#  >  > Travellers Tales in Thailand and Asia >  >  > Laos Forum >  >  > Laos Questions >  >  Vietnam or Laos - Advice Needed

## chitown

I am seriously thinking of relocating to Laos for a year or so or maybe Vietnam. Just need a change of scenery. Probably Laos. I am not sure of anything yet, so don't hold me to it.  :Smile: 

What are the pros and cons of these two places?
What is the cost of rent and living? Do not need to be in the center of Vientiane  or HMC or anything - just a bit outside the main parts.
Also, what have been your experiences in Laos and Vietnam?

I thought to post this in the Laos forum, but "*Vietnam, Burma and Laos Travel Forum* Dedicated to Vietnam, Burma and Laos travel trips and vacations"

It would not be a trip and not a traveler's tale, so mods if I was wrong, then move it!!

Thanks everyone......

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## chinthee

Chi, I'm going to take a look around the Savannakhet  city and province in Laos (across the Mekong from Mukdahan on the Thai side) on a driving trip after the 22nd pissup in Korat.  

I'm also looking at some strange business opportunities there.  As far as Vientiane, everything I've heard is that is the most palatable place for farangs without a huge culture shock.

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## dirtydog

> so mods if I was wrong, then move it!!


You wasn't wrong, they are not the forums for questions, but tales and adventures.

Got to admit I had planned on leaving this year as my son is now in need of college education, I had in mind Penang for a couple of years or however long it takes to educate brats these days, really aint no point in him getting a job in Thailand, but now we got him signed up with Thai Austrian college, so I got a couple or more years to go  :Sad:

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## chitown

I will send you an email in a few minutes  :Smile:

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## stroller

Yeah, Vientiane is similar to a provincial Thai capital with a limited array of Western 'luxuries' to be had, other places I've been to have their charm for a few days of relaxation and sightseeing.

Depends what your requirements are - forget cheesy pizzas, burgers and fast internet outside Vientiane for starters.

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## chitown

^ I would probably be in Vientiane or HMC if anywhere, so hope the internet is up to par with TRUE  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I actually prefer the European food they have in Vientiane. My grandparents moved from Frankfurt to Chicago in 1951 and I was raised on a German diet. I also like French and English food. Of course I can make my own pizza and greasy burgers if I want them!  :Smile:

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## Texpat

Despite living within a mile of Laos and about 15K from Vientiene, I've only been there four or five times. My wife's granny (mom's side) lives there with all her aunties and uncles. There's a Ajarn Forum retired US mil named Pootaw who used to live there, I assume he still does. Might consider giving him a PM.

Let me know where you settle down so I can come visit when the fur flies.  :Smile:

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## chinthee

Vientiane and HCM City are definitely the two most westernized cities in your choices.  I've spent time in both.  Vientiane is maybe a little more attractive if you have a Thai wife or gf.  Vientiane is not easy for visas.  Not as easy as Thailand, which tells a lot.  Vietnam, not sure.

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## stroller

> I actually prefer the European food they have in Vientiane.


Mostly French, actually, and some Italian.

Another drawback would be gov regulations, if you are thinking of doing some sort of business there, or run your mouth in public - it's a so-called Socialist state run by a few families and laws in Thailand are crystal clear by comparison.

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## chinthee

^Stroller, you need to think outside the box.  Who said anything about doing business there legally?  Well, you do need to be very quiet....

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## sabang

I'm planning on checking out Mukdahan later this year. Close to Laos, and probably a bit of growth to come there with the recent bridge across the Mekhong.
Vientianne seemed a decent place, but I reckon it would feel pretty small after a while. Some good French food, for sure, and theres also a vaguely TexMex style place in the bar area near the river.

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## chinthee

^Yes, Mukdahan has the new 2nd Friendship Bridge.  I forecast lots of action happening there and in Savannakhet in the next few years, especially given the ongoing transport with Vietnam.  

An undiscovered jewel.  I'll not say more.

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## dirtydog

> Another drawback would be gov regulations, if you are thinking of doing some sort of business there, or run your mouth in public - it's a so-called Socialist state run by a few families and laws in Thailand are crystal clear by comparison.


strollers dark negative tv attitude coming out now, *don't go there, it is dangerous, they make you do visa runs, it is evil.*

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## stroller

In some ways, it's easier than Thailand, but you need to know what you're in for, is all. One is much more at the mercy of the bureaucrats, apparently.

If one is prepared to take risks, or just hang out with nothing to lose, go ahead.

I rather like the place.

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## dirtydog

I think most people that are willing to move to Thailand have proved they are willing to take risks stroller.

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## Texpat

Never a truer statement on TD. 

Green on the way.

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## stroller

Laos is in a different league than Thailand is what I am saying.

Looking forward to reports from a guinea pig making the move.  :Very Happy:

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## chinthee

^Well, good buddy, I ain't no guinea pig as I always make money when I go into a dodgy place.  I think I might do it because I like my chances.

That's just me.  Mr. risky, dodgy, you gonna get screwed in these places guy...  Want to get a piece of the action?

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## Texpat

Yeah, I have to agree with Stroller. If you (we) have trouble adjusting to Thailand, Laos is like a nice waterboarding session.

I spent a week in the Asian Pavillion Hotel. Calling down for extra towels was like trying to get Congress to pass a legislative declaration of war. Took two hours, twelve stamps, three supervisors and a DNA swab. Seriously, Laos is far worse than Thailand when it comes to beuracratic (mao) crap. If the shit got ugly, I could hop in 48 hours. But it wouldn't be pretty.

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## stroller

I know folks who've done well there, who says you will get "screwed"?

Just trying to be helpful to someone who asked questions and doesn't know much about the place, moving there to live is different from border-hopping for some buzniss.

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## Marmite the Dog

Have you considered Phnom Penh? It's a great little city, with many conveniences and it is a piece of cake to get a visa for. Also, the food is miles better than what you get in Bangkok.

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## chinthee

You know, to me, the most interesting part of this thread is the attitude of members.  Most are trying to offer positive suggestions on a normal topic.

This thread was done on TV, and drew so many vile responses and charges of "loser, you have to leave Thailand because you can't cut it." etc...

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## Texpat

We're just better than them.  :Smile: 

What is TV? transvestite?

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## dirtydog

> You know, to me, the most interesting part of this thread is the attitude of members. Most are trying to offer positive suggestions on a normal topic.


There are many more countries out there than just Thailand and people generally can choose where they want to live  :Smile:

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## Texpat

But I think CT and CT (whoa, wait a sec :Smile: ) bring up a good point. 

Even if you think riding out the storm is a good idea, wouldn't a nearby safehave be a second option? I've thought about this but not too deeply. It could be a last second split-discision for me, but for those in Pats or Puke-et, not so easy at the moment.

What is your future if your world gets turned upside down?

I'm of the opinion that there will be little to no change. But I've been quite wrong on other issues since.

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## chinthee

Ok, let's set this straight.  I'm CT, and Chitown is Chi.

I am very open to spending a few years in Laos making big money helping to turn it into a higher tech place than it is now.

The US Dollar slide will have some big effects for me and others, and I will take my dollars elsewhere if needed.

My world will never be turned upside down because I'm always ahead of the curve.  :Smile:

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## Texpat

Um, you an me both.

I wouldn't hesitate to go north.

PM if you're interested.  :Smile:

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## chinthee

^Will do.  Can you speak Lao yet?  I have a few phrases, but it's a pain in the ass language mostly.

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## dirtydog

> Most are trying to offer positive suggestions on a normal topic.


I think you will also find that most that have replied to the thread actually live in Thailand as well, not many 2 week tourists have replied, I think that makes a difference  :Smile:

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## dirtydog

> Can you speak Lao yet?


Vientiane they all speak Thai anyway, no problems there.

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## chinthee

> Originally Posted by chinthee
> 
> Can you speak Lao yet?
> 
> 
> Vientiane they all speak Thai anyway, no problems there.


Yes, I had no problems in Vientiane with Thai.  I'll report back later this month about Savannakhet and deeper in Laos.  From my understanding, many do not speak or understand Thai, but the languages are close enough to allow for this.

We'll see....  I've been playing with Lao and it is quite different from Thai.

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## Mr Earl

Seemed to me the wealth being generated in Laos was coming from out outside the country; NGOs and ordinance disposal operations.
I also noted the large number of kids going to schools. Seems like a they're all dressed up and educated without anywhere to go or anything to do.
I'm sure some smart foker with the right government connections can make something happen.

I'd say if a person wanted a real change of scenery from Thailand I'd recommend a stay up in Phongsali.(brush up on your Mandarin)

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## Mr Earl

They watch Thai tv on satellite so one can flounder around in thai most everywhere in Laos. French is useful also with older people.

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## dirtydog

^why would you want to say voulez vous couchez avec moi to old women, hmmm, wonder how good my French is these days  :Sad:

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## Mr Earl

Places like Vang Vieng are swarming with cheap ass stinky frog tourists. I didn't fancy talking to them much either.

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## Butterfly

Laos is a shithole, but Vietiane is nice, nice French wine duty free there

I have seen the place changed a lot, quite busy these days, old French colonial house being restored, new restaurants etc...

I will choose Vietnam if I were you, much more dynamic in terms of business, Vietiane is just a sleepy little town with a lot of border activity, mostly cheap imports from Thailand, and wine from France (big fancy winery shops there incidently)

Saigon is a very nice place to live, a lot of very nice restaurants and cafes (better than Thailand IMO) and Vietnamese food is awesone, 1000&#37; better than Thai. Life is still cheap but the whoring is a bit lame there. Better bring your tart with you. One drawback though is the cost of housing in Saigon, extremly expensive because very few "properties" and condos for rent or sale. District 1 for example will cost as much as in Paris for renting a decent place, Bangkok is 1/3 of the cost.

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## Norton

From your posts I have some idea on what you would be most comfortable with.  IMO, VN wins hands down for you.  Business can be conducted much easier, infrastructure (internet) good, availability of western food and visa's no big issue.  Unless you are planning on doing business would not recommend HCM city as costs are much higher than more environmentally desirable locations.  If you fancy seaside living there are many that will meet your needs.  Although your OP specifcally asks about Loa or VN, have you considered a change of scenery by relocating to somewhere else in Thailand.  Many places that are in essence nearly like a different planet than Bangkok!

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## Norton

> We'll see.... I've been playing with Lao and it is quite different from Thai.


What's her name? :Smile:

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## stroller

'nother thing in Laos it is illegal for foreigners to have any kind of sexual relationship with Laotians, unless married, which is reflected in most hotel's 'guest' policies, and, even though not strictly enforced, also poses potential problems for resident expats with a Lao 'friend'.

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## chinthee

^From what I understand, it is easy to get around this problem.  If you are with a Lao woman, she is just considered your wife, and everything is ok, and you can carry on.  Oops, I guess this just means I added common law marriage #4 to my portfolio when I get there.  :Sad:

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## terry57

> ^Yes, Mukdahan has the new 2nd Friendship Bridge. I forecast lots of action happening there and in Savannakhet in the next few years, especially given the ongoing transport with Vietnam. 
> 
> An undiscovered jewel. I'll not say more.


 

I spent a bit of time in Mukdahan in january,  its a lovely little town directly on the mekong.

I had a very nice discussion with a bangkok Thai who runs a restaurant and was waiting for his business to florish after they openned the new bridge.
He's been there 10 years.

Guess whats happenned. ?

Lao side is making a killing as all the Thais are going there but very few Lao are spending money in Mukdahan so the business side of things ain't what they expected.

There getting a bit of extra business from people passing through but its no big deal at this time,  Mudahan not being on a rail route and in the middle of no where ain't helping.

Other than that Mukdahan has a nice feel to it.

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## blackgang

Well they must need folks over in Laos anyway, It was just on the news where they have just shipped 12 Hmong run aways back to Laos from Thailand,, either they need em or the new Simian PM thinks Thai don't need em..

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