#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thai Visas and Visa Runs >  >  legal help for overstay?

## jons557

I have overstayed (again :-( ), and I heard some talk of having an agent escort u on the visa run.  What does this mean?  Or can anyone give tips on a smooth visa renewal?  Legal help or otherwise?  I know that I should keep a cool head, dress nice and smile, etc...
I am on a tourist visa, and have overstayed the max= 20K Baht, but this will be my fourth (?) overstay, and I worry they Immigration officials will look at the past stamps and blacklist me or something.  Thank you!

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## Mid

> but this will be my fourth (?) overstay,


err , suspect you are best qualified to answer your own question as I doubt any here have greater experience .................

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## ralphlsasser

> Originally Posted by jons557
> 
> but this will be my fourth (?) overstay,
> 
> 
> err , suspect you are best qualified to answer your own question as I doubt any here have greater experience .................


Not now, but soon.

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## nevets

I think they will be pissed off by your habitual overstay and disrigard for the rules of Thailand and lock you up.

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## DrAndy

> but this will be my fourth (?) overstay, and I worry they Immigration officials will look at the past stamps and blacklist me or something





> I know that I should keep a cool head, dress nice and smile, etc...


don't forget to take your toothbrush and a clean pair of underoants

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## thehighlander959

Sent back to home country personna no grata. Four times is not an overstay, its a blatant disregard of their (Royal Thai Immigration) rules and regulations.

I am not sure what they will or can do, but dont expect to be welcomed as a long lost friend.... Because you are not!!!!

What would happen in your country of origin????

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## importford

Bangkok Hilton..... :mid:  :mid:

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## ralphlsasser

What did they do when you overstayed before?

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## jons557

^  Ralplasser:  first two OS were in '08 and '09 respectivley at the airport- signed and paid upon exit no problem.  Last year I went to Mukdahan w/ my Thai girlfriend and our baby daughter.  I think having them helped alot- the officers talked w/ my girlfriend (Isaan) more that me.  I think she persuaded them to let me pay and go.  Officers scolded me, blah blah blah, and I just smiled and apoligized and fanned out 20K baht on the counter, then they cleared us.  If I didn't have my two girls w/ me I think it would have gone the other way.  I have contacted some law firms that deal w/ overstays and say they "guarantee" clearance, and even blacklisting in certain cases.  I'll keep you updated...

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## BaitongBoy

^They guarantee blacklisting?...wtf?...

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## DrAndy

^ duh!

if you read it with a little intelligence, you can understand he means that they can get you cleared even if blacklisted

not everybody has such a perfect grasp of English as yourself

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## Neverna

jons557, I'm curious as to why you overstayed so much and so many times. Why? 
Surely it would have been cheaper to get a flight out and return and do it all legally.

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## jons557

^  Different circumstances each time.  There were legal issues back home regarding the $$ I received every two weeks- lawyers squabbled over details, etc.  That left me w/o funds to make the trips first two times.  Last year my daughter's birth included some unforeseen complications, so I stayed put to see her arrive safe.  
I just spoke w/ a lawyer and he tells me no problem for a clear visa- and it's their towncar that takes me to the border and back in 1 day, and I can get 1 year because I am the father to a Thai/Falang baby!  Still awaiting response re: costs.  Will update...

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## jons557

Copied and pasted from my email:

"It's not a problem. 
I need a copy of your passport, I will than make an appointment with the officer at Aryanaprathet border. We will get you done at the border in an hour than we head back to bangkok. We clear overstays almost every week. 
If you want to get long term visa, we got to clear overstay on the weekday in the morning. As you would get 15 days at the border which we will convert into NON O and we will get you 15 months stay on the basis of supporting thai child. 
The cost is:
20,000 fine
5,000 to officer
5,000 service charges (includes 15 days visa and combodian visa) 

Regards,"

Whaddya think?

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## BaitongBoy

> you can understand he means that they can get you cleared even if blacklisted


Sure I can...Just set out the bait for a sucker like you to chomp on...

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## Davis Knowlton

^^If they can actually handle it as they say, and there are no hidden costs, sounds fair price to me.

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## DrAndy

> ^They guarantee blacklisting?...wtf?...





> Sure I can...Just set out the bait for a sucker like you to chomp on...


liar

you have demonstrated again that you cannot admit when you make a mistake

never mind

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## DrAndy

> If they can actually handle it as they say, and there are no hidden costs, sounds fair price to me.


indeed, seems cheap at that price

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## Mr Lick

> As you would get 15 days at the border which we will convert into NON O and we will get you 15 months stay on the basis of supporting thai child.


Is that legally possible?  :Smile:

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## dirtydog

Pretty sure the supporting a Thai child went out the window a year or so ago.

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## Mr Lick

[quote=jons557;2046437]Copied and pasted from my email:

"It's not a problem. 
I need a copy of your passport, I will than make an appointment with the officer at Aryanaprathet border. We will get you done at the border in an hour than we head back to bangkok. We clear overstays almost every week. 
If you want to get long term visa, we got to clear overstay on the weekday in the morning. As you would get 15 days at the border which we will convert into NON O and we will get you 15 months stay on the basis of supporting thai child. 
The cost is:
20,000 fine
5,000 to officer
5,000 service charges (includes 15 days visa and combodian visa) 

Regards,"

*Whaddya think?[/*quote]


I'd probably prefer a response from a few more lawyers. If you take the first as a given and things get a wee bit more complicated it will likely cost you more, maybe much more, than the original quote and of course if you don't pay at the border, you may not get a re-entry.

Trust nobody, especially lawyers.  :Smile:

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## Mid

when ................




> ..............things get a wee bit more complicated it will likely cost you more, maybe much more, than the original quote and of course if you don't pay at the border, you may not get a re-entry.  Trust nobody, especially lawyers.

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## superman

> Pretty sure the supporting a Thai child went out the window a year or so ago.


More like 3 years ago. It was only given for a 12 months stay and you didn't have to show money in a Thai bank account. Although Korat immigration didn't go by that.

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## Smug Farang Bore

Why do you do it?

Get the relivent visa.

You get in to a prob when on overstay your up shit creak..



I'm writing this in the airport in cambo as my visa was up.

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## BaitongBoy

^So what happened?

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## crocodilexp

> Get the relivent visa. You get in to a prob when on overstay your up shit creak..


They don't issue Relivent Visas anymore... Also, I've never heard a shit creak, it's usually mushy and rather silent.

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## sunsetter

> we will convert into NON O


cant get a non o at any border, has to be a consulate, or embassy

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## jons557

RalpLasser: I cannot PM you- it says I need 20 posts to begin PMing other members. U can email me no prob. jons557@gmail.com

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## Mr Earl

^ Keeps us apprised how it goes, you are the most experienced over stayer we have here. 
I overstayed once and landed in jail, a very long time ago. I intend never to do that again.

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## ralphlsasser

> ^ Keeps us apprised how it goes, you are the most experienced over stayer we have here. 
> I overstayed once and landed in jail, a very long time ago. I intend never to do that again.


How long did you overstay? Why did you have to go to jail? For how long?

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## Mr Earl

I was about four months over. I went to jail because I was with someone who got arrested for pot possesion. They took to court where I paid the fine. After which they locked me up since my cheap ass return ticket had expired. It took about three weeks to get an air ticket sent to the embassy. It was an interesting experience to say the least for a 22 year old.

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## alwarner

> Pretty sure the supporting a Thai child went out the window a year or so ago.


You can (or could last August) get a non imm O visa for visiting a family member.  No financial statements required, just birth certificate of child and covering letter from the Mother.

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## jons557

^Cheers to alwarner!  That's what I'm shooting for.  Only the birth cert. is required...
Still, I'm a little suspicious of the "promises" made by this lawyer.  I am awaiting other responses from similar lawyers.  I think this guy can do it, but it's more about him knowing the right people and the right amount of money- but that's cool by me!

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## Airportwo

Good luck with this, doubt they will throw you out of the country, you are too good a source of income for them!  :Smile:

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## 9999

> I doubt any here have greater experience


Well if we're tallying them up, I got about 6 overstays none longer than a few days.




> I think they will be pissed off by your habitual overstay and disrigard for the rules of Thailand and lock you up.


Bullshit, they'll smile and take your money and thank you for doing business.




> What would happen in your country of origin


Everyone would get all anal about pissy little issues that can be dealt with with a simple payment.

If you can't pay for an overstay different story but they pretty much invite it in the rules.

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## thehighlander959

^
Crap!!!!

Your just another d**k who blatantly flaunts the rules of your host country.... Dress it up anyway you want chief, its your disregard for the law that is the real issue.

I bet you would not do it in the Middle East.. *Or your ass it would be grass* and yes I mean your ass and a few other parts of you.

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## 9999

^ Dam right I would not go near the Middle East. It's the opinion of the Thais that matters not uppity falangs. They have no problem with blatantly flaunting the rules. Another d**k with no regard for the culture of their host country.

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## superman

> Another d**k with no regard for the culture of their host country.


Shouldn't that be 'laws' instead of 'culture' ? As for laws, there's an old saying 'laws are made to be broken'. If the Thais are so fcuking stupid to see that by breaking the law you can stay in Thailand cheaper than being legit, then that's all the reason to abuse the system.

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## kingwilly

There's a few dreamers here on this thread. Mistaking the rich thai's attitude to breaking laws and think that they can do same. Good luck.

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## thehighlander959

^
There are people on here using this thread to try and justify their overstays. Personally I have never overstayed, the main reason for that is I don,t need too, I leave and return to Thailand every month. So visa,s are not an issue for me either.

I am not stupid or dumb enough to believe that I can flaunt the laws of country I live in with impunity. One day you might even get an immigration official who will say fuck you farang.... that will be your last overstay and puts a big red stamp in your passport not to return to Thailand.

When I went out last month there was two Italians being escorted to the Gulf Air jet by immigration officials and security police, it didn,t look like they would be coming back here any time soon.

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## 9999

> One day you might even get an immigration official who will say fuck you farang.... that will be your last overstay and puts a big red stamp in your passport not to return to Thailand.


That will be the day I leave Thailand. Up to them if they want me here or not and on what terms. Prostitution is also 'illegal here'. Will you be hating on all the mongers now?

I do have a problem with the broke arse perma overstayers of which there are a fe here in Chiang Mai, and they certainly would be thrown behind bars if found out.

In my case, I leave every 15 days and cross the border. I've done this so many times I'm familiar and friendly with some of the officials on both sides.

Occasionally for whatever reason it's been a few days late, and they don't mind. I always say 'sorry' at the Thai side and they sya "mai pen rai". Every time. Never once a problem or stern word for overstaying. Just pay the fine. So on one hand I got a falang on his moral high horse about following Thai law to the letter, and on the other immigration officials I been getting perpetual 15 day stamps from for the past 3 years, who know my wife and play with my kid, telling me what I'm doing is fine.

So your argument here is pretty redundant highlander. I do like your posts generally but you need to pull your head out of your arse on this issue.

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## 9999

> Shouldn't that be 'laws' instead of 'culture' ?


Law is a cultural thing. It does not mean the same thing in Thailand or Asia in general as it does in the west. Thought this would have been obvious to those who have been here a while.

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## Ratchaburi

> ^
> There are people on here using this thread to try and justify their overstays. Personally I have never overstayed, the main reason for that is I don,t need too, I leave and return to Thailand every month. So visa,s are not an issue for me either.
> 
> I am not stupid or dumb enough to believe that I can flaunt the laws of country I live in with impunity. One day you might even get an immigration official who will say fuck you farang.... that will be your last overstay and puts a big red stamp in your passport not to return to Thailand.
> 
> When I went out last month there was two Italians being escorted to the Gulf Air jet by immigration officials and security police, it didn,t look like they would be coming back here any time soon.


 
Now here is a poster who know fu-k all about overstayed.
I have over stayed (1) 60 days went to Immigration to pay the fine.
They told me to pay at the boarder, I did.
(2) time was waiting  for paper work so that I could leave Thailand.
(3) my lawyer told me to overstayed, so I could change Work permit & change my visa & I did not have to leave Thailand.

So if you don't know, then keep your fingers of the key board.

 :cmn:

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## 9999

Gotta wonder how many of these mythical red 'do not return' stamps have ever been issued for overstays? and under what circumstances?

The only time you need to justify yourself is when a Thai in authority wants to see your passport. I've never had the need to justify myself, after multiple overstays, nor am I trying to do so in this thread. The OP asked a question and got a realistic answer along with a truck load of snobbery.

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## good2bhappy

> they'll smile and take your money and thank you for doing business.


likely as not

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## Patrick

There is a Thread on "another Board" started by someone who has extensive experience helping individuals at the Immigration Detention Centre and good contacts there and in related Government departments. The main point of the Thread concerns recent changes in the Deportation procedure however he notes that the Overstay situation is also being examined and blacklisting is being considered.

Personally I sincerely hope this happens - not for the occasional short overstay caused in genuine error but for the Serial overstayers like the OP; there should be no upper limit on the Overstay fine and deportation and blacklisting should be automatic for those repeat offenders who clearly have no regard for the laws of the Country they live in.

Patrick

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## 9999

I'd like to hear what Thai people actually have to say about this. Self righteous rhetoric from foreigners called Patrick holds absolutely no weight in this debate. My experience with Thais is that they generally dont give a fuck about non parasites. The way the system deals with over stays reflects this. Actual examples in this thread further illustrate. The OP was not asking people how a nation should change its ways to better itself.

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## thehighlander959

^
I am in agreement with what you say. 
There is no need for anyone to overstay with good forward planning all the information you need to not overstay is in your passport.

If your overstay is for family emergency ie hospital visit, wife or child hurt, yes maybe I can understand your visa run being delayed until the situation improves.
To say that you have overstayed 6-8 times for no real reason other than your own personal inconvenience doesn,t cut it. As stated above there should be no limit on the fine or punishment for people who are serial overstayers.

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## Patrick

> I'd like to hear what Thai people actually have to say about this. Self righteous rhetoric from foreigners called Patrick holds absolutely no weight in this debate. My experience with Thais is that they generally dont give a fuck about non parasites. The way the system deals with over stays reflects this. Actual examples in this thread further illustrate. The OP was not asking people how a nation should change its ways to better itself.


"Thai people" in general probably do NOT care about Overstayers - however their opinion on the subject does not matter at all.

It's the Immigration and Ministry Officials at all levels who will push for change. 

Airport Officers are confronted every day by serial Overstayers who clearly have no respect for the laws of Thailand - the Laws the Immigration Officer is called upon to enforce. Every day they encounter smug, arrogant Farang who have deliberately overstayed and simply arrive at the desk, toss down the fine and walk away laughing, only to return with impunity on a new Visa days later.

I am sure this situation is frustrating and unacceptable to them and their views are regularly being circulated upwards to Senior Officers and on to the relevant Ministry officials.

It is within the Immigration Officers / Ministry group, not the average Thai on the street, that change will be generated.

Patrick

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## 9999

So things are ok now for evil overstayers but we should be worried because Patrick perceives that immigration officials are irritated by overstayers and don't care about the revenue from fines. OK noted, will have to be more careful.

Is this thread about how Thailand deals with it's immigration policy, or opinions from westerners on how Thailand should be run?

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## 9999

> To say that you have overstayed 6-8 times for no real reason other than your own personal inconvenience doesn,t cut it.


Well has cut it for the Thais in authority I have dealt with. At least I now know the my behaviour with regards to overstaying is out of line with the moral values of TD posters highlander and patrick and how they think Thai laws should be written and enforced. Good oh.

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## Patrick

> and don't care about the revenue from fines.


You really don't follow very well do you?

The main point of my original Post was that the upper limit on the Overstay fine should be removed completely.

At the moment once an Overstay exceeds 40 days there is no additional penalty - i.e. no additional fine is payable - even if the Overstay extends to, say, 5 years.

This is a clear loss of very significant Revenue to the Government and thus should be one of the first things to be changed.

In addition I am pretty sure it would make a significant difference to the attitude of someone on a 5 year Overstay if he realised he was liable for a fine exceeding Baht 900,000.- if caught!

Patrick

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## Patrick

> Originally Posted by thehighlander959
> 
> To say that you have overstayed 6-8 times for no real reason other than your own personal inconvenience doesn,t cut it.
> 
> 
> Well has cut it for the Thais in authority I have dealt with. At least I now know the my behaviour with regards to overstaying is out of line with the moral values of TD posters highlander and patrick and how they think Thai laws should be written and enforced. Good oh.


*To date* there have been no serious repercussion for you - no one is arguing that.

The POINT is that it is already being noticed by Immigration that more and more people are taking advantage, ignoring Thai Law, because there is no significant penalty for *not* following the law. Changes are being discussed as pointed out in the Thread on the other Board.

And yes, it cannot happen soon enough for me.

Patrick

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## 9999

Thanks for your thoughts Patrick. I'm sure the immigration dept. would be chuffed to hear your views.

Back to reality...any actual examples of problems for over stays? Any sights of the elusive 'red stamp'? Any real sign the government is going to change its ways?

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## Sailing into trouble

> erial Overstayers who clearly have no respect for the laws of Thailand - the Laws the Immigration Officer is called upon to enforce. Every day they encounter smug, arrogant Farang who have deliberately overstayed and simply arrive at the desk, toss down the fine and walk away laughing, only to return with impunity on a new Visa days later.


So you pay for a visa that gives you the privilege of spending money in Thailand. Then you are told that if you want to extend your stay an extra  (4) you have to travel to the border and do the visa run. Sorry I paid my 2000bht fine at the airport and went home. Smug no, but a little peeved at the rules of the game. But then it is their game. It is a crap system, but what the hell it is apart of the Thai experience.

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## thehighlander959

^
You are missing the point!!! 
Its about the people who habitually overstay like the original poster on here. Thailand will be tightening up their laws concerning people entering and leaving the country, they have just had a wake up call with Iranians entering and causing explosions in Bangkok.

These people had real visas issued in their country of origin ie Iran. A couple of the Iranians questioned by the Police concerning this explosion were over stayers, therefore questions have been asked of Immigration by the Government.

Some thing has to give and it will be the fact that immigration will tighten their control over this one way or another

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## 9999

^ Well that is news to me. Actual example is appreciated as I don't read the 'other site'.

Still, I don't see why the hate.

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## Mid

9999 , best you pray you're *not* apprehended on your way to the border ,

likely you will find a very different story awaiting you .......................

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## thehighlander959

^
There is no hate as you put it... The government here in Thailand is asking questions of the Immigration authorities. 
A couple of Iranians who were in contact with the Sukumvit bombers were over stayers. 
What the government is asking is how do we prevent these over stays?? How do we make it viable for us not to let them over stay. What punishment or penalty will stop them over staying.
Do you understand the point I am trying to make???

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## nevets

If it was just a case of paying the 20000 then that would be OK but that little part about a posible stay in the klinck bothers me .

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## thehighlander959

^
Well done Nevets one of the points I am trying to make. They have already looked at Detention Centres for detaining over stays as per the UK and France. Their problem with this is the cost to the Thai tax payer.I am not saying its a no-go, but I would not rule it out either.

If you could just pay a back hander then everything would be fine, ASEAN are also looking at how easy it is to enter and exit Thailand with minimum restrictions. Remember they have reciprocal arrangements with some other ASEAN member states.
As always with Thailand its about the money!!!

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## 9999

Yes there may well have been a point somewhere in here buried in all the crap about how people think Thailand should be ran more like their home countries.

Now some raghead comes along and ruins it for everyone. Do we really want the security measures the US has taken everywhere?

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## thehighlander959

Its not about wanting the US so called security measures!!! They(Thailand) now see it as making the country safer for all personnel visiting or as tourists.

Just bear in mind that when the push comes to the shove you are just another foreigner in Thailand you get no special dispensation from Arabs, Indians, South Americans or any other nationality. Immigration are being pressured from all sides to develop a workable system to prevent over staying in the Kingdom.

Now they could go to the draconian over reactive system of the US where everyone is a suspect on entry. Personally I don,t think they will go that far, however I expect to see some form of serious punishment for overstaying. Detention centres would really set the cat among the pigeons, I don,t think they would go this route either because of Loss of Revenue.
The favourite for me is to remove the cap at 20,000 bht and make the daily overstay a multiplication of the numbers of days you have overstayed times 500bht. 
Its a deterrent for some but maybe not for all ie 300 days overstay = 150,000 baht. They even might go to the longer you overstay the daily rate goes up.
They have a lot of choices to make...

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## DrAndy

The argument so far seems to be missing one point most of the time

OK, if you overstay and get to the border you can pay the fine, no real problem there

BUT if you get caught not exiting Thailand, you will be jailed and brought before a court (unless the catcher is corrupt, you may be able to pay your way out)

do you want to risk jail?

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## 9999

> BUT if you get caught not exiting Thailand, you will be jailed and brought before a court


Again, we hear this all the time, but has it ever actually happened? We know of actual instances where people have fessed up about being overstayed and told to go to the border and pay the fine.

Personally,m I've had a police office look at my passport and see 2 days overstay, I was on the way to the border and he was fine with that.

I think hell will freeze over before the Thai authorities start dragging tourists before the court for overstaying a few days. Has it ever actually happened??

Almost as unlikely they do anything about the chronic overstayers a few years over without a pot to piss in.

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## Mr Earl

> Again, we hear this all the time, but has it ever actually happened?


Yes, it happened to me many years ago.

About 5-6 years ago they tried a crack and nabbed a busload of visa runners going from Phuket to Ranong. Several of the visa runners were a couple of days overstay. They got hauled up to Bangkok and thrown in immigration detention. It turned out to be a big PR mistake to toss all those folks in for such small overstays. They don't do that anymore.

They generally don't go hunting for overstayers but if they happen upon you away from a border crossing, you will very likely be detained.

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