#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  The costs and perils of dating a non-Isaan girl

## Fstop

This thread will probably garner me loads of reds from the Isaan apologists, but when I asked about this on IA's marriage thread over on ajarn I was pretty much ignored. My question is twofold: 

1. If dating a girl who is NOT from Isaan, is sinsott still expected to be paid and is there a monthly monetary expectation from the parents?

2. What (if any) are the unexpected costs/tribulations/perils of dating said girl?

The latter will most likely vary on a case by case basis, but I am truly curious. 

It was a year before I asked my Isaan lass how much sinsott was. I gawked at 200k and figured that if I stayed with her long enough the price would go down. But after another year, the price has actually gone up! Add 10k a month to her parents and who knows what other surprises lay in store, so I'm not very optimistic on our future together unless a miracle occurs and either A. Her parents die, or B. They come to the realization that I don't have the money and put their daughter's happiness above their huge financial request(s).

If the relationship does end (which I expect it will), I'll be looking for someone from a similar educational and socio-economic background. Just want to know the expected pitfalls, I guess.

I mean, it was almost a year into the relationship before I even HEARD of such a thing called sinsott!

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## ChiangMai noon

> If dating a girl who is NOT from Isaan, is sinsott still expected to be paid and is there a monthly monetary expectation from the parents?


doesn't this depend on the family rather than the region?

My in laws never asked for anything and therefore got nothing.

I don't think it's peculiar to Issan though.
one of my students was off to her sister's wedding in Phukett last week.
The Thai groom was paying a 500,000 baht sinsott and was a wealthy man.





> What (if any) are the unexpected costs/tribulations/perils of dating said girl?


is it really possible to generalise this much?

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## Fstop

> is it really possible to generalise this much?


Yeah....that's what I'm afraid of. I don't mean to generalise, just curious what others' experierences have been.

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## AntRobertson

> doesn't this depend on the family rather than the region?
> 
> ...
> 
> is it really possible to generalise this much?


I'd agree with CMN's points too (actually I'd green him for them but have already used his repo allocation today  :Very Happy:  ).

Dare I say it but it's a matter of social class rather than location.  Of course that being said I guess Issan is one of the poorer areas and to be honest what I know about it would fit on a postage stamp, a small one..

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## Texpat

I paid zero baht and she's as Issan as they get.

The perils of marrying a non-Issan girl are many.

* There's the whole expectation of a hi-rise on Ploenchit and a 5-series in the basement.
* A baht of gold per month is the bare minimum.
* Her whims and demands are flightier than Suvarnabhumi at rush hour.
* The hoops get smaller and higher, and expected reaction tolerance narrower -- jump monkey, jump!
* Your happiness has a pricetag. Her happiness is priceless. 
* There's a good chance if you marry one of the _coveted_ hiso Chinky gals, you'll be expected to bathe her in silk and gemstones. Oh, and you'll never see her pussy again.

Other than that, they're all about the same.

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## Mr Earl

^^So what did you have to pay to marry the rich girl?

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## Spin

Abuse of the sin sot tradition in Isaan is rampant and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing it. Thais from other regions dislike Isaan people for this reason along with others.
However sin sot is not regional thing its a Thai thing so you stand a good chance of encountering it wherever you are.




> I'll be looking for someone from a similar educational and socio-economic background.


 :goldcup:  Greenies for that, learn a bit of Thai and get out of the tourist areas, find a girl with rich parents, theres plenty about.

I have to say though the numbers you are talking about for sin sot are fok all. Many silly cnuts in Isaan have been juiced for 20 times that and then tossed out on the street.

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## ChiangMai noon

also, unless you consider romance well and truly dead, what's wrong with the "If this is real love, then i'm not paying diddly" argument.

i don't think this is all cut and dried and marked up on the packet.

I wouldn't have paid a sinsott had it been requested.
that's for sure.

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## Fstop

> Dare I say it but it's a matter of social class rather than location. Of course that being said I guess Issan is one of the poorer areas and to be honest what I know about it would fit on a postage stamp, a small one..


 
^Yeah that's my experience as well. Since it's one of the poorest areas, I just assume that most of the people who are from there are poor. It's very rare that I meet an Isaan girl who is of a similar social class as myself.

If it is the family, then okay - answered. I pondered over even starting this thread - don't want to get flamed here.

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## AntRobertson

> also, unless you consider romance well and truly dead, what's wrong with the "If this is real love, then i'm not paying diddly" argument.


I 'paid' because it was a part of the whole ceremony thing, part of the event I guess.

Symbolic more than anything else.  It was all returned following the ceremony but then I offered half of it back to help pay for the wedding.

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## ChiangMai noon

> but then I offered half of it back to help pay for the wedding.


the money in little envelopes from the guests paid for the wedding that we had and then some.

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## Spin

> The perils of marrying a non-Issan girl are many.
> 
> * There's the whole expectation of a hi-rise on Ploenchit and a 5-series in the basement.
> * A baht of gold per month is the bare minimum.
> * Her whims and demands are flightier than Suvarnabhumi at rush hour.
> * The hoops get smaller and higher, and expected reaction tolerance narrower -- jump monkey, jump!
> * Your happiness has a pricetag. Her happiness is priceless. 
> * There's a good chance if you marry one of the coveted hiso Chinky gals, you'll be expected to bathe her in silk and gemstones. Oh, and you'll never see her pussy again.


Are you telling us this is how it is for every non skint Isaan girl?

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## AntRobertson

> the money in little envelopes from the guests paid for the wedding that we had and then some.


Our guests were a bit tight-fisted.  Free-loading bastards.  :Sad:

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## Little Chuchok

> ^^So what did you have to pay to marry the rich girl?


Fcuking heaps!

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## Texpat

> the money in little envelopes from the guests paid for the wedding that we had and then some.


Same here, minus alcohol. And I believe I consumed most of that anyway.  :Smile: 

Married in Laos so quite cheap to begin with. 

Sinsot? Never.

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## peterpan

Been to 4 thai weddings all in the South, each groom paid sin sot. Coincidently about the cost of a new pick up, which father in Law purchased the following week. For myself my tilac is the youngset of 11 and her Parents had both kicked off when we got married.
 I wouldn't pay it anyway, she wants a Farang it comes with my customs and rituals, so we got married in NZ. Mind you the wedding teher cost me alot more than any sinsot because my piss head freinds drank the Golf Club, where we had the reception, bone dry. If the club had a swimming pool they would have drunk that as well.

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## Thetyim

Take a long , hard look at the family and judge what you are getting into because this is where the requests/demands will come from.
Do the other family members work and are they employers or employees.

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## BobbyTits

> Take a long , hard look at the family and judge what you are getting into because this is where the requests/demands will come from.
> Do the other family members work and are they employers or employees.



Very astute comment  :Smile:

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## Thai Pom

And the Most correct  on the whole thread!!

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## astasinim

As far as im aware, (im sure I read it on TD) sinsot is a Chinese tradition imported by them when they settled in Thailand. I paid, and it covered the costs of the wedding. It was at least 10 times cheaper than a UK wedding, so i was happy, the family was happy, so no drama. Their not rich by any stretch, just humble farmers, with shit loads of land between them. Ive never been asked for money or been asked to get involved in any get rich quick schemes. Ive had one or two of the locals trying it on with me (trying to get some dough out of the stupid falang)in the past, and have always had the sisters step in and tell them to piss off. 
Sinsot is a hotly debated topic. Some people refuse point blank (because of their own belief systems) and others take a more pragmatic point of view. I think its like anywhere in the world. Theres always good and bad, you just have to sort the good from the bad. If you decide the family's no good them move on, because you can guarantee  your wife/GF will listen to family before she listens to you.

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## reinvented

married a thai tiddly
no sinsott
paid the wedding, got it all back in pink envelopes

would never pay sinsott
or a monthly salary to the halfwits

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## Bluecat

> Originally Posted by durianfan
> 
> If dating a girl who is NOT from Isaan, is sinsott still expected to be paid and is there a monthly monetary expectation from the parents?
> 
> 
> doesn't this depend on the family rather than the region?


It does and whether the money is given back to the bride also depends on the family.
And chances that the money will actually go back to the bride after the marriage is probably higher oustside Isaan.
But the sin sot you'll probably need to pay to marry a "Bkk girl" will be much higher also...

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## Fstop

^aye but the sinsott should be given back if it's a BKK girl. Asked my bird one time about that - told her that in most cases it's given back. She claimed she had never heard of such a thing.

Didn't mean for this thread to turn into yet another sinsott debate.....oh well.

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## Bluecat

> ^aye but the sinsott should be given back if it's a BKK girl.


To the girl, not to you.
Not sure you'll ever see it.
Conclusion, an Isaan girl is "cheaper"... :Smile:

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## Texpat

and better.

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## Bluecat

Indeed.
Whatever better means... :Smile:

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## Spin

> an Isaan girl is "cheaper"


You mean financia;ly? or a trashy whore kind of way? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Spin

> an Isaan girl is "cheaper"


You mean financially? or a trashy whore kind of way? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Marmite the Dog

If you paid the sin sot you admit your missus is a whore.

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## paulsmithson

Sin sod is only payable iF the girl is a virgin prior to marriage.

There are some issan girls working in real jobs around the country yes BUT if your girl came from the bar???????????

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## Fabian

> For myself my tilac is the youngset of 11 and her Parents had both kicked off when we got married.


It was such a shock for them?

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## Megahorn

Why would anyone 'date' a girl out here? Never mind marry one

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## Megahorn

Never mind PAY to marry one!!

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## blackgang

> Abuse of the sin sot tradition in Isaan is rampant and they should be ashamed of themselves for doing it. Thais from other regions dislike Isaan people for this reason along with others.


I find that you are correct there Spin, I do know that my wife and her family do rate Issan folks to highly.
I have never been asked for money, sin sod or anything else and when I offer money to help pay for anything it has been refused, I did get to pay some of our share for my Fil funeral expenses.
My wife has 23 years seniority on her govt job as a school teacher and so she never mentions money to me either, I give her money and pay the bills around the house if I get to them before she does or she pays, damn glad I didn't marry Issan, I did have an Issan nanny for my daughter while she was here and I paid her 7K a month and she slept in my bed and bought what ever she wanted and I paid, and she had a fat boy lived with her father in Sahkon Nahkon or what ever it is called over there and she said 3K for his keep,That was 10K a month, so OK then the next month it went to 5K and I said pack up and go take care of him your self and  will take care of my own kid, so the price came back to 3K, the only ones that have tried to fuck me here has been Issan folks, but I rarely go for it.

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## Luckydog

Couple of years ago after we got married in the Pattaya Amphur office, I asked my wife to arrange the Village Wedding (she was from a village near Surin) "How much do you think Mama will want?" I asked her. "About 75000bht" she said.

That was ok with me. But it certainly was NOT with Mama. She wanted 250000bht! I told her to get knotted. We didn't have a Village bash.

Great result! Her greedy Family never speak to me now.......

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## Texpat

^Why would you even ask?

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## mad_dog

I'd want a wife who brought money into the household not one who would be a constant drain and liability. Taking responcibility for the whole tribe is a big one and you'll always be the farang.

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## Rigger

paid 200k and didnt really have a problem with that, they offered 100k back after the wedding but I didnt take it. 
Pay sinsott or not I dont think it makes any differents 




> Sin sod is only payable iF the girl is a virgin prior to marriage.


Someone better tell the issanThais that

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## Happyman

The Chineese connection to sinsot is real!

In Taiwan at least ( the place I know more about ) the standard is that the mans family provide an apartment ( bought cash) and pay the maintenance and utilities until the first child is born ( there are some variations regarding the sex of the child but I never got my head around that bit ).
When the offspring arrives they stop paying bills as soon as the brat starts Kindergarten - and then they pay that instead!!
Only when the child enters the state education system are then deemed to be free of their obligations .

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## mad_dog

> paid 200k and didnt really have a problem with that, they offered 100k back after the wedding but I didnt take it. 
> Pay sinsott or not I dont think it makes any differents 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by paulsmithson
> ...


Bar Girls wouldn't get a dime of Sin Sot from a Thai family.

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## Rigger

> Bar Girls wouldn't get a dime of Sin Sot from a Thai family.


 Been to couple ex long term bar girls marring Thais and the family new and still paid sinsot of 30 K and 1 baht of gold.

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## good2bhappy

Heard you could pay Sin Sot by installment.
If it doesn't work then you have just lost your deposit

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## mad_dog

> Originally Posted by mad_dog
> 
> Bar Girls wouldn't get a dime of Sin Sot from a Thai family.
> 
> 
> Been to couple ex long term bar girls marring Thais and the family new and still paid sinsot of 30 K and 1 baht of gold.


 Fair enough I suppose they would pay if they saw more earning potential if she could catch a koi farang step son as a second husband their investment would be well worth it.

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## goykanok

Sinsott is like a traditional in Thailand.  If the girl's family is conservative, i'm sure they will ask for the Sinsott no matter what social class the bride is.  You can see the example like Tata young, she is a very rich, hi-so, Thai-American girl but get a lot of sinsott from her fiance.

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## Rigger

> Fair enough I suppose they would pay if they saw more earning potential if she could catch a koi farang step son as a second husband their investment would be well worth it.


Yes we all know that Thais are all shallow people only after farangs money  :kma:

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## Spin

> Thais are all shallow people only after farangs money


No they are not!

My gf loves me for my sparkling personality, flat stomach, and stunning good looks :Smile:

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## Texpat

Many Thais, even in the deepest darkest of Issan, have enough sense to realize their daughter will have a better life with a farang than with the best of the available local Thai pool. 

Nothing offered nothing asked.

I'm not saying it's the norm and I'm not saying its the best for everybody.

Just me.  :Smile: 

They were right by a country mile.

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## chinthee

Is a Lao girl a non-Isaan girl?  Yes, I suppose so.  There are a few gems from there too, and they don't seem to suffer from the same accusations of money-grubbing.

I guess they do just kill their spouses sometimes though...

The only problem is that they speak not one word of English and a mix of Thai and Lao that is sure to screw your brain up.  :Confused:

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## Texpat

The difference is negligible -- but as has been stated before, the further south you travel from the Mekong, the less Lao they become. Yes, Issan is measured in a North-South axis. Ubon Rachathani is much closer to Laos, but much less Issan than Udon Thani.

Korat is Issan only in a historical context.

These are not my opinions, rather the opinions of local residents.

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## chinthee

^Yes, I get that impression too.  My current GF is from Laos, but in the South.  She doesn't seem to have _any o_f the so-called negative characteristics I've seen and heard about from more Northern Isaan girls.

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## Texpat

Which would be what?

I've been married to one of those wretched types for almost seven years.
Please fill me in.  :Razz:

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## chinthee

^Tex, I know you chose well.  :Smile:   I think I'm referring to the types that many of the farangs choose in Thailand.

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## Texpat

My wife's entire maternal side -- granny, aunts, uncles, cousins -- all live in Vietiene. There is virtually no difference in culture, language, day-to-day living.

Government, transportation, telecommunications, entertainment are a bit different.

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## chinthee

^Yeah, you mean non-existent and docile.  Wow, my impression of Lao people is that they have no idea what it means to party....And, yes, you're right, they have no telecom infrastructure, no transport options, and well...everyone is a farmer, I guess sidestepping unexploded Vietnam War ordinance.

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## Texpat

Nah, not in Vientiene... The closest planes took off from Udon, mostly F-4s and A-1s. Near altitude by Vien.

Hooked a right at the PDJ into Vietnam.
B-52s took outta Utaphao. 
There was a small base in NKP (Nakohn Panohm) which launched mostly Skyraiders on Sandy missions. No ordnance so close to the Thai border unless dumpin' hangars on their way home.

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## chinthee

^But I understand that in Savannakhet Province there is still a lot of unexploded ordnance and that you need guides to go into the back country to avoid it.

Is this true?

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## Rigger

> My gf loves me for my sparkling personality, flat stomach, and stunning good looks


I thought it was because you look like mrs Bean  :Smile:

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## Texpat

Mai ruu krap, that's pretty far south.
If there are UXOs there they might've been been placed by Thais fearing a communist invasion -- a real fear at the time. Millions of scouts were deployed to monitor villages on both sides of the river.

The HCM trail was very near the VN/Lao border and I wouldn't imagine the US bombing so close to Thailand. But I dunno.

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## chinthee

Well, from what I hear from the family who is deep in that province, that close to the HCM trail, and even not so close is lots and lots of Unexploded Ordnance.

I'm going there last week of this month and will try to report what I can, though I know my access to information may be limited.

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## mad_dog

I like Isan people. The OPs question is loaded with stereotypes. The Isan people who send their daughters or wives down to BKK or Pattaya to "find money" are the scum but thank God they are in the minority.

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## peterpan

> Originally Posted by Spin
> 
> My gf loves me for my sparkling personality, flat stomach, and stunning good looks
> 
> 
> I thought it was because you look like mrs Bean


That is fvcking cruel Rigger, Mr Bean is quite good looking.

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## njdesi

At the time of the engagement, my wife was 24, a virgin(hmm, at least before she met me), and has a degree from a government university (the one where you have to actually score high on the national exam to get in). The sinsot was 300,000, but it will be returned to us 100%. In my case, the sinsot is basically an insurance policy for their daughter. Her family put all of the money in a bank account and haven't touched it for a year. After another two years, they will transfer it all to her Thai bank account. From what she told me, her parents are holding the money in case they have to take care of her in the future if something happens to our marriage. If we have an emergency in the meantime, they will transfer the funds to her. 

If the family insists on keeping the whole amount and not giving any to the daughter, I would be very cautious. Also, if a girl isn't willing to marry you if her parents say no to the amount offered, I would leave. Hate to sound harsh, but she doesn't really love you. From talking to Thai friends, you never give sinsot to a divorced Thai women, bargirl, or non-virgin because there is no family honor to protect. If you are an older white guy and marrying a young girl, for some reason they expect some type of sinsot though. Have no idea what the logic behind that one is.  :Confused:

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## wagstaff

I Am A Yorkshireman,,,,,, I Paid Nothing And Never Would, But I Will Look After My Wife And  Her Parents And Her Kids In The Future And I Think They Will Care For Me, And The Only Losers In The Future Will Be Them If It All Goes Pear Shaped. She And They Are Worth The Risk For Me, And She Is From An Issan Farm And She Loves Me And I Do Her. Is There Anyone On This Forum Who Married For Love And Respects Their Wife, I Doubt There Is.

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## Rigger

> Is There Anyone On This Forum Who Married For Love And Respects Their Wife, I Doubt There Is.


yes I spent about 6 years living with my wife and her family before marring and I think you will find plenty of guys here that  love their wifes. So get the fuk off your high horse

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## jaiyenyen

> I Am A Yorkshireman,,,,,, I Paid Nothing And Never Would, But I Will Look After My Wife And Her Parents And Her Kids In The Future And I Think They Will Care For Me, And The Only Losers In The Future Will Be Them If It All Goes Pear Shaped. She And They Are Worth The Risk For Me, And She Is From An Issan Farm And She Loves Me And I Do Her. Is There Anyone On This Forum Who Married For Love And Respects Their Wife, I Doubt There Is.


I love my wife deeply and respect her immensly, how dare you assume otherwise.
 :kma:

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## reinvented

> I Am A Yorkshireman,,,,,, I Paid Nothing And Never Would, But I Will Look After My Wife And Her Parents And Her Kids In The Future And I Think They Will Care For Me, And The Only Losers In The Future Will Be Them If It All Goes Pear Shaped. She And They Are Worth The Risk For Me, And She Is From An Issan Farm And She Loves Me And I Do Her. Is There Anyone On This Forum Who Married For Love And Respects Their Wife, I Doubt There Is.


not sure what your point is
my wife neverf asked for a penny, at times earns more than me, family have done the usual thing buying gifts for grandchild
no expectation to help out beyond any family dynamic
if it goes pear shaped it will make fuck all difference to anybody concerned financially

high horse there pal, you're piping to the wrong crowd on here, try Thai Visa

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## Bluecat

> Originally Posted by wagstaff
> 
> 
> I Am A Yorkshireman,,,,,, I Paid Nothing And Never Would, But I Will Look After My Wife And Her Parents And Her Kids In The Future And I Think They Will Care For Me, And The Only Losers In The Future Will Be Them If It All Goes Pear Shaped. She And They Are Worth The Risk For Me, And She Is From An Issan Farm And She Loves Me And I Do Her. Is There Anyone On This Forum Who Married For Love And Respects Their Wife, I Doubt There Is.
> 
> 
> I love my wife deeply and respect her immensly, how dare you assume otherwise.


I guess he goes to Stickman's site too much... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Fabian

> ^Tex, I know you chose well.   I think I'm referring to the types that many of the farangs choose in Thailand.


I guess it is not because they are from Isaan but because of the location this type were chosen.

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## Fabian

> At the time of the engagement, my wife was 24, a virgin(hmm, at least before she met me), and has a degree from a government university (the one where you have to actually score high on the national exam to get in). The sinsot was 300,000, but it will be returned to us 100%. In my case, the sinsot is basically an insurance policy for their daughter. Her family put all of the money in a bank account and haven't touched it for a year. After another two years, they will transfer it all to her Thai bank account.


I cannot see the reasoning behind that. What was you reason to jump through this loop, accepting their traditions?

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## Fstop

> The Isan people who send their daughters or wives down to BKK or Pattaya to "find money" are the scum but thank God they are in the minority.


That's exactly what my g/f's parents did. Sent her to Samui first, then to Bangkok. She's not a bargirl by any means....far from it, actually. But her parents did send her out to earn money. And the new twist is that they expect her to pay for her younger sister's university education. The parents claim that they are now too old to work, so my g/f is now the breadwinner. I've never met them, but I can safely say that the 200k sinsott and the 10k monthly support they are asking if we ever get married will probably not come down....even if I go up there and beg.

But you never know.

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## njdesi

> I cannot see the reasoning behind that. What was you reason to jump through this loop, accepting their traditions?


It is the same logic that the engagement ring had in the West years ago. Hell, with the rapidly depreciating dollar, having that money in Thai baht available two years from now will probably work out in my favor.  :Razz:

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## WhiteLotusLane

> If the relationship does end (which I expect it will), I'll be looking for someone from a similar educational and socio-economic background. Just want to know the expected pitfalls, I guess.


1. I expect it won't.

2. Yes, someone from your own educational and socio-economic background is I think best.  Who may very well be from Isaan, it doesn't really matter and it would be over generalizing to state otherwise.  Socio-economic background has a much bigger influence than region or anything else.

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## Fabian

> Originally Posted by Fabian
> 
> 
> I cannot see the reasoning behind that. What was you reason to jump through this loop, accepting their traditions?
> 
> 
> It is the same logic that the engagement ring had in the West years ago. Hell, with the rapidly depreciating dollar, having that money in Thai baht available two years from now will probably work out in my favor.


In your favour? They will hand the money back to her not you if they do it at all.

Seriously, I think a bi-cultural marriage should meet in the middle.

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## Rigger

Yes I have seen and heard of some really low shit some of these low life women . My wife tells me its easy to pick these so called high so slags as the first thing they want to know is how much does her farang give her every month. 
I have a few mates that picked up with bangkok sluts but all didnt last long as most expected alot more than a lovely isaan lass

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## Texpat

^I've heard how some farangs give their wife an allowance too. I think it's a bad idea. From the day my wife and I were married almost 8 years ago, we've saved together to eventually move to Thailand. I've never given her "an allowance." She understands she can have what she needs (within reason) and doesn't have to ask. She's never abused the financial relationship we have and neither have I. We both worked and have a stake in our house/car/stuff. Much better than a farang _gifting_ a house to his tiirak in my opinion. Of course I can't own land, but I can/do own vehicles.
Investments I made before our marriage remain in my name, but my wife is the beneficiary. If things went south in our marriage, that's the way the law would treat them anyway, and she already knows she gets nothing if she kills me.  :Smile: 

Never was a fan of allowance -- but to each his own.

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## kingwilly

> Never was a fan of allowance -- but to each his own.


it aint just an Issan thing either, I know of a few 'educated' women who still got a sinsot and still epec/receive a small allowance on top of their own salaries.

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## Norton

> Never was a fan of allowance -- but to each his own.


Several problems with giving an "allowance".  The allowance is perceived to be very much like a salary resulting in an employee/employer relationship.  Allowance amount's tend to become "entitlements" which invariably increase over time.  If financial situation takes a downturn and the allowance is just not available, the wife may feel she is being cheated out of her rightful entitlement.

If a wife/GF is unwilling to accept a financial relationship like the one Tex has but rather insists on a monthly allowance then expect big problems in the relationship.

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## klongmaster

> Tata young, she is a very rich, hi-so, Thai-American girl


Goy: how can a cross-breed ever be considered Hi-So...she's a tramp who happens to have a good marketing team around her...



> I've heard how some farangs give their wife an allowance too. I think it's a bad idea


Tex: I'm an Airforce Brat...every married serviceman in NZ's forces has an allowance deducted from his salary and paid directly to his wife's account...that's the way I was brought up and that's the way I have continued...I give my wife an allowance every month so that she has some financial freedom and can learn some fiscal responsibility...

but as you said, each to his own...just wanted you to understand that paying an allowance is an inherit part of NZ society...

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## Texpat

Cheers KM, if it works for you -- good.

But wouldn't financial freedom be better taught if the wife had an equal stake and control over the estate instead of her "allotted allowance"? Equal partners and all? 

What I've tried to avoid is the perception that the handsome farang on the white horse strode into Issan and rescued this poor maiden in distress. It's not true in my case. (well, the handsome part is  :Smile: )

I suppose if the USAF docked my pay for outlays directly to my wife for the duration of my career, I might think differently -- might view it as SOP. 

I'm glad they didn't. They instead offer decent jobs at decent wage so the spouses and working-aged children are not spoon-fed, but learn very quickly the benefits of hard work and decent pay. My wife studied English for the first year we were married in Japan and then immediately went to work, bought a car, learned the value of savings.

I'd personally prefer it no other way. Uncle Sam takes his share for taxes already, what business does he have in dictating how I spend "my portion"? What if a NZ serviceman's wife was filthy rich? She still get a cut of his wedge?

----------


## ARK

I met an Isaan lady one year ago. We are good friends and penpals. I travel extensively for work, visit Thailand and have a home in the UK. I will move to Thailand this year, but will still travel for work.

'My' Thai lady is separated and has a young child. She has a good job, is absolutely lovely and supports her family. Our relationship is developing and is (so far) platonic. I have met her family and all seems well. My Thai language skills are not good. There is also an age difference. However I understand the family commitments and am relaxed about those. We will see what happens.

If marriage is in the future, then I would have no problems with a modest sinsot (despite the divorce) - if only for the 'face' issue. In the UK the 'Brides' parents used to pay for the weding - here it is the 'richer' groom. 

I realise that I could just find various 'local' girlfriends', but see no future with those.

I would appreciate any comments!

----------


## Butterfly

^ bad decision,

you should fuck a few Issan bunnies first to see how they are like,

The quiet ones can be the most dangerous,

You have a "fuck me I am a sucker" sticker all over you, 

you are doomed

----------


## Rigger

> I met an Isaan lady one year ago. We are good friends and penpals. I travel extensively for work, visit Thailand and have a home in the UK. I will move to Thailand this year, but will still travel for work.


Do you send her any money ?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> I would appreciate any comments!


don't do it.

seperated Thai women with kids are an extremely bad idea.

----------


## peterpan

> .every married serviceman in NZ's forces has an allowance deducted from his salary and paid directly to his wife's account...that's the way I was brought up and that's the way I have continued...I give my wife an allowance every month so that she has some financial freedom and can learn some fiscal responsibility...
> 
> but as you said, each to his own...just wanted you to understand that paying an allowance is an inherit part of NZ society...


 it seems to be klongy ...  my father  would give  mother a weekly allowance as well ... maybe it is a kiwi thing

----------


## Travelmate

I have been informed by my girl. That as part of Thai Culture I will have to pay TB300,000 sin sot plus all the wedding expenses. The money will not be given back to me nor her. Not sure what to do. As I find it very difficult giving away hard earned cash to somebody else. I have already delayed the wedding dates once. To buy myself some time and think what to do.
What make matters worse is two of her other sisters recently got married. One of them paid at TB1 million. Which in my mind is a total dick. The other paid Tb500,000 for a girl with excess baggage, a son. I have haggled mine down to TB300,000. But right now I am thinking not to pay any of it at all.
What you think? Pay or not?

----------


## kingwilly

> I have haggled mine down to TB300,000. But right now I am thinking not to pay any of it at all. What you think? Pay or not?


hard to say. only you can answer that question.

Easy to say one would _never_ pay, easy to say it is an abuse of culture, difficult to argue that with one that you love when the family expectation is that she has to pay...

Do you really love her, do you trust the family, is this gonna be forever?

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> I have haggled mine down to TB300,000. But right now I am thinking not to pay any of it at all. What you think? Pay or not?
> 
> 
> hard to say. only you can answer that question.
> 
> Easy to say one would _never_ pay, easy to say it is an abuse of culture, difficult to argue that with one that you love when the family expectation is that she has to pay...
> 
> Do you really love her, do you trust the family, is this gonna be forever?


been 3 years now. Love her? don't know? Family is actually ok. This is the only time they ask for money. Still find the thought of handing over that amount of cash and watching it dissappear...

----------


## Fstop

^Can you afford it? If it won't make a dent in your savings/wealth, and if you love the girl, maybe pay it. But if it's going to affect your financial situation, and you're going to go into debt by paying it, then absolutely not. My ex's parents would not come down, and I finally just said no. I don't regret it in the least. 

The reason it's so high is because of her sisters. The cock who paid a million really fucked you. It's all about showing face up there, and if the neighbor's daughter got a large sinsott, then you're expected to pay the same (or more). I'd have a good long think about this if I were you, and seriously consider whether or not you want to be a part of a family that is acting this way.

----------


## Fstop

> I met an Isaan lady one year ago. We are good friends and penpals. I travel extensively for work, visit Thailand and have a home in the UK. I will move to Thailand this year, but will still travel for work.
> 
> 'My' Thai lady is separated and has a young child. She has a good job, is absolutely lovely and supports her family. Our relationship is developing and is (so far) platonic. I have met her family and all seems well. My Thai language skills are not good. There is also an age difference. However I understand the family commitments and am relaxed about those. We will see what happens.
> 
> If marriage is in the future, then I would have no problems with a modest sinsot (despite the divorce) - if only for the 'face' issue. In the UK the 'Brides' parents used to pay for the weding - here it is the 'richer' groom. 
> 
> I realise that I could just find various 'local' girlfriends', but see no future with those.
> 
> I would appreciate any comments!


Do not pay a single satang for sinsott - she has a child so nothing should be paid. What do you mean by separated? If divorced, then absolutely no sinsott is to be paid because she already got it from someone else.

----------


## Whiteshiva

write a friggin cheque, 2 million bahts minimum, present it at the ceremony and make sure it bounces.   :goldcup:

----------


## Travelmate

> ^Can you afford it? If it won't make a dent in your savings/wealth, and if you love the girl, maybe pay it. But if it's going to affect your financial situation, and you're going to go into debt by paying it, then absolutely not. My ex's parents would not come down, and I finally just said no. I don't regret it in the least. 
> 
> The reason it's so high is because of her sisters. The cock who paid a million really fucked you. It's all about showing face up there, and if the neighbor's daughter got a large sinsott, then you're expected to pay the same (or more). I'd have a good long think about this if I were you, and seriously consider whether or not you want to be a part of a family that is acting this way.


I can afford it. Just don't fancy doing it.
And yeah the dick that paid a million screwed it big time for the others. I am told "if you love me, you be happy to pay" not the point though. I just can't get away from the nagging feeling of being screwed.

----------


## Travelmate

> write a friggin cheque, 2 million bahts minimum, present it at the ceremony and make sure it bounces.


it's against the law in Thailand to write a cheque that will bounce. They will merely take you to court and screw you there.

----------


## lom

> been 3 years now. Love her? don't know?


Seems to be a very bad idea to marry a girl without knowing if you love her.

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> been 3 years now. Love her? don't know?
> 
> 
> Seems to be a very bad idea to marry a girl without knowing if you love her.


A very valid point.

----------


## Whiteshiva

> Originally Posted by Whiteshiva
> 
> 
> write a friggin cheque, 2 million bahts minimum, present it at the ceremony and make sure it bounces. 
> 
> 
> it's against the law in Thailand to write a cheque that will bounce. They will merely take you to court and screw you there.


Make it out to Attilla the Hun - he is not likely to complain.  It is not like these people can read English, is it? :Smile:

----------


## Fstop

> I can afford it. Just don't fancy doing it.
> And yeah the dick that paid a million screwed it big time for the others. I am told "if you love me, you be happy to pay" not the point though. I just can't get away from the nagging feeling of being screwed.


That's the problem - a lot of Thai women (especially the Isaan girls) equate love with money. I would not marry someone who holds this opinion. And let's face it, you're not going to be "happy to pay" no matter what! What would happen if you just told her you wouldn't pay? If she leaves you because of that, she wasn't worth it anyway.

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Whiteshiva
> ...


Unfortunately my girl understands English very well.

----------


## Travelmate

[quote=durianfan;663766]


> Originally Posted by durianfan
> 
> 
> I can afford it. Just don't fancy doing it.
> And yeah the dick that paid a million screwed it big time for the others. I am told "if you love me, you be happy to pay" not the point though. I just can't get away from the nagging feeling of being screwed.
> 
> 
> That's the problem - a lot of Thai women (especially the Isaan girls) equate love with money. I would not marry someone who holds this opinion. And let's face it, you're not going to be "happy to pay" no matter what! What would happen if you just told her you wouldn't pay? If she leaves you because of that, she wasn't worth it anyway.


I have no idea what she will do, if I stand my ground and say no to her parents demand. The problem is the 2 sisters before her and proved extracting money for marraige can be done and in large amounts. The problem for her is that she had latched onto a stubborn one who refuses to be an easy target and part with hard earned cash. I will just say "no" and see what happens.

----------


## Norton

> I will just say "no" and see what happens.


Wise move.  You are clearly uncomfortable about paying and if you do you will always feel you have been taken advantage of.  Not a good way to start a marriage.

----------


## kingwilly

> I am told "if you love me, you be happy to pay" not the point though. I just can't get away from the nagging feeling of being screwed.


and if you dont pay she'll have the nagging feeling that _she_ is being screwed...

in fact if one paid a mill and the other 500K - i think you paying 300K or nothing would equate to the same...

it's pretty much a lose lose situation the way I see it right now.

Hold out and see what happens...

----------


## kingwilly

> I can afford it. Just don't fancy doing it.


hmmmm, is a dooming a relationship worth this principle then?

What about the other 2 marriages? Are they going ok? Are the family good family?

----------


## blackgang

Fuck it, if you pay for used goods then you are a bigger fool than I think you are, and I think that anyone that pays any sin sot is a damn fool anyway.

And if she says that if you do not pay then you do not love sure as hell is thinking of money and not how much she loves you.. :Sad: 

Just another whore that gives no pussy without the money sameo sameo

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> I can afford it. Just don't fancy doing it.
> 
> 
> hmmmm, is a dooming a relationship worth this principle then?
> 
> What about the other 2 marriages? Are they going ok? Are the family good family?


the 2 marriages are fine. both are still together and produced offspring.
Anyhooter it been decided for now the answer will be a solid "NO"..Now let see what sort of drama this will create.

----------


## Rigger

> I think that anyone that pays any sin sot is a damn fool anyway


I think anyone that makes a big deal out of a few baht which is used to pay for the party and the rest that is normaly returned is a cock

----------


## Whiteshiva

> Originally Posted by Whiteshiva
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Travelmate
> ...


Reads it too?  And if she does, is she with you or against you? :Wink:

----------


## Fstop

> Originally Posted by blackgang
> 
> I think that anyone that pays any sin sot is a damn fool anyway
> 
> 
> I think anyone that makes a big deal out of a few baht which is used to pay for the party and the rest *that is normaly returned* is a cock


He's said that it would not be returned. And it ain't a few baht - 300k is about $10,000. Could be used for better things than showing face and greedy in-laws.

----------


## Rigger

> Originally Posted by Rigger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by blackgang
> ...


If it is just going to the family well of course I wouldnt pay. But if it is to pay for the wedding party and the rest is returned I dont see what the big deal is. My comment was directed to Blackgangs comment of anyone who pays sin sot is a fool

----------


## Rigger

The costs and perils of...20-06-2008 01:38 PMNawtylol, touch a nerve..pay tooo much did we (your...you're) twat
Not at all, had a hell of a party that went on for days and was offered half back.

----------


## blackgang

And would you Mister Rogger have paid 10 or 20 thousand dollare to have married a shiela in your own country??

No you wouldn't have..well why not, it is not your custom to pay it there?? well since when do you change customs when you change sides of the street.

Plus that the dude said that it did not include the party for the free loaders that live in the village.
But if it makes you feel like an important fella paying for all the free booze for your free loading neighbors have your self a ball.

----------


## Told Stool

Girls born in Bangkok are hard to come by, but if you're lucky, you might find one.   :goldcup:

----------


## Nawty

> The costs and perils of...20-06-2008 01:38 PMNawtylol, touch a nerve..pay tooo much did we (your...you're) twat
> Not at all, had a hell of a party that went on for days and was offered half back.


So your....ooops...you're up for tit for tat, bet you have more tit than me.

As you have paid a fee for your missus....how does that feel ?

----------


## Bluecat

> And would you Mister Rogger have paid 10 or 20 thousand dollare to have married a shiela in your own country??
> 
> No you wouldn't have..well why not, it is not your custom to pay it there?? well since when do you change customs when you change sides of the street..


One time payment that he will recover by a wide margin at the time of divorce compared to his own country.
Wise investment... :Smile:

----------


## Rigger

> would you Mister Rogger have paid 10 or 20 thousand dollare to have married a shiela in your own country??


Would more likely cost a lot more 




> As you have paid a fee for your missus....how does that feel ?


really good if you must know. I recon I got me self a good buy  :Smile: 




> But if it makes you feel like an important fella paying for all the free booze for your free loading neighbors have your self a ball


I think me and heap of mates drunk most of it, anyway had been drinking all the free grog at their shows for many years before we married. You all make it sound like its just a rip off farang thing well I can tell you it aint, if a poor isaan lad can come up with 100K for his wife to be why cant you. If you dont want to pay sin sot dont marry in Thailand, Dont marry a Thai, As yes your wife and family will lose face if no sin sot being showen. 
What he needs to do is call a family meeting and discuss what he is willing to pay and what the wedding will cost, and what money if any will be returned. That is how it is done in our village

----------


## SEA Traveler

Customs of the country in which you met your "spouse to be" and of which you need to deal with might best be honored as intended.  As has already been said, it is a face thing.  So, rather than an outright "NO, I'm not paying any sinsot", why not consider discussion to arrive at a reasonable compromise?

Set a limit on what you personally are willing to pay for a wedding.  Offer that as a gesture of your good faith.  As as it relates directly to the "sinsot", let the family of the woman you think you might love and want to marry save face and suggest a "sinsot" amount that will be offered with guarantee of being returned so that you and your bride can build a house in which to live.

An outright "NO, I'm not paying any sinsot", regardless of the fact that she has a child and was previously married, is boarder line on total disrespect.  However, in the same vain, you need to be prudent in protection of your interests and make sure that any "sinsot" offered has an upfront garantee of being returned.  No "ands", "ifs" or "buts".

If this does not work with the family's acceptance and they are not willing to be flexible, then I suspect that their best intentions are not all that honorable and are selfish.

There is one thing in your favor, and it can be a double edged sword, the woman you are considering marrying wants financial security and support.  U offer that.  Now, how well do you know your to be spouse?  Is she an honest and honorable person?  How is she to others?  Is she a giving person or is she a taker only?  All things to think about and consider.

Good luck.

----------


## blackgang

> If you dont want to pay sin sot dont marry in Thailand, Dont marry a Thai, As yes your wife and family will lose face if no sin sot being showen.


I am married to a Thai, A Univ. educated Thai with a good job and a good pension when she retires, 
She's from a well off family and was divorced and had a couple of kids so no Sin Sot was asked or expected.
Sin Sot is only expected the first time on unused goods so bar girls, divorced women and women with kids do not qualify, and any family that asks for it under those conditions and you know you are dealing with scum.

----------


## kingwilly

^ is she Chinese Thai??

----------


## ChiangMai noon

i didn't pay any either.

if her family lost face, they aren't showing it.

----------


## Bluecat

> I am married to a Thai, A Univ. educated Thai with a good job and a good pension when she retires, 
> She's from a well off family .


So what?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

this question has come up again and again.

tomorrow i'm going to do a survey of a broad section of thais about their attitudes towards sinsot.

----------


## DrAndy

Just asked the wife about her village

Thai men usually pay around B80-100,000 sinsot there, depending on how rich they are. Even then, they often have to borrow the money.

Depending on the arrangement made before the marriage, half or even all the money can be given back. The parents often feel that the money would be of more use to the couple for their future.

So, it is a good idea to pay Sinsot, but if you need some of the money back, make sure that is known before the wedding and agreed. Sinsot is an old custom and part of any Thai wedding, so should be respected.

The Sinsot shows that the man has respect for the wife and her family, and gives him respect too. As I said, you can always arrange to have it back afterwards, it is all about "face".

----------


## Rigger

> Sin Sot is only expected the first time on unused goods so bar girls, divorced women and women with kids do not qualify, and any family that asks for it under those conditions and you know you are dealing with scum.


Thais will still pay sin sot on a used woman with kids, I have see it in the village a couple of times. Mind you the sin sot was set low at 1 bht gold and 30,000 bht, 
covered the cost of the party. 
So you must have married a real banger if she was free  :Smile:  
My wife was 17 when we met so I will get plenty of milege out of her, How old is or was your wife when you met Bg.
Did you have a wedding party ?

----------


## blackgang

> Thais will still pay sin sot on a used woman with kids, I have see it in the village a couple of times. Mind you the sin sot was set low at 1 bht gold and 30,000 bht, covered the cost of the party.


ISSAN not Thai, they do a lot of things different over there, they have ran that sin sot thing into the ground until most look down on it as it is just a way for their bar girl daughters that they have sent off to work as whores in Pattaya bars and a way to work more cash out of the farangs, and some must be real dingers if you got to get so drunk to marry em, plus that *Buda wedding ceremony* don't mean shit except a free drunk and grub for the deadbeats.





> So you must have married a real banger if she was free ,


I guess you could say that, she was 39 years old with her own land,[and was still 30 years my junior] a career as a govt school teacher and respect in the area and the true sin sot tradition was upheld and as the family are not drunks, there was no need for the Buda ceremony and the marriage is a legal one with registry at the Amphur.





> My wife was 17 when we met so I will get plenty of milege out of her, How old is or was your wife when you met Bg.


Was no need for me to marry a young school girl as I am not a drunk that has to raise a girl up to think my way is the only way and she better remember it, and not having to pack the full load of taking care of the family while I lay drunk so there was no need to try to make her believe that the Issan way is the only way to live a life and some familys do have 2 responsible parents that can live a life without drunken partys.

----------


## Rigger

> I guess you could say that, she was 39 years old with her own land,[and was still 30 years my junior] a career as a govt school teacher and respect in the area and the true sin sot tradition was upheld and as the family are not drunks, there was no need for the Buda ceremony and the marriage is a legal one with registry at the Amphur.


No drunks in my family, and yes my wife came with land and house if that meens any thing




> wedding ceremony don't mean shit except a free drunk and grub for the deadbeats.


You really are a sour old prick, its called a celebration 




> Was no need for me to marry a young school girl as I am not a drunk that has to raise a girl up to think my way is the only way and she better remember it, and not having to pack the full load of taking care of the family while I lay drunk so there was no need to try to make her believe that the Issan way is the only way to live a life and some familys do have 2 responsible parents that can live a life without drunken partys.


My wife was 17 when we met and 23 I think when we married. 
Get the fok of your hi horse Bg your a old ex drug addic that cant drink because you lost control of yourself.
Bg go back and lock yourself in your little house and world and leave Thailand the living

----------


## Travelmate

Just to refresh
asked to pay sinsot Tb300,000 non-refundable.
Gold and other valuables are also to be provided.
wedding, food, booze, etc I will alao have to pay.
Already delayed wedding dates once.
Have argued and debated on the above they stand firm.
I'm thinking time to drop the ball and run.
What you reckon?

----------


## good2bhappy

Tam jai khun!

----------


## Fstop

> Just to refresh
> asked to pay sinsot Tb300,000 non-refundable.
> Gold and other valuables are also to be provided.
> wedding, food, booze, etc I will alao have to pay.
> Already delayed wedding dates once.
> Have argued and debated on the above they stand firm.
> I'm thinking time to drop the ball and run.
> What you reckon?


Have a serious talk with your g/f and just be honest with her. Maybe go up and see the family and explain what you can afford. 

I couldn't afford it. Her family asked for 200k sinsott that would not be returned. I would also pay for the wedding, plus 10k to her parents each month for the rest of their lives. I finally just said that I couldn't afford it, and if I was being forced to pay then it would leave us in financial ruin for years.

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> 
> Just to refresh
> asked to pay sinsot Tb300,000 non-refundable.
> Gold and other valuables are also to be provided.
> wedding, food, booze, etc I will alao have to pay.
> Already delayed wedding dates once.
> Have argued and debated on the above they stand firm.
> ...


So what happened? The sinsot got returned to you? And the 10k to her parents?
when you said could not afford it, are you still with your girl?

----------


## Fstop

Broke it off. A shame, because she's great. But her parents would not compromise.

----------


## Ivor Biggun

> Just to refresh asked to pay sinsot Tb300,000 non-refundable. Gold and other valuables are also to be provided. wedding, food, booze, etc I will alao have to pay. Already delayed wedding dates once. Have argued and debated on the above they stand firm. I'm thinking time to drop the ball and run. What you reckon?


I never paid Sin Sot. Still got married though and never had wedding party. Does it bother the wife ? Not one little bit.

----------


## Travelmate

> Broke it off. A shame, because she's great. But her parents would not compromise.


you gotten so close and the broke it off.
That pretty brave of you.
I fear mine may follow the same path. As there is constant arguments about the money. Pity really have been together for 3 years plus.Still plenty of fish in the sea. But the good ones are pretty hard to find these days.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> The Sinsot shows that the man has respect for the wife and her family, and gives him respect too. As I said, you can always arrange to have it back afterwards, it is all about "face".


If you get it back or it pays for the wedding, then fine, but if it's used to get the family off your back then it isn't imo; just makes your wife a whore.

----------


## Norton

> Still plenty of fish in the sea. But the good ones are pretty hard to find these days.


Depends on the sea in which you go fishing. :Wink:

----------


## good2bhappy

> imo; just makes your wife a whore


Now I'm begining to understand where ERCO came from.

----------


## Fstop

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> Still plenty of fish in the sea. But the good ones are pretty hard to find these days.
> 
> 
> Depends on the sea in which you go fishing.


Good point. If your lure is cast in Nana and Cowboy, then chances are your fish isn't going to be very good. Plenty of good women here to date, imo.

----------


## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> The Sinsot shows that the man has respect for the wife and her family, and gives him respect too. As I said, you can always arrange to have it back afterwards, it is all about "face".
> 
> 
> If you get it back or it pays for the wedding, then fine, but if it's used to get the family off your back then it isn't imo; just makes your wife a whore.


That is nonsense Marmite, the Sinsot is a traditional payment, it does not make anyone a whore. It should not be seen as "getting the family off your back"; bride price is paid in many countries. In the UK, it used to be the woman that paid a dowry. Maybe that made the man a whore, esp as it was often paid to him?




> *Bride price* also known as *bride wealth* is an amount of money or property or wealth paid to the parents of a woman for the right to marry their daughter. (_Compare_ dowry, which is paid to the groom, or used by the bride to help establish the new household, and dower, which is property settled on the bride herself by the groom at the time of marriage.) In the anthropological literature bride price has often been explained in market terms, as payment made in exchange for the bride's family's loss of her labor and fertility within her kin g a dowryroup. Compare this affinal practice with brideservice, which does not rely on a compensatory exchange idiom for ethnological interpretation.
> The same culture may simultaneously practice both dowry and bride price.
> Many cultures practiced bride price prior to any existing records.

----------


## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by durianfan
> 
> 
> Broke it off. A shame, because she's great. But her parents would not compromise.
> 
> 
> you gotten so close and the broke it off.
> That pretty brave of you.
> I fear mine may follow the same path. As there is constant arguments about the money. Pity really have been together for 3 years plus.Still plenty of fish in the sea. But the good ones are pretty hard to find these days.


 
The Sinsot is not up to the family, in fact, but up to both of you to agree

When you have agreed, then you inform the family of the amount. So, it is your girl that has the power to veto such a high amount; discuss it with her, agree it with her. If you cannot afford it, and your girl can understand that, there should be no problem unless she is being greedy or wants to show off. If the latter, you can have it given back later secretly.

If the former, dump her!

----------


## blackgang

> I never paid Sin Sot. Still got married though and never had wedding party. Does it bother the wife ? Not one little bit.


Might not bother your wife Ivor, but don't want to let that drunken kangaroo roughneck hear about it or it will shoot his idea of a proper Thai wedding in the ass.





> Bg go back and lock yourself in your little house and world and leave Thailand the drunks


Can't get over it can ya, them deadbeat assholes is fucking you to death and you just can't figure it out can ya.
Fuck a wild man, I had that shit figured in 1965..

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## kingwilly

> I fear mine may follow the same path. As there is constant arguments about the money.


Surely this is a warning sign of things to come.... ?

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## Marmite the Dog

> That is nonsense Marmite, the Sinsot is a traditional payment, it does not make anyone a whore. It should not be seen as "getting the family off your back"


I agree, but when you get told "Give my Mum & Dad 200k and they won't hassle you again" that's how I interpret it. And, if that's the case, the woman is whoring herself.

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## bkkandrew

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> The Sinsot shows that the man has respect for the wife and her family, and gives him respect too. As I said, you can always arrange to have it back afterwards, it is all about "face".
> 
> 
> If you get it back or it pays for the wedding, then fine, but if it's used to get the family off your back then it isn't imo; just makes your wife a whore.


Absolutely and completely correct.

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## Rigger

> Might not bother your wife Ivor, but don't want to let that drunken kangaroo roughneck hear about it or it will shoot his idea of a proper Thai wedding in the ass.


Now if the sin sot is used the way it should, I dont have a probblem with it, but if it is being used for a new pick up or other stuff well then thats crap. 
Also there are plenty of guys I know that didnt pay any sin sot, and reason being their wife has been married before in that village and to hold a second wedding is not looked well apone.

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## blackgang

That sounds reasonable to me, but as most are saying that even the women with kids and divorced in Issan are claiming huge sin sot payments, for a party seems to be cool with most farang, who seem to be the only ones hit with large sin sot.
Maybe some Thai guys are hit with a big one from parents who hope for a walking ATM to carry them into the smoke and scare the bastard off.
My neighbor when married, even tho he owns a shit load of cattle only paid 8000 when he got married and he got that back in the first year with labor produced then shortly after that she had him a son, but they were Thai.
But when his sister married a couple of years before to a Swiss they got 500,000 for her and last year she bought the family a new Vigo.
so depends on who it is that makes the dowry what it is.
When I first started coming here in the mid 60s there was not much talk of dowry, but cows and Buffalo did change hands a lot.
And you know that in SEA I have been offered younger girls free of dowry and when I jumped the mans ass about giving his daughter away he would explain that she would have a much better life with me than with a local as times were tough, but that is from a parent that has thoughts for the life of his children before the luxury he might get for himself.

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## watterinja

Sinsot for the used & haggard is senseless...

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## Travelmate

I am told if no Sinsot there will be a big loss of face at her village.Apparently everybody need to witness the loot and therefore it has to be displayed for all to see. And it got to be cash. As mentioned before by some other dude on this thread a cheque will not work.

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## Norton

> so depends on who it is that makes the dowry what it is.


Ability to pay real or perceived does play heavily into the market price.  Doesn't matter weather Thai or farang.  Problem farang's have is the perception we are all rich.  Having never lived outside Thailand most Thais get this perception from watching TV or having experience with Thai tourists who spend 11 months of hard earned savings so they can blow it all in one month in Thailand.

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## Norton

> Apparently everybody need to witness the loot and therefore it has to be displayed for all to see. And it got to be cash.


Must be cash for sure.  It will be spread or piled in a tray for all to see.  If the issue is only about face then the family should have no issues in returning all or a big portion of it to you and your wife.  The family's position on the no return part indicates they are in it for the money only.  IMO, if your girl friend cannot convince the family to give most of it back, she too is an accomplice.

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## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> Apparently everybody need to witness the loot and therefore it has to be displayed for all to see. And it got to be cash.
> 
> 
> Must be cash for sure. It will be spread or piled in a tray for all to see. If the issue is only about face then the family should have no issues in returning all or a big portion of it to you and your wife. The family's position on the no return part indicates they are in it for the money only. IMO, if your girl friend cannot convince the family to give most of it back, she too is an accomplice.


The big problem is, the two farangs who married her sisters before us have paid and none is returned. Therefore they know the system worked in the past. Also the two farangs never asked for the cash back. Thus making me look like the mean one in the family.

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## Fstop

> The big problem is, the two farangs who married her sisters before us have paid and none is returned. Therefore they know the system worked in the past. Also the two farangs never asked for the cash back. Thus making me look like the mean one in the family.


That's a similar problem I had. The ex's sister got 80,000 from her Thai husband. However, the neighbors are what fucked me. About a year ago she told me that an American guy paid 500k sinsott for a girl from her village. When she told me this, my response was "Well, he's an idiot." Unfortunately she didn't share the same sentiments. Another guy (forget where he was from) paid 1 million. "He's an even bigger idiot" I replied. None of the sinsott was returned. In fact, she told me that she had never heard of the sinsott ever being returned.

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## Norton

> The big problem is, the two farangs who married her sisters before us have paid and none is returned. *Therefore they know the system worked in the past*. Also the two farangs never asked for the cash back. Thus making me look like the mean one in the family.


You have clearly stated your opinion on the subject to your girlfrend.  The system the family has adopted is out of line.  This is not going to be resolved.

Walk away now!!!

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## Norton

> In fact, she told me that she had never heard of the sinsott ever being returned.


Must have very selective hearing. :Wink:

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## Fstop

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> The big problem is, the two farangs who married her sisters before us have paid and none is returned. *Therefore they know the system worked in the past*. Also the two farangs never asked for the cash back. Thus making me look like the mean one in the family.
> 
> 
> You have clearly stated your opinion on the subject to your girlfrend. The system the family has adopted is out of line. This is not going to be resolved.
> 
> Walk away now!!!


 
Agree --- walk away. It will hurt, but it's for the best, unless some compromise can be made. I was with my g/f for nearly 3 years - I believe that we were just waiting for the other to cave in and say "okay, have it your way." It was not going to be me. Finally I just put it to her: I will not pay your family sinsott, especially when I know that I will not be getting any of it back, and I will not pay your parents 10k a month for the rest of their lives. It was my believe (and still is) that they were being greedy and unreasonable, and trying to take advantage of me because I'm an American (farang). However, she saw it as abandoning her family if she sided with me, so we went our separate ways. It hurt (still does) but I'm confident that it was the right decision.

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## Norton

> It hurt (still does) but I'm confident that it was the right decision.


Absolutely was the right thing to do.  Yes it does hurt but would hurt a hell of a lot more when the family sucked you dry and then cast you aside because you could or would no longer support them in the manner they expected.

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## Travelmate

> she told me that she had never heard of the sinsott ever being returned


Same as what mine said to me.

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## Travelmate

> You have clearly stated your opinion on the subject to your girlfrend. The system the family has adopted is out of line. This is not going to be resolved. Walk away now!!!


we will see what happens.

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## Norton

> In fact, she told me that she had never heard of the sinsott ever being returned.





> Same as what mine said to me.


Do we detect a pattern emerging here.  Any Thai who claims they have never heard of sin sot being returned all or in part is deaf.  The missus tells me she estimates about 80% give majority back to the newly weds.

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## Whiteshiva

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> Apparently everybody need to witness the loot and therefore it has to be displayed for all to see. And it got to be cash.
> 
> 
> Must be cash for sure.


Not true - at my wedding, we displayed some gold (some given to her by me, some she had from before I met her), a diamond engagement ring, and a cheque made out to some amount - I think a couple of million (in baht, to myself, on a Singapore check). We were actually supposed to get the sin sot back, and I was quite prepared to show off some cash, but her parents said that it may not be a good idea to walk around with hundreds of thousands of baht in cash, so a cheque was a better idea. Their idea - not mine!

BTW - I paid for the party, and we gave the money we received to her parents as a gift. I think that worked out OK.

If the in-laws plan on keeping the sin-sot - find yourself another girlfriend/wife. Just the fact that her sisters have married farangs is a cause for concern - for several reasons. 

'nuff said.

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## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by durianfan
> 
> In fact, she told me that she had never heard of the sinsott ever being returned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I reckon it depends what village they come from. Seems some do and some don't.
But mine is very strong on the subject of "Sin sot"  says will be a huge loss of face to everyone she knows.

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## Norton

^^ Check would work for wedding where the guests actually knew what one was.  In most Isaan villages, this is not the case. :Wink:

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## Norton

> But mine is very strong on the subject of "Sin sot" says will be a huge loss of face to everyone she knows.


Your call mate.  But you have a face/principals too!

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## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> But mine is very strong on the subject of "Sin sot" says will be a huge loss of face to everyone she knows.
> 
> 
> Your call mate. But you have a face/principals too!


she already been informed. Now we are having a tit for tat debate.

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## Fabian

The debate will lead nowhere. Listen to above and walk away or prepare to pay, those are the only choices.

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## good2bhappy

sounds like there just after the money
This could be a blessing in disguise

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## Travelmate

okay been a bit of a kerfuffle.
sinsot now been halved in value and the said amount will be returned to us. 
So thanks boys, posting on Teakdoor actually saved me some money!!
Now if I can just convince my Mia Noi to have her monthly allowance cut in half citing future wife as a prime example....hmmmm

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## blackgang

Well after the wedding just be sure when you lay down to take a nap be sure that your wallet is well hidden, just always remember who it was that you married and how she tried to fuck you before the wedding..

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## Norton

> how she tried to fuck you before the wedding


I was fucked all the time before.  It was after things tended to drop off a bit. :Smile:

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## good2bhappy

nothing like marriage to dampen the ardour

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## Fstop

Never let the sinsott out of your sight.

Oh, and it might be wise to ask how much the in-laws will expect you to give each month for their "retirement".

https://teakdoor.com/living-in-thaila...etirement.html

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## sunsetter

nice thread, some great opinions and outlooks on the sinsot thing, interesting
last time i was involved in anything like sinsot, missus at the time had no real brothers and sisters, mum dead already just one kid and her dad who was on his way out with stomach cancer, we did the 30k thing, small ceromony string thing, had a lil party, just to keep it all cool. her dad was happy as it was his daughter and it mightve been the last thing he would have to remember her with. he gave us 11 rai of rice, still half in my name, and lots of other land parcels too. there was never a doubt about paying that 30k i wouldve paid more maybe, it was too keep my soul intact and my karma balanced and i feel it made a difference in my life and hers at the same time.still very good friends to this day, love her to bits and it was that event that caused those feelings.
on the flip side 
a german guy in the same village gave it charlie big spuds about a 1 mill sinsot, big house, pick up 1 year ago when i was visiting i spoke to the girl he married, she made it clear she was single and told me she sent him back to germany becuase he was ki neow! amazing thailand!

but would i pay a sinsot? not a chance

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## Travelmate

> Never let the sinsott out of your sight.
> 
> Oh, and it might be wise to ask how much the in-laws will expect you to give each month for their "retirement".
> 
> https://teakdoor.com/living-in-thaila...etirement.html


there is no monthly payment to be made. Sinsot will be returned to us. And this money will be used to open my / our very first joint account. it will also be the first and last deposit into that account.

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