#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > Health, Fitness and Hospitals in Thailand >  >  When should you pierce a baby's ears ?

## kingwilly

Interesting article, piercing babies ears is a cultural thing here in Indo, I think also in Thailand, would you do it ?

Confessions of a Bad Mother

In the last two weeks I've been called self-satisfied, low-class, controlling, shallow, sexist, smug, priggish, crazed, repulsive, creepy, trashy, frivolous, provincial, disgusting, and just plain horrible. My crime? I pierced my six-month-old daughter's ears at the request of my Nicaraguan husband, an experience I wrote about for the New York Times' "Townies" column.

It was fun to write the essay. But more than that, it was a real eye-opener to read the 181 comments that have been posted since the piece went up on March 15. I learned so many things from the people who wrote in -- for example, that keloid scars may be less likely to form on baby skin than on adult ears during piercing. Also, that the gold you can buy in the U.S. is junk compared to the good 22 karat stuff that is the norm in India.

But the most surprising thing I realized was how apparently trivial things function as cultural flashpoints, bringing up race and class prejudices that most of us are, perhaps, likely to keep buried when discussing more obvious hot-button issues.

Before moving to Miami Beach almost two years ago, I lived in New York, where fashion scrutiny and over thinking everything are as commonplace as earrings on baby girls are in Miami. So I expected that, upon learning that I'd taken my daughter to the pediatrician to get her ears pierced, a few holier-than-thou types would be outraged. I anticipated the "It's her body, wait until she asks for earrings before slapping them on her" argument -- it was one I'd made myself before deciding that it just wasn't a big deal, given that if Amalía grows up and doesn't want earrings, she can let the holes close up. If anyone ever noticed the two little scars that resulted, she could explain that she was Greekaraguan, and that in Nicaragua, they pierce baby girl's ears. It would be a reminder of her heritage, I thought, one she could flaunt or ignore.

I even anticipated the melodramatic comparisons with female genital mutilation, the old "lots of atrocities are cultural norms" argument. But if a person can't see the difference between permanent alteration of an infant's genitals, which can result in lifelong pain, and pierced ears, which most women voluntarily undergo at some point, then clearly I was not going to change his or her mind. (Oddly enough, only one comment mentioned circumcision of boys as a parallel to pierced ears of girls. I guess that's because circumcision -- which I don't have an opinion on yet -- is our own cultural norm in the U.S.)

What shocked, and ultimately amused me was the reaction of multiple readers who saw earrings as an issue of class, not of culture. "I have never seen an infant born to middle or upper class parents who had her ears pierced," wrote Taylor from Boston (really? "Taylor from Boston"? I mean, it would have been slightly less stereotypical if the signature had read "Thurston Howell III of Kennebunkport" or "Waspy McWasperson of White Haven").

What amused me a whole lot less were the few openly racist and vaguely threatening comments, like this gem:

There is a clear geographical line separating us from Latin America. That line divides us culturally, too. We don't eat horse meat, don't conduct cocks and dogs fights and don't pierce babies' ears. If you cannot learn to appreciate the beauty of a baby girl with natural, pierce-less ears, than maybe you don't belong in our culture.
Thank you, sir, for appointing yourself the voice of Anglo America. Where do I go to secede?

Just as creepy as the cockfight guy were the handful of people who equated earrings with sexuality (as opposed to gender), asking when I was going to get Amalía a boob job and "stripper heels." This just struck me as a wildly strange link to make -- how many of us have grandmothers who wear earrings? And do those venerable ladies wear stripper heels and have boob jobs? (Although if your grandma happens to wear stripper heels, let me be the first to say, kudos, madam!)

The bottom line is, we all carry around associations -- some of them toxic -- with certain articles of clothing. This point was driven home much more tragically with Geraldo Rivera's "hoodie defense" of George Zimmerman, who shot the unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin because he found his appearance threatening. Rivera tweeted, "His hoodie killed Trayvon Martin as surely as George Zimmerman."

I'm not trying to compare Earringgate to the Trayvon Martin situation -- one's a tempest in a teapot and the other is a tragedy (it would be a bit like comparing pierced ears to female genital mutilation). I'm just pointing out that I now see I was naive to be shocked that people have such strong visceral associations with what we wear (and, apparently, what we eat. I've never eaten horse meat but I'm a little unclear as to what makes it that much grosser than eating cow meat. And I say that as a non-vegetarian. But that's another post).

The other shocker in all 181 comments I received? Not one of them chastised my husband for piercing Amalía's ears, even though it was his desire that led us to do so. Instead, all these self-proclaimed feminists did what people have from time immemorial: blamed the mama. And I'm just as guilty as all the rest of them -- I didn't even notice the fact that not one reader singled out my husband until he pointed it out himself.

As the guilty mama in question, I can say that I had mixed feelings while bringing Amalía to the doctor for her "beauty visit." But all the criticism I've gotten since made me glad that we pierced her's ears.

The last comment in response to "Baby's First Bling" is one of the most damning. "Custom will justify any atrocity," writes Chandler. "Way to put a girl in her place and show her what's really important in life, right from the very beginning."

I have two thoughts in response to Chandler (another name that I would never let myself use if I were writing a novel with a judgey honky character, because it would be too cliché). The first is if she or he really considers ear-piercing "an atrocity," I hope Amalía will live a life that is just as trauma-free as Chandler's.

As for the second, I pierced Amalía's ears for no other reason than because I thought it would make lots of people I love happy, including her someday. But now I hope that Chandler's right, that having pierced ears may in fact help show her what's really important in life, right from the very beginning: Family. Tradition. Diversity. And, sandwiched between two blinged-out earlobes, an open mind.

Eleni Gage: Confessions of a Bad Mother

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## Davis Knowlton

Filipinos pierce the ears of baby girls within a month or two of birth. My daughter was no different.

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## Kwang

Stupid I think piercing babies ears, just because Mom or Dads like the aesthetics

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## Kwang

My brother pulled some bird in a nightclub many moons back when we were teens, the girl said she had to show him something, then removed her clip on earrings and revealed 2 rotted away ear lobes. He was off like a shot. I think it was down to her wearing cheap metal ones, or she was sensitive to silver or gold 
No shit

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## Damman

I have three girls, the first born was 12 months old when her Mother decided to stick pins through the childs ears, I was livid. With the second born, the Mother did not incur my wrath and let the child decide, she had hers done as a 12th birthday treat. The 3rd born girl is now 16 and had them done a month ago of her own free choice. 

I believe in free choice and do not adhere to tradition as such, especially when it involves sticking bits of shiny metal in my kids.

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## Kwang

> If the missus wanted us to, then yes


Grow a set, you will be sporting a Prince Albert next, while doing the washing, ironing,cleaning, and pushing the pram round the supermarket

You've already gone from king Willy to Sir Willy, You need to change that again to 
 Willy or Pussy

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## Kurgen

> I believe in free choice and do not adhere to tradition as such, especially when it involves sticking bits of shiny metal in my kids.


Well said.

My ex in the UK pierced our daughters ears when she was about 5 years old, I was mighty pissed.

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## blue

Widespread female genital mutilation in  Indonesia is more of a problem than girls having thier ears pierced

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## Ceburat1

To have her ears pierced or not should be her decision when she becomes an adult.  You teach her to respect her body why not you respect it too?

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## buriramboy

I had my daughters ears pierced when she was about 1 year old (might have even been a bit younger, can't remember exactly, was 8 years ago), no harm in it that i can see.

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## Kwang

My Thai Missus cut all my babies hair off when she was maybe a month old, even though I told her not to. Apparently it's good luck in thailand. Does anyone know anything about that ?

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## nidhogg

I was interested to see that the piercing in the OP was done by a paediatrician.  Really can't see how a professional doctor could inflict pain on a child for purely parental vanity.  Maybe "First do no harm" means something different in America.

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## kingwilly

> You've already gone from king Willy to Sir Willy, You need to change that again to 
> Willy or Pussy


Says that poster who 'joined' last month.




> My Thai Missus cut all my babies hair off when she was maybe a month old, even though I told her not to. Apparently it's good luck in thailand. Does anyone know anything about that ?


They do it in Indonesia also in the mistaken belief that the hair grows back stronger and thicker.

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## Davis Knowlton

> I was interested to see that the piercing in the OP was done by a paediatrician.  Really can't see how a professional doctor could inflict pain on a child for purely parental vanity.  Maybe "First do no harm" means something different in America.



The doctor who circumcised my son, at less than a week old, said that babies don't yet have fully developed nerve endings, and don't feel a thing. My son never made a sound, and suffered no pain or other problems post-op. I presume that is even more true for earlobes; my daughter never made a sound either, and had no infection or other issues. This is not in my book a reason to do it but, if my daughter's ears weren't pierced, she would be the only girl in her class whose ears weren't.

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## DrAndy

> Widespread female genital mutilation in Indonesia is more of a problem than girls having thier ears pierced


 
the girls I came across only had their lips clipped, a bit like male circumcision

so no problem there

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## Rural Surin

> Stupid I think piercing babies ears, just because Mom or Dads like the aesthetics


In many instances, it's culturally or spiritually related...

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## DrAndy

I suppose a child having his/her ears pierced doesn't do much harm until they get accidentally torn out during some game

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## Davis Knowlton

> I suppose a child having his/her ears pierced doesn't do much harm until they get accidentally torn out during some game


My daughter only wears very small studs, and removes even those for Karate.

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## superman

> Originally Posted by Kwang
> 
> My Thai Missus cut all my babies hair off when she was maybe a month old, even though I told her not to. Apparently it's good luck in thailand. Does anyone know anything about that ?
> 
> 
> They do it in Indonesia also in the mistaken belief that the hair grows back stronger and thicker.


Also known to cut the eyelashes too. The dumb fcukers.

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## robtherich

Many moons ago I lay in a hut in a village some 200 km from Nyala, Sudan, whilst the Aunties and other female relatives performed female clitorectamies on a couple of young girls.

I didn't sleep much.

There is no justification, in any way, shape or form for the mutilation of children's bodies.

None whatsoever.

IMHO no religous, cultural, fashion or fad can justify such crime.

It is/should be a crime. 

It is child abuse in its' purest sense.

No logical argument justifies such actions.

End of rant.

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## DrAndy

parents can be dumb too!

and well done Davis, for taking care

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## kingwilly

> Many moons ago I lay in a hut in a village some 200 km from Nyala, Sudan, whilst the Aunties and other female relatives performed female clitorectamies on a couple of young girls.
> 
> I didn't sleep much.
> 
> There is no justification, in any way, shape or form for the mutilation of children's bodies.
> 
> None whatsoever.
> 
> IMHO no religous, cultural, fashion or fad can justify such crime.
> ...


FGM is _slightly_ different to pierced ears.

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## robtherich

> FGM is slightly different to pierced ears.


Mutilation is mutilation and, in my view, wrong.

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## DrAndy

^ yes, it is all mutilation

but there degrees of everything

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## robtherich

> but there degrees of everything


even in the physical mutilation of children? 

or

even in the physical abuse of children?

Sorry, mate. I don't buy it.

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## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> but there degrees of everything
> 
> 
> even in the physical mutilation of children? 
> 
> or
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input. I owe you 3 reds. Am out of ammo at the moment, but will catch you later. One for my mutilated daughter who had a doctor pierce her ears, one for my mutilated son who had a doctor perform a circumcision, and one for sitting there just watching little African girls get tortured. I can see you're going to be a huge addition around here.

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## robtherich

> I owe you 3 reds.


In my view you owe yourself the reds, mate. How can you possibly justify any of the things you've mentioned.

Never mind. I'd be pretty ashamed of myself too if I'd done such things to my kids.

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## Davis Knowlton

^Fuck you, you asshole.

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## robtherich

> ^Fuck you, you asshole.


Thanks. You seem to be externalizing your guilt. That's good.

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## natalie8

> I was interested to see that the piercing in the OP was done by a paediatrician. Really can't see how a professional doctor could inflict pain on a child for purely parental vanity. Maybe "First do no harm" means something different in America.


That's a strange comment to make. People can get piercings in beauty salons, jewelers and tattoo places. Doctors' offices have strict regulations which govern cleanliness, sterilization of intruments, protocol, etc, etc.

Plus, the patient would be able to see the doctor for updates or if they have any irritation or infection from the piercings and the doctor could give them qualified advice and medications if needed.

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## kingwilly

American Paediatrics Association recommends that if anyone does it, it should be a Dr.


I think WHO does too. (though they suggest a health worker or midwife is best placed to do it)

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## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> but there degrees of everything
> 
> 
> even in the physical mutilation of children? 
> 
> or
> 
> ...


 
I wasn't selling, I was merely saying that there are degrees

unless you equate genital mutilation with ear mutilation

a bit like saying all violence is the same then GBH=a slap

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## Kwang

> GBH=a slap


It can do, a slap can also be worse than GBH

Slap kills man after Argument - Naijapals

Son's slap kills woman - Times Of India


Fuck......... I feel like Nidhogg  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

^ yes, you do sound like an old woman!

anyway

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> I was interested to see that the piercing in the OP was done by a paediatrician. Really can't see how a professional doctor could inflict pain on a child for purely parental vanity. Maybe "First do no harm" means something different in America.
> 
> 
> That's a strange comment to make. People can get piercings in beauty salons, jewelers and tattoo places. Doctors' offices have strict regulations which govern cleanliness, sterilization of intruments, protocol, etc, etc.
> 
> Plus, the patient would be able to see the doctor for updates or if they have any irritation or infection from the piercings and the doctor could give them qualified advice and medications if needed.


The point I am making is this is not a medical procedure - its a vanity one.  Even in cosmetic surgery for adults, there i some perceived "benefit" for the person undergoing the proceedure.  In this case - it is difficult to see "benefit" for the baby - and indeed there IS a potential for harm (pain, infection).  Beautcians etc who can do this proceedure do not have the same ethical limits constraints about acting for the benefit of the patient that doctors do.

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## kingwilly

> The point I am making is this is not a medical procedure - its a vanity one.


or a cultural one.

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## nidhogg

^ agreed.

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## buriramboy

LMFAO, can't believe some people comparing girls getting a small pin/needle pushed through their earlobe to getting part of their kunts hacked off.

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## Davis Knowlton

^Yeah, well in his 77 posts to date, he has repeatedly reinforced my initial impression that he was an idiot.

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## kingwilly

Certainly a bit over the top...

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## Seekingasylum

Mutilation of progeny is of course a savage heathen ritual but in the West it is also practised to a degree by Catholics which probably says it all.

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## DrAndy

> Certainly a bit over the top...


 no, a bit off the bottom

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## Cujo

> Many moons ago I lay in a hut in a village some 200 km from Nyala, Sudan, whilst the Aunties and other female relatives performed female clitorectamies on a couple of young girls.
> 
> I didn't sleep much.
> 
> There is no justification, in any way, shape or form for the mutilation of children's bodies.
> 
> None whatsoever.
> 
> IMHO no religous, cultural, fashion or fad can justify such crime.
> ...


Christalmighty, you comparing clitorectomy to piercing ears?
Get a grip, I bet you're an ideological PC leftie hippy crunt.

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## Davis Knowlton

^He's a fucking idiot. I'm still trying to red his lame ass, but am still out of ammo. And even worse, he lay in his hut listening to these little African children scream, and complained that he didn't get much sleep. Probably clutching his Bible the whole time. And then says I "mutilated" my daughter by allowing a doctor to pierce her ears. Every female child in the Philippines has pierced ears.

----------


## aging one

> Many moons ago I lay in a hut in a village some 200 km from Nyala, Sudan, whilst the Aunties and other female relatives performed female clitorectamies on a couple of young girls.  I didn't sleep much.  There is no justification, in any way, shape or form for the mutilation of children's bodies.  None whatsoever.  IMHO no religous, cultural, fashion or fad can justify such crime.  It is/should be a crime.  It is child abuse in its' purest sense.  No logical argument justifies such actions.  End of rant.


stupid rant, and I dont believe you. Hell they fucking circumcised me as well in the first few days of my life.  

Equating an ear piercing to tribal brutality is beyond contempt. It was not a rant, it was a bitch.

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## pickel

> I'm still trying to red his lame ass, but am still out of ammo.


That's OK, I got him for you Davis.  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

^ I don't think you should "red" idiots, they deserve sympathy

having said that, I did red BoonMee and Ent before I realised their lack of potential; sorry boys

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## kingwilly

> ^ I don't think you should "red" idiots, they deserve sympathy
> 
> having said that, I did red BoonMee and Ent before I realised their lack of potential; sorry boys


Fair point.

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## Davis Knowlton

> ^ I don't think you should "red" idiots, they deserve sympathy
> 
> having said that, I did red BoonMee and Ent before I realised their lack of potential; sorry boys


I almost never dole out a red. A few times a year, and then only to the worst of the worst. I am usually out of ammo from giving out greens, as there are a lot of posts and posters I enjoy. The three I am giving this ass are more than I gave out last year - and he deserves them all - and more.

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## Cujo

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> I'm still trying to red his lame ass, but am still out of ammo.
> 
> 
> That's OK, I got him for you Davis.


me too, but how can such an arse with only 70 odd posts have so much green.

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## BaitongBoy

^He's got a picture of someone with a goat?...

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## Cujo

> ^He's got a picture of someone with a goat?...


The only thing I can think of.

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## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> ...


Hard to figure. About 1/2 of his posts are in 'change a letter' or 'acronyms'; the rest are garbage. With at least 3 reds already just from this one thread, he should have no greens by now.

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## robtherich

My, my boys, methinks your reaction underlines your guilt.

Continue to mutilate your offspring under the perverse auspices of tradition, religion and fashion. 

Up to you. You have to live with it.

Incidentally, the fact that all the kids in the Philippines have pierced ears is hardly justification for you having your daughters stabbed.

Would you follow the same logic if you were living in countries where more intense absurdities were practiced.

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## superman

Can we include circumcision in this debate ? I'm pro.

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## Bettyboo

> My brother pulled some bird in a nightclub many moons back when we were teens, the girl said she had to show him something, then removed her clip on earrings and revealed 2 rotted away ear lobes. He was off like a shot. I think it was down to her wearing cheap metal ones, or she was sensitive to silver or gold 
> No shit


Why did he run away? He had an opportunity to stick it in all 5 holes...

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## Cujo

> My, my boys, methinks your reaction underlines your guilt.


What 'guilt'?
No one's denying they've had their kids ears pierced because no one who's done it feels guilty about it.
I think you're a stubby short of a slab.




> hardly justification for you having your daughters stabbed


STABBED??
Christ you're a drama queen.
I expect they usually administer a local anesthetic then use a large needle, relatively painless I should think.
Of course I just used a piece of 4x2, a not TOO rusty nail and a hammer, she screamed like a banshee and cried all bloody night but the infection cleared up in a couple of months.

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## robtherich

> What 'guilt'? No one's denying they've had their kids ears pierced because no one who's done it feels guilty about it.


That's a shame.

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## DrAndy

> Can we include circumcision in this debate ? I'm pro.


male or female?  as I said, I quite liked the Malay muslim girls lips being chipped off

but not the whole shebang

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## DrAndy

> No one's denying they've had their kids ears pierced because no one who's done it feels guilty about it.


maybe they should?  I will not let my daughters have theirs pierced until they are old enough (16+) to decide themselves

"luckily", my wife had hers get very infected on one side, so now she agrees

mind you, my eldest went out with her mates and came back with 6 piercings on each ear when she was 15; they did it themselves with an ice cube and needle

the school was not amused

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## robtherich

When should you pierce... (When should you pierce a baby's ears ?) 05-04-2012 11:23 AM Koojo Dickhead. 
 When should you pierce... (When should you pierce a baby's ears ?) 05-04-2012 10:20 AM pickel twat 
 When should you pierce... (When should you pierce a baby's ears ?) 05-04-2012 10:11 AM aging one really shitty post. Slamming Davis and making a shit analogy.  You ought to apologise. 
 When should you pierce... (When should you pierce a baby's ears ?) 05-04-2012 09:04 AM Marmite the Dog another prick through the teak doors

Wow, so much guilt. But hey let's keep on cutting and slicing to assuage the needs of fashion, religion and peer pressure.

As long as you all feel good about it.

Fok 'em, they're only kids. What do they know or feel?

Why should they have a choice in what's done to their bodies?

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## DrAndy

^ It may have been the way you said it, not what you said

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## Kwang

> mind you, my eldest went out with her mates and came back with 6 piercings on each ear when she was 15; they did it themselves with an ice cube and needle


I pierced my left ear when I was 15. Just shoved a stud straight through it, no pain at all, well, until my Dad saw it  :Smile: 

Ear lobes aren't  sensitive, squeeze your own now, you have to apply a lot of pressure to feel anything.

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## robtherich

> I quite liked the Malay muslim girls lips being chipped off


Why is that then ?

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## Cujo

> Originally Posted by Koojo
> 
> What 'guilt'? No one's denying they've had their kids ears pierced because no one who's done it feels guilty about it.
> 
> 
> That's a shame.


Why? It's a harmless, painless, temporary procedure.

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## robtherich

> Why? It's a harmless, painless, temporary procedure.


So why do you do it ?

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## Kwang

I took my other daughter to get her ear pierced in the UK, aged 7, after she requested it. That was 2 years ago I think, they refused to do it, it was a beauty Salon, said come back when she's 12 or 14, I can't remember which, she wouldn't give me an answer why, just said No.

All women have their ears pierced at some point in their life though, it's no big deal getting a babies done, but personally I wouldn't. 

I have a 18 month old daughter here with me now, loves running around in her Moms heels  and my shoes and flip flops. Anyway I went out and bought her some little heels of her own, because the little Monkey scuffed my hard to find size 11's  :Smile: 

When she wants her ears pierced one day, I will consent though

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## Cujo

> Originally Posted by Koojo
> 
> Why? It's a harmless, painless, temporary procedure.
> 
> 
> So why do you do it ?


Well when I say that I mean for other peoples daughters it's a harmless, painless, temporary procedure.
Like I said with mine I just used a piece of 4x2, a not TOO rusty nail and a hammer, she  screamed like a banshee and cried all bloody night but the infection  cleared up in a couple of months.

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## robtherich

> All women have their ears pierced at some point in their life though,


No they don't.

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## Kwang

You talking of Butch Lesbos ? Show me a woman who doesn't

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## robtherich

> You talking of Butch Lesbos ? Show me a woman who doesn't


That's as silly as your original statement.

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## Bettyboo

> I pierced my left ear when I was 15.


Left ear? Gay...

I'm not keen on kids getting pierced myself, but don't have kids so haven't been under the pressures. When the kids are older and ask to have them pierced it's a valid question. But, if the parents want to make their kids a fashion accessory then I'm not keen on that - very posh and becks... For cultural reasons is another question entirely which I don't think is valid for UKites such as meself.

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## Cujo

> Originally Posted by Kwang
> 
> I pierced my left ear when I was 15.
> 
> 
> Left ear? Gay...


How do you know?
I remember in the 80's I  got accused of being gay. "Why do you think that?"
I asked.
Apparently wearing a red tie was how the gays told each other they were gay.
Just that not being gay, I didn't know about that, so went ahead and wore a red tie.
Pretty stupid crap really.

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## Kwang

> Left ear? Gay...


Read this and weep 

Which ear do gay men have pierced? - Yahoo! Answers

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## Bettyboo

^ &^^ I remember at school that if a boy got his left ear pierced, it was gay. And, if a boy got his right ear pierced, that was gay. If he got both ears pierced, that was openly gay. But, seems as none of us were, openly at least, members of a gay community, we never really knew what was or was not gay, and we didn't much care about the concept really. But, up North where Kwang is from, you had to be very very careful...

^ those are kids, mate, saying it's a 90's thing; we were at school in the 80's so... Left was gay up North in the 80's...  :Smile:

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## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Kwang
> ...


I believe purples and magentas were the accepted trademark colours of you poofs back in the day...

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## Kwang

Look, for the umpteenth time Stratford is not fukkin up tut North Lar

----------


## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> I quite liked the Malay muslim girls lips being chipped off
> 
> 
> Why is that then ?


 
why, do you need a wank?

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## Ceburat1

> You talking of Butch Lesbos ? Show me a woman who doesn't



My aunt(RC), my mother and my sister (not Christians) , and my grandmother. None of them ever had pierced ears. Members of the United Pentecostal Church and many other religions also do not believe in piercing ones ears, nose, etc.  Two of my three daughters did but without my knowledge at the time and they were of legal age.

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## robtherich

> Quote: Originally Posted by robtherich View Post Quote: Originally Posted by DrAndy I quite liked the Malay muslim girls lips being chipped off Why is that then ?  why, do you need a wank?


No. It does however look like you have certain proclivities of a suspicious nature.

Why would you like   "Malay muslim girls lips being chipped off"?

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## robtherich

When should you pierce... (When should you pierce a baby's ears ?) 05-04-2012 02:18 PM Sir Wilson you're just trolling.
Yet another chap that can't believe that I really object to child mutilation at any level. No troll, sunshine, merely a firm belief.

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## DrAndy

> It does however look like you have certain proclivities of a suspicious nature


explain that, please

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## DrAndy

> Why would you like "Malay muslim girls lips being chipped off"?


it felt nicer, you old voyeur

wipe up after yourself

same as some women like cicumcised men, I suppose

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## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by robtherich
> 
> Why would you like "Malay muslim girls lips being chipped off"?
> 
> 
> it felt nicer, you old voyeur
> 
> wipe up after yourself
> 
> same as some women like cicumcised men, I suppose


I believe most women prefer cut guys...

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## BaitongBoy

^Andy does...

 :mid:

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## Sailing into trouble

When they are big enough to smack you in the Gob for being a dum ass. Why not Tats or rings aroung their necks. let a child be a child.

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## Kwang

Baitong Boy, go take a look at how many posts you make with the word Andy and anal in. It's worrying. Really

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## BaitongBoy

::chitown::

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## DrAndy

> Baitong Boy, go take a look at how many posts you make with the word Andy and anal in. It's worrying. Really


 
add to those the ones in which he just posts a smiley, and that about sums him up

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## DrAndy

> I believe most women prefer cut guys...


have you done a proper survey, or are you just talking out of your prick?

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## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Kwang
> 
> 
> Baitong Boy, go take a look at how many posts you make with the word Andy and anal in. It's worrying. Really
> 
> 
>  
> add to those the ones in which he just posts a smiley, and that about sums him up


It's all about post count.
Pursuing the magical 10K mark, so he might have access to the _secret rooms._

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## Bettyboo

> Pursuing the magical 10K mark


How magical is it - do you get a free iPAD?

----------


## FlyFree

> Originally Posted by Kwang
> 
> 
> Stupid I think piercing babies ears, just because Mom or Dads like the aesthetics
> 
> 
> In many instances, it's culturally or spiritually related...


Yea, like in dorks who see nothing wrong with child abuse.

Modifying a defenceless child's body, unless it is for very serious medical reasons is pretty low.

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## Kwang

> Modifying a defenceless child's body, unless it is for very serious medical reasons is pretty low.


Even though I wouldn't pierce my daughters ears, the words Mutilating and Modifying are just friggin ridiculous IMHO. what has got my attention on this thread though is how far would you go for your wife's beliefs. I'm no Catholic, and would never entertain the idea of circumcision just because my wife is. She would need to understand that we both have different beliefs and we will need a long long sit down and discussion over that one. And if she came back like she did with a bald baby the last time, I'd be gone, at least hair grows back

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## Kwang

How can you wank without a foreskin anyway ? Surely that foreskin is there to protect the sensitivity?  :Confused:

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## BaitongBoy

What is it with the talk of Catholics and circumcision?...It's a Jewish thing...

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## kingwilly

do a google search BaitongBoy, ya might learn something.

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## Rural Surin

> do a google search BaitongBoy, ya might learn something.


Should've suggested your favoured resource, Bill.

Wikipedia... :tosser1:

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## kingwilly

My favourite resource? Whatever are you talking about Jeff?

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## superman

I'm in no way religious or do I condone child mutilation, but I believe circumcision is right for boys. My belief is based purely on hygiene and STD preventative, that includes HIV. 




> Scientific trials have shown that male circumcision can reduce a man’s risk of becoming infected with HIV during heterosexual intercourse by up to 60 percent. These findings have led to the decision by UNAIDS and the World Health Organization (WHO) to recommended circumcision as an important new element of HIV prevention.


 Circumcision & HIV

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## kingwilly

Has WHO changed their stance then? I recall them quite deliberately not recommending that since the studies are not yet conclusive and that they don't want to give circumcised men a false sense of security which may lead to risky behaviours.

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## nidhogg

> Has WHO changed their stance then? I recall them quite deliberately not recommending that since the studies are not yet conclusive and that they don't want to give circumcised men a false sense of security which may lead to risky behaviours.


Circumcision (male) is now recommended by WHO as part of comprehensive national HIV prevention programs in areas of high transmission.

One point missing here is that circumcision (male) has pretty much alway been touted in (non-jewish) societies on health grounds.  The big American sell was always on the grounds that it was better for long term health.

Jews make no bones about it - it is a sacrificial offering, made as part of the pact between "god" and "Abraham".  However, like many religious strictures, there is probably a "practical" reason at the origin of it - as in back to health.  

Of course what is funny (ironic) is that circumcision amongst western (non-jewish) populations was on the decline - research had for years failed to prove any real tangible benefit between circumcision and health, and for many people without the belief in "benefit", the "push" factor to getting thier kids circumcised was a lot less and it did seem to be only vaguely religion based "mutilation" (to use an emotive word).  Then bang! along comes HIV showing that those wiley Jews may just have had a point.  Quite funny.

Female circumcision always seems abhorrent to me -in which ever form (even the mildest), with no justification anywhere except as an expression of male anger /dominance (despite the fact, as always, that it is the women who do the cutting).

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## kingwilly

> in areas of high transmission.


In other words, Subsaharan Africa. (or does parts of SE Asia get a look in too)

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> in areas of high transmission.
> 
> 
> In other words, Subsaharan Africa. (or does parts of SE Asia get a look in too)


anywhere with high transmission, so yes, SEA countries would be included - if they can get their act together to have comprehensive national programs!.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> Has WHO changed their stance then? I recall them quite deliberately not recommending that since the studies are not yet conclusive and that they don't want to give circumcised men a false sense of security which may lead to risky behaviours.


It's difficult to find any consistency among doctors regarding the pros and cons of circumcision. It's about 50/50. Some believe there are minor positives, some minor negatives. About 30% of males worldwide are circumcised, 68% of those are Muslim. The one area in which there does appear to be agreement is that circumcision plays a positive role in the prevention of HIV/AIDS in certain high risk countries, primarily in Africa.

Regarding ear piercing, in the Philippines it is a cultural thing. Doctors here estimate that over 98% of Filipina girls/women have had their ears pierced, most at a very young age. In the US, 75-85% of women have pierced ears, although most get their ears pierced in their teens.

----------


## DrAndy

> do a google search BaitongBoy, ya might learn something.


 
yes, BatBoy, have a good look around for your brain, it must be somewhere

----------


## DrAndy

> Female circumcision always seems abhorrent to me -in which ever form (even the mildest), with no justification anywhere except as an expression of male anger /dominance (despite the fact, as always, that it is the women who do the cutting).


can you justify that statement except as an expression of your ethnocentrism?

----------


## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> Female circumcision always seems abhorrent to me -in which ever form (even the mildest), with no justification anywhere except as an expression of male anger /dominance (despite the fact, as always, that it is the women who do the cutting).
> 
> 
> can you justify that statement except as an expression of your ethnocentrism?


 
Just because you apparently get off on women with mutilated genitals, it does not mean that all of us do, _Andy_.

----------


## DrAndy

that's true

although your use of the word "mutilated" is a little pejorative

----------


## robtherich

When should you pierce... (When should you pierce a baby's ears ?) 06-04-2012 04:17 AM Davis Knowlton 1/3. Stay tuned.
Oh no.................. More reds coming! I must change my life. You're silly Davis.

----------


## robtherich

When should you pierce... (When should you pierce a baby's ears ?) 09-04-2012 01:41 AM Davis Knowlton 2/3.
How sad is this.

----------


## Cujo

^ It's understood you're as dumb as dogshit but that seems a little petty for Davis.
What's up DK?

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^Don't like some idiot accusing me of mutilating my children. This is more reds than I've given out in two years. And the asshole deserves them - and more.

----------


## alwarner

y


> Many moons ago I lay in a hut in a village some 200 km from Nyala, Sudan, whilst the Aunties and other female relatives performed female clitorectamies on a couple of young girls.
> 
> I didn't sleep much.
> 
> There is no justification, in any way, shape or form for the mutilation of children's bodies.
> 
> None whatsoever.
> 
> IMHO no religous, cultural, fashion or fad can justify such crime.
> ...


You're the guy that's the social worker right?

Wow.  I'd like to read some of your welfare reports.

"I advise that immediate action is taken with this case and suitable foster care is arranged.  Although the child in question_ appears_ to be treated well and on the outside at least loved, well fed and clothed, the MONSTERS that call her their parents have had the kids ears pierced, which as we all know is child mutilation and akin to female circumcision.  I think they might be devil worshippers too"

----------


## kingwilly

^ he probably doesn't see anything wrong in what you've written above.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^^Didn't know he had been a social worker. Perfect fit for the sanctimonious prick.

----------


## kingwilly

> Perfect fit for the sanctimonious prick.


Isn't ?

----------


## robtherich

> Don't like some idiot accusing me of mutilating my children.


But you did though, didn't you.

----------


## robtherich

> Isn't ?


Wot ?

----------


## Rural Surin

> ^Don't like some idiot accusing me of mutilating my children. This is more reds than I've given out in two years. And the asshole deserves them - and more.


Just let it go, Davis....such types are not worth the effort.

----------

