#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Motoring in Thailand and Asia >  >  Petrol in Thailand; which one?

## Bettyboo

So, we've done the LPG or Petrol thread (or CNG as it turned out). It was very informative, so thanks to everyone that added their comments on that thread.

In the UK, I remember petrol being petrol, you filled up and away you went - sorted, but it all seems so much trickier here...

I've used PTT Gasohol91 (30.4baht/l) which seemed to average around 11km/l in Bkk traffic.
I've used PTT Gasohol95 (31.9baht/l) which seems to average around 11.7km/l in Bkk traffic.
I haven't done the maths yet, but there doesn't seem to be much, if anything, in it (I 'feel' I'm doing very slightly better on the Gasohol91).

After advice from the board my next few tanks will be:

PTT E20
PTT benzine. It seems that PTT is NOT the way to go, but I wanna keep my test consistent.
Shell benzine.
Bangchak Gasohol91.

This should let me know how the car's doing in city driving conditions - the early betting says that the Shell benzine might do the best overall, I'm interested in cost per litre, in Bkk driving conditions, while the Bangchak Gasohol91 might do best on longer runs.

Any thoughts? Please share your experiences and advice. Frankly, I expected a bit better from the new Honda City, but maybe I'm just out of the loop - haven't driven for years; didn't want a car either, but the missus did, so here we are...

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## Bettyboo

^ Positive comments were made about the Caltex benzine/gasohol too, so that will join the list.  :Smile:

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## Mr Earl

My motorcycle is rather sensitive to fuel quality, so I know a wee bit.

Right now the best available fuel is the Shell 95 gasohol V-Power(red pump today 35.43 baht/L). Not to be mistaken with the cheaper 95 gasohol 95 in the yellow pump.

After that the PTT 95 seems fine though noticeably a lesser fuel that the Shell.

The best used to be the Caltex 95 pure benzine, which had a disappearance long ago. Shell had a very brief renewal of a 95 V-Power pure benzine which lasted barely a year.
Now 95 pure benzine is all gone.
For a late model Honda city it probably doesn't mater which fuel you use as the modern sensors in that engine will compensate for lower quality fuel.
But if you want the best power from that engine the Shell 95 V-Power is the ticket.
If you go out and do a high speed highway run that would be the best choice.
Around town it probably doesn't matter much.

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## jandajoy

Diesel... thread closed..... :Smile:

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## aging one

Damn thats too much math for me. At the military pump on the way to work. Its 1.20 cheaper than on the street.  PTT.  95 gasahol never had a problem after having to switch from normal 95.  Older car with 265,00 on the clock. Still running well with regular maintenance.

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## BobR

That surprises me, you should find a difference between the green 91 gasohol and the red 91 gasoline, but not between the 2 grades of gasohol.

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## Bettyboo

^ whose that aimed to, Bob?

Thanks Mr Earl Shell 95 gasohol V-Power is on my list; I'm hoping I'll find something to help around town. Maybe Shell benzine 91, is that still getable?




> Diesel... thread closed.....


Killjoy, I don't drive tractors!  :Smile: 




> PTT. 95 gasahol


So, far, it has been the best, but I'm hoping to find better; especially around town.

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## artist

Gasahol 95 gives my car a 25% drop in mileage which is probably due to requiring a lot more power to accellerate. Nissan says use the best octane for the best performance.

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## Bettyboo

& it's not 25% cheaper. I've heard this from a few people who say that the good benzines are the best options around the city - my next tank will be benzine - probably the PTT one, so that I can compare with the other PTT fuels I've tried.

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## sabaii sabaii

Can't beat diesel motors nowadays

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## Bettyboo

^ maybe, but that won't be helping me any time soon... Actually, I was just thinking this morning how nice a Focus 2litre TD would be.

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## spliff

I use Shell V-power diesel.

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## Bettyboo

I'm a bit unhappy with my figures today, as opposed to my figure which makes me (and the missus) unhappy everyday.  :Smile: 

I did the maths, helped by the NZ AA website cause I'm a bit slow, and my tank of PTT gasohol91 managed just under 10km/l around Bkk. The 11.1 km/l I mentioned before was the computers figure and must have averaged out with the half tank of PTT gasohol95 I put in on the first day (the maths comes together more or less because the metre was reading between 11.7 and 12 for the gasohol95).

That gives me a cost per kilometre of just over 3 baht.  :Sad:  I was expecting closer to 2 baht/km.

So, tomorrow I'll fill up. I think I'll try the Shell95 V-power from the red pump, and see what she does for me. Sooner or later I'll have to try her on the E20 too, if that gives similar mileage to the gasohol91 then the cost per kilometre will be okayish, well better anyway. Also, I'll try other brands - it's gonna be expensive finding the right fuel...




> I've used PTT Gasohol91 (30.4baht/l) which seemed to average around 11km/l in Bkk traffic. I've used PTT Gasohol95 (31.9baht/l) which seems to average around 11.7km/l in Bkk traffic.

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## johpam

I don`t see how you are going to measure your fuel consumption with only 1 tank of what ever fuel you put in. I am just about sure you are not driving in the same conditions ( temperture,moisture,load ect ) every tank. I think you need a minimum of 3/4 tanks or maybe even more to workout your average use.
cheers 
johpam

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## Bettyboo

^ probably right, early doors...

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## Mr Earl

> Maybe Shell benzine 91, is that still getable?


I think so, but it's slated to go away. I prefer that stuff in my 30 year old 100cc Honda. I doubt you'll notice any power increase in a modern fuel injected engine.(more likely a decrease imo)
My big motorcycle really protested(knocking) whenever I've used 91 benzine.
All the modern car engines built in the last 20 years will happily run on 95 gasohol.
In my 2000 Toyota Corolla I noticed very little difference between 95 gasohol and 95 benzine. Fuel economy when from 17 km/l to 15 km/l.
I have a 1990 Toyota Corolla also and the fuel economy suffered a little bit more, from 15 km/l to 12 km/l.
As far as power in these little bitty econobox engines I really couldn't tell that big of a difference, Though I tended to think they ran better on 95 benzine. Sadly just isn't available anymore and at 45-47 baht a liter it didn't make economic sense to run in the cars, when it was available is just used it in the big bike.
The PTT 95 gasohol for 30 baht a liter the best economy.

Do the new Honda City's still come with 2 engine options? Which do you have? One of them is supposed to be quite zippy.

The zippiest available little car out now is the Toyota Yaris.

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## Bettyboo

^ Mr Earl.

Only one engine for the city 1.5 120ps (or bhp...), it's not slow, but I rarely push it over 3000 rpm... sometimes to block off a new pickup or big car that's trying to cut me up - nearly had a few fights, I should probably relax, but some of them are selfish fukers; I don't really enjoy letting them take take take...

I did the final calculation on the PTTgasohol91 which worked out at 9.5km/l around Bkk - poor, I won't be using that stuff again; I've heard similar figures from other Bkk Honda City drivers too.

Just put in Bangchak red pump benzine91 cause I'm surrounded by loads of PTT and my options are limited (they must be raking it in!). I happened to hit the orange light around home rather than the Shell garage on the way to work. The computer after 10km or so is already showing a better km/l and a much higher tank range, so I'm optimistic that this'll be the stuff for around town. If I can go 15 km/l on this stuff around town then that'll reduce my fuel costs by 15-20% which'd put me just where I wanna be...

Another ignorant question: what's the difference between benzine 91 and benzine 95? Is 95 more expensive, but better on the miles? Anywhere sell the stuff?

Thanks, BB

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## Bettyboo

Have a look at this link:

EPPO : Retail Oil Prices in Bangkok TODAY

Updated petrol prices, available fuels, links to Thai websites, etc. 

There's a Susco by me, so I can try out their benzine95 next time I fill up, currently at 42.04 a litre.

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## Mr Earl

> ^
> Another ignorant question: what's the difference between benzine 91 and benzine 95? Is 95 more expensive, but better on the miles? Anywhere sell the stuff?
> 
> Thanks, BB


95/91 is the octane rating. Actually 95 RON(research octane number) which is the European scale.
Anyway the higher number the fuel burns a little hotter and slower.

Sadly pure 95 benzine is no longer available. I suppose they didn't sell enough of it. At 45 baht a liter it was expensive. But you really need a high performance engine to make the most of it. It would be a waste running it in you average econobox.




> Many high-performance engines are designed to operate with a high  maximum compression, and thus demand high-octane premium gasoline. A  common misconception is that power output or fuel mileage can be  improved by burning higher octane fuel than a particular engine was  designed for. The power output of an engine depends in part on the  energy density of its fuel, but similar fuels with different octane  ratings have similar density. Since switching to a higher octane fuel  does not add any more hydrocarbon content or oxygen, the engine cannot  produce more power.

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## Mr Earl

> Have a look at this link:
> 
> EPPO : Retail Oil Prices in Bangkok TODAY
> 
> Updated petrol prices, available fuels, links to Thai websites, etc. 
> 
> There's a Susco by me, so I can try out their benzine95 next time I fill up, currently at 42.04 a litre.


That's good to know you can still get 95 benzine Shell and Caltex have quit carrying it.

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## Bettyboo

Right, update time.

Not very bloody happy at all. That Bangjak 91 benzine was 36.24 baht per litre and managed a rather crap 9.2 km/l which meant a cost per km of 4 baht... Same price as a taxi.  :Sad:  To be fair to the fuel, I've been out with the missus everyday (her driving, me screaming...) so it's the worst possible conditions: learner driver and Bkk traffic.

Today was a big day: Shell V-POWER 95 (supposed to be RON97, or so I read somewhere in one of my sadder moments...). I'd taken the tank right down to about 9km left, so under a litre of that bloody 91 benzine stuff, and filled her up with the 34.83 baht per litre Ferrari inspired racing fuel for streetcars..? Reset the computer. Straight out of the station and onto a clear 'racing road', upto 100kph and the baby was at 15km/l and feeling smoother and quicker than she has ever felt before. I was loving it, turned a corner and then took the next 90 minutes to travel between ThaPra and Bangmod (fuking stupid roadworks blocking many lanes with every driver weaving between every lane and back again...) aaaaaahhhhhhhhhh. The computer made it down to 6km/l, the worst I've ever seen.

So, basically, it's the fuking Bkk traffic that fuks the little motor over. Not much the Honda engineers/designers can do about rotit mak mak, (rotit mai yut?). Nonetheless, I'm feeling good about this fuel. Already got the average back up to 10km/l & I reckon we're gonna get the best mileage on this fuel and the best engine performance too.

As, Mr Earl says, the higher RON burning hotter and slower should be good for the car and mileage, plus it's cheaper than the 91 benzine. 

A note to meself: this garage is the same one that I put 500 baht's worth of 95gasohol in on the day I got the car; it's a shell garage; & the gasohol95 worked out giving better mileage and better economy than either the 91gaSOHOL OR 91Bbenzine, so I'm starting to think that 95 is the way to go...

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## The Fresh Prince

Managed to find a place with E20 2 days ago and my tank was down to about 30k's so almost empty. I think it was 28 or 29bt per liter. Pretty much filled the tank with 1000bt, (it was one of those crappy self service, pay before you get the goods garages) and reset the clock.

I can definitely feel a difference in performance. I'm not sure if its quieter or smoother, can't quiet put my finger on it. Anyway I'll be back with the millage results later but I've got a good feeling about it.

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## Bettyboo

^ It'd be interesting to see how your little beauty is doing around Bkk FP.

Also, very interesting to see if the E20 is okay enginewise (power) and gives you okayish mileage.

With the V-POWER it added power straight away (where as the 91benzine seemed no more powerful than the gasohol), so if the mileage is on a par with the others, I'll stick with it.

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## Bettyboo

> That surprises me, you should find a difference between the green 91 gasohol and the red 91 gasoline, but not between the 2 grades of gasohol.


I thought the same BobR, but it seems to be the other way - the two 95's I've used are the best two fuels. The two 91's seemed the same, and lesser... Don't know why, but Mr Earls explanation is one I'll happily accept cause it seems to follow through in my experience thusfar.

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## The Fresh Prince

> Managed to find a place with E20


Here's a half tank update on the E20. 

I haven't really had much of a chance to boot it over the last couple of days with the weather being bad but economy wise, things seem to be going very well. According to my computer (which I always suspect of trying to give me good news to make me feel good) at the half tank mark I still have 297km remaining. 

Normally at the half tank mark with 91 or 95, I will have somewhere between 250-260km remaining.

As I said I've had little chance to boot it except for last night on the way home when I got a small chance and it seemed to pull away and cruise at speed the same as it does normally.

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## Bettyboo

^ God, you've depressed me FP...




> at the half tank mark I still have 297km remaining.


My total tank on 91 benzine did 285kms; he put in 31 litres. My tank seems to take 35 litres in total (not sure what Honda say, but that's been the reality).

The computers lie... I've been doing between 1km/l and 2km/l worse than the computer says. Also, when my tank's full, it always starts with a crazy figure like 550 km range, dropping to 320km range by half tank - that bit of sowtware is seriously flawed; they're giving ideal figures rather than actualys IMHO. Thus, from the Honda experience, if the computer told me I had 297km range, I'd expect to do another 150kms in the city...

If your computer is nearly accurate, then:
1) your tank is almost certainly a fair few litres bigger than mine.
2) sounds like your car is noticeably better on fuel around the city.
3) maybe your doing less traffic jams than me?

Right, off to the mazda site to compare...  :Smile: 
(wanna swap cars?)

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## The Fresh Prince

Arrh, I'd forgotten to check how far I'd actually gone on half a tank. Had to run out and check.

it's only 194km  :Sad:  So the computer is way off.

But I still think that's better than normal. Normally out of a full tank I can get 6 round trips to work plus the odd nip down to the shops and stuff. So far I've already done 4 and a half round trips plus a lot of extra's like picking up mates yesterday and going to central rama 2 today.




> (wanna swap cars?)


Have you seen how many pairs of shoes my wife keeps in my car? I'ts like an effing shoe shop. :Smile:

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## Bettyboo

I've found other owners on other sites that have problems with the 'new' City computer and tank filing only to 35 litres (when it's a 42 litre tank). Some say that when the light comes on you have 7.9 lites left, but the computer does not acknowledge/see the reserve 7 litres... I don't know, but according to my experience the tank fills only to 35 litres. When the light comes on around 50kms are shown as being left; I last filled up when my light had been on for ages and the computer was down to 10km, so why would a further 7 litres be hidden? When I got the car, the light was on and Honda said there was about 10 km of fuel so best go to a station... This does not fit with the explanation of 7 litres of available fuel once the computer shows none... especially as the low fuel light would have already been on for 50 kms; that'd be a reserve fuel range of 50kms plus 7 more litres - that's a quarter of a tank... My feeling is that the tank is smaller than Honda says, perhaps a 35 litre tank; why would this be so? Sounds ridiculous...

The Mazda shows a 43 litre tank. My biggest fill, when the computer was saying 25km (and the light had been on for 30km already) was 32.24 litres, and I watched the guy drip drip drip every drop into the tank, there was no more space in the tank that's a certainty. The fact that FP is getting so many more miles when we're probably doing similarish driving could be associated with tank size, IMO.
The mazda 2 also seems to have similar fuel figures on the reveiws I've read; around 14km/l combined, maybe 12km/l to 16km/l in actuality. I don't know if you are getting that FP, I haven't even managed a tank on 10km/l yet...  :Sad:

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## The Fresh Prince

Me and a mate tried to work it out a few weeks back. If I remember we figured 11km/l. My computer says my average is 8km/l. But that screen just depresses me so I try not to look at it and just leave it on remaining miles.

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## Bettyboo

^  :Smile: 

The figures for Bkk driving are much lower than the manufacturer "combined" figure. I should imagine on a run to Hua Hin we'd both get between 15km/l and 17km/l, maybe then the tank range of 550 kms or so could be realized...

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## Bettyboo

> it's only 194km


But, that's not bad atall. If you're getting nigh on 400kms per tank, that's 100kms more than me.




> Have you seen how many pairs of shoes my wife keeps in my car? I'ts like an effing shoe shop.


You and me both. Well, I've had a couple of fights over this; I say no shoes in the car, she ignores me, then I throw them out the car, she goes ballistic and puts them back in the car... Only one pair in the car at any time, but I'm trying to get them out of the car too. I've added a plastic bag and put them in the holder under the rear seat, so I think I'm winning on points.  :Smile:

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## The Fresh Prince

> You and me both. Well, I've had a couple of fights over this; I say no shoes in the car, she ignores me, then I throw them out the car, she goes ballistic and puts them back in the car... Only one pair in the car at any time, but I'm trying to get them out of the car too. I've added a plastic bag and put them in the holder under the rear seat, so I think I'm winning on points.


It makes me laugh when I take the car to be cleaned and when I come to collect they've arranged all the shoes neatly in the boot like I'm going to a car boot sale or something. :Smile:

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## Thetyim

^
Do they clean the shoes as well ?

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## The Fresh Prince

They should certainly think about it. It's seems like its a trend among thai girls and they could charge extra  :Smile:

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## madjbs

Just find a way to turn that computer thing off, then you won't need to worry about which fuel  :Smile:

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## dirtydog

95 in everything, 91 is for poor people isn't it  :Smile:

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## Bettyboo

> Just find a way to turn that computer thing off, then you won't need to worry about which fuel


Not a bad suggestion.




> 95 in everything, 91 is for poor people isn't it


I'm starting to think this way... 95 is good. It's more expensive, so it's better, and the fact that I can afford it and not worry about the economics is better still...
(why the thread then?)
(Is talking to yourself wrong?)
(I don't see why, carry on)
(thanks, I think I will...)

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## Thetyim

I get better fuel consumption with BangChak Gasohol 91 than PTT Gasohol 95

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## Bettyboo

^ Yeah, it's funny that. But, as you said, you found it strange initially, though it has been supported by others. It's certainly not clearcut. Different cars, different engines, different driving styles and routes all have an impact.

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## The Fresh Prince

Yeah!! Just had a nice drive home from work, dry roads and I was the only car on them so I got a chance to give it some stick. :Smile: 

I cruised most of the way at 140kmph and got the chance to boot it on the straight up to 190kmph and it felt like it had a bit more. I had to slow down for a bridge. I'd lent it to a mate the other day and he said that he got 185-187kmph out of it so I carried on as long as I could unlit it hit the magic 190 mark as I wanted to beat him. :Smile:  A taxi tried to race me for a few mins when we were passing under Wongwhien Yai station but he soon gave up when we got to Kalaprapruk Rd.

The thing was that I had the computer was set to show me km/l and it was giving me a nice 17.5km/l at 140kmph (steady and not flickering between numbers) then when I got up to 180 it was giving me 23km/l, also steady. This was at around 4800rpm (possibly more :Smile: ) so either the computer is totally screwed or the car only likes it when you boot the shit out of it. After that I thought it was best to keep my eyes on the road.

Anyway, as far as the E20 test goes I think its been a success on millage and performance so I'm gonna give it a few more tanks before I try the red pump Shell 95.

I'll give a full millage of the tank when I get it in a couple of days. Sorry I didn't look at how may liters were put into the tank at the start. I'll do that next time.

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## Bettyboo

You're driving too fast! Keep safe...

So, your Mazda has a bigger tank, is more fuel effiecient and faster than mine.  :Sad:  I seem to remember that a steady 56mph was supposed to be a good speed; what's that 80-85kph? I also noticed on me computer than when I was going around 120-130kph down Rama 2 early in the morning that the computer liked it, but that wasn't high rpm. I would've thought that over 4000rpm would eat into the fuel, but maybe I'm living in an alternative place and time?

Seeing those numbers (17.5 and 23) must've been good. That trip to Hua Hin should come soon (maybe I'll drive to Cha-am for lunch to test out the fuel efficiency).  :Smile: 

Good to hear about the E20, that's what I'm going for next, then I think I would've tried the lot.

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## aging one

> then when I got up to 180 it was giving me 23km/l, also steady. This was at around 4800rpm (possibly more) so either the computer is totally screwed or the car only likes it when you boot the shit out of it. After that I thought it was best to keep my eyes on the road.


something is broken on your trip computer. Sadly 23kpl at 180kph and 4800 rpms is just not possible.

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## crippen

Maybe said 2.3 kpl??? :Smile:

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## madjbs

I only get about 7.5 kpl maximum in my old BMW 318i  :Sad:

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## Bettyboo

^ I'm starting to feel better about the City; is that on a run? or city traffic?

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## madjbs

Mixed, city traffic I might get only 7km/l and on a motorway run at 120kph I might get 8km/l. I normally drive at 150-160kph on long runs though which brings the consumption right back to 7km/l. 

I don't really pay much attention though, just drive how I like and fill up when empty.

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## The Fresh Prince

> something is broken on your trip computer. Sadly 23kpl at 180kph and 4800 rpms is just not possible.


Thats one of the reasons I'm saying that I don't trust the computer :Smile:

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## aging one

I noted that as well FP, funny it could be off so much.  My 14 year old Corona gets 10.5 around town. But up to 16 on the highway. I normally have kids in the car, and the car is old so I drive right around 100 or so.  Was shocked when I calculated how good it was.

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## The Fresh Prince

My trip computer has still been reading 20+ all morning/afternoon. I think its best just to turn it to temperature or millage and ignore it.

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## aging one

If you get 800 kilometers or more on this tank of petrol you have a winner car. If not you have a busted trip computer.

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## Bettyboo

^ If FP gets 450km from a tank I'd be jealous. I can only dream of breaking the 400km barrier, though in theory 500km+ should be possible out of town.




> I don't really pay much attention though, just drive how I like and fill up when empty.


 :Smile:  That could be the way forward, but I've turned into me dad (or grandpa) and want to find the verrrrrry best fuel for the new motor.

\/ Big tanks are great.

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## aging one

I have a 50 liter tank. Get just over 500 around town only.  For as old as my car is its unbelievable. I want a new car.  "The thrill is gone away".  :Smile:

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## Mr Earl

> I cruised most of the way at 140kmph and got the chance to boot it on the straight up to 190kmph and it felt like it had a bit more. I had to slow down for a bridge. I'd lent it to a mate the other day and he said that he got 185-187kmph out of it so I carried on as long as I could unlit it hit the magic 190 mark as I wanted to beat him.


Keep in mind the speed rating of the tire(175 / 65 R15 84S) on that car is "S" only 180 kph for a sustained lengh of time.

I'd seriously consider upgrading to the 185 / 55 R16 83H which is the sport rated tire for that car. The "H" gives it a 210 kph rating.

A tire coming apart at 190 kph would be pretty ugly.

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## Bettyboo

After being encouraged by FP's madness, speedwise, I took the little City out for a long drive today. The Shell V-power95 is cheaper than 91 benzine, offeres better mileage (for the city) and offers noticeably more power. I'm gonna check the other 95 fuels; E10 and E20, but I'm pretty happy with this Shell fuel.

But, the best fuel for the car/fuel/route seems to be far from one driver fits all.

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## The Fresh Prince

> After being encouraged by FP's madness, speedwise,


You're the one who asked for performance results :Smile: 




> I'd seriously consider upgrading to the 185 / 55 R16 83H which is the sport rated tire for that car. The "H" gives it a 210 kph rating.


I've got Dunlop SP Sport 2050, 195/45R 16 80W so I'm good up to 270km/h. Not that the car could do that :Smile:  

But you're right, I've had faster cars in the uk and a tire blow out at speed, so it was one of the first things I checked when I looked at the car. Anybody who didn't know about tire ratings before now should check their car tires now, It's very important.




> ^ If FP gets 450km from a tank I'd be jealous. I can only dream of breaking the 400km barrier, though in theory 500km+ should be possible out of town.


450km's isn't going to happen but I should get 400km. I'm at 343km right now and I'm reading 86km left so I reckon probably around 410km it likely.

Had a nice cruise with the wife today up to Impact Arena at a steady 120kmp/h nearly all the way there and back and was getting a steady 14kmpl from the computer. Even though I said I was going to stop looking at it :Smile:

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## The Fresh Prince

Here's a good site with the tire ratings on. Take a look and then check you're tires :Smile: 

Learn about Tire Speed Ratings

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## Bettyboo

I know nothing about tyres, so this is getting informative.  :Smile: 

The Honda website says me car has: 175/65 R15. The car has (I think, it's dark) Bridgestone ER370 84T Turanza which according to FP's link (thanks  :Smile: ) is good for 190kph. That's fine for me cause I'm a cruise at 120kph man, or maybe 140kph when I'm in a hurry.

How long will tyres last do you reckon? 40,000 to 50,000 kms? That's 2 to 3 years driving. Is that right?




> I've got Dunlop SP Sport 2050, 195/45R 16 80W so I'm good up to 270km/h.


Sounds good. Did they come as standard or did you pay extra? How much for a decent tyre?

Checking a UK website: Dunlop SP Sport 2030 Tyres - Cheap Dunlop SP Sport 2030 Tyres Online | Blackcircles.com both our tyres look to be around 100 quid, but yours get much better reviews... Maybe Bridgestone have some partnership going on with Honda; makes sense that the tyre manufacturers should be begging the car companies (with big incentives) to choose theirs... So in Thailand, can you get 5 decent replacement tyres for 20k?

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## The Fresh Prince

> Sounds good. Did they come as standard or did you pay extra? How much for a decent tyre?


They came on the car. I've got no idea how much a new set is in baht, but 20k seems a bit pricey.

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## Bettyboo

^ That's very good. Yours is a really good package, you chose well.

The Honda doesn't feel that well planted to me. When I go over the flyover at DaoKanong to get onto Rama2 the car feels a bit like a boat. When the tyres are dead, I'll almost certainly change brands.

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## The Fresh Prince

I just used up my first tank of E20. Final km's was 409km and there was still 9km left on the computer but that's about what I had when I put my 1000bt in last time.

This time 1000bt got me 35.5L and it was the same garage.

So that works out to an average of 11.5 km/l or 27mpg in English.

I couldn't fill the car up because it was one of those crappy pay before you fill up, self service places. The one with the faded green leaf inside the square logo. Whats the name of that one? And as I was starting to run on fumes I didn't want to drive around trying to find E20 somewhere else. Does anyone know which other gas stations have E20?

Anyway, I'm going to check the spec's but if I do have a 43L tank then I could possibly get 494.5kms possibly 500kms from a full tank, at 2.5bt per km.

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## The Fresh Prince

Ok, just checked the specs and that's interesting. 

It say that the Mazda 2 Maxx Sport has an (approx) 11.3 gallon / 42.7 liter tank and that the average (approx) mpg is 27mpg for city driving and 33mpg for Highway driving. So its done exactly what it said on the tin! :Smile: 

The wheels they gave me are bigger than the ones on the spec sheet, so I'm not sure if that affects mpg in a good way/ bad way or even at all.



edit: Ha Ha, it also says on the spec sheets that my colour choice is called "Crystal White Pearl" I would call it more of a "Dirty Brown Shit" :Smile:

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## Thetyim

I think BangChak and PTT are the only one's selling E20

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## The Fresh Prince

> The one with the faded green leaf inside the square logo. Whats the name of that one?


Which one of those 2 is this one?

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## matsalleh

> Which one of those 2 is this one?



IMO: Bangchak

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## The Fresh Prince

> IMO: Bangchak


Yep your right, on my credit card receipt it says "Bangchak Thanaphop Petrolium" :Smile:

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## Bettyboo

> It say that the Mazda 2 Maxx Sport has an (approx) 11.3 gallon / 42.7 liter tank and that the average (approx) mpg is 27mpg for city driving and 33mpg for Highway driving. So its done exactly what it said on the tin! The wheels they gave me are bigger than the ones on the spec sheet, so I'm not sure if that affects mpg in a good way/ bad way or even at all.


Yeah, that's good going.

The wheels shouldn't help (should hinder) your MPG, but...

The Mazda is doing well. The Honda doesn't meet up to the specs; doesn't get close to its combined figures or seem to have a tank anywhere near the 43 litres that the specs say - when I've been down to a few kms left and only got 32 litres when the tank has been filled to the top - don't know how you can get more than 35 litres into the Honda...

Having said that. The Shell V-power is the best fuel so far. The half tank is averaging over 11kms/l, but that cost is still 20%+ higher than you're getting.

Depending on available stations when I run low I'll fill up with either E20 or 95V-power. I'm going to Nakhorn Nowhere on Sunday, so I should get some out of town figures; I expect the car to jump up to 16kms/l, as she seems to be sooo much better when you're on a run.

Of course, it might just be that the engine is starting to be 'run-in'; we're at the 1000kms mark, or so; it'd make sense...

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## Mr Earl

Today I found a Caltex on Sukumvit with 95 benzine. Right away I can tell the R1100GS is much happier. At 40 baht a liter it's a bit expensive, but I figure 1000 baht will last 4 weeks of daily commuting and my baby's happy!

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## Bettyboo

^ Yep. The good 95 stuff, does have the edge. I'm goin out of town tomorrow, so I'll check for a Caltex garage on the way; see how it works on the open road.  :Smile:

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## Mr Earl

> ^ Yep. The good 95 stuff, does have the edge. I'm goin out of town tomorrow, so I'll check for a Caltex garage on the way; see how it works on the open road.


Not all Caltex stations have it. In fact very few do. I've been looking for several months. Outside of Bangkok Caltex quit carrying it over a year ago.

I figure this one on Sukumvit has it for the numerous fancy high performance cars around here. It's not unusual to see a Ferrari or Porsche in that neighborhood.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> ^ Yep. The good 95 stuff, does have the edge. I'm goin out of town tomorrow, so I'll check for a Caltex garage on the way; see how it works on the open road. 
> 
> 
> Not all Caltex stations have it. In fact very few do. I've been looking for several months. Outside of Bangkok Caltex quit carrying it over a year ago.
> 
> I figure this one on Sukumvit has it for the numerous fancy high performance cars around here. It's not unusual to see a Ferrari or Porsche in that neighborhood.


I also avoid Shell up here in Udon, as it doesn't have Benzine. I always try to use Red 91 in my bike.

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## The Fresh Prince

As a comparison, what kind of kmpl to you diesel drivers get?

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## Bettyboo

Had a lovely long run today, and saw the other side of her.  :Smile:  I filled up with Shell 95V-Power as we set off and reset the trip metre. Straight thru central Bkk (only got lost a couple of times), under the expressway, past the old airport then right at Rangsit, up to Nakon Nayok. Picked up some relatives, including the missus' dad who's monking it for a while, then visited the 80+ grandmare. had a little ceremony then back to the temple to drop of the Dad before visiting a waterfall and some marhets in Khao Yai. - A 380km roundtrip.

The computer read 17.2km/l when I arrived home. Seeming as we had lots of traffic on the NN to Rangsit road, then I decided to go thru Bkk (Victory Monument - oh yes, I'm that stupid) on the way back, so I could get a feel for the lay of the land (never driven over that side of Bkk beofre today), with loads of traffic too... I was very pleased with the average. We started at 6:25 (the missus held us back...) and got to NN really smoothly considering it was pissing it down the whole time. The computer was reading 18.3 for that leg of the journey.

The car feels really good on this fuel; picks up well, feels nippy and powerful enough. I was mostly between 80-110kph, depending on the conditions; 100kph, at about 2500rpm seemed to be the best place for fuel economy.

All in all, got about double the fuel efficiency that I get in BKK on a day to day basis. My costs dropped from nearly 4 baht per km to a tad over 2 baht per km.

The tank has done: 285kms (benzine91), 305kms (PTT gasohol91) and around 170kms on a half tank of Shell gaohol95; all Bkk commutes. I did 380kms today, and still have just over a quarter of a tank left... Bloody expensive these traffic jams!

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## klongmaster

> As a comparison, what kind of kmpl to you diesel drivers get?


11.6km/l in my Isuzu MU7....

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## madjbs

280km today and I actually ran out of fuel about 3km before the petrol station. With my 55L tank that works out at 5 km/l. Very poor  :Sad:

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## Bettyboo

^ That's really awful!

Did you have a petrol can in your boot to see you alright?

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## madjbs

No but I had one of those free bottles of water they give you, which I emptied and preceded to walk to the nearest PTT. Luckily a friendly chap on a motorcycle stopped and went to buy me some fuel and then gave me a lift back to the car.

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## Bettyboo

I still have some questions/doubts on tank size and computer accuracy.

Tank - I have, I think, a good idea of the fuel that goes in: I fill up when the trip metre reads 10km range, and I can just squeeze in 33 litres (33.01) today after the guy fiddled with the nozzel to get a bit more in. This has been consistent.

Honda say it has a 42 litre tank. ??? The yellow warning light comes on at around 60km range, so I un with the fuel low warning light for 50kms before I fill up! So, there would need to be yet another 9 litres in a reserve tank somewhere. How the fuk does that work then? I should get an English manual soon, so I'll have a good look through.

Computer accuracy - My compuer read 15.7 km/l as an average for the tank. I reset it when I filled up; put 32 litres in that time (let's be kind and say the pump was wrong and gave me 1 litre extra which I know is not true, but it's the maximum possible in my tank) and ran 436.3 kms. That's 13.5 km/l; around 12% out. On other tanks I've worked out the mileage at 12-15% different from the computer. 

Upshot. On this tank, which was 75% used for distance touring, I still only got an average of 13.5km/l which is far less than Honda advertise, bastardoses. The tank's too small (or hidden) and the fuel consumption is too high. Having read through some Honda forums, it seems that many folk are saying the same - next time I'll consider a Toyota more closely...

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## INTJ

Madbjs

I saw your ad in the classifieds for your BMW and noticed it has LPG fitted.

Why are you using petrol instead of gas, especially with such poor economy ?

Cheers

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## madjbs

More power with the petrol  :Smile:  I rarely use LPG.

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## INTJ

Seems strange, but each to his own  :Smile:

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## Bettyboo

^ Madnessjbs is clearly unique...  :Smile: 

Driving an old beemer in Thailand, isn't everyone's 'sensible' option, he clearly likes to do his own thing (and why not...), so having an LPGer, but using petrol instead, at massively increased cost (double, tripple???), is pretty much in line with his madnessjbs' ways.  :Smile:

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## The Fresh Prince

Well had a crap last tank on the E20. Only got about 320km with 50km left for my 1000bt. So probably would have got about 350km possibly if I'd stuck with it.

So just went to fill up at the crappy self service place, paid my money and the friggin pump wouldn't work. A nice Thai man waiting behind me tried to explain "You You, Money Money!!" so I said I's already paid but it turned out they'd run out. 

So I went to Shell garage next door and went for the Red 95. Is that the good one you were on about BB?

I asked him to fill it up but he could only fit about 32L I think (I was on the phone) and it was only 30bt/L. First thing is, how can it be 4bt cheaper than the Jiffy station on the main road and also, there is no way my tank is 43L.

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## INTJ

^^ Could be to do with not wanting to pay out for another valve job ?

As I understand it, older BMW engines are not suitable for LPG.

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## Bettyboo

^ I've heard that too, although I have zero experience of the issue meself...

^^ The red 95 from Shell should be the stuff; Vpower, but it's currently 33.63 baht per litre (or was when I filled up 2 days ago. Gasohol95 is at 30.64, but I thought that was an orange pump at Shell???

I think you got the Fuelsave. I've found this second best, so far. Nowhere near as good as the V-Power, but a lot better than any 91's of any type. It'd be interesting to see how this goes against the E20; I reckon it should be a little better.

Fuel Price - THAILAND

FuelSave Disel B5: 26.59  V-Power Diesel: 29.88  FuelSave Gasohol91:29.14  FuelSave Gasohol95:30.64  V-Power Gasohol 95:33.63

*What is special about Shell V-Power Gasohol?* 

A unique formulation that contains components selected for their ability to help deliver more power, improved acceleration and enhanced responsiveness.Shell V-Power Gasohol 95 with Ethanol 10% mixture is designed to bring out the best performance of your car with affordable price.Designed to prevent power-robbing deposits forming on the valves and injection systems.  In addition it is formulated to clean up existing deposits to help enhance the responsiveness of your engine.  Using Shell V-Power Gasohol 95 can help keep a new car performing like new for longer and can help rejuvenate older cars.Now ready for your new experience, the first country in Asia
1. Dirty valves with carbon deposits before use Shell V-Power Gasohol 95
2. Shell V-Power Gasohol 95 helps remove carbon deposits
3. Clean valves after use Shell V-Power Gasohol 95

I'm sticking with the Shell95 V-Power, as it's the most economical allround and it gives the car noticeably more power than the other fuels.

I did see some *95 benzine at Petronas* under Taksin bridge, right next to the Peninsular hotel. At 40 baht per litre, it may not add anything to me little motor, but I'm tempted to give it a try; haven't seen this at other Petronas stations around Bkk.

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## The Fresh Prince

> ^^ The red 95 from Shell should be the stuff; *Vpower,* but it's currently 33.63 baht per litre (or was when I filled up 2 days ago. Gasohol95 is at 30.64, but I thought that was an orange pump at Shell???


Vpower, bugger, that was the name I was trying to remember. I was sat staring at the pumps from the entrance and my mind just went blank. :Smile: 

Ok so it looks like I got the Gasohol 95 again. Nevermind, I'll send my self a text now with Vpower written on it for next week.

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## Bettyboo

^ You'll love it FP - F1 inspired!

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## The Fresh Prince

I love anything to do with F1 and being inspired. :Smile:  Next week.

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## Mr Earl

Cant beat real 95 benzine.
The old beemer sure is enjoying her recent tank full.

That V-power 95 is the next best.

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## madjbs

Just drove to Phetchabun and back. Averaged about 8.5 km/l driving at 140 kmh, not too bad...

I like to use petrol over LPG because the car is more powerful and more responsive. It is also better for the old engine and safer, as I don't know who fitted the system etc.. I don't do a huge amount of miles so the extra cost is not a big deal.

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## The Fresh Prince

Somehow I just got 12 days and 430km out of the tank of Gasohol 95. There was one day where I had to leave the car in town coz I'd had a few bevvies but that's still pretty good going.

So today I pulled into the garage with 1km left on my computer. I found out why I didn't get the Vpower last time, the garage I've been going to isn't a Shell garage. Anyway, with 1km left I didn't dare go looking around so got the same as last time, got the guy to fill it up and he could still only fit 35 liters in. So either I don't have a 43L tank, my computer has no idea what its on about or there is some kind of reserve system in the tank.

I really cant see what the point would be in a reserve tank if they're not going to tell you about it. Especially 8 liters, that's 88km's. Gonna have to do some more work on google about this one.

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## The Fresh Prince

> Especially 8 liters, that's 88km's. Gonna have to do some more work on google about this one.


Ok, I think I've solved the mystery. :Smile: 

From another forum:

_Hi ,
I'm new to this forum and have only recently bought a black Mazda 2 1.5 sport.  Great car does everything I'd expect just two problems as I see it:

1.Blah Blah Blah

2. The trip computer/dashboard flashes completely empty, with no remaining miles when there are 2 gallons left in the tank.  I can understand Mazda not wanting their drivers to be running out of fuel, but writing off 2 gallons from a 9 gallon tank seems a bit over zealous.  
I've got the car booked in for the dealership to have a look at it, just wondering whether anyone else has found the same problem and if you know whether it's possible to have it recalibrated?  The delaership didn't know, apparently they need the car in to be able to see whether there's any adjustment.
I look forward to hearing from you,
Regards,
Rich_

Then he replied, later on the thread.

_OK folks the car went in today to be checked out, and big surprise... it's a feature!  The engineers have now checked with Mazda UK technical and have been given the answer that it's been designed that way.  Apparently having 2 gallons of petrol swishing around in the tank when all the guages are flashing empty is good for the engine.  Draining the last few drops of petrol from the tank into the engine is apparently no good for the mechanical bits and bobs.  And there's me thinking that was the job of the fuel filter on the car - never mind, it isn't going to change and thus I'll just have to live with it._



So 2 Gallons is about 7.5 US Gallons or 9 Imperial Gallons. I'd say that the Thai gas stations likely use US Gallons and that is how they get the 43L in the tank. :Smile:

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## Bettyboo

Thanks FP - Honda must be the same then.

So, saying that the tank is X when only X - 9 litres (or so) is 'useable' seems very strange to me... & this 9 litres, or so, is 100kms, so it has a major impact on the driver/car ownership proposition. Quite irritating.

Anyways, I've stuck with Shell V-Power 95 for the last few weeks. Seems to get me about 11km/l around town, and 17km/l when on the motorway.

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## aging one

> So 2 Gallons is about 7.5 US Gallons or 9 Imperial Gallons. I'd say that the Thai gas stations likely use US Gallons and that is how they get the 43L in the tank.


You drinking early FP?  :Smile:

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## The Fresh Prince

Oh yeah, that took me a sec to spot. :Smile: 

ok

So 2 Gallons is about 7.5 US Liters or 9 Imperial Liters. I'd say that the Thai gas stations likely use US Liters and that is how they get the 43L in the tank. :Nana:

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## klongmaster

> Honda must be the same then.


just out of interest, do you guys always run your car down to the last drop before refilling or is this just for the purposes of this exercise?

My car never gets below half on the gauge before it's refilled if I'm using it for personal driving. If it's used for tours it's refilled after every trip.

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## aging one

I run down to near empty simply so I can check the mileage I am getting.

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## Thetyim

> So 2 Gallons is about 7.5 US Liters or 9 Imperial Liters.


A litre is an international standard measure
It is the same volume everywhere

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## klongmaster

> I run down to near empty simply so I can check the mileage I am getting.


funnily enough you get exactly the same result if you take the mileage when you fill up and then take the mileage again when you fill up...

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## The Fresh Prince

> just out of interest, do you guys always run your car down to the last drop before refilling or is this just for the purposes of this exercise?


I think I've always done it. Now I know that there's still 8-9 Liters in the tank I shall continue to fill up when the computer says low.

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## Bettyboo

I pretty much agree with the above; I've been getting low to check the tank size, and as a generally accurate place to start measurements (i.e. when the computer says 10km then I'm usually in the garage at that point), hardly risking engine damage; especially if these cars have 9 litres (100kms) 'unseen' after the warning light has been on for 45kms and the computer says zero... Still find it very hard to believe that the manufacturers hide 9 litres of fuel???

I volunteer FP to run til the car stops.  :Smile:

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## The Fresh Prince

> I volunteer FP to run til the car stops.


Bollox to that, I was crapping myself last time when I got down to 1km. :Smile:   Can't we get Mythbusters to sort that one out?

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## Bettyboo

^ are you the same guy that was driving 270km/h up RamaII??? Come on man, get a red can of petrol in your boot, and go for a long aimless drive. Do it for the team.  :Smile:

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## The Fresh Prince

Nope, it was a 170 and it was Kalaprapruk. :Smile:

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## Mid

*Three percent of  petrol in Thailand is of low quality* 
Nuttaporn  Chanchokpong

*BANGKOK,* 16 October  2010 (NNT) - The Department of Energy Business (DOEB), Ministry of  Energy, has randomly tested the quality of fuels from petrol stations  throughout Thailand. Three percent of oil retailers are found to produce  low quality petrol; most of them are operators from the northeastern  region. 

Out of 6,500 petrol retailers randomly selected, 200 or three percent of  them are selling low quality fuels. The Department has taken legal  actions against the offenders. The amount of low quality oil has  declined from last years, which had taken up to 5 percent of the  selected petrol stations. One of the reasons is that the DOEB has  ordered to change the fuel color so contamination can be spotted easily. 

In addition, next year the Department will improve the testing standard  by assigning regional energy offices to control and inspect the quality  of fuels in the gas stations in their own localities. 

thainews.prd.go.th

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## The Fresh Prince

Did the survey include the mom & pops petrol stations selling a bottle of gas for 20bt in Hua Hin? :Smile: 

I've been on the Shell VPower now for 2 or 3 tanks, cars running better than ever. I'm consistently getting 450km for my 35liters of fuel, having to go a bit out of my way to find Shell garages though.

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## Bettyboo

> *Three percent of petrol in Thailand is of low quality* 
> Nuttaporn Chanchokpong
> 
> *BANGKOK,* 16 October 2010 (NNT) - The Department of Energy Business (DOEB), Ministry of Energy, has randomly tested the quality of fuels from petrol stations throughout Thailand. Three percent of oil retailers are found to produce low quality petrol; most of them are operators from the northeastern region. 
> 
> Out of 6,500 petrol retailers randomly selected, 200 or three percent of them are selling low quality fuels. The Department has taken legal actions against the offenders. The amount of low quality oil has declined from last years, which had taken up to 5 percent of the selected petrol stations. One of the reasons is that the DOEB has ordered to change the fuel color so contamination can be spotted easily. 
> 
> In addition, next year the Department will improve the testing standard by assigning regional energy offices to control and inspect the quality of fuels in the gas stations in their own localities. 
> 
> thainews.prd.go.th


I don't believe it. This is just a way of kicking out some well positioned petrol station owners who don't have the required connections; the concessions'll be sold off to the 'right' people (and the prices will increase as the petrol quality decreases cause TiT)...

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## Bettyboo

> I've been on the Shell VPower now for 2 or 3 tanks, cars running better than ever. I'm consistently getting 450km for my 35liters of fuel


V-Power baby!!!

The car runs better, faster, stronger pick-up, more miles to the litre; works out best on the price per kms ratio too. It's the best fuel I've tested. Not that it matters so much, now that the missus has taken over her vehicle; the bangs and scrapes have started to come...

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## The Fresh Prince

> now that the missus has taken over her vehicle


Unlucky dude  :Sad:

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## Bettyboo

^ that's life. I never wanted a car in this crazy Bkk traffic. But, now I've had a taster, I'm gonna get meself a nice big black Fortuner (on extra big wheels & blacked out windows; probably add a military sticker or 2), soon as...

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## The Fresh Prince

> soon as...


Soon as my wife takes mine I'm goin for an RX8. :Smile:

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## Bettyboo

^ Nice, but lots of money. Have you checked out the Subaru range? Nice cars, not crazy expensive (but quite crazy expensive); for 1.6m you can get one of their nice 4x4 numbers, much better than a CRV...

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## Marmite the Dog

I bunged 500B of that V-power in the other day. It didn't fell any different to green 91. The Vios was still just as gutless.

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## Mr Earl

> ^ I'm gonna get meself a nice big black Fortuner (on extra big wheels & blacked out windows;


Don't do that!
For significantly less money you could build a 400hp+ hot rod like Custommax  has done, (Toyota Crown engine swap-transform to GT-car)
It might be a bit thirsty but I guarantee you it's a blast to drive compared to a jack-off Fortuner.

----------


## Mr Earl

> I'm goin for an RX8.


Pretty sensible fun car. I would not turn my nose up at one.

----------


## Bettyboo

^ true, but not true at Thai prices...

I might finally give in, MrEarl, to these fukers in Fortuners... They are everywhere, and fighting them all is draining my resources; I might consider joining them...

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## Mr Earl

> ^ true, but not true at Thai prices...
> 
> I might finally give in, MrEarl, to these fukers in Fortuners... They are everywhere, and fighting them all is draining my resources; I might consider joining them...


I cant stand them!

Nice looking 4dr Vigo for sale here in the classifieds for a decent price.

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## The Fresh Prince

Yep, I'd go Vigo over Fortuner any day of the week.

----------


## Mr Earl

> Yep, I'd go Vigo over Fortuner any day of the week.


Yea me too,

But I'm still partial to the rig Customax built.

he hasn't said what it costs but I reckon he's got around 700k in it.

About 350k for the old Toyota Crown and about 350k for the perversion.
Seriously he's got a Saloon with 400hp; that's some serious kick in the pants.

It ain't no McLaren MB but a McLaren MB will set you back a half a million USD!

I think I'd sell my left nut just to drive one.

----------


## The Fresh Prince

> But I'm still partial to the rig Customax built.


I was impressed with that build.

----------


## stickmansucks

Hi,

Is there really any difference between regular gasoline of different brands ?

Is there really any difference between regular gasohol of different brands ?

True that because of this stupid useless marketing filling a tank is more difficult here than in UK !!!

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## Bettyboo

I came to the conclusion the the expensive Shell one was slightly better for the Honda City than any other petrol. It was more expensive, but you got extra miles out of it.

The different prices in the lineup for each brand gave nearly exactly the same cost per km - they've worked it out so it looks like you have a choice, but it's all the same. I liked the shell super-V, or whatever it's called because you did get a lttle bit more power too. 

We went LPG, so the whole petrol 'problem' passed us by. LPG has paid for itself within a year or so, and we're now saving money. No problems with the LPG at all.

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## Neverna

> I liked the shell super-V, or whatever it's called because you did get a lttle bit more power too.


That's the same as my experience.

----------

