#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Doing Things Legally >  >  Thai Divorce law re: Extortion

## drawp

Well, I'll make this simple, my marriage has failed due to trust issues.  I travel a lot for work, deal with mostly women in my line of work, so the wife and her lovely circle of friends have come to the conclusion that I'm only traveling to visit my many mia noi's luangs, yais, giks, and whatever else may have you.  They came to this conclusion for the following reasons: 

she is not able to travel with me for work
mysterious voices and apparently spirits on webcam chats when on travels
and finally, a stolen shoe dream (yes, wtf)

Anyways, I had thought that this would be quite a simple task of just going to the amphur and signing a document, however someone has convinced the hag that she should demand money from me before she will sign any document at the amphur.  The amount, 500k baht, quite a nice severance package I suppose.  Sadly for her, I have recorded her demands on several occasions via text message, video and audio, so evidence shouldn't be a problem (at least in a  normal justice system).

Anyways, what are my options here, I'm 25 and want to get this over with as soon as possible so I can continue with the rest of my life, however she is adamant that she will not sign it until she receives the money. 

I am an American living in Macau, and I guess the marriage is officially recognized in the US, even though she has no visa, or visited the states.  I'd prefer to just get all of this done in Thailand, so again what are my options with the lovely Thai justice system? 

Thanks in advance for any responses.

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## dirtydog

> I am an American living in Macau, and I guess the marriage is officially recognized in the US


Only if you registered it, if you didn't then it aint.

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## drawp

Well thats the thing DD, the embassy site only says you do the affidavit for freedom to marry, and they said once its registered at the amphur its recognized in the states which is what I thought was strange because I thought for every other country still requires you to provide the documentation to the embassy itself.

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/marriage.html

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## Lorenzo

Tell her the marriage is not valid but you will pay her 50,000 baht because you are a nice guy. Then don't contact with her ... she will call you with acceptance at some time.

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## Bung

Do you want to re marry right away? If not i would leave her, don't give her any money and eventually she will get bored of trying to rip you off and look for greener pastures.

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## dirtydog

> once its registered at the amphur its recognized in the states





> A legal marriage in Thailand consists of  both parties registering their marriage in person with the local Thai  Amphur (Civil Registry Office). The United States does recognize the  validity of such a marriage.


Nasty buggers.

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## Troy

Did you pay a dowry when you married? If you did then demand it back for her not trusting you...or sign the divorce paper. On no account give her any money....unless you are in a hurry to remarry...and at 25, I doubt you will be.

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## drawp

In no hurry to remarry and didn't pay any sinsod, heck, barely even dropped any dosh for the ring, but I just want this done and over with.

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## Humbert

If its a registered marriage, she is legally entitled to half your current worth according to Thai law if you go before the courts.
Many Thai men actually employ the strategy she is trying to use on you. They demand a payout before they submit to divorce.
I would not rush things. Paying her off is a dumb idea. Maybe you should demand that she pays you off.

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## dirtydog

^Isn't it current worth on assets etc obtained after the date of marriage?

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## taffyapple

:cmn:  :cmn: unless you reg.the marriage at the us.embassy.if you didnt dont give her fuck all,let her chase you,if you havent got a thai marriage cert.with the date and the reg.no dont do fuck all,once you start to give her anything when will it stop,and dont get a lawyer because that will cost you big time.if she finelly sees sence which not many have you can go along to the district office in the province you got married in and do it yourself and her,you will get a paper to the effect give the officer a few hundred baht for his time then wave goodby to the leach.and hope you learn from it.

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## Davis Knowlton

Drawp: Call the US Embassy. Ask to speak to American Citizen Services. You will initially get a Thai consular assistant on the phone, but often they are much better informed than the American consular officers, who are only there for two years, vice the Thai employees who work there for a living. Explain your situation and ask for their read on it. If you aren't satisfied with the answer, ask to speak with an American officer, which is your right. I doubt very much that your marriage is legal in the US unless you registered it with the Embassy yourself. Don't pay her anything.

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## Jesus Jones

I was in a very similar position to you with my ex and her friends.  Her reason for mistrust, or more to the point her friends, was because as they put it, I'm young looking and handsome and i'll sleep with lots of women.  This sent my ex over the edge with all kinds of conspiracies.

Anyway, i would suggest not to divorce her just yet unless you're desperate to remarry, as she will be the one in the not too distant future begging you for a divorce so that she can marry another farang.

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## taffyapple

:cmn: 


> I was in a very similar position to you with my ex and her friends. Her reason for mistrust, or more to the point her friends, was because as they put it, I'm young looking and handsome and i'll sleep with lots of women. This sent my ex over the edge with all kinds of conspiracies.
> 
> Anyway, i would suggest not to divorce her just yet unless you're desperate to remarry, as she will be the one in the not too distant future begging you for a divorce so that she can marry another farang.


my mate done the same thing let her chase you if your not in a huury before long she will find another meal ticket she will soon change her tune.

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## drawp

Right the whole legality of the marriage in the US is in question, but the consular website doesn't say to register so who knows.

Davis, I will definitely follow your advice and speak with them.

Should it go the route where she is entitled to half, I have nothing in my name, I make a decent amount of dosh but thanks to vacations with her theres really nothing left in the bank account, and since I'm 25 I havent accumulated much yet.

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## pickel

Thai law is 50/50 in a divorce. That includes debts incurred during the marriage. Tell her she is liable for repaying half the debt. It shuts them up in a hurry. Worked for me.  :Smile:

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## Humbert

> ^Isn't it current worth on assets etc obtained after the date of marriage?


Yes, community property and assets in held in common accumulated during the marriage.
I don't understand the interpretations given here regarding the legality of a Thai marriage in the US. If it is a registered marriage it is legal and considered legal in the US according to my understanding of the law.

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## Marmite the Dog

As everyone has said already "Let her rot for a while. Pay her nothing"

Or you can do a Scampy and do the opposite and screw everything up. 

Up to you...

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## Davis Knowlton

^^^^I've generally found the Amcit folks to be well-informed and helpful, if you are polite and can clearly articulate your situation and question. They might even be able to comment on Thai legal issues, although they may tell you they aren't allowed to. Good luck.

^^Humbert. I don't think you are correct. My understanding is that a foreign marriage is not recognized by the US unless the marriage is registered with the US Embassy. I was married overseas, twice. In the first one, both the marriage (in Bangladesh) and the divorce (in Thailand), were registered with the Embassy. In the second (in the Philippines), the marriage was also registered with the Embassy. My understanding is that if they hadn't been registered, they would have had no legal standing in the US. In the first marriage, in which both my wife and I were US citizens, the marriage, although legal under US law, was not registered in a State, and it is the States which determine alimony, etc. As such, I simply drew up my own settlement, the wife and I split the stuff, and went on our way. When I married a second time, ten years later, the legality of the divorce held up with no problem. And the legality of the divorce held up as well when I retired so that my first wife couldn't touch my pension.

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## drawp

> As everyone has said already "Let her rot for a while. Pay her nothing"
> 
> Or you can do a Scampy and do the opposite and screw everything up. 
> 
> Up to you...


I must read on poor scamps situation, but definitely going the with the let her rot route.

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## TizMe

How long have you been married and how much has your financial standing changed since then?

Note that if you do leave her to rot and remain married, that by Thai law you would be liable for half of any debts that she runs up and this could come back to haunt you later.

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## drawp

TizMe, only 4.5 months, financial situation hasn't changed much since then, hardly enough time to accumulate anything, but certainly enough time to blow through what I did have for three vacations to thailand and two to the PI's

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## rickschoppers

> Right the whole legality of the marriage in the US is in question, but the consular website doesn't say to register so who knows.
> 
> Davis, I will definitely follow your advice and speak with them.
> 
> Should it go the route where she is entitled to half, I have nothing in my name, I make a decent amount of dosh but thanks to vacations with her theres really nothing left in the bank account, and since I'm 25 I havent accumulated much yet.


 
Drawp, I do no think contacting anyone is a very good idea at the time. Since I have dealt with the US legal system several times in regards to divorce, I have found it better not to say anything unti you absultely have to. They just wind up using it against you in the end. Let her stew for awhile and as others have said, she will come to you at some point begging for a divorce. I like the idea of asking her for some money. At least all the money you invested in the marriage, even if it is small. Stay on the offensive and by no means talk to any US lawers or contact the US consulate. Just a way for them to start documenting things and it never seems to be in the husbands favor.

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## Davis Knowlton

^Disagree. The US Embassy doesn't care about your situation one way or another. They are just there to answer questions from US citizens. For what you want to ask, you probably don't even need to use your real name.

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## hawaiianbrian

Interesting that not one person asked him if there was any way that the marriage could be saved. I guess they all assumed there was never any love involved it was all a matter of lust/money grabbing/whatever! Happy Valentines Day!!!!

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## Davis Knowlton

4.5 months of marriage. Three visits to Thailand and two vacation trips. He's on the road most of the time working abroad. And her mates advise her to throw him under the bus, but get his money first. Hardly sounds like Cupid visited.

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## rickschoppers

> ^Disagree. The US Embassy doesn't care about your situation one way or another. They are just there to answer questions from US citizens. For what you want to ask, you probably don't even need to use your real name.


I guess if you give them no identifiers such as name or passport number or fill out any paperwork, you may be be right. I always thought you had to at least identify yourself as Americn somehow before using their services. I could be wrong, in which case, go for it. One of the things I have learned over time is to give as little information as possible since it always seems to come back and bite me in the ass somehow. Especially when it come to divorce law or a woman.

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## koman

> .
> 
> Anyways, what are my options here, I'm 25 and want to get this over with as soon as possible so I can continue with the rest of my life, however she is adamant that she will not sign it until she receives the money
> .


Why can you not  get on with your life just because you have a Thai gold digger wife looking for money?....which you state that you don't have.  If you have not accumulated any assets during the marriage, (which you also state)  then there is nothing (or very little) to split 50/50. (as per Thai divorce law)   She appears to be the one with the problem here.....it must be terribly frustrating trying to milk a farang that has no milk... :Smile:  

 She is sure to find another one soon because they arrive by the plane load on a daily basis bragging about how rich they are. Then she will be very anxious to give you a divorce, so she can tap into the next revenue stream.   It just takes a bit of patience....and a basic understanding of how greed works.
Play it smart; wait her out, and good luck to you... :01:

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## Davis Knowlton

^^Agree totally with giving out as little information as possible to authority figures of any ilk. I have, however, called Amcit services on a number of occasions, in different countries, and never been asked for documentation. Perhaps an American accent does it. I have just said that I was Mr. _____, American citizen residing in ________, and needed the following information. That was it.

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## harrybarracuda

Is she cute? If so, I am willing to take one for the team and pretend to be a rich farang to entice her into bed (as long as you pay the expenses of course, hidden video camera, etc.). You get the evidence you need to sue her for divorce, and I get my leg over.

I don't know why people complicate these things so much.

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## Davis Knowlton

^Good point. And a very kind offer.

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## BobR

You're right to be cautious, the last thing you want is to be married to a decent woman later and have this woman from hell show up.  I've seen this before; once their Thai girls friends tell them what they can "get" no one can tell them otherwise.  Their friends (of course) have no absolutely clue what they are talking about, or are flat out lying, but the idiot type of girls believe each others lies.

I am an American lawyer; suggest you get an official  and dependable answer, possibly from someone at the US embassy whether this marriage is recognized in the USA or not.  If it's not, (and I doubt if it is)  walk away and give her nothing.  If it is, you will need a good Thai lawyer, and that usually means one in Bangkok.

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## BobR

> Interesting that not one person asked him if there was any way that the marriage could be saved. I guess they all assumed there was never any love involved it was all a matter of lust/money grabbing/whatever! Happy Valentines Day!!!!


When I was practicing law, I always asked clients if they wanted to explore the possibility of saving the marriage, but there are some things that could never be "put behind" a couple.  Extortion is one of them. The last Thai one I heard about, the girl wanted 300,000 baht to leave and said if he tried to put her out she would hurt her own arm and tell the police he did it.  He hired 2 off-duty cops at a total cost of 20,000 baht for an hours work, they went to the house when he was at work and physically removed the woman and put enough fear into her that he has not heard from her since, but that was just a live in bar girl, not a marriage.

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## grasshopper

Dead simple. Just introduce her to some one you dislike immensely. Of course, you have to prime the pump by telling her that he is a wealthy schmuck, preferably from the south of the United Kingdom.

Suggestions, anyone?
 :mid:

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## bigneilo

> I was in a very similar position to you with my ex and her friends. Her reason for mistrust, or more to the point her friends, was because as they put it, I'm young looking and handsome and i'll sleep with lots of women. This sent my ex over the edge with all kinds of conspiracies.
> 
> Anyway, i would suggest not to divorce her just yet unless you're desperate to remarry, as she will be the one in the not too distant future begging you for a divorce so that she can marry another farang.


 
  thats exactly the advice i was going to give,  she will be more desperate than you to remarry.

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## Humbert

> ^^^^I've generally found the Amcit folks to be well-informed and helpful, if you are polite and can clearly articulate your situation and question. They might even be able to comment on Thai legal issues, although they may tell you they aren't allowed to. Good luck.
> 
> ^^Humbert. I don't think you are correct. My understanding is that a foreign marriage is not recognized by the US unless the marriage is registered with the US Embassy. I was married overseas, twice. In the first one, both the marriage (in Bangladesh) and the divorce (in Thailand), were registered with the Embassy. In the second (in the Philippines), the marriage was also registered with the Embassy. My understanding is that if they hadn't been registered, they would have had no legal standing in the US. In the first marriage, in which both my wife and I were US citizens, the marriage, although legal under US law, was not registered in a State, and it is the States which determine alimony, etc. As such, I simply drew up my own settlement, the wife and I split the stuff, and went on our way. When I married a second time, ten years later, the legality of the divorce held up with no problem. And the legality of the divorce held up as well when I retired so that my first wife couldn't touch my pension.


This is from the Citizens Services page of the US Embassy website:

"A legal marriage in Thailand consists of both parties registering their marriage in person with the local Thai Amphur (Civil Registry Office). The United States does recognize the validity of such a marriage. "

Before you register your marriage you have to pick up a form at the US Embassy which you have translated into Thai. You bring this to the Amphur when you register the marriage. This is part of the process of legally marrying a Thai national.

There is no mention of registering the marriage at the embassy.

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## Davis Knowlton

^I stand corrected. I would still call the Embassy, and see what impact this will have on a divorce, if any. It may mean that the US will recognize it as a legal marriage for visa purposes, but it may also have little impact on a divorce proceeding.

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## TizMe

> Is she cute? If so, I am willing to take one for the team and pretend to be a rich farang to entice her into bed (as long as you pay the expenses of course, hidden video camera, etc.). You get the evidence you need to sue her for divorce, and I get my leg over.
> 
> I don't know why people complicate these things so much.


I think by Thai law he could then also sue you.

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## TizMe

The only easy way to divorce in Thailand is if you both agree.

Then its just a matter of both going to the Amphur and paying a very small amount and then you are done.

Any other way is going to be messy and/or expensive.

So I think you need her to at least believe that she will be getting a decent payout after she signs. Tell her that you'll send her 20,00 baht per month for 2 years to give her a chance to get back on her feet.

If you then fail to keep your promise then there's not much she can do about it..

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## dirtydog

Ok, I have emailed PAPPA Law, they will reply.

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## Davis Knowlton

^Stay tuned. If they're like most lawyers, they will take a week to respond and say nothing. Glad the bill (I presume in free advertising) is going to our lord and master.

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## CaptainNemo

> Is she cute? If so, I am willing to take one for the team and pretend to be a rich farang to entice her into bed (as long as you pay the expenses of course, hidden video camera, etc.). You get the evidence you need to sue her for divorce, and I get my leg over.
> 
> I don't know why people complicate these things so much.


How about we all queue up for a go... scribble her number on a toilet door of an amenable hotel, and post the name and directions, and we can all give her a bell, at the very least you could get a print out of all her phone traffic between her and countless farangs, and say look judge, she's a right slapper  :Deal:  (4.5 months is hardly giving it a chance, though, is it? ...even if she is a nutter who believes in "pee").

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## drawp

thanks DD, looking forward to see their response

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## FailSafe

500K to get rid of her- that's getting off pretty light- if you've got the money and she's willing to sign the necessary paperwork, just be done with it and move forward with your life- by the time you finish with lawyers and the hassle of dealing with the process you're currently considering, 500K might look like a bargain.

As the old saying goes' "Do you know why divorces are so expensive?  Because they're worth it."

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## Jesus Jones

> Originally Posted by drawp
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Anyways, what are my options here, I'm 25 and want to get this over with as soon as possible so I can continue with the rest of my life, however she is adamant that she will not sign it until she receives the money
> .
> 
> 
> ...


Yup.  My ex was trying to divorce her old codger so that she could be with me, some young man-rod.  He made her life hell, but only a few months into the relationship with her i realized why.  She was a little kniving little biatch full of lies.

She wanted a divorce which i tried to help her with while but there was no success.  He knew what he was doing and played his cards right.  I'm glad i wasn't the next in line at the time.

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## Jesus Jones

> 500K to get rid of her- that's getting off pretty light- if you've got the money and she's willing to sign the necessary paperwork, just be done with it and move forward with your life- by the time you finish with lawyers and the hassle of dealing with the process you're currently considering, 500K might look like a bargain.
> 
> As the old saying goes' "Do you know why divorces are so expensive?  Because they're worth it."


Disagree, why should he have to pay her?  Unless he's desperate to remarry, drag it out she will be the one begging for divorce soon.

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## drawp

Well failsafe, the money isn't a problem, I could easily pay that if I'd like however why give her that final satisfaction?

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## FailSafe

> Well failsafe, the money isn't a problem, I could easily pay that if I'd like however why give her that final satisfaction?


It's not giving her 'that final satisfaction'- it's saving yourself the hassle of having to deal with her further and getting her out of your life asap- if the money isn't a problem and you could 'easily' pay it (and you're going to end up paying somebody- her, your lawyer, etc., not to mention the time you'll be wasting- you can make more money, but you can't make more time), just do it and get rid of her.

You've already put yourself in the position of going through your first divorce at the age of 25- it doesn't seem like smart decision-making as far as this woman is concerned is your forté.

Tell your buddies back home that you got out of a marriage for $17,000, and they'll be amazed.

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## nidhogg

> and finally, a stolen shoe dream (yes, wtf)
> 
> .


Sadly, been there.  Farking lethal things dreams for Thais.  

No other comments, but just to say, however "worth it" would not rush into paying.  Once you let her know you are even thinking about paying, demands will surely escalate.  

Maybe a few months of, OK, fuck it, we will stay married as I have no money will change her mind a tad.  

Oh, and lastly, any "deal" with a Thai seems to be permanantly open for negotiation -even when you consider the matter "agreed" and "settled" - they wont.

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## taffyapple

:cmn: drawp i think your cutting your own throat,you say you have no money,then post no44 says pay her 500k baht is not to be sniffed at,then you say the money is no problem take the advice given by most td.posters.

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## drawp

I think there's some misunderstandings, do I have thb 500k availalable at my immediate disposal, no.  I'm 25, while I'm out of the us I'm still paying back my student loans, and will be for quite some time.  I did have some savings, however that has been wiped out by vacations and trips that were requested by the missus.

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## Rigger

> Yup. My ex was trying to divorce her old codger so that she could be with me, some young man-rod


That right there would have been enough for most to tell that their new girl friend is a slag.

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## FailSafe

> I think there's some misunderstandings, do I have thb 500k availalable at my immediate disposal, no.  I'm 25, while I'm out of the us I'm still paying back my student loans, and will be for quite some time.  I did have some savings, however that has been wiped out by vacations and trips that were requested by the missus.


OK, then, that's a different story- when you said you could easily pay it, my first thought was just to do it and be done with it (I'm also an American, and I'm older than you and have had more experience with people of my generation getting divorced than you will have had at 25- the happiest guys are the ones who got it over with quickly and cleanly, even if they had to pay out some $- believe me, I'm on your side here).

Be prepared for some ugliness over the next year or two.

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## Norton

> I'm 25 and want to get this over with as soon as possible so I can continue with the rest of my life


All sorts of advice here from the board. Some good, some dodgy.

Doing nothing in hopes your wife will quickly settle for no payment.  This is OK but if your wife doesn't settle for nothing, waits you out  and after 3 years get's a lawyer and sues for divorce for reasons of  abandonment you will end up paying far more than a one time settlement  amount. Doing nothing for a few months to test the theory she will settle is OK.

If you want to get this behind you ASAP, best to come to a settlement as  Failsafe suggests. Everything in Thailand is negotiable. You should  not pay 500K but offer something far less. I would offer 200K. She of  course will not accept it. At some point you will reach an agreed to  amount but will be less than her 500k opening bid. 

Keeping in mind what nidhogg says about agreements with Thais, once you have agreed on a number, take the cash amount agreed with you, then take her to the Ampur to sign the divorce papers. Then and only then give her the cash. If she tries to up the amount agreed, walk away.

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## DrB0b

> Doing nothing in hopes your wife will quickly settle for no payment. This is OK but if your wife doesn't settle for nothing, waits you out and after 3 years get's a lawyer and sues for divorce for reasons of abandonment you will end up paying far more than a one time settlement amount.


He should be aware of the concept of "Sin Somrot". This is all property acquired after marriage other than personal property like clothes and property needed for pursuing a profession. This is divided 50/50 between divorcing spouces. For example, if he just waits, and waits, and then in say 5 years buys a house and gets a divorce one year later then his wife will automatically get half the value of the house.

There are 12 grounds for divorce in Thailand when one of the partners won't agree to divorce. 

As far as I'm aware Alimony (as opposed to child support) doesn't exist under Thai law but there have been a couple of recent court cases which may change that.

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## Thetyim

> I would offer 200K.


That works out at 50k baht per month for a 4 month marriage.
Offer her 60k baht (500baht per day) and  the offer expires in 28 days

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## taffyapple

:cmn: good advice bob lets hope he takes it,if he is desperate for pussy go somewhere else.

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## Norton

> Offer her 60k baht (500baht per day) and the offer expires in 28 days


OK. Sometimes a really low first offer is best. 500k is ridiculous for a 4 month marriage.



> Probably the easiest one in this case is desertion for longer than 12 months.


Thought it was longer but 12 months even more reason not to wait her out.

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## DrB0b

> Originally Posted by Thetyim
> 
> Offer her 60k baht (500baht per day) and the offer expires in 28 days
> 
> 
> OK. Sometimes a really low first offer is best. 500k is ridiculous for a 4 month marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually I was wrong about something there. There is 12 month clause but the action for divorce has to be instituted by the person who's been deserted.

*Section 1516*. Grounds of action for divorce are as  follows:

(1)  the husband has given maintenance to or honored such other woman as his  wife, or the wife has committed adultery, the other spouse may enter a claim for  divorce;

(2)  one spouse is guilty of misconduct, notwithstanding whether such misconduct  is a criminal offence or not, if it causes the other:

(a) to be seriously ashamed;  
 (b) to be insulted of hated or account of continuance of being husband or wife  of the spouse having committed the misconduct; or
  (c)to sustain excessive injury or trouble where the condition, position and  cohabitation as husband and wife are taken into consideration; 
the latter  may enter a claim for divorce;

  (3)  one spouse has caused serious harm or torture to the body or mind of the  other, or has seriously insulted the other or his or her ascendants, the latter  may enter a claim for divorce;

(4) one spouse has deserted the other for more than one year, the latter may  enter a claim for divorce;

 (4/1) one spouse had been sentenced by a final judgment of the Court and has been imprisoned for more than one year in the offence committed without any  participation, consent or in the knowledge of the other, and the cohabitation as  husband and wife will cause the other party sustain excessive injury or trouble,  the latter may enter a claim for divorce;

 (4/2) The husband and wife voluntarily live separately because of being unable to  cohabit peacefully for more than three years, or live separately for more than  three years by the order of the Court, either spouse may enter a claim for  divorce;

(5)  one spouse has been adjudged to have disappeared, or as left his or her  domicile or residence for more than three years and being uncertain whether he  or she is living or dead;

(6)  one spouse has failed to give proper maintenance and support to the other,  or committed acts seriously adverse to the relationship of husband and wife to  such an extent that the other has been in excessive trouble where the condition,  position and cohabitation as husband and wife are taking into consideration, the  latter may enter a claim for divorce;

(7) one spouse has been an insane person for more than three years continuously  and such insanity is hardly curable so that the continuance of marriage cannot  be expected, the other may enter a claim for divorce;

(8)  one spouse has broken a bond of good behavior executed by him or her, the  other spouse may enter a claim for divorce;

(9)  one spouse is suffering from a communicable and dangerous disease which is  incurable and may cause injury to the other, the latter may file a claim for  divorce;

(10)  one spouse has a physical disadvantage so as to be permanently unable to  cohabit as husband and wife, the other may enter a claim for  divorce.

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## Norton

> the husband has given maintenance to or honored such other woman as his wife, or the wife has committed adultery, the other spouse may enter a claim for divorce


This one always made me snigger. As I interpret, ok for husband to be adulterous but a no, no for the wife. :Smile:

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## drawp

Oh, I understand the property thing real well DrBob, as I was quite concerned regarding the US interest in this if any, for which I have not contacted the embassy as of yet (but this marriage does seem valid there).  My concern was mainly for her petitioning somewhat there (which would be hard without a visa, and without us, or me having any possessions/income there).


Agreed Norton, it seems that in the man's case he is okay just as long as he has not brought on a second wife, however the woman must only commit adultery.

I was thinking of honestly going with step 2, however I'm sure that would be hard to prove.  She did make quite a scene, which included assault (hit me a few times left some marks/bruises which I've documented, although its Thailand so no BiB presence, and I doubt a real lack of witnesses at this point, even though they seemed helpful after an hour or so of a shellacking) before I left Leung Nok Tha on Friday morning via bus to BKK.  This is the main reason honestly, which I did not include in the OP.  Her behavior towards me in terms of physical abuse (while only on a few occasions) is not something I wish to continue.

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## Norton

> I was thinking of honestly going with step 2, however I'm sure that would be hard to prove.


If you decide to go to court you're looking at a long drawn out affair which will not be cheap. Don't let your desire for revenge override the simplest way to end the marriage. An agreed settlement.

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## drawp

Well, thats what I was thinking too, just would much rather take this to the amphur sign the paper and be done with it.  Guess I have some negotiating to do

----------


## nidhogg

^ Start with 25K....

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## Davis Knowlton

Wait to see what DD's tame lawyers have to say. Don't do anything until then. All will become clear, grasshopper.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Originally Posted by hawaiianbrian
> 
> 
> Interesting that not one person asked him if there was any way that the marriage could be saved. I guess they all assumed there was never any love involved it was all a matter of lust/money grabbing/whatever! Happy Valentines Day!!!!
> 
> 
> When I was practicing law, I always asked clients if they wanted to explore the possibility of saving the marriage, but there are some things that could never be "put behind" a couple.  Extortion is one of them. The last Thai one I heard about, the girl wanted 300,000 baht to leave and said if he tried to put her out she would hurt her own arm and tell the police he did it.  He hired 2 off-duty cops at a total cost of 20,000 baht for an hours work, they went to the house when he was at work and physically removed the woman and put enough fear into her that he has not heard from her since, but that was just a live in bar girl, not a marriage.


There's a Grade 'A' prick in Udon who's just paid his missus 2 million to leave. The funny thing is, she's still there.

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## rickschoppers

I think I have said this before, DON'T GIVE ANY MONEY UNLESS FORCED TO BY LAW OR THE POSSIBLITY OF JAIL TIME.....

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## taffyapple

:cmn: if you both go to the district to sign papers make sure you take someone along with you better still if they could speak thai,because she wont turn up on her own she will have a few leaches with her havent you have any witnesses to the assault that would testify for you if you can get it in writing wont cost much to get it translated.

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## Thetyim

Tell her you weighing up your options and costs.
You have been offered a professional hit for 50k baht so would she like to reconsider her demands before you make a final decision.  :Smile:

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## drawp

I just spoke with ACS, they were pretty ugh about the whole thing.  I brought up two questions to them, one the legality of the marriage in the US and two) the extortion.

Their answer on legality is, its not really legal per se, as marriage is handled on a state by state basis (which is true), however it is legally recognized.  In order to make things legal, in the state I referenced (California), they would require the embassy to do a verification of the signature on the marriage license to confirm its authenticity.  So there are additional things required which the website does not list.

Regarding the extortion, he said he really couldn't comment in this case, I said what about bringing charges in the states, again, he pointed out that the marriage wasn't exactly legal and the lack of a presence of her in the US causes some issues.  

So in terms of helpfulness, not too much from them.  The Thai girl that I originally got on the phone was pretty much a b, she refused to answer any questions regarding the marriage in the states (or the marriage in general) and told me to contact an attorney.  I asked for a list of attorneys, and she said they don't provide that (which the American guy I spoke with said he did).

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## Davis Knowlton

^Oh well, guess my idea wasn't worth much. Pretty non-answer. Let's hope DD's lawyer is a bit clearer. Fucking Embassy - "it's legal, but it's not". Thanks, guys.

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## drawp

It was worth a shot, thanks for the idea Davis, you've been a great help so far.

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## wefearourdespot

> Interesting that not one person asked him if there was any way that the marriage could be saved


members of this forum are all wise men.

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## chitown

> Ok, I have emailed PAPPA Law, they will reply.






> ^Stay tuned. If they're like most lawyers,  they will take a week to respond and say nothing. Glad the bill (I  presume in free advertising) is going to our lord and master.


It seems you were right Davis. Wake me when the response comes in.... :Sleeping:

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## wefearourdespot

> "Do you know why divorces are so expensive? Because they're worth it."


This however doesn't explain why marriages are so expensive too  :mid:

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## wefearourdespot

> Anyways, what are my options here, I'm 25 and want to get this over with as soon as possible so I can continue with the rest of my life


Do you have any assets to recover in Thailand ? If not, why don't you simply stay away from the land of scams and forget everything ?

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## drawp

I have nothing at all in Thailand, the longest I've ever been there was 3 weeks.  We rented an apartment year round when we met that the wife stayed in while she hopped back and forth from here (Macau) and Thailand, but we stopped that in December.

I really have nothing in terms of property or anything else anymore.  I have a car in the US that I'm still paying on since I can't find a buyer, but thats it.  All of my stuff here in Macau is being rented, or paid for by the company I work for.

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## Humbert

> Their answer on legality is, its not really legal per se, as marriage is handled on a state by state basis (which is true), however it is legally recognized. In order to make things legal, in the state I referenced (California), they would require the embassy to do a verification of the signature on the marriage license to confirm its authenticity. So there are additional things required which the website does not list.


So she could contest the legality of the marriage in the state of California if she wanted to make an issue of it. She would have to provide evidence of the legality of the marriage obtained from the US embassy in Thailand. Do you think she would go through the trouble and expense to do this?

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## drawp

Of course not, but I was weighing my options about getting this tossed around in the US, but it seems that I can't really do anything there anyways, since I'd have to get it registered first, and then I'm sure there'd be issues with her lack of presence as well.  

A Thai friend I worked with in the states told me that her parents had to remarry in Nevada as their certificate wasn't recognized (this was quite some time ago), but it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case in a few states.

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## TizMe

If it was me, I'd offer her 20K baht. If she refused, then I'd hang up the phone and make absolutely no contact with her for a couple of months. Then ring her again with an offer of 15K.

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## Davis Knowlton

^That's actually a pretty good plan. Depending, of course, on what Pappa lawyers say, once they finish counting up billable hours and actually answer DD's query.

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## drawp

still no response from Pappa and Co, certainly appreciate them looking into this.

Anyways she seems to have backed off a bit from the demand of 500k baht (not much of a fighter it seems) and has lessened it at times.  Unfortunately I can't get back to Thailand until mid to late next month to sign any papers, but in any case, other than Pappa, does anyone have a recommendation on a lawyer or translation service who can provide some quick services at the amphur to ensure I'm not getting screwed over in anything I'm signing?

This will more than likely be in Bangkok or in Chonburi (more than likely Pattaya).

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## taffyapple

:cmn: dwarp  want do want to involve a lawyer for,it will cost you more than the settlement,why dont you listern to most of the advice let her stew for a while no need for you to hurry things,and you ask about translater services there is loads every where couple of hundred baht.

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## drawp

oh taffy I think you just misunderstood me; I don't want a lawyer for a settlement, just need someone there to translate and ensure I'm signing the right thing, but yeah a translator would work as well.

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## Seekingasylum

I'm not sure if our sponsor answered the Dog's query but for those of you who may be waiting with baited breath, yes the US does recognise marriage solemnised and contracted in Thailand as legitimate. 

Any so-called registration at the US embassy has no bearing and, in the American vernacular, is worth diddlysquat.

Marriage in Thailand has the same effect as if it were contracted in the US and therefore is not something to be entered into lightly.

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## rickschoppers

> I'm not sure if our sponsor answered the Dog's query but for those of you who may be waiting with baited breath, yes the US does recognise marriage solemnised and contracted in Thailand as legitimate. 
> 
> Any so-called registration at the US embassy has no bearing and, in the American vernacular, is worth diddlysquat.
> 
> Marriage in Thailand has the same effect as if it were contracted in the US and therefore is not something to be entered into lightly.


Not so sure you are right. If you only do an Isaan village wedding that is not documented at the amphur, how is the wife able to claim she is married to the US authorities? The village weddings I have seen are always performed by a non-licensed individual that would not hold water in an American court of law.

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## drawp

from what the ACS guy told me, it is somewhat recognized, but good luck in trying to do anything legal with it in the US without doing any sort of additional processing within your state.  The only thing he said that it could really do is stop you from marrying another individual stateside if someone really pushed it, but even he said that some states still may not recognize the Thai marriage.

As with marriages in a village, those aren't even recognized as valid even in Thailand, so of course they hold no weight in the US.

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## taffyapple

:cmn: drawp wait till you come back to thailand,then if you can arrange with your wife to go to the district office where you got married,have you a copy of the marriege cert.one in thai,one in english,if you come to an arrangment with your wife you will get a divorce cert.tell them you want 2copys,for yourself then go to any translater and get one done in english,i cant put it any plainer than that.

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## Seekingasylum

Custom marriages are not recognised. 

Marriages conducted by the Amphur ( what I meant by solemnised ) are recognised by the authorities in Thailand and therefore by the US.

The OP is married and if he is not to enter into a bigamous relationship with another he must first divorce his wife. 

Period.

Honestly, some of you guys are really a bit dense.

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## billy the kid

do what you tink is fair
don't take any shit
it is business after all.

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## Davis Knowlton

No big surprise that DD's tame lawyer is as fucking useless as all the rest of his kind. Fucker is advertising his services on TD, and can't answer ONE simple question in less than two weeks. Not much of an advertisement.....except that his service sucks.

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## rickschoppers

> Custom marriages are not recognised. 
> 
> Marriages conducted by the Amphur ( what I meant by solemnised ) are recognised by the authorities in Thailand and therefore by the US.
> 
> The OP is married and if he is not to enter into a bigamous relationship with another he must first divorce his wife. 
> 
> Period.
> 
> Honestly, some of you guys are really a bit dense.


Not quite as dense as others............you need to be a little more specific when you use a large word like this. Solemnized can mean a wedding ceremoney with witnesses which describes every village wedding I have been at. 
solemnizes 3rd person singular present;   solemnises 3rd person singular present;   solemnising present participle;   solemnised past tense;   solemnized past tense;   solemnizing present participle;   solemnized past participle;   solemnised past participle Duly perform (a ceremony, esp. that of marriage)Mark with a formal ceremony *Usage examples*

"There is no statutory bar to a member of the clergy declining to *solemnize* civil unions in accordance with sincerely held religious beliefs," Stuart Rabner wrote in an official letter.
Jan 11, 2007 -  Stuart Rabner -  ReutersSpitzer said local clerks should not issue marriage licenses to gay couples, and officials like Mayor Jason West of New Paltz "should not *solemnize* same-sex wedding ceremonies."
Mar 5, 2004 -  Eliot Spitzer -  Boston Globe (registration)*Web definitions*

observe or perform with dignity or gravity; "The King solemnized this day of morning"wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn perform (the wedding ceremony) with proper ceremonieswordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn make solemn and grave; "This ceremony solemnized our hearts"wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn To make solemn, or official, through ceremony or legal acten.wiktionary.org/wiki/solemnize solemnization - celebration: the public performance of a sacrament or solemn ceremony with all appropriate ritual; "the celebration of marriage"wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn Solemnization - Marriage is a social union or legal contract between individuals that creates kinship. It is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged in a variety of ways, depending on the culture or subculture in which it is found. ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solemnization solemnization - of marriage refers to the performance of a formal marriage ceremony before witnesses, as distinguished from a common-law marriage.justice.alberta.ca/programs_services/public_education/Pages/vocabulary.aspx

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## Thaihome

The marriage is indeed recognized in the US (and you dont register the marriage at the embassy).  If the OP had assets in the US obtained during the marriage and the wife was a resident in the US she could sue for divorce in that state and have the court give an equitable settlement, which could include alimony.  

As the OP has no such assets and is living in Macau and the wife is resident in Thailand, his only recourse is to try and get her to agree to a settlement in order for them to obtain in immediate divorce. His only other alternative is to catch her in committing adultery (or one of the other conditions) or wait the 3 years and claim they cannot cohabit.

Read b0bs post.  He got it correct.
TH

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## drawp

TH, you mention 3 years, is this some clause that if none of the 12 reasons as previously mentioned are  fulfilled you have to wait 3 years before filing in court (basically filing for divorce due to irreconcilable differences)?

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## Seekingasylum

Oh dear, I seem to have touched a nerve.

Mmmm, I suppose there may well be those out there who actually thought that my usage of _solemnised_ could have embraced what passes for a village marriage ceremony but for the life of me quite why anyone should is a mystery.To consider a motley collection of drunken, addled headed chickenheads congregating in one place whilst the significant parties refrain from any exchange of vows in a ritual presided over by a master of ceremonies with no standing beyond that of a deckchair attendant before a gaggle of mumbling monks only interested in a free breakfast as anything other than not solemnised is just plain daft.

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## yamaharr1

If you are not in a rush to get remarried then what is the rush to get divorced?

Why not just move don't tell her where you are going and after a year file for a divorce under abandonment, once the case hits the courts she sure will be looking for less money and like you said you travel a lot already so you aren't even around.

What happen with my brother is, she left and after a couple of years she filed for abandonment and the courts dissolved the marriage.

It was funny because they didn't know where to send the papers that a divorce proceeding was filed but once the divorce was final they sure knew were to deliver those papers.


IMHO, in the states or any half way decent country with a proper legal system, when you get a divorce they get a lot of cash, no matter what the reasons are the marriage has failed, don't you think she should be entitled to something to help get her back on her feet? I don't think 500k is all that much considering but 100k sure seems reasonable, after all you got married for some reason.

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## Seekingasylum

I  rather think the boy wishes to extricate himself without any consequences whatsoever.

Chap probably wears a silly baseball cap back to front and interjects the adjective, awesome, whenever he can to ensure some degree of interest in his otherwise undistinguished life.

Quite why he can't simply read websites like everyone else is a mystery but I suppose deductive logic isn't in his vocabulary.

Or, on the other hand, as you imply he is a mean minded little shit without any character or sense of honour.

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## rickschoppers

> Oh dear, I seem to have touched a nerve.
> 
> Mmmm, I suppose there may well be those out there who actually thought that my usage of _solemnised_ could have embraced what passes for a village marriage ceremony but for the life of me quite why anyone should is a mystery.To consider a motley collection of drunken, addled headed chickenheads congregating in one place whilst the significant parties refrain from any exchange of vows in a ritual presided over by a master of ceremonies with no standing beyond that of a deckchair attendant before a gaggle of mumbling monks only interested in a free breakfast as anything other than not solemnised is just plain daft.


Thegent, you are without question a haughty tomfool..... :kma:

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## Seekingasylum

How quaint. 

I shall put that down as a compliment, nevertheless.

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## Dick

But Drew Noyes is :

Drew Noyes- My biography

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## taffyapple

:cmn: yamaharr1 thinks give her 100k to get back on her feet shes on her back most of the time so she will want more than that.

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## Bettyboo

> Well, I'll make this simple, my marriage has failed due to trust issues.


How long have you been together? How much did she invest in the relationship (emotionally, financially, etc)? How much do you like her and wanna stay on good terms.

Been together a few months and she didn't put one dollar into the relationship, then tell her to fuk off... been together for 5 years, she sold some land to help you two get a place together and settle down, she moved from her Bkk office job to whereever at your request, etc, then settle things fairly for her losses...

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## drawp

Almost 2.5 years off and on.  As for land and what not, no she didn't sell anything off to enter this relationship.  She kept her job with her friend managing a restaurant/bar/lounge, and still maintains that job to this day.

In terms of everything, it was pretty much me investing my money and time into it.  I've given up a few opportunities for higher paying jobs back in the states so I could stay in this area and be close to her as well as pay for the apartment she stayed in back in Thailand when she was basically doing visa runs. Not once did she pay for any of the flights to here in Macau, or really anything in this relationship.  

With all of this is in mind, this is why I'm hesitant to give her anything as a parting "gift"

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## rickschoppers

Then like Bettyboo says, tell her to fuk off.............

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## taffyapple

:cmn: reading through the lines i think she realized you had fuck all.

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## Thaihome

> TH, you mention 3 years, is this some clause that if none of the 12 reasons as previously mentioned are fulfilled you have to wait 3 years before filing in court (basically filing for divorce due to irreconcilable differences)?


 
After 3 years living apart she does not have to agree to the divorce and the court will give you one.  

Doesn't appear to apply in your case but the property settlement is still another matter which would have to settled in court as well. 
TH

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## rickschoppers

> This stuff is horrifying


Facts of life in the LOS. Same old shit, different country.  ::chitown::

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## drawp

Okay.. so it looks like she finally gave in, and we are just going to go to the amphur to get it done, however her friends are in her ears again and keep telling her all sorts of different things on how we need to do this.

My understanding is that we just go to the amphur, get the papers signed, and the process is done.

her friends had said something about having to go to the MFA, is that necessary?

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## Larn

I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if I add stuff that doesn't apply to you.

If she's in agreement get her to the Umphur as soon as you can before she changes her mind.

If there's property, children etc involved have a financial agreement written by a lawyer that she agrees with prior to applying for the divorce. 

You need both wedding certificates and she must have an up to date ID card that matches the name, details etc on their computer. 

Make a few photocopies of your passport, entry stamp + her ID card and house card before attending the umphur.

If you don't have both wedding certificates make a police loss report and that covers the missing certificate. The police report is simple and shouldn't cost more than 10 or so baht to the police coffee fund.

If a financial agreement is needed take the lawyer with you to cover your bum. You will be asked if you understand the agreement before the Umphur official proceeds.

You'll need 2 witnesses so take a couple of friends altho witnesses can be obtained for a small fee at the Umphur.

If the Umphur is empty and things go smoothly you should be out of there a single man in under an hour. 

There's no need to involve the MFA.

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## DrB0b

> I haven't read the whole thread


So why did you reply? As a matter of common courtesy you should at least read the other replies before responding. Even if you'd just read the very first post you'd realize that your reply, stating the totally obvious, wasn't relevant to the discussion.

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## Larn

^ If you bother to read my reply I've included everything he needs to get his umphur divorce. 

A quote from his last reply 



> Okay.. so it looks like she finally gave in, and we are just going to go to the amphur to get it done

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## DrB0b

> If you bother to read my reply I've included everything he needs to get his umphur divorce.


Yes, we already know that. Who the eff you you to say "If you bother to read my reply" when you've already said you couldn't be bothered to read the 100 responses before your post?

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## Larn

Give it a rest Bob she’s caved in. The guy has to take his chance while he can and before her mates convince her to change her mind. He’s only in town for a short time. Why involve lawyers or wait out years if you don’t have to.

  Drawp I hope this is of help. It comes from personal experience and not just copied and pasted from some website. 

  It’s no use going to the Umphur if your documents aren’t in order. 

  You were only married a short time so the chances she didn’t update her ID to what she indicated on marriage registration are pretty high. Check she has updated her card. The Umphur will just tell her to go away and return with an updated card if she hasn't. I’ve seen it happen more than once.

  You need to take originals plus 2 x photocopies of your passport and arrival stamp. She needs original and 2 x photocopies of her ID card and House Card. 

  Take both original wedding certificates. The Umphur keeps these and hands each person their own Certificate of Divorce plus Khor Ror 6 Registration of Divorce once complete. An addendum stating any agreement details of the couple made on the written application will appear on the reverse of the Khor Ror 6.

  The official should suggest you make a few photocopies of the original Khor Ror  6 which will be officially stamped. Make a few each as it’s easier to do there and then rather than try to return and do it at a later date.

  The procedure at the Umphur is quite simple.  On arrival take a number, fill in the written application and wait for your number to be called. 

  An official will go through the application and take the original documents plus photocopies. They ask if you fully understand what is happening and what was written on the application.

  Once you agree the official types the paperwork while you wait. You will then go through the paperwork signing documents and having them witnessed. 

  Once that’s done, you will be passed on to the senior official who will check for typing or details mistakes in the paperwork before requesting more signatures from you. He may suggest you take the signed Khor Ror 6 and have photocopies made. 

On return he will place the official stamp on the photocopies. He will also hand you each a Certificate of Divorce. You each get to keep original Khor Ror 6 too.

  That should be it. All over and done with. 

P.S. Don't be surprised if she tries a last chance grab for cash when you reach the Umphur. Stand your ground.

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## DrB0b

> Give it a rest Bob she’s caved in.


You're awfully mouthy for somebody who couldn't even be bothered to read the thread, you must be yet another of those delusionists who mistakenly believe that other people are as interested in your verbal flatulence as you are.

BTW, wtf is an Umphur?

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## drawp

Thanks Larn for the advice, we acutally did get her ID updated the day after we married.  Unfortunately the ID situation in Thailand means she only has the yellow paper that says she doesn't physically have the card yet, but I guess that's as good as anything at this point.  

We do have all of the documents in order thankfully so hopefully this should be a breeze.  I didn't get out of this unscathed unfortunately, she did quite a number on my personal belongings this past week (cleaning lady let her in and she broke everything electronic, two laptops, two tvs, xbox, ps3, etc. ~10k usd in damage) when she came her to pick up the remainder of her things.  Maybe that's what she caved.. either way I'm glad to be finally getting this done.

----------


## nidhogg

> , she did quite a number on my personal belongings this past week (cleaning lady let her in and she broke everything electronic, two laptops, two tvs, xbox, ps3, etc. ~10k usd in damage) when she came her to pick up the remainder of her things. Maybe that's what she caved.. either way I'm glad to be finally getting this done.


Get the cleaning lady to go make a police report.  Useful ammunition if needed later...

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## Davis Knowlton

^My thoughts exactly. Take photos of the broken items with you, just in case it gets messy. Good luck to you Drawp. Sounds like you will be well rid of this bitch.

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## Fabian

> There's a Grade 'A' prick in Udon who's just paid his missus 2 million to leave. The funny thing is, she's still there.


My ex wanted 1 million at first but I laughed at her. After a bit of negotiation she just got a fraction of that.

Everyone is only talking about divorce in Thailand (at least on the three pages I have read) but the OP is living in Macao as I understand. So first thing should be looked into is if thai law applies. I was married in Thailand but german law applied.

----------


## king of uranus

> Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
> 
> 
> There's a Grade 'A' prick in Udon who's just paid his missus 2 million to leave. The funny thing is, she's still there.
> 
> 
> My ex wanted 1 million at first but I laughed at her. After a bit of negotiation she just got a fraction of that.
> 
> Everyone is only talking about divorce in Thailand (at least on the three pages I have read) but the OP is living in Macao as I understand. So first thing should be looked into is if thai law applies. I was married in Thailand but german law applied.


We were married in Thailand and we each had our own lawyers for a prenupt, with docs in both languages.

We plan to relocate to Thailand fairly soon and you guys have me worried if I didn't waste my money on lawyers! Anyway, LOS can't be worse that the US state we live in now.

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## Carrabow

> she did quite a number on my personal belongings this past week (cleaning lady let her in and she broke everything electronic, two laptops, two tvs, xbox, ps3, etc. ~10k usd in damage) when she came her to pick up the remainder of her things. Maybe that's what she caved.. either way I'm glad to be finally getting this done.


That stuff can be replaced, if she is capable of that. Your lucky she didn't cut off your jewels when she had the chance.

Now that is something to think about... :Confused: 

Why do you think Thai women always have that one big cleaver in the kitchen? It's their multi-tool.

----------


## drawp

I had one of the six law firms I contacted just for quotes re: interpretation services [at] the Amphur and one of them had the following in their reply as part of their service:




> legalize the divorce certificate with MFA of Thailand


Anyone know what this is about?  I thought all that was necessary was that you needed to go to the Amphur and have the papers signed.  Is this necessary if you get the document translated, or is it needed in all cases?

----------


## manpet

Thai civil code books 1--6 intresting information ,

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## Lorenzo

> Interesting that not one person asked him if there was any way that the marriage could be saved. I guess they all assumed there was never any love involved it was all a matter of lust/money grabbing/whatever! Happy Valentines Day!!!!


Saved for what? 

You some kind of kinky collector?

----------

