#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > Speakers Corner >  >  American coup in Venezuela

## The Shining Light

After America's incessant whinging over Russia's alleged meddling in the US elections via some facebook ads, it then tries to instate it's own puppet as president in the country by literally overthrowing the democratically elected leader Maduro after "thousands" protest.

Bare-faced and shameless hypocrisy - yet again- brought to you by the bullies of the world.

Disgusting.

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## HuangLao

Expected.
Normal and historic American policy. 

Expanding the empire.

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## buriramboy

Can't be leaving all that oil in the hands of socialists.

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## Klondyke

Who needs an election?

(Caring for the "well-being of all Venezuelan citizens", knowing they have no money for such 2-years comedy...)

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## foobar

Venezuela really fell apart after the CIA whacked Chavez.

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## harrybarracuda



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## foobar

Like a moth to a flame...

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## harrybarracuda

> Like a moth to a flame...


Alternatively whackjobs like flies to a turd....

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## russellsimpson

What will be interesting is what happens if the US doesn't pull their diplomats out by Sunday.

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## bowie

> Alternatively whackjobs like flies to a turd....


Come on Harry... wackjobs, on TD? Shirley you jest. (Or is it surely?) 

Hear, Hear... Tin Foil Hats for All


Bad America, BAD BAD BAD... hear me, get outta there, bring ALL troops home, build the wall, seal the borders, cancel all foreign aid become the role model for Isolationism

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## Humbert

The dictator Maduro has bankrupted his country. It's citizens are starving and suffering the effects of 1000% inflation. Thousands are fleeing every day. The recent election was a fraud with Maduro claiming victory. Journalists and members of the opposition have been jailed. And we have morons on this forum claiming the US is the bully.

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## harrybarracuda

> The dictator Maduro has bankrupted his country. It's citizens are starving and suffering the effects of 1000% inflation. Thousands are fleeing every day. The recent election was a fraud with Maduro claiming victory. Journalists and members of the opposition have been jailed. And we have morons on this forum claiming the US is the bully.


Whackjobs, dear boy, whackjobs. They're everywhere. Planes didn't fly into buildings on 9/11, the Moon Landings never happened, the government is run by shapeshifting lizard men, etc.

Gullible and retarded at the same time, bless them.

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## buriramboy

> The dictator Maduro has bankrupted his country. It's citizens are starving and suffering the effects of 1000% inflation. Thousands are fleeing every day. The recent election was a fraud with Maduro claiming victory. Journalists and members of the opposition have been jailed. And we have morons on this forum claiming the US is the bully.


Nice to see you supporting Trump on Venezuela.

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## bowie

> Gullible and retarded at the same time, bless them.


Make the rest of us look pretty damn good don't they?

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## Dragonfly

> Like a moth to a flame...


that would be harry, indeed  :rofl:

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## Dragonfly

> The dictator Maduro has bankrupted his country. It's citizens are starving and suffering the effects of 1000% inflation. Thousands are fleeing every day. The recent election was a fraud with Maduro claiming victory. Journalists and members of the opposition have been jailed. And we have morons on this forum claiming the US is the bully.


how naive and so American, how cute

one doesn't exclude the other, like 2 packs of wolf feeding on a lamb

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## Humbert

Got any thing else other than worn out cliches to describe the reality of conditions in Venezuela? Please tell us what a socialist paradise it is.

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## cyrille

Maybe you can explain Humbert.

Why does the fact that Venezuela looks economically screwed rule out the possibility that the US is acting as an opportunistic bully?

Because that appears to make no sense whatsoever.

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## Humbert

> Nice to see you supporting Trump on Venezuela


I'm condemning Maduro not supporting Trump. Please get back to your perms.

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## buriramboy

America puts sanctions on a country then blames the local dictator for the state of the economy so they can instigate unrest and impose their own dictator on the people. Rinse and repeat all over the world.

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## Dragonfly

> Got any thing else other than worn out cliches to describe the reality of conditions in Venezuela? Please tell us what a socialist paradise it is.


it could be if the US wasn't fucking around with economic embargo and US Treasury restrictions for oil payments

can't have a successful socialist country in this world, that would be a national security threat for the US  :Smile: 

Thank god, we have the EU now  :Smile:

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## OhOh

> to describe the reality of conditions in Venezuela


I doubt anyone would suggest the country is currently in a good state. You blaming one person  is , IMHO, the contentious part.

Here is one person's opinion on the multiple causes.

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14238

Unfortunately the fact that one countries leader, along with his appointed government officials and vassals, have called for the toppling of a duly democratically elected government suggest a certain lack of respect for international norms, their own insecure positions and their own countries historic record of illegal foreign meddlings. 



Is their mirror being honest and but nobody is listening?

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## Humbert

> America puts sanctions on a country then blames the local dictator for the state of the economy


Err...US limited sanctions on Venezuela and some individuals did not bankrupt the country. Massive corruption and incompetence by it's leaders did.

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## Dragonfly

> Err...US limited sanctions on Venezuela and some individuals did not bankrupt the country. Massive corruption and incompetence by it's leaders did.


it only takes a few targets to take down a weak country,

like the US cares for incompetence and corruption  :rofl: 

Pentagon? hello?

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## cisco999

What impact has this had on the price pf poontang?

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## buriramboy

> What impact has this had on the price pf poontang?


Can have a 3some for $5.

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## foobar

> Whackjobs, dear boy, whackjobs. They're everywhere. Planes didn't fly into buildings on 9/11, the Moon Landings never happened, the government is run by shapeshifting lizard men, etc.
> 
> Gullible and retarded at the same time, bless them.


_
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal  fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's  argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by  that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a  straw man._

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## foobar

> What impact has this had on the price pf poontang?


It's not the price that is the issue more personal safety.

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## baldrick

> And we have morons on this forum claiming the US is the bully.


canada was there first

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## stroller

> Bad America, BAD BAD BAD... hear me, get outta there, bring ALL troops home, build the wall, seal the borders, cancel all foreign aid become the role model for Isolationism

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## harrybarracuda

> _
> A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal  fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's  argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by  that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a  straw man._


That would probably be true if the forum whackjobs hadn't actively participated in just about every looney tunes fairy story thread on the forum.

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## harrybarracuda

> I doubt anyone would suggest the country is currently in a good state. You blaming one person  is , IMHO, the contentious part.


That would be contentious.

It was two.

Chavez started it with his populist nonsense; Maduro is simply hammering the final nails into the coffin.

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## harrybarracuda

> Maybe you can explain Humbert.
> 
> Why does the fact that Venezuela looks economically screwed rule out the possibility that the US is acting as an opportunistic bully?
> 
> Because that appears to make no sense whatsoever.


Would you rather America participated in Maduro's crimes against humanity by propping him up with oil purchases?

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## foobar

> That would probably be true if the forum whackjobs hadn't actively participated in just about every looney tunes fairy story thread on the forum.


It's true unless you can quote posts from this thread stating "planes didn't fly into buildings on 9/11, the Moon Landings never  happened, the government is run by shapeshifting lizard men, etc." ..if you are referring to other threads then you are off topic.

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## SKkin

It may not just be about oil. Hadn't Chavez already repatriated a lot of gold before the CIA shot him with their cancer gun...


Venezuela gold holdings in Bank of England soar on Deutsche deal: sources
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-ve...-idUKKCN1PF1Z8




> CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelas gold holdings in the Bank of England  have jumped after it closed out a gold swap deal with Deutsche Bank,  according to two sources, as Britain remains reluctant to release gold  held for the troubled OPEC nation. 
> 
> The government of Nicolas Maduro has since last year been seeking to  repatriate about $550 million in gold from the Bank of England on fears  it could be caught up in international sanctions on the country.
> 
> Its  holdings at the bank more than doubled in December to 31 tonnes, or  around $1.3 billion, after Venezuela returned funds it had borrowed from  Deutsche Bank AG (DBKGn.DE) through a financing arrangement that uses gold as collateral, known as a swap, one of the sources said. 
> 
> Under  the deal struck with Deutsche Bank in 2015, Venezuela put up 17 tonnes  of gold in exchange for a loan, according to one of the sources who  asked not to be identified because they are not authorized to speak  publicly about the issue. 
> 
> The countrys gold holdings fell to 134  tonnes in November compared with 150 tonnes at the start of 2018,  according to central bank statistics. 
> ...


more at the link...






> become the role model for Isolationism


That's the typical War Party MO. Call any who speak out against imperialism, militarism and global meddling, isolationists.

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## harrybarracuda

> What impact has this had on the price pf poontang?


Probably as cheap as fuck as long as you don't mind them in the anorexic spectrum.

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## buriramboy

Chavez daughter is apparently worth over $4 billion. Who says socialism doesn't work.

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## harrybarracuda

> Chavez daughter is apparently worth over $4 billion. Who says socialism doesn't work.


It's a classic and oft-told tale.

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## foobar

> Chavez daughter is apparently worth over $4 billion. Who says socialism doesn't work.


According to the American newspaper(Diario Las Américas) and regurgitated by the Daily Mail...

But, don't worry t'arry will swallow the lot and lick America's balls clean without the slightest hesitation.

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## HuangLao

....and some will never get it.

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## harrybarracuda

> It's true unless you can quote posts from this thread stating "planes didn't fly into buildings on 9/11, the Moon Landings never  happened, the government is run by shapeshifting lizard men, etc." ..if you are referring to other threads then you are off topic.


Since it's off topic you can go and search for them you tin foil turnip.

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## harrybarracuda

> Hadn't Chavez already repatriated a lot of gold before the CIA shot him with their cancer gun...


at least you're saving foobar a bit of work.

 :rofl:

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## harrybarracuda

> According to the American newspaper(Diario Las Américas) and regurgitated by the Daily Mail...
> 
> But, don't worry t'arry will swallow the lot and lick America's balls clean without the slightest hesitation.


The Tinfoil turnip equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and squealing "LALALALALAICAN'THEARYOULALALALA".

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## harrybarracuda

The Economist summed it up neatly:




> Venezuela was once the envy of Latin America, until a long stagnation in living standards brought a populist strongman to power. But popularity is hard to maintain. The greater the desperation of the populist, the greater the willingness to accept long-run risks in exchange for short-run pay-offs. Whether or not the populist survives to see it, the day of reckoning eventually arrives. And it is always the people that suffer most.


https://www.economist.com/finance-an...shed-venezuela

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## The Shining Light

This is simply about America's theft being threatened.

Venezuela, one of the largest oil reserves on earth...and they are poor?

Nope, it's because they have been drained by having to use the petro dollar.

Maduro just released the petro, a crytocurrency that was intended to bring the profit back to him and his people, rather than being leeched by the US.

That's why they've done this.

Exactly the same as when they destroyed Libya. Gaddafi was introducing the Gold Dinar for the same reasons, and the US wouldn't have it.

The US truly is "The Great Satan", pillaging the world with impunity.

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## uncle junior

> it's because they have been drained by having to use the petro dollar.
> 
> Maduro just released the petro, a crytocurrency that was intended to bring the profit back to him and his people, rather than being leeched by the US.


uh huh

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## harrybarracuda

> This is simply about America's theft being threatened.
> 
> Venezuela, one of the largest oil reserves on earth...and they are poor?
> 
> Nope, it's because they have been drained by having to use the petro dollar.


You're a fucking moron. When you changed nicks you should have tried changing brains.

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## harrybarracuda



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## Klondyke

*Before Venezuela, US has long involvement in Latin America*
By The Associated Press
today

Some of the most notable U.S. interventions in Latin America:

1846: The United States invades Mexico and captures Mexico City in 1847. A peace treaty the following year gives the U.S. more than half of Mexico’s territory — what is now most of the western United States.

1903: The U.S. engineers Panamanian independence from Colombia and gains sovereign rights over the zone where the Panama Canal would connect Atlantic and Pacific shipping routes.

1903: Cuba and the U.S. sign a treaty allowing near-total U.S. control of Cuban affairs. U.S. establishes a naval base at Guantanamo Bay.

1914: U.S. troops occupy the Mexican port of Veracruz for seven months in an attempt to sway developments in the Mexican Revolution.

1954: Guatemalan President Jacobo Arbenz is overthrown in a CIA-backed coup.

1961: The U.S.-backed Bay of Pigs invasion fails to overthrow Soviet-backed Cuban leader Fidel Castro but Washington continues to launch attempts to assassinate Castro and dislodge his government.

1964: Leftist President Joao Goulart of Brazil is overthrown in a U.S.-backed coup that installs a military government lasting until the 1980s.

1965: U.S. forces land in the Dominican Republic to intervene in a civil war.

1970s: Argentina, Chile and allied South American nations launch brutal campaign of repression and assassination aimed at perceived leftist threats, known as Operation Condor, often with U.S. support.

1980s: Reagan administration backs anti-Communist Contra forces against Nicaragua’s Sandinista government and backs the Salvadoran government against leftist FMLN rebels.

1983: U.S. forces invade Caribbean island of Grenada after accusing the government of allying itself with Communist Cuba.

1989: U.S. invades Panama to oust strongman Manuel Noriega.

FILE - In this Dec. 26, 1989 file photo, U.S. soldiers take aim while searching suspects detained outside the home of a business associate of Manuel Noriega in Panama City. In 1989, the U.S. invaded Panama to oust strongman Manuel Noriega. (AP Photo/Ezequiel Becerra, File)


1994: A U.S.-led invasion of Haiti is launched to remove the military regime installed by a 1991 coup that ousted President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. The invasion restores Aristide.

2002: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez is ousted for two days before retaking power. He and his allies accuse the U.S. of tacit support for the coup attempt.

2009: Honduran President Manuel Zelaya overthrown by military. U.S. accused of worsening situation by insufficient condemnation of the coup.

https://apnews.com/8c99384884df4e1293690c797682f0ad

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## Klondyke

^Wondering why this one was omitted:

1973: Chilean coup d'état was a watershed moment in both the history of Chile and the Cold War. Following an extended period of social unrest and political tension between the opposition-controlled Congress of Chile and the socialist President Salvador Allende, as well as economic warfare ordered by US President Richard Nixon,[4] Allende was overthrown by the armed forces and national police.[5][6]

During the air raids and ground attacks that preceded the coup, Allende gave his final speech, in which he vowed to stay in the presidential palace, refusing offers of safe passage should he choose exile over confrontation.[12] Direct witness accounts of Allende's death agree that he killed himself in the palace.[13][14]

Before the coup, Chile had been hailed as a beacon of democracy and political stability for decades; whilst the rest of South America had been plagued by military juntas and Caudillismo. The collapse of Chilean democracy ended a streak of democratic governments in Chile, which had held democratic elections since 1932.[15] Historian Peter Winn characterised the 1973 coup as one of the most violent events in the history of Chile.[16]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_C...&#39;%C3%A9tat

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## Paruk

And some were thinking that Nazi Germany with Hitler as a leader, was one of the worst things that happened to the world. Well, we know the Americans like to do everything bigger and better, so here they go. Prepare yourselves for some truly bad times ahead of us.

That's what you get if you allow an infantile psychotic nation as the US too much liberties. The world has created a true monster and now it turns against us.

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## Takeovers

You can think of the US what you want. But if you think China or Russia is a better alternative as a world leader than the US you are very deeply delusional.

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## buriramboy

> You can think of the US what you want. But if you think China or Russia is a better alternative as a world leader than the US you are very deeply delusional.


That's a pretty poor excuse to defend America behaviour.

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## Klondyke

*‘It's none of our business!’ Ron Paul denounces American ‘hypocrisy’ in backing Venezuelan coup*
Published time: 25 Jan, 2019 23:53

Supporting a coup in Venezuela in the name of promoting democracy is rather ironic, former Congressman Ron Paul told RT, pointing out the glaring hypocrisy of enforcing “American values” at gunpoint.

“Where do we get the moral authority to be the decider?” the Ron Paul Institute founder asked. “I think it’s rather ironic for our government to say they want to take care of Venezuela... by having a coup and threatening them with military violence because they’re not democratic enough!”

American intervention in Venezuela’s affairs is not only hypocritical, but “unwise, very dangerous, it will be costly, it’s against our rules, and if they pretend that we have to go in because we want to spread American values, those aren’t my values!” Paul exclaimed, pointing out that the US criticizes other countries for alleged ‘meddling’ but “when we do it, it’s right and proper and almost holy.”

Warning that Maduro will not roll over and relinquish power without a fight – and that the other Western countries lining up behind self-appointed President Juan Guaidó are probably only doing so to avoid economic retaliation from Washington – Paul lamented the Trump administration’s inability to learn from history.

“Have a look at US foreign policy of the last 10 years!” Paul implored, begging the US to at least learn from the lessons of the ‘war on terror’.




> There’s nothing like foreign occupation that unifies the people.


“I’m sure there’s some harm done by Maduro and others,” Paul said, adding that he’s a harsh critic of Venezuela’s socialism, which “usually leads to impoverishment” – but it’s not “our job” to carry out “unnecessary interventions.”

https://www.rt.com/news/449755-ron-p...ela-hypocrisy/

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## harrybarracuda

> And some were thinking that Nazi Germany with Hitler as a leader, was one of the worst things that happened to the world. Well, we know the Americans like to do everything bigger and better, so here they go. Prepare yourselves for some truly bad times ahead of us.


My, aren't we the little drama queen?

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## harrybarracuda

I didn't realise Noam Chomsky was a fan of Chavez. I thought he was supposed to be an intellectual.




> Conspicuous by its relative absence in much of the mainstream news coverage of Venezuela’s political crisis is the word “socialism.” Yes, every sensible observer agrees that Latin America’s once-richest country, sitting atop the world’s largest proven oil reserves, is an economic basket case, a humanitarian disaster, and a dictatorship whose demise cannot come soon enough.
> 
> But … socialist? Perish the thought.
> 
> Or so goes a line of argument that insists socialism’s good name shouldn’t be tarred by the results of experience. On Venezuela, what you’re likelier to read is that the crisis is the product of corruption, cronyism, populism, authoritarianism, resource-dependency, U.S. sanctions and trickery, even the residues of capitalism itself. Just don’t mention the S-word because, you know, it’s working really well in Denmark.
> 
> Curiously, that’s not how the Venezuelan regime’s admirers used to speak of “21st century socialism,” as it was dubbed by Hugo Chávez. The late Venezuelan president, said Britain’s Jeremy Corbyn, “showed us there is a different and a better way of doing things. It’s called socialism, it’s called social justice, and it’s something that Venezuela has made a big step toward.” Noam Chomsky was similarly enthusiastic when he praised Chávez in 2009. “What’s so exciting about at last visiting Venezuela,” the linguist said, is that “I can see how a better world is being created and can speak to the person who’s inspired it.”
> 
> Nor were many of the Chávez’s admirers overly worried about his regime’s darker sides. Chomsky walked back some of his praise as Venezuela became more overtly dictatorial, but others on the left weren’t as squeamish. In a lengthy obituary in The Nation, New York University professor Greg Grandin opined, “the biggest problem Venezuela faced during his rule was not that Chávez was authoritarian but that he wasn’t authoritarian enough.
> ...

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## bowie

> The world has created a true monster and now it turns against us.






Yawn

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## Klondyke

> In the meantime, the larger lesson of Venezuela’s catastrophe should be learned. Twenty years of socialism, cheered by Corbyn, Klein, Chomsky and Co., led to the ruin of a nation. They may not be much embarrassed, much less personally harmed, by what they helped do. It’s for the rest of us to take care that it never be done to us.


They have forgotten to remind us with another good example: Fidel's Cuba. Not only "twenty years". And that's despite the "help" they have got from their neighbours over the bay...

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## OhOh

I wonder if Maduro will call Nancy Pelosi to announce Venezuela's decision to recognise her as POTUS, now goldilocks "is a broken man"? 

*Backing down, Trump agrees to end shutdown without border wall money*https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shutdown/backing-down-trump-agrees-to-end-shutdown-without-border-wall-money-idUSKCN1PJ126


'B*roken man': Right wing rips Trump over no-wall shutdown deal*

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1PJ2LT

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## OhOh

> Twenty years of socialism, cheered by Corbyn, Klein, Chomsky and Co., led to the ruin of a nation.


Aided and abetted by western illegal financial sanctions, theft of Venezuela's gold by UK and in country terrorists.

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## harrybarracuda

> Aided and abetted by western illegal financial sanctions, theft of Venezuela's gold by UK and in country terrorists.


What is illegal is stealing all of the infrastructure paid for by foreign companies that helped build your "socialist nirvana" in the first place, moron.

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## SKkin

Caution...economic and financial gangsterism in progress.

Venezuela's Guaido Says Opposition Seeks Financing, Debt Relief
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-debt-relief




> "Under the rule of law we will have clear elements to obtain new  financing to boost the economy, stabilize the country and tend to the  oil industry," Guaido said after Tuesday’s congressional session. “With a  new government, the debt will not only be repaid, but we could  refinance with the trust of a government that can pay.’’

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## Takeovers

> Backing down, Trump agrees to end shutdown without border wall money


Unfortunately not true. He only suspends it until mid February so that salaries can be paid.

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## SKkin

The usual suspects being put in play..."to help the Venezuelan people fully restore democracy and prosperity to their country."

 :smiley laughing: 



https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/st...69937404735488


August 2017 - "Additional Sanctions"

Executive  Order  13808  of  August  24,  2017  
Imposing  Additional  Sanctions  With  Respect  to  the  Situation  in  Venezuela  

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-ce...ents/13808.pdf

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## foobar

> I didn't realise Noam Chomsky was a fan of Chavez. I thought he was supposed to be an intellectual.


Obviously the world's greatest living political intellectual and academic is a Russian stooge.

What other explanation could there be?

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## harrybarracuda

> Caution...economic and financial gangsterism in progress.
> 
> Venezuela's Guaido Says Opposition Seeks Financing, Debt Relief
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-debt-relief


The problem is you're too stupid to realise that this is the sensible way forward.

The very first thing that needs to be done is to invest billions repairing the oil and gas infrastructure that Maduro and the military have run into the ground. That will require borrowing because Maduro has mortgaged the fucking place to the chinkies and russians in a desperate attempt to stay in power.

Renegotiating the debt is also quite sensible, although no doubt the chinkies and russkies will try and turn the screw because they quite like having Venezuela by the balls.

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## pseudolus

Meanwhile in the State Department and all the crony western state and corporate media, something very simple is happening. 



Watch as the lamestream media morons like harry latch onto their new target and support the american regime change efforts. For DEMOCRACY.

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## Dragonfly

> You can think of the US what you want. But if you think China or Russia is a better alternative as a world leader than the US you are very deeply delusional.


I hate to say it but they will probably do a better job than the US paranoia government

Putin is awesome !!!

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## harrybarracuda

> For DEMOCRACY.


You honestly believe that Venezuela has democracy? If you do, you've clearly had your head up your arse while Maduro has been stripping powers from the people and giving them to his cronies.

You moron.

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## foobar

> I hate to say it but they will probably do a better job than the US paranoia government
> 
> Putin is awesome !!!


Considering China makes up nearly 20% of the human population and Russia is the largest country by land mass, they are both very peaceful countries in comparison to the US.

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## OhOh

> foreign companies that helped build


They had already  taken home their pound of flesh.





> Unfortunately not true


Look at the source - Reuters. Lying again, what's new.




> the oil and gas infrastructure


Being under sanctions by the suppliers government does lead to difficulties.

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## uncle junior

> look at the source - reuters. Lying again, what's new.


link or fo

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## harrybarracuda

> They had already  taken home their pound of flesh.


Clearly you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

Again.

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## The Shining Light

It's very clear to most what is occurring.

Opposing the obvious, we have only Americans (and one collaborator).

The not too bright, yankee doodle fvckwits -  brainwashed, over-privileged numptys such as Humbert, Uncle Junior, Bowie and Takeovers.

In addition to those fools, we have Harry the Callaborator. He is more guilty than the others though, reason being that he is an intelligent  and willing accomplice/s .

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## bowie

> It's very clear to most what is occurring.


Yawn...

Wassa matta NTD floppin'?

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## harrybarracuda

> It's very clear to most what is occurring.
> 
> Opposing the obvious, we have only Americans (and one collaborator).
> 
> The not too bright, yankee doodle fvckwits -  brainwashed, over-privileged numptys such as Humbert, Uncle Junior, Bowie and Takeovers.
> 
> In addition to those fools, we have Harry the Callaborator. He is more guilty than the others though, reason being that he is an intelligent  and willing accomplice/s .


What's up pseudopuss, run out of whackjob Youtube videos to post?

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## stroller

You're a pottymouthed piece of shit, Hairy.

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## harrybarracuda

> You're a pottymouthed piece of shit, Hairy.


Well off you fuck then, tosser.

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## SKkin

Mr. Democracy...Elliot Abrams

 :smiley laughing: 



*Official convicted over Iran-Contra scandal appointed to help 'restore democracy' in Venezuela*
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8747306.html





> Reuters described Mr Abrams was a neoconservative who has long  advocated an activist US role in the world. He last served in government  in the George W Bush White House, first as a Middle East expert on the  national security council and later as a global democracy strategy  adviser.
> 
> He was assistant secretary of state during the Reagan  administration and was convicted in 1991 on two misdemeanour counts of  withholding information from Congress during the Iran-Contra scandal. He  was later pardoned by President George HW Bush.


. . .




> For many Latin America watchers he will be associated with his denial  of a 1982 massacre at El Mozote in El Salvador of hundreds of civilians  by the military. Mr Abrams told a Senate committee that the reports of  hundreds of deaths at El Mozote were not credible.
> 
> In 1993, after a UN truth commission which  examined 22,000 atrocities that occurred during the twelve-year civil  war in El Salvador, attributed 85 per cent of the abuses to the  Reagan-assisted right-wing military and its death-squad allies, Mr  Abrams said: The administrations record on El Salvador is one of  fabulous achievement.

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## SKkin

"Drain the swamp" he said...

 :smiley laughing:

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## Klondyke

> You honestly believe that Venezuela has democracy?


Harry, in the same manner as a certain country (please no names here) knows (got clue) where there is no democracy, therefore somebody has to bring them one....

----------


## Klondyke

Just airing live from UNSC speech of Venezuelan delegate at the debate about "Venezuelan democracy" as summoned by one righteous state (please no names here).

And he reads the previous "liberations" in South America as listed here above (perhaps he is a TD member)...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Mr. Democracy...Elliot Abrams


Trump appointee. Are you really surprised?

----------


## SKkin

> Are you really surprised?


Who said I was surprised?


Let the demonization begin...or continue.

Cocaine, Payola: How Maduro Keeps Top Military Brass in Line
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e?srnd=premium




> Those interests, in the view of the U.S., are illicit and damning. Nikki  Haley, the outgoing U.S. ambassador to the UN, has called Venezuela a  criminal narco-state that is robbing the Venezuelan people blind.


pot meet kettle...

----------


## Klondyke

It has worked lately in Ukraine, why not now in their hemisfere (how we read the reasons of the friendly "help"). 

The govt shutdown has been interrupted, the coffers are oppened again (for any "help")...

----------


## russellsimpson

What's the real head shaker is why the Americans would take this to the U.N.

No way in hell they were going to a unanimous decision. Especially at the security council.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Who said I was surprised?
> 
> 
> Let the demonization begin...or continue.
> 
> Cocaine, Payola: How Maduro Keeps Top Military Brass in Line
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e?srnd=premium
> 
> 
> ...


So are you saying this isn't true?




> The top ranks _(of the military)_ control the ports, have contracts for hundreds of social housing projects and valuable mining and oil services concessions and hold the reins to Venezuela’s crown jewel, Petroleos de Venezuela SA.
> 
> 
> Even at this ugly stage in the country’s devastating decline, it would be surprising if most military leaders didn’t continue to back the regime, said historian Tomas Straka, a professor at Andres Bello Catholic University in Caracas. “Their economic interests and vision are completely fused with Maduro’s.”

----------


## harrybarracuda

Venezuela's military envoy to US defects to opposition and calls for more to follow


Venezuela’s top military envoy to the United States has defected from the government of Nicolás Maduro as the South American nation’s political crisis deepened.


Days after opposition leader Juan Guaidó proclaimed himself interim president amid social and economic chaos, Col Jose Luis Silva released a video on Saturday calling on other military officers to back the pretender.


Guaidó has been recognised by the US, Canada and other regional powers, while on Saturday the UK called for Maduro to hold a “clean” election to decide the fate of the country.


“Today I speak to the people of Venezuela, and especially to my brothers in the armed forces of the nation, to recognize president Juan Guaidó as the only legitimate president,” Col Silva said in a video recorded at the embassy in Washington, seated at a desk alongside the Venezuelan flag.


Silva told Reuters that one consular official in Houston and one in another US city also recognized Guaidó, but that he was the only diplomat in Washington he knew of who had taken the step. Reuters was not able to independently confirm other defectors.


“The top brass of the military and the executive branch are holding the armed forces hostage. There are many, many who are unhappy,” Silva said. “My message to the armed forces is, ‘Don’t mistreat your people.’ We were given arms to defend the sovereignty of our nation. They never, never trained us to say, ‘This is for you to attack your people, to defend the current government in power’.”


Guaidó welcomed Silva in a message on Twitter and encouraged others to follow his example.


But Venezuela’s defense ministry called Silva a coward, posting a picture of him emblazoned with the word “traitor” across it in red capital letters.


US national security council spokesman Garrett Marquis called the defection an example of the principle “that the role of the military is to protect constitutional order, not to sustain dictators and repress its own people. Encourage others to do the same.”


Guaidó confirmed on Saturday that he has met Maduro government officials for talks about the crisis and to convince them of the need for new elections.


In a television interview earlier in the week, Guaidó appeared to dodge a question about whether he had met with Diosdado Cabello, a senior lawmaker and one of the most prominent figures in Maduro’s Socialist party.


A video the government says is evidence of the encounter showed Cabello and another top Maduro officials, Freddy Bernal, followed into a hotel by several well known opposition lawmakers along with a person wearing a baseball cap and gray hoody that the government says is Guaidó.


In Caracas, Guaidó told a small crowd of supporters that he had met with officials, although he did not specify who or when. He said he was interested in talking to anybody, civilian or military, who would support ending what he calls Maduro’s “usurpation” and back a transition government and free elections.


“I’m ready, a message for Freddy and Diosdado, I said it yesterday and will repeat it today, everybody who wants to end the usurpation; government of transition and free elections, are welcome to discuss it.”


Guaidó’s goal as he tries to consolidate his parallel government, which has international support but no control of the state, is to win over defectors by promising an amnesty policy that would let soldiers, police and civilians take part in public life after a transition, without punishment.


Meanwhile, Nicolás Maduro’s government has backtracked on an order that gave US embassy personnel 72 hours to leave Venezuela, saying it had opened a 30-day window to negotiate with the Trump administration, defusing tensions between the countries just hours after their top diplomats traded heated rhetoric at a special UN security council meeting.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/27/venezuela-opposition-leader-says-he-has-met-maduro-government-officials

----------


## Klondyke

Diplomats who can change their coat within a day are very valuable people. NOw the state coffers are open again...

----------


## OhOh

A decept portrayal from somebody who knows what desperate, hungry, deflate and angry people look and act like.



    A crowd of opposition supporters listen to Juan Guaidó at  Bolívar Square in Chacao, eastern Caracas, on Friday. Photograph: Luis  Robayo/AFP/Getty Images 

_" look at this photo of supporters of CIA poster-boy, the West’s puppet unelected “President” Juan Guaido, taken at a Guaido rally in Caracas two days ago and published yesterday  in security services house journal The Guardian. Please take a really  close look at the photo. Blow it up as big as you can. Scan individual  people in the crowd, one by one.

These are not the poor and most certainly not the starving. As it  chances I have a great deal of life experience working amongst seriously  deprived, hungry and despairing people. I know the gaunt face of want  and the desperate glance of need. Look at these Guaido  supporters, one by one by one. This designer spectacled, well-coiffed,  elegantly dressed, sleekly jowled group does not know hunger. This group  does not know want. This is a proper right wing gathering, a gathering  of the nicely off section of society. This is a group of those who have  corruptly been siphoning Venezuela’s great wealth for decades and who  want to make sure the gravy train flows properly in their direction  again. It is, in short, a group of exactly the kind of people you would  expect to support a CIA coup."_

More here:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...es-of-caracas/

----------


## SKkin

Oh look who's popped up again, in a bit of media coverage. Medea Benjamin.



She protested about Libya and Syria too. You just didn't hear much about it. Imagine that...






> So are you saying this isn't true?


Is it? What's next babies and incubators? Chemical weapons attacks? Maybe Venezuela was Plan B...

 




> In late June 1999, numerous news services, including Associated Press, reported that Richard Grasso, Chairman of the New York Stock Exchange flew to Colombia to meet with a spokesperson for Raul Reyes of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Columbia (FARC), the supposed "narco terrorists" with whom we are now at war.
> 
> The purpose of the trip was "to bring a message of cooperation from U.S. financial services" and to discuss foreign investment and the future role of U.S. businesses in Colombia.
> 
> Some reading in between the lines said to me that Grasso's mission related to the continued circulation of cocaine capital through the US financial system. FARC, the Colombian rebels, were circulating their profits back into local development without the assistance of the American banking and investment system. Worse yet for the outlook for the US stock market's strength from $500 billion - $1 trillion in annual money laundering - FARC was calling for the decriminalization of cocaine.


~ Catherine Austin Fitts

Venezuela...drugs, gold and oil.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

Oh dear, is Craig scraping the bottom of the barrel or what?




> _This designer spectacled, well-coiffed, elegantly dressed, sleekly jowled group_


Oh yes, look at it, no-one seems to be wearing anything but D&G glasses, Burberry and Prada.

Honestly, what the fuck is this sozzled spastic on about?

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Is it? What's next babies and incubators? Chemical weapons attacks? Maybe Venezuela was Plan B...


Again: Are you denying that this is true?




> The top ranks (of the military) control the ports, have contracts for hundreds of social housing projects and valuable mining and oil services concessions and hold the reins to Venezuela’s crown jewel, Petroleos de Venezuela SA.

----------


## harrybarracuda

I'm going to post the whole thing as it's a real tragedy what Maduro has done to the nation's most critical asset.

Such is their desperation that when they get jobs abroad (and there are thousands in the sandpit), they often bring their parents as well as their children. Because they are often high quality staff with reasonable salary package demands, companies and governments are being flexible when it comes to housing arrangements.

Grab a coffee.





> CARACAS (Reuters) - Last July 6, Major General Manuel Quevedo joined his wife, a Catholic priest and a gathering of oil workers in prayer in a conference room at the headquarters of Petroleos de Venezuela SA, or PDVSA.
> 
> 
> The career military officer, who for the past year has been boss at the troubled state-owned oil company, was at no ordinary mass. The gathering, rather, was a ceremony at which he and other senior oil ministry officials asked God to boost oil output.
> 
> 
> "This place of peace and spirituality," read a release by the Oil Ministry that was later scrubbed from its web site, "was the site of prayer by workers for the recovery of production of the industry."
> 
> 
> ...


https://wsau.com/news/articles/2018/...ers-run-pdvsa/

----------


## Klondyke

^Obsession? Or another desease?

----------


## pseudolus

> You honestly believe that Venezuela has democracy? If you do, you've clearly had your head up your arse while Maduro has been stripping powers from the people and giving them to his cronies.
> 
> You moron.


Just as much democracy as can be found in the US, UK etc. Problem is knobjockey, you are too dim to realise it.

----------


## HuangLao

> Just as much democracy as can be found in the US, UK etc. Problem is knobjockey, you are too dim to realise it.



....a real free and independent democratic state is virtually impossible to find, as they don't exist - even in imaginary varying degrees.
In name only, less practiced. 


Witness the world.
What one might find today is literally corporatism or plutocracy.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Just as much democracy as can be found in the US, UK etc. Problem is knobjockey, you are too dim to realise it.


Imagine if you will the UK PM taking away all of parliaments powers and giving them to the House of Lords?

You probably can, because you are mentally ill.

----------


## The Shining Light



----------


## harrybarracuda

"America needs another revolution".

What is this bloke, Alex Jones Light?

 :rofl:

----------


## Klondyke

*‘Attack orchestrated from Washington’: Cuba slams US for ‘meddling’ accusation on Venezuela*
Published time: 27 Jan, 2019 

Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez has rejected US accusations that his country is “meddling” in Venezuela, and accused Washington of trying to “orchestrate” a coup to overthrow President Nicolas Maduro.

Rodriguez’ comments came after US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo accused Cuban “security and intelligence thugs” of propping up Maduro’s regime in his UN Security Council speech. He called on the international community to “pick a side,” choosing between President Maduro and opposition leader Juan Guaidó, who declared himself interim president last week.

“I categorically reject the slanderous accusations launched by the US Secretary of State against Cuba at the UN Security Council,” Rodriguez tweeted later on Saturday. “His attack on the constitutionality of Venezuela, orchestrated from Washington, is doomed to fail despite all lies.”

“Washington designed, financed and arranged the alleged usurpation of the Venezuelan presidency,” Rodriguez claimed in a later tweet.

Guaidó, until now the head of Venezuela’s opposition-led National Assembly, swore himself in as interim president last Wednesday. His symbolic declaration came after days of anti-government protests in Caracas, and after the country’s Supreme Court declared all acts of the National Assembly null and void.

Within the hour, US President Donald Trump officially recognized Guaidó as Venezuela’s legitimate president, prompting Maduro to sever diplomatic ties with the US. Pompeo’s State Department promised to give Guaidó “the resources he needs to lead the government of Venezuela,” including $20 million in humanitarian aid.

With most of Venezuela’s neighbors echoing American calls for regime change, Cuba is one of a handful of Latin American countries that stuck by Maduro, with Cuban President Miguel Díaz-Canel calling the US and Guaidó’s efforts “imperialist attempts to discredit and destabilize the Bolivarian revolution.” Bolivia and Uruguay remained loyal to the president, and Mexico’s newly-elected leftist government kept its diplomatic relations with Venezuela unchanged.

The US called a UNSC meeting on Saturday to discuss the “situation in Venezuela” which was opposed by Russia and three other countries.

“Venezuela does not represent a threat to peace and security,” Russia's UN ambassador, Vassily Nebenzia, told the Security Council. “If anything does represent a threat to peace, it is the shameless and aggressive action of the United States and their allies aimed at the ouster of the legitimately elected president of Venezuela.”

https://www.rt.com/news/449912-cuba-...ing-venezuela/

----------


## foobar

> ....a real free and independent democratic state is virtually impossible to find, as they don't exist - even in imaginary varying degrees.
> In name only, less practiced. 
> 
> 
> Witness the world.
> What one might find today is literally corporatism or plutocracy.


The most powerful nation on earth has spent the last 20 years trying to install democracy in Afghanistan.  Who knows how many have died over that time.  Now the Taliban( who refuse to talk with the puppet afghani government and will only deal directly with the US ) have done a deal with the US where the Taliban takes control of the country, but pinkie promises the US not to allow Afghanistan to become an international hub for terrorist training camps.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47015794

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *‘Attack orchestrated from Washington’: Cuba slams US for ‘meddling’ accusation on Venezuela*
> Published time: 27 Jan, 2019 
> 
> Cuban Foreign Minister Bruno Rodriguez has rejected US accusations that his country is “meddling” in Venezuela, and accused Washington of trying to “orchestrate” a coup to overthrow President Nicolas Maduro.
> 
> Rodriguez’ comments came after US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo accused Cuban “security and intelligence thugs” of propping up Maduro’s regime in his UN Security Council speech. He called on the international community to “pick a side,” choosing between President Maduro and opposition leader Juan Guaidó, who declared himself interim president last week.
> 
> “I categorically reject the slanderous accusations launched by the US Secretary of State against Cuba at the UN Security Council,” Rodriguez tweeted later on Saturday. “His attack on the constitutionality of Venezuela, orchestrated from Washington, is doomed to fail despite all lies.”
> 
> ...


Of course Cuba has been supplying spooks and thugs. Where the fuck do you think they were getting their oil from? Paying market rates for it? (Although in fairness it did start with supplying doctors and medicines, but they fucked that up by expecting them to work for nothing and most of them screamed to go home).



You dummy, fancy expecting RT to tell the truth when they have their hooks into Venezuela and don't want to let go.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oi...l-To-Cuba.html

----------


## Klondyke

^
I fixed it for you:
You dummy, fancy expecting CNN/WaPo/Fox (you name it) to tell the truth when they have their hooks into Venezuela and don't want to let go.

----------


## SKkin

WTF? When I last looked at this thread, I had there this pic of Medea Benjamin(Code Pink) protesting at the OAS...




Anyway...Dr. Jill Stein had a couple of digs:

https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/stat...rc=twsrc%5Etfw



https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/stat...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

 :smiley laughing: 





Speaking of Chomsky...he signed on to this open letter:

An Open Letter to the United States: Stop Interfering in Venezuela's Internal Politics
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...ernal-politics

an excerpt:




> Under the Trump administration, aggressive rhetoric against the  Venezuelan government has ratcheted up to a more extreme and threatening  level, with Trump administration officials talking of military action and condemning Venezuela, along with Cuba and Nicaragua, as part of a troika of tyranny. Problems resulting from Venezuelan government policy have been worsened  by US economic sanctions, illegal  under the Organization of American States and the United Nations ― as  well as US law and other international treaties and conventions. These  sanctions have cut off the means by which the Venezuelan government  could escape from its economic recession, while causing a dramatic falloff  in oil production and worsening the economic crisis, and causing many  people to die because they cant get access to life-saving medicines.  Meanwhile, the US and other governments continue to blame the Venezuelan  government ― solely ― for the economic damage, even that caused by the  US sanctions.

----------


## SKkin

> Witness the world.
> What one might find today is literally corporatism or plutocracy.


or neo-feudalism

----------


## SKkin

^^ What do the mods have against pics of Code Pink protests in current events and on topic?

 ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

As many are aware western democracy is to offer the citizens a vote for a government. If the result does not gel with the "leaders", another "vote" is called for. 

Until the "counted votes" are "adjusted" to match expectations. Venezuela, Brexit,  Scots Independence ...........

----------


## foobar

Trump paid £200million to Facebook to secure potus role = western democracy.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Trump paid £200million to Facebook to secure potus role = western democracy.


That's hare-brained even by TFH standards.

 :rofl:

----------


## foobar

The source was the BBC.  Confirmed on camera by the company who received the money and did the work.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The source was the BBC.  Confirmed on camera by the company who received the money and did the work.


Do you have a link?

----------


## Klondyke

*England blocks $1.2 billion in Venezuela gold

*After the US, UK and several other countries recognized Juan Guaido as president of Venezuela, the Bank of England blocked elected leader Nicolas Maduro from accessing $1.2 billion dollars in Venezuelan gold.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The source was the BBC.  Confirmed on camera by the company who received the money and did the work.


Hellooooooooo

Do you have a link?

----------


## HuangLao

> 



As it is their nature and history, regardless of said invented political identity - all extensions of the American establishment and supportive thereof. 
Amazingly enough, they tend to find a way to manipulate the already dumbed down and naive population by means of the usual calls and manners. 

Repeated in such propagandized manner, loud and often enough, it all becomes real and true.

----------


## harrybarracuda

The Trump administration dealt its toughest blow yet to the authoritarian Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro, issuing new sanctions on the nation’s state-owned oil company PDVSA that effectively block his regime from exporting crude to the U.S.

The move ratchets up pressure on Maduro to resign and cede power to National Assembly leader Juan Guaido by cutting off the regime from the market where it gets the bulk of its cash. The U.S. and other countries recognized Guaido last week as Venezuela’s rightful president, and he said Monday he would take control of Venezuelan accounts abroad and appoint new boards to PDVSA and its Houston-based subsidiary Citgo Petroleum.


President Donald Trump assailed Maduro in a letter to Congress explaining an executive order he issued sanctioning PDVSA and Venezuela’s central bank. The action would bolster Guaido, he said, while accusing Maduro’s regime of “human rights violations and abuses in response to anti-Maduro protests, arbitrary arrest and detention of anti‑Maduro protesters, curtailment of press freedom, harassment of political opponents, and continued attempts to undermine” Guaido’s government-in-waiting.

“The U.S. is holding accountable those responsible for Venezuela’s tragic decline,” Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said.


U.S. officials had long been hesitant to apply sanctions on Venezuelan oil because they did not want to exacerbate the humanitarian crisis in the country. But with Maduro and Guaido, a 35-year-old engineer-turned-lawmaker, locked in a struggle for support in the streets and the military, they decided it’s now worth the risk. Guaido so far hasn’t been able to sway the armed forces to his side but he’s tapped deep public discontent with an economy beset by hyperinflation and vast shortages of food and medicine.

In an interview with CNN en Espanol, Guaido said that he had spoken to Trump, but did not provide any details.

National Security Adviser John Bolton told reporters at the White House that Trump’s action would block $7 billion in Venezuelan assets and reduce the country’s exports by $11 billion over the next year, though Maduro is sure to attempt to sell PDVSA’s crude elsewhere. Bolton urged Venezuela’s military to accept a peaceful transfer of power to Guaido.

Mnuchin said that Citgo would be able to continue to operate but won’t be allowed to remit money to the Maduro regime. Its proceeds must instead be held in blocked U.S. accounts. The Treasury secretary added that in the “short term” he expects “modest” impact on U.S. refineries. He noted the sanctions wouldn’t affect oil already purchased that is being shipped, and said he didn’t expect U.S. gas prices to rise.

Maduro decried the asset freeze as a “robbery” on state television Monday evening and instructed PDVSA’s President Manuel Quevedo to take legal actions in U.S. and international courts against the sanctions.

West Texas Intermediate crude futures in New York advanced 0.8 percent to $52.40 a barrel as of 6:01 a.m. in London on Tuesday, after closing down 3.2 percent on Monday.

As of Monday, all PDVSA assets and property subject to U.S. jurisdiction are blocked, according to a Treasury statement, and U.S. citizens and companies are generally prohibited from doing business with the Venezuelan firm. The move is consistent with the Trump administration’s efforts to starve Maduro of oil money, while still blunting the potential impact on U.S. refiners and U.S. motorists, said Jim Lucier, managing director of Washington, D.C.-based Capital Alpha Partners.

The administration is using “a scalpel, rather than a meat ax,” he said in an email.

U.S. Senator Marco Rubio praised the sanctions in a statement released before they were 
announced.

“The Maduro crime family has used PDVSA to buy and keep the support of many military leaders,” Rubio said. “The oil belongs to the Venezuelan people, and therefore the money PDVSA earns from its export will now be returned to the people through their legitimate constitutional government.”

The Florida Republican represents a large Venezuelan expatriate community and is a vocal opponent of the Maduro regime, which the U.S. declared illegitimate last week.

But Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey, the senior Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee, said the Trump administration should brief Congress on its moves against Maduro. He praised U.S. efforts to “support the restoration of democracy in Venezuela” but said “there are more questions than answers about the administration’s strategy.”

The sanctions would be the latest move in Trump’s campaign oust the leftist regime of Maduro, who succeeded the late President Hugo Chavez in 2013.

PDVSA has been moving away from dollar-denominated transactions in the past couple of years, since the Trump administration announced financial sanctions in August 2017. The company sells oil to clients in the U.S., Europe and Asia and requires payment in euros, and buys gasoline and diesel for payment in euros as well.

PDVSA also buys fuels via Citgo, owner of three refineries in the U.S. Most of those are barter deals, which means PDVSA gets the fuels and pays the suppliers — including trading house Vitol SA and Reliance Industries Ltd from India — in Venezuelan crude.

U.S. officials successfully lobbied the the Bank of England to deny Maduro access to $1.2 billion worth of gold the government holds in London, stymieing the regime’s efforts to pull in cash from abroad. The U.K., along with Canada and most Latin American countries, followed the U.S. in recognizing Guaido as the country’s legitimate leader.

The Treasury Department also issued licenses on Monday authorizing Chevron Corp., Halliburton Co., Schlumberger Limited, General Electric Co.’s Baker Hughes unit and Weatherford International PLC to continue operations in Venezuela through July 27.

https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandga...-central-bank/

----------


## harrybarracuda

> As it is their nature and history, regardless of said invented political identity - all extensions of the American establishment and supportive thereof. 
> Amazingly enough, they tend to find a way to manipulate the already dumbed down and naive population by means of the usual calls and manners. 
> 
> Repeated in such propagandized manner, loud and often enough, it all becomes real and true.


This hurting a lot of democrats. They are sobbing into their vegetable smoothies about yet another abject failure of phony, populist socialism.

----------


## harrybarracuda

They will still be able to ship for the US for three months, although any revenues will be held in an account until sanctions are lifted.

So will Maduro block shipments now so the opposition don't get any money?

----------


## OhOh

> the Bank of England blocked elected leader Nicolas Maduro from accessing $1.2 billion dollars in Venezuelan go


If you can't hold it, you don't own it.

----------


## OhOh

> although any revenues will be held in an account until sanctions are lifted.


Similar to Libya. Unfortunately the cupboard was bare when the sanctions were lifted.

----------


## HuangLao

Empire extensions continue.
Same as it's been for ages.
Receiving the usual support from the usual backward circles - and truly haven't a clue.

Romanticizing and championing the cause.

----------


## SKkin

> Trump paid £200million to Facebook to secure potus role = western democracy.





> The source was the BBC. Confirmed on camera by the company who received the money and did the work.





> Do you have a link?





> Hellooooooooo
> Do you have a link?



This is the closest thing I can find. I heard her say(in the video) $85 million US.


*The digital guru who helped Donald Trump to the presidency*
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/magazine...the-presidency




> Many of the "Tech Gods" were dismayed when Donald Trump - who holds a  very different worldview - won the American presidency. But did they  actually help him to win? 
> 
> A key insider from the Trump campaign's  digital operation - Theresa Hong - unravels for the first time the role  played by social media and Facebook's in getting Trump into the White  House. 
> 
> Jamie Bartlett learns how Facebook's vast power to  persuade was first built for advertisers, combining data about our  internet use and psychological insights into how we think.

----------


## SKkin

> The Maduro crime family has used PDVSA to buy and keep the support of many military leaders, Rubio said. The oil belongs to the Venezuelan people, and therefore the money PDVSA earns from its export will now be returned to the people through their legitimate constitutional government.


Suuuure it will.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## harrybarracuda

> This is the closest thing I can find. I heard her say(in the video) $85 million US.


At what point in the video?





> *The digital guru who helped Donald Trump to the presidency*
> https://www.bbc.com/news/av/magazine...the-presidency


And does she work for Facebook?

Let's see how much further we have drifted from the truth with:




> _Trump paid £200million to Facebook to secure potus role = western democracy._

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Similar to Libya. Unfortunately the cupboard was bare when the sanctions were lifted.


Again, some kind of evidence that you aren't just making shit up again would be nice.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Suuuure it will.


Again, not really any evidence that this goes on.

e.g. the Iranians got their $400m back with interest to make it $1.7Bn.

And they also got their $100Bn+ back.

So do you have any kind of evidence that the US openly nicked money off other countries?

----------


## SKkin

> At what point in the video?


Maybe she didn't say it...and this is where I got that idea:








> And does she work for Facebook?


No, she works/worked for the Trump Campaign.

----------


## SKkin

> e.g. the Iranians got their $400m back with interest to make it $1.7Bn.
> 
> And they also got their $100Bn+ back.



The Iranian _people_ got it back?

----------


## reddog

^
Obama gave it in a deal that Iran would not keep developing nuclear weapons.bit of a stuff by him.

----------


## bowie

Fact Checker Analysis 
Was Obama’s $1.7 billion cash deal with Iran prohibited by U.S. law?




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/01/was-obamas-1-7-billion-cash-deal-with-iran-prohibited-by-u-s-law/?utm_term=.2af34298dbf4

The situation certainly looks unusual on its face. On Jan. 16, 2016, the same day four American detainees, including The Washington Post’s Jason Rezaian, were released, a jumbo jet carrying $400 million in euros, Swiss francs and other currencies landed in Tehran. That money purportedly was partial payment of an outstanding claim by Iran for U.S. military equipment that was never delivered. Soon after, $1.3 billion in cash followed.
The cash transaction was controversial even within the administration. The Wall Street Journal reported that the head of the Justice Department’s national-security division objected that it would look like a ransom payment. State Department officials insisted the negotiations over the claims and detainees were not connected but came together at the same time, with the cash payment used as “leverage” to ensure the release of detainees.
Now to the substance of our inquiry: Was it against the law to transfer the money to Iran until accounts were settled regarding victims of terrorism?


There is always more to any story released to the public - you decide

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The Iranian _people_ got it back?


I never said that. Mad Mullahs then.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Maybe she didn't say it...and this is where I got that idea:


Well Facebook says otherwise.  

Unless the BBC are referring to PACs of course, in which case I reckon Clinton spent more.




> Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton spent big on Facebook ads last year ahead of November’s presidential election.
> 
> 
> The two candidates and their campaigns spent a combined $81 million on ads, according to Facebook General Counsel Colin Stretch, who unveiled the number during a congressional hearing Wednesday focused on Russia’s attempt to use social platforms to interfere in the election.

----------


## Klondyke

*NOTING TO SEE HERE  * *Fears US could invade Venezuela as 5,000 troops to Colombia note spotted on John Boltons pad and he warns all options on table
*
Trump's national security adviser John Bolton said the president wants 'all options on the table' as he carried a note appearing to show the US is planning to deploy troops

THE threat of a US invasion of Venezuela to oust socialist President Nicolas Maduro has been raised after Donald Trump's security adviser flashed a note about sending "5,000 troops to Colombia".

John Bolton said President Trump is leaving open the possibility of military intervention to protect the country's opposition leader Juan Guaido.

Bolton told reporters at the White House on Monday: "The president has made it clear that all options are on the table."

He also stood with a notepad which appeared to read: "Afghanistan -> Welcome the Talks. 5,000 troops to Colombia".

----------


## The Shining Light



----------


## The Shining Light

Listen to what Trump says here about Libya.

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## harrybarracuda

I don't actually think he was leaving anyway, but good old Maduro, turning the lap dogs into attack dogs again.




> Venezuela’s Supreme Court has moved to ban opposition leader Juan Guaido from leaving the country, and has also frozen his bank accounts.
> 
> 
> The move is the latest challenge by President Nicolas Maduro, who is refusing to step down from his position despite increasing pressure both domestically and internationally.
> 
> Maduro began a second six-year term as president on 10 January, following elections last year that many observers say were illegitimate.
> 
> 
> Venezuela’s chief prosecutor Tarek William Saab announced that his office had begun an investigation into Guaido for his anti-government activities.
> ...

----------


## OhOh

It appears the the UVC (Unexceptional Vassal Coalition) are off on a another lose/lose war. Good for the MIC share and gold prices. Win/Win. Except for the local small brown people. Some ameristani politician will say "it was worth it"some day.

I do hope somebody has told goldilocks there's lots of jungle in Venezuela. ameristani army/marines don't do jungles so well. The air-force can of course drops 1,000,000s of bombs, mines, chemical weapons and now allegedly, mini-nukes. 

Allegedly Venezuela have Russian SU fighters,S300 and anti-ship defence missiles/radar systems.

----------


## OhOh

Now Venezuela is the OPEC President what will change?

*Venezuela Assumes OPEC Presidency, Unveils Foreign Oil Investment Deals*


Merida, January 9, 2019 (venezuelanalysis.com)  – 

Venezuela has assumed the presidency of the world’s oil-exporting  alliance, OPEC, starting this month and lasting for one year.

  The position will be occupied by Venezuela’s Oil Minister and  President of the State-run oil corporation PDVSA, Manuel Quevedo. OPEC  presidents are elected by their conference and are rotational.
 The announcement came amidst a visit to Caracas by OPEC Secretary General Mohammed Barkindo to participate in the upcoming swearing in of President Maduro to his new term in office.

continues at :

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/14213


Another article on the Venezuela oil industry.

https://viableopposition.blogspot.co...venezuela.html

----------


## Klondyke

*US coup in Venezuela motivated by oil and corporate interests - Neocon John Bolton spills the beans

*In an interview on Fox Business, Trump's neoconservative National Security Adviser John Bolton hinted the US-led coup in Venezuela is motivated by oil and corporate interests.




A full transcript of Boltons exchange with Fox Business host Trish Regan on January 24 follows below:

JOHN BOLTON: Were looking at the oil assets. Thats the single most important income stream to the government of Venezuela. Were looking at what to do to that.

We want everybody to know, were looking at all this seriously. We dont want any American businesses or investors caught by surprise. They can see what President Trump did yesterday. Were following through on it.

TRISH REGAN: So if you think of a company like Citgo, which is owned by PDVSA, which is the state-run oil company there in Venezuela, we have a lot of those Citgo assets right here in the US. Is that something, for example sir, that you are looking at?

JOHN BOLTON: Yeah look, were in conversation with major American companies now that are either in Venezuela, or in the case of Citgo here in the United States. I think were trying to get to the same end result here.

Venezuela is one of the three countries I called the Troika of Tyranny.

It will make a big difference to the United States economically if we could have American oil companies really invest in and produce the oil capabilities in Venezuela.

It would be good for Venezuela; it would be good for the people of the United States. We both have a lot at stake here making this come out the right way.

----------


## HuangLao

What should be truly disturbing is the great number of people that are buying into the show. 

Numb.

----------


## The Shining Light

Listen to Elliot Abrams (the convicted fraudster) make a beautiful Freudian slip, when he says,

"It's not about imposing democracy, it's about imposing tyranny"

Obviously meant to say "Opposing Tyranny", but let the truth of the matter be seen.

Secondly, notice how all the real and decent countries in the world decry the US administration for being the utter hypocritical war-mongering cvnts that they actually are.

And just to be clear, there are quality folk who know what's right in the US, brother SKKIN being a prime example, but sadly most Americans are dependent on their (false) pensions, otherwise they would be potless, thus they tow the line.

Big Up SKKIN

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Now Venezuela is the OPEC President what will change?
> 
> *Venezuela Assumes OPEC Presidency, Unveils Foreign Oil Investment Deals*
> 
> 
> Merida, January 9, 2019 (venezuelanalysis.com)  – 
> 
> Venezuela has assumed the presidency of the world’s oil-exporting  alliance, OPEC, starting this month and lasting for one year.
> 
> ...






> I do look around the many "sources"and choose t accept the facts from proven, reliable sources.


You really are a fucking muppet.

 :rofl: 




> _Greg Wilpert founded the website in 2003 with Martin Sanchez, one of the founders of Aporrea.org, a pro-Chavez website_, who set up the "technical side" of the site._The set up of Venezuelanalysis.com was also aided by the Venezuelan government._
> 
> In 2008 after _Wilpert's wife was named Consul General of Venezuela in New York by the Chávez government_, the two moved to New York City.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> In 2007, Wilpert stated_ the site had received "some funding" from the Venezuelan government's Ministry of Culture_, in addition to accepting "grassroots donations".
> 
> <snip>
> ...


No bias there then, just "facts"!




> As part of efforts to break dollar hegemony of the oil market, Venezuela now prices its oil in Chinese Yuan.


Translation: "The Chinkies told me too because they have me by the bollocks".

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## The Shining Light

^The relentless corporate shill continues.

Two two's hairy, I'd smash your fvcking sell out head all over the concrete if I could find you, you childless, sick, warped collaborator.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^The relentless corporate shill continues.
> 
> Two two's hairy, I'd smash your fvcking sell out head all over the concrete if I could find you, you childless, sick, warped collaborator.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Looks like _Chavismo_ is getting scared....




> CARACAS: Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro said he was willing to negotiate with the opposition and hold early congressional elections, in a concession as opponents plan another big demonstration.
> 
> 
> “I am ready to sit down at the negotiating table with the opposition so that we could talk for the good of Venezuela,” Maduro told Russia’s RIA Novosti in an interview in Caracas, the agency reported Wednesday.
> 
> “It would be very good to conduct parliamentary elections at an earlier stage. It would be a good form of political discussion,” Maduro said, according to the Russian state news agency.
> 
> 
> But at the same time he dismissed the possibility of holding a new presidential poll any time soon.
> ...

----------


## OhOh

> Looks like Chavismo is getting scared....


Talk, Talk or War, War. Yes to talking for me. It doesn't make Hollywood happy though.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Talk, Talk or War, War. Yes to talking for me. It doesn't make Hollywood happy though.


Yes, it's infinitely preferable that he fucks off peacefully; they can always go after him later for his actions.

----------


## SKkin

> Big Up SKKIN


Thanks...but it's an exercise in futility. The indoctrination is deep.

----------


## Klondyke

Never ever be willing to negotiate, to talk, that's a cowardice. The only talk is bombarding.

We are just concerned about the well-being those people, "Opposing Tyranny" ...

----------


## OhOh

An amusing and pointed piece:

*Why must Venezuela be destroyed?* 


https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-must-venezuela-be-destroyed.html



One snip:

_"This naked attempt at regime change would set a very dangerous precedent  for the US itself. The doctrine of legal precedent is by no means  universal. It comes to us from the dim dark ages of tribal English  common law and is only followed in former British colonies. To the rest  of the world it is a barbaric form of injustice because it grants  arbitrary power to judges and lawyers. The courts must not be allowed to  write or alter laws, only to follow them. If your case can be decided  on the basis of some other case that has nothing to do with you—well  then, why not let somebody else pay your legal fees and your fines and  serve out your sentence for you? But there is an overarching principle  of international law, which is that sovereign nations have a right to  keep to their own laws and legal traditions. Therefore, the US will be  bound by the precedents which it establishes. Let’s see how that would  work.

The precedent established by the US government’s recognition of Juan  Guaidó allows Nicolas Maduro to declare Donald Trump’s presidency as  illegitimate for virtually all of the same reasons. Trump failed to win  the popular vote but only gained the presidency because of a corrupt,  gerrymandered electoral system. Also, certain opposition candidates were  unfairly treated within the electoral process. Trump is also a disgrace  and a failure: 43 million people are on food stamps; close to 100  million are among the long-term unemployed (circularly referred to as  “not in labor force”); homelessness is rampant and there are entire tent  cities springing up in various US cities; numerous US companies are on  the verge of bankruptcy; and Trump can’t even seem to be able to keep  the federal government open! He is a disaster for his country! Maduro  therefore recognizes Bernie Sanders as the legitimate president of the  United States.

Vladimir Putin could then build on these two precedents by also  recognizing Bernie Sanders as the rightful US president. In a public  speech, he could say the following: “I freely admit that we installed  Donald Trump as US president as was our right based on the numerous  precedents established by the US itself. Unfortunately, Trump didn’t  work out as planned. Mueller can retire, because this flash drive  contains everything that’s necessary to nullify Trump’s inauguration.  Donny, sorry it didn’t work out! Your Russian passport is ready for  pick-up at our embassy, as are your keys to a one-bedroom in Rostov,  right next door to the Ukraine’s former president Viktor Yanukovich who  was violently regime-changed by your predecessor Obama.”


_

----------


## harrybarracuda

> An amusing and pointed piece:
> 
> *Why must Venezuela be destroyed?*


Millions have fled the country, people are starving, hospitals have run out of doctors and medicine, the national oil infrastructure is in tatters, etc. etc.

Do you live in a fucking cave or something?


 :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

^So, why not to get a new president, the new guy, who nobody knows (just few people in a "friendly" country, please no names)... 

Afterwards, all the millions of starving people will come back, the hospitals will be overflown by doctors and medicine.

And at the end of the day, the oil will flow at last...

----------


## harrybarracuda

Yes, let's try and keep the world in the dark eh, _Chavismo_?




> Venezuelan authorities have detained five foreign journalists covering the standoff with opposition forces seeking the ouster of President Nicolas Maduro.
> 
> 
> Two others, from Chile, were deported as the crisis spilled over to hit journalists covering the oil-rich but economically crippled nation's latest taste of crisis.
> 
> Two of the detained are from France, two from Colombia and one from Spain.
> 
> The latter three worked for the Spanish national news agency Efe and had all come from Colombia to cover the growing turmoil.
> 
> ...

----------


## Humbert

> Afterwards, all the millions of starving people will come back, the hospitals will be overflown by doctors and medicine.
> 
> And at the end of the day, the oil will flow at last...


Comrade, maybe foreign investment will come back if the scoundrels who nationalized the oil industry, lined their own pockets and put opposition leaders in jail are booted out of power.

----------


## harrybarracuda

*Venezuela's opposition had clandestine meetings with military: Guaido*

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Venezuela’s opposition has had clandestine meetings with members of the country’s military and security forces, Venezuela’s self-proclaimed interim president, Juan Guaido, said in an opinion piece published on Wednesday.

“The transition will require support from key military contingents. We have had clandestine meetings with members of the armed forces and the security forces,” Guaido said in an opinion piece published by the New York Times. “The military’s withdrawal of support from Mr. (President Nicolas) Maduro is crucial to enabling a change in government.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...ws%29&&rpc=401

----------


## Klondyke

> Comrade, maybe foreign investment will come back if the scoundrels who nationalized the oil industry, lined their own pockets and put opposition leaders in jail are booted out of power.


I speak about the starving people and you speak about the foreign investment. That surely will help to the millions of the starving people as it had helped in the Latin America for the last 100 years. 
That's why also the closest neigbour and brother in trade NAFTA Mexico is so excited about the "foreign help to take down the dictator".

BTW, I am not your comrade... (if you know what comrade means)

----------


## SKkin

> get a new president, the new guy, who nobody knows


But he was known...in all the right places.  :Wink: 

*The Making of Juan Guaidó: How the US Regime Change Laboratory Created Venezuelas Coup Leader*





> Before the fateful day of January 22, fewer than one in five  Venezuelans had heard of Juan Guaidó. Only a few months ago, the  35-year-old was an obscure character in a politically marginal far-right  group closely associated with gruesome acts of street violence. Even in  his own party, Guaidó had been a mid-level figure in the  opposition-dominated National Assembly, which is now held under contempt  according to Venezuelas constitution.
> 
> But after a single phone call from  from US Vice President Mike Pence, Guaidó proclaimed himself president  of Venezuela. Anointed as the leader of his country by Washington, a  previously unknown political bottom-dweller was vaulted onto the  international stage as the US-selected leader of the nation with the  worlds largest oil reserves.
> 
> Echoing the Washington consensus, the New York Times editorial board hailed  Guaidó as a credible rival to Maduro with a refreshing style and  vision of taking the country forward. The Bloomberg News editorial  board applauded him for seeking restoration of democracy and the Wall Street Journal declared him a  new democratic leader. Meanwhile, Canada, numerous European nations,  Israel, and the bloc of right-wing Latin American governments known as  the Lima Group recognized Guaidó as the legitimate leader of Venezuela.
> 
> While Guaidó seemed to have  materialized out of nowhere, he was, in fact, the product of more than a  decade of assiduous grooming by the US governments elite regime change  factories. Alongside a cadre of right-wing student activists, Guaidó  was cultivated to undermine Venezuelas socialist-oriented government,  destabilize the country, and one day seize power. Though he has been a  minor figure in Venezuelan politics, he had spent years quietly  demonstrated his worthiness in Washingtons halls of power.
> 
> Juan Guaidó is a character that has  been created for this circumstance, Marco Teruggi, an Argentinian  sociologist and leading chronicler of Venezuelan politics, told The Grayzone.  Its the logic of a laboratory  Guaidó is like a mixture of several  elements that create a character who, in all honesty, oscillates between  laughable and worrying.



Juan better not forget this:




> While he waits on direct assistance,  Guaidó remains what he has always been  a pet project of cynical  outside forces. It doesnt matter if he crashes and burns after all  these misadventures, Sequera said of the coup figurehead. To the  Americans, he is expendable.


full article at link...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> But he was known...in all the right places. 
> 
> *The Making of Juan Guaidó: How the US Regime Change Laboratory Created Venezuela’s Coup Leader*


It's admirable that you don't even attempt to hide that this horseshit was written by Putin pals Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen.

Should get them a tidy bonus in their RT paypackets.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Klondyke

> It's admirable that you don't even attempt to hide that this horseshit was written by Putin pals Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen.



We do not believe this horseshit, we believe another horseshit...

----------


## SKkin

> by Putin pals Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen.


Who isn't a Putin pal these days?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Who isn't a Putin pal these days?


Dan Cohen is literally an RT employee you mug. And his pal Blumenthal is an RT "contributor".

Oh sorry, did you not know? So you were just going with the "which is the biggest anti-US hatchet job" article?

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

A quite realistic piece from the NYT explaining why Guiado's opposition may have to make some unpalatable concessions to get military snouts out of Maduro's trough.




> *Venezuela’s Best Path to Democracy? Pay Off the Military*
> 
> 
> It was surely no accident that on Jan. 23, the Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaidó declared himself the country’s legitimate president. That challenge to President Nicolás Maduro occurred on the anniversary of a military coup in 1958 that ended a decade of dictatorship and ushered in an era of Venezuelan democracy and economic progress.
> 
> 
> Venezuela’s military has long been a kingmaker at defining democratic moments. In addition to the 1958 coup, it helped to install a lion of Venezuelan democracy, Rómulo Betancourt, in the presidency in 1945 and was central to returning Hugo Chávez to office after he was displaced in a coup in 2002. That helps explain why Mr. Guaidó has appealed to the military by, for instance, persuading the National Assembly to pass an amnesty law for those who act “in favor of the restitution of democracy in Venezuela.”
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## SKkin

^^I know Max was in Russia working for some years.

As for Dan Cohen(RT Correspondent)...he can't be all bad.  :Smile: 

Israeli Consulate in Boston to RT Journalist: You’re a Disgrace to Americans and Jews Everywhere
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pre...jews-1.6675728


What about The Independent, does Putin control that too?

*
Venezuela crisis: Former UN rapporteur says US sanctions are killing citizens*
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8748201.html




> The first UN rapporteur to visit Venezuela for 21 years has told _The Independent_ the US sanctions on the country are illegal and could amount to “crimes against humanity” under international law.
> 
> Former special rapporteur Alfred de Zayas, who finished his term  at the UN in March, has criticized the US for engaging in “economic  warfare” against Venezuela which he said is hurting the economy and killing Venezuelans.

----------


## SKkin

> A quite realistic piece from the NYT


I also remember the "realistic" pieces from the NYT regarding Iraq almost two decades ago...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^^I know Max was in Russia working for some years.
> 
> As for Dan Cohen(RT Correspondent)...he can't be all bad. 
> 
> Israeli Consulate in Boston to RT Journalist: You’re a Disgrace to Americans and Jews Everywhere
> https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pre...jews-1.6675728
> 
> 
> What about The Independent, does Putin control that too?
> ...


This Alfred de Zayas?




> Alfred de Zayas, installed in 2012 to the Cuban-created U.N. post of “Expert on promotion of a democratic and equitable international order” was warmly welcomed and embraced in Caracas on Monday by Venezuelan foreign minister Jorge Arreaza.
> 
> 
> Zayas has often used his UN post to spread overt propaganda praising Venezuela’s Maduro regime. 
> 
> He is a long-time defender of Fidel Castro and a hero to Holocaust deniers for his writings accusing the World War II allies of committing “genocide” against Germany.
> 
> https://www.unwatch.org/u-n-experts-...-rights-group/


He sounds a hoot.


Added: Correction - he sounds like a fucking mental case.

He actually wrote this....




> _These and other important advances have also been possible thanks to the so-called Bolivarian Missions, innovative social programs that were launched under the government of Commander Hugo Chavez and continue under that of President Nicolás Maduro. Such public policies should be taken as an example by the other countries of the world._


I'm thinking maybe such policies should probably not be taken as an example, unless it's an example of a right royal fuck up.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> Do you live in a fucking cave or something?


So the solution being suggested from external sources, who are only interested in the raping of the countries assets, is more chaos and war, is in your opinion better?

----------


## Klondyke

> Dan Cohen is literally an RT employee you mug. And his pal Blumenthal is an RT "contributor".


Is somebody naive enough to expect it to be told by "recognized MSM"?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So the solution being suggested from external sources, who are only interested in the raping of the countries assets, is more chaos and war, is in your opinion better?


And "whoosh".... that's the sound of you missing the fucking point as ever.

Venezuela is already all but destroyed, and has no chance of recovering while _Chavismo_ is in power. Putin wants _Chavismo_ in power like he wants baldy orange cunto in power, because he can manipulate him. Putin does not do favours for other countries, he does favours for himself.

It doesn't need a war to give the Venezuelan people a chance. The NYT article I posted sums it up articulately. If the Military can be persuaded to get their snouts out of the Maduro trough, and rewarded enough to do what they are supposed to do, Venezuela can return to its pre-Maduro functioning democracy, rebuild (not just its oil) industry and get peoples' living standard back to something less '60s Biafra.

You have no fucking idea what you are on about as usual: "blah blah rape the countries assets", you fucking moron.

The US only stopped buying Venezuelan oil last week. And that in an attempt to cut off Maduro's fucking thievery and get the arsehole out, so Venezuelans have a fighting chance of eating.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Looks like the Chinkies have realised there is no point handing more cash to Maduro.




> SINGAPORE, Jan 31 (Reuters) - PetroChina Co plans to drop Petroleos de Venezuela SA (PDVSA) as a partner in a planned $10 billion oil refinery and petrochemical project in southern China, said three sources familiar with the matter this week.
> 
> 
> The company's decision adds to state-owned PDVSA's woes after the United States imposed sanctions on the company on Jan. 28 to undermine the rule of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro.
> 
> However, dropping the company was not a reaction to the U.S. sanctions but follows the deteriorating financial status of PDVSA over the past few years, said two of the sources, both executives with China National Petroleum Corp, the parent of PetroChina.
> 
> "There will be no role of PDVSA as an equity partner. At least we don't see that possibility in the near future given the situation the country has been through in recent years," said one of the executives, asking to remain unidentified because he is not authorized to speak to the media.
> 
> ...


tml

----------


## Hugh Cow

I did write an overly long rant on why the problems are mostly caused by the last 2 Presidents but I am preacing to the converted. The others will still be pratling on about how good two oppressive regimes are and why they will save the world.

----------


## harrybarracuda

A bit of background which may explain China booting Venezuela off its petrochem project (above). Note that the $42.5bn figure up to 2012 is now around $60bn.




> Chinas Venezuela Headache
> With billions in loans at stake, China is finding itself embroiled in the South American countrys political crisis.
> 
> 
> By Shannon Tiezzi
> February 01, 2019 
> 
> Venezuelas mounting political crisis came to a head last week, when National Assembly head Juan Guaido officially declared himself the interim president, calling the 2018 elections that returned President Nicolas Maduro to power illegitimate. Despite mass protests being held across Venezuela, Maduro has refused to step down.
> 
> ...

----------


## Klondyke

> The United States quickly recognized Guiado as president, as did most of Venezuela’s fellow South American countries (with Bolivia being a notable exception).


"Bolivia being a notable exception"? Humbly concealed few more Latin America countries: Mexico, Uruguay, Cuba, Nicaragua, and perhaps few more...

At the end of the day, it will be same as with the Iran's sanctions: The vassal countries issue obediently the xeroxed declaration, but will find the way how to serve themselves:a "channel" for bypassing the sanctions...

----------


## SKkin

> The others will still be pratling on about how good two oppressive regimes are


That's not my angle. I just think it should be none of US business. Like this:




> “China always upholds the principle of noninterference in other counties’ internal affairs and opposes foreign interference in Venezuela’s affairs,” Hua added.


All of our interventions seem to lead to tears...tears from the countries where we intervene and from US taxpayers. Not to mention US military families who lose loved ones when the interventions turn into wars.


Did interference from us, in the past, in South America somehow lead to those two oppressive regimes in the first place? I wouldn't be surprised. Look what our interference in Iran in the 1950s led to.

----------


## uncle junior

20 tons of Venezuelan gold packed up on a plane headed to Russia ......or Dubai....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/venez...022753684.html

----------


## foobar

> It's admirable that you don't even attempt to hide that this horseshit was written by Putin pals Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen.
> 
> Should get them a tidy bonus in their RT paypackets.


Remember the golden rule folks, anyone who challenges Harry's world view must be a Chinese/Russian stooge...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That's not my angle. I just think it should be none of US business. Like this:


It's interesting that you think just because China doesn't get involved in military action that it doesn't interfere in other countries.

It's been intervening in other countries for years, ask Cambodia, Laos, Venezuela, heaven knows how many African countries how much they owe China and what China is parasitically gorging on in their lands as a result. Oil, Gold, Fish, minerals, you name it.

This is first case where China might have realised that it's "not intervened" too much.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Remember the golden rule folks, anyone who challenges Harry's world view must be a Chinese/Russian stooge...


Only foobar would think that being an employee of Russia state media does not make you a Russian stooge.

Sorry, 

Only a fucking idiot would think that being an employee of Russia state media does not make you a Russian stooge.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> 20 tons of Venezuelan gold packed up on a plane headed to Russia ......or Dubai....
> 
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/venez...022753684.html


I can see the UAE buying gold for cash. Not Dubai though. Scabby Dhabi. Didn't spend a lot on players so they have some left over.

----------


## Klondyke

*Lima Group opposes military intervention in Venezuela

*A group of Latin American countries that includes Canada and that is largely opposed to the Venezuelan government has nevertheless expressed opposition to any military intervention in Venezuela, amid speculation that the United States is preparing to invade the country to overthrow the government of President Nicolas Maduro.

Peru’s Foreign Minister Nestor Popolizio said on Tuesday that the members of the Lima Group — a 14-country bloc that includes Canada — “do not support any military intervention in Venezuela.”

---

Lima Group calls urgent meeting on Venezuela crisis

The Lima Group has also scheduled an urgent meeting next week in Canada to discuss the Venezuelan crisis.

According to Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland, foreign ministers from the group will meet on Monday in Ottawa “to discuss what steps we can take to support interim president Juan Guaido and the people of Venezuela.”

Freeland accused Maduro of creating “an economic, political, and humanitarian crisis” in his country.

She did not specify whether Mexico — which has refused to support Guaido against the elected government of Maduro — would attend. Mexico’s new government has said it will not take sides and says supporting Guaido is a violation of Venezuela’s sovereignty.

Mexico has also urged the Lima Group to refrain from interfering in Venezuela’s internal affairs.

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/...y-intervention

----------


## SKkin

> It's interesting that you think just because China doesn't get involved in military action that it doesn't interfere in other countries


I didn't mean I thought that was completely true. I meant I wish that was US foreign policy and that it was adhered to. If I remember correctly, that's what George Washington counseled in his Farewell Address.




> While, then, every part of our country thus feels an immediate and  particular interest in union, all the parts combined cannot fail to find  in the united mass of means and efforts greater strength, greater  resource, proportionably greater security from external danger, a less  frequent interruption of their peace by foreign nations; and, what is of  inestimable value, they must derive from union an exemption from those  broils and wars between themselves, which so frequently afflict  neighboring countries not tied together by the same governments, which  their own rival ships alone would be sufficient to produce, but which  opposite foreign alliances, attachments, and intrigues would stimulate  and embitter. Hence, likewise, they will avoid the necessity of those  overgrown military establishments which, under any form of government,  are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as  particularly hostile to republican liberty. In this sense it is that  your union ought to be considered as a main prop of your liberty, and  that the love of the one ought to endear to you the preservation of the  other.


. . .




> The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in  extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little  political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed  engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us  stop. Europe[or South America] has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a  very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent  controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our  concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate  ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her  politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships  or enmities.
> 
> Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a  different course. If we remain one people under an efficient  government. the period is not far off when we may defy material injury  from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause  the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously  respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making  acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation;  when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice,  shall counsel. 
> 
> Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our  own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with  that of any part of Europe[South America], entangle our peace and prosperity in the  toils of European[South American] ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice? 
> 
> It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any  portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now  at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of  patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less  applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always  the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be  observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary  and would be unwise to extend them. 
> 
> Taking care always to keep ourselves by suitable establishments on a  respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary  alliances for extraordinary emergencies. 
> ...


Avalon Project - Washington's Farewell Address 1796

----------


## Hugh Cow

> That's not my angle. I just think it should be none of US business. Like this:
> 
> 
> 
> All of our interventions seem to lead to tears...tears from the countries where we intervene and from US taxpayers. Not to mention US military families who lose loved ones when the interventions turn into wars.
> 
> 
> Did interference from us, in the past, in South America somehow lead to those two oppressive regimes in the first place? I wouldn't be surprised. Look what our interference in Iran in the 1950s led to.


I agree with some of your points and the U.S involvement in supporting some of south americas worst dictators as well as its attempts in trying or suceeeding to remove regimes who were anti U.S. is frankly quite shameful. However it is not in south americas interest to have another unstable country in a region where internal wars and corrupt, dictatorial regimes have been rife. 
Chavez's socialist dream is over, luckily for him he died before it eventually got into this position. Corruption a failure to diversify the economy away from oil under both Chavez and Maduro and a collapse of the oil price has seen the countries GDP collapse by 50% and inflation spiral out of control. Anyone who thinks this was a secret U.S. plot is either dreaming or does not have a clue on economics. 
It does say something about a President whose only support comes from a totaltarian regime that it owes an estimated $19 billion+ and is now making interest only payments to and a pseudo dictatorship that has sold them over a billion dollars worth of arms and is awaiting a $100 million debt repayment by the Venezuelan govt by the end of march. Any change in government that might not honour these agreements would be a worry to these 2 dictatorships.

----------


## SKkin

> collapse of the oil price


Venezuela and its oil may have got caught up in intrigue aimed elsewhere. And now the US sees a crisis there it doesn't want let go to waste. What better time for regime change? Chavez and his successor Maduro have been a pain in the US ass for quite some time now, no?


From 2014:
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Pric...il-Prices.html




> What is the reason for the United States and some U.S. allies  wanting to drive down the price of oil? Venezuelan President Nicolas  Maduro asked rhetorically in October. To harm Russia.
> 
> Many  believe the oil price plunge is the result of deliberate and  well-planned collusion on the part of the United States and Saudi Arabia  to punish Russia and Iran for supporting the murderous Assad regime in  Syria.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _What is the reason for the United States and some U.S. allies wanting to drive down the price of oil? Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro asked rhetorically in October. To harm Russia._
> 
> _Many believe the oil price plunge is the result of deliberate and well-planned collusion on the part of the United States and Saudi Arabia to punish Russia and Iran for supporting the murderous Assad regime in Syria._


As I've already stated, the reason the oil price is being artificially kept low is that Russia and Saudi Arabia have agreed to keep production up.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKCN1MD0Y8

There is a lot more to the global economy than oil producers; a high oil price affects everyone.

Russia is happy with its lot.

In other words, Maduro is lying. His countrys oil revenue hasn't tanked because of the oil price; it's tanked because he's fucked up his country's oil industry and mortgaged what little they are still producing mainly to the Chinkies.

----------


## reddog

The big loser when the leader of the down trodden masses, Maduro gets the boot will be Cuba.
The Cuban commos will be blaming the Imperialist Capitalist running dogs when the free oil runs out.
Will piss them off after they spent all that time and manpower running Maduro's security services and then it comes to naught.
Even the symbol of the embargo,those old Yank tanks spluttering around Havana will be grounded, sorry no petrol senor.

----------


## SKkin

> In other words, Maduro is lying. His countrys oil revenue hasn't tanked because of the oil price; it's tanked because he's fucked up his country's oil industry and mortgaged what little they are still producing mainly to the Chinkies.


Maybe so...but something I didn't think of last night, was that even before oil prices collapsed there were US sanctions on Venezuela. Does anyone remember when and why US first put sanctions on them? Without looking, from what I remember, it was either Baby Bush or Obomba who did it...and it had something to do with the identity of one of Venezuela's main customers. Pretty sure Chavez was still in power when US sanctions were first put on Venezuela.

Anyway...I suppose all of these sanctions had nothing whatsoever to do with the current state of the Venezuelan oil industry.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Anyway...I suppose all of these sanctions had nothing whatsoever to do with the current state of the Venezuelan oil industry.


Considering the relevant ones were only applied four days ago - no.

----------


## foobar

.....




> 01/23/19  White House Statement From President Donald J. Trump Recognizing Venezuelan National Assembly President Juan Guaido as the Interim President of Venezuela
> 01/12/19 Ensuring Venezuela's Constitutional Order and Safety of Elected Officials; Deputy Spokesperson Robert Palladino; Washington, DC
> 01/08/19  Treasury Targets Venezuela Currency Exchange Network Scheme Generating Billions of Dollars for Corrupt Regime Insiders
> 12/18/18  Venezuela Fact Sheet
> 11/02/18  Remarks by National Security Advisor Ambassador John R. Bolton on the Administration's Policies in Latin America
> 09/25/18 The United States Imposes Sanctions on Venezuelan Individuals and Entities; Office of the Spokesperson; Washington, DC
> 09/25/18  Treasury Targets Venezuelan President Maduro's Inner Circle and Proceeds of Corruption in the United States
> 05/18/18  Treasury Targets Influential Former Venezuelan Official and His Corruption Network
> 03/19/18  Treasury Sanctions Four Current or Former Venezuelan Officials Associated with Economic Mismanagement and Corruption
> ...

----------


## SKkin

> 12/18/14 Statement by the White House Press Secretary: Bills Signed into Law


From 2011
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2...inst-venezuela

The hyperlinked Press Release has been moved though...

----------


## harrybarracuda

All very thrilling I'm sure, but the one you should note is the one that actually stops them selling oil to US refiners.

Never mind eh, they can use that 500mpbd to pay off the chinkies quicker.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Another subtle hint to _Chavismo._




> *Venezuelan general deserts Nicolas Maduro in highest ranking military defection to hit regime*
> 
> A general from the Venezuelan air force has announced he no longer recognises Nicolas Maduro as the country's president, in what appears to be the highest ranking military defection to hit the regime. 
> 
> In a video circulating on social media on Saturday, General Francisco Esteban Yanez Rodriguez says he has disavowed the "dictatorial" authority of Mr Maduro and now recognises Juan Guaido, the self-declared interim president, as Venezuela's leader.
> 
> Wearing military uniform, Gen. Yanez identifies himself as director of strategic planning in the high command of the Venezuelan air force. His role and identity corresponds with that listed on the force's website. 
> 
> The general claims that 90 per cent of the country's armed forces "are not with the dictator, they are with the people of Venezuela".
> ...

----------


## uncle junior

Smells like CIA involvement

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Smells like CIA involvement


Smells like someone who hasn't got most of his snout in the trough.

----------


## Klondyke

> Several European countries, including the UK, have given Mr Maduro a deadline of midnight on Sunday to call fresh elections,


Didn't they forget that their friend dangerous Mr. Putin can manage the election as he wants? Much more easier with the friend Maduro than with Hillary...

----------


## Dragonfly

> Smells like CIA involvement


you think? probably have a suitcase full of cash for those generals to defect

----------


## SKkin

The US has the best interests of the Venezuelan people at heart.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

What a disgrace...in a long line of them.

----------


## SKkin

Trust the likes of these people...they, with the aid of the media, would never lie.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




Your Complete Guide to the N.Y. Times’ Support of U.S.-Backed Coups in Latin America         
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/yo...latin-america/




> There’s a familiar script: The CIA and its U.S. corporate partners come  in, wage economic warfare, fund and arm the opposition, then the target  of this operation is blamed. This, of course, isn’t to say there isn’t  merit to some of the objections being raised by The New York  Times—whether it be Chile in 1973 or Venezuela in 2019. But that’s not  really the point. The reason the CIA and U.S. military and its corporate  partisans historically target governments in Latin America is because  those governments are hostile to U.S. capital and strategic interests,  not because they are undemocratic. So while the points the Times makes  about illiberalism may sometimes be true, they’re mostly a non sequitur  when analyzing the reality of what’s unfolding.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _The reason the CIA and U.S. military and its corporate partisans historically target governments in Latin America is because those governments are hostile to U.S. capital and strategic interests_


Kept selling oil to the US - hardly hostile to capital interests.

I suppose there are strategic interests if China decides it wants to take Venezuela's ports over, Sri Lanka-style.

----------


## Dragonfly

the US is using their only effective WMD to change the world as it sees it fit, the USD and financial sanctions

it's hard to import food when you can't even wire the money to buy it

----------


## leatherseat

> Kept selling oil to the US - hardly hostile to capital interests.
> 
> I suppose there are strategic interests if China decides it wants to take Venezuela's ports over, Sri Lanka-style.


Happy CNY Harry.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Happy CNY Harry.


What is it now, the Chinese New Year of the Intellectual Property Thief?

----------


## The Shining Light

Big up the Italians, and fvck the paltry six US European lap dogs.

----------


## thailazer

Rather concerning that the Russians are making a presence there.    They sure would not have tried that prior to Trump.

----------


## HuangLao

The perpetual search for the proverbial, traditional, and invented enemies. 

Look inward.

----------


## foobar

Another country who "invited" the US to "help"....how will Harry "explain" this one away?  :Smile: 




> _
> Iraqi President Barham Salih has said US President Donald Trump did not ask Iraq's permission for US troops stationed there to "watch Iran".
> 
> Salih was responding on Monday to Trump's comments to US media in which he said American forces would remain at a US base in Iraq to keep a close eye on neighbouring Iran. 
> 
> The Iraqi leader, speaking at a forum in Baghdad, said US troops in the country are there as part of an agreement between the two countries with a specific mission of combating "terrorism" and that any action taken outside that framework is "unacceptable". 
> 
> "Don't overburden Iraq with your own issues," Salih said. "The US is a major power ... but do not pursue your own policy priorities, we live here."
> 
> ...

----------


## The Shining Light

> Rather concerning that the Russians are making a presence there.


Concerning for who, you Americans?

Russia and China do business with the rest of the planet, unlike America  who bombs them and steals their shit.

----------


## OhOh

A few days away and look what happens to a sensible thread.




> China doesn't get involved in military action that it doesn't interfere in other countries.





> It's been intervening in other countries for years, ask Cambodia, Laos, Venezuela, heaven knows how many African countries


Intervening military or as some prefer to say, "supporting"?




> it is not in south americas interest to have another unstable country in a region where internal wars and corrupt, dictatorial regimes have been rife.


One wonders what the ameristanis have been doing for decades, if not raping and plundering  South America, SOP, the ameristani way. Keeping the Monroe Doctrine countries as banana republics has been the profitable way for decades. Develop them why?




> Chavez and Maduro and a collapse of the oil price has seen the countries GDP collapse by 50% and inflation spiral out of control.


I am sure that ameristani financial, product and technical sanctions had nothing to do with the problems.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> this was a secret U.S. plot is either dreaming or does not have a clue on economics.


Secret, you've got to be joking, it's business as usual for the western, centuries old,  rape and pillage model, worldwide. The only thing ameristan needs is to stop any loss of use the petro$. It's lost the ME suppliers, fortress ameristan needs to insure all the South American suppliers stay on board with the petro$.




> It does say something about a President whose only support comes from a totaltarian regime that it owes an estimated $19 billion+ and is now making interest only payments to and a pseudo dictatorship that has sold them over a billion dollars worth of arms and is awaiting a $100 million debt repayment by the Venezuelan govt by the end of march. Any change in government that might not honour these agreements would be a worry to these 2 dictatorships.


When were these contracts, you refer too, signed? Prior to or after the ameristani instituted oil price collapse edicts? SOP for ameristani decades oldboom and bust economics, for the rest of the world's countries.




> it's tanked because he's fucked up his country's oil industry and mortgaged what little they are still producing mainly to the Chinkies.


You may want to look into what affect Chinese investment, in their Venezuelan projects, have done to oil production at their projects..




> Considering the relevant ones were only applied four days ago - no


Really? Sanctions have been there for years, or in your opinion are they not relevant to your position, on today's situation.




> A general from the Venezuelan air force has announced he no longer recognises Nicolas Maduro as the country's presiden


Some perspective for you "arry.  :Smile: 

"Venezuela has more than *4,000 generals*, compared with fewer than 50 in  1993. This kind of runaway inflation is every bit as pernicious as the  economic variety, which also afflicts Venezuela -- in fact, they have to be addressed together."

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...ut-of-business




> Kept selling oil to the US - hardly hostile to capital interests.


It's the main type of oil the ameristani Caribbean refiners are designed to process. To costly to change the mix/profits calcs. Paid in petro$ as well. Win/win for ameristan, Venezuala, not so much.

https://viableopposition.blogspot.co...venezuela.html




> it's hard to import food when you can't even wire the money to buy it


The food was there, in the local wharehouses, but kept ut of the shops. Unfortunately the ameristani backed buyers sold it to neighbouring countries instead of their own people, the price made a handsome capitalist profit. Allegedly a handsome capitalist profitable FX deal as well.




> Happy CNY Harry.


Because of what?

----------


## OhOh

> What is it now, the Chinese New Year of the Intellectual Property Thief?


Trying to catch up with the centuries old western IP theft.

https://www.txpatentattorney.com/blo...tual-property/

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Another country who "invited" the US to "help"....how will Harry "explain" this one away?


Why the fuck would I bother trying to explain what's going on in that bald orange cunto's head? He's as mental as you are.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Rather concerning that the Russians are making a presence there.    They sure would not have tried that prior to Trump.


Of course they would have - and they did. As soon as Venezuela looked vulnerable, Putin was in there like a rat - appropriate really - up a drainpipe.

He just didn't go in quite as hard as the chinkies. After all, he doesn't need the oil.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> A few days away


Not enough, sadly.

----------


## OhOh

*Armada of tankers with Venezuelan oil forms in U.S. Gulf: sources, data*

_"HOUSTON/MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - A flotilla loaded with about 7 million  barrels of Venezuelan oil has formed in the Gulf of Mexico, some holding  cargoes bought ahead of the latest U.S. sanctions on Venezuela and  others whose buyers are weighing who to pay, according to traders,  shippers and Refinitiv Eikon data.

__The Trump administration’s move to impose sanctions last week was  meant to undercut support for Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro by  targeting the Latin American nation’s oil exports to the United States,  the source of most of its foreign revenue.    

_
_The sanctions aim  to block U.S. refiners from paying into PDVSA accounts controlled by  Maduro - one reason numerous tankers are waiting in limbo off Venezuela  with payments unclear. The United States buys 500,000 barrels of  Venezuelan crude per day.  

_
_U.S. customers of Venezuela’s  state-run PDVSA are required by sanctions to deposit payments into  escrow accounts that have not yet been set up. The funds will be  controlled by Venezuelan congress head Juan Guaido, whom the United  States, the European Union and much of Latin America recognize as the  country’s leader. 

_
_Neither the U.S. Treasury Department nor White House responded to requests for comment.  

_
_There  were over a dozen tankers this week anchored in Gulf of Mexico or  outside of Venezuelan waters, according to the Refinitiv Eikon data, as  shippers await payment and delivery directions from buyers. 

_
_Traders  said some of the cargoes were used as floating storage by buyers who  took advantage of PDVSA’s open market sales ahead of sanctions. Others  were held by trading firms  struggling to find refiners willing to take  the oil due to payment difficulties related to sanctions. 

_
_“There  were many cargoes of Venezuelan crude already in the Gulf when  sanctions were announced,” said a trader who deals with PDVSA. Others  are stuck because holders “cannot find who to sell them to due to  sanctions,” the trader said. 

_
_The tankers had been chartered by  regular U.S. buyers of Venezuelan oil, including Chevron Corp, PDVSA’s  refining unit Citgo Petroleum and Valero Energy, and trading houses that  sell to refiners. 

_
_“Everybody is still working through the  mechanics of things, still trying to figure out how freights are going  to get paid and is sitting on the sidelines waiting for this to roll  out,” said one ship broker on Monday who was not authorized to speak  publicly.   

_
_Chevron and Valero declined to comment. Citgo did not respond to requests for comment." _ 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-oil-shipments/armada-of-tankers-with-venezuelan-oil-forms-in-u-s-gulf-sources-data-idUSKCN1PT28X




It appears some oil tankers are not being unloaded . One presumes the  buyers signed a deal which cannot now be fulfilled due to ameristani  sanctions.The sellers are willing, the buyers are willing it's  ameristani government who may indict the buyers if they try and take  delivery

I'm sure The LORD or Uncle Xi will accept the money, just to help the ameristani refiner's owners out of a sticky situation. :Smile: 

Shortages of crude stock, increasing petrol prices in ameristan, panic food buying, shootings over the last packet of tasty "orange cheese flavoured" snacks, Walmart women wearing wide wrap arounds, crying in the isles of empty shelves.

MAuA.

----------


## Takeovers

> Armada of tankers with Venezuelan oil forms in U.S. Gulf: sources, data


So you confirm that no sanctions on oil have been in place up to now!

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So you confirm that no sanctions on oil have been in place up to now!


You'll always find chancers who think they can beat the system.

You would not believe how many people are still sitting on Iraqi dinars.

----------


## OhOh

> So you confirm that no sanctions on oil have been in place up to now!


The buying crude oil no. Where else would the ameristanis get the type of crude their refineries are specifically designed to process?

----------


## The Shining Light



----------


## Klondyke

And the other guy speaking yesterday to Al-Jazeera:

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes...064856707.html

----------


## Klondyke

And how kind from many fair-mided that they hurry to support and recognize a coup - however, not (yet) millitary - unlike in Thailand - and in other countries oppressed by a "dictator"...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The buying crude oil no. Where else would the ameristanis get the type of crude their refineries are specifically designed to process?


Off the top of my head, Saudi Arabia.

And it's not all of their refineries you fool.




> Heavy crude oil is generally categorized in two ways:
> 
> 
> Those that have over 1% sulfur (high sulfur crude oils), with aromatics and asphaltenes, and these are mostly found in North America (Canada (Alberta, Saskatchewan), United States (California), Mexico), South America (_Venezuela_, Colombia and Ecuador) and the Middle East (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia).
> 
> 
> Those that have less than 1% sulfur (low sulfur crude oils), with aromatics, naphthenes and resins, and these are mostly found in Western Africa (Chad), Central Africa (Angola) and East Africa (Madagascar).

----------


## Hugh Cow

> 


What an intense interview with such difficult, incisive questions. I must watch RT more often. Must be RT's equivalent of hard talk. Watch out Steven Sakur  :Sleeping:

----------


## HuangLao

> And how kind from many fair-mided that they hurry to support and recognize a coup - however, not (yet) millitary - unlike in Thailand - and in other countries oppressed by a "dictator"...


It's about priorities.....

Contradictory and hypocritical as they might seem.

----------


## foobar

> The buying crude oil no. Where else would the ameristanis get the type  of crude their refineries are specifically designed to process?
> 			
> 		
> 
> Off the top of my head, Saudi Arabia.


For continuity of logic, Saudi must be a democracy and believe in human rights?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> RT's equivalent of hard talk. Watch out Steven Sakur


I wouldn't recommend they call it "hard ball" or "curve ball". Perhaps "Easy street".

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> For continuity of logic, Saudi must be a democracy and believe in human rights?


I don't think Saudi Arabia is in the shit financially. I can't remember three million people fleeing either, just some bint whose dad wouldn't let go out with the lads.

----------


## foobar

> I don't think Saudi Arabia is in the shit financially.


So a dictatorship without a shred of democracy, dismembering a journalist with a bone saw, routine torture, oppressing women, mass murder in Yemen etc etc ...all ok in your book as long as their finances are in order?  :Smile: 

_
An estimated 85,000 children under the age of five have starved to death over the last three years as a result of Yemen’s civil war, a report from Save the Children has found, as the charity urged an immediate ceasefire to prevent more loss of life.

The figure is a conservative estimate based on UN data on severe acute malnutrition, which the international body says has afflicted more than 1.3 million children since the conflict between Houthi rebels and the Saudi-led coalition that seeks to restore Yemen’s exiled government began in 2015._

Yemen makes Venezuelan seem like utopian paradise in comparison.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So a dictatorship without a shred of democracy, dismembering a journalist with a bone saw, routine torture, oppressing women, mass murder in Yemen etc etc ...all ok in your book as long as their finances are in order? 
> 
> _
> An estimated 85,000 children under the age of five have starved to death over the last three years as a result of Yemen’s civil war, a report from Save the Children has found, as the charity urged an immediate ceasefire to prevent more loss of life.
> 
> The figure is a conservative estimate based on UN data on severe acute malnutrition, which the international body says has afflicted more than 1.3 million children since the conflict between Houthi rebels and the Saudi-led coalition that seeks to restore Yemen’s exiled government began in 2015._
> 
> Yemen makes Venezuelan seem like utopian paradise in comparison.


You raise an interesting point. Yeah, I don't give a shit.

Saudi are fighting Iran. While they're doing that, they're too busy to fuck up anyone else.

----------


## foobar

> Originally Posted by foobar
> 
> 
> So a dictatorship without a shred of democracy,  dismembering a journalist with a bone saw, routine torture, oppressing  women, mass murder in Yemen etc etc ...all ok in your book as long as  their finances are in order? 
> _
> An estimated 85,000 children under the age of five have starved to death  over the last three years as a result of Yemens civil war,
> 
> The figure is a conservative estimate based on UN data on severe acute  malnutrition, which the international body says has afflicted more than  1.3 million children since the conflict between Houthi rebels  and the Saudi-led coalition that seeks to restore Yemens exiled  government began in 2015._
> 
> ...


Oh dear!

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Oh dear!


Mate if you weren't such a c u n t you'd be getting stuck into China which arms both sides in the Yemen war.

China has been selling arms to Iran since Bush Jr. was President, and it's been selling stuff to the UAE to use in Yemen.

Yet you're strangely silent about them. Another snivelling sycophant? I'm afraid that TD job is already taken.


 :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

> Mate if you weren't such a c u n t you'd be getting stuck into China which arms both sides in the Yemen war.


That's why we like to highlight anything negative and ugly about China, unlike about some others (please no names here)...

----------


## foobar

> Mate if you weren't such a c u n t you'd be getting stuck into China which arms both sides in the Yemen war.
> 
> China has been selling arms to Iran since Bush Jr. was President, and it's been selling stuff to the UAE to use in Yemen.
> 
> Yet you're strangely silent about them. Another snivelling sycophant? I'm afraid that TD job is already taken.


The numbers don't lie...

----------


## OhOh

> The numbers don't lie...


Shush, you'll awake a slumbering bear.

 

You know Russian and Chinese intelligence officers  look at everything on the net,  jpg's included. They will now work at being the No.1 and sell 1,000 times more than the current, exceptional, world's leader in death and destruction products.

Asking 'arry to discuss real facts leads to nothing more than childish schoolboy swear words.  He was obviously lacking in stature in his school playgrounds.

Unless your source is CNN.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The numbers don't lie...



Aaaaaand fucknuts thinks Iran is not "intervening" in Yemen.

Your blinkered hatred of all things seppo makes you look very stupid.

----------


## harrybarracuda

An already volatile political situation in Venezuela escalated on January 23, as opposition leader Juan Guaidó declared himself interim president of the embattled South American country.


The move by Guaidó, who was head of the National Assembly when its legislative power was transferred to a new Supreme Justice Tribunal packed with lawmakers loyal to incumbent Nicolás Maduro in 2017, has led to domestic unrest and international divisions.

As head of the circumscribed former legislature, the US, Canada and some major Latin American economies - Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Peru and Chile - have recognised Guaidó as Venezuela’s legitimate leader.

Meanwhile, Russia condemned what it frames as his attempted power-grab and other countries, like Mexico, Uruguay and Germany, have called for a peaceful political negotiation that can lead to fresh elections.

Most invested in Venezuela is China, which has provided loans worth over 60 billion dollars since the turn of the century. At stake, they and Venezuela’s other backers say, is the country’s national sovereignty and governance free from foreign interference.


In a characteristically non-committal statement, Hua Chunying, a Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson, said: “We call on all parties involved to be calm and rational, and seek a political solution under the Venezuelan constitution through peaceful dialogue. China supports the Venezuela government’s efforts to protect national sovereignty, independence and stability. China has always adhered to the principle of non-interference and objects to external intervention into Venezuela’s internal affairs”.

China has provided political and financial support to Venezuela throughout its painfully slow descent into economic and humanitarian crises.
But Beijing’s refusal to acknowledge the role its loans and diplomatic support have played in the slow deterioration of events in Venezuela hold valuable lessons that its decision-makers, and its international partners, would be unwise to ignore.
*Long time coming*In the spring of 2012, China’s biggest Latin America-focused think tank, the Beijing-based Institute of Latin American Studies (ILAS, part of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences) invited me to give a talk on political risk in Latin America.

The choice of topic was particularly intriguing given rising anxiety about the ‘Arab Spring’ and the threats it posed to China’s commercial interests in regions like Africa and the Middle East. Around the same time, China’s rapidly expanding oil, finance and diplomatic relationship with Venezuela’s Hugo Chávez roused some Chinese policy makers’ and think-tank researchers’ curiosity. Though political risk in the oil-rich country was new to me, I chose to present on the topic.

From rising social and political polarisation to politicisation and mismanagement of the oil sector to Chávez’s growing health concerns, it was clear Venezuela presented more formidable political risks for any investor or lender, including China, than any country in the Western Hemisphere.

Yet, although they noted the worrying trends in Venezuela, ILAS researchers ultimately felt China’s economic and diplomatic interests would not be adversely affected. Venezuela, they reasoned, had a lot of oil and China needed a lot of oil. China also had a lot of money to pay for it.


Fast forward over six years and Chavez’s anointed successor Nicolás Maduro is scarcely two weeks into his hotly disputed second term as he finds his legitimacy challenged. Profound economic and humanitarian crises grip the country.

The question of how China should understand and manage political risk in Venezuela has become one of the most important, if too often ignored, questions in China’s relationship with Latin America and in its broader efforts to be seen as development partner worldwide.

The relationship is one of superlatives: Venezuela has the world’s largest oil reserves, China is the world’s largest oil importer, China has lent more money to Venezuela than any other country in the world.

It has been characterised by larger-than-life personalities – at least on the Venezuelan side. It has long since become a debacle.
The deepening crisis has attracted global headlines and concern. Yet China has neither acknowledged its role and interests in Venezuela’s crisis, nor sought to address the plight of one of its closest allies in the Americas.

So how did we get here? And what does the current situation tell us about China’s ties with Latin America and its even more high-profile efforts at stimulating global development and South-South cooperation?

A perfect storm

On the surface, the China-Venezuela relationship fits into the broader pattern of raw materials-based trade, investment and financial ties with South America in the first decade or so of the 21st century.

The China-led commodity boom from around 2003-2013 ushered in massive new trade flows of agricultural (soy), mining (copper and iron ore) and energy (oil) commodities from South America to China. It rapidly became the number one trade partner for countries like Brazil, Chile and Peru. Venezuela, with the world’s largest oil reserves, seemed a perfect partner for the world’s largest crude oil importer.

Even as Venezuela has descended into crisis, China has at least officially continued to emphasise the natural “complementarity” of the relationship – a stabilising ballast amidst the storm.

Yet from the beginning, the China-Venezuela relationship has stood out among all of China’s ties to commodity-rich countries, not just in South America but globally.

Chávez and China’s “superbank”, the China Development Bank (CDB), together created a loans-for-oil and diplomatic partnership that aimed to showcase the possibilities of South-South cooperation ushered in by China’s emergence as a global actor. Instead, it serves as a cautionary tale of hubris and unintended consequences.

In Venezuela, Chávez saw China as a crucial partner in efforts to control the nation’s abundant oil supplies and implement radical domestic and foreign policy agendas.

Not only did expanding exports to China fit Chávez’s rhetoric of diversifying away from export dependence on the US, but massive loans-for-oil deals with the CDB (40 billion dollars prior to his death in 2013) provided a steady supply of economically and politically exchangeable funds that no other international creditors would or could provide.

By emphasising China’s socialist and revolutionary bona fides (faded or imagined as they may be), Chávez also found a convenient, if reticent, partner in his Bolivarian Revolutionary agenda at home and abroad.

On the Chinese side, another largely practical trade and investment relationship with a commodity-rich South American country soon turned into something quite different.

Instead of buying Venezuelan oil as India has done, China’s state-owned CDB set up a series of multi-billion dollar loans-for-oil deals. These loans still constitute China’s largest outlay of finance to any other country.


Part of the CDB’s eagerness to lend to Venezuela in the years under the leadership of Chen Yuan, the seemingly untouchable president and Chinese Communist Party scion, is explained by trying to establish its credentials as China’s principal financier of global energy deals.

It was no coincidence that the largest loans, including one for 20 billion dollars in 2010, came as huge new sources of liquidity sloshed around the Chinese financial system in response to the global financial crisis.

Chávez and the CDB convinced themselves that theirs was an economically and politically astute and viable partnership. But even in 2012, a growing sense of unease about Venezuela was spreading in Beijing, including concerns about Hugo Chávez’s ill health.

Chávez died in 2014 and was replaced by a leader in whom China had far less confidence. Add to that, the global price of oil had plunged. What has followed has been a disaster for the people of Venezuela and has also undermined every element of China’s interest in the relationship.

The near complete meltdown in Venezuela’s oil production means its government has been unable to service the original terms of the more than 60 billion dollar loans. There has been a de facto default and fewer than the agreed oil shipments to China.

Worse, Venezuela’s oil production crisis has contributed to a rise in global prices, raising China’s total oil import bill. From almost every possible angle, the China-Venezuela relationship has become completely dysfunctional for the governments, businesses and citizens of both countries.
*Broader lessons*Unsurprisingly, neither the Chinese nor Venezuelan authorities publicly acknowledge that their relationship has failed to live up to the high expectations set over a decade ago.

China has dramatically scaled back the scope of its lending in recent years, but at each new sign of Venezuela’s further descent into crisis, Chinese foreign policy leaders make formulaic statements about their hopes for “stability” in Venezuela.


China has refused to play any public role in Latin American regional efforts, such as through the Lima Group, to help Venezuela find a more sustainable path forward. China has washed its hands of the crisis it first facilitated and then failed to help resolve.

Beyond what has gone wrong with China-Venezuela ties, their relationship has broader, too often underappreciated, implications.

It is clear Venezuela remains an important test case for how Chinese researchers as well as government and business officials understand, or misunderstand, political risk in Latin America and beyond.

There was a strong belief in China that complementary oil-based linkages, grounded in seemingly unshakeable ties between Venezuela’s paramount leader and one of China’s state-banking champions, could not be derailed.

Both parties believed that through loans-for-oil deals, China would both guarantee oil flows and loan repayments while remaining immune from any vicissitudes of Venezuelan economics or politics.

All these assumptions have been upended in Venezuela. Yet China has made similar choices in supporting other resource-rich developing countries in Africa and Asia.

It’s hard to find another equivalent of Chávez’s Venezuela, but Mugabe’s Zimbabwe or Hun Sen’s Cambodia offer parallels. The massive debt-based relationship that China built up with Venezuela is a warning sign for debtors and lenders alike as China seeks to extend its Belt and Road infrastructure plan.
*Final thoughts*In the more than six years since that original ILAS presentation, I have been writing, speaking and teaching about the slow-motion train wreck that is China-Venezuela relations.

Certainly, the US has made bigger mistakes in Latin America and elsewhere, but something must change.

As a country that is working to improve climate governance both at home and abroad, China must engage with Venezuela to think of innovative ways to develop the country’s oil resources in a sustainable way.Given China’s growing role as an important energy and infrastructure lender, a more honest acknowledgement of its experience in Venezuela is required.

As I reflect on years researching and writing about China and Venezuela and of teaching in a Chinese university (I left Tsinghua University last summer), it strikes me that even though I gave what I viewed as a constructively critical view, not once have I been directly or indirectly challenged.

In fact, the opposite was true, even in think-tank conferences, media interviews and other fora. This may come as a surprise given China’s well-deserved reputation for sensitivity to criticism of its foreign policy or for the lack of intellectual freedom in public institutions.

They listened politely, but China’s foreign policy and bank officials should embrace a more sensitive and empathetic approach toward Latin America and other developing regions. Only then, might they avoid the same mistakes other global powers have made.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/democr...-perfect-storm

----------


## harrybarracuda

The plight of the Venezuelan people has resulted in one of the largest refugee flows in the world today. Millions have fled and are fleeing their homeland—a crisis that is being perpetuated by Nicolás Maduro’s corrupt and criminal dictatorship.

While the United Nations sounds the alarm on a critical shortage of basic necessities and the weaponization of food and medicine—resulting in dramatic rises in infant and maternal mortality, starvation, stunted growth, and a staggering resurgence of diseases that were formerly eradicated—Maduro has prevented international relief, blocking humanitarian aid. Rather than allowing the Venezuelan people to express their grievances and exercise their constitutional right to peacefully protest and seek solutions at the ballot box, he instead arrests, imprisons, tortures, and murders them.

Whether from independent Venezuelan organizations such as Foro Penal and the Venezuelan Observatory of Social Conflict, international nongovernmental organizations such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, or intergovernmental organizations such as the Organization of American States (OAS) and the U.N. Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, there is a critical mass of studies on the human rights crisis in Venezuela.

The OAS Panel of Independent International Experts held public hearings and examined all the evidence, publishing a 451-page report that found there are reasonable grounds to conclude that seven major crimes against humanity have been committed against civilians in Venezuela, including mass murder and extrajudicial executions; widespread imprisonment and deprivation of liberty; horrific acts of torture; and the weaponization of rape and sexual violence. A U.N. investigation reached a similar conclusion.

Maduro’s brutal and criminal assault on the Venezuelan people is, at its core, an offensive against the liberal democratic order that is meant to protect them.Maduro’s brutal and criminal assault on the Venezuelan people is, at its core, an offensive against the liberal democratic order that is meant to protect them. Judges are jailed, the rule of law ruined, and civil society silenced—all while democrats are detained, dispossessed, and disappeared.

In 2017, Maduro arbitrarily convened a “Constituent Assembly,” seeking to replace the opposition-controlled and democratically-elected National Assembly. This unconstitutional pseudo-legislature consists entirely of Maduro’s supporters and family members, selected in a sham election that even the company running the voting machines for the regime called fraudulent.

In 2018, Maduro had his illegitimate assembly unconstitutionally call a snap presidential election, while unjustly imprisoning or banning any viable opposition candidate. In an unprecedented move, the international community condemned this election as a fraud, with over 50 countries, the OAS, and the European Union refusing to recognize this farcical presidential vote that was neither free nor fair.

Last month, Maduro sought to strike the death knell for Venezuelan democracy, formally inaugurating himself as president, without a mandate. Significantly, the hitherto divided democratic opposition quickly coalesced around Juan Guaidó, the president of the National Assembly—Venezuela’s last remaining democratically elected institution—still operating despite Maduro’s efforts to replace it.

Guaidó invoked Venezuela’s constitutional crisis provisions—Articles 233, 333, and 350—which empower the president of the National Assembly to assume interim presidency of the country to restore the democratic order. He has already begun this process. Guaidó has offered amnesty to any military officers who disobey the dictatorship and has indicated he would do the same for Maduro if he were to allow free and fair elections.

If the leadership of his political party, Voluntad Popular, is any indication, Guaidó’s aspirations for the future are likely to bear fruit. First, they found common ground and forged a united front with a famously fractious opposition. Second—and contrary to what the defenders of dictatorship declare—the Voluntad Popular is a progressive and pluralistic political party. Indeed, the charter of this social democratic party calls for an inclusive society, free of discrimination based on “religion, age, race, sexual orientation, gender identity, or political opinions.” This affirmation found expression in the last election, where the first LGBTQ legislators in Venezuela’s history were voted in as part of Voluntad Popular’s team, with the internationally renowned transgender human rights lawyer Tamara Adrián among them.

Third, and most importantly for the future of human rights and democracy in Venezuela, the opposition has relied on the courage and commitment of the Venezuelan people. They sustained mass grassroots gatherings throughout Venezuela in the face of violent repression.

Calling Guaidó’s nascent government a U.S. coup is as absurd as it is abhorrent. It is to deny the struggle and strength of the Venezuelan people, and the vigor and values of their constitution.Calling Guaidó’s nascent government a U.S. coup is as absurd as it is abhorrent. It is to deny the struggle and strength of the Venezuelan people, and the vigor and values of their constitution. It is also to minimize and marginalize the mass mobilization of support and solidarity for the Venezuelan people from the international community of democracies.

It is an understandable point of propaganda that the dictatorship would pursue, given both its anti-Americanism and some of the historically harmful U.S. interventionism in the region. But fostering such a notion in the current circumstances is fantastical, given the peaceful and constitutional character of the Venezuelan people’s democratic revolution.

Rather than a regime change emanating from Washington, support for Guaidó has been spearheaded by Venezuela’s neighboring democracies and regional figures well-known for their principled human rights leadership, such as Canada’s Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland and OAS Secretary-General Luis Almagro. The Lima group of regional states was the first to denounce the dictatorship for Maduro’s sham inauguration and renounce their recognition of the regime, well before the U.S. government chose to do so. Likewise, Canada has had a special coordinator for Venezuela for a number of years now, while Washington just appointed such an envoy only last week. Clearly, the United States has not been playing the role Maduro would like the world to believe.

There has indeed been foreign military intervention in Venezuela, just not from the United States. Rather, a community of authoritarian states—Russia, China, Iran, Turkey, Syria—is backing Maduro.There has indeed been foreign military intervention in Venezuela, just not from the United States. Rather, a community of authoritarian states—Russia, China, Iran, Turkey, Syria—is backing Maduro. Indeed, Putin has been sending Russian mercenaries to support him, on the heels of a visit by nuclear-capable Russian bombers and talk of a joint military base. While diplomatically endorsing and militarily entrenching the Maduro dictatorship, Putin has encouraged pursuing negotiations. But such negotiations without preconditions have already been pursued many times, with many different mediators, always resulting in the Venezuelan people being worse off than before.

There is only one path forward. First, the international community should stand with and strengthen Guaidó’s democratic presidency. The critical mass of countries that recognized his rule should rally their allies to do the same. Such recognition could entail the dismissal of the dictatorship’s diplomats and the welcoming of Guaidó’s envoys for democratic dialogue and strategic support.

Second, countries opposed to Maduro should enact an arms embargo on the dictatorship, including on servicing existing deals and on the sale of dual-use materials.

Third, targeted sanctions against individuals—such as those enabled by Global Magnitsky legislation—should be leveled against Venezuela’s architects of repression and their enablers, publicly naming and shaming them, and enforcing travel bans and asset seizures against them. While some states have already undertaken such sanctions, they should coordinate internationally to significantly enlarge and intensify its implementation. This may include listing the family and friends of such officials, who at best live lavish lives abroad fueled by corruption and at worst act as a front to help the main perpetrators evade sanctions.

Fourth, and in this same spirit of justice and accountability, countries should join in the referral of the situation in Venezuela to the International Criminal Court. The ICC has opened a preliminary examination—a major first step toward the prospective prosecution of those responsible—but is woefully understaffed, underfunded, and under pressure from many competing undertakings. Contributions from supportive governments—whether moral or material—can help strengthen the important work of the court.

Finally, while the Maduro dictatorship has blocked humanitarian aid, Guaidó has urgently appealed to the world to supply crucial aid. Friends of Venezuela should heed this callGuaidó has urgently appealed to the world to supply crucial aid. 

Friends of Venezuela should heed this call, grounded in the recent U.N. resolution, by organizing a major international convoy of humanitarian aid for the Venezuelan people. It should be launched publicly, prominently, and peacefully, with media encouraged to join and observe. The Venezuelan soldiers guarding the ports of entry and implementing Maduro’s cruel blockade—and whose families are also suffering the deprivations wrought by the dictatorship—would be presented with an opportunity to join Guaidó and the U.N. in alleviating the suffering, or the Maduro dictatorship in perpetuating it. Their choice would be broadcast for all to see.

By sending these messages, governments throughout the Americas and the world will make clear that democracy and the people’s will will prevail over demagoguery and repression.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/02/06...sanctions-icc/

----------


## harrybarracuda

Ohoh and his wannabes fit this profile so perfectly.




> The Left Keeps Getting Venezuela Wrong
> Anti-imperialists prefer a Russian-backed dictator to a public revolt.
> 
> 
> BY JAMES BLOODWORTH | JANUARY 28, 2019, 12:04 PM
> 
> Venezuela is engulfed in a government-inflicted economic crisis twice the size of the Great Depression, which has provoked the largest movement of refugees in the recent history of Latin America. Meanwhile, the regime that has presided over this catastrophe is morphing from a nasty autocracy to a potentially full-blown dictatorship.
> 
> The American right is already using the failure of Venezuelan socialism as a means to attack the socialist movement. Yet Venezuelans are starving, and to weaponize the fact merely to bash the left represents not only the height of bad taste but also the maximum of solipsism. The posturing of pundits is insignificant next to the suffering on the ground.
> ...

----------


## Klondyke

> The plight of the Venezuelan people


Wasn't the plight of Afghani, Iraqi, Lybia (you name it) people the reason for their "liberation"?

Wondering when some power that be will be concerned about the plight of poor people in other countries? (please no names here)

----------


## harrybarracuda

Imagine being starving and seeing your bosses block access to food....




> Caracas, Venezuela -- President Trump made little mention of the crisis unfolding little more than 1,000 miles from the Florida coast in his State of the Union address on Tuesday night, but he reiterated his backing of "the Venezuelan people and their noble quest for freedom." Mr. Trump condemned the "brutality" of the embattled regime of President Nicolas Maduro, whom Washington has declared an illegitimate leader.
> 
> 
> The U.S. and almost 30 other nations, along with several regional blocs, have backed the shadow administration of the self-declared "interim president," opposition leader Juan Guaidó. But a standoff between the two sides is still playing out, with major world powers China and Russia backing Maduro.
> 
> The Venezuelan armed forces are the kingmakers in the epic power struggle. Everyone in the country is waiting for a sign that the generals are ready to desert President Maduro.
> 
> CBS News spoke to some members of the rank and file. At great risk to himself, a junior officer from Venezuela's National Guard, one branch of the military, agreed to talk to on condition that we obscure his identity and voice.
> 
> ...

----------


## harrybarracuda

_Aerial view of the Tienditas Bridge on the Colombia border blocked with containers ahead of an anticipated aid shipment_




> Venezuela's opposition leader Juan Guaido has warned the army of its responsibilities after soldiers blocked a key border bridge, sparking demands from the US to allow access for desperately needed humanitarian aid.
> 
> 
> Mr Guaido said in an interview on Colombian radio that the army had to choose between "a dictatorship that does not have an iota of humanity, or to side with the constitution" from which he takes his legitimacy.
> 
> US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Venezuela's military was deliberately blocking the aid with trucks and shipping containers "under Mr Maduro's orders."
> 
> "The Maduro regime must LET THE AID REACH THE STARVING PEOPLE," Mr Pompeo said in a tweet.
> 
> ...

----------


## HuangLao

The usual individuals continue on in their blind, prejudicial, and ignorant fashion regarding "real" world affairs.

Ho hum....

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The usual individuals continue on in their blind, prejudicial, and ignorant fashion regarding "real" world affairs.
> 
> Ho hum....


We prefer just to say "Jeff's spouting shit from his mum's basement in Portland again".

----------


## foobar

TD's very own Lord Haw Haw spamming the usual nonsense.

It's only a matter of time before it's announced that Maduro's soldiers are looting the hospitals for baby incubators.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> TD's very own Lord Haw Haw spamming the usual nonsense.
> 
> It's only a matter of time before it's announced that Maduro's soldiers are looting the hospitals for baby incubators.


This is the kind of inane response I'd expect when a gullible retard doesn't like the truth staring him in his puffy-cheeked, indignant face.

----------


## HuangLao

Truth, indeed.
Eurocentric apologists need not apply.

----------


## Klondyke

It's not nice that some half (15) of the EU members still have had their arm twisted enough
How long will it take them to recognize the illegitimate Venezuela govt?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Truth, indeed.
> Eurocentric apologists need not apply.


Yeah, fuck off Jeff. Basement mummy's boys need not apply.

----------


## OhOh

> a gullible retard doesn't like the truth staring him in his puffy-cheeked, indignant face.


Step away from the mirror, just for a moment 'arry. Projection can be cured without surgery nowadays. The puffy cheeks, with a better make-up regime. 

Next time you get cosy with one of your "stewi friends" don't be afraid of raising the subject.

----------


## OhOh

> mummy's boys need not apply


Only a "daddies" boy's opinion count eh?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Step away from the mirror, just for a moment 'arry. Projection can be cured without surgery nowadays. The puffy cheeks, with a better make-up regime. 
> 
> Next time you get cosy with one of your "stewi friends" don't be afraid of raising the subject.


Empathising with your idiot friends again eh HoHo?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Only a "daddies" boy's opinion count eh?


Sounds rather like a good description for a snivelling sycophant like yourself actually.

----------


## foobar

Note the Fox News interview with Trump at 4:16min, he's goes completely off message on Iraq/Libya and tells the real truth.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Note the Fox News interview with Trump at 4:16min, he's goes completely off message on Iraq/Libya and tells the real truth.


Oh FFS you're not taking that escaped mental patient seriously are you? I doubt he even knows where Venezuela is.

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## foobar

> Oh FFS you're not taking that escaped mental patient seriously are you?


So says the guy who slags off Trump at every opportunity....while at the same time deep throating Trump's foreign policy, swallowing the lot and licking his balls clean at every opportunity.

Have you heard of joined up rational thinking, continuity and logic? ...you might want to put your unhinged neurosis on a back burner and try those sometime.





> I doubt he even knows where Venezuela  is.


Thanks for confirming you didn't watch the video or you would know he lives in South America.   :Smile:

----------


## The Shining Light



----------


## Dragonfly

> So says the guy who slags off Trump at every opportunity....while at the same time deep throating Trump's foreign policy, swallowing the lot and licking his balls clean at every opportunity.
> 
> Have you heard of joined up rational thinking, continuity and logic? ...you might want to put your unhinged neurosis on a back burner and try those sometime.


oh you noticed it too, glad I am not alone, Harry is a logic coward, too scared to think for himself  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> So says the guy who slags off Trump at every opportunity....while at the same time deep throating Trump's foreign policy, swallowing the lot and licking his balls clean at every opportunity.


You are a very stupid boy, aren't you?

Baldy orange cunto isn't in charge of this, you fucking moron. He can barely tie his own shoelaces.

If you want to drone on about your queer fantasies, I notice Buttplug has arrived, he probably sniffed your gayness.

----------


## OhOh

> Aerial view of the Tienditas Bridge on the Colombia border blocked with containers ahead of an anticipated aid shipment


Care to confirm if your pictured blocked bridge has ever been open for traffic?

Some are suggesting it never has been:
*
¡No Pasarán! Fake News against Venezuela: Closed border bridge was never open. Warning about US military intervention
*_
"In fact, the Las Tienditas Bridge has never been open. Its construction  was started in 2013 to relieve the two existing border crossings in San  Antonio and Ureña, which are passed by more than 50,000 people each day in both directions. It was completed in  2016, but never opened. The only regular users were smugglers who  managed cheap gas from Venezuela to Colombia at night.  Nevertheless, NTN 24 Colombian television announced on Tuesday that  "humanitarian aid" would be transported to Venezuela via this bridge. Diosdado Cabello, President of the Constituent Assembly of  Venezuela, warned on Wednesday (local time) on his weekly television  program "Con el Mazo Dando" that this was the beginning of an irregular war. Otherwise, it would be a "show". The  opposition has announced that it wants to bring goods into the country  for 20,000 people - while the government of President Nicolás everyone Distribute six million food parcels at subsidized prices"_ _

https://www.jungewelt.de/artikel/348717.kampf-um-venezuela-no-pasar%C3%A1n.html

_*Venezuela: International Mediation Efforts Splinter as Tensions Build over Humanitarian Aid*

_"For their part, Venezuelan authorities have warned that the attempt  to bring aid across the border without government consent represented a  provocation, pointing out that the amount of aid being sent pales in  comparison to the Venezuelan assets and accounts frozen outside the country. The United Nations warned on Wednesday against using aid as a pawn in Venezuela. _ _Humanitarian aid should never be used as a political pawn, UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres said on Thursday.
_
_A picture circulated on social media and mainstream outlets on  Wednesday purported to show containers blocking the Tienditas bridge,  which connects border towns Cucuta in Colombia and Urena in Venezuela.  Several US officials reacted, with Secretary Pompeo calling on Maduro to  let aid reach starving people._

_  However, National Constituent Assembly President Diosdado Cabello  clarified in his TV program that the bridge has been closed since 2016.  At the time of writing, the Simon Bolivar and Francisco de Paula  Santander bridges continue open as normal, while reports emerged on  Thursday that aid shipments had started to arrive in Cucuta"
_
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/14307

----------


## OhOh

> Baldy orange cunto isn't in charge of this


You are suggesting that regime change has already taken place in ameristan. Whom should the world accept as the official, democratically elected,  leader of the ameristani republic. 

Or is it now the norm for all to select and endorse anybody, on a hourly/daily basis, after duly considering the previous daily twats; from the competing grifters?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _ It was completed in  2016, but never opened. The only regular users were smugglers who  managed cheap gas from Venezuela to Colombia at night._


Why don't you read what you post you dumb shit?

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You are suggesting that regime change has already taken place in ameristan. Whom should the world accept as the official, democratically elected,  leader of the ameristani republic. 
> 
> Or is it now the norm for all to select and endorse anybody, on a hourly/daily basis, after duly considering the previous daily twats; from the competing grifters?



Why do you persist with this window licking nonsense?

Like all presidents, baldy orange cunto has a team of people telling him what to say on topics about which he knows nothing.

Do you think he wrote his state of the union speech?

I would expect that someone who is used to moronically regurgitating propaganda from others would empathise with his situation.

----------


## harrybarracuda

FAES officers executed a 30-year old opposition activist.



https://elpais.com/internacional/201...65_034807.html

He's not the first.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...maduro-barrios

----------


## The Shining Light

^same production company as the White Helmets?

Looks like it.

You sell-out corporate shill cvnt.
 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^same production company as the White Helmets?
> 
> Looks like it.
> 
> You sell-out corporate shill cvnt.


Shouldn't you be watching important Youtube videos?

----------


## OhOh

A very long article based on an academic paper presented at the first international conference of the Emancipatory  Rural Politics Initiative (ERPI), held at the International Institute of  Social Studies in The Hague, March 17–18, 2018.

From 16th century Spanish Colonisation through to 2017. From extractive colonial practises to recent government attempts to satisfy food supply/distribution/accessibility, rather than the 20th century importation route,  managed by entrenched powerful families.

*The Politics of Food in Venezuela*

_"Few countries and political processes have been subject to such  scrutiny, yet so generally misunderstood, as Venezuela and the  Bolivarian Revolution.1  This is particularly true today, as the international media paints an  image of absolute devastation in the country, wrought by failed policies  and government mismanagement. At the same time, the three national  elections of 2017 demonstrated a strong show of support for the  continuation of the revolution under its current leadership. This  seeming paradox, we are told, can only be attributed to government  tendencies of co-optation and clientelism, along with a closing of  democratic space. Such messages are reproduced many times over, both in  the media and in certain intellectual circles.2

__A  benefit of the intense attention paid to Venezuela is that a recurring  narrative can be identified, which goes basically as follows. The  central character is Hugo Chávez Frías, a strong-armed political leader  who enjoyed the double advantage of personal charisma and high oil  prices over the course of his presidency from 1999 through 2012. In  2013, Chávez died, and the following year global oil prices plunged.  Amid the perfect storm of the loss of Chávez, the collapse in oil  prices, and the government’s misguided policies, Venezuela has steadily  slid into a state of economic and political disintegration, with food  and other necessities growing scarce, in turn sparking social unrest as  people take to the streets. The government, headed by Chávez’s less  charismatic successor, Nicolás Maduro, is going to desperate lengths to  hang onto power, becoming increasingly authoritarian in the process,  while maintaining the populist rhetoric of Chávez’s Bolivarian  Revolution.

_
_However, this dominant narrative does not capture the  complexities of what is happening in Venezuela today. There are  significant holes in the account, which raise important questions: who  are “the people” at the center of this analysis? What, if any, are the  different impacts of present challenges on various sectors of society?  How should the Venezuelan state be understood, and where and how does  the role of capital figure? By focusing on the politics of food as a key  area in which the country’s broader politics are playing  out—particularly by looking at recent shortages and food lines, as well  as what have been presented as “food riots”—a multitude of issues can be  better understood. Often-ignored matters of race, class, gender, and  geography demand special attention."

_Much, much, much more at:

https://monthlyreview.org/2018/06/01...-in-venezuela/

----------


## harrybarracuda

Bit out of date there. The politics of food in Venezuela nowadays is that you support the dictator and his cronies or you starve.

----------


## Latindancer

> You sell-out corporate shill cvnt.


Hi Albert !   :439:

----------


## The Shining Light

Paris burns for the 13th week in a row.

Real people, making a real stand, against a real dictator.

Make no mistake, Macron is an EU bitch, who in turn is a US bitch.

The European people are awakening quickly, and en mass. The enemy is the United States, and the people are ready to fight.

Fuck the "Great Satan" - we will die standing, and bring every last one of you cvnts down with us.

----------


## HuangLao

Another benevolent civilising mission is in order......

----------


## happynz

^^ have fun storming the castle.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Paris burns for the 13th week in a row.
> 
> Real people, making a real stand, against a real dictator.
> 
> Make no mistake, Macron is an EU bitch, who in turn is a US bitch.
> 
> The European people are awakening quickly, and en mass. The enemy is the United States, and the people are ready to fight.
> 
> Fuck the "Great Satan" - we will die standing, and bring every last one of you cvnts down with us.


He's funny ain't he.

The windbag reminds me of...

----------


## OhOh

*Italy Saves Europe’s Dignity over US Bullying of Venezuela*



_"__It’s  comically ironic. France has now recalled its ambassador from Rome in a  mounting row over Italy’s alleged “interference” in French internal  political affairs. This is at the same that France and other European  states are joining in a brazen campaign by the United States to  overthrow the elected president of Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro. Irony  doesn’t come much thicker than that.

__ The  row between France and Italy is but the latest in a long-running spat  between French President Emmanuel Macron and the newly elected coalition  government in Rome. The Italian government is an unlikely coalition  between the left-leaning Five Star Movement (5SM) and a rightwing party,  La Lega (The League).

__ Both  parties are highly critical of the EU establishment and neoliberal  capitalist polices which France’s former Rothschild  banker-turned-president Macron embodies.

__ Rome  has also slammed France for its responsibility in fomenting massive  immigration problems for Europe and Italy in particular through Paris’  criminal military interventions, along with the US and other NATO  powers, in the Middle East and North Africa.

__ Things  came to a head this week when it emerged that Italian deputy Prime  Minister Luigi Di Maio (and 5SM leader) had met with members of the  Yellow Vest protest movement in France. The Yellow Vest movement has  been holding nationwide demonstrations for the past 12 weeks protesting  against Macron’s economic policies and what they call his elitist style  of government. Di Maio and the other Italian deputy premier Matteo  Salvini (leader of The League) have been openly supporting the French  protesters, whom they identify with as part of a popular revolt across  Europe against neoliberal austerity.

__ Reacting  to reports of Italian government contact with the French protesters,  France’s Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said it was “outrageous  interference” in his country’s internal affairs. The row has further  escalated after France recalled its ambassador from Rome. The last time  that happened was in 1940 during the Second World War. This is a major  breakdown in relations between two of the EU’s founding members.

__ Here  is where the irony descends into farce. France is blustering with rage  at Italy’s alleged meddling in its sovereign affairs while at the very  same time the French government is party to an international effort led  by the US to bring about regime change in Venezuela. The hypocritical  arrogance is priceless.__ This  week France and several other EU members, including Germany, Britain,  Spain and the Netherlands, announced that they were “recognizing” a  self-proclaimed president in Venezuela. Marginal opposition figure Juan  Guaido declared himself the “interim president” of the South American  country on January 23. There are well-documented links between Guaido  and his far-right opposition party to the American CIA. The move to  delegitimize the elected president, Nicolas Maduro, has been  orchestrated by the Trump administration. It is a blatant illegal  regime-change maneuver that violates the UN Charter and international  law. Maduro’s socialist government and the nation’s natural oil wealth –  the largest known reserves on the planet – are obvious targets for  Washington and European capital.__ Russia,  China, Iran, Turkey, as well as some Latin American countries,  including Mexico, Nicaragua, Bolivia and Cuba, have rightly denounced  the interference in Venezuela’s sovereign affairs. Washington’s demand  for Maduro to step down under the threat of US military invasion is a  staggering display of imperialist aggression. But the international  gangsterism is being indulged by certain European states, primarily  France, which are bestowing a veneer of legitimacy to the whole  disgraceful business.

__ Italy  is one of the few EU states that has refused to go along with the  US-led criminal campaign for regime change in Venezuela. The Italian  government reportedly blocked the EU from issuing a joint policy  statement calling for the recognition of Guaido as “president” in place  of Maduro. Those European powers that are engaging in the Washington’s  violation of Venezuela are doing so on their own complicity, not in the  name of the EU.__ Italy’s  principled stand, along with Russia and China, in defense of  Venezuela’s sovereignty is a commendable adherence to international law.  By not allowing the EU to be associated with the US skulduggery, that  is a vital setback to Washington’s machinations.__ Thus,  the Italian government has saved the EU from descending into total  disrepute. It is bad enough that certain members like France are  engaging in the US-led gangsterism against Venezuela, but at least  Italy’s blocking action has prevented the EU as a bloc from being  complicit.__ If  the fundamental principle of non-interference in the sovereign affairs  of nation states is not respected, then the entire system of  international law unravels. The principle has been violated many times  in recent years, most notably with illegal wars conducted by the US and  its NATO partners in the Middle East and North Africa. But the latest  episode of regime change in Venezuela is perhaps the most audacious yet.  Washington and its European lackeys are intent on abolishing the  democratic mandate of President Maduro and the ruling of Venezuela’s  Supreme Court.

__ Washington  and its pathetic European accomplices are opening a Pandora Box of  global lawlessness if they get away with their criminal bullying of  Venezuela.__ Russia, China, Italy and other nations are essentially holding the line between a semblance of order and unfettered chaos.
_
_ We  may consider the Italian deputy premier’s contact with French  protesters as ill-advised politics. But whatever mistake Italy may have  done in that regard, it is negligible compared with the astounding  arrogance and criminality of France and other European states in their  violation of Venezuela’s sovereignty. The arrogance of France’s reaction  to Italy’s alleged interference this week is a spectacle to behold.__ If  anything, Italy deserves applause and respect for exposing the  hypocrisy of France and other European would-be Neo-colonialists.__ A  bitter aspect of the irony is this: the French president and others are  contemptuous of democracy and international law, not just in Venezuela,  but towards their very own people."

https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...venezuela.html
_

----------


## harrybarracuda

Half of Italy's coalition are populist far right groups like 5Star, that are bigger Putin brown-nosers than you are.

The mere fact that they're in France stirring things up demonstrates more than anything that they will do whatever Putin tells them to.




> ...on February 1, the Russian official news network RT’s Sputnik website carried an interview with 5 Star Member of Parliament Manlio Di Stefano. He stressed the importance of Italy-Russia cooperation, criticized alleged NATO expansionism, called for greater Italian autonomy in foreign policy, and argued that sanctions against Russia should be eliminated.


More snivelling Putin sycophants. No wonder you're all excited about them.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Clever old Vlad. He can skim his loans payments off the top before he gives what's left to _Chavismo_.

 :Smile: 




> Venezuela's state-run oil company PDVSA is telling customers of its joint ventures to deposit oil sales proceeds in an account recently opened at Russia's Gazprombank AO, according to sources and an internal document seen by Reuters on Saturday.
> 
> PDVSA's move comes after the United States imposed tough, new financial sanctions on Jan. 28 aimed at blocking Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro's access to the country's oil revenue.
> 
> Supporters of Venezuelan opposition leader and self-proclaimed interim president Juan Guaido said recently that a fund would be established to accept proceeds from sales of Venezuelan oil.
> 
> The United States and dozens of other countries have recognized Guaido as the nation's legitimate head of state. Maduro has denounced Guaido as a U.S. puppet seeking to foment a coup.
> 
> Russia's Gazprombank said on Sunday that PDVSA opened accounts with the bank several years ago and has not opened any accounts recently.
> ...

----------


## sabang

Given the utterly unsavory track record and human rights catastrophe of American foreign 'interventions' over the last half century I believe, beyond a bit of verbal diarrhea, the US should stay well out of Venezuela. For better or worse, the Chavista government still has the loyalty of most of the population, and the security forces. Most of the international community, too. The self proclaimed new 'President' is a nobody, who was soundly beaten in democratic elections in one of Venezuela's smaller provinces. I'm quite confident the Chav's would win national elections again, and equally confident the US would cry foul, again.

But, but Oil.  :yerman:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Given the utterly unsavory track record and human rights catastrophe of American foreign 'interventions' over the last half century I believe, beyond a bit of verbal diarrhea, the US should stay well out of Venezuela. For better or worse, the Chavista government still has the loyalty of most of the population, and the security forces. Most of the international community, too. The self proclaimed new 'President' is a nobody, who was soundly beaten in democratic elections in one of Venezuela's smaller provinces. I'm quite confident the Chav's would win national elections again, and equally confident the US would cry foul, again.
> 
> But, but Oil.


Completely ignorant of the facts as usual.




> the Chavista government still has the loyalty of most of the population


No it doesn't you moron, they are starving and fleeing the country by the thousands.




> and the security forces.


Only the Generals, who _Chavismo_ put in key positions where they can rob the country and the people blind. Don't confuse that with popular support among the troops.




> Most of the international community, too.


Wrong again.







> the US should stay well out of Venezuela


On that I can only agree. My worry is that someone will show baldy orange cunto "Wag the Dog" and give the orange turd ideas...

----------


## sabang

You might be surprised how many of those fleeing Venezuela are Colombians, who originally fled their home country because of the widespread repression and violence there.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You might be surprised how many of those fleeing Venezuela are Colombians, who originally fled their home country because of the widespread repression and violence there.


Oh purlease....

----------


## sabang

GIYF.

----------


## harrybarracuda

I'm sorry I don't do teenage SMS speak. WTF is that?

----------


## foobar

Google it yourself fuckwit!

The 'F' threw me until I seen who was being replied to.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Google it yourself fuckwit!
> 
> The 'F' threw me until I seen who was being replied to.


I'll just leave you two schoolkids to whinge at each other on Line or whatever shit it is on which you mumble incoherent rubbish.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Should probably be entitled "_Chavismo_ lackey announces desperate witch hunt".




> Venezuela's Comptroller General Elvis Amoroso on Monday announced an asset audit on the accounts of opposition leader and self-proclaimed "interim president" Juan Guaido.
> 
> Amoroso alleged Guaido has "received money from international entities without any type of justification." 
> 
> The chief national auditor also accused the member of the legislature of hiding or falsifying "data contained in his sworn asset statement."
> 
> The comptroller general said that according to the country's constitution, members of the National Assembly cannot "receive any type of payment from other public or private job," and they "cannot be owners, administrators or directors of companies that contract with legal entities."
> 
> The investigation against Guaido is partly based on anti-corruption law, Amoroso added.
> ...

----------


## harrybarracuda

Heard an interesting piece this morning that made a sensible observation:

China would be happy for _Chavismo_ and his cronies to leave and a more competent government to be installed, because it would restore the flow of oil and improve the chances of China getting its $60 billions worth back. That's why they have not been vehemently opposed to American moves against _Chavismo_.

Russia on the other hand benefits from Venezuelan oil production being in the shitter. If Venezuela were to return to full production (3m barrels a day), that would dent the oil price taking a big chunk out of Russian oil revenues.

Certainly explains the very differing statements coming from each country.

----------


## Hugh Cow

Dont believe this it's a CIA financed BBC program to steal Venezuelan oil.

----------


## harrybarracuda

They want _Chavismo_ gone.

----------


## SKkin

US Congresswoman Ms. Omar vs Special Envoy to Venezuela Elliot Abrams

"That was not a question." "Thank you for your participation."

 :smiley laughing: 







Bravo to Ms. Omar who has bigger balls than 99.9% of our US Congressmen and male Senators.  :Beerchug: 

Why is it that so many of these high profile US "Semites" act so arrogant, smug and entitled...like the rule of law doesn't apply to the 13th tribe? That's rhetorical btw.

Anyone have any further questions on the roots of 20th/21st century "American Exceptionalism?"


"Gangster" Maduro on the US:




> "They are warmongering in order to take over Venezuela," he said.


Venezuela crisis: Maduro condemns 'extremist' Trump
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47209526

Full Transcript of BBC interview:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47211509

----------


## harrybarracuda

I think _Chavismo_ means "They are trying to get me - a corrupt, inept, fat wanker who has destroyed the lives of my countrymen - out of power".

----------


## OhOh

> Bravo to Ms. Omar who has bigger balls than 99.9% of our US Congressmen and male Senators.


I second your praise for her, a female, Muslim, a democratically elected, government representative of the ameristani people.  

Firstly for the introduction to the public platform, of the ameristani government's chosen responsible person's proven dubious history. 

Secondly for her highlighting that the requirement to uphold international/ameristani agreements, are paramount in deciding what actions the ameristani government and it's vassals utilise, in solving their self induced civilian, financial and military illegal actions against a foreign country and it's citizens.

----------


## OhOh

*How Much of Venezuela’s Crisis is Really Maduro’s Fault?*


_"The  recognition by U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and former Vice  President Joe Biden of Juan Guaidó as Venezuelan_ _president is the latest demonstration  of the consensus in Washington over the nefariousness of the Nicolás  Maduro government. Not since Fidel Castro’s early years in power has a  Latin American head of state been so consistently demonized. But the  1960s was the peak of the Cold War polarization that placed Cuba plainly  in the enemy camp, and unlike Venezuela today, that nation had a  one-party system. 

__The  scope of that consensus was evident by the recent faceoff between two  figures as far apart as President Donald Trump and Rep. Alexandria  Ocasio-Cortez. In his State of the Union address, Trump attributed  Venezuela’s economic crisis to the failed system of socialism.  Ocasio-Cortez responded by arguing that the Venezuelan case is “an issue  of authoritarian regime versus democracy__.”_


President Nicolás Maduro, 2016. (Cancillería del Ecuador via Flickr)

_Taken  together, the comments by Trump and Ocasio-Cortez complement one  another. According to the narrative that dominates Washington, Venezuela  is a disaster from both economic and political viewpoints. The  exclusive blame for the sorry state of the economy and for the country’s  allegedly authoritarian rule lays with Maduro and his cohorts.

__Not  surprisingly, the mainstream media have refrained from questioning  these assumptions. Most of their reporting puts the accent mark on state  incompetence and corruption, while skirting the detrimental effects of  the economic sanctions implemented by the Trump administration.
_
_In  addition, many on the left point to the economic sanctions as  responsible, at least in part, for the nation’s pressing economic  difficulties, but few critically examine the mainstream’s  characterization of the state of Venezuelan democracy. Some oppose the  sanctions but join the opposition in bashing the Maduro government. 
_
_A recent article by Gabriel Hetland, for instance, posted by Jacobin and NACLA: Report on the Americas claims  that Maduro “holds onto power through authoritarian means.” The author  then turns to the nation’s economic difficulties by arguing that “the  primary driver is the government’s mismanagement of its oil revenue” and corruption.
_
_During  my participation in a two-month Venezuelan solidarity tour late last  year in the U.S. and Canada, I often heard the statement that knowing  the specifics about Venezuela’s economic and political problems is not  essential because the bottom line is the illegality of Trump’s sanctions  and threats of military intervention. But does international law end  the discussion? 
_
_If  it could be proven that Maduro is a dictator and a totally incompetent  ruler, would people enthusiastically rally behind his government in  opposition to foreign intervention? I don’t think so. Undoubtedly, it is  necessary to take a close look at both political and economic fronts  because the effectiveness of solidarity efforts hinges on the specifics.  The dominant narrative about Maduro and its assumptions cannot be taken  at face value, even while there are elements of truth in it.
_
_How Far Back Do the Economic Problems Go? 
_
_The  Venezuelan opposition frequently argues that neither the sanctions nor  depressed international oil prices are to blame for the nation’s  economic difficulties, only the mismanagement of the economy. At best,  declining oil prices contributed to the problems but was not a root  cause. Some opposition analysts deny or minimize the importance of oil  prices as a factor by pointing out that the economies of other OPEC  nations are as dependent on oil exports as that of Venezuela but have not plummeted to the same levels.
_
_The  opposition’s central argument here is that Venezuela’s dire economic  problems predate Trump’s implementation of sanctions and even predate  the sharp decline in international oil prices beginning mid-2014. That  is, government follies with disastrous effects came first, followed by  the decline in oil prices and then the sanctions. Two-time presidential  candidate for the opposition Henrique Capriles claimed that the crisis  began prior to the fall of oil prices but for a long time was “ignored, repressed and covered up” by the government.

_
_

__Petare, Caracas, 2014. (The Photographer via Wikimedia)

__There  are two fallacies in this line of thinking. In the first place, the  so-called economic war against Venezuela, which eventually included the  Trump-imposed sanctions, preceded everything else. Washington almost  from the beginning of Hugo Chávez’s presidency in 1999 did not stand by  idly while he defied the neoliberal Washington consensus as well as U.S.  hegemony. Washington’s hostility seriously harmed the economy in  multiple ways.

__For  instance, the George W. Bush administration banned the sale of spare  parts for the Venezuelan Air Force’s costly F-16 fighter jets in 2006,  forcing the country to turn to Russia for the purchase of 24 Sukhoi  SU-30 fighter planes. Furthermore, the international sanctions did not  begin with Trump, but rather Obama in 2015 which were justified by his  executive order calling Venezuela a threat to U.S. national security.  That order was followed by an avalanche of pull-outs from Venezuela by  multinationals including Ford, Kimberly Clark, General Motors, Kellogg’s  and nearly all the international airlines.

__In  the second place, oil prices under Maduro have not only been low since  2014 but nosedived, just the opposite of what happened under Chávez.  This is particularly problematic because high prices create expectations  and commitments that then get transformed into frustration and anger  when they precipitously drop. Prices are currently slightly over half of  what they were before the decline, in spite of their modest recovery  since 2017.

__Three  factors explain Venezuela’s economic woes, not one: low oil prices, the  “economic war” against Venezuela, and mistaken policies. Prominent in  the latter category is Maduro’s lethargic response to the problem of the  widening disparity between official prices set by the government on  certain items in short supply and their prices on the black market. The  government has encountered major problems in distributing basic  commodities forcing Venezuelans to buy those same goods on the  higher-priced black market. The system is conducive to corruption and  contraband as many of the products that are supposed to be retailed at  reduced prices end up being sold on the black market or sent off to  neighboring Colombia.
_
_The Dictatorship Label Repeated a Thousand Times
_
_The  media are in desperate need of good fact-checkers in their reporting on  Venezuela. Statements about Venezuelan democracy range from blatantly  misleading to accurate with most lying between the two extremes. An  example of the former is the Guardian’s claim that the Venezuelan government “controls most TV and radio stations which transmit a constant stream of pro-Maduro propaganda.”  In fact, of those who tune into Venezuelan TV channels, 80 percent  watch the three major private channels (Venevisión, Televén, and  Globovisión) which cannot be seriously accused of being  pro-government.  
_
_At the other extreme is Hetland’s assertion in his Jacobin-NACLA piece  that the decision to strip Henrique Capriles of his right to run for  office as a result of corruption charges was politically motivated. The  statement is accurate. Actually, the move was worse than what Hetland  discusses. For some time before that, Capriles, whose political  positions have vacillated considerably, favored a less intransigent  stance toward the government than those on the radical right, which has  largely dominated the opposition of late. The move, in effect, played  into the hands of the radicals and undermined efforts to bring about a  much-needed national dialogue.

_
_Those  who call Maduro a dictator make two basic assertions. In the first  place, the government is alleged to have brutally repressed the  four-month long peaceful demonstrations designed to bring about regime  change carried out in 2014 and then 2017. In fact, the protests were  hardly peaceful. Six National Guardsmen and two policemen were killed in  2014 and protestors fired into an air force base in Caracas and  attacked a number of police stations in Táchira in 2017. There are different versions  of the circumstances surrounding the numerous fatalities in 2014 and  2017, thus requiring an impartial analysis, which the media has hardly  attempted to present. Police repression is reprehensible – and  repression there was on both occasions – regardless of circumstances,  but the context has to be brought into the picture.

__

__Smoke and fires, Caracas, 2014. (Prensa Presidencial, Govt. of Venezuela via Wikimedia)

__In  the second place, the opposition denies that Maduro’s re-election in  May of last year was legitimate because the election was called for by  the National Constituent Assembly (ANC), whose existence allegedly has  no legal basis. One of the nation’s foremost constitutional lawyers,  Hermánn Escarrá, has defended the ANC’s legality,  while others formulate plausible arguments to the contrary. Again, the  mainstream media has failed to present both sides or to objectively  analyze the issue. Nearly all the opposition parties that refused to  participate in the presidential elections in 2018, however, did  participate in the gubernatorial elections of the preceding year that  were convened by the same ANC. The justification for Juan Guaidó’s  self-proclamation as Venezuelan president on Jan. 23 was predicated on  the illegitimacy of the ANC.
_
_Violation  of democratic norms and cases of police repression do not in themselves  demonstrate that a government is authoritarian or dictatorial. If they  did, the United States would hardly be considered democratic. The real  defining issue is whether electoral fraud takes place in which votes are  not correctly counted. That accusation has been largely absent in the  controversy over recent elections, even along leaders of the radical  opposition.
_
_The mainstream media and Washington politicians freely call Maduro an “autocrat”  a “dictator” and “authoritarian.” More than anything that is said about  Venezuela’s economic difficulties, the use of these terms has had a  profound effect on policy making. A nation’s economic problems should  not justify intervention of any sort. The real issue of contention,  therefore, is the state of Venezuelan democracy as depicted by the  dominant narrative. Amazingly enough, there is no major actor in  mainstream politics and the mainstream media willing to challenge that  narrative with all its questionable claims regarding the Maduro  government."

https://consortiumnews.com/2019/02/1...maduros-fault/

_

----------


## foobar

Go Ms Omar ...Fuck America!

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *How Much of Venezuela’s Crisis is Really Maduro’s Fault?*_
> 
> _


A: All that bits that weren't Chavez'.

Fucking hell, did you really need that answering?




> The mainstream media and Washington politicians freely call Maduro an “autocrat” a “dictator” and “authoritarian.”


That's because he is. Since you're too thick, let's have a quick run through of how he's grabbed power.

- Put 13 cronies on the Supreme Court.
- Filled the Election Commission with cronies
- Created a whole new legislative body under false pretences and fills it with cronies.
- Took all powers away from the ELECTED legislative body and gave it to said cronies.

I just love how you dickheads splutter to try and justify these obviously dictatorial actions, and all because you're chinky and russian sycophants and you'll write anything to support them.

But you're fucking shit at it, because all you do is try and ignore facts, or post the most ridiculous opinion pieces that call gutting an elected body, stealing its powers and stealing the judicial arm of government by the fluffy name of "violation of democratic norms". You even have the gall to call politicial assassinations "police repression" and try and compare that with racist American cops shooting black men.

You're a fucking joke.

 :rofl:

----------


## SKkin

^^Go Ms. Omar...Fuck Elliot Abrams atnd his fellow travelers.

Sick of his ilk claiming to act in "We the people's" interests.


^Oh look Lord Hee Haw is on the case...lets say Harry that all your bluster is correct. What gives the US the standing to step in and interfere in Venezuela's situation given our past record of fucking things up in many similar cases?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> What gives the US the standing to step in and interfere in Venezuela's situation given our past record of fucking things up in many similar cases?


People are starving to death you fucking moron.

And they were doing it before the US turned the screw, so don't start that old bollocks.

Chavismo has fucked the whole place up. He's fucked up manufacturing, he's fucked up farming, and he's fucked up oil.

And when people started suggesting he fuck off like he should have, he fucked up the government too.

----------


## foobar

^The usual strawman reply from Lord Haw Haw...

----------


## SKkin

^^ Harry if we're so great at fixing fuckups maybe we should start here at home. Is Venezuela 23 trillion $$ in debt yet?

 ::chitown:: 


Elliot Abrams is the face showing our concern for the Venezuelan people. Now there's the fucking joke.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^The usual strawman reply from Lord Haw Haw...


Another vacuous post from the forum fucking idiot.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^^ Harry if we're so great at fixing fuckups maybe we should start here at home. Is Venezuela 23 trillion $$ in debt yet?


Just so it's clear, I don't support a military incursion into Venezuela and I don't expect one either.

The only way this gets sorted is if the military get persuaded to back another horse and are told they can keep all their winnings. In that event, I suspect they'd have _Chavismo_ on a plane to Cuba in no time, or perhaps even buried in a shallow grave somwhere so he can't grass them up.

----------


## foobar

> People are starving to death you fucking moron.


^Lord Haw Haw really sounds like he cares about starving people....right?

...yet, only two pages ago...



> Originally Posted by foobar
> 
> 
> So a  dictatorship without a shred of democracy, dismembering a journalist  with a bone saw, routine torture, oppressing women, mass murder in Yemen  etc etc ...all ok in your book as long as their finances are in order? 
> _
> An estimated 85,000 children under the age of five have starved to death over the last three years  as a result of Yemens civil war, a report from Save the Children has  found, as the charity urged an immediate ceasefire to prevent more loss  of life.
> 
> The figure is a conservative estimate based on UN data on severe acute malnutrition, which the international body says has afflicted more than 1.3 million children  since the conflict between Houthi rebels and the Saudi-led coalition  that seeks to restore Yemens exiled government began in 2015._
> 
> ...

----------


## foobar

Lord Haw Haw will have you believe the US( one of the most powerful countries in the world, but unashamedly refuses to provide free health care to it's own citizens) really gives a shit about people in Venezuela...

Here is the real reason for US interest(read: regime change of a democratic country):

The proven oil reserves in Venezuela are recognized as the largest in the world...


---------------


It's too far fetched right? ..I mean after Iraq/Libya etc they couldn't possibly be pulling the same stunt again?

Lets see what the POTUS has to say about this subject?





Assuming you have a functioning brain which has just been blown by what was said about Venezuelan oil by the POTUS .....rewind the video and watch all the way from the start.

----------


## OhOh

> The only way this gets sorted is if the military get persuaded to back another horse and are told they can keep all their winnings.


That doesn't sound very democratic. 

The locals recently held an election and the current crew were elected. Some say the elections were spotless. 

Or are you now suggesting that if the enlightened ones don't succeed in forcing election after election, until their man wins, the only solution is an illegal foreign created military coup?

----------


## The Shining Light

Venezuelans who come to sign a petition against American meddling/invasion, give their opinion.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^Lord Haw Haw really sounds like he cares about starving people....right?
> 
> ...yet, only two pages ago...


Off he goes about Yemen, too fucking dumb to even understand the part his beloved Iran plays in it.

You really are playing the forum fuckwit.

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That doesn't sound very democratic. 
> 
> The locals recently held an election and the current crew were elected. Some say the elections were spotless. 
> 
> Or are you now suggesting that if the enlightened ones don't succeed in forcing election after election, until their man wins, the only solution is an illegal foreign created military coup?


What is this "are you now suggesting" bollocks, you idiot. I don't suggest shit. I'm stating as a fact that the only thing keeping _Chavismo_ in power is the fact that he's bribed the military with lucrative key positions in the government and in PDVSA, so they are supporting him.




> Some say the elections were spotless.


Yes. Wankers like you.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Venezuelans who come to sign a petition against American meddling/invasion, give their opinion.


I'm fairly certain that people who are benefiting from Chavismo's largesse are totally opposed to *any* intervention.

 ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

> What is this "are you now suggesting" bollocks, you idiot. I don't suggest shit.





> The only way this gets sorted is if the military *get persuaded* to back *another horse* and are told they can keep all their winnings


You "suggested" the above was a solution. My interpretation of your "suggestion is a "somebody", ameristan, it's local figurehead,  it's vassals, are the public/visible entities pushing to arrange your acceptable military coup.

From the video I would suggest the citizens desire the acceptance of the last election, which was won by the current president.

What is your other interpretation of you military coup you are in favour of?

----------


## OhOh

> the part his beloved Iran plays in it.


It would be useful if you actually posted your opinion, backed with facts and sources, rather than this unsubstantiated straw man.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> It would be useful if you actually posted your opinion, backed with facts and sources, rather than this unsubstantiated straw man.


It would be useful if you'd actually remember the threads on this forum rather than playing the dumb c u n t going "Post it again! Post it again!".

You predictable, dull fucker.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You "suggested" the above was a solution. My interpretation of your "suggestion is a "somebody", ameristan, it's local figurehead,  it's vassals, are the public/visible entities pushing to arrange your acceptable military coup.
> 
> From the video I would suggest the citizens desire the acceptance of the last election, which was won by the current president.
> 
> What is your other interpretation of you military coup you are in favour of?



Oh FFS why does one have to keep repeating stuff to you? Are you actually that fucking stupid or deliberately obtuse?

If the military stop supporting _Chavismo_, and Guiado is given the Presidency, he can

- Remove _Chavismo_'s cronies from the Supreme Court
- Abolish _Chavismo_'s crony-laden "Constituent Assembly" and restore constitutional powers to the freely elected National Assembly.
- Remove _Chavismo_'s cronies from the Election Commission
- Hold FREE and FAIR elections, supervised by independent observers (including those from your beloved Chinastan and Putinstan)

All of Guiado's backers are calling for immediate, free and fair elections, and they cannot be held until the first three steps are taken.

Is that clear enough for you, dumbass?

Or do you think I am "suggesting" something?

----------


## OhOh

> It would be useful if you'd actually remember the threads on this forum


Unfortunately just because a poster here types something or links to a web site, doesn't automatically make their assertions facts.  





> If the military stop supporting


One non active General out of 1,000s does not make your assertion that "the military" is in any way behind or desirous of  taking the coup route you blithely presume to be the correct next move. 




> - Remove Chavismo's cronies from the Supreme Court
> - Abolish Chavismo's crony-laden "Constituent Assembly" and restore constitutional powers to the freely elected National Assembly.
> - Remove Chavismo's cronies from the Election Commission


Very democratic steps. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> - Hold FREE and FAIR elections, supervised  by independent observers (including those from your beloved Chinastan  and Putinstan)


Already done. A clear winner, the current President.




> Is that clear enough for you, dumbass?


It appears that you are of the ilk that if a country holds an election and your choice doesn't win, your answer is to demand another, and another, and another ......... until your choice does. Strange understanding of "democracy", but not unexpected from you. 

An only child, by chance?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Unfortunately just because a poster here types something or links to a web site, doesn't automatically make their assertions


We know that from your repetitive posting of Chinky and Russian propaganda.




> Already done. A clear winner, the current President.


The sort of bullshit you gulp down.

Unfortunately his desperate actions stealing powers from the National Assembly and loading the Supreme Court with his chums is very reminiscent of what Putin does.

Which is why you so gullibly swallow it as you continue your campaign of arselicking dictators.

----------


## Klondyke

> If the military stop supporting Chavismo, and Guiado is given the Presidency, he can
> 
> - Remove Chavismo's cronies from the Supreme Court
> - Abolish Chavismo's crony-laden "Constituent Assembly" and restore constitutional powers to the freely elected National Assembly.
> - Remove Chavismo's cronies from the Election Commission
> - Hold FREE and FAIR elections, supervised by independent observers


And then at last, all Venezuela will sabai sabai.  
After all it has worked in Afgh., Iraq, Libya, hasn't it?

----------


## OhOh

> We know that from your repetitive posting of Chinky and Russian propaganda.


Here is today's Reuter propaganda piece:

*U.S. Senator Rubio warns Venezuela's Maduro not to act against opposition*

"CUCUTA, Colombia (Reuters) - U.S. Senator Marco Rubio, visiting the  Colombia-Venezuela border on Sunday, warned Venezuelan President Nicolas  Maduro of severe consequences if he takes action against the countrys  opposition leader and self-declared president or U.S. citizens. 

In a televised interview, Rubio declined to say if he would support  U.S. military action against Venezuela, which is mired in a political  and economic crisis.  


But the Republican senator said  he was confident that U.S. President Donald Trumps administration would  not stand by if the Venezuelan government harmed or imprisoned  opposition leader Juan Guaido, who declared himself interim president  last month.  


There are certain lines and Maduro knows what they are, Rubio, a  senator from Florida seen as an influential voice on Venezuela policy in  Washington, told CNN. The consequences will be severe and they will be  swift. 

Rubio also warned Maduro against harming U.S.  personnel working in the country and said the United States would also  respond if aide workers were targeted. 


The senator was part of a  U.S. delegation visiting the Colombian border city of Cucuta, where  humanitarian aid is being stockpiled for planned delivery to Venezuela. 


While Maduro is refusing to allow in the food, medicine and other  supplies, Guaido has vowed to move hundreds of tonnes of the aid into  the country on Saturday. 


Guaido has said he will announce details  on Monday of how he plans to get the aid into the country from  Colombia, Brazil and Curacao, despite Maduros opposition. 


The Feb. 23 deadline sets the stage for a showdown with Maduro, who  calls the aid a U.S.-orchestrated show and denies any crisis despite  many Venezuelans scant access to food and medicine. It is unclear  whether the military will allow aid to cross the border. 


Most  Western countries and many of Venezuelas neighbors have recognized  Guaido as the legitimate head of state after Maduro won a second term in  an election last year that critics denounced as a sham. Maduro retains  the backing of Russia and China and control of Venezuelan state  institutions including the military. 


The U.S. delegation included  Carlos Trujillo, the U.S. ambassador to the Organization of American  States, and Republican U.S. Representative Mario Diaz-Balart of Florida.  

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-aid-rubio/u-s-senator-rubio-warns-venezuelas-maduro-not-to-act-against-opposition-idUSKCN1Q60PY


Weasel words, lies and foreign threats highlighted:


takes action against the countrys  opposition leader 

Who is planning to "take action"? The legitimate government or the ameristani and it's vassals in country butchers?

 U.S. military action against Venezuela,

The pretenders supporters illegal foreign military invasions?

 harmed or imprisoned  opposition leader Juan Guaido

Harmed by the legitimate government or the ameristani and it's vassals in country butchers?Some countries have previous.

be severe and they will be  swift

War mongers, as usual.The only thing they use is the brutal fist.

harming U.S. " personnel"

if "aide workers" were targeted. 

Is this the ameristanis holed up in their Embassy or "personnel and aid workers" illegally crossing a countries borders? 

One  wonders what "harm" ameristani armed forces, military and police, handed out to the fellow americans trying to enter ameristani soil from  Mexico some weeks ago. Lethal force, tear gas, attack dogs, razor wire,  an invisible wall, mine fields, armed attack drones, bombers at 10,000,  CBGs, missile toting submarines, ameristani space forces .....

All seem acceptable to unexceptional countries but not the  democratically elected government elsewhere.

Guaido has vowed to move hundreds of tonnes of the aid

Is  that before or after the government has impounded and searched the  "aid" to ensure no illegal drugs, weapons, bombs, chemical weapons or  their pre-cursors are hidden in the aid or on any vehicles.

Or is the usurper relying on and to be  aided  and abetted by illegal foreign border crossers, backed by foreign armed  forces. How accommodating in a situation no other country would allow.

Most  Western countries 

I  suppose it depends on the definition of western, from the western  ameristan coast to the Bosphorus Straits? Unfortunately most countries  outside of that definition and it's populations make up the majority of  the UN listed countries and certainly population wise.

that critics denounced as a sham.

Of  course the "critics denounced" the democratically held elections run in  according to the countries constitution. However the "supporters" and  the countries voting population have accepted that the election was  fair, honest, well organised and that the results are to stand.

But standard, acceptable"western" MSM which one must take as facts. 

 ::chitown::

----------


## reddog

Afp are reporting today that Juan Guaido is asking thousands of Venezuealans to volunteer to carry  US aid into the country.
Fearless leader Maduro dismissed the aid as crumbs and rotten and contaminated food and claimed he bought 846 tonnes of medicines and medical supplies
from his old bestie pals,Cuba-China-Russia and he paid for it with own  money because we're beggars to no one, more like it beggers belief.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Afp are reporting today that Juan Guaido is asking thousands of Venezuealans to volunteer to carry  US aid into the country.<br>
> Fearless leader Maduro dismissed the aid as crumbs and rotten and contaminated food and claimed he bought 846 tonnes of medicines and medical supplies<br>
> from his old bestie pals,Cuba-China-Russia and he paid for it with own  money because we're beggars to no one, more like it beggers belief.


That's essentially an admission that's he's run medical care into the ground, which most Venezuelans knew anyway on account of a lot of them dying.

It also means Cuba are getting more Venezuelan oil.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Venezuela’s government says there is no humanitarian crisis in the country. But the stories of worried families navigating its crumbling health system suggest otherwise.


Journalist Susan Schulman went to Venezuela to report on the humanitarian impacts of an economic collapse that has seen more than 1.6 million people flee the country in the last three years – roughly five percent of its total population.

Her images, taken at a hospital and a clinic in the eastern city of Cumana, show a debilitated health system: shortages or a complete dearth of antibiotics and other medicine, run-down equipment, dirty facilities, and often no running water.

Amid the shortages, tiny medical organisations are taking on the responsibilities of the state. Fundación Jesed is one of them. Vanessa Ramos and her husband run the charity out of their living room in Cumana. Desperate patients, their families, and even medical staff turn to these micro-NGOs – there are dozens of them around the country – to source and supply the medication missing from Venezuela’s hospitals.

Schulman accompanied Ramos as she visited clients at Hospital Universitario Antonia Patricio Alcalá in the city centre. Ramos is a life-line for many here. Walking discreetly through derelict hallways, she delivers supplies to a handful of families waiting with bedridden patients.

“People are worried because they don’t have resources to buy medicine and they can’t get it,” Ramos says. “They look to me for a way to help them get hold of these medicines”.

A family frets over their two-year-old child, whose pneumonia can’t be treated because the hospital has run out of the right medicine – as well as bandages and gauze. Another family waits for emphysema drugs that no one can find. One father is just grateful for a bottle of water: the hospital has no running water.

Ramos says she feels the weight of the families who depend on her.

“Most of the cases,” she says, “are life and death”.
*A gift from the dying*
Vanessa Ramos runs Fundación Jesed out of her apartment. She’s not a doctor: she works a full-time administrative job in the city. She started her charity last year after seeing how a close friend struggled to find leukemia medication for a dying child.

Most of the medication donated to her foundation is sourced and shipped from contacts abroad. Sometimes, she’s able to find drugs inside Venezuela – medicine leftover after patients have died. She keeps the donated drugs in a small cupboard in her living room.
*Flies and filth*
Vanessa enters the hospital discreetly, careful to avoid the attention of armed security guards. Her foundation is registered as a charity, but she’s still wary of upsetting authorities. Venezuela has continually rejected international aid and denies there’s a humanitarian crisis in the country.

“I go in without making a fuss,” she says.

Flies and filth are everywhere in the hospital’s hallways. The electricity is out; generators supply limited power to high-priority departments. Patients line corridors on stretchers; intravenous tubes hang from the frames of missing ceiling panels. Floors are bloodstained. Piles of rubbish swarm with bugs.
*What malnutrition looks like*

Barbara Sanchez, 11, is on the hospital’s children’s ward. She suffers from severe malnutrition, pneumonia, and a low hemoglobin count. Her father, 61-year-old retiree Jose Sanchez, waits by her bedside. Ramos gives the father a small box of medication meant to ease the child’s breathing.
*A missing diagnosis*

Nine-month-old Oranel Enriquez sits in his mother's arms in the children's ward. His mother is distraught. Oranel has a high fever and has been having convulsions. Doctors fear it could be meningitis but they don’t have the supplies to do a test that would confirm it. Ramos brings the mother antibiotics and anticonvulsants, used to treat seizures.
*In lieu of drugs, sweet rolls*

Over the last year, Ramos says the number of people coming to her for help has soared as medicine grows scarce across the country. Ramos visits the hospital’s cancer ward even though she has no drugs to offer. Instead, she brings sweet rolls and small jars of pureed food.

Ramos recalls trying to help her friend’s two-year-old child, who had leukemia.
“The medicine was extremely expensive and we couldn't get it in Venezuela,” she says. “When we finally got the medicine, the girl was really ill and she passed away.”
*“We don’t have the money”*

Vanessa visits the waiting room for relatives of patients in intensive care.

Five women are in the room. One of them, Noreiva Hijosa, 56, is distraught. Healthcare is meant to be free in Venezuela, but the doctors have asked her to find a scarce antibiotic for her 34-year-old son, Hilbert.

“He has emphysema and needs to take medicine every day,” she says. “But I can’t find it and now he has an infection. We don’t have the money and the medicine doesn’t exist here”.

Hijosa says her son developed emphysema from his work as a fireman. His colleagues turned to social media to look for the medicine; they found it once, she says, but she couldn’t afford to pay for it.

“He was saving lives and now, look,” she says.
*Grateful for water*

One-year-old Deiker Marcano lies on a cot while his father, Adonis, 25, looks on. Deiker has gastroenteritis and internal bleeding, and a makeshift oxygen mask covers his head.

Adonis is worried for his son’s health. “We don’t have any money to buy antibiotics or medicine,” he says. “Or water”.
He has become grateful for small kindnesses.

“A woman gave us water as a gift,” he says. “There’s none here.”

On this visit to the hospital, Ramos sees five of her patients. But another five people ask her to find medicine for them.
“In the beginning I became depressed because I had cases where there was no medicine, the parents were worried seeing the children suffer, and I didn’t have the resources to help them,” Ramos says. “But now I am dealing with it, because I suppose I have to be someone who motivates others, to give them hope that we are going to find the medicine”.
*“A sense of impotence”*

The situation has exasperated medical staff working in Venezuela’s neglected health centres. In a small clinic in another part of Cumana, Dr Rafael Piroza says he has no supplies – not even running water.

The few drugs he is able to find don’t come from the government, but from the tiny medical charities like Fundación Jesed.

In protest of the health conditions now facing the country, staff at the clinic have papered the fence outside the building with signs declaring what’s missing: “No hay antibióticos”; “no hay tratamiento para infectados”; “no hay oxigeno”. The lengthy list written in block letters covers a five-metre section of a chain-link fence. 

“There is a frustration and a sense of impotence,” Piroza says. “We are formed to give and fight for life, and that we can’t do that makes us feel like accomplices”.

https://www.irinnews.org/photo-featu...eted-hospitals

----------


## foobar

^The ol _Babies in Incubators_ gag...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^The ol _Babies in Incubators_ gag...



Passable impression of subhuman scum there. Well done.

----------


## Klondyke

> U.S. Senator Rubio warns Venezuela's Maduro not to act against o​pposition


Will surely ask also in Haiti, Paris, Spain... 
(I know, perhaps later, one-by-one)

----------


## foobar

*Senators may investigate 'coup' to remove Donald Trump from office                      *

----------


## SKkin

> ^The ol Babies in Incubators gag...


Looks like it's about time for Pompeo or Bolton to do their impression of Colin Powell.

----------


## OhOh

Well in fact it was a white powder he held up, he just identified it incorrectly/miss-spoke and caused a horrific event on millions.

Being a citizen of an "exceptional' regime, these errors are easily forgotten.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## harrybarracuda

Oh look: Dumb, Dumber and even Dumber.

Anything relevant to report?

----------


## Klondyke

*US sanctions help India become No.1 buyer of Venezuelan crude

*Imports of Venezuela’s oil by India surged 66 percent in the first half of February to 620,000 barrels a day. The country boosted its purchases from the Latin American nation after US stopped shipments from Caracas.
Indian refiners Reliance Industries and Nayara Energy were driving the import boost. Venezuela has sent its oil minister, Manuel Quevedo, to India to convince refiners to double their oil purchases.

“We are selling more than 300,000” bpd to Indian buyers, Quevedo said on Monday in New Delhi, adding: “We want to double that amount.”

https://www.rt.com/business/451804-v...dia-shipments/

----------


## OhOh

*Hands Off Venezuela: Historic Stance at the United Nations against US Imperialism*




_"In a spectacular display of solidarity and strength, envoys from  such distant capitals as Beijing and Havana, Moscow and Tehran,  Pyongyang and Caracas, Damascus and Managua and numerous other states  stood together, side by side, in front of the United Nations Security  Council, declaring their determination to protect the UN Charter and  International Law, and holding sacrosanct the sovereignty and  inviolability of each member state. 
_
_All these present, and approximately 50 more aligned, are states  whose combined populations comprise more than half the people of the  world, and all have been victimized and pauperized by the predations of  neoliberal capitalist states bleeding the wealth of their peoples.

_


Ambassadors at the UN

_As Venezuelan Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza read  out their new statement, declaring the illegality of unilateral coercive  economic sanctions, and territorial invasions, it became obvious that  the power of this new solidarity, which includes China, Russia, Cuba,  DPRK, Syria, Iran, Palestine, Nicaragua, Venezuela, etc. constitutes a  formidable force which Western capitalism will antagonize at its own  peril. This is a long overdue counterforce to Western domination of the  United Nations, a domination based on money, on the large payments  enabling the US and other capitalist powers to bribe, threaten and  otherwise control the direction of the UN, and distort and destroy the  independence, impartiality and integrity which the UN requires in order  to maintain its legitimacy, and implement the sustained global peace and  justice for which Franklin Delano Roosevelt created it.
_
https://www.globalresearch.ca/hands-...ialism/5668780

----------


## Hugh Cow

_"In a spectacular display of solidarity and strength, envoys from such distant capitals as Beijing and Havana, Moscow and Tehran, Pyongyang and Caracas, Damascus and Managua and numerous other states stood together, side by side, in front of the United Nations Security Council, declaring their determination to protect the UN Charter and International Law, and holding sacrosanct the sovereignty and inviolability of each member state. 

Such great examples of liberal democracies and of course Chinas' respect for the ruling from UNCLOS on the south China sea.

_ :smiley laughing: 

_Jeezus, Omo is a good name for you. You could make a turd look whiter than white.


_

----------


## harrybarracuda

Well those authoritarians have to stick together you know.

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda

A worrying development: The Venezuelan government registering fake domains and redirecting traffic to get details of anyone working with the opposition.

Presumably this will be given to the black clad thugs to go and knock on doors...




> *Executive Summary*The website voluntariosxvenezuela.com, a portal associated with the Venezuelan opposition led by Juan Guaidó, was created to register volunteers interested in helping with the distribution of humanitarian aid. It has become a target of a phishing campaign led by those aligned with the Nicolás Maduro government.
> 
> On February 12, 2019 we detected that CANTV, the largest internet service provider in Venezuela owned by the government of Nicolás Maduro, was redirecting users visiting the website to another server hosting a visually identical malicious website which is not owned or controlled by the legitimate site administrators of voluntariosxvenezuela.com.
> 
> On the same day, interim President Juan Guaidó launched a massive campaign encouraging people to register as volunteers. As a result, thanks to the scope and number of people mobilized through the campaign, and the percentage of Internet traffic that passes through CANTV networks, we estimate that tens of thousands of people submitted their data to the malicious cloned website.
> 
> We were able to verify that the redirection to the malicious website happened even when using DNS servers that were not CANTV servers (for example, when using Google’s 8.8.8.8 or Cloudflare/APNIC’s 1.1.1.1); traffic was actively monitored and CANTV gave falsified DNS responses to user requests. Our research also directly linked CONATEL, Venezuela’s regulatory institute for communications, with the registration of the false domain. In addition, our research also discovered multiple domains that are similar to social media sites and popular websites that could be used in future phishing campaigns (or have been used already) to collect user data.
> 
> These developments are worrying because they point to an increased sophistication in digital attacks linked to and originating from the government of Nicolás Maduro. This dramatically increases the need for both users and website administrators to take preventative measures to avoid falling into this type or similar phishing campaigns.


https://vesinfiltro.com/noticias/Phi...ets_activists/

----------


## The Shining Light

Goebbels would be proud of you harry.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Goebbels would be proud of you harry.


You're an idiot. Goebbels would have done what Chavismo is doing if he'd had the technology.

----------


## SKkin

Who to believe...Harry and the herd...or? 

The International Rogue Nation: America
The International Rogue Nation: America, by Eric Zuesse - The Unz Review




> Right now, the  U.S. regime (along with its other lap-dog Canada) is perpetrating, or  at least attempting to perpetrate, a coup to take over Venezuela.
> 
> On February 8th, the Latin American Geopolitical Strategic Center (CELAG) issued their study, The Economic Consequences of the Boycott of Venezuela,  and reported that throughout the five-year period of 2013-2017,  Venezuelas economy and society suffered a suffocation [of] $ 22.5  billion in annual revenues, as a result of a deliberate international  strategy of financial isolation [of Venezuela]. Evidently, this  financial pressure intensified since 2015 with the fall in the price of  crude oil. So: thats a total loss of over $112 billion from Venezuela  during the entire 5-year period, and the result has become (especially  after 2014) the impoverishment of the country. The U.S. regime and its  allies and their propaganda-media blame, for that, not themselves, but  the very same Government theyre trying to take down. The U.S. regime  and its allies have contempt for the public everywhere. The more that  Venezuelans blame their own Government for this impoverishment, instead  of blame Americas Government for it, the more that their exploiters  will have contempt for them, but also the more that their exploiters  will benefit from them, because the exploiters taking control of the  Government will then be much easier to do.
> 
> The U.S-and-allied exploiters are attempting to install in Venezuela a  man who has absolutely no justification under the Venezuelan  Constitution to be claiming to be the countrys interim President.  For some mysterious reason, Venezuelas President isnt calling for  that traitor to be brought up on charges of treachery  attempting a  coup  and facing Venezuelas Supreme Judicial Tribunal on such a  charge, which Tribunal is the Constitutionally authorized body to  adjudicate that matter. So, Venezuelas Government is incompetent  but  so too have been all of its predecessors since at least 1980, and  incompetence alone is _not_ Constitutional grounds for replacing Venezuelas President by a foreign-imposed coup. At least Venezuelas actual President is no traitor, such as his would-be successor, Juan Guaido, definitely _is_.
> 
> Did Venezuela invade America so as for Americas economic war against it  to be justified? Did Iraq invade America so as for Americas  destruction of it to be justified? Did Libya invade America so as for  Americas destruction of it to be justified? Did Syria invade America so  as for Americas destruction of it to be justified? Did Ukraine invade  America so as for Americas destruction of it to be justified? None of  them did, at all. In each and every case, it was pure aggression, by  America, the international rogue nation.
> 
> Back  in 1986, regarding Americas international relations including its  coups and invasions, the U.S. quit the International Court of Justice  (ICJ), when that Court ruled against the U.S. in the Iran-Contra case, _Nicaragua v. United States_,  which concerned Americas attempted coup in that country. But though  the U.S. propaganda-media reported the Governments rejection of that  verdict in favor of Nicaragua, they hid the more momentous fact: the  U.S. Government stated that it would not henceforth recognize any  authority in the ICJ concerning Americas international actions. The  public didnt get to know about that. Ever since 1986, the U.S.  Government has been a rogue regime, simply ignoring the ICJ except when  the ICJ could be cited against a country that the U.S. regime is trying  to destroy (democratize). And then, when the ICJ ruled on 9 March 2005  against the U.S. regime in a U.S. domestic matter where the regime  refused to adhere to the U.S. Constitutions due-process clause  regarding the prosecutions and death-sentences against 51 death-row  inmates, and the Court demanded retrials of those convicts, the U.S. regime, in 2005, simply withdrew completely from the jurisdiction of the ICJ.  Ever since 9 March 2005, the U.S. regime places itself above, and  immune to, international law, regarding everything. George W. Bush  completed what Ronald Reagan had started.



Venezuelans' message to the US: Hands off our country

----------


## Klondyke

> in front of the United Nations Security Council, declaring their determination to protect the UN Charter and International Law,


Last time that was a certain colonel Gaddafi who reminded the UN assembly of the UN Charter... Anybody has idea what happened to him?

----------


## SKkin

> Anybody has idea what happened to him?

----------


## OhOh

> course Chinas' respect for the ruling from UNCLOS on the south China sea.


Care to provide a reputable link to your UNCLOS "ruling" confirming your assertion or the clause of UNCLOS stating they are involved in sovereignty issues? You're probably thinking of an unauthorised European based court in error. But prove me wrong.

UNCLOS does not make rulings regarding sovereignty. It is an agreed, UN International Law, set of standards and guidelines which most countries have signed up to and adhere to, including China.

Unfortunately the one major nation that continues to quote it has not. Probably due to itself ignoring every international law and UNSC agreements being the worlds most unexceptional country.




> You could make a turd look whiter than white.


It's a tough job but one can only spend so much time, caring for seeds, sprouting trees,  tending saplings, mature trees, spraying flowers/fruit, picking, grading and taking the just ripe fruit to market, haggling with the buyers and finally taking the cash, to a gold shop, to swap for some more shiny bars. 

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> black clad thugs to go and knock on doors...


Black clad thugs knock down doors, in your dreams. Can you buy large transparent shields, protective headgear, batons and tear gas canisters from your local stores in the ME?

ameristan and it's vassal's SOP is a drone missile strike from 1,000m altitude, controlled from 10,000 miles away and home for tea with the missus and kiddies. Oh how those fat brown babies burn.

After clocking off and washing the virtual blood of innocent wedding parties/market stall women and customers off, in the communal shower at the office.

"What did you do at work today Daddy", 

"I butchered a few brown, baby girls in Raqqa.", replied Drone Flight Controller daddy. 

"What did you learn at school? 

"Oh we studied the UN treaty text about equality of sexes, age, races and religions."

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Who to believe...Harry ...or?


...Another demented lefty desperately trying to avoid placing the blame where it lies, on Chavez and Chavismo's colossal ineptitude, horrendous mismanagment and wanton corruption, proving once again that socialism is shit and invariably ends up in a power grab.

You should try reading Animal Farm.

A few staged lackeys cannot mask the truth.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Black clad thugs knock down doors, in your dreams.


Not my dreams dear boy. Venezuelans' nightmares.

Of course none of this matters to you because you're a snivelling sycophant and apologist for dictators.




> CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — Jhonny Godoy had taken to Twitter to proclaim his opposition to President Nicolas Maduro, posting a video that showed him running through the streets waving the national flag as protests erupted across Venezuela’s capital.
> Two days later, his family said, rifle-wielding special police agents wearing black masks stormed into their home in the Caracas slum of La Vega, pulled him outside and shot him to death.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> 
> PROVEA and Observatory say they recorded 35 deaths during a single week in January — most at night in poor neighborhoods — in addition to eight cases of apparent targeted killings by members of the elite commando unit.
> 
> Godoy’s cousin, Marvelis Sinai, said that when agents burst into the family’s home on Jan. 25, Godoy’s mother Ana Buitrago saw her son beaten and dragged out as she begged for his life. Minutes later, she heard two gunshots.
> ...

----------


## Klondyke

It's the same way, why not to kill two birds with one stone?

*First Venezuela, now Nicaragua? Bolton says Ortegas days numbered & people will soon be free*
Published time: 20 Feb, 2019

 US President Donald Trumps top foreign policy advisor John Bolton appears dead set on resuming his decades-long stand-off with Nicaragua President Daniel Ortega, hinting that Washington-backed regime change may be in the offing.

The Ortega regime has sentenced three farm leaders to 550 years in prison for their roles in protests in 2018, where Ortegas police forces reportedly killed 300 activists. As President Trump said Monday, Ortegas days are numbered and the Nicaraguan people will soon be free, the national security advisor to the US president tweeted on Wednesday.



https://www.rt.com/news/452023-john-...regime-change/

----------


## SKkin

^exporting democracy.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  Just in case your source is not acceptable:

Before Venezuela, US has long involvement in Latin America
https://news.yahoo.com/venezuela-us-...204125773.html






> .Another demented lefty


Wait...what? bsnub said I'm an alt-right winger. I'm so confused.  :Smile: 


btw Harry, you keep telling me Maduro is starving his people. Why am I not seeing starving Venezuelans comparable to the pictures of starving Yemenis? Courtesy of our Saudi friends and ally. 

Maybe "we" really don't care that much about people starving eh?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^exporting democracy.  Just in case your source is not acceptable:
> 
> Before Venezuela, US has long involvement in Latin America
> https://news.yahoo.com/venezuela-us-...204125773.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's pitiful how you try and drag threads off topic if you don't like what they say. This thread is about VENEZUELA.

Yes, the war in Yemen is wrong, but it's essentially a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Open a fucking thread if you want to discuss it.

As for Venezuelans, there is a reason three million have left and thousands more are fleeing every day.




> A public transport employee who doesn't earn enough to feed himself, a doctor who watches his patients die for lack of medicines, a lawmaker without a legislature, three generations of one family emigrating -- the list of victims of Venezuela's crisis is long.
> 
> They come from all walks of life and dread the prospect of another six years under the man who has overseen it, President Nicolas Maduro.
> 
> Nevertheless, the 56-year-old leader will be sworn in for a second six-year term on Thursday, after winning a presidential election in May dismissed as illegitimate by much of the international community on grounds that it was not free, fair or transparent.
> 
> The opposition boycotted the vote, blaming Maduro for the political, economic and humanitarian crisis that has enveloped the oil-rich country.
> 
> - Losing weight -
> ...


https://www.france24.com/en/20190108...nd-maduro-term

----------


## OhOh

Apparently the government has taken the initiative and blocked the border with Brazil.

*Venezuela closes border with Brazil, may do the same at Colombia border  Maduro*


_"Starting Thursday evening, Venezuela is closing its border with  Brazil, President Nicolas Maduro has announced. He added the same  measure may apply to the border with Colombia, though he does not want  to order it.       

The Venezuelan military  was ordered to enforce the travel ban in airspace and on the sea until  further notice, Maduro said  during a televised address from a military  headquarters."_

Continuesat:

https://www.rt.com/news/452105-venez...azil-colombia/

----------


## OhOh

*Hands off ‘our hemisphere’ or Venezuela pays the price: US Senator warns Russia*


Words here:

https://www.rt.com/news/451383-venez...ention-russia/

Illustrations:



Russian "hemisphere".



ameristani  "hemisphere".


Entertaining and pertinent, video for those of limited education:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Apparently the government has taken the initiative and blocked the border with Brazil.
> 
> *Venezuela closes border with Brazil, may do the same at Colombia border – Maduro*
> 
> 
> _"Starting Thursday evening, Venezuela is closing its border with  Brazil, President Nicolas Maduro has announced. He added the same  measure may apply to the border with Colombia, though he does not want  to order it.       
> 
> The Venezuelan military  was ordered to enforce the travel ban in airspace and on the sea until  further notice, Maduro said  during a televised address from a military  headquarters."_
> 
> ...


Unfortunately Venezuelans know that aid is near, so we will see how rank and file soldiers respond to him denying their countrymen food and medicine.

He'll probably cut the internet again as he has done several times.

D-Day is tomorrow.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *Hands off ‘our hemisphere’ or Venezuela pays the price: US Senator warns Russia*


You could have saved all your RT waffle if you'd simply known that US Senators do not command the military.

----------


## OhOh

Don't the ameristani politically elected reps have to hold a vote to go to war?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Don't the ameristani politically elected reps have to hold a vote to go to war?


Yes but they can't start one, dumbass.

Scarily, baldy orange cunto is Commander-in-Chief of the US military.

But it seems they spend a lot of time not listening to him where they can. I think they throw him a fish.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Venezuelan soldiers killed a woman near the Brazilian border Friday as a group from the indigenous Pemon community tried to stop a convoy that was sealing the international crossing against humanitarian-aid shipments.

Community members stopped anti-riot troops and their vehicles as they tried to assert control over the remote area around Gran Sabana, which is about 780 miles southeast of Caracas. That set off the shooting, which also left 15 indigenous people injured, three seriously, said Americo de Grazia, an opposition member of the National Assembly.

"The military began to shoot," he said. "They didn't use tear gas or pellets. But they had to withdraw because the indigenous community came out to protest in a rage, maintaining control of the area."

The violence came as Venezuela prepares for a weekend of spectacle and danger as the opposition tries to open the borders of the hungry nation for shipments of food and medicine.

Just across the border in Cucuta, Colombia, a concert Friday will raise money and try to inspire opponents of the autocratic socialist regime. Volunteers are preparing to don white garb Saturday morning and walk across international bridges to bring food and medicine to their compatriots.

On the Venezuelan side, President Nicolas Maduro says the aid is a pretext for a U.S. intervention and has locked down his nation. Authorities hindered the movements of opposition lawmakers and National Assembly leader Juan Guaido, who is trying to rally the world as he attempts to break Maduro's grip on the military.

Guaido's primary weapon is tons of donated food and medicine being stockpiled in Colombia, Brazil and the island of Curacao. Maduro's government says the ravaged country has no need for help, while U.S. President Donald Trump has said all options are open if Venezuela continues to block the supplies. Traditional aid groups have shunned the effort, saying basic human needs shouldn't be tied to politics.

Darvis Avila, a 48-year-old Venezuelan pineapple picker, fled his homeland four months ago amid hyperinflation and malnutrition. On Thursday, he stood at the six-lane Tienditas Bridge in Cucuta, which leads to Venezuela, but has never been used.

"This fight isn't for us, it's for our relatives in Venezuela," he said. "I -- and not just me but a lot of Venezuelans -- will be here on Saturday at 6 a.m. to bring in the aid for those who really need it."

Cucuta's Aid Live concert was organized by Virgin Atlantic founder Sir Richard Branson and promises a bill of Latin superstars such as Luis Fonsi, Juanes and J Balvin.

Branson told the gathering crowd Friday morning he hoped "that the soldiers do the right thing and let much needed medical help that has been donated from many, many South American countries, food, across the bridges, across the rivers to people who desperately need it."

Organizers expect tens of thousands on the site, an expansive pasture that they said can contain 300,000 — almost half the city's population. Workers erected a proscenium that soared 14 meters high and was decorated in the colors of the Venezuelan flag.

Opposition supporters passed out flyers urging people to camp out after the show, before arising to cross the bridge, one of three in that area of the border. It has been blocked for days by trailers the Maduro regime placed there, and Colombian authorities said Friday they had been welded to the ground. Opposition officials said they would bring in heavy equipment to move them aside.

Colombia's migration authority said late Thursday that traffic on the international spans Saturday will be restricted to people mobilizing aid.

The marchers will face a formidable force: On the Venezuelan side, there is a heavy police presence. Patrols on motorcycles and in Toyota trucks crisscrossed towns and cities near the border. Guardsmen set up checkpoints on major roads leading into Colombia, and hundreds of soldiers were deployed to the Tienditas Bridge. Armored vehicles and personnel carriers rolled throughout the area.

As Aid Live kicked off in nearby Cucuta, small groups wearing white and carrying Venezuelan flags trickled to crossings in the Venezuelan town of San Antonio del Tachira.

Venezuelans from across the country milled around San Antonio on Thursday. Most had come to shop, others to emigrate along with luggage, pets and loved ones.

Lizmary Rodriguez, a 32-year-old teacher from Portuguesa state, traveled 12 hours by bus to buy basics in Colombia including dish soap, sausages and used tires — all of which she said were cheaper across the line. Rodriguez said she is overjoyed by the international attention Guaido has garnered but doubts change will happen soon even if the aid manages to get past border guards.

"Hopefully this will at least open their eyes," she said.

The confrontation caps a month long run of protests and sanctions aimed at unseating Maduro, the 56-year-old hand-picked heir of the late President Hugo Chavez. After Guaido invoked Venezuela's charter Jan. 23 to declare himself the rightful head of state, the U.S. urged other nations to recognize the 35-year-old as president. It also levied crippling sanctions on Venezuela's all-important oil industry.

On Monday, Trump railed against the dangers of socialism in a speech in Miami and called on the military to stop supporting the embattled president. The European Union is sending a team to push for new elections. Russia, China and Turkey have maintained their alliance with Maduro. The president is holding onto power longer than many expected, and allies worry that efforts to oust him could backfire.

Christopher Sabatini, who teaches international relations at Columbia University in New York, said the Trump administration is quickly running out of diplomatic options. "They hope each one of the measures produces the result they want — each time doubling down on the latest step,'' he said.

The military — the nation's crucial force — has largely stuck by Maduro, with only a scant few of the thousands of top officers abandoning him.

On Thursday, Hugo Carvajal, a retired army officer who led military intelligence for more than 10 years, published a video on his Twitter account recognizing Guaido. But Maduro demonstrated his remaining power vividly: He announced that Venezuela's land crossings with Brazil would shut and said he is also weighing "a total closure of the border with Colombia." He had already sealed off access from Curacao and the islands of Aruba and Bonaire.

Officers stopped three buses carrying lawmakers sympathetic to Guaido in Carabobo state as they headed to San Antonio. Guaido, traveling separately for security reasons, was held up by army trucks blocking a tunnel east of the capital, said Edward Rodriguez, a spokesman.

On Friday morning, Guaido had yet to appear publicly at the border.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...222-story.html

----------


## Klondyke

*US imports of ‘sanctioned’ Venezuelan oil surge fivefold*
Published time: 22 Feb, 2019

Purchases of Venezuelan crude by US energy companies saw a five-fold weekly growth as of the middle of February, nearly reaching their pre-sanctions level, the latest data published by the International Energy Agency (IEA) shows.

According to the Paris-based agency, imports of crude from Venezuela to the US amounted to 558,000 barrels per day during the week through February 15, compared to 117,000 barrels per day in the previous week. As of January 25, just days before US sanctions came into effect, American firms reportedly imported 587,000 barrels per day.

Washington imposed economic penalties against Venezuela’s state oil giant PDVSA, freezing $7 billion of the company’s assets. The sanctions also block payments to PDVSA accounts with buyers of Venezuela’s oil directed to deposit all transactions in a separate account, to which the company doesn’t have access.

The US Treasury issued temporary permits for buying Venezuelan crude to foreign companies until the current deals are expired, and the firms find new suppliers with the deadline set by the White House to expire on April 28.

https://www.rt.com/business/452148-u...imports-surge/

----------


## Klondyke

How dare he?

*Democrats howl after Bernie Sanders refuses to recognize Guaido as Venezuela’s leader*
Published time: 22 Feb, 2019



Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders has refused to recognize Juan Guaido as Venezuela’s ‘interim president,’ calling instead for new elections. His comments have enraged Democratic lawmakers who are pushing for regime change.

Sanders is widely seen as a top contender to take on Donald Trump in 2020, but his views on the current political crisis in Venezuela have put him at odds with the Democratic Party.

In an interview with Univision, the senator – an independent who identifies as a democratic socialist – was asked if he considers self-declared interim president Juan Guaido to be the legitimate leader of Venezuela.

“No. I think what has to happen right now – I think there are serious questions about the recent election. There are many people who feel it was a fraudulent election, and I think the United States has got to work with the international community to make sure that there is a free and fair election in Venezuela,” Sanders responded.

While he stressed the need for international cooperation in resolving the standoff between Guaido and Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, Sanders said that the United States “must not use military force and intervene again as it has done in the past in Latin America… whether it was Chile or Brazil or the Dominican Republic or Guatemala.”

https://www.rt.com/usa/452141-sander...guaido-maduro/

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Care to provide a reputable link to your UNCLOS "ruling" confirming your assertion or the clause of UNCLOS stating they are involved in sovereignty issues? You're probably thinking of an unauthorised European based court in error. But prove me wrong.
> 
> UNCLOS does not make rulings regarding sovereignty. It is an agreed, UN International Law, set of standards and guidelines which most countries have signed up to and adhere to, including China.
> 
> Unfortunately the one major nation that continues to quote it has not. Probably due to itself ignoring every international law and UNSC agreements being the worlds most unexceptional country.
> 
> Hohum the usual obfuscation.
> 
> 
> It's a tough job but one can only spend so much time, caring for seeds, sprouting trees,  tending saplings, mature trees, spraying flowers/fruit, picking, grading and taking the just ripe fruit to market, haggling with the buyers and finally taking the cash, to a gold shop, to swap for some more shiny bars.


You forgot talking shite

----------


## Hugh Cow

Although Maduro has refused aid "Venezuelans are not beggars", a report on BBC said that 300 tons of aid has just been supplied by Vladistan. One things for certain, that fat coont Maduro has not been starving.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Although Maduro has refused aid "Venezuelans are not beggars", a report on BBC said that 300 tons of aid has just been supplied by Vladistan. One things for certain, that fat coont Maduro has not been starving.


That 300 tons will firstly satisfy the needs of _Chavismo_ and his cronies. What is left over will be sold by his military buddies on the black market at a fat profit.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Chavismo is afraid the Venezuelan people will see the truth. So like any sensible dictator....


Platform disruptions affecting multiple Google services including the YouTube streaming platform as well as Microsoft Bing have been detected by the NetBlocks internet observatory on state provider CANTV (AS8048), starting 7:20 PM UTC Friday 22 February 2019, 3:20 PM local time, during the live streaming of a prominent humanitarian aid concert.

Update – 8:20 PM: Connectivity has been restored following the outage, with streams again accessible through YouTube and the concert’s own streaming platform.


Update – 10:20 PM: The disruption of YouTube, Bing and Google services occurred for a second time, starting just before the appearance of opposition leader Juan Guaidó at the Venezuela Aid Live concert area.

Update – 11:40 PM: The same disruptions occurred for the third time from 11:03 PM UTC to 11:30 PM UTC during British entrepreneur Richard Branson’s closing ceremony speech.

Update – 12:25 AM: The disruption of YouTube, Bing and Google services has occurred for the fourth time from 12:03 AM UTC to 12:20 AM UTC during the joint press conference by Juan Guaidó and the presidents of Colombia, Chile, Paraguay at the Tienditas bridge.

https://netblocks.org/reports/youtube-blocked-during-venezuela-aid-live-concert-3RyjdbAg

----------


## Klondyke

*"US puppet, trained by ex members of Serbian organization"
*



After a meeting with US Vice President Mike Pence, Juan Guaido declared himself the president of Venezuela.

That's what the US media are saying, while the Russians are reporting that the self-proclaimed leader had been recruited by Washington some ten years ago, and is nothing but a US puppet.

This information was conveyed by Venezuela's Ambassador to Russia Carlos Rafael Faria Tortosa. 

"In November 2010, according to emails obtained by Venezuelan security services, Guaido and several other student activists attended a secret five-day training at the hotel 'Fiesta Mexicana' in Mexico. The sessions were run by Otpor, the Belgrade-based regime change trainers backed by the US government. The meetings has reportedly received the blessing of Otto Reich, a fanatically anti-Castro Cuban exile working in George W. Bush's Department of State, ad the right-wing former Colombian President Alvaro Uribe," it is stated. 

The article says that Otpor was made up by a group of students from Belgrade who worked to end the regime of Slobodan Milosevic, and that "the children who led the group, after the fall of Milosevic, dressed up in suits and created the organization CANVAS. They are still financed from the United States and travel the world in an attempt to bring down dictators and autocrats, i.e., those that the US does not like." 

The Venezuelan ambassador added that the Americans had estimated Guaido was "ready for action" - but that he actually is not. 

"He's just a puppet, he's been put there for the United States to stand behind him and speak. The concept of a temporary president does not exist in the Venezuelan Constitution, Guaido and the American allies just want to deceive the international public," Tortosa stressed.

https://www.b92.net/eng/news/world.p...&nav_id=106201

----------


## Klondyke

*Investigating Venezuela's 'humanitarian crisis': Max Blumenthal tours a supermarket in Caracas

*

----------


## Klondyke

> One things for certain, that fat coont Maduro has not been starving.


Wouldn't you similarly suppose that e.g. Churchill had starved while the UK population was on rationing stamps during the WW2 and still few more years after?

----------


## OhOh

^If you add in the calories from his wine, port, whisky and brandy intake, he may well have been on a 3 insects a day diet.

----------


## SKkin

> This thread is about VENEZUELA.


An ocean of lies on Venezuela...

----------


## harrybarracuda

Can't take him seriously after Brickleberry. I don't think anyone else does, either. He's just the angry old man ranting at passers by from his lawn.

----------


## SKkin



----------


## Klondyke

It has worked in Ukraine with Biden and McCain, why not to follow the well-proven procedure?
(Do they bring also the $5B that are now missing for the Wall?)

*After Venezuela violence, Pence to meet with Guaido in Colombia

*WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Vice President Mike Pence plans to have his first meeting with Venezuela’s Juan Guaido in Colombia on Monday, Pence aides said, in a signal of support for the opposition leader after a weekend of violence.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKCN1QD00V

----------


## SKkin

> Can't take him seriously after Brickleberry. I don't think anyone else does, either. He's just the angry old man ranting at passers by from his lawn.


Your thoughts on what Alfred De Zayas had to say to Abby Martin in that video?  ^^^^

 ::chitown::

----------


## SKkin

> U.S. Vice President Mike Pence plans to have  his first meeting with Venezuela’s Juan Guaido in Colombia


I thought Guaido was not allowed to leave Venezuela?  :Confused: 





> Alfred De Zayas


Speaking of which...here he is in another video. He's probably just another lying lackey, right harry?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I thought Guaido was not allowed to leave Venezuela?


He wasn't allowed to take a convoy to go and pick up the aid. Obviously slipped off in a car and went another way.





> Speaking of which...here he is in another video. He's probably just another lying lackey, right harry?


I think your Alzheimers meds need upping.

Go and read #166 again. He's a fucking twat.

----------


## Looper

> Bare-faced and shameless hypocrisy - yet again- brought to you by the bullies of the world.
> 
> Disgusting.


Signed 'disgusted' of Woking, Surrey.


O woe is me.

Wailing and gnashing of teeth be upon me for the evil merkins are upon the earth.

Worses than orcses is the merkins....

:'(

----------


## Buckaroo Banzai

> 


The operative word is "privatization" everything else is right wing BS designed for big oil to take the venezuelan people's wealth.

----------


## SKkin

> Worses than orcses is the merkins....


Or at least the merkins in charge of these shitshows...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The operative word is "privatization" everything else is right wing BS designed for big oil to take the venezuelan people's wealth.


With the amount of more easily refined oil available, and the amount of damage Chavez and Chavizmo have done to the infrastructure, it's touch and go whether that Venezuelan shit is going to ever be worth digging up.

Venezuela needs an oil price of $117.5/bbl to cover government spending.

Ain't gonna get near that for a long, long time, and everyone will be making electric cars powered by renewables by then.

So the argument that the US needs the oil gets weaker every day. Besides which they were still buying a Venezuelan blend to refine until a couple of weeks ago, and that's only because refining margins are holding up.

https://knoema.com/vyronoe/cost-of-o...ion-by-country

----------


## foobar

> So the argument that the US needs the oil gets weaker every day.


Gets weaker by the day?  :rofl: 

Lord Haw Haw will have you believe the US doesn't care about oil and how the US is really just misunderstand, the US is actually a humanitarian organisation, coming with their food trucks to help the poor brown people of South America, & Trump being a good Christian, just wants to make Venezuela great again, ssshhh don't mention the wall  :Smile: 

Meanwhile back on Planet Earth, according to BP: Venezuela has the largest proven oil fields on the planet, even larger than Saudi...




No doubt Haw Haw will be along to tell that BP are an unreliable source and hes got the real story from some obscure site no one has every heard of

----------


## SKkin

> the US is actually a humanitarian organisation, coming with their food trucks to help the poor brown people of South America, & Trump being a good Christian,


The usual suspects in charge of this coup in progress don't give a flying fuck about the Venezuelan people. Hell's bells...they don't even give a flying fuck about the American people.

Lies lies lies...been watching this MoO all my life. Nothing ever changes except for the countries/leaders being targeted.

----------


## Texpat

Better to sit idly by and watch it further unravel -- like Rwanda.

 ::chitown:: 

I bet there is some cheap pussy to be found in Caracas these days -- silver lining and all ...

Looks OK from my living room.

----------


## Hugh Cow

Foobar: "ssshhh don't mention the wall" 
Trump needs that wall to stop all those poor oppressed Americans (especially those evil white ones) flooding those marvelously well run latin American republics in search of a better life.
 No doubt the wall in Berlin was to stop all those oppressed west Germans from flooding into the East German workers paradise.
Has anyone with an intellectual ability slightly higher than a turnip stopped to ask themselves why latin Americans including Venezuelans are trying to migrate like a hord of locusts into the USA? Obviously because their country is even worse.

----------


## OhOh

The glorious puppet and supporters welcoming the foreign weapons convoy?




Nah, it's some Russian football fans welcoming their team. The Russian team, St. Petersburg,  beat the Turkish team.

Shirts available here:



https://en.shop.fc-zenit.ru/product/..._449_markizio/

No indication THE LORD was driving the lead car, yet.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> why latin Americans including Venezuelans are trying to migrate like a hord of locusts into the USA? Obviously because their country is even worse.




Is that all those countries whose governments support the ameristani regime change attempt on Venezuela. Possibly fed up with the empire's extractive system and vassal leaders.

They are coming. What you gonna do nuke em?





Or let the dogs loose.

----------


## OhOh

> I bet there is some cheap pussy to be found in Caracas these days


Don't forget Haiti.

*Security Alert:  U.S. Embassy Port-au-Prince, Haiti (February 22, 2019)**Location:

*


Area of Avenue Christophe
*Events:  * Mobile demonstration.


*Actions to take:

*


Avoid the area;Avoid demonstrations and any large gatherings of people;Do not attempt to drive through roadblocks; andIf you encounter a roadblock, turn around and get to a safe area.


It's pay back time/run away time.

----------


## Klondyke

> the US is actually a humanitarian organisation,


Yes, the Venezuelans are looking forward to their bright future under the wings of Big Brother - similarly as in Ukraine, it has been proven how after 5 years the population (those who have not yet run to West and East) is flourishing:

*Ukrainian people still rank among world’s poorest, study finds
*Published Oct. 19, 2018

Ukrainians rank among the world’s poorest people and the net wealth of its citizens now lags behind countries like Nepal, Bangladesh and Cameroon, new research published on Oct. 18 shows.

According to a new Global Wealth Report published by Credit Suisse, the Swiss multinational investment bank, Ukraine now ranks 123rd out of 140 countries in terms of its citizen’s median personal wealth.

https://www.kyivpost.com/business/uk...udy-finds.html

----------


## Hugh Cow

OMO: 
Is that all those countries whose governments support the ameristani regime change attempt on Venezuela. Possibly fed up with the empire's extractive system and vassal leaders.

So not governments corruption crime and poverty then. Its because some governments support the Americans.
Thanks for clearing that up. Makes perfect sense.... At least to someone with the logic and analytical skills of a lettuce leaf.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Gets weaker by the day? 
> 
> Lord Haw Haw will have you believe the US doesn't care about oil and how the US is really just misunderstand, the US is actually a humanitarian organisation, coming with their food trucks to help the poor brown people of South America, & Trump being a good Christian, just wants to make Venezuela great again, ssshhh don't mention the wall 
> 
> Meanwhile back on Planet Earth, according to BP: Venezuela has the largest proven oil fields on the planet, even larger than Saudi...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No doubt Haw Haw will be along to tell that BP are an unreliable source and hes got the real story from some obscure site no one has every heard of


Sorry, when I said 


> Venezuelan shit


 I was talking about their oil, not their sewage problem.

I keep forgetting that you're such a dumbass that one needs to explain the basics to you like you're a five year old.




> In addition to conventional oil, Venezuela has oil sands deposits similar in size to those of Canada, and approximately equal to the world's reserves of conventional oil. Venezuela's Orinoco tar sands are less viscous than Canada's Athabasca oil sands – meaning they can be produced by more conventional means – but _they are buried too deep to be extracted by surface mining._ Estimates of the recoverable reserves of the Orinoco Belt range from 100 billion barrels (16×109 m3) to 270 billion barrels (43×109 m3). In 2009, USGS updated this value to 513 billion barrels (8.16×1010 m3).
> 
> 
> According to the United States Geological Survey, the Orinoco Belt alone is estimated to contain 900–1,400 billion barrels (2.2×1011 m3) of heavy crude in proven and unproven deposits. Of this, the United States Geological Survey estimated that 380–652 billion barrels (1.037×1011 m3) could be technically recoverable, which would make Venezuela's total recoverable reserves (proven and unproven) among the largest in the world._ The technology needed to recover ultra-heavy crude oil, such as in most of the Orinoco Belt, may be much more complex and expensive than that of Saudi Arabia's light oil industry._ The USGS did not make any attempt to determine how much oil in the Orinoco Belt is economically recoverable. _Unless the price of crude rises, it is likely that the proven reserves will have to be adjusted downward._


Do you understand it now, muppet boy?

----------


## OhOh

> Do you understand it now, muppet boy?





> according to BP: Venezuela has the largest proven oil fields on the planet,


Just to clarify, are we to assume all the data from BP is subjective, depending on who explains the numbers to the worlds "muppets", or are in fact measured in the same way and hence do have relevance when a country claims or is rated by BP, to have the most oil?

Do other sources re-arrange the order and if they do are we to believe them or BP and why?

----------


## SKkin

Well there's still the bauxite, coltan and gold...

Venezuela emerges as new source of ‘conflict’ minerals[2012]




> And as a strategic mineral, Coltan carries weight because it allows  guidance controls in smart bombs to work in extreme climate conditions.  Because of that, Venezuelan coltan has raised concerns in Washington,  D.C., as the government of President Hugo Chávez has selected Iranian,  Chinese and Russian firms to explore minerals and is looking to develop  future supplies of different ores.


https://www.icij.org/investigations/...lict-minerals/

Oh that's right, the US is only there for humanitarian reasons...sorry, completely forgot.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

I suspect pissing off/"commercialising" Russian and Chinese investments isn't even considered. :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Just to clarify, are we to assume all the data from BP is subjective, depending on who explains the numbers to the worlds "muppets", or are in fact measured in the same way and hence do have relevance when a country claims or is rated by BP, to have the most oil?
> 
> Do other sources re-arrange the order and if they do are we to believe them or BP and why?


Are you fucking going retard as well? Where did I say they didn't have lots of oil?

I said that their reserves are mainly heavy crude in inaccessible areas that makes it very expensive to produce and very hard to sell.

Do you find that hard to understand?

----------


## OhOh

My dearest 'arry, I sincerely apologise for beings a muppet yet again.




> very hard to sell.


Especially as they sold the vast % to a country who uses illegal sanctions. One hopes Venezuela will now diversify their sales. Maybe the Saudis, Indians and Chinese will quickly offer alternative refining opportunities. I'm sure a deal can be agreed, local refining capacity and investment in the source fields, agriculture, food production, industrialisation ....... all to move away from relying on imports.

MVGTD (Make Venezuela Great This Decade). There isn't much competition in South America.  :Smile:

----------


## foobar

> Just to clarify, are we to assume all the data from BP is *subjective*


The graph shows the measure of 'proven reserves' in 'billions of barrels'.  

I'm gonna say the use of the word 'proven' implies objectivity of the data and 'billions of barrels' is a hard quant.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> One hopes Venezuela will now diversify their sales. Maybe the Saudis, Indians and Chinese will quickly offer alternative refining opportunities. I'm sure a deal can be agreed, local refining capacity and investment in the source fields, agriculture, food production, industrialisation ....... all to move away from relying on imports.
> 
> MVGTD (Make Venezuela Great This Decade). There isn't much competition in South America.


Anyone will buy cheap oil. Most of it is going to India and China at the moment.

But you must have missed the bit where I mentioned that even Chinastan is getting skittish about whether or not it's going to get a return on its investment and kicked Venezuela off a Refinery project.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/31/reut...--sources.html

And you must have missed the bit where the Saudis are in there signing onto JV's like a rat up a drainpipe.

Saudi Aramco to sign China refinery deals during crown prince visit | Arab News

They don't care if Chinastan uses it to refine discounted Venezuelan oil, or their own heavy shit. They make money either way.

----------


## harrybarracuda

P.S. The US doesn't need it. Their own production is going to keep rising through 2020.

I suspect they are making hay while the sun shines and before they replace oil with renewables and petroleum-driven vehicles with electric ones.




> Crude oil output from the United States is expected to rise to a new record of more than 12 million barrels per day (bbl/d) this year and to climb to nearly 13 million bbl/d next year, the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) said Jan. 15 in its first 2020 forecast.
> 
> 
> U.S. crude production is forecast to climb 1.14 million bbl/d to 12.07 million bbl/d in 2019 and an additional 790,000 bbl/d in 2020 to 12.86 million bbl/d, the statistics arm of the U.S. Energy Department said in a monthly report.


https://www.oilandgasinvestor.com/ei...d-2020-1728396

----------


## OhOh

> I'm gonna say the use of the word 'proven' implies objectivity of the data


BP presumably uses the same objectivity of "proven" to all claims, yes? Or does it accept whatever number the media tells it?




> Their own production is going to keep rising through 2020


But is it the"right sort" of "oil"? As some know there are "sludgy", "medium", "distillation", "sweet", "sour"......... types of crude. One may need to have many available to produce the correct blend for chemicals, petrol, diesel etc.

----------


## OhOh

Whilst some projects Venezuela as a basket case country, unable to provide much for it's citizens, some have differing opinions. Luckily we have an international organisation which produces tables indicating such things as.

Human Development Indices and Indicators
2018 Statistical Update

_"Table 1, Human Development Index and its components,ranks countries by 2017 HDI value and details the values of the  three  HDI  components:  longevity,  education  (with  two  indicators) and income per capita. The table also presents the difference in rankings by HDI value and gross national income per  capita,  as  well  as  the  rank  on  the  2016  HDI,  calculated  using the most recently revised historical data available in 2018."__

_OhOh objective analysis:_

_As of 2018 rankings Venezuela at No.78 of the 195 countries.. 

Chile at No. 44, Argentina at No. 47, Uruguay at No.55,  Panama at No. 66 and Mexico at No.74 beat it.

It's position in South American countries is is 4th. out of 15 countries and dependent territories..(As Panama and Mexico are already ameristan vassals)  :Smile: 
 
The following did not:


Bolivia
Brazil
ColombiaEcuador
Guyana
Paraguay
PeruSurinameFalkland Islands (UK)
French Guiana (France)South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands (UK)
 

See pages 27 to 29 of this:

http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/2018_human_development_statistical_update.pdf

For some perspective Thailand is ranked No. 83.

One wonders when the 11 below Venezuela will be subject to illegal regime change by ameristan, some European and vassal countries similarly?

----------


## uncle junior

> Bolivia
> Brazil
> Colombia
> Ecuador
> Guyana
> Paraguay
> Peru
> Suriname
> Falkland Islands (UK)
> ...


what natural resources do these countries have compared to VZ's oil reserves.....how  much has the incumbent gov't allowed the infrastructure to fall into disrepair, how bad is the inflation in these countries compared to Chauvistastan, how much int'l aid have these countries turned away at the border using the armed soldiers....

----------


## OhOh

^You'd best ask the UN how the positions are decided.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> But is it the"right sort" of "oil"? As some know there are "sludgy", "medium", "distillation", "sweet", "sour"......... types of crude. One may need to have many available to produce the correct blend for chemicals, petrol, diesel etc.


Well they ain't going to be producing it if they can't make money out of it.

That shows either titanic stupidity or (as in the case of _Chavismo_) desperation.

The good thing about US shale is that if they aren't making money they can just plug the hole (what they did last time the price bottomed) and wait for the price to rise, so they must be making money at current prices.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^You'd best ask the UN how the positions are decided.


Yeah, not much point saying xx% of the population have access to a hospital when it's got no drugs and no fucking doctors.

----------


## OhOh

> so they must be making money at current prices.


The investors require production now otherwise the loans will stop and new investors will not buy the companies shares. As for making a profit, the banks have already covered their asses, the cream from the late coming investors will hopefully continue.

The economics have always been dubious.

*Wall Street Loses Faith In Shale*


_To Wall Street, the shale industry has lost a lot of its allure. A decade’s worth of promises have failed to materialize, and Big Finance is cutting some of its ties with smaller shale drillers who have not delivered.

__The Wall Street Journal reports that  the shale industry only saw $22 billion in new bond and equity deals,  down by more than half from 2016 levels, which was a much worse time for  the market.

__The steep decline in new debt and equity issuance is a sign that  major investors are no longer rushing to finance unprofitable shale  drilling. It’s worth noting that this is a new development. For years  Wall Street financed unprofitable drilling, holding out on the promise  that rapid production growth would eventually pay off.
_
_Shale wells suffer from precipitous decline rates, with as much as  three quarters of a well’s total lifetime production coming out in the  first year or two. After an initial burst of output, shale wells enter a  steep decline.
_
_Of course, this has been known since the beginning and Wall Street  has long been fully aware. But major investors hoped that shale  companies would scale up, achieve efficiencies and lower breakeven  prices to the point that they could turn a profit.
_
_However, that has not been the case. While there are some drillers  that are profitable, taken as a whole the industry has been cash flow  negative essentially since its beginning in the mid-2000s. For instance,  the IEA estimates that the shale industry posted cumulative negative  free cash flow of over $200 billion between 2010 and 2014."
_
Continues:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...es-faith-shale


https://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/...mics-shale-oil

https://westernresourceadvocates.org/download/1693/

----------


## uncle junior

> ^You'd best ask the UN how the positions are decided.


If ur gonna throw some what about these countries  up for distraction you should  at least have the numbers to make sure they're as bad or worse off than   VZ

----------


## OhOh

I hope your not suggesting a UN agency is lying.

----------


## uncle junior

Suggesting that ur crap at using what about as a form of distraction.....or are you suggestibg the US should step up aid to the counties on ur little list there?

----------


## OhOh

> you should at least have the numbers to make sure they're as bad or worse off than VZ


I provided the link. It's a large documents so I graciously provided you the page numbers. Look for yourself. "The numbers, positions and criteria/particulars" are there.

You can't afford my butlering rates.






> are you suggestibg the US should step up aid to the counties on ur little list there?


It's not my own fake "little list", it has been produced by a UN body.

One  hopes that prior to going to war with a country ameristan politicians  actually know why they are undertaking that action. The published  pretext is patently false, if the UN document is to be believed. You have your own opinion on the UN's work. The South  American countries listed obviously are in greater need, the other 100  or so countries spread around the world, even more so.

As for your claim of distraction, I'm under the impression ameristan, with no resistance from it's own citizens, is allegedly trying to assist a country to relieve itself of a tyrant and raise the living standards of one country's citizens lives. 

Suggesting that ameristan is cherry picking one county when their are many countries, just in South America, which a world organisation not me an individual, considers to have a less beneficial Human development score and is not seeking regime change for it's own motives is not, IMHO, distraction.

Distraction claims generally show limited knowledge of the subject being discussed, uttered by lazy posters. Of which you are now an example. That's without your juvenile name calling which many here believe is a useful, intelligent and beneficial manner to converse on a subject. But that's for you to decide and act according to your own nature.

There is I'm told an "ignore button" available to all. Use it if I offend you.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The investors require production now otherwise the loans will stop and new investors will not buy the companies shares. As for making a profit, the banks have already covered their asses, the cream from the late coming investors will hopefully continue.
> 
> The economics have always been dubious.
> 
> *Wall Street Loses Faith In Shale*
> 
> 
> _To Wall Street, the shale industry has lost a lot of its allure. A decade’s worth of promises have failed to materialize, and Big Finance is cutting some of its ties with smaller shale drillers who have not delivered.
> 
> ...


Fuck me they don't half write some tripe don't they.

So small shale producers are more reactive to price changes, well what a bunch of fucking genuises.

 :rofl:

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## OhOh

> Fuck me they don't half write some tripe don't they.


Usually, unfortunately it's a western reputable voice and many believe what the MSM publishes.

The numbers don't.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Distraction claims generally show limited knowledge of the subject being discussed, uttered by lazy posters.


Ironic coming from someone who frequently posts state sponsored nonsense and tries to change tack every time it is exposed.

Wants some UN figures on Venezuela? Try this one:




> Venezuela is the only country in South America, and one of only two in Latin America, where hunger is increasing, a new report from the United Nations has revealed.
> 
> 
> While fewer people go hungry throughout most of South America and the vast majority of Latin America, the impact of Venezuela’s ongoing crisis has had such a severe impact that it has brought a notable increase to the region's overall percentage of severe food insecurity, El Paisreported. About 3.7 million Venezuelans were undernourished in 2017, approximately 12 percent of the population. In Latin America, 
> 
> Belize also has seen a decrease in food security.
> 
> https://www.newsweek.com/venezuela-only-south-american-country-hunger-increasing-1117995


I do hope you watch that video in its entirety and let me know with which of its stated facts you disagree.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Usually, unfortunately it's a western reputable voice and many believe what the MSM publishes.
> 
> The numbers don't.


So you are trying to say the increase in shale oil production in the US is costing producers money?

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

> tries to change tack every time it is exposed.


I am always willing to discus any evidence you supply if it is fully documented. I will watch your video and comment on it. If I desire to.




> you are trying to say


Don't take the ameristani MSM article, which specifically states:

"_ taken as a whole the industry has been cash flow  negative  essentially since its beginning in the mid-2000s. For instance,  the IEA  estimates that the shale industry posted cumulative negative  free cash  flow of over $200 billion between 2010 and 2014."

_as being from my pen.

You, personally with no financial breakdown or links however, claim otherwise.




> Well they ain't going to be producing it if they can't make money out of it.


Suggesting I provide "facts", to back up my opinions and unfortunately you, as is your style, do not.

----------


## OhOh

It appears that the regime change puppet, by allegedly breaking a court order has exposed himself to arrest, worldwide, for illegally leaving the country.

*US-backed Venezuela ‘president’ Guaido could face 30 years in prison – judge*

_
"__Opposition politician Juan Guaido, who declared himself  president of Venezuela with US backing, may face up to 30 years in  prison, a judge said. Meanwhile, US is threatening new sanctions against  Caracas to compel regime change.      

__Guaido’s visit to Colombia  on February 22 violated the travel ban imposed by Venezuela’s supreme  court, deputy judge of the Supreme Tribunal for Justice Juan Carlos  Valdez told Sputnik on Tuesday._
_"He is a person hiding from  justice. What happens with runaways who are re-entering the country and  are found by the authorities? They must be caught and sent to prison,” Valdez said, adding, “He may face up to 30 years in jail.”
_
_State prosecutors are currently analyzing Guaido’s conduct for possible crimes, the judge added.
_
_Guaido crossed into Colombia on Friday, ostensibly to lead a “human wave” of supporters across the border and force the military and border guards loyal to the government to allow in “humanitarian aid”  provided by the US. He was nowhere to be seen, however, as his  followers clashed with security forces. The aid was not allowed in.
_
_The  self-proclaimed president then went to Bogota, where he attended  Monday’s meeting of the Lima Group of countries backing the US attempt  to force Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro to resign.
_
_Speaking before a UN Security Council session on the situation in  Venezuela, US special envoy Elliott Abrams announced that more sanctions  on Caracas will be coming this week.
_
_“We have said that sanctions will continue, we announced sanctions yesterday,” Abrams said. “There  will be more, there will be more this week, there will be more next  week. We'll continue to impose sanctions on high-ranking members of the  regime and people who handle their financial affairs.”
_
_Meanwhile,  Guaido told the Colombian broadcaster NTN24 that he intends to return  to Venezuela in spite of the risk of being arrested."

https://www.rt.com/news/452506-guaido-prison-sanctions-venezuela/
_

----------


## uncle junior

> I am always willing..... If I desire to..



rave on.... ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

*Lima Group does not support military intervention in Venezuela — Brazil's vice president       * _

BOGOTA, February 25. /TASS/. The Lima Group countries do not support a  military intervention in Venezuela, Brazilian Vice President Antonio  Hamilton Mourao said on Monday.
"No one [in the Lima Group] supports a military solution to the situation [in Venezuela]," Mourao said.

The Brazilian vice president noted that "it is necessary to look for other ways to deliver humanitarian aid to Venezuela."
Brazil has no intention of allowing the United States to use its  territory for a military operation against the Venezuelan government,  Mourao stressed.

"This requires the authorization of the National Congress [Brazil’s  parliament]. The [Brazilian] government cannot do that [without  consultations with the parliament]. The majority in the government is  against [the use of Brazil’s territory by American troops]," he noted.

He stressed that Brazil would do its utmost to make sure that the Venezuelan crisis is resolved by diplomatic means.

On January 23 Venezuelan National Assembly Speaker Juan Guaido  proclaimed himself as the country's acting president. Venezuelan  President Nicolas Maduro has described it as a coup attempt and  announced severing diplomatic relations with the United States. On  January 28 the US imposed sancitons on Venezuela's state-owned PDVSA oil  company.

Guaido was recognized as interim president by the Lima Group countries  (except for Mexico), as well as by Albania, Georgia, the United States,  and the Organization of American States. Several EU countries came  forward with support for the Venezuelan parliament and expressed hope  for new elections to resolve the crisis. Maduro was supported by Russia,  Bolivia, Iran, Cuba, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Turkey. Belarus and  China called for resolving all issues by peaceful means and spoke  against any interference from the outside. The UN secretary general  called for dialogue to resolve the crisis.

_
TASS: World - Lima Group does not support military intervention in Venezuela ? Brazil's vice president

----------


## OhOh

> rave on....


In my drug fuelled adolescence it was multi-day "festivals", wandering around searching for a Canadian flag or being kept warm by an organised, hash, food, tent, blanket and pussy, bunny.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *US-backed Venezuela ‘president’ Guaido could face 30 years in prison – supine Chavismo judge*
> _
> _


FTFY.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *Lima Group does not support military intervention in Venezuela — Brazil's vice president*


Who said they did?

----------


## harrybarracuda

The United States announced new sanctions against Venezuelan government officials this week as the situation in the country that’s home to the world’s largest oil reserves continues to escalate. The latest sanctions, against four governors close to President Nicolas Maduro, came after clashes at the border prevented humanitarian aid from entering Venezuela and they will pressure not just the Maduro government but also Venezuelan bondholders and other creditors that rely on oil payments.

Reuters reported yesterday that U.S. Vice President Mike Pence had called on the Lima Group—a group of governments trying to resolve the Venezuelan crisis peacefully—to increase pressure on the Maduro government by seizing PDVSA assets as well as other government-owned assets of Venezuela and transfer the ownership to Juan Guaido’s interim government from the Venezuelan opposition.

The Lima Group, however, is reluctant to interfere so directly. Washington has taken the matter to the United Nations Security Council but it has as members Russia and China—allies and large creditors to Maduro—who can veto U.S. proposals. What this suggests is the crisis in Venezuela will continue with the resolution no closer in sight than it was a month ago.

This is probably making a lot of people and companies nervous: earlier this year, when opposition leader Juan Guaido became the focus of media attention after declaring himself interim president of the country, holders of Venezuelan debt had cause for optimism for the first time in a long while. The hope there will be a government change in Caracas pushed Venezuelan bonds to two-year highs and had some bondholders begin planning for the future and how a new opposition-dominated government would help them get their money back. Alternatively, they will get paid in oil, like China.

China is the largest creditor of the Maduro government. Over the last ten years, Beijing has dispensed some US$62 billion to the Venezuelan state and since the latter is unable to meet its obligations with cash, it is repaying the Chinese debts with crude oil.

The situation is pretty similar with Caracas’ number-two creditor, Moscow. PDVSA has given Rosneft the right to acquire 49 percent of Citgo as collateral on a debt the two agreed a few years ago and it has also agreed to supply crude oil to the Russian company. Now, with the new sanctions—and more to follow, as threatened by Washington—repaying these debts could become even harder, and bondholders’ optimism might fizzle out.

Last month, before the rise of Guaido to international media prominence, Bloomberg reported that a group of Venezuelan bondholders had sent an envoy to the government in Caracas to discuss options for repayment of the debt, on which Venezuela has largely defaulted. The most viable option, it seems, was the same old money-for-oil scheme the Maduro government is using with China and Russia.

However, as the political situation grows increasingly confusing, with two governments, two parliaments, and even two boards of directors for PDVSA, the chances of creditors getting their money in one form or another diminishes. It will diminish even more as Venezuela is forced to reduce its oil production under the weight of the sanctions. Even the oil it does produce cannot be used as payment by U.S. bondholders: they would be in violation of the sanctions if they take it in.

https://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/Sou...Sanctions.html

----------


## harrybarracuda

Geneva, 19 February 2019 – The number of refugees and migrants from Venezuela worldwide now stands at 3.4 million, UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency, and IOM, the International Organization for Migration, announced today.


According to data from national immigration authorities and other sources, countries in Latin America and the Caribbean are hosting an estimated 2.7 million Venezuelans, while other regions account for the rest.

On average, during 2018, an estimated 5,000 people left Venezuela every day in search of protection or a better life.

Colombia hosts the highest number of refugees and migrants from Venezuela, with over 1.1 million. It is followed by Peru, with 506,000; Chile, 288,000; Ecuador, 221,000; Argentina, 130,000; and Brazil, 96,000. Mexico and countries in Central America and the Caribbean are also hosting significant numbers of refugees and migrants from Venezuela.

“The countries of the region have shown tremendous solidarity with refugees and migrants from Venezuela, and implemented resourceful solutions to help them. But these figures underscore the strain on host communities and the continued need for support from the international community, at a time when the world’s attention is on political developments inside Venezuela,” said Eduardo Stein, joint UNHCR-IOM Special Representative for Venezuelan refugees and migrants.

Latin American countries have granted some 1.3 million residence permits and other forms of regular status to Venezuelans and reinforced their asylum systems in order to process an unprecedented number of asylum applications. Since 2014, over 390,000 asylum claims have been lodged by Venezuelans, over 232,000 in 2018 alone.

With rising numbers, the needs of refugees and migrants from Venezuela and the communities hosting them continue to increase. 

Governments in the region have strengthened their national response and are cooperating – through the Quito process – to enhance the assistance and protection of Venezuelan nationals and facilitate their legal, social and economic inclusion. The next regional meeting of this process will take place in Quito in the first week of April.

To complement these efforts, a humanitarian Regional Refugee and Migrant Response Plan (RMRP) for refugees and migrants from Venezuela was launched last December, targeting 2.2 million Venezuelans and 500,000 people in host communities in 16 countries.

https://reliefweb.int/report/venezue...now-34-million

----------


## Klondyke

*Russian Ambassador to the UN: "The sanctions against Venezuela are a robbery so that the country is on its knees"
*
_Embajador ruso en la ONU: “Las sanciones contra Venezuela son un robo para que el país esté de rodillas”

El representante ruso denunció que los daños a la economía ascienden a $345.000 millones de dólares debido a las sanciones de EE.UU. “Pero no se habla de eso”, señaló._

The Russian representative denounced that the damage to the economy amounted to $ 345,000 million due to US sanctions. "But you do not talk about that," he said.

https://www.latercera.com/mundo/noti...dillas/545545/

(I cannot find anything about that on BBC)

----------


## Klondyke

> Geneva, 19 February 2019 – The number of refugees and migrants from Venezuela worldwide now stands at 3.4 million, UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency, and IOM, the International Organization for Migration, announced today.


Perhaps a bit trailing behind Ukraine after they were liberated from their dictator...

*The Great Migration: No One in Ukraine Knows How Many of Our Compatriots Have Moved Abroad 

*According to State Statistics Service data, over the past 12 years Ukraine has been experiencing migration population growth – over the said period 230,000 more people entered the country as compared to those who left. At the same time, according to UN statistics, Ukraine is among the top ten countries with the highest emigration levels and the numbers have increased in recent years. State Statistics Service estimates the number of migrant workers at 1.3 million, while experts say the number varies between 2 and 4 million. The discrepancies emerge both because of different understanding of what “migrant” means and different data collection methods.

A poor understanding of the “mathematical component” leads to confusion and speculation. Thus, for instance, many politicians claim that in recent years between 5 and 8 million Ukrainians left the country trying to get away from poverty and unemployment.

VoxUkraine tried to find out what was wrong with migration data and what could be done about that.

https://voxukraine.org/en/the-great-...-moved-abroad/

----------


## Hugh Cow

Jeezus Here goes Klondyke again with his/her nauseating repititious "what about" obfuscation. Is it possible when you tear yourself away from RT and cuddles with OMO you can stick to VENEZUELA. Does it not make you think at all that his cosying up to the military is the only thing keeping that fat dictator in power? If he was any sort of leader he would test his popularity with free and fair elections. If he did so there could be no legitimate opposition to him, but of course all his shannanigans have been done to keep him in power regardless of the wants of the populace. No doubt you and the your 2 mates Mo and Shemp will remind everyone of the last election which apparently was fair but only to you, your 2 mates, Vlad and Xi, those 2 pillars of democracy.
 If it was a real USA coup the septics would have already destroyed most of their military bases and took over by now. I doubt they fear an army that has  only fought  a few rebels and unarmed civilians, not a real army that shoots back. They U.S. would only have to kill all the Venezuelan generals and that would be 50% of the military gone. The rest would surrender faster than the french and belgium armies put together.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Dictator #101: Control the Media.





> CARACAS, Venezuela — Turn on the TV or open a paper in New York, London or Buenos Aires these days, and chances are that the latest in the showdown between socialist President Nicolas Maduro and opposition leader Juan Guaido will feature prominently, with Mr. Guaido’s return to Venezuela to resume the power struggle Monday just the latest twist in the drama.
> 
> 
> Not so in Venezuela, where the news that local residents watch and read largely depends on the whims of a regime that would rather not have them ponder whether they truly live in the democratic workers’ paradise that Mr. Maduro’s “Bolivarian revolution” has bestowed upon them.
> 
> News coverage on Venevision or Globovision is as trite as it is predictable: “President Maduro talks with Cuba and Colombia”; “Distribution of carnival bonus begins”; and “[Foreign Minister] Diosdado Cabello assures government had a ‘great victory’ on Feb. 23” were among the “highlights” one day last week as the government tottered, world powers weighed in, and protesters filled the squares and streets of the capital.
> 
> With independent newscasters such as CNN en Espanol long off the grid, even the Venezuela Aid Live concert on Friday proved too much for censors. The feared National Telecommunications Commission(Conatel), quickly blacked out offending cable channels’ signals.
> 
> ...

----------


## Klondyke

It's heart-breaking to learn how some (please no names here) are concerned about the strive of Venezuela people to get a real democratic leader at last who will ensure that the population will no longer starve in the future and they will enjoy a fair profit from their (oil) resources...

----------


## Texpat

Has the invasion started yet, Klong dyke?
 ::chitown::

----------


## Boon Mee

> Has the invasion started yet, Klong dyke?


Breadline Bernie is leading the charge!  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

I thought they had to invade Iran first?

----------


## OhOh

> Does it not make you think at all that his cosying up to the military is the only thing keeping that fat dictator in power?


You may wish to read their constitution.




> If he was any sort of leader he would test his popularity with free and fair elections.


I presume you would be happy to have an election every month, until your candidate was elected. Some ameristanis have similar ideas of,  "free, democratic elections". 

I didn't win boo, hoo. I demand another, another and  another!!!!!  Until I I I I I I I I  win. Losers are losers , get on with things.Trya when the nextelection islegaly called, According to the constitution there are timetables to be adhered too.




> If he did so there could be no legitimate opposition to him, but of course all his shannanigans have been done to keep him in power regardless of the wants of the populace.


Their constitution says otherwise. But hey who actually bases their actions on a silly constitution, unexceptional countries ignore theirs, time, after time, after after ,time.




> Has the invasion started yet, Klong dyke?


Keep up, it started years ago. One, two, three, presidents ago.

----------


## Klondyke

> On average, during 2018, an estimated 5,000 people left Venezuela every day in search of protection or a better life.


Another heart-breaking sorrow of some (please no names here) when a population leaves their country in "_search of better life"_. Haven't we learned here recently that some 70,000 UK people live in Thailand?  And that's officially documented, perhaps unofficially it's some 100,000? 

Only in Thailand. How much it accounts around the world? Few millions?

Any figures about e.g. US citizens leaving their country? However, it's surely not _"in search of better life",_ but perhaps in search of e.g. better food, or better wife, or better democracy, or you name it... 

Just curious how different citizens are differently measured...(it has a name, something about double something...)

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You may wish to read their constitution.


*Cough* HIS constitution.

----------


## OhOh

One suspects their parliament had a vote or some such reasoning. All clearly and legally  laid out in the democratically create constitution.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> One suspects their parliament had a vote or some such reasoning. All clearly and legally  laid out in the democratically create constitution.


Yeah, you see you "suspecting" something is akin to anyone else taking the wildest of guesses.

Chavismo long ago hijacked the rights to make the constitution and gave it to the cronies that he put in power.

It's what dictators do.

----------


## OhOh

Thank you for confirming that the correct process was used to modify, if at all, the constitution. Again as required by the existing constitution, that any modifications were duly voted on, by those allowed to vote.

Good to see a countries politicians actually utilising their constitution fully and modifying it, by introducing any proposed amendments, and after them being discussed/debated and voted on, in the proper manner.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Thank you for confirming that the correct process was used to modify, if at all, the constitution. Again as required by the existing constitution, that any modifications were duly voted on, by those allowed to vote.
> 
> Good to see a countries politicians actually utilising their constitution fully and modifying it, by introducing any proposed amendments, and after them being discussed/debated and voted on, in the proper manner.


I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

----------


## Klondyke

(How comforting for the Venezuela people that they have somebody at their gates who knows how to help to poor Latino...) 

*US threatens ‘secondary sanctions’ against those who refuse to back its Venezuela coup

*
Elliott Abrams next to Colombian President Ivan Duque at the border with Venezuela. 

With the vast majority of the world still seeing Nicolas Maduro as the legitimate leader of Venezuela, America’s hawkish special envoy has hinted that Washington might sanction third parties that defy the US regime-change efforts.

The international community must choose sides wisely in the Venezuelan conflict, the curator of US intervention in the Latin American country, special envoy Elliott Abrams, suggested on Tuesday, noting that Washington would not limit itself to economic sanctions just against the Maduro government, but against all who chose to support him.

“Secondary sanctions, it’s clearly a possibility,” Abrams said at a press conference, warning that a decision to sanction third party countries “would depend on the conduct of the [Venezuelan] regime over time.”

So far some 54 countries have bowed to US pressure and recognized the self-proclaimed ‘interim president’ Juan Guaido, who since January has been rallying support for regime change. Whilst the US claims the “momentum is good” to get more countries on board, the majority of the world’s countries and population rejected Washington’s “imperialist” ambitions, Colin Cavell, associate professor of political science at Bluefield State College, told RT.

The US administration is “internationalizing the Venezuelan conflict on a very dangerous basis... threatening other countries who deal with Venezuela, saying that if you do not support our sanctions, we are going to impose sanctions on you,” Cavell explained.

Sanctioning governments across the globe for backing Maduro over Guaido not only violates the international law but highlights the brazen interference of the US in the affairs of a sovereign nation. Furthermore, the academic believes, the US administration seems to be acting under the assumption that “if there’s more pain on the Venezuelan people” then they will rise up and “overthrow” their government.

“Three-quarters of the world's countries are siding with the elected government, the democratic government of Venezuela and that includes the largest countries in the world, China and Russia,” Cavell concluded. “So despite what Donald Trump says internally to keep in power domestically, the world is watching very closely this imperial aggression in Venezuela.”

https://www.rt.com/news/453114-us-th...ons-venezuela/

----------


## harrybarracuda

'Conflict or submission' in Venezuela power struggle

Juan Guaido's popularity is increasing but China and Russia are helping to keep the socialist leader Nicolas Maduro in power.
By Stuart Ramsay, chief correspondent, in Venezuela

Tuesday 5 March 2019 22:07, UK

Grinning from cheek to cheek and standing on a stage in front of tens of thousands of supporters, Juan Guaido reached into a pocket and brandished his Venezuelan passport with a flourish.

"You were worried about my passport? Here is my passport, it's safe!" he said, as the crowd roared their approval.

A couple of hours earlier he had walked through passport control at Simon Bolivar airport like any other traveller arriving on a commercial flight to the capital Caracas, he emerged to screams of delight from supporters in the arrival hall.

The question asked by many here is simple - why wasn't he arrested?

At the airport a number of European diplomats and the United States Charge d'affairs had come to "observe" Guaido's return.

When asked what they were "observing" one confirmed they were there to ensure that the "constitutional requirements" around Guaido were not broken.

Basically, as speaker of the national assembly here, Juan Guaido is immune from prosecution unless a whole set of supreme court hearings and decisions are passed removing his immunity.

It's rumoured here, and trust me there are many rumours, that the supreme court couldn't actually get enough judges to a meeting to have a quorum to pass the issuing of an arrest warrant for Guaido.

True or not, there doesn't appear to be an arrest warrant anyone knows about and, even if there was, the diplomats were there to witness the arrest and would report immediately to their respective governments.

The United States has already warned of a "significant response" to any detention of Guaido.

But regardless of arrest warrants or anything else it is worth remembering that he had left the country in secret despite a court ruling forbidding foreign travel.

He had flown around South American countries drumming up more support from international leaders and he continues to call for the removal of Nicolas Maduro and the collective mutiny of the security services here.

In Venezuela that gets you banged up for sure.

But he wasn't.

The immigration authorities did nothing and stamped his passport, local police officers were seen clapping Guaido's arrival and the feared national guard, one of Maduro's three hardline enforcing forces, didn't intervene at all.

Is this significant?

Well it could be a sign that the authority of the government is diminishing, the growing popularity of Guaido is persuading law officers to just leave it to someone else to take the flak or that the security apparatus is slowly rupturing.

Certainly more military personnel on the border with Colombia have deserted.

Around 600 have crossed over so far.

Guaido is definitely very popular and that is growing: a recent poll here showed he would win 70% of votes if free elections were held.

So it could be all of the above.

A political adviser and doctor of political sciences here agreed to speak to me on condition of anonymity to explain the opposition's own analysis of what is going on.

In essence there are two points of view.

First, the most optimistic, is that there is what they call a "progressive breakdown" in the government.

The international pressure and, much more importantly, US-targeted sanctions, are slowly but surely crippling the Maduro regime hierarchy.

"We don't know all the judges, the generals, the ministers and what they get up to, but the United States does," she told me.

"The sanctions will be hitting them hard because the US knows where the money is, who they deal with, who they are related to. They can make life very difficult," she added.

Certainly the United States favours sanctions and it's a tried and tested weapon around the world.

But attempting to undermine the foundations of a system in the belief that the whole system will fall down either takes a long time or won't work.

The second, and considerably less optimistic, view is that the government IS feeling pressure from the international community and is attempting to avoid a major confrontation by arresting Guaido and locking him up, but that is because they don't actually fear him at all.

He is a nuisance and the rallies are annoying but nothing has changed.

"It could be a sign of weakness but it probably isn't," the adviser continued.

"The government knows its resources and its strengths and they know how to use it to stay in power.

"Chavez was a master at it. There were always problems but he dealt with them. These people know what they are doing," she said.

While much of the international community is supporting Juan Guaido, Russia and China are not.

They are supporting Maduro, and even if they don't give him all the money he would like, they are extending a credit line that can easily keep him operating for now.

Their advisers, I would suspect, are telling him to weather the storm.

It has worked in Syria if one needs an example.

So how does this move on?

At the current rate it is stalemate.

More rallies, thousands on the street - so what?

With the military on board Maduro is safe.

Some of the opposition believe that the demonstrations must target military institutions and must inevitably turn violent; basically they are arguing there is no revolution without blood.

I don't think the opposition is there yet.

But as a senior member put it to me: "It's conflict or submission."

https://news.sky.com/story/its-conflict-or-submission-in-venezuela-power-struggle-11656153

----------


## The Shining Light

> Juan Guaido's popularity is increasing amongst the globalist elite, but China and Russia are helping to keep the socialist leader Nicolas Maduro in power.






> Grinning from cheek to cheek and standing on a stage in front of tens of thousands of supporters, Juan Guaido reached into a pocket and brandished his US dollars given to him by his warmongering Americunt masters.


FTFY.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> FTFY.


You're probably right. And if he buys food with it they'll love him even more.

----------


## Texpat

Where are the invasion pics, Klong dyke?

 ::chitown::

----------


## headhunter

what the hell is goner happen this weekend,guaido had already organized a protest rally for SAT. now since his trips abroad and he is back on home soil,MADURO has called for his supporters to do the same this Saturday.surely this is goner be WAR.

----------


## Pragmatic

> If you encounter a roadblock, turn around and get to a safe area.


 Somewhat similar as to what the Thais do.   :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> what the hell is goner happen this weekend,guaido had already organized a protest rally for SAT. now since his trips abroad and he is back on home soil,MADURO has called for his supporters to do the same this Saturday.surely this is goner be WAR.



That's a cunning plan. Chavismo can take pictures of Guiado's supporters and claim they're his.

----------


## Klondyke

> That's a cunning plan. Chavismo can take pictures of Guiado's supporters and claim they're his.


and vice versa....

----------


## harrybarracuda

CARACAS, Venezuela — Much of Venezuela remained engulfed by darkness early Friday amid one of the largest power outages in years, a problem President Nicolas Maduro's government quickly blamed on "sabotage" at a hydroelectric dam.


The blackout hit 22 of 23 states, according to the Associated Press. It struck the capital Caracas, which until now has been spared the worst of a collapse in the nation's grid, at the peak of rush hour.


Venezuela's socialist government blasted the outage as an "electrical war" directed by the United States.

Blackouts are frequent in Venezuela, where the economy is collapsing under hyperinflation, with chronic shortages of food and medicine and a mass emigration of more than 3 million citizens.


Critics say corruption and under investment have left the country's power grid unable to function, while Maduro says the problems are intentionally created by political adversaries.

Communications Minister Jorge Rodriguez said right-wing extremists intent on causing pandemonium in Venezuela and taking orders from Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio were behind the blackout, although he offered no proof.

State-owned electricity operator Corpoelec blamed the outage on act of "sabotage" at the Guri Dam, one of the world's largest hydroelectric stations and the cornerstone of Venezuela's electrical grid. Rodriguez described it as a "cyber" attack intended to derail the whole system. He said electricity in Venezuela's eastern region had been restored within two hours.

Thousands of commuters flooded into the streets because subway service was stopped. A snarl of cars jammed the streets amid confusion generated by blackened stoplights. Others had to walk long distances to get home.

"The person responsible for this is named Nicolas Maduro," said Pedro Fernandez, 44, a systems engineer in the Altamira neighborhood of Caracas, on his way by foot to the other side of town. "This is just the tip of the iceberg given all the things we're suffering."

The outage comes as Venezuela is in the throes of a political struggle between Maduro and opposition leader Juan Guaidó, the head of congress who declared himself the nation's rightful president in January and is recognized by the United States and about 50 nations.
Guaidó took to Twitter to blast Maduro for the outage.

"How do you tell a mom who needs to cook, an ill person who depends on a machine, a worker who should be laboring that we are in a powerful country without electricity?" he wrote.

Venezuela's electrical system was once the envy of Latin America but it has fallen into a state of disrepair after years of poor maintenance and mismanagement. High-ranking officials have been accused in U.S. court proceedings of looting government money earmarked for the electrical system.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/...rkness-n980841

----------


## foobar

> ..... a "cyber" attack intended to derail the whole system.


No doubt you will claim the US got the appropriate court order?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> No doubt you will claim the US got the appropriate court order?


So it's likely that an ageing Venezuelan electical system that has a history of breaking down because Chavismo's cronies have been stealing the cash meant for maintenance has been the victim of a "cyber attack", is it?

You are high on the list of forum idiots.

----------


## Texpat

American F-22s strafing Miraflores Palace? Got any pics? Any links? No?  ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

> has been the victim of a "cyber attack"


Pretty sure the "Cyber attack" code will be littered with русский and 中文 calls/links.  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> So it's likely


You do know the phrase nowadays is "highly likely", please keep up.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Pretty sure the "Cyber attack" code will be littered with русский and 中文 calls/links.


Pretty sure there is no cyberattack at all and it's just broken down like everything else in Venezuela.

----------


## foobar

> So it's likely that an ageing Venezuelan electical system that has a history of breaking down because Chavismo's cronies have been stealing the cash meant for maintenance has been the victim of a "cyber attack", is it?


The US also has a history of sabotage and launching cyber attacks on energy assets within countries that don't bow down and submit to their international protection racket ...so your notion of "likely" is incredibly skewed.

But hey, all ok in your book as long as the US filed the appropriate court order right?  :Smile: 





> You are high on the list of forum idiots.


If by "idiot" you mean I know how to spell "electrical" then yes, guilty as charged.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The US also has a history of sabotage and launching cyber attacks on energy assets within countries that don't bow down and submit to their international protection racket ...so your notion of "likely" is incredibly skewed.


Please list this lengthy history.

I'm all ears.




> If by "idiot" you mean I know how to spell "electrical" then yes, guilty as charged.


No, by idiot I mean a simpleton who hasn't got a fucking clue.

----------


## harrybarracuda



----------


## foobar

^Oh noes, the ol _babies being tossed out of incubators_...
----



> Please list this lengthy history.
> 
> I'm all ears.


So by adding the word "lengthy" it means you admit the US does have a previous history of launching cyber attacks on countries that don't bow down to their international protection racket?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^Oh noes, the ol _babies being tossed out of incubators_...
> ----
> 
> 
> So by adding the word "lengthy" it means you admit the US does have a previous history of launching cyber attacks on countries that don't bow down to their international protection racket?


I'm going to give you a little lesson, you stupid boy. When you can't answer, just admit that you're wrong.

There is one, and only one, ICS attack that has American fingerprints: Stuxnet. Which was used to blow up Iran's nuclear centrifuges.

Now, as for the rest, take a wild fucking guess who came up with those and who has been hit by them, you stupid, stupid little boy.

----------


## harrybarracuda

P.S. People in Venezuela are dying of cancer because there are no drugs.

Have some fucking respect, you low rent piece of shit, or at least watch the report. you might learn something.

----------


## Klondyke

> an ageing Venezuelan electical system that has a history of breaking down because


So, why not to allow the self-proclaimed wonder-president who would surely know how to exchange a burned fuse...  
And Westinghouse will surely help...

----------


## Texpat

American tanks rollin' yet?  ::chitown::

----------


## lom

> American tanks rollin' yet?


They've ran out of fuel..

----------


## harrybarracuda

> They've ran out of fuel..


And it's too dark to see where they're going.

----------


## Klondyke

Unfortunately, some other oppressed population on the other side of the world has to wait a bit on their turn to be helped from their dictators.  

Probably it is taken sequentially in the alphabetic order, therefore some will have to wait, we are at the letter V only: 

-the Algerians daily protesting against their old man at helm (in his wheelchair) for some 30 years, 
-similarly the Albanians (or did I mixed them with Alabamanians?  :Smile:  ), 
-the Afghaniens has been already taken very care of... 

(So, the poor FrenchYellow Vests will have to wait a bit.)

(hopefully, no problem in Zimbabwe and Zanzibar)...

----------


## foobar

> ICS attack that has American fingerprints: Stuxnet.


Thanks for confirming the US _does_ have a history of launching cyber attacks on countries that don't bow down to their international protection racket.

I knew you would get there in the end, you just needed a little prodding and manipulation...




> State-owned electricity operator Corpoelec blamed the outage on act of  "sabotage" at the Guri Dam, one of the world's largest hydroelectric  stations and the cornerstone of Venezuela's electrical grid. Rodriguez  described it as *a "cyber" attack intended to derail the whole system.*

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Thanks for confirming the US _does_ have a history of launching cyber attack_s_ on _countries_


So a history of *one* then.

You fucking idiot.

 :rofl:

----------


## foobar

The US has launched cyber attacks on 100s of countries via Prism/NSA ..as you well know.

Just ask the NSA ex-employee Ed Snowden who blew the whistle and now exiled to Russia.

----------


## Texpat

Has the U.S. Naval bombardment begun yet to soften up the targets for the imminent invasion?  ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

> NSA ex-employee Ed Snowden


Along with the ameristani guy who was stabbed to death in the "street robbery", whose wallet and expensive watch were left behind.

----------


## OhOh

> Has the U.S. Naval bombardment


The use of visible military equipment, as you know, leads to them becoming targeted and possibly attacked. Much better to use all the "hidden hands"initially, establish doubt and claim innocence. History and investigation will reveal all, eventually. :Smile:

----------


## Texpat

Do you hear helicopters?

I think the US should send some "virtual" humanitarian relief. You know ... some imaginary food, some hypothetical baby formula, a couple boatloads of pretend power generators, and a few planeloads full of best wishes. 

That'll do it.

----------


## Klondyke

(A bit different explanation of the problem) *

Presstitutes Turn Blind Eye to UN Report on Venezuela*
Washington and the Convict Appointed to Overthrow Venezuela Continue the Lies
Paul Craig Roberts.

Don’t you think something is fishy when the presstitutes orchestrate a fake news “humanitarian crisis” in Venezuela, but totally ignore the real humanitarian crises in Yemen and Gaza?  

Don’t you think something is really very rotten when the expert, Alfred Maurice de Zayas,  sent by the UN to Venezuela to evaluate the situation finds no interest by any Western media or any Western government in his report?

Don’t you think it is a bit much for Washington to steal $21 billion of Venezuela’s money, impose sanctions in an effort to destabilize the country and to drive the Venezuelan government to its knees, blame Venezuelan socialism (essentially nationalization of the oil company) for bringing “starvation to the people,” and offer a measly $21 million in “humanitarian aid.”

As the United States is completely devoid of any print or TV media, it falls upon internet media such as this website to perform the missing function of honest journalism.  

As for the alleged starvation and humanitarian crisis in Venezuela, Zayas has this to say:

The December 2017 and March 2018 reports of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN (FAO) list food crises in 37 countries. “The Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela is not among them.”

“In 2017, the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela requested medical aid from the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, the plea was rejected, because Venezuela ‘is still a high-income country … and as such is not eligible’.”

The “crisis” in Venezuela “cannot be compared with the humanitarian crises in Gaza, Yemen, Libya, the Syrian Arab Republic, Iraq, Haiti, Mali, the Central African Republic, South Sudan, Somalia, or Myanmar, among others.”

---

“Despite being the first UN official to visit and report from Venezuela in 21 years, Mr de Zayas said his research into the causes of the country’s economic crisis has so far largely been ignored by the UN and the media, and caused little debate within the Human Rights Council.

“He believes his report has been ignored because it goes against the popular narrative that Venezuela needs regime change.”   https://off-guardian.org/2019/02/09/...out-venezuela/ 

Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world and an abundance of other natural resources including gold, bauxite and coltan. But under the Maduro government they’re not accessible to US and transnational corporations.

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...a/Presstitutes Turn Blind Eye to UN Report on Venezuela

----------


## harrybarracuda

Chavismo attempts to stop protests....



Chavismo fails.



Chavismo needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido on Saturday called on citizens nationwide to travel to the capital Caracas for a protest against socialist President Nicolas Maduro, as the country’s worst blackout in decades dragged on for a third day.


Addressing supporters in southwestern Caracas, Guaido - the leader of the opposition-run congress who invoked the constitution to assume an interim presidency in January - said Maduro’s government “has no way to solve the electricity crisis that they themselves created.”


“All of Venezuela, to Caracas!” Guaido yelled while standing atop a bridge, without saying when the planned protest would be held. “The days ahead will be difficult, thanks to the regime.”


Activists had scuffled with police and troops ahead of the rally, meant to pressure Maduro amid the blackout, which the governing Socialist Party called an act of U.S.-sponsored sabotage but opposition critics derided as the result of two decades of mismanagement and corruption.


Dozens of demonstrators attempted to walk along an avenue in Caracas but were moved onto the sidewalk by police in riot gear, leading them to shout at the officers and push on their riot shields. One woman was sprayed with pepper spray, according to a local broadcaster.


The power flickered on and off in parts of Caracas on Saturday morning, including the presidential palace of Miraflores, according to Reuters witnesses. Six of the country’s 23 states still lacked power as of Saturday afternoon, Socialist Party Vice President Diosdado Cabello said on state television.


“We’re all upset that we’ve got no power, no phone service, no water and they want to block us,” said Rossmary Nascimiento, 45, a nutritionist at the Caracas rally. “I want a normal country.”


At a competing march organized by the Socialist Party to protest what it calls U.S. imperialism, Maduro blamed the outages on “electromagnetic and cyber attacks directed from abroad by the empire.”


“The right wing, together with the empire, has stabbed the electricity system, and we are trying to cure it soon,” he said.


Several hundred people gathered at the rally in central Caracas for a march to denounce the crippling U.S. oil sanctions aimed at cutting off the Maduro government’s funding sources.


“We’re here, we’re mobilized, because we’re not going to let the gringos take over,” said Elbadina Gomez, 76, who works for an activist group linked to the Socialist Party.


CLINICS IDLE


Julio Castro, a doctor and member of a nongovernmental organization called Doctors For Health, tweeted that a total of 17 people had died during the blackout, including nine deaths in emergency rooms.


Reuters was unable to independently confirm the deaths or whether they could have resulted from the blackout. The Information Ministry did not respond to a request for comment.


Clinics in the sweltering western state of Zulia, which suffers chronic regional blackouts, had scaled back operations after nearly 72 hours without power.


“We’re not offering services and we don’t have any patients staying here because the generator is not working,” said Chiquinquira Caldera, head of administration at the San Lucas clinic in the city of Maracaibo, as she played a game of Chinese checkers with doctors who were waiting for power to return.


Venezuela, already suffering from hyperinflation and shortages of basic goods, has been mired in a major political crisis since Guaido assumed the interim presidency in January, calling Maduro a usurper following the 2018 election, which Maduro won but was widely considered fraudulent.


Maduro says Guaido is a puppet of Washington and dismisses his claim to the presidency as an effort by the administration of U.S. President Donald Trump to control Venezuela’s oil wealth.


Former mayor and exiled opposition activist Antonio Ledezma on Saturday called on Guaido to seek United Nations intervention in Venezuela by invoking a principle known as “responsibility to protect.”


The U.N. doctrine sometimes referred to as R2P was created to prevent mass killings such as those of Rwanda and Bosnia and places the onus on the international community to protect populations from crimes against humanity and ethnic cleansing.


“President @jguaido, (you should) formally request Humanitarian Intervention, applying the concept of R2P, to stop extermination, genocide and destruction of what’s left of our country,” Ledezma wrote via Twitter.


At the opposition rally, Guaido said he would not invoke an article of the Venezuelan constitution allowing the congress to authorize foreign military operations within Venezuela “until we have to.”


“Article 187 when the time comes,” Guaido said. “We need to be in the streets, mobilized. It depends on us, not on anybody else.”


Trump has said that a “military option” is on the table with regard to Venezuela, but Latin American neighbors have emphatically opposed a U.S. intervention as a way of addressing the situation.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/worl...e-of-blackout/

----------


## OhOh

> You know ... some imaginary food, some hypothetical baby formula, a couple boatloads of pretend power generators, and a few planeloads full of best wishes.
> 
> That'll do it.


It; as we see in so many "announcements", from ameristani "leaders", of all descriptions. Nothing will ever get delivered. 

The sea-born route is closed, the overland route closed. Possibly teleporting is now available to ameristan from their "Space Force", ah but they don't have rockets able to lift and deploy anything other than nuclear bombs. 

Such planning and execution will be a standard week long subject in military schools of the future. How to promise the world and deliver zero. 




> Chavismo attempts to stop protests....


Sky News the voice of truth, eh

I'll take your word that the long shot of the "protesters" were not long shots of the "supporters". The film is yesterdays not last years .... Sky News has previous on such "errors"

I do notice that where the ageing SN reporter is visible, all the shots are low level and no long shots, to assist us to judge his assertions or was he hiding the truth?

A lack of anything, the water cannon, snatch squads, coach loads participants being held on highways outside the cities, of tear gas, live rounds ....... actually being used. As per France and the UK whenever they have "crowds" to manage.

----------


## SKkin

> Don’t you think something is really very rotten when the expert, Alfred Maurice de Zayas, sent by the UN to Venezuela to evaluate the situation finds no interest by any Western media or any Western government in his report?


We've been informed by the thread "expert" that de Zayas is a "twat."


Speaking of which...




> Chavismo fails.


Not seeing much starvation going on in that pic harry...

 ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> We've been informed by the thread "expert" that de Zayas is a "twat."


With supporting evidence which you've chosen not to post.





> Speaking of which...
> 
> Not seeing much starvation going on in that pic harry...


You didn't see them before.....


Added: From a year ago; I'm guessing the 3 million that have fled the country were in the 60%.





> The annual survey, published on Wednesday by three universities, is one of the most closely-followed assessments of Venezuelans’ well being amid a government information vacuum and shows a steady rise in poverty and hunger in recent years.
> 
> Over 60 percent of Venezuelans surveyed said that during the previous three months they had woken up hungry because they did not have enough money to buy food. About a quarter of the population was eating two or less meals a day, the study showed.
> 
> 
> Last year, the three universities found that Venezuelans said they had lost an average of 8 kilograms during 2016. This time, the study’s dozen investigators surveyed 6,168 Venezuelans between the ages of 20 and 65 across the country of 30 million people.
> 
> After winning the presidency in 1999, leftist President Hugo Chavez was proud of improving Venezuela’s social indicators due to oil-fueled welfare policies. But his successor President Nicolas Maduro’s rule since 2013 has coincided with a deep recession, due to failed state-led economic policies and the plunge in global oil prices.
> 
> ...

----------


## Klondyke

> You didn't see them before.....


'arry saw them before...

 
Or did he see it on another side of the world?

----------


## OhOh

*Venezuela - Three Total Blackouts In Three Days - Government Presumes U.S. Cyberattack*


https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/03/venezuela-three-total-blackouts-in-three-days-government-presumes-us-cyberattack.html#comments

Some of the post:

_"It is quite possible or even likely that the U.S. is causing these incidents. But it is not certain."_


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northe...ackout_of_2003


_"When the northeast blackout happened no one blamed President Bush or socialism for the outage."_


https://www.dw.com/en/venezuela-us-indicts-top-regime-official-tareck-el-aissami/a-47832662


_"When the first outage happened U.S. Senator Marco Rubio eagerly  mocked the government of Venezuela. He also mentioned that some backup  generators failed:_ _Marco Rubio @marcorubio - 22:18 utc - 7 Mar 2019
ALERT: Reports of a complete power outage all across #Venezuela at this moment. 
18 of 23 states & the capital district are currently facing complete blackouts. 
Main airport also without power & backup generators have failed.
#MaduroRegime is a complete disaster.__After the first outage the government of Venezuela said that it was caused by a cyberattack on the automated control system but gave no further details:__Communications Minister Jorge Rodriguez said Maduro's  government planned to bring "proof" of US involvement in the blackout to  a UN Human Rights envoy who is set to visit the country in the coming  days.__Rodriguez pointed to the Rubio tweet:__'How did Marco Rubio know that backup generators had failed?  At that time, no one knew that,' the Bolivarian government official  asked."


"The U.S. is well know for cyberattacks as well as for attacks on electricity networks

__In preparation for the 1973 coup against Allende in Chile the U.S. also caused blackouts. Back then the New York Times reported:_

_SANTIAGO, Chile, Aug. 13 — A power cut brought a total  blackout here as President Salvador Allende Gossens was in the middle of  a nationwide address on the country's political crisis. 
...
The  electricity went off at 10:15 P.M., 35 minutes after President Allende  had begun to speak, citing long list of recent acts of terrorism and  sabotage that he attributed to “fascist opposition.”_ _He went back on the air, The Associated Press reported, as power was  beginning to be restored in some areas, and said that the blackout could  have been either “a technically explicable failure or a fascist  attack.” The news agency said that unidentified saboteurs blew up an electric‐power transmission line outside the city, attributing the information to Fernando Figueroa, general manager of the state power system.

_
_It wasn't just the "fascist opposition" but the CIA behind it that caused the chaos:_
_As described in the Church Committee report, the CIA was  involved in multiple plots designed to remove Allende .. [...] [T]he  CIA, with the approval of the 40 Committee, attempted to bribe the  Chilean legislature, tried to influence public opinion against Allende,  and provided funding to strikes designed to coerce him into resigning.  [...] In addition, the CIA gave extensive support for black propaganda  against Allende, channeled mostly through El Mercurio. Financial  assistance was also given to Allende's political opponents, and for  organizing strikes and unrest to destabilize the government."


__"Attacks on electricity networks affect the civilian population.  Hospitals are hard to run without electricity. Lives are endangered.  Both , the Obama and the Trump administration, rejected international attempts to ban cyberattacks that "indiscriminate or systemic harm to individuals and critical infrastructure":
_
_All members of the European Union signed the agreement. Australia and Turkey joined the United States in declining.
...
Israel,  which along with the United States conducted the most sophisticated  cyberattack in history, the Stuxnet attack on Iran’s nuclear enrichment  program, also declined to sign."
__"The U.S. also rejected an agreement that would ban cyber manipulation of elections. The given reasons are of interest:
_
_ [T]he United States has interfered in foreign elections  before, including Italy in the 1940s and Iran and Latin America in the  1950s and 1960s, and some officials say that no American president should be forced to give up that tool if it could prevent a war. Similarly, the Pentagon worries about commitments to avoid using cyberattacks as a prelude to military action. The United States had a secret program, code-named “Nitro Zeus,” which called for turning off the power grid in much of Iran if the two countries had found themselves in a conflict over Iran’s nuclear program. Such a use of cyberweapons is now "_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitro_Zeus


One hopes all the incubator babies, anyone being operated on or people on blood cleaning systems have survived.

----------


## harrybarracuda

It would be very easy to prove that they were a victim of this imaginary cyberattack.

Which is precisely why they can't do it.

 :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _How did Marco Rubio know that backup generators had failed? At that time, no one knew that,' the Bolivarian government official asked."_


If he knew the airport was out of power, it's fairly fucking obvious that the backup generators never kicked in.

Jaysus, what sort of thick cuntos do they think they are talking to?




Oh. 

Oh Oh.

 :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

*346. Paper Prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency for the Standing                         Group of the National Security Council*


*Proposed Covert Policy and Integrated Program of Action towards                             Cuba*_I. Introduction

__1. Submitted herewith is a covert program for Cuba within CIA's capabilities. Some parts of the program                         have already been approved and are being implemented. Being closely                         inter-related, the total cumulative impact of the courses of action set                         forth in this program is dependent upon the simultaneous coordinated                         execution of the individual courses of action.
_
_                     2. This program is based on the assumption that current U.S. policy does not                         contemplate outright military intervention in Cuba or a provocation which                         can be used as a pretext for an invasion of Cuba by United States military                         forces. It is further assumed that U.S. policy calls for the exertion of                         maximum pressure by all means available to the U.S. Government, short of                         military intervention, to prevent the pacification of the population and the                         consolidation of the Castro/Communist regime. The                         ultimate objective of this policy would be to encourage dissident elements                         in the military and other power centers of the regime to bring about the                         eventual liquidation of the Castro/Communist entourage                         and the elimination of the Soviet presence from Cuba

__4. Within the context of the policy assumptions and estimate of the situation                         in Cuba outlined above, CIA submits a                         program consisting of the following interdependent courses of action: [Page 830]
_ 
_A.     Covert collection of intelligence, both for U.S. strategic                                 requirements as well as for operational requirements.
__B._ _Propaganda actions to stimulate low-risk simple sabotage and other                                 forms of active and passive resistance.
__C._ _Exploitation and stimulation of disaffection in the Cuban military                                 and other power centers.
__D._ _Economic denial actions on an increased basis.
__E._ _General sabotage and harassment.
__F._ _Support of autonomous anti-Castro Cuban groups to supplement and                                 assist in the execution of the above courses of action.
__
 Covert propaganda actions are designed to produce a                         psychological climate in Cuba conducive to the accomplishment of the other                         courses of action in the integrated covert program. Only after the effects                         of economic denial and sabotage actions are deeply felt by the populace and                         the elite groups can one hope to convert disaffection in the armed forces                         and other power centers of the regime into militant revolt against the                             Castro/Communist entourage. It is also at this                         point where CIA-controlled and autonomous                         activist elements in the Cuban exile community can begin to assume genuine                         resistance proportions

B. Propaganda actions to stimulate low-risk simple sabotage                             and other forms of active and passive resistance.

__C. Exploitation and stimulation of disaffection in the                             Cuban military and other power centers.
_
_                     We are undertaking an intensive probing effort to identify, seek out and                         establish channels of communication with disaffected and potentially                         dissident non-Communist elements in the power centers of the regime,                         particularly in the armed forces hierarchy. The objective is to promote the                         fragmentation of the regime and possibly lead to an internal coup which                         would dislodge Castro and his entourage, and make it                         possible to eliminate the Cuban Communists from positions of power and force                         the withdrawal of the Soviet military presence and the termination of its                         economic aid. Several promising operations are already underway

__D. Economic denial actions.
_
_Overt official U.S. economic sanctions in conjunction with covert economic                         denial operations (such as denial of [less than 1 line of                             source text not declassified]) is causing a marked adverse effect                         on the Cuban economy. For maximum impact on the Cuban economy this effort                         must be coordinated with sabotage operations

__It must be recognized that no single act of sabotage by itself can materially                         affect the economy or stimulate significant resistance. However, it is our                         opinion that a well-planned series of sabotage efforts, properly executed,                         would in time produce the effect we seek. Each action will have its dangers:                         there will be failures with consequent loss of life and charges of                         attribution to the United States resulting in criticism at home and abroad.                         None of these expected consequences should cause us to change our course if                         the program as outlined can be expected to be successful.
_
_Annex A is an elaboration of a proposed sabotage and harassment program                         against Cuba.
_
_Annex A
_
*SUBJECT*_

Sabotage/Harassment Program
_
_The broad target categories against which the sabotage/harassment                             operations would be mounted and a preliminary evaluation of their                             effect, can be summarized as follows:

__A. Electric Power
_
_Disruption of any of the existing power grids which might be effected by                             damage to or destruction of the generating facilities or of the critical                             sub-stations in the distribution network, would significantly weaken the                             existing economic and social structure, particularly in view of the fact                             that in many areas the power now available is not adequate to meet the                             demands of industrial and public consumers. Smaller acts of [Page 833]sabotage/harassment by the populace                             such as throwing chains over high tension lines to short them out, would                             also exacerbate the current power shortage, and the cumulative effect of                             all such actions could cause a prolonged breakdown of the power system                             as there is already a shortage of spare parts and replacement                             materiels.
_
_B. Petroleum, Oil and Lubricants (POL)
_
_Damage to or destruction of POL                             production and/or storage facilities would seriously affect almost all                             aspects of the Cuban economy. The electric power industry depends almost                             entirely upon POL as fuel for the                             generating plants and the sugar industry depends upon POL powered                             processing and transportation facilities as does all intra-province                             transportation. Production and storage facilities are susceptible to                             external attacks by heavy weapons or by more subtle methods if internal                             assets having an appropriate degree of accessibility can be developed.                             The loss of refining facilities could be offset by increased Bloc                             shipments of refined products but such a shift would require a period of                             readjustment during which there would be a heavy strain on the Cuban                             economy. An additional burden on the Bloc refining capacity would also                             exist until Cuba's refining capacity is restored."
_
Complete document can be read here:

https://history.state.gov/historical...961-63v11/d346

Substitute Venezuela and it's the same failed play-book.

Cuba held out, as Venezuela is, currently and has done for a number of years.

----------


## Klondyke

Anyway, it's comforting to know that no meddling occurs in the Venezuela crisis, as usually the dangerous Mr. P. exercises around the world, especially in (please no names here)...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> *346. Paper Prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency for the Standing                         Group of the National Security Council*


.... 50+ years ago.

They probably had plans to sabotage their horses and carts and windmills, too.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## The Shining Light

"37. Modern-day economic sanctions and blockades are comparable with medieval sieges of towns with the intention of forcing them to surrender. Twenty-first century sanctions attempt to bring not just a town, but sovereign countries to their knees. A difference, perhaps, is that twenty-first century sanctions are accompanied by the manipulation of public opinion through “fake news”, aggressive public relations and a pseudo-human rights rhetoric so as to give the impression that a human rights “end” justifies the criminal means. There is not only a horizontal juridical world order governed by the Charter of the United Nations and principles of sovereign equality, but also a vertical world order reflecting the hierarchy of a geopolitical system that links dominant States with the rest of the world according to military and economic power. It is the latter,geopolitical system that generates geopolitical crimes, hitherto in total impunity. It is reported that the United States is currently training foreign lawyers in how to draft legislation to impose further sanctions on the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela in an effort to asphyxiate Venezuelan State institutions."

From the UN report on Venezuela by Alfred De Zayas

Absolutey bang on target.

----------


## Klondyke

> comparable with medieval sieges of towns with the intention of forcing them to surrender.


There is a subtle difference in that deed: afterwards, at the end of the day, the population will enjoy a democracy...

(and get power supply switched on]

----------


## foobar

_Fifteen years after the U.S. invasion, electricity is still unreliable in Baghdad.

"Those who came after haven't improved the infrastructure, they haven't  built anything, they haven't done anything for the people," says  Jabouri. "Saddam's was a brutal regime. But now, I really regret hitting  the statue."_

----------


## harrybarracuda

> _Fifteen years after the U.S. invasion, electricity is still unreliable in Baghdad.
> 
> "Those who came after haven't improved the infrastructure, they haven't  built anything, they haven't done anything for the people," says  Jabouri. "Saddam's was a brutal regime. But now, I really regret hitting  the statue."_



They're in equal 168th place with Venezuela.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrup...ceptions_Index

When corrupt leaders get carried away with nicking the money, public services suffer.

----------


## foobar

^So after 16 years of US control, Iraq is on a level with Venezuela for corruption  :Smile:  

The US installed the puppet government in Iraq so the US is ultimately responsible for any corruption.

It's well known that public utilities in Iraq, sewage, roads, refuse collection, electricity etc were pretty much abandoned by the US following the invasion and for many years after.

The Iraqis had their oil looted, millions died, but ended up worse off than under Saddam.

As one Iraqi said:

_Fifteen years after the U.S. invasion, electricity is still unreliable in Baghdad.

"Those who came after haven't improved the infrastructure, they haven't   built anything, they haven't done anything for the people," says   Jabouri. "Saddam's was a brutal regime. But now, I really regret hitting   the statue."_

----------


## Texpat

They droppin' warheads on foreheads yet, Klong Dyke? Where's the BOOM?  ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ^So after 16 years of US control, Iraq is on a level with Venezuela for corruption  
> 
> The US installed the puppet government in Iraq so the US is ultimately responsible for any corruption.
> 
> It's well known that public utilities in Iraq, sewage, roads, refuse collection, electricity etc were pretty much abandoned by the US following the invasion and for many years after.
> 
> The Iraqis had their oil looted, millions died, but ended up worse off than under Saddam.
> 
> As one Iraqi said:
> ...


"Hi, my name is foobar and I'd like to go on the Venezuela thread and start banging on about how bad the Iraq War was because when I'm losing an argument I like to try and change the subject".

----------


## Klondyke

> They're in equal 168th place with Venezuela.


So easy to eradicate the corruption: just exchange the regime... (In Thailand it has worked, hasn't it?  - how many times...)

----------


## SKkin

> "37. Modern-day economic sanctions and blockades are comparable with medieval sieges of towns with the intention of forcing them to surrender. Twenty-first century sanctions attempt to bring not just a town, but sovereign countries to their knees. A difference, perhaps, is that twenty-first century sanctions are accompanied by the manipulation of public opinion through “fake news”, aggressive public relations and a pseudo-human rights rhetoric so as to give the impression that a human rights “end” justifies the criminal means. There is not only a horizontal juridical world order governed by the Charter of the United Nations and principles of sovereign equality, but also a vertical world order reflecting the hierarchy of a geopolitical system that links dominant States with the rest of the world according to military and economic power. It is the latter,geopolitical system that generates geopolitical crimes, hitherto in total impunity. It is reported that the United States is currently training foreign lawyers in how to draft legislation to impose further sanctions on the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela in an effort to asphyxiate Venezuelan State institutions."
> 
> From the UN report on Venezuela by Alfred De Zayas
> 
> Absolutey bang on target.



That must be why harry thinks de Zaya's a twat...

----------


## SKkin

Brought to you by Russian Bot Max Blumenthal... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

2 comments from the second video:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> That must be why harry thinks de Zaya's a twat...


Well actually I think he's a bit of a wanker because he thinks the Nuremburg trials were a Jewish conspiracy and the Germans were innocent, and he reckons there is no humanitarian crisis in Venezuela (apparently he deduced this from a hotel room window).

So no, nothing the crazy fuck says can be taken seriously.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Now they have tank fires at the Petro San Félix oil refinery and no-one to put them out.

The inept wankers are ruining a once great country.

----------


## harrybarracuda

Meanwhile...




> In the well-lit dining room of El Alazan, dollar bills are flying. Waiters whisk expensive cuts of meat and bottles of whisky between tables; a couple dances to a band playing in the corner.
> 
> This steakhouse in the affluent Altamira neighbourhood is busier than ever and the front desk juggle payments with wads of cash.
> 
> Juan, a nightclub owner in his sixties who sips a vodka and orange at the bar, says he has come here with his friends as “there is nowhere else in Caracas you can do this right now”.  
> 
> Outside, the streets are deserted as night falls, a crippling nationwide blackout imposing a de facto curfew after another long day of searches for food, water, and fuel.
> 
> All but a tiny sliver of Venezuela is in chaos: schools and businesses are closed, water and petrol pumps have failed, communications, cashpoints and card-readers are down and most transport has ground to a halt. Food is running out, and patients are dying in hospitals. 
> ...

----------


## foobar

^The US are recycling the same destabilisation tactics used during the Arab Spring, flood the media with a one-sided narrative, support the opposition( promising leaders a cut of the take ), encourage people to take to the streets and riot,  .....and we all know how this worked out for Syria/Libya.

It's only a matter of time before we're hearing reports of barrel bombs and Sarin victims.

----------


## Texpat

Where are the reports of US subs blocking the ports, Klong Dyke? Where's the action? This ain't much of a coup, is it?  ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

> Where's the action? This ain't much of a coup, is it?


You call destabilising people lives no action? ameristan, which by passive association includes the ameristani people and vassals, has plenty of "previous".

Feeling great this morning, yesterday, last week, last month, last year, last decade .... ? The overpowering stink from the cess pool, is spreading quicker, every second.

Tick Tock, Tick tock......

----------


## Texpat

Ain't much of a coup is it Ohoh? Perhaps you're just talkin' shit. Again.




> The overpowering stink from the cess pool, is spreading quicker, every second.


Try Listerine. It should work for 15, maybe 20 minutes.

----------


## OhOh

However many



are installed.

The sum effect remains the same



worn out methods and filthy floors.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You call destabilising people lives no action?


This is only in your little fertile imagination hoho.

The person destabilising Venezuela is the one who has run the country and its infrastructure into the ground.

If I was Venezualan I'd want to double tap the corrupt little bastard.

----------


## Klondyke

> The person destabilising Venezuela is the one who has run the country and its infrastructure into the ground.


So easy to exchange the one - and the country will flourish immediately again. Hasn't it flourished in Afgh., Iraq, Libya, Ukraine? (you name it...)

Why not to try in Haiti? It's not so far like Venezuela and no Russian flyers there? What about Mexico? There are so many choices around...

----------


## Klondyke

*Footage Contradicts U.S. Claim That Nicolás Maduro Burned Aid Convoy

*CÚCUTA, Colombia — The narrative seemed to fit Venezuela’s authoritarian rule: Security forces, on the order of President Nicolás Maduro, had torched a convoy of humanitarian aid as millions in his country were suffering from illness and hunger.


Vice President Mike Pence wrote that “the tyrant in Caracas danced” as his henchmen “burned food & medicine.” The State Department released a video saying Mr. Maduro had ordered the trucks burned. And Venezuela’s opposition held up the images of the burning aid, reproduced on dozens of news sites and television screens throughout Latin America, as evidence of Mr. Maduro’s cruelty.


But there is a problem: The opposition itself, not Mr. Maduro’s men, appears to have set the cargo alight accidentally.

Top U.S. officials have said Nicolás Maduro’s regime burned an aid convoy last month. But TV footage contradicts that claim and shows how this unverified information spread across Twitter and television.


Unpublished footage obtained by The New York Times and previously released tapes — including footage released by the Colombian government, which has blamed Mr. Maduro for the fire — allowed for a reconstruction of the incident. It suggests that a Molotov cocktail thrown by an antigovernment protester was the most likely trigger for the blaze.

At one point, a homemade bomb made from a bottle is hurled toward the police, who were blocking a bridge connecting Colombia and Venezuela to prevent the aid trucks from getting through.


But the rag used to light the Molotov cocktail separates from the bottle, flying toward the aid truck instead.

Half a minute later, that truck is in flames.


The same protester can be seen 20 minutes earlier, in a different video, hitting another truck with a Molotov cocktail, without setting it on fire.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/10/w...ire-video.html

----------


## foobar

> Why not to try in Haiti? It's not so far like Venezuela and no Russian flyers there? What about Mexico? There are so many choices around...


I hear Detroit could use a few aid trucks.

----------


## Buckaroo Banzai

> "Hi, my name is foobar and I'd like to go on the Venezuela thread and start banging on about how bad the Iraq War was because when I'm losing an argument I like to try and change the subject".


Isn't the subject  " American coup in Venezuela "
IMO  Not to discuss other american coups will be like having a discussion about the transmission reliability of , for example, a Ford everest but not be allowed to talk about the past  transmission reliability of other ford models.

----------


## OhOh

Or Ford Pinto fuel tanks v Boeing flight control systems.  Planned penny pinching or ameristan AI superiority? :Smile:

----------


## Texpat

No US troops marching on Caracas?  ::chitown:: 


So disappointing. Hey... did you just make up the whole story about the US invasion? It's just your fantasy, isn't it? I'm beginning to think this isn't an invasion, or a coup or anything of the sort...

----------


## Klondyke

> US invasion? It's just your fantasy, isn't it?


Anybody ever heard about* any* US invasion?* It's just your fantasy, isn't it?*

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Isn't the subject  " American coup in Venezuela "
> IMO  Not to discuss other american coups will be like having a discussion about the transmission reliability of , for example, a Ford everest but not be allowed to talk about the past  transmission reliability of other ford models.


The title is nonsense. You're right, it should probably be a news thread.

So I've opened one.

----------


## Klondyke

> The title is nonsense.


Absolutely, a nonsense...




> “Military intervention would be much more difficult than many believe,” Rebecca Bill Chavez, a former deputy assistant defense secretary for the Western Hemisphere, told the committee.
> 
> Democrats warned against any military action without congressional authorization.

----------


## foobar

> Isn't the subject  " American coup in Venezuela "
> IMO  Not to discuss other american coups will be like having a discussion about the transmission reliability of , for example, a Ford everest but not be allowed to talk about the past  transmission reliability of other ford models.


You can take it as given when Lord HawHaw responds with personal attacks and abuse it's because he has nothing and can't answer the fact based point being made,

Similarly, if you deviate from the official narrative set by US foreign policy as seen through the lens of American Exceptionalism then he gets equally agitated.

His delusion is so great, he think he can simply rename the thread and 'alakazam' we'll all become as blinkered as he and mindlessly feed on his straight propaganda articles.

Don't be fooled by his hating on Trump, its just smoke and mirrors to muddy the waters, he secretly loves Trump ...obviously, as he endorses every stroke of his foreign policy.

----------


## Buckaroo Banzai

> No US troops marching on Caracas? 
> 
> 
> So disappointing. Hey... did you just make up the whole story about the US invasion? It's just your fantasy, isn't it? I'm beginning to think this isn't an invasion, or a coup or anything of the sort...


I am glad you are beginning to think, its about time! 
Now that you are beginning to think , think about invasion by proxy.  have you ever heard of proxy wars????
 Let other do your dirty work . Guaido is looking for a job, hire the boy. He dont do a good job? plenty of other waiting for their turn.

----------


## Texpat

Still no coup, no invasion.  ::chitown::  

TRUMP on the brain buckaroo? It shows.

----------


## OhOh

*Venezuela - Journalists Doubt Guaidó's Legitimacy - Regime Change Plans Continue*


_"On February 23 the U.S. created a 'humanitarian aid' stunt at the  border between Colombia and Venezuela. The stunt ended in a riot during  which the supporters of the self declared 'president' Guaidó burned the  trucks that where supposed to transport the 'aid'. Even the New York  Times had to admit that.

The riots also marked the day that Guaidó lost the legal argument he had used to make himself 'interim president'.

__Guaido also lost his original legal position. He claimed the  presidency on January 23 under this paragraph of article 233 of the Venezuelan constitution:__
When an elected President becomes permanently unavailable to  serve prior to his inauguration, a new election by universal suffrage  and direct ballot shall be held within 30 consecutive days.  Pending election and inauguration of the new President, the President  of the National Assembly shall take charge of the Presidency of the  Republic.

__That the "elected President becomes permanently unavailable" was never  the case to begin with. But if article 233 would apply Guaido would have  had 30 days to hold new elections. The 30 days are over and Guaido did  not even call for elections to be held. He thereby defied the exact same  paragraph of the constitution that his (false) claim to the presidency  is based on.

__The hapless coup plotters in Washington DC were finally put on notice  that the issue creates a legal problem for them. During a March 15 press briefing Elliott Abrams, the U.S. Special Representative for Venezuela, was asked about the issue:

__QUESTION: [C]ould you explain to us the article under which  Mr. Guaido declared himself president? It is said that it has expired  last month. Could you explain that to us? What is the --

__MR ABRAMS: As to the Venezuelan constitution, the National  Assembly has passed a resolution that states that that 30-day period of  interim presidency will not start ending or counting until the day  Nicolas Maduro leaves power. So the 30 days doesn’t start now, it starts  after Maduro. And they – that’s a resolution of the National Assembly.

__A resolution of the National Assembly, which the Supreme Court of  Venezuela holds in contempt over the seating illegally elected persons,  can change the country's constitution? That does not sound convincing to  me. The journalists in the briefing were equally curious of how the  rules could be changed like that during the ongoing game:

__Q: When did they – they did that after he --

A: They did that – this is roughly a month ago. We could try to find the date for you.

Q: When he was – when he was – took the mantle of interim president, that wasn’t there.

A: Yes, when – that’s correct. And so people --

Q: Can you do that ex post facto like that?

A: When people ask a question how do --

Q:  That seems to be like saying I was elected for four years to be  president, and then two years in you change the rules so that your term  didn’t start – hasn’t even started yet. How does that happen?

A: Well, you don’t get a vote because you’re not in the National Assembly.

Q: Well, you don’t. You’re not in the National Assembly either.

Q: If it matters, does the U.S. view that as constitutional under their system?

A:  Yes. I mean, we’re taking the – the National Assembly is the only  legitimate democratic institution left in Venezuela, and their  interpretation of the constitution, as you know, is that as of the date  of this alleged term for Maduro, the presidency is vacant. But they have  also said that that 30-day period starts when Maduro goes.

Q: So Juan Guaido is the interim president of an interim that doesn’t exist yet?

A:  The 30-day end to his interim presidency starts counting. Because he’s  not in power, that’s the problem. Maduro is still there. So they have  decided that they will count that from when he actually is in power and  Maduro’s gone. I think it’s logical.

Q: So then he really isn’t interim president, then?

A: He is interim president, but he’s not --

Q: With no power.

A: -- able to exercise the powers of the office because Maduro still is there.

Q:  So their interpretation is that until and unless he actually has the  power to run the country, he’s not actually the interim president?

A:  No. Their interpretation is that the constitution requires a 30-day  interim period, but it – those 30 days should not be counted while  Maduro is still there exercising the powers of his former office.

__Here is 

 of the exchange. (Abrams seems to be lying about the alleged National Assembly resolution.)

 The legal argument Abrams produced lacks logic and clearly contradicts the wording of the constitution quoted above.

_
_The elected president has not become unavailable. Maduro was sworn  in for his second term on January 10. If the underlying argument is that  Maduro was illegally elected to his second term, Guaidó should have  declared himself 'interim president' on the day Maduro's first term  ended, January 10, not some random 13 days later.
__The constitution says that an election shall be held within 30 days  after the elected president becomes unavailable. If the argument is that  Maduro was illegally elected to his second term, the 30 days started on  January 10. If the National Assembly changed that "roughly a month ago"  it must have been after the time had run out.
__In the constitution the election within 30 days is the precondition  for the existence of the 'interim president', not the other way around:  "Pending election and inauguration of the new President, the President  of the National Assembly shall take charge ..."_ 
_ 
With no election pending within 30 days there can be no 'interim president' - with power or without.

 The legal subterfuge Abrams is using would not convince any serious  court. It is of course well known that Abram's has little regard for the  law. He was convicted for lying to Congress in two cases. But the issue  will matter.

 The U.S. seized Venezuelan assets, especially the Citgo refineries which are in financial trouble.  The U.S. is trying to move all the valuable assets towards Guaidó to  finance the next phased of its 'regime change' plan. Bondholders of  Citgo will likely contest these impoundments and transfers of assets in  court. There the argument Abrams made is not going to be a winning one.

 The first round of the U.S. 'regime change' change attempt in  Venezuela failed but it is far from over. The State Department alone foresees to spend $500 million more on it:

__The Fiscal Year 2020 budget request includes funding to  support democracy in Venezuela and provides the flexibility to make more  funds available to support a democratic transition, including up to  $500 million in transfer authority.

__The CIA and the Pentagon will have made much larger budget requests even while an invasion of Venezuela continues to be unlikely.

 In August last year so called Venezuelan army defectors attempted to  kill Maduro with drones carrying explosives during a military ceremony.  CNN talked  with them. The men say they trained in Colombia and met at least three  times with U.S. officials. It is likely that such assassination  attempts, undoubtedly organized by the CIA, will continue.

 In preparation of the 'humanitarian aid' stunt the U.S. had asked  Brazil to use military force to bring in the 'aid' into Venezuela and to  allow a U.S. presence at the border. The far-right President Jair  Bolsonaro of Brazil supported that but the military of Brazil, which  holds significant power in the cabinet, vetoed it (in Portuguese).

 Bosonaro is currently in Washington to meet President Trump. He also made an unusual visit to the CIA headquarter likely to review plans for future operations in Venezuela:

__A senior U.S. administration official briefing reporters on  condition of anonymity, noted that Brazil has a close relationship with  Venezuela’s military and may be able to serve as a go-between with the  security forces that continue to support Maduro.
...
“We have to  sort Venezuela out,” Bolsonaro said. “We cannot leave them the way they  are. We have to free the nation of Venezuela.”

__That a Brazilian President visits the CIA, the agency responsible for  violent coups and brutal dictatorships in Latin American is disgusting.  Many people in Brazil will dislike it. Supporting a CIA coup in a  neighboring country is worse. It’s hard to sink any lower.

 The government of Venezuela is preparing to resists the next phase of  the U.S. regime change attempt. It will export more of its oil to  Russia which continues to be willing to pay for it.

 After the large electricity outage and other sabotage attempts the situation in Venezuela is back to normal. No one is starving even as prices are high.

 President Maduro asked his cabinet to resign. The new government and its tasks will be re-configured to resist better to U.S. pressure and the upcoming additional sanctions.

 This will be a long fight."_

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/03/venezuela-journalists-doubt-guaid%C3%B3s-legitimacy-regime-change-plans-continue.html#more


https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2019/03/290416.htm

----------


## OhOh

Who will go bust first, Venezuelan producers of crude or ameristani refiners of Venezuelan crude?

*Falling gasoline crack spreads hit Gulf Coast refiners*https://www.chron.com/business/energ...#photo-8912030

*Toxic Chemical Inferno Threatens Houston Area As Black Plume Extends For Miles
*

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-19/toxic-chemical-inferno-threatens-houston-area-black-plume-extends-miles

*Venezuelan Heavy Crude Critical to Market Balance?*

https://btuanalytics.com/venezuelan-heavy-crude/


*Gulf Coast refiners fear loss of Venezuelan oil*

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/bus...l-11735499.php

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Who will go bust first, Venezuelan producers of crude or ameristani refiners of Venezuelan crude?
> 
> *Falling gasoline crack spreads hit Gulf Coast refiners*
> 
> https://www.chron.com/business/energ...#photo-8912030
> 
> *Toxic Chemical Inferno Threatens Houston Area As Black Plume Extends For Miles
> *
> 
> ...


Most of your information is out of date (2017?) and you mention a tank fire at Houston - if they can't store the stuff, why does it matter where the product comes from exactly?

I think you're trying to pretend that the sanctions will hurt US refiners. Unfortunately, because you don't know what you're talking about as usual, you're wrong.





> The U.S. sanctions on Venezuelas oil industry and state oil firm PDVSA are unlikely to have a significant impact on the refinery runs of the U.S. refiners, the Energy Information Administration (EIA) said in an analysis this week.
> 
> U.S. imports of crude oil from Venezuela have been falling in recent years, and U.S. refiners have been replacing heavy crude from Venezuela from heavy crude grades from other sources, the EIA said.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Out of the 14 U.S. refineries that imported crude from Venezuela last year12 of which in the Gulf Coastimports in January-November declined by 129,000 bpd compared with the same period in 2017. While imports from Venezuela declined, imports from Canada and Mexico to these refineries rose by 113,000 bpd and 48,000 bpd, respectively, from 2017 levels, the EIA has estimated.


https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-N...-Refiners.html

----------


## OhOh

Thank you for your and one sources opinion.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Thank you for your and one sources opinion.


Any of the information in there is easily verified, and more to the point it is current information, not two years old.

Which is why I opened a news thread, because you lot spouting a load of unsupported rubbish in speakers corner is all a bit pointless really.

----------


## Klondyke

> Which is why I opened a news thread


and its name sounds much better...

----------


## Texpat

No invasion? No pew pew pew from the soldiers? No rat-a-tat-a-tat from the helo gunships?  ::chitown::

----------


## OhOh

^One might consider the stealing of Venezuela's bank deposits and gold bars as an actor war. As most understand ameristan has little chance of winning any war these days, utilising bullets and bombs, derived from whatever Hollywood can dream up 

Recent records indicate one military victory since WW1 and that was against the small, 350 km sq, Caribbean island of Grenada. Some say the island was defended by 25 policemen/teachers.

All 10,000+ ameristani involved, those in the deep, mid west, underground bunker, cleaning staff, the 21at bomber wing - 45 B52s, the two CBGs, the on board lunch menu writers in Dallas and those aboard the nuclear armed hunter killer sub periscope polishers were awarded a special medal, allegedly

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

*Exclusive: U.S. threatens to derail meeting of Latam lender if China bars Venezuela*


_"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States on Thursday threatened to pull  out of the annual meeting of the Inter-American Development Bank in  China next week if Beijing refuses to allow a representative of  Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido to attend.

__The Washington-based IADB, the biggest lender to Latin America, voted  last week to replace Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduros board  representative with Harvard economist Ricardo Hausmann, who is backed by  Guaido.

_
_Several sources familiar with the situation told Reuters  that China - one of the Venezuelan governments few remaining  international allies - had proposed not inviting representatives from  either the Maduro or Guaido camps to de-politicize the meeting.  

_
_Discussions  to try to resolve the issue are ongoing among IADB member countries,  and a final decision has not yet been taken, the sources said. Chinas  embassy in DC was not immediately available to comment on the issue. 

_
_But  a senior official in President Donald Trumps administration - which  has backed Guaido as Venezuelas legitimate ruler - said the United  States and its regional allies would pull quorum from the meeting in  Chengdu if Hausmann was excluded. 

_
_The move likely would derail  the meetings, which bring together finance and development ministers  from the lenders 48 member countries. _ 
_Chinas unwillingness to  recognize and provide a visa to Hausmann is a breach of  long-established Inter-American Development Bank protocols and  procedures, the U.S. official told Reuters.  

_
_If China refuses  to recognize and provide Hausmann a visa, the United States and its  regional partners will pull quorum on the annual meeting, the official  added. 

_
_It is the first time the IADB is holding its  annual meeting in China, which has become a major player in Latin  America and has poured more than $50 billion into Venezuela over the  past decade in oil-for-loan agreements. 

_
_With relations between  Washington and Beijing marred by an acrimonious trade dispute, U.S.  officials have expressed concern in recent months at Chinas growing  influence in Latin America - a region Washington has long regarded as  its backyard.

_
_The U.S. Treasurys top economic diplomat, David  Malpass, last year urged the IADB to reconsider its decision to mark its  60th anniversary in China, saying the gathering should be held in the  Americas.  

_
_Guaido, who heads Venezuelas national assembly,  invoked the constitution to assume the interim presidency in January,  saying Maduros election was not legitimate. Most Western countries,  including the United States, have backed Guaido as Venezuelas head of  state. 
_
_Maduro, who still has the support of Venezuelas military, has clung to power with the support of Russia, China and Cuba. 

_
_The  diplomatic tug-of-war over who is Venezuelas legitimate leader has  become an uneasy issue for global institutions like the IADB, the  International Monetary Fund and World Bank, which like to be seen as  above the political fray. 

_
_The IMF said earlier on Thursday it was  waiting for guidance from its member countries on whether to recognize  Guaido. An IMF board meeting last week was delayed to allow for  consultations by some European countries with their capitals on the  matter.    

_
_The United States is the IADBs largest member country  and has said that billions of dollars of financing from multilateral  banks will be needed to rebuild Venezuelas economy, which has been  crippled by hyperinflation, food and medicine shortages and a collapse  of the countrys power grid. 

_
_Washington has imposed  sanctions on Venezuelas oil sector and announced asset freezes and visa  bans targeting top officials in Maduros government. 

_
_Maduro has  shown no signs that he is ready to step down, according to U.S.  officials. Washington on Thursday condemned the detention of Guaidos  chief of staff in a pre-dawn raid."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKCN1R22LS
_

----------


## Klondyke

After all, comforting is to know there has been no meddling in Venezuela "crisis". 

Perhaps only the Russian meddling as usually, however currently busy this weekend with meddling in Thai election...

----------


## Klondyke

*Over $30 Bln Stolen From Venezuela ‘at Trump’s Request’ - Cabinet Minister
*24.3.2019The statement comes a few days after Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro accused the US government of stealing $5 billion from the South American country – money that Maduro said has been earmarked for the manufacture of medicines.

Venezuelan Communications Minister Jorge Rodriguez has lambasted the country’s opposition for pocketing a billion dollars in government funds held in US banks.

“They have resorted to stealing the assets that Venezuela holds in different banks. This money is being confiscated at the request of the [US President Donald] Trump administration. Over $30 billion has been stolen in the past couple of months”, he was cited as saying by the state channel VTV.

The statement followed President Nicolas Maduro blaming Washington for stealing from Venezuela “$5 billion allocated for the purchase of the main substances for the production of medicine in Venezuela and its delivery to hospital networks, pharmacies, and ambulance networks".

He insisted that US President Donald Trump was responsible for "the most criminal measure" against the Venezuelan people in order to subsequently say that the US authorities were ready to provide humanitarian assistance to the South American country.

Earlier this month, Maduro accused the Venezuelan opposition and US authorities of being eager to start a war for natural resources.

https://sputniknews.com/latam/201903...bank-accounts/

----------


## Texpat

:smiley laughing:  This thread is a laugh a minute.

----------


## Switch

> This thread is a laugh a minute.


Agreed, why is it not in the doghouse?

Anyone suffering from insomnia is advised to check out one of Oh Oh’s cut and paste marathons. Guaranteed to induce sleep in the first paragraphs.

----------


## Texpat

Any "action" on the invasion front today, captain? Are all the sentinels posted? Keep us informed.  :rofl:

----------


## SKkin

Not yet sir, we're still busy wrapping up "victories" on multiple fronts.

 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Klondyke

*‘Stop the evil empire’: Roger Waters says ‘the coup’ in Venezuela has failed (VIDEO)
*25.3.2019



The attempt by foreign powers to impose regime change in Venezuela has failed, ex-Pink Floyd frontman Roger Waters has said, adding that final victory over the “evil empire” was on the horizon.

In a short video posted to Twitter, the famed English rock star and activist expressed disgust with those who supported Venezuela’s self-declared interim president Juan Guaido and his attempt to push President Nicolas Maduro out of office. “We were right about #RUSSIAGATE we’re right about VENEZUELA,” he wrote in a message accompanying the video clip, likely in reference to Robert Mueller’s special investigation finding no “collusion” between US President Donald Trump and the Kremlin.

*To see a great experiment in Bolivarian socialism taking place in a great country like Venezuela, and to watch the evil empire destroy it, is sickening. It’s failed. The coup failed. Guaido can go back to being a thug on the street, or whatever it was that he did.*

He mocked the Western assertion that Maduro was a coldhearted dictator, noting that in a real totalitarian state, Guaido would have been detained and executed. Instead, he’s allowed to travel freely between Venezuela and Colombia.

“Maybe Maduro needs to take lessons in evil dictatorship from some of the people supported by the United States of America,” the rock star joked.

He ended his video with a short message to his fans.

_We are strong, and we are many, and we will win this battle in the end. Stop the evil empire.

_https://www.rt.com/news/454677-roger...enezuela-coup/

----------


## foobar

Give me Waters over that kunt Branson any day of the week.

----------


## The Shining Light

> Roger Waters says ‘the coup’ in Venezuela has failed


Yup, been a long time now, and the Venezuelans aren't having it.

Should rename the thread
"Failed American coup in Venezuela"

Bout right.

Nice one  :Smile:

----------


## Cujo

Well this could get interesting.
The Russians have arrived to support moduro.
What will drumpf say to his hero Putin?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...g-and-strategy

----------


## Klondyke

^It's not so unusual.  Many US servicemen, even National Guards, are helping with revolutions anywhere in the world, e.g. :

*National guard pilot killed in Ukraine jet crash was native of Fresno, authorities say*
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local...220159545.html

----------


## Klondyke

Even in Haiti they are helping:
*Why were former members of the U.S. military driving around Haiti heavily armed? 
*19.2.2019
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nat...226475635.html

----------


## OhOh

Afghanis need to watch their back also,it seems. Blue on Blue,again.

----------


## Klondyke

As Pravda.ru said, an associate professor at the Department of Political Science and Sociology of the Russian Economic University named after G.V. Plekhanov, Ph.D. (Political Science), military political analyst Alexander Perendzhiev , the main task of sending a contingent "to show that Russia supports President Maduro, is set up for military-technical cooperation with this particular power." 

Here we are going along the path we have taken in Syria, the expert noted. 

"We did not allow Asad to be crushed, and here we say that we will not allow Maduro to be crushed, as we have been given to do in relation to Milosevic, Saddam and Gaddafi. We are showing that we are not afraid and will resist."

https://military.pravda.ru/1410842-jornalist/

----------


## OhOh

It's not as if THE LORD and his FM haven't spoken on this subject previously.

----------


## OhOh

*Russia throws down the gauntlet to US on Venezuela*


_The Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova acknowledged  in Moscow on Tuesday that Russian specialists are indeed in Venezuela  within the ambit of a 2001 military-technical cooperation agreement  with Caracas. Zakharova underscored that Russias bilateral military  cooperation with Venezuela is in accordance with the latters  constitution and has legal underpinning, which doesnt require any  additional approval from the (opposition-controlled) National Assembly  of Venezuela. 
_
_This followed media reports  that two Russian air force planes landed at Caracas on Saturday  carrying Vasily Tonkoshkurov, chief of staff of the ground forces with  nearly 100 military personnel and some 35 tonnes of material. An unnamed  official at the Russian embassy in Caracas told the Sputnik that the  Russian personnel had arrived to exchange consultations. Russia has  various contracts that are in the process of being fulfilled, contracts  of a technical-military character.
_
_Zakharovas remarks came a day  after Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov received a phone call from the US  Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on March 25. The Russian readout said  Pompeo was interested in certain issues related to the developments in  Venezuela. It added, Sergey Lavrov emphasised that Washingtons  attempts to organise a coup detat in Venezuela and threats to its  legitimate government are a violation of the UN Charter and blatant  interference in the domestic affairs of a sovereign state After stating  principal differences in Russian and US positions, the officials agreed  to stay in touch and continue to exchange assessments. 
_
_The  state department readout, however, claimed that Pompeo warned Russia  to cease its unconstructive behavior in Venezuela and that Washington  and its regional allies will not stand idly by as Russia exacerbates  tensions. It also said Pompeo accused Russia of continued insertion   to support the illegitimate regime of Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela  [which] risks prolonging the suffering of the Venezuelan people who  overwhelmingly support interim President Juan Guaido. 
_
_Meanwhile,  on Monday and Tuesday, in a series of tweets, US national security  advisor John Bolton vent anger and frustration: Maduro has lost the  support of the Venezuelan people, so hes relying on Cuban and Russian  support to usurp democracy and repress innocent civilians Rather than  sending nuclear-capable bombers and special forces to prop up a corrupt  dictator, Russia should work with the international community to support  the Venezuelan people. The United States will not tolerate hostile  foreign military powers meddling with the Western Hemispheres shared  goals of democracy, security, and the rule of law Maduro asks for Cuban  and Russian goons to suppress the people of Venezuela. 
_
_With  these developments, the crisis situation around Venezuela may deem to  have acquired a New Cold War dimension to it. Clearly, Moscow has  weighed the pros and cons of the Venezuelan situation and has decided to  be unapologetic about its support for the Maduro government. Despite  the US outbursts, Moscow is showing no signs of backing off, either. 
_
_The  big question ahead is whether Russia is climbing the escalation ladder.  Indeed, the stepping up of the military-technical cooperation stems  from the assessment in Moscow that the desperate US attempts to engineer  / sponsor a military coup in Caracas arent getting anywhere.  Meanwhile, President Nicolas Maduro announced  in an interview with the Russian state television today that a  high-level working session on intergovernmental cooperation between  Russia and Venezuela is due to take place in April where we will sign  over 20 documents on cooperation in economy, trade, culture, energy and  education.
_
_Suffice to say, Moscow intends to step up its support  for Maduro and is drawing up a plan of action to develop a comprehensive  bilateral cooperation program with a medium and long term perspective.  Now, that can only mean that in the Russian assessment, US blueprint to  overthrow the regime through economic sanctions and other covert  actions (such as the sabotage of power supply) and various methods of political and diplomatic pressure (including illegal confiscation  of Venezuelan assets in western banks running into tens of billions of  dollars) can be and must be countered. It is interesting that Cuba,  which is rich in experience in countering the US coercive policies, is  working shoulder to shoulder with Russia in this direction. 
_
_From  all appearance  so far, at least  a direct US military intervention  in Venezuela to forcibly change the regime is not on the cards. Rather, a  cold-war era war of attrition appears to be looming ahead. Can Russia  sustain the financial and economic burden involved? But the analogy of  the Russian intervention in Syria does not hold good here insofar as  Venezuela is potentially a rich country with the worlds largest proven  hydrocarbon reserves. Equally, China is also a stakeholder in  Venezuelas economic stability._ 
_On  the other hand, it is vitally important for Russia that the US, which  aspires to be the number one exporter of oil and gas, does not gain  control of the vast Venezuelan reserves, as that would mean an enormous  capacity falling into Washingtons hands to manipulate the supply and  demand in the world energy market and set the price of oil and gas. 
_
_In  geopolitical terms, a strong Russian presence in Venezuela becomes a  negotiating chip for Moscow in dealing with the growing NATO and  American deployments along Russias western borders in central and  eastern Europe and the Baltic states. That alone makes Venezuela a  strategic partner for Russia. 
_
_Plainly  put, any projection of Russian power in the US backyard will at some  point sooner rather than later impress upon Washington the imperative  need to constructively engage Moscow in dialogue and negotiations,  howsoever unpalatable that prospect might be. In fact, at one point,  Zakharaova pointedly touched on the Trump administrations Munroe  Doctrine, asking in an acerbic tone, What are they (US) themselves  doing in Eastern Hemisphere? Perhaps, they believe that the people of  this part of the world will be thankful when Washington wilfully changes  their leaders and kills the unwanted ones. Or the US still believes  that people are waiting for the Americans to bring democracy to them on  the wings of their bombers. Ask Iraqis, Libyans or Serbs about it._ 
_Zakharova  did not explicitly mention Ukraine or the Baltic states and Poland and  the Black Sea and the Caucasus, but the implicit meaning is clear: If  the US interferes in Russias backyard, Moscow serves the right to  retaliate. Period. It is useful to recall that the denouement to the  Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 was ultimately on the basis of a reciprocal  withdrawal of Russian missiles in Cuba and the American missiles  deployed in Turkey. 
_
_Pompeos phone call to Lavrov suggests that the US is trying to figure out the Russian intentions. Interestingly, the Russian readout  mentioned that Lavrov also brought up Syria and Ukraine during the  conversation with Pompeo. Lavrovs remarks were rather sharp: He  (Lavrov) also stressed that the USs intention to recognise Israels  sovereignty over the Golan Heights would lead to a serious violation of  international law, impede the Syrian settlement process and aggravate  the situation in the Middle East. Speaking about Ukraine, Sergey Lavrov  noted that Washingtons playing into the Kiev regimes hands in  torpedoing the Minsk Agreements on the settlement of the intra-Ukrainian  conflict was unacceptable._ 
_Curiously, on the contrary, the US state department readout  completely omitted any references to Syria or Ukraine. Evidently, it  was too much of a hot potato for Washington to even acknowledge that  Lavrov might have drawn a parallel with the US behaviour in the Eastern  Hemisphere, which Russia finds utterly unacceptable.__"_

https://indianpunchline.com/russia-throws-down-the-gauntlet-to-us-on-venezuela/

Press release on Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov?s telephone conversation with US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo - News - The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation

https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2019/03/290639.htm

----------


## Texpat

Oh no!  Not the gauntlet!

How's the invasion coming along?

----------


## Klondyke

*No diplomatic status for Guaidó's ambassadors in Berlin and the EU*

The Federal Government will not accredit the diplomatic representative sent to Berlin by self-proclaimed Venezuelan Transitional President Juan Guaidó as ambassador. This emerges from a response from the Foreign Office to a request from the Left Party, which is available to our newspaper.

According to this, on 13 March 2019, the Federal Government first received Guaidó's Otto Gebauer as "personal representative of Interim President Guaidó", with whom political talks are held. "Further steps are not planned," it says in the reply.

The statement of the Federal Government is in contradiction to statements of transitional president Guaidó. He had said that the ambassador of Nicolás Maduro's government was "no longer recognized" in Germany. "We have already named a new diplomatic representative in Germany," Guaidó recently told Spiegel Online.

With the recognition of Mr Guaidó as Interim President, the Federal Government has maneuvered itself from the outset into international law offside," said the left-wing foreign policy politician Heike Hänsel our editorial. This has apparently led to "that she is back rowing and an accreditation of the so-called ambassador of Mr. Guaidó, Otto Gebauer, who was involved in a coup attempt in the 2002 leading excludes."

Above all, Spain had worked in the EU countries to ensure that the Guaidó representatives in the EU did not receive diplomatic status or privileges. This was reported from diplomatic circles. Thus, the recognition Guaidós political nature and with no legal effect connected; you can not just hide that the real power in the country is still Maduro. The Member States are largely unanimous in not identifying Venezuela's diplomats.

https://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/...botschafter-an

----------


## OhOh

> How's the invasion coming along?


Why invade when you can starve the citizens of Venezuela of food, water and electicity and steal their money and companies.

*Venezuela bars Guaido from holding public office for 15 years*


_"CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido is to be  barred from holding public office for 15 years, the maximum punishment  allowable by law, state comptroller Elvis Amoroso said on Thursday.  

__Amoroso  said Guaido, the head of the opposition-controlled National Assembly  who invoked the constitution to assume an interim presidency in January,  had inconsistencies in his personal financial disclosures and a  spending record that did not match his level of income.  "_

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-guaido-idUSKCN1R9298


Anti graft law it seems has caught the thief. Some other countries , who shall not be mentioned, may consider applying their similar  laws, or not.

----------


## Texpat

> Why invade when you can starve the citizens of Venezuela of food, water and electicity and steal their money and companies.


Oh, I see. A siege, is it? Those Americans have the fort surrounded? Harbours mined? Rail lines fouled? Blockades set up around the perimeter?

Cool.  ::chitown:: 

Got any pics?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Why invade when you can starve the citizens of Venezuela of food, water and electicity and steal their money and companies.
> 
> *Venezuela bars Guaido from holding public office for 15 years*


Very Hun Sen.

----------


## OhOh

> Got any pics?


Investigate historic Venezuela food imports, where in recent ears the local importers have distributed the food too or just stockpiled to increase the cost of living,yourself.  :Smile:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Investigate historic Venezuela food imports, where in recent ears the local importers have distributed the food too or just stockpiled to increase the cost of living,yourself.


He means no, texprat.

----------


## Klondyke

Just airing:
*Make the economy scream*
Published time: 29 Mar, 2019

A Greek journalist travels to Venezuela trying to understand why the politicians in his crisis-plagued country are debating whether there is enough toilet paper in Caracas. Through several trips, which bring him from the shanty towns to the borders of Colombia and back to Europe, he discovers a reality that differs from the mainstream media narrative.

Several prominent academics, journalists and economists (including former independent UN expert, Alfred de Zayas; former editor of Monde Diplomatique, Ignatio Ramonet; and economist Mark Weisbrot) give a different angle on the causes of the crisis and the role of the United States.

_Due to copyright restrictions, this video can only be viewed on RT’s live feed. Time of broadcast is available on RT’s schedule page.

_https://www.rt.com/shows/documentary...cas-europe-us/

https://www.rt.com/on-air/

----------


## OhOh

From 1899, the combatants change but the reasons do not,



*The Rowers - Poem by Rudyard Kipling*

The banked oars fell an hundred strong,
And backed and threshed and ground,
But bitter was the rowers' song
As they brought the war-boat round.

They had no heart for the rally and roar
That makes the whale-bath smoke --
When the great blades cleave and hold and leave
As one on the racing stroke.

They sang:--What reckoning do you keep,
And steer by what star,
If we come unscathed from the Southern deep
To be wrecked on a Baltic bar?

"Last night you swore our voyage was done,
But seaward still we go.
And you tell us now of a secret vow
You have made with an open foe! 

"That we must lie off a lightless coast
And houl and back and veer
At the will of the breed that have wrought us most
For a year and a year and a year!

"There was never a shame in Christendie
They laid not to our door--
And you say we must take the winter sea
And sail with them once more?

"Look South! The gale is scarce o'erpast
That stripped and laid us down,
When we stood forth but they stood fast
And prayed to see us drown.

"Our dead they mocked are scarcely cold,
Our wounds are bleeding yet--
And you tell us now that our strength is sold
To help them press for a debt!

"'Neath all the flags of all mankind
That use upon the seas,
Was there no other fleet to find
That you strike bands with these?

"Of evil times that men can choose
On evil fate to fall,
What brooding Judgment let you loose
To pick the worst of all?

"In sight of peace--from the Narrow Seas
O'er half the world to run--
With a cheated crew, to league anew
With the Goth and the shameless Hun!"

https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-rowers/

----------


## Texpat

Reduced to cut-and-paste poetry? Run out of conspiracies? 

Try Coleridge's "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" you can find it at Project Gutenberg. If nothing else, it will take your worried mind off the American "siege" (wink wink). 

Search Project Gutenberg - Project Gutenberg

----------


## harrybarracuda

There once was a crook from Caracas
Who was a c u n t who stole billions
etc.

----------


## Texpat

There once was a prez in Caracas
Whose policies raised quite a rukus
He said "We have oil"
"So what's there to spoil?"
Our socialist ways will just fuck us.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> There once was a prez in Caracas
> Whose policies raised quite a rukus
> He said "We have oil"
> "So what's there to spoil?"
> Our socialist ways will just fuck us.


Byron would be proud of you.

 :rofl:

----------


## Klondyke

> There once was a crook from Caracas
> Who was a c u n t who stole billions
> etc.


How outrageous. We love the crooks who do not steal and who stay poor...

----------


## OhOh

Thank you all for your rhymes.




> Who was a c u n t who stole billions


Nah, "the [at][at][at][at]" claims bankruptcy, every time he loses and has quite a scoreboard for losing - even the "popular vote" some allege.

----------


## Klondyke

*US frustrated at Venezuela president’s staying power as ally Russia props him up
*
Diplomats say economic pressure, mainly US sanctions, may not be enough to dislodge Nicolas Maduro if the Venezuelan people don’t rise up
1 Apr 2019




The excitement in some US and foreign diplomatic circles about the rise of Juan Guaido and an expectation for the fall of President Nicolas Maduro has been replaced by frustration over the Venezuelan leader’s staying power – and Russia’s support for him.

Maduro’s hold on Venezuela has led diplomats, foreign leaders and some Washington officials to consider that, barring military action, Maduro may be able to follow in the footsteps of other authoritarian leaders who have stayed in power despite crushing sanctions.

“Maduro has definitely shown he is more resilient than what people thought. That’s a fact,” said a diplomat from Latin America who was unauthorised to speak publicly about the regional strategy.

“If you think about what the administration said about ‘this is the end, this is the end,’ and yet Maduro is still there.”

Foreign diplomats in Washington say they got caught up in expectations raised by some in the Trump administration that Guaido would take over the government, and so are disappointed that Maduro’s regime has not yet fallen.

Confidence that Maduro’s fall was guaranteed has now turned more to hope that he will – and concern he may not.

“There was this euphoric reaction that we all felt that it was the end of Maduro,” said Fernando Carrera, Guatemala’s foreign minister in 2013 and 2014.

But with dozens of nations recognising Guaido as Venezuela’s rightful leader, Maduro is managing the country’s new status as a pariah state by largely operating outside the Western systems of trade and finance, while turning to Russia and Cuba, and to some extent China and India.

Russia’s backing of Maduro in the face of the US effort to depose him is increasingly being compared to the Kremlin’s intervention in Syria on behalf of President Bashar al-Assad.

In 2015, Russian involvement turned the tide in Syria’s civil war, preserving Assad’s power and elevating Moscow into a seeming kingmaker in the Middle East.
--
History shows that sanctions alone are not necessarily the most effective way to force regime change, said Robert Litwak, a former director for non-proliferation for the National Security Council, who is now a vice-president at the Woodrow Wilson Centre.

“If one looks at the record, one can’t find a case were economic sanctions on their own produced a change of regime,” Litwak said.

“Look, Cuba has been sanctioned for 60 years. We’ve had the most rigorous sanctions. People are driving cars from the 1950s and they’ve circumvented sanctions. But it hasn’t collapsed the regime.”

Litwak said the United States heavily sanctioned Iraq, Libya, North Korea and Iran was unable to achieve the goal of regime change.

Read more
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/amer...er-ally-russia

----------


## Klondyke

*New "landing" in Venezuela - China supports Russia against the USA (PHOTO, VIDEO)

*30 Mar 2019




Heavy transport aircraft from China landed yesterday afternoon at the airport. Simon Bolivar, located 20 kilometers from the Venezuelan capital Caracas.

According to Chinese media reports, they have loads of medical care, which is part of "deep friendship and bilateral cooperation between the two countries," as the Chinese Ambassador to Venezuela said.

Meanwhile, local opposition publications claim that under the guise of medical care, China is sending military specialists to Caracas.

It seems that the only meaning of their presence in Venezuela is to assist the legitimate authorities in restoring constitutional order and repelling US aggression.

https://rusvesna.su/news/1553964152

----------


## Klondyke

*‘What kind of a dictatorship is this?’ Max Blumenthal on Venezuela cops protecting coup leader
*1 Apr, 2019 22:59



US-backed Venezuelan opposition leader, Juan Guaido, came to Caracas seeking to be arrested, but the provocation failed and he ended up being guarded by police from an angry mob, investigative journalist Max Blumenthal told RT.

“It’s ironic to see government security forces actually protecting Guaido, a figure who is calling for the government to be toppled and attempting to fragment the security services from within,” Blumenthal, editor of the Grayzone Project, said, commenting on the video recently uploaded to social media.

The choice of “El Valle where Maduro’s base is” for the opposition gathering was no coincidence, as Guaido came there “because the US wanted him to get arrested to create a provocation,” Blumenthal said. The opposition leader wasn’t visible in the video, but he said that “the rally actually did take place. Guaido got out of his armored car and very few people attended it.”

The “pathetic” rally had a reverse effect and actually showed “how irrelevant Guaido is becoming,” the journalist pointed out. Despite a dire economic situation and constant blackouts, he “mustered very small numbers in the streets so far. Most people are staying at home,” Blumenthal said, adding that it’s the heavy US backing which is actually “harming the opposition’s cause.”

President Maduro is, of course, not without blame, as “mistakes were made by the government… but now they’re in a position when the US is trying to prevent them from getting out of the hyperinflation… and preventing them from importing food and medicine,” the journalist explained.

The harsh sanctions imposed by the Trump administration on Venezuela constitute “financial terrorism and it’s an attack on everyone, regardless of their political affiliation. I think Venezuelans recognized that,” and therefore have no desire to back Washington’s man, Guaido, Blumenthal believes.

https://www.rt.com/news/455308-guaid...lly-venezuela/

----------


## OhOh

> Max Blumenthal


How is his ameristani social credit score, as determined by the alphabet regime. 

If it ain't on RFA it ain't running here.

----------


## Klondyke

Glimpsed somewhere, a good one:

_Americans in the world have arbitrarily seized $ 30 billion of Venezuelan state assets, then bought for them 30 million humanitarian aid, put it for 300 thousand into the truck and left it on the border_ _for 3 thousand_ _to ignite it_ _by their own hired provocateurs._

----------


## OhOh

It appears that 1,000s of Venezuelans have made a dash for Columbia. Next stop Mexico.  goldilocks better build that wall quickly. 

Of course amerisani spokesman has stated they were breaking into Venezuela, idiot.

*Thousands Of Venezuelans Break Through Border Barricades - Bolton Cheers Mayhem*


"After US coup attempts targeting the Nicolas Maduro government failed  to produce the desired result over the past two months, it appears *things are about to heat up again*,  as the White House grasps at any incident that could again take  Venezuela into international spotlight, ramping up external pressures  amid continued infrastructural collapse and mass power outages. 

National security adviser John Bolton on Tuesday evening tweeted a video showing *ongoing mayhem at a key border crossing with Colombia*,  where desperate Venezuelans have been attempting to break through  Maduro forces imposed barriers: "The Venezuelan people have broken  through Maduro’s barricades and have begun moving humanitarian aid from  Colombia across the border. Another important victory for Interim  President Juan Guaido," Bolton stated. 

 The Venezuelan people have broken  through Maduro’s barricades and have begun moving humanitarian aid from  Colombia across the border. Another important victory for Interim  President Juan Guaido. https://t.co/0qXYj8jHIr

 — John Bolton (@AmbJohnBolton) April 2, 2019

 Bolton called attention to the footage described as showing "the  moment Venezuelans broke down the barriers on the Simon Bolivar bridge  to cross back into Venezuela with supplies."

  It appears the White House plans to put continued focus on border clashes following the late February failed attempt  of US-backed "interim president" Juan Guaido personally leading  humanitarian aid caravans from Colombia into Venezuela, in order to  undermine and ultimately overthrow Maduro.

  A breaking _Reuters_ report described the incident to which Bolton referred as involving *thousands of people rushing the border*, which was blocked by large container truck barricades:

 Thousands of Venezuelans broke through barricades along the  international border with Colombia on Tuesday, according to the  migration office in Bogota, which warned Venezuelan President Nicolas  Maduro that *he would be held responsible for any problems that may occur*.

  Maduro in February blocked bridges joining the two nations in a bid  to prevent a U.S.-backed effort to distribute hundreds of tons of  humanitarian aid to the crisis-wracked nation.

*With bridges blocked by containers and trucks, Venezuelans  have been wading through the Tachira River to reach the city of Cucuta*, on Colombia’s northern border, to find food, medicines and work. But torrential rains in recent days has made that impossible.

Members of Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Guard (GNB) have been  stationed at key border crossings, fearful also that exiled Venezuelan  military defectors could bring arms into the country to stage a  military revolt. 

But the border crisis is also largely economic, as millions of  Venezuelans have sought passage to neighboring Colombia due to food,  medical, and electricity supply shortages. Many also seek to obtain jobs  in neighboring countries while maintaining their homes in border towns  on the Venezuelan side. 

  Thus it appears that in this case Venezuelans are trying to break out  of the country across to Colombia to grab any supplies available, which  means* Bolton appears to be completely misreading or perhaps willfully distorting the whole incident*. 

  As Venezuelans flooded across the border, Colombia's migration agency  warned Venezuela that it was responsible for any mishap and the safety  of its citizens.

 #URGENTE || A está hora 11:04 AM, venezolanos de lado colombiano del puente #SimónBolívar rompieron piquete de la GNB para ingresar a #Venezuela con alimentos tras crecida del río #Táchira. pic.twitter.com/KYDqcns7xW

 — Gaby Arellano (@gabyarellanoVE) April 2, 2019

"The usurper Maduro is responsible for anything that may happen to  the population that is transiting between the two countries," Christian  Kruger, head of Colombia's migration office said late Tuesday.

 Thousands of Venezuelans broke through barricades on a bridge linking  Venezuela with Colombia, according to the migration office in Bogota.

  Some climbed over containers that the Venezuelan military had placed on the Simon Bolivar bridge *to block access to the Colombian border city of Cucuta*. _—_ Deutsche Welle

It also must be remembered that during the late February crisis along  the border at the Francisco de Paula Santander International Bridge,  two aid trucks were set on fire _—_ an incident blamed by the US on Maduro forces, but later proven to be the work of the opposition, which suggests Washington is ever *willing to use "false flag" events to escalate the crisis*. 

  Are we in for a "round 2" incident at the border? Likely something  big is about to happen now that Washington planners are increasingly out  of options, given Maduro's weathering the crisis and international  pressures and sanctions against him thus far. 

  The Venezuelan government previously condemned all Washington and  right-wing opposition groups' attempts at creating provocations to  initiate greater international action against Caracas and legitimate  authorities. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-02/thousands-venezuelans-break-through-border-barricades-bolton-cheers-mayhem

----------


## OhOh

*Power back on in Cancun after outages in Mexico's Yucatan*_"__MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Electric power returned to three states on  Mexico’s Yucatan peninsula on Friday night, including tourist hot spots  Cancun and Tulum, after a partial blackout left 1.6 million customers  without energy, state-run power utility CFE said. 
__“Service has  been 100 percent reestablished in the three states thanks to the quick  work of CFE workers,” the utility said in a statement. 
_
_CFE said that a brush fire between transmission towers had caused the power outage. 
_
_Power outages hit throughout the peninsula, which is dotted with Caribbean coastal resorts._ 
_Places  affected included Cancun and Tulum in the state of Quintana Roo, the  city of Merida in Yucatan state, and the neighboring state of Campeche, a  major oil-producing region. 
_
_Some 85 percent of all clients in the three states were affected by the blackout, said CFE. "_

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-cancun-blackout/cancuns-power-coming-back-after-outages-in-mexicos-yucatan-idUSKCN1RH2KV?il=0

It appears that lighting a fire under the transmission lines is an easily and anonymously available tactic available to all saboteurs. 

As this tactic is heading north can we assume that the refugees are the culprits and will it appear in ameristan next? 

Luckily Texas doesn't have many jungles.

----------


## Klondyke

UNSC session just live on RT, also on Al Jazeera, with VOTUS in person...

----------


## OhOh

It appears that ameristan, not content with it's failed illegal coup attempt regarding Venezuela, seeks another in the UNSC:

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1115999353641078785




and here:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other...als/vi-BBVOdoc


*Pence urges UN to revoke Venezuela credentials*   Duration: 00:44   19 hrs ago  

   Vice President Mike Pence called on UN leaders to recognize interim  Venezuelan President Juan Guaido and revoke the credentials for the  country's current UN ambassador. (April 10)

----------


## foobar

America isn't even bother to pretend any longer, persecuting journalists, blocking war crime investigations and installing puppets in place of democratically elected leaders in order to plunder resources & that is just this month.

----------


## Klondyke

A call for change of regime turns the purpose of the UN upside down. 

Chapter I, article 2:



> Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter;


https://www.un.org/en/sections/un-ch...r-i/index.html

----------


## OhOh

*Venezuelan ex-spy chief who defected to Guaido arrested on US drug trafficking warrant in Spain     * 



_"The former chief of Venezuela's military intelligence  and the  highest-ranking military officer to defect to the US-backed opposition   has been nabbed in Spain on a US warrant for allegedly trafficking tons  of cocaine.     _ _Hugo Carvajal was arrested  by Spanish police in Madrid on Friday and faces extradition to the US,  where he was indicted in 2014 for allegedly having "coordinated the transportation of approximately 5,600 kilograms of cocaine from Venezuela to Mexico."  He will testify in a Saturday court appearance as to whether he wishes  to fight the extradition, an official with Spain's National Court told  the AP. 
_
_The Venezuelan ex-major general, whose nickname "el Pollo" means "the Chicken,"  is accused of protecting a Colombian drug kingpin from arrest, allowing  him to move about 5,600kg of cocaine in and out of Venezuela, and  tipping him off to law enforcement activities. Carvajal allegedly was  not only paid off by the kingpin and other members of his organization,  but also invested in some of the drug shipments. He is also accused of  providing weapons to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).
_
_While  Carvajal served as chief of military intelligence and  counterintelligence under former Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez, he reportedly  began to distance himself from Chavez's successor President Nicolas  Maduro after returning to Venezuela in 2014 from Aruba, where he had  been briefly detained on the same US warrant, facing extradition until  Maduro threatened retaliation against the island.
_
_Carvajal left  Maduro's government in 2017, ostensibly in protest over the president's  plans to form a constitutional assembly that would reduce the power of  the opposition-controlled National Assembly, and declared his allegiance  to opposition leader and self-appointed president Juan Guaido in  February, blaming Maduro for the "disastrous reality" of Venezuela. Last month, the president expelled Carvajal from the armed forces, accusing him of "acts of treason against the fatherland."

Since embracing the US-backed Guaido, Carvajal has called on other  members of the Venezuelan military to join the opposition, warning them  against becoming "collaborators" of a "dictatorial government that has plagued people with misery" and accusing military leaders of being pawns of Cuba. He also gave a juicy interview  with the New York Times, denouncing current and former members of  Maduro's government as drug traffickers, FARC and Hezbollah  collaborators, and journalist blackmailers while denying his own guilt  on the many of the same charges."

_https://www.rt.com/news/456382-venezuelan-military-arrested-spain-drugs/

I'm sure the, "unexceptional country north of Mexico", lawyers will find some "evidence/constitutional" errors in their case against him and hence drop all charges. :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

*The Triumph of Evil

*Paul Craig Roberts

Today (April 17) I heard a NPR “news” report that described the democratically elected president of Venezuela as “the Venezuelan dictator Maduro.” By repeating over and over that a democratically elected president is a dictator, the presstitutes create that image of Maduro in the minds of vast numbers of peoples who know nothing about Venezuela and had never heard of Maduro until he is dropped on them as “dictator.”

Nicolas Maduro Moros was elected president of Venezuela in 2013 and again in 2018. Previously he served as vice president and foreign minister, and he was elected to the National Assembly in 2000. Despite Washington’s propaganda campaign against him and Washington’s attempt to instigate violent street protests and Maduro’s overthrow by the Venezuelan military, whose leaders have been offered large sums of money, Maduro has the overwhelming support of the people, and the military has not moved against him.

What is going on is that American oil companies want to recover their control over the revenue streams from Venezuela’s vast oil reserves. Under the Bolivarian Revolution of Chavez, continued by Maduro, the oil revenues instead of departing the country have been used to reduce poverty and raise literacy inside Venezuela.

The opposition to Maduro inside Venezuela comes from the elites who have been traditionally allied with Washington in the looting of the country. These corrupt elites, with the CIA’s help, temporarily overthrew Chavez, but the people and the Venezuelan military secured his release and return to the presidency.

Washington has a long record of refusing to accept any reformist governments in Latin America. Reformers get in the way of North America’s exploitation of Latin American countries and are overthrown.

With the exceptions of Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, and Nicaragua, Latin America consists of Washington’s vassal states. In recent years Washington destroyed reform governments in Honduras, Argentina and Brazil and put gangsters in charge.

According to US national security adviser John Bolton, a neoconservative war monger, the governments in Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua will soon be overthrown. New sanctions have now been placed on the three countries. Washington in the typical display of its pettiness targeted sanctions against the son of the Nicaraguan president Daniel Ortega. https://www.rt.com/news/456841-bolto...ezuela-threat/

Ortega has been the leader of Nicaragua since for 40 years. He was president 1985-1990 and has been elected and reelected as president since 2006.

Ortega was the opponent of Somoza, Washington’s dictator in Nicaragua. Consequently he and his movement were attacked by the neoconservative operation known as Iran-Contra during the Reagan years. Ortega was a reformer. His government focused on literacy, land reform, and nationalization, which was at the expense of the wealthy ruling class. He was labeled a “Marxist-Leninist,” and Washington attempted to discredit his reforms as controversial leftist policies.

Somehow Castro and Ortega survived Washington’s plots against them. By the skin of his teeth so did Chavez unless you believe it was the CIA that gave him cancer. Castro and Chavez are dead. Ortega is 74. Maduro is in trouble, because Washington has stolen Venezuela’s bank deposits and cut Venezuela off the international financial system, and the British have stolen Venezuela’s gold. This makes it hard for Venezuela to pay its debts.

The Trump regime has branded the democratically twice-elected Maduro an “illegitimate” president. Washington has found a willing puppet, Juan Guaido, to take Maduro’s place and has announced that the puppet is now the president of Venezuela. No one among the Western presstitutes or among the vassals of Washington’s empire finds it strange that an elected president is illegitimate but one picked by Washington is not.

Russia and China have given Maduro diplomatic support. Both have substantial investments in Venezuela that would be lost if Washington seizes the country. Russia’s support for Maduro was declared by Bolton today to be a provocation that is a threat to international peace and security. Bolton said his sanctions should be seen by Russia as a warning against providing any help for the Venezuelan government.

Secretary of state Mike Pompeo and vice president Pence have added their big mouths to the propaganda against the few independent governments in Latin America. Where is the shame when the highest American government officials stand up in front of the world and openly proclaim that it is official US government policy to overthrow democratically elected governments simply because those governments don’t let Americans plunder their countries?

How is it possible that Pompeo can announce that the “days are numbered” of the elected president of Nicaragua, who has been elected president 3 or 4 times, and the world not see the US as a rogue state that must be isolated and shunned? How can Pompeo describe Washington’s overthrow of an elected government as “setting the Nicaraguan people free?”

The top officials of the US government have announced that they intend to overthrow the governments of 3 countries and this is not seen as “a threat to international peace and security?”

How much peace and security did Washington’s overthrow of governments in Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, and the attempted overthrow of Syria bring?

Washington is once again openly violating international law and the rest of the world has nothing to say?

There is only one way to describe this: The Triumph of Evil.

_“The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned; the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.” — William Butler Yeats
_
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...mph-of-evil-2/

----------


## Klondyke

*Abrams calls to ‘imagine’ Venezuela with billions of dollars from US and without Maduro

*US Special Representative to Venezuela Elliott Abrams called for the removal of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro from power, and said tens of billions in foreign investment could pour into the country as a result of his ouster.

“In the future, billions of dollars will be invested in Venezuela to rebuild the agricultural and industrial sectors," Abrams said in a keynote address to the Atlantic Council, but added the process “can only start when there is a fully inclusive government that represents all Venezuelans.”

“What is stopping the beginning of rebuilding and reconciliation? Some questions are hard; that one is easy. The short answer is: Nicolas Maduro.”

Abrams dug deep and gave his best John Lennon impression, asking his audience to “imagine” a free and prosperous Venezuela with clean water, enough food and a stable currency.

An international coalition – 50 countries by Abrams’ count – has thrown support behind opposition leader Juan Guaidó, who declared himself interim president in January and soon after made overtures to US military intervention in the country. Abrams told the Council that Guaido has a vision for Venezuela “where liberty reigns.”

Abrams called for a three-pronged approach, dealing with a political transition, the role of the military in governance and turning around the country’s economy. Maduro’s removal from power and improvements to the economy “will not be an easy or quick project, but yes it is possible,” he said.

Humanitarian aid sits at the country’s borders “ready to flow,” Abrams added, slamming leaders of the ruling socialist PSUV party for living in luxury while average citizens suffer a failing economy, a situation he called “unacceptable.”

Washington last year imposed a round of sanctions on Venezuela, cutting the country off from the American financial system and making its economic situation all the more dire.

Abrams has a history of using aid shipments as Trojan horses for the delivery of weapons to opposition. He pioneered the technique during the Reagan administration’s covert war against the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, arranging to have weapons destined for the US-backed Contra rebels ferried into the country on “humanitarian aid” planes – a deception he has defended as “strictly by the book.” Venezuelan authorities have already accused the US of trying to sneak weapons into the country after a small arsenal was discovered aboard a plane landing in Valencia that belonged to an American freight company with alleged CIA links, and the Red Cross has asked non-affiliated organizations to stop using its logo to evade authorities’ scrutiny.

Non-US countries have been delivering humanitarian aid to Venezuela since Guaido declared himself president in January – though the assistance of these nations gets little mention in American news coverage – necessitated at least in part by US sanctions that have choked Venezuela’s economy nearly to death over the past 20 years as punishment for experimenting with socialism.

https://www.rt.com/news/457565-abram...ezuela-maduro/

----------


## SKkin

AG Barr stands ready to bail out Abrams yet again...

New Attorney General William Barr is proud he helped Elliott Abrams get a pardon for Iran-Contra
https://thinkprogress.org/elliott-ab...-5cbca426a978/



The Tragic Life of the War Criminal Elliott Abrams
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/02/t...elliott-abrams




> It should go without saying that the idea the Trump administration is  pursuing regime change in Venezuela for the sake of democracy and human  rights is as laughable as calling Jamal Khashoggi’s murder a surprise  party gone wrong. But in case you need to explain this to politically  confused friends and relatives, here are eight good reasons why the  appointment of Abrams, in particular, makes a mockery of any such  high-minded rhetoric.

----------


## foobar

_
Reuters news agency reported on Monday night that Erik Prince, a prominent and wealthy Trump supporter who runs a global private security business, has been lobbying for a plan to deploy a private army to help topple Maduro.

According to the report, Prince, the founder of the controversial security firm Blackwater, has been seeking investment and political support for an operation that would involve up to 5,000 mercenaries.

Lital Leshem, director of investor relations at Prince’s private equity firm, Frontier Resource Group, was quoted as saying: “He does have a solution for Venezuela, just as he has a solution for many other places.”

However, Marc Cohen, a spokesman for Prince, said this month that Prince “has no plans to operate or implement an operation in Venezuela”.

Bolton has given a series of hawkish speeches on Latin America, declaring earlier this month that the Monroe doctrine, which places the Americas in the US area of influence, is “alive and well”._

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...a-coup-attempt

----------


## Dragonfly

jesus, what a bunch of loons

----------


## Norton

> jesus, what a bunch of loons


Agree in general but specifically which are the loons.  :Smile:

----------


## bsnub

> but specifically which are the loons.


Bolton for one.

----------


## Norton

Group of loons is appropriately called an asylum of loons.  :Smile:

----------


## Klondyke

Don't make mistake:

*U.S. intelligence on Venezuela 'very good,' acting defense chief says

*WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Acting U.S. Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan dismissed concerns about a potential intelligence failure on Venezuela like the one that preceded the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, and said top U.S. officials had held talks at the Pentagon on Friday.

President Donald Trump’s strategy on Venezuela has come under growing scrutiny as President Nicolas Maduro remains in power, raising questions about the way ahead for opposition leader Juan Guaido, who the United States and some 50 countries recognize as the legitimate head of state.

U.S. officials, including National Security Adviser John Bolton, had expected broader defections from the Venezuelan military in support of Guaido after he called on the armed forces to help oust Maduro on Tuesday.

“I don’t feel like we have an intelligence gap. I think we have very good reporting,” Shanahan told reporters, when asked about comparisons to gaps in intelligence that preceded the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq. His remarks followed a meeting at the Pentagon that included Bolton, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Navy Admiral Craig Faller, who oversees U.S. forces in Latin America.

“We have multiple sources that we constantly sample, and then we have all sorts of other ways of doing collection ... I feel very confident in the quality and the accuracy of the information that we are getting,” he said.

Earlier this week, Bolton said Venezuelan Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino, Supreme Court chief judge Maikel Moreno and presidential guard commander Ivan Rafael Hernandez Dala had told the opposition that Maduro needed to give up power to Guaido.

None of them, however, have publicly split with Maduro and Padrino stood beside Maduro as he delivered an address on Thursday.

The Trump administration says the men backed out of the plan.

“The takeaway is, if you make a commitment, follow through,” a senior U.S. administration official said, explaining why Bolton named the officials publicly.

Prior to the invasion in Iraq, President George W. Bush and top aides made the case for intervening by citing intelligence that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had ties to al Qaeda and was secretly developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.

Both claims were proved false. Bush and his aides had exaggerated the available intelligence, relied on dubious claims from Iraqi exiles and ignored contradictory information.

More than 4,400 U.S. troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died in the conflict, which many analysts have called one of the major U.S. foreign policy debacles of modern times.

Some have speculated that the Trump administration might increasingly look to military options since economic and diplomatic pressure have so far failed to remove Maduro from power. But there is deep skepticism whether the president, who is trying to extract the United States from Syria and Afghanistan, is ready for a new foreign conflict.

Bolton, walking past reporters at the White House, declined comment on the Pentagon meeting on Friday.

Shanahan did not suggest any moves toward U.S. military intervention in Venezuela, although he repeated that all options were “on the table” - a common refrain by Trump’s administration.

He said that the meeting at the Pentagon was to ensure that Trump’s national security leadership was in “alignment” on potential outcomes in Venezuela.

White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said there were no announcements to make coming out of the Pentagon meeting, but reiterated that all options remained open.

“The president is going to do what is required, if necessary,” Sanders said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...+World+News%29

----------


## raycarey

> The president is going to do what is required, if necessary, Sanders said


oh...well...thanks for clarifying.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## OhOh

A clip illustrating what rank and file Venezuelan police/ military think of the offers from the coup leader;

https://twitter.com/JUVENEX_/status/1124803043965448192

----------


## Klondyke

*Another ‘Jolly Little War’?

*Written by Eric MARGOLIS on 04/05/2019

Sure. Let’s invade Venezuela. Another jolly little war. It’s full of commies and has a sea of oil. The only thing those Cuban-loving Venezuelans lack are weapons of mass destruction.

This week, leading US neocons openly threatened that if the CIA’s latest attempts to stage a coup to overthrow Venezuela’s Maduro government failed, Washington might send in the Marines.

Well, the coup was a big fiasco and the Venezuelan army didn’t overthrow President Maduro. The CIA also failed to overthrow governments in Moscow, Tehran and Damascus. Its only ‘success’ to date has been in overthrowing Ukraine’s pro-Moscow government and putting a bunch of corrupt clowns in its place at a cost near $10 billion.

The US has not waged a major successful war since World War II – unless you count invading Grenada, Panama and Haiti, or bombing the hell out of Iraq, Syria, Somalia and Libya. That’s a sobering thought given the Pentagon’s recent announcement that it is cutting back on little colonial wars (aka ‘the war on terror’) to get ready for real big wars against Russia and China, or even North Korea.

Venezuela is in a huge economic mess thanks to the crackpot economic policies of the Chavez and Maduro governments – and US economic sabotage. But my first law of international affairs is: ‘Every nation has the absolute god-given right to mismanage its own affairs and elect its own crooks or idiots.’

Now, however, the administration’s frenzied neocons want to start a war against Venezuela, a large, developed nation of 32.7 million, at the same time we are threatening war against Iran, interfering all around Africa, and confronting Russia, China and perhaps North Korea. Large parts of the Mideast and Afghanistan lie in ruins thanks to our ‘liberation’ campaigns.

Invading Venezuela would not be much of a problem for the US military: half the population hates the current government and might welcome the Americans. Venezuela’s military has only limited combat value. Right-wing regimes in neighboring Colombia and Brazil might join the invasion.

But what then? Recall Iraq. The US punched through the feeble Iraqi Army whose strength had been wildly exaggerated by the media. Once US and British forces settled in to occupation duties, guerilla forces made their life difficult and bloody. Iraqi resistance continues today, sixteen years later. The same would likely happen in Venezuela.

There is deep anti-American sentiment in Latin America that existed long before Col. Chavez. Recall, for example, the large anti-American riots that greeted Vice President Nixon’s visit to Caracas in 1958.

‘Yankees Go Home’ is a rallying cry for much of Latin America. Blundering into Venezuela, another nation about which the Trump administration knows or understands little, would stir up a hornet’s next. Their ham-handed efforts to punish Cuba and whip up the far right Cuban-American vote in Florida would galvanize anti-American anger across Latin America. Beware the ghost of Fidel.

Talks over Venezuela are underway between Washington and Moscow. Neither country has any major interest in Venezuela. Moscow is stirring the pot there to retaliate for growing US involvement in Russia’s backyard and Syria. Both the US and Russia should get the hell out of Venezuela and mind their own business.

Instead, we hear crazy proposals to send 5,000 mercenaries to overthrow the Maduro regime. How well did the wide-scale use of US-financed mercenaries work in Iraq and Afghanistan? A complete flop. The only thing they did competently was wash dishes at our bases, murder civilians, and play junior Rambos.

For those who don’t like the American Raj, a US invasion of Venezuela would mark a step forward in the crumbling of the empire. More aimless imperial over-reach, more lack of strategy, more enemies generated.

The big winner would, of course, be the Pentagon and military industrial complex. More billions spent on a nation most Americans could not find on a map if their lives depended on it, more orders for ‘counter-insurgency’ weapons, more military promotions, and cheers from Fox News and wrestling fans.

Worst of all, the US could end up feeding and caring for wrecked Venezuela. How did we do with storm-ravaged Puerto Rico? It’s still in semi-ruin. Few want Venezuela’s thick, heavy oil these days.

Venezuela could turn out to be a big, fat Tar Baby.

https://orientalreview.org/2019/05/0...ly-little-war/

----------


## Klondyke

*Vice president of Venezuela’s opposition-controlled legislature detained in Caracas – report
*Published time: 9 May, 2019



The vice president of Venezuela’s National Assembly has reportedly been escorted to the HQ of the country’s intelligence agency. Opposition leader Juan Guaido accused Caracas of “kidnapping” the lawmaker.

Edgar Zambrano, the vice president of the opposition-controlled legislature, was apparently taken into custody by the Venezuelan authorities. The lawmaker tweeted Wednesday evening that he was approached by members of the SEBIN intelligence agency, who surrounded his car and demanded he leave the vehicle. Zambrano said that after he refused the order, the agents towed his car to the agency's main offices in Caracas.

https://www.rt.com/news/458831-venez...dent-detained/

----------


## Klondyke

*Top economists & UN experts condemn US sanctions on Venezuela. Not newsworthy enough for the media?
*8 May 2019Demonstrators and activists gather to protest against a US led intervention in Venezuela in front of the White House on March 16, 2019.

As the Trump administration continues to wage economic warfare against Venezuela, experts and economists continue to slam the illegal and deadly measures — and the media continues to completely ignore their warnings.
To experiment, simply Google the phrase “condemns US sanctions” (with the quote marks) and you’ll quickly learn from multiple mainstream media sources that North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba and Russia are not big fans of US sanctions. It's an easy, uncomplicated narrative: Washington punishes the ‘bad guys’ and the bad guys complain about it.

It seems Google knows less about the UN Human Rights Council, which has explicitly condemned US sanctions on Venezuela, stating that they are “disproportionately affecting the poor and the most vulnerable classes.”

The individual UN experts and economists who have spoken out about the fatal effects of sanctions on civilians are hardly front and center in the coverage, either — that is, if they are lucky enough to garner any at all. Turn on any mainstream US news channel and the situation is even worse, as so-called analysts cheerlead endlessly for regime change across the airwaves.

The latest high-profile figure to speak out against US economic warfare is Idriss Jazairy, UN rapporteur on sanctions and human rights. Not mincing his words, he denounced US “regime change through economic measures” and said Washington was making “pawns and hostages” out of ordinary people. Such economic strangulation, he warned, leads directly to “denial of basic human rights” and has “never been an accepted practice of international relations.”

One would think such comments might arouse interest from journalists, who are (supposedly) concerned with the human rights of Venezuelans. Seems not. No major US outlet has picked up on Jazairy’s statement.

A little more luck was had by former UN rapporteur to Venezuela and international law expert Alfred de Zayas, when he spoke out against the “direct nexus” between sanctions and death. His comments garnered some coverage in the UK and Irish press (Independent and Examiner) but major US media again showed little interest. Are you noticing a pattern here?

More recently, analysis by prominent economists Mark Weisbrot and Jeffrey Sachs for the Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR), found that US sanctions have led directly to the premature deaths of 40,000 Venezuelans. The sanctions also “fit the definition of collective punishment of the civilian population” under the Geneva and Hague Conventions, the report said.

That report was dutifully buried by most of the media, too. Fox News did deign to cover it briefly, but only to dismiss it as a spurious “attack” on the Trump administration by kooky left-wing thinkers.

Most US journalists have also ignored an open letter signed by 70 scholars, including Noam Chomsky, condemning the sanctions. They have also given no mention to human rights NGO Fundalatin, which has special status at the UN and concluded that US measures are “one of the fundamental causes” of the country's worsening economic crisis.

Yet, instead of even minimally honest coverage, the media continues to discuss sanctions as though they are a squishier and softer method of intervention that target only the elite and ultimately help the poor — or, if they’re feeling really bold and adventurous, they frame the measures as a kind of necessary or lesser evil than all-out war (how generous!).

They don’t like to be called out on their misleading coverage, either. Media and political figures were apoplectic with rage last week, when rogue freshman Congresswoman Ilhan Omar (D-Minnesota) dared to denounce US “bullying” of Venezuela and said the use of sanctions added to the economic “devastation.” They had plenty of airtime to denounce Omar for saying something they don’t like — not so much to actually report on the facts.

But these condemnations are not merely ‘opinions’ or speculation. It’s a simple fact that the measures used by the US to strangle and starve Venezuela’s economy are illegal, destructive and greatly exacerbating an already dire economic crisis. No matter how hard the media may try, there is no way to convincingly claim that they do not hurt ordinary citizens, because such a claim is simply contrary to reality. It’s classic US regime change strategy; make life as miserable as possible for civilians in an effort to force a popular uprising, making it easier to install a puppet of Washington in the target country.

Just imagine for a second, that de Zayas, Jazairy, Weisbrot, Sachs and others were condemning ‘Russian sanctions’ on some other struggling population. The outrage would be plastered across the front pages of newspapers and bellowing endlessly from CNN, MSNBC and Fox News.

Watchdogs like FAIR and Media Lens have highlighted the media’s failure to accurately cover sanctions and their deadly results, but the morally bankrupt reporting was hardly unexpected; it’s simply an extension of their jingoistic coverage of the crisis in general, which has been filled with lies and misrepresentations.

A FAIR survey of US opinion journalism on Venezuela conducted between January and April found that a total of zero opinion pieces in the New York Times or Washington Post took positions against regime change — and the situation was much the same on TV. FAIR called corporate news coverage of Venezuela “a full-scale marketing campaign for regime change” — in other words, war propaganda.

It is utterly baffling how a media which decried Trump as an evil maniac over comments about immigrants from “sh*thole countries” like El Salvador and Haiti and a Latin American “invasion” at the southern border, could now suddenly turn around and unquestioningly believe that his entire administration has the best interests of the Venezuelan people at heart, even after top officials have admitted publicly that the number one US priority in Venezuela is access to oil for US corporations.

Yet, that is the level of voluntary delusion we are dealing with when it comes to US interventions and regime change — the one topic that can whip Democrats, Republicans and the entire media up into a disturbing nationalistic fervor.

Trump administration officials met at the Pentagon last week to discuss “military options” for Venezuela, perhaps ready to up their game from cruel economic warfare to something even worse — and once again, we can count on the media to bang the war drums alongside them.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/458804-medi...ela-sanctions/

----------


## Klondyke

One of the few who dare to call the things by their real names:

*Ron PAUL

**Nuclear War? Over Venezuela?*_How ironic that Pompeo and the rest of the neocons in the Trump Administration are ready to attack Venezuela to “restore their constitution” but they could not care less about our own Constitution!_

Is President Trump about to invade Venezuela? His advisors keep telling us in ever-stronger terms that “all options are on the table” and that US military intervention to restore Venezuela’s constitution “may be necessary.” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was on the Sunday news programs to claim that President Trump could launch a military attack against Venezuela without Congress’s approval.

Pompeo said that, "[t]he president has his full range of Article II authorities and I'm very confident that any action we took in Venezuela would be lawful." The man who bragged recently about his lying, cheating, and stealing, is giving plenty of evidence to back his claim.

The president has no Constitutional authority to start a war with Venezuela or any other country that has not attacked or credibly threatened the United States without Congressional approval. It is that simple.

How ironic that Pompeo and the rest of the neocons in the Trump Administration are ready to attack Venezuela to “restore their constitution” but they could not care less about our own Constitution!

While Washington has been paralyzed for two years over disproven claims that the Russians meddled in our elections to elect Trump, how hypocritical that Washington does not even hesitate to endorse the actual overturning of elections overseas!

Without Congressional authority, US military action of any kind against Venezuela would be an illegal and likely an impeachable offense. Of course those Democrats who talk endlessly of impeaching Trump would never dream of impeaching of him over starting an ilIs President Trump about to invade Venezuela? His advisors keep telling us in ever-stronger terms that “all options are on the table” and that US military intervention to restore Venezuela’s constitution “may be necessary.” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was on the Sunday news programs to claim that President Trump could launch a military attack against Venezuela without Congress’s approval.

Pompeo said that, "[t]he president has his full range of Article II authorities and I'm very confident that any action we took in Venezuela would be lawful." The man who bragged recently about his lying, cheating, and stealing, is giving plenty of evidence to back his claim.

The president has no Constitutional authority to start a war with Venezuela or any other country that has not attacked or credibly threatened the United States without Congressional approval. It is that simple.

How ironic that Pompeo and the rest of the neocons in the Trump Administration are ready to attack Venezuela to “restore their constitution” but they could not care less about our own Constitution!

While Washington has been paralyzed for two years over disproven claims that the Russians meddled in our elections to elect Trump, how hypocritical that Washington does not even hesitate to endorse the actual overturning of elections overseas!

Without Congressional authority, US military action of any kind against Venezuela would be an illegal and likely an impeachable offense. Of course those Democrats who talk endlessly of impeaching Trump would never dream of impeaching of him over starting an illegal war. Democrats and Republicans both love illegal US wars.

Unfortunately, Washington is so addicted to war that President Trump would likely have little difficulty getting authority from Congress to invade Venezuela if he bothered to ask. Just as with the disastrous US invasion of Iraq in 2003, the mainstream media is nothing but non-stop war propaganda. Even so-called progressives like Rachel Maddow are attacking the Trump Administration not for its reckless saber-rattling toward Venezuela but for not being aggressive enough!

The real lesson is that even a “Constitutional” war against Venezuela would not be a just war. It would be a war of aggression for which Americans should be angry and ashamed. But the mainstream media is pumping out the same old pro-war lies, while the independent media is under attack from social media companies that have partnered with US government entities to decide what is “fake news.”

The latest outrage in the mainstream media is over the most sensible thing President Trump has done in some time: last week he spent an hour on the telephone with Russian President Vladimir Putin to discuss, among other things, the dangerous situation in Venezuela.

While President Trump’s neocon advisors are purposely trying to position him so that war is the only option, we can only hope that President Putin was able to explain that the Venezuela problem must be solved by the Venezuelans themselves. Certainly the US, perhaps together with the Russians, could help facilitate discussions between the government and the opposition, but the neocon road to war will surely end up like all the other neocon wars: total disaster.

The media is furious that Trump dared to speak to Putin as the two countries increasingly face-off over Venezuela. The Democrats and neocons are pushing for a direct confrontation that may even involve Russia. Republicans agree. Do they really prefer thermonuclear war? Over Venezuela? legal war. Democrats and Republicans both love illegal US wars.

Unfortunately, Washington is so addicted to war that President Trump would likely have little difficulty getting authority from Congress to invade Venezuela if he bothered to ask. Just as with the disastrous US invasion of Iraq in 2003, the mainstream media is nothing but non-stop war propaganda. Even so-called progressives like Rachel Maddow are attacking the Trump Administration not for its reckless saber-rattling toward Venezuela but for not being aggressive enough!

The real lesson is that even a “Constitutional” war against Venezuela would not be a just war. It would be a war of aggression for which Americans should be angry and ashamed. But the mainstream media is pumping out the same old pro-war lies, while the independent media is under attack from social media companies that have partnered with US government entities to decide what is “fake news.”

The latest outrage in the mainstream media is over the most sensible thing President Trump has done in some time: last week he spent an hour on the telephone with Russian President Vladimir Putin to discuss, among other things, the dangerous situation in Venezuela.

While President Trump’s neocon advisors are purposely trying to position him so that war is the only option, we can only hope that President Putin was able to explain that the Venezuela problem must be solved by the Venezuelans themselves. Certainly the US, perhaps together with the Russians, could help facilitate discussions between the government and the opposition, but the neocon road to war will surely end up like all the other neocon wars: total disaster.

The media is furious that Trump dared to speak to Putin as the two countries increasingly face-off over Venezuela. The Democrats and neocons are pushing for a direct confrontation that may even involve Russia. Republicans agree. Do they really prefer thermonuclear war? Over Venezuela?

The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : A Nuclear War? Over Venezuela?

----------


## OhOh



----------


## Klondyke

^ a good one. Only I think that some other puppet masters should join (please no names here)...

----------


## OhOh



----------


## Hugh Cow

> He's funny ain't he.
> 
> The windbag reminds me of...


Thanks Harry. So Elgar started the first world war. who would've thought. I feel so enlightened now.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Thanks Harry. So Elgar started the first world war. who would've thought. I feel so enlightened now.


Yeah. What a bastard.

----------


## OhOh

An article whose headline is probably enough.

*The Limits of American Destructiveness* https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/...ctiveness.html


The conclusion:

_"US actions around the world can now be compiled into two lists. 

The  first list is of what the US has succeeded or may yet succeed in  wrecking. 

The second list is of what the US wants to or has been trying  to wreck but won't be able to. 

There is no third list of what the US has  managed to wreck and then make whole again. 

The challenge for the whole  world is to move as many items as possible from the first list to the  second list. There are many ways of going about doing this that do have a  chance of working and one that doesn’t: negotiating with Americans.  Because they lie and cheat and aren’t worth talking to."_

----------


## Klondyke

(However, the Brazil president Bolsonaro still supports Guaido...)

*Brazil snubs Venezuelan opposition envoy as doubts rise on Guaido
*31 May 2019

BRASILIA (Reuters) - Brazil withdrew an invitation to the envoy for Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido to present her diplomatic credentials, she said on Friday, and the government in Brasilia said it would decide later whether to accept them.

Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro still recognises Guaido as the legitimate president of Venezuela, his spokesman said. Guaido's envoy, Maria Teresa Belandria, played down the idea that the snub reflected scepticism from Bolsonaro's government.

Diplomatic analysts said mounting evidence that a change of government in Venezuela is not imminent may have Bolsonaro and his aides wondering if they overplayed their support for Guaido.

Former military officers making up about a third of Brazil's cabinet have been wary of provoking Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, warning against moves that could tip an economic and political crisis into violence across Brazil's northern border.

Belandria had been invited to present her credentials at the presidential palace along with ambassadors from other countries next Tuesday, but the government changed its mind.

"I was uninvited," she told Reuters, but went on to dismiss any suggestion the snub reflected diminished support for Guaido.

"There will be another opportunity," she said. "Brazil's support continues to be strong, solid and decisive. It's merely a protocol matter."

Presidential spokesman General Otavio Rego Barros said Belandria was the representative of Venezuela's "legitimate president" and denied an invitation had been withdrawn.

"Reception or not of the letters of accreditation will be assessed at a more convenient moment," he told Reuters.

Brazilian newspapers Folha de S.Paulo and O Globo reported that Bolsonaro's government had cancelled her invitation because ex-military aides want to pursue dialogue with Maduro, who also has an official representative in Brasilia.

"They realize Brazil has to deal with the reality that Maduro is not going anywhere right now and, even if he leaves, Guaido will not be president and a general will likely take his place," said Oliver Stuenkel, a professor of foreign relations at the Getulio Vargas Foundation in São Paulo.

Read more
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/brazil-wit...150919001.html

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## OhOh

> Brazil's support continues to be strong,


Apparently not by its former and I hear current military. Who are judged by victorious deliverables.




> because ex-military aides want to pursue dialogue with Maduro,

----------


## Klondyke

After all this again:

*Socialism Wins - Venezuela Crushes USA In "Friendly" Soccer Match

*In a stunningly humiliating match, USA men's soccer team just got dramatically outplayed by the hyperinflation-crushed, social-unrest-suffering Venezuela team.



Coming off a surprising 1-0 loss to Jamaica with a fringe squad, the USA conceded three times in the first half against La Vinotinto and fell by a 3-0 scoreline in front of almost 24,000 at Nippert Stadium.

At one point the American commentator on Fox Sports proclaimed: "this is hard to watch."

We suspect not so much for the socialists, who watched their team win for the first time in the last five games, leaving USA without a win since March.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...y-soccer-match

----------


## Klondyke

(wouldn't you pity him?)
*
Forced to Bathe With a Bucket of Water, Juan Guaido Soldiers On


*On Thursday, Juan Guaido woke up and doused himself with a bucket of water.

It was his shower. Like millions of Venezuelans, the man who dozens of countries recognize as the legitimate leader of his broken country can’t rely on the taps to run. “It’s one of the things I hate most,” the 35-year-old lawmaker said in an interview. “It’s a symbol of poverty, and during much of my life I had to do it.”

And yet, he was for the most part characteristically upbeat, exuding that can-do spirit that his followers love and his detractors find naive, as he talked about how Venezuela would have to tolerate much more suffering in order to topple Nicolas Maduro’s autocratic regime. Despite the pain, he said, the U.S. shouldn’t ease up on the sanctions that are deepening the worst economic crisis in the country’s history.

“It’s going to get worse” before things turn, he warned.

Ultimately, he insisted, the opposition movement, rekindled after he became leader of the National Assembly in January, would succeed. New elections could be held in six or nine months because the pressure simply won’t let up on Maduro’s closest collaborators to break ranks, he said.

Failed Uprising

Considering the current state of affairs, those proclamations sounded excessively optimistic, even by Guaido’s standards. After he botched a military uprising in late April, his movement lost momentum. Many of his closest allies are either detained, taking refuge at foreign embassies or in exile.

Even Guaido himself, a man who the U.S. has worked hard to protect, has been on the run, changing locations every few weeks to keep one step ahead of Maduro’s security forces. On Thursday, Guaido gave the interview from a barren office with a pitch-dark entrance closely guarded by burly bodyguards in a building in Eastern Caracas. Between calls and meetings he sat at a table and watched a video of his 2-year-old daughter.

Click here to read more quotes from the interview.

Over an impromptu lunch served in Styrofoam containers, he defended the opposition’s strategy and dismissed critics who have complained the bid to oust Maduro is losing momentum, or even stalling.

“We have to push forward,” Guaido said. “Their persecution has not made a difference in doing politics, but it has made it more complex and much harder to do in terms of getting support in the streets."

‘Guaido Effect’

Early in the year, the “Guaido Effect” sent real estate prices soaring and stocks rallying on expectations that Maduro was on his way out. That didn’t last, and Guaido’s approval rating in opinions polls has dropped by about 5 percentage points since February to 56.5%. While it’s something to pay attention to, it’s worth noting he wasn’t even in the running months ago, he said, and Maduro is at historic lows.

Guaido has received unprecedented support from the Trump administration, which has issued sanctions against individuals, the oil industry, the gold trade and the central bank. The lawmaker stressed, though, that the blame for the misery in Venezuela -- 24-hour lines to buy gasoline, food rotting from blackouts, widespread hunger -- rests squarely with Maduro. Any lifting of sanctions to help end the suffering would only “normalize” the crisis.

Among the world powers not backing him are China and Russia, major Venezuelan creditors. Guaido said that recent declarations by both nations showed a softening in their stance and signaled a willingness to find a solution.

He didn’t seem to be bothered by a report that U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo blamed opposition infighting for impeding progress in removing Maduro and predicted that if he falls, as many as 40 people will vie for the presidency.

“We’re united in the desire and need to get rid of Maduro,” Guaido said. “If 40 people want to compete for the presidency, they’re welcome to. That’s democracy.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...do-soldiers-on

----------


## HuangLao

Noticing how this Venezuelan mess/issue has been quickly and conveniently removed from the establishment press and the people's five minute attention span. 
Easy enough for the controllers.


Still remains quite relevant and newsworthy among a few hard-line alternative media sources, though.

----------


## OhOh

> Forced to Bathe With a Bucket of Water


SOP  here when the local rivers are low and no piped supply/pipe flushing  maintenance. Always have a full large plastic storage bucket topped up,  with an anti-mosquito lid.  :Smile:

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## Klondyke

Damn Maduro again (but nothing in Venezuela this time?):

*Massive blackout hits tens of millions in South America

*BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) — A massive blackout left tens of millions of people without electricity in Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay on Sunday in what the Argentine president called an “unprecedented” failure in the countries’ power grid.

Authorities were working frantically to restore power, and by the evening electricity had returned to 98 percent of Argentina, according to state news agency Telam. Power also had been restored to most of Uruguay’s 3 million people as well as to people in neighboring Paraguay.

On Sunday morning, Argentine voters were forced to cast ballots by the light of cellphones in gubernatorial elections. Public transportation was halted, shops closed and patients dependent on home medical equipment were urged to go to hospitals with generators.

https://apnews.com/a29b1da1a91542faa91d68cf8e97a34d

----------


## Klondyke

Also by Maduro?

*Target’s tech trouble clogs stores with long checkout lines*



Customers wait on a long check out line at a Target store in San Francisco on Saturday, June 15, 2019. Target suffered a technological glitch that stalled checkout lines at its stores worldwide Saturday, exasperating shoppers and eating into sales at a prime time for retailers. The outage periodically prevented Target's cashiers from scanning merchandise or processing transactions. Self-checkout registers also weren't working at times, causing massive lines in some stores. (AP Photo/Michael Liedtke)

https://apnews.com/64c160b310bc492aa48e8d912c8bf45c

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## OhOh

> Also by Maduro?


I'm sure MI6 can provide a juicy dossier and fit up any country on demand. Very experienced I hear and cheap as chips.

----------


## OhOh

*Poll Finds Maduro's Domestic Support Stronger After Coup Attempt & US Pressures*_"A new poll has found that after emerging victorious in Venezuela's  recent US-backed failed coup attempt led by opposition leader Juan  Gaido, socialist leader Nicolas Maduro commands a popular majority of  Venezuelans' recognition as the legal head of the country, even after  over 50 countries rejected his January reelection as invalid. 
__The five-month political stalemate appears to be "subtly helping" Maduro, according to a Miami Herald report  of a new Datincorp poll conducted over the weekend, even after dozens  of countries have followed America's lead in recognizing only Guaido as  the "interim present". 

The poll found that a majority 41% of Venezuelans consider Maduro the country’s “constitutional president” against 36% who recognize Guaido."These numbers were significantly up from February, when 49% at the time  said Guaido was the true leader, versus 34% that backed Maduro. The  latest poll further suggests that though the country is still deeply  divided, with a cash-poor economy and smashed infrastructure - including  electricity rationing and fuel shortages to boot - the aggressive US  rhetoric and pressures demanding Maduro relinquish power has only served to hurt the opposition's domestic standing."

_
More at;

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...t-us-pressures

Data Source :

https://www.datincorp.com/

----------


## Klondyke

*U.N. rights chief Bachelet urges Venezuela to release prisoners*

MAIQUETIA, Venezuela, 22 Jun (Reuters) - U.N. human rights chief Michelle Bachelet on Friday urged Venezuela’s government to release prisoners who were arrested for peacefully protesting, and confirmed that a delegation would remain in the country to monitor the human rights situation.

Bachelet, a former Chilean president who arrived in Caracas on Wednesday for a three-day visit, met with President Nicolas Maduro and opposition leader Juan Guaido, as well as activists and victims of human rights violations.

“It was deeply painful to hear the desire of the victims, of their families, to obtain justice in the face of serious human rights violations,” said Bachelet in a press conference at the Maiquetia international airport before leaving Venezuela.

“I hope that our evaluation, our cooperation, and our assistance  will help reinforce the prevention of torture and access to justice in Venezuela.”

Bachelet’s visit, at the government’s invitation, came ahead of the opening on Monday of a three-week session of the U.N. Human Rights Council.

Western nations are expected to use the session to heap criticism on Maduro, amid the economic meltdown in his nation that has triggered the flight of some 4 million refugees.

Bachelet, in a speech to the U.N. Human Rights Council in March, said Venezuelan security forces, backed by pro-government militias, had quashed peaceful protests with excessive use of force, killings and torture.

Guaido, head of the opposition-controlled legislature, assumed a rival interim presidency in January, denouncing Maduro as an usurper who had secured re-election last year in a vote widely considered fraudulent.

Earlier on Friday, Guaido told reporters that two members of Bachelet’s team would remain in Venezuela to investigate issues relating to chronic shortages of food and medicine, along with allegations the Maduro administration has violated human rights while cracking down on the opposition.

Maduro, a socialist who says he is the victim of an attempted U.S.-led coup, retains the support of the armed forces and controls state functions.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKCN1TM2BR

----------


## pseudolus

https://www.mintpressnews.com/popula...future/259283/

Yankee puppet and his gang caught knicking money and blowing it on drugs and partying with hookers. 




> CUCUTAGATE
> *Massive Embezzlement Scandal Threatens Juan Guaido’s Political Future*
> The big event that was supposed to be Guaido’s watershed moment has instead turned out to be a public-relations failure far worse than his quickly quelled attempted military coup.
> 
> he political party of Juan Guaido — Voluntad Popular (Popular Will) — was never all that popular to begin with. The sixth largest political party in Venezuela, Popular Will is heavily financed by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID). Now, a recently exposed embezzlement scandal in Colombia risks to further alienate the party from the Venezuelan people.
> 
> 
> What was supposed to be Guaido’s watershed moment has instead turned out to be a public-relations failure far worse than his quickly quelled attempted military coup, which MintPress News reported caused even the New York Times to describe Guaido as “deflated.”
> 
> ...



not on CNN yet, so therefore it didn't happen. 



Watch the birdie Harry - don't pay attention to anything other than CNN and the BBC tells you.

----------


## Klondyke

*Uruguay walks out of OAS assembly over Guaido envoy inclusion

*Medellin, Colombia - The Uruguayan delegation walked out of the Organization of American States (OAS) General Assembly on Thursday morning in protest of the inclusion of representatives of Venezuela's political opposition in the regional body.

Mexico, Bolivia, Trinidad and Tobago and others also denounced the participation of the Venezuelan delegation, exposing objections to OAS leadership's strategy of alliance with Venezuela's opposition, led by Juan Guaido.

"It doesn't help anything," said Uruguay's representative, Ariel Bergamino, after he left the assembly.

"It's a violation of this institution to try to make decisions about who is the legitimate government," Bergamino said, adding he would not participate in the rest of assembly, which lasts until Friday. 

Bergamino said the assembly should aim to help Venezuela "construct a climate of trust" that could foster a political solution and blasted the leadership of Secretary-General Luis Almagro, who has accepted Venezuela's political opposition and dismissed the idea of negotiations with Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro.

Guaido invoked Venezuela's constitution in January to declare himself interim president, calling Maduro's 2018 re-election illegitimate. Maduro has accused Guaido and the United States, who supports the Venezuelan opposition, of staging a coup. 

No country at the OAS proposed the inclusion of Maduro's government, which formally withdrew from the regional group in 2017. But some said it was improper to invite the political opposition, which operates no effective control over Venezuela, to sit among sovereign governments.

The group's permanent council voted to recognise Guaido's envoy in April. 

Millions have left Venezuela in recent years, fleeing hyperinflation, unemployment and food and medicine shortages.

On Wednesday, the assembly said the crisis in Venezuela should be the region's top priority. Member countries called on the international community to help provide aid to the country's migrants and refugees.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...191520096.html

----------


## OhOh

*Reality’s dawning on US media that Venezuela coup failed & Maduro’s stronger – what next, ask Russia to ‘ease him out’?* 




_"Almost a year on from the Trump administration’s failed bid to  oust Venezuela’s socialist leader, the media is scrambling to make sense  of where it all went wrong – and finally admitting that Nicolas Maduro  is going nowhere.      

When the “virtually unknown” US-backed opposition figure Juan Guaido declared himself “interim president” in January, he won instant support from Washington’s global allies as the “legitimate”  leader of Venezuela. Western media was soon consumed with a sense of  hopeful anticipation that Washington was on the verge of overthrowing  another ‘bad actor’ and preparing to pat itself on the back for  supporting the cause of “democracy” and “human rights.”

Change of tune

Now,  nearly a year later, the sense is one of reluctant resignation and an  admission that, despite best efforts, another attempt at ‘regime change’  has failed – and that Guaido’s opposition was not all it was cracked up  to be.

In a recent lament for the failed coup, the Wall Street Journal admits that Maduro appears to be “in firm control” and bemoans that the Trump administration had predicted his “imminent downfall” too early. The WSJ admits that the White House showed “excessive optimism” and suffered from what critics called “unrealistic expectations that [US] pressure tactics”  would easily force Maduro from power.

 The newspaper acknowledges that  Maduro’s position is secure despite debilitating US oil sanctions and  attempted international isolation.

It’s a common pattern and one  analysts watching US regime-change efforts around the world know all too  well. The same script played out in Syria as Washington and its allies  predicted the swift downfall of President Bashar Assad as early as 2012,  but are still waiting today, causing Foreign Policy magazine to admit recently that he is now Syria’s “best case scenario” after US efforts to install “moderate” jihadis into power failed.

What went wrong?

In  Venezuela, US media is even starting to admit that the troubled economy  is showing signs of improvement under Maduro, thanks to an uptick in  oil exports and increased dollarization, while the Guaido-led opposition  grapples with its own corruption scandal, proving to Venezuelans that  it may not be an “honest alternative” to Maduro at all.

The WSJ points to the removal of former national security adviser John Bolton (one of Maduro’s “staunchest adversaries”)  as part of the reason why US efforts failed. It also points to the  eruption of anti-government protest movements across the region, in  Ecuador, Bolivia and Chile, which it says allowed Maduro to distract  from his own “misrule” and food and medicine shortages. Though  there is no mention of how crippling US sanctions directly impacted the  lives of ordinary Venezuelans, despite a study showing that they’ve caused “very serious harm to human life and health” including an estimated 40,000 deaths.

Determined  not to admit defeat, top US envoy to Venezuela Elliott Abrams, whose  career has been defined by repeated efforts to topple uncooperative  leaders in Latin America, told the paper that it was “flatly wrong” to assume things were improving for “precarious” Maduro – but reality seems to tell a different story.

What to do next?

A recent piece published by Bloomberg gives an indication  of where US policy on Venezuela may be headed next – and it’s another  familiar road. When all options are exhausted and failed, it seems the  next step is always to look to Russia for help.

Sources “familiar with the matter” told Bloomberg that the Trump administration is “losing confidence” that Guaido can ever topple Maduro and, as such, is considering “new and more aggressive strategies.” One of those strategies, they said, would be “an attempt to partner with Russia” –an ally of Maduro– in order to “ease out” the leader. 

This  has echoes of US policy in Syria, too, where Washington repeatedly  demanded that Moscow change its strategy and abandon its support of  Assad – before eventually seeming to admit that ousting him should no  longer be a top priority.

Indeed, there was a time when Western  media were suggesting that, under US pressure, Moscow could help push  Assad out, too. There were even reports  that Russian President Vladimir Putin had asked the Syrian leader to  step down. Nothing came of that pipe dream and a US effort to partner  with Russia to push out Maduro seems equally likely to fail, since  Moscow has remained supportive of the democratically-elected leader and  shown no indication that it takes “interim president” Guaido very seriously.

While  US media is still largely reluctant to offer the perspective of  pro-Maduro Venezuelans or analysts who point out that Washington’s  policies have wreaked havoc on Latin America for decades – they are at  least finally painting a picture closer to reality."_

https://www.rt.com/news/475434-venez...uro-wsj-media/

----------


## harrybarracuda

I think the US is quite happy sitting back watching Vlad and the chinkies trying to work out how on earth they are going to get their money back.

----------


## OhOh

Well they have the time to wait or tweak their offerings, unlike the current failure in the white house daily outlook.

The top 4 South American countries are currently producing 3,000,000 new customers.

Out of the  230 odd world countries. The first two "western countries",  Turkey and Ireland at Nos. 92 and 93, Most are sub 1.0%.


Country
Population
Pct of
total
Annual growth
Doubling
time
(years)[a]

Rate
Increment

 Brazil
211,684,941
49.4%
0.75%
1,587,637
93

 Colombia
50,613,389
11.8%
1.37%
693,403
51

 Argentina
44,949,597
10.5%
0.95%
427,021
73

 Peru
32,721,300
7.63%
1.63%
533,357



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_population

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## harrybarracuda

WTF are you on about now?

----------


## OhOh

The comparison of "western population growth" relative to South American. A growing population requires education, jobs, .... for it's own citizens. Importing masses of immigrants, although superficially a new workforce, we are seeing many problems that are introduced into the new host countries.

Far better to provide opportunities in their own countries and keep the poor huddled masses there, rather than allowing them to traipse through continents hoping to reach, a now fracturing, "niverna".

South America has been exploited but not "developed" it's citizens have yet to rise to "western" levels in terms of purchasing power .... As we have seen in China and Russia, some countries can reshape themselves and improve their average citizens spending ability.

The old "western" rape and pillage is being replaced.

There is no reason the whole world cannot reach the "dizzy heights" of western countries. It will require time, it will require change, guidance and help.

Not being bombed back to the stone age, "because it's worth it", as belived morally acceptable, in some societies "democratically elected" leaders minds.

----------


## harrybarracuda

You really a fucking weirdo.

 :rofl:

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## OhOh

Not as, allegedly, the German/Japanes/UK/ameristani scientists of yesteryear. 

Just scientists doing a few experiments on humans.

----------


## Klondyke

Surprise, surprise...

*Caracas Caves, Releases Jailed American Citgo Executives
*
 Dec 10, 2019

enezuela has released six Citgo executives who were arrested and sent to jail on charges of corruption two years ago, Reuters reports, citing unnamed sources. The prison sentences have apparently been replaced with house arrest, the source said.

The executives—all of them U.S. citizens, five of them with dual citizenship—were first arrested in 2017 and were only brought to court in the middle of 2019, after 18 months in prison. During that hearing, the presiding judge accepted the prosecution’s request for a trial on corruption charges without setting a date.

At the time of the arrest, U.S. authorities requested that its nationals be released, but Venezuela’s President Nicolas Maduro refused, saying “These are people born in Venezuela, they’re Venezuelan and they’re going to be judged for being corrupt, thieving traitors.”

According to opposition sources, however, the arrests were not about corruption, but about infighting in the Communist Party as well as an attempt by the government to get its hands on profitable companies to patch up its budget, currently in tatters and with no great improvement prospects.

Reuters reports that U.S. Vice-President Mike Pence and two senators had called on Maduro to release the Citgo executives on worry about their health, after Pence earlier this year met with the families of the arrested men who asked for the U.S. government’s help in the matter.

According to the sources, the six executives—including five former vice presidents of Citgo and a former president—will be banned from leaving Venezuela. No reasons for the release have been provided by Venezuelan authorities.

Citgo, in the meantime, has passed under the control of opposition leader Juan Guaidó with the help of Washington, which was the first government to recognize Guaidó as the legitimate, albeit interim, president of Venezuela, after earlier this year he declared himself interim president until new elections are called.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-N...xecutives.html

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## Klondyke

*How an ex-Green Beret organized a 'private coup' funded by US billionaires to remove Venezuela's Maduro and trained 300 soldiers in Colombia before it spectacularly fell apart
*2 May 2020
A secret military operation to overthrow Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro Moros has fallen apart

The operation failed due to skimpy planning, feuding among opposition politicians and a poorly trained force

The ringleader, retired Venezuelan General Cliver Alcalá, is now jailed in the US on narcotics charges

Meanwhile, authorities in the US and Colombia are asking questions about the role of Alcalá's American adviser, former Green Beret Jordan Goudreau

A secret military operation to overthrow Venezuelan dictator Nicolás Maduro Moros was simple, but perilous. 

Some 300 heavily armed volunteers would sneak into Venezuela from the northern tip of South America. Along the way, they would raid military bases in the socialist country and ignite a popular rebellion that would end in President Nicolás Maduro's arrest.

What could go wrong? As it turns out, pretty much everything.

The ringleader of the plot is now jailed in the US on narcotics charges. Authorities in the US and Colombia are asking questions about the role of his muscular American adviser, former Green Beret Jordan Goudreau.  

And dozens of desperate combatants who flocked to secret training camps in Colombia said they have been left to fend for themselves amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Read more
Secret military operation led by ex-Green Beret to ouster Venezuela's Maduro fails | Daily Mail Online

----------


## EKG

> Originally Posted by Humbert 
> The dictator Maduro has bankrupted his country. It's citizens are starving and suffering the effects of 1000% inflation. Thousands are fleeing every day. The recent election was a fraud with Maduro claiming victory. Journalists and members of the opposition have been jailed. And we have morons on this forum claiming the US is the bully.
> Whackjobs, dear boy, whackjobs. They're everywhere. Planes didn't fly into buildings on 9/11, the Moon Landings never happened, the government is run by shapeshifting lizard men, etc.
> 
> Gullible and retarded at the same time, bless them.


All it takes is high school physics, a bit of chemistry (not organic) and basic math.  being a highly experienced former cia pilot also helps



9/11 Airplane Affidavit By John Lear, Son Of Learjet Inventor
Sat Mar 24 13:01
By John Rolls (Editor)
Contributor profile(link is external) | More stories(link is external)
Story Views
Jerry V. Leaphart #jl4468


Jerry V. Leaphart & Assoc., P.C.


8 West Street, Suite 203


Danbury, CT 06810


(203) 825-6265  phone


(203) 825-6256  fax


jsleaphart@cs.com(link sends e-mail)


UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT


SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK


DR. MORGAN REYNOLDS, on behalf of :


The United States of America :





Plaintiff, : ECF CASE


vs. :


: 07 CIV 4612 (GBD)


SCIENCE APPLICATIONS :


INTERNATIONAL CORP., et al :





January 28, 2008


Defendants. :


AFFIDAVIT


STATE OF NEVADA :


COUNTY OF CLARK :


JOHN LEAR, of full age, being duly sworn, deposes and says:


I.


1. I am 65 years of age, a retired airline captain and former CIA pilot with over 19,000 hours of flight time, over 11,000 of which are in command of 3 or 4 engine jet transports, have flown over 100 different types


of aircraft in 60 different countries around the world. I retired in 2001 after 40 years of flying.


2. I am the son of Learjet inventor, Bill Lear, and hold more FAA airman certificates than any other FAA certificated airman. These include the Airline Transport Pilot certificate with 23 type ratings, Flight Instructor, Flight Engineer, Flight Navigator, Ground Instructor, Aircraft Dispatcher, Control Tower Operator and Parachute Rigger.


3. I flew secret missions for the CIA in Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa between 1967 and 1983.


4. During the last 17 years of my career I worked for several passenger and cargo airlines as Captain, Check Airman and Instructor. I was certificated by the FAA as a North Atlantic (MNPS) Check Airman. I have extensive experience as command pilot and instructor in the Boeing 707, Douglas DC-8 and Lockheed L-1011.


5. I checked out as Captain on a Boeing 707 in 1973 and Captain on the Lockheed L-1011 in 1985.


6. I hold 17 world records including Speed Around the World in a Lear Jet Model 24 set in 1966 and was presented the PATCO (Professional Air Traffic Controller's Association) award for Outstanding Airmanship in 1968. I am a Senior Vice-Commander of the China Post 1, the American


2


Legions Post for "Soldiers of Fortune", a 24 year member of the Special Operations Association and member of Pilotfor911truth.org.


7. I have 4 daughters, 3 grandchildren and live with my wife of 37 years, Las Vegas business woman Marilee Lear in Las Vegas, Nevada.


II.


8. No Boeing 767 airliners hit the Twin Towers as fraudulently alleged by the government, media, NIST and its contractors. Such crashes did not occur because they are physically impossible as depicted for the following reasons:


A. In the case of UAL 175 going into the south tower, a real Boeing 767 would have begun 'telescoping' when the nose hit the 14 inch steel columns which are 39 inches on center. The vertical and horizontal tail would have instantaneously separated from the aircraft, hit the steel box columns and fallen to the ground.


B. The engines when impacting the steel columns would have maintained their general shape and either fallen to the ground or been recovered in the debris of the collapsed building. One alleged engine part was found on Murray Street but there should be three other engine cores weighing over 9000 pounds each. Normal operating temperatures for these engines are 650°C so they could not possibly have burned up. This is a photo of a similar sized engine from a McDonnell-Douglas MD-11 which impacted the ocean at a high rate of speed. You can see that the engine remains generally intact.(photo, Page Not Found: 
404 Not Found - CBS News is external). shtml)


3


C. When and if the nose of an airplane came in contact with the buildings 14 inch by 14 inch steel box columns and then, 37 feet beyond, the steel box columns of the building core the momentum of the wings would have slowed drastically depriving them of the energy to penetrate the exterior steel box columns. The spars of the wing, which extend outward, could not possibly have penetrated the 14 inch by 14 inch steel box columns placed 39 inches on center and would have crashed to the ground.


D. The argument that the energy of the mass of the Boeing 767 at a speed of 540 mph fails because:


a. No Boeing 767 could attain that speed at 1000 feet


above sea level because of parasite drag which doubles with velocity and parasite power which cubes with velocity.


b. The fan portion of the engine is not designed to accept


the volume of dense air at that altitude and speed.


E. The piece of alleged external fuselage containing 3 or 4 window cutouts is inconsistent with an airplane that hit 14 inch steel box columns, placed 39 inches in center, at over 500 mph. This


4


fuselage section would be telescopically crumpled had it actually penetrated the building as depicted in the CNN video. It is impossible for it to have then re-emerged from the building and then fallen intact and unburned as depicted.


F. The Purdue video fails because no significant part of the Boeing 767 or engine thereon could have penetrated the 14 inch steel columns and 37 feet beyond the massive core of the tower without part of it falling to the ground. The Purdue video misrepresents the construction of the core of the building and depicts unidentified parts of the airplane snapping the core columns which were 12"x36". The Purdue video also misrepresents what would happen to the tail when the alleged fuselage contacted the core. The tail would instantaneously separate from the empennage (aft fuselage). Further, the Purdue video misrepresents, indeed it fails to show, the wing box or center section of the wing in the collision with the core. The wing box is a very strong unit designed to hold the wings together and is an integral portion of the fuselage. The wing box is designed to help distribute the loads of the wings up-and-down flexing in flight.


5


G. My analysis of the alleged cutout made by the Boeing 767 shows that many of the 14-inch exterior steel box columns which are shown as severed horizontally, do not match up with the position of the wings. Further, several of the columns through which the horizontal tail allegedly disappeared are not severed or broken. In addition, the wing tips of the Boeing 767 being of less robust construction than the inner portions of the wings could not possibly have made the cookie-cutter pattern as shown in the aftermath photos. The wing tips would have been stopped by the 14 inch steel box columns and fallen to the ground.


H. The debris of the Boeing 767, as found after the


collapse, was not consistent with actual debris had there really been a


crash. Massive forgings, spars from both the wing and horizontal and vertical stabilizers, landing gear retract cylinders, landing gear struts, hydraulic reservoirs and bogeys oxygen bottles, a massive keel beam, bulkheads and the wing box itself cold not possibly have 'evaporated' even in a high intensity fire. The debris of the collapse should have contained massive sections of the Boeing 767, including 3 engine cores weighing approximately 9000 pounds apiece which could not have been hidden. Yet there is no evidence of any of these massive structural components from either 767 at the WTC. Such complete disappearance of 767s is impossible.


III.


9. My opinion, based on extensive flight experience both as captain and instructor in large 3 and 4 engine aircraft is that it would have been impossible for an alleged hijacker with little or no time in the Boeing 767 to have taken over, then flown a Boeing 767 at high speed, descending to below 1000 feet above mean sea level and flown a course to impact the twin towers at high speed for these reasons:


6


A. As soon as the alleged hijackers sat in the pilots seat of the Boeing 767 they would be looking at an EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) display panel comprised of six large multi-mode LCDs interspersed with clusters of 'hard' instruments. These displays process the raw aircraft system and flight data into an integrated picture of the aircraft situation, position and progress, not only in the horizontal and vertical dimensions, but also with regard to time and speed as well.


Had they murdered the pilot with a box knife as alleged there would be blood all over the seat, the controls, the center pedestal, the instrument panel and floor of the cockpit. The hijacker would have had to remove the dead pilot from his seat which means he would have had electrically or manually place the seat in its rearmost position and then lifted the murdered pilot from his seat, further distributing blood, making the controls including the throttles wet, sticky and difficult to hold onto.


Even on a clear day a novice pilot would be wholly incapable of taking control and turning a Boeing 767 towards New York because of his total lack of experience and situational awareness under these conditions. The alleged hijackers were not 'instrument rated' and controlled high altitude flight requires experience in constantly referring to and cross-checking attitude, altitude and speed instruments. Using the distant horizon to fly 'visually' under controlled conditions is virtually impossible particularly at the cruising speed of the Boeing 767 of .80 Mach.


The alleged 'controlled' descent into New York on a relatively straight course by a novice pilot in unlikely in the extreme because of the difficulty of controlling heading, descent rate and descent speed within the parameters of 'controlled' flight.


Its takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret the "EFIS" (Electronic Flight Instrument Display) display, with which none of the hijacker pilots would have been familiar or received training on, and use his controls, including the ailerons, rudder, elevators, spoilers and throttles to effect, control and maintain a descent. The Boeing 767 does not fly itself nor does it automatically correct any misuse of the controls.


7


B. As soon as the speed of the aircraft went above 360 knots (=414 mph) indicated airspeed a "clacker" would have sounded in the cockpit. The 'clacker' is a loud clacking sound, designed to be irritating, to instantly get the attention of the pilot that he is exceeding the FAA-authorized speed of the aircraft. The clacker had no circuit breaker on September 11, 2001 although it does now simply because one or more accidents were caused, in part, by the inability to silence the clacker which made decision, tempered with reasoning, impossible because of the noise and distraction.


C. Assuming, however, that the alleged hijacker was able to navigate into a position to approach the WTC tower at a speed of approximately 790 feet per second the alleged hijacker would have about 67 seconds to navigate the last 10 miles. During that 67 seconds the pilot would have to line up perfectly with a 208 ft. wide target (the tower) and stay lined up with the clacker clacking plus the tremendous air noise against the windshield and the bucking bronco-like airplane, exceeding the Boeing 767 maximum stability limits and encountering early morning turbulence caused by rising irregular currents of air.


He would also have to control his altitude with a high degree of


precision and at the alleged speeds would be extremely difficult.


In addition to this the control, although hydraulically boosted, would be very stiff. Just the slightest control movements would have sent the airplane up or down at thousands of feet a minute. To propose that an alleged hijacker with limited experience could get a Boeing 767 lined up with a 208 foot wide target and keep it lined up and hold his altitude at exactly 800 feet while being aurally bombarded with the clacker is beyond the realm of possibility. [NIST claims a descent from horizontal angle of 10.6 degrees for AA11 at impact and 6 degrees for UA175; see page 276 of 462 in NCSTAR 1-2].


That an alleged hijacker could overcome all of these difficulties and hit a 208 foot wide building dead center at the north tower and 23 feet east of dead center at the south tower is simply not possible. At the peak of my proficiency as a pilot I know that I could not have done it on the first pass. And for two alleged hijackers, with limited


8


experience to have hit the twin towers dead center on September 11, 2001 is total fiction. It could not happen.


IV.


10. No Boeing 767 airliner(s) exceeded 500 mph in level flight at approximately 1000 feet on 9/11 as fraudulently alleged by the government, media, NIST and its contractors because they are incapable of such speeds at low altitude.


11. One of the critical issues of the 'impossible' speeds of the aircraft hitting the World Trade Center Towers alleged by NIST as 443 mph (385 kts. M.6, American Airlines Flight 11) and 542 mph (470 kts. M.75, United Airlines 175) is that the VD or dive velocity of the Boeing 767 as certificated by the Federal Aviation under 14 CFR Part 25 Airworthiness Standards; Transport Category Transports of 420 kts CAS (Calibrated Air Speed) makes these speeds achievable. This is unlikely.


12. The 'Dive Velocity' VD is 420 knots CAS (calibrated airspeed)(483 mph). Some allege that this speed, 420 knots (483 mph) is near enough to the NIST alleged speeds that the NIST speeds 443 (385 kts.) mph and 542 mph (471 kts.), could have been flown by the alleged hijackers and are probably correct.


9


13. In fact VD of 420 knots (483 mph) is a speed that is a maximum for certification under 14 CFR Part 25.253 High Speed Characteristics and has not only not necessarily been achieved but is far above VFC (390 kts. 450 mph) which is the maximum speed at which stability characteristics must be demonstrated.(14 CFR 25.253 (b).


14. What this means is not only was VD not necessarily achieved but even if it was, it was achieved in a DIVE demonstrating controllability considerably above VFC which is the maximum speed under which stability characteristics must be demonstrated. Further, that as the alleged speed is considerably above VFC for which stability characteristics must be met, a hijacker who is not an experienced test pilot would have considerable difficulty in controlling the airplane, similar to flying a bucking bronco, much less hitting a 208 foot target dead center, at 800 feet altitude (above mean sea level) at the alleged speed.


15. Now to determine whether or not a Boeing 757 or Boeing 767 could even attain 540 miles per hour at 800 feet we have to first consider what the drag versus the power ratio is.


Drag is the effect of the air pushing against the frontal areas of the fuselage and wing and horizontal and vertical stabilizers. Drag also includes the friction that is a result of the air flowing over these surfaces. If there was no drag you could go very fast. But we do have drag and there are 2 types: induced and parasite. Assume we are going


10


really fast as NIST and the defendants claim, then we don't have to consider induced drag because induced drag is caused by lift and varies inversely as the square of the airspeed. What this means is the faster you go the lower the induced drag.


What we do have to consider is parasite drag. Parasite drag is any drag produced that is not induced drag. Parasite drag is technically called 'form and friction' drag. It includes the air pushing against the entire airplane including the engines, as the engines try to push the entire airplane through the air.


16. We have two other things to consider: induced power and


parasite power.


Induced power varies inversely with velocity so we don't have to consider that because we are already going fast by assumption and it varies inversely.


Parasite power however varies as the cube of the velocity which


means to double the speed you have to cube or have three times the power.


17. So taking these four factors into consideration we are only concerned with two: parasite power and parasite drag, and if all other factors are constant, and you are level at 800 feet and making no turns, the parasite drag varies with the square of the velocity but parasite power varies as the cube of the velocity.


What this means is at double the speed, drag doubles and the power required to maintain such speed, triples.


The airspeed limitation for the Boeing 767 below approximately 23,000 feet is 360 kts [414 mph] or what they call VMO (velocity maximum operating).


11


That means that the maximum permissible speed of the Boeing 767 below 23,000 feet is 360 knots and it is safe to operate the airplane at that speed but not faster.


18. While the Boeing 767 can fly faster and has been flown faster during flight test it is only done so within carefully planned flight test programs. We can safely infer that most commercial 767 pilots have never exceeded 360 knots indicated air speed below 23,000 feet.


19. The alleged NIST speed of 443 mph (385 kts,) for American Airlines Flight 11 would be technically achievable. However the NIST speed of 542 mph (470 kts) for United Airlines Flight 175 which is 50 kts. above VD is not commensurate with and/or possible considering:


(1) the power available,* **


(2) parasite drag (NAVAIR 00-80T-80 Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators


(3) parasite power (NAVAIR 00-80T-80 Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators


(4) the controllability by a pilot with limited experience. 14 CFR Part 25.253 (a)(b)


* Error is external)


** Service Unavailable - Fail to connect is external)


20. Therefore the speed of the aircraft, that hit the World Trade Center, as represented by NIST, particularly that of United Airlines Flight 175 is fraudulent and could not have occurred.


12


21. One more consideration is the impossibility of the PW4062 turbofan engines to operate in dense air at sea level altitude at high speed.


The Boeing 767 was designed to fly at high altitudes at a maximum Mach of .86 or 86/100ths the speed of sound. This maximum speed is called MMO, (Maximum Mach Operating). Its normal cruise speed, however, is Mach .80 (about 530 mph) or less, for better fuel economy. (The speed of sound at 35,000 feet is 663 mph so 530 mph is Mach .7998 see 300 Multiple Choices is external)


The fan tip diameter of the PW4062 which powered UAL 175 was 94 inches, over 7 feet in diameter making it, essentially a huge propeller.


This huge fan compresses enormous amount of air during takeoff to produce the thrust necessary to get the airplane off of the ground and into the air.


At high altitudes, in cruise, where the air is much thinner and where the engines are designed to fly at most of the time, the fan and turbine sections are designed to efficiently accept enormous amounts of this thin air and produce an enormous amount of thrust.


But at low altitudes, in much denser air, such as one thousand feet, where the air is over 3x as dense as at 35,000 feet, going much faster than Vmo or 360 knots, the air is going to start jamming up in the engine simply because a turbofan engine is not designed to take the enormous quantities of dense air at high speed, low altitude flight. Because of the much denser air the fan blades will be jammed with so much air they will start cavitating or choking causing the engines to start spitting air back out the front. The turbofan tip diameter is over 7 feet; it simply cannot accept that much dense air, at that rate, because they aren't designed to.


So achieving an airspeed much over its Vmo which is 360 knots isn't going to be possible coupled with the fact that because the parasite drag increases as the square of the speed and the power


13


required increases as the cube of the speed you are not going to be able to get the speed with the thrust (power) available.


It can be argued that modern aerodynamic principles hold that if an aircraft can fly at 35,000 ft altitude at 540 mph (~Mach 0.8), and for a given speed, both engine thrust and airframe drag vary approximately in proportion to air density (altitude), that the engine can produce enough thrust to fly 540 mph at 800 ft. altitude.


That argument fails because although the engine might be theoretically capable of producing that amount of thrust, the real question is can that amount of thrust be extracted from it at 540 mph at 800 ft.


22, To propose that a Boeing 767 airliner exceeded its designed limit speed of 360 knots by 127 mph to fly through the air at 540 mph is simply not possible. It is not possible because of the thrust required and it's not possible because of the engine fan design which precludes accepting the amount of dense air being forced into it.


23. I am informed that the lawsuit for which this affidavit is intended is in its preliminary, pre-discovery phase. I am further informed that actual eyewitness statements cast considerable doubt on the jetliner crash claims, irrespective of the media-driven impression that there were lots of witnesses. In fact, the witnesses tend, on balance, to confirm there were no jetliner crashes. I am also informed that information that will enable further refinement of the issues addressed in this affidavit will be forthcoming in discovery including, without limitation, the opportunity to


14


take depositions and to request relevant documentation (additional information). When that additional information is obtained, I will then be in a position to offer such other and further opinions as, upon analysis, that additional information will mandate.


24. At this stage, it cannot properly be assumed, much less asserted


as factual, that wide-body jetliners crashed into the then Twin Towers of the WTC. Any declaration that such events occurred must be deemed false and fraudulently asserted, video images notwithstanding.


Notes:


1. On any chart plotting velocity versus either drag or thrust required or power required the parasite value rises sharply after 300 kts,


2. On any chart plotting velocity versus thrust or power required the curves rises sharply after 250 kts.


3. On any chart plotting velocity versus thrust required at sea level, the curve rises dramatically above 200 kts as does the curve for power required.


I swear the above statements to be true to the best of my knowledge.


_/s/ John Olsen Lear___________


John Olsen Lear


1414 N. Hollywood Blvd.


Las Vegas, NV 89110-2006


Subscribed and Sworn to before


me this 24 day of January 2008.


/s/ Connie Jones______________


Notary Public/Appt Exp. 11/22/09


Certificate #94-2650-1


15


This is the page for the Boeing 767-200 Type Data Certificate information from which was used in this affidavit:


<rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/15302e51a401f11a8625718b00658962/$FILE/A1NM.pdf >.


This is the page that shows how dive tests are conducted:


www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_25-335.html(link is external)


This is the page for the type data certificate for the engines used on UAL175


www.content.airbusworld.com/SITES/Certification_Register/PDF-tcds/PW/PW4000_FAA.pdf(link is external)


This is the page that shows the type of engine used on the MD-11 that crashed into the ocean. (photo attached)


www.bst.gc.ca/en/reports/air/1998/a98h0003/01report/01factual/rep1_06_01.asp(link is external)


16

----------


## harrybarracuda

Do you know there is a special thread where retards can post their dribbling nonsense on 9/11?

You might want to read it first, in case you repeat dribbling nonsense posted by other drooling whackjobs.

P.S. Please keep practising your quoting skills, who knows, one day you might actually get it.

----------


## EKG

> Do you know there is a special thread where retards can post their dribbling nonsense on 9/11?
> 
> You might want to read it first, in case you repeat dribbling nonsense posted by other drooling whackjobs.
> 
> P.S. Please keep practising your quoting skills, who knows, one day you might actually get it.



dont argue with me, direct your argument at Captain Lear and Sir Isaac Newton

as you are on this thread it is surely  the right place for retards to post.

LMAO

----------


## harrybarracuda

Little shopping tip for you. I think it will suit you.

----------


## Airportwo

^ original Harry 555

----------


## harrybarracuda

That's two muppets that don't know how to post.

Where do we find them?

 ::chitown::

----------


## EKG

> Little shopping tip for you. I think it will suit you.



thanks for the tip but shopping is not my cup of tea however STEM is.

----------


## panama hat

> thanks for the tip but shopping is not my cup of tea however STEM is.


Nah . . . Harry is right  :Smile:

----------


## EKG

> Originally Posted by EKG 
> thanks for the tip but shopping is not my cup of tea however STEM is.
> Nah . . . Harry is right



as usual same non scientific non points argued response.

aka snowflake pansy style

----------


## harrybarracuda

PH  you know they just drag you down to their level and beat you with their sheer stupidity.

It's a pointless task.

----------


## panama hat

> as usual same non scientific non points argued response.


Eh?




> PH you know they just drag you down to their level and beat you with their sheer stupidity.


You're not wrong there . . . still trying to figure out what EKG is trying to say

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You're not wrong there . . . still trying to figure out what EKG is trying to say


I don't think it's worth the bother tbh

----------


## sabang

*Venezuela says it foiled an incursion by mercenaries*


Venezuelas leftist government said Sunday it foiled an incursion from the sea, killing eight members of a group of alleged mercenaries bent on terrorist acts aimed at overthrowing President Nicolas Maduro.
Interior Minister Nestor Reverol said the group, which he said originated in Colombia, tried to land aboard fast boats before dawn in the northern coastal state of La Guaira but were intercepted by the military and special police units.


A massive air, sea and land search was underway for remnants of the attackers, he said.

Diosdado Cabello, deputy leader of the ruling Socialist Party, said later that clashes had so far resulted in eight people dead and two detained.
Cabello said the operation was orchestrated by the United States and its Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), with support from its staunch South American ally, Colombia.


He said one of those killed was Roberto Colina, a former Venezuelan army officer linked to retired general Cliver Alcala.

Alcala, a Maduro critic, hit the headlines in March when he surrendered to DEA agents in Colombia and was flown to New York after he was indicted along with a dozen others, including the president, on drug-trafficking charges.

One of the two people detained is a DEA agent, he said.  ( :yerman: )
Venezuela says it foiled an incursion by mercenaries  Raw Story


I wonder what we will get to read about this in the MSM. Let's keep watching, but it's pretty obvious that, having failed at other means, the US is trying to foment civil war & violent insurgency.

----------


## Klondyke

> I wonder what we will get to read about this in the MSM


At MSM, the news still haven't reach the newsreel. Instead, in order to serve balanced (and unbiased) news, they show hundreds links to: 

"*Third Russian doctor plunges from hospital window amid coronavirus outbreak" 

*(all the same wording...)

 BTW, anybody found: "The 2nd Russian doctor", or "The 1st...?

----------


## SKkin

All the Venezuelans have starved to death by now...right?

 :Confused:

----------


## harrybarracuda

> All the Venezuelans have starved to death by now...right?


Nah, once five million fucked off and the government bumped off a few thousand, they seem to be surviving on what they've got.

We have a few on our books. Lovely people.

----------


## OhOh

*Second Mercenary Incursion Against Venezuela in 48 Hours Fails in Chuao*

                              Posted by Internationalist 360° on May 5, 2020




_Mercenaries captured in Chuao, on the coast of Aragua state. Photo: Twitter
_
_"On the morning of May 4, in the coastal town of Chuao (Aragua state),  a group of eight mercenaries aboard a boat were captured in a joint  operation between local fishermen, the regional police and the  Bolivarian National Armed Forces (FANB).

Former Captain Antonio Sequea Torres, his brother, former Major  General Juvenal Sequea Torres, Adolfo Baduel, son of former General Raúl  Isaías Baduel, and two Americans with ties to the Silvercorp company  were arrested.
 This failed incursion was part of the so-called “Operation Gideon”,  carried out by the American military contractor Silvercorp, owned by  Jordan Goudreau, who unsuccessfully attempted an armed landing at Macuto  (La Guaira state) in the early hours of the morning the day before.

Yesterday, Antonio Sequea Torres released a video in which he was  accompanied by heavily armed mercenaries and claimed to be the commander  of this operation.

His involvement was also confirmed by his wife, Veronica Noya, in an  interview with TVV Noticias. Noya asserted that the former captain was  part of this armed movement and that he was in hiding after the failed  coup d’état of 30 April 2019, in which he also participated.



Antonio Sequea with Leopoldo López during the failed coup d’état of 30 April 2019. Photo: Archives

__For his part, former Major General Juvenal Sequea Torres stated in an  interview for VPI, broadcast shortly before the capture in Chuao, that  the operation was generally supported by Colombia and the United States,  although he avoided offering details. Antonio Sequea was part of a  first advance party of sorts and assured that more decisive action would  follow._
_
He stressed that the impetus for the actions came, in good measure,  from the false accusation of narco-terrorism made by the Justice  Department against Venezuelan leaders who hold high state  responsibilities:_
_
“It was the United States that issued that decree, for us the action  was political, but based on this that the United States did with respect  to Maduro, we are already talking about a police action. In other  words, we did take into account the guidelines of the United States and,  as a result of this, it is our action as well,” responded Juvenal to  the question from the VPI journalist as to whether they had direct  contact with US officials._
_
The vice-president of the PSUV, Diosdado Cabello, published the  videos of the capture of the mercenaries, indicating that Antonio Sequea  was the “leader of the terrorist operation. He also published  statements by Adolfo Baduel, who claimed that the two detained Americans  were working with President Trump’s security team.



Some of the weapons and equipment confiscated in Chuao. Source: Twitter
_
_As the hours pass, the traces of the United States in the making and  deployment of the mercenary operation against Venezuela become more and  more visible. This absolute protagonism that the mediocracy has wanted  to confer on Jordan Goudreau, in an attempt to disassociate Washington,  is losing effectiveness._
_
Faced with this framework of military aggression, the FANB has  activated the alert of the Territorial Defense System to neutralize new  attempts at destabilization by increasing the readiness and coordination  of military, police and civilian units._
_
This is a massive military deployment to quell mercenary movements that may be preparing on the ground._
_ “The entire Territorial Defense System, with the support of the  security agencies, is carrying out patrol and search operations,  especially in the coastal region, in order to locate other possible  participants and determine their connections, so additional arrests  cannot be ruled out,” the Venezuelan military body said in a statement  signed by General and Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino López.

__As the operation loses momentum, Guaidó has decided to rush forward  denying his ties to Jordan Goudreau, despite the fact that his signature  is on a $212.9 million contract with Silvercorp to execute an armed  intervention against the country._
_
However, he has taken a 180-degree turn. In a recent communiqué, the  fake government of Guaidó has legitimized “Operation Gideon”, admitting  that it is not a fabrication, asking for respect for the “human rights”  of the mercenaries. It is clear that it has been directly linked.
_
_The Colombian government has also tried to disassociate itself and  Washington denies any kind of connection with the events of the last few  hours. Due to the failure of the Macuto raid, the anti-Chávez media and  politicians have fabricated a control narrative spanning years to  present this as some sort of government frame-up, although Guaidó has  thrown these efforts to the wind._
_
The failed raids by Macuto (La Guaira) and Chuao (Aragua) are  evidence of the geographical focus of the operation and the distribution  of roles and capabilities._
_ 
While former Captain Robert Colina, alias “Pantera” (killed in  Macuto), would be in charge of consolidating a cell in La Guaira, with  the intention of moving on to Caracas, on the coast of Aragua state  Antonio Sequea would be shaping a kind of beachhead for the landing of  weapons, logistical resources and the mercenary squad he displayed in  his exalted video for social networks.

__Both movements failed in their original calculation: alias “Pantera”  considered that a night raid would not attract the attention of the  security forces, while Antonio Sequea bet on a silent landing in a  population of fishermen and cocoa producers that would not, in theory,  be prepared to detect their arrival._
_
After the failure of the attempt commanded by Clíver Alcalá via the  Colombian border in March (where alias “Pantera” also participated), the  U.S. planners decided to shift the focus to an invasion along the  coast._
_They bet on Macuto, taking advantage of the social withdrawal due to  the Covid-19 pandemic, to shorten distances and have a direct route to  the center of political power in Venezuela: the highly valued Caracas  and its Miraflores Palace._
_ 
Under this logic, and while the cell of alias “Pantera” was being  consolidated in La Guaira, Sequea would take advantage of Chuao: a town  connected to the mountain range of the Henri Pittier National Park,  through which it is possible to reach, on foot, the areas of Puerto Maya  and Puerto Cruz, as well as Colonia Tovar and El Junquito, it was a  virtually safe space for the transport of arms and resources without  using the traditional land routes, avoiding the presence of police and  military personnel.



Police officers from the FAES in Macuto, after neutralizing the incursion commanded by alias “Pantera”. 

__Chuao also offered a direct route to the Araucanian cities of Turmero  and Maracay, where the powerful 4th Armored Division of the Venezuelan  Army and its headquarters are located. This strategic military unit,  which covers the central region of the country and part of the plains,  is home to one of the country’s main weapons parks and the most  sensitive and strategic part of its artillery.
_
_The incursion through Chuao was probably intended to inhibit this  important axis of gravity of Venezuelan military power, since former  Captain Robert Colina would take advantage of this momentary advantage  in order to carry out the desired definitive coup in Miraflores.
_
_At this time it cannot be assumed that “Operation Gideon” has been  completely dismantled, as the FANB still maintains a state of alert  taking into account that there would be other mercenary-terrorist cells  deployed in different areas of the country._

_In the two failed raids over the last 48 hours, the crucial element  has been the organization of the people and their own intelligence  networks."

Second Mercenary Incursion Against Venezuela in 48 Hours Fails in Chuao – INTERNATIONALIST 360deg
_

----------


## harrybarracuda

If he wasn't dead, I'd say it's definitely Mad Mike Hoare running the show.

 :rofl:

----------


## panama hat

A bunch of clowns . . . probably trained by the CIA . . . thinking they'd overthrow a government with six men and a guide dog

----------


## Klondyke

Why not to try again? How many attempts were for Fidel?

----------


## Klondyke

Isn't it under control?

The Future of Venezuela: A Conversation with Special Representative Elliott Abrams

----------


## Klondyke

*Ilhan Omar says US ‘helped lead devastation in Venezuela’ through regime change sanctions
*
Ms Omar says the US 'set the stage' for what is happening in Venezuela

2 May 2020

Ilhan Omar has blamed US foreign policy for the political unrest in Venezuela, arguing that America promotes regime change that is harmful to both the United States and the people in the countries targeted.

Ms Omar said as much during an appearance on the radio programme Democracy Now!, where she discussed US interventions in Central America broadly, and the long term impacts of US sanctions.

“You know, I mean, a lot of the policies that we have put in place has kind of helped lead the devastation in Venezuela. And we’ve sort of set the stage for where we’re arriving today,” Ms Omar said.


She continued: “This particular bullying and the use of sanctions to eventually intervene and make regime change really does not help the people of countries like Venezuela, and it certainly does not help and is not in the interest of the United States.”

Sanctions have been a key US foreign policy tool for several decades now, and the Trump administration has been notable in its heavy use of the measure.

In March, Mr Trump and his team — led by national security adviser John Bolton — implemented new sanctions on Venezuela in order to force Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro to relinquish his power to White House-favoured leader Juan Gauido, who has declared himself the rightful leader of the country.

Those sanctions, and Mr Guaido’s efforts, culminated this week in mass protests in Caracas, where violence was seen as Mr Guaido and Mr Maduro jostled for power.

Ms Omar, on Democracy Now!, discussed the US approach, and noted that the Trump administration’s special envoy to Venezuela, Elliott Abrams, had a “heavy hand in some of the most devastating policies that we imposed on Central America, and that there is a direct correlation between the kind of mass migration that we’re noticing right now from Central America and South America to this country.”


Support free-thinking journalism and subscribe to Independent Minds
Mr Abrams was previously convicted on two counts of withholding information from Congress related to the Iran-Contra affair, but was pardoned by George HW Bush.

“People like Elliott Abrams, neo-cons and warmongers, you know, for so long have pushed for policies that are now—we can see, not only in Central America, but many parts of the world, the kind of devastations that they’ve had for decades,” Ms Omar said.

Ilhan Omar says US ‘helped lead devastation in Venezuela’ through regime change sanctions | The Independent

----------


## panama hat

> Ilhan Omar has blamed US foreign policy for the political unrest in Venezuela, arguing that America promotes regime change that is harmful to both the United States and the people in the countries targeted.


Just stating the obvious . . . from Chile to Iran to wherever they please.  If it is in US economic, corporate, military or any interest . . .

----------


## Klondyke

Doesn't Maduro smoke (Havana) cigars? Send him a box, the left over prepared for Fidel...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Just stating the obvious . . . from Chile to Iran to wherever they please.  If it is in US economic, corporate, military or any interest . . .


Normally I would assume a fucking clown show like this couldn't possibly be government sanctioned, but when you think of who is in charge....

----------


## HuangLao

> Just stating the obvious . . . from Chile to Iran to wherever they please.  If it is in US economic, corporate, military or any interest . . .


Yet, such is not in their interests or any of their business - if one really thinks about it.

----------


## Klondyke

How dare they?*

Exclusive: Venezuela reaches deal with U.N. to buy food, medicine with gold - central bank*

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela has reached a deal with the U.N. Development Programme (UNDP) to destine part of its gold in Bank of England accounts toward the purchase of food and medicine during the coronavirus pandemic, its central bank governor said on Wednesday.

The deal comes after Venezuela’s central bank made a legal claim earlier this month to try to force the Bank of England to hand over part of the 31 tonnes of gold in accounts belonging to the government of President Nicolas Maduro, whom Britain does not recognize as Venezuela’s legitimate leader due to allegations he rigged his 2018 re-election.

Central bank Governor Calixto Ortega told Reuters that under the arrangement, the UNDP would receive the funds directly, a move meant to assuage concerns about potential corruption.

“It’s not my word, it’s not me saying that I am going to buy food, medicine and medical equipment,” Ortega said in an interview in his downtown Caracas office. “It’s the United Nations who is saying that. They are not going to be involved in anything dark that is not neutral and independent.”

Any program would still require the Bank of England to release the gold. The Bank of England declined to comment.

In a statement, the UNDP said it was “approached recently to explore mechanisms to use existing resources held by the Central Bank of Venezuela in financial institutions outside the country to fund the ongoing efforts to address the urgent humanitarian, health, and socioeconomic needs arising from the COVID-19 pandemic.”

Ortega said he was optimistic the legal case in Britain would be resolved in the coming weeks.

A six-year economic collapse in Venezuela has resulted in hyperinflation and shortages of basic goods, including food and medicines. Maduro blames U.S. sanctions on the OPEC nation’s oil industry for its woes.

While those sanctions have slashed cash flow to the government, critics say corruption and misguided economic policies are the root causes of the collapse.

Venezuela has so far been less affected than neighbors by the coronavirus pandemic, with 1,245 cases recorded and 11 deaths. But its hospitals are in disrepair after years of underfunding, prompting concerns about preparedness for a larger outbreak.

Exclusive: Venezuela reaches deal with U.N. to buy food, medicine with gold - central bank - Reuters

----------


## OhOh

The EU recognises the Venezuel Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza.*

Attachment 53980
**Joint communiqué between the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the  Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela and the EU Foreign Action Service  

JOINT RELEASE*

BOLIVARIAN REPUBLIC OF VENEZUELA 

MINISTRY OF PEOPLE'S POWER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS

 EUROPEAN UNION FOREIGN ACTION SERVICE  

The Ministry of Popular Power for Foreign Relations of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela and the Foreign Action Service 
of the European Union inform the international community that, today,  the Minister of Popular Power for Foreign Relations of Venezuela, Jorge  Arreaza, and The high representative of the European Union for Foreign  Affairs and Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Josep Borrell, held a telephone  conversation in which they agreed on the need to maintain the framework  of diplomatic relations, especially at times when cooperation between  both parties can facilitate the paths of political dialogue.

Consequently, the Venezuelan Government decided to invalidate the  decision made on June 29, 2020, by which Ambassador Isabel Brilhante  Pedrosa, head of the European Union delegation in Caracas, was declared  persona non grata.  Both agreed to promote diplomatic contacts between the parties at the highest level,  in the framework of sincere cooperation and respect for international  law.

Consequently, the Venezuelan Government decided to invalidate the  decision made on June 29, 2020, by which Ambassador Isabel Brilhante  Pedrosa, head of the European Union delegation in Caracas, was declared  persona non grata. 

Both agreed to promote diplomatic contacts between the parties at the highest level,  in the framework of sincere cooperation and respect for international  law.

Caracas and Brussels, July 1, 2020

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Translated utilising : Mate Translate – translator, dictionary – Get this Extension for 🦊 Firefox (en-US)

In Spanish here:

Comunicado conjunto entre la Cancilleria de la Republica Bolivariana de Venezuela y el Servicio de Accion Exterior de la UE • Ministerio del Poder Popular para Relaciones Exteriores
An opinion article.

*Venezuela Is On The Path To Make Colonialism Obsolete* 


6 July 2020

Attachment 53982

_"Venezuelans should revel in the fact that President  Maduro has also scored an important victory. The EU bloc of countries  recognised self-appointed Juan Guaido as “interim president” of  Venezuela last January 2019. Nevertheless, this recent diplomatic  tête-à-tête has forced Brussels to implicitly admit who the legitimate  government of Venezuela is and to accept Caracas terms of negotiations.  It is not clear whether the EU will rescind the latest set of  “sanctions”, but that will not stop the Bolivarian process from standing  up to the bullies and continuing its path to make colonialism obsolete.

"On June 29, the European Union (EU) slapped new sanctions against 11 Venezuelan individuals. President Nicolas Maduro immediatelyresponded by ordering  the expulsion of the EU ambassador to the country. EU foreign policy  chief Josep Borrell warned that Brussels would retaliate against Caracas  over its decision and announced that it will summon Maduro's ambassador to the European institutions. That never happened. Instead, Josep Borrell called on Venezuela to reverse its decision. On July 1, the Venezuelan government decided  to rescind its decision to expel the head of the EU mission in Caracas  following a phone conversation between Venezuela's Foreign Minister  Jorge Arreaza and the High Representative of the European Union for  Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Josep Borrell, after which they  issued a joint communiqué. 

This  sequence of events gives a diplomatic victory to the Maduro government.  It may be the victory of a schoolyard bullied youth who stands up after  every blow from the bully. The strikes should never have taken place to  start with, but the cheers are for the courage and resistance shown._

_The geopolitical world is not a schoolyard and the world gang of bullies strike with much deadlier blows that fists._

_By  all accounts, Venezuela has been under overt attack since 2014 by the  U.S. hybrid war, just short of a military invasion. Other governments  have been willing participants and accomplices by imposing their own  share of threats and coercive measures (sanctions) against the Maduro  government._ 

_The  latest set of “sanctions” imposed by Brussels on 11 Venezuelans has an  additional peculiarity - some might say contradiction - of targeting  individuals that are not aligned with Maduro or his governing United  Socialist Party of Venezuela (Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela --  PSUV). For instance, Luis Parra was elected president of the National  Assembly (AN) last January after being expelled from the Justice First  party (Primero Justicia) headed by self-appointed “interim president”  Juan Guaidó. AN first vice president Franklyn Duarte was elected by the  Social Christian COPEI party. And Jose Gregorio Noriega, AN second vice  president, was also expelled from the Justice First party and is in  opposition to the ruling party._ 

_What  those individuals have in common is a willingness to be in dialogue and  engage in democratic participation in the political life of Venezuela free of foreign interference. For that they are accused of being “Maduro-aligned”  because President Nicolas Maduro has precisely the same goal. That is  the real reason why they need to be punished by the EU as they were  previously punished by Washington for their “actions undermining democracy”._

_Nonetheless, the Council of the European Union, while recognising Juan Guaidó, issued the following press release:  “The Council today [June 29] added 11 leading Venezuelan officials to  the list of those subject to restrictive measures, because of their role  in acts and decisions undermining democracy and the rule of law in  Venezuela.” It should be noted that this is the same language used by the U.S. “sanctions”._
_To  further contradict the argument of an “undemocratic” and “dictatorial”  Maduro government is the fact that it is the monolithic political group  headed by Juan Guaidó that does not seem to have a large representation  of diverse ideological positions. Those who do not subscribe to its  ruthless main goal of ousting Maduro from the presidency by any means  are summarily expelled from the party, like in the case of Luis Parra  and others._

_President Maduro’s assertive reaction to boot out the EU ambassador was fully justified for at least two reasons._ 
_Heightened awareness about independence. Most  Venezuelans have a deep-rooted sense of anti-colonialism based on their  country's 209 years of independence with long oppressive periods of  being a U.S. “backyard”. One of the legacies of Chavismo has been a  re-awakening of that sense of self-determination that is now embedded in  the cultural makeup of most Venezuelans._

_This  is in sharp contrast to the equally deep-rooted sense of colonialism  that pervades the policies of most European countries. Maduro made this  point very explicitly when he protested the EU interference in  Venezuela’s internal decision about the composition of the country’s National Electoral Council (CNE). Maduro said: “Don't mess with Venezuela anymore. [Stay] away from Venezuela, European Union, enough of your colonialist point of view!” Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza concurred in a tweet,  “[The EU] colonial heritage and reminiscence lead them through the  abyss of illegality, aggression and persecution of our people.”_

_Intolerance towards any form of interference.  The second reason related to the first one has to do with Venezuela’s  intolerance towards any form of interference in the domestic affairs of  the country. This is perhaps the biggest political gap between the  Maduro Administration that is nationalist and a defender of sovereignty,  and the Guaidó group that not only welcomes foreign intervention but  actively invites it and is supported by it._

_Venezuela  abides quite fully by international law, especially to the United  Nations Charter. No one can claim that Venezuela intervenes in the  internal affairs of other countries. However, the U.S. blatantly  circumvents international laws by issuing domestic Executive Orders or  Acts of Congress that impose its extraterritorial self-appointed “right”  on other nations. The numerous U.S. “sanctions” against Venezuela are  enforced not only on U.S. entities but extraterritorially against  non-U.S. entities often under use of threats. This is one of the most  damaging forms of interference aside from a military invasion. The EU  and Canada are not too far behind in their interference approach._

_It was equally justified that President Maduro would rescind his decision._

_It  has never been the intention of Chavismo and its Bolivarian Revolution  to confront and reject fair, meaningful, and respectful international  relations. President Maduro has shown his resolve to that goal and, to  his credit, has forced the EU to accept that resolve on this occasion.  The joint communiqué concludes, “The Ministry of Popular Power for  Foreign Relations of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela and the  Foreign Action Service of the European Union … agreed to promote  diplomatic contacts between the parties at the highest level, in the  framework of sincere cooperation and respect for international law.”_

_Perhaps  Venezuelans should revel in the fact that President Maduro has also  scored an important victory. The EU bloc of countries recognised  self-appointed Juan Guaido as “interim president” of Venezuela last  January 2019. Nevertheless, this recent diplomatic tête-à-tête has  forced Brussels to implicitly admit who the legitimate government of  Venezuela is and to accept Caracas terms of negotiations._ 

_It  is not clear whether the EU will rescind the latest set of “sanctions”,  but that will not stop the Bolivarian process from standing up to the  bullies and continuing its path to make colonialism obsolete."_


_ 
By Nino Pagliccia"

__Venezuelan-Canadian freelance writer and activist

https://oneworld.press/?module=artic...n=view&id=1561
_

----------


## harrybarracuda

> The EU recognises the Venezuel Foreign Minister Jorge Arreaza.


I don't think they ever "unrecognised" him.

It's just Chavismo  crawling back to re-recognise the EU ambassador because he wants to try and top up the family pot with some EU handouts.

I don't see them "unrecognising" Guiado.

Are you trying to paint this as some sort of win?

 :rofl:

----------


## OhOh

Where is the call from our illustrious “International Community” and “Human Rights Activists” rally to push for regime change in xxxxx.

*Is China the New Indispensable Nation?*

Tim Kirby
 
                        July 8, 2020


_"Usually when there are protests, however minor, happening  in a nation that has run afoul of the United States the “International  Community” and “Human Rights Activists” rally to push for regime change.  However, now that there are mass protests exploding over the United  States these types of voices are completely silent. American police are  free to destroy CHAZ and other camps however they see fit. This is the  power of America, however this time around there sure are a lot of red  flags and Communist sentiments in the mouths of the protestors. If we  were still in the Cold War the Soviet Union would have been instantly  blamed as spark that lit BLM. But interestingly in today’s world the  only powerful Communist nation on Earth left standing is getting 0% of  the blame. This is the power of China.
_
_If we remove relevant issues related to feelings and sexuality the  real big story over the last five to ten years has been the rise of the  Chinese economy with all sorts of “predictions” grounded in the biases  of those making them. The more Fox News/Republican you are the more  Chinese “Communism” seems gilded at best and for those on the other side  of the line they see China taking the 21st century as its own due to  the failures of “late stage Capitalism”. We’ve all lived through years  of speculation about where China is going, but finally according to Max Keiser  (who is far from perfect himself in predicting the future, but has  better results than most mainstream economists) it looks like this is  the year the Red Chinese will finally overtake the Rugged Individualists  and become the largest economy in the world. To be clear he argues that  this “achievement” will be due to weathering the global economic  downturn that is coming in the wake of the Covid-19 Pandemic. For the  tinfoil hat crowd, yes it does seem awfully convenient that the country  that started the plague may wind up benefiting the most from it. 

__

Photo: China is rising but how far can it go?_
_
So is China in the near future going to become like a post-WWII  United States – damaged from battle but in vastly better condition than  any of its competitors ready to reach out across the globe to secure its  Superpower status? Let’s take a look at some arguments for and against  this and Mr. Keiser’s prediction.
_
_Arguments Against:_

_China has nowhere to expand to. There will be no “Red Marshall Plan”  for the post Covid world and Chinese goods have already saturated  international markets. This is what gave Beijing the chance to rise but  does it really have anywhere new to go? Can China somehow explode  further and become even more pervasive than it already is? Probably not.  Perhaps this fact is why the Chinese economy (according to a variety of  sources) is starting_ _

”_ _and we see there could be some rough waters ahead for the internal side of the Chinese economy.__China generally steals ideas and makes them on the cheap, or  produces them well for foreign creators. It is hard to imagine a  dominant world power that has no ideas of its own producing plastic  widgets for its vassals as a key source of income. China’s role as the  world’s factory excludes it from becoming the global executive._ 
_Arguments For:_

_China still has the ideal conditions for a 21st century economy.  Over a billion people mostly packed together around the coast, willing  to work for cheap with the ability to export everything for pennies by  boat. (And, even if that fails or is sabotaged by America they New Silk  Road is a fantastic Plan B). China has these advantages, and although  others like India want to pretend that they do, in actually they are not  even close. In this way China is an “exceptional” nation as it has the  collective mentality and organized manpower to win.__At the very least China plays an important role in every national  economy on Earth. Even in countries a bit more trade dependent on  America, they still have the Chinese coming at #2. The USA was about 50%  of the world economy after WWII and today it has 23%. China is at 15% and rising, perhaps if it could hit 33% it would enter in to its own 1950s like utopia by 2050.__Things like a “lack of free press” or “rule of law” have been very  overblown in their importance in a powerful economy and China is proof  of this. Any of these emotional “boo-hoo they aren’t like us” arguments  are garbage that needs to be burned and should be ignored.__There is nothing besides the United States stopping China from using  mafia tactics to shut down competition. What are some manufacturing  plants in Malaysia or South Korea going to do when the PLA threatens to  break their legs? They will probably instantly back down and surrender.  If Washington wants “controlled chaos” in the Middle-East – you’re done.  If the Chinese want you to work less in a post American world then  enjoy your permanent vacation time, or else._ 
_As mentioned above people who write analysis pieces are very often  blinded by their ideology, and when one is an advocate for a Multipolar  World it is possible to see “Multipolarity” in everything, but it seems  unlikely that our era will truly become “China’s Century”. Just because  the world’s only Hyperpower is on the decline does not mean that a new  one has to take its place. When Rome fell no other Mediterranean city  automatically took its place as the lord of the West. China as nation  will remain strong, it will not collapse, but it will not become a  post-WWII United States. This simply does not seem to be in the cards"_

https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...nsable-nation/

----------


## harrybarracuda

Sorry I can't be arsed wading through reams of nonsensical chinky propaganda.

What's the point summarised in a couple of lines?

----------


## Cujo

> Sorry I can't be arsed wading through reams of nonsensical chinky propaganda.
> 
> What's the point summarised in a couple of lines?


I'm with hairy on this. For some reason those chinky propaganda pieces are difficult to read. Too many extraneous words like the author is trying to use as many as possible to sound clever.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> I'm with hairy on this. For some reason those chinky propaganda pieces are difficult to read. Too many extraneous words like the author is trying to use as many as possible to sound clever.


And it probably belongs in Hoohoo's shit Yoorasia thread rather than one about Venezuela.

They like to poke their propaganda shit everywhere, these snivelling chinky sycophants.

----------


## OhOh

> Sorry I can't be arsed wading through





> I'm with hairy on this


Complaints regarding the complete article post, complaints about high lighting the relevant sections.....




> one about Venezuela.





> our illustrious International Community and Human Rights Activists rally to push for regime change in xxxxx


and the relevance that riots are occurring worldwide.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> and the relevance that riots are occurring worldwide.


Then open a worldwide rioting thread, you fucking moron.

----------


## elche

US intervention in Venezuela today is a textbook repeat of what the the US did to Guatemala in the 1950's.  The CIA deposed the democratically elected Guatemalan President Jacobo  Árbenz and ended the Guatemalan Revolution of 19441954. It installed  the military dictatorship of Carlos Castillo Armas, the first in a  series of U.S.-backed authoritarian rulers in Guatemala.  Today, with the support of crippling US sanctions on Venezuela, Juan Guaidó has taken the reins in a second coup against the democratically elected leaders of the country.  Chavez defeated the first coup in 2002.

----------


## sabang

Well, do we really need to go in depth on this- it's pretty bleedin' obvious, isn't it? The US and it's bitches recognises guido the killer pimp as President of Venezuela?  :smiley laughing: 
I mean, why say more? ::chitown::

----------


## harrybarracuda

> US intervention in Venezuela today is a textbook repeat of what the the US did to Guatemala in the 1950's.  The CIA deposed the democratically elected Guatemalan President Jacobo  Árbenz and ended the Guatemalan Revolution of 1944–1954. It installed  the military dictatorship of Carlos Castillo Armas, the first in a  series of U.S.-backed authoritarian rulers in Guatemala.  Today, with the support of crippling US sanctions on Venezuela, Juan Guaidó has taken the reins in a second coup against the democratically elected leaders of the country.  Chavez defeated the first coup in 2002.


You were doing so well until "democratically elected".

----------


## Klondyke

But it would be "anti-american" to condemn their acts, wouldn't be?

----------


## elche

> You were doing so well until "democratically elected".


Chavez and Maduro were both elected democratically.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Chavez and Maduro were both elected democratically.


Chavez was, because he was a populist and destroyed the country in the process.

Maduro isn't. He essentially blackmailed people into voting for him by threatening to starve them.

----------


## panama hat

> Are you trying to paint this as some sort of win?


Anything to obfuscate . . . 




> As mentioned above


Again -try.  Please try.  This thread is about Venezuela.  Try.  




> What's the point summarised in a couple of lines?


There isn't one




> But it would be "anti-american" to condemn their acts, wouldn't be?


Why would it?  OhOh's not as dumb as you but you try harder

----------


## lom

> Maduro isn't. He essentially blackmailed people into voting for him by threatening to starve them.


How does that work?

----------


## sabang

Simple.

1/ America doesn't like you
2/ You call an election
3/ You win (again)
4/ The US doesn't recognise the election
5/ Americas bitches follow suit

Just ask Putin, Assad, Crimeans etc. Same old same old

----------


## lom

^ Well yes I agree but that is not what I asked about

----------


## sabang

It's TD mate.  ::chitown::

----------


## Klondyke

> Maduro isn't. He essentially blackmailed people into voting for him by threatening to starve them.


No chance that 'arry would disappoint...

----------


## harrybarracuda

> How does that work?


Quite effectively, because the thieving little shit bought his way into power again.




> On May 20, Venezuela will hold presidential elections. These elections will not be fair and do not meet basic standards of transparency, according to the vast majority of the Venezuelan opposition and members of the international community. They are poised to re-elect President Nicolas Maduro for another six-year term.
> The Maduro government is using the dire conditions of most Venezuelans to stay in power.
> Ninety per cent of Venezuelans reported not having enough money to purchase food in a nationwide survey. The vast majority of Venezuelans eat less than three times a day and more than half have lost an average of 24 pounds.
> Income-related poverty has increased to 87 per cent of households, with 60 per cent in extreme poverty. In a context of hyperinflation and scarcity, more than a third of households report not purchasing any source of protein while more than 40 per cent of households rely mostly on tubers as the basis for their dietary needs.
> 
> The government clings to a discourse that apparently favours the poor, building on the memory of the oil bonanza and the social policies erected by the Bolivarian Revolution. As the country’s economic crisis unfolded in the past five years, these policies have deteriorated or have been eliminated altogether. The few that are left are used as mechanisms of social control and political coercion.
> What happened to the social policies that the government became known for? In 2015, about 2.6 million people reported being beneficiaries of the health-care program, Mission Barrio Adentro, which gives communities access to primary care. Only 200,000 people used the program in 2017.
> All the government’s efforts have now turned to food distribution. In 2017, 12.6 million received government-subsidized boxes of food called CLAP boxes.
> The CLAP (Comites Locales de Abastecimiento y Produccion) is a network centralized by military authorities. Boxes are distributed in a discretionary manner to neighbourhood councils without formal oversight from elected officials. The network responds directly to the president.
> ...


Weaponizing hunger is a new low for Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro - The Globe and Mail

----------


## lom

> Maduro isn't. He essentially blackmailed people into voting for him by threatening to starve them.


Let's try again.
How can he starve them if they don't vote him in?

It only makes sense if he said that Guaidó would starve them.

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Let's try again.
> How can he starve them if they don't vote him in?
> 
> It only makes sense if he said that Guaidó would starve them.


Can't you fucking read or something?

----------


## Klondyke

> Ninety per cent of Venezuelans reported not having enough money to purchase food in a nationwide survey. The vast majority of Venezuelans eat less than three times a day and more than half have lost an average of 24 pounds.
> Income-related poverty has increased to 87 per cent of households, with 60 per cent in extreme poverty. In a context of hyperinflation and scarcity, more than a third of households report not purchasing any source of protein while more than 40 per cent of households rely mostly on tubers as the basis for their dietary needs.


How it is possible that the population starve when the country is under sanctions, blockades, stolen gold reserves, you name it? 

It seems, after all - and with a surprise - that the sanctions are of no help to population...

----------


## lom

> Can't you fucking read or something?


Sure I can




> Ultimately, what is at risks for common Venezuelans is their access to subsidized food.


That means that only Maduro had the subsidized food on his program and Guaidó had not.
Tough shit for Guaidó loosing by missing an election promise..

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Sure I can
> 
> 
> 
> That means that only Maduro had the subsidized food on his program and Guaidó had not.
> Tough shit for Guaidó loosing by missing an election promise..


I think you're missing the blackmail element of it because you're either being obtuse or you're a fucking moron, not that it matters which.

----------


## tomcat

> Can't you fucking read or something?





> you're either being obtuse or you're a fucking moron


...I've always admired your patience with different opinions......

----------


## harrybarracuda

> ...I've always admired your patience with different opinions......


Selective opinions.

----------


## helge

> I think you're missing the blackmail element of it because you're either being obtuse or you're a fucking moron, not that it matters which.


On the Ropes again  ::chitown::

----------


## elche

> Chavez was, because he was a populist and destroyed the country in the process.
> 
> Maduro isn't. He essentially blackmailed people into voting for him by threatening to starve them.


Completely false.  Under Chavez, Venezuela had the highest standard of living in S. America, despite all the efforts of the US to crush them.
Maduro was elected and confirmed elected by UN observers in 2013 and 2018, contrary to the fascist right wing and their running dogs trying to overthrow Maduro.  Venezuela has a long history of adhering to the principles of democracy.  In fact, Jimmy Carter has declared that Venezuelas electoral system the best in the world.

----------


## Klondyke

> Venezuela had the highest standard of living in S. America, despite all the efforts of the US to crush them.


It reminds me another "rogue" country, its name starts with "L", ending by "ibya"... (what standard of living do they have now?)

----------


## panama hat

> (what standard of living do they have now?)


Who is they?  The country was a colonial construct.  

You support colonisation and monopolkapitalistic-western-indiscriminately-designed borders?

----------


## harrybarracuda

> Completely false.  Under Chavez, Venezuela had the highest standard of living in S. America, despite all the efforts of the US to crush them.
> Maduro was elected and confirmed elected by UN observers in 2013 and 2018, contrary to the fascist right wing and their running dogs trying to overthrow Maduro.  Venezuela has a long history of adhering to the principles of democracy.  In fact, Jimmy Carter has declared that Venezuela’s electoral system the best in the world.


Under Chavez, Venezuela went from being one of the richest countries in the world to an indebted shithole. He destroyed the very industry that had them where they are. Their oil production was at its peak when he took over, and he wrecked it.

Clearly you know fuck all about Chavez or what he did, so I would suggest you go off and do some reading and then come back when you're better informed.

----------


## Klondyke

^Why? In Cuba it had worked after 60 years of isolation, hadn't it?

And they have now doctors exported to other - not so fortunate countries...

(but they still haven't been so developed to have Food Stamps...)

----------


## panama hat

> ^Why? In Cuba it had worked after 60 years of isolation, hadn't it?


Cuba has an oil industry?  Oh, Klondyke . . . you're special




> And they have now doctors exported to other - not so fortunate countries...


They've had that for decades and have been renowned for that . . . and you really thin that's a recent thing?   :rofl: 




> (but they still haven't been so developed to have Food Stamps...)


I'm glad you brought up Cuba . . . in a thread about Venezuela.  This is a country I've been to and adored . . . still do. Some of Fidel's achievements were splendid, others atrocious . . . like 'elections'.  You seem to have a thing for dictatorships . . . need a strong man or strongman to lead you?  Do you share daddy issues with chico?

----------


## Klondyke

^
It has to be a wonderful sense of life when just awaiting what others are posting, then commenting "wittily" on it.  

And when adding few more adjectives, something like "thick", "thin" (to name just the very few I can find in my dictionary) it surely feel good about himself, a really wonderful achievement for the well accomplished day...

----------


## panama hat

> It has to be a wonderful sense of life when just awaiting what others are posting, then commenting "wittily" on it.


Whereas you post in a vacuum?

----------


## bsnub

> Whereas you post in a vacuum?


No he posts from the troll farm in Saint Petersburg.

Internet Research Agency - Wikipedia

----------


## elche

> Under Chavez, Venezuela went from being one of the richest countries in the world to an indebted shithole. He destroyed the very industry that had them where they are. Their oil production was at its peak when he took over, and he wrecked it.
> 
> Clearly you know fuck all about Chavez or what he did, so I would suggest you go off and do some reading and then come back when you're better informed.


You epitomize the loud mouthed, opinionated ignoramus.  You haven't a clue about Venezuela, let alone Chavez, as demonstrated by your clumsy lies and cheap right wing US rhetoric.

----------


## harrybarracuda

It is actually shocking to realise that the oil boom put a trillion dollars into Venezuelan coffers under Chavez and paid off its debts, but thanks to him destroying PDVSA and the entire industry, and Maduro borrowing against future oil production when it was $100/bbl+ and having to pay it back at the current rate, Venezuela is $100 billion in the hole and has no real way of getting out of it with the current bunch of crooks in charge.

And apparently that is "clumsy lies and cheap US rhetoric" to the stupid.

 :rofl:

----------


## helge

> And apparently that is "clumsy lies and cheap US rhetoric" to the stupid.


You should add: "It'll all improve, if only the Miami based Elite came back".

They are known and respected philanthropists

----------


## harrybarracuda

> You should add: "It'll all improve, if only the Miami based Elite came back".
> 
> They are known and respected philanthropists


I should think so too the amount of money they've robbed off the poor fuckers.

----------


## Klondyke

*Venezuela court jails two U.S. ex-soldiers for 20 years after failed incursion*
by Reuters
Saturday, 8 August 2020

CARACAS, Aug 8 (Reuters) - A Venezuelan court sentenced two former U.S. soldiers to 20 years in prison for their role in a failed incursion aimed at ousting President Nicolas Maduro in early May, chief prosecutor Tarek Saab said late on Friday.

Former Green Berets Luke Denman, 34, and Airan Berry, 41, admitted to participating in the May 4 operation, Saab wrote on his Twitter account.

"Said gentlemen ADMITTED to having committed the crimes," he wrote, adding that the trials were ongoing for dozens of others captured.

Denman and Berry were charged with conspiracy, terrorism and illicit weapons trafficking, Saab wrote.

Alfonso Medina, a lawyer for the two, said their legal team was not allowed into the courtroom. The two men were not available for comment.

The sea incursion launched from Colombia, known as Operation Gideon, left at least eight dead.

Maduro's government said it arrested a group of conspirators that included Denman and Berry near the isolated coastal town of Chuao.

U.S. special forces veteran Jordan Goudreau, who ran Silvercorp USA, a private Florida-based security firm, has claimed responsibility for the raid.

Denman appeared in a video on Venezuelan state TV days after their capture, saying they had been contracted by Silvercorp USA to train 50 to 60 Venezuelans in Colombia, seize control of Caracas' airport and bring in a plane to fly Maduro to the United States.

Opposition leader Juan Guaido's office said Guaido had known about the operation since October, but did not finance or order it.

Maduro, who describes Guaido as a Washington puppet, has said that President Donald Trump's government backed the operation.

The Trump administration has denied any direct involvement. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said the U.S. government would use "every tool" to secure the U.S. citizens' return. (Reporting by Sarah Kinosian; Editing by Nick Macfie)

Venezuela court jails two U.S. ex-soldiers for 20 years ...

----------


## Klondyke

*Elliott Abrams Failed Trump's Mission to Overthrow Venezuela—Now He Will Take On Iran

*President Donald Trump's pick to compel Iran into changing its strategy has quit amid a failure to foster diplomacy with the longtime foe and may be replaced by the White House's point person for Venezuela, another country whose embattled government has resisted a "maximum pressure" campaign by the United States.

Elliott Abrams, a Washington veteran who rose to prominence in the 1980s with his staunch interventionist, anti-communist stances in Latin America and until now served as Trump's special representative to Venezuela will replace Brian Hook, who was appointed in the wake of the U.S. exit from the Iran nuclear deal in 2018, the State Department confirmed in a statement.


 State Department special representative for Venezuela Elliot Abrams testifies before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the Dirksen Senate Office Building on Capitol Hill August 4, in Washington. Senators questioned Abrams and Senior Deputy Assistant Administrator for Latin America and the Caribbean Joshua Hodges about the United States' continued support for Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaidó .

The selection signifies a hardline push for the administration against Iran in the final months of Trump's first term as the revolutionary Shiite Muslim power continues to defy U.S. attempts to force it to change what Washington calls Tehran's "malign behavior" across the Middle East.

Prior to the State Department statement, Hook told the New York Times on Wednesday that he was preparing to resign from his position. "There is never a good time to leave," Hook told the publication in an interview published Thursday.

Hook argued that while the Trump administration was unable to secure a new agreement to replace the 2015 pact still maintained by Iran as well as China, France, Germany, Russia and the United Kingdom, the U.S. was able to drain the Islamic Republic financially through sanctions.

"Sometimes it's the journey and sometimes it's the destination," Hook told the Times.

Abrams first served President Ronald Reagan, where as the designated diplomat for Inter-American Affairs, he played a role in the Iran-Contra Affair that saw former President Ronald Reagan administration officials sell arms to Iran in exchange for funds to be given to insurgents battling the socialist government of Nicaragua. He was pardoned by Reagan's successor President George H.W. Bush for lying to lawmakers about his knowledge of the scandal.

Abrams went on to serve Bush's son, former President George W. Bush, as deputy national security adviser. Abrams had espoused hawkish views against Iraq from the 1990s on and oversee the war until former President Barack Obama came to office in 2009.

Under Trump, Elliot was slated to return to his roots in taking on socialist leaders in Latin America. His appointment came just two days after Trump announced the U.S. would recognize opposition-controlled National Assembly leader Juan Guaidó as acting leader of Venezuela, severing ties with President Nicolás Maduro in January of last year.

Maduro replaced United Socialist Party founder Hugo Chávez after his death in 2013 and inherited a booming economy that quickly fell into decline. Like Chavez before him, Maduro accused the U.S. of trying to unseat him and, amid accusations of corruption, Trump instituted sanctions against Venezuela in August 2017, around the same time a modest economic recovery fell back into sharp decline.

Maduro's election the following year was mired with allegations of fraud, which served as Guaidó's claim to the presidency in January 2019. While the U.S. and partners, mostly across Latin America and Europe, back Guaidó, a number of other countries such as Russia, China and Iran still recognize Maduro as leader, as does the United Nations.

Having resisted heavier sanctions and an attempted coup, Maduro's resilience has frustrated officials and lawmakers in Washington alike, especially after Guaidó announced he would boycott upcoming elections in Venezuela.

"We just have to be clear that our Venezuela policy over the last year and a half has been an unmitigated disaster," Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut told Abrams at a congressional hearing on Tuesday. "If we aren't honest about that, then we can't self-correct."

While Abrams defended what he called "a positive formula" to bring democracy to Venezuela, he now had an entirely new set of issues to deal with: attempting to pressure Iran to the negotiating table just months before the U.S. national election in November and to convince countries into supporting an extension of a U.N. arms embargo on Tehran set to expire in October.

Hook had recently traveled to North Africa, the Middle East and Europe to try to influence countries in backing the U.S. initiative and finally appealed to the international community at the Aspen Security Forum on Wednesday, the same day he reportedly told the Times he was resigning.

A defining factor of the "maximum pressure" campaigns launched against both Iran and Venezuela is the term "all options are on the table," words repeated by both Hook and Abrams.

Elliott Abrams Failed Trump&#39;s Mission to Overthrow Venezuela—Now He Will Take On Iran

----------


## harrybarracuda

Another bit of distraction. What's interesting is in the last line of this story.

Venezuela doesn't have the money for major infrastructure projects, so how much more of their future oil production is going to be leveraged and who to?

I could take a wild guess.

 :Smile: 




> Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro said on Friday that a U.S. spy was captured while spying on the largest refining complex in the country, which is going through a severe fuel shortage crisis.
> 
> In a live broadcast on state television, Maduro said the man was arrested on Thursday in the northwest state of Falcon where he was spying on the Amuay and Cardon oil refineries.
> 
> They captured a marine, who was serving as a marine on CIA bases in Iraq, Maduro said. He was captured with specialized weapons, he was captured with large amounts of cash, large amounts of dollars and other items.
> 
> Maduro did not give further details, but said the detainee was giving a statement in custody.
> 
> Neither the U.S. State Department nor the White House immediately responded to requests for comment.
> ...


U.S. spy captured near Venezuelas largest oil refinery, Maduro says - National | Globalnews.ca

----------


## sabang

*U.S. media, pols rage after Venezuelans defy U.S. empire to re-elect socialists*



President Nicolas Maduro and his United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) are celebrating today, after a clear victory in yesterday’s National Assembly elections. The elections, boycotted by many major right-wing opposition groups, but still participated in by over 100 political parties, ended with the PSUV and its allies receiving an estimated 67.6% of the votes cast, *meaning they will control a two-thirds supermajority of the 277-seat National Assembly, the only major body that was controlled by anti-government forces.
*
“We have recovered the national assembly with the majority vote of the Venezuelan people,” Maduro said in his victory speech. “It’s a great victory without a doubt for democracy,” he added, also announcing that the government had delivered the 3.3 million houses for the needy that it promised when it launched the Great Venezuelan Housing Mission program in 2011.

Self-declared opposition president Juan Guaidó, a former leader of the National Assembly himself, did not see the result in the same way, seemingly calling for another coup on Saturday. “The rejection of the regime and its fraud united us, now we must respond in the street. December 12 will mobilize us like the immense majority of us who want to choose their future,” he announced on social media.

Yet even his backers in the Western press fear the result has neutralized him. _The Guardian, for example, wrote that yesterday’s events “deal a further blow to Guaidó’s flagging crusade,” quoting bitterly anti-Maduro figure Phil Gunson, who said that “the coalition around Guaidó is really crumbling.”
__Full Article__- _ MR Online | U.S. media, pols rage after Venezuelans defy U.S. empire to re-elect socialists


 ::chitown::

----------


## Hugh Cow

> Completely false.  Under Chavez, Venezuela had the highest standard of living in S. America, despite all the efforts of the US to crush them.
> Maduro was elected and confirmed elected by UN observers in 2013 and 2018, contrary to the fascist right wing and their running dogs trying to overthrow Maduro.  Venezuela has a long history of adhering to the principles of democracy.  In fact, Jimmy Carter has declared that Venezuela’s electoral system the best in the world.





> You epitomize the loud mouthed, opinionated ignoramus.  You haven't a clue about Venezuela, let alone Chavez, as demonstrated by your clumsy lies and cheap right wing US rhetoric.





> *U.S. media, pols rage after Venezuelans defy U.S. empire to re-elect socialists*
> 
> 
> 
> President Nicolas Maduro and his United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) are celebrating today, after a clear victory in yesterday’s National Assembly elections. The elections, boycotted by many major right-wing opposition groups, but still participated in by over 100 political parties, ended with the PSUV and its allies receiving an estimated 67.6% of the votes cast, *meaning they will control a two-thirds supermajority of the 277-seat National Assembly, the only major body that was controlled by anti-government forces.
> *
> “We have recovered the national assembly with the majority vote of the Venezuelan people,” Maduro said in his victory speech. “It’s a great victory without a doubt for democracy,” he added, also announcing that the government had delivered the 3.3 million houses for the needy that it promised when it launched the Great Venezuelan Housing Mission program in 2011.
> 
> Self-declared opposition president Juan Guaidó, a former leader of the National Assembly himself, did not see the result in the same way, seemingly calling for another coup on Saturday. “The rejection of the regime and its fraud united us, now we must respond in the street. December 12 will mobilize us like the immense majority of us who want to choose their future,” he announced on social media.
> ...


At the risk of repeating myself. May I refer you to post no 283. I would like to hear your explanation or maybe its just fake news for the poor maligned Maduro.

----------


## sabang

The people have spoken, and significantly. How foolish does the US look backing Guaido now?
_
Ultimately, however, while turnout was relatively low, the ruling socialist party has gained a supermajority in the one body the opposition-controlled, handing them a clear victory and the U.S. government a defeat. Added to the return of democracy to Bolivia in October and a leftist election victory in Guyana earlier this year, 2020 has not been a good year for Washington in Latin America.


_"Art of the Deal", e'hhh donald. Seriously inept at foreign policy.

----------


## Klondyke

> President Nicolas Maduro and his United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) are celebrating today,


However, after all, it's not such a landslide - and transparent - victory like in (please no names here)...

----------


## panama hat

> (please no names here)


Ok . . . but why mention it in the first place?

Oh, you mean Russia . . .

----------


## harrybarracuda

It's always the same old dumbarses that are too stupid to see how tight a grip Maduro has got on the Venezuelan political apparatus, and for sure none of them will know that he used that apparatus to take over three major opposition parties last summer while they were wittering on about something else.

There has not been a free and fair election in Venezuela since the one the swept him to power on the expected wave of support fueled by Chavez' death.

I though Chavez was bad for the country in what he did to its oil industry, but Maduro is the worst kind of parasite.

----------


## Klondyke

> There has not been a free and fair election in Venezuela since the one the swept him to power on the expected wave of support fueled by Chavez' death.
> 
> I though Chavez was bad for the country in what he did to its oil industry, but Maduro is the worst kind of parasite.


('arry surely knows that I will not disappoint him...):

The Venezuelans are not yet so developed to organize such a fair and transparent election like in (please no names here). And they count their votes just over the weekend - by hands - they do not have such sophisticated voting machines like in (please no names here) to make the election super fair...

So why not to liberate them and enable them fair election - and a happy free life either - like in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya. (not to speak about some other countries that - after all - had not agree with the liberation and go further their own way...)

(BTW, actually the Venezuelans do have their 2nd president recognized by many countries (also by Kingdom of Tonga).  Why he does not pursue his noble case in Supreme Court like in (please no names here)...

----------


## panama hat

> ('arry surely knows that I will not disappoint him...):


Everyone's expectations of you are so low that you simply can't disappoint

----------


## Hugh Cow

> ('arry surely knows that I will not disappoint him...):
> 
> The Venezuelans are not yet so developed to organize such a fair and transparent election like in (please no names here). And they count their votes just over the weekend - by hands - they do not have such sophisticated voting machines like in (please no names here) to make the election super fair...
> 
> So why not to liberate them and enable them fair election - and a happy free life either - like in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya. (not to speak about some other countries that - after all - had not agree with the liberation and go further their own way...)
> 
> (BTW, actually the Venezuelans do have their 2nd president recognized by many countries (also by Kingdom of Tonga).  Why he does not pursue his noble case in Supreme Court like in (please no names here)...


I would explain it to you but it would be easier to explain thermo dynamics or string theory to an amoeba. No offence intended, (please no names here).

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## sabang

Had to larf at this-

*U.S. Embassy caught scrubbing Tweets urging Venezuelans not to vote*MR Online | U.S. Embassy caught scrubbing Tweets urging Venezuelans not to vote


Why do Republicans hate voting so much?  ::chitown::

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## harrybarracuda

> Had to larf at this-
> 
> *U.S. Embassy caught scrubbing Tweets urging Venezuelans not to vote*
> 
> 
> MR Online | U.S. Embassy caught scrubbing Tweets urging Venezuelans not to vote
> 
> 
> Why do Republicans hate voting so much?


I don't know why they bothered, as most Venezuelans have long given up thinking their vote will actually change things.

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## sabang

Now in control of all three branches of the Legislature, the Chavista's are more in control of Venezuela than ever before under Maduro. US efforts to overthrow the people's vote by any means possible have, yet again, backfired. But you hardly read about this in MSM, so here's a nice Alt-net article to remind us.  :Smile: 


*Hush, Hush (Venezuela is Winning!)*




By now it is obvious that the mainstream media does not cover any good news whatsoever about Venezuela.  Even non-political issues are always accompanied by a poisoned cliché sentence or two about “dictator”, “authoritarian regime”, “collapsed economy” “humanitarian crisis”, etc. etc.

So, the game-changing news that there are peace talks being held in México City between the Venezuelan government and opposition parties is ignored.  México is acting as host and facilitator with the kingdoms of Norway and Netherlands, and the Russian Federation as mediators. This seminal event has been scarcely reported by the North American media or commented on by politicians. Not a peep. Perhaps it is because neither the USA nor Canada have been permitted to be part of these negotiations, although certainly the USA has tried, and failed, to worm itself in.

There are two reasons why these negotiations are a landmark for the region.

Firstly, because of the exclusion of the USA and its sidekick, Canada. Only Venezuelans are sitting around the table making decisions, trying to resolve their own political problems. A Latin American serious peace talk without the oppressive presence of the North, has rarely happened, if ever.

Secondly, it is a landmark in that it is an evident accomplishment of the Venezuelan Bolivarian government that has prevailed under the most savage USA/Canada/EU illegal economic war and has prevailed over serial attempts to violently overthrow it. President Nicolás Maduro, unfairly demonized worldwide, had called for dialogue with the opposition more than 100 times these last few years. He can certainly consider these talks a huge vindication of his strategy and search for peace and security for his nation.

The head of the government delegation is led by the president of the National Assembly, Dr. Jorge Rodríguez and the various opposition parties are being led by the lawyer Gerardo Blyde. The opposition is now calling itself _Plataforma Unitaria_(United Platform) and consists of the opposition parties: Un Nuevo Tiempo, Primero Justicia, La Causa R., AD, COPEI. These parties are constantly at each other’s throats, especially since the group includes the most extremists among them.

On 13 August 2021 the parts signed a Memorandum of Understanding setting the rules and objectives of the dialogue. This was a first huge step because they unanimously agreed to:+ Reject any act of political violence against Venezuela, its State, or institutions. This is no small achievement because sitting at the table are those who for years supported and promoted coup d’etats, and acts of terror and violence against the Venezuelan institutions and people.
+ Accept dialogue and negotiation for the peace and security of the nation.The significance of this MOU is that+ The extremist opposition parties at long last recognize the Venezuelan State, political institutions, and the legitimacy of President Nicolás Maduro. Previously, they had refused any dialogue alleging that Nicolás Maduro was not a legitimate president and demanding his resignation or new elections (which would have been against the Constitution) before they would even sit down to talk.
+ It spells the end of the US attempt to create a bogus alternative government with the fantasy that Juan Guaidó was any sort of president.
+ It indicates the end of the vicious Canadian absurdity of the Lima Group created solely to overthrow the Venezuelan government. Shockingly, at present, during an election campaign, not one Canadian media or party leader has reported the utter failure of this Liberal Party strategy of aggression towards Venezuela.
Next very day, on 14th August, the negotiation reached two concrete and vital, unanimous decisions:+ To work to have the illegal sanctions against Venezuela eliminated so that it can obtain the resources needed to serve the needs of the population especially those related to the pandemic.
+ A firm ratification and defense of the sovereignty of Venezuela over the eastern territory known as the Esequibo, bordering on Guyana. (Exxon-Mobil has their eye on this ages-old land dispute and has been fanning the flames of discord between Guyana and Venezuela).
The first decision absolutely changes the political scene in the country, considering that those signing are the parties who went cap-in-hand to the US, Canada and EU asking for the sanctions.  Now they are going to have to try their hand at eliminating them.

It will not be so easy to put the genie back in the bottle. However, there was an excellent consequence of this accord: on the 14th of September, the IMF handed over to Venezuela $5.1 billion, thus increasing by 83% its foreign reserves. These funds are for the costs related to the pandemic.  This is no loan.

On the 17th of March 2020, at the moment of world-wide anguish and uncertainty due to the start of the pandemic, Venezuela asked the IMF for $5 billion to obtain medicines and medical equipment. It was flatly, inhumanely, and unjustly denied. Venezuela has every right to these funds because the IMF has an emergency account of $650 million for regional emergencies, and these funds are provided by the member nations, of which Venezuela is part. Venezuela was not asking for a loan, but a right, particularly facing a situation that was full of risk for the health of Venezuelans.

There is always the possibility, of course, that the opposition may kick the table and walk away, which they have done twice in the past. But, there are important circumstance today that make it unlikely.+ Demented Trump is no longer in the White House, the principal backer and financial supporter of the Venezuelan extremist opposition.
+ There are now strong Democratic voices in the US Congress advocating the end of the Venezuelan sanctions and Joe Biden cannot simply ignore the more progressive wing of his own party.
+ The extremist opposition has realized that without the support of a Trump, it cannot overthrow the Venezuelan government, and the only way it could ever gain any power has to be through elections. However, more than 83% of the population approve of the negotiations and poll after poll, show that the overwhelming majority of Venezuelans are against violence and coup d’etat. Therefore, there is no hope for votes for the opposition unless they renounce violence and stop the sanctions they promoted.
+ The USA has just suffered a defeat and stunning humiliation with the war in Afghanistan. At this time, there cannot be much desire for military adventures in Washington, let alone against a Latin American country. There are sufficient voices in the political world realizing that the illegal sanctions have failed – they were geared to overthrow the Bolivarian Government and could not.
It has been astounding to witness the strength of the Bolivarian Revolution and the firm support of the people who rallied against the attacks of the foreign- led opposition and their masters.  Even the USA Chamber of Commerce now admits this failure and  bemoans that US corporations have lost billions of dollars because of the sanctions. They lament that China and Russia, who very much respect the Venezuelan government, are now benefitting from a closer relationship and trade with Venezuela.  Have they realized you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?

As for dollars, Guaidó and his gang of thieves have cheated Venezuela out of its oil company and its foreign assets. The sanctions they sought and obtained resulted in 40 banks in 17 countries looting $6 billion from Venezuela. All in all, the country has been deprived, due to the sanctions and looting, of $350 billion. This is enough funds to provide the entire population with food and medicines for 26 years. It is 25 times the amount used to rebuild Europe after WWII.

Guaidó and company have also cheated the USA. In 2017-19 alone, USAID handed over though various NGOs an amount of $472 million for “Venezuelan humanitarian crisis” and for “democracy promotion”. To date, they do not have any clear idea at all where the money is or on what it has been spent.  Also, there is no knowledge of what happened to the $2.5 million raised for the media stunt of the supposed “humanitarian invasion” of Venezuela on the Colombian frontier in February of 2020.  If the Venezuelan justice system does not nab Guaidó and his gang, surely the USA’s will since, when it comes to money, they do not forgive one cent.

There is a general malaise in the country fearing that these thieves and terrorist will go scot free and not pay for the 100,000 people who have died due to the illegal economic war and blockade that  has deprived the population of food and medicines, for the hundreds injured and killed during their street violence, for the various attempted coup d’etat, for the sabotages, attempted paramilitary invasions, for the attempted assassination of the President, for the many assassinations of Bolivarian leaders, in summary, for the treason they so surely have committed.

However, President Maduro has assured the nation that the negotiations in México have nothing to do with the independent judicial processes which continue their proper development, and that there will be no impunity, but due process. Apart from the desire for justice, the desire that these criminals pay for their crimes, the truth is that if Guaidó, Vecchio, Borges, Rondón, Guevara, López and their ilk escape from paying for their multiple crimes against the people, it would leave the Venezuelan judicial system like a tiger without any teeth. In any democracy in the world they would be in jail. Who will respect a justice system that turns a blind eye to crimes of this magnitude? I do not believe this will happen. It would be a major scandal that would leave in tatters the rule of law, the government, and Bolivarian Revolution.

So let us celebrate these negotiations. They are a triumph of México, Norway, Netherland, and Russia; a triumph of the Venezuelan government and also for the opposition that we hope are putting aside their mad violence. They are all ushering in a new political scenario in which there is real hope for peace and security for the Venezuelan people.

The media and politicians in USA and Canada can try to ignore these events, but the pace of history cannot be detained, and history is being made whether they like it or not.

_María Páez Victor, Ph.D. is a Venezuelan born sociologist living in Canada. 

Hush, Hush (Venezuela is Winning!) - CounterPunch.org


_The USA has succeeded in....  locking itself out of the process. Expect more petulance and general dummy spitting.  ::chitown::

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## harrybarracuda

> Now in control of all three branches of the Legislature, the Chavista's are more in control of Venezuela than ever before under Maduro.


And that is Venezuela in a nutshell.

Another corrupt dictatorship.

The rest of the article is thus a complete waste of time.

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## sabang

Make voting machines, not guns 'arry.  :Smile:

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## helge

> Make voting machines, not guns


Equal dangerous in wrong hands.

And both to be avoided.

Yes; I know. Both AUS and US uses voting mashines.  

Good luck

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## harrybarracuda

> Make voting machines, not guns 'arry.


And that's the sort of witless reply one expects from people who are cheerleaders for dictatorships.

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## helge

> people who are cheerleaders for dictatorships.


He doesn't take money from them, like you do

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## harrybarracuda

> He doesn't take money from them, like you do



You don't really understand commerce, do you?

 :rofl:

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## helge

Hello Harry

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## helge

> You don't really understand commerce, do you?


If it's your body you are peddling around, I'll forgive you.

Can't see the murderous regimes getting much satisfaction from that.

Mutual ?

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## harrybarracuda

Yeah, didn't think so.

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## sabang

While much is made about the alleged lack of support for President Maduro (the millions of votes his party got will never be acknowledged by the U.S.), it’s less known that the opposition is deeply unpopular.


For the first time in four years, every major opposition party in Venezuela participated in elections. For the fifth time in four years, the left won in a landslide. Voters elected 23 governors, 335 mayors, 253 state legislators, and 2,471 municipal councilors. The governing United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) won at least 19 of 23 governorships (one race remains too close to call) and the Caracas mayoralty in the November 21 “mega-elections.” Of the 335 mayoral races, the vote count has been completed in 322 of them, with PSUV and its coalition taking 205, opposition coalitions 96, and other parties 21. Over 70,000 candidates ran for these 3,082 offices, and 90% of the vote was counted and verified within hours of polls closing. Turnout was 42.2%, eleven points higher than last year’s parliamentary elections.

Here’s why _chavismo_, the movement behind Venezuela’s Bolivarian Revolution, won:

1. Good governance in health, housing and food. Venezuela’s health policies in response to Covid-19 have been exemplary. The expectation in the U.S. was that the coronavirus would overwhelm Venezuela’s healthcare system, which has been devastated by years of sanctions. And yet, per million population, Venezuela registered 15,000 cases and 180 deaths. For the sake of comparison, the figures in the U.S. are 146,000 cases/million and 2,378 deaths/million, Brazil’s are 103,000 and 2854, and Colombia’s are 98,000 and 2,481. Unlike images we saw in Ecuador or Bolivia, there were no bodies of victims left on the streets, nor were there overflowing morgues like in New York.

In terms of housing, the Venezuelan government has built 3.7 million homes for working-class families over the past ten years, the majority of which were built and delivered by the Maduro administration while under sanctions.

As deadly as the sanctions have been, things would be significantly worse were it not for Venezuela’s most important social program in the past five years: the CLAPs. These consist of boxes of food and other necessities, some of which are produced locally, which are packaged and distributed by communities themselves. Seven million Venezuelan families receive CLAP boxes every month, out of a country of 30 million people. Not only has this program been instrumental in keeping people fed, but it has also invigorated the base of _chavismo_ and reconnected the government with grassroots after the PSUV’s defeat in the 2015 legislative elections.

2. The economic situation is improving. According to an August 2021 survey by opposition pollster Datanálisis, 50% of Venezuelans consider that their lives have improved compared to the previous year or two. Despite sanctions that have caused a 99% drop in government income, the Venezuelan economy is stabilizing. Inflation is down to single digits for the first time in four years. Credit Suisse projected 5.5% growth in 2021 and 4.5% growth in 2022. Oil production hit an 18-month high in October, helped by a trade deal with Iran.


3. The left is united (mostly). The PSUV didn’t win the elections alone, they were united with 8 other left parties in a coalition known as the GPP (Great Patriotic Pole). The PSUV itself held internal primaries in August, the only party to do so. Over half the GPP candidates were women, 52%, while another 43% were youth. Overall, 90% of the candidates hadn’t held office before, suggesting a renewal of the party from the grassroots. However, this marked the second election in a row in which the left wasn’t completely united. A coalition that included Venezuela’s Communist Party ran its own ticket. These parties got less than 3% of the vote in the 2020 parliamentary elections and their decision to run separately appears to have had no impact on the gubernatorial races.

4. The opposition is divided. Never known for their unity, the Venezuelan opposition suffered a major split as a result of some parties opting for boycotting elections and attempting to overthrow the government, while others preferred a democratic path. Despite all the major parties participating in these elections, the opposition was split into two main coalitions, the MUD (Democratic Unity Roundtable) and the Democratic Alliance. The vast majority of the 70,000 candidates are in the opposition and they were running candidates against each other in almost every race. Of the 23 gubernatorial races, six were won by PSUV candidates with less than 50% of the vote and by less than six points – more unity between the MUD and Democratic Alliance could have made the difference.
A count of the votes in the gubernatorial and Caracas mayoral races shows the PSUV coalition taking 46% of the total vote, with the rest split between the various oppositions. A united opposition could win in Venezuela, but “united opposition” is an oxymoron.

5. The opposition is deeply unpopular. While much is made about the alleged lack of support for President Maduro (the millions of votes his party got will never be acknowledged by the U.S.), it’s less known that the opposition is deeply unpopular. Here are the disapproval ratings for some of the opposition’s key figures: Juan Guaidó, 83% disapproval; Julio Borges (Guaidó’s “Foreign Minister), 81%; Leopoldo López (Guaidó’s mentor and mastermind of coup attempts), 80%; Henry Ramos Allup (longtime opposition leader), 79%; Henrique Capriles (2012 & 2013 presidential election loser), 77%; and Henri Falcón (2018 presidential election loser), 66%. All of these but Falcón are part of the MUD.

The MUD coalition spent years claiming they represented a majority, a claim which couldn’t be verified by their strategy of electoral boycotts. However, their return to the electoral process only marked a ten-point increase in voter turnout compared to 2020.

 Moreover, the MUD placed below other opposition parties in 9 of 23 states and in Caracas. The MUD only won one of the three governorships taken by the opposition. This might be due in part to the widespread rejection of U.S. sanctions. The MUD has repeatedly endorsed deadly sanctions despite the fact that 76% of Venezuelans reject them.

The MUD enjoys the political, financial and logistical support of the United States and the EU, while members of other opposition parties have been denounced and sanctioned by the U.S. for negotiating with the Maduro administration. These elections should put the Biden administration on notice that continuing to support the MUD, and in particular, the fiction of Guaidó as “interim president”, is a failed policy.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/five-reasons-left-won-venezuela/279043/


Three cheers for President Guaido! All Hail the Chief!  :smiley laughing:

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## harrybarracuda

> *Five Reasons the Left Won in Venezuela*


1. They rigged the election again.
2. They rigged the election again.
3. They rigged the election again.
4. They rigged the election again.
5. They rigged the election again.





> while a government victory was widely anticipated in most states, many Venezuelans commented on a tweet by Cuban President Miguel Díaz-Canel, who congratulated his ally, Mr Maduro, on the "convincing victory" even before Venezuela's electoral authorities had announced the first results.


 :rofl:

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