#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Farming & Gardening In Thailand >  >  Pond building questions for buadhai

## ChiangMai noon

The weather is rather clement up here today and I have the day off work so I have decided to embark on my pond building mission.

1st question.

How deep should I go?

----------


## JoGeAr

> How deep should I go?


I'd say that all depends on what you plan on keeping in the pond. 

Guppies - not deep, dolphins - deep !!

----------


## ChiangMai noon

ok, i have just googled it.

I want to build a koi pond, they recommend 1000 gallons of water and 4 or 5 feet in depth.




> KOI POND
> A koi pond is different from a water garden because koi limit the amount of plant life available to be grown. Simply put: koi eat some plants. A koi pond should also be larger because koi get quite large despite the size of the pond, it is recommended that a koi pond be no less than 1000 gallons in volume, the bigger the better. It also needs to have an area of the pond at least 3 feet deep, 4 - 5 may be better.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

Have you revisited BH's pond thread?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
do you have a link?

----------


## Dalton

> I want to build a koi pond, they recommend 1000 gallons of water and 4 or 5 feet in depth.


If you build a Koi-pond, you'll need to have a bio-filter as well, and a small pump to circulate the water.

----------


## buad hai

First piece of advice:

Forget Koi, they are voracious eaters and poo producers. Poo means nitrogen which is why Dalton is right; with Koi you're going to need a powerful filter. And, with Koi, you can forget about pond plants as they'll eat them all unless you have a special area for plants to which the Koi are kept from swimming.

Consider stocking your pond with Comets instead. Comets are a type of goldfish that look like small Koi, grow to six or eight inches and do not ordinarily consume plants or produce huge amounts of nitrogen.

These are Comets:



As for depth, I'd make most of the pond about two feet deep. You can make one are a bit deeper for easier emptying of the pond in case you need to pump the water out. Along the edges you can make some foot depth shelves on which to put potted pond plants.

This page has numerous photos of my pond under construction:

Pond Construction Photos

----------


## buad hai

Pond building thread:

https://teakdoor.com/building-in-thai...ds-a-pond.html

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> do you have a link?


Yes. ^

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
thanks, just re read the first 10 pages.

is it necessary to use concrete for the skirt.

I'd rather not if I didn't have to.

----------


## buad hai

> is it necessary to use concrete for the skirt.


It just adds stability to the edge. If you've got dry, hard soil, you can probably get away without it. But, if you've got the kind of pond where people will walk right up to the edge, it's probably best to build the concrete collar. Otherwise you can put rocks around the edge to keep people from standing there and causing collapse.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

We actually have plenty of sand and cement and my wife is quite adept at making concrete, so I'll follow your advice.
 :Smile:

----------


## buad hai

^Don't forget to take lots of photos....

----------


## kingwilly

> and my wife is quite adept at making concrete,


reds on the way

----------


## ChiangMai noon

we've just stared arguing about the bloody location.

i had a definite idea of where i wanted it, but that is very near our big bamboo cluster and I guess the thing will fill with leaves and debris in no time.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

I'm out of ammo with which to either green buad hai or red king willy.

would somebody mind doing it for me?

----------


## buad hai

> i had a definite idea of where i wanted it, but that is very near our big bamboo cluster and I guess the thing will fill with leaves and debris in no time.


She's right there. I had a big bamboo clump next to my pond on Saipan and ended up taking the thing out because of all the debris in the pond....

----------


## ChiangMai noon

have chosen the location now.

i am about to mark the outline with a length of hose.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

just another quick question before I embark on this disaster.

how deep was your concrete collar?
i can't find any reference in your thread.

----------


## Dalton

> would somebody mind doing it for me?


What's in it for me ??? I can do both  :Smile:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
green ok?

----------


## Dalton

^ can you be trusted ??  :Smile: 

You can so I see.. :Smile:   It's done just like you wanted, Green to KW and red to BH...Right.. :Smile:

----------


## buad hai

> how deep was your concrete collar?


It's about four inches thick. I put rebar in it, but you could probably leave that out if the concrete has plenty of gravel.

I'm gonna be offline for a while as I'm moving the computer to the new desk and I have to disconnect the router for a bit. Back by noon....

----------


## NickA

First things first, Noony, give the wife a spade and get her digging.

----------


## buad hai

I'm back. But, WTF, why do I have so many cables running all over the place?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

I'm already struggling here.

I have drawn the outline of the pond, but am failing miserably to make a nice channel for the concrete.

my dirt is very crumbly.

what tool did you use BH, my hoe is too wide.

----------


## buad hai

How wide is your ho?

The channel for the concrete can be 8 to 12 inches wide and about 4 to 6 inches deep. I used an ordinary Thai-style hoe. The blade is about six inches wide.

Maybe better to wet the soil and let is soak overnight and dig tomorrow? It might be easier to dig and shape right if the soil were moist.

No reason to be in a big rush...

----------


## Norton

> No reason to be in a big rush...


Being a new home owner, he is under the false perception the faster he goes the quicker he can relax and have nothing else to do. :Wink:

----------


## kingwilly

> No reason to be in a big rush...


this is CMN we are talking about....

----------


## buad hai

> faster he goes the quicker he can relax and have nothing else to do.


He must be younger than we are....

----------


## ChiangMai noon

sweating buckets here and feeling rather light headed.

might have a beer break.

----------


## Norton

> might have a beer break.


Guess that's the end of this thread for a few days. :Smile:

----------


## bkkmadness

> I want to build a koi pond, they recommend 1000 gallons of water and 4 or 5 feet in depth.


The bigger the better.




> have chosen the location now.


Hopefully in partial shade, and make sure there are no trees nearby that will drop leaves into your pond.  Also, if the concrete isn't sealed properly the roots may eventually work their way through it to get to the water.




> If you build a Koi-pond, you'll need to have a bio-filter as well, and a small pump to circulate the water.


As with all fish, it depends how you stock the pond/aquarium.  If you have a very low stock level then koi will survive just as easily as the common goldfish without a filter.  Likewise a pond stocked to the brim with goldfish will also need a bio filter. 

 A pump to circulate the water is always a good idea.  Ideally I would add a bio flter to your pond as well.  You can buy them or make them yourself very cheap.

The over the top need for filteration and UV lights and special care for Koi comes from the often snobby attitude of the expensive high grade Japanese Koi keeper and of course the manufacturers of specialist koi keeping equipment.  In reality, they are a carp just as the goldfish is and can be kept in much the same way.  

I guarantee you a 2 inch goldfish will produce pretty much just as much shit as 2 inch koi. :Smile: 




> Forget Koi, they are voracious eaters and poo producers. Poo means nitrogen which is why Dalton is right; with Koi you're going to need a powerful filter. And, with Koi, you can forget about pond plants as they'll eat them all unless you have a special area for plants to which the Koi are kept from swimming.


Koi are voracious plant eaters, but you can keep them in a planted pond with no problem, which my Dad has done for years in the UK. 

 If you have lilies (or any potted plants) you need to protect the roots, and if you have free growing bushy plants, then you need to have enough growing (these plants typically grow at a fast rate) so despite how much gets eaten the plant will never disappear from your pond and continue to thrive.  Much like a herd of cows can live on a field of grass, eating it all day, but will never completely clear the grass.

The only thing you really need to bear in mind with Koi is that they will eventually reach a large size, around 3 feet maximum.  It takes a long time though and by that time the fishkeeping bug will have got you and you'll want a bigger pond, so nothing much to worry about. :Smile:  





> These are Comets:


I can see about 5 Koi carp in this photo BH. :Smile:

----------


## buad hai

> I can see about 5 Koi carp in this photo BH.


Nope, they're all Comets. Purchased as such and that's what they seem to be. None of them have the broad head and whiskers that you see in Koi. And, they're three years old and haven't grown much, if at all, since we bought them. And, they do not eat the plants at all.

CMN, did you buy the liner yet? Figure out how to fill it? Going to put in some plumbing? Any waterfall or other feature? Decide how to power a pump?

You can keep Koi as Maddy describes, but before you decide, have a look at Hillbilly's thread: 

https://teakdoor.com/farming-and-gard...fish-pond.html

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> CMN, did you buy the liner yet?


no, but i've managed to dig something that looks like a trench for the concrete.

that's enough for me for today.

got to work tomorrow and sunday so shan't be doing anything else til Monday.

thanks for the fish advice madness and all the other stuff bh.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> Going to put in some plumbing?


i wouldn't know where to start, will ask the local building guys who did my house.





> Any waterfall or other feature?


yes, shall have a little waterfall.

----------


## buad hai

Take any photos?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
of course.

----------


## buad hai

Gonna post 'em?



Soon?

----------


## kingwilly

> ^ of course.


so where are they?

----------


## buad hai

> so where are they?


Don't bother him now, he's having a beer.

----------


## bkkmadness

> Originally Posted by bkkmadness
> 
> I can see about 5 Koi carp in this photo BH.
> 
> 
> Nope, they're all Comets. Purchased as such and that's what they seem to be. None of them have the broad head and whiskers that you see in Koi. And, they're three years old and haven't grown much, if at all, since we bought them. And, they do not eat the plants at all.


I can guarantee you 100% their are around 5 Koi Carp mixed in with your comets in that photo BH.

Comets are goldfish with longer fins, that's all.

Your Koi were mislabelled at the shop, the broader head and whiskers would have been bred out because they have not been bred in the 'pedigree' way. 
3 years and not growing much does not mean anything, apart from again pointing to poor breeding. 

 And they probably do eat the plants, just so little you hardly notice it.  As I said earlier Koi can be kept in a planted pond with no problem at all as long as the balance is right and they are well fed.

If you take a look at the three fish on the top left corner of your photo, you have (from left to right) one comet goldfish, and two koi next to it. A little bit to the right and lower down you have another koi (the one with the black marks on it).  Directly where the water falls into your pond I can see definitely another 1 koi (the yellow one facing us) and I would say with a 99% probabilty, another 2 koi as well but it's a little hard to tell because of the photo.

The other mix of fish appear to be common and comet goldfish. The goldfish have short fins, the comets have long fins.  Other than that, they look exactly alike.

----------


## buad hai

Never mind....

I'll stay out of this thread from now on.

Good luck cmn....

----------


## kingwilly

> Never mind....  I'll stay out of this thread from now on.


OI, no need to have a flounce because you and maddy disagree on one thing....

----------


## buad hai

I hate Issues because I hate arguments.

This thread has become and issues-type argument, so I'm out.

----------


## bkkmadness

Bloody hell Buadhai, I was only mentioning you had Koi in your pond.  I've kept and bred comets and koi for 15 odd years in the UK and sold them professionally for another 8-9 years.  Not trying to show off here, just saying I do know what I am talking about when it comes to identifying pond fish.

Stick that photo up on any pond forum, they will tell you exactly the same.

Now do come back to the thread, I'm sure CMN could do with your help.  You are far more useful than I when it comes to the practical side of building ponds which is the stage he is at now. :Smile:

----------


## bkkmadness

^^ It's not become an issues type argument you big girl's blouse, you bought some mislabelled fish and I hoped to help you out by re labelling them for you.  It's hardly even an argument really, you have Koi carp in your pond and that's all there is to it.

I actually thought you might be pleased to know about this?  :Confused:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> you have Koi carp in your pond and that's all there is to it.


are you sure about that madness, look like Taiwanese taggleback rimpiddlers to me.

----------


## DrAndy

Those are the best fish to buy CMN

as for Koi, I like them and they are worth every baht of plant food

how big is you pond now?

----------


## bkkmadness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(goldfish)

Comet Goldfish

Red Comet 



Sarassa Comet 



Red and White Comets in a Pond

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
those bottom ones are koi.
 :Smile:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> how big is you pond now?


it's an off circle shape with bits going in and out.

not sure about the size, 3.5 metres across by 3 maybe??

might actually make it a little larger.

----------


## bkkmadness

^^ Piss off.  :Smile: 

^ CMN in my experience many people make a pond and then find it too small later.  It may start off seeming like a lake, but one day you may very well see it as a puddle and wish you had built it bigger when you had the chance.

So if you are thinking of making it larger, then do so now. 

The bigger the pond is, the easier it is to keep the water balanced and the fish healthy. The fish will also grow faster.

----------


## kingwilly

oh goodness, are you actually working again after having had a beer break? :surprise:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
nope, I'm going to make it bigger on Monday and Tuesday.

----------


## kingwilly

so where are the bladdy pics then poster boy?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> so where are the bladdy pics then poster boy?


i prefer to post pictures in batches.

right now, i only have a few.
i shall wait till it's developed slightly.

----------


## BosseO

I'm sure that Dalton is the best guy to consult when it comes to filtering.

My thoughts though. Cleaning  filters shouldn't normally be done and doing it every six week will just leave you with a mostly mechanical filtering of the water. It is like this, when setting up a filter it takes about six weeks before the filter will work biologically. 

Biologically means that a bacteria build up in the filter will  transform nitrite (very poisonous to fish) into nitrate (not poisonous in a moderate amount)  and also reduce nitrate and remove ammonia (poisonous).  A good supply of healthy plants in the pond will also reduce the nitrate.

So, never clean the filter, and if you absolute must do it, it should be carefully done using the water from the pond to avoid killing the bacteria. A healthy working filter smells of fresh earth.

A solution is to use a prefilter that removes the dirt and can be cleaned regularly leaving the main filter working for years. With very little nitrate and no ammonia the algae will not thrive. A darker bottom in the pond will also reduce the algae growth. A small amount of Chlorine salt can actually help with reducing nitrite (should be 0) and ammonia.

The correct balance between amount of fish, plants and filter capacity will make a healthy pond.

----------


## bkkmadness

^ As far as I can see 100% correct advice.

A good biological filter and a wealth of plants gives you the perfectly balanced pond.

BosseQ must be part of the fishkeeping fraternity.

One day you will also join these hallowed grounds CMN.  Well done for joining the hobby! :Smile: 

Now I have to pm Buadhai and make sure he doesn't hate me. :Sad:

----------


## Dalton

> Now I have to pm Buadhai and make sure he doesn't hate me.


He'll be to scared to open the PM...It could be explosive... :Smile:

----------


## Dalton

> My thoughts though. Cleaning filters shouldn't normally be done and doing it every six week will just leave you with a mostly mechanical filtering of the water. It is like this, when setting up a filter it takes about six weeks before the filter will work biologically.


The bio-filter shall only be cleaned when the Nitrate (NO3) reading is getting to high, over 100mg/L. However only clean 1/3 of the bio-filter so the remaining bacteria can reproduce.





> Biologically means that a bacteria build up in the filter will transform nitrite (very poisonous to fish) into nitrate (not poisonous in a moderate amount) and also reduce nitrate and remove ammonia (poisonous). A good supply of healthy plants in the pond will also reduce the nitrate.





> Biologically means that a bacteria build up in the filter will transform nitrite (very poisonous to fish) into nitrate (not poisonous in a moderate amount) and also reduce nitrate and remove ammonia (poisonous). A good supply of healthy plants in the pond will also reduce the nitrate.


All correct, but if you have to many plants, then you might need to ad some kind of aeration at night-time, depending on your stocking density of fish.





> A solution is to use a prefilter that removes the dirt and can be cleaned regularly leaving the main filter working for years. With very little nitrate and no ammonia the algae will not thrive. A darker bottom in the pond will also reduce the algae growth. A small amount of Chlorine salt can actually help with reducing nitrite (should be 0) and ammonia.


Depending on stocking density again, I don't think he will need more than just a simple bio-filter. Talking about Nitrite level, one of my systems has 5ppm of Nitrite in it all the time, but the fish don't die, due to the level of salinity a pH at 7 and a DO at 10, so it's all depending of how you run the system and the other water-parameters.

----------


## Loombucket

It starts to sound most interesting CMN. I would agree with all the suggestions, so far. Why not make the pond a little deeper at the point where the waterfall drops. This will give you an interesting current.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> It starts to sound most interesting CMN. I would agree with all the suggestions, so far. Why not make the pond a little deeper at the point where the waterfall drops. This will give you an interesting current.


i have just got back from work and tried to visualise it.

i've started to think it's quite a lot too small, not just depth but size.

i might go out a metre in every direction.
 :Sad: 

i expect this to take me six months to complete, i'm crap at making stuff.

if i hired my building blokes, they'd have it done by tuesday but i really want to do it myself.

----------


## Dalton

I thought it was the Scottish who were tight with the green... :Smile:

----------


## dirtydog

> i've started to think it's quite a lot too small, not just depth but size.


My pond is 50 meters by 10 meters, at 4 to 5 meters deep though it wouldn't do well with plants, think big when you build a pond  :Smile:

----------


## Dalton

^ If CMN has to dig that size pond out by hand, then he'll die of age before it's done... :Smile:

----------


## kingwilly

> ^ If CMN has to dig that size pond out by hand, then he'll die of age before it's done...


yes but it will still be worth a dozen century threads in the making...

----------


## Dalton

^ 555555 I should green you for that one, but it's against my principles   :Smile:

----------


## tsicar

> ^^ It's not become an issues type argument you big girl's blouse, you bought some mislabelled fish and I hoped to help you out by re labelling them for you. It's hardly even an argument really, you have Koi carp in your pond and that's all there is to it.
> 
> I actually thought you might be pleased to know about this?


some of the fish in the pic are DEFINITELY koi

----------


## tsicar

quote]

All correct, but if you have to many plants, then you might need to ad some kind of aeration at night-time, depending on your stocking density of fish.
quote]

Talking about Nitrite level, one of my systems has 5ppm of Nitrite in it all the time, but the fish don't die, due to the level of salinity a pH at 7 and a DO at 10, so it's all depending of how you run the system and the other water-parameters.[/quote]




the salt will be lowering the nitrite level. without it it would be much higher. the high ph level can help, but has a detrimental effect on ammonia toxicity: there are two kinds of ammonia present in a system, one more toxic to fish than the other, and at higher ph, the ratio of toxic to non toxic ammonia is higher. rather fix your biofilter and get the nitrites down, your fish will be stressed at these levels and this will probably affect your fcr, plus make them more susceptable to disease. 

plants produce oxygen during the day, and use some during low light levels:
they use far less oxygen at night than they produce during the day, and the long hours of bright sunlight in thailand will mean that they will constantly add to the oxygen level in the water. the plants will add aesthetic appeal to the pond, produce shelter for the fish, provide some food , aid in filtration and provide an area for breeding. plant lillies for shade and plant oxygenating, fern-like plants for water quality improvement. a perfect balance of plants and fish will result in a healthy, algae-free pond.

----------


## Dalton

^ If you have the right stocking density and if your water-parameters are as they should be....Hard to tell at this point... :Smile:

----------


## tsicar

> ^ If you have the right stocking density and if your water-parameters are as they should be....Hard to tell at this point...


as you said: everything has to be in balance. better to err on the safe side, then work up from there.
remember, this is not a commercial operation- rather somethimg that adds appeal to the garden, so i would say that a system that emulates nature would add more appeal, but it is important to get the right balance or the stench of rotting fish will spoil the effect.............

----------


## Norton

For mine I will use this site as a guide along with some of the suggestions from members.  Seems to cover things pretty well.

Google Image Result for http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/how-to-install-a-water-garden-pond-17.jpg

----------


## mellow

^ There are some good pond forums out there if you Google that, such as Koiphen.com, if you don't try to register you can cruise the forum. Once you try to register you wont be able to, until you dump their cookies. It takes a while for them to get back to you. Lot of good stuff there about all types of ponds.

----------


## mrsquirrel

So this is the famous thread.

What a silly billy old BH is.

----------


## Butterfly

^ yeah, he forgot to take his meds and went ballistic  :Smile:

----------


## Lite Beer

Er   Whats happened to the pond?   I was following this.

----------


## Nawty

If he built it, they will come.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> Er Whats happened to the pond? I was following this.


oh yes, sorry.

I'll do some pictures later.

----------


## Dalton

Did it take you this long to get sober... :Smile:

----------


## kingwilly

> Er Whats happened to the pond? I was following this.


https://teakdoor.com/members-only/302...-you-been.html (Caught wanking, have you been?)






> oh yes, sorry.  I'll do some pictures later.


you had better bladdy well not!

----------


## bkkmadness

Come back Buadhai.  

 :sexy:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
now, you are here, I'd like to ask a question.

there are these fish that we are going to put in the pond.
I think they are comets but my wife is adamant that they are koi.

How can you tell tham apart?

----------


## Scooter

Is your pond finished?
I was going to bring you some fish round later. :Smile:

----------


## Lite Beer

Yes. Did you finish it ok.  Were there any unexpected problems?

----------


## Norton

> Yes. Did you finish it ok. Were there any unexpected problems?


Only a minor setback.  Someone caught him stroking the chicken last night. :Smile:

----------


## Lite Beer

Quite clearly the pond was not finished.
A shame as I have read all of Buadhais thread and am thinking of making one. It would have been helpful to know how CM N got on but he does not want to share his experience. Never mind.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
of course i want to share, i'm a lazy bastard I have also been fairly busy.

finished digging it last week, it's a nice size actually.

around 3 feet deep at the centre.

we had lots of sand, cement and stone left over so i went ahead and made my pond a concrete one without thinking.
finished it yesterday but i've been checking the internet and the lime from the cement is poisonous.

doh.

what's the best way to treat it, is it likely to leak given the iffy quality of my concrete mixing.

am i better off just lining it with pond liner on top of the concrete?

help much appreciated.

and don't nag me for pictures, i'll upload some tomorrow, promise.
too lazy to do it right now.

----------


## NickA

Put some water in it, eat some beans, sit in it and you've got your own eco-friendly organic jacuzzi.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> Quite clearly the pond was not finished.
> A shame as I have read all of Buadhais thread and am thinking of making one. It would have been helpful to know how CM N got on but he does not want to share his experience. Never mind.


wouldn't happen to know our dearly departed would you?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

no advice??

oh well, guess i'm a bit of a boy crying wolf.

this was hard work.

here are the pictures of the completed pond being filled this morning.

not sure about the colours.

the first shelf is about a foot deep and the bowl in the centre about 3 feet.
we'll put lots of plants on the outside shelf i guess.


we are filling it now.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

it's about 4 metres by 4.

biggest problem was when i dug the initial collar, there was a drop of about 8 inches from top to bottom.

looked flat enough when i started.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

crap thread sorry.

i'm too lazy to upload pics and too lazy to build a pond in less than 2 months.

----------


## JoGeAr

Decent looking fish pond there, CMN. Well done !!

----------


## NickA

How much did you pay the workers?  :Smile:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

dogs are in it at the moment.

still waiting for a response about treating the lime in the cement.

would have been easier just to line it.

according to websites you need to fill, empty, re-fill for about 6 weeks if you don't treat it.

then you need to use a single goldfish as a guinea pig.

if it floats to the top, you can't put more in.

this was never meant to be a fish pond building thread sureme a la buadhai.
can't compete with that.

only opened it to ask for help.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> How much did you pay the workers?


zilch, zero.
nada....
most cynical.

will admit my wife did most of the concrete mixing.

it never would have got finished if i hadn't quit the booze.

----------


## NickA

> then you need to use a single goldfish as a guinea pig.


Richard Gear eat your heart out :rofl: 






> will admit my wife did most of the concrete mixing.


I always make my wife do a bit of the work and make sure I take a piccy too, just in case some nasty person decides to report me. Well, that is my excuse anyway.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> I always make my wife do a bit of the work and make sure I take a piccy too, just in case some nasty person decides to report me. Well, that is my excuse anyway.


after the house building that she supervised, she became pretty adept at mixing concrete.

pasting it on was an easy job.

she actually used the base of the pool as the mixing bowl.

thought that was quite clever.

anyway, how to treat the lime?

----------


## Thetyim

> then you need to use a single goldfish as a guinea pig.


Concentrate
Don't do it the other way around

----------


## NickA

We use ready mixed stuff, you know just add water, but we've only done small jobs.

Lime? Isn't there some chemical you can stick in to treat it?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

Treatment

The pool may be treated by filling it with water containing alum (a salt comprising a double sulphate of aluminium and potassium) in the proportion of 1 kg of alum to 500 litres of water. After one week it should be emptied and refilled with water containing 1 kg of Epsom salts per 500 litres and again allowed to stand for a week.
from a website about ponds.

*"Finally, the pool should be emptied and refilled with clean water, then emptied again and refilled after one week. Fluoridated water should then be conditioned prior to stocking with fish.

Once the pool has been stocked and plant life established, it should not be disturbed for at least a year, except for occasional topping-up with fresh water.

Initially, the water may become cloudy, but this cloudiness should disappear again as the plant and fish life in the pond settle down."*

soundsa like a balls ache.
 :Sad:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

^
I have no idea how many litres my pond has in it.

how do i work that out?

----------


## NickA

^I don't know much about ponds, but couldn't you have just dug a hole and stuck some water in it? I mean that's what normal ponds are.

----------


## NickA

> I have no idea how many litres my pond has in it.  how do i work that out?


Fill it with water and then collect all the water into bottles and see how many bottles you've got. 

There may be a simpler answer, but I reckon that will be fun. :Smile:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> ^I don't know much about ponds, but couldn't you have just dug a hole and stuck some water in it?


don't think so.

surprisingly, it's nearly full now.

doesn't look like it's leaking yet.

the dogs are loving it.

----------


## NickA

^A more serious answer... guess, measure or maybe you can buy some sort of water meter to stick on the end of your hose.

----------


## Thetyim

> I have no idea how many litres my pond has in it.
> 
> how do i work that out?


About 5000 litres

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> About 5000 litres


thanks.
how did you work that out?

from my estimated dimensions?

dreading the water bill, if it needs re-filling too often.

----------


## Travelmate

wow it has only taken you a month to get to this stage. Impressive work.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> wow it has only taken you a month to get to this stage. Impressive work.


closer to 2.
 :Sad:

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> wow it has only taken you a month to get to this stage. Impressive work.
> 
> 
> closer to 2.


still it what we call "Dedication". What have been all too easy to back fill it and create a patio......

----------


## kingwilly

> it never would have got finished if i hadn't quit the booze.


not again... gonna start another thread about it?




> soundsa like a balls ache.


lazy git.





> I have no idea how many litres my pond has in it. how do i work that out?


well, 

volume=surface area of the base mulitplied by the average height...

----------


## NickA

^it's just working out the surface are of the base and the average height that anuudlwyn needs to learn now :Smile:

----------


## DrAndy

> then you need to use a single goldfish as a guinea pig.
> 
> .


 
I like mixed metaphors

do you have any?

lots of plants around the edges and some in the water are nice

----------


## DrAndy

> soundsa like a balls ache.


 
Is this one?


it is very difficult to work out the volume of a shape like your pond, so just assume 5000 litres

----------


## Lady Hawk

Great work Cmn. so now you have to build a six foot fence to stop the dogs jumping in,or use it as a dog bath  :Smile:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> Great work Cmn. so now you have to build a six foot fence to stop the dogs jumping in,or use it as a dog bath


I'm hoping that once we add plants to the pond edge they will get the idea.

got a pic of me bathing in it too.
 :Smile:

----------


## Lady Hawk

> got a pic of me bathing in it too.


Go on post it i dare you

----------


## jizzybloke

> got a pic of me nearly drowning in it too.


I'd rather see that one! :Smile:

----------


## Dalton

> The pool may be treated by filling it with water containing alum (a salt comprising a double sulphate of aluminium and potassium) in the proportion of 1 kg of alum to 500 litres of water. After one week it should be emptied and refilled with water containing 1 kg of Epsom salts per 500 litres and again allowed to stand for a week. from a website about ponds. "Finally, the pool should be emptied and refilled with clean water, then emptied again and refilled after one week. Fluoridated water should then be conditioned prior to stocking with fish. Once the pool has been stocked and plant life established, it should not be disturbed for at least a year, except for occasional topping-up with fresh water. Initially, the water may become cloudy, but this cloudiness should disappear again as the plant and fish life in the pond settle down." soundsa like a balls ache.


Forget all that crap, do you have a banana tree ??? If so then chop it up and put in the pond for 3 to 4 days, pump the water out and fill new in, check the pH and you're ready to go. That's how we do it with our tanks, no problems..

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> check the pH and you're ready to go


how?

and what am i looking for?

----------


## Thetyim

Swimming Pool shop
Ph testing kit

----------


## Thetyim

> Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon
> 
> got a pic of me nearly drowning in it too.
> 
> 
> I'd rather see that one!


Help is at hand

Coaching Dwarf Swimmers

----------


## NickA

> how?  and what am i looking for?


Drink the water and see if you die or have any nasty disease. If not, it's probably OK for the fishies.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> alum


San som in Thai (thanks Thetters).

Available in most markets and is dirt cheap. I now use it in my wash.

----------


## Thetyim

I was just looking that up and San Som is Potassiun Alum and not Ammonium Alum so it should be Ok to use it.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

thanks guys.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> San som in Thai (thanks Thetters).
> 
> Available in most markets and is dirt cheap. I now use it in my wash.


kind of wish i hadn't redded you now, but don't feel that bad about it.
sure I'll be getting plenty back.

----------


## Thetyim

> I now use it in my wash.


Does it work OK, I have never tried it in the washing machine ?

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> Does it work OK, I have never tried it in the washing machine ?


I put too much in to start with, but I now put a very small lump (just chip a bit off) in and let the wash soak for an hour. It works very well. No more smelly pits on my clothes.




> sure I'll be getting plenty back.


Sure you will.

----------


## Loombucket

Nice looking pond CMN, I can't wait to see it with some fish. Do you have any ideas about the waterfall. This will be a project for me, when I get there.

----------


## tcp

How did you manage to get your pond to look so natural?

----------


## Dalton

> Originally Posted by Dalton
> 
> check the pH and you're ready to go
> 
> 
> how?
> 
> and what am i looking for?


 
Oh God..... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> How did you manage to get your pond to look so natural?


another sarcastic bastard.
 :Smile: 

it's not finished yet is it.

looks like a paddling pool at the moment i know.

we shall decorate with plants and waterfalls and stones and stuff.





> Oh God


i dunno, pregnancy test kit?

----------


## Dalton

^ Oh God.... :rofl:

----------


## ChiangMai noon

that's the only acid test kit I've ever bought.

haven't studied chemistry in 20 years.

simple answer bastard.
where do i get a ph kit (sure 7-11 doesn't have them ) and what am i looking for when i find one?

----------


## Travelmate

> that's the only acid test kit I've ever bought.
> 
> haven't studied chemistry in 20 years.
> 
> simple answer bastard.
> where do i get a ph kit (sure 7-11 doesn't have them ) and what am i looking for when i find one?


I expect to find them at the local fish shops.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> I expect to find them at the local fish shops.


hadn't thought of that.
thanks.
 :Smile:

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Travelmate
> 
> I expect to find them at the local fish shops.
> 
> 
> hadn't thought of that.
> thanks.


no problem just helping out a fellow TD member. :Smile:

----------


## NickA

> looks like a paddling pool at the moment i know.


Should be like an Olympic swimming pool for you then :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## ChiangMai noon

just walked up to my local shop and they were selling that san som stuff.

bought 5 bags, probably a couple of kilos and chucked it in the pool.

how much is enough?

----------


## Thetyim

^
That will be enough

----------


## kingwilly

> just walked up to my local shop and they were selling that san som stuff. bought 5 bags, probably a couple of kilos and chucked it in the pool. how much is enough?


You know, it may be easier and quicker to ask the seller these sort of questions rather than racing back to TD everytime...

----------


## Travelmate

This pond building lark is getting technical.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> You know, it may be easier and quicker to ask the seller these sort of questions rather than racing back to TD everytime...


the seller is like this 70 year old woman that thinks i'm going to use it to wash my clothing.

----------


## jandajoy

My wife just put a sack of the stuff in our well. She says it'll make it smell nice! 
Will we die?

She kept a small lump to use as a deodorant.

I've never come across the stuff before. What does it do?

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> That will be enough


thanks thetyim.

how long should I leave it to soak before emptying and refilling?

----------


## kingwilly

^^^ in that case just guess,

oh, you did already.

----------


## Thetyim

This is what a Ph testing looks like.
You only need the smaller kit

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> oh, you did already.


redded for trolling my thread.

----------


## Travelmate

> My wife just put a sack of the stuff in our well. She says it'll make it smell nice! 
> Will we die?
> 
> She kept a small lump to use as a deodorant.
> 
> I've never come across the stuff before. What does it do?


Be very afraid....

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> This is what a Ph testing looks like.
> You only need the smaller kit


thanks, but i still don't know what sort of ph reading i need for a fish pond as opposed to a swimming pool.

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Thetyim
> 
> This is what a Ph testing looks like.
> You only need the smaller kit
> 
> 
> thanks, but i still don't know what sort of ph reading i need for a fish pond as opposed to a swimming pool.


Google it....

----------


## Thetyim

> She says it'll make it smell nice!


Except that it is odourless  :Smile: 



> I've never come across the stuff before. What does it do?


It is the finest deodorant in the world
Wet the crystal slighty and rub in your armpit.
Might have to remove sharp edges with sandpaper first
(The crystal not your armpit)

----------


## jandajoy

*Maintain Water Quality
*Fishes need clean chemical free water to survive healthy. Some make sure the water that you fill-up the pond with, is free from chemicals like chlorine. If so, filter the chlorine out before using it. In addition make sure that you do not use chemical sprays near the pond. Spray droplets can spread through air and easily enter the pond water. You can plan on keeping the pond surface walls elevated to prevent run-off water from entering the pond. Run-off water generally contains fertilizers, dry leaves and pesticides that can pollute the water. 

Keep checking the pH of your pond water using a pH monitor to ensure that the pH remains in the safe range of 6.8 - 7.8. Drastic changes to pH should be adjusted gradually as sudden pH change can cause damage to the fish. Ensure that ammonia and nitrite content in water is zero. Regular monitoring and adjustment of pond water is extremely essential to keep it clean and safe.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> Google it.


I did, but couldn't find the answer.

much better to have all the advice contained within this thread i think.

----------


## jandajoy

http://www.abcponds.com/pond-maintenance/fish-pond-maintenance.htm

forgot this bit.

----------


## ChiangMai noon

> the pH remains in the safe range of 6.8 - 7.8


why use google when somebody else is willing to do it for you.

----------


## Thetyim

Koi are quite tolerant of various pH levels. However, it is recommended that the pH not fluctuate too greatly, and not be lower that 6.8 or higher than 8.0.

----------


## kingwilly

> redded for trolling my thread.


Jaysus, you are a cantankerous git today...




> Google it....


careful you'll get redded for that!

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by jandajoy
> 
> the pH remains in the safe range of 6.8 - 7.8
> 
> 
> why use google when somebody else is willing to do it for you.


good point.. obviously you know a thing or two about TD members

----------


## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon
> 
> redded for trolling my thread.
> 
> 
> Jaysus, you are a cantankerous git today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the difference is I offer worthy sensible advice. all worth a thousand greens

----------


## Dalton

> simple answer bastard. where do i get a ph kit (sure 7-11 doesn't have them ) and what am i looking for when i find one?


Oh God.. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 





> I expect to find them at the local fish shops.


Smart guy.. :Smile: 





> hadn't thought of that. thanks.


Bingo... :Wink:

----------


## DrAndy

> Koi are quite tolerant of various pH levels. However, it is recommended that the pH not fluctuate too greatly, and not be lower that 6.8 or higher than 8.0.


 
how about Comets?

----------


## Gerbil

Our pond just sort of maintains itself. Just needs the occasional top up of well water if it's the dry season. Fish thrive quite happily (just need to scoop out the occasional floater) - Oh we do pump the 'water' out and replace it when it reaches the consistency of chicken soup. None of this PH testing bollocks though.

----------


## Thetyim

> how about Comets?


They suffer from metal fatigue and were taken out of service in 1954

----------


## DrAndy

Thanks Thetyim

----------

