#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > Business, Finance & Economics in Thailand >  >  Passive income in thailand

## draco888

Does anyone actively invest in thai or other equities to generate income? there are quite a few thai equities which generate a comparatively good income in today's low yield world.

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## Thetyim

Dividend yield of companies from Thailand

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## draco888

Good place to start but that site is not very accurate/up to date nor comprehensive/exhaustive. Gives the private investor more oppurtunities in lesser researched markets though.

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## Thetyim

^ If you got a better list then post it up.
I have been thinking about trying this for a long time but haven't been able to get enough confidence to take the plunge.

I have been told they deduct tax at source for farangs
Is that correct ?

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## sabang

I think it's a good idea to have a basket of equities with a reasonable dividend yield, and the SET is not expensive on earnings multiples (something to do with the non-stop political turmoil here). Rental yields are pretty good too, but Thai real estate is quite illiquid.

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## draco888

> I think it's a good idea to have a basket of equities with a reasonable dividend yield, and the SET is not expensive on earnings multiples (something to do with the non-stop political turmoil here). Rental yields are pretty good too, but Thai real estate is quite illiquid.


yes always good to have a basket of equities to diversify risk. there is a listed ETF in thailand that contains 30 higher dividend equities (large, lower risk companies) within one security which may be a good place to start for a beginner. Sorry i dont know your level of experience, I may be talking down to you here, teaching granny to suck eggs  :Smile:  .

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## draco888

> ^ If you got a better list then post it up.
> I have been thinking about trying this for a long time but haven't been able to get enough confidence to take the plunge.
> 
> I have been told they deduct tax at source for farangs
> Is that correct ?


As far as I am aware there is no capital gains tax on equities in thailand, making it amongst the most attractive worldwide.
There is a 10% withholding tax on dividends which applies irrespective whether you are thai or non thai. that is the default automatic situation, obviously individuals personal tax positions are all different.

I am not a tax adviser, please don't rely on this as gospel.  :Smile:

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## Thaiedward

Finally...What! A discussion of contemporary investment options!.
I love it when we talk "dirty".

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## OhOh

> Dividend yield of companies from Thailand


The "best" payer gives you 8%




> There is a 10% withholding tax on dividends


A 2% loss for a years risk, way to go.

Whereas the shiny metal continues to provide a real positive return. :Smile:  Plenty of buying and selling outlets for "cash".

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## Thetyim

> A 2% loss for a years risk, way to go.


I gather you are new to this  :mid: 

8% dividend less 10% witholding Tax = 7.2%

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## Lorenzo

Yanks are better off with a US account. Safer and many more options

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## OhOh

^^Taxes on gambling, yes.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> but Thai real estate is quite illiquid.


Laymans terms?

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## OhOh

Easy to buy, crap to sell.

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## OhOh



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## draco888

> Yanks are better off with a US account. Safer and many more options


thai stocks can be bought and sold through a US brokerage account. I have never used a thai based brokerage for purchases of thai stocks.

US persons actually have far less options in the investment universe than other nationalities because of the onerous reporting requirements which the US has enacted. US persons are not welcome in many jurisdictions any more.

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## draco888

> ^^Taxes on gambling, yes.


and buying gold is not 'gambling'?

12mnths:

S&P 500 +19%
Gold       -7%

approx figures

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## nostromo

> Yanks are better off with a US account. Safer and many more options


Safer, but not earning any money.

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## nostromo

> US persons actually have far less options in the investment universe than other nationalities because of the onerous reporting requirements which the US has enacted. US persons are not welcome in many jurisdictions any more.


Anti market-economy Volcker rule. Of course it does not mean much, everyone  has gone - as it is very easy in these times - to more competitive UK or Australia, so just net loss for US - sadly

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## OhOh

> and buying gold is not 'gambling'?


Of course it is but is it taxed?




> 12mnths:
> 
> S&P 500 +19%
> Gold -7%


Investment dear boy, or are you day trading? See post #15




> Safer, but not earning any money.


You seem to have missed the number of brokerage houses both in the US and UK that have gone bust and their customers money, supposedly held in segregated accounts, vaporised.

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## nostromo

> You seem to have missed the number of brokerage houses both in the US and UK that have gone bust and their customers money, supposedly held in segregated accounts, vaporised.


That is a very good point. But in the end it is up to investors to demand segregated accounts - and MUCH more. I always demand segregated accounts for us, that is just the reality. 98% of Retail forex crowd, bless them (now I am like SD sorry :Smile: ) are not in the know. Currensee 63% long euro like some time ago :Smile:

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> and buying gold is not 'gambling'?
> 
> 
> Of course it is but is it taxed?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


no gold is not taxed in thailand. neither are capital gains in stocks. since there is no income from gold there is nothing to tax there.

no i do not day trade, hence the reason I gave 12 month figures. choosing another time period can make either one look better than the other I know.

Yes I fully agree, cant get any safer than gold in your own hand, no counterparty risk.

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## nigelandjan

Tell you where there are so good little deals mate ,, in the banks ( promos ) .

 If you can trust your wife /gf with about 1 mill tbt as a lump deposit   you can find a new promotion that will give you about 40.000 bht for only 4 months deposit .

  Unfortunately you have to withdraw it after the 4 months and wait or hunt around for another promotion .

  My BIL took the plunge this year with 3 mill i.e. 1 mill in his / his wifes and his sons names  ,, came up trumps  :Smile: 

  No garuntees ,, just another idea to look at

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## nostromo

> No garuntees ,, just another idea to look at


There are no guarantees, that is the bloody idea of it. No one knows where the market moves, there is that much political crap and psychological reaction. But this is the good time for imperialist adventurous mercantilist, we in the best tradition of British Empire make bloody billions when eurozone collapses. EURUSD 1.23031 as of now, tech shows going to 1.15 and fundamentals are south for europe, as much as europe is south 555 , now 1 euro is really less worth than 1 usd all things considered

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## nostromo

EURAUD 1.622 fok europe. Aus, UK and US are just better whatever probs there are.

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## draco888

> Tell you where there are so good little deals mate ,, in the banks ( promos ) .
> 
>  If you can trust your wife /gf with about 1 mill tbt as a lump deposit   you can find a new promotion that will give you about 40.000 bht for only 4 months deposit .
> 
>   Unfortunately you have to withdraw it after the 4 months and wait or hunt around for another promotion .
> 
>   My BIL took the plunge this year with 3 mill i.e. 1 mill in his / his wifes and his sons names  ,, came up trumps 
> 
>   No garuntees ,, just another idea to look at


its always worth reading the small print on any promos, ie are you free to withdraw it after 4 months and take it elsewhere? but some are definitely worth doing.

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## nostromo

> Originally Posted by nigelandjan
> 
> 
> Tell you where there are so good little deals mate ,, in the banks ( promos ) .
> 
>  If you can trust your wife /gf with about 1 mill tbt as a lump deposit   you can find a new promotion that will give you about 40.000 bht for only 4 months deposit .
> 
>   Unfortunately you have to withdraw it after the 4 months and wait or hunt around for another promotion .
> 
> ...


Those low gain investments are for those who want to live in the next world and then perhaps get some... then. OK, if you like

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## Zampan0

> Does anyone actively invest in thai or other equities to generate income? there are quite a few thai equities which generate a comparatively good income in today's low yield world.


I plan on putting all of my money into Thai titty bars.

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## nostromo

> I plan on putting all of my money into Thai titty bars.


Certainly better return to that you would get from bloody europe... :Smile:

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## ossierob

some interesting reading....I think trading gold is best for my peace of mind.....along with some investment returns from Australia to diversify my income

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## nostromo

> some interesting reading....I think trading gold is best for my peace of mind.....along with some investment returns from Australia to diversify my income


Australia is good. As far as China is OK, Aus is a winner. Australia, right or wrong my... Midnight Oil

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## Lorenzo

> US persons actually have far less options in  the investment universe than other nationalities because of the onerous  reporting requirements which the US has enacted. US persons are not  welcome in many jurisdictions any more. draco888 is offline Add to draco888's Reputation Report Post   	 Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet  this Post! Reply With Quote


Find that hard to believe. Unending options in US accounts.




> Originally Posted by Lorenzo
> 
> Yanks are better off with a US account. Safer and many more options
> 
> 
> Safer, but not earning any money.


About 15% YTD

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## superman

> I think trading gold is best for my peace of mind


Is that real gold or E-gold ? I've been thinking about investing in E-gold as I don't have secure storage.

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## nostromo

> Find that hard to believe. Unending options in US accounts.


No - lawful? - hedge option for US nationals. FIFO crap. Against all ideals of market economy. You can read Volcker rule. Sorry. Obamaland. Move to Canada.

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## nostromo

> Is that real gold or E-gold ? I've been thinking about investing in E-gold as I don't have secure storage.


Yeah you should better invest in e-gold. Now I give you an account number, just transfer the funds, and we will get back to you.  

If you are insane, this is a joke :Smile:

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## leemo

> Dividend yield of companies from Thailand


As Draco said, same for Thais, 10% at source.

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## VocalNeal

> Originally Posted by sabang
> 
> but Thai real estate is quite illiquid.
> 
> 
> Laymans terms?


Dodgy

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> US persons actually have far less options in  the investment universe than other nationalities because of the onerous  reporting requirements which the US has enacted. US persons are not  welcome in many jurisdictions any more. draco888 is offline Add to draco888's Reputation Report Post   	 Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet  this Post! Reply With Quote
> 
> 
> Find that hard to believe. Unending options in US accounts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You misunderstand what I mean, I was referring to the fact that US nationals are unable to open accounts or make investments in many jurisdictions. Yes I agree that within US accounts there are lots of options but leaving aside my first point, even the US accounts are unable to purchase securities that are widely available to non-US nationals. Hope this is clearer.  :Smile:

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## nostromo

> US nationals are unable to open accounts


I referred to this as well, if it makes it clearer :Smile: 

Because US nationals are within US jurisdiction, which does not allow certain practices that are seen normal elsewhere - my post above. But you can have account in UK, Australia, Canada... probably in bloody soviet union eh russia

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## mingmong

Interesting read, I'm finished with Share Market, stick with Property in Oz, 

 less Speculating!

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## draco888

> Interesting read, I'm finished with Share Market, stick with Property in Oz, 
> 
>  less Speculating!


History shows as more and more people give up on equities the closer we are to the time to buy. Eventually the Market becomes so hated that there are just no more sellers and it's the opportunity of a lifetime again. We are not at this point yet I don't believe.

Oz property has been good to many, highly correlated to commodity prices and therefore dependant on china. Any new entrants to the oz property Market are likely not going to make any money as they are buying into one of the most expensive markets in the world, great if you bought years ago though.

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## ltnt

What are ya trying to sell here Draco?  Not much market for shares in the new world markets these days.  Only fools go there and perhaps some scam artiest.

Why are all those multi-nationals chuck full of cash?  If they ain't buying why would John Q. Public be buying?  FFS, Thai stock exchange is an even worse example of the "casino effect."  Next to China, Hong Kong and India.  Go get em cowboys.

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## draco888

> What are ya trying to sell here Draco?  Not much market for shares in the new world markets these days.  Only fools go there and perhaps some scam artiest.
> 
> Why are all those multi-nationals chuck full of cash?  If they ain't buying why would John Q. Public be buying?  FFS, Thai stock exchange is an even worse example of the "casino effect."  Next to China, Hong Kong and India.  Go get em cowboys.


Hehe, I'm not trying to sell anything. As I said before when John Q in total has decided shares are a waste of time then it's time to buy.

Multi nationals are hanging onto cash because their future funding is uncertain, they have cut costs savagely, there are negative tax consequences of paying dividends, their business is not investment management. There are a whole host of reasons for high cash levels on corporate balance sheets.

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## ossierob

Gidday Superman...sorry about the slow response....mate E gold is the go...once again for peace of mind

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## OhOh

> Interesting read, I'm finished with Share Market, stick with Property in Oz, 
> 
> less Speculating!


Forward return analysis, believing the Chinese commodity buyers will continue to bankroll the Oz economy? The main Oz players are missing their targets as we speak. Once the SHTF watch them crater. Or does the rest of the world need Oz products other than military bases.




> .mate E gold is the go...once again for peace of mind


How much has the backer of your Egold paper/digital certificate in it's client segregated account  :mid:  compared to it's customers liabilities. Another ponzi.

Physical gold is the only way




> I don't have secure storage.


Gold taps, gold Buddah, "underground" gold, gold dildo the list is endless.

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## draco888

> Gidday Superman...sorry about the slow response....mate E gold is the go...once again for peace of mind


What do you mean by 'E gold' exactly?

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## superman

> What do you mean by 'E gold' exactly?


You don't actually see the gold. It's in paper form. If gold goes up or down the price of your E-gold is affected in the same manner. I believe you can cash your E-gold in at anytime. Other than that I'm hoping someone will fill me in.

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> What do you mean by 'E gold' exactly?
> 
> 
> You don't actually see the gold. It's in paper form. If gold goes up or down the price of your E-gold is affected in the same manner. I believe you can cash your E-gold in at anytime. Other than that I'm hoping someone will fill me in.


yes there are many different versions of what you are referring to, some very bad some OK.

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## Zampan0

> I believe you can cash your E-gold in at anytime.


Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy as well? Ever hear of a 'Bank Holiday"? Physical gold -and silver- is what you want. Just remember, you can't eat metals. Titty bars = quick daily cash and some happy meals as well.  :Smile:

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## nostromo

> I'm finished with Share Market, stick with Property in Oz


Safe as houses :Smile:  As long as Australia does not become Ireland... which is bloody unlikely.

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by superman
> 
> I believe you can cash your E-gold in at anytime.
> 
> 
> Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy as well? Ever hear of a 'Bank Holiday"? Physical gold -and silver- is what you want. Just remember, you can't eat metals. Titty bars = quick daily cash and some happy meals as well.


yep, at least initially some physical gold is the best first steps.

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## nostromo

> I believe you can cash your E-gold in at anytime


You may believe that. And then there is transaction error and the e-gold bucket shop has disappeared. Hope you do not put your life savings there, no fun looking for it at the dark side of the moon.

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by mingmong
> 
> I'm finished with Share Market, stick with Property in Oz
> 
> 
> Safe as houses As long as Australia does not become Ireland... which is bloody unlikely.


safe title, price a different matter altogether..... :Smile:

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## nostromo

> Originally Posted by nostromo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by mingmong
> ...


True. But in current climate, many are happy to just keep their wealth instead of losing it and never mind profit. That is why govt bond yields went negative in some safe haven countries like germany, switzerland, finland, the netherlands - UK and US not far behind.

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by nostromo
> ...


yes there is certainly a flight to safety globally, but the downside risk on Oz property is significant, though I realize this is a gross generalization and localized property markets can behave very differently.

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## Lorenzo

> Originally Posted by Lorenzo
> 
> Find that hard to believe. Unending options in US accounts.
> 
> 
> No - lawful? - hedge option for US nationals. FIFO crap. Against all ideals of market economy. You can read Volcker rule. Sorry. Obamaland. Move to Canada.


I trade some options, quite a few.  Not sure what you mean by hedge option? Any example available?

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## Butterfly

> Dividend yield of companies from Thailand


that list is highly incomplete, and probably not recent

some of them are paying 15% dividends,

BUT keep in mind that some of those shares can also be very illiquid, hence the need for a "market premium" to compensate for the liquidity risk. Some Small Cap will pay high dividend but lack transparency in their annual reports and earnings forecast, therefore making next year dividends hard to predict

The SET is publishing an Index for High Dividends achievers, it's called the SETHD

Some local ETFs are tracking the SETHD

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## Albert Shagnastier

> quick daily cash and some happy meals as well.


Well why not  :Smile:

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## nostromo

> Originally Posted by nostromo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Lorenzo
> ...


In laymans terms, US nationals are no more allowed to hedge their investment - the "better" bureucrats told you so. You can see that if you try to open an account being US national in any house in pc community- you will be directed back to US and end of game. 
And this is from who is with the US.

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## Butterfly

> History shows as more and more people give up on equities the closer we are to the time to buy. Eventually the Market becomes so hated that there are just no more sellers and it's the opportunity of a lifetime again. We are not at this point yet I don't believe.


well observed, I think we are almost there, but Active Equity ETFs are now reviving the appetite of some of the investing public, so maybe too early to call

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## Butterfly

> Interesting read, I'm finished with Share Market, stick with Property in Oz, 
> 
>  less Speculating!


actually for most people, property should be the only option for investment

Speculating on shares without the necessary data feeds and robust decision tools is a waste of time and money,

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## Albert Shagnastier

> actually for most people, property should be the only option for investment


Spot on mate - cheap as chips here too.

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## nostromo

> property should be the only option for investment


If you want to play with the big dogs, you need to change your attitude.

Your love, euroland fantasy is not doing very well is it. Your Belgian Kongo is like, 3rd poorest nation. Suck it and see. Belgium wants a bailout just after France, but there are no countries giving you it... blame UK and US right but suffer well and just die, commie euroshite bastard

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## Albert Shagnastier

> If you want to play with the big dogs, you need to change your attitude.


 :rofl:

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by mingmong
> 
> 
> Interesting read, I'm finished with Share Market, stick with Property in Oz, 
> 
>  less Speculating!
> 
> 
> actually for most people, property should be the only option for investment
> ...


I'm not at all certain the public at large knows any more about property investment than they do about equity investment.

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## nostromo

It should be left to the people to decide whether they know or not what they do, where they invest, where they buy their cars and the aircon. Not for the big brother. And especially not EU Commission - unelected bastards - big brother seeking to kill UK London City and then US and later on Australia.

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by Thetyim
> 
> 
> Dividend yield of companies from Thailand
> 
> 
> that list is highly incomplete, and probably not recent
> 
> some of them are paying 15% dividends,
> ...


It's not a bad concept but unfortunately you basically end with a large weighting in PTT, Siam Cement, Bangkok Bank and Charoen Pokphand Foods.

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## nostromo

> PTT, Siam Cement, Bangkok Bank and Charoen Pokphand


and others. I would exclude one from that list, but Thai economy is strong, in this global recession. Short europe, long Thailand and SEA.

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## Notnow

> Originally Posted by Zampan0
> 
> I plan on putting all of my money into Thai titty bars.
> 
> 
> Certainly better return to that you would get from bloody europe...


Nice tips too.

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## Lorenzo

> Originally Posted by Lorenzo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by nostromo
> ...


No example available??

Maybe you are just not familiar with options or other instruments. All US investments can be hedged if so desired. You can always take the other side of any trade.

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## Butterfly

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Thetyim
> ...


not really since the index has 30 securities, which is good enough for diversification, so no concentration on those megacaps if you equal weight those holdings

you will have a bias toward LargeCap but at least they will be liquid. I have a full list with SmallCap and MidCap but it's restricted to clients only.

Here are the constituents of the SETHD:

The Stock Exchange of Thailand : SETHD Quotation

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## Butterfly

> No example available??
> 
> Maybe you are just not familiar with options or other instruments. All US investments can be hedged if so desired. You can always take the other side of any trade.
> _________________


I think what he meant in his gibberish incomprehensible nutter English was not "options" as an Exchange instrument but that Americans can't have the possibilities to invest outside the US without the special reporting needs that the IRS requires.

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## Butterfly

> I'm not at all certain the public at large knows any more about property investment than they do about equity investment.


they don't but it's still an investment they can control more easily with real returns

any investment is a complex decision when you want to do it right, since most people don't have the patience or skills to do it, they end up doing investment based on luck, which can sometimes turn out to be fair or turn out very badly.

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Butterfly
> ...


I was referring to the ready-made thai high dividend ETF

PTT                                  31.8%
Siam Cement                      14.5%
Bangkok Bank                     12.4%
Charoen Pokphand Foods      10.5%

yeah if you do it yourself then obviously can pick and choose.

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## setaputra

> Originally Posted by Thetyim
> 
> Dividend yield of companies from Thailand
> 
> 
> The "best" payer gives you 8%
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is no capital gains tax and the tax on dividends is a withholding tax so can often be fully or partly recovered

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## Notnow

Oh, Passive income in Thailand, now I get it.  I thought it was about starfish.

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> I'm not at all certain the public at large knows any more about property investment than they do about equity investment.
> 
> 
> they don't but it's still an investment they can control more easily with real returns
> 
> any investment is a complex decision when you want to do it right, since most people don't have the patience or skills to do it, they end up doing investment based on luck, which can sometimes turn out to be fair or turn out very badly.


yes that's what i thought you were implying, however I dont think property investments are easier to control, and it could be said to be significantly harder to control due to illiquidity and higher transaction value. Are real returns more likely from property than any other form of investment? I doubt it. I suspect most 'real' returns investors see from property are due to inflation, helped by progressively lower interest rates, ignoring the time and expenses upkeeping the property, taxes etc etc.....Yes property has provided positive real returns in the past, but probably not as much as people like to think. A look at all the property in the US in negative equity/under water would suggest a lot of investors are probably having to rethink their previous assumptions about property. Remove the billions in Govt support for the property market and the disaster would be how much worse?

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## Butterfly

> I was referring to the ready-made thai high dividend ETF
> 
> PTT 31.8%
> Siam Cement 14.5%
> Bangkok Bank 12.4%
> Charoen Pokphand Foods 10.5%
> 
> yeah if you do it yourself then obviously can pick and choose.


which one would that be ? the ETF from Asset One / KGI that is tracking the whole SETHD index ?

Found this:

Thai Bourse Lists ThaiDEX SET High Dividend ETF On August 16

1DIV New ETF tracking High Dividend Index, 1st Trade 16 Aug

other SET relayed ETFs here:

The Stock Exchange of Thailand - Products & Services - ETF

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## Butterfly

> Are real returns more likely from property than any other form of investment? I doubt it. I suspect most 'real' returns investors see from property are due to inflation, helped by progressively lower interest rates, ignoring the time and expenses upkeeping the property, taxes etc etc.....Yes property has provided positive real returns in the past, but probably not as much as people like to think. A look at all the property in the US in negative equity/under water would suggest a lot of investors are probably having to rethink their previous assumptions about property. Remove the billions in Govt support for the property market and the disaster would be how much worse?


real returns in terms of "real" income received on investment. Don't disagree with the rest of your analysis, Real Estate is a poor return asset class over the long run, marked by speculative boom and burst cycle, like commodities. But for the clueless individual investor, it's their only viable option. That or CDs paying 1% per year.

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> I was referring to the ready-made thai high dividend ETF
> 
> PTT 31.8%
> Siam Cement 14.5%
> Bangkok Bank 12.4%
> Charoen Pokphand Foods 10.5%
> 
> ...


thats the 1DIV breakdown.

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## Butterfly

there is an easy strategy to follow actually,

cap weighted indexes have been found to lag equal weighted indexes, because of the rebalancing effect (aka value effect, or even market timing effect)

Taking the SETHD index and doing a monthly or quarterly rebalancing based on Equal Weighted allocation could proved to be a successful strategy in the long run, beating that SETHD index without doing much work

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## nostromo

> there is an easy strategy to follow actually


Sure, there always is :Smile: 

Why did you deny working for Societe Generale? I think I said somewhere you are intelligent. But a bastard. 

I challenge you to explain bollinger band and ichimoku cloud to the "idiots" as you put it. Could add elliot wave but don't want to lead you to suicide, you are good entertainment. And I do not want death to anyone in here.

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## nostromo

> I suspect most 'real' returns investors see from property are due to inflation, helped by progressively lower interest rates, ignoring the time and expenses upkeeping the property, taxes etc etc.....Yes property has provided positive real returns in the past, but probably not as much as people like to think.


That is something I might agree to.

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## draco888

> there is an easy strategy to follow actually,
> 
> cap weighted indexes have been found to lag equal weighted indexes, because of the rebalancing effect (aka value effect, or even market timing effect)
> 
> Taking the SETHD index and doing a monthly or quarterly rebalancing based on Equal Weighted allocation could proved to be a successful strategy in the long run, beating that SETHD index without doing much work


Another strategy may be to average into positions if the market dips when the next member of the royal family prepares for the throne.

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## Butterfly

> Another strategy may be to average into positions if the market dips


not always a good strategy if a market is going to crash long and hard, you unnecessarily increase your THB exposure and consequently your VaR

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## Butterfly

> when the next member of the royal family prepares for the throne.


I think we can expect the SET market to be "suspended" for a few weeks when that happens

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> Another strategy may be to average into positions if the market dips
> 
> 
> not always a good strategy if a market is going to crash long and hard, you unnecessarily increase your THB exposure and consequently your VaR


surely a better strategy than being all in all along, mathematically THB is the same and risk lower.

----------


## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> when the next member of the royal family prepares for the throne.
> 
> 
> I think we can expect the SET market to be "suspended" for a few weeks when that happens


As long as a few weeks you think? Interesting and a little disturbing.

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## Butterfly

a bit disturbing but something dramatic will happen for sure,

that or all the brokerage accounts frozen to stop everyone from leaving  :Razz:

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## draco888

it would have to be SET otherwise the offshore accounts would be at a big advantage?

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## Butterfly

I said weeks, but could be months  :Razz: 

regardless, a big crash first, something like 20% or 40% and then some kind of suspension of all financial activities

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## Thaiedward

Very much enjoyed these posts and appreciate the efforts of contributors.

It is my hope this thread can find a permanent home among the forums of this most-commendable website. Nostromo? Draco? 

Kind regards

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## draco888

Anything over 25% drop would make an attractive entry point I think, then time to pick up those companies with exposure to Burma.....  :Smile:

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> What do you mean by 'E gold' exactly?
> 
> 
> You don't actually see the gold. It's in paper form. If gold goes up or down the price of your E-gold is affected in the same manner. I believe you can cash your E-gold in at anytime. Other than that I'm hoping someone will fill me in.


There are gold ETF's available from different providers, it's a topic which provokes a lot of debate re the physical gold backing, leasing, derivatives etc but a few try to differentiate themselves by promoting physical backing in secure locations, no leasing out and offer the opportunity to redeem in physical gold.

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## nostromo

> I said weeks, but could be months 
> 
> regardless, a big crash first, something like 20% or 40% and then some kind of suspension of all financial activities


Interesting. You saying that. Can we make a bet? Expresso at Paragon? I will give you a tip though, chart out movement of THB against major currencies. Of course we will not know beforehand what happens, but I am afraid you are lead by your anti-Thai feelings instead of watching the markets- yes, it happens, but trader should distance himself from his feelings when taking positions - yeah unless he is in for the kill and knows it and is right :Smile:  - not so simple world, and as you said, simple strategy... everyone knows the simple strategy- why it fails.

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## nostromo

> Very much enjoyed these posts and appreciate the efforts of contributors.
> 
> It is my hope this thread can find a permanent home among the forums of this most-commendable website. Nostromo? Draco? 
> 
> Kind regards


Sadly my holidays are about to end now and so ends my time available for this, but thanks for feedback and thinking about it - next time, whenever, wherever it might be :Smile:   How about you doing it?

Kind regards, have a good life and return on your investments.

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## OhOh

> offer the opportunity to redeem in physical gold


One needs to ascertain some other aspects.

1. The cost premium to "exchange" the E Gold certificate, if in fact one is issued, for the physical, delivered metal, and how long that might take.

2. The cost of redeeming your E Gold certificate for cash and how long that might take.

It is sometimes made very easy to get into this type of deal but when you try and extricate yourself things can get difficult. Which of course is the definition of a Ponzi scheme.

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## draco888

ETF's by construction do not trade at a premium or discount to the underlying, E gold certificates I have no knowledge of. Standard transaction and delivery costs for insured precious metals.

Cost of redeeming ETF is standard equity brokerage commission and redemption is instant. Again no idea with E-gold certificates.

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## Lorenzo

> ETF's by construction do not trade at a premium or discount to the underlying,


Have seen some bond ETF trading at a small premium

BSJE - Guggenheim BulletShares 2014 High Yield Corporate Bond ETF - Guggenheim Funds Distributors, LLC

BTW these are good if you don't fancy loosing your principal

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> 
> ETF's by construction do not trade at a premium or discount to the underlying,
> 
> 
> Have seen some bond ETF trading at a small premium
> 
> BSJE - Guggenheim BulletShares 2014 High Yield Corporate Bond ETF - Guggenheim Funds Distributors, LLC
> ...


Other than fractions of a % point for the Market makers spread I don't see how it's possible for the price to deviate from the underlying NAV for more than a few micro seconds. What order of magnitude have you observed this premium reach?

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## Butterfly

> ETF's by construction do not trade at a premium or discount to the underlying,


they do sell at premium and discount to NAV and can have a large bid-ask spread depending on liquidity conditions, like a real stock or a closed end fund




> Cost of redeeming ETF is standard equity brokerage commission and redemption is instant.


there is no redemption in ETF, it's not a mutual fund. You are usually buying it from someone else, hence the bid/ask spread and the need for liquidity for situations where they sell at Premium or Discount to NAV.




> Other than fractions of a % point for the Market makers spread I don't see how it's possible for the price to deviate from the underlying NAV for more than a few micro seconds.


actually they can and do deviate from their NAV for a significant long time, the creation of additional unit is not instant or driven by simple transactions, it has to do with a minimum level of transactions before the "sponsor" issue more shares or something in that order. If the shares are very illiquid and there is little demand or supply, the discount and premium situation will persist.

----------


## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> ETF's by construction do not trade at a premium or discount to the underlying,
> 
> 
> they do sell at premium and discount to NAV and can have a large bid-ask spread depending on liquidity conditions, like a real stock or a closed end fund
> 
> 
> 
> ...


by redemption i meant sale, incorrect terminology.  :Smile:  was using previous posters terms.

the minimum sized blocks for authorised participants to purchase or redeem creation units means that any deviation from NAV is quickly arbitraged away for all but the most illiquid ETF's in my experience, however I have not focused very much on the smallest ETFs so no doubt there are large spreads that persist in that area.

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## Zampan0

Towards the end this concerns the Euro Zone and Sept. 12.

----------


## OhOh

As the commentator says the US has a "three strikes" rule for petty criminals but accept a 10% fine for the TBTF people. BD says sorry and receives a US$ 100 m payoff.

The Chinese send a different message to all perpetrators fraud.

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## Zampan0

> As the commentator says the US has a "three strikes" rule for petty criminals but accept a 10% fine for the TBTF people.


"We hang the petty thieve's and appoint the geat one's to public office"
Aesop  550 B.C.

----------


## OhOh

Not the best quality video.

----------


## OhOh

> Yanks are better off with a US account. Safer and many more options


Anyone included in the above may want to investigate the ramifications of recent court ruling there.

*RED ALERT: It’s Open Season on All Customer Funds « SGTreport – The Corporate Propaganda Antidote – Silver, Gold, Truth, Liberty, & Freedom
*
_"This ruling and precedent will be used by every brokerage, every bank, every insurance company and every pension fund to deny you your money when the financial system finally collapses, be it on Monday, or be it two years from now. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? You have GOT to GET OUT.”

The National Futures Association is collusion with the Banksters, government and judiciary and have achieved their goal. The entire concept of “customer segregated funds” is officially, completely, legally dead.

Guys, it is OVER. I know that many of you are still cowering in normalcy bias, unable to deal with reality, unable to face the world as it is, but you have GOT to snap out of it. The marketplace is DESTROYED. You CANNOT be in these markets. All legal protections are now officially gone."_

Continues......

----------


## OhOh

> but accept a 10% fine for the TBTF people.


Make that a 0.14% fine.

_"NEW YORK SETTLES PROBE OF STANDARD CHARTERED FOR $340 MLN
The life or death of STANCHART is settled - they live; and the $250 billion of 'laundering' transactions - sanctions/terrorism/drugs-related or not - are settled for a 0.14% transaction fee (that'll teach 'em!). In other words, Std Chartered's IRR for committing years of crime is 714%. Finally this is a whopping 1.9% of the bank's entire 2011 revenues, or in other words they had to hand over 7 days of revenue (assuming a 365 day work week). Of course there are other fines/penalties to come but it looks like someone got a little over-excited at the regulators or as we note, STANCHART had some bottom-drawer details no one wanted outed. And now, employees of US "regulators," "enforcers" and various other "crime fighting" organizations can look forward to submitting their resumes to the British banks all over again."_

----------


## Zampan0

> Not the best quality video.


But still a good post. Humorous and damn near true. "OhOh" gives good advice. 




> "This ruling and precedent will be used by every brokerage, every bank, every insurance company and every pension fund to deny you your money when the financial system finally collapses, be it on Monday, or be it two years from now. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? You have GOT to GET OUT.


Poster's here seem to have a fairly good handle on "investing", but only a few have got the message that the whole thing is rigged, metals too. Better to avoid buying material junk and work on improving our spiritial well being. The days of honest trading are long gone. Look to the small shops on main street selling or making quality items, quality small coffee shops, etc. Quality product and quality service -on a small scale- are the primary ingredients for the future. Imo. G. Celente thinks the same.

We are in an age of absolute corruption.  Morris also gives the reason for Ron Paul leaving the race, his family was threatened.

----------


## draco888

> Originally Posted by OhOh
> 
> but accept a 10% fine for the TBTF people.
> 
> 
> Make that a 0.14% fine.
> 
> _"NEW YORK SETTLES PROBE OF STANDARD CHARTERED FOR $340 MLN
> The life or death of STANCHART is settled - they live; and the $250 billion of 'laundering' transactions - sanctions/terrorism/drugs-related or not - are settled for a 0.14% transaction fee (that'll teach 'em!). In other words, Std Chartered's IRR for committing years of crime is 714%. Finally this is a whopping 1.9% of the bank's entire 2011 revenues, or in other words they had to hand over 7 days of revenue (assuming a 365 day work week). Of course there are other fines/penalties to come but it looks like someone got a little over-excited at the regulators or as we note, STANCHART had some bottom-drawer details no one wanted outed. And now, employees of US "regulators," "enforcers" and various other "crime fighting" organizations can look forward to submitting their resumes to the British banks all over again."_


An alternative view may be that the US has extorted $340 million from a foreign bank for processing transactions for a sovereign nation which the US currently views as an 'enemy'.

----------


## Butterfly

> Originally Posted by Lorenzo
> 
> Yanks are better off with a US account. Safer and many more options
> 
> 
> Anyone included in the above may want to investigate the ramifications of recent court ruling there.
> 
> *RED ALERT: Its Open Season on All Customer Funds « SGTreport  The Corporate Propaganda Antidote  Silver, Gold, Truth, Liberty, & Freedom
> *
> ...


that sounds like coming from an ill-informed nutter,

legislation is being put in place to segregate accounts for all derivatives houses,

----------


## Lorenzo

> Originally Posted by Lorenzo
> 
> Yanks are better off with a US account. Safer and many more options
> 
> 
> Anyone included in the above may want to investigate the ramifications of recent court ruling there.
> 
> *RED ALERT: Its Open Season on All Customer Funds « SGTreport  The Corporate Propaganda Antidote  Silver, Gold, Truth, Liberty, & Freedom
> *
> ...


Anything is possible

I have 5 separate accounts, can't see them all going tits up the same day. Vanguard has a Trillion in customer funds.

----------


## Butterfly

> I was referring to the ready-made thai high dividend ETF
> 
> PTT 31.8%
> Siam Cement 14.5%
> Bangkok Bank 12.4%
> Charoen Pokphand Foods 10.5%
> 
> yeah if you do it yourself then obviously can pick and choose.


can you check where you got that info ? the SETHD index itself doesn't have such high weights in those constituents, so I am curious to see if One Asset 1DIV is actually violating the Index construction method for their ETF by making overweight bets on those large cap issues

----------


## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> I was referring to the ready-made thai high dividend ETF
> 
> PTT 31.8%
> Siam Cement 14.5%
> Bangkok Bank 12.4%
> Charoen Pokphand Foods 10.5%
> 
> ...


It's direct from their own fact sheet on the ETF

----------


## Butterfly

^ couldn't find that info on OneAsset website, if you can find it, let me know

----------


## Tom Sawyer

> I plan on putting all of my money into Thai titty bars.


Think you'll find there's more money to be made in blow job bars. But you need to be an Aussie Jew with connections
 ::chitown::

----------


## draco888

> ^ couldn't find that info on OneAsset website, if you can find it, let me know


http://www.one-asset.com/ThailandMut...us/R010106.pdf

----------


## draco888

> Originally Posted by Zampan0
> 
> 
>  
> I plan on putting all of my money into Thai titty bars.
> 
> 
> Think you'll find there's more money to be made in blow job bars. But you need to be an Aussie Jew with connections


Please clarify:

aussie jewesses give great BJs and so are popular with customers?

aussie jews are are good managers of BJ bars?

what are the returns we can expect as an aussie jew BJ bar owner?

what are the returns we can expect as a non-aussie jew BJ bar owner?

 :Smile:

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Go ask em.

----------


## Zampan0

> Originally Posted by Zampan0
> 
> 
>  
> I plan on putting all of my money into Thai titty bars.
> 
> 
> Think you'll find there's more money to be made in blow job bars. But you need to be an Aussie Jew with connections


I'm not that low. I'm thinking of a more "up scale" type of bar with good drinks and music. I won't be selling women. Whatever the dancer's do after work is none of my business. Imo., there is more honesty and morality in Siam than there is in the US. My idea is to keep it that way, if we can.

A 3 min vid. on US biz & politics. And, it's only going to get worse.

----------


## Butterfly

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> 
> ^ couldn't find that info on OneAsset website, if you can find it, let me know
> 
> 
> http://www.one-asset.com/ThailandMut...us/R010106.pdf


thanks, definitely over weighted on those top 4 holdings

I guess they try to be an active EFT, not an Index ETF despite their marketing literature

Thanks for pointing out, definitely a risky investment that 1DIV ETF, I wouldn't recommend it, they are taking bets without really disclosing it, and their ETF description is highly misleading

That said, they did outperform their benchmark, and they have a large tracking error (positive returns) from the index, another sign of risk and departure from their "index" strategy

----------


## draco888

The SET website is as clear as mud on the index weightings as well their top 10 weightings bear no resemblance to anything, totally confusing.

----------


## Butterfly

actually the SET website is not too bad, you should try the SGX (Singapore) website, one of the worst of its kind, typical Chinese maze  :Razz: 

The weights are published for the SETHD, it's around 2% or 3% on each issue since they have a proprietary formula to calculate weight based on yield.

An explanation of why 1DIV is using such bets on their top 10 holdings is to avoid paying licensing fees to the SET, since the SETHD has to be licensed if it is to become a distributed fund. Buying the constituents and their weights per the Index construction model is what makes it "licensable". I doubt OneAsset is following that construction model at all, hence they are free to put any weight they want.

----------


## Zampan0

It's time to face reality.

----------


## Zampan0

I am sorry if I seem completly negative about the worlds economy, because I'm not.  As I've said before, the real coin of the realm is military might.  If what can be done by america for a measly 5 billion dollars, -in the vid below- what do you suppose amerika can do with the trillions of dollars invested in armaments?  From the sources that I value, amerika's place as as the worlds reserve currency should last for at least another 15 years.

Best watched in full screen HD.

----------


## nostromo

> hink you'll find there's more money to be made in blow job bars.


If well run, definitely better ROI than your account manager suggests with his portfolio. Risk factor, then, high too. 

But as an investor, you might get to inspect the investment... :Smile:

----------


## nostromo

> An alternative view may be that the US has extorted $340 million from a foreign bank for processing transactions for a sovereign nation which the US currently views as an 'enemy'.


Much spoken about yesterday across the channels. Who is the authority and can any country sue any bank in any country or in any other country. Lawyers will be glad, but banking costs to end users will rise.

----------


## draco888

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> An alternative view may be that the US has extorted $340 million from a foreign bank for processing transactions for a sovereign nation which the US currently views as an 'enemy'.
> 
> 
> Much spoken about yesterday across the channels. Who is the authority and can any country sue any bank in any country or in any other country. Lawyers will be glad, but banking costs to end users will rise.


the US has no need to sue anybody, intimidation will do. If intimidation ineffective assets are frozen. Military intervention also seems to be a favoured option in the US.

----------


## nostromo

Ehm. Cash cow for fed govt :Smile:  they need every penny, eh cent

----------


## nostromo

GBPUSD now 1.5708. EURUSD hit resistance some couple of times but fell.

----------


## OhOh

> But as an investor, you might get to inspect the investment...


You can certainly hold your "investment" in your hands.

----------


## OhOh

> Much spoken about yesterday across the channels. Who is the authority and can any country sue any bank in any country or in any other country.


Some countries are quite capable of working around the US determined "best practice". :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## nostromo

> Originally Posted by nostromo
> 
> Much spoken about yesterday across the channels. Who is the authority and can any country sue any bank in any country or in any other country.
> 
> 
> Some countries are quite capable of working around the US determined "best practice".


There we have some good forex brokers with good spreads and reasonable commission, accepting ones holding US ID and passport. But for how long...

Or more to the point, funny US found/or suspects by subpoena mostly foreign banks, like from UK and Germany, to blame. As if the ones...

----------


## draco888

> Originally Posted by OhOh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by nostromo
> ...


brokers located in thailand you mean?

----------

