#  >  > Travellers Tales in Thailand and Asia >  >  > Thailand, Asia & the rest of the World Questions & Answers Forum >  >  Your take on living in the ME

## Neo

Never worked out there myself, my old man used to work on hovercraft out there in the 70's so maybe it's worth a crack. 

Based in Dubai and flying into Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar for on the job training and assessment. 3-5 years if you can handle the flies, the heat and the body odour. 

What's a good wage for that kind of work..? No big fish tales please. 
Accommodation, pension etc taken care of, just bottom line. I'm thinking £45k to make it worth living in the number one most geologically and intellectually barren place in the world, and get some savings in the bank back home. 

So what's it like? Boring? I could do with staying off the booze for a while anyway. Go to the gym, sniff lettuce.. upside is plenty of flights out of Dubai, might even get back to ol' SEA. 

I can't see it as a long term prospect though. Is it one of those places where you have to focus on the money and then get out of Dodge? 

Thoughts please.

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## david44

It's a kinda cross between an asylum a waiting room for discharge and a highly paid gauge of how poor/rich you can endure.

I recall in KSA at 54 degrees and drinking haram,all else even kuwait iraq is a holiday camp every guy from boss to sleeper knew exactly how long until end of the contract.

Prisoner cell block H without lovely ladies or grog readily available.for gay camel enthusiasts wanna be muslims and perhaps masochists great way to pay off alimony, school fees car loan or in a short time a home in LOS,do the haj, climb mts full of apes ,bathroom hootch and jeddah parties

I worked in Qatar UAE and Oman which are all lovely but so many ways to compensate with the colleagues.KSA is full frontal as you say take the money and run.
Your ballpark figure sounds right plus you can save nearly all of it if content to eat curry.

These days with the net, music films Skype it's not the penance of old and guy I know still there say rates haven't improved much with so many graduates and skilled trades seeking work.

You may like to check utube for drifting and haram to give a taste. Having done Ramadan in August in Riyadh the rest of my life is a holiday.

pm if you specific questions I'm sure many Oil guys finance education shipping and military,training, medical guys here will have info.
I believe Cyrille and others will have up to date info

Avoid Qatif for many reasons

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## TizMe

> Prisoner cell block H without lovely ladies or grog readily available.


I spent 8 years in Jeddah.
The walls around the compound were to keep locals out, not to keep us in.
The compound had swimming pools, tennis courts, gymnasium, a few bars. Everything that you could ever want, or need. 
Partied almost non stop. Never drank so much anywhere else I ever lived.
Plenty of lovely nurses and flight attendants to party with.
Weekends spent diving in the Red Sea and BBQ and drinks at the beach.

Finish work every day at 4pm.
To keep the boss happy, I just had to do more work than the 3 Saudis in my team. I could manage that by just working 2 days per week.

No rent, no electricity bills, no income tax, petrol cheaper than water.

I had a great time there.

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## Roobarb

I've been based in Dubai for the last year.  

All in all its a decent place to live and work.  Take Dubai as being a bit like expat life in Singapore but with fewer options for living cheaply.  There's no income tax here which makes up for the generally high cost of living, so it's a bit of a zero-sum gain there.  

GBP 45K/year after rent, pension etc is enough to live on and put some money aside.  Booze is expensive here, eating out is also fairly pricey too.  If you come out here with the attitude of putting in a few years of hard work and not too much play then you'll probably get away with spending about GBP 1-2 K per month and bank the rest. 

Cars - I'm not sure if you get a company car or not but the likelihood is you'll need a car here as relying on public transport is not great.  They are cheap in Dubai compared with most of the rest of the world.  Fuel is relatively inconsequential but servicing etc can be expensive as the supply of parts is a closed shop.  I bought a 3 year old Golf GTI for about AED 70K when I got here which does the job for me.  Finance is easy to get if you want to splash the cash and get something a bit different.  There's a website called Dubizzle which is where many expats sell there stuff when they are leaving and is a good place to see the price of used cars - or anything else you may want.

Travelling in and out of Bahrain and Doha from Dubai is easy and you can do either of them as day trips if you want.  Bahrain is not a bad place to stay for a few nights, Doha less so. Saudi is a little more challenging to travel to but take it for what it is rather than wish it was different and it's fine.

The weather in Dubai is unpleasantly hot for about three months of the year in the summer (June/July/August). High 40's, but fairly dry compared with SE Asia.  The humidity does creep up in the latter part of the summer.  For the remaining 9 months of the year the weather is very liveable.  Today was a high of about 25 degrees, blue skies.  Tonight the temperature will drop to about 12 to 15 degrees I guess.  The reason for mentioning all this is that, other than in mid-summer, there's a lot that you can do if you're an outdoorsy type that won't cost much.  Bicycling is becoming increasingly popular and there are several really good dedicated bike tracks that have recently been built.  Get yourself a 4WD and go exploring in the desert/mountains at the weekends.  Sailing, tennis, horse riding etc etc.  Lots of stuff to do if you want.

Downsides of the place - 

1) Party hard and Dubai will bankrupt you.  
2) Every bank will trip over themselves to lend you money and give you credit cards.  There's lots to waste money on here if you choose to do so.
3) On the outside everything looks mega clean and efficient, but scratch the surface and it is still a Middle-East country so things can be a bit slow and bureaucratic at times.

All in all I really like the place.  It's never going to be where I retire, but that's the same for everyone who is not a local here.  Come, work, keep it sensible, put some cash aside, don't worry that others may have a more extravagant lifestyle than you (smugly note point 2 above) and then when you've had enough move on with some cash jangling in your pocket.  

On that note, check on how your employer will calculate gratuity.  The deal in the UAE is that if you work for three years you'll get 21 days salary for each year worked when you leave the company.  Some companies calculate gratuity on the gross salary (including housing etc) and some on net.  There's a move afoot by the government to calculate this on gross but not all employers follow it.  Worth checking on as it is a reasonable extra chunk of free cash when you leave.

Hope that helps, PM me if you want some more details or to give me a call.  

Good luck on the decision!

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## DrB0b

> I'm thinking £45k to make it worth living in the number one most geologically and intellectually barren place in the world, and get some savings in the bank back home.


£45k is barely reasonable in the UK. If you're going to work in the ME you should be looking at £100k minimum.

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## Neo

Good info guys... worth thinking about. 
One plus I see is being able to fly out to SEA and Aus.. I'd like to think flights out of Dubai are cheap and plentiful, but is that the case?

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## blue

What jobs are we talking here ?
I'm not looking to go . as I'm 100's of years old, just out of interest

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## Bettyboo

> 1) Party hard and Dubai will bankrupt you.


This would be my major concern!




> £45k is barely reasonable in the UK. If you're going to work in the ME you should be looking at £100k minimum.


Accom paid and no tax, etc, 45k pounds in Dubai is 100k pounds in England - that's the point...

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## Luigi

> *Your take on living in the ME*


fuck that-io.

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## panama hat

> Based in Dubai


That's a good start - possibly the best place to be based




> What's a good wage for that kind of work..? No big fish tales please.





> £45k


Seeing as it is net the number is ok.  Not particularly good, but ok.  You sensibly didn't mention what you do, specifically, which makes it difficult to ascertain the acceptability of the offer. 




> So what's it like? Boring?


Not at all.  If you have kids then it's quite ok . . . alone and you'll be lining up with the morons for expensive Ukie or Russian hookers




> I could do with staying off the booze for a while anyway.


No need . . . if you fly a lot then duty free makes it cheap




> I worked in Qatar UAE and Oman


Ditto, kind of.  Qatar is the pits, only drowned out by KSA but Oman is lovely and parts of  UAE are quite ok.
Had some friends return to KL after eight years in Abu Dhabi . . . they miss the place quite considerably

I did a mall Oman pic report - check it out




> KSA is full frontal as you say take the money and run.


Horrible




> I spent 8 years in Jeddah.


Ugh . . . 

Imagine this:  yucky freezing and yucky 50 degrees plus . . . no scenery, really (aside from Oman and parts of Saudi) - everything is grey and brown

If you want to just slog it out for a few years of good money - do it

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## rickschoppers

PH, have to disagree with your thoughts of Jeddah above and a few other comments.

Living and working in the KSA has a  lot to do with the compound you live in. If it is like TizMe explained with a nice environment that keeps the Saudis out, it is a constant party. We used to have a still to make 'Sadik' and many expats from the UK and Australia were excellent at making home made beer. The idea that one can not drink alcohol in the Kingdom is silly. We used to receive several bottles of Johnny Walker Black from our pharmaceutical distributor. Since I worked in a hospital, there was an endless stream of nurses from 21 nationalities that I tried to work my way through.

The second hospital I worked at was a totally different story. The compound contained Saudi nationals and drinking alcohol had to be done more discreetly. Luckily, some of us befriended the air traffic controllers of Riyadh and they had a fantastic compound. Very much like a five star resort, but without females. We would advertise in the hospital for a weekend party and took several busloads of nurses to the controller's compound and we were rewarded by free booze(real booze) and lodging for the weekend. They would lock the compound gates on Friday night and reopen Sunday night. Needless to say, plenty went on during these two days.

As far a vehicles go, I shared a Nissan Patrol with two other workers in the hospital and drove all over Saudi Arabia, except for Mecca. I purchased a used Mercedes for a very reasonable price and had it shipped to the States. I would not recommend this since the paperwork is copious. If you are female, forget about driving in Saudi Arabia.

Plenty to do and one needs to watch their money since the souks can soak it up pretty quickly. Electronics, gold and carpets were my weakness, but I was still able to bolster my savings account since we paid no income tax, lodging or utilities while I was there. Each work contract is different, so read carefully before signing. My understanding is that time off and pay have decreased since I worked there, but they are still worth the effort.

Jeddah was the most cosmopolitan city I experienced in Saudi. It was much more lax than Riyadh when it came to dress, walking with a single female or overall behaviour. Diving the Red Sea is a must and many great compounds exist for the large expat population.

Personally, I had a great time and travelling to other countries was easy and enjoyable. Jeddah was about a 3.5 hour flight from Kenya and the location of Saudi Arabia put one close to SEA, India, Africa and several other vacation destinations. My advice is to give it a go, as long as your contract is decent along with the compound being tolerable. No Muslims allowed inside the compound is a must.

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## Neo

I'm not taking the option lightly, the ME post is seen as demanding and it is expected that 3 years would be enough for anyone. The company it is for would mean a very secure future.. it's an option at a good point in time. With a pool and a bar I could get by, and getting out of Blighty with the  option to travel further afield again is a big draw. Won't know anything further until next month.. but thanks guys for the info, I'll keep you posted.

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## Davis Knowlton

I lived (existed) in Dhahran in the Eastern Province - the most restrictive area is Saudi. Aramco was there, but they kept to themselves. I lived in a decent, small compound...small pool, snack bar, squash courts. 

It was the most boring two years of my life. I made the same money there as I would anywhere else (USG).

I came out of it with PADI dive tickets up through Master Diver and some good carpets.

That and a lifetime loathing of Saudis.

Note: I didn't say Arabs, or Muslims....just Saudis. The most useless kunts on the Earth.

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## rickschoppers

So Davis, your experience was much different than mine, obviously. I had thought about Aramco only because I heard their compound was not bad. You are isolated there, which is a definite negative. Did you not come out ahead by not paying any income tax? Was your lodging and utilites not covered?

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## Neo

> Saudis. The most useless kunts on the Earth.


So I can expect the job to last a while then  :Very Happy:

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## Davis Knowlton

> Did you not come out ahead by not paying any income tax? Was your lodging and utilites not covered?


Lodging and utilities was covered anywhere I served abroad. I paid Federal income tax as they paid me, so it wasn't foreign earned income. I paid no state taxes, as New Hampshire (a non-tax state) was my home of record.

There were advantages to serving outside of the US, which is where I served 80% of my career. There were no financial advantages to doing time in Saudi, vice serving in say Bangkok.

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## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> 
> Saudis. The most useless kunts on the Earth.
> 
> 
> So I can expect the job to last a while then


Until the kunts can hire some Indian to do your job cheaper. I was there 86-88. The boom years were over. Aramco had once been pretty nice, but was turning into a third world ghetto as the Saudis fired Americans and Brits and replaced them with Indians, Pakis, etc.

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## Dillinger

Where's that photo of Betty and his goat herding drinking buddies? :Smile:

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by Neo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> ...


Yes, same years as me Davis, but I was in Riyadh. I was grooming a new Saudi pharmacy school grad to become Director of Pharmacy. I was one of two Americans left on staff and the rest were pharmacists from Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Egypt, and a few other ME countries.  It would be interesting to go back now and see what the service level is like.

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## Dillinger

Can you say grooming nowadays? :Smile:

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## rickschoppers

> Can you say grooming nowadays?


Training, educating, enlightening?

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## Neo

> Until the kunts can hire some Indian to do your job cheaper.


It's ok I'm a specialist  :Smile:

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## beerlaodrinker

At this point in time I would also entertain the idea of working in the Middle East if a good opportunity came along, and like you neo, it might have health and financial benefits by keeping of the drinks and saving the coin until your done, all my expat contracts have been in SEA  thus far so I would probably struggle to deal with the ME, I doubt they would like me to much and vice a versa, would probably take a job in PNG before the Middle East, The women are damn hot and easy to get along with :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## jimbobs

£45000 a year is not good money no matter what you say

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## kingwilly

> I'm not taking the option lightly, the ME post is seen as demanding and it is expected that 3 years would be enough for anyone. The company it is for would mean a very secure future.. it's an option at a good point in time. With a pool and a bar I could get by, and getting out of Blighty with the  option to travel further afield again is a big draw. Won't know anything further until next month.. but thanks guys for the info, I'll keep you posted.


Good luck

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## panama hat

> £45000 a year is not good money no matter what you say


Not everyone earns triple figure in pounds tax free like you do, mate

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## melvin

Dubai is an OK place to stay/live/work in.
Not a bad place at all.

Adjust your wage expectations upwards.

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## Neo

I'm definitely warming to the idea. The company HR will have a figure and package already worked out, though I've been asked to let them know my expectations. I'll hold out and see what they offer, but  asking the question here will give me an idea if their offer is worth it.  

My old rule of thumb for working abroad is pay should be at least 30% over what you can earn at home and should offer expenses. Given that Dubai is tax free I assume I will also be saving another 20% So 45k bottom line plus expenses would make it worthwhile. No wife and kids and no mortgage so it's gonna go on holidays and savings. 

Aside from the the monetary reward its a job that will secure my future and lead to potentially bigger earnings, so I'm not gonna beat myself up about the bottom line. I appreciate though that you say it's a good place to live, and that's what I'm looking to hear.  All advice is appreciated. 

It's not the only notable job I have lined up at the moment, and it may well be that I stay where I am. I'll have a better idea by the end of January.

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## beerlaodrinker

If the coins ok and you get a good residential package you can't go far wrong, in my industry(mining) things are bleak and likely to remain so for quite some time, as you say, no kids and no wife to factor into the equation, should be an easy decision to make, Watch out for HR, it's there job to try to fuk you over on your package( it keeps there yearly performance reviews good)

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## OhOh

You will be considered slightly above a Pakistani labourer. Your status is expendible. If you think Thais have felang problems to the ME locals you may be a little lower than his camel, hawk or dog. The 45K will not last long if you are commuting to/from SE Asia regularly.

As a "specialist" the time to negotiate is before you leave the UK. Some countries have effective means of stopping foreigners from leaving.

Negotiation points:

1. Money paid in the bank of your choice, defined in a currency of your choice. 50% currency, 50% gold bars.
2. Medical expenses
3. Own apartment. You can always choose who to socialise with, not so an apartment sharer appointed by your company.
4. Maid service - A necessity, and he/she may have a friend or two as well. :Smile: 
5. 4wd car/truck
6. Paid holidays - is the UK standard 25 days per year now?
7. Semi annual business class return tickets 
8. All taxes paid
9. A contract with a UK company to be written in, and under the jurisdiction of the, UK/EU legal system.

You can sit in a compound and drink, gamble, play with stewardesses or take the opportunity to learn Russian. 

You can also enjoy the ME, souks and the ever available nightlife. Some locals enjoy new people and can include you in their many different/unusual experiences - camel racing, hawking, deep sea fishing..........

It can be 2-3 years of counting down the days or it can be yet another "life"  to experience. Whatever you do negotiate before you step on a plane.

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## Neo

Good news.. I've landed the job in Dubai. 
I'll be departing the UK around the end of Feb  :Smile: 

 :party43:

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## Cujo

> Good news.. I've landed the job in Dubai. 
> I'll be departing the UK around the end of Feb


Good luck and please keep us informed as to how it's going.

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## Neo

Cheers will do of course and no doubt I'll have a few questions along the way  :Wink:

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## jimbobs

Good luck Neo I hope it works out mate
As you say your a single guy it's a good way to save a few bob without the temptations of home

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## jimbobs

> Originally Posted by jimbobs
> 
> 
> £45000 a year is not good money no matter what you say
> 
> 
> Not everyone earns triple figure in pounds tax free like you do, mate


I didn't meen to sound a tit it came out wrong
Just I know aramco are giving $12000 a month to some pretty useless guys I know
I'm thinking about it myself as I am in aberdeen working now and will not be getting home to Thailand as much as when I was on rotation

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## Neo

The big money is contract work, no guarantees though eh, this is long term living in the region so it evens out, you get gratuity, yearly bonus etc. No worries Jim, see you in the sun  :Smile:

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## panama hat

Congrats!  Make the contract/years count - the world economy simply isn't getting better. 

Enjoy the ride, it can be an interesting place

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## Neo

Cheers PH, the journey isn't over  :Wink:

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## beerlaodrinker

Fantastic, keep us posted on life in Dubei

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## OhOh

> Cheers will do of course and no doubt I'll have a few questions along the way


I would hope all the important questions have been answered all ready and incorporated into your contract.

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## Neo

Duh.. yeah. But HR couldn't tell me where to get a Mr Whippy  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Bettyboo

Good luck with it, Neo - but, take care! In Dubai, it's very very easy to spend every penny you have. It's easy to get big loans from the bank and then spend that too!

Luckily for me, I didn't live in Dubai, just visited from the Omani desert, but I knew many fellas who did live there and they were all broke...

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## PeeCoffee

Ahh, the Seven Emirates. Good on you and good luck with your future , Neo.
Try to do yourself a big favour/(flavour) - keep your mouth shut regarding your feelings and/ or personal viewpoints about Iran and Palestine when you're mixing it up with the locals = "Don't shoot yourself in the foot." They're not quite as tolerant as one would conjecture. 
Something tells me you may come across some women from the ASEAN nations there as well.
Sincerest good wishes with your new position.

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## Davis Knowlton

Best of luck; new adventures!

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## Neo

It's a done deal... had to wait on HR and with a bit of back and forth got a decent salary, the paperwork is now signed off. It takes a while to process with UAE so I'm off to France for a couple of weeks for company induction and training. 

As and when is yet to be confirmed but hopefully should have my kit packed and flights booked by the end of next week  :Wink:

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## OhOh

You get to choose your maid then?

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## Neo

I wouldn't want one even if I could.. decadence is not really my style, though its going to be plenty in my face in Dubai. I didn't have a deprived childhood, we were taught how to cook and clean up after ourselves  :Wink:

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