#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > Health, Fitness and Hospitals in Thailand >  >  Supplements

## toront500

Guys

Do you take supplements?  What are you taking and why?

I'm over 50 and take the following daily:

Fish oil for supple joints.
Calcium/Vit D for healthy bones.
Vit B6 for healthy skin.
Raw garlic for mosquito deterrent.

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## AntRobertson

> Do you take supplements?


Yep:

protein powder(s) (whey and casein)
creatine
multi vits
fish / flax seed oils.



> why


Varying reasons. 

Joint-health, same as you, boost micro-nutrients, and protein powder as an easy way to get protein dose.

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## Pragmatic

> Do you take supplements?


No, other than electrolyte drinks if I've been sweating a lot. 

A normal balanced diet should be enough. If it ain't broke don't try and fix it.




> But not everyone needs to *take supplements*. “It's possible to get all of the nutrients you *need* by eating a variety of healthy foods, so you don't have to *take* one,” says Carol Haggans, a registered dietitian and consultant to NIH. “But *supplements* can be useful for filling in gaps in your diet.”
> *Should You Take Dietary Supplements? - NIH News in Health, August ...*
> 
> https://newsinhealth.nih.gov/issue/aug2013/feature1

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## Dillinger

Thinking of challenging Ant to a greased up wrestle soon.

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## AntRobertson

Challenge accepted!!

Wait, what??  :Very Happy:

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## Dillinger

Watch out for the Dill Nelson mate. You wont like that up ya :Smile: 

Is that pic showing?

My photobucket is down for maintenance

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## AntRobertson

> Is that pic showing?
> 
> My photobucket is down for maintenance


No it isn't, seeing a maintenance message.

Which is partly why I'm kinda nervous about what it is I have actually accepted.  :Very Happy:

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## NZdick1983

Horny goat weed (don't ask)  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Tribulus (testosterone booster)
Multi-Vitamin/mineral
Raw garlic
Creatine (before workouts)
Echinacea
Acidophilus 6 billion orgasms hehe... like yogurt good for your intestinal health
Glucosamine (for joints)
Fish oil 
CoQ10 
Green coffee extract

That's enough.. There is more.. just know you guys will take the piss... *no jibe at Earl lol

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## rebbu

> Horny goat weed


Hmmmm....




> chemicals that act somewhat like the female hormone estrogen


HORNY GOAT WEED: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD

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## NZdick1983

bro.. horny goat weed makes u ummm how can i put this... horny! lol...

Ok fookers.. bring it on! I'm gonna take a pic like me mate Dill, stack my supplements up.. just so u know I'm not full of horny goat weed lol

Hey Dill... WTF mate.. you use ponds night cream? jeez... only poofs use skin care... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

kidding bro... skin care is for the modern man.. confident in his manly man ways...
something like that..

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## stroller

Sparkly Magnesium tabs, Vit C powder and a daily cup of Liver&Gall tea.

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## Dillinger

^^  :rofl:

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## NZdick1983

(and the weirdo award for 2016 and beyond, goes to Dick! 555)  :bananaman: 

truth be told... our (ok... my) cosmetics (no, not lipstick or makeup fags!) just face serums and stuff, would reach my ceiling... (wish my dick would too!).

I'm not vain! just for research innit... gotta try it on my ugly mug before we sell it...

*sell my cosmetics, not my ugly mug...  :Smile:

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## nidhogg

> Guys
> 
> Do you take supplements?  What are you taking and why?
> 
> .


Does alcohol count?

If so, yes.

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## NZdick1983

> Sparkly Magnesium tabs


Na rak mak mak! lol  :rofl:

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## Kurgen

Moose and Tiger extract on a daily basis

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## Dillinger

^ but cries at the thought of tooth extract :Smile:

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## Kurgen

Far cough, I 'missed' Tuesdays appointment for no fault of my own(ish).

I have been reconvened for an hour of torture at noon tomorrow.

Once again, a few beers, mooses, 2 bottles of wine and 1/2 a Xanny and so I'm not bothered.

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## FlyFree

> (and the weirdo award for 2016 and beyond, goes to Dick! 555) 
> 
> truth be told... our (ok... my) cosmetics (no, not lipstick or makeup fags!) just face serums and stuff, would reach my ceiling... (wish my dick would too!).
> 
> I'm not vain! just for research innit... gotta try it on my ugly mug before we sell it...
> 
> *sell my cosmetics, not my ugly mug...


Note: I am not a Poofterphobe.

You know you're a blerry poofter. There's nothing wrong being a blerry poofter. In fact, you've hit the blerry jackpot.

So embrace it already ffs  :bananaman:

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## can123

I eat a tablespoon of pulped seaweed ( laver bread  ) every morning before I have my biscuit for breakfast. It tops up my iodine levels. For my afternoon tea I have a Spiller's Bonio biscuit which I dunk in lemon tea. They are dog biscuits and my teeth would not be able to chew them otherwise. This, along with an apple or orange, gives me all essential vitamins I need.

Many West Walians eat fried laver bread with bacon and egg for their breakfast, I don't as I just have a biscuit and a cup of coffee.


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-function.aspx

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## can123

Bonio biscuits were originally manufactured by Spillers but that firm was taken over by Purina. This is an extract from their website about the present day composition of said biscuits.

Please bear in mind that vitamins and minerals are only needed in small quantities. No extra benefit is to be gained by eating more than one Bonio per day. A box lasts me six weeks.


Composition:
Cereals (30% whole wheat), Derivatives of vegetable origin, Oils and fats, Minerals, Meat and animal derivatives.

Additives:
Nutritional additives:
IU/kg: Vit A: 9500; Vit D3: 700; Vit E: 75
mg/kg: Fe(E1): 58; I(E2): 8.5; Cu(E4): 7.1; Zn(E6): 85
With antioxidants

Analytical constituents:

Protein:	11.0%
Fat content:	5.0%
Crude ash:	4.0%
Crude fibres:	1.2%

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## Troy

Garlic to protect against witches
Dandelion or cat's ear roots dried and ground into a powder and drunk to protect against evil spirits.
Cloves and cinquefoil to protect against ghosts.
Copious amounts of alcohol to protect against me.

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## Mozzbie47

I have taken Glucosamine joint supplement for year's,, I have no doubt it work's for me.

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## AntRobertson

> Thinking of challenging Ant to a greased up wrestle soon.


 :smiley laughing: 

Oh fuck I've just seen the Vaseline!!

Here you go then you greasy focker, mine are in two different locations and I couldn't be arsed stacking them:

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## NZdick1983

Surprised lots of body builders among you lot... very healthy sport.

I used to be into body building in my teens, but trimmed down for Muay Thai.

I prefer body weight exercises now for functional strength (pull ups, dips,, push ups, etc) (with some compound weight training (dead-lifts, squats) thrown in for good measure)...

I am out now.. but I usually take pycnogenol, it's supposed to be 1,000 times more potent than vitamin c (as an antioxidant)...

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## AntRobertson

> Surprised lots of body builders among you lot


I don't really consider myself a bodybuilder personally. 

Strangely however there are a few posters on here are insistent that I am and that I use steroids. I guess that's TD for you though.

Actually by design I'm the same weight now as I was when I was about 14 so technically that might make me a body-de-builder.  :Very Happy:

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## VocalNeal

> so technically that might make me a body-de-builder.




 :Smile:

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## AntRobertson

Umm ok, not exactly what I mean but close enough.  :Very Happy:

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## VocalNeal

> I have taken Glucosamine joint supplement for year's,, I have no doubt it work's for me.


Is that what Dr. Blake prescribed. :bananaman: 

Some of my friends also take tumeric. One says he no longer walks like John Wayne first thing in the morning! :Smile:

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## misskit

^ He's taking turmeric for arthritis or something else that makes him walk like John Wayne?

I take cod liver oil capsules everyday for my skin. Keeps it from being dry.

Just finished taking ginkgo biloba and some other herbal concoction for tinnitus for six weeks but it didn't help at all.

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## Cold Pizza

> Guys
> 
> Do you take supplements?  What are you taking and why?
> 
> I'm over 50 and take the following daily:
> 
> Fish oil for supple joints.
> Calcium/Vit D for healthy bones.
> Vit B6 for healthy skin.
> Raw garlic for mosquito deterrent.



I take Vitamin B Supercomplex while drinking. I break up a pill into 2 half pieces and take them every 3 hours. Sometimes I take 1 1/3 pills (3 halves).

I have been taking 5,000 UI of Vitamin D.

I take Silymarin (Milk Thistle) on and off.

Sometimes I take Zinc and Magensium supps if I sweat a lot.

I take electrolytes every other day in a 1/2 litre of water.


*I used to take:* 

Creatine, but stopped. I can bloat you.

Why protein: No need to me to take this. I get my protein and calories from food.

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## ENT

I take a Multi Vit B, Vit B3 and B6, Vegemite/Marmite,  :Smile:  so lots of B vits.

Vit C several times a day in tabs, powder form or fruit. Magnesium tabs if I think I'm not eating enough green veges daily.

I keep potassium levels up by eating bananas daily.

There's enough Vits A and D in my milk, cheese and yoghurt intake, and Vit E I get from oats, nuts and seeds.                                

Plain unsweetened acidophilus or bulgarian yoghurt for gut health.

If I don't get enough protein in my diet, I'll add whey powder to my morning oats and nuts porridge.

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## Cold Pizza

> I take a Multi Vit B, Vit B3 and B6, Vegemite/Marmite,  so lots of B vits.


I've always liked Vegemite, but have never bought it. I went to buy it two weeks ago, but the store was out, so I bought Marmite.

Marmite is strong stuff (for me at least).

I put it a sandwich. 

What's the best way to put Marmite on food. What foods?




> Vit C several times a day in tabs, powder form or fruit. Magnesium tabs if I think I'm not eating enough green veges daily.


I take one green lime and squeeze it into luke warm water very morning. It's the first thing I drink.

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## ENT

Sounds healthy. I drink lime juice and water daily.

One good practice is to keep your pH at neutral, around 7.3.
Keep some litmus paper strips handy and test your urine and saliva pH regularly, every few days is usually enough.

If its pH 6.5 or below a tsn of baking soda in a glass of water helps alkalize the body. Drink a little of it frequently until your pH is up to scratch and decrease as many acid inducing foods from your diet as possible.

Alcohol, carbs, and animal proteins tend acidic while most fruits and veges are alkaline in effect.

A bottle of alkalized water @pH 8 just for sipping on through the day helps maintain a healthy pH balance.

Lemon or lime juice in water will do the same.

If you can get potassium bicarbonate instead of sodium bicarbonate as an alkali, you eat less sodium and improve your potassium intake.

Vegemite or Marmite, not much nutritional value difference, both have high levels of VitBs.

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## Cold Pizza

> Sounds healthy. I drink lime juice and water daily.
> 
> One good practice is to keep your pH at neutral, around 7.3.
> Keep some litmus paper strips handy and test your urine and saliva pH regularly, every few days is usually enough.
> 
> If its pH 6.5 or below a tsn of baking soda in a glass of water helps alkalize the body. Drink a little of it frequently until your pH is up to scratch and decrease as many acid inducing foods from your diet as possible.
> 
> Alcohol, carbs, and animal proteins tend acidic while most fruits and veges are alkaline in effect.
> 
> ...


Yes, I often take 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda and mix it with 4 oz of water.  This largely keep the gout away and Kmart (our member here) gave me this info back in 2009. Thanks again to Kmart.

I think the acidity in my blood (because of the acidity in the foods I ate and beer) was causing it.

I don't test myself, I just do the lime in the AM and baking soda before bed.

Yes, I will check out Potassium Carbonate.

I've never heard of it before.

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## Rigger

Started a isagenixs program, feel great got off the cigarettes as well now 7 weeks, 8 weeks on isagenixs 7.5 kilos down and feeling better each day.
Gym most mornings, replaced breakfast with a shake, eat a normal lunch and shake and salad at night while working 5 weeks on try to follow when home but add in beer and BBQ keep active by bouncing around sand dunes on a motorcross bike. 

Could do the same thing on meal replacement and supplements, just easy with isagenixs as they have done the home work for you. Can be expensive if your not earning.

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## beerlaodrinker

Beerlao and kamagra jelly does the bizzo  for me. I also keep a jar of multi vitamins for the over 50 in the work trucks console, that's me breakfast.

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## kmart

Magnesium, calcium, fish oil, occasional added vitamins if I'm tired.

Used to take Creatine for added strength, but I got acne and infected sweat glands under my armpits.. Never again.

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## AntRobertson

> infected sweat glands under my armpits


Never heard of that one before, doesn't sound very pleasant!

What happened?

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## Perota

Nothing. Unless you count a good dog as "supplement"

Usually supplements are used to fight problems caused by bad food and bad company. Since I tried to avoid both, my health has gradually improved to the point I don't think given my age it can get any better. A balanced diet, daily exercise and a few good friends (easily replaced by a good dog) is all you need.

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## kmart

> Originally Posted by kmart
> 
> infected sweat glands under my armpits
> 
> 
> Never heard of that one before, doesn't sound very pleasant!
> 
> What happened?


Just a reaction to the creatine. Acne on my back and arms, and developed occasional cysts (hives; as per attached "side effects") under my arms. 
https://www.drugs.com/creatine.html

Most people don't have a problem, but I stopped using it a few years ago.

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## AntRobertson

> but I stopped using it a few years ago


Wise choice. I've heard of some people suffering side-effects from creatine before but nothing to the extent you did (just bloating mostly).

Luckily enough I've not experienced any issues myself.

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## Rigger

> Originally Posted by kmart
> 
> infected sweat glands under my armpits
> 
> 
> Never heard of that one before, doesn't sound very pleasant!
> 
> What happened?


Had this happen once, blamed it on 57 deg weather wearing a new type of full coveralls. Was a painful experience having them cut out from under my arm pits

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## Davis Knowlton

> Nothing. Unless you count a good dog as "supplement"
> 
> Usually supplements are used to fight problems caused by bad food and bad company. Since I tried to avoid both, my health has gradually improved to the point I don't think given my age it can get any better. A balanced diet, daily exercise and a few good friends (easily replaced by a good dog) is all you need.


Agree. I've never needed/taken anything, unless prescribed by a doctor to combat a specific problem. Currently I take a daily potassium pill, prescribed post-stroke. That's it. Balanced diet/balanced life handles the rest.

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## ENT

Both creatine and whey powder or any high protein diet in excess of normal metabolic rate will cause an overload on the kidneys resulting often, in edema, especially of the feet, ankles and calves.

Swellings will reduce after several days once excess protein is eliminated from the diet.

What happens is that the un-eliminated protein will migrate into the lymphatic system along with the water that transports it, so causing fat-foot syndrome.

Protein/carb balance is essential for well being.

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## ENT

> I've never needed/taken anything, unless prescribed by a doctor to combat a specific problem. Currently I take a daily potassium pill, prescribed post-stroke. That's it.* Balanced diet/balanced life handles the rest.*


Balanced life style and diet is the key to good health and longevity.



And fwk the wowsers and begrudgers!    :Smile:

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## Loy Toy

Shit I cannot stack beer bottles on top of one another.

Anyway I am on a healthy beer and meat pie diet. Ching Ching..............

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## ENT

> Shit I cannot stack beer bottles on top of one another.
> 
> Anyway I am on a healthy beer and meat pie diet. Ching Ching..............


Watch your p/H level mate.

A neutral pH is essential for proper metabolism, as diseases and the advance of the ageing process only flourishes in an acid body.

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## AntRobertson

> Both creatine and whey powder or any high protein diet in excess of normal metabolic rate will cause an overload on the kidneys resulting often, in edema, especially of the feet, ankles and calves.
> 
> Swellings will reduce after several days once excess protein is eliminated from the diet.
> 
> What happens is that the un-eliminated protein will migrate into the lymphatic system along with the water that transports it, so causing fat-foot syndrome.
> 
> Protein/carb balance is essential for well being.

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## ENT

In your case, Aunty, ignorance is bliss.

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## NZdick1983

> Agree. I've never needed/taken anything, unless prescribed by a doctor to combat a specific problem. Currently I take a daily potassium pill, prescribed post-stroke. That's it. Balanced diet/balanced life handles the rest.


source: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...utrition-loss/

* What’s the nutritional difference between the carrot I ate  in 1970 and one I eat today? I’ve heard that that there’s very little  nutrition left. Is that true?*_—Esther G., Newark, N.J._ 

It would be overkill to say that the carrot you eat today has very  little nutrition in it—especially compared to some of the other less  healthy foods you likely also eat—but it is true that fruits and  vegetables grown decades ago were much richer in vitamins and minerals  than the varieties most of us get today. The main culprit in this  disturbing nutritional trend is soil depletion: Modern intensive  agricultural methods have stripped increasing amounts of nutrients from  the soil in which the food we eat grows. 



Sadly, each successive  generation of fast-growing, pest-resistant carrot is truly less good for  you than the one before.


That's the main reason I take supplements as insurance I am getting not just the minimum requirement of vitamins and minerals merely for survival... but getting the optimum amounts for _optimum health_...
Have you seen the amounts of vegetables and fruits we are supposed to eat? we would be grazing all day to try and get the optimum nutrition from supermarket food. I bet none of us can get all the nutrients we require from food alone..



Even our good Doctors, are changing their minds about vitamin pills, etc and even prescribing them to patients...


Does your car need fully synthetic engine oil? no... will it perform better with synthetic oil? yes... be generous to your body, treat it well...drink 2 quarts of Mobil one engine oil daily - and your body will be like a formula one racing car...


Brrmmmm brrrrmmmmm hehe...  :rofl:

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## AntRobertson

> In your case, Aunty, ignorance is bliss.


I know enough to know that I'm not qualified to give medical advice or make diagnoses on an Internet forum.

I also know that you aren't either.

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## ENT

So?

Is it that all that I post is just a little over your head?    :Smile:

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## AntRobertson

> Is it that all that I post is just a little over your head?


That's kinda funny considering that you have just - intentionally or otherwise - completely missed the point of what I posted.

And you're a paranoid-delusional loon, bENT. 

If I ever did actually start understanding half the stuff you dribble (or seeing unmarked scout cars) I'll take it as a sign that I need urgent mental-health care/assistance.

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## ENT

In other words, you haven't a clue about what you're trying to read or even what you're talking about.

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## Cold Pizza

Lui Marco on Creatine.

I agree with him. Strength DOES go up. You can lift heavier.

For some there are some side-effects. At times, it bloats me.

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> 
> Sounds healthy. I drink lime juice and water daily.
> 
> One good practice is to keep your pH at neutral, around 7.3.
> Keep some litmus paper strips handy and test your urine and saliva pH regularly, every few days is usually enough.
> 
> If its pH 6.5 or below a tsn of baking soda in a glass of water helps alkalize the body. Drink a little of it frequently until your pH is up to scratch and decrease as many acid inducing foods from your diet as possible.
> ...


  Quite a few Ex pats here  including me take baking soda in water daily , here is the lowdown on it Healing the Kidneys with Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda)

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## NZdick1983

I was brought up by my Grandparents and they told us the benefits of Sodium Bicarbonate... I thought it alkalized the body, as disease can only flourish in an acidic body... I didn't realize it acted directly on the liver and its function.

Very interesting.. I will have to take it more often.

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## piwanoi

> I was brought up by my Grandparents and they told us the benefits of Sodium Bicarbonate... I thought it alkalized the body, as disease can only flourish in an acidic body... I didn't realize it acted directly on the liver and its function.
> 
> Very interesting.. I will have to take it more often.


  Yeah Dick ,but the beauty of Bi Carb (baking powder ) its so easily obtainable here and as cheap as chips  :Smile:

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## NZdick1983

If I had to pick my top 3 super health tips:-

1. Pure water (drink more than you think you need)
2. Raw garlic (every other day)
3. Bi Carb (every morning on an empty stomach)

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## Stretchy

How much bicarb in a glass of water?

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## ENT

One teaspoonful.

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## Cold Pizza

Last week I started supping to improve my strength, and therefore my amount of weight able to lift, rep-ranges, and increase my size a bit:

3 weeks ago I started:

On brand, Whey protein.


Last week:

Xtend brand BCAAs (for pre and post-workouts)


Today: 

Creatine. 2.5 grams this week and up to 4.0 grams starting next week.


I'll do all of these for 4 months.

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## piwanoi

> One teaspoonful.


  I take half a teaspoon 2 times a day , here is some more info on the wonders of bi carb   :Smile:  AFH LIBRARY - Oral Dosages of Bicarbonate.

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## Cold Pizza

> How much bicarb in a glass of water?


I take it daily for gout prevention.

I take 1/2 teaspoon in 4 ounces of water (and stir). 2 times per day. So, total is 1 teaspoon per day in the AM and before bed. 

For blood alkalization.

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## ENT

Gotta keep that p/H right, or none of your metabolic processes will function optimally.

Another handy tip....only breath in and out through your nose, even walking, running, training etc.

Keeps nitric oxide levels right, needed for cardiovadcular health, reduces platelet formation and slows the heart rate.

We mostly suck in too much air, so hyperventilate a lot, losing energy.

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## NZdick1983

^ Very good tip, ENT.

Except when you're going down on a lady... then I find a snorkel comes in handy..

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## piwanoi

> ^ Very good tip, ENT.
> 
> Except when you're going down on a lady... then I find a snorkel comes in handy..


   You'll  have to learn to breathe through your ears  :rofl:

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## ENT

Just take a deep breath and make it last for the duration.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Gawd, what a horrible unhealthy practice!

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## NZdick1983

I forgot ACV apple cider vinegar (should be in the top 5).. not the processed shit you buy from the grocery store, the real deal organic one (called "Mothers").. from a health food shop.

One of the amazing benefits of drinking ACV, is the ability to hold your breath for hours - enabling uninterrupted cunnilingus...

Just kidding... :Aussie: 

Apple Cider Vinegar: 13+ Health Benefits | Reader's Digest

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## ENT

Easy to make too.
Apple season in NZ, we had lots of fruit trees, heaps everywhere, apple crumble....yum.

We'd chuck the apple peals and cores into a bucket under the kitchen counter, half full then fill to three quarters full with water, cover, and leave for a few days until it turned to cider, another week or so and it was the smoothest apple cider vinegar, and organic.

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## NZdick1983

^ Wow, never occurred to me to make ACV..

Might try making my own beer though.. beer is healthy (in moderation)..

Oh, coconut oil.. that's another thing I take everyday... *not as a lubricant up the bum, like Dill... hehe...  *

...don't worry, he will never venture on this thread... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## ENT

Get yerself a can of Coopers, (I prefer stout), a clean 25 litre paint bucket (no lid), with a plastic tap fixed into a hole you make in the side, about an inch or so above the bottom of the bucket. Sterilize it with hot salt water after washing it out. Sterilize your wooden spoon for stirring and a 2ft square sheet of clear plastic for a brew-cover at the same time.

Read the Coopers instructions, follow them, place the plastic sheet over the top of the brew filled bucket and bungy/bicycle tube it down tight around the top. 

Make a pinhole in that to let the rapidly generating CO2 gas and residual air escape as the brew ferments at around 24 C  in a dark place.

Place the bucket of brew on top of an old kitchen chair with the seat missing, place a big empty cardboard box over the brew bucket and a low wattage lamp clamped to the chair,  six inches below the bucket, and slip an old sleeping bag over the lot to keep the heat in.

Two days (up to five at lower temperatures) and the brew's done, at 24 -27 degrees C. Test the brew temperature with the back of your hand against the side of the brew bucket,..too hot and it feels warm, too cold the bucket feels cold.             

You can watch progress through the clear plastic top, which domes up with CO2 under pressure below, excess escaping out the pinhole. Once the fermentation's over the bubbles cease rising and popping on the brew surface.

There's no chance of infection as you don't expose the brew to air by lifting the lid off to inspect as in other brew buckets with tight fitting lids and little water traps on top. The CO2 being heavier than air forms a sterile seal over the brew, nothing survives in CO2.

Test the brew by tapping a little into your hydrometer tube. Once the brew reaches a touch under 1000 on the gauge the fermentation's complete.

Tap as much as you want to into previously sugar primed and sterilized (hot salt water wash) bottles for sedondary fermentation and cap them.
I put a tip of a teaspoon of chili powder per bottle in my stout for an added and zing.   :Smile: 

Drink the rest fresh, as the level drops, the CO2 stays in the bucket forming a sterile seal over your good brew.

You can increase the alcohol content nicely to around 6.5% or more by adding an extra handful or so of sugar to the brew, or by using a couple of litres less water (so lower volume) to start with.

You can tweak a good brew by adding vitamins to it before covering, Vit C get's a more complete fermentation going, and Vit B3 gets another regeneration of B vitamins going, including nicotinamide riboside, THE longevity vitamin.

The brown gunk left over in the bottom of the bucket is treasure!
You can use it start another brew, or evaporate the water out of it, add salt and you've got brewers yeast and by boiling and thickening it you'll end up with marmite/vegemite!  :Smile:

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## NZdick1983

Thanks for the tips, ENT... sounds complex, but interesting and fun! 

Had some lovely Pilsner craft beers in Japan.. can't find anything close in NZ...

still in search of my ultimate beer. Any good Kiwi beers worth mention?

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## ENT

Speights.    :Smile:

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## PeeCoffee

Years ago I enjoyed Speights draught while at their brewery pub in Dunedin though it wasn't a pilsner.
Possibly a light porter as it was a dark hue of gold (but not brown)...maybe an amber ale.
I enjoyed it so much I purchased a tee-shirt there.

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## Davis Knowlton

Where's Bill Blaney? He's usually all over these whackjob "I'm an Internet Doctor, I Am!" threads? Starved to death?

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## ENT

^^ It's not a bad drop for a commercial Kiwi beer.

The water used comes from a spring below the Speights brewery, lowest fluoride levels in NZ, it's claimed.

Locals get their fresh drinking and cooking water from there, as the Dunedin water supplies loaded with fluorides.

The Otago uni dental college keeps the pressure on to fluoridate the water as it the excess fluoride causes fluorosis which dentists then get paid to fix.

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## ENT

> Where's Bill Blaney? He's usually all over these whackjob "I'm an Internet Doctor, I Am!" threads? Starved to death?


I think he flounced after I diagnosed him as a narcissist.   :Smile:

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## Davis Knowlton

Truth hurts?

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## ENT

Yes,...well...ya get that.    :Smile:

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## Munted

Back to op. I read some internet source that taking lecithin was good for the liver. So being a 

medium to heavy drinker I bought some soy lecithin granules and began by mixing half a 

tablespoon into my daily  green smoothie. 


A  couple days later I start getting a lot of stomach activity like massive growling and  like a 

homoculous  stabbing me from the inside with a needle and  this in addition to wanting to dump 

much more  frequently than usual.  I put this down to a change in drinking from bourbon 

liquor to  10% plus beer.  Wrong!  I cut the beer and went back to the bourbon. Still same 

problem. I'm thinking shit maybe I got stomach cancer. So I cut the soy lecithin and am now 

back to my semi-constipated self. 

Now I am just consuming eggs (natural source of choline) plus taking a B vitamin supplement.

----------


## ENT

Eat eggs, 2 a day, and big doses of Vit B3 and Vit C, and really reduce the alcohol intake, have a spliff instead,... to help fix your liver.

If you're still farting, eat acidophilus yogurt, 100gm a serve, at least once a day for a week to fix the problem.

----------


## Pragmatic

> I read some internet source that taking lecithin was good for the liver.


Read about the benefits of Acetylcysteine.




> *Health Benefits of N-Acetyl Cysteine*
> 
>   As well as its powerful antioxidant effect, NAC offers many other  health benefits ranging from counteracting poison to remedying lung  infections. For example, Acetylcysteine works to treat bronchitis, ear  infections, help relieve hangover symptoms, help with symptoms of Lou  Gehrig’s disease and heart disease, lower cholesterol, reduce cancer  treatment side effects, help with polycystic ovary syndrome, increase  immunity against certain strains of influenza, help increase energy and  allow the body to recover faster after a sports injury. It may lessen  symptoms of these diseases and also reduce common side effects from the  medication used to treat these patients.


 Acetylcysteine/NAC Benefits & Information

200 mg sachet from your pharmacy is 4 Baht. Take one sachet 3 x a day. Look up N-Acetyl Cysteine on Youtube. Really good info on there.

----------


## Pregomeister

Multi vits and fish oil
Debating protein supps- is it really healthy to be ingesting that much protein daily? Harsh on the kidneys and liver much?

----------


## ENT

^ ^ Good idea.

----------


## Munted

> ^^ It's not a bad drop for a commercial Kiwi beer.


Yes agreed. When I very infrequently go to a pub Speights is it.

----------


## ENT

> Multi vits and fish oil
> Debating protein supps- is it really healthy to be ingesting that much protein daily? Harsh on the kidneys and liver much?


50gm protein per day to maintain muscle, 75<80 gm per day to increase muscle growth.
More, < 150 gm per day for body building.

A blood test will tell you if you're eating too much protein.

A balanced protein:carb intake's essential.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Good idea.


It's also claimed to repair liver damage through alcohol abuse.

----------


## Munted

> have a spliff instead,... to help fix your liver.


Would prefer this to poison alcohol,  spliff is difficult to access in NZ if not in some scene or another. Cops look the other way if carrying small amounts unlike Asia so I'm led to believe getting caught up in some rort by corrupt police isn't an option so will not go there.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Here's James "Tiny" Vest on what the most Anabolic substance is: food.

Remember that the $upplement Bu$iness.

----------


## Cold Pizza

*Supps: the multi-million dollar indu$try. Billion$ for Bull$hit.
Jaysus, just have Green tea, EVOO, and a fresh lime crushed into warm water like I do every morning.* 

*Study: Those High-Priced Antioxidants May Be Killing You*
20Feb - by Stewart Lawrence -  9 - In Animal Studies Drug Studies Food Studies Health Studies Longer Life Studies

BEIJING — Fear of mortality is one reason Americans spend so much on “antioxidant” products, including Vitamin C supplements and beta-carotene, which promise a longer healthier life. According to the National Institutes of Health_, more than half of adults in the U.S. consume some kind o_f antioxidant product, *spending $37 billion each year.*

But a study conducted in China – where aging is akin to a national obsession these days – found that antioxidants don’t work as billed. The study is published in the journal Redox Biology.


A new study finds that antioxidant supplements may be more harmful to the human body than believed.
Rather than extending longevity, researchers say they trigger a stress reaction which causes the body to age more rapidly.

In other words, those expensive life-enhancers may actually be killing you.

Researchers discovered the relationship by studying how oxidants affected worms and human cells at various stages of development.  Oxidants, it turned out, had no measurable impact on aging.

But introducing antioxidants disturbed the mechanism in cells that resists aging and as a result, the cells began aging more rapidly — “unnaturally fast,” said Chen Chang, the lead scientist on the project at the Institute of Biophysics, part of the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing.

Chang and her team are especially concerned about their findings because of the widespread use of antioxidants among Chinese youth.

But older people are also more likely to die faster due to supplements, they found.  Chang recommended that anti-oxidant use in China and elsewhere be curtailed.

The Chinese study appears to confirm the results of a 2008 “meta-review” of 405 studies comparing the longevity of people that consumed various kinds of vitamin supplements with those that took only a placebo.

That review, conducted by top medical researchers in Denmark, found no significant differences in the mortality rates of the two groups.

So far, none of these new studies has put a dent in the multi-billion dollar vitamin and supplement industry, which continues to promote the presumed anti-aging benefits of its products.

And there is little evidence that consumers are paying attention, either – or if they are, that they care.
*
But the evidence against antioxidants is mounting.*

Another medical study conducted last year found that overuse of Vitamin D supplements was associated with a higher risk of falls in men and in women 70 years and older.

https://www.studyfinds.org/study-ant...ments-vitamin/

----------


## Dead Metal

Omega 3 Triple Strength 1000mg , 2 per day

Glucosamine sulphate 750mg & Marine Chondroitin 600mg & calcium 50 mg , 1 per day.

Glucosamine 500mg Marine Chondroitin 100mg & MSM 100mg , 1 per day.


Where do you buy yours from ?

I have seen all of these in Thailand, is this where you buy yours ? 

are supplements in LOS safe ???

----------


## Sumbitch

I don't take anything. I used to be religious, though, about a multivitamin (Centrum) once a day for many years and haven't noticed any difference in my health since I stopped taking a multivitamin more than a year ago. BTW, I have much bigger fish to fry, such as osteoarthritis, so just about everything else is on the back burner. With that in mind I was really enthusiastic about taking a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar every day. I tried that for a month and didn't notice any arthritis health benefits during that time.

----------


## kmart

^It's an Alkalizing agent only (same as Baking Soda), most people eat too much acidic foods, especially animal protein. -Long-term as part of a good diet, it is a real health benefit. I've not even had a cold for 2 years.

^^Try iHerb: iHerb.com - Vitamins, Supplements & Natural Health Products

Great prices and selection. Takes a while for delivery though, especially lately for some reason.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I've not even had a cold for 2 years.


Neither have I...and w/o taking any supplements except for that one month. I seem to be getting healthier as I grow older except for the big item I mentioned. I believe I wouldn't be able to do anything except get depressed if it wasn't for the OTC painkiller I take daily. And I can perform anything whilst on it: run, lift weights, post... ::spin::

----------


## NZdick1983

What's your fav Kiwi Beer, ENT?

Speights Pilsner is OK...  Asahi Super Dry in NZ, is sneakily imported from China (it's shite) 

Asahi Super Dry in Japan - is probably my fav commercial beer.

I'm still on a quest to find my ultimate beer.

My American mate, who we met in Japan, is a flight attendant for American Airlines - and a self-confessed beer whore. 

Best beer I ever tried was a craft beer (Pilsner) at a 5 star Fukuoka Hotel buffet.
My missus used to work at said Hotel... $30 buffet (all you can eat and drink).

My American buddy shares a striking resemblance to this dude.

I'm exhausted, excuse my gibberish, even worse, disjointed sentence structure than normal.

----------


## tomcat

Recently underwent a thorough physical at Samitivej and was surprised to learn that I'm down a quart on Vit D. The doctor said it's a fairly common occurrence in places where folks avoid the sun. He recommended a few Vit D 600s twice a week to restore the blood balance...other than that, I focus on the Med diet for all nutritional needs and Paul Patisserie for all excessive desires...

----------


## PlanK

^

Vit D deficiency quite common in Western world.




> If there's only one supplement you're taking for your health and your  diet is decent, it should probably be Vitamin D. I highly recommend  taking Vitamin D instead of a multivitamin most of the time...   ...easiest to take Vitamin D with a meal, but you can also pair it with a fat like fish oil or a teaspoon of coconut oil.


From examine.com  An excellent place to check out the efficacy of any supplement.  They base their results on medical trials and not bro-science.

----------


## tomcat

^sounds good...thanks.

----------


## Cold Pizza

*I've been watching and reading James Tiny Vest, Cutler, others, and now this fella:

BCAAs do slow fat loss and it does kill Ketosis.

Here's why:*

----------


## ENT

Live longer with *Vitamin B3*.

*Other Names:*
3-Pyridine Carboxamide, 3-Pyridinecarboxylic Acid, Acide Nicotinique, Acide Pyridine-Carboxylique-3, Amide de l’Acide Nicotinique, Anti-Blacktongue Factor, Antipellagra Factor, B Complex Vitamin, Complexe de Vitamines B, Facteur Anti-Pellagre, Niacin-Niacinamide, Niacin/Niacinamide, Niacina y Niacinamida, Niacinamide, Niacine, Niacine et Niacinamide, Nicamid, Nicosedine, Nicotinamide, Nicotinic Acid, Nicotinic Acid Amide, Nicotylamidum, Pellagra Preventing Factor, Vitamin B3, Vitamin PP, Vitamina B3, Vitamine B3, Vitamine PP.

*
NIACIN AND NIACINAMIDE VITAMIN B3 OVERVIEW INFORMATION*
Niacin and niacinamide are forms of Vitamin B3. Vitamin B3 is found in many foods including yeast, meat, fish, milk, eggs, green vegetables, beans, and cereal grains. Niacin and niacinamide are also found in many vitamin B complex supplements with other B vitamins.

Niacin is used for high cholesterol. It is also used along with other treatments for circulation problems, migraine headache, dizziness, and to reduce the diarrhea associated with cholera. Niacin is also used for preventing positive urine drug screens in people who take illegal drugs.

Niacinamide is used for treating diabetes and two skin conditions called bullous pemphigoid and granuloma annulare.

Niacin or niacinamide is used for preventing vitamin B3 deficiency and related conditions such as pellagra. Each of these forms of vitamin B3 is used for schizophrenia, hallucinations due to drugs, Alzheimer’s disease and age-related loss of thinking skills, chronic brain syndrome, depression, motion sickness, alcohol dependence, and fluid collection (edema).

Some people use niacin or niacinamide for acne, leprosy, attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), memory loss, arthritis, preventing premenstrual headache, improving digestion, protecting against toxins and pollutants, *reducing the effects of aging,* lowering blood pressure, improving circulation, promoting relaxation, improving orgasm, and preventing cataracts.

NIACIN AND NIACINAMIDE VITAMIN B3: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Live longer with *Vitamin B3*.
> 
> *Other Names:*
> 3-Pyridine Carboxamide, 3-Pyridinecarboxylic Acid, Acide Nicotinique, Acide Pyridine-Carboxylique-3, Amide de l’Acide Nicotinique, Anti-Blacktongue Factor, Antipellagra Factor, B Complex Vitamin, Complexe de Vitamines B, Facteur Anti-Pellagre, Niacin-Niacinamide, Niacin/Niacinamide, Niacina y Niacinamida, Niacinamide, Niacine, Niacine et Niacinamide, Nicamid, Nicosedine, Nicotinamide, Nicotinic Acid, Nicotinic Acid Amide, Nicotylamidum, Pellagra Preventing Factor, Vitamin B3, Vitamin PP, Vitamina B3, Vitamine B3, Vitamine PP.
> 
> *
> NIACIN AND NIACINAMIDE VITAMIN B3 OVERVIEW INFORMATION*
> Niacin and niacinamide are forms of Vitamin B3. Vitamin B3 is found in many foods including yeast, meat, fish, milk, eggs, green vegetables, beans, and cereal grains. Niacin and niacinamide are also found in many vitamin B complex supplements with other B vitamins.
> 
> ...


I take a LOT of Vitamin B3 from my daily B-complex vitamins I take every night: I take 1 full pil and a half a pill *at least* in pieces over a few hours while drinking. Break a full pill in half. Your body does not need it all at once. 

Niacin is included too.

It's water soluble.

I've been doing this since at least year 2000.

----------


## tomcat

> I've been doing this since at least year 2000.


no effect on retardation then...

----------


## NZdick1983

Any of you jokers taking Maca?

I just added it to my array of herbs/powders/supplements...

Moving away from capsules - to powder form. More bang for your buck and easier for the body to digest. Taking Good Green Stuff (a NZ product)... I would urge you guys and girls to take it (or the American equivalent) in favor of a multi-vitamin.

I add my Maca to GGG in the morning and evening. I still take capsules (garlic, fish oil, flaxseed oil, etc) just tending to favor powder form these days..

----------


## tomcat

...^a balanced diet is all you need...unless you're desperate for upmarket urine...

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
> 
> I've been doing this since at least year 2000.
> 
> 
> no effect on retardation then...


I haven't seen the studies although I presume retardation is a condition one is born with. 

And NZ Dikie,

Thanks for the FYI on this above.

----------


## ENT

> I take a LOT of Vitamin B3 from my daily B-complex vitamins I take every night: I take 1 full pil and a half a pill *at least* in pieces over a few hours while drinking. Break a full pill in half. Your body does not need it all at once. 
> 
> Niacin is included too.
> 
> It's water soluble.


Vitamin B3 aka niacin, is nicotinic acid, made from tobacco leaf.

Nicotinamide or niacinamide is a milder 'no-flush' form of niacin (nicotinic acid), and is manufactured in the body from niacin. This in turn boosts the body's cellular energy by forming ATP, adenosine triphosphate, which breaks down to ADP, adenosine diphosphate.

This increases energy levels and helps in metabolising fats etc, reducing triglycerides and LDL (bad) cholesterol and increasing HDL (good) cholesterol.

Through various metabolic pathways, ADP in turn aids in repairing the telomeres in your DNA, so repairing nerves and brain and other body tissues including skin.

The most recent development of vitamin B3  is in the discovery of NR, nicotinamide riboside, or nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, the vitamin found in minute quantities in milk, whey, beer and yeast.

NR has been found to double the lifespan of flatworms and rats in the laboratory. 
Rats, equivalent in age to 60yr old humans became as sprightly as those a third of their age after being given given NR, then continued in that high energy, extremely healthy, regenerated mode until frozen (harvested) when they reached double their normal lifespan.

Human clinical trials are now underway, and results indicate that the effects found in mice, rats etc were replicated in humans.

I got onto Nicotinic acid therapy in 2014, and within 5 months the difference in my metabolism, overall health and strength was remarkable. 
I lost most of my LDL cholesterol and midriff fat, had increased energy levels, improved eyesight and with exercise replaced around 5 kg of fat with 5 kg of lean muscle mass.

I took 250 mg / day to start, increasing slowly to 500 mg then 1 gm per day until I was taking 3 gm per day plus, all under doctors' supervision, blood tests for liver and kidney function every 6 wks. All good.

Now I take niacinamide 6 x 250 mg tabs per day, as niacin seems unavailable in Thailand.

I'll be getting the NR form asap, prices are going down, commercial forms are marketed as Niagen and Chromadex.

----------


## longway

I highly recommend Vitamin K2 (MK4 formulation). Don't confuse it with Vitamin K, it performs an entirely different role to that vitamin. The recommended daily dose, in tablet form, is 250 mcg.

This is what i take, just one drop is sufficient and should be taken with fat as the vitamin is fat soluble. e.g. I put a drop on buttered toast. One bottle will last about 3 years at that dose.

https://www.iherb.com/pr/thorne-rese...oz-30-ml/21592

There are natural sources, but in the modern diet its not so abundant, unless you eat a lot of gouda cheese or eat natto everyday.

It is the regulatory chemical that allows your body to deposit calcium to your bones and not your arteries, it also plays a vital role in the growth and development of the skeleton facial features, and teeth of children as they grow. If children get a adequate supply of this vitamin, along with the the other necessary nutrition, they will grow to their full potential in the right proportions, with good teeth in an uncrowded jaw, and have even facial features

Its something that is worth taking throughout your whole life, and should help prevent calcification of arteries and bone loss as we age.

Here is a very informative link that goes into great deal of detail regarding the vitamin.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-...inally-solved/

I have been taking for a good few years now and make sure my infant son gets it in his diet. Hopefully he will like gouda cheese when he gets old enough.

----------


## NZdick1983

> ...^a balanced diet is all you need...unless you're desperate for upmarket urine...


Yes, you will survive on a balanced diet (whatever that means)... 'optimal health', is almost impossible to achieve without supplementation however...

Because of soil depletion, crops grown decades ago were much richer in vitamins and minerals than the varieties most of us get today.

It would be overkill to say that the carrot you eat today has very little nutrition in it—especially compared to some of the other less healthy foods you likely also eat—but it is true that fruits and vegetables grown decades ago were much richer in vitamins and minerals than the varieties most of us get today. 

The main culprit in this disturbing nutritional trend is soil depletion: Modern intensive agricultural methods have stripped increasing amounts of nutrients from the soil in which the food we eat grows. Sadly, each successive generation of fast-growing, pest-resistant carrot is truly less good for you than the one before.

Source: https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...utrition-loss/

Also, that bright yellow urine is no indication that your vitamin pills/powders are not being digested... quite the opposite in fact.
B vitamins are water-soluble and move directly into the blood, where  they travel freely throughout the body. Your kidneys detect excess  riboflavin, which is excreted in the urine.

----------


## tomcat

> 'optimal health', is almost impossible to achieve without supplementation however...


...thanks, but I'll stick with the advice I've received from doctors over the years: a balanced diet unless testing shows a need for supplementation (like my need for a daily  vitamin D tablet as a recent blood test showed a deficit: hate the sun)...

----------


## ENT

I rely on the sun and fish oil, fatty fish, along with cheese and eggs for Vit D.

Omega 3 in fish oil combined with VitD contained in it help regulate serotonin levels and improve brain function.

All the vitamins are essential for optimum health, and eating a broad range of organic fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts, seeds and animal/fish products ensures an adequate supply of them.

Increasing doses of any of the vitamins will have a knock-on effect on the others, especially in the B range of vitamins which work best in combination.

----------


## NZdick1983

All good mate... I'm not trying to persuade anyone, it's your body, take care of it how you see fit. The benefit of herbs, supplements are still being argued over - and will be for some time to come.

In the meantime, I choose a holistic approach to my health... some of the stuff I take might have minimal benefit, some has great benefit, some might be a waste of money.. 

doctors are not in the business of advocating supplements - they are in the business of staunchly promoting pharmaceuticals...

Also depends on your doctor, our family Dr, prescribed vitamins for my Nana for her macular degeneration, among other things... quite surprised to see him change his tune... times are changing...

Up to you.. :Smile:

----------


## tomcat

> our family Dr, prescribed vitamins for my Nana for her macular degeneration, among other things... quite surprised to see him change his tune... times are changing


I would hope he prescribed vitamin supplements based on either geriatric research or tests of bodily fluids...in which case, no change of tune needed...

----------


## NZdick1983

All vitamins commonly found in food... funny that... considering she has a 'balanced diet' already.. would have thought everything would have been covered...

obviously not... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

You can no longer rely on food alone for optimum nutrition.
Handicapping yourself by “only getting nutrients from food” is not a good idea IMHO.

----------


## tomcat

> IMHO


yes, that's what it is...

----------


## ENT

Doctors are pill pushers, pharmaceutical salesmen, confirmed to me by my own enlightened GP in NZ, who used just exactly those words.

Some of the doctors at his clinic were dead against me taking mega doses of VitB3 citing a lack of peer reviewed research as 'proof' that Vit B3 wouldn't work for me.

After strenuous discussions, I was finally given a prescription for it, costing me NZ$5 for 3 months supply of VitB3 at 3 gm/day. with a repeat 3 month follow-up at the same cost.

Compared to previously buying it over the counter at the pharmacy for NZ$ 20 or so for 60 tabs @ 250 mg each, a fortune for 5 days supply @ 3gm /day.

Needless to say, the rest of the clinic team were trying to get me to take statins instead.

Life-style change made it even easier for me, no smoking, cutting right down on alcohol, carbs, no sugar or salt added to food or drink, lots of home juiced veges and fruit along with nuts, oily fish, less meat, more eggs, milk, cheese, whey and yoghurt.

And the gym, increased my daily exercise time from half an hour a day (including walking) to an hour brisk walk a day, using hand grips while walking, half an hour doing weights and exercycle per morning, along with another half hour all up of intermittent sets of reps on resistance bands, doing squats, press ups and more dumbbell reps. Stopped using the elevator up to my 4th floor apartment, even while carrying home two full bags of groceries.

Persistence was the key, I felt insecure if I hadn't done some strenuous exercise every day.

I had never felt so fit and healthy for years, so determined to continue, with obviously improving health, daily.

As you say Dick, "Up 2 U."

----------


## ENT

> You can no longer rely on food alone for optimum nutrition.
> Handicapping yourself by only getting nutrients from food is not a good idea IMHO.


Agreed, especially if you can't grow your own organic food supply.

----------


## tomcat

> Persistence was the key


true for many aspects of life...

----------


## PlanK

> Any of you jokers taking Maca?
> 
> I just added it to my array of herbs/powders/supplements...
> 
> Moving away from capsules - to powder form. More bang for your buck and easier for the body to digest. Taking Good Green Stuff (a NZ product)... I would urge you guys and girls to take it (or the American equivalent) in favor of a multi-vitamin.



Been taking Good Green Stuff for a couple years now.  I know you should get all your vits & mins from a proper diet, this is more like my insurance policy.  Better than multivitamin pills. 

Don't know what Macca is.  Is it another one of these healthy oil things like Chia/Flaxseed/Quinoa ?

----------


## NZdick1983

^ Interested to hear your review of GGG.. I think it's one of NZ's best products.
We will sell it in Japan.

Here is some info on "Macca" for ya.



*What is Maca and why should I put it in my Smoothie?*

“Maca”. Maca has been highly regarded for centuries as a miracle food so it’s no surprise it has become a recent addition to the “must have” nutrient list for smoothies.

Although it’s part of the broccoli, radish, and watercress family and even looks like a very robust radish, it has an earthy taste with a nutty flavor, making it a perfect complement to smoothies. Like the rest of the roots in the cruciferous family, it’s low in calories – one teaspoon of maca powder has only 10 calories.

Native to the Andes Mountains, maca is the superfood of one of the oldest, and once most advanced civilizations on earth – the Incas and Peruvians. Over the centuries maca has been called “magic, the food of the gods, a natural Viagra, and a miracle drug” for a reason. It works. For centuries people have been using it for everything from enhancing their fertility to boosting their immune system or libido, but most people simply love the non-caffeinated burst of energy they get from putting maca in their smoothies.

Most people report a subtle, but noticeable, non-jittery type energy boost within minutes to hours from adding just one teaspoon into their smoothie.

It’s not because it’s magical, but because of the root’s very real and very scientific makeup and how it affects everything from circulation to the endocrine system. To date there are no known toxic side effects from using maca. As a matter of fact, scientists say that repeated use of maca is like repeatedly exercising – the body not only adapts, but also gets stronger over time each time you use it.


*Health Benefits of Maca*

Just one teaspoon in your smoothie once or twice a day can do amazing things. Here are just a few of the things you can expect maca in your smoothie to help with:

*Energy*: Most people feel their mood and energy level lift almost instantly. Users report their energy, stamina and endurance.

*Sex Drive*: Maca has been shown to increase not only the male sex drive, but the production of sperm as well.

*Fertility:* Maca increases fertility in both men and women.

*Migraines:* If you suffer from migraine headaches you might want to try maca. Because most migraines are related to an imbalance in hormone levels, or fluctuating hormone levels, maca works by leveling out those levels. Maca doesn’t create any hormones in the body – it just helps the body produce them more consistently and effectively. It helps balance the body’s production of estrogen and progesterone. Maca also helps restore balance to the hypothalamus and pituitary glands – the body’s master gland system.

*Memory:* Maca enhances memory as well as our ability to learn and process mentally. It makes us more alert and aware.

*Wounds*: Maca speeds wound healing and benefits the circulatory system as well.

*Vitamin packed*: Maca includes 55 phyto-chemicals, including vitamins B1, B2, B12, and Vitamin C, zinc. It has amino acids, calcium and phosphorus as well.

*Immune Booster*: Maca’s 22 fatty acids function both as a fungicide and as a local antiseptic. These actions, along with the natural Vitamin C and zinc are believed to help aid in overall immunity enhancement.

*Stress*: For people with adrenal stress from work, disease, exercise or PTSD, maca can reduce the effects of cortisol on the adrenal glands and other organs so impacted by a “Type A”, high pressure lifestyle or job. Athletes, executives and anyone with an active life will appreciate how maca helps address the destructive actions of mental, emotional and physical stress on the body. Maca can help lower high blood pressure and how the body burns and utilizes food.

*Thyroid:* The Thyroid gland controls the rate at which the body produces energy from nutrients. Maca contains an alkaloid extract which activates the body’s natural calcitonine hormones, which regulate the metabolism of calcium (Ca) and phosphorus (P) in the blood. The hormone is secreted by the thyroid and the parathyroid. It acts in the intestines, bones, and kidneys to increase the (Ca2+) in the plasma. It also aids in wound healing through blood clotting. (Dr. Chacon — Peru)

*Pancreas*: Maca also boosts the work your pancreas does in keeping your blood sugar levels even. The pancreas is a vital part of the digestive process. If the duct from the pancreas become blocked for some reason the digestive fluids of the pancreas may digest the pancreas itself, or lead to pancreatitis, or pancreatic cancer.

*Thymus*: Your thymus is the organ responsible for the health of your immune system. It produces the T-cells that fight off infection and disease, especially important if you are getting treatment for HIV, AIDS or cancer. Maca contains vitamin C as well as trace elements of zinc. Researchers found out years ago that C and zinc, when taken together, help boost the immune system function of the thymus gland. Part of maca’s adaptogenic value may be its ability to enhance the thymus’ cell mediated immunity.

----------


## tomcat

^Has any of the above been proven by a reputable lab?...

----------


## NZdick1983

yup...

----------


## Latindancer

Thanks Dick...I've always meant to try maca and never got around to it.





> vitamin B3 is used for schizophrenia, hallucinations due to drugs, Alzheimer’s disease and age-related loss of thinking skills, chronic brain syndrome,
> 
>  leprosy, attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), memory loss


Yep, that describes you well.




> replaced around 5 kg of fat with 5 kg of lean muscle mass.


Changed the shape of your head, did it ?  :rofl:

----------


## tomcat

> yup...


...from WebMD: Maca, the Peruvian herb, generates lots of buzz about its reputed ability to boost libido.

It is revered in the ancient Incan culture for its many medicinal purposes. According to folk belief, it is a plant known for its legendary ability to deliver energy and mental clarity and enhance sex drive for more than 2,000 years.

Does Maca Live up to its Reputation?

Maca is an herb with plenty of anecdotal information about its usefulness passed down from generation to generation. But scientific evidence on its effectiveness is limited.

There are only a few randomized control studies showing some benefit. Researchers are looking at how it may help men and women with low libido. Some studies suggest it may improve semen quality, relieve symptoms of menopause, and reduce enlarged prostates.

A few animal studies have found maca is an aphrodisiac, but major studies are lacking on humans. A review of maca in the journal Current Sexual Health Reports concluded "there is no strong medical evidence to support its use for female sexual dysfunction."

Georgetown University Medical Center professor Adriane Fugh-Berman, MD, says, "Maca might have a positive effect on sexual dysfunction. Yet there are so many psychological and social aspects when measuring sexual healing that it is hard to be conclusive." Berman is the author of 5-Minute Herb and Dietary Supplement Clinical Consult.

Claims that maca is a highly effective aphrodisiac may be exaggerated, Berman says. "Some claims are over the top -- compared to a placebo, maca only slightly enhanced sexual desire. The strongest evidence is that it may increase sperm count and improve fertility in certain men," she says.

Berman, who co-authored The National Women’s Health Network’s The Truth about Hormone Replacement Therapy, says there have been no clinical trials done on women regarding reduction of menopausal symptoms...

----------


## NZdick1983

... and continuing on with the same article, it gets more positive...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Although the evidence may be lacking, psychiatrist and functional medicine physician Hyla Cass, MD, says maca works. "In my practice, I have seen maca restore hormonal imbalance and related sexual desire and fertility in both men and women."

Chris Kilham, author of Hot Plants, says, "Maca enjoys a very long history of successful medicinal use for menopausal discomfort, infertility, and sexual healing. The question is not whether it works -- *because we know it works with certainty -- but how it works.*"

In the meantime.. while they are deliberating about the effects of an ancient herb, used for 1,000's of years, with no toxicity or side effects, Dickie will gain the benefits from it... :bananaman: 

H20 on the other hand, I am wary of... 'wicked water' never has undergone double blind studies and Scientific scrutiny, so I shall continue being skeptical and drink beer laced with meth instead, until the conclusive verdict is out in 2099... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## tomcat

...so be it...

----------


## oxxo

I force feed myself 1000s of dollars of supplements  every week. And I'm better than you because of it

----------


## NZdick1983

> I force feed myself 1000s of dollars of supplements every week. And I'm better than you because of it


I don't think anyone is claiming to be better than anyone else... this is a supps/health thread innit?

Perhaps you could add something of value... what sups do you take Ox?  ::chitown::

----------


## oxxo

I wasn't really busting on anybody in particular; just late in the work day for me.
I take arginine and orninthine regularly, and a  water soluble b-complex when i get to feeling run down.Just took one a little while ago.
I try eat healthy, fresh fruit and veggies. keep the meat fresh as possible, no oscar mayer cold cuts or McD's; doesn't always work though.

----------


## NZdick1983

^ I know you weren't dissing anyone.

You are in good company.. I read 68% of Americans take vitamins/supps daily.

I'm not sure what % of Kiwis... I suspect more than 68%.

I also 'juice' veges when I can... 

I think more emphasis should be placed on eating less... as research very strongly suggests restricting your calories is key to longevity.

------------------------------

"Eating less can boost healthier ageing by protecting the body’s cells from harmful deterioration and the risk of cancer.

Scientists know an extreme diet does not appeal to many people but say their discovery could lead to ways of mimicking its effects and pave the way for an “anti-ageing pill”.

Evolutionary biologist Dr Margo Adler, who led the research, said that cutting back on food leads to increased rates of “cellular recycling” and repair mechanisms in the body.

Dr Adler, of the University of New South Wales in Australia, believes this evolved to help animals continue to reproduce when food is scarce. Their bodies adapt by recycling and reusing nutrients stored in the cells.

She said: “This is the most intriguing aspect from a human health standpoint. Although extended lifespan may simply be a side effect of dietary restriction, a better understanding of these cellular recycling mechanisms that drive the effect may hold the promise of longer, healthier lives for humans.”

The process, known as autophagy, is essential to the survival of newborn babies when they suddenly lose their supply of nutrients from the placenta, but have yet to drink milk.

They bridge the gap by feeding on their own cells, breaking them down and releasing essential nutrients.

Increased cellular recycling could account for the longer lifespan of laboratory animals on very low diets".

----------


## ENT

> I think more emphasis should be placed on eating less... as research very strongly suggests restricting your calories is key to longevity.
> 
> "Eating less can boost healthier ageing by protecting the bodys cells from harmful deterioration and the risk of cancer.
> 
> Scientists know an extreme diet does not appeal to many people but say their discovery could lead to ways of mimicking its effects and pave the way for an anti-ageing pill.


That's a fact.
I've been on a calorie reduced diet lately, around 1,200 < 1,300 cals a day, against my normal 2,000 or so cals a day, so got more and better sleep, have more energy and physical strength, better reflexes, less back fat.

Has the sane effect as VitB3 megadosing or N Riboside.

----------


## PlanK

> Although the evidence may be lacking, psychiatrist and functional medicine physician Hyla Cass, MD, says maca works. "In my practice, I have seen maca restore hormonal imbalance and related sexual desire and fertility in both men and women."


Sounds a bit like Tribulus, only has effects on infertile men.  Is there something you wanna tell us, Dick?

----------


## toront500

Guys

Anyone use Blackmore Exec B's ?

----------


## Latindancer

I do sometimes but I break em in half. A whole tablet is just too much vit B. The excess just goes out in your urine.

----------


## ENT

Not so.
Blackmores exec. is not straight B vits, it contain a bit of a dolly mixture, including vit c and herbs.

The bright orange colour seen in urine is most likely B12.

----------


## rickschoppers

All Bs and Cs are water soluble and any excess is eliminated through the urine. As, Ds and E are the fat soluble vitamins that can be stored and subsequently overdosed on.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> I take *arginine*


Do you take Arginine (or L-Arginine) in relation to exercising or weight lifting?


How does it make you feel better?


Just asking because some people swear by it before they exercise.

----------


## ENT

An elderly gent I knew in NZ swears by the stuff, reckons it gets him skipping along.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> An elderly gent I knew in NZ swears by the stuff, reckons it gets him skipping along.


James Tiny Vest swears by L-Argenine, and he's skeptical on many supps.

In general, it open up the arteries and/or capilleries for increased blood flow. 



I'm not selling it, but "NOW" brand is considered very good.

https://www.iherb.com/pr/now-foods-l...FQ8JvAodBzgM9w

----------


## tomcat

> I'm not selling it, but "NOW" brand is considered very good.


Who considers it "very good"...the manufacturer? the distributor?

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
> 
> I'm not selling it, but "NOW" brand is considered very good.
> 
> 
> Who considers it "very good"...the manufacturer? the distributor?


I would never believe anything from a manufacturer or distributor, OR these bushitty bodybuilding and exercise website who sell these $upp$.

I looked up consumer reports more than a couple times, and "now" came up all the time.

Also, as I noted above, James Tiny Vest has been using it for a long time and claims it works for him. No, he is not sponsored by them.

----------


## tomcat

> and claims it works for him


...noted this weak spot...

----------


## ENT

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> 
> An elderly gent I knew in NZ swears by the stuff, reckons it gets him skipping along.
> 
> 
> James Tiny Vest swears by L-Argenine, and he's skeptical on many supps.
> 
> In general, it open up the arteries and/or capilleries for increased blood flow.


So does _lobelia_ at Bt 50 per ounce dry weight of the herb, around 3 years supply from the Chinese herb shop. in CM.
You can buy it online too.

Plus, _lobelia_ dilates the lung's bronchioles and alveoli and allows a greater Co2/O2 exchange rate and improved Nitric Oxide uptake in the lungs, so regulating and improving heart, circulatory and lung functions.

----------


## tomcat

...info from Consumer Reports

*Some vitamins and minerals may carry more risks than benefits*
By Consumer Reports April 14

Vitamins and minerals are marketed to keep you healthy. But some may carry more risks than benefits, especially as we age.

“Supplements are most useful when they’re used to replace dietary deficiencies,” says Consumer Reports’ chief medical adviser, Marvin M. Lipman. “Therefore, most of us don’t need them. Such needless use can be harmful, especially if you also take prescription medications.”

In addition, the evidence supporting supplements is often flimsy or mixed, and because of lax regulation you can’t always be sure what they contain. The following four products may be especially harmful if you’re older than 50.

Folic acid
Folic acid (vitamin B9) has been suggested — but not proved — to help ward off Alzheimer’s disease, depression and heart disease. But a recent study published by the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition links excess folate (including folic acid) to burning, tingling or numbness in the extremities of people with a common gene variant. “The odds were sevenfold higher for those who consumed more than 800 [micrograms] daily,” says co-author Ligi Paul of the Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University.

In addition, taking as little as 300 mcg daily may mask a B12 deficiency, which is relatively common in older adults, says Consumer Reports’ medical director, Orly Avitzur. “Undiagnosed, that can lead to nerve damage, cognitive trouble and even psychiatric problems,” she says. Folic acid can also reduce the effectiveness of the seizure drug fosphenytoin (Cerebyx and generic) and the cancer drug methotrexate (Rheumatrex and generic).

Who might need it? Women who are pregnant or planning to get pregnant, to prevent birth defects.

Calcium
You might take calcium supplements to strengthen your bones, which can weaken with age. But regular use may increase the risk of kidney stones and possibly heart disease.

A study in the Journal of the American Heart Association in October found that people who took calcium supplements over a 10-year period were more likely than others to accumulate the artery plaque that can lead to heart attacks. Supplemental calcium can also negatively interact with some heart and thyroid medications.


Who might need it? People who eat little or no calcium-rich food, such as dairy products and leafy vegetables.

Iron
Anemia, or low blood levels of iron, is more common with age. But taking too much iron can mask symptoms of anemia, which can be caused by internal bleeding, and lead to a missed diagnosis.

Iron supplements can also inhibit the absorption of certain antibiotics and blood-pressure-lowering drugs such as captopril (Capoten and generic). And if you have hemochromatosis, a common genetic condition, iron pills can lead to an overload of the nutrient in vital organs, potentially causing diabetes symptoms, heart problems and liver damage.

Who might need it? People with diagnosed iron-deficiency anemia.

Vitamin E
These supplements are said by some to help prevent cancer, dementia and heart disease, but there’s little proof — and plenty of reason to avoid them. Research has linked regular use to a 13 percent higher risk of heart failure in certain populations. A 2011 study published in JAMA also found that taking 400 international units daily may boost the likelihood of prostate cancer by 17 percent. Vitamin E supplements may also make some chemotherapy drugs less effective.

Who might need it? Consumer Reports’ experts don’t recommend it for anyone.

And three to consider taking
Most of us get all of the vitamins and minerals we need from food. But you might want to ask your doctor about the following supplements:

●Vitamin D. It might make sense if you’ve been diagnosed with osteoporosis, get little sunlight or rarely consume D-rich foods such as fatty fish, eggs and fortified milk.

●AREDS2 (a blend of vitamins C and E, copper, lutein, zeaxanthin and zinc). It might make sense if you have age-related macular degeneration, a leading cause of vision loss.

●Vitamin B12. It might make sense if you’re a strict vegan or if you regularly take certain kinds of heartburn drugs or metformin, a diabetes medication.

----------


## NZdick1983

We were shopping and spotted a deal on "Propolis" $25 for 210 capsules of 2,000 mg.

So, we thought we would forego/skip lunch, which only would have been 2 burger king meals, grab this supplement instead, to add to our ever increasing range of goodies..

Very popular with Japanese (Propolis, not BK)... so we are testing the benefits on ourselves with a view to sell it in Japan (along with other niche Kiwi health food products).

Of course, the usual suspects *not naming names... TC!!! 55 will say it's a waste of money, just eat a balanced diet (whatever that is) yada yada... 

*Disclaimer: BK is a once a week treat at the mall and doesn't represent our diet, which is pretty healthy anyway.

That said, here is the background and potential health benefits of Propolis.
If any of you have taken it, please relay your experience, cheers.

*7 Health Benefits of Bee Propolis*





 Posted on: 
 Sunday, April 26th 2015 at 11:00 am
 Written By: 
*Margie King, Health Coach*


This article is copyrighted by GreenMedInfo LLC, 2015
*Visit our Re-post guidelines*

*Bees make more than honey.   They also make gunk called propolis. And this "bee glue" is a powerful  health balm.  In fact, studies show it has anti-cancer properties.*
 Dr. Seema Patel of the Bioinformatics and Medical Informatics  Research Center, San Diego State University conducted a comprehensive  review of the *literature on propolis and cancer*.  Dr. Patel found laboratory and animal studies supporting propolis efficacy against cancers of the:         Brain         Pancreas         Head and neck         Kidney and bladder         Skin         Prostate         Breast         Colon         Liver         Blood*Propolis* contains as many as 300 active compounds.  These components were found to fight cancer in a variety of ways including:         Preventing the growth of new blood vessels to feed cancer cells (anti-angiogenesis)         Preventing the spread or metastasis of cancer from one organ to another         Halting cancer cell division         Inducing apoptosis or programmed cell deathIn addition, propolis was found to mitigate the side effects or toxicity of chemotherapy drugs used in the treatment of cancer.
 Bees make propolis by gathering resin from pine and other  cone-producing evergreen trees.  They blend the resin with wax flakes  and pollen, and take it back to the hive. There they use the sticky mess  to patch holes, seal cracks and build panels in the hive. 
 But propolis does more than architectural duty.  It also acts as an  antiseptic barrier protecting the hive from contamination and from  external invaders like mice, snakes, and lizards. In fact, the name  propolis comes from the Greek meaning "defense of the city."
 The antimicrobial properties of propolis protect the hive from  viruses and bacteria. Researchers found that bees living in hives coated  with propolis have lower bacteria in their body and also 'quieter'  immune systems.[i]
 And propolis doesn't just benefit bees. For thousands of years folk  medicine practitioners have used bee glue to treat abscesses, heal  wounds, and fight infection.  In fact, propolis was listed as an  official drug in the London pharmacopoeias of the 17th century.
 Modern studies confirm a long list of health benefits offered by  propolis.  A search of PubMed shows over 2,000 studies on bee propolis.   Here are just a few of its health benefits.
*1. Anti-Microbial Action*
 Propolis has a wide range of antibacterial properties.[ii]   It is also has anti-fungal and anti-viral powers.  In one animal study,  applying a propolis solution to wounds helped speed healing in diabetic  rats.[iii]
 In children, propolis has been found to: *Prevent respiratory tract infections* *Remedy symptoms of the common cold* *Prevent middle ear infections**2. Heals Burns*
 A 2002 study from the _Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine_ found that propolis may promote the healing of minor burns.[iv]  The researchers compared a propolis skin cream with silver  sulfadiazine, a drug used to treat burns.  Study results showed propolis  was just as effective as the drug in treating second-degree burns.
*3. Prevents Dental Cavities*
 Greek and Roman physicians used propolis as mouth disinfectant. Modern studies show it may be effective in the treatment of *periodontitis* and gingivitis.
 Many studies have also found that extracts from bee glue limit bacterial plaque and reduce tooth caries.[v]
 Other studies show that propolis may even help regenerate dental pulp,[vi] as well as bone tissue,[vii] and cartilage.[viii]
*4. Treats Parasites*
 Preliminary trials show propolis may eliminate parasites.  In one  study people who took propolis had a 52 to 60% success rate in  eliminating the parasite giardiasis.[ix]
*5. Wart Removal*
 In a single-blind, randomized, 3-month trial, 135 patients with  different types of warts received oral propolis, echinacea, or a  placebo.  The results were reported in the _International Journal of Dermatology_.  Patients with plane and common warts achieved a cure rate of 75% and  73%, respectively. The results were significantly better than those  associated with echinacea or placebo.[x]

*6. Beats Drug for Genital Herpes*

    Propolis is more effective than a common drug for treating genital herpes according to a study published in _Phytomedicine_.[xi]
 For 10 days, 90 men and women with genital herpes applied either an  ointment containing propolis flavonoids, or acyclovir (a drug used to  treat herpes sores), or a placebo ointment.  The patients applied the  ointment four times a day. 
 By the study's end, 24 out of the 30 patients in the propolis group  had healed.  Only 14 of 30 in the drug group, and 12 of 30 in the  placebo group were cured.
 Like honey, the composition and health benefits of propolis will vary  depending on the trees and flowers and the location where it is  produced. You can find propolis in its raw form directly from a local  beekeeper.  It's also in the "cappings" of honey – a crunchy mixture of  pollen, propolis, and bees wax.
 Propolis is also available without the honey. But extracts or  tinctures of propolis are more convenient to use.  They are popular for  boosting the immune system, and for their anti-inflammatory, antioxidant  and anti-microbial properties. 
 You can also find propolis formulations for colds and flu-like  symptoms, wound healing, acne, cold sores, genital herpes, and  dermatitis.  They are available as creams, ointments, lotions,  toothpastes, and mouth washes. 
 Oral propolis formulations can be found as pastes, lozenges, liquid extracts, tablets, and capsules.
 However, if you have an allergy to honey or bees, you may also have a reaction to products containing propolis.

----------


## ENT

^^ That report is a load of bollix circulated by Big Pharma in their drive to eliminate vitamins and minerals from the market.

Here's the give away, from the above article;

“Supplements are most useful when they’re *used to replace dietary deficiencies*,” 

A misleading statement altogether, they supplement, not  replace dietary requirements.
                                                                                                                                                                                           "says Consumer Reports’ chief medical adviser, Marvin M. Lipman."              

.....a pharmaceutical industry spin doctor.

“Therefore, most of us don’t need them. Such needless use *can* be harmful," 

Bollix again, most of us need them because we don't get enough in our over-poisoned diets to keep healthy, witness the rise in all symptoms of ageing and/or physical decline, from arteriosclerosis, alzheimer's and diabetes through to cancers and any of the list of degenerative diseases plaguing young and old especially in the euphemistically termed, more "civilized" world.


especially if you also take prescription medications.”

Yeh, right..... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

All a spin from Big Pharma, the whole article funded by Big Pharma, looking to increase damage control in their never ending drive to increase profits and through using the unsuspecting public as guinea pigs for their often useless and mostly extremely dangerous drugs.drugs 

I could pick through each vitamin or mineral mentioned in that crap piece of scare-mongering and refute the report's assertions, ...though calcium supplements are generally over-used, by men...women having a different uptake of it.
I assert that an equal amount of magnesium to calcium is needed in the diet.

Notice how the main objection to those supplements' use is that they can interfere with hard drug use, drugs promoted and sold by the criminal Big Pharma industry as so called 'cures' to the very deficiency symptoms that supplements alleviate!

Wankers....

----------


## tomcat

> That report is a load of bollix circulated by Big Pharma in their drive to eliminate vitamins and minerals from the market.


...you have reliable evidence to support that egregious generalization then...



> A misleading statement altogether, they supplement, not replace dietary requirements


the statement mentions _deficiencies_, not _requirements_



> .....a pharmaceutical industry spin doctor.


so, you're familiar with his work then...



> Bollix again, most of us need them because we don't get enough in our over-poisoned diets to keep healthy, witness the rise in all symptoms of ageing and/or physical decline, from arteriosclerosis, alzheimer's and diabetes through to cancers and any of the list of degenerative diseases plaguing young and old especially in the euphemistically termed, more "civilized" world.


irrelevant...your "spin doctor" is discussing potential _harm_ from supplements...



> All a spin from Big Pharma, the whole article funded by Big Pharma, looking to increase damage control in their never ending drive to increase profits and through using the unsuspecting public as guinea pigs for their often useless and mostly extremely dangerous drugs.


*sigh*...irrelevant...try to focus...



> I could pick through each vitamin or mineral mentioned in that crap piece of scare-mongering and refute the report's assertions


you neglect to mention your medical background...



> Wanker....


...heal thyself...

----------


## NZdick1983

> “Supplements are most useful when they’re used to replace dietary deficiencies,”


^ Of course, but that doesn't mean to say that supplements can't help support health in general.

I have read that exact same article (that TC posted).. I agree with the basic premise that healthy food should form the foundation of a healthy diet, with modest supplementation for optimum health.

I would like a study to be made on an individual or group of heath food nuts/vegetarians with the best diet on earth, to see if even they are getting every single nutrient and maco nutrient needed for ultimate health. 

Like ENT said, the soil in which our crops are grown, are already deficient in nutrients, i.e. much less nutritionally dense than generations past.

There are some vitamins/minerals that even junk food junkies get enough of... I read that an excess of Calcium, instead of strengthening bones, will actually do the opposite, so TC did bring up some good points.

We should be judicious and select our supplements for their quality of ingredients, and their absorption - avoid cheap brands with synthetic fillers, etc..

Also, we should be careful to not double-up on non-soluble vitamins (that TC mentioned)

In fact, when you consider that doctors are poorly trained, if trained at all on vitamins, amino acids, and minerals they are the absolute worst judges of whether you should supplement for a given situation.

Add to that the various things that can create shortages within your own body such as poor diet, poor digestion, biotic overgrowths, digestive disease, etc and you can see lots of rationale for the availability and ingestion of a wide variety of supplements. Should you take them recklessly .. of course not.

Lastly, the human body has needs similar to many other life forms, yet are you aware that only 4 species on earth cannot make their own ascorbic acid anymore, presumably because of a genetic flaw during our evolutionary process? Primates for instance produce up to 15 grams a day, either from their livers or kidneys. But then who needs ascorbic acid in their blood plasma? Humans have survived on the bare minimum of it for probably thousands of years. You do. Ascorbic acid helps to dissolve plaque buildups in your vascular system, and it's an antioxidant as well. It builds collagen in your joints as well. But humans don't have problems with plaques in arteries do they? Ah, yeah .. it's a leading cause of death amongst humans around the world.

All of this is well documented BTW, but I bet your doctor is unaware of it. They will rely on statins, beta blockers, etc to get you in line once things get bad enough. That's just treating the symptoms with meds that are proven not to work and creatre a raft of side effects you have to live with.

Testing and analysis by Dr Linus Pauling indicate they we need AT LEAST 4 grams a day .. more than you could ever get from any food. This has been known since the early 50's of the last century. So where do you get ascorbic acid if it's so important? You might know it by it's other name .. vitamin C. Just one example showing the benefits of optimal levels of a vitamin versus the piddly levels recommended by the FDA.

----------


## tomcat

> In fact, when you consider that doctors are poorly trained, if trained at all on vitamins, amino acids, and minerals they are the absolute worst judges of whether you should supplement for a given situation.


*_cough_*



> Add to that the various things that can create shortages within your own body such as poor diet, poor digestion, biotic overgrowths, digestive disease, etc and you can see lots of rationale for the availability and ingestion of a wide variety of supplements.


...better education as to what constitutes a healthy diet and advice from the family doctor might have greater efficacy than overblown claims of "optimum health" from tablets, capsules, gelcaps and the like... 



> Dr Linus Pauling


 :rofl:

----------


## NZdick1983

jing jing.. Doctors are not trained nutritionists.. they have basic knowledge on this topic, it is not their specialty.

----------


## tomcat

> jing jing


...two roads diverged in the supplement thread...

----------


## ENT

^^ Very true, Dick.
I had to argue tooth and nail with my doctors in NZ for them to prescribe the vitamins and minerals necessary for my turn around therapy 3 years ago.

Barring one doctor, who agreed with my theories almost to a 'T', all the GPs and nurses at the hospital were stuck in the dark ages when it came to recent findings, and as that one doctor said, "You _know_ that doctors are essentially there to diagnose obvious conditions and to sell pharmacological products, for which they're paid to prescribe."

Very few GP's read to keep up with latest research, preferring to swallow the cordial that the drug industry feeds them, and get paid for it.

----------


## NZdick1983

Thanks ENT.

TC has brought up some good points - reckless use of low quality supplements without research and proper implementation into your existing diet, can be risky (just like ingesting bad quality food) one must be careful in selection.

Good that she (or he??) has brought balance to this thread, otherwise it would just be us health geeks, high fiving each other's latest purchase.

Once we move to Japan, out diet will naturally improve, then I will reduce my reliance on supplements, to reflect our improved diet.

I mainly supplement with herbs, that are not common in our diet anyway, try and stay away from pills *old school, in favor of powders that are closest to its most natural form.

*copied from Good Green Stuff website.

"The real power of Good Green Stuff is in its high concentration of  fruits, berries, vegetables, green algae, and herbs: – a potent blend of  nutrient-rich and high antioxidant superfoods. This is REAL FOOD, RAW  and ALIVE as nature intended, not a synthetic multi-vitamin. It’s  NUTRITION that your body recognizes and can use"

I reckon Good Green Stuff would win over even the ever cynical TC... best Kiwi health food product by far IMHO... not cheap though.

TC, honest question... have you ever taken any supplements? oh, with respect, are you a lady or a man?

Do you concede the Propolis we bought today, has any health benefits whatsoever? that's 210 capsules of honeybee pure goodness, 6 months supply. Or we would have been better off buying a bag of spuds and carrots? *not that we didn't buy tatties and carrots...

----------


## ENT

I'd eat natural products instead of manufactured or derived supplements if I could find such unpolluted foods, which are a rarity on the open market, these days.

I eat locally grown, organic Thai greens,_ cha om, chiang da_ and _pak bung_, some hill grown black rice at times and purple sweet potato along with oats, assorted nuts and seeds, thick skinned fruits, organic free range eggs, some free range organically fed chicken, sardines, Kiwi or Oz whey powder and gelatine, live yoghurt, and milk, so keeping inorganic chemical pollution in my food to an acceptable minimum.

Selenium, iodine and magnesium as well as Vits B and C are my only necessary added 'supplements' as such, not to mention a few simple herbs.

----------


## rickschoppers

All sounds very healthy ENT. How is your energy level?

----------


## ENT

Damned good really, stamina's good, no lack of sleep, don't get tired out during intense workouts and training, endurance is grand as I eat enough carbs pre-workout.

BP the other day at 115/65 pulse 60 at rest, no muscle spasms in legs or arms, unless I neglect my potassium (bananas) or magnesium (veges and nuts plus magnesium tablets). I need to source magnesium chloride liquid. Any clues where to score the stuff in Thailand?

Vit B3 as nicotinamide's OK for ATP production, but I really want nicotinic acid, unavailable in Thailand, so far, so will have to make it myself from organic tobacco,..the missus, a serologist, thinks it's a grand idea so look's like we'll be growing our own baccy ....soon, I hope, in a sterile environment, pots suspended and covered in a tunnel/greenhouse to avoid tobacco beetle and tobacco mosaic virus, using collected rain water and sterilized home made compost with organic chook shit fertilizer, a 3 month crop.

Next step is full production of Nicotinamide riboside, finally got the production method worked out.

----------


## rickschoppers

Definitely a good hobby to take up here in Thailand. One's health and growing supplements can only benefit the individual. All I do at the moment is try and eat healthy and stay stress free.

----------


## tomcat

> TC, honest question... have you ever taken any supplements?


Yes, I'm taking Vitamin D now as a recent blood test indicated a deficiency...used to take a daily vitamin decades ago until my family doctor said I was making expensive urine; he suggested I maintain a balanced Med diet and never give nutrition another thought unless tests indicated a problem: wise advice, imo...



> are you a lady or a man?


...which do you prefer? I have an accommodating wardrobe...



> Do you concede the Propolis we bought today, has any health benefits whatsoever?


I have no idea...but I do maintain a healthy skepticism concerning the extravagant claims declared by the folks, besandaled or in business suits, about their various products...very much like "organic" produce: doesn't pass my smell test...

----------


## NZdick1983

Good input, TC.

There are tens of thousands of supplements, herbs, tonics, etc... some would have negligible health benefits, some have modest, and some have incredible health benefits. 

I do believe the power of nature/herbs, etc... can be equally, or more powerful than pharmaceuticals. However, both massive profitable industries are contaminated with deceit, lies, mistruths... it's up to us, to educate ourselves into making wise health decisions for ourselves... (cue violin) dance kitty, dance... :bananaman: 

TC... I swear, I think I am the only fool who still doesn't know your sex  :Sad:  

it puts me at a huge disadvantage. You have a gender neutral writing style - very endearing BTW... (I guess woman).

----------


## tomcat

> TC... I swear, I think I am the only fool who still doesn't know your sex  
> 
> it puts me at a huge disadvantage.


Don't be silly...think of the surprise after cocktails...

----------


## ENT

> Definitely a good hobby to take up here in Thailand. One's health and growing supplements can only benefit the individual. All I do at the moment is try and eat healthy and stay stress free.


Interesting and welcome feed back.

Food is medicine, so is regular and adequate exercise and non-artefact stress reduction, such as calm reflection on things, such as meditation.

Keep smiling.   :Smile: 

By the by, have you read anything about NRiboside?
The manufacture and sales/promo side of things is a right bit of skull-duggery, as the final product is horribly overpriced.

I used to work in credit control at ER Squibb, Olin Matheson's pharmacetical base in UK as a young fella. It was an eye opener, as I had to cross link with bought ledger/incoming goods, and the costs dept, the cashier's desk, the comptometer operators and our office comptroller, a guy with a photographic memory who I learned to rely on if incorrect data popped up.                                       

I had to feed all daily calculations (done with pencil on paper and aided by a little adding machine) to our new IBM 500 computer dept. ( a big room full of frames, the search engine was an electric motor driven contraption that ran the length of the room on railway tracks) one of only three such computers at the time in UK, which could never come up with a 0 balance.

Being an adept numbers cruncher I was tasked to sort out the aberrant miscellaneous ledger, which I'd identified as the source of the yearly budgetary shemozzle, 12 years of miss-accounting, cracked it in three days, so given a wage rise, then sacked and rehired with another wage rise, promoted to a salaried position as manager, all in the same day.  

Company profits were then approx 36:1 of cost of production, on average, for all of Squibb's products, so you can understand where I come from with my anti Big Pharma stance.

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## rickschoppers

Can't say that I have read much on NRiboside, but let me do some research.

I agree that pharmaceutical companies charge way too much for their products, particularly in the US. I always got the R/D lecture when questioning cost and that wore off after being in the pharmacist business a couple of years. Yes, it does cost quite a bit of money to develope a new drug and then go through all the extensive testing that the FDA requires before allowing it to be sold. My question always was why isn't the cost of that drug reduced after all costs are recovered? No drug rep could ever give me a strait answer in 34 years, so the R/D answer about cost never cut the mustard with me.

Nutrition is a large part of our curriculum in the US and pharmacists are often asked questions about supplements in the US as well. This is why I am interested in the topic and seek out additional information that I was not told in the past. I am not sure how other countries handle this issue, but here in Thailand it seems to be a combination of Chinese medicine and local folklore. I am interested in both since it is a different approach than what I was taught. I personally believe that there are several ways to approach the health and nutrition question and I am always on the lookout for logical and effective alernatives. There is no such thing as one shoe fits all, so each of us needs to seek out what works best for one's self.

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## tomcat

...an interesting read about vitamin D leads me to reconsider taking a supplement:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/h...an-region&_r=0

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## Cold Pizza

> jing jing.. Doctors are not trained nutritionists.. they have basic knowledge on this topic, it is not their specialty.


Most doctors in the US only take 1 nutrition class during medical school.

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## ENT

Most nutritionists are specialists working in hospitals, asylums and jails, or anywhere that deals with larger volumes of people, rather than working on specific dietary disorders.
Doctors may, if you're lucky, refer you to one if your blood tests come back really screwy, otherwise the clinic nurse is probably more onto the nutritional problems you may have than the doctor is.

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by NZdick1983
> 
> 
> jing jing.. Doctors are not trained nutritionists.. they have basic knowledge on this topic, it is not their specialty.
> 
> 
> Most doctors in the US only take 1 nutrition class during medical school.


Doctors know nothing about nutrition in the US, and they will consult with a pharmacist or registered dietician if they have any questions. They are only around to diagnose and treat.

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