#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > World News >  >  Trump to announce Jerusalem as capital of Israel

## HermantheGerman

December 2, 2017 09:07     

*The Trump administration plans on rolling out a detailed proposal for peace in the coming months.*            US President Donald Trump will announce that Jerusalem is  the capital of Israel,  several US media organizations reported on  Friday.

The reports note that  Trump will not accompany the  announcement with a final decision to relocate the  US embassy there  from Tel Aviv. They do not detail whether Trump will explain  whether  Jerusalem is Israels capital in part or in whole one of the thorniest   issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict long left to the parties to  negotiate  in a final status settlement.


  It would be an unprecedented move which  Palestinian Authority  officials are already warning would kill the burgeoning  peace process  in the womb. The Trump administration plans on rolling out a  detailed  proposal for peace in the coming months.

Jared Kushner, the  presidents son-in-law and senior adviser leading  the administrations peace  effort, will speak on their plans at a  Brookings Institution forum over the  weekend.

US media  separately reported on Friday that Kushner may be embroiled in the   indictment and ultimately plea agreement of Michael Flynn in special  counsel  Robert Muellers probe into Russian interference in the US  election. The  reports claim that Flynn lied to the FBI about contacts  with Russias ambassador  to the US over a UN Security Council  resolution on Israeli settlement activity  in the West Bank last  December, on which he was allegedly in communication with  Kushner.

The  Israeli government asked Trumps team to intervene as that  resolution  was making its way toward a vote, and as the Obama administration was   signaling it would allow its passage. It was before Trumps  inauguration, and  thus Kushner and Flynn were still private citizens.         

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Tru...-Israel-515795

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## HermantheGerman

*Arab states will likely cave if US declares Jerusalem Israel's capital*December 3, 2017 22:43*Unless domestic reaction becomes  unexpectedly explosive, Riyadh, Cairo and Amman can be expected to  confine their responses to verbal missives that will soon subside.*             If the Palestinians are counting on a strong response from Arab states if the Trump administration recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital, they are likely to be disappointed.

Palestinian  Foreign Minister Riyadh Malki called Sunday for an emergency meeting of  the Arab League amid US media reports that Trump is planning to  recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital Wednesday. Malki said the  meeting would tackle "necessary steps regarding this irresponsible  American measure."



But the bitter reality for the Palestinians is that key Arab  countries—Saudi Arabia, Egypt and even Jordan with its Palestinian  majority and role as custodian of Jerusalem holy sites- are simply too  dependent on US goodwill to get into a real row with the Trump  administration. This is a case where each of their national interests  trumps Arab solidarity.
Unless domestic reaction becomes unexpectedly explosive, Riyadh, Cairo  and Amman can be expected to confine their responses to verbal missives  that will soon subside. 

"They will at least pretend to be  objecting vociferously but as long as he doesn't move the embassy, they  will put up with it after a few days of protesting," says Gabriel  Ben-Dor, a Middle East specialist at Haifa University. "The moderate  Arab states will understand this is a compromise for Trump between his  commitments and the practical realities. They'll protest vocally, but  that's all."

Given close Saudi-US ties, Riyadh may even be  expected by Washington to temper the anger of Palestinian Authority  President Mahmoud Abbas over the step, according to Brandon Friedman, a  Saudi specialist at Tel Aviv University's Dayan Center. 
"If the rumors are true about tight US-Saudi coordination and a back  channel between Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, and [Trump adviser]  Jared Kushner, the Saudis may be expected to reach out to the  Palestinian Authority and to manage Abbas. One imagines that at the  beginning there will be a lot of aggressive rhetoric among the  Palestinians if the US goes ahead with this. But if the US coordinates  with the Saudis, it could be their job to reassure the Palestinians, to  get them to back away from the most provocative things they could do and  to manage them. But that will be a tall order."

The Saudis can  be expected to put their own strategic interests before the Palestinian  issue, Friedman says. And their main strategic interest is pushing back  against what they perceive as Iranian expansion in the region — be it in  Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen or Syria. For this they need Washington, and they  are hoping the Trump administration will take a more combative posture  toward Iran than its predecessor. This need is more important to them  than tangibly backing the Palestinians in a dispute with Washington.

Still,  Friedman adds that "it is way too early to say the Saudis will throw  the Palestinians under the bus. To say that we need to know more about  the American step, what it means and how it effects any final status  agreement."

Jordan's response will likely also be a function of its dependence on the US. _

Jordan Times_  columnist Daoud Kuttab said in a phone interview from Amman that the US  recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital would likely trigger  demonstrations called by professional unions, parties and the Muslim  Brotherhood. Parliament can be expected to make a very strong statement,  he added.

But beyond issuing its own statement, there is not  much the palace can do, he said. "I don't think they can do much about  the US because they need the US for financial support" Kuttab said.  "They can make clear it's not conducive to peace and that as custodian  of the holy places, Jordan will oppose it." 

Jordan received 1.4 billion dollars in aid in 2017.

Kuttab  said the fact that the US embassy in Israel is not being moved and the  fact that the Israeli embassy, a magnet for demonstrations, is closed  may temper the protests. "People look for what is actionable rather than  statements. The fact that it looks like the embassy move is being  postponed means the US is giving lip service, though it is a violation  of international law, its own laws and its own commitment."

Arab states will likely cave if US declares Jerusalem Israel's capital - Arab-Israeli Conflict - Jerusalem Post

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## HermantheGerman

*Jordan begins diplomatic offensive ahead of Trump move on Jerusalem*AMMAN (Reuters) - Jordan has begun consultations on convening an  emergency meeting of the Arab League and the Organisation of Islamic  Cooperation before an expected move this week by U.S. President Donald  Trump to recognize Jerusalem as Israels capital, a senior Jordanian  source said.   
A senior U.S. administration official said on  Friday that Trump was likely to make the controversial declaration in a  speech on Wednesday. Recognizing Jerusalem would upend decades of  American policy and possibly inflame tensions in the Middle East. 
Jordan,  the current president of the Arab summit, would invite members of the  two bodies to convene if the recognition is extended, to discuss ways  of dealing with the consequences of such a decision that raised alarm  and concern, the senior Jordanian diplomatic source told Reuters. 
It  could ultimately hamper all efforts to get the peace process moving and  would certainly be provocative to Arab and Muslim countries and Muslim  communities across the West, said the source, asking not to be named. 

No issue can move Arabs and Muslims in the same potent way as Jerusalem does.      
King  Abdullahs Hashemite dynasty is the custodian of the Muslim holy sites  in Jerusalem, making Amman sensitive to any changes of status of the  disputed city. 
Officials are worried the move  could trigger violence in the Palestinian territories and a spillover  into Jordan, a country where many people are descendants of Palestinian  refugees whose families left after the creation of Israel in 1948. 
A  tremendous wave of anger will spread across the Arab and Muslim world,  said another regional diplomatic source in touch with U.S. officials on  the issue. 
Tensions in Jerusalems Al Aqsa compound, the third holiest site in Islam, earlier this year provoked days of unrest.  
Word  of Trumps planned announcement, which would deviate from the line  taken by previous U.S. presidents who insisted Jerusalems status must  be decided in negotiations, drew criticism from the Palestinian  Authority. 
The Palestinians want East Jerusalem  as the capital of their future state, and the international community  does not recognize Israels claim on all of the city, home to sites holy  to the Jewish, Muslim and Christian religions.     
Jordan  lost East Jerusalem and the West Bank to Israel during the 1967  Arab-Israeli war and says the citys fate should only be decided only at  the end of a final settlement.   
King  Abdullah warned of the repercussions of Trumps expected move in talks  this week in Washington with top administration officials.  
Trump  suggested earlier this year he was open to new ways to achieve Middle  East peace that did not necessarily entail the creation of a Palestinian  state, a hallmark of U.S. policy for decades. 
If it happens  (recognition of Jerusalem) it will jeopardize all efforts towards  stability and peace in the region and thwart a resolution of the  conflict, the regional diplomatic source said.  

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-j...-idUSKBN1DX0OY

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## Maanaam

> The Trump administration plans on rolling out a detailed proposal for peace





> US President Donald Trump will announce that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel,


Those two statements are so diametrically opposite, it's laughable.
If it happens, and I somehow think that it is such high folly that it won't, Trump will have sealed his position, already firmly cemented, as the worst US president ever, and is unlikely to be unseated, ever.

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## HermantheGerman

*Let's see what will happen on Wednesday . Trump is always good for a good deed.

Trump still weighing whether to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital: Kushner*December 3, 2017 /  6:46 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump has not yet made a  decision on whether to formally recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital,  his adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner said on Sunday, a move that  would break with decades of U.S. policy and could fuel violence in the  Middle East.  
“He’s still looking at a lot of different facts,  and then when he makes his decision, he’ll be the one to want to tell  you, not me,” Kushner said at an annual conference on U.S. policy in the  Middle East organized by the Brookings Institution think tank in  Washington. 
A senior administration official said last week that Trump could make the announcement on Wednesday. 
Kushner  is leading Trump’s efforts to restart long-stalled Israeli-Palestinian  peace talks, efforts that so far have shown little progress. 
Past  U.S. presidents have insisted that the status of Jerusalem -- home to  sites holy to the Jewish, Muslim and Christian religions -- must be  decided in negotiations. The Palestinians want Jerusalem as the capital  of their future state, and the international community does not  recognize Israel’s claim on all of the city. 
Any  move by the United States to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital  would fuel extremism and violence, Arab League Secretary-General Ahmed  Aboul Gheit said on Saturday. 
A senior  Jordanian source said on Sunday that Amman, the current president of the  Arab summit, has begun consultations on convening an emergency meeting  of the Arab League and the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation before  Trump’s expected declaration this week. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1DX0PV

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## stroller

> US President Donald Trump will announce that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel


And Jacob Zuma will announce that Annapolis is the capital of the US.

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## pseudolus

Tel aviv is the capital of America  

Just more proof that israel own america, and both parties are only interested in continual war and bloodshed.

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## HermantheGerman

> Tel aviv is the capital of America  
> 
> Just more proof that israel own america, and both parties are only interested in continual war and bloodshed.


Israel may need a little support because Iran is getting too close. Trump to the rescue ? 
*Alea iacta est*




> Israel attacks Iranian base near Damascus
> 
> Syrian  sources report Israeli Air Force attack near Damascus, causing power  outages, loud explosions in capital, suburbs; Assad regime retaliates  with antiaircraft fire, with 3 of 5 missiles reportedly downed; Lebanese  paper reports Israel conducted dummy raids over Lebanon, one of which  was used to attack the base.
> Arab media outlets reported Saturday Israel attacked an Iranian  base near the town of al-Kiswah, 15 kilometers southwest of Syrian  capital Damascus. Arab-language Sky News reported that Israeli fighter  jets launched air-to-surface missiles from Lebanese airspace at the  compound.
> Syrian state television corroborated the report, saying Israeli  missiles struck a military position near Damascus overnight and Syria's  air defense system thwarted them. 
> "The Israeli enemy launched...several surface-to-surface  missiles towards a military position," state television said, adding  there had been "material losses" at the site.
> 
>  A BBC report 	 revealed the base's existence three weeks ago, showing satellite  images of the compound, located 50 kilometers from the Israeli Golan  Heights. Media outlets affiliated with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's  regime and with Hezbollah reported the jets attacked a stockpile of  ammunition belonging to the Syrian Army's First Division between the  towns of Sahnaya and al-Kiswah.    
>  The attack was carried out using five missiles, whereas antiaircraft  systems deployed in a military airport in the Mezzeh neighborhood of the  Syrian capital were able to shoot down three of them. The remaining two  missiles detonated near the cache. The Hezbollah-affiliated Lebanese Al Akhbar newspaper reported the  Israeli jets conducted several dummy raids over Lebanese territory,  with one of them used to attack the stockpiles, which were located in a  vast military complex larger in size than Lebanese capital Beirut, the  report said.    
> ...

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## buriramboy

Is Tony Blair still the middle East peace envoy or been replaced? Anyway looks like Trump has similar credentials for the job as Blair had if he's looking for another job after POTUS.

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## Cujo

The U.S. Gets to determine where other countries capitals will be now? WTF?

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## Maanaam

> The U.S. Gets to determine where other countries capitals will be now? WTF?


It's actually more the converse; Telling another country (Palestine) where their capital will NOT be.

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## Cujo

Actually has the ring of fake news. I think Trump could be trolling the MSM.

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## Klondyke

Why not?  After all, the East Jerusalem is a part of Israel(i) (occupied territory of Palestine over 40 years).

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## Fluke

> The U.S. Gets to determine where other countries capitals will be now? WTF?


    This is fake news , the U.S is just contemplating moving their embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem .
Jerusalem is already Israels Capital

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## Fluke

> Why not?  After all, the East Jerusalem is a part of Israel(i) (occupied territory of Palestine over 40 years).


   West Jerusalem is part of Israel proper

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## HermantheGerman

> The U.S. Gets to determine where other countries capitals will be now? WTF?


Actually I don't give a flying f..k about what status the U.S. gives Jerusalem.
But why do we/I always get threatened by these  people ?




> Palestinians warn "world will pay the price" for any change in Jerusalem's status

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## Klondyke

> Actually I don't give a flying f..k about what status the U.S. gives Jerusalem.
> But why do we/I always get threatened by these  people ?


By who are you threatened? Just curious...

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## harrybarracuda

> By who are you threatened? Just curious...


Why don't you read the whole post you idiot.




> _Palestinians warn "world will pay the price" for any change in Jerusalem's status_

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## Maanaam

> Israel proper


Please define the borders of said "Israel proper".

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## billd766

Now that I can believe.

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## jabir

> This is fake news , the U.S is just contemplating moving their embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem .
> Jerusalem is already Israels Capital


Vanuata recognised Jerusalem as Israel's capital earlier this year, while the Vatican would like it to be an international city under UN guidance, both contra to the UN which has already designated the city in line with Palestinian aspirations as their capital. I can't see it being shared, or open, which disqualifies a claim by either side. 

That said, Trump is under pressure to start realising some of his campaign promises, and once he does announce recognition, which I believe is certain, with or without relocating his embassy though he should be obliged to do so, this will not only kick off the next intafada but also trigger severe global repercussions. 

Imho he's messing with stuff he does not understand.

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## jabir

> Please define the borders of said "Israel proper".


Already been defined by most of the world through the UN. Last year's landmark resolution made clear that Israeli settlement is a flagrant violation of international law, which in this case is governed by the UN, and has no legal validity. Therefore, all activity in the occupied territories since 1967 are illegal and it follows that the legal borders are pre-67.

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## HermantheGerman

> Already been defined by most of the world through the UN. Last year's landmark resolution made clear that Israeli settlement is a flagrant violation of international law, which in this case is governed by the UN, and has no legal validity. Therefore, all activity in the occupied territories since 1967 are illegal and it follows that the legal borders are pre-67.


U.N. ??
Who cares or respects what the U.N. says ?

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## sabang

> Jerusalem is already Israels Capital


By the same measure, it is also the capital of Palestine. But the obvious fact is, all of the political infrastructure, including foreign Embassies, are in Ramallah & Tel Aviv.

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## jabir

> U.N. ??
> Who cares or respects what the U.N. says ?


Clearly you don't, though it doesn't exist to satisfy your whims.

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## Maanaam

> Imho he's messing with stuff he does not understand.


Well, to be fair, that started the day he began campaigning.



> Therefore, all activity in the occupied territories since 1967 are illegal and it follows that the legal borders are pre-67.


Unfortunately you're wrong there. I think Golan in particular is destined to be determined as Israeli, and many of the illegal settlements will too...this has been Netanyahu's thrust for over a decade: too big to dismantle, too much of a humanitarian crisis to evacuate, especialy because the settlers are "persecuted Jews".
Israel itself has never proclaimed where it's borders are (all part of their expansion plans since 1947).

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## Fluke

> Please define the borders of said "Israel proper".


   The border, which everyone agrees upon, apart from the people who do not think that Israel should exist

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## raycarey

> The border, which everyone agrees upon


take that nonsense somewhere else.

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## Fluke

> By the same measure, it is also the capital of Palestine. But the obvious fact is, all of the political infrastructure, including foreign Embassies, are in Ramallah & Tel Aviv.


   Each Country can decide on which city is its Capital , where other Countries put their own Embassy is irrelevant .

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## Fluke

> take that nonsense somewhere else.


   To be fair, that was only half the sentence .
Everyone who accepts Israels right to exist accepts that West Jerusalem is within Israels legal boundaries, as a Country

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## harrybarracuda

> To be fair, that was only half the sentence .
> Everyone who accepts Israels right to exist accepts that West Jerusalem is within Israels legal boundaries, as a Country


So it would make sense to declare West Jerusalem the capital of Israel and East Jerusalem the capital of Palestine.

But of course the blue suede shoes would never have this, they want the fucking lot AND the offshore oil and gas, thieving big-nosed bastards.

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## Fluke

> So it would make sense to declare West Jerusalem the capital of Israel and East Jerusalem the capital of Palestine.


  That wouldnt make any sense at all, because a country that doesnt exist, cannot have a capital city

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## Fluke

> So it would make sense to declare West Jerusalem the capital of Israel .


   West Jerusalem already is the Capital of Israel, Trump is just thinking about moving the USA Embassy there, and rightly so

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## harrybarracuda

> West Jerusalem already is the Capital of Israel, Trump is just thinking about moving the USA Embassy there, and rightly so


No, the whole of Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel as far as they are concerned.




> *Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel (unofficial translation)*
> *Jerusalem, Capital of Israel:*
> *1. Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel.*


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Law

Most of the international community doesn't agree.

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## pseudolus

Flake - you are a clueless nerk... about almost everything. One mans terrorists is anothers freedom fighter. By your logic the French Resistance were terrorists....well the Nazis called them that, and as there is a very clear link in actions between the nazis and the criminal filth who run israel, that is hardly surprising.

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## Fluke

> But of course the blue suede shoes would never have this, they want the fucking lot AND the offshore oil and gas, thieving big-nosed bastards.


   The area in question East Jerusalem, does contain the Jewish Temple of David, or whats left of it, and thats 2500 years old, hardly theft, more like re gaining

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## pseudolus

Bibi the Butcher and all his head chopping mates in israel are not Jewish. They are eartern european trash posing as Jewish. They are about as Semitic as Britney Spears.

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## Maanaam

> apart from the people who do not think that Israel should exist





> That wouldnt make any sense at all, because a country that doesnt exist, cannot have a capital city


So, on the one hand you casually toss out the old chestnut implying anyone who thinks Israel should not exist (in a very Israeli "We Jews are victims" kind of way) is a nasty person, and on the other hand do not recognise the native people of Palestine and their right to exist in their own country.

You remind me of that gay bigot Jingthing on TVF.

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## Maanaam

> They are eartern european trash posing as Jewish.


Most of Israeli Jews are Europeans or descendants thereof. They may be Jewish by religion, but are certainly not native to the Levant.

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## pseudolus

> Most of Israeli Jews are Europeans or descendants thereof. They may be Jewish by religion, but are certainly not native to the Levant.



Correct. 

We want to return to our homeland! Where? Miami or Romania.

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## Fluke

> So, on the one hand you casually toss out the old chestnut implying anyone who thinks Israel should not exist (in a very Israeli "We Jews are victims" kind of way) is a nasty person, and on the other hand do not recognise the native people of Palestine and their right to exist in their own country.
> 
> You remind me of that gay bigot Jingthing on TVF.


   I didnt not say that people who think that Israel should not exist are "terrible people" and I also didnt say that Palestinians do not have a right to exist as a Country .
    Your post is complete nonsense

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## Farangrakthai

> *Everyone* who accepts Israels right to exist accepts that West Jerusalem is within Israels legal boundaries, as a Country


no, they don't and that's why the us (both republican and democratic admins) has never moved its embassy to jerusalem.  

the us has been waiting for israel and the palestinians to make a peace deal based on the 1967 borders (with some swapping of land taking place).

some deals even call for all of jerusalem to be identified as in international city.

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## Fluke

> no, they don't and that's why the us (both republican and democratic admins) has never moved its embassy to jerusalem.  
> 
> the us has been waiting for israel and the palestinians to make a peace deal based on the 1967 borders (with some swapping of land taking place).
> 
> some deals even call for all of jerusalem to be identified as in international city.


   West Jerusalem is within the boundaries of Israel proper , no one disputes this (apart from people whos geography isnt very good and they have no idea where the boundary is ) is Arab east Jerusalem, that is the issue .
   West Jerusalem is a modern day city , East Jerusalem is the old city and surrounding cluster of shacks that hasnt changed for 1000 years

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## Farangrakthai

> West Jerusalem is within the boundaries of Israel proper


true, but it's been expanded east with settlements, etc. 

so, just saying "west jerusalem is part of israel" is not technically correct. 

the 1967 borders are technically correct and are what "land for peace" negotiations are based on, of course.

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## Fluke

> true, but it's been expanded east with settlements, etc. 
> 
> so, just saying "west jerusalem is part of israel" is not technically correct. 
> 
> the 1967 borders are technically correct and are what "land for peace" negotiations are based on, of course.


  West Jerusalem is within the 1967 borders , so, it is indeed technicaly correct

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## Maanaam

> the 1967 borders are technically correct


No, that includes land conquered, which by international law should not be annexed or settled. The borders were set in 1947, but no Israeli government has ever officially acknowledged any border. The 1967 "borders" are granted grudgingly because of the victim Jew pity and lobby, and because now it is just too established to evacuate.
Bibi's continued expansion into Palestine is all part of the same long term plan; expand, settle, then become too settled for anyone to be able to kick them out.
The original Likud Party manifesto specifically stated "From the sea to the river" (and there is evidence that the river mentioned is the Euphrates, not the Jordan!).
They have removed that now because it's far too damning of their intent but everyone knows it's still in mind.

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## Maanaam

And of course, the green parts are much smaller today than shown above 17 years ago. It's a disgrace. Shame on the world for standing idly by.

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## Farangrakthai

> West Jerusalem is within the 1967 borders , so, it is indeed technicaly correct


if that's the case, great:  israel will be willing to give up all of jerusalem that is east of the 1967 borders. 




> https://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...li-settlements
> 
> Shortly after the 1967 war, Israel annexed East Jerusalem, which is part of the West Bank and had a population that was then entirely Palestinian. Israel declared the entire city to be Israel's "eternal and indivisible" capital.
> 
> No other country recognizes Israel's annexation of East Jerusalem, with the United States and others saying the city's status must be determined in negotiations. This is why the U.S. and other countries have never moved their embassies to Jerusalem. Most are in Tel Aviv.
> 
> 
> The Palestinians, meanwhile, claim the eastern part of the city as their future capital.
> 
> ...

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## jabir

> Each Country can decide on which city is its Capital , where other Countries put their own Embassy is irrelevant .


Embassies belong in the capital, elsewhere they are called consulates, missions or something else.

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## Klondyke

In my young years I had often heard, those neigbours no longer live here, they were Jewish, they moved to Palestine (never was spoken about an "Israel")...

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## Fluke

> Embassies belong in the capital, elsewhere they are called consulates, missions or something else.


  Exactly, that is why the USA wants to move its Embassy to Jerusalem

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## Fluke

> if that's the case, great:  israel will be willing to give up all of jerusalem that is east of the 1967 borders.


  Although that land contains Christianity's and Judaisms most  Holy sites , the Church of the Holy Sepulcher and the Western wall of the Temple of David , would the World want that to fall into the hands of an Islamic state ?
  Islamic states have a history of destroying things

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## cyrille

> Islamic states have a history of destroying things


That's 'IS' Fluke.

A jihadist militant group.

Not states that are Islamic.

But you know that of course. You just can't stop fishing. 

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Fluke

> That's 'IS' Fluke.
> 
> A jihadist militant group.
> 
> Not states that are Islamic.
> 
> But you know that of course. You just can't stop fishing.


   The Palestinians from the Gaza strip want a hard line Islamic state , based of Sharia law , that is the goal of Hamas .
   Although Hamas do not control the West Bank , any unity between the two, West Bank and Gaza would lead to a power struggle between the two , if Hamas comes out on top , the West bank will become an Islamic state with Sharia law .

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## Maanaam

> The Palestinians from the Gaza strip want a hard line Islamic state , based of Sharia law , that is the goal of Hamas .
>    Although Hamas do not control the West Bank , any unity between the two, West Bank and Gaza would lead to a power struggle between the two , if Hamas comes out on top , the West bank will become an Islamic state with Sharia law .


Oh, ok then, lets just kick all the native Palestinians into the ocean and let the Israelis have their "river to the sea" Promised Land.
Sounds fair.

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## sabang

You are an idiot Fluke, as well as the least respected poster on this forum. Go take your bigotry and lies to the Doghouse- at least we can get a laugh there from the train wreck of your life.

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## Fluke

> You are an idiot Fluke, as well as the least respected poster on this forum. Go take your bigotry and lies to the Doghouse- at least we can get a laugh there from the train wreck of your life.


  If all that you can do is to call people names and to yell abuse and to make personal attacks, IMO, that makes you the idiot .

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## Fluke

> You are an idiot Fluke, as well as the least respected poster on this forum. Go take your bigotry and lies to the Doghouse- at least we can get a laugh there from the train wreck of your life.


  Typical "liberal" lefty thug as well .
"Open minded",unless someone disagrees with you , then attacks them and tries to get them silenced
Makes false accusations and yells personal abuse , 
Time for you and Nervena to gang up with all the other "liberals" to try to get free speech silenced

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## harrybarracuda

This is what Israel is trying to steal from the Palestinian people by taking their land.

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## Fluke

> This is what Israel is trying to steal from the Palestinian people by taking their land.


  Thats the sea Harry, that isnt land

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## Fluke

> This is what Israel is trying to steal from the Palestinian people by taking their land.


   Thai main gas/oil fields are in Israeli territory , the small ones off the Gaza coast are quite insignificant, due to their size and it wouldnt be financially viable to extract the oil/gas at current prices

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## harrybarracuda



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## pseudolus

FLAKE has the ghost of that old bellend Piwi in him. Uses a map straight from the ADL which doesn't name PALESTINE, but instead uses the terms samaria and judea. So desperate they are to make believe that Palestine doesn't exist in their FINAL SOLUTION plan they have for the country and people. Problem is, back in 1931, Israel didn't exist. Palestine did. KLM Flew there....

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## Fluke

> FLAKE has the ghost of that old bellend Piwi in him. Uses a map straight from the ADL which doesn't name PALESTINE, but instead uses the terms samaria and judea.


   That is a lie , I didnt get the map from the ADL .
I got the map from this site , after using the search function .
And it was a random website and there are many others like it sowing similar maps

https://thinkingoutsidetheblog.blogs...-pre-1976.html

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## Fluke

> 


  You also do not have any reasonable explanation as to how the West bank would have any claims to oil/gas in the Mediterranean, when the West Bank isnt on the Mediterranean

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## Maanaam

^^^And the population of the entire Palestine area was just 5% Jewish.

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## Maanaam

> You also do not have any reasonable explanation as to how the West bank would have any claims to oil/gas in the Mediterranean, when the West Bank isnt on the Mediterranean


I do.
As partitioned in 1948 (a bad job as it split people up) there was considerable coastline that was Palestinian.

----------


## Fluke

> ^^^And the population of the entire Palestine area was just 5% Jewish.


  2018 years ago, the population was 0 % Muslim and 0 % Christian , just Jews

----------


## Fluke

> I do.
> As partitioned in 1948 (a bad job as it split people up) there was considerable coastline that was Palestinian.


   That was rejected by the Palestinians though , so, its irrelevant

----------


## Maanaam

> 2018 years ago, the population was 0 % Muslim and 0 % Christian , just Jews


Right....and my Polynesian ancestors originated in Taiwan, so all the Pacific people losing their islands to rising seas must have a valid claim to oust the Taiwanese and settle there, you'd have to agree.






> That was rejected by the Palestinians though , so, its irrelevant


Was it accepted by the shiploads of Europeans wanting to build Israel?

----------


## Fluke

> Right....and my Polynesian ancestors originated in Taiwan, so all the Pacific people losing their islands to rising seas must have a valid claim to oust the Taiwanese and settle there, you'd have to agree.


    If the Taiwanese allow it, then yes .
Have you asked them ?

----------


## Fluke

> Was it accepted by the shiploads of Europeans wanting to build Israel?


  Who Israel decides to allow into Israel to live is down to the Israelis , Palestinians have no right to dictate to Israel about their immigration policy

----------


## Maanaam

> If the Taiwanese allow it, then yes .
> Have you asked them ?


Did the Palestinians accept all those Europeans? I think not. 
Because it's the same thing that you were alluding to in your "2018 years ago" thing. I've heard the argument many times: Our ancestors came from here so we have a right to settle.

----------


## pseudolus

> That is a lie , I didnt get the map from the ADL .
> I got the map from this site , after using the search function .
> And it was a random website and there are many others like it sowing similar maps
> 
> https://thinkingoutsidetheblog.blogs...-pre-1976.html



random website - being no doubt one of your Christian Zionist blogs you read on a daily basis, you fruitcake. 

FLUKE the christian zionist. Believes the word of god so much, but not the part about beating up birds.

----------


## pseudolus

> Did the Palestinians accept all those Europeans? I think not. 
> Because it's the same thing that you were alluding to in your "2018 years ago" thing. I've heard the argument many times: Our ancestors came from here so we have a right to settle.



DNA test the fuckers and lets see - they are about as Semitic as Big Bird from Sesame Street.

----------


## Maanaam

> Who Israel decides to allow into Israel to live is down to the Israelis , Palestinians have no right to dictate to Israel about their immigration policy


In 1945!!!! That's what we're talking about...European Jews claiming Palestine as their own based on 2000 year old ancestry.

----------


## Fluke

> random website - being no doubt one of your Christian Zionist blogs you read on a daily basis, you fruitcake. 
> 
> FLUKE the christian zionist. Believes the word of god so much, but not the part about beating up birds.


   Please stop lying , I do not read Christian Zionist blogs everyday and I am an Atheist .
Do a websearch yourself and tap in " Israel borders 1967" and the image that I posted will be there on the first page, at the top .

----------


## sabang

> Thai main gas/oil fields are in Israeli territory , the small ones off the Gaza coast are quite insignificant, due to their size and it wouldnt be financially viable to extract the oil/gas at current prices


More lies & bullshit- can you even lie strait in bed?


_The Palestinians signed a memorandum of intent on November 8, 1999 with British Gas and a company linked to the Palestinian Authority, the Consolidated Contractors Company, giving them rights to explore the area.[2][3] The discovered natural gas reserve was calculated to have 35 BCM, larger than Israel's Yam Tethys maritime gas field.[3] It was found in two small gas fields dubbed Gaza Marine 1 and Gaza Marine 2.

.... As of 2017, the Gaza Marine field licenses were owned by PIF (_Palestine_) with 17.5% of the field development rights, Consolidated Contractors Company (_Palestine_) owns 27.5% of these rights and Shell 55%.[5] The development and gas extraction rights belong to the Palestinians alone.

_Full Article- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...the_Gaza_Strip

Ironically, for one of the poorest & most malnourished places in the world, the Gaza strip is actually quite wealthy, with it's offshore natural gas reserves and rich fisheries. Both blockaded by Israhell.

----------


## Fluke

> In 1945!!!! That's what we're talking about...European Jews claiming Palestine as their own based on 2000 year old ancestry.


   Many Jews came from neighboring Countries at that time , Egypt, Iran , Morocco , Yemen and numerous other M.W. Countries .
Rather hypocritical of yourself to chastise people for moving from one Country to another , when your ancestors moved from Asia to Samoa .
   Did your ancestors have any connection with Samoa or did they move to other peoples land  ?

----------


## Maanaam

> DNA test the fuckers and lets see - they are about as Semitic as Big Bird from Sesame Street.


Exactly. But DNA is a moot point. How can anyone say, "My great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather may have come from here because I have the same religion, therefore, as God promised, I have a right to kick out the natives who have lived here for uninterupted countless generations".
And Britian (70 years ago) and since then the US have said, "Sounds reasonable, go for it".

And people accept that! In large part because "Oh, these poor victims of 77 years ago...they deserve some slack (and fkuc the Palestinians because they're Muslim and my ancestors fought Muslims during the Crusades)".

----------


## pseudolus

> I do.
> As partitioned in 1948 (a bad job as it split people up) there was considerable coastline that was Palestinian.


the typical zionist fartmouth likes to not call Palestine, Palestine, but refers to WEST BANK, or GAZA etc trying to wipe the memory of Palestine from history. It's not working so well though. Oh, and islael doesn't care so much about the oil in the Med, when they have already stolen the gas fields of Syria and are pushing even further in that direction. Also, with their control of the US purse, they can buy anything that is for sale (or rather get the US to buy it for them and gift it to them). At the core of the zionists plan for israel is a White European state, with no arabs or indigenous people darkening up the streets, very much the same way that Bibi the Butchers Hero Hitler wanted. No surprise that the Nazis worked hand in hand with the zionists.

----------


## Fluke

> More lies & bullshit- can you even lie strait in bed?
> 
> 
> .


   No, you are the one who speaks bullshit .
Look at the image that Harry posted , as I said, the main oil/gas reserves are in Israeli territory , the smaller oil/gas reserves are based off the Gazian coast

----------


## Maanaam

> Many Jews came from neighboring Countries at that time , Egypt, Iran , Morocco , Yemen and numerous other M.W. Countries .
> Rather hypocritical of yourself to chastise people for moving from one Country to another , when your ancestors moved from Asia to Samoa .
>    Did you're ancestors have any connection with Samoa or did they move to other peoples land  ?


Your diverting.
1. Samoa and the other Pacific islands were uninhabited.
2. 2000 years ago things were different.
3. Why should Europeans of 75 years ago be enabled to take over land that was inhabited by the natives of Palestine?
4. Why, with civilised modern international law and conventions should Israel be allowed to continue expanding?

No man is an island entire of itself, each is a piece of the continent, a part of the maine......never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. It is incumbent upon all of humanity to stop the Israeli expansion.

----------


## pseudolus

> No, you are the one who speaks bullshit .
> Look at the image that Harry posted , as I said, the main oil/gas reserves are in Israeli territory , the smaller oil/gas reserves are based off the Gazian coast



Um no FLAKE. Your understanding of oil reserves is as limited as your understanding of the rest of the world - exceedingly limited and confined only to christian zionist wank mags.

----------


## Fluke

> 3. Why should Europeans of 75 years ago be enabled to take over land that was inhabited by the natives of Palestine?
> .


   Jews have always lived on the land, continually for over 2000 years , the Israeli Government has the right to accept immigrants of their choice ,

----------


## Fluke

> This is what Israel is trying to steal from the Palestinian people by taking their land.


  Look at the oil/gas reserves, those are the grey dots (in the sea) .
You will notice that the big ones are off the Israeli coast and the smaller ones are off the Gazian coast .

----------


## Fluke

> 1. Samoa and the other Pacific islands were uninhabited.
> .


   The first evidence of human activity from the Samoan islands dates back to 1050 B.C.E .
When did your ancestors move there ?
Around that time ?

----------


## pseudolus

> Jews have always lived on the land, continually for over 2000 years , the Israeli Government has the right to accept immigrants of their choice ,



So have Arabs and for a lot longer.... long before this religions bollocks started you muppet

----------


## Fluke

> So have Arabs and for a lot longer.... long before this religions bollocks started you muppet


  The original Jews  were Arabs living there . 
You seem to have this misconception that all Jews are European and no Jews are Arabs

----------


## pseudolus

> The original Jews  were Arabs living there . 
> You seem to have this misconception that all Jews are European and no Jews are Arabs



no FLAKE, you have the misconception that israel are allowed to murder kill and kick out all arabs from Palestine. You also fail to use your eyes which alone will tell you that the bunch of murderous bastards who set up and still currently run israel are not Arabs, but are Europeans, and therefore have ZERO place in Palestine at all. The Semetic jews, the ones who do have some tentuous historic claim to the place, are the ones holding the Jews against Zionism signs at protests. 

Zionism is a political movement and has nothing to do with Judaism. Jews are just as much a victim of the zionists as Palestinians.

----------


## Fluke

> no FLAKE, you have the misconception that israel are allowed to murder kill and kick out all arabs from Palestine.


  OK, I am willing to hear you out .
How many Arabs have been killed or kicked out of Israel ?
Compare that to how many Syrians have been killed in Syria of have been kicked out from there .
Killed Syrians and Syrian refugees 500 000 or so .

----------


## Fluke

> You also fail to use your eyes which alone will tell you that the bunch of murderous bastards who set up and still currently run israel are not Arabs, but are Europeans, and therefore have ZERO place in Palestine at all. .


  Going by that theory , White people of European descent have no place to live in the USA , NZ or Australia and Maaan needs to get his ass back to Korea

----------


## HuangLao

> no FLAKE, you have the misconception that israel are allowed to murder kill and kick out all arabs from Palestine. You also fail to use your eyes which alone will tell you that the bunch of murderous bastards who set up and still currently run israel are not Arabs, but are Europeans, and therefore have ZERO place in Palestine at all. The Semetic jews, the ones who do have some tentuous historic claim to the place, are the ones holding the Jews against Zionism signs at protests. 
> 
> Zionism is a political movement and has nothing to do with Judaism. Jews are just as much a victim of the zionists as Palestinians.



Wasting your breath.
Don't confuse the lads with reality and firm historic presence.

----------


## Cujo

So where did the bignoses come from in the first place?

----------


## Klondyke

In NYC live much more Jews than in Israel.

----------


## HuangLao

> So where did the bignoses come from in the first place?



Up for debate....

----------


## Fluke

> In NYC live much more Jews than in Israel.


  Apart from the fact that NY has 1 700 000 Jews and Israel has 6 300 000 Jews , you are incorrect

----------


## pseudolus

> OK, I am willing to hear you out .
> How many Arabs have been killed or kicked out of Israel ?
> Compare that to how many Syrians have been killed in Syria of have been kicked out from there .
> Killed Syrians and Syrian refugees 500 000 or so .



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_diaspora 

Dick. 

Question for you FLAKE - does the Palestinian Dispora have a right to return? At least their residence and heritage in Palestine can be proven. After all, it wasn't that long ago that zionist terrorists bombed them out of their houses to created the rogue apartheid state of israel.

----------


## pseudolus

> Up for debate....



God apparently. He / she decided that a group of big nosed people needed their own gang?

----------


## RPETER65

> DNA test the fuckers and lets see - they are about as Semitic as Big Bird from Sesame Street.



Seems quite clear you have no idea of the history of the tribes of the jews

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist...Jews_in_Europe

----------


## pseudolus

> Seems quite clear you have no idea of the history of the tribes of the jews
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist...Jews_in_Europe



Seems you think that all those Europeans with no Palestinian heritage at all should be allowed to kick indigenous people out of their homes and farms on the bases of some made up book and a load of European blood thirsty murderers, and the squealing of fat merkin preachers rinsing merkin Christians of their money.

----------


## Fluke

> ^^^And the population of the entire Palestine area was just 5% Jewish.


  That isnt true, it was more like 30 %

----------


## pseudolus

Flake flake flake..... so predictable. Picking up where Piwi left off.  :yerman:

----------


## Fluke

> Flake flake flake..... so predictable. Picking up where Piwi left off.


  Stating  facts , dismissing all your lies and speaking without being abusive , calling people names and mentioning their family life ?

----------


## pseudolus

> Stating  facts , dismissing all your lies and speaking without being abusive , calling people names and mentioning their family life ?


no facts from you flakey boy, only regurgitating israel bullshit, as propagated throughout the world by whackjobs like you. Anyway PIWIFlake - I'll leave you to it. 

 :Tool:

----------


## RPETER65

> So have Arabs and for a lot longer.... long before this religions bollocks started you muppet



The Jews have inhabited the land of Israel since about 1300 BC

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The Jews have inhabited the land of Israel since about 1300 BC


And Rpeter knows, because he was there.

----------


## jabir

BC the region was inhabited predominantly by Jews and pagans, and to 610 by Jews, pagans and Christians before Muslims entered the stew. 

For continuous habitation there is evidence of all religions, though for some periods with breaks; much depends on politically and religiously motivated sources.

Nothing complicated about any of this.

----------


## sabang

> No, you are the one who speaks bullshit .
>  Look at the image that Harry posted , as I said, the main oil/gas reserves are in Israeli territory , the smaller oil/gas reserves are based off the Gazian coast


Yawwwn, no you definitely couldn't even lie strait in bed. So now you are saying British Gas are lying about the size of Gazan (ie Palestinian) gas reserves? You are saying that two of the worlds largest energy companies- Gazprom & Shell- signed agreements with Palestine to exploit an unprofitable natural gas field?  :smiley laughing: 

And of course you will no doubt call this a lie too, Liar:-

_It should be noted that 60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline belong to Palestine._*The BG Group drilled two wells in 2000: Gaza Marine-1 and Gaza Marine-2. Reserves are estimated by British Gas to be of the order of 1.4trillioncubicfeet, valued at approximately 4 billion dollars*_. These are the figures made public by British Gas. The size of Palestines gas reserves could be much larger.

_War in Gaza = War Over Natural Gas?

So here is the current state of play. Israel is stealing-
Palestinian land
Palestinian houses, in east Jerusalem in particular
Palestinian water- per head, Israeli trespassers use an amazing six times the water of the native Palestinians
Syrian oil & gas
+ blockading Gaza, and it's natural wealth of rich fisheries and gas reserves.

What a nice member of the international community. I am minded of Winston Churchill (although he was speaking about the Huns at the time)- "They're either at your feet, or at your throat". Long time overdue that Israel was brought to heel, and I wager they already would have been were it not for a gutless, gormless, utterly impotent USA. We long ago worked out that the beltways real movers and shakers reside in Tel Aviv- heck, Bibi told us so himself.

_I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction.__"
_Netanyahu, 2001. (HE DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS BEING RECORDED ON VIDEO).
_
_

----------


## Maanaam

> Jews have always lived on the land, continually for over 2000 years , the Israeli Government has the right to accept immigrants of their choice ,


FFS, you're talking about a government that was formed only 75 odd years ago.
This is one too many diversionary posts. I have no desire to debate with ingenuous posters.

----------


## Maanaam

> Seems you think that all those Europeans with no Palestinian heritage at all should be allowed to kick indigenous people out of their homes and farms on the bases of some made up book and a load of European blood thirsty murderers, and the squealing of fat merkin preachers rinsing merkin Christians of their money.


Seems so.

----------


## Maanaam

> Yawwwn, no you definitely couldn't even lie strait in bed. So now you are saying British Gas are lying about the size of Gazan (ie Palestinian) gas reserves? You are saying that two of the worlds largest energy companies- Gazprom & Shell- signed agreements with Palestine to exploit an unprofitable natural gas field? 
> 
> And of course you will no doubt call this a lie too, Liar:-
> 
> _It should be noted that 60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline belong to Palestine._*The BG Group drilled two wells in 2000: Gaza Marine-1 and Gaza Marine-2. Reserves are estimated by British Gas to be of the order of 1.4trillioncubicfeet, valued at approximately 4 billion dollars*_. These are the figures made public by British Gas. The size of Palestine’s gas reserves could be much larger.
> 
> _War in Gaza = War Over Natural Gas?
> 
> So here is the current state of play. Israel is stealing-
> ...


And I'm assuming that's on current Gazan coastline. What about the 1948 coastline that belonged to the Palestinians? Even the 1969 coastline?

----------


## sabang

Obviously, they would have considerably more of the gas reserves then. I am purely talking about Palestinian national waters as recognized under the Oslo accords and by the international community & international law.

----------


## pseudolus

> Obviously, they would have considerably more of the gas reserves then. I am purely talking about Palestinian national waters as recognized under the Oslo accords and by the international community & international law.



Ahh but Sabang, some looney whackjob preacher in Alabama doesn't recognise that at all, so therefore, FLAKE must be true.

----------


## Maanaam

> Obviously, they would have considerably more of the gas reserves then. I am purely talking about Palestinian national waters as recognized under the Oslo accords and by the international community & international law.


That was my point. And Harry's.  Jewish Israel is grabbing more and more...partly for the oil resources, partly for the water resources, and partly for a footprint to house the immigrants that they attract purely to make each landgrab a future "too many to evict" scenario.

----------


## RPETER65

> Seems you think that all those Europeans with no Palestinian heritage at all should be allowed to kick indigenous people out of their homes and farms on the bases of some made up book and a load of European blood thirsty murderers, and the squealing of fat merkin preachers rinsing merkin Christians of their money.


You might want to do a little history research,then you might not sound like such an idiot.

----------


## pseudolus

> You might want to do a little history research,then you might not sound like such an idiot.


You know nothing of history sunshine. you only know hasbara bullshit and push that around like a shit on a stick

----------


## RPETER65

> And Rpeter knows, because he was there.



You also might want to research the history of the Jewish people,then you also might not sound like the idiot you really are.

----------


## RPETER65

> You know nothing of history sunshine. you only know hasbara bullshit and push that around like a shit on a stick



I know a lot know a lot more of history than you think I know,lips.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You might want to do a little history research,then you might not sound like such an idiot.


Ah leave him alone, he's got to be outstanding at something.

 :Smile:

----------


## Maanaam

> research the history of the Jewish people


Moot. Ancient or modern history, what gives a religious group the right to displace native Palestinians from their homeland?

----------


## Fluke

> Obviously, they would have considerably more of the gas reserves then. I am purely talking about Palestinian national waters as recognized under the Oslo accords and by the international community & international law.


  That is what YOU are talking about, I was talking to Harry about the whole Levant Basin .
I stated that the whole Levant Basin , the biggest reserves belong to Israel , they are in Israel territorial waters.
Then you replied, that a small segment t of the Levant basin belongs to the Palestinians and you called me a liar !!!!
I give up, you are too stupid to converse with

----------


## Fluke

> Moot. Ancient or modern history, what gives a religious group the right to displace native Palestinians from their homeland?



  Native Palestinians received Israeli Citizenship, 1 million of them, Israeli Muslim/Christian Palestinian Arabs now live happily and content within Israel as equal citizens

----------


## sabang

> I was talking to Harry about the whole Levant Basin .
>  I stated that the whole Levant Basin , the biggest reserves belong to Israel , they are in Israel territorial waters.
>  Then you replied, that a small segment t of the Levant basin belongs to the Palestinians and you called me a liar !!!!


So you are either lieing thru your back teeth again, or functionally illiterate. Probably both.

YET AGAIN:-




> *60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline belong to Palestine
> *
> War in Gaza = War Over Natural Gas?


So dumbo, that means that Palestine in it's territorial waters has 50% more natural gas than Israel in it's own.
Is that clear enough?? Gawd you are slow.  :ssssh:

----------


## pseudolus

> Native Palestinians received Israeli Citizenship, 1 million of them, Israeli Muslim/Christian Palestinian Arabs now live happily and content within Israel *as equal citizens*


Equals? You sure about that, creampuff?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That is what YOU are talking about, I was talking to Harry about the whole Levant Basin .
> I stated that the whole Levant Basin , the biggest reserves belong to Israel , they are in Israel territorial waters.
> Then you replied, that a small segment t of the Levant basin belongs to the Palestinians and you called me a liar !!!!
> I give up, you are too stupid to converse with



Because you're fundamentally a fucking idiot, it would be remiss of me not to point out that Israel only has most of its "territorial waters" because it has invaded and occupied Palestinian coastal land.

You complete tit.

----------


## pseudolus

Bugger it. On the basis that anything harry says is bullshit, I'm going to have to switch sides now. 

FLAKE you ignorant piece of turd, you are right. Palestinians gave up their country to the eurozios in good faith, as it was  a barren infertile land, with nothing on it before. There was no bombing, no jewterrorists, no land grab, and certainly no Nukes. Bibi the Butcher is  a lovely man, definitely not a pedo or a crook, and all Palis (as your hero Piwi would call them to dehumanisae them and justify their slaughter) deserve to be wiped out.

----------


## Fluke

> Because you're fundamentally a fucking idiot, it would be remiss of me not to point out that Israel only has most of its "territorial waters" because it has invaded and occupied Palestinian coastal land.
> 
> You complete tit.


  Oh I see, you were making a subtle point that the oil belongs to the Palestinians because you feel that Palestine should be there instead of Israel and therefore all the oil in the Levant basin should belong to the Palestinians . Now I see
Why didnt you just say that in the first place ?
When you claimed that Israel were stealing Palestinian oil, I thought that you meant that Israel were stealing Palestinian oil

----------


## pseudolus

> I thought that you meant that Israel were stealing Palestinian oil


They are, creampuff, same as they are stealing Syrian gas in the Golan Heights.

----------


## Cujo

Meanwhile, back on topic, Trump plays games. 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...assy-jerusalem

----------


## pseudolus

what basically happened was that Bibi the Butcher got his rentboy PA to call Trump. Called him on a Sunday morning when he was still coked off his nut. "Boss sez you need to move US embassy to Jerusalem. Do it, boy, or else" or something like that. Trump tweets it, it's picked up by the biblebashing retards, and then the press. The last advisor with more brains than flake grabbed him by the shoulders and reminded him his job was to start a endless war in Asia against the Chinese and to stop irritating the rag heads. So now he is back tracking.

----------


## Klondyke

> Originally Posted by *Klondyke* 
> _In NYC live much more Jews than in Israel._





> Apart from the fact that NY has 1 700 000 Jews and Israel has 6 300 000 Jews , you are incorrect


OK, I am correcting, not in NYC but in USA (almost, but I did not count them):

_The number of Jews in the United States has been the subject of much debate because of questions over counting methodology. In 2012, Sheskin and Dashefsky put forward a figure of 6.72 million based on a mixture of local surveys, informed local estimates, and US census data. They qualified their estimate with a concern over double counting and suggested the real figure may lie between 6 and 6.4 million.[20] Drawing on their work, the Steinhardt Social Research Institute released their own estimate of 6.8 million Jews in the United States in 2013.[21]_ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish...ion_by_country



1 Israel            6,336,400 44%
2 United States  5,700,000 39.5%
Jewish Population of the World


     The worldwide Jewish population is 13.3 million Jews.  Jewish population growth worldwide is close to zero percent. From 2000 to 2001 it rose 0.3%, compared to worldwide population growth of 1.4%.

      In 2001, 8.3 million Jews lived in the Diaspora and 4.9 million lived in Israel. Just about half of the worlds Jews reside in the Americas, with about 46 percent in North America.   (top)

      Approximately 37% of worldwide Jewry lives in Israel. Israel's Jewish population rose by 1.6% the past year, while the Diaspora population dropped by 0.5%.

      Europe, including the Asian territories of the Russian Republic and Turkey, accounts for about 12 percent of the total. Fewer than 2 percent of the worlds Jews live in Africa and Oceania. 

      Metropolitan Tel Aviv, with 2.5 million Jews, is the world's largest Jewish city. It is followed by New York, with 1.9 million, Haifa 655,000, Los Angeles 621,000, Jerusalem 570,000, and southeast Florida 514,000.

The top twelve Jewish populations in the world are:

1.            USA                                                       6,500,000
2.            Israel                                                       4,950,000          
https://www.simpletoremember.com/vit...population.htm

----------


## HermantheGerman

I can understand if some people here have an issue with Jerusalem and Israel. But I get a big laugh when these muslim dictators start to cry like women and treat their OWN people like shit. Let's hear what ErDOGan has to say:

*Turkey's Erdogan threatens cutting ties with Israel over Jerusalem issue*







                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ANKARA - President Tayyip  Erdogan said on Tuesday Turkey could  go as far as breaking off  diplomatic ties with Israel if the United States  formally recognizes  Jerusalem as Israel's capital, a move he said would be a  "red line" for  Muslims.

Erdogan is the latest in a string of regional leaders, including  Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan's King Hussein  to warn of negative implications of the move.

The possibility that Trump may make the announcement has also stirred  opposition from US officials who fear  it could unleash violence.

Such a decision, which US officials have  said has not been finalized,  would violate decades of US policy not to take a  stance on the fate of  Jerusalem on the grounds that this was an issue Israelis  and  Palestinians should negotiate and decide.

If Trump made such a move,  it could spark demonstrations or violence by  Palestinians or by Muslims around  the world, in part because of the  sensitivity of the Jerusalem site known to  Jews as the Temple Mount and  to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif.

Diplomatic officials responded to Erdogan's threats and warnings not to  move the US embassy to Jerusalem, saying, "Jerusalem has been the  capital of the Jewish people for 3000 years, and of Israel for the last  70 - whether Erdogan recognizes that or not."

Israel's Education Minister Naftali Bennett was quick to respond. 

"Unfortunately, Erdogan does not miss an opportunity to attack Israel.  Israel  must advance its goals, including the recognition of United  Jerusalem as the  Capital of the State of Israel," Bennett said in a  statement. "There will always be those who criticize, but at  the end of  the day it is better to have a united Jerusalem than Erdogan's   sympathy."

Transportation and Intelligence Minister Yisrael Katz said that Israel "does not take directives or threats from Turkey."

Israel is a "sovereign state, and Jerusalem is its capital," Katz  said. "There is nothing more historically just or right than to  recognize Jerusalem, which has been the capital of the Jewish people for  3,000 years, as the capital of the State of Israel. The days of the  Sultan and the Ottoman Empire are over."

According   to Channel 10 sources, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told   the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Monday that  Israeli  security forces are prepared for an escalation in violence  should Trump  announce US recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

"We  are prepared for every possibility. The security forces know best  how to  act, if and when it is necessary," Netanyahu is reported to have  told  the committee's members.

Opposition leader Isaac Herzog said the Jewish people's connection to  Jerusalem "cannot be erased," in a statement released on Tuesday.

"Jerusalem  and its holy sites are  the source of the strength and vitality of our  people, its center of  attraction, the object of its dreams and longing  and longing that have  existed for thousands of years. The deep  connection of the  people of Israel and the State of Israel to Jerusalem,  the Temple  Mount, the Western Wall and the Mount of Olives and all the  holy places  of our people can not be erased. Jerusalem has been the eternal capital of the Jewish people for 3,000 years and no one can change it. Not in words or in threats," Herzog said.

_If the U.S. pulls this through, I'am sure the religion of peace will show restrain._  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## pseudolus

> According to Channel 10 sources, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Monday that Israeli security forces are prepared for an escalation in violence should Trump announce US recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.


What this really is that Under Criminal Investigation Bibi the Butcher wants a nice few months of slaughtering women and children in Gaza to take attention away from him for a while, so he told Trump to make the announcement whilst getting the napalm and white phosphorous on order from the Merkins.

----------


## Maanaam

^^ Put all that in context of how diplomatic relations between Turkey and Israel have only recently been restored after they were destroyed when Israel murdered the Marvi Marama passengers in international waters.
It is so very common for people like you, Herman, in your hatred for Muslims, to forget all Israel's atrocities (Nazi-like atrocities ironically).

^ Yes, speaking of atrocities.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ^^ Put all that in context of how diplomatic relations between Turkey and Israel have only recently been restored after they were destroyed when Israel murdered the Marvi Marama passengers in international waters.
> It is so very common for people like you, Herman, in your hatred for Muslims, to forget all Israel's atrocities (Nazi-like atrocities ironically).
> 
> ^ Yes, speaking of atrocities.


What did I do, say or write ?  :Shrug:

----------


## HermantheGerman

> What this really is that Under Criminal Investigation Bibi the Butcher wants a nice few months of slaughtering women and children in Gaza to take attention away from him for a while, so he told Trump to make the announcement whilst getting the napalm and white phosphorous on order from the Merkins.


Atrocities are occurring in Muslim countries EVERY day. FACT !
Every head of State of every Muslim country would be under Criminal Investigation in Israel or any civilized country. FACT !
The TD apologists will blame Israel for these two FACTS  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## RPETER65

> Moot. Ancient or modern history, what gives a religious group the right to displace native Palestinians from their homeland?



The only point I am making here is Psuedolus has no clue of the history of the Jews.

----------


## Wally Dorian Raffles

Dont think it will happen. Just more smoke and mirrors- his only trick

----------


## Fluke

> Don’t think it will happen. Just more smoke and mirrors- his only trick


   When Donald says hes going to do something, he usually does do it 

https://news.sky.com/story/trump-con...nians-11157831

----------


## Maanaam

> Atrocities are occurring in Muslim countries EVERY day. FACT !
> Every head of State of every Muslim country would be under Criminal Investigation in Israel or any civilized country. FACT !
> The TD apologists will blame Israel for these two FACTS


Fact: Atrocities are occuring every day in Palestine, committed by the Israelis.
Fact: Every Prime Minister of Israel throughout history would be under criminal investigation in any other country if he/she were not an Israeli Jew.
Fact: Bringing up Muslim issues in other Muslim countries does not excuse Israel.
Fact: Apologists for Israeli terrorism always divert by bringing up Muslim issues.

----------


## Maanaam

> When Donald says hes going to do something, he usually does do it 
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/trump-con...nians-11157831


Urrrrmmm, firstly, no he rarely does it. The list of unfullfilled promises is long.
Secondly, he's a fkcken idiot for doing this. It is provocative, pointless, and brings more insecurity to the US.
Thirdly, the wanker shows his ignorance once again in saying Jerusalem has been Israeli for 7 decades.
Fourthly....in light of the Russian ties debacle, is he here wagging the dog and diverting attention? I feel Jared is involved, and most certainly there was a deal with Bibi the Butcher.

----------


## Fluke

> ^^ Put all that in context of how diplomatic relations between Turkey and Israel have only recently been restored after they were destroyed when Israel murdered the Marvi Marama passengers in international waters.
> It is so very common for people like you, Herman, in your hatred for Muslims, to forget all Israel's atrocities (Nazi-like atrocities ironically).
> 
> ^ Yes, speaking of atrocities.


  The Turks attacked the Israelis , thats hardly "murder"
If you drive a vehicle into a restricted area and then  attack soldiers after theyve told you to stop, its very likely that they use force to stop you .

----------


## Fluke

> Urrrrmmm, firstly, no he rarely does it. The list of unfullfilled promises is long.
> Secondly, he's a fkcken idiot for doing this. It is provocative, pointless, and brings more insecurity to the US.
> Thirdly, the wanker shows his ignorance once again in saying Jerusalem has been Israeli for 7 decades.
> Fourthly....in light of the Russian ties debacle, is he here wagging the dog and diverting attention? I feel Jared is involved, and most certainly there was a deal with Bibi the Butcher.


  I dont follow what he says much , but he does seem to get things done .
I do agree that its a provocative thing to do and that my be the reason for doing it , unrest will probably be in neighboring Countries and it will have little effect on the USA or Israel , its not as anyone could dislike them anymore than they do now .
   Although he is correct about Jerusalem being Israels capital for the last 70 years , although 70 years ago, it was just West Jerusalem .

----------


## Cujo

*Trump to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move US embassy  White House*
Officials confirm that US president will break with decades of diplomacy in a move many warn will trigger unrest in the region


Donald Trump will declare formal recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel on Wednesday the White House has said, breaking with years of precedent and potentially leading to unpredictable consequences for the Middle East.

The region is braced for the prospect of unrest in anticipation of the declaration, due at 1pm in Washington, and US embassies around the world have been advised by the state department to bolster their security.
US government employees have been told to avoid Jerusalems Old City and the West Bank until further notice.


In his remarks to be delivered in a diplomatic reception room in the White House, Trump will base his decision on ancient history and current political realities that the Israeli legislature and many government offices are in Jerusalem. He will also order the state department to start the process of planning and building a new US embassy in Jerusalem, but White House officials said that process would take at least three years.
Until the new embassy is completed and opened, the official US mission will remain in Tel Aviv and the president will continue to sign a six-month waiver of congressional legislation that demands the embassy is moved, but only to spare the state department from budget penalties embedded in the 1995 act.
Officials made clear that Trump would not follow the practice of his predecessors, who used the waiver to prevent any action on the embassy move to avoid derailing any progress towards an Israeli-Palestinian settlement.
For a long time the United States position held that ambiguity, or lack of acknowledgement would somehow advance the prospects of peace, a senior administration official said.
It seems clear now that the physical location of the embassy is not material to a peace deal. .. So having tried this for 22 years, an acknowledgement of reality seems like an important change.
Trumps declaration will mark the latest unilateral break from US allies on a major issue, after decisions to walk out of the Paris Climate accord, to abandon multilateral trade negotiations with partners in Europe and Asia, and to threaten to abrogate an international nuclear deal with Iran.
In making his decision, following through on an election campaign promise, Trump shrugged off appeals from leaders from France, the EU, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other key allies. They urged him not to prejudge an issue that would be at the heart of any comprehensive deal, which is something his administration has made a foreign policy priority, entrusted to the presidents son-in-law, Jared Kushner.
On the eve of his announcement, Trump made a series of calls to leaders in the region, including Jordans King Abdullah, Egypts President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, King Salman of Saudi Arabia, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the Palestinian persident, Mahmoud Abbas.

Abbass spokesman, Nabil Abu Rdeneh, said the Palestinian leader had warned Trump of the dangers of such a decision to Middle East peace efforts as well as security and stability in the region and the world.
King Abdullah issued a statement telling Trump that such a decision would have dangerous repercussions on the stability and security of the region and would obstruct US efforts to resume Arab-Israeli peace talks.
King Salman was reported by the Saudi Press Agency to have told Trump: Such a dangerous step is likely to inflame the passions of Muslims around the world due to the great status of Jerusalem and the al-Aqsa Mosque.


Kushner, in his role as presidential advisor, has been leading a diplomatic initiative aimed at concluding the comprehensive Middle East deal that has eluded previous admissions. The White House insisted that Trumps announcement would not derail that effort.

Nothing in this decision speaks to a final status resolution, or boundaries or sovereignty issues, a senior administration official said. It doesnt change the status quo with respect to the holy sites and other very sensitive issues.
We are leaving space for the Palestinians, for this peace process to move forward.
Another White House official said the Kushner initiative was making progress even though little had been heard about it.
There are things happening that the people directly involved in the talks know about that people around the world dont know about that will become known when the time is right, the official said. That is one of the reasons that the president is still very optimistic.
However, Middle East experts have questioned the wisdom of the decision.
A better prepared, less clumsy process could have produced an announcement to actually move the embassy to Jerusalem, which is where it belongs, Daniel Shapiro, a former US ambassador to Israel, said.
A smart approach could have used that announcement to reinforce our strategic objective, which is a two-state solution to end the conflict.
Instead the president is leaving us half-pregnant. Israelis deserve to have their capital recognized and our embassy located there. Palestinians need to know that the capital of their state will be in East Jerusalem, Shapiro, now a visiting fellow at the Institute for National Security Studies in Tel Aviv, said.
Instead of being clear on both of these points, the President has chosen a purely rhetorical approach, changing nothing on the ground, but spinning up significant controversy for virtually no gain.
US officials said that building a modern embassy anywhere in the world took three or four years at least, and Jerusalem would be no exception.
In todays world whether we are dealing with the Americas, Africa, Asia, Middle East, we dont just put a plaque on a door and open a mission, a senior official said.
There are major security and structural concerns and very strict guidelines everywhere in the world that have to be followed before that flag goes up and that plaque goes on. Jerusalem is no exception to those rules.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sy-white-house

----------


## Maanaam

> The Turks attacked the Israelis , thats hardly "murder"
> If you drive a vehicle into a restricted area and then  attack soldiers after theyve told you to stop, its very likely that they use force to stop you .


The Marvi Marama was in international waters when boarded by armed Israeli soldiers. Any ship is entitled to defend itself in international waters, besides that fact the boarding pirates were attacked with pipes and slingshots against the pirate's guns.
Nonetheless, my point remains that Israel has only recently resumed diplomatic relations with Israel, and that was only after a $20 million settlement to Turkey (admission of guilt, much?)







> it will have little effect on the USA or Israel , its not as anyone could dislike them anymore than they do now .


True that there is not much more dislike possible.
I'm not so sure about "little effect". This could be a beacon for Islamic terrorists and it will be innocent Americans that die, and I have no doubt whatsoever that Bibi is rubbing his hands with glee at the prospect of yet another intifada whereupon he will slaughter more Palestinians and use the violence as an excuse to demolish more Arab houses in E. Jerusalem, and to increase settlement building. No doubt whatsoever. I'll put money on it.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> I feel Jared is involved....


The only sensible post so far.




> Fact: Apologists for Israeli terrorism always divert by bringing up Muslim issues.


Maybe because its peanuts when comparing.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  
Imagine Muslims would live like Israelis/Jews. NOT KILLING EACH OTHER !

----------


## HermantheGerman

> US President Donald Trump will announce that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel





> And Jacob Zuma will announce that Annapolis is the capital of the US.


Anyone seen Stroller ???? You know, the righteous little Kraut  :smiley laughing:

----------


## HermantheGerman

Well, let's see how Iran and the fanatics will react. Maybe this was just a plan B to provoke Iran and get things blowing.....ahemm going.

----------


## Klondyke

> Imagine Muslims would live like Israelis/Jews. NOT KILLING EACH OTHER !


The Germans also were not killing each other, were they?

----------


## Fluke

[QUOTE=Maanaam;3674383

True that there is not much more dislike possible.
I'm not so sure about "little effect". This could be a beacon for Islamic terrorists and it will be innocent Americans that die,[/QUOTE]

   That is what I meant, its not as if Muslim terrorists are not already attacking Western targets .
Hopefully this will cause terror attacks in the middle east and create more turmoil, maybe even civil war , Saudi and Iran need to start using their weapons against each other .

----------


## Maanaam

> Maybe this was just a plan B to provoke Iran and get things blowing.....ahemm going.


Yes. And isn't that atrocious!!!?? A bit of politicking to urge an enemy to "start" something....abominable. 
Just as I'd wagered above, I don't think this is about Iran, more about Bibi getting an excuse to slaughter more Palistinians. Just as abominable.
And you seem to be cheering it on if it's to provoke Iran. Disgusting.

----------


## Maanaam

> This could be a beacon for Islamic terrorists and it will be innocent Americans that die





> That is what I meant,





> Hopefully this will cause terror attacks


Disgusting bloodlust.
Be ashamed of yourself.

----------


## RPETER65

> Yes. And isn't that atrocious!!!?? A bit of politicking to urge an enemy to "start" something....abominable. 
> Just as I'd wagered above, I don't think this is about Iran, more about Bibi getting an excuse to slaughter more Palistinians. Just as abominable.
> And you seem to be cheering it on if it's to provoke Iran. Disgusting.



Do do you really think Bibi likes killing Palestinians and if so why would he?

----------


## Maanaam

> Do do you really think Bibi likes killing Palestinians and if so why would he?


Lol....hahaha if you have to ask that question.
It's a resounding YES I do think he likes killing Arabs in general, and Palestinians in particular.
Why? Because he's an Israeli Jew dedicated to making Israel a Jewish state that extends from the sea (the Mediteranean) to the river (ostensibly the Jordan, but reputadely the Euphrates). It was in the Likud Party manifesto when he joined the party.
He's shown it again and again in his extermination processes, use of white phosphorous, apartheid practices, and stubborn refusal to parley for peace.

----------


## RPETER65

> Lol....hahaha if you have to ask that question.
> It's a resounding YES I do think he likes killing Arabs in general, and Palestinians in particular.
> Why? Because he's an Israeli Jew dedicated to making Israel a Jewish state that extends from the sea (the Mediteranean) to the river (ostensibly the Jordan, but reputadely the Euphrates). It was in the Likud Party manifesto when he joined the party.
> He's shown it again and again in his extermination processes, use of white phosphorous, apartheid practices, and stubborn refusal to parley for peace.



So you think it has nothing to do with protecting the state of Israel,I just read today four more young Israel kids were killed by Palestinian terrorist,but I guess in your book that is okay as long as it is not Israel killing terrorists.

----------


## harrybarracuda

It's undoubtedly a case of that slimey little fucker Benny convincing fuckwit orange cunto that it will bring him some more votes from the four by two community.

In reality it's just an attempt at normalising Israel land grabs.

And orange cunto fell for it.

He seems to forget a lot of jesus wheezers blame the blue suede shoes for the death of the son of god.

----------


## Maanaam

> So you think it has nothing to do with protecting the state of Israel,I just read today four more young Israel kids were killed by Palestinian terrorist,but I guess in your book that is okay as long as it is not Israel killing terrorists.


I suppose it depends on which news service you read; 4 Israelis killed today, or 20 more hectares of Palestinian land taken over and an East Jerusalem Arab house bulldozed?
Take a step back for a moment.
I have yet to have an Israeli apologist answer this question: If you and your family, and everyone you knew were continually oppressed, had your land and houses taken away, water rights removed so that your family could drink only a few litres a day while 1000 metres away the opressor was watering his lawn and swimming in a pool, and you daily knew of even more oppression in other neighbourhoods on your people, and this had been going on since your grandad was a child, would you be angry and what would you do?
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. In the Palestine scenario, one opressor's terrorist is a downtrodden victim's freedom fighter. Inarguably.

----------


## Topper

...............double post.............

----------


## Topper

> Kushner, in his role as presidential advisor, has been leading a diplomatic initiative aimed at concluding the comprehensive Middle East deal that has eluded previous admissions.


Aren't diplomatic initiatives usually run from the State department?  I'm sure with all of Jared's diplomatic experience, I'm sure he's simply shaming the people at State.

I wonder if he goes in and says, "Hey guys, my wife's daddy said "Stop your bickering and if you don't, I'm going to tell him you're really bad people."

----------


## Maanaam

^^ Let me put it another way. I have no idea where you're from, but it doesn't matter. Lets set the scene in suburban Auckland.

You and Mrs Peters arrive in Auckland as refugees from Zimbabwe. The controlling authority says to me, "Your house is ramshackle, and you've got a vacant lot beside your house that you only use to grow some straggly tomatoes. Therefore, we are kicking you out of your hovel to let Mr and Mrs Peters rebuild it into a nice house. You can pitch a tent in the back yard".
I have no choice. I pitch my tent.
I'm obviusly peeved, but then, to make matters worse, some of your kids start throwing stones at my kids. My kids retaliate, and next thing you pull out my straggly tomato plants and plant your own, citing it's just deserts to me. You have the backing of the controlling authority who not only is powerful, but provides you with weapons.
You then decide to take over some of the back yard, and when I fight with you, you shoot some of my kids and plead to the controlling authority that you need that bit of back yard as a defensive measure against angry old me.
Then whenever one of my kids throws a stone on your roof, you use your weapons and influence with the controlling authority to take over a bit more of the back yard. I'm helpless.
You demolish my tent and tell me to move further back. You plant your own crop where my tent was, and put a restricting valve on the water supply.
Then you cry to the world when one of my kids throws another stone on your roof and demand that the world supports you in punishing me.

Would you, Rpeters, in your heart of hearts, blame me if one of my kids took a swipe at one of your kids?

----------


## Maanaam

> It's undoubtedly a case of that slimey little fucker Benny convincing fuckwit orange cunto that it will bring him some more votes from the four by two community.
> 
> In reality it's just an attempt at normalising Israel land grabs.
> 
> And orange cunto fell for it.
> 
> He seems to forget a lot of jesus wheezers blame the blue suede shoes for the death of the son of god.


Undoubtedly. 
The Jesus wheezers angle is a mystery to me.
What, to me, is more worrying is Benny The Butcher's reason for convincing Orange Cunto to do this. I think it's (as mentioned above) that another itafada will give Benny an excuse to do more ethnic cleansing.

----------


## pseudolus

> Do do you really think Bibi likes killing Palestinians and if so why would he?


Because he is a blood thirsty psychopath thats why.

----------


## Fluke

> I suppose it depends on which news service you read; 4 Israelis killed today, or 20 more hectares of Palestinian land taken over and an East Jerusalem Arab house bulldozed?
> Take a step back for a moment.
> .


   The land seized and the home demolished :
Did that actually happen, or did you just make it up ?

----------


## Maanaam

> The land seized and the home demolished :
> Did that actually happen, or did you just make it up ?


Made it up. It's an example of what goes on all the time.
But certain news media would never report it. Fox News  would never, but should an oppressed Palestinian at his wits end succumb to violence against an Israeli, Fox would be all over it.
That was the point.

Mind you, having said that, I'm certain that if I did the research I could show that the land grabs probably do amount to 20 hectares per Israeli killed. Almost certainly much more. I'm being very conservative.
And it's not chicken and egg. The land grabs result in Palestinian hatred, it's not the other way around.

----------


## Topper

I'm personally proud of Trump....

He defied his own State department....

He ignored the intelligence estimates of the harm his decision could bring to American interests....

He ignored the counsel of many world leaders ...... 

What's the upside for America in his decision again, other than being seen as an internationals douchebage?

----------


## Fluke

> Made it up. It's an example of what goes on all the time.
> But certain news media would never report it. Fox News  would never, but should an oppressed Palestinian at his wits end succumb to violence against an Israeli, Fox would be all over it.
> That was the point.


   Where does it get reported ?
Or do you just imagine that it happens and use your imagination as facts ? ?

----------


## Maanaam

^^ You've framed it very well. There is no upside for America.
This is something that Kushner-Netanyahu are behind.
I think your question should be asked: What is the upside for the US?

----------


## Maanaam

> Where does it get reported ?
> Or do you just imagine that it happens and use your imagination as facts ? ?


Come on, are you that blind?
If you insist, I can probably point you to hundreds of reports. Are you saying houses don't get bulldozed, that land grabs do not occur.
Stop being pedantic. It's common knowledge.

----------


## Fluke

> Come on, are you that blind?
> If you insist, I can probably point you to hundreds of reports. Are you saying houses don't get bulldozed, that land grabs do not occur.
> Stop being pedantic. It's common knowledge.


    OK, show me 100s of reports
The land build for settlements gets purchased, not grabbed

----------


## pseudolus

gets grabbed you dick. They rock up, kick the Palestinian people out of their houses and farms, put white european settlers in, or build on land stolen from them. You really are a fucking moron if you think the israeli scum BUY land from Palestinians. Jackass!

----------


## Fluke

> gets grabbed you dick. They rock up, kick the Palestinian people out of their houses and farms, put white european settlers in, or build on land stolen from them. You really are a fucking moron if you think the israeli scum BUY land from Palestinians. Jackass!


  You sound like Nazi propaganda from the 1930s and you also have no idea what you are talking about

----------


## pseudolus

> You sound like Nazi propaganda from the 1930s and you also have no idea what you are talking about



So lets get this straight. You think that a Palestinian, whose only way of surviving it farming his land, would sell that land so that the israel government could build a load of houses on it, to put in a load of rancid racid eastern european crimnals and misfits who will then destroy their lives? You actually believe this? 

Moron.

From a Jewish Israeli paper, and the ZIonist Washington Post. Happy FLAKE you moron?

----------


## pseudolus

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.770102 

What do you mean by “so far”? Would the law, if passed and upheld, allow settlement on private Palestinian land in the future?
Potentially, yes. The measure would empower the justice minister to add more settlements and outposts to the list of areas *where property may be seized from Palestinians,* with the approval of the Knesset’s Constitution, Law and Justice Committee.
read more: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.770102

----------


## pseudolus

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.f935f6dc86fd

Israel passes bill to seize private Palestinian land for Jewish settlements

JERUSALEM — Israel’s parliament passed a contentious law late Monday *t**hat allows the state to seize land privately owned by Palestinians*in the West Bank and grant the properties to Jewish settlements for their exclusive use.
The measure is designed to protect homes in Jewish settlements, built on private Palestinian property “in good faith or at the state’s instruction,” from possible court-ordered evacuation and demolition.

----------


## pseudolus

From a Jewish Israeli paper, and the ZIonist Washington Post. Happy FLAKE you moron? 



> You sound like Nazi propaganda from the 1930s and you also have no idea what you are talking about


No FLAKE, you are too thick to get this. YOU are like  a german supporting the Nazis, turning a blind eye to their murderous rampages, ethnic cleansing, ignoring ALL proof and holding onto the hollow words and lies tossed out by a group of blood thirsty psychopathic bastards. 

You are the nazi lover. the Zionists are the Nazis. Same group who funded Hitler also funds the Zionists. Same fucking people you moron.

----------


## Farangrakthai

pardon the thread hi-jack:  i was strongly supporting the palestinians in the peace talks during the clinton admin and think clinton left it till his last days in office and then gave arafat a "take it or leave it" deal that he couldn't accept, regarding the holy sites in jerusalem, etc.   since then, this has been used by zionists to say: "see, the palestinians don't want a deal, blah, blah, blah."

when the peace talks were going on (or the day before), bombs would blow up in jerusalem killing jews (and it was right wing israelis who did it, blaming it on palestinians, IMO).  these right wing jews are very radical and want to take over all of the west bank and make it part of israel over decades (not make a peace deal with the palestianians/ arab world (like the arab initiative which offered israel peace with the arab world in return for land (pre-1967 borders).

the right wingers in israel were lucky, they had the neo-cons in america who were on their side (they were called "the crazies in the basement" during the reagan admin). 

during the clinton admin they started pnac (calling on clinton to invade and take out saddam).  they also had the "clean break" plan which called for taking down iraq, syria, lybia, iran, etc. 

luckily, the right wingers in israel would no longer have to kill jews in israel to block peace talks as the neo-cons took power with the bush admin and since the invasion of iraq, the pnac plans and clean break plans have been put into place. 

except obama blocked the iran plans and trump/russia is blocking the syria plans.

*****back to regular programming.

----------


## Topper

> i was strongly supporting the palestinians in the peace talks during the clinton admin and think clinton left it till his last days in office and then gave arafat a "take it or leave it" deal that he couldn't accept, regarding the holy sites in jerusalem, etc. since then, this has been used by zionists to say: "see, the palestinians don't want a deal, blah, blah, blah."



Thank fuck trump is different!

----------


## Farangrakthai

good question, topper:




> Originally Posted by Farangrakthai
> 
> 
>  and trump/russia is blocking the syria plans.
> 
> 
> Thank fuck trump is different!


hillary pushed obama to take down kaddafi and that was a terrible mistake as the country is now a disaster (right wing israelis must be laughing at europeans who were supporting the palestinans, now have millions of muslims who went though libya to europe, some of them being terrrorists). 




> Originally Posted by Farangrakthai
> 
> 
>  and trump/russia is blocking the syria plans.
> 
> 
> Thank fuck trump is different!


actually, trump campaigned on taking out issis in syria, otherwise leaving it up to syria and so far (except for dropping a bomb on an airport for chem weapons accusations) that is true.

if hillary were in charge, the neo-con plan would have been going to completion:  chemical weapons charges = take out assad and bomb the fuck out of the capital.

you know that's true, right topper?

----------


## pseudolus

> i was strongly supporting the palestinians in the peace talks during the clinton admin and think clinton left it till his last days in office and then gave arafat a "take it or leave it" deal that he couldn't accept, regarding the holy sites in jerusalem, etc. since then, this has been used by zionists to say: "see, the palestinians don't want a deal, blah, blah, blah."


The oslo accord was a one sided pile of crap written by israel and forced on Palestine. There was no accord, no agreement, and israel certainly NEVER kept to any side of it. A direct response to the oslo accord was Hamas being voted in, because it became clear that politicians were corrupted and were never truly fighting the Palestinians side, and only cashing the israeli cheque. CLinton, like his wife, is and was a zionist cvnt.

Where has FLAKE fvcked off to? Done a PIWI? Shown to be nothing more than a racist brainless moron, so ducks out for a while, and will come back swinging his hasbara bullshit in a few days time?

----------


## Farangrakthai

> The oslo accord was a one sided pile of crap written by israel and forced on Palestine.


yep, though, the palestinians were on firm ground, till 911 (ooh, gasp, was a conspiracy by the neo-cons).

----------


## pseudolus

No they weren't. They were being systematically robbed and cheated of their country with the US playing the henchman and supplying the guns. Call

----------


## Farangrakthai

i actually think the neo-cons (pnac, clean break) were behind 911.  though, i debated that many times years ago and can't be bothered now.

----------


## pseudolus

Guarantee it. 100%

----------


## Maanaam

> The measure is designed to protect homes in Jewish settlements, built on private Palestinian property in good faith or at the states instruction, from possible court-ordered evacuation and demolition.


You didn't highlight this important distinction.
The measure is made so that in the event of outside influence (eg as part of a peace deal) or manifestly injust (within Israeli law) eviction of the Palestinians, the eviction can not be reversed or appealed.
So in other words Israel creates laws to justify it's evictions of Palestinians, and then creates another law to make the evictions immutable. (Because they know it's wrong and ilegal in international law). The stroke of a pen, and Palestinian opression is "legal".

----------


## Hugh Cow

Just when I thought Trump couldn't get any dumber. The tragedy is the Palestinians can scarcely be any worse off than they were before, as Israel gradually annexes what little Palestinian land is left.

----------


## Klondyke

Although none of the friendly countries are excited to change their embassy (no funds available) - as Bibi urge them - neither the closest friends from UK (give them some time to think about it) - the Kingdom of Tonga welcomes the invitation, will start asap...

----------


## aging one

Something is wrong with trump, listen to him slur or lisp his speech about the move at the end..

https://splinternews.com/did-you-not...uri-1821055139

----------


## Klondyke

^ But how kind of him - and atmost generous - that the peace process Israel - Palestina, lays very heavily on his heart (and of his advisers either).

----------


## Neverna

^^ Does Trump wear false teeth? Seems they were falling out.

----------


## Thai3

> Just when I thought Trump couldn't get any dumber. The tragedy is the Palestinians can scarcely be any worse off than they were before, as Israel gradually annexes what little Palestinian land is left.


The so called Palestinians have hardly helped their cause after refusing a homeland in 1948, rather lager than they would ever get now. After attacking Israel and getting their arses kicked Israel gave them the Gaza strip back, after giving up Sinai and those lying violent Muslims just used it as a base to continue attacks against Israel. So who in their right mind would give those fukers any more land back? in any case it is not and never was about land, it was always about religion and the Muslim hate for and continued attempts to destroy Israel. Trump is right and it should have been done years ago, no other president had the balls though until now.

----------


## Fluke

> The so called Palestinians have hardly helped their cause after refusing a homeland in 1948, rather lager than they would ever get now. .


  The Palestinians were trying to steal the Israelis land , and they still are .
The Palestinians wanted to and still want to take Israels land .
They failed and as a result, they lost any land that they were entitled too .

----------


## bsnub

> The so called Palestinians


Great way to start an objective post.  :Pat:

----------


## sabang

Well good, drumpf has gone along and done it, so it's official now. America is part of the problem, not part of the solution. But we've known that for years- thanks for your honesty at least, donald.

So the adults can stand up and start playing a larger and more vital role, now that the US has officially abdicated after so many years of abject failure and mendacity in both Palestine and the ME in general.

Bring it on, Vladimir and the (so far) utterly useless EU. We look forward to hearing from you- and I hope China helps provide some useful muscle too. 

Go home yankee, just like The donald said. You are really not welcome anywhere, except by despots that want to use your expensive armoury (paid for by the US taxpayer, tehe) to bomb innocent civilians and prolong conflicts.

----------


## Maanaam

> The Palestinians were trying to steal the Israelis land , and they still are .


When?




> The Palestinians wanted to and still want to take Israels land .


Do you mean the land the British took from native Palestinians and gave to European refugees, or land the Israelis subsequently stole off native Palestinians?




> They failed and as a result, they lost any land that they were entitled too


So might is right? In the 20th and 21st centuries? Despite international treaties, conventions, and law?

You must be just trolling on this thread. First of all claiming ignorance of Israeli landgrabs, and now this. I can't believe you actually believe anything you're writing on this topic, it's just so wrong, misinformed, and counter to common knowledge.

----------


## Fluke

> Bring it on, Vladimir and the (so far) utterly useless EU. We look forward to hearing from you- and I hope China helps provide some useful muscle too. 
> 
> .


   Yes, Russia who annexed the Crimea and China who annexed Tibet and who treat the Crimeans and Tibetans much worse than Israel treats the Palestinians should complain about the USA moving their Embassy to Jerusalem .
  Just wondered , why the pro Palestinian supporters are not so fervently supportive of the Crimeans and the Tibetans and the numerous other peoples who have lost their land over the years .

----------


## Fluke

> When?
> 
> 
> .


   Palestinians were offered land and a Country in 1948 , which they rejected , they wanted the land what was given to Israel . Thay wanted Israels land .
    The Hamas charter states that they want ALL the land , all the land which Israel stands on .
They want to steal Israels land

----------


## cyrille

> Palestinians were offered land and a Country in 1948 , which they rejected , they wanted the land what was given to Israel . Thay wanted Israels land .
> The Hamas charter states that they want ALL the land , all the land which Israel stands on .
> They want to steal Israels land


It's like a precocious three-year-old impersonating Henry Kissinger.

Unsettling.

Hard to know how to react.

----------


## Fluke

> Do you mean the land the British took from native Palestinians and gave to European refugees, or land the Israelis subsequently stole off native Palestinians?
> 
> .


   The British didnt take land from anyone , Britain didnt even want to be there .
The Turkish Ottoman empire ruled the whole area for 400 years and when the Ottoman Empire fell , Britain was left ruling the area, Britain were there for a mere 20 or so years between the two World Wars .
   At the end of WW2 , Britain left the M.E. and let the U.N sort the mess out .

----------


## Fluke

> Hard to know how to react.


  Just do your usual one liner which says nothing .
If you have nothing to say, dont say anything , no need to post

----------


## Maanaam

> Palestinians were offered land and a Country in 1948 , which they rejected , they wanted the land what was given to Israel . Thay wanted Israels land .
>     The Hamas charter states that they want ALL the land , all the land which Israel stands on .
> They want to steal Israels land


"Israelis land" is the land the British decided European Jews could take over from the native Palestinians.
The Likud charter wants all the land from the Med to the Euphrates!




> The British didnt take land from anyone


No, they didn't take, they just gave it away.

----------


## Fluke

> "Israelis land" is the land the British decided European Jews could take over from the native Palestinians.
> No, they didn't take, they just gave it away.


   The British were in the middle of the disagreement , they neither sided with the Jews or Palestinians , it was a three way disagreement .
  Jews were attacking UK military...............do read up in history .
I cannot explain to you 100 years of history in TD posts

----------


## Farangrakthai

> The British didnt take land from anyone , Britain didnt even want to be there .


i'm sure you've heard of the balfour declaration, right?




> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
> 
> The declaration was contained in a letter dated 2 November 1917 from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour to Lord Rothschild, a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland. The text of the declaration was published in the press on 9 November 1917.
> 
> 
> Immediately following their declaration of war on the Ottoman Empire in November 1914, the British War Cabinet began to consider the future of Palestine.
> 
> The Balfour Declarationwas a public statement issued by the British government during World War Iannouncing support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, then an Ottomanregion with a minority Jewish population. It read:

----------


## Fluke

> First of all claiming ignorance of Israeli landgrabs, and now this. I can't believe you actually believe anything you're writing on this topic, it's just so wrong, misinformed, and counter to common knowledge.


   80 % of the land which the settlements are built on is private land paid for by the Israelis .
Some of the land has been legally disputed about who owns it

----------


## Fluke

> i'm sure you've heard of the balfour declaration, right?



he intended boundaries of Palestine were not specified, and the British government later confirmed that the words "in Palestine" meant that the Jewish national home was not intended to cover all of Palestine.

----------


## sabang

> why the pro Palestinian supporters are not so fervently supportive of the Crimeans and the Tibetans and the numerous other peoples who have lost their land over the years .


Yet more bullshit from the forums least respected poster, and liar held in the most contempt.

Crimea voted in a parliamentary referendum, by an overwhelming majority, to reunite with Russia- hardly surprising really, as they are Russian, and Ukraine had just suffered a bloody and violent illegal coup. Needless to say, they are full Russian citizens with all of the rights and obligations that entails. There was no bloodshed to speak of (2 deaths in a gunfight)- a distinct contrast to the failing state of Ukraine.

Tibet is more complex- for example, it is uncertain whether the average Tibetan would vote for separation or not. It would possibly be a close call. But a Tibetan is a full citizen of China too, and indeed Tibet is a designated SEZ within China.

The illegally occupied Palestinians however, who have continuously inhabited their land through the millennia, have no such rights of Israeli citizenship, or even freedom of movement. I've rather given up on the two state solution really- it is a standard apartheid struggle and should be treated as such by the rest of the world. America has nothing to do with it anymore, except by being a major funder of this tyranny.

----------


## sabang

> 80 % of the land which the settlements are built on is private land paid for by the Israelis .


Bullshit. Got any link to support your outrageous statement, or are you just gonna lie down and admit that you blew this out of your arse.

----------


## Klondyke

> Bring it on, Vladimir ...


I think that the Vladimir is just sitting back and has a good laugh seeing how his friend Don is stirring more and more sht around himself...

----------


## sabang

Yes, I'm sure of it- but in the vacuum created by Americans farcical and hypocritical policies in the Middle East, he has also become the primary peace broker and 'fix it' man in the region. America, meanwhile, has been emasculated by it's failed policies in Iraq, Syria, Israel & Palestine, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan and so on. The Donald is right on one thing- Go Home. Preferably, build a wall to keep them inside..

----------


## Klondyke

> 80 % of the land which the settlements are built on is private land paid for by the Israelis .
> Some of the land has been legally disputed about who owns it


*Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms*
14 Delegations in Favour of Resolution 2334 (2016) as United States Abstains
SECURITY COUNCIL
7853RD MEETING (PM) 23 December 2016

The Security Council reaffirmed this afternoon that Israel’s establishment of settlements in Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, had no legal validity, constituting a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the vision of two States living side-by-side in peace and security, within internationally recognized borders.
https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

----------


## Fluke

delete

----------


## Fluke

The land was purchased legally in 1925

----------


## sabang

^ Is that supposed to mean something?  :yerman: 

Well OK, here's a photo of Dubai, then and now:-



Sensible people will be aware of a few obvious things, such as-

That is within Dubai, a sovereign state. It was not built in a neighbouring country over the objection of the indigenous people, and the native inhabitants were not dispossessed and persecuted.

If it were, it would remain illegal to this day, and would not be 'owned' by Dubai at all- rather just illegally occupied by it.

----------


## Fluke

> It was not built in a neighbouring country over the objection of the indigenous people, and the native inhabitants were not dispossessed and persecuted.


   My photos of the settlement were also not built in a neighboring Country , Israel didnt even exist in 1925 .
It was a legal land purchase there were no people dispossessed or persecuted , "Jews cannot live in the West Bank" , I hear you cry"
Why not, they bought the land legally .
   The only people who were persecuted and oppressed were the inhabitants of Gush Etzioan, who got massacred by the Arabs

----------


## Fluke

> Yet more bullshit from the forums least respected poster, and liar held in the most contempt.
> Tibet is more complex- for example, it is uncertain whether the average Tibetan would vote for separation or not. It would possibly be a close call. But a Tibetan is a full citizen of China too, and indeed Tibet is a designated SEZ within China.
> 
> .


   You are liar who has no idea what he is talking about .
Han Chinese are despised by ethnic Tibetans , Beijing destroyed something like 80 % of the Tibetan monasteries and  persecuted them, causing many to flee to India and Beijing flooded Tibet with Han Chinese .
   Chinese are despised in Tibet , no one cares because Chinese are not Jews

----------


## Fluke

> Yet more bullshit from the forums least respected poster, and liar held in the most contempt.
> 
> .


  Who the hell do you think that you are ?
Teakdoors spokesman ?
Have you taken upon yourself to speak for the whole of Teakdoor ?
You do come across as being rather small minded and ignorant and have a set mind "If America would stop bombing Iraq, then terrorist would stop terrorism" kind of simplistic outlook on life  .
   Do you have any real life experiences of these places ?
Have you been to Israel, the West bank , Gaza and Tibet to see for yourself ?
Or do you just get your info from like minded ignorant websites ?

----------


## Fluke

> . But a Tibetan is a full citizen of China too,


  Palestinian Arabs within Israel are also full Israel citizens with equal rights .
Jordan, when they ruled the West bank gave everyone there Jordanian citizenship , apart from the Jews living in the West bank , they were not offered Jordanian citizenship .
   Jordan has since relinquished any claims it had to the West bank , they should have taken all their citizens with them, when they left , then there would no be any issues .

----------


## Thai3

> *Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms*
> 14 Delegations in Favour of Resolution 2334 (2016) as United States Abstains
> SECURITY COUNCIL
> 7853RD MEETING (PM) 23 December 2016
> 
> The Security Council reaffirmed this afternoon that Israel’s establishment of settlements in Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, had no legal validity, constituting a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the vision of two States living side-by-side in peace and security, within internationally recognized borders.
> https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm


Arab invasions and war preparations against Israel had no legality either, Israel was and does have a right to self defense. They should never give the west bank up to those murdering lying bastard Arabs

----------


## RPETER65

> Yes, I'm sure of it- but in the vacuum created by Americans farcical and hypocritical policies in the Middle East, he has also become the primary peace broker and 'fix it' man in the region. America, meanwhile, has been emasculated by it's failed policies in Iraq, Syria, Israel & Palestine, Somalia, Libya, Afghanistan and so on. The Donald is right on one thing- Go Home. Preferably, build a wall to keep them inside..



If Putin is the fixer in the region why hasn’t he settled the Israel-Palestine issues?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> If Putin is the fixer in the region why hasn’t he settled the Israel-Palestine issues?


That's an easy one.




> Today, the Russia's portfolio of weaponry orders from the countries of the region is $8 billion. In 2017, the Russian defence industry has been making major inroads in the Middle East and North Africa. Bahrain, Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Tunisia are interested in purchasing Russian weapon systems.

----------


## Klondyke

> Arab invasions and war preparations against Israel had no legality either, Israel was and does have a right to self defense


*The Real Reason Israel Attacks Gaza*
Gaza in Context argues that Israels repeated onslaughts are not aimed at Hamas or the coastal enclave. Theyre aimed at Palestine.

It has been two years since Israel launched one of its most brutal attacks on the Palestinian people of Gaza. For 51 days, Israel waged a ground and aerial attack on a besieged population and killed nearly 2,200 Palestinians, including 1462 civilians, of whom 551 were children; orphaned 1,500 children; left 370,000 children in need of psychosocial treatment; completely destroyed 18,000 homes; and, at the height of the onslaught, displaced half a million Palestinians. During the onslaught, 67 Israeli soldiers and six civilians were killed.

Despite overwhelming evidence of the disparity of power between Israel and Palestinians of Gaza, mainstream American media have repeatedly framed Israel as the victim, and critical pedagogical approaches continue to be policed, as demonstrated by the incendiary campaigns targeting Joseph Massad, Nadia Abu El-Haj, and others. For decades, the mainstream narrative has cast Gaza as the problem, even as Israel has engaged in excessive and brutal force and collective punishment in the form of occupation, siege, and frequent military assaults. This conversation has led to the treatment of Israels assaults on the coastal enclave as a national security issue, exceptional and distinct from the broader question of Palestine.

https://www.thenation.com/article/th...-attacks-gaza/

----------


## pseudolus

Flake talking out of his arse as usual? 

Land Grab: Israel's Settlement Policy in the West Bank | B'Tselem




> Taking Control of the Land
> 
> Israel has used a complex legal and bureaucratic mechanism to take control of more than fifty percent of the land in the West Bank. This land was used mainly to establish settlements and create reserves of land for the future expansion of the settlements.The principal tool used to take control of land is to declare it "state land." This process began in 1979, and is based on a manipulative implementation of the Ottoman Lands Law of 1858, which applied in the area at the time of occupation. Other methods employed by Israel to take control of land include seizure for military needs, declaration of land as "abandoned assets," and the expropriation of land for public needs. Each of these are based on a different legal foundation. In addition, Israel has assisted private citizens purchasing land on the "free market."


They do not PAY for land. They take it. This is from B'Tselem who are pretty much impartial, are Israeli and Jewish! 

FLAKE .... FLAKE .... FLAKE ....

----------


## AntRobertson

Flake is either TDs best troll or worst.

Or both. They may in fact be the same thing.

----------


## Maanaam

> Palestinian Arabs within Israel are also full Israel citizens with equal rights .


Rubbish. They are second class citizens.
Just a few examples off the top of my head: Fertility programs run by the government are for Jews only.  Arabs wanting to buy a house are vetted by the neighbourhood and have almost no right to appeal whereas Jews are not vetted by the neighbours. They are limited in their representation in the Knesset. 

Here's a T-shirt the Israeli army gave it's soldiers.... Pregnant Muslim women killed are a good thing, eh?








> Israel was and does have a right to self defense.


Agreed. But it does not have a right to annex conquered territory nor to build settlements, nor to continue to expand.

----------


## Dragonfly

Jewish settlers stop paying for land since 1920s, and decided to go into war over the land

don't you guys were taught history in the classroom,

a few people in this thread didn't finish high school, obviously

----------


## Maanaam

> My photos of the settlement were also not built in a neighboring Country , Israel didnt even exist in 1925 .


Yeah, so what? Nobody denies there were Jews in the larger area forever. A minority for thousands of years. That does not give Britain the right to give a large portion of the area to Europeans.

----------


## AntRobertson

May 22, 2017
Sebastian Gorka: “If any president over the last 40 years can bring peace to this part of the world, it is Donald J. Trump”

Dec 6, 2017
Donald J. Drumpf: 'Hold my beer...'

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=11954790

----------


## pseudolus

> Flake is either TDs best troll or worst.
> 
> Or both. They may in fact be the same thing.


Piwi, bitter old racist moron that he was, was more or less just simply trolling and winding people up. FLAKE on the other hand, bitter racist moron that he is, is not trolling. He really believes the bullshit he writes, thinks we are all wrong because legendary bitter old racist fool RPETER agrees with him, and he has to educate us to the hasbara so we agree with him. 

I am proud though that me calling Flake FLAKE has stuck and become his username now. He used to get really angry about it. Now he's accepted that he is indeed a flake.

----------


## RPETER65

> That's an easy one.



Are you saying all this weaponry will solve the problems between Israel and Palestine,or are you just hoping Israel gets obliterated?

----------


## RPETER65

> Yeah, so what? Nobody denies there were Jews in the larger area forever. A minority for thousands of years. That does not give Britain the right to give a large portion of the area to Europeans.



Jews from Europe.

----------


## Klondyke

*Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany
*
Helen Amelia Thomas (August 4, 1920  July 20, 2013) was an American reporter and author best known for her longtime membership in the White House press corps. She covered the White House during the administrations of ten U.S. presidentsfrom the start of the Kennedy administration to the second year of the Obama administration.

When asked for comments on Israel, she replied: "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine." and "Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not German, it's not Poland..." When asked where Israeli Jews should go, she replied they could "go home" to Poland or Germany or "America and everywhere else. Why push people out of there who have lived there for centuries?" When accused of being an anti-Semite, she responded that she is a Semite, having an Arab background.

*CNN Helen Thomas 'Jews don't have the right to take other people's land'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_cUpxT884

*

----------


## Fluke

> I am proud though that me calling Flake FLAKE has stuck and become his username now. He used to get really angry about it. Now he's accepted that he is indeed a flake.


   You are once again just believing your own imagination .
You claimed tat I get "really angry" about you calling me "FLAKE"
What are you basing those claims on ?
What brings you to believe that ?
Or is it just because you think that I do and you then state that as a fact ?
Is this a case of you believing your own imagination without any reality behind your thoughts ?

----------


## RPETER65

> Piwi, bitter old racist moron that he was, was more or less just simply trolling and winding people up. FLAKE on the other hand, bitter racist moron that he is, is not trolling. He really believes the bullshit he writes, thinks we are all wrong because legendary bitter old racist fool RPETER agrees with him, and he has to educate us to the hasbara so we agree with him. 
> 
> I am proud though that me calling Flake FLAKE has stuck and become his username now. He used to get really angry about it. Now he's accepted that he is indeed a flake.



Rpeter is no more racist than you are,nor is he bitter,bitter is what you excel at.

----------


## lom

> Flake is either TDs best troll or worst.
> 
> Or both. They may in fact be the same thing.


or a Looper sock

----------


## Maanaam

> Jews from Europe.


With no connection to the land except that God promised it to them by dint of their religion.
You still haven't answered (as have no Israeli apologists ever) the question about what would YOU do if your home that you and your ancestors had lived in forever was forcibly taken from you? Would you turn the other cheek, qe sera sera?

----------


## Maanaam

> *Helen Thomas tells Jews to go back to Germany
> *
> Helen Amelia Thomas (August 4, 1920 – July 20, 2013) was an American reporter and author best known for her longtime membership in the White House press corps. She covered the White House during the administrations of ten U.S. presidents—from the start of the Kennedy administration to the second year of the Obama administration.
> 
> When asked for comments on Israel, she replied: "Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine." and "Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not German, it's not Poland..." When asked where Israeli Jews should go, she replied they could "go home" to Poland or Germany or "America and everywhere else. Why push people out of there who have lived there for centuries?" When accused of being an anti-Semite, she responded that she is a Semite, having an Arab background.
> 
> *CNN Helen Thomas 'Jews don't have the right to take other people's land'
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_cUpxT884
> ...



At 4:15 she put it in a nutshell: "I can say anything I want about the President of the United States, but say one word against the Israelis or Jews and it's off-limits"
This is a phenomenon that I've seen for many years. Somehow (because of the holocaust maybe?), any person can be a horrid bigot and say racist things against blacks, Asians, South Americans et al, but is a more horrid bigot simply by criticising Israel. Why is that, even when the criticism is truth and valid and not bigotted?

----------


## Maanaam

^ I don't know why my comments do not show.
At 4:15 she put it in a nutshell: "I can say anything I want about the President of the United States, but say one word against the Israelis or Jews and it's off-limits"
This is a phenomenon that I've seen for many years. Somehow (because of the holocaust maybe?), any person can be a horrid bigot and say racist things against blacks, Asians, South Americans et al, but is a more horrid bigot simply by criticising Israel. Why is that, even when the criticism is truth and valid and not bigotted?

----------


## Fluke

> Yeah, so what? Nobody denies there were Jews in the larger area forever. A minority for thousands of years. That does not give Britain the right to give a large portion of the area to Europeans.


   Go and learn some history .
The UK tried to stop Jews leaving Europe to go and live in Israel .
The British navy send holocaust survivors back to Germany from Israel waters

o one can accuse history of not having a sense of irony. Sixty-three years ago, in July 1947, a passenger ship destined for Palestine and named the Exodus was stopped and boarded by the British navy. The ship was crowded with Holocaust survivors determined to make a new life for themselves in British-controlled Palestine. The British, facing Zionist terrorism and trying to keep promises made to the Palestinian Arabs to limit Jewish immigration, were determined to stop it. Accordingly, when the Royal Navy boarded the ship 20 miles out from Haifa, a full-scale battle ensued.
Three immigrants were killed and dozens injured as British troops beat the passengers on to three separate prison ships. From there these Holocaust survivors were transported back to Germany and were once again placed in camps. The world was horrified; an American newspaper ran the headline "Back to the Reich". Delegates from the UN Special Commission on Palestine who watched what occurred were similarly shocked; the Yugoslav delegate cited that what happened to the Exodus "is the best possible evidence we have for allowing Jews into Palestine"

----------


## Maanaam

^ Whatever. Balfour Declaration aside. The end result is what we have now, and it is of European Jewry displacing the native Palestinian population. False justifications aside, that is the situation.

----------


## RPETER65

> With no connection to the land except that God promised it to them by dint of their religion.
> You still haven't answered (as have no Israeli apologists ever) the question about what would YOU do if your home that you and your ancestors had lived in forever was forcibly taken from you? Would you turn the other cheek, qe sera sera?



No no I have not answered the question as there is a question of who's ancestors have lived in this area for years,and did the land really belong to the people who call themselves Palestinians as before World War One it was part of the Ottoman Empire,which at the end of the Ottoman Empire was broken up and part of it became Israel. So why don't you say this land felons to the Ottomans as it seems it was really taken from them.

----------


## pseudolus

> Palestinian Arabs within Israel are also full Israel citizens with equal rights .


https://www.adalah.org/en/law/index

Bollocks - Discrimination is enshrined in law. Equal? You are a moron. It is an apartheid state, pure and simple, yet bellends like you think it is not, despite the clearly written LAWS that make it such.

----------


## pseudolus

> No no I have not answered the question as there is a question of who's ancestors have lived in this area for years,and did the land really belong to the people who call themselves Palestinians as before World War One it was part of the Ottoman Empire,which at the end of the Ottoman Empire was broken up and part of it became Israel. So why don't you say this land felons to the Ottomans as it seems it was really taken from them.



Very selective memory these hasbara BS artists have, EH? Chuck in a couple of lies as well, and hope no one notices. 

So what came before the Ottoman empire then, sunny? Palestine is derived from the GREEK for Philistia. 1200 BC or something like that. Just like to airbrush that little factoid out, don't ya? 

What is most surprising about PALESTINE is that for thousands of years it has indeed been a clearly defined area with almost the same name, unlike the vast majority of the region which was just empty land with a few towns and cities and pockets of power within it. It was the british who made all these countries up with a map and a ruler, gifting families like the Sauds a huge area. This does not negate the fact that long before that, Palestine existed and was doing just fine until the Zionist terrorists decided they wanted it for their own.

----------


## Maanaam

> This does not negate the fact that long before that, Palestine existed and was doing just fine until the Zionist terrorists decided they wanted it for their own.


In a nutshell.






> No no I have not answered the question as there is a question of who's ancestors have lived in this area for years,and did the land really belong to the people who call themselves Palestinians


How far back do you want to go? 
The questiona was, what would you feel and do if the land you and your daddy and his daddy before him and his daddy before him ad infinitum was taken away from you.
What would you do when after countless generations of your ancestors had lived and farmed a place were told, "Hey raghead, fuck off...there are people who by dint of their religion and their god's promise who, although they have a place to live in Europe, want to live on your land...so piss off."
That IS the real situation, and what would you do?

----------


## pseudolus

> That IS the real situation, and what would you do?


send more money to his Merkin TV evangelist and follows his orders.... that's what this nutcase would do.

----------


## pseudolus

> Palestine existed and was doing just fine until the Zionist terrorists decided they wanted it for their own.


Menachem Begin, later to become Prime Ministers of Israel, was once universally recognized as a terrorist by the British government. The Wanted poster below includes Menachem Begin. A terrorist. A white Polish Terrorist.

----------


## Fluke

> https://www.adalah.org/en/law/index
> 
> Bollocks - Discrimination is enshrined in law. Equal? You are a moron. It is an apartheid state, pure and simple, yet bellends like you think it is not, despite the clearly written LAWS that make it such.


 Goodbye Pragmatic, I knew that it was you, but I gave you another chance, you have shown once again that you cannot talk without being abusive . Join your other handle on my ignore list

----------


## Fluke

> With no connection to the land except that God promised it to them by dint of their religion.
> You still haven't answered (as have no Israeli apologists ever) the question about what would YOU do if your home that you and your ancestors had lived in forever was forcibly taken from you? Would you turn the other cheek, qe sera sera?


 We are not talking about my home.Lets keep on topic and talk about what the O.P is about .
Its a much too complex situation to make comparisons to peoples personal homes

----------


## Fluke

> What would you do when after countless generations of your ancestors had lived and farmed a place were told, "Hey raghead, fuck off...there are people who by dint of their religion and their god's promise who, although they have a place to live in Europe, want to live on your land...so piss off."
> That IS the real situation, and what would you do?



   I would say to him "Ooo da fukk u calling a raghead ? u wanna row or sumthing, come on then, me and u outside naaaaww

----------


## Maanaam

> We are not talking about my home.Lets keep on topic and talk about what the O.P is about .
> Its a much too complex situation to make comparisons to peoples personal homes


The current discussion between us was started with you condemning Palestinains attacking Isrealis, so I asked the question: what would YOU do.
Answer that before you condemn Palestinain freedom fighters.

As per normal, when Israeli apologists are faced with real questions that would affect themselves, they divert.

----------


## RPETER65

> Very selective memory these hasbara BS artists have, EH? Chuck in a couple of lies as well, and hope no one notices. 
> 
> So what came before the Ottoman empire then, sunny? Palestine is derived from the GREEK for Philistia. 1200 BC or something like that. Just like to airbrush that little factoid out, don't ya? 
> 
> What is most surprising about PALESTINE is that for thousands of years it has indeed been a clearly defined area with almost the same name, unlike the vast majority of the region which was just empty land with a few towns and cities and pockets of power within it. It was the british who made all these countries up with a map and a ruler, gifting families like the Sauds a huge area. This does not negate the fact that long before that, Palestine existed and was doing just fine until the Zionist terrorists decided they wanted it for their own.



Like I said it was the Ottomon Empire before the British stepped in so why don’t you talk about the destruction of the Ottoman Empire which would be the last entity to have control of the entire area before the British took over.

----------


## Maanaam

> Like I said it was the Ottomon Empire before the British stepped in so why don’t you talk about the destruction of the Ottoman Empire which would be the last entity to have control of the entire area before the British took over.


Whatever. Whoever was "in control". Why do European Jews have a right to displace the natives?

----------


## Fluke

> The current discussion between us was started with you condemning Palestinains attacking Isrealis, so I asked the question: what would YOU do.
> Answer that before you condemn Palestinain freedom fighters.
> 
> As per normal, when Israeli apologists are faced with real questions that would affect themselves, they divert.


How can you really claim that I was "diverting" .
You made up a simplistic hypothetical situation for myself and asked how I would react .
  I suggested that we dont make-up hypothetical situations and stick to what really is happening .
I suggested that we stay on-topic, if anyone was diverting, it was you.

----------


## Fluke

> Whatever. Whoever was "in control". Why do European Jews have a right to displace the natives?


  Because Israel is a Jewish state , you know, a State for Jewish people.
Israel, as a sovereign legitimate state can accept any immigrants it chooses, just like any other Country

----------


## aging one

> Like I said it was the Ottomon Empire before the British stepped in so why don’t you talk about the destruction of the Ottoman Empire which would be the last entity to have control of the entire area before the British took over.


So this ended with a wimper what 97 years ago? Lets talk about WW1 its later.....

----------


## RPETER65

> Whatever. Whoever was "in control". Why do European Jews have a right to displace the natives?



Why hey did anyone have the right to displace the Ottomons.

----------


## Topper

What gives me a laugh is how the news coverage is now about how trump has pissed off the entire ME outside of Israel.  

It's a great example of how the US government is working now.  

I wonder if this is hastening Tillerson's departure.

----------


## Maanaam

> How can you really claim that I was "diverting" .
> You made up a simplistic hypothetical situation for myself and asked how I would react .
>   I suggested that we dont make-up hypothetical situations and stick to what really is happening .
> I suggested that we stay on-topic, if anyone was diverting, it was you.


No. the point, my point, was how can you condemn Palestinain freedom fighters when you refuse to empathise?







> Because Israel is a Jewish state , you know, a State for Jewish people.
> Israel, as a sovereign legitimate state can accept any immigrants it chooses, just like any other Country


Doh! We were talking in the context of the 1940's!!
Now we have a declared religiously based state that is stealing neighbouring lands because it has the support of the powerful US.

----------


## Maanaam

> Why hey did anyone have the right to displace the Ottomons.


FFS. We are in the 21st century with international laws and conventions.
Extend your apparent argument and you should probably be displaced or killed by the indegenous people of wherever you come from.

----------


## Maanaam

> I wonder if this is hastening Tillerson's departure.


No, it's doing Kushner's and Bibi's bidding while at the same time diverting the press from the Russian ties debacle.
I am certain that is 45's sole purpose in this.

----------


## Fluke

> Doh! We were talking in the context of the 1940's!!
> Now we have a declared religiously based state that is stealing neighbouring lands because it has the support of the powerful US.


Jews were living on that land, as they had been continuously for 2500 years , as had other people .
The land was under Turkish rule for 400 years and then British rule for 20 years , when the British left, the U.N decided to split the Country between the Jews and the Palestinians , as the Palestinan rejected their land, which included the west Bank, that land was taken over by Jordan, Jordan then relinquished rule over that land, rendering it vacant, Israel stepped in an took it .
   Over 50 % of the West banks land had no owners, it was Government land, Israel took some of it

----------


## AntRobertson

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/12...s-part-mexico/

----------


## Maanaam

> Jews were living on that land, as they had been continuously for 2500 years , as had other people .
> The land was under Turkish rule for 400 years and then British rule for 20 years , when the British left, the U.N decided to split the Country between the Jews and the Palestinians , as the Palestinan rejected their land, which included the west Bank, that land was taken over by Jordan, Jordan then relinquished rule over that land, rendering it vacant, Israel stepped in an took it .
>    Over 50 % of the West banks land had no owners, it was Government land, Israel took some of it


The Israel created by Europeans and which displaced the natives.
The Israel that decided it would take over lands that were not apportioned to "Israel".

So, what of the natives, and what of Israel's current, for the last 50 years, oppressing the natives, stealing their orchards and water?

^ Haha, good one and accurate.

----------


## Fluke

> The Israel created by Europeans and which displaced the natives.
> .


   More wrong things .
Israel was created by the U.N. The whole World voted .
No Palestinians in Israel were displaced, they were all given Israeli citizenship , there are now 1 million Palestinian Arabs living happily in Israel . Israel proper that is, not the west bank or gaza

----------


## Fluke

> The Israel created by Europeans and which displaced the natives.
> .


   More wrong things .
Israel was created by the U.N. The whole World voted .
No Palestinians in Israel were displaced, they were all given Israeli citizenship , there are now 1 million Palestinian Arabs living happily in Israel . Israel proper that is, not the west bank or gaza

----------


## Neverna

> Like I said it was the Ottomon Empire before the British stepped in so why dont you talk about the destruction of the Ottoman Empire which would be the last entity to have control of the entire area before the British took over.


The Turks don't want the Ottoman Empire back. 

And by the way, it wasn't just Britain. France helped out too.  :Smile:

----------


## Fluke

> The Israel that decided it would take over lands that were not apportioned to "Israel".
> 
> .


   It wasnt really a "decision"
Syria, Egypt and Jordon, who ruled those lands simultaneously attacked Israel, with the intention of wiping Israel off the map . Israel fought back and took those lands, after the rulers ran away

----------


## Neverna

> More wrong things .
> Israel was created by the U.N. The whole World voted .
> No Palestinians in Israel were displaced, they were all given Israeli citizenship


 :rofl:

----------


## Fluke

> The Turks don't want the Ottoman Empire back.


   Jordon doesnt want the West bank  back either.

----------


## Norton

Burn baby burn. Protests aka riots across the mid east are well under way. The divider in chief has set off a shit storm. What an ignorant asshole he is. He won't be so fucking cocky when his ill thought out action comes back to bite the US in the ass with more terrorist attacks. More fuel for terrorist recruiters. Smooth move Exlax.

----------


## pseudolus

> Goodbye Pragmatic, I knew that it was you, but I gave you another chance, you have shown once again that you cannot talk without being abusive . Join your other handle on my ignore list


That's funny - Piwi used to block me as well when he was proven unequivocally to be wrong and nothing but a racist moron. 


... and no, I am not Prag. I had that fecker on block once myself as well.

----------


## Klondyke

> Syria, Egypt and Jordon, who ruled those lands simultaneously attacked Israel, with the intention of wiping Israel off the map . Israel fought back and took those lands, after the rulers ran away


Recently, I have posted here a link to documentary of Al Jazeera about Swedish Count Bernadotte who had mediated the Israel - Palestine problems.

Folke Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg (2 January 1895  17 September 1948) was a Swedish diplomat and nobleman. During World War II he negotiated the release of about 31,000 prisoners from German concentration camps including 450 Danish Jews from the Theresienstadt camp. They were released on 14 April 1945.[1][2][3] In 1945, he received a German surrender offer from Heinrich Himmler, though the offer was ultimately rejected.

After the war, Bernadotte was unanimously chosen to be the United Nations Security Council mediator in the ArabIsraeli conflict of 19471948. He was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 by the militant Zionist group Lehi while pursuing his official duties. Upon his death, Ralph Bunche took up his work at the UN, but was removed from the post around six months after Bernadotte was assassinated, at the critical period of recognition of the fledgling state.

Bernadotte wrote that: "in putting forward any proposal for the solution of the Palestine problem, one must bear in mind the aspirations of the Jews, the political difficulties and differences of opinion of the Arab leaders, the strategic interests of Great Britain, the financial commitment of the United States and the Soviet Union, the outcome of the war, and finally the authority and prestige of the United Nations."[30]

Bernadotte was assassinated on Friday 17 September 1948 by members of the armed Jewish Zionist group Lehi (commonly known as the Stern Gang or Stern Group).

It is alleged that a three-man 'center' of Lehi had approved the killing: Yitzhak Yezernitsky (the future Prime Minister of Israel Yitzhak Shamir), Nathan Friedmann (also called Natan Yellin-Mor) and Yisrael Eldad (also known as Scheib). A fourth leader, Emmanuel Strassberg (Hanegbi) was also suspected by the Israeli Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion of being part of the group that had decided on the assassination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte

----------


## Dragonfly

> Burn baby burn. Protests aka riots across the mid east are well under way. The divider in chief has set off a shit storm. What an ignorant asshole he is. He won't be so fucking cocky when his ill thought out action comes back to bite the US in the ass with more terrorist attacks. More fuel for terrorist recruiters. Smooth move Exlax.


his son in law is apparently doing the ME foreigner policy, all unofficial, direct backdoor with Israel

where is the "uproar" for interfering in this US administration and possibly the US election ?

----------


## Neverna

Paddy Ashdown‏Verified account 
@paddyashdown
 17h17 hours ago
Jerusalem: for the first time in all the long years of the American century we now have in the White House a reckless and ignorant American President. The world is an even more dangerous place tonight.

https://twitter.com/paddyashdown

----------


## wasabi

The main aim of the Israelie people is to rebuild the Jewish Temple that Solomon originally built back in the same exact place in Jerusalem .
Trouble is, a Mosque is squatting on the mount.

----------


## Dragonfly

exactly, and the good news is that once it's rebuilt, the real Jesus Christ will come to earth and kill everyone 

fucking awesome  :Smile:

----------


## Maanaam

> More wrong things .
> Israel was created by the U.N


Are you being deliberately obtuse? Without that bunch of Zionist Europeans there would not have been an Israeli state.




> No Palestinians in Israel were displaced, they were all given Israeli citizenship , there are now 1 million Palestinian Arabs living happily in Israel


We've been over this. The Arab Israelis are far from happy being treated as 2nd class citizens.






> Syria, Egypt and Jordon, who ruled those lands simultaneously attacked Israel


Get your history right. Israel attacked first. So-called "preemptively" but it was with great relish that they took over the land.






> The main aim of the Israelie people is to rebuild the Jewish Temple that Solomon originally built back in the same exact place in Jerusalem .
> Trouble is, a Mosque is squatting on the mount.


Yes. It's going to get nasty because the ultra-orthodox has Bibi compliant, and Bibi has no regrets in being compliant to them.

----------


## Fluke

> Are you being deliberately obtuse? Without that bunch of Zionist Europeans there would not have been an Israeli state.
> 
> 
> We've been over this. The Arab Israelis are far from happy being treated as 2nd class citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get your history right. Israel attacked first. So-called "preemptively" but it was with great relish that they took over the land.
> ...


   No it wasnt a bunch of Zionist Europeans that created the Israeli state , it was the U.N. who cast the vote to create an Israeli state , if the vote would have been "no, then there would not have been an Israeli state created .
   Israeli Palestinian Arabs are NOT treated as second class citizens , they are treated exactly the same as Jewish Israelis .
Six Arab countries amassed 230 000 soldiers on Israeli borders, or close to them and its intentions were to wipe Israel off the map . That is a declaration of war, it doesnt matter who fired the first bullet

----------


## PeeCoffee

Israel is now what...one-third the size of Ireland. Not an argument, just a fact.

Geronimo complained in 1848 about his and other native indigenous people losing their lands in what is now Southern California, Arizona, New Mexico and southern Utah. (Not so funny that.)

Yup. The Ottomans ruled for centuries. "Palestinians ?"

Brits have a lot to answer for since 1922 orchestrating "West of the Jordan River a Jewish State, East of the Jordan an Arab State" (Transjordan) and then totally farking up their 25-year Mandate in 1947. 

Many "Palestinians" who weren't "Jewish" (ie: people living under British rule) got shafted.
Sadly for them the citizens of a State founded 70 years ago aren't walking away.
Sadly their Arab and Islamic brothers knowingly would rather leave the majority stateless on Israel's hands in economic hardship as opposed to accepting them throughout the Arab world. 

Trump announcing his "intention" to move the US Embassy to Jerusalem. Well, well the _Art of the Deal_...trying to 'strong arm' a path forward. 
Does this news change history ?
No. But it might move the goal posts.

The Assyrians in 7th-century BCE and then the Roman in 1rst-century AD decimated the Kingdom of Israel and the Jews residing in Samaria, Judea and vast parts of what is now known as Israel with Jerusalem.
Time marches on.

----------


## Maanaam

> No it wasnt a bunch of Zionist Europeans that created the Israeli state , it was the U.N. who cast the vote to create an Israeli state , if the vote would have been "no, then there would not have been an Israeli state created .
>    Israeli Palestinian Arabs are NOT treated as second class citizens , they are treated exactly the same as Jewish Israelis .
> Six Arab countries amassed 230 000 soldiers on Israeli borders, or close to them and its intentions were to wipe Israel off the map . That is a declaration of war, it doesnt matter who fired the first bullet


Read again and try to understand. If it were not for a bunch of European Zionists Israel would ne ver have been created by the UN.
Israeli Arabs are certainly treated in practice and in law as 2nd class citizens...we've been over this.
Israel attacked. No question. Couched as pre-emptive, it was nonetheless Israel that attcked and in doing so created war.

Enough of your spin.

----------


## Fluke

> Read again and try to understand. If it were not for a bunch of European Zionists Israel would ne ver have been created by the UN.
> Israeli Arabs are certainly treated in practice and in law as 2nd class citizens...we've been over this.
> Israel attacked. No question. Couched as pre-emptive, it was nonetheless Israel that attcked and in doing so created war.
> 
> Enough of your spin.


   Maybe that is true, who knows, but the fact is that Israel was created by the U.N.
No one can say how history would have panned out without the Balfour declaration , Israeli Arabs live by the same laws as Israeli Jews , there is no difference .
   Israel, like most other Countries has one law for everyone .
Israel was taking defensive measures against the quarter of a million hostile troops on its borders .
The hostile troops were there for a war , its was the massing of troops which caused the war , Israel just obliged with their wish for war

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Haven't bothered to read the thread, which is really of no interest to me, but how does the US get to choose the capital of another nation? What if Israel declared Hog Holler, Arkansas the capital of the US? (Actually, might be an improvement over DC).....

----------


## AntRobertson

> but how does the US get to choose the capital of another nation?


It's more the case that they just recognized it officially. 

Israel has long claimed Jerusalem as the capital but to avoid being seen to be taking sides and inflaming the issue the US had its embassy at Tel Aviv.

And then, well, Trump.  :Very Happy:

----------


## jabir

> Israel is now what...one-third the size of Ireland. Not an argument, just a fact...


Size does not matter, it was dar al-Islam which means it cannot legally be ceded without a fight and subsequent efforts for recovery. Same goes for most of Iberia, southern France and Italy, Switzerland, Malta, Sicily and every other part of dar al-Islam that according to scripture was stolen by the infidel. 

While there is no discernible jihad directed at recovery of the stolen lands in Europe, due to military and political realities, these are still on the agenda for later on. In the case of Palestine, however, it is right in the middle of dar al-Islam, does not enjoy international support, and many other factors also make it a realistic target for recovery.

If the message distresses you don't blame the messenger, leave that to the usual subjects.

----------


## jabir

> Haven't bothered to read the thread, which is really of no interest to me, but how does the US get to choose the capital of another nation? What if Israel declared Hog Holler, Arkansas the capital of the US? (Actually, might be an improvement over DC).....


Israel chose Israel's capital, not the US. As Ant said, Trump just recognised it.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^^^ & ^ Got it, thanks. Obviously Israel isn't high on my interest list.

----------


## PeeCoffee

The message you wrote Jabir doesn't distress me in the least.

Surely "Bring It On" has been discussed as well (probably behind closed doors).

----------


## harrybarracuda

This article basically says that if you were ever going to do it, now is the time. The author makes some good points.

(And before our resident whackjobs go off on one, I would prefer to give the Israelis and Arabs a month to clear out and nuke the fucking place. Let's see them fight over it then).




> There's something cathartic about acknowledging an obvious reality that you've had to deny for years for the sake of peace. You refuse to go to your in-laws for the holidays because your father-in-law is a bore and your mother-in-law is a terrible cook. Your mother is never going to have grandchildren because you are gay and don't want to raise a child that isn't biologically yours. Your kid has no interest in fulfilling your long-abandoned dreams of being a musician, and when he admits it, you realize you love him less for it.
> And Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.
> The diplomatic landscape is littered with unresolved conflicts, and in many cases the United States has resolutely refused to recognize the obvious. We have never acknowledged that there are two Koreas, for example; there is no American embassy in Pyongyang. For decades we claimed that the only legitimate Chinese government was on Taiwan; then we claimed it existed but were agnostic on where it lived; then we acknowledged it was in Beijing, but refused to say that Taiwan was either a province of China or an independent state. We recognized Kosovo, but not Abkhazia or North Cyprus — or Palestine.
> Jerusalem has, for decades, held a similar officially indeterminate status — though the fiction was paper thin. Presidents routinely visited Jerusalem on their trips to Israel, politicians across the American spectrum professed their support for Israel and the indivisibility of Israel's sovereignty in Jerusalem (including 
> 
> ), and, since 1995, the official policy of the United States Congress has been that the American embassy should be moved to Jerusalem. But the official _position_has been that the status of Jerusalem is subject to final negotiation between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.
> Not anymore.
> President Trump's declaration on Wednesday that the American embassy would be moved to Jerusalem was somewhat less momentous in formal terms than is generally being suggested. President George W. Bush had already acknowledged that "facts on the ground" had to be taken into account in final status negotiations, which was generally understood to be an endorsement of the Israeli position that large settlement blocks would have to be incorporated into sovereign Israel as part of any deal. It's inconceivable that Ma'ale Adumim would become part of Israel while Jerusalem would revert to a _corpus separatum_. And Trump himself left open negotiation over the boundaries of Israeli Jerusalem.
> But the declaration is not meaningless. At a minimum, Trump's candor deserves to be matched by candor in return. The United States has, for decades, postured as something resembling an honest broker, or at least a power that stood sufficiently above the fray to look after the interests of both sides to the conflict to some degree. This fiction has also seemed paper thin at times, and should now be discarded.
> ...


The ugly truths about President Trump's Jerusalem declaration

----------


## pseudolus

Nice as it is to see you posting someone actually on topic, it is a shame that it is your typical garbage. A neocon wank mag? Well, hardly surprising with your tenuous grip on world affairs due to your CNN addiction. There are no good points to that article. It is all bollocks.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Nice as it is to see you posting someone actually on topic, it is a shame that it is your typical garbage. A neocon wank mag? Well, hardly surprising with your tenuous grip on world affairs due to your CNN addiction. There are no good points to that article. It is all bollocks.


Fuck knows how you'd know that, you can barely understand something unless it's written in crayon.


Here's a picture, perhaps you can understand that, little whackjob.

----------


## terry57

Can't see what the problem is.  ??????

The Donald is only gunna be around another 3 years and then when a new guys gets in they can just move it back again.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Can't see what the problem is.  ??????
> 
> The Donald is only gunna be around another 3 years and then when a new guys gets in they can just move it back again.


As the article I posted said, the GCC, who are the biggest funders of the Palestinians, have bigger fish to fry right now, so I doubt they give a shit. In fact they're surreptitiously cozying up to the blue suede shoes to try and stop Iran stirring this shit as usual.

----------


## Fluke

> As the article I posted said, the GCC, who are the biggest funders of the Palestinians, have bigger fish to fry right now, so I doubt they give a shit. In fact they're surreptitiously cozying up to the blue suede shoes to try and stop Iran stirring this shit as usual.


  The shit from Tehran have enough shit to deal with dealing with the shit from Riyadh , they dont need any more shit dealing with this shit about Jerusalem , if the shit from shit get involved with this shit, then the shits really going to hit the shitty fan

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The shit from Tehran have enough shit to deal with dealing with the shit from Riyadh , they dont need any more shit dealing with this shit about Jerusalem , if the shit from shit get involved with this shit, then the shits really going to hit the shitty fan


You're a just a fucking simpleton really, aren't you?

I mean too-mind-numbingly-dull-and-stupid-to-even-keep-a-fucking-bar-slapper-interested simpleton.

----------


## Fluke

> You're a just a fucking simpleton really, aren't you?
> 
> I mean too-mind-numbingly-dull-and-stupid-to-even-keep-a-fucking-bar-slapper-interested simpleton.


   After this story broke last week, all the Worlds dimwits asked on-line "What right does Trump have to name other Countries Capital city"
  Everyone with any understanding of World affairs all replied"Jerusalem is already the Capital of Israel" The whole World seemed to understand that.........then three days later, you come and ask the same question, which makes you the last person in the world to know, which makes you the worlds stupidest person .
   7 Billion people in the world, and there you are , last in the queue

----------


## jabir

deleted

----------


## Neverna

Actually, I don't totally blame Trump for this. For sure, he's an idiot with no thought for anybody but himself and his ego but the trigger was set by the US Congress in 1995. 

So Trump can share the blame with these 92 senators: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...n=1&vote=00496

and these 374 congressmen: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1995/roll734.xml

----------


## jabir

deleted

----------


## jabir

> After this story broke last week, all the Worlds dimwits asked on-line "What right does Trump have to name other Countries Capital city"
>   Everyone with any understanding of World affairs all replied"Jerusalem is already the Capital of Israel" The whole World seemed to understand that.........then three days later, you come and ask the same question, which makes you the last person in the world to know, which makes you the worlds stupidest person .
>    7 Billion people in the world, and there you are , last in the queue


Harry don't listen to him you're not last in the queue, yesterday I asked a bg what she thought of it and drew a blank, same for her opinion on the chances of a fair Brexit trade deal. Flukey stop exaggerating.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> After this story broke last week, all the Worlds dimwits asked on-line "What right does Trump have to name other Countries Capital city"
>   Everyone with any understanding of World affairs all replied"Jerusalem is already the Capital of Israel"



No they didn't, only silly little fuckers like you.

Most countries will not recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel unless it is part of a negotiated settlement between the Israelis and Palestinians, you fucking moron.

No wonder your bargirl left you, you must have driven her crackers with your endless torrent of nonsense.

----------


## pseudolus

> Actually, I don't totally blame Trump for this. For sure, he's an idiot with no thought for anybody but himself and his ego but the trigger was set by the US Congress in 1995. 
> 
> So Trump can share the blame with these 92 senators: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...n=1&vote=00496
> 
> and these 374 congressmen: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1995/roll734.xml



You dismiss TRUMP at your peril. He is not an idiot. He is simply in the employ of israel. A lot of CEOs take the flack for the decisions of the board / major share holders. That's all he is doing. His reward will be to be properly rich and all his dodgy dealings and rape to be forgotten about

----------


## PeeCoffee

_The Art of the Deal_ (1987)...this is how Donald Trump _negotiates_.

----------


## Fluke

> No they didn't, only silly little fuckers like you.
> 
> Most countries will not recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel unless it is part of a negotiated settlement between the Israelis and Palestinians, you fucking moron.
> 
> No wonder your bargirl left you, you must have driven her crackers with your endless torrent of nonsense.


  Listen, let me explain .
A Country, any Country can declare its own Capital city and it doesnt matter whether any other Country recognises that, it makes no difference .
   West Jerusalem is Israeli land, no disputes about that from anyone, (apart from the Israel has no right to exist Brigade ) and that isnt negotiable
   East Jerusalem is the disputed land .
May I ask you a general knowledge question Harry ?
What is the Capital city  of Israel ?

----------


## sabang

Anyway, time to let the adults back in the room. As Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said, it changes nothing. The proposed site of the proposed future US embassy (which may or may not go ahead) is safely inside Israel, in west Jerusalem. Probably some bellwether Arab state should, in a tit for tat gesture, recognize east Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine. But it also would change nothing.

It may even prove useful, now that the US has put some air between themselves and the peace process- after all, they have only ever stuffed it up, certainly since Camp David, and damaged their reputation as an international hegemon in the process. "Partner for Peace" my arse- they have only ever ran interference for the criminal Israeli government in recent history. Let the adults back in, and just maybe some progress will be made- but as far as I'm concerned the one state solution (combined Israel/Palestine) looks the only feasible option now. 

As long as the occupied Palestinian people are finally granted their legal and human rights, and worldwide diplomatic recognition of Israel, Israeli passports, plus the further opening up of trade links ensues- it's job done as far as I'm concerned. One state or two- rhubarb.

----------


## Fluke

> but as far as I'm concerned the one state solution (combined Israel/Palestine) looks the only feasible option now. 
> As long as the occupied Palestinian people are finally granted their legal and human rights, and worldwide diplomatic recognition of Israel, Israeli passports, plus the further opening up of trade links ensues- it's job done as far as I'm concerned. One state or two- rhubarb.


   Yep, I think that you've found the solution to the problem there Sabang .
I suggest that you send your idea to the Israeli Government and the Palestinian leadership and also to MR Trump and the U.N
They have probably not thought about that "solution" before .
Send an E-mail to the above mentioned people .
There is a new round of peace talks due to be held soon and they might invite you to the meeting to broker a peace deal between the warring factions .
  If its successful and I see no reason as to why it shouldnt be, YOU may even get named "Time, man of the year"and you may even receive a Noble peace prize .
  Get those E-mails sent right away, we have no time to lose .
You may stop the whole middle east going up in flames

----------


## sabang

Meanwhile, trumps approval rating hits a new low:-  :Smile: 

Trump's 32-percent approval rating is a new low in the Pew poll. The group's most recent survey, conducted in October, found Trump held a 34 percent approval rating after three consecutive surveys dating back to February measured his approval rating at 39 percent.

The 63 percent of Americans who disapprove of Trump's job as president is the highest Pew has measured in the poll, topping a previous high of 59 percent in Pew's October survey.


Trump's approval among Republicans has fallen since February. The poll finds that 76 percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning voters approve of Trump's job as president compared to 84 percent in February.

Trump has also lost support among other key groups in the past eight months, according to the poll.
Forty-one percent of white Americans say they approve of Trump compared to 49 percent in February. His support among white evangelical Protestants has also dropped from 78 percent in February to 61 percent in the December survey.


The poll also finds Trump's approval rating at this point in this presidency sits far lower than his recent predecessors. The next-lowest approval rating at this point in a presidency belongs to former President Bill Clinton, who held a 48 percent approval rating in 1993.


Former President Obama held a 49 percent approval rating at this point during his first term in 2009, and 80 percent of Americans approved of former President George W. Bush's job as president in 2001 after Bush received a surge in approval following the September 11, 2011 terrorist attacks.


The poll was conducted from November 29 to December 4 among 1,503 adults.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

And of course, trumps latest trumpism has gone down like lead balloon at home-



_The decision is not popular at home, either. Trump’s own Department of Defense and Secretary of State_ _tried to talk him out of it,__ according to multiple reports._ _Just 16% of Jewish-Americans favor unilaterally moving the embassy to Jerusalem__, which Palestinians also claims as their capital, according to a survey of “American Jewish Opinion”_ _taken in September.__ Overall,_ _63% of Americans__ oppose the move.
_https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp

Onya Donald, you tell 'em.  :smiley laughing:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Listen, let me explain .


Like you explained about "Jordon" you feeble-minded chump.

Just STFU Fluke, you haven't got a fucking clue.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> as far as I'm concerned the one state solution (combined Israel/Palestine) looks the only feasible option now.


Which is exactly what you've got and it's causing misery for millions. Plus the ones that have to listen to Fluke trying to wrap his empty little head around it.

----------


## Fluke

> May I ask you a general knowledge question Harry ?
> What is the Capital city  of Israel ?


   Are you finding that question a bit difficult Harry ?
I tell you what I will do, I will give you a multiple choice question :

  Harrybarracuda, for the 10 Shekel question :
What is the Capital of Israel ?
Is it :
A . New York 
B. Tel Aviv
C. Cape Towm
D. Jerusalem

----------


## pseudolus

> Are you finding that question a bit difficult Harry ?
> I tell you what I will do, I will give you a multiple choice question :
> 
>   Harrybarracuda, for the 10 Shekel question :
> What is the Capital of Israel ?
> Is it :
> A . New York 
> B. Tel Aviv
> C. Cape Towm
> D. Jerusalem



Miami.

----------


## sabang

Flake, what is the capital of Palestine?

1- Riyadh
2- Ramallah
3- Tel Aviv
4- Jerusalem

----------


## Fluke

> Flake, what is the capital of Palestine?
> 
> 1- Riyadh
> 2- Ramallah
> 3- Tel Aviv
> 4- Jerusalem


   Can I phone a friend ?
"Sure can Fluke, who would you like to call"
"I would like to call my mate Harrybarracuda, hes an expert on these things "
"Ring ring, ring ring, ring ring............"

----------


## buriramboy

Fluke were you that guy i was reading about who had a head transplant?

----------


## Fluke

> Fluke were you that guy i was reading about who had a head transplant?


    Yes, although I provided the bottom half

----------


## wasabi

> Are you finding that question a bit difficult Harry ?
> I tell you what I will do, I will give you a multiple choice question :
> 
>   Harrybarracuda, for the 10 Shekel question :
> What is the Capital of Israel ?
> Is it :
> A . New York 
> B. Tel Aviv
> C. Cape Towm
> D. Jerusalem


 All of them have large Jewish communities but they are not the Capital, 

Washinton DC
is.

----------


## Neverna

Trump Tower.

----------


## wasabi

> Trump Tower.


That will be the new Solomon rebuilt Temple on the mount. Trump will accend to heaven from there one day.
Americas first Prophet .

----------


## Takeovers

There can be no peace until the Palestineans accept Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel. In return Israel will have to accept a Palestinean State with also Jerusalem as Capital. 

A Capital of two states.

----------


## pseudolus

> Can I phone a friend ?
> "Sure can FLAKE, who would you like to call"
> "I would like to call my mate Harrybarracuda, hes an expert on these things "
> "Ring ring, ring ring, ring ring............"



Fixed that for you... oh and harrynomates most certainly would be anyone's "call a friend" because that fvcker, like you, has no friends.

----------


## pseudolus

> All of them have large Jewish communities but they are not the Capital, 
> 
> Washinton DC
> is.



I would have said Tel Aviv is the capital of USA

----------


## Klondyke

Al-Jazeera just airing Live from UNSC...

(Cannot find it on VOA)  :Smile:

----------


## CaptainNemo

> Listen, let me explain .
> A Country, any Country can declare its own Capital city and it doesnt matter whether any other Country recognises that, it makes no difference .
>    West Jerusalem is Israeli land, no disputes about that from anyone, (apart from the Israel has no right to exist Brigade ) and that isnt negotiable
>    East Jerusalem is the disputed land .
> May I ask you a general knowledge question Harry ?
> What is the Capital city  of Israel ?


This is just the media spinning a relocation of an embassy into meaning something that it can't possibly mean.
Bolivia's got two capitals and one embassy... the embassy is the manifestation of the relationship between two countries, and it doesn't really matter where it is; and often there'll be several consulates and other sub branches...
The Jerusalem embassy act was reportedly passed in 1995, so go on about it is a bit disingenuous - why did Obama chicken out of it?

As for ownership, it's so obvious that Jerusalem can't really be a functional capital of a state, as it's a major religious centre, and the most reasonable rational solution is for Jerusalem to become a UN supported city state, along the lines of the Vatican. IT would have been a good model for Constantinople too. That has no bearing on Israel's right to exist or not, and is absolutely negotiable, and you can't just pretend like it isn't a problem to . Britain has a stronger claim to running Jerusalem than Israel, given that Israel was founding by an illegal revolt against the British protectorate.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> The Israel created by Europeans and which displaced the natives.


Hey listen you silly Schmuck ! Show me one country, I repeat, just one country in this world where so called natives have not been displaced ? Hungary, Canada, China, Germany, France, Myanmar, Russia maybe you want to try Mars....Jupiter ?
Now why should the Palis get a bonus for being displaced?
We all know dam well if it was the other way around Jews and Christians would not  get a break (from your muzzie brothers) what so ever.
If so......please name a Muslim country where so. 
Jews and Christians are being oppressed in every muslim country in this world....and that is a FACT ! Schmuck!

----------


## Maanaam

> Hey listen you silly Schmuck ! Show me one country, I repeat, just one country in this world where so called natives have not been displaced ? Hungary, Canada, China, Germany, France, Myanmar, Russia maybe you want to try Mars....Jupiter ?
> Now why should the Palis get a bonus for being displaced?
> We all know dam well if it was the other way around Jews and Christians would not  get a break (from your muzzie brothers) what so ever.
> If so......please name a Muslim country where so. 
> Jews and Christians are being oppressed in every muslim country in this world....and that is a FACT ! Schmuck!


I don't usuallu resort to name calling (except for the resident jerk), and I'm sorely tempted to bring myself down to your level here, but I won't.

Your argument about displaced natives is hollow. What happened 200 or 2000 years ago has nothing to do with events since the UN, the Geneva Convention, and International Law were established.
Same goes for your silly "Well Muslims persecute Jews elsewhere, thus Jews are allowed to persecute Muslims in Palestine". Actually, I give you credit here in that you are essentially admitting that the Palestinians are persecuted, which is a step up from Fluke's refusal to do so.

BTW, there are plenty of countries where natives have never in history been displaced. Almost all of the Pacifica countries (a dozen or so ?), and I suspect a few African countries. No bonus to the Palestinians, but just because it happened many times in the past does not justify European Jews doing it them today. And it is happening today.

----------


## Klondyke

> No bonus to the Palestinians, but just because it happened many times in the past does not justify European Jews doing it them today. And it is happening today.


Yes, that's what the old lady Helen Thomas said to them (but how they slated her for that), why the Palestinians should suffer under Yews for what the Germans did to them...

----------


## Maanaam

> Yes, that's what the old lady Helen Thomas said to them (but how they slated her for that), why the Palestinians should suffer under Yews for what the Germans did to them...


And Israeli apologists always miss the irony of how the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians similar to what they claim victimhood for under the Nazis ie systematic extermination, oppression, and dominance at the end of a gun.

----------


## Fluke

> does not justify European Jews doing it them today. .


  They are Israelis , Calling them Europeans is like calling UK/USA Black people Africans .
Calling American Black people Africans  is racist ,as is calling Israelis "Europeans"

----------


## Fluke

> does not justify European Jews doing it them today.


      That is exactly the same as what gets written by racists in stormfront .
They do not refer to British Asians as British , they refer to them as Asian Muslims living in the UK
Israelis are Israelis , they are not European .

----------


## Fluke

> And Israeli apologists always miss the irony of how the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians similar to what they claim victimhood for under the Nazis ie systematic extermination, oppression, and dominance at the end of a gun.


  More like : Europeans chased Jews out from Europe and for Anti semetic Europeans, that wasnt enough , they want Hitlers job complete , so they continue his work, trying to chase the Jews out of Israel

----------


## Maanaam

90% of Israeli Jews are either European born or 2nd generation from European born and the entire state was established by 99% Europeans. To claim they have a greater right than the indigenous natives who have lived there for countless generations is preposterous, and thus I make the distinction.
It's not quite the same as calling 2nd generation Brits "Africans" because those "Africans" are not ousting native Brits.

----------


## Maanaam

> More like : Europeans chased Jews out from Europe and for Anti semetic Europeans, that wasnt enough , they want Hitlers job complete , so they continue his work, trying to chase the Jews out of Israel


David Herzog and his Zionists chose to leave because they had long planned to reclaim their God's Promised Land, from the sea to the river.

----------


## Fluke

> 90% of Israeli Jews are either European born or 2nd generation from European born and the entire state was established by 99% Europeans..


  Abolute Bullshit you fukkin Nazi

Among Jews, 70.3% were born in Israel (_sabras), mostly from the second or third generation of their family in the country, and the rest are Jewish immigrants. Of the Jewish immigrants, 20.5% were from Europe and the Americas, and 9.2% were from Asia, Africa, and Middle Eastern countries.[20] Nearly half of all Israeli Jews are descended from immigrants from the European Jewish diaspora. Approximately the same number are descended from immigrants from Arab countries, Iran, Turkey and Central Asia. Over 200,000 are of Ethiopian and Indian-Jewish descent.[_

----------


## Maanaam

> Abolute Bullshit you fukkin Nazi
> 
> Among Jews, 70.3% were born in Israel (_sabras), mostly from the second or third generation of their family in the country, and the rest are Jewish immigrants. Of the Jewish immigrants, 20.5% were from Europe and the Americas, and 9.2% were from Asia, Africa, and Middle Eastern countries.[20] Nearly half of all Israeli Jews are descended from immigrants from the European Jewish diaspora. Approximately the same number are descended from immigrants from Arab countries, Iran, Turkey and Central Asia. Over 200,000 are of Ethiopian and Indian-Jewish descent.[_


Fukkin Nazi?? Resorting to personal insults now, like Herman.
It's the last resort of people who don't have a leg to stand on.
Don't call BS until you understand English and maths.

(I wonder if the expression "don't have a leg to stand on" will be pedantically refuted by "I have two legs, I walk on them every day, you fukkin bigot against disabled peope"  :rofl: ). It wouldn't surprise me.

----------


## Fluke

The CBS traces the paternal country of origin of Israeli Jews as of 2010 is as followsCountry of origin
Born
abroad
Israeli
born
Total
 %

_Africa_
_315,800_
_572,100_
_887,900_
_15.4%_

Algeria/Tunisia
43,200
91,700
134,900
2.3%

Argentina
35,500
26,100
61,600
1.1%

_Asia_
_201,000_
_494,200_
_695,200_
_12.0%_

Bulgaria/Greece
16,400
32,600
49,000
0.9%

Czech Republic/Slovakia/Hungary
20,000
45,000
64,900
1.1%

Egypt
18,500
39,000
57,500
1.0%

Ethiopia
81,600
38,600
110,100
1.9%

Europe, other
27,000
29,900
56,900
1.0%

_Europe/Americas/Oceania_
_1,094,100_
_829,700_
_1,923,800_
_33.4%_

France
41,100
26,900
68,000
1.2%

Germany/Austria
24,500
50,600
75,200
1.3%

India/Pakistan
17,600
29,000
46,600
0.8%

Iran/Afghanistan
49,300
92,300
141,600
2.5%

Iraq
62,600
173,300
235,800
4.1%

_Israel_
—
_2,246,300_
_2,246,300_
_39.0%_

Latin America, other
26,900
17,000
43,900
0.8%

Libya
15,800
53,500
69,400
1.2%

Morocco
153,600
339,600
493,200
8.6%

North America/Oceania
90,500
63,900
154,400
2.7%

Other
6,700
11,300
18,000
0.3%

Other
13,100
9,700
22,800
0.4%

Poland
51,300
151,000
202,300
3.5%

Romania
88,600
125,900
214,400
3.7%

Soviet Union
651,400
241,000
892,400
15.5%

Syria/Lebanon
10,700
25,000
35,700
0.6%

*Total*
*1,610,900*
*4,124,400*
*5,753,300*
*100.0%*

Turkey
25,700
52,500
78,100
1.4%

United Kingdom
21,000
19,900
40,800
0.7%

Yemen
28,400
111,100
139,500
2.4%

----------


## Fluke

> 90% of Israeli Jews are either European born or 2nd generation from European born and the entire state was established by 99% Europeans. .


   I have show facts that prove that you are wrong .
Please admit  that you are wrong 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis

----------


## jabir

> Maybe that is true, who knows, but the fact is that Israel was created by the U.N.
> No one can say how history would have panned out without the Balfour declaration , Israeli Arabs live by the same laws as Israeli Jews , there is no difference .
>    Israel, like most other Countries has one law for everyone .
> Israel was taking defensive measures against the quarter of a million hostile troops on its borders .
> The hostile troops were there for a war , its was the massing of troops which caused the war , Israel just obliged with their wish for war


Israel exists through the corruption and incompetence of Arab leaders. Nothing has changed in the last 80 years and there can be no change in the next 80 while the Arabs/Palestinians are happy to remain uneducated, impoverished, easily roused, willingly herded and accept it as their lot by the will of Allah to be governed by such leaders. 

Individual leaders have stood out in recent times, no less corrupt than any before but seeded with clear religious objectives, though none of these could be realised unless the people are kept dumb and compliant. Iow, one way or the other there is little hope for the masses.

----------


## jabir

> The message you wrote Jabir doesn't distress me in the least.
> 
> Surely "Bring It On" has been discussed as well (probably behind closed doors).


It wasn't intended to distress, so you're doing extremely well.

----------


## Maanaam

> I have show facts that prove that you are wrong .
> Please admit  that you are wrong 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelis


No, you have resorted to personal insults because you don't understand English or maths.

----------


## Fluke

> No, you have resorted to personal insults because you don't understand English or maths.


  No, you have been caught lying and instead of owning up to it and admitting that you are wrong and lying , you are using some feigned insult, because I swore .
  Pathetic really .
Whether I can or cannot understand maths is besides the point , the fact is you lied

----------


## Fluke

> To claim they have a greater right than the indigenous natives who have lived there for countless generations is preposterous, and thus I make the distinction.
> .


  What are you waffling on about (I do apologise if that is offensive language) , I have said numerous times that the Israeli Palestinian Arabs in Israel get exactly the same rights as the Israeli Jews .

----------


## jabir

> Listen, let me explain .
> A Country, any Country can declare its own Capital city and it doesnt matter whether any other Country recognises that, it makes no difference .
>    West Jerusalem is Israeli land, no disputes about that from anyone, (apart from the Israel has no right to exist Brigade ) and that isnt negotiable
>    East Jerusalem is the disputed land .
> May I ask you a general knowledge question Harry ?
> What is the Capital city  of Israel ?


No question of it, Jerusalem is and always has been the capital of Israel, except for easily triggered liberals, snowflakes, the UN, OPEQ, IOC, and a catalogue of assorted others.

But Jerusalem is a cosmetic distraction from the real issues, which can't be resolved despite real sophisticated western leaders on the case that are unable to twig the absurdity of negotiating a country's right to exist; and that's the easy bit since the other, religion, is strictly verboten as a potential root cause. Biggest joke/fraud of our last three generations.

At while they pretend to pore over this right to exist, if it is ever recognised as part of a comprehensive 'peace plan' pimped as viable and honourable and verifiable and realistic, mho says Israeli leaders know it is actually the country's death warrant they've been negotiating all along.

----------


## jabir

deleted

----------


## jabir

> ...as far as I'm concerned the one state solution (combined Israel/Palestine) looks the only feasible option now.


Could never happen, the Israelis are too smart to fall into that one.

----------


## Klondyke

> I have said numerous times that the Israeli Palestinian Arabs in Israel get exactly the same rights as the Israeli Jews .


*Controversial citizenship law that bans Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel extended by the Knesset*
17 June 2015

Israel's Knesset has extended a law that bans Palestinians married to Israelis from living with their spouses in Israel for another year.

The law was first passed in 2003 and extended in 2008, and forbids Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel, or becoming Israeli citizens.

Many critics say that the law essentially makes marriage between Israelis and Palestinians impossible, as the couple would have to live in different countries that are very difficult to pass between.

The law was first introduced as a temporary security measure that would only last for a year, aimed at preventing potential terrorists coming into Israel through marriage.

---

However, MK Aida Touma-Suleiman, from the Joint List, a political alliance of Arab-dominated parties, criticised the effects of the law.

She said: "My daughter fell in love with a young, white, blonde man from Holland. I don't want to think about what would have happened if she had fallen in love with a Palestinian."

"Their situation would have looked like that of almost 20,000 families, who became involved in a love story with a Palestinian Arab."

Also criticising the law's extension was MK Zehava Galon, the head of left-wing Zionist party Meretz, who said: "What this bill says is that every Arab citizen becomes a potential terrorist."

Controversial citizenship law that bans Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel extended by the Knesset | The Independent

----------


## jabir

> They are Israelis , Calling them Europeans is like calling UK/USA Black people Africans .
> Calling American Black people Africans  is racist ,as is calling Israelis "Europeans"


FIFA calls them European, ever since they reached the WC finals by default. :Wink:

----------


## bsnub

Jeezus this thread devolved into a bozo fest.

----------


## Farangrakthai

> Same goes for your silly "Well Muslims persecute Jews elsewhere, thus Jews are allowed to persecute Muslims in Palestine". Actually, I give you credit here in that you are essentially admitting that the Palestinians are persecuted, *which is a step up from Fluke's refusal to do so*.


is fluke really saying that palestinians aren't persecuted in the west bank where they are forced to live in cantons surrounded by israeli settlements, i.e. they don't have a country?

agree with those that say it's probably time to give up on a 2 state solution (due to israeli settlement activity) and give all jews and muslims equal rights in one state. the right wingers in israel won't like it, but like the saying goes with a one state solution:  israel can either choose to be democratic or jewish, it can't choose both.

----------


## Farangrakthai

> Originally Posted by Maanaam
> 
> 
> 90% of Israeli Jews are either European born or 2nd generation from European born and the entire state was established by 99% Europeans.
> 
> 
> Abolute Bullshit you fukkin Nazi
> 
> Population
> ...


fluke, i think you and manaam are basically saying the same thing, except that mannaam is saying that the zionist settlers were europeans, which is true. 




> The CBS traces the paternal country of origin of Israeli Jews as of 2010 is as follows
> Country of origin


from your link fluke:




> Today, *Jews whose family immigrated from European countries and the Americas,* on their paternal line, constitute the largest single group among Israeli Jews and consist of about *3,000,000 people living in Israel.* 
> 
> About 1,200,000 of them are descended from or are immigrants from the former Soviet Union who returned from the diaspora after the fall of the Former Soviet Union 1991.
> 
> *Most of the other 1,800,000 are descended from the first Zionist settlers in the Land of Israel*, as well as Holocaust survivors and their descendants,


fluke, you're not saying that jews had a significant population before the zionist settlers started populating the place, right? 




> ​https://www.google.com/search?q=chart+jewish+population+in+palestine&oq=c  hart+jewish+population+in+palestine&aqs=chrome..69  i57.10555j0j7&{google:bookmarkBarPinned}sourceid=c  hrome&{google:instantExtendedEnabledParameter}{goo  glemniboxStartMarginParameter}ie=UTF-8
> 
> 
> According to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy, thepopulation of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs. In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

----------


## Fluke

> *Controversial citizenship law that bans Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel extended by the Knesset*
> 17 June 2015
> 
> Israel's Knesset has extended a law that bans Palestinians married to Israelis from living with their spouses in Israel for another year.
> 
> The law was first passed in 2003 and extended in 2008, and forbids Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel, or becoming Israeli citizens.
> 
> Many critics say that the law essentially makes marriage between Israelis and Palestinians impossible, as the couple would have to live in different countries that are very difficult to pass between.
> 
> ...


Those are laws for both Israelis and Palestinians , the same law for Israeli Jews and Muslims alike

----------


## Fluke

> is fluke really saying that palestinians aren't persecuted in the west bank where they are forced to live in cantons surrounded by israeli settlements, i.e. they don't have a country?
> 
> .


   I was talking about Israeli Palestinians, those with Israeli citizenship living within Israel proper .
The 1 million or so Israeli Palestinian Arabs living with in Israel.
West bank Palestinians are NOT Israeli citizens

----------


## sabang

And east bank trespassers and foreign soldiers are NOT Palestinian citizens.

----------


## Fluke

> And east bank trespassers and foreign soldiers are NOT Palestinian citizens.


  I do realise that you are trying to be clever .
Referring to Israelis as foreigners .
Not until you and people like you, accept Israel as being a legitimate Country , will the stalemate ever be broken .
Yourself, like many others are just using the Palestinian cause to rid the World of Israel .
Arabs do not care about the Palestinian cause , as they dont care about the Kurds or Marsh Arab cause .
Their on care is the destruction of Israel , until you guys accept Israels right to exist, there will be no peace

----------


## Maanaam

> Those are laws for both Israelis and Palestinians , the same law for Israeli Jews and Muslims alike


Like many of the laws, they are crafted to discriminate. This one for instance. It is far far more likely to affect an Israeli Arab than an Israeli Jew. So much so that the UN passed a resolution stating that this Israeli law violated an international human rights treaty against racism.

How about government sponsored fertility programs? Non-Jews are not allowed. Discrimination against citizens based on religion.
How about vetting Arabs before they can move into a neighbourhood? Jews aren't vetted, and of course, it's very easy to be declined if you're an Arab.
According to a 2005 study at Hebrew University, three times more money was invested in education of Jewish children as in Arab children.
In March 2010, a report released by several Israeli civil rights groups stated that the current Knesset was "the most racist in Israeli history" with 21 bills proposed in 2008 and 2009 that would discriminate against the country's Arab minority.
And so on, and so on.

Yes, they may be equal under most laws but what is de jure and what is de facto are two different things when the laws are made to discriminate.

----------


## Maanaam

> Not until you and people like you, accept Israel as being a legitimate Country , will the stalemate ever be broken .
> Yourself, like many others are just using the Palestinian cause to rid the World of Israel .


Utter rubbish.
Indeed Israel should never have been formed, but it was and it's there to stay. However, they can not be excused or allowed to keep expanding into Palestinian territory.
The Palestinians are an occupied people under military law, not civil law, so when a settler commits a crime (lets say vandalism) he is treated by civil law, and the Palestinian who did the same thing ten metres away is punished under military law, and a whole lot more harshly.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> I don't usuallu resort to name calling (except for the resident jerk), and I'm sorely tempted to bring myself down to your level here, but I won't.
> 
> Your argument about displaced natives is hollow. What happened 200 or 2000 years ago has nothing to do with events since the UN, the Geneva Convention, and International Law were established.
> Same goes for your silly "Well Muslims persecute Jews elsewhere, thus Jews are allowed to persecute Muslims in Palestine". Actually, I give you credit here in that you are essentially admitting that the Palestinians are persecuted, which is a step up from Fluke's refusal to do so.
> 
> BTW, there are plenty of countries where natives have never in history been displaced. Almost all of the Pacifica countries (a dozen or so ?), and I suspect a few African countries. No bonus to the Palestinians, but just because it happened many times in the past does not justify European Jews doing it them today. And it is happening today.


Listen Maanaam, I apologize for my post. Its not my fault but the fu.. Spaniards. It was their wine I drank last night that made me say the things I did  :Smile: 
I just have one thing to ask you........?
Where are the REAL protests from the "Brothers in Arms" ?
Have you noticed, there is none. O.K. maybe here some at TD.
The Intifada is a fart blown in the wind, and no MUSLIM gives a shit.
Where is Turkey, Indonesia, Iran,  and the rest of the BOZOS ?
I have stated it here at TD so many times. No one gives a shit about the Palis, except democratic western countries....and now listen up Buddy....there are Israelis who care MORE than your backwards STUPID FUCKING MUSLIM BROTHERS.
Sorry Buddy, but that is the TRUTH!

----------


## jabir

Very much the truth, the Palis' own worst enemy and to a great extent most countries in that region are their own leaders.

Easy to scrutinise and find Israel treating Israeli Arabs as lesser than Israelis, and many intl organisations thrive on doing just that, but for a more honest picture try offering an Israeli Arab a bunch of money to go live in an Arab hellhole and see if he doesn't tell you to go fcuk your mother.

----------


## Maanaam

> Very much the truth, the Palis' own worst enemy and to a great extent most countries in that region are their own leaders.
> 
> Easy to scrutinise and find Israel treating Israeli Arabs as lesser than Israelis, and many intl organisations thrive on doing just that, but for a more honest picture try offering an Israeli Arab a bunch of money to go live in an Arab hellhole and see if he doesn't tell you to go fcuk your mother.


And so we all should ignore Israel's crimes against humanity as Herman suggests, because nobody cares about the Palestinians?

----------


## Klondyke

> No one gives a shit about the Palis, except democratic western countries....and now listen up Buddy....there are Israelis who care MORE than your backwards STUPID FUCKING MUSLIM BROTHERS.


Anybody agrees with this statement?

----------


## Maanaam

^ There are certainly Jewish Israelis who are sensitive to the plight of the Palestinians. They recognise their government is a nasty ethnic cleansing arpartheid monster.
Plenty of them. The Zionists call them "self-hating Jews" and despise them.
But then, the Zionist will put a derogatory label on anyone who criticises Israel. Antisemite is the most common and most often innaccurate. Critcising Israel is not antisemitism no matter how much the Zionists will try to make out that it is.

----------


## terry57

Ya gota call it though.

Trump moving the Embassy will in no way affect the Jews-Arab relationship or chances of reconciliation because they never had a relationship and have hated each other for ever and forever will.

So I salute Trump for doing stuff his way and fook the Arabs.  :bananaman:

----------


## Klondyke

> Where is Turkey, Indonesia, Iran, and the rest of the BOZOS ?


Especially in these days, you can see it in many TV news (not VoA). 
Not only the ones from UN (the ones who till now did not dare to anger the Big Brother, even the GCC...)
There are so many on the cities streets enraged what is now happening to Palestinians. Just seeing (at TRT World) from Jakarta...

----------


## Maanaam

> Trump moving the Embassy will in no way affect the Jews-Arab relationship or chances of reconciliation


I think that's wrong. The plans have already been drawn up to demolish the mosque and build a temple on the Mount. Bibi just needs a bit of support and encouragement to go through with it.
It would spark such a wave of death that we might even call it ww3

----------


## terry57

^

Fair enough.

So this might be better than.

The Jews and Arabs hate each other, no matter what happens it will always be the same.

----------


## Fluke

> I think that's wrong. The plans have already been drawn up to demolish the mosque and build a temple on the Mount. Bibi just needs a bit of support and encouragement to go through with it.
> It would spark such a wave of death that we might even call it ww3


  Where did you read that ?
I dont believe that thats true

----------


## Fluke

> . Antisemite is the most common and most often innaccurate. Critcising Israel is not antisemitism no matter how much the Zionists will try to make out that it is.


   Criticising Israel,just because its a Jewish Country is anti semetic , you oppose  Jews for having their own country, solely based on that that are Jews.
   Just own up top it, you dont like Jews , fair enough, you are entitled to that onion

----------


## Klondyke

> Criticising Israel,just because its a Jewish Country is anti semetic


This is always the best "argument", after this no discussion, no facts are needed...

----------


## harrybarracuda

I reckon all these "antisemetic" people must come from "Jordon".

----------


## Fluke

> Hey listen you silly Schmuck ! Show me one country, I repeat, just one country in this world where so called natives have not been displaced ? Hungary, Canada, China, Germany, France, Myanmar, Russia maybe you want to try Mars....Jupiter ?
> Now why should the Palis get a bonus for being displaced?
> We all know dam well if it was the other way around Jews and Christians would not  get a break (from your muzzie brothers) what so ever.
> If so......please name a Muslim country where so. 
> Jews and Christians are being oppressed in every muslim country in this world....and that is a FACT ! Schmuck!


   It should also be stated that many of the current Palestinians ancestors also came from other Countries.
Before Israel became a state , many Arabs from other Countries moved to the land because of the prosperity that the Jews bought

----------


## Maanaam

> Criticising Israel,just because its a Jewish Country is anti semetic , you oppose  Jews for having their own country, solely based on that that are Jews.
>    Just own up top it, you dont like Jews , fair enough, you are entitled to that onion


Perfect response to my point, thank you. You've made my point nicely. Anyone who criticises Israel MUST be antisemitc and hate Jews.
Wrong.
I oppose a state (regardless of their ethnic or religious background) that steal the land of native people and force, at the point of a gun, them to be 2nd class citizens. I oppose a people who ignore international law and breach it daily.
West Papua is another of my bugbears....and NB I'm going against a Muslim state here.
Thank you for emphasising my point about the Zionists.

----------


## Fluke

> Perfect response to my point, thank you. You've made my point nicely. Anyone who criticises Israel MUST be antisemitc and hate Jews.
> Wrong.
> I oppose a state (regardless of their ethnic or religious background) that steal the land of native people and force, at the point of a gun, them to be 2nd class citizens. I oppose a people who ignore international law and breach it daily.
> West Papua is another of my bugbears....and NB I'm going against a Muslim state here.
> Thank you for emphasising my point about the Zionists.


  How about the USA , they stole red Indians land and nearly  wiped them out and how about Australia and its Aborigines ? What about Chinese taken over Singapore ?
   What about the Rohinga in Myanmar ?
They have been murdered and thrown off their land , half a million of them .
What about Brits in Northern Ireland ?
What about the 1 million stateless people in Thailand ?
The Palestinians get treated equally in Israel and they have a higher standard of living than many Palestinians living in other Countries , every wondered why theres no sign of discontent from the 1 Million Palestinians living in Israel?
  Why do you feel the need to complain on their behalf ?

----------


## Norton

> The Jews and Arabs hate each other, no matter what happens it will always be the same


All started when that David kid wacked Goliath the Palestine (or sumpin like that) on the noggin with a big rock. They really need to get over it.  :Wink:

----------


## Maanaam

> How about the USA , they stole red Indians land and nearly  wiped them out and how about Australia and its Aborigines ? What about Chinese taken over Singapore ?
>    What about the Rohinga in Myanmar ?
> They have been murdered and thrown off their land , half a million of them .
> What about Brits in Northern Ireland ?
> What about the 1 million stateless people in Thailand ?
> The Palestinians get treated equally in Israel and they have a higher standard of living than many Palestinians living in other Countries , every wondered why theres no sign of discontent from the 1 Million Palestinians living in Israel?
>   Why do you feel the need to complain on their behalf ?


See...right there, as per usual the Israel apologists respond with non sequitur replies.
I made a comment about Zionists blaming antisemitism on everything critical of Israel, you responded by accusing me of hating Jews, I thanked you for making my point, and you respond with "what about..."
 :smiley laughing: 

OK, so you've got no response to me thanking you for giving us a good example of my point. Done. Thank you again.
Now let me respond to your non sequitur: So what? Does whatever Australia has done to Aborigenes mean that Israel is innocent? Answer, no.
We have been over it a few times, stop being densely stubborn; Arab Israeli citizens are not treated equaly and occupied Palestinians are severely oppressed.
It's common knowledge and no matter how many news articles and how many facts you are presented with, you just keep on harping fallacy.

----------


## stroller

> Before Israel became a state , many Arabs from other Countries moved to the land because of the prosperity that the Jews bought


Hmm..., and where did all the Jews in Israel come from? 

Also, do you know how many Israeli citizens have never lived in Israel?

----------


## Fluke

> See...right there, as per usual the Israel apologists respond with non sequitur replies.
> I made a comment about Zionists blaming antisemitism on everything critical of Israel, you responded by accusing me of hating Jews, I thanked you for making my point, and you respond with "what about..."
> 
> 
> OK, so you've got no response to me thanking you for giving us a good example of my point. Done. Thank you again.
> Now let me respond to your non sequitur: So what? Does whatever Australia has done to Aborigenes mean that Israel is innocent? Answer, no.
> We have been over it a few times, stop being densely stubborn; Arab Israeli citizens are not treated equaly and occupied Palestinians are severely oppressed.
> It's common knowledge and no matter how many news articles and how many facts you are presented with, you just keep on harping fallacy.


   My point was that various things happened and are currently happened in various Countries around the World , similar to what has happened in Israel , but you dont seem to care about them  (of course you will claim that you do) , but you just focus on Israel .
   You oppose Zionism, solely because its Jews , you support the Palestinians , solely because they oppose Jews and you , as many others, would like a Palestinian state created with the sole intention of them getting rid of Israel

----------


## Fluke

> Also, do you know how many Israeli citizens have never lived in Israel?


   I dont know, no, do tell me

----------


## HermantheGerman

> See...right there, as per usual the Israel apologists respond with non sequitur replies.


It just sounds wrong when Muslism use words like freedom, equal rights etc.
Its a bit like Stroller telling us "Don't do Drugs!"

----------


## stroller

> but you just focus on Israel


Have you noticed the thread title?

----------


## Fluke

> Have you noticed the thread title?


  I havent actually, no, whats this thread about ?

----------


## stroller

Hint:
It's not about Singapore, Brits in Nothern Ireland or Red Indian land.

----------


## Klondyke

> The Jews and Arabs hate each other, no matter what happens it will always be the same.


How comforting that the white people of Europe - and of some other countries over the ocean - do love each other and do not kill each other...

----------


## Maanaam

> My point was that various things happened and are currently happened in various Countries around the World , similar to what has happened in Israel , but you dont seem to care about them  (of course you will claim that you do) , but you just focus on Israel .
>    You oppose Zionism, solely because its Jews , you support the Palestinians , solely because they oppose Jews and you , as many others, would like a Palestinian state created with the sole intention of them getting rid of Israel


Your point was diversionary and not a response to my comment. And here you go again insinuating I'm antisemitic, again as a diversionary response and again proving my point that when an Israel apologist has no logical or valid response, his response to criticism of Israel is to cry "ANTISEMITE!!!".
I have told you the West Papua issue (where I rail against the Muslim state...so I must be an Islamophobe, right?) is a bugbear of mine. I'm also pro-Tibet (so I must be racist against Chines, right?). You have no idea about my politics in Australia or NZ. Actually, you probably have no idea of my race though I've mentioned it several times on these boards.
You have made a few baseless assumptions about me here, and all because you can't respond to valid criticisms of Israel.

----------


## Wilsonandson

Video time! Question, is Trump Jewish?

----------


## cyrille

> The Jews and Arabs hate each other, no matter what happens it will always be the same.





> How comforting that the white people of Europe - and of some other countries over the ocean - do love each other and do not kill each other...


Are you seriously trying to suggest there is any parallel in Europe or the Americas for the enmity between Arabs and Jews?

----------


## Klondyke

> Are you seriously trying to suggest there is any parallel in Europe or the Americas for the enmity between Arabs and Jews?


It's been not so long when such enmities happened in Europe. And in Americas among the same nations - if it can be called so...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Are you seriously trying to suggest there is any parallel in Europe or the Americas for the enmity between Arabs and Jews?


You've never been to an Old Firm match, have you?

 :Smile:

----------


## sabang

> Are you seriously trying to suggest there is any parallel in Europe or the Americas for the enmity between Arabs and Jews?


That is merely a function of events and politics- specifically the Zionist project/ sponsored mass migration of Jews to Palestine commencing in the late 1800's, the formation of Israel as a state in 1948 (accompanied by a promise for a Palestinian state, which finally took place quite recently), and of course Israeli actions since then- persecution and systematic dispossession of the Palestinians and their land, and pretty much constant war with it's neighbours. Accompanied, on the other side by attempted invasion, Palestinian resistance including terrorism, and increased extremist religious bullshit on both sides.

There is actually no particular historical enmity between Jews and Arabs, in fact the Jews living in Moslem countries were on average safer and less persecuted than those living in Europe. That basically changed in 1948.


I suppose it's all a bit old and hackneyed now, but worth repeating- their have been far, far more people killed in religious conflicts (catholic/ protestant) between Europeans then have ever been killed in jew/arab wars, and if we add to that WW1 & WW2, not even on the same page.

----------


## Klondyke

Documentary of Deutsche Welle (in English):*

The other Jerusalem
*
Jerusalem may seem peaceful from a distance, but on the ground tensions are high. The city is the nexus of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Numerous Palestinians' houses have been demolished by Israeli forces in occupied East Jerusalem.

The other Jerusalem | All media content | DW | 12.12.2017

----------


## Klondyke

It seems that Trump did make a good deed for Palestine (after all):

*Muslim leaders call for recognition of East Jerusalem as Palestinian capital*
13 Dec, 2017

Leaders of Islamic countries have called for East Jerusalem to be recognized as the capital of Palestine, stating that Donald Trumps move last week had voided the status of the US as a mediator in the Palestinian-Israeli peace process.

The Muslim leaders had gathered in Istanbul, Turkey on Wednesday for an emergency summit of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC). They condemned the US decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The controversial move was branded an attack on the rights of Palestinian people in the final declaration by the summit.

The declaration states that the US decision on Jerusalem is equivalent to its withdrawal from the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, NTV broadcaster reported. In its final declaration, the OIC formally recognized East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine, according to the broadcaster.

The US administration should give up its role in the peace process, and if the US does not step back, it will be responsible for all the consequences, the declaration states, as quoted by NTV.

While speaking to the press after the summit, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas vowed to go to the UN Security Council to seek full UN membership for the country. Turkeys president Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in his turn, stated that the Jerusalem issue will be our red line for eternity, adding that Trumps illegitimate and immoral decision would only bring the region into a circle of fire. Erdogan also condemned the violence conducted by Israel, showing photos of Palestinian children at the hands of Israeli soldiers as proof.

https://www.rt.com/news/412942-erdog...alem-decision/

----------


## stroller

> It seems that Trump did make a good deed for Palestine


Not really, he's escalating the tensions.

----------


## Maanaam

^ He is escalating tensions, but aside from the violence that may ensue, it may be a good thing.
For one, Jared and the US are no longer a suitable or acceptable mediator. With that as an irrefutable fact now (whereas it was a fact before, now it is proven), things may actually move forward.
Secondly, there is now a compelling case for E. Jerusalem to be recognised as Palestine's capital. Keep the Jordanian guardianship over the holy sites and make the rest of the city part of Palestine.

----------


## jabir

Haven't been following the past few days, but as the UN is responsible for this aspect of international law isn't it also the only organ that can officially and legally recognise Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital, or 'future' capital? 

Against this would be facts that they have no internationally recognised state as such, and the certainty of a US veto.

----------


## Maanaam

> Haven't been following the past few days, but as the UN is responsible for this aspect of international law isn't it also the only organ that can officially and legally recognise Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital, or 'future' capital? 
> 
> Against this would be facts that they have no internationally recognised state as such, and the certainty of a US veto.


No, the UN is not the organ. A country declares it's own capital and that's that. Decalring a country a country is the UN's legal right though.
You're missing the important bits: East Jerusalem was never part of the declared Israeli state. Israel has always had ambitions to "have" it, and occupied  E. Jerusalem, but since it's such a contentious issue, has not thus far dared to declare it as a capital, only aspirations of it.
International law and the Geneva Convention forbid occupying forces to settle in occupied land, so E. Jerusalem can never be Israel (despite Israel thumbing it's nose to those laws and conventions for the past 50 years and building settlements).

----------


## Klondyke

^



> You're missing the important bits: East Jerusalem was never part of the declared Israeli state. Israel has always had ambitions to "have" it, and occupied E. Jerusalem, but since it's such a contentious issue, has not thus far dared to declare it as a capital, only aspirations of it.
> International law and the Geneva Convention forbid occupying forces to settle in occupied land, so E. Jerusalem can never be Israel (despite Israel thumbing it's nose to those laws and conventions for the past 50 years and building settlements).


The reality of this situation is pretty well shown in DW documentary as I advised above, worth to see it:
The other Jerusalem | All media content | DW | 12.12.2017

(even if the Germans are very careful to criticize the Israel)

----------


## Fluke

> Keep the Jordanian guardianship over the holy sites and make the rest of the city part of Palestine.


   The Jordanians left the area 50 years ago

----------


## sabang

> Against this would be facts that they have no internationally recognised state as such,


Yes, they do.

_As of 14 September 2015, 136 (7001705000000000000♠70.5%) of the 193 member states of the United Nations and two non-member states have recognized the State of Palestine. Many of the countries that do not recognize the State of Palestine nevertheless recognize the PLO as the "representative of the Palestinian people". On 29 November 2012, the UN General Assembly passed a motion changing Palestine's "entity" status to "non-member observer state" by a vote of 138 to 9, with 41 abstentions.
_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...e_of_Palestine

A "non-member observer state" status with the UN is exactly the same as the status of Taiwan & The Vatican.

The British Parliament also voted by an overwhelming majority to recognize Palestine- yet strangely enough, it still hasn't happened. Is this Democracy at work?




> the certainty of a US veto.


That goes without saying, and frankly grows more irrelevant with every passing year. As does the US.

----------


## jabir

> No, the UN is not the organ. A country declares it's own capital and that's that. Decalring a country a country is the UN's legal right though.
> You're missing the important bits: East Jerusalem was never part of the declared Israeli state. Israel has always had ambitions to "have" it, and occupied  E. Jerusalem, but since it's such a contentious issue, has not thus far dared to declare it as a capital, only aspirations of it.
> International law and the Geneva Convention forbid occupying forces to settle in occupied land, so E. Jerusalem can never be Israel (despite Israel thumbing it's nose to those laws and conventions for the past 50 years and building settlements).


Sure a country chooses it's own capital, but Palestine is not a country and the PA capital is Ramallah. 

Israel has made it clear several times that right of return, 67 borders and a divided Jerusalem are non-negotiable, even in talks without preconditions.

----------


## jabir

> I think that's wrong. The plans have already been drawn up to demolish the mosque and build a temple on the Mount. Bibi just needs a bit of support and encouragement to go through with it.
> It would spark such a wave of death that we might even call it ww3


Not sure where you got that and don't want to know. Of course some people would like it to happen, but I would rather wager on bitcoins hitting a million by this time next week.

----------


## jabir

> The Jordanians left the area 50 years ago


The waqf has a ton of influence in the old city, but imho have not used it wisely. Nothing new there, a peasant with credentials is still a peasant.

----------


## jabir

> Yes, they do.
> 
> _As of 14 September 2015, 136 (7001705000000000000♠70.5%) of the 193 member states of the United Nations and two non-member states have recognized the State of Palestine. Many of the countries that do not recognize the State of Palestine nevertheless recognize the PLO as the "representative of the Palestinian people". On 29 November 2012, the UN General Assembly passed a motion changing Palestine's "entity" status to "non-member observer state" by a vote of 138 to 9, with 41 abstentions.
> _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...e_of_Palestine
> 
> A "non-member observer state" status with the UN is exactly the same as the status of Taiwan & The Vatican.
> 
> The British Parliament also voted by an overwhelming majority to recognize Palestine- yet strangely enough, it still hasn't happened. Is this Democracy at work?
> 
> ...


An impressive testimony to the democratic process. I haven't seen the list so I don't know who voted how, but my guess is that the OIC block voted, so we start with 56 of those 138 votes right there, with the balance coming from rogue and Mickey Mouse states that were bought off cheap. Could argue a vote is a vote even if was bought or rented. But pointless, because I would also guess the A-team abstained. And if they didn't get full recognition under Obama it's a bit ambitious to make noises under Trump.

While the Palestinians have the beginnings of a viable nation with a population united by common descent, history, culture and language, that's not enough. Also needed is UN membership under one government, which includes a constitution by any name, an anthem, flag, currency, DC, defence force and other trimmings of statehood; some are in place and others are details to work on, but if those aspiring to statehood wish to be taken seriously by anyone outside the Muslim world they also need to wean off the welfare tit and start earning. And don't herd me down the refugee route. 

You can't have sovereignty just because you want it.

----------


## Maanaam

> The Jordanians left the area 50 years ago


Al Aqsa Mosque is under Hashemite guardianship.






> Israel has made it clear several times that right of return, 67 borders and a divided Jerusalem are non-negotiable, even in talks without preconditions.


?? Eh? That sounds like some very strong preconditions. What are you on about?
And why are Israeli preconditions above Palestinian ones, especially when Israeli preconditions involve breaching international law and the Geneva Convention?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> An impressive testimony to the democratic process. I haven't seen the list so I don't know who voted how, but my guess is that the OIC block voted, so we start with 56 of those 138 votes right there, with the balance coming from rogue and Mickey Mouse states that were bought off cheap. Could argue a vote is a vote even if was bought or rented. But pointless, because I would also guess the A-team abstained. And if they didn't get full recognition under Obama it's a bit ambitious to make noises under Trump.
> 
> While the Palestinians have the beginnings of a viable nation with a population united by common descent, history, culture and language, that's not enough. Also needed is UN membership under one government, which includes a constitution by any name, an anthem, flag, currency, DC, defence force and other trimmings of statehood; some are in place and others are details to work on, but if those aspiring to statehood wish to be taken seriously by anyone outside the Muslim world they also need to wean off the welfare tit and start earning. And don't herd me down the refugee route. 
> 
> You can't have sovereignty just because you want it.


I think you mean "You can't have anything because the four by twos want it".

----------


## Klondyke

> While the Palestinians have the beginnings of a viable nation with a population united by common descent, history, culture and language, that's not enough.


Any hint to specs what is "enough"? Enough what the 193 member states do possess?

----------


## sabang

> I haven't seen the list so I don't know who voted how, but my guess is that the OIC block voted, so we start with 56 of those 138 votes right there, with the balance coming from rogue and Mickey Mouse states that were bought off cheap. Could argue a vote is a vote even if was bought or rented. But pointless, because I would also guess the A-team abstained.


Really? The 'list', that you so asininely say was either bought off or is a rogue nation, includes the worlds three most populous nations- China, India & Indonesia. It includes the BRIC's. It includes Thailand. Obviously, it includes the UN too. It includes most of the world actually.

Just who was bought off? It certainly wasn't those countries in yellow- here, look for yourself.

----------


## buriramboy

Harry is a funny one rails against Russia vetoing all UN resolutions on Syria but quite content with the US vetoing all UN resolutions on Israel for as long as time exists.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Harry is a funny one rails against Russia vetoing all UN resolutions on Syria but quite content with the US vetoing all UN resolutions on Israel for as long as time exists.


How on earth do you draw that conclusion?

FFS what an idiot.

 :rofl:

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Jeezus this thread devolved into a bozo fest.


Maybe it needs your intellectually calming influence Snubs. 
No one would accuse me of muzzie love. In fact some would say if a muzzie was on fire I'd probably pull up a chair open a tinnie and roast a couple of snags. The truth in this one though is the red sea pedestrians have right royally shafted the Palestinians. I reckon blind Freddy ought to be able to see that. Being an expert on world affairs, my suggestion would be since our Deutcher friends caused all this hullabaloo by trying to get rid of the yids, they should just cut off a chunk of the old Deutchland, say maybe Rhineland seeing as they haven't had it back all that long anyway, so probably wouldn't miss it. Put a big fence around it so no one can get in or out chuck the Jews in and Bobs your uncle.. As an added bonus circumcise Trollers cheesy dick (probably need a microsurgeon) give him a prayer shawl and a skull cap and throw him over the fence so he cant get out. Two problems solved. No need to thank me.

----------


## jabir

> Al Aqsa Mosque is under Hashemite guardianship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?? Eh? That sounds like some very strong preconditions. What are you on about?
> And why are Israeli preconditions above Palestinian ones, especially when Israeli preconditions involve breaching international law and the Geneva Convention?


I didn't make the rules, that's the way it works. Both sides have preconditions in talks without preconditions. Part of the madness in our modern world.

----------


## jabir

> I think you mean "You can't have anything because the four by twos want it".


If the Pals aspire to genuine peace and prosperity, side by side with Israel, it can only be achieved through sovereignty. Hands up all those who believe they do, won't be many.

If the Pals aspire to destroying Israel, it can still only be done as a sovereign neighbour, not by a few attacks here and there while the whole world can see its people are wilfully deprived of education and most other basics for a viable society.

Either way they need to get their act together, shake off the image of a thoroughly corrupt society governed by two thoroughly corrupt sets of leaders, and demonstrate that they are capable of running a state. 


AQ faded to the IS because their plan was plain and simple jihad; they had no plan beyond jihad for the sake of jihad, whereas IS did their dd with infrastructure and trimmings. This is why desperate western leaders celebrate their great victory over the IS in a tiny region, whilst ignoring the fact that it remains a greater global threat than it was before said 'destruction', and that the 'kill zone' will never again be under the control of forces sympathetic to the west.

You are being lied to, and lap it up!

----------


## jabir

> Any hint to specs what is "enough"? Enough what the 193 member states do possess?


"Enough" is five of 193 votes.

----------


## Klondyke

^



> Originally Posted by jabir 
> While the Palestinians have the beginnings of a viable nation with a population united by common descent, history, culture and language, that's not enough.





> Any hint to specs what is "enough"? Enough what the 193 member states do possess?


My question was to your statement that the Palestine does not have enough to become a UN member state. 
So, what each of the 193 UN member states does possess what the Palestine does not?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> If the Pals aspire to genuine peace and prosperity, side by side with Israel, it can only be achieved through sovereignty. Hands up all those who believe they do, won't be many.
> 
> If the Pals aspire to destroying Israel, it can still only be done as a sovereign neighbour, not by a few attacks here and there while the whole world can see its people are wilfully deprived of education and most other basics for a viable society.
> 
> Either way they need to get their act together, shake off the image of a thoroughly corrupt society governed by two thoroughly corrupt sets of leaders, and demonstrate that they are capable of running a state. 
> 
> 
> AQ faded to the IS because their plan was plain and simple jihad; they had no plan beyond jihad for the sake of jihad, whereas IS did their dd with infrastructure and trimmings. This is why desperate western leaders celebrate their great victory over the IS in a tiny region, whilst ignoring the fact that it remains a greater global threat than it was before said 'destruction', and that the 'kill zone' will never again be under the control of forces sympathetic to the west.
> 
> You are being lied to, and lap it up!


But you are ignoring the fact that *any* time the peace progress has made tangible progress, the blue suede shoes have gone out of their way to be antagonistic and fuck it up.

They want all that Mediterranean oil and gas for themselves.

----------


## jabir

Not ignoring that at all. But they get away with it because through the bluster those that matter can see the Pals are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit. 

They have a chance to achieve sovereignty, which is worthless if it keeps the people as they are right under the thumb of corrupt despots, so imho it would be a leap forward if they were willing to sacrifice those pathetic leaders to reach that goal. 

The other side survived 70 years not by being stupid, but by manipulating and exploiting facts on the ground.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Not ignoring that at all. But they get away with it because through the bluster those that matter can see the Pals are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit.


They get away with it because the US protects Israel.

----------


## sabang

> The other side survived 70 years not by being stupid


Seventy years pales into insignificance when you are Palestinian, who have continuously occupied their land throughout the millennia. I daresay they have encountered several Nakba in that considerable time. It is one of the longest continuous habitations in human history, if not the longest- for example, Jaffa is considered to be the longest continuously occupied urban environment in human history- only Aleppo in Syria has a competing claim.

Both places are considerably older than Jerusalem, which was already a thriving city by the standards of the time, long before the first Hebrew set eyes upon the place- it was founded by the Canaanites. It was also the capitol of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (larger than neo-Israel/ Palestine) for two centuries. Now, the Old City is divided into Armenian, Christian & Jewish quarters- and has been for a long time.

Only ever the capital of Israel?? Indivisible?? What a contemptible liar Bibi is, representative of the sort of people he represents. Incidentally, Samaria (land of the Samaritans) was not a part of ancient Israel either, which was in fact divided into two kingdoms of Judea & Israel. Jews can never agree upon themselves either.

----------


## Fluke

> Seventy years pales into insignificance when you are Palestinian, who have continuously occupied their land throughout the millennia. I daresay they have encountered several Nakba in that considerable time. It is one of the longest continuous habitations in human history, if not the longest- for example, Jaffa is considered to be the longest continuously occupied urban environment in human history- only Aleppo in Syria has a competing claim.
> 
> Both places are considerably older than Jerusalem, which was already a thriving city by the standards of the time, long before the first Hebrew set eyes upon the place- it was founded by the Canaanites. It was also the capitol of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (larger than neo-Israel/ Palestine) for two centuries. Now, the Old City is divided into Armenian, Christian & Jewish quarters- and has been for a long time.
> 
> Only ever the capital of Israel?? Indivisible?? What a contemptible liar Bibi is, representative of the sort of people he represents. Incidentally, Samaria (land of the Samaritans) was not a part of ancient Israel either, which was in fact divided into two kingdoms of Judea & Israel. Jews can never agree upon themselves either.


   What are you saying ?
All Muslims , Jews and Christians should give the land to the original inhabitants ?

----------


## stroller

He's exposed some myths propagated by Bibi & friends.

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## harrybarracuda

> He's exposed some myths propagated by Bibi & friends.


And used some big words, which is why Fluke didn't understand him.

----------


## jabir

> They get away with it because the US protects Israel.


Ah, right, not because the non-Muslim world can see through the bluster that the Pals through their leaders are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit. 

Needs a major shake up that starts at the top, and from past form I doubt it would be bloodless.

----------


## jabir

> Seventy years pales into insignificance when you are Palestinian, who have continuously occupied their land throughout the millennia. I daresay they have encountered several Nakba in that considerable time. It is one of the longest continuous habitations in human history, if not the longest- for example, Jaffa is considered to be the longest continuously occupied urban environment in human history- only Aleppo in Syria has a competing claim.
> 
> Both places are considerably older than Jerusalem, which was already a thriving city by the standards of the time, long before the first Hebrew set eyes upon the place- it was founded by the Canaanites. It was also the capitol of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (larger than neo-Israel/ Palestine) for two centuries. Now, the Old City is divided into Armenian, Christian & Jewish quarters- and has been for a long time.
> 
> Only ever the capital of Israel?? Indivisible?? What a contemptible liar Bibi is, representative of the sort of people he represents. Incidentally, Samaria (land of the Samaritans) was not a part of ancient Israel either, which was in fact divided into two kingdoms of Judea & Israel. Jews can never agree upon themselves either.


Leave it out, so have the Jews a thousands-year history in the region. As the UN plays this never ending OIC game of lying to itself, non-Muslim world leaders pay lip service for political reasons but know the reality is quite different. I think the Pal cause would gain through more realistic and less fanatical/overt contempt for the Jews (yes that does read Jews, not Israel).

Allow reality to seep into narratives and only good things can happen. Or, continue with the idiot flow and blame and malign Israel for everything. Let's see who is offended: Israel was not responsible for the Haiti earthquake, organ harvesting of survivors, the Jap tsunami, spy squirrels and eagles, trained sharks that attack only Muslims, rats that infest only Muslims, stealing Muslim rain and the dozens of other misdeeds forcefed to and believe by the most ignorant people on the planet.

For example, and not faulting since you didn't claim otherwise, 


> Incidentally, Samaria (land of the Samaritans) was not a part of ancient Israel either, which was in fact divided into two kingdoms of Judea & Israel. Jews can never agree upon themselves either.


 ...while you quite rightly point out the origin of Samaria, what is the origin of Judea and what does it represent?

Never mind, because all of that becomes irrelevant when people dare to fess up that the ongoing contention in that region has nothing to do with land and everything to do with religion. Unfortunately, those that do fess up are disbelieved by those that are too scared to consider it may really be a religious imperative.

----------


## Fluke

> And used some big words, which is why Fluke didn't understand him.


   It was his poor choice of words that was confusing .
He used the word "occupied" and he should have used the word *inhabited* 
In a thread about occupied territory , its better not to used the word occupied when meaning that someone has been living there
The correct word would be *inhabited*

----------


## Maanaam

> Leave it out, so have the Jews a thousands-year history in the region.


So what, that doesn't give European Jews the right to take over land where indigenous people live, and have lived for thousands of years.

Every time people bring up this "argument" of Jewish settlement for thousands of years they forget that it's not the Jews that have lived there for ages and their families and descendents that are the problem...if it was only them, it would not be a problem because they'd be around 5% of the population of the area.
Somehow, people with the same religion are making a claim.
Lets say my gt gt gt grandfather converted to Zoroastriansim. Does that give me and my kids a right to a section of Iran, even though we have never been there, and neither has my dad, his dad before him nor any of our ancestors that we can reliably trace. No, it's a preposterous idea and I'm sure the Iranians would scoff at it.
So what gives Europen Jews the right to occupy Palestine based on their religion and intangible claims to ancestry?

----------


## Klondyke

> the Pals through their leaders are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit.


How desirable to live for generations under occupation, however, lucky to receive a walfare... 
BTW, don't the Israeli receive a pretty welfare either?

----------


## Norton

> So what gives Europen Jews the right to occupy Palestine based on their religion and intangible claims to ancestry?


Ancient history is irrelevant. The UN partition making Palestine into a zone for the Arabs and a zone for the Jews (Israel) is the one in place today. The Jews accepted the agreement the Arabs did not and shortly after attacked Israel and took a wuppin.

Really a dumb move on the Arabs part. Motivated no doubt by religious differences. Had they accepted UN resolution 181 back in 1947 by now Palestine would be a nation rather than what it is now. A place of constant strife with incompetent leaders who still refuse to acknowlege Israel as a legitimate state and in turn Israeli bogus territorial expansion in the name of "security".

Far from a Trump fan and well know his declaration of Jerusalem as the capital was done for domestic political reasons, the impact on Israel/Palestine peace has little impact.

Peace will come only when Arabs accept Israel and the UN comes down hard on illegal Israeli expansion and occupation of Palestinian territory.

Fat chance as long as US has veto power.  :Sad:

----------


## Maanaam

> Ancient history is irrelevant.


True, except in the context of continual occupation (in a habitation sense, for Fluke). The European Jews and the Morrocan Jews et al have not got that, but many Palestinians do, yet they are still ousted. Not fair, not right.








> The UN partition making Palestine into a zone for the Arabs and a zone for the Jews (Israel) is the one in place today.


Not really. Israel broke out from that and occupied AND settled beyond that partition.






> the Arabs did not and shortly after attacked Israel


No, Israel attacked. Israel fired the first shots. Couch it as "pre-emptive" if you want, but the fact remains that Israel attacked. It fit with their agenda.






> Really a dumb move on the Arabs part.


In hindsight, they may agree. Dumb moves don't justify Israel's expansion nor the US's support for it.






> A place of constant strife with incompetent leaders who still refuse to acknowlege Israel as a legitimate state


Not correct. From  an Israeli Jewish source (for one...there are many links negating your assertion.)
"Netanyahu’s new 'Jewish state' mantra negates the fact that Palestinians recognized Israel more than twenty years ago. They’re still waiting for Israel to recognize Palestine
read more: https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.579701".






> and in turn Israeli bogus territorial expansion in the name of "security".


Totally bogus. That Golan, eh...gas reserves and arable land. Westbank aquifers. And so on.






> Fat chance as long as US has veto power.


Correct. And it's high time all 5 powers of veto have their horns lopped. The powers of veto are being abused, blatantly.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Ah, right, not because the non-Muslim world can see through the bluster that the Pals through their leaders are a bunch of unproductive, disorganised, disunited peasants living through generations off the welfare tit.


Straight out of the four by two playbook.

They build schools and hospitals, they build agriculture and factories. Then the four by twos say they are terrorist hideouts and blow them up.

It's a great vicious circle. Terrorise them into retaliating then go "OOH OOH LOOK THEY'RE TERRORISTS!".

 :Smile:

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## Klondyke

Not to forget the few ships coming under the guise of international humanitarian help (for Gaza people) but recognized as supplying WMD (such as hammers, nails, etc), so had to be trapped, some of the crew shot...

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## cyrille

> Ancient history is irrelevant.


Ancient history colours every single aspect of this conflict and will never, ever be irrelevant.

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## Maanaam

> Not to forget the few ships coming under the guise of international humanitarian help (for Gaza people) but recognized as supplying WMD (such as hammers, nails, etc), so had to be trapped, some of the crew shot...


Crayons, nutmeg, cinnamon, cardamom, ginger, chocolate, children's books....and the list goes on of things Israel prohibits getting into Gaza "for security reasons".
As you can see (if you google it) , the list is mainly about oppression and disheartening the Palestinians. Yeah, for security reasons we prohibit chocolate because don't forget the great chocolate bomb of '78! You can make rockets with ginger, and corriander can be used to support tunnels.
Lets bomb the city and demolish hundreds of houses, then prohibit cement and wood for rebuilding.

Fluke...what do you have to say about this aspect of Israeli persecution of Palestinians?

----------


## Fluke

> Crayons, nutmeg, cinnamon, cardamom, ginger, chocolate, children's books....and the list goes on of things Israel prohibits getting into Gaza "for security reasons".
> As you can see (if you google it) , the list is mainly about oppression and disheartening the Palestinians. Yeah, for security reasons we prohibit chocolate because don't forget the great chocolate bomb of '78! You can make rockets with ginger, and corriander can be used to support tunnels.
> Lets bomb the city and demolish hundreds of houses, then prohibit cement and wood for rebuilding.
> 
> Fluke...what do you have to say about this aspect of Israeli persecution of Palestinians?


  I wasnt going to comment at all , its quite funny to see you and Harry and a few others getting more and more extreme with your false allegations , but, as you did ask .
   The import restrictions are also enforced by Egypt as well , along the Gaza/Egypt border and the list of things that you stated that are banned is incorrect .
   Import restrictions were lifted in 2010 by Israel and here is a list of the things that are now restricted

On June 17, 2010, the Israel cabinet agreed to ease the restrictions on items permitted into the Gaza strip.
 Items Subject to Specific Permission
1. Arms and Munitions: forbidden transfer under all circumstances across Israel's frontiers without specific permits - as defined in the Control of Exports Security Order (Arms and Munitions) 5768-2008, and in the Control of Exports Security Order (Missile Equipment) 5768-2008.
2. Dual Use goods and items: liable to be used, side by side with their civilian purposes, for the development, production, installation or enhancement of military capabilities and terrorist capacities. This list comprises:
Items listed under the Wassenaar Arrangement: As specified in the updated (2008) "Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls for Arms and Dual Use Goods and Technologies - List of Dual Use Goods and Technologies and Munitions List."
Items whose entry into the PA Areas is controlled based on Israeli legislation: i.e. materials and equipment liable to be used for terror attacks and technology that could be used by terrorists - as defined in the Control of Exports Security Order (Controlled Dual Use Equipment Transferred to the PA Areas) 5768-2008 and in Orders of the OC Central Command.
These lists include, in detail, a range of chemicals used in the production of explosives (including certain fertilizers); specific types of metal profiles; ball bearings; lathes and their parts; composite materials; hunting knives and machetes; optical equipment, such as lasers and night vision goggles; certain navigation aides; diving equipment; parachutes, gliders and other nonmotorized airborne vehicles; flares and fireworks; avionics and flight control equipment; missile related computer technologies; rock drills and equipment drawing water from excavated sites. Items not necessarily included in the lists above but whose entry into Gaza is controlled, as detailed below:
i. Items and chemicals which could be used in the production of high trajectory weapons (rockets and mortars) by Hamas and other terror groups in Gaza - Fertilizers or other mixtures - specifically containing KCl at more than 5%; Epoxy and Vinyl Ester resins; Hardeners for Epoxy Resins containing Amides or Amines; Accelerators for Vinyl Esters; HTPB; Water purification solutions at concentrations higher than 11%.
ii. Items used as raw materials for improving protection for terror activists - Fibers or woven fabrics containing Carbon or Glass variants.
iii. Vessels.
List No. 2: Construction Items and Materials to be Allowed Entry into Gaza only for PA-authorized Projects Implemented by the International Community
Israel will only permit their entry into Gaza to facilitate construction projects in Gaza which have been authorized by the PA and implemented and monitored by the international community. The often cited reason is that such materials could be used by Hamas for military purposes (building bunkers, fortifying positions and digging tunnels)
This list includes:

Portland cement and lime (in bulk, bags or barrels)Natural and Quarry aggregates and all varieties of gravelReady concretePrecast concrete elements and productsSteel elements and/or construction productsIron for foundations and columns, at any diameter (including wielded steel nets)Steel cables of any widthForms for construction elements (plastics or galvanized iron)Industrialized forms for casting concretePlastic or composite beams more than 4 mm thickThermal isolation materials and productsBlocs (at any width) - Concrete; Silicate; Ytong or its equivalent; or gypsumMaterials and products for sealing structuresAsphalt and its components (Bitumen, emulsion) in aggregate or packagedSteel elements or framing products for constructionCast concrete elements and products for drainage over 1 m in diameterPrecast units and sea-borne containersVehicles, excluding private cars and including 4X4 vehicles and other categories of motor vehicles liable to be used in terror activitiesLumber beams and boards more than 2 cm thick, (liable to be used in "offensive" tunneling aimed at penetrating Israeli territory), unless incorporated in finished productsSpecific procedures, on a case by case basis, will be established so as to permit the transfer of such lumber for other purposes in Gaza.

----------


## Norton

> Ancient history colours every single aspect of this conflict and will never, ever be irrelevant.


The world moves on. Borders change. Power changes. Palestine was a country at one time. Jesus was a Palestinian Jew and Rome ruled over Palestine. Then more recently the Brits who were hated by both Arabs and Jews.

If ancient history was to rule there would never be a settlement.

This is an Arab (muslim) vs Israel (jew) issue that needs to be sorted between the two.

If you are referring this ancient rivalry as ancient history then I agree.

Neither side is clean here and both have leaders and allies who obviously are not interested in peace. 

Clearly the UN, US and others are incapable of sorting this and it won't be until both sides get leadership serious in peace.

At the moment the Arab Peace Initiative has a level of support from both sides so get on with it.

----------


## Maanaam

False allegations? But what we say is true.

As for your list, is it complete? No. Because the Israelis don't always itemise, but categorise, for example "communications equipment" is a category, so no phones, no speakers, no microphones no radios, no televisions etc etc.
Currently there are 8500 items listed as "dual use" that are applied for but yet to be approved. Oppression much?
Cement is needed to build houses. Not allowed.
Hey, the import of chickpeas was not allowed until 2007 and only after international outrage.
As for my list, why did the Israelis prohibit cinnamon and kids books (and all the rest) up till 7 years ago? (according to you and assuming your list is correct and complete and the items are still not prohibited?).
I'm vague here because Israel is cagey about being public on what it restricts (international outrage and all). It seems like a current and complete list of prohibited items is not available. Importers find out when their goods reach the border.

For the sake of the discussion, lets take your 2010 items as current and complete (which it's not). Can you, Fluke, offer an explanation as to why most Middle East condiments and children's education materials were prohibited?

----------


## Fluke

> False allegations? But what we say is true.
> 
> As for your list, is it complete? No. Because the Israelis don't always itemise, but categorise, for example "communications equipment" is a category, so no phones, no speakers, no microphones no radios, no televisions etc etc.
> Currently there are 8500 items listed as "dual use" that are applied for but yet to be approved. Oppression much?
> Cement is needed to build houses. Not allowed.
> Hey, the import of chickpeas was not allowed until 2007 and only after international outrage.
> As for my list, why did the Israelis prohibit cinnamon and kids books (and all the rest) up till 7 years ago? (according to you and assuming your list is correct and complete and the items are still not prohibited?).
> I'm vague here because Israel is cagey about being public on what it restricts (international outrage and all). It seems like a current and complete list of prohibited items is not available. Importers find out when their goods reach the border.
> 
> For the sake of the discussion, lets take your 2010 items as current and complete (which it's not). Can you, Fluke, offer an explanation as to why most Middle East condiments and children's education materials were prohibited?


   Once again, you are making things up, the things that you say that have been banned were not actually banned .Phones, TVs microphones were not banned and chocolate wasnt banned , it was just restricted to certain people who could import it .
   Children's educational materials were also not banned, although you will use crayons to denote them as being educational materials
   If crayons were banned , that would be enough for you to claim that ALL childrens educational materials were banned

----------


## jabir

> So what, that doesn't give European Jews the right to take over land where indigenous people live, and have lived for thousands of years.


Hey, I never did say Jewish history in the region gives them the right to occupy that land, just injecting some factual relevance that often gets lost when people use a one-sided historical connection; in this respect it is as Jewish as it is Arab/Muslim. And I make no distinction between European or Sefardi Jews, which seems to matter to whoever brought it up a few posts back. 




> Lets say my gt gt gt grandfather converted to Zoroastriansim. Does that give me and my kids a right to a section of Iran, even though we have never been there, and neither has my dad, his dad before him nor any of our ancestors that we can reliably trace. No, it's a preposterous idea and I'm sure the Iranians would scoff at it.
> 
> So what gives Europen Jews the right to occupy Palestine based on their religion and intangible claims to ancestry?


Nothing to argue, you said it. 

And no surprise, the poor soul that either has no opinion or is too anal to share it, has this weird compulsion to show he exists via repos; whatcha say, Neverna, does that accurately describe you? Grow a spine, man up and disagree in public.

----------


## jabir

> Ancient history is irrelevant. The UN partition making Palestine into a zone for the Arabs and a zone for the Jews (Israel) is the one in place today. The Jews accepted the agreement the Arabs did not and shortly after attacked Israel and took a wuppin.
> 
> Really a dumb move on the Arabs part. Motivated no doubt by religious differences. Had they accepted UN resolution 181 back in 1947 by now Palestine would be a nation rather than what it is now. A place of constant strife with incompetent leaders who still refuse to acknowlege Israel as a legitimate state and in turn Israeli bogus territorial expansion in the name of "security".
> 
> Far from a Trump fan and well know his declaration of Jerusalem as the capital was done for domestic political reasons, the impact on Israel/Palestine peace has little impact.
> 
> Peace will come only when Arabs accept Israel and the UN comes down hard on illegal Israeli expansion and occupation of Palestinian territory.
> 
> Fat chance as long as US has veto power.


Well put, nothing wrong with being critical of your own team, the greatest enemy of the Arab/Pals is not Israel but their own leaders. They could have had what they purport to want, peace and prosperity, generations ago and without continuous strife and the loss of countless thousands of lives.

----------


## Fluke

> And no surprise, the poor soul that either has no opinion or is too anal to share it, has this weird compulsion to show he exists via repos; whatcha say, Neverna, does that accurately describe you? Grow a spine, man up and disagree in public.


   Neverna also does that to me, he doesnt reply much on forums, just sends me a red every few days with a few words of abuse

----------


## jabir

> Straight out of the four by two playbook.
> 
> They build schools and hospitals, they build agriculture and factories. Then the four by twos say they are terrorist hideouts and blow them up.
> 
> It's a great vicious circle. Terrorise them into retaliating then go "OOH OOH LOOK THEY'RE TERRORISTS!".


Not sure if you're baiting or serious, but what schools and hospitals, agriculture and factories are you talking about? The ones I know were paid for and built and maintained by UNRWA, Europe and the US; it's a very big tit.

There are two ways to go, either genuine long term peace which will benefit both sides, or attrition until a fatal blow to Israel can somehow be delivered at some future time even if it means sacrificing many or most or all Palestinians in the process.

We could discuss it forever and never agree, so I'm going with the latter because I believe this is the ultimate goal; neither side will swing the other, so pointless squabbling. But if I am wrong and the end goal is true and permanent peace which directly contradicts the core principles of Islam, then as I said before this can only be achieved by starting the demolition process at the top layer of leaders and working down.

----------


## jabir

> Neverna also does that to me, he doesnt reply much on forums, just sends me a red every few days with a few words of abuse


Gives him purpose, I suppose, poor obsessive thing, sent me a string of reds over 7 months when I wasn't even active on the board.

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## sabang

Prince Turki al Faisal: No, Mr. Trump, Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel 

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...215-story.html





_Prince Turki al Faisal of Saudi Arabia is a former ambassador to the United States and Britain._

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## Fluke

> Gives him purpose, I suppose, poor obsessive thing, sent me a string of reds over 7 months when I wasn't even active on the board.


   Ageing One hasn't sent me a red yet this week , Im getting a bit worried about him.
Could someone go and check-up on him, make sure that hes OK

----------


## stroller

> If ancient history was to rule there would never be a settlement.
> 
> This is an Arab (muslim) vs Israel (jew) issue that needs to be sorted between the two.


Unfortunately, ancient myth & history are an essential part of their identity, specially for Israel, and negotiation positions are based on that.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Not sure if you're baiting or serious, but what schools and hospitals, agriculture and factories are you talking about? The ones I know were paid for and built and maintained by UNRWA, Europe and the US; it's a very big tit.
> 
> There are two ways to go, either genuine long term peace which will benefit both sides, or attrition until a fatal blow to Israel can somehow be delivered at some future time even if it means sacrificing many or most or all Palestinians in the process.
> 
> We could discuss it forever and never agree, so I'm going with the latter because I believe this is the ultimate goal; neither side will swing the other, so pointless squabbling. But if I am wrong and the end goal is true and permanent peace which directly contradicts the core principles of Islam, then as I said before this can only be achieved by starting the demolition process at the top layer of leaders and working down.



Well for a start most of the reconstruction (and it's usually REconstruction) is paid for by the GCC.

And as for peace "contradicting the core values of Islam", that's just pathetic.

It's like saying smiting is the core value of Christianity.

But you are right, neither side will swing the other. However, as I said, any time there is progress in negotiation, Israel sabotages it.

It's time the US stopped them sucking on its tit, to use your vernacular, and made the handouts conditional on their undoing the expanisionism. Perhaps they then might be more amenable to giving back what they keep stealing.

----------


## Neverna

> Gives him purpose, I suppose, poor obsessive thing, sent me a string of reds over 7 months when I wasn't even active on the board.


But when I send you reds when you're active, you whinge. Grow a spine, jabir-the-fake. 

And by the way, I sent your other nic some greens. You didn't complain about them. Odd (you).

----------


## wasabi

> Neverna also does that to me, he doesnt reply much on forums, just sends me a red every few days with a few words of abuse


Ant Ronbertson does that to Me as well.

----------


## Maanaam

Yeah, yeah, and I get 2 reds a week from Lulu, regular as clockwork, ever since I joined. So fckukcing what.
Including on this thread. 
So, Israel......

----------


## jabir

> But when I send you reds when you're active, you whinge. Grow a spine, jabir-the-fake.


 :rofl: 
Brilliant and expected. Hey Neverna, sad thing that needs to be noticed, do you have an opinion? On anything? I mean, >12k posts suggests you mean something, to someone, somehow, occasionally, maybe.

But seriously, do you feel a surge of power (or consequence) to repo posters that are inactive for so long that one might reasonable guess (or hope in your case) they have left the board? 

 :rofl: 



> And by the way, I sent your other nic some greens. You didn't complain about them. Odd (you).


 :rofl: 

Pray tell which, I have so many.

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## jabir

> Unfortunately, ancient myth & history are an essential part of their identity, specially for Israel, and negotiation positions are based on that.


I have no problem with playing the history game for propaganda purposes, that happens all the time, but adding a bit of reality might help reach a starting position for negotiations.

For example, al-Habbash (Abbas adviser and chairman of the Supreme Council for Sharia Justice) recently made the ludicrous claim that Jerusalem has belonged to the Palestinians for 5,000 years. Does anyone believe or know anyone that's at risk of believing such crap?

So as Manaam and others have said, legitimate Jewish claims of historical connection do not give them a right to steal land. Then why should rubbish claims of Palestinian historical connections (ie, 5k years) give them any greater rights to the land - based on those claims?

People do notice absurd one-sidedness, and those that don't are hardly worthy of making great historical decisions.

----------


## Fluke

> Ageing One hasn't sent me a red yet this week , Im getting a bit worried about him.
> Could someone go and check-up on him, make sure that hes OK


  Neverna has sent me three reds in a week and hasnt spoken to me on forums  , I guess that hes the shy silent type without much to say for himself .
   As I havent sent Neverna any reds , heres a few red words . fukkin twat, bollcks , LOL idiot  .Sorry about not being able to send rep .

----------


## Neverna

> fukkin twat, bollcks , LOL idiot  .Sorry about not being able to send rep .[/COLOR]


Liar. You have sent me two recently. But anyway, there's a thread for that. This is about Trump announcing Jerusalem as capital of Israel.

----------


## Fluke

> Liar. You have sent me two recently. But anyway, there's a thread for that. This is about Trump announcing Jerusalem as capital of Israel.


   I did mean in reply to the three reds that you sent me this week .
I did play sending repo for a while , but I got bored of it , rather silly really .
When is my next red due , scheduled for Wednesday ?

----------


## harrybarracuda

Reds is for pooves.

----------


## jabir

> Reds is for pooves.


For sure, I don't remember ever sending one though god knows how many deserve to be buried in them.

----------


## Neverna

> For sure, I don't remember ever sending one though god knows how many deserve to be buried in them.


But you don't have the spine to send them?  ::doglol::

----------


## Maanaam

Guys...I'm not a Cujo, but really, this should be taken to "Show Us Your Repo".

----------


## Neverna

^ Indeed. I don't know why they do it.

----------


## jabir

> But you don't have the spine to send them?


Haha so funny, but do you have a coherent opinion on Trump and/or Jerusalem, considering just yesterday you reminded Fluke of the thread title? Please stay on topic, no need to add hypocrisy to the list.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> But you don't have the spine to send them?


Reds is for pooves.

----------


## sabang

> the ludicrous claim that Jerusalem has belonged to the Palestinians for 5,000 years


What is so ludicrous about that claim? They have continuously inhabited the place since prehistoric times- long before there was such a thing as a Jew or Moslem. Or Palestinian for that matter- the term was not coined until Roman times.

So you think the remote descendants of people who have not inhabited the place for some 2,000 years have a legitimate claim to 'ownership', yet the continuous inhabitants throughout the course of history do not? Now that is ludicrous.

----------


## terry57

Love Trump love life.   :Smile:

----------


## jabir

> What is so ludicrous about that claim? They have continuously inhabited the place since prehistoric times- long before there was such a thing as a Jew or Moslem. *Or Palestinian for that matter*- the term was not coined until Roman times.
> 
> So you think the remote descendants of people who have not inhabited the place for some 2,000 years have a legitimate claim to 'ownership', yet the continuous inhabitants throughout the course of history do not? Now that is ludicrous.


5k years ago they were the very same people.

----------


## Neverna

This JPost article from two weeks ago appears to have just been wishful thinking, or poor analysis. Certainly wide of the mark. 




> *Arab states will likely cave if US declares Jerusalem Israel's capital*
> 
> December 3, 2017 22:43*Unless domestic reaction becomes  unexpectedly explosive, Riyadh, Cairo and Amman can be expected to  confine their responses to verbal missives that will soon subside.*
> 
> 
>              If the Palestinians are counting on a strong response from Arab states if the Trump administration recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital, they are likely to be disappointed.
> 
> Palestinian  Foreign Minister Riyadh Malki called Sunday for an emergency meeting of  the Arab League amid US media reports that Trump is planning to  recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital Wednesday. Malki said the  meeting would tackle "necessary steps regarding this irresponsible  American measure."
> 
> ...

----------


## Neverna

*Jerusalem: US vetoes UN resolution rejecting Trump's declaration*

The US has vetoed a draft UN Security Council resolution rejecting President Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

The text put forward by Egypt affirmed that any decisions on the status of Jerusalem had "no legal effect, are null and void and must be rescinded ".

The 14 other members of the council voted in favour of the motion.

Separately US Vice-President Mike Pence postponed a controversial scheduled visit to the Middle East, due to begin on Tuesday, until mid-January.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has refused to meet the vice-president following the Jerusalem decision.

A veto by Washington was inevitable, our correspondent adds, But the four other permanent members of the Security Council - China, France, Russia and the UK - and 10 non-permanent members voted in favour.


Full article here: Jerusalem: US vetoes UN resolution rejecting Trump's declaration - BBC News

----------


## Klondyke

^Veto at UN Security Council?
And the whole world is not enraged by the fact that never can be a case concerning the 5 übermensch veto-states? 
Such a law is (was) only in an absolute monarchy...

----------


## jabir

> This JPost article from two weeks ago appears to have just been wishful thinking, or poor analysis. Certainly wide of the mark.


Riyad, Cairo and Amman may well restrict themselves to verbal disapproval, esp if they wish to keep it 'friendly', but I doubt the same could be said for the Umma.

----------


## Neverna

The UN text was put forward by Egypt. That's more than just verbal disapproval. 
Jordan began proceedings on convening an emergency meeting of the Arab League and the OIC. That's more than just verbal disapproval.

Of course, there's little more they can do. I doubt they will break diplomatic relations. They can refuse to meet US diplomats for a while but I doubt they will do much of any significance.

----------


## Cujo

> 5k years ago they were the very same people.


Then how is it only 5k years later they are physically and mentally so different? Fast evolution?

----------


## HermantheGerman

> This JPost article from two weeks ago appears to have just been wishful thinking, or poor analysis. Certainly wide of the mark.


It was spot on !!
Besides a small fart coming out of Erdogan's mouth, I haven't seen any "unexpected explosive action" from the Pitiful or Palestein people.
But come to think of it, nobody really gives a damn what the Arab states have to say.

----------


## Klondyke

^That's not true. Such a unified front against US by all Arab states and entire UN Security Council has not been seen in the past 50 years or so. 
And all the protests around the world?

----------


## Fluke

> ^That's not true. Such a unified front against US by all Arab states and entire UN Security Council has not been seen in the past 50 years or so. 
> And all the protests around the world?


   Saudi sees Iran as its main threat , Iran have been making inroads into Lebanon via Hezbollah , If Israel were to become a Palestinian state , Saudi would have an hostile Islamic state , backed by Iran on its southern borders .
   I have a feeling that Saudi and Israel have an understanding and that Saudi secretly supports the state of Israel and they wouldnt be in favour of an hostile Islamic state on its southern border

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Saudi sees Iran as its main threat , Iran have been making inroads into Lebanon via Hezbollah , If Israel were to become a Palestinian state , Saudi would have an hostile Islamic state , backed by Iran on its southern borders .
>    I have a feeling that Saudi and Israel have an understanding and that Saudi secretly supports the state of Israel and they wouldnt be in favour of an hostile Islamic state on its southern border


What on earth are you blabbering on about.

Can you read a map, you moron?

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ^That's not true. Such a unified front against US by all Arab states and entire UN Security Council has not been seen in the past 50 years or so. 
> And all the protests around the world?


Those are very  "unexpected explosive actions" indeed  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Or you mean protests like these ?




> ISLAMABAD, Pakistan  Two suicide bombers attacked a church packed with  worshipers on Sunday in southwestern Pakistan, killing at least nine  people and injuring at least 35 others, several critically, officials  said.


Sorry, but I can't tell the difference anymore between protests and attacks  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Fluke

> What on earth are you blabbering on about.
> 
> Can you read a map, you moron?


  Yes I can read a map .
I did mean Israels southern border and Saudis Norther border .
But the location of the border isnt important , whether it be north , south ,east or west

----------


## Fluke

> ^That's not true. Such a unified front against US by all Arab states and entire UN Security Council has not been seen in the past 50 years or so. 
> And all the protests around the world?


  Yemen fired a rocket at Riyadh yesterday , first one I believe , thats hardly a show of Arab unity, is it ?
Saudi is bombing Yemen , again, hardly unity, is it

----------


## jabir

> Saudi sees Iran as its main threat , Iran have been making inroads into Lebanon via Hezbollah , If Israel were to become a Palestinian state , Saudi would have an hostile Islamic state , backed by Iran on its southern borders .
>    I have a feeling that Saudi and Israel have an understanding and that Saudi secretly supports the state of Israel and they wouldnt be in favour of an hostile Islamic state on its southern border


True that Saudi sees Iran as a greater threat than Israel, which they despise but also know they are not going to nuke or invade or use proxies against Saudi interests anytime soon. Problem is there are so many conflicting religious, geopolitical, military and economic liaisons in the region that nobody can tell when which 'friend' will be next to betray another.

----------


## jabir

> ...Sorry, but I can't tell the difference anymore between protests and attacks


One is a manifestation of the other.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ^That's not true. Such a unified front against US by all Arab states and entire UN Security Council has not been seen in the past 50 years or so. 
> And all the protests around the world?


Listen up Kiddo, I'am going to put it in simple words for you. The Arabs/Muslims just don't have the mental capacity to match up against Israel/Jews. If they would not have the support of the West, it would be just another terribly sounding noise/fart of some muezzin shouting his BS from a mosque.

I think we all agree what Israel is doing is not right. But for me its just hard to have sympathy with a religion that doesn't get along with anyone on this planet....NOT EVEN THEMSELVES.

Israel is building walls ! We are building barricades ! Can you see the difference ?









*I can't !!!!*

----------


## Fluke

> What on earth are you blabbering on about.
> 
> Can you read a map, you moron?


   Saudis arch enemies are to the East of them Iran , just the Persian gulf separating them , Saudi are also fighting a proxy war with Iran in Yemen , Bahrain, Syria and Lebanon .
  So, very basically , you have an Iranian coalition of Iran and various groups in the aforementioned Countries fighting against a Saudi coalition with also various factions and Arab Countries supporting them , including Pakistan , Kuwait , Bahrain and various others .
   The conflict is about Iran v Saudi , and the USA supports Saudi and therefore Saudi are on the same side as Israel .
Not exactly allies , but certainly not enemies .
   In the big scheme of things , Saudi and their coalition are not concerned about Jerusalems status . The Saudis are opposed to Irans Hezbollah , who are aligned with the Palestinians , so, Saudi and Israel both have a common enemy .

----------


## Maanaam

> I think we all agree what Israel is doing is not right.


I agree that Israel is wrong. Unfortunately not everyone does agree, least of all Fluke, and with him the US government.







> But for me its just hard to have sympathy with a religion


Nobody wants you to have sympathy for a religion. But what about the poor oppressed people? The children?

----------


## Klondyke

> The Arabs/Muslims just don't have the mental capacity to match up against Israel/Jews. If they would not have the support of the West,




Your "simple words" are not so simple: 

Whom did you mean by the "support of the West"?  (There is no "support" as a "support")... :Confused:

----------


## sabang

> If Israel were to become a Palestinian state


Moronic. Who on earth is talking about Israel becoming a Palestinian state?
The state of Palestine is illegally occupied by neighboring Israel- that is the problem.
So what is it to be- one combined state, or two? Just fekk off out of there, or make a larger combined nation.

----------


## Klondyke

> Yemen fired a rocket at Riyadh yesterday , first one I believe , thats hardly a show of Arab unity, is it ?
> Saudi is bombing Yemen , again, hardly unity, is it


piffling?


*Turkey Summit Blasts Trump Decision on Jerusalem*

ISTANBUL  Leaders of majority Muslim nations gathered in Istanbul Wednesday and condemned U.S. President Donald Trumps decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel as unlawful. The meeting came as unrest in the Middle East continues, along with growing criticism over the Jerusalem move.

The gathering was under the auspices of the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference, OIC. Turkey currently leads the OIC and the emergency summit was called by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

"I am inviting the countries who value international law and fairness to recognize occupied Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine," Erdogan told leaders at the start of the meeting Wednesday.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Jordanian King Abdullah II, Azerbaijan President Ilham Aliyev, Bangladeshi President Abdoul Hamid and Iranian President Hassan Rouhani are among the 22 heads of state and government attended. Egypt and Saudi Arabia, along with 23 other countries, sent lower-level delegations.
https://www.voanews.com/a/islamic-wo...e/4161688.html

----------


## Fluke

> Moronic. Who on earth is talking about Israel becoming a Palestinian state?
> The state of Palestine is illegally occupied by neighboring Israel- that is the problem.
> So what is it to be- one combined state, or two? Just fekk off out of there, or make a larger combined nation.


  Hamas , half the Palestinian contingent are insisting on a Palestinian state in place of Israel .

----------


## Fluke

> piffling?
> 
> 
> *Turkey Summit Blasts Trump Decision on Jerusalem*
> 
> ISTANBUL  Leaders of majority Muslim nations gathered in Istanbul Wednesday and condemned U.S. President Donald Trumps decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel as unlawful. The meeting came as unrest in the Middle East continues, along with growing criticism over the Jerusalem move.
> 
> The gathering was under the auspices of the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference, OIC. Turkey currently leads the OIC and the emergency summit was called by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
> 
> ...


   Yes, the Arab states may be united in their non agreement with the USA Embassy being in Jerusalem , but this will not unite them to form a coalition to oppose Israel military .

----------


## sabang

^  Linky, or just lieing out of your arse yet again? FYI, Hamas has officially accepted the two state solution, subject only to a Referendum. And they are nowhere near half of the Palestinian people, not even close.

----------


## Maanaam

^ And that Yemeni rocket at Riyadh "yesterday" was about a month ago. This guy really keeps up with the news.

----------


## Fluke

> ^  Linky, or just lieing out of your arse yet again? FYI, Hamas has officially accepted the two state solution, subject only to a Referendum. And they are nowhere near half of the Palestinian people, not even close.


 I have posted to you the Hamas charter from 2017 time and time again , which states as such, why should I post it once again , if you were unable to comprehend it from the last three times that I posted it .
   Also do try to understand things, rather than looking for inconsistencies , when I stated "half of Palestinians" , I didnt mean 50 %, I mean the Gaza half and "half" can mean one of a pair, rather than 50 % .

----------


## Fluke

> ^ And that Yemeni rocket at Riyadh "yesterday" was about a month ago. This guy really keeps up with the news.


  It was yesterday, do a websearch

----------


## Neverna

^^ Fluke has got to be related to Trump!

----------


## Fluke

> ^ And that Yemeni rocket at Riyadh "yesterday" was about a month ago. This guy really keeps up with the news.


  There you go, I did a websearch for you 

Yemen rebel ballistic missile 'intercepted over Riyadh' - BBC News
19 December 2017

----------


## Maanaam

> There you go, I did a websearch for you 
> 
> Yemen rebel ballistic missile 'intercepted over Riyadh' - BBC News
> 19 December 2017



I beg your pardon then.

The last one was in the news (and referred to in your article) but I had not seen this news.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Yes I can read a map .
> I did mean Israels southern border and Saudis Norther border .
> But the location of the border isnt important , whether it be north , south ,east or west


The location of the border is very important WHEN THERE FUCKING ISN'T ONE.

You twat.

----------


## sabang

> I have posted to you the Hamas charter from 2017 time and time again


You mean, this one:-

*Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders

*   This article is *8 months old*




Hamas has unveiled a new political programme softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied by Israel in the six-day war of 1967.


The new document states the Islamist movement it is not seeking war with the Jewish people – only with Zionism that drives the occupation of Palestine.


The new document also insists that Hamas is a not a revolutionary force that seeks to intervene in other countries, a commitment that is likely to be welcomed by other states such as Egypt.

.... The new charter also abandons past references claiming Hamas is part of a pan-national Muslim Brotherhood, to which it was closely linked when formed.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...l-1967-borders


Here is the 2017 Hamas charter in full- not that I think you will ever read it, but other people with an ounce of brain matter might well-

*Hamas in 2017: The document in full*
Hamas in 2017: The document in full | Middle East Eye

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I beg your pardon then.
> 
> The last one was in the news (and referred to in your article) but I had not seen this news.


Silly boys trying to blow up the palace.

Now they're in for it.

 :Smile:

----------


## Fluke

> The location of the border is very important WHEN THERE FUCKING ISN'T ONE.
> 
> You twat.


  Yes, there isnt a land border , there is a little bit of water separating them , a few kilometers from Israel to Saudi, I would guess .

----------


## Fluke

> You mean, this one:-
> 
> *Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders
> 
> *   This article is *8 months old*


  How many time do we have to have this discussion ?
Here is a paragrph from the 2017 Hamas charter stating ALL the land of Isreal and the occupied territory should be a Palestinan state
Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. The expulsion and banishment of the Palestinian people from their land and the establishment of the Zionist entity therein do not annul the right of the Palestinian people to their entire land and do not entrench any rights therein for the usurping Zionist entity

----------


## Fluke

> How many time do we have to have this discussion ?
> Here is a paragrph from the 2017 Hamas charter stating ALL the land of Isreal and the occupied territory should be a Palestinan state
> Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. The expulsion and banishment of the Palestinian people from their land and the establishment of the Zionist entity therein do not annul the right of the Palestinian people to their entire land and do not entrench any rights therein for the usurping Zionist entity


  If you are unaware of those place names in Arabic , they are the furthest points , north, sough, east and west of the whole land

----------


## sabang

*20.* _Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus._

----------


## Fluke

> The location of the border is very important WHEN THERE FUCKING ISN'T ONE.
> 
> You twat.


  Harry , I didnt state that there is a border between Saudi and Israel , When I said that Saudi wouldnt want a hostile Iranian backed Palestine on its border , I did mean in such close proximity , there is just a river sized piece of water separating them  , is the context of what I meant

----------


## Fluke

> *20.* _Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus._


  Yes , that states that they want a full  Palestinian state with no Israel

----------


## Fluke

> Yes I can read a map .
> I did mean Israels southern border and Saudis Norther border .


  Look Harry ^ I didnt even say that Israel and Saudi share a border .
I was talking about the close proximity between Israels southern border and Saudis norther border , a few kilometers between the two

----------


## Maanaam

> 20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.





> Yes , that states that they want a full Palestinian state with no Israel


No it doesn't. It's accepting the lines as of 4th of June 1967, which is a big concession rather than insisting on the 1947 partition lines, or, if it rejected Israel altogether it would be saying there are no lines.
The "Zionist entity" Hamas talks about is the political group.
You will note that Hamas states "river to the sea". This line is taken straight out of Likud's manifesto, the difference being Likud wants no other state whereas Hamas concedes the 1967 lines.

Consider this, too. Without Israel there would be no Hamas. Without the Zionists claiming the river to the sea, there would be no need for Hamas to claim the river to the sea sans what Israel took in 1967.

----------


## Fluke

> No it doesn't. It's accepting the lines as of 4th of June 1967, which is a big concession rather than insisting on the 1947 partition lines, or, if it rejected Israel altogether it would be saying there are no lines.
> The "Zionist entity" Hamas talks about is the political group.
> You will note that Hamas states "river to the sea". This line is taken straight out of Likud's manifesto, the difference being Likud wants no other state whereas Hamas concedes the 1967 lines.
> 
> Consider this, too. Without Israel there would be no Hamas. Without the Zionists claiming the river to the sea, there would be no need for Hamas to claim the river to the sea sans what Israel took in 1967.


   The Hamas charter is contradictory , it is saying two different things .
It says that it wants from river to sea and it accepts the green line .
It cannot be both .
Which is it ?
Considering it states numerous times "from river to sea , furthest north to furthest south
One must come the the conclusion they they mean what is said the most times .
It also could be taken that Hamas accept the green line , as in Jordon having rights to the West bank .
Who knows what they mean , it makes no sense

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Harry , I didnt state that there is a border between Saudi and Israel , When I said that Saudi wouldnt want a hostile Iranian backed Palestine on its border , I did mean in such close proximity , there is just a river sized piece of water separating them  , is the context of what I meant


They won't give a fuck, it's in the arse end of nowhere.

They are more concerned about Bahrain being taken over by the Shi'a majority - it's right next door to their major oil installations.

You're just making shit up and you sound stupid.

----------


## terry57

^

Arry's da man Eh.   :smiley laughing:

----------


## Maanaam

> The Hamas charter is contradictory , it is saying two different things .
> It says that it wants from river to sea and it accepts the green line .
> It cannot be both .
> Which is it ?
> Considering it states numerous times "from river to sea , furthest north to furthest south
> One must come the the conclusion they they mean what is said the most times .
> It also could be taken that Hamas accept the green line , as in Jordon having rights to the West bank .
> Who knows what they mean , it makes no sense


It's really quite simple if you look at what has been occupied by the Isrealis since 1967.
It's clear the 1967 lines are accepted but all the expansion is not. Some contiguity is needed too, of course. Do Palestinians have to cross Israel to get from Gaza to visit their families in the West Bank?

And you conveniently ignored my assertion that Hamas would not even exist had it not been for Israeli expansionism. Nor did you respond to my information that "from the river to the sea" was the Zionist's and later Likud's stated goal, and that they meant ALL of it with no Palestine at all and expelling the Arabs unless they submitted to their apartheid system.

----------


## Cujo

Oh dear. Watch out dissenters, the U.S. will be taking names.



> The US ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, has warned UN members she will be “taking names” of countries that vote to reject Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
> 
> In a letter seen by the Guardian, Haley told countries – including European delegations – that she will report back to the US president with the names of those who support a draft resolution rejecting the US move at the UN general assembly on Thursday, adding that Trump took the issue personally.
> 
> 
> Haley writes: “As you consider your vote, I encourage you to know the president and the US take this vote personally.
> 
> 
> “The president will be watching this vote carefully and has requested I report back on those who voted against us,” she continued.
> ...


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...em-recognition

----------


## Maanaam

^ FFS. 
And Trump taking it personally? FFS again. He's supposed to be representing the best interests of the US, not his personal agenda.

----------


## Fluke

> And you conveniently ignored my assertion that Hamas would not even exist had it not been for Israeli expansionism. Nor did you respond to my information that "from the river to the sea" was the Zionist's and later Likud's stated goal, and that they meant ALL of it with no Palestine at all and expelling the Arabs unless they submitted to their apartheid system.


   Although I do prefer to stick to one topic at a time , rather than discussing various topics all at once

----------


## Fluke

> They won't give a fuck, it's in the arse end of nowhere.
> 
> They are more concerned about Bahrain being taken over by the Shi'a majority - it's right next door to their major oil installations.
> 
> You're just making shit up and you sound stupid.


   Harry, it was just recently that you stated that this area is oil/gas rich and now suddenly its the "arse end of nowhere"
Which is it ? It cannot be both .
   If all out war breaks out between Saudi and Iran , the Saudi/Israel border area would be a back door entrance for Hezbollah/Iran , if Palestine was an Iranian backed state .
  It would open out a whole new front for Saudi to defend .
Consider the volatility of Syria and Iraq , if these Countries fell under Iranian influence and Palestine did as well , Saudi would be surrounded by Iranian hostile forces .
   This is why Saudi and Israel are "allies"

----------


## Maanaam

^^ It brings it back.
You say Hamas wants to have a Palestine with no Israel (which is false), but Hamas would not even exist if Israel had not been expanding into Palestine! And Hamas's words "river to the sea" are borrowed from Israel!
Get real.

----------


## Fluke

> ^^ It brings it back.
> You say Hamas wants to have a Palestine with no Israel (which is false), but Hamas would not even exist if Israel had not been expanding into Palestine! And Hamas's words "river to the sea" are borrowed from Israel!
> Get real.


  Anti Israel sentiment among the Palestinians existed long before Israel were even in the West bank .
When Jordan held the West bank from 1948-67 , the Arabs waged war against Israel in order to get the whole land back .
   This is number 1 on the Hamas Charter 

2. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people.

  The area stated encompasses the whole of Israel, West bank and Gaza .

----------


## Norton

Caugth in the middle of an expansionist right wing Israeli government, a proxi war between sunni and shia Islam, an egotistical ignoramus fool US Pres and I'm afraid the Palestinians are well and truely screwed.

----------


## Maanaam

> Anti Israel sentiment among the Palestinians existed long before Israel were even in the West bank .
> When Jordan held the West bank from 1948-67 , the Arabs waged war against Israel in order to get the whole land back .
>    This is number 1 on the Hamas Charter 
> 
> 2. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people.
> 
>   The area stated encompasses the whole of Israel, West bank and Gaza .


So what does acknowleging the 1967 lines mean, that you quoted in the charter?
And you still don't acknowledge, while repeating stuff about Hamas, that Hamas wouldn't exist without Israel's oppression and expansion.

----------


## Fluke

> So what does acknowleging the 1967 lines mean, that you quoted in the charter?
> And you still don't acknowledge, while repeating stuff about Hamas, that Hamas wouldn't exist without Israel's oppression and expansion.


  I have already answered both of those questions above .

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Harry, it was just recently that you stated that this area is oil/gas rich and now suddenly its the "arse end of nowhere"
> Which is it ? It cannot be both .
>    If all out war breaks out between Saudi and Iran , the Saudi/Israel border area would be a back door entrance for Hezbollah/Iran , if Palestine was an Iranian backed state .
>   It would open out a whole new front for Saudi to defend .
> Consider the volatility of Syria and Iraq , if these Countries fell under Iranian influence and Palestine did as well , Saudi would be surrounded by Iranian hostile forces .
>    This is why Saudi and Israel are "allies"


This email is complete bollocks.

I said THE MED was oil and gas rich. Moron.

Syria and Iraq are ALREADY under Iranian influence in case you haven't noticed. Moron.

Saudi and Israel are buddying up behind the scenes because neither of them want to cop missiles from Iran. Moron.

In short, you're a moron.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Caugth in the middle of an expansionist right wing Israeli government, a proxi war between sunni and shia Islam, an egotistical ignoramus fool US Pres and I'm afraid the Palestinians are well and truely screwed.


Yup...

----------


## Fluke

> This email is complete bollocks.
> 
> .


   That wasnt an E-mail Harry, that was a post on Teakdoor .

----------


## Fluke

> This email is complete bollocks.
> 
> I said THE MED was oil and gas rich. Moron.
> 
> Syria and Iraq are ALREADY under Iranian influence in case you haven't noticed. Moron.
> 
> Saudi and Israel are buddying up behind the scenes because neither of them want to cop missiles from Iran. Moron.
> 
> In short, you're a moron.


  The Med with its oil rich gas and oil fields are not too far from the "arse end of nowhere" , as we are talking about World locations, they are pretty much in the same place .
  Parts of Syria and Irag may have limited Iranian influence at the moment, but I did mean if they had influence over the whole countries .
   Yes, I did also say that Israel and Saudi are the enemies of Iran , so, they are allied in that sense. So, we agree on that , and as you consider myself to be a "Moron" because of an opinion that we both share, you must also consider yourself to be a moron .

----------


## Klondyke

> Silly boys trying to blow up the palace.
> 
> Now they're in for it.


There are thousands of Yemeni people killed, millions on a verge of starving, the poor country destroyed - and the world is "enraged" when the new sheriff in town parades the "undeniable" evidence of a Yemeni (Houthi) missile. How dare the Yemeni ...

----------


## Dragonfly

> Caugth in the middle of an expansionist right wing Israeli government, a proxi war between sunni and shia Islam, an egotistical ignoramus fool US Pres and I'm afraid the Palestinians are well and truely screwed.


absolutely, another genocide on the way, with the world standing by and watching

----------


## sabang

> He's supposed to be representing the best interests of Sheldon Adelson


Fixed that for ya. Probably one of the most evil men on this planet.

So what is your answer to the 'Palestinian problem' (ie, one of the longest continuous habitations of a place in human history) flake? Genocide? Ethnic cleansing? "Drive them into the Sea" as Settler scum are wont to say?

Does it occur to you how much you have in common with the scum from the other side? Let the adults sort this out- Israel is going nowhere, and neither is Palestine.

----------


## Fluke

> Fixed that for ya. Probably one of the most evil men on this planet.
> 
> So what is your answer to the 'Palestinian problem' (ie, one of the longest continuous habitations of a place in human history) flake? Genocide? Ethnic cleansing? "Drive them into the Sea" as Settler scum are wont to say?
> 
> Does it occur to you how much you have in common with the scum from the other side? Let the adults sort this out- Israel is going nowhere, and neither is Palestine.


 You are getting your feathers ruffled about an opinion that many people do not have , you are labeling the Israelis as "scum" and you are attributing opinions to them, which many do not have .
  Palestinians who accepted Israel were given Israeli citizenship and there has been no genocide.
You ask me a question, then answer it for me (although you were kind enough to give me three possible answers) then you call me "scum" for that answer ....and then tell me to let the "adults" sort it out .
I do hope that you were not including yourself in that category, because that isnt how adults discuss situations

----------


## Klondyke

> absolutely, another genocide on the way, with the world standing by and watching


Still miles to go to the NWO's target of the world population (950 mil.?)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The Med with its oil rich gas and oil fields are not too far from the "arse end of nowhere" , as we are talking about World locations, they are pretty much in the same place .
>   Parts of Syria and Irag may have limited Iranian influence at the moment, but I did mean if they had influence over the whole countries .
>    Yes, I did also say that Israel and Saudi are the enemies of Iran , so, they are allied in that sense. So, we agree on that , and as you consider myself to be a "Moron" because of an opinion that we both share, you must also consider yourself to be a moron .


I don't share your opinions, because you're an idiot trying to stumble your way through simple facts with a blindfold on.

Here are some easy ones for you:

1. Saudi Arabia does not have a Mediterranean coastline, even though it would fucking love one.

2.  The Alawites govern Syria. The Alawites are sect of the Twelver branch of Shi'a Islam. So the Shi'a do not have "limited influence" in Syria, they fucking govern it you idiot.

3. Iran is a Shi'a country.

4. Iraq now has a majority Shi'a government and 60% of the population are Shi'a.

5. Iran is a Shi'a country.

6. You said Saudi and Iran are buddying up because of Hizbollah. Israel can bomb Hizbollah out of existence in a heartbeat. They are not bothered about Hizbollah, neither are Saudi. Plus Hizbollah are not the suicide bombers, the vast majority of suicide attacks in Israel and Saudi Arabia are from Sunni.

Israel and Saudi are worried about Iranian missiles, and Saudi are worried about Iranian interference in their own Shi'a population. They both have an interest in seeing the good ol' USA bomb Iran to smithereens.

Basically if there was a street called Moron street in a town called Morontown, in the state of Moron, in a country called Moronland, on the planet Moron, you'd fucking come from it.

Added: And Klondyke would be your next door neighbour.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Palestinians who accepted Israel were given Israeli citizenship and there has been no genocide.


And that's why you're an utter fucking moron. You have no fucking idea what Israel has done for the last 50 years.

----------


## Fluke

> And that's why you're an utter fucking moron. You have no fucking idea what Israel has done for the last 50 years.


No Harry , I am correct, there are over 1 million Palestinian Arabs living in Israel with Israeli passports, these are the descendants of the Palestinians who accepted Israel as a Jewish state .The West bankers and the Gazians are the descendants of the Palestinians who didnt accept the Israeli state

----------


## harrybarracuda

> No Harry , I am correct, there are over 1 million Palestinian Arabs living in Israel with Israeli passports, these are the descendants of the Palestinians who accepted Israel as a Jewish state .The West bankers and the Gazians are the descendants of the Palestinians who didnt accept the Israeli state


FFS you don't even read what I'm fucking replying to.

You're just an idiot.

----------


## Fluke

> I don't share your opinions, because you're an idiot trying to stumble your way through simple facts with a blindfold on.
> 
> Here are some easy ones for you:
> 
> 1. Saudi Arabia does not have a Mediterranean coastline, even though it would fucking love one.
> 
> .


   I did not say that it did , I was talking about the general area . The Mediterranean area rich in gas and oil is 130 miles from the arse end of nowhere (Saudi border), which in World distance terms , is very close .
   So, the billion $ gas and oil fields are 130 miles from that Saudi border, which makes it the arse end of somewhere

----------


## Fluke

> FFS you don't even read what I'm fucking replying to.
> 
> You're just an idiot.


  OK, you explain to me .
If I was incorrect and Israel didnt give Palestinians Arabs Israeli citizenship, the ones who accepted Israel as a Jewish nation, how did those Palestinian Arabs manage to get Israeli citizenship, if Israel didnt give it to them ?

----------


## Fluke

2.  The Alawites govern Syria. The Alawites are sect of the Twelver branch of Shi'a Islam. So the Shi'a do not have "limited influence" in Syria, they fucking govern it you idiot.

.[/QUOTE]

There is currently a civil war going on in Syria, Harry, so Syria isnt governed by anyone
Assad, Iran and Hezbollah are fighting against various other factions and some of those factions are fighting each other
   Saudi and Israel do not want Iran to gain any influence in Syria, so, they have an alliance
Not how sure you claim a group governs a Country, when that Country is in civil war

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I did not say that it did , I was talking about the general area . The Mediterranean area rich in gas and oil is 130 miles from the arse end of nowhere (Saudi border), which in World distance terms , is very close .
>    So, the billion $ gas and oil fields are 130 miles from that Saudi border, which makes it the arse end of somewhere


You're an idiot.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> OK, you explain to me .
> If I was incorrect and Israel didnt give Palestinians Arabs Israeli citizenship, the ones who accepted Israel as a Jewish nation, how did those Palestinian Arabs manage to get Israeli citizenship, if Israel didnt give it to them ?


You're an idiot.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> 2.  The Alawites govern Syria. The Alawites are sect of the Twelver branch of Shi'a Islam. So the Shi'a do not have "limited influence" in Syria, they fucking govern it you idiot.
> 
> .


[/QUOTE]

You're an idiot.

Enough is enough. You just talk bollocks to yourself, I won't let you drag me down to your level.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Fluke

You're an idiot.

Enough is enough. You just talk bollocks to yourself, I won't let you drag me down to your level.

 ::chitown:: [/QUOTE]

  From my point of view, Harry, I am trying to talk with you and you are just calling me an idiot .
  We seem to have a different opinion about what constitutes an idiot .
So : *Idiots talk civilly and clever people call the other person an idiot*.
That isnt an opinion that I share with you

----------


## harrybarracuda

The next time I see someone in pub rolling their eyes at the village idiot, I'm going to say "It's like listening to Fluke's stream of ignorant semiconsciousness" and buy them a drink.

----------


## Fluke

> The next time I see someone in pub rolling their eyes at the village idiot, I'm going to say "It's like listening to Fluke's stream of ignorant semiconsciousness" and buy them a drink.


   It remains to be seen as to whether he will buy you a drink back , or prefer to go back to the village idiot .
After talking to you, he will probably go back to the village idiot thinking...."Hes not so stupid, after all"

----------


## stroller

Which sane person would have a drink with Barry?

----------


## Fluke

> 6. You said Saudi and Iran are buddying up because of Hizbollah. .


   No Harry , I did say that Saudi and Israel are buddying up , because of the threat of Iran/Hizbollah .
Iraq and Syria are in of state of civil war , or various violent conflicts within the region . Iran has been militarily supporting group involved in the battles, although it would be to much to detail exactly what where and who on here .
  Hezbollah are also active in Lebanon and they support the Palestinians .
Saudi are concerned that they whole northern border area on Iraq/Syria/Lebanon could fall under Iranian influence , if the Iranian backed militia are successful .
   Saudi are war with Yemen in the south and Iran itself is to the east
Saudi fear being surrounded by Iranian backed hostile nations .
Saudi and Israel stand together against Iran .
Its rather like the England and Welsh fans in the Russian world cup
Russian fans were attacking England and Welsh fans , and the arch enemies, England and Wales , teamed up to fight against the russian
 * Fuck off Russia were are England and Wales" the song went 
 *Fuck off Iran, we are Israel and Saudi* , the song goes

----------


## jabir

> 2.  The Alawites govern Syria. The Alawites are sect of the Twelver branch of Shi'a Islam. So the Shi'a do not have "limited influence" in Syria, they fucking govern it you idiot.
> 
> .


There is currently a civil war going on in Syria, Harry, so Syria isnt governed by anyone
Assad, Iran and Hezbollah are fighting against various other factions and some of those factions are fighting each other
   Saudi and Israel do not want Iran to gain any influence in Syria, so, they have an alliance
Not how sure you claim a group governs a Country, when that Country is in civil war[/QUOTE]

You are right on the Alawites, which is an important reason for Iranian support though some people, just like most western leaders tend to underestimate the importance of religion in the stew, which is part of the reason things so easily race out of control. Meanwhile, Iran's influence is creeping through Iraq and Syria with enough established in Lebanon to keep Israel on her toes and as you say also Saudi, which is why Israel is in bed with Saudi for as long is convenient to the Saudis that still have her on their deathlist. 

When the smoke clears, which I reckon will be a long time even though western leaders as ever will propagandise to keep their voters happy, Iran will have solid influence across that region and also at Saudi's southern border in Yemen. 

jmho

----------


## harrybarracuda

> When the smoke clears, which I reckon will be a long time even though western leaders as ever will propagandise to keep their voters happy, Iran will have solid influence across that region and also at Saudi's southern border in Yemen. 
> 
> jmho


They've always had influence in Syria, but yes, they've added Yemen and the seppos virtually gave them Iraq on a plate.

Not to mention the large Shi'a populations in Bahrain and Saudi which they've been agitating since 1979.

----------


## Klondyke

*After U.S. veto, U.N. General Assembly to meet on Jerusalem status*

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The 193-member United Nations General Assembly will hold a rare emergency special session on Thursday at the request of Arab and Muslim states on U.S. President Donald Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, sparking a warning from Washington that it will “take names.”

Palestinian U.N. envoy Riyad Mansour said the General Assembly would vote on a draft resolution calling for Trump’s declaration to be withdrawn, which was vetoed by the United States in the 15-member U.N. Security Council on Monday.

The remaining 14 Security Council members voted in favor of the Egyptian-drafted resolution, which did not specifically mention the United States or Trump but which expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem.”

Mansour said on Monday he hoped there would be “overwhelming support” in the General Assembly for the resolution. Such a vote is non-binding, but carries political weight.

U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley, in a letter to dozens of U.N. states on Tuesday seen by Reuters, warned that the United States would remember those who voted for the resolution criticizing the U.S. decision.

“The president will be watching this vote carefully and has requested I report back on those countries who voted against us. We will take note of each and every vote on this issue,” Haley wrote.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1ED21H

----------


## Klondyke

*151 UN STATES VOTE TO DISAVOW ISRAELI TIES TO JERUSALEM*

 DECEMBER 1, 2017

The UN General Assembly voted overwhelmingly to disavow Israeli ties to Jerusalem as part of six anti-Israel resolutions it approved on Thursday in New York. The vote was 151 in favor and six against, with nine abstentions.

In New York, only six countries out of 193 UN member states fully supported Israels ties Jerusalem: Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, the United States and Israel itself. 

The nine countries who abstained were: Australia, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Honduras, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, South Sudan and Togo

151 UN states vote to disavow Israeli ties to Jerusalem - Israel News - Jerusalem Post

Wondering why no mentioning of the Kingdom of Tonga, haven't they be present?

----------


## Klondyke

*UN Jerusalem vote: US 'will be taking names'*
20 December 2017

The US says it "will be taking names" during a UN General Assembly vote on a resolution criticising its recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Permanent representative Nikki Haley warned member states that President Donald Trump had asked her to report on "who voted against us" on Thursday.

The draft resolution does not mention the US, but says any decisions on Jerusalem should be cancelled.

Mr Trump later threatened to cut off financial aid to those who backed it.
"They take hundreds of millions of dollars and even billions of dollars, and then they vote against us. Well, we're watching those votes," he told reporters at the White House. "Let them vote against us. We'll save a lot. We don't care."
UN Jerusalem vote: US 'will be taking names' - BBC News

It is really a change (to make America great again): 
-Obama had declared he will twist arms (of those not obedient enough)
-Trump knows the talk of money: My money, your vote...

(and we are wondering about money voting in Thailand?)

----------


## Fluke

> In New York, only six countries out of 193 UN member states fully supported Israel’s ties Jerusalem: Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, the United States and Israel itself.


  The Canadians may have been concerned about Donald building a wall in the north as well ?

----------


## sabang

Ironic that the US now finds itself more discredited and isolated on the world stage & international community than at any time in living memory. It has even resorted now to making petty threats with it's aid money- which is a double irony when you consider that the largest recipient of foreign aid from the US by far is (you guessed it)- Israel. China must be rubbing it's hands in glee at these trump sized gifts. Actually, in terms of it's GDP, the US is already quite parsimonious with foreign aid- other affluent countries, such as Australia & the Skandi nations, donate a considerably higher percentage of GDP.

And if there has ever been a Potus so domestically unpopular at this stage of his term as Trump during my lifetime (58 years), I'd be curious to hear about it. Final irony- he is even more (considerably more) unpopular with the American Jewish community than the broad US population as a whole.

When he said America would 'build a wall', in a metaphorical sense he was not joking. So meet the new Israel- it's the USA. As recently as the turn of the century, I would have considered this unthinkable. Seems good ole' Osama knew exactly what he was doing after all- just like Israel, he played the US like a fiddle.

----------


## jabir

> *After U.S. veto, U.N. General Assembly to meet on Jerusalem status*
> 
> UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The 193-member United Nations General Assembly will hold a rare emergency special session on Thursday at the request of Arab and Muslim states on U.S. President Donald Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, sparking a warning from Washington that it will “take names.”
> 
> Palestinian U.N. envoy Riyad Mansour said the General Assembly would vote on a draft resolution calling for Trump’s declaration to be withdrawn, which was vetoed by the United States in the 15-member U.N. Security Council on Monday.
> 
> The remaining 14 Security Council members voted in favor of the Egyptian-drafted resolution, which did not specifically mention the United States or Trump but which expressed “deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem.”
> 
> Mansour said on Monday he hoped there would be “overwhelming support” in the General Assembly for the resolution. Such a vote is non-binding, but carries political weight.
> ...


Making noise, he's already recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and cannot unrecognise it. And why the surprise? - last year he said he would, and we knew he was about to days before he did, which means Cairo/Riyadh had plenty of opportunity to go through diplomatic channels.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Nobody wants you to have sympathy for a religion. But what about the poor oppressed people? The children?


Thank you for mentioning the oppressed people, women and children. Now lets be honest about this and stop being so hypocritical about this so called Palestinian State. You and other people here act like with a new Palestinian State the oppresion will stop. Will it ????
1. Do you really support the making of another shithole ?
2. What will this State look like ? Saudi, Iran, Brunei, Pakistan,Algeria, Egypt etc. another shithole for people with no future. Another shithole where you can not convert to another religion etc. ANOTHER ISLAMIC SHITHOLE STATE ?
3. EVERY Palestinian in this world who has tasted FREEDOM, would never return to this shithole called Palestine. Any idea why ? 

Do you want to be responsible for another shit hole that oppresses people and children ? Have you ever seen or heard of a Palestinian school book ? It makes Nazi school books look like Mary Poppins.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> You mean, this one:-
> 
> *Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders
> 
> *   This article is *8 months old*
> 
> Hamas in 2017: The document in full | Middle East Eye


Has anybody read this ? Looks to me like some very poor educated low Lifes have written it.
Actually it reads like some (satanic) verses out of the Qur'an !
It could also pass as some quotes out of a ill written Sunnah or Hadith.

How can any sane person support this ?
I will be delighted to hear your opinions.

----------


## sabang

> ANOTHER ISLAMIC SHITHOLE STATE ?


Sorry to rain on your parade herman- but close to 20% of Palestinians are Christian. Nearby Lebanon, Syria and Jordan also have substantial Christian minorities, as well as Sunni, Shiite & Druze communities.



> Actually it reads like some (satanic) verses out of the Qur'an !


Well if we take out the 'satanic' nonsense, it does a bit, dunnit. But that's Islamists for ya- insha'Allah & all that. Like, so what? Ever read any stuff from the ultra religious HebeeJebes? Same deal.



> How can any sane person support this ?


Can't help ya much there- personally I don't see how any rational person could follow any religion. But that changes nothing- Universal human rights & International Law are applicable to humanity, not based on faith.

----------


## Klondyke

> Thank you for mentioning the oppressed people, women and children. Now lets be honest about this and stop being so hypocritical about this so called Palestinian State. You and other people here act like with a new Palestinian State the oppresion will stop. Will it ????
> 1. Do you really support the making of another shithole ?
> 2. What will this State look like ? Saudi, Iran, Brunei, Pakistan,Algeria, Egypt etc. another shithole for people with no future. Another shithole where you can not convert to another religion etc. ANOTHER ISLAMIC SHITHOLE STATE ?
> 3. EVERY Palestinian in this world who has tasted FREEDOM, would never return to this shithole called Palestine. Any idea why ? 
> 
> Do you want to be responsible for another shit hole that oppresses people and children ? Have you ever seen or heard of a Palestinian school book ? It makes Nazi school books look like Mary Poppins.


^It reminds me something my parents (and the whole world) had read some 80 years ago trumpeted from a country (you might not know  :yerman: ).

----------


## Fluke

> Sorry to rain on your parade herman- but close to 20% of Palestinians are Christian..


  You seem to have put your decimal point in the wrong place , the decimal point should be between the 2 and the 0


As of 2015, Palestinian Christians comprise approximately 12.5% of the population of the West Bank, and less than 1% in the Gaza Strip

----------


## sabang

My figure was wrong (should've checked). More Palestinian Christians reside in both the diaspora and in Israel than in the state of Palestine these days. They have been leaving in droves sadly- albeit because of the Israeli occupation, rather than persecution from fellow Palestinian Muslims, plus they have a low birth rate. Hardly any left (~3000) in the more Islamist Gaza strip now. Anyway, enough of them to extinguish the Christmas tree in Bethlehem in protest, about an hour after Trump's statement. The Mayor of Bethlehem, and two other Palestinian towns, are Christians.

----------


## Norton

> they have a low birth rate


It's the rules. Thou shalt not commit adultery nor covet thy neighbors wife bits that cause the problem. 
 :ourrules:

----------


## Fluke

> . The Mayor of Bethlehem, and two other Palestinian towns, are Christians.


   Although the requirement to be Mayor of Betlehem is that you are a Christian .
Muslims cannot be Mayor of Bethlehem 
Which two towns are Christian ?

----------


## Norton

The mayors of Ramallah, Birzeit, Bethlehem, Zababdeh, Jifna, Ein 'Arik, Aboud, Taybeh, Beit Jala and Beit Sahour are Christians. The Governor of Tubas, Marwan Tubassi, is a Christian.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Christians

----------


## Maanaam

> Thank you for mentioning the oppressed people, women and children. Now lets be honest about this and stop being so hypocritical about this so called Palestinian State. You and other people here act like with a new Palestinian State the oppresion will stop. Will it ????
> 1. Do you really support the making of another shithole ?
> 2. What will this State look like ? Saudi, Iran, Brunei, Pakistan,Algeria, Egypt etc. another shithole for people with no future. Another shithole where you can not convert to another religion etc. ANOTHER ISLAMIC SHITHOLE STATE ?
> 3. EVERY Palestinian in this world who has tasted FREEDOM, would never return to this shithole called Palestine. Any idea why ? 
> 
> Do you want to be responsible for another shit hole that oppresses people and children ? Have you ever seen or heard of a Palestinian school book ? It makes Nazi school books look like Mary Poppins.


Funny how you acknowledge the oppressed women and children but still don't give a fkcuk about them.
As Sabang said, human rights have nothing to do with their religion.
It's almost as if you are saying Muslim children don't have human rights.

----------


## Topper

What impresses me the most about the UN vote is that LITERALLY the world's government are saying he's a fuck up for his decision.  His response was at best something that would come from a sixth grader.

----------


## Klondyke

*UN votes on Jerusalem after Trump warns 'we're watching'*

Diplomats expect strong support for the resolution, which is non-binding, despite the US pressure to either abstain, vote against it or simply not turn up for the vote.

On Tuesday, US Ambassador Nikki Haley sent an email to fellow UN envoys to put them on notice that "the president will be watching this vote carefully and has requested I report back on those countries who voted against us."

"We will take note of each and every vote on this issue," she wrote in the message seen by AFP.

On Twitter, Haley posted that "the US will be taking names" when the ambassadors of the 193-nation assembly cast their vote on Thursday.

"Nikki, that was the right message," Trump said.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/173221-un-...m-status-today

----------


## Klondyke

*Which countries are most vulnerable to US pressure over UN Jerusalem vote?*

"We're watching those votes," Trump said Wednesday.
"Let them vote against us, we'll save a lot. We don't care. But this isn't like it used to be where they could vote against you and then you pay them hundreds of millions of dollars and nobody knows what they're doing."

US ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley also attempted to put pressure on other countries not to vote against Washington, vowing to "take names."

But how realistic is this threat? And which governments are most vulnerable to US economic pressure?



*Massive military aid budget
*
Ironically, one of the most vulnerable to US financial pressure is also the least likely to go against Washington in Thursday's UN vote: Israel.

In 2016, Israel received $3.1 billion in military funding from the US, according to the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). Only Afghanistan and Iraq, where the US has been involved militarily since 2001 and 2003 respectively, received more money from the US Department of Defense (DOD).

The fourth biggest recipient of military funding however, is far more sensitive. Egypt received $1.1 billion from the DOD's Foreign Military Financing program and it's Cairo which is leading the push at the UN to condemn Trump's Jerusalem decision.

Jerusalem UN vote: Which countries are most vulnerable to US pressure? - CNNPolitics

----------


## stroller

> We don't care. But this isn't like it used to be where they could vote against you and then you pay them hundreds of millions of dollars and nobody knows what they're doing.


Difficult to believe this moron got voted into office - says a lot about the American people and their understanding of 'democracy'.

----------


## DrB0b

It seems to me that until the Romans kicked off the Jewish diaspora the Jews had contributed fick-all to human culture. As soon as they began to be properly  oppressed they became one of the most important cultural influences of the last two millennia. They are the historical and sociological equivalent of Foie Gras. We have to be horrendously cruel to them because the end product of our cruelty is wonderful. Sorry jewmen and jewwomen, but that's just the way it is. Next time choose a better God.

----------


## Maanaam

> In 2016, Israel received $3.1 billion in military funding from the US, according to the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). Only Afghanistan and Iraq, where the US has been involved militarily since 2001 and 2003 respectively, received more money from the US Department of Defense (DOD).
> 
> The fourth biggest recipient of military funding however, is far more sensitive. Egypt received $1.1 billion from the DOD's Foreign Military Financing program and it's Cairo which is leading the push at the UN to condemn Trump's Jerusalem decision.


"Military aid" is deceptive and highly unlikely to be withdrawn from Iraq or Egypt because the aid comes in the form of, "Here, we'll give you money that you can spend on the weapons we sell you. You must spend every last cent on US-made weapons or you get nothing". It's all for the US military industrial complex.






> As soon as they began to be properly oppressed they became one of the most important cultural influences


They're like those Western woman that thrive on being victims. Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews and he's the most notorious monster, Stalin killed 25 million Russian people and we hardly ever refer to it, it's the Jews who are the victims. Even today, a Jew will cry personal victimhood based on his gt gt grandfather's stint in Auschwitz and expect everyone to support him in his bid to do whatever he wants.
Somehow the word "antisemite" became a worse label than "racist". A person bigoted against blacks was considered bad, but an antisemite was worse. They have made victimhood a part of their culture and somehow made antisemitism the worst thing in gentile culture.

----------


## tomcat

> Even today, a Jew will cry personal victimhood based on his gt gt grandfather's stint in Auschwitz and expect everyone to support him in his bid to do whatever he wants.


...unfortunate generalization...

----------


## Maanaam

Yes it is a generalisation, but nothing unfortunate about it. Of course not all Jews cry victim alll the time....and they're the ones the Israelis call "self-hating Jews".

----------


## tomcat

> not all Jews cry victim alll the time....and they're the ones the Israelis call "self-hating Jews".


...further misfortune concerning generalizations...

----------


## Maanaam

"Misfortune"?
Are you JT?

----------


## Klondyke

> Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews and he's the most notorious monster, Stalin killed 25 million Russian people


All these figures are highly exaggerated...

----------


## Klondyke

UN General Assembly voting for Jerusalem as Israel Capitol:
128 against 
9 for 
25 abstained

----------


## Klondyke



----------


## Klondyke



----------


## tomcat

...so, Israel jumps to USD6 billion immediately...the others all wait interminably for their visas...

----------


## Fluke

> ...so, Israel jumps to USD6 billion immediately.....


   No, there has been no announcement from the USA about adjusting aid to anyone .
Its still the same as in the graph

----------


## Maanaam

> All these figures are highly exaggerated...


Careful Klonny, anyone claiming the 6 million figure is exagerated is automatically branded a holocaust denier and thus an antisemite... and thus scum of the earth and if a public figure, will be driven out of town. Some countries will even refuse a visa to any public holocaust deniers.
Israel NEEDS the holocaust to maintain fuel for it's everlasting victimhood despite Israel itself being an ethnic cleanser.

----------


## sabang

> Next time choose a better God.


The best Jews I've met (and there are several) are Atheist. And they like contemporary Israel no more than I.

----------


## Klondyke

And nobody enraged that one country is blackmailing others to influence voting?
on the ground where is so proudly declared that all countries are sovereign?

----------


## OhOh

> "Military aid" is deceptive and highly unlikely to be withdrawn from Iraq or Egypt because the aid comes in the form of, "Here, we'll give you money that you can spend on the weapons we sell you. You must spend every last cent on US-made weapons or you get nothing". It's all for the US military industrial complex.


The other "Aid" is also spent on the donators equipment, contractors and "maintenance". Well it's listed as maintenance but it is actually bribes for the local Lords and Ladies.




> And nobody enraged that one country is blackmailing others to influence voting?
> on the ground where is so proudly declared that all countries are sovereign?


Will the next UNGA and UNSC votes be for sanctions?

----------


## AntRobertson

> In New York, only six countries out of 193 UN member states fully supported Israel’s ties Jerusalem: Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, the United States and Israel itself. 
> 
> The nine countries who abstained were: Australia, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Honduras, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, South Sudan and Togo


Canadaland voting for is mildly surprising and as for Australia... grow a back bone youse drongo cants!

----------


## Maanaam

> And nobody enraged that one country is blackmailing others to influence voting?


Of course not. The US does it overtly or covertly all the time.

----------


## tomcat

> anyone claiming the 6 million figure is exagerated is automatically branded a holocaust denier and thus an antisemite


...a fixation on unfortunate generalizations...



> Some countries will even refuse a visa to any public holocaust deniers.


...there's a huge difference between those who dispute the estimate of Jewish (or other) deaths in WWII and Holocaust deniers..._something_ is addling your brain...

----------


## Topper

Sadly, I see this as a win for trump....he'll be able to say he did what "americans" wanted despite what the world thinks, including someone of our closest allies.

Only, who are these Americans?  Who really cares where the embassy is located in Israel? How many here have pondered on the location of the embassy in Isreal before this came up.  Why is moving it so important?

Secondly, if trump is such a businessman, why is he spending money on a new embassy when the one we've got is adequate?

Lastly, does anyone here think the opinion of the US's closest allies matter to trump and how is this obvious lack of care going to manifest it in return from the us's allies?

----------


## Klondyke

> In New York, only six countries out of 193 UN member states fully supported Israels ties Jerusalem: Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, the United States and Israel itself. 
> 
> The nine countries who abstained were: Australia, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Honduras, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, South Sudan and Togo
> Canadaland voting for is mildly surprising and as for Australia... grow a back bone youse drongo cants!


In fact, the above listing you are referring to is from the previous meeting beg. Dec. The yesterday results are shown on the larger picture listing:

*As of USA Today:*
The seven countries that sided Thursday with the United States and Israel on a U.N. General Assembly resolution declaring "null and void" President Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital are all small and obscure as world players.

Here is the list:

1. Guatemala 

2. Honduras

3. Marshall Islands

4. Micronesia

5. Nauru

6. Palau

7. Togo
(Kingdom of Tonga missed the plane to NYC  :Smile: )

If you haven't heard of most of these nations, it's because they are tiny islands in the Pacific. 

Four of the countries  Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru and Palau  have combined populations less than Boise, Idaho. Nauru, for example, has a population of 10,000. 


Another 35 nations abstained from the 128-9 vote. Two are the United States closest neighbors, Canada and Mexico. The others are allies across the globe. 

Here's the list:

1. Antigua-Barbuda

2. Argentina

3. Australia

4. Bahamas

5. Benin

6. Bhutan

7. Bosnia-Herzegovina

8. Cameroon

9. Canada

10. Colombia

11. Croatia

12. Czech Republic

13. Dominican Republic

14. Equatorial Guinea

15. Fiji

16. Haiti

17. Hungary

18. Jamaica

19. Kiribati

20. Latvia

21. Lesotho

22. Malawi

23. Mexico

24. Panama

25. Paraguay

26. Philippines

27. Poland

28. Romania

29. Rwanda

30. Solomon Islands

31. South Sudan

32. Trinidad-Tobago

33. Tuvalu

34. Uganda

35. Vanuatu

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lem/974098001/

----------


## tomcat

> Who really cares where the embassy is located in Israel?


...Christian evangelists (vote base) and many Republican Jews (financial support)...tRump himself probably has no opinion on the matter as, unlike the Republican tax "reform", where the US embassy is located doesn't affect his investments...

----------


## Norton



----------


## Klondyke

> If you haven't heard of most of these nations, it's because they are tiny islands in the Pacific. 
> 
> Four of the countries — Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru and Palau — have combined populations less than Boise, Idaho. Nauru, for example, has a population of 10,000.


No matter how tiny they are, they are very concerned about the Capitol of Israel...

----------


## Klondyke

^As a matter of fact, it's not a bad idea to scrap all this UN business (and save money) 
Why not to vote remotely just from each home country and cast the vote according what they are said (by Big Brother)...

----------


## HermantheGerman

*Jerusalem to reward Trump by putting his name on train station*

Israel is poised to reward President Trump for recognizing Jerusalem as its capital – by naming a train station near the Western Wall after him, according to reports. Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz is going full steam ahead with a  plan to extend the city’s future high-speed rail line to the Western  Wall, where he wants Trump’s name to grace a station, Ynet News of Israel reported.
 “The Western Wall is the holiest site of the Jewish people,” Katz  said, “and I have decided to name the train station leading to it after  the president of the United States, Donald Trump, following his  courageous and historic decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital  of the State of Israel.”

 The *“Donald John Trump station”* is one of two stations proposed for  the extension of a line nearing completion between Tel Aviv and the  western entrance to Jerusalem.


https://nypost.com/2017/12/27/jerusa...train-station/

----------


## wasabi

Good news then, he's got his wall named after him in the Holy Land. He's bigger than the Pope.

----------


## tomcat

> He's bigger than the Pope


...girth matters...

----------


## DrB0b

An Israeli train station named after Donald Trump! I can't even begin to imagine the security issues. Won't catch me travelling from there!

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Canadaland voting for is mildly surprising and as for Australia... grow a back bone youse drongo cants!


Unfortunately Malcolm Turnbull doesn't do backbone. Very disappointed in the Australian govt response. Australia has become a U.S. lap dog and an Israeli  apologist. Although it is hard to illicit sympathy for Islamic Palestinians in many Australians, the Israeli oppression also affects Palestinian Christians a point hardly mentioned in the press for obvious reasons. 
Why we need to do this is beyond me. We are the friendliest partner they have in the Asia pacific region. While other countries are closing or wanting to close U.S bases Australia has expanded cooperation with U.S forces. We contribute about 100 million dollars a year to that white elephant called the U.N. and the U.S. has built up a trade surplus with Australia of over 150 billion dollars in the last 10 years, aided by an FTA that greatly favours the U.S. It's really time we forged a much more independent foreign policy. Especially with the advent of Trump.

----------


## Fluke

> Good news then, he's got his wall named after him in the Holy Land. He's bigger than the Pope.


  They havent named a wall after him, they've named a train station after him

----------


## lom

> They havent named a wall after him, they've named a train station after him


When did they do that?

----------


## Fluke

> When did they do that?


  They did it in 2022

----------


## Maanaam

> An Israeli train station named after Donald Trump! I can't even begin to imagine the security issues. Won't catch me travelling from there!


Good point. Cetainly a symbolic target.

----------


## sabang

Perhaps we will see the phoenix like rebirth of Trump (kosher) Steak- _"The Best Steak in the World!!"_, Trump water, all served aboard the new Trump shuttle, and in the Trump train station. Naturally, a casino too (although daddy Sheldon Adelson might insist on the sole rights to that).

Please, somebody just bomb it.

----------


## Fluke

> An Israeli train station named after Donald Trump! I can't even begin to imagine the security issues. Won't catch me travelling from there!


 With terrorism supporters such as Sabang living on this planet , high security will be needed to keep the passengers safe

----------


## HermantheGerman

> An Israeli train station named after Donald Trump! I  can't even begin to imagine the security issues. Won't catch me  travelling from there!





> Good point. Cetainly a symbolic target.


Bad point, very bad point.
He forgot to add symbolic targets like mosques, churches, bus stations, markets, restaurants, female pedestrians, etc. etc. etc.

Please forgive me if I left too many out.

----------


## Fluke

> By the same measure, it is also the capital of Palestine. But the obvious fact is, all of the political infrastructure, including foreign Embassies, are in Ramallah & Tel Aviv.


The Israeli Government offices,Their Parliament, the Knesset is located in Jerusalem

----------


## wasabi

> They havent named a wall after him, they've named a train station after him


Thanks Fluke, as everybody knows you are always spot on with your corrections of others.
I concede that I was utterly foolish in thinking that the Roman fort wall, mistakingly thought to be a temple wall is false.
The Temple wall is not the "Wailing" wall.
The wailing wall, the big blocks of Roman Fort walls that are made from a different stone to temple stone, the one the Jews pin notes to every day, is not made from Temple Solomans Rock.

----------


## sabang

> With terrorism supporters such as Sabang living on this planet


Far from it- bombing 'The donald trump station' and all that it stands for would be an act of Humanity. Most New Yorkers would probably agree- and perhaps you might have heard, a considerable handful of Jews live there too.

But puhleez gawd (sorry, jahweh) don't ever let trumpf get involved with the design of this eponymous masterpiece.

----------


## RPETER65

One of the biggest, most stubborn and costliest untruths of our time is the notion that the jihad waged by Arabs in the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Gaza against Jews in Israel is a national struggle of an indigenous people for independence.
No matter the facts, the lie persists to the tune of billions of dollars in international aid and political prestige, which makes it increasingly difficult for anyone involved to admit that the whole thing is nothing more than a propaganda stunt.
Unlike the fairy tale of ‘The Emperor’s New Clothes’, everyone pretends to be blind and deaf when it is pointed out that the emperor is naked. In fact, if the emperor himself were to stand up and yell, ‘I am naked folks, go home!’ the crowd would go on complimenting his non-existent garments.
Last week the naked emperor did just that:
“Before the Balfour Promise, when the Ottoman rule [1517-1917] ended, Palestine’s political borders as we know them today did not exist, and there was nothing called a Palestinian people with a political identity as we know today”, historian Abd Al-Ghani admitted on official PA TV on November 1.
“Since Palestine’s lines of administrative division stretched from east to west and included Jordan and southern Lebanon, and like all peoples of the region [the Palestinians] were liberated from the Turkish rule and immediately moved to colonial rule, without forming a Palestinian people’s political identity.”
In 1917, says this Arab historian on official PA TV, there was no such thing as a Palestinian people. This statement amounts to saying that the whole narrative of an ‘indigenous Palestinian people’ was made up at a later point in time.
As Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad speaking on Al-Hekma TV said in March 2012: “Brothers, half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis. Who are the Palestinians? We have many families called Al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian. Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the North, from Aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians…”
There is a reason, why the “Palestinian National Museum” is empty of historical artifacts.
The Arab historian’s admission corroborates the observations of 19th century travelers to the region, who notably had no specific political agenda when they visited, unlike so many visitors to Israel today:
”Outside the gates of Jerusalem, we saw indeed no living object, heard no living sound”, wrote French poet Alphonse de Lamartine about his visit in 1835.
”The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population.” wrote British Consul James Finn in his 1857 description of the Holy Land.
”Palestine sits in a sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that withered its fields and fettered its energies. …Palestine is desolate and unlovely….It is a hopeless dreary, heartbroken land.” wrote American author Mark Twain in his description of his visit in 1867.
Nevertheless, the Arab propaganda machine gets away with publishing fantastic falsehoods, such as this one on the Palestinian Authority’s tourism website: “With a history that envelops more than one million years, Palestine has played an important role in human civilization. The crucible of prehistoric cultures, it is where settled society, the alphabet, religion, and literature developed, and would become a meeting place for diverse cultures and ideas that shaped the world we know today”.
The international community not only approves of these falsehoods, it happily pays for them.
Historian Abd Al-Ghani’s declaration on PA TV was a historic, highly newsworthy admission that ought to have made the headlines everywhere, considering the importance the issue is given by political leaders, diplomats, the media and other establishment figures all over the world.
After all, if the Arabs themselves admit that the ‘Palestinian people’ is an invented entity, should not the consequence be that the countless UN projects, billions of dollars in international aid, and the endless campaigns against Israel cease and be used for more noble purposes?
The answer is yes, but no one is paying attention.
We live in a post-factual world. Facts no longer have any currency, unlike feelings and ideological posturing. The truth has been reduced to a troublesome inconvenience and if it happens to stare you in the face, nothing could be easier than closing your eyes or simply looking away.
____________________
_Judith Bergman is a columnist and political analyst_
*[Find this article interesting? You can find more in depth articles on Israel and the Middle East @en.mida.org.il]*

----------


## RPETER65

One of the biggest, most stubborn and costliest untruths of our time is the notion that the jihad waged by Arabs in the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Gaza against Jews in Israel is a national struggle of an indigenous people for independence.
No matter the facts, the lie persists to the tune of billions of dollars in international aid and political prestige, which makes it increasingly difficult for anyone involved to admit that the whole thing is nothing more than a propaganda stunt.
Unlike the fairy tale of The Emperors New Clothes, everyone pretends to be blind and deaf when it is pointed out that the emperor is naked. In fact, if the emperor himself were to stand up and yell, I am naked folks, go home! the crowd would go on complimenting his non-existent garments.
Last week the naked emperor did just that:
Before the Balfour Promise, when the Ottoman rule [1517-1917] ended, Palestines political borders as we know them today did not exist, and there was nothing called a Palestinian people with a political identity as we know today, historian Abd Al-Ghani admitted on official PA TV on November 1.
Since Palestines lines of administrative division stretched from east to west and included Jordan and southern Lebanon, and like all peoples of the region [the Palestinians] were liberated from the Turkish rule and immediately moved to colonial rule, without forming a Palestinian peoples political identity.
In 1917, says this Arab historian on official PA TV, there was no such thing as a Palestinian people. This statement amounts to saying that the whole narrative of an indigenous Palestinian people was made up at a later point in time.
As Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad speaking on Al-Hekma TV said in March 2012: Brothers, half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis. Who are the Palestinians? We have many families called Al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian. Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the North, from Aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians
There is a reason, why the Palestinian National Museum is empty of historical artifacts.
The Arab historians admission corroborates the observations of 19th century travelers to the region, who notably had no specific political agenda when they visited, unlike so many visitors to Israel today:
Outside the gates of Jerusalem, we saw indeed no living object, heard no living sound, wrote French poet Alphonse de Lamartine about his visit in 1835.
The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population. wrote British Consul James Finn in his 1857 description of the Holy Land.
Palestine sits in a sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that withered its fields and fettered its energies. Palestine is desolate and unlovely.It is a hopeless dreary, heartbroken land. wrote American author Mark Twain in his description of his visit in 1867.
Nevertheless, the Arab propaganda machine gets away with publishing fantastic falsehoods, such as this one on the Palestinian Authoritys tourism website: With a history that envelops more than one million years, Palestine has played an important role in human civilization. The crucible of prehistoric cultures, it is where settled society, the alphabet, religion, and literature developed, and would become a meeting place for diverse cultures and ideas that shaped the world we know today.
The international community not only approves of these falsehoods, it happily pays for them.
Historian Abd Al-Ghanis declaration on PA TV was a historic, highly newsworthy admission that ought to have made the headlines everywhere, considering the importance the issue is given by political leaders, diplomats, the media and other establishment figures all over the world.
After all, if the Arabs themselves admit that the Palestinian people is an invented entity, should not the consequence be that the countless UN projects, billions of dollars in international aid, and the endless campaigns against Israel cease and be used for more noble purposes?
The answer is yes, but no one is paying attention.
We live in a post-factual world. Facts no longer have any currency, unlike feelings and ideological posturing. The truth has been reduced to a troublesome inconvenience and if it happens to stare you in the face, nothing could be easier than closing your eyes or simply looking away.
____________________
_Judith Bergman is a columnist and political analyst_
*[Find this article interesting? You can find more in depth articles on Israel and the Middle East @en.mida.org.il]*

----------


## Maanaam

> One of the biggest, most stubborn and costliest untruths of our time is the notion that the jihad waged by Arabs in the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Gaza against Jews in Israel is a national struggle of an indigenous people for independence.
> No matter the facts, the lie persists to the tune of billions of dollars in international aid and political prestige, which makes it increasingly difficult for anyone involved to admit that the whole thing is nothing more than a propaganda stunt.
> Unlike the fairy tale of ‘The Emperor’s New Clothes’, everyone pretends to be blind and deaf when it is pointed out that the emperor is naked. In fact, if the emperor himself were to stand up and yell, ‘I am naked folks, go home!’ the crowd would go on complimenting his non-existent garments.
> Last week the naked emperor did just that:
> “Before the Balfour Promise, when the Ottoman rule [1517-1917] ended, Palestine’s political borders as we know them today did not exist, and there was nothing called a Palestinian people with a political identity as we know today”, historian Abd Al-Ghani admitted on official PA TV on November 1.
> “Since Palestine’s lines of administrative division stretched from east to west and included Jordan and southern Lebanon, and like all peoples of the region [the Palestinians] were liberated from the Turkish rule and immediately moved to colonial rule, without forming a Palestinian people’s political identity.”
> In 1917, says this Arab historian on official PA TV, there was no such thing as a Palestinian people. This statement amounts to saying that the whole narrative of an ‘indigenous Palestinian people’ was made up at a later point in time.
> As Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad speaking on Al-Hekma TV said in March 2012: “Brothers, half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis. Who are the Palestinians? We have many families called Al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian. Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the North, from Aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians…”
> There is a reason, why the “Palestinian National Museum” is empty of historical artifacts.
> ...


please learn to simply highlight your quoted text and colour it white.

The writer starts with a fallacious argument; There never was a Palestinian people untill the Balfour Declaration. Probably not true, but lets go with it. So what? There were people and they lived there and they weren't Jews. Call them what you will. Call them roses (that by any other name...), it matters not. That a label was put on them in the early 20th century (not true but as I said, lets go with it) has no bearing on the fact of them being indigenous to the area.
The writer then goes on to imply that since there were no Palestinians, the entire area should be Israeli.
Utter tripe.

----------


## tomcat

> Judith Bergman is a columnist and political analyst


...is a _Jewish_ political analyst working for an _Israeli-sponsored_ propaganda website...only a Christian evangelical would cite such trash as "analysis"...

----------


## Maanaam

^ Ummmm....your point, in context? (Post # you're quoting would be good).

----------


## tomcat

> Originally Posted by RPETER65





> Ummmm....your point, in context? (Post # you're quoting would be good)


...I hope this is helpful...

----------


## Maanaam

No...Couldn't you even say the post number? It's not many keystrokes.

----------


## tomcat

...*sigh*...a pre-NYE whine...I suspect Lulu is on to something...

----------


## Maanaam

What's so hard, in the absence of nested quotes, to refer, once asked, to which post your cryptic post referred?
And references to Lulu's lies (which I know you don't actually believe but are ingenuously referring to in a queeny bitchy way) don't help the current discussion.

----------


## Neverna

Hi Maanaam
That quote comes from the bottom of the article posted by RPETER65 in posts number 599 and 600. It is also in your post (601) where you quoted RPETER65. It's not really a quote of your words but it is contained in one of your posts. 

Your post link below.

https://teakdoor.com/world-news/18131...ml#post3687599

----------


## RPETER65

> ^ Ummmm....your point, in context? (Post # you're quoting would be good).



What's your point?

----------


## Maanaam

^^ Thanks Neverna....now I can, without reading a number of back pages, try to decipher what Tom's point in quoting me was.
Thank you. 
Pity he couldn't have just quoted the post number when asked, instead of resorting to nasty ingenuous Lulu inferences.
But, bitchy queens will be bitchy queens. His choice of the frame of this discussion.

^Oh dear, this is getting too complicated. Nested quotes required. Get with the play Mr Peters.

----------


## Neverna

The double arrows beside the quoted name indicates the location of the original quote. Clik on it to go to that quote.

----------


## Maanaam

Ooooo, I love learning new things. I didn't know that. Thanks again.

----------


## Maanaam

> ...is a _Jewish_ political analyst working for an _Israeli-sponsored_ propaganda website...only a Christian evangelical would cite such trash as "analysis"...


Gotcha, finaly. So you agree with me in essence.
Thanks.  :Smile: 
So much easier to have pointed to where you were quoting me than resorting to the Lulu BS.

----------


## stroller

> Bad point, very bad point.
> He forgot to add symbolic targets like mosques, churches, bus stations, markets, restaurants, female pedestrians, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> Please forgive me if I left too many out.


All these are 'symbolic' of the US's influence in Israel, on a par with "Donald Trump Station"?

--- idiot!

----------


## HermantheGerman

I understand your sympathy as a Harrz IV recipient with these people, but lets be real....
since when do your friends need any 'symbolic' targets to spread terror ? 

   "... We can forgive the Arabs for killing  our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their  children.... We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their  children more than they hate us."

_
Golda Meir, former Israeli Prime Minister, 1972


I'm not going to say: "Think about it", because your abused/ narcotized brain can not comprehend anymore.
_

----------


## Maanaam

> We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children


A disgustingly sickening bit of dramatic victim blaming. My gawd! I want to puke. And ironically, she's actually trying to be the victim here (as per usual with the Zionists).
Here, Israel is the victim of "being forced to kill" Arab children. Puke.




> We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."


Chicken and egg...why is Israel hated? Maybe because Israel kills children? (And steals land, water, resources, and blockades areas making life extremely difficult for the Palestinians).

----------


## stroller

^^
You haven't addressed my question.
I wonder if you even understood it or whether your hate blinds you too much, AshkeNazi.  :Confused:

----------


## HermantheGerman

*Seal from First Temple Period found at Kotel supports biblical accounts*


*The new find supports the biblical rendering of the existence of a governor of Jerusalem 2,700 years ago, says archeologist.*


             A rare, well-preserved piece of clay dating to the First  Temple period with the Hebrew inscription governor of the city was  recently discovered during excavations by the Israel Antiquities  Authority in the Western Wall Plaza in Jerusalem.

The Bible  mentions two governors of Jerusalem, and this finding thus reveals that  such a position was actually held by someone in the city some 2,700  years ago, said Dr. Shlomit Weksler-Bdolah, excavator of the site on  behalf of the IAA.


  The relic, dating from the 6th to 7th centuries BCE, was  unearthed during a joint dig with the Western Wall Heritage Foundation  in the northwestern section of the Western Wall Plaza.

This  extraordinary find is a lump of clay, stamped and pre-fired,  Weksler-Bdolah said on Monday. It measures 13 mm. x 15 mm. and is 2 mm.  to 3 mm. thick. The upper part of the sealing depicts two figures  facing each other, and the lower part holds an inscription in ancient  Hebrew script.
Weksler-Bdolah said she believes that the sealing had been attached to  an important shipment and served as some sort of logo, or tiny souvenir,  which was sent on behalf of the governor of the city.
It is likely that one of the buildings in our excavation was the  destination of this transport sent by the city governor, she said.

The  finding of the sealing with this high-rank title  in addition to the  large assemblage of actual seals found in the building in the past   supports the assumption that this area, located on the western slopes of  the western hill of ancient Jerusalem, some 100 meters west of the  Temple Mount, was inhabited by highly ranked officials during the First  Temple period.

Weksler-Bdolah added that this is the first time such a sealing has been found in an authorized excavation.

Prof.  Tallay Ornan of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Prof. Benjamin  Sass of Tel Aviv University released a brief analysis after studying the  sealing.

Above a double line are two standing men facing each  other in a mirror-like manner, they wrote. Their heads are depicted as  large dots, lacking any details. The hands facing outward are dropped  down, and the hands facing inward are raised.

Each of the  figures is wearing a striped, knee-length garment. In the register  beneath the double line is an inscription in ancient Hebrew, with no  spacing between the words and no definite article. It denotes belonging  to the governor of the city.

The researchers added that the  title governor of the city is known from the Bible and from  extra-biblical documents, referring to an official appointed by the  king.

Governors of Jerusalem are mentioned twice in the Bible:  In 2 Kings, Joshua is the governor of the city in the days of Hezekiah,  and in 2 Chronicles, Maaseiah is the governor of the city in the days of  Josiah, they noted.

Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat said the find serves as a strong testament to the three millennia of Jewish presence in the capital.

This  shows that already 2,700 years ago, Jerusalem, the capital of Israel,  was a strong and central city, he said. Jerusalem is one of the most  ancient capitals of the world, continually populated by the Jewish  people for more than 3,000 years.

Barkat continued, Today, we  have the privilege to encounter another one of the long chain of persons  and leaders that built and developed the city. We are grateful to be  living in a city with such a magnificent past, and are obligated to  ensure its strength for generations to come, as we do daily.

The sealing was presented to Barkat during his visit to Davidsons Center near the Western Wall last week.

After the completion of scientific research, the sealing will be displayed in a temporary exhibit in the mayors office.         




Seal from First Temple Period found at Kotel supports biblical accounts - Israel News - Jerusalem Post

----------


## Maanaam

^ :smiley laughing: 
I don't think anybody disputes that there was a Jewish presence in Jerusalem 3000 years ago.
Modern Israel was created 75 years ago. It has no bearing on what was 3000 years ago.
For some reason, the Isreali Jews illogically make the leap that therefore Europeans of (often) questionable heritage, who have had no family in Israel for millenia, if ever, have a right to oust the native Arabs that have actually lived there for millenia.

As I said to Fluke, following Zionist logic, my ancient ancestors came from Taiwan and from Scotland....do I have a right to claim a part of Scotland or Taiwan and kick the "newcomer" Han Chinese out or the "newcomer" Celts out? Of course I don't!
It's a preposterous idea.
Your article does nothing for the debate.

----------


## raycarey

whether or not people agree with trump's decision, i think most people realize that trump has no real understanding of this complex situation.  he did what he did because he felt like it.

but that essentially sums up trump....he doesn't understand policy and he doesn't care that he doesn't understand policy.

----------


## Maanaam

> whether or not people agree with trump's decision, i think most people realize that trump has no real understanding of this complex situation.  he did what he did because he felt like it.
> 
> but that essentially sums up trump....he doesn't understand policy and he doesn't care that he doesn't understand policy.


I'll correct you on one point: He did it because he's been told he should by Bibi and by Kushner. But yes, he's got no idea.

----------


## Neverna

> trump....he doesn't understand policy and he doesn't care that he doesn't understand policy.


Yes. Exactly that.

----------


## Neverna

> He did it because he's been told he should by Bibi and by Kushner.


And by a donor of 50 million or so dollars?

----------


## Maanaam

Probably. Do you have someone in mind?

----------


## Neverna

Sheldon Adelson.

----------


## tomcat

> And by a doner of 50 million or so dollars?


...so, a suspiciously wealthy kebab enters the picture...

----------


## Neverna

^ Must have oriental heritage. 


* Good catch. Now corrected.

----------


## tomcat

... :Smile: ....

----------


## Norton

> people realize that trump has no real understanding of this complex


Nor understanding of the most simple things. He's a born rich blowhard fool.

----------


## tomcat

> He's a born rich blowhard fool


...transparently so, yet folks voted for him...

----------


## Norton

Such are the pitfalls of democracy in the land of a gullible electorate.  :Smile:

----------


## Maanaam

> ...transparently so, yet folks voted for him...


No non-Americans did. Take that as you will.  :Smile: 

^ To be fair, most electorates are gullible.

----------


## Latindancer



----------


## Maanaam

^ Stark difference.
Current president's reading is confined to the McDonalds menu.

----------


## Neverna

Trump's latest trick is to decide what can or can't on negotiated between Israel and the Palestinians. He's taken Jerusalem off the negotiating table! What an arrogant clown! 







It's not only Pakistan that we pay billions of dollars to for nothing, but also many other countries, and others. As an example, we pay the Palestinians HUNDRED OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year and get no appreciation or respect. They dont even want to negotiate a long overdue...

...peace treaty with Israel. We have taken Jerusalem, the toughest part of the negotiation, off the table, but Israel, for that, would have had to pay more. But with the Palestinians no longer willing to talk peace, why should we make any of these massive future payments to them?

----------


## Maanaam

> What an arrogant clown!


and ignorant.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> As an example, we pay the Palestinians HUNDRED OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year and get no appreciation or respect. They don’t even want to negotiate a long overdue...
> 
> ...peace treaty with Israel. We have taken Jerusalem, the toughest part of the negotiation, off the table, but Israel, for that, would have had to pay more. But with the Palestinians no longer willing to talk peace, why should we make any of these massive future payments to them?


God, that's terrible. You mean Palestinians won't have enough money to buy school books that teaches them hate and violence ?
That is terrible ! Imagine the rest of the world would know how Palis really feel about Christians. They would get no money at all.
We have to stop spreading this fake news  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Donald has done it again !

Violent Images

– The new textbooks contain graphic descriptions of the Nakba. A fifth-grade 
linguistics textbook describes leaving behind "body parts" of friends and neighbors in 1948. 
Violence in Science Instruction
– More than in the past, violence is inserted into science 
textbooks as everyday examples of scientific principles. A science textbook teaches Newtonian 
gravity through the image of a boy with a slingshot targeting soldiers, to explain power, mass, 
and tensile strength. An eleventh-grade physics textbook teaches circular motion through the use 
of a slingshot in another clash with IDF soldiers. A science exercise is entitled: "The Stones [sic] 
Uprising and Elastic Potential Energy." 

Christians are tolerated through the dhimmi covenant by which women and Christians are second-class subjects, yet partners in jihad and martyrdom. While jihad war is presented as an unending process, the curriculum subscribes to the Sharia concept entertained by the Muslim 
Brotherhood, of Islamic penetration into the Western World via proselytizing with no immediate need for a jihad war. However, such strategy is not applied to Israel which remains the focus of military jihad. 

http://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/...rades-5-11.pdf

----------


## Neverna

> God, that's terrible. You mean Palestinians won't have enough money to buy school books that teaches them hate and violence ?
> That is terrible ! Imagine the rest of the world would know how Palis really feel about Christians. They would get no money at all.
> We have to stop spreading this fake news 
> Donald has done it again !
> 
> Violent Images
> 
> – The new textbooks contain graphic descriptions of the Nakba. A fifth-grade 
> linguistics textbook describes leaving behind "body parts" of friends and neighbors in 1948. 
> ...


Relating new knowledge with old and a multi-disciplinary approach; connecting history with science and linguistics. Good teaching methodology.  :tumbs:

----------


## HermantheGerman

Guess that explains why EVERY Muslim country is a powder keg.  ::chitown::

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ^
> 
> As I said to Fluke, following Zionist logic, my ancient ancestors came from Taiwan and from Scotland....do I have a right to claim a part of Scotland or Taiwan and kick the "newcomer" Han Chinese out or the "newcomer" Celts out? Of course I don't!
> It's a preposterous idea.


Well, Taiwan belongs to China !
And if the Chinese start to develop a taste for wearing skirts, Scotland might very soon too.

----------


## SKkin

> we pay Israel BILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year and get no appreciation or respect.


Fixed that for the Donald...

----------


## Topper

What does Israel do for us again, I seem to forget....

----------


## Maanaam

^ Runs the banks. A very important part of capitalism.

----------


## Klondyke

> ^ Runs the banks. A very important part of capitalism.


^and the Hollywood either...

----------


## tomcat

> and the Hollywood either


...I assume you mean_ ether_...



> What does Israel do for us again,


...cow the Arabs into submission, test our weapons, export Jaffa cakes (whatever they are)...

----------


## SKkin

> test our weapons


not to mention rebrand and then resell them...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...l-to-Iran.html

https://www.military.com/defensetech...ology-to-china

----------


## Klondyke

> 


Not only the billions but also the drones bombing the weddings cost something - and no appreciation...

----------


## SKkin

> and then resell them...


My bad...that should have been sell them. You can't resell something you've been given.

----------


## tomcat

> You can't resell something you've been given


...true, but you _can_ regift...

----------


## stroller

> export Jaffa cakes


Don't forget Avocados!

----------


## Maanaam

And Soda Stream.
Luckily Jaffa cakes are English, otherwise, in the spirit of BDS, I'd not be able to buy them.

----------


## sabang

Here's a real Jew- an Orthodox rabbi, not a right wing political Zionist- telling it like it is in reaction to the Jerusalem announcement. Goodonya Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro, and a timely reminder that there are many good Jews left in this world. Shame the bulk of the Knesset is not among them.

----------


## Maanaam

^ That's a very good speech made by the rabbi. Unfortunately the Zionists will label him a "self-hating Jew" and do their best to villify his words.

Interesting background pic near the end of a newspaper front page headline "State of Israel is Born"....the name of that newspaper; The Palestine Post. Who says Palestine didn't exist before modern Israel?

----------


## sabang

Same sort of eejuts who say there's no such thing as a Palestinian.

----------


## SKkin

Speaking of Israel, seems diversity, inclusiveness and tolerance don't apply to the self-chosen's country. They want rid of immigrants not like them.

*Israel offers to pay African migrants to leave, threatens jail*
Israel offers to pay African migrants to leave, threatens ...




> Netanyahu has called the migrants'  presence a threat to Israel's social fabric and Jewish character, and  one government minister has referred to them as "a cancer".


Do what we say, not what we do...

Anywhere else that would do this and the usual suspects are crying racism, xenophobia, etc., etc..

----------


## Klondyke

There have been always a strong presence of foreign workers in Israel, including young people from Thailand - with support of Thai govt.

----------


## SKkin

^So why the problem with African migrants?

----------


## sabang

Why, indeed. Actually, a cursory look at internal Israeli sources will soon enough show you that modern Israel has a Major problem with racism- and I am not just talking about hate-filled Yeshiva students spitting on Christian and Islamic priests in Jerusalem's Old City, which is a daily occurrence. For those of you that wish to formalize and officialise this (such as trump), Shame on you. Speaking as an Atheist, Jerusalem is a Holy City to several religions and their various sects, and has been for many centuries. You officialise this bigotry, and where will it lead us next?

----------


## pseudolus

> where will it lead us next?


exactly where it is planned to lead us.... 4 months of israel bombing the shit out of the civilians in Gaza.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> ^ That's a very good speech made by the rabbi. Unfortunately the Zionists will label him a "self-hating Jew" and do their best to villify his words.


Now you can agree or disagree with this Rabbi. One thing I can tell you already. There is something in his eyes. Can you see it ?
It's that something you will never SEE or HEAR from a Imam.

You are of course welcome to proof me wrong.

----------


## HermantheGerman

Pseudolus, care to take a shot? Any Imam you would like to point out ?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Waiting Sweetie!

----------


## jabir

> Speaking of Israel, seems diversity, inclusiveness and tolerance don't apply to the self-chosen's country. They want rid of immigrants not like them.
> 
> *Israel offers to pay African migrants to leave, threatens jail*
> Israel offers to pay African migrants to leave, threatens ...
> 
> 
> 
> Do what we say, not what we do...
> 
> Anywhere else that would do this and the usual suspects are crying racism, xenophobia, etc., etc..


Didn't know Israel has a 'migrant' problem, it's a closed country that nobody can enter without permission.

----------


## Maanaam

> Now you can agree or disagree with this Rabbi. One thing I can tell you already. There is something in his eyes. Can you see it ?
> It's that something you will never SEE or HEAR from a Imam.
> 
> You are of course welcome to proof me wrong.


I can't prove you wrong on something that you see. I can't say you don't see it, just as you can't say I don't see something in an imam's eyes. Absurd.

I suppose that I could prove to you that there are imams with intelligence and integrity in their eyes (if that's what you're talking about), but you are so adamantly bigoted that you'd be blind to it.
Seeing something in a person's eyes is very subjective.

----------


## tomcat

> So why the problem with African migrants?


...a quick review of the Falasha "Jews" of Ethiopia may help: they were "supposedly" rescued from their ancestral home in northwestern Ethiopia by the Israelis after threats against them by the Ethiopian government of the day. Rumor has it that the Israelis paid huge bribes for permission to land their aircraft at a local airstrip and board these rather dark-skinned "Jews". Once in Israel, many of the Falashas took jobs the Ashkenazim and Sephardim Jews didn't want: street cleaners, garbage collectors, farm workers, etc. Later migrants are most likely dark-skinned non-"Jewish" Africans who are economic refugees...indeed, some may even be Muslims! I visited the miserable Falasha villages before they were emptied and saw signs (in English, oddly) pointing out the village synagogues. Everything else in the environment looked exactly like every other Ethiopian village I had visited in my extensive travels around the country. The inhabitants I met in the local market spoke in Amharic and not any variant of Hebrew (afaik).

----------


## Maanaam

> The inhabitants I met in the local market spoke in Amharic and not any variant of Hebrew (afaik).


 Amharic is a semitic language.
Just saying.

----------


## tomcat

...^true, but not a variant of Hebrew...the Falasha socio-cultural connection to Israel is based on ancient wives' tales of lost tribes, etc...which makes one wonder why a country with supposedly racist tendencies would import a few thousand darkies...

----------


## sabang

*



Any Imam you would like to point out ?


Some words of wisdom from Imam Ash-Shafi'ee (rahimahumAllah)*February 18, 2011 at 5:45am
"Whoever slanders to you about others, will slander about you. And whoever reports to you, will soon report about you."

"Knowledge is that which benefits, not that which is memorized." 

"I wish that people learnt this knowledge from me without ascribing one letter of it to me."

"Whoever wishes that Allah will illuminate him, let him leave that which doesn’t concern him."

AND ESPECIALLY FOR YOU HERMAN-

"When the foolish one speaks, do not reply to him, for better than a response (to him) is silence, and if you speak to him you have aided him, and if you left him (with no reply) in extreme sadness he dies."

"The foolish one addresses me with words of disgrace, but I hate to respond to him in a similar manner. The more ignorant he proves, the more patient I become. Just like the incense; the more it's burnt, the more it releases its fragrance."

https://www.facebook.com/notes/islam...02941306387197

----------


## Maanaam

> makes one wonder why a country with supposedly racist tendencies would import a few thousand darkies


Israel always encourages Jews to "return". Have to make the Jewish state overwhelmingly Jewish and out-number the Arabs. Bonus here was they got street sweepers in the arrangement.

----------


## jabir

> ...a quick review of the Falasha "Jews" of Ethiopia may help: they were "supposedly" rescued from their ancestral home in northwestern Ethiopia by the Israelis after threats against them by the Ethiopian government of the day. Rumor has it that the Israelis paid huge bribes for permission to land their aircraft at a local airstrip and board these rather dark-skinned "Jews". Once in Israel, many of the Falashas took jobs the Ashkenazim and Sephardim Jews didn't want: street cleaners, garbage collectors, farm workers, etc. Later migrants are most likely dark-skinned non-"Jewish" Africans who are economic refugees...indeed, some may even be Muslims! I visited the miserable Falasha villages before they were emptied and saw signs (in English, oddly) pointing out the village synagogues. Everything else in the environment looked exactly like every other Ethiopian village I had visited in my extensive travels around the country. The inhabitants I met in the local market spoke in Amharic and not any variant of Hebrew (afaik).


Ah yes, I think they claim to be the original Jews.

----------


## tomcat

> I think they claim to be the original Jews


...I believe they would have claimed _anything_ to be delivered from abject poverty in a country that regarded them as outsiders...a mass Judaic conversion of the Rohingyas would probably have opened opportunities on a grapefruit kibbutz...

----------


## Maanaam

> a mass Judaic conversion of the Rohingyas would probably have opened opportunities on a grapefruit kibbutz...


Now you're talking. Not a bad idea for the poor people. Sadly, they've been indoctrinated to believe they can not renounce their current faith.
These religions (especially the Abrahamic ones) are so fckun devious, so bloody intent on keeping their flock.

----------


## SKkin

> ...a quick review of the Falasha "Jews" of Ethiopia may help: they were "supposedly" rescued from their ancestral home in northwestern Ethiopia by the Israelis after threats against them by the Ethiopian government of the day. Rumor has it that the Israelis paid huge bribes for permission to land their aircraft at a local airstrip and board these rather dark-skinned "Jews". Once in Israel, many of the Falashas took jobs the Ashkenazim and Sephardim Jews didn't want: street cleaners, garbage collectors, farm workers, etc. Later migrants are most likely dark-skinned non-"Jewish" Africans who are economic refugees...





> which makes one wonder why a country with supposedly racist tendencies would import a few thousand darkies...


So they paid to import them and now they want to pay to deport them. And if they don't go willingly they'll jail them.

WTF?  :Confused: 

So how did the chocolate Jews wear out their welcome I wonder....

----------


## Maanaam

> So they paid to import them and now they want to pay to deport them. And if they don't go willingly they'll jail them.
> 
> WTF? 
> 
> So how did the chocolate Jews wear out their welcome I wonder....


I don't think I've seen where it says the Africans they want to pay to leave are the Jewish Africans. It's much more likely that they are African Christians. Israel has an open door policy to all Jews worldwide in it's efforts to totally overwhelm Arab population numbers.

----------


## SKkin

> I don't think I've seen where it says the Africans they want to pay to leave are the Jewish Africans.


The pic in my link above led me to think that. see here: Israel offers to pay African migrants to leave, threatens ...

Won't let me copy the img location so I can post the pic.

edit: but the article doesn't mention whether they are or not...

----------


## Maanaam

^ Yeah I see the pic. Stock photo I'd say.
But this, seems to explain it, almost definitely not Jews: "Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in public remarks at a cabinet meeting on the payment programme, said a barrier Israel completed in 2013 along its border with Egypt had effectively cut off a stream of "illegal infiltrators" from Africa after some 60,000 crossed the desert frontier.
The vast majority came from Eritrea and Sudan and many said they fled war and persecution as well as economic hardship, but Israel treats them as economic migrants."

Eritrea and Sudan...Muslims, then.
No wonder Israel will pay to get rid of them.

----------


## SKkin

^Yeah I think you're right.

Still it seems to me it's double standards regarding illegal immigration. One standard for Israel the "Jewish country" and another standard for everyone else.

----------


## pseudolus

> Pseudolus, care to take a shot? Any Imam you would like to point out ? 
> 
> Waiting Sweetie!



Actually as usual with you daft pro israel fools, I have no idea what you want? Any Imam what? Who does / says what? 

Like this guy who says raping women is fine to keep up morale? And women have no place in the army? Like this?

----------


## sabang

> Eritrea


Eritrea is 63% Christian actually. Neighbouring Somalia is overwhelmingly Muslim, but they don't seem to want to go to Israel, or so the figures tell us. They love Australia though- I wonder why?

----------


## Topper

> ^So why the problem with African migrants?


Most of them have been Luigied?

----------


## wasabi

> ^ Yeah I see the pic. Stock photo I'd say.
> But this, seems to explain it, almost definitely not Jews: "Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in public remarks at a cabinet meeting on the payment programme, said a barrier Israel completed in 2013 along its border with Egypt had effectively cut off a stream of "illegal infiltrators" from Africa after some 60,000 crossed the desert frontier.
> The vast majority came from Eritrea and Sudan and many said they fled war and persecution as well as economic hardship, but Israel treats them as economic migrants."
> 
> Eritrea and Sudan...Muslims, then.
> No wonder Israel will pay to get rid of them.


 watched an RT documentary on this, only RT has the guts to film such subjects.

----------


## Topper

> only RT has the guts to film such subjects.


Luigi has pictures, too....  :Smile:

----------


## tomcat

> watched an RT documentary


... :rofl: ...

----------


## sabang

RT do some good documentary's actually. And they have every right to make them, no less than we have every right to watch them- or not.

----------


## pseudolus

> What does Israel do for us again, I seem to forget....


Select each and every one of your politicians, and sets your foreign policy? Don't sign the pledge, you're out. Don't follow your orders, you're out.

----------


## stroller

Careful what you post, pseudo, this board is controlled by mossad.  :Very Happy:

----------


## pseudolus

nah stroller, but modded by murkin flag waving fools who luuuurrrvvvveee israel

----------


## Klondyke

> Originally Posted by *wasabi* 
> _watched an RT documentary_





> ......


Some people like to know what is happening in the world.  So they know only what their dear truth-speaking MSM tell them. 
What they do not tell him, it does not exist, does it?

----------


## tomcat

> Some people like to know what is happening in the world.


...agree...and those people generally avoid state-owned propaganda channels...

----------


## sabang

Such as the BBC? An excellent documentary maker- probably world no1. I have to say ABC (oz) is pretty good too, for it's relatively miniscule size.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ...agree...and those people generally avoid state-owned propaganda channels...


That seems to escape a lot of idiots, er I mean people.

----------


## Klondyke

> ...agree...and those people generally avoid state-owned propaganda channels...


such as the MSM surely are not run by (but by the deep state)...

----------


## tomcat

...the deep state knows who you are, Klondyke: soon, you'll be drugged into submission and taught proper English...resistance is futile...

----------


## SKkin

> you'll be drugged into submission and taught proper English


At the "Cat's Eye?"




> One such center, known by the CIA code-named "Cat's Eye," was reportedly in Thailand.


https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...te-on-its-soil

----------


## tomcat

> At the "Cat's Eye?"


...there are worse "classrooms"...

----------


## pseudolus

> ...agree...and those people generally avoid state-owned propaganda channels...



BBC certainly fits into this category. Then you have all the US based networks who purely about propaganda. Difference is, dozy, people who watch RT know it is Russian propaganda to be taken with a large pinch of salt. Fools like you and that harryturd slurp up all your mainstream propaganda believing it to be unbiased TROOOOOOOF. 



Remember Nayirah?   ::chitown::

----------


## SKkin

^Yup...throwing babies from incubators.

From my notes:

When contemplating war, beware of babies in incubators
https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p25s02-cogn.html

----------


## Maanaam

> ^Yup...throwing babies from incubators.
> 
> From my notes:
> 
> When contemplating war, beware of babies in incubators
> https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p25s02-cogn.html


Yeah.
I think the first babies in incubators stories were of Nazis and Jewish babies.

----------


## pseudolus

No no - CNN said it was true, so it must have been true.

----------


## Klondyke

> No no - CNN said it was true, so it must have been true.


And Tomcat believes them, because they are not state run...

----------


## tomcat

> And Tomcat believes them


...hearsay: inadmissible, I'm afraid...

----------


## pseudolus

Why are you afraid? Is it because of the constant TERROR news on CNN and the like? In case you are wondering... somewhere between elevated and high. Just trying to find an israel who speaks fluent Farsi and will to go to jail.

----------


## sabang

> Just trying to find an israel who speaks fluent Farsi and will to go to jail.


Strange innit, considering the Jewish population in Iran is the highest in the ME outside of Israel, and they have a guaranteed seat in Parliament. As does the Christian & Zoroastrian population.

----------


## pseudolus

Indeed. Remember reading this a couple of years ago? 
Iran's Jews on life inside Israel's 'enemy state': 'We feel secure and happy' | The Independent




> *Iran's Jews on life inside Israel's 'enemy state': 'We feel secure and happy'*
> 
> 
> Despite its often turbulent dealings with Israel, Iran has one of the world's largest and longest-established Jewish communities - and it's growing.
> 
> "Benjamin Netanyahu and the anti-Semites need each other: they supply each other with what they need  intolerance and hatred." This is the vehemently held view of Ciamak Morsadegh, a newly elected Iranian parliamentarian. "It is an unspoken alliance which suits them, but it causes great harm to the rest of us." The MP is Jewish, representing the largest Jewish community in the Middle East outside Israel, one that is growing in size while those in almost all other Muslim countries in the region have shrunk severely or disappeared altogether  largely due to persecution.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Strange innit, considering the Jewish population in Iran is the highest in the ME outside of Israel, and they have a guaranteed seat in Parliament. As does the Christian & Zoroastrian population.



Sabang, I recommend you watch this. I hope you find the time to do so.

Victims of persecution, exiled and denied their rights, is the Christian  community in the Middle East facing extinction? A striking panorama  across Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Egypt and Lebanon.

https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/060824...e-middle-east/

----------


## pseudolus

> Sabang, I recommend you watch this. I hope you find the time to do so.
> 
> Victims of persecution, exiled and denied their rights, is the Christian  community in the Middle East facing extinction? A striking panorama  across Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Egypt and Lebanon.



Did you know in Gaza there is a building which one half is a Christian Church, and the other a Mosque? israeli cvnts blew the church up, mid service, killing loads, and the mosqua partiioned off half its area and told the church to move in, which they did.

Syria, Christian and muslims lived happily with no problem at all until the western backed criminals moved in - you know, the ones who get hospital treatment in israeli hospital tents. 

In fact, Dr Mengele, for a very long time Christians, Muslims and jews lived peacefully together. Why is it that israel doesn't allow this in the land they stole and called israel?

----------


## Maanaam

> Strange innit, considering the Jewish population in Iran is the highest in the ME outside of Israel, and they have a guaranteed seat in Parliament. As does the Christian & Zoroastrian population.


And Iran took in Jewish refugees from 1939 (invasion of Poland) through 1942.
 In total, over 116,000 refugees were relocated to Iran. Approximately 5,000–6,000 of the Polish refugees were Jewish.
Despite these difficulties, Iranians openly received the Polish refugees, and the Iranian government facilitated their entry to the country and supplied them with provisions. Polish schools, cultural and educational organizations, shops, bakeries, businesses, and press were established to make the Poles feel more at home.

Then after the war, Iran took in thousands more.

----------


## tomcat

> Then after the war, Iran took in thousands more


...one such refugee settled permanently in Isfahan and eventually became my landlord...

----------


## HermantheGerman

> In fact, Dr Mengele, for a very long time Christians, Muslims and jews lived peacefully together. Why is it that israel doesn't allow this in the land they stole and called israel?


Guess a lot of people are immune against good information, and keep holding on to old myths like an old backward Mullah.


https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/060824...e-middle-east/

----------


## pseudolus

> Guess a lot of people are immune against good information, and keep holding on to old myths like an old backward Mullah.
> 
> 
> https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/060824...e-middle-east/


Heh, Goebbels, just because you keep pumping up some French Zionist bullshit program, doesn't make it true. Christians in israel have no rights same as moooooslims, and are at the forefront of persecution by the same extremists funded by israels bezzas, the Saud family, and who get treated in israel hospitals before being sent back to murder and rape christians again.

----------


## Cujo

Dozens killed by Israeli troops at opening of U.S. embassy in Jerusalem.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...m-live-updates

----------


## OhOh

^And 1,000 shot and injured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIaz3DhCJAw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_co...&v=Cr_Qiu91INk

*Israel Kills 41, Wounds 1,700 Gazans In "Terrible Massacre" As US Opens Jerusalem Embassy*


*Update:* In what is now the most deadly day since the  beginning of Hamas's six-week-long "March for Return" demonstrations  back in March, The Palestinian Health Ministry said the death toll from  Monday morning's "terrible massacre" in Gaza has risen to 41 - with more  than 1,700 wounded.

According to RT,  which translated the announcement, the wounded include 74 children and  23 women, while a 12-year-old and 14-year-old were counted among the  dead.

They also issued a revised estimate of 35,000 for the number of protesters who gathered along 10 areas at the Gaza border fence.
  Live bullets caused most of the injuries, while some 320 people were  hit with teargas. The health ministry said Israel was deliberately  targeting emergency health services and journalists, who were clearly  marked.
  Meanwhile, the IDF said fighter planes targeted Hamas outposts near  the village of Jabalya after Israeli soldiers said they were fired on in  the area.


The Israeli military continued its violent repression of Palestinian  protesters on Monday when soldiers once again gunned down unarmed  demonstrators whom it claimed were trying to penetrate the border fence  separating Israel from the Gaza Strip.
  According to Italian newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore,  Israeli soldiers said they were "provoked into violence" when small  groups of Palestinians began throwing stones at IDF soldiers from the  other side of the border fence. The soldiers responded by gunning down  demonstrators; *by the time the demonstrations had quieted down, at least 28 Palestinians had been killed, and another 600 had been wounded, according to the* *Hamas-controlled Health Ministry.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-14/idf-kills-16-injures-600-gaza-us-celebrates-opening-jerusalem-embassy




I'm sure the Nazi soldiers at their concentration camps were just following orders fmom their commanders simiarly.*

----------


## tomcat

...I hope the Christians are rapturous...

----------


## Cujo

Whatever happened to rubber bullets?

----------


## Neo

> Whatever happened to rubber bullets?





> Palestinians hurled stones and incendiary devices while the Israeli military used snipers
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44104599


self defense  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## buriramboy

Israel's biggest success has been without doubt to totally dehumanize Palestinians so that when they murder them at will no one seems to bat an eyelid, same as if swatting flies. Imagine the outcry and sanctions or maybe even a bombing if Saddam, Gadafi or Assad had murdered 41 people and shot a 1000 more in a couple of hours.

----------


## HermantheGerman

Outcry ????!!!!!  There is NO OUTCRY ! Guess why ?
Maybe the World is tired of Hamas and the so called freedom fighters. 
Palestinians have been screwed up the ass by Israel...so what. These Whackos would have done the same thing, even worse. Read the news lately ? Remember bombing churches (if they have any) is their hobby. And they don't even need a reason to do it.
These corrupt muslim Arabs screw themselves better then any jew or yankee can do in a thousand years. 




* Go pity the Bornean Orangutan ! _These monkeys_ realy need and deserve your support.

----------


## Maanaam

> self defense


Yep, IDF defending themselves. That's why teargas is dropped from drones....the protesters are so far away that the normal teargas cannons can't reach them.

Those Palestinians should take up cricket if their throwing arms are so good.

----------


## Maanaam

> Whatever happened to rubber bullets?


Not lethal enough for the IDF.
Simple fact. Unarmed flag-wavers of Palestinian birth need to be killed outright from the Jewish POV. They're a hindrance to river-to-the-sea Israeli aspirations.

----------


## OhOh

> Outcry ????!!!!! There is NO OUTCRY !


Well the world is waking up to your slaughter of the innocents, some condemnation so far:

_"Russia, France, and the UK have expressed consternation over the  legality of the US Embassy moving to Jerusalem, and Israel’s  heavy-handed response to the clashes it has provoked, which have  reportedly caused over 50 deaths.      
_
_1. “We have publicly criticized the move multiple times,” said Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.  “International resolutions declare that the status of Jerusalem – one  of the most important issues of the entire peace process – must be  resolved in direct negotiations between Israel and Palestine.”

_
_2. French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian also said that Donald Trump’s decision, made last December, “violated international law,” but expressed particular alarm at IDF tactics.
_
_“France calls on all actors to show responsibility to prevent a new escalation,” Le Drian said in a statement. “France  again calls on the Israeli authorities to exercise discernment and  restraint in the use of force that must be strictly proportionate.”


_
_3. The  UK has reaffirmed its commitment to keeping its embassy in Tel Aviv and  said it was worried that the unilateral move could derail an already  dormant peace process.
_
_“We are concerned by the reports of  violence and loss of life in Gaza. We urge calm and restraint to avoid  actions destructive to peace efforts,” said a statement from a spokesman for Prime Minister Theresa May. “The UK remains firmly committed to a two-state solution with Jerusalem as a shared capital.”


_
_4-26. The  Arab League, which comprises 22 Muslim states, said that it would  schedule an extraordinary meeting over Monday’s events, calling the dead  Palestinians “martyrs” and Israel’s actions “immoral.”

27. While Turkish officials on Monday condemned Israel's mass slaughter  of Palestinian resident, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan offered  perhaps his most scathing criticism yet, according to the Anadolu News Agency.

_
_In a scathing declaration, Erdogan blasted Israel's killings as tantamount to genocide.
_
_He also declared that Israel is a "terrorist state" following the murder of 55 Palestinians, while also describing the killings as a "humanitarian tragedy."
_
_"What Israel is doing is genocide," he said. "We  will continue to stand with the Palestinian people with determination.  "We will not allow today to be the day the Muslim world loses  Jerusalem..."
__After blasting the US for moving its embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem  on Monday - a decision that many foreign leaders have said will only  further inflame tensions between Palestinians and Israelis - Erdogan,  who is visiting the UK this week, also declared a three-day period of  national mourning in solidarity with the captive residents of that Gaza  Strip, who were fired on en masse during Monday's demonstration, which  led to more than 55 being killed at last count. Meanwhile, nearly 2,000 had been wounded.

_
_Turkey also called for an emergency meeting of the Organization of  Islamic Cooperation to be held on Friday, according to Deputy Prime  Minister Bekir Bozdag."

_ameristan is silent, what does that tell you. The BB has exceeded his twat limit, at best. At worst ameristani people from the highest to the lowest station in society are joining the throat slitter in chief.

----------


## OhOh

*Like ‘Nazis who died in WWII’: Israeli minister dismisses victims of Gaza protests     * _          Israeli Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan appeared to liken  Palestinians killed in ongoing border protests to Nazi casualties in  World War II when he tweeted about the death toll in Gaza.      
_
_Erdan said the number of Palestinians killed at Monday’s protest  “doesn't indicate anything – just as the number of Nazis who died in  the world war doesn't make Nazism something you can explain or  understand.”

 Erdan placed the blame for the deaths solely on Hamas, which is in power in Gaza. “All  responsibility for the bloodshed lies with the leaders of Hamas, who,  with Nazi anger, endlessly shed blood to erase from people’s memories  their own failures in the management of the Gaza Strip. Here it is, the  truth.” he said.

_
_Erdan said that Israel “does not wish to escalate and doesn’t want the death of residents of the Gaza Strip.” He said that the people who do want this are “solely the leadership of the Hamas terrorist organization, which uses a cynical and malicious use of bloodshed.”


_
_His  comments echo talking points of other Israeli politicians and army  spokespeople who have made efforts to frame the Great Return mass  protests at the Gaza border as a ploy masterminded by Hamas to attack  Israel. Organizers of the march have denied this is the case.

_
_The government minister previously called for anyone who sends a burning kite, molotov cocktail or camera to land in Israel to be “treated as a terrorist in the middle of a terror attack.”

https://www.rt.com/news/426683-israe...th-nazi-hamas/
_

----------


## OhOh

*‘Gruesome propaganda attempt’: White House blames Hamas for Gaza deaths*"_The White House has accused Hamas of “gruesome propaganda” after  Israeli forces killed over 50 Palestinians on the border between Gaza  and Israel, as the US celebrated the transfer of its embassy to  Jerusalem.     _ 

_This is a “gruesome and unfortunate propaganda attempt” on part of Hamas, deputy White House press secretary Raj Shah told reporters on Monday, adding that Israel has the “right to defend itself.”

_
_“We believe that Hamas as an organization is engaged in cynical action leading to these deaths,” Shah added."

_
_Hamas, or the Islamic Resistance Movement, is the democratically  elected government of the Gaza strip. Israel considers it a terrorist  organization.

_

_Palestinians have gathered along the fence  separating Gaza from Israel for the past six weeks, as part of the Great  March of Return protests. Monday was the deadliest day yet,  with 52 people killed and more than 2,700 injured, according to the  latest figures from the Palestinian Health Ministry. Among the wounded  are 78 women and 203 children, the ministry said.

_
_The Palestinian authority denounced the deaths as a “terrible massacre” perpetrated “by the forces of the Israeli occupation,” and called for an immediate international intervention to prevent further deaths."

https://www.rt.com/usa/426712-usa-blames-hamas-gaza/_
https://www.rt.com/uk/426693-demo-pa...israel-deaths/
https://www.rt.com/usa/426684-embass...em-bad-optics/

----------


## OhOh

*South Africa withdraws ambassador from Israel*

_"South Africa has withdrawn its Ambassador to Israel following the killing of Palestinian protestors at the Gaza border._ _The South African government said in a statement on Monday that it “condemns in the strongest terms possible, the latest acts of violent aggression carried out by Israeli armed forces”.
_
_According to  the statement, the South African government took the decision to recall  Ambassador Sisa Ngombane until further notice, owing to the  indiscriminate nature and gravity of the Israeli attack.
_
_In it South  Africa reiterates its view that the Israeli Defence Force must withdraw  from the Gaza Strip and bring to an end the violent and destructive  incursions into Palestinian territory.
_
_The government  has also reiterated calls made by several member states of the United  Nations for an independent inquiry into the killings with a view to  holding to account those responsible.
_
_The South  African government is a fervent supporter of the Palestinian cause and  South Africa’s relations with Israel have long been frosty."

https://www.von.gov.ng/south-africa-...r-from-israel/
_

----------


## HermantheGerman

Nice try OhOh, you know very well that this so called condemnation of Israel will only last a few days, and then its back to business as usual.

----------


## HermantheGerman

By the way has anyone heard the story on how a perverted muslim family (incl. their OWN children) blew themselfs up in order to blow up a church ? 
Lots of outcry here from our TD apologist  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): . But I guess these stories are not news anymore because the seem to happen almost every day. Thank Allah we have a scapegoat called Israel. 



https://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asia-news/185148-suicide-bombers-attack-churches-indonesia-least.html#post3766239 (Suicide bombers attack churches in Indonesia, at least six dead)


Happy Nakba Day !  :Smile:

----------


## uncle junior

Alienate Iran and empower Bibi...ME peace just around the corner.....Jared's drawing up the accords now

----------


## HermantheGerman

> *South Africa withdraws ambassador from Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> _The South  African government is a fervent supporter of the Palestinian cause and  South Africa’s relations with Israel have long been frosty."
> 
> _


Maybe South Africa is afraid of loosing its status of being the most crime ridden, corrupt country in the world ?
But with 49 killings a day, (not counting rape  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): ) they will never loose this status.

C'mmon OhOh ! What a sorry lame ass comparison. You can do better then that.
Suggestion: how about you telling us on how your favourit countries like Russia and China deal with muslims.
And the other apologists, on how peacefull other religions live in dominant muslim country.

----------


## raycarey

yesterday the white house referred to gaza as 'southern israel'.

i've never heard a US administration say that before.

ever.

there can be no doubt that they want conflict and chaos.



btw, trump moving the embassy was for domestic consumption....more specifically his base...international relations be damned...he needs evangelicals to come out in november.

does anyone really think trump gives a shit about israel or jews?

i'm sure he was nearly apoplectic when his daughter converted for marriage.

----------


## jabir

> *South Africa withdraws ambassador from Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"South Africa has withdrawn its Ambassador to Israel following the killing of Palestinian protestors at the Gaza border._ _The South African government said in a statement on Monday that it “condemns in the strongest terms possible, the latest acts of violent aggression carried out by Israeli armed forces”.
> _
> _According to  the statement, the South African government took the decision to recall  Ambassador Sisa Ngombane until further notice, owing to the  indiscriminate nature and gravity of the Israeli attack.
> _
> ...


The 'protests' have been going on for weeks, so it must be a coincidence that SAfrican outrage surfaces with the embassy move; probably worth a badly needed hospital or two. 

But one on the side of god is a majority, in this case Trump satisfied his election pledge to move the embassy, and those who don't like it can earn brownie points by withdrawing their ambassadors for a few days on some pretext or other.

Now done, will be interesting to see if a future Democrat POTUS reverses the decision, and if it will be in their election manifesto.

----------


## bsnub

> there can be no doubt that they want conflict and chaos.


They are complete and utter morons. A bunch of bumbling idiots who have not a clue what they are doing.

----------


## jabir

> Alienate Iran and empower Bibi...ME peace just around the corner.....Jared's drawing up the accords now


Does anyone believe the embassy move will contribute toward a lasting peace?

----------


## Cujo

55 HUMANS DEAD, AT LEAST 2 OF THEM CHILDREN, AS A DIRECT RESULT OF TRUMPS ACTIONS.
If Trum hadn't moved the embassy these people would still be alive.

Israel faces outcry over Gaza killings during Jerusalem embassy protests
Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel obliged to ‘defend its borders’ after dozens of protesters die during Gaza’s bloodiest day since 2014 war.

Israel faced international condemnation after Gaza had its bloodiest day in years on Monday when Israeli forces killed 55 Palestinians and wounded at least 1,200 during protests against the opening of the US embassy in Jerusalem.


The funerals of those killed are expected to take place in the coastal enclave today, coinciding with the day Palestinians mark the “Nakba”, or catastrophe, commemorating the more than 700,000 Palestinians who fled or were expelled from their homes in the 1948 war surrounding Israel’s creation.


The UN human rights chief, Zeid Ra’ad al-Hussein, decried Monday’s “shocking killing of dozens”, saying “those responsible for outrageous human rights violations must be held to account”.


Turkey said it would recall its ambassadors to the US and Israel, and its president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, described Israel’s actions as “genocide”. South Africa also recalled its ambassador in protest at the “violent aggression carried out by Israeli armed forces”.


French president Emmanuel Macron “condemned the violence of the Israeli armed forces against protesters” in a telephone conversation with Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan’s King Abdullah II. He also reaffirmed criticism of the US decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem.


Kuwait requested an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council, which diplomats later told AFP the US had blocked.


Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, joined the US in blaming Hamas for the deaths, and defended his country’s use of force, saying “every country has the obligation to defend its borders”.




Fatal clashes in Gaza after opening of US embassy – in pictures
The violent scenes on Monday contrasted sharply with the glossy inauguration of Washington’s new mission about 60 miles away in an affluent Jerusalem neighbourhood. The US president’s daughter, Ivanka Trump, celebrated the opening to clapping and cheering from American and Israeli VIPs.


In Gaza’s hospitals, dozens of casualties were in a critical condition, and medics said the dead included a 14-year-old boy. There were reports that a man in a wheelchair who had been pictured using a slingshot had also been killed.


The sky was blackened with thick smoke as protesters lit tyres. Intermittent sniper fire was heard and crowds of protesters were seen rushing towards the fence, although Israel’s military said none had managed to breach it.

Fury and desperation at Trump’s December declaration on the embassy helped to ignite the six-week protest movement. To international condemnation, Israeli snipers have regularly fired on demonstrators in past rallies. Monday’s shootings raised the total deaths close to 100 and made it the bloodiest day in the coastal enclave since the 2014 war.


Gaza’s rulers Hamas has fought three conflicts with Israel but say they support peaceful ideals advocated by civilian protest leaders.


Donald Trump, who had tweeted that Monday was a “great day for Israel”, did not attend the embassy opening but spoke in a video message, saying he extended “a hand in friendship to Israel, the Palestinians and to all of their neighbours. May there be peace.”


Amnesty International criticised the bloodshed as “another horrific example of the Israeli military using excessive force and live ammunition in a totally deplorable way”.


At the ceremony in Jerusalem, Washington’s ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, stood on a stage painted with the US flag and said: “Today’s historic event is attributed to the vision, courage, and moral clarity of one person to whom we owe an enormous and eternal debt of gratitude: President Donald J Trump.” The crowd cheered and gave a standing ovation.


The only direct reference to the bloodshed came from Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who said: “As we have seen from the protests of the last month and even today those provoking violence are part of the problem and not part of the solution.”

In Washington, the White House deputy press secretary Raj Shah was repeatedly challenged to condemn the Israeli response. “We believe Hamas is responsible for these tragic deaths,” he told reporters. “Their rather cynical exploitation of the situation is what’s leading to these deaths and we want it stopped.”


Israel has portrayed the protests as a terrorist ploy by Hamas. Naftali Bennett, Israel’s education minister, told Israel Radio that anyone who approached the fence would be considered a terrorist. A foreign ministry spokesman labelled protesters “murderous rioters”.


The army said it had almost doubled the number of troops surrounding Gaza and in the occupied West Bank on Monday.


The Israel Defence Forces said in a statement: “The rioters are hurling firebombs and explosive devices towards the security fence and IDF forces, and are burning tires, throwing rocks and launching flaming objects in order to ignite fires in Israeli territory and harm IDF troops.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...bassy-protests

----------


## HermantheGerman

> French president Emmanuel Macron “condemned the violence of the Israeli armed forces against protesters” in a telephone conversation with Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan’s King Abdullah II. He also reaffirmed criticism of the US decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem.



Any criticism of the Arab decision to move jews out of France ? 
Get your country in shape you slimy froglegged attention whore !

More french people have died of terror these last few years then in Israel.



....then again....maybe he is just talkin BS in order to keep his 5 million whackos in place  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## jabir

Just had lunch with a lawyer mate who argued that the alternative to defending the border would be far worse; if the IDF backed off under the genius guidance of a clueless international community, allowing thousands of angry young men to breach the fences and enter Israel...what then? Sure they 'might' wander around scrumping oranges, for the truly dumb, but more likely they would threaten Israeli civilian communities and be wiped out.

----------


## tomcat

> allowing thousands of angry young men to breach the fences and enter Israel


...fortunately, that's not the only option...

----------


## uncle junior

Diplomacy might work

----------


## uncle junior

Compromise solutions....people talking...give and take....stuff like that

----------


## jabir

> Diplomacy might work


Can't see diplomacy working while rocks are flying one way and bullets the other, and ftr what's happening right now is a result of consistent diplomatic failure for more than half a century.

----------


## Fluke

> 55 HUMANS DEAD, AT LEAST 2 OF THEM CHILDREN, AS A DIRECT RESULT OF TRUMPS ACTIONS.
> If Trum hadn't moved the embassy these people would still be alive.


   If the people would not have lunched an attack on Israel, they would still be alive .

----------


## tomcat

> If the people would not have lunched an attack on Israel, they would still be alive


...certainly: malnourished, under-educated, poverty-stricken, jobless and burdened by poor health care, but...hey: alive!...

----------


## Cujo

> If the people would not have lunched an attack on Israel, they would still be alive .


If Trump hadn't moved the embassy IN THE FIRST PLACE they wouldn't have attacked.

----------


## Fluke

> If Trump hadn't moved the embassy IN THE FIRST PLACE they wouldn't have attacked.


   They still would have attacked, because this protest isnt about the Embassy moving .

----------


## jabir

Al Jazeera and BBC report a baby and two kids killed, neither questioned what they were doing in a live fire zone, mine would be despatched in the other direction.

----------


## Cujo

> Al Jazeera and BBC report a baby and two kids killed, neither questioned what they were doing in a live fire zone, mine would be despatched in the other direction.


Why the fuck is it a live fire zone?

----------


## buriramboy

> Why the fuck is it a live fire zone?


Because Israel doesn't have to comply with International law knowing the US will veto any attempted UN action/ resolutions against them. Live fire is only supposed to be used as a last resort when a threat to life but Israel uses it as a first resort as I said previously they have managed to dehumanize Palestinians in the eyes of the rest of the world that no one seems to give a shit.

----------


## tomcat

> as I said previously they have managed to dehumanize Palestinians in the eyes of the rest of the world


...and you were wrong previously...Israelis may be desensitized to killing Palestinians, but much of the international community recognizes their suffering...

----------


## buriramboy

> ...and you were wrong previously...Israelis may be desensitized to killing Palestinians, but much of the international community recognizes their suffering...


I was right before and am right now, they have successfully dehumanized them. As is shown by no international outcry about 50 dead Palestinians, all the feeble pathetic attempts at condemnation can't help but mention Israel's right to defend themselves thus justifying their actions. If any other country did this there would be sanctions or maybe dropping a bomb or 2 but because it's Israel killing Palestinians nothing will happen as no one cares. Will all be for forgotton about this time next month, then the same will happen again rinse and repeat.

----------


## tomcat

> As is shown by no international outcry about 50 dead Palestinians,


...still wrong......2 ambassadors withdrawn so far and French President Macron will chastise Netanyahu personally by phone...stay tuned for further developments...

----------


## HuangLao

Nuke Israel thoroughly. 

Problem solved.

----------


## buriramboy

> ...still wrong......2 ambassadors withdrawn so far and French President Macron will chastise Netanyahu personally by phone...stay tuned for further developments...


SA withdrawing their Ambassador that will show them.... You are an American, you vote for politicians that enable the status quo and dehumanization of the Palestinians by allowing Israel to kill then at will. Just how many UN resolutions has the US blocked under both demtard and repubtard administrations. Without the US unequivocal support Israel couldn't get away with what it does. But in Israel's defence fair play to them for being able to make America their bitch.

----------


## OhOh

> Russia and China deal with muslims


Like they treat all their citizens, lawfully. Not with bullets, missiles, starvation, stealing their water, putting them in  concentration camp....

But you are OK with treating people as slime.

And you wonder why so many around the world deal with you but wash their hands as soon as you leave. Unbelievable your kind have survived until now.

----------


## Farangrakthai

> Without the US unequivocal support Israel couldn't get away with what it does.


yep, the israeli lobby is very strong and successful in the u.s., of course. 

clinton made a half-arse attempt at a peace deal and blamed the failure on arafat who would have been hung when he got back home, if he had given up the land and rights that sharon wanted him to. 

besides that, carter was the last u.s. president to really put pressure on israel. 

obviously, israel doesn't want to give up land for peace and is happy with the status-quo and america just says "what you gonna do.  we can't force a peace deal."

----------


## buriramboy

Why do Americans love Israel so much, 90% of Americans probably couldn't even find it on a map.

----------


## Farangrakthai

> Why do Americans love Israel so much, 90% of Americans probably couldn't even find it on a map.


most americans couldn't care less while the religious right is tight with the zionists, supporting israeli expansion. 

apperently, american jews are split with half supporting (financially) the loony settlers moving in on palestinian land and half who support a palestinian state and criticize israel's actions against the palestinians.

----------


## HuangLao



----------


## OhOh



----------


## harrybarracuda

On the bright side, I'm pretty sure the Nobel committee will be taking note.

----------


## buriramboy

> On the bright side, I'm pretty sure the Nobel committee will be taking note.


The Nobel committee lost all credibility when they gave the black Jesus a gong when he hadn't done anything.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The Nobel committee lost all credibility when they gave the black Jesus a gong when he hadn't done anything.


The NYT nailed it when they said it was "a (barely) implicit condemnation of Mr. Bush's presidency".

----------


## Dragonfly

> The Nobel committee lost all credibility when they gave the black Jesus a gong when he hadn't done anything.


they lost it in 1975 when they gave that obscene fat Israeli, Kissinger, the Nobel price for peace

what a frigging joke,

and yes Obama was a big disappointment for peace, and it was a bit too early to give him one

----------


## bobo746



----------


## bobo746

^ Israeli,American terrorism.Let's make the world great again.(Fail)

----------


## HuangLao

> On the bright side, I'm pretty sure the Nobel committee will be taking note.


Whatta phony outfit that is. 
Sorted.

----------


## tomcat

> Like they treat all their citizens, lawfully.


... :rofl: ...you might want to discuss your opinion with Tibetans, Uygers, folks of the 'stans and those who disagree with the leaders of either country...

----------


## Hugh Cow

While everyone is talking bullshit here, the fact is there are many unnecessary deaths and as usual the Palestinians are copping the brunt of it. I would like to know what the total Israeli deaths are compared to the Palestinians over the last 20 years. I would imagine about 100 palestinians to 1 Israeli. Looking at the comments I can see how Hitler came to power and how gullible people really are. One would have to be myopic not to see some parallels between what Israel is doing and what the Nazis did. Anything  becomes justifiable if you are far enough to the left or right. Again, religion is to some degree at the root of this problem, coupled with peoples stupidity. Everyone knows this is about land and this fight will become the forever war if it hasn't already. Tough sanctions on Israel is the only hope of getting a reasonable deal done. No point in sanctions on the Palestinians who have got SFA already.

----------


## Hugh Cow

The U.S. government see its' interest lays with supporting Israel at all cost and the Palestinians are just collateral damage, expendable for the greater good of American interests. Unfortunately the very people who the government is supposed to protect, U.S. citizens, can become subjected to this false narrative.

----------


## tomcat

> The U.S. government see its' interest lays with supporting Israel at all cost


...of course it does: tRump needs to satisfy his Christian base and all their fantasies in order to retain their votes...blinkered, narrow-minded nonsense, but that's how democracies work...

----------


## sabang

Wow, what an auspicious day. A low powered delegation of wannabe's and scoundrels (including press whores) slinks into the "Grand opening" of the all new US Embassy in the capital of Israel, west Jerusalem._ [the capital of Palestine, East Jerusalem, is just a couple of km's away]._ Wow, real game changer that, e'hh? Not.

And of course, in true Israeli and American style, they cover themselves in Blood in the process. Another game changer e'hhh? Not. Screw these Embassies- what is the point of them anyway when there is no observable International Law? reopen the Temple of Baal, I say. A bit of good old fashioned blood sacrifice always amuses the home audience. Especially Trump & Bibi fans.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Everyone knows this is about land


Some know more than others, clearly.

----------


## Fluke

> One would have to be myopic not to see some parallels between what Israel is doing and what the Nazis did.


   Previously, the Nazis came for the Jews , we all know what happened then .
The Jews were unable to defend themselves .
  Now the Muslims are coming for the Jews , Jews can now defend themselves

----------


## HermantheGerman

“Make no mistake: Hamas is pleased with the results from yesterday,” she  said, as she explained how the terror group had goaded protestors into  heading into dangerous areas of the fence by falsely telling them the  IDF had fled.

Hamas used “loudspeakers that urge demonstrators to  burst through the fence, falsely claiming Israeli soldiers were  fleeing, when in fact, they were not. The same loudspeakers are used by  Hamas to urge the crowds to ‘Get closer! Get closer!’ to the security  fence,” Haley said.

“I ask my colleagues here in the Security  Council: Who among us would accept this type of activity on your border?  No one would. No country in this chamber would act with more restraint  than Israel has. In fact, the records of several countries here today  suggest they would be much less restrained,” she charged.

----------


## uncle junior

> Haley said.


Considering the source, I'll hold off on making any decisions.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> 



Do you have any cute colorfull map from jews fleeing arab countries ?
Did they get refugee status ?
Did they not loose all their livelihoods and possessions ?

It's a proven fact that Jews expelled from arab countries had to leave land behind four times the size of Israel.

Take your map and shove it some whiny old muslim bitches ass.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Considering the source, I'll hold off on making any decisions.


Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull told Melbourne Radio 3AW: "Hamas'  conduct is confrontational. They're seeking to provoke the Israeli  defense forces."
  Turnbull says: "They're pushing people to the border. In that  conflict zone, you're basically pushing people into circumstances where  they are very likely to be shot at."

----------


## uncle junior

> They're pushing people to the border. In that conflict zone, you're basically pushing people into circumstances where they are very likely to be shot at."


Palestinians are in a corner with nothing to lose. In this and alot of other incidents they can be shown to be guilty of breaching the border and egging on the IDF.

The border clashes and martyrdom of the Gaza residents is in response to Israel's aggression. No room for Israel to play the innocent victim here.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Like they treat all their citizens, lawfully.





> ......you might want to discuss your opinion with Tibetans, Uygers, folks of the 'stans and those who disagree with the leaders of either country...



Thanks Tomcat. I'am amazed on how OhOh gets away with posting crap like this.

----------


## tomcat

> I'am amazed on how OhOh gets away with posting crap like this


...like a gaudy drag queen, he needs the attention...the surprise is that anyone responds to him...

----------


## HermantheGerman

Another refugee tragedy that our apologists don't want to see, read or hear. This is how Arab/Muslims treat their own:





> Maarawi is among a small number of refugees who have come back to Syria  from among the more than 5.4 million who fled their homeland since the  civil war erupted in 2011. So far, they are just a trickle, numbering in  the tens of thousands.


....sorry No Can Do !




> As thousands of Syrians flee their homes in Eastern Ghouta to escape a fierce air and ground offensive led by pro-government forces, President Bashar al-Assad has introduced a new law which can potentially see the state confiscating the lands of millions of displaced people.
> 
>  Law Number 10,  introduced earlier this week, calls on Syrians to register their  private properties with the Ministry of Local Administration within 30  days.
> 
>  Titleholders must either provide proof of ownership  documents themselves, or ensure a relative does so on their behalf.  Otherwise, they face having to relinquish their properties to the state.


Comments are welcomed:............

----------


## uncle junior

> Comments are welcomed:............


Start a muslim bashing thread. This uns about a new embassy

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Another refugee tragedy that our apologists don't want to see, read or hear. This is how Arab/Muslims treat their own:


No it isn't, you moron. This is how a dictator, propped up by Russia and Iran, treats his own citizens.

The fucking blue suede shoes don't even have the decency to ask whose land it is they're stealing.

----------


## OhOh

> .you might want to discuss your opinion with Tibetans, Uygers, folks of the 'stans and those who disagree with the leaders of either country..


You may wish to review the popularity, trust and life changes that happened in Russia and China compared to elsewhere. You may wish to compare the %/population numbers in jails in Russia and China, compared to elsewhere.

But as you live in your imaginary world you wouldn't care to learn the truth.




> like a gaudy drag queen


You've been looking in the mirror too much, get out and meet some real people.




> I'am amazed on how OhOh gets away with posting crap like this.


I'm amazed you've managed to exist with your prejudices for so long. Possibly I and others, get away with it here and in the real word, is because we actually add something rather than spouting trite as you do.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You may wish to review the popularity, trust and life changes that happened in Russia and China compared to elsewhere. You may wish to compare the %/population numbers in jails in Russia and China, compared to elsewhere.


You might wish to compare the number of journalists jailed or killed, polonium tea dished out, newspapers and TV stations shut down or taken over by the state, etc. elsewhere before you carry on fawning over your facist heroes.

You muppet.

----------


## Maanaam

Interesting angle.
Those evangelicals are trying to force a major war.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12052786


Prophecy is unfolding in the Middle East. Riots. Killings. War. At its centre is President Donald Trump. And his evangelical supporters are hoping he will bring on Armageddon.
The move of the US embassy to Jerusalem was bold.
Its outcome was predictable.

----------


## bsnub

> Prophecy is unfolding in the Middle East. Riots. Killings. War. At its centre is President Donald Trump. And his evangelical supporters are hoping he will bring on Armageddon.


Exactly.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Boiled down, they believe in Armageddon — an apocalyptic Middle Eastern war — and the second coming of Jesus Christ. When this happens, 144,000 Christian souls will be granted access to Heaven. The rest will remain on Earth to be punished.


Is this a lottery or something? Where do you get a ticket?

Do you have to read Elephant poo to pick your numbers?

----------


## uncle junior

A couple of SDAs will be around to ur house shortly with some pamphlets for you to read.

----------


## HermantheGerman

> No it isn't, you moron. This is how a dictator, propped up by Russia and Iran, treats his own citizens.
> 
> The fucking blue suede shoes don't even have the decency to ask whose land it is they're stealing.


Congratulations ! You almost got it figured out ! Now just put 1+1 together and you can write something usefull here on this forum.

I'll give you a hint Islam + Dictators = Norm

These people don't like to be shafted by Kafirs. They like their shaft to be Halal, or else they squeal like dirty pigs.



I'll give you another hint:

_“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.”_

And before you make another stupid comment.....yes this includes judaism !!!!!!!!

----------


## HermantheGerman

> Interesting angle.
> 
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12052786


Thats stupid article has the making of a sketch on the comedy channel. Those naiv ass Kiwis better look out that China don't pull the rug from underneath their feet.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
I can hear them cry for U.S. help already. Anyway lets give this a good laugh

 :smiley laughing: 



> _
> It has shattered hopes of fresh peace negotiations between Israel and Palestine_


_

_

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## HermantheGerman

> You may wish to compare the %/population numbers in jails in Russia and China, compared to elsewhere.


Another worthy Comedy Channel sketch.
With out you this forum would only be half the fun.
How do you think up of this crap ? 

Here's a Russian joke for ya:

A plumber is sent to the gulag as a  political prisoner. An intellectual asks him, "You are a plumber. What  could you have possibly done?" The plumber replies "I was called to the  politburo office to check some problem with the sewage pipes. I told  them that the whole system is broken and has to be replaced. They sent  me here"


What is the difference between the Constitutions of the USA and USSR? Both guarantee freedom of speech.
Yes, but the Constitution of the USA also guarantees freedom after the speech.


At a May Day parade, a very old Jew carries a slogan, "Thank you, comrade Stalin, for my happy childhood!"
The  Party representative approaches the old man. "What's that? Are you  deriding our Party? Everybody can see, when you were a child, comrade  Stalin was not yet born!"
"That's precisely what I'm grateful to him for!" the Jew said.


OhOh you can definitely keep up with these "Original" Russian jokes. Keep up the good work.

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## harrybarracuda

> Congratulations ! You almost got it figured out ! Now just put 1+1 together and you can write something usefull here on this forum.
> 
> I'll give you a hint Islam + Dictators = Norm


You seem to be under the illusion that being a Dictator is simply a muslim thing.

Which shows how dim you are, doesn't it.

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## Klondyke

> “Yes, but the Constitution of the USA also guarantees freedom after the speech.”


When Assange, Snowden, and many others heard this joke, they could not stop laughing...

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## OhOh

> Prophecy is unfolding in the Middle East. Riots. Killings. War. At its centre is President Donald Trump. And his evangelical supporters are hoping he will bring on Armageddon.


Not at all the alleged "army",  put together into yet another phantom coalition by the BB is rejecting the bugle call.

*Egypt Will Not Send Troops to Syria*




Egypt's Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry (AFP/File Photo)

*Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry announced on Monday that Egypt will not be sending troops to Syria.
*
In a press conference with his Russian  counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, Shourky responded to a question regarding  Syria, stating that “Egypt has indicated on many occasions that the  withdrawal of its forces outside its territory follows the military  doctrine of the Egyptian forces, whose main tasks are defending the  Egyptian territories, therefore sending forces outside the country is  subject to constitutional measures.”

He added that “We did not  address these issues with a theoretical concept or prospects, these  issues are not raised at the moment.

Recently, US based newspaper  The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) released a report in which it highlighted  an alleged request by the United States to Egypt in order to  send armed  forces to Syria.

In response, former undersecretary of Egypt’s  General Intelligence Mohammed Rashad told Egypt Independent that Egypt  would decline any such invitation.

“The Egyptian Armed Forces are  not mercenaries [and cannot be] leased or ordered by foreign states to  deploy forces in a certain area. This is not acceptable and no one […]  should dare to direct or give instructions to Egypt’s army,” Rashad said

The  WSJ report cited US officials as saying that that the “Trump  administration is seeking to assemble an Arab force to replace the US  military contingent in Syria and help stabilize the northeastern part of  the country after the defeat of Islamic State”.  It could be inferred  that Egyptian troops would be included in that Arab force.

Rashad  told Egypt Independent that Egypt is not interested to militarily  intervene in Syria, adding that the Sisi regime has adopted a neutral  stance towards the conflict.
The  report claimed that the recently-appointed national security adviser  John Bolton has called Egypt’s acting Intelligence Chief Abbas Kamel to  see if Cairo would be willing to contribute with military personnel.

The  WSJ also quoted anonymous US officials who noted that the Trump  administration  has reached out to Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United  Arab Emirates,  Asking for funding of billions of dollars to help  restore northern Syria while sending their own troops.

“Egypt is  adopting a strategy that is based on supporting the unity of the Syrian  territories and its national army, therefore, Egypt is refusing any  interference from foreign countries in Syria as the matter is related to  the Syrian people and only they have the authority to decide their  fate,” Rashed explained




> these "Original" Russian jokes


You really do need to leave those children's story books behind you. Tody's world has moved on from, "The Russians are coming" and "Commie China".

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## harrybarracuda

> The WSJ also quoted anonymous US officials who noted that the Trump administration has reached out to Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, Asking for funding of billions of dollars to help restore northern Syria while sending their own troops.


He really doesn't know much about the GCC military, does he?

They aren't exactly hard men.

I know one GCC colonel who turned down a call to arms because it was the day he took his mother shopping.

 :Smile:

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## happynz

^No surprises there. 555

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## Klondyke

> Originally Posted by HermantheGerman 
> Yes, but the Constitution of the USA also guarantees freedom after the speech.





> When Assange, Snowden, and many others heard this joke, they could not stop laughing...


This is funny. On  my above remark I've got 2 notifications:
-1 red and "555" 
-1 green and "Haha"

Anybody wants to guess who gave me red?

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## OhOh

^Reds, greens, are you bovvered?

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## Hugh Cow

> Congratulations ! You almost got it figured out ! Now just put 1+1 together and you can write something usefull here on this forum.
> 
> I'll give you a hint Islam + Dictators = Norm
> 
> These people don't like to be shafted by Kafirs. They like their shaft to be Halal, or else they squeal like dirty pigs.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll give you another hint:
> ...


According to my count of the 51 heads of state considered Dictators approx 26 are muslim. I included any considered a dictator in a country ending in "stan" So I suppose HTG does have a point as 50% are muslim but so does Harry as 50% aren't. 
However it is irelevant to the fact that the Israelis are occupying and controlling land that does not belong to them, including East Jerusalem. They are denying Palestinians the right to be on land they have previously owned and occupied and they are building illegal settlements,all in contravention of U.N. resolutions. 
Many governments are quick to point out countries who are in contravention of U.N. resolutions when it suits them and ignore them when it doesn't. I regrettably have to include my own country, Australia, in that mix of  hypocrisy.
 Personally, I would rather the four be twos in charge of a site that is considered special to Christians than the followers of a puffed up caravan robber but as much as I would not lose one iota of sleep if Al aksa was raised to the ground and the four bees built their temple there, the fact is the Palestinians have a right to be there no matter how much they fawn and toady over a 6th century pedo.

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## tomcat

> Anybody wants to guess who gave me red?


...someone who sees you as a persistently naive provocateur...perhaps?... :rofl:

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## tomcat

> However it is irelevant to the fact that the Israelis are occupying and controlling land that does not belong to them


...*cough*...so are the Chinese, Russians, Americans, Canadians, Brazilians, etc...the Israelis are following a long-established international pattern...

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## harrybarracuda

> ...someone who sees you as a persistently naive provocateur...perhaps?...


Or a fuckwit perhaps.

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## tomcat

...^yeah, better word choice...

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## TuskegeeBen

> You may wish to review the popularity, trust and life changes that happened in Russia and China compared to elsewhere. You may wish to compare the %/population numbers in jails in Russia and China, compared to elsewhere.
> 
> But as you live in your imaginary world you wouldn't care to learn the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> You've been looking in the mirror too much, get out and meet some real people.
> 
> 
> ...


_Exactamundo!_ *3X* spot on target, sir.  :smilie_clap:

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## TuskegeeBen

> ...*cough*...so are the Chinese, Russians, Americans, Canadians, Brazilians, etc...the Israelis are following a long-established international pattern...



the Israelis are *following* a long-established international pattern... :rofl:

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## TuskegeeBen

> ^Reds, greens, are you bovvered?


 *Ditto!*

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## Klondyke

> ...someone who sees you as a persistently naive provocateur...perhaps?...





> Or a fuckwit perhaps.


WYSIWYG   :bananaman:

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## TuskegeeBen

> WYSIWYG


 *Klondyke*, you also have a most unique sense of acronymic humor. *Cheers!*  :smilie_clap:

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