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## Lostandfound

BBC News - Malaysia Airlines losses worsen on MH370 disappearance


Malaysia Airlines chief executive Ahmad Jauhari Yahya has been under pressure to fix the company finances


Malaysia Airlines has seen its losses deepen after Flight 370 vanished over two months ago, raising questions about the future of the 76-year-old carrier.

The company's net loss rose by 59% to 443m ringgit ($138m; £82m) in the January-to-March period, marking its fifth straight quarter of losses.

The firm attributed it to "tough operating conditions" and "negative sentiment".

Investors shrugged off the news with shares rising 2.4%.

Only 30% of the company is able to be bought freely on the stock exchange in Kuala Lumpur, with the rest held by state investment firm Khazanah Nasional.

Of the 30% that trades on Malaysia's stock exchange, most of that is owned by the country's pension funds and other institutions, leaving a small proportion for retail investors to trade.

Overall though, the firm has lost more than 40% of its market value this year.

Continue reading the main story
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The results were made worse with the impact on air travel in general following the disappearance of MH370

Ahmad Jauhari Yahya
Chief executive, Malaysia Airlines
Flight 370 went missing on 8 March while flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing, leading to a massive search and rescue operation that is still ongoing and may cost millions of dollars.

The Malaysian government believes the plane ended its journey in the Indian Ocean, but no trace of the plane or wreckage has been found so far.

The crisis led to a high number of cancellations and reputational damage to the carrier, including a 60% drop in sales from China.

About two-thirds of the 239 people on board Flight 370 were from China, prompting boycotts by some travel agents on the Mainland.

Malaysia Airlines chief executive Ahmad Jauhari Yahya said the disappearance of Flight 370 added to its poor results, which were "not unexpected".

"The results were made worse with the impact on air travel in general following the disappearance of MH370. The whole market has reacted by slowing down demand," he said in a statement.

The company "needs to accelerate efforts to improve its revenue stream and better manage our high costs which have increased" he added.

"This need has become even more urgent for Malaysia Airlines' future survival and sustainability in a market that is not showing any signs of letting up on competition",

Financial future
A man stands at a memorial wall for MH370
Most of the passengers on Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 were from China
Malaysia Airlines has been struggling in the face of high fuel prices, foreign exchange fluctuations and increased competition from budget carriers in the region.

"Further efforts need to be made to manage fuel costs which increased 14% despite a decrease in jet fuel price," the company said.

Malaysia Airlines has racked up losses of more than $1.3bn over the last three years and analysts expect that to rise further.

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The significant negative sentiment and increasingly competitive operating environment will likely further impair management's ability to "right the ship" anytime soon

Michael Beer
Transport analyst, Citibank
Malaysian Defense Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said at a news conference on Thursday that the government has no plans to financially bail out Malaysia Airlines.

Malaysia Airlines said much of the costs associated with the disappearance of Flight 370 will be covered by insurance.

However, the mounting red ink has increased speculation it may be forced to file for bankruptcy or possibly be broken up even though it is majority-owned by Malaysia's state investment firm

Michael Beer, a transport analyst at Citibank remains neutral on the stock, but says a lot depends on the company's strategy.

"The significant negative sentiment and increasingly competitive operating environment will likely further impair management's ability to "right the ship" anytime soon," he said.

Despite the grim outlook, Malaysia's airline chief plans to continue with the company's turnaround effort.

"We still have much work ahead of us to deal with the reality of the business and competition as a dynamic and nimble operation," he said.

"MH370 has brought out the best of our Malaysia Airlines team to stand united to face the crisis. We will be leveraging on this team spirit to fight for our future."

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## xanax

Will they be having a sale?

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## david44

Rong gang

Air Asia is going to go upscale with KLIA2

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## Lostandfound

^ looks to me like an airline run by idiot bureaucrats.

IME the customer facing problems with MH are so obvious it defies explanation that no action is taken to remedy things, except the fact they are clueless jungle monkey Bumis in charge (very Malaysian):

- Failure to capitalize on capacity at KLIA to use as a regional hub
- Poor value in premium cabins and very last decade hard product
- Lack of competitiveness with Mid East carriers (many premium pax are ME)

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## aging one

> Air Asia is going to go upscale with KLIA2


Tony Fernandez is on record saying the new terminal in KL is horrible. He wanted and still wants to stay where he is. He knows he is a low cost airline and he only has a one year guarantee in the new terminal until fees start to rise. 
He noted the old terminal cost 9% as much as the new one to construct. Yet was servicing as many people as the new terminal is planned to do. Yes it was low cost. But you get what you pay for.

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## Bettyboo

I've flown Malaysian a few times, they were good.

I've flown Air Asia a few times too, I rate them as a decent low cost airline.

I'd like to see them both keep going.

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## Lostandfound

> I've flown Malaysian a few times, they were good.
> 
> I've flown Air Asia a few times too, I rate them as a decent low cost airline.
> 
> I'd like to see them both keep going.


Air Asia is OK - you get what you pay for.

MH - I flew business Istanbul/Kl and Paris/Kl six months ago and it was very poor value. The seat etc is at least 10 years out of date for J class and that was on a brand new A380. I found it incomprehensible that they buy new planes but use out of date seats. Food was atrocious too. Like bad wedding food. All bullshit recipes with crap ingredients

Clueless.

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## Mid

> Malaysia Airlines has seen its losses deepen after Flight 370 vanished over two months ago, raising questions about the future of the 76-year-old carrier.


Gee , never saw that coming , pity Ocker ain't around to tell me why I was wrong  :mid:

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## david44

> Originally Posted by Lostandfound
> 
> 
> Malaysia Airlines has seen its losses deepen after Flight 370 vanished over two months ago, raising questions about the future of the 76-year-old carrier.
> 
> 
> Gee , never saw that coming , pity Ocker ain't around to tell me why I was wrong


Mid-Air intelligence :smiley laughing:

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## Thormaturge

One an airline becomes associated with a highly publicised loss of life it is hard to survive.   Pan Am, 1-2-Go, Malaysian ....   

There is a small travel agency on Phrom Phong BTS station with the old 1-2-Go logo above the door still.  I have never once seen a customer in there.

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## Ronin

> One an airline becomes associated with a highly publicised loss of life it is hard to survive.   Pan Am, 1-2-Go, Malaysian ....


Ahem, KLM is still going strong yet it was a KLM pilot who was responsible for the Tenerife tragedy - confirmed by the American and Spanish investigators but not the Dutch who tried to 'whitewash' events.

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## Lostandfound

> Originally Posted by Thormaturge
> 
> 
> One an airline becomes associated with a highly publicised loss of life it is hard to survive.   Pan Am, 1-2-Go, Malaysian ....   
> 
> 
> Ahem, KLM is still going strong yet it was a KLM pilot who was responsible for the Tenerife tragedy - confirmed by the American and Spanish investigators but not the Dutch who tried to 'whitewash' events.


TWA? Swissair?

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## Ronin

^ I don't why you are referring to TWA the reason that folded was because of mis-management/economic reasons and as I recall had something of a bad safety record.  Swissair still exists and has no more accidents than any other airline (only two of note in about 20 years that I can think of).

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## Thormaturge

> Originally Posted by Thormaturge
> 
> 
> One an airline becomes associated with a highly publicised loss of life it is hard to survive.   Pan Am, 1-2-Go, Malaysian ....   
> 
> 
> Ahem, KLM is still going strong yet it was a KLM pilot who was responsible for the Tenerife tragedy - confirmed by the American and Spanish investigators but not the Dutch who tried to 'whitewash' events.


You mean the merged Air France - KLM airline I presume, which still flies under two separate identities.

Add Concorde to the list.

Yes, as with Orient Thai there are still some people who will fly with them but a highly publicised loss inevitably leads to a loss of public confidence.

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## BobR

> One an airline becomes associated with a highly publicised loss of life it is hard to survive.   Pan Am, 1-2-Go, Malaysian ....   
> 
> There is a small travel agency on Phrom Phong BTS station with the old 1-2-Go logo above the door still.  I have never once seen a customer in there.



You're probably right about One-two-go, but there is really no comparison between that joke of an airline and the great airline Pam Am once was.  

Sadly TIT and the not so great airline is still flying:

Orient Thai Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Orient Thai Airlines and its now-defunct wholly owned domestic carrier One-Two-GO Airlines are the only Thai airlines to bear a Royal Seal, made possible due to Udoms close relationship with the King of Thailand based on Udoms history of breaking traditional commercial barriers for Thailand.

On September 2004, an Orient Thai 747 flew within 200 meters of Japan's Tokyo Tower over the heart of downtown Tokyo.[3]

On July 22, 2008, shortly after the crash in Phuket which killed 89 people, and after the internet publication of illegally excessive work hours and check fraud Orient Thai and its subsidiaries were ordered to suspend service for 56 days due to failure to train, failure to have a safety program and failure to supervise safe flight, check ride fraud and breaking the law at Orient Thai and One-Two-GO.[4]"

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## terry57

> Ahem, KLM is still going strong yet it was a KLM pilot who was responsible for the Tenerife tragedy -.



I don't think that a Airline can be held responsible for the loss of plane because of gross incompetence of a rouge pilot. 

Humans do strange things even top class pilots.  

The Tenerife incident was caused 100 % because of the pilots insistence to take of in zero visibility and without permission .

If a plane goes down because of human error I would not be concerned flying with that Airline but if a plane goes down because of mechanical problems I would certainly not want to fly with them until the investigates had concluded why it went down.    

Hence why its so important to find 370 .

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## terry57

> Air Asia is OK - you get what you pay for.



Actually I'd go a tad further than that and say Air Asia is sensational value for what one gets.

Its really just a bus in the sky and pitches itself straight up no frills as a point to point carrier. 

Ive been flying with them since the get go and have taken maybe a hundred flights to multiple destinations all over Asia and back to Australia. 

Also have scored quite a few free flights and payed taxes only. 

The thing is to be flexible with ones times and pre book food,  a seat and luggage on the net.  

Ive had many flights where I have payed less than what I pay for 20 KLM taxi ride in Perth.

Air Asia also has many new A320 and A330 planes in there fleet . Never been an issue with there maintenance either. 

Amazes me when people complain about budget carriers. 

So punters want to fly budjet but expect all the frills.

Complete fools this lot.

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## terry57

> Tony Fernandez is on record saying the new terminal in KL is horrible. He wanted and still wants to stay where he is. He knows he is a low cost airline and he only has a one year guarantee in the new terminal until fees start to rise.




Tony Fernadez is a genius business man.  

He knew his market from start up,  stuck to his business plan and drove Air Asia into the stratosphere.

Air Asia prospered from year one and has turned into a highly profitable business by offering very well priced flights aimed at the correct market .

The trick in business is to keep the overheads down, every expense adds up resulting in the need to raise fares.

Fernadez is a very smart guy,  he does not want to do this hence KLIA2 is a nightmare for him.

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## Thormaturge

> You're probably right about One-two-go, but there is really no comparison between that joke of an airline and the great airline Pam Am once was.


If the public see wreckage and dead bodies stewn over the ground some of them won't care what the cause was.  Many won't even bother reading what the cause was.  Hence people still fly with Orient Thai......

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## david44

> Originally Posted by aging one
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Fernandez is on record saying the new terminal in KL is horrible. He wanted and still wants to stay where he is. He knows he is a low cost airline and he only has a one year guarantee in the new terminal until fees start to rise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


3 excellent lucid posts Terry, are the bars locked in Bali or are a Mosque man these days? If you missed church parade Pint of Guiness a double shot of tequila and a Tabasco enema get you on the prowl again. :sexy: 

I too have only good things to say about AA,clean efficient,have had faltbed to Perth and many short hops where as he said fares from Kl less than a cab between Perth terminals.
Flights out of Thailand are boosted by 700 baht levy but ive had flights as low as $5 in other places.Pity about LK12 as somehow I feel we'll al end up funding the hole in Malaysian Airline ,ie Maly state finances that are result of MH730

Hardly see even aconspiract post,seems the big bucks TV have given up,oddly only upside for Malaysia would be 10% proof it was not them 

e.g.
Shot down ,I'm sure we'll never no who
Boeing failure
Some other cause eg hijacked which would still prevent me from flying MH again which is apity as their old Cairns troute was handy and while inferior to some good value and food seats better than BA jetstar and as good as Thai with handy free stop overs in KL.

I guess like here the free flyers unions loss of face wont let them close it however bad the numbers :deadhorsebig:

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## david44

P.S. remember at our age when leering at backpackerettes its only one dribble between being that amusing mature guy with the funny storeis,film star looks rs to being a drooling old pervert.Best not put your dentures on your psing pouch.
This was great advice to me pass it on :rofl: 

Have a good on

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## Ronin

> You mean the merged Air France - KLM airline I presume, which still flies under two separate identities.


I wasn't aware of that.




> Add Concorde to the list.


That was an unforseen circumstance as many other incidents are or have been.




> Yes, as with Orient Thai there are still some people who will fly with them but a highly publicised loss inevitably leads to a loss of public confidence.


To some degree but others have recovered or at least survived American Airlines has had some nasty accidents.

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## Ronin

> I don't think that a Airline can be held responsible for the loss of plane because of gross incompetence of a rouge pilot.


I am not so sure the pressure was on for him to maintain his legal amount of flying hours and get the plane back to where it should be within a certain time frame although I would have to re-watch the documentary for the details.

I pretty much agree with everything else in your post.

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## mingmong

I spent an Hour and and half waiting to get in to the Old Terminal last November, 2 planes Loads or Punters trying to get through 1 Radar machine at the same time .

AA Is great value but, Im sitting in the Tune Hotel @KLIA2 at the very moment, much improvement and prices are still down down!

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## Waid

I've had a lot of respect for Malaysian Airlines over the years. They were not afraid of flying long routes over water - KL - JHB - CTN - South America - same plane - then immediate return.

MAS370 was a shame. If they'd only paid a little extra for 'almost live' satellite communications, things may have been different. Sad, it is.

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## terry57

> I am not so sure the pressure was on for him to maintain his legal amount of flying hours and get the plane back to where it should be within a certain time frame although I would have to re-watch the documentary for the details.



The senior pilot was under pressure to take off. 

Because of the delay caused by the appalling weather his maximum flying hours where rapidly approaching and that meant flying in another crew and off loading all the passengers into a hotel if he went over time.

He made a call to take off without permission and hit the other plane resulting in a huge loss of life. 

100 % pilot error. Nothing to do with the state of the plane or even the weather.

He discarded the Standard Operating Procedure and all died.   

Would I fly KLM once the facts came out ?

Absolutely.  The Captain was 100 % wrong.

Further more it was discovered that the Junior pilot had questioned the Seniors pilots decision to take off but was too scared to do anything about it because of the Senior pilots rank.

Turned out that the Senior pilot had massive hours up and was an instructor. 

The rules have now been changed so a Junior pilot can over rule a Senior pilot if the Junior pilot feels the Senior pilot is placing the plane in jeopardy. 

Once again human error causes many plane crashes.

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## terry57

> 3 excellent lucid posts Terry, are the bars locked in Bali




Na,   Just run out of head banging hydro mull. Shits me when I have to straighten up.

Anyway the mad Corby bint is only a stones throw away so I'll just pop down there and supply up.   :Smile:

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## beerlaodrinker

BYO boogy board tel? I will add my 2 kips worth AA So far have been excellent as far as I'm concerned, loved the flatbed seats KL to Perth, been fucked about once or twice with them changing the schedule, you just have to be a bit flexible I reckon ,

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## terry57

^

Yep budget Airline,

Go with the flow EH. 

But I must say in the 10 years I have been flying with them I've hardly been foked around.

Unlike the Budget arm of Qantas which is Jet Star.

Conts just cancel flights on whim and bump passengers onto the next plane to fill it.

I never fly Qantas or there shitty low cost Jetstar but they done this to my friends this year flying Bangkok to Melbourne. 

Mincers working as trolly dollys as well.  :Confused: 

Butters might love that but I find it thoroughly disturbing.    :spam2:

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## beerlaodrinker

Right up butters alley all that shit.

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## Ronin

> Originally Posted by Ronin
> 
> 
> 
> I am not so sure the pressure was on for him to maintain his legal amount of flying hours and get the plane back to where it should be within a certain time frame although I would have to re-watch the documentary for the details.
> 
> 
> 
> The senior pilot was under pressure to take off. 
> ...


Apart from the pilots something that is rarely mentioned is the KLM plane had a flight engineer, had he cut the fuel the pilot wouldn't have been able to do anything but then like the co-pilot he was young and too scared of the captain to do anything. This scenario of deference to the man in charge has been played out time and time again.

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## Thormaturge

> Conts just cancel flights on whim and bump passengers onto the next plane to fill it.


El Al go one better.

I was on a flight once where the whole of business class were turfed out.

An important official needed to use the plane.

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## danno5

I've been flying Malaysian for the past several years. I flew almost exclusively AA when I first arrived in Malaysia in 2009 - back then the fares were really low and I didn't mind the inconveniences. It got to the point, however, where the price difference between AA and MAS was pretty small, and I just hated LCCT. It was over crowded, almost always had issues checking in, shitty choice of places to eat, uncontrollable boarding process - all just slightly better than the Manila and Jakarta airports (which are the worst I have been in).

As a comparison, I loved the budget terminal in Singapore before they closed that. It was convenient, quick to get in and out, comfortable to wait in, and overall pretty organized (as you would expect in SG). 

I am able us use MAS for business as well as personnel travel, attaining silver then gold status, and for a little extra cost (usually less than USD50), I am more than willing to pay the premium for MAS. While the food in economy isn't that good, at least they are serving food with the ticket price! For the regional flights they have a bunch of new 737s with entertainment systems at every seat. I did find they business class seats a little outdated (although my last flight to the US was on Ethihad in business and their seats were no better).

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## offshore jojo

Malaysia airline forced me to buy a Departure ticket out of Thailand trying go from Manila to Phuket 1.5hr layover in KL. I knew something was wrong when Malaysia airlines desk in Manila only give me boarding pass to KL not one for onward flight to Phuket. She left me stranded in KL..Long story short had to buy cheapest refundable ticket out of Thailand 6000bht phuket to kl on Malaysia airlines almost missed my flight and stressed out big time  because of this bull...
Here is the best part ...Upon trying to refund my ticket at Malaysia airlines in Phuket town (office at airport NOT SELL OR REFUND TICKETS  WTF??)
They charged me 2000bht REFUND FEE......grrr I still not get refund either yet as it is on my visa card and could take months to get whats left of payment for UNNEEDED ticket DON'T fly Malaysia airlines to Phuket....
have a nice day...

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## Drainpipe

> Food was atrocious too. Like bad wedding food.


I never eat at weddings so have no idea what the food is like




> I don't think that a Airline can be held responsible for the loss of plane because of gross incompetence of a rouge pilot.


well, if they hire coloured fellas, they are responsible

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## helge

> Swissair still exists and has no more accidents than any other airline (only two of note in about 20 years that I can think of).


Taken over by Lufthansa

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## xanax

They seem to have a history of cutting corners. I recall when there was some delay in landing a few years ago at Heathrow one of their planes did not have enough fuel to keep a holding pattern.

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## terry57

I remember quite a few years ago when I used to fly Malaysian they would give you a nice pair of socks an eye mask and blanket.

I knocked off 2 off there travel blankets and still use them today on my Air asia flights.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Eye mask was shit but the socks where OK.  :Smile: 

But at the end of the day back then the hosties where hot where as Nasty old Qantas loves to employ mincers.   :Confused: 

Hence why Qantas is spiraling into bankruptcy and because of there stupid pricing.

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## nevets

Air Asia sold me a ticket from Sing to Bangkok knowing all planes where stuck on the ground at Bangkok, still owe me the ticket price.

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## david44

Hard to believe non Malays will book with them with hefty discouting ,I suppose like here its a free fisrt class bus for the hi-sos and their tarts

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## terry57

^

I don't know why this event has spooked customers away from Malaysian Airlines ?

Nothing wrong with the plane but more to do with the Pilot or other outside influences.

The worst publicity has been caused by the Officials who obviously made up shit instead of just admitting they had no idea where it went or what happened. 

I'd fly with them except I wont simply because AirAsia leaves them far behind regards pricing.

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## mingmong

> as Nasty old Qantas loves to employ mincers.


  tis run by a Mincer Paddy! wot you expect Tel, mind you the AA girls are eye candy!

  I still call Australia [a place to pay Tax's] Home

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## mosses11

any news on MH ??? do you still remember them?

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## Smug Farang Bore

> Originally Posted by Ronin
> 
> 
>  Swissair still exists and has no more accidents than any other airline (only two of note in about 20 years that I can think of).
> 
> 
> Taken over by Lufthansa


Flew Swissair business class last month and it was bloody good.


Lounge in Zurich was shit though.

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## helge

Smoking rooms in Zurich the best I have ever seen

Respect for the smokers

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## can123

They have just lost their customer base. See thread relating to downed jet.

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## BobRaleready

Free video chat with Russian girls: runetki com/696310

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## mingmong

/\ the Russians are coming!

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## david44

Dago GarCIA connection again

MH370 was 'shot down by the US military', former airline CEO claims - Asia - World - The Independent

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