#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thai Visas and Visa Runs >  >  Problem getting Thai visa to the USA

## IndianaGentry

I apologize if this has been covered somewhere else- I have searched and read numerous posts, but I can't find anything that seems to apply to my situation.  If you know of a similar post, please let me know.

Also, sorry in advance for the long post...  I figure I should put as much info into this as possible in order to get the most accurate responses.  

Here's the background...

I made my first trip to Thailand in 2009.  I fell in love with the place, and decided I would return in 2011.  I told some Thai friends here in the USA (who own a Thai restaurant) that I wanted to learn to speak some Thai before I went back.  They eventually forwarded my info to their sister in BKK, who in turn "introduced" me (via email) to her friend (Wat) who teaches English at a Thai university.  I worked night shift at that time, so the 12 hour time difference was great- when she was teaching I was working.  We used Skype, etc. to chat, and when she would leave to teach a class her co-workers would sit at her desk and chat with me.  I became friends with the whole English department.  LOL  There was never any flirting, etc- we just chatted and became friends.  (I probably helped them with English more than I learned Thai.)

Fast forward to 2011, and Wat offered to pick me up from the airport on my return trip.  Over the first few days of my trip I met with her and the many friends I had met in her English department.  One thing led to another, and we soon realized that we were attracted to each other.  It was very awkward for me, because I have always been a "sworn bachelor for life."  There was something different about Wat, though- she is very smart, has a good job, owns a couple of properties, saves her money, and she is definitely not hunting for a husband.  She's traditional in all the best ways, and atypical in all the best ways.  (Keep in mind, we've been "together" for about 5 years now... there has never been any push to get married, although we have discussed that it would probably happen if one of us moved to the other's country.  Never any requests for money, etc.  She is fiercely independent.)  

So, it is now 2016 and I have been to Thailand 5 times now.  On the last 2 trips I stayed at her place.  I've gone to work with her, sat in on classes, met her family, and we've traveled to other countries together (Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia...).  She has not been to the USA, though.  I've met her family, and I'd like her to meet mine.  I'd like her to see what fall and winter is like in the midwest, because she has never seen anything like that in Thailand.  

So, this is where our problem begins.  

She has applied for a tourist visa 4 times now, and has been denied each time.  The first 2 times she applied for a tourist visa, the third time I did the "sponsorship" paperwork, and the 4th time (about 10 days ago) was another tourist visa attempt.  

In our most recent attempt, I spoke with my local congressman who sent a "letter of consideration" to the US Embassy.  I hold a respectable job in my community, and I've had the same career for 22 years.  I'm a very stable guy.  Wat has done everything she can to show her strong connections to Thailand- she works at a government university, gets free healthcare because she works for the government, cares for her mother, she is now the head of her department, she is starting her own tutoring school on the weekends, she owns 2 properties (she lives in one, her mom lives in the other), she has raised her niece and nephew, owns a new car, etc...  Lots of ties to family, property, and her career.  

In the most recent visa interview, they refused to even look at the paperwork that she is required to bring.  They did not even open the folder!  They refused to even confirm that the letter from my congressman was received or read.  When they would not look at her paperwork, she started telling them about the new documents in her packet (a letter from the Dean about her promotion, documents showing the lease for her new business, etc.).  While she was telling the "interviewer" about these things, he told her to "stop talking!"  They asked her about me, and she said that we are basically boyfriend/ girlfriend, although we don't refer to it that way... and they called her a liar!  (She admits to a relationship, but she's a liar???  How is that a lie???)  

So, I get it- they think she's going to run off and get married.  I understand that, although it couldn't be further from the truth.  They are making a VERY far-reaching assumption based on no proof.  If they would have reviewed the documents that she was required to bring, they might have understood that.  She was even planning her trip so that it would fall between teaching semesters, and she would be back in time to teach.  

Of course, they give her the usual paperwork that says, "you are welcome to re-apply and submit additional paperwork that shows how your situation has changed."  THAT part is INFURIATING to me!  She has applied 4 times now, and what happened in that most recent interview?
-They refused to look at the documents that showed how her situation has changed.
-They told her to "stop talking" during the interview.
-They insulted her (called her a liar) for telling the truth.
-They refuse to acknowledge even the existence the letter from my congressman.

Oh, and the fee for this interview has gone up to ฿5700 (about $172.00).  More than half a month's salary for many Thai people!  How do they expect the average Thai person to be able to re-apply four times like she has?  She is fortunate to have a good salary, but this is cost-prohibitive to a good number of Thai people.  

So, at this point, I'm out of ideas.  Even though we have done everything "the right way," they refuse to give her an appropriate interview!  (I have spoken to my congressman about the recent results, and was told that they would gladly try to offer help if she applies again.  They also followed up with the State Department, but they basically sent back a "cut and paste" response.)  

All of my friends say "just marry her," but that is not what we want.  I just want her to be able to visit the USA for a couple of weeks, meet my family, and do a little bit of traveling over here.  I want her to see my way of life so that if we do decide to get married (many years from now), she will have an understanding of what things are like here.  We both intend to be retired or very close to retirement before getting married, IF that is even a future option.   

Can anyone offer a different idea for getting her over here for a couple of weeks?  The only route that I have not pursued yet is getting an immigration lawyer involved, because it seems that the expense would be too much for a 2-week visit...  For what an immigration lawyer would cost, I could go back to Thailand again.  If we were planning on getting married, that would be different.  Are there any travel agencies in Thailand that might have more success for getting her a visa rather than doing it herself?  

Thanks for your time reading all of this, and thanks in advance for any input.  Hopefully I've included enough details.  If I haven't, I might go back later and edit this with anything that appears to be a "common question" in your responses.

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## Conche

> Oh, and the fee for this interview has gone up to ฿5700 (about $172.00). More than half a month's salary for many Thai people! How do they expect the average Thai person to be able to re-apply four times like she has? She is fortunate to have a good salary, but this is cost-prohibitive to a good number of Thai people.


Your letting her pay for that ??

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## IndianaGentry

> Your letting her pay for that ??


Yes.  That's what it says, right?  

As I said, she is traditional in all the best ways, and atypical in all the best ways. She has never asked for money, and she is very independent.  I have offered to pay, but she refuses.  She's not in it for money.  

So, back to the main question- Any idea how to get her a visa for a 2-week visit to the USA???

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## S Landreth

Couple things,....

Something about this is fishy. She sounds as if she would have been a great candidate to get a Visa (property/family/job).

If she was caught (and hasn’t told you) by the embassy misrepresenting a document in the paperwork she gave to them, they will have a problem with her.

The embassy might also know something about her you don’t. You might want to ask her (without insulting her) to show you the results of this background check,…….

Welcome To The Police Clearance Service Center Special Branch Royal Thai Police

good luck

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## IndianaGentry

> Couple things,....
> 
> Something about this is fishy. She sounds as if she would have been a great candidate to get a Visa (property/family/job).
> 
> If she was caught (and hasnt told you) by the embassy misrepresenting a document in the paperwork she gave to them, they will have a problem with her.
> 
> The embassy might also know something about her you dont. You might want to ask her (without insulting her) to show you the results of this background check,.
> 
> Welcome To The Police Clearance Service Center Special Branch Royal Thai Police
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion!  

I've seen the majority of the stuff that she has turned in, and my congressman followed up with the State Department regarding her interview- they didn't mention anything about her failing anything, but their answer about not showing enough ties to Thailand did seem like a "cut and paste" job.  Hard to tell how much they really looked into it, honestly.  

I'll mention that police report to her, and see what happens.  I appreciate the link!

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## katie23

To the OP : sent you a PM. Hope it helps. 

Maybe something is off, but I'll take  the post at face  value.  I know  of some ppl who were denied US visas, because their papers  or circumstances were either off or insufficient.   Btw, I've been to the US & went through the visa process. Asked Davis for some tips durinf that time. I went there for a conference & got a 10-yr multiple entry. I had all the correct papers & had traveled to many countries prior to the US trip.  Sometimes, it depends on thw visa officer . The one who interviewed me was really thorough & asked a lot of qiestions ( to me & the girl before me). A  friend of mine applied a year layer, and she was just asked 2 questions. The officer didn't even look at her docs.  Both of us applied for the visa online, b4 the actual interview.  Pardon the typos, frm fone

Btw, both my friend & I are Filipino citizens & have traveled extensively prior to the US trip.

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## toddaniels

The criteria "must have sufficient thais err ties to thailand" is totally subjective..

It is my experience that they know BEFORE a thai shows up for the "interview" if they're gonna get a visa or not and the interview is just a formality..

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## Loy Toy

> The embassy might also know something about her you don’t. You might want to ask her (without insulting her) to show you the results of this background check,…….


Exactly what I was thinking.

Something has happened in the past that is throwing a spanner in the works.

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## Davis Knowlton

I don't buy it. If what the OP says is true, she would have had no problem getting a visa. I say this based on 28 years in the USG, including six in Thailand.

Why was she refused? The OP doesn't say. The Embassy is required to tell the failed applicant why he/she was refused.

The story is either total BS, or has some huge holes in it.

And, the Embassy doesn't think she is running off to the US to get married. If that was the goal, an easily-obtained fiance visa would do the job.

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## nidhogg

> Why was she refused? The OP doesn't say. The Embassy is required to tell the failed applicant why he/she was refused.


Indeed:

Visa records are considered confidential under U.S. law. This means that we cannot disclose any information about visa cases to third parties, including American citizen relatives or friends of applicants. Please be aware that visa applicants are informed in writing (in both Thai and English) of the reasons for the denial at the time of interview. More information about visa denials is available at the Department of State website. 

Frequently Asked Questions | Bangkok, Thailand - Embassy of the United States

Sorry OP, but think you need to be asking some hard questions of your gf.  She knows the reason for the refusal, and it is unlikely to be 214(b) from what you are saying.

(and the cynic in me advises you NOT to say "were you refused under 214(b)?") - see what she comes up with (and don't forget, she got the info in English and Thai - while the embassy cannot show you the document, no reason why she cannot).

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## IndianaGentry

> I don't buy it. If what the OP says is true, she would have had no problem getting a visa. I say this based on 28 years in the USG, including six in Thailand.
> 
> Why was she refused? The OP doesn't say. The Embassy is required to tell the failed applicant why he/she was refused.
> 
> The story is either total BS, or has some huge holes in it.
> 
> And, the Embassy doesn't think she is running off to the US to get married. If that was the goal, an easily-obtained fiance visa would do the job.


Jesus Christ, you are a cynical bunch.  I came here looking for help, and I've been accused of more crap than I've received help.  I didn't write that long post for fun- I tried to give as much background as I could offer so that I would get the best answers possible.  

 They have not given her any detailed reasons why she has been refused, except for their few comments about me. The paper that they gave her is very general It only states that she has not shown enough ties to her country to make them believe that she is not returning.  

 As I mentioned, the most recent interviewer did not even look at her paperwork. She takes photos of everything and sends them to me, so I know she is going through the process. I have seen the confirmation letters for her appointments, which has a receipt at the bottom to show how much she has paid, etc.  I sent a copy of that paperwork to my congressman so that they would know what date their letter had to arrive by.  

 What the embassy should be doing and what they are doing are two different things. I feel like we are getting railroaded somewhere in this process. At almost $172 per 10 minute interview, it's quite a money making scam that they have going on.

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## Davis Knowlton

^I think realists, rather than cynics would be a better description.

If she was turned down for insufficient proof of intent to return, she is screwed...no matter how many times she reapplies....until she determines what additional documentation they require.

I have seen hundreds of cases like this over the years. As Katie stated above, I offered some suggestions prior to her interview, and she came out with a ten-year multiple entry visa.

I haven't seen anyone 'accusing' you of anything. Something is 'off' with her paperwork or background checks.

I might add that consular officers do not arbitrarily deny applicants on a whim. They have to document a reason, and their decision, and the reason for it, is reviewed by their superior. If she has been refused four times, probably by four different officers, there's a reason.

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## Neverna

> Wat has done everything she can to show her strong connections to Thailand- she works at a government university, gets free healthcare because she works for the government, cares for her mother, she is now the head of her department, she is starting her own tutoring school on the weekends, she owns 2 properties (she lives in one, her mom lives in the other), she has raised her niece and nephew, owns a new car, etc... Lots of ties to family, property, and her career. 
> 
> In the most recent visa interview, they refused to even look at the paperwork that she is required to bring. They did not even open the folder! They refused to even confirm that the letter from my congressman was received or read. When they would not look at her paperwork, she started telling them about the new documents in her packet (a letter from the Dean about her promotion, documents showing the lease for her new business, etc.). While she was telling the "interviewer" about these things, he told her to "stop talking!" They asked her about me, and she said that we are basically boyfriend/ girlfriend, although we don't refer to it that way... and they called her a liar! (She admits to a relationship, but she's a liar??? How is that a lie???) 
> 
> So, I get it- they think she's going to run off and get married. I understand that, although it couldn't be further from the truth. They are making a VERY far-reaching assumption based on no proof. If they would have reviewed the documents that she was required to bring, they might have understood that. She was even planning her trip so that it would fall between teaching semesters, and she would be back in time to teach.


Hello IndianaGentry. Just to make things a bit clearer for me to understand your girlfriend's situation, I'd like to ask you a few questions if I may. 

* Did you see a copy of Wat's visa application form? (this time or any time before)
* What documents did she provide? Could you state what they are, please? (Please include any letters she also provided [for example, a letter from her employer])
* When Wat applied for a tourist visa the third time and you did the "sponsorship" paperwork, what does that mean exactly? That you wrote a letter saying you would pay for everything? Or you would take care of her? Or something else? 
* Has Wat ever been married?
* Had she ever applied for a US visa before she met you?

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## Davis Knowlton

^Good questions.

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## IndianaGentry

> Hello IndianaGentry. Just to make things a bit clearer for me to understand your girlfriend's situation, I'd like to ask you a few questions if I may.


* Did you see a copy of Wat's visa application form? (this time or any time before)
A:  There is an online application, which she submits and I do not see.  However, she has asked me before about "what is the best way to answer (insert question)" while filling it out.  While in BKK, I have reviewed copies of the documents that she has taken with her to the interviews, looking for ways to improve her application.  I have also seen the generic, 1-page form that they hand out when she gets denied.  

* What documents did she provide? Could you state what they are, please? (Please include any letters she also provided [for example, a letter from her employer])
A:  She has taken deeds/ titles to the 2 properties she owns, bank records, purchase info on her new car (now 2 years old), a letter from the Dean at her university, a word document we prepared with info on her family (idea copied from a friend who got a visa), photos of her with the students she tutors on the weekends, etc.  The pile has grown each time.  

* When Wat applied for a tourist visa the third time and you did the "sponsorship" paperwork, what does that mean exactly? That you wrote a letter saying you would pay for everything? Or you would take care of her? Or something else? 
A:  More or less, yes.  I found a site called "www.path2usa.com", which provided an outline and sample documents to use.  Since this was the third application, we decided to try something new and go with this.  I had to send an "invitation" letter, my tax forms, bank info, letter from my bank verifying my accounts, letter from my H.R. confirming my employment, dates for her visit, etc...  She presented that with her documents.

* Has Wat ever been married?  
A:  No.

* Had she ever applied for a US visa before she met you?  
A:  No.

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## Seekingasylum

A problem arises with successive visa refusals in that the next visa officer is almost certain to maintain refusal lest they appear lax in their commitment to the work, a sort of peer group pressure to conform to a pattern. 

The tactical error was the initial two applications which were seemingly made without support by the Amercian sponsor. Had he weighed in from the outset with sworn declarations, proof of relationship, corroborating evidence of ties that would act as an incentive to return but endorsed by the sponsor etc then she may well have got the visa at the first attempt. 
I would find a damn good immigration lawyer to draft a submission addressing all the issues and compile a further application.

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## IndianaGentry

> I would find a damn good immigration lawyer to draft a submission addressing all the issues and compile a further application.


That is pretty much the only thing I have not done yet.  I need to look into the cost, and see how much it will cost to at least get a consultation.  Any time the word "lawyer" comes into a situation, dollar signs start running through my mind.  I'm wondering if the cost of a lawyer is going to be worth a short 2-week visit?  She has to travel in between semesters at the university, so travel plans get pretty limited for us.  

Has anyone used an immigration lawyer?  Does anyone know what an approximate cost is?

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## IndianaGentry

> To the OP : sent you a PM. Hope it helps.


Got it- thank you!!!

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## Norton

> A problem arises with successive visa refusals in that the next visa officer is almost certain to maintain refusal lest they appear lax in their commitment to the work, a sort of peer group pressure to conform to a pattern.


Sounds the case here. I knew a good many embassy folks. In general a bunch with the power and attitude to make things difficult for Thais seeking visas. A young single woman is by definition suspect and likely to be refused especially in your case where she has romantic ties with you. Suspicion being she may traveling to US under a tourist visa to get marry you while there. 




> Has anyone used an immigration lawyer? Does anyone know what an approximate cost is?


I have not as I knew many US embassy staff and never had a problem. A Brit friend of mine always used a service with good result. He told me it cost him about 60k baht. However may be too late given she has been refused 4 times. 

The company he used. Give them a call. Good luck.

TSL & Associates' Wireless Rd. office is across the street from the United States Embassy, and in close proximity to all of the other major embassies in Bangkok Thailand.

Wireless Rd. Branch : 130-132 Sindhorn Building, Tower 1, 2nd Floor, Wireless Rd. Lumpini, Patumwan Bangkok 10330

TSL Thailand | Immigration, Visa, Legal Services | Thai Visa, US Visa, UK Visa, Australia Visa

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## Seekingasylum

As a rule of thumb, you should not pay more than around 35,000-40,000 baht for a decent lawyer and make sure he is accredited with a verifiable track record - a lot of phoney shysters here in Thailand.

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## IndianaGentry

Thank you for the recommendations!  I'll pass this along...

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## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> Hello IndianaGentry. Just to make things a bit clearer for me to understand your girlfriend's situation, I'd like to ask you a few questions if I may.
> 
> 
> * Did you see a copy of Wat's visa application form? (this time or any time before)
> A:  There is an online application, which she submits and I do not see.  However, she has asked me before about "what is the best way to answer (insert question)" while filling it out.  While in BKK, I have reviewed copies of the documents that she has taken with her to the interviews, looking for ways to improve her application.  I have also seen the generic, 1-page form that they hand out when she gets denied.  
> 
> * What documents did she provide? Could you state what they are, please? (Please include any letters she also provided [for example, a letter from her employer])
> ...


Thanks for your reply. You seem to have covered all the bases so I can only conclude that there's something within application form itself that the visa people don't like, but it does seem pointless inviting Wat to an interview and refusing to even look at her documents. 

By the way, did you or Wat buy a return flight ticket for her for specific dates? (I'm not sure if that is expected or recommended by US immigration folks but it helps show a bit of commitment for a return to Thailand). 

And one final question (and I apologise if you find it inappropriate - you don't need to answer it), is there a big age difference between the two of you?

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## IndianaGentry

> Thanks for your reply. You seem to have covered all the bases so I can only conclude that there's something within application form itself that the visa people don't like, but it does seem pointless inviting Wat to an interview and refusing to even look at her documents. 
> 
> By the way, did you or Wat buy a return flight ticket for her for specific dates? (I'm not sure if that is expected or recommended by US immigration folks but it helps show a bit of commitment for a return to Thailand). 
> 
> And one final question (and I apologise if you find it inappropriate - you don't need to answer it), is there a big age difference between the two of you?


We had not bought tickets at all.  When she found out the end date for the summer classes and the beginning date for the next semester, we targeted that 2-week period as her chance to fly here.  We DID have printouts of the available flights, though.

There is only a 2 year age difference- we're both in our mid-40's.  It definitely doesn't look like a bargirl situation when we are together.  (In fact, when we see 60 year old guys walking around with 20 year old girls, we often point it out and jokingly say, "Look- true love!"  LOL)

Someone said earlier that the visa officers may just be following what the last officer did, which is my biggest fear.  If they are doing that, then it seems there is basically zero chance of getting approved.  It's just so frustrating...  

Thanks again to those who have offered your suggestions.  It is greatly appreciated!

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## Davis Knowlton

If she actually has all the equity she claims, she probably would have been far better off never mentioning the guy, and just saying she wanted to go tour around for a week or two, Probably wouldn't have had a problem.

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## Neverna

> Someone said earlier that the visa officers may just be following what the last officer did, which is my biggest fear.  If they are doing that, then it seems there is basically zero chance of getting approved.  It's just so frustrating...


If the content of all the documents and letters is the same, it's pointless trying again because whatever it is they don't like will still be there.  




> If she actually has all the equity she claims, she probably would have been far better off never mentioning the guy, and just saying she wanted to go tour around for a week or two, Probably wouldn't have had a problem.


Possibly. And that gets me to thinking ...




> She has applied for a tourist visa 4 times now, and has been denied each time.  The first 2 times she applied for a tourist visa, the third time I did the "sponsorship" paperwork, and the 4th time (about 10 days ago) was another tourist visa attempt.  
> 
> In the most recent visa interview, ....
> 
> ... While she was telling the "interviewer" about these things, he told her to "stop talking!"  They asked her about me, and she said that we are basically boyfriend/ girlfriend, although we don't refer to it that way... and they called her a liar!  (She admits to a relationship, but she's a liar???  How is that a lie???)


When Wat first applied for a visa to the US, did she mention you at all? And was she ever asked something along the lines of, "Do you have any friends or relatives in the USA?" And if she was asked that, how did she reply? (And the same for the other 3 times she applied.) Has she always mentioned you as being a boyfriend? 

Have there ever been any 'slight' changes to how she has described her situation or yours?

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## Neverna

^ Because that might explain the "liar" accusation (if there has been a change between what she said before and what she is saying now).

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## cdnski12

Bin Dere Dun Dat. I finally gave up. So many Thai women visiting the USA leave the relationship and enter the Thai Massage Parlour Industry. It didn't help that my Thai GF was from Issan. The age difference was also a problem.

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## IndianaGentry

> If she actually has all the equity she claims, she probably would have been far better off never mentioning the guy, and just saying she wanted to go tour around for a week or two, Probably wouldn't have had a problem.


She has it.  I've been there.  I've seen it.  




> When Wat first applied for a visa to the US, did she mention you at all? And was she ever asked something along the lines of, "Do you have any friends or relatives in the USA?" And if she was asked that, how did she reply? (And the same for the other 3 times she applied.) Has she always mentioned you as being a boyfriend? 
> 
> Have there ever been any 'slight' changes to how she has described her situation or yours?


As I recall:  
1st attempt- She only mentioned her friend's family (the ones who own the restaurant)
2nd attempt- I think she mentioned knowing that family again, and me.
3rd attempt- I tried the sponsorship route, so I mentioned how many times I had been to Thailand, when I met her, etc.  I don't think I really addressed the relationship in my paperwork, but she was asked about it in her interview.  She answered the same as this time (4th attempt).
4th attempt- As stated earlier, she told him that we are more or less boyfriend/ girlfriend, but we don't really call it that due to the distance.  I think that has been about as specific as it has gotten.

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## Davis Knowlton

> 1st attempt- She only mentioned her friend's family (the ones who own the restaurant)
> 2nd attempt- I think she mentioned knowing that family again, and me.


I don't recall you mentioning the friend's family restaurant before.

This might be the problem. They may see this as an attempt to get a visa so that she can skip and go work in the restaurant.

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## nidhogg

Some thoughts FWIW based on bits from people I have known who applied and got visas.

If a holiday, they like to see a detailed itinerary.   

Work letter should be quite specific - how long worked, how much salary, taking entitled leave - start back at work date (which obviously should fit with the time away).

The flight stuff is tricky - I think most of the ones I know about had tickets booked (which is a bit of a bugger as it is taking a gamble).

from your description, she sounds as though she hits the criteria, can't think what is the main sticking point.

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## Davis Knowlton

> from your description, she sounds as though she hits the criteria, can't think what is the main sticking point.


Agree. She appears to qualify on her own. Often foreign 'sponsors' sticking their nose in only serves to complicate matters.

All I can see thus far is possibly the restaurant angle.

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> from your description, she sounds as though she hits the criteria, can't think what is the main sticking point.
> 
> 
> Agree. She appears to qualify on her own. Often foreign 'sponsors' sticking their nose in only serves to complicate matters.
> 
> All I can see thus far is possibly the restaurant angle.


Possible.  Not married, no kids might play a role as well if they are looking at it from that angle.

Slightly condescending that they think a government employee in a uni would toss that over for a waitressing job in a friends restaurant though!

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## Davis Knowlton

> Slightly condescending that they think a government employee in a uni would toss that over for a waitressing job in a friends restaurant though!


Maybe.....or not. We've got doctors in government hospitals here chucking it to work abroad as nurses or physical therapists.

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## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by nidhogg
> ...


Are you really that out of touch??

A woman with no chance of a decent marriage offering a guaranteed family life where she has full equality in matrimonial property disposition, no effective role in a society which considers her gender as tenth rate, earning at best $600US a month is going to give up an opportunity to live and work in the world's most successful capitalist society?

Look, arriving back on planet Earth, the US visit visa regime operates the principle that any applicant is automatically assumed to be a permanent migrant until they prove otherwise. They start from a very low base indeed and have a mountain to climb before the visa officer is content that they truly intend to visit.

Thai working as prostitutes in London hail from many walks of life.

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## nidhogg

> earning at best $600US a month .


You simply have no clue as to what is going on around you, do you?

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## S Landreth

One question,.

Because your friend works for a Thai University and is a Thai civil servant did you see the Official letter from her superior/s that she was given permission to leave the country on the dates shell be visiting you in the states?

I have no doubt our US embassy will want to see this Official letter granting her permission to leave.

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## IndianaGentry

> One question,.
> 
> Because your friend works for a Thai University and is a Thai civil servant did you see the Official letter from her superior/s that she was given permission to leave the country on the dates shell be visiting you in the states?
> 
> I have no doubt our US embassy will want to see this Official letter granting her permission to leave.


Yes, I have seen the letter from the Dean.  This year he also updated it to include the fact that he hand-picked her to be the new head of the English Department.  I think I mentioned somewhere in the thread that we have had to wait to get her teaching schedule before applying so that we could base her travel dates around the semester breaks.  Her longest break comes between the summer session (which is usually shorter) and the session that begins in August/ September.

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## Bobcock

Personally I have never dealt with the US Embassy but many times with the Brits..... I think she has offered too many reasons to stay in the US rather than be detached and just going on a holiday.

That said, if she had just gone as a tourist and offered an itinerary that said Indiana and not Disneyland and Pier 39 that questions would have been raised. Sadly once an embassy decides that they don't like the look of someone, the chances of that changing are slim........

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## birding

My experience, although not with the US, is that someone with a history of (frequent) overseas travel and return to Thailand has a better chance of obtaining a visa than someone who has never left the country before.

If she has not traveled out of the country before get her to make several trips to other countries, say Lao, Cambodia, Singapore, India, Japan, New Zealand and Australia as a tourist before attempting another application.

You could arrange to meet her there and see some more of the world yourself although she doesnt need to mention this in visa applications for these countries.

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## nidhogg

^ excellent point.

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## cyrille

Though it's a rather time consuming and expensive way to get to the US.

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## Davis Knowlton

There have been many valid points raised in this thread. Perhaps she provided too much information initially - the rule is never give them more than they ask for. Let them run the interview...they know what they want to see.

The foreign 'boyfriend' probably would have served her better by staying out of it.

The friend's family restaurant may have raised eyebrows.

Lack of previous tourism also could have been a trigger.

In my opinion, based on considerable experience, after four refusals she's not getting the visa. There is something there they don't like. Period.

Time to move on.

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## terry57

> My experience, although not with the US, is that someone with a history of (frequent) overseas travel and return to Thailand has a better chance of obtaining a visa than someone who has never left the country before.


I'll just add a story that relates to this thread.

One of My Hangbags workers married a Seppo recently.  He is 67 and she is 38. She has never been on a plane before let alone on a trip to USA.

Anyway 6 months ago they were married and the deal was she return with him to live in America. 

Handbag told me the application was in the works and she was waiting on the Interview At the USA Embassy. 

I thought she was in for a very long wait considering the age difference and the fact they were not living together and only known each other for 12 months.

Suprise Suprise, I think it was around 8 weeks later and she was granted her new shinny Visa and yesterday they jumped a plane to Septic land. No problems getting the Visa at all. Just took a while. 

She'll be back after Seppo checks out and with a nice bit of money as well.

Fair enough that. 

Very good girl by the way and Old Seppo seemed a decent guy. Cashed up and well turned out.

Good luck to them.

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## Dragonfly

> The friend's family restaurant may have raised eyebrows.


the biggest red flag, no wonder she was denied after she gave that little gem

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## katie23

I think in the OP, it was stated that the girl has traveled to other SEA countries. Maybe she should travel to a visa-requiring one, like Korea, Japan or Aus, before she applies again for the US. (But I think Thais don't need visas for Japan?) 

My friend R, who was granted a 10-yr visa a year after me, also had a lot of prior travel. She was sponsored by family in the US (not bf). 

Another friend, A, went for a conference in the US some yrs ago. At that time, she had no prior travel. However, all her papers were in order & she was a presenter at the conference, so she was granted a single entry visa. She attended the conf.& stayed for some weeks more to visit family & for tourism. She went back to her home country. The next time she applied for a US visa, it was for tourism only & she was granted a 10-yr visa.

In my experience, the US embassy in PI doesn't need a detailed itinerary, but all other papers need to be in order. They didn't need flight or hotel bookings either. As Davis said, let them run the interview & give only the info that is asked.

On a lighter note, another friend, O, a guy, who is quite a comic, was also granted a 10-yr visa this year. He said in his interview that he wanted to visit Disneyland & to watch Celine Dion sing in Las Vegas  :Smile:  He has only been out of the country once. He was sponsored by family & got a 10-yr multiple. Sorry for typos, frm fone.

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## IndianaGentry

> My experience, although not with the US, is that someone with a history of (frequent) overseas travel and return to Thailand has a better chance of obtaining a visa than someone who has never left the country before.
> 
> If she has not traveled out of the country before get her to make several trips to other countries, say Lao, Cambodia, Singapore, India, Japan, New Zealand and Australia as a tourist before attempting another application.
> 
> You could arrange to meet her there and see some more of the world yourself although she doesnt need to mention this in visa applications for these countries.


I'm glad you said this, because I suddenly don't feel so crazy.  We are trying to arrange a last-minute trip to London.  She is using a travel agent to book her own trip.  If she gets a UK visa, then I'll find a flight to meet her there!  She booked a hotel through Agoda, and she can cancel it without penalty.  

She has been taking short trips over the last couple of years.  When I have gone back to BKK, we have visited Singapore, Malaysia, Cambodia, etc.  She has been to Vietnam on her own, also.

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## birding

> Originally Posted by birding
> 
> 
> My experience, although not with the US, is that someone with a history of (frequent) overseas travel and return to Thailand has a better chance of obtaining a visa than someone who has never left the country before.
> 
> If she has not traveled out of the country before get her to make several trips to other countries, say Lao, Cambodia, Singapore, India, Japan, New Zealand and Australia as a tourist before attempting another application.
> 
> You could arrange to meet her there and see some more of the world yourself although she doesnt need to mention this in visa applications for these countries.
> 
> ...


The lady boss got a UK visa no problem but she had been to NZ twice, OZ, India as well as Lao.

I sponsored her and we traveled together. We had no firm bookings as we toured around with a rental staying in homestays and only had my correspondence with my travel agent with tentative flight bookings dependent on a visa being granted.

I think the previous travel and return is a big factor.

A thought, how about a tourist visa to Canada ?

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## aging one

> I'm glad you said this, because I suddenly don't feel so crazy. We are trying to arrange a last-minute trip to London.


How long does that take? 






> The lady boss got a UK visa no problem but she had been to NZ twice, OZ, India as well as Lao.


24 hours not bad. Plus you let us now know she has been to New Zealand 2 times.

Sorry Indiana as I am a Yank as well. But its fishy the same as the first time I posted weeks ago.

Are you a fisherman by chance? Alone in a slow boat drifting along with your line out?

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## IndianaGentry

> Are you a fisherman by chance? Alone in a slow boat drifting along with your line out?


I have no idea what you are saying.

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## Seekingasylum

Err, getting knocked back by the septics, four times, is no feather in her cap when it comes to applying for a visa to a country in which one assumes she has expressed no previous interest, has no connections and where neither of you has visited previously.The Brits can be as difficult as the septics. They may well just see ' pressure to migrate' and little else.

Go and visit Turkey where she does not require a visa and may be Egypt if she wants to build some tourism credentials.

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## Neverna

^ Yes. What he said. Getting a visa to go to the UK will be no easier than to the USA. 




> We are trying to arrange a last-minute trip to London.  She is using a travel agent to book her own trip.  If she gets a UK visa, then I'll find a flight to meet her there!  She booked a hotel through Agoda, and she can cancel it without penalty.


How last minute are you talking about? It might take some time to get a visa to visit the UK (if she is successful). 




> She has been taking short trips over the last couple of years.  When I have gone back to BKK, we have visited Singapore, Malaysia, Cambodia, etc.  She has been to Vietnam on her own, also.


All good, so I wonder what it is that the US immigration doesn't like about your girlfriend or her situation.

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## Gazza

A 3-4 day trip to Japan may be better. Now, no visa necessary for Thais and a country where a lot of Thais are already working illegally. 
Having a PP showing that she's visited Japan and returned at least shows that she's not seeking employment with better pay than what she's already getting in Thailand.

Plus, if she's already traveled to other SE Asian countries then it's only natural that one might then wish to sample western countries and their culture.

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## katie23

Do Thais need a visa for S. Korea? If yes, then maybe Korea would be better? Sometimes having that visa sticker from one country increases the chances of getting another visa, esp if it's for tourism (& not business).  You could make this Plan B, in case the UK visa is not approved. After the UK, Japan or Korea trip, apply for a US visa again. Maybe she could search for a conference to attend in the US & have the organizers issue her the invitation letter.

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## beerlaodrinker

An American mate of mine living in udon Thani recently applied for a tourist visa for his Thai wife to accompany him to the states so he could under go a cataract operation on his remaining eye, ( lost the other one in a botched operation in udon) he,s retired military but she got knocked backed for the visa 3 times, my buddy was pissed and wrote his congressman but to no avail.  Had to go space A by himself. You would think 20 years in the military serving your country would of given her application some credibility? He was quite embarrassed that she couldn't get a visa.

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## beerlaodrinker

> Do Thais need a visa for S. Korea? If yes, then maybe Korea would be better? Sometimes having that visa sticker from one country increases the chances of getting another visa, esp if it's for tourism (& not business).  You could make this Plan B, in case the UK visa is not approved. After the UK, Japan or Korea trip, apply for a US visa again. Maybe she could search for a conference to attend in the US & have the organizers issue her the invitation letter.


dont know about the Thais, but Lao folk definately need a visa for Korea as did I but it was a mere formality, the Japanese visa for my wife was a totally different scenario, I didn't need a visa but the wife had to produce the house documents proving she had title and we had to top up her bank account to show she had funds, plus show all our Japanese rail bookings and hotel bookings, no big deal but it took a few days

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## Seekingasylum

Visa section folk are not human in the sense we all are. 

They work in isolation, immunised from any daily reality affecting the people on whom they sit in judgement by a cloistered lifestyle in which every conceivable measure is taken to protect them from adversity. The only folk they can truly relate to are themselves and other foreign office wallahs - they do not socialise with anyone outside their clique. Their local knowledge is gleaned through this prism of privilege and inevitably they are influenced by petty prejudices, cliches and also distortions fostered by locally engaged staff who invariably will say anything they think their masters want to hear as they ingratiate themselves.

Refusals by these folk are not personal, they are merely subjective guesses masquerading as policy operated according to best practice. The system itself is inherently flawed but created out of the crucible of opportunity and the economic imperative - inevitably, someone will get fucked over every day. The ratio of refusals to visa issue assumes a significance in itself and becomes a 'norm' which institutionally must be observed. 

It's a lottery for many, indeed.

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## sweaty

Just to state the obvious; there is something specific about the initial application which they did not like. Subsequent applications with a slight story drift no doubt only adds to the fishy aroma.

My experience with Thai/UK visas: someone with a hell of a lot less ties to Thailand was granted a tourist visa no problem.

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## Gazza

Thinking about it some more, it may well be disadvantageous  trying to get a visa and stamps from another western country.

Visa staff are now going to see that she's applied four times and been refused each time. Then see that she's applying yet again for the fifth time after having been to a western country. It may well seem to them like someone is clearly desperate to get into the States for more than to visit relatives. I'm sure visa staff are well aware of certain tricks that are used to try and obtain visas.

Had she filled up her passport first with stamps and visas before applying the very first time then perhaps she may have had more luck.

Still, this thread at times, reminds me of the threads of yore like ''How can I get my gf to Europe. She wants to see snow.''

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## IndianaGentry

UPDATE!

She received a UK visa yesterday!  Picked up her passport from the travel agent, and she's good or 6 months from her travel date in August.  Success!!!  

Now I have to get a plane ticket with matching dates.  Searching for deals now!

Hopefully this will help her get the US visa on the next attempt!

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## aging one

08-07-2016, 05:36 PM 			 			 



> The lady boss got a UK visa no problem but she had been to NZ twice, OZ, India as well as Lao.





Today



> She received a UK visa yesterday! Picked up her passport from the travel agent, and she's good or 6 months from her travel date in August. Success!!!


Which is it?

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## Cujo

This must be costing a fortune.
I reckon she dissapear as soon as she's cleared customs. :sexy:

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## IndianaGentry

> 08-07-2016, 05:36 PM 			 			 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by birding
> 
> The lady boss got a UK visa no problem but she had been to NZ twice, OZ, India as well as Lao.
> ...


The first quote as not written by me.  The second one was.

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## toddaniels

> Visa section folk are SNIPPED OUT THE B/S RANT


That hasta be the most broad brush generalization I've read in quite a while comin' from you man ..

The burden is on the thai to show sufficient ties to thailand to return, period end of story..

I know Thais who own businesses, cars, houses etc yet have been denied, and conversely I've seen some pretty skanky thai whores get approved.

About the only thing in your statement which was remotely true was



> It's a lottery for many, indeed.

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## Neverna

> She received a UK visa yesterday!  Picked up her passport from the travel agent,


Why did the travel agent have her passport?  :Confused: 




> and she's good or 6 months from her travel date in August.  Success!!!


Will she be staying in the UK for 6 months? 
How long did she say she'll stay in the UK on her visa application form? 




> Now I have to get a plane ticket with matching dates.  Searching for deals now!


Let's just hope the UK Border Force let you into the country!   :Smile:  




> Hopefully this will help her get the US visa on the next attempt!


Maybe. Cross your fingers.  :Smile:

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## Iceman123

Well done and enjoy your holiday in the UK.

If she gets knocked back for the next US visa, just get a new one.

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## IndianaGentry

> Why did the travel agent have her passport?


Because that's how they put the visa in it.




> Will she be staying in the UK for 6 months?


No, we will be there for about 6 days... but her visa is good for 6 months. 




> Let's just hope the UK Border Force let you into the country!


That shouldn't be a problem!

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## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> Why did the travel agent have her passport? 
> 
> 
> Because that's how they put the visa in it.


The travel agent put the visa in her passport? That seems odd.

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## Seekingasylum

What do you mean by a 'travel agent'?

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## Davis Knowlton

I am awash in skepticism over this entire tale.

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## Seekingasylum

Indeed, a troll, Davis but why on earth do they bother?

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## Davis Knowlton

I have no idea. Bored, I guess.

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## aging one

Wonder if its Steve the golfer? :Smile:

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## CaptainNemo

American immigration truly are moronic bastards, they genuinely believe their shite country is amazing. I agree that they default to reject, and like credit ratings, once you start getting rejected, you need to stop applying.
The restaurant may have a dodgy past; and her profile doesn't match that of a tourist.

Why don't you both immigrate to Canada?!

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## Chally

just marry her

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## Stumpy

I did a whole thread here on TD on my wife's plight as Davis K and some other may remember. Mine was further complicated after she got the VISA as I was offered a Job while back in the US with her and we decided to stay as I took the job. We got married and started the naturalization process. We were not ready to marry(well I wasn't) but it was OK. The challenge was to prove there was no intent for her to emigrate to the US using the tourist Visa.  

My comments. 

It is a bit of a lottery. My GF at the time did a very thorough Visa submittal online form for the interview. Land ownership, vehicle, aging father to return to and a job when she returns. I was her guarantor with a US address to stay at. She was in and out in 30 minutes with a 10 year Visa.

Now with that said I will say I saw no less than 2 dozen Thai people come out either crying or distraught about being declined(mostly females ranging from 20 to 40). Now some clearly didn't dress right, looked like they were about to go out on the town for the night. Others appeared totally unprepared. I saw this one guy who was holding his baby outside and his GF/wife ( i am not sure) came out crying as she was denied for the 3rd time. The American guy was livid.

I am not sure IndianaGentry is a troll. His plight is not uncommon but something clearly was amiss in her interview. However to others comments, trying one right after another time is not a good idea. My wife read that on the Thai forums of people who attempted to get a VISA and were declined. But regardless they must be told why they were declined.

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## Stumpy

Here is the one thread

https://teakdoor.com/thai-visas-and-v...n-journey.html (Our US naturalization journey)

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## Davis Knowlton

^That's a great thread!

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## Agent_Smith

> What do you mean by a 'travel agent'?


When I took my gf to Australia back in '08, we both submitted our visa applications to some agency that dealt with that sort of thing in Phuket.  Some tiny little office off a main road a few kms from Patong.

Perhaps that's what that OP is talking about.

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## IndianaGentry

> What do you mean by a 'travel agent'?


She used a travel agency... A travel agent is a person who works for a travel agency.  Surely you've heard of this line of work sometime during your travels.   

The travel agent helped her book the trip to the UK.  You give your passport to the travel agent, they mail it to get the visa, it is returned to them.  The same way an individual has to mail their passport to certain countries, and they mail it back with the visa attached.  (Not all visas are issued on arrival.)  

I still can't believe how many here are calling me a troll...  I've been a member here for a long time.  Granted, I'm much more of a reader than a poster, but I've still been a member here for quite a while.  Look at my past posts, and you will see that I've tried to offer a few helpful comments where I could.  Now I show up with a legitimate question to a personal situation, and I'm called a troll?  Fuck off.  You must have a shit life with a lot of time to kill while sitting around and reading all of this, casting judgments, etc...  

To those who HAVE been helpful, either in this thread or via private message, I greatly appreciate your suggestions and input.  It's good to see that some members actually want to help each other out!

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## Seekingasylum

Don't know what happened there but I had posted something and it disappeared.

From what you have said, you are either being played as a gormless sappy twat by your trollop girlfriend who is milking you or you are a troll.

There is no way a UK visa can be obtained in the manner you have described. It is simply not possible. It is a lie. A fabrication. A deceit. A deception. A con.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> There is no way a UK visa can be obtained in the manner you have described. It is simply not possible. It is a lie. A fabrication. A deceit. A deception. A con.


That is absolutely correct. There is NO WAY a travel agent could get a UK visa for ANYONE. It's a lie. Period.

----------


## Bobcock

> Fuck off. You must have a shit life with a lot of time to kill while sitting around and reading all of this, casting judgments, etc...


Pretty much summed up the gent in one sentence.....

Mind you, there is no way a UK Visa is issued by post in Thailand.... I've been involved in several applications and they must be done in person, Hell UK citizens have to apply in person to get a new passport FFS....

----------


## Seekingasylum

Explain yourself, you Welsh person?

Is that permissible, you dickhead, partisan moron mod?

----------


## cyrille

> Hell UK citizens have to apply in person to get a new passport FFS....


My last passport was applied for and received via express mail from Hong Kong to Chiang Mai.

Three and a half years ago.

----------


## Bobcock

Hong Kong no longer issues passports, and I know for a fact that I had the last passport issued there.

Applications must be made in person in Sukhumvit Soi 13. I've had several friends stay with me having had to travel to Bangkok from Chiang Mai to apply.

----------


## Bobcock

> Explain yourself, you Welsh person?
> 
> Is that permissible, you dickhead, partisan moron mod?


To you? Meh..... You aren't worthy.....

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by Bobcock
> 
> Hell UK citizens have to apply in person to get a new passport FFS....
> 
> 
> My last passport was applied for and received via express mail from Hong Kong to Chiang Mai.
> 
> Three and a half years ago.


The process transferring the issuing of British passports from regional centres to the UK began in 2012 and was completed in 2014 when I think HK was the last to close up shop.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by Seekingasylum
> 
> 
> Explain yourself, you Welsh person?
> 
> Is that permissible, you dickhead, partisan moron mod?
> 
> 
> To you? Meh..... You aren't worthy.....


Err, it wasn't actually meant for you, you dullard.

----------


## Bobcock

Who else is Welsh?

Dullard.... That's just too funny......

----------


## Phuketrichard

> My wife read that on the Thai forums of people who attempted to get a  VISA and were declined. But regardless they must be told why they were  declined.


They are NOT required to give an excuse for declining applicants.

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## Davis Knowlton

[quote=Phuketrichard;3319141]


> They are NOT required to give an excuse for declining applicants.


Sorry, but if you are speaking of US visas, that is totally incorrect.

----------

