#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > The Family Room >  >  International School fees under Covid-19

## Mendip

My nine year-old daughter goes to an international school in Korat.

She is currently being home schooled via video classes by her teachers who appear to be in their apartments. I have no problem with that... it's obviously not as good as going to school but the teachers are doing their best under a situation not of their making. This has been going on now for some weeks and the main problem is maintaining any kind of routine outside of the lessons... we've all had enough to be honest. I expect home schooling to continue to the end of this term (late June) and who knows what next year will bring.

Anyway, the school fees for next year are due and the school have offered a 2,700 Baht per term reduction next year (starting late August) as some incentive to stay aboard during this time. Needless to say this is a paltry amount when considering the cost per term. Just the school's savings on catering alone must be far in excess of this. Not to mention catering staff, security staff, nanny's etc, almost all of whom I'm sure will have been laid off. The savings on electricity must be huge.

I was wondering if any other members here have children at international schools, and if so, what kind of reductions the schools are offering for future school fees. I want to put a case together for a reduction in my daughter's fees.

I've hard that Sarasas is offering a 30% reduction, not that Sarasas is an international school (and I'd never send my daughter back there anyway), but it gives an idea of how other schools may be thinking.

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## AntRobertson

I was thinking similar but no word from our kids school as yet.

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## kmart

^Ditto. Still awaiting notifications regarding discounted term fees.. My 8yo is also taking the online "virtual learning" classes, but doesn't appear to be all that motivated by them, tbh. 

We have appointed a tutor to come to our house to teach Maths and basic Science to the boy (500 THB / 2 hour session) who is very good. Also in our village there are native speakers giving Chinese and French language lessons to kids also, for nominal rates. Okay so far..

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## Loy Toy

I just paid fees for another term and my wife didn't mention anything about discounts.

My daughter is also doing online lessons.

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## Mendip

I received the invoice for next year's school fees last week. They of course push for early payment... 3% 'administrative charges' for payment after next week's deadline...

It just seems to me that the school is very reluctant to pass on the huge savings they must be making under the Covid regime.

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## Dillinger

A friend told me that Regents in Pattaya have refunded 20% ot his school fees.

I need to go and re-read a message I got here last week but I'm sure it mentioned due to the cancelling of this years outdoor school activities that those fees will be omitted next year.

To be fair, the school is doing a great job and I'm getting a real insight into my daughter's education now. Its like putting my bed in the classroom :Smile:

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## cyrille

> I've hard that Sarasas is offering a 30% reduction, not that Sarasas is an international school (and I'd never send my daughter back there anyway), but it gives an idea of how other schools may be thinking.


It shows, as your comment on the place suggests, that they have a different market. One which is far more sensitive to fee costs.

Sadly the schools in the higher bracket will be very aware that parents tend to have a lot of 'brand loyalty' to the school their child attends. And if that loyalty is tested it will tend not to be tested by price but by the perception of the standards they maintain or fail to maintain.

Good luck in your quest, anyway.

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## Dillinger

> Sadly the schools in the higher bracket will be very aware that parents tend to have a lot of 'brand loyalty' to the school their child attends


They make sure you stay loyal with that big fuk off  administration fee to stop you swapping schools.

The invent of these zoom classroom lessons must be a right pain for your average dodgy sexpat  tefler, like Ray.  :Smile: 

Every Wednesday night in Pattaya's dark side at the Loft, there was a Quiz night full of International school teachers.  I could only fathom how they'd turn up to school the next day.

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## AntRobertson

> It just seems to me that the school is very reluctant to pass on the huge savings they must be making under the Covid regime.


It does make you wonder. 

Salaries etc. would likely be staying the same (hopefully even, you don't want to be losing good teachers) but surely even just the operational and running costs would be significantly reduced for a start.

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## Mendip

^^^ I also think the school is doing a great job under the circumstances, but that doesn't alter the fact that they must be making huge savings on catering, staff wages and electricity bills, etc etc

^^ Sarasas... enough said.

Another problem in Korat is that we aren't exactly spoilt for choice with international schools, and my daughter's school is obviously well aware of that. Once a kid is in the 'international' system it's extremely hard to get them out... my daughter's Thai is no-where near strong enough for her to enter main stream education, and her English would be better than any teacher's, which would cause it's own problems.

I wonder if the Thai 'face' has anything to do with it. At pick-up time my daughter's school car park is full of red plate BMWs, Mercs, Porches, etc owned by parents doing very well for themselves (at least outwardly). It puts my 14 year old Hilux to shame, but at least I own it.

Would it be loss of face for these people to be seen asking for a fee reduction?

^ Yes, it is difficult to swap schools, but I would given some choice in Korat.

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## cyrille

> I wonder if the Thai 'face' has anything to do with it. At pick-up time my daughter's school car park is full of red plate BMWs, Mercs, Porches, etc owned by parents doing very well for themselves (at least outwardly)


Oh, most definitely!

My wife used to be an HOD and she absolutely_ hated_ that 'meet and greet' when the parents show up at the end of the school day. 

Couldn't wait to get out.  :Very Happy: 

Some Thai parents would leave if the fees were dropped, without doubt.

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## Dillinger

From what I see, the teachers are still working and doing a good job. Homework is frequent. 
I have no qualms at all paying for my daughter's education that I can virtually view every moment of.

As for expecting a discount, how much would you pay an online tutor? 
Topper would charge 5 hamburgers an hour and teach your kid a shit load of Americanisms

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## Mendip

^ I take your point and I agree that the teacher's are doing a good job. I still don't think it's anywhere near as good as the kids actually being in a classroom, but that's another issue.

The school is saving a small fortune and I think some of that should be passed on.

And as for virtually viewing the education... it has it's plus sides, but the disruption to working parents is huge unless they're happy for their kids to be left alone at home. I can already see that my daughter needs constant supervision or she'll be straight on to Youtube while the lessons are ongoing, and Roblox on her pc in between lessons.

I lost patience today and confiscated her Tablet for the school day!

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## Mendip

> It does make you wonder. 
> 
> Salaries etc. would likely be staying the same (hopefully even, you don't want to be losing good teachers) but surely even just the operational and running costs would be significantly reduced for a start.


I'm sure the school teachers are relatively unaffected. But how about catering staff, security staff, cleaning staff, nannies, electricity (lighting/cooking/aircon). I'd like to bet the vast majority of those have been laid off.

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## qwerty

A friend went to our school a few days ago and all of the maids/cooks/maintenance workers were there hard at work*.  We started online lessons this morning and I've found them to be almost as labor intensive as f2f classes.  

Online classes are scheduled to end on June 30 and f2f classes should start on July 1.  

With only a few rooms using AC and no meals being prepared, I'm sure that the owner is going to make a nice profit this year.  It is nice to see that he is using that profit to keep everyone employed.

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## Dillinger

> I can already see that my daughter needs constant supervision


You wouldn't have seen that without these online lessons. I've realised too that my daughter rarely pays attention and sits there daydreaming, like I used to do :Smile: 

I also deleted Roblox from the nipper's tablet last week :Smile:  and about 50 stupid mind numbing games that she's re-installed.

I think these online lessons are a good thing though, even if I am doing most of her homework :Smile: 

Its 11.40 am here and school has now just finished for the day.
Today we have learned about bridges and right angles

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## jabir

No word of discounts from our school, kid does online lessons and some of these are a youtube video which pisses me off as I could just as easily have him watch them in his own time. While there's nothing to beat the social environment of a school, something's better than nowt. 

Timing was also perfect for the school, since we paid up front for the next semester just as the closures began, and though it's highly unlikely if this goes into November which is the beginning of the next semester, quite a few parents have said they will do home schooling rather than pay a wad for more of the same.

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## Mendip

^^ Is that in Thailand? I ask because my daughter's school year finishes at the end of June, so those dates would suggest no proper lessons again until the next school year.

And to be fair to the school, I've assumed that the majority of maintenance/security/catering/maids staff have been laid off... I could be wrong but knowing how hard-nosed this school is I'd be surprised if they're being paid.

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## Mendip

^^ Is there a legal issue with home schooling? Do kids not have to be enrolled in a school?

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## Dillinger

> The school is saving a small fortune and I think some of that should be passed on.


Just thinking about this. 

Imagine employing  online tutors and a decent wage for them would be probaby about a tenner an hour. If you have say 20 students, thats only 50p an hour and to equate that to the amount of online tuition my daughter receives a week that would only set me back  about 10 pounds per week.

I see your point now. These schools need fucking off. These teachers like Cyrille with their fucking teacher training days straight after a 6 week fucking holiday. :Smile:

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## armstrong

It's actually more work for the teachers at home.  Planning, preparing, marking is all on the computer so we're stuck staring at a screen all day.  Live lessons every day where you somehow have to control 20 children just by video on a platform you didn't even know existed a few months ago.

And all that with my own 6 year old at home all day too.

A few school around here have kept all their staff and got the kitchen to send out meals for a small price. School is open if teachers want to go in so security and maids still around.

It'll be nearly 5 months since my daughter went to school if they go back in July...

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## cyrille

> It's actually more work for the teachers at home


True.

Damn tedious work setting stuff up, too.

Mercifully I haven't had to deal with kids for nigh on 15 years.

 ::spin::

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## Mendip

^ Point taken... but my daughter's school have no online lessons on Wednesdays, presumably to accommodate marking and stuff. 

To my mind, one day a week of not teaching should mean a 20% reduction right there!

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## Loy Toy

Topper will probably add some insight as I believe he is going to tutor on-line.

Watching my daughter do her lessons on-line was quite interesting and she could work all day long which she did regularly.

I believe this method of teaching/ learning may be a thing to consider very seriously.

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## cyrille

^^Yeah, you have a fair point about savings on things like staff and power being passed on.

Certainly any payments for outward-bound activities should be returned.

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## katie23

@mendip - I don't know the situation in TH, but in PI, there's no legal issue with homeschool until Junior High (Grade 10, around 16 y.o.). I'm not sure if the kids have to enroll the 2 years of Senior High (Grades 11 & 12) in a physical school.

I have a colleague who home-schooled her kids for a time (she was jobless, the husband was sole earner). To my understanding, the kids had to be enrolled in a govt approved Home School Program (e.g. XYZ Home School Inc). They paid for some fees, got books & materials from the school. She (the parent) administered the tests. They sent the test results to the school. The kids also had a 1x/ month session at the school - to meet other kids and for the teacher to monitor progress. The kids are issued a report card at the end of the school year. The elder kids were able to enter university here. (The youngest kid had to go to a normal school, since the mom resumed work.) The eldest kid has graduated from uni and has a good entry-level job, which was related to her field of study. So in this case, home schooling was OK for them. Hope that helps in some way.

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## jabir

> ^^ Is that in Thailand? I ask because my daughter's school year finishes at the end of June, so those dates would suggest no proper lessons again until the next school year.
> 
> And to be fair to the school, I've assumed that the majority of maintenance/security/catering/maids staff have been laid off... I could be wrong but knowing how hard-nosed this school is I'd be surprised if they're being paid.


Yes Thailand, UK curriculum but not an international school, holidays March, April and October.

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## Mendip

^ Thanks Jabir... I was actually asking qwerty but the number of ^ got out of sync!

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## Saint Willy

> ust the school's savings on catering alone must be far in excess of this. Not to mention catering staff, security staff, nanny's etc, almost all of whom I'm sure will have been laid off. The savings on electricity must be huge.


Our school uses an outside caterer. They have maintained all their staff, but obviously have no income. (we have waived their rental) 
Our security staff are working full time. 
We do not use nanny's.
Our maintenance & landscapers are working full time.
We are installing additional infra red temperature gates & hand sanitizer around the school etc.  
Our teachers and all teaching assistants are providing full online learning 
Electricity is a slight saving.  But depends, a school I know is locked into a contract to use x amount of electricity per month or pay a 'fine'. 
Most international school's budgets are around 80-90% staff salaries. (which are a fixed cost) 

Our photocopying is down, but we still have to pay rental on the machines (arguing the toss right now) 
water slightly done. 
Site rental has been deferred, not waived. 

We have paid extra to divert phone lines to receptionists mobile. 
We have paid extra on staff internet connections. 
We have paid extra for reception staff mobile phone bills. 
Slight savings on stationary. 

Most schools are not making huge profits. 

Online learning is more work for teachers. 

Learning is not measured in minutes and hours of teacher talk. 









> Imagine employing online tutors and a decent wage for them would be probaby about a tenner an hour. If you have say 20 students, thats only 50p an hour and to equate that to the amount of online tuition my daughter receives a week that would only set me back about 10 pounds per week.


Schools are very different to tution centres and cannot be compared. 

Having said that, if I had a children aged between 3-7 ... I'd probably take them out of school, and forget school fees until 2021.

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## armstrong

My daughter school started online learning today.  A 30 minute lesson of some guy saying animal names.

Get what you pay for I guess...

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## Dillinger

^ I thought you teachers got free tuition for your kids.

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## armstrong

> ^ I thought you teachers got free tuition for your kids.


Not all places and it depends on your contract.

Edit: you'd be surprised how many don't offer the full tuition.

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## Saint Willy

> Not all places and it depends on your contract.
> 
> Edit: you'd be surprised how many don't offer the full tuition.



Discounts of 70%-90% appear to be the medium offer. 

And usually limited to 2 children.

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## katie23

@mendip - I know of another colleague who home-schooled his kids. One kid is now in uni, doing well. Parents are both professionals. His wife stopped work to home-school their 3 kids. I've seen the kids and they seemed polite, well-behaved and happy. He said that one advantage was that his kids have more time to hone their talents - the kids all play instruments and sometimes attend sports sessions like football/ soccer, etc. 

I think home schooling works if one parent is staying at home full time & supervises the kids. Then in high school/ college, they can have the choice to go to a regular school.

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## Mendip

Thanks again Katie...

Home schooling isn't an option as in normal times I'm away at work for about 50% of the time and my wife isn't in the slightest bit interested.

I guess when reading the various posts I can see the other side of it... the schools continuing with maintenance, internet fees etc... maybe I just have too much time on my hands just now!

I however reluctant to commit the usual fees upfront if the schools are to remain closed... I don't think the video lessons are anywhere near as good as a proper classroom.

And I still can't believe the school isn't making big savings at the moment... catering and electricity at least.

The school company made a 46 million Baht net profit (not including dividends) in 2019. They ain't doing badly.

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## Saint Willy

> And I still can't believe the school isn't making big savings at the moment... catering and electricity at least.


Our monthly electricity bills are 1% of the monthly wage roll. Any savings on electricity is minimal. 

Catering probably depends on the set up. You could probably guesstimate it, but again I would not assume that because you can make a sandwich or bowl of noodles at at home for 23 or 31 baht or whatever that it scales in the same manner. 

Do students pay upfront? Is it part of school fees, or has all income dried up?

*Income* 
x per meal/student = presumably 0 right now or are they providing take out meals for hospitals or charity or even business provision. (ours is doing charity) 

*Costs*
Capital on Kitchen 
Capital on dining room/seating
Electricity
Water
Gas
Cleaning 
Pest Control
Safety equipment
PPE for staff
?Rent to the school
Food supplies. (is there contract to buy x amount of milk or y amount of meat each month? - does that need to be honoured?)
Staff wages
Government Taxes
Staff training 
Health certificates and other government compliance
Any rental & maintenance of kitchen appliances


*I'm not in catering, so just estimating costs, someone who knows more might be able to elaborate

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## Saint Willy

> The school company made a 46 million Baht net profit (not including dividends) in 2019. They ain't doing badly.


Maybe they did. 

But costs are relatively fixed right now, and with student withdrawals and any discounts being offered are cutting into that. Many international schools run on a very fine margin, and I know of several that have just closed recently.

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## AntRobertson

Literally just received email from the school... 5% tuition fee refund apparently.

Better than a kick in the nuts I suppose.

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## Dragonfly

5% refund? that's a kick in the Nuts  :Smile: 

ask for 30%

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## Saint Willy

> 5% tuition fee refund apparently.


Refund or credit note? 

Cash flow is critical right now.




> ask for 30%


I had an email asking for 50% last night. 

Just make up numbers, that feels more fun. None are likely.

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## Dragonfly

> Maybe they did. 
> 
> But costs are relatively fixed right now, and with student withdrawals and any discounts being offered are cutting into that. Many international schools run on a very fine margin, and I know of several that have just closed recently.


true, maybe parents are forgetting that to keep open those schools, they have financial obligations to maintain the place, and still pay teachers

those school fees are basically there to cover all costs + owner profit,

is 5% really the profit margin of the owners? then yes, it's justified as a discount, but I doubt it's simply 5%, or are they only taking into account the dividends paid by the school to the owners?

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## AntRobertson

> Refund or credit note?


Good point but both actually.

Credit note for next semesters fees or refund for leavers.

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## Mandaloopy

I just finished up with online classes as of a couple of hours ago and am now on holiday until September, as normal. It's been a mixed bag with these online lessons for sure, for a while here the government mandated that working parents must be allowed to work from home for full pay, that ended a month ago and has caused issues for working parents, particularly single mums and dads.

We used Google Meets due to security concerns surrounding Zoom-in the end I broke my students into smaller groups so they were easier to manage and we had more chance of getting some distance collaborative learning going on- Jamboards was pretty decent for this. It as taken somewhat more work than face to face learning, but a lot of that could be me getting used to new platforms etc.

Flipgrid as been great for oracy and making homework a little more fun- I've sent students on scavenger hunts around their homes for rhymes and grammar tenses- this works best with sibling/parent/maid help. 

As I understand it my place of work has discounted the last two terms fees, but their have been some complaints as one would expect.  All this screentime is no good for anyone and I hope that we are back to school in person come September. 

99% of parents have been super supportive and that goes a long way and is appreciated. 

Now what to do with around 3.5 months of downtime...

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## Mendip

^^ For my daughter's school it's not a refund, but the offer of 2700 Baht per term discount for the next six terms, ie over two school years. Total amounting to 16200 Baht... if you keep your child in the school for another two years.

While we're about it, what's a ball park percentage difference in salaries between Western teachers and Filipino teachers? There seem to be less and less Western teachers at this school and more and more Filipino, and my daughter now speaks with a broad Filipino accent.

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## Dragonfly

2700 THB discount for a 2 year commitment seems like very risky and not worth it, fuck them the greedy bastards

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## cyrille

^^Hard to generalise, but I'd say 30-50%.

If you're considering the homeschooling option, it's '...fewer and fewer Western teachers...'  :Wink:

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## aging one

> There seem to be less and less Western teachers at this school and more and more Filipino, and my daughter now speaks with a broad Filipino accent.





> ^^Hard to generalise, but I'd say 30-50%.


At a top tier International school in Bangkok you will find no Filipino teachers at all.

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## jabir

> Literally just received email from the school... 5% tuition fee refund apparently.
> 
> Better than a kick in the nuts I suppose.


Not sure how bad a kick in the nuts is, but I think I would prefer that to a 5% rebate which would have me and I know at least one other well triggered. Meanwhile, no rebate and no surprise this end.

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## cyrille

RealKW makes some valid points about fixed costs.

^^ Sure. Not the point under discussion, is it.

As we all know anyway, nationality is a very blunt instrument for deciding what salary a teacher is worth.

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## AntRobertson

> Not sure how bad a kick in the nuts is, but I think I would prefer that to a 5% rebate which would have me and I know others well triggered. Meanwhile, no rebate and no surprise this end.


Yeah I was sorta looking at it from the perspective of expecting nothing so something is OK.

It's good that they've taken leavers into account as well and there is some other stuff they're doing.

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## Shutree

> While we're about it, what's a ball park percentage difference in salaries between Western teachers and Filipino teachers? There seem to be less and less Western teachers at this school and more and more Filipino, and my daughter now speaks with a broad Filipino accent.


In Isan government schools a qualified Filipino teacher (B.Ed., if you believe the paperwork) gets about B20K per month, paid for 11 months. At the same school, a Native English Speaker TEFLer gets about B30K, plus or minus, also 11 months, depends on the school. At a private school the Western teachers should also be B.Ed. qualified, which would merit a much higher salary.

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## Saint Willy

> While we're about it, what's a ball park percentage difference in salaries between Western teachers and Filipino teachers?


Varies a lot, depending on school and country. 

Usually around on a salary around 50% - 65% lower. 




> ^^Hard to generalise, but I'd say 30-50%.


bet me to it. 

QUOTE=aging one;4106032]At a top tier International school in Bangkok you will find no Filipino teachers at all.[/QUOTE]

Yes and no. Which is a shame, considering that Indian, Fillipino, Taiwanese teachers can be just as good or better than any western/white faced teacher. 




> As we all know anyway, nationality is a very blunt instrument for deciding what salary a teacher is worth.


And rather inequitable and unjust.

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## katie23

Filipinos are willing to work for lower pay - as seen from the above reports.

The Filipino teachers may not have the accent you want, but they are well-trained. Most have been teaching for years, and are licensed teachers and/or have post-graduate degrees. Generally not pedos or drunkards.

Accdg to BLD when I met him, most of his sons' teachers at the international school in Vientiane were also Filipinos. (Their family has relocated to Oz.)

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## Saint Willy

> Filipinos are willing to work for lower pay - as seen from the above reports.


Willing does not mean fair, though.

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## jabir

^^
Accents are important, Katie, having paid good money for an 'English' course that's what I want my child to receive, not American-, Indian-, Russian-, or as today Belgian-, and last week Scottish-English which frankly I had difficulty understanding. 

And I do cringe/correct him when he breaks into an American accent.

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## Mendip

I guess my point about the Filipino teachers wasn't about the quality of their teaching... the ones my daughter has had have been excellent. My point was that when my daughter enrolled at the school there were very few Filipinos, and now there are lots, having replaced a lot of Western teachers. The school fees having been going up a lot, year on year, while the increasing use of Filipino teachers is a huge cost saving for the school.

Just now my daughter has a Western (Aussie) English teacher, a Singaporean Maths teacher, a Thai Thai teacher and a Chinese Chinese teacher. All the rest are Filipino.

Is it fair that Filipino teachers get paid so much less? I don't know, but that's just life. When I work offshore we use a lot of Filipinos as deckhands, stewards and for catering and I'm sure they are working for a fraction of the wages of Norwegians they replaced, and they work much longer trips. They do an equally good job (in catering a lot better in my opinion), but if they weren't cheaper they wouldn't be there.

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## Mendip

> ^^
> Accents are important, Katie, having paid good money for an 'English' course that's what I want my child to receive, not American-, Indian-, Russian-, or as today Belgian-, and last week Scottish-English which frankly I had difficulty understanding. 
> 
> And I do cringe/correct him when he breaks into an American accent.


My daughter keeps using American words; cookie instead of biscuit, candy instead of sweets, etc. Every time she says one I give her a punishment of having to say five American words and their (proper!) English equivalent.

But in all seriousness, my daughter's curriculum is UK, and there have been constant issues with American versus English spelling and it has been very confusing for the kids. The school initially said it doesn't matter, so long as it's consistent, but a young kid doesn't understand the concept of the difference between English UK and English American spelling. Now it is supposed to be English UK throughout, yet my daughter is still bringing books back with American spelling. I don't know if this matters or not, but my understanding is that marks will be lost by using American spelling in a UK curriculum.

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## Dragonfly

the problem is not their nationality, but their accent

do you want kids to speak like Philipino or Indians? don't think so, even if they might have better teaching at the end

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## katie23

@jabir - re: accents, you could teach your kids your preferred accent (US/ UK), I think. It's also important to learn grammar, vocabulary, etc. I've listened to some call center agents here. They have (are taught) American or neutral accents, but some have poor grammar. I think both are important - accent and grammar. I can fake a US accent when I want to, due to Hollywood movies.

@mendip - yes, I've seen that you work in the oil industry and there are loads of Filipinos on cargo ships, oil tankers, cruise ships, etc. I know of mariners who work for Maersk or Swedish shipping lines. I don't know if their pay is equal to their Scandy counterparts - most likely not. Is it fair? Probably not. But Filipinos (or Indians, Bangladeshi, Myanmar, Indonesian nationals) are willing to accept lower pay & sacrifice living conditions (e.g. 10 ppl in a room) just to be able to send $$ to their families.

Anyway... I'm not blind to my country's faults or weaknesses, nor am I butt-hurt. I've lived in farangland, travelled to several countries and have seen more of world than my little island. 

And yes, I agree that in some situations, accents are important. Sometimes, even surnames are important too. I've had an ex-colleague (who migrated to NZ) tell me that there are many Asians who changed their surnames/ whole names into Western-sounding names so that they'll be more favored in job searches. Is that fair? It's not, but that's the way in that part of the world.

@dragonfly - it's Filipino/ Filipina with an F, not Ph. Cheers!

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## cyrille

> Accents are important, Katie, having paid good money for an 'English' course that's what I want my child to receive, not American-, Indian-, Russian-, or as today Belgian-


Look on the bright side - as of today, the only way is up.  :Very Happy:

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## aging one

> My daughter keeps using American words; cookie instead of biscuit, candy instead of sweets, etc. Every time she says one I give her a punishment of having to say five American words and their (proper!) English equivalent.
> 
> But in all seriousness, my daughter's curriculum is UK, and there have been constant issues with American versus English spelling and it has been very confusing for the kids. The school initially said it doesn't matter, so long as it's consistent, but a young kid doesn't understand the concept of the difference between English UK and English American spelling. Now it is supposed to be English UK throughout, yet my daughter is still bringing books back with American spelling. I don't know if this matters or not, but my understanding is that marks will be lost by using American spelling in a UK curriculum.


I am surprised at how the Brits love their accent. I would say in general Americans dont care about accents at all. Spelling should not be taken seriously in my opinion, theater, theatre, color colour, center centre. I would simply point out there are two ways to spell the word, chose the one you prefer.

My kids went to Thai schools all the way up to high school, then entered the Harrow School with the British curriculum just in time for IGCSE's.  Upon entering they were the butt of many a joke with their American accents, but really did not care. As for spelling that Mendip is worried about Harrow accepted either spelling, the first two years they always used the American spelling, but the last two would switch back and forth. 

So I think worry about the quality of the education rather than the accent.  I was fully prepared to have my kids coming out with a British accent but it did not happen. Certain words yes they pronounce British. The one thing they did pick up was taking the piss out of someone. I was usually their target.

But I sure am glad I put them in the British system. Graduated with honors, easily accepted to great universities, graduated with honors and now gainfully employed, living in California and very happy.

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## Mendip

^ I don't know why UK versus American spelling matters so much to me, but it just does. Maybe I should accept that my daughter is not so much a Brit but more 'international'.

I know it does my daughter's head in. On the way home from school, for example, she'll ask to stop for candy, and I'll say, how can we... there's no such thing. She'll roll her eyes and ask to stop for sweets. 

But I have instilled in her a fine sense of sarcasm... she can take the piss out of many adults without them even knowing it. Maybe I'm concentrating on the wrong things?

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## aging one

> But I have instilled in her a fine sense of sarcasm... she can take the piss out of many adults without them even knowing it. Maybe I'm concentrating on the wrong things?


You have to think international as that is what she is. I often forget my kids are half Thai, until they get going full speed in Thai with their mom.  Enjoy mate, as I have said it goes by way way too fast..

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## cyrille

Your relationship with your daughter is clearly something to treasure, Mendip.

As long as she doesn't ask you to stop for balut on the way home I wouldn't worry too much.  :Very Happy:

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## Mendip

^ I had to look that up...

I may have mentioned that we keep chickens and they run with a cockerel, so all of our eggs are fertile. We used to keep the eggs out on the kitchen worktop (counter), until a few years ago, around this time of year, we found that they'd started to develop into chicks. Not a nice start to the day when you break a few eggs into a bowl to make an omelette. The God-awful heat through April and May was enough to start the eggs incubating.

Thankfully my daughter was as repulsed as I was.

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## katie23

^your daughter is showing her UK side.  :Very Happy:  If she were Thai (or Viet, Lao, Filipino), she would eat balut. I've eaten chicken & duck baluts since childhood.

On a lighter note - this duck is now one month old, and it was named "Cobibe". "Bibe" is Tagalog for duck. Cobibe = covid + bibe. The story is that the woman bought a fertilized egg, with the intention to boil it at home. She did some chores and forgot about the egg. A few days later, she heard "chick" sounds - the egg had hatched into a duckling. Cobibe is now a pet of the family.  :Smile:  




Btw, still on covid - there have been babies born during this period with the names Covid Rose (girl) and Covid Bryant! (not kidding - was featured in local news) Filipinos take the piss in that way.  :Smile:

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## Dillinger

> Covid Bryant!


 :smiley laughing: 

Poor kid.

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## nidhogg

> . Graduated with honors.


Honours.

555.


But i do have to say that a filipino accent drives me into a homicidal rage.  Soirrre.....

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## katie23

^it's ok, nid. I don't like the Essex, Cockney, Midlands, Manc or Geordie accents, so no harm done.  :Very Happy: 

Ooh... Loo-tenant or lef-tenant (lieutenant)? Zehb-ra or zeeb-ra (zebra)? (opening a can of worms here, lol)

Btw, Cobibe the duck & baby Covid Bryant are real stories - got a few greens for that post.

Just re: Filipinos and names, a priest once said during his sermon that in the 90s, he was baptising babies named Michael Jordan Cruz, Michael Jordan Santos, etc. Nowadays, it's LeBron James Cruz, Kobe Bryant Santos, Stephen Curry Martinez, etc. Then a month ago, there's baby Covid Bryant!

Cheers all!  :Smile:

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## Mendip

^ I thought of naming our new puppy 'Covid' as she just turned up a few weeks ago during the lockdown... but it just didn't seem right.

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## jabir

It's not just the accent; when the school saves a few baht by having Thais compile an English test the results can be amusing at the surface but infuriating beneath, esp for those paying extras for an English course.

Last week one of the questions posed was, quote, "If the year is 2020, what will it be?"
A1: 2019
A2: 2020
A3: 2021
A4: 2022

Who answered 2021 with a mental pat on the back? 

If this was posed correctly, ie followed by 'next', one should still recoil at the academic expectations of any teacher posing it to 8 year old luk kreungs, or ftm even Thai 8 year olds at a gov school. But that's not the point. Sure we know what the teacher meant, but kids don't, and my education on the day was courtesy of an 8 year old whose curiosity and ability to think outside of the box has not yet been bleached away by the abysmal Thai education system: 'Dad it will be 2020 till the end of the year, no?'

I supported him and 2020 we plumped for, although I knew it would be marked wrong, and when it was I fired off a pm to  the teacher that rightfully belongs in the Daily Moan thread. 

Next day, same teacher, I could not understand three of the set of 10 questions no matter how I played with the possible interpretations, one regarding the Thai Constitution I had to google, while two of the others were ambiguous leading to more than one of the 4 possible answers. This time I posted my unadulterated thoughts on the site for all to see, to the effect that my son will not be participating in future English tests that are not compiled by an English speaking teacher.

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## cyrille

> I posted my unadulterated thoughts on the site for all to see


At least some punishment was meted out, then.

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## katie23

> ^ I thought of naming our new puppy 'Covid' as she just turned up a few weeks ago during the lockdown... but it just didn't seem right.


When I was a kid, our neighbors named their 1st dog Gorby, younger dog was called Boris - after Gorbachev & Boris Yeltsin.

I think naming a pet after a famous event/ person is OK. It would always remind you of that particular time. You could name the dog Coby/ Kobe/ Koby. Cheers!  :Smile:

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## Mendip

^ 'Coco' it was!

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## bowie

> 'Coco'


  :goldcup:

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## PlanK

> In Isan government schools a qualified Filipino teacher (B.Ed., if you believe the paperwork) gets about B20K per month, paid for 11 months. At the same school, a Native English Speaker TEFLer gets about B30K



Jaysus!

That was the going rate (albeit in Bangers) nearly two decades ago and life hasn't gotten cheaper since then.

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## cyrille

> That was the going rate (albeit in Bangers) nearly two decades ago


Actually, 25-30K was the going rate_ in government schools_ in 1990.  :Sad: 

This is a major reason why improving the standard of Thai staff is the only long-term way forward.

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## Shutree

> Jaysus!
> 
> That was the going rate (albeit in Bangers) nearly two decades ago and life hasn't gotten cheaper since then.


Yes, I heard of TEFLers in Isan getting 40K a decade ago. Then the non-native English teachers such as the Filipinos and French Cameroonians changed the market.

Last year a big government secondary school here hired 2 Indians. A source at the school told me they were paid B18K. A source outside the school told me that he couldn't understand them when they spoke to him in English. So this year the school has gone for teachers from a well-known agency. A total of 4 teachers at a rate to the school of about B50K per teacher per month.

It seems the funds are there when someone wants them to be there. At other times those funds just wander off. When I look at the lifestyles of certain school directors (not all) I can speculate as to where those funds might be wandering.

There are indeed many problems. They are all interwoven. It is difficult to see how they can all be fixed.

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## Shutree

> This is a major reason why improving the standard of Thai staff is the only long-term way forward.


Agreed. I have met some newly qualified Thai teachers of English and I have to say that they have very good subject knowledge, teaching skills and attitudes. Their spoken English isn't perfect but it is light years ahead of those teachers at the top of the school. The problem is that those willing and able young teachers get task-loaded beyond reason and have no choice but to grin and bear it. We can only hope that they stick with it as the old ones retire.

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## Mendip

Just to go back to the subject of the first post... today I paid the invoice for next year, the deadline is Monday to avoid a 3% per month charge... 

I was always going to of course, there's little choice in Korat and my daughter deserves an education good enough to allow her the option of living a useful life away from Thailand, if she so desires in the future.

It was good to have a moan about it first for a while... and one thing my procrastination did achieve... the worst possible exchange rate on the transfer this month. Couldn't have been worse timing.

WTF is happening to the pound now???

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## cyrille

More like WTF is there to stop the pound weakening, really. Baht is also strengthening.

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## armstrong

Look like we're back in school early June. Albeit part time.

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## Shutree

> WTF is happening to the pound now???


Transferwise gave me 38.8 today. The GBP is on a slippery slope, I don't want to guess where the bottom is.

Meanwhile, in recent weeks the THB has risen about 3%. That was after the IMF reported that Thailand had the worst economic outlook in the region. Go figure.

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## aging one

> Meanwhile, in recent weeks the THB has risen about 3%. That was after the IMF reported that Thailand had the worst economic outlook in the region. Go figure.


The articles are always behind.  The end of January this year the baht was as high as 30.08-30.22 for a few weeks.  But then it began to fall in early March going to 32.85, now it is correcting. Its going to be about 31.5 for a bit now I think.

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## Dragonfly

some rich Thai guys is playing with the THB and force a crash so he and his friends can make a killing,

just like in 1997,

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## jabir

> ...WTF is happening to the pound now???


Aw, don't get SAss started!

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## jabir

> some rich Thai guys is playing with the THB and force a crash so he and his friends can make a killing,
> 
> just like in 1997,


Will be a book and then a hit movie, how to turn dirty baht into clean $.

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## nidhogg

Back (slightly on theme) I recently paid about 80K for my sons first Uni semester.  60K tuition and 20K university costs.  As a result of the move to on line, I will get 10K of the Uni charge back.  

I really do feel for the boy.  He was so stoked to be going to Uni, and it has been hard on him to be stuck at home on line learning.  It sounds like the students are bonding - but it really, really is not the experince I was hoping he would have.

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## AntRobertson

> It sounds like the students are bonding - but it really, really is not the experince I was hoping he would have.


Yeah but it won't (hopefully) be forever.

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## cyrille

At least he's not leaving and looking for a job.  :Sad:

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## Saint Willy

> At least he's not leaving and looking for a job.


Indeed.

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## armstrong

> Back (slightly on theme) I recently paid about 80K for my sons first Uni semester.  60K tuition and 20K university costs.  As a result of the move to on line, I will get 10K of the Uni charge back.  
> 
> I really do feel for the boy.  He was so stoked to be going to Uni, and it has been hard on him to be stuck at home on line learning.  It sounds like the students are bonding - but it really, really is not the experince I was hoping he would have.


Uni is all about the social experience.  I enjoyed it so much I did an extra year...

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## AntRobertson

Our kids school have just announced a limited reopening from next week and an extended term.

They sent out a survey to parents to gauge who would / wouldn't be sending their kids back (online teaching will still continue).

The split looks to me to be about 60 / 40 in favor of not sending them back.

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## Dillinger

^ and which side are you on? :Smile: 

I'm happy for my daughter to be learning at home and me looking in and helping her, rather 5han her daydreaming through school, which she seems to like doing.

I can imagine the flip side though, with families with 3 or 4 kids under the same roof, running fukkin riot all day. My mind would change then I reckon.

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## cyrille

Or if you ever had to go to work, of course.

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## Saint Willy

> The split looks to me to be about 60 / 40 in favor of not sending them back.


Problem is, schools can offer online learning or face to face learning, but not a combination. 




> I can imagine the flip side though, with families with 3 or 4 kids running fukkin riot all day. My mind would change then I reckon.


Those are the parents bitching. Blaming the schools for their family situations.

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## cyrille

> Problem is, schools can offer online learning or face to face learning, but not a combination.


The latest update on the situation in Indonesia?

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## Saint Willy

> The latest update on the situation in Indonesia?


Indonesia is a basket case of mismanagement and don't give a fuck attitude.

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## AntRobertson

> ^ and which side are you on?


I'll be dropping them off on Wed, a public holiday, so they'll be first in line Thurs morning.  :Very Happy: 




> I'm happy for my daughter to be learning at home and me looking in and helping her, rather 5han her daydreaming through school, which she seems to like doing.


Somewhat opposite for me  I rather suspect that plenty of their study time on their laptops is spent gaming or messaging mates and they do better with structure.

Bugs me a bit they spend so long staring at screens too, both studying and leisure combined.

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## Dillinger

> Or if you ever had to go to work, of course.


Fair point, but for that, like most, I have a wife. 

Although I'd rather she went back to school  than her Mom get involved with her online classes. :Smile:

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## armstrong

We were in school today getting ready for the kids to come in part time on Monday. Half online/half in school.

But the government said no. So it's back to online for next week.

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## AntRobertson

> But the government said no.


Interesting... Our kids school was preparing to do the same based on a govt. direction earlier this week they could.

Is it just for your area that you know of or have they changed the whole thing?

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## armstrong

> Interesting... Our kids school was preparing to do the same based on a govt. direction earlier this week they could.
> 
> Is it just for your area that you know of or have they changed the whole thing?

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## armstrong

So, every international school I *think*.

But there are rumours some in BKK still plan on opening up but the news was pretty late in.

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## AntRobertson

Jeeez... Starting to feel for the school admins etc. how the fuck do they make plans around that sort of constantly shifting direction

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## jabir

Gov schools were supposed to open, teachers called in to prepare with measures of the day, then last I heard they got the next two weeks off because nobody has a clue what ministerial diktats are going to look like hour by hour.

As I said before, military should stick to what they do best, march to drums and beat up political opponents.

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## Neverna

^ July 1st for government schools in Thailand, Jabir. 


That's the last I heard, anyway.

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## Mendip

My daughter's school put out a questionnaire this week asking how parents felt about their kids going back to school if they are allowed to open. I have no idea what the feeling is but it certainly got the parents talking on the school Line group.

My daughter's school year ends towards the end of June and the last two weeks of term will be exam weeks. Personally I can't really see the point in opening just for maybe a week of tuition and think they may as well leave it until the end of August and the new school year.

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## AntRobertson

Exactly same scenario as with us save for they also decided to extend the term.

The poor admin guy who sent the emails out was obviously being harried and inundated with responses (for and against) and started sending them at odd times like 5:30. Poor bastard probably losing sleep over it. 

 :rofl:

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## AntRobertson

Snap... Literally just received email from the school now saying it's off

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## cyrille

> Personally I can't really see the point in opening just for maybe a week of tuition and think they may as well leave it until the end of August and the new school year.


This it what I was thinking about schools reopening at this time. There seems little point. Also schools in S. Korea are closing after being open for a very short time because there has been a spike in infections.

Just seems not worth the upheaval when the term is drawing to a close anyway.

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## armstrong

For our circumstances, with 4 weeks left just to have the kids in part time would be amazing.  Not really for any academic reasons but for their mental health and a good finish to a tough year.  

Also, I'm pretty sick of my house.

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## Saint Willy

> For our circumstances, with 4 weeks left just to have the kids in part time would be amazing.  Not really for any academic reasons but for their mental health and a good finish to a tough year.  
> .



There is that.

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## Mendip

Just had notification that my daughter's international school is to re-open next Wednesday (June 17th). There must have been some new directive from the MoE?

It seems a bit pointless to me, as the school year ends at the end of the following week (Fri 26th). The last two weeks of term are assessments/exams, and that seems to be all they are opening for... but the daughter's excited about seeing her friends again, so it's all good I guess.

Must admit it will be a real shock getting up at 6am Wed morning in order to battle through the Korat rush our traffic again... I've got quite used to my morning commute walking down the stairs to the kitchen.

In all fairness, after my initial moan about the lack of refund/reduction in school fees during this Clovid19 closure, the school has been very good and performed well during a situation that was not of their making. The online lessons have gone well, and when I called into the school the other day, the full compliment of nannies, security, office staff etc were all working away and have set up all the social distancing measures they can (and good luck with that!).

They have three weeks of summer school in July/August to help the kids catch up, which is for free this year (usually about 1000 Baht per day) so they do seem to be making the effort. I'd normally not put my daughter in to summer school as I like her to have a complete break, but everything is different this year and I'll put her in mainly so she can catch up with her mates, let alone for the academic side.

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## armstrong

Yep kids back in part time on Monday after school apparently passed an inspection. 2 weeks of term left so will only really see the kids for 5 days.

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## Dillinger

Over here all the teachers are back  at  school, instead of working from their homes now. No students are allowed in.
Good idea to use those teachers as Guinea pigs first I reckon :Smile:

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## Mendip

^ You're gonna struggle having three meals a day in bed once the kids are allowed back to school mate!

Do you worry that your daughter's going to lose her Thai when getting educated in Malaysia? When I lived in Kuantan I had a good mate, married to a Thai and with two kids. They went to school in Penang and despite being Thai couldn't write a word and didn't speak fluently.

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## Dillinger

> Do you worry that your daughter's going to lose her Thai when getting educated in Malaysia?


Her mom speaks to her in Thai.

Fuck knows what they're talking about but they look over at me funny sometimes :Smile:

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## Dillinger

> You're gonna struggle having three meals a day in bed once the kids are allowed back to school mate!


I'll have a lot more time to myself and to get back in bed. The schools only a 5 minute cycle away.

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## Saint Willy

Even if the kids only return for a week or two, it's good socialisation, and a good check in before returning to school next year. I'd be all up for that.





> They have three weeks of summer school in July/August to help the kids catch up, which is for free this year (usually about 1000 Baht per day) so they do seem to be making the effort.




Someone is paying for that, perhaps the school, perhaps the teachers.

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## Dillinger

> Someone is paying for that, perhaps the school, perhaps the teachers.


Nah, it'll be the parents.

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## jabir

^ Nev

Confirmed 1st July for gov schools.

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