#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  My Thai Daughter

## Storekeeper

My daughter has now been attending an American elementary school here in Japan for 8 months. She started the 2nd grade in September and didn't speak English at all. Not even a, "Good morning" ! The first 6 months she seemed to be doing OK even though I had hoped for better. She was picking up vocabulary and could even fool some that she understood more than she did. But I knew the comprehension really wasn't behind the words yet. Then suddenly ... POW ! I started to notice about 2 months ago that she was "responding" to things I was telling her. Then she started bringing home completed spelling tests with nearly perfect results when it seemed like just the week before I was beating my head in trying to get her to spell a single word right. And to top it off I finally noticed she can sound out words by herself with only a little help from me. I haven't really been helping her much ... just trying to be patient while the immersion in the school and teaching her the basics took hold. Looks like it's time for me to take it up a notch for the last 10 months we're going to be here. Damn I'm proud of this kid  :Smile:

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## kingwilly

excellent to hear!

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## Storekeeper

We'll be moving back to Thailand next March and she'll be going to the 4th grade. I'm going to go to one of the English teaching certification courses even if I only ever end up teaching English but to her. I'm also planning to supplement her schooling with "Home-schooling" in a couple of other subjects. We went to the library to get some books and I've started reading to her every night. When I was a young boy I fell in love with the "Black Stallion" series so I'm planning to buy the entire series and read her every single book. I was getting ready to dump all the books and flash cards I had for when I studied Japanese but I'm planning to keep them now and start her on Japanese language when she gets to high school.

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## Eliminator

SK, you could also check out the possibility of teaching Japanese to Thais, might be a money maker for you.

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## Storekeeper

> SK, you could also check out the possibility of teaching Japanese to Thais, might be a money maker for you.


Check your repo for my reply.

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## kingwilly

> We'll be moving back to Thailand next March and she'll be going to the 4th grade. I'm going to go to one of the English teaching certification courses even if I only ever end up teaching English but to her. I'm also planning to supplement her schooling with "Home-schooling" in a couple of other subjects. We went to the library to get some books and I've started reading to her every night. When I was a young boy I fell in love with the "Black Stallion" series so I'm planning to buy the entire series and read her every single book. I was getting ready to dump all the books and flash cards I had for when I studied Japanese but I'm planning to keep them now and start her on Japanese language when she gets to high school.


homeschooling is good but one of the main disadvantages is lack of socialization - but since you say this is a supplement to her education - then all the better

reading is SO important ! at every level and every subject ! i do despair at the fact that so many thai's read almost nothing! 

sounds like she'll do well - just be careful you do not overdo the dad helping/pushign the education thing - you dont want to cause friction btwn you either!

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## Marmite the Dog

I know what you mean Sailor Boy. Some of my kids that I tutor come to Thailand with virtually no English skills. After about 6 months you look back and the advancement is incredible. 

One girl who has been here a year now has gone from very, very basic to studying the Illiad in that time. It's amazing what kids are capable of.

Good luck with the little one and if she manages to take English, Japanese & Thai with her into adulthood it will give her a massive advantage when choosing a career.

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## barbaro

> My daughter has now been attending an American elementary school here in Japan for 8 months. She started the 2nd grade in September and didn't speak English at all. Not even a, "Good morning" ! The first 6 months she seemed to be doing OK even though I had hoped for better. She was picking up vocabulary and could even fool some that she understood more than she did. But I knew the comprehension really wasn't behind the words yet. Then suddenly ... POW ! I started to notice about 2 months ago that she was "responding" to things I was telling her. Then she started bringing home completed spelling tests with nearly perfect results when it seemed like just the week before I was beating my head in trying to get her to spell a single word right. And to top it off I finally noticed she can sound out words by herself with only a little help from me. I haven't really been helping her much ... just trying to be patient while the immersion in the school and teaching her the basics took hold. Looks like it's time for me to take it up a notch for the last 10 months we're going to be here. Damn I'm proud of this kid


As stated, young kids can acquire language very quickly.

Her listening was also far above her speaking because of hearing you, and other.

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## peterpan

My daughters aged 4 and nearly 2 love this interactive learning site, its brilliant ! and free although I have made a donation to them. 
http://www.starfall.com/

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## qwerty

Thai schools are are pretty good for some things, but I would definitely recommend supplementing your girl's education with some home schooling!

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## Storekeeper

I don't drink (very little), or chase skirts and might not do any TEFLing ... so keeping the the little lass busy should be fun for both of us. We fight like brother and sister even though I'm 36 years older than her  :Razz:  And her Mom freaks out cause she thinks we're always getting ready to kill each other.  :Wink:

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## aging one

I home school my kids in English and it works well. Because English is their first language they have no trouble with grammar.  Spelling is what we work on the most.  

They do prefer to read and write in Thai, but the English is coming.  I put them in my ENG 103 class at Uni, and they are getting the top scores with the final to be done a week today.  

3 or 4 hours a week of spelling and US history and they should be fine.  They love geography and their globe is a favored toy.

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## Storekeeper

Thanks to you to AO ... I'm looking forward to what hits this thread tonight when I open it tomorrow. 
(Time to go watch some Sumo for now)

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## Eliminator

Sk, I was thinking you could teaching business people or even uni level to speak some conversational Japanese. I'm pretty sure it's a big respect thing for the Japanese.

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## egeefay

Kids seem to have the ability to absorb foreign languages quickly.
It's a shame Thailand doesn't spend as much time teaching English to children as they do to older high school kids.
By the time they are that age its twice as hard to pick up a foreign language.

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## MeMock

> homeschooling is good but one of the main disadvantages is lack of socialization


Only if you want it that way.

my closest friend home schools her 4 children but she actively organised a group of other local home schoolers and now they have a group of about 10 different families who meet all the time for different activites. The along with things like swimming lessons, junior cricket, netball and church and these kids and the other home schooling kids that I have met are way out in front in their social skills then kids who attend the local school.

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## barbaro

> Kids seem to have the ability to absorb foreign languages quickly.
> It's a shame Thailand doesn't spend as much time teaching English to children as they do to older high school kids.
> By the time they are that age its twice as hard to pick up a foreign language.


Yup.

It's been proven.  The younger a person is the more ability their brains has to acquire a second or third language.

All language (school) probrams should have 4 year olds singing songs, and learning verbs and nouns.

I have a lot of adult student who technically are advanced, but they are so jealous of their kids that go to Internation schools, because their kids pronunciation is so much better: word stress, linking, certain sounds etc.

In the U.S. I took my first Spanish course at 14 when it was first available to take.  How stupid!

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## Camel Toe

My daughter is four and very good at English.  As a matter of fact she posted here two times and got torched.  I doubt she'll be back.  She's trolling on ajarn these days, has a post count at about 250.  Just about everyone over there thinks she's Harry.

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## Niteowl

> My daughter is four and very good at English. As a matter of fact she posted here two times and got torched. I doubt she'll be back. She's trolling on ajarn these days, has a post count at about 250. Just about everyone over there thinks she's Harry.


I post on ajarn, and can see how Harry could be confused with a four year old. 
 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## kingwilly

> Originally Posted by egeefay
> 
> 
> Kids seem to have the ability to absorb foreign languages quickly.
> It's a shame Thailand doesn't spend as much time teaching English to children as they do to older high school kids.
> By the time they are that age its twice as hard to pick up a foreign language.
> 
> 
> Yup.
> ...


i'm not quite sure that's true....

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## Camel Toe

> Originally Posted by Milkman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by egeefay
> ...


Who proved it was a six year old girl who was literally lock up in some sort of closet until she was discovered by a neighbor, I think.  She was sent to a language learning school but never learned to speak.   This was at the time psychology was new, about 1930 something if I remember.  It was determined after they poked and prodded something about the language receptors will shut down and never recover at the age of six, if the child never exercises them.   Then too a child is in high gear up to that age.  It's easy for them to fathom an object can have many names. What do they know one name is from Asia and another from England, one is what dad calls it and one is what mum calls it.  At what age do you think a kid throws his head back and shouts, Hot damn! I live in a bilingual family!?

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## kingwilly

that doesnt 'prove' anything.....

and regarding bilingual families, evidence suggests that it is best that each parent speak the one language only, so that the child is able to discern which words 'belong' to which language.

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## Storekeeper

Update:

First I'll bring you to up to speed. I got married back in 2004 and brought my 6 year old Thai step-daughter to Japan in 2005 to attend the U.S. schools on base. And at the time she spoke not a smidgen of English. So she attended 2nd and 3rd grade at Sullivan's Elementary school and then we moved back to Thailand. She attended the first semester of 4th grade at Phichit Inter and the second semester at some cheesy school in Ban Phe, Rayong. Then we moved to Pattaya where she attended P5 and P6 at BEST Burapa. From there back to Japan for 7th and 8th grade at Yokosuka Middle School on base. From there we moved to the states where she went to the 9th and 10th grades at Bremerton High School. And finally back to Japan for 11th and 12th grades at Nile Kinnick High.

So now she's in the university application process and I'm in the same shoes AO was in last year. 

This is the point where anybody who wants to offer up advice ... I'm all ears.

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## Neverna

No advice, but I'm interested in how she feels/felt changing schools so often (7 schools in 11 years?). 

And how did it affect her academically?

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## Storekeeper

> No advice, but I'm interested in how she feels/felt changing schools so often (7 schools in 11 years?). 
> 
> And how did it affect her academically?


The only move she complained about was the last one moving from Bremerton back to Japan. As far as academics go she has a combined 3.35 GPA. She probably would have been closer to 3.5 had we stayed in the states.

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## Bower

Green'd you for the OP not realising it was an old thread.
Thanks for update, good luck to her.

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## david44

Good Luck, International travel is all part of education in my opinion

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## Storekeeper

I guess the application deadline for the University of Washington is tomorrow. Guess who was working on her application last night?

So it looks like we will play the cards like this ... She will apply to the University of Washington, Washington State and Gonzaga. And going to school in WA state is her preference. I've found several schools in other states that will cost me much less. I'll probably push her to apply to Youngstown State University, Minot State University and one other.

I want to walk away from this debt free in 4 years so ... Would I be wrong to insist she go to a cheaper school? To me a BSN is a BSN no matter who gives you the degree.

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## AntRobertson

> To me a BSN is a BSN no matter who gives you the degree


Sorry, maybe a dumb question or I've missed something, but what's a BSN?

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## thaimeme

> I guess the application deadline for the University of Washington is tomorrow. Guess who was working on her application last night?
> 
> So it looks like we will play the cards like this ... She will apply to the University of Washington, Washington State and Gonzaga. And going to school in WA state is her preference. I've found several schools in other states that will cost me much less. I'll probably push her to apply to Youngstown State University, Minot State University and one other.
> 
> I want to walk away from this debt free in 4 years so ... Would I be wrong to insist she go to a cheaper school? To me a BSN is a BSN no matter who gives you the degree.


I believe one might receive an excellent value for your dollar at UW, Keeper...
Well renowned faculties.

Might be worth the go.

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## Storekeeper

> Originally Posted by Storekeeper  To me a BSN is a BSN no matter who gives you the degree    Sorry, maybe a dumb question or I've missed something, but what's a BSN?


Bachelor of Science in Nursing




> I believe one might receive an excellent value for your dollar at UW, Keeper...
> Well renowned faculties. 
> Might be worth the go.


Agree that UW's nursing program is highly prestigious and various annual rankings prove it. But, dang ... even with in-state tuition rates I'm looking at probably $25K more over 4 years than cheaper out-of-state alternatives.

By the way ... IMHO ... It's more likely her high school resume will get her into Washington State than UW.

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by Storekeeper
> 
> To me a BSN is a BSN no matter who gives you the degree
> 
> 
> Sorry, maybe a dumb question or I've missed something, but what's a BSN?


Bachelor of Science in Nursing I believe.

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## aging one

> Agree that UW's nursing program is highly prestigious and various annual rankings prove it. But, dang ... even with in-state tuition rates I'm looking at probably $25K more over 4 years than cheaper out-of-state alternatives.


Get ready to suck it up and spend money. Hell I bet the dorms are going to run you a thousand bucks a month for a double or triple, then add on a meal plan and spending money. I hope you can do it debt free. Its a struggle trust me.

At least you only have one.   :Smile:

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## Storekeeper

> Get ready to suck it up and spend money. Hell I bet the dorms are going to run you a thousand bucks a month for a double or triple, then add on a meal plan and spending money.


This is what I'm looking at for WSU and it doesn't even include all the extra fees associated with a nursing program:

Tuition  $10,916  
Mandatory Fees  $1,050  
Housing (Room)  $6,872*  $6,872 (range: $6,430-$10,118)* 
Dining (Board)  $4,002*  $4,002 (range: $3,568-$4,498)* 
TOTAL COST  $22,840**  

*  An average of all traditional on-campus undergraduate housing and dining. Costs vary by residence hall/lease and meal plan.

** In addition to these costs, we recommend that you include about $960 for books, $2,108 for miscellaneous expenses, and $1,434 for transportation.

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## Storekeeper

Look how much cheaper it would be to go to Minot State University:


Undergraduate Students

Annual tuition & fees $6,390.24 
Residence Halls $1,980 
Unlimited Meal Plan $3,636 
Total Annual Costs $12,006.24* 

That's a $40K savings for me.

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## terry57

Jesus,

One would be pissed off if the Kid did not pass or complete the course.   :Confused: 

Crazy money right there.

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## aging one

Washington dorms are less than half the price of California in the UC system, they get you every way they can. If you have a skype number send it to me and we can talk.

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## Storekeeper

> Jesus,
> 
> One would be pissed off if the Kid did not pass or complete the course.  
> 
> Crazy money right there.


Terry you've nailed one of my concerns. 

Changing majors could be another problem.

And ... I have two sons who will be watching to see if she gets her wings clipped if she stumbles like they did.

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## Loy Toy

Good luck to your daughter mate and she does have a very caring old man.

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## terry57

^ ^

I worked with two young guys who were educated in the best Private school in Perth.

Huge fees involved.

When I asked them what their fathers said to them about becoming Firefighters after they had parted with so much money they said....

Old man recons as long as I'm happy that's OK.

So many parents struggle to gain high education for their kids.

One would hope they excel in some high flying endeavor.

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## Storekeeper

> Good luck to your daughter mate and she does have a very caring old man.


Due to my Navy career I wasn't a very good parent to my sons. So she was my one last chance to see if I could be a proper parent. Still made a lot of mistakes but so far she has succeeded despite me ...  :Smile: 

Hadn't planned on this in the beginning. I thought we would just leave her in Thailand and send money back to send her to school there. But I've never regretted my wife changing the plan and bringing her to live with us.

It's been an interesting journey watching her learn to speak English in the beginning to now being totally fluent in two languages. One of the Brit teachers at Burapa said her English is perfect except for sounding like a Yank.

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## Yemen

Storekeeper- my daughter graduated UND ( University North Dakota ). Good school and reasonably priced, not the most prestigous but good value.

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## Storekeeper

> Storekeeper- my daughter graduated UND ( University North Dakota ). Good school and reasonably priced, not the most prestigous but good value.


Thanks for that. Yep, North and South Dakota offer the cheapest alternatives out of the entire USA pretty much.

The reason I favor Minot State University is because it's very near the Air Force base. That means I don't have to buy separate medical and dental insurance for my daughter as she'll be able to use the base.

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## crocman

Say what you will about the cost of living in Australia but Christ I'm glad my kids got their education here. My son is about to complete his PhD in physics which under the HECS scheme has set him back around $8000 in total from the start of his initial Bsc till completion of his doctorate.

My daughter is to start her Masters in science next year and the costs are around the same.

Fortunately we started funds for both of them when each was born which has meant that they have not had to travel the road of the "broke arsed" student. They both have reasonable cars and travel quite often.

The amount of work you have put into raising your daughter and the results you are getting should make you feel very proud.

All of us can only give our children the very best we are able to, after that it is up to them.

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## Jesus Jones

Phonics is the key.  My daughter has been able to read from the age of 2.5.  She has just turned 3 and is reading sentences with sight words.

I am not into applications but she loves one called 'Endless reader' which teaches phonics, sight words and sentences.  Has some fun characters to keep them entertained too.

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## Storekeeper

This the current list of schools she'll be applying to:

University of Washington, Washington State University, Gonzaga University, Ashland University, Youngstown State University, West Texas A & M University, Minot State University and University of Pennsylvania.

That covers the states of Washington, North Dakota, Ohio and Texas.

The list includes 1-2 schools considered a "stretch" to get in, and 1-2 schools that should be a lock to get in.

One school is also a "direct admit" for the BSN program.

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## aging one

U of Pen would be her reach school right? :Smile:

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## Storekeeper

> U of Pen would be her reach school right?


Yes, but IMHO the UW is a reach school as well. Out of all the Ivy league schools Penn has the largest student body. So it should have a larger freshman class.

Did you see this AO:

Why It's So Hard for In-State Students to Get Into a UC?and even California State?School These Days - The Atlantic

*“Students need to be virtually perfect to get a spot at the University of California.”
*
Won't post the entire link here but it shows just how difficult it was for your twins to land spots.

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## PeeCoffee

Storekeeper...isn't the tuition at WSU less if she's considered a resident of Washington...like when she lived in Bremerton ? 
Did the move back to Japan negate her "in state" status ?

Possibly she'd be considered a resident by moving and working in Washington State for one year and then applying for college. (Any family or friends she could board with there ?)
Job opportunities are booming in the Seattle area now with USD 15.oo minimum wage.

If that tuition amount was for in-state residents, then I'm sorry. 
I'm just happy that my kids attended State schools from 1998 - 2012. Then again, along with a divorce I'm quite _pared down_. 
Maybe that's exactly why I'm living in Thailand and not working the grind. 

Assuredly her life will be blissful at WSU compared to Minot, ND...wouldn't you agree ? It's away from the big city, a real agricultural country feel bordering Idaho
with a very strong sense of fraternity among the students.
Every Coug I ever met loved WSU - Washington State's 'blue collar' school. Indeed they have a tremendous Veterinary program too.

In the end as hard as it sounds , "Honey, this is all the money that your Mom and I can put together for four years...the choice will be ----- ".

It's your money after all (IMHO) or she can apply for student loans to cover the outstanding balance (and you've read how that program can go).

Good luck, SK.

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## Storekeeper

> If that tuition amount was for in-state residents, then I'm sorry.


Yep, that's the in-state tuition rate and she does qualify in-state tuition rates.




> Assuredly her life will be blissful at WSU compared to Minot, ND...wouldn't you agree ?


Yes, it would and she has friends already at WSU or going to WSU. I'd feel very comfortable with her going there. By the way for the nursing degree she would have to move to Spokane for the last two years. Same campus as Gonzaga. 

Also, my future job may be in Mechanicsburg, PA ... so her mother will require she go to one of the schools closer to where we'll be if that's the case.

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## Black Heart

> This is what I'm looking at for WSU and it doesn't even include all the extra fees associated with a nursing program:
> 
> TOTAL COST  $22,840**


22,800K x 4 years = $89,000 USD in total?

I read the whole thread. Interesting development of your daughter, SK.

I'm interested in what school she'll attend. 

Is she firm on Nursing? You mentioned she could change majors.

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## Storekeeper

> I read the whole thread. Interesting development of your daughter, SK. 
> I'm interested in what school she'll attend.  
> Is she firm on Nursing? You mentioned she could change majors.


She's already had a life nobody back in Taphan Hin could have imagined for her and she still has a long way to go. Yes, I think she's firm on nursing.

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## beerlaodrinker

Bloody interesting thread  store keeper, my nippers are 4 and 8  go to an international school  and have to get there head around speaking 2 languages Lao and English  the oldest boy speaks perfect English and Lao but struggles to write it it, fair enough I reckon, the 5 year old will pick it up at I own pace I guess, My Lao relatives have kids that don't get home from school until 9 at night because they are enrolled in English language study, parents aren't rich or hiso by any means  but fuk I've got to take my hat of to them in investing in the kids future , mind you they run a business with a view to the kids taking over, kinda traditional and very Asian way.

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## Storekeeper

> Bloody interesting thread  store keeper, my nippers are 4 and 8  go to an international school  and have to get there head around speaking 2 languages Lao and English  the oldest boy speaks perfect English and Lao but struggles to write it it, fair enough I reckon, the 5 year old will pick it up at I own pace I guess, My Lao relatives have kids that don't get home from school until 9 at night because they are enrolled in English language study, parents aren't rich or hiso by any means  but fuk I've got to take my hat of to them in investing in the kids future , mind you they run a business with a view to the kids taking over, kinda traditional and very Asian way.


beerlaodrinker thanks for the post and reminds me that by the time we moved back to Thailand in 2007 my step-daughter had forgotten how to write Thai. When we moved to Pattaya I enrolled her in after school Thai language studies to get her writing up to speed. There were two Filipina girls her age in that extra class who I described to my daughter as the rabbits. They were the smartest kids in her grade level and they were the ones she would chase to get the best grades overall in all subjects.

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## Storekeeper

Proud day ... My step-daughter got an acceptance letter from Washington State University for fall 2016. Had to control the tears of joy when I opened the letter at work today.

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## aging one

> Proud day ... My step-daughter got an acceptance letter from Washington State University for fall 2016. Had to control the tears of joy when I opened the letter at work today.


So Happy for you SK!!! We have been talking about this for years. You were so happy for mine last year. I do believe that Washington state was hers and your first choice. Super happy for the whole Storekeeper family but most of all.. The young nurse to be. Cheers...

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## Storekeeper

> Originally Posted by Storekeeper
> 
> Proud day ... My step-daughter got an acceptance letter from Washington State University for fall 2016. Had to control the tears of joy when I opened the letter at work today.
> 
> 
> So Happy for you SK!!! We have been talking about this for years. You were so happy for mine last year. I do believe that Washington state was hers and your first choice. Super happy for the whole Storekeeper family but most of all.. The young nurse to be. Cheers...


I had secretly hoped mine might end up with yours in the same place possibly back when they were all still middle schoolers.

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## Davis Knowlton

Well done to all!

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## BaitongBoy

Great news, SK...I can tell that you are all very proud...Well done...

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## Storekeeper

> Great news, SK...I can tell that you are all very proud...Well done...


She was feeling a bit stressed the past few days wondering what school she would get into after finding out one of her best and long time friends, a half Japanese/half American girl, got into the Air Force Academy.

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## Black Heart

Good news for her and you, SK!

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## Neverna

Congratulations to your step-daughter, Storekeeper.

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## beerlaodrinker

Fantastic result storekeeper , that's what it's all about eh, seeing your kids achieve

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## rickschoppers

WASU is a great school and congratulations to you and your daughter.

As for the BSN degree, I can tell you it matters not where one is obtained due to a continual nusing shortage. My ex-wife is a 2 year (attended a 2 year nursing program) new born intensive care nurse and she made more money than I did as a pharmacist at times. The BSN does allow the nurse to become a supervisor and sometimes nursing manager within most hospitals if that is their interest. Many go on to gain their MSN and become Directors of Nursing. At one hospital where I was Director of Pharmacy, my boss had a MSN and went on to become the CEO of the hospital.

Endless opportunity if you have a nursing degree and if you like to travel, there are many opportunities overseas as well. I met my ex-wife while we were both working in a hospital in Saudi Arabia. The options are endless, so I hope she sticks with it.

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## Yemen

Great news for your family Storekeeper.

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## crepitas

Ain't it nice when your kids succeed..good stuff..makes it all worthwhile.
My twin boys are adults  uni/college etc. the one is a Canadian cop the other first class cabin crew with Emirates. Their happiness is all that matters methinks. 
Thai step daughter is an IT college graduate yet currently working as a chef in a farang restaurant..... she is now taking a Thai massage registration certificate to move to Germany and work at SIL's very up market and profitable shop (SIL's German hubby is a doctor)... go figure. Their life hey?

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## Storekeeper

My Thai step-daughter got accepted into another school ... Youngstown State University with a $5000 a year scholarship and it's automatically renewed as long as the GPA stays above 3.00 ...  :Smile:  ... so $20,000 basically.

Cost of this 4 year investment is looking better and better for me ...  :bananaman:

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## chassamui

Well done that girl, and same to you for all the planning and support.

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## PeeCoffee

Seconded. Congratulations to your daughter.

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## Black Heart

> My Thai step-daughter got accepted into another school ... Youngstown State University with a $5000 a year scholarship and it's automatically renewed as long as the GPA stays above 3.00 ...  ... so $20,000 basically.
> 
> Cost of this 4 year investment is looking better and better for me ...


So, she's choosing Youngstown for now?

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## Loy Toy

> My Thai step-daughter got accepted into another school ... Youngstown State University with a $5000 a year scholarship and it's automatically renewed as long as the GPA stays above 3.00 ...  ... so $20,000 basically.


Great news mate...........your a great Dad!

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## aging one

> My Thai step-daughter got accepted into another school ... Youngstown State University with a $5000 a year scholarship and it's automatically renewed as long as the GPA stays above 3.00 ... ... so $20,000 basically.  Cost of this 4 year investment is looking better and better for me ...


Super, keep her away from California where the cost of living is a killer. $30,000 a year for twins with food, rent or dorms, books, phones, winter clothes, and odds and ends. Then the uni fees come on top of that.

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## Bogon

> GPA stays above 3.00


That is a "B Grade" average.

As long as she knuckles down and does what the lecturers ask, she should be OK.

Well done that BTW, I would be as proud as hell if that was my daughter.

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## Storekeeper

I'll tell you this is really tough ... She wants to got to UW or WSU ... She does not want to go to Youngstown State.

But ... no matter what at this point Youngstown State is going to be several thousand dollars a year cheaper.

What do you do as a parent ... and in my case a step-parent ... when one school offers the opportunity to be debt free in 4 years and the others are likely to put you in debt?

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## Davis Knowlton

^Two years in Youngstown State and then once she's got Basic Studies out of the way, transfer to WSU for last two years?

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## Storekeeper

If we did that it would be better if she went to Olympic College in WA state for their RN program and then transferred to UW or WSU for their BSN program.

Guess we should consider it. Personally I'd rather she go to YSU for the 4 years experience.

----------


## Norton

> What do you do as a parent


Come up with a way to get her to insist Youngstown is her choice.

Subliminal messages should work.

Good luck.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> If we did that it would be better if she went to Olympic College in WA state for their RN program and then transferred to UW or WSU for their BSN program.
> 
> Guess we should consider it. Personally I'd rather she go to YSU for the 4 years experience.


All about the money. As AO is finding out. Mate of mine said rough it out at tuition + meal plan and dorm + books + another 10K per twin per year and you're getting in the ball park.

----------


## Storekeeper

> ^Two years in Youngstown State and then once she's got Basic Studies out of the way, transfer to WSU for last two years?


Well, if we went that route it would probably be better for her to go to Olympic College in WA state for her two year RN degree and then transfer to either UW or WSU for the BSN.

I guess that could be an option too. Thanks.

----------


## Storekeeper

Sorry about that. Missed the two follow up posts.

----------


## MrG

> My Thai step-daughter got accepted into another school ... Youngstown State University with a $5000 a year scholarship and it's automatically renewed as long as the GPA stays above 3.00 ...  ... so $20,000 basically.
> 
> Cost of this 4 year investment is looking better and better for me ...


Not to take away anything from her hard work, but good job Storekeeper. You're a successful man.

----------


## Luigi

> My Lao relatives have kids that don't get home from school until 9 at night because they are enrolled in English language study, parents aren't rich or hiso by any means  but fuk I've got to take my hat of to them in investing in the kids future , mind you they run a business with a view to the kids taking over, kinda traditional and very Asian way.


One thing that I've noticed is that when I'm in Cambodia or Laos I see the groundfloor of town houses open and young kids in there studying maths or science or English with a teacher in the evenings. Especially in Cambodia where it's almost every second townhouse is a place of learning in the evening. 

All happy and interested, respecting and understanding that it's beneficial to their future.


I've never seen it in Thailand, where of course all Thais know everything and need to learn nothing because they and He the Genius are so great and Godlike in their cocoon of Thailand. 

Thailand, Burma, Laos and Cambodia is going to be interesting region in 20-30 years time.

----------


## Storekeeper

> Originally Posted by Storekeeper
> 
> 
> If we did that it would be better if she went to Olympic College in WA state for their RN program and then transferred to UW or WSU for their BSN program.
> 
> Guess we should consider it. Personally I'd rather she go to YSU for the 4 years experience.
> 
> 
> All about the money. As AO is finding out. Mate of mine said rough it out at tuition + meal plan and dorm + books + another 10K per twin per year and you're getting in the ball park.


Last last night after reading back into this thread I remembered AO told me a while back basically that reason wasn't going to work ... like his case my wife and daughter are going to do whatever they want to do no matter what I say. So it's going to be UW or WSU no matter the sweet deal YSU offered.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

"He who pays, rules"

----------


## aging one

> like his case my wife and daughter are going to do whatever they want to do no matter what I say. So it's going to be UW or WSU no matter the sweet deal YSU offered.





> "He who pays, rules"


All I ever got through tears, sulking, and various other forms of crap was. American is a democracy, you are always going on about democracy. Well 3 of us say UC System. You are the only one saying state college system. 

Mine turned down scholarship money from Claremont McKenna which pissed me off as well. Now that its all done I am hurting. But "Where there is a will there is a way". I/We have made it this far.

----------


## jimbobs

You have give me food for thought but I skyped my mob before the girls have their mates dancing in the living room
The young lads are going nuts on the trampoline outside the old ones are eating in the kitchen the air con is drowning in the background
They are happy as fuck
I can't give them that in the UK
It's a nice life for a Thai if you have money friends and food
Simply perfect for them
If they have a brain between them they can come to this rat race in the UK
If not papa will provide

----------


## Storekeeper

> Originally Posted by Storekeeper
> 
>  like his case my wife and daughter are going to do whatever they want to do no matter what I say. So it's going to be UW or WSU no matter the sweet deal YSU offered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One thing I've failed to mention is it's as clear as day on the WSU website that they require all applicants to apply by January 31, 2016 on a single link for over 700 various scholarships ... of course somebody missed it. 

For now we're  basically in a holding pattern to see if UW accepts her ... I'd sure as hell be proud if she got accepted but at the same time it's the most expensive of the bunch.

----------


## aging one

How did filling out the FAFSA go for you? I dread it every year. Next year no damn last minute shit.

----------


## Storekeeper

> How did filling out the FAFSA go for you? I dread it every year. Next year no damn last minute shit.


I filled it out online and haven't heard anything else about it from her. Supposedly based on the FAFSA WSU was supposed to mail out something mid-March detailing any assistance she's entitled to.

----------


## beerlaodrinker

> I'll tell you this is really tough ... She wants to got to UW or WSU ... She does not want to go to Youngstown State.
> 
> But ... no matter what at this point Youngstown State is going to be several thousand dollars a year cheaper.
> 
> What do you do as a parent ... and in my case a step-parent ... when one school offers the opportunity to be debt free in 4 years and the others are likely to put you in debt?


Your a good man

----------


## Storekeeper

My girl got her first rejection notice. She wasn't accepted into the University of Washington. The school mentioned in their letter that 53,000 applied and only 6,500 were accepted.

So, Washington State University it will be and the application story ends there. Gotta get scheduled for a 2.5 day orientation in July, move into the dormitory on 16 August and classes start the 22nd.

----------


## beerlaodrinker

Ah, that's a bummer, but at least she will be in school. Even though not the one she wanted

----------


## Storekeeper

^ I don't know what's going on inside her head but the rejection letter was a good lesson for her. You don't always get what you want.

----------


## Black Heart

Well, good on her, going to WSU.

Yes, Youngstown would have been cheaper but....decisions can be different.

She could (I assume) take out some of the cost with her own FAFSA loan if necessary.

----------


## Storekeeper

> She could (I assume) take out some of the cost with her own FAFSA loan if necessary.


This is something I know very little about and have concerns because she is not a US citizen. Can green card holding resident aliens get these student loans? Do I have to co-sign?

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> She could (I assume) take out some of the cost with her own FAFSA loan if necessary.
> 
> 
> This is something I know very little about and have concerns because she is not a US citizen. Can green card holding resident aliens get these student loans? Do I have to co-sign?


OK, I assume she was a US citizen.

I have not idea, but I know of a thread on FAFSA that is very good.

I'll check there (another forum).

Edit in:

From the Dept. of Education: 

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/eligibi...on-us-citizens

----------


## Storekeeper

^ Thanks I'll take some time to read that later tonight or tomorrow.

----------


## MrG

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> She could (I assume) take out some of the cost with her own FAFSA loan if necessary.
> 
> 
> This is something I know very little about and have concerns because she is not a US citizen. Can green card holding resident aliens get these student loans? Do I have to co-sign?


You might consider contacting the College Student Loan Officer. I know from experience that these people know tricks and sources of loans/scholarships etc that the average bear doesn't, and they can be quite helpful.

----------


## Dillinger

> One thing that I've noticed is that when I'm in Cambodia or Laos I see the groundfloor of town houses open and young kids in there studying maths or science or English with a teacher in the evenings. Especially in Cambodia where it's almost every second townhouse is a place of learning in the evening.  All happy and interested, respecting and understanding that it's beneficial to their future.   I've never seen it in Thailand, where of course all Thais know everything and need to learn nothing because they and He the Genius are so great and Godlike in their cocoon of Thailand.


That's a bit unfair. I've seen loads of Thai kids sitting in that Japanese bookstore in Emquartier crosslegged on the floor reading English books. Great to see.

----------


## Storekeeper

> Originally Posted by Luigi
> 
> One thing that I've noticed is that when I'm in Cambodia or Laos I see the groundfloor of town houses open and young kids in there studying maths or science or English with a teacher in the evenings. Especially in Cambodia where it's almost every second townhouse is a place of learning in the evening.  All happy and interested, respecting and understanding that it's beneficial to their future.   I've never seen it in Thailand, where of course all Thais know everything and need to learn nothing because they and He the Genius are so great and Godlike in their cocoon of Thailand.
> 
> 
> That's a bit unfair. I've seen loads of Thai kids sitting in that Japanese bookstore in Emquartier crosslegged on the floor reading English books. Great to see.


My step-daughter has never been a book worm. Maybe Thai books for a short period of time but never English books. 

Seriously, she's put very little effort into school. She goes to class, never skips schools, pays attention in class, does her home work, takes the quizzes. Sure, I'm proud of her and having adapted to the American school system. At the same time I think it's pretty darned easy to maintain an overall 3.00 GPA.

IMHO if she approaches university the same way she has high school most likely she'll find it a little more difficult to achieve a 3.00 GPA quite as easily but I doubt it will take all that much extra effort to be right around that same GPA.

----------


## MrG

> IMHO if she approaches university the same way she has high school most likely she'll find it a little more difficult to achieve a 3.00 GPA quite as easily but I doubt it will take all that much extra effort to be right around that same GPA.


I graduated High School with a 3.0 GPA. They let me take college courses while still in HS because I was ahead of the game. Going into college I was confident, but not cocky. My first semester I dropped to a 2.0. Damn. Yes, they expect you to notch it up. But it sounds like she already has all the right skills to do well.

----------


## PeeCoffee

No worries SK, she'll be fine...and so will you. Being a proud father has its moments.

----------


## Storekeeper

> No worries SK, she'll be fine...and so will you. Being a proud father has its moments.


Maybe she has succeeded despite me. But I have to be honest and admit many times I've been rude, crude, mean and manipulative trying to motivate her.

----------


## PeeCoffee

No worries. Sometimes that is referred to as _parenting....as long as it isn't abuse._

----------


## Storekeeper

OK ... time to seek advice from my TD mates:

My daughter is in her freshman year at Washington State University and failed two classes the first term. In addition, even though the money I spend pays for up to 18 credits per term she's only taking the minimum of 12. Freshman year ends in about 4-5 weeks. So year one of four is going to end with her behind schedule but still possible to graduate on time in 2020 as long as she doesn't fail any more classes and takes the maximum load a couple times.

I'm thinking I give her the sophomore year to catch up. I think she should carry a full load of classes next year and not fail any. And if she can't do that or fails any more classes then I cut her loose.

Am I being unreasonable?

----------


## wasabi

I really can't answer that because it's the US system, but if it helps My Daughter has a student loan for Her University fees, amazingly She's coming round to visit us and coincidentally the next loan application is due to be submitted.
 my cooperation is needed before they issue the loan.
Students can borrow the Uni fees and pay it back after graduation.

----------


## Storekeeper

> I really can't answer that because it's the US system, but if it helps My Daughter has a student loan for Her University fees, amazingly She's coming round to visit us and coincidentally the next loan application is due to be submitted.
>  my cooperation is needed before they issue the loan.
> Students can borrow the Uni fees and pay it back after graduation.


She's not a US citizen. But somehow is getting about $5K a year in loans. I'd be shocked if she could borrow more than that without a cosigner. She has a green card though and could get a job to pay for it. Probably take her about 6-7 years though.

----------


## UrbanMan

> failed two classes the first term.


Was there a proper come-to-Jesus moment following these failures?

----------


## Norton

> IMHO if she approaches university the same way she has high school most likely she'll find it a little more difficult to achieve a 3.00 GPA quite as easily but I doubt it will take all that much extra effort to be right around that same GPA.


Yep. Predictable. Sounds like a just get by attitude by your daughter. 




> I'm thinking I give her the sophomore year to catch up


She is clearly way over her head at WSU. I would be looking at alternatives as giving it another year at WSU will be a waste of time.

Alternatives worth some thought.

Alternatives to college

----------


## stfranalum

> And if she can't do that or fails any more classes then I cut her loose.
> 
> Am I being unreasonable?


not unreasonable, but i do wonder how 1. prepared she is (maturity) and, 2. how much  you have supported her in academics. 

not to be pointing the finger at you per se, but if you're trying to decide what she needs, realizing if she can acquire the skills or deciding if it's too late should be a concern.

another quesion i would have would be for you, SK...knowing that she is a female and that the odds of her dropping out, and hitching up with some guy in short order, would (should) give you some pause. do you think she needs a yer off to get her head straight? this is more and more common. drop out, come home and work. stay with you. learn responsibility and learn a good work ethic....all of which is under the pretenses that she has the ability to go back to school when ready.

i guess that you dont want to be paying for 7 years of undergraduate (as funny as that sounds, its not entirely atypical these days. ) a lot of kids are pushed into school when in fact they would be better off in the military or doing something else. well, thats all well and good, but every kid is different. some are driven and clever, while others hapless. you know your own kid. if it's a matter of maturity then let her take time off. let her work and be close to home. encourage her and monitor her behavior. if she's the partying type, it might be dangerous (getting pregnant) or it might help her get that stuff out of her system. it's a rough call. either way, failing courses means she's not currently ready to work hard in school. 

remember this is all her responsibility. since you have the purse stings you have a lot of leverage in this equation and telling her that you'll pay for things when you've determined she's ready is a fair way to proceed. if she says, "i want to go so badly!" then she might just end up doing well with that motivation. let her take out loans and such. cosign on them for one year. see how it goes, but dont invest in a 4 + year holiday where she get a major in communications, 5 tatoos, a drug habit, and a bad stinking attitude. 

maybe the worst part is that she drops out and decides to do something different. these are life's consequences and the best you can do, in the moment, is just let them know that you love them. 

good luck SK. i can see how thats a rough call. ultimately, you know her best.

----------


## rickschoppers

Most scholarships that I am aware of require a specific GPA. Receiving two F's could jeopardize her scholarship unless things have changed. There are numerous scholarships out there that are available to non-citizens, so you may want to do a Google search.

----------


## stfranalum

there are lots of kinds of scholarships. many of them are dependent on a certain GPA, or at least not having any failed classes. 

if she's a freshman, then a couple of years at community college might do her well. she gets the core classes out of the way. 

the problem is that some mature students do very well with this arrangement, while less mature ones only waddle around in a student population, that at best, is quite diverse. there are loads of waywards kids at community. depending on her personality, be careful of that kind of environment. it either pushes her to be better, or gets her hanging around with the 'punch out and head to happy hour' crowd, with kids who might be *ahem* a lot more seasoned than her. 

how about a stint in the navy, ol' storekeep? 4 years and she'll be shipshape!

----------


## Storekeeper

> Was there a proper come-to-Jesus moment following these failures?


Actually she came home during winter break and failed to let us know. It was only a month later when I finally got access to her account that I found out. I think the "come-to-Jesus moment" is right now ... when I refused to pay for her to go to the upcoming summer school. Will give her this though ... she changed roommates when she went back saying this would help. The roommate supposedly had a boyfriend practically living in the room.




> She is clearly way over her head at WSU.





> Sounds like a just get by attitude by your daughter.


That has entered my mind and I've been thinking that is why her advisor apparently has put the thought in her head to switch from nursing to ... a Human Development major. My thoughts have been that she just didn't realize how much tougher university is than high school. Oddly enough I have told her from the beginning I wasn't paying for her to get some liberal arts major and now here we are. My thoughts are ... if she's going to do that then she might as well get a B.Ed. What about all the stories you hear of kids who have a hard time adjusting the first year but after that the adjust to the curriculum? Would I be wrong not to give her one more year of rope to see what she does with it?




> do wonder how 1. prepared she is (maturity) and, 2. how much you have supported her in academics.





> do you think she needs a yer off to get her head straight?





> i guess that you dont want to be paying for 7 years of undergraduate


She finished high school with an overall 3.25 GPA but yes I did constantly monitor her and look for ways to motivate her while she was living at home. I always preached "never below three point oh" ... but at this point I'd just settle for 2.0

The story line has been from the beginning ... I'm looking to line myself up to retire again in 2020 ... the year she is supposed to graduate. So there isn't any room for breaks and re-starts.




> Most scholarships that I am aware of require a specific GPA.


There are no scholarships. I take out a Parent Loan that pays for everything except for books. And then I shoot to pay it off before the end of the school year. Which in this case is next month.She gets a much smaller student loan that is supposed to pay for books and any extras. Basically as it turns out her small student loan ends up as money in her account. She'd end up right around $20K in debt after 4 years. I'll add that when it comes to scholarships she has been much less than aggressive when applying for them. Hell, I have no proof she actually eve applied for any scholarships.




> then a couple of years at community college





> how about a stint in the navy


I committed myself to paying for her to attend college for 4 years. So I'm going to stick to that timeline. So I'm thinking to go ahead and give her another years at WSU. But the final two years of my deal may very well end up being 2 years at Olympic College, living at home and back under my thumb. If she really wants to be a nurse she only needs to get a 2 year degree anyway to be a Registered Nurse (RN). Or ... do I meet my commitment of 4 years and if she's short of credits at the point do I just tell her she's on her own?

I really don't think she's the military type. Although that may very well end up being the direction her mother pushes her in. It's already started as a matter of a fact. Mom is the one pushing that ... not me.

Anyway, I'm very disappointed. Just don't get how she doesn't understand the opportunity she is pissing away. She's not stupid. She knows damn well her current quality and style of life is only happening because of the Paymaster General.

So far I have no indication that she boozes, does drugs or is getting jiggy with some boy ... but she's a social butterfly and one of the types who is always looking at herself in the mirror.




> as funny as that sounds, its not entirely atypical these days.


Yeah, pretty much my understanding as well ... seems like many kids are taking 5 years to graduate these days. Which brings up another concern I have ... I'm starting to suspect her advisor has that same train of thought ... It sounds like her advisor might be the one who is suggested my daughter only carry 12 credits per semester ... how does a academic advisor balance the needs and bests interests of a student over squeezing a kid for another year of tuition money for the school. Let's be honest ... these universities today are just as much of a business nowadays as they are an institution of higher learning.

----------


## Cold Pizza

I read all of the recent posts.

1. Did she say why she failed 2 classes? Or, what she thinks the reasons are?

Living away from home for first time less parental monitoring, so study habits slack? Roommate's BF in the room constantly? That can be a distraction. The rigors of nursing programs? A combination of all of these?

(I've read Nursing programs - not sure about the BA - are demanding and if one falls behind in certain courses it's difficult to catch up.)

2. Does she like studying Nursing? Changing her mind?

3. If she's only taking 12 credits and not the 18 possible is it because of it being less work or because it may be too difficult, considering she's failed 2 classes?  


Best of luck to her and you.

----------


## Storekeeper

> I read all of the recent posts.





> Best of luck to her and you.


TBH even though she started off as a nursing major I don't really think she has a clue what she wants to be. Maybe it's possible some people never feel drawn to something. I don't know.

IMHO the kid probably just doesn't understand the difficult position she's putting herself in or me. I ask myself ... how did this happen? How can she not be taking school more seriously?

----------


## Slick

Why did my post get removed? I was just wondering what her reasons were for failing  :Confused:

----------


## Storekeeper

> I was just wondering what her reasons were for failing


I never really got a straight answer. In fact one of the classes she had a B- in at the mid-term and failed the class.

I'm in a WSU Parent chat group on FB ... I've posted some questions and concerns there. Because I know the university trolls the groups ...  :Smile:

----------


## baldrick

pull her out of uni and work for a year or 2

flipping burgers for a while could do wonders for the motivation

just put the money away to be used if she does get some ideas of a better job

chemical engineering is where it is at - the world will need more meth chefs  :Smile:

----------


## Storekeeper

Here's a response I got back from one of the WSU parents:

"Some  students need to not take quite as full of a load. It really depends on  the person AND if she is just starting out she might need to take it  slower. You can say that if she wants to do that you pay 1/2 and she  take out a loan for the other 1/2? I  would never push someone to take a load more than they were comfortable  with. I suggested the 1/2 loan if money is a huge issue for you.  Personally I have seen parents view college as how much they pay how  much will the student earn. I was raised with college is an experience  in life for learning , etc. My son's semester abroad is over 25K. My  concern was he got very sick twice once in the hospital for several days  w/ 3 infections. Money to me was never the issue, even though his  father pays for very little. Since you said she already failed some  classes to me that last thing you would want to do is push her beyond  her comfort level. My friends son at UW is now taking all these  humanities classes because it interests him. He's an excellent student  but there goes his 'practical' major. He sees college as a place to  learn. I hope you can find common ground so your daughter stays in  college and is happy. A few thousand dollars to have someone happy to me  is no big deal. Unhappy students drop out, if she is trying , not into  drugs or bad things be so thankful. That's my advice".

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Slick
> 
> I was just wondering what her reasons were for failing
> 
> 
> I never really got a straight answer.


I think finding that out is necessary. Is she really way over her head at WSU (or at university) or has she been too slack (lazy)? You need to know and she needs to be honest about it. Once you know the answer, you can deal with it in the best way.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
> 
> I read all of the recent posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's not uncommon. 

But I understand you're paying a decent sized bill. 





> Maybe it's possible some people never feel drawn to something. I don't know.


For some people, yes. I've known quite a few of them. (Honestly, they were in EFL.)




> How can she not be taking school more seriously?


One has to take Uni seriously. Some people were not very motivated when I went. 

Uni is not for everyone and I don't mean this in a bad way.


The parent's advice you posted seemed worthy of consideration, IMO.


Hopefully she will do better.

Does she enjoy the Uni experience in general? 

Academically, does she say she likes her classes?

----------


## bsnub

> In fact one of the classes she had a B- in at the mid-term and failed the class.


That tells me that there is some sort of distraction that popped up. To go from a B- to and F is not likely to just happen at that point. WSU is a big party school Stores and I think that may be whats behind this...

----------


## Slick

> Uni is not for everyone and I don't mean this in a bad way.


Isn't this kinda like saying "work/employment isn't for everyone"?

Clearly it's a lack of motivation or distraction, but I don't have kids so I have no idea.

----------


## Storekeeper

> Is she really way over her head at WSU (or at university) or has she been too slack (lazy)?





> That tells me that there is some sort of distraction that popped up.


Good points. I'm of the opinion that maybe WSU isn't totally above her head and there is no reason she shouldn't be able to get a C or better in every class. So that leaves the distractions. I'm reminded now I forgot and left out something ... Chi Sigma Delta ... for some reason she decided to rush and she did mention that she has dropped out of that group as it was taking up too much time.

So basically I guess I need to keep in mind she has taken two steps to change her environment ... changed room mates and dropped out of the sorority.

I pay her phone bill online so I know there is one phone number that she is constantly messaging and being messaged by.

----------


## PeeCoffee

Go figure...WSU ranked #88 out of 1426 universities rated as a Party School - Go Cougs !!!

Additionally fraternities and sororities are huge on campus in Pullman which puts additional pressures on finding abundant time to apply oneself and study particularly for a freshman student.

It's a very good school for a student to prepare for a future vocation but the distractions away from parental oversight (love and booze inclusive) can potentially derail even the best and brightest.

Maybe it's simply best for you and her Mom to sit down with her for a "heart-to-heart" to hear her side of the story _without distractions_ and chew on it for a while before you make up your minds. 

After real contemplation at a later date you can both give her your decision (as it's your money) with or without any attachments ('targets') or goals that must be attained in her second year...but do it with love along with your reasoning for validation.

I'm just writing as a parent who saw three through university and one of whom attended WSU. Trust me (as you well know) when you're shelling out that kind of money on your kid's "future" it's sometimes hard to keep your inner feelings in check.

Final note, always let your children know that you love them far beyond anything they can understand, show them and mean it and let them know to call at anytime if there's ever a problem. 
There are many worse things for a parent to face than just their kids lower-than-expected GPA. Good luck, SK.

----------


## stfranalum

> how does a academic advisor balance the needs and bests interests of a student over squeezing a kid for another year of tuition money for the school. Let's be honest ... these universities today are just as much of a business nowadays as they are an institution of higher learning.


this is exactly what happened to me. my advisor sucked and my wanting to take really cool anthropology classes has left me in a situation where i have very few...just a couple of the Gen Ed requirements to get a teaching license now. in fact, to get a teaching license, i would basically have to go to school for 2-3 years OF JUST REQUIREMENTS before even starting the education classes themselves. i have an MA in english btw!!!!

ridiculous. and since they're a business, the customer needs to be a lot more savvy than they did some time back. 
_
caveat emptor_

----------


## rickschoppers

There is no way she is over her head academically if she graduated from high school with a 3.25 GPA overall. She could definitely go from a  B- to an F if she did not take the final in the class. If I were you Storekeeper, I would go speak to both of the professors that taught the classes where she received the F as a final grade. Often times they will know what causes a student to fail. If I had to guess, she was either distracted, or just gave up by not taking the finals. The good news is that she can repeat those two classes and replace the F with passing grades.

Pre-nursing is a rigorous curriculum. I was pre-dentistry at the first University I attended where the pre-requisites were the same for pre-med, pre-dent, pre-pharmacy and pre-nursing. That was the only kind of student I had in my classes my first semester. I was on a four year full ride football scholarship and I flunked out.. My reasons were joining a fraternity, too much partying and feeling overwhelmed by some very smart students. I attended a Community College for one year and received good grades. I then transfered to the University of Nevada Reno where I attended for two years. I then applied and was accepted to the College of Pharmacy at the University of Utah. All the classes I failed at my first university, I re-took and got good grades. You may consider this type of route for your daughter. 

Your daughter definitely has the smarts, but may feel a bit overwhelmed at such a large university, as I did. The immaturity factor definitely played a huge role in my first year of college, and it sounds like something similar has happened to your daughter. Take it for what it is worth.

----------


## stfranalum

> I would go speak to both of the professors that taught the classes where she received the F as a final grade. Often times they will know what causes a student to fail.


not so sure about that. freshman classes are usually big and talking to the professor is about as effective as....

the biggest distraction is at home. her apartment or wherever. she simply isnt spending time studying. the biggest question is: what is she actually doing? it's gotta be something. either something bad or she just doesnt want to study and just wants to work, and play adult for a while, which is a real thing. 

the academics bit is the easiest thing, once you've put your mind to it. 

college professors dont want to talk to parents and often they dont even know student names. if you asked to see if she attended classes, many will say they don't even take attendance. and those who do, might give you an answer but are unlikely to have any decent info on your kid. go talk to her neighbors and if you can, see what she's up to online. follow her around (i know that sounds like stalking), but if she did well in high school and i failing out her first year, there is something going on. best guess is, 1. boys, 2. partying, 3. both, or 4. self obsession and lack of desire to learn, no matter how much she tells dad she wants to "be in college". 

undergrad isnt that hard. go to class. do your work to a minimum degree of effort and you pass. F's are because one of the said reasons aren't being done.

----------


## Storekeeper

So basically .... I'm armed with new information now:

1. Classes can be taken free (no extra charge) during the winter intermission that count towards the 18 credits per semester. 
2. WSU offers online classes that are cheaper and in many cases easier. 
3. Possible to take some classes during summer break at Olympic College that are much cheaper. Just have to make sure WSU will accept them.

I guess the bottom line and thing that needs to be continually reinforced is that my generosity has a shelf life of 8 semesters and will stand as originally planned at ending in 2020 at the agreed upon date from the very beginning.

All of your responses are much appreciated ... you have helped me whether you realize it or not. 

Thank you.

*** She loves WSU ... loves Pullman ... loves being away from her parents.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> So basically .... I'm armed with new information now:
> 
> 1. Classes can be taken free (no extra charge) during the winter intermission that count towards the 18 credits per semester. 
> 2. WSU offers online classes that are cheaper and in many cases easier. 
> 3. Possible to take some classes during summer break at Olympic College that are much cheaper. Just have to make sure WSU will accept them.
> 
> I guess the bottom line and thing that needs to be continually reinforced is that my generosity has a shelf life of 8 semesters and will stand as originally planned at ending in 2020 at the agreed upon date from the very beginning.
> 
> All of your responses are much appreciated ... you have helped me whether you realize it or not. 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, you're a good guy and best of luck to all.

----------


## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> I would go speak to both of the professors that taught the classes where she received the F as a final grade. Often times they will know what causes a student to fail.
> 
> 
> not so sure about that. freshman classes are usually big and talking to the professor is about as effective as....
> 
> the biggest distraction is at home. her apartment or wherever. she simply isnt spending time studying. the biggest question is: what is she actually doing? it's gotta be something. either something bad or she just doesnt want to study and just wants to work, and play adult for a while, which is a real thing. 
> 
> ...


Uhm, I would still go speak to her professors since they would know at a minimum if she took the finals or not. Definitely worth doing.

----------


## Storekeeper

> I would still go speak to her professors


No can do Rick. We the parents are in Yokosuka, Japan and the daughter is in Pullman, WA.

----------


## cyrille

> go talk to her neighbors and if you can, see what she's up to online. follow her around


There are lots of private investigators around in those parts judging by the tv programmes.

Why not send her a bottle of vodka or something and then have one of them dust it for prints?

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> I would still go speak to her professors
> 
> 
> No can do Rick. We the parents are in Yokosuka, Japan and the daughter is in Pullman, WA.


You could directly email the Professor.

----------


## PeeCoffee

> So basically .... I'm armed with new information now:
> 
> *** She loves WSU ... loves Pullman ... loves being away from her parents.


As she should - Go Cougs !

If you ever get a chance to visit WSU-Pullman please visit the 'zoo' , particularly their Bear Center enclosures affiliated with the School of Veterinary and Animal Sciences. It's as close as one ever wants to get to a grizzly - those huge, potentially-deadly-when-provoked bears...and of couse their cuddly-cute cubs.

Now what do booze, fraternities, hazing and grizzlies have to do with this ? 
Just could make for some interesting University lore , couldn't it.

And do not forget the in-house, home-made ice cream and 'Cougar Cheeses' from the creamery of their Food Sciences program.

----------


## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by Storekeeper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> ...


Or use a telephone.  :Smile:  We never have heard if your daughter took the finals of the two failed classes.

----------


## Storekeeper

> Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Storekeeper
> ...


TBH I was under the impression after attending the 3 day Alive Session on campus for parents back in July that confidentiality prevents professors from discussing grades with parents. In fact, the school would not give me access to her grades. I had to pull teeth to get my daughter to give me parental access. So I can see her daily RDA (dining) account, status of loans, charges and finally got access to her grades. I'm going to go Post in the Parent Chat group and ask about emailing professors.

----------


## Storekeeper

> Originally Posted by Storekeeper
> 
> 
> So basically .... I'm armed with new information now:
> 
> *** She loves WSU ... loves Pullman ... loves being away from her parents.
> 
> 
> As she should - Go Cougs !
> ...


Have been to Pullman three times. Was quite shocked to find a D1 university in such a super small town in the middle of nowhere basically. But I've heard about the ice cream and the cheese. FYI ... this coming weekend is Mom's Weekend if we were there for my wife to attend. She loves that stuff.

I can hardly imagine being in Pullman for a game during football season. Christ Almighty ... and Ive read how the very few hotels seriously gouge during those times.

Heard stories about kegs being rolled down hill and left in the streets back in the old days. Lots of faculty and alumni parents have made it a point to let new parents know it's nowhere near as wild as it was back before say 2000.

----------


## 12Call

Cannot be arsed to read 6 pages.

What is the end goal for your daughter Storekeeper ?

----------


## Storekeeper

> Cannot be arsed to read 6 pages.
> 
> What is the end goal for your daughter Storekeeper ?


To graduate on time in 2020. And to make sure both she and her mother understand the Paymaster General will pay for nothing beyond that.

----------


## 12Call

I wish you all the best.

----------


## stfranalum

> To graduate on time in 2020. And to make sure both she and her mother understand the Paymaster General will pay for nothing beyond that.


frankly, SK...a kid who gets a 3.25 in high school and then Fs in her first year....doesn't understand that (you will not pay beyond 2020).

and who can blame her? she wants to be connected to daddy. 

mind me asking, but are you separated? just wondering if your paying for her and the spouse (you mentioned here in the Paymaster General comment) is something that you're doing out of loyalty, or doing the right thing...or if you're living with your wife and only meant your kid. i don't mean to be too nebby here (you did bring it up!) but in terms of her attitude and not waking up to smell the coffee, your relationship and more importantly, your role of supporter might be in the dark recesses of her mind. kids do stuff like that- foul up because they want support and may not be ready to be on their own. just an idea n'at.

----------


## Storekeeper

^ I know I need to think about some things after the advice I've been given in this thread. To be clear I always refer to her as my daughter but in fact she's my step-daughter. We're still together but the wife has pretty much left the education side of raising a kid up to me. 

There are some communication and respect issues here I think that I need to get resolved. Some of the questions I've been asked I don't have answers to and getting them from my daughter is like pulling teeth.

----------


## 12Call

Closing wifi can cause a reaction.

----------


## stfranalum

^^ well that clarifies it for me (not that it matters, but i was giving advice and now have a clearer idea of your situation). 

good luck SK. clearly, she's lucky to have you there supporting her and such. i can totally see how you need to set limits and how tricky that can be, because, well, young adultz be difficult.

----------


## LarryGee

I am a professor at a state university in the US, and I can confirm that we are not allowed to discuss the affairs of students with their parents, unless the student gives permission. Look up FERPA for clarification.

----------


## LarryGee

I never really thought about this too much before, but I've had a few Thai or Lao students in my classes over the years. For some reason, most of them got Ds in my classes where the average grade was something like a B.  I have no idea why, but it seems like they didn't want to put the time in to do well. These were lower and upper division psychology classes that really weren't that tough.

----------


## rickschoppers

> I am a professor at a state university in the US, and I can confirm that we are not allowed to discuss the affairs of students with their parents, unless the student gives permission. Look up FERPA for clarification.


A very silly regulation, especially if the parents are paying for the education. I can understand protecting the student's information, but we are talking about parents here.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by LarryGee
> 
> 
> I am a professor at a state university in the US, and I can confirm that we are not allowed to discuss the affairs of students with their parents, unless the student gives permission. Look up FERPA for clarification.
> 
> 
> A very silly regulation, especially if the parents are paying for the education. I can understand protecting the student's information, but we are talking about parents here.


Almost all of these students are over 18, so I assume that may be part of (or the) reason. They're legally considerd, "adults" I think.

----------


## rickschoppers

Possibly so, but it is still a bit silly if the parents are footing the bill. Even hospitals will give out medical information to direct family. The US has just gone too far with the PC stuff.

----------


## Storekeeper

> I never really thought about this too much before, but I've had a few Thai or Lao students in my classes over the years. For some reason, most of them got Ds in my classes where the average grade was something like a B.  I have no idea why, but it seems like they didn't want to put the time in to do well. These were lower and upper division psychology classes that really weren't that tough.


I can't even joke about it ... this kid spent, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12th grade in US schools and most of that in the Department of Defense school system which has a pretty darned good reputation. And she finished with a 3.25 GPA in four years of high school. So kinda not fair to compare her to your average international student. In fact, she's not even considered an international student.

Also, I'm in a WSU parents group and they too complain all the time about various school issues so I kinda already knew I was going to get anywhere contacting a professor. Anyway ... after talking with the girl more in depth recently I think she simply fugged up and had to make some adjustments to manage her time better. I probably should have given her more credit for changing her roommate and dropping out of the sorority ... in fact I kinda ignored those two clues. 

Thanks for the input Professor.

----------


## cyrille

> clearly, she's lucky to have you there supporting her


...but he should be secretly following her around more, right?

----------


## SKkin

> Also, I'm in a WSU parents group and they too complain all the time about various school issues so I kinda already knew I was going to get anywhere contacting a professor. Anyway ... after talking with the girl more in depth recently I think she simply fugged up and had to make some adjustments to manage her time better. I probably should have given her more credit for changing her roommate and dropping out of the sorority ... in fact I kinda ignored those two clues.


All I can say SK, is just be thankful she's not at Berkeley...



How Berkeley became a hotbed of violence in the Trump era - POLITICO

----------


## Storekeeper

^ One of AO's daughters is there.

----------


## aging one

guilty as charged. Home in 3 weeks...  :Smile:  555 and lol...

----------


## SKkin

^Is she avoiding all that mess AO? I hope. 

Has to be distracting though.

----------


## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by Storekeeper
> 
>  Also, I'm in a WSU parents group and they too complain all the time about various school issues so I kinda already knew I was going to get anywhere contacting a professor. Anyway ... after talking with the girl more in depth recently I think she simply fugged up and had to make some adjustments to manage her time better. I probably should have given her more credit for changing her roommate and dropping out of the sorority ... in fact I kinda ignored those two clues.
> 
> 
> All I can say SK, is just be thankful she's not at Berkeley...
> 
> 
> 
> How Berkeley became a hotbed of violence in the Trump era - POLITICO


Just like the 60s and 70s during Vietnam. Berkley has always been known for their war protesters and a good education in many things.

----------


## LarryGee

> Originally Posted by LarryGee
> 
> 
> I am a professor at a state university in the US, and I can confirm that we are not allowed to discuss the affairs of students with their parents, unless the student gives permission. Look up FERPA for clarification.
> 
> 
> A very silly regulation, especially if the parents are paying for the education. I can understand protecting the student's information, but we are talking about parents here.


Yeah, but it makes it a lot easier on me, that's for sure... although I have had parents contact me to notify me of issues in a student's life, like one young woman who was missing a lot of classes because her father had just committed suicide, or a guy who was doing poorly because he was dealing with brain damage from getting jumped outside a bar the year before. But I can't and don't discuss grades with the parents (unless the student gives permission). It's never come up in a official way, but everybody understands this.

Otherwise, you'd have parents who may or may not be providing financial support (who knows?) coming in to the system to check up on their kids, argue for better grades, etc. FERPA means that a student's grades are his/her own concern.

----------


## 12Call

What age was the jumped upon Larry ?

----------


## aging one

> ^Is she avoiding all that mess AO? I hope. 
> 
> Has to be distracting though.


She just studies. Environmental Engineering major, Environmental economics minor.   She got a sniff of tear gas walking home from a lecture when they had the Milo protests.  Good kid and never been real political. 

She says A's at Berkeley are an 80 hour a week job... :Smile:

----------


## rickschoppers

^
Good for her. She is goal oriented and will do well in life. I used to look for college grads when hiring pharmacy technicians because it showed that trait along with completing tasks and challenges. Just the kind of employee I needed.

----------


## LarryGee

> What age was the jumped upon Larry ?


 This guy was a senior in college so probably about 22.

----------


## Storekeeper

*Update

*Well, for those following I was pretty upset with my step-daughter's 1st semester freshman year performance getting grades of C+, C-, F, B- and F ... so here are the 2nd semester grades ... A-, B-, B and a C. She had two other classes that are either pass or fail that she took and passed ... Writing Tutorial 101 and Success in College 101. Pretty sure she was put on academic probation and had to take those last two classes.  Anyway, things are looking up ...

More info ... Yes, there appears to be a "young man" in the equation as some of you suggested might be possible. Not sure what to make of him just yet ... he just graduated from WSU with a degree in Computer Science and will be going to work for Google soon. Apparently his family is originally from the Marshall Islands.

She will be arriving here in Japan on Saturday and won't return to the states until just a couple days before sophomore year starts in August.

----------


## NZdick1983

^ Glad to hear the good news mate!...  I think you should take her to a nice dinner to celebrate... Yakitori mmm!  Have an Asahi super dry, on me! 55

----------


## Cold Pizza

It's good to hear the good news on improved grades.

----------


## Storekeeper

> a nice dinner to celebrate... Yakitori mmm!


Probably go from the airport straight to a Yakiniku place.




> It's good to hear the good news on improved grades.


Feel a little better for sure but not ready to let my guard down.

----------


## aging one

Good news SK, I have the kid in Berkeley coming home on Monday that will be good. The other is on the quarter system and gets home end of June.  Both get almost 3 months home.   :Smile:

----------


## Storekeeper

> Good news SK, I have the kid in Berkeley coming home on Monday that will be good. The other is on the quarter system and gets home end of June.  Both get almost 3 months home.


What will they be doing while home? Just chilling and hanging with friends?

----------


## aging one

They will be doing translation work, I hope about 15 hours a week each.  Some in an office but mostly from home.  They both have friends coming so will do a little travelling around Thailand with them.

----------


## Storekeeper

> They will be doing translation work, I hope about 15 hours a week each.


Very good. Hoping ours will be bagging groceries at the commissary for tips.

----------


## aging one

> Hoping ours will be bagging groceries at the commissary for tips.


For mine work was part of the deal in the financial negotiations that went on before leaving. They did the work last summer as well. Both working while studying, and also working a bit during the summers. What they do here is online though.

----------


## bsnub

> Very good. Hoping ours will be bagging groceries at the commissary for tips.


I did that as a kid growing up as an Army brat! No pay just tips back then. Anyway glad to hear she got her grades up.

----------


## Storekeeper

> For mine work was part of the deal in the financial negotiations that went on before leaving.


You're giving me an idea. My brother-in-law could easily get my daughter a summer job in Nakhonsawan. Possibly front desk clerk in one of the hotels. Maybe I should suggest it the next couple of summers.

----------


## stfranalum

good grades SK. looking up!


(and hubba hubba on the google employee)


 :goldcup:

----------


## Storekeeper

Like to throw out an "Oh by the way" ...

Friend of mine who is an elementary school teacher here in Japan in the DOD school system also has a Thai step-daughter who he raised from about the age of 5-6 ... Well today she graduated from the University of Iowa and was commissioned in the US Air Force.

----------


## Storekeeper

Thought about an update a couple weeks ago but let it pass and now I’m ready to do it.

It’s been a tough 4 years but we’re in the last leg of this Washington State University journey.

She’s on her third and final change of major. Started off pursuing a nursing degree and now it’s down to just a plain vanilla General Studies degree with a Human Development emphasis.

After being a fairly decent high school student with a solid GPA she’s barely put much effort into it hovering around a 2.25 GPA.

Won’t graduate on time next month and will need another semester. But I’m done and have drawn a line in the sand.

Total cost for me all in for 4.5 years will be right around $95K ... $6K more to go and it’s paid off.

What’s coming after for her? I don’t know. She seems to think she’ll be able to get some sort of on campus job with WSU. I’m pushing, and have her Thai family pushing, her to go one of two routes ... Supply Officer in the Navy or as a civilian logistician with the Navy. Those are the only silver bullets I have left for her.

----------


## tomcat

> Thought about an update a couple weeks ago but let it pass and now I’m ready to do it.
> 
> It’s been a tough 4 years but we’re in the last leg of this Washington State University journey.
> 
> She’s on her third and final change of major. Started off pursuing a nursing degree and now it’s down to just a plain vanilla General Studies degree with a Human Development emphasis.
> 
> After being a fairly decent high school student with a solid GPA she’s barely put much effort into it hovering around a 2.25 GPA.
> 
> Won’t graduate on time next month and will need another semester. But I’m done and have drawn a line in the sand.
> ...


...fortunately, those don't appear to be her only two options...she's an adult now and should be charting her own course...possibly at the expense of your silver ammo...

----------


## Storekeeper

^ Cheers TC. TBH I really hope she finds her own path. It’s a real tough sell even with connections to get a non Business Major in as a Supply Officer.

----------


## bowie

> What’s coming after for her? I don’t know. She seems to think she’ll be able to get some sort of on campus job with WSU. I’m pushing, and have her Thai family pushing, her to go one of two routes ... Supply Officer in the Navy or as a civilian logistician with the Navy.


SK - you are better off letting your young adult choose her own path and make her own decisions. If she comes to you asking for advisement by all means provide her with your honest, unemotional (if possible) advice. She has to pursue a career path that will satisfy her - really a question and a personal decision only she can answer and choose. 

You know quite well military requires a certain motivation and desire. If she doesn't have it, she'll fail. 

At a certain point in time (and this is probably the time) she will have to take charge of her own life. It is then that most people start to have failures of judgement, lesson learning, and begin to understand they do not know it all. Was when I started asking the old man for his advice and wisdom. It was only after I had made a few judgmental mistakes that I realized his advisements were on target and in my best interest. 

Up to you, but, really it's up to her. Good luck to her and may she hit a few home runs in pursuit of her life.  :Smile:

----------


## Storekeeper

^ Yep ... up to her and in no way will I lose sleep if she chooses a different path. More power to her. It’s her decision. But I’m not going to miss this one last opportunity to make sure she doesn’t just waive off the Navy without putting some thought to it. She’d do fine as a Supply Officer. No problem. Make at least 0-5. If she can do better in the civilian world ... fine. No worries. But, oh by the way ... there is this career path over here that leads to retirement at 42 and a guaranteed monthly income for life.

Just checked a calculator ... assuming 0-5 ... somebody who joined in August 2000 and retired in August 2020 would get $4500 a month.

----------


## aging one

SK, we have talked about this at length and in person.  Your daughter is going to make up her own mind, its that simple, at this age kids are headstrong, very headstrong indeed. My kids who are basically the same age as your daughter would listen to me but literally take it with a grain of salt.

Both have already changed jobs one time in just a year of employment as they seek out what they want to do and are good at. Both moves have been for the better. Its terribly hard to just sit back and let them make their own way, but its something you must do. Bowie said it quite well.

Once they get out in the real world they really grow up fast. The change in my daughters since university and work life has been great. They now are beginning to understand what the "real" world is.  I will bet you she surprise both you and her mom with her career choice. Good luck buddy...

----------


## MarilynMonroe

^^That is pretty sweet money, but money isn't everything. She will eventually decide if that is what she wants to do for the rest of her life. Congrats on her almost finishing no matter. With a general degree, some people come out and work a number of jobs before finding something they like or want to do for the rest of their lives. Myself and my oldest niece decided a few times on specializing (her in Nursing and myself in Teaching), because we knew that is what we wanted to do. Other people may not really know until they fall into it or find something they enjoy doing. Best of luck to her! It isn't easy being a student (A Millenial),  in this day and age that is for sure.

----------


## NamPikToot

Well done for seeing it through Keep. As mentioned she'll have to work it out for herself. There is almost an expectation in the younger generation that they may have 3-5 "careers" during their working life, some settle quickly on one others take time to find their slot and in general seem less bothered by a defined single path career. In the US it may be different as in the UK our social support system includes comprehensive healthcare so there is less imperative to secure employment which includes medical.

----------


## bowie

> I’m not going to miss this one last opportunity to make sure she doesn’t just waive off the Navy without putting some thought to it. She’d do fine as a Supply Officer. No problem. Make at least 0-5. If she can do better in the civilian world ...


SK, as prior navy (best decision I ever made) I'm as pro military as they come. But, the 24/7 hours and deployments, take a heavy, heavy toll. You know. If your daughter is ambivalent about the military. It won't work. 

However, retiring after 20 years then starting a second career - a most lucrative career path, very hard to beat. Good luck to her.

----------


## Stumpy

SK,
Well as you may have read my youngest just kicked out into the "Real World" not to long ago . I never once told either daughter what I think they should do career wise.  I just guided them along keeping them going forward.  My youngest med school tuition was ~ $150k.  My ex and I split the costs.  That amount does not include the car and extras so figure $200k. She originally started out on a swimming scholarship at Univ of Hawaii.  Her major was Marine Biology.  She did that about 1.5 years and then decided that there was no real opportunities in that field and transferred all her units to Medicine and then moved back to California and went half time to USF and half time Stanford.  Again I just supported her but she has always been driven like her older sister and she had a GPA of 4.0+so how could I argue anything.  Now she is out and was immediately offered a position and took it and moved.  In the end as a father I was pretty simple in that I just wanted both my daughters to be happy, healthy, productive and secure.  The rest was upside. 

I will say though. We definitely want the best for them and we look at how we did our lives and the hindsight we have now and you want to tell them a good choice but that's our point of view.  What I am instilling in both my daughters is start their 401ks now.  Get in early.  Save like crazy but still balance living life.  I help with both their investment portfolio and they both have the max taken out each check.  I told them its funny. Initially you see that money and want to go spend it instead but after awhile you adjust your living expenses and you forget but you are socking it away for a future.  My oldest already has a nice little chunk growing at 26.

Anyway. Cheers to you and best of luck.

----------


## Shutree

> Thought about an update a couple weeks ago but let it pass and now I’m ready to do it.
> 
> It’s been a tough 4 years but we’re in the last leg of this Washington State University journey.
> 
> She’s on her third and final change of major. Started off pursuing a nursing degree and now it’s down to just a plain vanilla General Studies degree with a Human Development emphasis.
> 
> After being a fairly decent high school student with a solid GPA she’s barely put much effort into it hovering around a 2.25 GPA.
> 
> Won’t graduate on time next month and will need another semester. But I’m done and have drawn a line in the sand.
> ...



Wow, 14 years this thread. Well done for staying with her. It isn't easy letting them go. I have done it four times and they are all following their own paths now. All turned out okay.
Many years ago a friend gave me a book with this piece, which has stayed with me. Maybe you know it already. 

On Children
Kahlil Gibran - 1883-1931

And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children.
     And he said:
     Your children are not your children.
     They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
     They come through you but not from you,
     And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

     You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
     For they have their own thoughts.
     You may house their bodies but not their souls,
     For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
     You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
     For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
     You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
     The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
     Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
     For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.

----------


## panama hat

> Those are the only silver bullets I have left for her.


You're a great father, SK . . . Not everyone knows what is good for the at such a young age

----------


## tomcat

> You're a great father, SK . . . Not everyone knows what is good for the ______ at such a young age


...goose? gander?...moose? panda?...

----------


## panama hat

> ...goose? gander?...moose? panda?...


'm'   :Confused:

----------


## tomcat

> 'm'





> You're a great father, SK . . . Not everyone knows what is good for the 'm' at such a young age


...ok, now it makes sense...

----------


## Saint Willy

Darn frustrating, I can imagine. 

My eldest is just about to turn 18 and has decided that he doesn't need to go to University. He has a couple of uncles who have convinced him that you can earn more money in sales and that University is a waste of time. 

 :Irked:

----------


## panama hat

He's almost 18 already????  Sweet black baby Jesus . . . the time . . . 





> My eldest is just about to turn 18 and has decided that he doesn't need to go to University.


Well, not everyone needs to go to university ... it's just more difficult for those who have to accept this.




> He has a couple of uncles who have convinced him that you can earn more money in sales and that University is a waste of time.


Aaah, outside influences . . . love 'em.

----------


## nidhogg

> Darn frustrating, I can imagine. 
> 
> My eldest is just about to turn 18 and has decided that he doesn't need to go to University. He has a couple of uncles who have convinced him that you can earn more money in sales and that University is a waste of time.


Oh wow.  I would hit the damn roof, and would not take that well.  

Maybe try and angle it as  a "gap year" for him to see how it goes?

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## raycarey

> My eldest is just about to turn 18 and has decided that he doesn't need to go to University.


he might be right....statistically unlikely....but it's possible.

and two things to remember:

1.  he can always start university when he's 19, 20, 21...or whatever..... if/when he realizes that it's harder out there without a degree.
2.  this would be the ideal time to take a gap year or two....why pay full tuition for what is likely to turn into a year of online learning?

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## tomcat

> Maybe try and angle it as  a "gap year" for him to see how it goes?


...sounds like a good idea...coupled with a gradual reduction of support until he decides that the one who pays the piper calls the tune...

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## Saint Willy

> He's almost 18 already????  Sweet black baby Jesus . . . the time . . .


I know, right. 




> Oh wow.  I would hit the damn roof, and would not take that well.  
> 
> Maybe try and angle it as  a "gap year" for him to see how it goes?


I pretty much did, and given he lives with my ex currently, I wasn't real happy with her either. Gap year is what I am thinking and hoping, I'm also hoping that this COVID crisis will show him what happens to those with little safety net. He already lost his sales job. But then picked up another part time job the very same week.




> he might be right....statistically unlikely....but it's possible.
> 
> and two things to remember:
> 
> 1.  he can always start university when he's 19, 20, 21...or whatever..... if/when he realizes that it's harder out there without a degree.
> 2.  this would be the ideal time to take a gap year or two....why pay full tuition for what is likely to turn into a year of online learning?


Yep, I'm hoping he doesn't take too long on a gap year or two to return to study. 





> ...sounds like a good idea...coupled with a gradual reduction of support until he decides that the one who pays the piper calls the tune...


Unfortunately with that, his mom is happy to pay.

anyway, I didnt mean to take away from StoreKeeper's daughter thread. 

But at least she's got the degree, then she can mess around a bit, learn a few lessons without harm done.

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## OhOh

Parents can and do offer guidance and assistance. 

Daughters and sons, take control eventually. 

Mum and dad are always there.

It's life, always has been .

Death .................

The will is read.

End.

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## jabir

> he might be right....statistically unlikely....but it's possible.
> 
> and two things to remember:
> 
> 1.  he can always start university when he's 19, 20, 21...or whatever..... if/when he realizes that it's harder out there without a degree.
> 2.  this would be the ideal time to take a gap year or two....why pay full tuition for what is likely to turn into a year of online learning?


*1 - yep, and heavily influenced by *2

*2 - fully agree, under the circumstances.

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## Storekeeper

> anyway, I didnt mean to take away from StoreKeeper's daughter thread. .


No worries. A couple of good points were brought up. The second half of what was supposed to be my daughter’s final semester suddenly turned into all online classes. And the fall semester could very well end up being all online too. Not sure how this is going to work out. My daughter seems to think online is more work.

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## Storekeeper

Time to close out and archive this thread:

The kid graduated in December 2020.
Got US citizenship in February 2021.

That US citizenship officially and forever ended her dependent on me status.

Turns 23 today! And not married and not pregnant! Hooyah!

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## Joe 90

Proud dad moments!

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## Loy Toy

Great news mate. You must be very proud.

My daughter is in the throws of selecting a Uni here.

She must sit for a number of entrance exams which she has been doing for the last 6 months.

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## Buckaroo Banzai

> Time to close out and archive this thread:
> 
> The kid graduated in December 2020.
> Got US citizenship in February 2021.
> 
> That US citizenship officially and forever ended her dependent on me status.
> 
> Turns 23 today! And not married and not pregnant! Hooyah!


Don' t worry about it too much.  LOL easy for me to say right? But she will find her own way. the same way you did when you were her age. 
My Daughter is the about the same age (24) and I am having the same issues. We want to guide them, and for them not to make some of the same mistakes we made, but we forget that the mistakes we made help make us who we are. 
So to make you feel a little better let me tell you a bit about my daughter. First we have a very nice house in a very good neighborhood near the beach in Florida, We are coming to Thailand May 4th (god and the Thai government willing) and wont be back for at least 2 years,  and offer her to stay there for free, but Nooo , she has to move to Asheville, NC , Eight hours away.  She is doing her Bachelor's degree on line. Pre Law.
So the other day she calls me and asks me if I knew anything about Photovoltaic Cells. I said " some, why do you ask?)  She said her and her friend wanted to buy a van and convert it to live in and travel the country, ( her friend is a girl also)   What!! are you crazy?  You are going from "My daughter the lawyer, to my Daughter the homeless person? I said.
So go ahead, laugh!!   are you done laughing? Let me know when you are 'cause I have a lot more to say.

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## katie23

@buckaroo - apparently vanlife is seen as hip & cool among the Gen Z & millenial crowd. So many vanlife channels on YT. 

If I was a bit younger & not committed to paying for real estate, I'd probably want/ try the digital nomad lifestyle too. I'm lucky (in a way) that I've done some travelling & hiking pre-covid, so I'm not feeling that "my youth is being wasted by covid", which is what many younger people are experiencing now.

@SK - congrats on the achievements of the daughter! Proud dad!  :Smile:

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## Storekeeper

By the way her getting US citizenship is HUGE for me ... totally absolves me of any further financial responsibility. Now she’s just like any other adult in the USA ... on her own ... sink or swim. 

Sure, I’m proud of her accomplishments. But, I’m really relieved and thankful this chapter is closed. 

Last thing I’ll say is this ... feels very good when she often chooses my side or refuses to take sides against me in disputes with her Thai family ...  ::chitown::

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## aging one

You did one hell of a job raising, educating and assimilating her into the real world SK. Superb job bro..

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## Saint Willy

> By the way her getting US citizenship is HUGE for me ... totally absolves me of any further financial responsibility. Now she’s just like any other adult in the USA ... on her own ... sink or swim.


Sounds like she is swimming. That's a measure of her upbringing!

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## Buckaroo Banzai

> By the way her getting US citizenship is HUGE for me ... totally absolves me of any further financial responsibility. Now she’s just like any other adult in the USA ... on her own ... sink or swim.


Yea , good luck with that. LOL

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## Neverna

> By the way her getting US citizenship is HUGE for me ... totally absolves me of any further financial responsibility. Now shes just like any other adult in the USA ... on her own ... sink or swim. 
> 
> Sure, Im proud of her accomplishments. But, Im really relieved and thankful this chapter is closed. 
> 
> Last thing Ill say is this ... feels very good when she often chooses my side or refuses to take sides against me in disputes with her Thai family ...


Congratulations to you both, Stores.

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## Storekeeper

> You did one hell of a job raising, educating and assimilating her into the real world SK. Superb job bro..


Thank you bruh for letting me vent a couple times ... it helped me through that rough patch a couple years ago with her.

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## Shutree

> Sure, I’m proud of her accomplishments.


As you should be, well done sir.
Wherever she goes in future she'll have many memories you gave her which will travel with her.

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## strigils

> Sure, I’m proud of her accomplishments. But, I’m really relieved and thankful this chapter is closed.


Well done SK, you can only prepare them for the world as best you can, you can't shelter them from it.

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## Storekeeper

Well my girl finally has her first job. It’s a US federal government job so it’ll still be a few months before she starts. Gotta jump through the background investigation hoops first. Some sort of entry level clerk job in the Child Development Center on one of the bases near here. Basically is where the active duty military folks take their kids when they head off to work every day. So plenty of opportunity for upward mobility. Great bennies … all federal holidays are paid and there are like 13 or 14 of them. Plus 13 days sick live and 13 days annual leave from the start. Medical and dental packages available. Also a retirement plan called FERS which in her case she’ll be able to retire from after 30 years at age 54. And a separate Thrift Savings Plan with 5% matching. No help from me. She got the job through her own connections.

Frequently watch the Thailand expat You Tuber stories and compared to the ones who are older I’m often reminded that the path I chose for my family is much different than most of them. To each his own. You do you and I’ll do me. But, honestly … I find them often to be intellectually dishonest spins that frequently leave out bits and pieces of information about what is being left on the table when they don’t give their family the same advantages they had that gave them the ability to retire in Thailand.

Anyhoo … my connection to Thailand is primarily my wife and daughter. I don’t have pictures of my travels across Thailand or the food I ate but there’s a degree from Washington State University on my living room wall and a host of other bennies they both now have that I won’t mention.

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## malmomike77

^ congrats to her SK, big step that first job.

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## panama hat

Brilliant, well done . . . one less worry.  :Smile:

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## tomcat

> there’s a degree from Washington State University on my living room wall


...just hope it's not pasted to a dart board...

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## Iceman123

Well done, nice to see a great result

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## MarilynMonroe

> Well my girl finally has her first job. It’s a US federal government job so it’ll still be a few months before she starts. Gotta jump through the background investigation hoops first. Some sort of entry level clerk job in the Child Development Center on one of the bases near here. Basically is where the active duty military folks take their kids when they head off to work every day. So plenty of opportunity for upward mobility. Great bennies … all federal holidays are paid and there are like 13 or 14 of them. Plus 13 days sick live and 13 days annual leave from the start. Medical and dental packages available. Also a retirement plan called FERS which in her case she’ll be able to retire from after 30 years at age 54. And a separate Thrift Savings Plan with 5% matching. No help from me. She got the job through her own connections.


This job sounds amazing! Congrats to your girl and to you! Sounds like she is set for life.

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## Switch

> This job sounds amazing! Congrats to your girl and to you! Sounds like she is set for life.


A government job with full benefits and great access to a decent future. You will be rightfully proud of her achievements. It doesn’t get much better if she can stick at it. Congratulations to her for making the most of it.

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## Storekeeper

> This job sounds amazing! Congrats to your girl and to you! Sounds like she is set for life.






> A government job with full benefits and great access to a decent future. You will be rightfully proud of her achievements. It doesn’t get much better if she can stick at it. Congratulations to her for making the most of it.


She seems to know what she's doing. From the beginning a couple years back she's been talking about this type of job in Japan. I'd just roll my eyes and giver the "yeah, right" look and then COVID totally blew up her plans to immediately head to Japan.  And now here she goes landing this job that's like a total guarantee to get her back to Yokosuka, Japan working on the US Navy base there. And without my help.

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## Switch

> She seems to know what she's doing. From the beginning a couple years back she's been talking about this type of job in Japan. I'd just roll my eyes and giver the "yeah, right" look and then COVID totally blew up her plans to immediately head to Japan.  And now here she goes landing this job that's like a total guarantee to get her back to Yokosuka, Japan working on the US Navy base there. And without my help.


Everything happens for a reason. I hope this story has a happy ending mate.

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## Bonecollector

Sounds good!

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## DrWilly

> And without my help.


That's gotta make you the proudest! 

Of course, we'll help our kids, but seeing them do it on their own is the best!

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