#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Teaching In Thailand >  >  How to beat the Khurusapah teacher licensing process...

## gaysexbyproxy

On the advice of Withnallstoke, I'll put up a thread about my experience completing the Teachers' Council of Thailand licensing process the 'old-fashioned way', in other words, lacking a teaching license from one's home country. Hopefully, some tips and advice can be helpful for others attempting it now or in the future.

*A little background*: I moved to Thailand and began working for a large public high school that employed about 25-30 foreign teachers in the month of September. A small number of those teachers had qualifications from their home country, and thus were eligible to get a Thailand license by merely taking the 'Thai Culture and Teaching Ethics' class, but most, like me, did not. Therefore (and this was about 2.5 years ago), everyone was informed that teachers who had been in Thailand for two or more years or were approaching it were required to begin completing the licensing process. 

The affected teachers at my school (more than a dozen) had just taken the Culture/Ethics course and were awaiting their certificates. It took about four months for them to receive the certificates, even after paying about B4500 each for the privilege of taking the course. They were all going to sign up for the tests offered the following January in Bangkok. The sign-up and payment for the tests were due about two months before the actual tests. As I had not worked in Thailand before, I was not required to take the tests, but I suppose in a spirit of cameraderie or to get kudos from my new boss I said what the hell and signed up and paid for all four tests.

*Initial preparation*: Materials to prepare for the test were hard to locate. We heard that there was a course to prepare teachers for the tests, but they were several months long, expensive, and located far from where we lived, so that was definitely out. Never looked into it again. We found a reading list for books that would prepare for the tests. Here is the list:

Curriculum Development
Wiles, Jon and Bondi, Joseph (1989), *Curriculum Development*: *A Guide to Practice* Third Edition, New York: MacMillan

Instructional Method / Learning Management
Burden, Paul R. and Byrd David M. (1999) *Methods for Effective Teaching* Boston: Allyn and Bacon
Kameenui, Edward J.; *Designing Instructional Strategies*. Columbus; Merrill Publishing Co.

Educational Psychology
Lefrancois, Guy R. (1999) *Psychology for Teaching* Stanford, CT; Wadsworth
Slavin, Robert E. (2003) *Educational Psychology* Seventh Edition. Boston: Allyn and Bacon

Classroom Management
Owens, Robet G. (19991) *Organisational Behaviour in Education* Seventh Edition. Boston: Allyn and Bacon

Educational Technology
Heinich, Robert (1993) *Instructional Media and the New Technologies of Instruction*

Educational Evaluation
Worthen, Blaine R. (1998) *Educational Evaluation* Sixth Edition
Howell, Kenneth W. (1987) *Curriculum-Based Evaluation for Special and Remedial Education* Boston: Merrill Publishing

Educational Research
Best, John W. (2003) *Research in Education* Ninth Edition, Boston: Pearson Education

Teachership
Parkay, Forrest W. (1992) *Becoming a Teacher*.Boston: Allyn and Bacon.

Needless to say, none of us were going to buy and read all of these books, so I went on scribd.com and glanced at the ones that were available, copied parts of each table of contents, then hit the internet to read a summary of major points in each, for example the philosophies of learning.

There was also a review handbook put out by an outfit called the Siam Knowledge Transfer Center. Their contact info (and it could be old) is:

Ph: 02.379.7239
Address:
4/516 Sahakorn Village Soi 21, Serithai Rd. (Soi 57), 
Klong Kum, Bangkok 10240 Thailand

(sorry, no email available)

This info is from the front of my review handbook, which was procured by somebody I don't know and photocopied by a teacher at my school, then distributed to the rest of us. It was produced in 2008, and though it is quite old, I think it was useful. It helped me as a primer for some of the many topics covered in each of the 4 tests' nine sections. It also had some practice questions at the end of each unit. I still have several copies of this book, so PM me and maybe we can work something out for sending you a copy in the mail. I must point out that some of the info in this handbook, for example concerning classroom technology, is totally outdated and the tests cover more up-to-date technological information.

I failed to read three important documents, the Basic Education Core Curriculum from 2551, the National Education Act of 2542 and the Teachers and Educational Personnel Act of 2546 (all available as pdf online), because I didn't know about them at the time. I did read them later, which turned out to be useful, and I suggest you do, too.

Most of the teachers at my school initially planned to study together, but we never really did. We then went to take the tests in Bangkok, which were at a technical college in Thonburi--the location changes often, I think, and are available in Chiang Mai, Khon Kaen, and Songkhla as well if I'm not mistaken--which were held on a Saturday and Sunday. 

*The tests*: Each test was 150 questions long and had a 2.5 hours time limit. The cost of each test was B1000 and they could be done all together or a la carte. I took all four. I'm told that it is acceptable to just attempt one, and even if you fail it, you qualify for a waiver that gives you another year to attempt again. 

The test topics and subtopics were: 
1 Language and Technology for Teachers
- English languages for teachers
- Information technology for teachers
2 Curriculum Development
- Philosophy concept and theory of education
- Historical background and system of educational management in Thailand
- Future goals and development plan of Thai Education
- Curriculum theory
- Curriculum development
- Standards and curriculum stage standards
- Institution curriculum development
- Problems and trend in curriculum development
3 Learning Management
- Techniques and learning theory
- Learning models and teaching-learning model development
- Learning experience design and management
- Integration of learning substance groups
- Integration of group learning
- Learning management techniques and technology
- Production and implementation of media and learning innovation development
- Learner-centered management
- Learning evaluation
4 Psychology for Teachers
- Foundation of human development psychology
- Educational psychology
- Guidance and counseling psychology
5 Educational Measurement and Evaluation
- Principles and techniques of educational measurement and evaluation
- Production and implementation of educational measurement and evaluation tools
- Authentic assessment
- Portfolio assessment
- Performance assessment
- Formative and summative evaluation
6 Classroom Management
- Management theory and principles
- Educational leadership
- Systematic thinking
- Organizational culture learning
- Organizational human relations
- Organizational communication
- Classroom management
- Educational quality assurance
- Teamwork
- Academic project performance
- Occupational training project
- Development projects and activities
- Management information systems
- Education for community development
7 Educational Research
- Theory, model, design and process of research
- Statistics for research
- Classroom action research
- Research training
- Research presentation
- Research study in development of learning management process
- Research process in problem-solving
- Research proposal
8 Educational Innovation and Information Technology
- Educational concepts, theory, technology and innovation to promote learning quality development
- Technology and Information
- Problem analysis of using technology and information innovation
- Learning sources and network
- Designing, creation, implementation, evaluation and improvement of Innovation
9 Teacher Professionalism
- Importance of teaching profession
- Teachers’ role, duty and workload
- Teaching profession development
- Characteristics of good teachers
- Building good attitudes towards teaching profession
- Fulfilling potential and competence in practice of teaching profession
- Being learning persons and academic leaders
- Professional teaching standards
- Professional code of ethics
- Education laws

Topics were grouped together like this:
Test 1: -Language and Technology for Teachers
-Educational Innovation and Technology
Test 2: -Curriculum Development
-Learning Management
-Classroom Management
Test 3: -Educational Measurement and Evaluation
-Educational Research
Test 4: -Psychology for Teachers
-Teacher Professionalism

*About each test*: 50% correct answers is required to pass each test. I think anybody would tell you that Test 1 is easy and any native speaker can pass it. They would also tell you that Test 2 is the hardest. I've seen some statistics on the pass rates for each one, and those reflect my feelings on it as well.

*Test 1*: 75 of the 150 questions were grammar questions. The other 75 were softball questions about the purpose of learning. After this test, everyone was ecstatic thinking all four tests were going to be that way. How wrong we were, because...

*Test 2*: Was horribly translated from the Thai test to English. Sometimes, the question was hard or impossible to understand the intent. Sometimes, the answers were. Sometimes, both. Often, multiple answers seemed to be correct, even when they were intelligible. The mood after this test was grim and angry. Many test-takers, including some from my school, were basically saying fuck this I'm out of here, or well I'm just going to superficially complete the last two tests and get the waiver. Everyone's spirit for passing the tests was thoroughly extinguished by Test 2. It was though they made the test so hard to interpret, not in content, but in understanding what was required, on purpose so many people would fail it. There were many conspiracy theories bandied about.

*Tests 3 and 4*: Were difficult for the same reasons as Test 2, but less so. I personally thought Test 4 was easier than 3, but some people disagreed with me. These two tests both contained topics that were never included in any of the preparation materials that I knew about. Since it's been a long time, I'm not in the best position to illustrate exactly which obscure topics surprised me, but I do think that reading the three legislation documents would have helped immensely. The translation of Test 4 was slightly better than 3 and definitely 2, but still quite poor.

I passed Tests 1, 3 and 4 on the first try. The other teachers I was with all passed Test 1 and one guy passed Test 4 as well. Everyone else just passed one. The results for the test took about two months to be released, and when they were released (online) most of our personal information was totally mismatched. So, we didn't know whose scores matched whose information from our school. Needless to say, we were all pretty pissed because we felt we spent a lot of time and money to be jerked around. After several lengthy phone calls which amounted to nothing, I sent several emails to Khurusapah begging for someone to clarify which teachers from my school passed which tests. After a few weeks, someone emailed me to tell me I had specifically passed the three tests and encouraging me to pass test 2 again. I never really did find out what my scores were at that time. The certificate (single) to show I passed 1, 3 and 4 arrived about four full months after I took the test. Waiting for these things was frustrating and made me conclude that Khurusapah is a bunch of bullshitters who just want your money and have no intention of facilitating you actually getting the license.

Almost immediately afer that, the deadline for signing up and paying for the next round of tests was approaching, so emboldened, I decided to take Test 2 again. This time it was at a different location at a public high school in the north of Bangkok, on my birthday of all days. 555

*To prepare for re-taking Test 2*: I started by re-reading everything I had read before. I scoured the internet for advice on Test 2 and found a few things that were helpful. I read the legislation documents, which were indeed helpful, especially on the structure of the public school system. I read more about the education philosophies, although there really weren't that many questions about it on the test. 

*Taking Test 2 again*: I knew I had gotten a majority of the questions wrong the first time. I also guessed that the test would be exactly the same as the previous time--and was entirely correct on that, shit poor quality of translation and organization and all--so I decided to determine my first choice answer for each question or even try to recall my previous answers. Then, I thought about it carefully as if I was an old Thai person who was full of themself. Many of the questions were in a format of...you have X problem, who do you go to to address it? I decided that for every question like that, I would answer it was my duty to defer to my direct supervisor. I also tried to vacate any sense of Western logic or professional responsibility. Well, it seemed to work. I actually found out my score, which was 81/150. Fuck yeah. Through some patient emailing, I found out that my original Test 1 score was 132/150, Test 3 was 77/150 and Test 4 was 88/150. I also found out that the passage rate for Test 2 the first time I took it was 17% (which seemed surprisingly high).

A month after I got the score (2 months after the test), I got another certificate for the topics covered in Test 2. Now, I just needed to take the 'Thai Culture and Teaching Ethics' course.

*The course*: I recommend strongly that you do not waste your time and money on this course until you pass the tests. You will not learn anything you don't already know about Thailand or ethics. You will probably consider the whole affair to be mildly to infuriatingly patronizing and condescending. Not to mention quite expensive and time-consuming. I could write forever about how much bullshit that course involved.

In the eyes of Khurusapah, a person who completed the course and somebody who bombed a single one of the four tests (at only B1000 a pop) are the same when it comes to getting a license waiver. And you can get that waiver forever, according to my understanding. Better to spend B1000 a year and go get the waiver than B4,500 or more plus at least 2 nights in a hotel and expenses, on a Friday-Saturday-Sunday. You're going to have to go to Bangkok anyway, regardless of which one you do. And know this: the course will not in any way prepare you or help you to do well on the tests. The topics are not in any way related.

My certificate for completing the course took more than two months to arrive, which thoroughly pissed me off, as it was then all I needed to submit my documents for the license.

Another thing about the course, it seems that it is being offered less and less frequently as time goes on, at less institutions, and with higher fees. One of the organizers of my course, who was a nice professor of communications from Suan Dusit Rajabhat University, told me that dealing with the Khurusapah people was such a pain in the ass, that despite the good revenue from holding the course, they were unlikely to want to continue in the future. And I can completely understand it. One of the things we did in the seminar was a group assignment where we were to illustrate and lecture about one point of teacher ethics. We did brief PowerPoint presentations. At the time when my group was presenting, coincidentally one of the most stimulating and useful parts of the whole affair, some bigwigs from Khurusapah walked in and demanded we halt everything because they were there to teach us Thai dancing. Muppets.

So, once I had all of my certificates, I got the HR people at my school to check the Thai language Khurusapah website for checklists of required documents. This was indeed crucial because the English-language Khurusapah website is rubbish and infrequently updated. I also asked them to call and verbally confirm the checklist posted online, also a good thing, because there were a few minor items that the online information was unclear about. Another thing, which was very important in preparing the documents was that I asked them to put a school stamp with the Director's stampled signature on each and every item, even my passport copy. I then manually signed and dated each copy.

I took everything to Khurusapah on a weekday in Bangkok, being sure to get there extra early. I submitted the documents, and they unthinkingly gave me applications for the waiver. I asked them to review the documents and they said it was unnecessary, just fill out the form and give a photo and the waiver could be granted. I really had to beg them to look at my full packet of documents, and when they did, they were pretty much shocked. Two of the three workers in the little foreigners' office said they had never seen all of the complete materials done up properly before. They got on the phone and called down a supervisor who was very congratulatory. They invited me into their little office for coffee and snacks and I chilled at a desk while they went over everything. In about 30 minutes, they told me I could pay my B500 fee for applying for the license, pick up my temporary letter of proof at another window and go. I started to protest for just a moment, since the Culture course people had given me a receipt for paying exactly that fee (the reaction of the ladies in the office that day was "We don't know who fooled you, but that receipt means nothing to us..."), but then I said fuck it and paid the fee. In 5 minutes, I was out the door.

Less than 1 month later, my license certificate and ID card arrived. That was a great day. 

Well, sorry if that was a lot of rambling, but I'll try to put my advice in a list of *15 things*, in no particular order, *that I advise*:

1) You will pass Test 1 unless your English ability is well short of a native speaker. If all you aspire to is a waiver (and there's nothing wrong with that), just take and pass Test 1, wait for the certificate, file for the waiver, and you're golden until at least another year. It doesn't matter how many times you fail, there's no limit. You don't have to take all 4 tests every time to attempt to pass.

2) If you care to take the tests over time in a sequence that yields positive results, I suggest you take them in this order: Test 1, Test 4, Test 3, Test 2. If you take two at a time, take Tests 1 and 4 the first time around. When you go to the test, take multiple pencils, erasers, and pens of several colors. Despite the guidelines posted online or even written on the test itself, the actual people proctoring the test will tell you to do whatever it is they prefer on that test day.

3) If you take Test 2, try to think like an old Thai person with poor English skills. What would they answer? If there's a chain-of-command question, answer the next step up from yourself. Discard Western logic as much as possible. Discard any sense of professional accountability. Discard any good intentions. Just answer the way you think they would tell you to answer, as much as possible.

4) Find a copy of the 'Review Handbook I' published by Siam Knowledge Transfer Center. It's a good starting point. It will not cover everything, and some of the info is outdated, but it's worth your time.

5) Read the legislation documents (for example the National Education Act), they're all available in pdf format online. They were very helpful.

6) Skim over the table of contents for several of the books on the reading list, then search online for information that summarizes the topics. The topics listed for the books on Educational Evaluation and Education Philosophies were quite useful.

7) Search online for anecdotal advice from people who have taken the tests. There's a lot of it out there. There must be loads more since I searched. People have made lists of odd questions they remember. For example, why on earth is there a question on Test 4 about Thai teachers' pensions? Well, because the damn thing is translated from Thai. Every little bit of insight was helpful to me.

8) There are a lot of questions about 'special needs' students. There are a lot of questions about evaluation methods. There are a lot of questions about the structure of the public school system. There are a lot of questions which require knowledge of the job title of various people in your school, all the way up to the district and national level. There are a lot of questions which you need to know the names of organizations related to teachers, administrators, standardized testing. There are many questions which require knowledge of the stated purposes of each set of 3 grade levels in Prathom and Matthayom (ex. What is the purpose of lower-secondary education...?).

9) There is no reason to take the Culture and Ethics course before taking the tests. None. Waste of time and money. I was the only person out of about 60 (not limited to 30) people in the course who had taken the tests. They try to make it seem like the course will help you with the tests. It won't, not one bit.

10) Every step of the process will take a long time. Try not to get to frustrated by it. I am firmly convinced that Khursapah does not want people to readily pass the licensing procedures, especially foreigners. What's the logic in that, anyway? The national teachers union completely controlling the licensing? Sort of the fox guarding the henhouse, no? Long time between paying for the test and taking it. Long time between taking the test and getting the scores. High possibility of confusing or mishandled information related to the scores. Difficult to contact these people and get definitive and useful information. Long time to receive certificates...etc.

11) When you are ready to submit your documents to finally apply for the license. Do not trust the information the English-language Khurusapah website. It's old and they rarely update it. Have a motivated Thai person check it online, then double-check it by calling Khurusapah in Bangkok.

12) Have every document you submit stamped as officially as possible by your school. The school director's signature stamp is especially potent. Sign, print your name, and date everything by hand as well. Include copies of every page of everything (like your passport, work permit, etc) even if they are totally blank. The Khurusapah people will find any reason to reject your shit.

13) I know some people who have been successful in begging Khurusapah to license them, even though they didn't pass or, in one case attempt, the tests. For example, one fellow from my school had lived in Thailand for 15+ years and spoke fluent Thai. Was also around 50 years old. He somehow talked them into approving him claiming hardship due to his several Thai-born children. But then, he fucked it up because he didn't have his other documents in order. Guy could have skipped the whole process, but then didn't even have the proper copies of his work permit and other credentials. How unfortunate.

14) If you take the Culture and Ethics course, they will tell you they are collecting a fee B500 for me, heard it's now gone up, for the eventual license application fee. They will even give you a receipt. This is a scam. Politely decline.

15) Never trust the score information you receive from Khurusapah without inquiring for verification by email. Telephone calls yield nothing but wasted time. Even if everything seems to be clear, invent an excuse to email them and ask politely for someone to verify your scores. Kiss their ass, whatever, just as long as they look into your matter and confirm it. There is a good chance your personal information and scores have been mixed up with someone else.

Well, I'm sure there's some things I forgot. Maybe we can get some discussion going. There are some other useful threads on this topic out there I suppose. But they always seem to fizzle out. This is my first time weighing in on it. If anybody cares to see what the certificates, license or ID cards you eventually receive look like, PM me.

On a lighter note, I got stopped on my motorbike for the first time ever in my 2+ years living in Thailand by a cop, here in Chiang Rai. Not wearing a helmet. I don't even have a driver's license. Can't be bothered 555 Anyhow, I smile at the cop and hand him my teacher's license ID card, which is all in Thai and very official looking. He actually apologized, saluted me, and wished me a good day. Nice.  :bananaman:

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## Jesus Jones

I've heard so many complaints from colleagues who teach about this licence requirement.  I believe they have come to the conclusion the waver is the best opt out from stress of this issue.  Well done for passing it though!

Incidentally, a colleague decided to take an open university course (Australia) in education.  He believes this will exempt him from taking this course?  At greater expense of course but he believes it's worth it in the long run.

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## withnallstoke

What a sterling effort gaysex, both in your thread and in actually getting the licence. 
It pretty much backs up most of what i've heard, but as i said in the other thread, the stuff i heard was never from somebody who has actually done it themselves.

A fair bit to mull over, and i will pass this info on.

Cheers.

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## hazz

> 12) Have every document you submit stamped as officially as possible by your school. The school director's signature stamp is especially potent. Sign, print your name, and date everything by hand as well. Include copies of every page of everything (like your passport, work permit, etc) even if they are totally blank. The Khurusapah people will find any reason to reject your shit.


One thing I will say is never underestimate the importance of  rubber stamp, signed by someone important, within the thai civil service. 

I routinely see civil servants stamping and sighing every simple page of 1000+ page reports and financial statements, and without this the document is not valid.

I really would recommend that every piece of paper that the school generates, if not every page you submit, that you submit to the government should be stamped with the school seal/rubber stamp, countersigned by the most senior thai you can get your hands on.

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## Orroz

Of all the info I've had from forums and other sources on this licensing process, this is by far the best. Well done mate and congratulations on passing.

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## gaysexbyproxy

@Jesus Jones: I can't say this with any sort of authority, but I don't think enrolment in a course not certified by Khurusapah will do, even if it is an M.Ed program, as far as the waiver is concerned. It certainly would be a good idea for your buddy to have an influential Thai from his school inquire directly to their BKK office.

@hazz: Couldn't agree more with you. This goes for any document, not leaving anything to chance. They (meaning any bureaucrat) love to find any excuse to delay processing documents.

@Withnall and Orroz: thanks guys

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## benbaaa

*round of applause for gaysex*

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## withnallstoke

> round of applause for gaysex


Pervert.

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## hazz

> @hazz: Couldn't agree more with you. This goes for any document, not leaving anything to chance. They (meaning any bureaucrat) love to find any excuse to delay processing documents.


whilst some of it is bureaucratic cuntishness, one should rember that thailand has very strict and detailed rules about what civil servents should and should not do and the punishments for making a mistake, even a minor honest one are loss of job, pension and prison time.

Now its very true that these rules are applied sporadically on people who are essentially being punished for pissing off the wrong person. You should remember that the people you meet face to face are generally at the bottom of the career pyramid and have little backup. should the shit hit the fan they will be on their own. This environment would turn most people into cuntish jobsworths. 

When you are trying to get a civil servent to do something that the law allows them to do but they won't. you will find that its often fear of going against what they have been told to do thats stopping them, making a decision they could be asked to justify later. 
you have to think of a way to get what you want without them feeling all vulnerable. Thats usually getting their boss to tell them to just do it.

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## ralphlsasser

The Culture course was nothing but a way for the government to get more money out of the falangs and I refused to take it. The first money pit was the TEFL certificate. When that ran out, then the Culture course came up. When I refused, my director told me I had to take it or loose my job. I still refused and stayed 2 more years at the school before I decided to retired. Just more bullshit from the government.

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## baldrick

though it was only for curiosity that I read your ramblings , I would like to add that I think you have made a very good effort and contribution.

well done gaysexbyproduct  :Smile:

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## The Master Cool

Congrats mate, it sounds like a hell of an effort. In fact, it sounds like a joke.

It sounds Thai.  :Smile: 


Don't know how teachers here put up with such nonsense tbh, wouldn't it be not much more trouble or costly to get post-grad certification from home, like an iPGCE that can then be used all over the World, as opposed to some backwater joke like Thailand and that's it? It would presumably double your wages here in Thailand too as you could probably get into an International school.

I think if I was ever told I'd need to do something like that nonsense, the boss would hear me laughing all the way the over the horizon.  :Smile:  Fair play to you for bending over and gritting your teeth, it seems to have been worth it in the end.  :Smile:

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## gaysexbyproxy

Key points I seem to have overlooked: 

All test questions were multiple-choice with 5 possible answers. All four tests were precisely the same format.

There was a 'test' at the Culture/Ethics course, but the score was meaningless. It was the same test given at the beginning and end of the course. All they wanted to see was improvement. Nothing to stress about, and no need to prepare for it.

@TMC: You're absolutely right about it being meaningless outside of LoS and perhaps not the best overall option. I got started on it naiively thinking my superiors would be impressed I was going for it. They really weren't, but once I unexpectedly passed the 3/4 on the first try, I just felt like giving the whole system a fuck you and finishing it. 

The benefits, though rightly characterized as limited, I would describe as follows:

-Any public school will bend over backwards to give me a job. Since I don't teach English and don't want to (social studies), this is especially useful for getting and keeping positions where I want, teaching what I truly enjoy. I've gotten a sniff from a couple of international schools, and if the circumstances were favorable, might just make the difference between me and another motivated candidate. I've decided against heading home for a certification, so this is the best option for me right now.

-I make B7,000 more per month than I did without the license. Although it's not international school coin, it's more than paid for itself in the 8-9 months since I got it.

-My job security is virtually a given. That license is a feather in the cap of whoever employs me. 

-It has increased my esteem somewhat with the Thais I work with, which is easy to laugh at, but not totally worthless.

-It has streamlined my visa and work permit requirements, in paperwork, logistics and cost.

-On a personal level, it is valued by my current missus, who is also a government employee and cares about such things.

I don't spend a lot of time patting myself on the back about the whole thing. I don't think it demonstrates that I'm sort of better teacher. But, as with everything in Thailand, perception is paramount.

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## Dillinger

If Withnall can make you do all that with his typing finger
Imagine what he could do with his tongue

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## gaysexbyproxy

555 

I bet Slap knows  ::butters::

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## kingwilly

Great post, what a pain in the butt.

Incidentally, I know some teachers at NIST that were all required to go on the culture course.

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## The Master Cool

^^^^ Congrats again mate. There's quite a satisfying feeling about working hard to get ahead, making the grade, then it paying for itself within a number of months and forever thereafter. 

How long does it last for? And what do you need to do to ensure it's renewed?

As someone who obviously cares about teaching (in Thailand) as a career, and as a means for income, would you think of doing a distance PG course. For example an iPGCE (distance PGCE) or distance M.Ed to really get ahead?

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## gaysexbyproxy

TMC: I've heard that the renewal after 5 years may result in extra requirements, for example, attendance at seminars and continued education. Thankfully, the several I attend a year with my other coworkers issue certificates on-the-spot, so armed with a dozen or more of those plus a director's letter, I hope to be covered.

You're quite right about a distance course, except as an American, my options are limited to returning home for an extended period of time or doing a full online degree. Neither work for me, at least now. I have been accepted at an MBA program at a Thai university -- start in autumn -- and hope that the combined qualifications will put me over the top with intl school hiring. I do love teaching and am probably just about to start a family, too. I hope things work out as I envision them.

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## Thungsongsausage

Thanks for the post  :Smile:  I am taking the 4 tests in May and was looking for some decent information.

Well done mate.

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## The Master Cool

> I have been accepted at an MBA program at a Thai university -- start in autumn


Nice one. It's good to see people working hard to get ahead, then gain the rewards.  :Smile:

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## gaysexbyproxy

Doubt this will be really relevant to most TD members, but I'll share anyway.

Met a sharp techer from Ghana today. He's employed at a prominent public elementary school here in Chiang Rai. Evidently, when he submitted his TOEIC score and culture course certificate to Khurusapah (along with his identification, immigration and employment documents) they were so impressed that they allowed him to skip the tests. 

He's got the same card and certificate I have. Got it about 6 months ago. Good on him, he was a very nice guy. Was totally confused about what I meant when I asked him about the testing experience.

I guess it goes to show that the procedures can be flexible if it suits the bureaucrats involved.

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## The Master Cool

^ Perhaps an extra envelope was submitted with his certificates.  :Smile:

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## Dillinger

> am probably just about to start a family


Congrats Proxy, and good luck with the studies

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## tamadah

> ^ Perhaps an extra envelope was submitted with his certificates.


He said from Ghana, not Nigeria!

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## witbaas

> an extra envelop


Tried it 3 years ago. Didn't work.

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## ilushin

Congratulation Proxy!
Very useful information.

Good luck on your future degree and visions.

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## Old Monkey

I've been asked by local government employees to teach them english, in my house. I live in the country, close to the Burma border. They are worried about ASEAN in 2017. 
I was thinking of accepting, but I want to get good money for this. I have a Master's od Education from an American Polytechnic Institute, 8 years of experience teaching english as a foreign language in public High Schools in Canada and USA (4-4) and a permanent teaching certificate in Canada.
Some advice on how to proceed? This will be settled in April.

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## the dogcatcher

Or teach for a month for nothing and show that you are shit hot ie. (speaking English for 50 odd years should qualify you)
And get offered a job. Quick letter from the head to the government will be enough and "Bob is your Uncle" You're in.
That's what I did.

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## gaysexbyproxy

Old Monkey: Unless they're going to sponsor a visa and work permit for you, I doubt this requirement will ever come into play. Even if they did, I'm guessing you won't be asked for one since it's not employment with a school. I'd wait until they asked you for it to begin making any plans to pursue the Thailand license. You're already handsomely qualified. cheers-

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## luibkk

> Thanks for the post  I am taking the 4 tests in May and was looking for some decent information.


Take a look at the Thailand Teaching dot asia forum. They have a test takers group and a lot of info about the tests. Helped me to pass two of the four tests. Sitting the other two tests in May.

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## Old Monkey

> Old Monkey: Unless they're going to sponsor a visa and work permit for you, I doubt this requirement will ever come into play. Even if they did, I'm guessing you won't be asked for one since it's not employment with a school. I'd wait until they asked you for it to begin making any plans to pursue the Thailand license. You're already handsomely qualified. cheers-


Agreed, but would this be called working?
I would hate to be in trouble with immigration.
And I suppose that I could not get a work permit without having a school sponsor me.
So, 250 b/hour per student, minimum 5, two hours a day...
I know what to do when they're there, I just don't want them to think that this is cheap, then arrive late, no show 3 times out of 4, like thai teachers do around here.

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## jptouss

> This info is from the front of my review handbook, which was procured by somebody I don't know and photocopied by a teacher at my school, then distributed to the rest of us. It was produced in 2008, and though it is quite old, I think it was useful. It helped me as a primer for some of the many topics covered in each of the 4 tests' nine sections. It also had some practice questions at the end of each unit. I still have several copies of this book, so PM me and maybe we can work something out for sending you a copy in the mail. I must point out that some of the info in this handbook, for example concerning classroom technology, is totally outdated and the tests cover more up-to-date technological information.


Is this review handbook still available, do you still have copies?

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## gaysexbyproxy

Sure, I've got a few. Hit me with a PM when you can and we'll sort it out.

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## keekwai

> On the advice of Withnallstoke, I'll put up a thread about my experience completing the Teachers' Council of Thailand licensing process the 'old-fashioned way', in other words, lacking a teaching license from one's home country. Hopefully, some tips and advice can be helpful for others attempting it now or in the future.
> 
> *A little background*: I moved to Thailand and began working for a large public high school that employed about 25-30 foreign teachers in the month of September. A small number of those teachers had qualifications from their home country, and thus were eligible to get a Thailand license by merely taking the 'Thai Culture and Teaching Ethics' class, but most, like me, did not. Therefore (and this was about 2.5 years ago), everyone was informed that teachers who had been in Thailand for two or more years or were approaching it were required to begin completing the licensing process. 
> 
> The affected teachers at my school (more than a dozen) had just taken the Culture/Ethics course and were awaiting their certificates. It took about four months for them to receive the certificates, even after paying about B4500 each for the privilege of taking the course. They were all going to sign up for the tests offered the following January in Bangkok. The sign-up and payment for the tests were due about two months before the actual tests. As I had not worked in Thailand before, I was not required to take the tests, but I suppose in a spirit of cameraderie or to get kudos from my new boss I said what the hell and signed up and paid for all four tests.
> 
> *Initial preparation*: Materials to prepare for the test were hard to locate. We heard that there was a course to prepare teachers for the tests, but they were several months long, expensive, and located far from where we lived, so that was definitely out. Never looked into it again. We found a reading list for books that would prepare for the tests. Here is the list:
> 
> Curriculum Development
> ...


...or...

PLAN B: Move to another country.

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## keekwai

Well plan B worked out well, but I'm thinking of returning to Thailand for a while now that the old Junta is gone and new Education Minister was put in place last year. He's scrapped the old plan to improve Thai teacher's English and use them and is now looking for 10,000 native English speaking teachers. 

So, is all this Teacher licensing and Education Degrees still in effect? Has it gone back to just "any old degree" like it is in every other country?

If not ... Plan B continues. For a while. Retiring soon. But I guess if it's just for a year I have no worries. Just curious.

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## Saint Willy

> Has it gone back to just "any old degree" like it is in every other country?


every other country?

I think the reverse is true, most countries now want an education degree or qualification. (And rightly so)

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## keekwai

> every other country?
> 
> I think the reverse is true, most countries now want an education degree or qualification. (And rightly so)


OK. Excuse my exaggeration. Change the "every" to "many" and then answer the question ... if you can. I've been teaching in Cambodia, Vietnam, China and Taiwan on my Bachelor of Science degree for the past 5 years with no problems. And no "Teacher License" or "Education Degree wankerism for working as a "language teacher".


But if the new Education minister wants 10,000 foreign native English teachers in the middle of a Pandemic and travel restrictions and is still sticking to the old rules. I wish him luck.


As for the "rightly so" bit, that logic does not apply to Thailand. Proof? They "waive" their requirements for a full license for up to SIX YEARS. So they don't seem to mind someone with a Bachelor of Science in Computer Engineering teaching for 6 years without an "Education Degree".

The hypocrisy and total illogic of it is unique to Thailand. I'm surprised you haven't realised that yet

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## keekwai

Actually, never mind. A bit of research says it is still in place, but has relaxed a lot in it's application and the actual schools have a major say in order to keep that non Education Degree holder teaching for 6 years, like I said above.

I was just hoping for some "feet on the ground" feedback. 

Still waiting. But unnecessary. ;

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## Neverna

> So, is all this Teacher licensing and Education Degrees still in effect?


Yes, it is, but you can take a DipTEd that will enable you to get licensed - but that takes time.

Is it worth it for you? If not, I guess Plan B will continue for you.

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## keekwai

> Is it worth it for you?


At 62  and just wanting to do 1 more year of teaching in Thailand for old times sake before I retire, it is. But for longer than 6 years. It's not.




> If not, I guess Plan B will continue for you.


Plan B is almost over. An upcoming AU$240,000 (U.S$10, lol) from my deceased mothers estate is heading my way soon (Probate approved). But I taught in Thailand for seven years and just want to do one more year. One school has contacted me via Facebook inviting me to return. From my research I mentioned, it seems I can. Having a new passport and no record of it at the Teacher's Council site helps too.  :Wink: 

Thanks for the confirmation.

 :Smile:

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## Neverna

> At 62  and just wanting to do 1 more year of teaching in Thailand for old times sake before I retire, it is. But for longer than 6 years. It's not.
> 
> I taught in Thailand for seven years and just want to do one more year. One school has contacted me via Facebook inviting me to return. From my research I mentioned, it seems I can. Having a new passport and no record of it at the Teacher's Council site helps too.


Input your old passport number and see what records they have of you with that.

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## keekwai

> Input your old passport number and see what records they have of you with that. .


Did that years ago. It comes up. There was also another site, some sort of a different version of the Teacher's Council site where you could also input your name. That came up with no records. It seems that their sloppily designed data base can only be searched with a passport number. And with my new one, nothing comes up.

So no worries.

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## armstrong

If you're coming back just for one year you will be fine.  Even if they refuse an extension you could sign up for a course and then back out. It'll take most of a year for them to process it.

I did 2 of the exams before they were cancelled and ended up taking a weekend diploma just for the Thai licence.

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## keekwai

A course? I wouldn't even have to do that. The school doesn't have to provide any evidence of you getting extra training until they apply for the second waiver after 2 years. I was mainly curious as to whether they were still maintaining the whole wank of a system. Lol But seeing as they were happy with your "weekend diploma" that proves the whole thing is "for show". As many things in Thailand are.

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## Topper

> So they don't seem to mind someone with a Bachelor of Science in Computer Engineering teaching for 6 years without an "Education Degree".


Almost the same verbage on the degree and I did 17 years.  Any degree is fine as long as you can provide transcripts and the sort to show that the degree is a real degree.

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## keekwai

Thank God my mother didn't need an Education Degree to teach me English. I mean, we're talking "Language teaching" for fu*ks sake. If it was general teaching, i.e. English, math, science, history, geography etc ... fair enough.


The thing is, young Thai teachers, fresh out of 4 years of uni studying for an Education Degree, getting 20,000 Baht or whatever, get pissed off at some backpacker with a non-education degree and a four week TESOL certificate getting twice as much. Something needed to be done to soothe their bruised egos. 

Roll in the PLAN. 


> Let's construct a bullshit process to force them to jump unnecessary hoops to get a "License Waiver" and make them do additional courses (_useful or not_) while they're doing a fulltime job and make the bastards sweat. That should calm the new Thai teachers a little. Then we can let them work as a language teacher without an Education Degree for SIX YEARS! Brilliant, ay? What's even better is that the bulk of them will only stay 1-2 years! 555


Basically, it's all done  "for show". An infamous Thai attribute. I've taught I.T (in English) in South Korea and taught English in China, Taiwan, Vietnam and Cambodia without any of this bullshit. But that's Thailand. You just have to go with the flow, "take the middle path" and humour them.  :Wink:

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## withnallstoke

Oddly, i have recently gone back to teaching (well, i'm trying).

I can't get a license, they have my records that show i received the exemptions up to the max.

Also have a problem with degree verification. It was verified at the British embassy in 2008, and when i presented it again, i have been told it needs re verifying.

The British embassy don't do it here anymore, so i have to send the fucker back to the uk.

My return to teaching looks like being very short lived.

Bastards.

 :kma:

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## keekwai

> I can't get a license, they have my records that show i received the exemptions up to the max.


You can't get a "_License Waiver_" you mean. You won't get an actual "_Teaching License_" until you've got either a Degree or a Diploma in Education.





> My return to teaching looks like being very short lived.


Only if you insist on teaching in Thailand ... only. If you REALLY want to actually "_teach_" and not just use teaching_ as a means to stay in Thailand_, there are plenty of alternatives ... and I've been doing some of them for 5 years, as I mentioned above.

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