#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Construction in Thailand >  >  Filling land - when is it necessary?

## Smithson

Filling land is popular here, often complete necessary on paddy land, but I also notice it commonly used to raise blocks above road level. Thais like land that is square and level, slight slopes are made flat prior to building. Soil is expensive now, as is labour for retaining walls, which can fail. 

How necessary is filling if the block is at road level or a touch above? I see many things done out of habit when there are newer, cheaper, better alternatives and wonder if this is sometimes the case with filling land. Any thoughts?

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## david44

If it will be your residence ask neighbours of flood history, in many mountain areas deforestation ahs lead to flash flood.

Raising a 4/5 bed single level residence the typical 80-100cm with blocks and cheap filler was not my choice in an earthquake zone, geo maps are available though often only in Thai.

I went Japanese concrete raft and 9 1 metre cubes full of rebar under , An earthquake dstroyed a local temple , hardly a scratch here. This is not new or high tech, but beyond the experience of amateur" shed type builders.

The overall cost if building to Western Standard will be negligible its the hike in materials like Steel you need to look at .

If I was building again this year and had the cashflow I'd buy all steel and imported items today to mitigate fuel hikes and currency hedge, waht you save will cover a local truck filling a hole with earth they get for pennies of some other site/farm its still under 1600 a truck load here.

Unless you self build I d have a family member watch the quantities/pilfering, quality control which is probably an equally sound investment?

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## Smithson

> If it will be your residence ask neighbours of flood history, in many mountain areas deforestation ahs lead to flash flood.
> 
> Raising a 4/5 bed single level residence the typical 80-100cm with blocks and cheap filler was not my choice in an earthquake zone, geo maps are available though often only in Thai.
> 
> I went Japanese concrete raft and 9 1 metre cubes full of rebar under , An earthquake dstroyed a local temple , hardly a scratch here. This is not new or high tech, but beyond the experience of amateur" shed type builders.
> 
> The overall cost if building to Western Standard will be negligible its the hike in materials like Steel you need to look at .
> 
> If I was building again this year and had the cashflow I'd buy all steel and imported items today to mitigate fuel hikes and currency hedge, waht you save will cover a local truck filling a hole with earth they get for pennies of some other site/farm its still under 1600 a truck load here.
> ...


Thanks, that's helpful. The land will be Pattaya, soil there is sand, it's all the concrete that leads to floods. It's common for whole blocks to be concreted. Nonetheless in areas with a slight slope and no chance of floods it's common to see big filled in blocks with retaining walls.

I am thinking of going pre fab, just doing stumps or slab and then dropping something on top. I don't have family and run my own business, it's not possible to be on site daily. Even if I was I don't have the patience. Thai builders are jacks of all trades who can't read a plan. Builders can't accurately predict who will turn up on any particular day. Factories on the other hand are proper companies, employees clock on and have government registration, they may even be qualified.

I would be interested in you Japanese type slab and how it was made.

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## malmomike77

Most pre-fab is concrete and will be one big heatsink.

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## Switch

> Thanks, that's helpful. The land will be Pattaya, soil there is sand, it's all the concrete that leads to floods. It's common for whole blocks to be concreted. Nonetheless in areas with a slight slope and no chance of floods it's common to see big filled in blocks with retaining walls.
> 
> I am thinking of going pre fab, just doing stumps or slab and then dropping something on top. I don't have family and run my own business, it's not possible to be on site daily. Even if I was I don't have the patience. Thai builders are jacks of all trades who can't read a plan. Builders can't accurately predict who will turn up on any particular day. Factories on the other hand are proper companies, employees clock on and have government registration, they may even be qualified.
> 
> I would be interested in you Japanese type slab and how it was made.


Ahhh Pattaya …."… soon to be known as Bangkok Sur Mer

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## david44

Luckily my cousin who build shuge offices in Chicago advised free

Its a century old the technique and not disimmilar to teh cncrete hull yacht i built

Floating raft system - Wikipedia

Fr the sake of a couple of extra tons of cement and rebar I probably over engineered but sleep sound at night I'm way up near Golden Triangle where faults and tremors centred in Burma Lao are regular, in 30 year here I have neve  ventured east of Bangkok Airport nor desire.

One thing I do know having lived in Thonglorr big flashfloods are regular drainage is comprimised by stupidity, poor drainage , illegal building permits, not sure how dense your Moo  Ban have a good poke about ask neighbours and Taxi drivers if they recall floods at your location and how deep. 

I recall knee deep and boats in N Bangkok a few years back, when all furnishings ruined , folks killed by plugged in by fridges , plus the hard to erase  stink , wading through snake filled sewage is worth a bit of backfill imho . Its really only a glorified sandpit you need if no earthquale hazard .

Floating raft system - Wikipedia

Liquifaction , gloop factor can happen fast while you sleep and there is a lot of subsidence due to failure to allow adequate runoff spillways. You may wish to store rain water for garden , animals even as grey water for toilets or showers but I avoid any storage as attract wildlife and bacteria easily near our animals. Take a very close peek at new hi so homes as close as poss and see what their architect/builder  has done.

The local land offices have competent engineers who earn peanuts so we hired one on his day of for a survey which I think cost 500 baht plus a liquid lunch many moons ago but was money well spent.
I'm sure some locals can point you to someone , we used to have a lot of members but what wit the covid stds and pox they seem to have kicked 'the bucket"

My blueprints are in lao with a friend who is replicating my design, but my raft  was I think 13m 3m was 1.2 m thick and based above 9 filled concrte "PIERS" holes each 2m dep by 1.2 x 1.2 m in a nine Man's Morris .I

 wanted a very string centre where instead of exterior Hebel I used fired bricks as solid "smokefree chimney" to mount the  double pyramid, wind extraction vents and  roof and 5 tons of steel to anchor it all.

I think all the the metal cost 196k before labor which was peanuts years ago family and laborers were 150 a day triple now similarly skilled welders plumbers were 200-300 now nearer 800-1500 a day way up here as they all vanish to big Bangkok/Gulf  projects most of the time , but many multi-skilled  they do their know their biz.

If in any doubt I 'd sooner use Hebel/Q con/Superblock and not have 3 ensuite etc/solar etc if money tight

Tip I built roof slope at 16* and at 96 degrees off North so the hottest sun jus after midday bounce off the lagged /reflective metal good quality ceramic roof ad a S elevation strong enough for Solar.

All of those measure esp Hebel means I only use 2 aircon about 10 days a year , my Thai wife has fans on all the time but I only use them this time of year from noon to about dusk, we are 500m higher than you and a 1100km nearer the N Pole too.

Its cooler cleaner, quieter inside and the speed of use makes up for teh price diff




I visited the factory sent 3 builders o train and used 20x 20x 0 Blocks and retro poured teh columns which you the in and used lots of rebar as main room is 4.7m high, For a sigle level dwelling the regular blocks are ok .

Good luck pm if you have any non urgent Qs I'm touring vineyards until the vendange but will check from time to time.

Passive cooling, lighboxes, Louvers/ awnings, covered decks, terraces, planting trees are all easier to do with a clan slate than retro fit.

I would choose a headman by recommendation or reputation locally !! .He will hire all the others , You may do 2nd fix with others and get sparks , plumbers painters tilers lanscapers, grills gates and metalwork pools done  by other specialist if you have the time or just one price if you can trust and have a end date. Penalty clauses for sloppy or late finish are rare here , local gosspi and bonuses , employ "relaible, seldom late neighbours was my route on a small project 2 houses.

You will very lucky to complete a project with less than one tools dow for a Pitti when they all take Harry's advice and vanish for birth death marriage etc

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## Smithson

> Most pre-fab is concrete and will be one big heatsink.


Most that I've seen are timber and steel, but generally they have too many windows and are hot. Functional design is not popular here, the vast majority of houses are designed for appearances and need air con blasting to be liveable. To impress the neighbors ppl build concrete monstrosities and spend their days sitting under a tree.

David44, as you mentioned, prices and availability of workers has become a real issue. I'm a plumber by trade, my father is a builder, I couldn't cope with the attitude of Thai builders and would rather deal with a factory. I could afford a large house but can't see the point, it seems stressful and expensive, plus you have to clean it. I'm looking at two bedrooms and an office to be the only fully enclosed areas, with kitchen and living areas semi open. If any questions come up I will PM, thanks for the offer.

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## prawnograph

2012 we bought an orchard property at the end of its useful life 8km from Chanthaburi, reasonably flat at the base of the adjoining rubber tree plantation seen in the background.

Ms P works for a roading engineering company, very useful,  and we were able to get advice and planning for development of the area in terms of drainage and suitability for housing, involved bringing the area up to a level 0.5m above the high/mid point of the sealed road across the frontage. First had it brought to level using existing soil - grader and tractor all at minimum cost,   compacted,  then added a further approx 400 cu. m of clay, again compacted rather than what seems to be the usual 'leave it to settle over two rain seasons'.

Didn't go ahead with the planned house build, had an 'offer we can't refuse' in 2017 and accepted that, bought an existing house instead. While we're not in a flood-prone area the house is on a built-up section, and floor level 0.8m higher, safe enough till Noah floats past in the ark.

Now the former orchard has been subdivided with multiple houses, looks good. It was the right decision for us, as on the 'wrong/inland' side of Sukhumvit Rd.

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## Smithson

> 2012 we bought an orchard property at the end of its useful life 8km from Chanthaburi, reasonably flat at the base of the adjoining rubber tree plantation seen in the background.
> 
> Ms P works for a roading engineering company, very useful,  and we were able to get advice and planning for development of the area in terms of drainage and suitability for housing, involved bringing the area up to a level 0.5m above the high/mid point of the sealed road across the frontage. First had it brought to level using existing soil - grader and tractor all at minimum cost,   compacted,  then added a further approx 400 cu. m of clay, again compacted rather than what seems to be the usual 'leave it to settle over two rain seasons'.
> 
> Didn't go ahead with the planned house build, had an 'offer we can't refuse' in 2017 and accepted that, bought an existing house instead. While we're not in a flood-prone area the house is on a built-up section, and floor level 0.8m higher, safe enough till Noah floats past in the ark.
> 
> Now the former orchard has been subdivided with multiple houses, looks good. It was the right decision for us, as on the 'wrong/inland' side of Sukhumvit Rd.



I have some questions, I hope I don't sound to critical. I understand it's necessary to be at road level, but how does leveling the soil help with drainage? A raised level block is likely to erode. Similarly, how does compacting the soil help? Of course this is necessary if it's to be built upon, but compacted soil doesn't drain and is difficult to grow on, as is the fill in clay. You can see the block is bare, it will be difficult to have a garden.

On a block across from me they took down all the trees, leveled it off, then compacted it. The compaction has reduced drainage, as has the leveling and there are no trees to absorb the water. Quite a bit of time and money went into it, but not much thought. Is it necessary or is it preferred for appearance and because everybody else does it?

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## prawnograph

^ hi
It wasn't perfectly level, but at a gradient in terms of the engineer's drainage plan sloping towards a drain running across the edge of the rubber trees.
As an orchard the rows of trees were built-up with ditches between to allow for drainage - Chanthaburi gets plenty of rainfall. More than enough with regular floods. Fruit trees don't like permanent wet feet.
Good soil but it had never been built on, once all the mature trees were removed - durian, mangosteen, longan, we followed his recommendation to have the roller over, then the top of clay, 400cu.m doesn't go far/deep over that area. 
Never got far enough in our plans to consider a garden. 
But we do have one where we are now - and you may have a chuckle here - we had to dig out the area and re-fill it with decent black soil as the 'green area' was a mix of rocks and clay and broken bricks/concrete the builders had used it as their waste area then overlaid clay on top.

And a note. The second house we lived in here (rental) was slowly splitting apart with a gap of over 1cm under the eaves. It was less than 10 years old at the time, three years there what was initially just a crack in the wall  became a 3m air vent patched with a strip of wood. Compaction?

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