#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > Health, Fitness and Hospitals in Thailand >  >  Fasting

## Sumbitch

This thread is about all types of fasting, including experiences, questions and what have you.

Started a fifteen day water fast and I'm in day 3. Noticed different sweat smells for the first time today: better than usual, like the actual smell of onions, which I'd eaten a few days before I started, I guess (I actually don't remember eating any onions for a month or more). Secondly, they say the first 3 days are the hardest and 4-6 the easiest. I've been feeling fine so far. 

This fast is what it says it is: water only with nothing added, such as coffee or diet drinks. I feel confident. I've had 3 and 5 day fasts before so think I'm also prepared. I'll try to keep the thread updated and let you know when/if I fail. Or make it!!!

some links and vids:

5 Intermittent Fasting Methods: Which One Is Best for You?

Alternate day fasting (AFD) diet and fasting health implications

7 day (1-week) water fast and its Benefits | Yogic Way Of Life

40-Day Water Fast: Comprehensive Guide & Personal Journal - Preparation - Cleansing Reactions - Breaking the Fast - Ascaris Intestinal Roundworms - Book | Jennifer Thompson

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## PeeCoffee

Good luck , wjb.
I think you'll wind up dizzy after 7 days in this heat. Watch yourself.

There is no serious reason for a healthy person to with-hold all solid food for more than 7 days unless you've had a colostomy.

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## Sumbitch

> I think you'll wind up dizzy after 7 days in this heat. Watch yourself.


I'll keep that in mind as my reason if I fail.  :Lmao: 




> There is no serious reason for a healthy person to with-hold all solid food for more than 7 days unless you've had a colostomy.


As I said, all comments are welcome, including yours!  :Wink:

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## BaitongBoy

Interesting thread wj...No doubt, most of us eat way too much, anyway...And probably not the best of stuff...

Do you remember that Thai Buddhist guy who came from a rich family talking his philosophy?...Saw video of him...Think he appeared on Hard Copy or Hard Talk, or some such show...

"All you need is to breathe," he said...

Think about that one for while...When you see rail thin people in their "glorious slimness," who move fairly well and seem to work for water, you might more appreciate his words...

For sure, you will die very quickly without air...And that is "free"...So your immediate quest is for water...And that will sustain a person "for some time"...

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by PeeCoffee
> 
> I think you'll wind up dizzy after 7 days in this heat. Watch yourself.
> 
> 
> I'll keep that in mind as my reason if I fail. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  My late wife went to this place in Samui for a 10 day detox, as far as I can remember all she consumed was natural fruit juice and 1 small glass  special vitamin drink ,don't hold me to this as its over 15 years ago but I think she had enemas too , sorry not for me ,but she did lose  weight even though at 52 kilo's she did not have much to lose in the first place :Smile:  .

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## Sumbitch

> My late wife went to this place in Samui for a 10 day detox, as far as I can remember all she consumed was natural fruit juice and 1 small glass special vitamin drink


That's a juice fast. A pretty hard one at that (they're all supposed to be hard, though).  :Smile: 

Edit: sorry to hear she passed. Carry on.

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## BaitongBoy

Fook, that reminds me of the "coffee enema" craze...About 15 years ago, but I bet that "shit" is still offered at these "health spas"...Supposed to do ya good...

Anyone wanna comment on that experience?...Bet there'd be some funny stories if you'd fess up...Heh...

I'm used to drinking my coffee in the morning...

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## VocalNeal

> My late wife went to this place in Samui for a 10 day detox, as far as I can remember all she consumed was natural fruit juice and 1 small glass  special vitamin drink ,don't hold me to this as its over 15 years ago but I think she had enemas too , sorry not for me ,but she did lose  weight even though at 52 kilo's she did not have much to lose in the first place .


Can you remember where? I'll send the wife!

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## Rigger

Fasting for one or two days is suppost to be good for the body, the people that l know that do this still take some form of nutrients and only fast one to two days max every week. I can't see how 15 days fasting can be healthy.

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## BaitongBoy

^ Tend to agree with that...I can understand "pushing the envelope" for a day or two beyond, but I'd think it'd be a trip for a long period...

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> My late wife went to this place in Samui for a 10 day detox, as far as I can remember all she consumed was natural fruit juice and 1 small glass special vitamin drink
> 
> 
> That's a juice fast. A pretty hard one at that (they're all supposed to be hard, though). 
> 
> Edit: sorry to hear she passed. Carry on.


  Thanks for that WJB , yeah 4th Mar 1961 until she passed away 16 Mar 2003, 42 wonderful years and 3 Great grown up kids as a result of our life together  :Smile: .

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## NZdick1983

Sorry to hear about your wife too, bro. RIP.

Just the thought of my wife passing before me - brings me close to tears.

Fasting, is one of the most healthy things one can do for your body and general health (not just weight reduction).

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## BaitongBoy

^ How fast are you, NZ?...You in Japan now, are you?...

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## NZdick1983

I'm sitting at KFC lol... got a big farewell dinner with family tonight (yakatori)...

Strange, I was on a strict diet in NZ, before this trip. Running, weights, etc... didn't lose any weight.
Been in Japan 3 weeks, no exercise apart from walking
Eating heaps (mostly Japanese food) and I've lost 2kg

Go figure...

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## BaitongBoy

But you "worked hard" for that right, so it's all good...

You must be doing something else...Fess up, Kiwi...

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## Davis Knowlton

OP: In real simple language, why are you doing this? I know from reading other posts of yours that you're into pop fad medical stuff, but what do you hope to gain from this?

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## BaitongBoy

A new meaning to life, if he survives?...Or maybe a yellow cabbage or toffee?...

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## snakeeyes

*I fast for 5 days every 2 months just water and it seems to shrink your stomach and you only eat small meals after the fast , not mountains of food as before .
*

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## Davis Knowlton

^Why don't you just eat less to start with?

I eat two small meals a day, drink a lot of water, rarely drink alcohol and exercise daily. My weight is 81.6 kilos, same as it has been for most of my life.

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## NZdick1983

Nah, BB.. staying with mother in law most of the time (so no funny business) nudge nudge, wink wink...

Just bought mum san, a yummy birthday cake to mark her 70th bd...which we will surprise her with at family dinner tonight..

I will have to try fasting when I'm back in NZ. I want to lose another 3 kg (without chopping off Dickie noi lol)

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## VocalNeal

Have about three friends who do the 2 and 5 diet where they don't eat for 2 days a week. They say it works.

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## Sumbitch

> OP: In real simple language, why are you doing this? I know from reading other posts of yours that you're into pop fad medical stuff, but what do you hope to gain from this?


If you had read more of my posts, you'd know I'm into fitness and nutrition, weight lifting and cardio. But yes I want to lose weight firstly, detoxify secondly. 




> ^Why don't you just eat less to start with?


Who says I'm overweight? I get compliments for the way I look clothed. It's when I see myself naked that I decide I want to change my body composition fast. So I don't look anything like the "before" pictures in this vid but I do want to look like the "after".



Also, I'm satisfied with my diet and will go back to it. Mostly fruits, some veggies (that should be reversed. I hope to change that part of my diet afterwards), lean protein, high fiber, no sugar or carbs. I was maintaining my diet and then I go on binges. That's what's got me pissed off. In addition "my" diet is really not mine at all. I'd find some way to cheat more than once a week. It was almost every day at the end there. I want to make it really mine. I'm hoping the fasting will help me do that. _And_ I want to do something radical.  :Smile:

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## piwanoi

> Have about three friends who do the 2 and 5 diet where they don't eat for 2 days a week. They say it works.


  Quite obviously they are not Thai!! :Smile:

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## Lukey1979

I was resistant at first, but there seems to be a lot of positives being said about fasting.
By resting the digestive system certain bio mechanisms which might have been suppressed are reactivated, better cognitive function is noticed, the liver starts to detoxify better and so on. 
Eating 2 meals each day, and choosing 2 days per week to consume one 500 Calorie meal seems quite manageable.

Its not worth doing at all if you do not sort out your nutrition however.

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## AntRobertson

Just seems all a little complicated and unnecessary to me: what's wrong or so difficult about just sticking to a healthy and balanced diet?

That being said whatever floats your boat to where you want it to go I guess.

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## piwanoi

I once read the life story of the late and Great Light heavy weight World Champion  Archie Moore who always had problems in  making the weight for his fights ,one of his methods was to just chew and chew and get every bit of juice out of the steak he was eating and then spit the meat out , he said this was an unbelievable strain on his will power not to swallow  :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

> Just seems all a little complicated and unnecessary to me: what's wrong or so difficult about just sticking to a healthy and balanced diet?
> 
> That being said whatever floats your boat to where you want it to go I guess.


Why do you say "unnecessary"? Fasting to lose weight is the not the only motivation by far. I found a lot of links showing very fit people, of both sexes, doing these long fasts. What for? Have you thought about what's floating *in* your boat?

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## NZdick1983

I think it's some primitive biology still with us from when we used to be hunters and gatherers.

I mean, we wouldn't have set meal times..eat when we were lucky to kill a beast...then fast.

I wouldn't fast longer than 2-3 days myself, as I'd worry my metabolism would slow down... but from what I've read, OP is right...fasting is very good for your body.

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## AntRobertson

> Why do you say "unnecessary"?


Because whatever your goal - fasting to lose weight or change body composition - you can achieve it by not fasting.

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> Just seems all a little complicated and unnecessary to me: what's wrong or so difficult about just sticking to a healthy and balanced diet?
> 
> That being said whatever floats your boat to where you want it to go I guess.
> 
> 
> Why do you say "unnecessary"? Fasting to lose weight is the not the only motivation by far. I found a lot of links showing very fit people, of both sexes, doing these long fasts. What for? Have you thought about what's floating *in* your boat?


  Personally I think what you are doing is to be admired as not many people have the sheer will power ,and will power whatever the subject is in my book  a gift  that few have  :Smile: .

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## NZdick1983

^ agree... 3 days and shooting for 15! Wow..

Mad respect.. I will try for 3 when we get home.

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## VocalNeal

> and choosing 2 days per week to consume one 500 Calorie meal seems quite manageable.


Most of my said mates consume at least 600 calories per day of beer.  :Smile: 

So two days off brings them back to "normal"

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## Pragmatic

A doctor recommended that I should fast. I asked 'will I live longer'? He replied 'no but it'll seem like it'.  :Smile:

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## kmart

Fasting beforehand is supposed to be good if you're going to do a lot of drugs, especially hallucinogens like acid or mushrooms, etc.

Very popular with the gay fraternity also apparently.  ..Or is that "fisting.?" I forget.

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## BaitongBoy

Fasting before fisting?...Makes sense I suppose...Butters?...

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## Smug Farang Bore

I've 'ERR' fasted on liquid for 4 or 5 days a week many times....

Piece O piss....


Used to break my fast - face down on a table in the Offshore chippy - job done...!

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## Sumbitch

> Because whatever your goal - fasting to lose weight or change body composition - you can achieve it by not fasting.





> ^Why don't you just eat less to start with?


I guess you can't imagine this then: 


> Of course, in only drinking water for 40 days, I lost a lot of weight. In total, my weight loss was about 15 kg or 33 pounds. During the first 2 weeks, I lost most of the weight; after that, my weight seemed to stabilize and that was quite comforting actually, because my goal was to heal myself, not to waste away!


into a 40 day water fast she stopped losing weight after day 15 or so!

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## Rigger

Probably by 15 days your body would be turning on itself and distroying muscle tissue

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## Rigger

shit it starts after 3 days 

EATING NOTHING FOR OVER 72 HOURS

The rough part happens after 72 hours of no eating  this is the stage of autophagy. Once the fats are broken down, your body turns to breaking down protein in muscles, essentially wasting away your muscles. At this point, your brains requirement for glucose will have dropped from 120 grams per day to only 30 grams. But your brain will need to start getting energy from protein next. Breaking down protein and releasing amino acids into the bloodstream will produce more glucose; this transformation takes place in the liver, and your brain will be fueled by its much-needed glucose once again. Regardless, though your brain will be able to survive from protein, your muscles will slowly disappear.

Interestingly, the greatest amount of protein loss occurs during the first 72 hours. Afterward, the body adapts to conserve protein. Essentially, your metabolism slows down so much to the point that your body uses the smallest amount of energy as possible.

Your body may be able to survive for up to three weeks or even up to 70 days, depending on whether youre also hydrated or have plenty of fat reserves to use up for energy. However, at a certain point, your immune system will be weakened due to lack of vitamins and minerals. Typically, two diseases can occur in end-stage starvation: marasmus and kwashiorkor. Marasmus is a form of severe malnutrition and energy deficiency, characterized by loss of muscle mass and edema, or stomach bloating. Kwashiorkor is the most common form of malnutrition in developing countries, caused by not getting enough protein and also characterized by fatigue, edema, and decreased muscle mass.

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## beerlaodrinker

> Fook, that reminds me of the "coffee enema" craze...About 15 years ago, but I bet that "shit" is still offered at these "health spas"...Supposed to do ya good...
> 
> Anyone wanna comment on that experience?...Bet there'd be some funny stories if you'd fess up...Heh...
> 
> I'm used to drinking my coffee in the morning...


ok, I,ll comment, a few years back my wife and I went to one of these spas in Bangkok, the idea is they give your colon a bloody good flush out of all the nasty in there, they strap you in and stick a nozzle up yer  BLURTER ( quite a cute bird inserted it by the way and I got half a Johnson) you then lie back for an hour and watch what comes out of your ass in clear tubes, quite weird it was. We were supposed to come back for 4 more visits but Mrs BLD wasn't exacltly chuffed at loosing her ass cherry and said no fucking way, quite surprised she went for it in the first place as she's quite a traditional Lao bird, personally I reckon I could of got the same result by drinking Chang or some other ordinary Thai beer

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## Mr Earl

There are many misconceptions about fasting, put forth by the big pharma medical profession.

There's much evidence fasting works to cure many diseases, in addition to just keeping a person strong.

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## Rigger

> There are many misconceptions about fasting, put forth by the big pharma medical profession.
> 
> There's much evidence fasting works to cure many diseases, in addition to just keeping a person strong.


I do believe some fasting can be healthy by removing crap built up in our system and as well mentally gaining control over our body's unlike most of the population.
I just did a 5 week, fruits, salad, protein shake diet. dropped 6 kilo with weight training 3 days a week and been highly active 7 days a week in extrem heat.
In the past doing 6 days a week weight training l am lucky to see 2 kilo if any weight loss.
Just went to the pub for a few beers and the people l would consider fit looking would be 10% or less.
As a race being healthy we have failed, so something needs to change

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## Sumbitch

> Probably by 15 days your body would be turning on itself and distroying muscle tissue


It's pretty much doing that all the while. I believe you lose muscle mass and body fat practically simultaneously. 

Just look at the before and after pictures in the first OP vid. That's enough to convince me your muscles don't atrophy. I think the guy looks pretty strong at the end. One vid talks about working out while fasting. I am also trying to heal a slight pectoral muscle strain or tear and rest is the only cure for that. But I'll give some light gym workouts a try. My understanding is you feel fine before starting the workout and have to carefully monitor your exertion bc you will find that at some point you will feel very weak very quickly. Your body does require a lot of rest throughout the fast but you can work out.

The videos and links in the OP answers this question. If I reply to a question that was answered there, I will simply refer you to it, np.  :Smile:

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## Rigger

Many things come into play here, does he have a job that is physically and mentally taxing or is he sitting at home ? Does he have a family that takes up every waking hour ? I very much doubt he has either, l maybe wrong ?
I know with good diet and training you can change your body in 5 weeks with out starving yourself. Me personally not that impressed with the results showed in his videos

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## AntRobertson

> into a 40 day water fast she stopped losing weight after day 15 or so!


Well not quite stopped, just didn't lose as much.

That's quite normal though no matter what you're doing. Weight loss isn't a lineal process. And...



> Probably by 15 days your body would be turning on itself and distroying muscle tissue


...there's that too.

There's 'good' weight loss (i.e. bodyfat) and 'bad' weight loss (i.e. muscle mass). The key is to maximize the former and minimize the latter. I just can't see fasting aids that.

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## AntRobertson

> Me personally not that impressed with the results showed in his videos


Yeah me either.

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## Sumbitch

> Many things come into play here, does he have a job that is physically and mentally taxing or is he sitting at home ? Does he have a family that takes up every waking hour ? I very much doubt he has either, l maybe wrong ?


I think he's trying to make himself into a youtube star and his goal is to get 1,000,000 subscribers. This is his resume: Actor/Model/Voice-Over Talent

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## baldrick

> loosing her ass cherry





> I reckon I could of got the same result by drinking Chang or some other ordinary Thai beer


I think some of our board members have lost their arse cherry by drinking chang and some other ordinary thai alcohols

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## Sumbitch

> ok, I,ll comment, a few years back my wife and I went to one of these spas in Bangkok, the idea is they give your colon a bloody good flush out of all the nasty in there, they strap you in and stick a nozzle up yer BLURTER ( quite a cute bird inserted it by the way and I got half a Johnson) you then lie back for an hour and watch what comes out of your ass in clear tubes, quite weird it was. We were supposed to come back for 4 more visits but Mrs BLD wasn't exacltly chuffed at loosing her ass cherry and said no fucking way, quite surprised she went for it in the first place as she's quite a traditional Lao bird, personally I reckon I could of got the same result by drinking Chang or some other ordinary Thai beer


Did you lose any weight?  :Lmao:

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by beerlaodrinker
> 
> ok, I,ll comment, a few years back my wife and I went to one of these spas in Bangkok, the idea is they give your colon a bloody good flush out of all the nasty in there, they strap you in and stick a nozzle up yer BLURTER ( quite a cute bird inserted it by the way and I got half a Johnson) you then lie back for an hour and watch what comes out of your ass in clear tubes, quite weird it was. We were supposed to come back for 4 more visits but Mrs BLD wasn't exacltly chuffed at loosing her ass cherry and said no fucking way, quite surprised she went for it in the first place as she's quite a traditional Lao bird, personally I reckon I could of got the same result by drinking Chang or some other ordinary Thai beer
> 
> 
> Did you lose any weight?


  Please read my post #5 I spoke to my eldest daughter in the UK yesterday, as to how much her late mother lost in weight cos she went with her, my late wife lost just short of 2.5 kilo's and my daughter who is a "big girl" lost 3 (that was by their scales before and after) :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

> Please read my post #5 I spoke to my eldest daughter in the UK yesterday, as to how much her late mother lost in weight cos she went with her, my late wife lost just short of 2.5 kilo's and my daughter who is a "big girl" lost 3 (that was by their scales before and after)


That's not bad for 10 days. Did they keep it off? _That_ is the key to me. And how you break the fast is prolly as important as the fast itself. This is how I plan to break my fast: 


> The first step is to increase the digestive fire. This is done by breaking the fast by drinking lemon juice or orange juice. Only lemon or orange juice should be taken about 3  5 times in a day. If one feels too much hunger, add half a spoon of pure honey to the juice, to get some calories.
> 
> Continue this for the second day too.
> 
> On the third day after the fast, one can go on light vegetable soups, coconut water or fruit juice 3  5 times in a day. Some may also be able to take light milk (milk with equal amount of water), while some may find it hard to digest.
> 
> On the fourth day, one can have fruits and boiled vegetables as they are easy to digest.
> 
> On the fifth day onwards one can get back to normal diet along with fruits and boiled vegetables. At this point one has to be careful. There is a tendency to overeat and overload the stomach. One can eat smaller amounts a number of times, rather than eating too much once or twice. One should eat in moderation and slowly come back to the regular food habits.

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> Please read my post #5 I spoke to my eldest daughter in the UK yesterday, as to how much her late mother lost in weight cos she went with her, my late wife lost just short of 2.5 kilo's and my daughter who is a "big girl" lost 3 (that was by their scales before and after)
> 
> 
> That's not bad for 10 days. Did they keep it off? _That_ is the key to me. And how you break the fast is prolly as important as the fast itself. This is how I plan to break my fast: 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  As far as I can remember my late wife stayed more or less the same weight all her life, 'having said that she worked out every day even when on our holidays abroad  , and even when she was pregnant and ate a very well balanced diet with not too much red meat and neither drank or smoked .

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## Sumbitch

> As far as I can remember my late wife stayed more or less the same weight all her life, 'having said that she worked out every day even when on our holidays abroad , and even when she was pregnant and ate a very well balanced diet with not too much red meat and neither drank or smoked.


You're going to make me start crying. Seriously. The grief is still deep, isn't it?

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## BobR

Every doctor I've heard, either speaking or online has said that crash diets, fasting 
and detox programs offer absolutely no medical benefit.  

Might you consider doing some reading of quality medical literature before continuing this? 

Good luck and don't get dehydrated, that can be hell in this heat.

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> As far as I can remember my late wife stayed more or less the same weight all her life, 'having said that she worked out every day even when on our holidays abroad , and even when she was pregnant and ate a very well balanced diet with not too much red meat and neither drank or smoked.
> 
> 
> You're going to make me start crying. Seriously. The grief is still deep, isn't it?


  Hey thanks for the thought WJ , my grief has long since turned to love ,and although I have started life a new here in Thailand hardly a day goes by that she is not in my thoughts , luckily for me there is no animosity with my Thai wife and my 3 grown up kids think the World of her as she does them ,life goes on as they say, about a month before she passed away she give me this little card with her photo on one side and this on the other , whether she made the poem up herself I have no way of knowing but I'd like to believe she did ,
 Love me me now as you've loved me before 
I've gone through the doorway but don't shut the door
for if you shut the door it will keep us apart 
my voice won't be heard deep in your heart 
for the handle you see is on your side  
and to open or close it you must decide 
if you leave it open the love can pass through 
from you to me and from me to you 
so  keep that door open let my memory live on 
don't ever believe that the real me has gone 
for once you believe that I will cease to be 
you'll be closing that door and turning the key 
so get on with your life you have much to do 
Don't forget me for I won't forget you 
and although our rooms are on different floors 
we can talk to each other through that open door  


I still have that card and her photograph right here now in front of me  :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

> Every doctor I've heard, either speaking or online has said that crash diets, fasting 
> and detox programs offer absolutely no medical benefit. 
> 
> Might you consider doing some reading of quality medical literature before continuing this? 
> 
> Good luck and don't get dehydrated, that can be hell in this heat.


How did you find out I didn't do any reading of quality medical literature before continuing this? I'll quote this from Webmd after googling "is fasting healthy". I quote this complete bullshitter from the top of the page: 


> "Fasting is not a weight loss tool. Fasting slows your metabolic rate down so your diet from before the fast is even more fattening after you fast," says Joel Fuhrman MD, author of Eat to Live: The Revolutionary Plan for Fast and Sustained Weight Loss and Fasting and Eating for Health.


 That is correct. Fasting slows the metabolism, which includes digestion, and on a water fast the digestive system will come to a complete stop. Do you know what percentage your metabolism is usually concerned with digestion? Even a juice diet activates the digestion system. If the digestive system is shut down, the metabolism has more energy to combat short and long term illnesses, even injuries. There are miraculous stories of fantastic and permanent cures, as well as weight loss, following a water diet.

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## BaitongBoy

Piwanoi, that's a beautiful reminder...Cheers...

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## piwanoi

> Piwanoi, that's a beautiful reminder...Cheers...


 I have kept that card with the poem and her photo on in my drawer ever since I arrived here in Thailand Nov 17 2003  :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

> Originally Posted by BaitongBoy
> 
> 
> Piwanoi, that's a beautiful reminder...Cheers...
> 
> 
>  I have kept that card with the poem and her photo on in my drawer ever since I arrived here in Thailand Nov 17 2003


I greened you just now, piwanoi, for that poem and even though I didn't read the post fully and discover myself there was a beautiful poem in it, ya can't red me for that, can ya?  :bananaman: 

Anyway, I kept on with my stupid fasting remark, didn't I? And finding out you have another wife and family now is keeping the tears from rising.

BB, your post of appreciation is the best post, by any forum member this year, IMNSFHO.  :WeAreNotWorthy: 

That's all I can do to apologize for my ignorance. So I'm going to repost just the poem here in all it's beauty:



> Love me me now as you've loved me before 
> I've gone through the doorway but don't shut the door
> for if you shut the door it will keep us apart 
> my voice won't be heard deep in your heart 
> for the handle you see is on your side 
> and to open or close it you must decide 
> if you leave it open the love can pass through 
> from you to me and from me to you 
> so keep that door open let my memory live on 
> ...

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by BaitongBoy
> ...


  No probs ,WJ ,keep up the good work  :Smile:

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## piwanoi

Hey WJ, I have sent you a PM  :Smile: .

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## NZdick1983

That poem touched me, bro.

Lucky I'm wearing dark glasses anyway. Easy to hide a tear or 2.

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## piwanoi

> That poem touched me, bro.
> 
> Lucky I'm wearing dark glasses anyway. Easy to hide a tear or 2.


  Are they the same dark glasses you used to wear after your Muay Thai fights ? :Smile:

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## NZdick1983

55 nah, I am proud of my scars/bruises...win lose or draw.

I just read your poem to my wife.. her dad passed away when she was 27 (cancer). One of the very few times I've seen her tear up. Very strong woman (much, much stronger than me) 55

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## Sumbitch

> Hey WJ, I have sent you a PM .


About Baking Soda??? WTF?

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> Hey WJ, I have sent you a PM .
> 
> 
> About Baking Soda??? WTF?


  My daughter who's a professional dietician swears by it , also I have been proscribed it too but in tablet form  :Smile:  .

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## Dillinger



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## Sumbitch

15 day water fast update: day 5

Been feeling good practically all day. Learned what true hunger is: it's felt in the mouth and throat. That's the sign to quit. It's after that point that you start starving yourself. Hunger pangs in the stomach, no matter how much they hurt, shouldn't stop you. I haven't even been feeling hunger pangs.

Read one forum thread where a poster said he is in day 16 of a 21 day water fast and he started feeling true hunger on day 14 even though he knows exactly what it means. Another poster commented that feeling true hunger after only 14 days was unusual. He claimed most people don't start feeling it until about day 30-40. Nice to know how it is supposed to feel. 

Exercise other than walking, i.e., anything strenuous like lifting weights, is out of the question for the duration. However, today it felt like I could have but I have a strained pectoral muscle and upper body lifting most likely won't be considered until after the fast is over, however it should end. Anyway, curious how long I will be able  to walk for before feeling really weak. Will have to stay close to home. Also, heard a recommendation to take no more than 10 minute walks. We'll see.  :Wink:

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## Sumbitch

^^ Dilly, it's a good thing I don't eat red meat. Muah.

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## piwanoi

^55 years ago as a young kid I used to work with a guy who had been taken a prisoner by the Japanese and was incarcerated in Changi jail in Singapore the symptoms he felt which he told me about whilst he was a guest there was similar to what you will be feeling at the end of your fast   :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

However, I don't think I'm going to invite any mosquitoes or other pestilential creatures to keep me company.

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## Dillinger

I had a friend who did that water diet. he's dead now, no kidding.  

When he was doing that diet he mentioned he couldn't concentrate and was hallucinating. He lost about 6kgs in about a week though.

Stupid idea if you ask me.

I bought 5 days worth of a detox juice diet. You get 6 juices a day I think I managed 2 days before stuffing my boat :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

Likesay, it's a highly debated and controversial subject. Therefore, I won't argue if fasting is healthy.

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## Dillinger

Why not stop drinking water as well, 70% of your body is water.

Some people have gone 8-10 days without it.

These bodybuilders who turn up for competitions dont drink anything the day before to make their muscles stand out.

Or maybe just stop being such a vain bastard :Smile:

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## Jackanapes

As a fat bastard of over 100kg (at 1 meter 80 in height) I'm beginning a new two meal a day regime (skipping dinner). A daily mini-fast of sorts. I've done this before with quite good results. Probably gonna have to stick with it for the rest of my life.....

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## piwanoi

> Why not stop drinking water as well, 70% of your body is water.
> 
> Some people have gone 8-10 days without it.
> 
> These bodybuilders who turn up for competitions dont drink anything the day before to make their muscles stand out.
> 
> Or maybe just stop being such a vain bastard


 FFS  :rofl:

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## Sumbitch

> Why not stop drinking water as well, 70% of your body is water.
> 
> Some people have gone 8-10 days without it.
> 
> These bodybuilders who turn up for competitions dont drink anything the day before to make their muscles stand out.
> 
> Or maybe just stop being such a vain bastard


I firmly believe in hydration. It's rule #1, even if I don't practice it perfectly every day.

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## Sumbitch

> Probably gonna have to stick with it for the rest of my life.....


That's the very best attitude and attitude is the most important aspect of success.

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## Jackanapes

Well success must wait it seems. Was a bit peckish. Might start that regime tomorrow  :smiley laughing:

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## Jackanapes

Damn you greened me for that comment as well. Feel bad now

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## piwanoi

How ya feeling WJ? still determined to see it out to the bitter end? :Smile:  , personally I admire your will power , but at the end of the day I doubt in the long term it will do you any real physical  good  .

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## Sumbitch

Halfway to 15 and feeling fine. I now understand that hunger pangs (in the stomach) are not real indications of true hunger. True hunger is felt in the mouth and throat _like_ thirst. And that's the sign to quit because you're beginning to starve yourself. Luckily a fasting thread opinion is that true hunger doesn't occur in most people until day 30 or 40. One guy, though, in day 16 of a 21 day fast, said he started feeling true hunger on day 14, even though he's fully aware of the symptoms and the meaning of his actions. IMO, he probably had done some recent long fast(s). A long fast requires a long wait before the next. I wonder if anybody considers there to be any kind of benefit to fast beyond that point. The Bobby Sands movie alone is enough to scare me off of that thought. 

As far as it doing me any physical good, I believe it's a mind-body thing and consider the cleansing process of the mind and body as the most important goal. So, if successful, by which I mean I'm happy with the results, I plan to include it in my lifestyle, going forward.  :Wink:

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## BaitongBoy

Looks like you have enough fortitude to keep posting on TD...If we don't hear from ya, blaney, should we call anyone?...

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## Sumbitch

No, just call me...a quitter.  :Sad:

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## Munted

I've been doing a semi-fast of eating only within a 5 hour time period of 24. So for 19 hours of every 24 I'm not eating. I've been doing this for nearly a year relatively successfully at about 80%. I was into the Paleo diet before it became big so my semi-fast is just a variation of this. Having one meal in 24 hr allows you to manage your macro nutrients  intake much easier. I eat about 20 gram of pita bread per day more than what I should but fuck it you got to live on the wild side sometimes.

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## Sumbitch

> I've been doing a semi-fast of eating only within a 5 hour time period of 24. So for 19 hours of every 24 I'm not eating. I've been doing this for nearly a year relatively successfully at about 80%. I was into the Paleo diet before it became big so my semi-fast is just a variation of this. Having one meal in 24 hr allows you to manage your macro nutrients intake much easier. I eat about 20 gram of pita bread per day more than what I should but fuck it you got to live on the wild side sometimes.


What you are doing is called Intermittent Fasting and one meal in 24 hours is called The Warrior Diet. They are highly recommended and I strongly encourage you to continue, confident that you're doing the right thing.  :Wink:  

How do feel overall? Any emotional, physical, mental changes that you either approve of or don't? Was there a timeline for these changes-at the start a year ago, during the first two weeks, after the first 3 months and 6 months and currently? 

Good to hear from you! 

Chok dii cop!

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## Munted

To be honest the book I read wasn't the warrior diet it just suggested to do IF and  in the eating window you could eat any food you might fancy.  This allowed me a version of Paleo but like a slacker variety.   What really motivated me was the Buddhist belief that greed  leads to suffering. I would go to the supermarket & see these obese  people waddling around, naive to the advertising messages which encouraged them to consume sugar and carb, loading up their carts with junk, so  blind to the damage they were doing to themselves. They were just so ignorant to the cause of their condition.  Since embarking on this experiment I do feel more in control of my emotions, much more mindful of what might get me into trouble. I'm now able to create a pause before getting into an action I might regret, and to use that pause to consider other less harmful ways to resolve the situation. So, much greater clarity of emotional reaction. Regards physical, I have am  just below 'healthy' weight BMI of 55 Kg. The majority of my  workplace colleagues are obese or near to it and many are diabetic. I do nearly no exercise but a number of my colleagues suffer from the illusion that they should & so subject themselves to the gym when actually they should restrict themselves to food intake. It just needs a little self-discipline.

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## Sumbitch

I should have clarified the warrior diet as eating one meal in 24 hours. How long does it take you to eat a meal? It should be more than .5 hour and not longer than 1 hour or 1.25 hours, IMO, for this diet. So there is no window, as such. Eat as much as you like in that one meal.

_Your_ eating window is 5 hours. Therefore, that is intermittent fasting. Sorry for the confusion but, still, good on ya!

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## Munted

Thanks for clarifying that. Of course I'm not eating continuously during that time just a small meal to begin with and towards the end of it a snack of cheese or some other protein. I will look into the warrior diet.

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## PlanK

Been fasting every Monday for the last 8 months.  It was tough at first.  I started with 6 hours after waking and worked it up to a total of 24 - 36 hours depending on life circumstances.  For me it's about balancing the excesses of the weekend.  Initial side effects were short bouts of nausea and euphoria.  Now I feel almost nothing, never feel hungry, only break the fast because can't see any health benefits from going longer.  I still take a greens drink in the morning and magnesium and salt with plenty of water during the day because I still need to work, study, workout. 

There's a good book about fasting you can buy/steal from the interwebs called Eat Stop Eat.  The author recommends no more than 24 hours.  He has some interesting studies he refers to showing short fasting has nil effect on workout performance or hormone levels.

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## BaitongBoy

I'm on a seafood diet...I see food and I eat it...

Seriously, I don't eat much and I think the food I eat is healthy enough...Drinking lots of fluids...Enjoy my coffee very much...Can easily go for a long time past initial "pangs" of hunger...And when I eat, it's just a little, and I give it time to "settle"...Often find that that little bit was plenty, when I could've scarfed plenty more, at least five times more, even...But I've always had a strong, athletic body and have always been moving, moving, whether it's been competitive sports or simply a walk in the park...

Could always eat anything, and as much as I wanted, with no weight gain...Even lying around like a slob for a few years only slightly changed the muscle tone; however, the cardiovascular functioning was at a low...

That changes slightly as you get older, of course...But I agree with Munted...I try to look at the bigger picture...I feel almost ashamed to over-eat when some have nothing at all...And the greed factor...And the waste factor...

All you need is to breathe...

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## Munted

> Eat Stop Eat.


Will look into this. I found meditation quite useful . Take that reluctance you might feel & challenge it directly. How does it feel? Explore it. Experience it. You will find such sensations as hunger come and go, and unless you are in an exceptionally dire life-threatening situation, you will welcome the coming of the sensation as you will know there is an end to it. Everything is impermanent including culturally-induced  hunger.

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## billy the kid

> was the Buddhist belief that greed leads to suffering.


just a cotton pickin mo.  it'a trick Munted.

It's Buddhism that leads to suffering.  Its another Mandy Rice Davies moment.
Tho not nice to be seen as a greedy bastard.
Those monks know it too. or kid themselves.




> little self-discipline.


means self learning.

Hey eat when you're hungry.  And only then. bit o exercise. 

Its thought that tempts you; so ignore it and it will get the message. eventually.

If drinker, smoker, or toker best to keep the tummy turning over a lil.     :Yup: .

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## BaitongBoy

> It's Buddhism that leads to suffering


Heh...

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## billy the kid

Usual intention is to get you to hand over any spare
dosh you don't need to a worthy cause like THEM.     :Smile:  or temple.

Guys have handed over fortunes believing this bs.
Buddhism is not the only culprit.

Dress those guys up in a 3 piece suit , shirt and tie, put some hair on their heads
and they'll look like gangsters.       :Smile: 

Your own body is the only Temple to look after.

Not saying not to give to a worthy cause.

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## BaitongBoy

I hear you, billy...Of course, in my walkabouts, I have ended up at the small temple on the beach in Cha Am...I walk past it and watch the fishing boats down at the waterfront...On my way back, one day, a monk called me over and invited me in...

Pleasant enough guy...Was a fisherman all his life, but had been with the temple for the last ten years...But I knew what was coming...He gave me a bottle of water and sat me down in the Animal Room...I also got a wristband and then another...For a friend...

When he casually said that they accepted donations and that he could handle them, I didn't respond and hoped it was over...After the second time, I told him I had no money...I might've had a couple of hundred baht in bills...Don't carry my wallet here...

Finally, near the end of the visit, he looked me in the eye and questioned me: "So, you don't have any money?" with a sly smile...Simply looked him in the eye smiling no, kawtoad, I don't...

I enjoyed that visit...I had the time, the place was very peaceful, and I learned that the "trophy room" of animal heads was a tribute room where farmers remembered favoured animals...

However, the visit was ruined by his persistence in asking for money, and basically confronting me the last time...I swear he was like an old ex of mine who could smell money on me and know which pocket it was in and had concluded how much I was packing every single time within 5 baht...

But I slinked out with my breakfast money, water and a couple of wristbands...

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## Sumbitch

> Originally Posted by Munted
> 
>  was the Buddhist belief that greed leads to suffering.
> 
> 
> just a cotton pickin mo.  it'a trick Munted.
> 
> It's Buddhism that leads to suffering.  Its another Mandy Rice Davies moment.
> Tho not nice to be seen as a greedy bastard.
> ...


My religion is Vedanta (Hinduism). I was instructed by American monks of the Vedanta Society in Orange County, CA at the Trabuco Canyon Monastery in the Cleveland National forest: Web site Ramakrishna Monastery, Trabuco Canyon - Vedanta Society of Southern California When I passed the final, I was given a guru:


> Swami Swahananda (29 June 1921  19 October 2012) who was a senior monk of the Ramakrishna Order of India, and the minister and spiritual leader of the Vedanta Society of Southern California from 1976 to 2012. From Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Swahananda)


 And a book he wrote: Go Forward: Letters of Swami Premeshananda by Swami Premeshananda ? Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists He also initialized (baptized) me into the order.

He taught me suffering is man's fate, but being miserable is man's choice. That may seem like a difference without a distinction but here are the definitions: 


> As nouns the difference between misery and suffering is that misery is great unhappiness; extreme pain of body or mind; wretchedness; distress; woe while suffering is the condition of someone who suffers; a state of pain or distress.


Billy, your reply to Munted's other quote is so funny it's greenworthy.  :Lmao:

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## Sumbitch

> Your own body is the only Temple to look after.


Modify that to "Your own mind-body is the only Temple to look after." and I agree 100%.

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## billy the kid

> "Your own mind-body is the only Temple to look after."


What needs to be understood.

Is your mind free and by free i mean not touched by any man-made doctrine.
Most of us are born into it and have no choice in the matter.
And any religion that is organised prevents, blocks out what is spiritual.
It's never ever the real. And the human does have a religious 'Mind'.
But like i say;  it is blocked by man-made doctrine.
Which is always the past operating.  And thought is the past also.
You have to stand alone which for some may seem scary but fear not.

But we have had this conditioning for 100s, 1000s of years.

To free your'self' from all this is real Freedom.
And you can only know yourself in the 'Now'.

Hey i know this ain't easy.

Thought has its place but let's face it; it never shuts the fuck up and that's our problem.     :Yup: 

Attention is all and being 'aware' when thought butts in uninvited.
Thought is a Control merchant and has its place when needed.

Gurus tapping this market have profited big time.

A true wise man will never ask you to follow, never.

So you can do this on your own and for the rest of your life.

And this is real Freedom.      :Smile:  

Do it walking in the street; use your eyes, ears , nose,  without thought operating
as it usually judges, compares, all that mularky.
Same when talking to someone; give them respect by giving your full attention and not listening through your own noise or thoughts.

Get my drift.    Follow nobody, nothing.

Then mind-body are one.

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## BaitongBoy

Cheers, billy...

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## PeeCoffee

> Originally Posted by billy the kid
> 
> Your own body is the only Temple to look after.
> 
> 
> Modify that to "Your own mind-body is the only Temple to look after." and I agree 100%.


Is this the same wjblaney that I recall writings such as "it's a SoCal thing" regarding taking pharmaceuticals / recreational drugs to 'alleviate pain' ?   ::chitown:: 

Obviously from what I'm reading (unless I am remiss) this can not be the one and the same...or has there been a _major_ change and overhaul in your life-style , WJB ?

If it is the same, good for you to discover and walk the saner path in life. L'chaim.

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## Sumbitch

> Originally Posted by wjblaney
> 
>  "Your own mind-body is the only Temple to look after."
> 
> 
> What needs to be understood.
> 
> Is your mind free and by free i mean not touched by any man-made doctrine.
> Most of us are born into it and have no choice in the matter.
> ...


All of what you said, every single word, is part of my belief system. Any true and knowledgeable follower of Vedanta (like my guru) would agree with every single word too. I can emphasize one thing you said: "A true wise man will never ask you to follow, never.". I follow Ramakrishna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakrishna

So is it within your belief system to accept that I believe and try to practice everything you've said so far, plus can you accept that I hold other beliefs that are true to Vedanta but that you haven't mentioned?

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## Sumbitch

> Is this the same wjblaney that I recall writings such as "it's a SoCal thing" regarding taking pharmaceuticals / recreational drugs to 'alleviate pain' ? 
> 
> Obviously from what I'm reading (unless I am remiss) this can not be the one and the same...or has there been a major change and overhaul in your life-style , WJB ?
> 
> If it is the same, good for you to discover and walk the saner path in life. L'chaim.


It's 100% the same and ever since I was initialized into Vedanta in 1995. (I'm a very poor practioner  :Wink:  Shalom!

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## billy the kid

> As nouns the difference between misery and suffering is that misery is great unhappiness; extreme pain of body or mind; wretchedness; distress; woe while suffering is the condition of someone who suffers; a state of pain or distress.


With respect wjblaney, eastern systems or religions fill your head with this stuff.
It will never bring about any understanding of human condition.
Read this stuff until the end of time and nothing will ever change.
They will always have some answer to maybe satisfy your thirst..

When thought is absent, time does not register.
Yea the clock still ticks away
But in the mind it ain't there.
Only when thought butts in that you are aware of it again.

We are all programmed though we 'think' we are free.

The money merchants and religio brigade are one and same people controlling our lives, methinks.
We all live in bubbles and it is our duty as humans to burst the fuckers,    :Smile: 

It's a serious business to check all this out for yourself; to have a genuine urge to get to the root of all and it is Nature itself that will guide. It's all around you.
Idle thought can be worse than idle hands.
Only thought created this world we live in and now we're on the eve of destruction.
For what?
We gave our power away on a promise and 'In God we trust' on the dollar means nowt.
Now we can't even challenge the power without being beaten down.
The American elite have screwed the public and it is criminal.
But they get to walk.

Anyway,    :Smile:    need another coffee.

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## Bettyboo

This is the worst dyslexic fisting thread I've ever read.

People fasting are easily upset and look irritable, so their bodies don't seem to be at balance with it.

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## billy the kid

> So is it within your belief system


I don't hold a belief system in spiritual matters.

what i've said is not a philosophy or tied to any religious doctrine, Guru.

This is the whole point in my posts. Follow nobody. nothing.

You have to free yourself from it all and stand alone.
Which ain't the same as lonely. But the opposite.
The whole story is already in your head, be patient.
It's a big letting go.

Yes do your Meditation but realise that if there is any shadow of self/thought/image
operating then it ain't Meditation.  Some fail to grasp this.
All that is the past and if you want something NEW,, get my drift.
I know it's difficult.  But the proof is in the NOW.     :Smile: 

Difficult explaining this on here but you get the gist eh.

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## billy the kid

> Cheers, billy...


Thank you BaitongBoy.

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## Sumbitch

> With respect wjblaney, eastern systems or religions fill your head with this stuff.
> It will never bring about any understanding of human condition.
> Read this stuff until the end of time and nothing will ever change.
> They will always have some answer to maybe satisfy your thirst..


God Damn, Billy, while you were drinking your coffee, I had a page full of replies and links and it all got wiped out when I went to copy a link. When I returned, I was in the Bread thread. I don't find anything about that my fault or funny. Why can't posts have a save function? Now I'm really pissed and practically all worded out. I'll just try to begin again.

First of all, I disagree with everything in your quote. My mind is not supposed to be "filled" with anything. The main purpose of meditation is to empty the mind. The four paths of Vedanta, which is a philosophy and not a religion, are meditation, devotion (love), karma (work) and knowledge. Knowledge is not really defined. So this coincides with your belief that the truth lies within (in so many words). Devotees are expected to choose one or more of those paths, even all four. 

Here's a link from Wiki about Vedanta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanta It says Vedanta is very ancient and it's always been called one of the six orthodox schools of Hinduism. Notice the word "school". Is that something you don't like? I think you have to read that entire article before you're next reply. Just to make it a fun read; I don't have to believe everything I'm taught in school.  :Very Happy: 

Wow! I actually said everything I wanted to say and post it without a preview (I'll copy first). And it is as different from the wipeout as different can be. Stand by...

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## billy the kid

> and practically all worded out.


Me too buddy me too.

I had a look at the Vedanta and man o man what a mouthful that is.
In my earlier yrs i checked a lot of this stuff out, spent time in India
some of my buddies were hanging with Bagwan down in Poona but i couldn't get
my head around that. Though they all seemed to enjoy it.
It was already in my mind that a guy has to be able to live in this 
world without having to follow or belong to established movements.

And by CHANCE things started to happen. You may have to be prepared to 
sacrifice, take a chance,  maybe to risk everything (not material) because it's in your gut
to go through with certain things and come out the other end.
All shiny and new,, everything washed away to reveal something amazing.
And everyone will do it their own way.

When you do come out the other side
you will see how all the usual institutions we were brought up in
are a complete fraud and a lie.
The word Holy is absolutely nothing like its portrayed. that it's all theatre.




> The main purpose of meditation is to empty the mind.


I've said that 'self/thought/image has got to be,,, absolutely has to be 'not' operating.
Not even a shadow.  And Meditation can be anywhere ,  on the bus , walking down the road.  anywhere.

If you agreed with first post and saw how it was agreeable with what you already know
Then how come i also know the same stuff;  how did it end up in my head.
What i'm saying is if you had by-passed all that and come to an understanding in a different way( cause there are as many ways as there are people on the earth) you
also would meet me on the same level. 

It's all down to you whether you follow a known text

or set out to find your own way,,, into the unknown.

This is important.

If you want to uncondition the conditioned mind,  the judging,comparing, thought occupied with self and it is occupied, thought has to be absent. 
Thought is all your past, going back thousands of yrs, cause a part of you goes back
thousands, 100s of thousands of yrs. Otherwise you wouldn't be here now,   :Smile: 

Now i'm really worded out,    :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

> Me too buddy me too.
> 
> I had a look at the Vedanta and man o man what a mouthful that is.
> In my earlier yrs i checked a lot of this stuff out, spent time in India
> some of my buddies were hanging with Bagwan down in Poona but i couldn't get
> my head around that. Though they all seemed to enjoy it.
> It was already in my mind that a guy has to be able to live in this 
> world without having to follow or belong to established movements.
> 
> ...


Likesay, I like every word you write so I quoted the whole comment (for everybody else) but this is the paragraph I'm going to comment on: 


> You may have to be prepared to 
> sacrifice, take a chance, maybe to risk everything (not material) because it's in your gut
> to go through with certain things and come out the other end.
> All shiny and new,, everything washed away to reveal something amazing.
> And everyone will do it their own way.


 "You may have to be prepared to 
sacrifice, take a chance, maybe to risk everything". Hmmm. OK, today I'm into day 12 of an intended 15 day water fast. I actually am starting to believe I'll extend it: first to 21 and then to 30. That's max. These long water fasts are not unusual. The hunger pangs (in your stomach) end around day 3 but you have to understand what true hunger feelings are and what that means. True hunger originates in your mouth and throat, just *like* thirst. What it means is that you're starting to starve and it's also a sign to quit the fast immediately. That's me but people have extended their fasts beyond that for some reason I haven't learned yet. BTW, a water fast is exactly what it sounds like: no calories, no coffee, no Diet Coke, just water and nutriments and your regular mega vitamin should be sufficient for that.

I'm doing this for two reasons: detox and too lose fat. I've been a gym and cardio rat for 20+ years and recently I suffered a couple of serious injuries that kept me out of the gym 6 weeks out of the past nine. And I binged. So weighed in at 83.5 K (6 feet tall) on day 9 (this past Tue.). I want to get down to 70-75 (70 k maybe too low) but don't think that will be possible as a result of this fast but I plan to go back to a healthy diet and gym workouts 3-4 days a week. Running is getting harder and harder to maintain focus on (I have no knee or hip problems bc I've always run on a treadmill) so I might have to suck it up and walk for 2-4 hours on my days between workouts. I may even have to try to get back on the treadmill or elliptical on my gym days. The problem now is a right pectoral strain. It's slowly getting better and it's easy for me to tell when it will be completely healed. But not going to the gym for awhile is a big motivation for continuing the fast. Oh, and I plan to incorporate water fasts into my lifestyle, although it's very important to take the required time off in between them.  :Slomo: 

QUOTE="billy the kid"]I've said that 'self/thought/image has got to be,,, absolutely has to be 'not' operating.
Not even a shadow. And Meditation can be anywhere , on the bus , walking down the road. anywhere.[/QUOTE]

I used to run up to 40 miles a week and was still running hard earlier this year (I had a week of 40+ miles in 6 days) From day one I've thought of it as my meditation because I really felt the mind-body connection. I get through just 20 minutes of a typical meditation, I'm happy it's over and I didn't think I got anything out of it.  :Beerchug:

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## billy the kid

> "You may have to be prepared to 
> sacrifice, take a chance, maybe to risk everything". Hmmm. OK,


Fear is the barrier to get through because it's an unknown that i'm dealing with. Decisions have to be made when you are confronted with a fear.
I had 2 biggies to overcome and to do that i had to face them up.
Which is what i did and fear evaporated on both.

Now maybe i've crossed wires here.
Are you happy to be with the Vedanta or Ramakrishna movement ?
Does it give you all you need ? 
If so i have no problem with that.




> I get through just 20 minutes of a typical meditation, I'm happy it's over and I didn't think I got anything out of it.


What is typical meditation ? Sounds like a chore for you.
If you're talking sitting in a lotus position and using a mantra then that is something else. The mantra used to suppress thought. I can see/know how that calms the mind but i don't do that. I have done it but it gave me a shock one fine day and so i went after something else off my own back. Something more fundamental to get to the root of my being and then Bingo i hit the jackpot    :Smile:  And my whole world changed.
I was back with nature, i had a oneness with it and all in it. like i was literally reborn. I had freedom itself. If i hadn't conquered the fears it would not have happened.  

So in your workouts you don't include Yoga ?



> regular mega vitamin should be sufficient for that.


Don't you need to be careful on the effect they have on the liver with a diet.
I'm all for re-educating the body but that seems a harsh way of going about it as food and water are what the body is used too.
I've put my body through the mill by cycling thousands of miles and climbing hills 10 hrs a day which can be more about mental grit than stamina. but usually its 50/50.
And get as high as a kite   :Yup: 
I'm guessing you have knowledge as to what the body can take without doing any real damage to it. Know its limits.
I think you need to be careful. What's good for some ain't necessarily good for others. Only one way to find out i guess. Hip joints and knee problems you don't need.ever. 

Gotta finish now    :Biggthumpup:

----------


## Sumbitch

> Fear is the barrier to get through because it's an unknown that i'm dealing with. Decisions have to be made when you are confronted with a fear.
> I had 2 biggies to overcome and to do that i had to face them up.
> Which is what i did and fear evaporated on both.


I like fear. I don't experience it down here in civilization but I've been a mountain climber since 1999, first in Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia and now that I'm in Thailand I've been trekking high and have had one successful summit in the Himalayas. I was going twice a year until this year. My last trip was Sept. 2015. Before I came to Thailand in 2010, I was a rock climber in Southern California. Believe me, I've had my share of real fear. And it is the greatest feeling in the world to overcome it and reach your goal. Besides those are sports and you can't wimp out in front of your friends.




> Now maybe i've crossed wires here.
> Are you happy to be with the Vedanta or Ramakrishna movement ?
> Does it give you all you need ? 
> If so i have no problem with that.


Lots of remarks for such a short quote.

What do you mean by 'crossed wires here'? If you mean I'm sensitive about my relationship with Vedanta, no way! I'm a horrible practitioner. I never meditate in the lotus position. I don't do yoga. My path is knowledge and I LOVE Vedanta. It gives me more than I need and I'm not a proper seeker of what it is I do need. That's a bad practitioner. I haven't given my mind enough attention in favor of the physical world, first when I discovered weight lifting in 1994, second, when I discovered running in 1998 and third and most importantly, when I discovered mountain climbing in 1999 and rock climbing soon after. In my later years (beginning soon, if not already begun) I hope to become a dedicated devotee. 




> What is typical meditation ? Sounds like a chore for you.
> If you're talking sitting in a lotus position and using a mantra then that is something else. The mantra used to suppress thought. I can see/know how that calms the mind but i don't do that. I have done it but it gave me a shock one fine day and so i went after something else off my own back. Something more fundamental to get to the root of my being and then Bingo i hit the jackpot   And my whole world changed.
> I was back with nature, i had a oneness with it and all in it. like i was literally reborn. I had freedom itself. If i hadn't conquered the fears it would not have happened. 
> 
> So in your workouts you don't include Yoga ?


I've told you about my relationship with yoga and meditation except for one thing: my guru gave me a secret mantra which I'm supposed to repeat like a prayer as well as when meditating. 

OK, so now you tell me what it was that you "went after something else off my own back. Something more fundamental to get to the root of my being and then Bingo i hit the jackpot   And my whole world changed.
I was back with nature, i had a oneness with it and all in it. like i was literally reborn. I had freedom itself. If i hadn't conquered the fears it would not have happened."




> Don't you need to be careful on the effect they have on the liver with a diet.
> I'm all for re-educating the body but that seems a harsh way of going about it as food and water are what the body is used too.
> I've put my body through the mill by cycling thousands of miles and climbing hills 10 hrs a day which can be more about mental grit than stamina. but usually its 50/50.
> And get as high as a kite


A mega vitamin? Come on, everybody takes those. 

It's a 50/50 debate on whether water fasting is good or bad for you. Western doctors will tell you it isn't. Proponents will tell you fasting is in our genes. Our ancient ancestors were forced to live only on water for long periods of time. They'll say it gets rid of years and years of toxins, scars will disappear during, it cures multiple maladies and you lose weight. Your vision improves, your skin looks much healthier and younger, your senses are all enhanced, as you can imagine with the taste buds. But I'm not going to get into this argument. I haven't been there yet.

"I've put my body through the mill by cycling thousands of miles and climbing hills 10 hrs a day which can be more about mental grit than stamina. but usually its 50/50.
And get as high as a kite" 

I've got one thing to say about that: WOW AND WOOHOOOOO!




> Hip joints and knee problems you don't need.ever.


Totally agree. And I believe squats, deadlifts, other leg exercises to a degree and even running will prevent those problems from happening.

----------


## Perota

I don't understand the point of fasting, or of any other diet for that matter.

If you're too fat, or suffer of any other ailment that you believe is linked to your life style, by fasting you try to cure an excess with an other excess, hoping they will cancel each other. Then you will go back to your unhealthy lifestyle, stuck in a circle of excess.


Weird logic.

----------


## AntRobertson

I'm with you on that one. Not just fasting but a lot of these faddish diets etc.

Why not just a sustainable and long-term healthy lifestyle.

----------


## BaitongBoy

I like the idea of respecting food and water, and air...More in the sense that we don't really need to eat as much as we may think...It's obscene, at times, how much we have when others have nothing, or very, very little...

Their fasting is the real thing and they will go their whole lives that way...A long time, yet not a long life...

----------


## Sumbitch

> If you're too fat, or suffer of any other ailment that you believe is linked to your life style, by fasting you try to cure an excess with an other excess, hoping they will cancel each other. Then you will go back to your unhealthy lifestyle, stuck in a circle of excess.
> 
> 
> Weird logic.





> I'm with you on that one. Not just fasting but a lot of these faddish diets etc.
> 
> Why not just a sustainable and long-term healthy lifestyle.


1. That's easy for you to say
2. You obvious don't know how to walk in any one else's shoes
3. I'm with the guy who first said "to each his own"

----------


## AntRobertson

1. Yeah, it's easy to do also;
2. I do but I just don't see the point of trying to walk in shoes that don't fit and have the laces tied together;
3. that may well have been me.

----------


## Munted

> I don't understand the point of fasting


The point of fasting is to give your metabolism a chance to fully process your  food. A car analogy is apt. If  the spark plugs are getting old, the fuel burns less efficiently. New or young spark plugs burn good, so if you're a young'un  no need to fast.

----------


## Perota

> I just don't see the point of trying to walk in shoes that don't fit and have the laces tied together;



 :rofl: 

A point clearly made.

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> I don't understand the point of fasting
> 
> 
> The point of fasting is to give your metabolism a chance to fully process your  food. A car analogy is apt. If  the spark plugs are getting old, the fuel burns less efficiently. New or young spark plugs burn good, so if you're a young'un  no need to fast.


If you use proper fuel, the sparks won't get dirty. 

If you don't take proper care of your car, it won't work so well, it will often let you down and service will be costly. It's all a matter of using the proper oil and fuel and regular maintenance.  A old car well maintained can drive just as fine as a new one.

----------


## Munted

> If you use proper fuel, the sparks won't get dirty.


Spark plugs wear out. Fuel does not. If you eat like you did when you were 20, and you are 50 , you will get fat and you will probably get diabetes.  That's due to the natural deterioration of the metabolic processes.  So you need to restrict your food intake to give your older metabolism the  time to fully  process your food.

----------


## PlanK

> I don't understand the point of fasting, or of any other diet for that matter.


It  gives you more power over your appetite.  Snickers has an ad campaign  about being hangry.  It's good marketing.  Some people miss a meal and  get all uptight like the world's falling apart (seems to be quite  prevalent in Thailand).  Yesterday we had to work through lunch, I  barely noticed, others could not function without food intake to satisfy  their appetite.  And that is where fasting helps.  In the modern world  where food is everywhere fasting helps you distinguish between appetite  and real hunger.  You become more aware of the difference and don't eat  for emotion/boredom/reward/whatever it is that you associate food with.

Given, some people don't need to.
Those people will look on in bewilderment in the same way I look at vegetarians/greenies/right-wingers/people who pay 5 bucks for a cup of coffee.

----------


## billy the kid

> "went after something else off my own back. Something more fundamental to get to the root of my being and then Bingo i hit the jackpot And my whole world changed.


well you go with what you got and you go with what nature/life provides up to the point where you say fuck what people tell me or some estab sect etc. I'm gonna do it my way; it may go tits up or maybe something else will happen. At that point i simply don't know but i have an idea of what may work and so i go with it body and soul.   But what comes from my head ain't gonna work for somebody else and could be quite dangerous.
Any man who is looking to change has to do it off his own back and not listen to others. It's not a cop-out not telling you. If you are satisfied/happy with what you have in Vedanta then go with the flow of that.  
What worked for me came from my own  head and life up to that point
If you're satisfied  with what you got then stay with it.

If you want to change your life, really change it, then only you should be in charge of how you manage it.

If you face fear in a sporting challenge then it's attention to the task which will see you through.
The fear i mention is a totally different thing.
Because no matter how much time i would give to attention i have absolutely no idea of outcome. Nada. 
But i'm prepared to sacrifice because it is that important to me.

So now in my book nobody should follow another in matters of the spirit.

So you don't ask; because that is our habit; help me help me. Wanting to know the HOW, You will find plenty to help you but it is always second hand.

Get up stand up for your self by yourself. In matters of spirit.
And learn what Love really means; not just for the one , but for life itself and nature.

----------


## Sumbitch

> 1. Yeah, it's easy to do also;
> 2. I do but I just don't see the point of trying to walk in shoes that don't fit and have the laces tied together;
> 3. that may well have been me.


You are way too egotistical.
1.It ain't easy. It takes physical effort. You don't know anything about your insides, just the way you look. Every morning I wake up feeling like I just had the hardest workout of my life. I feel like a physical wreck. Just because when I get up and walk around and stretch that within 5 minutes I feel normal, doesn't mean that I didn't have a hard workout.

You're wrong, bro'.
2. You are a sarcastic asshole
3. You are two times a sarcastic asshole. One more time and you're on my red list.

----------


## AntRobertson

> You are way too egotistical.
> 1.It ain't easy. It takes physical effort. You don't know anything about your insides, just the way you look. Every morning I wake up feeling like I just had the hardest workout of my life. I feel like a physical wreck. Just because when I get up and walk around and stretch that within 5 minutes I feel normal, doesn't mean that I didn't have a hard workout.
> 
> You're wrong, bro'.
> 2. You are a sarcastic asshole
> 3. You are two times a sarcastic asshole. One more time and you're on my red list.


Jaysus, how precious can you get. If you want to do this fasting stuff then go for it, I hope it works out for you. All I did was post my opinion so I don't know why you're getting so defensive and aggro about it all (but the fact that you are tells me that you're trying to convince yourself a bit too much).

You have in fact completely missed the point. Maybe this fasting stuff is making you grumpy and cantankerous.

Ps. You may as well red me now because as soon as I'm able I'm going to red you for your little tantrum and calling me a sarcastic asshole.  :Smile:

----------


## BaitongBoy

What a surprise...

----------


## billy the kid

> .It's obscene, at times, how much we have when others have nothing, or very, very little...
> 
> Their fasting is the real thing and they will go their whole lives that way...A long time, yet not a long life...


Yes, big difference, doing it Willingly than having the reality of no food or water.
Especially when not able to feed your kids. A night-mare. Haunting looks.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Cheers, mate...Profoundly disturbing...

----------


## billy the kid

No money, no food.
In the 1800s Wilburforce brought about the ending of slavery.
Slave owners were paid handsomely to let slaves go free.
And it brought about the biggest banking crisis in history.  £18 billion debt.
In India millions starved to death while the brits sold off tons of rice.
In Ireland over 1 million starved to death blaming it on a potato blight.
But the brits also sold off a lot of other food from Ireland leaving nowt for the natives.
Today we have another banking crisis and it is costing lives and misery.
Kids in the western world going to bed hungry now.

Do we trust the Monsantos and Monsters who tried to deny folk in Flintstone that Lead was in their water.  Look at the turmoil the banking crisis is creating.
But the 1% are doing nicely out of it.

Off topic a lil but there you go.

Tell me if i'm wrong here.   Media pumped the usual bs.

----------


## BaitongBoy

I was raised on Jack London...Never believe what you read in newspapers...TD is okay, though...

Things may not be as they seem...

----------


## BaitongBoy

The People of the Abyss was interesting...

The People of the Abyss (1903) is a book by Jack London about life in the East End of London in 1902. He wrote this first-hand account by living in the East End (including the Whitechapel District) for several months, sometimes staying in workhouses or sleeping on the streets. The conditions he experienced and wrote about were the same as those endured by an estimated 500,000 of the contemporary London poor.

Speaking of fasting...One of the world's first "modern slums"...When London was probably the "center of the universe"...

----------


## billy the kid

Yea read it long time ago.. First thing he did was to buy 2nd.hand clothing to fit in.

----------


## Sumbitch

> At that point i simply don't know but i have an idea of what may work and so i go with it body and soul.


That's the only way: go for it. Failure is a good thing, too.




> do it off his own back


Nice idiom.  :Smile: 




> The fear i mention is a totally different thing.
> Because no matter how much time i would give to attention i have absolutely no idea of outcome. Nada. 
> But i'm prepared to sacrifice because it is that important to me.


Yeah, you have mucho courage.  :Notworthy: 

"Because no matter how much time i would give to attention i have absolutely no idea of outcome. Nada." You can not be talking about everyday problems. 

I can tell you that you can lose the fear you are talking about, though, without stopping how much time you would give attention to the problem and still have absolutely no idea of outcome. And I have faced the same fear you're talking about many times and haven't succeeded in erasing the fear, either. I think when you reach that point where the fear is about to begin you shouldn't have anybody around because any person should be a distraction. So I faced a serious problem today and was giving it all my attention. I'm an addict but today I'm straight. I actually didn't know what was going to happen in the next second. But I seriously *needed* an outcome. You know what happened? I forgot about the problem and the lead up to the problem immediately, not to mention that I didn't want an outcome either. What for? But know that I am very familiar with apathy and was not feeling it. No fear arrived. I wasn't avoiding it. As an aside, I think this is a natural and supernatural human experience combined because every feeling I felt and feel are natural. And, because of Vedanta, I believe the supernatural world is all around us. 

Now I admit I'm fasting, so that could be the cause. But if water fasting can make me feel like this....I'm never going to eat again! (just joking. I told you that the fast would end in one of the following ways: I quit because of hunger, boredom, pain--like not hardly being able to get out of bed at night to go pee--or I feel true hunger or I reach 30 days.) 

There could be another reason for the event today. I do take OTC pain medicine daily for severe arthritis. The first joint of my right index finger has bent towards the thumb and the first joint of the little finger has bent outward. I had x-rays and the doc said arthritis was throughout my entire body and one more finger on the right hand would go as well as the same three on the left, if I live that live that long. I started taking Tylenol, ibuprofen and diclofenac for the pain (throughout my whole body) never going over the recommended daily dosage. Nothing worked until Celebrex which is specifically made for people with arthritis and is sold OTC here in Thailand, although it might be RX in the U.S. (arthritis is easily proven also). Even though there is no possible abuse or addiction factor possible because it does not get you high. However, it's pain killing index is 3.8, whereas tramadol's is 3.9. And tramadol can give you a pain killer high. It's actually synthetic codeine. Tramadol is also sold OTC here but I'm sure it's only by prescription in the US. I have a large stock.  :Very Happy: 

What happened next today? After a few seconds of stunned surprise I started walking around my condo wondering what happened. And you will keep trying to remember the situation. That's unbelievably natural. You can't ignore a serious problem (to you). But forgetting it is the greatest feeling of joy there is. I've had natural highs and believe me, bro', like reaching the summit of a 19,000 ft mountain. I know how to get high chemically, as well. I'd say reaching some summits and some psychedelic experiences are joyful and you can get extremely high, but they may include fear, although not necessarily. It's also true that the natural high of reaching a summit includes feeling like shit physically. And psychedelic trips include hallucinations. Joyful or not, they're not natural but may be supernatural. But I got a high (not extreme), i.e., a rush that lasted a second or two, as well as the joy. I'm still joyful, although I faced the unknown more than a few hours ago. You know how I feel now? Like a different man. I didn't know who I was for a microsecond. After that point, you quickly grow up then start searching in your mind where you were at until you just give up because u know you'll never feel fear in that situation even if you remember it. If you do, fine, (I'm not referring to your responsibilities in life. You need to remember those, like work, etc. Better not forget what the boss wants, lol). Since it happened today I've not stopped being happy. In other words, the whole world is fine!  ::chitown:: 

Today is day 14 of my original 15 day fast.




> Wanting to know the HOW, You will find plenty to help you but it is always second hand.


That's bc you don't want to lead my life: offering to help me, in a general way, would put you in the lead, and me following, which is good for me and bad for you. If I ask you how to do something, something specific or even a generality, like the topics we've been throwing back and forth, it's like asking for your advice, which you would gladly give.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Jaysus, how precious can you get. If you want to do this fasting stuff then go for it, I hope it works out for you. All I did was post my opinion so I don't know why you're getting so defensive and aggro about it all (but the fact that you are tells me that you're trying to convince yourself a bit too much).
> 
> You have in fact completely missed the point. Maybe this fasting stuff is making you grumpy and cantankerous.
> 
> Ps. You may as well red me now because as soon as I'm able I'm going to red you for your little tantrum and calling me a sarcastic asshole.


Ps You're not on my red list bc this post was not sarcastic, bro'. In fact I'm going to reset your sarcasm points back to zero. And I don't play revenge reds either. But sticks and stones can break your bones and words will always hurt your feelings.

----------


## Neverna

wjb, do you think the fasting has resulted in changes to your mood? 

I always had you down as quite a jolly fellow but recently you seem to be a bit irritable (or very sensitive to perceived sarcasm).

----------


## billy the kid

> I can tell you that you can lose the fear


Fear is the baggage that comes from thought.

Hey you've had a good day.     :Smile:

----------


## BaitongBoy

So, it's Day 15 today?...Well done, wj...

----------


## Sumbitch

> wjb, do you think the fasting has resulted in changes to your mood? 
> 
> I always had you down as quite a jolly fellow but recently you seem to be a bit irritable (or very sensitive to perceived sarcasm).


First of all, I am drinking gallons of water every day to feel full. It gets real boring. So, I've been irritable. And I'm getting more irritable the longer the fast goes on. 

I do like to attack on occasion for the fuck of it too. Rant presented an excellent opportunity. I believe post #125 was appropriate at the time, although 'asshole' was a little rough. I did "apologize" quickly and I thought my post #135 was funny. 

You're right. It's true.  Usually the life of the party. Never been booked. Never have gotten into revenge rants. And sarcasm is only the lowest kind of humor. That's not a good enough reason for an attack.  If you could show me one or two other recent posts showing irritability or over sensitivity to perceived sarcasm to be my recent mood, that would strengthen your position. I'm going to laugh my ass off if one was to you bc I think I recall a recent post to that effect (don't remember anything else about it, so my conscience is clear).  :lam:  




> Fear is the baggage that comes from thought, ie the past.
> 
> Hey you've had a good day.


What you say about baggage in your mind is true. It's also true in the physical sense. The less, the better. Don't want to talk about fear anymore.

I hope you had a good day, too, bro'.




> So, it's Day 15 today?...Well done, wj...


Oops, misspoke earlier. Today (Sun.) is day 14 of 30. Cheers. Back to the game room.

----------


## PeeCoffee

Congratulations on Day 15, WBJ.

In hindsight can you imagine how stoked you would feel cooking up a meal that you would have eaten in your kitchen daily and taking it out to the street to feed two hungry or homeless persons each night for two weeks.
You could sit with them while they enjoy that meal immensely. When they inquire as to why you're only serenely sipping water you could explain the process to them and exchange thoughts and receive additional feedback or enlightenment from the perspective of a _hungry_ person.

[Note: only Day 14 per WBJ update.]

----------


## BaitongBoy

Apparently, it is Day 14...Good luck, man...

----------


## Sumbitch

> In hindsight can you imagine how stoked you would feel cooking up a meal that you would have eaten in your kitchen daily and taking it out to the street to feed two hungry or homeless persons each night for two weeks.
> You could sit with them while they enjoy that meal immensely. When they inquire as to why you're only serenely sipping water you could explain the process to them and exchange thoughts and receive additional feedback or enlightenment from the perspective of a hungry person.


That's the most intentionally hilarious post I've ever read!




> Apparently, it is Day 14...Good luck, man...


Get back to the game room.

----------


## Neverna

> If you could show me one or two other recent posts showing irritability or over sensitivity to perceived sarcasm to be my recent mood, that would strengthen your position.


https://teakdoor.com/troubleshooting-...ml#post3279256




> I'm going to laugh my ass off if one was to you


Start laughing  :Smile: 




> I think I recall a recent post to that effect (don't remember anything else about it, so my conscience is clear).


It appears the fasting is affecting your brain function wrt to both your mood and memory.

----------


## BaitongBoy

^ The Pismire is like that...Nobody seems to know why...Some blame the exoskeleton...

----------


## Sumbitch

> Start laughing


I thought we kissed and made up. Muah.




> It appears the fasting is affecting your brain function wrt to both your mood and memory.
>     [at] [at]


Acceptable opinion




> This message is hidden because AntRobertson is on your ignore list.


No he's not. No one is.

----------


## billy the kid

> That's bc you don't want to lead my life: offering to help me, in a general way, would put you in the lead, and me following, which is good for me and bad for you.


I wanted to clear this up, then i'll shut up.    :Smile: 

Its not that i don't want to be in a position to lead and tell others. Perish the thought. We have to get away from all that mischief business.
Anybody who follows, has someone who is apparently higher or more knowledgable and the follower the lower, trying to reach that higher level of the leader which probably doesn't exist. 
Its illusion.
That's all i'm trying to say,,, don't follow anybody, cult, sect,doctrine religio, guru.
You have Attention and that is all you need.  You need nothing else, i repeat, you need nothing else. You're free. That's all there is. 
'You' cannot go to Truth,,,but it may come to you.      :Smile: 

Now i'm finished.

----------


## AntRobertson

> wjb, do you think the fasting has resulted in changes to your mood? 
> 
> I always had you down as quite a jolly fellow but recently you seem to be a bit irritable (or very sensitive to perceived sarcasm).


I was thinking the same thing. That was quite the little outburst he had.

The irony is that there wasn't even a hint of sarcasm in my posts up until the last one.  :Very Happy:

----------


## Sumbitch

> I wanted to clear this up, then i'll shut up.  
> 
> Its not that i don't want to be in a position to lead and tell others. Perish the thought. We have to get away from all that mischief business.
> Anybody who follows, has someone who is apparently higher or more knowledgable and the follower the lower, trying to reach that higher level of the leader which probably doesn't exist. 
> Its illusion.
> That's all i'm trying to say,,, don't follow anybody, cult, sect,doctrine religio, guru.
> You have Attention and that is all you need. You need nothing else, i repeat, you need nothing else. You're free. That's all there is. 
> 'You' cannot go to Truth,,,but it may come to you.  
> 
> Now i'm finished.


I wanted to clear this up and then I'll shut up. What you're talking about is spiritual  leadership, innit? And I completely agree. I also know that the military, sports and every kind of business you can name needs leaders and followers. For example, in mountaineering you have one leader or maybe more and they can all take turns. But only one takes the sharp end of the rope at a time and he is considered the leader. And if you're talking about a guided mountain trip where clients who don't even know each other and are of varying degrees of fitness and experience form a team, then there can only be one leader: the paid guide.

Now I'm finished.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I was thinking the same thing. That was quite the little outburst he had.
> 
> The irony is that there wasn't even a hint of sarcasm in my posts up until the last one.


Ant, I want to remind you of the genial conversations we've had. Like on the fitness thread. I still want to maintain that relationship and I apologize for post #125. It's too late to redact it, i.e., edit it out, but I can make a quick reply to the post saying I do redact it, which I will do immediately.

----------


## Sumbitch

--redacted--

----------


## Sumbitch

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> 1. Yeah, it's easy to do also;
> 2. I do but I just don't see the point of trying to walk in shoes that don't fit and have the laces tied together;
> 3. that may well have been me.
> 
> 
> This is a redaction of the original post #125 where I quoted Ant as here. It was an unnecessary hissy fit made in a moment of anger, for which I apologize.


I have to add something else instead of just changing the post. Two and two equals four.

----------


## ENT

bloody hell.

----------


## Sumbitch

I'd like to add something about long water fasts and exercise. One piece of advice I read (although I'm sure it was written in the '50s or '60s) recommends staying bedridden the whole time. Another current article advises nothing harder than a 200 yd walk in the morning and one in the evening. I took a two hour walk last week and the next day a 3 hour walk. I was totally whacked out and hurting all over when I got home after the second walk. And, in retrospect, my body had been telling me to take it easy from the beginning of the fast until then.

But, for some reason, I got up today and actually felt like my normal self, strength wise. So I took a four hour walk and have felt fine all afternoon. But I'm not going to repeat it tomorrow, partly bc of last week's experience and partly I want to include weight lifting every other day. And I still need to rest my pectoral muscle. Today I tried 4 sets of 10 reps of modified push-ups. The muscle didn't hurt during the exercise, but when I got off the floor I felt a twinge, but nothing another rest day won't cure. So the following day I'm going to go to the gym and should be able to lift light weights for an hour or two without feeling weak. Then I plan to alternate long walking days with weight lifting days until the end of the fast. Maybe that's _way_ too ambitious. I don't know yet.

There is one major problem with physical exertion. It's going to make you feel real hungry bc of the extra calories burned. So I've been drinking liter after liter of water since noon, in order to feel full. I think it's starting to work just now: 6 hours later, lol. But it does work, so doing a few hours of exercise every day, now until the end, should prepare me to jump right into the routine by day 5 of the post-fast (you have to stay near the toilet for the first 4 days, apparently, as your system is no longer ready to digest anything. larf  :Wink: 

But I reserve the right to change my mind and incorporate more rest days than one a week.

Today is day 15/30

----------


## Iceman123

^
Great willpower and tenacity you are showing.
What was your start weight and weight now?

I couldn't do what you are doing, I can diet on one or two light meals per day and still train fairly hard.

Over the period of doing this I lose on average 100g per day -  have not done it past 3 months as I have always hit my target weight.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> I was thinking the same thing. That was quite the little outburst he had.
> 
> The irony is that there wasn't even a hint of sarcasm in my posts up until the last one. 
> 
> 
> Ant, I want to remind you of the genial conversations we've had. Like on the fitness thread. I still want to maintain that relationship and I apologize for post #125. It's too late to redact it, i.e., edit it out, but I can make a quick reply to the post saying I do redact it, which I will do immediately.


It's all good, no problem at all and no need to apologize (although I appreciate it).

I just chalked it up to you having a bad day.  :Very Happy: 

Anyway as I say I wasn't trying to demean or belittle what you're doing - and if that's how it came across then it was completely unintentional but I apologize also regardless - and good luck with it!

----------


## Sumbitch

> It's all good, no problem at all and no need to apologize (although I appreciate it).
> 
> I just chalked it up to you having a bad day. 
> 
> Anyway as I say I wasn't trying to demean or belittle what you're doing - and if that's how it came across then it was completely unintentional but I apologize also regardless - and good luck with it!


OK, man, it _is_ all good. No hurt feelings either way, no matter what ent says!

----------


## Sumbitch

> Great willpower and tenacity you are showing.
> What was your start weight and weight now?
> 
> I couldn't do what you are doing, I can diet on one or two light meals per day and still train fairly hard.
> 
> Over the period of doing this I lose on average 100g per day - have not done it past 3 months as I have always hit my target weight.


The first time I weighed myself was on the ninth day of the fast and and it was 80.4 k or 177 lbs (6'1" tall) and...oh shit, I forgot to weigh myself today. Be right back!

----------


## Sumbitch

Weighed 79.4 k or 175 lbs (6'1) when I got back. My total weight loss can be extrapolated pretty easily from the two weigh-ins. 1 k or 2 lbs per 5 days equals 6 k or 12 lbs for thirty days _if_ you weighed yourself on day 0. But my first weigh in was on the ninth. Therefore, my weight loss extrapolates to 5 + .66667 = 5.66667 k or 12-2+1.33334 = 11.33334 lbs. And my new weight to 74.75 k or 165.5 lbs, approximately.

----------


## DrB0b

> Weighed 79.4 k or 175 lbs (6'1) when I got back. My total weight loss can be extrapolated pretty easily from the two weigh-ins. 1 k or 2 lbs per 5 days equals 6 k or 12 lbs for thirty days if you weighed yourself on day 0. But my first weigh in was on the ninth. Therefore, my weight loss extrapolates to 5 + .66667 = 5.66667 k or 12-2+1.33334 = 11.33334 lbs. And my new weight to 74.75 k or 165.5 lbs, approximately


Water loss. Don't weigh yourself. Weight loss in the first few months is meaningless. Measure your abdomen and waist size. It's not weight you should be losing, it's fat.




> A car analogy is apt


It is not. The way a car works and the way the human body works are entirely different. The analogy may be apt for a 4 year old, although I doubt it, but certainly not for a grown-up.

----------


## billy the kid

> The way a car works and the way the human body works are entirely different



 :smiley laughing:   I hope they all have Health insurance.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Water loss. Don't weigh yourself. Weight loss in the first few months is meaningless. Measure your abdomen and waist size. It's not weight you should be losing, it's fat.


Truly, I've been drinking a gallon of water or more ever day to kill hunger pangs. And did you notice my weight loss is only 2 lbs per 5 days. I bet there are a lot of weight loss programs out there that will meet or beat that rate of loss. Plus, I agree I'll gain 5 lbs after I break the fast. That should include weight from water loss. Also, I agree the whole purpose of the diet is to lose fat, nothing else. If I'm not satisfied with my body fat loss (because it's either very obvious in the mirror or a trainer at my gym measures it with calipers) I'll start another 30 day water fast in a month. 

BTW, I've weighed myself twice, which was a good idea and I will not measure my weight again until day 31, before I eat anything. Another important measurement. But i generally never know what my current weight is. I allus skip weighing myself at the hospital when they check my vital signs before I see the doctor.

The important thing about breaking a fast is the first 4 days. Days 1 and 2, fruit or vegetable juices only, preceded by 2 tsps of Mucilin (3-4 grams of fiber) mixed in a glass of water followed by another glass of water. Fruit juices are very sweet which will increase the appetite, if that's what you want. I think on day 1 I'll prolly just drink veggie juice and on day 2 mix the two. On days 3 and 4 you move on to raw fruit and veggies. The most easily digestable food in those categories are watermelon, apples and grapes. I'll start with those. Plus I'm looking forward to a head lettuce salad with a yogurt dressing and olives, mushrooms, carrots, onions, asparagus or anything else I can think of adding for taste (still will be including 2 tsps of Mucilin before every meal. I'll tell you why: they tell you you need to be near a toilet for at least the first four days bc your digestive system is in shock. The Mucilin may be the magic bullet that stops or slows down the constant running to the toilet. The sooner it ends the quicker I can get back to cardio and weights. And cut my daily amount of Mucillin to only 2 tsps before the last meal of the day. This is to help you to feel fuller before you eat too much for your last meal.). Day 5 it's back to a normal diet: for me that's everything we talked about so far plus a green salad with homemade vinaigrette, and a coleslaw mixed with homemade vinaigrette also, whole grain cereal with 14 or 15 grams of fiber with sweetened soy milk, and topped with fruity yogurt and/or whole nut peanut butter (much less oil than other kinds of peanut. I've find only one brand and it's imported from AUS) and/or pure, unprocessed but very sweet blueberry preserves and/or one sliced banana and/or sliced, sweet mangoes. 1 bowl.
I also like peanut butter, blueberry, and sliced banana sandwiches on whole wheat bread) 2 small ones. One or two GNC whey protein shakes mixed with chocolate soy milk and a cup of fruity yogurt or an unsweetened banana shake mixed with the soy chocolate instead of yogurt. I also like bottled fruit and milk that tastes like a shake. 1 or two bottles. Of course, the most important thing is to get up from the table either satisfied or still slightly hungry.

Here's the no-no (cheat) list: potatoes, rice, corn, processed food of any kind, white bread, cakes, candy, brownies, doughnuts, pies, ice cream. You get the idea.  :Wink:

----------


## BaitongBoy

^ That's my complete diet at the bottom of your post...Heh...Hell's bells!...

How are you feeling, mate?...

----------


## Sumbitch

> How are you feeling, mate?...


God, I feel like it's day 1 instead of day 16. All bc I took that 4 hour walk which had _no_ physical aftereffects, except for these terrible imaginary hunger pangs. But bugger my imagination. It is HUGE and I'm constantly try to fill up on water. You know, I must have drunk 2 gallons yesterday. So here's hoping 2 more days and they're under control!  :Beerchug:

----------


## Neverna

I think you should stop the long walks and you should not do any weight training. I think it could be too risky for you to do on muscles that will be depleted of glycogen.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I think you should stop the long walks and you should not do any weight training. I think it could be too risky for you to do on muscles that will be depleted of glycogen.


Just going to talk about cardio. Haven't tried any weight lifting and your advice sounds esp. applicable to that.

My thoughts exactly but not for the same reason. Two days ago I took a 4 hour walk with no breaks. My calves and hamstrings are a little sore today, which is good feeling after a workout. The problem was that as soon as I got home, I began to get extremely painful hunger pangs. They continued yesterday, even though I drank at least 2 gallons of water trying to feel full. I mean 2 evenings ago I was right at the threshold of quitting, the stomach pangs were so painful. They have been mitigating slowly but surely today so I'm sure I'm over the hump and and am not feeling extremely strong hunger pangs any more. But I'm drinking as much water today as I did yesterday. I can bear that until the end of the fast but it would be nice to get it down to a gallon a day.

Thanks for the advice.  :Wink:

----------


## BaitongBoy

Still not a huge amount of water intake, wouldn't you say, considering there's nothing else?...

Call it 128 ounces...16 cups of water, 8 ounces per...Per gallon...

They always told us you needed to drink lots of water...Something like 8 glasses per day...If you drink 32 glasses, so be it, you think?...I think I would want to...

Still, you must be "sloshing," mate...

----------


## Sumbitch

Yeah, I'm drinking as much water as I can bc I was told you're not fully hydrated until your pee is clear. And I DO realize it's the only thing I have to keep the pangs at bay. So I definitely am sloshing. 

But when that isn't enough to make a difference to my hunger, it becomes really scary, bc I truly want to get through 30 days.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Wow...Best of luck, wj...

----------


## Sumbitch

Fingers crossed!

----------


## Iceman123

> Fingers crossed!


I think that at 6'1" going down to sub 75kg is a tad on the light side.
If me I would stop now at 79kg - all the crap must be out of you by now.

----------


## Sumbitch

> all the crap must be out of you by now.


All the crap but not all the fat. I'm 65. I can't live the rest of my life carrying as much body fat around (pun intended) as I am now. Besides your body's set point is the ideal weight for you. A young woman went on a 40 day water fast and apparently her weight stabilized after about 2 weeks, although overall, she lost 15 k or 33 lbs. She had found her body's set point. Here's a quote: 


> Of course, in only drinking water for 40 days, I lost a lot of weight. In total, my weight loss was about 15 kg or 33 pounds. During the first 2 weeks, I lost most of the weight; after that, my weight seemed to stabilize and that was quite comforting actually, because my goal was to heal myself, not to waste away!


It's quite an interesting read and she's a beautiful woman: 40-Day Water Fast: Comprehensive Guide & Personal Journal - Preparation - Cleansing Reactions - Breaking the Fast - Ascaris Intestinal Roundworms - Book | Jennifer Thompson

I've found my set point once before also. I was 29 and weighed approximately 220 lbs or almost 100 k. I went on the Warrior's diet that I've discussed before: one meal a day, eaten within an hour. No rules on what to drink the rest of the day. I got down to 180 lbs/81.64 k very quickly and then stopped bc I thought 180 lbs was the right weight for me, although I had been doing absolutely no exercising since age 25. The picture of a real bum. When I thought about that I went back on the warrior diet with no intention of quitting. And, sure enough, once I got to 160 lbs/72.5 k, I stopped losing any more weight. And I stayed on that diet for 15+ years. 

However, when I started weight lifting, I knew I would start gaining weight. Ever since then, 22 years ago, I have not had a serious plan for losing body fat and gaining only lean muscle weight. Hence my current body composition. I have a plan now: I will incorporate some kind of fasting into my schedule: maybe 48 hrs a week, a longer fast less often (I'm pretty bored with the Warrior diet, as that is essentially a 24 hour daily fast) or a 15 or 30 day water fast, quarterly, semi-annually maybe annually. 

First, I'm determined to find my body's set point. It should be no lower than 165 lbs/75 k because I am sure I've retained some lean muscle this time. But I won't give up lifting weights or cardio and expect to gain more than 5 lbs/2.25 k when I get into a normal exercise routine and a nutritional diet. However, I want to fast again once I get to 175 lbs/70 k. That's when my water fasting will be the primary concern. Believe me, it is much more like a physical exercise than something like counting calories. So I've enjoyed it, except for the hunger pangs, which seem to be slipping away again. Therefore, the 3 legs on my health stool will be exercise, fasting and nutrition. As I said, there are a ton of ways to incorporate water fasting into your diet: weekly, monthly, quarterly, etc. I am leaning towards a more often water fast than every 6 months or so. It seems to me, if the memory of the last one is strong, the less fear there will be in starting another one. Also, less time spent away from the gym and treadmill.  :Wink:

----------


## Neverna

There must be healthier and less risky ways to have a lean, fit body for someone who likes exercise and gym time than to go on an extreme diet of only water for days or weeks on end.

----------


## Dillinger

Yup, The Bulimia Diet sounds more fun

----------


## snakeeyes

*^
You need long fingers for that , 
*

----------


## billy the kid

Instant coffee, quickest result.

Takes yrs to put the weight on and folk want to rid themselves of it in a month.
Instant weight loss. Not my arena but sensible eating and exercise has to be a better way to go and sticking with it. Cut out the beer or cut down consumption.
9 month cycles and in that way you gain the habit of a healthier life style.
At 65 yrs yoga has real benefits and it gets to all the muscles in the body gently.
Soon putting a spring in your step. 
Well a few months to put the body in balance. And it does work.
Not for keep fit fanatics, pumping iron and all that.
Water diet seems extreme and could possibly do unseen damage with heart.
Also it seems a lazy way of going about it.
My tuppence worth.    :Smile:

----------


## BaitongBoy

^^ Or a "close friend" with big hands...

----------


## Sumbitch

> There must be healthier and less risky ways to have a lean, fit body for someone who likes exercise and gym time than to go on an extreme diet of only water for days or weeks on end.


Do you think all fasting is extreme, even 1, 3, or 5 day fasts? Remember I did say the online debate is 50-50 (or maybe more in your favor) on whether fasting is unhealthy and/or risky. I fall on the the other side of the debate.

Secondly, I think I said I plan to make fasting one leg of my health and fitness stool. The other two legs are nutrition and exercise and are just as important. And, yes, I don't like long absences from either of those two activities. So the best option for me would be a two day fast every week, if I want to exercise no more than 5 days a week or the warrior diet (one meal a day) no matter how many days off I want. And here's an article on bodybuilding.com that falls on my side of the debate and is about intermittent fasting: To Eat Or Not To Eat: Your Fast Guide To Fasting and offers even more fasting options.

Edit: this long fast I'm on is to lose weight. Why don't you google '30 day water fast' or 'is a 30 day water fast extreme, unhealthy and risky'?

----------


## Neverna

> Do you think all fasting is extreme,


No. It depends on the reason, nature and length of the fast. 




> 'is a 30 day water fast extreme, unhealthy and risky'?


In my opinion, yes.

----------


## Sumbitch

> In my opinion, yes.


Acceptable opinion but a little too general, IMNSFHO. Mind providing some specific dangers?

----------


## BaitongBoy

What day are you on now, mate?...

----------


## Iceman123

> Acceptable opinion but a little too general, IMNSFHO. Mind providing some specific dangers?


Hope this helps:

Irish prisoners hunger strike 1981

Martin Hurson - died after 46 days
Brendan McLaughlin - perforated ulcer and internal bleeding after 13 days
Bernard Fox - obstructed kidney after 32 days

All younger men than yourself. Be careful.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Still not a huge amount of water intake, wouldn't you say, considering there's nothing else?...
> 
> Call it 128 ounces...16 cups of water, 8 ounces per...Per gallon...





> Still, you must be "sloshing," mate...


A followup or changed answer is below, after this post:




> God, I feel like it's day 1 instead of day 16. All bc I took that 4 hour walk which had no physical aftereffects, except for these terrible imaginary hunger pangs. But bugger my imagination. It is HUGE and I'm constantly try to fill up on water. You know, I must have drunk 2 gallons yesterday. So here's hoping 2 more days and they're under control!


Oh Jesus Christ, God Almighry, motherfucking Lord! (Also applies to the response below to Iceman123.) 

I have been in a constant war against my hunger pains ever since that 4 hour walk. So I added another supplement to my fast this morning: 2 tsps of psyilium husk powder of 3-4 grams of fiber. You mix the two teaspoons in a 12 oz. glass of water and drink it, followed immediately by another glass of water, once a day, usually before your final or biggest meal, bc the effect will be to help you feel full. 

Snap! Makes me fee full? WTF? I took the two glasses for one dose this morning (about 9:30 AM) and it has been working ever since, against the hunger pangs, along with a lot of water but I'm in a much less of a panic for the water. But no way have I felt "full", just free of hunger pain.

The brand name in LOS, for this supplement, is Mucilin, available at the pharmacy and it's similar to Metamucil in the U.S. 

As for "sloshing" in water, since the Mucilin this morning, I'm drinking enough to pee a wonderfully clear urine often. During mountain climbs we just call that being hydrated. But did you know you can actually die from drinking too much water? Google it.  

The first glass of Mucilin tastes really good too, orangey. And, obviously there are calories in it. I think 12 but the result, so far, has been worth it.

So, yes, I guess it's not a completely pure water fast as a gram of fiber equals 4 calories. But if a water fast is not pure because of supplements then mine has never been a completely pure water fast as I've been taking fish oil as a supplement since day one and that contains calories also.




> all the crap must be out of you by now.


*NO IT'S NOT!* I had a leakage yesterday that only went through my underwear (one time it went through my underwear, my beautiful shorts and all the way to my coverlet). Fortunately, it's a very easy clean up. I washed my lower body in the shower first thing yesterday, then cleaned my underwear and shorts in a minute or two each of knuckle scrubbing in the sink with laundry soap. And also cleaned and rinsed off the top of the coverlet very quickly (smells good!). So I guess the anal leakage is not very toxic at this point. And it also explains why every long water fast I've read about includes enemas every day. 

Fuck that. But once again, bingo! Mucilin also claims to harden your stools without giving you constipation. I'll be taking it only once a day, as advertised, during the rest of the fast and everyday before I eat anything when I'm breaking the fast but I won't hesitate to take multiple doses, if one's not enough, to last all day. 15-20, or more, grams of fiber every day is very healthy for you.

Day 19

----------


## Sumbitch

> Irish prisoners hunger strike 1981
> 
> Martin Hurson - died after 46 days
> Brendan McLaughlin - perforated ulcer and internal bleeding after 13 days
> Bernard Fox - obstructed kidney after 32 days


Saw a historical drama movie about that hunger strike, called Hunger (2008) and starring Michael Fassbender as Bobby Sands (the first of 10 to die). The movie's quite good too. But the prisoners were all extremely emaciated, sick and injured long before the death hunger strike was called (they were really together as a group, even one guy who only had a sentence of one year). They had already had one very long protest hunger strike. And they were all wiping their shit on the walls of the cells and being beaten by the cops all the time.

----------


## ENT

Sounds ghey.

----------


## Sumbitch

Yucky.

----------


## billy the kid

> NO IT'S NOT!


I'm callin bs on this thread now ,, it really is too crazy to believe.

Are you for real wjblaney ? 

Just find it difficult to believe you'd put your temple through all this.

What's it all about alfie.

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by wjblaney
> 
> 
> Do you think all fasting is extreme, 
> 
> 
> No. It depends on the reason, nature and length of the fast. 
> 
> 
> ...





> Acceptable opinion but a little too general, IMNSFHO. Mind providing some specific dangers?


It was a specific answer to your specific question. Ask better questions if you want better answers. 

Anyway, your mind is made up. It matters not what I say or what you find out on here or from Google. You want to do it. You are determined to do it. Up to you. It's is your life and your body. 

My final comment on this is that as someone involved in sports for many years, I listed to my body. 




> I have been in a constant war against my hunger pains ever since that 4 hour walk. So I added another supplement to my fast this morning: 2 tsps of psyilium husk powder of 3-4 grams of fiber


15-20 calories.

 :smiley laughing: 

 I suspect your body needs a bit more than that, but up to you. 

Anyway, I hope you have good health insurance and have someone close by to help you in case your health suddenly takes a turn for the worse.

My sincere good wishes for your good health.

 :Sadwavey:

----------


## Sumbitch

> Originally Posted by wjblaney
> 
> NO IT'S NOT!
> 
> 
> I'm callin bs on this thread now ,, it really is too crazy to believe.
> 
> Are you for real wjblaney ? 
> 
> ...


"NO IT'S NOT!"

That's bc you didn't read Iceman123's post #171: https://teakdoor.com/3291796-post171.html. Please don't mock me without knowing WTF you're talking about. BTW, this is the first time I've actually recopied a full post as well as giving the link to it and then giving my reply to to that link. Consider yourself lucky:




> I think that at 6'1" going down to sub 75kg is a tad on the light side.
> If me I would stop now at 79kg - all the crap must be out of you by now.





> Originally Posted by Iceman123
> 
> all the crap must be out of you by now.
> 
> 
> All the crap but not all the fat.


So what this "NO IT'S NOT!" meant was that I was taking back what I had said earlier in a way that I hope got a chuckle from Iceman123.

But as far as explaining what it's all about? Sure, I'll tell you what it's all about**: self-discipline and fear. I've been worried I'm losing it and the first manifestation of that, for me, is not caring anymore in taking care of my body. I have 1 one morbidly obese sister (I used to have two until one died from complications that derived from morbid obesity. I'll never forget this quote: "I hate exercise." It shocked me because I thought exercise is the fountain of youth). I have another brother who is obese but has managed to maintain that same weight since 1973. I have a second brother (the oldest, who is 83 and just had a hip replacement but manages a fairly good weight of around 190 lbs and then there's my favorite sister and she is 6 years older than me and _does_ maintain a bmi prolly around 2 points under 25. But she has had a heart valve replacement (heart disease is genetic in my family). Unfortunately, she was born with an irregular heart rate. But all of my brothers and sisters don't believe in intense exercise and especially making it happen 3-6 days a week. They most _certainly_ have never believed and never will believe in giving up food forever like alcohol, rice, corn, cake, junk food, red meat, cookies, processed food, ice cream, white bread and processed food.

I, myself, was obese (220 lbs) and not exercising for 5 years between age 25 and 30. Then i found the warrior's diet, and sure I got skinny but, more importantly, I found my body's set point (160 lbs.) beyond which I didn't lose anymore weight: all within fewer than 6 months after starting the fast. but I didn't change what I ate, just the quantity, although I wasn't drinking alcohol. 

I started exercising 2 or 3 years after that with about 45 minutes of leg lifts after I woke up, which would leave my t-shirt dripping with sweat, then added a walk during lunch at work. I maintained that regime for about 10 years. Then I became a gym rat, lifting weights for 45-50 minutes and doing cardio for 25 on an elliptical machine. All this time I kept strictly to the warrior's diet. But once I started lifting, I knew I was going to gain weight, which I did by just eating more in my single meal. But I don't think I ever got much higher than 170 lbs and was satisfied with the looks 

I kept up that routine until 1999 when I started going on guided mountain trips. That hopefully will continue, with the last one the Annapurna circuit trek in Sept. of 2015. Anyway, my first guide's preparation list included 50 minutes of running 5 or 6 days a week which I had to work up to and then upped that to an hour and haven't really quit yet (mostly all of it on a treadmill), although for a long time now my goal is to finish only 10 k in that hour. And after ever single mountain trip, whether in the Andes or Himalayas, I always managed to come back skinnier that when I had left, even though I ate 3 meals a day during the trip. But as soon as I was back home, either in California or Thailand, I went back to my warrior's diet immediately. 

OK, so my first mountain climb to the Himalayas wasn't until 2012. And I only kept up my warrior's diet for one more year

But I when I retired to Chiangmai (2013), I thought I could start experimenting with a bodybuilder's diet, not every bodybuilder's diet by any means, but one which appealed to me: high protein, low carbs, high fiber and good fats. I knew it wouldn't be easy to get enough protein every day. I don't eat red meat and white meat only occasionally, I can't eat shrimp every day bc it's expensive, tuna bc it's boring every day. So I started drinking 1 or 2 whey protein shakes, which can be delicious, if not mixed with only water (but no more than 240 calories when it is), which is necessary if I drink one before working out. But when mixed with chocolate soy milk, and a cup of fruity yogurt or a non-sweetened banana shake, it's better than any milkshake. I found out about some kinds of canned beans that have the highest ratio of protein to carbs or fat, other than the meats and fish. They taste great when mixed with an unprocessed, oil-based dressing and is very filling when eaten alone or when added to a regular salad along with other low carb veggies. Low carbs means not eating corn, potatoes, rice, noodles, the sweetest fruits, like pineapple, although I will eat medium sweet fruits, like mangoes, as well as low sweet fruits, like apples and melons. You don't have to worry about too many good fats u eat. Like extra virgin olive oil, which is at the top followed by canola then flaxseed.

The most recent thing I found out about weight training was that single joint or single muscle exercises, like all arm curls, are really bad for you. And I have noticed noticed that_ tremendously_ over the years by the pain in my elbow joint or joints. And either worked out through the pain or wouldn't include them until the pain had subsided--not eliminated--and then add them back into my routine. But I found out I have osteoarthritis throughout my entire body 2.5 years ago. I had watched the last joint of my right index finger curl inwards and the last joint of my right pinky curl outwards within the last 6 years, I didn't have the hand x-rayed until 3 years ago when I got the bad news (of course the diagnosis was osteoarthritis) that the fourth finger would go next, but only those 3 fingers (including my thumb) would go next but I didn't bother to x-ray my left hand at that time because I simply assumed that the same three fingers would go on my left hand. The good news is I haven't seen any new curling at all in the last 3 years, even though I can feel the arthritis The full body x-ray that came 2.5 years as part of the first complete body physical I've ever had. It came back A+ in all categories except, of course, my two incurable diseases: the other one being chronic bronchitis or asthma. I hadn't noticed any symptoms at all until I came to Thailand from California in 2010. Then I felt all of the symptoms almost immediately (which feels like an extreme head cold with a cough but without the misery always associated with those symptoms when they come on all at once). But after given daily meds, which I still take daily, the symptoms all go completely away until there is another onset of symptons like the first episode bit a lot less intense (except for the cough but the coughing never leaves my throat raw in the least). The episodes are only once or twice a year. The last one was taking place as I was visiting California for the first time since 2010 but my only symptom was the cough. But this time I was visiting my family in Oxnard (all the sibs, all of his kids...six and all married with kids...and a couple of the kids' full families) for only 10 days. But I had plenty of time for my brother to set up an appointment plus followup with an expert specialist in both chronic bronchitis and asthma. That's when the subject of asthma first came up. All he prescribed and the only medicine I used every day while I was there, was an inhaler that I only had to use once a day and that got rid of the either cough either before I was gone or immediatly on my return. But he could make a confirmed diagnosis between the two options although he continued to study my test results after I had returned to LOS, and his final conclusion was "indeterminate". So I just added the inhaler to my other meds. All three daughters of my brother are still real beauties even though I watched them growing up between 1973 and 1980. One of them married a black guy, who is now my best friend forever (BFF) and he is still sending me FB messages about much he misses me. He has 3 boys and and the youngest is a girl. They are all jacked up cool and I had a hard time believing I was just as cool as the three boys and their dad the day before my flight back when the boys kept asking me and their dad why I was so cool and when was I was going to come back and live there forever? I was literally laughing out loud even though they were dead serious. At the end of the party I got the longest and warmest hug from their dad that I've ever received adult-to-adult. All these people are black Americans and I had read about the many racist experiences they had experienced in So. Cal., both from the people and the police and they all still had the truest and warmest spirits I have ever seen. And all of them go to really good, expensive private schools, are good students, play the three American sports and are all stars in at least one of them. 

Now back to my new eating routine which started in 2013. There is a Top's supermarket across the the block from my condo. So I always could get what I wanted right. It's better than any supermarket in the U.S. and always has the freshest and largest selection of fruits and vegetables in the produce, plus there's a deli bar where you can make your own salad and, ahem, the tastiest mushroom and asparagus cream soups that I tried to buy sparingly. (Sometimes I'd let them sit in the fridge until they were unfit to eat, then throw them away.) Tops was also the only place I could find roast chicken (my only mode of transportation is by foot or red taxi and I won't use that to find roast chicken).

Being free to eat when I wanted and allowing myself one cheat day per week initially, quickly brought me to Tops bakery department, cookie aisle and ice cream counters, as well as all the other bakeries, even the doughnut shop and ice cream shop, Swenson's, KFC and so on. You get the ugly picture. 

That's how it was until I got to 180 lbs. In the '70s, when I got to 180 lbs it made me happy to have lost 40 lbs and I stopped the warrior diet for a little while but quickly restarted it again until 2013 but learned my set point was 160 lbs, when I stopped losing any more weight. I went down to 160 from 180 as fast as I had gotten down from 220 to 180. But when I got up to 180 lbs a month or so ago I was disgusted with myself and started planning this fast.

Feeling great, like I have all todat has really made me love fasting. So instead of going back on the warrior's diet, I will try intermittent fasting, which may be as short as 3 days but shouldn't be longer than a week.   

As to what's driving my posts on this thread? They were either the result of the depressing effect that envy is having on me, or the result of a manic-depressive mental illness or an obsessive-compulsive disorder, or being to afraid to face people any more.

So, please don't call my posts BS because everything I said was either truly mine or someone else's opinion, a quotation or link to something I said was true or some experience of mine as I exactly remember it.

----------


## billy the kid

OK wjblaney, apologies. Wasn't meant to upset you.
So sorry about that.
Good health be upon you.     :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

> OK wjblaney, apologies. Wasn't meant to upset you.
> So sorry about that.
> Good health be upon you.


Thanks for reading my post. A bit long, eh? And I really appreciate such a kind reply.

Thank you very much.  :Wink:

----------


## billy the kid

> A bit long, eh?


yea just a bit.      :Eyecrazy:   :Smile:

----------


## BaitongBoy

Could be a record length, that post...What if you'd "lost it?"...That would've been a bummer...
Good luck, mate...
Day 21?...

----------


## Sumbitch

Day 21: just weighed myself (every 5 days): 77.6 k/171 lbs

Here's the only other post I could find about my other weigh-ins. I believe the first was on 9/6/2016, the second on 14/6/2016 and the third today (19/6/2016). The next one will be on day 26 and 24/6/2016



> Weighed 79.4 k or 175 lbs (6'1) when I got back. My total weight loss can be extrapolated pretty easily from the two weigh-ins. 1 k or 2 lbs per 5 days equals 6 k or 12 lbs for thirty days if you weighed yourself on day 0. But my first weigh in was on the ninth. Therefore, my weight loss extrapolates to 5 + .66667 = 5.66667 k or 12-2+1.33334 = 11.33334 lbs. And my new weight to 74.75 k or 165.5 lbs, approximately.


Apparently: 
Day 16 (14/6/2016): 79.4 k/175 lbs
Day 11 (9/6/2016):  80.4 k/177.25 lbs

And, therefore, my weight loss in the last 5 days was almost double (1.8 k/4 lbs) what it was in the 5 days between day 11 and day 16: 1 k/2.25 lbs. That's hardly surprising bc of the 3 long walks I've had recently and have complained mightily about. So it's easy to see where the extra calorie burn prolly came from. And  absolutely, no, no, noooooooo more of those!

So I expect my weight loss on day 26 and day 31 to be 1 k for each weigh-in. But it will still be interesting to look forward to the weigh-ins to see if any other factors (either known or unknown) have come into play. 

For example, since my body weight set point was 72.57/160 lbs in 1980, should or shouldn't there be some change to that after 36 years? I should expect so. And it will take only 5 days without any weight loss to find out what that new set point is.  :Biglaugh:

----------


## Sumbitch

> yea just a bit.


sigh... :Sigh:   :Op:

----------


## BaitongBoy

Gotta hand it to ya, blaney...3 weeks!...Quite the feat...

----------


## ENT

Two ounces a day loss or gain in weight is within tolerable limits.

----------


## BaitongBoy

WJ, are you pissing a lot?...With all that fluid sloshing around how many times a day does it want out?...

----------


## ENT

Gotta piss out more than 95% that you drink.

Drink 6 litres, piss 5.5 L minimum, I reckon.

Sweat more, then maybe piss less, but not much less.

----------


## Sumbitch

> WJ, are you pissing a lot?...With all that fluid sloshing around how many times a day does it want out?...





> Gotta piss out more than 95% that you drink.
> 
> Drink 6 litres, piss 5.5 L minimum, I reckon.
> 
> Sweat more, then maybe piss less, but not much less.


You got it.  :Op:

----------


## ENT

What's your morning urine pH and your mineral balance like?

----------


## Sumbitch

> What's your morning urine pH and your mineral balance like?


Pshaw!  :Lmao:

----------


## ENT

I'd check it out.

----------


## BaitongBoy

How many times do you urinate during a 24-hour period?...

----------


## ENT

Five or six half pints a time at a guess,.....unless y're one of those who get up for a pee at night, frequently..= see yr doctor.

Maybe  up to 8 times a waking day.

----------


## Latindancer

As far as I know, there are two issues with fasting.....though I do hasten to add that I think it's very rejuvenating for a person.

Mostly they are because of longish fasts. The first is that if it's a water fast, your stomach shrinks and it's then difficult to get back into eating.

The second (and far more serious) is that as you have no protein intake, after your body takes the protein it needs ( for everyday metabolic activities) from your largest muscles, it takes some from your heart muscle. Not good.

I think intermittent fasting is best :

This Is What Really Happens To Your Body When You Practice ?Intermittent Fasting"

Fasting For Three Days Can Regenerate Entire Immune System, Study Finds

----------


## ENT

Yup. Intermittent fasting works, usually tied to your own feelings, the best friends you've got.

----------


## Sumbitch

> How many times do you urinate during a 24-hour period?...





> Pshaw!


 :Slomo:

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 22?...

----------


## Sumbitch

yeah. And feeling normal, except for very slight hunger pains momentarily (wouldn't worth mentioning if wasn't for those days after my 4 hour walk) but I'm staying full of water. BTW, someone asked how many times I peed at night: last night once, right in the middle of a deep 10 hour deep sleep (had stayed up all night the night before). I haven't peed since I woke up 6 hours ago, so I just might be only re-hydrating right now. After I am fully hydrated, I'll drink just enough water to keep me that way for the rest of the day. 

What's new and not expected but fun. I feel really weak in my arms and legs from tasks like washing my hands, lol. So this morning I checked out my arms in the mirror, which, along with my legs, I wouldn't mind leaving the same size as before I started the fast and they were the same size and still no flab (like squeezing under my triceps and no flab and I can still show a bicep pump). Even my legs got week waiting for me to finish washing my hands, although I didn't feel week at all taking a long shower, just breathing a little harder, if that. So constant movement has something to do with the weakness. But when I walk across the block to the mall, I don't feel either of those fasting symptoms. But those are the only ones so far. And I don't feel either symptom writing this post...heh.

But I do have a weight loss goal, finding my body weight set point, which was 160 lbs      the last time I found it and is only 11 lbs away, if it hasn't changed since 1980. But proof I found it won't be until five days passes w/o losing weight. So b/c of the way I felt yesterday and today, including the looks, I'm almost 100% sure I won't stop at 30 days regardless. I know I can go up to 60 days safely. But I was at least half way to 160 lbs on day 21, which means I could get to my set point in 42 days plus 5 test days: total 47 days, prolly more than that b/c I'm guessing the rate of weight loss will get lower gradually until it finally gets to 0 or close enough to it. I really love this fasting!   :Slomo: 

P.S. *BIG THANKS* to mods for allowing these long posts, as well as the time it takes moi to write them!

Edit: I just peed for the first time since getting up and I'm hydrated.

----------


## PeeCoffee

Ah wbj, you're doing better than those cannibals who crashed in the Andes (l9l).
Keep up the good work. Maybe consider setting yourself into the Gulf on a dingy with an electric salt water conversion kit to assure your fast is in place. Rowing will provide you with some aerobic exercise as well.
Take care of yourself.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Ah wbj, you're doing better than those cannibals who crashed in the Andes (l9l).
> Keep up the good work. Maybe consider setting yourself into the Gulf on a dingy with an electric salt water conversion kit to assure your fast is in place. Rowing will provide you with some aerobic exercise as well.
> Take care of yourself.


_Thank_ you.

There is one thing I forgot to tell to everybody. The temptation that being around food, esp. smells, presents me that I think would defeat me, if I couldn't control my environment so well. Even though I couldn't stop thinking about how hungry I felt (but w/o pangs) yesterday afternoon, as well as right now. But it wasn't stronger than the hunger I used to feel every day on my warrior's diet and I used to work 8-10 hours 5 days a week and work out for 2 hours 5 or 6 days a week, always with good results, anyways. But, God, am I looking forward to eating again!

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day at a time, mate...You sound pretty positive today, wj...But 60 days?...

Get to 30 days first...It's still a solid week away...

----------


## billy the kid

What about the sex wjb. has that blown yer socks off yet ?

----------


## BaitongBoy

And I was the one asking how many times you urinate per day...Sounds like you described one day/night there where you pissed the bed, I take it?...And then just another once or twice?...

What about an average day?...Seems you'd be spurting it out at least 8 times, wouldn't you?...I suppose your body would retain some fluid, but it's flushing you, as well...

----------


## BaitongBoy

^^ His arms are too weak to wank, billy...Heh...

----------


## ENT

Years ago my pal Bob went on a 30 day fast, water with a squeeze of lemon and a spot of honey.
At around three weeks into the fast he could hardly walk, let alone pick something up.

Skinny as a snake by then, but he survived.   :Smile: 

He also erupted in seeping sores, explained them as his body's way of getting rid of toxins.
Duno about that, though.

Here's an interesting article on fasting, WJB, very informative.
Greek Medicine: FASTING AND PURIFICATION

----------


## Sumbitch

> Day at a time, mate...You sound pretty positive today, wj...But 60 days?...
> 
> Get to 30 days first...It's still a solid week away...


Absolutely true...one day at a time.




> What about the sex wjb. has that blown yer socks off yet ?


There's nothing wrong with my sex organ and I don't "wank off", no matter what BB says. But what made you ask that question?




> And I was the one asking how many times you urinate per day...Sounds like you described one day/night there where you pissed the bed, I take it?...And then just another once or twice?...
> 
> What about an average day?...Seems you'd be spurting it out at least 8 times, wouldn't you?...I suppose your body would retain some fluid, but it's flushing you, as well...


yeah, sounds about right. Maybe 10-12 times.




> His arms are too weak to wank, billy...Heh...


...heh...




> Here's an interesting article on fasting, WJB, very informative.


Thanks for the link. I'll read it. Cheers all!

----------


## ENT

> I don't "wank off", no matter what BB says. But what made you ask that question?


You need a wank (or a shag) every few days at least, to lower the risk of developing prostate cancer.

----------


## billy the kid

> But what made you ask that question?


Mate did something with brown rice and water only, to rid his body of poisons
also lasted 3 or 4 weeks.
Said getting his rocks off was explosive after 2 or 3 weeks.
His lady had a bigger smile on her face to boot.
Mind she was a beauty.
Even the Times gave her a job. Foxy lady.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Mate did something with brown rice and water only, to rid his body of poisons
> also lasted 3 or 4 weeks.
> Said getting his rocks off was explosive after 2 or 3 weeks.
> His lady had a bigger smile on her face to boot.
> Mind she was a beauty.
> Even the Times gave her a job. Foxy lady.


Aphrodisiac, eh? And gets rid of toxins? I have never heard of a high carb diet that would do that but it's true.




> *Brown Rice Diet 1*
> The first brown rice diet approach requires eating five to six small meals of brown rice each day for as long as two weeks. The rice is cooked in water with no other ingredients. For this version of the brown rice detox, no other food is eaten. Liquids include drinking eight to ten glasses of pure water each day and fresh vegetable juice is also allowed but only occasionally. Those who follow this rice and water eating pattern believe the toxins will be cleansed from their system within the two weeks.





> *Brown Rice Diet 2*
> The second version of the brown rice detox is a more balanced approach. Along with brown rice, this version recommends eating fruits and vegetables, preferably raw. In fact, homeopaths who recommend this diet suggest that only organic, raw fruits and vegetables be ingested. Plenty of water and limited recommended and fresh fruit juice is also permitted.
> 
> This version of the brown rice detox is followed for one week. It eliminates all processed foods from the diet, but does offer more meal variations that the plain brown rice meals of version one. For example, you can eat fruit and brown rice for breakfast, plain brown rice for lunch, and vegetables and brown rice for dinner. While food choices are limited, dieters are allowed to eat as much of any of these foods as they want throughout the day.





> The first version of this detox diet limits a person to eating brown rice only. It is not a healthy or balanced approach to dieting as it lacks in necessary nutrients. However, the second version of this diet does include fruits, vegetables, healthy whole grain and fresh water. It could be considered a healthy, low-fat vegetarian diet that could lead to weight loss.


Only go with Brown Rice Diet 2.

From: Brown Rice Detox Diet

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 23...

----------


## ENT

I've gone on a brown rice diet with salt, a limited amounts of veg (1 tablespoon per day) and plenty of water, and sometimes a few herbs (mint, sage, parsley) thrown in a mug of hot water.

Lasted 3 months on that.

I was strong enough on that diet to carry on tree felling and hauling and building a house, eight hours a day in the Queensland heat.

Broke my fast on a big breakfast of bacon, sausage, chops, eggs, fried potatoes and tomatoes and mushrooms washed down with mugs of black tea with sugar.   :Smile: 

Then went off to work cutting cane.

No problems.

I think the big trick in fasting is to keep up your mineral levels and have a good shit every day, otherwise, especially on a total fast with water, no solids in the bowels will leave you unable to shit right until you ease your bowels into normal function again at the end of the fast by only eating soft fruit and veges and drinking fruit juices, slowly reducing the amount of water drunk.

DON'T eat carbs like rice, flour, bread, pasta etc to break a water fast, you'll get horribly constipated. Start with fruit or vege purees and then slowly progress to soups with more body in them.

Another good food is vegemite/marmite dissolved in a mug of hot water, a big energy boost with lotsa Vit Bs.

Whatever, dietary balance is the most important thing.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Day 23...


Yeah, and kudos to you for following me. 

I have something to add about today. I was always taught not to be vain  or narcissistic about my looks and I still believe that. But I know I  wasn't disgusted with them either when I reached my body weight set  point in 1980, even though I still had belly fat. I also learned that  being obese, which I was between 1975 and 1980, will raise your body set  point. I read articles titled "you've reached your set point, now  what?", with a picture of a fat woman standing on a scale. Obviously,  the set point does not automatically coincide with your weight loss  goals. Today, I'm more than half way to that same set point (160 lbs)  and I'm still disgusted. Therefore, I will stay on this fast, until  there is no more belly fat (that's the first place fat gets stored on  most men. The second place is prolly the buttocks. That's not a worry as  I have gotten a firm butt in the gym) or I reach my set point. If the  latter is true, weight loss will still be my primary goal after I have  gotten fit again. The amount of time that takes is irrelevant. But thank  god I found a body building  web site with an answer on how to lower  your set point: How to Change Your Body Weight Set Point | Muscle For Life

----------


## Sumbitch

> I've gone on a brown rice diet with salt, a limited amounts of veg (1 tablespoon per day) and plenty of water, and sometimes a few herbs (mint, sage, parsley) thrown in a mug of hot water.
> 
> Lasted 3 months on that.
> 
> I was strong enough on that diet to carry on tree felling and hauling and building a house, eight hours a day in the Queensland heat.
> 
> Broke my fast on a big breakfast of bacon, sausage, chops, eggs, fried potatoes and tomatoes and mushrooms washed down with mugs of black tea with sugar.  
> 
> Then went off to work cutting cane.
> ...


Yeah, I totally agree with this post and don't find any contradiction with it and Diet plan 2 of The Brown Rice diet.  :Slomo:

----------


## billy the kid

> Broke my fast on a big breakfast of bacon, sausage, chops, eggs, fried potatoes and tomatoes and mushrooms washed down with mugs of black tea with sugar.


 :rofl:

----------


## Sumbitch

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> Broke my fast on a big breakfast of bacon, sausage, chops, eggs, fried potatoes and tomatoes and mushrooms washed down with mugs of black tea with sugar.


Temptation...the enemy of self-discipline  :sexy:

----------


## billy the kid

> self-discipline


In my book that is learning about how your own thought process works.and learning.

Temptation, a major/minor choice of good or evil with unknown consequences in the long run. 

But if ENT's breakfast tempts you it's probably matter over mind,    :Smile: 

like being in the desert looking for that waterhole.

----------


## Sumbitch

Self-discipline for me is the same as it is for all of national military forces around the world as well as all of the world sports: it's a physical thing and only a physical thing. In other words, you learn things, sometimes complicated things, like flying, and incorporate that into a habit over time. And since practice makes perfect, the habit of discipline can become practically unbreakable and I was lucky to learn that lesson in high school (forms 3-6), although by no means did I stay attached to the little self-discipline I attained in school sports. 

I also learned early on, through my teens and twenties, how easy it is to develop bad habits and how hard it is to break those. And I do know that this fasting is all about breaking the bad habit of overeating, binge eating and junk food again and replace that with a habit of intermittent fasting. most probably. or some other kind of fasting, which will also serve as a healing break from weight lifting. Believe me, I can feel the bad habit like a belt that's tightening around my guts. And if I quit fasting now, the belt will release but if I continue to full success, it will tighten until it snaps. Now that's what I call a temptation. But of course it's a psychological metaphor. But a bad habit does feel physically disheartening especially (ever noticed the faces of fat people all alone? It's drives one to pity.) and a good habit feels physically exhilarating.
 :Thinkerg:

----------


## billy the kid

> Self-discipline for me is the same as it is for all of national military forces around the world as well as all of the world sports: it's a physical thing and only a physical thing.


No matie, it's a mind thing. Think we have to back to the Greeks to where it originated.
The military hi-jacked the word and later maybe the sports world, education, adopted the word also to use.   
Some countries like in the east used opium before going in to battle; in the west they would use alcohol.   Dutch courage and all that. Big medals at the end of couragous battles usually brought out the beast in man. Or whatever the reward.

Know that we are conditioned by language. 

Yes a mind thing.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 24...

----------


## Sumbitch

Good morning, sir. Is it early evening back there, like 5:30 PM?

----------


## Sumbitch

> No matie, it's a mind thing.


In any case, I'm glad I've had it and I want it back. 

G'day, mate, although I'm not sure of your location or nationality. Mind givin' us a few clues?

----------


## BaitongBoy

> Is it early evening back there, like 5:30 PM?


As of now, it's about 9:30 pm Tuesday, June 21st in Vancouver...

11:30 am, Wednesday, June 22nd here in Thailand...

----------


## Sumbitch

So you're in TH (yes or no will suffice bc you don't include your location in your posts)?

----------


## billy the kid

> although I'm not sure of your location or nationality. Mind givin' us a few clues?


Come from Belfast, N.Ireland, presently living just outside London.

Disciple was an early one for us. Someone who learnt from a religious teacher or plain teacher.

Disciplinarian ; someone who believes in making someone 'obey' orders. Do this ,don't do that.
And then refusing that, Disciplinary action will be taken.
Getting your arse whipped.     :Smile: 

All about Control.

What i've said in other post is the opposite to all that, the self discipline
where 'you' alone check out for yourself how thought operates in a conditioned state
and freeing yourself from all the circus nonsense,, like an after-life
where that becomes more important than the life we have now
and where FEAR   :Smile:  controls you. though you may not realise it.
It controls thought.
And thought is a controlling merchant.  See it in yourself right here right now.

But you can see where all this is going.

Self interest is the beginning of corruption of mind.

Maybe listen,,,,, but follow nothing or nobody.

----------


## Sumbitch

Great answer! But what has attracted you to TD, particularly considering you've contributed over 7,000 posts?

----------


## Jackanapes

Day 24? Intense. Stay safe!

----------


## Dillinger

^^ with that username, it must have been for the goats

----------


## Sumbitch

> Day 24? Intense. Stay safe!


Thanks, Jack, and in an hour and a quarter it will be day 25. But I'm really looking forward to day 26 when I get to weigh myself after 5 days. Besides learning my current weight another reason I'm looking forward to it is to see the rate of my weight loss in the last 5 days and compare that to the previous 3 weight loss rates, all spaced 5 days apart. Cheers!  :Wink:

----------


## Iceman123

If you keep it going WJB, I think you will have to ask John Edward to continue posting for you.
 :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

> If you keep it going WJB, I think you will have to ask John Edward to continue posting for you.


The self-proclaimed psychic medium?  :Lmao:

----------


## billy the kid

> But what has attracted you to TD, particularly considering you've contributed over 7,000 posts?


seemed to have lost that reply so again.

When i was living in thailand a friend asked me to have a look.

7000 posts, wow.  Hope you watched the game tonight with a Guinness,    :Beerchug:

----------


## Sumbitch

> 7000 posts, wow. Hope you watched the game tonight with a
> Guinness,


At the time, I didn't realize 3rd place teams were eligible for the round of 16. And I really wanted Sweden to beat Belgium, esp. bc of Zlatan Ibrahimović. But Sweden showed me nothing. Belgium seemed much faster getting to and running with the ball. They also looked much younger, which may have explained the extra speed. Their late goal was a beauty and all they needed was a draw to move on.

Anyway, Ireland vs Italy was on at the same time but I did toggle back and forth between the two games and it was great to see the Irish fans celebrating after the victory. Also, I'm of full blooded Irish immigrant blood on both sides and my brother has found our Irish genealogy as far back as that's been recorded. Next up, on Monday at 2 AM in LOS: England!  Can't wait for that but no, lol, can't drink
alcohol while fasting.

Update on the fast; Day 25. Am finally noticing a loss of belly fat. From my dick to halfway to my belly button, it's 100% fat free, when pinched! Big happy surprise. Didn't realize that was totally separate from the abdominal and oblique muscles. And no change there at all. But I'm pretty damn sure, you lose body fat covering up the abdominal muscles last of all, so I think that's next. Hard to believe it could happen over night, though.  :Lmao:

----------


## ENT

Hows yer shits, soft or hard?

Checking your pH?

What's your mineral balance level?

Keep smiling.    :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

> Hows yer shits, soft or hard?
> 
> Checking your pH?
> 
> What's your mineral balance level?
> 
> Keep smiling.


First question: no hard news to report from that end. Actually, no reports at all since since the last event on June 16 and reported on here https://teakdoor.com/health-fitness-a...ml#post3292840 (Fasting)
But I'm continuing to fart, w/o any leakage, which leads me to believe that my metabolism is feeding on my fat and, to a lesser extent, lean muscle and no waste products are produced from that except for the farts. It's a pretty satisfying feeling bc, if my digestive system was burning up anything besides muscle and fat, there would be bowel movements. 

Question 2: Piss on PH. Don't care. What matters to everybody most is that their piss is crystal clear. That means you are fully hydrated. That means your PH will be as close to clean water as you can get. If you can't get to clear piss no matter how much water you drink, well, then I guess PH is pretty damn important.

Question 3: I take a multivitamin containing plenty of minerals every morning. 

 :Very Happy:

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 25...Yes...Merry Christmas, wj...




> So you're in TH


Yes, been here about six months...Just left Cha Am and Hua Hin for a brief sojourn in Bangkok...

Day by day, for now...

----------


## Sumbitch

> Yes, been here about six months...Just left Cha Am and Hua Hin for a brief sojourn in Bangkok...  Day by day, for now...


Wow. That's great!

Come up north (Chiang Mai) and get out of that rain! We're bone dry up here except for a couple of splashes now and then. And you can always wait 'em out, they're so short. People don't carry their umbrellas all the time.

Have fun, will travel, OK?

----------


## ENT

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> 
> Hows yer shits, soft or hard?
> 
> Checking your pH?
> 
> What's your mineral balance level?
> 
> ...


Farts result from undigested proteins in the large intestine, normally.

Could be residual black deposits in colon, may need probiotics to shift it.

Don't take too much calcium right now.

----------


## Latindancer

I concur. 
You are farting because of food deposits still in the colon. After such a long fast, you should be having the occasional enema, using pure, clean  water. Otherwise it's not at all good for your colon.

----------


## billy the kid

I'm waiting to say 3 days man, 3 days.

Woodstock and all that.   

Excitement mounting, the Final Count down.     :Smile:

----------


## billy the kid

> using pure, clean water.


assumed wjb had that sorted from the beginning.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Farts result from undigested proteins in the large intestine, normally.  Could be residual black deposits in colon, may need probiotics to shift it.  Don't take too much calcium right now.


Oh. I didn't know that.  :durh: 




> I concur. You are farting because of food deposits still in the colon. After such a long fast, you should be having the occasional enema, using pure, clean water. Otherwise it's not at all good for your colon.


Shit! Back to the hospital tomorrow to get one. How often would you say "occasionally" is?


THX, bro's.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I'm waiting to say 3 days man, 3 days.  Woodstock and all that.  Excitement mounting, the Final Count down.


Are you talking about the anniversary of the original?

There's a 50th anniversary being planned for 2019.




> assumed wjb had that sorted from the beginning.


Well, cheap bottled water (very, very well sealed): 32 oz. per bottle and 45 baht for 20 bottles.

----------


## billy the kid

> 45 baht for 20 bottles.


2 baht a bottle ?

----------


## Neverna

> I'm continuing to fart, w/o any leakage, which leads me to believe that my metabolism is feeding on my fat and, to a lesser extent, lean muscle and no waste products are produced from that except for the farts.


It could be the "2 tsps of psyilium husk powder of 3-4 grams of fiber" you take not being digested or absorbed in your intestines, ending up in your colon where it's broken down by bacteria, producing gas and released as farts.

----------


## ENT

Must be fair bit of protein in that psyllium to make you fart!

It's usually regarded as a laxative and anti-flatulent.

A lack of pro-biotics and a surfeit of undigested protein in the colon could be the cause of gassing at this stage of a fast.

----------


## Neverna

Not sure why you re fixated on protein, ENT! Is your Google machine not working? Let me help you. 

Flatulence - Causes - NHS Choices

Gas and Flatulence: Causes, Treatments and Complications

What your wind says about you - 7 fascinating facts about flatulence - BT

----------


## Sumbitch

> 2 baht a bottle ?


Fuck! Good question. What's 45/20, guys?




> It could be the "2 tsps of psyilium husk powder of 3-4 grams of fiber" you take not being digested or absorbed in your intestines, ending up in your colon where it's broken down by bacteria, producing gas and released as farts.





> Must be fair bit of protein in that psyllium to make you fart!  It's usually regarded as a laxative and anti-flatulent.  A lack of pro-biotics and a surfeit of undigested protein in the colon could be the cause of gassing at this stage of a fast.


Not the psyllium. which is fiber powder and I only took it once. I believe it's the protein drinks once or twice a day a bodybuilder converted me to over a year ago. Each drink contains 24 grams of protein. I'll have that enema today but I expect that will be the only one during this fast, even though I've read experts advising one or enemas _a day_. And screw those protein shakes from now on.

I _would_ like Ant's opinion on protein shakes.

----------


## AntRobertson

> I would like Ant's opinion on protein shakes


Sorry I haven't kept up to speed with the thread... You mean as in causing you gas?

If that's the case they defo can do that but I doubt there would be any long-term issues (I'm assuming you've been off them for the duration of the fast?).

In general I think protein powders are pretty good but - like any supplement - it really comes down to your goals and how/why you're using them.

----------


## ENT

Gases come from fermenting undigested food in the colon, most of it protein, in normal circumstances, which breaks down to glycerides then sugars then alcohol and COz ans SO2.

If wjb has some dietary problems such as diabetes, lactose intolerance, acid reflux and so on, then undigested carbs may pass to the colon to ferment.

What the protein/carb/fibre ratio is in the brand of psyllium will probably indicate what's fermenting in his colon.

Any undigested foods in the colon are prone to fermentation there, cellulose fibres the least so.

Psyllium is used as a laxative, so flatulence.                                                                                                                              

Some infor

Relevance of protein fermentation to gut health.
Windey K1, De Preter V, Verbeke K.
Author information
Abstract
It is generally accepted that carbohydrate fermentation results in beneficial effects for the host because of the generation of short chain fatty acids, whereas protein fermentation is considered detrimental for the host's health.* Protein fermentation mainly occurs in the distal colon,* *when carbohydrates get depleted* and results in the production of potentially toxic metabolites such as ammonia, amines, phenols and sulfides. However, the effectivity of these metabolites has been established mainly in in vitro studies.                                                                                                                                                                

In addition, some important bowel diseases such as colorectal cancer (CRC) and ulcerative colitis appear most often in* the distal colon, which is the primary site of protein fermentation.*  

Finally, epidemiological studies revealed that diets rich in meat are associated with the prevalence of CRC, as is the case in Western society. Importantly, *meat intake not only increases fermentation of proteins* but also induces increased intake of fat, heme and heterocyclic amines, which may also play a role in the development of CRC. Despite these indications, the *relationship between gut health and protein fermentation has not been thoroughly investigated*. In this review, the existing evidence about the potential toxicity of protein fermentation from in vitro animal and human studies will be summarized.
Relevance of protein fermentation to gut health. - PubMed - NCBI

----------


## billy the kid

> Fuck!


2.25 baht a bottle.

How come so cheap  ?  Special farang price.  Special friend price.

----------


## ENT

We sell clean drinking water (serve yourself from a machine) @ 1 baht per litre.

----------


## billy the kid

^ ok cheers. thinking it was 7-10 baht.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 26...Cheers, blaney...

----------


## ENT

> Not the psyllium. which is fiber powder and I only took it once. I believe it's the protein drinks once or twice a day a bodybuilder converted me to over a year ago. Each drink contains 24 grams of protein.


Protein shakes on a fast?

----------


## Sumbitch

> Sorry I haven't kept up to speed with the thread... You mean as in causing you gas?  If that's the case they defo can do that but I doubt there would be any long-term issues (I'm assuming you've been off them for the duration of the fast?).  In general I think protein powders are pretty good but - like any supplement - it really comes down to your goals and how/why you're using them.


Yeah, like causing an occasional fart which has not been the least uncomfortable and nowhere as nearly as often as it is when I'm not fasting.

On the fast, I've only been drinking water but I don't know what "defo" means exactly and I assume you're referring to protein shakes by "been off them". If that's the case, then an enema isn't necessary. However, I haven't had a colonoscopy ever when the doctor reminded me that for men over 50, they should have one every 10 years...at 18,000-20,000 baht! I did try to get an enema which, thankfully, I haven't gotten yet (at 2,500 baht or more a pop), even though I waited 3 hours for them to find a room available which they couldn't do. So I told them I'd wait at home and they could call me when a room is available. Then I'm going to tell them to forget it. Although, shit, I don't know how long I can put off a colonoscopy. But doctors are like any salesman when it comes to advising procedures. So I'll do my own research first and maybe die w/o ever having one.

I like protein powders, too, and plan to continue with shakes when I've finished breakfast (4 days after finishing the fast) and start exercising hard enough to deserve them. My problem for the last 3 years was that I wasn't locked into a permanent diet, which habit I plan on breaking with fasting, even if this first one isn't enough. And another thing I discovered: I LOVE fasting! It's such a physical thing. Plus, it comes as close to spot loss as you can get. But I didn't truly notice a loss of belly fat until a couple of days ago and today is day 26 of my water fast and it was only from my penis to half way to my belly button. I didn't realize that is entirely separate from the abs. I haven't seemed to make a dent in my belly fat even though I finally know where my abs actually begin. Plus, there are no other "spots" I have to get rid of (like my butt). And I haven't noticed any loss of size (by which I mean lean muscle loss, although I know I'll lose some). So fasting makes a perfect 3rd leg to my exercise stool, the other two being lifting and cardio. I spent so many years, from 1980 to 3 years ago, on a warrior's diet (basically fasting 23 hours every day, except for maybe one day off/cheat day per week). And I was skinny until 1992, when I started lifting. And, yeah, I did gain weight by simply increasing my one meal, as long as the time at the table was under 60 minutes.

There are so many different fasts available, like intermittent fasts that are much shorter than 15 days but less often than the warrior's diet. I'm learning more about them on bodybuilding.com to start with. Sounds exciting!




> 2.25 baht a bottle.  How come so cheap ? Special farang price. Special friend price.


Condo mgr sells them to residents.




> Day 26...Cheers, blaney...


Hey, BB boy, I appreciate the good wishes!




> Protein shakes on a fast?


Nope. Strictly water.


OK, the hospital just called me back. They said they had a room available now. I said no thanks. 

Further update: I weighed myself twice today: once at the hospital where it was 75.5 kg/166.5 lbs and again at the mall on the way home, which has been the only scale I've used so far, where it was 76 kg/167.5 lbs. Hmmm.

I'm going to post this now then compare the rate of weight loss with every other weigh-in I've had so far (every 5 days, Ant). Then get back get back to you all.

Have a great weekend!

----------


## Sumbitch

OK, my last weigh-in at the mall 5 days ago was 77.6 kg/171 lbs. That means my rate of weight loss was 1.6 kg/3.5 lbs, which comes much closer to my last rate which was 1.8 kg/4 lbs. then it does to the exact rate I maintained since the 9th day of the fast: 1 kg/2.2 lbs., which comes as a pleasant surprise since I explained to you all that I went through hell bc of 2, 3 and 4 hour walks, which I also thought explained the 1.8 kg loss last time. Maybe my metabolism has sped up. I've read (once) that most weight loss comes at the beginning of a fast. It also means I'm getting closer faster to my body weight set point, which is the ultimate goal of this fast. But, damn I hope I lose all of my belly fat first, which is maybe where the weight loss is coming from finally and since fat weighs way less than muscle, I'm confident that a 1.6 kg rate is OK. Check back soon!  :Laugh2: 


 :sorry2:

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 27...Good morning, wj...

----------


## Latindancer

> I did try to get an enema which, thankfully, I haven't gotten yet (at 2,500 baht or more a pop), even though I waited 3 hours for them to find a room available which they couldn't do. So I told them I'd wait at home and they could call me when a room is available. Then I'm going to tell them to forget it.


Dude....you don't need to get a doctor to give you an enema....you can do it yourself. Just Google it.

I highly recommend it. Many people would say they are essential during fasting.

And when you do break your fast, eat some papaya to clean yourself out. The enzyme papain it it digests protein and will clean out the crap in there.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Day 27...Good morning, wj...


How you doin'? I'm doin' grrreat!




> Dude....you don't need to get a doctor to give you an enema....you can do it yourself. Just Google it.  I highly recommend it. Many people would say they are essential during fasting.  And when you do break your fast, eat some papaya to clean yourself out. The enzyme papain it it digests protein and will clean out the crap in there.


Yeah, when I told the doc what I wanted he looked at me strangely and said "can't you do it yourself?". And I did know that, just didn't want to bother to learn how.
i may change my mind but I've read a lot of posts and blogs where enemas aren't mentioned for anywhere between 18 day and 40 day fasts.

I have breakfast all figured out:
Day 1: strictly fresh fruit and veggie juice. But the sweeter the juice the faster your appetite will increase and the less you should drink bc of the caloric content.
Day 2: repeat day 1. I'll add another fruit juice to the menu.  The first one will be mango juice, a medium sweet fruit.
Days 3 & 4: this list to choose fromraw fruits but avoiding citrus fruits like pineapple. This is the list I'll choose from:Papaya. ...Bananas. ...Cantaloupe. ...Watermelon. ...Honeydew.yogurt unsweetenedlettuces and spinach (can use plain yogurt as a dressing and top with fresh fruit)cooked vegetables and vegetable soupsraw vegetableswell cooked beans (but prolly out of can but I love 4 bean salads too much)nuts and eggsDay 5 forwards: back to high protein, low carb, high fiber and good fats. Obviously, a lot of that food is on the list above. But I'll add a homemade vinaigrette dressing, protein shakes eventually, shrimp, tuna, char broiled squid, roast chicken (occasionally), a fruity yogurt, a delicious orange flavored and grape flavored milk drink which tastes more like a shake. There are yogurt shakes at a couple of shops at the tai pae gate, which is either a 40 minute walk if I want to drink one there but a red taxi ride will let me store 4 at a time in my fridge. That sounds like a better decision than the bottle milk drinks. I'll also add high fiber (14-15 grams) cereals in sweetened soy milk, topped with bananas or mangoes and a couple of tblsps. of pure blueberry preserves or honey (no additives) for sweetness instead of Equal artificial sweetner. I don't want to go to brown sugar either. Also, I'll eat peanut butter (made out of whole nut peanut butter from Aus. which has so little oil that it's not visible but still spreads and is completely organic) and blueberry preserves, sometimes adding a sliced banana between 2 slices of whole wheat or whole meal bread. That's it for my diet. Of course, eat only when hungry, which naturally might lead back to the warrior's diet. See anything to comment on?

I'll restart exercising, both cardio and weight lifting, by day 5 after this fast, hopefully. Also I'll be weighing myself every day. 

If I haven't already incorporated some kind of fast into my fitness and nutrition routine, I won't wait at least 30 days before starting another one. At least, that's the plan but since I'll be weighing myself every day and looking for results from lifting weights (esp. gaining strength), that's an open-ended question. I just think that 3 years w/o fasting is too long.

----------


## Sumbitch

> If that's the case they defo can do that but I doubt there would be any long-term issues (I'm assuming you've been off them for the duration of the fast?).  In general I think protein powders are pretty good but - like any supplement - it really comes down to your goals and how/why you're using them.


Ant, I have a _very_ important question to put to you about my new planned weight lifting routine. Why it's so important is bc after 3 weeks and then 2 days rest I had the worst chest muscle strain of my life. I mean I waited more than 4 weeks to completely recover so that I could go back to the gym (what's the point of doing only legs?). Now here's the reason why: I was doing 3 full body multi-compound exercises only, 3 days a week. It was also a circuit and it's the first routine that I am truly in love with consisting of:
squats
dead lifts
bar bell flat bench presses
bar bell shoulder lifts
lunges (god, can you feel the burn in your glutes)
pull downs
t-bar rows
maybe seated rows
leg raises (side to side and up and down) at home. 
No more crunches or curls. Yahooooo!

I could do 3 full circuits in 45 minutes and I really loved that aspect of it. No more waiting around waiting to get 4 sets in on an exercise or for some other machine or bench to become available. Just jump to another exercise on the list. Order isn't important. The time to switch from one set of one exercise to the next is all the wait you need. And you feel ready to go immediately and not bored in the least. By the third set maybe you're getting a little bit wiped out but that's all to the good. And, yeah, I would like to add a fourth circuit.

Of course the problem was 3 full body workouts a week. So I want a split of multi-compound exercises that includes the above list but completes a full body workout only once a week. I guess I can find more exercises online (where I found this routine) but would appreciate your opinion, too.

Also, I still don't know what you meant by "defo". Defecate? I'm not worried about that and an answer is unnecessary.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Defo = definitely...Now read the sentence again...

Cheers...

----------


## Neverna

> Ant, I have a _very_ important question to put to you about my new planned weight lifting routine.


But you forgot to ask it.  :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

> But you forgot to ask it.


No, I asked him what he thought of the exercises listed and how to break them up into 3 days/week by only doing one exercise (3 or 4 sets each) of each in a week, in a sensible way and which other multi-compound exercises that could fill up the the 2/3 missing exercises now that I'm going to do one exercise each per week, instead of 3 times.  :Wink:

----------


## Sumbitch

> Defo = definitely...Now read the sentence again...
> 
> Cheers...


Mai pen rai!

----------


## BaitongBoy

^ Okay?...


Cheers...

----------


## Sumbitch

I also noticed something else of significance tonight: a bit of a white coating on the back of my tongue, especially the sides of the back. I took Wikihow's first suggestion (brushing the tongue and gargling mouth wash). Success! Tongue pink and rosy again.

However, I noticed something more important as I delved into the fasting web sites on the subject (the cause is obviously detoxification) and this opinion is unaminous: 


> people who really feel like breaking the fast, and who feel strong and hungry, seem to adjust very quickly to eating again. However, everyone else should wait until they feel true hunger.


 I feel like I am in the latter category.

Another concern I've had recently is dizziness. This put my mind at rest. First of all my blood pressure has dropped to 90/60 but better than normal (which it usually is). And I've experienced dizziness. Answer: 


> Blood pressure is virtually guaranteed to drop while fasting, and will stay lower if intelligent lifestyle choices are followed after the fast. This is great news for the 50% of Americans who will die of the ravages of high-blood pressure, heart disease, or stroke. Its worth noting for all fasters because below-normal blood pressure, while not inherently dangerous or problematic often results in orthostatic hypotension (standing up too fast and getting dizzy, in English).
> 
> This dizziness occurs when lower-than-normal blood pressure fails to provide enough blood to the brain upon rising. To insure that this doesnt occur, rise slowly. From a lying position, sit-up first, standing-up only after you feel a sense of equilibrium.

----------


## ENT

A white coating on the tongue may be from either poor digestion or even thrush.

If I eat processed food or even drink an instant coffee, I end up with a white coated tongue.

The dizziness from low blood pressure sounds right.

A spliff will do that for ya.... :Smile:

----------


## BaitongBoy

Welcome to Day 28...4 weeks, now...

----------


## Sumbitch

Got a new workout split figured out:

*Mon.*
*Back, traps and arms*
*1.    * *Pull-downs*
*2.    * *T-bar rows*
*3.    * *Seated rows (3)*
*4.    * *Dead lifts*
*5.    * *Close grip dips  triceps*
*6.    * *Military press* *- pecs, deltoids, traps*
*7.    * *Dumb bell bent over row**  biceps, traps*
*8.    * *Barbell upright row* * traps, deltoids, biceps, glutes*
*9.    * *Pull ups

Tue.
Cardio

Wed.
* *Chest & shoulders*
*1.    * *Dumb bell flat bench press*
*2.    * *Dumb bell shoulder press*
*3.    * *Dumb bell incline bench press*
*4.    * *Wide grip dips*
*5.    * *Pushups*
*6.    * *Machine shoulder press*
*7.    * *Lateral raise machine*
*8.    * *Stand-up heels clicked military press* 
9.*Lateral Dumb bell raises (3)

Thur.
Cardio

Fri.
* *Legs*
*1.    * *Squats*
*2.    * *Lunges (starting position: genuflection between 2 dumb bells)*
*3.    * *Leg press*
*4.    * *Calf raises*
*5.    * *Fitness ball hip raise and curl*(replaces leg curl machine)
*6.    * *Machine squat*
*7.    * *Hack squat  quadriceps* 
*8.    * *Dead lifts* 
*9. Good Morning  posterior chain

Sat.
Cardio or rest

Sun.
Rest
*

----------


## Sumbitch

> A white coating on the tongue may be from either poor digestion or even thrush.  If I eat processed food or even drink an instant coffee, I end up with a white coated tongue.


A simple brushing of the tongue along with the teeth got rid of it last night, followed by a mouthwash (which I could tell I should have been doing along with brushing since a long time ago) and the white tongue didn't reappear yet. HA, HA!




> The dizziness from low blood pressure sounds right.  A spliff will do that for ya....


Not in LOS, my friend... ::doglol:: 




> Welcome to Day 28...4 weeks, now...


Yeah, and the best news or worst (I'll give you a reason for each) is that I will try not to stop until I feel true hunger, even if that's past the point where I have stopped losing weight. The good news is, there's an agreed-upon stop date. The bad news is the exception to that rule: if you feel strong enough to stop when you want. As indicated by my dizziness, I don't think so. I may use that as an excuse, however.

BTW, I've been saying 160 lbs was my set point in 1980. I think now that was _after_ I had stopped fasting and gained enough weight back to look and feel normal. In other words, I think I got down to 150 lbs before I stopped losing weight. I may be wrong about that. We'll see.

----------


## Neverna

> Yeah, and the best news or worst (I'll give you a reason for each) is that I will try not to stop until I feel true hunger, even if that's past the point where I have stopped losing weight. The good news is, there's an agreed-upon stop date. The bad news is the exception to that rule: if you feel strong enough to stop when you want. As indicated by my dizziness, I don't think so. I may use that as an excuse, however.


Are you saying you will continue to fast (indefinitely) until you feel "true hunger"? (possibly 6 months or a year, for example?) and maybe even beyond that?

----------


## Sumbitch

> Are you saying you will continue to fast (indefinitely) until you feel "true hunger"? (possibly 6 months or a year, for example?) and maybe even beyond that?


Oh no! I'll be continuing to weaken, I figure, which will only make it much harder to get into fighting condition. My only goal for this fast is to get rid of my belly fat. I think I have a real chance of doing that as it's the only fat left to lose. As to how long that should take, I don't know. I do know, through experience, that when I have set a goal, 9/10 times I'll reach it.

----------


## Perota

> Got a new workout split figured out:
> 
> *Mon.*
> *Back, traps and arms*
> *1.    * *Pull-downs*
> *2.    * *T-bar rows*
> *3.    * *Seated rows (3)*
> *4.    * *Dead lifts*
> *5.    * *Close grip dips – triceps*
> ...


I believe it's Facebook that now has this button you can click if you think a friend may harm him(her)self and is in need of professional help. If TD had it, you will probably be the one getting the more hits.

Fasting, weight lifting, what is wrong with you ? This is the kind of self image problems usually associated with teenage girls. You definitively have an hormone problem, some kind of andropause. You better have a complete check up, both mental and physical, before your really harm yourself.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I believe it's Facebook that now has this button you can click if you think a friend may harm him(her)self and is in need of professional help. If TD had it, you will probably be the one getting the more hits.  Fasting, weight lifting, what is wrong with you ? This is the kind of self image problems usually associated with teenage girls. This is definitively an hormone problem, some kind of andropause. You better have a complete check up, both mental and physical, before your really harm yourself.


I have already really harmed myself before, just nothing as bad as a torn biceps or shoulder injury requiring surgery. If this one fast is all it takes to keep the body fat off, then fine. It's been very extreme. I just haven't worked out 5 or 6 days a week in quite a while now. So it really depends on that bc I don't think I can avoid gaining body fat on working out only 3 days a week. Then I will go back to intermittent fasting, no matter what you say.

Everyone is absolutely entitled to their own opinion about fitness and exercise, _including_ experimentation.

You're entitled to your opinion and I won't diss it.  :Smile: 


Edit: On remembrance, it was only low blood pressure that brought on the dizziness and the more I walked around the stronger I felt. Therefore, I'm sure I'm strong enough to fit into that exception and can stop fasting anytime I want.

Edit #2: I take the first edit back except not so much that I won't quit the fast whenever i feel like it. For example, I just got up to open 3 strips of for a single pill in each (for my chronic bronchitis or asthma - indeterminate still) and was pissed off that my arms were getting so tired doing it. Another example, yesterday I scrambled 10 ft or so to catch the elevator in my condo building and the guy in the elevator, whom I had never met before, frankly said "Why are you ought of breath?". But when I said I was 25 days into a water fast, he goes "Wow!". Real nice for the ego.

----------


## Iceman123

> Another example, yesterday I scrambled 10 ft or so to catch the elevator in my condo building and the guy in the elevator, whom I had never met before, frankly said "Why are you ought of breath?". But when I said I was 25 days into a water fast, he goes "Wow!". Real nice for the ego.


The fast is having an effect on your memory, yesterday was day 27.
 :Smile:

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> The fast is having an effect on your memory, yesterday was day 27.


I'd forgotten he was committing slow suicide. No wonder his posts on a variety of threads have been weirder than usual.

Took Bobby Sands 66 days to accomplish the mission.

----------


## BaitongBoy

^ Not a bad first round on the golf course...

----------


## Sumbitch

> The fast is having an effect on your memory, yesterday was day 27.


 :Slomo: 




> I'd forgotten he was committing slow suicide. No  wonder his posts on a variety of threads have been weirder than usual.  Took Bobby Sands 66 days to accomplish the mission.


Yeah, Davis, I saw the movie Hunger starring Michael Fassbender, who is my favorite actor currently and I don't doubt that the portrayal was accurate.

But he was emaciated and undernourished to begin with, had already finished one long fast as well. But my physical condition has not deteriorated in 4 weeks. It's also called a detox fast and one of the first physical effects is supposed to be a white coating on the tongue, which I just noticed last night for the first time and only at the back and sides of the tongue and easily brushed off with a toothbrush and toothpaste. I didn't realize there is something called a tongue scraper to do the job. So, physically, it's doing me much more good than harm and I've told the doctor why I was asking for an enema and told him why and how long the fast had been. He wasn't concerned in the least. (That's been in the last week.) I didn't get an enema either after waiting 3 hours for a room to become available. I'm sure there's no need now. There has been a huge drop in my blood pressure to 90/60 which is causing dizziness when I get up from lying down but the nurse just smiled more than usual bc it used to be borderline normal on the high side. She called my blood pressure normal too. I'm really happy with results so far which includes a loss of body fat. Of course, I've lost a lot of weight (prolly 20 lbs and I'm now down to 166 lbs. My height is 6'1"), and some of that has been lean muscle. But have been really pleasantly surprised that my physical size doesn't seem to have gotten smaller, just skinnier, which is why I wanted to lose weight overall. But I've also started to lose belly fat in the last couple of days, which is my major goal now.

About my posts on other threads: I'll accept "weirder" as a valid value judgement bc a water fast takes 100% concentration on staying full on only water. But it works! (I guess that should be obvious.) It really is irritating feeling hungry. (Since starting this reply I've drunk 64 ozs.) But I have not suffered any of all the other horrible side effects of a detox fast, mostly having to do with BMs. Therefore, when feeling full I am really satisfied with the results. ALSO, if you read most of my other posts on _this_ thread, you'll notice they are more "wordier" than "weirder".  :Lmao: 

Good luck in your endeavors. I know supporting and raising a family with the mother of your kids is a very difficult and noble achievement. Respect.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

I understand all too well significant weight loss. Several years ago, I dropped from my normal weight of 180lbs to 124lbs in six months. The impact on your mind and body isn't pretty.

----------


## Perota

> I understand all too well significant weight loss. Several years ago, I dropped from my normal weight of 180lbs to 124lbs in six months. The impact on your mind and body isn't pretty.


If you lose weight too fast the impact on your body can be pretty ugly actually. If you expect showing your new body on the beach after dropping your excess weight, just forget about it. You will need first to undergo plastic surgery to get rid of your loose skin. 

There's a correlation between how quickly one loses _weight_ and the amount of _loose skin_ they end up with. In order to _lose weight_, you must create a calorie deficit. The deficit should be reasonable and you_ shouldn't lose more than_  one to two pounds per week.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Mine wasn't by choice at all. 180lbs is my norm. The weight loss was due to recovery problems from major stomach surgery, which ultimately resulted in a stroke.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I understand all too well significant weight loss. Several years ago, I dropped from my normal weight of 180lbs to 124lbs in six months. The impact on your mind and body isn't pretty.


Why did you get so low? Sounds like you were sick. That happened to me once. Got down to 120 lbs in a couple of weeks (acute gastritis). I truly was on my death bed, lol. So, yeah, I know what Bobby Sands went through, lol.

Edit: I see the reason above: major stomach surgery. Sorry about that. Esp. the stroke.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^Stroke knocked my bowels back in line, after six months of 10-20 bowel movements a day.

Then a few years of hard work to recover from the stroke. All good now.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Fasting, weight lifting, what is wrong with you ? This is the kind of self image problems usually associated with teenage girls.


You make a good point about image problems. My mother, who is a saint, God bless her soul, used to say: "Look at yourself once in the mirror before you go out." Get it? My brother, 6 years older, was in perfect condition at age 19 from just playing sports, especially surfing. He told me once weight lifting (I'm pretty sure he didn't say 'body building' bc this was 1963) was 'narcissistic'. And I fully believed that then. When I was 19, I was in good shape too, from beach sports and running from the cops. I had also played baseball in the the summer and football in the fall throughout high school. 

Currently, I can't stand watching footballers on TV showing off their abs and especially all the young Thais in the gym doing the same thing and staring in the mirror and making sure everyone else sees how cut their skinny abs are. It's like fighting words to me. That's why strength training is so important for me. I want my muscles to be able to do what they were meant to do in the first place.

About loose skin, I'm not worried about that. My overall weight loss has only been 20 lbs down from 185 lbs. and I'd be satisfied with anything from there up to a 30 lb loss.

About weight lifting and fasting, what is wrong with YOU? I fasted 23 hours a day for 33 years and lifted weights and did cardio for 2 hours 5-6 days week. I could run 40 miles a week in 6.5 hours on a treadmill a couple of months ago. I LOVE weight training, OK? It was when I gave up the daily fast 3 years ago and then recently would work out only 3 days a week and sometimes for an hour or less that my self-discipline started yo-yoing. It all came to a head when I was forced out of the gym from two consecutive injuries (one upper body, one lower body) for 6 out of the 9 weeks just prior to this fast with no 23 hour daily fast to keep my weight down, that my self-discipline was shot. And it wasn't until I was 1 week into the fast that I realized I was in denial also. So ONE thing I know is that the self-discipline is coming back and that is all that matters.

So self-discipline is what this fast is all about. Trust.

----------


## ENT

> [ In order to _lose weight_, you must create a* calorie deficit.* The deficit should be reasonable and you_ shouldn't lose more than_ * one to two pounds per week.*


Spot on.

Two or three ounces a day gain or loss, just over a pound a week for a 11 stone man is about right.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 29...Keep on rolling...Into the 5th week, now...

----------


## Cujo

> A white coating on the tongue may be from either poor digestion or even thrush.
> 
> If I eat processed food or even drink an instant coffee, I end up with a white coated tongue.
> 
> The dizziness from low blood pressure sounds right.
> 
> A spliff will do that for ya....


Christ almighty, how much time do you blokes spend checking the state of your tongues?

I think this whole fasting thing is an exercise in foolishness and no long term good can come of it.
It's certainly very unhealthy and I would be surprised if WJB didn't experience some long term ill effects.
Starving the body of essential nutrients doesn't sound like a smart idea at all.

Just hope WJB doesn't die for this foolishness.

----------


## ENT

Yup, long term fasting's a masochistic enterprise.

I've fasted whenever necessary, in times of illness and as a method of reducing calorie  intake to a necessary minimum for life extension.

Self control is the key to all that, one has a choice.

Now, at 70 yoa I fast periodically, maybe a day or two a week, maintaining my calorie intake at 40% lower than standard for my weight etc. and  muscular and ATP energy levels at optimum.

I also do a few hours (max 2 -3 hours a day), about 4 -5 days a week exercise, walking, resistance bands, push and pulls, squats, 5kg dumbells, hand grips, bike rides'

Swimming's brilliant for balancing muscular development, shagging's another good exercise, helps the back and abs.... :Smile:

----------


## ENT

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> 
> A white coating on the tongue may be from either poor digestion or even thrush.
> 
> If I eat processed food or even drink an instant coffee, I end up with a white coated tongue.
> 
> 
> Christ almighty, how much time do you blokes spend checking the state of your tongues?


Every morning.

I also check my saliva and urine pH levels each morning.

I check my urine clarity and frequency along with the state of my shit, every day.

Dunno who said this first, but," A wise man examines his own shit".

----------


## Latindancer

And do you have a little taste to savour it, Doctor ENT  ?  :smiley laughing:

----------


## Cujo

[QUOTE=ENT;3298783]


> Dunno who said this first, but," A wise man examines his own shit".


'FIRST'? No one ever said that I'm certain.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I think this whole fasting thing is an exercise in foolishness and no long term good can come of it.





> Yup, long term fasting's a masochistic enterprise.  I've fasted whenever necessary, in times of illness and as a method of reducing calorie intake to a necessary minimum for life extension.  Self control is the key to all that, one has a choice.  Now, at 70 yoa I fast periodically, maybe a day or two a week, maintaining my calorie intake at 40% lower than standard for my weight etc. and muscular and ATP energy levels at optimum.  I also do a few hours (max 2 -3 hours a day), about 4 -5 days a week exercise, walking, resistance bands, push and pulls, squats, 5kg dumbells, hand grips, bike rides'  Swimming's brilliant for balancing muscular development, shagging's another good exercise, helps the back and abs....


A perfect reply and exactly what I would have said, if I was ever in as good a mood as you always seem to be.  :Wink: 




> Just hope WJB doesn't die for this foolishness.


Listen, you just don't know what your talking about, when it comes to fasting when perfectly healthy. Danger is not a factor for healthy people fasting for long periods of time. I've been seeing a doctor at Chiang Mai Ram Hospital just about weekly for no reasons related to this fast and I have told each and every one how many days I've been on a water fast and I haven't even gotten a comment. 

Before I see the doc I always see a nurse and have my blood oxygen measured, blood pressure taken and weigh myself. This last time was the first time my blood pressure was 90/60. The nurse called it normal and although she used to call it normal before, it was always at the high end of normal and one time it was slightly higher than normal. Her smile was also bigger than normal (pun). I have an appointment July 4, which is a week away and I don't know if I can last that long but I'll try. One thing that's dropped too much is my blood oxygen level as proven when I ran 10 ft to the elevator to catch the elevator and the guy said "Why are you out of breath?"  :Lmao: 

P.S. My blood oxygen level is not as low as it gets in the mountains but I haven't had the nurse comment on it _ever_ and I always make sure I see it too. But if she does or it's 85/100 or lower, I will also tell the doctor and, if he advises me to stop fasting (he prolly will), I will bc it'll mean I'm too weak. (that's never happened to me in the mountains where it is also measured daily but I _would_ go down if it got to below 85/100)

----------


## Sumbitch

> Yup, long term fasting's a masochistic enterprise.


Disagree. It's purpose can be for losing or controlling weight, detox and developing self-discipline or any combo of the three, including all three. 

Length wise, I've never been in the mountains for longer than 4 weeks and it's always been relatively easy to get back into the gym afterwards. Of course, it was a hell of a lot easier running than before I had left. Lifting was always a chore getting back up to speed. This time I'll have to start from scratch, as far as running goes, also. This is in the back of mind and coming to the fore. I don't have to lose any more weight and I believed I've regained self-discipline, by which I mean mind over body. The only goal I have left is loss of all belly fat but I'm more than willing to stop fasting now bc I know from experience running will also get rid of it. Also, did you see loss of belly fat listed as one of the three purposes of long term fasting?

----------


## Cujo

What about when your asshole siezes up from lack of use and you need to use it after you break the fast?
Whaddaya gonna do then eh?

----------


## Iceman123

> What about when your asshole siezes up from lack of use and you need to use it after you break the fast?
> Whaddaya gonna do then eh?


No problem,
He is only fasting, his boyfriend is still around.
 :rofl:

----------


## Jackanapes

> Originally Posted by Cujo
> 
> 
> What about when your asshole siezes up from lack of use and you need to use it after you break the fast?
> Whaddaya gonna do then eh?
> 
> 
> No problem,
> He is only fasting, his boyfriend is still around.


But the thread's titled "fasting", not "fisting".....

----------


## billy the kid

> The nurse called it normal and although she used to call it normal before, it was always at the high end of normal and one time it was slightly higher than normal.


She is only there to make business for the doc. Not ure health.      :Smile: 

Flesh market. They figure you could fcuk up but keeping quiet about it until a major screw-up which will cost mega bucks to put right.

Probably thinking a sandwich short of a picnic basket is the least of their concerns in your case.
With more business coming their way. Just have to be patient.
Trust em at your peril.

----------


## Neverna

> One thing that's dropped too much is my blood oxygen level as proven when I ran 10 ft to the elevator to catch the elevator and the guy said "Why are you out of breath?" 
> 
> P.S. My blood oxygen level is not as low as it gets in the mountains but I haven't had the nurse comment on it _ever_ and I always make sure I see it too. But if she does or it's 85/100 or lower, I will also tell the doctor and, if he advises me to stop fasting (he prolly will), I will bc it'll mean I'm too weak. (that's never happened to me in the mountains where it is also measured daily but I _would_ go down if it got to below 85/100)


What percent is your blood oxygen level now? 

And out of interest how much potassium per day are you consuming while you're fasting?

----------


## Cujo

Regardless of your reasons (weight loss, detox, willpower,) this will all be having a negative effect on the various systems in you body. No matter what you think. 
The body requires fuel.

----------


## Iceman123

> Regardless of your reasons (weight loss, detox, willpower,) this will all be having a negative effect on the various systems in you body. No matter what you think. 
> The body requires fuel.


No it doesn't, Elvis has not eaten since 1977 and continues to lose weight.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 30 has now begun...

----------


## Sumbitch

> What about when your asshole siezes up from lack of use and you need to use it after you break the fast? Whaddaya gonna do then eh?


What do you know about asshole seizures, asshole?




> No problem, He is only fasting, his boyfriend is still around.


Fuck your asshole, too.




> She is only there to make business for the doc. Not ure health.


Doctors included? I agree they try to oversell procedures that you don't need.

That does not include life saving advice. 




> what percent is your blood oxygen level now?


90/100




> And out of interest how much potassium per day are you consuming while you're fasting?


Just what's in a multi-vitamin which I take every day, which I agree, may not be enough. But remember, I break my fast in 24 hours+. The plus is required until I can weigh myself on a scale at the hospital which I can prolly do early. Like in 24 hours exactly if they let me weigh myself in the ER that early. But prolly, not too long after, certainly by 8 AM. I will have to get four 32 oz. bottles (2 each of fresh veggie juice and fruit juice, diluted with 50% water) from the fresh fruit juice stand at the mall tomorrow, if the owner will sell that much even if she loads my containers with the cups she usually sells, but no ice, just half water, half juice. This will be my diet for the first two days of my breakfast, even if I have to buy juice from the cartons in the juice aisles and dilute with water myself.




> Regardless of your reasons (weight loss, detox, willpower,) this will all be having a negative effect on the various systems in you body. No matter what you think. The body requires fuel.


Opinion rejected w/o documentation that I have an opportunity to refute.

----------


## ENT

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> Yup, long term fasting's a masochistic enterprise.
> 
> 
> Disagree. It's purpose can be for losing or controlling weight, detox and developing self-discipline or any combo of the three, including all three. 
> 
>  The only goal I have left is loss of all belly fat but I'm more than willing to stop fasting now bc I know from experience running will also get rid of it. Also, did you see loss of belly fat listed as one of the three purposes of long term fasting?


If your goal in a long term water fast is weight loss through metabolization of an excessive accumulation of abdominal fatty tissue, just don't eat  carbs. Exercise free.

Unused carbohydrates will metabolize into fat, so an intake/burn off balance of carbs keeps weight gain through stored carbohydrate potential in fats to an optimal minimum.

Weight gain via excess carb and protein intake plus exercise and rest produces muscle, not fat.

There's bugger all you can do through exercise to reduce waist fat.
Belly fat and back fat are the hardest to lose, LDL cholesterol storage along with toxins.

I've found that Vit B3 in high dose (< 6 grams/day) will lower LDL and raise HDL cholesterol resulting in more easily available ATP energy.
Reduces belly and back fat dramatically over a few months.

Up to 40% dietary calorie reduction (includes 30% protein) does the same.

I've found both methods of inducing LDL loss and increasing lean muscle with minimum exercise/burn off along with optimum improved metabolism, slows the aging process and increases well being (immunity and robusticity) and life span.

Eat what you like, as a norm, just stop indulging in carbs or too much protein.

By the way, how's your arse?   :Smile: 

Have you had any form of a shit lately? What colour and consistency?

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> what percent is your blood oxygen level now?
> 
> 
> 90/100


A bit low?




> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> And out of interest how much potassium per day are you consuming while you're fasting?
> 
> 
> Just what's in a multi-vitamin which I take every day, which I agree, may not be enough.


That is nowhere near enough. Some multivitamins don't contain any potassium at all whereas others provide a tiny amount. For example, Centrum Men doesn't contain any potassium. Centrum Performance contains only 80mg. 

US guidelines say adults should consume 4.7g a day (4,700mg)
UK guidelines say 3.5g a day.  

After 4 weeks of a water fast, you could have seriously low levels of potassium in your body. Look up the importance of it to your diet, your body, your blood - and your heart! And ask your doctor to check your blood potassium levels. 




> Small changes in the level of potassium that is present outside the cells can have severe effects on the heart, nerves, and muscles.
> 
> Potassium is important to maintain several bodily functions:
> Muscles need potassium to contract.
> The heart muscle needs potassium to beat properly and regulate blood pressure.


Low Potassium: Facts About Symptoms, Diet, Foods, and Causes




> Low potassium (hypokalemia) refers to a lower than normal potassium level in your bloodstream. Potassium is a chemical (electrolyte) that is critical to the proper functioning of nerve and muscles cells, particularly heart muscle cells.
> 
> Normally, your blood potassium level is 3.6 to 5.2 millimoles per liter (mmol/L). A very low potassium level (less than 2.5 mmol/L) can be life-threatening and requires urgent medical attention.


Low potassium (hypokalemia) - Mayo Clinic

----------


## Dillinger

> Have you had any form of a shit lately? What colour and consistency



Well this is what a 4 day beer fast looks like

----------


## Sumbitch

> If your goal in a long term water fast is weight loss through metabolization of an excessive accumulation of abdominal fatty tissue, just don't ieat carbs. Exercise free.


Heh, heh. Basically, exercise is my form of meditation and a way to feel good.




> Weight gain via excess carb and protein intake plus exercise and rest produces muscle, not fat.


And is also true for me. I don't know what gave you the idea I've never gained lean muscle mass.




> Belly fat and back fat are the hardest to lose, LDL cholesterol storage along with toxins.


Belly fat and butt fat are the hardest to lose. My back is lean and strong.




> Eat what you like, as a norm, just stop indulging in carbs or too much protein.


Impossible to maintain an 'eat what I like, when I like diet' bc of my addictive and, therefore, self-destructive personality. That is, cheat days start getting out of my control. I need a much more disciplined diet plan.




> By the way, how's your arse?


Perfect, except for a rash which hasn't come under control following the dermatologist's first prescription. Although, she told me to use the prescribed OTC topical cream for 3 weeks and it's only been 2 so far, the progress, if any, doesn't seem to fit the Bill (pun).




> Have you had any form of a shit lately? What colour and consistency?


No shits after the first two weeks which I'm very happy about, given that I haven't consumed any calories in over 4 weeks.  :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

> A bit low?


Did I say 90/100? I meant 90/60!




> That is nowhere near enough. Some multivitamins don't contain any potassium at all whereas others provide a tiny amount. For example, Centrum Men doesn't contain any potassium. Centrum Performance contains only 80mg.  US guidelines say adults should consume 4.7g a day (4,700mg) UK guidelines say 3.5g a day.  After 4 weeks of a water fast, you could have seriously low levels of potassium in your body. Look up the importance of it to your diet, your body, your blood - and your heart! And ask your doctor to check your blood potassium levels.


Don't bananas, as well as beans, dark leafy greens, yogurt, fish, avocados and mushrooms, have a lot of potassium? They're a big part of my normal diet and I'll start eating them in 3 days.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Regardless of your reasons (weight loss, detox, willpower,) this will all be having a negative effect on the various systems in you body. No matter what you think. The body requires fuel.


Cujo, I want to give you a clearer and less sharped-tongued reply to this post but in addition to my earlier ones, so we don't start another cat fight (see Davis Knowlton).

These three reasons will be my lifestyle from now on because forced early retirement (age 62) was unfair, unbalanced, ageist, and took 8 active hours out of my weekday day. Being able to afford only TH from then on and as it is way to hot to do much of anything else other than those 3 things from day to day, I refuse to live the sedimentary lifestyle. Incorporating fasting into my lifestyle lets me stay inside while staying in shape. And, if not mentioned yet, I won't wait for a long fast to be necessary again. And you can look on bodybuilding.com to find how 2 and 3 day fasts can regularly be incorporated into any kind of exercise program you want.

Intermittent Fasting: Science And Supplementation

----------


## AntRobertson

> weight loss through metabolization of an excessive accumulation of abdominal fatty tissue




You. 

Can. 

_Not_. 

Spot. 

Lose. 

Fat.

----------


## Cujo

> until I can weigh myself on a scale at the hospital


You don't have scales at home?
I'd have thought for a exercise like this it'd be essential.
I'd be weighing myself hourly.

----------


## ENT

^^ We know that. So what's your point? As I said, "There's bugger all you can do through exercise to reduce waist fat."

Reducing carb intake to a necessary minimum results in less carbs stored as fat.

Unless you've got a genetic problem or are diabetic, belly fat's the result of a lazy life-style spent consuming excess carbs, probably your problem Aunty.

----------


## charleyboy

Have to get down to the opticians...Thought it was a fisting thread!

----------


## Sumbitch

> You don't have scales at home?


I never used to weigh myself often. So I walk across the mall to its 1 baht digital scale.

Then, low and behold, the last time I weighed myself first at the hospital (which is a much longer walk) and then again at the mall on the way home and the hospital's scale had me at an exact .5 kg lower. That's a pretty major difference over time.

I will weigh myself on both scales again on July 4, when I have another appt. at the hospital. If it's consistent, I'll simply subtract a half a kg from the mall's scale weight every time in the future.




> I'd be weighing myself hourly.


Oh no, likesay, I always used to weigh myself randomly before. From now on, it will only be once a day at the same time to get an get accurate daily weight gain, esp. for the first month. That's when the rapid weight gain should occur.




> Have you had any form of a shit lately? What colour and consistency?


Just filled my fridge with my complete food allowance for the next two days. This is when you should stay closest to the toilet, I'm told, because your digestive system will be in shock.

What's on the menu?

Both days:
1. 64 ozs. of fresh veggies diluted with 50% water.
2. 64 ozs. of fresh fruit diluted with 50% water.
Sounds like plenty to me. Maybe too much but I can always keep it fresh for 2 more days.

I have to go back to Tops for days 3 and 4 but they will deliver from my manager's office, if I think I'll shit myself.

Whats on the menu for days 3 and 4?

Both days:
1. raw fruit: most easily digestible are bananas, papayas and melons, such as watermelon, honeydew or cantaloupe. Mangoes are my favorite fruit.
2. raw vegetables: most easily digestible are green peppers, romaine lettuce, tomatoes, onions, zucchini and cucumber. I'm tempted to make a salad with plain yougurt dressing.

Anything from the following list would be acceptable during the first 4 days. But I'm sure I'm going to stick with juice only on the first two days. Secondly, I'll be very careful not to overeat, although it's a joy to know I can eat as often as every 2 hours.fruit and vegetable juicesraw fruitsvegetable brothyogurt, unsweetenedlettuces and spinach (can use plain yogurt as a dressing and top with fresh fruit)cooked vegetables and vegetable soupsraw vegetablesgrains, beans, nuts and seedseggsMost of the food on that list I'll leave until day 5 when I can have a fully normal diet. Esp. grains, which for me is whole grain cereal with 14-15 grams of fiber so it's still low carb. Also, whole grain wheat or wholemeal bread for practically oil free peanut butter and pure jam sandwiches. And I will add a pure vinaigrette  salad dressing (2 parts oil, 1 part vinegar, brown mustard to taste and shake) in place of yogurt as well as a fruity yogurt to mix with whey protein shakes or by itself. This is just from day 5 on.

----------


## ENT

I'd be wary of eating any grains, nuts etc in the first few days, they're harder to digest and can clog up your colon as well as any starches can.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I'd be wary of eating any grains, nuts etc in the first few days, they're harder to digest and can clog up your colon as well as any starches can.


That's what I said but it was advice given on the Internet: Guidelines for Breaking a Fast | AllAboutFasting

----------


## ENT

Weigh yourself at the same time each day, best is mornings after your first piss and a shit and before drinking or eating anything.

A pint of water = 0.6 kilos.

----------


## ENT

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> I'd be wary of eating any grains, nuts etc in the first few days, they're harder to digest and can clog up your colon as well as any starches can.
> 
> 
> That's what I said but it was advice given on the Internet: Guidelines for Breaking a Fast | AllAboutFasting


Good guidelines on that website.

Put your raw veges through a blender with added water or fruit juice to make a drinkable meal, more easily digested, and uncooked, contains more enzymes for digestion.

Acidophilus yoghurt is excellent help in increasing mucus secretion in the stomach and gut, as well as providing necessary probiotics to kill off harmfull bacteria in the colon.

----------


## stroller

Watch out for hidden additives/sugar in cereal.

----------


## Dillinger

His body will notice how long he goes without food now and slow its metabolism right down. 

He'll have that weight back on in no time :Smile:

----------


## BaitongBoy

> Have to get down to the opticians...Thought it was a fisting thread!


Whatever for?...Bend over and take it like a man...Or a chick with a dick...

----------


## Munted

> I've fasted whenever necessary, in times of illness and as a method of reducing calorie intake to a necessary minimum for life extension.  Self control is the key to all that, one has a choice.  Now, at 70 yoa I fast periodically, maybe a day or two a week, maintaining my calorie intake at 40% lower than standard for my weight etc. and muscular and ATP energy levels at optimum.  I also do a few hours (max 2 -3 hours a day), about 4 -5 days a week exercise, walking, resistance bands, push and pulls, squats, 5kg dumbells, hand grips, bike rides'


Good on you ENT man, most 70 yoa I know have one foot in the grave. You seem to be doing all the right things.

----------


## billy the kid

> What colour and consistency?


I reckon he could be pissing it out his arse into a bottle for reuse.
A new trend. save 2 baht.

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by wjblaney
> 
> ...


I thought blood oxygen levels were measured as a percentage. Or were you referring to your blood pressure? 




> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> That is nowhere near enough. Some multivitamins don't contain any potassium at all whereas others provide a tiny amount. For example, Centrum Men doesn't contain any potassium. Centrum Performance contains only 80mg.  US guidelines say adults should consume 4.7g a day (4,700mg) UK guidelines say 3.5g a day.  After 4 weeks of a water fast, you could have seriously low levels of potassium in your body. Look up the importance of it to your diet, your body, your blood - and your heart! And ask your doctor to check your blood potassium levels.
> 
> 
> Don't bananas, as well as beans, dark leafy greens, yogurt, fish, avocados and mushrooms, have a lot of potassium? .


Yes, they do, but you haven't eaten any for 30 days! I'm sure you have a serious potassium deficit, and if true, it could potentially be a serious health issue for you.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> serious potassium deficit


After a 60lb weight loss due to a total inability to retain nutrients after stomach surgery, I had a stroke. A potassium deficit leading to a sudden blood pressure crash was, they believed, the probable cause.

----------


## Neverna

Potassium is something most people don't realise the importance of. It is vital for our good health, especially the heart. Hearts can miss beats due to a lack of it and potentially stop beating altogether. Mr Blaney really should get his level checked by a doctor. He may need urgent medical supplementation.

----------


## Latindancer

> Good on you ENT man, most 70 yoa I know have one foot in the grave. You seem to be doing all the right things.


Yes, we'll just overlook that he once admitted to having been a tobacco smoker for 50 years. Not to mention the drinking.

----------


## ENT

^^^ That is scary. Potassium and magnesium are the two minerals I now make sure I have enough of.

Eat bananas.    :Smile:

----------


## ENT

> Originally Posted by Munted
> 
> 
> 
> Good on you ENT man, most 70 yoa I know have one foot in the grave. You seem to be doing all the right things.
> 
> 
> Yes, we'll just overlook that he once admitted to having been a tobacco smoker for 50 years. Not to mention the drinking.


That's rich coming from a hypocritical self-confessed wardrobe drinker and smoker as you are!     :smiley laughing:

----------


## Davis Knowlton

The only medication I now take is one potassium pill daily. You can get what you need in some multivitamins, but need to check the small print to ensure it meets potassium minimum daily requirement.

----------


## ENT

> Potassium is something most people don't realise the importance of. It is vital for our good health, especially the heart. Hearts can miss beats due to a lack of it and potentially stop beating altogether. Mr Blaney really *should get his level checked by a doctor.* He may need urgent medical supplementation.


That's what I suggested earlier to someone else on TD.

It costs about Bt 1,500 for a full blood analysis at CM Maharaj hospital and well worth the money.

----------


## Neverna

I try to eat lots of bananas and drink plenty of milk. There's about 422mg of potassium in a large banana and 150g of potassium per 100ml of milk. So a couple of bananas and a large glass of milk in the morning is  a good start to the day. Potatoes are another good source, so that's lunch sorted. Beans are also a good source, so an evening meal or a light snack of them is good for the diet.

----------


## ENT

> Good on you ENT man, most 70 yoa I know have one foot in the grave. You seem to be doing all the right things.


Hopefully, and thanks for that.    :Smile:

----------


## ENT

> I try to eat lots of bananas and drink plenty of milk. There's about 422mg of potassium in a large banana and 150g of potassium per 100ml of milk. So a couple of bananas and a large glass of milk in the morning is  a good start to the day. Potatoes are another good source, so that's lunch sorted.


Yoghurt, milk and bananas are daily items on my menu along with various nuts grains  and seeds ground up and eaten with raw oats, no sugar.

Greens can be a fwk up as all veges available are polluted with agricultural poisons.

The only clean greens I get these days are some from my organic gardening friends and the rest comes from sprouted seeds, beans etc....lovely flavours, and cheap and easy to grow.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Put your raw veges through a blender with added water or fruit juice to make a drinkable meal, more easily digested, and uncooked, contains more enzymes for digestion.


The lady did that at the shop for me, filling 2 32 oz contains with 50% water and 50% fresh veggies: then 2 other identical containers with the same combo of fresh fruit.




> Watch out for hidden additives/sugar in cereal.


Kellogg's All-Bran: Wheat bran (85%), malt extract, salt, vitamins (riboflavin, folate, thiamin). (Natural source of iron, zinc and magnesium.) 13.3 grams dietary fiber, 

Essential Waitrose wholegrain bran flakes: whole grain wheat (69%) wheat bran (15%), sugar, barley malt extract, salt, iron, vitamins. 16 grams of fiber.

Post Shredded Wheat 'n Branh: Whole Grain Wheat and Wheat Bran. BHT added to the packaging material as a preservative, which just pissed me off.

Wheat Bix: 97% whole grain wheat, raw sugar, salt, barley malt extract, vitamins. Not much fiber, 3.3 grams, but I like it.




> His body will notice how long he goes without food now and slow its metabolism right down.  He'll have that weight back on in no time


Everybody gains 5 lbs back immediately. Strange how that seems to be a consensus. No way I'll gain all that I've lost back. I've already said I'll prolly fast 2 days a week from now on. In 1980 I lost 60-70 lbs (from 220 to 150 or 160) fasting 23 hours every day, and continued that fast for 33 years, never gaining back any more than 10-15 lbs of muscle until I gave up the diet 3 years ago.

So I'll either go back on that diet (third on the following list) or some other intermittent diet. My diet includes snacks which is more appealing than the first time. So I'm leaning towards that or #4 right now bc it includes a 36 hour fast every week. No. 5 is out bc I won't count calories: 5 Intermittent Fasting Methods: Which One Is Best for You?

There are many other web sites on intermittent fasting. 

Final rule for my new plan: unless it's a cheat or rest day, if I'm not exercising, I'll be fasting.




> I reckon he could be pissing it out his arse into a bottle for reuse. A new trend. save 2 baht.


 :Wtf:

----------


## ENT

> Kellogg's All-Bran: 
> Essential Waitrose wholegrain bran flakes
> Post Shredded Wheat 'n Branh:
> Wheat Bix:


Don't eat any of that processed crap, it'll kill ya, especially immediately after a fast.                                                           They  will also swell in your gut as you can't eat it dry.
All contain anything from weedkiller to sugar, not needed after a fast.
All commercially produced food is contaminated, even 'organic' foods.

Read the fine print on your vitamin packets, check the product on the net if need be, make sure its got no fluorides and other 'carrier' compounds.

Just stick to watered down fruit juices and raw vege purees and yoghurt for the first day or so, _then_ start eating cooked foods like soups and baked or steamed kumera (sweet potato), or banana, soft dietary fibre.

*Monodiet*. Eat only one type of food at a meal. Allow it to digest for an hour or two, then eat something else, different enzymes for different foods. Raw is best, full of living enzymes to digest the food with.

No more than a heaped handful of food at a sitting, is best to start with.

Why not continue with a juice fast? Using real, fresh, organic as possible fruit, not packet stuff though.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Don't eat any of that processed crap, it'll kill ya, especially immediately after a fast. They will also swell in your gut as you can't eat it dry. All contain anything from weedkiller to sugar, not needed after a fast. All commercially produced food is contaminated, even 'organic' foods.


You only mean the Shredded Wheat 'n Bran, surely (contains bht. I didn't see anything processed or preserved in the other two).




> Why not continue with a juice fast? Using real, fresh, organic as possible fruit, not packet stuff though.


That's a good question but I believe in strength, stamina and endurance training equally. And the loss of all 3 to the extent that I have is unacceptable if not totally past extreme.

And since I'll be continuing fasting regularly, I'll find out quickly if I should have done what you suggested.

----------


## billy the kid

Once again wjb apologies. regret postin that. not nice.

----------


## Sumbitch

OK, went to the hospital at about 01:/00 AM today. Had to see a doctor about a skin rash, which I did. Then weighed myself (74.6 kg/164.5 lbs), had my blood pressure measured (100/70 & 107/77) and my blood oxygen level went back up to 95/100. So the rate of weight loss was .9 kg/2 lbs but I'm convinced to stop the fast now. I guess I could continue to lose weight but those two increases in blood pressure and blood oxygen are encouraging markers of better health in the last 5 days. Plus, if I stop now, I won't be completely discouraged from adding an intermittent diet into my exercise routine. I want to include a fast every week without interrupting a 5 or 6 day exercise regimen. Knowing that the next time I fast, losing some weight can still be expected will be an encouragement.

So, cheers to my first glass of meal of veggie juice!

----------


## billy the kid

Well done. enjoy.

----------


## Munted

> Yes, we'll just overlook that he once admitted to having been a tobacco smoker for 50 years. Not to mention the drinking.


He gave up that's to be applauded. Also the excellent diet will mitigate the effects of alcohol.  Google drinking man's diet.

----------


## Munted

^ Whatever crazy diet it is  OK if it results in an overall calorie reduction & doesn't kill you.  CR is scientifically proven to increase life span. And his brown rice thing was possibly more than what Japanese POW's got & many of them went on to live long lives.

----------


## ENT

(this post meant for LD)    You're talking garbage again, girly.

If you're bowels are functioning normally, you can eat pretty much what you like, within reason.

In WJB's case, they're not, so a gradual breaking of a water fast is essential, as I've described.

Oh, that's right, you're a sick vegetarian who can't process meat, but drinks alcohol and smokes.

----------


## Latindancer

> If you're bowels


 ENT : if you want to have credibility here, it would help to progress past grade 4 spelling.

----------


## ENT

:smiley laughing: 




Pedantic maggot.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Welcome to Day 31....Is that right?...

----------


## ENT

Must be. 

First breakfast day. Has he surfaced yet? 

If not, he could be otherwise engaged in bowel movements, poor chap.

It can be like shitting a brick after two weeks of no go.

----------


## Dillinger

Nope....he's capitulated, forgot what hole to eat with and is probably back in that hospital he frequents daily, having a courgette pulled out of his ringpiece

----------


## ENT

Ah g'w'an, don't be so cruel!   :Smile:

----------


## Dillinger

Just a stab in the dark :Smile:

----------


## ENT

Gawd!!   :Confused:

----------


## ENT

[QUOTE=Dillinger;3300238.... in that hospital he frequents daily, having a courgette pulled out of his ringpiece[/QUOTE]

An enema.

----------


## Dillinger

I reckon hes gone back to that hospital again and hes now down to the right figure to fit into a Thai sized.......

----------


## Sumbitch

> Yes, we'll just overlook that he once admitted to having been a tobacco smoker for 50 years.


That's a Lie.




> Not to mention the drinking.


So what do you want to mention about the drinking?

----------


## ENT

G'day, what's your break fast like?

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 32?..

----------


## Latindancer

> Originally Posted by Latindancer
> 
> Yes, we'll just overlook that he once admitted to having been a tobacco smoker for 50 years.
> 
> 
> That's a Lie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's true. Would you like me to find the post ?

I mentioned his drinking because :

He referred to me as a wardrobe drinker, and because both his physical and mental health are, at best, precarious.....and because he doesn't always practise what he preaches.
Ending even a brown rice fast the way he did is asinine.

----------


## ENT

^ More garbage.

----------


## Dillinger

This thread gets more retarded by the minute

LD, WJ obviously thinks that was directed at him.

He's probably not aware of yours and ENT's bromance on here :Smile:

----------


## PeeCoffee

Congratulations WBJ.
A banana 'icee' might be in order for you (lactose free as I don't think yoghurt is allowed in the initial couple of days).
I'll dream of a pastrami-'reuben' on dark pumperknickel from Cantors or Greenblatts in your honour. Job well done

----------


## ENT

I hope WJB's OK. 

Not like him to not talk about his fast for two days.

----------


## billy the kid

> what's your break fast like?


like it.




> I hope WJB's OK.


will be a shock to his system and yes i do hope he's all ok.


who cares if he's had a few drinks or smokes; wjb has done ok.
still here right ?

----------


## Neverna

He'll be stuck on the toilet with his bowels getting their revenge.

----------


## Jackanapes

> who cares if he's had a few drinks or smokes


Regarding the former I would imagine that most of us have!

----------


## ENT

If he's stuck to watered down fruit and veg juices for the first few days after the fast he'll be ok.

Any starches eaten in the first day or so will just turn to glue in him.

----------


## Sumbitch

WoW, so many posts to follow up on.




> He gave up that's to be applauded. Also the excellent diet will mitigate the effects of alcohol. Google drinking man's diet.


I belong to a rock climbing club. We call ourselves the drinking club that climbs.




> CR is scientifically proven to increase life span.


Sorry, don't know what CR is.




> And his brown rice thing was possibly more than what Japanese POW's got & many of them went on to live long lives.


 :rofl:  Sorry, never, EVER (for LD's sake) mention or even try a brown rice diet (although, I did look it up).




> In WJB's case, they're not, so a gradual breaking of a water fast is essential, as I've described.


yeah, I kinda changed my mind, although I had the first 4 days' menus down to a T. Result: heartburn, but nothing a dose of Alka-Seltzer...once...couldn't end.




> Nope....he's capitulated


I hope you noticed that green I gave for this quote.  :Wink: 




> G'day, what's your break fast like?


First day, got into the whole foods too fast.

Second day, I woke up at 2:30 AM. Ate a bowl of whole wheat flakes with added bran and sweetened with raw honey 'bout 6. A-OK on my normal diet but the result was heartburn today so I took a 2 hour walk. One hour into it, I had my first BM...ahhh. But today I started taking Mucilin (a powdered fiber additive taken with a two glasses of water), post meals. The fiber in cereals simply isn't enough. The BM was nothing like constipation, nor did I have a blood along with it. I just want better regularity with less struggle. 

The rest of the day I've just had raw fruit: papaya, Delicious! My first taste and not too sweet (so low carb also). And supposed to help with delivery, right Ent? Thanks very much for the suggestion. Also, just finished another bowl of low in sugar fruit: grapefruit, also delicious.




> Day 32?..


Yeah, and no problems except for that first bout of heartburn. In other words, since the Alka-Selzer, walk and getting a little more reasonable about what to put in my stomach.

But listen, man! I've been taking all kinds of medication for the diseases I've got: osteoarthritis and chronic bronchitis. Today I gave up all of them, except for Symbicort inhaler for the bronchitis/asthma and tramadol (no more than the max. daily dosage) as I still need a pain killer for the OA. And it's working!!!

PLUS, I've started exercising again and will continue with the cardio and start lifting on Mon. (3 days a week).

Why I've been MIA is because I've settled on my new diet plan (including fasting). It's called Eat Stop Eat and it's the second one listed here 5 Intermittent Fasting Methods: Which One Is Best for You?

The one thing it's not clear about is the exercise routine I've settled on which will have to get me back on the treadmill to run 10 k in an hour in between my lifting days. I know my legs are too weak to start running yet. But longer and faster walks should get me there in a month. Fingers crossed.




> He referred to me as a wardrobe drinker


Liar.




> and because both his physical and mental health are, at best, precarious..


I'll agree to that, np. In fact have to see a psychiatrist to keep my tramadol prescription, even though I know where to buy it OTC.  :Wink: 




> and because he doesn't always practise what he preaches.


Again, I concur.




> Ending even a brown rice fast the way he did is asinine.


See my reply above to the brown rice diet. But I'd love to ask you: how did it end?




> Congratulations WBJ.


Gratitude, Pee.  :Wink: 




> I don't think yoghurt is allowed in the initial couple of days


Sure it is: plain unsweetened. One cup yesterday and I was done with it. Had to have 3 cups of the fruity yogurt just to get the taste out of my mouth.




> Job well done


Humbly accept your congratulations on a job that needed to get done.




> I hope WJB's OK.  Not like him to not talk about his fast for two days.


Starting exercising, deciding on a diet plan including water fasting that fits into a 5 days a week exercise plan is pretty time consuming while implementing it is in progress.




> will be a shock to his system and yes i do hope he's all ok.


Doing G-r-r-reat.




> still here right ?


Still right here.




> He'll be stuck on the toilet with his bowels getting their revenge.


Explained above. Hope fresh papaya plus the Mucilin supplement is enough 'to get the job done well'.

----------


## Sumbitch

> If he's stuck to watered down fruit and veg juices for the first few days after the fast he'll be ok.


Mama-san's watered down fruit juices are all down the toilette and replaced with cartons of raspberry juice, which is the only low to medium sweet fruit juice I dig. 

But her watered down veggie juices are something to write home about. 32 oz. yesterday and will drink or flush the remaining 32 oz. soon bc freshness really matters in this case.




> Any starches eaten in the first day or so will just turn to glue in him.


I'm on a high protein, low carb, high fiber, good fats diet. But the cereals I've mentioned definitely have some carbs.

Oh, one more supplement I've added, thanks to you: potassium (bc bananas are too sweet). The two pills (or maybe each pill) a day are 500 mg of potassium.

----------


## Neverna

> Oh, one more supplement I've added, thanks to you: potassium (bc bananas are too sweet). The two pills (or maybe each pill) a day are 500 mg of potassium.


Was it easy to find them? I've never been able to find potassium supplements in Thailand, but thankfully it's easy to find foods with plenty of potassium (like your plain youghurt). And there's always the ORS or sports drinks to add some potassium too (375mg in a sachet of ORS).

----------


## ENT

Ah, y're alive and well, that's good WJB.  :Smile:

----------


## ENT

> ^ Whatever crazy diet it is  OK if it results in an overall calorie reduction & doesn't kill you.  CR is scientifically proven to increase life span. And his brown rice thing was possibly more than what Japanese POW's got & many of them went on to live long lives.


True.

CR's a proven life extending practice. Another method is mega doses of Vit B3, peanuts and tuna and other foods.

A brown rice diet's quite pleasant if the rice is cooked properly and there are small, really limited additions of salt, nuts, greens, garlic, ginger, chili, herbs and cooking oil if doing physical work.

A lot of that diet's centred around eating and drinking very little.

A really strict brown rice diet's just that, plus _gomazio_ (ground salt and roasted sesame seeds) and water.

----------


## ENT

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> He'll be stuck on the toilet with his bowels getting their revenge.
> 
> 
> Explained above. Hope fresh papaya plus the Mucilin supplement is enough 'to get the job done well'.


Prunes are a well known remedy...... :Smile:

----------


## billy the kid

> Prunes


please ENT easy easy does it.    :Smile: 

Great news wjb.     steady as you go.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Was it easy to find them? I've never been able to find potassium supplements in Thailand, but thankfully it's easy to find foods with plenty of potassium (like your plain youghurt). And there's always the ORS or sports drinks to add some potassium too (375mg in a sachet of ORS).


My pharmacy is directly across from Tops and right next to Truevisions on the bottom floor of the Kad Suan Kaew mall in Chiang Mai, which in itself is hard to find (just joking). But my pharmacist has everything or knows what it is and most likely where to get it. If I'm prescribed a medicine for the first time and never have heard of it, I tell the doctor at Chiang Mai Ram Hospital 'Just write the name down. My pharmacist will have it.'

375 mg in a sachet of ORS? That sounds good enough, eh?




> Ah, y're alive and well, that's good WJB.


Yeah, good.




> Great news wjb. steady as you go.


I'll try.  :Wink: 




> Prunes are a well known remedy......


My Mom's favorite. I prefer Sunsweet prune juice (available at Tops). 16-20 oz.  :Smile:

----------


## BaitongBoy

Day 33...Cheers, blaney...

----------


## Latindancer

WJB....I was not referring to you in my various previous posts. I was criticising ENT.

----------


## ENT

As usual.

----------


## Munted

> True.
> 
> CR's a proven life extending practice. Another method is mega doses of Vit B3, peanuts and tuna and other foods.


E, you do know I am friendly to your approach. But peanuts?? I am about to lose confidence.

----------


## ENT

Peanuts are a great source of protein, < 25%
They also have a lot of VitB3, as does tuna.

Mega-dosing with VitB3, or it's more complex development, nicotinamide riboside, will extend life span and slow the aging process also.

VitB3 was discovered years ago (1953) to slow the advances of the age related diseases, such as alzheimers, cancer, diabetes and atherosclerosis, as well as being effective in repairing the telomeres in your DNA so slowing the aging process.

----------


## Sumbitch

> WJB....I was not referring to you in my various previous posts. I was criticising ENT.


God, sorry for assuming otherwise. I apologize.  :sorry2:

----------


## Latindancer

That's ok. As Dillinger noticed.....it had become quite comical  :Smile: 


Peanuts are extremely difficult for some people to digest. And they often contain aflatoxins, which are a potent liver carcinogen.....hence (presumably) peanut allergies.

Almonds, preferably pesticide-free, are a much better source of protein.

Tuna is very high up the food chain, and may contain anything from PCBs to mercury.

----------


## billy the kid

Just get some rice and fish into your gut followed by a nice cuppa.    :Smile:

----------


## Latindancer

And more papaya....it's magic stuff for healing and cleansing your gut.

----------


## BaitongBoy

What?...Is it over now?...Are ye back at McDonald's yet, mate?...

----------


## snakeeyes

*Hopefully he will put a bit of weight on now , 


*

----------


## BaitongBoy

^ With Daffy martinis?...Heh...

----------


## Neverna

> *Hopefully he will put a bit of weight on now , 
> 
> 
> *


He'll put on a couple of kg this week as his intestines fill up again.

----------


## ENT

Not a word from WJB for a couple of days again.

I hope he's not feeding on weetbix.

----------


## BaitongBoy

He's porking her as we speak...Heh...

----------


## BaitongBoy

Hey, what's the scoop, blaney?...Been a few days without a peep, so to speak...

You okay?...

----------


## ENT

It could be the prunes.

----------


## billy the kid

They would confuse the gut when trying to fill-up.

----------


## BaitongBoy

How many fingers do you see, blaney?...

----------


## snakeeyes

*No Blaney in 7 days I hope all is well , 
*

----------


## Neverna

Does anyone live near him who can check up on him?









Or read the local press for "Emaciated body of foreigner found lying in the street"?

----------


## ENT

What's his physical address?

----------


## Neverna

Chiang Mai, isn't it? He has given clues in this thread as to his exact location. Perhaps someone who knows Chiang Mai well can take a wander in the neighbourhood and locate him.

----------


## ENT

He gave clues to his exact location? 
I don't see how. He mentions a hospital,(which one?) a pharmacy near it, a juice bar and a grocery store, and maybe a gym.

Chiangmai's a big city with many hospitals.

I suppose I could go around asking if anyone's seen a skinny, ageing farang health freak wandering around on drugs looking like he needed a decent sh *t, but that description would fit half the older farang generation of Chiangmai.  :Smile: 

The average somchai around here would think I was nuts asking such stupid questions.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Last post: July 1st at 5:30 pm...

----------


## Cujo

Quite possible his intestinal tract had trouble getting going again after the moron closed it down for a month.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Last activity: July 1st, 8:40 pm...

----------


## ENT

> Quite possible his intestinal tract had trouble getting going again after the moron closed it down for a month.


Cancelled his enema appointment too.

That breakfast wish list he made up would have blocked him up solid if he'd eaten it.

Weetbix, shredded wheat, whole grain bread...and a stack of meds.

----------


## Iceman123

He's either stuck on the bog or cacked it. If the latter his next fast will be a long one. :Smile:

----------


## snakeeyes

*I hope he wasn't living in Koh samui , 

http://www.samuitimes.com/british-to...-in-koh-samui/
*

----------


## ENT

Ooooer!

Nah, maybe not, WJB described himself as older than the Brit in the article.

Besides, isn't WJB an American?

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Was wondering as well where he got off to......I think he's a Yank...early 60's as I recall.

----------


## Dillinger

Found this on farangdeaths.com

Looks like he carked it after curling one out.







http://i1.wp.com/www.farang-deaths.c...size=340%2C198

----------


## Latindancer

Or as Terry so aptly puts it : "backing out a nasty boy".  :Smile:

----------


## snakeeyes

*We're looking for a dead American the above is Swedish , 
*
Farang Deaths ? Documenting deaths of foreigners in Thailand

----------


## Neverna

I always assumed this photo on his profile page is of him: 

64 or 65 years old. American.

----------


## snakeeyes

*^
Here's a recent pic , 
*

----------


## Neverna

> He gave clues to his exact location? 
> I don't see how. He mentions a hospital,(which one?) a pharmacy near it, a juice bar and a grocery store, and maybe a gym.
> 
> Chiangmai's a big city with many hospitals.
> 
> I suppose I could go around asking if anyone's seen a skinny, ageing farang health freak wandering around on drugs looking like he needed a decent sh *t, but that description would fit half the older farang generation of Chiangmai.


Try the Srithana Condo 2, near the Kad Suan Kaew mall, and ask for Bill Blaney.

----------


## Dillinger

A google search on that photo links him to a Nepalese forum and username shehateme

New members of the Thailand forum, introduce yourself here page 4, Thailand forum

I shall leave the rest of the snooping to you fukkers :Smile:

----------


## ENT

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> 
> He gave clues to his exact location? 
> I don't see how. He mentions a hospital,(which one?) a pharmacy near it, a juice bar and a grocery store, and maybe a gym.
> 
> Chiangmai's a big city with many hospitals.
> 
> I suppose I could go around asking if anyone's seen a skinny, ageing farang health freak wandering around on drugs looking like he needed a decent sh *t, but that description would fit half the older farang generation of Chiangmai. 
> ...


I rang Srithana condo reception about an hour ago but got got no reply, so will try again in the morning, see if he's there and/or needs a visit.

No recent activity on his facebook page.

----------


## Dillinger

They probably dont work weekends.

----------


## Sumbitch

Sorry folks, for not answering any posts that may have been (and still are) out there for me, for the last week or more, prolly. 

But I have been incorporating a new fasting routine (Eat Stop Eat) which is no. 2 on this list 5 Intermittent Fasting Methods: Which One Is Best for You?

I know I'm a little bent but this last M-F was the first full week of exercise, defined by me as strength, stamina and endurance training (until someone else can come up with a little catchier phrase I can use as my motto) I've had in a minimum of 3 mos. And it's so long that I've forgotten (about 3 years) when I used to incorporate a regular fasting method into my weekly fitness plan--called The Warrior Diet and no. 3 on the link above. And there is, of course, a healthy nutrition plan, which would confuse me to death (look at those 5 options on that link: some plans say you can eat what you want--like mine. Others are strict about your diet--LIKE ME). So having gotten all of that worked out, I feel great. M, W, F are devoted to weights and I was so excited I spent 2 hours in the gym on M and W and 1.67 hours on F (_legs_). The overall evaluation of my gym workouts is I don't recall ever being so weak. The two days I devoted to running on a treadmill won't take nearly so long to get up to speed: 10 k in 60 minutes twice a week. The weekends are my 2 water fasting days. 

I actually spent some time the week before this one doing a long (4 hour) walk bc I thought I'd never be able to run again. But like I knew deep down. The real long walks will let you get on the treadmill again. And I jumped right on it w/o hesitation. But Tue. I jumped right off again after 40 minutes and only 5 k. Thu. was better: about 8.5 k in 60 minutes. So you guys into running out there, I still believe it's the best exercise for maintaining/losing weight and other good things like building muscles around and supporting your joints, i.e., knee and hip.

I'm enjoying some new weight lifting exercises: dead lifts (which I can't resist doing twice a week, one for leg day and one for back day and they're separated by 4 days in between), hack squats, machine squats, leg raises-side to side-up-and-down. So I feel very much invigorated. And the importance of _that_ cannot be overemphasized. I've finally realized the importance of taking a painkiller specific to osteoarthritis (one cap per day) by letting effects wear off by going well over 24 hours without re-dosing and I swear to God I didn't want to get up. I mean I am talking about immobilization. That is scary. Popped that pill though (Celebrex) and almost immediately popped out of bed. My other daily medicine is an inhaler called Symbicort which is for my asthma or chronic bronchitis: indeterminate by specialists in LOS and the States. So before I you let you go off the topic of the 30 day water fast, it gave me the courage to put the 15 pills (*15*) I had been taking daily and put them on the shelf where they may be needed for the twice per year 2 week episodes of cold-like symptoms that I'm used to having and was the indicator of chronic bronchitis. But when I showed the Thai specialist the x rays and conclusion (indeterminate) of my L.A. specialist, he completely concurred. So it was my L.A. physician who was smart enough to prescribe Symbicort and just once a day. And it's very easy to know when it's been over 24 hours---I start coughing. 

Man, if this is not the story of my fooking life...just shows you WTF.  :Wtf: 

Here's another reality (actually it's a French fictional series called Braquo) that I've preferred more than TD lately. But I'm starting the last season, recorded so far, today (8 50 min. episodes) and when I'm done with that, I'm sure I won't find anything else online less boring than TD. Now that I mentioned it (I'm sure you'll find links to all three seasons on this thread https://teakdoor.com/the-multimedia-f...endations.html (Movie/tv download recommendations)). But to save you the hassle you'll find all three seasons (and they should be watched in order bc the beginning of season 2 picks up where 1 ended, etc.) Here's the torrent link (and grab the ones that say *Braquo* Season 2 Complete FRENCH w/ ENG Subs 720p BluRay x264-HazMatt for ex.): https://kat.cr/usearch/braquo/

One more final thing about the fast. The last two days have actually been my second 2 day fast. Last week the same days as this week with Sunday being my breakfast or cheat day (but not yet). I just wanted to be sure there would be no problems by starting off the week before my full exercise regimen had begun with the 2 day fast. Then I weighed myself last Sun., I think it was, and i_t_ was78.5-79 k/173-174 lbs. Today I weighed 77.2-76.7/170-169 lbs. So the fasting works in slomo too  :Slomo:

----------


## ENT

You have risen from the dead!

Hallelujah!   :Smile:

----------


## Munted

Gosh I do admire your determination. For sure if you are influenced by Buddhist philosophy greed is one aspect to suffering. I found this assertion I could easily accept as you don't have to go far in my home country to see this suffering from greed. If you are also of the opinion that there is no such thing as an 'I', which is actually just a social and cultural construction, you will also know that hunger is also a social and cultural construction and that a real hunger is nothing at all like a habit for eating which is often masqueraded as hunger.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Welcome back to the Buffalo Board, blaney...

There are rules, you know...Call someone if you're gonna stay out past eleven on a school night, ffs...

Some people were worried for you, dontchaknow?...

----------


## Dillinger

Have a look out your window, can you see ENT? :Smile:

----------


## Neverna

^  :Smile: 

Mr Blaney, tell us about your eating since you finished the water diet, and about your bowel movements too.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Glad he's ok. But I still think this quest for eternal youth is quite pointless. Exercise an hour a day, eat and sleep well, and try to eliminate, not cause, stress in your life. In the end, next year you will still be a year older. We all age Bill, it's part of the deal.

----------


## ENT

Good points.

----------


## Cujo

> Glad he's ok. But I still think this quest for eternal youth is quite pointless. Exercise an hour a day, eat and sleep well, and try to eliminate, not cause, stress in your life. In the end, next year you will still be a year older. We all age Bill, it's part of the deal.


Sound. Got to spread the love before I can green you.
This whole exercise an exercise in futility if you ask me.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Let's hear the tale of the tape...

----------


## ENT

> Let's hear the tale of the tapeworm...


Fixed that for ya.

----------


## BaitongBoy

^ Heh...

----------


## Sumbitch

> Try the Srithana Condo 2, near the Kad Suan Kaew mall, and ask for Bill Blaney.


Fantastic detective work!




> I rang Srithana condo reception about an hour ago but got got no reply, so will try again in the morning, see if he's there and/or needs a visit.  No recent activity on his facebook page.


Really sorry about causing so much wonderment.  :Laugh2:  Everybody's been really cool about me and were pretty right on about my age: 65, turning 66 in Nov. In all honesty (gulp), that pic is prolly 8 years old, though.

----------


## ENT

Hope things are good for ya Bill, just wondering about how that first crap turned out though!    :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

You know these long delays between my replies would never have happened  if I hadn't stopped getting instant email notifications when a reply is  posted. I've checked my profile and the instant notification box was  checked. So I changed it to daily notification to see if that works.  Anybody else have that problem? (My reply to that question will be  coming within the next year or so.  :Smile: 

Oh, somebody asked about my diet: tasty fruit, All-Bran, protein shakes, yogurt, oatmeal, non-fat milk  that makes up most of my diet on the other 5 days a week. But I do cheat with ice cream, chocolate, cakes and sweets of all other varieties.

And about BMs: the answer to that one is one  fairly large bowl of All-Bran daily is all I need in my diet. I'm sure  prunes would work but don't know how many would be necessary daily. I  used to take a weekly laxative purge with prune juice (15-20 oz). But,  obviously, that meant my diet was worthless.

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## ENT

I reckon the oatmeal, yoghurt, milk, protein shakes (not too much), fruit and veges and if possible nuts and fish, along with daily exercise will keep you fit and healthy.

Keep well.

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## Sumbitch

> Gosh I do admire your determination. For sure if you are  influenced by Buddhist philosophy greed is one aspect to suffering. I  found this assertion I could easily accept as you don't have to go far  in my home country to see this suffering from greed. If you are also of  the opinion that there is no such thing as an 'I', which is actually  just a social and cultural construction, you will also know that hunger  is also a social and cultural construction and that a real hunger is  nothing at all like a habit for eating which is often masqueraded as  hunger.


Thank you for the compliment. And those are interesting observations, or shall I say truths, about the 'I' and greed. 

I'm a believer in the Vedanta philosophy and its similarities and dissimilarities with Buddhism so I'll give you a quote that I found by googling "was Buddha a Hindu?": 


> Gautama *Buddha* is viewed as an avatar of the god Vishnu in Vaishnava *Hinduism*. *Buddhist* teachings do not rely on the Vedas, are non-theistic and deny the reality of the self or Ātman; consequently, *Hindu* philosophers classified Buddhism as nāstika or heterodoxy within the scheme of *Hinduism*.


  So, of course, you're right that Buddhist beliefs deny the reality of self. However, the 'self' and 'ego' are Vedantic truths. My guru, Swami Shraddhananda, who died in 1996, published an article called The Ego and The Self The Ego and the Self - Vedanta Society of Southern California (I used to belong to the Vedanta Society of Southern California, btw, but it has been decades since I was an active member). I want to quote the following passage to get your opinion on the differences between the Buddhist and Vedantic beliefs about the self: 



> The ego and the Self stand at two opposite ends of our spiritual  journey. Our inquiry begins with the ego and culminates in the  realization of the Self.
>  Broadly speaking, the ego can be taken as that part of the mind which  expresses individuality. It is the ego that gives us the sense of I  and mine....The experience of the Self is quite different from the experience of the  ego. It does not have to take the form of I am. For the sake of  contemplation we have to use such language as I am of the nature of  eternal bliss, eternal knowledge, but in actual experience there is no  question of I. The actual experience cannot be described in the  language of the ego.


 Here's another good quote from the book Vedanta: An Art of Dying: 


> And remember, egolessness is possible only if you are here and now. If you move in the past, if you move in the future, the _ego_ will persist.


I found this answer when I googled "What is the main cause of suffering in Buddhism?" 


> The Second Truth, on the other hand, seeks to determine the *cause of suffering*. In *Buddhism*, desire and ignorance lie at the root of *suffering*. By desire, *Buddhists* refer to craving pleasure, material goods, and immortality, all of which are wants that can never be satisfied.


Then I googled "what is the cause of suffering in Vedanta". Vedanta seems to have many factions. So I chose to follow Sri Ramakrishna in 1994. One of his disciples was Swami Vivekananda. So I chose the following answer from Swami Vivekananda's teachings (http://www.ramakrishna.org/activitie...message5.htm): 


> The sufferings of life,       according to Vedanta, are not due to the retribution of God, to luck,       chance, hostile stars and planets, or to any external agency like Satan,       Iblis, the Devil, or Ahriman. Vedanta attributes five causes of suffering,       and these are: (1) loss of contact with the real that is the center of our       being, the Atman; (2) ego; (3) attachment; (4) aversion; and (5) clinging.       Loss of contact with the real forces the individual into the world of ego       - a fanciful world of polarization, imagination, and dream. Birth and       death, pain and pleasure, here and hereafter, the law of karma and       reincarnation, all apply to the ego and its world. The way to the end of       suffering is neither multiplication of desires nor their liquidation, but       Self-Knowledge through self-control.


 As you can see the answer is a bit more complex, thoughtful and logical, IMNSFHO. That is the attractiveness of Vedanta to me. And thanks to your post, I find myself more excited than ever about practicing spirituality, living here in the east, right next door to India, possibly preparing to live my final days as a mystic.


Swami Vivekananda

Swami Vivekananda Bengali, Shāmi Bibekānondo; 12 January 1863  4  July 1902, born Narendranath Datta, was an Indian Hindu monk, a chief  disciple of the 19th-century Indian mystic Ramakrishna.



Doing good to others is virtue (Dharma); 
injuring others is sin.
 Swami Vivekananda

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## Sumbitch

> Glad he's ok. But I still think this quest  for eternal youth is quite pointless. Exercise an hour a day, eat and  sleep well, and try to eliminate, not cause, stress in your life. In the  end, next year you will still be a year older. We all age Bill, it's  part of the deal.


I have to quote Cujo's reply, below, as the first part of my answer (although it's the last part) bc I don't have enough green available for you either.

And I think philosophy is part of the deal, too, as my mind won't allow me  to believe that once I'm dead, that's the end of my life as well. And I think your post is  philosophical in the sense that you seem to be saying 'simplify your  health goals'. That's fine, as long as you're alive.

So the  philosophical side of me then wants to ask you 'Does it all boil down to the process  of aging?' I mean who wants eternal youth? I certainly don't want my  youth back. But I do admit to the quest for feeling better physically,  spiritually and mentally. At the very least that requires  concentration, determination and devotion. Devotion is also  definable as love. My mother's love was Jesus, God bless her soul, and  of course her children. I know for a fact the joy she experienced as a result of her devotion. I thank God the same opportunities are available to you. 

Finally, I  hate to say it but life can be hard.




> Got to spread the love before I can green you.

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## Sumbitch

> Some people were worried for you, dontchaknow?...


You're a good man. Cheers.

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## Sumbitch

> I reckon the oatmeal, yoghurt, milk, protein shakes (not too much), fruit and veges and if possible nuts and fish, along with daily exercise will keep you fit and healthy.  Keep well.


Thanks, ENT. Finished another 2 day fast last midnight. Broke the fast then with watermelon, a protein shake and a bowl of All-Bran with fruity yogurt topping. This morning had a bowl of oatmeal and some melon. Non-fat milk on the cereal and in place of water in the oatmeal.

Now to wait for the strength to return in able to get in as much exercise as I can in the next 5 days. (hopefully... :Wink:

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## Sumbitch

> Hope things are good for ya Bill, just wondering about how that first crap turned out though!


Why only the first?  :Smile:

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## Davis Knowlton

[quote=wjblaney;3309294]
So the  philosophical side of me then wants to ask you 'Does it all boil down to the process  of aging?' I mean who wants eternal youth? I certainly don't want my  youth back. But I do admit to the quest for feeling better physically,  spiritually and mentally. At the very least that requires  concentration, determination and devotion. Devotion is also  definable as love. My mother's love was Jesus, God bless her soul, and  of course her children. I know for a fact the joy she experienced as a result of her devotion. I thank God the same opportunities are available to you. 

Finally, I  hate to say it but life can be hard.

/quote]

I'm not much of a philosopher, Bill. I've had a good life, albeit with some bumps along the way. But nothing much I would do differently. Life is a learning process. We all play it incorrectly on occasion, but you drive on and learn from your mistakes. Mine is mostly in the rear view mirror at this point and my focus is much more on my wife and kids than it is on me.

Teach your kids well, love your wife, try to set them up so they can carry on when you're gone. And, while you're at it, enjoy each day.

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## ENT

^^ Because that's usually the most difficult after a fast, and I wondered about how much starch was in your first breakfast, the stuff's guaranteed to swell and block your small intestine around the duodenum, unless of coirse it was taken in exceptionally small doses.

Protein, even a spoonful of milk can have disturbing effects on the gut at that first meal, too.

After that, stuff should be nice and slippery if it's low in carbs and high in fibre, such as papaya, mango or other soft fruit.

Sweet potato's a really good source of soft fibre.

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## Sumbitch

> Welcome back to the Buffalo Board, blaney...  There are rules, you know...Call someone if you're gonna stay out past eleven on a school night, ffs...  Some people were worried for you, dontchaknow?...


That makes me feel sad.  :Sadwavey: 




> Have a look out your window, can you see ENT?


That makes me feel...uh  :Sombrero: 




> Mr Blaney, tell us about your eating since you finished the water diet, and about your bowel movements too.


(see my reply to ENT below)

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## Sumbitch

> I'm not much of a philosopher, Bill. I've had a good life, albeit with some bumps along the way. But nothing much I would do differently. Life is a learning process. We all play it incorrectly on occasion, but you drive on and learn from your mistakes. Mine is mostly in the rear view mirror at this point and my focus is much more on my wife and kids than it is on me.


I've always lived my life as a single man. At the best of times, I'd put my energies into wholesome activities, which is always a learning process, like u say. At the worst of times imagine one of your kids living on his own right now with the resources to continue living whichever way your kid thinks is cool. heh, heh




> Teach your kids well, love your wife, try to set them up so they can carry on when you're gone. And, while you're at it, enjoy each day.


Sounds philosophical to me, Davis.




> Because that's usually the most difficult after a fast, and I wondered about how much starch was in your first breakfast, the stuff's guaranteed to swell and block your small intestine around the duodenum, unless of coirse it was taken in exceptionally small doses.  Protein, even a spoonful of milk can have disturbing effects on the gut at that first meal, too.  After that, stuff should be nice and slippery if it's low in carbs and high in fibre, such as papaya, mango or other soft fruit.  Sweet potato's a really good source of soft fibre.


God, are u really living in Bangladesh? I heard there was some bad shit (pun) going on there right now! Some kind of fucking bombing?

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## ENT

I move around Asia a fair bit, currently in Cambodia.

Yes Bangladesh is a crazy Muslim ridden place, Dhaka's horrible, dirty, smelly and miserable, but I stay away from there and hang out in the hills, much nicer people, Bhuddists, Hindus, Xtians and animists in my neck of the woods.

Meghalaya is only a short flight away, lovely escape, or go by road through Sylhet and Sylchar.

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## Davis Knowlton

I didn't mind my two years in Dhaka - marred only by my first marriage.

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## ENT

I lived a long time 4,000 ft up in the hills of Meghalaya, overlooking Bangladesh (East Pakistan at the time), the whole country spread out before me like a map, the Bay of Bengal a silver slash just below the southern horizon, god, it was a lovely time.

Dhaka was a glistening cluster of factories and smokestacks down river, never dreamed I'd pass through there in years to come.

Did you marry a Sylhetti?

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## Davis Knowlton

> Did you marry a Sylhetti?


Nope. Blond, blue-eye, daughter of an American expat. Face of an angel, body of a goddess, soul of a pit viper.

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## Latindancer

> Protein, even a spoonful of milk can have disturbing effects on the gut at that first meal, too.


You're not wrong there. There have been cases where well-wishing people have encountered starving people after a famine, and given them protein-rich foods.
The starving people died horrible, painful  deaths.

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## Sumbitch

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> 
> 
> Protein, even a spoonful of milk can have disturbing effects on the gut at that first meal, too.
> 
> 
> You're not wrong there. There have been cases where well-wishing people have encountered starving people after a famine, and given them protein-rich foods.
> The starving people died horrible, painful  deaths.


How long are the fasts that you're talking about? Secondly, it's an obvious fact some people are lactose intolerant even if they eat 24/7/365.

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## ENT

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> 
> 
> Did you marry a Sylhetti?
> 
> 
> Nope. Blond, blue-eye, daughter of an American expat. Face of an angel, body of a goddess, soul of a pit viper.


Aaargh! The devil in disguise.
I've fallen for a couple of those too. Not pleasant outcomes in both cases.

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## Sumbitch

> Nope. Blond, blue-eye, daughter of an American expat. Face of an angel, body of a goddess, soul of a pit viper.


God, I know that would be somebody I'd fall for too. Dumb-ass. At least I wouldn't have married her.

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## Sumbitch

> Aaargh! The devil in disguise. I've fallen for a couple of those too. Not pleasant outcomes in both cases.


Read my post above and tell me if Davis thinks I'm calling him a dumb-ass.

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## ENT

> Originally Posted by Latindancer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by ENT
> ...


Even a short fast, one week, or being on a rice diet such as a macrobiotic one as I was can make you intolerant of rich animal based foods, especially processed stuff. I'm not lactose intolerant either.

Within 10 minutes I was as sick as a dog, foul guts, the running trots and farted like an old tractor after tasting a single teaspoonful of the sweetened milk I'd prepared for my young son.

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## ENT

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> Aaargh! The devil in disguise. I've fallen for a couple of those too. Not pleasant outcomes in both cases.
> 
> 
> Read my post above and tell me if Davis thinks I'm calling him a dumb-ass.


I hope not, else he might return the compliment, or if you're within his sight, not being a spiteful guy, he'd give you a withering look you'd not forget, I'd guess.   :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

> Even a short fast, one week, or being on a rice diet such as a macrobiotic one as I was can make you intolerant of rich animal based foods, especially processed stuff. I'm not lactose intolerant either.  Within 10 minutes I was as sick as a dog, foul guts, the running trots and farted like an old tractor after tasting a single teaspoonful of the sweetened milk I'd prepared for my young son.


Oh, God. I just fart regularly, man. Then take a great shit. And you know those hoses they have next to the toilets here? I spray that shit and it turns into mush, i've eaten the perfect amount of fiber. I don't want to talk about otherwise bc I do get off track with sugar based or high carb sweets. That's what's so good about the two days per week fasting diet. I come off of it just loving all the high fiber, low sugar foods, with a smattering of fats and protein. It seems since I only have 5 days left before the next fast, I wouldn't have time to fall off the wagon but it hasn't happened yet.  :Lmao:

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## Sumbitch

> I move around Asia a fair bit, currently in Cambodia.  Yes Bangladesh is a crazy Muslim ridden place, Dhaka's horrible, dirty, smelly and miserable, but I stay away from there and hang out in the hills, much nicer people, Bhuddists, Hindus, Xtians and animists in my neck of the woods.  Meghalaya is only a short flight away, lovely escape, or go by road through Sylhet and Sylchar.





> I didn't mind my two years in Dhaka


What about India? Anything there for me?

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## Davis Knowlton

Lived there for three years - quite enjoyed it. Always something new to see and do.

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## Dillinger

> What about India? Anything there for me?


Botulism. Should knock a few more kilos off

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## ENT

> Lived there for three years - quite enjoyed it. Always something new to see and do.


I'm looking forward to a longish stint in India again, up in the hills.
I'd also very much want to visit Kashmir, Lake Srinagar, if the troubles die down there.

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## Davis Knowlton

I drove from Delhi to Kashmir, then spent a week or so on a houseboat on Dal Lake while exploring the surrounding area. Bought some nice carpets. Good trip.

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## Sumbitch

> Welcome back to the Buffalo Board, blaney...  There are rules, you know...Call someone if you're gonna stay out past eleven on a school night, ffs...  Some people were worried for you, dontchaknow?...


Gotcha.

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## BaitongBoy

^ And a fine evening to ya, blaney, me lad...

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## Sumbitch

> Lived there for three years - quite enjoyed it. Always something new to see and do.





> I drove from Delhi to Kashmir, then spent a week or so on a houseboat on Dal Lake while exploring the surrounding area. Bought some nice carpets. Good trip.


That took 3 years? Sorry, sorry, sorry. *NO JOKE INTENDED*.




> Botulism. Should knock a few more kilos off


Another one of your subtle jokes? This is what the Mayo Clinic says about botulism: 


> All types of botulism can be fatal and are considered medical emergencies.


 And about the type of botulism that worries me (see my reply below to ENT): 


> *Foodborne botulism*. The harmful bacteria thrive and produce the toxin in environments with little oxygen, such as in canned food.





> I'm looking forward to a longish stint in India again, up in the hills.
> I'd also very much want to visit Kashmir, Lake Srinagar, if the troubles die down there.


I'd love to do that. I heard there's been some recent troubles as well, dammit.  But what does longish mean to the wanderer? A place to live for awhile? 

I am in the planning stages of a trip to Ladakh, which is also in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir but prolly much easier/quicker to get to than Srinagar. Leh (altitude 3500 m) would be the starting point. Very direct and cheap flights. Nonstop Bangkok to Delhi and about the same flight duration as Bangkok to Kathmandu (3-4 hours, something like that). One overnight near the Delhi airport and then catch an early flight to Leh (an hour) the next morning.



The goal is a mountain called Stok Kangri (elevation 6,153 m (20,182 feet). The upside is that it's easy (trekkers with no climbing experience attempt it every year) and beautiful. The downside is that the whole environment, from Leh to Stok Kangri and back, is desert. And high altitude desert is the hardest climbing environment I've ever been in. Pequeno Alpamayo in Bolivia rises above the Bolivian Altiplano, which itself is 3,750 meters (12,300 feet). And nothing but blue skies. That means no humidity which in itself is enough to cause a bloody nose from day 1. Not to mention radiation from the sun due to the lack of atmosphere and lack of water in the atmosphere and then there's oxygen deprivation. At the airport where you land to begin the trip the effective oxygen percentage is about 13% whereas at sea level it's about 21%. And that's in the capital city of La Paz. But, oh, what a beautiful mountain.

I like this pic i found online bc: you see the guy in the foreground? He has to climb way down from where he's at before a rock climb just to begin climbing the ridge in the background that's level with his current location. What are the two little dots on the ridge to the top in front of that big rock?



So this is Stok Kangri:



What do you guys think of Indian food?

(Davis says ignore any advice from Dillinger. Is there an ignore button somewhere?  :Slomo: )

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## ENT

Botulism, think botox.

Mad women and fairyboys think its the bees knees, until their faces start to look like photoshopped funnies.

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## ENT

> I drove from Delhi to Kashmir, then spent a week or so on a houseboat on Dal Lake while exploring the surrounding area. Bought some nice carpets. Good trip.


Dal Lake, you're right, I stand corrected.

I often think of being there, it's a defo on my to do list. Another area in Himalaya I love is Sikhim, been there a couple of times and have some Lepcha and Tibetan friends there, near another lake with houseboats, Khecheopalri about a hundred k or so away from Gangtok.

Subsisted on a diet of meat, chupatis and alu dum, momos and soup along with tsampa and buttered salty Tibetan tea and oranges whenever they were around. Attend some of the melas, the girls are really pretty ... :Smile: 

Did you stumble across the reputed tomb of Jesus there?   :ssssh:

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## ENT

> What do you guys think of Indian food?


Love it, I was raised on Indian foods, and I cook a mean Assamese curry.

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## BaitongBoy

Heh...Blaney, I see you've got food on your mind, mate...

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## ENT

I think that's his problem.

I gave up a lot of things in my more recent past, or at least moderated my consumption thereof.

The whole thing with eating, consuming and having to have things is based on hankering, wishful thinking, fantasizing over what you think you want. Desire.

Buddha pointed out that all suffering comes from desire. True.

Cease desire and you're quite literally free.    :Smile:

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## Sumbitch

> Botulism, think botox.  Mad women and fairyboys think its the bees knees, until their faces start to look like photoshopped funnies.


Everybody laugh. Ent is funny. 555




> Heh...Blaney, I see you've got food on your mind, mate...


Of course, good nutrition, but not hunger. I'm also thinking about ENT's rambling on and on about BMs. Especially the first one after a fast. I'm waiting...




> I think that's his problem.


(see above quote to BB 'bout nutrition)




> I gave up a lot of things in my more recent past, or at least moderated my consumption thereof.


That's exactly what fasting is about. Giving up food.




> The whole thing with eating, consuming and having to have things is based on hankering, wishful thinking, fantasizing over what you think you want. Desire.


That's definitely not my motivation. I believe fasting is a healthful activity and will lead to many health related benefits. Starting with _less_ desire for food following the fast.




> Buddha pointed out that all suffering comes from desire. True.


Buddhism simplifies everything too much.  


> Vedanta attributes five causes of suffering,       and these are: (1) loss of contact with the real that is the center of our       being, the Atman; (2) ego; (3) attachment; (4) aversion; and (5) clinging.

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## Latindancer

> Once I


Crikey ! ENT has died.....carked it, mid-story ! Right here on TD.

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## Sumbitch

> Crikey ! ENT has died.....carked it, mid-story ! Right here on TD.


 ::doglol::

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## ENT

> Originally Posted by ENT
> 
> Botulism, think botox.  Mad women and fairyboys think its the bees knees, until their faces start to look like photoshopped funnies.
> 
> 
> Everybody laugh. Ent is funny. 555
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bill, you're so full of yer own shit you can't see that your problem is your uncontrollable desire to eat crap food, (hand to mouth infantile oral gratification)_ masochistically_ push yourself to physically painful extremes (adrenalin junky), prescription drugs (hard drug addiction) and pure narcissism, you're an attention whore.

Mumbojumbo religious mutterings, Vedanta, following gurus and pretending to understand atman, ego, nirvana or any of that through ritual prescriptions or meditations will get you nowhere, millions have tried it before you, millions will try it yet, all are doomed to utter disappointment.

As one Zen Buddhist abbot once said, "Trying to reach enlightenment by meditating is like trying to make a mirror by polishing a brick."

Buddhism is simple. Why should a profound understanding be anything other?
Your much vaunted Vedanta philosophy is derived from Buddhism, but it's a bit like going the long way round to reach a goal while simply being yourself and fulfilling your dharma (your duty) is all you need to do. Karma will look after itself.

You'd be better off meditating on being aware of every morsel of food you put in your mouth, chew it slowly, think about where it came from and what it will do for you, sip every drop of fluid with mindfulness, and understand why you drink it and be deliberately mindful and aware of every step you take instead of hammering your body around, as that excess will kill you, and drive you to further excesses before you die.

Re your bowel movements, most of what you eat comes out your arse,and if you take no notice of the state of the crap you drop, you're just plain stupid.

Your cyclic fasting and binge eating is more akin to _bulimia nervosa_ or _anorexia nervosa_, defined as;

_Bulimia_
An insatiable overeating as a medical condition, in particular.
an emotional disorder involving distortion of body image and an obsessive desire to lose weight, in which bouts of extreme overeating are followed by depression and self-induced vomiting, purging, or fasting.

*Anorexia*
A lack or loss of appetite for food (as a medical condition).
an emotional disorder characterized by an obsessive desire to lose weight by refusing to eat.

Try reading this;
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders....orexia-nervosa


Got it in one?


Cheers.

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## billy the kid

> "Trying to reach enlightenment by meditating is like trying to make a mirror by polishing a brick."


A good post ENT.

Body can be forgiving but extreme nature of blaney's effort at controlling is rather dangerous.
Still, wish him good health

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## Latindancer

ENT-man speak truth.

Buddha rejected extremism after having tried it, and advocated the middle path.

WJB, your fast was very prolongued, and if you want to continue down the same path, you would be better off doing short fasts.

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## billy the kid

> you would be better off doing short fasts.


These are all a bit lazy. Eat and put some hard work/exercise into it.
4 or 5 hrs at least every day until weight is down.
Only eat what you need.
Keep body strong.

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