#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  US Army Thailand 1971-1975

## Borey the Bald

US Army in Thailand 1971-1975


 I did a search of TD archives and could find no posts about this topic:  what were we doing here and why.  While many here may believe we had no business being involved in the war in SEA to begin with, a little discussion of the history cannot be a bad thing.  I thought some members may have personal experiences or opinions that they might like to share.  I'll be happy to start.


 I dropped out of university and volunteered for the Army in 1967, not because of a strong belief in the righteousness of our cause in Vietnam, but because I was tired of school, wanted to see the world, and Oriental women turned me on.  After 2 years in Vietnam, mostly with the 25th Infantry Division, I volunteered (I'm a sucker for volunteering) for assignment to Thailand.  I had no idea what I was getting in to, and could only hope it would work out for the best.   


 The Army camp was located just east of Highway 2 about 10 kilometers south of Udon near the village of Non Sung.  This was a new and rather posh base, complete with very nice barracks, dining hall, club,  and even a bowling alley, much of which I never used.  ( The buildings are still there, but don't know what it is used for now.)  Many of us (and I'm guessing there were a few hundred soldier here) rented houses across HW 2 in the village, where we spent most of our off-duty time.  The village was not developed – I don't remember bars or clubs, just a decent restaurant.  For real action, we had to travel into Udon.




 Flying over our home base just south of Udon.



 Our unit was call the 7th Radio Research Field Station, which was an intelligence collecting site.  We spent 12 hours a day working in a windowless operations building, often being bored silly.  In 1972, with the drawdown of troops from Vietnam, several Army aircraft were transferred to the unit, and based out of the Udon RTAF base.  I was lucky enough to get assigned to that detachment, and spent most of the rest of my time in Thailand on flight status, flying either out of Udon or Utapao.



Preflight on the tarmac, Udon RTAFB about 1973.



 The aircraft didn't look like much from the outside.  Just modified Beechcraft King Air's.  But when they were build (about 1970), they were loaded with state of the art electronics and a computerized internal navigation system (very important since Global Position System (GPS) was not operational until 1994).  Keep in mind the Apple 1 computer wasn't developed until 1976 so these planes were way ahead of their time.  The plane I usually flew on was one of only three ever built, and one of those was lost in Vietnam.  We flew regular mission supporting operations in Laos and, later, Cambodia until early 1975.

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## chitown

Not sure if this is the right forum, but I am looking forward to this thread and pics. Keep them coming,

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## dirtydog

You quite likely know or used to know one of our members, he was also based there around that time, there is a thread about it on here somewhere, hopefully someone with a better memory will post a link to it.

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## DrB0b

> I did a search of TD archives and could find no posts about this topic: what were we doing here and why.


A few TD members wrote about their experiences in this area. There were a few threads but they can't be found anymore as some idiot crippled the forum search function so it only shows a maximum of 500 results.

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## sabang

Fascinating- do keep it coming, please. The righteousness or folly of the 'cause' is a geopolitical matter, most often determined in hindsight, and invariably judged with hindsight. Your individual tapestry of experience is a valuable archive. I would say the same for an individual account from the other side.

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## DrB0b

> Fascinating- do keep it coming, please. The righteousness or folly of the 'cause' is a geopolitical matter, most often determined in hindsight, and invariably judged with hindsight. Your individual tapestry of experience is a valuable archive. I would say the same for an individual account from the other side.


I agree. Forget the politics. The experiences and the stories are worth telling, and reading, on their own.

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## Ceburat1

Many military retirees and ex-service men living in and around Korat.  Most were US Air Force stationed at Tac Lee near here.  F-105's plus other type aircraft were flown on missions to VN from early 60's to the end in 70's.

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## Borey the Bald

I am really hoping some other old vet would pick up the thread and run with it.  I may have to dig out some more photos tomorrow to add to this.

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## jizzybloke

> Forget the politics. The experiences and the stories are worth telling, and reading, on their own.


Yep come on BtB keep it coming!  :Smile:

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## khmen

> Originally Posted by sabang
> 
> 
> Fascinating- do keep it coming, please. The righteousness or folly of the 'cause' is a geopolitical matter, most often determined in hindsight, and invariably judged with hindsight. Your individual tapestry of experience is a valuable archive. I would say the same for an individual account from the other side.
> 
> 
> I agree. Forget the politics. The experiences and the stories are worth telling, and reading, on their own.


+1. Look forward to more Borey, would be very interesting to hear about Laos and Cambodia too.

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## isanmick

Looking forward to this thread, don't be shy Baldy.

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## armstrong

That's an 'Affirmative' on liking the thread Borey.   The Eagle Has Entered The Go Go Bar.

Over.

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## Borey the Bald

When I earlier showed the above photo, I should have provided a better description.  The aircraft in the photo is the second type of Army reconnaissance aircraft in our unit.  It's a radio direction finding aircraft code name Laffing Eagle, a bird that I rarely flew on.  Note the vertical antenna at the end of the wing.  We are flying over the village on Non Sung with Highway 2 (barely visible) leading toward Udon to the left of the picture.  The main part of our base is not visible to the right of the picture.  The large structure in the distance (looking like a huge circular fence) we called the elephant cage.  It was a highly directional multi-frequency antenna system.






 This is a picture of the type plane I usually flew in (code name Left Jab).  This is what it looked like when the direction finding antenna pod was lowered for operation.  My specialty was North Vietnamese voice radio communications.  I never could speak the North Vietnamese dialect worth a shit, but I knew their procedures and understood well enough to be good at my job.  Our unit had two of these planes.  As I mentioned earlier, the third plane of this type was shot down while flying out of Phu Bai in central Vietnam in 1971.  I've read that it was hit by a surface to air missile while over North Vietnam.

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## Rural Surin

If we know anything today, Thailand [or the high elite and govt sectors] made quite a bundle as America's pimping-out process and underwriting took place from 1955 through 1975. Naturally, the hundreds of millions of dollars were welcome and changed the social landscape in those years as it had never been before [in comparative time measurements].

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## bsnub

Looking forward to more posts on this thread! Thanks Borey! Have a green!

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## SEA Traveler

During this same time period BtB, while I was stationed in Korea, my high school friend and Uni Frat brother was in the US Army and stationed up in that area.  He was an MP.  I'm going to direct this thread URL to him as he may find it interesting.

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## Shy Guava

If I remember correctly, the facility at Non Sung was called Ramasun. It achieved vague notoriety as being the only American facility left operating after the Kukrit Pramoj government effectively ended the US military presence in Thailand. This was because its intelligence gathering capacity was important to the Thai military.

I worked all around the perimeter of the camp in the 90s and it seems to be pretty much a ghost town now.

My boss in the early 70s had, what he called, a cross between a King Air and a Queen Air. He was the only civilian I knew at the time who had unrestricted flying privileges around Thailand.

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## Boon Mee

> I am really hoping some other old vet would pick up the thread and run with it.  I may have to dig out some more photos tomorrow to add to this.


Closest I came to that area (& that's a few klicks for sure) is once pulling into Sattahip to offload some VIP who was headed out of U-Tapao.

Good thread, Borey.  :Smile:

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## ltnt

Other than coming to Bangkok on I&I, (intoxication and intercourse) leave in May of 67 I have no memory of black ops in Thailand.  The closest we came to it was in support of 5th special forces in Ban mi Touit, Central Highlands.  

We built a serviceable bunker system, perimeter clearing, CMP runway and a few other facilities for them.  Our base camp was on the Cambodian border and a morning land mine sweep was mandatory prior to any start of the workdays. We often found Charlies hardware inside the perimeter.  

Our Montanyard troops, really primitive looking Indian like creatures were some of our fiercest combatants.  Often at night during flares going off and random fire these people would huddle so close to you they almost became part of you.  They liked to stroke the body hair on the Ferangs as they had never seen men with hair on their arms.  Happened a lot with the Vietnamese as well. 

I Served with the 20th Combat Engineers and later transferred to HHC 35th Engineer Group.  5 separate companies, 7 battalions and a couple special engineer companies for port building in Cam Ranh Bay.  Drafted most quickly after dropping out of collage in 65.  Seems Sam had a plan for me.  Spent 15 months in-country and saw most of it from the air and on road recons to expand the drivable roadways in S.VN.  

I'm sure the tour in Thailand was enough to make you want to re-up Baldy.  

BTW, while in Bangkok in 67 there was a bath house where you would strip down and the covey of ladies would pour water on you with wooden buckets first.  Next it was jump into a wooden barrel/tub for some hot water and scrub down.  Next was a rinse and dry-off.  Lastly you got on a table where they scraped your skin with a bone bladed tool and pushed the red dirt from RVN out of your pours.  

The coup de gra was the final rub down with stroking of the pant lizard while insertion of several knotted silk baubles into your anus while bringing about the over the top clasmatic orgasm of your life on pulling the rip cord at just the right moment.  YEEHAAA!!!!  Wish I could find that place now.

Ladies cost $11/24 hr. then and you always got a cab to go at the same daily rate.  The cab went out for food, beer, more beer, food and occasionally we took a ride someplace.

Shared some really great moments on leave with these ladies and never ever had to worry about being ripped off or taken advantage of.  It was a celebration thing.  Lots of smiles, lots of sharing of what you had and most of all a welcome relief from the drudgery of RVN.  Arrived with $250 and left with .25 cents.  Best 7 days your ever going to have at 21.

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## Borey the Bald

> During this same time period BtB, while I was stationed in Korea, my high school friend and Uni Frat brother was in the US Army and stationed up in that area.  He was an MP.  I'm going to direct this thread URL to him as he may find it interesting.


Good idea.   We had a detachment of MPs at the camp providing tight security.  A little like airport security today.  Maybe he could add to the discussion.

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## Borey the Bald

Itnt:
"I'm sure the tour in Thailand was enough to make you want to re-up Baldy."

I was forced to reenlist while there.  Bought a little yellow Mazda pickup truck.  I think that was the only time in my life I could afford to pay cash for a new vehicle. Was great for spending my "off time" driving around Isaan and, later, when our detachment was transfered down to Utapao, it came in handy.  Allowed me to live in a very plush apartment building a very few meters from the ocean on Pattaya beach.  A real hardship tour.

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## Borey the Bald

> If I remember correctly, the facility at Non Sung was called Ramasun. It achieved vague notoriety as being the only American facility left operating after the Kukrit Pramoj government effectively ended the US military presence in Thailand. This was because its intelligence gathering capacity was important to the Thai military.


You remember better than I.  Totally forgot that it was call Ramasun.  

I believe that its importance to the Thai military was its income gathering capacity.

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## Borey the Bald

I thought I'd give you a picture of one of our missions:

Here we are crossing the Mekong River in the area of Ban Nong Kung, Thailand, and Ban Hai, Laos, not far northeast of Udon.


It wouldn't take long to reach the highlands in north central Laos. This was a hotly contested area in the early 70's, with Pathet Lao forces, led and sponsored by North Vietnam, fighting the primarily Hmong forces led and sponsored by the CIA.  I, personally, was targeting North Vietnamese regular forces.

This was my view during the five hour long flights, looking forward toward the cockpit.  The object with the screw shafts directly in the foreground, was the antenna mast in the landing position.  For operations, it was lowered to move the antenna pod away from the interference of the aircraft body.

If I remember correctly, I took this photo as we overflew the Air America base at Xieng Khouang, Laos.

And finally, our approach back at Udon.  I'm showing the larger pictures, since I hope some of you now in Udon, might find them interesting.



This first picture is looking roughly West.



In this view, Udon is to the right.


And this one is looking straight down Highway 2 toward the city.





And finally a shot from a slightly different angle.  Udon doesn't look quite the same anymore.  The good old days.

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## Bobcock

Awesome thread..."

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## Bazzy

Thanks for sharing Mr Bald. Keep the stories coming.

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## ltnt

Hardship tour huh?  Chot dee K baldy.

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## IceSpike

*The U-21, Beechcraft Model 87*, awesome aircracft for it's day. 
(a modified Queen Air withPratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-6 engines)
As they evolved the antennas actually increased lift and speed, reduced drag, and gave numerous techs scars to last a lifetime.

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## Borey the Bald

> Originally Posted by DrB0b
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by sabang
> ...


Khmen,

I would be happy to add stories about Laos and Cambodia, but it is amazing how little I know about those operations.  Since we were daily in situations where there was a possibility of going down in "enemy territory", we were only given access to information that we needed to know to get the job done.  The assumption was made (probably correctly) that if we were captured we would disclose any information that we knew.  And operations that I had personal knowledge of, such as tracking SR-71s over SEA or setting up of electronic gear along the Ho Chi Minh Trail, are now only dim memories.  

As an aside, since "need to know" was such an essential foundation of good intelligence security, I wonder how some bureaucrat could allow a computer system that led the Wikileaks-Julian Assang debacle.

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## Borey the Bald

> *The U-21, Beechcraft Model 87*, awesome aircracft for it's day. 
> (a modified Queen Air withPratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-6 engines)
> As they evolved the antennas actually increased lift and speed, reduced drag, and gave numerous techs scars to last a lifetime.


Once, after an inexperienced tech worked on the electronics, we couldn't get the equipment to work properly.  Flew around for a week just wasting time and acting as target practice dummies.  Eventually they figured out that the antenna had been hooked up backward, 180 degrees out of phase.

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## pasko

Great photos...Thanks for sharing that part history!!!

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## jobsworth

"If I remember correctly, I took this photo as we overflew the Air America base at Xieng Khouang, Laos."

Please correct me because I may be wrong but I always believed that the Air America base was at Vang Vien, half way between Vientiane and Luang Prabang.
Vang Vien has a large disused runway which the backpackers need to cross to get from the bus station to the guest house and restaurant area.

Anyway this forum just gets better and better. Please keep these wonderful threads coming.

" The buildings are still there, but don't know what it is used for now."

I hate to say it but there were allegations that the US base at Udon Thani
was used for special rendition after 911 by the CIA and before that
it was some kind of secret broadcasting station transmitting to Cambodia and Vietnam
like Radio Free Europe in Munich transmitted to iron curtain countries.

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## Andrew Hicks

> Fascinating- do keep it coming, please. The righteousness or folly of the 'cause' is a geopolitical matter, most often determined in hindsight, and invariably judged with hindsight. Your individual tapestry of experience is a valuable archive. I would say the same for an individual account from the other side.


The life of Brian, Kissinger, Woderwick or whoever.  The Romans, the Brits and other colonial conquerors never behave particularly well, but individual experiences seen through the perspective of the moment are very fascinating.  Bring'em on!

Last night I watched the movie, "Air America".  Very entertaining and some great footage of Thailand and aircraft but essentially an anti-war movie which reminded me of "Catch 22".

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## Borey the Bald

Jobsworth,

"Please correct me because I may be wrong but I always believed that the  Air America base was at Vang Vien, half way between Vientiane and Luang  Prabang."

At that time, there were several bases in use all over Laos.  The only one I actually landed at was at Savannakhet, directly across from Mukdahan, Thailand. We regularly flew over a couple  up in the Plain of Jars in north central Laos.

"I hate to say it but there were allegations that the US base at Udon Thani
was used for special rendition after 911 by the CIA and before that
it was some kind of secret broadcasting station transmitting to Cambodia and Vietnam
like Radio Free Europe in Munich transmitted to iron curtain countries."

I don't know anything about after 911, but in the 1970's it was only used as a highly sensitive receiving station.  At night, we could listen to Korean cab drivers.  But it was never capable of transmitting.

Thanks for the interest.

Borey

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## Borey the Bald

Brian,

There were a few characters in Air America that would fit right into the movie "Catch 22".  Some may still be wondering around SEA bumming drinks.

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## michaleo

Fascinating thread, thank you.

How was the contact with Thaipeople in Udon Thani for you?

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## thrilled

Udorn was A fantastic to be during the war.And the city udonthani,was A fantastic place to party.I will never forget those years.

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## Borey the Bald

I was never into the bar scene.  I became domesticated very quickly.  Below is a picture of friends and in-laws in my house in Non Sung.  I got along well with the locals.  I tried to speak the local dialect, but they have always had a hard time understanding me.  My wife and I only spoke Lao-Thai together while in country.

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## luangtom

I was one of the Zoomies assigned to the 7th RRFS at Non Soong. We, too, monitored the Trail in Laos, the NVAF and plotted the Blackbird flights, along with Combat Apple and the rest. I was there from mid-1972 to early-1974. I married a local from Sakhon Nakhon province and we are still together after 38 years. We have a home in amphoe Sawang Daen Din that we visit almost yearly.

Our most active work was during Operation Linebacker II (1972 bombings of Hanoi) and Operation Freedom (the release of POW's in 1973). The saddest day of my tour was in February of 1973 when Baron 52 went down in Laos with compatriots aboard.

We were the US Army ASA sister command US Air Force Security Service. Our other units were in Nakhon Phanom, both air and ground units. I haffta say the name "Silent Warriors" applies to all that served at Ramasun Station, 7th RRFS.

There were memorable party-spots in Non Soong. The Cobra Club, run by "Charlie and Dim", a US Army gent with a Thai wife was frequented often. Slim's tailor-shop was right across the road from the front-gate of the post. The 7th RRFS web-site has photos of many of the others. Ah, the memories.................

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## Borey the Bald

Thrilled,

Were you with the military there, or were you a "contractor"?


Borey

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## Borey the Bald

Luangtom,

Nice to hear from a compatriot.  Most of the time you were there I was on flight status, either in Udon or Utapao.  Stayed away from Ramasun as much as possible.  Only had to go in for pre and post flight briefings.  I didn't know that there was a web site for 7th RRFS.  I'll check it out tonight.  Maybe help me remember some of what is now only a rather dim memory.

Borey

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## Amina

> Many military retirees and ex-service men living in and around Korat. Most were US Air Force stationed at Tac Lee near here. F-105's plus other type aircraft were flown on missions to VN from early 60's to the end in 70's.


My husband is a USAF retiree who served with the F-105 Fighter Bombers at Takhli RTAFB, in Nakornsawan province, a little east of Chainat. He was there in the very early days of the Vietnam war in 1965/66/67, when there were supposedly "No US Forces" in Thailand, and very few modern conveniences available. When Takhli closed for first time in 1970, all the troops and equipment were relocated to the 388 TFW at Korat RTAFB. Then about a year later Takhli reopened, and eventually the F-4 Phantom IIs from Da Nang in Vietnam took over the base until it closed again in the mid seventies and all the USAF departed Takhli for good. Today, Takhli RTAFB is home of the RTAF No. 4 Wing flying F-16s.
Amina Christoph  :Smile:

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## khmen

^Nice to see you posting again Amina, I thought you'd stopped and thought it was a shame as posters such as yourself, with an interesting perspective on Thailand, are a welcome addition to the board.

Anyways, same to you Borey.




> I would be happy to add stories about Laos and Cambodia, but it is amazing how little I know about those operations. Since we were daily in situations where there was a possibility of going down in "enemy territory", we were only given access to information that we needed to know to get the job done. The assumption was made (probably correctly) that if we were captured we would disclose any information that we knew. And operations that I had personal knowledge of, such as tracking SR-71s over SEA or setting up of electronic gear along the Ho Chi Minh Trail, are now only dim memories.


Thank you for taking the time to respond, it's understandable really that soldiers on the ground (or air!) aren't privy to too much information. It's just that the US operations in Laos and in particular Cambodia are an area of history I'm interested in. 

I don't want to start a negative political discussion as has already been stated in this thread but have you read the book by William Shawcross "Sideshow-Kissinger and Nixon and the destruction of Cambodia"? As you can probably tell by the title it's pretty critical of the US Govt's policies in SEA, but I thought I'd mention it anyway because it may be of interest to you. It details some operations you may have been involved in, and may help fill in some of the blanks for you.

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## usual suspect

I did have (but now lost) maps of Thailand dated ~ 1967 showing all the air bases.
 They are available on the net if you tap it in. Took me a while to navigate them due to lack of roads & marked villages back then..still quite interesting tho'.

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## Borey the Bald

Khmen,

Any discussion of the politics of Vietnam would, of necessity, be negative,  I was with the 25th Infantry Division in 1970, and spent a month on the ground in what was called "War Zone C" in Cambodia.  It was unclear who the locals hated more, us or the Vietnamese.  Later, in 1973 to 1975, we flew over many of these same areas.  Some areas were  covered with 500 lb bomb craters, as far as the eye could see.   We seem to have a knack for shitting on defenseless people.  But, hopefully, somebody made some money off of it.  That's what these little wars appear to be about.

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## Boon Mee

> Last night I watched the movie, "Air America".  Very entertaining and some great footage of Thailand and aircraft but essentially an anti-war movie which reminded me of "Catch 22".


That's all Hollywood knows how to make these days.  That & having folks like Hanoi Jane cheering on the NVA.

Big difference from patriotic stuff coming out of the studios in the 40's, eh?  :mid:

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## cambtek

Great thread this with excellent pics.Has anyone read flying through midnight about the flights over laos?
It is one of the best books about the war and available in bangkok.
I live in phnom penh and i would like to hear more about cambodia.These people were the real victims of their greedy king and generals and US foreign policy.They not only had the bejesus bombed out of them but they then got four years of the khmer rouge.
What has happened to the old bases,rotting away or demolished?
I liked the quote about the income gathering capacity of the thai military.
Imagine how many fortunes were made in thailand by generals and businesmen.
I was in bangkok when the KR fell and the khmers swarmed to the thai border.The thai military made more fortunes from us at the expense of the cambodians.
Thailands infrastructure would have been nothing like today without the war.

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## krungbin

Very interesting thread, Borey, many thanks for sharing that experience!

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## Axle

> I was forced to reenlist while there.


Yep, I know the feeling. I had a girl friend that forced me to do certian things when I was 19. They say I have a permanent smile these days.

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## Cujo

Anymore pics?

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## nkped

> If I remember correctly, the facility at Non Sung was called Ramasun. It achieved vague notoriety as being the only American facility left operating after the Kukrit Pramoj government effectively ended the US military presence in Thailand. This was because its intelligence gathering capacity was important to the Thai military.


Ramasan may (or may not) have closed a bit later in 1976.

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## Shy Guava

> I hate to say it but there were allegations that the US base at Udon Thani
> was used for special rendition after 911 by the CIA and before that
> it was some kind of secret broadcasting station transmitting to Cambodia and Vietnam
> like Radio Free Europe in Munich transmitted to iron curtain countries.


The place mentioned most often in connection with this is the big VOA station at Ban Dung, east of Udon and now clearly visible on GoogleEarth.

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## Borey the Bald

Here are a few final pictures of the base:


This is a view of Ramasun Station looking roughly toward Udon.


This is the operations building in which I was locked up 12 hours a day - until I escaped to flight duty.


Here is the highly sensitive and directional receiving antenna, military name FLR9,


And a final look down Highway 2, with Non Sung on the left, the base on the right.  My wife and I both looked at this photo and were amazed.  It was not as we remembered.  Thirty five years have taken a toll on the brain cells.

I need to thank Sam at Hanie.com for letting me use some of his photos of Ramasun.  He does have a few more there for those interested.

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## IceSpike

:fire: 


> Flew around for a week just wasting time and acting as target practice dummies. Eventually they figured out that the antenna had been hooked up backward, 180 degrees out of phase.


The Antenna manufacturer's (NOW) put arrows indicating ""Forward"".>>>>>>
Somewhat Murphy Proof.

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## Bob63

Borey, great thread, particularly the pics. Thanks !

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## ShilohJim

Thanks for the memories Borey, I was stationed at Udorn RTAFB 1965-66. I was an Aircraft Electrician on the RF-101's there. I had just finished 7 months TDY to Guam with the B-52's from Carswell AFB at Ft. Worth TX. We flew the first of the Arclight missions from Anderson AB. Our tankers were at Okinawa, where we were lucky enough to get sent during two typhoon evacs in 1064. Escape from TX was recommended to prevent being killed by a jealous husband!

The year at Udorn was probably my best year with the USAF. Of course when I arrived (Sept. '65) the base was under and expansion and we were quartered in the old Thai barracks with no hot water. A non-typical experience for Airmen. The town of Udon Thani was still pretty small, several bars and tailor shops with plenty of jewelry stores too. Befriended a local guy about my own age and it improved my free time in town because his family owned one of the jewelry shops. I used to escort them to the base, weekly, to exchange the grocery sacks of American money back to Baht at the NCO club. Papasan would get shitfaced at the bar while either the guy or his sister and I were in the counting room. 
Alas, all my pictures have disappeared over the ensuing years and multiple moves but finding the Teakdoor Forum has been great. Hard to imagine the explosion of the population in Thailand from then till now..... especially around Udon. Sleepy little burg to decent sized town now with a lot to offer both visitors and expats. And the Bangkok scene is almost unbelievable, loved both places for different reasons.

Again, thanks for the memories,

Shiloh Jim

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## Amina

[quote=khmen;1915682]^Nice to see you posting again Amina, I thought you'd stopped and thought it was a shame as posters such as yourself, with an interesting perspective on Thailand, are a welcome addition to the board.

Khmen: Thanks for the kind words. No such luck as for me not posting any longer. My husband and I had to travel to Reno, NV, then to Omaha, NE, and finally to Manchester, NH. For that reason I was out of circulation for a while. We met mostly with former USAF friends and aquaintances, and finally topped everything off by visiting with family in New England.
Cheers - Amina Christoph  :Smile: 
P.S. The way things are right now, we are postponing our planned visit to Thailand until early next year or so.

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## sabang

From a different perspective, I meant an old Isaan chap living in the next village from here who had worked for the USAF at the Ubon base. He'd met Aussie's there too, and had fond memories. Apparently you were lucky to get a job working with the military- they were highly sought after. Sadly, he passed away last year.

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## seattlesbest

after serving in the navy in 1966 .which included duty in vietnam i joined the merchant marine and began hauling 500 pound bombs and napalm to satthip for udapao .alt of b52s there at the time.whent back to visit there in 2006,now a thai navy base.the hotel called the white swan was still operating after all the years.my first taste of thai women began there.she did not want to stay at hotel .went to her hut which was all it was,very poor,felt so bad for her situation ,knowing she would have a very hard life.any of you in that area back in the 60s?

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## Smug Farang Bore

> You quite likely know or used to know one of our members, he was also based there around that time, there is a thread about it on here somewhere, hopefully someone with a better memory will post a link to it.


Can't find it but he used to tell stories of his times up country and said he was going to write a book calling it fifteen ways to wok ya dog.
Very funny stuff about being stationed in the boon docks too..

Had B/W photos too...

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## Borey the Bald

I screwed up.

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## Amina

> "If I remember correctly, I took this photo as we overflew the Air America base at Xieng Khouang, Laos."
> 
> Please correct me because I may be wrong but I always believed that the Air America base was at Vang Vien, half way between Vientiane and Luang Prabang.
> Vang Vien has a large disused runway which the backpackers need to cross to get from the bus station to the guest house and restaurant area.
> 
> Anyway this forum just gets better and better. Please keep these wonderful threads coming.
> 
> " The buildings are still there, but don't know what it is used for now."
> 
> ...


jobsworth: My husband and I visited Vang Vien Laos 3 years ago, when my brother-in-law was assigned to the US Embassy in Vientiane. We made a trip to Vang Vien, which used to be an Air America airstrip - better known a "Lima Site 6." Incidentally, the former air ops building is now used as a medical dispensary for the local population. The former gravel runway is primarily used as bus transient and parking areas. In addition, LS-6 was also used by the famous Hmong General Vang Pau, who had his headquarters nearby, and who received most of his weapons/supplies through the Air America facilty at LS-6.
Amina Christoph  :Smile:

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## Invader26

When I was in the RAAF I flew with a US Army unit from Don Muang all over Thailand and into Laos and Cambodia a couple of times. I cannot remember the name of the unit however I sure can remember a few of the pilots and the alcoholic haze of the Chao Phraya "O" Club...

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## IceSpike

> When I was in the RAAF I flew with a US Army unit


Awesome!

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## Oska

Excellent thread. Thanks for sharing.

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## Borey the Bald

I was just reading Mr. Slap's review of the VFW Cafeteria in Korat, which quickly devolved into a discussion of retarded old vets who have to advertise their service or relive the “good old days” in the local bar over a beer.  I realized how this entire thread reeks of that type of senility.  As I never hang around the VFW or Legion hall and never speak of my service to anyone in person, I had to ask myself why I would use the anonymity of TD to do so.  I came to the conclusion that I am becoming a doddering old fool.  But hopefully I still have a grasp on reality, unlike some who are apparently living in fantasy.

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## Borey the Bald

Postscript:


I recently found a few more pictures that really belonged in this thread, so will include them here.


Early in the thread I wrote as one of my reasons for joining the Army was that “Oriental women turned me on”.  This is clearly due to a genetic defect in my family.  My grandfather married an American Indian and my father spent his youth chasing Philippine women.  It would have been easier for Wile E. Coyote to stop chasing the Road Runner than for me to stop chasing oriental women.




My father in the Philippines in 1945. (I hope Davis Knowlton's wife doesn't recognize her grandmother.)


Showing just how unreliable the brain can be after almost 40 years, above I stated “at that time, there were several bases in use all over Laos. The only one I actually landed at was at Savannakhet, directly across from Mukdahan, Thailand.”  Then I found the picture I took when we landed:




The airfield at Pakse, Laos.


Just to prove I didn't spend all my time on my ass in an airplane:




Looking West at the Mekong from the Laotian hills, just North of the Cambodian border.




And finally, what I was fighting for:




Cruising off the coast of Pattaya, 1974.

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## Amina

> ...  I had to ask myself why I would use the anonymity of TD to do so. I came to the conclusion that I am becoming a doddering old fool. But hopefully I still have a grasp on reality, unlike some who are apparently living in fantasy.


Borey the Bald:
From your articulation and posting of your pictures, one can tell immediately that you are NOT a "doddering old fool." My husband and I truly enjoyed seeing all your posted photographs so far, and hearing some of your unique US Army "war stories" etc. But I must say, I for one was pretty unaware of all the American military involvement in Laos and Cambodia at that time, until my husband finally somewhat opened up to me, speaking about his times in SEA more than 45+ years ago. However, what really perplexes me now the most, is the anonymity concerns of our TD members, and why that really is? Should we all be using ficticious names, locations, and avitars?  :Confused: 
Cheers, and thanks again for sharing all those interesting photos from your past. Please keep them coming.
Amina Christoph  :Smile:

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## Borey the Bald

Amina,


My above answer, to a certain extent, was flippant.   My real concern is exercise.  I walk 25-30 miles a week to keep in shape physically.  I try to write a few pages of hopefully coherent thoughts per week to keep in shape mentally.  


The main thing I like about anonymity is that if I post something really stupid, it won't follow me around as if I forgot to zip my fly.  I'm really not too concerned with identity theft or the like.  But maybe I should be.


Thanks for your kind words.


Borey

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## pickel

> However, what really perplexes me now the most, is the anonymity concerns of our TD members, and why that really is? Should we all be using ficticious names, locations, and avitars?


If you venture into sub forums like issues and the lounge, you'll understand the need for anonymity, due to certain vindictive, bitter posters. If you stick to a thread like this, you'll be fine.

I've enjoyed this thread and would like to see more. Cheers to the contributors.

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## KhongGiacMy

I am wondering just who you are. I was one of the 6 98Gs who brought the two Left Jab birds to Ramasun in February of 1973. Your comments show that you were not one of those from the 138th at Da Nang. They were Davis, Dorough, Quarve, Pluff, Shelley and Byrant. Tho only names I remember from the Viet bay are Bahe and Tucker. Tucker was too new and Bahe joined the aviation section later. I don't know who replaced me when I left in December.

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## KhongGiacMy

Now, I think I know who you are.  You were a SP6.  It that not correct? Can you remember the name of the CM lingie who inserted the cassette into the PNH 4 backwards, jamming it, during one of the missions up north?  And since you were there longer than I, I'm sure you have some good stories about Colonel J.J. McFadden. I almost forgot that there was a Vietnamese SSG named Hyslop who was my room mate in the barracks.  I had heard that you later became a Czech interrogator.  Is that true?
KGM

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## Borey the Bald

I'm surprised someone has a good enough memory of those times to "out" me based on what I posted above.  I really intended to remain "in the closet".  If you came up with all those names from memory, I am truly impressed.  After all the time I spent with those guys, my best memory is seeing Dorrough driving his yellow convertible sports car (Honda I think) around Udon with his gf at his side.

I was unable to find any photos of the crews.  Don't know where they went to.  Do you have anything you could post to add to the story?

Borey

(I enjoy your nick)

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## KhongGiacMy

I've recently contacted Quarve and Pluff, as well as, Ed Haer, a VS/FR at the station during that time. 
 Whatever happened to Dorrough?  I heard he married his girlfriend and they went stateside, but she left to return to Thailand and he followed. 
 Tucker became a Czech and retired as a SGM at Fort Stewart. 
  Pluff lives in Minn and Quarve is still with Aurora in San Antonio.  
  I may have some pictures but most relate to Da Nang and the 138th.  
  You may recognize the F4 wash point behind me in the avatar photo.

I find that I have a better memory for the names of those with whom I attended language school than with those with whom I served.  An exception is the group with whom I worked at FSA, but then again, we kept bumping into each other for ten years.  I can not remember very many from the two CEWI battalions I was in.

Do you remember the Adjutant, LT Yount?  I later served with MAJ Yount at FSA and with LTC Yount at the 501st CEWI Bn.

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## Borey the Bald

Since there is apparently a (very) little interest, here is my only photo of a fellow crew member during a mission in late 1973 or 1974:

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## Bangyai

Might be of interest to those reading this thread.












Lot of other stuff on Youtube

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## Borey the Bald

^Some interesting stuff there.  I guess I wasn't aware of the extent of US involvement in Thailand in the mid-60's.  

My memory of Utapao in 1974-1975 is mostly of B-52's and U-2 spy planes.  But it was still a busy place.  Our Army aircraft were designated U-21A's, so our pilots, to make themselves sound more important, would give the designation as U-2.....1A.

Thanks for the memories.

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## RickThai

I was stationed at Camp Samae San during the mid-70s.  Absolutely loved the entire lifestyle.  I would go on about my mission, but it was classified!

It is great to read about some of the old places.  I lived in Kilo Sip for awhile, and I can still remember lying in a hammock, drinking an ice-cold Singha, while watching a U-2 spiral up into the sky before heading over to Vietnam.

Ah to be that young again!

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## ltnt

Just How can a mission in 1970 still be classified?  sounds like my idiot brother working for Martin/Lockheed who said he couldn't tell me what he did or else he'd have to kill me.  What B.S.  Over self importance on his part.  He did electrical harness gear for aircraft.

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## Bazzy

> Just How can a mission in 1970 still be classified


I'm sure the spooks don't send letters out to the participants to say "Hey its now declassified you can blab about it all you like."

Would you risk a jail sentence?

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## spudge

> Just How can a mission in 1970 still be classified?


Makes Govt X look bad: classified
Makes Govt X look good: Look out news media, here it comes!

Bazzy got it right above, and anyway who cares? I really like seeing the pics of TH and other places that ex-servicemen (of all nationalities) post from that era or any other really. They provide a fascinating snapshot (lit. & fig.) into a past era.

I wish I had something for the thread. My ancient MiL was a cook at a US base during the Vietnam war and said that she had a crush on an Italian. Were there any Italian soldiers involved or would it have been an Italian-American or Italian contractor or something?

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## RickThai

> Just How can a mission in 1970 still be classified? sounds like my idiot brother working for Martin/Lockheed who said he couldn't tell me what he did or else he'd have to kill me. What B.S. Over self importance on his part. He did electrical harness gear for aircraft.


Actually is was in the mid-70's, and as someone who once held a clearance that included access to nuclear weapon activation codes, I personally believe that some "secrets" are better left unsaid.

Besides, what happened several decades ago is not something that I would necessarily want to bring up (especially with relative strangers!).

Can't understand why it bothers you so much (unless your trolling for "secrets").

You wouldn't happen to be a covert agent, would you?

Lighten up and enjoy your life is my motto.

BTW: Although I was Army, I was "load master" qualified, but Camp Samae San had no aircraft or runway; they were all at Utapao, a few klicks down the road.

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## nkped

There was some number of Army with the joint HQ at Nakhon Phanom in 74-75.  Probably 50 or less although the deputy commander of the HQ was an Army 2 star.  God knows why I remember that.

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## pseudolus

Watching that video of the old Thailand hookers, I am convinced that one of them (3.44) lives in my village. Old miserable cow and shouts at any farangs who dare to walk past her house. I will print it out and ask her assuming she does not throw bleach in my face for daring to speak to her. Just the type to have been used and abused in her youth and holding the grudge well into her 70's.

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## Keech

> There was some number of Army with the joint HQ at Nakhon Phanom in 74-75. Probably 50 or less although the deputy commander of the HQ was an Army 2 star. God knows why I remember that.


NKPed is correct about Army troops stationed at NKP. I was with the 56th Security Police Squadron, part of the 56th Special Operations Wing, there in 73-74 and met some army folks while there. NKP was a major player in Rescue, recon and the United States Support Activities Group. (seek & peek stuff) On occassion some army types and some plan clothes folks, along with a few indiginous troops would need to cross the blue line into Laos & beyond for intel reasons. 
The base is basically non existant now and the small town of NKP has changed a great deal since I was there.

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## chassamui

What a brilliant thread and thanks for digging it up. I left school in 69/70 and grew up with daily news bulletins about the war in Vietnam.
Never realise how widespread the support and R&R services were until I came here about 4 years ago.
Amazing stories Borey and chums.  I 'get it' now since I did a few years in the British army and spent some times with your modern day colleagues.
History is only important if it is recorded by people who were actually there. Thank you.

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## Rural Surin

> History is only important if it is recorded by people who were actually there.


Though, perspectives and interpretations might vary as it applies to historic content/historiography.

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## chassamui

> Though, perspectives and interpretations might vary as it applies to historic content/historiography.


You could have said; some people view things differently.
Usually this is not important. In this case your pseudo intellectualism is detracting from an excellent thread.
Kindly desist from further comment unless it adds value to the discussion. Thank you.

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## Rural Surin

Semper Fi! Chaz. :Smile:

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## ltnt

> Semper Fi! Chaz.


Well RS, life in the boy scouts couldn't have been all that different from regular military life could it?

Humorously, we often referred to ourselves as "chimps."  You would receive commands to drop and give them push ups, climb ropes, clean toilets, peel potatoes, scrub your clothes, clean the C.O.'s jeep, dig holes and then fill them in...  

When we lined up for our meals we had to recite the regulations for posting guard.  If you made an error you did more push ups and until you performed properly with approval from the D.I., then you were permitted  to eat. 

Seems like yesterday when I was a paid performer in my countries service.  $73 a month paid for your services as a private no class.  You struck it rich when you were finally sent overseas.  In addition to your regular monthly pay you received a bonus of $12 overseas pay, and $65 combat pay.  All you had to do to get it was go to Vietnam. Where you still retained the "chimp," performing act, but it had more value to it.

Yes, camping out for 12 months with pay, food and weather you just couldn't beat.  I personally lived in a 20 man tent in base camp, slept when there on a canvas cot, (luxury suite), drank hot Black Label beer when it was available, smoked Lucky Strikes at .10 cents a pack, took hot showers using Immersible heaters, shit blood for 15 months due to variations of micro bacteria found everywhere and poor daily diets of shit and more shit.  Piss tubes and common toilets train one not to be shy.

Yup, life was fun in those days.  Fond memories indeed.  So good that 45 years later I can almost feel the mid day sun on my soaking sweating body humping along on yet another day trek into surrounding flora and fauna of SEA looking for adventure...and serving Uncle Sam.

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## superman

> smoked Lucky Strikes at .10 cents a pack


When I worked with US forces we always ate their rations which contained packs of 'Lucky Strike' and I always assumed yanks got cigarettes free?

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## ltnt

> When I worked with US forces we always ate their rations which contained packs of 'Lucky Strike' and I always assumed yanks got cigarettes free?


Those 4 per pack contained in "C" rations were from WWII.  Pretty harsh, but when in need did the deed.

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## chassamui

I once traded an old NBC training suit for Italian field rations on exercise. It included wine and cigarettes. The wine was enough to make you go AWOL.

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## superman

> Those 4 per pack contained in "C" rations were from WWII.


I'm not that old. I'm talking 1970-72 on the training areas Luneburg Heath and Hohenfels, Germany.

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## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Rural Surin
> 
> Semper Fi! Chaz.
> 
> 
> Well RS, life in the boy scouts couldn't have been all that different from regular military life could it?
> 
> Humorously, we often referred to ourselves as "chimps." You would receive commands to drop and give them push ups, climb ropes, clean toilets, peel potatoes, scrub your clothes, clean the C.O.'s jeep, dig holes and then fill them in... 
> 
> ...


How romantic....

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## Keech

...and then if your really lucky, years later you can enjoy the wonderful effects of "defoliant exposure" as an added benefit.

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## ltnt

> I'm not that old. I'm talking 1970-72 on the training areas Luneburg Heath and Hohenfels, Germany.


Perhaps in the European theater of the US Army they got the newer versions of "C' rations?  We used to drive by "mountains of cases of "C" rations in storage yards.  I truly believe that much of it went to the V.C. or sold on the black markets in Saigon or elsewhere.  My era was 66-67.



> How romantic....


Yes, very much so.  Had a case of prostrate swelling once.  The brigade doctor gave me a three day pass to go to the local village to immerse myself in the pleasures of the Vietnamese whores to reduce the swelling.  Something I found quite abnormal as prescriptions go.  It worked however.




> ...and then if your really lucky, years later you can enjoy the wonderful effects of "defoliant exposure" as an added benefit.


Only defoliant I saw was from the air.  What worried me most was the amount of giant creators in the landscape below.  After close encounter with a B-52 drop zone I have a high regard for things that drop from the sky.

Must be "fish or shrimp," farms now?

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## fresh

A late reply, but was reading around on TD and came on this wonderful post. Only want to mention that maybe for some of you guys it's interesting to know that over here in Kanchanaburi, at the military district, is a war memorial and museum with some nice original aircrafts used those days, the memorial is dedicated to the thai soldiers.

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## thaipilot

> I am really hoping some other old vet would pick up the thread and run with it.  I may have to dig out some more photos tomorrow to add to this.


Hello Borey,

I'm wondering if there are any alumni of Ramasun station and Udon airbase and am wondering if you worked there during the Vietnam war? If so, are you still around the area and are willing to meet up? I will be in Udon from the 1st of June until the 5th. Sorry for the short notice. I will not be checking these forums and signed up specifically to get in contact with you so please email your reply to benja_henderson @ hotmail.com or call me at 0945560307 (Thai number). Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Ben Henderson

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## ron2mutt

Rescue mission of Roger Locher involving the Army, USAF, etc. & Udorn is one matter that is  apparently now somewhat declassified as Brig. Gen. Ritchie  discussed it on a Youtube video here:

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## Amina

Ron2mutt,
I just stumbled across your BG Ritchie's rescue story. Thanks for sharing it. I found it to be very interesting, and I appreciate you sharing it with this group.
BTW - My husband is also retired USAF, who served with the 4 TFW & 355 TFW (F-105s) at Takhli RTAFB, in Nakhonsawan province, from 1965/66/67. I made sure he saw this U-Tube video as well, and I can report it made him very proud to hear BG Ritchie's story, and the efforts our country went through to get Roger Locher back from NVN.
Merry Christmas to all you expats in Thailand.
Amina Christoph  :Smile: 




> Rescue mission of Roger Locher involving the Army, USAF, etc. & Udorn is one matter that is  apparently now somewhat declassified as Brig. Gen. Ritchie  discussed it on a Youtube video here:

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## Black Heart

> If we know anything today, Thailand [or the high elite and govt sectors] made quite a bundle as America's pimping-out process and underwriting took place from 1955 through 1975. Naturally, the hundreds of millions of dollars were welcome and changed the social landscape in those years as it had never been before [in comparative time measurements].


True, and there is a decent amount of information on this in the latest biography of Jim Thompson.

I read it but forgot the name.

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## cambtek

Great thread this.Just a bit of sad reality from me. My Thai wife was raped by Thai soldiers when walking home from school near Korat. She must have been about 15. Later her mother sold her to a black American with whom she had a baby. The baby boy was taken away as soon as he was born and she assumed that he was disposed of, as he was black.
This is a reminder of the reality for some Thais of the military occupation.

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