#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Farming & Gardening In Thailand >  >  Thai wasps

## hillbilly

Yesterday, I came across a rather large 'paper wasp' nest. It sounds sorta like 'dow' in Thai. 


I avoided getting stung. The Thais said the wasp was fairly dangerous and the wasp stings hurts alot.

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## benbaaa

There was a wasp nest in the garden of our school last year and the Thai staff took it very seriously - they said three or four stings and you could die. It didn't look like your one, Hillary, but you be careful, anyway, ok?  :Smile:

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## Thetyim

Careful there, mate.

Did they say 'dow' or 'dor'

'Dor' is a hornet

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## RandomChances

> 'Dor' is a hornet


If you mean the ones that look like big evil flying ants then yes Dor and they hurt like hell when they sting, often they will gang up and you'll get a few all at once

The really big black and yellow flying thins are called "dten"

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## stroller

Yeah, it's the hornets which can kill. Takes more than 4 stings for an adult, though.

The white larvae are a delicacy.

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## Skulldigger

> Originally Posted by Thetyim
> 
> 'Dor' is a hornet
> 
> 
> If you mean the ones that look like big evil flying ants then yes Dor and they hurt like hell when they sting, often they will gang up and you'll get a few all at once
> 
> The really big black and yellow flying thins are called "dten"


About 6 years or so ago I stayed overnight in Mae Hong Son. The Canadian chick in the bungalow next to mine had to leave early in the morning to get to the airport, and so she woke up when it was still dark. She reached into her backpack for her toothbrush and disturbed the 'dten' inside (didnt know they were called 'dten') which stung her. I woke up from her scream and got out to see what was going on, and realized it was not a big problem so I went back to bed. When I got up for real she was still there - apparently her ride hadnt shown up as he promised, so she'd missed the flight.

But her finger had swollen up something ridiculous. Maybe she was allergic or hypersensitive, I dont know - but her finger was double its normal size.

Anyone else seen stings from those 'dten'?

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## RandomChances

> 'Dor' is a hornet


Tyim this is as close a pic as what I've been told is "Dor"







> Anyone else seen stings from those 'dten'?


I've been stung by one. The things I refer to as "dor" are worse IMO, worse than scorpian stings as well.

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## Thetyim

The Asian Hornet looks like this.

I have seen a deserted nest and the cells are BIG,
so the real thing must be like a huge wasp.

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## mrsquirrel

Get them in the house every so often. The missus runs around screaming trying to tell me to hit it with the electric swatter.

I think it safer to just open the mozzie screens and hit the deck.

I was chased by hornets once when I was a kid. Fuckign scary. Riding my bike getting to one of those lovers gates and having to throw my bike over get back up and pedal like mad as these angry buzzing bastards chased me.

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## mrsquirrel

Missus says the one above will kill but the big black one is ok and beautiful

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## Goddess of Whatever

They are delicious, of course.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## RandomChances

> The Asian Hornet looks like this.  I have seen a deserted nest and the cells are BIG, so the real thing must be like a huge wasp.


They call them "dten" here and the black/purple wasp things "dor"




> Missus says the one above will kill but the big black one is ok and beautiful


They rarley sting, but I've been stung by both types and the black ones are worse....different people react diferently though. a balck and tellow wasp thing got me today, hurt a lot, but no long term swelling or pain. 

I'll add I get stung a lot cos of being out on the land, triming back hedges, clearing bush ect, the wasps usually make nests in them and don't take kindly to having their home choped down, the chances of being stung around the house are slim

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## Thetyim

> They call them "dten" here and the black/purple wasp things "dor"


Well this is getting confusing now.
I got the wife to look up Hornet in the dictionary and it says 'dor'
She pronounces the smaller thingy ' dan"

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## RandomChances

> Well this is getting confusing now. I got the wife to look up Hornet in the dictionary and it says 'dor' She pronounces the smaller thingy ' dan"


 Thats why I put the pic's in I dont know what the definition of a hornet is or what one looks like. Anyway I just showed my wife the 2 pics and she reconed your was "dten" and mine was "dor"......mabye  :Smile:  just checked how "dten"  was spelt and you could easliy write "dtan: or "dten:

Btw tyim's looks exactly what he's talking about but mine is just the closest I could find

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## Skulldigger

Dten ...?

More Thai wasps:

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## Curious George

According to the 'wife', dtan=hornet and dtor=wasp (and who am I to argue, since her sister's name is Dtan?). While paperwasps could produce a nest looking like hillbilly's example, it is more likely for a hornet to complete a nest as shown. A paperwasp's cells are usually open to view, as opposed to the hornet's tiers of cells, comprising a ball shape with an entrance from the botom.

Paperwasp


Typical paperwasp nest


Thai mud dauber wasp


Asian hornet


It can be seen that the hornet's head, behind its eyes is larger than the wasp. Also, the wasp has a narrowed abdomen behind the thorax, compared to the hornet, plus it sports two pairs of membranous wings. Generally, the envenomation from a hornet is considered to be worse than that of a wasp.
I could experience an anaphylactic shock from a bee sting, so....  :gost:

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## Marmite the Dog

> Thai mud dauber wasp


I've got a few of those little houses in my new house, but I think they're deserted.

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## aging one

They are on holiday, they are planning to come back while you are back in Bangers, then they will have a party for you when you go back to the new pad next.

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## Marmite the Dog

That's awfully thoughful of them. I shall bring a can of bug spray as a gift.

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## RDN

This was on the back of my pick-up a few days ago:




About two inches from tip of one antenna to the other. I liked the black furry bits on the antennae.

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## big_cloud

Oh! coz I was poor in English
I translate WASP in White Anglo-Saxonian Protestant Ppl
Maybe they would bother you like hornets?
der
Lothar aus Lembeck  :Cool:

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## Curious George

RDN - I just *love* that photo!

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## RDN

> RDN - I just *love* that photo!


OK, here's another  :Smile:  :

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## Curious George

^ Thanks for that! The size comparison to the ant is just great.

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## RDN

> ^ Thanks for that! The size comparison to the ant is just great.


Well, the ants were quite small. Here's one with the tip of my door key showing to give a better perspective:

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## Curious George

^ Again, your photos are superior. Since my name is "Curious", I couldn't let this go by without finding an ID. Information on the Web is sparse, with the included picture the best I could find. Maybe you should sell yours.  :Smile: 

It's a longhorn beetle that has become a severe pest, infesting and killing young trees. The literature that I found said it was uncommon in Thailand though.  :Confused:  

*Cerambycidae Lamiinae Aristobia horridula*
__

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## Dougal

There are apparently lots of different varieties of this type of beetle.

I used to live in Camberley in the UK, home to much of the British army. It seems that the army brought one type of this beetle back with them from India and it is now fairly common in the houses in the area, thus all new timber bought in that area needs to be treated specifically for it.

A bit of trivia.

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## RDN

> There are apparently lots of different varieties of this type of beetle.
> 
> I used to live in Camberley in the UK, home to much of the British army. It seems that the army brought one type of this beetle back with them from India and it is now fairly common in the houses in the area, thus all new timber bought in that area needs to be treated specifically for it.
> 
> A bit of trivia.


I like trivia... I used to live in Camberley! Do you know Peter Gammon's shop on the hump in the A30 (Osnaburgh Hill), just before the traffic lights with the Frimley Road on the left. I lived in the flat above that shop for a year. And I remember the story about the beetle in the wood. Funny I should have one in my back garden 23 years and 6,000 miles later.  :Very Happy:  

More trivia... it also probably explains why the guy who came to give me a quote for cutting my grass, trimming the trees and generally taking care of the garden said he would also spray the trees to get rid of the bugs. Maybe he was talking about this bug? Maybe I should get him back, but I thought 1,000 baht a month was a bit steep!

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## Dougal

> Do you know Peter Gammon's shop on the hump in the A30 (Osnaburgh Hill), just before the traffic lights with the Frimley Road on the left.


I remember the name but I don't think I can picture the shop. I had a house in Branksome HIll Rd in College Town behind the new Tesco. I guess I was living there the same time as yourself. All changed now, but the elephant is still there.

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## RDN

> Originally Posted by RDN
> 
> Do you know Peter Gammon's shop on the hump in the A30 (Osnaburgh Hill), just before the traffic lights with the Frimley Road on the left.
> 
> 
> I remember the name but I don't think I can picture the shop. I had a house in Branksome HIll Rd in College Town behind the new Tesco. I guess I was living there the same time as yourself. All changed now, but the elephant is still there.


Yes, I know the white elephant, but forget what is was there for. If you head up the hill towards the traffic lights with the Frimley road, go over the lights there's a row of shops on the right and there's a foot bridge over the road there, too. Peter Gammon's shop sold all sorts of weird stuff - mixture of hardware, stationery, sweet shop, supermarket, basically anything that fell off a lorry.

It's a small world.  :Smile:

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## HermantheGerman

You guys should try selling some of your pics. Those creatures would make a great horror movie, especially's RD.

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## RDN

> You guys should try selling some of your pics. Those creatures would make a great horror movie, especially's RD.


I went looking for more bugs on the trees in the garden, and found a couple of large holes bored into one of the trees. Here's one:




And then I had a look at a coconut tree and got a bit of a shock when I came across this:




And there was another one on the other side of the tree:



It's clearly not the longhorn beetle, but of similar size and with rather large claws at the front! Not sure I want to go looking for the live ones!

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## hillbilly

Excellent shots RDN. How are you doing that? :Confused:  

 My camera (Nikon Cool Pix 5900) ain't up to the task.

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## Curious George

^ I agree that I cannot achieve a closeup as shown, and I recently bought a new camera specifically to catalogue our orchids with closups. Wanting to give RDN a chance to respond, I'll just say that camera type, with more details than you may want to know, are stuffed into the image file with a header called EXIF. Most any photographic software will allow you to see this information stored in the file. Here's a piece of the info from RDN's last photo:

~
XResolution - 180
YResolution - 180
ResolutionUnit - Inch
DateTime - 2006 :19 11 :16
YCbCrPositioning - Centered
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/320 seconds
FNumber - 2.80
ExifVersion - 0220
DateTimeOriginal - 2006 :19 11 :16
DateTimeDigitized - 2006 :19 11 :16
~

Now I'm going to look up the specs on RDN's camera and see where I missed the mark when purchasing mine. :Sad:

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## Marmite the Dog

> Excellent shots RDN. How are you doing that? 
> 
>  My camera (Nikon Cool Pix 5900) ain't up to the task.


You need to use the macro function. There should be a setting with a picture of a tulip somewhere.

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## RDN

> Excellent shots RDN. How are you doing that? 
> 
>  My camera (Nikon Cool Pix 5900) ain't up to the task.


I didn't realise what my camera could do when I bought it. In fact, I only got it because a Thai ex-g/f had one and I was impressed by the size and weight, and that it took good quality movies.

So the camera I'm now using is a Canon IXUS 30. It's not that expensive and certainly not the top of the range. But it does have a close-up facility which I only discovered recently - having decided to "read the effing manual" when I was trying to work out what all the buttons were for!

The camera I used to use is a Nikon Coolpix 775 which does take good pictures but it is so damn big!! (and heavy). Both cameras have the same numbers written on the lenses: 5.8-17.4mm 1:2.8-4.9, but the Canon has 3.2 megapixels, whereas the Nikon is half that (I think - can't remember, and it's not written on it). I keep the Nikon as a "backup".

As MarmiteTD says, the close-up ("macro") function is switched on by pressing a button with a flower (tulip?) icon on it.

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## RDN

> ^ I agree that I cannot achieve a closeup as shown, and I recently bought a new camera specifically to catalogue our orchids with closups. Wanting to give RDN a chance to respond, I'll just say that camera type, with more details than you may want to know, are stuffed into the image file with a header called EXIF. Most any photographic software will allow you to see this information stored in the file. Here's a piece of the info from RDN's last photo:
> 
> ~
> XResolution - 180
> YResolution - 180
> ResolutionUnit - Inch
> DateTime - 2006 :19 11 :16
> YCbCrPositioning - Centered
> ExifOffset - 196
> ...


I just remembered I have a Firefox extension called FxIF installed - it adds the Exif data to image properties. So I just right clicked on one of my pictures above and then clicked on "Properties", and this is what I got:



It correctly says the camera make and model, and exactly when I took the picture plus a lot more. Blimey!

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## dirtydog

you can also check by downloading the pic and going to acdsee and check all the info in there, probably photoshop aswell.

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## Curious George

> Now I'm going to look up the specs on RDN's camera and see where I missed the mark when purchasing mine.


I see why RDN can get such great shots - In Macro mode, his camera focuses down to just over one inch. My rather expensive 8 megapixal camera has 2 Macro modes, but still can only focus down to a little less than eight inches. :Sad:  To get the same shot as RDN, I've got to take a very high resolution pic, and then crop it. I bought my camera due to its great specs, but wanting to take good close-ups, I may have done better with one like RDNs.

BTW RDN, since you've got a good 'bug' camera, please entertain us with more pics of those exotic Thai insects. They don't all have to be alive, since I also like the Cicada shells you just posted. Is this the year of the Cicada in Thailand?

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## Marmite the Dog

> Is this the year of the Cicada in Thailand?


Nope. They have the same year, every year in Thailand. The Year of the Monkey.

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## Dougal

> BTW RDN, since you've got a good 'bug' camera, please entertain us with more pics of those exotic Thai insects.


For the enthusiastic; I have seen a programme on TV where the they set up a white cloth stretched between some bamboo poles at night and then shone a bright light onto one side of the sheet. The bugs are attracted tot he light and fly onto the sheet where you can photograph them.

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## friscofrankie

Yeah, we got some of them at my house.  We call 'em window screens.  :Very Happy:

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## RDN

> ...BTW RDN, since you've got a good 'bug' camera, please entertain us with more pics of those exotic Thai insects. They don't all have to be alive, since I also like the Cicada shells you just posted. Is this the year of the Cicada in Thailand?


Ah! THAT's what they're called - Cicada. My g/f calls them "Jagga-jun" but I haven't looked for the Thai name, so doubt if my transliteration is correct. They're the bugs that make that awful racket at dusk - and basically any other time if encouraged by the appropriate noise, like someone using a rotary grass-cutter! They're also the big, fat, juicy bugs you can find on sale roasted or barbecued at food stalls.  

Well, today I decided to take some more pics of the old Cicada skin if it was still there - we had heavy rain last night - and wanted to try out the "Digital Macro" mode of the camera. MarmiteTD talked about "Macro" so I read the manual some more and found out there was another mode - Digital Macro - which was more close-up than "close-up"!

So I went back to the tree and surprise! surprise! There was yet another shell next to one that I photographed yesterday!:



So maybe I should have a look again tonight - I might catch one "at it", discarding his old skin.

So here's my "Digital Macro" shot of the head of the Cicada shell:



I just checked the camera receipt - 11,900 baht from "Big Camera" in "Big C" opposite Central World Plaza, Bangkok. Worth every satang!  :Smile:

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## hillbilly

Truly amazing shots. I guess that I do have to drag out the instruction book.  :Smile:

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## Sir Burr

The interesting thing about cicadas, is that they are all 17 years old. For most of their life, they live underground feeding off sap that they get from tree roots. Once they get to seventeen years old, they are sexually mature. They all start heading towards the trunk of the tree that's been feeding them and emerge from the earth. They all climb up the trunk where they extend their wings and start that racket they make to try and attract a mate. They live for about three months after they have emerged from the soil, then die.

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## Curious George

> Nope. They have the same year, every year in Thailand. The Year of the Monkey.


Ahh, now I understand that Thailand has many different species of Cicada - Thanks for that! Some are an annual species, while others are the synchronized periodical species. I guess if some of the synchronized emerge during the Year of the Monkey, they would have a twelve year cycle. Being raised in North Central US, we had a seventeen year cycle species. Maybe it was too cold for them to come out more often. :Very Happy:

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## Marmite the Dog

Good stuff, RDN.  :35:

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## RDN

> The interesting thing about cicadas, is that they are all 17 years old. For most of their life, they live underground feeding off sap that they get from tree roots. Once they get to seventeen years old, they are sexually mature. They all start heading towards the trunk of the tree that's been feeding them and emerge from the earth. They all climb up the trunk where they extend their wings and start that racket they make to try and attract a mate. They live for about three months after they have emerged from the soil, then die.


Hi SB, do you know if they are responsible for all the holes in the tree trunks? I noticed more holes and more cicada shells in other trees today:

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## Propagator

Amazing pictures - has made me get out the instruction manuel for my camera.     Always wondered what that tulip thing was for!!!

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## LesBonsTemps

I'm a newbie, grew up and live here in the southeastern U.S. -- this has been an interesting thread.

We have both types of cicadas.  Two years ago, the 17 year cycle hatched and I've never heard such noise!!  On a summer night, we leave the French doors open to the deck and enjoy the softer sound of the other types while watching the fireflies.  I didn't notice fireflies in Thailand -- do they exist?

And no, the cicadas aren't the cause of the holes in the trees -- they burrow in the ground.  More likely, the trees are being bored by a type of beetle.  We have pine beetles that bore and very badly damage and weaken the trees -- usually not a problem until we get a high wind, and then the trunk snaps at the weakened spot.

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## friscofrankie

We've got fire flies occasionally here Forget the name somekinda daow  They kind have a low freq flash as they zip around the fields outside my windows and around the stream.  They appear to like humid weather best.  it's when I notice them.  Unlike The fireflies in the states kind of like watchin stars twinkle just above the grass.  Could swear there are multiple colors but when I try to catch one non white one I can't...  

Lived in the mid west in the US. for about 4 years, used to catch 'em smush 'em and use the tails for glow-in-the-dark war paint.

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## Sir Burr

As Gulfcoast says, the cicadas are not responsible for the holes.
The casings you are finding is when the cicada has crawled up the trunk after emerging from the ground (I think) and then shed their casing and fly away.
Yes, lots of fire-flies, especially after the rain.

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## RDN

> ...And no, the cicadas aren't the cause of the holes in the trees -- they burrow in the ground.  More likely, the trees are being bored by a type of beetle.  We have pine beetles that bore and very badly damage and weaken the trees -- usually *not a problem until we get a high wind, and then the trunk snaps at the weakened spot*.


Er... like this?




Two or three branches snapped two nights ago. At least the main trunk is OK, for now. Maybe I should get the bug-sprayer in to save the others!

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## LesBonsTemps

Uh....yeah.

Those are, at least, shorter trees.  The problem with the Southern pines is that they are 80+ feet tall and fall onto the roof.  If the fall breaks the roof supports, it's new roof time and you're hoping you kept a low deductible on the the homeowners insurance.

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## RDN

> ...So maybe I should have a look again tonight - I might catch one "at it", discarding his old skin...


Tonight I went outside and noticed a cicada on top of its old skin. Here are some pics:

This was one of the first I took - notice the wings are in-line:



I went back about 45 minutes later (after putting on a cap, long trousers and a long-sleeved shirt - the mozzies were biting well) and his wings had changed angle:



I'll start another thread later and post more pictures, including thumbnails to high res pictures for the enthusiasts.

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## hillbilly

Great shots! I have been trying to learn the close-up function of my camera, but not as easy as pressing a button and getting the photos RDN gets.

More, please! :Smile:

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## Mr R Sole

Back to the original thread as I was looking for a picture of a 'Dtor' on the net which was very hard to find....still. 

I was stung by one of these buggers (sadly at my daughters funeral 3yrs back now, talk about adding to the pain..) 

The Thai's that were attending got all concerned that I was going to have a heart attack, I hurt like hell and got extremely hot and swollen..this lasted for about 5-7days and I still have the scar to prove it after it went yellow and infected regardless of any measures taken.. ...another sad point of reference...

Somtamslap also got stung on the neck and the bloody pharmacist lady told him to go to the hospital as he may die....bloody over reacting loonies this lot....how many people actually die from these things over here....this lot freak out to easily...

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## Gipsy

Is this the hornet? *Vespa affinis* ❘ Lesser banded hornet 



Photo by Jeff ❘ 







Some info ❘ Photo's of the nest  ❘ Untitled Document

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## jiltedjohn

We had I very big Dtor's nest in our garden a couple of years back, pretty dodgy with young kids around. I was willing to pay a couple of local lads to come and get rid of it, but they said they would do it for free and would be back later that night...!!!

They came back at 7pm and told us to turn off all the lights in the house, then proceeded to smoke out all the Dtor's from the nest. Unfortunately we forgot to tell our neighbors to turn off their lights as well....oops!  Lets just say they were not happy (two of them got stung).

Apparently the nest contained lots of Dtor 'larvae' which are considered an Issan delicacy and make a delicious 'Yam'. This is why they did it for free.

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## dirtydog

> Back to the original thread as I was looking for a picture of a 'Dtor' on the net which was very hard to find....still.


Here you go, *Thai bastard Hornets*.

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## Kwang

> Here you go, Thai bastard Hornets.


Here's an Asian Bastard Paper Wasp.



I had one sting me on the back of the head, just above the neck yesterday. It felt like someone had gave me a right hook. The pain lasted for  about 5 minutes, but I have been up all night with hot and cold sweats, sore throat and a repetitive cough. My eyeballs are burning now and it hurts to look left or right. the cough is relenting though. I have swelling where it stung me, it's poison sac no doubt.

I thought I might have the flu until reading this guys blog.

The Dropout Diaries - Mr Wasp You Shouldnt Have

Here's some pics of the bastards

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## expattaffy

the photo you have there is exactly the same as one on my farm. not knowing it was there i took a axe and started to lop off this branch on a tree, suddenly i was attacked by a swarm of these  and run like hell, had many stings in my scalp through my crew cut but let me say not to bad, after about three hours all the discomfort was gone, so not to serious.

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## lennyworthington

This is a Long-horned Beetle
Aristobia horridula


> This was on the back of my pick-up a few days ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About two inches from tip of one antenna to the other. I liked the black furry bits on the antennae.

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## DrAndy

very cute!

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## lennyworthington

:yerman: 


> This was on the back of my pick-up a few days ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About two inches from tip of one antenna to the other. I liked the black furry bits on the antennae.

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## palexxxx

^  Why would you repeat a post that you made eight months ago?

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## palexxxx

> Here's an Asian Bastard Paper Wasp.




I was at the gym today and one of these bastards kept buzzing me and when it disappeared under the seat of the stationary bike that I was on I thought it was time to leave.

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## DrAndy

do they sting or are those ones just a sham?

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## palexxxx

I don't know,  I didn't stay around long enough to find out.  Maybe he was trying to pay me back for stomping on his mate a couple of days ago.

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## DrAndy

ah, could probably smell the wasp sex hormones on your foot

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## palexxxx

> Originally Posted by Kwang
> 
> 
> Here's an Asian Bastard Paper Wasp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I went to the gym again today and saw a couple more wasps.  I wish they would use the screens on the windows.  Anyway,  they weren't like the one above after all.  They were more like this fella below.

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