could be a new thing.


In fairness, it's common for psychiatrists not to wear white coats to put patients at ease.

Might explain why klondyke thinks doctors don't wear them.

----------


## panama hat

> In fairness, it's common for psychiatrists not to wear white coats to put patients at ease.
> 
> Might explain why klondyke thinks doctors don't wear them.


That's a fair point . . . 







> Both of mine


I trust everything is ok with you?

----------


## sabang

I prefer nurses uniforms anyway.

----------


## panama hat

On or off . . . or wearing?

----------


## sabang

H'mmm. You've finally got me thinking now.

----------


## OhOh

^His name is Ted. 



Tedeeeee...... to his BFF.

----------


## Klondyke

Surprising discovery - that was however known long time ago, based on investigation of the well known forum TD's member (as per anonymous source his name sounds something like 'arrrry) *

Alexei Navalny blames Vladimir Putin for poisoning him

*Leading Russian opposition activist Alexei Navalny says he believes President Vladimir Putin was responsible for his poisoning.

"I assert that Putin is behind this act, I don't see any other explanation," he told German news magazine Der Spiegel in an interview.

Germany, where Mr Navalny is recovering, says he was poisoned by a Novichok nerve agent. Its findings were confirmed by labs in France and Sweden.

The Kremlin denies any involvement.

Responding to the interview on Thursday, Mr Putin's spokesman said there was no evidence that Mr Navalny had been poisoned with a nerve agent, and said CIA agents were working with the opposition leader.
---
His supporters initially believed his tea had been spiked at Tomsk airport but traces of the nerve agent were later found on water bottlesat the hotel where he stayed the previous night.

Alexei Navalny blames Vladimir Putin for poisoning him - BBC News

----------


## panama hat

> Alexei Navalny blames Vladimir Putin for poisoning him


No shit, Sherlock.  

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's Putin

----------


## sabang

'Cept it's not.  ::chitown::

----------


## panama hat

Prove it's not

----------


## Klondyke

> If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's Putin





> traces of the nerve agent were later found on water bottles at the hotel where he stayed the previous night.


...and on the bottles was inscribed with invisible ink something like _Кремль__ номер 1 
_


> Prove it's not

----------


## Klondyke

Navalny "appreciates" the care of the Russian doctors who saved his life:




> Take the doctors in Omsk, for example, who told my wife to her face that I could of course be flown out, only to then turn around and say that I wasn't fit for transport. In my opinion, the chief physician at the hospital in Omsk is worse than the secret service agents who kill people. At least for them, killing is their profession. But he knows everything and tells the world something about metabolic disorders and that I drank too much self-distilled vodka. People who call themselves doctors but wanted to wait until I was dead. Do I hate them? Probably.
> Alexei Navalny on His Poisoning: "I Assert that Putin Was Behind the Crime" - DER SPIEGEL



*What Russian doctors think about Navalny's conflict with Omsk doctors

*


> Alexei Navalny , being in Germany, where he was taken to be treated for poisoning, compared the head physician of the hospital in Omsk, where he was urgently hospitalized in August, with "agents killing people." He also believes that the doctors hid the truth about his diagnosis from the media. What do the colleagues of Omsk doctors think about the correspondence conflict with Navalny - in the material of "Lenta.ru" .


Alexander Myasnikov , chief physician of the Moscow city clinical hospital named after M.E. Zhadkevich, TV presenter:




> In the news: "Alexei Navalny believes that the Omsk doctors wanted him dead."
> Listen, you: would you like - you would have died on the first day!
> I will not ask stupid questions like "Do you have a conscience ?!" or "are you ***** [stunned] ?!" - and it is so clear that the answer to the first question is "no" and to the second - "yes".
> 
> But I want to express my indignation and disgust and have the right to do so. A day earlier, this type accused the President of Russia of his "poisoning". Now the doctors who saved his life. Then he will return to our country and breathe the same air with us. Yes, this is probably all according to the law and right - he is a Russian citizen. But from our side this is no longer tolerance, but some cowardly forgiveness! And shouldn't a Russian citizen be held accountable by law for libel and insults ?!


*"Doctors have the right to demand a public apology"*
National Association of Honored Doctors of Russia:

The National Association of Honored Doctors of the Russian Federation believes that the accusations of Mr. Navalny against Omsk doctors, published in a number of German media, where he says that they are "worse than secret agents who kill people," are blasphemous, unacceptable and should not remain no answer.

In the whole story with Mr. Navalny and in the way it is developing, we see only a dirty political game. His statements in the media, as if written in advance, clearly do not pursue the goal of improving relations of the international community with Russia. He can be compared to a wolf who has thrown off a sheep's skin, since it becomes quite obvious that this person, who calls himself a citizen of our country, does not care for its interests and the interests of his compatriots.

Let's not even talk about the moral side of this story when he insults the people who literally saved his life. Recall that for two days for the life of Mr. Navalny, the best doctors of the Omsk emergency hospital No. 1 fought, where he was brought from the airport after an emergency landing. If not for the professionalism of the Omsk doctors, Navalny would hardly be giving interviews now.

Let us also remind that in the Omsk hospital the patient underwent many studies and analyzes, and all of them were presented to German doctors, who highly appreciated the professionalism of their Russian colleagues.

The entire medical community is outraged and considers it unacceptable to offend doctors who save lives.

We also believe that Omsk doctors have the right to demand a public apology from Navalny. If the doctors of the Omsk BSMP-1 and the chief doctor Alexander Murakhovsky file a class action lawsuit against Navalny for his completely unfounded accusations, the National Association of Distinguished Doctors will support them.

Что российские врачи думают о конфликте Навального с омскими медиками: Общество: Россия: Lenta.ru

----------


## HermantheGerman

> The National Association of Honored Doctors of the Russian Federation ....


 :smiley laughing: 

This post should be in "Funny Jokes Thread".

----------


## HermantheGerman

*Russian Journalist Sets Herself on Fire and Dies, Blaming Government*The  self-immolation by the journalist, Irina Slavina, 47, a longtime  Kremlin critic, came a day after the authorities in her hometown of  Nizhny Novgorod had searched her apartment.


MOSCOW  A Russian journalist who edited  an independent news website died on Friday, setting herself afire in  front of police headquarters in the city of Nizhny Novgorod, a day after  investigators had searched her home there.

Just  before her self-immolation, Irina Slavina, 47, the founder and editor  of Koza Press, a local news site, posted a message on Facebook saying: I ask you to blame the Russian Federation for my death..........

Russian Journalist Sets Herself on Fire and Dies, Blaming Government - The New York Times

----------


## HermantheGerman

> *"Doctors have the right to demand a public apology"*
> National Association of Honored Doctors of Russia:


Russia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world!!!!!

Now you can take your pick:

1. Russian doctors are shit and Ivan would rather kill himself before seeing a doctor or

2. Putin make life unbearable for Sergey Alcoholov.


P.S. making fun of Russians seems somewhat unfair, because 99.2% turns out to be true.
Mne zhal'  :Sad:

----------


## hallelujah

Russia is a corrupt and equally lawless shithole governed by the world's biggest thug. 

That's all you need to know really.

----------


## Klondyke

> Russia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world!!!!!


Not quite true.
Herewith interesting figures:
Suicide - Our World in Data

Quite worrisome:
Suicide rate by firearm - Our World in Data

----------


## Klondyke

> 1. Russian doctors are shit and Ivan would rather kill himself before seeing a doctor


Did you get such knowledge from some of your relatives when visiting the country more than 75 years ago?  And some of them - the luckier ones - coming home 10 years later, however, I doubt that they had a chance to see a Russian doctor...

Actually, the Russians are enjoying a free medical care (almost), something what population in some very rich countries can just dream of. 

Some time ago I remarked here my astonishment when reading in my young years book Hospital by my favorite Dutch writer John de Hartog describing the horrible situation in Texas hospitals where he and his wife voluntarily helped. 

His writing had contributed to some improving actions by the embarrassed govt, however, he and his wife had to move back to Europe, not welcome with critic like that (similarly, also in Thailand do not like the critics of foreigners).

Obviously, the situation in health care hasn't improved much, one of the main factors why the Covid rate is so high. Unlike in permanently demonised Russia, where despite their 100 years of turmoil they do not fare so bad, supplying now other countries by their vaccine.  

So with your remarks, you make yourself a laughing stock...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Russia is a corrupt and equally lawless shithole governed by the world's biggest thug. 
> 
> That's all you need to know really.


Let's not forget that doctors and nurses who don't toe the Putin line have a nasty habit of falling out of windows....

----------


## sabang

And yet Navalny is still alive? Where are the splattered Doctors?  ::chitown::

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Not quite true.
> Herewith interesting figures:
> Suicide - Our World in Data


Your link proves what I said. Learn how to read a chart.
So with your link, you make yourself a laughing stock...

If you can't figure out a chart maybe try reading.

*Russia Ranks 3rd in Suicide Rates Globally, UN Says*

Russia Ranks 3rd in Suicide Rates Globally, UN Says - The Moscow Times

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Did you get such knowledge from some of your relatives when visiting the country more than 75 years ago?  And some of them - the luckier ones - coming home 10 years later, however, I doubt that they had a chance to see a Russian doctor...
> 
> Actually, the Russians are enjoying a free medical care (almost), something what population in some very rich countries can just dream of. 
> Obviously, the situation in health care hasn't improved much, one of the main factors why the Covid rate is so high. Unlike in permanently demonised Russia, where despite their 100 years of turmoil they do not fare so bad, supplying now other countries by their vaccine.  
> So with your remarks, you make yourself a laughing stock...


Yes, there where lucky ones that made it home and never saw a russian  doctor. But why should they? Because today the russian doctors are  marching after them to Germany. Just imagine, you won the war and then  have to beg for a job/freedom from your former enemy.
Have you ever seen the teeth of a russian? It takes a german dentists months to fix that mess.
Have  you ever seen the aftermath of a russian operation? It helps a lot when  trying to identify for example a dead body. Russian operations are  unique if you understand what I mean  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Ohh, the BS about the vaccine might just be to complicated for you to understand....so will skip that part. Try first to grasp THE REALITY that I wrote above for you, and then maybe we can continue.



*Russia prepares health care cuts as COVID cases rise*


As COVID-19 cases once again rise in Russia, the federal government  is preparing to cut health care expenditures. On Wednesday, the Kremlin  sent a proposed 2021-23 budget to the Russian parliament that will ax  spending on the medical system by 162 billion rubles ($2 billion) by the  end of the fiscal cycle. The news comes as daily new confirmed  coronavirus infections have nearly doubled in comparison to August lows  of below 5,000. On Friday, Russia added another 9,412 infections to its  almost 1.2 million total. At least 21,000 people have died from the  illness.
Starting next year, health care spending will fall to  1.13 trillion rubles ($14.5 billion), down about $2 billion from this  yearÂ’s COVID-crisis high. By 2023, expenditures will drop somewhat  further to 1.1 trillion rubles. In contrast, the state security services  will have an annual budget of nearly 6 trillion rubles ($76 billion).
Bearing  in mind that RussiaÂ’s medical facilities found themselves woefully  lacking the necessary equipment, gear, and personnel when coronavirus  initially hit in the spring, and that medical needs will only grow due  to the pandemic, the proposed cuts are a brazen assault on the  populationÂ’s life chances.
Health care personnel in particular are  targeted in the new budget, with expenditures on Â“Development of human  resources in health careÂ” set to fall by 15 percent. RussiaÂ’s doctors,  nurses, emergency medical technicians and other providersÂ—whose salaries  often amount to just a few hundred dollars a monthÂ—will see further  wage cuts and increased workloads.
Many of these workers have  never seen promised bonuses for their work on the front lines this past  spring and summer. Thousands of medical providers labored under  deplorable conditions to treat patients and stem the spread of the  infection, with many contracting the disease themselves and hundreds  dying.

The effect of the cuts in federal-level health care spending will be  intensified by reduced expenditures at the regional level. In order to  close its budget shortfall and sustain an increase in financing for the  security services, Moscow plans to reduce the amount of money it  transfers to provincial governments. Local bodies, which are already  suffering major shortfalls because of the economic fallout of the  pandemic, will in turn have to impose cuts of their own.
In St.  Petersburg, RussiaÂ’s second largest metropolitan center, local-level  health care spending is being axed, with salaries and medical supplies  being the central targets. The city, which is facing $1.3 billion in  lost revenues due to the COVID shutdown earlier this year, is pulling  $1.2 million in funding from its leading institute for research and  treatment of the coronavirus, the Botkin Infectious Disease Hospital.
These  measures are being implemented as cases spike, with the reproduction  rate of the infection now exceeding 1. By late September, just 6 percent  of St. PetersburgÂ’s hospital beds for COVID-19 patients were available,  and medical centers have once again been scrambling to convert wards to  handle the influx of Â“second-waveÂ” patients.
While health care  workers report that they are more prepared now than previously because  of a greater supply of personal protective equipment (PPE), the cityÂ’s  health care facilities have been crippled by years of massive cuts  implemented as part of the Â“optimizationÂ” of RussiaÂ’s medical system,  which has meant the shuttering of facilities. Between 2000 and 2015, the  number of hospitals in the country decreased by well over 10,000. Over  the last several years, there have been ongoing protests by medical  workers against the so-called Â“reformÂ” of the health care system.
The  far-eastern island of Sakhalin, off RussiaÂ’s Pacific coast, also just  announced major cuts in government spending in medicine, welfare,  education and energy. Authorities in the region, where the monthly  median wage is about 57,000 rubles ($740), will ax 435 million rubles  ($5.5 million) from health care alone.
The assault on the Russian  working classÂ’ living standards is not restricted to federal drawdowns  in health care spending. In the new Kremlin budget, set-asides for  families with children are also being cut, as are expenditures on  household utilities and support for new mothers.
These measures  are being implemented as millions of households struggle with wage cuts  and job losses stemming from the COVID-19 pandemic. According to a  recent study by the Higher School of Economics in Moscow, the size of  RussiaÂ’s middle class has shrunk dramatically over the course of the  year, with another 6.1 percent of working people entering the ranks of  the poor.
The Russian ruling class knows that these conditions are  setting the stage of major social conflicts. By the end of the new  budgetary cycle, the financing and supply of the army, national guard  and security forces of the interior ministry will account for 27 percent  of all federal expenditures.

Russia prepares health care cuts as COVID cases rise - World Socialist Web Site

----------


## sabang

See, the Russians are just like us really! They complain about money too.

----------


## Klondyke

> Have you ever seen the teeth of a russian?


No, I haven't. In fact, I do not ask people to show me their teeth, do you?  My teeth are also not so good looking, maintained by many dentists of different nationalities - none of Russian - now appreciating the effort of Thai dentist...

Quite strange your ranting, most of the Germans rather do not touch a topic like you. Even the late good old Alt-Kanzler Helmut Schmidt admitted that  such industrial murdering what happened in past is for any German really something very perturbing...

In these days the German TV's are showing commemoration documents of the reunification 30 years ago, talking with participants of all the then dealing around. 
And all of them appreciate the final withdraw of Russian forces - quite unique in the world history.  That move was possible only by the most pitiful situation of the Russian state 30 years ago, when a substantial financial support was pledged to them - beside the pledge of not extending the NATO to the Russian gates (James Baker said on full mouth - as the only one - it's a BS).

Comparing now what development in Russia has been done within 30 years - but perhaps not with the teeth?


Anyway, I doubt that the Mr. Navalny's appreciation of his Russian doctors will gain him more friends at home, how much of his 1% approval will be increased? 

Wondering why Mr. Putin does not concentrate more with poisoning and shooting on his more dangerous opponents who have 10 - 20 times more approval?

----------


## sabang

^Don't give him ideas. Anyway, if a German came up to me and asked to inspect my teeth, I would run.

----------


## panama hat

> ^Don't give him ideas. Anyway, if a German came up to me and asked to inspect my teeth, I would run.


Because you have the famed British teeth . . . clearly.

----------


## Backspin

> ^Don't give him ideas. Anyway, if a German came up to me and asked to inspect my teeth, I would run.


They are just checking for gold. And maybe silver

----------


## jabir

> ^Don't give him ideas. Anyway, if a German came up to me and asked to inspect my teeth, I would run.


Is it safe?

----------


## Klondyke

> They are just checking for gold. And maybe silver





> Is it safe?


Why not to trust?




> Martin Karl Hellinger (born 17 July 1904, date of death unknown) was a German Nazi dentist who in 1943 was assigned to work at the concentration camp for women at Ravensbrück, with the duty of removing dental gold from those killed at the camp.
> 
> At the first Ravensbrück trial, beginning in 1946, he was sentenced to 15 years' imprisonment. He was released in 1955 with funds to re-establish a dental practice. Details of his later life are unknown.
> 
> Martin Hellinger - Wikipedia

----------


## panama hat

> Why not to trust?


Yup - 1945 compared with 2020 . . . and you're just the same kind of scum to pray to a leader who is himself scum.  You're worse because you know how bad he is yet you still adore him

----------


## Klondyke

> Yup - 1945 compared with 2020 . . . and you're just the same kind of scum to pray to a leader who is himself scum.  You're worse because you know how bad he is yet you still adore him


How gentle the advice of yours... (however, as usually, did not get the clue, the brain still tangled?)

Just be careful when looking for a dentist in Germany that he is not the one who learned the good skill in the mass removal...  (the govt was lucky, no need to teach him, just helping to open new clinic and buying new tools...)   (was HermanTheGerman lucky either not to be treated by him?)

----------


## panama hat

> How gentle the advice of yours...


You're welcome - now, if you would take that advice you'd be better off.  It's one thing praising advice, yet another to follow it.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ^Don't give him ideas. Anyway, if a German came up to me and asked to inspect my teeth, I would run.



So would any dentist...with your bad breath.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> No, I haven't. In fact, I do not ask people to show me their teeth, do you?


It's something called observation. But as I said, it's not only the teeth.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  
At least is was for free and some only had to pay with their life's.  :Scared1: 

Behind the Iron Curtain: Teeth | | Kansas City With The Russian Accent

----------


## HermantheGerman

O.K. Klondyke, at least you are debating and not hiding behind a Rhododendron bush like "NEVERNA".
That little admin hijabi keeps stalking me and making stupid muslim comments.  :finger: 
But I must admit, having my own asslifter does flatter me a bit. Keep it coming Love  :Smile:

----------


## Backspin

> Why not to trust?



Brutal bastards those square heads can be. Is it any wonder why the Russians want to keep them back

----------


## Klondyke

> It's something called observation. But as I said, it's not only the teeth.  
> At least is was for free and some only had to pay with their life's. 
> 
> Behind the Iron Curtain: Teeth | | Kansas City With The Russian Accent


Yes, it's not only the teeth - and the way of seeing the things.

Interesting view behind the Iron Curtain by the one who had lived there, recently deceased...
https://teakdoor.com/famous-threads/...ghlight=famous (The RIP Famous Person Thread)

who had reported what's not always very convenient for some.

Andre Vltchek - Wikipedia


This article written few weeks before he died was an advice for the young people in HK but should be heed by all silly people of the orange revolutions...

*How we sold the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia for plastic bags*
By Andre Vltchek | HK EDITION | Updated: 2020-06-19 07:12

For months, this has been a story that I have wanted to share with young readers in Hong Kong. Now it seems to be the really appropriate time, when the ideological battle between some West superpowers and China is raging, and as a result of it, Hong Kong and the entire world is suffering.

I want to say that none of it is new, that the West superpowers already destabilized so many countries and territories, brainwashed tens of millions of young people.

I know, because in the past, I was one of them. If I weren't, it would be impossible to understand what is now happening in Hong Kong.

I was born in Leningrad, a beautiful city in the Soviet Union. Now it is called St. Petersburg, and the country is Russia. Mom is half-Russian, half-Chinese, artist, and architect. My childhood was split between Leningrad and Pilsen, an industrial city known for its beer, at the Western extreme of what used to be Czechoslovakia. Dad was a nuclear scientist.

The two cities were different. Both represented something essential in the Communist planning, a system that you were taught, by the Western propagandists, to hate.

Leningrad is one of the most stunning cities in the world, with some of the greatest museums, opera and ballet theaters, public spaces. In the past, it used to be the Russian capital.

Pilsen is tiny, with only 180,000 inhabitants. But when I was a kid, it counted with several excellent libraries, art cinemas, an opera house, avant-garde theaters, art galleries, a research zoo, with things that could not be, as I realized later (when it was too late), found even in the US cities of 1 million.

Both cities, one big and one small, had excellent public transportation, vast parks, and forests coming to its outskirts, as well as elegant cafes. Pilsen had countless free tennis facilities, football stadiums, even badminton courts.

Life was good, meaningful. It was rich. Not rich in terms of money, but rich culturally, intellectually, and healthwise. To be young was fun, with knowledge free and easily accessible, with the culture at every corner, and sports for everyone. The pace was slow: plenty of time to think, learn, analyze.

But it was also the height of the Cold War.

We were young, rebellious, and easy to manipulate. We were never satisfied with what we were given. We took for granted everything. At night, we were glued to our radio receivers, listening to the BBC, Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, and other broadcasting services aiming at discrediting socialism and all countries which were fighting against Western imperialism.

Czech socialist industrial conglomerates were building, in solidarity, entire factories, from steel to sugar mills, in Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. But we saw no glory in this because Western propaganda outlets were simply ridiculing such undertakings.

Our cinemas were showing masterpieces of Italian, French, Soviet, Japanese cinema. But we were told to demand junk from the US.

The music offering was great, from live to recorded. Almost all music was, actually, available although with some delay, in local stores or even on stage. What was not sold in our stores was nihilist rubbish. But that was precisely what we were told to desire. And we did desire it, and copied it with religious reverence, on our tape recorders. If something was not available, the Western media outlets were shouting that it is a gross violation of free speech.

They knew, and they still know now, how to manipulate young brains.
At some point, we were converted into young pessimists, criticizing everything in our countries, without comparing, without even a tiny bit of objectivity.

Does it sound familiar?

We were told, and we repeated: Everything in the Soviet Union or Czechoslovakia was bad. Everything in the West was great. Yes, it was like some fundamentalist religion or mass-madness. Hardly anyone was immune. Actually, we were infected, we were sick, turned into idiots.

We were using public, socialist facilities, from libraries to theaters, subsidized cafes, to glorify the West and smear our own nations. This is how we were indoctrinated, by Western radio and television stations, and by publications smuggled into the two countries.

In those days, plastic shopping bags from the West became the status symbols! You know, those bags that you get in some cheap supermarkets or department stores.

When I think about it at a distance of several decades, I can hardly believe it: Young educated boys and girls, proudly walking down the streets, exhibiting cheap plastic shopping bags, for which they paid a serious amount of money. Because they came from the West. Because they were symbolizing consumerism! Because we were told that consumerism is good.

We were told that we should desire "freedom". Western-style freedom.
We were instructed to "fight for freedom".

In many ways, we were much freer than the West. I realized it when I first arrived in New York and saw how badly educated local children of my age were, and how shallow their knowledge of the world was; and how little culture there was in regular midsize North American cities.

We wanted, we demanded designer jeans. We were longing for Western music labels in the center of our LPs. It was not about the essence or the message. It was form over substance.

Our food was tastier, ecologically produced. But we wanted colorful Western packaging. We demanded chemicals.

We were constantly angry, agitated, confrontational. We were antagonizing our families.

We were young, but we felt old.

I published my first book of poetry, then left, slammed the door behind me, went to New York.

And soon after, I realized that I was fooled!

This is a very simplified version of my story. Space is limited.

But I am glad I can share it with my Hong Kong readers, and of course, with my young readers all over China.

Two wonderful countries which used to be my home were betrayed, literally sold for nothing, for pairs of designer jeans, and plastic shopping bags.

The West celebrated! Months after the collapse of the socialist system, both countries were literally robbed of everything by Western companies. People lost their homes and jobs, and internationalism was deterred. Proud socialist companies got privatized and, in many cases, liquidated. Theaters and art cinemas were converted into cheap secondhand clothes markets.

In Russia, life expectancy dropped to African sub-Saharan levels.

Czechoslovakia was broken into two parts.

Now, decades later, both Russia and Czechia are wealthy again. Russia has many elements of a socialist system with central planning.

But I miss my two countries, as they used to be, and all surveys show that the majority of people there miss them too. I also feel guilty, day and night, for allowing myself to be indoctrinated, to be used, and in a way to betray.

After seeing the world, I understand that what happened to both the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia also happened to many other parts of the world. And right now, the West superpowers are aiming at China by using Hong Kong.

Whenever in China's mainland, whenever in Hong Kong, I keep repeating: Please do not follow our terrible example. Defend your nation! Do not sell it, metaphorically, for some filthy plastic shopping bags. Do not do something that you would regret for the rest of your lives!

How we sold the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia for plastic bags - Chinadaily.com.cn

----------


## sabang

An interesting read- cheers. Other than winning the space race, the Soviets also pipped us in the sexual revolution. Swinging sixties my arse- swinging soviets! But we didn't find that out until later, I always thought as a kid soviet women were big fat strong, ugly things- like bulgarian shotputters (who may or may not have actually been women), hauling potato sacks and dragging carts. Glasnost, Raisa Gorbachev & Anna Kournikova came later.

But I was quicker to the draw than most westerners, having spent a weekend in Moscow in 1982- compliments of Aeroflot. Even sold a pair of fake Levi's there, bought in Penang. And ended up with worthless rubles I couldn't exchange, so it really was a case of the blind robbing the blind. Oh, Russian bread is the best in the world.

----------


## panama hat

> Interesting view behind the Iron Curtain by the one who had lived there


That would be you, right tovarish? 






> Oh, Russian bread is the best in the world.


You haven't travelled much, have you . . .  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## sabang

'Tis the best.

----------


## Klondyke

> worthless rubles I couldn't exchange,


Why you did not buy Sovetskoe Shampanskoye?

----------


## hallelujah

There are some absolute sidesplitters in there:

"I want to say that none of it is new, that the West superpowers already destabilized so many countries and territories, brainwashed tens of millions of young people."

"After seeing the world, I understand that what happened to both the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia also happened to many other parts of the world. And right now, the West superpowers are aiming at China by using Hong Kong.

Whenever in China's mainland, whenever in Hong Kong, I keep repeating: Please do not follow our terrible example. Defend your nation!"

Every time I look at it I find another WTF? paragraph or two:

"Our cinemas were showing masterpieces of Italian, French, Soviet, Japanese cinema. But we were told to demand junk from the US.

The music offering was great, from live to recorded. Almost all music was, actually, available although with some delay, in local stores or even on stage. What was not sold in our stores was nihilist rubbish. But that was precisely what we were told to desire. And we did desire it, and copied it with religious reverence, on our tape recorders. If something was not available, the Western media outlets were shouting that it is a gross violation of free speech."

I wonder where Klongdick has got this piece of revisionist propaganda bullshit from?

Source: "Chinadaily."   :rofl:   :smiley laughing:  :rofl: 

You've posted some absolute nonsense in your time Klongdick, but this could top the lot. Tell the troll factory to send you some better material- sharpish.

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## panama hat

> brainwashed tens of millions of young people."


 . . . luckily in China it was only one billion.

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## hallelujah

> . . . luckily in China it was only one billion.


It's a shame so many people have Klongdick on ignore because that piece is deserving of a wider audience for its absurdity. 

Even by his low standards, its preposterous for anyone who has spent time in the former Soviet Union with people who lived under draconian Soviet rule and brutality where all freedoms were curtailed and every day was a day longing to be in the west.  

Apart from the select few at the top, of course, who were a bit more equal than others in his Socialist utopia.

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## panama hat

> its preposterous for anyone who has spent time in the former Soviet Union


 . . . and China.

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## hallelujah

> An interesting read- cheers. Other than winning the space race, the Soviets also pipped us in the sexual revolution. Swinging sixties my arse- swinging soviets! But we didn't find that out until later, I always thought as a kid soviet women were big fat strong, ugly things- like bulgarian shotputters (who may or may not have actually been women), hauling potato sacks and dragging carts. Glasnost, Raisa Gorbachev & Anna Kournikova came later.
> 
> But I was quicker to the draw than most westerners, having spent a weekend in Moscow in 1982- compliments of Aeroflot. Even sold a pair of fake Levi's there, bought in Penang. And ended up with worthless rubles I couldn't exchange, so it really was a case of the blind robbing the blind. Oh, Russian bread is the best in the world.


The most beautiful women I've ever seen were in Croatia. Behind that would be Romania and the Czech Republic, but I too grew up with the idea of a Bulgarian shotputter because those were the only ones they ever let out of the Bloc!

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## hallelujah

> . . . and China.


I can heartily recommend reading "A Gentleman in Moscow." I don't imagine much of it will be news to you - mass arrests of the intelligentsia, censorship, gulags; just another day in paradise - but it's very well written and hard to put down.

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## panama hat

> I can heartily recommend reading "A Gentleman in Moscow."


Thank you, I will try to find it.  (Still haven't worked our the Kindle when it comes to non-Kindle downloaded books)







> I don't imagine much of it will be news to you - mass arrests of the intelligentsia, censorship, gulags; just another day in paradise - but it's very well written and hard to put down.


Though I was in Moscow with my parents a few times they actually worked at the embassy in Prague, which was a different kettle of fish, not nearly as brutal but still oppressive to the locals

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## hallelujah

It must have been a fascinating experience. The 80s?

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## panama hat

> It must have been a fascinating experience. The 80s?


70s and I only visited them during school holidays, boarding school in Germany usually.  

Yes, lots and lots of stories - not nearly all of them bad . . . one day over a few beers  :Smile: 

(The value of a packet of western cigarettes . . . the second currency)

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## Klondyke

> brainwashed tens of millions of young people.


You (and your friends) are the representative sample how the brainwashing works (and with the age doesn't go away...)

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## Klondyke

> Though I was in Moscow with my parents a few times they actually worked at the embassy in Prague, which was a different kettle of fish, not nearly as brutal but still oppressive to the locals


Actually, from the window of the embassy - and from the embassy car browsing thru the city - one gets surely quite realistic view how the local people (not the diplomats) live, whether they enjoy the life or not, doesn't he?

(BTW, do also the embassy janitors enjoy the diplomatic privileges?)

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## hallelujah

> You (and your friends) are the representative sample how the brainwashing works (and with the age doesn't go away...)


You long past the point of being taken even semi-seriously as someone worthy of debate. 

Now get back to daydreaming about the halcyon days of informing on your neighbours and having them sent to the Gulag, you silly old Commie fool.

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## hallelujah

> Yes, lots and lots of stories - not nearly all of them bad . . . one day over a few beers


Indeed. Although life was clearly difficult for the average Joe, I've always found it amusing to see the way - particularly in the US - that propaganda had many believing that its people were sub-human brutes who ate western schoolchildren for breakfast.  

The truth is that folk the world over are generally good and want few things more than a peaceful life and a bit of fun. You make the best of what you have.

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## panama hat

> Actually


You have zero clue.






> (BTW, do also the embassy janitors enjoy the diplomatic privileges?)


Officially? 

You're embarrassing yourself even more now










> particularly in the US - that propaganda had many believing that its people were sub-human brutes who ate western schoolchildren for breakfast.


Oh, absolutely . . . the whole cold war 'Reds under the beds' nonsense in the US, Hoover with his cross-dressing virulent anti-Communism etc... actors being blackballed if they were or ere thought to be communists - how was that any better?





> The truth is that folk the world over are generally good and want few things more than a peaceful life and a bit of fun. You make the best of what you have.


Sure.  Many had their antennas pointed towards the west to catch West German TV or radio, loved western goods, clothes etc...  One actually felt sorry for them in a way, wanting something but not being able to get it other than through the black market or from the odd tourist from Yugoslavia.

The agent meant to be shadowing my mother ended up helping her carry the shopping home, she had the butcher give him better cuts of meat, having races with our shadows when 'borrowing' my father's Mustang (yea, I know - sigh, he kept the other cars' keys when he went away) with their Škoda outside the city and so on . . . bugs in our walls, greeting the listeners every morning.  My friend, the Bolivian Ambo's son buying a 'detector' in Germany and digging out the listening devices from their walls only to have people evacuate them the next day due to gas leaks . . . they returned to freshly painted walls.  We did that often.   :Smile: 

We never feared them or did we have reason to . . . it was just a job for them

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## harrybarracuda

> Indeed. Although life was clearly difficult for the average Joe, I've always found it amusing to see the way - particularly in the US - that propaganda had many believing that its people were sub-human brutes who ate western schoolchildren for breakfast.  
> 
> The truth is that folk the world over are generally good and want few things more than a peaceful life and a bit of fun. You make the best of what you have.


I don't think propaganda did anything of the kind. It had them being scared of the massive security apparatus that watched their every move, being locked in an information vacuum where they though Elvis Presley was still topping the charts in the '80's, and queuing up for three hours to buy a potato.

Which wasn't far from the fucking truth.

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## OhOh

*Western brand: more than 20 nations possess over 140 Novichok-type substances, Russian Foreign Ministry says     * 

10 Oct, 2020 22:13   / Updated 1 day ago

_"__The notorious Novichok nerve agent described as Russias  lethal weapon has been first presented to the world by Americans and has  since been replicated by 20 of their allies, the Russian Foreign  Ministry said.      
__
The structure of a  substance that has since been known to the world as Novichok has been  first unveiled by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology  back in 1998 on the basis of the data provided by the Pentagon, the  Russian Ministry said on Saturday, replying to yet another damning  statement by the German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas.
_
_Over the  years, the formula was used by Americans and more than 20 other western  nations to produce a cluster of as many as 140 variations of the toxin  that can be attributed to the Novichok group, the ministry said,  adding that the whole lot of them are not covered by the Chemical  Weapons Convention. 
_
_Novichok is a western brand, the ministrys statement said. We do not have it._
_Moscow reminded that all the chemical weapons in its possession were destroyed back in 2017 under rigorous international control overseen by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).
_
_The  statement came in response to a speech Maas delivered in the German  parliament earlier this week. The German minister once again accused  Russia of failing to provide clear answers on the case of Alexey  Navalny, a Russian opposition figure supposedly poisoned by the  notorious nerve agent and subsequently treated in a Berlin clinic. Maas  also threatened Moscow with sanctions over the incident. 
_
_Russia,  in turn, argued that it cannot launch a probe into the case without any  evidence that the alleged poisoning did take place. The ministry  reminded that neither Russian doctors, who saved Navalny's life in the  first crucial hours, nor German doctors, who treated him further, found  any traces of a nerve agent poisoning. Those were only allegedly found  almost a week later by the German military, Moscow added.
_
_Still, Berlin has not so far provided any material evidence substantiating the poisoning narrative to Russia.
_
_Maas stated earlier that traces of Novichok were found in Navalnys  blood in urine by a German military lab as well as by facilities in  France and Sweden. Yet, none of these findings were ever shared with  Moscow despite at least four formal cooperation requests the Russian  Prosecutor Generals Office filed with the German authorities. Berlin is  also reluctant to share any other information related to this case with  Moscow as well, the ministry noted._
_
The German side has  something to explain despite its tenacious unwillingness to do so. Its  earlier excuses are unacceptable. They are unconvincing, the ministry said. 

The  only thing we want is to get legal, technical and organizational  assistance within the bilateral German-Russian [framework] as well as  with the OPCW frameworks to conduct a comprehensive and unbiased  investigation of Navalnys case.
_
_Yet, instead of cooperation, Russia faces aggressive rhetoric and a propagandist attack orchestrated from Germany, the ministry noted. 
_
_Navalny was in coma between August 20 and September 7 after falling  ill on a flight from Siberia to Moscow. He was first hospitalized in the  Russian city of Omsk, where the medics managed to stabilize him but did  not find any traces of any particular poison in his body. Later, he was  transferred to the Berlin's Charité clinic on family's request.
_
_The German authorities then claimed he was targeted in a poisoning attack and demanded Moscow provide some answers  to this case, threatening Moscow with a swift response in the form of  sanctions. Germanys western allies, including the UK, France and the US  also rushed to link the incident to Russia while Navalny himself was  quick to blame Kremlin for the ordeal, without providing any evidence. 
_
_Lately, the OPCW confirmed its specialists found some substances in Navalnys blood and urine that have structural characteristics  similar to those of the Novichok group. Moscow now expects to receive  some information on the case from the international chemical weapons  watchdog. "_

Western brand: more than 20 nations possess over 140 Novichok-type substances, Russian Foreign Ministry says  RT Russia & Former Soviet Union

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## harrybarracuda

HAHAHAHAHAHA Good one.

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## Klondyke

Actually, the Novichok was mistaken. Heard that somebody cried: "Now We Choke"...

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## panama hat

> ‘Western brand’: more than 20 nations possess over 140 ‘Novichok’-type substances, Russian Foreign Ministry says


News just in.  TASS, Pravda and RT report:




> Stalin appears to Putin in a dream and says: “I have two bits of advice for you: kill off all your opponents and paint the Kremlin blue.” 
> Putin asks, “Why blue?” 
> Stalin: "I knew you would not object to the first one."







> Actually, the Novichok was mistaken. Heard that somebody cried: "Now We Choke"...


True, Russians are that primitive

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## OhOh

> TASS, Pravda and RT report:


The messenger or the facts? 

As you chose the messenger to comment on, I will presume your silence on the articles facts, as an agreement with the facts. 

Unless of course you have an alternate fact based report you wish to post.

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## panama hat

> News just in. TASS, Pravda and RT report:





> The messenger or the facts?


The two are incompatible with the aforementioned 'media'

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## harrybarracuda

> The two are incompatible with the aforementioned 'media'


Only hoohoo and his little puppy think Russian state controlled media and fact have anything in common.

 :rofl:

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## Klondyke

> ‘Western brand’: more than 20 nations possess over 140 ‘Novichok’-type substances, Russian Foreign Ministry says


Fortunately, there are so many chemical and biological weapon laboratories around the world to protect the world.   

Many of them are also in the former small Soviet republics, however, no longer supported by the Soviet Big Brother, luckily by others.  

In some of those countries with recently furnished laboratories are the current problems with the "orange revolutions", as e.g. in Kyrgyzstan. 

Hopefully, they will not let the genie out of the bottle...

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## harrybarracuda

And here's the little puppy right on cue.

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## panama hat

> News just in. TASS, Pravda and RT report:





> ‘Western brand’: more than 20 nations possess over 140 ‘Novichok’-type substances, Russian Foreign Ministry says


 . . . and 



> Only hoohoo and his little puppy think Russian state controlled media and fact have anything in common.

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## hallelujah

> I don't think propaganda did anything of the kind. It had them being scared of the massive security apparatus that watched their every move, being locked in an information vacuum where they though Elvis Presley was still topping the charts in the '80's, and queuing up for three hours to buy a potato.
> 
> Which wasn't far from the fucking truth.


I think you've misunderstood me there, Harry. I was referring to Western propaganda during the Cold War - in particular the US - and the effects it had on American citizens. In fact, you still see lasting remnants of it today with the "we will never be a Socialist country" rhetoric of the Trumptards.

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## harrybarracuda

> I think you've misunderstood me there, Harry. I was referring to Western propaganda during the Cold War - in particular the US - and the effects it had on American citizens. In fact, you still see lasting remnants of it today with the "we will never be a Socialist country" rhetoric of the Trumptards.


Like I said, I don't think it was propaganda. Just calling it how it was.

The Russians lived a miserable, entrapped life. Most of them still do.

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## sabang

I doubt they could be as perpetually miserable as you 'arry.  ::chitown::

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## pseudolus

Has anyone pointed out yet that the "lady" this nobody was travelling with was not only his mistress that he was caught with for the first time on this trip to the anger or his wife, but also that that woman is linked nice and tight to SIS? 

Doubt it. 

Bash the rooskies - they are the enemy 

Carry on

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## hallelujah

Bellingcat say Russian FSB hit squad behind the poisoning (and had been trying to give him one of Vlad's special cuppas since July):

Russian FSB hit squad poisoned Alexei Navalny, report says | Alexei Navalny | The Guardian

The men accused of poisoning Alexei Navalny | Alexei Navalny | The Guardian

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## harrybarracuda

> Bellingcat say Russian FSB hit squad behind the poisoning (and had been trying to give him one of Vlad's special cuppas since July):
> 
> Russian FSB hit squad poisoned Alexei Navalny, report says | Alexei Navalny | The Guardian
> 
> The men accused of poisoning Alexei Navalny | Alexei Navalny | The Guardian



Rather stating the obvious.

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## bsnub

Navalny spoke to his would be assassin on the phone for 48 minutes and got a full confession. Unbelievable.  :rofl: 

*"If it Hadn't Been for the Prompt Work of the Medics": FSB Officer Inadvertently Confesses Murder Plot to Navalny*

"If it Hadn't Been for the Prompt Work of the Medics": FSB Officer Inadvertently Confesses Murder Plot to Navalny - bellingcat

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## TheMadBaron

Transcript on Navalny's webpage:
Алексей Навальный  Я позвонил своему убийце. Он во всем признался

Translation: 
Google Translate

"I called my killer. He confessed everything"

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## lom

^^ Russian agent about to "disappear" (no names please)

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## bsnub

> Russian agent about to "disappear"


I wonder how Klondyke and the other Russia apologists are going to try and wiggle out of this one.  :Smile:

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## TheMadBaron

Just imagine that poor fop's next phone call, to his his boss....

"YOU TOLD HIM _WHAT?!!_"

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## bsnub

It seems as if the forums Putin worshipers have fallen silent.  :Smile:

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## panama hat

> ^^ Russian agent about to "disappear" (no names please)


 :rofl: 




> Is al monopolkapitalistikpigdog lies.  
> 
> BENGHADZI
> 
> CHUNTER BIDENS
> 
> HILARRY 
> 
> GUNTAAMO BEY
> ...

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## TheMadBaron

I wonder if the FSB will try to show that the recording was faked, and that every word could have been copied from pre-existing sources. It might be difficult to get the subject to cooperate with the deception, if he thinks that they're going to kill him anyway.

Putin will probably just dismiss the whole thing with a wave of his hand, and carry on with his dirty business as usual.

The average Russian will already be well aware that the state murders its enemies, and will find it amusing that some people believe that our states don't.

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## helge

> I wonder if the FSB will try to show that the recording was faked, and that every word could have been copied from pre-existing sources.


Sounds almost to good to be true

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## Klondyke

A short excerpt from live annual QA with Putin 2 weeks ago - 4.5 hours - similar events we see in other countries, don't we? 

Also to the Russian "chemical weapons" in UK and Germany...

Very sharp questions of BBC reporter Steve Rosenberg - the poor guy got answers he obviously did not like to hear - and his bosses in London either  - similarly like years ago the ol' good John Simpson was not happy what he got answered (BTW, few weeks ago I have placed here the famous shot of his QA, it disappeared democratically within minutes)  

(CC with E - subtitels to be clicked on)

*Putin Owns BBC Journalist: Yes, Compared To You, We Are White And Fluffy Angels!*

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## Klondyke

^And here it is in a shorter version how BBC presents it
(with larger subtitles)

----------


## Klondyke

^ And here a transcript excerpt:

* Putin to the West: Folks, let’s get along!*

17.12.2020 20:54

BBC’s Steve Rosenberg asked Russian President Vladimir Putin whether Putin feels “at least some” responsibility for the deterioration of relations between Russia and the West. The journalist also wondered whether Putin had read the investigation about Navalny.

Russia is warm and fuzzy compared to aggressive West

Putin, without naming Alexei Navalny, called him a “blogger” and noted that Western countries should either give Russia access to data on chemical weapons or come to Russia and deliver Navalny’s biological material.

    “Why don’t they give us the official conclusion about the use of Novichok at least?” Putin asked Rosenberg a counter question. “Are you asking me?” Rosenberg replied. “I am a journalist and I ask questions.”

Putin laughed, apologized and continued: “I feel responsible for what is happening to Russia and its people, and I will do everything in the interests of the state.”

    “As for us being warm and fuzzy. Compared to you, yes, we are! We are warm and fuzzy. We heard assurances that NATO would not be expanding eastward. But you did nothing, shouldn’t we react?  Did we pull out from the missile defense treaty? But we have to react. Our partners pulled out from the treaty on long-range and medium-range missiles. Did we pull out? No. They pulled out from the Open Skies Treaty. What should we do in this regard? You, as a NATO country, will be flying above  us collecting everything? You are smart people, why do you think that we are idiots? Why can’t you calculate elementary things?” Putin said.

Putin reminded that Russia has army bases abroad only in terroristically dangerous areas, while the United States has a huge network of army bases all around the world. Russia is open to cooperation, but the United States wants no negotiations, the head of state said.

“So, who is warm and fuzzy and who is aggressive?” Putin asked and quoted Russian cartoon charter Cat Leopold, addressing the leadership of Western countries: “Folks, let’s get along.”

Russian Media • Putin To The West: Folks, Let's Get Along!

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## OhOh

> bellingcat


Along with BBC.

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## harrybarracuda

I really hope Putin's Parkinsons goes bad quickly.

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## Backspin

> I really hope Putin's Parkinsons goes bad quickly.


Yup because there must be some nice little fuzzy American waiting to take over once he leaves

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## TheMadBaron

Who will replace Putin? – POLITICO

----------


## Backspin

> Navalny spoke to his would be assassin on the phone for 48 minutes and got a full confession. Unbelievable. 
> 
> *"If it Hadn't Been for the Prompt Work of the Medics": FSB Officer Inadvertently Confesses Murder Plot to Navalny*
> 
> "If it Hadn't Been for the Prompt Work of the Medics": FSB Officer Inadvertently Confesses Murder Plot to Navalny - bellingcat


Anyone who believes this total fabrication is a laughingstock. Why would an FSB agent talk on a regular phone line and disclose highly sensitive shit ?

Plus they added the usual bathroom humor to get that reaction from the Western public. In ze underwear.

But before that we were told it was water bottles at the hotel. Then something in the plane. Now this. Story has changed a million fucking times

Yeah. Just like the story about how Russia stole the toilets out of Ukraines patrol boats. It was a total fucking lie. Because some Ukrainian took pictures of the inside after they were returned and nothing was touched

----------


## Backspin

> Who will replace Putin? – POLITICO



Meh. My guess is Sergei Naryshkin will replace him. He has the swagger, the Bond looks. He's being groomed at the FSB just like Putin was.

----------


## TheMadBaron

> Anyone who believes this total fabrication is a laughingstock.


It is possible that this does not mean what you think it means.




> Why would an FSB agent talk on a regular phone line


As opposed to what? A Batphone?




> and disclose highly sensitive shit ?


Perhaps because  Nikolai Patrushev's number appeared on Kudryavtsev's display, and Kudryavtsev believed he was talking to one of Patrushev's aides?




> Plus they added the usual bathroom humor to get that reaction from the Western public. In ze underwear.


Yes, of course - when trying to frame an innocent party for attempting to murder you, it is very important to make your evidence read like an episode of _'Allo 'Allo!_ 
Otherwise, no-one will ever take you seriously.




> But before that we were told it was water bottles at the hotel. Then something in the plane. Now this. Story has changed a million fucking times


Yes, it's almost as if the people who committed the crime know more about how they did it than anybody else.




> Yeah. Just like the story about how Russia stole the toilets out of Ukraines patrol boats. It was a total fucking lie. Because some Ukrainian took pictures of the inside after they were returned and nothing was touched


Yes, just exactly like that, only a bit murderyer.

----------


## Backspin

^ It's called a burner phone , Jesus. So no. The FSB would not have called Navalny himself on a traceable phone.

But if you believe this , you probably also believed the official story that the 2 alleged Salisbury assassins flew direct , from Moscow to the UK, on Aeroflot. Russia's national carrier.





Burner phones are disposable mobile phones that provide additional security and anonymity. You’ve likely become familiar with them being utilized in any number of Hollywood films where nefarious individuals participating in organized crime found them to be quite useful.

----------


## TheMadBaron

> The FSB would not have called Navalny himself on a traceable phone.


The FSB didn't call Navalny; Navalny called Kudryavtsev. Try reading the article first, and then profferring the moonstruck conspiracy theory.

----------


## bsnub

> Try reading the article first, and then profferring the moonstruck conspiracy theory.


You are wasting your time with a moron like backspin/skidmark. Not only is he insufferably stupid, but he is also a Kremlin kool aid drinker. There is a reason he is a member of the TD retard club.

----------


## Klondyke

> I really hope Putin's Parkinsons goes bad quickly.


That's why he did his annual QA show in 4.5 hour instead of 5 as usually. Just in 4.51 he started to shake incredibly...

(How heart-breaking thoughts of our MoD...  And., as usually, he did not disappoint us... And as he rightly assumed I will not disappoint him either...)

----------

