#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Farming & Gardening In Thailand >  >  > Thailands Zoos and Animals >  >  Why Did Someone Poison My Dogs??

## rickschoppers

I called my wife yesterday to receive the news that both of our dogs were dead in the drive from an apparent poisoning. The neighbor across from the house also had two dogs poisoned, so it was not just  pointed at us and it was not something the dogs found to eat only on our property. It was obvious that they were poisoned by someone.

Here is Tuk-Tik. A very loving and fun dog that never bit anyone. We had him for 7 years and was my wife's favorite. She was pretty upset that anyone would poison our dogs.



Here is my 15 month old Pit Bull. Alpha was a very mellow dog and didn't bother to bark at most people and was a good mannered Pit Bull. We got two as puppies and the female died about 2 months ago from "something she ate?"





Why would somebody do this? I have two theories and they may both be wrong. First, in the village there are a number of young men on motorbikes that used to play pool across the street and get drunk. They were busted for drugs on several occasions and finally shut down. We would see large groups of young men congregating at the street corner late at night and probably up to no good. I left it alone, being the outsider, but knew they just wanted to get into trouble. The first theory is that one of these or a group of young men did this for "kicks."

My second theory is more bothersome. It involves older men poisoning any dogs in the area of a future theft. Getting rid of the alarm is the first step of any theft. Luckily, I have build a block wall with a locking steel gate around the front of the house and it would be more difficult to steal anything from us than from the neighbors.

If anyone has any other theories, I would be interested in hearing them. I used to think our village was a good place to live, but now I am having second thoughts. I am both angry and upset and hope I never hear who it was that did this terrible act. I just don't understand people sometimes. 

I know these poisonings happen fairly often in Thailand and it is something I struggle with.

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## Nokturnal

Someone either thought them a nuisance or a roadblock (to breaking into to your place to rob you). Or they were just being nasty cnuts..  If we were in the states my money would be on them being nasty teenaged cnuts... Since we're in Thailand I fear that the dogs either irritated some locals or got in the way of some thieving bastards.

Sorry to hear that at any rate, Mate.

RIP to your pups.

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## Marmite the Dog

> My second theory is more bothersome. It involves older men poisoning any dogs in the area of a future theft. Getting rid of the alarm is the first step of any theft. Luckily, I have build a block wall with a locking steel gate around the front of the house and it would be more difficult to steal anything from us than from the neighbors.


That seems to be the normal reason for something like that.

Very sorry to hear of your losses.

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## rickschoppers

Nok, you are right about if it happened in the States. Too many assholes running around with nothing to do. Unfortunately, the same dynamic seems to exist in Thailand. The police are never seen in the village unless there is something serious and it might help if they patrolled for young men out and about late at night.

Marmite, you may be right. I just don't understand since I can just go out and get another 10 dogs to guard the property. I know you live in my area and am wondering if you see this where you live? I am still struggling with the whole thing.

Thank you both for your thoughts.

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## monty burns

Were they barking all day and night ?

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## Marmite the Dog

> Marmite, you may be right. I just don't understand since I can just go out and get another 10 dogs to guard the property. I know you live in my area and am wondering if you see this where you live? I am still struggling with the whole thing.


I would get your wife to talk to the village head man. People power is the best way to get things like this dealt with.

My brother in law is working in Israel and a few thugs gut the power to the SiL's house thinking she would come out and they could nick her stuff. Luckily she had enough sense to phone dad who only lives about 50 metres away. I wanted to booby trap the leccy pole, but common sense prevailed.

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## rickschoppers

^^
Not really. The Pit Bull was pretty quiet. The smaller dog barked if someone came around. Across the street is where most of the barking happened, and up the street.

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## WilliamBlake

.....

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## Nokturnal

I tend to beleive it was more of a "fok that farang" type of crime, Rather than a "lets kill his dogs and rob him up.. Kind of thing.  I can't see many Thais who would kill them just to be nasty fokers... My thoughts anyways.  I often worry about the rotties outside all night watching the yards.. And that's in the heart of bangkok... Never had a dog killed by anything other than snakes.

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## rickschoppers

Marmite, my BIL has talked to some elders and I told him that if he finds out who did it, call the police or deal with it locally. The lady across the street used to have a police boyfriend, so I am sure my wife will be having a conversation with her as well. 

Eliminating the alarm system should happen just before the theft, but you never know about the thought process, or lack of, here in the LOS.

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## rickschoppers

Nok, the lady across the street has no "farang" connection. According to my BIL, there were a couple of other dogs down the road poisoned as well (not farang). He told me that this happened about 5 years ago before some thefts took place which is why I told him to alert the police (not that they would do anything about it).

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## nigelandjan

Sorry to hear about this Rick ,, I guess your just have to go out and get some really nasty dogs

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## rickschoppers

Thanks Nige. I was originally going to get a rot, but could not find one at a reasonable price. Since I have the 3 year old, I was also a little hesitant to get something too mean. Sometimes a soy dog will be just as mean. I have probably spent too much money on the dogs I have had, but now I will just see about a Thai dog. 

I am not sure if my wife wants to try again, but she does like animals. My BIL has had to bury 6 of our dogs in the last 4 years, which is more than I have done in 20 years.

1. Tuk-Tik's sister probably poisoned 4 years ago.
2. My Thai dog that was watching our new house was hit by a speeding car.
3. The family dog that was about 12 years old died last year.
4. Tuk-Tik poisoned.
5. Beta (pit bull) died this year from "something she ate."
6. Alpha (pit bull) poisoned.

So, do I get another dog or two?

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## kingwilly

Sorry to hear about that Rick.

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## rickschoppers

Thanks Kingwilly.

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## Loy Toy

Bloody terrible news Rick. Your wife must devastated.

So much for the Buddhist pledge..........thou shall not kill............... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I hope these mongrels experience some bad karma for what they did.

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## rickschoppers

Thanks Loy Toy. I also hope bad karma pays a visit to the guilty party(s) as well.

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## fishlocker

I would install an alarm system with battery backup solar charged would be nice to keep up batteries. Lights and sirens if power is cut. Motion sensers ect. cameras are not too high priced. I had a shed a long time ago that I put a 12 v car motorcycle battery in. One limit switch on the door trigering an old car horn and one toggle to open the circuit. It went off every time the door opened till i hit the switch. Every one knew it was armed no one messed with it. Good luck and keep safe. Too many crazies on yaba with with baw sumung.

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## Boon Mee

That's really a foul thing to do to your dogs, Rick!  Got to be some real evil bastard to poison them - hopefully, karma will get them.  I'd get a replacement dog or two pretty quick though.  Best alarm system you can have - or a mean goose.

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## rickschoppers

^
I agree and will probably be calling the wife back with that exact bit of advice. She may still be shell shocked, but I think it would be best to show whoever is watching that we will not give in to their evil. 

I will keep all posted on what she decides. Since we have a 3 year old son, she may be a little picky about what kind of dog she will get. She likes small dogs and I prefer the larger breeds.

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## somtamslap

Hi Rick. It's par for the course unfortunately in a country which seems to be a hotbed of heartless fucking cretins. It does however seem you got a particularly shitty end of the stick in terms of your location and the dogs to poisoning ratio, and I know from experience that it's far from pleasant living with such pitiless scum on your doorstep. 

When four pups I took in some years ago ran up to me one evening with their tails frozen between their legs, shaking almost uncontrollably and whimpering in obvious excruciating pain, I did all I could to elicit vomit from all four of them which came in floods, but they still all died in front of my eyes - my Western sensibilities quickly overode any _Thainess_ I may have inadvertently slipped into, and I quickly activated 'FROTHING-AT-THE-MOUTH-FARANG' mode, bellowed deafening obscenities  into the night, directed at any Thai in ear-shot, and fucked OFF out of that house the next day.

This was the fourth or so poisoning I'd witnessed, and this, above any other faults the country and its people may have, takes the fucking cake in my opinion. It is fucking disgusting, cowardly, inhumane behaviour, and if I thought that anyone in my current location in Thailand would pull a similar stunt, I'd be out of there before I did a spell in the slammer.

Sorry about your dogs, mate, it's tough. 

Your pit and mine were peas in a pod... :Smile:

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## rickschoppers

^
I agree with every word and do not understand the mentality of anyone doing such a thing to a defenseless creature such as a dog. It really makes my blood boil and am very tempted to go out and get about 5 pit bulls to guard my property. A shotgun would be better, but law does not allow that.

Your pit bull looks just like mine when he filled out. They are great animals with a bad reputation from ignorant people. I have owned dogs since I was young and have always found them to be caring and would protect my family to the end, as my last two did.

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## kingwilly

> and this, above any other faults the country and its people may have, takes the fucking cake in my opinion. It is fucking disgusting, cowardly, inhumane behaviour,


yes...

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## xanax

Pit bulls are not dogs that anyone should keep IMO, should not have been poisoned though. What should be dealt with are soi dogs these can be a real menace, when it comes to this though Thais are suddenly all good budhists.

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## charleyboy

If you can illicit vomiting and get them to a vet (pronto) they can be saved.
I'd sooner they shot the dog than poison it.
I've seen it first hand here and it's not a thing you would want to ever see.

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I'd taken the car to play golf and had lost my cell phone the previous evening. I got back from golf and saw my missus
and a couple of her friends across the road from our house.
She came running up the drive with tears in her eyes...

RIP Tiger.



Unable to contact me and with no transport to take him to the vet.

Evil fuckers!

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## peterpan

Over the years,  I have seen a peculiar characteristic of Thais, in that they lack guts, they will do something bad, and its common to run away from the fallout.   

Poisoning is in that Category, they can drop poison and the don't have to face the consequences. It suits their (lack of) character.

If they have a road accident, they quite often run away from the result.

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## xanax

If somebody goes to the trouble of poisoning dogs here I doubt very much it's done for 'kicks' Either you upset somebody over something and it's revenge or, far more likely the dogs barking has driven people to do it. The suggestion that it's a preview for a thief does not sound likely. Just as people never blame their kids dog owners never blame their dogs for what they get up to. Many people go out leave the dogs in or around the house and have no idea how much they bark when there is nobody at home. If you want to keep dogs safe, keep them in and keep them quiet, don't make them everyone's problem.

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## rickschoppers

^
We live on a road that has many dogs and I hear them barking many times at night. Mine were not the main offenders and anyone living near us would have to poison about 30 dogs to eliminate the noise. 

Personally, I have made a point not to offend anyone and just being from another country can be upsetting to certain Thais. Keeping the dog inside is not an option since one of the reasons for having them is property protection. 

Who knows why it was done, but I do agree that whoever did it is a lowlife.

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## misskit

Sorry to hear the bad news about your pooches. Loosing them really hurts. 

My guess would be those dogs were barking at people up to no good in the night and they decided to shush them. Yabaa users come to mind. Hope the people in your area who lost their pets have a chat with the headman and the police about what happened.

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## rickschoppers

Thanks misskit. I am sure you are more right than wrong. Poison is only used by cowards and I may never learn who actually did it. I told my wife to keep her ears open since they may just be stupid enough to brag about it.

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## Dillinger

Sorry to hear about your dogs.





> Keeping the dog inside is not an option since one of the reasons for having them is property protection.


All of my dogs were always kept in the house and taken for walks twice a day. They guard pretty well from the inside

Maybe you should get your Missus the lapdog she wants, one that barks when it hears someone close to your property.

as to your thread title, why would someone poison your dogs ? maybe someone's worried about one of those pit bulls you own  getting out and savaging their dogs or children. Maybe they growled or went for someone you're not aware of. Their reputation does precede them.

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## The Fresh Prince

Sorry to hear that Rick, it's one of my biggest fears that someone would poison our dog while we are out. I witnessed a mass poisoning on a beach here once and it wasn't pleasant.

Can I ask what kind of community you live in? Village, gated Moo Baan, Street etc..

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## VocalNeal

Rick,

We had two dogs died from disease picked up at the vet. So I empathise with your loss. If there were no other dogs involved I would go with the barking of your neighbour's dogs. Your were just collateral or insurance in case they got the wrong ones. Doesn't make it right though or even make sense. 
This maybe harder on your wife as she has to deal with it directly. 

Why did they object to the barking? You could be right?  You may not be the target but it could be someone close-by. It had to be premeditated so I don't think it was youths for kicks. 

As you say you probably don't want to know who it was. In your shoes I would be hard pressed to rein myself in if I knew.

We now have a dog that is related to the first two. We didn't go looking he just sort of arrived. He is sat on my desk now as I type!  Small dog not big desk!

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## rickschoppers

Dillinger, thanks for the condolences. You may have a point with having a small lapdog for the wife. You are a little off base with the pit bull comments, since the one I had ignored most people that walked by even though the smaller dog barked. Pit bulls are mean only if they are trained to be mean like any other dog. You may want to read up on them a little more before falling into the false reputation trap.

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## nidhogg

> Maybe you should get your Missus the lapdog she wants, one that barks when it hears someone close to your property.
> .


Thats what we have, a small Maltese.  Outside most of the day, and inside at night.  And I know she can bark pretty much non-stop in the day if there is lots of activity outside the gate and no one is home.  Fortunately I suppose most people are out and about in the day, so its not too much disturbance, and its not a daily occurrence.

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## rickschoppers

Prince, I live in a village about 10km outside Udon Thani.

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## xanax

On the pit bull thing they have been bred for violence and aggression and in the main that's why they are owned. I never heard of a poodle, a labrador or a setter ripping somebody, usually a kid to pieces. However, there are plenty of cases of rottweillers, staffs and pit bulls doing just that. If ever these dogs genes get out into soi dogs then the soi dogs will be a very serious problem indeed.

In the OP case I wonder if jealousy and anti falang feeling might have been it, if not the reasons already mentioned? Just because they smile at you don't mean they like you.

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## rickschoppers

Way off base Xanax. Do your homework.

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## Thormaturge

Since this wasn't just your dogs but a neighbour's dogs too then I agree it doesn't seem personally directed at you or your dogs.  

 In Thailand the greatest motivation for anything is money, which leaves the very distinct possibility that this was motivated by the prospect of a burglary.  Don't be surprised, however, if nothing further happens as they chicken out.  Any intended burglary would have to be planned for the immediate future, otherwise they know you will simply replace the dogs.  

  Personally I would be inclined to leave matters as they are, do not replace the dogs for a while,  but stay up late for a few nights with a mobile phone in hand and the phone number of the local cops or a friend with a gun in case they do return.   Nobody needs to shoot anyone, but the sight of a weapon to unarmed intruders is likely to work wonders.

 Unarmed?  Yes, armed burglars aren't going to mess about poisoning dogs...IMHO.

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## Dillinger

> You may want to read up on them a little more before falling into the false reputation trap.


I could put up a hundred links on here to pitbull attacks. their reputation is well founded

My friend has a pitbull/staff cross. he can't take it for a walk off the lead because that dog will rip apart any other dog in the vicinity. that dog is a house dog too. Don't get me wrong, it's a lovely dog and he lives with children, but for  me, I like a dog I can walk with without it trying to  pull  my arm off and be free to run about without being a menace.The incessant pinning you to the sofa for a good old Pedigree chum breathed  face lickin is something I also don't appreciate :Smile: 

anyway, I know what it feels like to lose a dog, like losing a part of the family, so you need to think if you want to re-subject yourself, your wife and even more importantly your 3 year old son stumbling upon whatever poisoned those dogs.

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## peterpan

As with you Rick, I live in a village about 10 k out of Udon, we tolerated the occasional dog poisoning and burglary.   
The head man is a slack cvnt so complaints to him were wasted. 
Then one of the residents organized security, instant result, not had any instances  since (2 yrs). 

The organizer and a local shop keeper collect 200 Bt  per month, to pay wages.  

I hear that the head man is not about to be reelected.

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## sabang

Real sorry for your loss Rick. I sometimes worry our tribe of 9 dogs might be the victim of similar skullduggery, unfortunately a couple of them do harass passing motorcyclists (they don't bite anybody though) and, typical of Isaan, I'm the only one that tries to do something about it, so futility at it's best. Then again, I don't live in the moo bahn, just a small hamlet of 3 houses. Very few strangers around here.

Both your theories are quite possible. It seemed to be the case in Pattaya that a dog poisoning was often followed by a house break in, same place or very nearby, within the next day or two. Or punks taking some sort of anonymous revenge on the village that 'evicted' them, quite possible too. How is your community in with the local pu yi ban & cops? If possible, I'd just have more heat and harassment brought on them- they are cowards, at the end of the day.

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## Norton

> I live in a village about 10km outside Udon Thani.


Sorry to hear of the loss of your dogs. Not likely the case given your location but I had a beautiful gentle Rottie poisoned in Phuket. Found out was done by a Muslim restaurant owner just up the beach from the house.

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## Rupert Wanger

seems to be a common thing with farang owning dogs - happened to one of the posters on TD (CMN) a while back.

Sorry to hear your loss.

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## bsnub

Rick my condolences. Only the lowest scum would to such a thing.




> Found out was done by a Muslim restaurant owner just up the beach from the house.


You should have hired some goons to work the muzzie over.

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## xanax

> Way off base Xanax. Do your homework.


Well it's not difficult is it, the dogs were killed because Thais nearby either did not like the dogs or the owner. As for pit bulls being angels, not hard to find out that in fact they are not and were not bred to be. Don't know about here ot the USA but owners of them in the UK are normally chavs with tattoos, on the dole and who say things like 'i'd kill for my kids' while strutting round the council estate with a beast that would do just that. Normally they give the dog a name like Tyson, demon or lucifer, bit of a give-away really.

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## xanax

> Sorry to hear about your dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> ...


That's just the excuse, in practice they bark so much nobody thinks anything of it so they are not really property protection. Like car alarms nobody takes any notice. if you want property protection get cctv.

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## The Ghost Of The Moog

Quite a lot of melodrama here from farang drama queens

My wife had a few of her dogs and cats die during her moobarn years.

Its not hells angels hepped-up on speedballs, nor alien extermination. 

Its simply villagers putting down poison - usually to tackle vermin such as rats.  The moo barn pets wander round innocently - often into the yards of neighbours and consume it.

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## xanax

^ sensible post at last

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## BobR

If there are any vicious dogs or dogs that bark all night in the neighborhood, it may have been intended for them, but your dogs found whatever it was first.  

My dogs got poisoned but survived a while back when a neighbor put out rat poison in his yard. (Warafen) Good neighbor but apparently the rats carried it onto my property, found a dead rat and my 2 very sick dogs in the yard.

My dogs are in the yard when I'm gone and sleep in my bedroom at night, both are neutered and they're not allowed out of the yard. Maybe you should try fencing them in next time?
Sorry about your dogs.

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## Satonic

Sorry for your loss, I too have a Pitbull and a Great Dane. They are house dogs and are only let out in the yard to use the toilet. I walk them each evening a good few km leashed around my moo baan.

The Pitbull has never barked at a person before and super friendly, the Great Dane is possibly the dumbest most clumsy dog I've ever owned but got a huge huge bark that's likely to deter anyone that comes up to my gate (well that and she's the size of a small horse).

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## Bower

Real sorry to hear this.

i have to ask, you don't have anyone nearby with a litter of pups they want/need to sell ? Make sure you buy any replacements from well outside the area.

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## somtamslap

> Its simply villagers putting down poison - usually to tackle vermin such as rats.


  :rofl:  This is Isaan nigga!

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## Marmite the Dog

> I hear that the head man is not about to be reelected.


True, he's there for life unless he either quits or a petition is made to remove him.

Re lapdogs: There's a pug breeder near the airport if your missus fancies one of them.

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## Little Chuchok

> Originally Posted by Dillinger
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear about your dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you can't be that obtuse ?

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## slackula

I've posted my thoughts on dog poisoning and the scumbags who do it before so no need to rehash.

Condolences on your loss Rick, take a little time to grieve and then find some new companions.

I have 2 soi dogs that we gave a home to and they are loyal, extremely friendly (although curious but politely cautious with strangers) and not afraid to kick up a racket in the night if somebody unknown comes snooping around.

OK, they aren't about win any prizes at Crufts but as far as temperament and cost of maintenance go they are perfect little autonomous home security devices.

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## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> My second theory is more bothersome. It involves older men poisoning any dogs in the area of a future theft. Getting rid of the alarm is the first step of any theft. Luckily, I have build a block wall with a locking steel gate around the front of the house and it would be more difficult to steal anything from us than from the neighbors.
> 
> 
> That seems to be the normal reason for something like that.
> 
> Very sorry to hear of your losses.


Yes....use to be more common place than today. But still happens.
Some scroundrels will go through the whole village overnight/early morning and set poisoned goodies out for all canines that might be a future nuisance towards their thieving activities...

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## barbaro

> ^^
> Not really. The Pit Bull was pretty quiet. The smaller dog barked if someone came around. *Across the street is where most of the barking happened, and up the street.*


The poison could have been intended for _other_ dogs.

Regardless, sorry to hear about this.

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> I live in a village about 10km outside Udon Thani.
> 
> 
> Sorry to hear of the loss of your dogs. Not likely the case given your location but I had a beautiful gentle Rottie poisoned in Phuket. Found out was done by a Muslim restaurant owner just up the beach from the house.


Norton, since you found out who did the poisoning, did you do anything with that information?

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> Way off base Xanax. Do your homework.
> 
> 
> Well it's not difficult is it, the dogs were killed because Thais nearby either did not like the dogs or the owner. As for pit bulls being angels, not hard to find out that in fact they are not and were not bred to be. Don't know about here ot the USA but owners of them in the UK are normally chavs with tattoos, on the dole and who say things like 'i'd kill for my kids' while strutting round the council estate with a beast that would do just that. Normally they give the dog a name like Tyson, demon or lucifer, bit of a give-away really.


I would rather not get into the pit bull debate, but there are also hundreds of sites stating the pit bull is not the demon many think. They were used for fighting because of their physical strength and overall stature and head shape, but they had to be trained to fight. Anyway, there were about 4 other dogs poisoned on the same day, which leads me to believe it was young donothing Thais.

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## rickschoppers

> Quite a lot of melodrama here from farang drama queens
> 
> My wife had a few of her dogs and cats die during her moobarn years.
> 
> Its not hells angels hepped-up on speedballs, nor alien extermination. 
> 
> Its simply villagers putting down poison - usually to tackle vermin such as rats.  The moo barn pets wander round innocently - often into the yards of neighbours and consume it.



My dogs never "wandered". They were kept within our block walls and our steel gate was locked at night, so this theory does not hold.

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## November Rain

> happened to one of the posters on TD (CMN) a while back.


What dog? Not Inzie, The one he got from us?

Sorry to hear about your dogs, Rick. Very, very common in Thailand. PP is right. The Thais that favour this method reckon that by dropping poison, they are not killing the dog. It is the dog's "choice" or karma to take it. So, the dog is the one guilty of taking the life, not they. As for the reason? Who knows? I doubt it was for kicks. Local dogs barking and them just poisoning any dog, not caring if it was the guilty party or planned burglary would be most likely. Horrific death. I've sadly seen it many times  :Sad:

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## natalie8

There was this thread recently too: https://teakdoor.com/living-in-thaila...-thailand.html (Dog Poisoning Thailand)

Very sad. I'm really sorry to hear that, Rick.

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## RickThai

If they weren't chronic barkers and never chased people (or attacked someone else's cat or dog), than it does seem that they were killed either out of spite; or more likely, because someone wants to eventually try and rob you sometime in the future.

Losing a good dog like losing your best friend.

RickThai

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## rickschoppers

> There was this thread recently too: https://teakdoor.com/living-in-thaila...-thailand.html (Dog Poisoning Thailand)
> 
> Very sad. I'm really sorry to hear that, Rick.



This was an interesting thread to read. There were a lot of different perspectives. Some I agreed with while others, I did not. There were plenty of comments against dog owners who let their dogs free range, which I agree with. I never let me pit bull off our property and often he was chained up even if the gate was closed. The small dog was more my wife's and she let him roam, which I did not agree with but felt it was her decision. I do believe that keeping your dogs fenced in on your own property shows respect for the neighbors and is less hazardous for the dog.

There seems to be more dog poisonings in Thailand than what I am used to, which is one of the problems. The overall attitude toward dogs in Thailand is also hard for me to understand. Yes, they are a poor people with very little education, but that does not explain how a practicing Buddhist would kill as easy as they do. I also think their religion teaches not to cause sorrow or unhappiness to others. It is really a contradiction in terms when so many dogs are poisoned in this country. I am not sure if I will ever truly understand the culture.

My advice to dog owners is to build a big wall around your property and do not allow your dogs to wander outside its boundaries. Bring them in at night and be aware of their whereabouts. You almost have to treat them as kids to protect them from harm. Too bad this environment exists, but it is fact that after the sun goes down, you're dogs are not really "safe" in Thailand.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Yes, they are a poor people with very little education, but that does not explain how a practicing Buddhist would kill as easy as they do. I also think their religion teaches not to cause sorrow or unhappiness to others.


The bible teaches 'thou shalt not kill', but it doesn't stop the 'Christian' West doing it.

They may be 'Buddhist' (kind of) but the overriding theme is their culture is stupidity & laziness.

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## rickschoppers

_The bible teaches 'thou shalt not kill', but it doesn't stop the 'Christian' West doing it.


_*Good point Marmite....*

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## Norton

> Norton, since you found out who did the poisoning, did you do anything with that information?


No need. Shortly after the poisoning, the restaurant had an unfortunate incident. Around 2AM, bottled gas leak exploded and burned down the place. Som Nam Na. :Wink:

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## rickschoppers

^
Justice!!

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## misskit

That will teach them to mess with the White folk's dogs.  :Smile: 

We are serious about our mutts!

----------


## Bowzer

Rick, that is a sad and shocking story. I am sorry for your loss. The same thing happened to me some years ago with a dog I have brought from the UK. I can empathise.

----------


## rickschoppers

Thank you Bowzer. I think most people find it something that should not happen. It is just too bad some Thais don't feel the same way. There is no consequence to poisoning dogs in Thailand and that might send a message that it is OK. Totally wrong in my book.

----------


## pickel

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> Norton, since you found out who did the poisoning, did you do anything with that information?
> 
> 
> No need. Shortly after the poisoning, the restaurant had an unfortunate incident. Around 2AM, bottled gas leak exploded and burned down the place. Som Nam Na.


Smart of you to wipe your fingerprints off.  :Wink:

----------


## Khonwan

> Originally Posted by natalie8
> 
> 
> There was this thread recently too: https://teakdoor.com/living-in-thaila...-thailand.html (Dog Poisoning Thailand)
> 
> Very sad. I'm really sorry to hear that, Rick.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Well said, Rick. Ive poisoned a few dogs around my farm and have no sympathy for them or their owners who choose to inflict their pet on others, and who were pre-warned, especially when one persons pet can often be a destroyer of anothers peace and property. But I genuinely extend my sympathy to you since you appear to have been a responsible dog owner who took the necessary steps to ensure your dogs were not a nuisance to others.

----------


## xanax

IMO nobody who buys a pitt bull is responsible:

Are Pit Bulls Dangerous | Dog Bite Statistics | LiveScience

Even the U.S. Army has acknowledged that pit bulls are high-risk dogs; they are therefore prohibited in some military housing units.

Pit bulls join several other breeds on the list of dogs that are recognized as more likely to attack and cause significant injury: The Centeres for Disease Control and Prevention analyzed data and found the following breeds are implicated in a majority of dog-bite fatalities:

Pit bulls
Rottweilers
German shepherds
Huskies
Wolf hybrids
Malamutes
Doberman pinschers
Chow-chows
Saint Bernards
Great Danes
It's worth noting that no matter how these data are arranged — mixed breeds versus pure breeds, injuries versus fatalities — pit bulls consistently rank at the top of the list for attacks, and by a wide margin. (Rottweilers generally rank a distant second.)


Sure there are sites that want you to believe Pitt Bulls have an undeserved rep and that they are more likely to lick your face off than rip it off, but the stats prove otherwise. These dogs have been bred for one thing only-agression. Of course nobody owning one will agree. They do not have to be trained to fight, they are naturally highly aggressive and dangerous, that's why people buy them in the first place.

----------


## xanax

> Well said, Rick. Ive poisoned a few dogs around my farm and have no sympathy for them or their owners who choose to inflict their pet on others, and who were pre-warned, especially when one persons pet can often be a destroyer of anothers peace and property..


Well done, dogs can a real pest and I have no sympathy with nuisance dog owners if they get killed, did you use rat poison?

----------


## Satonic

^ You're a cvnt.

----------


## xanax

why? I expect you are a dog 'lover' and a meat eater at the same time.

----------


## natalie8

I'm really baffled by people who commented on dogs making noise. Thais are the noisiest and most inconsiderate towards neighbours when it comes to their loud crap music at ungodly hours, setting off fireworks every night, their own dogs barking, adults shouting to talk over everyone else, revving their loud vehicles,  and on and on. No Thai would ever complain, they just let it happen, so if a farang comments, look out!

----------


## mark131v

Xanax, Satonic is right you are a cvut

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> Even the U.S. Army has acknowledged that pit bulls are high-risk dogs; they are therefore prohibited in some military housing units.


More due to the entire US Army sharing a single brain cell than the fault of the dog.

----------


## kmart

Sorry to hear about your dogs, Rick. On a good chance that you are being prepared for a burglary, I'd think about beefing up security at your house. I hope this is not the case, though.

----------


## November Rain

> why? I expect you are a dog 'lover' and a meat eater at the same time.


Animals killed for meat are generally killed quickly and humanely. Have you ever seen how long it takes for an animal to die from poisoning? How much it suffers? I, for one, would not eat meat if the way it was killed was a long, slow, painful process.

----------


## Looper

> Originally Posted by xanax
> 
> why? I expect you are a dog 'lover' and a meat eater at the same time.
> 
> 
> Animals killed for meat are generally killed quickly and humanely. Have you ever seen how long it takes for an animal to die from poisoning? How much it suffers? I, for one, would not eat meat if the way it was killed was a long, slow, painful process.


And also dogs are not really the same as other animals.

I am not a dog lover but I can see they are different. They interact with humans in a much more dynamic way than other animals so humans feel that they have a relationship with and love their dogs so hurting or killing them is worse than hurting other animals since you are also hurting the dog's owner.

----------


## Little Chuchok

> ]
> 
>  Well said, Rick. Ive poisoned a few dogs around my farm and have no sympathy for them or their owners who choose to inflict their pet on others, and who were pre-warned, especially when one persons pet can often be a destroyer of anothers peace and property. But I genuinely extend my sympathy to you since you appear to have been a responsible dog owner who took the necessary steps to ensure your dogs were not a nuisance to others.



You poisoned them? What a gutless creep.

If you are going to kill them then shoot them.Like a man....

----------


## peterb17

Damn - have two dogs- a poodle ( I know but they were very popular due to Royal connections) and a shoodle weird cross.
Back in the UK had Scotties .
You get to love your dogs and they are a part of the family.
Sometimes do not understand what goes on is this strange country.

----------


## nidhogg

Without taking sides on this, I would have to note that poisoning is traditionally a woman methodology, and there for I would have to argue that anyone poisoning a dog is a f*cking c*nt.


Without taking sides of course.

----------


## xanax

> Originally Posted by xanax
> 
> why? I expect you are a dog 'lover' and a meat eater at the same time.
> 
> 
> Animals killed for meat are generally killed quickly and humanely. Have you ever seen how long it takes for an animal to die from poisoning? How much it suffers? I, for one, would not eat meat if the way it was killed was a long, slow, painful process.


Have you ever been to an abattoir? not very humane I can assure you, terrified animals strung up and slaughtered. Then there is the halal way of course-a nice slit to the throat and bleeding to death. In Thai villages pigs get delivered in a cage at celebrations and get badly knifed to death, sickening but just like the slaughter house on a smaller scale. I forget who said if abattoirs had glass walls everyone would be vegetarian, but there is some truth in it. So, if you eat meat you do not object to animals being killed, just the method, so what if the dogs were killed as quickly as a cow, would that square with your conscience?

----------


## Khonwan

> Originally Posted by Khonwan
> 
> 
> ]
> 
>  Well said, Rick. I’ve poisoned a few dogs around my farm and have no sympathy for them or their owners who choose to inflict their pet on others, and who were pre-warned, especially when one person’s pet can often be a destroyer of another’s peace and property. But I genuinely extend my sympathy to you since you appear to have been a responsible dog owner who took the necessary steps to ensure your dogs were not a nuisance to others.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What an idiot. How can I shoot one if I don't have a gun? And even if I could buy a gun, why would I want to risk adding to the already high numbers of accidental shootings by keeping a gun at home where I have children? There's a much easier solution: dog owners should keep their dogs under control. Simple. What's so difficult to understand about that?? You want a dog - control it. You can't be bothered controlling a dog - don't own one. No bad dog owners - no poisoned dogs.


Edit: "like a man." 555 this coming from someone who admits to being scared shitless by a snake! Grow a pair.

----------


## November Rain

> I forget who said if abattoirs had glass walls everyone would be vegetarian,


Wrong. There was a series on in UK a couple of years ago where they showed the slaughter of animals to diners through a glass wall (meat eating and veggie) and the diners could choose to eat the meat after. Most of the meat eaters did. I was veggie for 10 years and watched the shows in all of their graphic detail to see if I really am comfortable with eating meat, knowing what goes on. I found it upsetting and disturbing, but I am still a meat eater.
As I said, poisoning is far more drawn out and inhumane.

----------


## Khonwan

^  I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you but how long does it take, based on your experiences? Serious question – I’ll reply with my experience.

----------


## charleyboy

^ That would depend on ...How big the dog was, how much poison it had digested etc...

I got to one of our dogs as it was going into spasms, frothing at the mouth.
Got her to the vet's and she was saved.

No such thing as a timescale!

----------


## xanax

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. I have not eaten meat or fish for well over 40 years but it does not bother me that others do, just apersonal choice. It always seems odd though when people think it's ok to kill and eat animals but are then horrified when it's suggested there is nothing wrong with eating horses or cats and dogs, same as anything else. It would be nice if meat eaters had to kill and gut their own victims, I wonder how many would be up for that?
On the dog pests we obviously just need a faster poison that's all.

----------


## slackula

> On the dog pests we obviously just need a faster poison that's all.


The problem with poison is that it is not a targeted solution to a problem, and the available ones cause a nasty lingering death.

There is nothing to stop the dog of some responsible dog owner which happens to get out for a few minutes from eating it, nor cats or even (heaven forbid ) a child roaming about his Soi on a skateboard or something.

I consider myself a dog lover, but if one of mine were worrying or attacking livestock and got shot by a farmer then I'd take responsibility and apologise to him, I'd consider the farmer to be well within his rights.

The problem is when some dick randomly takes it upon himself to spread poisoned bait around without warning anybody and those with well-behaved dogs which might happen to be sitting out in the Soi, wearing a collar and a rabies vaccination tag etc, take the bait.

----------


## nidhogg

> All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.


Indeed.  Dogs are largely known to be loyal and sometimes even self sacrificing.

When I see a chicken or even a cow with the same attributes, I might reconsider my omnivore status.

We (humans) entered into a mutual benefit pact with dogs millenia ago, and we are the ones who betray that pact, not dogs.

Every time we harm, torture or even, god forbid, eat, a dog, we show ourselves as less than human.

fact.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> When I see a chicken or even a cow with the same attributes, I might reconsider my omnivore status.


I guess you don't eat pork then.

----------


## nidhogg

^ Indeed.  I do not.

----------


## Khonwan

> ^ That would depend on ...How big the dog was, how much poison it had digested etc...
> 
> I got to one of our dogs as it was going into spasms, frothing at the mouth.
> Got her to the vet's and she was saved.
> 
> No such thing as a timescale!


 True, but in my experience, with the right food and poison, 5 minutes to death and no whimpering or barking.

----------


## Khonwan

> Originally Posted by xanax
> 
> On the dog pests we obviously just need a faster poison that's all.
> 
> 
> The problem with poison is that it is not a targeted solution to a problem, and the available ones cause a nasty lingering death.
> 
> There is nothing to stop the dog of some responsible dog owner which happens to get out for a few minutes from eating it, nor cats or even (heaven forbid ) a child roaming about his Soi on a skateboard or something.
> 
> ...


I agree.

----------


## November Rain

> but how long does it take, based on your experiences? Serious question – I’ll reply with my experience.





> That would depend on ...How big the dog was, how much poison it had digested etc... I got to one of our dogs as it was going into spasms, frothing at the mouth. Got her to the vet's and she was saved. No such thing as a timescale!


True, Charleyboy. I have seen it go as long as 24 hours. That is my personal experience. I have also managed (with vets help) to save one who was sick with poison, but the 2 dogs with her had died. Obviously, the amount they ingest and their general health have a lot to do with it. Poisoning is a cruel, shit, cowardly way to kill. IMO.

----------


## charleyboy

> True, but in my experience, with the right food and poison, 5 minutes to death and no whimpering or barking


Never thought I'd ever say this about a TD member...


You are a wanker of the first order.

----------


## somtamslap

^ It's his nick that does it for me.


What a knob!  :smiley laughing:

----------


## jizzybloke

^^ I'll second that

Rick could there be someone who has taken a dislike to you for one reason or another but went for revenge in this cowardly way?

Could simply be that there are some horrible bastards in this world and there is no actual reason apart from being sick twisted fuckers.

----------


## Khonwan

You got something against wanking, charleyboy?

  Dogs that are allowed to roam wild are just as much vermin as rats when they become pests. Never poisoned rats? Never sprayed insecticide? Ever witnessed how ants curl up in what appears to be, and may well be, agony?

  I wonder what your attitude is to human execution by lethal injection.

----------


## Khonwan

Somtamslap, if you had sufficient intelligence you might have noticed that I live in naKHONsaWAN, and that Khonwan is known shorthand for that location (just like Korat). No, never been sweet – I don’t recommend it.

----------


## charleyboy

^ You are one, sad,nasty coont, I'd never like to meet.

----------


## slackula

> Never sprayed insecticide? Ever witnessed how ants curl up in what appears to be, and may well be, agony?
> 
> I wonder what your attitude is to human execution by lethal injection.


You should stop trying to make analogies.

----------


## Khonwan

^ I could say you should stop writing, but I'll just ask, "Why?"

----------


## mark131v

You and Xanax are horrible nasty cvnts and personally I have no problem with people dying because a lot of them make their own decisions, animals don't and I truly hope karma pays you a visit

----------


## slackula

> I could say you should stop writing, but I'll just ask, "Why?"


Because you are headed into absurd reductionism. 

Have you ever taken or administered an antibiotic?

----------


## bankao dreamer

Gutted for you Rick we flew with our 2 dogs to Thailand in May, Im back in the UK sorting some stuff out before I go back for good middle of October and I worry about my 2 all the time. I know how I would feel if anything like that happened to mine. Hope you find the gits.

----------


## November Rain

> Originally Posted by Khonwan
> 
>  but how long does it take, based on your experiences? Serious question  Ill reply with my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You said you'd give your experience, Khonwan. And I'd like a truer more average than 5 mins. please.

----------


## peterpan

> ^^ I'll second that
> 
> Could simply be that there are some horrible bastards in this world and there is no actual reason apart from being sick twisted fuckers.


 That's the big mystery of life Jizz, innit? why do some people grow up to be a Stalin or Pol Pot and others angels like Mother Teresa or my own mother. 

Just decent compassionate people. Sadly in Thailand there seem to be a dearth of the later, compassion and charity seem to be in short supply here.  It certainly exists, an example is Khun Boo. the guy who provided a service taking my kids, and others to school. 
A lovely avuncular gentleman.
 Patience of a saint and always looking for those he can help.

 Cynics would say its a business, so what? but one just knows he a genuine and caring Individual. 

Why do some people get pleasure out of causing pain and suffering and others get the same from helping.
 A rhetorical question well beyond my  meager intellect to answer.

----------


## Khamprasith

"I believe I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't. To know that the results are profitable to the race would not remove my hostility to it. THE PAIN WHICH IT INFLICTS UPON NON-CONSENTING ANIMALS is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further."
        --Mark Twain

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
        --Ghandi

----------


## pickel

> Dogs that are allowed to roam wild are just as much vermin as rats when they become pests. Never poisoned rats? Never sprayed insecticide? Ever witnessed how ants curl up in what appears to be, and may well be, agony?  I wonder what your attitude is to human execution by lethal injection.


Do you feel the same about the neighborhood kids?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## rickschoppers

> ^^ I'll second that
> 
> Rick could there be someone who has taken a dislike to you for one reason or another but went for revenge in this cowardly way?
> 
> Could simply be that there are some horrible bastards in this world and there is no actual reason apart from being sick twisted fuckers.


I don't think so, but you never know how people take even you just being from another country. My BIL has pissed off a few people, but I do not know to what degree. Since our dogs were not the only ones poisoned, I am not so sure it was directed at us. 

It still may be that there is a burglary soon to follow. We are more secure than the neighbors since we have a block wall/barbed wire fence and the steel gate is locked every night or when nobody is at home. There are now 5 family members living in the house to keep an eye on things, so if there in a burglary, it may happen to someone else. Only time will tell.

----------


## alitongkat

> Why do some people get pleasure out of causing pain and suffering and others get the same from helping.
>  A rhetorical question well beyond my  meager intellect to answer.


very interesting question, indeed...

its caused by the "sensation" of their own life, i think...
they dont feel happy or can be really satisified by something...

particularly disturbing is the length, and the effort / time they "invest" in plotting and causing harm...
as most people do have other things, that please them...

what they all have in common is a huge jealousy, an envy of others...
of really every tiny thing...

very most of their life circles only about other people...
because they dont really have an own one...

just a guess  :Wink:

----------


## xanax

> You and Xanax are horrible nasty cvnts and personally I have no problem with people dying because a lot of them make their own decisions, animals don't and I truly hope karma pays you a visit


So how long have you not eaten animals for then? if you still do you are a hypocrite of the highest order. if you are a carnivore you are responsible for the (often unpleasant) deaths of scores of animals a year, what about that 'karma' The nasty people are the ones who are quite happy to see some animals killed but then sob into their hankies when its another species, cuddly woodley one normally, fvcking idiots. If you love animals don't eat the buggers if you don't then stop moaning about some pests being killed while you tuck into another one.

----------


## Khonwan

Ok, I’ve enjoyed a good night’s sleep, a hearty breakfast, and more stimulating conversation elsewhere on the Internet, so now I’m ready for the usual crap here.

  Mark131v, humans are animals also. I find attitudes on this forum consistently indicating greater compassion to dogs than to human beings. BTW, I don’t believe in karma.

  Quimbiam, to your first point, I don’t share your conclusion; to your second, what are you trying to say??? Are you trying to tell me that by taking antibiotics I’m killing life? Of course I do, and of course I know I do. Where is the inconsistency in my view of vermin in this regard?

  November Rain, I was being honest! I give a massive amount that works immediately. It colours the food blue, but that doesn’t put the vermin off. I’d be happy to reduce that 5 minutes to instantaneous if you could advise on an alternative, and relatively easy, means to killing vermin that doesn’t rely on guns. Do you poison those other 4-legged intelligent mammals, rats?

  Pickel, no - I don’t consider any human as vermin.

  Xanax, these guys are unfortunately blinded by their double standards.

----------


## xanax

> Why do some people get pleasure out of causing pain and suffering and others get the same from helping.
>  A rhetorical question well beyond my  meager intellect to answer.


I have not seen anyone saying they take pleasure in poisoning pest dogs. Humans cause enormous pain to animals all the time, they do eat them after all. As well as that they shoot them, hunt them, spear them and trap them. Getting sentimental  over fluffy getting shut up, while ignoring the enormous amount of suffering caused to other species, and taking part in that process yourself _is_ a mystery.

----------


## Dillinger

Interesting debate this one, what with the amount of stray dogs in Thailand and the Governments lack of control, I can understand fully why farmers would need to take matters into their own hands.





> I have seen it go as long as 24 hours


So why not do the humane act of putting a bullet through it's skull yourself ?

----------


## youneverknow

If you are looking for dogs there are plenty of them roaming the streets up in Esarn. Buying a dog just adds more dogs to Thailand. The street dogs running rampant in a lot of places in Thailand will eventually meet some sort of cruelty so taking them in instead of buying or searching for certain breeds will save a dog's life. If you love dogs then it shouldn't matter which one you take in. The dog population is out of control now due to the crackdown on the picking them up and taking them over the  Lao border to be made into food. I know the real problem is Thai thinking and leadership but the dogs are there. Dog lovers really aren't dog lovers if only some breeds are loved. 

Do a good thing, take in an unwanted dog.

----------


## xanax

> Do a good thing, take in an unwanted dog.


Or eat one of course.

----------


## November Rain

> Do you poison those other 4-legged intelligent mammals, rats?


Nope. Never have. In fact I own rats. I had 2 hairless dumbo rexes who unfortunately died recently from old age. I presently have a gorgeous champagne coloured albino and will be getting another in a couple of weeks, when I'll be here long enough to introduce them & make sure they don't fight. You're absolutely right, they are intelligent. And very sociable. But this is about dogs, not my ratties...

----------


## November Rain

> So why not do the humane act of putting a bullet through it's skull yourself ?


Because I was trying to do the other humane thing of trying to save its life

----------


## Zooheekock

> if you are a carnivore you are responsible for the (often unpleasant) deaths of scores of animals a year, what about that 'karma' The nasty people are the ones who are quite happy to see some animals killed but then sob into their hankies when its another species, cuddly woodley one normally, fvcking idiots. If you love animals don't eat the buggers if you don't then stop moaning about some pests being killed while you tuck into another one.


People are terrible hypocrites about animals and animal welfare but it doesn't follow that it's therefore better (if one is a meat-eater) to go about happily poisoning dogs. Yes, you have a more consistent set of beliefs/actions - you're a more complete bastard but you have to be a fucking idiot to think that being a morally consistent grade-A bastard is preferable to being a morally inconsistent grade-B bastard; that's a fucking bizarre attitude to take.

----------


## Little Chuchok

> What an idiot. How can I shoot one if I don't have a gun? And even if I could buy a gun, why would I want to risk adding to the already high numbers of accidental shootings by keeping a gun at home where I have children? There's a much easier solution: dog owners should keep their dogs under control. Simple. What's so difficult to understand about that?? You want a dog - control it. You can't be bothered controlling a dog - don't own one. No bad dog owners - no poisoned dogs.
> 
> 
> Edit: "like a man." 555 this coming from someone who admits to being scared shitless by a snake! Grow a pair.


Trap the dogs, get a club and smack them on the head.Kills them very quickly if you haven't the balls to borrow a gun.Spinless twat,

poisoning is cruel.

Where did I mention anything about dog owners.??You're not to bright now are you.

----------


## billy the kid

some families in the uk were complaining that someone had poisoned their dogs and then have been told about snails or slugs that leave something on the ground is the culprit. makes dogs sick or kills them. don't know all the details tho.
also in the forests where people walk their dogs,, they died after chewing on whatever.

----------


## Khonwan

> Originally Posted by Khonwan
> 
> 
> What an idiot. How can I shoot one if I don't have a gun? And even if I could buy a gun, why would I want to risk adding to the already high numbers of accidental shootings by keeping a gun at home where I have children? There's a much easier solution: dog owners should keep their dogs under control. Simple. What's so difficult to understand about that?? You want a dog - control it. You can't be bothered controlling a dog - don't own one. No bad dog owners - no poisoned dogs.
> 
> 
> Edit: "like a man." 555 this coming from someone who admits to being scared shitless by a snake! Grow a pair.
> 
> 
> ...


Lol. You didnt score well in your English interpretation exams in school, did you? 

  BTW, have you ever witnessed a medium or large animal being clubbed to death? Unless you are skilled, and that takes experience of usually doing it wrong whilst learning, it is very difficult to kill it quickly and painlessly by clubbing. I have witnessed it  19 years ago in a village house where around 5 grown pigs were each hit with a hammer to the head several times until they convulsed. That pork was for the local market.

  Now, Id like you to tell me how you think Id be more of a man to shoot an animal? Thats just a very stupid notion. Might be a better death for the animal but how does that make you more of a man? How brave or tough do you think you need to be to shoot a dog. As for myself, when I can catch themI use my bare hands  strangulation is very effective and pretty quick. Got to be more manly than shooting, since one ends up getting bitten too.

  Ever shot an animal? Once again, unless you know the exact required path of the bullet through the brain, death is not quick and painlessand yes, Ive witnessed one of my cattle being shot.

  You ever seen livestock, sometimes several, left to die in agony because some fool so-called dog-lover couldnt be bothered to secure his little sweet bundle of fur?

  Do try to make a better attempt this time to understand the English in this post, theres a good boy.

----------


## nidhogg

^ Ok.  You are the expert on killing animals.  Congrats.  Bit like being the best rapist on the block, but hey!  Enjoy your glory.

----------


## xanax

is cyanide available in Thailand? that would seem to be the answer to all the objections over poisoning taking too long/being cruel.

----------


## Zooheekock

^^^ I thought this was about killing Thai dogs, not battling werewolves, titans and dragons (requires a bullet made from a nail of the True Cross which has been blessed by the Pope, I'm told). 

My dog is pretty average sized and I don't think it would take much to cave in his skull, especially if you normally throttle them to death and so are used to killing things with your bare hands (oh, what a toughie you are). And nor would I have to call in assistance from CSI Nakorn Nowhere to work out the trajectory required for a fatal shooting. Anywhere in his brain would pretty much do, I imagine.

----------


## Khonwan

^ You imagine wrong. Go do your research if you don't believe me. And thanks for the compliment, BTW.

----------


## Zooheekock

Well, you could always explain how yourself - you are, after all, the mysteriously prolific and expert animal killer. Anyway. Assuming it was possible to shoot him in the brain and not kill him, it couldn't take more than, say, three shots, which still seems enormously preferable to his being poisoned.

----------


## Khonwan

I've farmed hundreds of cattle and pigs here in addition to rearing sheep, goats, chickens, ducks, turkeys, fish plus cats and dogs.

----------


## Zooheekock

How nice for you. So you've no doubt developed an intimate knowledge of the ease with which one can misplace a bullet (nay, half a dozen bullets) in the tangerine-sized brain of a dog. I bow to your superior skills in killing things.

----------


## alitongkat

you could throw them from some pattaya building...

one bullet from a real gun is certainly enough to kill a dog, even if you shoot in his ass...

----------


## somtamslap

> I've farmed hundreds of cattle and pigs here in addition to rearing sheep, goats, chickens, ducks, turkeys, fish plus cats and dogs.


 Which were the most receptive to a fumbled anal thumping round the back of the barn? Just asking for a friend.

----------


## slackula

> Quimbiam, to your first point, I dont share your conclusion; to your second, what are you trying to say??? Are you trying to tell me that by taking antibiotics Im killing life? Of course I do, and of course I know I do. Where is the inconsistency in my view of vermin in this regard?



I wasn't accusing you of inconsistency, I was saying that your statement of killing an insect is a bad reductionist analogy to the poisoning of dogs or lethal injection of humans and trying to illustrate it by mentioning antibiotics.

I am sorry if I didn't write it well.

Please remember that previously in the thread I had agreed with your right as a farmer to protect your livestock, and I stated that if my dogs were shot by a farmer because they were a threat to his animals I would apologise and understand.

I do not agree with poisoning dogs though, I think (from first hand viewing of a harmless puppy I owned dying from random poisoning) that poison is not a good way to deal with nuisance dogs.

----------


## Little Chuchok

> Lol. You didnt score well in your English interpretation exams in school, did you? 
> 
>   BTW, have you ever witnessed a medium or large animal being clubbed to death? Unless you are skilled, and that takes experience of usually doing it wrong whilst learning, it is very difficult to kill it quickly and painlessly by clubbing. I have witnessed it  19 years ago in a village house where around 5 grown pigs were each hit with a hammer to the head several times until they convulsed. That pork was for the local market.
> 
>   Now, Id like you to tell me how you think Id be more of a man to shoot an animal? Thats just a very stupid notion. Might be a better death for the animal but how does that make you more of a man? How brave or tough do you think you need to be to shoot a dog. As for myself, when I can catch themI use my bare hands  strangulation is very effective and pretty quick. Got to be more manly than shooting, since one ends up getting bitten too.
> 
>   Ever shot an animal? Once again, unless you know the exact required path of the bullet through the brain, death is not quick and painlessand yes, Ive witnessed one of my cattle being shot.
> 
>   You ever seen livestock, sometimes several, left to die in agony because some fool so-called dog-lover couldnt be bothered to secure his little sweet bundle of fur?
> ...


I bet you are the life and sole of a party......

Ive shot animals.Death was quick.Very quick.

I would never poison an animal.Slow lingering death.You coward, because you are too 'squeamish' to do the right thing.

If you don't know where the brain is in an animal, I would suggest you look it up on the net. It's not difficult and you seem like a very bright lad.

You've witnessed this you've witnessed that....never done anything. 

You heard some pigs squealing and that's not ok, but putting a dog through agony by poison is ok? 

You don't sound like a farmer to me.

More like a city boy who has a bit of land and plays farmer.
 :mid:

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## Khonwan

Ok, thanks for your explanation, Quimbian; we’ll have to agree to disagree on your criticism of the logic though.

  Little Chewcock, I’m only a farmer of over 15 years here who, for part of that time, relied only on my farming income which is over one million baht (profits) per year; been writing on farming for 7 years. No longer farming livestock significantly (I’m still cropping though – cassava, maize, rice, mungbean; I have 210 rai). Though that farming income continues, it is no longer the majority of my income (no overseas income). I believe I’m qualified to call myself a farmer, and several members of TD or TV have been to my farm. This now stated, I don’t give a toss what you believe. Anyway, I’ve made my views clear, and answered many questions. I realise that idiots like you, Chewcock, are too emotional to conduct a rational debate, though I’m pleased to see that many others did, and mostly kept it relatively civil. So, I’m unlikely to reply (to anyone) further on this thread.

  November Rain – trust you to own rats! What were the odds of me asking that question of someone who owned rats? (Rhetorical question, lol).

----------


## Little Chuchok

> Ok, thanks for your explanation, Quimbian; well have to agree to disagree on your criticism of the logic though.
> 
>   Little Chewcock, Im only a farmer of over 15 years here who, for part of that time, relied only on my farming income which is over one million baht (profits) per year; been writing on farming for 7 years. No longer farming livestock significantly (Im still cropping though  cassava, maize, rice, mungbean; I have 210 rai). Though that farming income continues, it is no longer the majority of my income (no overseas income). I believe Im qualified to call myself a farmer, and several members of TD or TV have been to my farm. This now stated, I dont give a toss what you believe. Anyway, Ive made my views clear, and answered many questions. I realise that idiots like you, Chewcock, are too emotional to conduct a rational debate, though Im pleased to see that many others did, and mostly kept it relatively civil. So, Im unlikely to reply (to anyone) further on this thread.
> 
>   November Rain  trust you to own rats! What were the odds of me asking that question of someone who owned rats? (Rhetorical question, lol).


You started farming in Thailand? Pffft



You've really got tickets on yourself, haven't you son?

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## xanax

He did not say he started here, but 15 years here, are you jealous?

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## Little Chuchok

^Why would I be jealous Brains?

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## intothewoods

So how about the good old agree to disagree thing now?

I was hoping to learn more about how to protect dogs from getting poisoned and not people having some sort of internet bar fight. 

That's an interesting read: Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## rickschoppers

Unfortunately, there is no way to protect your dogs from being poisoned. As I have already mentioned, I kept my dogs within the walls of our property (except for an occasional step into the road by our small dog) and our steel gate was always closed except for when we brought the cars in and out of the drive and it was locked at night. 

Neither dog could be considered a constant barker. They did bark from time to time when someone came around at night. They never bit anyone and were considered friendly. Yes, the pit bull has a reputation, as a breed, but mine was a big baby and ignored most that went on around him. 

I have concluded not to spend a lot of money on another dog since I have seen too many die over the last 7 years and will probably have my wife obtain one, of her choosing, for free. A Thai dog has a better chance of surviving all the diseases due to the natural immunity passed along by the mother. You will still need to have all the shots against typical dog diseases from a vet and rabies is sometimes given free by the government.

Having a Thai Ridgeback will probably be my personal choice for our next dog since they are well suited for the country. No matter what we do, we will have to be prepared that any dog we take in has a good chance to be run over or inadvertently poisoned. 

If you like dogs and live in Thailand, be prepared to lose most and only the lucky ones will live as long as our 11 year old Thai dog that just passed away due to old age.

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## nidhogg

> If you like dogs and live in Thailand, be prepared to lose most and only the lucky ones will live as long as our 11 year old Thai dog that just passed away due to old age.


The big factor would seem to be whether it is a house dog or not.  We have had one dog (my first, a maltese) for nearly 12 years now.  Old age is creeping up on him, but he is a house dog.  Never out at night, and only out when no one is home in the day - and if he did not chew everything in sight when left alone, he would be inside then as well.

Different game for yard dogs I would think.

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## SiLeakHunt

I don't understand unprovoked malice, even if you don't believe in karma you stand nothing to gain from poisoning pets

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## GR3

Imagine you work long hard night shifts and your neighbour has yapping dogs, you ask them to keep the dogs quiet but they never do. Dogs are dogs and they bark. or somebody keeps letting their dog shit on your lawn, now proving who it is or who's dogs are barking is hard. Harder still is going up to the 6'4" 300lb owner and having a civil word, they usually break down into stressful arguments, neighbour wars or worse. No much easier to just poison everybody's dog and have a stress free life.

You asked why I am just giving you motive, it's not what I would do. I'm Vegetarian and a cat owner.

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## nidhogg

> I'm Vegetarian and a cat owner.

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## xanax

> You asked why I am just giving you motive, it's not what I would do. I'm Vegetarian and a cat owner.


good for you

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
>  
> If you like dogs and live in Thailand, be prepared to lose most and only the lucky ones will live as long as our 11 year old Thai dog that just passed away due to old age.
> 
> 
> The big factor would seem to be whether it is a house dog or not.  We have had one dog (my first, a maltese) for nearly 12 years now.  Old age is creeping up on him, but he is a house dog.  Never out at night, and only out when no one is home in the day - and if he did not chew everything in sight when left alone, he would be inside then as well.
> 
> Different game for yard dogs I would think.


I agree and that is why I have decided to allow my wife to get an inside "small" dog. I have had big dogs in my life and even a Great Dane that slept on the bed between my girlfriend and me. Comical really, but he had a problem about wanting to tear into other dogs when he saw them. 

Liking larger dogs, I am prepared to have a couple of "watch" dogs, of the Thai persuasion, that I would not get bent if they were poisoned. I like dogs and prefer them to live to an old age, but in Thialand, that seems to be against the natural odds.

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## misskit

^ It doesn't help to get Thai dogs so you won't get bent if they are poisoned. You will become attached and love them just a much as an expensive pedigree dog. 

I've two Thai dogs now, one is 15 years old. She can't hear, blind in one eye, and has arthritis. Grouchy old thing. Sleeps snuggled right next to me.

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## rickschoppers

^
Yes, I will get attached, but they may not be as big a target as a pit bull or other western breeds. I refuse to give in to anti-dog mentality and will probably have them until I am gone. Your having an old Thai dog helps validate my theory.

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## Dillinger

> one is 15 years old. She can't hear, blind in one eye, and has arthritis. Grouchy old thing. Sleeps snuggled right next to me.


Poor dog, every fart must be a SBD :Smile:

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## GR3

> Originally Posted by GR3
> 
> 
>  I'm Vegetarian and a cat owner.


OOOOOOO get her with her cat AVATAR!
Ha ha well as I am in love with a ladyboy I can live with that, however I an a sponsored reservist and will be going to Kandahar in November and I also BASE so that's man enough for me.

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## Marmite the Dog

> "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." --Ghandi


India's fucked then...

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## kmart

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by GR3
> ...


So you do eat meat?  :Confused:

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## johnwayne

It is a good idea to always have on hand activated charcoal ('Carbon' in Thai pharmacies), which is the number one protocol for poisonings in human and vet emergency rooms worldwide, and is given to most poisoned patients with some exceptions (see below) .  Giving it to the dog orally, the activated charcoal will adsorb the poisons.     A common method of dog ‘control’ in Thailand is to poison the dogs.  Plus some Thais just plain hate dogs, and don't think twice about killing them.

*Activated charcoal*
*Activated charcoal* should not be given to animals that have ingested caustic materials (I’ve never seen a dog ingest caustic materials!). These materials are not absorbed systemically, and the charcoal may make it more difficult to see oral and esophageal burns. Other chemicals that are not effectively adsorbed by activated charcoal include ethanol, methanol, fertilizer, fluoride, petroleum distillates, most heavy metals, iodides, nitrate, nitrites, sodium chloride, and chlorate.

But since the 'favorite' poison in Thailand is insecticides such as organophosphates and carbamates, the charcoal works great with this.

  Emesis is contraindicated (in other words, don’t make them vomit) with ingestion of alkalis, acids, corrosive agents, or hydrocarbons due to the risk of chemical burns or aspiration. The pre-existing condition of the animal also determines the indication for using an emetic. Emesis should not be induced at home in an animal that has a history of epilepsy, cardiovascular disease, or is debilitated. Veterinary supervision is recommended in these situations. Recent histories of abdominal surgery or potential for a gastric torsion are other factors that could make emesis a contraindication. It may be safest, depending on the situation, to induce vomiting in brachycephalic (short-nosed) breeds at the veterinary hospital versus at home due to aspiration risk. Emesis should not be attempted if the animal has already vomited or is exhibiting clinical signs.

  So, basically, forget making the dog vomit, unless you know the exposure to the poison was very recent.  Just empty a bunch of charcoal capsules into some milk or, better yet, chicken soup and let the dog drink it.  If you can ‘pill’ the dog (manually put the charcoal caps/tabs down his throat) then ‘pill’ him with many charcoal capsules, one after another.  Easier to use chicken soup, though.  Plus the liquid of the soup helps.

  Emetic (to make vomit) Agents 
You can use hydrogen peroxide before giving charcoal.  Only use this if you know the dog recently swallowed the poison and if the dog is 100% conscious.

  Three-percent hydrogen peroxide is an effective emetic for the dog, pig, ferret, and cat. Do not induce emesis in rodents, rabbits, birds, horses, or ruminants. The dosage is 1 teaspoon per 5 lbs., not to exceed 3 tablespoons. It should be administered undiluted – not mixed into water or food.  However it is helpful to feed a small, moist meal of either canned food or a slice of bread before inducing vomiting, as it makes emesis more productive by giving the toxicant something to adhere to. Bulb syringes, feeding syringes, or turkey basters aid in administration.   Put the syringe (with no needle) or bulb/etc  with Hydrogen Peroxide far back in his throat and squirt. Or, have some plastic tubing--or a straw-- handy and ‘push’ the tubing far back in his mouth and then squirt the hydrogen peroxide, using your mouth if necessary, down the tube into the back of his throat.  He will probably vomit instantly.  Hydrogen peroxide causes vomiting through mild gastric irritation. Vomiting usually occurs within minutes and can be repeated once if not initially successful at causing emesis.  Important to get the hydrogen peroxide in the back of his throat to insure he swallows it.  If you just squirt it into front of mouth he may just spit it out.

But vomiting is not usually enough to save the dog since vomiting never removes all the poison, so giving activated charcoal is essential.  Also, in emergency room for people, inducing vomiting is rarely done now because of the ineffectiveness of it and the danger of aspirating the vomit.  Instead, activated charcoal is given.

  You can crush activated charcoal tablets (or open capsules) and pour many of them into water, chicken soup, milk, etc and then let them drink from bowl or you administer the blackened charcoal liquid into the dogs mouth using large plastic syringe without the needle. That is, if they are conscious.  Don’t put anything in the mouth of an unconscious dog.  But note, however, that even an unconscious dog will sometimes wake up if you put chicken soup drops on his lips.  He will then drink the activated charcoal chicken soup in the bowl you have under his nose. 

  If I even suspect a dog has eaten poison —say, if he is just laying around looking sick, then I give him 5 or 10 activated charcoal capsules.  It is non-toxic and cannot hurt them so always better to give it to them just in case.  (Same goes for humans, as most food poisoning does not involved diarrhea and vomiting---rather it involves 'malaise' and feeling unwell.  A couple caps of activated charcoal will 'solve' most mild food poisoning problems).  

  Signs that suggest poisoning: mouth irritation, skin rash, lethargy, vomiting,  diarrhea, lack of appetite, drooling, staggering, hallucination causing over-reaction to sound or light, breathing difficulty, bleeding disorders (check gums for bleeding), muscle tremor and rigidity, seizure, heart failure, kidney or liver problems, coma and death. For rat poison (warfarin), depression and anorexia occur in all species even before bleeding occurs.

  Always at first hint of poisoning, open many capsules of activated charcoal, and put them in milk or, better yet, chicken soup made with salt and a little sugar.  Get the dog to drink this. It should only taste as salty as tears, no more.  The sugar is essential to help the salt get absorbed, which is why sports drinks like Gatorade have both salt and sugar in them. 

  If you can determine the poison he ate then you can give the antidote.  Usually they will have eaten an organophosphorous or carbamate pesticide  in which case you give them atropine intravenously (IV).  If you see bleeding gums, or blood coming from other places, then the dog may have eaten warfarin type poisons (rat poison) in which case you give them Vitamin K1  intravenously (IV) if they are unconscious or oral if they are conscious (mix with salt/sugar chicken soup).  

  By giving IV atropine you will be covering most bases for the likely poisons a dog may have eaten.  _“__Atropinization is adequate when the pupils are dilated, salivation ceases, and the animal appears more alert”. (Merck Vet Manual)_

But if you don't have access to Atropine, then you may very well still save the dog's life with Activated Charcoal alone and fluids, preferably chicken soup with salt and sugar.

  If you don’t have IV fluids to administer then it is very important that you make the chicken soup, and add a bit of sugar and some salt.  (Or use milk, sugar and salt if no chicken soup available).  The sugar is absolutely necessary in order that the salt can be absorbed once it is eaten/drunk. If you don’t have sugar, then white rice gruel—mashed—will serve as a carbohydrate that readily turns into sugar once eaten.

  Remember that the first thing the ambulance driver does for most accident victims is put a saline IV in.  But since you aren’t doing it IV (unless you’ve taken dog to a vet), then you MUST add sugar to the lightly salted water (chicken soup), otherwise your Oral Rehydration Therapy (ORT) will fail. The salty chicken soup should be no more salty than tears or sweat---LIGHTLY salted (with sugar added!)  Let the dog drink as much as he wants.  Keep adding the charcoal to the salt/sugar chicken soup.  The correct dose for activated charcoal for humans or dogs is 1 g/kg, that is 1 gram of activated charcoal for each kilogram body weight.  So if the dog is 10 kg you would give 10 grams of activated charcoal every 4 hours or so.  The capsules are usually 500 mg (half a gram each, or two makes a gram) so to give 10 grams for a 10 kg dog you would give 20 capsules every four hours for 2 or 3 times.

*Vitamin K1 is rarely needed as Thais don't use rat poison--it takes too long, days of eating little bits of it, to take effect. Instead, Thais usually use a pesticide whose antidote is atropine (just like in a detox kit--"Mark 1 Kit"--issued to soldiers): atropine and pralidoxime--antidotes for sarin gas attack).  

After you’ve given the charcoal and the IV atropine** then give them some or all of the following to counteract the toxicity to the liver:* 

*NAC** (n-acetyl cysteine**, an amino acid which replenishes glutathione**, extremely important!, available in pharmacies, groceries, health food stores--NAC is also THE antidote to acetominaphen/paracetamol/'Tylenol' poisoning. , Silymarin*(the active ingredient in the herb 'milk thistle'—or you can just give the milk thistle)*, Carnitine* (another amino acid)*,* and* Vitamins K, E, A.  And give more fluids, chicken soup** with salt/sugar as outlined above.*

*One poisoning incident that bears telling is 50 or so dogs ate a bad batch of dried dog food at Samui Dog Rescue in Koh Samui, Thailand and they all fell ill, and most died.  The food was grain based and had aflatoxin, a toxin produced by a mold, on it.  If you suspect this kind of poisoning then the antidote is always activated charcoal** and, specifically for aflatoxin:  NAC**, carnitine, Silymarin (milk thistle), Vitamin A, E, K and salt/sugar/chicken soup** rehydration.

* *If you’re not sure of the poison you can start with a little atropine IV and observe. If you know for sure it is the very commonly used carbamate or organophosphate (Organophosphorus) pesticides then definitely give atropine. * 

  But in all cases, give the activated charcoal as soon as possible if the dog is fully conscious, and put activated charcoal in chicken soup made with a little salt and sugar if you have it.  Don't delay giving the activated charcoal.  Give it, THEN drive to the vet if there is one available.

(In countries where antifreeze is common, cats and dogs are known to drink it especially in the summer when they may not have access to water, they find it in a puddle in a driveway.  Ethylene glycol.  Antidote: ethanol (alcohol).  So take them to the vet if one is nearby or, if not, get the animal drunk for a day or two).

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## tango

^ Good Advice. But it's no good if you can not immediately locate the charcoal tablets and the 3% Hydrogen Peroxide. These are inexpensive. Keep a couple of these antidote kits handy where the dogs normally hang out, and another near your fridge (your beer supply).

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## kmart

I've always kept some charcoal handy in case my dog gets poisoned. -Mainly as I'd like to capture her death throes with a sketch using large expressive tonal studies with this versatile grainy artistic medium.

And for the barbecue afterwards.

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## alitongkat

> If you’re not sure of the poison you can start with a little atropine IV and observe. If you know for sure it is the very commonly used carbamate or organophosphate (Organophosphorus) pesticides then definitely give atropine.


who has atropine and who can administer it intravenous to the dog ?

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## CNF55

> Originally Posted by johnwayne
> 
> If youre not sure of the poison you can start with a little atropine IV and observe. If you know for sure it is the very commonly used carbamate or organophosphate (Organophosphorus) pesticides then definitely give atropine.
> 
> 
> who has atropine and who can administer it intravenous to the dog ?


In most cases Atropine is injected intramuscularly - but you are right - who has it?

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## alitongkat

the "atropine IV" from the article is not atropine intravenous ?

when the dog is poisoned make it to the vet, on the way push him down charcoal... 
possibly, thats all one can do...

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## david44

Maybe it was the IDF in a false wag attack

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## alitongkat

israeli dog forces

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## baldrick

> Unfortunately, there is no way to protect your dogs from being poisoned.


train them from puppies only to eat from their bowls

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> Unfortunately, there is no way to protect your dogs from being poisoned.
> 
> 
> train them from puppies only to eat from their bowls


Excellent advice.

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## GR3

> I've always kept some charcoal handy in case my dog gets poisoned. -Mainly as I'd like to capture her death throes with a sketch using large expressive tonal studies with this versatile grainy artistic medium.
> 
> And for the barbecue afterwards.


WOW what a devient mind you have.......... I like it. :smiley laughing:

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## porkchopboy

There should have been a police investigation just as there would be back home in your country for such a serious murder.

Did you consider that a snake (Cobra) or something could have come in there and bit both of them?

Very sad anyway Im a dog lover I'd like to get my hands on the person that poisoned them if thats what happened.

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## rickschoppers

Thanks Porkchop. I could not really tell you what exactly happened since I am in the States and my wife discovered both of the dogs dead in the drive in Thailand. From what she told me they both had blood around their mouths and that tells me they were bleeding internally which is a symptom of warfarin(rat poison). They were behind a block wall and the steel gate was locked. Most poisonous snakes in Thailand have neuro-toxins for venom and the symptoms would have been different.

I will never really get over it and now am a little bitter about it all.

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## DrAndy

the thing is, Rick, some people get really angry about dogs barking and it can get to the point of them deciding to poison them, if the owner does not control the noise

barking dogs are a serious nuisance and the owner is responsible

in your case, you have said that your dogs did not bark incessantly, so maybe the theory that they may have been in the way of a planned robbery is correct

Our local pub had a seriously big Great Dane; some customer fed it drugs and the pub was robbed that night; the dog was just sedated though so no real harm done

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## david44

> the thing is, Rick, some people get really angry about dogs barking and it can get to the point of them deciding to poison them, if the owner does not control the noise
> 
> barking dogs are a serious nuisance and the owner is responsible
> 
> in your case, you have said that your dogs did not bark incessantly, so maybe the theory that they may have been in the way of a planned robbery is correct
> 
> Our local pub had a seriously big Great Dane; some customer fed it drugs and the pub was robbed that night; the dog was just sedated though so no real harm done


In interim you are hortily adviced to thoroughly esCHEW Danish open sandwiches

Our people are sending a note to your owner when we learn to spell :tieme:

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## alitongkat

she could have taken pics of the dogs...

why should someone do this, when you are away ?

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## alitongkat

rat poison takes long to take effect and possibly, they would have vomitted or so... they must have entirely quietly died, while your wife was meters away... and very quickly

all two at the same time, no barkings, not trying to seek the safety of their resting place ?
it must have been an IMMIDIATELY effective poison, as otherwise you can tell, when the dog has eaten something really bad - because they then wont touch their food anymore for days...
its accompanied by a clear change in behaviour... as humans, they get quiet, slow, tired...
for the owner, impossible not to spot this...

both just dumped, at the same time, in the drive way with blood around the mouth, without beep, nobody hearing/seeing anything ?

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## rickschoppers

^
Yup, strange isn't it? The pit bull was a pretty big boy, so he must have been given a pretty big dose. I do not know of any poisonous snakes in Thailand that cause that type of death.

It will remain a mystery and with having the neighbor across the street having the same thing happen. She has like 7 dogs with no fence and a few like to nip at passers by. If they were after her dogs, I am trying to figure out how the poison got from her house to ours.

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## rickschoppers

> the thing is, Rick, some people get really angry about dogs barking and it can get to the point of them deciding to poison them, if the owner does not control the noise
> 
> barking dogs are a serious nuisance and the owner is responsible
> 
> in your case, you have said that your dogs did not bark incessantly, so maybe the theory that they may have been in the way of a planned robbery is correct
> 
> Our local pub had a seriously big Great Dane; some customer fed it drugs and the pub was robbed that night; the dog was just sedated though so no real harm done


Andy we are lucky not to have any neighbors on the right side of the house since it is a flower field. That leaves neighbors to the left and across the street who also had two dogs poisoned the same night. There is some jealousy nearby since there are two Toyotas in our drive and the new house build is just up the street. My wife feels this jealousy and I am now wondering if it is better to move somewhere else.

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## DrAndy

I don't think jealousy is the reason; if your neighbour across the road had her dogs poisoned, then maybe whoever it was just lumped your dogs and her dogs together as the nuisance to be solved?

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## rickschoppers

^
Could be. My wife is already looking for Thai dogs to replace the ones we lost. I would bet she will have a couple by the time I head back in November.

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## ENT

Use a 12V electric fence system around the property and on your gate (switch off by remote when entering) to zap intruders, and train your dogs as pups to only eat where and when you or your missus feeds them.

Set up cctv and automatic light sensors/audio alarm too. Crims hate lights and too much attention.

I reckon a potential thief did your dogs in.

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## rickschoppers

^
Some good ideas. I like the electric fence, CCTV and lights. I have had motion sensor lights before, but they would get triggered by the dogs, so it would be a constant light situation that would increase the electric bill, but watts are cheap in Thailand. 

Feeding the dog on command might be tough until I am there all the time. I did train the pit bulls with regard to obedience, but my wife and her family did not continue the reinforcement that was needed and they fell back into bad habits. 

Home invasions happens everywhere and I guess I have to have the same mentality about it now as if I were in a city ghetto.

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## ENT

Position the light sensors to pick up movement along the walls/perimeter at about 6ft height, rather than from a height aimed downwards, should work. 

Yes, it's tough getting Thai's to stop coddling kids and pets to the point of indolence, but unless the dogs are trained to avoid being conned by tit-bits, they'll always be vulnerable to poison.

I lost two dogs that way, one in India, the other in NZ. Never again.

Good luck with that.

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## rickschoppers

^
Thanks ENT, all good advice and sorry to hear about your dogs as well.

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## Khonwan

The suddenness of the deaths doesnt indicate rat poisoning. The bleeding from the mouth doesnt indicate insecticide poisoning (this results in foaming at the mouth). There are many snakes here that could easily kill an elephant never-mind a dog. Might have been a viper: Bites by vipers and some Australian elapids can cause changes in the victim's hematologic system causing bleeding. this bleeding can be localized or diffuse. Internal organs can be involved. A victim may bleed from the bite site or bleed spontaneously from the mouth or old wounds. Unchecked bleeding can cause shock or even death. (Snakebite Causes, Symptoms, Treatment - Snakebite Symptoms - eMedicineHealth). Could well have been a Siam Russell Viper.

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## rickschoppers

^
........and the two dogs that died across the street?

----------


## Little Chuchok

> The suddenness of the deaths doesnt indicate rat poisoning. The bleeding from the mouth doesnt indicate insecticide poisoning (this results in foaming at the mouth). There are many snakes here that could easily kill an elephant never-mind a dog. Might have been a viper: Bites by vipers and some Australian elapids can cause changes in the victim's hematologic system causing bleeding. this bleeding can be localized or diffuse. Internal organs can be involved. A victim may bleed from the bite site or bleed spontaneously from the mouth or old wounds. Unchecked bleeding can cause shock or even death. (Snakebite Causes, Symptoms, Treatment - Snakebite Symptoms - eMedicineHealth). Could well have been a Siam Russell Viper.


It was a cowardly poisoning.Can't you understand that? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Khonwan

> ^
> ........and the two dogs that died across the street?


 Coincidences sometimes happen. Since those other dogs also died very close, the snake could easily have gone to their property too  why not? Envenomation from a Siam Russell Viper is extremely powerful and deadly  it is likely to have enough venom to kill several dogs. Adult snakes dont have to release all their venom at one bite  they can control the amount of venom delivered, or even choose to bite without envenoming. Juveniles can actually be more dangerous since they havent learned this skill yet. Ive never seen bleeding in the rats Ive poisoned (proprietary rat poison) and Ive never seen bleeding in dogs poisoned with insecticide. Note also that dogs are often drawn by the presence of a snake, and if one interacts with it, the other is bound to join in.

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## November Rain

> I’ve never seen bleeding in the rats I’ve poisoned


I've seen bleeding in dogs from rat poison. Mouth & nose usually and sometimes anus. Having said that, I wouldn't know what killed your dogs, Rick  :Sad:

----------


## DrAndy

yes, Warfarin causes bleeding from all orifices

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## rickschoppers

An overdose of Warfarin will kill an adult by having them "bleed out." That is exactly how rat poison works. The rats bleed to death and coagulation is halted since a clot can not be formed. Very primitive, but effective.

You may be right about the snake theory, but it would have to be a pretty big coincidence. Possible, but not probable.

----------


## ataloss

If nearby there's a small Ma & Pa shop with outside tables to encourage the locals to mingle and drink, encourage a Thai friend to spend time there occasionally over a couple of months. He eventually casually notes how great it was that those' farangs' got their payback. Eventually someone will spill the beans on who and why.
Been there, it worked for me, after nearly 6 months of occasional visits; though your mileage may differ.

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## rickschoppers

The truth may come out eventually. It is a small village.

----------


## klong toey

Been keeping up with this thread sad news about your dogs,as for burglars just had a call from Bangkok our condo was burgled last night.Odd thing is they only stole small stuff a few amulets pictures of monks,some paper work with bank details on and Gert old passport.Left television other large items so must have been on a motorbike or on foot.We are both in Blighty at the moment neighbor noticed door had been forced been in the same condo for 10 years never had problems before.Hope you stay burglar free think we were lucky at least no one was in when they came knocking.

----------


## rickschoppers

^
Klong, sorry to hear that. I guess your only defense would be CCTV, but then the BIB would actually have to do something with the tapes.

----------


## rickschoppers

Well, we are trying it again. We bought two male Golden Retrievers after they were old enough to take home. Here are some pics when they were young.







Here they are at 5 months. They both have different personalities and have turned into good watch dogs. They do not have the menacing look of a pit bull and I am hoping the Thais accept them.

My hope is to possibly breed them once I get back in a few months. I will need to find a 2 year old female or two, but that all remains to be seen. My wife loves them both, so I am hoping nothing happens to them.

----------


## KEVIN2008

I like dogs  but must confess the all night barking can be overpowering at time and this can go on for hours  ( noise pollution ).....seems  both Thai and Farang, just leave their dogs to roam around unchecked....

----------


## rickschoppers

Mine are chained up at night and only bark if someone gets too close to the house. Very few other dogs in the immediate area of the new house, but I can't say the same for my wife's parents old house.

----------


## Ronin

Well, sorry to hear that Rick, I can't stand people who ill-treat animals, let alone poison them.  However, it is not just in Thailand this happens, it has happened in London albeit not on the scale where you live.  There may not have been any motive just some spiteful arseholes hell-bent on upsetting/annoying somebody who is not 'one of their own', jealousy of course.

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## nevets

We live in the sticks out here if your dog gets out and chases chickens it will be shot or poisend , we have had 4 dogs killed.

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## bsnub

^ Then you should have the balls to cave the subhumans skulls in.

----------


## thaimeme

> Well, we are trying it again. We bought two male Golden Retrievers after they were old enough to take home. Here are some pics when they were young.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here they are at 5 months. They both have different personalities and have turned into good watch dogs. They do not have the menacing look of a pit bull and I am hoping the Thais accept them.
> ...


Nice choice, Rick.
Golden Retrievers make for great companions as they retain easy dispositions - great with children!  :Smile:

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## thailazer

We did it again as well.   My wife cried her eyes out as she carried this puppy home six months ago, saying she still missed Stormy who was poisoned.    Now, she loves the new dog.     50 pounds at six months and still growing.



I think the end story on Stormy's poisoning is that it was accidental  by ignorance.   I ran into a farmer up in the hills and he was dropping these pellets on his fence line.    Rat poison.     Apparently it tastes just as good to a dog and if there is pile of it, or if the dog follows the scent trail, it gets enough to die a very painful death.   If I knew who did it in our area I am not sure what I would do as I am still quite kinked about not having Stormy around.

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## rickschoppers

^
Looks like a Black Labradore (mix?). Also a good dog around people and children. I have had three labs, one black and two yellow and they were all high energy dogs.

I have lost more dogs while being in Thailand than my entire lifetime in the west, which is not a good testament to dog ownership. Between being hit by cars, poisonings and old age, it seems the dogs in Thailand have less of a chance at survival than the western world.

I have always been a dog person and it still bothers me when I see one being abused or hit and have taught my son and my wife that this is not the way to treat any animal. I just wish the rest of the population thought the same way.

Good luck with your new family member thailazer.

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## rickschoppers

Thanks Thaimeme. Yes, goldens are very easy going around children which was one of the main reasons I chose them. My son needs to learn the proper way to treat dogs in Thailand and not be yelling or bashing them all the time.

My ex-SIL had a golden and my oldest boy stuck his finger in her eye and she did not flinch. He was only 12 months at the time and he soon learned that was not what to do. Now he is a dog person like me as well as my middle son who has a chocolate lab.

My only concern is with hip issues, but both the mother and father of the pups were fine and the breeder knew what she was doing.

----------


## thailazer

> ^
> Looks like a Black Labradore (mix?). Also a good dog around people and children. I have had three labs, one black and two yellow and they were all high energy dogs.
> 
> I have lost more dogs while being in Thailand than my entire lifetime in the west, which is not a good testament to dog ownership. Between being hit by cars, poisonings and old age, it seems the dogs in Thailand have less of a chance at survival than the western world.
> 
> I have always been a dog person and it still bothers me when I see one being abused or hit and have taught my son and my wife that this is not the way to treat any animal. I just wish the rest of the population thought the same way.
> 
> Good luck with your new family member thailazer.


Yes, it is a Lab Newfoundland mix.   Big and lunky, and not a mean bone in her body.  Let's kids climb all over her.

Goldens make great dogs too.   And I know what you mean about dogs in Thailand.

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## rickschoppers

Enjoy your dog and I am sure she will make a great companion.

----------


## rickschoppers

Now that I have some of your attention, does anyone know where I could find quality female golden retrievers in the Udon area? Both my wife and I are dog lovers and it is going to be one of the things that keeps me busy in the village.

----------


## Gravesend Dave

> Now that I have some of your attention, does anyone know where I could find quality female golden retrievers in the Udon area? Both my wife and I are dog lovers and it is going to be one of the things that keeps me busy in the village.


Buying one from a seller in the night market is going to be no more of a gamble than buying one from a proclaimed breeder expert in Thailand.

Dogs are traded all over the country as a commodity money being key as always.

If Retrievers are the breed of choice for you then I expect you know what to look for in a puppy.

Ideally one would not keep a long coated dog such as a Retriever in the tropics,its like you sitting in the sun with a fur coat on.

If you are lucky enough to buy a pure bred animal it will have a dense inner coat for warmth due to where it originated from,with a an outer coat to repel water.

This breed would be comfortable chewing a bone on a frosty lawn but hey they do have a great temperament.

----------


## rickschoppers

Dave, I have looked at the night market and even purchased a golden retriever about 4 years ago which died at 2 months so my confidence in that approach is minimal. I know it was a luck of the draw, but we got the last two dogs from a reputable breeder and she really knew what she was doing.

Our dogs get showers twice daily and just about any dog will suffer from the heat as long as they have hair. I was always against owning something like a Siberian Husky in hot weather and feel the goldens are a better choice, even though they do have longer hair. It is not as dense as a husky, but again any dog will be warm in Thailand. We also have a pond on our property and they can go for a swim any time they want. I did look for a child's wading pool, but have not found one yet. I have owned labs in places like Phoenix and Las Vegas and they do like the water like goldens.

You do have a point, but I think if a dog is given a good place to live, that is key. One of my worries with the golden breed is their hips. The parents of our dogs never had a problem and, to my knowledge, the breeder we used has never had that issue.

If I can find another good breeder to buy a couple of females from, we should be fine. I do not want to breed  dogs that are not known for their being good around both people and children. I have gone that route with the Pit Bulls and people just don't warm up to them the same way as Golden Retrievers. 

Thanks again for your input.

----------


## thailazer

Regarding poisons, we had the local farmers stop by again to tell us they are putting down snail poison in the rice field in front of us and that makes the water unsafe to drink.   (They all liked our old dog Stormy and knew he died of poisoning.)    Just passing this along to not let your dogs drink out of rice fields or other water sources near farms.     We keep the new dog restrained at all times but it's nice they come by to tell us what is going on.   Then this morning, the wife tells me she saw a toad of some kind around the house that is poisonous to dogs.   Arggghhhh

----------


## rickschoppers

Yes, that was considerate of the farmers. We lost two dogs on the same day and I am still not convinced it was malicious in nature. 

We now keep our dogs chained when nobody is with them and they are watched at all times when they are off the chain. At our new house, we have a large patio out back where they stay and nobody is able to get too close without them sounding the alarm. At the other house, where we lost the dogs, we had a block wall and steel gate, but people could see the dogs and none of them liked anyone opening the gate unless we were there. 

Interestingly, all the Thais that see the goldens really like the dogs. They are friendly to everyone and wont bark at others when we are with them. My plan is to keep all the dogs well away from the road and house entrance.

----------


## pseudolus

Dear Rick

Please do not breed dogs in Thailand. If you loves dogs, perhaps spend your time encouraging people to adopt homeless dogs and to take better care of the dogs they already have. For each dog you add to the country, there is one more stray along the  line that will get dumped and not homed. For each beautiful Golden you add to Thailand, you create 100 + daft locals who think they want ones of those cute puppies, that then end up living chained up, outside, unwashed, underfed, or more usually thrown away when it becomes a dog rather than a puppy (not your puppy, as I dare say you would be "very choosy" about who gets one, but others from the shops). Adding another dog, or a litter, into Thailand pushes more dogs onto the street that in turn annoys (usually chinese) people who then do shitty things like poisoning them. 

Also - a female dog that has had puppies life expectancy decreases massively - so if you love your dogs, breeding them sees them dying quicker. 

Adopt - don't shop, and certainly do not add to the problem. 

Anything else is futile and adding to Thailands horrendous dog problem. 

Kind regards

Pseudolus.

----------


## xanax

Agree with Pseudolus Thailand does indeed have an horrendous dog problem and nobody is doing anything about it. On our small estate there must be at least 20 strays, outside on the road for a mile dozens more of the diseased unwanted causing a traffic, noise and health problem. As time goes on and more vicious breeds get into the stray pool it will be far more serious. Thais seem to think taking care of a dog is leaving it outside all day in the yard on it's own while they are all out at work/School all day. Then they wonder why it get's poisoned- cos it's been barking all day and it was either kill it or move. Better of course than a quiet word, can't have people losing face over a dog!

----------


## piwanoi

> Dear Rick
> 
> Please do not breed dogs in Thailand. If you loves dogs, perhaps spend your time encouraging people to adopt homeless dogs and to take better care of the dogs they already have. For each dog you add to the country, there is one more stray along the  line that will get dumped and not homed. For each beautiful Golden you add to Thailand, you create 100 + daft locals who think they want ones of those cute puppies, that then end up living chained up, outside, unwashed, underfed, or more usually thrown away when it becomes a dog rather than a puppy (not your puppy, as I dare say you would be "very choosy" about who gets one, but others from the shops). Adding another dog, or a litter, into Thailand pushes more dogs onto the street that in turn annoys (usually chinese) people who then do shitty things like poisoning them. 
> 
> Also - a female dog that has had puppies life expectancy decreases massively - so if you love your dogs, breeding them sees them dying quicker. 
> 
> Adopt - don't shop, and certainly do not add to the problem. 
> 
> Anything else is futile and adding to Thailands horrendous dog problem. 
> ...


  Yeah quite right Psuedo ,I am currently feeding 6 Soi Dogs as there owner left for Bangers and left them to fend for themselves ,they are only small type's about as big as a Corgi ,  I injected the two bitches with an overdose of methyl testosterone ( male hormone) 3 times in two week intervals, I reckon that they will never come on heat again but if they do I have a week or so to inject them again , I cook enough for 5 days and deep freeze it ,just cheap broken rice and chicken frames ,the whole shabang costs me 200 baht a week ,you would not believe the pleasure I get from seeing them rush up the soi behind my house to meet me every morning barking their bollocks off and wagging their tails ,Jan  my wife cannot quite understand why I do it , I just say well ya know how these poor villagers here give food and money to these saffron robed parasites in our local temple and think it gives them luck ,I think the same only I do not give the dogs any money , I don't really believe all that crap, but I think its just some thing she can get her head around  :Smile: .

----------


## pseudolus

> Originally Posted by pseudolus
> 
> 
> Dear Rick
> 
> Please do not breed dogs in Thailand. If you loves dogs, perhaps spend your time encouraging people to adopt homeless dogs and to take better care of the dogs they already have. For each dog you add to the country, there is one more stray along the  line that will get dumped and not homed. For each beautiful Golden you add to Thailand, you create 100 + daft locals who think they want ones of those cute puppies, that then end up living chained up, outside, unwashed, underfed, or more usually thrown away when it becomes a dog rather than a puppy (not your puppy, as I dare say you would be "very choosy" about who gets one, but others from the shops). Adding another dog, or a litter, into Thailand pushes more dogs onto the street that in turn annoys (usually chinese) people who then do shitty things like poisoning them. 
> 
> Also - a female dog that has had puppies life expectancy decreases massively - so if you love your dogs, breeding them sees them dying quicker. 
> 
> ...


I'm up to about 20 dogs I am feeding (some times more, sometimes only a handful  - depends who turns up)- go the dried food root as we  simply do not have the time to cook that much rice. feed them twice a day, and take care of the medical needs as well. I weaned the missus off chucking cash at monks by telling her that the dogs are Buddha's creatures, so giving them food and keeping them in good care is even better than giving to monks. Now she bus 500 baht of the boiled chicken carcesses once a week on "chicken fridays" and there's about 40 of the buggers waiting when we get there on Fridays (they seem to know). 

It's a serious point though - adding any dog to Thailand is just bad. No need for it and encourages the locals to buy cute puppies they simply do not have the ability or discipline to look after.

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## piwanoi

Nice to read your post Psuedo, :Smile:  and I forgot to add that the Village headmans Son who speaks passable English  who has been put through a decent education by his old man , has learned from god knows were that I injected these two soi dogs to stop them coming into season ,has now implemented a scheme were upon all those with with Bitch's (female dogs) in our little village enclave  can have theirs injected free of charge ,would,nt be a great idea for some thing like this to catch on and be done on a national scale, as no doubt you, as well as all who live here full time are acutely aware of this huge problem of virtually millions of unwanted dogs on Thailands streets .

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## xanax

I used to feed them at the old place but came to see without sterilisation it just perpetuates the problem.

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## thailazer

Nothing exemplifies the "Mai Pen Rai" attitude better than how the dog situation in this country is considered.

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## piwanoi

> Nothing exemplifies the "Mai Pen Rai" attitude better than how the dog situation in this country is considered.


  Never a truer word written, but many Thai's do care for their dogs ,but sadly are in a small proportion ,meanwhile guys like Psuedo and myself and no doubt quite a few more ex pats will do their little bit to alleviate the misery  :Smile:

----------


## pseudolus

> Originally Posted by thailazer
> 
> 
> Nothing exemplifies the "Mai Pen Rai" attitude better than how the dog situation in this country is considered.
> 
> 
>   Never a truer word written, but many Thai's do care for their dogs ,but sadly are in a small proportion ,meanwhile guys like Psuedo and myself and no doubt quite a few more ex pats will do their little bit to alleviate the misery


INdeed. However, this will never do. I'm off to start a thread where we can have a dust up again.  :smiley laughing:

----------


## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by thailazer
> ...


 Psuedo, credit given were credit is due ,I do not see why we have to be a loggerheads ALL the time ,just enjoy the ambiance of the situation while it lasts  :Smile:

----------


## pseudolus

> Originally Posted by pseudolus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by piwanoi
> ...


Fair doos indeed. Out of interest where do you get the testosterone from? From a vet or a supplier? I want to get hold of a supplier for this and other things such as vaccinations.

----------


## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pseudolus
> ...


 the local Vet in Town sells it ,and hypodermics too ,it costs 50 baht for a little bottle of about 150 Mg's the trade name is "Depo M" It says on the bottle inter muscle ,but the Vet says it works just as well under the skin ,I shoot a whole bottle in ,3 times in two week intervals which appears to stop them from forever coming in season again , I kept and raced Greyhounds back home for over 40 years and won many big trophy races so I have quite a bit of knowledge on how to take care of Dogs ,if you go to the vets just say Maa, Mi pen men and make an injecting motion with one hand the first time you go ,they soon get the message, there is also a cure for Mange available  which you inject the same way , it will grow hair on a snooker ball ,or better still take your good lady with you who will no doubt explain it a bit better without the sign lingo , a word of advice if you do intend to inject any ,make sure you cover them with an old blanket and get some one strong to hold them ,most do not feel a thing if you pull some loose skin up ,but some will really struggle ,and make sure you do not go straight through the skin and come out on the other side of the folded skin , its piss easy for me as I have been doing it for donkeys years but to a newcomer it can often be quite an harrowing experience  :Smile:

----------


## rickschoppers

> Now that I have some of your attention, does anyone know where I could find quality female golden retrievers in the Udon area? Both my wife and I are dog lovers and it is going to be one of the things that keeps me busy in the village.


Didn't know this post would start such a shitstorm. I have read all the posts and have to say my decision to breed dogs was a thought and not a sure thing. Everyone's comments have been valid, so it looks like I will be trying to find something else to do in the village. 

I did just purchase a new camera, so maybe I will just take up photography again. Is there anyone out there that objects to this hobby?

----------


## piwanoi

Rick I would hardly think that what I have written is a shitstorm ,  for me it's just some thing which I have undertaken,  I personally have no objections whatsoever , and you are quite free to do whatever you feel like and the very best of luck in doing so, life would be very boring if we all thought the same ,don't you agree? :Smile:

----------


## rickschoppers

^
Shotstorm is a generic term and does not always mean something large.

Yes, I agree about life being boring if we all thought the same but I am still rethinking the breeding decision.

----------


## pseudolus

> ^
> Shotstorm is a generic term and does not always mean something large.
> 
> Yes, I agree about life being boring if we all thought the same but I am still rethinking the breeding decision.


One of the benefits of a farang taking it upon themselves to treat soi dogs well, feed them, give them medicine etc is that firstly, the nicer locals in the area will have respect for you, and will be ever more willing to help you when you need it. Secondly, if you have the time especially, the more curious locals will wonder why / what you are doing and join in. From the time I started caring for the pack I adopted when no one was feeding them, to now, there have been 4 different sets of locals now stopping off feeding them sporadically just through stopping, talking with me and the missus, and hearing her say the line I told her to say  "These are gods creatures and we think it is the biggest merit we can make to care for them, feed them, and since we have, we have had a lot of luck". The impact is usually quite amazing when she blurts that out. Gradually these lots are being educated about animal care by us, which is a good thing, and indeed, one set with a young child took 2 puppies with them that return to see their old family every now and then and are amazingly well trained already (nice to see them again of course). 

Give it a go - take the camera as well.

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## rickschoppers

I have always been a sucker for dogs that have been mistreated or not fed. One of the major reasons for not adopting every local soi dog in our neighborhood is that the wife worries about diseases when it come to our young son. Thais seem to be bothered about mangy dogs that may, or may not, have a disease that can be transmitted. The government comes around every year to vaccinate all the dogs for rabies, but I can not confirm the vaccine works 100% of the time.

As for my two Golden Retrievers, they are well fed and well taken care of. We keep them away from all neighborhood dogs and they are very happy with their environment. Too bad we can not teach the Thais to be more humane, but they seem to lean toward hitting and abusing animals compared to our own western norms.

I applaud anyone who takes the time and makes the effort to help any animal that is, or has been mistreated.

----------


## Gravesend Dave

I'm a Dog person but would not encourage strays.

Soi dogs strays in Thailand are common everywhere the majority suffering.

Re home a dog when possible but the kindest thing for most of these dogs would be euthanasia.They are abandoned domestic animals which means for most a life of scavenging disease and painful deaths.

----------


## rickschoppers

I did not discuss whether taking care of strays is wise. I only applauded those who have the nerve to do it.

----------


## Gravesend Dave

> I did not discuss whether taking care of strays is wise. I only applauded those who have the nerve to do it.


Just my view mate not directed at anyone

I do understand others compassion but think in the long term you have to be cruel to be kind.

----------


## pseudolus

> Re home a dog when possible but the kindest thing for most of these dogs would be euthanasia.They are abandoned domestic animals which means for most a life of scavenging disease and painful deaths.


Well no, actually. The kindest thing is to take care of them in situ, make sure they are not suffering but also not breeding as well. 

"I love dogs, kill em all". 

Nice.

----------


## Gravesend Dave

> Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave
> 
> Re home a dog when possible but the kindest thing for most of these dogs would be euthanasia.They are abandoned domestic animals which means for most a life of scavenging disease and painful deaths.
> 
> 
> Well no, actually. The kindest thing is to take care of them in situ, make sure they are not suffering but also not breeding as well. 
> 
> "I love dogs, kill em all". 
> 
> Nice.


You obviously mean well Pseudo but in Thailand fighting a loosing battle

The average Thai has not compassion for animals

Worst thing I witnessed was a dog with its bowl hanging out laying on the side of the road waiting to die.

Also sicking was when a bloke in the village shot a dog that killed two of his chickens,he left it panting fatally wounded.

I asked him why he did not shoot it again to kill it,answer was no problem it will die soon anyway.

That,s the mentality I have seen there and think its not going to change any time soon.

----------


## cyrille

Fair points, but I think pseud is getting at how ridiculous it is in this situation to kid yourself that killing an animal is 'kind'.

Don't read that often with humans, do we? 'Difficult housing Mr. Blenkinsop. Let's do him a favour and kill him'.

----------


## bsnub

My grandfather was very blunt with a neighbor when I was a kid. 

I am sure this will be an unpopular comment but what the hell. The neighbor said that if the dog showed up in his yard again that he would shoot it. My granddad told him that if he shot his dog he would shoot him. That was the last time that neighbor ever said a word to my granddad. He had a tommy gun in his closet. My granpops ran rackets up and down the west coast. He was no one to be trifled with.

----------


## pseudolus

> My grandfather was very blunt with a neighbor when I was a kid. 
> 
> I am sure this will be an unpopular comment but what the hell. The neighbor said that if the dog showed up in his yard again that he would shoot it. My granddad told him that if he shot his dog he would shoot him. That was the last time that neighbor ever said a word to my granddad. He had a tommy gun in his closet. My granpops ran rackets up and down the west coast. He was no one to be trifled with.


Quality comment  :Smile:

----------


## pseudolus

> Worst thing I witnessed was a dog with its bowl hanging out laying on the side of the road waiting to die.
> 
> Also sicking was when a bloke in the village shot a dog that killed two of his chickens,he left it panting fatally wounded


Says rather a lot about you, sunshine. Why didn't YOU do anything on those two occasions?

----------


## Gravesend Dave

> Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave
> 
> Worst thing I witnessed was a dog with its bowl hanging out laying on the side of the road waiting to die.
> 
> Also sicking was when a bloke in the village shot a dog that killed two of his chickens,he left it panting fatally wounded
> 
> 
> Says rather a lot about you, sunshine. Why didn't YOU do anything on those two occasions?


Simple answer I did not have a gun!

The dog with the bowl hanging out is one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen,it was not far from the Vehicle licence place in Pattaya.

There was nothing I could do but would of loved to put that animal out of its misery,don't bare thinking about the pain it was in.

The dog that was shot in the village and left bleed to death and suffer was shot with one of them Musket powder loading things.
The wife's Brother has one as an uncle who lived next door.

Believe me I did try to get someone to go back and finish the poor Bastard of!,the blank looks and its no problem replies is all I got.

I'm no soft cnut but I hate seeing suffering!!

----------


## thailazer

Back in my old home town, there is a different problem with dogs dying:  Uniformed policeman shooting them  through the window of locked vehicles.     That police department really needs to look at their hiring and training policies....
Idaho cop shoots, kills adorable black Lab named Arfee after mistaking him for aggressive pit bull - NY Daily News

----------


## Gravesend Dave

> Back in my old home town, there is a different problem with dogs dying:  Uniformed policeman shooting them  through the window of locked vehicles.     That police department really needs to look at their hiring and training policies....
> Idaho cop shoots, kills adorable black Lab named Arfee after mistaking him for aggressive pit bull - NY Daily News


The man must have very poor eye sight or just another trigger happy Yank cop.

----------


## thailazer

> Originally Posted by thailazer
> 
> 
> Back in my old home town, there is a different problem with dogs dying:  Uniformed policeman shooting them  through the window of locked vehicles.     That police department really needs to look at their hiring and training policies....
> Idaho cop shoots, kills adorable black Lab named Arfee after mistaking him for aggressive pit bull - NY Daily News
> 
> 
> The man must have very poor eye sight or just another trigger happy Yank cop.


I think it is the latter.   When did they start taking away your brain when they give you a badge?

----------


## pseudolus

> Simple answer I did not have a gun!


never heard of a vet then?

----------


## marcmarc

sorry to read of your loss, lets hope the person or persons involved rot in hell, try and get a replacement dog for the wife,

----------


## Gravesend Dave

> Originally Posted by Gravesend Dave
> 
> Simple answer I did not have a gun!
> 
> 
> never heard of a vet then?


Being Silly now Pseudo!

Our first pup was given by an uncle only to be stolen some months later, I was intending to get it checked by a vet.

Found one about 30k away from the village in Nong Khai for that reason only.

If someone would of handed me a gun or a appropriate injection I would of gladly ended those animals suffering.

There,s no way I would of put my hand in my pocket to put right the wrongs done by Thais!.

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## pseudolus

> 30k away from the village in Nong Khai


fair play. 30km?

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## rickschoppers

> sorry to read of your loss, lets hope the person or persons involved rot in hell, try and get a replacement dog for the wife,


Yes, I have already done that and pics of the the new Golden Retrievers can be seen earlier in this thread. My wife is happy again and enjoys taking care of our two new "boys."

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## xanax

> I did not discuss whether taking care of strays is wise. I only applauded those who have the nerve to do it.


Misplaced 'compassion' as it only creates yet more suffering and more of a problem. Unless such people are having the pests sterilised first then they should not be feeding them. Thailand has an enormous stray dog problem that nobody is doing anything about, feeding the buggers is not the answer and is just making the situation worse.

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## xanax

> . My wife is happy again and enjoys taking care of our two new "boys."


Are they baby substitutes? if not they are dogs, not 'boys'.

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## rickschoppers

^
Obviously, you are not a dog lover Xanax.

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## xanax

> ^
> Obviously, you are not a dog lover Xanax.


My wife says I am, but I think I am more realistic, people who feed strays are not dog lovers. They are just in love with the idea that they are doing some good, when they are just making a problem a lot worse. These meat eating 'animal lovers' kid themselves feeding diseased ridden pests is somehow 'making merit' it's not, it's just creating more misery and suffering.

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## rickschoppers

You are definitely entitled to your perspective, it just isn't mine. I do not go around feeding stray dogs. In fact, I shy away from all soi dogs since I do not know what disease they may have or transmit. 

I also hate to see hungry or suffering animals. Maybe I am too sentimental, but I do realize the problem in Thailand can not be fixed in my lifetime.

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## xanax

Too sentimental, especially if you are eating animals at the same time as feeling 'sorry' for their suffering. Thailand's stray dog problem could be fixed in months if anyone really cared.

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## Ronin

Well Rick, would you believe it?  A local barber not so long ago bought an Alsatian near me in the UK.  Grew into a lovely animal (mottled coat instead of the usual black and tan).  I hadn't seen it for a while and last night he told me somebody had poisoned it and killed it (as has happened elsewhere in London).  Seems to be a new 'craze', jealous people possibly?

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## lilthy

terrible...it could do only brain less people

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## rickschoppers

Xanax, I have not eaten dog lately, to my knowledge. I may have eaten it in Mexico at some point without me knowing it, but I am pretty sure I have never ordered any.

The correlation of eating other animals and having feelings about those that suffer is a very weak argument.

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## can123

> I also hate to see hungry or suffering animals. Maybe I am too sentimental, but I do realize the problem in Thailand can not be fixed in my lifetime.


Does this mean to say that you would be prepared to commit suicide if the soi dogs were to benefit from your demise ? Good on you, mate, that's what I call compassion for animals !

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## rickschoppers

^
Silly post. Of course I would commit suicide if it meant ending the suffering of all animals. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## wasabi

> Well Rick, would you believe it?  A local barber not so long ago bought an Alsatian near me in the UK.  Grew into a lovely animal (mottled coat instead of the usual black and tan).  I hadn't seen it for a while and last night he told me somebody had poisoned it and killed it (as has happened elsewhere in London).  Seems to be a new 'craze', jealous people possibly?


No, just a new type of invasive species, get used to it you sentimental dog lovers, some religions that now live in your London, do not see a Dog in the same light as you do.

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## can123

> ^
> Silly post. Of course I would commit suicide if it meant ending the suffering of all animals.


Pretty obvious that you are an American and speak a different language.

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## rickschoppers

^
That's explained on another thread.

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## can123

> ^
> That's explained on another thread.


Yes, we should never have allowed you to become independent. It's all our fault.

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## rickschoppers

I thought you were Welsh. My understanding is that we gained independence from the English. Same same?

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## can123

> I thought you were Welsh. My understanding is that we gained independence from the English. Same same?


Different. It was a Welsh guy who wrote your constitution.

Welsh American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We have a lot to answer for.

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## rickschoppers

Yes, you do..

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## sabang

Don't we all.

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## flyfisher davis

Rick...This just smells like a prelude to a worse situation...So sorry to hear about this. As others have stated, it may be a good idea to invest in even the least expensive alarm system. It could be the ounce of prevention that you need. I would also look at the people in your village to see how they react to you...It could be a clue to a future conviction...Maybe a long shot, but you never know. Conversation with the village head is in order for sure...Be well...

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## rickschoppers

Flyfisher, thanks for your concern. We have since moved into our new home where the two Golden Retrievers are. As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, the neighbor across the street also had a dog poisoned on the same night. This makes me believe it may have been kids. Where we were staying at the time, there were numerous dogs and several would try and nip and chase passers by on their motorbikes. This may have been done by one of those individuals. The sad thing is that our dogs were always locked inside our gate and never chased or nipped at people on motorbikes.

We now keep our Golden Retrievers chained up out back of the new house at night well away from the road. They will bark if someone comes on our land and they can see them. I have thought about getting a CCTV system for security reasons since this seems to be the best evidence to take to the police if something happens.

Poisoning dogs will continue in Thailand and there is nothing I can do to stop it. If I were ever to see someone attempting to hurt one of our dogs, I hate to say what might happen.

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