#  >  > Computers Can Be Fun >  >  > Computer News >  >  New Macbooks not user-upgradable any more...

## Cthulhu

Kyle Wiens (of iFixit) doesn't like the new MacBook Pro:




> The Retina MacBook is the least repairable laptop weve ever taken apart: unlike the previous model, the display is fused to the glassmeaning replacing the LCD requires buying an expensive display assembly. The RAM is now soldered to the logic boardmaking future memory upgrades impossible. And the battery is glued to the caserequiring customers to mail their laptop to Apple every so often for a $200 replacement. ... The design pattern has serious consequences not only for consumers and the environment, but also for the tech industry as a whole.


And he blames us:




> We have consistently voted for hardware thats thinner rather than upgradeable. But we have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Our purchasing decisions are telling Apple that were happy to buy computers and watch them die on schedule. When we choose a short-lived laptop over a more robust model thats a quarter of an inch thicker, what does that say about our values?


Actually, what does that say about our values?

First of all, "short-lived" is arguable, and I'd argue for "flat-out wrong". I don't take enough laptops through to the end of their life to be a representative sample, but I've purchased two PC laptops and two MacBook Pros. After two years of use, both PCs were essentially falling apart (hinges, power cords, and basically dead batteries) while the MacBooks were running strong.

My 2008 MacBook Pro did get a not-totally-necessary battery replacement after a year, but my 2010 has run strong for two years. I'd expect nothing less from the Airs or new MacBook Pro. So short-lived might be a relative characterization if anything, and only if you consider the need to pay Apple to replace your battery instead of doing it yourself a "death".

Second, and more important, this thought occurred to me: when we look at futuristic computing devices in movies such as Minority Report or Avatar, do we think "Neat, but those definitely don't look upgradeable. No thanks."

Do we imagine that such progress is achieved through the kind of Luddite thinking that leads people to value "hackability" over never-before-achieved levels of precision and portability?

The quote above is the summation of Wiens' argument that "consumer voting" has pushed Apple down this road, and that we need to draw a line in the name of repairability, upgradability and hackability.

I'd argue that Apple's push toward devices that are more about the human interface and less about the components is a form of a categorical imperative, a rule for acting that has no conditions or qualifications  that there is no line, there is only an endless drive towards progress: more portable devices that get the job done with less thinking about the hardware.

That is what drives descriptions like Apple uses in its product announcements: magical, revolutionary  not hacking and upgrading.

Hackers gonna hate - nickchaves.com

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## Cthulhu

This certainly summarizes, to a 'T', the kind of ad nauseam hatin' that the nerd types like Baldrick, HarryBarracuda, etc.... represent. It's essentially the inability to see that software is the new hardware, and that their antiquated thinking will die out with them.

Yes, lots of hand-wringing over the marching morons... tough titties.

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## Cthulhu

Another good follow-up:

Why are Apple laptops becoming harder to take apart?

You can probably imagine what the response of iFixit’s CEO was to the new MacBook Pro with Retina Display once he took it apart and found that it is probably the least user-serviceable laptop Apple has ever made. He hates it.

What I like about his piece is that he doesn’t place the blame on Apple. Instead, he puts it on consumers:




> We have consistently voted for hardware that’s thinner rather than upgradeable. But we have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Our purchasing decisions are telling Apple that we’re happy to buy computers and watch them die on schedule. When we choose a short-lived laptop over a more robust model that’s a quarter of an inch thicker, what does that say about our values?


I know a lot of people think that computers (and many other products) are becoming less maker-friendly because greedy companies want to get more money for parts and labor, or even better, shorten the upgrade cycle and sell more computers, or cars, or appliances, or whatever.

I doubt that is ever really the case. There are a lot of tradeoffs that go into product design. When it comes to laptops, there are capabilities (display resolution, processor speed, storage space, battery life, and so on), size and weight, cost, and upgradeability. Apple seems to have gotten the impression that upgradeability is the factor that people care about the least, and I suspect that they’re right.

My suspicion is that the number of people who upgrade any of the components of their laptops is very small — I’d be surprised if even 5% of customers did so. I would imagine that the number of people who repair laptops on their own is even smaller. What’s funny is that I’m one of those people. I unthinkingly set a magnet on a MacBook I used to have and destroyed the hard drive, and I was very pleased to be able to take it apart and replace that hard drive myself. That being said, I’d rather have one of the new MacBook Pros with Retina Display than that old MacBook any day of the week.

rc3.org - Why are Apple laptops becoming harder to take apart?

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## Butterfly

> After two years of use, both PCs were essentially falling apart (hinges, power cords, and basically dead batteries) while the MacBooks were running strong.


 :rofl: 

I have 4 laptop PCs, with 2 running for almost 10 years with WinXP  and doing fine

try that with a MacBook, the thing fall aparts after 2 years, which doesn't matter since the dumb fans will buy a newer and gayer one by then  :rofl:

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## ltnt

The idea to manufacture products that have timed life spans originated in the automobile Industry.  If you manufacture a really dependable, rugged product that is supported by an industry spare parts program is not nearly as "cash," supportive as manufacturing a poor product with a designated life of say 1 or two years without the easy ability nor the spare part support to repair.

Software is the new Hardware?  Yea, time delayed obsolescence built into every Apple product since the beginning as is most all IT industry leaders globally. Not a very noteworthy observation on my part, but nevertheless there's plenty of iPod users who will continue to purchase revision after revision of the little ego builders.

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## nigelandjan

Well I have a non retina Mac book pro and I love it ( now )  bit like trying to unlearn a golf swing after years of Windows .

  Not claiming it to be better than anything else , but its suits me ,, it all works as and when I want and does what I want through its beautiful display.

  I keep all my photos on external drives so my onboard 320g isn't full .

 I will certainly buy another one when the time comes.

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## Kwang

^



 :Smile:

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## Cthulhu

> Well I have a non retina Mac book pro and I love it ( now )  bit like trying to unlearn a golf swing after years of Windows .
> 
>   Not claiming it to be better than anything else , but its suits me ,, it all works as and when I want and does what I want through its beautiful display.
> 
>   I keep all my photos on external drives so my onboard 320g isn't full .
> 
>  I will certainly buy another one when the time comes.


Which is pretty much how most people feel - if it does what you want, suits your purposes, you will most likely buy another one.

When Apple's laptops came with limited RAM and small hardy drives with moving parts, the ability to upgrade them within better capacity or replace worn components was an important issue. 

They used to ship with one or two gigs of RAM, and various sized drives. I consider 4 to 8 gigs of RAM to be the minimum for a system to run smoothly - which were viable upgrades after a couple of years.

These new MacBooks come with either 8 or 16 gig of soldered RAM (really, plenty) and the next version of OS X can manage well with far less RAM. Case in point, my MacBook Air with 2 gig of RAM was useless under OS S Lion (10.7) - yet, when I installed the beta of Mountain Lion, it transformed it into a speedy beast. Seriously, the new OS works performance wonders on older hardware. 

Thus, this move towards self-contained and amply equipped systems that promise to simply work, and work well, does work out , as it's accompanied by *software* support as well, to eradicate the shortcomings of the past.

Sure, derision by those who don't understand any of this, but appreciation by those who actually use these tools ;-)

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## Neo

> I'd argue that Apple's push toward devices that are more about the human interface and less about the components is a form of a categorical imperative...

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## baldrick

^ professional shills with their bullet points and cliche ridden dialogue are the most boring cnuts.

combine that with a no-life zealous apple tard and you have a sure fire recipe for tedium

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## Cthulhu

It's Called Progress, Folks by Garrett Murray

‘It’s Called Progress, Folks’

Garrett Murray deconstructs iFixit CEO Kyle Wiens’s diatribe condemning the integrated design of the new MacBook Pro:

The MacBook Air was not a market experiment. The MacBook Air was a revolution. Every single other company has been trying to replicate its success. Do you think Dell and Sony and Asus and Lenovo are all coincidentally performing the same “market experiment”? Apple designed and built the world’s thinnest, lightest computer and then year-after-year they made it better. The MacBook Air is the future–everyone knows it. People don’t want huge, heavy “robust and rugged” laptops. They want ultra-thin, ultra-light, insanely fast computers that are affordable. Apple delivered.

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## Cujo

How much are they paying you to promote them on forums?

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## Butterfly

> The MacBook Air was a revolution.


 :rofl:

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## Butterfly

> How much are they paying you to promote them on forums?


in RL he is an apple reseller, so he is probably happy to do it for free  :Smile: 

isn't corporate brainwashing great ? who needs religions when corporations have taken over with their "company" culture

we are really religious animals and slaves to false Gods

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## Cujo

> Originally Posted by Koojo
> 
> 
> How much are they paying you to promote them on forums?
> 
> 
> in RL he is an apple reseller, so he is probably happy to do it for free 
> 
> isn't corporate brainwashing great ? who needs religions when corporations have taken over with their "company" culture
> ...


RL = Real life?

Really? That would explain it.

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## Cthulhu

> How much are they paying you to promote them on forums?


A billion Baht every day.

Again, you don't grasp it - in your limited world, everything *has* to be financially compensated, because you can't grasp that someone might just be very satisfied with a given product.

Obviously, a curmudgeon like yourself would never be.




> in RL he is an apple reseller, so he is probably happy to do it for free


Actually, I'm not - but why bother with facts, right?




> we are really religious animals and slaves to false Gods


Undoubtedly, you consider yourself the only true prophet of truth... right?

(when, so far, you couldn't even answer a simple question)

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## Cujo

> Originally Posted by Koojo
> 
> 
> How much are they paying you to promote them on forums?
> 
> 
> A billion Baht every day.
> 
> Again, you don't grasp it - in your limited world, everything *has* to be financially compensated, because you can't grasp that someone might just be very satisfied with a given product.


I'm very satisfied with many products I buy, I don't spend hours on the internet everyday defending the reputation of the product and the company that made it.
I've been known to shoot off an email to the company.
'Very satisfied with the product' does not explain why you spend hours on the internet talking up Apple.
'obsessed nutcase' does.

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## Cthulhu

> I'm very satisfied with many products I buy, I don't spend hours on the internet everyday defending the reputation of the product and the company that made it.
> I've been known to shoot off an email to the company.
> 'Very satisfied with the product' does not explain why you spend hours on the internet talking up Apple.
> 'obsessed nutcase' does.


I was unaware that I was spending "many hours" on the internet "talking up Apple".

If you consider that to be the sign of "obsessed nutcase", maybe you could explain to me what you would describe or define "spending a great deal more hours on the internet reloading threads in order to post missives ridiculing other poster's comments"

I have a feeling that the above, and which is what you, Baldric, butterfly, HarryBarracuda and 1 or 2 others do, qualifies far more for "obsessive nutcase" than what you falsely attribute to me. Not quite at the Ant Robertson level yet, but certainly getting there.

So, how about it?

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## baldrick

> So, how about it?


you is fcukwit

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## Cthulhu

Seriously? Accusing me of dressing smartly by wearing French Connection UK???

This goes back to my earlier lesson to butterfly that the insult target needs to actually understand what is being hurled at them - which is doomed to failure if the insult originator has a linguistic impediment.

Kinda reminds of me this:

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## baldrick

> This goes back to my earlier lesson to butterfly that the insult target needs to actually understand what is being hurled at them - which is doomed to failure if the insult originator has a linguistic impediment.


I did use a form of address I believed would get through to you - I suggest you stick with facebook

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## Cthulhu

Does this mean you dress in Gap and Crocodile, all poofie like?

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## baldrick

it means I do not use facebook

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## Cthulhu

Snappy GAP dresser, you are. That explains a lot.

You're the one who wears those baggy cargo shorts, and sandals.... with socks. Right?

uhm... why should I care if you use Facebook, or not?

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## Cujo

> I was unaware that I was spending "many hours" on the internet "talking up Apple".


That's something you might want to address.
This bit.



> I was unaware





> that I was spending "many hours" on the internet





> "talking up Apple".


Because if it's true that you are unaware you really do have a problem.

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## Cthulhu

> Because if it's true that you are unaware you really do have a problem.


If you consider that to be the sign of "obsessed nutcase", maybe you could explain to me what you would describe or define "spending a great deal more hours on an internet forum reloading threads in order to post missives ridiculing other poster's comments"

I have a feeling that the above, and which is what you, Baldric, butterfly, HarryBarracuda and 1 or 2 others do, qualifies far more for "obsessive nutcase" than what you falsely attribute to me. Not quite at the Ant Robertson level yet, but certainly getting there.

So, how about it? (crickets...)

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## Cujo

> Originally Posted by Koojo
> 
> 
> Because if it's true that you are unaware you really do have a problem.
> 
> 
> If you consider that to be the sign of "obsessed nutcase", maybe you could explain to me what you would describe or define "spending a great deal more hours on an internet forum reloading threads in order to post missives ridiculing other poster's comments"
> 
> I have a feeling that the above, and which is what you, Baldric, butterfly, HarryBarracuda and 1 or 2 others do, qualifies far more for "obsessive nutcase" than what you falsely attribute to me. Not quite at the Ant Robertson level yet, but certainly getting there.
> ...


Nice try.

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## Cthulhu

Hmmm.. cat got your tongue, eh?

Funny how easy it is to shut you up. You sure you don't want to take a stab at answering the tough questions, Mr. Pot?

... maybe you could explain to me what you would describe or define "spending a great deal more hours on an internet forum reloading threads in order to post missives ridiculing other poster's comments"

I have a feeling that the above, and which is what you, Baldric, butterfly, HarryBarracuda and 1 or 2 others do, qualifies far more for "obsessive nutcase" than what you falsely attribute to me. Not quite at the Ant Robertson level yet, but certainly getting there.

So, how about it? (crickets...chirp, chirp!)

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## Butterfly

Quack Quack is raving mad, isn't he ?  :Smile:

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## Cujo

Yes, but myself, baldrick, butterfly harrybarracuda et els obsessive thread reloading are not the topic of conversation here.
You and our obsessive apple fixation is.

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## Cthulhu

Double-standards - how refreshing.

No, actually your obsessive reloading of threads (and thank you so much for admitting to it), is exactly what this is all about.



 :smiley laughing:

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## Cujo

> Double-standards - how refreshing.
> 
> No, actually your obsessive reloading of threads (and thank you so much for admitting to it), is exactly what this is all about.


Good, so there'll be no more nonsense about this apple rubbish then.

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## Cthulhu

There'll be plenty of that when there's news - but since we just established in the other thread that you are not qualified to label it as "rubbish" since you don't even know what you are talking about, your objections and critiques, moving forward, are moot - as they are borne from ignorance.

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## baldrick

^ name us some more of your catalog of labels to highlight your consumer victim status

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## Cthulhu

^ sez the guy prancing around decked out in GAP and crocodile shirts -- fashion victim.

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## Cujo

> There'll be plenty of that when there's news - but since we just established in the other thread that you are not qualified to label it as "rubbish" since you don't even know what you are talking about, your objections and critiques, moving forward, are moot - as they are borne from ignorance.


You said this thread was all about
My reloading threads so please try and stay on topic.
By the way, I never refresh individual thrreads, only 'new replies' ( and this keeps popping up at the top)

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## Cujo

> ^ sez the guy prancing around decked out in GAP and crocodile shirts -- fashion victim.


You really are a label concious consumer aren't you.
Are you sure you're not a girl?

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## Cthulhu

[QUOTE=Koojo;2133349]


> You said this thread was all about
> My reloading threads so please try and stay on topic.
> By the way, I never refresh individual thrreads, only 'new replies' ( and this keeps popping up at the top)


Same thing, really. 

So, have you gotten comfortable yet with your new realization that you are an obsessive nutcase?

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## Cthulhu

> Originally Posted by Cthulhu
> 
> 
> ^ sez the guy prancing around decked out in GAP and crocodile shirts -- fashion victim.
> 
> 
> You really are a label concious consumer aren't you.
> Are you sure you're not a girl?


You mean, Baldric is - he's the one prancing around in labelware.

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## Cujo

right, so you agree with butterfly that apple products are shit?

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## hazz

over the years I have had ibm, fujitsu, sony, hp, toshiba and apple laptops.

Fujitsu was the most unreliable, had it for 2 months, of which 6 weeks was having it fixed. 

After that I have to say its that macbook pro which has been the worst. I tend to use laptops for about 3-5 years between upgrades. And with the exception of the fajitsu the macbook pro has been the worst. 

Its the only laptop where I have had to replace batteries, three in 4 years, the only one where the paint rubbed off the keyboard, the only one where the screen developed bright patches. I had apple care and with the exceptions of the first battery and a dvd drive as far as everything else is conceded its my problem not theirs.

I have a ibm x series ultra portable thats about 8 years old. Its very usable under xp, on its original battery and looks almost new.

So given that I use laptops as a desktop replacement, I just cannot see how I could buy any of apples current range of computers. I will need to upgrade this year as 3G ram is not enough anymore, and I think its going to be a windows 7/8 machine with osx running under vmware.

I would say that apple stuff looks good, and looking good is given priority over reliability and usability. so yes they are  shit to own

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## Butterfly

of course they are shit to own, they are consumer goods to be thrown away and replaced as soon as a new one come out

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## hazz

^That must be what they meant when the apple care guys told me, that my faults were my problem and not theirs.... I had dutifully ignored 3 opportunities to replace my laptop with newer models

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## Cthulhu

> Its the only laptop where I have had to replace batteries, three in 4 years, the only one where the paint rubbed off the keyboard, the only one where the screen developed bright patches. I had apple care and with the exceptions of the first battery and a dvd drive as far as everything else is conceded its my problem not theirs.


How many years ago was that?

Does it look like this one?

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## hazz

its 4 years old. 
no it doesn't, and that is one of the sorryist looking laptops I have seen, they don't age well these apples do they

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## Cthulhu

That's the first Titanium PowerBook. The only one of their Pro laptops with a known issue of paint flaking off. The hand rest - which is why I am curious about your story. 

Was it an aluminium model?

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## hazz

aluminium paint simply wore off some of the keys, applecare felt i typed too much. As I said for a premium product they are very fragile

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## Cthulhu

> aluminium paint simply wore off some of the keys, applecare felt i typed too much. As I said for a premium product they are very fragile


Let me guess - you tried to have it serviced in Thailand?

Yes, the key paint coming off was an issue with a couple of them - it was one of those situations where I scratched my head over why they would paint a part that would be frequently exposed to oils and mechanical wear from the fingers. 

That's why they went with molded keys and no paint in the next iteration - albeit they could have just molded the silver color and texture as well. Happened to me, though I got the keyboard replaced under AppleCare twice. 

The reason in asking if you had it done in Thailand is because I have heard nothing but nightmare stories from most of the authorized service centers in Bangkok (suspect the same elsewhere). Apple really screwed up with who they authorized in Thailand, though then again, TiT, really. 

Several times local Mac owners were covered under AppleCare (notably the power adapters that frayed their cables or had heat damage), only to be told "no covered. 8000 baht for fix". I each of those cases I got Apple corporate involved, who made a direct call to the respective service centers, and the service was immediately performed, with lots of "khaphom this" and "khaphom that". Still, there's some real asses that remain authorized, sadly.

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## hazz

thailand, which in effect means australia, uk and escalated through uk corporate.

At the end of the day they produce fragile products, and charge a very high premium for maintenance; which reflects their knowledge of that fragility and the cost of dealing with it. The problem is that after charging premium prices for everything that they give you dixons service. seriously their internal issues are something I don't have any interest in, but making their problems mine is something I don't forget quickly. 

I have to say that whilst I am very annoyed about this, in the long run, they saved me money. I am financially responsible 6 macs and only the first got covered by applecare, the rest wern't on the basis that it was a serious rip off. the cost of repairs on this estate has been much less than applecare probable covered stuff that they would not have covered either.

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## Cthulhu

> The problem is that after charging premium prices for everything that they give you dixons service.


Ironically, they just hired the Dixons' former VP of Dixons stores to run the Apple Stores.

You are right - their problems should not be yours, and this is universal, one ad experience results in lost sales. They aren't that way anymore (except in Thailand), but in your case, the damage had been done. 

Historically, when running into issues, I always escalated directly to Steve Jobs, and invariably had the problems dealt with, and resolved. Lately I had to do the same with Tim Cook, with the same result. They can't solve problems if they don't know about them.

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## hazz

Dixons group probably has the worst reputation for any chain in the uk for screwing over their customers in everyway possible, Its less irony and more a statement of where they want apple uk to go.

Its not just thailand, I told you, I escalated my issues in thailand to apple australia who have final say on thai repairs, apple in the UK and finally corporate in the UK. From personal experience thailand no worse than apple uk.

Have you considered just how broken and dysfunctional apple must be internally if you have to shout, scream and escalate what should be very simple issues to the CEO. 
When you are selling a premium product, you need to sell a premium service to go with it, marketing and lock in's will only sustain you so far. Customer service is not simply marketing the 'genius' bar; its about not making your customer suffer from your problems... it needs to be something that everyone in the firm believes in. 

If after decades apple has not learnt this, then emailing the boss isn't going to make any difference and to be honest the necessity of doing this tells you enough about the firm not to use it again in the future.

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## Cthulhu

I disagree - the difference is how a situation is handled once I is escalated. Like I said, they can't fix it, if they don't know about it.

I compare this to my interaction with a number of other companies, including the darlings of the troll posse in some of these threads (Acer, HP, Dell), where not only has their CEO never responded (Jobs always replied), but a legitimate complaint was ignored, time and time again. This has *never* been my experience with Apple.

Obviously, YMMV, and it has - I do sometimes encounter such situations, frustrated customers like yourself, and I have always been able to make it right.

Should Apple be a perfect company - yes. Are they? Of course, not.

Nevertheless, the basic difference between a lot of other companies and Apple, is that Apple makes continued efforts to improve, while most everyone else aims for "good enough". There are only 2-3 other companies I have encountered with a similar attention to excellence, in every aspect of what they do.

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## Cujo

^ So tell us again how much they pay you to be a corporate schill?

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## Butterfly

> when running into issues, I always escalated directly to Steve Jobs


oh boy, that takes the cake  :rofl: 




> Lately I had to do the same with Tim Cook, with the same result.


and if that wasn't enough, add another layer of baiting  :rofl: 




> emailing the boss isn't going to make any difference and to be honest the necessity of doing this tells you enough about the firm not to use it again in the future.


will probably be missed on Quack Quack,

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## Sailing into trouble

MAcs are for people with lives.
PC's are for people who it is their life!

Convert: I have said it before, They work well, and are easy to use. Drive a toyota now as well. I will probably end up with a PC again but only because I can not afford a Mac.

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## Cthulhu

> ^ So tell us again how much they pay you to be a corporate schill?


Right back to discussion how much of an obsessive nutcase you are, right? I mean, here you are, barely showered, but checking the thread for more obsession fodder before you've even had your first cup of coffee....

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## Cthulhu

> PC's are for people who it is their life!


Describes the Apple-haters well enough... ;-)

Plenty of options in the second-hand market, if you look around. Good luck.

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## hazz

> I disagree - the difference is how a situation is handled once I is escalated. Like I said, they can't fix it, if they don't know about it.
> 
> I compare this to my interaction with a number of other companies, including the darlings of the troll posse in some of these threads (Acer, HP, Dell), where not only has their CEO never responded (Jobs always replied), but a legitimate complaint was ignored, time and time again. This has *never* been my experience with Apple.
> 
> Obviously, YMMV, and it has - I do sometimes encounter such situations, frustrated customers like yourself, and I have always been able to make it right.
> 
> Should Apple be a perfect company - yes. Are they? Of course, not.
> 
> Nevertheless, the basic difference between a lot of other companies and Apple, is that Apple makes continued efforts to improve, while most everyone else aims for "good enough". There are only 2-3 other companies I have encountered with a similar attention to excellence, in every aspect of what they do.


Seriously the job of the company board, is to manage the company. If they are remotely doing their jobs correctly, then people should not be escalating to the CEO or anyone in senior positions. 

And to be honest I would call you out on this. Are you saying  that the Apple board is so out of touch with their own company that they are unaware of their failure to comply with eu warranty laws and that they were being sued for that non compliance. This is not where premium brands should find themselves, this is where you expect to find spives like david ryan and ryan air. 

Apple is not a new company it is well established, it is a well established retailer. It has had plenty of time to understand whats important to its business and their success demonstrates this. If they believed that customer service went beyond selling expensive, ineffective warranty insurance, then it would and their current success would suggest that they are right.

But from my perspective, IT equipment comes with a design life of 5 years. And in that respect it is reasonable for me to expect equipment, particularly when its sold at a  premium price, should have a high probability of being reliable and presentable after the regress of 5 years use. Apple clearly don't, so where does that leave me, when I come to this years new laptop?

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## Butterfly

> Seriously the job of the company board, is to manage the company.


I think you are confusing executive management with the board, two different beasts

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## harrybarracuda

Daffy has the ear of Apple's CEO?

Fucking hell, Comical Cthulhu! 

You don't seriously think anyone believes you, do you?

You are more deluded than I thought.

 :smiley laughing:

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## Cthulhu

> Originally Posted by hazz
> 
> Seriously the job of the company board, is to manage the company.
> 
> 
> I think you are confusing executive management with the board, two different beasts


It's very scary when I find myself agreeing with butterfly - the board of directors has very little to do with managing a company. Individual members, and the board, *can*, if they are so inclined, make or influence decisions, initiate or influence policies - but that is not their purpose. 

I do agree that Apple not being aware of the EU's 2-year warranty laws (until they are sued over it) or even the current row over the new iPad's 4G designation (unusable outside North America) lead me to shake my head - both were obvious mistakes that could have been simply addressed beforehand, but weren't, and required costly after the fact addressing. 

Hazz, You are lone and unique in expecting 5 year lifespans from any equipment, nowadays, in a world of 2-3 year cycles. This isn't to say that Apple equipment won't deliver such, as I've seen people with *way* old Macs still happily in use (my first few generations of PowerBooks, especially the Pismo, lasted me beyond 5 years, especially with its PPC G4 processor, and had to be forcibly retired).

Of course, on the Windows side this isn't surprising, since Microsoft doesn't deliver anything new for 12 years, and windows users are fine running a 10 year old operating system on 10 year old systems. ;-)

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## hazz

^Sorry but whilst the apple world might run on 2-3 year design lives, you will find the standard design life is 5 years for std IT equipment, and longer for infrastructure equipment.

Almost all equipment is specified with mtbf figures to give an idea of the reliability of the equipment during its design life, which also needs to be specified. you will find that 5 year design lives are standard in the IT industry with long ones being specified for infrastructure such as high end network equipment.




> both were obvious mistakes that could have been simply addressed beforehand, but weren't, and required costly after the fact addressing.


Its highly unlikely that these were mistakes, they just decided that this was not something they needed to be bothered with. It is unusual for a company to be prosecuted for this kind of behaviour if it admits fault and takes corrective action as soon as the non compliance is pointed out to them. That they did not comply until after they lost the case regarding non compliance with eu consumer protection laws and then went to appeal.....  hints at a lot.

If their equipment was reliable, then offering a 2 year warrant should cost them very little. After all its very reasonable to expect something that costs between 1-2000 pounds to have a very high probability of working for 2 years. 
Their actions tell you all you need to know about how much that second year of warranty is going to take out of their profits, enough for a very media savvy company to take the resulting bad publicity.

----------


## baldrick

> You are lone and unique in expecting 5 year lifespans from any equipment


daffy you chump , stop making sh1t up in an attempt to support your argument

2-3 year lifespan ? do you think all companies are similar to your failed start-up ?

----------


## Cthulhu

I consider those to be mistakes - flaws, faults, grievous oversights, arrogant assumptions... Call it what you will; mistakes is shorter and more descriptive, and as these situations (and PR backfires) had been 100% avoidable, evermore unforgivable for a company like Apple, IMO.

They do a lot of things right, but they clearly fuck up, sometimes for the mstavoidable details. 

While you are correct that infrastructure equipment is sourced and budgeted for a longer term, I disagree about desktop equipment, which is usually acquired through leases, which last usually for 2-3 years, which is the average equipment upgrade cycle. I don't personally agree with equipment leasing, but that is how it's done by USA corporations. 

Private industry might operate smarter, in fact I'm sure they do.

----------


## Butterfly

> If their equipment was reliable, then offering a 2 year warrant should cost them very little.


again you are a confusing apple with a computer manufacturing company, it's not, it's a jewelry distributor, they don't build anything, they just design pretty shit, order them and distribute them to retail outlets

----------


## hazz

> I consider those to be mistakes - flaws, faults, grievous oversights, arrogant assumptions... Call it what you will; mistakes is shorter and more descriptive, and as these situations (and PR backfires) had been 100% avoidable, evermore unforgivable for a company like Apple, IMO.


You mean the thai definition of mistake or accidence. something that the americans would call 'wilful negligence'

^
Its more of a marketing firm that makes home electronics, just like away porche were a hedge fund that happened to make cars. When you consider that microsoft make more money from the sale of a pc sold with an one licence, than all of the other companies involved in the construction of the PC. what apple have done is quite clever, by controlling the hardware, software and selling of their stuff they ensure that far more money comes their way than any other intel based computer manufacture. its emulation what sun, hp and ibm did with their enterprise customers.

----------


## Cthulhu

> Originally Posted by Cthulhu
> 
> I consider those to be mistakes - flaws, faults, grievous oversights, arrogant assumptions... Call it what you will; mistakes is shorter and more descriptive, and as these situations (and PR backfires) had been 100% avoidable, evermore unforgivable for a company like Apple, IMO.
> 
> 
> You mean the thai definition of mistake or accidence. something that the americans would call 'wilful negligence'


Harsh words, but certainly apropos... Like I said, in those instances, 100% avoidable. It was just dumb ignorance of market realities that turned around and  bit them, justifiably. 

You missed the point that while they are very good at marketing, they also make some excellent products, do some awesome engineering, and also have some regular products (like their wifi routers). A classic example of their engineering what the first iPhone, which it turned out no competitor took seriously as no one believed such a product, particularly with battery life, could be made, at the time. Such underestimating Apple was RIM's downfall, for example.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Overestimating its own products has been RIM's downfall, the same with Nokia who have suddenly realised Symbian no longer cuts it.

----------


## Gerbil

> again you are a confusing apple with a computer manufacturing company, it's not, it's a jewelry distributor, they don't build anything, they just design pretty shit, order them and distribute them to poofs


Fixed that for you.  :Smile:

----------


## hazz

> Overestimating its own products has been RIM's downfall, the same with Nokia who have suddenly realised Symbian no longer cuts it.


digital, compaq, sun, sperry, rodine, microplis, tandem, amega, altari. there is nothing like being a market leader to breed self distractive arrogance in a company

----------


## Cthulhu

> digital, compaq, sun, sperry, rodine, microplis, tandem, amega, altari. there is nothing like being a market leader to breed self distractive arrogance in a company


Indeed.




> We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in. _-Ed Colligan, Ex-Palm CEO, 16 Nov 2006_





> There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get. _-Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO and zoologist, 30 April 2007_

----------


## Cthulhu

Bye Bye BlackBerry. How Long Will Apple Last? - Forbes

Bye Bye BlackBerry. How Long Will Apple Last?

Just five years ago, “BlackBerry” was virtually synonymous with “smartphones.” It was well on its way to becoming a generic trademark, like Kleenex or Band-Aid, that would seemingly forever be associated with its entire sector. “For many, the Blackberry is a must-have gadget, a wireless hand-held computer that can send e-mail and make phone calls,” noted a 2005 NPR story on the “CrackBerry,” as some BlackBerry addicts referred to the device. (Incidentally, the story compared the BlackBerry to the Palm Treo, an equally popular device at the time.)

Today, however, Research In Motion Ltd. (RIM), the maker of BlackBerry smartphones, is a financial basket case that has come to symbolize just how turbulent life in the modern digital economy can be. On Thursday, RIM announced that it was laying off top execs as revenues continued to plummet and the firm’s stock price hit its lowest mark since 2003. Industry analysts are lowering their projections for the firm and wondering if any corporate suitor—Microsoft is commonly mentioned—might be willing to step in and save the day by taking over the company.

As a New York Times headline from earlier this year noted, “The BlackBerry [is] Trying to Avoid the Hall of Fallen Giants,” joining the infamous ranks of the Sony Walkman, the Palm Pilot, the Atari 2600 gaming console, and the Polaroid instant camera. The article noted that “Over the last year, RIM’s share price has plunged 75 percent. The company once commanded more than half of the American smartphone market. Today it has 10 percent.” Both metrics continue their downhill slide.

If RIM can’t pull a rabbit out of the hat, the BlackBerry will become the latest case study exemplifying just how fast “information empires” can rise and fall in today’s rapidly evolving information technology marketplace. I’ve devoted numerous installments of this column to documenting how Joseph Schumpeter’s “perennial gales of creative destruction” are blowing harder than ever in today’s tech economy and laying waste to those who don’t innovate fast enough.

Nowhere is that more true than in the mobile phone handset and operating system marketplace, which has undergone continuous change over the past 15 years and is still evolving rapidly. Like the BlackBerry, Palm smartphones were also wildly popular for a brief time and brought many innovations to the marketplace, but the company underwent many ownership and management changes and rapidly faded from the scene. After buying Palm in 2010, HP announced it would use its webOS platform in a variety of new products. That effort failed, however, and HP instead announced it would transition webOS to an open source software development mode.

Microsoft also had a huge lead in licensing its Windows Mobile OS to high-end smartphone handset makers until Apple and Android disrupted its business. It’s hard to believe now, but just a few years ago the idea of Apple or Google being serious contenders in the smartphone business was greeted with derision, even scorn. Consider some of the pessimistic predictions that preceded Apple’s entry into the smartphone business:

In December 2006, Palm CEO Ed Colligan summarily dismissed the idea that a traditional personal computing company could compete in the smartphone business. “We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,” he said. “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.”

In January 2007, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer laughed off the prospect of an expensive smartphone without a keyboard having a chance in the marketplace as follows: “Five hundred dollars? Fully subsidized? With a plan? I said that’s the most expensive phone in the world and it doesn’t appeal to business customers because it doesn’t have a keyboard, which makes it not a very good e-mail machine.”
In March 2007, computing industry pundit John C. Dvorak argued that “Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone” since “There is no likelihood that Apple can be successful in a business this competitive.” Dvorak believed the mobile handset business was already locked up by the era’s major players. “This is not an emerging business. In fact it’s gone so far that it’s in the process of consolidation with probably two players dominating everything, Nokia Corp. and Motorola Inc.”
This serves as a classic example of those with a static snapshot mentality disregarding the potential for new entry and technological disruption. Today, less than five years after these predictions were made, Nokia’s profits and market share have plummeted and a struggling Motorola was purchased by Google last summer. Meanwhile, Palm appears dead and Microsoft is struggling to win back all the market share it has lost to Apple and Google in this arena.

“The violence with which new platforms have displaced incumbent mobile vendor fortunes continues to surprise,” says wireless industry analyst Horace Dediu. He notes that Nokia’s Symbian platform went from 47% share to 16% in three years, Microsoft’s phone platforms went from 12% to 1%, RIM’s went from 17% to 12%, and other platforms went from 21% to zero. Meanwhile, over a two year period, Google’s Android OS went from zero to 48% and Apple’s iOS went from 2% to 19%.

In a marketplace this dynamic it’s worth asking: How long will it be before Apple and Google’s Android meet a similar fate? That question sounds ludicrous now considering their respective fortunes and current co-Kings of the Hill status. But posing the same question about BlackBerry just a few years ago would have also evoked howls of laughter.

No one is laughing now, however, especially not RIM execs or their shareholders.

----------


## Butterfly

^ nobody is laughing because they underestimated the stupidity of consumers  :Smile: 

now it's payback time  :Razz:

----------


## Cthulhu

> ^ nobody is laughing because they underestimated the stupidity of consumers


It's more like they were *banking* on the stupidity of consumers - and didn't expect:

- Apple to innovate a rabbit out of their hat.
- Consumers to actually gravitate to a better product

and most important of all:

- were unable to develop and market a better product.

Now, in all honesty, Palm had the potential at a competing product, with webOS and their pebble shaped phones - too bad they lost focus by irrationally starting a fight and wasting resources with Apple over hijacking the USB specs to make their device pretend to be an iPod. They should have just licensed DoubleTwist and made a deal with Amazon over music content... instead, they spent a year on a stupid cat/mouse game which they ultimately lost, and which lost them tons of goodwill from customers -- not to mention ultimately producing a shitty product (the workmanship of their phones and tablest was crap, webOS was actually a pretty damn nice product). The fact that Rubinstein could not leverage the resources from hp, but just retired pretty much summarizes why Palm failed.

RIM - there's really no hope. Lazaridis and Balsilie took care of damaging RIM in such a manner that it is impossible for RIM to recover. If they are lucky, they will be bought, on the cheap, and gutted.

Nokia - they are on life-support and barely being propped up by a vain hope that the Microsoft alliance will save them... in all likelihood, that hope was ust torpedo'd by Ballmer's Surface wet-dream.

Which ultimately just leaves .... Apple and Google.

... and if Apple's strategy of financial attrition pays off over the next 3-5 years, Android will be relegated to be a niche player before long (while tools will keep claiming huge *shipping* numbers or some such nonsense...)

----------


## baldrick

> ... and if Apple's strategy of financial attrition


you mean patent trolling - that strategy will fail as more Judges realise they are being taken for luddite fools

apple has just realised it needs to start writing software for IOS , but it may well be too far behind

angry birds will not keep itards amused for ever

----------


## harrybarracuda

And ironically the mighty Facebook is taking it up the arse because it can't work out how to keep customers who use it primarily on mobiles, and who will probably get pissed off very quickly if they start filling the screen with ads.

----------


## Sailing into trouble

Pam -am used to be an Airline, Rolls Royce used to be British... et al nothing is for ever. Companies will come and go as new companies create "better stuff" for us to waste  our money on. I used to have an iphone one of the first in my area. Loved it great toy. Now everyone I know has one or the like. Changed jobs now I use a throw away nokia. Life goes on.

At the moment Apple makes kit, like this company computer I am using that does everything I want it to do without crashing, dieing or making me think in binary terms. I used to pride my self at being able to figure out how to keep my PC working. Now I have gotten used to just driving this mac laptop. I am sure like in the auto world others will continue to emulate the Toyota, and make rugged clever tech stuff that works without having to understand how to tune up, rebuild and understand how the blood thing works. When someone builds s better same as apple I will buy that.

----------


## Cthulhu

> When someone builds a better same as apple I will buy that.


Fully agree - ditto!




> PamAm used to be an Airline


I wish they still were.

----------


## hazz

you know I think i might have been a little bit unkind about the build quality of macbook pro's.

I have just returned uninjured from an inverse na Ayutthaya. in as much as the car I was in was rear ended in the passenger corner, we were doing about 110km/hr and we recon, as did the insurance gent, that after breaking he hit us at about 140-150km/hr.

better half did an amazing job of turning into the spin and not using the breaks until we were travelling straight down the express way. which is why I think we didn't start rolling and why we are still alive spite this monkeys best attempts to kill us.

My macbookpro was in a rucksack in the boot, a bit of the boot that is now 40-50cm shorter than it should be. it got a hell of a bang and is still to everyone suprise fully operational.... unlike the car.

what is it about these monkeys they get to drive minibuses

----------


## Cthulhu

Damn, glad you're ok. Giving monkeys the keys to cars... bad ideas. 

Get the hard drive replaced, ASAP. Back it up to an external and swap it out. It's the only moving part that can be affected, with a delayed action, by this kind of trauma.

----------


## hazz

Not necessary I have a mirrored ssd and hd and everything on the hd is disposable. Given the age of the thing and its general reliability pre impact... maintenance would be good money after bad. Time for an upgrade this year

----------


## Cthulhu

> Not necessary I have a mirrored ssd and hd and everything on the hd is disposable. Given the age of the thing and its general reliability pre impact... maintenance would be good money after bad. Time for an upgrade this year


Fair enough - I only wanted to provide cautious advice, based on the incident.

What do you intend to upgrade to?

----------


## harrybarracuda

A Volvo I would imagine.

 :Smile:

----------


## hazz

^Not sure. better half is very practically minded, but in her heart she wants a hybrid suberu that goes like a bat out of hell.... not sure if they make one yet, but she also likes the practicalities of owning a toyota so I have no idea. to be honest we will probably use the repaired toyota for a while until she can buy the car of her dreams.

As for the laptop. if the new macs had a dvd drive bay, so I could have two hd I would be buying one of them. 
So I will probably be looking for a 15" or 17" laptop that can be fitted with an affordable ssd and a hard disk, 16G ram... and a full HD screen. Not sure who's msi have some interesting models, perhaps Asus, thinkpad or samsung.... not given it much thought yet

----------


## Cthulhu

The current, ie new, Macbook Pros do still ship with HD and DVD drives. The new Retina model is the one that only has a very fast SSD. Probably just a matter of going to a store and playing with it.

----------


## hazz

given the size of the storage I need, the price for the retina laptop is simply far to high for what I value in the package. its nice but insultingly poor value for money. As for the other models they are selling, they are not really anything special and don't offer me more than what I would get from other manufactures. With the cases being larger, I would also expect to have less thermal problems running at 100% CPU in an environment at 30-33C ambant.

----------


## Cthulhu

The ambient temperatures in tropical countries like Thailand certainly are a concern. That's kinda why I prefer the aluminium enclosures.

Of course, with the lack of grounding in nearly 90% of all "grounded" plugs in Thailand, you do get the added benefit of the pleasant tingling whenever you are plugged in, on your palm and any part of the skin that contacts the metal.

----------


## hazz

most of the tingling is not from the PSU its from the wifi and bluetooth. rf coupling. turn them off and the problem goes away.

----------


## harrybarracuda

I would be more concerned about the effectiveness of the rear crumple zone if I were you.

----------


## Cthulhu

> most of the tingling is not from the PSU its from the wifi and bluetooth. rf coupling. turn them off and the problem goes away.


Oh kryst... (rolls eyes)

It's from lack of grounding. Trust me on that.

Plug it into a grounded outlet - no tingling.

Plug it into an ungrounded outlet - tingling. (or rather, grounding short).

This was done on the exact same outlet, the only difference was that I ended up grounding the circuit in the hotel room between tests...

----------


## Cthulhu

> I would be more concerned about the effectiveness of the rear crumple zone if I were you.


Did you have to bring up butterfly?

----------


## harrybarracuda

I said crumple not crumpled.

----------


## hazz

> I would be more concerned about the effectiveness of the rear crumple zone if I were you.


True. but about 4 years ago we got a new boot welded on the back of the car after some monkey decided to fly over the bridge by the siam discovery centre, only to discover just out view on the other side there was a queue of traffic waiting for the lights. Domed the two cars behind us and shorted our boot by 30 cm, How the hell anyone can get to those kind of speeds in central bangkok I have no idea. she got out unscathed because of her airbag..... more the pitty.  

So its going to be repeat work and we know their works good, given we have just had it crash tested




> It's from lack of grounding. Trust me on that.
> Plug it into a grounded outlet - no tingling.
> Plug it into an ungrounded outlet - tingling. (or rather, grounding short).


quite a lot of the time the problem is created by the case coupling with the rf aerials, grounding the case deal will this, but in the absence of grounding shutting down all the RF transmitters will prevent the problem from occurring in the first place. Then there is the issue of exposing the body to ultra low frequency radiation, something enhanced by the ungrounded case, its a known cancer risk.

----------


## Cthulhu

> I said crumple not crumpled.


You said "rear"

----------


## Cthulhu

> quite a lot of the time the problem is created by the case coupling with the rf aerials, grounding the case deal will this, but in the absence of grounding shutting down all the RF transmitters will prevent the problem from occurring in the first place. Then there is the issue of exposing the body to ultra low frequency radiation, something enhanced by the ungrounded case, its a known cancer risk.


The ULF radiation issue is really only at issue if you keep your body pressed against the emitters for insane amounts of time, by the way.

This is good advice - thank you. Grounding is, nevertheless, a continuing issue in Thailand, or rather, the lack thereof.

Surprised not more people die.

----------


## hazz

^like when you spend hours typing away with you wrists resting on an ungrounded metal case that is coupled to the wifi and bluetooth transmitters continually pumping sub ULF rf into your body?

Grounding is easy to retro. copper rod and green wire

----------


## Cthulhu

> Grounding is easy to retro. copper rod and green wire


Which is what I basically did. There's a dozen hotel rooms in BKK now that are probably the only grounded rooms in those hotels.... if not BKK ;-)

Green wire to steel trussing or green wire to conduit to external steel structure.

Not perfect, but it did the trick for that purpose.

Have you ever tried to explain "grounding" to an "electrician" in Thailand? ;-)

----------


## Butterfly

> Have you ever tried to explain "grounding" to an "electrician" in Thailand? ;-)


is that like explaining "good computer" to a Mac fan ?

----------


## CaptainNemo

I bet Cthulu talks really quickly in real life.

----------


## Sailing into trouble

Serious question. So Harry be on your best behavior!

As some of you might know, I went reluctantly to the darkside because of work 4 years ago. Now after 4 years no crashes, locked up thingies, and having to feel like a Moron when I g to the tech types.......I like them. They work do the stuff I need doing and do it nicely and with no fuss.

So I like using, not figuring out how to use.
Now 4 years away from PC tech is along time. In my world no one mentions PC since everyone including the kids use Macs. As I have also said I am not married to Mr Apple. Want something that works well in a hot marine environment.

But! This Baby will be mine. Deal through work but mine to keep.

Uses


Talking to you losers! :Smile: 

Video home video stuff (imovie level)
Pics etc

Running marine Navigational programes
Connecting to Single Side Band Radio 
Connecting to WIN FAX

PC would be looking at Toshiba or Sony or MAinstream.

I am not good at mechanicing stuff, I actually have forgotten much about windows gotten used to just using. 

Also would like to recharge using DC (12 volt)  (which should be at about 15 when batteries are fully charged) Battery life between refills.

Need to make a decision this month or I loose the dosh. Any relevant ideas

Cheers for any suggestions, that I can show my mam, and Harry's for that matter

----------


## Carrabow

> Originally Posted by Cthulhu
> 
> Have you ever tried to explain "grounding" to an "electrician" in Thailand? ;-)
> 
> 
> is that like explaining "good computer" to a Mac fan ?


 
I figured you would put in your 2 cents....


Water Heaters await for you  :Smile:

----------


## Cthulhu

Honestly, the major question really becomes what kind of screen size would you like, but from looking at your needs, an 11" to 13" MacBook Air seems to be the best solution for you - make sure you get it with a 256GB flash drive, and you're set.

You can get the 11" model, 2.0GHz core i7, with 8GB of RAM and 256GB Flash storage, for$1,650.

or you can get the 13" model, 2.0GHz core i7, with 8GB of RAM and 256GB Flash storage, for $1,700.

Yeah, not much of a price difference, just pick the size you want, and you're well under your budget.

I feel the MacBook Air would be the better choice, because of its design that emphasizes the lack of moving parts (ie no hard drive, but flash drives), and lighter overall package. 

Combine with a pelican water tight case to store in and you're good.

Pelican | HardBack | Fit Guide

For 12V power use or re-charging, you can use Apple's power adapter:

Apple MagSafe Airline Adapter - Apple Store (U.S.)

----------


## Cthulhu

While the iPad is nifty, and while it DOES support iMovie to edit movies (and it does it really well), you might feel more comfortable with a larger screen.

I would just suggest heading to an iStore or equivalent, and checking out the Macbook Air 11.6" and 13.3" as well as the iPad, and see how you react to them.


If you're jonesing for a 15" Macbook, then the new Retina display version would be what I suggest, simply because it has gotten rid of the hard drives in favor of flash drives.

Configure - Apple Store (U.S.)

It starts at around $2,200, though, so would exceed your budget.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Serious question. So Harry be on your best behavior!
> 
> As some of you might know, I went reluctantly to the darkside because of work 4 years ago. Now after 4 years no crashes, locked up thingies, and having to feel like a Moron when I g to the tech types.......I like them. They work do the stuff I need doing and do it nicely and with no fuss.
> 
> So I like using, not figuring out how to use.
> Now 4 years away from PC tech is along time. In my world no one mentions PC since everyone including the kids use Macs. As I have also said I am not married to Mr Apple. Want something that works well in a hot marine environment.
> 
> But! This Baby will be mine. Deal through work but mine to keep.
> 
> ...


If a "hot marine environment" means you're the dance director on a cruise ship, then stick to what you know. If it ain't fucked, don't fix it.

If however, you mean sweaty, hot and dirty, then I'd look at something with an IP rating.

New Panasonic Toughbooks, Refurbished Toughbooks & Rugged Notebooks Now Shipping

(Of course, "sweaty, hot and dirty" may still apply in the cruise ship environment).

----------


## Butterfly

New Panasonic Toughbooks, Refurbished Toughbooks & Rugged Notebooks Now Shipping

fucking hot !!! at least it doesn't look like a fucking Tampad,

----------


## harrybarracuda

No, but they have one of those, too.

----------


## misskit

^Too many buttons. Too confusing.  :Smile:

----------


## Cthulhu

> ^Too many buttons. Too confusing.


 :smiley laughing: 

Deserves a green!

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^Too many buttons. Too confusing.

----------


## Sailing into trouble

HArry,

I was looking at this model, but its like buying a Mazda! I have no idea what I need from this list? Any help?


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Viewing: Durabook S15C Semi Rugged Laptop


DURABOOK S15C SEMI RUGGED LAPTOP
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$1,199.00 - [ Configure & Purchase ]
Description:
Durabook S15C Semi Rugged Laptop is your all in one solution for mobile computing. 15.6" widescreen HD LCD, Intel Core i3,i5 and i7 Processors and Wireless. The S15C features a High Definition 1366x768 LCD with optional 1920x1080. Drop, Shock and Spill resistant, this ruggedized laptop is made to withstand the harsh conditions.
Standard Configuration:
LCD Size:
15.6" HD TFT (1366x768)
Processor Speed:
2.13GHz Dual Core (P6200)
RAM:
2GB DDRIII
Video RAM:
1696MB Shared
Hard Drive Size:
320GB, 5400RPM
Wireless:
Intel 802.11 b/g/n
Media Drive:
Super Multi CDRW+/DVDRW+
Battery:
Li-Ion Smart w/AC Adapter
Operating System:
Windows 7 Home Premium
Warranty:
2 Years, 6 Months on Batteries

Nylon Carrying Case - FREE
D15TS Replacement - More Power!


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Total: $1,199.00
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 $75.00 - Windows XP Professional 32 Bit 
 $0.00 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit 
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 $179.00 - Windows 7 Ultimate 32 Bit 
 $179.00 - Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit 

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 $155.00 - 500GB HDD 7200 RPM 
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 $259.00 - 80GB Solid State Drive 
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 $65.00 - Upgrade Standard 6 Cell to 9 Cell Battery 
 $129.00 - Spare Main 6 Cell Battery 
 $165.00 - Spare Main 9 Cell Battery 

External Power Options

 $135.00 - External Battery Charger 
 $78.00 - Spare AC Adapter 
 $55.00 - DC to AC Vehicle Adapter 

Port Replicator

 None Selected
 $125.00 - USB Port Replicator 

Accessories

 $25.00 - Wireless Logitech Optical Mouse 
 $79.00 - Targus Backpack style carrying case 

Microsoft Office 2010 Software Options

 None Selected
 $199.00 - Office 2010 Home and Student 
 $279.00 - Office 2010 Home & Business 
 $449.00 - Office 2010 Professional 

Durabook S15C Warranty Upgrades

 None Selected
 $115.00 - Express Red 48hr Turnaround to Initial 2 Year Warranty 
 $85.00 - Add 1 Year Extended Standard Warranty 48hr Turnaround (3 Years Total) 
 $65.00 - Add 1 Year Extended Standard Warranty 3-5 Day Turnaround (Total 3 Years) 
 $185.00 - Upgrade to 2 Year No Fault Warranty 
 $289.00 - Upgrade to 3 Year No Fault Warranty 
 $399.00 - Upgrade to 4 Year No Fault Warranty 
 $575.00 - Upgrade to 5 Year No Fault Warranty 


Total: $1,199.00
Product Summaryback to top
The newest Semi Rugged Durabook is the S15C featuring a 15.6” HD 1366 x 768 LCD (optional 1920 x 1080 High Res LCD) and Intel’s newest Core i3, i5 and i7 processors, this machine is ready to compete. Made for the Professional on the go, Education, Military, Public Safety and other Government branches the Durabook S15C with its Drop, Spill and Shock Resistant components will outlast others. A large 320GB Hard Drive and 2GB RAM is impressive but upgrading these features to their maximum turns this Durabook into a desktop replacement workhorse. Check the Options List for this upgrades. A shock mounted Hard Drive and LCD protects against data lose and smart battery circuitry prevents damage caused by power surges and overheating.


Law Enforcement and Government Agencies please submit your requests or configurations for special pricing. Volume and Non Profit Organization pricing is also available.
Detail Specificationsback to top
Drop Resistant:		Magnesium alloy case - 20 times stronger than ABS plastic, offering higher survival rate after drops and bumps. Compliant with Military Standard 810F
Shock Resistant:	
Anti-shock mounting design protects LCD screen and hard disk drive from damage and data loss.
Flexible HDD cable design absorbs shock from drops.
Simulate MIL STD 810G, Method 514.4, Procedure I, Category 10, Fig 16 & 17/ASTM4169, Truck Transport, 11.5.2 Random test, Assurance Level II
Spill Resistant:	
Spill resistant keyboard, touchpad and switches.
Spill resistant design stops spills from seeping into sensitive interior parts.
Optical Disk Lock:	
Exclusive optical disk tray lock prevents unintentional tray eject from drop and vibration.
Battery Protection:	
Double protection smart battery circuitry prevents damage caused by current or voltage surges and overheating.
Smart Battery Calibration helps fight the loss of battery capacity after repeated charge-discharge cycles.

Security Feature:
Smart Card and TPM:		Kensington Lock/Administrator password/One small Card Socket for identity protection & TPM 1.2 support

System Specifications:
CPU:		-Intel® Core i3 2.53GHz, i5 2.66GHz, i7 2.80GHz
Operating System:	
Windows 7 Home Premium
Windows 7 Professional
Windows 7 Ultimate
RAM:	
Two DDR III SODIMM Slots 2GB (Max. 8GB)
Keyboard:	
Spill resistant Keyboard (85 keys)
Screen:	
15.6" WXGA
USB2.0:	
x3
Monitor port	
x1
PCMCIA	
x1
HDD:	
250/320/500GB SATA - 32/64/128/256GB SSD
CD-ROM:	
DVD Super Multi
Battery:	
Lithium-Ion
Int. Modem:	
56Kbps
Int. Ethernet:	
10/100/1000BaseT
Wireless:	
Built-in 802.11 b/g/n module
Additional Photosback to top

About the Manufacturerback to top

GammaTech Computer Corp. is a major manufacturer of the DURABOOK portable notebook computer line. Over the past 18+ years, GammaTech - DURABOOK has positioned itself as one of the largest suppliers of innovative notebook computers in the world. Because of their worldwide presence, GammaTech - DURABOOK is capable of responding to the needs of portable computer users worldwide. GammaTech - DURABOOK is proud to deliver the highest quality rugged notebooks available at the most competitive pricing possible. With 18+ years of experience in the U.S. and worldwide market, GammaTech - DURABOOK has consistently produced award-winning DURABOOK ruggedized notebooks.

6 months on battery warranty does not fill me will confidence but at least I can change, if I buy a spare. That the new macs have a welded in battery is not good for someone who is not going to be near a service centre, also I can not carry a spare.

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## Cthulhu

^ it's not "welded in".

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## Butterfly

it's always hilarious to see clueless users trying to make sense of the specs and think they can optimize that deal instead of focusing on their needs

like buying an i5 machine for your grandmother, because the specs are "cool"

just look at the screen factor and the price, that's all there is to look at these days.

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## harrybarracuda

^ And, because Buttplug doesn't understand PCs, the RAM.

email them and ask them what you can get for $2K and post the options here.

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## Carrabow

> it's always hilarious to see clueless users trying to make sense of the specs and think they can optimize that deal instead of focusing on their needs
> 
> like buying an i5 machine for your grandmother, because the specs are "cool"
> 
> just look at the screen factor and the price, that's all there is to look at these days.


 
BF, when are you going to realize that the computer you bought the other day is now outdated?

The phone in your hand is in the same boat.

Are you that retarded?

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## Cthulhu

> Are you that retarded?


Do you need me to answer that? Really?
 ::chitown::

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## harrybarracuda

Surely a rhetorical question.

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## Carrabow

> Surely a rhetorical question.


 
It is a fact his pocket book can not keep up with.  :Confused:

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## Cthulhu

> Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
> 
> 
> Surely a rhetorical question.
> 
> 
>  
> It is a fact his pocket book can not keep up with.


.... or his ass, when confronted by a ceiling tile...

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## Butterfly

> ^ And, because Buttplug doesn't understand PCs, the RAM.


I know your job is to buy hardware based solely on your available budget to justify your work,

but who needs more than 1GB Ram to do basic surfing shit, email, office and a few apps ? since all those PCs come with more than 1Gb by default, it's hardly a question to ask yourself

so to recap, all you need to know is the color, screen size and price, and of course, not least, the "cool" factor

----------


## Butterfly

> BF, when are you going to realize that the computer you bought the other day is now outdated?
> 
> The phone in your hand is in the same boat.


not sure what is your point, since by default they are all outdated within a few months,

are you Quack Quack retarded by any chance ? that's why you need the "cool" factor in any PC, it's the only thing that matters

having high specs is no longer "cool", you need colors, screen size and "shapes" like that Air mac

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## Butterfly

squealing about having an i5 or an i7 is like bragging about having the latest VIO with the 1600cc engine instead of the default 1400cc

it's hilarious  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
> 
> ^ And, because Buttplug doesn't understand PCs, the RAM.
> 
> 
> I know your job is to buy hardware based solely on your available budget to justify your work,
> 
> but who needs more than 1GB Ram to do basic surfing shit, email, office and a few apps ? since all those PCs all come with more than 1Gb by default, it's hardly a question to ask yourself
> 
> so to recap, all you need to know is the color, screen size and price, and of course, not least, the "cool" factor


Butters, stick to onanism and fellatio, no-one can match your talents in those arenas.

Because when it comes to Windows, you sure do talk out of your well-worn arse.

 :mid:

----------


## Carrabow

> Originally Posted by Carrabow
> 
> BF, when are you going to realize that the computer you bought the other day is now outdated?
> 
> The phone in your hand is in the same boat.
> 
> 
> not sure what is your point, since by default they are all outdated within a few months,
> 
> ...


 
BF,

Are you ADD?

Please, tell us something worth listening too. Colors? Shapes? You sound like a retarded kid where you you have to shove blocks in a hole. The only problem is you can not figure it out

----------


## Butterfly

> Because when it comes to Windows, you sure do talk out of your well-worn arse.


you know Windows ? sure you do but as a cleaning up guru, isn't what maids do ?  :Smile:

----------


## Butterfly

> BF,
> 
> Are you ADD?


why are you constantly looking for my attention, told you, I don't know you and I don't date strangers on the Internet

----------


## harrybarracuda

^ That's right Carrabow, only Soi 6 and Loi Kroh for BF.

 :rofl:

----------


## Carrabow

> Originally Posted by Carrabow
> 
> BF,
> 
> Are you ADD?
> 
> 
> why are you constantly looking for my attention, told you, I don't know you and I don't date strangers on the Internet


 
Ooh... Why are you always trying to make me feel bad? Do you feel better with the upper hand?

Hey BF,

Suck it up... Yer fat and you know it.

Let's change your nic to the *Chunky Monkey *

----------


## Cthulhu

> BF,
> 
> Are you ADD?


Sounds more like Aspergers....





> Please, tell us something worth listening too. Colors? Shapes? You sound like a retarded kid where you you have to shove blocks in a hole


Maybe with a healthy serving of Aphasia thrown in?

----------


## Butterfly

> That's right Carrabow, only Soi 6 and Loi Kroh for BF.


you are a regular too ? see you there then  :Smile:

----------


## Carrabow

> Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
> 
> That's right Carrabow, only Soi 6 and Loi Kroh for BF.
> 
> 
> you are a regular too ? see you there then


 
When you come through the door, they do recognise you.

Be humble, you have a fan club.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
> 
> That's right Carrabow, only Soi 6 and Loi Kroh for BF.
> 
> 
> you are a regular too ? see you there then


I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you have those katoey cocks to yourself, Buttplug.

 :Smile:

----------


## Sailing into trouble

> ^ And, because Buttplug doesn't understand PCs, the RAM.
> 
> email them and ask them what you can get for $2K and post the options here.


Did that Harry. Told them about But plugs comments, and they said tht the next time they find shit on his slot drive they are going to void his warranty!

----------

