#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Farming & Gardening In Thailand >  >  Raising Farm Animals for Profit

## fredobkk

Hello,


We have about 8 rai in Chaiyaphum and would like to raise some animals to make a little money. With which one is more profitable ? Cow, porc, lamb, duck, chicken... ?

Thanks guys !

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## Dillinger

Tigers

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## Ratchaburi

Me think goats

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## nidhogg

> Hello,
> 
> 
> We have about 8 rai in Chaiyaphum and would like to raise some animals to make a little money. With which one is more profitable ? Cow, porc, lamb, duck, chicken... ?
> 
> Thanks guys !


Check whose toes you will be stepping on first.  "Accidents" can happen to people who set up competing businesses in the wrong place.

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## Pragmatic

Huskies seem very popular around where I live. No joke.

How about rats. Nobody farms them but they're very much in demand. If I was going to farm anything then that would be it. My wife tried chickens and ducks, small scale, but it wasn't worth the hassle.

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## Dillinger

> "Accidents" can happen to people who set up competing businesses in the wrong place.


In Thailand? You're joking aint ya?

One fucker starts selling mangoes on the side of the road, all of a sudden the whole stretch of highway is full of mangoes

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## S Landreth

If you intend on keeping the animal/s on the (improved piece of) property (you have a little more than 3 acres) you might have (a lot of variables) enough area (for grazing) for one (adult) cow.

I would not think ranching would be your best bet.

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by nidhogg
> 
>  "Accidents" can happen to people who set up competing businesses in the wrong place.
> 
> 
> In Thailand? You're joking aint ya?


Not really.  I used to drink with someone years back who lost his BIL for reasons of encroaching on someones pig farming business.

YMMV.

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## jamescollister

Fred, look around, do you see any Thais with 8 rai making money and they do all the labor themselves.

All the things you mention are just food for a families survival, no money in it.

Feeding pigs, ducks, chickens cost, grazing grass for cows is not the norm here.

Doing any thing that will make a profit will be a big investment money wise, be it fish, chickens etc.

As a hobby fine, but it will be a money loser over all.

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## Chittychangchang

Frog farming!

There's a thread on it here somewhere...

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## David48atTD

Humm ... highly general question.

Fred, how are you going with the food grade for your Aquaponic setup ... https://teakdoor.com/farming-and-gard...-ibc-tank.html (Aquaponic : food grade ibc tank ?)

44 posts ... 22 OP's

Humm ...

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## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by fredobkk
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> We have about 8 rai in Chaiyaphum and would like to raise some animals to make a little money. With which one is more profitable ? Cow, porc, lamb, duck, chicken... ?
> 
> Thanks guys !
> ...


Indeed.
As this is been known to happen.



If you're in with the right type of people within your surrounding area, might want to consider a cooperative sort of business - mostly for a supplemental profit.

The caveat being that working with [even knowledgeable] Thais is chancy as their usual display of rationale regarding business is a crapshoot - greatly depending on the individuals that you're dealing with.

Agriculture, horticulture, and stock farming - as extended social cooperatives - are a viable option.

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## David48atTD

Had a look at the geography of the Chaiyaphum Provence.

Nothing in the way of easy water ... so fish are out of the question.

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## Pragmatic

> Nothing in the way of easy water ... so fish are out of the question.


Catfish can survive in basically nothing, water wise, and have to be the the most popular consumed fish.

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## fredobkk

> Fred, look around, do you see any Thais with 8 rai making money and they do all the labor themselves.
> 
> All the things you mention are just food for a families survival, no money in it.
> 
> Feeding pigs, ducks, chickens cost, grazing grass for cows is not the norm here.
> 
> Doing any thing that will make a profit will be a big investment money wise, be it fish, chickens etc.
> 
> As a hobby fine, but it will be a money loser over all.


Thanks James, of course i have others income to live, it's just trying to find the way to use as best as possible the land we have and make a little bit pocket money but you are probably right  :Smile:

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## jamescollister

> Thanks James, of course i have others income to live, it's just trying to find the way to use as best as possible the land we have and make a little bit pocket money but you are probably right


There are thing you can do, if you put in your labor, but you will get a Thai return.
Mushrooms are as easy as you will get, I've tried, ducks fish, cassava and veggies, after costs, you lose or earn about 50 Baht a day for your labor.

Theft is a big problem, if you are not there, even for a night and sometimes when you are there, ducks, fish walk away.

My latest is charcoal making, have free wood from our rubber plantations, good day, can earn 300 Baht for my labor.

Question, is it worth the effort, for me it's just something to fill in the days when things are slow, which is most of the time.

Think outside the square, there are opportunities, just have to see them, we have a alleged farang milk shake stand out front of the house, with this very hot weather and school holidays, it's turning over 1,000 Baht a day.

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## Pragmatic

> Mushrooms are as easy as you will get


That was big around where I live a few years back and then died a death once the price hit rock bottom due to over production. The same applies to most commodities. When one tries something new the sheep will surely follow. The only thing that makes money is 'money lending' IMO. Always someone wanting quick money. Only problem being is you have to know what you're doing.

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## wasabi

Crickets , in our village there is one person that is producing and selling crickets.
You can't go wrong.

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## can123

> Crickets , in our village there is one person that is producing and selling crickets.
> You can't go wrong.


Bats ? Natural progression.

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## David48atTD

> <snip>
> My latest is charcoal making, have free wood from our rubber plantations, good day, can earn 300 Baht for my labor.
> 
> Question, is it worth the effort, for me it's just something to fill in the days when things are slow, which is most of the time.
> 
> <snip>



Jim, if you didn't get free wood from your plantation and had to buy it in, would you still turn a profit?

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## Pragmatic

> Crickets , in our village there is one person that is producing and selling crickets. You can't go wrong.


 Same reply as #7.

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## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by jamescollister
> 
> 
> <snip>
> My latest is charcoal making, have free wood from our rubber plantations, good day, can earn 300 Baht for my labor.
> 
> Question, is it worth the effort, for me it's just something to fill in the days when things are slow, which is most of the time.
> 
> <snip>
> ...


Probably not. Break even if that.

As everyone makes charcoal, suturing the market and profit.

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## charleyboy

Wood pigs.
Guy on this forum used to breed them...Made a fortune then retired to Blighty!

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## Pragmatic

People round here keep wild pigs but only for personal consumption. Farm reared pig is too easily available.

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## Pragmatic

Fredobkk around where I live there are quite a few pedigree cow milk farms. 8 Rai is a good size plot to start one on. That is providing you have a milk collection depot in your area. Bi-product of milk farming is the selling the calf's. All done by artificial insemination, no bulls. These cows never see pasture and are continually kept in barns/pens. I think profitable. Easy for me to find out facts and figures, if you want, as I know someone who does this.

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## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by jamescollister
> 
> 
> <snip>
> My latest is charcoal making, have free wood from our rubber plantations, good day, can earn 300 Baht for my labor.
> 
> Question, is it worth the effort, for me it's just something to fill in the days when things are slow, which is most of the time.
> 
> <snip>
> ...


That's when you start needing a business plan. all the small Thai, make a Baht here and there stops.

Once you step over the subsistence farming line, you become a business, all the regulations, taxes, permits come into play.

For me it is a possibility as I own a factory and industrial zoned land, but for a start from scratch, you would need to be going big, meaning big investment of money.

Anyone interested in going into the charcoal making business, have a look at charcoal bricketts from coconut shells.

Some years ago, I was almost at the point of ordering the machines, but cataracts and rubber prices put a stop to that.

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## fredobkk

> Fredobkk around where I live there are quite a few pedigree cow milk farms. 8 Rai is a good size plot to start one on. That is providing you have a milk collection depot in your area. Bi-product of milk farming is the selling the calf's. All done by artificial insemination, no bulls. These cows never see pasture and are continually kept in barns/pens. I think profitable. Easy for me to find out facts and figures, if you want, as I know someone who does this.


  thanks mate, that's very interesting, which part do you live ?

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## fredobkk

> Originally Posted by David48atTD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by jamescollister
> ...


Thanks, James, mushrooms could be a good idea yes, what kind do you speak about. Do i need a greenhouse ?

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## jamescollister

> Mushrooms could be a good idea yes, what kind do you speak about. Do i need a greenhouse ?


No green house needed, as to type,  will depend on your expertise.

Friend of mine issanaussie went into milky mushrooms, but you need to know what you are doing,
There are simpler ways to start out, BIL has a mushroom shed at he back of his house, think it was a 500 Baht starter kit, you buy the prepacked small bags, sell locally, if enough locals or you get a big surplus , the company that supplies the bags will buy the excess [at a much lower price]

There is a farm stay run by a Thai [Pak Dee I think] speaks English and does training courses, can supply all that is required.

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## David48atTD

> Originally Posted by fredobkk
> 
> Mushrooms could be a good idea yes, what kind do you speak about. Do i need a greenhouse ?
> 
> 
> No green house needed, as to type,  will depend on your expertise.
> 
> Friend of mine issanaussie went into milky mushrooms, but you need to know what you are doing,
> There are simpler ways to start out, BIL has a mushroom shed at he back of his house, think it was a 500 Baht starter kit, you buy the prepacked small bags, sell locally, if enough locals or you get a big surplus , the company that supplies the bags will buy the excess [at a much lower price]
> ...


Jim, I met him once ... real nice fella.

He held an Issan Farmers Meeting at his place ... great !

Packdee's an retired Army Colonel living up Saraburi way.

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## OhOh

> wood pigs. Guy on this forum used to breed them...Made a fortune then retired to Blighty!


Thais around here go into the "woods" and shoot the "wild" pigs. I don't believe they pay anybody. Although if you had enough land one could hold pig hunting days. Get a few Thai beaters to drive them towards the guns. What could go wrong.

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## Happy Dave

> Me think goats


Got a few Muslim bars in your area , have you ?   :smiley laughing:

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## Happy Dave

> If you intend on keeping the animal/s on the (improved piece of) property (you have a little more than 3 acres) you might have (a lot of variables) enough area (for grazing) for one (adult) cow.
> 
> I would not think ranching would be your best bet.


What is "Ranching"   :yerman:

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## wasabi

> Originally Posted by wasabi
> 
> 
> Crickets , in our village there is one person that is producing and selling crickets.
> You can't go wrong.
> 
> 
> Bats ? Natural progression.


He wanted advice on raising livestock, now he's thinking of raising mushrooms.

Can't believe he's gone, just like that.

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## Pragmatic

> Mushrooms could be a good idea yes, what kind do you speak about. Do i need a greenhouse ?


 If you don't know then don't do.

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## piwanoi

Golden rule #1, if you can manage financially  without working then don't work ,of course many get bored , but I find it rather odd that one should get a hobby were it entails pulling your tripes out 10 hours a day , and then can't sleep at night worrying about your investment  :Smile: .

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## mykthemin

In my opinion any one who comes here and has to work are fools and clearly never planned their future correctly.

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## piwanoi

> In my opinion any one who comes here and has to work are fools and clearly never planned their future correctly.


  Yeah wise words  , I  came living here in this area  in April 2004 and over that time seen a few farangs starting up in farming ,even though their wifes family had been at it for donkeys years and were piss poor and in debt , one guy in particular  an ex miner from Barnsley went into pigs and fish in a big way ,now he's 500,000 BAHT  poorer but a much wiser man  :Smile: .

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## crepitas

Personally would not relish the thought of slaughtering and butchering of live stock..
  A thought: 
  Build a big smoke house and a 40 gallon drum rotisserie BBQ.
  From observation the most expensive meat products in markets are smoked or BBQd.
  Hams, bacon, smoked fish etc...could possibly be quite lucrative methinks.
Could sell by word of mouth or via a market vendor? 

You could also spread the word that you will BBQ, smoke for others at x amount per kilo.

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## Pragmatic

> In my opinion any one who comes here and has to work are fools and clearly never planned their future correctly.


I would have put it so strongly. I say anyone that has to farm to survive as an expat here is fcuked from the start. :Smile:

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## nidhogg

> In my opinion any one who comes here and has to work are fools and clearly never planned their future correctly.


No offense, but that is a pretty narrow minded attitude.  We are not all working for 30K a month.

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## colinneil9

> Originally Posted by mykthemin
> 
> In my opinion any one who comes here and has to work are fools and clearly never planned their future correctly.
> 
> 
> I would have put it so strongly. I say anyone that has to farm to survive as an expat here is fcuked from the start.


Sorry i do not agree. I know a farang, no pension and he is growing here in Thailand, not making serious money, but making money none the less. :Sorry1:

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by Pragmatic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by mykthemin
> ...


  I wonder what his hourly rate is when he reckons all his time spent and money invested ?  and BTW this thread is about livestock farming  :Smile:

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## Pragmatic

> Sorry i do not agree. I know a farang, no pension and he is growing here in Thailand, not making serious money, but making money none the less.


And what was his initial outlay to start his farm and what crop does he farm.

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by colinneil9
> 
> Sorry i do not agree. I know a farang, no pension and he is growing here in Thailand, not making serious money, but making money none the less.
> 
> 
> And what was his initial outlay to start his farm and what crop does he farm.


  I remember a good Aussie friend of mine who met his maker 4 years ago this August  who grew 8 rai of cassava , he said when they harvested it his wife was bragging to the neighbours how much money they had made , he dryly said when you take into account labour ,transport , fertilizer and tractor hire expenses which obviously she didn't take into account  the money they ACTUALLY made would not have paid the price of 2 good night's out in Pattaya with his other Aussie mates .

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## Pragmatic

Piwanoi a person buys a Rai of land at 150,000 Baht. He grows Cassava, if there was a better crop he'd grow that, but there isn't. 
A Rai of land should produce about 5 metric tons. The farmer takes it to the merchant and gets currently 1,300 Baht per metric ton less 10% for dirt. I then believe money is deducted for it being wet ie fresh and not dry. How much I don't know.
Then deduct labour, fertilizer, pesticide, transport and tax. I'd imagine a farmer would receive about half his 6,500 Baht per Rai. Now bearing in mind he bought the land at 150,000 Baht a Rai, how many years before he sees a return on his outlay?

Edit; The 1,300 Baht per metric to should be times 5. So a farmer initially  get 6,500 Baht per Rai per year less deductions. I hope I've got that right now?

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## piwanoi

> Piwanoi a person buys a Rai of land at 150,000 Baht. He grows Cassava, if there was a better crop he'd grow that, but there isn't. 
> A Rai of land should produce about 5 metric tons. The farmer takes it to the merchant and gets currently 1,300 Baht per metric ton less 10% for dirt. I then believe money is deducted for it being wet ie fresh and not dry. How much I don't know.
> Then deduct labour, fertilizer, pesticide, transport and tax. I'd imagine a farmer would receive about half his 6,500 Baht per Rai. Now bearing in mind he bought the land at 150,000 Baht a Rai, how many years before he sees a return on his outlay?
> 
> Edit; The 1,300 Baht per metric to should be times 5. So a farmer initially  get 6,500 Baht per Rai per year less deductions. I hope I've got that right now?


 Spot on , for some strange reason many do not take into account those seemingly "hidden" expenses , as I have said many times before the Head mans son who is in Collage in Korat comes home every so often and likes to practise his English on me ,he's told me a couple of times that every farmer in my village is bollock deep in debt with many now going to either BKK or the Holiday resorts in the South to work ..,

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## Pragmatic

The unfortunate thing about farming here is that much of the farm land is Sor Por Gor titled and therefore is only supposed to be used for agriculture. They have no choice to farm it even if they don't make money as it can be repossessed. That is my understanding of it.

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## piwanoi

> The unfortunate thing about farming here is that much of the farm land is Sor Por Gor titled and therefore is only supposed to be used for agriculture. They have no choice to farm it even if they don't make money as it can be repossessed. That is my understanding of it.


  Jan has 3 rai she used to plant rice on , she had it filled in and now rents it out to a guy who grows Cassava .

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## jamescollister

I've said it before, farming is not easy anywhere in this world and return on investment has no magic increase because it's in Thailand.

Ask yourself, how much land/cost/work would you need to make a decent living farming in your home country, ROI is fairly even world wide.

When people talk of 10 rai of cassava, rice a few pigs, that's not farming, that's substance for Thais and a hobby for farangs.

You don't invest a few 100,000 Baht and expect to make a living, knew a pork buyer for for a UK shopping chain, they buy most of their pork from Thailand.
He said he wouldn't even look at a piggery worth less then 3 mil US, too small to be viable.

So any of you business genius please tell me where to invest in the west say a million Baht that would give you a retirement income, if you can't why would you think it's possible here.

Anything that makes money is worth money, be it a noodle bar or a million dollar business, if you want to own it you will pay the going rate.

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## piwanoi

> I've said it before, farming is not easy anywhere in this world and return on investment has no magic increase because it's in Thailand.
> 
> Ask yourself, how much land/cost/work would you need to make a decent living farming in your home country, ROI is fairly even world wide.
> 
> When people talk of 10 rai of cassava, rice a few pigs, that's not farming, that's substance for Thais and a hobby for farangs.
> 
> You don't invest a few 100,000 Baht and expect to make a living, knew a pork buyer for for a UK shopping chain, they buy most of their pork from Thailand.
> He said he wouldn't even look at a piggery worth less then 3 mil US, too small to be viable.
> 
> ...


  As per usual Jim, just another of your down to earth common sense posts :Smile:

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## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by jamescollister
> 
> 
> I've said it before, farming is not easy anywhere in this world and return on investment has no magic increase because it's in Thailand.
> 
> Ask yourself, how much land/cost/work would you need to make a decent living farming in your home country, ROI is fairly even world wide.
> 
> When people talk of 10 rai of cassava, rice a few pigs, that's not farming, that's substance for Thais and a hobby for farangs.
> 
> ...


Indeed, and in great shortage amongst the tribe.

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by jamescollister
> ...


  Yeah you ain't seen me advocating starting a farm have you? not when all around me the Thai farmers are bollock deep in Debt through this great enterprise of Farming in Thailand .

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## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by thaimeme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by piwanoi
> ...


In defence, their debt stems from unnecessary [and easy to secure] loans, not incompetent farming practices.

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by thaimeme
> ...


  Rice is king here as you know , you also know that the North East does not get 3 crops a year like other places in Los ,having said that  many Thai's do borrow money totally unnecessarily .

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## can123

It's very easy to make money by farming in Isaan. First, you buy a pig, then you teach him to play the piano. When he is sufficiently proficient you rent him out as "live music" to bars in Pattaya. He wouldn't have to be much good to be better than most bands there and iif he failed to impress he could be turned into sausages.

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## Pragmatic

> It's very easy to make money by farming in Isaan. First, you buy a pig, then you teach him to play the piano. When he is sufficiently proficient you rent him out as "live music" to bars in Pattaya.


Most of Isaan's pigs are already working in Pattaya.  :Smile:

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## piwanoi

> It's very easy to make money by farming in Isaan. First, you buy a pig, then you teach him to play the piano. When he is sufficiently proficient you rent him out as "live music" to bars in Pattaya. He wouldn't have to be much good to be better than most bands there and iif he failed to impress he could be turned into sausages.


  Yeah I really do like practical suggestions, any prize on the top shelf ,  BTW vote brexit  :Smile:

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by can123
> 
> It's very easy to make money by farming in Isaan. First, you buy a pig, then you teach him to play the piano. When he is sufficiently proficient you rent him out as "live music" to bars in Pattaya.
> 
> 
> Most of Isaan's pigs are already working in Pattaya.


  True story , a Farang who was getting married here about 3 years ago decided to have a big party with all the trimmings , he asked a good mate of mine how much a pig was , my mate said quite dryly the price varies ,  but so far mine's cost be about 2 million  :rofl:

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## wasabi

> Originally Posted by Pragmatic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by mykthemin
> ...


Is his weed any good

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## David48atTD

There is some modest money to be made with Fish and Shrimp/Prawn Farming.

'Modest' from a Thai wage perspective.

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## jamescollister

> There is some modest money to be made with Fish and Shrimp/Prawn Farming.
> 
> 'Modest' from a Thai wage perspective.


That's the bottom line, Thai small farming pays Thai returns, a person with a reasonable job earns, say 20,000 Baht per month and they can live, pay rent, eat, just like someone in the west on 2,000 dollars a month.

A small farmer, no rent, few bills needs a lot less, if you as a farang can live a Thai life style, then a good profitable [Thai income] farm will keep you fed, housed for free.

There are plenty of farangs. after securing their permission to stay, live simple farming lives, you don't need a lot of money here.

Those who want to take up an alternate life style, need to plan, there are ways, a good steady income can come from rubber, palm oil, cashew nuts etc. you need to know how much you will require to support your life style.

You will find few farangs on here living the farmers life, internet is a cost not necessary to living, as is aircon, new cars and nightly visits to the bar.

A simple easy life can be had, if you are of that mind, but you will not be lord of the manor, just another farmer getting by.

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## stroller

^
That's if you're lucky enough for your Thai wife to own the land.

If you need to buy the land, it will take a life-time to get the investment back.

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## bankao dreamer

The other thing is will the Thai wife be willing to accept that lifestyle. Being married to a falang normally means not having to do anything. The concept of a falang working the land or raising livestock to get by is not understood. 
When we had the pigs the locals couldn't get their heads around the fact the wife and I did all the work ourselves. 
They also think they will get things cheaper from you. "You falang not need money sell me pig cheap cheap"
We enjoyed the lifestyle, I loved raising pigs but trying to do business with the Thai was bloody hard work.

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## jamescollister

> f you need to buy the land, it will take a life-time to get the investment back.


It's not a business investment, if the land is legal it doesn't lose value, it's a life style choice, a early retirement plan in my case.

BD, some Thai wives work, some don't, mine takes care of the buying and selling, deals with the workers etc, maybe 5, 10 hours a week, a lot easier than a working life in Australia.

As said, not a life for most, but it works for me, young kids and a 24/7 dad and mum.

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## bankao dreamer

Sorry Jim maybe I was being too generic. I was merely giving food for thought to people who are considering the alternative lifestyle. 
Spending quality time with the family is the most important thing.

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## David48atTD

> Originally Posted by David48atTD
> 
> 
> There is some modest money to be made with Fish and Shrimp/Prawn Farming.
> 
> 'Modest' from a Thai wage perspective.
> 
> 
> That's the bottom line, Thai small farming pays Thai returns, a person with a reasonable job earns, say 20,000 Baht per month and they can live, pay rent, eat, just like someone in the west on 2,000 dollars a month.
> ...


Great post Jim ... worth another read.

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## forreachingme

Pig farm is good, we seen couple years ago a British doing well with this...

get investors back in UK to buy one piggy that will make 7 each so and so... his business plan is some where around the farming threads, or scamming threads...

Than we seen another milk cow farmer that  lost all the small herd due to a virus..

Cassava in Thailand produces 15 to 25 tons per hectares, in Phils another variety that only gives 5 tons hectare, less starch but better taste for cakes.

A guy in korat built up a nice setup to farm turtles, once the animals ready for the Koreans, a ban of export came to halt all, over use of antibiotics by some...

There is a blog around in Phils of a guy that looks to harvest all he does out of season for best price, doing well but needs knowledge and experience.

Farm humans, plant teepees and yurts, make a bed and breakie farm...

Good luck whatever...

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## piwanoi

A good friend of mine who lived about 20 kms from me here in Buriram province  who sadly passed away before Xmas went into pigs in a rather big way (30 breeding sows ) after two years of losing money he packed the game in an older but poorer guy ,he said the cost of pig food was the problem , reading the News from the UK its no better there too https://www.theguardian.com/environm...it-pig-farmers

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## crepitas

[quote=jamescollister;3290061]


> There is some modest money to be made with Fish and Shrimp/Prawn Farming.
> 
> 'Modest' from a Thai wage perspective.


That's the bottom line, Thai small farming pays Thai returns, a person with a reasonable job earns, say 20,000 Baht per month and they can live, pay rent, eat, just like someone in the west on 2,000 dollars a month.

A small farmer, no rent, few bills needs a lot less, if you as a farang can live a Thai life style, then a good profitable [Thai income] farm will keep you fed, housed for free.

There are plenty of farangs. after securing their permission to stay, live simple farming lives, you don't need a lot of money here.

 Good words Jim. 
  Maybe I am a bit thick but as we pay our cutters 50% of product sale price and also share 50/50 maintenance costs I am at loss to understand why _they_ should be any worse/better off than the plantation owners regardless of nationality.But somehow they always whine that they are broke..go figure Can’t speak to other agricultural products of course.

  But please do not get me wrong...I think our cutters are good honest people. They are neighbors and have their own small rubber farm, don’t gamble or even drink to excess as far as I know.
  We often supply them with veggies and fruits and they reciprocate. Gave the _father_ my relatively new Chinese dirt bike after I got sick of looking at it, also an ancient brush cutter.Bugger fixed both and now uses.  Maybe money management is not their forte or perhaps they are supporting others??

----------


## stroller

> Maybe I am a bit thick but as we pay our cutters 50% of product sale price and also share 50/50 maintenance costs I am at loss to understand why they should be any worse/better off than the plantation owners regardless of nationality.


How many cutters do you have?
You are taking as much money as all of them together.

----------


## jamescollister

> Maybe money management is not their forte or perhaps they are supporting others??
>     [at] [at]


All my tappers have a pickup, first thing they buy when they have the deposit, price of rubber goes down, but the payments stay the same.

My number one tapper family, old truck, but bought a rice harvester, 1 mill Baht on payments, smart guy, always broke, but will own the harvester outright next year.

Think we all live to the limit of our income, here or in the west, having that new I phone is more important then having a few Baht in the bank.

----------


## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by crepitas
> 
> Maybe I am a bit thick but as we pay our cutters 50% of product sale price and also share 50/50 maintenance costs I am at loss to understand why they should be any worse/better off than the plantation owners regardless of nationality.
> 
> 
> How many cutters do you have?
> You are taking as much money as all of them together.


That's the idea, you get about the same as each tapper, just sold one plantations rubber today. Best worker and best plantation,4 taps meaning husband and wife team earned 1,000 Baht per tap, or 4,000 for the week, I do a 60/40 split, so get 6,000 Baht.

I wear some of the extra costs, fuel, cups etc so ends up about 50/50 over time, when prices are better it's a straight 60/40 for everything.

----------


## Pragmatic

Jim, how many Rai are tapped to get 10,000 Baht per week, and is that net or gross?

----------


## stroller

> That's the idea


I understand that, fair enough if you own the land.

But one shouldn't be wondering why cutters may be out of pocket while oneself is doing alright, when one makes as much as 10 of them combined while sipping beer on the proch.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## jamescollister

> Jim, how many Rai are tapped to get 10,000 Baht per week, and is that net or gross?


That' one of those unanswerable question, all depends on price, clone type, rain fall etc, etc.

Ball park, bad prices, doing cup, OK trees, you would be safe at your cut being 10,000 Baht per week for 100 rai.

Good clones, good trees ups the output, doing sheet value adds, so a Thai sitting on his ass using tappers, with 20  rai of Thai average output trees would get around 100,000 a year.

Stroller, that's the way of the world, a boss always makes more then the hired help, don't think the system would work otherwise.
Tappers on well run plantations make a reasonable income, for what is really a part time job.

----------


## Gazza

> First, you buy a pig, then you teach him to play the piano. When he is sufficiently proficient you rent him out as "live music" to bars in Pattaya. He wouldn't have to be much good to be better than most bands there and iif he failed to impress he could be turned into sausages.


Pattaya would be quite apt. 
I can already hear all the bar-touts singing ''Sex and Drugs and Sausage Rolllllllllllls.....''
 :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> just sold one plantations rubber today.  Best worker and best plantation,4 taps meaning husband and wife team  earned 1,000 Baht per tap, or 4,000 for the week, I do a 60/40 split, so  get 6,000 Baht.







> Jim, how many Rai are tapped to get 10,000 Baht per week, and is that net or gross?





> That' one of those unanswerable question, all depends on price, clone type, rain fall etc, etc.


 I found this to be very informative and may well help others who are considering farming rubber trees. Article is from 2012 so bear in mind the difference in today prices.




> It should be noted that it is not possible to give precise predictions  of income from rubber, since there are many factors affecting income.
> 
> It  would be more accurate and realistic to talk about production figures  according to the type of rubber you produce. Cup rubber (rainy season)  will produce more kilo's than Rss3, which is the dried and smoked sheet.  
> 
> I estimate a 40% weight loss from wet sheet to dried sheet  after a 2 week drying period, but prices are greater for the dried sheet  and you can keep them longer than cup/ball rubber. Ball rubber cannot  be stored for long periods, unless you choose to make a crepe rubber  from them, which is another process whereby you can dry and keep your  rubber.
> 
> The advantage of keeping rubber is that you can determine  when to accept the prevailing market price, rather than being forced to  sell immediately! Therefore dried rubber gives you the decision making  and control!
> 
> Production has many variables such as weather! Heat,  cold, wet, dry and wind all have their own influences according to the  seasons and time of year! Wind can dry the cut and latex will dry and  restrict flow, rain can wash you out, heat can cause drying, cold can  increase turgor pressure and squeeze out the latex! Time of day or night  that you cut your trees will determine prevailing temperature and  directly affect production too, when season allows, cutting at night is  the norm, but during the rainy season teams cut whenever it is dry  enough. We have on one occasion gone 6 days without a cut due to rain!  This affects your production.
> ...


 What is the financial return on a rubber tree farm in Thailand?

----------


## mykthemin

Ok, with this meagre income how can any Farang get a long term extension of stay to live here and anyway no work permit???? So on a wing and a prayer/overstay I guess??

----------


## Pragmatic

> Ok, with this meagre income how can any Farang get a long term extension of stay to live here and anyway no work permit???? So on a wing and a prayer/overstay I guess??


What you do is have 800,000 or 400,000 in a fixed term account, depending on marriage or retirement, and never touch it. That's your ticket to a 'long term extension of stay'. 
Now if one had left ones money in a 'Teachers Bank' instead of putting it in to farming I think that would have been a better option over the long term. 
'Teachers Bank' are currently paying 6.25% interest on a 1 year fixed term account in a Thai nationals name. The fcuking twats only pay 4% if it's a farang. 
6.25% annual interest has to be more tempting than farming and getting fcuk all?

----------


## mykthemin

Most of these herberts do not have any cash to bank, just a wing and a prayer?
Please tell me the teachers bank paying that interest, the most I can find for fixed term is 1.2 ??

----------


## Pragmatic

I bank with the Teachers Bank in Buriram. Account is in my wife's name and get 6.25% interest for 1 year fixed term. For my visa extension I have 800,000 fixed term and I get 4% cuz I'm a farang.  :Smile:

----------


## stroller

> Ok, with this meagre income how can any Farang get a long term extension of stay to live here and anyway no work permit???? So on a wing and a prayer/overstay I guess??


Since you cannot own the land, it doesn't count towards immigration financial requirements, you'd need to have enough extra money sitting in a bank and/or have another regular income, such as a pension.

Which is one more reason I decided against buying land.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Which is one more reason I decided against buying land.


When I first settled here 10+ years ago land was selling at 40,000 a Rai. Now it's selling at about 200,000. I've never regretted not buying.

----------


## mykthemin

> I bank with the Teachers Bank in Buriram. Account is in my wife's name and get 6.25% interest for 1 year fixed term. For my visa extension I have 800,000 fixed term and I get 4% cuz I'm a farang.


Well I have tried to find details of this bank, and nothing? is it a figment of your imagination, can you supply a website? or is it exclusively for teachers?

----------


## jamescollister

> Ok, with this meagre income how can any Farang get a long term extension of stay to live here and anyway no work permit???? So on a wing and a prayer/overstay I guess??


So tell me, in your country can a person get off a plane with a few 100,000 Baht, start an illegal business and get a work permit, so why should you be able to here.

Work permits can be obtained for most things to do with management, being a laborer is not allowed, big deal.

Know a few guys out here who have work permits that involve agriculture, mostly in sub contracting crops from locals.

Things are much the same legally, as much of the world, but like Japan not big on immigration, good for them I say.

----------


## stroller

^^
I am interested as well, must be the highest interest around at the moment.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Well I have tried to find details of this bank, and nothing? is it a figment of your imagination, can you supply a website? or is it exclusively for teachers?


 It is 'Buriram Teachers Saving's CO LTD' . I, nor my wife are teachers. I can't find it on Google either.  :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

It is on the web.



> See photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See outside
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## mykthemin

> Originally Posted by mykthemin
> 
> 
> Ok, with this meagre income how can any Farang get a long term extension of stay to live here and anyway no work permit???? So on a wing and a prayer/overstay I guess??
> 
> 
> So tell me, in your country can a person get off a plane with a few 100,000 Baht, start an illegal business and get a work permit, so why should you be able to here.
> 
> Work permits can be obtained for most things to do with management, being a laborer is not allowed, big deal.
> ...


Yes no problem in UK, have money can do anything you want to NO RESTRICTIONS.

----------


## mykthemin

> Originally Posted by mykthemin
> 
> Well I have tried to find details of this bank, and nothing? is it a figment of your imagination, can you supply a website? or is it exclusively for teachers?
> 
> 
>  It is 'Buriram Teachers Saving's CO LTD' . I, nor my wife are teachers. I can't find it on Google either.


so only local to Buriram? have you had any money out? to me looks too good to be true? Do immigration accept them for extensions? as clearly not a Thai Bank? more like a ponsi or pyramid scam?

----------


## stroller

"Savings cooperative" - we got one here locally, the main purpose seems to be for the members to borrow money with another member who is in the black signing a guarantee. The only way they can pay interest is if the borrowers actually make their monthly payments.

I advised my wife against joining - needless to say she didn't listen.

----------


## Pragmatic

> have you had any money out? to me looks too good to be true? Do immigration accept them for extensions? as clearly not a Thai Bank? more like a ponsi or pyramid scam?


Of course I've had money out. Up to you if you don't trust it. I was of the same opinion as you when I first joined


> looks too good to be true


Immigration does accept it as a source of deposited funds. I'm happy. Up to yous if you have doubts. They have a telephone number, call it and find out for yourself.

----------


## OhOh

Doesn't the balance only need to be the requested amounts for the previous, prior to visa extension application, 3 months?

Useful input on banking alternatives, thanks. As usual banks can fail anywhere. 

It's not like its millions of 's/$'s. 20 oz's gold (40 baht)

----------


## Maanaam

> Hello,
> 
> 
> We have about 8 rai in Chaiyaphum and would like to raise some animals to make a little money. With which one is more profitable ? Cow, porc, lamb, duck, chicken... ?
> 
> Thanks guys !


Fred, I think you should look at your market. What do people want?
I'm down south, and I think goat would be good because there is a high Muslim population. Being in Hatyai, there is also a huge Chinese population, so ducks would be good here.
What do people want where you are? 8 rai gives you quite a few options. Chickens, with their eggs is a thought. Everyone eats chicken, and eggs. You farm the chooks for their eggs, and then when they are off the lay, you sell them for their meat.

----------


## Maanaam

> I bank with the Teachers Bank in Buriram. Account is in my wife's name and get 6.25% interest for 1 year fixed term. For my visa extension I have 800,000 fixed term and I get 4% cuz I'm a farang.


If married, I thought you only need 400 000.

----------


## Pragmatic

> If married, I thought you only need 400 000.


 Correct, but before, with a Marriage Extension, it was required you had to wait a month as it was sent for consideration. If getting a 'Retirement Extension' you got it there and then. No one month wait. That's why I did/do the 'Retirement Extension'.

----------


## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by Pragmatic
> 
> 
> I bank with the Teachers Bank in Buriram. Account is in my wife's name and get 6.25% interest for 1 year fixed term. For my visa extension I have 800,000 fixed term and I get 4% cuz I'm a farang. 
> 
> 
> If married, I thought you only need 400 000.


Retirement extension of stay is the simplest way to go, if you have the money.

If you don't you have to jump through the rings, your local immigration office can make it easy or hard.

As in all things, money counts.

----------


## Pragmatic

Post 97 was wrong. The money is my account.
..

----------


## GracelessFawn

Starting a piggery might be a good idea.  The overhead cost to start one isn't that high, and you profit after 4 months. Raising sows might even bring you more profit, if you raise their piglets as fatteners for the market.  But if you do, you will have to wait 8 months to 1.2 yrs before they start producing piglets.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Starting a piggery might be a good idea.


All farming in Thailand is a bad idea IMO.

----------


## crackerjack101

Hmmm, I like pigs. Could be better than growing Pomello.

----------


## GracelessFawn

Growing bananas is another alternative.  Its way better than cassava, as its production starts 1.5 years after planting, and will be in production til 5-6 yrs old.  After that, you have to start planting new ones coz production level of very old bananas will diminish, and the banana fruits that it will produce will not be up to par with acceptable market standards.  You have to keep in mind that bananas are meant to be inter cropped with another plant like rubber.  At least, you start seeing a bit of income after 1.5 yrs, rather than waiting for 5-7 yrs for the rubber to be in production.  It won't make as much as rubber trees, but its still a quick source of income, none the less.  By the time the banana production slows down, your rubber trees will be ready or almost ready for production.

----------


## crackerjack101

Yes, but what about pigs ?

----------


## thaimeme

> Yes, but what about pigs ?


Well.....lot of work [depending on size] and care is needed.

But if disciplined, pig stock returns a very good value/profit.

 :Smile:

----------


## GracelessFawn

> Yes, but what about pigs ?


Pigs if farmed as fatteners for meat in the market, usually generate income in four months time.  One pig, if given proper care and the right amount of nutrients, will make you 2-3k net profit.  That's after you deduct operational expenses, food, injections like Dectomax, Belamyl, ADE, etc.  

Unlike banana farming, wherein most work are done routinely like the clearing, fertilizing, and harvesting,  pigs require loads of time, attention and work on a daily basis.  You have to clean and feed them at least, twice a day.  This is assuming that you've provided a water drinker for them to suck on.  If not, you will need to manually provide them with water, throughout the day. 

The best part about pig farming is that you don't need a big stretch of land to start one.  You just need a bit of land to build your farm on.  Banana farming, on the other hand, would need a considerable stretch of land, which could be very expensive.  

The downside to pig farming is that you have to repeat the process every four months, in order to make profit. The bananas, once they are established, you just clear them routinely every four months (maybe, even six months if the dry season is approaching), and harvest every two weeks, making money every two weeks, for 5-6 yrs.

In the end, it all boils down to your preferences and the resources you have at hand.

----------


## crackerjack101

Can't you just grow pigs in a box like the good old days?

----------


## wasabi

Well done ,finally somebody has answered the OP question, can you make a living out of livestock.

----------


## jimbobs

> Can't you just grow pigs in a box like the good old days?


A mate of mine has got pigs in little boxes
Breaks my heart every time I see it
Poor thing squealing in the heat
Got to be a heartless bastard to do that

----------


## stroller

Moo dam is the latest craze - farm raised boars. 
They grow slower and are very shy, fetch a much higher price.

----------


## GracelessFawn

> Can't you just grow pigs in a box like the good old days?


I guess, one can.  I wouldn't advice it though.  Boxes are too hot, hard to clean, and does not have enough air circulation.  If your pigs are not happy, they are irritable, their appetite is affected, they become restless and they create way too much noise.  These factors could slow down their growth.  

If you have a problem with space, keeping them in narrow pens make sense.  Also, it minimizes their movements to some degree, maintaining their metabolism on the low side, encouraging faster growth.  Pens are also easier to clean and have better air circulation.

----------


## jamescollister

Over the years met many who have tried pig farming, none where successful, lots of reasons.
Generally, farangs and Thais know little about pigs, it's a complex business, not only figuring out costs, pigs eat a lot, so food cost can out way sale prices.

You need to be well up on how to keep the pigs healthy, one sick pig will infect the whole sty, very easy to lose any profits if the pigs start dieing.

The only farang that I have met that made pigs profitable, was forced to shut up shop by the Government.
This, no problem, no one cares works fine, until someone complains, then you find that the limit for subsistence farms is [think] 10 pigs, after that you are a tax paying business and all the regulations come into force.

All types of farming have a size, turn over limit, that means you are no longer a peon, subsistence farmer, but a business, once a business, all the regulations, environmental, health certificates and planing permission etc come into force.

My advice to anyone trying any farming here, is don't listen to the locals, get government information, be legal, be safe.

----------


## David48atTD

> Over the years met many who have tried pig farming, none where successful, lots of reasons.
> Generally, farangs and Thais know little about pigs, it's a complex business, not only figuring out costs, pigs eat a lot, so food cost can out way sale prices.
> 
> You need to be well up on how to keep the pigs healthy, one sick pig will infect the whole sty, very easy to lose any profits if the pigs start dieing.
> 
> The only farang that I have met that made pigs profitable, was forced to shut up shop by the Government.
> This, no problem, no one cares works fine, until someone complains, then you find that the limit for subsistence farms is [think] 10 pigs, after that you are a tax paying business and all the regulations come into force.
> 
> All types of farming have a size, turn over limit, that means you are no longer a peon, subsistence farmer, but a business, once a business, all the regulations, environmental, health certificates and planing permission etc come into force.
> ...


+1   ^ What Jim said

Very, very few make any money farming here.

The theory and the practise do not align.

In 'theory' you could possibly turn some coin, but in reality, you are just pissing into the wind.

A commercial piggery is out of the questions, as outlined by Jim above.

Ditto a commercial Turkey Farm, who was run out of business by local competitors.

Mushroom Farming shows some slight promise.   Met a Thai Mushroom Farmer who happily shares his secrets (a rare breed) and he turns a modest profit.

Us? ... we are Fish Farmers and turn a profit.  A very modest profit.


Went a Farmers meeting in Thailand.  Chock full of professional farmers back in the West.  No-one ... not one was turning a profit.  There was talk of 'next year' ... maybe.  In two years ... 'sure' ... I'm not holding my breath.


When you breath, shit and live on a Thai Farm, the realities of same hit home.

Thai Farmers ... incredibly resourceful at reducing their input costs, as it's one of the few variables they have control over.

Couple of guys making some coin in Rubber ... Jim rules the forest there.

BTW ... check out the pleasures of making charcoal ... https://teakdoor.com/living-in-thaila...al-making.html (Thailand - Charcoal making)

----------


## crackerjack101

It's a shame isn't it.

Every now and then she comes up with some land that's for sale and my answer is always the same; Can we make any money out of it?
The answer is invariably "No".

So, why would we bother.

Our valley is incredibly fertile producing masses of Pomello and also rice, corn, tobacco, etc etc.
But, inevitably, the productive profit making land is never going to be sold and why take on the risk of a loss making few rai that will just sit there and become overgrown.

We've talked about fish farming but it seems like a disaster waiting to happen. I remember Daltons reports on his fish farm and it all sounds like too much work for very little return.

I would consider getting 3-4 rai and digging  out a bit of a lake which we'd stock and then sell off once a year. There are 2 or 3 round here and it's a great weekend of partying and celebration. No profit but bloody good fun. She knocked that idea into touch saying that the locals would steal all the fish ! Oh well.

All good. If in doubt, do nothing.   :Smile:

----------


## stroller

> She knocked that idea into touch saying that the locals would steal all the fish


Not all, but they _will_ help themselves while you're not looking. Even from our small basin in front of the house.

----------


## crackerjack101

> Not all, but they will help themselves while you're not looking. Even from our small basin in front of the house.


Indeed. She pointed out that the other 2 lakes in our area where they do this, the owners live on site and guard the fish with their lives. Fuc that for a laugh.  :Smile:

----------


## stroller

A few of these, strategically placed, should provide an ample learning experience:

----------


## crackerjack101

> A few of these, strategically placed, should provide an ample learning experience:


Hmm. There's a thought. i'll see what she thinks.    :rofl:

----------


## Pragmatic

> Growing bananas is another alternative. Its way better than cassava, as its production starts 1.5 years after planting, and will be in production til 5-6 yrs old


 I thought after a banana tree fruits you cut it back after you take the ripe bananas . And it then automatically grows a new shoot at the base. That's how they grow here. Are you in England?  :Smile:

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by GracelessFawn
> 
> Growing bananas is another alternative. Its way better than cassava, as its production starts 1.5 years after planting, and will be in production til 5-6 yrs old
> 
> 
>  I thought after a banana tree fruits you cut it back after you take the bananas ripen. And it automatically grows a new shoot at the base. That's how they grow here. Are you in England?


Indeed....
Though, regardless of human care and intervention, bananas will naturally propagate shoots - survival mechanism.

As bananas in Thailand are largely from wild stock. Bananas/plantains are native to Siam and introduced historically.

----------


## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by GracelessFawn
> 
> Starting a piggery might be a good idea.
> 
> 
> All farming in Thailand is a bad idea IMO.


   I know quite a lot of so called farmers here abouts ,never met ONE that could make a decent living out of Pigs .

----------


## crackerjack101

Hamsters ?

----------


## thaimeme

> Hamsters ?


 
Ducks...
There is a built-in market.

Meat and eggs.

----------


## crackerjack101

Goldfish ?

----------


## OhOh

> yrs old I thought after a banana tree fruits you cut it back after you take the bananas ripen


Around here the elephants push them over for you!

Coffee is an easy growing plant, good prices for the dried or roasted beans. Always a market for coffee, it's a hard drug to kick. That is unitl the elephants get the taste for it.

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by Pragmatic
> 
> yrs old I thought after a banana tree fruits you cut it back after you take the bananas ripen
> 
> 
> Around here the elephants push them over for you!
> 
> Coffee is an easy growing plant, good prices for the dried or roasted beans. Always a market for coffee, it's a hard drug to kick. That is unitl the elephants get the taste for it.


 
Coffee, too, is becoming another controlled [just recently] commodity by the powers that be - since it's fast growing fashion and high overseas marketability.

----------


## Pragmatic

I knew an old poster on here called 'Tsicar'. He lived in the same village as me. He kept catfish and sold them to the locals. He kept his fish in brick tanks. Didn't put them in ponds as the catfish will take walk abouts. Anyway his biggest cost was buying the fingerling (babies) and he managed to find out how to artificially inseminate the females. He was on his way to making money.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  They then changed the Immigration rules and he had no choice but to go home back to S Africa. Anyone want to know about raising fish then see Tsicar's threads. A genuine nice guy and a perfectly acceptable racist.   :Smile:

----------


## crackerjack101

> 'Tsicar'


i remember him. He was a good bloke.

----------


## crackerjack101

Perhaps prawns would work     :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> i remember him. He was a good bloke.


I can't sing his praise enough. I came here suffering 'Depression' and I couldn't really function mentally 100%. He took me under his wing and helped me immensely. The guy had nothing. And I mean nothing. His wife had fcuked him off and took his 2 sons with her. He eventually got them back but he had no income to support them. That's when he took up catfish farming. I used to give him my old clothes and flip-flops. I could write a book about him but you probably wouldn't believe me on how he lived with his sons. 
What a shame he no longer posts. I still keep in touch with him but only to wish 'Happy New Year'.  :Sad2:

----------


## OhOh

> Coffee, too, is becoming another controlled [just recently]


Any info/links, in English, please?

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by crackerjack101
> 
> i remember him. He was a good bloke.
> 
> 
> I can't sing his praise enough. I came here suffering 'Depression' and I couldn't really function mentally 100%. He took me under his wing and helped me immensely. The guy had nothing. And I mean nothing. His wife had fcuked him off and took his 2 sons with her. He eventually got them back but he had no income to support them. That's when he took up catfish farming. I used to give him my old clothes and flip-flops. I could write a book about him but you probably wouldn't believe me on how he lived with his sons. 
> What a shame he no longer posts. I still keep in touch with him but only to wish 'Happy New Year'.


Oh dear, Pag......
Must've been quite desperate for Farang company.


FFS.

----------


## crackerjack101

> Oh dear, Pag......
> Must've been quite desperate for Farang company.


Fuck off Geoff, that was quite unnecessary.

----------


## stroller

> 'Tsicar'...
> A genuine nice guy and a perfectly acceptable racist.


Nothing surprises me on TD.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## david44

New flock of stray Ajarnsheep ready to be fleeced, would they pay to read the pms?

----------


## BaitongBoy

> I can't sing his praise enough. I came here suffering 'Depression' and I couldn't really function mentally 100%. He took me under his wing and helped me immensely. The guy had nothing. And I mean nothing. His wife had fcuked him off and took his 2 sons with her. He eventually got them back but he had no income to support them. That's when he took up catfish farming. I used to give him my old clothes and flip-flops. I could write a book about him but you probably wouldn't believe me on how he lived with his sons.


Seriously?...That's quite a story...More power to the guy...And good for you to help him out...

I remember the name, as well...

----------


## Pragmatic

> Nothing surprises me on TD.


 I'm sure you'd change your opinion if you knew him. His beliefs and politics didn't concern me.







> Oh dear, Pag...... Must've been quite desperate for Farang company.   FFS.


Jeff likes scat but that doesn't make it that I dislike him. His private life is his own.

----------


## piwanoi

> I knew an old poster on here called 'Tsicar'. He lived in the same village as me. He kept catfish and sold them to the locals. He kept his fish in brick tanks. Didn't put them in ponds as the catfish will take walk abouts. Anyway his biggest cost was buying the fingerling (babies) and he managed to find out how to artificially inseminate the females. He was on his way to making money.  They then changed the Immigration rules and he had no choice but to go home back to S Africa. Anyone want to know about raising fish then see Tsicar's threads. A genuine nice guy and a perfectly acceptable racist.


 The way I see it only some one like myself who have spent quite some time in South Africa over a period of years could possibly comprehend the word "Acceptable Racist " actually spending time there especially in Places like Johannesburg is light years away from what some one may read in books etc and think that they have all the answers ,off topic I know so I will just mention it the one time as I can envisage were a statement like this could lead to  :Smile: .

----------


## Pragmatic

> Places like Johannesburg is light years away from what some one may read in books


 In fact that is where 'Tsicar' came from and where he went back to.



> "Acceptable Racist "


When I said Acceptable Racist I was referring to the fact that he never talked about it or tried to influence me. If he hadn't admitted it I'd never have known.

----------


## GracelessFawn

> I thought after a banana tree fruits you cut it back after you take the ripe bananas . And it then automatically grows a new shoot at the base. That's how they grow here. Are you in England?


You're right Pragmatic, you cut the trunk once the banana fruits are mature enough. Bananas have underground corms or rhizomes.  New bananas grow from the corms or rhizomes.  Sometimes, a single banana plant have 2-3 little banana plants growing right beside it, before the main plant have produced fruit.   

If you farm bananas, you have to control new banana growths.  If you have too many little plants growing at the same time,  it might be wise to get rid of the others, in order to maintain the quality and size of your banana fruits.  Depending on the variety, but where I am at, they only allow 3 banana plants, belonging in the same group, to bear fruit at the same time.  

I'm not in England.  I'm in SEA. :-)

----------


## crackerjack101

It'd be nice to have a few sheep.

----------


## GracelessFawn

> It'd be nice to have a few sheep.


I wonder if there's a market for lamb in Thailand.

----------


## crackerjack101

> I wonder if there's a market for lamb in Thailand.


I like lamb and LT could make lamb pies. Job done    :Smile:

----------


## GracelessFawn

Well, I'm sure some people eat lamb in Thailand, but I wonder what % of the population actually eat lamb, and what is the % for lamb demand in the market.

----------


## crackerjack101

> Well, I'm sure some people eat lamb in Thailand, but I wonder what % of the population actually eat lamb, and what is the % for lamb demand in the market.


Very few I should imagine as there don't appear to be any sheep. Well, I've never seen any. No matter, they'd keep the grass down. 

And we could shear them and make jumpers for the cold weather   ........ :Smile:

----------


## stroller

Lamb meat stinks, according to Thais. But rotten fish paste doesn't...

----------


## crepitas

Always wondered why I never see goat meat for sale in markets...taste like lamb?..Never tried it but assume Moslems must eat it?
Thought about getting some as grass cutters but they probably eat rubber tree bark..55.

----------


## GracelessFawn

> Always wondered why I never see goat meat for sale in markets...taste like lamb?..Never tried it but assume Moslems must eat it?
> Thought about getting some as grass cutters but they probably eat rubber tree bark..55.


Yup, goats eat rubber tree barks, affecting its smoothness, making things difficult for you when you're tapping rubber.  They also trample on the protruding roots of your rubber trees, damaging them in the long run.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Talked to a guy who owns a vineyard here in the sunny Okanagan Valley...There are so many vineyards now and demands for certain types of grapes, etc...He simply said you have to make sure you have a contract in place to supply a buyer, so you don't lose out...

So, let's get a confirmed order of 1,000 Mrs Loy Toy lamb pies with a contract to supply the lamb from Fawn Farms...That's how it has to be done now, apparently...

----------


## GracelessFawn

> So, let's get a confirmed order of 1,000 Mrs Loy Toy lamb pies with a contract to supply the lamb from Fawn Farms...That's how it has to be done now, apparently...


Lamb farming is bearable.  At least, you didn't appoint me to make the pies. heh

----------


## BaitongBoy

Good one, Fawn...That will be taken care of by Mrs LT and her team of expats...err...experts...once the ink is dry on the contract...

Be careful you don't hire an Aussie or Kiwi bloke to tend the flocks...

----------


## rickschoppers

I live on four rai in rural Isaan and my wife purchased three cows last summer while the BIL is the one in charge of feeding and caring for them. I know absolutely nothing about raising cattle and have been told two of the cows are prengant. They were bred just before I returned from the US and it is about four months from them delivering.

My BIL goes out each morning to cut grass for the cows and they seem to be well fed. He cared for the family cows and buffalo when he was young along with one of his brothers. My question is this. What kind of return can be expected from breeding cows? Since these cows seem to go for around 30,000 to 45,000 once they reach breeding age, is there any profit from this? I do not pay my BIL for taking care of the cows and my expenses, other than paying for the three female cows,  has been minimal. I get the feeling this was all done to give my BIL something to do and to have a social boost for "raising cows."

Worst case scenario is that I have a big BBQ at some point.

----------


## ausdavo

My sister in law has a milk licence but long hours and hard work. The question is what happens when they're too old to work? (No sons - as if they'd help!)

----------


## Pragmatic

> is there any profit from this?


Dairy farming where I live seems popular but as with most farmers I don't see them living the high life. I'll do my best to get some info on returns today.

----------


## Chico

*To this day i still still don't understand the prices of Thai cows,the meat is inedible and the cost per kilo is unbelievable ,where the meat goes is anyones guess.

*


> I live on four rai in rural Isaan and my wife purchased three cows last summer while the BIL is the one in charge of feeding and caring for them. I know absolutely nothing about raising cattle and have been told two of the cows are prengant. They were bred just before I returned from the US and it is about four months from them delivering.
> 
> My BIL goes out each morning to cut grass for the cows and they seem to be well fed. He cared for the family cows and buffalo when he was young along with one of his brothers. My question is this. What kind of return can be expected from breeding cows? Since these cows seem to go for around 30,000 to 45,000 once they reach breeding age, is there any profit from this? I do not pay my BIL for taking care of the cows and my expenses, other than paying for the three female cows,  has been minimal. I get the feeling this was all done to give my BIL something to do and to have a social boost for "raising cows."
> 
> Worst case scenario is that I have a big BBQ at some point.

----------


## Pragmatic

> To this day i still still don't understand the prices of Thai cows,the meat is inedible and the cost per kilo is unbelievable ,where the meat goes is anyones guess.


Chico different cow breeds, different meat texture. Similar to a feral chicken raised in a village to a chicken raised in a battery.

The cows bred for their meat and milk in Thailand are usually  Holstein Friesian

----------


## Chico

[The most popular cow that thais keep is zebu

QUOTE=Pragmatic;3460528]


> To this day i still still don't understand the prices of Thai cows,the meat is inedible and the cost per kilo is unbelievable ,where the meat goes is anyones guess.


Chico different cow breeds, different meat texture. Similar to a feral chicken raised in a village to a chicken raised in a battery.

The cows bred for their meat and milk in Thailand are usually  Holstein Friesian[/QUOTE]

----------


## Norton

> The cows bred for their meat and milk in Thailand are usually Holstein Friesian


For milk mostly. Very few in Isaan. Plenty in central/mountian regions where pasture is better. Most in Isaan are Brahma/Charolais mix. Good for riding. Not much good for eatin.

10 years ago the wife bought 3 calves. Raised them and sold at auction for a net loss. No doubt there must be someone making money in the cattle biz but like small farming doubt one will get rich.

----------


## Pragmatic

Friesian cattle farms seem popular where I live and around the Korat area. A pleasant day can be had at the Chok Chai farm.




Trying to get info from a farmer was a nightmare. I found out a calf costs 2,000 Baht. One that is ready for breeding will cost about 50,000 Baht. My informant was too busy to help. She supplements her farm with running the local milk cooperative.

----------


## Norton

> Korat area


Yes. Lots there. Big milk producing area.

----------


## Pragmatic

Anyway here's a link to dairy farming in Thailand. Some interesting facts.

http://animal.ifas.ufl.edu/elzo/pres...trittriron.pdf

----------


## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by Pragmatic
> 
> Korat area
> 
> 
> Yes. Lots there. Big milk producing area.


Producing bovine milk for who?
Export...?

 ::chitown::

----------


## Norton

> Producing bovine milk for who?
> Export...?


Foremost for local and export.
Meiji Dairies more local I believe.

----------


## Chico

Don't the buyers come around where you live.!





> Originally Posted by Pragmatic
> 
> The cows bred for their meat and milk in Thailand are usually Holstein Friesian
> 
> 
> For milk mostly. Very few in Isaan. Plenty in central/mountian regions where pasture is better. Most in Isaan are Brahma/Charolais mix. Good for riding. Not much good for eatin.
> 
> 10 years ago the wife bought 3 calves. Raised them and sold at auction for a net loss. No doubt there must be someone making money in the cattle biz but like small farming doubt one will get rich.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Meiji Dairies more local I believe.


 'Dutch Milk' here south of Buriram.

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## Pragmatic

> Producing bovine milk for who? Export...?


A little dated but


> The total amount of raw milk production in 2007 was 770  000 tonnes. About 95–97 percent of this production was processed for  drinking milk. The remaining 3–5 percent was processed for cheese.

----------


## Norton

> Don't the buyers come around where you live.!


Saturday auction in Roiet town they do. Been there few times just for the entertainment. Never saw a holstien. Brahma and buffalo seem all the rage. Some good Belgian beef ranches in Sakhon Nakhon. Tasty beef it is.

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## rickschoppers

Our three cows are Brahman and I have no clue what are to be done with them. They are not milking cows since they are the wrong breed. My brother-in-law has been offered 45,000 baht for one of our cows, but do not know how they determine value here in the village.

I will be happy to get the initial investment out of the cows which would make the entire venture a waste of time. If the calves, which are due to be born in four months, were to sold for 30,000 baht each, then that would get my attention.

----------


## Chico

Rick look on TV there are some good threads over,will give you a good idea what to look for..




> Our three cows are Brahman and I have no clue what are to be done with them. They are not milking cows since they are the wrong breed. My brother-in-law has been offered 45,000 baht for one of our cows, but do not know how they determine value here in the village.
> 
> I will be happy to get the initial investment out of the cows which would make the entire venture a waste of time. If the calves, which are due to be born in four months, were to sold for 30,000 baht each, then that would get my attention.

----------


## OhOh

> A pleasant day can be had at the Chok Chai farm.


They appear to be outside, are there no problems with heat, insects or diseases?

----------


## OhOh

> Raised them and sold at auction for a net loss.


Western accounting eh?

----------


## ludwig

> Our three cows are Brahman and I have no clue what are to be done with them. They are not milking cows since they are the wrong breed. My brother-in-law has been offered 45,000 baht for one of our cows, but do not know how they determine value here in the village.
> 
> I will be happy to get the initial investment out of the cows which would make the entire venture a waste of time. If the calves, which are due to be born in four months, were to sold for 30,000 baht each, then that would get my attention.


You want to source some Wagyu semen ( available in Siam ) as it is the only breed that will upgrade a heat tolerant breed like Brahman into something remotely edible and unique in one cross.

----------


## NZdick1983

> Be careful you don't hire an Aussie or Kiwi bloke to tend the flocks...


OY! I resemble that remark lol... :bananaman:

----------


## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> Our three cows are Brahman and I have no clue what are to be done with them. They are not milking cows since they are the wrong breed. My brother-in-law has been offered 45,000 baht for one of our cows, but do not know how they determine value here in the village.
> 
> I will be happy to get the initial investment out of the cows which would make the entire venture a waste of time. If the calves, which are due to be born in four months, were to sold for 30,000 baht each, then that would get my attention.
> 
> 
> You want to source some Wagyu semen ( available in Siam ) as it is the only breed that will upgrade a heat tolerant breed like Brahman into something remotely edible and unique in one cross.


Interesting.

----------


## wasabi

That way you will have to practice artificial insemination, a few YouTube clips should give you an idea of getting the job done.

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## Pragmatic

Is this guy gullable or fcuking nuts?




Try some of his other vids.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSo...Ec-ksEkynuRc_Q

----------


## Troy

> You want to source some Wagyu semen ( available in Siam ) as it is the only breed that will upgrade a heat tolerant breed like Brahman into something remotely edible and unique in one cross.


After you've eaten ants eggs, rhinoceros beetles, pork testicles and buffalo placenta along with frogs, rat snake and cicada, you will find Thai beef more than adequate. Hell, even the Wagyu semen sounds more inviting than some of the stuff I've been offered.

----------


## NamPikToot

> After you've eaten ants eggs, rhinoceros beetles, pork testicles and buffalo placenta along with frogs, rat snake and cicada, you will find Thai beef more than adequate. Hell, even the Wagyu semen sounds more inviting than some of the stuff I've been offered.


 :rofl:  and that is why we can survive on 30 thb : £1

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## can123

He is trying to get money by vlogging. His videos are poor as are those on his list of recommended vloggers. Please see right side of page. They are useless. One is an American who is unable to spell "Eel". He volunteered his services as an English teacher. Warren Gerdes is an Australian who cannot stop talking. The rest are best avoided too.

----------


## cyrille

> Is this guy gullable or fcuking nuts?


By 2:48 he still hadn't got to his point, so I can't help. 

Sorry.

----------


## Dragonfly94

> Is this guy gullable or fcuking nuts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try some of his other vids.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSoqj7YFPEc-ksEkynuRc_Q



He ran bars in Pattaya in the early 2000's then a thriving ebay business from Pratunam, then a UK taxi driver, only been here a few months this time. One of the nice vloggers. He had a car wash business in his village then others set up, also a snooker table, same happened. I reckon cannabis growing might do well when they legalise it

----------


## Pragmatic

Why does he keep setting up businesses when he knows what to expect. For instance he set up the cow thing when he wasn't even in the country. FFS what kind of farang idiot would trust his Thai family to do it for him? I personally wouldn't trust them to look after me dog.   ::spin::

----------


## Maanaam

> You want to source some Wagyu semen ( available in Siam ) as it is the only breed that will upgrade a heat tolerant breed like Brahman into something remotely edible and unique in one cross.


I realise the zebu and brahman cattle here don't seem to produce good meat, but there are plenty of heat tolerant breeds. Texas longhorn? What do the big cattle stations in Aussie raise?

A possible reason the local beef is horrible is possibly the slaughter, butchering, and aging. From what I've seen, butchering is unscientific chop and hack, and there is no hanging or aging.
I did consider buying a yearling. Rest it and fatten it for a few months, then slaughter cleanly and let it hang in a chiller for a week or two before butchering properly.

In NZ, dairy cows that are milked out are slaughtered for the US burger market as that's all they're good for.

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## Dragonfly94

There's money in fighting chickens, the good uns cost a fortune and then there are the winnings, cheap to feed.

----------


## Neverna

What a boring presentation. 

Anyway, at the end he asked: "Where did we go wrong? What did we do wrong?"

He knows the answer. He got into something he knew nothing about and had no real interest apat from making money. He spent his time in England relying on others in Thailand to do the work ... with predictable results.

I know someone who makes good money from cows; breeding them, rearing them for a while then selling them on. He knows what he's doing, he loves it and resigned from a good job in order to do it full time. He did it as a hobby for a few years before that. He also bought a field for the cows to graze in.

----------


## bowie

Well, all things considered he made out fine. 

Getting involved in a business you know little or nothing about and supervising from afar, he should have lost a ton. He pretty much broke even only losing time and labor. 

Story from a few years back about a similar situation, foreigner getting involved in pig farming - virus came along and killed off his stock. He did lose everything.

----------


## Neverna

There's a good thread here on TD somewhere about a member rearing cows. If I recall correctly, he made money for a while (a year or two?) but then it went tits up due to disease.

----------


## Pragmatic

> tory from a few years back about a similar situation, foreigner getting involved in pig farming - virus came along and killed off his stock. He did lose everything.


 Used to be a poster on here that took up chicken farming, only to be wiped out by bird flu. I won't mention his name.

----------


## bowie

Lessons learned - stick with what you know - 

Farming, well, I can't do it, far to much work, labor intensive, you have to know what you're doing, livestock requires constant care, crops; seed, sow, irrigate, reap, and, then there are the hazards, as noted, disease, floods, droughts, really fraught with danger. 

BIL does shrimp farming - one year lost I think it was 8 ponds of shrimp to flooding. Difficult ventures, you eat the loss and very difficult to recover from. 

There are a few real farmers on this website, they can speak volumes. KUDO's to you.

----------


## nidhogg

> Lessons learned - stick with what you know - 
> 
> Farming, well, I can't do it, far to much work, labor intensive, you have to know what you're doing, livestock requires constant care, crops; seed, sow, irrigate, reap, and, then there are the hazards, as noted, disease, floods, droughts, really fraught with danger. 
> 
> BIL does shrimp farming - one year lost I think it was 8 ponds of shrimp to flooding. Difficult ventures, you eat the loss and very difficult to recover from. 
> 
> There are a few real farmers on this website, they can speak volumes. KUDO's to you.


This is a common problem - the most common is someone thinking they can open a bar here with no previous experience in the trade and make a living off it. Running a bar anywhere is effing hard work, and if you have never done it, it is a good way to lose your pot fast.

----------


## Pragmatic

> This is a common problem - the most common is someone thinking they can open a bar here with no previous experience in the trade and make a living off it. Running a bar anywhere is effing hard work, and if you have never done it, it is a good way to lose your pot fast.


 Similar out in the sticks. As soon as farang moves in wifey comes up with a sureproof way of making money. Buy some land, which she probably owns anyway, or she gets commission from the seller, hubby is none the wiser. What should we grow? Looking around, most people seem to be growing cassava. Okay cassava it is. Unless you do all the work yourselves you won't make a living with cassava. And if you do it'll take about 25 years, after buying the land, before you recoup that outlay. As the guy in the vid basically puts it, 'you can't make a living here from farming'. And like any manual work here, it's hard sweaty work.

----------


## jamescollister

Said it before, be it a bar, farm, resort, if it wouldn't pay in the west, no chance in Thailand.

Over the years seen lots of farangs with big plans and little money, build a resort and they will come, same with bars etc, but the tourists don't come.

Knew a pork buyer from the UK, one of the big stores, wouldn't look at a farm worth less than a mil US and that was over 10 years ago.

Know 2 bar, restaurant, come hotel owners who have done well, both arrived over 20 years ago, Thai wife, bought land, cheap at the time in tourist areas, land valves and tourism  grow over many years.
They made money long term, probably lost money for the first 10 years or so.

There is no money in small farming end of story, own a bar shop house, live upstairs and leave a business and a home for your kids, long term winner.

Everything is long term, unless you are into short term cons, seen a few of them over the years.

----------


## bowie

> wifey comes up with a sureproof way of making money. Buy some land... most people seem to be growing cassava... it'll take about 25 years, after buying the land, before you recoup that outlay.


Wifey says – yup, “sure fire” can’t go wrong, falang cash machine – all you have to do is buy the land, we’ll take care of the rest. Cassava, yup, seems like everybody’s growing cassava. Let’s enter the highly competitive cassava growing market. Sure fire money maker, what could possibly go wrong. 

Worked in Indiana a half year, USA farming country, folks would, (as second jobs for "mad money") rent the land, buy the seed, hire the machinery to plow and sow, rent the irrigation equipment, hire an overseer to monitor, hire the machinery to harvest, sell… and, uhm, count the cash. Problem is everybody’s doing the same, bumper crop year prices plunge, small cash received, bad yield year, high prices, small amount to sell, small cash received. As per the players, most years most made minor moneys USD $1-3k or so, before taxes. Some years “nothing”. And, a few years “losses”. Invested money in rents and seed are at risk. Weather is the killer. One bad storm at the wrong time can kill a crop.




> Everything is long term


Long Term – it has to be “long term”. No “get-rich-quick” schemes in farming. As Prag notes 25 years just to pay for the land investment. And, well, how many folk have accumulated a significant cash investment stash earlier enough to be in it for “the long haul?”, and, just how many are willing to invest their labor in the long haul venture?

Easier to open a beer bar, hire the help and watch the money slowly but surely, and sometimes not so "slowly", flow out of your nest egg stash. Well, at least you’ll get your beer at wholesale cost.

----------


## Maanaam

> No “get-rich-quick” schemes in farming.


There are if you look to unusual crops/stock and go about it intelligently.
There are crops that make excellent money for relatively small outlay if you have the right conditions. It's just a matter of discerning whether or not you have those conditions.
Wasabi is an example of something difficult to grow unless the conditions are right, but if you happened to have a grove of forest with the right light underneath and the right soil and weather, you could make a fortune. I imagine there could be such places in Northern Thailand.
Lavender oil is another, and for Thailand where labour is cheap, saffron could be another. Truffles, perhaps. If you look around the shops and see what is expensive, you'll get some ideas. Vanilla. Black chickens. Any number of speciality oils...jojoba, lavender, argan, etc. There's inumerable oportunities if you look, research, and are wise about it.

----------


## Pragmatic

Thread seems to be drifting off topic a little so...... I'm no farmer and I have no wish to make money here in Ting Tong Land but if push comes to shove then I'd take up RAT farming. I don't believe Thais do it and there is definitely an export market available to the likes of Cambodia & Vietnam. Thais seem to think that rats only caught after the rice harvest are worth eating due to the taste from them eating the rice. But what if you can farm rats, feed them on rice, and have them on the menu all year? I believe rat is currently fetching 200 Baht per kilo. Nearly twice the price of pork. 
Surely there can't be too big an outlay to start a business after first finding a buyer. 




> *Cambodian rat meat: A growing export market*


 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28863315

----------


## bowie

[QUOTE=Pragmatic;3856720]Thread seems to be drifting off topic a little so...... then I'd take up RAT farming.[/QUOTE]


Well, Prag, Rat Farming is a good idea. 

My entrepreneur days are long over, but, this idea could be run with, a good business plan and prospectus would easily attract investors. Needs to get put in the right hands for a successful run. 

Another guy made a ton farming cockroaches in China:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cockroach-farming-a-booming-business-in-china/

But, on the off-topic subject of entrepreneur  it does take a certain type of talented individual to turn a good idea into a profitable business. I know a couple of successes and far more failures. Going convention is of twenty start-ups, one is successful, three breakeven and the rest fail within a five year period.

----------


## Norton

“I bought raw dog meat at 26 yuan (per kilogram) last year and this year it went up to 40 yuan,”
125 baht per kilo. Not to shabby.

https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/...ival-in-china/

----------


## Klondyke

> RAT farming.  I believe rat is currently fetching 200 Baht per kilo.


The idea was here 75 years ago...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Rat_(Clavell_novel)

----------


## Maanaam

> But what if you can farm rats, feed them on rice, and have them on the menu all year? I believe rat is currently fetching 200 Baht per kilo. Nearly twice the price of pork. 
> Surely there can't be too big an outlay to start a business after first finding a buyer.


And I have no doubt you could source 3rd grade rice at basement prices. Great idea. I'm sure they'd be easy to breed and keep.
Yes, find the buyer first.

Yes, went off topic slightly, but I did mention black chickens. They're expensive to buy fresh or frozen and can't be too much harder to raise than ordinary fowl. Rarity is the thing, or in the case of rats, abundance.

----------


## jamescollister

One thing everybody keeps forgetting, small farming is subsistence farming, so no real money.
Once you get big enough to start earning real money the game changes and you become a business, tax, VAT, health certification, EPA permits, planing permission.

Workers need to go on the books, pay national insurance, healthcare and health and safety come in, it all costs.
A few pigs, rats, chickens sold at local markets are one thing, 100s of pigs or anything else sold by contract, taxman and other Government agencies will be onto you sooner than later'

Law here is similar to western countries, they just don't apply to peon farmers and rich subsistence farmer are few and far between.

There is a 15% agriculture tax, once you earn [on the books] more than the allowed amount, that tax becomes due.

----------


## bowie

> One thing everybody keeps forgetting, small farming is subsistence farming, so no real money.
> Once you get big enough to start earning real money the game changes and you become a business, tax, VAT, health certification, EPA permits, planing permission.
> 
> Workers need to go on the books, pay national insurance, healthcare and health and safety come in, it all costs.
> A few pigs, rats, chickens sold at local markets are one thing, 100s of pigs or anything else sold by contract, taxman and other Government agencies will be onto you sooner than later'
> 
> Law here is similar to western countries, they just don't apply to peon farmers and rich subsistence farmer are few and far between.
> 
> There is a 15% agriculture tax, once you earn [on the books] more than the allowed amount, that tax becomes due.



Yup

Unless you intend to start a Thai Cottage Industry utilizing cheap family labor to support the family. 

To start, you need a valid idea. You need a market -whose gonna buy and how much? You need a hook  what puts you ahead of the competition?  

Then you need to do the financials  how much is; licensing, insurance, labor, administrative, sales, operations, etc.

Then  define your start-up costs? Business building cost, sales and marketing, salaries, Just how long will you be supporting your labor and operating costs as your sales develop? How far done the road is your break-even point? When will the dollar meter reverse and just how much money will you have spent before you actually start seeing a positive cash flow?

Once you have these details accounted for and documented  then you can write a valid business plan and start raising money yup, the fun part, financing a start-up. Remember though - you need a good chunk of change just to get to this point in the game. Sourcing investment money and investors. Realize there are significant costs just to get here in the game. Legal and licensing fees. Insurance. 

Now  heres hoping you business plan is attractive enough to solicit adequate funds for your start-up. Now the real fun begins  hitting the street with your hand out  well, good luck. You are attempting the most difficult job in the world, talking people out of their hard earned cash and offering nothing but your word. 

I could write volumes. Anyway, underfunding a venture is a killer, you get half-way to profitability and run out of cash. Then you wind up losing control of the company you worked so hard to start-up to raise mezzanine financing to hold you till profitability.

Anyway without doing an investigation, any type of foreign business venture USD $1M+ minimum to start. 

And, yes, there are always a few exceptions to the rule, and, yes, someone will hit the lottery, but, it wont be me

----------


## Pragmatic

> Unless you intend to start a Thai Cottage Industry utilizing cheap family labor to support the family.


 Keep family out of your business. They cause more problems than they're worth IMO. If they mess up you can't sack them unless you want problems with your missus. Your missus will want to pay them more than locals people also. I could go on but it was one of the first things that was drilled into me when arriving here, 'don't employ family'. After seeing other farangs who did employ family and wifey's friends, I was advised right. Sorry going off topic again.

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## bowie

> Keep family out of your business. They cause more problems than they're worth IMO. If they mess up you can't sack them unless you want problems with your missus. Your missus will want to pay them more than locals people also. I could go on but it was one of the first things that was drilled into me when arriving here, 'don't employ family'. After seeing other farangs who did employ family and wifey's friends, I was advised right. Sorry going off topic again.


Yup, 100% correct. Even in close-knit family businesses, ego's, bickering, arguments over inconsequential minutia occur. Downright feuds develop over stupid stuff. Mom & Pop's work fine while Pop is in charge, then fall apart when turned over to the kids. I have seen it and it ain't pretty. Actually saw a brother + sister team up against a brother and cause a division to fail. Cost 'em a bunch of money and the two "winning" siblings were smiling about it. Vindictive idiots. Hurt quite a few good employees who lost their jobs.

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## Troy

> Keep family out of your business. They cause more problems than they're worth IMO. If they mess up you can't sack them unless you want problems with your missus. Your missus will want to pay them more than locals people also. I could go on but it was one of the first things that was drilled into me when arriving here, 'don't employ family'. After seeing other farangs who did employ family and wifey's friends,


I imagine a few have got it wrong but no need to tar all with the same brush...there's good and bad everywhere in this world.

I always use the extended family and it has worked out okay. Some have livestock, some rice and we have a few rice fields, some vegetables and a small fish pond. We pay the going rate and receive the same rate when helping in the other farms. We run a slate for fish and veg, similar to the mom&pop shops and get paid in rice after harvest. We provide some feed for the pigs and get paid a fattened piglet or two in return. We have cows looked after by an experienced uncle and we share the sale of offspring. We also rent out our land in the off season for people to grow water melon and share the profit.

 I run the whole thing at a loss but that's because I give away the rice and fish to those that need it. In return I have the respect of several generations, which I kinda like and think it was money well spent. I still haven't bought a utility tractor or decent machinery, the outlay cant be recouped so we'll stay with the 'lot Thai' I bought 15 years ago, which is shared between 3 or 4 families.

Rained last night with the rice cut and drying in the fields...it's not an easy life for them and they don''t have an escape like I do.

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## ootai

I have been involved in "farming" here since 2002 and I/we have not really made any money (i.e. profit) as yet but what we have achieved is a way for some people in the village ,including some family members to make a bit at different times throughout the year. Have a friend of the missus, second cousin I think, who does work for us (shares the returns) on a regular basis.

That is he drives our tractor/s, truck, small excavator, harvester and repairs them plus our motorbikes, whipper snippers and lawn mower. We grow rice and cassava and the family and friends work to harvest the cassava. Just recently had a bucket fitted to the front of our small tractor to collect and load the cassava so now the missus is getting some work as a contractor in that area. 

We have had cows, but that didn't work out as the ones looking after the cattle (we were in Aussie at the time) couldn't wait for the 2 years for the cows to have calves and then for the calves to grow big enough to sell. 

We have grown mushrooms and this did actually make a profit but was deemed too hard as it required getting out in the mornings at about 4am and then a 260km round trip to sell.

A friend of the wife is growing rats so we will how that goes. I asked him if people would buy them as they only like "wild" ones, his response was they won't know once the rats are dead.

The missus once tried sugar cane but only broke even.

So in the end I don't think there is any money to be made, as in profit, from farming at the village level but it does keep the money circulating. Given the land ownership system her in Thailand I don't think there will be land holdings large enough to make farming profitable, other than those that already exist, and therefore in will remain subsistence farming.
I don't think that cooperatives will work here either as people don't trust each other enough for that to work well and there would always be the problem of equalising the manual input of different people without there being arguments.

And last of all don't forget about "Thainess" which requires there to always be "elites" and "peasants".

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## beerlaodrinker

> “I bought raw dog meat at 26 yuan (per kilogram) last year and this year it went up to 40 yuan,”
> 125 baht per kilo. Not to shabby.
> 
> https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/...ival-in-china/


Could be a good business opportunity for herr stroller.

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## beerlaodrinker

> Keep family out of your business. They cause more problems than they're worth IMO. If they mess up you can't sack them unless you want problems with your missus. Your missus will want to pay them more than locals people also. I could go on but it was one of the first things that was drilled into me when arriving here, 'don't employ family'. After seeing other farangs who did employ family and wifey's friends, I was advised right. Sorry going off topic again.


Unfortunately Nepotism is king in asia. More so in the philippines than thailand i think. Flippers are to clanish and dont like working with outsiders ( from other provinces) fuck nepotism i reckon. Theres no way i would go into any kind of biz with my Lao rellos or my Australian relatives.hard to be objective when yer ralated to the cunts. Its not like i dont trust either of them , just think business and family shouldnt mix. I could be wrong. But im not planning on finding out the hard way.

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