#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Doing Things Legally >  >  Legally purchasing/owning a gun in Thailand?

## brouhaha

What are the laws regarding the _legal_ purchase and ownership of a gun (handgun) in Thailand? Is it possible and if so what is the law? Any special laws regarding carrying the gun? Thanks in advance for your input.

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## baldrick

this is a question for the " Americans in Thailand " subforum

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## brouhaha

555 

Mods can move it at their pleasure.

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## FailSafe

I just looked into it- there was no way I could buy one in my name, so the wife got one in hers (her father transferred one of his guns over to her, which simplified the process)- the permit she has isn't for carrying, but for home storage and transportation in the car from the house to a gun range.

Note that anything decent you might want to buy (Glock 19, Beretta 92F, CZ75, etc.) is going to cost you around 100K all-in.

Used .38s are still really pricey- it's the government's way of controlling the legal market.

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## dirtydog

For a Thai or a farang? For a Thai they are entitled to own a gun for home protection and the license is just a formality, have to be on the house papers for a year, have to own valuable possessions, no major criminal record, if I remember rightly the license is done in 4 parts, first you need a guarantor, village chief or whatever, then you can get the first paper, this entitles you to arrange purchase of a gun, once you have found the gun you like they will give you a paper with their details and the gun details, then you go back and get the second paper so you can buy it, once bought you then need a third paper so you can keep it in your home, then there is the fourth which I can't remember what that is.

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## brouhaha

Sorry, I neglected to say for a falang.

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## dirtydog

You would need to be resident in Thailand, ie if you have to do visa runs you are not going to get a license, licenses are for life, easiest is get it in your wifes/girlfriends or maids name.

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## superman

If you take up permanent residency a farang can own one, from my understanding.

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## brouhaha

And the license is tied to a specific gun?

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## dirtydog

^Yes, but other guns can be added.

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## guyinthailand

> I just looked into it- there was no way I could buy one in my name, so the wife got one in hers (her father transferred one of his guns over to her, which simplified the process)- the permit she has isn't for carrying, but for home storage and transportation in the car from the house to a gun range.
> 
> Note that anything decent you might want to buy (Glock 19, Beretta 92F, CZ75, etc.) is going to cost you around 100K all-in.
> 
> Used .38s are still really pricey- it's the government's way of controlling the legal market.


ouch! 100,000 baht?!  for a pistol?

you can get a new Glock 17 for $520 U.S. dollars in the States, about 17,000 baht.

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## dirtydog

They are around 70k baht here, 2nd hand .38 sw is around 25k to 34k baht.

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## FailSafe

> Originally Posted by FailSafe
> 
> 
> I just looked into it- there was no way I could buy one in my name, so the wife got one in hers (her father transferred one of his guns over to her, which simplified the process)- the permit she has isn't for carrying, but for home storage and transportation in the car from the house to a gun range.
> 
> Note that anything decent you might want to buy (Glock 19, Beretta 92F, CZ75, etc.) is going to cost you around 100K all-in.
> 
> Used .38s are still really pricey- it's the government's way of controlling the legal market.
> 
> ...


Yes, I know- I'm from the States and I've still got a few guns in my dad's safe.

You're probably not going to find a brand-new Glock (17 or 19) for 70K- it will be closer to 85K (and most Thais won't get approved for anything bigger than .38/9mm)  and (as I mentioned) closer to 100K after paperwork fees/transport and greasing a few palms...

I went looking for a Sig Sauer 229 as I've owned one before and they're super-reliable- I could only find a 226 for 87K.

I (well, I should say _my wife_) ended up with a Browning Hi-Power (great gun, but not my favorite as I dislike the trigger pull and there's no one in Thailand who I would trust to work on it)- it runs nearly a grand in the States, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's close to 200K here.

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## Bower

Shhssh, a gun in my wifes name, she couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.
No proficiency test or at least membership of a gun club.
Compulsory gun cabinet ? separate ammo safe ?

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## dirtydog

> No proficiency test or at least membership of a gun club.
> Compulsory gun cabinet ? separate ammo safe ?


Whats all that then? No point in owning a gun for home protection if it is stuck in a safe without bullets in it, Thailands gun laws and home protection laws are slightly different to the UK, here you are actually allowed to protect yourself and your property.

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## storm1fishing

What would the implecations be for a falang if he actually used (his wife's) gun and killed someone on his property in self defence.

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## dirtydog

^It would depend greatly on your relationhip with the police and who was shot.

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## FailSafe

> ^It would depend greatly on your relationhip with the police and who was shot.


Even if you are friendly with the cops and it happened on your property in self-defense, a wise man would have his woman fire off a shot (so she has powder residue on her hands- he should also scrub his own hands) and have her claim to have done the shooting.

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## koman

And of course in Thailand; as in all other countries that have stringent gun control laws....the people who just want to protect themselves in their own home can't get a gun, but all the guys who want to break in, are armed to the teeth.....but without a doubt they have all gone through the 4 step process of doing it legally... :Confused:

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## guyinthailand

> What would the implecations be for a falang if he actually used (his wife's) gun and killed someone on his property in self defence.



You know why bus drivers flee the scene after a bus accident has killed passengers?  Because the family members will dismember the bus driver.

If you kill a Thai you better do the same: flee.

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## ThaiAm

Had a friend from England that thought he needed a gun so he bought one in his wifes name and seems to me he paid about 80,000 baht.  Short time later they divorced and now he has a pistol but for sure can't do a thing with it since the papers are in her name.
From my point of view a big solid bat like stick or two is enough protection and no need to get into the business of owning a gun.

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## FailSafe

> From my point of view a big solid bat like stick or two is enough protection and no need to get into the business of owning a gun.


And what will you do if the guy breaking into your house pulls out a shitty .38 when you confront him?

'Never bring a bat to a gunfight.'

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## sunsetter

> is going to cost you around 100K all-in.


whole street over near chinatown, glocks and s+w m+ps, can get them for a lot less than that if you dont go with the missus  :Smile:

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## FailSafe

Well, hell, you can find a used (and I mean *used*) .22 for 5K if you know where to look and don't mind being implicated in few killings you had no part in. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## sunsetter

^if that was for me, im talking about real shops, not back alleys,theres also a second hand market in imported semis, not many come onto the market but they do pop up

i had some pictures somewhere on here, some similar thread.... cant bloody find it

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## FailSafe

There's a big used market, but the guns are still pretty expensive- popular models in good condition are still ~75% of retail.

It's not the gun you're paying for- it's the taxes associated with it (like a high-end car).

Like I said earlier in the thread, I (err... I mean she...) was gifted a much higher-quality gun than I ever would have bought anyway. :Smile:

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## Slipstream

So the bottom line is you need to be a 'permanent resident.'  That excludes a large chunk of farang's.

Now I know some of you will say 'Good! It stops the bad farang owning  them'  however I can tell you for nothing my buddy had an attempted  fire-bombing done on his house by a drugged-up yaa-baa gang (they  thought he'd gotten one of their member's in jail when it was a Thai).
He's got fck all to defend himself with!  He's married to a Thai

I also had an attempted break-in at my house here and packing nothing but pepper-spray doesn't quite cut it in my eye's.

Is that a hard and fast rule on the permanent residency or does it vary from province to province?
What does the actual Thai Law state in black and white on farang's owning guns?

I've been having this argument with a friend who is adamant farang's cannot own guns legally.  

What about blank-firer's?  Sure they do fck all but at least it's something that goes 'BANG' and will likely shit up a burglar to flee to rob a softer target...

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## dirtydog

> Is that a hard and fast rule on the permanent residency or does it vary from province to province?


Gun licenses are for life, you don't renew each year or anything.




> I've been having this argument with a friend who is adamant farang's cannot own guns legally.


How high and powerful is your Thai garauntor going to be? In times gone by if you knew an extremely high policeman they would issue a letter allowing you to keep a gun, but, that isn't strictly legal, but which policeman is going to question his bosses decision. For 99.99999% of farangs here, they wouldn't be able to get a license.

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## larvidchr

^^  If you would feel safer having a gun in your home, then never mind Thai law, just go out and buy one on the black market, cause if you ever came in a situation where a gun was the only way to save your/family bacon I'm pretty sure you'd rather face the problems of bribing your way out/or a Thai court - than the undertaker.  :Wink:

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## FailSafe

> I'm pretty sure you'd rather face the problems of bribing your way out/or a Thai court - than the undertaker.


There's a saying in the States- 'I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.'

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## koman

> There's a big used market, but the guns are still pretty expensive- popular models in good condition are still ~75% of retail.


Where is this used market....how do you find good stuff for sale, and  how do you go about buying something when you find it?

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## FailSafe

There are many gun shops in Bangkok- they all have used guns for sale (lots of lower quality .38s- they're still very pricey)- it would help a lot if you had some experience handling guns (especially a semi-auto- if you don't know how to take it apart to examine it, you probably shouldn't buy used unless you bring someone more knowledgeable with you to check it out).

You'll need your paperwork set up in advance before making a purchase (and permanent resident or not, you'll need a Thai person with some connections and money to help out- it's very unlikely that you'll be able to get anything in your own name, no matter who guarantees you).

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## Slipstream

Thanks for that, any info on gun's that have been converted to blank-firing?  Do the gun-shops sell those?

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## tombeckett

Hello Everyone..
Was just wondering what is the story with rifle shooting here? Is there a range near Pattaya? what calibers are available?

I did alot of rifle back home and would like to get into it here if possible..

Thanks
Tom.

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## pluto

There are a couple of gun ranges in Pattaya. One is under the Tiffany complex on Second road. Another one on Soi "Paradise villa" about 500 meters Southbound after Lotus turn left go past the railway tracks and its on your right. There is another one in Huay Yai as well next to the road which is parallel to the railway tracks. There might be more which have popped up in the last few years.

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## dirtydog

Don't think there are any rifle ranges, plenty of pistol range in Pattaya and Jomtien, Elepahnt Krall on Soi Theprassit, Elephant Krall on Sukhumvit heading towards Sattahip by Soi Chaiyapruk, lots more around.

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## tombeckett

> Don't think there are any rifle ranges, plenty of pistol range in Pattaya and Jomtien, Elepahnt Krall on Soi Theprassit, Elephant Krall on Sukhumvit heading towards Sattahip by Soi Chaiyapruk, lots more around.


Thanks Dirtydog..
Yes i know of the pistol ranges was hoping there was a Rifle range somewhere.. what if i bring the rifle to the pistol range :Smile:  can just imagine there faces landing a .308wby-mag  up in front of the range master :smiley laughing:

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## FailSafe

I used to have a Weatherby 7mm mag (worst recoil of any rifle I ever owned- 10 shots or so and I was done- but great workmanship).

It would have been overkill at a 30 meter gun range... :Smile:

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## Dick

Beratta 84f .380 in stainless is a great weapon for self protection

and yes the gun prices here are worse than cars.

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## FailSafe

Nothing wrong with a Beretta, though if I had to rely on one gun, I would take a Glock 19 over anything else (which is why the wife has one)- reliable as a hammer, and feeds any ammo (no matter how crappy) without jamming (even if you never clean it, though I'm very good about that).

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## Dick

The safety on Glocks are flawed when a round is chambered

a standard double action is a more reliable system

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## FailSafe

A Glock has 3 passive safeties, but to call them 'flawed' is ridiculous.

Your only real safety is your finger, and I don't believe in relying on your gun to prevent an accidental discharge- I know how to keep mine off the trigger until I want to the gun to go 'bang'.

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## Dick

> A Glock has 3 passive safeties, but to call them 'flawed' is ridiculous.
> 
> Your only real safety is your finger, and I don't believe in relying on your gun to prevent an accidental discharge- I know how to keep mine off the trigger until I want to the gun to go 'bang'.


Get that stupid ass trigger safety in a combat situation and you will know what a shit design it is.

And check online how many goofy assed cops accidently discharged their weapons because of it - in fact  it was the craze with all the police depts when it first came available on the US market , now most departments dont even allow the piece of shit to be a service side arm.


Trust God , trust Dick

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## FailSafe

Right- that's why Glock is the pistol issued to all FBI and DEA agents, and is carried by 65% of police officers in the US (and by most law enforcement agents all over the world). :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Weapons are discharged accidentally because someone's finger was on the trigger when it shouldn't have been- an external safety doesn't fix being stupid.

Please show me where 'most departments' don't allow Glocks to be carried on or off duty.

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## Fondles

> and yes the gun prices here are worse than cars.


Ive no idea what gun prices are like in the "real world" but a work colleague (Thai) just bought a spankers new Glock 35 with 3 spare mags for Bt.40,000 I thought that seemed reasonable.

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## FailSafe

40K with paperwork is way less than you could buy it for from any dealer in Thailand- 75K maybe- not saying it's bs, but that's just too cheap for a new one (though it's a decent price second-hand).

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## Fondles

> 40K with paperwork is way less than you could buy it for from any dealer in Thailand- 75K maybe- not saying it's bs, but that's just too cheap for a new one (though it's a decent price second-hand).


All legal with paper work, he has a license for it as well.

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## FailSafe

What dealer did he get it from?  I just really doubt that price, but good for him if he got it (I would guess it's less than dealer cost, or very close to it).

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## Fondles

> What dealer did he get it from?  I just really doubt that price, but good for him if he got it (I would guess it's less than dealer cost, or very close to it).


He did show me the invoice but the dealer name escapes at this point in time, I'll ask on Monday but was purchased in BKK.

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## FailSafe

Here's a good thread from a foreigner who went to a few of the gun shops last year- the price for a Glock 19 was 100K (my wife's was 85K)-

Oceanbob in Bangkok Thailand.*Photos Added..GUNs Galore here - Calguns.net

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## Fondles

Do you have a link for a Thai person who went to a few of the gun shops last year ?

Intersting read though, you can reload here, powders and primers are available.

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## FailSafe

My wife's purchase was made by her father, who has a friend at the shop- I wasn't involved and we didn't get the 'farang price' (which doesn't exist anyway as they can't buy guns here).

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## dirtydog

Aint no farang prices, cheapest 2nd hand normally guns start at 20k baht, glocks around 50k baht upwards, he got a good deal at 40k baht.

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## Fondles

> Aint no farang prices, cheapest 2nd hand normally guns start at 20k baht, glocks around 50k baht upwards, he got a good deal at 40k baht.


He was very excited about it, came straight up to my office to show me. I wanted to put some slugs into some glass I had in my office but he was not keen.

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## FailSafe

Also ask him how he was able to get a G35- I pretty sure (though not 100% positive) that 9mm/.380 is the biggest caliber you can get for civilian use (the G35 is .40- he might have gotten a G34, which is 9mm).

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## Fondles

What do you mean "he might have gotten a G34" ?

He purchase a .40 cal g35 as I already said, are you now going to tell me it was coloured dog dick pink ?

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## FailSafe

I'm just askiing a question- don't get so defensive- I'm interested, and I'm not calling bullshit on you or him.

My father-in-law has a Wilson Ultralight in 9mm (a shame, as it should be in .45- it's a 3K gun in the States- it must have cost a fortune here), a Browning Hi-Power (which my wife had for a while but it was too complicated for her with the external safety, and she couldn't rack it), and a couple other pistols, all in 9mm- I would like him to get a .45 (mostly so I can play with it at the range when I'm in BKK), but I didn't think he could buy one in a larger caliber, and that's why I'm asking as you might be able to provide some info- is that OK?

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## Dick

> Originally Posted by dirtydog
> 
> 
> Aint no farang prices, cheapest 2nd hand normally guns start at 20k baht, glocks around 50k baht upwards, he got a good deal at 40k baht.
> 
> 
> He was very excited about it, came straight up to my office to show me. I wanted to put some slugs into some glass I had in my office but he was not keen.




Was there any chocolate looking substance on the end of the barrel ?

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## Krumble

I legally own a number of firearms in my own name Thailand acquired at first as a permanent resident and, more recently, as a Thai citizen.  Recently I heard that they had temporarily suspended issuance of permits to foreigners in Bangkok, since the attempted robbery of a gun shop by some Chinese a few months back, but hopefully that will pass in time, if there are no more similar incidents.  Gun licensing in Bangkok is done by the Interior Ministry following he national firearms laws but provincial governors are entitled to impose stricter rules based on their assessment of the situation in their province.  In many provinces this results in stricter implementation than in Bangkok.  Nonthaburi is a case in point, where getting a permit is notoriously difficult and many shooters shift their tabien baan to Bangkok for this reason.  Phuket, I believe, bans permits for foreigners completely and there are probably other provinces that do the same.   Bangkok is regarded as the easiest.

The firearms law requires that you have an occupation and that you have a tabien baan for residence you have lived at for 6 months. You also have to provide evidence of a bank balance of over 40 or 50k baht. For your first permit you need a character reference from your local cop shop or a village headman or someone, if you live upcountry. When I got this at the police station, it involved a brief interview asking about my work, home, family and if I had any enemies or disputes with anyone (no is the correct answer here). After your first permit has been issued you just present a copy to avoid doing this again.  Finger prints need to be taken if you have not submitted any within 6 months.  You need a letter from your employer stating your salary, position and starting date and the letter should not be more than 6 months old.  If it is your own business, you need a company or business affidavit.  I have heard that in some provinces they will accept title deeds as evidence of assets worth defending from villagers in lieu of evidence of formal employment but the law does state you need an occupation and that is the policy in Bangkok.  Foreigners of course need to submit copies of passports, work permits and permanent residence documents. The temporary permit you get to take possession of your new gun is called Por 3 and the permanent one you get to own and use it is a Por 4.  I think Por 1 is the application form and I don't know what Por 2 is. It is doesn't matter much. Por 4s are to 'own and use' the gun and are valid for as long as you own it. Por 12 is a permit to carry a concealed gun.  In Bangkok it is issued by the police national hq.  There are permits to carry in your own province and nationwide, which are the hardest to get.  But any type of Por 12 is now virtually impossible for ordinary people without high level connections.  They are only valid for one year at a time.  

Some people say it is virtually impossible even for a Thai to get a permit for anything bigger than a .38 or 9mm but this is totally untrue, at least in Bangkok.  I got a .45 pistol as a foreigner a long time ago without any restriction on its use.  This days the licenses for .357 magnums and anything over .38 or 9m state they are 'For sport' and anything smaller is for 'Protection of life and property'.  The exception is that shotguns up to 12 gauge are also issued for 'Protection of life and property'.  I have never seen a shotgun bigger than 12 gauge in Thailand but any type of 12 gauge with a barrel of 18 inches or more is allowed, including semi-auto. I have seen a small number of 410 shotguns but never a 20 gauge.  Rifles that shoot revolver ammunition are allowed, if your province allows them.  Bangkok does. So you can own a cowboy style lever action Henry or Marlin carbine in .357 magnum or .44 magnum, if that's your thing.  .45 is the largest caliber allowed for short or long guns, so forget about that .50 Desert Eagle or S&W revolver. Rifles that shoot rifle ammo are also permitted in Bangkok and some other provinces.  You There are many .223 and .308 rifles in Thailand and a smaller number of bigger .30 calibers like 30-06 and .338 Lapua but the availability and cost anything over .308 is a real challenge.  .308 is tough enough.  High velocity rifles cannot be used at any ranges in Bangkok but can be used at some 100-800 metre military ranges upcountry.

The most readily available and cheapest ammo in Thailand is locally produced stuff in .22lr, .38, 9mm and .45 but you can find imported ammo in some other calibers without too much difficulty like .22WMR, .380, .357 magnum.  More exotic calibers like .17HMR, .25, .32, .40 may be found at a price but are probably best avoided.  Prices for ammo and guns are usually around 3-5 times higher than in the US. A new Glock 19 or second hand S&W .38 will cost 80-90k baht in Bangkok but most handguns are 100k up.  Shotguns and .22 rifles can be had for 30k and up though. 

Happy shooting.

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## Krumble

> Also ask him how he was able to get a G35- I pretty sure (though not 100% positive) that 9mm/.380 is the biggest caliber you can get for civilian use (the G35 is .40- he might have gotten a G34, which is 9mm).


Not correct. You can get permits for any caliber up to and including .45. I have a .45 1911 pistol. You can even have a .338 LM rifle which is good for shots out to 1,500 metres, if you can afford the ammo. For .357, .40, .44, .45 and .223 and .30 rifle calibers the permit will be issued 'For sport' instead for 'Protection of life and property' and you will need to get a certificate from a shooting club to confirm you are a member and have undergone a basic course of shooting and gun safety, not difficult. The certificate is not required for handguns 9mm/.38 or less and shotguns.

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