#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Teaching In Thailand >  >  How are Thai Children Educated Regarding "Democracy"

## OhOh

There are many posters here working, in some way, in the Education arena. I wonder how the introduction of other experiences from other sources would be accepted?

I came across an article recently from an Canadian who has had a relationship with an ameristani who was approached by a Russian and invited to teach Russian children a subject regarding "political education". 

Here is a link to article:

https://patrickarmstrong.ca/2018/06/20/yes-putin-once-dreamed-the-american-dream/


and here a video where the ameristan educator speaks of the experience:




The educator appears to confirm the experiment was and possible is still being taught. The video is dated 2015.

----------


## cisco999

Please keep them stupid.

Now continue on.

----------


## HuangLao

Democracy. What type of so-called Democracy might we be speaking of?

The consistently politically corrupt government blessed corporatism [and deep associated practices] that numbingly disguises itself as a benign and benevolent democracy? 
And universally practiced.......in unveritable forms.

----------


## Neverna

How are Thai Children Educated Regarding "Democracy"?

The idea is taught as part of the curriculum in primary school from year one in Social Studies classes.

----------


## Maanaam

> How are Thai Children Educated Regarding "Democracy""
> 
> The idea is taught as part of the curriculum in primary school - in year one.


When they've got no idea or interest.
After that, it's accept what we feed you.
I only ever broached the subject, very innocuously, with my M5 class of very bright students. I felt the discomfort immediately and tactfully diverted to something else. I did plant a seed though, because they were both my English and my maths students. Talking about averages and populations and how the average population is not the brightest, thus the majority choices may not be the most intelligent choices and it's up to the intelligent citizens to educate the masses.
It's the biggest flaw of an unqualified democracy that the mob rules, effectively.

----------


## Neverna

The Basic Education Core Curriculum 2008

Social Studies, Religion and Culture

*Strand 2*: 
Civics, Culture and Living in Society

*Standard So2.2*: 
Understanding of political and administrative systems of the present society; adherence to, faith in and upholding of the democratic form of government under constitutional monarchy

----------


## HuangLao

> How are Thai Children Educated Regarding "Democracy"?
> 
> The idea is taught as part of the curriculum in primary school from year one in Social Studies classes.


Yes, I believe so. 
And usually continues through the secondary level, in one form or another.

----------


## Maanaam

> adherence to,





> faith in





> and upholding of





> under constitutional monarchy


Get them while they're young and impressionable.

Will just pointing those things out raise the ire of Birding and AO?  :Smile: 

LONG LIVE the King!!!

----------


## VocalNeal

Maybe someone can explain what they think democracy is in the real practical sense and then we can understand what Thai children can be taught. 

Something like, a pickup truck drives around the village with loud speakers and then the village cheif tells my parents where to put an X on a form. Then a guy goes to bangko and trries to get his share of the budget so he can pay the village chief for his help.

Or every four years we the public get to decide who we want to represent us in parliament and when the result is decided the government does what it wants and if we don't like it we have to wait 4 years to try and change the people. 

Or , Every so often we get to vote we are bombarded with opinions from social media to the point we can't tell who is going to do what and who we can believe . So we pick someone to go to Washington so they can make a fortune from lobbyists and vote fro things that large corporations want to do.

So what is democracy?  I'm not looking for the dictionary definition or some idealist twaddle.

----------


## Topper

LOL,

Last year I taught a bit of civics, going over the various forms of governments.  I ensured every student there knew the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship.

----------


## HuangLao

> Maybe someone can explain what they think democracy is in the real practical sense and then we can understand what Thai children can be taught. 
> 
> Something like, a pickup truck drives around the village with loud speakers and then the village cheif tells my parents where to put an X on a form. Then a guy goes to bangko and trries to get his share of the budget so he can pay the village chief for his help.
> 
> Or every four years we the public get to decide who we want to represent us in parliament and when the result is decided the government does what it wants and if we don't like it we have to wait 4 years to try and change the people. 
> 
> Or , Every so often we get to vote we are bombarded with opinions from social media to the point we can't tell who is going to do what and who we can believe . So we pick someone to go to Washington so they can make a fortune from lobbyists and vote fro things that large corporations want to do.
> 
> So what is democracy?  I'm not looking for the dictionary definition or some idealist twaddle.



Or...perhaps, Thai children witness and observe the everyday freedoms, independence, and self-sufficiency [of families and community] that has gone on forever - seemingly contradicting the highly manufactured, and outsider charged, ideals of such political/economic systems may ensue - even when said outsiders don't really understand what this supposed democracy state might be, as they've never really experienced, or practiced, the beloved ideals themselves.

----------


## Maanaam

> LOL,
> 
> Last year I taught a bit of civics, going over the various forms of governments.  I ensured every student there knew the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship.


Lol, but sadly the majority of them know that when a farang (or  Thai with anything but a yellow shirt on) points these distinctions out, it is information to be blindly ignored.

----------


## Maanaam

> Or...perhaps,


Yeah, perhaps.  :smiley laughing: 
And perhaps pigs fly.

----------


## HuangLao

> Lol, but sadly the majority of them know that when a farang (or  Thai with anything but a yellow shirt on) points these distinctions out, it is information to be blindly ignored.



I believe you might want to get out more and expose yourself to experience a variety of Thai young ones. 
You might be surprised. 

Considering, that you insist on taking everything in from your very isolated textbook stereotypical vision.
Pathetic. Haven't a clue.

Superior Farang Illusions.

----------


## cyrille

> I believe you might want to get out more and expose yourself to experience a variety of Thai young ones. 
> You might be surprised. 
> 
> Considering, that you insist on taking everything in from your very isolated textbook stereotypical vision.
> Pathetic. Haven't a clue,


Did I read that correctly?

A guy in Portland just told someone working in a Thai school that he hasn't a clue about what goes on in Thai schools?

You're a really special case, jeff.

----------


## Topper

> Lol, but sadly the majority of them know that when a farang (or Thai with anything but a yellow shirt on) points these distinctions out, it is information to be blindly ignored.


Oddly enough, I agree with Jeff [by the way, how's the weather in Portland?].

All Thais understand the difference, the children are taught that to disagree with anyone in authority is a social mistake and it makes them a bad person.

In the time I've been here, I've seen the airport shutdown for months and people shot dead in the street, both civilians and army in protests against the government.    I had a firefight one night just a couple of blocks down from where I live between students and red shirts. 

People know the difference, believe me.

----------


## Neverna

> How are Thai Children Educated Regarding "Democracy"?
> 
> The idea is taught as part of the curriculum in primary school from year one in Social Studies classes.





> Yes, I believe so. 
> And usually continues through the secondary level, in one form or another.


Here are the Grade Level Indicators for grades 1 to 12. 


*Grade 1*
1. Tell the structure, roles and duties of family members in school.
2. Specify their own roles, rights and duties in family and in school.
3. Participate in decisionmaking and take part in family and school activities through democratic processes.

*Grade 2*
1. Explain the relationship between themselves and family members as part of the community.
2. Specify those with the roles and authority in decisionmaking in school and community.

*Grade 3*
1. Specify the roles and duties of community members in participating in various activities through democratic processes.
2. Analyse differences of decision-making processes in class, school and community by means of direct voting and by electing representatives to vote.
3. Cite examples of changes in classroom, school and community resulting from decisions of individuals and groups of persons.

Grade 4
1. Explain sovereign power and the importance of the democratic system.
2. Explain the people’s roles and duties in the election process.
3. Explain the importance of the monarchy in the democratic form of government under constitutional monarchy.

*Grade 5*
1. Explain the structure, power, duties and importance of local administration.
2. Specify the roles, duties and methods of assuming posts in local administrations.
3. Analyse the benefits to be received by communities from local administration organisations.

*Grade 6*
1. Compare the roles and duties of local administrations and those of the central government.
2. Participate in various activities that promote democracy in local areas and in the country.
3. Discuss the role and importance of exercising electoral rights in the democratic system.

*Grade 7*
1. Explain in brief the principles, intents, structure and important substance of the current Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand.
2. Explain the role of balancing sovereign powers in the current Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand.
3. Observe the provisions of the current Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand concerning themselves.

*Grade 8*
1. Explain the legislative process. 
2.Analyse the political and administrative data and informationaffecting the present Thaisociety.

*Grade 9*
1. Explain various forms of government adopted at present. 
2. Make a comparative analysis of Thailand’s form of government and those of other countries with democratic systems of government.
3. Analyse various provisions of the current Constitution relating to elections, participation and checking application of state power.
4. Analyse problematic issues that hamper democratic development of Thailand and propose guidelines for remedial
measures.

*Grades 10 to 12*
1. Analyse important political issues of various countries from various sources of data as well as propose guidelines
for remedial measures.
2. Propose political and administrative guidelines leading to creating understanding and mutual benefits among countries.
3. Analyse the importance and necessity to uphold the democratic form of government under constitutional monarchy.
4. Propose guidelines and participate in checking application of state power.

----------


## TuskegeeBen

An outstanding, and interesting post. I really enjoyed the video. Thank you for sharing  :smilie_clap:

----------


## TuskegeeBen

> I believe you might want to get out more and expose yourself to experience a variety of Thai young ones. 
> You might be surprised. 
> 
> Considering, that you insist on taking everything in from your very isolated textbook stereotypical vision.
> Pathetic. Haven't a clue.
> 
> Superior Farang Illusions.


 *Ditto!*  :smilie_clap:

----------


## TuskegeeBen

> Did I read that correctly?
> 
> A guy in Portland just told someone working in a Thai school that he hasn't a clue about what goes on in Thai schools?
> 
> You're a really special case, jeff.


Do you seriously believe that a *real* school teacher (anywhere) has the time, or head-space, to be posting comments (on any forum), throughout the morning, noon & night,.....*huh?
*

----------


## Maanaam

> Do you seriously believe that a *real* school teacher (anywhere) has the time, or head-space, to be posting comments (on any forum), throughout the morning, noon & night,.....*huh?
> *


 :smiley laughing:  You have no idea what my speciality is nor who my students are. It's quite unimaginative to assume every teacher is a 40 hour a week, 9 to 5 worker.

----------


## mark45y

Am I the only one who actually watched the video?  He never mentions what democracy is.  It is regular free elections and a free press and police/army protection of those freedoms.  A judiciary and relatively stable constitution (rules) to specify those freedoms.  A bunch of other stuff but without the regular free elections it is not a democracy.  One candidate elections are not an election.  Thai people don't know this or hide it very well if they do.  Someone comes to the village and pays you to vote for a particular person, kind of like Chicago.

The guy in the video sounds like a Russian shill like Jenna Abrams.  Is he on the Mueller list of Russian trolls who interfered with the election?

----------


## OhOh

> Here are the Grade Level Indicators for grades 1 to 12.


Thanks for that. It appears more comprehensive that anything I remember being taught during my school days.




> I really enjoyed the video.


I read the article first but the guy's video was great insight to somebody from his military background and into his experience with the education system along how he, as a foreigner, his views were accepted and acted upon, allegedly, at the highest of levels. But then as he said, the infighting to be heard can be brutal, but once a decision was made, everyone accepted it and got down to ensure a successful outcome was achieved.

----------


## mark45y

President Donald Trump is the target of an ongoing "Deep State"  conspiracy to prevent him establishing better relations with Russia and  eventually to drive him from office, retired Canadian diplomat Patrick  Armstrong told Sputnik.

Sorry but reading the above I think you have been duped and got a hold of a Russian Troll Farmer.  Check out his writings https://patrickarmstrong.ca/

----------


## Switch

> Democracy. What type of so-called Democracy might we be speaking of?
> 
> The consistently politically corrupt government blessed corporatism [and deep associated practices] that numbingly disguises itself as a benign and benevolent democracy? 
> And universally practiced.......in unveritable forms.


A least you are familiar with the shortcomings of US political science. Unveritable is not actually a word by the way.

----------


## Switch

> Or...perhaps, Thai children witness and observe the everyday freedoms, independence, and self-sufficiency [of families and community] that has gone on forever - seemingly contradicting the highly manufactured, and outsider charged, ideals of such political/economic systems may ensue - even when said outsiders don't really understand what this supposed democracy state might be, as they've never really experienced, or practiced, the beloved ideals themselves.


Everyday freedoms like chucking tons of packaging out the car window?

Or everyday freedoms like sorting through black plastic bags dumped at the roadside for valuable items of recycling material?

That ha nothing to do with education. It’s a simple learned behavior, passed down by adults. The posh western phrase for this is experiential learning. That’s how Thais become shit plumbers and electricians.

----------


## Maanaam

> Here are the Grade Level Indicators for grades 1 to 12.


In depth. On paper at least.



> It appears more comprehensive that anything I remember being taught during my school days.


Ditto. 
Makes me think it's just for show and not seriously applied, or applied with much of the official line heavily implied. My 17 and 18 year old students are very bright and will be going to the best universities in Thailand and abroad, but even they will not talk about the generalities of politics without even getting into domestic specifics. Not even in private. What's the point of teaching these things if nobody can discuss issues openly?
Perhaps therein lies the lessons they learn. But act or speak out upon their private ideas? Never.

----------


## Maanaam

> Unveritable is not actually a word by the way.


And if it were a word, it was used in a very weird grammatical way to try (but failing) to sound educated ...as usual.

----------


## aging one

> Grade 7
> 1. Explain in brief the principles, intents, structure and important substance of the current Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand.
> 2. Explain the role of balancing sovereign powers in the current Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand.
> 3. Observe the provisions of the current Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand concerning themselves.
> 
> Grade 8
> 1. Explain the legislative process. 
> 2.Analyse the political and administrative data and informationaffecting the present Thaisociety.
> 
> ...


Well they must have slept through those lessons if actually taught. When they get to university most dont have a clue how their government works. Which is just what the government wants...

----------


## cyrille

> My 17 and 18 year old students are very bright and will be going to the best universities in Thailand and abroad, but even they will not talk about the generalities of politics without even getting into domestic specifics. Not even in private.


How do you know what your 17 and 18-year-old students talk about in private?

----------


## mark45y

> A least you are familiar with the shortcomings of US political science. Unveritable is not actually a word by the way.


I think you have to ask what are the most important things that make up a democracy.  1. Free and fair elections.  2.  Free press.  3.  Independent judiciary.  4.  Stable constitution.  

Were any of these mentioned in the opening video?

----------


## OhOh

> Sorry but reading the above I think you have been duped and got a hold of a Russian Troll Farmer.


Fie, fie upon thee, strumpet!

To comment on the OP subject perchance? To comment on the author or printer of words casteth such wretchedness.

----------


## mark45y

> Fie, fie upon thee, strumpet!
> 
> To comment on the OP subject perchance? To comment on the author or printer of words casteth such wretchedness.


Ya.  He never mentions what a democracy is, in fact avoids the issue entirely and he has no education credentials.  I think trying to paint a picture of Russia that is 100% false.

----------


## HuangLao

So....where is this beloved ideal of democracy practiced?

Examples anyone?

----------


## Topper

> Examples anyone?


Switzerland is the first that comes to mind.  

How about you, Jeff, got any examples?

----------


## cyrille

He seems to constantly come from a position that people feel their own country is perfect.

Which renders his input meaningless when we don’t.

Which is pretty much all the time. :Very Happy:

----------


## mark45y

My wife told me democracy is different in Thailand.  I handed her a dictionary and asked she look up Thai democracy.  It's a good thing I can cook and get my companionship from the dog.

----------


## mark45y

> Switzerland is the first that comes to mind.  
> 
> How about you, Jeff, got any examples?


Iceland, Norway and Denmark?

----------


## aging one

> Iceland, Norway and Denmark?


Democratic socialism. Come on dude you are an economics professor.   :smiley laughing:

----------


## mark45y

> Democratic socialism. Come on dude you are an economics professor.


Do I get paid extra for the lessons in political science?  Sure a country can be both democratic and socialistic.  If the majority of the people want socialism then they can vote in leaders who will implement that.  

Nothing that says a democracy has to be capitalistic.  There is your lesson for the day.

----------


## Topper

> There is your lesson for the day.


Could you remind us again what the objective of your lesson was, teacher?

----------


## Switch

> Do I get paid extra for the lessons in political science?  Sure a country can be both democratic and socialistic.  If the majority of the people want socialism then they can vote in leaders who will implement that.  
> 
> Nothing that says a democracy has to be capitalistic.  There is your lesson for the day.


Only in the EU are democratic member governments obliged to follow socialist dogma

----------


## mark45y

> Could you remind us again what the objective of your lesson was, teacher?


A democracy can be socialistic or capitalistic it depends on what the people vote for. The poster who was trying to mock me actually didn't know what a democracy is.   It has been a while but isn't that taught in about 4th grade?  I could be wrong.  I have never taught grade school in the USA.

----------


## jabir

> Do I get paid extra for the lessons in political science?  Sure a country can be both democratic and socialistic.  If the majority of the people want socialism then they can vote in leaders who will implement that.  
> 
> Nothing that says a democracy has to be capitalistic.  There is your lesson for the day.


So what happens when people exercise their democratic right to vote for democracy and then discover they got Socialism instead?

----------


## mark45y

> So what happens when people exercise their democratic right to vote for democracy and then discover they got Socialism instead?


It is socialism vs capitalism.  Democracy vs totalitarianism.   You can have a socialist democracy or a capitalistic democracy that is an economic system not a political system.  You are confusing political, social and economic systems.  For example Bernie Sandars is an American Socialist.  He could have been elected and America would have been on the way to being a socialist country but still a democracy - no problem.

----------


## HuangLao

???????

----------


## Neverna

Mark45y seems to be hijacking this thread a bit.  The thread is in the "Teaching in Thailand" forum and the thread is about how Thai children are educated regarding democracy.

----------


## Switch

TBF Nev I did kind of lead him off topic by mentioning the EU. lol

----------


## cyrille

> Bernie Sandars is an American Socialist.  He could have been elected and America would have been on the way to being a socialist country but still a democracy - no problem.


My word.

So this American Socialist who didn't get elected would have been 'no problem'.

Because...why?

Because it would have been _American_ socialism.

A more satisfying socialism.

A socialism that satisfies.

Breath it in cowboys.

Inhale. 



(results may vary: get cancer call someone)

----------


## mark45y

> My word.
> 
> So this American Socialist who didn't get elected would have been 'no problem'.
> 
> Because...why?
> 
> Because it would have been _American_ socialism.
> 
> A more satisfying socialism.
> ...


Socialism has a long history in America.



Do you want the whole lecture or can you use google?

----------


## TuskegeeBen

> Do I get paid extra for the lessons in political science?  Sure a country can be both democratic and socialistic.  If the majority of the people want socialism then they can vote in leaders who will implement that.  
> 
> Nothing that says a democracy has to be capitalistic.  There is your lesson for the day.


Obviously you're here (on TD) for the entertainment value only. Apparently, communicating with Dolphins & Whales, is becoming a bit stodgy, eh? 

Try debating with a group of Chimpanzees, or Orangutans, at the nearest Zoo, instead. Guaranteed, a far more rewarding experience. Cheers!  ::chitown::

----------

