#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thai Visas and Visa Runs >  >  New rules?

## Dragonfly94

Did extension today, last year saw the same woman officer and sat at the same desks with the same info. Then it was in and out in under 20 mins, re entry permit as well. Things have moved on a bit this year, but they did start to ask for photo copies for a 90 day report a few months ago though.

Today first hurdle was all have to re register their address with proof. Did this 2 years ago providing blue book mrs ID etc etc, last year they gave me a certificate of residence which I had, and I only did a 90 day report 3 weeks ago, all at the present address- not good enough! Another form to add to the mountain of paper work at the bottom of the stairs (where does it end up?) more photo copies and yet another useless receipt. The usual nosy questions, do you speak Thai, how long you stay Thailand, why you stay here and what does your wife do.

Back downstairs officer not happy going through every stamp and page in the passport- needs every page photo copying from outside at 3 baht a go. Ok done that after lining up behind khon Mayamar, er 'book bank' no good have yesterday date, never a problem any other year, send mrs off to bank to deposit 100 baht. Bank letter have date two days ago, that's normal these days as they will not give the day you go in date unless late in the afternoon. The 'rules' say letter must not be more than one week old, but they hate having the rules quoted to them.

Whew one and a half hours this year of pissing about. Decide on the re entry permit as that can't have changed- but it has. Have to go in the back room past another mountain of paperwork to have all my details entered on a data base, er which they then print out, and also have 2 cam pics taken, no explanation of course.

To be fair the staff all looked glum and it can't be much fun for them all these new rules, if that's what they are. If you are off for an extension soon, better beware. What next year 4k charge and DNA samples? At least they still have last year Christmas decorations up, or is it this years up early?

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## Norton

Where did you do this dragonfly?

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## Dragonfly94

samut prakan, normally laid back and no problems, today seemed like crack down time.

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## Bogon

^ My neck of the woods. The only saving grace about the place is that they now have the dedicated 90 day report room upstairs.

Usually in and out in 5 mins.

It used to be a joy (in the loosest possible sense) going down there until they started to tighten the screw about a year or so back.

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## Dragonfly94

Yeah to bloke upstairs is OK, don't mind having a chat with him. Worst ever was a woman who I saw there for first extension years ago. Tried her best to find a fault, then said too early come back in two weeks (not early). As leaving she said they did not really do extensions there and go to Suan Phlu! When I asked why they have a sign about extensions, why they have the forms and why she did not mention it before she went ape, told my mrs she did not know how she could live with somebody too stupid to understand the rules. In a couple of weeks we moved anyway into Bkk.

In any normal country of course she should have been in trouble for refusing to do her job. Found out later she was a notorious falang hater and was probably looking for a bribe, not from me I would rather pack up and go home than pay bribes.

On a side note they are planning a cable car across the river there, even the mrs said no way would she be going up in that, boat 3.5 baht every 5 mins anyway. The Samut Prakan vanity tower is making slow progress.

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## Norton

> samut prakan


Sounds the shits of a place. I'll be sure to avoid it.

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## Dragonfly94

Samut Prakan does have it's merits such as their replica of Big ben and the airport!

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## kingwilly

> Ok done that after lining up behind khon Mayamar,


Ouch, that must have really hurt, having to queue behind a Burmese. Didnt they realise that you are farang, didnt they notice you are special ?

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## toddaniels

I thought Samut Prakan recently went thru a "shake up" of top brass for something or other? 

For a long time they were near the top of the short list as far as the most un-user friendly immigrations offices in the country! 

If you're to believe "mega-blogger" Richard Barrow that office is running like a well oiled machine. 

Chaengwattana in Bangkok has needed the bank book updated showing the balance on the date you're applying for the extension for a long time, so that's nothing new.. 

What was that "register your address" form? Was it this TM.30?
NOTIFICATION FROM FOR HOUSE-MASTER WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED 

At least in Bangkok the Cambodians, Laotians and Burmese have their own immigrations offices.

You should have worn this shirt;

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## Dragonfly94

I did notice they were not wearing uniforms, just T shirts with a immi badge. The boss at the back was a bit subdued. He used to bark out orders and the officers often ignored him anyway. No not TM30 a form with no number, when last arrived, card number address, who else lives there, house book, all the stuff they had 2x before. I only mentioned the Burmese as often there are loads there, far more than falang.

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## toddaniels

This is NOT on topic about the O/P and the changes they experienced BUT perhaps you people will find it marginally interesting never the less (or not)..

I was at Thai Immigrations out at Chaengwattana last week with an acquaintance and eavesdropping like I do at the various areas.. 

There were two foreigners in the queue right ahead of us who were getting yearly extensions of stay based on being over 50 (retirement).. BOTH of them got denied and kicked back for not having their lease agreement with them.. Now this happened despite the fact these people already had the receipt of alien in residence (TM.30) AND their receipt of 90 day reporting in their passports, plus neither was applying for their first year's extension, they'd had several already.

It totally freaked me out because the person I was with didn't have his lease/rental contract either.. However, we weren't even asked for it. 

Now in the immigrations officers defense, those two guys were pretty confrontational with the officer when they were tryin' to get their extensions. In fact they were so loud I had no problem hearin' them argue with the officer.. It could have been a typical thai โชว์เพาว์ (show power) "I can make you hoop jump because I wear a uniform" sort of muscle flex because those guys were acting like self-entitled fuck-tards, I dunno.

Just wanted to pass it along, you know what they say "foreskinned is forearmed"  :Confused: or something like that. . . :rofl:

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## Seekingasylum

I'm surprised the officer got away that stunt. Production of a lease agreement is not in any of the requirements in order to qualify for a retirement extension as set out in the various police orders nor is it published in any immigration website. They should have summoned the captain and refused to leave.

Rubbing these guys up the wrong way is obviously not something to aim for but that doesn't mean they have carte blanche to enact some punishment for not showing the right amount of humility in the presence of them.

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## Norton

> Now in the immigrations officers defense, those two guys were pretty confrontational with the officer when they were tryin' to get their extensions.


Chicken egg thing. If they were confrontatioal before asked for the lease then they got what would be expected under the fine print rule. "These docs are required or others as the officer may require."

Assuming they didn't get the extension reckon they should get a lawyer.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Topper

> BOTH of them got denied and kicked back for not having their lease agreement with them.


I'm guessing it was the "L" queue with Aoijoy as the boss.  She's not only asked that of me, but also insisted on having the originals, meaning the next time I apply, I'll need to get another set off the landlord.

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## thailazer

That bank letter should have been good, as the regs state within the last 7 days.   Problem is every official in this country seems to change requirements and make things up as they go.

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## toddaniels

CSFFan; dunno who "Aoijoy" is.. The gurls who run that section have 3 stripes on their uniforms and their ranks are all ร.ต.อ - ร้อยตำรวจเอก. The one who's been there the longest has a first name of Kanokrak (กนกรักษ์)


Those guys NEVER got to the gurls who sign off on extensions once they're issued (who sit in the back corners), they were ambushed by the rank-n-file paper pushers at the 'regular desks; where we turn in our paperwork and get our pic taken. Seeing as I was out at Immigrations most of the day, I did see one of the guys come back with his lease AND get his extension of stay too. But he was NOT a happy camper...  

Believe me I *HATE with a passion* the free reign immigrations officers have in the offices scattered around the kingdom in making us hoop jump just because they can. It is easily the top 'o the list as far as pet peeves here dealing with thai officialdom..

In only slightly related news;
A new law comes into effect starting July 17th. It's called the Thai licensing facilitation act. In essence it covers every government office which issues licenses, (called ใบอนุญาต) or a stamps of permission (called ตราอนุญาต). 

The government offices have to have a book made up outlining the steps, the documents, the procedure etc that people seeking permission (ผู้ขออนุญาต) can see. IF a person applying does not meet the criteria they have to be issued a written denial stating what was wrong, how to correct it etc. It also says, every office of theirs country-wide has to do it the same way and they cannot ask for any additional documents NOT already outlined in the manual they have to make up. There is also a defined appeals process where a person who is denied but feels they shouldn't have been can follow. 

In regards to immigrations it'd hafta be a step by step process of visa extensions, and what documents are required for each extension how long an official document is valid (bank letter, embassy letter, notary etc), what copies are needed. 

When I took the thai version out to immigrations the other week and showed it to the "gang" upstairs, at first they said it didn't cover them. This made me ask if they were ข้าราชการ (government/civil servants)? Then I asked them if every year to get another extension of stay did I ขออนุญาต? Then I asked fter that did they give me a ตราอนุญาต?  They hemmed and hawed, but finally admitted the new law "might" cover them too. It rattled their cage so much that they copied the thai version of the law I'd printed off the Royal Gazette's website..  

It would appear offices have 6 months to come into compliance with this once it starts. However, I tried to sell Immigrations on the fact if they manned up did it, and made the requirements universal no matter if I'm in Hat Yai or Chaing Rai, they'd be heroes insteada zeroes.. <- Dunno if they bought into that one..

In hindsight this could be a double edged sword. They might decide to adopt the documents needed in of those b/s immigration fiefdoms which try to nickel/dime foreigners to death with required documents.. 

Dunno, but it's something to consider.. So, if in the next 6-8 months you see the required documents for extensions of stay suddenly become exponentially larger, you can blame me. Sorry about that...

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## Seekingasylum

Hell will freeze over before each office operates the published rules according to a national standard.

They simply haven't the intelligence, ability or integrity and even if they wanted to implement a national operating plan they couldn't organise it.

There are very good reasons why Thailand is such a mess.

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## taxexile

They make up the rules as they go along.

When they make surprise requests asking for extra documentation it usually means they are fishing for extra fees in order to circumvent those requests and it is up to the applicant to either offer those fees or bite their tongue and meet with the new demands.

Last year my wife was helping a Norwegian couple extend/change/re-instate their retirement visa after they had mistakenly left the country without obtaining a re entry permit, the immigration officer wanted a ton of paperwork that would have necessitated this elderly couple, one of whom was in a wheelchair after breaking a leg on their trip, travelling to Bangkok from Hua Hin to verify and translate passports and bank accounts and residence.

He suggested that by paying a facilitation fee this journey and all of the extra paperwork could be avoided. The fee was 15,000b per passport.

When my wife asked why it was so much, the officer told her in all seriousness that thanks to the coup and the army takeover, new rules of procedure had been introduced and opportunities for "extra fees" were harder to justify would probably not exist at all in the near future and therefore they had to make hay whilst the sun was still shining. 

Depending on the mood of the officer, they can always find or make up some error or discrepancy in ones paperwork and will fish for money to overlook it. 

Most immigration offices will have intermediaries sitting outside at desks, Im not sure if they are civil servants or not, but they can be very useful go betweens and for small fees most problems can be solved, often without the applicant even having to step inside the office and talking to the immigration officer.

This is Thailand, and the nature of the system is that it is there to be worked. Involving lawyers, throwing tantrums, quoting the law and demanding to see the boss can often just make the situation worse.

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## Seekingasylum

Hua Hin has a history of this chicanery and their boss is an idiot. However, they are not immune to the consequences of their thievery. 

If I were subjected to the extortion meted out to The Norwegians I would have asked to see the ranking officer and politely requested that the officer repeat his demands in from of him. If he were to confirm that the practice was official policy I would then politely explain that I would be contacting Bangkok for assurances that this was indeed national policy and condoned by the government. Given the nexus that still exists between the Immigration police and Thaivisa, I would also explain that such a policy should be given prominence and I would ensure they got the publicity they deserved. Names of the officers concerned and the commanding General would of course be given.

Thai are lazy and do not like fuss, especially if the outcome may be in doubt. Most times they'll give up their little scams when they know it isn't going to happen without a fight.

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## taxexile

> If I were subjected to the extortion meted out to The Norwegians I would have asked to see the ranking officer and politely requested that the officer repeat his demands in from of him. If he were to confirm that the practice was official policy I would then politely explain that I would be contacting Bangkok for assurances that this was indeed national policy and condoned by the government. Given the nexus that still exists between the Immigration police and Thaivisa, I would also explain that such a policy should be given prominence and I would ensure they got the publicity they deserved. Names of the officers concerned and the commanding General would of course be given.


I think Monty Python once did a sketch like that.

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## baldrick

^ the sausage would have been caressed , before ,during and after the typing of the post




> they copied the thai version of the law I'd printed off the Royal Gazette's website..


did you charge them 3 baht ?

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## toddaniels

taxexile; that is a total crock of shite and I'da called the 1111 government hotline while I was sittin' in front of that officer! 

In hindsight: unless I'm mistaken foreigners can't go from a 30 day visa exempt stamp to a single entry 90 day Non-O and then to a yearly extension based on being over 50 in Hua Hin anymore. Christ, even Chiang Mai and Jomtien can't do it, it's gotta be done in Bangkok..

Even here IN Bangkok it's NOT the apply and get it issued on the spot thing it once was. You need 14 days left on either your visa exempt entry or your tourist visa. You apply for a Non-O 90 day single entry based on what ever reason you're using to get a year extension for. It goes under review for 2 weeks (hence the need for 14 days permission to stay remaining), then you go back and they stamp a 90 day Non-O visa, the word USED and a new permission to stay stamp into your passport. Two months later you go back and apply for the year at what every immigrations office serves where you live.. 

And before the nay-sayers slither out from under their rocks and say it can't be done.. Here's a Non-O visa issued at Chaengwattana and the new 90 day permission to stay until stamp..

If you notice (or not) this one was for ใช้ชีวิตบั้นปลาย <- live out the end of your life for being over 50 y/o. Called "retirement" by every tom, dick & somchai..

Like I said, it's total bullshit that they try it and even worse that foreigners let them get away with it. . .

And now for something completely different.. 

I made this shirt up and in breaking from my tradition of wearing a KISS t-shirt every day wore it to immigrations last week;

It uses Prayuth's thai nickname บิ๊กตู่ and says "Big Do says stop corruption". Got a LOT of comments, and sidelong glances from the thais in uniform and the rank-n-file ones too. 

Comin' home a thai guy on my Soi wanted it, so I gave it to him.. Lemme know if you want one, lol...

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## taxexile

todd danielz




> unless I'm mistaken foreigners can't go from a 30 day visa exempt stamp to a single entry 90 day Non-O and then to a yearly extension based on being over 50 in Hua Hin anymore. Christ, even Chiang Mai and Jomtien can't do it, it's gotta be done in Bangkok..


thats what they told the norwegian couple, you have got to go to bangkok immigration, but we can do it here for a consideration of 15000b, which is what they did. 

it was done in one day, 30 day visa exempt tourist to 12 month stay based on retirement. no bank deposit /proof of income statements, no other documentation, they used the figures from the previous years application that they had on their records i guess.


we received a phone call from immig. the next day and went to pick up the passports. i was impressed.

the 15000 they paid was less than the cost of the two or three day trip to bangkok with all the associated hotel costs, food costs, taxi fares, visa fees,document translation and verification fees, getting a new set of income verification documents from norway and the general disruption to the lives to two elderly people, one in a wheelchair. 

they would have been stupid not to have taken the offer.

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## taxexile

i want one !

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## toddaniels

Really, that shirt got mixed reviews from the thais..

Some thought it was good, really good, especially the rank-n-file thais who face some sort of corruption/extortion in one form or another almost every day doin' stuff.

Most of the immigration workers were on the fence about it, but some were really down right confrontational. Asking what business was it of mine and why I cared? When I said, "You know good and well that corruption's not fair, it's against the law AND Prayuth said to stop it too", they let it go. They sure weren't lining up to get a shirt from me though.

Maybe if I screened a couple stripes on the shoulders like rank insignias, added set of jump wings, plus wore a piece of red of string looped around my arm it'd help ease them into accepting the message.

BTW: just what the fcuk is it with immigrations, and in fact almost every police officer I know, wearin' a pin with jump wings? Is it like "extra credit" or just another piece of crap to wear on their uniform so they seem important?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Totally off topic: I'm just getting a dark blue t-shirt made up now with the wording on the shirts that the prisoners on work release wear here in Bangkok. Those are the guys you see cleaning out the sewers with those thick ropes where they pull the bucket thru the pipes from man-hole to man-hole.. I thought it'd be good for a laugh on the next trip to immigrations..  Or possibly not..   :Smile:

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## ltnt

> wearin' a pin with jump wings? Is it like "extra credit"


Some wear "Combat Infantry," badges as well.  What combat that might have been is surely imagined.

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## Frawley

Having to do this one year extension of non-immigrant O soon (based upon marriage...no WP involved). O-Visa is one year multi-entry good for another 7mos.  Have all of the documentation understood but don't see a specific form mentioned at the Thai Immigration FAQ. Is there one or is it just an issue of providing the evidence along with the passport/visa? Lovely but somewhat confusing place, Thailand. Thanks for any help.  - Frawley

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## Stretchy

Extension of stay form?

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## toddaniels

> Having to do this one year extension of non-immigrant O soon (based upon marriage...no WP involved). O-Visa is one year multi-entry good for another 7mos.  Have all of the documentation understood but don't see a specific form mentioned at the Thai Immigration FAQ. Is there one or is it just an issue of providing the evidence along with the passport/visa? Lovely but somewhat confusing place, Thailand. Thanks for any help.  - Frawley


Forgive me for being thick, but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, BUT;

If you have a multi entry Non-Immigrant Type-O visa good for another 7 months what's the rush to apply for a year's extension of stay anytime soon?  :Smile: 

With the visa you have you just "run-4-the-border" and you receive another 90 day permission to stay until stamp. Plus with that visa IF you run-4-the-border just before the visa itself expires (written on the visa as "must be used by" or "must enter by" date) you'd get another 90 days. Most people with that visa get almost 15 months in country by doing so.

There's no up-side to getting a yearly extension of stay based on marriage now because you've still got so much time left on the visa you have. I wouldn't apply for it until you have about 60 days left on your very last permission to stay until stamp that you can wring outta that visa..  

For the yearly extension based on marriage to a thai national; are you going to used 400K baht banked in thai bank in an account in your own name, or are you going to use a notarized letter from your embassy stating you have 40Kbaht a month income from your country?  If you're going the banked money the 400K baht has to have been in there 60 days BEFORE you apply.

Fill out form TM.7 from this website; Thai Immigrations  The link to their forms is on the left

in BANGKOK you'll need the following:Letter from the embassy stating you have the required monthly income  (40K baht) from your countryORa letter from your thai bank stating you have 400K baht in the accountYou'll need copies of;every page of the thai bank book (if you're going the banked money route)the Kor Ror2 & 3 (thai marriage certificates),your wife's thai i/d cardher house bookthe picture (information) page of your passportthe page with the Non-O visathe page with the current permission to stay until stampthe TM6 departure carda google map or hand drawn map to your house from immigrationsYou'd also need a couple pictures of the thai wedding ceremony, you and your wife standing in front of your house address numbers, pictures of you two sitting around the living-room or some other area of the house.

You turn that pile 'o stuff in pay 1900baht and it goes under consideration for 30 days.. Now in reality during that 30 days Immigrations is supposed to come to your house and see that you're really married. 

Here in Bangkok I only know of one person that ever happened to.  After the 30 days is up you go back to Immigrations and they stamp you in with a year's extension of stay.

After that you'd need to buy a re-entry permit if you're gonna leave the country or you'd lose the extension when you left. Re-entry permits are 1000baht for a single and 3800baht for a multiple.

Believe me it reads like a far more complicated procedure than it is in reality..

Good Luck.

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## Dragonfly94

You have some balls mr Todd, don't think i'd fancy wearing one about town. Immigration seems less corrupt, but harder to get things done, they blame the govt of course. I took the above but they wanted every passport page and re register of address, told me the residency cert they gave me last year was only valid for two months, I think they made that up

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## toddaniels

^
I don't know that I'm any more ballsy than anyone else.. 

I mean after all, Prayuth DID say to stop corruption. What's wrong with reminding people about it? Now the fact that I'm a white guy wearin' a t-shirt in thai seems to rub a specific demographic of thais the wrong way. 

It would appear those who are participating in the "let's wring money out of people" take the message the worst. 

I almost was going to try to translate the phrase "Don't hate the messenger, hate the message if you want." But I couldn't get it to read in a pithy succinct, snarky enough way in thai. It kept comin' out too clunky to be snarky..

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## Dragonfly94

I wish there were more people with your attitude than the idiots who think it's clever just to slide baht across the table when the slightest ploblum is brought up.

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## YOrlov

> todd danielz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				unless I'm mistaken foreigners can't go from a 30 day visa exempt stamp to a single entry 90 day Non-O and then to a yearly extension based on being over 50 in Hua Hin anymore. Christ, even Chiang Mai and Jomtien can't do it, it's gotta be done in Bangkok..
> 			
> ...


_
   The fee was 15,000b per passport._


  Per passport is 30,000 baht.  Damn good payday  for the officer

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## toddaniels

You're right taxexile, it would have been stupid for them to make two trips to bangkok to get the Non-O and then get the year back down where they live.. 

Still, this whole mix up came about because they didn't know they needed a re-entry permit to keep their extension of stay alive.  So despite their advanced age (which cuts NO ice with me), this was a problem of their own making.

Yeah, that was a damned good pay day for that officer!!
Seeing as the "hard costs" associated with getting a 90 day Non-O, applying for a yearly extension and then applying for a multiple re-entry permit;
Single Entry 90 day Non-O = 2000baht
yearly extension of stay = 1900baht
multiple re-entry permit = 3800baht
TOTAL = 7700baht

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## taxexile

> Still, this whole mix up came about because they didn't know they needed a re-entry permit to keep their extension of stay alive. So despite their advanced age (which cuts NO ice with me), this was a problem of their own making.


yes, it was a problem of their own making and they realised that.

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## toddaniels

The sad thing is, IF I ran into the same situation as that couple, I'da probably ponied up the money too.

What I find sad (for foreigners here) is; the reason those satellite offices can't issue Non-O's anymore is because of the rampant abuse those offices have doing back-door, under-the-table, "nudge-nudge, know-what-I-mean, say-no-more" visas & extensions.


REMEMBER: "A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat"

OFF TOPIC: Why does the video show when I preview the post and revert to a link when I post it? Am I just stupid? <-that is a rhetorical question..

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## Norton

> Couldn't they just make the visa deal simpler


They could and should but they won't. More money to be made by keeping it complcated.

My thoughts:




> regular reporting


Need only be done when address changes.




> retirement visa - O-A - annual extensions


Folks "living out their life" in Thailand should only need to extend every 5 years or so.




> almost impossible to get PR & citizenship - why?


Xenophobia but many other countries make it difficult.

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## toddaniels

Well, Slip, you appear to be sadly misinformed on some of your info..

As has been pointed out the entire process is a middle management personnel heavy license to print money!

*Re-entry permits* - If they were free, they'd have to jack the price of extensions of stays up to cover the shortfall. Also raising the extension fees would piss off a LOT of the people who don't leave the country and thereby don't need a re-entry permit.

*90 Day Reporting* - is free! Now that it can be done online and as more and more bugs are being worked out of the program it will only get better.

*P/R-Citizenship* - contrary to your "almost impossible to get" assumption those two things are NOT fraught with peril nor almost impossible to get. True you meet the requirements for it or you don't, and at present IF you're over 50, not working legally, paying into the thai taxation system and filing income tax here, you can't do it. 

But, by the same token I know a TON of people here who hold P/R and more than a few who hold thai citizenship. I know some who went straight to thai citizenship based on working here and being married to a thai who never held P/R status.. Plus, once they take your application under consideration for P/R you get free extensions of stay until it's approved.

*Many types of visas* <- which I take you mean "extensions". 

Most foreigners here fall into one of these categories; over 50, married to a thai, supporting thai/foreign children, supporting a foreign child in school here, business, volunteer or education..(so that's 7). It's NOT all that many categories and the reason they're split apart is each have their own financial criteria, documentation, etc for getting an extension of stay.

*Extensions of stay* - well the way the rules are written right now, unless I'm mistaken you can't get an extension of stay for longer than a year at a time.

There was talk amongst the big-wigz that they were gonna 're-vamp' the entire system from the ground up. They were going to account for younger affluent people who want to stay here but don't fit into one of the current categories. They were going to make the financial threshold much higher for them but give them extensions a year at a time thereby stopping the rampant "I live here on tourist visas" abuse. 

They were also going to make it easier for people married to thais, supporting children and being over 50. There was talk of an extension which last 1 year the first time, after that 3 years and then after that 5 years. They'd automatically come with multiple re-entry permits. Unless you moved you never had to do a 90 day report and if you did move you just had to report the change of address. It was also going to come with some mythical foreign i/d card with all your info on it to show you're legally here.. The price point they were talking about was between 20-25K baht per person per extension.   

As far as I know NOTHING came about from any of those bright ideas put forward. It was just pie-in-the-sky pipe dreams from what I can tell. 

So lemme ask you straight up.. Would you pay 25K baht for the first yearly extension of stay *IF* it had a multi re-entry permit, *IF* you didn't have to do 90 day reports unless you moved and *IF* the subsequent yearly extension you applied for would be good for 3 years*?* 

When I first heard the gossip about this a while ago, most of the foreigners I polled thought it was way too high..

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## toddaniels

Slip I hate to be the bearer of bad news but; 

IF indeed you've been here 10 years; unless you've been winging your way back to where ever you came from each year, coughing up 200USD and buying another Non-Immigrant Multi-Entry Type-OA (Long Stay) visa at a thai embassy, all you've been doin' is getting *yearly extensions of stay* inside the country on the first visa you started getting your extensions on. A visa which BTW would have expired LONG ago. 

Correct terminology is everything!! It is impossible to get a Non-Immigrant Type-OA Visa inside thailand, period, full stop, end of story.. Good try though :Smile: 

Also, while only marginally of interest; despite the fact that immigrations at most places here in the country stamp the engrish word "retirement" on the yearly extension of stay in your passport, you're NOT getting that extension because you're retarded, err retired. You're getting it because you're over 50 and meet the financials. The category of that extension is called called ใช้ชีวิตบั้นปลาย <- use the end of your life..

There is an interesting P/R case I'm following right now.. A guy has been here 10+ years ALWAYS on "use the end of your life" over 50 extensions.. He's also married to a thai.  He is in the process of having a law firm file amended tax returns where he pays the required tax (in arrears) on the earnings he'd have needed all those years to qualify for P/R. He's going to pay the penalties for failure to file tax and then apply for P/R.. 

Personally, in all the research I did on it I couldn't find a single example of someone doing this. However by the same token, I couldn't find in the regulations where it said you couldn't do this when applying for P/R. 

Time will tell..

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## toddaniels

The thing is; From my research on this, it appears the way the thai version of the rules are written it's NOT so much that you're working. It seems much more that they want you to have paid tax and filed tax returns on the minimum financial requirement for your nationality for the years leading up to you applying for P/R.

I have no problem tellin' you that honestly I dunno. 

This foreigner is dead-set sure that this law firm can do it. I have no idea how much it's costing him, only that it's been goin' on for some time and that they missed last year's cut off date for filing his application for P/R. 

Interestingly enough most countries are allotted 100 spots for P/R applicants per year by thailand. The ONLY countries which always max out are China, India, and sometimes Japan & Korea. None of the western countries EVER max out.

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## Norton

> amended tax returns where he pays the required tax (in arrears) on the earnings he'd have needed all those years to qualify for P/R. He's going to pay the penalties for failure to file tax and then apply for P/R


I know things change but don't recall taxes coming into the equation in the past.

Short version. Was 3 years (extension to stay) on long stay visa to apply for PR. Then 10 years on PR to apply for citizenship.

Given there is little benefit to PR, unless one is hot on getting citizenship, not worth the bother.

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## chassamui

I think people need to go to an immigration office with an open mind and be prepared for the worst. That is make sure you have the correct paperwork and permissions, properly dressed, respectful like, even if you don't mean it. Smile and be polite.
If the officer you see is new, ambitious, greedy or just having a bad day you will still become a victim of a beaurocracy with endless powers to phuck you around.
Otherwise you will get lucky and have a nice day and maybe help the next one in the queue get similar treatment.
Thai rules apply.

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## toddaniels

The fee you pay when you apply for P/R I think is 3800baht and you owe the 191Kbaht (if you're single or 90Kbaht if your married to a thai) once you're approved. 

If you're working and married to a thai for 5 years you can bypass P/R and go straight for thai citizenship.

I dunno because it hasn't been anything I was interested in doing..

Chassamui; do you read what you write before you post it? 




> Dress properly, respectful like, smile and be polite..


Christ I'd bite out my own veins before I did ANY of that kinda kowtowing to some paper-pushing thai government worker in a too tight uniform!  

KISS t-shirt, KISS ball-cap, Levi jeans, loud, borderline rude, impolite, never wai'd and still time after time I get shit done out there. I am NOT bragging, I'm saying me not doing any of what you said never got in the way with me dealing with those people at immigrations.

Stop being one of those sheep-like, sock-puppet, wanna-b-thai, foreign suck ups here and grow a pair ferchristsakes.

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## chassamui

It works just fine for me Todd, but then I'm not the shepherd that you are.

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## Bogon

> Stop being one of those sheep-like, sock-puppet, wanna-b-thai, foreign suck ups here and grow a pair ferchristsakes.





> The sad thing is, IF I ran into the same situation as that couple, I'da probably ponied up the money too.


Mmmm...contradiction.

Either you pay under the table or not. It's very black and white.

I've always said that you are one of the good guys Todz, but sometimes you come across as a plastic Andrew Biggs.

On a side note. I do not have a Work Permit and have had 3 (three) 1 year extensions in a row without holding an ED visa or showing 400K baht in the bank for a Non "o" marriage extension of stay. I know of only 1 person that has gone the same route and am surprised not more people are doing it.

If Tod is as good as he says he is, then he will report how it is done (100% legal, on your own, without any backdoors).

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## Bogon

^ I meant to say. How do I get P/R or residence without working and paying tax, but have 3 years of extensions?

Reread my post this morning, and it seems a bit nasty towards Todz. Apologies.

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## Norton

> How do I get P/R or residence without working and paying tax, but have 3 years of extensions?


As I said the paying taxes and working is a new one for me. I was told by immigration a few years back I was eligible and I never worked or paid taxes after I retired. If still the case, you should be eligible. Go to immigration and ask.

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## Happy As Larry

> Go to immigration and ask


Best advice.

I too always thought that x number of consecutive tax returns was a requirement of pr but that will not be the first or the last time I have been wrong.

Personally I would not advise going to a lawyer. 
I recently asked a well advertised one a specific question regarding my personal situation which I thought was relatively straightforward but not common. After receiving the information their response was 'we can't help you with that but here is a reference number should you wish any further information from us'
I won't be appearing in their ads.

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## toddaniels

There is a good if mind numbingly long thread on T/V in the Thai visas, residency and work permits sub-forum called; "Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process".

It is chock full of good information. 

Be warned you're gonna hafta wade thru the b/s crap, back-biting and naysayers to get the info, but I've not found anything as comprehensive googling around about it.. 

Honestly, I ain't all that "up" on the P/R process, the criteria etc.  

And now for something completely different;
I just had TWO - 90 day online reports go thru to "Pending" status!

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## Norton

> I just had TWO - 90 day online reports go thru to "Pending" status!


Congrats. If at first you don't succeed..............
Or keep sucking til you do succeed.  :Smile:

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## toddaniels

> Originally Posted by toddaniels
> 
> Stop being one of those sheep-like, sock-puppet, wanna-b-thai, foreign suck ups here and grow a pair ferchristsakes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are correct, reading those two bits out of context does appear that I am contradicting myself. 

Reading the back story of those two aged foreigners; one in a wheelchair both obviously clueless as a box 'o rox about extension stuff, IF I was in their exact situation; old, infirm, crippled, not up on visa regs, I'da probably done the same thing they did. <- does that clear it up for you?

The other comment was directed toward those foreigners who tip-toe around here acting and thinking we need to kowtow, wai, and fawn over every Tom, Dick & Somchai thai official here just because they have a modicum of real or imagined control over our lives. 

Sometimes I forget who I despise more; foreigners like that or the thai officials who try to flex their muscles. Both demographics are equally bad in my books.

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## Bogon

> does that clear it up for you?


Not really to be honest. I believe my quotes are in context.

Let's agree to disagree on this one, eh?

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## toddaniels

^fair enough... I'll try to stay more "true to character". .

I don't want to be sending mixed messages and all.

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## Frawley

> Extension of stay form?


Yes, thanks, turns out that's what it is. I was a bit confused because, having so much time left on the 1yr O, I was looking at it all more as a spousal addd-on than an extension, but an extension it is!  Thank you for your help.

- Frawley

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## Frawley

> Originally Posted by Frawley
> 
> 
> Having to do this one year extension of non-immigrant O soon (based upon marriage...no WP involved). O-Visa is one year multi-entry good for another 7mos.  Have all of the documentation understood but don't see a specific form mentioned at the Thai Immigration FAQ. Is there one or is it just an issue of providing the evidence along with the passport/visa? Lovely but somewhat confusing place, Thailand. Thanks for any help.  - Frawley
> 
> 
> Forgive me for being thick, but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, BUT;
> 
> If you have a multi entry Non-Immigrant Type-O visa good for another 7 months what's the rush to apply for a year's extension of stay anytime soon? 
> ...


Missing bit of info is that we have a 2.5yr old adopted daughter in the same situation, so are as much looking to avoid needing to have her do the 90 day visa runs as much as anything.  That's all kind of a maddening situation.  Adopted at birth and Thai wife & my name are listed on the legal birth certificate as the parents but, you know...not Thai blood.  I don't want to even get imto that (as fascinating as that discussion would almost certainly be).

Great list of requirements from you. Been here since January and have had the B$400K+ transferred into the bank from a foreign account, under my name only, since April.  Good on that score.  So getting direction and confirmation on all of this is marvelous.  Really want to get this done in one shot, especially since the daughter has to jump through the same hoops.

Exceedingly helpful.  I appreciate your thorough response and the time you placed into this.  Beer on me (except it has to be one of those early happy hours since I have to pick the daughter up at school 3pm).

Best,
- Frawley

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## toddaniels

^Unless I'm mistaken (which I could be) you might be able to "piggy back" your daughter on your extension of stay. Although it'd take me perusing the visa regs about kids and a call to your local immigrations office to see if it'd fly

Either try that or do nothing because as I mentioned in another thread "foreign children" can't be fined for overstay or penalized until they're 15 I believe. Just let her current permission to stay stamp expire.

No thanx needed, I post on here (and other forums) for one reason only.. To stop the b/s, crap, half-assed advice which litters the inter-web about visa and extensions of stay in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". 

I hate threads that start with "I just heard from my good mate in the bar", "I heard from a high placed official", "My thai wife said her friend said". In fact, to me, they read just like  "Henny-penny said, Cocky-locky said, Goosey-poosey said, Gander-lander said, Turkey-lurkey said Foxy-loxy said the sky is going to fall concerning visas/extensions of stay in thailand..  

Good Luck man

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## toddaniels

I didn't want to make a new thread about this so just stuck it here.

I am reading on several forums about a "new rule" specific to Nong Khai Immigrations.

IF a foreigner is using an embassy letter for verification of sufficient funds for an extension of stay (65K per month based on being over 50 or 40K a month based on marriage to a thai national) Nong Khai is now implementing a policy for the next extension which says foreigners will transfer in 65K baht a month into a thai bank and show proof of it.

It also says next year you're going to bring such and such a person as a witness.. I mean WTF?

This is quite the conundrum seeing as there is NOTHING written into the current Police Order which says a foreigner has to transfer even a single baht into the country to garner an extension. I've used the US Embassy letter every year for my extension of stay and in fact I don't even bank in this country! I just use my ATM card to pull money out each month.  

BTW: it's NOT an official immigrations form as it has no TM number, it's just Nong Khai form. 

I called them today, but my opening gambit of "Can you speak english?" was met with the phone being hung up and then mysteriously ringing busy for the next 30 minutes..   

That's all I got guys.. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Phuketrichard

WTF:
if they seriously consider this an it spreads around the country
Cambodia is looking more an more attractive.

Off topic a bit but
I have a Cambodian GF on a 1 year non B visa with wp.
past 3 years we have gotten her 1 year visa in Penang, Yes real a company, 5 million Baht, 5 Thai employees etc etc  she qualifies  for the exteniosn but its such a hassle here in phuket.......

drove down tuesday and SHE WAS refused the visa, not even a single entry, not even a tourist visa allowed and they almost refused her even a 14 day visa exempt at the border cause she had so many stamps in her passport ( one every 3 months) Had to see the supervisor on duty
Cambodians and Vietnamese (not to mention just about every African ) can no longer do a visa EXCEPT in their own country. This started in FEB

So now she has to fly back to Phnom Pehn from Phuket and hopefully get it there . her wp is valid till may 2016 BUT cant legally work without the non B visa.

winds of change

I really hate to say this but
God i wish Thaksin was back

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## toddaniels

I didn't know where to stick this and it seemed stupid to make a new thread... (Mods move it where you think it belongs)

Starting Sept 1st, Chaengwattana Immigrations will stop giving queue tickets out at 3:30 and will still close at 4:30 (or when they take care of every queue ticket outstanding).

They're doing this because some of those areas weren't finished serving customers until 7:30 a full 3 HOURS after Immigrations really closes!!

A friend went for his ED visa extension a week or so ago, he got there at 2PM or so and got his extension stamped into his passport at 7:45PM!!  Then he had to walk all the way to the mouth of Chaengwattana Soi 7 because the free shuttle stops and all the taxis leave that area in front of Immigrations when the government complex closes. 

Anyway, here's a pic of the announcement I took today (sorry it's blurry)

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## toddaniels

Here's a better pic of that notice at Chaengwattana about the queue time changes;

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## barrylad66

not that i ever use the place, but thanks for keep those who do in the loop :Smile:

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## Humbert

I went for my annual extension yesterday at Kap Cheong. Sharp contrast from last year. Much more red tape, copy requirements etc. and they only extended until the end of the year pending an inspection of my premises to determine that I actually live there.

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## NZdick1983

^ Yup, living under a military dictatorship led by a moronic general with no shred of empathy towards foreigners, it's bound to become more restrictive towards 'aliens'.

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## Humbert

^ I agree and boys in brown threw in a lot more strutting and posturing so we would all know that they are in charge.

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## toddaniels

NZdick1983, in some situations you'd be right with your broad-brush statement, BUT not in this one. 

Prayuth hasn't changed a single rule concerning extensions of stays inside the country. Those changes were cooked up by the head officer at each Immigration office.

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## Pragmatic

> I went for my annual extension yesterday at Kap Cheong. Sharp contrast from last year. Much more red tape, copy requirements etc. and they only extended until the end of the year pending an inspection of my premises to determine that I actually live there.


Read this thread Humbert. Let us know if it's different to your visit. 


> https://teakdoor.com/thai-visas-and-v...ome-visit.html (Home visit)

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## NZdick1983

Fair 'nuff TD. I stand corrected.

*Still think he's pushing from the top down - for stricter regulations across the board though (not just pertaining to Visas).. not only for Farang either, also for Thais too.

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## Humbert

> Originally Posted by Humbert
> 
> I went for my annual extension yesterday at Kap Cheong. Sharp contrast from last year. Much more red tape, copy requirements etc. and they only extended until the end of the year pending an inspection of my premises to determine that I actually live there.
> 
> 
> Read this thread Humbert. Let us know if it's different to your visit. 
> 
> 
> 
> https://teakdoor.com/thai-visas-and-v...ome-visit.html (Home visit)


What a f**king nightmare! I wish I had seen this thread. I guess the gist of the story is be prepared with fruit baskets, Johnny Black, and cash for diesel.

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## Humbert

> Read this thread Humbert. Let us know if it's different to your visit.


Did you end up getting your approval at the end of 30 days? Did you stick you your guns and not give them any tea money?

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## Pragmatic

> What a f**king nightmare! I wish I had seen this thread. I guess the gist of the story is be prepared with fruit baskets, Johnny Black, and cash for diesel.


No. Give them fook all. They just maybe out to make examples of farangs. You give them a gift and it could be seen as a bribe. Pats on the back for weeding out a wrong doer.




> Did you end up getting your approval at the end of 30 days? Did you stick you your guns and not give them any tea money?


I went 22 days early to get my extension. Due to them giving me a 30 day under consideration stamp dated from the expiry of my extension I'm now not due to go back to KCI until 22 November. I wanted to go earlier but my missus says I should go when the stamp expires. That is my intention.

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## Phuketrichard

point of fact<
ALWAYS go in early 
gives u time to get things together, just in case
I always do my yearly extension 3-4 weeks early

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## Pragmatic

> ALWAYS go in early gives u time to get things together, just in case I always do my yearly extension 3-4 weeks early


 But do you get the 30 day 'under consideration' stamp at your office?

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## BobR

I did my renewal in June (well after some of the unfortunate incidents in this thread) at Pattaya and had no problem whatsoever.  Nothing new, same Officer as last year, in and out without any serious frustration.  

PS Only posted this now because my non-problems post date some of the problems people had at other offices.

Stories like these make me so happy I don't own anything here I could not afford to leave behind.  This shit is frightening, a bunch of pathetic sycophants trying to out-do each other.

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## Humbert

Some guys out here on a local forum are saying that they showed up for the visit and wanted to see a medical certificate. Nuts!

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## Phuketrichard

> Originally Posted by Phuketrichard
> 
> ALWAYS go in early gives u time to get things together, just in case I always do my yearly extension 3-4 weeks early
> 
> 
>  But do you get the 30 day 'under consideration' stamp at your office?


Nope;
phuket is same day service for retirement but they do 30 days observation for marriage/Non B 1 year extension and all my married friends go in at least 3 weeks before it is due.

Gives u time,  not a bad thing

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## Pragmatic

> Some guys out here on a local forum are saying that they showed up for the visit and wanted to see a medical certificate. Nuts!


Can't say I've heard that. Some people say they imm officers stay a couple of hours and take photos of your house. They stayed no more than 30 minutes. The last 15 minutes just general chit chat and time wasting. They never entered my house. Never asked for petrol money. Quite informal really and a total bollix.

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## boloa

> Originally Posted by Humbert
> 
> Some guys out here on a local forum are saying that they showed up for the visit and wanted to see a medical certificate. Nuts!
> 
> 
> Can't say I've heard that. Some people say they imm officers stay a couple of hours and take photos of your house. They stayed no more than 30 minutes. The last 15 minutes just general chit chat and time wasting. They never entered my house. Never asked for petrol money. Quite informal really and a total bollix.


I can understand if it was a first time application ( I had to go to my local Police Station 13 years ago with my wife ,In-laws and the Village head to be interviewed before I was given my Marriage extension, so being checked out is nothing new ! ) but when you have been doing your extension there for years it just seems pointless. 
 My Friend has been here 8 years and has just gone for his yearly marriage extension and has been told he needs a visit.He said to them" I've been coming to the Office for 8 years,been staying at the same address and has a yellow House Book so why be checked again and why are no other Immigration Offices doing the same thing!!"...They came out with the same rubbish about the Bangkok Bombings bla bla .....he lives at the Northern end of Surin Province and he told them " it's going to be a nice 270k+ round trip,but up to them " .....lets see if they try to sting him for petrol money  :Smile:

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## Pragmatic

^ On top of the new shit we are getting from KCI we, in the Amphur I live, get an annual police visit on top. That I can accept.

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## robjak

> Some guys out here on a local forum are saying that they showed up for the visit and wanted to see a medical certificate. Nuts!


Humbert i don't know if you're referring to me on Surinfarrang but i didn't say they wanted to see medical certificate when they did house visit they wanted to see it when i applied for the extension at KC.

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## Humbert

> Humbert i don't know if you're referring to me on Surinfarrang but i didn't say they wanted to see medical certificate when they did house visit they wanted to see it when i applied for the extension at KC.


Sorry if I misunderstood but the way you phrased it that was not clear. In either case, medical certificates are not a requirement.

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## toddaniels

Here's a good thing for a change..

Normally when you apply for a Non-Immigrant Type-O visa at Chaengwattana for the purpose of later extending it for a year based on marriage, being old, or raising kids, AND you're using the embassy letter as proof of sufficient income, you have to go to the embassy get the letter twice. Once when you apply for the Non-O and then again when you apply for the year's extension. That's because those are different areas and each needs an original letter.

Yesterday I was with someone who was applying for the Non-O using the embassy letter (Canadian, not that it makes a difference). The officer had me go make a copy of it. She then stamped it and noted on the copy that we'd provided the original for the Non-O and that the copy she'd stamped was approved to be used for the yearly extension process in 2 more months.

I'd never seen that happen but with notaries at embassies running anywhere from 600 to a 2000+baht a pop, this new stamping deal, saves both time and money.

Anyway, that's it..

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## NZdick1983

Sounds good, Todd

1 less step/expense...  :35:

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