#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > Health, Fitness and Hospitals in Thailand >  >  High Blood Pressure

## Dick

greetings , been a lurker for sometime already

looking for some help with my high blood pressure 


do not like taking meds every day and was wondering what experience the people here have had 

was told the whole salt and loose weight thing 

thai food is beyond salty and unhealthy on the most part and being a westerner here it was also suggested the hotter constant climate could also be a cause of elevated blood pressure 

I know stroke and all the bad that often follows untreated HP

So your thoughts please ?

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## Begbie

Depends on what you term high blood pressure. A couple of pills in the morning isn't a great hardship. I'm told a slab of dark chocolate a day also works.

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## Dick

> Depends on what you term high blood pressure. A couple of pills in the morning isn't a great hardship. I'm told a slab of dark chocolate a day also works.




Do you take a couple of pills for HP every morning

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## Begbie

We're talking about you Dick. What's the issue with pills ?

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## Dick

> We're talking about you Dick. What's the issue with pills ?



not happy with the solution of taking pills for what I am told will be the rest of my life

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## crippen

What do you mean high??? :Confused:

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## Larn

As someone who takes his BP pills every morning I suggest you listen to what your Dr says. One of my colleagues refused to take his BP pills. He died aged mid 40's early this year.

The Dr's say once you start taking the pills you can't stop . That's not always true. If you adjust your lifestyle there's a chance the Dr will allow you to stop.

For me I find smoking increases my BP. If you smoke, stop, then work on exercise. Lose weight. Alcohol increases BP too. It's as if all the good things in life are bad for you.

I work overseas but live in Thailand. While away at work I need the pills to control my BP. It's a combination of things like work stress, smoking.

Once back in Thailand I quit smoking, no work stress and I'm out exercising. Within days my BP lowers, I stop taking the medication (under medical supervision) and within a week my BP is in the normal range and stays there. 

That's my experience.

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## Dick

> As someone who takes his BP pills every morning I suggest you listen to what your Dr says. One of my colleagues refused to take his BP pills. He died aged mid 40's early this year.
> 
> The Dr's say once you start taking the pills you can't stop . That's not always true. If you adjust your lifestyle there's a chance the Dr will allow you to stop.
> 
> For me I find smoking increases my BP. If you smoke, stop, then work on exercise. Lose weight. Alcohol increases BP too. It's as if all the good things in life are bad for you.
> 
> I work overseas but live in Thailand. While away at work I need the pills to control my BP. It's a combination of things like work stress, smoking.
> 
> Once back in Thailand I quit smoking, no work stress and I'm out exercising. Within days my BP lowers, I stop taking the medication (under medical supervision) and within a week my BP is in the normal range and stays there. 
> ...




thank you for this candid reply

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## Airportwo

Pills will do a great job of "masking" the real problem!
Take responsibility for your health! slow down on the alcohol consumption, exercise and eat properly, no more excuses!
Or you can take the pills and suffer the dire consequences - up to you!  :Smile:   Don't believe Doctors! (Drug salesman!)
And quit the bloody Smoking! poor excuses dont wash!

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## Kaviar

I had a heart attack about six years ago (lucky to be alive). After a simple operation to clear a blood clot in my heart, I have been fine since then, but I do suffer from Hypertension occasionally. So naturally I have investigated the subject in Depth.
In simple terms, High blood pressure means it is harder for your heart to pump blood around your body, as your head is the highest point that is the most susceptible to having a problem i.e. a stroke.
There are a number of reasons for high blood pressure e.g. Narrowing of the arteries, harding of the arteries blocked arteries, overweight (if your overweight your heart needs to work harder to pump blood around your body, especially if you do to much exercise like a takeaway every night from the bars in Walking St,.)
 Having said all that, how do you know you have high blood pressure.  If you have just had one blood pressure check, then this alone is not grounds for you to be diagnosed as suffering from Hypertension.
Unusually High blood pressure is a sign that you need a thorough examination i.e. Blood test, ECG, ultra scan etc. to find the root cause!

I have been taking two tablets everyday for the last six years and it's no big deal! It's much more acceptable if they cut down the chances off another heart attack.

Having said all that, the best advice I have is go see a consultant Cardiologist and tell him to give you the full Monty examination.

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## Dick

> I had a heart attack about six years ago (lucky to be alive). After a simple operation to clear a blood clot in my heart, I have been fine since then, but I do suffer from Hypertension occasionally. So naturally I have investigated the subject in Depth.
> In simple terms, High blood pressure means it is harder for your heart to pump blood around your body, as your head is the highest point that is the most susceptible to having a problem i.e. a stroke.
> There are a number of reasons for high blood pressure e.g. Narrowing of the arteries, harding of the arteries blocked arteries, overweight (if your overweight your heart needs to work harder to pump blood around your body, especially if you do to much exercise like a takeaway every night from the bars in Walking St,.)
>  Having said all that, how do you know you have high blood pressure.  If you have just had one blood pressure check, then this alone is not grounds for you to be diagnosed as suffering from Hypertension.
> Unusually High blood pressure is a sign that you need a thorough examination i.e. Blood test, ECG, ultra scan etc. to find the root cause!
> 
> I have been taking two tablets everyday for the last six years and it's no big deal! It's much more acceptable if they cut down the chances off another heart attack.
> 
> Having said all that, the best advice I have is go see a consultant Cardiologist and tell him to give you the full Monty examination.




Had checks upon checks 

I could lose 5kg but not really overweight and exercise quite regularly

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## tuktukdriver

Simple - lose weight. I don't understand why it's that difficult. Most people eat way too much.

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## ossierob

I too had a heart attack 4 years back and can only advise to listen to your doctor/s. and follow what you believe to be the best advice for your condition. You insinuated you have spoken with several medical practititioners so just analyse their prognosis and go with it. I take a couple of pills each morning and evening with one being fish oil and it is no probs. As it is I am not overweight, dont drink alcohol, gave up smoking a few years before my heart attack and have a reasonable level of fitness and health other than my ticker. As mentioned in earlier posts there can be several causes for narrowing of your arteries that can be a possible cause for your high BP so just accept the medical advice and get on with it....

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## grasshopper

I sit here now with my chest zipper still itching and having to do breathing and other exercises. I thought i was fit as and was not carrying a lot of weight. A skinny bastard, really.

A stroke of luck, rather than a stroke, has me here now contemplating a further twenty years. A mate in Patts suggested we take advantage of Sri Racha Hospital's offer of certain tests etc available only to an expat's club for 4500K. 

I was already taking some meds, Norvasc and some cholesterol tablet, and was walking 2 hrs most mornings and walking down the 10 flights to commence walking. A robber's dog in physique. My Oz GP said i needed to start on the meds as hypertension was creeping in. Not boozing overly much, a few SML every day and I liked Thai food, cos it kept me thin.

So, I takes the tests, my cholesterol and calcium levels were quite high. A stress test is further cost and I thought, hmm. Is this just overservicing? Any way, took that tests and the graph showed something. An angiogramme was suggested and talk of fitting a stent and/or worse. I cried off and took the results back home and saw my GP. The cost of the visit had ballooned from 4500K to over 15000K.
But it was well worth it.

When I got home I saw the GP and was referred to a cardiologist in Sydney. The same tests showed the same result, mostly all on Medicare thankfully. I then went to the San Hospital and had the angiogramme. I thought, I am as fit as, so it will be proven a false echo. No such luck! I was a walking coronary occlusion about to occur. Got the operation done and am now out. It was sheer hell, at the beginning, but i had to get on with it. It cost me quite a bit even with Medicare benefits but it would have cost more in LOS because I had no cover. 

I recommend that you visit Sri Racha or one of the other hospitals, if you are over there, and get the tests done.  If you are a member or know a member of one of the expats club you maybe can get a package deal. But 15000 baht is no big deal if it saves you from a less satisfactory outcome in the future. The facilities there are probably better than the biggest hospitals here in Sydney, and the nurses are far prettier.  :Smile: 

Some of the reasons can be genetic and some diet and lifestyle. Me, I am still scratching my head, Mum and Dad died in their 80s. Go figure, as the Yanks say.

One other good thing to come out of it! I lost about 5-7 kgs and now weigh about the same as in my 40s and cycling long distance and being in a swim squad. Howzat!

Downside - I lost my arse somewhere and all my pants fall off me. Nothing to hang them on.

As one guy used to sign off with: Life is just a "short time", so live it that way. 





 :Aussie:

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## Humbert

A lot of good advice here; maintain a normal weight, don't smoke, cut down alcohol consumption, excercise regularly. You don't mention what your blood pressure is. You need to go under a doctor's supervision with high blood pressure because it is a potenially life threatening condition. You should check your BP daily with a digital monitor. If your doctor puts you on meds he can then monitor your condition daily by reviewing your log and make adjustments. I have high blood pressure and a couple of pills daily is not too much bother to provide a little peace of mind.

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## artist

Stay off the piss

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## nidhogg

I am just getting into this myself. As I understand it, it really depends upon how high your blood pressure is.  Mine is at 130 to 140/90, which is just on the edge of requireing medication, and needs watching.

For now I am watching what I eat, drinking less and trying to cut down on stress.  I will go back in two months and get checked again, to see if any difference.

If my BP was above 140 - we are in meds territory definately, or face very serious consequences.

So, i'll try the diet/life style schtick first and see how it goes, but for OP it depends on how high was your reading, and when it was taken (if you had just run up 10 flights of stairs before the test, it would be higher).  So, best is two reading, at least one after resting for half a hour or so.

However - the REAL message is, don't get information that may save your life (or kill you) off a web board. Find a Doc you trust and go with that.  If you did not like the first doc, change and find one you think you can trust.

Advice here could easily kill you, however well meaning.....

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## Lorenzo

> Alcohol increases BP too.


Surprised to hear that. Any additional info you know of in this regard?

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## Larn

^A quick google gives plenty of hits. He's a website with some good info. Alcohol and blood pressure

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## Rascal

look into herbal and vitamins that do work. Do a google search and then just read up on this.
High BP is a big killer, I have it and it is mostly under control. I take vitamins and also medication. One pill. Oh look at your weight too, if you have overweight then losing will help you greatly.

good luck!

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## hazz

Untreated long term hypertension is a leading cause to renal failure which is not very nice.

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## Airportwo

I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes, Not medication, medication does nothing for the underlying causces, ALL drugs used to treat high blood pressure are Toxic!
We are becoming a society that relies more and more on drug companies!

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## Dick

> I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes, Not medication, medication does nothing for the underlying causces, ALL drugs used to treat high blood pressure are Toxic!
> We are becoming a society that relies more and more on drug companies!


What do you suggest ?

I have tried the low salt diet and still have high BP

Not a drinker or smoker

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## nidhogg

> I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes, Not medication, medication does nothing for the underlying causces, ALL drugs used to treat high blood pressure are Toxic!
> We are becoming a society that relies more and more on drug companies!


 
Hmm.  What the meds can do when properly used is give you TIME to get the problem under control by other means - diet, excercise etc.

High blood pressure is like walking around with a bomb inside you that could go off at any time.  Meds do have an important part in the management of high blood pressure.

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## Humbert

> I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes, Not medication, medication does nothing for the underlying causces, ALL drugs used to treat high blood pressure are Toxic!
> We are becoming a society that relies more and more on drug companies!


This is very bad advice. Please see a physician or you could end up on a slab or worse.

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## Katana

> This is very bad advice. Please see a physician or you could end up on a slab or worse.


Or worse ?

Mark

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## hazz

> Originally Posted by Airportwo
> 
> 
> I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes, Not medication, medication does nothing for the underlying causces, ALL drugs used to treat high blood pressure are Toxic!
> We are becoming a society that relies more and more on drug companies!
> 
> 
> This is very bad advice. Please see a physician or you could end up on a slab or worse.


my BP has been slowly raising for years and I got to a stage where I would need medication within a few years if I did not do anything about it. I did change my diet and started to exercise, my BP stabilised and is very very slowly going down. still have higher than normal BP but its not hypertension.

The problem is that once you start taking those pills you are taking them for life. But if you do not take them you could end up dead, half dead from a stroke or spending the rest of your life on dialysis. See a doctor maybe you have time to try life style changes but may be you don't

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## Takeovers

> I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes


I am sure that number is way too high. High blood pressure can occur without the usual causes like overweight and poor diet.



> medication does nothing for the underlying causces


True but high blood pressure is dangerous in itself. If the values are regularly higher than 90/150 medication is urgently needed even if you start to exercise and reduce weight.
High blood pressure affects the organs directly.

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## Airportwo

> Originally Posted by Airportwo
> 
> 
> I would guess that 99% of the cases of high blood pressure could be solved by lifestyle changes, Not medication, medication does nothing for the underlying causces, ALL drugs used to treat high blood pressure are Toxic!
> We are becoming a society that relies more and more on drug companies!
> 
> 
> What do you suggest ?
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to give advice, every bodies situation is different, but I find it strange that people accept taking prescription medicines for the longterm as normal, just a generalisation.
Have you tried eating differently, garlic, vit C, advocados, celery etc, drink lots of water etc, all good at normalising insulin levels which generaly in my understanding the causce of high blood pressure, certain foods like grains will boost insulin so if you suffer from high blood pressure will only make it worse.

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## lysander

Sometimes there's no apparent cause and then you have to take tablets if you want to survive to a reasonable age. This is called 'essential hypertension'.

Essential hypertension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Humbert

> Originally Posted by Humbert
> 
> 
> This is very bad advice. Please see a physician or you could end up on a slab or worse.
> 
> 
> Or worse ?
> 
> Mark


I consider a massive stroke leaving me without the use of half of my body and living in nursing home worse than death.

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## ossierob

I agree with Humbert that to be almost or totally dependent is worse than death.
Just to enlarge on my earlier post.....you dont have to be seeminly unhealthy to be at risk of coronary/artery disease....admittedly I did lead an out of control life during my younger years with getting pissed most days or nights and smoking all sorts of stuff.....but I had been clean and sober for over 10 years when I felt coronary pain...I returned from Chaing Mai to my GP in Australia for testing and consequent 3 stents into my heart. My surgeon told me I had a 99% blockage in the artiery called the 'widow maker' and potentially each step may have been my last. Prior to the pain I felt good....didnt drink or smoke or do drugs and wasnt overweight and played regular sport (walking and golf) and I eat healthily. It ended up I do have a genetic predisposition where my body produces an excess of cholestrol that had been building up on the walls of my arteryies for years. Now I need to chemically control the levels of cholestrol in my blood for life and take blood thinners....Even though HBP is not necessarily my problem it is closely related and my point is to do the appropriate checks and tests then evaluate the results and do whatever you need to do to maintain a level of health that you desire.   But do it....a couple of tablets a day is a good option and no hindrance really

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## Lorenzo

> He's a website with some good info. Alcohol and blood pressure


Recent research has confirmed that alcohol may put blood pressure up. The     lower your blood pressure the better, but it is best below 130/80, lower     still in some patients. A     careful research study recommends less than 6 drinks or units a week,     not really more than one a day. More than this leads to damage in the brain.

I was just reading how 2 - 3 glasses of wine or even a couple of beers a day is good for your heart.  

Source:  50 Ways to a Healthy Heart  by Christiaan Barnard

A lot of conflicting info around.

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## Jet Gorgon

^ Yep, lots of conflicting info. It must be genetic, if folks actually do live healthy. I reckon the low-stress life is best. A lover, couple of dogs, a beach and a fridge full of good food and wine, and some great corny tunes at the beach.  :Smile:

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## Larn

^^ I enjoy a beer or more as much as anyone else. I can only go on personal experience and what numerous doctors have told me. 

I guess the only way to find out is to check your BP, go  have a couple of drinks then check again. I know my BP increases after a drink or 2.

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## Airportwo

[quote=Lorenzo;1537647]


> He's a website with some good info. Alcohol and blood pressure


I was just reading how 2 - 3 glasses of wine or even a couple of beers a day is good for your heart. 

Source: 50 Ways to a Healthy Heart by Christiaan Barnard

A lot of conflicting info around.[/quote)

^ He died of a heart attack didnt he? relatively young as well!

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## malenurse

Dick, Take the blood pressure medication. Things could be worse. How about a stroke where you loose function of half your body, or the inability to talk because of a stroke. There are many different b/p meds. Control is the key. Exercise where you stress your heart for atleast 30 minutes 3 times a week. The only way to lose is you need to burn more calories than you take in. If you eat 3,000 calories a day, you need to burn over 3,000 calories a day to lose weight. Start slowly and build up your exercise routine. Once you start to losing weight, your b/p will come down. Also exercise is a stress relief, which will lower your b/p.

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## nidhogg

^  Good advice.

....sadly you will now probably get 5 replies telling you exactly why you are "wrong", but, as said, good advice.

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## Takeovers

> ^ Good advice.  ....sadly you will now probably get 5  replies telling you exactly why you are "wrong", but, as said, good  advice.


OK I will start. :Smile: 




> Once you start to losing weight, your b/p will come down. Also exercise is a stress relief, which will lower your b/p.


Yes good advice but don't expect too much. It may work well for some not so well for others. 

I started exercising and losing weight almost 2 years ago. Lost app.16kg and am close to my set goal now. The average blood pressure came barely down at all, I still need my medication. But one thing has changed to the better. The spikes of high blood pressure I had occasionally despite medication have almost completely gone.

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## Dick

I went for a sleep test as was told suffering from severe sleep  apnea and this is a noted cause for very high blood pressure

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## rickschoppers

> Sometimes there's no apparent cause and then you have to take tablets if you want to survive to a reasonable age. This is called 'essential hypertension'.
> 
> Essential hypertension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Lysander is on the right track. All advice I have read so far with regard to diet, weight loss, smoking and stress factors can contibute to increasing blood pressure. It is always good to see if something physiological is causing the increase in blood pressure. Often times, once corrected, elevated blood pressure will decline. One example is checking to see if renal arteries are constricted. This is treatable and can be corrected in most cases to bring blood pressure back into the normal range. Once all known causes are ruled out, things move into the "Essential Hypertension" category which mean no cause can be found. If you are diagnosed with essential hypertension, the only choice is then medication that will lower blood pressure. There are many antihypertensives and everyone will react differently, so your physician will need to try various drugs before finding one that best controls your blood pressure. Personally, I would ask the physician for a once daily medication that has a generic available that is much lower in cost than the newer brand name drugs. Hydrochlorothiazide is pennies and also works as a diuretic if you are also retaining water. Low sodium diets are always recommended since salt will increase blood pressure along with other things already mentioned. 
If you do have essential hypertension and do not take a medication to reduce your blood pressure, do not expect to live a full life. If you think you are going to die soon from some other disease state, or being hit by a train, it is a moot point. Not to take blood pressure medication is not a smart thing and not near as controversial as taking medications for other health issues. It is your call, but I would first see if something is causing your high blood pressure that can be corrected and if not, take a once a day medication every morning.

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## DrAndy

> The spikes of high blood pressure I had occasionally despite medication have almost completely gone.


everyone gets those, quite normal

it is having a consistently high blood pressure that leads to problems

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## taffyapple

:cmn: anyone with high bp.read my posts on alternative diets.

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## Takeovers

See also my post (New Cholestrol Drug Amazes) on the New Cholesterol Drug thread. There is a very promising blood pressure treatment for patients that could not be successfully treated with medication.

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## FarangRed

Had mine checked this morning is normal not bad for an old bastard like me.

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## BigRed

> Originally Posted by Takeovers
> 
> The spikes of high blood pressure I had occasionally despite medication have almost completely gone.
> 
> 
> everyone gets those, quite normal
> 
> it is having a consistently high blood pressure that leads to problems



erm, maybe not: BBC News - Blood pressure fluctuations 'warning sign for stroke'

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## BigRed

> Dick, Take the blood pressure medication. Things could be worse. How about a stroke where you loose function of half your body, or the inability to talk because of a stroke. There are many different b/p meds. Control is the key. Exercise where you stress your heart for at least 30 minutes 3 times a week. The only way to lose is you need to burn more calories than you take in. If you eat 3,000 calories a day, you need to burn over 3,000 calories a day to lose weight. Start slowly and build up your exercise routine. Once you start to losing weight, your b/p will come down. Also exercise is a stress relief, which will lower your b/p.


Regarding exercise, try reading Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin - TIME and also The Health Benefits of Moderate Exercise | Mark&#039;s Daily Apple

For the calories, read Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. I thought it was generally accepted these days that the old calories in equals calories burned argument is far too simplistic. Consider a glass of coke, if you lower it's temperature by 5 degrees do you get the same nett calories from it? of course not, your body expends energy warming it up. You also have to look at how many calories get extracted by the body and how many get excreted. A really good summary is here: A Summary of Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes

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## Takeovers

> Consider a glass of coke, if you lower it's temperature by 5 degrees do you get the same nett calories from it? of course not, your body expends energy warming it up.


Nice theory, also true in reality but how much? 1 calory is per definition the energy needed to heat up water by 1°C. So assume your glass of coke has 0.2 liters. Then heating it up 5°C requires 1 calory.

That same glass of coke contains 84 kcal of energy, mainly as sugar. Note the k in kcal. That means the coke gives you 84.000 times the energy required to heat it up by 5°C.

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## BigRed

^ 
A standard 330ml can of coke has 140 Cal (note the big C)  so it is approx. a third of a litre. The average fridge is at 2 Centigrade so you could expect at least 15 Centigrade difference between one out of the fridge and one at room temperature, that gives 5 Cal difference or around 3.5%. Not a tremendous difference but it just shows that all things are not equal. There are many complex inter-reactions in the body and some are more efficient than others. 

Note that there are two definitions of calorie, one is the scientific definition which is the energy to heat 1 gram of water by 1°C, the second is the nutritional definition which is to heat 1 kg of water by 1°C. The former is normally spelt with a small 'c' and the latter with a large 'C'.  kilocalories are always based on the scientific definition. It is normally obvious from context which unit is being used, it is fairly obvious that a glass of coke doesn't contain the energy to heat itself up by 5°C 84,000 times  :Very Happy: 

An example of all calories not being equal is the findings of research at Princeton: 
A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all  sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access  to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those  with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was  the same.  

Princeton University - A sweet problem: Princeton researchers find that high-fructose corn syrup prompts considerably more weight gain

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## Takeovers

> it is fairly obvious that a glass of coke doesn't contain the energy to heat itself up by 5°C 84,000 times


You are right, this example shows why I should have picked up my calculation error by myself and not only after you pointed it out for me.

But it also shows that the temperature difference even with that error removed still only cancels barely over 1% of the calorie intake. That is still negligible.








> An example of all calories not being equal is the findings of research at Princeton: A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.


Yes I agree. It is my own experience too, not with Corn Syrup but with the balance of carbohydrates and fat. Calories in fat are better for me than carbohydrates in general as I experienced over years. And yes I believe there seems to be something wrong with high intakes of fructose. I just link that to fructose and not specifically to corn syrup fructose. Corn syrup just happens to be the most common source of fructose in our food today.

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## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Takeovers
> ...


 
oh dear, that seems to be a new version of events




> It is not know exactly why occasional spikes would increase a person's risk of stroke but it is thought it puts undue stress on the system.


I am doomed then, see you all in heaven (?)

It does not say what the incease in risk is but I suppose it must be significant statistically

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## chitown

I have a good friend that is a doctor in Denmark. He claims drinking 2 liters of water will eliminate high blood pressure. I do and no problems now, but it used to be high several years ago.

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## BigRed

> I have a good friend that is a doctor in Denmark. He claims drinking 2 liters of water will eliminate high blood pressure. I do and no problems now, but it used to be high several years ago.


Interesting, I've not come across that one before. I suppose it's too much to hope for that beer counts, I'd be quids in.

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## taffyapple

:cmn: thats interesting i never used to drink much water till after i got the t-shirt my bp. is fine but i take bp.tabs.every day,looking back i did suffer with a lot of stress at work.

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## blue

i try to eat  some oats and porridge every day

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## rickschoppers

I am sure you will find many diets online for high blood pressure, but the bottom line is a low sodium diet. Sodium forces the body to retain fluid and the more fluid the body retains, the higher the blood pressure goes. It is pretty much hemodynamics. Most blood pressure medications act on blood vessels to make sure they relax and therefore have a larger diameter. If you constrict the blood vessels, the blood pressure goes up. If you take a diuretic like Hydrochlorothiazide, fluid in pushed out of the body via the kidneys which will also decrease blood pressure.
Oats or fiber are a good idea since they do lower cholesterol, but that is all discussed on another thread. Bottom line is to decrease sodium, don't stress too much since this also constricts the blood vessels and will raise bp. In other words, don't worry about things too much and cut back on the soy sauce.

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## blue

is trying to sweat excess  salt out ,a good idea then ?

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## rickschoppers

Nope, that will just dehydrate you and screw up your sodium and potassium levels which can be dangerous and lead to major problems. Just don't take excess sodium in and watch your intake.

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## taffyapple

:cmn: just took a look at a can of cider no salt.

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## DrAndy

I just had a salt free bottle of wine with my lunch

seems to be fine

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## rickschoppers

Be careful with those secret sauces in Thai food Doc, they are a killer.

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## Bower

> I have a good friend that is a doctor in Denmark. He claims drinking 2 liters of water will eliminate high blood pressure. I do and no problems now, but it used to be high several years ago.


I too have been told this by a Dr friend of mine in Africa and also read about it in a newspaper in Cuba.
Also its one of the few recomendations i have heard that, if it doesn't work, it wont harm you..............................or does someone know different ?

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## hazz

^i have no problem believing that drinking extra water could help with blood pressure. Water is toxic and people do die from drinking too much of it, does require a huculean effort. It kills becase the water washes the sodium and potassium out of your body and once your electrolytes drop below a critical level lots of stuff, like your nerve cells stop working and you die.

So in a round about way, drinking lots of water has the same effect as eating less salt

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## Zone

> I went for a sleep test as was told suffering from severe sleep apnea and this is a noted cause for very high blood pressure


 
Hey Dick, I see a lot of confusion here,your problem is SO, SO simple to overcome.

1- Forget about treating symptoms as drug companies do!! (unless you have a life threatening situation now),,, You must treat the CAUSE.

2- Educate yourself, I'm sure you are trying. Google ''ross horne 5th edition'' Read the book 'the health revolution' on line -free. Read it at least twice..!!!

3- Immediately eliminate ALL -YES ALL, fats and oils from your diet, Right down to the last speck. Be fanatical about it . You won't be deficient Because All foods contain some oil/fat,, even the humble lettuce.

4- Eliminate ALL salt, be tough, ALL salt.. (most veges have sodium so you will not be deficient). 

5- Drink water not alcohol

6- Excercise, slowly,but lots of it, Hours of walking each day, walking till you sweat if you can without straining your heart- see book.

Good luck, Z one

 ''If you say you would rather die than change your lifstyle,,you will'' -Ross Horne.

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## nidhogg

> 2- Educate yourself, I'm sure you are trying. Google ''ross horne 5th edition'' Read the book 'the health revolution' on line -free. Read it at least twice..!!!
> 
> 
> ''If you say you would rather die than change your lifstyle,,you will'' -Ross Horne.


I believe he was also the author of "Cancerproof your body"

Ironic really.

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## rickschoppers

Just shows that there is no fullproof way to cheat death. If it is your time no diet or words of wisdom with keep the grim reaper away. He did live into his 80s, so maybe there was something to his diet theory.

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## taffyapple

:cmn: done it,been there,had it done 2x12inch scars and a heart that ticks like a time bomb.

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## Takeovers

> 3- Immediately eliminate ALL -YES ALL, fats and oils from your diet, Right down to the last speck. Be fanatical about it . You won't be deficient Because All foods contain some oil/fat,, even the humble lettuce.


Nonsense. That anti fat drive gets ever more ridiculous.




> 4- Eliminate ALL salt, be tough, ALL salt.. (most veges have sodium so you will not be deficient).


Not harmful, but completely unnecessary. The human body is well equipped to deal with sodium in some quantity, if you drink enough. There is  a small group of people with a genetic inability to deal with sodium. They should avoid it, true. But that is even only a small group within the people with high blood pressure. 




> 5- Drink water not alcohol


OK.




> 6- Excercise, slowly,but lots of it, Hours of walking each day, walking till you sweat if you can without straining your heart- see book.


Good advice.

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## Takeovers

> He did live into his 80s, so maybe there was something to his diet theory.


Probably the walking part.

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## Zone

Quotes by Takeovers-

''nonsense. that anti fat drive gets ever more rediculous''
''Calories in fat are better for me''

''I still need my medication''

?????



Spoken like a true champion

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## Panda

Common things that cause high blood pressure are ;--
* Alcohol, -- it causes dehydration and that makes the viscosity of your blood thicker meaning it takes more force to push it around. Alcohol is also cardiotoxic weakening your heart and so the arteries nip up, which in turn increases the pressure to get the required volume of blood around.
* Salt, -- Kidneys cause the pressure to rise so it can be filtered out of the system. 
*Nicotine causes arteries to nip up, increasing pressure.
*Caffeine also causes arteries to nip up increasing the pressure.
*Stress causes a prolonged, low grade state of "fight or flight response" releasing adrenaline in excess, also nipping up the arteries and increasing the pressure.
*Obesity means you need more pressure to get the blood around those extra kilometers of blood vessels.

If you are relatively young eg: 40s, you should get some result by knocking off nicotine, caffeine, salt, alcohol and by reducing stress and making sure you are well hydrated. That takes care of part of the problem associated with the arteries.
Next you can increase the efficiency of the pump. Lose weight if you are obese. Get reasonably fit. The heart will build up strength like any muscle if given a regular workout and time to rest and recover.

Unfortunately, if you are older, say 50 plus, chances are that your arteries will be clogged up with fatty crusty shit and narrowed. That means your body needs more pressure to get the blood around. And if its been going on for decades the old ticker is probably tired and stretched from working against all this excess pressure day and night. That means as the cardiac output drops the arteries need to nip up even more to maintain pressure. Thats when the pills become the ONLY option.

For a normal sized adult the normal upper limits are 140/90.  The 90 being the back pressure in the elastic arteries when the heart is at rest between beats. And the 140 being the pressure when the heart contracts. The lower diastolic number "90" generally tells more about the problem than the larger number.

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## Takeovers

> ''I still need my medication''  ?????    Spoken like a true champion


I do understand that you have problems with reading comprehension.

So I add a short recap of my statements for your easier comprehension.

I tried a low fat diet according to standard diet recommendations but it did not work. It caused me massive hunger attacks and as a result weight gain. 
So as a last resort I increased fat intake and reduced carbo hydrates but still maintain a varied diet wit fat, carbohydrates and protein. That worked well for me, the fat reduced my hunger attacks and I was able to substantially reduce weight. I have not yet reached the final weight goal yet and hope to reach it some time this year.
The weight reduction has not yet a major impact on my blood pressure. So I do need to take my medication to control blood pressure. However I found that the spikes in blood pressure I previously experienced despite medication have receded.
I also stated it worked well for me but may not work for everybody as people are different.

I do not believe in any extreme diets, like eliminating fat or carbohydrates completely.

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## blue

what causes low blood pressure?
maybe eating lots of potassium rich food like bananas

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## Bower

> what causes low blood pressure?
> maybe eating lots of potassium rich food like bananas


Oh please be wrong, i eat at least one a day, its my favorite snack.

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## Panda

> what causes low blood pressure?
> maybe eating lots of potassium rich food like bananas


Thats a tricky one. Could be anything from being super fit, or a small body to terminal heart failure. My wife has a normal BP of 90/65 which is below the average norm, but is perfectly OK for her. Its when you get a trend over time out of the normal range that you need to worry. Peoples BP vary with mood and time of day, so one high or low reading shouldn't be of concern. See your Doc if worried about low BP. Blood and urine tests will identify electrolyte problems.
Basically, if its normal for you, then its normal, but if its a changing trend then it needs to be investigated.

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by blue
> 
> 
> what causes low blood pressure?
> maybe eating lots of potassium rich food like bananas
> 
> 
> Oh please be wrong, i eat at least one a day, its my favorite snack.


Not to worry. There is only about 1mEq of potassium per each inch of banana and the normal daily requirement for an adult is 40-50mEq. That is a lot of bananas unless you eat one 2 feet long. 
Bananas are also good if you are on a diuretic for high blood pressure or a combination drug that contains one. Potassium is lost while taking this type of medication, so replenishment is often needed.

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## taffyapple

:cmn: we have all in thailand forgot to mention the bigest cause,thai builders and being sat in the front seat of thai driving a car,try to aviode,o fnuk i always fly thai.

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## hazz

If you are taking potassium substitutes for salt then you do need at adjust the weights and volumes a bit

for a 40% sodium, 60% potassium mix

by weight, you need to use about 20% more because kcl is heavier than salt
by volume you need to use about 40% more because kcl is less dense and heavier than salt

if you are using potassium bicarbonate for baking:

by weight and volume you need to use about 20% more

BTW potassium is just a little radioactive (:

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## Dick

Nice info , thank you 






> Originally Posted by Dick
> 
> 
> I went for a sleep test as was told suffering from severe sleep apnea and this is a noted cause for very high blood pressure
> 
> 
>  
> Hey Dick, I see a lot of confusion here,your problem is SO, SO simple to overcome.
> 
> ...

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## Takeovers

Hi Dick

Yes the Information is partly quite good. But the advice to eliminate ALL fats from your diet is major bullshit. An unbalanced diet cannot be the way to health.

Also it is not at all related to your situation. Severe sleep apnoe is a very dangerous condition and needs treatment. 

It may be partly caused by severe overweight and in that case the advie by Zone could help you reduce that weight. But don't neglect the doctors advice on handling the apnoe.

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## Glenda11

Hi,

I am also searching for an alternative meds for hypertension for my grandmother and I saw an ad about a transdermal device. Have you heard about Doxyva? They say it is effective.

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## Pragmatic

Looks quackery to me.  


> Online Price $239.00.

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## Glenda11

Hi,

It seems though however if we will check how it works and its benefits it is impressive. what I love about it is the way how you will be treated. most of us right now are takings meds that can affect our kidneys and that is the reason why I would love to know more about this device. I hope we can talk to someone who have tried it.

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## BaitongBoy

Welcome to the Buffalo Board, Glenda...

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## Pragmatic

> It seems though however if we will check how it works and its benefits it is impressive.


Can you stick it up your Nong Noy? By the way, I see they 'closed' the thread you started over there on the other forum.

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## Seekingasylum

Indeed, this is a valuable tool in reducing blood pressure but it only works if you are a naive, credulous fuckwit with a borderline IQ verging on imbecility or an American.

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