#  >  > Non Asia Travel Forums >  >  > Travel the World Travellers Tales Forum >  >  Buying land off grid

## hick

in...Canada, the U.S., Australia, New Zealand or...where else?

Has anyone here ever bought land in a remote area, by chance?

Anywhere outside the U.S. (for myself and my wife) would probably include some issues with visas, etc.  
And if I do go with the U.S. it'll be narrowed down further to the Pacific NW.

I haven’t gotten deep enough yet to figure out what countries are off-limits but I am gravitating more so towards mountainous and wintry (for at least part of the year).

Hoping to locate something off grid with 50+ acres (20 hectares), paved road in the vicinity, direct dirt road access, 20-30 miles from closest small town, river or creek bisection, at least 50% forested area, bountiful in wild animals, flora/fauna, mountain or water view and in a place where there are no (present or immediate) concerns about neighbors.

I’d want to start spending my off time there and eventually put a team together to construct a log cabin, probably a storage shed and a small barn aimed at alternative sources of energy.

Not aiming for a commercial enterprise, nor an investment, really.  
It will just (eventually) be a place to relax, hunt, fish, self-sustain and be.

Please chime in if you know of any decent land deals, have some knowledge or experience to share or have a similar plan.


landwatch.com seems to own a virtual corner on the market for CAN and the US.

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## Stinky

Dony forget your bug out bag

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## UrbanMan

It's possible to buy land in most parts of Mexico (more bureaucracy than in the first world), except for land adjacent to the ocean, which has much in the way of unique rules to prevent foreigners from monopolizing all the beach front.

If you're out in the boonies of Mexico, you'll need to be comfortable with guns, as you kinda are your own police in terms of protecting your property.  Human and animal threats.  Mexico has attractive, low bureaucracy tourist visa options.  As long you promise you won't work, its easy to be legal if you are American, Canadian or British (legal spouses of other nationalities, you'd have to investigate that - I've been there several times, and without fail I saw non-American Asian faces, if that means anything).  You have to show you have enough money to support yourself and have a valid passport is really about it.

Most of the north half of Mexico is arid, you have to go to the south half generally speaking to get legit fauna.  That said, there are probably some pockets in the north half that would be exceptions.  The middle of Mexico gets mountainous (higher elevations), and that's where you will find places that are not baking year round.

As far as getting stuff built goes, accounts of getting things done in Mexico, many of them are similar to accounts of getting things done in LOS.  When will workmen show up, how good are they at what they do, getting supplies, expect headaches.

50 acres might be hard to achieve, when land gets parceled up for sale, the parcels tend to be smaller, as foreigners in general don't want to come and be actual farmers/ranchers.   However, money does of course talk.

Mexico is on my top 5 list as far as a place to at some point go hang for a few years.  Me, I'll aim for a city or at least a town, as I am the Urbanman after all.

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## DrB0b

Off-grid has to do with how you live, not how you buy land. It is almost impossible to buy land anywhere in the world without government interference, a fundamental thing about government being that that they have control of the land. However there are many places where once you've bought land the government will then leave you pretty much alone for the rest of your lives, except for taxes. That's about as off-grid as real life gets. It is possible to live genuinely and fully off-grid but that's a bloody awful lifestyle and oodyou're likely to be dead of starvation or murder within five years of starting. Semi off-grid will give you the control you want and still allow you access to food and gasoline.


Those people unfortunate enough to survive genuinely off-grid lifestyles, nazis, race-warriors, and religious freaks and such, and not in some soft western play-time version of off-grid, would, could, and do kill to get away from that particular nightmare. In real life the only way to prosper off-grid is to get Discovery Channel to record your travails and pay you for it.


Nevertheless. Dream on, Grizzly Adams  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## armstrong

this was a good watch h.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Fo...es_in_the_Wild

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## Latindancer

Australia is suffering from drought due to El Nino, and it will probably continue on and off. 

Perhaps New Zealand might suit your tastes ? Have a look at some of the scenery online....

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## crackerjack101

Canada. There are towns that'll give land away free to encourage people to move in. I doubt they'd give you 50 acres but there could well be some good deals to be had.

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## hick

cheers all

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## Slick

> And if I do go with the U.S. it'll be narrowed down further to the Pacific NW.


All right Ill bite. 

Just to make sure:

You are American right? 

And why the NW? 




> have some knowledge or experience to share or have a similar plan.


Yeah I spend a while on this subject and wasted a lot of employment fuck-off time on it. I had 120 +/- acres in the Ozarks thats now sold and 20 acres in rural FL for sale locally. 

I guess the main thing is why? Whats your background? 

TBH man, its not for everyone, at all. If you are going to do it, I recommend the US by far. 

I can tell you one thing, there is satellite internet available from Hughes Net everywhere now. Its expensive, but works & its data capped. 10mbs and youtube & stuff works well. Even when cellular phones do not. If I remember correctly its about $120/month for 30gb of data. 

Tons of things to take into consideration.

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## aging one

Here you go, way over your price, not off the grid, but damn....

Vacant Land for Sale | LandLeader | Own this Town! ~ Tiller, Oregon 97484

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## Norton

> Canada


You bet. Way off the grid.  :Smile: 

https://www.ecoproperty.ca/listings/...ritories-37357

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## hick

> You are American right? 
> 
> And why the NW?


Right. I like the wet weather there and have a lot of experience hiking & camping in the back country of the aforementioned states...and many others TBH:  Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado to name a few more that I like.




> I guess the main thing is why? Whats your background?


I'm comfortable in the wilderness, miss the wilderness and have plenty of experience with hunting, fishing, foraging, edible identification, gardening, contour map reading, survivalist training, firearms and other weapons training among some other skills.

TBH, am not really very interested in people's opinions about whether or not I _should_ do this or that....in terms of the finances, risks, dangers and so on. 

Please consider me to be a fairly informed individual on these matters.  I've been sizing up land offers (mainly in AK) for more than a decade and have visited numerous offers in person. Time and patience are at play and I won't be jumping into anything without first exploring every surrounding avenue, talking to all involved personally and visiting /staying near the site for more than a week.
Although, I do appreciate your concerns.

However, I've posted it here (rather than in an off-grid forum), so I realize that fielding other poster's concerns, beliefs, doubts, critiques, etc. is part of it.

I have zero interest in being online out _there_ but I would have an emergency satellite phone and I do thank you for the info.

Why?  Take a break from people, the internet, find true solace again, observe wildlife, have some me time....provide for myself, build a sustainable getaway, get back to nature, breathe (and have a lot of space to work on projects while on vacation from the Arab world).

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## hick

> Here you go, way over your price, not off the grid, but damn....


Holy fuckin' hell, doesn't that look awesome!

Can you imagine?

Just shy of 4 mill.....no AO, I could swing that.....along with about 30 of my friends.   :Razz:

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## hick

Here we go....dream a lil' dream here:



_
As a general rule, foreigners are not allowed to own freehold islands in Thailand; but exceptions are..._

Islands for Sale in Thailand, Asia

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## hick

So up to now I'm seeing:

Canada, U.S., New Z, Mexico as possibilities.

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## armstrong

> rather than in an off-grid forum)


is there really a forum for people living off the grid to get together online and try to out wildernesss eachother?

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## hick

> Originally Posted by hick
> 
> rather than in an off-grid forum)
> 
> 
> is there really a forum for people living off the grid to get together online and try to out wildernesss eachother?


Heh

several

Although the "outdo" part isn't _always_ the modus operandi outside of Thai fora, my man.   :Wink:

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## TizMe

I owned 27 hectares about 60klm north west of Brisbane in the early 1990s.
Original idea was to bread miniature cattle (Dexter).
But decided to sell when I got a contract to work in the Middle East.
It would probably be worth a small fortune now....

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## VocalNeal

What about Brazil? More farming or gardening than hunting and fishing but...

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## Slick

> TBH, am not really very interested in people's opinions about whether or not I should do this or that....in terms of the finances, risks, dangers and so on.


Wasn't trying to convince you not to do it, I just didnt want to type a wall of text to a tire kicker, ya know? 




> 'm comfortable in the wilderness, miss the wilderness and have plenty of experience with hunting, fishing, foraging, edible identification, gardening, contour map reading, survivalist training, weapons training among some other skills.


Same here. Just a few to provide some 'street cred' 






> have some knowledge or experience to share or have a similar plan.


Not trying to convince you not to do anything, and I'm sure youve thought about all this, but here is a general overview of my experience:

I wanted the same thing, but it ends up a 24/7 job with barely any of the fun stuff you mention. Seriously. Trees fall, pump breaks, leave for a couple months and it takes a month working by yourself with a tractor & bush hog to get things livable. Grass needs cut. Took me 2, 10 hour days to cut 17 acres with a 5' bushhog and thats as long as I don't hit a gopher hole and shear a pin etc...  

You say you don't want internet, but trust me, its a literal necessity. The amount of time it takes in your truck to get around (hours 1 way) to find 911 spares for some essential thing, general spares, planned particular items etc... In the US the postal delivery system & internet reaches all the way out to the boonies. 90% of the stuff you need can be ordered online and delivered for the same price or cheaper, and you just have to go to the post office in ur truck. 

Tractor Supply & Harbor Freight deliver door to door, with a lift gate etc... 

I don't know how large of a family unit you have thats of a useable workforce but I can say from experience its impossible to manage 50 acres in any livable state alone, let alone if its a part time hobby thing. It'll be overgrown in a single season in the livable areas.

You have to know how to do most anything involving the building process. AC & DC wiring and electricity, diagnostics on small engines & tractors, you name it. 50 Acres requires a shop, full of tools & welding machines & compressors. Alot of this stuff can be acquired with the purchase of the property, but you gotta know how to use it all. Luckily I did but I couldn't imagine if someone just knew the basics & had to manage. Residential wiring is a huge one that people underestimate. 

Anyway I could blabber for hours on the subject, but I would do the states since, well, gunz, topographical surveys, muh freedomz, tech, etc... Makes no sense to try all this in a country you're not a national of. 

Ozarks is where I would look if I was you. 200K USD and you got around 120 acres & cabin, streams, caves, more wildlife than some zoos. Cold winters & warm summers. Livable & farmable. Natural water for wildlife. Remote as fuck. No electricity & totally off grid. 

Same area & same price 50 acres & decent home with shop. Probably about 5 acres around the house that has to be managed and the rest can be kept wild. Thats manageable but still a lot of work for just a person or 3.

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## hick

Thanks for the tips, Slick!

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## VocalNeal

If it must be US here is a resource. http://www.celltowerinfo.com/wp-cont...Washington.jpg

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## CaptainNemo

> Off-grid has to do with how you live, not how you buy land. It is almost impossible to buy land anywhere in the world without government interference, a fundamental thing about government being that that they have control of the land.


...except for Antartica, but then there are obviously a whole lot of other issues to contend with. Living permanently at sea is arguably a more "genuine" off-grid lifestyle, but you'll soon become very painfully aware of how dependent your life is on others.

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## Slick

This is the internet company. Make up an address to see the prices. Its a bit better now with 50 GB monthly for $99.00, typical contract of course. 

https://www.hughesnet.com/get-started

And their new Gen 5 satellite - EchoStar XIX was launched, interestingly enough, by SpaceX out of Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. Pretty neat. 

People bang on about how fucked up and horrible the US is, but its not at all, and we got this cool shit happening all the time  :Smile: 

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016...-echostar-xix/

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## rickschoppers

> It's possible to buy land in most parts of Mexico (more bureaucracy than in the first world), except for land adjacent to the ocean, which has much in the way of unique rules to prevent foreigners from monopolizing all the beach front.
> 
> If you're out in the boonies of Mexico, you'll need to be comfortable with guns, as you kinda are your own police in terms of protecting your property.  Human and animal threats.  Mexico has attractive, low bureaucracy tourist visa options.  As long you promise you won't work, its easy to be legal if you are American, Canadian or British (legal spouses of other nationalities, you'd have to investigate that - I've been there several times, and without fail I saw non-American Asian faces, if that means anything).  You have to show you have enough money to support yourself and have a valid passport is really about it.
> 
> Most of the north half of Mexico is arid, you have to go to the south half generally speaking to get legit fauna.  That said, there are probably some pockets in the north half that would be exceptions.  The middle of Mexico gets mountainous (higher elevations), and that's where you will find places that are not baking year round.
> 
> As far as getting stuff built goes, accounts of getting things done in Mexico, many of them are similar to accounts of getting things done in LOS.  When will workmen show up, how good are they at what they do, getting supplies, expect headaches.
> 
> 50 acres might be hard to achieve, when land gets parceled up for sale, the parcels tend to be smaller, as foreigners in general don't want to come and be actual farmers/ranchers.   However, money does of course talk.
> ...


I don't think Mexico is a very good place to buy land now, maybe 20 years ago, but not anymore.

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## Slick

> I don't think Mexico is a very good place to buy land now, maybe 20 years ago, but not anymore.


Personally the last place I would invest anything. All the negatives, plus drugs, money, cartels....

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## rickschoppers

Just part of why I shit canned my idea of retiring in Mexico over 11 years ago. I spent a lot of time in Mexico up to that time and watched the country go slowly down the drain.

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## hick

> This is the internet company.


Slick, you may feel absolutely free to add anything to this thread that you feel is related, and I appreciate your input - but honestly....we have two very different ideas of what this will be all about.

As unrealistic as you'll probably feel that this is, I'm aiming for near-total rustic:

There will be no heavy machinery or gasoline on my property.  
(not even kerosene)

The log cabin will be built the old-fashioned way (by hand, with hand tools) over time with help.

I won't allow any military-type assault weapons.
I'm cautious and will take the necessary precautions, but I'm not going to live in a paranoid state.  
One 30.06, a 12 gauge shotgun, and a .44 mag ought to do it and that (maybe a second scoped rifle for visitors) is probably more firepower than I'll need but I can put them all to good use.

If some psycho militant group (or grizzly bear) seeks me out or finds me and decides _it's to be the end of my days_, I'll just have to go down fighting with what I've got.

There will not be an internet signal to be had, period. 
The library (next to the wood-burning stove) will be fairly well stocked with pertinent guides/field books, etc.

And the _emergency_ satellite phone will be in a communal area that's easy to reach but set to 'off.'

Locals who are situated in the nearest town will be clued in to my whereabouts, intentions (for that particular month) and anyone who may be accompanying me.
Plans will be set to check-in and check-out with them at coordinated times.

I have zero interest in clear-cutting my land other than dropping trees for structures and clearing the immediate living area to make space for wind turbine equipment, southern exposure for solar panels and gardening.

My main goals will be preservation of the land in its natural state, minimizing impact through self-sustaining practices involving environmentally efficient power methods, primal living characteristics, Native American influences (minus the battles) and generating happiness.

I'll only kill what I want to eat and use or what's trying to eat or kill me and want to be in an area where I can plan ahead and strike out for weeks at a time on hiking, hunting and fishing journeys.  

Everything keeps pointing back to Alaska....or NW Canada.

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## Slick

^ I just like guns and the internet bro. No survivalist shit  :Smile: 

The large property thing, I'm a country person from birth so its all cohesive.

You plan to do way more than me  :Smile:  

I just like to hunt & fish and of course eat with I kill. 

I also need youtube and information on tap incase anything happens and I need info STAT  :Smile:

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## hick

It's all good.  I'm sure everyone has their own take on it....but most have none at all.   :Wink: 

I really do appreciate your input, sincerely.

Hopefully we'll both still be on here when it plays out.

I can update between ventures.   :Wink:

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## rickschoppers

My recommendation is stay out of the south. If you are good at winter survival, like you say you are, maybe northern Idaho, Wyoming, Montana or Colorado might be good choices. I would stay clear of Utah, too many Mormons. The states I mentioned all have ample timber, wildlife, streams and lakes so that lodging, hunting and foraging would not be that difficult.

Last summer while in the US, I looked at land in Colorado to possibly place a trailer and come live during the summers. I saw several pieces of land on Craigslist that may suit your needs. If I were a bit younger, I probably would have purchased one of the lots in Colorado that I was looking at. Good luck.

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## hick

Thanks Rick.  Appreciated.

After the purchase, I'll be looking to "build up to" doing a full winter, most likely.  

I do like to be over-prepared for things.


Don't wanna......slip too hard:

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## Latindancer

> One 30.06, a 12 gauge shotgun, and a .44 mag ought to do it and that (maybe a second scoped rifle for visitors) is probably more firepower than I'll need but I can put them all to good use.



Uh...right. 

The GUEST rifle.

Best you stay in Canada/USA then. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## rickschoppers

Great hunting in Canada and the US. Just be sure to eat what you kill.

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## UrbanMan

> I don't think Mexico is a very good place to buy land now, maybe 20 years ago, but not anymore.


Drug cartels have definitely made things dicey in many areas (I should have mentioned that).  Most slightly older people still like that it is generally warm, there are at least hints of America nearly everywhere, and if/when you want civilization, its nearby either within Mexico or via a relatively short plane ride to the good ol' usa.




> You say you don't want internet, but trust me, its a literal necessity.


Adding to Slick's list, remember that as off the grid as you might seek to be, you'll need to manage and access your money.  The internet is how you do that.  




> I've been sizing up land offers (mainly in AK)


From LOS/the middle east, to Alaska?  About as big of a change as one can make.




> If you are good at winter survival


I've watched some of those reality shows.  Work your ass off all summer preparing and accumulating for the winter, survive the winter, next spring start repairing the damage winter did, repeat.  Ugg.

.

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## Stinky

> I've watched some of those reality shows.  Work your ass off all summer preparing and accumulating for the winter, survive the winter, next spring start repairing the damage winter did, repeat.  Ugg.


Those people are more Hollywood than backwoods, set up reality shows short on  actual reality.

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## hick

> Drug cartels have definitely made things dicey in many areas (I should have mentioned that).


Unnecessary,... you had lost me at:




> If you're out in the boonies of Mexico, you'll need to be comfortable with guns, as you kinda are your own police in terms of protecting your property.


which is par for the course anywhere remote, but...dealing with the Mexican justice system if there _were_ a shooting, etc.  I Pass.




> Adding to Slick's list, remember that as off the grid as you might seek to be, you'll need to manage and access your money.  The internet is how you do that.


Repeat, repeat...is this thing transmitting?: *there will be no internet*...*there will be no internet.* 
I'll shout it from the trees.  Visitors will be forewarned.  Emails will be set to instant forward or reply.  

Depending on the location, I will consider a solar radio, but honestly a large part of this plan is minimal outside contact.

And,.....

I won't be out there for long enough stints (especially in the beginning) to do anything other than watch my stocks rise and fall anyway.  I'd be dividing my time between there and work in Sawdy and then down the line, there and the farm in Issarn.




> From LOS/the middle east, to Alaska?  About as big of a change as one can make.


Well, to be fair:  Ohio, Michigan, West coast, Korea, Los, ME, AK.   :Wink: 

somewhere around 46 states and 37 countries slept in.  




> I've watched some of those reality shows.  Work your ass off all summer preparing and accumulating for the winter, survive the winter, next spring start repairing the damage winter did, repeat.  Ugg.


As I said in an earlier post, I'll 'work up' to a winter season, slowly.  "Be prepared," and all that jazz.   :Wink: 




> Those people are more Hollywood than backwoods, set up reality shows short on  actual reality.


Ya know I strongly considered contacting a few of those.  It must've been at least five years ago and I saw some adverts in the back of an outdoors magazine published in or targeted at AK.  It was all the rage for awhile, still hasn't died out, but...said something like:
"moving to AK, getting off the grid?  Let us help you make it a reality...on TV."

I didn't think about it long before realizing that that would be the complete and total antithesis of what I'm on about.   :Smile:

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## UrbanMan

If you have not done so, you should watch the Dick Proenneke episodes (PBS).  He essentially did what you have in mind.

Alone in the Wilderness, the story of Dick Proenneke, by Bob Swerer Productions

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## bsnub

^ You beat me to it. I have all his videos and read his book an amazing man. This man is a personal Idol of mine.

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## Norton

> NW Canada


I was born and raised in north central Canada. Way off the grid. No power, no water, no sewage and certainly no internet as it was during 1940s and 1950s. Except for staples like flour, sugar and the like all our food was via hunting, fishing, wild berries, and vegatable garden. 

Family had about 5 acres of land on a small lake. Nearest neighbor was about 5 miles away. House was not a log cabin but one built to withstand the rigors of brutal winters. Sure things have changed with all the hunting and forest regulations now in place but back then the wood needed for cooking and heating the house was obtained mostly outside our property as was fishing and hunting.

We had 3 guns. A 45 cal hand gun, a bolt action 30.06 and a double barrel 12 gauge shotgun. Also a couple hunting bows and some traps. 

Looking back it was a fantastic way of life but certainly not an easy one. 

Canada and Alaska still have plenty of wide open spaces you can purchase. Suggest you check out availability in northern Saskatchewan and Manitoba for the best property deals.

Living off the land in the wilderness can be rewarding but make sure you are near a small town where you can purchase essentials and get to medical care.

Good luck with it.

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## hick

It's funny, isn't it?

And I think this is one reason I really like forums.

What was once a lingering thought....a quiet desire has now become something more.

I can feel this plan of mine starting to materialize.  I'm scoping out storage facilities to begin packing equipment, etc.

Thanks for all of your input! and please keep it coming.  

I'll be tracking down the suggested books, vids, etc. and taking ALL into consideration as I sit up a little straighter in my chair when I browse land sales.

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## crepitas

Not sure I understand what you mean by living off the grid?

Must be a million places in the world you could just rent a beach or wilderness shack and keep your 'buying land nest egg' in case you become disillusioned  ?

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## VocalNeal

> I was born and raised in north central Canada.


Where roughly do you consider to be North Central Canada? As far west as Manitoba or not quite so far west.

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## Norton

Canadian shield. Northern Sask and Northern Man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Shield

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## hick

> Not sure I understand what you mean by living off the grid?





> Grizzly Adams


 :Wink: 





> in case you become disillusioned?


I'm already disillusioned.  Sorry for the misunderstanding,... guess I thought my previous posts on this thread would've made that clear enough

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## katie23

Hi hick, as I understand it, you have a Thai wife. Do you plan to live in this off-grid place w/ your wife? If yes, what's her view about it? Can she live w/o internet & no contact w/ her family through phone, Line or Fb? Can she live w/o a nearby mall or grocery store? Just a few questions that came to mind...  cheers & all the best!

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## hick

Heya Katie.

Yeah, she has _some_ interest.  She grew up (kinda') off-grid, so naturally her first thoughts are: "why the hell would I wanna' go back to that?"  Heh heh,...but then again, the wilderness of CAN and/or the Pacific NW intrigues her quite a bit.

We're both nature lovers.

Her main concerns don't revolve around the internet, etc...but rather more about safety.  She's interested in taking a few survival courses and firearms training first.

Her farm is set and good to go, so I do believe for the first several years (or until the cabin is up and operational), she'll be in Issan while I'm on the land.   :Wink: 

Thanks for asking about her.  :Smile:

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## UrbanMan

> I'm already disillusioned.


With all other human beings (except your wife)?

In an earlier post on this thread, you used the words, "taking a break from people", but being a hermit in middle of nowhere for months at a time seems like more than a want to "take a break".

Also, in the middle of winter featuring freezing temps, the nature you love would be rather dormant, would it not?

.

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## hick

I'm a but disillusioned with several facets of modern society, Urby.  
I cannot deny that, nor attempt to.  

My feelings are that spending more time alone, in quiet/peaceful surroundings, communing with nature, etc. is exactly what I'm missing and therefore what I want more of....how to go about getting it (something I can call my own) is (obviously) fraught with conceivable and very real dangers.

DrB0b said something to the effect of "there is no real off-grid, because you must pay taxes" and for what I'm considering, he's right of course, but off grid initially meant off the electricity/phone/water grid, so wherever that is, must be fairly to extremely remote.  
Maybe he included that part too, I don't remember exactly.  

There are other reasons...selfish reasons.  There are things I want to accomplish and I don't feel the value of true concentration and focus (or escape) whilst in the midst of modern "trappings."  Personal projects I want the time, patience and freedom to work on.  It really is about freedom.  True freedom from schedules, ringing phones, internet, appointments, jobs, etc.  
We don't have kids and neither of us want to have kids.

My wife (as I've mentioned) is partially interested.  Less interested in the beginnings and happy to wait in Saudi or Issan for me to complete the creature comforts and safety measures during my 1 month stints.

Horses are being talked of (stabled elsewhere for the harsh months).  

It's just a plan and _nothing makes the great spirit laugh harder than a man's plans._
If you can name that movie....   :Wink: 

Any number of mystical, earthian, humanistic or natural phenomena machinations could come along, blow a cloud of dust and refocus my energy and intentions elsewhere.  There's not only the personal safety issue, but also the material security issue.  IOW, as "things" stock up and equipment piles up, how can I protect it, etc.(?)

"Being a hermit" for months at a time is a goal of sorts but couldn't be fully realized until a LOT of hard work (with others) was accomplished first and I had packed away as much dinero as I felt was sufficient to stop working.

Realistically speaking, if I bought the land _this_ year...

...maybe I could live there freely for a few months/year in about 10 years.  

6-7 years at a clip and if I felt ok with paying others to do a bulk of the work.

I don't.  I want to be there (camped) for the work and learn through it all.

Beyond the cabin, barn and shed, I'll want several forms of alternative energy sources running such as a mini hydro power scheme, solar panels and wind turbines.

I told Slick "no heavy machinery" but now I'm considering the benefits of a full basement.

Second phase may include a greenhouse, indoor vegetables, aquaponics and some other interesting options and developments in self-sustainable cabins and living.

Here's a common checklist for off-gridders:

http://www.livingoffgridguide.com/wp...ff-Grid-v1.pdf

Many (not all) apply to me.

Just compiling equipment and tools, the initial agricultural set up (cultivation / gardening)...this will all take quite a bit of time.  And I won't be in any rush.  I'll just go camp there for the first couple of years.....even one season before I buy it if possible.

As I've mentioned a couple of times:  
"Wintering in the north is something I'd have to work up to in terms of preparedness."

That said, my cabin plans do include:

Insulated windows
1 Cast Iron wood burning stove & 1 fireplace
upstairs loft
A natural construction insulation such as; 'Roxul'


Some quotes, because BaitongBoy has got me constantly reading them  :Razz:   :

_The monotony and solitude of a quiet life stimulates the creative mind._ 
- Albert Einstein

_Solitude is independence._ 
- Hermann Hesse

----------


## hick

I was in touch with a Canadian off-gridder last year for a little while.

He'd check in (online) about every 4 months or so from the nearest town.

He and his wife have 50 acres in the Yukon Terr., CAN

They have something similar to this:



_“…THIS CABIN IS 14×14 WITH A FULL LOFT AND APPROXIMATELY 400 SQUARE FEET OF LIVING SPACE. DOWNSTAIRS IS KITCHEN, BATHROOM, DINING AND LIVING AREA. UPSTAIRS IS A LARGE BEDROOM AND OFFICE. THERE IS ENOUGH ROOM FOR 6 PEOPLE TO SLEEP COMFORTABLY. POWER SYSTEM IS 580 WATTS SOLAR ELECTRIC AND 400 WATTS WIND POWER WHICH POWERS A 12 VOLT FRIDGE, LIGHTS, WATER PUMP, TV’S, LAPTOP AND MANY GADGETS. HEAT SOURCE CAN BE PROPANE OR WOOD STOVE. TOILET IS COMPOSTING OR A SEPTIC TANK SYSTEM…”_ 

He liked to venture off on 2 week to 1 month hiking jaunts.

This interested me greatly and I had a lot of questions.

When he headed off, his wife would help him "close up" everything and she'd stay at a nearby ranch.  Room + board for horse grooming, cleaning, light labor, etc.

When asked, "What about all your stuff?  Anyone watching it?"

He said, "Nope.  Lots of little leaps of faith going on here."

----------


## hick

I like this builder's style:

https://www.survivalmonkey.com/threa...d-cabin.58544/

----------


## stfranalum

also, just food for thought hick...

consider saving that money and letting it grow in the bank and just backpacking...appalachian trail kinda stuff. you'd get every bit of solace you'd want. and not just trails...but summertime (when you're off) solace and to boot, you can choose new locales each year. added bonus you dont spent your hard earned cash and let it grow towards retirement. ...and still get outdoor peace of mind.

if you decide to buy, consider also buying land that will appreciate in value. florida...no thanks. in 30 years, it might be under water, literally. higher elevation places like vermont and of course the pacific nw would be good places. 

it's quite a dream. just my 2-satang, to boil down what you really want out of it...it might not be necessary to dump a load of cash into it and still end up with peace, quiet, self sufficiency and all that jazz, if you dont buy but get hardcore into adventure backpacking and whatnot. 

:-D

----------


## UrbanMan

Franny -  That ain't gonna do it for the Hick.  In addition to everything he's stated, I'm sensing he has a need to do something epic.  Define a challenge and defeat it.  Self actualization.  _Look at this damn fine thing I created in the middle of nowhere!_

Most of us have a distant goal.  Very often its tinged in fantasy.  Helps us get through the dog days of life.

----------


## SKkin

I had an internet friendship with a woman("Cosmic Rose") who lived off grid in WA state...was on her "email list" back in the advent of my internet presence(1995-early 2000s). I stated my opinion on something one day on her list and was booted from that list(probably around 2005).

So I had lost contact with her and burned bridges etc.. Checked her site the other day and found out the "Carlton Complex" fire(July 2014) had burned down their house and they had no homeowner's insurance. Bummer. She had apparently been trying to sell the property before disaster struck. I'm not sure why she was wanting to leave that lifestyle considering how she used to go on about it.

Her and her husband had obtained the property by virtue of a personal injury lawsuit her husband won. I used to tell her the same thing about taxes on property that someone else mentioned above. In the US you really never own it, you're always renting. Just try skipping those property tax payments and see what happens. She'd brag about not paying income tax and not being under the thumb of gov't. I asked do you pay property tax and do you buy gas(taxed) for your cars...how about sales taxes? So she was not as "free" as she made herself out to be.

btw...They had 20 acres. Also she was into much of the same thing you are voicing here in this thread jimbo...or what you're stating your intentions are for this potential off-grid property.

Anywho here's a pic of her former place("Hugheston Landing"):





and a quote from: Hugheston Landing Cosmics Off Grid Home Port on what happened:




> *This is what happened to our family... our two businesses... and Hugheston Landing.
> On July 17th 2014 our home burnt to the ground. We had no homeowners insurance.
>  This is why we are no longer living in the Methow Valley. One month later... 
>  a mudslide took out the road and our driveway while the valley suffered from flooding. One year later... 
> the valley was struck again by a massive wildfire throughout the entire county. (Okanogan County) 
> Stay tuned for updates on our whereabouts.*
> 
> 
> Click on the following link to read about the 2014 events *Trial By Fire  The Methow Valley's Summer of Disaster*
> ...


Just thought I'd throw this in here...as food for thought. She has more info at that first link on how they powered their place.

Why did a militant off-gridder decide to give it up? If we were still on good terms I'd email her and ask her...

Moral of her story...? Insurance is important?? When you're off-gridding out in nature big fucking fires are a bitch???

https://issuu.com/omakchronicle/docs/firestorm_2014

----------


## hick

Hmmm,... 

Yes, this is _all_ good and solid - 

Ya'll said it -> food-for-thought, fellers.  

Thank you.   :Smile: 

Gotta' pay those taxes, for sure.  And skipping insurance is just plain asking for it.



Sobering (read as: realistic) article here:

Getting Off-Grid: The Crucial First Steps In Building Your New Homestead | Off The Grid News

_Without a comprehensive plan, many homesteaders meet with the frustration of relocating poorly planned resources and causing more work for themselves in the long run.
If this wasn’t done prior to purchasing land, it is essential to spend time in the county courthouse where the property is located.  Every possible detail of the property should be clearly understood before the first shovel overturns the earth. Legal boundaries must be clear and recorded in the land survey and/or plat map. Zoning restrictions and any building permit requirements should be clear to the homesteader, as well as legally recorded rights to minerals and water. The key in this step is to eliminate any possible legal troubles in the future progression of the homestead.  

When these concerns have been adequately researched and addressed, the next step is to begin the plan for the home and outbuildings. Utilities such as Google Earth, websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov, most online map software and your property survey are great references for identifying potential building sites. If the land already has buildings it may be impractical to relocate them, but it is good to know any possible troubles such as flood or fire damage that could be expected due to their location. Orientation with the track of the sun is an integral part of an off-grid solar solution so keep this in mind when plotting the location of solar-powered structures._




Beyond equipment and home maintenance, I reckon my (main) continual or guaranteed payments will be:

Property taxes
Flights back and forth to Thighland
health, life and property insurance
winter stabling the horses
satellite phone payments

----------


## hick

> consider saving that money and letting it grow in the bank


Well,... market in my case but I get you.





> Most of us have a distant goal.  Very often its tinged in fantasy.  Helps us get through the dog days of life.


Can't argue with that one.   :Wink: 

Nothing happens unless first we dream. 
- Carl Sandburg

----------


## hick

> Moral of the story: 
> Insurance is important because when you're "off-gridding" out there, big-fucking, cataclysmic things can happen.


How about the above?

----------


## hick

Here's what my wife may be envisioning:

Year 1:



Year 10



My dreams are bit more in this range:



If you're gonna' dream....make em' big.   :Wink:

----------


## bsnub

^ That top photo is Dick Proenneke he was mentioned before and if you haven't already you really need to read his book and watch his video's. Here is a short clip;




His cabin was preserved as a landmark by the national forest service.

----------


## Little Chuchok

South Island in NZ. Plenty of trout/deer/goats to feed you.Very very nice pinot noir in central otago to help things along.

Mate of mine bought 8000 acres an hours drive out of Queenstown. Totally off the grid, but it does have it's own mini hydro power station . Can get there by car, but need 4x4 when it snows in the winter. Cost him USD2 mil. It was a bargin though as the owner wanted a quick sale and he had the cash. 


Plenty of blocks of land around the 50 - 100 acres available down there.

----------


## hick

Thank you gentlemen.   :Smile:

----------


## hick

> South Island in NZ.


Amazing scenery, topography, etc.  

Saw a show recently about some cracker doing a Maori initiation down there.  
Looked really intense.

Can't help but think of these homes:



*This amazing off-grid hobbit house cost less than $5,000 to build*

----------


## hick



----------


## hick

heh

----------


## UrbanMan

BOB DYLAN LYRICS - Gotta Serve Somebody

No one is free.  Bob Dylan knows.




> You may be a construction worker working on a home
> You may be living in a mansion or you might live in a dome
> You might own guns and you might even own tanks
> You might be somebody's landlord you might even own banks.
> 
> But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes 
> You're gonna have to serve somebody,
> Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
> But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

----------


## hick

Zeroing in on 6 acres in AK nearby Lake Clark Natl. park, couple miles inland from Cook Inlet.

Really, that's not as much land as I was hoping but am requesting more info.

Like that area a lot!

----------


## hick

> Bob knows.


Bob does know.  And thanks to him, Tom and another Bob - I have no illusions about my disillusionment.   :Razz:

----------


## Norton

> Like that area a lot!


Alaska's Remote Properties LLC, Anchorage, Alaska

----------


## katie23

All the best on your ventures, hick. 

I asked abt your wife, if she could live that way, bcos I think that is (and she is) important too, no?  :Smile:  I've read your responses (will read the other links when I've more time), and I think at this point in time, I couldn't live off grid. Can't imagine my close female friends in that situation, either. We all grew up somewhat 'on-grid' and I need thecloseness of malls, shops, people, etc to keep me sane! Too much isolation and I might end up like that guy in The Shining. But this is for now. Don't know what would my viewpt in my 50s or 60s. Cheers!

----------


## rickschoppers

Alaska is a whole different ball game. It is about as extreme as you can get when it comes to survival and going off the grid. You better have all your ducks in a row and if you enjoy challenges, Alaska is definitely it.

----------


## Slick

^ agreed. Alaska is serious business. 

FYI HughesNet works there too  :Smile:   :Smile: 

But yeah that's hardcore. 

Have you looked into reloading ammunition? Personally I would stick to basic ammunition that's easily attainable. 9mm .45 12ga .203 5.56 and .308

----------


## hick

It's boiled down to where it started.

Alaska or possibly NW CAN.

Oregon, WA state and Montana still have cards.

Wyoming, Maine, NH, lesser so.

Anything outside N.Amer. is out because (although it puts more strain on my wallet) I just cannot do it to my family.

"_Hey guys, I'm buying some land on the S island of New Zealand and will be dividing my time between there and Issan from now on.  Have a nice life_."

I can't do it.

Much rather, "Saudi - FLa - AK - Issan" or some version of that.






> I asked abt your wife, if she could live that way, bcos I think that is (and she is) important too, no?


Of COURSE she is and I'll say it again:  

Thanks for asking about her, that's very sweet of you.  

So sweet in fact, I'll try to post our pics for you if photoFLUKbucket is having a cooperative day.   :Smile: 

All the best to you too.  <big smile from both of us>


We talked very soberly about all of this only last night as she can see I'm getting more serious about it and considering a real move.

Our timeline is looking (roughly) like this:

2017/18:  purchase

2018:  I go there and visit the county courthouse for my zoning papers, permits, etc. Get it surveyed properly, do various permafrost, water line and elevation checks.  Place posts/signs of ownership, no fences.  

2019:  In alone, camp for a month and start falling timber. (that'd be my first month alone in the wilderness since I was 25 y/o.  (!)

(At this point I may consider hiring a crew to erect (I said it) a cabin in my absence.  This will depend strongly on my feeling and experiences in the nearby town,...locals etc.

2020:  I go it alone, and either get to work on my cabin (with a crew) or 

....there are just too many contingencies to go on from there....



Basically I told my wife that it will take me around 5-7 years before I'll want to stop working AND 
before she'll probably feel comfortable enough to go to AK.

She said (happily):  _Ok, good plan - I'll wait in Issan then_.   :Razz: 

She has plenty do there any way.  Her mom and dad keep unbelievably busy.

They've got around 15 rai and side-jobs galore.  Plus her dad builds houses and she assists.

Anyways, point is katie,...don't worry about her.  She's good.  
Excited to see me make a long held dream a reality.  :Wink: 






> Have you looked into reloading ammunition?


Probably go with the 12 gauge shotgun w/ a 10 round mag.  
(The 20 is too bulky, imo.)

For handguns, I like the Smith & Wesson 629 Backpacker.  It's a snub nosed .44 mag.  Good for long walks.  

Otherwise, I may take your .45 suggestion as some models have a really nice fit and are fairly compact, but I'm just a bit partial to .44s, so...

The last time I was on the range (oddly) my accuracy was a bit higher with a .44, but they weren't mine.  These finer details have to be decided on the range and at the gun store.

That said, I'm pretty sold on either of these:


All-Stainless Desert Eagles in .357 Mag and .44 Mag Announced

I prefer the 30.06 over the .308. as I've got more wilderness experience with it.  

It's that standard, or rather thin line of stopping power versus range versus accuracy.

All that said, I'm well out of practice.  

I'll take a _refresher_ firearms use, operations and safety course while I'm considering the purchases more closely _and_ before I head out in it.

I've got plenty of time to compare and consider since I'll be spending some worthwhile time on the ranges and talking to pros, etc.   :Smile: 


Let's talk about fly rods and the best trees for cabin building.  Haha.  Less grisly of a topic.

I had some really grizzly pussy once.   :Razz:

----------


## hick

> Originally Posted by hick
> 
> Like that area a lot!
> 
> 
> Alaska's Remote Properties LLC, Anchorage, Alaska


Thanks Norton.

Yeah, I was all hot and bothered about this one last night:

Alaska's Remote Properties LLC, Anchorage, Alaska


But slept on it and...there's no way.  Not enough acreage for starters.


I do like how it's in the isolated/generally free areas of permafrost.  Well, depending on whose grid you trust.
But based on their zoning maps, you could end up with pretty much anyone or anything as a neighbor and within spittin' distance.

I'll hold out for something snug against water on one side and state land on the other...


At any rate, that site is very comprehensive.  Depending on their customer service, I may go with them on something else.

----------


## bsnub

> .203









> That said, I'm pretty sold on either of these


Desert Eagles are not suitable for Alaska. Firstly they are unreliable wherever you are as the actions are prone to jamming but its much worse in cold weather. I would know as I owned a .44 magnum DE for many years. It was just a showpiece and not to be depended on. Most of my friends who live and or work in Alaska depend on the Ruger Blackhawk. That is what you want to protect yourself from all the alpha predators up there. 

I would never depend on a Desert Eagle. Never.

Blackhawk is very common sidearm in Alaska;

----------


## Norton

> I'll hold out for something snug against water on one side and state land on the other


Just one example of many. All sorts of acerage available in US and Canada. Frankly going completely off grid not advised. There are plenty of large acerage plots which have electricity and often natural gas hookups. Places where you can do all the stuff you want in near total isolation. Trust me. Having spent part of my youth off grid, it is a hard life. Your dream house above ain't going to happen 100% of grid. Give it some thought.

----------


## hick

Thanks Norton.  

Rest assured, I'll be giving it all lots of thought and taking
everything and everyone's insights on board.   :Wink: 

With all I've said regarding wanting to do-it-myself, etc.  
- I remain open to partial off-grid and even existing structures.

It's just going to boil down to what I decide on at that time.

----------


## hick

> I owned a .44 magnum DE for many years. It was just a showpiece and not to be depended on. Most of my friends who live and or work in Alaska depend on the Ruger Blackhawk. That is what you want to protect yourself from all the alpha predators up there.


Noted *in bold* on my permanent list.

I'll be sure to get proper training with this weapon.

Thank you bsnub.

I've been checking out Dick Proenneke.   :Wink:

----------


## Slick

> Originally Posted by Slick
> .203


Supposed to be .223 I was on phone ffs.

You can shoot .223 Remington through a rifle chambered for 5.56 NATO. 

You can not shoot a 5.56 through a rifle chambered for .223 

That pic I had up earlier had a Colt LE6920 AR15 with Eotech sight and thats a 5.56 NATO rifle and can also shoot .223 no problem.

This is the kind of thing that should be thought about when in the bush. The rifle shoots 2 different, easily attainable and reloadable rounds. One for combat/defence and another for ranged hunting. 

Both are very good for both hunting and defense. 

The .308 is also an excellent round and has partner in the NATO category - the 7.62×51mm. Marine Corps still use this in the M40A5 & M40A4 'sniper rifle' and if its good for drilling people then you bet it will work for wildlife.

Anyway all this .44 mag/desert eagle stuff... 

After having shot hundreds of thousands of rounds in my lifetime... That .44 is the LAST piece I would want around. Same with that Blackhawk. 

Anyway just my .02

----------


## hick

And it's appreciated!

----------


## hick

> I asked abt your wife, if she could live that way, bcos...


 I'm your new....sweet - soul - sista'





She says, "_thanks for asking about me_."   :Wink:

----------


## UrbanMan

> (that'd be my first month alone in the wilderness since I was 25 y/o. (!)


Have you considered doing another month now, _before_ purchasing?  Lots of things that were easily doable at age 25, are not so easy a couple decades later.




> Basically I told my wife that it will take me around 5-7 years before I'll want to stop working AND 
> before she'll probably feel comfortable enough to go to AK.
> 
> She said (happily): Ok, good plan - I'll wait in Issan then.


So, she's got 5-7 years to pray for change ...

----------


## hick

> Have you considered doing another month now, _before_ purchasing?


Oh yes.  Ideally I would be spending a week or three on said property before purchase. 

I'm probably not going to have time....ya know...to do that with anything more than 3 properties, so I'll need to narrow it down as well as I can from here.




> So, she's got 5-7 years to pray for change ...


Yeah, you got it, haha.  She'll never have to do anything she's not comfortable with, etc.

Worse case scenario is we'd spend some months apart each year.  I'm sure we could both deal with that.  

May even get a visa for her dad and have him come over and help me build.  That'd be pretty sweet.

He's worked in Korea, Norway and Madagascar.  Alaska (or CAN) would be a good one to add to his list.   :Wink:

----------


## hick

I'm not interested in that 5.92 acreage anymore, but the wheels are defo in motion.





> Alaska's Remote Properties LLC, Anchorage, Alaska


_Hello there,
I hope you're having a good day.
After searching around quite a bit for off-grid land for sale, I came
across your advertisement for a Bear Lake property.
Yentna-Susitna Drainage
ASLS 87-191  -  Tract A,  apr. 5.92 acres
I had some questions, but firstly:
Is that still available?
Kind regards,
Hick Redneck Ohioan_
------
Yes it is. We are out of the office til Tuesday. In car you hear back from us sooner after today. 
Best,
Barbara or Bernie Vockner
Remote Properties LLC
remote@remoteproperties.com
Alaska's Remote Property LLC, Anchorage, Alaska
907-277-4608

----------


## katie23

^very nice looking couple.  :Smile:  Thnx 4 the pic. I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

----------


## hick

Sounds like I got the right guy to know:

Hi Hick;

Not at all a bother sending a lengthy email, at least I know what you want.  It is hard to find any free standing parcels with no neighbors.  Reason for that is, it is just how land came of being in Alaska when it became statehood.


Land was sold by the state or then could be staked by people, but it was mostly in 5 acre parcels and in a designated area.  So you have literally lumps or clumps of properties and then miles and miles of nothing again.


It is truly a rare find and brings an absolute premium when there is a parcel with no neighbors, as that usually was staked before statehood and most of those parcels usually go from father to son or from friend to friend.  And under many circumstances either the state or the federal government (National Park Service) bought those people out at prices that you and I could not compete with. I know for sure not me.


On the flip side is that a lot of people who own those parcels from the state now are getting up in age and are selling. The reason is mainly, they got too old or never had the money to improve on the land or the wife may have told him, “honey if you want to live out there, go right ahead.”  I let you figure the rest.


I know the property and the location saw the movie and the book of the lifestyle you want to experience.  As a matter of fact a friend of mine owns a 2½ acre parcel, that property now is in the middle of the Park and he turned a $1.2M down from the Park.


Be realistic and think about what it costs you to get in to some of those remote areas.  Figure an airplane floats, skis, etc. is around $500.- to $800.- per hour and covers about a 100 miles.  80-100 miles of Anchorage is not all that far, so that flight would cost you an hour in, an hour back, about $1,400.- you will need certain items flown in. A Beaver type aircraft is about $800.- an hour and carries about 1200 lbs.  I let you add it up how many pounds you are going to have to fly in.  From the heavy wood stove, tools, roofing, etc. And keep in mind most of our trees up here, although somewhat usable for a building project are usually best for fire wood only. They are not like the California Redwoods, as the harsher clima here makes them grow more twisted and crooked.


I know a lot of people believe in solar power, but it works just marginal up here.  During the short day light hour days, middle of November to aboiut middle of February, when you need lights the most there is not enough sunshine to keep your batteries going. Of course, in the summer months you have plenty of sunshine, but you need the lights the least as it is daylight until midnight.


There is no problem getting a septic or well done, but I hope you have a strong back, as you will be the digger for both.  Although an outhouse with a 50 gallon barrel and holes in it works the best. While real septic systems rarely work as the frost goes down 10’.


No, you can not just call your friendly well driller or backhoe operator, how do they get there?


I see you like to be next to a water source and filtering water is not a big deal any more, as a $30.- one micron filter that catches 99.95 of giardia and other, will do the job. You can have a water tank in your attic as this way it will not freeze in the winter time while you are there.


A 12 volt water pump like they have in motorhomes will pump the water and pressurizes enough to have an On Demand propane hot water heater.  A little 2,000 watt Honda generator will run a skill saw and drill and power a whole bunch of LED light bulbs and only sips a little bit of fuel.


 A lot of the areas have little or no property taxes and you do not need a permit in most places for doing what ever you want (within legal limitations). No cat house  :Smile: 


Perma frost is something you have to deal with as it is almost everywhere.


For hunting and fishing, as long as you are on a lake or creek of any size you will have fish.  And moose, bear, etc. you find them everywhere, including in the cities.


Again, in those outlying areas there is no zoning, all the parcels have been surveyed, although sometimes it takes a bit of doing to find the survey stakes.  You own all the rights to the land and what is on it. You can drill a well for septic or an outhouse as long as it is a 100’ away from the water and the dwelling 75’ from the water and no closer then 25’ to the property line.


The State and Federal Government own the subsurface rights.


You should take a look at the property that is in our Yentna Susitna River section, at the top. There is your free standing parcel with it’s own private runway plus the acreage and the owner is famous or infamous depending upon how you look at it.  As he was literally living with the bears.  I believe Google it under, “Living with the Bears in Alaska” and he will come up.


By the way, all the paperwork can be done any more by email or Fed Ex as long as you are close to a notary.


By the way I always suggest to maybe pick 2 or 3 properties out and then make a little vacation trip up here, check it out and see for yourself, as many times we hear from people they had no idea how remote, remote really is.  Or they thought they liked the parcel but after looking at it, they did not even want to be buried there.  But ultimately it will be your choice.  And your survival skills will come in real handy.


I hope this helps you a bit.  Keep an eye on our web site and of course, if anything comes that looks like would suite your needs I will let you know.

Best,

Bernie

PS:  Wife and I own 3 remote cabins (fly in only). We built them ourselves and understand the work it takes, the logistics and of course, also how much it costs.

----------


## bsnub

^ Interesting read.




> he was literally living with the bears.


He was talking about Timothy Treadwell. Werner Herzog made a doc about him called "Grizzly Man". He filmed himself with the bears pretty much all the time. His death was recorded on camera as he and his girlfriend was being eaten by one of the bears. Pretty gnarly way to go but it ultimately was darwins law.

----------


## rickschoppers

^^
Wonder if he would be willing to sell one of his remote cabins, and for how much. I had thought about having a summer base in Alaska since I have relatives living there. Thailand would be my winter base. Never pulled the trigger, yet.

----------


## hick

> ^^
> Wonder if he would be willing to sell one of his remote cabins, and for how much. I had thought about having a summer base in Alaska since I have relatives living there. Thailand would be my winter base. Never pulled the trigger, yet.


Well, we're nearly in the same place, then - minus the family part.

Too bad we didn't know each other better, could consider splitting a parcel.   :Razz: 


Anyways, I kinda' doubt he wants to sell, rick.  

I mean, he'd just list it on his existing site, I'd think.

Prolly saving it for family or friends.

But then again, never hurts to ask, eh?

----------


## rickschoppers

You are probably right about family and friends since it is what he wrote about the disposition of most land like that in Alaska. I can respect that.

----------


## hick

> Be realistic and think about what it costs you to get in to some of those remote areas.  Figure an airplane floats, skis, etc. is around $500.- to $800.- per hour and covers about a 100 miles.  80-100 miles of Anchorage is not all that far, so that flight would cost you an hour in, an hour back, about $1,400.- you will need certain items flown in. A Beaver type aircraft is about $800.- an hour and carries about 1200 lbs.  I let you add it up how many pounds you are going to have to fly in.  From the heavy wood stove, tools, roofing, etc.


Welp,...thinking back when this plan was hatched in a Bangkok condo hovering over a computer screen at 3AM.....the pilot's license and plane _was_ in the mix then...

Seems like no other way to rightfully do it, proper-like, really.


Thinking of adding 30k + 8k + Miscellaneous expenses and ...maintenance and storage fees into the budget.

Why not?




It'd fokin' be completely rude not to.   :Razz:

----------


## UrbanMan

Now you need a plane?  This simple life you seek seems awfully complicated.

----------


## hick

I don't_ need_ one.  I want one.  

There's a difference.   :Razz:

----------


## hick

I see this...



I think....  Oh fuck yeah.    :Smile: 

Why not?  You may only live once, etc.

----------


## UrbanMan

> I see this...


Simple little house there in the background.  To allow communing with nature, of course.

----------


## hick

I'm not sure what or why exactly you wanna' pick at me Urby but,
life is long and minds will change.

It'll happen again and again.  You can bet on that.



where the bush pilots measure Cessna dick.    :Razz: 

What is Alaska's favorite all around bush plane for a family?

----------


## UrbanMan

Trying to be a little funny, and also understand it.  I meet someone who did something unorthodox, or is planning to, I'm the sort who ponders their actions.  Interesting to figure out what makes people tick.  

Some of what this is all about is the idea of escaping the complications of city life (right?) and living more simply.  Yet when a list/inventory of all things needed is made, its far from simple.  These perceptions formulated by me, sitting on my possibly flawed perch.

----------


## hick

_Fairy dust_ aka Fair enough.

My main objective remains to have my own space to take a break from the teeming hordes of humanity, yes.

But, as you can see (from the above email reply) that it may not be possible or plausible in Alaska, at least.


This changed the game for me:

_"Land was sold by the state or then could be staked by people, but it was mostly in 5 acre parcels and in a designated area. So you have literally lumps or clumps of properties and then miles and miles of nothing again."

"It is truly a rare find and brings an absolute premium when there is a parcel with no neighbors..."_


Now I'm looking at these 2 (main) options (for AK):

1) Get as remote as possible with "absentee" neighbors and/or backed up against state land with enough acreage, so that (hopefully) if someone _did_ move in, I couldn't really see or hear them.  (or smell them).
Transport to and fro would either be:
-my plane  (_this is badassery defined, imo_.)
-my boat


2) Get something "out there" but reachable by auto.
That would save a LOT of hassle.



or.....



3) <sings> _Oh Can-a-da_

"_Hi Hick,

In reply to your email below.  There are no restrictions for foreign ownership of purchasing land in BC.   Some provinces in Canada may have some restrictions.   We only sell land in British Columbia.     We have sold many properties over the years to people in the USA and international.

The BC government did in impose an extra tax to foreign ownership but this is on residential property and is only in the metro Vancouver city. The rest of British  Columbia is treated the same for ownership (no restrictions or penalties) whether you are a resident Canada or not.

Please let us know if we can provide you with any additional information on our properties Home - Welcome to NIHO Land & Cattle Company Ltd._"



PS:  I've given up on NZ and other_ international_ locations, cuz I want to loop family visits to Florida and NC (and a storage unit in FL) into this...

----------


## rickschoppers

This all sounds great and even I have thought about going off the grid even more than I am now but, one thing has kept me from doing it in the past. A moderate to severe injury, or a health issue that would need regular attention. Either one of these could be life threatening if you are out in the bush with nobody around and they would also put an end to living completely off the grid. I am not tryng to be negative, only realistic.

----------


## hick

^ Yes, Rick.  

It's realistic and practical thinking, that.

Never know what'll happen.

If taking the remoteness on as a lifestyle (I'd say) the best one can do is be as equipped and trained as possible for medical emergencies.





> I'm the sort who ponders their actions.


No permanence is ours; we are a wave
That flows to fit whatever form it finds 

― Hermann Hesse, The Glass Bead Game

Heh

----------


## bsnub

Living off grid doesn't require one to live way out in the Alaskan frontier. I live in Washington and there are plenty of places accessible by road that are very isolated. The Okanagan is a great example. I have a couple of friends who live up there on acreage and both are off grid.

----------


## rickschoppers

Yes, lots of land in WA . I lived on the Olympic peninsula and many times I would be driving up to Sekiu to do some salmon fishing and see someone emerge from the woods on foot. I never really knew if they were homeless or just living off the grid. A bit wet for me, but different strokes.

----------


## hick

> Olympic peninsula  
> driving up to Sekiu 
> see someone emerge from the woods on foot.


If it was around 94 - 95, it could've been me.   :Razz:

----------


## rickschoppers

I lived there 90-95, so possibly so. :Smile: 

It's a small, small world after all.

----------


## hick

Isn't that sumthin?

Can't find any Olympic pix at the mo-mo, but these were before & after that time:

Fairly near to Redwoods National/State Park


Backcountry, Redwoods, CA


Chignik Bay, Alaska










What a dream it all was.  

My comrade and I went camping for 3 months up and down the coastline (starting at the Redwoods and ending at Olympic).

And that was just ONE stint (based out of Eugene, OR).

I returned to Olympic several times and once spent nearly 3 weeks on the coastline (and slight interior) alone.

----------


## hick

Then the kimchi called:





Then Thighland:



Finally Al Saud:


And the desert trekking began


And still going on.  I'm geared up and heading out tomorrow for around 18 hours in the desert about 25 clicks south of Mecca.   :Wink:

----------


## UrbanMan

> My main objective remains to have my own space to take a break from the teeming hordes of humanity, yes.


Since solitude is what you are after, the movie "The Shining" comes to mind (you personally posted Jack's pic earlier in this thread).  

Wouldn't being the winter caretaker of a remote seasonal hotel, provide plenty of solitude?  And all you have to do is show up and do a bit of maintenance here and there.

Also, rich types from the coasts have ranches in places like Montana and Wyoming. Most aren't there in winter, they must need people to take care of the properties.  Maybe figure out a way to get into that.

A plus is you don't have to spend money, and might even be paid some.

Should be easy to skip the Jack-style going crazy part - just make sure no one was murdered in the past at whatever site you land at.

----------


## hick

Not that kind of solitude at all, Urby.

Thanks for the ideas, but...watching over other people's properties is just not in the cards for me.

Wilderness or bust.   :Wink:

----------


## bsnub

> I lived on the Olympic peninsula and many times I would be driving up to Sekiu to do some salmon fishing and see someone emerge from the woods on foot.


I grew up camping out there. I had my spot up north of lake Wynoochee just up from the mouth of the river. It was fifty miles from the highway twenty five miles of logging roads. Also hiked all through the rain forest.

----------


## UrbanMan

> Wilderness or bust.


Your life, your goals.  

Just last night, I happened to end up talking to a guy who is all about the outdoors, and also a bit of pessimist in terms of where the world is heading (funny how often these two things go hand in hand).

He mentioned he's attended a few "survival expos" and they tend to attract off-the-grid enthusiasts.  Sounds like something that would be interesting to you, as they address how to function in primitive conditions.

----------


## Slick

Fun pics though  :Smile:

----------


## hick

> Originally Posted by hick
> 
> Wilderness or bust.
> 
> 
> Sounds like something that would be interesting to you, as they address how to function in primitive conditions.


Yeah Urby,

I'm into survival courses, but not really big _whoopdeedos_.  

Crowds of nature lovers (really, crowds - period) put me off a bit, so 'expo' = count me out, tbh.


Last year I was searching endlessly for a survival course that fit my needs and (more of a challenge) my schedule.

The only reputable option I could come up with was run by "Cody" of the TV series 'Dual Survival.'  He runs a course into the Arizona backcountry out of his home.

It's intriguing to me but at the same time, why train in the desert if you want to live in sloppy weather?  I just did a short stint in the desert (as mentioned) and it was pretty awesome, but there's something about that bleakness that doesn't draw me as a mainstay.  
(Of course, AZ has more temperate climes in some portions of the state, but it's still quite arid compared to the PNW.  Up there, if you can't build and maintain a fire in the wind and rain, you might as well dig a grave.)

Anyways, Cody is so hardcore primitive that he goes barefoot in all terrain.  
Frig that!  If I got boots, I'll be wearing them.

But yeah, my hands are pretty versed with primitive fire-making, emergency shelters, a little bit of trapping (need more of that and tool making) and some other goodies that are only (to me anyway) useful in an all out emergency.  But, hey...if I'm in a "puddle jumper" piloting or as a passenger, all out emergencies are a distinct possibility.

Did you ever see the movie: "The Edge?"  Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin get lost in the AK wilderness.  It all starts by their small aircraft flying through a migration of birds.  I looked into it already, and bird migration patterns play a large role in most AK bush pilots' flight plans, as of course they should.  

Meanwhile, still looking for that right course (program) and trainer as I need a refresher and my wife wants to go through 101, eventually.  I suppose an expo could indeed reveal that to one such as I, so there's that.

----------


## hick

> Fun pics though


Thanks man.  I put my entire adult life up there,...I guess I should leave the forum now.   :Razz:

----------


## bsnub

> Meanwhile, still looking for that right course


Some of the best bush pilot training actually happens in Seattle especially float planes.

----------


## hick

> Originally Posted by hick
> 
>  Meanwhile, still looking for that right course
> 
> 
> Some of the best bush pilot training actually happens in Seattle especially float planes.


Right bsnub and thanks for that.  I was talking more about wilderness survival courses in the interim. 

For the pilot training, I might as well go right to the source and choose a school in or near Anchorage, I reckon.  Even further down the line, I'll buy my plane there as well.

But who knows?  The training itself would suffice in your region and I do love it there.

----------


## rickschoppers

Hick, one thing you have not touched on is your age. I would not push things out too far before you start living your dream. If you hit 50 before spending some reasonable time out in the bush, you may be too late. During your 50s, you will notice a slowdown and reduction in energy. By the 60s, you will be on the way down which could severely interfere with your off grid skills and packing out a deer or any other large game will become extremely difficult compared to your 30s and 40s.

I guess what I am trying to say is, do it sooner than later to get the satisfaction you are looking for.

----------


## hick

^ With you rick!   tick-tock   :Razz:

----------


## UrbanMan

> Did you ever see the movie: "The Edge?" Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin get lost in the AK wilderness. It all starts by their small aircraft flying through a migration of birds. I looked into it already, and bird migration patterns play a large role in most AK bush pilots' flight plans, as of course they should.


I've watched it several times.  Baldwin was his best playing a sociopath.  Miami Blues was another Baldwin movie where he played that type of guy really well, I highly recommend seeing it if you have not already done so.  GlenGarry Glen Ross obviously on the list, too.

----------


## UrbanMan

> I put my entire adult life up there


Brave of you.  Too many disturbed types here for me to consider doing anything even remotely similar.

----------


## hick

Meh.  What are they gonna' do?

Get in my photobucket!!??  Oh noooo....they'll see more pictures and stuff.   :Razz:

----------


## UrbanMan

> What are they gonna' do?


Risk is very low, agreed.  Though crazy types can sometimes be creative.




> I put my entire adult life up there,


I thought you were chubby at one point?

----------


## hick

> Originally Posted by hick
> 
>  I put my entire adult life up there,
> 
> 
> I thought you were chubby at one point?


"Entire" was kind of a flat joke.

But thank you for bringing the conversation around to my girth.   :Razz: 

I was fairly flabbed out for 2 years (my 3rd stint in Korea).  Two wives and all, ya know...I was...too well taken care of.  

And then there's....right now.  I'm pretty tubby, but, I've got my excuses.  

Finishing up an MA and 1/3 of the way through another = I'm logging some major sitting time.  Should be balancing it more, I know.  Also, taking piano really seriously and the wifey "_Wow_" cooks like nobody's business.

Getting back in shape and building strength is also on the list of 'things to do,' for this off-grid and/or wilderness stuff.

I've still got 5 + years before I start really getting "in it" and will start with the fitness + survival aspects as soon as I finish this MA.

And will have to pass a medical to take on a private piloting license if I stay with that route.

----------


## hick

AK trip looking very feasible for July/August this year.

May loop in NW Yukon Terr. as well.

Ride a few bush planes, talk to some pilot schools, see some land for sale.

Was 50/50 chance for this year, now about 70/30...

----------


## stfranalum

i had a close friend (he died a few years back) who did a survival course in alaska. he told a story about how the weather was so bad, they couldnt air drop supplies in. the whole group had to lie down in their shelters and be still as to not spend an ounce of energy. good times!!

----------


## UrbanMan

^  Gimme the grid!

----------


## rickschoppers

I'd rather not tempt fate more than it is tempted already, thank you.

----------


## cyrille

> i had a close friend (he died a few years back) who did a survival course in alaska. he told a story about how the weather was so bad, they couldnt air drop supplies in. the whole group had to lie down in their shelters and be still as to not spend an ounce of energy. good times!!


And with a thai / lao wife?

----------


## rickschoppers

^
She wouldn't last a week, especially if given the choice to go back home and eat noodles while hubby is eating roots and berrys.

Good luck Hick.

----------


## stfranalum

> And with a thai / lao wife?


lol no he was single. this was a few years back. 2000's. 

he was a _very_ adventurous guy. said the alaska survival course was quite intense and at times, scary.


...i could imagine a thai wife doing quite well with the 'sitting around perfectly still and doing nothing' though.

----------


## cyrille

no, i mean hick's wife.

sorry - i can see my response was confusingly worded.

and i post as someone who has heard all the cliches under the sun about being married to a thai...as i'm sure you have too.

----------


## rickschoppers

> Heya Katie.
> 
> Yeah, she has _some_ interest.  She grew up (kinda') off-grid, so naturally her first thoughts are: "why the hell would I wanna' go back to that?"  Heh heh,...but then again, the wilderness of CAN and/or the Pacific NW intrigues her quite a bit.
> 
> We're both nature lovers.
> 
> Her main concerns don't revolve around the internet, etc...but rather more about safety.  She's interested in taking a few survival courses and firearms training first.
> 
> Her farm is set and good to go, so I do believe for the first several years (or until the cabin is up and operational), she'll be in Issan while I'm on the land.  
> ...


Neverna said there was a Thai wife, and this was Hick's response. Maybe I misunderstood.

----------


## stfranalum

> no, i mean hick's wife.


never met her. but i'd assume that she wouldn't have the appetite for the rugged individualism that hick is looking for. 

this kinda thing is a personal pursuit i reckon. it's hard to convince someone else who isnt taking the initiative to go there themselves and expect them to be happy at the same time. agreeing with a spouse is one thing, and going along for the ride for a while...i just dont know how sustainable that is (thai or anybody). and the whole bit of this is, sustaining it through hardship and whatnot. 

i mentioned some time back on this thread to not buy land but go adventure around. he keeps his hard earned savings, gets the personal peace of mind by himself, can see a gillion different places and in the end, goes back to her family land with money and a fresh mind. 

the whole buying lots of shit and learning to use tools, while just having gotten a masters...it's the kind of riddled mind that one gets while in the dunes! LOL i know. i've been here since july with no holiday and im about ready to sign up for that Mars colony expedition. i know my wife sure wants me to!

----------


## cyrille

well he was married to a thai about three months ago according to a thread on af, rick.

by his own account i guess it's fair to say he gets around...  :Smile: 

i'm reading this thread on a 'for conversation' basis myself. and on that basis i must say i've found it very interesting.

to us brits it's amazing of course that vast tracts of land can be had for such paltry sums.

----------


## hick

We've been married for (going on) 3 years, Cy. 

Been a couple for 7.   :Wink:

----------


## cyrille

Cool.

So, a thai in the alaskan wilderness...

(glad slick talked you into the internet  :Wink: )

----------


## UrbanMan

> the whole buying lots of shit and learning to use tools, while just having gotten a masters..


Fill your mind with civilization's ideas, then in short order turn around and tell civilization to eff off.  An eccentric path to say the very least.

But plenty of eccentrics here.

----------


## hick

> while just having gotten a masters..


2 masters

And the teaching one is a plan C.    :Wink: 

I think what some of you are not really following is the master plan.

6 months (or more) in Issan and the rest in AK.

For the times (years) that she wants to join me in AK,...I wouldn't be choosing the winter months.

Anyways, I expect lots of reluctance from anyone that doesn't share this particular dream.

Meanwhile, I've contacted bush pilot schools in Anchorage for more info.
Looked deeper into the intricacies of learning, etc.  Looks easy, just timely.

I'm narrowed down to 3 parcels in AK and two in British Columbia and will try to visit them all this summer.

They all feature (at least) running water (creek and/or river), lake front, 40+ acres, heavily wooded, all zoning/building permits.

You may think I have Saudiitis, Fran but I've been planning this for over ten years, buddy.   :Wink:

----------


## hick

> tell civilization to eff off.


For a few months out of the year...at least for the first 5-8 years.  <eye roll>

----------


## cyrille

hardly rules saudiitis out that you've been planning it for ten years...more like an advanced case.

----------


## hick

> hardly rules saudiitis out that you've been planning it for ten years...


The idea was spawned when I was living and working in Bangkok.  How bout' that?  :Razz:

----------


## rickschoppers

Yes, 6 months (April-September) in Alaska and  (October to March) in Isaan makes sence and I am still thinking about that, but not off the grid.

----------


## cyrille

I think what concerns me ( :Wink: ) is the way you seem to be dragging your wife into this.

Wasn't following you to ksa enough of a leap of faith?

----------


## hick

> Yes, 6 months (April-September) in Alaska and  (October to March) in Isaan makes sence and I am still thinking about that, but not off the grid.


Maybe (maybe) after ten years of building on, adding to, etc. the two of us could actually stay a full 6 months on the property I want to build.  

Until then, I'm envisioning "Wow" (my wife) staying for June-Aug. 
And me...probably longer, it'll depend on many factors.

----------


## hick

> I think what concerns me () is the way you seem to be dragging your wife into this.
> 
> Wasn't following you to ksa enough of a leap of faith?


Your concern is sincerely touching.  She's not being dragged into anything, Cy.  I'm nothing like that.  She's a free-agent and she knows it.

She can come and go from Saudi as she pleases.  She's in Issarn right now as a matter o fact.  

This AK thing is all mine.  She's welcome any time and wants to go, one summer after I've smoothed some things out.

Also, her father (lots of experience with house building) and Wow are thicker then thieves, the two of them.  He is interested in renting out the farm for a season or two and accompanying me to start the build.  Heh.  That'd be pretty cool.

----------


## stfranalum

> to us brits it's amazing of course that vast tracts of land can be had for such paltry sums.


nice plots of land with rivers and views can be pricey. there are loads of acres of crap land to be had though. i would suspect hick wants something he can actually live off of. it will cost a pretty penny.

i just interviewed a guy who is living off the grid and wants to get back to civilization...to riyadh lol. but i think it can cost more than some think, and this guy, looking to stock up on cash. so you dont run up a tab going to starbucks being away from everywhere, but water pumps cost money as do repairs, parts, and tools. and phones. and trips to get things. and the whole set up. i mean lets face it, hick's no grizzly adams. it's going to be quite a haul doing all that when it's said and done. pray for good health, because a busted knee or god forbid anything else sets you back big time. 

there's a reason why civilization is convenient. we live longer. 

but i get the peace he has in mind. i envy it, i really do. i just think the cost will be tremendous.

----------


## hick

Of course, cost is one of the major factors.

Initial costs:

Land 50 - $100k USD  

Many factors at play with this cost (obviously)
[owners need, financing options, water, view, access, latitude, standing timber, etc.]

Cabin + additional buildings + hydro, solar and wind set ups = practically any number over $15k could go here.  It's entirely up to the building plans, complications and who does it.

My "budgeted" cost for building is hovering around 50 - $60k right now and that's based on calculations made across a board of forum posters, actual off-gridders and realtors I've communicated directly with.  That's the figure I feel I can get by on (comfortably enough) initially.

Of course factors (again) are at play.  
I.E., If the land had road or reasonable boat accessibility (both I'm still considering), I'd be open to buying a log cabin kit (could even have it put together), which lowers tool costs, but raises labor costs.
Obviously, doing it all on your own is cheaper and much, much more strenuous as well as being more prone to hiccups and holdups.

So, we're now at $150,000 (on the high end) for plot of land and buildings.

Although, I'm most interested in building the cabin myself over a considerable amount of time and by hand.

https://homesteading.com/build-log-cabin-by-hand/

Issue is, I don't _know_ that this is feasible.  Most accounts I've read indicate the importance of having the roof on by season's end.  So, the time clock is_ on_ from the word "go," other than the initial one year drying off the fallen and stripped timber.  I need to look further into this.  I've gotten some conflicting feedback thus far.

There are no property taxes on remote land in AK (outside the buroughs).

Bush Plane (licensing, purchase fuel, insurance, maintenance, storage):

$105k the first year and $10k per year after.

265k total.  And (of course) that is _only_ the initial set up and is not counting the great 'unknowns,' problems that sprout up and take on dimensions, if I were building and then injured (as you pointed out), health insurance (I plan to remain covered by my workplace for the next 7 <maybe 10> years), travel to AK from Saud and/or Thai, etc. etc.



_Expect to pay $50k to $100k for your land and $50 to $100k for your home INCLUDING the solar and wind power system. That’s just the way it is. Labor and materials and equipment. Those are your next biggest expenses._
https://offgridworld.com/how-much-do...o-go-off-grid/
_
 I've got a nice homestead going but it took me 4 plus years of looking, a modest amount of cash (less than $200k) and a lot of sweat fixing the place up._ 
The Alaska Homestead: One Way To Do It - Survivalist Forum

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by hick
> 
> 
> Heya Katie.
> 
> Yeah, she has _some_ interest.  She grew up (kinda') off-grid, so naturally her first thoughts are: "why the hell would I wanna' go back to that?"  Heh heh,...but then again, the wilderness of CAN and/or the Pacific NW intrigues her quite a bit.
> 
> We're both nature lovers.
> 
> ...


Really? I haven't posted in this thread until now, so I think you are confusing me with somebody else.  :Smile:

----------


## hick

So,...u married, Nev?    :Razz:

----------


## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by hick
> ...


Sorry Neverna, it was Katie23 who posted about Hick's Thai wife. You ladies all post the same.  :Smile:

----------


## Neverna

Thank you, ka.  :Smile:

----------


## hick

> i mean lets face it, hick's no grizzly adams.


I couldn't compare myself to "_the greatest_," but I've completed two certified survival courses, logged a full month off grid alone once and 2 / 3 weekers a handful of other times and...oh yeah! was an Eagle scout.   :Razz: 

Want to take and/or refresh:

Wilderness survival + primitive fire making in wetlands
Refresh my first aid, self-first aid and accident prevention knowledge bases
Firearms safety & training
Edible plants/mushrooms, regional foraging (poisonous identification)

..there's more.  drawing a blank

Oh yeah,

small craft engine repair and maintenance
topographical map reading / compass use
star navigation
trap construction/setting

----------


## UrbanMan

> AK trip looking very feasible for July/August this year.
> 
> May loop in NW Yukon Terr. as well.
> 
> Ride a few bush planes, talk to some pilot schools, see some land for sale.
> 
> Was 50/50 chance for this year, now about 70/30...


It's cool that you are taking some real action on this.  Plenty of dreamers never get past dreaming.

----------


## hick

Ya know, that company mentioned a couple of pages back.

Bernie.

He is a SOLID realtor from what I can tell.  Not just after a hot sale.  

He's informative and realistic.  

He said, "If you had any idea how many people buy online or by phone...then get up here and realize they hate being remote.  You HAVE TO come and feel things out first.  Make sure this is for you before proceeding."

Valuable advice from a guy who owns three very remote properties.

----------


## hick

> She wouldn't last a week, especially if given the choice to go back home and eat noodles while hubby is eating roots and berrys.


That's a pretty big assumption and basically buys straight into the cliches (thx Cy) that riddle this and other thai fora regarding both Thai men and women.

I won't be asking, persuading or otherwise demanding that she heads out into the blue yonder at all or if and when she's ready, without a very firm grasp on preparation, training and some experience.

But the woman is already 1/2 Tomboy having grown up on a farm and is only (rightfully) concerned about safety issues.  She also comes from an extremely hard-working family.  They do not lounge about unless they've worked for it earlier in the day.  

Her father is a complete loner in the village who basically shuns the never ending social gatherings and prefers his own company over most.  She gets a majority of her traits from him (when compared to Momma).  

Also, if you look around you, there are many other Thai women accomplishing much bigger feats than staying in a wilderness cabin for a few months.  
One Thai gal just summited Everest last year, for one.


https://thaiwomenlivingabroad.com/


From Nakhon Ratchasima to Barrow, AK - Khun Somsri is a Thai living full time in an extreme climate.


...and I'm not even suggesting full time living nor that far North.

----------


## hick

My kind of classroom  :Razz: 

_Course Goals

The purpose of these courses is to train the student to be able to survive a wide array of outdoor emergencies, and allow them to test their skills while being fully immersed in a rugged/austere outdoor environment. There will be suffering, it will challenge every bit of you both physically and mentally, but suffering is not the point of the course- it is a feature. Some students will quit, but it is what is going on inside their brain- not their body- that causes them to do so. Training will be diverse and intensive. Successful students will walk away with a greater sense of outdoor & emergency competence, and awareness of human perseverance. This kind of training is not for everyone._

https://www.californiasurvivaltraini...a-field-course

----------


## rickschoppers

> Ya know, that company mentioned a couple of pages back.
> 
> Bernie.
> 
> He is a SOLID realtor from what I can tell.  Not just after a hot sale.  
> 
> He's informative and realistic.  
> 
> He said, "If you had any idea how many people buy online or by phone...then get up here and realize they hate being remote.  You HAVE TO come and feel things out first.  Make sure this is for you before proceeding."
> ...


Kinda like selling everything back home, moving to Thailand without staying here several months prior to the move, and then wind up hating it without an exit plan.

----------


## hick

The purest of blinders.

----------


## UrbanMan

> Kinda like selling everything back home, moving to Thailand without staying here several months prior to the move, and then wind up hating it without an exit plan.


I'm curious rick ... I believe you mentioned that you were focused on Mexico, but then changed your mind - was it the crime?  Just the crime?  If not that, what was it?  Mexico is huge, hard to believe that if a person in general likes the culture, they can't find a sweet spot.

Also, lots of people are turned off about many things LOS.  The mindlessness.  The hot and humidity.   How far away it is from civilization excluding Oz.  What is it that you like about the place?  What makes it better than other options?

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## rickschoppers

Urban, I had fished at the tip of Baja California for 35 years, so I knew the entire area very well. My plan was to retire down in a small town named Los Barriles near the east cape at the tip of Baja. Without getting into too much technical talk, that area where the Sea of Cortez and the Pacific Ocean meet has one of the largest concentrations of plankton in the world. Where there is plankton, there are large quantities of bait fish and the game fish always follow the bait fish. My plan also included having a large trailer and diesel truck, which I had, and could put them under a palapa and fish to my heart's content. 

When the cartels started causing problems south of the border, that was the first warning sign. Then prices started to escalate for the gringo which caused me to pay attention to the economy and cost of living down in Mexico. The days of living all week on  $10 and drinking beer for  $3.80 a case were over. I still loved to fish, so I overlooked these changes. The deciding factor for me was the whole attitude down in the tip of Baja changed. The sleepy little fishing villages like Cabo San Lucas and San Jose del Cabo became nothing but huge hotels and condos. The mystique was gone. Along with that, the police began hassling the tourists and fishermen. In 2001 I made the decision not to retire to Baja California.

I looked at many other areas in Mexico and central America including Belize which became my number one choice. Since I had worked in Saudi Arabia in the mid 1980s, I started vacationing in Thailand. The beaches were much nicer than in Mexico, the dollar seemed to stretch farther than in Mexico, the infrastructure was much better, the people and culture was more interesting to me and the women were much more beautiful.

Thailand seemed to have a fairly large expat population and access to good food and decent healthcare was available. Mexico's food is great, but the healthcare sucks. I took many variables into consideration before deciding to retire here. Yes, hot and humid, but so is southern Mexico and central America. The mindlessness exists in both countries, but I chalk that up to not really caring. Not a bad way of looking at things if you think about it. 

Are there other places I could have retired? Absolutely. Do I have any regrets for choosing Thailand as a place to retire? Not really. Would I have changed anything? I don't think so other than living closer to the beach.

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## UrbanMan

Thank you very much Rick.  I appreciate the thoughts.

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## hick

Wow, the "tip" of Baja.  

What a geographically stimulating place to call your stomping grounds.   :Smile: 

Wonder how many posters here have been to Tierra Del Fuego?

Wife & I are planning a package cruise/tour to Antarctica within the next 5 years...

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## hick

> It's cool that you are taking some real action on this.  Plenty of dreamers never get past dreaming.


Gettin' more real, Urb.

Plan to drop the wifey off in Florida to say with my fam while I head in for 3 weeks.

Bought some CAT gear today and having some other things sent to FL.  Did you know they have insect repellent infused clothing?  It lasts for something like 40 washes (!)  

Hardest part is deciding between the survival course vs private guide vs solo or some combination.  From what I can tell (oddly enough) the rangers in the survival course carry only bear spray (no firearms).

Wish I could locate a _Native American_ private guide who would head out into it for at least a 10 day stretch.

Plans and research continue.

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## fishlocker

I'll admit I skimmed after the 2nd page. Loneliness isolation and Madness is what The Shining was about. I can get that it can happen in a deserted island, or a populace of people. However guessing and beliving you are still of sound mind and body I would suggest stepping back from the edge and thinking how could the reprise be beneficial in monetary terms. 

Ok I'm  saying if you want that "Rush" of wilderness  get the best seeds you can sow and spend a few months in a National park out west. It is hunter and hunted, chalk that up and write your book!

You might get alot of hits out of it or end up in the Pokey.
Either way it would be the ride of your life.

If You you know the rules and hydroponics and pick the right state,legality ect, you may just stay there and "watch the grass grow."

Have another hit of fresh air.

I do not condone this nor would I ever have, really. It just seems to be the "in" thing and have heard of successes and failures. Know the rules, then play the game.

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## fishlocker

I must stress that if you don't know the track don't run your horse. In that I'm saying the rules of the game here are changing. With that an industry is blooming. Good bad, risk, reward?  I see potential but must state I only get second hand news of the state of these affairs. I just hear the talk.

See your own state for details.

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## hick

I like you fish.  I'm not gonna' follow your advice.  But I DO like your style.   :Smile:

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## fishlocker

Thanks for the style complement. As for taking the advice I can't blame you there, most here also don't listen to....................the fish.

Hey, on the bright side every now and then I will get "greened." Good luck on your adventure, stay safe and keep your head about you. Peace out, the fish.

Oh and pretty please please please do a picture thread.  We all seem to love them, especially those that never get out of thier mothers basement.  Just don't let the fact that they won't "green" you for you effort deter you from doing what you love in your life and sharing it with the rest of us normal people.  Wow all that comming from you guessed it......the fish.

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## hick

Niiiiiiiiice   :Razz: 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fishlocker again.

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## UrbanMan

> Loneliness isolation and Madness is what The Shining was about.


Also very much about previous murders at the hotel, which was possibly located on an Indian burial ground.  Telepathy.  Visions.




> it can happen in a deserted island, or a populace of people.


If you are in a populace, the ability to walk down the street and see others, or have a one minute chat with a waitress, cashier or bartender, can be invaluable.  

If you are in remote Alaska, guess you have to hope a reindeer or wolf wanders by.   Btw, I am serious.  In the PBS series featuring Dick Proenneke, it is telling that he consistently got a little happy whenever there was wildlife nearby.

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## blue

> Bought some CAT gear today


whats that ?

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## hick

They make some pretty durable outdoor wear.

CAT or Carhartt for clothing and REI for gear....for this cowboy anyway.

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## SKkin

> whats that ?


here's some real Cat gear...



 :sexy:

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## hick



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## hick

Dept. of Fish & Game did a research bit recently and found that:

Of X number of bear aggressions in AK...

when bear spray was used (vs firearms), the bear sprayers racked up 0 injuries or deaths, while firearms users had a 30% chance of being injured and a 12.5% chance of being killed.

Seems those bullets really piss the bears off whereas the bear spray makes em' turn tail more often.

Also, road flares are used by quite a large number of rangers these days.  The brightness, smell....maybe sound really turns them away, apparently.

So,...I'm thinking bell on the bag, bear spray (2), air horn, road flares (2) and a sling with a shorty 12 gauge pump shotgun, first round bird shot followed by slugs.

The odds are really low.   Like shark attacks, you've got a better chance of dying in your car on the way to the gun shop, but hey.

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## hick

To a bunch of float plane guys:

_Book in advance or...
or on the fly?
Greetings,
I'm planning to arrive in Anchorage on July 19th.
I'll have about 3 weeks worth and would like to scope out some remote land for sale.
My question is:
With a fairly flexible schedule, would I (most likely) be able to get a flight on the same day, next day or two days (even) if I'm hanging around...
or
No way, Jose' it's high season and all the pilots will be busy, busy?
I'm not against itineraries but would also like a little freedom.
PS:  My plans are to stay in and around the Lake Clark area.
Thanks for any info.!
Best,
Hick_

---
1 - That should not be a problem.
2 - We would be able to get you on a flight on the same day, or the next day.
3 -  July is peak season but depending on where you are you should be able to charter something. Better yet there are several people who specialize in selling remote properties and they own and operate their own aircraft to access and show such properties. Myself I would contact and work with one of them. 



GAME ON!   :Smile:

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## hick

Kool!

My older brother is 'in' on the Alaska trip this July.

Extra pair of eyes and ears AND I can run faster than him!   :Razz: 

He's a 'partial stay' so I can work up to going loner after the 1st expedition ends and he goes home.




70 miles at easy walk speed = 28 hours of walking

But I'll say 35

 = 5.83 miles per day to do it in 6 days.

Register with the rangers before we hit it and have a boat or a plane arrive a day or two after our ETA.  

 :bananaman: 


(_I don't mind talking to myself.  Wife's been away and I'm not sociable.  Getting used to it._)   :Razz:

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## UrbanMan

Recently read that talking to yourself can be healthy.  As long as it does not turn into a heated argument.

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## hick

:Smile:   I'll keep that in mind.



_......shut up!_   :Sad:

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## Neverna

> 70 miles at easy walk speed = 28 hours of walking
> 
> But I'll say 35
> 
>  = 5.83 miles per day to do it in 6 days.


There's something not right with either the maths or the units.  :Smile: 

Or are you only going to walk half of the 70 miles?

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## hick

I gotta' sign up for an algebra class.   :Sad:  

My maths blow.

Anyways, I think the walking plan will lessen.

Brother can only stay about 6 days and that region is very mountainous, so maybe we'll cover 35 miles.  One small lake to another.

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## UrbanMan

Seems to me being good at math would be quite important in being off the grid.  Calculations with respect to food and other vital resources, as examples.

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## hick

Agreed and I posted those walking numbers in haste.

I can (hopefully obviously) do simple calculations correctly if I take my time and double check.

The algebra course (or courses) will be preparation for flight school.   :Wink:

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## hick

That long hike isn't feasible due to glacial runoff i.e. silt, freezing river fords, etc.

Good to have solid contacts up there to advise me.

Will fly into the region, make base camp and head out on excursions while checking out the plot(s).

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## hick

Base camp could look something like this:

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## UrbanMan

If you build this, I'll come visit.  We'll play bubble hockey, good times.

https://www.tetongravity.com/story/s...hite-mountains

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## hick

Sorry Urby, I grew up on a _real_ foosball table.  Steel balls, steel players, etc.

 :Razz:

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## cyrille

^^Pretty metrosexual look there.

Do you have a manbag, beard and vampire weekend cd?

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## UrbanMan

> manbag


A proper man bag beats a neon-colored backpack.

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## hick

This baby just arrived and is waiting for me in Florida.

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## UrbanMan

Suddenly my man bag does seem a tad metrosexual.

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## Farangrakthai

> Suddenly my *man bag* does seem a tad metrosexual.


;-)

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## UrbanMan

^  That's more loser than metrosexual.  _Hey look at my very interesting t-shirt, it shows I'm a thinker who loves nature._

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## hick

Hello FRT and welcome to my off-grid thread.

I think you may be from the Pacific NW, no?

Do you have any experience in the backwoods?
Burning moonshine, threatening bears or otherwise?

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## Farangrakthai

> Do you have any experience in the backwoods?


yep, in high school and college spent many weekends at cabins in the woods and on mountains (skiing).

though, to your question, for a challenge (to ourselves) in high school, a friend and i had his mother drop us off in the woods and with compasses, lighters, fishing equipment:  we survived a couple days and made it to a highway at the other end of the forest and hitchhiked home. 




> threatening bears or otherwise?


one summer worked as a dishwasher, busser and then waiter (making more than $100 tips/night) in yellowstone park.  

worked 5 days/week, ending with a morning shift, so had 3 day weekends hiking around the park.

 had to take precautions and would see bears from a distance (they wanted to avoid us, too).

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## hick

Yeah, I did some back country hike/camping in Yellowstone with this Korean-American chick who picked me up hitchhiking....having just returned from Korea (surreal stuff).

Anyways, it was off-season the lady ranger replying to my question about what to do if a bear sticks his head in the tent:

"_Just hit it with your flashlight right on the nose_."   :Razz: 

So,...2 nights in she gets her period.

(the first night we heard, in explicit detail, a pack of wolves rip the throat out of a deer or elk....it was fucking eerie.)

We followed all the guidelines and kept camp very clean.

Heard the nose of a bear as it 'padded' through camp one night, and I could see her (grizzly sow) out the tent window.  She reared up on two legs and sniffed hard at our hanging bag.

The next AM I was up early to fly fish and the sow was about 50 yards down river, catching fish.  :Wink:

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## Farangrakthai

> The next AM I was up early to fly fish and the sow was about 50 yards down river, catching fish.


 :Bandit:

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## katie23

^that looks like a badass backpack, hick.  :Very Happy: 

I have no beef against men w/ manbags. They serve a purpose during travelling. My male friends all use them, and they're not gay. To my knowledge.  :Wink:

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## hick

> they're not gay.


Well,....they probably have fits of happiness from time to time.   :Razz:

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## hick

Just got the most important addition to my ensemble of equipment and stuff

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## hick

First 2 weeks look a little sumpin' likea dis:



Some campin, hikin,' ATVin,' float plane, halibut fishing, even a rental car.

Still got a week more to play with.

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## blue

Are the campsites where you are looking at off grid land ?

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## SKkin

> Just got the most important addition to my ensemble of equipment and stuff


You'll be in the wilderness, couldn't you just pee on a tree?  :Smile:

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## hick

> Are the campsites where you are looking at off grid land ?


Completely.  They're not established campsites at all.  I've gotten permission to "squat" on properties (acreage) that are for sale.   :Wink: 






> You'll be in the wilderness, couldn't you just pee on a tree?


That thing ain't for peeing, Eso.  

It's for spraying my arsehole clean after leaving a deposit.   :Razz:

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## hick

update:

You can see the 'proposed' campsites, some methods of getting there, acreage amounts, prices, etc.
(gold stars indicate plots for sale that I'm interested in)  I probably won't be able to see them all.

This is a fairly ambitious plan that weather (or other complications) could knock the shit out of...

The drive from Anchorage to Homer is only 4.5 hours.  North to Denali Natl. park (where Mt. Mckinley is) 
is right around 4 hours as well. 





Slick might be happy to know that whilst on this journey of sorts, trying to locate the property I really feel right about, 
I'll be online.   :Razz:    Satt phone is looking necessary too, as well as a signal flare gun.

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## SKkin

> It's for spraying my arsehole clean after leaving a deposit.


Oh I see...go native, use leaves. Just be careful which ones. lol!

btw, Good luck on your quest.  :Beerchug:

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## hick

> Originally Posted by hick
> 
> It's for spraying my arsehole clean after leaving a deposit.
> 
> 
> Oh I see...go native, use leaves. Just be careful which ones. lol!
> 
> btw, Good luck on your quest.


I did go native...in Asia, long time ago.  We spray.   :Razz: 


Thanks man.   :Wink:

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## hick

*Bernie:*_ Thanks Hick for the itinerary!

But you better learn how to ride a moose as I don’t know anyone who rents horses out, other then on guided trips in certain areas.  You may be able to rent an ATV, I believe there is a place in Wasilla who rents them.  But I heard they are about $200.- a day._



*Hick:* _Moose riding 101:

Strategically drop from tree onto idle moose below.

Scenario 1:  Land on rack and die.
Scenario 2: Miss moose entirely, break legs and get trampled to death
Scenario 3: Hit target, hold on for dear life and dismount somewhere in Canada to face immigration charges._ 



*Bernie:* _You are going to fit right in up here_   :Razz:

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## hick

Pretty much talking to myself at this point, but hey....might as well get used to it.


Now then.  Guns.

I never pictured myself dealing with American Airlines and transporting firearms but here it is: 

as rental options are non-existent, probably illegal and I need some range time, anyway.


So,... putting this here for easy check-backs:


_
Traveling with firearms and ammunition

Laws on the possession of firearms differ between states and countries. Please check the requirements of your destination before you travel. Contact Reservations for international travel requirements and if any portion of your trip is operated by another carrier.



Requirements
Within the U.S., you can only travel with firearms and ammunition, including pellet and BB guns, as checked baggage if you’re over 18 years old. You must check them with an agent at check-in and declare that you’re traveling with firearms and ammunition.



Firearms must be:

Unloaded
In a hard-sided container where the firearm is totally inaccessible, or with locks on each end (like a rifle case)
Ammunition must be:

In the original packaging from the manufacturer or in packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition (made of fiber, wood or metal), with a maximum of 11 pounds (5 kgs) per container or customer. Ammunition is not accepted in magazines or clips.


Allowance

There is no limit to the number of items you can carry in your in rifle, shotgun or pistol case, but baggage and oversize / overweight charges may apply.

Oversize and overweight baggage charges_ 















Prolly go with a Ka-bar as last line of defense.

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## SKkin

> I never pictured myself dealing with American Airlines and transporting firearms but here it is:


Would it be more feasible to buy what you need when you arrive...or at least for your first destination? 

As for the bear thing, didn't you say your brother was accompanying you and that you could outrun him?  :Wink:

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## hick

> Originally Posted by hick
> 
> I never pictured myself dealing with American Airlines and transporting firearms but here it is:
> 
> 
> Would it be more feasible to buy what you need when you arrive...or at least for your first destination? 
> 
> As for the bear thing, didn't you say your brother was accompanying you and that you could outrun him?



Well....Eso, ya know.  He's got two kids n stuff.


IF we surprise or otherwise upset a bear, he'll reach for the bear spray and I'll lower the barrel and we'll see what happens with all of that.

Hopefully it won't come down but I can skin it - if I have to...



It's not more feasible because I don't want to hang around Anchorage for 2 days in order to get my firing range hours in.  I really need a couple of days to reacquaint myself and bond a little with the gun.  I'll have that time in FL.   :Wink: 

And Cape Coral just got a brand new range.  The instructors look pretty hip.

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## hick

Infamous in Homer, Alaska - "The Cowboy" owns some land in a remote region I'm looking at.

Working on getting a night or two out in it accompanying him and a couple of his favorite steeds.

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## SKkin

> accompanying him and a couple of his favorite steeds.


Is that Brokeback Mountain in the background?

 :tieme:

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## hick

Better wear my buttplug.   :Razz:

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## hick

Full day of Halibut and King Salmon fishing booked.

(gotta' take a break from land hunting at some point)





Oh...the mammaries   :Razz: 




>

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## hick

Check this out Eso:

(PM from an AK based forum):

_"Let me know if I can help.  There are a lot of Alaskans on this forum who are helpful.  Backwoods Alaskan is the exception.  He thinks the state is too crowded.  Another good book is The Man From Sheep Mountain, but it's had to find as it's out of print.   I live in that general vicinity.  My wife is from Thailand, by the way.

She is from the south eastern part of Thailand from a place near Rayong. We are going off grid for the next 10 days so internet connection will be spotty depending on where we set up. So if I don't reply this is why. 

Lots of Thai people in the Anchorage/Mat-Su area and in Fairbanks. There are even some in the Glennallen and Tok area. There is a Thai lunch truck set up in Healy next to the 49th State Brewing company. Anchorage has a good number of Thai, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc with shops."_

So, naturally I had to check:

ASIAN Massage Therapy, Anchorage, AK
Customer Review:
"Nana is so friendly and helpful.  "I will take care of you," is what she says.  She does.  I will go back."

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## hick

Me:  Look honey, I can get a Thai massage after rolling down the mountain!

Wife:  Oh good!  I was worried about that.


 :Razz:

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## SKkin

> Backwoods Alaskan is the exception. He thinks the state is too crowded. Another good book is The Man From Sheep Mountain, but it's had to find as it's out of print.


Is that referring to "The Cowboy" up above?

So how soon you gonna be up there...days, months?

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## hick

> Is that referring to "The Cowboy" up above?
> 
> So how soon you gonna be up there...days, months?


No, the Cowboy would never 'forum.'  That was in reference to some ass-fuck that told me to stay home.

I've got 3 weeks.  The 1st week w/ my brother and 2 weeks solo.

EDIT:  We both arrive in Anchorage on July 18th.  Catch a float plane out to the wild the following morning.

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## bsnub

edit...

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## hick

Ok, facebook isn't all bad.

Just located a chick I went to HS with up there.

And....she's got a horse ranch.   :Smile:

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## SKkin

> EDIT: We both arrive in Anchorage on July 18th. Catch a float plane out to the wild the following morning.


Good luck hunting for a place and keep your knees in the breeze...bro.  :Wink:

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## hick

knees in the breeze   got it   thanks  :Wink:

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## hick

Poor Kid  :Sad: 

If you take to running through habitat with no plan, defense or awareness, bad things may happen.



_A 16-year-old runner in a Bird Ridge mountain race was killed by a black bear he apparently encountered while descending the trail Sunday, Alaska State Troopers and the race director said.

The victim was identified by troopers as Patrick Cooper of Anchorage.

A Chugach State Park ranger shot the bear in the face, but it ran away. Rangers and the Alaska Department of Fish and Game were still looking for the animal Sunday night on the slope overlooking Turnagain Arm southeast of Anchorage.

Cooper was a participant in the juniors division of the Robert Spurr Memorial Hill Climb, said race director Brad Precosky. The close-knit Alaska mountain running community is in shock at the fatal mauling, he said.

"This is the worst thing that could happen," he said.
_
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2017...hased-by-bear/

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