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## Looper

New figures show Chinese investment in Australia is continuing to plummet as distrust between the two countries grows and companies from the mainland turn towards emerging markets.
Key points:

    Investors laid out $2.5 billion dollars in 2019, roughly half of what they spent in 2018
    An ANU professor says investors are viewing Australia as a more difficult place to invest
    He says it is likely new Australian government regulatory barriers are deterring investors

The Australian National Universitys Chinese Investment in Australia (CHIIA) database shows investors laid out just $2.5 billion in 2019, roughly half of the $4.8 billion they spent in 2018.

Chinese investment in Australia peaked at almost $16 billion in 2016 but has nosedived since then.
China's beef ban is straight from Beijing's punishment playbook

The Morrison Government seems to be betting that all it needs to do is hold its nerve and hold the line when it comes to China's trade threats.
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There were big falls across most sectors in 2019, including real estate, mining and manufacturing. Investment in agriculture collapsed but picked up slightly in both the construction and finance sectors.

The leader of the database project, ANU professor Peter Drysdale, said there was no single explanation for the precipitous decline.

Chinese companies are increasingly focused on developing markets and Beijing is trying to stem the flow of capital offshore, with foreign direct investment from China dropping globally by almost 10 per cent in 2019.

The drop in Australia has been much sharper, partly because the mining boom  which brought heavy flows of investment from China  has now tailed off. 

But Professor Drysdale said Chinese investors were also turning away from Australia because of new regulatory barriers thrown up by the Government. 

    "Chinese investors now view Australia as a more difficult place to invest in now, there's no question about that," he said.

There have been a series of intense political controversies over Chinese investment in Australia in recent years, and the Federal Government has intensified its scrutiny of foreign investment more broadly.
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Can the big miners avoid being caught in the new cold war between Australia and China?

Earlier this year, Treasurer Josh Frydenberg introduced new restrictions designed to stop overseas companies from targeting distressed Australian assets hit by the economic impact of the coronavirus pandemic.

The biggest transaction recorded by CHIIA in 2019 was the Mengniu Dairy Company's acquisition of infant formula maker Bellamy's Australia for $1.5 billion.

But last month Mr Frydenberg effectively blocked Mengniu Dairy from buying Australian company Lion Dairy and Drinks, saying the deal would be "contrary to the national interest".

The political relationship between Australia and China has also become increasingly rancorous, with the two countries mired in a series of disputes over foreign interference, the intimidation of Australian journalists in China, cyber espionage, trade, Hong Kong and the COVID-19 outbreak.

Professor Drysdale said he expected future figures would show Chinese investment in Australia falling even further in 2020.

"In fact, the numbers we see coming in so far in the work we are doing suggest there has been a drop away again this year, so this trend is certainly continuing," he said.

https://www.abc.net. au/news/2020-09-13/chinese-investment-in-australia-takes-nosedive/12657140

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## Looper

*China puts Australia on notice over wheat exports*Australian wheat producers have been dragged into the growing political and trade tussle between Canberra and Beijing, after China warned it would put Australian exports under the microscope.

Key points:

    China says it will apply "enhanced inspection" of shipments of wheat arriving from Australia
    Australian has already sold more than dozen wheats shipments worth almost $250 million
    In May, China applied an 80 per cent tariff on Australia's barley exports which were worth $1.6 billion a year.

In the latest sign of souring relations between the two countries, China's General Administration of Customs has issued a notice in the past two weeks saying it will apply "enhanced inspection" efforts on shipments of Australian wheat.

It comes at a delicate time for wheat growers, who are believed to have forward-sold more than a dozen shipments to China for December and January worth almost $250 million.

In May, Australia's barley trade with China — once worth $1.6 billion a year — was all but destroyed after Beijing imposed crippling 80 per cent tariffs.
'Huge concern'

Nick Carracher, chief executive of Geelong-based market analyst Lachstock Consulting, said the decision by China was worrying given the value and volume of wheat already sold.

He said the move appeared to be political given China's need for feed grain and the dwindling nature of its own reserves.
Iron ore out of bounds

China has targeted everything from Australian barley to coal, wine to tourists and students, but it isn't likely to come after our biggest export, iron ore. Ian Verrender explains why.
Read more

It also had echoes of Beijing's decision to reject barley shipments sent by giant WA grain handler CBH on grounds the vessels were contaminated with "pests", he added.

"It's obviously going to be a huge concern to those people who have forward business in China, the implications for the vessels that haven't unloaded yet.

"But one thing that is very clear is that China has this increased willingness to scrutineer the vessels that are coming in.

"It's definitely a very nervous time for the guys that have got forward business on."
Barley bigger export than wheat

According to Mr Carracher, while the Australian wheat trade with China had been smaller than exports of barley in recent years, activity had been picking up ahead of this year's harvest.

Despite minimal flows last year in the face of severe drought in the eastern States, exports amounted to about $300 million in 2017-18 and almost $500 million in 2016-17.

CBH, Australia's biggest grain handler, declined a request for an interview.

Instead, the co-operative issued a statement in which it said: "The CBH Group is confident that the grain we export from Western Australia meets all Australian phytosanitary export requirements, whether it is barley, wheat or other products."

Grain Producers Australia chairman Andrew Weidemann said the news was no surprise given events earlier this month.
Find more rural news

    See the latest news and information from the agriculture and mining industries, including weather and the markets, on ABC Rural.

"This is not unexpected that they would heighten their increased surveillance on any grain, or any producer really, transferring from Australia to China at the moment," Mr Weidemann said.

"I think the trade (participants) are well aware of the current political environment between Australia and China and are looking to export (grain) as well as they can within tolerance."

Mr Weidemann said it was always concerning when there were problems with trading partners but he expected Australian grain arriving in China to meet quality controls.

He said issues had previously arisen because of differences in sampling techniques and suggested harmonising the countries' approaches could help avoid problems in the future.

"We have flagged doing a research project with the Chinese around snails that, unfortunately, has been lost with all of the discussions we've been having recently around the trade of barley and tariffs between our two countries," he said.

Federal Agriculture Minister David Littleproud has been contacted for comment.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/rural/2020-09-14/china-put-australia-on-notice-over-wheat-exports/12661710

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## Looper

*Chinese database collects information on thousands of Australians, from PMs to pop stars*

What do Prime Minister Scott Morrison, tech billionaire Mike Cannon-Brookes and pop star Natalie Imbruglia have in common?

Each of them is the subject of entries in a vast database of people's personal information, compiled by a company with links to the Chinese Government.

Revelations of the database have raised further questions about the extent of China's global surveillance operations, and concerns for the privacy of the more than 35,000 Australians who appear in it.

And cyber-security experts say the leak contains lessons for us all.
So what exactly does this database contain?

The database was put together by Zhenhua Data, whose main clients include the Chinese Communist Party and the People's Liberation Army.

It has 2.4 million entries, of which just over 10 per cent were accessed and restored by cyber security experts from Canberra company Internet 2.0, which was handed a leaked version of the database.

The 250,000 restored entries include 35,558 relating to Australians, with details including dates of birth, addresses, marital status, relatives, criminal records and political associations.
OKIDB homepage
Zhenhua Data's vast database has explicit references to use by military intelligence.(Supplied.)

The restored entries also include profiles of citizens from the US, the UK, India, Indonesia, Canada, Malaysia, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea.

In some instances the profiles include news articles about the subject, images, and social media handles.

But Rachel Falk from the Cyber Security Cooperative Research Centre said more concerning was the fact some profiles appeared to draw on confidential bank records, job applications and psychological profiles.

    "You have to ask how they did get hold of that? I don't quite know," she said.

Who has been affected?

Several prominent figures are among the 35,000 Australians discovered in the restored part of the leaked database, including state and federal politicians, military officers, diplomats, academics, civil servants, business executives, engineers, journalists, lawyers and accountants.

It's not clear how people were selected for entry into the database.

Current and former prime ministers are on the list, as well as leading businessman David Gonski, Jennifer Westacott from the Business Council of Australia, and the billionaire founders of tech company Atlassian, Scott Farquhar and Mike Cannon-Brookes.
David Gonski with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull
David Gonski is among the thousands of Australians in the database.(AAP: Joel Carrett)

More than 650 Australians in the database are listed as being of "special interest" or "politically exposed". However, it isn't known how the company defines those terms, and there's no suggestion anybody on that list has done anything wrong.

Among people on that list are the aforementioned pop star Natalie Imbruglia, Victorian Supreme Court Judge Anthony Cavanough, retired Navy admiral and former Lockheed Martin chief executive Raydon Gates, former ambassador to China Geoff Raby, former Tasmanian premier Tony Rundle and former NSW premier and federal foreign minister Bob Carr.

Also included are One Nation co-founder David Oldfield, National Party President Larry Anthony, former treasurer Peter Costello's son Sebastian, ex-Labor MP Emma Husar, News Corp journalist Ellen Whinnett and rural businesswoman and ABC director Georgie Somerset.
How did Zhenhua get hold of all this information?

Much of the information could have been collected through open source techniques, as it is often freely available online.

It leaves open the possibility much of the data could have been collected by simply trawling through publicly available data.

"It seems to be that the database is comprised of what we call open source data. That comes from social media sites, it could be from news sites and blog sites," Ms Falk said.

"Certainly what was concerning was the allegations of psychometric reports or financial information, and that is not information that should be freely available on any open source web search."
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Professor Clive Hamilton says the wide range of people named is concerning

Cyber security expert Clive Hamilton, from Charles Sturt University, said Zhenhua may have been collecting the information from inside Australia.

"The company  boasts that it has 20 information collection centres spread around the world," he said.

"This suggests that there's almost certainly one in Australia. So that means somewhere in Australia, there is a Chinese state-owned company that is sucking up data from across Australia and feeding it into China's intelligence service."

But Ms Falk said she was unsure that would be necessary.

"The worldwide web is worldwide  so there is no reason to suggest they would need to be located in Australia at all," she said.
Why would they want to do this?

Ms Falk said there could be several motivations behind collecting the data.

    "It could simply be to match up who knows whom, who does what, to compile a dossier on certain people," she said.

"It could be to see or determine the vulnerabilities, it could be used by others to phish or to gain access to them, so send them an email to gain access to a system."

She said some of the data collected would be invaluable to cyber criminals if it fell into the wrong hands.

"That list would be incredibly valuable to see what people's potential vulnerabilities will be, or their interests might be," she said.

"There could be a range of sinister and benign reasons, some of which we may not know for some time."

Given so much of the data appeared to have been collated from social media and other public sources, Ms Falk said the leak contained a lesson for all Australians.

"I think [it's] a wake-up call that whenever you post information on a website, or openly on social media, it is one global 'trash and treasure'," she said.

    "One person's trash in data, may be somebody else's treasure.

"If you post information for everyone to read, you have to expect that many people will read it."

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-09-14/china-database-scott-morrison-cannon-brookes-imbruglia/12661696?section=politics

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## harrybarracuda

> "There could be a range of sinister and benign reasons"


Ranging from very sinister to extremely sinister, you dumb bitch.

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## docmartin

They just don't want to forget our birthdays.  How sweet.

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## sabang

> A representative of Zhenhua Data told the Guardian that a database, known as the Overseas Key Information Database, did exist but that it was not as magical as suggested in foreign media reports because it simply connected individuals to the social media they used.
> 
> 
> With some Australian-based analysts also questioning the significance of the leaked materials, Potter conceded that most of the data was based on material openly available on platforms such as Twitter, Facebook, Crunchbase and LinkedIn.
> 
> But collecting vast troves of data in this way raised important questions, he said. Open source doesnt necessarily mean people want it to be public,


I suppose that's the crux of the issue. Is your publicly available Data mined? Well jeez, Einstein- ever wondered why your mobile seems to mysteriously know where you been shopping lately, or are those advertisers a coincidence? Of course when the Chinese do it, it is sinister- I mean gotta be, innit? For everyone else though (oh, except Russia) it's OK. Well that's a long list of entities mining your Data- and there is nothing illegal about it. Predictable that it takes a simple playing of the China card for it to register with people.

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## tomcat

> Of course when the Chinese do it, it is sinister


...of course: why do it if not to profit Greater China...

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## sabang

Ummm, possibly to make some guys rich?

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## tomcat

> possibly to make some guys rich?


...yep: and those guys know who and how to thank those that enabled them...

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## panama hat

> Ummm, possibly to make some guys rich?


Surely you're not suggesting that there is a disconnect between wealth and the communist dictatorship in China

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## sabang

You are sounding as absurd as Mike Pompeo. So the Chinese have no profit motive, say our seasoned TD Asian expat brigade*. ROFL 




_*On their way to the ATM to get some $ from a [Chinese owned] bank, to go to the [Chinese owned] shopping mall, and shop at a [Chinese owned] supermarket to buy some booze from a [Chinese owned] brewery




_You guys crack me up.  :Smile:

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## tomcat

> You guys crack me up


...none so blind as those...etc...

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## docmartin

If the Chinese have a good memory and are playing a long game, they'll be remembering the West forcing their way into the country and the British insisting on the right to addict many people to opium, the Japanese pushing their way in for bayonet practice in Nanjing and so on.
Hopefully vengeance isn't a thing in China .....

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## sabang

They have a very good memory. The 'Century of Humiliation' is embedded into Chinese consciousness.

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## panama hat

> You are sounding as absurd as Mike Pompeo. So the Chinese have no profit motive, say our seasoned TD Asian expat brigade*. ROFL


My politics are hardly in the same ballpark as Pompeo but it shows your desperation in justifying a repressive regime's motives and being an apologist for mass-incarceration and torture.

See how the broad brush works, sabang?   You're clearly a communist sympathiser - you must be if your opinion coincides with the communist regime, right?  Right.






> They have a very good memory. The 'Century of Humiliation' is embedded into Chinese consciousness.


Who is this 'they'?  You mean the communist leadership that keeps raising the so-called 'century of humiliation'  to further their own means?  To dredge up whenever the murderous regime needs to show its hypocrisy?

Or do you mean the 1.4 billion Chinese, in which case you're really stretching it

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## harrybarracuda

If you think this is being done solely for the profit motive, your understanding of the chinese state intelligence machine is somewhat limited.

They'll be looking for every pattern they can to cross-reference anyone who has *ever* said anything critical about Chinastan with every single person with whom they have contact.

Then pass that information to their intelligence services to start the targeted phishing et al.

They have by far the largest state-controlled hacking apparatus on the planet, makes even Russia's look tame.

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## sabang

> They have by far the largest state-controlled hacking apparatus on the planet,


Nope, the largest State controlled intelligence gathering & hacking apparatus is the USA, by far.

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## harrybarracuda

> Nope, the largest State controlled intelligence gathering & hacking apparatus is the USA, by far.


Is this a topic you cover in detail while doing your TEFL training?

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## panama hat

> Nope, the largest State controlled intelligence gathering & hacking apparatus is the USA, by far.


Where you get this 'fact' would be interesting

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## sabang

Just look at the budgets of the combined US intelligence agencies, and that doesn't even include MI. The NSA alone would dwarf Chinese spending.

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## panama hat

Except its not about spending alone, is it.  


So, no facts to substantiate your claim?

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## harrybarracuda

> Just look at the budgets of the combined US intelligence agencies, and that doesn't even include MI. The NSA alone would dwarf Chinese spending.


If you even knew what that budget went on it would be one thing, but given that you have no idea of the amount the chinkies spend and the size of their state intelligence apparatus, you are doing what is known in the trade as "pissing to the wind".

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## harrybarracuda

As a rough guide the US are responsible for about 10% of the world's cyberattacks.

They are second.

China is responsible for more than 40%.

They are top by a country mile.

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## sabang

No one knows, exactly. But it is certainly north of $80bn pa. 

*The Intelligence Budget*The United States has 17 separate intelligence agencies. In addition to the DHS Office of Intelligence and Analysis and the FBI, mentioned above, they are the CIA; the National Security Agency; the Defense Intelligence Agency; the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research; the Drug Enforcement Agency’s Office of National Security Intelligence; the Treasury Department’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis; the Department of Energy’s Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence; the National Reconnaissance Office; the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency; Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance; the Army’s Intelligence and Security Command; the Office of Naval Intelligence; Marine Corps Intelligence; and Coast Guard Intelligence. And then there’s that 17th one, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, set up to coordinate the activities of the other 16.


We know remarkably little about the nature of the nation’s intelligence spending, other than its supposed total, released in a report every year. By now, it’s more than $80 billion. The bulk of this funding, including for the CIA and NSA, is believed to be hidden under obscure line items in the Pentagon budget. Since intelligence spending is not a separate funding stream, it’s not counted in our tally below (though, for all we know, some of it should be).
*Intelligence Budget total: $80 billion*Making Sense of the $1.25 Trillion National Security State Budget

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## OhOh

> those guys know who and how to thank those that enabled them


1. Campaign contributions
2. Ensuring any "facts" that those who are deemed untouchable are not reported or buried.




> As a rough guide the US are responsible for about 10% of the world's cyberattacks.
> 
> They are second.
> 
> China is responsible for more than 40%.





> Where you get this 'fact' would be interesting


 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## harrybarracuda

> 1. Campaign contributions
> 2. Ensuring any "facts" that those who are deemed untouchable are not reported or buried.


Poor old HooHoo gets in a snit every time his beloved chinkies are exposed for the scum they are.

One word: Akamai.

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## harrybarracuda

> No one knows, exactly. But it is certainly north of $80bn pa. 
> 
> *The Intelligence Budget*
> 
> The United States has 17 separate intelligence agencies. In addition to the DHS Office of Intelligence and Analysis and the FBI, mentioned above, they are the CIA; the National Security Agency; the Defense Intelligence Agency; the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research; the Drug Enforcement Agency’s Office of National Security Intelligence; the Treasury Department’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis; the Department of Energy’s Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence; the National Reconnaissance Office; the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency; Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance; the Army’s Intelligence and Security Command; the Office of Naval Intelligence; Marine Corps Intelligence; and Coast Guard Intelligence. And then there’s that 17th one, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, set up to coordinate the activities of the other 16.
> 
> 
> We know remarkably little about the nature of the nation’s intelligence spending, other than its supposed total, released in a report every year. By now, it’s more than $80 billion. The bulk of this funding, including for the CIA and NSA, is believed to be hidden under obscure line items in the Pentagon budget. Since intelligence spending is not a separate funding stream, it’s not counted in our tally below (though, for all we know, some of it should be).
> *Intelligence Budget total: $80 billion*
> ...


So what?

What does that have to do with criminal cyber attacks?

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## Backspin

> Poor old HooHoo gets in a snit every time his beloved chinkies are exposed for the scum they are.
> 
> One word: Akamai.


China accounts for more trade with Australia than Japan , US and S.korea combined

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## panama hat

> China accounts for more trade with Australia than Japan , US and S.korea combined


 . . . and . . . ?


Oh, you googled trade numbers.  Well done.  


This is fun, let me try:

Australia exports more crude petroleum to India than to China



Do I get a 'well done', Skidmark?

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## Backspin

> . . . and . . . ?
> 
> 
> Oh, you googled trade numbers.  Well done.  
> 
> 
> This is fun, let me try:
> 
> Australia exports more crude petroleum to India than to China
> ...


Actually no. I didn't just Google the numbers. I know all about this shit. I know all about this finance and economics shit. I was spending most of my online time in the finance/econ blogs and finance Twitter. But I wanted to take a break from it. Which is why I'm posting more often on TD.

Anyway Australia finds itself in a very unorthodox situation. If it had any sense  , it would play the US and China the way Thailand and Philippines are playing it. They aren't  being pushover lapdogs for the US.

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## panama hat

> China accounts for more trade with Australia than Japan , US and S.korea combined





> Oh, you googled trade numbers. Well done.





> Actually no. I didn't just Google the numbers. I know all about this shit.


Impressive . . . what is the GDP of the Matagalpa Region in Nicaragua?  No googling now.  :Smile: 





> I know all about this finance and economics shit.


Ok . . . 




> They aren't being pushover lapdogs for the US.


And neither is Australia (you'd better check with the two examples you noted, though).  Australia has its own standards that direct its trade policies - some coincide with that of the US, some don't.

Your over-simplification is amusing . . . 



> I know all about this shit.

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## docmartin

> I know all about this finance and economics shit.


Sounds like something the donald would utter.

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## sabang

Well, I think every rational person should consider what puts food on your plate. 46% of aussie exports go to China. So lets pick a fight with them, and be The donalds pathetic dept'y Sheriff. Yeh, real smart.  :smiley laughing:

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## harrybarracuda

> Well, I think every rational person should consider what puts food on your plate. 46% of aussie exports go to China. So lets pick a fight with them, and be The donalds pathetic dept'y Sheriff. Yeh, real smart.


So Australia should just roll over and let the chinkies do what they want.

Another chinky apologist.

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## AntRobertson

Reminds me of this I saw wee while back, didn't read it at all it just made me giggle:

Chinese newspaper claims Australia becoming 'poor white trash of Asia' - NZ Herald

*Chinese newspaper claims Australia becoming 'poorwhite trash of Asia'* :rofl:

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## panama hat

> lets pick a fight with them


A) You're a Brit
B) China picked the fight







> So Australia should just roll over and let the chinkies do what they want.


As per sabang, same as the protestors in HK . . .

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## docmartin

Poor white trash. Hmmmph. 
That’s poor multicultural trash thank you. 
And not an original line either.

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## panama hat

> Poor white trash. Hmmmph.
> That’s poor multicultural trash thank you.
> And not an original line either.


A nice bit of racism thrown in . . . imagine The Age or the SMH publishing an article about the Poor Yellow trash of Asia . . . oh, how they would howl with feigned indignation and the government would remind the world how China suffered and was humiliated for 110 years . . . as they always do.

At the end of the day there shouldn't be any reason for Chinese to want to escape, errrr, emigrate to Oz . . . by the hundreds of thousands

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## Latindancer

^ You're speaking the truth there.

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## sabang

Well this should make you feel better- Chinese investment in oz real estate has dropped by close to 50% over the last year. As for the drop in Uni students, no problem- we'll just replace them with Somalians.  ::chitown::

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## panama hat

> Chinese investment in oz real estate has dropped by close to 50% over the last year


Good, if true






> As for the drop in Uni students, no problem- we'll just replace them with Somalians.


Because Somalis are the only other foreign students.  You're losing it, sabang.

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## harrybarracuda

Petulant chinky wankers.... their childish rhetoric is quite hilarious.

And shame on the kow-towing uni administrators for grovelling to the whiny bastards.




> BRISBANE, Australia: An Australian university student who has never visited China and has only a modest social media following would seem an unlikely target for the Chinese government.
> 
> But when a foreign ministry spokesman personally denounced Drew Pavlou at a recent press conference, it was just the next phase in an extraordinary campaign against the 21-year-old that has fuelled concerns over China's targeting of critics overseas.
> 
> Pavlou first placed himself in the superpower's sights when he organised a small sit-in the University of Queensland, where he studied, in July last year to protest against various Chinese government policies.
> 
> Since then, the Global Times,  a nationalist state-run tabloid, has published a series of articles branding him an "anti-China rioter" and portraying him as the face of alleged anti-Chinese racism in Australia.
> 
> Pavlou, a philosophy student, said he had also received death threats after one of China's envoys in Australia labelled him a "separatist".
> ...




Young Australian an unlikely target for China's fury

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## Looper

*Fears for Australians in China after Chinese consul named in AFP warrant over political interference investigation*

A former senior Defence official and diplomat is calling for urgent action to protect Australians in China, in response to the ABC's revelations Australian police identified a Chinese consular official in a foreign interference investigation.


Key points:

    A former diplomat has warned Australians in China may not be safe after a Chinese consular official was named in AFP warrants
    Emails, messages and phone call lists involving Chinese diplomats were accessed as part of the investigation into political interference
    The former diplomat, Allan Behm, says Australia's diplomacy with China is "in the pits" and requires urgent action

The ABC has revealed search warrants identify Chinese consul to Sydney, Sun Yantao, in connection with an investigation by the Australian Federal Police (AFP) and spy agency ASIO into an alleged plot by Beijing to infiltrate the New South Wales Labor Party.

Mr Sun is responsible for managing relations with the Chinese diaspora and pro-Beijing organisations in Australia, and coordinating with China's foreign influence agency, the United Front Work Department.

Former diplomat and senior Defence official Allan Behm, who was also a federal government foreign policy adviser, said the move would worsen the diplomatic crisis between Australia and China.

"The Australian Government needs to act right now," said Mr Behm, who is head of the international and security program at the Australia Institute.

"It needs to warn Australians who are in China that they must be extremely careful  that they must do nothing that attracts attention or that might otherwise provoke the Chinese Government.

    "If they have no real reason for conducting business in China at the moment, they would be pretty well advised to return to Australia."

Speaking to ABC News, Trade Minister Simon Birmingham said the investigation was focused on Australian citizens, suggesting consular officials such as Mr Sun would not be prosecuted.

"My understanding is that investigations that might be underway relate very much to potential foreign interference activities by publicised figures, who have been identified in the media, who are Australians," he said.

The joint investigation by the AFP and ASIO centres on John Zhisen Zhang, a policy adviser to NSW Upper House Labor MP Shaoquett Moselmane.

The ABC revealed last night Mr Zhang's emails, messages and records of phone calls with top-level Chinese diplomats had been accessed by authorities when they seized his laptops and phones in raids in June.
One man in a gold jacket and two men wearing suits and ties standing on stage in front of red banner
John Zhang, Shaoquett Moselmane and consul Sun Yantao at a Sydney event to mark the 2017 Chinese New Year.(Supplied)

The investigation is understood to have fed into the deepening diplomatic crisis between Australia and China, which earlier this month saw two Australian journalists, the ABC's correspondent Bill Birtles and Australian Financial Review journalist Michael Smith, evacuated from China.

Australian TV anchor Cheng Lei was arrested in Beijing last month and has not been seen publicly since.
Australians left in China could be subject to investigations
Man in suit and tie reclines in chair in boardroom with hand on wooden table and closed window blinds behind him
Allan Behm, from the Australia Institute, served as an adviser and speechwriter for Penny Wong.(ABC News: Adam Kennedy)

The Federal Government recently warned Australians they are "at risk of arbitrary detention" in China.

Mr Behm, a former adviser to Labor's Penny Wong when she was foreign minister, said the latest developments in the foreign interference investigation represented a "very significant moment" in the relationship between the two countries.

"Australians who are resident in China, they could also become subject to all sorts of investigations and visits," he said.

"The Chinese Government doesn't sit down when other governments undertake what it regards as provocation. So we can expect that they will retaliate in one form or another."
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He believes identifying Mr Sun in the AFP warrants represents a major step by Australian authorities, but questions whether the Federal Government has a diplomatic strategy to manage the potential fallout.
Man in suit stands on stage behind podium with large blue graphic screen behind him
Consul Sun Yantao speaking at a Gala Dinner in Sydney in 2019(Supplied)

"It is a very big move to identify by name a Chinese diplomat, particularly the consul in Sydney, in a warrant, and it's an even bigger moment when that warrant becomes public information," he said.

    "I doubt that there was very much at all by way of serious diplomatic consideration given to this  it looks very much like action without a plan.

At midnight, Chinese State Security police knocked on ABC journalist Bill Birtles' door.
A man smiles and waves his left hand while holding a disposable face mask.

He realised he was no longer safe in China. Read Birtles' account of the night he had to pack up his life and leave the country.
Read more

"At the moment, Australia's diplomacy with respect to China is absolutely in the pits. It is high time that the Australian Government listened carefully to its diplomats and actually builds a proper diplomatic policy and a strategic plan in the management of our relationship with China."

The Chinese consulate-general in Sydney has reacted angrily to the news of its consul Mr Sun being named in the AFP warrants, saying in a statement that accusations it "engaged in infiltration activities are totally baseless and nothing but vicious slanders".

"The Chinese consulate-general  always observes international law and basic norms of international relations while exercising duties in Australia," it said.
Messages, emails and phone call lists accessed
A graphic of four photos of Chinese individuals, including three men and one woman.
Chinese scholars Li Jianjun (top left) and Chen Hong (top right) and media officials Li Dayong (bottom left) and Tao Shelan (bottom right) were targeted in the investigation.(Supplied)

Last week, ABC Investigations reported senior Chinese media officials in Australia had been targeted and the visas of two leading Chinese scholars had been revoked as part of the investigation.

The homes of four Sydney-based Chinese journalists were also raided in June, prompting Chinese state media to declare Australia had "severely infring[ed] on the legitimate rights of Chinese journalists".

Yesterday it was revealed the man at the heart of the investigation, Mr Zhang, had accused Australian authorities of breaching Australian and international law by intercepting his communications with China's top-level diplomats and their families in Australia.
Two men wearing suits stand in busy street with many people behind them
Shaoquett Moselmane and John Zhang at a street festival.(Facebook)

Mr Zhang, who has advised Mr Moselmane since 2018, formally complained to Australian Federal Government ministers his phone and computer were searched at Sydney Airport in January after he and his family arrived back from China, as well as in June during raids on his home and office.

Those devices contained emails, messages and records of calls with Chinese diplomatic and consular officials and some of their family members.

Mr Zhang's written complaints accuse the ABF and AFP of breaching two of the most sacred international treaties enshrined in Australian law  the Vienna conventions on diplomatic and consular relations  which protect the communications of diplomatic officials.
Two men in suits stand in lavish dining room with chandelier and red curtain visible behind.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison and John Zhang at an event in 2018.(Supplied)

The AFP suspects Mr Zhang and his alleged accomplices broke Australia's foreign interference laws, alleging they chatted with Mr Moselmane in a "covert" social media group and concealed they were collaborating with China's leading espionage and foreign influence agencies.

Mr Zhang could face up to 15 years in jail if charged and convicted of foreign interference.

Both he and Mr Moselmane deny any wrongdoing.

The Home Affairs Department and the AFP have declined to comment.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-09-16/australia-china-diplomatic-crisis-after-consul-named-in-warrant/12668424

----------


## harrybarracuda

For sure the chinkies will pick some random Aussie in Chinastan and accuse them of spying or some shit in their usual bully-boy tit-for-tat response.

----------


## Backspin

> Well, I think every rational person should consider what puts food on your plate. 46% of aussie exports go to China. So lets pick a fight with them, and be The donalds pathetic dept'y Sheriff. Yeh, real smart.


Exactly. It's insane. It's amazing how out of balance it is.S.korea Japan and the US aren't small economies. But China still trumps them combined

----------


## Backspin

> So Australia should just roll over and let the chinkies do what they want.
> 
> Another chinky apologist.


Do what Thailand and Phillipines are doing. At the very least , keep it respectful

----------


## panama hat

> Exactly. It's insane. It's amazing how out of balance it is.S.korea Japan and the US aren't small economies. But China still trumps them combined


And again - your point is? 




> Do what Thailand and Phillipines are doing. At the very least , keep it respectful


Respectful?  How did Australia disrespect China?  At the very least it's the other way around




> For sure the chinkies will pick some random Aussie in Chinastan and accuse them of spying or some shit in their usual bully-boy tit-for-tat response.


Like the Canadians arrested after Canada detained the Huawei CFO.

That's respectful

----------


## sabang

> A) You're a Brit


Ex Australian naval officer too, and obviously an aussie citizen. Somehow can't imagine you ever did time in the Armed forces of any country!  :France: 





> How did Australia disrespect China?

----------


## panama hat

> Somehow can't imagine you ever did time in the Armed forces of any country!


As mentioned previously to helge, I have, I just don't feel the need to big myself so your imagination is as pallid as your content . . . so the 'facepalm' can be applied to you twice, but keep using those memes to illustrate your point instead.

----------


## Switch

Australia is being brave or stupid. Not sure which, but I don’t see it as a fair fight anyway. The Chinese inherent philosophy is to beat the enemy with a bigger stick. Australia prefers to follow the roots of a British system of diplomacy.
its worth reminding Australia that, despite many fine qualities, it lacks history, especially in diplomacy and single minded belligerence. Such belligerence was consigned to the British scrap heap during the death of the empire. Australia, while following the Brit MO, does not have British history of shedding big mistakes to fall back on.
I suspect this lack of history will be their downfall in the long run. China can afford to drop Oz, but the opposite is not true. It will end badly, unless Australia learns diplomacy and patience, or they buy bigger sticks (unlikely).

----------


## docmartin

If China does pull the plug on Australian imports there may be grim economic effects and an outbreak of horrible racism directed at people of Asian appearance. 
It was bad enough to worry about my wife in shops during the initial Covid outbreak (never was an issue thank goodness).

----------


## sabang

IMO, it is being ignorant and cowardly by taking cheap political potshots, while cowering behind Auntie Sams petticoat. And of course any incendiary political comments are amplified by the (mostly) Murdoch press. Neither put food on your pampered plate, Australia.

One thing rarely being taken into account is the effect it is having on other Asian people too, such as the young Vietnamese lady assaulted by thugs in Sydney, because Covid. Australia risks losing it's reputation as a friendly, safe destination for Asian students, holidaymakers and prospective residents & investors. It has already damaged it's vital trade links with China- and frankly, if it gets worse, you ain't seen nothing yet. Not real smart.

----------


## tomcat

> and frankly, if it gets worse, you ain't seen nothing yet.


...if it gets worse, it will be due to China's imperial fantasies, not Australia's efforts to defend itself against overt and persistent economic bullying, threats and insidious hacking...

----------


## docmartin

And if it gets worse it will also be due to ignorant hillbilly Australians that have no idea.

----------


## Latindancer

^ Exactly. 

 But I think that we have seen it about as bad as it will get. There will always be ignorant bogans and there will never be a complete absence of their atrocious behaviour towards foreigners, but there are so many Asians and other foreigners here in Oz that there will be a limit to it.

The authorities are quick to act and many people take videos of it with their phones, to name and shame later.

----------


## panama hat

> IMO, it is being ignorant and cowardly by taking cheap political potshots, while cowering behind Auntie Sams petticoat. And of course any incendiary political comments are amplified by the (mostly) Murdoch press. Neither put food on your pampered plate, Australia.


The press in Oz doesn't have anything on China's political propaganda, which comes directly from the communist regime, and far too many Australians quite aware of any bias there ay be whereas 1.3 billion Chinese worship (are forced to worship) their regime




> ...if it gets worse, it will be due to China's imperial fantasies, not Australia's efforts to defend itself against overt and persistent economic bullying, threats and insidious hacking...


I agree - Australia is hardly the aggressor but it seems there are quite a few here who would willingly accept any treatment by China




> And if it gets worse it will also be due to ignorant hillbilly Australians that have no idea.


True, but:



> But I think that we have seen it about as bad as it will get.


I agree.  Sydney, when I arrived in the very late 70s was already well on its way to being multicultural (let's not include the Aborigines in this or well never stop) and the mass migration of Asians due to policy changes led to quite a bit of anxiety later on.  By now the sheer number of Asian-Australians and their inclusion in fairly well every part of Australian society makes overt racism a relatively rare occurrence. 

Lets not fool ourselves, however, that the aggressor is China, not Australia . . . otherwise you can include virtually every nation China has a beef with as being the aggressors . . . including NZ

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I agree - Australia is hardly the aggressor but it seems there are quite a few here who would willingly accept any treatment by China


Usually because they are making money out of it.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> IMO, it is being ignorant and cowardly by taking cheap political potshots, while cowering behind Auntie Sams petticoat. And of course any incendiary political comments are amplified by the (mostly) Murdoch press. Neither put food on your pampered plate, Australia.
> 
> One thing rarely being taken into account is the effect it is having on other Asian people too, such as the young Vietnamese lady assaulted by thugs in Sydney, because Covid. Australia risks losing it's reputation as a friendly, safe destination for Asian students, holidaymakers and prospective residents & investors. It has already damaged it's vital trade links with China- and frankly, if it gets worse, you ain't seen nothing yet. Not real smart.


Australia has been one of the most welcoming countries in the world towards Asians. There are over 1 million Asians in Australia and you pick out one that was assaulted. Well done.

----------


## panama hat

> Australia has been one of the most welcoming countries in the world towards Asians. There are over 1 million Asians in Australia and you pick out one that was assaulted. Well done.


Crying racism is the easiest thing to do . . . and when one tries to prove a point it's even easier.

----------


## docmartin

My wife's Thai friends are treated very well in Australia as far as I'm aware but the chat on farcebook includes anxiety about potential abuse triggered by anecdotal reports of apparently real incidents.
That said, the vast majority of Australians are very friendly and welcoming to them.

----------


## panama hat

My business partner in Malaysia is Malaysian Chinese.  His daughter goes to school in the UK and will study medicine there next year.  When covid-19 broke out in the UK he was there with his daughter and as things got worse he became more worried about being Chinese because . . . chatter . . . and that an Asian had been beaten up in the UK somewhere.  No facts, just chatter.  

I'm not saying it doesn't happen as it most certainly does but to brand a country like Australia as being racist or full of racists is simply bullshit

----------


## sabang

Australia isn't racist, and as you well know is one of the most multicultural countries in the world today- only Switzerland exceeds it for the percentage of citizens born elsewhere. But that isn't to say there aren't any racists, or idiots. Heck, some aussies even like Trump. There has indeed been an upsurge in Hate incidents since Covid, in Australia as well as numerous other countries, such as the US & UK. Sad, but predictable.

----------


## Backspin

> ...if it gets worse, it will be due to China's imperial fantasies, not Australia's efforts to defend itself against overt and persistent economic bullying, threats and insidious hacking...


China and Australia have been making win win deals for 30 years. Hardly economic bullying 

But recently , Australia has fell inline behind Mike Pompeo , a fat dopey corn farmer from Nebraska , with is China bogeyman cold war 2.0 nonsense.

Nobody else in the neighborhood is doing this. Even India has kept it above the Mike Pompeo demagogery

----------


## sabang

I think Mikey Pompeousass was shat onto the worlds surface to make John Bolton look likable. Talk about an Ugly American.

----------


## Looper

*'We have a right to keep your daughter in an undisclosed location': ABC bureau chief tells of Chinese interrogation*

It was late on a Friday evening and I was about to head home from the ABC's Beijing office when the telephone rang.

On the other end of the line was a man from the Central Cyberspace Affairs Commission.

He refused to give his name but insisted one of the ABC's Chinese staff write down the statement he was about to dictate.

The man told us our reporting had "violated China's laws and regulations, spread rumours and illegal, harmful information which endangered state security and damaged national pride".

It was August 31, 2018, and I had been the ABC's China bureau chief since January 2016, working alongside reporter Bill Birtles.





Three weeks earlier the ABC's website had been suddenly banned in China and ever since I had been pushing for an official reason why. The telephone call came, and there it was.

But the call also marked the beginning of something else: more than three months of intimidation until my family and I were effectively forced to leave China.
They wanted me to know they were watching

I am telling this story for the first time. After my departure from China I was reluctant to report what had happened because I did not want to harm the ABC's operations in China, put staff at risk or threaten the chances of my successor as bureau chief, Sarah Ferguson, being granted a journalist's visa to China.

But all that changed when Birtles and the Australian Financial Review's Mike Smith fled the country this month.
The moment the ABC's reporter no longer felt safe in China
Bill Birtles in a face mask.

After seven Chinese State Security police officers arrived at my door at midnight, I realised the concerns about my safety were real, writes Bill Birtles.
Read more

My story  which occurred two years earlier  suggests there is more to their actions against foreign journalists than tit-for-tat reprisals as the Chinese portray it.

The fact is that every foreign journalist in China is under surveillance. But tracking of my activities picked up significantly after that Friday night phone call.

There is the kind of surveillance the Chinese government wants you to know about. When I was reporting on the mass detentions of Uyghurs in Xinjiang, for example, the ABC team was surrounded by about 20 security officials, followed by midnight knocks on our hotel room doors and questioning about our daily activities.

But there is also the hidden cyber surveillance and occasionally I saw it in action.

One night in the early hours of the morning I woke to see someone remotely controlling my phone and accessing my email account. They searched and found an email from activists in New York that I was CC'd into requesting to have the famous ABC "tank man" footage from the Tiananmen Square massacre given a UNESCO heritage listing.
A man stands in front of a row of tanks
The photo of a man in front of a convoy of tanks became the defining image of the Tiananmen crackdown.(Reuters)

The email was left open so I could see it, which I believe was a deliberate attempt to let me know they were watching.

I continued to work as normal. I feel strongly that the moment you adjust your reporting to placate the Chinese authorities, it is the moment you should leave.
Our future was in the hands of Chinese authorities

One way the Chinese authorities try to force foreign journalists to self-censor their work is by threatening not to renew the 12-month residency visas.

I anticipated trouble, so submitted my renewal application six weeks before it was due to expire. If things were okay, you could expect approval in about 10 days. I didn't get a response.
Australia-China tensions on the rise
A composite of the Chinese and Australian flags on cracked ground.

Tensions between Australia and China are again under the spotlight after the arrest of Australian journalist Cheng Lei, marking the latest in a string of incidents between the nations.
Read more

Instead, I was ordered to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for "a cup of tea", a phrase that every foreign journalist knows is a euphemism for a dressing down.

When I entered the room, my government-appointed minder Mr Ouyang was standing with Ms Sun, an unassuming, bespectacled Chinese bureaucrat. She poured me a cup of tea.

Ms Sun had a pile of my story transcripts sitting in her lap. She drew them out one-by-one, referring to each in turn: "Re-education camps in Xinjiang! Political executions! Imprisoning of labour activists! Experts labelling Xi Jinping a dictator!!!" With each story her anger grew until she was enraged.

The session continued for two hours and it was quite a performance.

Ms Sun claimed I had abused all the people and leadership of China. I countered that I didn't know how that could be possible considering the ABC website had been banned in China.

This infuriated her further and she went on to lay out a more serious charge: I had personally broken Chinese laws and was now under investigation.

As I left the meeting that day, I felt vulnerable. I knew my future, and that of my family, was now in the hands of the Chinese authorities.
I was berated for any 'negative' China coverage

Over the next two weeks I was called in twice more for "cups of tea". The meetings were always angry and always lead by Ms Sun. But the focus had widened.

I was berated for any "negative" China coverage the ABC did on any platform and any program, particularly the Four Corners stories investigating Chinese interference in Australia's democracy.

As the ABC bureau chief, the boss, they believed I should take responsibility for these stories. In their view I was an appointment of the Australian Government and as such could be pressured as a means of passing a message to Canberra.
A man in a suit and red scarf is filmed by a camera
Ideological differences between China and foreign journalists often causes over tension over the role of journalism.

In a country like China where media is tightly controlled, understanding the concept of independence  the fundamental difference between a state broadcaster and a public broadcaster like the ABC  is not straightforward.

In my last meeting, Ms Sun still would not tell me if my visa renewal was going ahead.

But she did reveal one important detail: the matter was now out of her hands.

A "higher authority was in charge of the investigation", she said, and was outraged by Australia's new interference laws (some of the toughest in the world at that point).
Something was wrong

It was now a week before my visa was due to expire and with it the supporting visas for my wife and three children.

We booked flights back to Sydney for the following Friday night. The plan was to shield the kids from the drama and if worst came to worst, pick them up from school and leave straight for the airport.
Australian anchor detained in Beijing

A high-profile Australian television anchor for the Chinese Government's English news channel, CGTN, has been detained in Beijing in a highly sensitive case posing a fresh challenge to Australia-China relations.
Read more

We continued life as normally as possible. My wife, Catherine, was incredible under this pressure making calm, rational judgements all the way through the saga.

Early on Monday morning it appeared we had a breakthrough. I was told the visa had been approved and when I arrived at the office Mr Ouyang was waiting.

The atmosphere was tense.

    He dropped my passport on the ground in front me, for me to pick up, a deliberate insult in Chinese culture.

He told me, with a cold anger, I had an extension of only two months (I'd asked for a year) and then added pointedly: "Don't expect to return to the People's Republic of China" and "don't think this mess ends with you".

Relieved the uncertainty and stress appeared to be over, Catherine and I went to the immigration police to have visa extensions stamped into our passports.

The official at the desk began entering our details into the system, but suddenly the mood changed. Something was wrong. We were told to immediately report to Public Security.

It was clear this ordeal was far from over. In fact, there had just been a major escalation.
Then the penny dropped

Once in the hands of Public Security we entered into territory where interrogations and detentions are the norm. As I mulled the possibilities, fear sank into my gut. If this is where our investigation had ended up, then we were in serious trouble.

We were instructed to report to a facility in north Beijing and told to bring my daughter Yasmine, who was 14 at the time, as she was now part of the investigation.
A man in a hat and a girl stand on the Great Wall in China with a green hill behind them
Matthew in China with his daughter Yasmine, who at 14 was an adult under the law.(Supplied)

This felt like a line in the sand for me. I could not accept that they would involve my children.

At the same time I was frightened. It felt like part of the Chinese playbook: to go after family members as a way to exact punishment and revenge.

We turned up the next morning at 7:30am and walked into a large security complex. By this stage the Australian Embassy, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and my ABC bosses were aware of what was happening and were monitoring my movements.

The complex was newly built but mostly empty, except for the staff sitting dutifully at their workstations. It was so clean you could smell antiseptic. At end of a corridor an official told us to wait.

A short time later I was called into an office where three people were waiting at a desk. A woman, flanked by two older men, was clearly in charge. They did not give their titles or names. The woman told me in a tone that came across as arrogant that the investigation was about a visa violation.

Then the penny dropped  this is how I would be expelled from China: a visa violation would avoid a possible escalation with the Australian Government if I was charged with a more serious offence.

I had spent the past three years reporting on dissidents and Communist Party purges where the targets were often convicted of lesser crimes like arson or immoral behaviour.
'You will be put into detention'

The most pressing question was to yet to be answered: Why my daughter?

Then the lead interrogator, the woman, replied in slow, strident English: "Your daughter is 14 years old. She is an adult under Chinese law and as the People's Republic of China is a law-abiding country she will be charged with the visa crime".
'Arrest by algorithm'
A graphic showing documents in the background in Chinese with an illustration of men in prison uniforms sitting in foreground.

The China Cables leak of highly classified documents reveals the scale of Beijing's repressive control over Xinjiang, where more than a million Uyghurs and other Muslim minority groups are detained.
Read more

I replied that as her father I would take responsibility for her "visa crimes". After all, I had put her in this position.

After a pause the woman answered: "Do you know that as a law-abiding country we have the right to detain your daughter?"

She knew she had total power over me and she let the words sink in. After some time she added: "I do have to inform you, Mr Carney, that we have a right to keep your daughter in an undisclosed location and I do have to inform you there would be other adults present".

I told her any attempt at this, and I would escalate the situation by involving the Australian Embassy and Australian Government, which was aware of my case.

But if she was trying to terrify me, it was working.

As my final offering, I said to her that we would leave China the next day, no problem.

She laughed in response and said: "Mr Carney, you can't leave the People's Republic of China! You are under investigation and we have put an exit ban on your passport".

Ok, I said. What happens when our visas run out this Saturday? I hoped she might say we would be expelled immediately.

Instead she smiled and said, "Well, you will be put into detention".
Was it all just theatre?

Panic was setting in, but I had to pull myself together and come up with a plan.

In a break I made a pact with Catherine: we would never let Yasmine out of our sight or be moved to separate locations.

After a round of calls to embassy staff, Chinese colleagues and the ABC, we all decided the best approach was to confess guilt and apologise for the "visa crime", with the condition that Yasmine stayed with us. She was mostly unaware of the severity of the situation.

I returned to the woman in the security office and did just that.
A man in a green jacket stands outside a building with columns and red flags on the top and a red and gold emblem
Carney outside the Great Hall of the People in central Beijing.(Supplied)

One of the men with her, who had a friendly, chubby face, explained the visa violation had come about because I had not transferred the visa that was about to expire from my current passport into a new passport that I had just had issued, within a 10-day timeframe. Instead (as advised) I was applying to have the new visa placed directly into the new passport. Was I guilty? Oh yes, I was! I was just relieved there was no other serious charges.

My best hope was this interrogation was all just theatre, designed to scare and humiliate.

The woman then interjected and instructed us to return the next day when my daughter and I would be required to give a taped video confession.

I went in first at 9:00am. The chubby-faced man set up a camera and pushed record and answered question after question about my travel itinerary over the past year.

Finally, it was time to confess my guilt: "Yes, I didn't put visas in my new passport."

My daughter, with my wife beside her, was called in next to give her confession.

By this stage the man with the chubby face was quite friendly. If this was all it was going to be, then it felt like a good sign. But you never knew.
'The investigation is over'

When the lead interrogator returned she told us she would consider our confessions, write a report on our case and send it to "the higher authority" for judgement.

To heighten the tension once again, she said a result could take weeks. Our visas were running out in four days and by now we knew the consequences.

We went home defeated and with no idea what would happen next. But at least we were all still together.
A piece of paper in Chinese language with a red ink fingerprint
The signed and finger-printed confession which states Matthew had "violated the People's Republic of China exit and entry management law, Article 33".(Supplied)

Then suddenly, early the next morning, we got a phone call.

"The investigation is over. The visa extension of two months has been granted. Come immediately back to the security office".

The man with the chubby face was waiting for us.

My daughter and I were asked to sign and thumb print every page of the transcripts from our "confessions", many pages long.

Then with a handshake and a smile he presented us with a certificate stating we were guilty of a visa violation. Our lead interrogator looked on sternly as we left the building, relieved.
A flight out never felt so good

There was one more twist to my story.

A program I made on China's social credit system which uses digital technology to keep control of the population, was getting tens of millions of views around the world.
China's social credit system
Surveillance software identifies details about people and vehicles in Beijing.

Beijing is making an ambitious attempt to create a social credit system, in a move designed to value and engineer better individual behaviour.
Read more

The Chinese woman I featured in the story as a "model citizen" threatened legal action against me in the civil courts for defamation. Her husband was an active and ambitious Communist Party member. Was this another way to intimidate me and the ABC?

I took advice from an American lawyer based in Beijing who urged me to leave China immediately. As soon as legal proceedings were lodged against me, an exit ban would be activated.

He claimed to be representing dozens of foreigners in a similar position, some who had been stuck for years.

I was counting down the days before we could leave China for good. This wasn't the way I wanted it to end my posting, leaving behind one the world's biggest stories and many good Chinese friends.

But boarding the plane for a night flight back to Sydney with my family on a cold December night had never felt so good.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-09-21/matthew-carney-foreign-journalist-china-intimidation-birtles/12678610

----------


## Looper

*China to lose access to Swedish-owned satellite tracking stations in Australia due to 'complex' relationship*

China will lose access to two important and strategic space satellite-tracking stations in Australia, with their Swedish owners citing the "complexity" of doing business with Beijing.


Key points:

    Swedish Space Corporation said it would end its contracts with China due to the "complexity" of the relationship with the country
    The company operates the Dongara and Yatharagga satellite stations in Western Australia
    SSC would not comment on how much longer its contracts with China had to run

The Swedish Space Corporation (SSC), owned by the Swedish government, operates 11 satellite-tracking facilities around the world, including the Dongara and Yatharagga stations south of Geraldton in Western Australia.

The Dongara station is primarily used by US government agencies such as NASA.

The decision comes as China continues its expansion into space exploration, and concerns continue to mount about the country's intelligence-gathering operations in the science and technology sectors.

Last week, the ABC revealed a massive Chinese database contained specific information about Australia's fledgling space industry.

SSC's Anni Bolenuis said the company had found its relatively small size a barrier to effectively doing business with Beijing.

"It has become increasingly difficult for us to handle the complexity of the Chinese market and therefore we have decided to focus on other markets," she told the ABC, speaking from Sweden.

"We will not enter into any new contracts with Chinese customers after the current contracts expire."

Ms Bolenuis would not detail exactly when the contracts were due to run out, but said they were "long-term" deals that "were entered into quite a long time ago".

She also would not be drawn on SSC's specific concerns about China's recent behaviour.

"I think everyone who has followed developments can see that the Chinese market is complex," she said.

"I won't go further into that, but we have clearly seen that it has influenced our view."

In 2008, SSC was spruiking its new office in Beijing as "an important step" to "maintain contacts and give local support to our Chinese customers as well as further explore our possibilities on a fast-growing Chinese space market".

The Yatharagga station was used in 2013 to monitor China's Shenzhou 10 launch, which was the nation's fifth crewed space mission.

The ABC has contacted the office of Industry and Science Minister Karen Andrews for comment.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-09-21/swedish-tracking-station-in-australia-ends-contracts-with-china/12686974

----------


## harrybarracuda

I hope that doesn't mean the chinkies expensive Mars probe doesn't head for Pluto instead.

----------


## panama hat

Next thread:

Sweden versus China

----------


## Looper

*How Australia-China relations have hit 'lowest ebb in decades'*

Tensions between Australia and China have recently read like the edge-of-your-seat part of a geopolitical thriller; no-one knows exactly where the story is going or how it's going to end.

"The Australia-China relationship is unravelling at a pace that could not have been contemplated just six months ago," academic James Laurenceson wrote recently.



Take the escalation in recent weeks alone. Chinese authorities confirmed that Cheng Lei, an Australian citizen and high-profile host for China's English-language broadcaster CGTN, had been detained on suspicion of endangering national security.

Shortly after, the last two correspondents working for Australian media in China were rushed home on the advice of diplomats. It played out in mindboggling fashion.

On the eve of ABC reporter Bill Birtles' hastily planned departure from Beijing, seven Chinese police officers arrived on his doorstep in the middle of the night. A similar visit was paid to the Australian Financial Review's Michael Smith in Shanghai.
Australian journalist Cheng Lei (left) has been detained in China while Bill Birtles (centre) and Mike Smith were rushed homeimage copyrightGetty Images/Reuters
image caption(L-R) Cheng Lei remains detained in China while Bill Birtles and Mike Smith were rushed home

Each took refuge in Australian diplomatic missions but were prevented from leaving China until they were questioned over vague "national security" matters. Mr Birtles said he felt like a "pawn in a diplomatic tussle".

The day after the pair arrived home, Chinese state media reported that Australian intelligence agents had questioned several Chinese journalists in June and seized their devices "in violation of legitimate rights".

Australian media reported that incident was linked to an investigation by intelligence officials and police into alleged foreign interference. It followed raids in June on the offices of New South Wales state MP Shaoquett Moselmane, a staunch supporter of Beijing who later said he was not personally under investigation.

Most recently, two Australian academics were banned from entering China - a move one argued had been in retaliation to Canberra revoking the visas of two Chinese scholars.

At any other time, one of these incidents could be enough to sustain headlines for some time - but these happened in rapid succession.
media captionBill Birtles: "It was a whirlwind week"

The breakneck speed has had even close watchers scratching their heads.
The back story

Anger and mistrust between the countries has been bubbling under the surface for years.

A turning point happened in 2017 after the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (Asio) warned of growing Chinese attempts to influence decision-making in Canberra. Donations from Chinese businessmen to local politicians also came to light.

Late in the year, Prime Minister Malcom Turnbull announced laws designed to curb foreign interference. Beijing responded by freezing diplomatic visits.

In 2018, Australia became the first country to publicly ban the Chinese tech giant Huawei from being involved in its 5G network, citing national security reasons. There have been numerous other flashpoints since.

Through all the turmoil, however, Australia's trade relationship with its biggest customer largely flourished.

China may have been furious with Australia, but its ever-growing economy remained hungry for Australian natural resources. So, the iron ore, coal and liquified natural gas continued to flow to China, and Chinese tourists and students and a huge export income continued to flow to Australia.
Presentational grey line
More on Australia and China:

    How reliant is Australia on their top customer?
    Why China's rise exposes Australian vulnerabilities
    'I feel censored by Chinese students'

media captionAustralia and China are big trading partners but have disagreed on a number of important political issues
Presentational grey line

Though many economic benefits continue, things have changed dramatically in 2020.

"Politically we're at the lowest ebb since diplomatic relations were established in 1972," said Professor Laurenceson, director of the Australia-China Relations Institute at the University of Technology Sydney.

The real trigger this year has been Australia calling for an investigation into the origins of Covid-19, which was first detected in the Chinese city of Wuhan. Prime Minister Scott Morrison suggested that the World Health Organization needed tough new "weapons inspector" powers.

Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton cited US State Department comments that "documentation" existed showing how the virus had spread - but noted he had not seen them. Chinese diplomats responded with highly undiplomatic language, saying Mr Dutton must have been told to work "with the US in its propaganda war".

Professor Laurenceson told the BBC that Beijing's anger was directed not just at the political rhetoric but at Australia's stance on the global balance of power.

"China is seeing that Australia is making its choice to line up with America in a geopolitical competition," he said.

In late April, China's ambassador to Canberra, Cheng Jingye, threatened that Chinese people could boycott Australian products.

"If the mood is going from bad to worse Maybe the ordinary people will say 'why should we drink Australian wine? Eat Australian beef?'" he told the Australian Financial Review.

Not long after, China slapped an 80.5% tariff on Australian barley, suspended some Australian beef imports and launched an anti-dumping probe into Australian wine imports.
Foreign ministers from India, Japan, Australia and the US sit around a table at security talks this weekimage copyrightGetty Images
image captionAsia-Pacific allies known as "The Quad": India, Japan, Australia and the US meet last week in Tokyo

Beijing also cautioned students and tourists against going to Australia, citing racist incidents in light of Covid-19.

Australian sentiments towards Beijing have also soured in public opinion. This is especially evident in what many see as China's attempts at arm-twisting with sanctions against sectors of Australia's economy.

"Those bullying tactics have hardened attitudes in Australia," said Natasha Kassam, a research fellow at the Lowy Institute think tank. It conducted a poll this year which found only 23% of Australians trusted China to act responsibly in the world.

Ms Kassam added that every time China attempted to "bully" Australia, the voices demanding a more assertive policy towards Beijing grew louder.

Mr Morrison has used tough language at times, insisting that Australia will not "trade away" its values or respond to coercion.

His government has openly criticised the new security law imposed by China on Hong Kong, and offered safe haven to many Hong Kong students and graduates already in Australia. It has also suspended its extradition agreement with Hong Kong.

Beijing's fury with Canberra's latest stances - especially the US alignment - is not surprising, but the speed and severity of the anger has taken even the experts aback.

"I am surprised to the extent that for three years we had a firewall between the political side of the relationship and the economic one," Professor Laurenceson said. "Now in the spate of five months we have China taking or mooting action against barley, beef, students, tourists, and wine."


"What adds to the nervousness at the moment is that it's not clear where the bottom is."

Ms Kassam said it was increasingly clear that the acrimony was "structural" and could not be "fixed by better diplomacy".

"It was never going to be possible in this globalised world where China is a big rising power," she said, noting Australia's US alliance.

The two sides know that with high tensions come even higher stakes. Last week, one of China's top diplomats called for an end to "confrontation and abusive language" between Australia and China.

Fu Ying, China's former ambassador to Australia and an influential figure in Beijing, called for better communication because the two trading partners needed each other.

The significance of that particular statement was not just in what she said, but who she said it to: Michael Smith of the Australian Financial Review, one of the two journalists who had been hurried out of China.

Even amid the tensions and the pandemic-led global recession, the countries have traded at a consistent pace.

"The economic side of the relationship remains a strength," said Professor Laurenceson. He expected it to co-exist with the political relationship "in an uneasy way going forward".

"You will not find two countries that have more complementary production structures than Australia and China. Simply put - China wants what Australia produces and they want it deeply."
A shop worker grabs a bottle from the Australian wine section in a Beijing bottle shopimage copyrightGetty Images
image captionChina is running two investigations into Australian wine exports

This remains a complicated balancing act for both countries.

For Ms Kassam, separating trade from political tensions is a myth which has been dispelled as both sides ratchet up their rhetoric.

"For 10 years [or so] Australia and China were able to maintain the fiction that their economies' co-dependency could exist in a separate sphere to their political tensions. It was in both sides interest to maintain that fiction for that period."

She added it was hard to see stability returning soon and that, in future, the relationship would be defined by tension and political conflict.

"I worry about that a lot," Ms Kassam said. "I worry about Australian people in China and whether they could potentially be targeted in the declining bilateral relationship." 

How Australia-China relations have hit '&#39;'lowest ebb in decades'&#39;' - BBC News

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## harrybarracuda

Chinky bully boys throwing their weight around on their home turf.

The convicts should detain of few of them and ask them vague questions about didgeridoos before sending them packing.

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## sabang

Sure, and kiss goodbye to 46% of our national exports. Bet you'd love that 'arry, but not gonna happen.

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## panama hat

> Sure, and kiss goodbye to 46% of our national exports. Bet you'd love that 'arry, but not gonna happen.


It's better to slowly but surely cut our own throats simply waiting for China to do as it wishes

China Bans Australian Coal Imports as Political Relations Sour - Bloomberg

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## OhOh

> surely cut our own throats


One wonders if the Oz coal industry and it's employees feel the same.

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## jabir

Does wonders for China's _image_.

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## panama hat

> One wonders if the Oz coal industry and it's employees feel the same.


It feels better when China is doing it for you without warning?  You're not only an apologist for a murderous regime you're also thick. 







> Does wonders for China's image.


But it makes people like OhOh and Klondyke feel good.

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## harrybarracuda

> Sure, and kiss goodbye to 46% of our national exports. Bet you'd love that 'arry, but not gonna happen.


You're the sort of spineless weasel that would kow tow to their blackmail.

We get it.

What they need is a bit of global support.

If everyone started slapping tariffs on chinky tat then they would think twice about threatening everyone.

Oh, and fuck coal. We should be leaving it in the ground in case the idiots haven't noticed.

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## sabang

Not gonna happen. Cry me a river.

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## harrybarracuda

> Not gonna happen. Cry me a river.


The way the chinkies are going, you won't have any rivers, or they'll be as polluted as fuck.

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## Hugh Cow

"When you lie with dogs you get up with fleas". The Australian govt needs to slowly diversify away from China. They have proved they cannot be trusted. The free trade agreement is not worth the paper it's printed on. 
Unfortunately we are the foolish frog that trusted the crocodile to carry us over the river and we all know how that ends.

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## panama hat

Absolutely.  The same must be said for Kiwi businesses, especially agriculture.  China is the low-hanging fruit and they happily commit to five-year agreements to buy 50-75% of production . . . until the communist party says stop.  Stupid westerners believe in the rule of contractual law/agreements.  China doesn't. 

So, in the meantime the producers are selling the lower quality product to the consumer at a higher price because of scarcity.  The scarcity they themselves brought on.  Consumers complain and the government bails out the producers who are crying. 

Fuck 'em.  Many Kiwi producers are self-centred and entitled scum. (Plus, quite a few farms and orchards belong to Chinese companies.)

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## OhOh

> They have proved they cannot be trusted.


They being the Australian government who introduced and changed previously agreed and working accommodations.




> Stupid westerners believe in the rule of contractual law/agreements. China doesn't.


Bollocks.

Tthe western world renegades daily on previously agreed lawful UN supported laws and relationships. They do not abide by international law as defined by UN institutions, but introduced many politically driven restrictions utilising a raft of illegal actions utilising unproven "national security" as their only reason.

The once mighty empires are rapidly shrinking into irrelevance. Trade, respect, military ability to deliver their sound bite boasts but most of all, leadership and the ability to improve their citizens and their global partners lives.




> quite a few farms and orchards belong to Chinese companies.


Who purchased the farms from willing sellers or bombed the owners forcing them to live in concentration camps and stole the wealth by the edict of a bullying Emperor?

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## harrybarracuda

Which country is spitting their dummy out because Australia and others wants to know who covered up their pesky Wuhan Virus and has responded with threats and economic damage?

A) The Chinkies
B) The Chinkies
C) The fucking Chinkies again

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## Latindancer

All that the Aussie Prime Minister said was that we and others wanted an independent investigation....and the Chinky reaction was impressive.

Methinks they do protest TOO much...

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## Hugh Cow

The latest is that the chinese have told their mills not to buy cotton from Australia.

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## panama hat

> Tthe western world renegades daily on previously agreed lawful UN supported laws and relationships.


Really?  This 'western world' has a flag?  Does it have membership at the UN?  Are you utterly deranged?




> Who purchased the farms from willing sellers or bombed the owners forcing them to live in concentration camps and stole the wealth by the edict of a bullying Emperor?


Why are you creating an argument where there wasn't one?  Why are you hyperventilating?  Have you had your stroke?  
Again: Are you utterly deranged?




> The latest is that the chinese have told their mills not to buy cotton from Australia.


No surprise, they want to bludgeon Australia into submission for not abiding by China's arbitrary rules and vagaries.

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## Little Chuchok

> Fuck 'em.  Many Kiwi producers are self-centred and entitled scum. (Plus, quite a few farms and orchards belong to Chinese companies.)


Who is the scum?

I know a few producers and they are not like that at all.

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## harrybarracuda

Now the whinging chinkies are spitting their dummy at Trudeau for speaking the truth.

Still, I'm sure they manufacture lots of cheap, shit dummies.




> China said Wednesday it has lodged solemn representations with Canada in response to media reports of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau criticizing China over its measures in Hong Kong and Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> During a news conference on Tuesday, Trudeau attacked Beijing's human rights record while marking the 50th anniversary of Canada's diplomatic ties with China.
> 
> "We will continue to work with China for advancing Canadian interests and Canadian producers. At the same time, we will remain absolutely committed to working with our allies to ensure that China's approach of coercive diplomacy, its arbitrary detention of two Canadian citizens, alongside other citizens of other countries around the world, is not viewed as a successful tactic by them," he said.
> 
> "It has put a significant strain on Canada-China relations and we will continue to highlight our concern for the Canadians detained, our concern for the protection of human rights in places like Hong Kong, in Xinjiang province with the Uighurs."


China lodges complaint with Canada over Trudeau'&#39;'s '&#39;'coercive diplomacy'&#39;' remarks | CBC News

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## panama hat

> I know a few producers and they are not like that at all.





> Many


A few examples - dumping produce, returning seafood to the water instead of selling it domestically at a lower price, pre-selling 5 harvests and diminishing supply and increasing local price etc...

I sat next to an Orchard owner on my flight from Nelson to Auckland last week and he was in a bit of strife re. workers and he'd fairly well cut production lines locally for his China export.  He wasn't happy China was cutting imports and he was frightened by what he was seeing China do to Australia, especially with Winston Peters' rhetoric.

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## OhOh

> western world' has a flag? Does it have membership at the UN? Are you utterly deranged?


The "western world" consists of many countries which all have their own flags. All subservient to one unexceptional bully who on a whim can and does cut their, via unproven and hence illegal "national security" accusations, balls off.




> dumping produce, returning seafood to the  water instead of selling it domestically at a lower price, pre-selling 5  harvests and diminishing supply and increasing local price etc...


Look around the world and you will see many withdraw product availability, e.g. limited editions of status cars, clothes, ...., to ensure the price remains stable. 

Many also reduce prices to customers who sign binding contracts stipulating multi year, fixed amounts purchase - oil and gas is one example. Australian coal is another, if the producer has a list of guaranteed long term buyers they will readily invest on a new mine. ameristan LNG another, without long term fixed price contracts no port facilities and hence sales to foreign buyers, will be built.

Many restrict supply if they own markets, diamonds are but one example. 

It's called capitalism.

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## panama hat

> It's called capitalism.


Horrible stuff.  You must detest it every day you are forced to live under it . . . same thing with freedom of expression - you must loathe yourself for exercising this opportunity before you go home to Xian or Tianjin.

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## Little Chuchok

> A few examples - dumping produce, returning seafood to the water instead of selling it domestically at a lower price, pre-selling 5 harvests and diminishing supply and increasing local price etc...
> 
> I sat next to an Orchard owner on my flight from Nelson to Auckland last week and he was in a bit of strife re. workers and he'd fairly well cut production lines locally for his China export.  He wasn't happy China was cutting imports and he was frightened by what he was seeing China do to Australia, especially with Winston Peters' rhetoric.


One of the seafood guys is just evil, that's for sure. 

However, most of the produces that I know are just normal hard working people trying to get ahead. If you want real bad, then go no further than Air NZ or any shipping company (not withstanding the Chinese National carrier who have had a large influence ('Merica do not have a horse in this race...). Now these guys are manipulating our market and fucking up the supply chain, but that's another story...

----------


## panama hat

> One of the seafood guys is just evil, that's for sure.


Profits yet still asking for handouts and subsidies.  Yup.  And Labor bends over backwards while others (Briscoes has just paid back their subsidy) - I do hope the corp subsidies are being looked at very closely.




> However, most of the produces that I know are just normal hard working people trying to get ahead.


I know, I was generalising . . . I just hate seeing salmona (which is raised alllover the place here) and cherries and other products cheaper in Malaysia than they are here - salmon ffs at over $40/kg . . . and the list goes on.  And pulling in the subsidies from the government 
Paua, crayfish etc... being chucked back into the sea because the fishing companies saw their orders from China dry up.

Thousands of examples, this ain't the place it used to be. (According to my wife, but she was raised in Christchurch)




> If you want real bad, then go no further than Air NZ


Oh yea . . . let's talk about the bastards




> Now these guys are manipulating our market and fucking up the supply chain, but that's another story...


Agreed.

Thanks for engaging.  You're quite right, of course, that there are many hard-working and sensible agri people here

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## Hugh Cow

The thread seems to have wandered off (not unusual). I dont know anything about the NZ market but it sounds as if it might make an interesting separate thread.

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## panama hat

> The thread seems to have wandered off (not unusual). I dont know anything about the NZ market but it sounds as if it might make an interesting separate thread.


Sorry, you're right.  At least it didn't go off on the usual shitfest.

However, Australia and Australian producers aren't that far off their Kiwi neighbours, which was why I went on the tangent.

----------


## OhOh

> because the fishing companies saw their orders from China dry up.


Due to what reason? Not the generally proven and illegal "regime national security" joke, as utilized by many western regimes. :Smile: 

They had signed multi year contracts or just offering for sale as they had product available to sell on the daily market?

The Chinese owned fruit farms, were they affected or had they signed multi year delivery/quality/timely contracts with more than one buyer? You know as prudent companies do. Not relying on a single buyer or market for their sales.

No knowledge of Fruit growing economics prior to moving to Thailand.

I have seen a number of "selling perishable fruit" options. 

1. Sell at roadside buyers. Mostly by farmers with no trucks or small amounts.
2. Sell to "harvest and buy" gangs.
3. Sell to local large wholesale markets where a large number gather at local location during normal market seasons.
4. Sell to national and international buyers. Requires product quality control, proven ability, possibly contracted volumes, set market timing etc. Provides base economic data when considering expansion/investment in new expansion planes. Relative to all industries worldwide. Including both OZ and NZ national and foreign owned/located multi national companies.

All the above allow multiple producers access, back garden to 100's Rai farms, Canadian prarie Wheat to niche pâté de foie gras ..... ,  to the market. Actual prices vary on a daily/hourl/second basis for the first three. Buyers quality decision is with the buyer, grade A higher than Grade B. 

The 4th allows both parties some economic protection and any shortfalls can be remedied from the hourly spot market.

As an advisor to companies considering investment I would have assumed you had knowledge of thees types of pitfalls. Rather than your unsubstantiated, directed, tabloid, propaganda.

----------


## Backspin

> The latest is that the chinese have told their mills not to buy cotton from Australia.


 It was the USA who got the whole western world to fully embrace Communist China for 30 years. Now that "the market" didn't turn China into a universal suffrage democracy who would buy F-16's, they are instructing their lapdogs to withdraw from China. 

The punchline is, both the USA and Australia have China as their biggest trade partner.  :rofl:  Their economies are cogs in the China machine.

----------


## OhOh

An article, on the thread topic, from an Australian-based former Barrister at Law. 

As the photo suggests there have been very expensive investments made by OZ and international companies, in the mining and the associated infrastructure, which may not be as valuable without the previous China demand.
*
Australia Faces Challenging Times Caused by Deteriorating Relations with China*

16.10.2020                      Author: James ONeill

 
_
"__A recent article published in Russia  Today on 13 October 2020 by Tom Fowdy raised some very important issues  affecting Australia’s economic well-being. That economic position is  rapidly deteriorating as the country’s crucial economic relationship  with China disintegrates at an accelerating rate. Australia’s export  structure has had several distinctive features over the 250 or so years  since it was first colonised by the British in the late 18th century.
__
Its initial role was to serve as a penal  colony for people from Britain who had committed crimes, but not severe  enough to warrant execution. The rights of Australia’s indigenous  population who had inhabited the country for more than 100,000 years did  not enter the equation. Indeed, they were not officially regarded even  as human beings, that status only being assigned in the 1960s. Before  then the aboriginal people had the same legal status as flora and fauna.
__
The defeat of the British in Singapore  by the Japanese army in 1941 lead to the beginning of a move from  reliance on the British for the country’s security to reliance upon the  Americans. The latter’s troops arrived in 1942 and they have been there  ever since.
__
Australia’s trading patterns showed a  similar reliance upon the British until the latter’s joining the  European Common Market on 1 January 1973 forced a reappraisal of that  economic relationship. Thereafter, Australia’s trade shifted  progressively to its Asian neighbours, a trend that accelerated in every  year since the 1970s. Today, Asian nations account for the vast bulk of  Australia’s trade with the world.__China, which accounted in 2019 for more  than one third of the total Australian exports, was easily the biggest  trading partner, accounting for nearly twice the amount of trade than  that with Japan, the second most important trading partner.
__
Despite its geography, being a landmass  immediately South of its major trading partners, the Australian  political psyche has remained firmly fixed to the Anglo-United States  worldview. Since the end of World War II in 1945, Australia has joined  the United States in at least four major military conflicts; Korea,  Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq, that are not only geographically remote  from Australia, but also involved no discernible vital Australian  strategic interest.__The fact that all four wars were based  on false justifications did nothing to enhance their legitimacy. The  Korean War was manifestly aimed at the overthrow of the then newly  installed Communist Party in China. This was readily discernible from  the actions of the Allied troops that clearly violated the terms of the  United Nations Security Council resolution authorising military action  (in the absence of Russia and with China’s seat still held by the  Nationalists.)
__
The lies told about Iraq’s “weapons of  mass destruction” or Afghanistan’s alleged role in sheltering the  falsely accused Osama bin Laden for his alleged role in the events of 11  September 2001 are too well known to bear repetition here. What is  important for present purposes is that the falsehoods and ulterior  motives for the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq did not  deter Australia from either its initial involvement or its continuing  role as an occupying power.__Australia similarly joined in the United  States manufactured war in Vietnam, again for no discernible strategic  or military interest to Australia. It was the experience of the 1972  –1975 Whitlam Labor government in Australia in response to that war that  cemented the subservience to United States interests.
__
Whitlam had removed Australian troops  from Vietnam and recognised the PRC as China’s legitimate government.  Both moves met with bitter opposition by the Liberal Opposition party.  What sealed the Whitlam government’s fate however, was its decision to  close the American run spy base at Pine Gap in Australia’s Northern  Territory. The Whitlam government was dismissed by the country’s  Governor General John Kerr the day before Whitlam was to announce Pine  Gap’s closure to the Australian parliament. That the base is still open  (one of at least eight United States military bases in Australia) speaks  volumes about the geopolitical consequences of the Whitlam dismissal.
__
Through these tumultuous years trade  with China continued to flourish. China also became the largest source  of foreign students, the largest source of foreign tourists, and the  third largest source of foreign investment. In 2020 all this changed.  Clearly acting as a mouthpiece for the American administration,  Australia demanded an “explanation” from China at the beginning of this  year for the outbreak of the Corona virus.
__
The accusatory tone of the Australian  demand was not well received in Beijing. This began a series of economic  countermeasures by China. The initially relatively small economic  impact of banning wine imports was clearly intended to send a signal.
__
That signal fell on deaf ears.  Australia’s anti-China rhetoric progressively escalated through 2020.  The Chinese response was to increase the banning of Australian imports.  The latest (early October 2020) was to ban coal imports from Australia.  This is a market worth $US13 billion to the Australian economy. It will  not be the last item to be banned or greatly restricted, with iron ore  (more than US$100 billion) probably being the next commodity banned,  already falling 17% each month since July.__The Covid crisis has also resulted in an  almost complete cessation of Chinese student arrivals (again the  largest foreign source) and an industry worth billions of dollars and  thousands of jobs to the Australian economy. It would be naïve to expect  those numbers to recover in the foreseeable future. The same is true  with Chinese tourists, a vanishing species and again unlikely to return  to anywhere near previous levels. Again, tens of thousands of jobs are  lost.
__
The rational response by an Australian  government would be to review both its policies and its rhetoric. Not  only has the Morrison government shown no such inclination, it is  difficult to see how it could feasibly do so without adversely affecting  its close and continuing (subservient) relationship with the United  States.__The memory of the fate of the 1975  Whitlam government which dared to pursue policies contrary to United  States wishes continues to cast a very long shadow over Australian  politics.__Fowdy suggests that Australia’s  situation “might be described as the most clear and explicit reaction  yet of the discomfort in the Anglo-sphere world caused by the rise of  China.” I respectfully agree. The solution however, is not to try and  maintain the dominance of the Western world as it has been for 
the past  300 years.
__
Instead there needs to be a recognition  that the Anglo-Saxon dominance was an historical anomaly, and that the  old order is resetting itself. In Australia’s case that will require  some major mental adjustments.__ The country has flourished in recent  decades precisely because of his geography and growing trade and other  links with what Australians call “the near North.” What has been  manifestly lacking is the political attitudes and conduct that match the  geopolitical and trade realities. 

Unfortunately, that adjustment may be  a bridge too far for the Australian psyche. It has only itself to blame."_

Australia Faces Challenging Times Caused by Deteriorating Relations with China | New Eastern Outlook

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## panama hat

> Due to what reason? Not the generally proven and illegal "regime national security" joke, as utilized by many western regimes


Why always so defensive, OhOh?  Bad conscience?  Dried up because Lunar New Year celebrations were curtailed in China due to the virus causing havoc in the country it originated. 

You would do well to stop being both so defensive and 'whataboutist' all the time . . . your retarded brother, Klondyke, has few brain cells to call upon when commenting - but you do.

----------


## OhOh

Attachment 58841
Exports per Continent.

Attachment 58842
Exports per Country.

Graph data from 2019.

Attachment 58843
Back to 2010 levels.

Will Europe, North or South America, all three together jump to fill the OZ growing export hole. 

Which of OZ's commodities do they require? 

Some may be able to print more money as they are doing now, others may not have that option.

Graph data from 2010 to 2020

Australia Exports By Country

Virus or poor political choices?

----------


## OhOh

> You would do well


I am doing well thank you. Your unwarranted opinion is not on topic, you have no knowledge of my health, marital, family or financial status.




> Klondyke, has .....


You'd do well to stop insulting fellow posters here on TD. It indicates a lack of inclusiveness and your failure to discuss the topic, which is your choice..

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## panama hat

> Your unwarranted opinion


Coming from you . . . that is off the charts




> It indicates a lack of inclusiveness


Why?  I discount anything Klondyke says - the 'lack of inclusiveness is a given seeing he posts

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## Klondyke

> I discount anything Klondyke says


"...no matter what he says" - quite good procedure ("I do not care what the facts are"...GHWB)

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## harrybarracuda

> You'd do well to stop insulting fellow posters here on TD. It indicates a lack of inclusiveness and your failure to discuss the topic, which is your choice..


I think you should read that back to yourself, being as you are the champion TD off-topic waffler every time your arse has been handed to you on a plate (again).

----------


## panama hat

> "...no matter what he says" - quite good procedure ("I do not care what the facts are"...GHWB)


Because everything you say is bullshit, devoid of facts.





> I think you should read that back to yourself, being as you are the champion TD off-topic waffler every time your arse has been handed to you on a plate (again).


 . . . and again and again and again

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## OhOh

^^, ^

----------


## harrybarracuda

It's great how he just proves your point on cue.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Now the chinkies are using cotton as a stick.

Australia demands China rule out 'discriminatory' trade curbs on cotton exports | Australia news | The Guardian

----------


## Looper

*Canberra probes reports China has banned Australian coal*

Canberra is investigating reports Beijing ordered its state-owned enterprises to stop buying Australian coal, stoking fears that trade tensions between the countries were rising.



But analysts cautioned that the unconfirmed reports of a coal ban may reflect efforts by China to prop up its own domestic coal industry rather than a deepening political dispute with Australia.

Beijing has reportedly issued a verbal communication to state-owned energy companies and steel mills to immediately stop importing Australian coal  a potentially crushing blow to the countrys A$55bn ($39bn) a year coal export industry.

China has already imposed sanctions on barley, beef and wine imports following a sharp deterioration in diplomatic relations linked to Canberras call for an inquiry into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic in Wuhan.

    Australian exports have risen much more than others, so given the ongoing politics in the background, [its] easy to penalise Australia versus other trading partners
    Robert Rennie, Westpac

Simon Birmingham, Australias trade minister, said the government had received no official notification from Beijing regarding an order to stop buying Australian coal.

We dont have any evidence to verify those reports, he told Australian radio on Tuesday.

I have seen the reports and we have certainly been in touch with the Australian industry and we have also been working to seek a response from Chinese authorities in relation to the accusations that have been made publicly.

News of a proposed coal ban was first reported by S&P Global Platts and Argus Media, with the latter stating that one state-owned Chinese utility had temporarily halted a shipment of Australian coal.

But some analysts suggested the action may be unlinked to simmering diplomatic tensions.

It is possible the term ban is being confused with quota and Australia producers have already reached their import quotas for the year, said Peter OConnor, analyst at Shaw and Partners, a Sydney-based broker.
China coking coal imports by country

He said coal importers from several nations had experienced similar import restrictions around October in previous years, once they had reached import quota limits designed to protect Chinas coal sector.

Daniel Hynes, an analyst at ANZ, said it appeared some Chinese buyers received the order but others had not. He added that the action did not appear to be directed exclusively at Australia, with other import sources also coming under the directive.
Recommended
AnalysisAustralia
Australia given short shrift by China over US ties and virus stance

Robert Rennie, head of global market strategy at Westpac, said import quotas, which China uses to control prices and the role of the commodity in the countrys energy mix, combined with huge queues off ports in China, meant imports would have to slow over the remainder of the year.

Australian exports have risen much more than others, so given the ongoing politics in the background, [its] easy to penalise Australia versus other trading partners, he said.

Coal producers have been concerned political tensions with China were effecting the trade for months.

Vessels are waiting outside in China to be discharged, and definitely, Australia is not front of the queue, Ivan Glasenberg, chief executive of Glencore, the miner and commodities trader, told analysts in August. Yeah, that is affecting the coal business.

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

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## panama hat

> It's great how he just proves your point on cue.


Yes, he really is a special kind of stupid, but then if you hang around Klondyke long enough it's bound to rub off. 






> Now the chinkies are using cotton as a stick.





> Beijing ordered its state-owned enterprises to stop buying Australian coal,


Cue OhOh about how badly treated China was during colonisation and . . . and . . . just look at Guantanamo Bay


Any country or producer/manufacturer/grower etc... that thinks hitching your wagon to the China-train is a good idea deserve to be screwed

----------


## sabang

Any fool that thinks unhitching your wagon from the China train is either attainable or a good idea deserves to be a citizen of a second or third world country! That's about as ridiculous as saying unhitch your wagon, in trade and commerce terms, from the American train. Or the EU, Indian subcontinent or any other major economic entity.

As it happens, two can play that game- namely China too. The recent invective emanating from some RW politicians in Australia, predictably amplified by the Murdoch press, has caused considerable discomfiture in Chinese circles too- both the CCP, business sector, and the Chinese diaspora. So China is actively looking to diversify it's imports away from over reliance on Australia. How on earth this could be considered any sort of victory for Oz though, sure beats me.

----------


## panama hat

> Any fool that thinks unhitching your wagon from the China train is either attainable or a good idea deserves to be a citizen of a second or third world country!


Clearly your definition of 'hitching your wagon' needs explaining.  

You have one wagon.  You hitch this wagon on the China Express . . . it's smarter to create several wagons to hitch to the China Express, Domestic Express, USA Express, EU Express, Aus Express etc...

Is this information not attainable in 'second' or 'third' world countries?  Added to which, the discussion is Australia and China where an unhitching of the One-Wagon-Policy would be a very good idea

----------


## sabang

Anyway, attempts at diversifying Australian (in particular) exports from over reliance China are not a bad thing- this has been a government agenda since before this recent chinese schtick.
What is a bad thing is believing that sabotaging Australian exports to China is a good thing. You do not need to damage your existing, lucrative export markets to expand elsewhere. Indeed, that is downright stupid.

----------


## OhOh

> he discussion is Australia and China where an unhitching of the One-Wagon-Policy would be a very good idea


As previously posted the idiots focusing on one market always leads to doom, always. 

Some perspective:

Australian exports by country:



China Exports by country:



China Exports By Country

The two countries imports show similarly; 

Australian imports, from China (No. 1 -  27%), 

China imports, from Australia (No. 6 - 5.4%). 

All 2019 data.

----------


## panama hat

> idiots


You and Klondyke . . .

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Anyway, attempts at diversifying Australian (in particular) exports from over reliance China are not a bad thing- this has been a government agenda since before this recent chinese schtick.
> What is a bad thing is believing that sabotaging Australian exports to China is a good thing. You do not need to damage your existing, lucrative export markets to expand elsewhere. Indeed, that is downright stupid.


No, you should kiss chinky arse and give up anything to keep their patronage.  ***




*** Of course you shouldn't you snivelling chinky sycophant.

----------


## Hugh Cow

[QUOTE=OhOh;4172781]They being the Australian government who introduced and changed previously agreed and working accommodations.


Please show me where the Australian government has broken its' agreement with China. Show me where it says the chinese can put an 80% tarriff on australian barley in the free trade agreement. Or maybe you can show me the justification for the chinese govts "investigation" into Australia "dumping" wine in China when it is one of the more expensive wines in Chinae which runs totally counter to a dumping argument, or maybe suspension of  australian beef shipments over "isssues" with health certificates yet the beef is exported to markets such as the EU and Japan with some of the most stringent health requirements in the world without "issues" as opposed to China, where they slaughter just about anything in some of the most unhealthy and inhumane conditions in the world. (Yes I have been to China and seen for myself and have also been too many Australian abattoirs and am fully aware of the health regulations that are enforced there) Coincidentally it just all happened after Australia called for an investigation into a virus that has crippled the world and killed many, that originated in China and this apparently "hurt the chinese peoples feelings". 
If the virus originated in Australia, Australians would be demanding an inquiry into the Virus and its source and would support an international call to do so, but of course the Chinese population can make no such demands on their government. 
I wait, yet again for another answer which like my last questions to you will no doubt go unanswered, because you are incapable of answering a direct question. You know it will expose the lies and misinformation in the house of cards you post from.

----------


## panama hat

> I wait, yet again for another answer which like my last questions to you will no doubt go unanswered, because you are incapable of answering a direct question. You know it will expose the lies and misinformation in the house of cards you post from.


Basically he's an apologist piece of shit, can't back up his assertions aside from quoting Pravda, China News etc...  Easy to criticise others but won't do self-critique

----------


## OhOh

> Please show me where the Australian government has broken its' agreement with China.


Australian wine subsidies, Confusious study groups, allowing Chinese students to study in OZ, labeling the as yet unproven virus as being of Chines origin - before the WHO findings have been published .....
Search your self if you desire to.

Here's one you may have read:

China sparks global trade war fears after hitting Australia with huge 80% tariff as punishment for demanding virus probe – The Sun




> the free trade agreement


You have a link to the agreement you can share?




> australian beef shipments over "isssues" with health certificates


Search your self if you desire to.




> that originated in China


You have a link to that fact you can share?




> the Chinese population can make no such demands on their government.


See who demanded an impartial, international enquiry, not one focused solely on China, WHO led inquiries. Not OZ. 




> that originated in China


You have the results of the WHO inquiry? Please post a link.

Too much koolaid for you.

----------


## OhOh

> their pesky Wuhan Virus


Post a link to the published WHO inquiry findings, to substantiate your accusation ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Post a link to the published WHO inquiry findings, to substantiate your accusation



The WHO? The ones who helped the chinkies cover it up in the first place? And who are letting the chinkies block access to global experts while the chinkies forensically clean up the crime scene?

You stupid boy.

Let the chinkies speak for themselves:

----------


## harrybarracuda

<derp>

----------


## panama hat

He hates facts . . .

----------


## OhOh

^ ^^
Neither of you have presented here on TD any facts.

----------


## panama hat

> Neither of you have presented here on TD any facts.


Oh, I like this game.

Ahem . . . 

_Yes, we have.  You haven't. 


_(and 'facts' according to the CCP and RT/Pravda are not facts.)

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Australian wine subsidies, Confusious study groups, allowing Chinese students to study in OZ, labeling the as yet unproven virus as being of Chines origin - before the WHO findings have been published .....
> Search your self if you desire to.
> 
> Here's one you may have read:
> 
> China sparks global trade war fears after hitting Australia with huge 80% tariff as punishment for demanding virus probe – The Sun
> 
> 
> You have a link to the agreement you can share?
> ...


You do realise of course that every major country recognises that the virus started in China. Will you go silent when your BS is discovered yet again? I seem to remember how you defended Russia over the Skripol poisoning and went strangely silent when Britain produced the evidence. No doubt you and Tonto still believe they went on a Days sight seeing tour of Salisbury. Doesn't everybody from Russia?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^ ^^
> Neither of you have presented here on TD any facts.


It's very simple HooHoo. If Chinastan wants to prove the virus didn't start in Wuhan, then they should let the international team of experts in to demonstrate it.

The fact that they haven't tells you all that you need to know.

----------


## sabang

> the virus didn't start in Wuhan,


Actually the most credible evidence I have encountered so far suggests that the virus mutated in a massive cave system (bat rookery) in Yunnan Province, then spread via the Wuhan markets, where many of the harvested bats were sent.

----------


## Norton

> harvested bats


My favorite snack food. Deep fried in batter with chips.  :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

China be China . . . give or take a few hundred kms in a large place.  Semantics, but for OhOh enough to refute, deflect, cry in anguish etc...

----------


## Klondyke

> ... then they should let the international team of experts in to demonstrate it.


Wondering which laboratory of the numerous biological weapons - there are so many worldwide despite the ban - will "let the international team of experts in"... (just curious...)

----------


## pseudolus

> My favorite snack food. Deep fried in batter with chips.


I prefer them grilled with a chimichurri

----------


## pseudolus

> Wondering which laboratory of the numerous biological weapons - there are so many worldwide despite the ban - will "let the international team of experts in"... (just curious...)


Harry is a twat - the LAB they are talking about was under US control FFS. Why would the Murkins let in an investigation 
Why Would the US Have Funded the Controversial Wuhan Lab? – The Diplomat

All this idea of it being created in a lab it utter nonsense though. The PCR tests are calibrated to test for generic coronas, and refined by reports from "Chinese social media". They are worthless.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Harry is a twat - the LAB they are talking about was under US control FFS. Why would the Murkins let in an investigation 
> Why Would the US Have Funded the Controversial Wuhan Lab? – The Diplomat
> 
> All this idea of it being created in a lab it utter nonsense though. The PCR tests are calibrated to test for generic coronas, and refined by reports from "Chinese social media". They are worthless.


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the whackjob is off on one.............

----------


## OhOh

> You do realise of course that every major country recognises


You sure? How about some links to the "major county's" factual evidence.




> I seem to remember how you defended Russia over the Skripol poisoning and went strangely silent when Britain produced the evidence.


I presume you have evidence of my "strange silence" for us to see?

UK produced evidence, please post a link to it's facts. Proving that the poison was used, the poison which by the "world's" opinion kills in seconds, was in some way used in the Salisbury on two Russians and two brits.

While it's amusing for you and others here on TD to keep repeating the claims on various topics, the fact remains that all, many or the ones mostly claimed are non-existent. 

Posting the nonsense again and again is not illustrating anything except the posters inability to accept their inadequacy in debate.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You sure? How about some links to the "major county's" factual evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> I presume you have evidence of my "strange silence" for us to see?
> 
> UK produced evidence, please post a link to it's facts. Proving that the poison was used, the poison which by the "world's" opinion kills in seconds, was in some way used in the Salisbury on two Russians and two brits.
> 
> While it's amusing for you and others here on TD to keep repeating the claims on various topics, the fact remains that all, many or the ones mostly claimed are non-existent. 
> ...



The toxin was identified at the OPCW labs in Holland, where they have experts on the subject.

You remember, the ones where they caught the Russians red-handed trying to hack into them.

REVEALED: Russian spies tried to hack chemical weapons lab investigating Salisbury attack

----------


## harrybarracuda

Meanwhile, back to the topic, what other dirty tricks have the chinkies got planned to stop Australia pressing for a proper investigation into the Wuhan virus?

----------


## Looper

*Australia to rejoin 'quad' naval exercises in move certain to infuriate Beijing*

Diplomatic tensions with China are set to be reignited after Australia was formally invited to take part in large scale military exercises next month involving the United States, Japan and India.


Key points:

    Australia has not participated in Exercise Malabar since 2007
    The decision to stop was made due to concerns over relations with China
    Beijing views the quadrilateral exercises as threatening

The Australian Defence Force (ADF) last took part in Exercise Malabar in 2007, before the Australian Government withdrew from the naval drills the following year because of concerns over relations with Beijing.

Defence Minister Linda Reynolds has confirmed Australia will participate in Exercise Malabar 2020, which she described as a "milestone activity".

"High-end military exercises like Malabar are key to enhancing Australia's maritime capabilities, building interoperability with our close partners, and demonstrating our collective resolve to support an open and prosperous Indo-Pacific," Senator Reynolds said.

    "Exercise Malabar also showcases the deep trust between four major Indo-Pacific democracies and their shared will to work together on common security interests."

Japan and the United States have been pushing diplomatically for Australia's return to the Quadrilateral exercises, which China views as threatening and an effort to contain its military reach.
Exercise Malabar off the coast of Okinawa, Japan, with planes seen on an US aircraft carrier.
The exercises improve the four countries' capacity to work together across the region.(Reuters: Nobuhiro Kubo)

India had been reluctant to allow the ADF to rejoin the powerful military grouping, but the country's Defence Ministry confirmed a long-anticipated invitation had finally been made.

"As India seeks to increase cooperation with other countries in the maritime security domain and in the light of increased defence cooperation with Australia, Malabar 2020 will see the participation of the Australian Navy," the ministry said.

"The participants of Exercise Malabar 2020 are engaging to enhance safety and security in the maritime domain.

"They collectively support free, open and inclusive Indo-Pacific and remain committed to a rules-based international order."
Decision makes Quad 'very formidable'



Sources say HMAS Brisbane could take part in the exercises, but this has not been confirmed.(ABC News: Rachel Riga)

Australia is yet to announce which naval assets will deploy to Exercise Malabar in the Indian Ocean, but defence sources have suggested a warship such as HMAS Hobart or HMAS Brisbane would be likely to go.

The Malabar invitation follows a Quad foreign ministers' meeting in Tokyo earlier this month, attended by Foreign Minister Marise Payne

"It will bolster the ability of India, Australia, Japan and the United States to work together to uphold peace and stability across our region," Senator Payne said.
If Morrison's defence strategy sounds like war talk, that's because it is

If there's a benefit to any anxiety caused by Scott Morrison's bleak outlook of security in our region, it's that it will save time.
Read more

"This builds on the Comprehensive Strategic Partnership, to which Prime Minister Morrison and Prime Minister Modi agreed on 4 June 2020, and which I progressed with my counterpart, Minister of External Affairs Jaishankar, this month when we met in Tokyo."

India's former Naval spokesman DK Sharma, who has long advocated for Australia's return to the Malabar exercises, said having all four nations taking part made the Quad a more formal security alliance.

"It makes it very, very formidable," DK Sharma told the ABC.

"The way [China] is moving out, the first island chain and the second island chain, now you have Japan on top, you have the

Pacific more or less under the control of the US, then we have Australia which will have a good look towards either the Pacific or Indian Ocean Pacific, and then we have India.

"None of us are behaving in a way China is behaving  there is a difference, we are all talking security, prosperity, peace, tranquillity  Those guys are only talking about grabbing the nations, making their ports, militarising them, grabbing the islands."


https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-10-20/australia-rejoins-naval-exercise-in-move-certain-to-anger-china/12784186

----------


## harrybarracuda

Well done Aus. They are going to fuck with you anyway, you might as well fuck them back.

----------


## deeks

Australia is gone already, just look at Victoria now, the chinese ccp would be proud. yesterday they had 7 covid cases!!! like fark me, weld the doors shut.

----------


## panama hat

> Well done Aus. They are going to fuck with you anyway, you might as well fuck them back.


Agreed - China is on an anti-Australia gig right now so why keep kow-towing . . . can't trust the CCP as far as you can throw it




> Australia is gone already





> just look at Victoria now, the chinese ccp would be proud





> yesterday they had 7 covid cases!!!





> like fark me, weld the doors shut.


Demented ramblings - why are you on these threads now, spouting your crap outside the US-threads?

----------


## Looper

*Australian warships to pull out of Middle East as focus shifts to Asia-Pacific, China
*
A three-decades-long Australian naval presence in the Middle East will come to an abrupt end this year as the Federal Government grapples with an increasingly uncertain strategic environment closer to home.



Key points:

    The shift was flagged in the Government's recent Defence Strategic Update
    It declared the military would focus more on the Indo-Pacific and Australia's immediate region
    China has engaged in a massive naval build-up and is asserting its control over the South China Sea

Defence Minister Linda Reynolds has announced Australia will no longer send a Royal Australian Navy ship to the Middle East every year.

The last Australian Navy ship deployed to the region, HMAS Toowoomba, returned to Australia in June this year.

Australia will also withdraw from the United States-led naval coalition patrolling the Strait of Hormuz at the end of 2020.

That means around 30 years of Australian maritime operations in the Middle East — largely focussed on counter-terrorism and counter-piracy operations — will soon come to an end.

In a statement, Senator Reynolds said the Government's priorities had shifted.

"This year alone has seen [the] Navy respond to the bushfire and COVID-19 crises, a five-ship deployment throughout South-East Asia and the Pacific, a continued commitment to initiatives under the Pacific Step Up, and several highly successful activities with our regional partners," Minister Reynolds said.

    "We now face an increasingly challenging strategic environment which is placing greater demand on ADF resources closer to home.

"As a result, the Australian Defence Force will reduce its naval presence in the Middle East to enable more resources to be deployed in our region."

The shift was flagged in the Government's recent Defence Strategic Update, which declared that deteriorating strategic circumstances would force the military to focus more sharply on the Indo-Pacific and Australia's immediate region.
Ships from the US and Indian navies, and Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force transit in formation.
The Australian Navy will also re-join the Malabar naval exercises with the US, Japan and India.(Supplied: DoD/Chris Cavagnaro)

China has engaged in a massive naval build-up over the last decade, as well as asserting increasing control over the contested waters of the South China Sea by building a series of military fortifications.

The relationship between the United States and China has also become increasingly hostile, sharply raising the risk of conflict in the region.

Australia has participated in a growing number of naval exercises in the region with a series of allies and partners, including the United States and Japan.

Earlier this year Australian warships encountered the Chinese Navy while sailing near contested islands claimed by Beijing on their way to trilateral exercises.
If Morrison's defence strategy sounds like war talk, that's because it is

If there's a benefit to any anxiety caused by Scott Morrison's bleak outlook of security in our region, it's that it will save time.
Read more

Next month the Australian Navy will also re-join the Malabar naval exercises with the US, Japan and India after a hiatus of more than a decade.

Senior officials, military officers and Morrison Government ministers have been contemplating the shift away from the Middle East for several years.

Last year there was debate inside the Federal Government when the Trump Administration asked Australia to join a US-led naval coalition to protect ships in the Strait of Hormuz near Iran.

In the end, the Morrison Government agreed to send a surveillance aircraft and a frigate to join the mission.

But one Government source told the ABC the decision was "pretty hotly contested."

The Navy's Chief of Joint Operations, Lieutenant General Greg Bilton, said the change announced by the Government was "historic" and Senator Reynolds declared Australia could be "proud" of its naval contribution.

"For over 30 years we have supported freedom of navigation, maritime security and the free flow of commerce in the Middle East," she said.

"In cooperation with our partners, our commitments have been invaluable in disrupting global drugs trade, supporting the reduction of funding lines to terrorism activity and building the capacity of regional forces."

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-10-23/australia-will-stop-sending-navy-to-middle-east-to-shift-focus/12808118

----------


## Looper

*Australian wine imports 'suspended' by China as trade tensions with Beijing continue*

China's Government has dramatically raised the stakes in its economic campaign against Australia, with multiple Chinese importers receiving verbal directives to stop shipments of Australian wine this week  dealing a blow to a market worth more than a billion dollars last year.
Key points:

    Industry sources say wine imports will not clear Chinese customs after Friday
    Wine exports to China totalled $1.26 billion in 2019
    The Federal Trade Minister says the reports are concerning and the Government is trying to get more information

At least four wine importers have been advised by their local distributors to stop importing Australian wine, with Chinese Commerce officials in multiple cities arranging "off-the-record" meetings where phones were banned to relay the new directive.

Australian industry sources have told the ABC they have been warned by importers that shipments of Australian wine will not clear customs after Friday.

Several distributors also told the ABC that wine was not the only target, with shipments of Australian lobster, sugar, coal, timber, wool, barley and copper ore to also be unofficially suspended from November 6, dealing a potential five to six billion-dollar blow to Australia's economy.

But Chinese authorities are rejecting claims of new directives, with representatives of major ports at Ningbo and Guangzhou telling the ABC they have not received any new notice of changes.

Officials at China's Commerce Ministry have reportedly denied the existence of any new directives targeting Australia.

A Shanghai-based importer said the reported disruption to wine imports appeared to be a response to a recent increase in shipments of wine arriving from Australia, possibly ahead of the introduction of tariffs.
China's latest move straight from its punishment playbook

The Morrison Government seems to be betting that all it needs to do is hold its nerve and hold the line when it comes to China's trade threats, writes Stephen Dziedzic.
Read more

Earlier this year, China announced it was investigating claims Australia had sold wine below the cost of production and subsidised its farmers, prompting fears tariffs could be introduced.

Last year, Australia's wine exports to China totalled $1.26 billion dollars  far and away the largest foreign market.

During the September quarter, the value of exports to China jumped 23 per cent compared to the same period last year, indicating a COVID recovery and perhaps a pre-emptive buy up amid speculation sanctions would be introduced.

Already, one Hangzhou-based wine importer has told the ABC he is shifting to orders of New Zealand wine, but a Shanghai-based importer said shipments of New Zealand wine were also in the firing line.
A vineyard
The Federal Government says given China has said Australia is not being specifically targeted it should address the current concerns.(ABC News: Dean Faulkner)

China's Ministry of Commerce did not respond to an emailed question and listed phone numbers went unanswered.

A representative of China Customs referred the ABC to previous comments made by China's Foreign Ministry regarding timber, lobsters and barley, saying there was not anything new to add.

Many exports have already been targeted for various forms of restrictions in the Chinese market, including the ongoing anti-subsidy and anti-dumping investigations for wine, a freeze on new coal orders, huge tariffs on barley, a ban on some timber exports allegedly due to pests, and in recent days the hold up of Australian lobsters at a Shanghai port.

But Australia's $3.7 billion dollar annual copper exports to China have not been previously targeted, nor have sugar exports, which last year were worth around $100 million.
Chinese Commerce Minister Zhong Shan pauses during a press conference.
Chinese Commerce Minister Zhong Shan has refused to speak to Australia's Trade Minister about the ongoing export issues.(AP: Andy Wong)
'We shouldn't jump to conclusions', Trade Minister says

China's Commerce Minister Zhong Shan has repeatedly rejected requests from Australia's Trade Minister Simon Birmingham to talk directly about China's various trade disputes with Australia.

Senator Birmingham has sought a call with Mr Zhong since May, when China began targeting barley and beef exports.

In a statement, the Trade Minister said the "numerous reports of difficulties that different Australian exports are facing on entry into China are of concern".

    "Whilst we shouldn't jump to conclusions, we are working closely with the various industries who have been the subject of these reports," he said.

"We also continue to make enquiries with Chinese authorities to seek clarity and to encourage them to address areas of concern."

Senator Birmingham also said in the spirit of China's previous statements that Australia was not being targeted, it should address the current concerns.

The latest measures come just days before China opens an annual import fair in Shanghai, in which Chinese government representatives are set to again repeat that China is "opening the door further" to free trade.
Freshly cooked Western Rock Lobster
Tonnes of live lobsters were recently stranded at Chinese airports and clearance houses while waiting to be inspected by Customs officials.

Chinese officials and state media deny any political motives for the various trade measures but have previously linked the economic relationship to the need for more "mutual respect".

"The Government should be more measured in the way it communicates about China," said Madeleine King, Labor's Trade spokeswoman.

She also suggested a forum "to listen to corporate leaders who are gravely concerned about the relationship, and who have a legitimate place in this important national discussion".

"This would provide the Government with practical advice while indicating to everyone that we value our trading relationship with China," Ms King said.
Australian exporters caught up in uncertainty

There was speculation late on Tuesday that Australia's wheat trade with China could also be impacted by new trade sanctions.
Iron ore out of bounds

China has targeted everything from Australian barley to coal, wine to tourists and students, but it isn't likely to come after our biggest export, iron ore. Ian Verrender explains why.
Read more

While some industry sources have told the ABC they do not believe the trade was likely to be affected, others expected to hear more from Chinese authorities on Wednesday.

Chinese authorities had already warned of increased inspections to wheat shipments.

In a typical year, the Australian wheat trade with China is worth around $400 million and represents about eight per cent of the export market.

The ABC understands Australian wheat exporters currently have significant shipments of wheat booked to sail to China in coming weeks. 

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-11-03/australian-wine-export-disrupted-china-trade-tensions/12840836

----------


## sabang

Lobster now too. Thanks to a few big mouths, and the predictable sensationalism & exaggeration of our predominantly Murdoch owned press (which really must be changed) Australia is being bitch slapped, at the cost of many billions in lost profit. And guess what else- it has only just started, if China wills it so. They have no obligation to buy from you. How clever do you feel now big mouths? How is amerka gonna reward you for your sycophancy, Dep'ty Sheriff? Another losing war probably, at the cost of more young lives and more wasted billions. Meanwhile for many of your constituents, it's back to beans on toast and porridge.


*Australia’s economic dependency on China 'will not change', says former ambassador to Beijing*




Geoff Raby argues the suggestion Australia can turn to other markets is ‘nothing other than wishful thinking’


Australia is likely to keep suffering economic harm from “repeated rounds of Chinese economic coercion” and needs to find a way to reset the relationship, a former ambassador to Beijing has warned.

Seafood exporters are the latest industry group to report disruptions in accessing the Chinese market and Geoff Raby, the Australian ambassador to China from 2007 to 2011, said Australia needed China more than the other way around.

Raby, in an interview with Guardian Australia, argued that Australia had joined itself at the hip with the United States over the past few years in seeking to resist China’s rise – an approach he believed went against Australia’s interests.

That is despite the Morrison government’s assertions – including at high-level talks in Washington in July – that Canberra is pursuing its own policy and is not doing anything to injure the important relationship with Beijing.

In a new book published on Tuesday, Raby suggests Australia’s strategy for managing the rise of China has been “incremental, reactive to others’ agendas, and as such, incoherent”.


How much is China's trade war really costing Australia?


He also says talk about Australia significantly diversifying its economic relationship with China by turning to other markets is “nothing other than wishful thinking”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...dor-to-beijing

----------


## Backspin

> ^ Raby, in an interview with Guardian Australia, argued that* Australia had  joined itself at the hip with the United States over the past few years  in seeking to resist China’s rise*


Yet people like Panama skat are denying that this is what Australia has done. Anytime someone brings up the fact that Thailand and the Philippines are taking a balanced approach and are playing the powers off of each other, they say "oh thats what Australia is doing". Except no. That is not what Australia is doing. As the ambassador in this quote is saying.

----------


## panama hat

> Yet people like Panama skat


I'm permanently nested in your tiny brain now, right Skidmark . . . 

And no, that's not what I've said - but keep lying as you always do. Feel free to quote me but you won't, as you never do when called on it.


So, tell us more about the Muslim killer in Quebec . . . which has the largest number of Muslims in Canada . . . both your claims and proven to be untrue.


Come on, Skidmark . . . tell us all about it.  Nazis calling themselves socialists . . .  The EU breaking WHO rules vis-a-vis the PIs.  Etc ad infinitum.

You are a one-man liying machine - hence your bromance with Trump and other dictator wannabes

----------


## Looper

*Melbourne man becomes first charged under foreign interference laws*

The 65-year-old Melbourne man who has become the first person charged in Australia under foreign interference laws is a prominent member of Victoria's South-East Asian Chinese community and belongs to groups connected to China's overseas influence efforts.


Key points:

    The 65-year-old man is the president of an organisation affiliated with the Chinese Government
    Mr Duong was charged under the new laws on Thursday after a year-long investigation
    Parliament passed the foreign interference laws in 2018

The Australian Federal Police charged Duong Di Sanh, also known as Sunny Duong, with preparing to commit foreign interference.

The offence carries a potential jail term of 10 years, but the exact nature of his alleged offences is not yet know.

Sunny Duong is the deputy chairperson of the Museum of Chinese Australian History in Melbourne, and is the President of the Oceania Federation of Chinese Organisations from Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos Inc.

Mr Duong has been linked with the China Council for the Promotion of Peaceful National Reunification  which is affiliated with the Chinese Government's overseas influence arm, the United Front Work Department.

Mr Duong appeared next to Acting Immigration and Multicultural Affairs Minister Alan Tudge at a press conference in June, when he handed over a cheque for more than $37,000 to the Royal Melbourne Hospital to help with coronavirus research and preparation.

There is no suggestion Mr Tudge has any involvement with Mr Duong beyond that meeting.
Alan Tudge and Sunny Duong "elbow bump" at a press conference, standing behind microphones.
Acting Immigration and Multicultural Affairs Minister Alan Tudge and Sunny Duong appeared at an event in Melbourne together.(ABC News)

He was released on bail to an address in the Melbourne suburb of Surrey Hills after he appeared before the Melbourne Magistrates Court on Thursday afternoon.

His next court date is in March next year.

Neighbours have confirmed his identity, and told the ABC that police were at the house for about seven hours on October 16. Police were also at the home on Thursday morning.

Police said the charges followed a year-long investigation by the Counter Foreign Interference Taskforce, led by domestic spy agency ASIO and the AFP.

AFP Deputy Commissioner Ian McCartney said the man was the first to be charged with a foreign interference offence since the laws were passed in 2018.

"The CFI Taskforce has taken preventative action to disrupt this individual at an early stage," Deputy Commissioner McCartney said.

    "Foreign interference is contrary to Australia's national interest, it goes to the heart of our democracy.

"It is corrupting and deceptive, and goes beyond routine diplomatic influence practiced by governments."

The laws, which were rushed through Parliament in 2018, were designed to strengthen foreign espionage offences, and force people working for foreign companies and governments to declare their activities.
Black and white photo (except for brown shoes) of man in suit, top half obscured by darkness, and his shadow
Intelligence chiefs have warned the threat of foreign interference has been intensifying.(Unsplash: Rene Böhmer)

Intelligence chiefs have repeatedly warned that the threat of foreign interference has been intensifying.

In its annual report, the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) warns "almost every sector of Australian society is a potential target of foreign interference, and the threat manifests itself in different but equally unacceptable ways".

In June, the Australian Federal Police and intelligence agents raided the home and parliamentary office of NSW Upper House MP Shaoquett Moselmane as part of a separate foreign interference investigation into his part-time staffer John Zhang.

Mr Zhang has denied any wrongdoing and launched a High Court challenge to the validity of the investigation. Mr Moselmane has said that he is not a focus of that investigation.

Australian authorities also revoked the two visas of two Chinese scholars and raided the homes of four Chinese journalists.

https://www.abc .net.au/news/2020-11-05/first-person-charged-foreign-interference-laws/12852974

----------


## OhOh

> "The CFI Taskforce has taken preventative action to disrupt this individual at an early stage," Deputy Commissioner McCartney said.
> 
> "Foreign interference is contrary to Australia's national interest, it goes to the heart of our democracy.
> 
> "It is corrupting and deceptive, and goes beyond routine diplomatic influence practiced by governments."





> In its annual report, the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) warns "almost every sector of Australian society is a potential target of foreign interference, and the threat manifests itself in different but equally unacceptable ways"


Investigating for 1 year. One wonders when, if ever, any details of his "crime" will be made public.

----------


## panama hat

> Investigating for 1 year. One wonders when, if ever, any details of his "crime" will be made public.


Luckily someone like that would just be shot in China, eh OhOh

----------


## harrybarracuda

Arf

----------


## Looper

*Canberra to unveil plans to reassert Australia's influence in South-East Asia*

The Morrison Government is about to unveil several new development initiatives to reassert Australia's influence in South-East Asia as China continues to expand its presence across the region.


Key points:

    The Prime Minster will announce new aid programs in health, governance and infrastructure
    Canberra will unveil a major development program for Mekong basin countries
    The announcement comes after years of successive cuts to Australia's aid budget

Prime Minister Scott Morrison will make the commitments over the weekend at two crucial regional meetings: the ASEAN-Australia Summit and the East Asia Summit.

Both summits are being held virtually because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

The ABC has been told Mr Morrison will promise to expand Australia's development assistance in South-East Asia by announcing several new programs designed to improve health, governance and infrastructure.

The announcements will include a series of new health programs for the region, as well as an initiative to provide "high-calibre advice" to South-East Asian governments on infrastructure funding.

China's Government has poured billions of dollars into major infrastructure projects across South-East Asia.

The Australian Government is particularly anxious about the proliferation of Chinese-backed dams along the vast Mekong River, wreaking environmental devastation in countries like Laos and Cambodia. 

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-11-14/australia-canberra-new-aid-south-east-asia-scott-morrison/12883088

----------


## sabang

Erm, excuse me but .... "*Re* assert*"?*  Kinda wishful thinking that.

----------


## panama hat

You don't know about Australia's influence and projects, military programs etc?

----------


## OhOh

One hopes the OZ citizens can afford such "investments".




> Mr Morrison will promise to expand Australia's  development assistance in South-East Asia by announcing several new  programs designed to improve health, governance and  infrastructure.





> China's Government has poured billions of dollars  into major infrastructure projects across South-East Asia


The numbers suggest a tightening of belts all around will be required?

_Australia GDP                 
_
_                     Last_
_                     Previous_
_                     Highest_
_                     Lowest_
_                     Unit_


_                      GDP Growth Rate                  
_
_-7.00_
_-0.30_
_4.40_
_-7.00_
_                                      percent_
 [+]

_                      GDP Annual Growth Rate                  
_
_-6.30
_
_1.60
_
_9.00_
_-6.30_
_                                      percent
_


Australia GDP | 1960-2019 Data | 2020-2022 Forecast | Historical | Chart | News

----------


## OhOh

> You don't know about Australia's influence and projects, military programs etc?


Care to substantiate your allegation?

----------


## panama hat

> Care to substantiate your allegation?


"Allegations"? 
This isn't a Chinese communist 'truth' tribunal. I'd suggest you educate yourself just that little bit to enter this discussion.

----------


## OhOh

> I'd suggest you educate yourself just that little bit to enter this discussion.


No examples to support your allegation then. 

How unusual.

----------


## panama hat

> No examples to support your allegation then.


You need to find out what an 'allegation' is as you have no clue and say it yourself:


> How unusual.


Ok, here's a hint . . . read up on Australian forces Borneo . . . that'll give you a start - then maybe you can tell us what you find funny about a small child being sexually molested, as you so happily chat about in another thread

----------


## sabang

PNG & Oceania we maybe have some sway- otherwise no point pretending Australia is any big schwinging dick on the international stage. 
Neither should we try to be imo, our best policy is to maintain friendly relations with all countries, as best as possible.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> PNG & Oceania we maybe have some sway- otherwise no point pretending Australia is any big schwinging dick on the international stage. 
> Neither should we try to be imo, our best policy is to maintain friendly relations with all countries, as best as possible.


Or perhaps to not eschew relations with stronger, friendlier international partners rather than the robbing, blackmailing chinkies.

----------


## sabang

We certainly know what you think 'arry, but of course you also will be aware of their vital importance to us economically.
Even if I personally think my best customer is a cnut, but he brings in the bikkies and pays on time- well I find absolutely no upside in telling him so!

----------


## OhOh

> Australian forces Borneo


Anything in the 21st century of note?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> We certainly know what you think 'arry, but of course you also will be aware of their vital importance to us economically.
> Even if I personally think my best customer is a cnut, but he brings in the bikkies and pays on time- well I find absolutely no upside in telling him so!


Even if he starts telling you what you can say and do.

Bend over for the chinky dick you pussy, and don't forget to swallow when you're told.

----------


## sabang

And laugh all the way to the bank.  :Smile:  We care not what a pom working in the mid east might think or say. We do care about what puts ample bread on our rather expensive table, and keeps it that way.

----------


## OhOh

> Bend over for the chinky dick you pussy, and don't forget to swallow when you're told.


Oz and NZ have had centuries of practice.

SE/East Asia sign up to a future as equals:

Attachment 60039
*Asean on track to ink world’s largest trade pact at summit*




> Asean on track to ink world’s largest trade pact at summit – RCEP


*India’s farewell to ASEAN as it boards RCEP train*




> India’s farewell to ASEAN as it boards RCEP train

----------


## hallelujah

> And laugh all the way to the bank.  We care not what a pom working in the mid east might think or say. We do care about what puts ample bread on our rather expensive table, and keeps it that way.


Aren't you originally from the foggy isles, sabang?

----------


## lom

> Aren't you originally from the foggy isles, sabang?


aren't all of them?  :Smile:

----------


## sabang

Yup, born in brum- I have dual citizenship. But my family left blighty when I was nine- and my country of first affiliation is obviously the lucky country.
^Think our indigenous folk might get a bit uppity about that! Above all, we are multicultural. And lucky.

----------


## hallelujah

Very quick, lom!




> Yup, born in brum- I have dual citizenship. But my family left blighty when I was nine- and my country of first affiliation is obviously the lucky country.
> .


You can follow Oz sports teams when they're winning and you can follow English sports teams when we're winn...

...Nevermind.  :Smile:

----------


## sabang

Some stereotypes are true- sports obsessed, this place. :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> And laugh all the way to the bank.


Most countries who bend over for the chinkies end up owing them money.

----------


## panama hat

> "Re assert"





> examples





> Ok, here's a hint





> Anything in the 21st century of note?


Typical disingenuous fuckwit again, eh Ohoh . . . 






> Most countries who bend over for the chinkies end up owing them money.


Very true


But simply talking abut China and how big and strong they are and how we should suck their . . . misses the point of the article.  Why are so many here Skidmark-like and skim the title and then go on to completely miss the point:




> development initiatives to reassert Australia's influence in South-East Asia





> improve health, governance and infrastructure.

----------


## Looper

*ASIO launches first public awareness campaign to warn Australians of foreign spies on social media*

The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) is warning of the dangers posed by foreign spies who use social networking sites to cultivate and groom potential targets in espionage operations.
Key points:

    The ASIO director-general said spies were targeting Australians they believed may give up sensitive information
    He said more than one country was using social networking sites to identify and groom Australians
    A former CIA officer was recently convicted of espionage after being recruited via LinkedIn

In its first public awareness campaign, ASIO has collaborated with its international Five Eyes intelligence partners to urge people online to "think before you link".

ASIO director-general Mike Burgess said foreign intelligence agencies were known to target Australians through social media and professional networking platforms if they believed they may give up sensitive information.

"As my mum always used to say, 'If it's too good to be true, it probably is,'" Mr Burgess told the ABC.

"Now that might sound a little risk adverse or paranoid, but actually if someone is offering something really good and you don't really know who it is, you might want to pause and think."

Last year, ASIO warned in its annual report that "hostile intelligence services" were using social media to target people across business and government.

In the United States, former CIA officer Kevin Mallory was recently convicted of espionage after being recruited via professional networking site LinkedIn.

A report in the New York Times in 2019 also said China was using LinkedIn to try to cultivate foreign spies.

The ASIO boss is declining to say which particular nations are behind online attempts to lure Australians, but Mr Burgess believes there are several culprits.

    "It is the view of my organisation, ASIO, that there is more than one country using social networking sites to identify, groom and cultivate relationships with Australians that have access to sensitive information," he said.

Mr Burgess revealed some social media platforms were reluctant to cooperate with his intelligence agency when it asked for assistance in shutting down espionage threats.

"We get cooperation from companies across the board — some of them are helpful, some of them are not so helpful," Mr Burgess said. 

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-11-17/asio-warns-foreign-spies-grooming-australians-on-social-media/12889228

----------


## harrybarracuda

Of course, the snooping little chinky fuckers want whatever they can get.

Commercial information, intellectual property, state secrets, they'll take the lot if you don't stamp on the little bastards.

----------


## helge

> Australian  Intelligence


Hmm....

----------


## OhOh

^^



> A former *CIA officer* was recently* convicted* of espionage





> In the United States, *former CIA officer* Kevin Mallory was recently *convicted* of espionage





> A *report* in the New York Times in 2019 also *said China*





> Mr Burgess believes there are* several culprits.*
> 
> "It is the view of my organisation, ASIO, that there is* more than one country* using social networking sites to identify, groom and cultivate relationships with Australians that have access to sensitive information


One or possibly two convictions v one report.

Many countries have diplomats/spies in OZ as is the case elsewhere.

At least the UK diplomats can act, swim and retrieve!




> British Consul Stephen Ellison

----------


## harrybarracuda

> At least the UK diplomats can act, swim and retrieve!


Yes, it's a pleasant change from those chinky fisherman lobbing dead slaves into the water, eh?

----------


## panama hat

> At least the UK diplomats can act, swim and retrieve!





> Yes, it's a pleasant change from those chinky fisherman lobbing dead slaves into the water, eh?


And of course walking over the prostate bodies of children.  Oh, speaking of children - OhOh, any more jokes about children being molested by adult males you want to share?

----------


## OhOh

^Why am I not surprised to hear you believe it is a subject of humor.

----------


## sabang

If you cure them a bit, and add nam pla, Westerners just think they are fish.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^Why am I not surprised to hear you believe it is a subject of humor.


No one thinks it's funny except you and your absurd "9 year old man" comments.

----------


## Grumpy John

Those turds in Crapberra need to grow some balls and start limiting imports from China.  Cut 20% a year off the total till the commos act reasonably.  We got along just fine before they arrived and I am sure other Asian countries can supply a lot of the consumer goods.

----------


## panama hat

> ^Why am I not surprised to hear you believe it is a subject of humor.


Nice try at deflecting, that's the second time you've tried - doesn't work, you filthy piece of shit - there were enough comments condemning you, to wit:



> No one thinks it's funny except you and your absurd "9 year old man" comments.


Trying to be funny with pedophilia . . . nice one, OhOh.  
Again, it's easy.  'Oh, not funny.  Right.'  
But no.  You double down and continue, now going to blaming others.  First MissKit, now me . . . fuck you, pedophile-comedian.





> Those turds in Crapberra need to grow some balls and start limiting imports from China. Cut 20% a year off the total till the commos act reasonably. We got along just fine before they arrived and I am sure other Asian countries can supply a lot of the consumer goods.


Quite the wordsmith, very American of you. 

Ok, what imports do you want to limit?  20%?  Per annum even . . . and force China to change because 20% of fuck all is still 20% of . . . well, fuck all. 
Luckily China will just stand idly by and think to themselves what a reasonable action that is and not retaliate.

Two problems with that . . . there are few substitutes for the consumer goods that Australia imports from China - sure, you can buy high end German goods to make up for it, but how many Aussies want to to or can?  Job losses - nice one.
Second - China ramps up its no-Aussie products stance and "Crapberra" (chuckle) is left with its by far largest customer dropping it.  Job losses - nice one.

Yes, in 1920 'we' got along without China but the world changes.  Unfortunately many countries have tied their future to the 800 pound gorilla - with NZ doing so again last week despite seeing what is being done to Australia - and others. 

You're sure other Asian countries can supply consumer goods we/everyone buys from China?  Like who?  The problem is that most western/foreign companies have set up production in China to use their not-so-cheap-anymore-labor and their 1.3 billion population/market.

What would you have "Crapberra" (chuckle) do?  (well, aside from destroy the export sector and drive most businesses into bankruptcy, of course)

----------


## sabang

I'm afraid PH when it comes to the Dismal science, most people just do not have a clue.

----------


## panama hat

> I'm afraid PH when it comes to the Dismal science, most people just do not have a clue.


Uuuh, I haven't hear that term since Uni in Sydney when I was studying  . . . economics  :Sad: 

But yes, you're right.  A simpleton's way of thinking with a simpleton's 'solution'.

----------


## helge

> when it comes to the Dismal science, most people just do not have a clue.


Probably the science, where the most people have a  clue

----------


## sabang

Here's your on-line PhD from Trump Uni then, for knowing how to balance a household budget.  :smiley laughing:

----------


## helge

Thanks

Coming from a region of the world where we make a living from cutting each others hair, I feel that I deserve it.

In conclusion:

Drop dead, Milton 

 :Smile:

----------


## sabang

> Drop dead, Milton


Awful man. He's already dead.

----------


## helge

> Awful man.





> the Dismal science


Oh yes

Pinochet loved him and vice versa



Ph studied in Chicago, didn't he ?

 :Smile:

----------


## sabang

Apparently so, but I don't know what.

----------


## panama hat

> Ph studied in Chicago, didn't he ?


 . . . yes, among other places . . . but my lips are sealed.

----------


## helge

...............

----------


## sabang

Steak eating technology?
Ghetto murder techniques?
How to erase the vile ghost of Milton Friedman?

Not sure what else Chicago is known for, except freezing wind.

----------


## helge

> Ph studied in Chicago, didn't he ?


The Chicago Boys 

Good for PH that he thought Monetarisme to be a school of french impressionistic painting  :Smile: 





> Milton Friedman?

----------


## panama hat

> Heard any football results tonight ?


Ich bin Österreicher . . .  :Sad: 





> How to erase the vile ghost of Milton Friedman?


Milton - Uni of Chicago
PH - Northwestern

Never the twain shall meet. 






> Not sure what else Chicago is known for, except freezing wind.


I must admit to not being fond of the city, but it is quite an important part of the US:

Brilliant architecture
Rail, water and air hubs
Rahm and Obama
Stock Exchange

etc etc etc . . . politically and economically important . . . but not necessarily a brilliant place to live, imho.  (though I lived near the Uni in the northern suburbs)

----------


## sabang

> Stock Exchange


Actually, commodity futures- it is indeed the worlds largest hub. Lets not get started on commodity traders.

----------


## Looper

*Australia warned of 'countermeasures' from China over new defence pact with Japan*

China has used a jingoistic state media outlet to slam an historic defence deal between Australia and Japan, saying it is "inevitable" it will take some sort of countermeasures.


Key points:

    Japan and Australia have agreed to a pact that will intensify their military cooperation
    China has accused both countries of acting "at the behest" of the United States
    The Federal Government says the pact will have no bearing on Australia's relationship with China

The defence pact, called the Reciprocal Access Agreement, was agreed to '"in principle" during Prime Minister Scott Morrison's state visit to Japan, but still has not been formally signed.

The agreement would pave the way for the Australian and Japanese militaries to have access to each other's bases, and would deepen cooperation between the two countries.

China's Government has not formally responded to the agreement, but has used a nationalistic unofficial media outlet to say Japan and Australian were setting "a bad example by interpreting their biggest trading partner, China, as a 'security threat' acting at the behest of the US".

The editorial in the Global Times was published in both Chinese and English for domestic and foreign audiences and framed the two countries as pawns of the United States.

"China is unlikely to remain indifferent to US moves aimed at inciting countries to gang up against China in the long run," it read.

    "It's inevitable that China will take some sort of countermeasures.

"Countries like Japan and Australia have been used as US tools. The strategic risk for a tool to be damaged is certainly higher than that of a user."

Some other state media outlets framed the agreement as an historical contradiction, pointing out that Japan is the only country that has ever bombed Australia.
Scott Morrison bumps elbows with Yoshihide Suga. They are smiling.
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison met with Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga on Tuesday.(ABC News: Yumi Asada)

"You could describe the deal as a paramilitary agreement," said Shi Yinhong, a Professor at Renmin University in Beijing.

"Although it's not a promise to aide the other country if under attack, it is however a deal to place one's own military in the other country for joint exercises.

    "This is a very important step in establishing an Indo-Pacific Alliance against China."

Federal Trade Minister Simon Birmingham insisted the defence pact would not have any bearing on Australia's souring relationship with China, which has resulted in Beijing putting unofficial trade bans or restrictions on around $6 billion of Australia's annual exports.

"This will have no bearing in that regard. Japan and Australia are nations that share common values, share a commitment to democratic principles, and it's little surprise we would want to work cooperatively," he said.
China's latest move straight from its punishment playbook

The Morrison Government seems to be betting that all it needs to do is hold its nerve and hold the line when it comes to China's trade threats, writes Stephen Dziedzic.
Read more

China's Commerce Minister Zhong Shan has, for more than six months, refused to speak to Mr Birmingham about China's series of trade strikes on Australian exports, but previously publicly linked them to Australia launching or joining multiple World Trade Organisation anti-dumping cases against various Chinese exports.

In recent weeks Beijing has made it increasingly clear it expects Australia to make diplomatic overtures to heal the relationship.

A Foreign Ministry spokesman reiterated on Tuesday that China bears "absolutely no responsibility" for the worsening ties.

In an answer to a question asked by China's Government media, spokesman Zhao Lijian identified Australia's public comments on Hong Kong, Xinjiang and Taiwan as problems, along with anti-interference laws being used to "slander" China.

He also listed Australia's blocking of Huawei for the 5G network and various Chinese investments on "national security" grounds as examples of Australia damaging the relationship.

He additionally noted Australia had joined the call for an independent investigation of the coronavirus pandemic, which originated in and spread from Wuhan. 

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-11-18/china-australia-relations-sour--diplomat-releases-list/12897788

----------


## Looper

*Australian officials respond angrily to fresh attacks from Chinese diplomats* 

Australian officials have responded angrily after a Chinese diplomat in Canberra launched a fresh attack on the Federal Government, reeling off a long list of grievances and perceived slights.


Key points:

    A Chinese official laid out several complaints against Australia on Tuesday
    This has further soured the relationship between the two countries
    The complaints have been deemed unreasonable by Australian officials

Late Tuesday, Nine Newspapers reported that an anonymous Chinese official had provided it with a document laying out more than a dozen complaints against Australia.

Many of the allegations have been previously made by Chinese officials in recent months.

The document says Australia has unfairly blocked Chinese investment, spread "disinformation" about China's efforts to contain coronavirus, falsely accused Beijing of cyber-attacks, and engaged in "incessant wanton interference" in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Xinjiang.

It also lambasts the Federal Government's decision to ban Huawei from 5G networks and criticises Australia's push against foreign interference, accusing it of "recklessly" seizing the property of Chinese journalists and allowing Federal MPs to issue "outrageous condemnation of the governing party of China".

The relationship between China and Australia has nose-dived this year.

Beijing has hit several Australian exports with sanctions and has made thinly-veiled warnings that more products will be targeted.

On Tuesday, China also responded angrily to a new defence pact between Australia and Japan.

But Australia is increasingly concerned by incessant cyber-attacks emanating from China, as well as what it believes are persistent attempts by the Chinese Government to interfere in domestic Australian politics. 

The Chinese Embassy's decision to hand the list to the media seems designed to ratchet up the pressure on Australia to make concessions on key issues.

Nine Newspapers reported that the Chinese embassy official said Australia might be able to repair its relationship with China if it changed some of its listed positions.

But the list drew a contemptuous response from some Australian officials. One told the ABC that it was a "very familiar recitation of grievances and false statements."
China's latest move straight from its punishment playbook

The Morrison Government seems to be betting that all it needs to do is hold its nerve and hold the line when it comes to China's trade threats, writes Stephen Dziedzic.
Read more
Decisions made in the national interest

The Federal Government believes the complaints are unreasonable and misrepresent Australia's position.

It also believes that the list shows Australia has done nothing to deliberately inflame ties with Beijing but has simply stood by its principles and sovereignty.

The Government maintains there are sound national security reasons for blocking Huawei and stopping some investments from the mainland.

It believes Australia's push for an independent inquiry into the COVID-19 outbreak was justified, and it has every right to publicly state its concerns about human rights abuses in China.

The head of the National Security College, Rory Medcalf, said on Twitter that the latest tactic deployed by the Chinese Government was "unfortunate" and ineffective. 

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-11-18/china-australia-relations-sour--diplomat-releases-list/12897788

----------


## harrybarracuda

Whiny chinky c u n t s. It's high time the world ganged up on them and gave them a fucking good slap.

----------


## panama hat

> perceived slights.


Fuck 'em . . .

----------


## sabang

^^ Head to yer local Chinatown, and give it a go noble warrior.

----------


## sabang

_“who wishes to fight must first count the cost”_
― *Sun Tzu,* The Art of War


*'Why keep silent?': China to target Australia's human rights record*



China's foreign ministry plans to target Australia's human rights record on Indigenous affairs and aged care as it ramps up its dispute with the Morrison government.
© Thomson Reuters

The escalation follows a sharp rejection of China's threats by Prime Minister Scott Morrison who on Thursday said Australia would not compromise on national security or freedom of speech after the Chinese embassy released a list of 14 grievances with Australia that threaten up to $20 billion in trade.

Mr Morrison said Australia would never compromise its national interests or hand over its laws to any other country.

"We make our laws and our rules and pursue our relationships in our interests and we stand up with other countries, whether it be on human rights issues or things that are occurring around the world, including in China," he said.

The embassy's list blamed the deteriorating relationship between the two countries on the Morrison government's decision to ban Huawei, fund "anti-China" research at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, block 10 Chinese foreign investment deals, and lead the call for an independent investigation into the origins of COVID-19, among other disputes.

China accounts for up to 40 per cent of Australia's exports and one in 13 Australian jobs.

After handing over the list to _Nine News, The Sydney Morning Herald_ and _The Age_ on Tuesday and warning China was "angry", a Chinese embassy official said China would use "international bodies to talk up about Indigenous Australians and treatment in aged care".
"Why keep silent?," the official said.

China has detained up to 1 million Uighur Muslims in re-education camps. It has been condemned by dozens of countries for its human rights record in Xinjiang and its crackdown in Hong Kong. Human Rights Watch has accused China of systemic human rights abuse and labelled it "an exporter of human rights violations".

Australia has faced criticism for its record on Indigenous human rights. The Australian government's Closing the Gap report found Indigenous Australians face shorter life expectancy, higher rates of infant mortality, poorer health outcomes and lower levels of education and employment.

Indigenous people represent 2 per cent of the total population but 27 per cent of the nation's total full-time adult prisoner population.

The Aged Care Royal Commission found Australia's aged care system failed to meet the needs of its older citizens after reports of abuse and neglect across the system.

"The Royal Commission into aged care quality and safety has provided evidence of human rights abuses within residential aged care in Australia," Sarah Russell, the director of advocacy group Aged Care Matters, said.

A Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman said as a liberal democracy, Australia is open and transparent and expects our human rights record to be scrutinised accordingly.

"Australia raises its human rights concerns about other countries respectfully and constructively," he said.

"The Australian Government has serious concerns about a range of human rights issues in China. We have consistently raised our concerns, including at ministerial level, both directly with China and in multilateral forums, and will continue to do so."

The Chinese embassy official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they are not authorised to speak publicly, also said China may withdraw Confucius Institutes from Australian universities if proposed laws pass this year which would give the federal government power to tear up international agreements.

'Why keep silent?': China to target Australia's human rights record

----------


## panama hat

So, go for it . . . and withdrawing Confucious Institutes would be a good thing, fewer propagandists and Mainland thugs targeting Hongkies and others who criticise China

----------


## sabang

As a kiwi (of first affiliation), I am sure you would not mind if our living standards come to more closely resemble yours. But I do care about the Australian national self interest.

----------


## panama hat

I'm not a Kiwi in any affiliation. 

One thing I don't want, under any affiliation, is to be dependent on a totalitarian state. I've seen first hand what a socialist (a real one) state is like. 
I've worked in China as well ..  
Nope.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *'Why keep silent?': China to target Australia's human rights record*


That is the funniest shit they have come out with all year.

 :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:

----------


## sabang

Well, don't really wanna shoot my own country in the foot. So maybe do not compare the average life expectancy of Australian abos, to Chinese Uyghurs. And that small Afghan brouhaha is really quite current in the News cycle. Yeh, if they wanna get the knives out they can rub it in. Sounds like they are in the mood.

----------


## Hugh Cow

Some rhetoric from the Australian government (or for that matter any western govt) is a few years too late. They knew what the Chinese were like for the past 60 years. Certainly Tiananmen square should have been a wake up call, but they still chose to sell everything including the kitchen sink to them and become economically dependent on a very unsavoury totalitarian govt. Blind Freddy could've predicted they would turn the screws once they had enough power. Isolating and emasculating the USA is their ultimate goal. In this they knew they would have an ally in Russia. The "enemy of my enemy" The EU was never and wont be a threat. They are too weak and will avoid confrontation at all costs.
Complaining about China not playing by the rules is a bit like seeing your latest love go into the men's toilets and then being surprised when you're in bed that your darling is a lady boy.

----------


## tomcat

> Complaining about China not playing by the rules is a bit like seeing your latest love go into the men's toilets and then being surprised when you're in bed that your darling is a lady boy.


...so, you think China is like a ladyboy giving himself away by using the men's toilet and Australia, blinded by love, only discovered the ruse when impaled by the Chinese dick? Sounds...operatic...

----------


## Hugh Cow

Panama Hat....

Ok, what imports do you want to limit?  20%?  Per annum even . . . and force China to change because 20% of fuck all is still 20% of . . . well, fuck all. 
Luckily China will just stand idly by and think to themselves what a reasonable action that is and not retaliate.

To illustrate the point. Last time i was in China I asked one of China's largest airconditioning manufacturers about how they viewed the size of the Australian airconditioning market in world terms. He explained it to me this way... " If we manufactured every airconditioner brand that was sold in Australia in one whole year it would occupy our manufacturing plant for 6 hours". As I have tried to explain to a couple of cretins on another thread. When you buy shitloads more than you sell, you have the whip hand.

----------


## Grumpy John

So you have a better strategy?   Doing nothing is not an option.  You have to stand up to a bully or submit...do you think the Australian people want to submit to a bunch of kunts in Beijing???  There are products from South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand and Japan to fill the gap and there are more expensive products from Europe so don't paint a picture of doom and gloom.

----------


## sabang

Imagine for a moment the view from Beijing. It looks something like this.

The Chinese Communist Party has overseen an economic miracle. In three decades it has taken a country that once could not feed itself and turned it into an economic powerhouse.
More than half a billion people have been lifted out of the poverty. The world has never seen anything like it.


And the Party says China has been good for the world.
It is now the biggest engine of global economic growth. By the end of the decade it most likely will eclipse the United States as the world's largest economy.
China's rise has been peaceful. It has joined in a global rules based order: a member of the World Trade Organisation, the World Health Organisation, a permanent five member of the United Nation's Security Council.
It is a signatory to global compacts like the Paris Climate Accords and engages in peacekeeping and humanitarian operations.
China is by any measure a global power. It now rivals the United States. The Communist Party asks, why should it be lectured to by the likes of Australia, a country whose prosperity is tied to China?
It is Australia's biggest trading partner. China's economic might, hungry for our resources, underwrote Australia's 30 years of uninterrupted economic growth.



*Why wouldn't Beijing be annoyed?*

When Australia calls for an inquiry into the origins of coronavirus without first liaising with China, why wouldn't Beijing be annoyed? Of course it would retaliate. Australia's exporters were always going to be in the firing line.
When Australia announces it has signed a new military pact with Japan, Beijing is insulted. We should have expected that.
Beijing wonders: are we utterly ignorant of the deep enmity between China and Japan? The Japanese invasion and occupation of China during the 1930s and '40s is a scar on the soul of Chinese people. Millions were killed. China still demands a full apology from Japan.


Chinese schoolchildren are raised on the history of humiliation: how China was exploited by foreign powers from the mid-18th century. They are told it was the Communist Party that restored the nation's honour when Mao Zedong declared the Communist revolution.
Xi Jinping — the most powerful Chinese leader since Mao — vows to complete the great rejuvenation of China, to restore it to the apex of global power.
The Chinese have a saying: "If you wish to know the mind of a man, listen to his words."


In 2013, not long after taking power, Xi warned the Party leadership that "hostile forces at home and abroad constantly try to undermine our Party".
He said that without socialism, there would be chaos, and generations of communists had been willing to sacrifice and even shed blood for the country.
China, he told the Party, should prepare for long periods of conflict.
Right now, Australia is in Xi's crosshairs. When the Federal Government criticises China's detention of Uighur Muslims or the crackdown on pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong, it hears the echo of the "hundred years of national humiliation".

*There is no 'next' China*

It was one year this week since the likely outbreak of Coronavirus in the city of Wuhan. Xi Jinping now claims victory over the virus in what he calls a "people's war".
China's economy is recovering with some forecasts of nine per cent growth in 2021.
Global management company McKinsey says clients often ask "where is the next China?" There is no next China. It says: "China's economy is unique and is set to retain its pre-eminent role as the engine of global consumption growth post-pandemic".
And Australia is looking again to ride Beijing's coat tails. In this year's Federal Budget, Treasurer Josh Frydenberg based some of his growth projections on China's rapid post-COVID recovery.
The Chinese Communist Party looks at America — ravaged by the virus and deeply politically divided — and claims China's model of authoritarian capitalism is superior.
The view from Beijing is that China is a big power and demands respect.


Australia is in China's sphere of influence and it is always going to feel the heat, perhaps more than other countries. We are the canary in the coal mine. Other nations are looking to us to see how we navigate these dangerous diplomatic straits.
The view from Beijing is that we are a white Western country, clinging to a world of Western dominance that China does not believe in.
China's foreign ministry spokesman, Zhao Lijian, says Australia created the problems with China and "those who have caused problems should be the ones to solve problems".
This is the world we live in. China sees itself as the "Middle Kingdom" — the centre of the world — and it expects other nations to pay tribute.

*This is not just about diplomacy*

Beijing sees this moment as deeply ideological and historical. It is not simply about diplomacy and the stakes are only going to get higher. Surely no one still believes the old shibboleth that we don't have to choose between our American alliance and our China trade dependence?
Beijing has shown it will make those choices for us.
Scott Morrison is right to say that Australia will "act in our interests and in accordance with our values".
But we will pay a price. Morrison says China is singling us out for "Australia being Australia".
Beijing replies: Precisely.

Australia's trade clash with China is a lesson in what Beijing's power really means - ABC News


The author of this article, Stan Grant, is one of the ABC's top reporters, and is Professor at an Australian university. He is a proud indigenous Australian. I think you can say, he loves this country.

Time for a wake up call Australia. Or do you really not care about your children?  ::chitown::

----------


## Hugh Cow

From Sabangs piece

The view from Beijing is that we are a white Western country, clinging to a world of Western dominance that China does not believe in.
China's foreign ministry spokesman, Zhao Lijian, says Australia created the problems with China and "those who have caused problems should be the ones to solve problems".
This is the world we live in. China sees itself as the "Middle Kingdom" — the centre of the world — and it expects other nations to pay tribute.

We have 2 choices we either submit or we dont. We should probably at least tone down the rhetoric. The Japan defence plan is a bad idea at least until the Japanese take more responsibility about their appalling record in WW2 especially in regard to China. 
IMHO we should realise we are alone in this. The EU will not help and the U.S. is unlikely to do much. Both will be governed by how it effects their trade and little else apart from a few moral platitudes. Greed is a great motivator that countries including Australia have not let their morals get in the way of. We are now reaping what successive govts and industries have sown. As Neville Chamberlain found, appeasement never works,it only emboldens.

----------


## panama hat

> We should probably at least tone down the rhetoric.


There is no massive rhetoric, though, as even the slightest mention will elicit the same response from a totalitarian dictatorship that brooks no dissent - internal nor external, the former it has controlled for decades and the latter it now has the economic power to do so.




> the Japanese take more responsibility about their appalling record in WW2 especially in regard to China.


This is a misconception, just like the constant Korean whining about Japan not apologising the 'right' way or sing the 'correct' words or not being 'sincere'.

Japan has apologised many, many times for many, many things - China and Korea use Japan as a perfect scapegoat to inflame crass nationalism and jingoism when internal problems arise.

China and Korea aggressively provoke Japan with these ridiculous claims of not being contrite and not apologising - fuck 'em. 


Biggest difference between German and Japan after the war?  Germany's neighbours accepted German apologies and got on with building their lives.  Japan's neighbours have no inclination nor do they see any benefit in letting Japan off the hook.

----------


## Klondyke

> Japan has apologised many, many times for many, many things - China and Korea use Japan as a perfect scapegoat to inflame crass nationalism and jingoism when internal problems arise.
> 
> China and Korea aggressively provoke Japan with these ridiculous claims of not being contrite and not apologising - fuck 'em. 
> 
> Biggest difference between German and Japan after the war? Germany's neighbours accepted German apologies and got on with building their lives. Japan's neighbours have no inclination nor do they see any benefit in letting Japan off the hook.


The Germans and Japanese, they had not done much wrong to the world as the Chinese and Koreans, had they? 

And they apologized so many times to their neighbours, didn't they? So, what...

----------


## sabang

China has known from the beginning, that we are a close ally of the US. It has known from the beginning that we house three of the most sensitive, and essential, bases in the US global security (spy) network. They have given us absolutely no problems about that. They are also our largest source of tourists, and foreign students. They used to perceive us as a friendly country you see, and aussies as friendly people. Oh boy, did we benefit.

But now, under the insane trump administration and it's ugly bullyboy, pompousarse-  we are the Dep'ty Sheriff? Real smart. Explain that to your children.

----------


## panama hat

> The Germans and Japanese, they had not done much wrong to the world as the Chinese and Koreans, had they?


Wtf are you going in about again tovarish fuckwit?  Are you really so incredibly fucked in the head that you can't follow a thread or discussion?

That was a rhetorical question - you are a fuckwit

----------


## tomcat

> They used to perceive us as a friendly country you see, and aussies as friendly people. Oh boy, did we benefit.
> 
> But now, under the insane trump administration and it's ugly bullyboy, pompousarse


...so, pushed around by the Chinese and the US...and the Queen is still Head of State? Poor Australia just doesn't have a will of its own...apparently...

----------


## OhOh

> To illustrate the point.


Excellent series of posts. Thank you.




> do you think the Australian people want to submit to a bunch of kunts in Beijing


They appear to have no qualms submitting to London or Washington. They do of course reap benefits for kneeling to their current masters literally or nowadays via secure video links:



Prime areas of itself physically, financially and morally.

----------


## OhOh

> criticising the west or anything and everything


They certainly have a whole bus load of, I'll politely suggest, errors that need fixing.

Looks like a few facts were unpalatable to you, once again. 

Any positive news, military, financial or moral from your, in this case OZ, but I'll widen the question to all your western saviors if you like, to share with us?

Aww what a shame. Nothing to brag about it seems.

Maybe firing some more ***'sin my direction will get you up. Pathetic.

----------


## sabang

How Heroic. Tying oneself to the mast of a sinking ship. Future generations will surely praise your noble sacrifice.

----------


## panama hat

> Looks like a few facts


You wouldn't know what facts are if they spat on you, care t make more pedophile jokes, fuckwit?







> How Heroic. Tying oneself to the mast of a sinking ship. Future generations will surely praise your noble sacrifice.


Massively more than what you do, I'd guess.

----------


## sabang

> and listens to Celine Dion too.


How could you say that about a fellow human being?  ::chitown::

----------


## Hugh Cow

> ...so, pushed around by the Chinese and the US...and the Queen is still Head of State? Poor Australia just doesn't have a will of its own...apparently...


The Queen is infinitely preferable to the US system of electoral colleges to Elect a fuckwit as head of state. Unlike your system, the Queen has a fag and a cup of tea and leaves us to it and doesn't fuck everything up like your Don and costs us relatively fuck all to boot. I'd take HRM over that any day. Certainly better than countries that need to compensate by naming their children Baron or Lord or Elmo Zumwalt the 3rd ffs. 
Be honest half of you septics would fall over yourself to get a knighthood from the Queen rather than a medal from the red retard. 
Let's face it, Tomcat PMOF or Sir Thomas Cat K.C.M.G.... No comparison.... The former, who? The latter, you'd be getting more sausage than a smallgoods factory.

----------


## Backspin

At least 50 giant bulk carriers loaded with Australian coal, worth  $500 million, are anchored off several Chinese ports, as the latest  diplomatic spat between Canberra and Beijing intensifies. 
Bloomberg,  citing shipping data from Kpler, said 66 vessels are loaded with  Australian coal had been moored off China's coast for more than a month.  The ships collectively have 5.7 million tons of coal and about 1,000  seafarers onboard. Vessel sizes range from Capesize to Panamax. 
  The ban on Australian coal is occurring as both countries are locked  in a one-sided trade war, with Beijing slapping tariffs and blacklisting commodities from the country this year

----------


## panama hat

> countries are locked in a one-sided trade war,


 . . . interesting turn of phrase.


So, you don't like Trump's economic bullying . . . I'm guessing you'll condemn China as well now, ignoring signed agreements

----------


## sabang

Could you two get a room please?


Interesting article, by one of Australia's few muckraking journos. ASPI is a hawkish, right wing thinktank- and ASPI articles have been quoted in a lot of the recent China schtick (which has cost Australia billions, and counting). Interesting then to see where it's funding comes from, and how much it has gone up in the last year:-


*Revealed: radical escalation in US war machine funding for Australian Government “think tank” ASPI*

by Marcus Reubenstein | Nov 24, 2020 | Government

Scott Morrison says Australia’s position has been wrongly interpreted as siding with the US over China. Yet two of the main funders of the Federal Government-owned think-tank ASPI, a constant critic of China, are the US State Department, whose secretary Mike Pompeo has led the charge of global anti-China sentiment, and foreign weapons makers. Marcus Reubenstein investigates.


The Australia-China relationship has hit new lows, with China’s ban on a range of imports threatening $20 billion of Australian exports. However, just in the past few days Prime Minister Scott Morrison has said Australia’s position has been wrongly interpreted as siding with the United States over China, and that his government would not make a “binary choice” between the superpowers.

Which makes the funding of the Federal Government-owned think-tank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, a constant critic of China, even more curious. Two of its biggest sources of funding are the US State Department, whose secretary Mike Pompeo has led the charge of global anti-China sentiment, and foreign weapons makers.

ASPI’s annual report, which has just been tabled in Parliament, shows that funding from the US government skyrocketed by 367% over the past financial year alone – to $1,369,773.22.

Moreover, the limited disclosure buried on page 157 of the report suggests all the funds were in some way directed to research projects attacking China. The US payments primarily came through the State Department.

*The mother country also tips in*

Other foreign governments made significant contributions, with the bulk of their funding contributing to ASPI programs that were either directly or indirectly linked to reports critical of China. The UK was ASPI’s second biggest foreign benefactor, contributing a total of $455,260. The governments of Japan, Israel, and Netherlands and NATO poured in another $66,072.

In the 2019-20 financial year, foreign (non-US) government contributions to ASPI were up more than 30 times on the previous year.

*Weapons makers front and centre*

ASPI’s loyal supporters in the military industrial complex once again stepped up. Lockheed Martin, a continuous sponsor since 2004, provided $25,000, while its US counterpart Northrop Grumman paid $67,500.
The French did their part sending over $63,300 from Thales and Naval Group.

Department of Defence captured by foreign weapons makers Thales, BAE

Thales was awarded the contract to supply the Australian Army with Hawkei off-road light military vehicles in circumstances seriously questioned by the Australian National Audit Office. Completely ignoring that controversy, in September ASPI produced a report praising the Hawkei’s capabilities.

Former Defence Minister Dr Brendan Nelson, a paid advisor to the Thales Group from 2015 until December 2019, was appointed to the ASPI Council earlier this year.
Majority French-government owned Naval Group won the contract for Australia’s controversial $80 billion future submarine project.

Murder, corruption, bombings – the company at centre of Australia’s submarine deal

In February 2016, ASPI’s executive director Peter Jennings wrote a glowing opinion piece on the Naval Group submarines under the headline “_Vive Australia’s choice of a French submarine”.
_
Two months earlier the French government bestowed France’s highest national decoration, the National Order of Légion d’Honneur, on Jennings.

*Full Article-  Revealed: radical escalation in US war machine funding for Australian Government "think tank" ASPI - Michael West*

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Could you two get a room please?
> 
> 
> Interesting article, by one of Australia's few muckraking journos.


You're partially right on the muck, although it seems this particular hack's _modus operandus_ is throwing shit at walls in the hope that some of it will stick.

So why do you think anyone will take it seriously?

2020: Michael West Media article misleading - University of Wollongong  UOW

----------


## sabang

In this case, all he has done is check ASPI's funding sources as published in their Annual report- which was released late, deliberately or not. 
So sure, it will be taken seriously because it is verifiable. What the implications are however, is more a matter for debate.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> In this case, all he has done is check ASPI's funding sources as published in their Annual report- which was released late, deliberately or not. 
> So sure, it will be taken seriously because it is verifiable. What the implications are however, is more a matter for debate.


Yeah, I get the gist of it. Because it criticises the chinkies, it must be bad.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Backspin

*Shots Fired: China Slaps "Distressing" Tariffs Up To 212% On Australian Wine*


  
                                               by        Tyler Durden 
                              Fri, 11/27/2020 - 20:30






                         China  has drastically ramped up its trade conflict with Australia, on Friday  slapping a whopping 200% tax on all Australian wine, in a move being  widely described as the first shot fired in what went from  behind-the-scenes bureaucratic punitive actions to now an open trade war.


  "The Ministry of Commerce imposed import taxes of up to *212.1%, effective Saturday*, which Australia’s trade minister said *make Australian wine unsellable in China, his country’s biggest export market*," the AP reports. The lead industry body Wine Australia, said the country's total shipments to China in the first nine months of 2020 *accounted for 39% of all Australian wines*.


  Australia has been among those countries, foremost among them the  United States under Trump, leading the charge of criticism aimed at  Beijing over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic, lately calling  for a formal international probe into the deadly virus' origins there. 
_China is the top market for Australian wine exports, via Reuters._ *"This is a very distressing time for many hundreds of  Australian wine producers, who have built, in good faith, a sound market  in China,"* Australia trade minister Simon Birmingham responded on Friday.
  The growing tensions between the two trade partners has also included  tit-for-tat travel restrictions and in a couple notable cases the  detention of journalists with dual nationality by Chinese security  services. This amid China taking measures early this month to block a  wide array of key Australian exports from lobsters to coal.
  But as one analyst cited by AP has observed of what's increasingly obvious, Australia has become a *"one-trick pony export-wise to China" and thus Beijing holds all the cards*,  with Canberra scrambling to play on the defensive while China extracts  political concessions by threatening to torpedo Australia's commodities  exports.
  China's Ministry of Commerce justified the wine tariffs as a  necessary response after rampant complaints that Chinese producers were  hurt by *improperly low-priced Australian imports*.

 Of all the Australian wines hit w/  huge Chinese tariffs today, one - Auswan - was singled out for the  softest tariff of 107%. Much lower than all the others. It just happens  to be the label of former ambassador Geoff Raby, a consistent critic of  Aus gov’t’s handling of China ties pic.twitter.com/nAJNV0ZZ9w
 — Bill Birtles (@billbirtles) November 27, 2020

Prime  Minister Scott Morrison has lately slammed Beijing practicing blatant  "economic coercion" with regard to an increasing array of its exports  being held up at port for what are seen as contrived inspections  procedures, which sometimes end in large shipments going bad, such as  lobster. 
  Beijing has also recently began taking aim at Australia's tourism  industry by discouraging tourists and students from visiting the  country.
_Via Trading Economics: Australia exports to China was US$103 Billion during 2019, according to the United Nations COMTRADE database on international trade._ 

  On news of this latest 200% wine tax Australia's main stock market  index fell by 0.5%. China's foreign ministry was quick to capitalize by  demanding Australia "do something conductive" to change course and  improve relations but without diving into details:


"Some people in Australia adhering to the *Cold War mentality and ideological prejudice* have repeatedly taken wrong words and deeds on issues concerning China’s core interests," said the spokesman, Zhao Lijian.
   Australia should *"take China’s concerns seriously, instead of  harming China’s national interests under the banner of safeguarding  their own national interests,"* Zhao said.
Further fueling China's dramatic actions is Australia's impending  mutual defense treaty with Japan which is still being deeply negotiated.
  Japan is of course a prime strategic rival to China heavily involved  in pressing anti-China rhetoric on its expansion of militarized  artificial islands in the South China Sea.

----------


## Backspin

^ 



> Some people in Australia adhering to the *Cold War mentality and ideological prejudice* have repeatedly taken wrong words and deeds on issues concerning Chinas core interests," said the spokesman, Zhao Lijian.
> 
>    Australia should *"take Chinas  concerns seriously, instead of  harming Chinas national interests under  the banner of safeguarding  their own national interests,"* Zhao said


How can people charge China with coercive trade practices when Australia is being openly ideological and prejudiced to it ? China can trade with who it wants. The 200% tariff is just the cost of this policy.

----------


## aging one

Do you think you could learn to use the quote function? Do you know what a quote is?  Adding to your list of idiocy.

----------


## Latindancer

> ^ 
> 
>   China can trade with who it wants.


However, innocent people and businesses suffer.


*"This is a very distressing time for many hundreds of   Australian wine producers, who have built, in good faith, a sound market   in China,"* Australia trade minister Simon Birmingham responded on Friday.

----------


## panama hat

> How can people charge China with coercive trade practices when Australia is being openly ideological and prejudiced to it





> China can trade with who it wants.





> The 200% tariff is just the cost of this policy



We all know how dense you are . . . ever heard of contracts?  Agreements?

That's a rhetorical question.

----------


## Hugh Cow

How could any country feel confident about future contracts and agreements with China when they lie and cheat their way out as soon as they have a disagreement. This (hopefully) will come back and bite China in the long run.

----------


## OhOh

> We all know how dense you are . . . ever heard of contracts? Agreements?





> How could any country feel confident about future contracts and agreements with China when they lie and cheat their way out as soon as they have a disagreement. This (hopefully) will come back and bite China in the long run.


Grants, Agreements?

Care to post a sample or two of the ones being broken by China?

This may of course have some bearing on the taxpayer's *subsidies* Australian wine growers are able to access from the Australian 

 agency.


*Current Grant Opportunity View - GO4221* 

*
Wine Export Grant*

_"Description:__Wine Australia is  inviting small and medium Australian wine businesses to apply for the  Wine Export Grants program, as part of the Australian Government’s $50  million Export and Regional Wine Support Package (the $50m Package).
_
_Wine Export Grants are offered for specific wine export promotion  activities aimed at supporting small and medium wine businesses to  secure new distribution channels in export markets._
_Eligible wine businesses can claim a reimbursement grant of up to  AU$25,000 for 50 per cent of total eligible expenses incurred on or  after 1 July 2020. There is $1 million allocated to the grant program  and applications will close on 1 May 2021, or on the expiration of  funds, whichever comes first.
_
_If you are a wine producer in Australia, you may apply for a Wine Export Grant if you:_

_had an aggregated turnover of less than AU$20 million, including an  export turnover of less than AU$5 million, during the financial year  immediately preceding your application, and__promote your Australian wine product for export; this includes the  export promotion activities being applied for through this grant._ 
_Once a wine producer has received advice that their application was  successful, no further applications for this grant will be accepted from  that producer or any associated producers._

_                 Eligibility:                _ _If you are a wine producer in Australia, you may apply for a Wine Export Grant if you:_

_had an aggregated turnover of less than AU$20 million, including an  export turnover of less than AU$5 million, during the financial year  immediately preceding your application, and__promote your Australian wine product for export; this includes the  export promotion activities being applied for through this grant._ 
_Once a wine producer has received advice that their application was  successful, no further applications for this grant will be accepted from  that producer or any associated producers._

_                     Total Amount Available (AUD):                    _ _                          $1,000,000.00                    _ 

_                     Estimated Grant Value (AUD):                    _ _From  $1.00                        to  $25,000.00"_

Current Grant Opportunity View - GO4221: GrantConnect


As are the well documented "sanctions", the SOP of western governments and their vassals.

----------


## panama hat

> Care to post a sample or two of the ones being broken by China?


Seeing as you're as thick as Skidmark, I'll explain it again - China's actions breach WTO guidelines. 

Is that easy enough for you to understand?

----------


## OhOh

> China's actions breach WTO guidelines





> Care to post a sample or two of the ones being broken by China?


With, in this instance, WTO links. So we may educate ourselves with the facts, rather than your allegations.

Has the Australian government requested the WTO to arbitrate on your alleged breaches?

As of 16 November 2020 there are no mentions of WTO involvement in the Australian media. Threats but no official request. I've not checked all of the media reports.

*Fears China has cut off imports of Australian wine amid worsening trade war*

https://www.xxx.xxx.xx/news/2020-11-...spute/12887568

*China doubles down on Australian wine dispute*


September 1st, 2020 
_
"Minister Birmingham added that the Australian Government is working hard  to have government-to-government discussions with the Chinese  Government."

China doubles down on Australian wine dispute - Winetitles_

*'We'll vigorously defend': Australia ready to fight China over wine dispute*

*By Jennifer Duke*

 August 23, 2020 — 12.10pm

_"The federal government is prepared to fight Beijing at the World  Trade Organisation after the Chinese Ministry of Commerce launched an  anti-dumping investigation into Australian wine.
_
_Minister for Agriculture David Littleproud said on ABC Insiders on Sunday morning the government was willing to challenge any allegations local winemakers dumped bottles under two litres into China at reduced prices.

"We'll vigorously defend that and if required, we'll go through the process and go to the WTO. We have form for that," he said."

'''We'''ll vigorously defend''': Australia ready to fight China over wine dispute


_

----------


## harrybarracuda

Top reading tip for our Australian members:

----------


## panama hat

^ Not so silent . . . even here in NZ they threaten Uni profs, politicians, journos . . . utter scum of the earth, and we have one right here

----------


## tomcat

...so, what is the lesson to be learned here by Australia's neighbors? Don't let an expansionist, domineering and highly sensitive trading partner achieve a dominant position in one's economy...are they paying attention? If so, I hope they understand this huffery is more than a trade dispute...China has used such tactics to bring Korea and Japan into line...the Europeans, one by one, will moderate their criticism and bow to China's market strength rather than endanger exports. Is China the only player drawing red lines here?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ...China has used such tactics to bring Korea and Japan into line...



How's that then?

----------


## tomcat

> How's that then?


...to punish Korean company Lotte 
(China ends sanctions on Lotte two years after South Korean retailer cedes land to US missile defences | South China Morning Post) 

...and rare earth mineral exports to Japan... Amid Tension, China Blocks Vital Exports to Japan - The New York Times

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ...to punish Korean company Lotte 
> (China ends sanctions on Lotte two years after South Korean retailer cedes land to US missile defences | South China Morning Post) 
> 
> ...and rare earth mineral exports to Japan... Amid Tension, China Blocks Vital Exports to Japan - The New York Times


And how has that "brought them into line"?

As far as I can see, Lotte considered pulling out of China and....




> China lifted its economic sanctions on South Korean retailer Lotte last month, more than two years after the company angered Beijing by yielding land for the deployment of a US anti-missile defence system in South Korea.


And as for Japan:




> TOKYO -- The Japanese government will cooperate with the U.S. and Australia on investing in processing facilities for rare-earth metals, looking to ease reliance on imports from China.


Japan to pour investment into non-China rare-earth projects -
                        Nikkei Asia


So please explain how this has "brought them into line"....

----------


## OhOh

> Is China the only player drawing red lines here?


SOP for centuries. Big guns, mandated reserve currency, IMF, trade, kidnapping citizens of foreign countries illegally, banning countries companies from selling goods ......

The seats around the tables are being reshuffled, a new Uncle is on the block who has arrived to play a new game of cards. Aided and abetted for commercial gain for decades by political decisions made by shortsighted western governments.




> cedes land to US missile defences | South China Morning Post)


National security, shades of Cuban crisis, but without military threats of war.




> Amid Tension, China Blocks Vital Exports to Japan - The New York Times


From your link_.

"Sharply raising the stakes in a dispute over Japan’s detention of a  Chinese fishing trawler captain, the Chinese government has blocked  exports to Japan of a crucial category of minerals used in products like  hybrid cars, wind turbines and guided missiles.

_Acts of piracy are against international law._

"will only emphasize the need for geographic diversity of supply,”

_Failure to diversify ones suppliers of critical imports does leave one exposed.Easy enough but possibly more expensive/polluting solutions have always been available.As 'arry has posted.

----------


## OhOh

Great piece of media for the misinformed masses, 'arry will quote the headlines as facts and pHart will back him up:

The media outlet's video of the "interview" here:
*Birmingham says Australia prepared to take China to WTO over tariffs*

Birmingham says Australia prepared to take China to WTO over tariffs - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The media  outlet's text here:
*Australia prepares to escalate action against China to World Trade Organization over barley tariffs*

https://www.xxx.xxx.xx/news/2020-11-...riffs/12932240

The "here today, gone tomorrow" politician, being interviewed is desperately trying not to say anything that can't be "misinterpreted", or considered by others as "escalation". He does use the tried and tested proviso, "in the Australian National Interests", while the interviewer keeps pressing for answers to his inflammatory questions.

Australian fabrication at it's best or politicians being "economic with the truth". Australians do have previous.

I wonder when the Australian politician will consider that China is possibly acting in it's own "National Interests" and what his excuse will be then.

Hilarious.

Apologies if the links don't work, it appears that Australia is selective as to who can read/watch their premiere news outlet, but your search engine will find the headline text.

----------


## Looper

> The "here today, gone tomorrow" politician, being interviewed


...as in democratically elected?


*China puts tariffs of up to 200 per cent on Australian wine
*
The Chinese Government has announced it will place tariffs on all Australian wine imports from Saturday, striking a blow to the $1.2 billion-a-year industry.
Key points:

    The new tariffs will range from 107 to 200 per cent
    They come after China's Commerce Ministry instructed importers to suspend orders of Australian wine
    The action follows months of trade uncertainty and souring relations between Australia and China




It follows the preliminary findings of a Chinese anti-dumping investigation into Australia's wine exports that found that dumping exists and causes Chinese winemakers "substantial harm".

China has accused Australian producers of selling wine for below the cost of production.

The investigation is not due to finish until next year, but China's Commerce Ministry announced that from November 28, importers of Australian wine entering China will need to pay temporary "anti-dumping security deposits".

The deposits, which effectively work like tariffs, will range from between 107 per cent to more than 200 per cent.

The move comes after China's Commerce Ministry gave informal instructions to importers to suspend orders of wine and six other types of Australian exports earlier this month.
Have we hit peak China?
A windmill in the outback in front of clouds lit up red and orange by a sunset.

As trade and political tensions simmer, speculation swirls about what's really going on between the two nations  and what's next on a Chinese sanctions "hit list".
Read more

Shares in Treasury Wine Estates, one of Australia's largest exporters, plunged 11 per cent on Friday morning as the news was being confirmed.

The company initially paused trading and then confirmed it will be in a halt until Tuesday.

Tony Battaglene from Australian Grape and Wine said the tariffs would make it incredibly difficult for Australian wine exporters.

"The China market is a big market for us, but also some of our major competitors, particularly from Europe, are [now] given a tariff advantage of 100-200 per cent [which] is going to make it very difficult to compete  it won't be good," he said.

Trade Minister Simon Birmingham said the tariffs delivered a "devastating blow" to the wine industry.

"It will render unviable for many businesses their wine trade with China and clearly we think it's unjustified, without evidence to back it up," he said.

"It's a tax on Chinese consumers, essentially, but by taxing the product at such enormous, impactful levels, it will likely see consumers turn away from that, and that is what has the devastating impact on Australian producers.

    "That's why we think it is grossly, grossly unfair, unwarranted, unjustified."

Two glasses of red wine.
Wine has joined other Australian export products in attracting Chinese tariffs.(Pixabay)
'Very little product is going in'

Mr Battaglene said there were hundreds of shipping containers of Australian wine building up at ports across China since an unofficial ban on imports came into effect earlier this month.

It is understood the wine delayed at customs will now be subject to the tariffs.

"Very little product is going in," he said.

"We had a reduction in export approvals of 80 to 90 per cent.

"What has gone in is sitting basically in customs, trying to go through increased testing and compliance procedures."

He said the industry was unaware of any wine that had cleared China's customs since the ban, and subsequently large numbers of wine exporters had withheld from shipping wine from Australia.

    "I can't remember a year like this. This is the biggest single challenge we have ever faced in such an important market for us," Mr Battaglene said.

"We need to be able get through this and work with both the Australian and Chinese Government to resolve this."

Agriculture Minister David Littleproud said the Australian Government was in contact with Chinese authorities.

"We're trying to get an appreciation of the reasoning behind the determination in introducing these tariffs," he said.

"That's why we're moving quickly to work with the industry and my officials and DFAT officials in Beijing to get an understanding so we can put our case around this decision  that we feel is quite outrageous and, to be honest, disproportionate to any reason that anyone has put to us subsequently."

Shadow Trade Minister Madeleine King said she was "deeply concerned" about the tariffs.

"Labor understands the relationship with China is increasingly complex," she said.

"It is a relationship that must be managed in the national interest and not for partisan political interests."

The announcement of a wine tariff comes amid souring trading relations that have seen China impose import tariffs on Australian barley.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-11-27/china-puts-tariffs-on-australian-wine-trade-tensions/12886700

----------


## harrybarracuda

Whenever they do this, the World should slap double the tariff on one of their products to dampen sales.

They'll get the message soon enough.

----------


## OhOh

> as in democratically elected?


As in undemocratically appointed ministers, installed in their position by the Prime Minister, in the UK government system and equally undemocratically dismissed on a whim. As in many other countries.




> It follows the preliminary *findings of a Chinese anti-dumping investigation* into Australia's wine exports* that found that dumping exists and causes Chinese winemakers "substantial harm*".


Dumping is a known WTO offense. Boeing and Airbus have been at it for years and payed substantial penalties - billions of Euros/dollars. 

Takes a few years though, as an unexceptional country will not allow enough WTO adjudicators to be employed.




> China's Commerce Ministry announced that from November 28, importers of Australian wine entering China will need to pay temporary "anti-dumping security deposits"


Which the importers of course they will use as the reason to stop accepting the wine, until they receive the "deposits" in their bank accounts. Should the Chinese importers subsidise the Australian exporters, as well as Australian winemakers?




> an unofficial ban on imports came into effect earlier this month.


Less than a month it seems. Have the exporter paid the "deposits" yet?




> Agriculture Minister David Littleproud said the Australian Government was in contact with Chinese authorities


As illustrated in the ABC post above the Australian Government needs to decide whether they act in the "Australian National Interests" or the "National Interests" of an unexceptional country across the Pacific.




> souring trading relations


As alleged by the ABC interviewer, but not the  responsible Australian Government Minister, at least in the video of the topic by ABC.

----------


## OhOh

> double the tariff on one of their products


But it will hit Apple's ...... profits!

----------


## panama hat

> The "here today, gone tomorrow" politician,





> ...as in democratically elected?


The China-bot can't fathom someone who is not President for life, like Xi.   It's clearly a weakness in a democratic system to have elections with the population involved






> As in undemocratically appointed ministers, installed in their position by the Prime Minister


You're quite clueless as to how a government is elected in a democratically based system, despite your protestations that you are Canadian/British and NOT from China.  
Try again, the chinks in your thinly-cloaked fantasy armour are showing

----------


## hallelujah

> The China-bot can't fathom someone who is not President for life, like Xi.   It's clearly a weakness in a democratic system to have elections with the population involved
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're quite clueless as to how a government is elected in a democratically based system, despite your protestations that you are Canadian/British and NOT from China.  
> Try again, the chinks in your thinly-cloaked fantasy armour are showing


I found myself liking a couple of his posts on the Diego Maradona tribute thread.

And then clicked on his usual nonsense here.

I'm honestly wondering if he and Klondyke are the same bot.

After all, is it really likely to have 2 people religiously spouting their Soviet/China/any old filthy regime propaganda on a random Thai forum predominantly aimed at westerners?

----------


## Looper

*Australia demands China apologise for posting 'repugnant' fake image*

Australia has demanded China apologise for posting a fake picture on a government Twitter account that depicted an Australian soldier murdering an Afghan child.

In a televised address, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Beijing should be "utterly ashamed" for sharing the "repugnant" image.



It comes amid escalating political tensions between the two countries.

The image referred to alleged war crimes by some Australian soldiers.

Warning: This story contains an image some people might find distressing.

Earlier this month, a report found that 25 Australian soldiers were allegedly involved in the murders of 39 Afghan civilians and prisoners between 2009 and 2013.

The findings from the Australian Defence Force (ADF) inquiry sparked widespread condemnation, and are now being investigated by police.

    Australia to sack troops over Afghan killings

On Monday, China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Lijian Zhao posted a doctored image which portrayed an Australian soldier with a bloody knife next to a child. The child is seen holding a lamb.

The Australian Broadcasting Corporation reported the image appeared to be a reference to unsubstantiated rumours that elite Australian soldiers used knives to murder two Afghan teenagers. However, the inquiry found no evidence to support the rumours. 

The tweet said: "Shocked by murder of Afghan civilians & prisoners by Australian soldiers. We strongly condemn such acts, and call for holding them accountable."

Mr Morrison described the post as "truly repugnant, deeply offensive, utterly outrageous".

"The Chinese government should be totally ashamed of this post," he said.

Australia has also requested Twitter remove the post from its platform, describing it as "disinformation".

Australia demands China apologise for posting '&#39;'repugnant'&#39;' fake image - BBC News

----------


## Looper

*Scott Morrison demands apology from China over 'repugnant' fake tweet showing Australian soldier murdering child*

Prime Minister Scott Morrison is demanding the Chinese Government delete a "repugnant" tweet attacking the Australian Defence Force in the wake of a landmark war crimes inquiry.

WARNING: This story contains graphic content that some readers may find upsetting.
Key points:

    China's Foreign Ministry spokesman tweeted a fake image showing an Australian soldier murdering a child
    Scott Morrison is demanding a formal apology from the Chinese Government over the image
    Last week China said it "strongly condemned" the actions of Australian soldiers who allegedly committed war crimes

The Chinese Government posted the extraordinary and violent fake image of an Australian soldier murdering a child, as relations between the two nations continue to spiral downwards.



China and Russia have both attacked Australia in the wake of the release of the Brereton report which found Australian special forces committed at least 39 unlawful killings during the war in Afghanistan.

Mr Morrison said the Government had reached out to the Chinese Government and contacted Twitter to have the post removed.

"Australia's seeking an apology from the Chinese Government for this outrageous post," he said.

"We're also seeking its removal immediately.

    "It is utterly outrageous and cannot be justified on any basis whatsoever, the Chinese Government should be totally ashamed of this post."

"There are undoubtedly tensions that exist between China and Australia, but this is not how you deal with them," Mr Morrison added.

Foreign Minister Marise Payne said there was no justification for the tweet which was the most "egregious" example of social media disinformation she had witnessed in her career.

"The Australian Government has called in the Chinese ambassador and sought an apology from the ambassador in relation to this tweet," she told Question Time.

"We will [also] be conveying that message directly in Beijing through our ambassador."

Opposition Leader Anthony Albanese said he supported the Prime Minister's comments.

"Australia's condemnation of this image is above politics  and we all stand as a nation in condemning it," he said.

Shadow Foreign Minister Penny Wong also deplored the tweet, describing it as as "gratuitous" and "inflammatory".

    "This is not the behaviour of a responsible, mature international power," she said.

"These tactics will be met with unified condemnation in the Australian community and they will be judged harshly by the international community.

"The allegations in the Brereton report have horrified Australia.

"What sets us apart is the dignified, transparent and accountable manner of our response."
The reckoning for alleged crimes is about to begin
Spotlight on a special forces officer pointing a gun at an Afghan man on the ground.

The soldiers of the SAS have been held up as heroes, yet a small number of them are being accused of the most heinous of crimes, including the murder of innocents, writes Mark Willacy.
Read more

The ABC understands that Department of Foreign Affairs Secretary Frances Adamson has spoken to Chinese ambassador Cheng Jingye about Australia's position on the tweet.

Last week China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said China "strongly condemned" the soldiers' actions, and said the report "fully exposed the hypocrisy of the human rights and freedom these Western countries are always chanting".

But today Mr Zhao dramatically intensified his attack on Australia, saying on Twitter he was "shocked by murder of Afghan civilians & prisoners by Australian soldiers."

He accompanied the tweet with the photoshopped image, which appeared to show a grinning Australian soldier holding a bloody knife to the throat of a child who is holding a lamb.

The child's face is covered with a blue cloth. The text beneath the photo reads: "Don't be afraid, we are coming to bring you peace!" 

The photo appears to be a reference to rumours that members of the SAS cut the throats of two 14-year-old Afghan boys who they suspected were Taliban sympathisers.

But those hearsay accounts were never substantiated during the four-year-long Brereton inquiry.

The shocking image seems deliberately designed to provoke anger in Australia. One Federal Government source dismissed the photo as "rank propaganda".

Last week Mr Morrison tried to reframe the debate over the bilateral relationship by praising China's economic record and urging it not to view Australia through the lens of strategic competition with the United States.

But on Friday the Chinese Government announced sweeping tariffs on Australian wine exports which are likely to cripple parts of the industry.

The shocking image posted from Zhao Lijian seems to indicate that Beijing's hostility towards Australia has cemented.

One Federal Government source said the fact the post was given the green light showed that Beijing was intent on displaying contempt towards Australia and would continue ramping up pressure in an attempt to extract concessions. 

Support services

    The Defence all-hours Support Line is a confidential telephone and online service for ADF members and their families 1800 628 036
    Open Arms provides 24-hour free and confidential counselling and support for current and former ADF members and their families 1800 011 046
    Soldier On is a national support services provider for Defence personnel, contemporary veterans, and their families. Contact during office hours 1300 620 380

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-11-30/china-fake-image-australian-war-crimes-afghanistan-tensions/12934538

----------


## harrybarracuda

Filthy chinky scum.

----------


## panama hat

> The Chinese Government posted the extraordinary and violent fake image of an Australian soldier murdering a child


Enter WaahWaah and Kloondyke justifying this vile act with endless articles about how good China is and how and the west is . . . one can only hope that Biden will be merciless when dealing with China on a poltical and economic front

----------


## baldrick

> Scott Morrison demands


the chins will be chortling gum bey and sniggering 

and scotty from marketing will be happy that there is more faux outrage to divert attention from the corruption stories about both state and federal coalition governments

feel free to be manipulated , but that vile scum does not talk for all australians - I personally could not give a fcuk about twitter

----------


## Cujo

> the chins will be chortling gum bey and sniggering


Not to be pedantic (well maybe a little)
but it's gan bei (dry cup)

----------


## Klondyke

> one can only hope that Biden will be merciless when dealing with China on a poltical and economic front


Didn't he start already "be merciless"? 


Even with help of son and granddaughter...

----------


## fishlocker

:sexy: Banned again?

----------


## fishlocker

Hey, the real people don't like this fluger;.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Hey, the real people don't like this fluger;.


Go to bed you alcoholic retard.

----------


## Looper

*China refuses to apologise for doctored image of Australian soldier tweeted by government official*

China has refused to apologise for one of its officials posting a graphic image Prime Minister Scott Morrison has labelled as "repugnant", demanding instead that Australia do some "soul searching" in the wake of a damning war crimes investigation.


Key points:

    A Chinese Government spokeswoman says it is Australia who should feel ashamed of its soldiers' actions
    China's Foreign Ministry spokesman tweeted a picture showing an Australian soldier threatening to kill a child

    Scott Morrison has demanded the Chinese Government apologise for the tweet and asked Twitter to remove it

On Monday, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) spokesman Zhao Lijian tweeted the picture created by a Chinese artist, depicting an Australian soldier holding a bloody knife to the throat of an Afghan child.

The post was in response to the findings of the long-running Brereton inquiry, which recommended 19 current and serving special forces soldiers face criminal investigation for the murder of at least 39 Afghan civilians and prisoners.

Shortly after the post, Prime Minister Scott Morrison described it as "outrageous", demanding it be removed and an apology be issued by the Chinese Government.

Such a response was not forthcoming.

"The Australian Government should do some soul searching and bring the culprits to justice, and offer an official apology to the Afghan people and make the solemn pledge that they will never repeat such crimes," Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said.

    "Earlier, they said the Chinese Government should feel ashamed but it is Australian soldiers who committed such cruel crimes. 

"Shouldn't the Australian Government feel ashamed? Shouldn't they feel ashamed for their soldiers killing innocent Afghan civilians?"
Space to play or pause, M to mute, left and right arrows to seek, up and down arrows for volume.

In releasing the findings of the war crimes investigation earlier this month, Australian Defence Force (ADF) Chief Angus Campbell "sincerely and unreservedly" apologised to the Afghan people for the "wrongdoing" of special forces.

"The Australian side is reacting so strongly to my colleague's Twitter  does that mean that they think the cold-blooded murder of Afghan innocent civilians is justified while other people's condemnation of such crimes are not justified?" Ms Hua said.

"Afghan lives matter."
Read the redacted IGADF report here.

The criticism of Mr Zhao's post came quickly, with allegations of hypocrisy by Beijing for seizing upon the findings of the Brereton inquiry.

China has been accused of gross human rights violations against the ethnic Uyghur minority in Xinjiang province, characterised as "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide".

The irony of a senior official using Twitter to launch such a political attack was also raised, given the censorship of the social media platform by the Chinese Government.
Support services

    The Defence all-hours Support Line is a confidential telephone and online service for ADF members and their families 1800 628 036
    Open Arms provides 24-hour free and confidential counselling and support for current and former ADF members and their families 1800 011 046
    Soldier On is a national support services provider for Defence personnel, contemporary veterans, and their families. Contact during office hours 1300 620 380

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-11-30/chinese-government-refuses-apology-image-australian-soldier/12936154

----------


## panama hat

> Didn't he start already "be merciless"?


He's not the president yet, fuckwit.  This may have escaped your attention . . . as so many things do.

----------


## harrybarracuda

They are desperately trying to put the blame for the Wuhan virus on someone else. So post pictures of batmunchers and see how they like it.

You don't even need to fake the pictures.

----------


## Looper

*China refuses to apologise to Australia for fake soldier image*

China has accused Australia of trying to "deflect public attention" from alleged war crimes by its soldiers in Afghanistan after Canberra expressed outrage over a "repugnant" tweet.

Australia has demanded an apology for sharing the fake image of an Australian soldier killing an Afghan child.



Beijing has now said that Australia was trying to "blame China for the worsening of bilateral ties".

Relations between the two nations have plummeted to a new low in recent days.

The tweet with the fake image was posted in response to a damning report last month about alleged Australian war crimes.

The Australian Defence Force said it had found "credible information" that 25 Australian soldiers were involved in the murders of 39 Afghan civilians and prisoners between 2009 and 2013.

On Monday, China joined in the widespread condemnation of the findings - now under police investigation - but the graphic doctored image shared by foreign ministry spokesman Lijian Zhao has triggered furious reactions in Canberra and beyond.

    Australia demands China apology for 'repugnant' post
    The year when Australia and China hit 'lowest ebb'

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Beijing should be "utterly ashamed" for sharing the "repugnant" image, demanding an apology.

The tweet has also prompted Jacinda Ardern, premier of neighbouring New Zealand, to raise its concerns with Beijing.

But in its response on Tuesday, the Chinese Embassy in Australia attacked Mr Morrison's remarks without offering an apology.

"The accusations made are simply to serve two purposes. One is to deflect public attention from the horrible atrocities by certain Australian soldiers. The other is to blame China for the worsening of bilateral ties. There may be another attempt to stoke domestic nationalism," it said in a statement. 

"It's our advice that the Australian side face up to the crimes committed by Australian soldiers in Afghanistan, hold those perpetrators accountable and bring justice to the victims," the statement added.

Bilateral relations between China and Australia have been deeply strained this year after Canberra led calls for a probe into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic.

A few months ago the last two correspondents working for Australian media in China were evacuated on the advice of diplomats.

More recently two Australian academics were banned from entering China.

There have also been ongoing discussions about Beijing's alleged interference in Australian affairs while economic tensions have grown with trade stoppages and tariffs imposed by China, including tariffs of up to 200% on Australian wine.

On Tuesday premier Arden said New Zealand had directly raised concerns with Chinese authorities.

"It was an unfactual post, and of course that would concern us. So that is something we have raised directly in the manner that New Zealand does when we have such concerns," she told reporters in parliament in the capital Wellington.

China refuses to apologise to Australia for fake soldier image - BBC News

----------


## Looper

*Chinese officials accuse Scott Morrison of stoking nationalism in response to fake Afghan tweet as PM defends position on WeChat*

China has hit back at the Australian Government, accusing it of attempting to "stoke domestic nationalism" by demanding an apology for a tweet depicting an Australian soldier holding a knife to the throat of an Afghan child.


Key points:

    The Chinese embassy says Australia has misread and overreacted to the tweet
    The image was a reference to allegations raised in a review of the ADF
    Australia has demanded China remove the Twitter post and apologise

Prime Minister Scott Morrison, meanwhile, has taken to Chinese social media platform WeChat to again press Australia's position.

Beijing has already rejected demands to apologise for the image, which was shared by China's foreign ministry spokesman, Zhao Lijian, on Monday.

Now, the Chinese embassy in Canberra has issued a fresh statement accusing the Government of trying to deflect attention from atrocities committed by Australian soldiers in Afghanistan.

The embassy has also suggested the Federal Government is trying to stoke nationalism in Australia.

"We would like to further stress the following: The rage and roar of some Australian politicians and media is nothing but misreading of, and overreaction to, Mr Zhao's tweet," a spokesperson said.

"The accusations made are simply to serve two purposes.

"One is to deflect public attention from the horrible atrocities by certain Australian soldiers.

"The other is to blame China for the worsening bilateral ties.

    "There may be another attempt to stoke domestic nationalism."

At a press conference on Tuesday, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying echoed the embassy's comments that the Government's reaction was intended to deflect attention away from the issues raised in the war crimes report.

"I believe many people like me are wondering why the Australian side is reacting so surprisingly strongly and has been trying to shift the blame," she said.

"And tried to replace that with a tough stance on China."

It came as Mr Morrison took to WeChat and used the report by the Inspector-General of the Australian Defence Force to highlight the difference between how Australia and China handled sensitive matters.

"Australia's ability to deal with issues in a transparent and honest way is a strength of this country, and one that recognises all those who serve it," he wrote.


"Even when incidents allegedly occur that require action, we have established honest and transparent procedures for dealing with them.

"This is the way a free, democratic and enlightened nation should be."

Mr Morrison also highlighted what he suggested was a disconnect between the views of Beijing's ruling party and the greater Chinese public, particularly those who called Australia home.

"This post containing false images of Australian soldiers does not diminish the respect and appreciation for the Chinese community in Australia, nor does it diminish our friendship with the Chinese people," he wrote.

"Our Chinese Australian community will continue to play a pivotal role in ensuring that our country remains a successful multicultural nation!"


Last week China confirmed it would impose a 200 per cent tariff on Australian wine while it conducted an anti-dumping investigation.

"All of this is obviously not helpful to the resetting of the bilateral relationship," the spokesperson said.

"It's our advice that the Australian side face up to the crimes committed by the Australian soldiers in Afghanistan, hold those perpetrators accountable and bring justice to victims."

On the release of the Brereton report into alleged war crimes, the chief of the Australian Defence Force, General Angus Campbell, offered an unreserved apology to the people of Afghanistan for soldiers' actions.

He also said soldiers accused of committing war crimes would be dealt with under Australia's justice system and other disciplinary action would be taken on a "case by case" basis, but that nothing was off the table.

The embassy also confirmed the secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT), Frances Adamson, had contacted the Chinese ambassador, Cheng Jingye.

"The ambassador refuted the unwarranted accusations as absolutely unacceptable," the spokesperson said.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-12-01/china-accuses-scott-morrison-of-stoking-nationalism-afghanistan/12939734

----------


## Looper

The original strategy of Beijing's sanctions was to try and use economic coercion to compel Australia's political capitulation.

The gratuitously offensive tweet sanctioned from the top tier of Beijing's government seems to me to be a misstep.

Being so wantonly offensive is unlikely to result in receiving the cooperation they originally desired.

It seems to reveal that Beijing has become frustrated and now fears that Australia is maybe not going to capitulate which would be an embarrassment to a fledgling superpower trying to put on a show of coercive political and economic strength to the watching world.

----------


## Backspin

China is finally sticking up for itself in the media. But this doctored pic was a bit much. They have a lot to learn from the Russians , about how to respond to provocations.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *China refuses to apologise to Australia for fake soldier image*


*Harry refuses to apologise to chinkies for real Wuhan virus batmunching image.
*

----------


## baldrick

> accusing it of attempting to "stoke domestic nationalism"


scotty from marketing has his skill level dissed by the best

----------


## panama hat

> Chinese officials accuse Scott Morrison of stoking nationalism in response to fake Afghan tweet as PM defends position on WeChat


Oh, the irony is off the charts with this one - China uses every possibility to stoke nationalism and xenophobia - fuck 'em




> China is finally sticking up for itself in the media.


Yea . . . nah.  China hasn't stood up for itself in the past?  You can just get fucked




> They have a lot to learn from the Russians , about how to respond to provocations.


Provocations?

Again, you talk utter rubbish, so get fucked and tell us about your most recent LB bj

----------


## Hugh Cow

Australia is a test case for China. It is using its economic clout to try to bend a western democracy to its will. It already does so with Asia with the usual graft and corruption. What Australia does is almost less important to what western democracies do. Already over 100 politicians around the world are encouraging people to buy Australian wine, a small start. 
Western democracies need to leave China in no doubt that this is unexceptable by helping to support Australia in this be it by showing a commitment to purchase some of those specific exports blacklisted by China or at least expressing much more vocal support than most have done so far. 
Allowing China to get away with these tactics will see them repeat them on others. We can expect little support from the E.U. which has much more pressing problems like installing transgender toilets in Brussels. 
We should expect and get support from the U.K. and the USA at the very least as Australia has supported them in the past however I wont hold my breath. Failure to support Australia on this will send a signal to China that they can call the tune regardless of how out of key.

----------


## baldrick

scotty is making noises for his and the LNP image - not for australia

we should be ignoring the cheap shots and concentrating on diversifying our market

unfortunately , scotty wants to move conversation away from the corruption  of several LNP govts and his scummy gas led recovery plan - it will be interesting to see if the foxtel business break up and sale to delaware registered companies attracts attention

----------


## panama hat

I think your obvious anti-ScoMo feelings are detracting from what any leader would have done in the face of Chinese bullying, even Mis Everplease Ardern rebuked China for the tweet and economic bullying.  The new foreign minister just asked vacuously if NZ had said something to displease China . . . what a stupid, pc choice of FM.

Diversification of privately owned products is not that easy to achieve - NZ is i the same boat but they're happy to hitch their wagon to the Chinese juggernaut despite seeing exactly what China did/does/will do whenever they wish.  Again, it's the individual companies that decide who to trade with.

----------


## baldrick

> Diversification of privately owned products is not that easy to achieve


after decades of the easiest path by our highly competent and well paid bureaucrats - now they can work for their cash 

the main reason china smelts our ore is because they can pollute with minimal consequences

with excess electricity australia could do the smelting and refining using hydrogen and be a lot cleaner and then hold strong cards to play against the bullying chins




> I think your obvious anti-ScoMo feelings are detracting from what any leader would have done in the face of Chinese bullying


scotty has been a scumbag all his life - you know he was sacked from tourism NZ back in the 90's for being a cronyism turd

----------


## panama hat

> scotty has been a scumbag all his life - you know he was sacked from tourism NZ back in the 90's for being a cronyism turd


Oh yes . . . quite well publicised here and I'm not saying he's doing a fine job but not everything he touches is crap - like sending Kiwi crims back - good on him for that . . . Kiwis hate it.  MOre of their scumbags on the street and breaking laws here






> after decades of the easiest path by our highly competent and well paid bureaucrats - now they can work for their cash


Of course but it isn't the government nor the bureaucrats, by extension, that cut trade deals - they merely lay the groundwork.  It's the greed of producers/suppliers that has created this problem . . . well, the problem of dependency

----------


## baldrick

> that cut trade deals


I believe they chose their focus because it was easier and had little forethought about the future and having so much dependence - easy to say in hindsight , but I think it is fair criticism

now they should be pivoting hard  - not easy I understand  in these troubled economic times , but they should be driven hard by their leadership to get some diversification

some thoughts by kevin last night

----------


## panama hat

> I believe they chose their focus because it was easier and had little forethought about the future and having so much dependence - easy to say in hindsight , but I think it is fair criticism


Absolutely a fair criticism






> but they should be driven hard by their leadership to get some diversification


This is where government is useful - entering trade negotiations on a G-G level . . . and get rid of the one-way street.






> some thoughts by kevin last night


I seem to remember Rudd being more China-cock-sucking than he comes across as.

----------


## baldrick

> I seem to remember Rudd being more China-cock-sucking than he comes across as.


the murdoch press has spent years throwing mud at him

----------


## Cujo

> The British government has vowed to stand with Australia to protect our key interests and values and push back at disinformation amid a deepening rift in Canberras relationship with Beijing.
> 
> The American ambassador to Australia also accused a Chinese foreign ministry official of spreading disinformation through fabricated images and disingenuous statements about Australia.
> 
> The United Kingdom and the United States are the latest countries to speak out in support of Australia, after France and New Zealand criticised China over an official tweeting a digitally-created image depicting an Australian soldier cutting the throat of a child in Afghanistan.
> 
> China has accused Australia of overreacting to the tweet and hyping the issue for domestic political purposes.
> 
> When asked about the tweeted image, a spokesperson for the UKs Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office told the Guardian the foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, has made clear we will always stand shoulder to shoulder with Australia to make sure that we protect our key interests and values.
> ...


UK and US lock in behind Australia in China row | Australia news | The Guardian

----------


## Headworx

^This latest stunt may well blow up in the faces of these bat eating cvnts. Fingers crossed...

----------


## panama hat

> China has accused Australia of overreacting to the tweet and hyping the issue for domestic political purposes.


As they would . . . the most revolting and insensitive nation on earth is also the most thin-skinned nation on earth.

----------


## baldrick

> This latest stunt may well blow up in the faces


this is not how it plays for domestic consumption - which is what counts in the control of their unwashed

the best thing about this is I think they may be overplaying their hand and the international blowback will leak into their internal bubble - I think they are underestimating the land of qq and it will be another straw added to the load

----------


## OhOh

> but *it isn't* the government nor the bureaucrats, by extension, that cut trade deals


 :rofl: 




> government is useful - entering trade negotiations on a G-G level


Government to Government trade agreements are exactly what Government ministers/politicians do. They sign the agreements, on behalf of all OZ citizens, to take the praise for the effective ones, along with the blame when not.




> Chinese foreign ministry official of spreading “disinformation





> the Australian government had “responsibly  investigated and disclosed allegations that its soldiers committed  crimes in Afghanistan”.


Are you suggesting the soldiers didn't commit human right atrocities, with the knowledge and backing of the OZ military leadership and government officials for many years?




> The United Kingdom and the United States are the latest countries to speak out in support of Australia


No blood under their finger nails then.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> hyping the issue for domestic political purposes.


SOP, for all the media, worldwide.




> who described the Afghanistan tweet as “a new low, even for the Chinese Communist party”.


Factually correct but illustrated it with a less distressing "doctored" image. 

The original published "doctored" image shows a soldieir and a child, with the child obscured. The Chinese published images shows a soldieir and a child, with the child obscured/covered with a lamb.

One must believe the person who photographed the pair has the original negative and the military have an original print. 




> This latest stunt may well blow up in the faces of these


A number of years since the incidents when the OZ military and government have been aware and supported such atrocities.

----------


## Headworx

> A number of years since the incidents when the OZ military and government have been aware and supported such atrocities.


I'm not saying there's no cases to be answered, there are and heads will roll over this. What I _am_ saying is for some Communist shithole that's brought us Coronavirus and has things like The Great Leap Forward and Tiananmen Square on their CV, they should pull their fucking heads in and worry more about the things they pretend never happened rather than telling countries how to behave that don't eat bats, starve tens of millions of their own countrymen to death, or direct their military to mow citizens down by the thousand who want to express themselves against the Gov't. Fuck China and fuck anything resembling it.

----------


## OhOh

> some Communist shithole


Improving their citizens living standards year after year. As opposed to some unexceptional countries where the top 1% get richer and the bottom 50% get poorer?




> that's brought us Coronavirus


Do you have the link to the UN body who have been ordered to report on the virus origin to share with us or are you referring to yesterdays WSJ report?



> Covid-19 Likely in U.S. in Mid-December 2019, CDC Scientists Report





> The Great Leap Forward


Abolishing poverty for a large number of it's citizens or are you referring to another event?




> iananmen Square


Failed colour revolution.




> they pretend never happened


Not sure what this accusation is regarding.




> don't eat bats,


As opposed to Brussel Sprouts?




> tarve tens of millions of their own countrymen to death


Abolishing poverty for a large number of it's citizens




> military to mow citizens down by the thousand


Which event are you referring to?




> Fuck China


Yes, the Chinese don't squeak as much as the Japanese ladies.

----------


## Headworx

^Jesus Christ are you fucking Chinese? Seriously?

----------


## Looper

*Social media platform WeChat censors Scott Morrison's post directed at Chinese community
*
A message by Prime Minister Scott Morrison that was directed at the Chinese community and critical of an inflammatory post by a senior Beijing bureaucrat has been censored by a Chinese tech giant.
Key points:


    Mr Morrison posted the message on Tuesday night, but it was taken down on Wednesday
    A message which replaced it said the PM's post "fabricated social hot topics", among other things
    In the post, the PM defended Australia's handling of the allegations of war crimes

The statement on social media platform WeChat was published on Tuesday night. However, it has now been blocked because it "violates" the company's regulations.

Mr Morrison had taken to WeChat to again voice the Australian Government's disgust at Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijiang's tweet on Monday, which showed a fake image of an Australian soldier created by a Chinese artist.

The Prime Minister said in the WeChat post Australia was dealing with allegations of war crimes detailed in the landmark Brereton Inquiry in an "honest and transparent way", which was how any "free, democratic and enlightened nation" would act.

Mr Morrison followed the swipe at Beijing with a promise the diplomatic spat would not diminish the respect and appreciation Australia had for the Chinese people.
Australia's place in the global order is shifting
A composite image of Xi Jinping and Scott Morrison against red backdrops

Scott Morrison has sent a message to China that Australia will not be America's "deputy sheriff" and Canberra won't be making decisions based on a choice between Washington and Beijing, writes Stan Grant.
Read more

On Wednesday, the WeChat post was no longer accessible.

A message from the social media platform was displayed in its place. It said the post was "involving the use of words, pictures, videos" that would "incite, mislead, and violate objective facts, fabricating social hot topics, distorting historical events, and confusing the public".

The ABC has contacted WeChat's parent company, Tencent, for comment, as well as the Prime Minister's office.

Last year Mr Morrison was grilled by reporters about whether his WeChat account could be censored by the Chinese Government.

He replied: "No, we haven't experienced any such censorship."

One Government official told the ABC it was too early to gauge whether Mr Morrison's post had been pulled down by Tencent on the orders of the Chinese Government.

On Wednesday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying brandished a copy of the Inspector-General of the Australian Defence Force's report into allegations of war crimes in Afghanistan, and took aim at the Australian Government for demanding the tweet by her colleague be removed.

"They are trying to style themselves as defenders of freedom and democracy, but it is a travesty of freedom and democracy," she said.

"It is all double standards and hypocrisy."

Earlier the Chinese embassy in Paris hit out at comments by the French Foreign Ministry labelling the Twitter post "shocking". The embassy accused the French Government of trying to stifle freedom of expression.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-12-02/scott-morrison-post-censored-by-wechat-china/12944796



Quite ironic considering the Chinese minister used Twitter to publish the fake photo which is a completely censored platform in China.

How long can the CCP continue to keep 1.4 billion people in a vacuum sealed political ziplock bag firewalled from the evil dangers of international news, opinion and discourse?

They are sitting on a socio-political time bomb.

----------


## panama hat

> ^Jesus Christ are you fucking Chinese?


He is, didn't you know?   We have two lovelies here who are constantly criticising the 'west' and defending Chin ad Russia, that'd be WahWah and Loondyke - who are probably one and the same.






> They are sitting on a socio-political time bomb.


Yup - but when it implodes the word will be awash with tens or hundreds of millions of Chinese seeking a place to go to.

----------


## baldrick

^ a couple of hundred years of vaginal mixing will result in a chocolate coloured people with minimal protruding eyebrows and medium arse

----------


## helge

> I think your obvious anti-ScoMo feelings are detracting from what any leader would have done in the face of Chinese bullying


I think Baldick has a point.

Which leaders are asking for apologies ?

Chinese and muslim

Siff upper lip and a shrug of shoulders is the answer and you have won

----------


## tomcat

> Stiff upper lip and a shrug of shoulders is the answer


...and a long memory...

----------


## Headworx

> He is, didn't you know?


I didn't, but that explains having his head totally up his arse and thinking China is a human-rights world model that had nothing to do with CV19  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## panama hat

> that explains having his head totally up his arse and thinking China is a human-rights world model that had nothing to do with CV19


Yup . . . and Loondyke is there in support - if they are even two different people

----------


## OhOh

> Jesus Christ are you fucking Chinese


No rebuttal's to my post I see.




> He is, didn't you know


In your dreams.




> who are probably one and the same.


Oh dear.
Maybe the mods, I am presuming they have our real names, if not our  posting locations in their vaults, can confirm or deny your immature  allegation.

No reply from them to the members of TD indicates, once again, your  efforts to denigrate fellow members personally have been thwarted.                         

This dish is still simmering. 


https://twitter.com/HuXijin_GT/statu...75160491458561

Do you blame the postman when you receive your court summons?

The world's media focus on the proven human rights atrocity illustrator. 

The corrupt vassal government leader, on his knees to the right, attempts to switch their guilt to another, ensuring they stay in focus. 

Ignoring the human rights of one of it's own citizens, held in a foreign land on a corrupt governments accusations supported by corrupt court official as observed and documented.

----------


## baldrick

is it a maga cap ?

----------


## OhOh

> is it a maga cap ?


Whatever it is, it was probably made in China.  :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> is it a maga cap ?





> Whatever it is, it was probably made in China.


In which sweatshop do your relatives make them?

----------


## Headworx

> No rebuttal's to my post I see.


You're Chinese, to argue logic with a brain-dead Communist that's never been able to think for himself would be like trying to teach a pig to whistle.

I'll say this though, while you bat eating fucks are going out of your way to deflect attention and blame for destroying the world with your Coronavirus, you'd be better off offering to pay for vaccines that people will soon all need to have. Then humbly apologising for starting/hiding this mess that's killed millions, altered lives forever, and cost uncountable trillions of dollars.

----------


## OhOh

> You're Chinese,


Alleged, but not proven.




> destroying the world with your Coronavirus


Alleged, but not proven by the UN/WHO inquiry.




> pay for vaccines that people will soon all need to have


Shall we await the inquiry's results prior to asking for more money?




> cost uncountable trillions of dollars


Surely the FED can print more?

----------


## Headworx

> Shall we await the inquiry's results.....


This is *exactly* what started the latest bat-eaters vs humans stoush. When the Australian PM (and other world leaders) called for an independent inquiry as to how/where this latest virus out of China began and what steps should be put in place to stop it ever happening again, Winnie the Pooh shit himself. The old loss of face thing is very hard for some cultures to deal with...

 As far as China is concerned there will be _no_ inquiry and if there is it'll be done by Chinese with no foreigners involved in the investigation or reporting of findings. The entire world knows why, except you and your ilk of uneducated brainwashed plebs  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

> When the Australian PM (and other world leaders) called for an independent inquiry as to how/where this latest virus out of China began and what steps should be put in place to stop it ever happening again, Winnie the Pooh shit himself


I see some topic drift here but to answer your reply.

An inclusive and far ranging inquiry was needed rather than focused on one possibility. That is what is now occurring.

Although the possible first reported occurrence/source locations do appear to be increasing.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I see some topic drift here but to answer your reply.
> 
> An inclusive and far ranging inquiry was needed rather than focused on one possibility. That is what is now occurring.
> 
> Although the possible first reported occurrence/source locations do appear to be increasing.


Except it isn't because the chinkies want the "investigation" to look everywhere except where the Wuhan virus started: Hubei.

----------


## panama hat

> I see some topic drift here


Can't have that, can we WahWah . . . 







> As far as China is concerned there will be no inquiry and if there is it'll be done by Chinese with no foreigners involved in the investigation or reporting of findings. The entire world knows why, except you and your ilk of uneducated brainwashed plebs


That about sums it up

----------


## Headworx

> An inclusive and far ranging inquiry was needed rather than focused on one possibility. *That is what is now occurring.*


Really? Which foreign pandemic experts and investigators are there now while this is taking place? Keep in mind, the Chinese Gov't couldn't get foreign reporters out of Wuhan fast enough when this first broke out and questions were being asked. As we all know, *any* report submitted to the world by Chinese will be about as believable as Santa Claus. They lie, that's a given.

----------


## OhOh

> want the "investigation" to look everywhere except where the Wuhan virus started: Hubei.





> Really? Which foreign pandemic experts and investigators are there now while this is taking place?


Limited information is available here:

*Where did COVID come from? WHO investigation begins but faces challenges*

NEWS                                              11 November 2020

Where did COVID come from? WHO investigation begins but faces challengesHere:

*WHO-convened Global Study of the Origins of SARS-CoV-2*

         5 November 2020 | Country mission

WHO-convened Global Study of the Origins of SARS-CoV-2

 Which links to here:

WHO-convened Global Study of the Origins of SARS-CoV-2:

Terms of References for the China Part

31 July 2020

Snips:_

"Approach:

Where  an  epidemic  is  first  detected  does  not  necessarily  reflect  where  it  started.  An  outbreak  of pneumonia  of  unknown  etiology  was  identified  through  surveillance  in  Wuhan,  however  the possibility that  the virus  may  have  silently  circulated elsewhere  cannot  be  ruled  out.  For  example, some countries  have  retrospectively  identified  cases  of  COVID-19  weeks  before  the  first  case  wasofficially  notified  through  surveillance,  and  unpublished  reports  of  positive  sewage  samples  could suggest that the virus may have circulated undetected for some time. 

Implementation Plan

Short term studies (Phase 1) will be conductedto better understand how the virus might have started circulating in Wuhan. Building on the findings of these short-term studies, and the scientific literature, longer term studies will be developed (Phase 2).Theframework  and methodological approaches implemented in China could also be used to study the  virus  origins  elsewhere,  if  warranted.  For  example,  methods  for  serological  surveys  among population groups potentially exposed to animal hosts can be standardized for comparison.
__
Team Composition

The international team will provide a wide range of expertise, from China and several other countries, ensuring a breadth of scientific expertise.  The  team  will  include  experts  in  public  health  and  animal  health  and  human-animal  interface, epidemiology, virology, genomics, environmental health, food safety, among others, both nationally and internationally, including academia, scientists from government organizations, and scientists at WHO, OIE and FAO.The final composition of the international team should be agreed by both China and WHO"_

http://file:///C:/Users/Administrator/AppData/Local/Temp/20200802-tors-chn-and-who-agreed-final-version.pdf

Note this current terms of reference is for the China part of the Global Study. To a study in China, not elsewhere. As noted in the "Approach", it will include the historic, current and presumable any future identified cases, in other countries.

If and when they move on.

----------


## helge

Italians say that they have found the virus in blood samples from sep 2019.

Others say that the italians don't know what they are doing   :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> As we all know, any report submitted to the world by Chinese will be about as believable as Santa Claus. They lie, that's a given.


Yup . . . as do their apologists like WahWah






> Italians say that they have found the virus in blood samples from sep 2019.
> 
> Others say that the italians don't know what they are doing


They're . . . . . . . . Italians, but make great food

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## panama hat

^  :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

Is this an OZ comedy show or an actual government arriving at an important decision?




Australia Exports By Country
Value
Year

 *China*
                         $103.00B
                         2019





                         US$103B
                         2019                     exports/year v AUD400B costs from "the forward looking estimate".

----------


## Headworx

^103 billion is less than what you bat eating cvnts and your virus has cost Australia this year, by far. Can't even imagine what the total costs will be worldwide by the time this is done, certainly trillions, but if you thought everyone hated your uneducated and brainwashed arses before, wait till the borders open up again to see just how despised you are now on the world stage. Could happen to a nicer bunch of peasants.

----------


## OhOh

> wait till the borders open up again


Some borders are already open. Manufactured items, food, even "essential" Christmas presents, if you wear the right badge, are traveling. 

Us "select" people with the correct paperwork and no injections, as well. 

Others are promising further restrictions and more personal attacks on their desperate citizens.

Asia eh, who would have thought the 3rd world countries, run by little brown/yellow people, would manage the financial and medical catastrophe better than the "civilised western" countries. 

Long may it continue.

----------


## panama hat

> Asia eh, who would have thought the 3rd world countries, run by little brown/yellow people, would manage the financial and medical catastrophe better than the "civilised western" countries.


Bit of a racist cvnt, aren't you . . . I guess it's handy when China silences critics, falsifies data, imprisons whistleblowers, murders 'complainers', lies through its teeth and is generally the creator of a worldwide pandemic that will kill millions.

Suits you - so, why aren't you back home in China by now?

----------


## baldrick

fcuk he winds you cnuts up so easy

he is sitting in a thai village and not in a chin one - I am sure he has never visited a country chin village

----------


## OhOh

> why aren't you back home in China by now


I'd miss my current lifestyle, the sun-kissed beaches and the chanting monks. 

Judging by the attendance at the local Chinese "Temple" on celebration days there's a healthy number of the wealthy "Chinese" just here in the village.
 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> I am sure he has never visited a country chin village


Correct.

I was a necessary tool to roll out at our Shanghai office's managements discretion, when there was a perceived need to seal a deal.

 Beijing, Chinese cities and provincial capitals were my hunting grounds. That's where the politicians and decision makers were convinced. Was it my sweet talking, the world class proven solution or the wining and dining.

Villagers had no budget to spend. More fresh ripe mammals around I suspect though

----------


## harrybarracuda

> fcuk he winds you cnuts up so easy
> 
> he is sitting in a thai village and not in a chin one - I am sure he has never visited a country chin village


Of course he hasn't.

----------


## Looper

*How a blow to Australian wine shows tensions with China*

Imagine,  just for a second, the Australian wine industry as a bottle shop. For  decades it had loyal customers overseas - old friends from the UK and  the US partial to an antipodean drop.

Then a few years ago, a new  customer walked in who began eyeing up the reds. Soon, not only were  they spending double the other customers, but they were buying the  high-end stuff, preferring the premium vintages.

China - this top customer - has bought close to 40% of Australia's wine exports in the past few years.

In  2019, China bought more bottled wine from Australia than it did from  France. After an intense few years of marketing and trade deals, this  love affair with Australian winegrowers was fizzing along nicely.

Then  last week it was corked in the neck. China slapped over 200% tariffs on  bottled Australian wine, in a trade hit linked to deteriorating  political relations. The one swift blow exposed again Australia's  economic dependence on Beijing.
'Buy wine for democracy'

Wine  is just the latest Australian export this year to be collateral damage  in the wider political battle. Since May, a string of goods - barley,  beef, copper, sugar, lobsters, timber, coal - have been halted or  otherwise sanctioned by China's Ministry of Commerce.

    Australia and China's new battleground: social media

While  Beijing cites trade reasons for the blockages - accusing Australia of  illegal dumping practices for its wine - analysts say it's become  increasingly clear that the real motivation is political.

That  has spurred politicians around the world this week to release a video  urging people buy Australian wine "to stand up to China's bullying".
The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites.View original tweet on Twitter

The  #SolidarityWithAustralia campaign came from the recently formed  Inter-Parliamentary Alliance of China - a group of 200 MPs from 19  countries known for their hawkish stance on China.

The Australian  senator in the video, Kimberley Kitching, argues that China has  cancelled Australia's exports because of criticism on human rights.

"This isn't just an attack on Australia. This is an attack on free countries everywhere," she says.
Collateral hit

For local wine-growers, the overnight closure of their biggest and richest market is a devastating blow.

The  tariffs at minimum will triple the cost of an Australian bottle for  Chinese buyers. What was once a $100 shiraz might now cost at least  $300.

"Obviously people aren't rushing out to buy that," said  Chester Osborne, a fourth-generation winemaker at the family-owned  D'Arenberg Wines in South Australia's McLaren Vale.

He is a  mid-sized producer. The loss of China means a 20-30% cut to sales; staff  cuts; and grape and bottle price reductions as product bound for China  is returned home likely flooding the market.

For other wine  businesses - such as the 800 exporters dedicated almost exclusively to  shipping Australian drops over to China - it means almost certain  business closure.

At a recent wine-growers meeting, Mr Osborne  told the BBC, the talk was all about international politics. Most  Australian exporters right now- not just wine-growers - are closely  watching the diplomatic play between Canberra and Beijing.

"It's clear as day that that's where we need to be working: how to mend the relationship [with China]," Mr Osborne said.

He contends poor diplomacy on Australia's part has led to these punishments from China.

"The  word 'sorry' would be good. I don't think it's going to come out. But  saying sorry would be a very, very useful way to change the direction."
China's grievances

Beijing's  problems with Australia this year would appear to be articulated in a  list circulated by its embassy in Canberra last month.

It listed  14 areas where it said Canberra had aggravated relations. These included  a 2018 decision to ban Huawei from its 5G tender, not recognising  China's claim in contested South China Sea, and supposed "wanton  interference in Hong Kong, Xinjiang and Taiwan".

But foreign  policy experts have pointed out that these have been longstanding  policies of Australia's. And many - such as criticism of China's harsh  new security law in Hong Kong, or the treatment of its Uighur minority -  merely reflect its values as a liberal democracy.

"For a long  time, Australia complained about human rights issues in China, but the  trade was not affected," says Prof James Laurenceson from the Australia  -China Relations Institute. 

How a blow to Australian wine shows tensions with China - BBC News

----------


## sabang

So, the Morrison governments decision to fall lock step behind the belligerent rhetoric and aggressive anti-China policy of the outgoing trump administration is looking really smart now, isn't it? It appears those on the right who want to talk about and treat China as an enemy have got their wish, at least for now. be careful what you wish for.

----------


## panama hat

> fall lock step behind the belligerent rhetoric and aggressive anti-China policy of the outgoing trump administration


Except it has nothing to do with "the belligerent rhetoric and aggressive anti-China policy of the outgoing trump administration", but that is the apologist talking point.  There were tensions way before Trump joined the scene.




> It appears those on the right who want to talk about and treat China as an enemy have got their wish, at least for now.


Again - nothing to do with left nor right, why would you say that and what wold make you say that?  Even the 'Socialist International' Jacinda, Sweden's Wallström and other left of centre pollies are in agreement about China's hegemony and trampling on human rights (especially the left) and coercion of 'local' nationals.  

Nah, you'll have to do better than that to be an apologist for China's behaviour.

----------


## sabang

> Except it has nothing to do with "the belligerent rhetoric and aggressive anti-China policy of the outgoing trump administration"


It has everything to do with it- it was parrotting mike pompeousarse'  invective that kicked off this mess in the first place. Now the pollies, pressured of course by business lobbies, are scrambling to find a solution. 
So how does it feel to be bitchslapped, Dept'y Sheriff? Uncle Sam gonna come riding to your rescue, fair damsel in distress? Thanks for costing us billions.

----------


## Grumpy John

I like a good conspiracy theory...especially if it is plausible.  It goes like this.  The CCP have a whole range of deadly chemicals they could use to destroy countries but they held back as the down side if caught out was catastrophic.  So some CCP boffin came up with a virus and a plausible story how to release it and destroy the rest of the world and be in a position to become top dog.  Of course killing a few Chinese peasants along the way would make it seem like their story had some validity.  Unfortunately for them the virus hasn't been as useful killing off the foreigners jn large numbers but has done a reasonable job damaging the world economy.  Where are the Myth Busters when you need them???  :Sad:

----------


## sabang

You can't sell shit to dead people. Why would China want to kill off all of those customers?

----------


## panama hat

> You can't sell shit to dead people. Why would China want to kill off all of those customers?


 . . . right . . . because a few customers less for some $50 trinket will make the difference, sabang. 


For someone who has lived in the area you really don't know the mentality.

----------


## baldrick

self defence




BBC NEWS | South Asia | Tibetans shot 'in self-defence'

----------


## sabang

> For someone who has lived in the area you really don't know the mentality.


Lived HK 12.5 years, married to a HK Chinese wife, speak slightly atrocious Cantonese, even lived with a Chinese family (the inlaws) for a while but... don't know their mentality. Yeh sure. Guess we need armchair experts like donald trump for that.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It has everything to do with it- it was parrotting mike pompeousarse'  invective that kicked off this mess in the first place. Now the pollies, pressured of course by business lobbies, are scrambling to find a solution. 
> So how does it feel to be bitchslapped, Dept'y Sheriff? Uncle Sam gonna come riding to your rescue, fair damsel in distress? Thanks for costing us billions.


Typical chinky-style bullshit to try and deflect away from the truth. "Chinky bullying is because of USA blah blah blah" fuck off, it's because Australia said it wants a proper investigation of the chinkies coverup of the Wuhan Virus.

It is all coming out now, and they are doing their best to silence any critics and try and blame everyone else but themselves.

Not to mention slyly buying up all the worlds PPE at the time so everyone else suffered.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Lived HK 12.5 years, married to a HK Chinese wife, speak slightly atrocious Cantonese, even lived with a Chinese family (the inlaws) for a while but... don't know their mentality. Yeh sure. Guess we need armchair experts like donald trump for that.


So that's where you learned to bullshit.

----------


## sabang

> "Chinky bullying is because of USA blah blah blah"


More specifically, chinky bullying is because of some dumbarsed aussie politicians parroting that outgoing, belligerent USA dumbarse pompousarse. Obviously magnified by the Murdoch media- which really seems to have it in for Australia. That is what kicked it off anyway, although there were several other grievances too. Such as Huawei.

Yeh, that will do. Anyway, counting the cost now, just as I said would happen. Still counting....  

On the bright side, some bargain wines to be had, just in the lead up to Xmas season.  :cmn:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> More specifically, chinky bullying is because of some dumbarsed aussie politicians parroting that outgoing, belligerent USA dumbarse pompousarse. Obviously magnified by the Murdoch media- which really seems to have it in for Australia. That is what kicked it off anyway, although there were several other grievances too. Such as Huawei.
> 
> Yeh, that will do. Anyway, counting the cost now, just as I said would happen. Still counting....  
> 
> On the bright side, some bargain wines to be had, just in the lead up to Xmas season.


The chinkies will bully anyone if they can't bribe them.

It's their _modus operandus_.

----------


## Norton

> Australia V China


Interesting thread. Been watching it daily. General observation is Austrailia is punching way above it's weight class. China is an "800-pound gorilla". A person, organization or nation so powerful that it can act without regard to the rights of others or the law.

So my Aussie mates. Grin and bear it.  :Smile:

----------


## helge

> modus operandus.


Who's he ?

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Interesting thread. Been watching it daily. General observation is Austrailia is punching way above it's weight class. China is an "800-pound gorilla". A person, organization or nation so powerful that it can act without regard to the rights of others or the law.
> 
> So my Aussie mates. Grin and bear it.


Correct, Australia can't do it on their own. Needs a concerted effort.

----------


## helge

> So my Aussie mates. Grin and bear it.


Absolutely

Denmark is on the receiving end these days.

Has offered asylum to Hong Kong dissidents, and then we know what happens.

I think that the chinese outbursts will be mostly ignored


The difference being, that we are NOT exporting "all" our goods to one customer

Not too bright those aussies

----------


## baldrick

> Correct, Australia can't do it on their own.


if we got our leaders heads out of murdochs arse and knocked them on the head we could be starting our own green steel empire using hydrogen from wind and solar in north west aust

----------


## harrybarracuda

> if we got our leaders heads out of murdochs arse and knocked them on the head we could be starting our own green steel empire using hydrogen from wind and solar in north west aust


But you're selling your coal not using it.

----------


## sabang

> So my Aussie mates. Grin and bear it.



Well, it's not all bad. A lobster & champagne Christmas coming up! Prices for lobster are the lowest they've been in decades. If Australia wants to bring it's prices down, I'm quite happy to enjoy the fruits of the lucky country- while it lasts. Not a bad spot to be in SA either- HQ of the lobster, oyster & wine industry in Oz! I guess their stupidity is my Christmas cheer.




*Cheap lobsters on offer for Christmas tables as prices plummet due to China import ban*


Cheap lobsters on offer for Christmas tables as prices plummet due to China import ban - ABC News

----------


## harrybarracuda

The good thing is if the chinkies keep running around doing this to everyone it will encourage the victims to get together.

----------


## helge

> The good thing is if the chinkies keep running around doing this to everyone it will encourage the victims to get together.


I'm afraid money talks more than even you do

----------


## Norton

> A lobster & champagne Christmas coming up!


The silver lining. Envy you Sab. No lobster n champagne up here for Christmas. Somtom and Spy I think.  :ourrules: 




> Correct, Australia can't do it on their own. Needs a concerted effort.


Yep. 5, 200 lb gorillas will do nicely.

----------


## Loy Toy

I have always maintained that Australia has everything to become totally self sufficient but mistakes have been made over the last 4 decades.

These mistakes, mainly the shutting down and relocation of its engineering and manufacturing industries, needs to be reversed and when that happens fuck China.

I would also suggest that Australia become a serious nuclear power and build their military to protect what every other country, mainly China, covet.

----------


## panama hat

> The silver lining. Envy you Sab. No lobster n champagne up here for Christmas. Somtom and Spy I think.


In lovely New Zealand prices have gone up . . . with the 'reasoning' that there's little foreign labor so production is lower, fewer exports = ergo sum: prices must go up.

Orchards here are geared for export - second grade products are sold locally.  We're now at NZD$4.50/kg of apples.  Roughly 1,-/apple.  

Prices of seafood here are absurd

----------


## sabang

We've got problems getting our veges picked- no backpackers. So vege prices are up- but seafood way down and wine being moderately discounted, at least in SA. 
So it's oysters, tuna sashimi & steak, & lobster for Xmas- and just a few veges. Oh, and wine of course. Shouldn't complain, Scotty from marketing just handed me a christmas gift.  :Smile:

----------


## hallelujah

> Shouldn't complain, Scotty from marketing just handed me a christmas gift.


A 4 pack of Fosters or a tub of Vegemite?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I'm afraid money talks more than even you do


Precisely my point you fucking moron.

----------


## baldrick

> We've got problems getting our veges picked- no backpackers.


I think most of them used to be picked by trafficked slaves - shipped in by unscrupulous companies under subsidized visa systems and nickle and dimed to poverty wages while complicit bureaucrats dreamed about going up grades as they fulfilled their quotas

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I think most of them used to be picked by trafficked slaves - shipped in by unscrupulous companies under subsidized visa systems and nickle and dimed to poverty wages while complicit bureaucrats dreamed about going up grades as they fulfilled their quotas


Is that like the dead UK winkle pickers or whatever?

----------


## sabang

*China suspends importation of more Australian beef as trade battle escalates*

China has suspended the importation of more Australian beef, this time from Meramist Pty Ltd, the sixth supplier to face such a move in a country that is one of China's main meat suppliers.



China made the decision on Monday but did not provide a reason.

It has already banned imports from five other Australian beef suppliers this year, citing reasons that have included issues with labelling and health certificates.

Australia's ties with China — its top trade partner — were already strained.

The relationship has significantly deteriorated since Canberra called for an inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus.

China stopped receiving applications and registration for beef exports from the Meramist plant from December 7, China's General Administration of Customs said in a notice on its website, without giving a reason.

Mike Eathorne, the general manager of Meramist, told the ABC on Monday night he had only just received the news.

China suspends importation of more Australian beef as trade battle escalates (msn.com)


I'm not sure who invented the Thumbscrew. Maybe China just copied and improved it.  ::chitown::

----------


## panama hat

> The relationship has significantly deteriorated since Canberra called for an inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus.


Yea . . . China will crash and burn at one stage in the future and not a tear will be shed

----------


## sabang

^I've been hearing that for 25 years now. Still waiting.  ::chitown::

----------


## panama hat

> ^I've been hearing that for 25 years now. Still waiting.


Did anyone say it would happen today?  Tomorrow?  

The beast of self-enrichment and quasi-capitalism has been unleashed in the land of equality . . . if you've ever been to rural China you'd have seen the poverty.  Cities with new buildings but impoverished areas.
Itinerant workers being driven past gleaming skyscrapers (mostly empty) on their way to their factory jobs at subsistence level pay . . . farmers holding the real power, held in place only by the ever-present CCP.  

It's a gradual process.  No need to wait and count the days, sabang.  It'll happen.  There's simply no way it won't

----------


## sabang

So do you think China will collapse before or after the USA?

----------


## Hugh Cow

China has forgotten the golden rule. "Look after your friends on the way up. You may need them on the way down". 
America stays up purely because it is in most countries interest for it to be so. The collapse of the USD is in no ones' interest and the EU as well as many other countries use the USA's military might to save a shed load of money on their own defence.
 When that changes who can say.

----------


## baldrick

chinas collapse will come from within - its archaic methods of feudal privilege beating the peasants will not stand in the era of modern communications

----------


## harrybarracuda

> chinas collapse will come from within - its archaic methods of feudal privilege beating the peasants will not stand in the era of modern communications


Oh I don't know. Like the mad mullahs of Iran and Vlad the Embezzler, Mr. Shithole has a particular propensity for "disappearing" those who put his rule at risk.

----------


## panama hat

> So do you think China will collapse before or after the USA?


One has little to do with the other, we're talking about China - why are you deflecting?






> chinas collapse will come from within - its archaic methods of feudal privilege beating the peasants will not stand in the era of modern communications


This is pretty much it.  Tyrannical forms of government fail eventually.

Why do you not think that China is a dictatorship run by a self-appointed president for life?

----------


## helge

> Tyrannical forms of government fail eventually.


Nothing lasts forever. Lasted for thousands of years in China though

What will happen, when 1,5 billion chinese are let loose ?



> Why do you not think that China is a dictatorship run by a self-appointed president for life?


Because it's the best for the rest of us ?  :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> What will happen, when 1,5 billion chinese are let loose ?


Oh, absolutely . . . long may the tyrannical dictatorship in China last . . . and please take my father-in-law into your bosom

----------


## helge

> my father-in-law


Yes
Sorry for my post above

I was out for a cup of coffee and the cynic in me posted  :Sad:

----------


## sabang

> One has little to do with the other, we're talking about China - why are you deflecting?


So you don't think China & the USA are being compared and contrasted out there? Don't be so naive, they are the two global superpowers- and competing political systems. Increasingly bellicose rhetoric coming from the USA too, because they know they are being outperformed in many if not most key areas. Who would you say is winning right now?

And as far as 'collapse of Empire' goes, would you say the USA looks more politically and societally stable than China right now?  ::chitown::

----------


## AntRobertson

> *Australia V China*


I haven't been keeping up with this thread, what's the score?

----------


## panama hat

Again, your OhNo/Klondyke-esque effort in veering off the topic and trying to include the US is commendable but not the issue

Try again

----------


## sabang

So no answers, just platitudes. Try thinking with your head and not your heart PH. And try answering a single question. 
But the score- Australia 0; China 1. Knockout. Even the Amerkin Ref can't change that. Nice one, Australian government.

----------


## panama hat

> So no answers, just platitudes.


Nope, you're the one veering off and deflecting and I have very little 'heart' in the discussion.  

You want to to count Oz v China . . . might as well make it 0-50 . . . and if your questions are relevant I will

----------


## OhOh

> One has little to do with the other, we're talking about China


The thread title is:




> Australia V China


Oz is "managed" externally, as it has been for centuries:





*The Australia-United States defence alliance*

_
"An enduring alliance with the United States (US) remains Australia’s  most important defence relationship and continues to act as a crucial  force multiplier for Australian Defence Force (ADF) capability. However,  increasing financial constraints, the rise of China and the uncertain  nature of the US rebalance within the Pacific all pose important  questions about how Australia will further consolidate its relationship  with the US across the next decade and beyond."

The Australia-United States defence alliance– Parliament of Australia
_




From the Archives, 1985: Keating opens Australia to foreign banks

----------


## panama hat

> The thread title is:


Nothing to do with the US, fuckwit . . .

----------


## sabang

^^ You clearly do not know the Australian banking system- which is not dominated by foreign banks at all, rather the "Big Four", being Commonwealth, Westpac, ANZ & NAB- all Australian owned. Between them, they have 80% of the home loan market. The fifth largest bank, Bendigo, is also Australian owned.

I used to work for Deutsche Bank & Merrill Lynch (now part of BoA) in Sydney. They are investment banking operations, with international Private banking facilities for HNW customers only.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I used to work for Deutsche Bank & Merrill Lynch (now part of BoA) in Sydney.


Where you a contract cleaner or on the payroll?

----------


## sabang

Stock jockey.

----------


## OhOh

> You clearly do not know the Australian banking system


No I have not checked their share registry.




> Commonwealth, Westpac, ANZ & NAB


Your three named banks are listed on the OZ stock exchange. Thus, unless only OZ citizens are allowed to purchase shares, they are subject to international political and financial, manipulations, as are all banks unless privately owned.

*The  Commonwealth Bank of Australia, or CommBank*,

 is an Australian  multinational bank with businesses across New Zealand, Asia, the United  States and the United Kingdom. 

WikipediaStock price: CBA (ASX) A$83.18 +1.37 (+1.67%)

Dec 9, 16:10 GMT+11 - Disclaimer

*Westpac Banking Corp*

ASX: WBC

*NATIONAL AUSTRALIA BANK LIMITED NAB*

Last Price / Today's Change23.440                          +0.130 (0.557%)

20.07 AUD −0.070 (0.35%)Dec 9, 16:10 GMT+11 · Disclaimer

----------


## Looper

> Thus, unless only OZ citizens are allowed to purchase shares, they are subject to international political and financial, manipulations, as are all banks unless privately owned.


Australia has a heavily regulated banking system. One of the reasons Oz got off comparatively lightly in 2008.




> CBA (ASX) A$83.18 +1.37 (+1.67%)


Holy smokes $83

 :party43:

----------


## Latindancer

China has continued its attack on Australian exports, with its ban on  timber now including products from Tasmania and South Australia.

China bans timber exports from South Australia and Tasmania

----------


## OhOh

> China has continued its attack on Australian exports,


*China cracks down on more Australian exports*


_"A notice from China’s custom officials  claimed pests had been detected in shipments of timber logs from the two  Australian states.
_
_“Recently, the  customs of Shanghai, Ningbo, Xiamen, and Qingdao intercepted live forest  pests from imported logs from Tasmania and South Australia,” the notice  said.
_
_“The relevant situation has been notified to the Australian authorities.”
_
_As  a result, the country has banned any shipments that were sent from  these states from December 3 in a bid to “prevent the pests entering  China and to protect our country’s forestry and ecological safety”."_

China bans timber exports from South Australia and Tasmania


I believe there are OZ laws to ensure no "pests" are imported into the country, no?*

Importing live plants into Australia*

One clause:
_
Process for importing live plant material

  If you want to import live plant material to Australia, follow these  steps to make sure that you meet all import conditions, and packaging  and treatment requirements.
_
_
"As of  9 April 2018, the department will no longer facilitate the  clearance of conditionally non-prohibited goods that arrive without the  required import permit. Therefore live plant material that require an  import permit, but arrives without one, including where an application  is currently under consideration, will be directed for export from  Australian territory or required to be destroyed in an approved manner."_
Importing live plants into Australia - Department of Agriculture

You may wish to revise why you, the pot, are calling a kettle black.

----------


## Latindancer

Dear oh dear....they import millions of tons of our timber and they found a few bugs ?

----------


## panama hat

> Dear oh dear....they import millions of tons of our timber and they found a few bugs ?


 . . . and they export covid-19 to the world unasked and kill millions . . . a serious bunch of whiny little bitches

----------


## harrybarracuda

Yes, there is a certain irony that the country that gave the world the Wuhan virus is complaining about bugs.

 :rofl:

----------


## Headworx

^Hard to think why they're so irate towards countries and people wanting a full independent inquiry into the origins, you'd think they'd be insisting that _did_ happen to clear their good name. 

Fucking bat eating lying cvnts...

----------


## sabang

Ockers revenge- lets send the bastards a batch of bad bundy.

----------


## helge

> and they export covid-19 to the world


Now now

Shouldn't we wait for the 'Morrison Inquiry' ?

 :Smile:

----------


## Looper

*China's $200m 'fishery' deal on Australia's doorstep raises eyebrows*

Amid the din and racket of politics at the end of what has been, by any measure, an extraordinary year, the continuing and growing deterioration in our trade relationship with China has lost its novelty value.

More tariffs on Australian wines this week? More restrictions on meat and timber? The gradual but relentless closing down of trading opportunities with China has reached that stage in the news cycle where you struggle to remember which sanctions are old and which ones are new and, besides, there isn't much expectation that anything is going to emerge to break the stalemate any time soon.
Have we hit peak China?
A windmill in the outback in front of clouds lit up red and orange by a sunset.

As trade and political tensions simmer, speculation swirls about what's really going on between the two nations  and what's next on a Chinese sanctions "hit list".
Read more

You can only ask Trade Minister Simon Birmingham so many times whether he has picked up the phone to his Chinese counterpart.

And the escalation of rhetoric a week ago over the controversial Chinese tweet about alleged Australian war crimes also just became part of the background noise of a messy final week of Federal Parliament, in which the Government finally got through legislation which would allow it to block foreign arrangements entered into by state and local governments, like the memorandum of understanding signed by the Victorian Government linking it to the Chinese Belt and Road Initiative.

The agreement set to escalate the growing sense of threat

The Belt and Road Initiative is the gargantuan infrastructure network China's President Xi Jinping launched in 2013, establishing land and sea routes, and ports, as well as economic dependencies in many poor countries.

While the legislation  which would also see university research agreements with Chinese partners vetted by federal officials  may have been passed, the expectation has been that it would be unlikely that the Federal Government would actually intervene in any of these agreements in the short term, given the already poor nature of the bilateral relationship just now.
Australia's place in the global order is shifting
A composite image of Xi Jinping and Scott Morrison against red backdrops

Scott Morrison has sent a message to China that Australia will not be America's "deputy sheriff" and Canberra won't be making decisions based on a choice between Washington and Beijing, writes Stan Grant.
Read more

But another agreement signed under the BRI is about to escalate the growing sense of threat that increasingly underlies the Australia-China relationship.

Last month, Papua New Guinea signed a memorandum of understanding to build a $200 million "comprehensive multi-functional fishery industrial park" on Daru Island. Google Daru. There isn't much there, including fish.

As Jeff Wall, a long time adviser to the PNG Government, wrote in the Australian Strategic Policy Institute's publication The Strategist this week, "the town of Daru is the closest PNG community to Australia. Even though it is around 200 kilometres from the Australian mainland, it is very close to the islands of the Torres Strait that are within our northern border."

Wall noted that there was little doubt the MOU with China's Fujian Zhonghong Fishery Company project was sponsored directly by the Chinese government as it was announced "by China's Ministry of Commerce, supported by Beijing's powerful ambassador in Port Moresby, Xue Bing, who declared that the investment 'will definitely enhance PNG's ability to comprehensively develop and utilise its own fishery resources'."
Port Moresby, the capital of Papua New Guinea
Last month, Papua New Guinea signed a memorandum of understanding.(Wikimedia Commons)
Fears operation will 'vacuum everything up'

Federal MP Warren Entsch, whose electorate covers the Torres Strait, is just one figure in Canberra most alarmed at the development, and who questions why you would build such a huge fishing operation in a place where there aren't a lot of fish.

He says there is currently an under-utilised mackerel fishery, a bit of trout and some lobsters. The fishing rights in the Torres Strait are shared under a treaty between Australia and PNG and Entsch says the fishery has been well managed to avoid over-fishing.
Your big questions about China trade war answered

We asked you to put your burning questions to three of the ABC's China experts. These were some of the top responses.
Read more

His concern is that a big Chinese fishing operation would "just come in and vacuum everything up", putting at risk, apart from anything else, the subsistence living of many of the locals.

The Guardian noted last month that Chinese fishing fleets have devastated local fish stocks in other parts of the world. "In August, just off the Galapagos Islands, an armada of nearly 300 Chinese vessels logged 73,000 hours of fishing in a month, hauling in thousands of tonnes of squid and fish," it wrote.

Entsch believes the issue is on the radar of Foreign Minister Marise Payne, but he has been unable to see her to discuss it since the deal was announced a few weeks ago.

Of course, there may just be a few more strategic reasons than fish involved in the Chinese building a massive port just to the north of Australia.

But even if it were not to become a major naval base for the Chinese military, the idea of a large Chinese fishing fleet in the region poses big problems for Australia.
Warren Entsch smiles as he leans against a wall in Parliament.
Federal MP Warren Entsch, whose electorate covers the Torres Strait, is just one figure in Canberra most alarmed at the development.(AAP: Mich Tsikas)

There is already a substantial Border Force presence in the Torres Strait, based out of Thursday Island, which focuses on illegal fishing (until now particularly by Indonesian fisherman) and on stopping the importation of drugs and other contraband from PNG to northern Australia.

It is part of Operation Resolute, which is the defence contribution to patrolling Australia's Exclusive Economic Zone.
'It will hardly be ideal for the Australian Border Force'

The prospects of encounters, and the complexities of policing the Strait are about to become a lot more complicated.

As Wall, says, "if the project goes ahead, it's reasonable to assume that Chinese fishing boats will be active in the seas around Daru, and in the Torres Strait".
Reading the BRI's fineprint

More and more countries are choosing to ink agreements with China on its trillion-dollar Belt and Road initiative, but what are countries actually agreeing to when they sign on?
Read more

"They may use fishermen from Daru and elsewhere in Fly River Province, something the Chinese ambassador was clearly alluding to.

"It will hardly be ideal for the Australian Border Force, which patrols the strait, to have to decide which fishing boats and crew are actually from PNG and which might be fronts for Chinese operators from the 'multi-faceted' facility."

Wall says that PNG, which was one of the last countries in the region to sign a BRI agreement with China in 2018, is now the scene of intense activity, with China involved in negotiating around $3 billion of contracts for roads in the poverty stricken nation.

Australia has obviously and belatedly recognised the threat that PNG's vulnerability represents: hence our own recent decision to upgrade Manus Island to a naval base.
Investment surely raises questions

A $200 million "fishery" investment in an area not known for an abundance of fish but strategically as close to Australia as you can get, surely raises questions about the real agenda.

It seems unlikely that the deal can be stopped. As a sovereign country, PNG would hardly be happy about Australia telling it what deals it can do, or reneg upon.
Australian PM Scott Morrison and his PNG counterpart James Marape, July 22 2019.
As a sovereign country, PNG would hardly be happy about Australia telling it what deals it can do.(Facebook)

Daru is the capital of the so-called Western province of PNG, which is particularly poor, and particularly poorly served by the government in Port Moresby.

There has been considerable aid poured into the area over the years by Australia.

But, just as our relationship with China unravels, the Daru proposal shows how we must seriously escalate our efforts to assist the economic development of poor nations in our region who are so rightly lured by the spectre of massive dollars from Beijing.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-12-12/australia-recognised-threat-png-vulnerability-represents-china/12974846

----------


## harrybarracuda

> His concern is that a big Chinese fishing operation would "just come in and vacuum everything up", putting at risk, apart from anything else, the subsistence living of many of the locals.


He is, of course, absolutely correct.




> China involved in negotiating around $3 billion of contracts


All of which no doubt benefits a few "officials" and will involve more "debt diplomacy" to build more white elephants, which is chinky SOP.

----------


## Latindancer

The Chinese mode of operation is that they get the thin end of the wedge inserted and then slowly expand. They have demonstrated this time and again.

It's only a hop, skip and jump from that base over to the Coral Sea, which is still a pristine environment. As Chinese fishing boats have already been raping the resources around the Galapagos, which is much, much further away, of course they will go and fish out the Coral Sea.

Mark my words.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> The Chinese mode of operation is that they get the thin end of the wedge inserted and then slowly expand. They have demonstrated this time and again.
> 
> It's only a hop, skip and jump from that base over to the Coral Sea, which is still a pristine environment. As Chinese fishing boats have already been raping the resources around the Galapagos, which is much, much further away, of course they will go and fish out the Coral Sea.
> 
> Mark my words.


All part of a plan to tie up resources from beholden countries. Australia is unlikely to take money from China for "road to nowhere" projects but has shortsightedly  managed to get itself in a position of economic dependence on China. In fairness other countries are not above applying pressure on economically dependent countries but China has ruthlessly taken it to a whole new level. 
  China has now targeted the lucrative lobster trade from Australia and is now squeezing Australian exports. Just one of many as it tries to strangle Australia economically. The upside is a good supply for Australians at Christmas at lower prices.
Australia has the third largest EEZ in the world. IMO it will become a target for the Chinese in the near future. Maybe part of the "appeasement" that will be required to ease the "hurt feelings" of the Chinese people will be access to Australia's vast fishing grounds.

----------


## tomcat

> Australia is unlikely to take money from China for "road to nowhere" projects but has shortsightedly managed to get itself in a position of economic dependence on China


...the trade restrictions imposed by China might be seen as a blessing then: Aussie exporters will be forced to develop and expand into new markets and reinvigorate trade ties with other countries in order to reduce reliance on China...the sooner and more robustly this is accomplished, the more effective the pushback to Chinese economic aggression...

----------


## sabang

^^ TBH they've been pretty well behaved when it comes to fishing. So far. Most of the illegal fishing boats we apprehend here are Indon or Taiwanese, sometimes Japs & Koreans too.

----------


## panama hat

> ...the trade restrictions imposed by China might be seen as a blessing then: Aussie exporters will be forced to develop and expand into new markets and reinvigorate trade ties with other countries in order to reduce reliance on China...the sooner and more robustly this is accomplished, the more effective the pushback to Chinese economic aggression...


Yes, this.  ^







> TBH they've been pretty well behaved when it comes to fishing.


Only around waters near Oz, though.  They trawl fairly well everywhere

----------


## Looper

*As Australia's relationship with China deteriorates beyond repair, we need to find new trade partners*

So, what's Plan B?

For Australian exporters suddenly caught in the headlights of an increasingly hostile regime in Beijing, the answer, it appears, is: there isn't one.

If it hasn't sunk in quite yet, the chances of a rapprochement are slimming by the day and any chance of mending the relationship now seems out of reach.

Plan A, so far, has involved increasingly shrill cries from our business leaders berating Canberra and the media for ruffling the waters and endangering our lucrative $250 billion two-way trade with the world's second-biggest economy.

What's required, they claim, is a "reset", otherwise known as capitulation. Even if that ever was an option, it's way too late.
Your big questions about China trade war answered

We asked you to put your burning questions to three of the ABC's China experts. These were some of the top responses.
Read more

After years of covert infiltration into our political, cultural and educational institutions, the Chinese Communist Party, a regime that tolerates no dissent at home or abroad, now is making no bones about what it has always expected from Australia: subjugation.

Having realised that won't be happening, and with its dreams of a vast quarry and food bowl run by a compliant colony at the bottom of the region now in tatters, it is rapidly shifting its attention elsewhere for produce.

The speed and scale of Beijing's retaliation and the increasingly vitriolic language it has employed in the past eight months should be warning enough that we no longer can count on China as a stable source of income.

It is time we moved on. Beijing already is well advanced on its decoupling strategy as it thumbs its nose at global trade rules and systematically shuts Australia out of every conceivable commodity with the most spurious of excuses.

The only Australian product that will not attract any penalty from Beijing, for possibly a decade, is iron ore. It is the vital ingredient for China's ongoing infrastructure stimulus programs. Without it, China would struggle to maintain economic growth. That, in turn, would endanger employment and social stability, a prospect that sends shudders through Chinese Communist Party leadership.
Iron ores are unloaded at a port in Lianyungang,
China relies on importing iron ore, giving Australia some leverage in negotiations.(Reuters)

For the time being, it cannot source iron ore in sufficient quantity anywhere else. It is the one area where Australia holds the power in the two-way relationship. More on that later.

For anyone who expects a return to normal from the massive China tourism trade or education industry once COVID-19 restrictions are lifted, dream on.

In 2018/19, the last time we had normal readings, Chinese tourists topped the list with almost 1.5 million arrivals. Chinese students, mostly to our universities, dominated our academic exports, contributing about $12.1 billion.

That may make a serious dent in our education sector exports, but it may help restore integrity to our higher education system.

It is not that ordinary Chinese citizens won't want to come. It is just that they will be discouraged and it is unlikely they will ever arrive in the same numbers.
How we came close to total domination by China

While most commentators point to Prime Minister Scott Morrison's call for an independent investigation into the origins of COVID-19 virus as the turning point, the deterioration in our trading relationship goes back a decade.

It began with a spat over iron ore. Rio Tinto, on the verge of collapse in the wake of the global financial crisis, secured a deal with a Chinese government-owned firm called Chinalco to hand over control of the world's most valuable iron ore mines in Western Australia's Pilbara.
Australia's place in the global order is shifting
A composite image of Xi Jinping and Scott Morrison against red backdrops

Scott Morrison has sent a message to China that Australia will not be America's "deputy sheriff" and Canberra won't be making decisions based on a choice between Washington and Beijing, writes Stan Grant.
Read more

The Chinese Communist Party effectively would have been delivered control of global iron ore pricing, and with it, Australia's future economic wellbeing.

It was an outrageous proposal, struck at the bottom of the market, that enraged Rio shareholders and sent shivers through Canberra and rival iron ore producers. Eventually, it was kiboshed by a proposal from BHP to merge the pair's Pilbara operations; a concocted deal that was never likely to be approved by competition regulators.

Retribution was swift. Within weeks of Rio rescinding the Chinalco agreement, its entire Shanghai-based marketing team  led by Australian Stern Hu  was arrested on bribery charges and eventually jailed after secret court hearings.

Had that deal gone ahead, we now would be powerless.
Iron ore: China's Achilles heel

Late last week, an irate Luo Tiejun, head of the China Iron and Steel Association, demanded an explanation via a video conference call from senior BHP executives over the soaring price of iron ore.

The meeting reportedly involved a "candid exchange of views" on BHP's production, sales and pricing.
Chinese media contingent at Diggers and Dealers Mining Forum
Chinese media watching closely at a Diggers and Dealers event in Kalgoorlie.(ABC News: Kathryn Diss)

Iron ore is the economic lifeblood of China. Like most major economies, China's growth is driven by stimulus. A huge part of that revolves around infrastructure spending, on residential and office towers and high-speed rail. All of it requires steel. And the key ingredient is iron ore.

Without it, growth would slide and unemployment rise, resulting in social unrest.

For the past few months, iron ore has been on a tear. It began to eke out gains as China, having emerged from the grip of COVID-19 in the middle of the year, attempted to fire up growth.
A line graph plots US dollars per tnne for iron ore, over a year. The line trends up from 90 in January to 156.5 in December



A graph showing the growth in iron ore prices.(Supplied: Trading Economics)

But if anyone is to blame for the sudden price hikes, it is China.

It's a simple supply-demand equation. China has ramped up steel production. And Brazil, the second-biggest supplier after Australia, has experienced serious problems that have curtailed supplies.

In addition, speculators, sniffing potential gains in a zero-interest rate world, have entered the fray and sent prices soaring.

Little wonder Beijing is angry. The cost of keeping its economy on a growth trajectory suddenly has escalated and exposed iron ore as its Achilles heel.

Australia supplies 65 per cent of all China's iron ore. We send far more iron ore to China than Brazil (the second-biggest supplier) produces in total. The only other potential supplier, the giant Simandou mine in Guinea, West Africa, has been mired in controversy, coups and corruption for more than a decade. It was supposed to be operational in 2015 but is only now under construction.

China needs iron ore. And for that, it needs Australia. It is a powerful card to have up our sleeve, although one any Australian government would be loath to play.
Is China's economy as strong as we're told?

It is the world's second-biggest economy. And for those who love to extrapolate, it is on track to overtake the United States as the dominant economy within the next few decades or so. It has a rapidly expanding military and is the dominant regional force.

Global power is shifting.
Have we hit peak China?
A windmill in the outback in front of clouds lit up red and orange by a sunset.

As trade and political tensions simmer, speculation swirls about what's really going on between the two nations  and what's next on a Chinese sanctions "hit list".
Read more

But China is not without its problems. Its phenomenal growth has been built on a debt binge, particularly during the past decade. And the real problem is corporate debt.

Late last month, a string of defaults amongst large government-owned corporations sent shockwaves through global debt markets, as government-linked firms previously had been considered safe.

State-run coal miner Yongcheng Coal and Electricity blamed tight liquidity for failing to meet its debt payments, while Tsinghua Unigroup, a top chipmaker and an auto manufacturer linked to BMW also defaulted.

That the Government allowed these defaults to take place has analysts divided. Some argue it demonstrates a new-found maturity, that Beijing no longer will tolerate corruption and will not rush to the aid of beleaguered state-owned enterprises. Others are not so sure, pointing to serious economic issues that had been exposed by the US trade war with Beijing.

Last year, authorities were forced to step in and take control of Baoshang Bank, the first such bail-out in more than two decades, indicating that all was not well within the financial system long before the pandemic took hold.
Where to now?

At a leadership level, the Australia-China breakdown now seems beyond repair. Australian leaders have been off the invitation list to the Bao Forum  China's annual economic gabfest on Hainan  for years. Chinese ministers refuse to return calls.

Almost every Australian export industry has found itself under attack and the ferocity is being lifted almost daily.

It will take years, perhaps decades, for our exporters to secure new markets. But it has been done before. When the United Kingdom aligned itself to Europe almost half a century ago, our exports gravitated towards the expanding markets of Asia and North America before finally settling on China.

For years, however, there have been warnings about our overreliance on one market, and the potential danger that posed in the event of either an economic or political meltdown.

That day has arrived. It's time for a Plan B.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-12-14/australia-has-to-look-beyond-china-as-relationship-breaks-down/12979900

----------


## Looper

*China's The Global Times appears to confirm a ban on Australian coal imports amid perilous trade tensions*

Chinese state media appears to have confirmed it has blocked Australian coal imports, further cementing perilous trade tensions between the two countries.



Key points:

    Chinese state-owned media outlet The Global Times appears to have confirmed a ban on Australian coal imports
    Australia's Trade Minister Simon Birmingham has called on Chinese authorities to "rule out" the Global Times report
    Australian coal exports to China were worth $13.9 billion last year

Beijing mouthpiece The Global Times is reporting that China's top economic planner has approved power plants to import coal without clearance restrictions "except for Australia".

Australian government sources say such media reports should be treated seriously because they are generally directly sanctioned by the Chinese Government.

There's a lot at stake for the Australian economy  coal exports to China were worth $13.9 billion last year.

Australia's Trade Minister Simon Birmingham has called on Chinese authorities to "rule out" the Global Times report.

Senator Birmingham said if the story is accurate it "would appear to be the use of discriminatory practices against Australian coal."

    "We reiterate that all terms of our free trade agreement and world trade obligations between Australia and China should be upheld and respected," he said.

The Global Times report quotes the director of the Institute of Energy and Economy at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, Wang Yongzhong, who warns "Australia is gradually losing the Chinese market".

He says China is sourcing coal from Indonesia, Russia and from Mongolia, which "could take a large share from Australian coal".

Kazakhstan is also referenced as an emerging exporter.

The article also says China's coal use will drop over coming decades as it moves to reduce carbon emissions.
Trade feud from coal to crayfish

In the wake of Australia's call for an independent inquiry into the origins of COVID-19, China has made increasingly provocative policy decisions to stymie Australian imports.
Have we hit peak China?
A windmill in the outback in front of clouds lit up red and orange by a sunset.

As trade and political tensions simmer, speculation swirls about what's really going on between the two nations  and what's next on a Chinese sanctions "hit list".
Read more

Australia's largest export market has applied prohibitive tariffs on the massive wine market, with signs the trade has now effectively ground to a halt.

Chinese tariffs on barley imports have also led to threats from Australia of action through the World Trade Organization.

But Beijing has accused Australia of dumping grain and wine on the Chinese market and unfairly subsidising farmers.

Tonnes of Australian rock lobster has also been stopped at Chinese ports.

The crayfish would usually sell at a premium on the Chinese market but have instead been sold to local supermarkets.

In some parts of Western Australia, western rock lobsters have been up for sale at the bargain price of just $20.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-12-14/global-times-reports-australian-coal-exports-blocked-by-china/12983336

----------


## tomcat

...I wonder if the time has come for Aussies to reciprocate with selective Chinese imports? A symbolic sting compared to the mainland bash, I know, but a little show of pride might be comforting while searching for other markets. Also, I'd recommend drastically reducing Aussie embassy/consulate staff and immediate (and quiet) repatriation of Aussie citizens: the Chinese are known to take hostages when they don't get what they want...

----------


## OhOh

> the Chinese are known to take hostages when they don't get what they want...


 :rofl: 

Hostage taking doesn't appear to a new thing. Been used for millennia and not just Asians.

----------


## tomcat

> Hostage taking doesn't appear to a new thing. Been used for millennia and not just Asians.


...irrelevant in this context...

----------


## Klondyke

> the Chinese are known to take hostages when they don't get what they want...


No need to take hostages. Who said: 




> 'We have to twist arms when countries don't do what we need them to'

----------


## helge

> I wonder if the time has come for Aussies to reciprocate with selective Chinese imports?


Could be

And the iron ore export sound like a good "argument".
But does the mining industry agree ? (are the current government owned by the miners ? )



> I'd recommend drastically reducing Aussie embassy/consulate staff and immediate (and quiet) repatriation of Aussie citizens


How many work in outsourced aussie companies ?

I can't help. I already drink my fair share of aussie red  :Smile:

----------


## Looper

> And the iron ore export sound like a good "argument".


Could be fun and games if Aussie looked at options for putting some pressure on China with iron ore price or volume. Iron ore is the life blood of the Chinese economic expansion.

These are the numbers for 2019.



And that was before Brazil's iron ore industry ran into major production problems in early 2020

Australia to continue to supply most of China’s iron ore despite trade tensions | S&P Global Market Intelligence

----------


## panama hat

> Hostage taking doesn't appear to a new thing. Been used for millennia and not just Asians.


Oh, the usual brain-fucked response from OhNo and Loondyke . . . who find it difficult to address and issue confronting us now as opposed to for 'millennia'.

Oddly enough the issue is the current situation and being a carte blanche apologist is why you're such a douche.






> How many work in outsourced aussie companies ?


A few are enough to evoke response

----------


## sabang

Iron ore prices are skyrocketing (the chinks are already squealing), and China is now paying a substantial premium for lesser grade coal from China and Mongolia- having stopped importing higher grade but cheaper aussie coal, for now. We're very good at digging big holes in Australia- be it our big mouthed politicians digging us into a diplomatic hole with China and costing us billions, or our world class miners.

Like I said earlier, it is a lose/ lose situation. Hopefully economic rationality will prevail going forward.

Ironically, due to strong demand from China and rocketing iron ore prices, overall Australian exports to China are hardly even impacted YoY. But that is cold comfort to our wine, lobster, barley and coal exporters.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Iron ore prices are skyrocketing (the chinks are already squealing), and China is now paying a substantial premium for lesser grade coal from China and Mongolia- having stopped importing higher grade but cheaper aussie coal, for now. We're very good at digging big holes in Australia- be it our big mouthed politicians digging us into a diplomatic hole with China and costing us billions, or our world class miners.
> 
> Like I said earlier, it is a lose/ lose situation. Hopefully economic rationality will prevail going forward.
> 
> Ironically, due to strong demand from China and rocketing iron ore prices, overall Australian exports to China are hardly even impacted YoY. But that is cold comfort to our wine, lobster, barley and coal exporters.


Coal is so 20th century.

Time to get rid.

----------


## baldrick

chin is building a gunboat port at Daru just off the northern tip of cape york

----------


## OhOh

2018 figures

Will Uncle Xi be bovvered?

----------


## panama hat

> Will Uncle Xi be bovvered?


Will he? No.  He couldn't give a shit about his people, nor anyone else . . . your little president for life

----------


## OhOh

> chin is building a gunboat port at Daru just off the northern tip of cape york


Have they colonised it yet:_

"The southern half of the country had been colonised in 1884 by the United Kingdom as British New Guinea. With the Papua Act 1905, the UK transferred this territory to the newly formed Commonwealth of Australia, which took on its administration. Additionally, from 1905, British New Guinea was renamed as the Territory of Papua.  In contrast to establishing an Australian mandate in former German New  Guinea, the League of Nations determined that Papua was an external  territory of the Australian Commonwealth; as a matter of law it remained  a British possession. The difference in legal status meant that until  1949, Papua and New Guinea had entirely separate administrations, both  controlled by Australia"
_
Independence achieved in 1975.
_
"The natives of Papua appealed to the United Nations for oversight and  independence. The nation established independence from Australia on 16  September 1975, becoming a Commonwealth realm, continuing to share Queen  Elizabeth II as its head of state."
_
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea#European_encounters
_
Lets hope any developments can produce a more vibrant, healthier, wealthy and content country after 91 years of failed western extractive colonialism.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Have they colonised it yet:_
> 
> "The southern half of the country had been colonised in 1884 by the United Kingdom as British New Guinea. With the Papua Act 1905, the UK transferred this territory to the newly formed Commonwealth of Australia, which took on its administration. Additionally, from 1905, British New Guinea was renamed as the Territory of Papua.  In contrast to establishing an Australian mandate in former German New  Guinea, the League of Nations determined that Papua was an external  territory of the Australian Commonwealth; as a matter of law it remained  a British possession. The difference in legal status meant that until  1949, Papua and New Guinea had entirely separate administrations, both  controlled by Australia"
> _
> Independence achieved in 1975.
> _
> "The natives of Papua appealed to the United Nations for oversight and  independence. The nation established independence from Australia on 16  September 1975, becoming a Commonwealth realm, continuing to share Queen  Elizabeth II as its head of state."
> _
> _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_New_Guinea#European_encounters
> ...


Good idea a bit of good ole chinese colonialism coming to a poor country near you. 
BTW how much aid has china given to PNG compared to those bad old colonial masters Australia?

----------


## Chico

China gave a lot more than the Aussies.

china 3 billion 

 Aussies 500 million

----------


## harrybarracuda

> China gave a lot more than the Aussies.
> 
> china 3 billion 
> 
>  Aussies 500 million



Get fucked, the chinkies are sucking PNG dry.




> The rapidly deteriorating state of Papua New Guinea’s economy is presenting serious challenges for the PNG government, which is already struggling to finance its 2020 budget.
> But another factor looms as an equal, if not more serious, challenge. At a time of fiscal vulnerability, PNG is getting entangled with Chinese debt—which will inevitably involve some difficult decisions for the Australian government down the line.
> A series of assessments of the state of the economy by banks and ratings agencies in recent weeks presents a very bleak picture. The PNG budget deficit is now projected to be over K7 billion (A$2.7 billion) in a total expenditure budget of K18 billion (A$7 billion). The PNG government hasn’t yet managed to fully finance the deficit, so it might even be higher than recent projections.
> At the same time, there are signs that PNG may be at risk of increasing indebtedness to China.
> The state enterprises minister, Sasindran Muthuvel, recently revealed that PNG owes China, principally through the Exim Bank of China, more than K1.6 billion (A$621 million) for communications projects alone—most of which have been carried out by Huawei. The government-owned communications company, Telikom PNG, is running up heavy operating losses which are linked to the projects Huawei has carried out. Its debts are reported to be more than K2 billion (A$777 million).
> The loans include almost K1 billion (A$388 million) for the Kumul submarine communications cable linking PNG’s major centres. The project has been widely criticised for neglecting to account for the impact of earthquakes and the cable suffered multiple breaks during a tremor in May last year.
> And despite all the promises about lower consumer charges and faster internet delivery, neither seems to have been delivered.
> In addition, the K200 million (A$75 million) Exim Bank loan for the PNG national data centre for work carried out by Huawei must also be added to the debt total. The centre is not only a potential security risk, but is virtually non-operational, causing the relevant minister to suggest PNG shouldn’t have to repay the loan.
> Then there’s the China-funded PNG national identity document project. It has stalled, with probably just one million of PNG’s eight million citizens having an identity card. Using the excuse of the Covid-19 pandemic, the PNG government has put the project on hold.
> ...


China’s ‘debt-trap diplomacy’ is about to challenge Papua New Guinea—and Australia | The Strategist

----------


## panama hat

> China gave a lot more than the Aussies.


Good Lord, first Skidmark tries to talk with adults and now chico . . . someone left the special school doors unlocked.


Ok, chico - sources, thanks.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Good Lord, first Skidmark tries to talk with adults and now chico . . . someone left the special school doors unlocked.
> 
> 
> Ok, chico - sources, thanks.


I think the saying is "Someone left the gate open at the c u n t farm".

----------


## Hugh Cow

> China gave a lot more than the Aussies.
> 
> china 3 billion 
> 
>  Aussies 500 million


I would like to see your reference where China "gave" 3 billion not loaned.

----------


## panama hat

> Ok, chico - sources, thanks.





> your reference



Yup . . .

----------


## diverken

Australia v China: Australian coal blocked indefinitely by Beijing | Stuff.co.nz

----------


## sabang

Foreign aid to the Pacific: an overview - Devpolicy Blog from the Development Policy Centre

----------


## panama hat

That'll hurt OhNo's feelings . . . and make chico feel out of place in an adult conversation.

----------


## Klondyke

> Foreign aid to the Pacific: an overview - Devpolicy Blog from the Development Policy Centre


Perhaps, it should have been mentioned what is written under the graph:





> What the comparison suggests is that China has become the third most important source of ODA to the region, with a total of US$1.78 billion provided as development assistance between 2006 and 2016. This indicates that, while certainly significant, China remains a long way from becoming the most important donor to the region (despite common statements to this effect).
> 
> Having said that, China is an especially important donor in a handful of countries. It has provided over 50 percent of total ODA to Fiji between 2006 and 2013 (making it the largest donor), and close to 30 percent of ODA in Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga and Vanuatu, where it has become the second main source of development funding. Much of this (approximately 80 percent) takes the form of concessional loans.
> 
> So, what can we conclude? Firstly, foreign aid to the region is not going away, nor is it becoming less important. Since the turn of the century, foreign aid as a percentage of gross national income has increased in almost half of all Pacific island economies – significantly so, in the case of Tuvalu, Kiribati and Solomon Islands. It has declined significantly in the case of the resource-rich economies of PNG and Timor-Leste (see our paper for data). Secondly, aid to the region has increased over the period – in line with the international scale-up in foreign aid – but not to the extent it has in other regions, or in developing countries as a whole. A third point to note is that foreign aid is distributed very unequally in the Pacific, with per capita aid to the poorest countries often quite limited. This is troubling from a poverty alleviation perspective. Lastly, our analysis shows that while China has become an important donor, it is far from the dominant player in the region – despite alarmist reporting to that effect.

----------


## panama hat

> Perhaps, it should have been mentioned


Perhaps you shouldn't fabricate a quote, fuckwit

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Foreign aid to the Pacific: an overview - Devpolicy Blog from the Development Policy Centre


Muppet.




> Foreign aid is defined as the voluntary transfer of resources from one country to another country. This transfer includes any flow of capital to developing countries. ... _Foreign aid can be in the form of a loan_ or a grant. _It may be in either a soft or hard loan._


And we know there is nothing "soft" about chinky "Debt Diplomacy".

----------


## Klondyke

> And we know there is nothing "soft" about chinky "Debt Diplomacy".


As opposed to "..aid" from (please no names here)...
(after all, I cannot disappoint the fan of mine)

----------


## Klondyke

> chinky


BTW, now, when there will be a new POTUS who is not so adversary to the "chinky" (in case that the certain connections and contributions are not just a "Russian disinformation"), hence, our "chinky" expert should change his rhetoric, shouldn't he?

----------


## harrybarracuda

Oh look, it's the puppy. Do you think him and HooHoo work opposite shifts?

----------


## panama hat

Do you think they have the mental capacity to co-ordinate?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Do you think they have the mental capacity to co-ordinate?


In the same way a dog has the capacity to chase a car.

----------


## OhOh

> A series of assessments of the state of the economy by *banks and ratings agencies* in recent weeks presents a very bleak picture. The PNG budget deficit is now projected to be over K7 billion (A$2.7 billion) in a total expenditure budget of K18 billion (A$7 billion). The PNG government hasn’t yet* managed to fully finance the deficit*, so it might even be higher than recent projections.
> At the same time, there are signs that* PNG may be at risk of increasing indebtedness* to China


Translated:

Some banks and agencies are reviewing PNG due to financing and politically motivated "legal" sanction application.

Possibly the Chinese banks will offer more palatable terms and conditions, which will decrease other banks profits, leading to obscurity for them.




> *Australia has rightly been working with* the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and other donor countries and agencies on a package that would essentially provide ‘structural adjustment support’ for PNG. But any such package would have tough conditions that might be unpalatable to PNG


On behalf of whom, OZ agencies or PNG citizens?

Some banks have decades long histories of screwing undeveloped countries.

https://www.columban.jp/upload_files...ic_Hit_Man.pdf




> The Australian government is likely to be watching the deteriorating economic and fiscal outlook in PNG *with growing alarm*.


Losing a vassal always means tears.




> Australia’s own budget deficit and national debt in light of the response to Covid-19 are eye-watering, making any decision to help PNG further *very difficult politically,* at least for the foreseeable future


When masta shouts jump, you jump boy.




> And we know there is nothing "soft" about chinky "Debt Diplomacy".


Firstly the graph is not PNG alone. Secondly the graph lacks a time scale, is it showing loans from say 1945, from when China started investing in Pacific countries or the last year when audited figures are available?

But enjoy your day discussing a useless graph.

----------


## panama hat

> But enjoy your day discussing a useless graph.


Useless because it doesn't come frm nor support your assertions.  

Try again, China-bot.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Translated:
> 
> Some banks and agencies are reviewing PNG due to financing and politically motivated "legal" sanction application.
> 
> Possibly the Chinese banks will offer more palatable terms and conditions, which will decrease other banks profits, leading to obscurity for them.


Translation: _Blah Blah Blah I have my fingers in my ears I can't hear you I have my nose up Mr. Shithole's shithole because I am a stupid chinky sycophant and I'll just post some more bollocks in the vain hope that people will believe me._

----------


## harrybarracuda

> But enjoy your day discussing a useless graph.


We already established that the graph is useless because it doesn't differentiate between gifts, soft loans and hard loans.

But we know from previous chinky form that the chinkies don't give anyway anything for free, there is always blackmail or bribery ahead and the consequences for the borrowing country are usually detrimental - with the exception of the "officials" that put their countries in the shit for personal gain.

----------


## panama hat

> with the exception of the "officials" that put their countries in the shit for personal gain.


Even President-for-Life is a billionaire . . . to which WahWah and Loondyke just respond with: 



> Blah Blah Blah I have my fingers in my ears I can't hear you

----------


## Hugh Cow

It appears Its not all beer and skittles in China after banning Australian coal, according to the below report. I was not able to confirm the whole story through another news service but by all reports it is producing problems for the locals with power cuts and restriction on air conditioning, as well as prolonging higher iron ore prices which are still above the forecast price and predicted to stay there much longer before a price fall. 
Canada has increased its coking coal exports to China in the last quarter of 2020 which helps to fill the gap left by Australian coal. Thank you so much for your help Canada. Solidarity brother!

China's trade war with Australia backfires as country is plagued my blackouts during cold winter | Daily Mail Online

----------


## tomcat

> Thank you so much for your help Canada. Solidarity brother!


...Canada had nothing to do with Australia miring itself in a trade trap with China...Aussie elected government officials should have seen the growing imbalances, trade distortions and possible threats long ago and acted. I suspect they were overcome by the promise of eternal prosperity and the expected avalanche of grateful votes from a newly enriched electorate...the Chinese should be thanked for providing a timely and challenging lesson in realpolitik...

----------


## pickel

> Thank you so much for your help Canada. Solidarity brother!


Hang in there, Trudeau will be gone soon. There are a lot of other countries that should have Australia's back in this fight as well though.

----------


## Backspin

Russian coal suppliers could boost their exports to China, as  the world’s largest coal buyer is reportedly curbing shipments of the  commodity from Australia amid escalating tensions between the two  countries.      

The developer of the  largest Russian coal deposit, Elga, announced on Tuesday that it created  a joint venture with a Chinese shipping company to promote Russian coal  on the massive Chinese market. The project between Elgaugol and  GH-Shipping is set to satisfy China’s growing demand for high-quality  coking coal.



_“The supplies of coking coal from Elga will replace a significant amount of Australian and American coal of similar quality,”_ Elgaugol Director-General Aleksandr Isaev said.
Another  Russian producer, Mechel, previously said that it was planning to  increase exports of coal to China amid Beijing’s restrictions on  Australian imports. In November, the shipments rose by 13 percent, and  are set to jump by 25-30 percent in December, Mechel CEO Oleg Korzhov  said as cited by Russian media.


Tensions between the two countries  have been growing for around three years, after the Australian  government began limiting Chinese investments in the country. In 2018,  Canberra added fuel to the fire when it banned China’s Huawei and ZTE  from its 5G rollout. The most recent escalation occurred when Australia  pushed in April for an international inquiry into the origins of the  coronavirus outbreak.

----------


## panama hat

> The most recent escalation occurred when Australia pushed in April for an international inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus outbreak.


Egads, how dare they!!!!!  


Hang on . . . China has done several 'inquiries' as well . . . and blamed India, Italy, the US etc...  

Bunch of fucking wankers . . . is that why you identify, Skidmark?

----------


## Looper

*China's power supply is struggling as winter temperatures plunge. Is the ban on Australian coal to blame?*

In China, the prospect of resource scarcity is largely thought to be a thing of the past.
Key points:

    Millions of people in central and eastern China have had power outages
    Authorities say this is party due to unseasonably cold weather and coal shortages
    This comes as China has significantly restricted Australian coal imports

But this month, power outages have returned to some parts of the country, conjuring memories of China's old command economy, where resource rationing was a part of daily life.

Chinese social media has seen tens of thousands of posts complaining about the new electricity restrictions in the country's central and eastern provinces of Hunan and Zhejiang, which have been viewed more than 150 million times on the platform Weibo.

News of the restrictions comes amid a burgeoning trade spat between Australia and China, in which Australian coal appears to have effectively been barred from Chinese ports.

By November, more than 60 vessels carrying Australian thermal coal were held up in Chinese waters because they weren't able to offload their cargo, according to Bloomberg shipping analysis data.

So do China's recent energy woes have anything to do with its sanctions on Australia, or is it just an awkward coincidence?
What's happened?
You view a grainy mobile image of a high-rises with no lights at night, with only one light source on the horizon.
Changsha, in Zhejiang province, suffered blackouts as a result of China's energy crunch this month.(Weibo)

Residents of Hunan and Zhejiang have been issued notices stipulating the "orderly use of electricity", along with other power restrictions that haven't been seen for a long time, according to local media reports.

The restrictions have come during a particularly cold Chinese winter, where millions of people have switched on energy-intensive heating to cope with sub-zero temperatures.

Temperatures in Zhejiang plummet around this time of year, with daily average lows of 3 degrees Celsius in December  in January, the mercury usually doesn't rise above 8 degrees.

According to China's state-owned broadcaster CCTV, lights and lifts in some office buildings were shut off in a several cities across Hunan and Zhejiang.

The power outages forced some office workers in Hunan's city of Changsha to climb 20 to 30 flights of stairs, according to a report in the local news publication iFeng.

Social media users in the city of Yiwu in Zhejiang made similar complaints.

    "The office room is freezing cold after the aircon is turned off  Now the lift is shut off," one resident wrote on Weibo.

"[Climbing stairs] almost killed me this morning."

Changsha residents have also been advised against using energy-intensive appliances such as electric stoves and ovens, and not to set air conditioners above 20 degrees.

The ABC has also seen an online notice to a middle school in Zhejiang, banning staff and students from turning on heating if temperatures exceeded 3 degrees.
Do we know what's causing the power pinch?
You view large transmission power lines with a snowy hill of wind turbines on the horizon on an overcast day.
A Hunan energy spokesperson says China's freezing temperatures are limiting wind energy production.(Reuters: Jason Lee)

In Hunan, authorities said the province of more than 67 million people had reached the electricity grid's maximum load, with a predicted gap of 3 million to 4 million kilowatts of energy during winter's peak period, according to local media.

"This year's situation is quite special. One is that winter comes earlier and the weather is relatively cold," a spokesperson for Changsha's Development and Reform Commission told China's Cover News this week.

    "Then our coal supply in Hunan Province is also insufficient. For various reasons, the power supply is now relatively tight." 

This was again stated by a spokesperson for the Changsha Power Supply Company, who said Hunan's power pinch was partly due to the cold, and partly due to a drop in energy production capacity.

Wu Donglin said the latter comprised of "the reduction of coal burning, the decline of reservoir water levels, and the inability of wind power to generate electricity" because of freezing temperatures.
The threat from within

China has pledged to become carbon-neutral by 2060, responding to the need to drastically bring down its overwhelming share of global carbon emissions. Experts say it's also critical for the communist party's survival.
Read more

Mr Wu's comments came after an editorial published in the state-owned Global Times tabloid claimed Beijing was preparing to let power producers import coal from several countries without restrictions, "except for Australia".

China's coal imports on the whole have been on a downward trajectory according to official Government statistics  in other words, it's not just Australian coal that has been having trouble entering China's market.

"In November, 11.67 million tonnes of coal were imported, a decrease of 2.06 million tonnes from the previous month, and a year-on-year decrease of 43.8 per cent," a statement from the National Bureau of Statistics read on Tuesday.

"From January to November, 260 million tonnes of coal were imported, a year-on-year decrease of 10.8 per cent."

While coal makes up the lion's share of China's energy mix, it has been on a minor downward trajectory in recent years as Beijing begins a transition to clean energy.
So is the ban on Australian coal to blame?

Shane Oliver, AMP Capital's chief economist, told the ABC it was quite possible that the power cuts had a link to the coal ban, but that it was impossible to know for sure.

"The disruption to the supply of coal into China as a result of the bans on Australia may also be playing a role in that and causing rationing," he said.

"It is quite normal to have cold winters at this time of the year in China, so one would assume that's been allowed for."
Have we hit peak China?
A windmill in the outback in front of clouds lit up red and orange by a sunset.

As trade and political tensions simmer, speculation swirls about what's really going on between the two nations  and what's next on a Chinese sanctions "hit list".
Read more

However he said it was premature to assume China's trade tactics against Australia had backfired.

    "I think all countries which engage in trade wars tend to pay some price for it," Dr Oliver said.

"Trade wars are not desirable, they do result in both sides losing: obviously one side loses because they don't get the supply and quality of supply that they're used to, the other side loses because they lose an export market."

Jun Mao, a thermal coal analyst at Jiangsu Jinying Capital Management, told the ABC the power shortages were a sign of supply and demand issues in China.

"China's thermal coal stocks are insufficient and the price is relatively high. But it hasn't been completely out of control," he said.

"The Chinese Government is already coordinating, and I think the problem will be resolved soon."
Coal is loaded onto ships.
One Chinese media personality said it was "nonsense" to connect the shortages to Beijing's Australia policy.(ABC Newcastle: Anthony Scully)

Mr Mao said he believed the power shortages had "some connection" to China's ban on Australian thermal coal, but that it was "not the main reason".

"It is also related to some domestic factors, which have impacted on the shortage of thermal coal," he said.

Hu Xijin, editor of the Global Times, wrote on social media that it was "nonsense" to link China's power shortage to the ban on Australian coal.

He said the ban had a "subtle impact" on China's electricity supply, because "the coal imported from Australia is mainly coking coal and China has rich resources of thermal coal".

    "The claim that the Australia policy hurts ourselves is a malicious fabrication by foreign forces and some people in our country," Mr Hu wrote.

How much energy does China use?
A shot of an active coal-fired power station near a residential area in China.
Coal continues to be the mainstay of China's energy mix, despite pledging to become carbon neutral by 2060.(ABC News: Brant Cumming)

To understand China's energy consumption, you have to understand that it's a paradox.

While the country is the largest consumer and investor in renewable energy, it is also by far the largest consumer of coal on the planet.

This makes it the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gases, while also being a renewables superpower committed to being carbon neutral by 2060.



But coal is still largely responsible for keeping the lights on across China, where energy consumption has skyrocketed in recent years.

Data from the International Energy Agency showed that in 2018, China consumed more than 6,800 terawatt hours of energy, which eclipsed the total energy consumption for all of North America in that year.

On Wednesday, a spokesperson for China's National Development and Reform Commission said China's year-on-year electricity consumption increased by 9.4 per cent last month.
How much Australian coal has China sanctioned?

China isn't dependent on Australian coal for its energy  that being said, Australian coal has been a part of China's energy mix for several decades now.

Australian coal exports comprise two varieties: thermal coal, which is burnt for electricity, and metallurgical coal, which is used for making steel and iron ore.

Last year, 18 per cent of all Australian thermal coal exports were sent to China, with a value of $4 billion, while total coal exports were worth $13.7 billion.
A reclaimer places coal in stockpiles at the coal port in Newcastle, Australia
Coal is one of many Australian exports that have been subject to Chinese sanctions.(Reuters: Daniel Munoz)

The slowdown in Australian coal exports to China began to emerge in September, with ships carrying Australian coal barred from offloading their cargo at Chinese ports.

This month, no ships carrying thermal coal from Newcastle  Australia's busiest coal port  have left for China, and none are scheduled to leave before Christmas.
Ground to a halt

Normally one in five coal ships leaving the Port of Newcastle are bound for China. The latest shipping schedule reveals that number is now zero.
Read more

As this trade appears to have been effectively cut off by China, it joins an ever-growing list of Chinese sanctions against Australian imports amid a worsening geopolitical stoush.

Beijing laid some of its issues with Canberra officially in November, delivering a list of 14 "grievances" that noted Australia's "anti-China" government-funded research at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), "interference" in China's internal affairs regarding Hong Kong, Taiwan and Xinjiang, and ban of Huawei from the construction of Australia's 5G network.

Alongside trade, Australian diplomats and ministers have had their contacts with Chinese officials frozen, and Australian calls for a dialogue with China have been left unanswered. 

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2020-12-18/china-electricity-power-shortage-hunan-zhejiang-australia-coal/12993418

----------


## tomcat

> Alongside trade, Australian diplomats and ministers have had their contacts with Chinese officials frozen, and Australian calls for a dialogue with China have been left unanswered.


...good: the ball to unfreeze is in China's court...better to leave things that way rather than give China the satisfaction of seeing Aussie politicians publicly moan and fret about lost business...also better to look for new markets to develop to cushion the loss...bullying should never be met with appeasement...

----------


## panama hat

> ...good: the ball to unfreeze is in China's court...better to leave things that way rather than give China the satisfaction of seeing Aussie politicians publicly moan and fret about lost business...also better to look for new markets to develop to cushion the loss...bullying should never be met with appeasement...


Agreed.  It's all about 'face'. 








> China's power supply is struggling as winter temperatures plunge. Is the ban on Australian coal to blame?


They'd never admit it though unless by lying through their teeth that bad Australia had raised the price or similar, therefore harming the hard-working and innocent people of China - never again will Chia be subjugated by the nasty western powers etc etc etc etc

----------


## Looper

*Chinese investment in Australia plummets 61%*

Chinese investment in Australia plummeted 61% in 2020, the lowest number in six years.

The drop in investment comes amid a growing diplomatic rift between the two countries.


The Australian National University's Chinese Investment in Australia Database (CHIIA) recorded just over $780m (A$1bn ; £550m) in investment.

Only 20 Chinese investments were recorded in 2020, well below the 2016 peak of 111.

Last year's decline came on top of a 47% drop from 2019, when Chinese investment totalled $1.57bn.

    Who is the Australian TV anchor detained by China?
    Brits snap up Australian wine not going to China
    Australia to 'call in the umpire' on China trade hit

Dr Shiro Armstrong, director of the East Asian Bureau of Economic Research, where CHIIA is based, said the decline in Chinese investment in Australia outpaced falling global foreign investment last year.

"Foreign direct investment fell globally by 42% according to the United Nations (UN)," Dr Armstrong said in a media release. "UN data is measured differently, but the fall in Chinese investment to Australia was much larger."

Chinese companies have invested across all sectors of Australia's economy in recent years, but last year they only bought into the real estate ($357m), mining ($321m) and manufacturing ($119m) sectors.

The drop is at least partly due to Australia's investment settings during the Covid-19 pandemic.

The government announced temporary measures in March that would subject every proposed investment to scrutiny by Australia's Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB).

Previously, a review only applied for "non-sensitive" transactions if the investment was worth $930m, or $213m for investors from countries without a free trade agreement with Australia.

The aim was to prevent a fire sale of distressed Australian assets to foreign owners, but it also delayed investments as the FIRB dealt with a backlog, blowing out the review period from 30 days to six months.

The Australian government also announced additional reforms to its foreign investment laws in July, which added a national security test and allowed the treasurer to cancel deals retrospectively.

In August, the Treasurer Josh Frydenberg stopped the $600m sale of Japanese beverage giant Kirin's wholly-owned Australian subsidiary Lion Dairy and Drinks to China Mengniu Dairy.
Trade tensions

The latest figures come against a backdrop of increased diplomatic tensions tensions between Australia and China.

Trade ties have been particularly strained since Australia first called for a rigorous investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic in April.

Chinese investment in Australia plummets 61% - BBC News

----------


## Looper

*Chinese diplomat Wang Xining claims being a friend of China is seen as a 'sin' in Australia, hits out at Australian media reporting*

China's most high-profile diplomat in Australia has declared that those who are friendly to China will be cherished by their grandchildren, while those who "choose to make enemies" with Beijing will be "cast aside by history".


Key points:

    Wang Xining portrayed China as a victim of biased Australian media reporting
    Mr Wang is the deputy head of the Chinese embassy in Australia
    In his speech, he also claimed an Australian WHO investigator was misquoted in media reporting

Deputy Head of Mission Wang Xining's comments were made in a recent speech to the Australia China Business Council in Canberra and were published this week.

He sought to portray China as a victim of biased Australian media reporting and "ridiculous suspicions" about China being a threat.

"[If] people are immersed by those negative portraits of China by the major media outlets and brainwashed by the vulgarised and simplified political slogans, how would they understand China?" Mr Wang asked his audience, according to a copy of the speech published on the Chinese embassy's website.

    "It seems that being friendly to China, to be a friend of China, becomes a sin and mistake in Australia.

"History will prove that it is wise and visionary to be China's friends, and your children and grandchildren would be proud of you."

Mr Wang went on to tell the audience that those who "deliberately vilify China and sabotage the friendship … out of their sectoral or selfish interest will be cast aside in history".
Wang Xining in a dining room, framed by other people.
Wang Xining said it was becoming "really difficult to be China's friend in Australia".(

ABC News: Nick Haggarty)
'So pitiful' about WHO investigator

The speech is the first major address by a Chinese embassy representative in Australia this year and comes after 12 months of deteriorating diplomatic ties.

"This is sophisticated, albeit thinly veiled, CCP propaganda," Jeffrey Wilson from the USAsia Centre in Perth told the ABC.

"By arguing there are 'friends' and 'enemies' of China within Australia, the speech deliberately attempts to stoke societal divisions.

"It's really an extraordinary speech. I cannot think of a PRC diplomat ever giving something so nakedly 'splittist' before, anywhere."

Mr Wang did not specifically touch on many of the fraught issues with Australia, such as China's trade strikes on at least seven different types of Australian exports or the federal government's blocking of some Chinese investment on national security grounds.

He also did not mention the prolonged detention of two Australian nationals for state security investigations in Beijing, or specifically raise the Australian government's call for an independent inquiry into the origins of coronavirus, which previously prompted diplomatic anger from Beijing.

But he did touch on the media coverage of the WHO investigation to Wuhan last month, saying he felt "so pitiful" for Dominic Dwyer, the only Australian member of the international expert term, claiming he was misquoted in media reporting.

Mr Wang incorrectly claimed a first-hand piece written by Dr Dwyer for The Conversation was only reported in the Guardian — the ABC also published the piece — while he also questioned why "so few people believed" the claims of China-based British-Australian former policeman Jerry Grey.

Mr Grey has been prominently featured in multiple state media reports for echoing Chinese government talking points and claiming he could not see evidence of mass internment centres for ethnic minority Uyghurs during bicycle rides through the far-western region.

Despite criticising media coverage, Mr Wang also did not mention the Chinese government's targeting of Australian journalists for national security investigations last year in response to ASIO raids on Chinese state reporters in Sydney.

https://www.abc .net.au/news/2021-03-02/wang-xining-hits-out-at-australian-media-in-speech/13208232


Mr Wang looks a bit like a Bond villain.

He should bring a bowler hat to these conferences and throw it boomerang style at rude Australian journalists that hurt the Chinese national feelings

----------


## bsnub

> Chinese investment in Australia plummeted 61% in 2020, the lowest number in six years.


That is a good thing.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Exactly, it usually comes at a price.

----------


## panama hat

'Investment' isn't necessarily a good thing as it also includes purchases of farms, factories, mineral rights etc... Industries that are viable and running and - therefore - of interest.

----------


## sabang

^ That's what the Yellow shirts said.


*Chinese Australians discriminated against as Canberra-Beijing tensions boil over: Lowy report*


Almost one in five Chinese Australians say they have been physically threatened or attacked in the past year, with most blaming tensions stemming from the COVID-19 pandemic or hostility between Canberra and Beijing.
*Key points:*


Many Chinese Australians told Lowy that prior to 2020 they felt Australian society becoming more welcomingChinese Australians are more trusting positive towards the Chinese government than other AustraliansAlmost half of those polled said they were concerned about the Chinese government's influence on Australian politics

Around one in three community members also say they have faced verbal abuse or discriminatory treatment.
But almost 70 per cent of Chinese Australians still say they feel accepted by Australian society, with almost eight in 10 saying Australia is a good place to live.
The findings are part of a wide-ranging new survey of the Australian Chinese community conducted by the foreign affairs think tank the Lowy Institute.
One of the authors of the survey, Natasha Kassam,said the survey showed how ordinary Chinese Australians had been hit by mounting political tensions and resentments.
"As that broader Australian debate around China has shifted over the past year, particularly in relation to foreign interference and economic coercion, it does seem Chinese Australians have borne the brunt," she said.






The results are particularly stark because many Chinese Australians told Lowy that before 2020, they felt Australian society was gradually become more welcoming to them.
"They really do attribute this shift over the past year to the bilateral relationship and to the COVID-19 pandemic," Ms Kassam said.

"Before that the trajectory they report is a positive one."
Sydney mother Ping Hua, who's lived in Australia for five-and-a-half years, tells a similar story.
Ms Hua said she feels "lucky" to be in Australia.
When she had a serious car accident while living in Canberra she was impressed by the care she received in hospital, and from health workers sent to her home.
She was also delighted by the way her neighbours and other members of her local community rallied to support her while she slowly recovered.




"They showed me support, they helped me to get involved in local community hobby groups  they understood I must have been bored, staying [at home] alone with crutches and a wheelchair," she said.
"I realised that if this happened back in China in my hometown, I would probably need to hire more people for extra help, or need extra help from other family members."
But Ms Hua said mounting bilateral hostilities between Australia and China had created tensions within the Chinese diaspora, as well as between Chinese Australians and the broader community.

"I cannot avoid it anymore. Politics became my daily life. It's like, which side are you on? The Australian government side? The Chinese government side?" she said.

"I feel  even as a stay home at home mom, I have to be careful.
"And I have no side! Oh my gosh, why do I have to take any side?"



*Australian media reporting on China 'too negative': survey*

The poll of more than 1,000 community members paints a complex picture of the experiences of Chinese Australians and their views towards Australia, China, democracy and contemporary geopolitics.
In general, Chinese Australians are markedly more trusting positive towards China and the Chinese Government than other Australians.
But Ms Kassamsaid there were still a wide range of views  and stark disagreements  within the community.
For example, the Chinese Australian community is evenly split on the fraught question of foreign interference.



Forty-six per cent of Chinese Australians were concerned about Beijing's influence, compared to 82 per cent of the Australian population.(ABC News: Jarrod Fankhauser)

Almost half (46 per cent) of those polled said they were concerned about the Chinese government's influence on Australian politics.
But an almost identical number of people said Australian media outlets and politicians paid too much attention to foreign interference.
Half of those surveyed also said that Australian media reporting on China was "too negative."


Ms Hua said she used to resent media reports criticising China before slowly realising that Australian outlets were also deeply critical of their own government's failings.
But she still feels like Australian politicians and media organisations have focussed too heavily on aggressive statements from the Chinse government.

"I do think it is too much recently. I feel like they use it as a weapon too much," she said.

*A complex mix of views towards policy*

The Lowy poll also revealed Chinese Australians have greater trust in China's government than most Australians.
More than 70 per vent of those surveyed said they had at least some trust that China would "act responsibly in the world".
In contrast, less than one in four people in the broader Australian community shared that trust.
The Chinese-Australians polled were also much more open to Australian cooperation with China.




Half of Chinese Australians polled said they "somewhat" trust China to act responsibly in the world.(ABC News: Jarrod Fankhauser)

Sixty-five per cent of those surveyed indicated they disagreed with the Federal Government's decision to ban Chinese telco Huawei from the national broadband network, saying Australia should allow Chinese firms to provide technology for critical infrastructure.
Seventy per cent said Australia should co-operate with China to roll out aid projects in the Asia-Pacific.
But Ms Kassam said many Chinese Australians also said the federal government should hedge and put some limitson cooperation with Beijing.
For example, 49 per cent of those polled said the Australian Government should restrict scientific research with China in defence and security fields.
Sixty-five per cent said Australia should look for other markets to reduce its economic dependence on China, while 67 per cent said the government should sanction Chinese officials responsible for human rights abuses.


"There is a real complexity of views there. There's more positivity to China on the one hand, but a high level of concern about human rights and economic dependence and coercion on the other," Ms Kassam said.
Chinese Australians also have far more mixed views on democracy than most other Australians.
Just over one third of those surveyed said democracy was preferable to any other system of government, compared to around 70 per cent of the broader Australian population.
Forty-one per cent said that a non-democratic government can be preferable in some circumstances.



Just over one third of Chinese Australians surveyed said democracy was preferable to any other system of government.(ABC News: Jarrod Fankhauser
)Ms Kassam said Beijing's track record dealing effectively with the COVID-19 might have cemented that view in parts of the Chinese Australian community.
Forty-three per cent of those surveyed view China's system of governance more favourably in the wake of the pandemic.

"The past year has seen a really interesting debate emerge over whether authoritarian or democratic systems are better equipped to handle the pandemic," she said.

"I think the failures of the United States and democratic backsliding around the world have not helped Australia's cause."
The survey also confirms that Chinese-Australians remain heavily dependent on WeChat and Chinese media outlets for news.
Eighty-four per cent of the people surveyed used WeChat for Chinese-language news, while 74 per cent read mainland news outlets, including state media sources like Xinhua.

Chinese Australians discriminated against as Canberra-Beijing tensions boil over: Lowy report - ABC News

----------


## panama hat

Thank you for your OhNo-Klondyle-esque cnp.

Basically, the article shows that the CCP's heavy-handed approach has turned a few Australians into anti-Chinese bigots.

No surprise there

Will your next cnp be about the CCP's embassy staffers threatening those who don't toe the party line, mainly HKers and also PRCers?  How the CCP and its representatives threaten educational institutions and their staff about writing or commenting on issues criticising China?

Its not whatabout-ism like your mates love doing, it's simple cause and effect

----------


## sabang

> _Basically, the article shows that the Murdoch papers heavy-handed and bigoted approach has turned a few Australians into anti-Chinese bigots_.


Ftfy.




> Thank you for your Looper-esque cnp.


Ditto.


You really need to address your unhealthy obsession with everything Klondyke, PH. Everything ok?

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Iron ore prices are skyrocketing (the chinks are already squealing), and China is now paying a substantial premium for lesser grade coal from China and Mongolia- having stopped importing higher grade but cheaper aussie coal, for now. We're very good at digging big holes in Australia- be it our big mouthed politicians digging us into a diplomatic hole with China and costing us billions, or our world class miners.
> 
> Like I said earlier, it is a lose/ lose situation. Hopefully economic rationality will prevail going forward.
> 
> Ironically, due to strong demand from China and rocketing iron ore prices, overall Australian exports to China are hardly even impacted YoY. But that is cold comfort to our wine, lobster, barley and coal exporters.


You appear to suggest from your posts on this issue that Australia is at fault and should just acquiesce to China for the sake of trade. While practically it makes some sort of sense, morally it is a repugnant idea. The government and business has been warned over many years not to be over reliant on exports to China which have been ignored in the greedy pursuit of profit and tax revenue . The Chinese have proven themselves to be totally untrustworthy and have broken the free trade agreement with spurious unproven claims and plain lies. 
To say that Australia's premium priced wine is being dumped in China when there are many countries that export wine at much lower prices to China shows how weak that statement is apart from it being an obvious outright lie with no evidence. 
Maybe we should tell them we are unable to export iron ore without wine, Barley and Timber as it is uneconomical. No more fanciful than the lies from China. We must diversify away from China and in the short term buy only what cannot be sourced elsewhere. This wont hurt China which is proving to be a bad neighbour around South East Asia, but the least reliant we are the better.

----------


## Wakey

The only thing making China powerful is the US and EU trade deficits. Eliminate those and China will be in the red. 

Country / Region
Total trade
Exports
Imports
Trade
balance


Total
4,107.1
2,263.3
1,843.7
419.6

1
 United States
583.3
429.7
153.9
275.8

2
 European Union
573.08
375.1
197.9
177.1

3
 Japan
303.0
137.2
165.8
-28.6

4
 Hong Kong
286.5
279.2
73.1
206.1

5
 South Korea
280.2
102.7
177.5
-74.8

6
 Taiwan
199.9
43.9
155.9
-112

7
 Australia
136.4
41.4
95.0
-53.6

8
 Vietnam
121.9
71.6
50.3
21.3

9
 Malaysia
96.1
41.7
54.4
-12.7

10
 Brazil
87
28.9
58.8
-29.9

----------


## panama hat

> Ftfy.


Except that's not how it works as you didn't 'fix' anything, rather avoided discussing the issue





> This wont hurt China which is proving to be a bad neighbour around South East Asia, but the least reliant we are the better.


Absolutely . . . but oddly enough exports to China have increased . . . deceitful fuckers

----------


## sabang

Australia is not the Dep'ty Sheriff. China and the US are both valuable to us, in different ways. And they both have their problems too- neither seems to me a good role model for modern Australia.

----------


## panama hat

> Australia is not the Dep'ty Sheriff.


Nor is it trying to be . . . nor is it a dishrag for China

----------


## sabang

Or a toerag for the USA. Australia should pursue it's own policies, and as far as possible maintain friendly relations with both countries.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Or a toerag for the USA. Australia should pursue it's own policies, and as far as possible maintain friendly relations with both countries.


"as far as possible", which to you presumably means caving every time the chinkies do something outrageous.

----------


## OhOh

> The only thing making China powerful is the US and EU trade deficits


where is your data from?

this is.. 2019

Attachment 65318
.....

.
China Exports By Country........

----------


## panama hat

> Or a toerag for the USA.


Just because several policies are similar to another country's doesn't make it a toerag - but that logic seems to escape you

----------


## sabang

Oh, so Our policy was to invade Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Interesting.

----------


## panama hat

Did, so it was.  Logical. 

But then you do realise that's a gross over-simplification . . . and Vietnam - clusterfuck everyone should have stayed out of.  Why do you think en gros about everything?

----------


## sabang

Because it was not our policy, at all- and neither did we 'approve' of the bloody slaughter in Iraq and Afghanistan, at all (I should know). VN a bit more complex- those were the days of Domino theory. We just dutifully tagged along, and participated in the utterly pointless murder of foreign people, in various ghastly ways. 

I sincerely hope those days are over, and the substantial counterweight provided by our essential trade relationship with China will prove a useful foil in this regard. But we too have innocent blood on our hands. 

At least the Chinese do not bomb other people, invade other countries, sponsor bloody conflicts, and constantly plot to overthrow foreign governments by any foul means. And they certainly do not ask us to participate in slaughter.

----------


## panama hat

> At least the Chinese do not bomb other people, invade other countries, sponsor bloody conflicts, and constantly plot to overthrow foreign governments by any foul means.


Yea . . . you weren't too far off in your first paragraph but this one above just shows that you're a one-eyed fool

----------


## sabang

Ah good, now PH is reduced to a buffoonish parody, how easily. Kindly give some examples, in the current century, of:-


Foreign countries that china has invadedForeign countries that china has bombedForeign governments that china has tried to topple illegally- eg via coup, revolution, or invasionForeign countries that have been asked by china to join their military in invading other &/or bombing other countriesBonus points for a quantitative comparison of the number of human beings killed by chinese vs american miltary action, either direct or sponsoredFurther bonus points for a quantitative comparison on the number of humans murdered by australian military forces at the behest of china vs america


Over to you einstein.  ::chitown::

----------


## Latindancer

Chinkies just do it in a sneaky way.

I wonder how many lives were lost and screwed up in Tibet ? I'd say that every Tibetan there has been negatively impacted.

----------


## sabang

> I'd say that every Tibetan there has been negatively impacted.


Then you would be wrong actually. China has been throwing money at the place, indeed a high speed rail line was opened a couple of years ago. Several Tibetans are doing very well thank you, and have no wish to secede or gain more autonomy from China. Even the Dalai Lama has ceased calling for Tibetan independence- rather more autonomy within the PRC. Others no doubt are ardently opposed to Chinese rule. The poorest Tibetans are to be found in the Mustang region of Nepal, not Tibet SAR. Things are never as black and white as is painted to you by propaganda.

----------


## Latindancer

The high speed rail line is probably to bring in masses of Han Chinese tourists. Indeed, why else, apart from one-way travel by Han Chinese being brought in to populate the place and skew the population ratio in their favour. ?

The Dalai Lama has been slowly worn down and is being less vocal about independence as it riles the Chinese too much. Autonomy is more realistic.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Several Tibetans are doing very well thank you


And there we have it, sabang's justification for cultural genocide is that "several Tibetans are doing very well". 

I think the Vichy did very well for a while, too.

----------


## OhOh

> is probably to bring in masses of Han Chinese tourists. Indeed, why else, apart from one-way travel by Han Chinese being brought


You may wish to consider unless a producer can deliver their goods/service to a market, they cannot sell their goods/service. 

Hence a need to provide road, rail, air, communications, schools, hospitals, clean water ....

You may have had such things since you were born. I did.

But some around the world, even today, are still waiting.




> "several Tibetans are doing very well".


*Tibet's GDP grows by 191 times from 1959 to 2018: white paper*

                 2019-03-27 10:54:42Xinhua Editor  : Mo Hong'e ECNS App Download 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Tibet's 2018 GDP reached  147.76 billion yuan (22 billion U.S. dollars), about 191 times more than  the 1959 figure calculated at comparable prices, said a white paper  released Wednesday by China's State Council Information Office.

Through 60 years of hard work, the people in Tibet have seen  agriculture and animal husbandry become increasingly modernized, said  the white paper, titled "Democratic Reform in Tibet -- Sixty Years On."

The added value of agriculture, forestry, animal husbandry, fisheries  and related service industries rose from 128 million yuan in 1959 to  13.41 billion yuan in 2018. Grain yield increased from 182,900 tonnes in  1959 to more than 1 million tonnes in 2018, it said.

Tibet's modern industry started from scratch and has grown steadily,  the white paper said, adding that Tibet's industrial added value  increased from 15 million yuan in 1959 to 11.45 billion yuan in 2018.

Tibet has accomplished a fundamental change and optimization in  economic structure, the white paper said, noting that the share of added  value from primary industry in GDP dropped from 73.6 percent in 1959 to  8.8 percent in 2018, while the share of secondary industry rose to 42.5  percent and the share of tertiary industry increased to 48.7 percent.

The tertiary industry in Tibet is thriving and tourism is developing  rapidly, the white paper said, noting that in 2018, Tibet received 33.69  million tourist visits, with a total tourism revenue of 49 billion  yuan.

More than 100,000 farmers and herdsmen have earned more through  tourism and Tibet has become an international tourist destination, it  said.

Infrastructure has been improved in Tibet, as a comprehensive  transportation network composed of highways, railways and air routes has  been formed, it added.

Tibet's GDP grows by 191 times from 1959 to 2018: white paper

----------


## harrybarracuda

1966 – Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution reaches Tibet and results in the destruction of a large number of monasteries and cultural artefacts. A sociopolitical movement set into motion by Mao Zedong, the Cultural Revolution’s stated goal was to preserve communist ideology in the country by purging remnants of capitalist and traditional elements and to re-impose Maoist thought as the dominant ideology. The movement paralysed China politically and negatively affected the country’s economy and society to a significant degree. This “most severe setback and the heaviest losses suffered by the Party, the country, and the people since the founding of the People’s Republic” particularly affected Tibet, where resentment against the Chinese remained high. The years of the Cultural Revolution inflict heavy casualties on Tibet. During these 10 years, 1.2 million Tibetans are worked, starved or beaten to death. Parents were forced to bury their children alive for any act of disobedience, dissidents were doused in excrement and urine and set alight or had their nose or an ear cut off. The Cultural Revolution was one of the bloodiest chapters in world history, let alone Chinese history, and cemented a bloodstained divide between the Tibetan people and the Chinese.

What Is The Conflict Between Tibet & China? Know About It

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## panama hat

> During these 10 years, 1.2 million Tibetans are worked, starved or beaten to death. Parents were forced to bury their children alive for any act of disobedience, dissidents were doused in excrement and urine and set alight or had their nose or an ear cut off.


Luckily, according to sabang, some lived well.

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## harrybarracuda

> Luckily, according to sabang, some lived well.


Several in fact. Puts that paltry genocide into perspective, doesn't it?

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## Klondyke

> 1966 – Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution reaches Tibet and results in the destruction of a large number of monasteries and cultural artefacts.


This article is more than 12 years old  
(nowadays, The Guardian would hardly issue it - but it does not change anything on the facts)
*
What we don't hear about Tibet*
Sorrel Neuss

While the world moralises over China's occupation, feudalism and abuse in Tibetan culture has been conveniently forgotten
Wed 11 Feb 2009 22.00 GMT

Sexual abuse in monasteries and oppressive feudalism in traditional Tibetan society has been factored out of the argument against China's occupation, oversimplifying it.

Han Chinese guards deliberately obstruct the pilgrim route through Lhasa to the holy Jokhang temple by sipping tea at strategically placed tables in the middle of the road. In front of the Potala, the Dalai Lama's former seat of power, an imposing guarded concrete square glorifies China's occupation.

Tibet seems like as a celestial paradise held in chains, but the west's tendency to romanticise the country's Buddhist culture has distorted our view. Popular belief is that under the Dalai Lama, Tibetans lived contentedly in a spiritual non-violent culture, uncorrupted by lust or greed: but in reality society was far more brutal than that vision.

Last December, Ye Xiaowen, head of China's administration for religious affairs, published a piece in the state-run China Daily newspaper that, although propaganda, rings true. "History clearly reveals that the old Tibet was not the Shangri-La that many imagine", he wrote "but a society under a system of feudal serfdom."

Until 1959, when China cracked down on Tibetan rebels and the Dalai Lama fled to northern India, around 98% of the population was enslaved in serfdom. Drepung monastery, on the outskirts of Lhasa, was one of the world's largest landowners with 185 manors, 25,000 serfs, 300 pastures, and 16,000 herdsmen. High-ranking lamas and secular landowners imposed crippling taxes, forced boys into monastic slavery and pilfered most of the country's wealth – torturing disobedient serfs by gouging out their eyes or severing their hamstrings.

Tashi Tsering, now an English professor at Lhasa University is representative of Tibetans that do not see China's occupation as worse tyranny. He was taken from his family near Drepung at 13 and forced into the Dalai Lama's personal dance troupe. Beaten by his teachers, Tsering put up with rape by a well-connected monk in exchange for protection. In his autobiography, The Struggle for Modern Tibet, Tsering writes that China brought long-awaited hope when is laid claim to Tibet in 1950.

After studying at the University of Washington, Tsering returned to Chinese-occupied Tibet in 1964, convinced that the country could modernise effectively by cooperating with the Chinese. Denounced during the Cultural Revolution, arrested in 1967 to spend six years in prison and labour camps, he still maintains that Mao Tse-Tung liberated his people.

Caught between a system reminiscent of medieval Europe and a colonial force that brought forced collectivisation and similar human rights abuses, Tibet moved from one oppressive regime to another.

During the 1990s, Tibetans suspected of harbouring nationalist tendencies were arrested and imprisoned and in 2006, Romanian climbers witnessed Chinese guards shooting a group of refugees headed for the Nepalese border. China's abhorrent treatment of "political subversives" has rightly spurned a global Free Tibet movement, diminishing the benefits that it did bring to society.

After 1959, it abolished slavery, serfdom and unfair taxes. Creating thousands of jobs through new infrastructure projects, it built Tibet's first hospitals and opened schools in every major village, bringing education to the masses. Clean water was pumped into the main towns and villages and the average life expectancy has almost doubled since 1950, to 60.

Even so, in 2001 the Dalai Lama said: "Tibet, materially, is very, very backward. Spiritually it is quite rich. But spirituality can't fill our stomachs."

Freedom for Tibet is not simply a case of liberation from China and the reinstatement of traditional values. Around 70 per cent of the population lives below the poverty line and enhanced spirituality alone will not improve economic conditions. Poverty is not quaint no matter how colourful the culture and the Tibet question is one that should be addressed from a rational, rather than an idealised viewpoint.

Nearby Bhutan, which has a similar Buddhist culture that it tried to preserve by banning television until 1999 and limiting foreign visitors, only held its first democratic elections in 2007. The Dalai Lama now promotes democracy, but Tibet may well have looked worse than it does today if the old order had been left to its own devices.

----------


## Klondyke

There are many readings about Tibet issue, (unless we rather reduce our thinking as told us per our Master of Demagogy)

e.g. 
Human Rights in Tibet before 1959 by Robert Barnett

Tibet serf debate shadows China'&#39;'s "emancipation day" | Reuters

----------


## panama hat

> There are many readings about Tibet issue


Yes, and they all point to China committing genocide - so fuck off

----------


## sabang

Some genocide:-


Ethnic Tibetans make up over 90% of the population. Over 78% of the total population follows the religion of Tibetan Buddhism. Other religions observed in the region include Bon, Chinese folk religions, Islam and Christianity.

For many years, agriculture was the primary economy. While agriculture and animal husbandry are still the top industries, other jobs including driving taxis and working in hotels have helped to contribute to the economy. Tourism is also a growing industry. An interesting fact about Tibet is that foreign tourists were not allowed to visit the region until the 1980s. Even though foreigners are now allowed to visit the region, a Tibet Entry Permit is required. There are many popular tourist destinations in Tibet, including Potala Palace, Namtso Lake, and Mount Everest.

Tibet has seen its population grow significantly in recent years. The population prior to the 1950s had already reached one million. This number had more than doubled by the 1990s. Since the early 1980s, the percentage of population growth has been in the double digits every ten years. In 2010, the population grew by over 14% since 2010 to surpass 3 million. Based on these trends, it can only be expected that Tibets population will continue to rise until it hits its next milestone.

Tibet Population 2021 (worldpopulationreview.com)

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## panama hat

Interesting . . . and the authors received all this information about Tibet from  . . .  the Communist Party.

Go for it, sabang . . .

----------


## Klondyke

> Until 1959, when China cracked down on Tibetan rebels and the Dalai Lama fled to northern India, around 98% of the population was enslaved in serfdom


Only in 1959 Mao had cracked down on Tibetan slavery, serfdom? 

That year in some other countries some have been still more equal than others...

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## sabang

> Go for it, sabang . . .


Absolutely- my only commitment is to the Truth. I care not if a few peoples confirmation bias gets hurt in the process, along with a few egos. There is no genocide in Tibet- but repression?  ::chitown::

----------


## Looper

*Australia's move to scrap Victoria-China Belt and Road agreement goes viral on Weibo*

The federal government's decision to dump Victoria's Belt and Road (BRI) agreement has apparently struck a nerve in China  or at least in Beijing  with a hashtag on social media network Weibo getting more than 260 million views. 
Key points:

    The Chinese state is believed to exercise an inordinate influence on Weibo

    Most of the popular posts under the hashtag were from the accounts of state media and the Central Communist Youth League

    The reaction from Chinese-Australian business and community groups has been mixed

While much of the social media fury has been driven by Beijing's propaganda apparatus, some business leaders in Australia say they too are disappointed by the "stupid" move.

The federal government on Wednesday used new powers to scupper four deals Victoria had made with foreign countries: two related to the BRI and one each with the Iranian and Syrian governments. 

The BRI is a massive China-funded infrastructure network spanning Asia to Europe that includes projects like deep-water ports, pipelines, railways and airports.

Chinese President Xi Jinping has pledged to welcome more countries to join the sprawling infrastructure-building initiative, emphasising his signature foreign relations project is aimed at strengthening China's economic and diplomatic relations around the world.

In the wake of Wednesday's announcement, the Chinese embassy in Australia branded the federal government's actions "provocative" and "unreasonable", warning they would damage bilateral relations.
Weibo users let loose
Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews at Tiananmen Square in China.
Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews travelled to China in 2017 for a Belt and Road Initiative forum.(

Twitter: Lisa Tucker)

Meanwhile, a hashtag literally translating to "China responds to Australia tearing up the Belt and Road agreement" went viral on China's home-grown social network. 

"Australia has no dignity. [We] need to give them a lesson," wrote Weibo user Linglingzhenyu.

"Some [countries] just don't deserve respect," user Rumenghang wrote.

A third posted, "Australia is mad. Now they are determined to be the lackey of America. Where is the spirit of contracts?"
weibo screenshot
On China's Weibo, a hashtag about China's response to Australia tearing up BRI agreements is trending.(

ABC News: Supplied)

Australian Strategy Policy Institute (ASPI) researcher Albert Zhang said the Chinese state exercised an inordinate influence on Weibo and the 260 million-plus views were unlikely to all be organic.

However, he said the virality of the hashtag was being driven both by China's propaganda tools and real anger amongst the Chinese people.

Most of the popular posts under the hashtag were from the accounts of state media and the Central Communist Youth League (CYL), a Chinese Communist Party-affiliated youth organisation whose Weibo account has over 15 million followers, he said.

Mr Zhang said CYL was known for coordinating internet commentators to shape narratives online.

While many of the posts that attracted high engagement were from state media, diplomats and CYL, there was also evidence of some organic nationalist sentiments, he said.

"I think the recent sort of withdrawal or cancellation of the trade agreement with the Chinese government might potentially cast a negative portrayal of the BRI agreements around the world," he said.

     "So I think the Chinese government here is trying to stop that perception before people interpret [the withdrawal] differently." 

BRI snub 'detrimental both to self and others'

Australia-China Business Council (ACBC) national president David Olsson said the cancellation of Victoria's BRI agreement was not unexpected, either in Australia or in Beijing.

Mr Olsson said business leaders were taking a pragmatic approach.

"They prefer to look beyond the politics of BRI and focus on the genuine commercial opportunities that will emerge from infrastructure investments across the Indo-Pacific region," he said. 

    "Business is agnostic when it comes to BRI  their focus is on commercial opportunities."

    Australia-China Friendship Society Victorian vice-president Rendi Liu said he was surprised the federal government went through with it.

"First of all, I feel this is a stupid action as it is detrimental both to self and others," he said.

"Second, it is very similar to [the policy] during the Cultural Revolution that political correctness was above all.

"I originally thought it was just a bluff, but now it seems to have been acted upon by Canberra."

He added that the government was putting its own domestic political interests before those of the nation.

In contrast, the Federation for a Democratic China's Australian chair, Chin Jin, said he "strongly welcomed" the decision to scrap the BRI agreement.

"I believe the decision will help Australia defending the Australian values and principles," said Mr Chin.

Mr Chin said he had worried the federal government was "being hesitant" on taking action against Chinese government interference, but the decision reassured him.

    "Western governments often fail to have a full picture of China's strategies to interfere in foreign countries," said Mr Chin.

As the two governments continue to face off on issues such as the coronavirus investigation, Huawei, alleged human rights abuses in Xinjiang and wine and meat exports, Mr Zhang said this pattern on Chinese social media was likely to continue.

"These type of viral posts are probably more likely to occur in the future, as nationalistic Chinese citizens feel more empowered to portray China in a more positive light, as well as reduce negative portrayals of the Chinese government and its policies," he said.

https://www.abc .net.au/news/2021-04-22/australia-china-belt-road-initiative-cancellation-viral-weibo/100086594

 ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> "These type of viral posts are probably more likely to occur in the future, as chinky propaganda farms churn out more crap," he meant to say.


FTFY.

----------


## Cujo

Good job too, that fucking asshole Andrews had no right to sign international agreements that affect Australian foreign policy. He's just a state premier.


> The Morrison government has used its sweeping new foreign veto laws to tear up Victoria’s Belt and Road agreements with China, in what the Chinese embassy has denounced as a “another unreasonable and provocative move”.
> 
> 
> The foreign minister, Marise Payne, said she would cancel those two deals, along with two older agreements between the Victorian government and Iranian and Syrian entities, because they were “inconsistent with Australia’s foreign policy or adverse to our foreign relations”.
> 
> 
> But a spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Canberra said the move showed the Australian government had “no sincerity in improving China-Australia relations”.
> 
> 
> ...


Federal government tears up Victoria’s Belt and Road agreements with China  | Australia news | The Guardian

----------


## Cujo

Double post

----------


## Looper

*Australia provokes China anger over scrapped deals*

Australia has scrapped agreements tied to China's Belt and Road initiative, prompting anger from Beijing and adding further strain to tense relations between the countries.

The federal government used new powers to rip up two deals made between the state of Victoria and China.

Canberra said it was backing away from the agreements to protect Australia's national interest.

The Chinese embassy in Australia branded the move "provocative".

It said the action by Canberra was "bound to bring further damage to bilateral relations, and will only end up hurting itself."

"It further shows that the Australian government has no sincerity in improving China-Australia relations," a spokesperson said in a statement.

It is the first time Canberra has used the powers to veto deals made by states, local governments or public universities with foreign countries. The laws allow the government to cancel agreements deemed to threaten Australia's national interest.

In addition to the China deals, Foreign Minister Marise Payne also scrapped agreements with Iran and Syria. They were a memorandum of understanding sealed between Victoria's education department and Iran, signed in 2004, and a 1999 scientific cooperation agreement signed with Syria.

Senator Payne said the four agreements were "inconsistent with Australia's foreign policy or adverse to our foreign relations".

Speaking to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, she defended the government's decision and said she did not expect China to retaliate.

"I think Australia is acting in our national interest, we are very careful and very considered in that approach," she told the AM radio programme.
Escalating tensions

The Victoria state's decision to sign up to China's Belt and Road initiative, with two agreements in 2018 and 2019, drew criticism from the federal government, as well as then-US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

The sweeping infrastructure project - which aims to expand global trade links - has funded trains, roads, and ports in many countries, but has left some saddled with debt.

Seen as a bold bid by President Xi Jinping for geopolitical influence the US has been particularly critical of China's so-called "debt diplomacy".

    Xi vows transparency over Belt and Road 

The move to cut ties with the initiative comes against backdrop of deteriorating tensions between Canberra and Beijing.

China is Australia's largest trading partner and before the pandemic, its biggest source of overseas university students. Relations have worsended in recent years, leading to diplomatic and trade ructions.

Trade ties have been particularly strained since Australia first called for a rigorous investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic in April.
2px presentational grey line
More on Australia-China tensions:

    The year when Australia and China hit 'lowest ebb'
    Australia senator quits over China scrutiny
    Billionaire mocks 'giant baby' Australia

2px presentational grey line

Canberra has taken other steps to curtail China's influence in the country, including putting a ban on telecoms giant Huawei from building Australia's 5G network and tightening foreign investment laws.

Still, the Australian government has denied its new veto power is aimed at China. Senator Payne said local governments and publicly funded universities had notified her of more than 1,000 foreign deals. 

Australia provokes China anger over scrapped deals - BBC News

----------


## Looper

*Home Affairs Secretary Mike Pezzullo warns 'drums of war' are beating in a message to staff*

One of Australia's most powerful national security figures says free nations "again hear the beating drums" of war, as military tensions in the Indo-Pacific rise.
Key points:

    Home Affairs Secretary Mike Pezzullo says the nation should be striving for peace but "not at the cost of our precious liberty"

    The powerful bureaucrat is widely tipped to take over as Defence Department Secretary later this year

    His message comes as Defence Minister Peter Dutton says war with China should not be discounted

In an Anzac Day message to staff, Home Affairs Department Secretary Mike Pezzullo said Australia must strive to reduce the likelihood of war "but not at the cost of our precious liberty".

Mr Pezzullo also invoked the memory of two United States war generals and warned this nation must be prepared "to send off, yet again, our warriors to fight".

Amid growing military tensions between China and the US over Taiwan, the powerful bureaucrat also highlighted the "protection afforded to Australia" by its 70-year-old ANZUS military alliance with the US and New Zealand.

"Today, as free nations again hear the beating drums and watch worryingly the militarisation of issues that we had, until recent years, thought unlikely to be catalysts for war, let us continue to search unceasingly for the chance for peace while bracing again, yet again, for the curse of war," Mr Pezzullo said.

"War might well be folly, but the greater folly is to wish away the curse by refusing to give it thought and attention, as if in so doing, war might leave us be, forgetting us perhaps."
General Douglas MacArthur (in the centre) inspecting the guard of honour comprising units of the 26th Australian Infantry Brigade of the 9th Australian Division
General Douglas MacArthur (centre) was quoted during a recent speech by one of Australia's highest ranking bureaucrats.(

Courtesy of the Australian War Memorial)

He drew on an address given by US Army General Douglas MacArthur at the West Point Military academy in 1962, where he reminded cadets "their mission was to train to fight and, when called upon, to win their nation's wars  all else is entrusted to others".
Pyne on potential China conflict
Soldiers of China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) take part in a military parade.

The chances of a war in the Indo-Pacific region involving China are rising sharply, according to former defence minister Christopher Pyne.
Read more

Similarly, Mr Pezzullo also invoked former Army General and US President Dwight D. Eisenhower who, he said, in 1953 "rallied his fellow Americans and its allies to the danger posed by the amassing of Soviet military power, and the new risk of militaristic aggression".

"Throughout his presidency, Eisenhower instilled in the free nations the conviction that as long as there persists tyranny's threat to freedom they must remain armed, strong and ready for war, even as they lament the curse of war," he said.

"Today, free nations continue still to face this sorrowful challenge.

"In a world of perpetual tension and dread, the drums of war beat  sometimes faintly and distantly, and at other times more loudly and ever closer."

Last weekend, Defence Minister Peter Dutton warned a war with China over Taiwan should not be discounted.

Inside military and government circles there is growing speculation that Mr Pezzullo could soon take over as Defence Department Secretary, again working under Mr Dutton.

Earlier this month, Assistant Defence Minister Andrew Hastie reminded Australian military personnel their "core business" will always be the "application of lethal violence" and warned "mission clarity" was vital to their work.

https://www.abc .net.au/news/2021-04-26/mike-pezzullo-home-affairs-war-defence-force/100096418

----------


## Looper

*Prime Minister Scott Morrison has denied a major investment in military bases in northern Australia is aimed at sending a message to China.*

Key points:

    Scott Morrison says all of the ADF's objectives are aimed at pursuing peace
    The Home Affairs secretary has had to defend his comments about "the beating drums" of war
    Beijing has told Australia to stop interfering in China's domestic affairs


At the same time, he has also defended comments made by new Defence Minister Peter Dutton that the possibility of conflict with China over Taiwan should not be "discounted".

Mr Morrison was in Darwin to confirm a $747 million upgrade to defence facilities in the Northern Territory, part of $8 billion set to be spent on military infrastructure in northern Australia over the next decade.

The bases are often used for joint Australian-US military training exercises, including an annual rotation of thousands of US Marines.

Mr Morrison said the goal of properly resourcing the Australian military was aimed at keeping peace in an "uncertain" region rather than preparing for conflict.
A bald man wearing a blue shirt stands talking to two soldiers dressed in army uniforms
Defence Minister Peter Dutton acknowledged the possibility of war with China.(

Department of Defence: Max Bree)

"All of our objectives through the activities of our Defence Forces is designed to pursue peace," he said.

"In a region as uncertain as this you need to ensure that you have the Defence capability that enables you to protect and defend Australia's interests in that region.

"And this enables us to ensure there's an appropriate balance — particularly in partnership with our United States allies to ensure we can promote an environment where peace will be the outcome."

During an interview last weekend, Mr Dutton observed conflict over Taiwan was a possibility, and that reunification was a "long-held objective" of China.
Space to play or pause, M to mute, left and right arrows to seek, up and down arrows for volume.
Play Video. Duration: 1 minute 53 seconds
Peter Dutton warns about the possibility of conflict between Taiwan and China.

That prompted a strong response from China, suggesting any progression in China-Australia relations required adherence to its 'One China' policy.

The Prime Minister said he did not consider Mr Dutton's comments to be inflammatory.

"I have set out what the government's purposes are here, and I know that's strongly supported by the Defence Minister, who has made the point about ensuring we have appropriate capability," Mr Morrison said.

"That's the Defence Minister's job, to ensure that we have that capability to deal with any matter of scenarios, and that's indeed what these training environments provide for.

"That's why you invest $747 million to ensure that your Defence Forces have the best training environments possible to build their capabilities to keep Australians safe."
Pezzullo defends 'beating drums' of war comments

Home Affairs secretary Mike Pezzullo is defending his Anzac Day message to department staff, where he said "free nations again hear the beating drums" of war.

The comments have been viewed as provocative, but Mr Pezzullo denied he was arguing war with countries such as China was inevitable.

"I heard the Prime Minister yesterday say the same thing at a press conference, where he might or might not have been asked a question that may or may not have been about my Anzac Day message," Mr Pezzullo told an event in Canberra.
Mike Pezzullo warns 'drums of war' are beating
Michael Pezzullo looks towards senators out of shot as he gives evidence with an AFP officer sitting next to him

In an Anzac Day message to staff, Home Affairs Department Secretary Mike Pezzullo says Australia must strive to reduce the likelihood of war "but not at the cost of our precious liberty".
Read more

"He said the government's policy is constantly to be working through effective statecraft and diplomacy, but also preparedness — he made explicit reference to the investment that the government's made in our defence capability.

"Constantly searching for peace in a way that's vigilant as to the risks, but in a way that not only presumes that others want peace, but we're all actively working towards it."

Mr Pezzullo described his speech as a "personal lament" for peace, on a day when the sacrifice of Australians who have served in the nation's Defence Force was being commemorated.

"If only the same striving for peace — along with, as Minister [for Home Affairs Karen] Andrews said, 'Being alert to risks without being alarmed by them' — if only the same vigilance, as well as the longing for peace, had been in evidence in times past, perhaps fewer would have fallen," he said.

"I think [it is] an entirely reasonable point to be making."

The Home Affairs secretary said public servants, regardless of their seniority, advised on, rather than dictated, government policy.

"It's terribly important that when secretaries speak, or heads of agencies, we speak about matters of strategy and implementation and administration, but not of policy — which always is a matter for an elected minister," Mr Pezzullo said.

China urges Australia to 'take its own medicine'

Mr Pezzullo's remarks came after Australia's top diplomat said China wanted Australia to "compromise on key national interests" before it would resume cooperation with the federal government.

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade secretary Frances Adamson made the comments in a recent speech where she outlined a "range of difficulties" Australia was facing with its largest trading partner.

In response, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wengbin said the change needed to come on the Australian side of the relationship.

"The root cause of the severe difficulties in bilateral relations is that Australia grossly interferes in China's domestic affairs," he said.

"[Australia] hurts China's interests and adopts discriminatory trade practices against China.

"None of the responsibility rests with China. Basically, Australia is telling others to take the medicine when it is sick itself.

"We hope Australia will look at China and China's development in an objective and rational light and work to build mutual trust and facilitate practical cooperation instead of going further down the wrong path."

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2021-04-28/scott-morrison-mike-pezzullo-war-conflict-china-australia/100100038


Nice Bushmaster!

----------


## OhOh

> as well as then-US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

----------


## sabang

Hot off the press from ABC 4 Corners (probably Australia's best current affairs program). 'Poking the Dragon':-





You're welcome.  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

Wingers that need a rethink. 

As the winemaker suggests, @ 21 minutes, "I'm just a pawn in a political game". 

Plus many companies decisions to exceptionally focus, 95% one company stated, on the Chinese market.

Yet the imports from Oz into China, are at record levels, @ 37 minutes.

Oz's citizens interests, the diminishing empires across the Pacific or its UK masters?

China delivers measurable improvements to its citizens and those of its political, trade and philosophy partners. 

Oz, ameristan and UK?  :rofl: 

One can only hope Oz iron ore prices remain competitive.

----------


## tomcat

...additional comment:

Australia Probe of China Port Signals Trouble for Beijing



By Jason Scott and Michael Heath
Tue, May 4, 2021, 7:41 AM

(Bloomberg) -- Five years ago, Australia’s defense chief dismissed worries over a Chinese company leasing a port used by U.S. Marines as “simply absurd.” Now the government in Canberra is weighing whether to force a sale due to national security concerns.

Defence Minister Peter Dutton confirmed over the weekend that his department will advise the government on what to do with the port. Asked whether the government would consider forced divestiture, he told the Sydney Morning Herald that officials would consider the national interest.

The decision risks further hurting China-Australia ties, which have plummeted since Prime Minister Scott Morrison called for an independent investigation into the coronavirus origin and strengthened defense ties with the U.S., India and Japan. It will also have ramifications far beyond Australia as the U.S. pushes countries to avoid cutting deals with Chinese companies on strategic infrastructure investments, from ports to undersea cables to 5G networks.

While Australia has cited national security in to block Chinese companies like Huawei Technologies Co., scrapping an existing deal would be unprecedented in the modern era, according to Hans Hendrischke, a professor of Chinese business and management at the University of Sydney. He noted that China is turning more toward venture capital in developed markets as direct investment becomes untenable.

“It’s an escalation that’s part of the decoupling process that’s happening globally connected with Chinese companies -- and long-term, major infrastructure investments,” Hendrischke said of Australia’s decision. “There has been pressure on Australia to revoke that deal because it’s seen to clash with U.S. interests.”

‘Economic Coercion’

Back in 2015, when the Northern Territory government sold a 99-year lease for the Port of Darwin to Chinese firm Landbridge Group for A$506 million ($391 million), Australian officials played down any criticism. Dennis Richardson, who was then secretary of the Defense Department, rejected concerns the People’s Liberation Army could gain access to the port as “alarmist nonsense.”

“The notion that Landbridge is leasing Darwin somehow or other as part of a broader strategic play by China and this gives the PLA navy access to Darwin is simply absurd,” Richardson told lawmakers in Canberra at the time. He said there was no chance of China spying on U.S.-Australian communications because naval vessels go silent in any commercial port.

In a sign of how rapidly times have changed, Australia’s Home Affairs Secretary Michael Pezzullo last week told his staff that “in a world of perpetual tension and dread, the drums of war beat.” While he didn’t directly mention China, he said free nations were watching “worryingly the militarization of issues that we had, until recent years, thought unlikely to be catalysts for war.”

China has sought to blame Australia for the downturn in ties while accusing Morrison’s government of “economic coercion.” Asked last week about speculation Australia would move to scrap the Darwin lease, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said his government would “firmly safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese businesses investing and operating overseas.”

“We hope the Australian side will look at bilateral cooperation in an objective and rational light and stop disrupting normal exchange and cooperation with China,” Wang told reporters in Beijing.

Should Morrison’s government decide to revoke the port deal, it will “most definitely” happen as it has a constitutional right to override laws made in the Northern Territory, as well as additional powers in relation to defense matters, said Donald Rothwell, a professor of international law at the Australian National University.

“The major issues if the Commonwealth seeks to revoke the arrangement would be the commercial legal consequences,” including penalties or compensation, Rothwell said. While the Port of Darwin’s commercial arrangements aren’t in the public domain, the matter could be settled quickly depending on the position of the federal government, he said.

Investment Plunges

Economic ties between the nations have taken a hit in recent years. China‘s trade reprisals at Australia have hit a range of commodities from coal to beef to barley and lobster, while Chinese investment Down Under plunged to about A$1 billion last year from a peak of A$16.5 billion in 2016, according to Australian National University research.

Even so, the proportion of Australian exports to China climbed to 43% by the end of 2020 even as the relationship unraveled thanks to the relentless rise in iron ore prices as China’s early emergence from Covid-19 spurred demand for the steelmaking ingredient. Major producers have struggled to keep pace with demand from Chinese steel mills, pushing the price to $193 a ton in April, just shy of its 2010 record.

Although China was the top buyer of Australian wine before the tariffs, accounting for 40% of shipments, strong European sales have helped counter the slump. The key danger ahead relates to international education and tourism, which are currently in stasis due to closure of international borders: China accounts for more than a third of foreign students in Australia and Chinese tourists account for 15% of visitors.
Despite the hit on some sectors of the economy, Australia’s tough stance on China is likely to play well with voters, according to Natasha Kassam, a former Australian diplomat who is the director of the Lowy Institute’s public opinion and foreign policy program.

“It would be very significant and send a strong message in terms of future Chinese investment,” she said when asked about the ramifications of a forced sale of the Darwin port lease. “Australia was probably thinking a year ago it could reach a new settling point with China, but that’s proven elusive.”

----------


## sabang

*‘There will be another big crisis’ if Australia takes back Port of Darwin*


There will be “another big crisis” if Australia rips up the 99-year lease on the Port of Darwin, according to The Australian’s Foreign Editor Greg Sheridan.

The port was leased to Chinese company Landbridge in 2015 but is currently under review on the orders of the National Security Committee of Cabinet.

“It would seem strange to me to set up a review if you didn’t plan to take some action at the end of the review,” Mr Sheridan told Sky News.

“After all, what government ever sets up a review without knowing what it wants the answer to be?”

He said there are “contradictory dynamics” in relation to this issue and if there is any divestment it will end up costing the government "quite a bit of money - and that's as it should be".


“If we do this, bad as things are between China and Australia right now, there will be another big crisis,” Mr Sheridan said.

“Because what China particularly hates is when we take actions which damage its international reputation, and this would be such an action.”
‘There will be another big crisis’ if Australia takes back Port of Darwin (msn.com)


The direct cost to cancel the lease would exceed $500mm. The indirect cost, in terms of lost trade and investment, plus being landed back with a loss making port lease that stands Buckleys chance of attracting any Chinese shipping trade, incalculable. I wonder if they will do it anyway? That's how stoopid politics is these days, and how little thieving pollies give a ferk about taxpayers money.

----------


## tomcat

...FTFY:

‘There will be another big crisis’ if Australia takes back Port of Darwin

There will be “another big crisis” if Australia rips up the 99-year lease on the Port of Darwin, according to The Australian’s Foreign Editor Greg Sheridan.

The port was leased to Chinese company Landbridge in 2015 but is currently under review on the orders of the National Security Committee of Cabinet.

“It would seem strange to me to set up a review if you didn’t plan to take some action at the end of the review,” Mr Sheridan told Sky News.

“After all, what government ever sets up a review without knowing what it wants the answer to be?”

He said there are “contradictory dynamics” in relation to this issue and if there is any divestment it will end up costing the government "quite a bit of money - and that's as it should be".


“If we do this, bad as things are between China and Australia right now, there will be another big crisis,” Mr Sheridan said.
“Because what China particularly hates is when we take damage its international reputation, and this would be such an action.”

----------


## sabang

When the lease was being signed- Australian Defence Force chief Mark Binskin said that spying could be done more easily by “sitting on a stool at the fish and chip shop on the wharf” than via signing a 99-year lease.

----------


## tomcat

...^takes some folks a while to see the completely obvious error of their ways...

----------


## sabang

Jealous of our superior lifestyle, quality of life, social benefits, public facilities and basic wages then, americano? 
I for one wish to preserve and enhance the Lucky country- you just wanna make us more like your poor country!
I guess misery loves company.  ::chitown::

----------


## lom

> The port was leased to Chinese company Landbridge in 2015 but is currently under review on the orders of the National Security Committee of Cabinet.


Landbridge is a company working within China's "belt and road" trade initiative. 
Just tell them that they don't need a port in Australia now that the trade between the countries has been drastically reduced.  :bananaman:

----------


## OhOh

> Now the government in Canberra is weighing whether to force a sale due to national security concerns.


One hopes the legal lease is more legally binding than the central governments "RULING" on The Commonwealth State of Victoria's legally signed agreement.




> The direct cost to cancel the lease would exceed $500mm. The indirect cost, in terms of lost trade and investment, plus being landed back with a loss making port lease that stands Buckleys chance of attracting any Chinese shipping trade, incalculable


The public destruction of The Commonwealth of Australia's agreements are "determined" by H.M. Government Governor General. His power is derived from Washington via London.

Others may assume Canberra's word is similar to *The LORDS* opinion of ameristani "agreements".

----------


## sabang

> now that the trade between the countries has been drastically reduced.



Consider it done-



*China suspends China-Australia Strategic Economic Dialogue indefinitely*



Beijing has cut off all diplomatic contact with the Australian government under the China-Australia Strategic Economic Dialogue, a key channel of communication between the two countries.

The move, announced by China's National Development and Reform Commission on Thursday morning, will make the task of repairing already strained diplomatic relations even more difficult as it will block contact between key government officials below the ministerial level under the dialogue.

The decision is the first major Chinese government response to the Morrison government's cancellation of Victoria's Belt and Road agreement in April.

The dialogue was established in 2014 in Beijing as a forum for the Australian treasurer, trade minister and the chairman of China's National Development and Reform Commission to discuss trade deals.

The Australian dollar fell quickly on the news, dropping 0.4 per cent to US77.16¢ after earlier trading at US77.58¢.

In a rare public proclamation published on the government website, the commission said Australian government officials had launched a series of measures to disrupt normal exchanges and cooperation between China and Australia "out of a Cold War mindset and ideological discrimination".

"Based on the current attitude of the Australian Commonwealth Government toward China-Australia cooperation, the National Development and Reform Commission of the People's Republic of China decides to indefinitely suspend all activities under the framework of the China-Australia Strategic Economic Dialogue," it said in the statement.

China suspends China-Australia Strategic Economic Dialogue indefinitely (msn.com)


I don't blame them, one iota. Explain this to your kids, if you're aussie. They just got a lot poorer. Fortunately I don't have any.

----------


## Norton

Sounds a Canberra power over Vic thing. Also, a whole lot of being a good US lapdog.

----------


## OhOh

One presumes China has alternate coal suppliers lined up.

----------


## tomcat

> Also, a whole lot of being a good US lapdog.


...next steps: reduce diplomatic personnel to a bare minimum to reduce opportunities for Chinese hostage-taking...reduce/cancel flights to the mainland/increase flights to all countries on its perimeter...establish regular naval patrols in the south China Sea in conjunction with the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan and the US...then pause, sit back and complain about yellow peril...

----------


## sabang

They should appoint you a 4 star General TC. You are very good at losing wars.

----------


## Klondyke

> Why is Australia’s elite apparently so keen on a ‘kinetic’ war with China, when it would be catastrophic for their country?


a good question...

----------


## OhOh

OZ v ....

*Israeli company denies 'security rumours' as Defence removes multi-billion-dollar technology and quarantines Army IT systems*


_"Defence has begun stripping Israeli-developed technology from Army  equipment because of fears it could be used to harvest sensitive data  from military hardware and systems.

__The company in question, Elbit Systems of Australia,  has "strongly" rejected what it claims are "security rumours" connected  to its multi-billion-dollar Battle Management System (BMS).
_
_However,  the ABC can reveal Army Headquarters last month issued a directive  ordering Defence to "cease use" of the Elbit BMS Command and Control  (BMS-C2) in preparation for a replacement system._
_"The  employment of the BMS-C2 system version 7.1 within Army's preparedness  environment is to cease no later than May 15 2021," the order states._
_
Military  sources have told the ABC that Defence believes the Elbit technology  may compromise sensitive data, triggering a directive that it "not be  configured or accessed" on certain Army systems.
_
_Elbit's  BMS, introduced a decade ago, allowed Army commanders to replace maps  and analogue radios with advanced digital, encrypted technology and  networks to better coordinate their units in the field and to protect  classified information._
_
Army's directive last month  also demanded items such as USB memory sticks and software "be  withdrawn from issue to users and consolidated and quarantined by  signals support staff".
_
_"Defence is to cease use of  the BMS-C2 in accordance with timings in order to prepare for the  transition to an interim Battle Management System capability."
_
_In  a statement, Elbit Systems of Australia managing director, retired  Major General Paul McLachlan, strongly rejected suggestions the  company's product posed any risk.
_
_"Elbit Systems of Australia strongly refutes the  security rumours raised in recent media articles," Major General  McLachlan said.
_
_"Elbit Systems of Australia  utilises secure software development processes in collaboration with the  Department of Defence, including the provision of all source code."_
_
Major  General McLachlan added: "Elbit Systems of Australia will continue to  work closely with the Australian Defence Force to deliver its network  capability requirements."
_
_The Defence Department  and federal government are yet to comment on the decision to stop using  Elbit equipment, which has begun to receive significant media attention  in Israel."_

Israeli company denies '''security rumours''' as Defence removes multi-billion-dollar technology and quarantines Army IT systems - ABC News


 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## sabang

*JAccuse! Peddling government propaganda, media over-hypes drums of war with China*

by Brian Toohey | May 11, 2021 

The use of disinformation campaigns and cyber attacks by China and other authoritarian states has rightly attracted much criticism in the mainstream media. However, the US and its democratic allies decades ago pioneered the use of disinformation in their own propaganda. Brian Toohey reports.


With few exceptions, Australias mainstream media has joined government ministers, senior public servants, generals and prominent US-funded think-tanks in implicitly drumming up support for a war with China. In the process, it has often abandoned accuracy and balance.
Take the May 4 article in the _Sydney Morning Herald_ and _The Age_, which stated that democracies are just learning how to compete with authoritarian states such as China, Russia, Iran and North Korea in grey zone tactics involving cyber attacks and disinformation campaigns somewhere between war and peace.
(Editors Note: take the latest Weekend Australian too.)
The claim is false. The US and its democratic allies long ago learnt to spread disinformation as part of a huge propaganda campaign. The _New York Times_, for example, published two major articles on the topic in December 1977, Worldwide Propaganda Network built by the CIA and CIA: Secret Shaper of Public Opinion.

*CIA developed media network*

The series explained how the US had developed an extensive network of more than 800 newspapers, news services, magazines, publishing houses and broadcasting stations, most overseas, to covertly promote American influence. The CIA even funded the Australian magazine _Quadrant_. Lincoln White, the US Consul General in Melbourne in the mid-1960s, later told me that the CIA station chief Bill Caldwell had a journalist on the _The_ _Age_ who put our side of the Vietnam war.
Within the CIA, the massive disinformation operation was dubbed Wisners Wurlitzer after the first head of covert action. The _New York Times_ said Wurlitzer was supposedly capable of orchestrating in almost any language anywhere in the world, whatever tune the CIA was in a mood to hear.
The establishment of Radio Free Europe to broadcast into the Soviet countries and Radio Free Asia to broadcast into China are some of the better-known examples. The agency belatedly realised that hardly anyone owned a radio in China and tried to launch radios in balloons over China, but they blew back towards the launch site in Taiwan.
More conventional techniques often succeeded, particularly when the CIA surreptitiously gained control of existing media organisations or otherwise co-opted local journalists and broadcasters.

*Iraq war based on disinformation*

More recently, some Anglo-Saxon democracies have relied on disinformation to build a case for starting wars. Before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, George W Bush, Tony Blair and John Howard justified their calamitous act of aggression using nonsensical claims, masquerading as intelligence, about Iraqs (non-existent) weapons of mass destruction.
This belligerence, in clear violation of the global rules-based order, led to an ongoing violence and a terrible refugee crisis, exacerbated by the war in Afghanistan and other parts of the Middle East. Although China engages in harsh internal repression, Australian journalists routinely refer to Chinese aggression offshore without acknowledging that it is minuscule, unlike that unleashed by American and Australian democracies in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam.
Nor are the democracies novices in other grey zone activities. The US has a long history of interfering in other countries. Among multiple examples, the US and the UK in 1953 covertly overthrew a democratically elected, secular Iranian prime minister, who wanted to nationalise the foreign companies exploiting countrys oil. The coup masters installed the dictator Pahlavi Reza whose corruption and brutality led to the Iranian Islamic revolution in 1979.
In 1956, the US intervened covertly to stop an internationally agreed election to unify Vietnam going ahead. President Eisenhower said in his memoirs that he intervened because he believed (correctly) that the Norths leader Ho Chi Minh would easily win the presidency. Without foreign interference by a democracy, there would have been no subsequent war in which as many as 3 million died. Even today, Vietnamese children are born with deformities caused by the American planes spraying dioxin, a persistent toxin, during the war. There are no comparable examples of China engaging in grey zone warfare where it has overthrown an important government or stopped a key election.

*Pine Gaps key role*

The cyber warfare capabilities of China and Russia are dwarfed by those of the US and its allies. The combination of the vast cyber capabilities of the US National Security Agency and those of the American military can destroy hospitals, power stations railway lines and other infrastructure in cyber attacks that go well beyond the grey zone.
Australias mainstream media regularly highlight grey zone activities involving Chinese intelligence-gathering activities without a balancing mention of the much more valuable intelligence gathered by satellites linked to US bases in Australia such as Pine Gap. The ABC has highlighted how Chinese spy ships can eavesdrop on military exercises off the Australian coast. The US and Australian military dont care  encryption ensures that nothing of consequence is intercepted.
Pine Gap, however, collects almost all telecommunications and radar signals within China, plus detecting the infrared heat radiated from missiles and planes. This enables the US to pinpoint targets in real time during a war with China. These benefits far outweigh the value of Australia contributing a couple of frigates and a squadron of F- 35 fighter planes to a future war with China.
If China were foolish enough to attack its sovereign province of Taiwan, that would deserve strong condemnation, but not necessarily military intervention. Almost every country has officially recognised Chinas sovereignty over Taiwan. In the 1950s and 60s, countries such as Australia and the US not only recognised that Taiwan was part of China, they promoted the fiction that China was ruled from the Taiwanese capital of Taipei.
Against this backdrop, outside intervention in Chinese military action against Taiwan would need to meet a higher standard than an attack by one sovereign country on another. If China were sensible, it would guarantee Taiwan autonomy, subject to an agreement that it would not host foreign military bases.
The Australian and US policy of encouraging Taiwan to take bolder steps towards total independence only risks a terrible war  China will never willingly allow Taiwan to host foreign military bases, just like America would never allow military bases of hostile foreign forces so close to its mainland.
*No criticism of our draconian laws*

The head of Home Affairs Michael Pezzullo told a parliamentary committee last year that he regularly briefs more than two dozen journalists. Most seemingly repeat what he has to say on a non-attributable basis. In a recent speech, Pezzullo said the drums of war were beating and Australia must be prepared to send off, yet again, our warriors to fight.
He said Australia must strive to reduce the likelihood of war, but not at the cost of our precious liberty. Few senior public servants have done more than Pezzullo to bring about draconian legislation curtailing Australian liberties.
In one example, long jail terms can now apply to anyone who harms relations with another country, whatever that is supposed to mean. Yet many of the journalists who rightly condemn Chinese authoritarianism fail to criticise the harsh provisions in this legislation.
Some Australian journalists prefer to use national security sources to foster fear of China. These sources helped generate excitable media reports about an important Chinese spy defecting to Australia. The spy was a fake and perhaps the journalist an unwitting recipient of disinformation.

J'Accuse! Peddling government propaganda, media over-hypes "drums of war" with China - Michael West

----------


## Hugh Cow

> One hopes the legal lease is more legally binding than the central governments "RULING" on The Commonwealth State of Victoria's legally signed agreement.*Or the free trade agreement with China*
> 
> The public destruction of The Commonwealth of Australia's agreements are "determined" by H.M. Government Governor General. His power is derived from Washington via London.
> 
> *Bullshit. His power is symbolic. He can be sacked by the Australia government. The Queens direction of the governor general is given on the advise of the Austalian government.*
> 
> Others may assume Canberra's word is similar to *The LORDS* opinion of ameristani "agreements".


*What ever Australia does it cannot count on any help from the USA NZ Europe or UK. They will most likely be falling over themselves to take up the export short fall from australia*.

Meanwhile the iron ore price has gone through the roof from $91 in May 2020, when the chinese put an 80% tarriff on Australian Barley, (so much for an FTA with China) to $218 today. The Chinese are not stupid enough to put a ban on the biggest iron ore producer in the world which no other country can match in quality or quantity. To do so would affect the Austrlian economy quite badly and would see the price soar to a level that would severely effect Chinese production and be catastrophic for their manufacturing sector and economy. There increased need for steel has caused the price to rise to a point where the banning of coal and barley has had no effect on the Australian govts revenue.
It has shown the Chinas' cavalier attitude to agreements signed between govts in good faith and they can never be trusted to keep their word. from the Hong kong agreement on.
IMO they are on a collision course for War with the West. Neither side will be winners but the resulting western world sanctions and blockades will cripple them for years to come.

----------


## OhOh

> the *iron ore price* has gone through the roof from $91 in May 2020, when the chinese put an 80% tarriff on Australian Barley, (so *much for an FTA with China*)


Panic buying by world buyers to protect themselves from even higher prices for *iron ore?
*
All FTAs have agreements and clause including barley and iron ore.

Barley was one issue, iron ore is another. Was the barley issue solved, is there an iron ore issue, other than suppliers getting richer?




> It has shown the Chinas' cavalier attitude to  agreements signed between govts in good faith and they can never be  trusted to keep their word


You may find it was The Commonwealth of Australia that is reneging on singed agreements contracts at it's masters bidding.

*China Exports By Country*

Australia
                         $53.48B
                         2020


*
China Imports By Country*

Australia $114.8dB 2020




2.1% of China Exports

42 % of The Commonwealth of Australia exports go to China

4.5 % of The Commonwealth of Australia exports go to UK

4 % of The Commonwealth of Australia exports go to ameristan

China Exports By Country

China Imports By Country

Australia Exports By Country

----------


## Looper

*Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd*

Countries should unite against China's growing economic and geopolitical coercion or risk being singled out and punished by Beijing, former Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has told the BBC.



Mr Rudd said governments in the West should not be afraid to challenge China on issues such as human rights.

Around the world, countries are navigating a new geopolitical order framed by the rising dominance of China.

"If you are going to have a disagreement with Beijing, as many governments around the world are now doing, it's far better to arrive at that position conjointly with other countries rather than unilaterally, because it makes it easier for China to exert bilateral leverage against you," Mr Rudd told the BBC's Talking Business Asia programme.

His comments come as relations between Australia and China have deteriorated to their worst point in decades. The relationship has soured following a series of economic and diplomatic blows dealt by each side.

Australia has scrapped agreements tied to China's massive infrastructure project, the Belt and Road Initiative. It also banned Chinese telecommunications firm Huawei from building the country's 5G network.

    Australia provokes China anger over scrapped deals
    The year when Australia and China hit 'lowest ebb'

But it was really Australia's call for an investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic that set off a new storm between the two sides.

China retaliated by placing sanctions on Australian imports - including wine, beef, lobster and barley - and has hinted more may come.

Beijing has also suspended key economic dialogues with Canberra, which effectively means there is no high-level contact to smooth things out.
A new battleground

Mr Rudd, who led Australia twice between 2007 and 2013, has criticised the current government's approach to China, saying that it has been counterproductive at times.

"The conservative government's response to the Chinese has from time to time been measured - but other times, frankly, has been rhetorical and shrill," said Mr Rudd, who is now president of the Asia Society Policy Institute.

The former Labor party prime minister believes it could risk the fortunes of a key Australian export to China: iron ore.

"They [the Chinese leadership] will see Australia as an unreliable supplier of iron ore long term, because of the geopolitical conclusions that Beijing will make in relation to the conservative government in Canberra.
Digging iron oreimage copyrightGetty Images
image captionAustralia is seeing record prices for its iron ore

"That long-term supply may be put at risk because of geopolitical factors."

A fifth of Australia's exports go to China, an economic relationship that has only grown in importance in the last few decades.
Taking on China

Increasingly countries - especially those ideologically allied with the US - are speaking out against China. In many ways, they followed the lead of the US.

Under former President Donald Trump, America launched a bitter trade war with China, imposing tariffs on hundreds of billions of dollars worth of goods.

That sparked a tit-for-tat battle over trade with China, and changed the tone of relations between the two countries.

China had hoped that under President Joe Biden things might be different, but that hasn't been the case.
Americans in Shanghai watched Biden's inauguration in Januaryimage copyrightGetty Images
image captionPeople in Shanghai watched Joe Biden's inauguration in January

While trade negotiations are ongoing, this week Kurt Campbell, the American deputy assistant to President Biden on national security issues, said the US was effectively done with the period of engagement with China.

In the past many countries, including Australia and the US, had a different approach to China. As China grew richer, there was also a sense it would grow more free.

Engagement and dialogue were the ways the global community tried to navigate China, but there appears to be growing consensus that is not working.

Mr Rudd said navigating China means picking your battles.

"China won't like it," he said, referencing growing concerns directed at China's treatment of its Uyghur population in Xinjiang, as well as Hong Kong and Taiwan.

"But the fact that China doesn't like something doesn't necessarily mean the rest of us shouldn't do it.

"That is not to say that you go and pick a fight with China every day of the week," he added.

    Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape
    US: China 'committed genocide against Uighurs'
    The long read: China's hidden camps

Mr Rudd, who speaks fluent Mandarin, dismissed criticisms that he was perhaps naïve or optimistic about China when he was in office.

He said he raised a number of concerns with the Chinese government on human rights.

"I've had many, many disagreements with China on human rights in the past," he told the BBC.

"On my first visit to Beijing as prime minister, I delivered an address at Peking University in Chinese criticising China's human rights performance."

However, he said the manner in which he conducted the relationship with China was diplomatic.

"It was hardline, but we also managed to preserve the overall balance of the relationship."

Don'&#39;'t take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd - BBC News

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Panic buying by world buyers to protect themselves from even higher prices for *iron ore?
> *
> All FTAs have agreements and clause including barley and iron ore.
> 
> Barley was one issue, iron ore is another. Was the barley issue solved, is there an iron ore issue, other than suppliers getting richer?
> 
> 
> You may find it was The Commonwealth of Australia that is reneging on singed agreements contracts at it's masters bidding.
> 
> ...


About 40% of exports to China is iron ore. On your figures about 45 billion. With that removed from the equation if China decides to do so it makes the figures fairly balanced and removes most of the financial sway they have with Australia. Many Chinese imports come from Chinese owned companies in australia.  Chinese exports are mainly from labour intensive industries which will hurt Chinese employment and that's not good for stability in a totalitarian country when living standards drop or stagnate. 
Also, commodities are there until used. Factories are only there when used. Iron ore stays in the ground until needed. 
Factories close and with them, jobs. It's not as much one way traffic as your deluded and flawed maoist anti western ideology suggests. If it was so easy to wean their mills off of Australia's superior quality and reliable delivery of product, the Chinese would've already done so. Their hubris has given us a glimpse of how arogant and controling they will become if they are allowed to do so. The west in its' own interest must seek alternative suppliers for Chinese goods from friendlier countries.
 The three "whatabout" stooges will be along shortly.

----------


## sabang

It's quite simple if you are an aussie (or at least it should be). If you care about your countries enviable standard of living and your kids, you want to trade with China- not go to War with them. Let uncle sam do the sabre rattling. 'When the trade stops flowing, the bullets start flying'.

----------


## OhOh

> The west in its' own interest must seek alternative suppliers for Chinese goods from friendlier countries.


Many will be very friendly if the "price" is right. The "price" may have many constituents.




> About 40% of exports to China is iron ore.


Similar to most organisations, having one large customer has it's pitfalls. 

It appears these are OZ customers:

_"Exports: 

The top exports of Australia are Iron Ore ($67.5B), Coal Briquettes ($51.5B), Petroleum Gas ($34.1B), Gold ($25.4B), and Aluminium Oxide ($5.6B), 

exporting mostly to China ($111B), Japan ($41.5B), South Korea ($18.9B), India ($15.3B), and United Kingdom ($10.6B)"

australian irn ore customers - Google 搜尋
_*
OZ annual exports:*
Exports                 
38,274.00



AUD Million



By country:

*Australia Exports By Country*

*This  page displays a table with  Australia Exports By Country in U.S.  dollars, according to the United Nations COMTRADE database on  international trade.* 


*China 
*
*                         $103.00B                     
*
*                         2019                     
*

 Japan
                         $39.45B
                         2019

 South Korea
                         $17.46B
                         2019

 United Kingdom
                         $10.57B
                         2019

 United States
                         $10.17B
                         2019

 India
                         $9.70B
                         2019

 Other Asia, nes
                         $8.84B
                         2019

 Singapore
                         $8.37B
                         2019

 New Zealand
                         $7.08B
                         2019

 Malaysia
                         $6.18B
                         2019

 Hong Kong
                         $5.17B
                         2019

 Vietnam
                         $4.21B
                         2019

 Indonesia
                         $4.10B
                         2019

https://tradingeconomics.com/austral...rts-by-country

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It's quite simple if you are an aussie (or at least it should be). If you care about your countries enviable standard of living and your kids, you want to trade with China- not go to War with them. Let uncle sam do the sabre rattling. 'When the trade stops flowing, the bullets start flying'.


So kiss chinky arse and let them do whatever they like, says the fawning chinky sycophant.

----------


## panama hat

> you want to trade with China- not go to War with them


You do realise there are more than two options, right?

----------


## sabang

And ya reckon orrstralia is heavily dependant on China? :Aussie: 



*The $3bn bargain: how China dominates Pacific mining, logging and fishing*



One country dominates the Pacific’s resources extraction.

Guardian analysis of trade data has revealed that China received more than half the total tonnes of seafood, wood and minerals exported from the region in 2019, a haul worth $3.3bn that has been described by experts as “staggering in magnitude”.

The country’s mass extraction of resources comes as China has deepened its connections with governments across the region, amid a soft power push that sees it rivalling the influence of the US and Australia in the Pacific.

China took more by weight of these resources from the Pacific than the next 10 countries combined, with experts saying China “would easily outstrip” other countries, including Australia, when it comes to “gross environmental impact of its extractive industries”.

Data analysis reveals the extent of China’s appetite for Pacific natural resources.

In 2019 China imported 4.8m tonnes of wood, 4.8m tonnes of mineral products, and 72,000 tonnes of seafood from the Pacific.

The next single largest customer for the Pacific’s extractive resources was Japan, which imported 4.1m tonnes of minerals – mostly petroleum - 370,000 tonnes of wood and 24,000 tonnes of seafood. Australia imported 600,000 tonnes of minerals, 5,000 tonnes of wood and 200 tonnes of seafood.

Shane Macleod, a research fellow at the Lowy Institute, says that China is such a dominant customer of Pacific resources because of its proximity to the region and its need to power its economy.

“They just have the appetite. They have the need for natural resources and they’re looking for sources and the Pacific is geographically close. It has the added benefit that the supply lines are shorter,” he said. “So you can look at the Ramu nickel mine in Papua New Guinea. That is providing raw material for China in the region, directly, without having to be transported from the other side of the planet.”

From Solomon Islands, more than 90% of extractive resources go to China when measured by weight. And China regularly claims more than 90% of the total tonnes of wood exported by Papua New Guinea and Solomon Islands.

Beyond direct imports of resources, data from the American Enterprise Institute shows more than US$2bn was invested by Chinese companies in Pacific mining in the past two decades. These include investments in the controversial Porgera, Ramu Nickel and Frieda River mines in PNG.

The Chinese government has also sent billions of dollars in official finance into the region, including tens of millions for new marine and industrial zones.


*Comparing the Pacific’s exports*

China is the Pacific’s biggest customer whether measured by weight or US dollars. But Australia is close behind when measured in value – $2.8bn to China’s $3.3bn in 2019. This is due to the fact that many extractive products are heavy but relatively inexpensive commodities, like wood.


Full Article- The $3bn bargain: how China dominates Pacific mining, logging and fishing (msn.com)



America has a few client states in the Pacific, such as the Marshall Islands, that are vassals- totally dependant on US aid, military presence and trade, to the point they have no independent foreign policy. Their UN vote is automatically with the US- typically, such as voting against any UN motion to censure Israel. It does rather look like China may be cultivating a few vassals too.

----------


## harrybarracuda

And what they can't buy, they steal.

----------


## OhOh

*Australia and New Zealand unite in ‘concerns’ over Beijing after NZ was accused of seeking ‘fast Chinese buck’*

31 May, 2021 09:37   / Updated 1 hour ago

"New Zealand PM Jacinda Ardern and her Australian counterpart,  Scott Morrison pledged unity in standing up to various Chinese policies.  The show of solidarity came after a media report suggested Wellington  was cozying up to China.      Prime Ministers Ardern and  Morrison met in Queenstown, New Zealand on Monday. 

They issued a joint  statement expressing concern over Beijing’s 

_“intensification of destabilising activities”_ 

in  the South China Sea and accused China of taking steps to undermine the  autonomy of Hong Kong and restricting human rights and freedoms there.

The leaders also called on China to _“respect the human rights of the Uyghur people and other Muslim minorities.”_

Beijing strongly denies any crackdowns on human rights within its borders, denouncing the claims as Western propaganda.

Ardern told reporters the two neighboring countries have _“broadly been positioned in exactly the same place”_ on major issues like human rights and trade.
_
“I really push back on any suggestion that we are not taking a strong stance on these incredibly important issues,”_ she said.

Morrison spoke in the same manner, describing Australia and New Zealand as _“great partners, friends, allies and indeed family.”
_
The public display of unity came right after New Zealand’s China  policies were called into question in a much-discussed documentary by  Channel 9’s ‘60 Minutes Australia’. In the show’s dramatic trailer, *New  Zealand’s approach to Beijing was characterized as a “deal with the devil,” splitting with Australia in order to make “a fast Chinese buck.”*

The episode was advertised with the tagline: 

*“Could it be that New Zealand is turning into New Xi-land?”* 

referring to Chinese leader Xi Jinping.

Ardern denounced the portrayal of her country as cozying up to China.

_“I  think what we’re dealing with here is more of a perception issue –_*  particularly, I notice, from the Australian media, than reality,” 

*she told ‘The AM Show’ on Monday. 

When asked if he thinks New Zealand is selling out its sovereignty to China, Morrison said no.
_
“Australia and New Zealand are trading nations, but neither of us would ever trade our sovereignty or our values,”_ 

he said.

Relations  between Australia and China have deteriorated significantly since  Australia called for an investigation into the origins of Covid-19. The  diplomatic rows involved tariffs, disputes in the sphere of  telecommunications, and politicians exchanging blows on social media.

Chinese  Foreign Ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin has rejected Australia’s and  New Zealand’s stance, saying that Beijing strongly opposes foreign  interference in its domestic affairs, according to Reuters._"

Australia and New Zealand unite in ‘concerns’ over Beijing after NZ was accused of seeking ‘fast Chinese buck’ — RT World News


_

_“Australia and New Zealand are trading nations, but neither of us would ever trade our sovereignty or our values,”

_
_"Beijing strongly opposes foreign  interference in its domestic affairs".

_Good to see all three countries are on the same page.

One wonders, after Beijing placed sanctions on OZ wine, which country is selling more wine to China and :

_"did a “deal with the devil,” in order to make “a fast Chinese buck.”



_

----------


## panama hat

> Beijing strongly denies any crackdowns on human rights within its borders, denouncing the claims as Western propaganda.


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Many will be very friendly if the "price" is right. The "price" may have many constituents.
> 
> 
> Similar to most organisations, having one large customer has it's pitfalls. 
> 
> It appears these are OZ customers:
> 
> _"Exports: 
> 
> ...


What you fail to note through that myopic lens that you view China with. China is a large importer of minerals from Australia. Not because it wants to but because it needs to. Australia also has the largest reserves of Uranium (cant see the Chinese getting any of that) but more importantly the second largest reserves of Lithium and that is something the Chinese will need in increasing volumes. Hopefully we have learned our lesson about unreliable trade partners and will sell to alternative countries that dont behave like spoiled brats from one child families.
As to your ludicrous assumption Sabang of war with China.
 The Chinese bark a lot and hope it will work. They know where there bread is buttered and becoming an international pariah would destroy there economy. They are painfully aware they have got this far by being allowed free access to Western markets and the western financial system. They are not strong enough to prevent being blockaded into financial oblivion and the Chinese for all their bluster know it. It will not be China V USA, self interest by the west will dictate it will be China V all western democracies and that is a fight, financial or otherwise they cannot win. In short they will stick to their current trade war tactics and Australia will have to eventually wean itself off of the poisoned Chinese Tit.

----------


## sabang

> As to your ludicrous assumption Sabang of war with China.


It is a ludicrous assumption, and one which I did not make- where did you get that fantasy from? But when you have, say, a serving Australian General being quoted in the Press as saying he believes there is a good chance of war with China in the next five years, things are getting pretty ludicrous aren't they?? This really happened- and the bloke should have lost his job. It is the western press that has been beating the war drums by megaphoning and exaggerating these type of comments (thanks rupert), much more so than the Chinese Press. People in glass houses should not throw stones.




> They know where there bread is buttered


I find myself wondering if many aussies have any idea at all what side their bread is buttered on. When I hear stoopid things like 'oh, we'll just sell the iron ore to someone else then', it is a real face palm moment. The plain fact is, even impacted producers (eg wine, seafood, barley, beef) that can at least export some of their produce to other markets are having to sell at a considerably lower price to do so. Booming iron ore prices and sales (ta China) make the national accounts look good- but they conceal a lot of pain in several sectors.

All so unnecessary, because it all started when some idiotic aussie 'Dep'ty Sheriff' politicians started parroting the invective of that blundering idiot Mike Pompousarse- who was already on his way out. To quote an old parable- just keep your damn mouth shut and let them think you a fool, rather than opening it and proving them right.

The "poisoned Chinese tit" will be the world's largest economy within a decade, and at least 30% larger than the US by 2050. Economically speaking, no country has benefitted more from the rise of China than Australia (well, except perhaps a billion Chinese people lifted out of dire poverty). Why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs? The Chinese are in no way compelled to favour Australia as a source of so many things, and them changing that dependency is in no way a declaration of war. It is however a spectacular act of self immolation on the part of Australia.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs? The Chinese are in no way compelled to favour Australia as a source of so many things, and them changing that dependency is in no way a declaration of war. It is however a spectacular act of self immolation on the part of Australia.


So again you advocate kow towing to the chinkies no matter what atrocities they commit against their own people.

----------


## panama hat

> no matter what atrocities they commit against their own people.


 . . . and others

----------


## Klondyke

Such an exception in our kind world...

----------


## sabang

> no matter what atrocities they commit against their own people.


Such as?




> . . and others


 Such as?

How tedious to have to repeat the question. How many human beings have been killed by US military (or proxy) action compared to Chinese in the current century? How many foreign governments have been attempted to overthrow, US vs China? How many Chinese soldiers have died or been maimed for life because of hostile action in foreign countries, vs American? How many of their allies soldiers? Can you guys count? 

So China is the clear and incumbent threat to world peace, right? Bit like that 911 plotting, WMD possessing Saddam I suppose.  ::chitown::

----------


## panama hat

> Such an exception in our kind world...


No one said it was an exception, but unlike everyone else you and your tweedle-dee and tweedle-dumber mates don't accept yours, rather deflect at every turn

----------


## Klondyke

Missing here helge...
Wondering whether he is not involved in the problems that are now placing Denmark on world map? 
(still nothing new in the World News?)

----------


## lom

> Missing here helge...
> Wondering whether he is not involved in the problems that are now placing Denmark on world map?


You mean the news that our filthy neighbors are releasing 700.000 liter of sewage per hour into the water between Denmark and Sweden?
That's not something new, they've always been the Indians of Scandinavia.

----------


## Klondyke

^Not exactly such sewage, quite a different one.  Added to SC, when helge (and Ms.K. either) hasn't proceeded...

----------


## OhOh

> Hopefully we have learned our lesson


 I agree,  diversify your product purchasers and provide policies for your own citizens well-being.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I agree,  diversify your product purchasers and provide policies for your own citizens well-being.


And rob what you can from anyone you can.

----------


## OhOh

> And rob what you can from anyone you can.


Now that would take exceptional skills or the threat of being black balled from one's club.

----------


## helge

> You mean the news that our filthy neighbors are releasing 700.000 liter of sewage per hour into the water between Denmark and Sweden?


An accident

700000 litre is 700 cubic meters

Catastrophy !



> That's not something new, they've always been the Indians of Scandinavia.


True

I take it you see yourself as cowboys then

MUH 

Keep Denmark clean:


Drive a swede to the ferry

 :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

I was always told by Norwegians and Swedes that Danes are the Italians of Scandinavia . . . not a bad thing, really, and hardly an insult.  :Smile:

----------


## Hugh Cow

> It is a ludicrous assumption, and one which I did not make- where did you get that fantasy from? But when you have, say, a serving Australian General being quoted in the Press as saying he believes there is a good chance of war with China in the next five years, things are getting pretty ludicrous aren't they?? This really happened- and the bloke should have lost his job. It is the western press that has been beating the war drums by megaphoning and exaggerating these type of comments (thanks rupert), much more so than the Chinese Press. People in glass houses should not throw stones.
> 
> 
> I find myself wondering if many aussies have any idea at all what side their bread is buttered on. When I hear stoopid things like 'oh, we'll just sell the iron ore to someone else then', it is a real face palm moment. The plain fact is, even impacted producers (eg wine, seafood, barley, beef) that can at least export some of their produce to other markets are having to sell at a considerably lower price to do so. Booming iron ore prices and sales (ta China) make the national accounts look good- but they conceal a lot of pain in several sectors.
> 
> All so unnecessary, because it all started when some idiotic aussie 'Dep'ty Sheriff' politicians started parroting the invective of that blundering idiot Mike Pompousarse- who was already on his way out. To quote an old parable- just keep your damn mouth shut and let them think you a fool, rather than opening it and proving them right.
> 
> The "poisoned Chinese tit" will be the world's largest economy within a decade, and at least 30% larger than the US by 2050. Economically speaking, no country has benefitted more from the rise of China than Australia (well, except perhaps a billion Chinese people lifted out of dire poverty). Why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs? The Chinese are in no way compelled to favour Australia as a source of so many things, and them changing that dependency is in no way a declaration of war. It is however a spectacular act of self immolation on the part of Australia.


There you have finally nailed it. They are still to lift many more out of poverty while uplifting many millions more just barely above the poverty line. In that they still have a long way to go. They know it would set them back to halt iron ore shipments. Why do you think they are still buying Australian ore at record prices? As to coal China is building 88 GW of coal fired power stations part of a total of 247 GW planned. They were in trouble last Winter with heating cut backs due to coal shortages Boycotting australian coal will put the price through the roof. They have underestimated Australias resolve and are now trying to make an example to show countries their compliance  is expected as part of the trading terms. The U.S. with all its many faults is still way ahead of anyone else as a world power. The E.U. is a paper tiger and always will be with 27 self interested nations. It cant even deal with Turkey or for that matter its own illegal migrant problem, let alone a power like China. It's planning on making itself or at least its biggest member more energy dependant on its biggest rival.
You seem to imply that trade is a means in itself and that rogue nations should go on unchecked for the sake of trade. 
Nations cannot allow themselves to be bullied. It just kicks the day of reckoning further down the road and it will come. The Phills are a good example of how far aquiescing to China gets you.

----------


## tomcat

> The E.U. is a paper tiger and always will be with 27 self interested nations.


...definitely an amalgam of shopkeepers under a thick layer of self-perpetuating myopic bureaucracy that still depends on the US for defense...

----------


## sabang

Defence against Whom, in the current century? The Cold war has finished (last century actually), and Russia is the largest energy supplier to Europe, which is the largest foreign investor in Russia.
So I suspect the inordinate amount of US military bases in Europe and elsewhere is mainly to feed Americas own oversized ego, and self delusion it is the 'indispensible country'.

----------


## tomcat

> So I suspect the inordinate amount of US military bases in Europe and elsewhere is mainly to feed Americas own oversized ego, and self delusion it is the 'indispensible country'.


...your suspicions appear to have overtaken your common sense...

----------


## sabang

Your Americanness overrides your common sense, historical perspective, and viewpoint of the world as it really is. Funny really, because you fund most of it while a large part of your nation subsists on the poverty line, with what seems to an aussie aging second world infrastructure and public facilities.

The challenge facing America in the real world is to pay your burger flippers better, not open yet another unwanted, unneeded military base in some foreign place.

----------


## havnfun

> The challenge facing America in the real world is to pay your burger flippers better, not open yet another unwanted, unneeded military base in some foreign place.


Easy answer to that, Stop all immigration for 5 years.

Weird how most immigration is out of places like China to places like USA Australia &England :Smile:

----------


## tomcat

> Easy, impractical and dumb answer to that


...ftfy...

----------


## lom

> Weird how most immigration is out of places like China to places like USA Australia &England


and those who come to the US  they all come via Mexico.

----------


## OhOh

> Easy answer to that, Stop all immigration for 5 years.


ameristan can't afford the loss.

Those immigrants arrive mainly with the clothes on their backs. Take day work at any rate. Spend any money they earn buying shelter, food and sending any surplus back home to feed their families.

Once established, the family arrives and all live in squalor.

Allegedly, the gdp value is 2% to 3%. It also ensures the ameristan pay rate remains low. Look for earnings growth for the ameristani bottom 60% for decades. 

Similar to Third World countries the world over. Go look at the shanty towns under the highway/train bridges.  

No need to travel far, Bangkok has them.

----------


## Klondyke

> Easy answer to that, Stop all immigration for 5 years.


Easy solution to that: Stop all the wars for ever and repay what was damaged that the refugee can live there...

----------


## panama hat

> Easy solution to that: Stop all the wars for ever and repay what was damaged that the refugee can live there...


I agree . . . some countries have done similar - others not, right Klongdick






Chechnya in all its glory - Russian invasion and annihilation

----------


## sabang

Are you a Czechen nationalist PH?  ::chitown::

----------


## tomcat

> Czechen


...yet another sign of mental fog...US lasers have penetrated your tin foil!...

----------


## sabang

Do you think I misspelt Czech, einstein?

----------


## panama hat

> Do you think I misspelt Czech, einstein?


It has nothing to do with them, though. 





> Are you a Czechen nationalist PH?


Doesn't exist

----------


## Klondyke

Idiotic (as usually) whataboutism in the thread of Australia - China...

BTW, anybody has idea what's the current situation of the restored life in Chechnya? After years of disasters during Yeltsin rule?

----------


## panama hat

> Idiotic


Yes, yet you still post

----------


## helge

> I was always told by Norwegians and Swedes that Danes are the Italians of Scandinavia . . . not a bad thing, really, and hardly an insult.


They probably went on a day trip to Copenhagen and tasted spagetti for the first, only and last time.

They aren't too informed and are mostly confused, even when sober.


We'll forgive them;  the poor souls

----------


## Looper

*Japan throws support behind Australia over opposition to China's economic 'coercion'*

Japan's government has backed Australia against China's campaign of economic coercion, suggesting Beijing's informal trade sanctions on Australian exporters have destabilised the international system.
Key points:

    Japan and Australia agreed to urge a peaceful resolution to tensions over Taiwan

    The voiced "serious concerns" over reports of human rights abuses in China's far western region of Xinjiang

    The countries said they were "drawn ever closer by our shared strategic interests"

Foreign Minister Marise Payne and Defence Minister Peter Dutton met their Japanese counterparts  Foreign Minister Toshimitsu Motegi and Defence Minister Nobuo Kishi  via video link earlier on Wednesday.

The two countries issued a detailed joint statement in the aftermath of the meeting touching on a wide range of issues, including Myanmar, defence cooperation and tensions in the South China Sea and East China Sea.

The joint statement does not specifically mention China's moves to hit a range of Australian products with sanctions in retaliation for broader political disputes.

But it makes a clear reference to the trade tensions, saying: "We commit to opposing coercion and destabilising behaviour by economic means, which undermines the rules-based international system."

The statement also declares the two countries "are drawn ever closer by our shared strategic interests in the security, stability and prosperity of the Indo-Pacific and beyond, and deep economic complementarity".

"We pledge to further strengthen cooperation in the area of economic security. We express concern over coercive economic practices and will work with partners to address economic challenges to support a free, open, inclusive and prosperous Indo-Pacific," it reads.

And for the first time in a joint Australia-Japan statement, the two countries also broached the sensitive subject of Taiwan.

The self-governing island, which is claimed by China's government, has been facing increasing military pressure from Beijing.

Mr Motegi later told reporters the Australia and Japanese ministers "confirmed the importance of peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait, and agreed to urge a peaceful resolution of the cross-Strait issues".
'Serious concerns' raised over reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang

Both nations also voiced "serious concerns" over reports of human rights abuses against Uyghur and other Muslim minorities in China's far western region of Xinjiang.

Calls have grown from some Western nations to investigate if China's actions in Xinjiang amount to genocide, as the United States and parliaments in nations such as Britain and Canada have described China's policies there.
China's Xinjiang crackdown
A huge detention complex in Xinjiang seen by satellite, it has a high perimeter wall with watchtowers.

China appears to be expanding its network of secret detention facilities in Xinjiang, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute says.
Read more

"We share serious concerns about reported human rights abuses against Uyghur and other Muslim minorities in Xinjiang," the joint statement says.

"We call on China to grant urgent, meaningful and unfettered access to Xinjiang for independent international observers, including the UN high commissioner for human rights."

When Prime Minister Scott Morrison visited Tokyo last year Japan and Australia also announced in-principle agreement to a new reciprocal access agreement (RAA) for military forces.

The two countries have not yet signed the agreement, but the joint statement said both sides would "commit to accelerating all outstanding tasks to sign the RAA at the earliest possible opportunity".

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2021-06-09/australia-japan-urge-peace-stability-taiwan-trait-joint-meeting/100203080

----------


## tomcat

> The countries said they were "drawn ever closer by our shared strategic interests"


...perhaps the Japs would agree to greatly increase their imports of Australian wine...

----------


## sabang

They already own our biggest brewery.

----------


## Looper

*Australia could soon host more US marines in Darwin*

Australia could soon be hosting more US marines and warships, with Defence Minister Peter Dutton declaring he wants greater military cooperation with our closest ally.
Key points:

    The ABC has learnt there is a proposal to form a new joint US marines and ADF training brigade
    If it went ahead, it would be the first of its kind for Australia
    Defence Minister Peter Dutton says Australia's security depends on closer military ties with the US

Senior officials from both nations are discussing options for expanded military cooperation, which the ABC has learnt include a proposal to form a new joint US marines and ADF training brigade based in Darwin.

If established, the joint brigade would be the first of its kind for Australia and would likely involve a rotating command with the United States.

Concerns over China's rise are driving a rethink of how the United States can best respond to future threats in the Indo-Pacific, and where to place military assets.

US President Joe Biden has ordered a global force posture review "to ensure the footprint of American service members worldwide is correctly sized and supports strategy". 

In his first major policy speech since taking over the Defence portfolio, Mr Dutton declared Australia's security depended on closer military ties with its ANZUS ally.

"I think that is in our own security interest, and I think it is in the interest of the US as well," he said. 

"In terms of composition and numbers and what it might look like, I will leave that for another day.

    "But there is a desire by us to see a further strengthening of that relationship and that engagement."

The first 200 US Marines from the 2020 Marine Rotational Force arrive in Darwin wearing face masks.
Thousands of marines rotate through Australia for training each year.(

Supplied: Department of Defence)

Mr Dutton agreed there was scope to increase the size of the US marine rotational force in the Top End from its pre-COVID level of 2,500, and to base US navy vessels at HMAS Stirling near Perth.

"We'll have those discussions with the United States, but there's a clear desire for us to continue to strengthen that program and we'll look at ways in which we can do that," he said.

Addressing the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), Mr Dutton also said the question of how Australia should navigate its relationship with China was not complicated.

"We have a respectful relationship with China from our own perspective. We are a peaceful nation, we seek to support our neighbours particularly in a time of need, and we have a need for that in response," he said.

Appearing later at the ASPI conference, acting US ambassador Michael Goldman declined to comment on whether more American marines could soon be heading to Australia. 

"We have an AUSMIN (Australia-United States Ministerial Consultations) construct with a force posture review group and I think these things will all be considered in the context of that. I wouldn't want to get ahead of those," the charge d 'affairs said. 

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2021-06-10/peter-dutton-wants-more-us-marines-in-australia/100206142

----------


## OhOh

Such an action nobody could have predicted.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## lom

> Such an action nobody could have predicted.


Something instigated this action, can you guess what it was?

----------


## Klondyke

> Something instigated this action, can you guess what it was?


Did Australia lose the war? (to US?)

----------


## sabang

If the US Marines arrive by sea, at least they won't have the humiliation of having to berth at a Chinese leased port. HMAS Coonawarra is nearby.  :Smile:

----------


## Looper

*Scott Morrison says G7 leaders back Australia's stand over China*

Prime Minister Scott Morrison says the leaders of G7 nations have a "strong level of support" for the stand Australia has taken against China as the three-day summit wrapped up in Cornwall.
Key points:

    Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Australia had to be patient to repair its troubled relationship with China, after speaking to G7 leaders about tensions in the Indo-Pacific region
    The G7 has agreed to strict measures on coal-fired power plants and promised to move away from coal generated power
    Mr Morrison is now in London for talks with UK officials and to discuss the Australia/UK free trade agreement

Speaking shortly before departing for talks with UK officials in London, Mr Morrison said there was increased awareness from European nations about tensions in the Indo-Pacific region and Australia had to be patient to restore its troubled relationship with China.

"What I detected was a significant and increasing awareness of the impact of tensions in the Indo-Pacific for the broader global system, and that in particular relates to Europe," Mr Morrison said.

"There was a very high level of awareness and a very strong level of support for what has been a very consistent and clear stand that Australia has taken, consistent with our liberal democratic values which are shared by all of those who joined in on the discussions these last few days."

Throughout the three-day event, their first face-to-face meeting in almost two years, the underlying message of the G7 leaders was about the importance of the world's democracies uniting as they face the biggest challenges since World War II.

Namely, the pandemic, China's growing power and climate change. 

On an assertive China, Mr Morrison has the G7 nations on side, but there was immediate criticism that the leaders had not gone far enough in tangible action against Beijing.

But, in a sign of the Western economies starting to muscle up against Beijing, China featured in the final communique.

The leaders agreed to call out human rights abuses in Hong Kong and Xinjiang and take action against forced labour practices in the agricultural, solar and garment sectors. 

Mr Morrison confirmed he spoke with G7 leaders about the infamous list of 14 grievances against Australia from a Chinese diplomat in Canberra late last year, saying it was no surprise to some of them.

"To have set those out and there is not a country who would sit around that table that would see concession on any of those 14 points as something they also would tolerate," he said.

"So I think it just set out very clearly that there are differences in world view here, and they may never be able to be resolved.

"But living with China, which is the goal, also requires us to be very clear about what our values are and what our principles are and how our countries are run, free of interference."
Scott Morrison sits down with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and US President Joe Biden.
Scott Morrison sat down with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and US President Joe Biden for a trilateral meeting.(

Supplied: Australian Government)

The G7 leaders also called for a full thorough investigation into the origins of COVID-19, which will infuriate Chinas President Xi Jinping. 

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2021-06-14/morrison-g7-leaders-back-australia-stand-on-china/100212798

----------


## Hugh Cow

The Chinese petulant child like diplomacy has drawn countries closer together in a mutual self interest. Maybe they should have paid more attention to Sun Tzu. Have your enemies concentrating on what divides then not what unites them. The are shooting themselves in the foot with this war mongering belacose rhetoric.

----------


## sabang

Monkey see, monkey do:-

*Australia vows to vigorously defend itself against China WTO complaint*


Beijing has launched a formal challenge against Australian tariffs on several Chinese products in the latest escalation of the dispute between the two countries.



The Chinese governments decision to take action through the World Trade Organization follows Australias own twin challenges against Beijings imposition of tariffs on Australian barley and wine.

The Chinese commerce ministry announced late on Thursday that it would use WTO procedures to challenge Australias measures targeting railway wheels, wind towers, and stainless steel sink products from China.

Australia vows to vigorously defend itself against China WTO complaint (msn.com)

----------


## harrybarracuda

Awww look at the chinky whingers.

----------


## Looper

*Australia v China
September 2nd 2021

China v Australia 
November 16th 2021
*

*Socceroos World Cup hub: Australia's qualification path for Qatar 2022, squads, results, standings, fixtures, draw, goalscorers*

The Socceroos have reached the third round  of Asia's World Cup qualification, with the top two teams from each of  the two groups booking a ticket to the Qatar 2022 tournament. 
 The Graham Arnold-led Australian team will  be aiming to qualify for their fifth consecutive World Cup - and a sixth  in the nation's history.


 Australia has received their final path to the World Cup, with a favourable draw featuring Japan, Saudi Arabia, China, Oman and Vietnam.

*Sporting News* looks at everything you need to know about the Socceroos' quest to once again feature on football's biggest stage.




Socceroos World Cup hub: Australia's qualification path for Qatar 2022, squads, results, standings, fixtures, draw, goalscorers | Sporting News Australia

----------


## harrybarracuda

Well that should be a tasty pair of fixtures. 

You have to admire FIFA's sense of humour. I expect the chinkies will be whinging again.

 :bananaman:

----------


## Looper

*Socceroos ease past China 3-0 in Qatar World Cup qualifier*

The Socceroos have notched up a comfortable 3-0 win over China in World Cup qualifying in Doha this morning.

Awer Mabil, Martin Boyle and Mitchell Duke all scored as the Socceroos ran rampant against a limited China side that failed to muster a single shot on target.  



Playing in Qatar due to issues with travelling back to Australia related to COVID quarantine requirements, the Socceroos got their third phase of Asian qualifying off to the best possible start within the air-conditioned confines of the Khalifa International Stadium.

Coach Graham Arnold said he was" very proud" of his team's performance.

"There is a lot more improvement left ... I thought we were fantastic tonight."



https://www.abc. net.au/news/2021-09-03/socceroos-vs-china-live-updates-world-cup-qualifier/100419322

----------


## sabang

In these fractious times, the two main global antagonists seem to be China and the USA. But at least they have one thing in common. Neither is much good at soccer.  :Smile:

----------


## Switch

Australia has aligned itself with US policy. It makes for interesting defense policies in Australia, particularly with the closer geographical connection to the Chines mainland.

Despite this, China obviously feels confident to allow US spending to bloom in the pacific region. Australia has chosen the way forward in dealing with the Chinese strangulation of the economy, and the US are happy to take advantage.

Better to be tied to a democratic alliance, than a future with strings attached. Time will tell.

----------


## sabang

> the Chinese strangulation of the economy,


If that is strangulation, gimme more, more, more! (Recent tussle aside.)

We owe a lot to China, by far our largest trade partner. Basically it keeps us fat n happy.
We owe a lot to the US, our great friends and allies. Basically our security guarantor.

Increasingly, there is friction between the two- and we walk a Dplomatic tightrope.

----------


## Switch

Australia does not wish to be indebted to a Chinese government that engulfs much smaller countries with cheap loans.
It also acts as a diplomatic sponge, sucking up the east v west tensions. It’s a brave stance, but which way do you turn?

----------


## sabang

We are not. We sell far more to them than they buy from us. They are not even the largest foreign owner of our farms, mines & properties (but coming up in the ranks). We owe their banks sweet FA.

_"We're all doing fine in the Lucky Country. Doin' alright, 'cus we're making money"


_


> 











> It’s a brave stance, but which way do you turn?


Aye, there's the rub. Especially with the US going Rogue this century.

----------


## lom

> We sell far more to them than they buy from us.


Economics 101?  :Smile:

----------


## sabang

> _"We're all doing fine in the Lucky Country. Doin' alright, 'cus we're making money"_


Economics #001  :Smile:

----------


## Looper

*Australia to get nuclear-powered submarines, will scrap $90b program to build French-designed subs*

Australia's next submarine fleet will be nuclear-powered under an audacious plan that will see a controversial $90 billion program to build up to 12 French-designed submarines scrapped.


Key points:

    Joe Biden is expected to make an announcement at 7:00am AEST
    The ABC understands the Prime Minister convened a National Security Committee of Cabinet yesterday
    It's expected that there will be an increased presence of American nuclear subs in the region

The ABC understands Australia will use American and British technology to configure its next submarine fleet in a bid to replace its existing Collins class subs with a boat more suitable to the deteriorating strategic environment.

Australia, the United States and Britain are expected to jointly announce a new trilateral security partnership on Thursday, with a focus on aligning technology and regional challenges.

But Australia's embrace of nuclear-powered submarines will have its political and technological challenges, given there is no domestic nuclear industry.

The new three-nation security pact  called AUKUS  will be seen by China as a bid to counter its regional influence, especially in the contested South China Sea.

The nuclear submarines would likely be based in WA.

In 2017, the Turnbull government announced French company Naval Group (then known as DCNS) had been selected for this country's largest-ever defence contract, to design and build "regionally superior" conventional submarines.

The ABC understands Prime Minister Scott Morrison convened a National Security Committee of Cabinet on Tuesday ahead of coordinated announcements in Washington and London.

Cabinet ministers were given special COVID exemptions to travel to Canberra for the top-secret discussions.

In a highly unusual step, the Prime Minister also invited Labor leader Anthony Albanese and three of his senior shadow ministers to be briefed on the plan.

American media reports say US President Joe Biden is scheduled to deliver "brief remarks about a national security initiative" on Wednesday afternoon in Washington local time.

A well-placed military source has told the ABC the Defence Department's general manager of submarines, Greg Sammut, has called an urgent "clear lower decks" meeting for tomorrow morning to discuss the dramatic development.

Another senior official said "top secret" briefings have been arranged at the Defence Department on Thursday.

Inside military circles there is also speculation that the transition to a new nuclear submarine program could initially be overseen by Retired US Vice Admiral William Hilarides, who chairs the federal government's Naval Shipbuilding Expert Advisory Panel.

Government sources say Mr Morrison tried unsuccessfully to line up a phone call with French President Emmanuel Macron on Wednesday, but it has now been instead scheduled for Thursday.

The ABC has been told that news of Australia's decision was instead delivered to Paris by the secretary of the Defence Department Greg Moriarty.

Allied naval presence is expected to increase north of Australia  including in the contested South China Sea  as part of a coordinated tri-continental push against Beijing territorial aggression.

Australia, the United States and Britain are expected to reorient their submarine and warship fleets to counter China's increasing regional presence.

Regional diplomatic missions across Canberra are expecting to be briefed on the announcement on Thursday afternoon.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2021-09-15/allied-naval-united-states-biden-australia-nuclear-submarines/100465628

----------


## baldrick

Good.

----------


## Looper

I am excited about submarines this week so I have begun assembling some mock-up wireframe designs for the noo merkin powered nook sub.

So far I am liking the British Astute Class attack submarine design though, so it could be a bit of fusion cuisine on the strategic defence menu



I cannot help but feel that the froglets had it coming with their widely reported slack wanky attitude when it came to late arrivals at meetings

----------


## hallelujah

> I am excited about submarines this week so I have begun assembling some mock-up wireframe designs for the noo merkin powered nook sub.
> 
> So far I am liking the British Astute Class attack submarine design though, so it could be a bit of fusion cuisine on the strategic defence menu
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot help but feel that the froglets had it coming with their widely reported slack wanky attitude when it came to late arrivals at meetings


I have no idea about the military and its assets, but I read your posts on this topic with genuine interest and admire your collection of little soldiers and aircraft from afar. Everyone needs a hobby.

Aesthetically and technically speaking, what does this US/UK/AUS pact mean (apart from a bit of wounded French pride, which is always good)?

----------


## Looper

> Aesthetically and technically speaking, what does this US/UK/AUS pact mean (apart from a bit of wounded French pride, which is always good)?


Personally I don't think we wanna throw our big chips in with the somewhat dodgy fair-weather froglets if you have the option of partnering with proper anglo-saxon blood brothers - nooks or no nooks

----------


## malmomike77

> So far I am liking the British Astute Class attack submarine design though


Which ones? Boat 1 to 3 are not the same as Boat 4 which is not the same as Boats 5 to 7  :Smile:

----------


## helge

> Boat 1 to 3 are not the same as Boat 4 which is not the same as Boats 5 to 7


Romanian welders ? 

 :Smile: 

(poor joke, Wilson )

----------


## malmomike77

Navy ditherers  :Smile: 

Design change mid programme is one of the main reasons the UK programmes end up overspending, year after year after year, you get the idea and contractors don't care, delay and change = money and profit.

----------


## Looper

> Which ones? Boat 1 to 3 are not the same as Boat 4 which is not the same as Boats 5 to 7


Interesting stuff. I was not aware of the details of the design evolution.

I have taken a leaf straight out of the AUKUS playbook for my first  prototype. When it comes to nook subs you go big or you go home and this  1/72 scale cute brute bewt is 1 metre in length.

I have also indulged a retro design ethos. I like the way modern cars  are starting to borrow from and pay tribute to the classics so for the  Aussie nookulator I have gone for a classic teardrop profile a-la 1950s  US sub design language of the Skipjack.

The Skipjack was the 2nd class of nooclear sub to be fielded by the US   Navy in 1959. It followed the Skate class, which was inspired by the   original ground breaking Nautilus from 1955. The Skipjack class was the   first to feature the classic, soon-to-be retro-chic, teardrop hull and   took its name from the similarly shaped sandwich filling.


Get the wrong end of this bewt up ya, Winnie - says Roo.

----------


## Looper

*Aukus: Australia's big gamble on the US over China*

By signing the Aukus pact last week, Australia sent a strong message that it was taking the side of the US over China.



It's a definitive move for a country in the Asia-Pacific region, experts say.

The security deal with the US and the UK gives Australia a huge defence upgrade from the world's most powerful military.

But it's a gift with strings attached. And there is debate over whether such a decision - made without public consultation - will play out in Australia's national interests.
Shift from the middle ground

As China has grown in power, it has begun to challenge US dominance in the Asia-Pacific region.

China has built the world's largest navy and has become increasingly assertive over contested areas such as the South China Sea.

Australia had long maintained it didn't have to choose between the two powers, but in recent years its attitude towards Beijing has hardened.

China has been suspected of interfering in Australian politics and of cyber attacks on key institutions.

Tensions were further inflamed last year when Australia called for an investigation into the origins of the coronavirus. A flurry of Chinese sanctions against Australian exports followed.

That was Australia's "a-ha" moment, says John Blaxland, an international security professor at the Australian National University.
Scott Morrison (centre) speaks in a joint virtual press conference with his US and UK counterparts in announcing the Aukus security pact.image source, EPA
image captionAustralian leader Scott Morrison described Aukus as a "forever partnership" that aimed to enhance regional security

"What happened was the dawning realisation that all these things that had proceeded weren't benign," he says. "We were talking about a country that had become surprisingly hostile."

Australia realised it needed to improve its defences - and quickly.


The main advantage

On that front, Aukus is a big coup for the country. The pact will give Australia access to nuclear-powered submarines and long-range missiles from US technology.

"All of this is about giving the Australian Defence Force a capable edge in a region where the capability of our own defence force when matched against China is going backwards," said Richard Maude, a former top Australian security official and now policy director at Asia Society Australia.
An Australian soldier waves to a US navy ship during a joint exercise in the Pacificimage source, ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY
image captionAukus means Australia and the US will work closely together in future maritime operations

In the event of conflict, Australia would for the first time have the ability to strike adversaries from a distance.
What does the US get?

For the US, it's a pretty big deal to share the crown jewels of its defence technology.

But Washington views this "one off" trade as a crucial move in wider efforts to keep China at bay, experts say.
The American and Australian flags projected onto the sails of the Sydney Opera House on 1 September 2021 to mark the 70th anniversary of the Anzus security allianceimage source, Getty Images
image captionThe American and Australian flags were projected onto the Sydney Opera House a few weeks ago to mark the 70th anniversary of the Anzus security alliance

As China projects naval power into the region, Australia's fleet - albeit small and some way off being completed - will be some form of counter alongside roving US forces, they add.

"We're trying to play catch-up by developing a credible deterrence to reduce prospects of war," says Prof Blaxland.

"Because at the moment our deterrence is simply not credible. China can essentially act against us with a degree of impunity. That is becoming politically intolerable."
But what are the disadvantages?

Critics argue Australia has given up its strategic ambiguity and made itself a bigger target because of the pact.

"The way in which it was announced rips away any pretence that Australia was not firmly on the side of containing China militarily," says Prof Allan Gyngell, president of the Australian Institute of International Affairs.

Analysts warn Australia will probably face more economic retaliations from its biggest trading partner.

"The countries were a long way off returning to diplomatic normality and this only exacerbates that," says Dr Lai-Ha Chan from the University of Technology, Sydney.

Others say Aukus also locks Australia in with the US for generations to come.
Australia's Defence Minister Peter Dutton and his US counterpart Lloyd Austin stand in a ceremony outside the Pentagon held for the Australian's visitimage source, Reuters
image captionAustralia's defence minister visited his US counterpart in Washington last week

In the future, Australia may struggle to retain autonomy over decisions in its best interests. It will be reliant on foreign nuclear technology.

"We can't operate the submarines ourselves. So in effect we are ceding some of our sovereignty to the US, and maybe Britain," Prof Gyngell says.

"It will become therefore impossible for the major strike capacity of the Australian navy to operate without a US veto."

He says it also returns Australia to being "a smaller partner in the Anglosphere", despite it making noises in recent times about centring itself in Asia.

"We're hanging out again with the people we're comfortable with, ditching efforts to build closer relations with others in our region," Prof Gyngell says. "That is a problem."
Views in the region

Mr Maude also highlights the risk where South-East Asia will "increasingly feel that Australia regards security of the region as something that can only be managed by other major Western powers."

It's already caused some backlash within the Asean group of 10 South-East Asian nations.

Indonesia has cancelled a meeting with Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison, and Malaysia has warned the pact is a "catalyst for a nuclear arms race".

Analyst James Chin, from the University of Tasmania, says that Aukus "reinforces the idea that the opinions of the Asean members matter little when it comes to the superpowers and how they operate in the region."

That said, some analysts say many smaller Asian nations are happy for the US, UK and Australia to make bold moves.

"In private, the pundits will tell you: 'We think you Australians are clod-hopping, ham-fisted and culturally insensitive but we don't dislike what you're actually doing. We just dislike how you're doing it - we'd like you to talk to us before you do it so we feel more included and appreciated,'" says Prof Blaxland.
The impact on Australia

Most experts say Australia has mishandled its diplomacy around Aukus. It also gravely offended France in reneging on the previous submarine deal.That's a poor sign, experts say, because international relations is as much about diplomacy - as it is about military pacts.It is in Australia's interests - and other democracies - for the US to maintain its dominance in the region, analysts say. But scholars are fundamentally divided on the best way to achieve that.Some say a more cautious approach is needed; more hawkish voices say China won't respond to anything but a show of force.One thing seems certain - we're headed for a period of greater tension."We're used to East Asia being a place of calm in a world. That's no longer going to be true," says Prof Gyngell.

"So foreign policy and defence is going to impinge more on the lives of ordinary Australians than it has in past decades. Things are coming closer to home."

Aukus: Australia'&#39;'s big gamble on the US over China - BBC News

----------


## harrybarracuda

I'm sure the duplicitous frogs throwing their toy out of the pram was considered insignificant.

----------


## helge

> duplicitous


Wow
Is this an english word used on a...daily basis, a test for loose teeth or just a lust for being pretentious ?

Cyrille ?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Wow
> Is this an english word used on a...daily basis, a test for loose teeth or just a lust for being pretentious ?


Sorry your command of English is pitiful at best.

I'd suggest purchasing a dictionary.

----------


## helge

:bananaman: 

Nah

I'll ask Cyrille

----------


## sabang

Interesting to compare Australian partisan political rhetoric, with actual import Consumption:-




*In competition between China and the US, Australian consumers choose China*



_Australia’s relationship with China involves many dimensions and Australia/China relations look a lot different from different perspectives. 


Imports are more interesting.

Imports reflect the choices of millions of Australians as to where they wish to source their purchases. That might include farmers buying farm equipment or teenagers buying smart phones or millions of other scenarios.

So let us go back a bit. In calendar year 1988 Chinese imports were only 2 per cent of all merchandise imports while the US accounted for 21 per cent of Australian imports. So back then when the economists such as those in the Industry Commission (now Productivity Commission) argued for free trade it was American sources that would have been the big beneficiaries, although Japan also loomed large at 20 per cent of Australian merchandise imports.

Indeed, Japan loomed then as the big threat to American industry.


Fast forward to 2021 and a quick look at Australia’s merchandise trade shows that 28 per cent of Australian imports come from China (excluding Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan), compared with 11 per cent from the US, 6 per cent from Japan and every other source is below 5 per cent and mostly well below 5 per cent.

These figures suggest that there are strong market forces that bias Australian purchases towards Chinese supply. If we include the value of Chinese inputs that are converted into exports from Taiwan and Hong Kong, the figure would be so much higher again.

In these import figures we can appreciate the gradual waxing of China as an economic power house and the waning of the US.

_Full Article_- In competition between China and the US, Australian consumers choose China - Pearls and Irritations (johnmenadue.com)

_

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## harrybarracuda

> _strong market forces_


i.e. price.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Interesting to compare Australian partisan political rhetoric, with actual import Consumption:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *In competition between China and the US, Australian consumers choose China*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They do not choose China. quite often there is little choice. The govt has let cheap imports decimate the manufacturing industry here. Australia's anti dumping laws were woefully inadequate in policing govt subsidised imports from Asia and complaints from manufacturers could take 2 or 3 years to resolve, in the meantime the local industry was decimated. The theory that a market based economy can survive on export of services only is not viable. 
China makes much of the cheap white goods and in some cases it has monopolised that industry. In Australia it is almost impossible to buy a kettle a toaster or other small white goods that are not made in China. Even some of the better known American brands are made in China. At least most of my major appliances are european.
China's products have a bad reputation for reliability in Australia and Chinese agression towards Australia has only worsened Australians attitude towards Chinese products. 
The figures may be correct but they dont tell the story. I will buy anywhere but China first and only buy Chinese when nothing is available from anywhere else and most of my friends are the same. It has nothing to do with preference when there is no other choice... A bit like voting for the CCP.

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## sabang

Interesting to compare Hugh's rhetoric to actual import consumption too.  :Smile: 


Then of course, there are exports-


*China hits 48.8pc of Australian exports*


China's share of Australian exports have reached an all-time high, rising to 48.8 per cent and driving the 30th consecutive monthly trade surplus to $8.2 billion.

Official figures showed the exports to China – mainly due to iron ore, especially in the June quarter – reached a record $14.6 billion. Goods exports to China are now worth around 8.5 per cent of Australia's GDP.
China hits 48.8pc of Australian exports (afr.com)


With enemies like that, who needs friends.  ::chitown::

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## Hugh Cow

I wrote a nice long answer but decided there is no point to rebutt your anti australian comments. Enjoy your life in China.

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## sabang

Anti Australian?  :rofl:  Lovin' life in the Lucky Country mate. I just want it to stay that way.

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## harrybarracuda

It does make you wonder why these cheerleaders for genocidal dictators aren't so keen to go and live under their rule.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

----------


## OhOh

Thailand has many "Chinese".

No need to relocate.

The annual meet ups in my own small  village, a Chinese celebration of some importance I believe. Excellent food, drinks, entertainment and company. A very inclusive and tolerant group.

You need to get acquainted with a larger percentage of Thais, 'arry.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Thailand has many "Chinese".
> 
> No need to relocate.
> 
> The annual meet ups in my own small  village, a Chinese celebration of some importance I believe. Excellent food, drinks, entertainment and company. A very inclusive and tolerant group.
> 
> You need to get acquainted with a larger percentage of Thais, 'arry.



Do you all pause from munching on bats to chat about how great it is that you might be getting shitovac hoohoo?

----------


## Latindancer

:smiley laughing:

----------


## sabang

> cheerleaders for genocidal dictators aren't so keen to go and live under their rule.


How's life in Saudi?  ::chitown::

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## harrybarracuda

> How's life in Saudi?


Why are you asking me?

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## Hugh Cow

> Anti Australian?  Lovin' life in the Lucky Country mate. I just want it to stay that way.


And you believe being a pro chinese propagandist and toadying to Chinese agressive behaviour will achieve that. 
There was once a guy named Neville Chamberlain of a similar vain to yourself. That worked well.

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## sabang

^ It did, indeed. Neville Chamberlain knew exactly what he was doing. 

As for the aggressive behaviour of China, this 'existential threat', what exactly? Invading Iraq & Afghanistan? Trying to overthrow any government they don't like? Sorry pal, but the aggressive behaviour this century ain't coming from China. That's just the plain truth.

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## Hugh Cow

Sorry pal, but the aggressive behaviour this century ain't coming from China. 

Tibet? Uigyars, Hong kong South China sea Vietnam, the indian border Taiwan, Miltary runways on reefs? Threatening vietnamese and Philippine fisherman?  So sorry my mistake

----------


## Hugh Cow

Also a special thanks to LD for pointing out I should've spelt vane vein. It's so important we have people on TD that can point out these horrendous spelling mistakes. I'm surprised I didnt here from Cyrille on such a momentous mistake. Maybe he is waiting until his eyes stop bleeding.
 Thanks again LD. I am so grateful words fail me.
Wat wood TD doo witout peeple such as yoarself spendeing there evry wakeing momant going ovver every tedios werd of evry poste too make shore their arre know speling erors to horify tha reeders ande takeing tyme oute ov there bizy daiy to tel theam there missteaks.
 Sum mite saye a nit piking prik butt I saye neigh, ewe arr a Pronce among men. 
Oh dear, I think I missspelt Prince, I seem to have added a surplus r.

----------


## sabang

This is a quality article, from ABC's Stan Grant.



*The US and China are preparing for war — and Australia is caught in the crosshairs*


Every year China celebrates a victory over the United States. We know it as the Korean War, the Chinese call it the "War to Resist American Aggression and Aid Korea".
When Mao Zedong's People's Volunteer Army turned back the US Eighth Army in December 1950, it inflicted what is still known today as the longest retreat in American military history.
The battle of Ch'ongch'on has taken on even more significance as the drum beat sounds louder of another conflict between China and the US.
Last year, at the 70th anniversary of China's triumph, Xi Jinping warned the Chinese people "the road ahead will not be smooth". He called on people to revive the spirit of the Korean War, to "speak to invaders in the language they know … to use war to prevent war".
Simply: tell the Americans that China is not afraid, it was victorious once, and will be again.

China, Xi said, won "with less steel and more spirit". The forces of China and North Korea, he said, "defeated their armed to teeth rival and shattered the myth of invincibility of the US Army".
Korea is known as the "forgotten war". America and allies prefer to commemorate FWorld War I and II victories. But in China, the battle of Ch'ongch'on is as revered as D-Day.
A Chinese state media opinion piece last year warned the US that victory in Korea "is a reminder that China has never been afraid".

*War was once unthinkable*

Make no mistake: we are now in a phase of preparation for war. China is becoming more aggressive in tone and actions, while the US is strengthening its regional alliances.
War that was once unthinkable is now improbable — but not impossible. Since the US declared China a "strategic competitor" in 2017, tension has heightened.


America and China have already fought a trade war; they are waging war in cyberspace and there are red lines that could trigger a full-blown confrontation.
China's Communist Party mouthpiece Global Times last year warned the US not to "play with fire". The editorial cautioned America to stay out of China's "core interests".
Those core interests are the disputed islands of the South China Sea — now claimed and militarised by China — and Taiwan.
President Xi has committed himself to reuniting the island with the China Mainland by force if necessary.
Xi cannot back down and the US cannot be made to look weak lest it relinquish its regional dominance. As the Chinese say: two tigers cannot live on the same mountain.

*Any conflict would 'get worse before it gets worse'*

Harvard University military historian Graham Allison says any conflict would "get worse before it gets worse", meaning it will escalate to drag in countries throughout the Indo-Pacific, perhaps even globally.
The author of the book Destined for War, Allison says it could become a nuclear war.
Australia is in the crosshairs of this new great power rivalry: on one side the US, our key strategic ally, and on the other our biggest trading partner, China.
Gone is the idea that we don't have to choose. Australia has chosen the US. We are paying a price with a deteriorating relationship with China and our exporters are suffering.


Australia has updated its defence strategic outlook boosting military spending by $270 billion over the next decade. It's a reflection of an increasingly hostile outlook.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison has characterised this moment as one "that is poorer, that is more dangerous and that is more disorderly".
The so-called Quad grouping — Australia, India, Japan and US — is stepping up its cooperation to try to contain or thwart China's ambitions and increasing aggressiveness.
The Quad has been widely praised as an example of a resurgent democratic alliance in Asia. Yet questions remain, particularly about India and Japan.

*Questions about the quad*

Tokyo has so far successfully (more successfully than Australia) managed its relationship with China, its biggest trading partner — despite historic enmity and ongoing territorial disputes.
Japan has avoided the types of trade bans China has applied to Australia. Would it risk its interests to defend Australia?
Of course, Japan is closely aligned to the US. But there are those who have questioned America's resolve and in recent years — particularly under former Prime Minister Abe — there has been a push for Japan to reform its pacifist constitution and strengthen its military posture.
And what of India? It clashed with China last year along their disputed border, with casualties on both sides. It has a long history of remaining non-aligned. It faces a nuclear armed hostile neighbour, Pakistan, that has close ties with China.


India faces much more immediate and perilous threats than Australia. Would it stay the course if tensions escalate?
And, in seeking to counter China, we excuse the worst aspects of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modhi. An autocratic figure once banned from entering the US who promotes Hindu nationalism, he is accused of suppressing the votes of Muslims and other minorities and winding back media freedom.
India and Japan also pursue their own international relationships and have close ties to countries hostile to the US.
India has relied on Russia as its biggest weapons supplier and tacitly supported Vladimir Putin's annexation of Crimea.
Delhi has brokered its own trilateral arrangement with Moscow and Tokyo in part to assuage Russian concern about the Quad.
Japan has maintained strong relations with Iran, something it shares with China.


*A 'realist view' of the world order*

The Quad is not as air-tight as its champions may want us to believe.
To China, the Quad is a Cold War-style bloc. It appears as a 20th century solution — maintaining US hegemony — to a 21st century problem of incorporating and balancing rising Chinese authoritarian power. Clearly this is an historical moment that, as history reminds us, if mishandled can end in disaster.


The emergence of big powers unsettles the world. Britain's empire was built on brutal colonisation and war, including war with China.
American imperialism came with annexing territory in the Pacific and the Caribbean, claiming places like Hawaii, the Philippines, Guam and American Samoa.
We should not be surprised at China's territorial claims or its aggression. The ruthless excesses of Xi Jinping can't be ignored and nations like Australia are right to defend their interests.
So, what to do?
Former Australian prime minister, China diplomat and now head of the Asia Society think tank, Kevin Rudd, has set out an argument for what he calls "managed strategic competition". Rudd calls it a "realist view" of the world order.
He writes: "It accepts that states will continue to seek security by building a balance of power in their favour … The trick in this case is to reduce the risk to both sides as the competition between them unfolds by jointly crafting a limited number of rules of the road that will help prevent war."
Rudd concedes this is easier said than done, given "the near complete erosion of trust". He's echoing the sentiment of another former prime minister, Paul Keating, who in a speech in 2014 asked if it was time to build a new strategic order.
American power was no longer uncontested, Keating argued, and China's rise was undeniable. The problem, he said, was that both China and America had deeply divergent views of regional power and negotiation had not yet truly begun.


*So it remains in 2021*

What we have instead is hawkish talk of war, a military build-up, and Cold War alliances. The battle of Ch'ongch'on 70 years ago can be seen today as a harbinger of American decline.
What followed was war and retreat in Vietnam, endless conflict in Afghanistan — where the Taliban remains entrenched, the folly of the invasion of Iraq that removed a brutal dictator in Saddam Hussein but left a destabilised, ravaged country ripe for terrorist insurgency like Islamic State, financial crisis, deep social and political division and the upheaval and trauma of the Trump presidency.
For all America's economic and military might, it is a deeply damaged nation seeking to recapture its former glory in a world where it meets a rival of enormous and growing strength.
China remembers the Korean War while America tries to forget it. The ghosts of wars past are stirring again.
Yet there is another lesson of history: America helped open up China; its markets made China rich.
China even at its most bellicose and belligerent knows war with America would be catastrophic.
The two nations have been better as "friends" than "enemies".

The US and China are preparing for war — and Australia is caught in the crosshairs - ABC News

----------


## Latindancer

> Also a special thanks to LD for pointing out I should've spelt vane vein. It's so important we have people on TD that can point out these horrendous spelling mistakes. I'm surprised I didnt here from Cyrille on such a momentous mistake. Maybe he is waiting until his eyes stop bleeding.
>  Thanks again LD. I am so grateful words fail me.
> Wat wood TD doo witout peeple such as yoarself spendeing there evry wakeing momant going ovver every tedios werd of evry poste too make shore their arre know speling erors to horify tha reeders ande takeing tyme oute ov there bizy daiy to tel theam there missteaks.
>  Sum mite saye a nit piking prik butt I saye neigh, ewe arr a Pronce among men. 
> Oh dear, I think I missspelt Prince, I seem to have added a surplus r.



I'm so happy you appreciate's my eagles eye, but when peeple substitute wurds' with others' which sound the same but are spelt differently, it makes my eye's go all googly, and my brain's to lock up slightly.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> This is a quality article, from ABC's Stan Grant.


This is more drivel that essentially says Australia should shut up about Chinkystan's human rights record, predatory lending tactics and parasitic sucking dry of global resources.

But then I see Stan is quite partial to blowing the chinky cock for cash occasionally.

----------


## sabang

I'm sure the viewer is quite capable of reading and deciding for themself 'arry. But OK, 'arry says Stan Grants article is drivel. Like, oh dear.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I'm sure the viewer is quite capable of reading and deciding for themself 'arry. But OK, 'arry says Stan Grants article is drivel. Like, oh dear.


As the saying goes, "A picture paints a thousand words".

The words could be "Stan sucks chinky cock for cash" repeated a lot.

Or it could be "Stan sucks Big Coal cock for cash", one doesn't want to be too specific.

 :bananaman: 


Added: Of course it's just occurred to me that by brown-nosing one, he can get cheques from both of them.

----------


## sabang

Australia is set to suffer great losses in its energy trade with China, as China now reportedly seeks to lock in long-term liquefied natural gas (LNG) supplies from the US, following the recent power crunch caused by surging coal prices.

At least five Chinese firms, including oil giant Sinopec Corp and China National Offshore Oil Co (CNOOC), are in discussions with US exporters, mainly Cheniere Energy and Venture Global, about potential LNG deals, Reuters reported, citing anonymous sources.

Sinopec alone could be eyeing 4 million tons annually, the report said. 

If the reported deals were to materialize, Australia, a main LNG supplier for China, will stand to lose, analysts said. 

"It is obvious that Australia suffered great losses as an energy source for China," Lin Boqiang, director of the China Center for Energy Economics Research at Xiamen University, told the Global Times on Sunday. 

As diplomatic tension has a big impact on trade, "it is natural for China to diversify LNG imports, for example, buying more from the US after its relations with Australia froze," Lin noted. 

According to statistics from Chinese customs, China imported 5.4 million tons of LNG from the US from January to August, skyrocketing 375 percent compared with the same period in 2020. 

By comparison, China bought 20.5 million tons of LNG from Australia in the first eight months, similar to the level of 19.1 million tons last year. 

Australia loses as China reportedly buys more US LNG - Global Times



Not like they're rubbing it in, right? That would be beneath them.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Punishment for having to use that coal is it?

 :rofl:

----------


## panama hat

> *After waging a trade war for over a year, China now begs Australia for its entry into CPTPP*
> China has finally come to terms with the fact that it is not all that mighty which it has believed itself to be. After having waged a failed economic and trade war against Australia, the Communist nation of China is back to begging for a seat on the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, and Canberra holds the key to Beijing’s fortunes now. China stands isolated today. The only negotiations it is having are with countries who owe it money but do not have the means to pay back. The world simply reposes no trust in China, and domestically, the red rogue country is seething with a colourful variety of problems which range from a disgruntled populace to a shaky economy and a hostile environment for businesses. 
> To improve its geopolitical standing, China now desperately wants to be part of regional economic blocs which matter. In line with the same, China is lobbying the Australian government for its support to join a multilateral regional trade pact called the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership or the CPTPP. The CPTPP is an 11-nation trade agreement among Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam.


After waging a trade war for over a year, China now begs Australia for its entry into CPTPP

----------


## panama hat

> *China is shutting down Aluminium, Textile and many more industries*
> 
> 
> China is losing the most basic necessity of human civilisation- electricity. Till now, we only knew how the Chinese steel mills, aluminum manufacturing and power sector may be suffering in lack of thermal coal. However, Chinas power woes could be much bigger and brutal than what we imagined.
> Javier Blas, Chief Energy Correspondent at Bloomberg News, tweeted, CHINA ENERGY CRUNCH: The electricity shortages in China are worsening, and widening geographically. Its getting so bad Beijing is now asking some food processors (like soybean crushing plants) to shut down. A report says, from aluminum smelters to textiles producers and soybean processing plants, factories are being ordered to curb activity or  in some instances  shut altogether.


Electricity shortage : China is shutting down Aluminum, Textile industries

----------


## sabang

^ TFI- The Frustrated Indian. Good find actually, it is a distinctly anti-Chinese propaganda site from India. I've added it to my favourites.  :Smile: 

Some other TFI gems-

Charlie Munger - investment in Alibaba suggests that Xi is going down (tfiglobalnews.com)
The Battle at Lake Changjin: Propaganda movie that aims to shore up the support for the PLA among the Chinese (tfiglobalnews.com)
China begs foreign investors to rethink their grand exit (tfiglobalnews.com)

----------


## panama hat

^ Quality stuff to rival China's propaganda

----------


## Little Chuchok

> ^ Quality stuff to rival China's propaganda


Yep, but they don't come close...

----------


## Looper

*Australia attacks China's policy of economic punishment at the WTO, accuses it of contravening rules*

Australian diplomats have used a regular international review of China's trade policies to blast Beijing's campaign of economic punishment against Australia, warning its behaviour could drive away trading partners and undermine international confidence in China.


Key points:

    Australia's WTO representative has explicitly accused China of imposing restrictions on goods in political retaliation

    The new comments may signal Australia is willing to leverage its position as a signatory of the CPTPP

    The Australia-China relationship remains hostile after disputes over trade, political interference, and COVID-19's origins

China's government has hit a range of Australian goods  including barley, wine, timber, lobsters, cotton and coal  with both formal and informal sanctions, including crippling tariffs, import suspensions and long delays at customs.

In an unusually forceful statement, Australia's representative to the World Trade Organisation, George Mina, said China had "increasingly tested global trade rules" with its behaviour and that Australia was one of "numerous WTO members" who had faced disruptive measures from the Chinese government.

Mr Mina said that China's tactics included "arbitrary border inspections", "unwarranted delays" on import licences and "the imposition of anti-dumping and countervailing duties" which had "severely limited or ended" trade across more than a dozen Australian commodities.

"The implications of China's actions go beyond their impact on Australian exporters  they raise the risk and uncertainty of the China market for the global business community," his statement reads.

"By undermining agreed trade rules China also undermines the multilateral trading system on which all WTO members rely."

    "China has assured members of its commitment to the rules based order; but from our viewpoint there is a growing gap between China's rhetoric and its actions," it says.

China's trade war backfire
A graphic image of a puzzle with the Chinese and Australian flag imprinted, some missing pieces

Much to the chagrin of the Beijing bureaucracy, Australian trade is booming, driving a rapid turnaround from the COVID-inspired crunch that crippled the global economy last year, writes Ian Verrender.
Read more

Mr Mina also explicitly accused China of imposing the restrictions on Australian goods in retaliation for political disputes, saying there was a "growing body of evidence" that its actions were "motivated by political considerations."

He quoted Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian, who earlier this year said that Australia would not be able to "reap benefits" from doing business with China while "groundlessly accusing and smearing China."

Mr Mina also said there were "credible reports" that Chinese authorities had instructed importers not to purchase certain products, which was "contrary to WTO rules."
A 'name and shame campaign'

Jeffrey Wilson from the Perth USAsia Centre said Australian officials were using the WTO Trade Policy Review to target China's grey-zone trade punishments by "calling a spade a spade" in a "classic name and shame campaign."

    "By so forcefully making this statement in Geneva, Australia is saying this is no longer a bilateral issue. Rather, it cuts to whether China is a compliant member of the WTO, and the negative impacts this has on the integrity of a rules-based global trade system," Mr Wilson said.

"By re-framing this as being about China's behaviour as a rule-abiding member of the global economy, it allows Australia to marshal an international coalition against its coercive trade practices."
Former prime minister Tony Abbott speaks at an event next to Taiwan's president Tsai Ing-wen, October 2021.
Remarks made by former prime minister Tony Abbott in Taiwan upset Chinese officials.(Reuters: Central News Agency/File photo)

While the Chinese government hasn't substantially escalated its campaign of trade punishment this year, the Australia-China relationship remains mired in hostility.

Australian Ministers are still being denied access to their Chinese counterparts, and Beijing recently stoked fresh suspicion in Canberra by suspending trade with a ninth Australian abattoir, citing chemical contamination.

Earlier this month, former prime minister Tony Abbott also drew a furious response from the mainland when he gave a speech in Taiwan accusing Chinese authorities of bullying and intimidating the self-ruled island.

The Chinese Embassy called Mr Abbott a "failed and pitiful" figure, while Chinese state media warned that "the worst is probably yet to come" in the Australia-China relationship because politicians in Canberra were "increasingly hostile" towards Beijing.

However, power shortages seem to have forced Chinese authorities to relax their informal ban on Australian coal imports.
Australia leverages its position

Mr Mina's comments may also signal that Australia is willing to use its position as a signatory of the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) to press Beijing to cease its campaign of economic coercion.
The battle of global superpowers
Chinese President Xi Jinping waves from the sunroof of a car as he addresses a military parade in China.

China is a great power and demands to be treated as such. It is clearly not a democracy but that doesn't mean its rise is not legitimate. So, what do we do about it?
Read more

China's government has declared it wants to join the CPTPP  a free trade agreement which encompasses Australia and several other Pacific rim nations.

But Australia, along with the other 10 countries which have signed the pact, would have to agree to kickstart negotiations before Beijing could join.

The government has not ruled out backing China's bid, but Trade Minister Dan Tehan has made it clear that Australia would only enter discussions on the subject at a ministerial level, which would force Beijing to drop its undeclared ban on top-level meetings between the two countries.

Mr Tehan also said that CPTPP members would have to be confident that countries wanting to join would "implement and adhere to the high standards of the agreement" as well as demonstrating "a track record of compliance with its commitments in the WTO and existing trade agreements."

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2021-10-21/australia-wto-blasts-china-economic-punishment-retaliation/100555410

----------


## harrybarracuda

The chinkies are trying to blackmail the convicts into letting them into the CPTPP.

This is where Biden should step in.

It would be hilarious seeing the chinkies lose their shit.

----------


## panama hat

> Mr Tehan also said that CPTPP members would have to be confident that countries wanting to join would "implement and adhere to the high standards of the agreement" as well as demonstrating "a track record of compliance with its commitments in the WTO and existing trade agreements."


That's China fu@ked then

----------


## sabang

> its behaviour could drive away trading partners


Yes orrstralia, quite so.  ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

Oh dear, the chinkies might have to put the convicts on the back burner for a while. Some new dummy spitting required.





> BRUSSELS, Oct 21 (Reuters) - The European Union must deepen ties with Taiwan and start work on an investment deal with the island, EU lawmakers said in a resolution adopted on Thursday, angering Beijing, whose similar deal with the EU struck in 2020 has been put on ice.
> The European Parliament in the French city of Strasbourg, with a majority of 580 to 26 votes, backed the non-binding resolution requesting the bloc's executive European Commission "urgently begin an impact assessment, public consultation and scoping exercise on a bilateral investment agreement".
> The lawmakers also demanded the bloc's trade office in Taipei to be renamed the European Union office in Taiwan, in effect upgrading the mission though neither the EU nor its member states have formal diplomatic ties with Taiwan, which China claims as its own territory.
> Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin offered "strong condemnation".
> 
> "The EU parliament should immediately stop words and actions that undermine China's sovereignty and territorial integrity," he told reporters in Beijing.
> Taiwan's Foreign Ministry expressed thanks for the support, saying the resolution will "set a new milestone" for its ties with the bloc.
> Military tensions between China and Taiwan have increased, with Taipei saying Beijing will be capable of mounting a "full scale" invasion of the island by 2025.
> The EU added Taiwan to its list of trade partners eligible for an investment deal in 2015, but has not held talks with the democratically ruled island on the issue since then, although Taipei is keen on striking an agreement.
> ...


EU lawmakers push for closer ties with Taiwan, drawing Chinese anger | Reuters

----------


## sabang

Australia's closest security allies, led by the United States, have been the biggest beneficiaries of Beijing's campaign of economic coercion against Canberra, a report has found.

More than 18 months after China kicked off the trade war against Australia amid a series of spats between the two countries, the University of Technology Sydney found it was Canberra's partners who were picking up much of the slack.

UTS's Australia-China Relations Institute has released figures that show the value of 12 Australian exports to China affected by sanctions fell by $US12.6 billion ($17.3b) in the first nine months of this year compared with 2019.

During the same period, the value of US exports of the same commodities increased by $US4.6 billion ($6.3 billion), while those of Canada and New Zealand jumped by $US1.1b and $US786 million, respectively.

Insitute director James Laurenceson said the data showed Australia's pursuit of closer security ties with the US and other western democracies was not stopping its allies from capitalising on its trade predicament.

"Of course, the US is our great security ally and strategic mate," Dr Laurenceson said.

"Sometimes we get very excited by US-based commentators, and indeed senior Biden officials, saying, 'We will stand shoulder to shoulder with Australia.'

"But actually when you dig into the trade data, the United States is the country that's stealing more Australian sales in China than any other country.

"So strategic friends can be fierce commercial rivals and that's exactly what we're seeing."

*Australia bears costs 'alone'*

Over several months from May 2020, Australian exporters were hit with a series of crippling trade strikes by Beijing over grievances that included "siding with the US' anti-China campaign".

Among the industries affected by the measures were coal, barley, beef, timber, lobster and wine.

The university found that in some cases, the value of the targeted trades fell to zero, while in many other cases exports were reduced dramatically.

Dr Laurenceson said the actions of the US and other Australian allies were understandable and in the national interests of those countries.

But he said it was imperative Australia faced up to the cost of its own actions, which he argued had been hidden by record prices for iron ore, the country's biggest export to China.

He said the university's analysis had shown that despite the increasingly popular belief that western economies were "decoupling" from a bloc led by China, the numbers suggested otherwise.

"I'm not suggesting we should back down because Beijing threatens us," he said.

"But what I am suggesting is that we should be very clear on what the costs are and who is bearing those costs — and it is Australia and Australian producers alone."

*Trade flows 'not coordinated'*

Perth USAsia Centre research director Jeffrey Wilson said any increase in sales by the US and other allies to China was coincidental rather than coordinated.

He said companies traded with each other, not governments.

"What we've seen since China's trade sanctions against Australia is a great reordering of who trades with whom," Dr Wilson said.

"It's a little bit like when you dam a river in a complex river system, the water finds other ways to flow complexly around the barrier you put in place.

"And so what we're really seeing is international commercial businesses and markets adjusting around that dam wall between Australia and China, basically on commercial grounds."

Dr Wilson noted countries not regarded as Australia's allies, such as Russia, had also benefited from the trade row by increasing the sales of goods such as coal, which highlighted the unpredictable nature of the fallout.

He argued that a bigger issue at play was China's refusal to play by the rules of global trade.

"It's not the role of government to tell companies who they should sell to," Dr Wilson said.

"But it is the role of government to enforce global rules, and so much of the Australia-US discussion is on that basis.

"At no point does Australia ask the US to stop selling things to other countries — our request is that we work together to ensure China complies with a set of international rules it agreed to … and over the last 18 months has felt simply doesn't apply in its dealing with Australia."

*'Don't have to sell your soul'*

At Pingrup, a grain growing town 355 kilometres south-east of Perth, Doug Smith's barley harvest is well underway.

WA is expecting a record barley crop of 5.3 million tonnes.

Up until last year, much of the crop would have been bound for the world's most lucrative barley market — China.

But after Beijing blacklisted Australia's barley exports, Mr Smith said the grain was destined for other markets that paid much less.

"Most of our barley now goes into probably the cheapest barley market in the world, which is the Saudi feed market," Mr Smith said.

"And just at the moment we're seeing a major disparity between the prices we're getting paid as growers in WA and what the international price for feed barley actually is.

"We're seeing disparity of around $140 [a tonne]."

Days after Defence Minister Peter Dutton suggested Taiwan could be the first domino to fall in a campaign by Beijing to dominate the Indo-Pacific region, Mr Smith said he hoped Australia could find a better balance in its relations with China.

"Other countries have shown that you don't actually have to sell your soul to do business and I think you need to be able to negotiate something that's fair," he said.

"I think there is still room for that.

"It's probably not quite at that stage, but I'm hoping that we're getting closer to some more common sense."

US, allies 'biggest beneficiaries' of Australia's $17b China trade row, report finds (msn.com)




*China's tariffs are squeezing the life out of the Australian wine industry's most lucrative market*


*Key points:*


Wine exports to mainland China have dropped from 121 million litres to 10 million litresThe pandemic, storms and a global shipping crisis have made developing new markets difficultThe UK is now Australia's largest market by volume and value


_Wine imports from Australia declined by 88 million litres in the 12 months to September, with only 55 million litres picked up through increased imports from other countries._ 
_"I think that could be attributed to the fact that people are actually drinking more Chinese wine; they do have a significant amount of vineyards in China," Ms Triggs said.
_
_The main countries to capitalise on Australia's gap in the market are Chile and Spain, whose wine imports come at a much lower average price. _ China's tariffs are squeezing the life out of the Australian wine industry's most lucrative market - ABC News

----------


## harrybarracuda

*Key points:



Wine exports to mainland China have dropped from 121 million litres to 10 million litresThe pandemic, storms and a global shipping crisis have made developing new markets difficultThe UK is now Australia's largest market by volume and value​The chinkies are a bunch of whiny snowflakes
*

----------


## sabang

Anyway, now $20 for 2 good sized lobster tails at Aldi! That's less than half last years price. I bet the local Chinese are lapping them up.  :Smile: 

The wine producers are not as generous- I guess they can hang on to stock for a while. But still decent bargains to be had.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Ex Australian naval officer too, and obviously an aussie citizen. Somehow can't imagine you ever did time in the Armed forces of any country!


Oh FFS. Did you hurt your back pointing at some swabie to pull in a refugee from a boat or something? It's been a long time since the Australian Navy was a dangerous occupation. There is more deaths in the construction industry in Australia in one year than there has been in the entire navy since WW2.  
Noone should object to an alternate opinion, whether one agrees with you or not. But there is a difference between an alternative objective view and a full time pro China OHOH replacement propagandist and as such you now have about as much credibility as he does. 
There are many here who have pointed out mistakes by the USAand its allies, including myself and they are many and varied. Here's a few to give you and OhOh a warm fuzzy feeling. Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan Abhu Grav, Rendition, Bay of Pigs, Cuba, Guantanamo Bay, UN convention on mines, cluster bombs, torture, all their fuck ups and shady dealings with South American dictators etc, etc. All of which shows they are very,very far from perfect.
In saying that, If anyone thinks the world would be better off with a rising China and Russia and a weak and ineffective USA to counter them, they are delusional. The EU doesnt have the balls to do it and besides, they're to busy deciding whether the white porcelain toilets bowls in the parliamentary bog maybe a product of european patriarchal white supremacist culture or not.

----------


## sabang

TBH my basic underlying point is that it is now effectively a Bipolar world order, nothing you can do about that uncle sam, so learn to live with it. Or split the world in two- and be stuck with the slow growth part. Don't be like my parents generation, lamenting the glories of yesterdays lost Empire. And calling the yanks colonials!  :Smile: 

From the PoV of the rest of us, is that necessarily such a bad thing? Is a monopoly of power necessarily a good thing? Has US foreign policy this century been particularly enlightened, or successful to date? Anyway, whatever your viewpoint on that- it changes nothing. It is what it is- why exist in the previous century?


And I will have you know I suffered quite a serious ankle injury while jogging as a naval officer. Almost as dangerous as jogging while black in amerka!

----------


## Looper

> Anyway, now $20 for 2 good sized lobster tails at Aldi!


I never ever go into scummy Aldi except that I was tempted by your tale of $20 tails

I go in to the gypsy shit pit tonight and lo and behold they are actually $29 and they are also out of stock



Well deserved red cent

----------


## sabang

Oh, for shame. $19.99 here in Sth Oz- but that is probably to do with the fact the southern rock lobster comes from here.   :Smile:

----------


## Hugh Cow

> TBH my basic underlying point is that it is now effectively a Bipolar world order, nothing you can do about that uncle sam, so learn to live with it. Or split the world in two- and be stuck with the slow growth part. Don't be like my parents generation, lamenting the glories of yesterdays lost Empire. And calling the yanks colonials! 
> 
> From the PoV of the rest of us, is that necessarily such a bad thing? Is a monopoly of power necessarily a good thing? Has US foreign policy this century been particularly enlightened, or successful to date? Anyway, whatever your viewpoint on that- it changes nothing. It is what it is- why exist in the previous century?
> 
> 
> And I will have you know I suffered quite a serious ankle injury while jogging as a naval officer. Almost as dangerous as jogging while black in amerka!


I think it is you that is missing the point. The failure to stand up to autocratic regimes/dictatorships has ended in catastrophic wars. The theory that cooperation and trade with China would eventually bring about peaceful democratic change has been disproven. Gradual financial isolation may not bring change but it will limit Chinas' ability to harm and interfere in other nation states. Likewise Russia. If the EU had weened themselves off of Russian Gas and other trade years ago Russia would not be the problem it is today. It is ludicrous for the EU to be buying from the very country that is its' biggest threat. Financial isolation is a blunt instrument and often hurts ordinary people but it is infinitely better than war. Change must come from within and gradual change is generally better. It will only happen when the people realise their problems caused by economic isolation are due to their own governments and hold them to account.

----------


## sabang

> Gradual financial isolation may not bring change but it will limit Chinas' ability to harm and interfere in other nation states


Excuse me Hugh, but who exactly is meddling in other nation states this century? Should we bring sanctions against the USA then, and 'economically isolate' them? Not to mention the ankle biters that accompany them on these military invasions?

----------


## OhOh

> Jeffrey Wilson from the Perth USAsia Centre said *Australian officials were using the WTO Trade Policy* Review to target China's grey-zone trade punishments by "calling a spade a spade" in a "classic name and shame campaign."


How many wins has OZ had against China, in the WTO court?

Many countries try and fail, some win.

Unfortunately, due to NaGastani problems, there are not many WTO judges and consequently any disputes await years to be decided.




> Much to the chagrin of the Beijing bureaucracy, *Australian trade is booming*, driving a rapid turnaround from the COVID-inspired crunch that crippled the global economy last year, writes Ian Verrender.


As for OZ GDP, far from growing, it's currently, December 2021, in a shrinking phase:

*Australia GDP Growth Rate*

----------


## OhOh

> If the EU had weened themselves off of Russian Gas and other trade years ago Russia would not be the problem it is today.


That was the plan, unfortunately the EU left the previously agreed price mechanism, on a 5 yearly contract, to choose the financially manipulated spot market. 

They dropped their existing proven methods to keep their citizens warm, their factories humming and allowed others to cause the NS2 pipeline to be sanctioned and slowed downed.

Coupled with the assumption that alternate supplies would be available. As some suggested they had an alternative supply to fill the void. In addition, their adopted energy supply technologies have failed to provide the expected solution.

As another NaGastani vassal, OZ GDP losses were NaGastani's gains, has found to its cost, the alternate supplies are not available due to their source preferring greater profits from Asia as opposed to assisting their vassals in Europe.




> It is ludicrous for the EU to be buying from the very country that *is its' biggest threat*.


Who that threat is, is questionable.

----------


## sabang

Australia's supply chain is at risk of collapsing next month as a shortage of a Chinese-made chemical stops diesel trucks from even starting.
Half of Australia's long-haul truck fleet has a diesel engine and without sufficient supplies of the environmental additive urea, essential transport is likely to be grounded.
A transport crisis could spark a new round of panic buying reminiscent of the run on toilet paper seen during the early days of the pandemic in 2020. 
Diesel SUVs and utes would also be unable to move without the substance used to reduce the amount of pollutant nitric oxidex going into the atmosphere. 

Australia's top-selling vehicle the Ford Ranger is only available as a diesel, highlighting how many owners of utes and popular four-wheel drives could be stranded during this summer holiday season.


*What is urea?*

Urea is commonly used as a fertiliser but a more refined version is added to diesel engines to reduce nitric oxidex exhaust fumes
This diesel exhaust fuel is marketed in Australia as AdBlue containing 32 per cent urea and 68 per cent de-ionised water
The product, injected into the exhaust system, is used in diesel cars along with civil construction and farming machinery
China supplies 80 per cent of the Asia-Pacific region's diesel-grade urea
Source: National Road Transport Association 


China's authorities have this year suspended the export of urea phosphate, which is mainly used as a fertiliser, to contain food prices.
Australia only has eight weeks' of supply left but there are fears it could run out well before then, with China providing 80 per cent of supplies in the Asia-Pacific region.
Chemical manufacturer Incitec Pivot was Australia's only urea maker but its Brisbane plant is closing in 2022 and Daily Mail Australia understands urea is no longer produced at Gibson Island as the factory is repurposed.
The situation is so bad the National Road Transport Association is holding crisis talks with Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce's office on Friday afternoon.
The group's Warren Clark said a urea shortage would have far-reaching implications for the economy.
'Our industry isn't the only one that will be affected, but we will be hit first and hardest,' he said. 
Shaws Darwin Transport managing director Allan Thornley, a board member of the National Road Transport Association, said all trucks less than five years' old would be grounded without sufficient urea supplies.
'We've got no transport service, your entire supply network collapses,' he told Melbourne radio 3AW broadcaster Neil Mitchell. 
'All late model trucks use the additive.


'It's been in trucks for the last 10 years, and pretty much mandatory on every heavy vehicle for the last five, so any truck that's less than the five years' old you would safely say won't be able to run.'
China supplies more than 80 per cent of urea in the Asia-Pacific region and the Communist government's export ban means Australia has only eight weeks' of supply left.
Mr Thornley, a former president of the National Road Transport Association, said Australia's supplies were likely to run out next month.
'We're told no supplies after the end of January,' Mr Thornley said.
Australia's supply chain could COLLAPSE next month because of China (msn.com)


I can hear it now-

_"Hey China, me old friend, can you help us out a bit, your digger mates down unda? We gotta real problem here."

"Hey, China. Hello. Are you there?"

"Anyone listening?"

"Helloooo......"_

........................................


Ain't payback Hell.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Good. Everyone is trying to get away from diesel.

----------


## sabang

Pretty high level, frantic stuff going on in the corridors of power here. I'm certainly not anti switching away from diesel, but that will take several years.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Australia is set to suffer great losses in its energy trade with China, as China now reportedly seeks to lock in long-term liquefied natural gas (LNG) supplies from the US, following the recent power crunch caused by surging coal prices.
> 
> At least five Chinese firms, including oil giant Sinopec Corp and China National Offshore Oil Co (CNOOC), are in discussions with US exporters, mainly Cheniere Energy and Venture Global, about potential LNG deals, Reuters reported, citing anonymous sources.
> 
> Sinopec alone could be eyeing 4 million tons annually, the report said. 
> 
> If the reported deals were to materialize, Australia, a main LNG supplier for China, will stand to lose, analysts said. 
> 
> "It is obvious that Australia suffered great losses as an energy source for China," Lin Boqiang, director of the China Center for Energy Economics Research at Xiamen University, told the Global Times on Sunday. 
> ...


You do know that its 6000 nautical miles to the west coast and approx 16 shipping days to China as opposed to 3000 nautical miles and 9 days from Australia depending on departure port? 
Shipping costs alone will more than double let alone the dramatic increase in inventory costs due to lead times. The USA went from 1.5 million tons of LNG to 5.4 tons whilst Australia went from 19.1 to 20.5 million tons or four times the quantity. 
The USA has in fact only about 10% over capacity in regard to production v domestic consumption, which is very little excess gas capacity (by my maths approx 10 million tons) and it actually has to import gas. The reason is shipping LNG between American ports requires the ships to be built in America with American crews which is very expensive as bulk tankers require cryogenic tankers for LNG shipping and are very expensive to build, therefore it is cheaper to export and import foreign LNG with foreign tankers and crew to make up the shortfall. In short, the USA is not currently capable of replacing Australian exports let alone find the required number of tankers to do so. 
Nth African production has decline by approx 50%, as is their supply to Europe and their is a current shortage of gas pushing up worldwide prices, especially in Europe. 
 Your vigour in ingratiating yourself with all things Chinese has robbed you of any ability to critically analyse what you read, especially from a well know Chinese government rag, which is tailor made for Chinese propangandists and the gullible.

----------


## sabang

Well if we ignore the usual antichink stuff, that was actually quite an interesting post. So a very general but pertinent question- why are australian shipping/ transport costs so damn high?  ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Well if we ignore the usual antichink stuff, that was actually quite an interesting post. So a very general but pertinent question- why are australian shipping/ transport costs so damn high?


Probably the same reason as they are for everyone else: Demand is exceeding supply.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Well if we ignore the usual antichink stuff, that was actually quite an interesting post. So a very general but pertinent question- why are australian shipping/ transport costs so damn high?


Fuel costs and lack of available shipping and crews, and a huge lack of containers combined with an increase in online shopping due to covid 19 is much of the reason for shipping cost increases that have pushed 40' container prices up from around $2000 pre covid to double or triple depending on destination. If a worlwide CO2 tax is placed on Bunker oil about the dirtiest bulk fuel on the planet, this will add to an already inflated transport cost.
BTW. Not anti Chinese. The global times is a well known propaganga sheet of the CCP. I merely point out before posting from any well know partisan news source it is neccessary to check the merits of the story, otherwise your own credibility suffers when it is seen you are just reprinting unchecked propaganda. It is like posting out of fox news without checking but who would do that? Oh yes. I forgot, there are those.

----------


## sabang

Anyway, what are we gonna do about our chronic urea shortage? Unfortunately it cannot be solved by drinkin' piss and urinating in a bottle. Given it has the status of an essential commodity, I think long term we are gonna have to bring meaningful production back onshore. We certainly cannot rely on any favors from them behind the bamboo curtain right now.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Anyway, what are we gonna do about our chronic urea shortage? Unfortunately it cannot be solved by drinkin' piss and urinating in a bottle. Given it has the status of an essential commodity, I think long term we are gonna have to bring meaningful production back onshore. We certainly cannot rely on any favors from them behind the bamboo curtain right now.


I believe this plant will start construction in Geralton next year. Hopefully that answers your question.

Strike Energy plan fertiliser plant capable of supplying bulk of Australia'&#39;'s urea needs - ABC News

----------


## sabang

Grreatismo.  :Smile:  Now there is just the short term crisis to nut out...

----------


## sabang

If Peter Dutton and his like want to conduct war games to enhance their pre-election prospects, perhaps they should play a few rounds of paintball

As a desperate Morrison government recklessly spruiks what it insists are the prospects of armed conflict with China, now is exactly the right time to introduce a legal curb on the federal executives unilateral capacity to commit Australian troops to war.

Since the recent emergence as defence minister of prime ministerial wannabe Peter Dutton, the federal government has dangerously amped-up the prospect of Australian war with China over Taiwan, for what some consider cynical political purposes ahead of an election.

Dutton repeatedly reaches into his inflammatory, scare-em-all-the-way-to-the-ballot-box rhetorical kit bag, with questionable claims including that it would be inconceivable for Australia not to follow America if there was a war with China.


He has also invoked the rise of nazism in the 1930s (yes, there was considerable appeasement, though the world didnt fail to notice or act against the rise of toxic German nationalism and aggression). But the parallel point he makes in relation to China, while the world watches cautiously, is illegitimate.

It has come at great human cost and any repeat of the mistakes of the 1930s would again exact a great cost on our country and many more, Dutton said.

There is no copyright on cheap foreign policy frighteners, of course. It was only six or so months back that Duttons rhetorically fearsome comrade-in-arms Mike Pezzullo (head of the ministers old department home affairs but with a hawk-eye on defence) also invoked the Nazis, in an Anzac day speech which, while encouraging the search for peace, referred ominously to unspecified beating drums of war.

Cue a collective eyeroll among the harder heads in defence who adhere to the dictum of speaking cautiously when you have such a very small stick in your hand.
Neither has there been any shortage of overhyped war talk from other hatchlings in the hawks nest.

But here is an idea: if Dutton and his like want to play war games to enhance their pre-election prospects, perhaps go get down and dirty with a few rounds of paintball.

 Too strenuous? Well, it is usually the armchair generals like Dutton and his supporters who carry on the most obstreperously but who wont actually be required to charge over the parapet when the whistle sounds.

The real dirty work of war, of course, is done by those in uniform  not the politicians who send them, too often for all the wrong reasons.

Its little wonder then that veterans and their families are now petitioning federal MPs to change the law to ensure the decision to commit to war be debated in  and voted on by  parliament. Presently the prime minister alone can commit to war.

When leading federal government figures continually politicise the prospects of Australian conflict with China over the Taiwan Strait (while planning greater military interoperability with American and British forces through the recent Aukus deal) the veterans initiative, No War Without Parliament, makes sense.

We urge you, our parliamentarians, to demand that any proposal for Australian involvement in overseas wars receives scrutiny in parliament followed by your vote, to ensure that ADF [Australian Defence Force] actions have the widespread support of the Australian people as expressed through parliament, reads the petition circulated by Australians for War Powers Reform.

We ask you to change Australian law so that our armed forces cannot be sent to an overseas conflict without the approval of our parliament. There are no impediments to this legislation that cannot be resolved.

Signatories include former defence force chief Chris Barrie and veterans of all recent conflicts  including Afghanistan and Iraq  to which Australian personnel have been deployed.
I commend this appeal to all ADF veterans, so that those who participate in any future wars will have the explicit support of the Parliament and the Australian people, Barrie says.

Cameron Leckie, a veteran and former army officer, says that as a young soldier he never questioned how or why Australia committed to conflict and simply took it on faith  the reasons were justified, legal and democratic.

Currently the most important decision that any country can make  to go to war  can be made by one person alone, the Prime Minister, Leckie says. As a veteran, I think this situation shows a disturbing, if not disgraceful, disregard for Australian defence personnel. Especially a disregard for the mostly young Australians who enlist.

 While they have done so willingly, and know that they may be required to kill, or risk being killed, injured or otherwise damaged in the service of their country, they are entitled to know that their lives will not be put at risk for political purposes in wars that should have been avoided.

Importantly, if federal parliament were to debate future deployments of military personnel, voters would have greater confidence that questions of national security  and war-fighting and the possibility of it  were not being used as political smokescreen. Australias real fog of war happens behind the closed prime ministerial door as well as on the battlefield.

Scarcely has a federal government been less transparent than this incumbent when it comes to the moral and strategic integrity of its hawkish motivations.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ian-troops-to-war

----------


## OhOh

Aukus boss says jump, aukus wassle jumps.

*Aukus Treaty 2021*

Section 1., paragraph 1, line 1.

Surly the OZ people have read it?

I'm sure a gogle search will find it. Possibly not all "sensitive clauses" but ....

----------


## panama hat

> Aukus boss says jump, aukus wassles jump.


Beijing tells you to shit yourself . . . and you do

----------


## OhOh

moved

----------


## sabang

The former Australian prime minister Paul Keating has accused the Liz Truss of making “demented” comments about Chinese military aggression urged the British foreign secretary to hurry “back to her collapsing, disreputable government”.

Keating, in a blistering op-ed, also said Britain “suffers delusions of grandeur and relevance deprivation” and its tilt to the Indo-Pacific lacks credibility.

The former Labor leader, who served as prime minister from 1991 to 1996, has long pushed for “engagement” with China but now finds himself increasingly at odds with the bipartisan consensus in Canberra to take a stronger line against Beijing.


Keating took aim at Truss, who visited Australia for meetings with counterparts last week, after a report said she had warned that China could use a Russian invasion of Ukraine as an opportunity to launch aggression of its own in the Indo-Pacific.

“I don’t think we can rule that out,” Truss was reported as saying during an interview with the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
“Russia is working more closely with China than it ever has. Aggressors are working in concert and I think it’s incumbent on countries like ours to work together.”

Former Australian PM Paul Keating criticises Liz Truss over ‘demented’ China comments (msn.com)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The former Australian prime minister Paul Keating has accused the Liz Truss of making “demented” comments about Chinese military aggression urged the British foreign secretary to hurry “back to her collapsing, disreputable government”.


Guess which chinky apologist called Paul Keating takes money from the China Development Bank? (and who knows what other chinky entities).

----------


## sabang

_The Defence Minister is stoking anti-China sentiment in Australia – a foolhardy stance that is damaging our economy and putting us at risk of military conflict.
_
On November 23, shadow foreign minister Penny Wong said that the Morrison government’s constant“amping up the prospect of war against a super-power is the most dangerous election tactic in Australian history”.
She is right that it is extremely dangerous, but the ploy has been used before. The difference this time is, of course, that China is a nuclear superpower.

In the 1960s the Coalition government terrified the Australian public with the prospect of the ‘Yellow Peril’ of Chinese communism toppling all the ‘dominoes’ in South-East Asia and wiping out Australia’s democratic way of life, unless it was halted in its tracks in Vietnam. So we joined the US in its ‘war of aggression’ in Vietnam (Daniel Ellsberg 2002) .

Following the destruction of cities and rural environment by more bombs than were dropped by all sides in WWII, with the attendant slaughter of 3.8 million people (Robert McNamara 1999) and the maiming and deforming of countless more by Napalm and Agent Orange, we were finally defeated in 1975.

Unsurprisingly the ‘Yellow Peril’ did not come flooding down to Australia, because the Vietnamese national liberation movement which won the war, was as opposed to Chinese intervention as it was to American intervention. It is delusional to believe that Vietnam would support an American war against China.

Wong said that Defence Minister Peter Dutton was “wildly out of step with a strategy long adopted by Australia and our principal ally” which was the “bipartisan adoption of a One China Policy and advocacy to deter unilateral changes to the status quo”.

But is Dutton really out of step with US strategy? On the contrary, he appears to be implementing the “strategy of denial” detailed in the book of that name by Elbridge Colby, a book he keenly read (Troy Bramston, _The Australian_, December 15).

Colby served as the lead official in the development of the 2018 National Defence Strategy (NDS). He served with the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq in 2003 and the 2004-05 President’s Weapons of Mass Destruction Commission, making him adept in campaigns of vilification through misinformation.

He is committed to the pursuit of the ‘Wolfowitz doctrine’ of maintaining US primacy in the world by military force. He believes a ‘limited war’ between China and Taiwan would serve the US objective of inhibiting China’s rise.

The 2018 NDS has not been significantly revised under President Joe Biden. In it Colby recommended that US allies Japan, India and Australia should be drawn into a coalition (like the ‘Coalition of the Willing’ against Iraq) to contain China. Two years later, under Biden, the QUAD
and AUKUS were formed.

*Step 1: Vilification
*
In line with Colby’s strategy of demonisation, Dutton is generating fear of China by characterising its efforts to protect its national territorial integrity in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong and Taiwan as ‘aggressive expansionism’. These are specious examples, since all four provinces have been part of the sovereign territory of China since well before Australia existed as a nation state.

He seems unaware that China has never invaded another country for territorial gain, whereas the US has attempted the overthrow of 60 countries since WWII, succeeding in the case of 25 elected democracies.

Dutton said he had to speak the truth about China’s military build-up, but failed to mention the US ‘pivot to Asia’, which ranged 60 per cent of American naval capability along the coast of China. To the Chinese, this must have looked like a potential blockade of its most  economically vital ports, and provoked the acceleration of military counter measures.

He cited China’s construction of military bases in the South China Sea as a further sign of ‘expansionism’, but failed to mention that Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, the Philippines and even Taiwan had similar bases.

He did not acknowledge the possibility that China saw its bases as a counter to the constant  incursions by the US and its allies (especially Australia) into waters vital to its interests, through ‘freedom of navigation operations’. He made no mention of the fact that China has one base outside its own periphery, compared to over 800 US bases around the world, many of them encircling China.

To further stoke public fear, he pointed out that China’s navy was many times the tonnage of Australia’s and their missiles were capable of striking any target in Australia as far south as Hobart.

*Step 2: Goad China to act
*
Colby argued that after a campaign to vilify it, China could be goaded into starting a military conflict over Taiwan and thus be portrayed as the aggressor. The US has already taken a number of steps in this direction, apart from stationing the bulk of its naval power off the coast of China. These include:


“Freedom of navigation” and combat exercises in the South China Sea and Taiwan Strait;Visits by senior US officials using US military aircraft;Creation of a putative “air defence identification zone” extending well over mainland territory and then alleging Chinese violations of it;Secretly providing military training personnel (while denying it);Including Taiwan in the Summit for Democracy (December 8-10), implying it is a separate country.
Dutton is further goading China by reassuring Taiwan that Australia would “inevitably” come to its defence in the event of a military move against it from the mainland. He is increasing the possibility that Taiwan will feel emboldened to declare independence from China and thus upset the status quo and provoke the war that Colby recommends.

Daniel L. Davies, a retired lieutenant-colonel and senior fellow at Washington think tank Defence Priorities, has argued that “refusing to be drawn into a no-win war with China over Taiwan will see our comparative advantage over China increase dramatically. Their military would be seriously degraded … while ours … would be at full strength”.

The Taiwan Relations Act 1979 imposes a legal requirement on the US to “provide Taiwan with arms of a defensive character”. There is no treaty obligation for the US to intervene to defend Taiwan. According to Davies, the US should not risk any of its own military assets, but should push Taiwan to invest more in its self-defence capabilities. Colby has suggested that the US should not provide air defence to Taiwan, since widespread civilian casualties would whip up world anger against China.

Under the strategies proposed by Colby and Davies, China would become bogged down in a  drawn-out conflict that would severely deplete its armed forces and deflect its resources away from economic development and international infrastructure co-operation. It would also

satisfy the insatiable appetite of the US military-Industrial complex for never-ending arms sales.

The ANZUS Treaty is a non-binding collective security agreement. It provides only that an armed attack on one of its members would  constitute a danger to the others and require consultations on measures to meet the threat. It does not bind the US to intervene to protect Australia should Australia attack a third party.

In the light of the Colby-Davies strategy for Taiwan, the US would be unlikely to risk its own military assets or any of its homeland territory in direct defence of Australia. It would increase arms sales to bolster Australia’s self-defence, at great cost to the budget and great profit to the military-industrial complex.

US National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan promised that America would not leave Australia ‘alone in the field’ in its trade dispute with China. Instead of taking supportive action, however, the US leapt in to snatch up the markets lost by Australia’s ‘standing up to China’. This does not

encourage confidence that the US would actively intervene in support of Australia in a military clash with China.

Commitment under AUKUS to heavy expenditure on nuclear-powered submarines, to arrive in the next 20 years or so, offers little  reassurance if Dutton’s ‘war with China’ erupts in the next five years.

Dutton has disingenuously asserted that the ASEAN countries would support Australia. He has failed to acknowledge that such support is far from certain, since ASEAN on November 22 renewed its Comprehensive Strategic Partnership with China. Each of its members has ongoing infrastructure projects under China’s BRI, which they would not wish to put at risk. They have all expressed varying degrees of disquiet at ‘increased power projection’ into the region through AUKUS.

The effectiveness of the QUAD in defence of Australia is also highly questionable, given that India has security obligations with China through its commitment to the Charter of the Shanghai Co-operation Organisation. India is also dependent for its armament on Russia, which has a “better than treaty relationship” with China. Russia seems unlikely to equip India to fight China.

The Colby strategy has not been formally adopted by the Biden administration, but there are signs that it is gaining increasing traction in policy-making circles in Washington. There are also strong voices in Washington in favour of direct US military involvement in defense of Taiwan, arguing that if it failed to do so, the US would lose international credibility as the ‘protector of democracy’.

Fortunately, President Biden has opted, for the time being, for continuation of the policy of ‘strategic ambiguity’ (if somewhat weighted towards reassurances to Taiwan), eschewing the two competing, more aggressive scenarios.

In either scenario, the result for Australia would be the same: – If Australia were to join in the battle to “save democratic Taiwan”, as proposed by Dutton, then, judging from his own assessment of China’s capabilities, the Australian navy would be obliterated in short order and command-control centres in Australia destroyed (especially Pine Gap, in the unlikely event that US forces were involved).

The strident anti-China policy of the Morrison government has positioned Australia as the enemy of China, which is increasingly reluctant to trade with the enemy. Hence the China trade would not be available to buffer Australia from the worst effects of the next global financial crisis (which many economic analysts believe is imminent), as it did in the 2008 GFC. Australia would be considerably weakened economically and much less able to sustain a military engagement with China.

Dutton’s pronouncements, however, are edging Australia inexorably towards outright warfare with China. Australia needs instead to align itself more clearly to Biden’s public posture by unambiguously reaffirming (to both China and Taiwan) its adherence to the One China principle and its commitment to a peaceful, negotiated resolution of the ‘Taiwan problem’.




*John Lander*


John Lander worked in the China section of the Department of Foreign Affairs in the lead-up to the recognition of the People’s Republic of China in 1972 and several other occasions in the 1970s and 1980s. He was deputy ambassador in Beijing 1974-76 (including a couple of stints as Chargé d’Affaires). He was heavily involved in negotiation of many aspects in the early development of Australia-China relations, especially student/teacher exchange, air traffic agreement and consular relations. He has made numerous visits to China in the years 2000-2019.


The China threat: Dutton is dragging Australia into dangerous waters - Pearls and Irritations

l

----------


## sabang

*PM’s ‘lost’ WeChat account speaks volumes about our changing Sino relations*



Scott Morrison has lost his WeChat account. The prime minister’s account on the popular Chinese social media platform was taken over last year and quietly rebranded as “Australian-Chinese New Life”. Efforts by the government to reclaim it have failed.



For Liberal Senator James Paterson, chair of the Joint Parliamentary Committee on Intelligence and Security and a China hawk, the account takeover is a sign of foreign interference. Government MPs are pledging to boycott the platform ahead of the next election.

For Huang Aipeng, chief executive of Fuzhou 985 Information Technology, which now controls the account, the whole thing was a simple commercial transaction.
“I don’t even know who [Scott] Morrison is. I saw the account has a lot of followers, so we bought it,” Huang told the ABC.

That the new owners’ registered website is a Chinese underground sports betting company adds another layer of murk. But whatever the reasons behind the takeover, the saga shows how Australian politicians’ relationship with WeChat, and China in general have changed since 2019.

.... the way Morrison’s account was treated is indicative of Australia’s tainted image in China.

“We shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that while the core of the story is one of incompetence on behalf of the PMO, it also is illustrative of just how much Scott Morrison’s name and the Australian government’s reputation is in the garbage bin in China,” Ryan said.

PM’s ‘lost’ WeChat account speaks volumes about our changing Sino relations (msn.com)


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## BLD

> *PM’s ‘lost’ WeChat account speaks volumes about our changing Sino relations*
> 
> 
> 
> Scott Morrison has lost his WeChat account. The prime minister’s account on the popular Chinese social media platform was taken over last year and quietly rebranded as “Australian-Chinese New Life”. Efforts by the government to reclaim it have failed.
> 
> 
> 
> For Liberal Senator James Paterson, chair of the Joint Parliamentary Committee on Intelligence and Security and a China hawk, the account takeover is a sign of foreign interference. Government MPs are pledging to boycott the platform ahead of the next election.
> ...


Faark this scomo guy is an embarrassment. His days are numbered though. Bring on the election.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> 


I wonder how much they pay the Australian Harold Steptoe for his "Globaltimes" articles?

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> For Huang Aipeng, chief executive of Fuzhou 985 Information Technology, which now controls the account, the whole thing was a simple commercial transaction.
> “I don’t even know who [Scott] Morrison is. I saw the account has a lot of followers, so we bought it,” Huang told the ABC.


So, he didn't really lose it then. They sold it to someone.

Which shows how Wechat, like the chinkies, is not to be trusted.

----------


## panama hat

> I wonder how much they pay the Australian Harold Steptoe for his "Globaltimes" articles?


In Singapore and Malaysia the Beijing-apologists are called 'fifty-cent' as that's how much they earn per pro-China/anti-western post.

----------


## sabang

Civilian technicians have arrived in Tonga to assess systems on Australia's biggest warship after it suffered an outage while shipping vital aid when the region was hit by a destructive underwater volcano eruption.

"The _Adelaide_ deployment has been something of a disaster for Australia ... but the Tonga government is sympathetic ... it knows Australia is trying its best," Dr Pryke said.

It comes as Chinese aid continues to arrive in Tonga delivered by ships and military aircraft.

Dr Pryke said the arrival of Chinese aid on Tonga helped boost its soft power status in the Pacific.

"They were able to load up some fishing vessels from Fiji and deliver some aid by plane to Tonga."

China media outlet _Global Times_ reported that a second batch of disaster relief aid arrived in Tonga aboard two Chinese navy ships on Monday.

China steps in as Australian aid mission to Tonga stumbles (msn.com)


Tonga has also gone into Lockdown, with five confirmed Covid cases, including among dockworkers unloading foreign aid. HMAS Adelaide has 15 confirmed cases.

----------


## OhOh

I'm sure the newly purchased nuclear submarines will be OK.

----------


## harrybarracuda

^ Chinky hacking? French technology?

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Civilian technicians have arrived in Tonga to assess systems on Australia's biggest warship after it suffered an outage while shipping vital aid when the region was hit by a destructive underwater volcano eruption.
> 
> "The _Adelaide_ deployment has been something of a disaster for Australia ... but the Tonga government is sympathetic ... it knows Australia is trying its best," Dr Pryke said.
> 
> It comes as Chinese aid continues to arrive in Tonga delivered by ships and military aircraft.
> 
> Dr Pryke said the arrival of Chinese aid on Tonga helped boost its soft power status in the Pacific.
> 
> "They were able to load up some fishing vessels from Fiji and deliver some aid by plane to Tonga."
> ...


Why is this a disaster? The aid has been delivered, back up power is now operational and they have a team sent in to fix the problem. They are docked so they are not stranded in the middle of the ocean. It is a shallow draft vessel so is unlikely to have problems even in a shallow port.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> I'm sure the newly purchased nuclear submarines will be OK.


What that has to do with the HMAS Adelaide god only knows as I doubt it was anything more than one of your throw away comments. I can assure you that it wasnt purchased with money from putting Tonga heavily in to debt as a certain country is well known to do. A hint. They trample on human rights dont keep to their agreements and bully SE Asian countries with illegal occupation of "islands". Maybe ask Sri Lanka how well their new sea port and airports are doing since they used Chinese help while you're at it.
BTW on the subject of made in China any news on how they will compensate the world for releasing a virus that has killed millions and pushed millions of people into poverty?

----------


## sabang

> Why is this a disaster?


Ask Dr Pryke, the author. He is the director of the Pacific Islands Program at the Lowy Institute.

I would certainly describe it as an embarassment- but if we are in fact shown to have transmitted Covid to Tonga, yes a disaster.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Ask Dr Pryke, the author. He is the director of the Pacific Islands Program at the Lowy Institute.
> 
> I would certainly describe it as an embarassment- but if we are in fact shown to have transmitted Covid to Tonga, yes a disaster.


Well I'd certainly listen to Dr Pryke with a degree in diplomacy and a degree in public policy. An obvious expert on Ships and power. Probably gained his considerable expertise from using the Manly ferry.

It has already been shown the covid outbreak did not come from the Adelaide. Sorry to spoil your day.

----------


## sabang

No that is indeed good news- but I have yet to see it confirmed. Gotta link?

----------


## harrybarracuda

The chinkies gave everyone else Covid, who says they didn't give it to the Tongans as well?

----------


## BLD

> Civilian technicians have arrived in Tonga to assess systems on Australia's biggest warship after it suffered an outage while shipping vital aid when the region was hit by a destructive underwater volcano eruption.
> 
> "The _Adelaide_ deployment has been something of a disaster for Australia ... but the Tonga government is sympathetic ... it knows Australia is trying its best," Dr Pryke said.
> 
> It comes as Chinese aid continues to arrive in Tonga delivered by ships and military aircraft.
> 
> Dr Pryke said the arrival of Chinese aid on Tonga helped boost its soft power status in the Pacific.
> 
> "They were able to load up some fishing vessels from Fiji and deliver some aid by plane to Tonga."
> ...


We hear nothing of this in Australia in the mainstream media. Probably coz it's a Murdoch thing. Meanwhile Dutton is beating his chest with the backing  of slowmo.   Jesus christ . How much can it get?  They are basing there election campaign on the imminent chinese military attack. So. They bought some submarines that will turn up in about 20 years. It's embarrassing to be an Aussie at the moment

----------


## sabang

I think it's sinking in that he's a phoney. Scotty from Announcements.

The infected Samoan dockworkers caught covid from a different dock than where HMAS Adelaide was unloading, or so the ABC said over my morning coffee.  Phew.

----------


## panama hat

> Ask Dr Pryke, the author. He is the director of the Pacific Islands Program at the Lowy Institute.


Which means sweet fuck all, really.






> but if we are in fact shown to have transmitted Covid to Tonga, yes a disaster.


That's the thing, though . . . no facts back this up . . . but keep trying.

----------


## Looper

*China accuses Australia of 'maliciously spreading disinformation' about laser shone at RAAF patrol aircraft*

China says Australia's complaint about a laser from a Chinese naval vessel being directed at an Australian military aircraft does not square with facts. 
Key points:

    Chinese authorities said the ships were sailing in the high seas in a "fully legitimate and legal" operation
    Australia should respect the "legitimate rights" of Chinese vessels, a spokesman said
    A senior Australian analyst called the incident a "hostile act in our exclusive economic zone" and "completely unacceptable"

In the first official response to Australian defence department reports that a laser was shone from a People's Liberation Army vessel at a surveillance aircraft in flight last Thursday, Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said Australia should stop maliciously spreading such information.


The Chinese navy vessel was within Australia's exclusive economic zone and directed a laser at an Australian military aircraft over Australia's northern approaches, illuminating the plane and potentially endangering lives, Australia said on Saturday.

A Chinese guided-missile destroyer and an amphibious transport dock were sailing east through the Arafura Sea between New Guinea and Australia at the time of the incident and later passed through the narrow Torres Strait.

China's foreign ministry rejected the Australian criticism, saying the ship was abiding by international law.

"The Chinese vessel sailing in the high seas complies with relevant international law and international practice and is fully legitimate and legal," Mr Wang told reporters at a regular briefing in Beijing.

"We urge the Australian side to respect Chinese vessels' legitimate rights in accordance with international law in relevant seas and stop maliciously spreading disinformation in regards to China."

Ahead of the comments from Mr Wang, Chinese military expert Song Zhongping was interviewed by the Global Times, a state-run nationalist tabloid.

He told them: "Australia failed to tell the public how close its aircraft flew near the Chinese vessels, so people could not tell if the Chinese vessels were forced to take defensive countermeasures."

But Dr Malcolm Davis, a senior analyst at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, told the ABC that China's behaviour was a "hostile act in our exclusive economic zone", which was "completely unacceptable".

"I don't suggest we're going to respond with military force. But I do think what we can do is use the political repercussions, diplomatic repercussions," he said.

While Australia and China remain trapped in a diplomatic dispute over the incident, here's what we do know so far.
What was the laser?
Two navy ships in the Torres Strait.
The Chinese vessels were sailing in Australia's exclusive economic zone.(Supplied: Australian government)

Dr Davis claimed it was a military-grade laser device and Defence said an RAAF P-8A Poseidon detected a military-grade laser illuminating the aircraft.

However, there has been no confirmation of exactly what type of laser was directed at the Australian aircraft.
'Dangerous' act by China on RAAF aircraft

Defence says on Thursday, an RAAF P-8A Poseidon with up to 109 personnel on board detected a laser illuminating the aircraft while in flight.
A chinese navy ship in the ocean.
Read more

The Global Times quoted an anonymous analyst close to the Chinese military who suggested the equipment was a laser rangefinder.

That is a type of measurement tool used to tell distances between objects.

All modern warships are equipped with them, but they are also used outside the armed forces.

They can become dangerous when aimed at humans, as is shown in the Chinese Navy's own documents.

The Chinese military guide for laser rangefinders warns that due to the strong energy of the laser beam, it can harm the human eye.

"The laser should not be fired at the human eye," the guide said.
Why did China do it?
A storyboard showing a map of South East Asia with insert of white naval ship
A storyboard released by Headquarters Joint Operations Command shows the progress of the Chinese vessels and the laser incident.(Australian Defence Force)

According to the Global Times, Chinese armed forces were in the region to give "assistance to other countries  like Tonga and the Solomon Islands, helping them overcome disaster and epidemic".

But no officials have yet provided any solid answers as to why the Chinese vessels shone the laser.

"I suppose China needs to answer it," Dr Davis said.

"Essentially, China tries to intimidate the Australian aircraft and to force it away."

It is not the first time Chinese military vessels have used lasers against Australian patrol planes.

In 2019, Australian navy helicopter pilots were hit by lasers while exercising in the South China Sea at night.

The source of lasers has not been formally confirmed, but Australian military officials believe the lasers came from fishing boats.

Beijing maintains a robust maritime militia in the South China Sea, composed of fishing vessels equipped to carry out missions just short of combat.
Similar events likely to increase in future

A similar incident has happened between China and the US.
Foreign policy is becoming a critical election issue

Foreign policy is not normally a decisive issue at federal elections, but these are not normal times  and this time it is critical.
Side by side photos of Penny Wong at a microphone and Scott Morrison standing at a podium
Read more

In 2018, the US issued a formal complaint to China over the use of lasers fired at aircraft, resulting in minor injuries to two pilots near Djibouti, where both countries have military bases.

Dr Zhang Jian, an expert in international studies at the Australian Defence Force Academy, said while details were hard to confirm, there was an urgent need to establish a way for Australia and China to solve similar disputes in the future.

"When China shone lasers at the US aircraft, the two countries have worked out a scenario to prevent further disputes," he said.

"There are no mutually agreed procedures or protocols for handling encounters between Australian and Chinese military installations on the high seas.

"The situation is likely to increase in the future as China and Australia increase their military activities in the region. Such problems will increase in waters close to China, such as the South China Sea."

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2022-02-21/china-hits-back-vessel-shone-laser-australian-patrol-aircraft/100848916

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *China accuses Australia of 'maliciously spreading disinformation' about laser shone at RAAF patrol aircraft*
> 
> China says Australia's complaint about a laser from a Chinese naval vessel being directed at an Australian military aircraft does not square with facts.
> 
> https://www.abc. net.au/news/2022-02-21/china-hits-back-vessel-shone-laser-australian-patrol-aircraft/100848916


But the chinkies are, as we all know, lying bastards.

----------


## OhOh

*Australia's 'laser attack' fault-finding farce copies the US: Global Times editorial*

Published: Feb 22, 2022 12:56 AM

Snip:

_"__On Monday, the spokesman of China's Ministry of National Defense said  that the Australian P-8 anti-submarine patrol aircraft operated near the  Chinese vessel flotilla with a minimal distance of only four  kilometers. The Chinese vessels were sailing normally in international  waters, which conform to the relevant international laws and  international practices. Against this backdrop, the fact that an  Australian P-8 anti-submarine patrol aircraft came within only four kilometres from Chinese ships for surveillance was highly provocative.

Worse  still, the Australian plane also dropped sonobuoys around Chinese  ships. Such a move means it was preparing to detect if there were  Chinese submarine activities and possibly force PLA submarines, if there  were any, to surface. This went far beyond the scope of  "unprofessional," and became a practice of military hostility. Such a  malicious and provocative behavior could easily lead to a  misunderstanding and misjudgment, threatening the vessels, the aircraft  and the safety of the personnel on both sides.

In the face of  such malicious provocations, China maintained safe, standard and  professional actions throughout the process, and did not take the  initiative to announce the ugly actions of the Australian patrol  aircraft to the international community. Instead, China chose to keep a  low profile and remain restraint. This is China's goodwill toward  regional stability as a responsible major country. However, Australia  has been slandering China without telling the full story. Australia has  played the trick of a thief crying to stop a thief to the utmost.

The  key information China released was missing from the statement of the  Australian defense department or from the remarks of Prime Minister  Scott Morrison or Defense Minister Peter Dutton."

Australia's 'laser attack' fault-finding farce copies the US: Global Times editorial - Global Times_



> But no officials have yet provided any solid answers as to why the Chinese vessels shone the laser.
> 
> "I suppose China needs to answer it," Dr Davis said.


1. Answer given.




> "There are no mutually agreed procedures or protocols for handling  encounters between Australian and Chinese military installations on the  high seas.


_2. The Chinese vessels were sailing normally in international  waters,  which conform to the relevant international laws and  international  practices.
_
Possibly, UNCLOS has a few words on the subject regarding foreign military vessels travels through the International Waters that OZ officials need to adhere too.




> was within Australia's exclusive economic zone


3. "exclusive economic zone" conveys certain rights to the sovereign country and obligations to others. In all other aspects it is deemed International Waters, thus UNCLOS applies. Which to my knowledge does not mention laser usage.

Regarding the usage of lasers to determine distances, one suspects radar maybe used, or a long measuring tape might be utilised, but a laser is more accurate I suspect.

I'm sure when they swap publish their video tapes of the incident, all will be clarified. À la the UK warship entering Russian sovereign waters off Crimea, last year.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> the UK warship entering Russian sovereign waters off Crimea, last year.


There are no Russian sovereign waters off Crimea, because it is part of Ukraine. You stupid boy.

----------


## sabang

Why don't you tell them that in Crimea 'arry- you might get offered a job as a comedian!  :smiley laughing:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Why don't you tell them that in Crimea 'arry- you might get offered a job as a comedian!



It doesn't really matter what you or any Russian stooge thinks: Crimea is part of Ukraine.

----------


## Looper

> Worse still, the Australian plane also dropped sonobuoys around Chinese ships. Such a move means it was preparing to detect if there were Chinese submarine activities...


A P-8 Poseidon Anti-Submarine-Warfare aircraft dropping sonobuoys in Australian EEZ waters... That is outrageous  :rofl: 




> ...and possibly force PLA  submarines, if there were any, to surface.


Detection via sonobuoy forces a submarine to surface?... more hysterical hyperbole from the global leaders in hurt feelings!

----------


## OhOh

> Australian EEZ waters


International waters, military attack on a foreign warship above or on the surface. Wars have started for less.

Sanctions, sanctions, Sanctions is the normal AUKUS "rule".

Nothing in UNCLOS allows military attack of foreign ships, civil or military.

One wonders what foreign navies would do if attacked by Chinese warships in international waters.

Turn another cheek?

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Here is the link to the UNCLOS section on Exclusive Economic Zones:

https://www.un.org/depts/los/convent...clos/part5.htm

Nothing in it, I can see, that allows the coastal state to attack foreign ships, civil or military in Exclusive Economic Zones or International waters.

----------


## sabang

It was a rangefinder FFS. Talk about a storm in a teacup.

----------


## malmomike77

> It was a rangefinder FFS. Talk about a storm in a teacup.


why don't you piss of Sab. If it was the west you'd be claiming incursions and outrage. You, OhOh and SoCal are beyond tedious in your backing of dictators actions.

----------


## sabang

No, I wouldn't. It was a rangefinder FFS, and the aussie plane came too close for what is considered either protocol or comfort. I don't see how it would have been any different in reverse. Don't be such a namby pamby.

----------


## malmomike77

^ And that's your answer isn't it. West bad, Russia and China good. I have my pension and my future is banked so i'l sit behind a keyboard and slam the system and Govt that has provided for me. You've turned into a joke of your own making.

----------


## sabang

No that wasn't my answer at all. My answer was that it would have been no different in reverse (ie Chinese plane/ aussie warship) and this whole thing is just a bullshit storm in a teacup. Major diplomatic incident, my arse.

Fwiw, I would have done exactly the same thing if I were on the Bridge of an aussie warship. The rangefinder tells you the distance, direction, and velocity of the approaching aircraft in real time- and lets them know that you know they are there. So eat it.

----------


## malmomike77

You might want to save your energy for when you need to justify your leaders death count

----------


## harrybarracuda

> No, I wouldn't.


Well yes, you would. You have your tongue stuck firmly up the chinky and russian arse, and if the chinkies whinge, you'd be right in there defending them - as you are now.

----------


## OhOh

> i'l sit behind a keyboard and slam the system and Govt that has provided for me


PPPPP - Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Until the seductive Thai beaches, Wats and young nubile, flexible ladies enter your life.




> your tongue stuck firmly up the chinky and russian arse


Projecting your own fantasies in numerous threads on TD will not help solve your frustration. 

A Mia Noi, may.

----------


## BLD

> But the chinkies are, as we all know, lying bastards.


That's true. But scomo and dutton are even bigger bullshitters

----------


## harrybarracuda

> PPPPP - Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
> 
> Until the seductive Thai beaches, Wats and young nubile, flexible ladies enter your life.
> 
> 
> Projecting your own fantasies in numerous threads on TD will not help solve your frustration. 
> 
> A Mia Noi, may.


No fantasy. You're the biggest snivelling chinky sycophant on here, with sabang a close second.

----------


## Looper

*Top Australian intelligence chief warns China's 'troubling' strategic convergence with Russia poses threat to democracies*


One of Australia's top intelligence chiefs says China is intent on establishing "global pre-eminence" and says its "troubling" strategic convergence with Russia will pose new threats to liberal democracies like Australia. 
Key points:

    The Director-General of the Office of National Intelligence says China wants to establish primacy in the Indo-Pacific region
    Russia and China struck a new "no limits" strategic pact just weeks before the invasion of Ukraine
    He says there were "legitimate doubts about American staying power" after the US withdrawal from Afghanistan

The Director-General of the Office of National Intelligence, Andrew Shearer, has offered a grim assessment of Australia's strategic outlook at the Australian Financial Review Business Summit.


Mr Shearer said China's authoritarian turn under President Xi Jinping was partly driven by the Chinese Communist Party's desire to supersede the United States as a global power.

"We see a leader who is really battening down and hardening his country for this struggle to overtake the United States as the world's leading power," he said.

"That's the assessment of the US intelligence community of China's intent [and] it's also our assessment of China's intent.
Xi Jinping in a suit, clasping his hands together
Mr Shearer says Chinese President Xi Jinping wants to supersede the US as a global power.(Reuters: Damir Sagolj)

"And the way station, if you like, the base camp for getting to that position of global pre-eminence, is to establish primacy in the Indo-Pacific region.

"A situation where other countries in the region, across South-East Asia, across the Pacific, including Australia, have to defer to Beijing's choices."

Russia and China struck a new "no limits" strategic pact just weeks before Russia's President ordered troops into Ukraine.

Mr Shearer said that agreement was a "symbol" of a "troubling new strategic convergence" between Beijing and Moscow.

    "What we're seeing is that increasing cooperation between these authoritarian powers," he said.

"I do think it tells us that we're going to have to work much harder to maintain the liberal quality of the rules-based order in Europe and here in the Indo-Pacific region."
A girl looks on among Afghan women completely covered by blue burqas.
The withdrawal of the US from Afghanistan left many questioning American power, Mr Shearer says.(Reuters)

He struck a more optimistic tone on the United States-led response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, saying the wide-ranging sanctions imposed on Moscow by a host of countries across Europe and Asia showed that "reservoirs of American power still run deep". 

"I think, particularly after the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, there were legitimate doubts about American staying power, but I would contend that the US response to what's playing out in Ukraine has been robust [and] as effective as it could be in a very difficult situation."

But Mr Shearer also warned that while Ukraine's resistance had been much stronger than many analysts expected, Russian President Vladimir Putin was "very determined" to take the country because he had "everything at stake". 

"It's very hard to see a sort of elegant or even inelegant dismount from this for Putin and his tactics, in our judgement, will become more and more brutal," he said.

    "We're seeing that in the shelling of innocent women and children and other civilians just in the last few days  so we are in for a very brutal, bloody couple of weeks, in our judgement."

A group of people, including children, huddle around the light of a globe in a dark room.
Families have been forced to take shelter in Mariupol and other parts of Ukraine.(AP: Evgeniy Maloletka)
Quad and Europe need to 'push back' on authoritarian impulses

He also expressed frustration at the Biden administration's economic strategy in Asia.

Former US president Donald Trump pulled the United States out of the massive Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal and Joe Biden has made it clear the US will not re-join it under his presidency.

Senior US officials have instead promised to develop an Indo-Pacific "economic framework" focusing on supply chain resilience, infrastructure, clean energy and the digital economy, but progress has been slow.

"Do they need to do more on trade and investment? Do they need to have a proper regional economic plan? Absolutely," Mr Shearer said.

    "And we badger them mercilessly about that, I can assure you, day in, day out."

Mr Shearer said Australia needed to respond to the deteriorating strategic environment by "hardening" its economic and political systems from coercion and foreign interference, and said an increasing number of countries across Asia and Europe realised they were facing a common threat from authoritarian states like Russia and China.
Xi Jinping hints at a shift in China's 'Wolf Warrior' diplomacy

After several years of a noticeably more assertive shift in China's diplomatic and media tone, Xi Jinping has dropped the first hint that the country's confrontational style needs adjustment, writes Bill Birtles.
Xi Jinping waves to someone off camera as he sits in a suit in front of a red wall.
Read more

"We're dealing with it in like-minded partnership with an increasing range of countries," he said.

"[This gives us] the ability to stake out positions defending the liberal aspects of the world order that that give us some hope of at least curbing some of China's more assertive behaviour."

And he said democratic countries were not just focused on balancing China's swelling military might but also ensuring that global rules governing new technologies were "conducive" to democracies rather than autocracies.

"We can't win that fight on our own. Not even the United States can win that fight on its own," Mr Shearer told the summit.

"But the US, Australia, India, Japan, plus the massive normative power of Europe, can actually make a difference in pushing back on some of these authoritarian impulses."

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2022-03-09/australian-top-intelligence-chief-warns-china-autocracy-russia/100896170

----------


## sabang

So, how exactly are we gonna stop China and Russia from being 'friends with benefits'? By calling them nasty names, maybe?

----------


## sabang

And how exactly is Australia going to make India a fellow US vassal? Buy less curry powder?


A submissive Australia in no position to criticize India’s independent strategies on Ukraine crisis

Some media outlets in Australia have been feverishly roused in recent weeks, stirring up discord during the ongoing military conflicts in Ukraine. They have been criticizing countries like India and Indonesia that have refused to follow the US-led West denouncement of Russia and call to impose sanctions. Instead, they called for diplomacy and dialogue as solutions to the crisis.

As a member of the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue (Quad), which has been pulled together and mobilized by the US as the axis of its treasured Indo-Pacific strategy, India is expected to synchronize and take its cues from Washington. 

Canberra has been a loyal acolyte of Team USA, with constant unfailing dedication. The former Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull pledged to "join at the hip" with the US in defense and foreign affairs. His successor, Scott Morrison, boasted that "There is no deeper friendship than that which exists between Australia and the US… We see the world through the same eyes."

Indeed, Canberra has been supporting almost every initiative and strategy yielded from the White House for decades. It never missed out on a single war waged by the US, at the cost of Australian lives and Australian taxpayers' money. For Canberra, it is unimaginable that developing countries demonstrate their maturity and independence and stand up against the West's political pressures. 

It is a universal truism that all sovereign countries are politically independent, with their own national interests to protect and promote. They have the unchallengeable right to make decisions and formulate their own international policy. 

What's more, as a longstanding member of the non-alliance movement, New Delhi has never forsaken its own interests or strategic targets in order to serve Washington's hidden agenda. 

The Biden administration's new version of Indo-Pacific Strategy repeatedly stresses its desire to engage India as a close partner in the regional cobweb of the US' strategic groupings, aimed at containing and deterring China's development. It deliberately tries to increase tensions between India and China by calling attention to border disputes. 

The Modi government has not been as submissive as Canberra to Washington. A more coolheaded approach is at play in New Delhi with India's national interest and long-term strategic goals taking precedence. India has refrained from blindly joining the West-led chorus censuring Russia, and has instead adopted an independent diplomatic approach, much to the chagrin of many of Washington's vassal states.

There is something important for Australia to consider. Why is India making its own diplomatic decisions on an important international issue like the Ukraine crisis, while Australia continues to pledge its allegiance to Washington at the cost of its own national interest?

In psychology, there is a neurotic syndrome called Fear Of Missing Out, or FOMO, which often brings about stress and anxiety because the victim is always in apprehension of being unable to possess or achieve something good. Some people in Australia apparently need a psychiatrist's couch as they are constantly worried that they will be left behind by Washington. They pathetically believe that Australia should attach itself to the US hegemony to attain security, just as creeping vines have to coil around a sturdy tree trunk. 

It still remains uncertain whether Canberra will attain true independence, or remain immature in a perpetual cocoon.

A submissive Australia in no position to criticize India’s independent strategies on Ukraine crisis - Global Times

----------


## sabang

A Chinese-owned car company has revealed its plans to take over the Australian car market with electric cars that are much cheaper than Tesla.

An MG executive said motorists no longer associated its famous octagonal badge with British open-top roadsters like the post-war MGA and MGB classics, as they looked to the future.

The MG ZS EV was Australia's most popular electric car last year, with the SUV costing $20,000 less than the most affordable Tesla.

MG, a reinvented budget car maker, was Australia's seventh most popular brand in February putting it ahead of Subaru, Isuzu and Nissan on the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries sales chart.

The MG ZS was Australia's sixth bestselling car last month while in January it had two spots on the monthly top ten for the first time ever, with the budget MG3 in ninth place, cementing its place as Australia's most popular light car.

Full article-  Chinese car company reveals plans to take over the Australian market (msn.com)

----------


## sabang

*Solomon Islands defends plans to expand security ties with China, as Canberra, Wellington express concern*



The government of Solomon Islands is standing by a controversial draft agreement which Australian officials fear could pave the way to a Chinese military presence in the Pacific Island nation, declaring it has to "broaden" its security ties.

The draft agreement — – seems to provide a framework for Chinese troops and military assets to be deployed to Solomon Islands, and has drawn criticism from the Solomon Islands opposition.

However, in a statement issued late on Friday, the Solomon Islands government issued a lengthy defence of its push to expand security ties with Beijing.

"The government recognises the state's responsibility of protecting its people from fear and to live in dignity," it says.
"Broadening partnerships is needed to improve the quality of lives of our people and [to] address soft and hard security threats facing the country."

The statement does not say whether the leaked document is the latest version or whether it will be presented to Solomon Islands cabinet in its current form.

It also said the government was "expanding the country's security arrangement with more countries" and suggested there was a strong "development" imperative driving the arrangement.

"The proposed security arrangements have a development dimension to [them], covering humanitarian needs of the country besides maintaining the rule of law," the statement says.

But it does not explain how the proposed agreement will boost development or lift living standards in the country.

Australia and New Zealand have already expressed alarm about the draft document.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison did not directly criticise Solomon Islands for pursuing the agreement but said the episode highlighted "the constant pressure and the constant push that is coming into the region from interests that are not aligned with Australia's and not aligned with those of the Pacific".

He also denied that the government was blind-sided by the document, although he did not say when Australian officials became aware of the China-Solomon Islands talks.

Australia's Minister for the Pacific, Zed Seselja, was more forceful than the Prime Minister, saying Australia did not want to see an authoritarian regime coming into the Pacific's "security environment" and predicted significant pushback from other Pacific Island nations.

"If you look at some of the security challenges we have responded [to], as a Pacific family, and we don't see a role for an authoritarian regime to be obviously coming [into the] security environment into the region," Senator Seselja told the ABC.

The minister indicated he had already begun lobbying other Pacific Island states to register their concerns with Solomon Islands over the deal.

He said Australia's High Commissioner, Lachlan Strahan, had also directly registered Australia's concerns with Solomon Islands Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare.

"It is a draft agreement, so there will obviously be discussions taking place between our government and Solomon Islands government and [our] Pacific counterparts," he said.

"The Pacific family comes together in these circumstances. We work well together, and we don't see need in the security environment to go beyond that [region].

"It does potentially have implications and we will see, I think, significant pushback in the region."

In a formal statement issued late on Friday, Senator Seselja and Foreign Minister Marise Payne said Australia "respected the right of every Pacific country to make sovereign decisions" but reiterated deep-seated concerns with the proposal.

"We have regularly and respectfully raised our concerns with the Solomon Islands Government and will continue to do so," the statement reads.

"We would be particularly concerned by any actions that undermine the stability and security of our region, including the establishment of a permanent presence such as a military base."

New Zealand's Foreign Minister, Nanaia Mahuta, said her country's High Commissioner in Honiara would raise concerns with both Solomon Islands and China.

"Such agreements will always be the right of any sovereign country to enter into, however developments within this purported agreement could destabilise the current institutions and arrangements that have long underpinned the Pacific region's security," she said in a statement.

"This would not benefit New Zealand [nor] our Pacific neighbours."

In Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin called on relevant parties to look at security cooperation between China and Solomon Islands "objectively and calmly and not over-interpret it".

He was responding to a question about the new security agreement asked at a regular media briefing.

"Some politicians on the Australian side have published some fallacies of so-called 'Chinese coercion' and deliberately created an atmosphere of tension, which is extremely irresponsible and does not help regional stability and development," Mr Wang added.
*ABC/Reuters

Solomon Islands defends plans to expand security ties with China, as Canberra, Wellington express concern (msn.com)*

----------


## harrybarracuda

> suggested there was a strong "development" imperative driving the arrangement.


The chinkies deliver their "strong "development" imperatives" in cake tins.

----------


## baldrick

well the australian government favours companies with visas so they can bring the pacific islanders over to pick fruit and vegetables for the wages of slaves - so they probably look at the chinkies as the better option

----------


## sabang

Look, I'm no blackbirder baldrick- but they aren't treated that badly are they?

----------


## Iceman123

Well they are all volunteers, a few months work in Oz and they go back home and build a house with their savings.

It is a win win - Australia and Pacific Islanders both.

(Baldrick - slaves do not get wages)

----------


## panama hat

> A Chinese-owned car company has revealed its plans to take over the Australian car market with electric cars that are much cheaper than Tesla.
> 
> An MG executive said motorists no longer associated its famous octagonal badge with British


shit.

Excellent - crappy British cars now made in China . . . they'll have some sales but like Haval and the rest of the Chinese crap they'll not get the numbers they expect







> Well they are all volunteers, a few months work in Oz and they go back home and build a house with their savings.


Same in NZ - many will overstay their visas to keep on picking until they're caught and sent back - and they'll come again for the next season.  It's a whole lot more money than they could ever dream of making in Samoa, Fiji Tonga etc . . . and they get paid the same as Kiwis, Flippies etc . . .

----------


## sabang

Solomon Islands Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare said the backlash to his country's security negotiations with China was "very insulting", in his first comments on a security treaty he said was ready to sign.





A file photo of Chinese Premier Li Keqiang holding a welcoming ceremony for Solomon Islands' Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare ahead of their talks at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on 9 October, 2019. Source: Getty / Xinhua News Agency/Xinhua News Agency/Getty Images


The Solomon Islands' prime minister said on Tuesday that a contentious security agreement with Beijing was "ready for signing", denying reports that his country had been pressured to allow a Chinese naval base to be built in the Pacific island nation.

In an impassioned speech to parliament, Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare offered little detail on the shape of the final deal beyond saying that there was "no intention whatsoever... to ask China to build a military base in the Solomon Islands".

He dismissed reports in the Australian media that his country was being "pressured by the People's Republic of China to build a military base in Solomon Islands".

"Where does that nonsense come from? The security treaty... is pursued at the request of the Solomon Islands' government," he said.

"We are not pressured. We are not pressured in any way by our new friends."

Asked in parliament about the status of the deal, Mr Sogavare said: "We will finalise and finish now. The document is ready for signing."

It comes after Prime Minister Scott Morrison spoke with his New Zealand counterpart Jacinda Ardern about the proposed security agreement between the Solomon Islands and China.

A leaked draft security deal between the Solomon Islands and China showed Chinese ships would be based in the Pacific with a navy base less than 2,000 kilometres off Australia's coast.

The proposed deal has triggered concerns about the potential militarisation of the Pacific.

Mr Morrison and Ms Ardern on Tuesday discussed the deal and the actions they believe could undermine the security and stability of the Pacific region.

Mr Morrison said this week reports of the deal were, "A reminder of the constant pressure and threats that present in our region to our own national security."

Ms Ardern has expressed concerns, telling NZ radio she did not see a need for China to have a security presence in the Solomon Islands.

New Zealand Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta has travelled to Fiji to discuss the issue with Pacific leaders.


*'Very insulting'*


In his speech on Tuesday, Mr Sogavare confirmed that existing security arrangements with Australia would "remain intact" under the new pact with China, but added that "to achieve our security needs, it is clear that we need to diversify the country's relationship with other countries — and what is wrong with that?"

Mr Sogavare labelled concern from "many leaders" about China's presence threatening regional security in the Pacific as "unfortunate perceptions".

He said that it was "very insulting... to be branded as unfit to manage our sovereign affairs" by other nations and condemned those who had leaked the draft pact with China as "lunatics and agents of foreign regimes".

"We are not pressured in any way by our new friends and there is no intention whatsoever to ask China to build a military base in the Solomon Islands," he said.

Mr Sogavare said he had exchanged text messages with Mr Morrison on the matter and also had written him a letter on Tuesday morning.

China's growing influence in the Pacific in recent years has fed into a tense relationship with Australia, as has Canberra's strengthened military ties with the United States and other allies.

The prospect of a Chinese naval base in the South Pacific has long been a concern for Australia and the United States because it would allow Beijing to project its power deeper into the region.

Both Australia and New Zealand have confirmed their ongoing commitment to the Solomon Islands Assistance Force.

Opposition Leader Anthony Albanese says Australia must engage more with Pacific island leaders.

"We need to be in a position whereby Australia is playing a leading role along with our allies in the Pacific because I'm very concerned about this announcement that appears to have been made in the Solomons," he told ABC radio on Monday.

"The Pacific step-up needs to be more than a slogan. It needs to be backed up by action and respect for what our Pacific island neighbours are saying, for example, about climate change.

- with AFP

Defiant Solomon Islands PM says contentious China security deal 'ready for signing' (sbs.com.au)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> He dismissed reports in the Australian media that his country was being "pressured by the People's Republic of China to build a military base in Solomon Islands".
> 
> "Where does that nonsense come from? The security treaty... is pursued at the request of the Solomon Islands' government," he said.
> 
> "We are not pressured. We are not pressured in any way by our new friends."


Yeah, a well stuffed cake tin isn't really "pressure", is it?

----------


## sabang

I am quite sure he is being well oiled by his new friends. But if you want to get to the bottom of this bullshit in the Solomons, it comes down to a long standing tribal rivalry, or hatred between the Malaitans and the Guadalcanal people. When one gets political power, the other causes mischief- generally including a riot or two. The Taiwan/ China thing is almost incidental- but the national gov't (Guadalcanal faction in power) switched recognition to China- no doubt in return for considerable favours bestowed, both above and below the table. Malaitans, of course, still want Taiwan- who 'coincidentally' bestow generous patronage upon them for this too. The agreement has nowt to do with a naval base- it's to protect the national capital Honiara, the incumbent gov't, and Guadalcanal in general from the scheming Malaitans- who were of course behind the recent riots. The national gov't, thanks to alliances with other tribal groups, seems pretty secure in power for the moment- but who's to say what might happen if/when the Malaitans get back in power. More riots, no doubt. Welcome to the Solomons.

The Morrison gov'ts response is more than a bit hysterical, but no doubt they figure it will win them votes in the forthcoming election. The 'Yellow Peril' is still a bit of a bogeyman with mainly aging, white aussies. Much like the dreaded commie word in amerka I suppose.

----------


## panama hat

> I am quite sure he is being well oiled by his new friends





> But if you want to get to the bottom of this bullshit





> he is being well oiled by his new friends


'nuff said, the rest is apologist bullshit

----------


## sabang

You're really not all that thick PH- so why do you act as if you are?

----------


## Backspin

People from the Anglo security establishment are already  talking about military action against the Solomon Islands because of the security treaty with China. Watch for political instability in the Solomon Islands and anomalous events

 Solomon Islands-China security deal is 'gravely concerning', Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says

----------


## Backspin

You mean sphere of influence right  ::chitown:: The thing you've been lecturing Russia against for 20 years.





> Australia wanted to “show strong signals” to the wider Pacific, as well as the rest of the world, that *Solomon Islands and the Pacific was “definitely in our collective backyard”, he said.
> 
> *


Is this the Russian foreign minister speaking ? No. Its Ms Ardern. Doesn't the Soloman Islands have the sovereign right to choose its alliances ?




> Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, on Monday afternoon, said she had raised directly the issue of Chinese police officers in the Solomon Islands with its prime minister, Manasseh Sogavare, in December. “We are in the Solomons currently – we have been for a number of years. *In my mind there is no need for this expansion that we've seen*.


Defence Minister '&#39;'caught off guard'&#39;' by Solomon Islands-China security agreement | Stuff.co.nz

----------


## sabang

Why isn't the Solomons allowed to be 'Friends with benefits' with China? Why should that mean that ANZ cannot be friends with them too? And of all the ridiculous things, what right do you have to cast shade on the Solomons for recognizing China, when you have recognized China yourself for years? Now that's some hypocrisy.

----------


## Switch

Belt and loans in Africa not working quick enough for China. Hence the move in emphasis back to the Indo Pacific. Plenty of disagreements for the stooges to get stuck into there.
Obama saw this coming. He moved the emphasis of US forces to the Pacific, and asked the rest of NATO, (UK and EU branches) to pick up the slack in the Atlantic.

----------


## panama hat

> You're really not all that thick PH- so why do you act as if you are?


I appreciate your post re the Solomons being a mixed bag of issues but the crux of the situation is money for the corrupt leader(s).  The islands have done well under the status quo, just like most of the others, and this not going to help them in the long run.






> Why isn't the Solomons allowed to be 'Friends with benefits' with China?


Who is saying they can't be?   This is a discussion as to whether or not that's a good idea . . . as for 'friends with benefits', why are you not that benevolent with Ukraine?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You're really not all that thick PH- so why do you act as if you are?


Another good question would be: Why do you continue to try and sidetrack posts that you don't like with irrelevant, whiny bullshit?

----------


## sabang

*Red wine grapes left to rot as China trade dispute leads to oversupply in Sunraysia*




Wine grape harvesters have been rumbling through Sunraysia vineyards for the past two months but not all of the grapes that are picked will make their way to wineries.

Cardross wine grape grower Russell Lynch has just let 130 tonnes of shiraz drop to the ground because it was not worth anything.

Only two years ago, Mr Lynch was paid $700 a tonne for his crop, while last year it was $400 a tonne.

"In December, when you do negotiations for fruit and contracts, it was apparent there was going to be an oversupply of red grapes," he said.

"Unfortunately, I didn't have a contract for this property."

The uncontracted shiraz accounts for just 10 per cent of Mr Lynch's harvest, meaning 90 per cent of the grapes he has grown would be made into wine.

"I've had bumper crops in chardonnay, so that will take some of the pressure off," he said.

Mr Lynch, who also runs a grape harvesting business, has several other growers on his books who were looking at dumping their fruit.

"It's mostly shiraz, cabernet and merlot [and] after Easter we'll go through and knock it on the ground," he said.

*No home for '15,000 tonnes'*

At Trentham Estate, about 4,000 grapes were crushed during vintage — a similar amount to previous years.

Managing director Anthony Murphy said he had continued taking grapes from his regular suppliers.

"Certainly there's been plenty of growers ringing up trying to place fruit," he said.

"Talk is there could be 15,000 tonnes left on the vines in this region and there's certainly a lot of bulk wine around as well, millions of litres of wine in storage, that really hasn't got a home at this stage," he said.

*China trade dispute continues*

Australian Grape and Wine chief executive Tony Battaglene said a number of issues had led to red grapes being in oversupply. 
"The principal reason is the closure of the market with China due to the trade dispute and the imposition of the punitive tariffs on Australian wine," he said.

"That means a $1.2 billion market is closed."

The industry was also struggling to export wine overseas because shipping had been disrupted due to the coronavirus pandemic.

"There is no short-term fix, but market diversification is obviously what we are targeting, so we've been looking at where we can get into other markets," Mr Battaglene said.

He added that this year's vintage would be close to the long-term average of between 1.7 or 1.75 million tonnes crushed.

It follows a record vintage during 2021 when more than two million tonnes of grapes were crushed.

Red wine grapes left to rot as China trade dispute leads to oversupply in Sunraysia (msn.com)



It could be worse. Retail prices have certainly adjusted downwards here in Oz- especially if you buy mixed cases, some great bargains to be had. I guess every cloud has a silver lining.  :Smile:

----------


## Hugh Cow

Another shining example of Chinese investment in a developing country. A $95 million white elephant.

Chinese investors promised PNG a '&#39;'gorgeous and glistening'&#39;' skyscraper. Now it stands '&#39;'dangerous'&#39;' and vacant - ABC News

----------


## Hugh Cow

> *Red wine grapes left to rot as China trade dispute leads to oversupply in Sunraysia*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wine grape harvesters have been rumbling through Sunraysia vineyards for the past two months but not all of the grapes that are picked will make their way to wineries.
> 
> Cardross wine grape grower Russell Lynch has just let 130 tonnes of shiraz drop to the ground because it was not worth anything.
> 
> ...


Australia is crying over that one. Luckily for Asia the wheat harvest has doubled recently and will mean no shortages although the price of Australian wheat exports will at least double. Meanwhile China is paying more for everything else it cant wean itself off of from Australia. 
Its' quest to be the dominant world economic power is entirely dependent on whether it can continue to trade with the west which it is quickly making itself an enemy of. For starters it is far too dependant on commodities from other countries. I doubt it will ever exceed the USA as the demoninant world economic power. Certainly in terms of GDP per capita it is not remotely close even to the likes of Australia let alone the USA.
I do understand how it must grate you to see Australia do well.

Australian resources and energy export earnings tipped to hit $425 billion  | The West Australian

----------


## Switch

> Australia is crying over that one. Luckily for Asia the wheat harvest has doubled recently and will mean no shortages although the price of Australian wheat exports will at least double. Meanwhile China is paying more for everything else it cant wean itself off of from Australia. 
> Its' quest to be the dominant world economic power is entirely dependent on whether it can continue to trade with the west which it is quickly making itself an enemy of. For starters it is far too dependant on commodities from other countries. I doubt it will ever exceed the USA as the demoninant world economic power. Certainly in terms of GDP per capita it is not remotely close even to the likes of Australia let alone the USA.
> 
> Australian resources and energy export earnings tipped to hit $425 billion  | The West Australian


and the poor old Chinese families no longer have access to cheap quality wine. As usual in authoritarian countries it’s normal folk that have to put up with this kind of crap.
Aus has probably found alternative export opportunities elswhere for next years crop.

----------


## sabang

Sorry to burst your bubble, but China will become the world's largest economy by the end of this decade, and the Chinese people express much more satisfaction with their government than do we. I feel sorry for them having to miss out on a good Aussie drop, but Chile, Sth Africa and NZ thank you

----------


## Switch

> Sorry to burst your bubble, but China will become the world's largest economy by the end of this decade, and the Chinese people express much more satisfaction with their government than do we. I feel sorry for them having to miss out on a good Aussie drop, but Chile, Sth Africa and NZ thank you


Not my bubble. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. Failure to support the UN might harm their global reputation, along with failure in Sri Lanka.
Perhaps others might see the Sri Lankan failure for what it is. Financial bullying. Note that China is careful to target despotic regimes for belt and braces bribery, so maybe they get away with it.?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Sorry to burst your bubble, but China will become the world's largest economy by the end of this decade, and the Chinese people express much more satisfaction with their government than do we. I feel sorry for them having to miss out on a good Aussie drop, but Chile, Sth Africa and NZ thank you


Yes, we know they're breeding like rats now.

----------


## sabang

^ At current rate of population growth, not only will India likely be the worlds second largest economy around 2070, but it may even surpass China to be the Worlds largest by the turn of the century. Interesting thing demographics- and China does in fact face a population crisis.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^ At current rate of population growth, not only will India likely be the worlds second largest economy around 2070, but it may even surpass China to be the Worlds largest by the turn of the century. Interesting thing demographics- and China does in fact face a population crisis.


Like I said, they're breeding like rats now.

----------


## Switch

> ^ At current rate of population growth, not only will India likely be the worlds second largest economy around 2070, but it may even surpass China to be the Worlds largest by the turn of the century. Interesting thing demographics- and China does in fact face a population crisis.


Many parts of India have a thriving family planning services up, and more and more females are getting an education. Quite common in Bangladesh too.
African countries are also beginning to improve child mortality rates and large numbers of children surviving early years just makes more mouths to feed. 

China has had to reverse the ‘one child ‘ policy recently. They are monitoring population closely now.

----------


## baldrick

> Sorry to burst your bubble, but China will become the world's largest economy by the end of this decade


does that mean that you will be voting labour ?

----------


## sabang

I certainly won't be voting for the other wankers!

----------


## Iceman123

^
Sounds like you are going for Clive Palmer
 :Smile:

----------


## sabang

Haha, surely you jest

----------


## Norton

> I certainly won't be voting for the other wankers!


Tune in daily to ABC. Near as I can tell wankers galore in Aus.  :rofl:

----------


## Switch

> Tune in daily to ABC. Near as I can tell wankers galore in Aus.


 …… and Sabang trying so hard to come across as a wannabe newshound.

----------


## sabang

Switch confirming his irrelevance. Not much new under the sun- same with the aussie elections.

----------


## Switch

> Switch confirming his irrelevance. Not much new under the sun- same with the aussie elections.


Your one sided reporting style is so similar ……. Murdoch ……. For News …… ABC.

----------


## TTraveler

> Sorry to burst your bubble, but China will become the world's largest economy by the end of this decade, and the Chinese people express much more satisfaction with their government than do we. I feel sorry for them having to miss out on a good Aussie drop, but Chile, Sth Africa and NZ thank you


But China still has a long way to go to meet per capita GDP...

----------


## panama hat

> But China still has a long way to go to meet per capita GDP...


Yup, and that is the important part.  I'm sure we'll hear how 'friends' have said there is common prosperity in China . . . when there isn't.

----------


## sabang

PPP, PH. I assume you know what that means.

----------


## Switch

> PPP, PH. I assume you know what that means.


More obfuscation prompted by one sided ignorance.

----------


## sabang

Don't bother swish- above your head.

----------


## helge

> PPP





> Don't bother swish- above your head.


But..

I suppose that he has chosen to live in Bali because of PPP

----------


## sabang

Maybe because of the BMI (Big Mac Index).  :Very Happy:

----------


## Switch

> But..
> 
> I suppose that he has chosen to live in Bali because of PPP


Just one of many positives about life here.  :Smile:

----------


## baldrick

the narrative about the chin in the solomons has been pushed by the murdoch scum because the LNP will be using the ' tough on the yellow peril ' mantra for the election campaign

the aust government has been its normal waste of space for the last 10 years with its relationships to our regional pacific neighbors - they are just the common boomer racist colonials spreading their prejudices about the coloured only being useful as cheap labour

----------


## TTraveler

> PPP, PH. I assume you know what that means.


It China's cities it is about the same cost as in the US. Rural China is so far behind in Tech and living standards that it can't be compared.  It is rural China that brings it down and it is like traveling back to the Qing dynasty in some places.

----------


## sabang

*China and Solomon Islands sign security pact, Beijing says it is 'not directed at any third party' amid Pacific influence fears*


The federal government has declared it is "deeply disappointed" that Solomon Islands has pressed ahead and signed a security pact with China  a deal Australia, New Zealand and the US fear could open the door to a Chinese naval base in the South Pacific.

*Key points:*


The agreement will see Beijing help Honiara with issues, including social order and national securityHowever, the US has warned the pact could lead to a Chinese military presence in Solomon IslandsAustralia's Minister for the Pacific travelled to Honiara last week in an unsuccessful bid to stop the deal


China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin announced the agreement in Beijing on Tuesday evening, saying it would involve China cooperating with Honiara on maintaining social order, protecting people's safety, aid, combating natural disasters and helping safeguard national security.

Solomon Islands Foreign Affairs Minister Jeremiah Manele confirmed the signing of the pact to the ABC in a text message.

He said Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare would make a formal announcement in the coming days.

The announcement comes just days after Australia's Minister for the Pacific Zed Seselja travelled to Honiara and met the country's Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare in a last-ditch effort to dissuade him from going ahead with the China security deal.

Senator Seselja and Foreign Minister Marise Payne said the government was "disappointed" by the agreement and that it was not reached in a transparent way.

"Ultimately, this is a sovereign decision of the government of Solomon Islands and we absolutely recognised that, but  declarations and these engagements on security issues have been dealt with in a Pacific-wide manner," she said.

"That is the traditional approach for these issues and it's why some Pacific partners have also raised concerns."

Senator Payne said the government's position was still that Pacific neighbours were the best to delivery security in the region and said it was an "unfair characterisation" to say the region had become less secure while Prime Minister Scott Morrison has been in power.



Royal Solomon Islands Police Force officers train with replica guns supplied by the Chinese government last year. (RSIPF)

The ministers said while Solomon Islands had the right to make sovereign decisions about national security, Australia still believed the "Pacific family" was best placed to provide security guarantees.

They also flagged that Australia would continue to press Solomon Islands not to turn to China in the event of a security crisis.

When Honiara was rocked by violent riots in November, Australia responded rapidly to a request for help from Mr Sogavare, sending police and ADF personnel to the city to restore order.

China has also repeatedly insisted that it has no intention of displacing other countries in Solomon Islands, although both Canberra and Washington are deeply sceptical of that claim.

China and Solomon Islands sign security pact, Beijing says it is 'not directed at any third party' amid Pacific influence fears - ABC News

----------


## harrybarracuda

So how long before the Solomons is handing over its fishing rights to the chinkies to pay off the "Belt and Owed" debt I wonder? And how much more will they borrow to pay for the chinkies to build a six lane motorway where a single lane road suffices?

Not long I fancy. _Cake tins_ already handed over.

----------


## OhOh

"_There may be trouble ahead"_.

*US high-level visit to Solomon Islands aims to nullify China security pact, uses region as hegemonic fulcrum*


By, Xu KeyueKhan Jie 


Published: Apr 19, 2022 11:17 PM

_"__After Australia failed to sway the Solomon Islands to thwart the  security agreement with China, senior US officials plan to travel to the  country this week in an attempt to nullify the already signed security  pact, which will be a rare high-level visit with pressure by the  superpower.

White House Indo-Pacific coordinator Kurt Campbell  and the State Department's top official for Asia will travel to the  Solomon Islands, the White House said on Monday, amid "concerns" that  the Pacific island country is making a security pact with China,  according to Reuters."_

Continues at:

US’ high-level visit to Solomon Islands aims to nullify China security pact, uses region as hegemonic fulcrum - Global Times

----------


## Backspin

Aus diplomatic magazine calls for Australia to bomb the capital city of the Solomans.

At least now everyone knows why the Ukraine war happened. This is great power politics 101. And everyone does it. Even "democracies"

Bomb Honiara - MacroBusiness

Australia now has no choice. It must force the deal to be retracted or it must force the Sogavare Government out of power.

No Chinese base can be allowed to commence construction in the Solomon Islands. It is a clear and present threat to Australian sovereignty and freedom.

Once construction starts, to prevent it is war with China

----------


## panama hat

> It China's cities it is about the same cost as in the US


And more in places like Shanghai and Beijing.





> Rural China is so far behind in Tech and living standards that it can't be compared. It is rural China that brings it down and it is like traveling back to the Qing dynasty in some places.


Poverty isn't unusual in rural areas . . . correct.





> Aus diplomatic magazine calls for Australia to bomb the capital city of the Solomans.


Why do you lie so much?

----------


## Backspin

^ reading comprehension problems 

BREAKING: Australian Commentator David Llewellyn-Smith, who contributes to the Sydney Morning Herald and founded "The Diplomat" has penned an op-ed in "MacroBusiness" calling for bombing the Solomon Islands, regime change and "forcing its government out of power".
https://twitter.com/SilksworthPost/s...7mBaxT9xg&s=19

----------


## Looper

This is bad juju

I have messaged Miss Solomon Islands, who emails me occasionally since she went home in January 2020, to urge her to rise up and reject the chinky overtures or overthrow the corrupt Sogavare regime

Sogavare is from Choiseul which is MSI's home island, although she lives in Honiara now

Fun and games

----------


## hallelujah

> This is bad juju
> 
> I have messaged Miss Solomon Islands, who emails me occasionally since she went home in January 2020, to urge her to rise up and reject the chinky overtures or overthrow the corrupt Sogavare regime
> 
> Sogavare is from Choiseul which is MSI's home island, although she lives in Honiara now
> 
> Fun and games


If it's the same bird I think it is, if she rises up anymore she'll probably be able to beat the Chinese on her own.

 :Smile:

----------


## baldrick

the patronage politics that signals a 3rd world society and it rife throughout PNG and the Solomons is something that the Liberal national party excels at - not to mention the god bothering

maybe if they spent more time concentrating on strengthening the educational , medical , policing and judiciary and not concentrating on the deals that allow importing cheap labour to sell to the farming industry things would be better

----------


## Backspin

> This is bad juju
> 
> I have messaged Miss Solomon Islands, who emails me occasionally since she went home in January 2020, to urge her to rise up and reject the chinky overtures or overthrow the corrupt Sogavare regime
> 
> Sogavare is from Choiseul which is MSI's home island, although she lives in Honiara now
> 
> Fun and games




 :Wank:  :Wank:

----------


## sabang

Another foreign policy triumph for the scomo blowhard team! Oh dear, have they lost face?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Another foreign policy triumph for the scomo blowhard team! Oh dear, have they lost face?


It's OK they'll be back bleating for help soon enough.

The Solomons has already had anti-chinky riots to protest their parasitism. 

Won't be long before whatever corrupt arseholes took the cake tins are out on their arses.

----------


## OhOh

*Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin’s Regular Press Conference on April 20, 2022*


_"Phoenix TV: 

On the signing of the security agreement between  China and Solomon Islands, Spokesperson of the US National Security  Council Adrienne Watson issued a statement on April 19 saying that the  US, Japan, New Zealand and Australia shared concerns about this security  framework agreement and its serious risks to a free and open  Indo-Pacific. Do you have any response?

__Wang Wenbin:  

China and Solomon Islands conduct security cooperation on the basis of  equality, mutual benefit, openness and transparency, to help Solomon  Islands maintain social order, tackle natural disasters and carry out  humanitarian aid. The cooperation is not targeted at any third party and  does not replace existing bilateral and multilateral mechanisms of  Solomon Islands’ security cooperation. I don’t understand how our  cooperation poses “serious risks” to the US. 
__
If the US line of  argument is followed, does that mean the Pacific Island countries can  only carry out security cooperation with the US and its few allies? 

Does  that mean cooperation with other countries are deemed threats? 

Does the  US see the Pacific Island countries as independent and sovereign states  or its dependencies? 

Is the US seeking to develop equal-footed  relations with the Pacific Island countries or control them? All these  are questions for the US to answer."_

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin’s Regular Press Conference on April 20, 2022

A free and open Pacific, or subject to some foreign overloads veto?

Time for the Solomon Islands government to repatriate any assets in NaGastan and allies "jurisdiction", to a more secure location.

----------


## panama hat

> ^ reading comprehension problems





> Aus diplomatic magazine calls for Australia to bomb the capital city of the Solomans.



Nope, you're still a lying cvnt.




> Australian Commentator David Llewellyn-Smith, who .... founded "The Diplomat"

----------


## pickel

> Time for the Solomon Islands government to repatriate any assets in NaGastan and allies "jurisdiction", to a more secure location.


So the chinkies can steal it when the debt comes due?

----------


## OhOh

> So the chinkies can steal it when the debt comes due?


Unlike some "exceptional" countries China is not stealing anybodies assets.

Or do you have some evidence of such actions to share with us?

 ::chitown::

----------


## pickel

How China's Belt And Road Became A 'Global Trail Of Trouble'

It was in Sri Lanka that the deficiencies of China’s international development activities were first revealed globally. China partnered with Sri Lanka’s former president, Mahinda Rajapaksa, who now faces allegations of financial irregularities, to build a series of infrastructure mega-projects in Hambantota, a vastly undeveloped region on the island nation’s southern coast. To start, the plan called for a new deep sea port, an airport, a stadium, a giant conference center and many miles of new roadways. These projects were mostly funded with loans from China, which a few years later Sri Lanka struggled to pay back, as the country sunk into a debt trap of its own making.

How China's Belt And Road Became A 'Global Trail Of Trouble'

----------


## harrybarracuda

It's fucking funny seeing hoohoo desperately trying to claim "Belt and Owed" is a good thing, when it leaves a trail of debt and destruction in its wake.

Sri Lankans giving up ports, African countries handing over their fish stocks, Laos villages unable to farm their land because the chinkies drenched it in toxic pesticides... the list goes on and on despite the chinkies trying to hide the truth and idiots like hoohoo parroting their nonsense.

----------


## panama hat

> It's fucking funny seeing hoohoo desperately trying to claim "Belt and Owed" is a good thing


Well, it is . . . for China.  At the moment.  Let's see what the long-term repercussions are when to money-belt is strangled and the cost of wanting so desperately to be a world power hit home

----------


## OhOh

As you post yourself.




> of its own making

----------


## Shutree

> So the chinkies can steal it when the debt comes due?


We don't know, partly because Chinese loans mostly seem to include non-disclosure agreements so the terms and conditions cannot be published. The Paris Club and western lenders generally don't do this. NDAs will make it difficult for Sri Lanka and the IMF.

----------


## OhOh

> *Chinese loans mostly seem to* include non-disclosure agreements





> The Paris Club and western lenders *generally don't do this*


Bigots got to broadcast!




> We don't know,


It appears some bigots, here on TD, who have not seen the confidential contracts and yet continue to state quite categorically, they know all the contracts details.
 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

*Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin’s Regular Press Conference on April 21, 2022*
 _
"AFP: 
The US State Department has expressed concern about the  lack of transparency of China’s security agreement with Solomon Islands.  It says this follows a pattern of China offering big deals with little  regional consultation. Does the foreign ministry have any comment on  this?

Wang Wenbin: 

The remarks by the US side wantonly  criticized China-Solomon Islands security cooperation in disregard of  facts and driven by ulterior motives. 

China and Solomon Islands have  both talked extensively about our security cooperation. How can anyone  allege that it lacks transparency? 

I would like to stress again that  China-Solomon Islands security cooperation is open, transparent and  inclusive, and does not target any third party. 

It proceeds in parallel  with and complements Solomon Islands’ existing bilateral and  multilateral security cooperation mechanisms. 

China stands ready to work  with relevant countries and leverage respective strengths to form  international synergy and jointly promote the security and stability of  Solomon Islands and the South Pacific region."_

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin’s Regular Press Conference on April 21, 2022

Unlike some "unexceptional countries" that have, and continue to, sign public international treaties and fail to deliver their legally biding promises.

----------


## Shutree

> brodecast


A hobby of mine.




> It appears some bigots, here on TD, who have not seen the confidential contracts and yet continue to state quite categorically, they know all the contracts details.!


Who has said that?

----------


## OhOh

^
Just from this page.




> when it leaves a trail of debt and destruction in its wake.





> It was in Sri Lanka





> corrupt arseholes took the cake tins are out on their arses





> Solomons is handing over its fishing rights to the chinkies to pay off the "Belt and Owed" debt I wonder?

----------


## harrybarracuda

Belt and Owed, explained:

1. Chinkies "convince" (i.e. bribe) corrupt officials, mostly in poor countries, to borrow lots of money at loan shark rates for some shit they don't need but which benefits the parasitic chinkies.
2. The Chinkies then get the money back because part of the "convincing" involves awarding all the involved rights or contracts back to the parasitic chinkies.
3. The country that has borrowed the money discovers it can't afford to pay it back. The chinkies grab what they can then offer another loan.
4. Rinse and Repeat.

Parasitic chinky scum in action. It really works well where officials are easy to bribe.

----------


## Switch

> Belt and Owed, explained:
> 
> 1. Chinkies "convince" (i.e. bribe) corrupt officials, mostly in poor countries, to borrow lots of money at loan shark rates for some shit they don't need but which benefits the parasitic chinkies.
> 2. The Chinkies then get the money back because part of the "convincing" involves awarding all the involved rights or contracts back to the parasitic chinkies.
> 3. The country that has borrowed the money discovers it can't afford to pay it back. The chinkies grab what they can then offer another loan.
> 4. Rinse and Repeat.
> 
> Parasitic chinky scum in action. It really works well where officials are easy to bribe.


It needs to be added for OhOhs benefit. When the original loan cannot be repaid in cash, those crazy NDAs come into force and the Chinese can collect via ownership of defaulting projects.

The west has no use for such deals, which explains why corrupt governments like them so much. Sri Lankan leaders will be shamed, and disappear with their millions of Chinese bribery funding.

----------


## sabang

That's right 'arry. They don't need roads, bridges, schools, and hospitals, they need Lectures, and War. Savages.

----------


## Switch

> That's right 'arry. They don't need roads, bridges, schools, and hospitals, they need Lectures, and War. Savages.


OK. Stick your fingers in your ears then. Same result, people hearing but not listening.

----------


## OhOh

> those crazy NDAs come into force and the Chinese can collect via ownership of defaulting projects.


All stated in the T and C of the loan. As are utilised by all loan offering entities, worldwide.




> The west has no use for such deals


Correct, why utilise legally binding requirements/T and C, when illegal theft is their gold standard.




> XXX leaders will be shamed, and disappear with their millions of illegal theft


FIFY

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That's right 'arry. They don't need roads that go nowhere, bridges that no-one uses, ports with no ships, and airports in the middle of nowhere



FTBFY

----------


## Looper

> If it's the same bird I think it is, if she rises up anymore she'll probably be able to beat the Chinese on her own.


Ah, fond mammaries...

Look what I found while I was clearing stuff out from beside the house today.


MSI's bra which she lost from the washing line in the wind. I found it last year with some minor moss growth and then left it where it was. I think it almost warrants a David Attenborough narration now at this advanced stage in its floral evolution.

It almost looks like a designer piece now, with emerald embroidery.

----------


## baldrick

The shed skin of the greater Melanesian tit ?

----------


## OhOh

> The west has no use for such deals


One example.

You may wish to read this book:

*Confessions of an Economic Hit Man*

_"Confessions of an Economic Hit Man_ is a semi-autobiographical book written by John Perkins, first published in 2004.[1][2]
 

The book provides Perkins' account of his career with engineering consulting firm Chas. T. Main in Boston. According to Perkins, his job at the firm was to convince leaders of underdeveloped countries  to accept substantial development loans for large construction and  engineering projects. 

Ensuring that these projects were contracted to  U.S. companies, such loans provided political influence for the US and  access to natural resources for American companies,[1]: 15, 239  thus primarily helping rich families and local elites, rather than the poor. 

According to Perkins, he began writing _Confessions of an Economic Hit Man_ in the 1980s, but "threats or bribes always convinced [him] to stop.

Suggesting a system of corporatocracy and greed (rather than a unilateral conspiracy), Perkins claims the involvement of the National Security Agency  (NSA), with whom he had interviewed for a job prior to joining Main.  According to the author, this interview effectively constituted an  independent screening that led to his subsequent hiring as an 'economic  hit man' by Einar Greve,[3] vice president of the firm (and alleged NSA liaison)." 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man


Others similar, more recent, are available to read ad download.

----------


## OhOh

*Mar 29, 2022*

----------


## David48atTD

^  Can't wait to see what bribes he was paid.

It will eventually float to the surface.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^  Can't wait to see what bribes he was paid.
> 
> It will eventually float to the surface.


Yes, when the people are fed up with the chinky parasites, it's clear the PM is more interested in trousering chinky cash than any of their concerns.

----------


## OhOh

*GT investigates: Australia pushes US ‘Indo-Pacific Strategy’ by military, economic coercion over Pacific Island nations*


By Shan Jie, Lin Xiaoyi and Huang Lanlan 
 Published: Apr 26, 2022 02:26 AM 


_"For decades, Australia, the "manager" of the United States in their  perceived South Pacific region "backyard," has blatantly projected its  expansive hegemony by treating island nations as vassal states.

Although  the region has been "neglected" by the US and Australia for long, when  China attempts to cultivate normal cooperation and economic exchanges  there, Canberra, Washington, and their allies are unrelenting in their  hysteric attacks against China.

The security pact signed in late  March between China and the Solomon Islands has been constantly  obstructed by Australia, the bully in the South Pacific, backed by the  US. In a row, Australian and American envoys have visited the island  country, trying to pressure it to quit cooperation with China.

The  Solomon Islands is now at the center of attention but its Prime  Minister, Manasseh Sogavare, has refused to compromise and called the  denunciations from the West "insulting."

"Australia has always  viewed the South Pacific region as its own backyard, treating island  countries as vassal states with a colonial mentality," said Chen Hong,  president of the Chinese Association of Australian Studies and director  of the Australian Studies Center at the East China Normal University.

Trying  to revive the Monroe Doctrine in the South Pacific region will get no  support and lead to nowhere, Wang Wenbin, spokesperson of the Chinese  Foreign Ministry said on Monday.

Experts noted that countless  precedents have proved that when the US and its allies launch such an  intensive "diplomatic siege" and "public opinion bombing" against a  "smaller country," if it refuses to "compromise," it may face a blockade  or even regime subversion.

A tradition of bullying

Looking  back on past decades, Australia has been keeping exerting political  pressure and military influence on the countries in the South Pacific  region and obstructing their economic cooperation with others.

Australia's  hegemonic thinking of brazenly treating the independent Pacific island  countries as its colonies or vassal states is sometimes more egregious  and uglier than its American counterpart's, observers noted.

A  report published on Saturday on The Sydney Morning Herald suggested that  Australian spies are behind the "leak of a draft" of the security pact  between China and the Solomon Islands. According to the report, the  Australian intelligence services "encouraged a leak" "as a last resort"  to put pressure on domestic and international public opinion, trying to  force Sogavare to change his mind.

To strengthen its military  hegemony in the South Pacific region, Australia has been working with  the US in the expansion of their respective naval and air bases in the  area.

In 2021, for instance, it reportedly committed $175 million  to upgrade the Lombrum naval base on Manus Island, in Papua New Guinea.  The base was jointly expanded by the US and Australia in recent years  for stationing large warships.

Earlier, former Australian defense  minister Christopher Pyne said that some Australian ships "would  probably be based permanently at Lombrum," news outlet ABC reported in  November 2018.

Economic aid is another major means for Australia to strengthen its  control over the Pacific Island countries. As the largest donor in the  region, Australia provided $7 billion in bilateral aid to 16 countries  in the region between 2006 and 2013, according to statistics by  Sydney-based Lowy Institute. Its aid allocation to the Pacific Island  countries was AU$1.72 billion ($1.24 billion) in the 2020-21 fiscal  year, a 56 percent increase from the fiscal year 2012-13, The Australian  reported in April.

To prevent countries in the region from  diversifying economic cooperation, especially with China, Australia has  been intimidating them with the cliche "China threat theory" or "debt  trap" smear. In Fiji, Australia funded a military base in Nadi in 2018  and it "contributed a 'significant' figure" to "secure the rights as the  sole foreign donor," The Australian reported in September that year.

Australia  also imported many seasonal laborers from the island countries. Media  outlets reported that the island laborers face hunger, poverty, or  exploitation in Australia, according to the Business Human Rights  Resource Centre. "This plan, which was meant to be a benefit for the  islanders, has become an exploitation of them," Yang Honglian, senior  researcher of the Pacific Islands Research Center at the Liaocheng  University, based in Fiji, told the Global Times.

This reminded  many people of the dark history of the "blackbird" age in the late 1800s  and early 1900s, when more than 60,000 Pacific islanders, men, women,  and children, were transported, some kidnapped, to Australia to become  laborers which is considered today by some political activists as "a  form of slavery."

'Color revolution' in islands

Australia  has long been openly infiltrating the governments and judicial systems  of Pacific Island countries, as well as local nongovernmental  organizations (NGOs), constantly spreading Western ideology and values  to cultivate local people to be pro-Australian, Yu Lei, a chief research  fellow at the Research Center for Pacific Island Countries of the  Liaocheng University, told the Global Times.

Colluding with the  US, Australia has tried to overthrow the leaders in the region it does  not like with methods similar to color revolutions.

The US diplomatic cables from 2006, which were exposed by WikiLeaks in  2011, revealed Washington's involvement in the "Australian government's  campaign to oust then Solomon Islands Prime Minister Sogavare."

Around  2006, Sogavare called on the Regional Assistance Mission to Solomon  Islands (RAMSI) sent by the Australian government to leave his country.  The RAMSI was sent to the Solomon Islands in 2003 to help deal with the  country's civil unrest at the time. However, it continued to stay there  for years after the unrest subsided.

Sogavare's stance against  Western infiltration and intervention enraged Australia. Exposed cables  showed that then Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, once called and  told Sogavare, "I will make things very difficult for you and your  government." Sogavare stepped down the following year in 2007.

More  recently, after the riots in Honiara in November 2021, Sogavare, who  was elected as prime minister again in 2018, told the press that the  crisis was "influenced and encouraged by other powers." He further  indicated that these forces are those that "do not want ties with the  People's Republic of China."

The same hegemonic approach by the West has been seen in other island countries in the region.

"This  kind of behavior is an interference in the domestic affairs of the  island countries, which is completely contrary to the 'democratic  equality' advocated by Australia and the US," Yang said.

For  example, the Australian government and media used to carry out several  public opinion attacks against the China-friendly leaders in Papua New  Guinea, Chen pointed out.

"This kind of behavior is an  interference in the domestic affairs of the island countries, which is  completely contrary to the 'democratic equality' advocated by Australia  and the US," Yang said.

"The political ecology of countries in  the region is extremely fragile. Once the political situation is  unstable, a series of public security problems will arise impacting the  local investment environment, causing deterioration in development and  construction," Yang noted, highlighting that "this ultimately harms the  interests of the people of the island countries."

The pivot in the 'Indo-Pacific Strategy'

Australia  and the US have "neglected" the Solomon Islands for years, as well as  the South Pacific region, but since China built diplomatic ties with the  Solomon Islands in 2019, the island country has become the "favorite"  target of Australia to act against China in the South Pacific region.

"Back  in 2019, the US began to fall into a hysterical anxiety. The US  government was afraid of a chain reaction that would make other  countries they see as their puppets to switch sides," Chen said.

He  also noted that the current security cooperation between China and the  Solomon Islands has triggered unprecedented attention from the US and  Australia, but in the past, these two countries have long been gradually  conceiving and putting into practice a new anti-China bloc in the South  Pacific Ocean.

The islands in the South Pacific Ocean hold the  key to maritime traffic between Asia and America and are of great  military and strategic values, which the US regards as a significant  military zone that must be controlled, Yu said.

To protect their  hegemonic system at a time of major shifts in power in the Asia-Pacific  region, the US and its military allies are, on one hand, building new  large military bases in the region. On the other, they are doing their  utmost to strengthen their military control over the South Pacific  island countries, never allowing them to establish military and security  cooperation with any non-Western countries, Yu said.

"In fact,  the Indo-Pacific strategy in the South Pacific has nothing to do with  the development of the island countries themselves. This is just a  backup plan made by the US in case it loses the first island chain. Once  China is reunified, the deployments of the US there will face an  embarrassing situation," Yang said.

Actually, without the  involvement of China, the island countries would still be the target of  looting by the colonists and would still be the place to have nuclear  tests or dump nuclear waste, Yang noted.

Between 1946 and 1958,  the US nuclear testing program drenched the Marshall Islands with enough  nuclear firepower to equal the energy yield of 7,000 Hiroshima bombs,  according to news outlet Scientific American. Moreover, US' ally Japan  has announced 1.25 million tons of treated wastewater contaminated by  the wrecked Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant into the Pacific  Ocean, which was condemned by the regional islands.

Australian  Prime Minister Scott Morrison said that "China building a military base  on the Solomon Islands" would be a "red line" for Australia and the US,  ABC reported on Sunday. "We will not be having Chinese military naval  bases in our region on our doorstep," Morrison said.

The handling  of the situation in the Solomon Islands could also affect the situation  in the upcoming elections in Australia, Yu noted.

If the  Morrison administration further "loses" the country, it will mean the  failure of their hegemonic foreign policy in their "backyard," again,  which will be used as an excuse for political opponents and rival  parties to attack, Yu said. "But no matter which party is in power,  their hegemonic foreign policy in the region will eventually fail."_

GT investigates: Australia pushes US ‘Indo-Pacific Strategy’ by military, economic coercion over Pacific Island nations - Global Times

----------


## harrybarracuda

Christ he loves the chinky whining doesn't he.

----------


## OhOh

^
thank you for reading the post and posting your opinion of its contents.

----------


## Hugh Cow

> *GT investigates: Australia pushes US ‘Indo-Pacific Strategy’ by military, economic coercion over Pacific Island nations*
> 
> 
> By Shan Jie, Lin Xiaoyi and Huang Lanlan 
>  Published: Apr 26, 2022 02:26 AM 
> 
> 
> _"For decades, Australia, the "manager" of the United States in their  perceived South Pacific region "backyard," has blatantly projected its  expansive hegemony by treating island nations as vassal states.
> 
> ...


Do you ever read the shite you post? Rhetorical question of course. Firstly it says Australia treats the islands as vassal states and then it say it ignored them for too long. How do you treat an island as a vassal state by ignoring it? 
The article also totally neglects New Zealand's long historic and important role in development and employment of these pacific island nations and islanders for years. 
Australia has poured billions in to PNG and other island nations and helped with law and order in the Solomans which helped to stabilise a very fractious society. The fact that the soloman Is govt accepted Chinese money despite the wishes of Australia shows they are not controlled by Australia and are free and independant to do as they please even though it will be detrimental to their biggest benefactor of many years. When looking around the world it is hard to find so many projects by one govt that has led to such unsustainable debt. 
Whilst Sri Lanka is one, the freeway built by a Chinese company (surprise surprise) with a chinese loan in Montenegro must take the cake.

Highway Built By China Could Bankrupt Whole Country

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^
> thank you for reading the post and posting your opinion of its contents.


You don't think anyone reads your cut and paste nonsense do you?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> When looking around the world it is hard to find so many projects by one govt that has led to such unsustainable debt. 
> Whilst Sri Lanka is one, the freeway built by a Chinese company (surprise surprise) with a chinese loan in Montenegro must take the cake.


But it is chinky parasite SOP.

----------


## David48atTD

> You don't think anyone reads your cut and paste nonsense do you?



I decline to read 'Walls of Text', no matter who posts it.

----------


## cyrille

It isn’t a ‘wall of text’.

Perhaps you don’t know what it means.

It means lengthy text _without paragraph breaks._

----------


## Switch

> It isn’t a ‘wall of text’.
> 
> Perhaps you don’t know what it means.
> 
> It means lengthy text _without paragraph breaks._


you know exactly what David means. Of course you do, pedant.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> You don't think anyone reads your cut and paste nonsense do you?


I do  :Smile: 




> *GT investigates: Australia pushes US ‘Indo-Pacific Strategy’ by military, economic coercion over Pacific Island nations*
> By Shan Jie, Lin Xiaoyi and Huang Lanlan *STOP  !*


I read until here then I scroll to the next reply.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

> You don't think anyone reads "*chinky whining"*


Your opinion is based on the article, how else do you deduce it's contents?




> I decline to read 'Walls of Text', no matter who posts it.


Your opinion of China is based on what then, the "horse's mouth" or foreign arseholes?

----------


## cyrille

> you know exactly what David means. Of course you do, pedant.


Nope. Dickhead. 




> foreign arseholes


Finally - what drives ohno, out in the open.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I do 
> 
> 
> 
> I read until here then I scroll to the next reply.


Yeah the headlines.

Most of the time I don't get past the first few words.

----------


## David48atTD

> Your opinion is based on the article, how else do you deduce it's contents?
> 
> Your opinion of China is based on what then, the "horse's mouth" or foreign arseholes?


I just want the salient points and if the news/opinion interests me, then I'll click the link and digest more.

The exception is where there is a paywall.


But, everyone is different ... up to the reader what they like.

----------


## Switch

> Nope. Dickhed.


You really mean that you don’t understand? On purpose, or are you really as stupid as you want to be?

----------


## OhOh

> I just want the salient points


Ok, I'll try to accommodate your requirements.

----------


## OhOh

One presumes that if the Chinese and Solomon Islands agreement includes the same "restrictions"/acceptable actions, as the OZ/Solomon Islands agreement. 

Including the "No Permanent Military Bases",  which may or may not have been a Chinese demand.

No wonder the 5 eyes are worried if China used the OZ, available to all, agreement as a template. Or possibly not if 5 Eyes have any "secret ones".

Oz defines the boss, Oz can invite any other country, OZ can import any "assets", OZ can have it's own comms, OZ can ....

*AGREEMENT BETWEEN* 
 *THE GOVERNMENT OF AUSTRALIA* 
 *AND* 
 *THE GOVERNMENT OF SOLOMON ISLANDS* 
 *CONCERNING THE BASIS FOR DEPLOYMENT OF POLICE, ARMED FORCES AND OTHER PERSONNEL TO SOLOMON ISLANDS* *AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF AUSTRALIA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF SOLOMON ISLANDS CONCERNING THE BASIS FOR DEPLOYMENT OF POLICE, ARMED FORCES AND OTHER PERSONNEL TO SOLOMON ISLANDS


**Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of Solomon Islands Concerning the Basis for Deployment of Police, Armed Forces, and other Personnel to Solomon Islands (Canberra, 14 August 2017) - [2018] ATS 14
*
A selection of the agreement's 23 clauses:
_Article 1

Definitions
__
The following definitions apply to this Agreement:_ _ (i)	Area of Operations means the territory of Solomon Islands, all areas where it exercises maritime jurisdiction, and the superjacent airspace;
(ii)	Assets means vessels, aircraft, vehicles, armoured vehicles, supplies (including medical and pharmaceutical supplies (including blood products)), stores and prescription drugs, working dogs, equipment (including medical equipment), communications, ammunition, weapons, and any other provisions or supplies required by a Visiting Contingent for the purposes of its deployment;
(iii)	Assisting Defence Force means the defence force and associated civilian personnel of Australia and any Third States;
(iv)	Assisting Police Force means the police force and associated civilian personnel of Australia and any Third States;
(v)	Deployment means a deployment of a Visiting Contingent under Article 2 of this Agreement;
(vi)	NDC means the National Disaster Council of Solomon Islands;
__Other Personnel means personnel of Australia and any Third States who are notified by Australia to Solomon Islands in writing, but are not members of an Assisting Police Force or Assisting Defence Force;

(vii)	Solomon Islands Laws means any laws, regulations or orders of Solomon Islands, including any customary laws;
(viii)	Third State means the government of a State in relation to which the requirements under Article 20 of this Agreement have been fulfilled; and
(ix)	Visiting Contingent means a contingent of personnel comprised of an Assisting Police Force, Assisting Defence Force and/or Other Personnel.

_

_Article 2

__Scope
__ (1)	At the written request of Solomon Islands, and subject to Australias acceptance of that request based on its assessment of the circumstances, Australia shall deploy a Visiting Contingent and Assets to the Area of Operations to:
(a)	assist in the provision of  safety and security of persons and property;
(b)	provide humanitarian assistance and disaster response in coordination with  the NDC; and/or
(c)__	provide such other assistance as may be mutually determined. 
 (2)	The Parties shall consult on the nature and duration of each deployment, taking into account its particular purpose. 
(3)	Solomon Islands shall facilitate any deployment to achieve its purposes and shall provide a Visiting Contingent with any information relevant to the safety and security of a Visiting Contingent and its Assets.
__Article 3

__Visiting Contingent__ 
(1)	Australia shall nominate a head of a Visiting Contingent and notify Solomon Islands of the appointment in writing through diplomatic channels. 
(2)	The head of a Visiting Contingent shall have overall responsibility for management of the Visiting Contingent, and for liaising with Solomon Islands. 
(3)	The head of a Visiting Contingent shall work co-operatively with Solomon Islands to achieve the purposes of the relevant Deployment. 
(4)	A Visiting Contingent shall have sole responsibility for its internal direction, and the command, control, discipline and administration of its members, while respecting Solomon Islands Laws.
(5)	Australia shall notify Solomon Islands of the personnel deployed to the Area of Operations as part of a Visiting Contingent under this Agreement.

__Article 5

_
_Assisting Defence Force
__
(1)	Where an Assisting Defence Force is deployed as part of a Visiting Contingent, an Australian Defence Force member notified to Solomon Islands shall serve as its commander, with responsibility for the control of that Force. 
(2)	Members of an Assisting Defence Force shall remain under national command, except as otherwise determined in arrangements concluded under Article 20(3) of this Agreement.
(3)	Members of an Assisting Defence Force shall exercise the powers, authorities and privileges afforded to members of Royal Solomon Islands Police Force, where reasonably necessary to achieve the purposes of a Deployment.
(4)	In addition to the powers and authorities referred to in paragraph 3 of this Article, an Assisting Defence Force may take such action and use such force as is reasonably necessary to achieve the purposes of a Deployment.

__Article 7

__Entry and Exit

__  (1)	Solomon Islands authorities shall facilitate the entry into, and departure from, the Area of Operations of a Visiting Contingent. 
(2)	Members of a Visiting Contingent shall be exempt from any Solomon Islands Laws governing visas, immigration inspection and restrictions on entering into, or departing from, the Area of Operations. 
(3)	Members of an Assisting Defence Force may enter into, and exit from, the Area of Operations on presentation of military identification issued by the Assisting Defence Force. 
(4)	Solomon Islands shall grant all members of a Visiting Contingent exemption from any departure tax.
(5)	Members of a Visiting Contingent shall be exempt from any Solomon Islands Laws governing the residence of aliens in the Area of Operations, including registration, but shall not be considered as acquiring any right to permanent residence or domicile in the Area of Operations.

__Article 8

__Import and Export
__
(1)	A Visiting Contingent may import into, and export from, the Area of Operations without licence, other restriction or registration and free of customs, duties and taxes, and inspection, any Assets, together with personal effects of, and items for the personal consumption or use by, members of a Visiting Contingent.
(2)	Any personal property imported duty-free which is sold in the Area of Operations by members of a Visiting Contingent to persons other than those entitled to duty-free import privileges shall be subject to customs and other duties on its value at the time of sale.

__Article 9

_
_Movement and Use of Assets__
(1)	Members of a Visiting Contingent and all Assets shall enjoy freedom of movement throughout the Area of Operations.
(2)	A Visiting Contingent shall have the unimpeded right to the use of roads, bridges, canals and other waters, port and airfield facilities and airspace without payment of dues, tolls or other charges or fees throughout the Area of Operations. 
(3)	Members of a Visiting Contingent may possess, store and operate Assets without a permit or licence or restriction and free of duties, taxes and charges. 
(4)	A Visiting Contingent shall not be required to register or obtain licences for the use of Assets under applicable Solomon Islands Laws.
(5)	Where members of a Visiting Contingent are required to use vehicles, vessels, aircraft, or other equipment of Solomon Islands, in carrying out their duties, the use of those vehicles, vessels, aircraft and equipment shall be provided free of charge, unless otherwise mutually determined between the Parties.

__Article 11

Communications

__(1)	A Visiting Contingent shall have the authority to install and operate radio and satellite sending and receiving stations in the Area of Operations.
(2)	A Visiting Contingent shall enjoy the right of unrestricted communications by radio, television, telephone, mail or any other means and of establishing the necessary facilities for maintaining such communications within and between premises of a Visiting Contingent, including the laying of cables and land lines and the establishment of fixed and mobile radio and satellite sending and receiving stations. 
(3)	A Visiting Contingent may process and transport mail addressed to or sent from the Visiting Contingent or members of the Visiting Contingent. With respect to mail sent from Solomon Islands, such mail shall be processed free of charge.  Solomon Islands shall not interfere with the communications of a Visiting Contingent.

__Article 14

Uniform and Carriage of Weapons

__(1)	Members of a Visiting Contingent may wear their respective national uniform when on official duty in the Area of Operations.
(2)	Members of an Assisting Police Force or Assisting Defence Force may possess, carry and use arms in accordance with their internal orders or rules in order to:
__ (a)	protect themselves, other members of a Visiting Contingent or other persons;
(b)	protect public or private property, including property of the Visiting Contingent; or 
(c)	to achieve the purposes of a Deployment.
__Article 20
_
_
Third States

__  (1)	Australia, with the consent of Solomon Islands, may invite third states to contribute to a Visiting Contingent for a Deployment.
(2)	If this invitation is accepted, Solomon Islands shall enter into an arrangement with the third state, providing for the rights and obligations to be assumed by that third state and Solomon Islands under this Agreement.
(3)	Australia shall make separate arrangements with third states which contribute personnel to a Visiting Contingent, including further details in relation to the internal direction, command, control, discipline and administration of the Visiting Contingent.
_
One presumes the NZ agreement s similar.

----------


## OhOh

*US won’t rule out military action if China establishes base in Solomon Islands

*US won’t rule out military action if China establishes base in Solomon Islands | Solomon Islands | The Guardian

Why would they need one, if their agreement with the Solomon Island is the same as OZ/NZ? 

All they need is a request from OZ. Or negotiate the same agreements with the Solomon Island's government.

*China has fully militarized at least 3 islands in South China Sea: U.S. admiral*

                                                                                                    By                 Jim Gomez and Aaron Favila                                                          The Associated Press                                                      

                                                                             Posted March 20, 2022 8:15 pm                                                                                                                                       
                                                                      Updated March 20, 2022 8:16 pm

_"__China  has fully militarized at least three of several islands it built in the  disputed South China Sea, arming them with anti-ship and anti-aircraft  missile systems, laser and jamming equipment and fighter jets in an  increasingly aggressive move that threatens all nations operating  nearby, a top U.S. military commander said Sunday._ _U.S. Indo-Pacific commander Adm. John C. Aquilino said the hostile  actions were in stark contrast to Chinese President Xi Jinping’s past  assurances that Beijing would not transform the artificial islands in  contested waters into military bases. The efforts were part of China’s  flexing its military muscle, he said."

China has fully militarized at least 3 islands in South China Sea: U.S. admiral - National | Globalnews.ca_

Does China contest the islands, I suspect they believe they are their own sovereign islands.

Does the NaGastan, "_top U.S. military commander",_ have access to this:

*AGREEMENT BETWEEN* 
 *THE GOVERNMENT OF AUSTRALIA* 
 *AND* 
 *THE GOVERNMENT OF SOLOMON ISLANDS* 
 *CONCERNING THE BASIS FOR DEPLOYMENT OF POLICE, ARMED FORCES AND OTHER PERSONNEL TO SOLOMON ISLANDS*

----------


## panama hat

> Ok, I'll try to accommodate your requirements.


Stop posting?  Cool.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Stop posting?  Cool.


I think you mean "pasting".

----------


## Looper

*Why a desperate China has backflipped on Australian coal*

Coincidence? Possibly, at least in the timing. Connected? Definitely.

For a nation attuned to delivering results pre-ordained by its rulers rather than a reflection of actual performance, China's growth numbers last week took global investors and economists by surprise.

After months of Beijing insisting economic targets would be met, figures on Friday revealed China's economy veered sharply into reverse in the June quarter.

In any open democracy, that wouldn't have come as a shock. Vast parts of the country for months have been forcibly locked down as Beijing continues to adhere to its strict COVID-19 elimination policy.
Expectations China will reverse Australian coal ban


Expectations that China's leader Xi Jinping will reverse his unofficial ban on Australian coal imports are growing as the country's economic problems continue to mount.
Coal is loaded onto ships.
Read more

With about 375 million people across 45 cities under restrictions, including the financial centre Shanghai, consumers have been missing in action, China's major manufacturing hubs have been hobbled and shipping from some of the world's biggest ports have been disrupted.

Shortly before the data was released, and without warning, word leaked out via news agency Bloomberg that China was considering relaxing its ban on Australian coal, apparently after a mild thaw in relations following the election of the Albanese government and the first official discussions in three years between the foreign ministers.

As plausible as that may sound, the more likely explanation is that, with China's economy in danger of going off the rails, Beijing can no longer afford to inflict upon itself the kind of self-harm its trade sanctions have wreaked.

While the West understandably is pre-occupied with Beijing's military and diplomatic ambitions in the Pacific, the country has found itself under attack from within.
China coal tariff will affect Australia's mines
China's leadership is reportedly worried about a repeat of electricity shortages seen last year.(ABC News)

A souring real estate sector  for years the primary vehicle for firing up economic growth  is placing increasing pressure on the country's banking system as the casualty list of financially strapped property developers grows which, in turn, has incited widespread community unrest.

That's created a dilemma for President Xi Jinping in the lead-up to this year's crucial Communist Party Congress where his leadership is to be extended beyond the long-standing convention of a two-term limit.

It was Xi who ordered the real estate speculation clampdown five years ago and ramped it up three years ago. A backdown on such a signature policy would be embarrassing, but the risk of social upheaval from a property and banking crisis would be worse.

It has now collided with a broader economic slowdown brought on by a failed vaccination strategy that has necessitated China's COVID-zero strategy, the only major economy in the world to now be pursuing eradication.
Who paid the price for Chinas trade bans?

Certainly not Australia. While some sectors endured temporary hardships and inconvenience, many of our impacted industries found new markets.

When it comes to coal, the first major commodity to be hit, it was Chinese industry and Chinese households which bore the brunt of the trade bans.

As the world's biggest consumer of coal, power blackouts are not unusual in China. Last year, however, as industry began to fire up after the global economy recovered from pandemic lockdowns, cities across China were plunged into darkness during the northern winter.

Chinese buyers were forced to rely on Indonesia to fill the shortfall, which had the effect of pushing coal prices to record highs, a trend exacerbated earlier this year by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
China's trade war

How China is targeting a raft of Australian industries, including barley, wine, cotton, coal and beef.
A piece of land with the Australian flag and the Chinese flag next to each other with a big crack separating the two
Read more

More recently, with a brutal heatwave sweeping across China, it has stepped up its purchases of Russian coal, at steep discounts. But, at the risk of further inflaming global tensions, and with European buyers looking to Indonesia as energy sanctions against Russia are tightened, Beijing has been forced to bite the bullet and once again accept Australian coal.

Australian coal miners, meanwhile, have been raking it in. Coal exports have soared nearly 300 per cent in the past year and in May the commodity overtook iron ore as the country's most valuable export for the first time since 2009.

As an exercise in strategic regional domination, it was a spectacular own goal. Clearly, Beijing has decided keeping the lights on at home is a greater priority.
Chinas real estate market in meltdown

We all know how difficult it can be to raise the deposit for a first home. But in China right now, if you don't have the ready cash, garlic will do. Or watermelons. Even peaches.

Developers, desperate for any form of payment to shift property, have dressed up the policy as an attempt to help farmers buy real estate. In reality, it is being driven by plunging residential property sales, which are down 41.7 per cent in the year to May after 11 consecutive months of declines.

A growing line of once-thriving developers is queuing up to default on debts. China Evergrande was one of the first, joined in rapid succession by the likes of Sunac and Kaisa.
Putin and Xi in trouble

China and Russia shocked the world with their transformations. Now they are in financial strife, however, and the ramifications are just as global, writes business editor Ian Verrender.
Putin and Xi
Read more

The trend shows no sign of abating. On Sunday last week, Shimao Group confirmed it couldn't meet principal and interest repayments on $US1 billion ($1.47 billion) in foreign debt, blaming a decline in sales, a downturn in the macro environment for property and the ongoing impact of COVID-19.

Until now, foreign financiers have borne the brunt of the hit. But the crisis is beginning to swirl through the domestic banking system, leaving cash-strapped developers without support and unable to complete apartment blocks for which they already have taken deposits.

A mass strike now appears to be underway among buyers, who now are refusing to continue mortgage payments to their banks unless construction resumes. 

The protests, which appear to be gathering strength, filtered through to stock markets last week as bank and property companies again came under pressure, prompting concerns from Beijing.

In a belated effort to avert a financial crisis, state media outlets reported that regulators had stepped in to "guarantee delivery of homes", citing an unnamed official from the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission.

Property accounts for about 30 per cent of China's economy. The real estate meltdown in the past few years has hurt millions of ordinary citizens and the escalating unrest couldn't have come at a worse time, just months out from Xi's attempt to overturn Deng Xiaoping's two-term presidential limit.
Space to play or pause, M to mute, left and right arrows to seek, up and down arrows for volume.
Play Video. Duration: 4 minutes 51 seconds
China signals it is willing to soften it stance on Australia.
Daunting long-run challenges

For a nation that boasts one of the world's most rapidly ageing populations, China's vaccination rollout has been shambolic, particularly among the elderly.

Across the country, fewer than 20 per cent of those over 80 have had a booster. Even after a renewed effort since April, when Omicron first cut a swathe across the country, 89 per cent of all citizens may have had two shots but only 56 per cent of eligible people have received a booster.

In addition, there have been concerns about the effectiveness of China's homegrown vaccines and their ability to combat new COVID-19 variants, which is why the leadership has doubled down on its eradication strategy. China's hospital system would be unable to cope with a mass outbreak.
Space to play or pause, M to mute, left and right arrows to seek, up and down arrows for volume.
Play Video. Duration: 1 minute 22 seconds
WHO says China's COVID policy not 'sustainable'

That, however, has come at an enormous cost. The June quarter GDP figures revealed China's economy had shrunk by 2.6 per cent from the March quarter  the worst result since the 2020 pandemic-inspired economic collapse.

On an annual basis, the economy barely eked out a gain, up just 0.4 per cent and way below most predictions. Given the notorious unreliability of official Chinese data, many suspect the real situation is far worse.
China's young call themselves 'the last generation'

From unemployment to lockdowns, China's young people are facing intense challenges, and the pressure is on Xi Jinping to fix the situation. 
A huge group of masked commuters waiting to enter a train
Read more

But the nation faces even greater long-term challenges. China's population decreased last year for the first time since the Great Famine of 1960. Its working-age population peaked in 2014 and, on some estimates, its population could halve over the course of this century.

Until now, Chinese citizens have tolerated and accepted an authoritarian regime, primarily because it has delivered rising living standards. But with a pension system that provides significantly less support for the elderly than many developed nations, a shrinking workforce and an appalling productivity record, the pressures will continue to build on China's Communist Party if it hopes to maintain power.

At least, it may now be able to keep the lights on until after Xi secures his historic third term.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2022-07-18/why-china-backflipped-on-australian-coal/101246166

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## Looper

*Beijing warns AUKUS submarine project sets a 'dangerous precedent' and threatens non-proliferation*

China's government is ramping up its campaign against Australia's push to build nuclear-powered submarines with the United States and the United Kingdom, publishing a new report which declares the project is a grave risk to non-proliferation and warns that Australia may be intent on developing nuclear weapons.
Key points:

    The report warns the submarine deal would set a "dangerous precedent" by allowing nuclear states to transfer weapons-grade nuclear materials to a non-nuclear state
    It also claims Australia remains intent on acquiring nuclear weapons
    China has been rapidly expanding its own nuclear weapons arsenal in recent years

Two Chinese "think tanks"  the China Arms Control and Disarmament Association and China Institute of Nuclear Industry Strategy  held a press conference in Beijing yesterday with a host of state media outlets to launch the report, which is titled: A Dangerous Conspiracy: The Nuclear Proliferation Risk of the Nuclear-powered Submarines Collaboration in the Context of AUKUS.


The lengthy report berates Australia, the US and the UK for setting a "dangerous precedent" with AUKUS because it would allow nuclear states to transfer weapons-grade nuclear materials to a non-nuclear state for the first time.

"In addition, it ferments potential risks and hazards in multiple aspects such as nuclear security, arms race in nuclear submarines and missile technology proliferation, with a profound negative impact on global strategic balance and stability," the report reads.

Richard McGregor from the Lowy Institute said both think tanks were "part of the broader fabric of the Chinese party-state"  rather than independent entities  and that the report was part of an orchestrated campaign against AUKUS by the Chinese government.

"The [Chinese government] has long been campaigning on this and this report simply tries to flesh out their argument, add weight to it, and give them a document they can distribute to any country they want around the world to make their case," he said.

"Any roadblocks they can put in the way of AUKUS, they will put them there. We should expect this thing to happen for the next decade or so. China won't let up."
AUKUS plan revealed by March

Australia's future nuclear submarine plans are expected to be unveiled early next year, with the government also looking to detail its moves to fix a looming capability gap.
Australian Defence Force senior leadership appointments
Read more

Australia has already boosted resources in both Canberra and Vienna to help bolster its diplomatic defences against Russian and Chinese campaigns against the project.

However, Mr McGregor said the "uncomfortable fact" for Australia was that China "had an argument to make" when it pointed out that AUKUS would set a new precedent.

"I don't doubt Australia will strictly follow rules on non-proliferation [and] that nuclear grade material will be locked up inside the submarines for the life of the vessels and won't be used to make nuclear weapons," he said.

"But the Chinese can argue that once the US and the UK can do this for Australia, then any other nuclear country  say Russia  could say, 'OK, we can transfer similar material to, say, Iran for use in their submarines'," he said.

    "Now we might rightly trust Australia to handle this material correctly, but would we trust Iran to use it according to global rules? And there might be a different answer to those two questions."

Claims Australia wants nuclear weapons

The Chinese government report also makes more-outlandish claims that Australia remains intent on acquiring nuclear weapons, citing the federal government's "obsessive pursuit" of the technology back in the 1950s and 1960s under the Menzies government.

"Given the fact that Australia already has a body of nuclear weapons-related knowledge accumulated historically and that it will get into its hands nuclear-capable delivery systems, once the country takes the desperate step to develop nuclear weapons again, the lead time to a nuclear breakthrough will be too short for the international community to respond effectively," the report says.

It also says that nuclear weapons advocates in Australian academia have "resurged" recently, but only cites two recent articles to support that claim.

One of the two articles quoted does not even directly advocate for Australia to acquire nuclear weapons.
 Spectators wave Chinese flags as military vehicles carrying DF-41 ballistic missiles roll during a parade.
China is rapidly expanding its arsenal of weapons, including nuclear-capable missiles and warheads.(AP: Mark Schiefelbein)

Mr McGregor said the suggestion that there was a serious push within official and academic circles for Australia to acquire nuclear weapons was "obviously not true" and that the report's authors had "picked through" articles and the historical record to present a distorted narrative.

    "We can't even manage to get a consensus about having nuclear energy reactors. The idea we are going to rapidly become a nuclear weapon state is not credible," he said.

He also said it was worth noting the report was silent on China's rapid expansion of its own nuclear weapons arsenal.

"You're not going to get a balanced debate out of think tanks which are effectively arms of the Chinese party-state," he said. 

"We shouldn't be surprised by that and we shouldn't expect it.

"China complains relentlessly about the military build-up of other countries, say Japan for example, while its own military build-up dwarfs that of every other country around them."

In a statement, a spokesperson for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) said there were "numerous incorrect assertions" in the report.

"Australia, the US and the UK will implement the strongest possible non-proliferation standards to maintain the strength and integrity of the global nuclear non-proliferation regime in relation to nuclear-powered submarines," they said.

"The government has been very clear that Australia does not and will not seek nuclear weapons.

"Australia's decision to acquire conventionally armed, nuclear-powered submarines is something we are pursuing openly and transparently."

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2022-07-21/beijing-warns-aukus-nuclear-submarine-nonproliferation-weapons/101257714

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## harrybarracuda

What a load of typical chinky nonsense.

----------


## Looper

*Why Australian iron ore could save Taiwan as China ponders the economic ramifications of invasion*

As the dark clouds of war gathered over north-east Asia in 1938, a curious battle took place at home which forever tainted the memory of Liberal Party founder Sir Robert Menzies and that could be a portend of what lies ahead.


Sir Robert Menzies (centre) became known as 'Pig Iron Bob' after intervening in the Dalfram Dispute in 1938

Then-Attorney General in the Lyons government, Menzies became embroiled in a fight with waterfront unions in Port Kembla over the loading of a British steamer, the SS Dalfram, with BHP produced pig-iron bound for Japan.

The Lyons government had embargoed iron ore exports to Japan after its brutal invasion of China and the 1937 massacre in Nanking but, inexplicably, had allowed pig-iron  a crude processed form of iron  to be shipped.

Menzies decreed that only the government had the right to decide on relationships with foreign powers and goods to be traded. After a 10-week deadlock, it forced the unions to load the ship.

It was an event that caused the future prime minister to be dubbed 'Pig Iron Bob' and  after the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbour that saw Australia at war with Japan  he was taunted by jibes that he'd shipped iron ore to Japan before the war only to have the Imperial Army send it back in the form of bombs and bullets.

The incident went some way to dismantling the White Australia policy  along with the prejudice and racism of the time  after Chinese Australians showed their gratitude by providing the striking workers with fresh food. And, given the course of history, it is a stark demonstration of the futility and waste of war.
Two women, one in a white pant suit and the other in a grey and black pant suit, wave
The recent visit to Taiwan of US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (left) infuriated Beijing, including its Australian ambassador.(AP: Taiwan Presidential Office via AP)

Once again, we are facing a similar threat, but the tables have turned.

Japan now is a staunch ally and, instead, it is China rattling the sabre. After US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taipei, China's once charming Australian ambassador Xiao Qian last week shook off the sheep's clothing with a blunt and aggressive warning about where we stand as Beijing ramps up military drills around the island.

But, for all its rhetoric and threats, Beijing's power to call the shots may be limited. And the key weapon may well be that very same Western Australian red dirt.
Hard choices looming

For decades, we have straddled an inherently unstable ideological and diplomatic gulf. While our defence and diplomacy have been firmly aligned with the democratic West, our trade and commerce have increasingly been dominated by our dealings with a one-party, state-controlled China.

The time, however, rapidly is approaching when we may be forced to choose as China vies for strategic dominance in the Pacific.
Xi Jinping waves from a black vehicle as it drives through a parade of some 15,000 troops.
China has become increasingly aggressive in its foreign policy under President Xi Jinping.(Reuters: Thomas Peter)

It is a possibility that barely has registered in public debate and one few seem willing to confront, at least in public. Not even financial markets are factoring in the prospect of a violent upheaval in either our national income or to the revenues of the corporations that dominate our trading relationship.

For if Beijing does decide to take Taiwan by force, Canberra would be left with little option other than to impose trade restrictions.

Washington, Tokyo, London and Brussels would demand it. The idea we could continue supplying vital military ingredients to a global superpower threatening to up-end international stability through force would be inconceivable.

As unpalatable as that may seem, for the past five years, it has been Beijing that has used trade as a blunt weapon to bludgeon Australia.

It systematically has locked us out of its markets for almost everything from coal to lobsters using increasingly flimsy excuses about tainted grain, pest-infected wood, protected wine and whatever else to punish our perceived indiscretions.

There is only one commodity for it has steered well clear and that is iron ore. There is a good reason for that. Beijing can't afford to.

Australia supplies about 60 per cent of the world's iron ore, netting around $150 billion in 2020/21. The vast bulk of those shipments, almost 80 per cent, finds its way to China.

It's difficult to understate the importance of iron ore to China's economy. For decades, massive state-directed investment in infrastructure and private investment in property construction has helped boost growth, drive employment and avert recessions.
A man and woman bump elbows for the camera with the Australian and Chinese flags behind them.
Foreign Minister Penny Wong (left) tried to improve Australia's frosty relations with Beijing during a July meeting with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi in Jakarta.(Supplied: Australian Embassy in Jakarta)

It also has allowed the regime to build a vast military complex.

The breakdown in the relationship with Australia poses an acute threat to the Middle Kingdom at a time when it is facing enormous economic challenges on multiple fronts.

A rapidly ageing and shrinking population, rising and massive debt levels, slowing growth, a property meltdown and crackdowns on high-tech ventures have left the economy wounded and deeply scarred. Then there are the ongoing COVID-19 lockdowns wreaking havoc.

While China produces massive amounts of iron ore itself, it mostly is low grade, dirty and expensive. Brazil couldn't fill the breach and Beijing's ambitions to ramp up production in Guinea, West Africa will take years, and possibly a decade, to come to fruition.

That leaves it vulnerable and exposed to any immediate disruption to the trade.
What are Beijing's options?

For years, Beijing desperately has looked for alternatives. It has recognised that Australian iron ore, and its dependence on the trade, is its Achilles heel both from an economic and strategic viewpoint.

The most promising alternate source is the west coast of Africa in Guinea, where the giant Simandou project promises to fill the breach with around 2.5 billion tonnes of high-grade ore.
The Rio Tinto building external framed by another building and tree.
Perth-based Rio Tinto received good news last week about its lucrative Simandou project.(ABC News: Rebecca Trigger)

But for decades, the project has been mired in corruption and controversy, made all the more difficult by an unstable government and difficult terrain.

Rio Tinto  which has a controlling stake in the operation  first became involved in the project in the late 1990s and, along with everyone else involved, has faced international investigations over alleged bribery on the project for the past five years.

Just last week, however, the project appeared to be back on track. Rio, its Chinese government-owned partner, the Guinea government and a rival consortium agreed to bring the project to fruition, with the first shipments slated for 2025. 

Given it was supposed to be fully operational by 2015, and that the vital infrastructure  including port facilities and a 600-kilometre rail link  has yet to be built, there are legitimate doubts as to whether that timetable is feasible. And, in the event that trade sanctions are imposed upon Beijing, Rio Tinto's involvement may well be called into question.

Another possible sources of high-grade iron ore for China is the Donbas region of Ukraine. But again, with the ongoing war likely to continue for quite some time, developing that region may require a good deal more time than China could afford.
What does this mean for us?
Mining truck drives on red dirt at BHP's Jimblebar mine on a bright sunny day.
Australian iron ore remains critical for the Chinese economy due to the lack of equivalent alternatives.(ABC News: Rachel Pupazzoni)

Beijing's dependence on Australian iron ore potentially places us in a very powerful but extraordinarily difficult diplomatic situation.

Shutting off Australian iron ore would be a hammer blow to China's domestic economy for at least the next few years.

It would hurt here too. Our national income would take a massive hit, particularly in terms of federal tax income. Some of our biggest and most powerful corporations  many of which have profited hugely from China's economic transformation over the past three decades  would suffer the most.
Putin and Xi in trouble

China and Russia shocked the world with their transformations. Now they are in financial strife, however, and the ramifications are just as global, writes business editor Ian Verrender.
Putin and Xi
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Having profited from Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, which sent resource prices soaring, they would be forced to shoulder the burden of any aggression by China against Taiwan.

In relative terms, however, the hit to the Australian economy most likely would pale against the damage inflicted on China.

Australian mining overwhelmingly is dominated by foreign shareholders which means most of the profits flow offshore. Take Rio Tinto, the biggest operator in Australia. Its biggest shareholder is Chinalco  a Chinese state owned company  with 15 per cent.

Foreign investment houses, sovereign wealth funds and rich international investors all gravitate towards Australian miners given they are amongst the world's biggest. So, the income hit would be distributed well beyond our borders.

Even on the employment front, the effects  while devastating for those in the industry  would be manageable. Mining is a highly mechanised, capital intensive and hugely efficient operation.

The key difference between the two countries is that iron ore is an external source of income for Australia and a lucrative one at that. But for China, it is a vital ingredient that powers its internal growth.

If the western alliance were to impose trade restrictions or bans on Beijing that included iron ore, Premier Xi Jinping's ambitions for a One China could come apart at the seams as the economy tanks.

For all the military drills and the show of force over Taiwan in the past fortnight, the prospect of economic collapse resulting from trade bans on key raw materials would make Beijing think twice about an invasion of Taiwan.

At least for the next few years.

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2022-08-15/australian-iron-ore-could-save-taiwan-beijing-verrender/101332312

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## panama hat

> The key difference between the two countries is that iron ore is an external source of income for Australia and a lucrative one at that. But for China, it is a vital ingredient that powers its internal growth.
> 
> If the western alliance were to impose trade restrictions or bans on Beijing that included iron ore, Premier Xi Jinping's ambitions for a One China could come apart at the seams as the economy tanks.
> 
> For all the military drills and the show of force over Taiwan in the past fortnight, the prospect of economic collapse resulting from trade bans on key raw materials would make Beijing think twice about an invasion of Taiwan.


Key sentences

----------


## baldrick

a few more years and hopefully Australia will be exporting green steel

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## harrybarracuda

> a few more years and hopefully Australia will be exporting green steel


Along with the 'clean coal'?

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## panama hat

You need green coal to make green steel . . . sheesh!

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## hammer

Ha ha..Fentanyl,  spice , heroin all exported to the west  by China 
for profit  not historical vengance

----------


## Looper

*Manasseh Sogavare: Solomon Islands PM accuses Australia of interference*

The Solomon Islands' prime minister has accused Australia of interference over its offer to help fund an election he controversially wants to delay.


Manasseh Sogavare is seeking to defer the vote - due in mid-2023 - by seven months, a move critics say represents a turn towards authoritarianism.

Australia says there is nothing unusual about its offer of assistance.

Relations between the two countries have soured recently as Mr Sogavare's government grows closer with China.

Australia regularly offers financial and logistical support to Pacific countries for elections, including in previous polls in the Solomon Islands.

But Mr Sogavare says it is timed to influence how MPs will vote on a bill to change the constitution. If passed, the bill would allow the election to be deferred.

"This is an assault on our parliamentary democracy and is a direct interference by a foreign government into our domestic affairs," Mr Sogavare said in a statement.

Elections are usually held every four years, but the government is trying to delay the next poll until after the country hosts the Pacific Games in late 2023.

Mr Sogavare says the nation does not have the capacity to host both events in one year.

The country's opposition has called the proposed delay a "power grab" and asked for help from Australia, its largest aid donor.

Protesters have called for Mr Sogavare to step down twice in recent years, including at the last election.

The leader has been under pressure after signing a controversial security pact with China in April.

He has repeatedly criticised countries including Australia over their reaction to the deal, and threatened to ban foreign journalists after "demeaning" coverage.

Mr Sogavare is due to visit Australia and meet Prime Minister Anthony Albanese in the coming weeks.

Manasseh Sogavare: Solomon Islands PM accuses Australia of interference - BBC News

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## harrybarracuda

That must be the one the chinkies are paying off.

----------


## Looper

*Australia challenges China in mining for essential elements*

In the blood red dust of central Australia, mining firm Arafura is planning to build a mine and processing facility for highly sought-after elements.

Located 80 miles north of Alice Springs, the Nolans Project will be in one of the hottest and driest parts of the country.

Despite the extreme conditions, Arafura believes the investment will be worth it. The planned mine and processing facility could satisfy up to 5% of global demand for neodymium and praseodymium (NdPr), which are used in high-power magnets.


They are two of a group of so-called rare earth elements, that are essential to the electronics industry.

NdPr, europium, terbium and other rare earth metals that were once barely heard of are now commonplace in the manufacture of phone touchscreens, wind turbines and other modern technologies.

The mining of these minerals is an industry currently dominated by China, but geopolitical and trade forces are at work that could reshape the international market.
Rare-earth mine in Baiyun'ebo or Bayan Obo. Baiyun'ebo or Bayan Obo is a mining town in Inner Mongolia in China. The mines north of town are one the largest deposits of rare earth metals found in the world.Image source, Getty Images
Image caption,
China dominates the production of rare earth metals

Australia, a superpower exporter of iron ore and coal with rich mining traditions believes it is well-placed to join the race to exploit minerals that provide critical parts for electric vehicles and wind turbines.

"This could certainly be a game-changer for Australia. We are relatively well-endowed in rare earth elements," says Gavin Lockyer, managing director of Arafura Resources.

"This could really put Australia front and centre in the renewable sector.

"It is relatively easy to discover a rare earths deposit. What is difficult is finding a deposit that has economic quantities of the valuable materials."

Rare earths are a collection of more than a dozen elements on the periodic table. They are not particularly rare, but actually fairly plentiful in the Earth's crust.

Geoscience Australia, a government research agency, says they have broad industrial, medical, domestic and strategic applications "because of their unique catalytic, nuclear, electrical, magnetic and luminescent properties".

They are used in "magnets and super magnets, motors, metal alloys, electronic and computing equipment, batteries, catalytic converters, petroleum refining, medical imaging and lasers".

Europium is found in fluorescent lighting, gadolinium in nuclear power rods and ytterbium in solar panels.
Metal trading Company Haines and Maassen GmbH in Bonn, The company trades mainly with the rare earth elements and specialty metals.Image source, Getty Images
Image caption,
Rare earth metals have become essential in the production of electronics

Mr Lockyer points out that some of the latest technology relies on their properties.

"It is important to note that an electric vehicle might only have AUD$200 (£120; $140) or so of NdPr in it, but without it that electric vehicle will not work efficiently. Similarly with the wind turbines," he adds.

In a time of war and menace, the valuable metals have strategic value and are used in fighter jets, guided missiles and drones along with other high-tech equipment for space exploration.

Australian firm Lynas Rare Earths has been contracted by the United States Department of Defense to build a multimillion-dollar processing facility in the US in a bid to reduce its reliance on China for strategic minerals.

Lynas is the world's only significant rare earths producer outside China and runs the Mount Weld mine in Western Australia.

"We look forward to not only meeting the rare earth needs of the US government, but also reinvigorating the local rare earths market," Lynas managing director Amanda Lacaze told the Australian Broadcasting Corp.
Jennifer Granholm, US Secretary of Energy, speaks at the Sydney Energy Forum on July 12, 2022, in Sydney.Image source, Getty Images
Image caption,
US Secretary of Energy Jennifer Granholm warned of China "big-footing" technology for renewable energy

The US Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm warned recently at a conference in Sydney that China was "big-footing" renewable energy technology and supply chains.

Beijing's control of the supply of rare earths has been documented by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (Aspi), an independent think tank based in Canberra.

It noted how the minerals have become weapons of diplomacy following a 2010 collision between a Chinese fisherman and Japanese patrol boats near a disputed chain of islands. Beijing complained about the "illegal interception" of its trawlers and retaliated.

"We saw the Chinese government stop rare earth supply to Japan as part of its economic coercion against the Japanese government," says Aspi analyst Albert Zhang.

"Since then, what countries have noticed is that there is a risk by having only one major supplier of rare earths [and] such an essential raw material isn't beholden to just the political will of one government. Australia has the materials and the right sort of companies and capital investment to diversify the world's supply chain."

Australian experts have said that more recently China threatened to limit rare earth shipments to American defence contractors because of US arms sales to Taiwan.
Employees work at the assembly line of a wind turbine produced for France's future first wind farm off Saint-Nazaire, at the General Electric plant of Montoir-de-Bretagne, Britany, on September 15, 2020.Image source, Getty Images
Image caption,
Rare earth metals are used in the powerful magnets inside wind turbines

John Coyne, who is in charge of Aspi's Northern Australia Strategic Policy Centre, also warns that China will not easily surrender its vice-like dominance of the international rare earths sector. He alleges that Beijing uses its "power and market-distortion tactics to strategically flood the market when it wants to drive out competitors and deter new market entrants".

"Australia has the world's sixth-largest reserves of rare earth minerals. However, they remain largely untapped with only two mines producing them," he says.

"There is significant potential in the establishment of multi-ore mineral-processing hubs in Australia. After all, there is no point in creating supply chain resilience for [rare earth] ores if miners must still send them to China for processing."

China's Global Times said Beijing would welcome "benign competition" to "improve production capacity" in the industry.

The newspaper added that "the US and some of its allies, in their pernicious and selfish attempt to contain China's rise, has brought toxic geopolitics to the crucial rare earth industry as well as other economic and trade fields".

Australia challenges China in mining for essential elements - BBC News

----------


## harrybarracuda

The chinkies will start dumping again.

----------


## panama hat

> The chinkies will start dumping again.


Good . . . until they run out.  Fuk 'em.

----------


## Looper

*US Air Force to deploy nuclear-capable B-52 bombers to Australia as tensions with China grow*

The United States is preparing to deploy up to six nuclear-capable B-52 bombers to northern Australia, a provocative move experts say is aimed squarely at China.


An investigation by Four Corners can reveal Washington is planning to build dedicated facilities for the giant aircraft at Tindal air base, south of Darwin.

The US has drawn up detailed plans for what it calls a "squadron operations facility" for use during the Northern Territory dry season, an adjoining maintenance centre and a parking area for "six B-52s".
Blueprint plans for an air base. Diagram shows the locations of six bomber aircraft in a row.
Plans for the Tindal air base expansion include a parking area that can accommodate six B-52 bombers.(Supplied/Four Corners: Lindsay Dunbar)

Becca Wasser from the Centre for New American Security says putting B-52s in northern Australia is a warning to China, as fears grow Beijing is preparing for an assault on Taiwan.

"Having bombers that could range and potentially attack mainland China could be very important in sending a signal to China that any of its actions over Taiwan could also expand further," she says.

The bombers are part of a much larger upgrade of defence assets across northern Australia, including a major expansion of the Pine Gap intelligence base, which would play a vital role in any conflict with Beijing.

The B-52s have been the backbone of the US Air Force for more than 60 years, with the capability to deliver long-range strikes of both nuclear and conventional weapons. The US documents say the facilities will be used for "deployed B-52 squadrons".

"The ability to deploy US Air Force bombers to Australia sends a strong message to adversaries about our ability to project lethal air power," the US Air Force told Four Corners.

Asked when the B-52s would begin their deployment at Tindal, Australia's Department of Defence declined to comment.
'The tip of the spear'


Some worry having B-52s rotating through Tindal each year locks Australia into joining the US in any conflict against China.

"It's a great expansion of Australian commitment to the United States' war plan with China," says Richard Tanter, a senior research associate at the Nautilus Institute and a long-time, anti-nuclear activist.

"It's a sign to the Chinese that we are willing to be the tip of the spear."

Mr Tanter sees the planned deployment of the bombers as more significant than the rotation of US Marines through Darwin each year.
A line of soldiers silhouetted in the dust from a helicopter, march in single file. They are wearing gear and holding rifles.
US marines and Australian soldiers conduct annual exercises in the Top End.(ABC News)

"It's very hard to think of a more open commitment that we could make. A more open signal to the Chinese that we are going along with American planning for a war with China," Mr Tanter says.

Ms Wasser says the growing importance of northern Australia to the US makes Darwin and Tindal targets in any war with China.

Her work includes running war game exercises to examine how a potential conflict might unfold.
Space to play or pause, M to mute, left and right arrows to seek, up and down arrows for volume.
Play Video. Duration: 1 minute 1 second
Military analyst Becca Wasser and her team explore the risks Australia could face by joining the US in a fight over Taiwan.

She says in the war game scenarios where Australia either joined the fight or allowed Washington to use bases in the Top End, "it did very much put a bullseye on Australia". 

Ultimately these attacks were not successful because of the long range required and because China had already expended its most capable long-range missiles earlier in the game,  but who's to say that in the future, China might have more advanced missile capability that would be better suited to potentially attacking Australia. 
China's growing confidence about Taiwan invasion

In recent months, US war planners and analysts have brought forward estimates of when Beijing may look to take Taiwan.

"The time frame for an assault on Taiwan, I would put it at 2025 to 2027," says defence academic Oriana Skylar Mastro from Stanford University.

"This is largely dependent on when I think the Chinese leadership and in particular [President] Xi Jinping can be confident that his military can do this."
A still from a Chinese military video showing a missile launching amid trees, sending clouds of smoke out below it.
A missile launch from a Chinese military propaganda video.

She says there is a growing confidence within the People's Liberation Army that it could successfully invade Taiwan.

"For 15 years I would ask the Chinese military if they could do this [invade Taiwan], and the answer was 'no'. So the fact that for the first time at the end of 2020 they're starting to say 'yes', I think that's a significant message we should pay attention to," she says.
US has big plans for Australia

These growing tensions with China have made northern Australia a crucial defence hub for the US, which has committed to spending more than $1 billion upgrading its military assets across the Top End.

The Tindal air base expansion includes a parking area that can accommodate six B-52 bombers and is forecast to cost up to $US100 million. The US Air Force says the parking area will be finished in late 2026.

"The RAAF's ability to host USAF bombers, as well as train alongside them, demonstrates how integrated our two air forces are," it says.
A photo taken looking up at a massive military aircraft. A soldier is pushing a tow bar towards its front wheel.
B-52s have been the backbone of the US Air Force for more than 60 years.(U.S. Air Force photo)

In April, the US Department of Defence budgeted $US14.4 million ($22.5 million) for the squadron operations and maintenance facilities at Tindal.

"The [squadron operations] facility is required to support strategic operations and to run multiple 15-day training exercises during the Northern Territory dry season for deployed B-52 squadrons," the US documents say.

The US also plans to build its own jet fuel storage tanks and an ammunition bunker at the site.

"The north of Australia in the new geopolitical environment, has suddenly become strategically much more important, if not crucial to the US," says Paul Dibb, a former senior official at the Department of Defence in Canberra.

A greater presence of US forces in Australia was hinted at during last year's annual ministerial meetings, known as AUSMIN.

Under so-called "enhanced air co-operation" it was agreed there would be "rotational deployment of US aircraft of all types in Australia".

"Today we endorse major force posture initiatives that will expand our access and presence in Australia," US Secretary of Defence Lloyd Austin said.
A photo of a B-52 bomber aircraft flying over desert under a blue sky.
B-52s can deliver long-range strikes of both nuclear and conventional weapons.(U.S. Air Force photo)

There was no mention of rotating B-52s through Tindal, although there have been hints in recent years.

Equally important to the growing US presence in northern Australia is the construction of 11-giant jet fuel storage tanks in Darwin.

Some of this fuel reserve was previously located at Pearl Harbour in Hawaii, but is now being dispersed across the region.

"Without that kind of assurance of jet fuel in this country, the US simply wouldn't be able to treat Australia as a location from which it can stage military exercises and operations with confidence," says Ashley Townshend from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Mr Townshend says the B-52s at Tindal are just the start.

"We will see much greater numbers of US military personnel forward located in Australia. That will include personnel from all three services, navy, air force and army, as well as the marines in Darwin, which are likely to be expanded," he says.

In the AUSMIN communique, this was flagged as part of efforts to "advance  force posture co-operation" to "deter our adversaries".  
Spy base expands

While both governments have signalled the growing US military presence in Australia, the expansion of one site is veiled in secrecy. There has been very little said about Pine Gap.

The joint US and Australian spy base near Alice Springs is undergoing a major upgrade, according to Richard Tanter.
Large golf ball-like domes and low set buildings are surrounded by trees and bush. Behind them are hills.
Powerful antennas eavesdropping on foreign satellites and detecting missile launches sit under Pine Gap's domes.(Four Corners)

He's spent months poring over satellite images of Pine Gap and estimates the number of giant antennas has grown by more than a third over the past seven years.

"This is at a time when the Australian Parliament has been informed of none of this, no statements by ministers no questions by politicians," he says.

Mr Tanter says Pine Gap's powerful "ears and eyes" are now heavily focused on China.

"The searching for Chinese missile sites, the searching for Chinese command sites, in a preparatory way, is absolutely on high priority at Pine Gap now," he says.

"This indicates the extraordinary importance and the increasing importance to the US at a time of potential war with China."
A satellite image shows a number of buildings and domes on a site surrounded by red dirt.
Mr Tanter has observed the expansion of the spy base over a number of years.(Google/Maxar Technologies)

If a conflict broke out between the US and China, Mr Tanter says Pine Gap would play a hugely significant role, particularly around missile defence systems.

"Pine Gap would be detecting the launch of the missile  it would be queuing US missile defence systems to find that missile in mid-flight and attack it with their own missiles," he says.

Pine Gap's geo-location technology would then be used to find and destroy the missile launch site.

Paul Dibb, who held a high-level security clearance at Pine Gap for 30 years, says "it is the most potent intelligence collection facility that America has" outside of the US.

Mr Dibb says this put Pine Gap on targeting lists for the former Soviet Union during the Cold War, and it would be on those same lists for China in any conflict with the US.

"If it looked as though that crisis was going nuclear, China may want to take out Pine Gap as being the ears and eyes of America's capability," he says.

Watch tonight on ABC TV or ABC iview as Four Corners explores what conflict with China would mean for Australia.

Read the story in Chinese: 阅读中文版

https://www.abc. net.au/news/2022-10-31/china-tensions-taiwan-us-military-deploy-bombers-to-australia/101585380

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