#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thai Visas and Visa Runs >  >  Our US naturalization journey

## Stumpy

We have been here now starting our 6 month. All has gone very well. We decided after the first 3 months to change our plans and see about changing her tourist visa to a green card status. This has been a very interesting process.

To avoid any unknowns I first sought out an immigration attorney for a 1hr free Q&A. I went in very prepared with a bunch of questions and grilled the attorney hard. They offer this free in hopes they can baffle you with enough bullshit to scare you into using them to handle your case. Their fee is $350 an hour plus expenses.  Most say the end cost is $6 to $10K. I said F that.

So we embarked using the Ca.Gov website and low and behold all the docs are there in a nicely defined format. There are a few I am not certain we need but will wait for them to question it later. I was going to list all the forms but will hold off until I know if I submitted ones not needed or missed others.

The process is pretty straight forward and you do not need to have a law degree. You just need to do your due diligence. One of the biggest challenges in front of us on our specific case is we had no intentions of staying here. It was a 6month visit and return. However a nice job opportunity surfaced for me about a month after we landed and it just makes better sense to stay for the near term and bank reserves. Our biggest challenge is proving that she had no intentions of emigrating here using the Tourist Visa as the means. We have had to put together a timeline of us knowing each other with pictures and receipts from hotels we stayed in Thailand. I have to submit the job offer letter depicting the date offered and my first date of hire. Then we have to show what we were doing up to the time I started working while here in California. You couple all that with 12 forms, my acknowledgment that I will financially take care of her and of course the medical assessment.

Thus far the process has a cost of $1577. 75% of that has been all the medical assessments. She has been given all her immunizations, had blood drawn 2 times, a chest xray and mini physical. All checks out clear but being she could not prove she had TB immunizations and being that she did have a small reaction to the TB arm scratch test she has been informed that she is required to take 6 months of a medicine to avoid latent TB. No big deal just a pain in the ass. 

We will receive her medical clearance this Friday and we can send in the packet for her naturalization(Along with a $960 app fee). The beauty here is that once submitted the clock stops on her Visa meaning she can stay until a final determination is made based on the information supplied. If we missed info or we need to submit more the clock is still off. The process is an INS agent will review the data and then schedule a formal meeting with us to confirm all is accurate and factual. I will update this thread as we forge forward.

For now it has been very straight forward and the only real complication is just determining what forms to submit. Please be advised that during the document assessment period it is ill advised that the individual travel back to Thailand as it takes a special form with a steep fee and it raises red flags. So plan accordingly in that regard.

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## nigelandjan

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought some time ago you said you had got her some 10 year visa already ?

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## Stumpy

Nig,
Yes she has a 10 year tourist(H1/H2)Visa however that does not mean she can stay 10 years, Just means she is good to visit the US on and off without having to apply for a new one every visit. The max Tourist Visa(H1/H2) length is 6 months then she has to leave for 6 months before she can return. This is for Tourist.  Under extreme circumstances you can request an extension but I have heard that those are very seldom ever given. The other Visas have very different time frames but different constraints

They will offer them in 1 year, 3, 5 and 10 years based on the US consulates assessment of your reason for visiting. The greater the risk in their eyes of you not returning the less the Visa is for.

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## kingwilly

Sounds like everything is well within order, good luck mate.

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## Stumpy

Thanks SW,
I will update this thread as we forge along for others in hopes it may benefit them. I did not want to start the thread too soon and have inaccurate information. I will list what forms and additional info we submitted. 

Again our situation is different being we did not do a "Fiance Visa", did not rush over to have the baby here to use that as an angle, not that it is a bad way, just not the Visa we used. Our way is far more complicated as being she had to go prove to the US Consulate that she had all these reasons to return to Thailand and now those appear not so important. So we have to prove alot and how her belongings and family will be handled while she is here. 

Here is one thing very important that should be noted. If her application is denied her current Visa is revoked and must leave the country within 30 days. With that she cannot return. The reason is she has shown her intent to immigrate here and now is a risk that she might not leave and become an illegal.

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## Boon Mee

Good luck JP.  Hope your gf gets the Green Card with minimum of hassle.  When my wife applied for her GC some years back she was traveling on a Tourist Visa as well and the Immigration official told us that might constitute fraud but blew it off.  This was before 9/11 and some things have changed a bit since then.

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## OhOh

> The reason is she has shown her intent to immigrate here and now is a risk that she might not leave and become an illegal.


That seems a little harsh as she has followed the legal route so far.

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## Boon Mee

^
It's falls under the 'fraud thing'...

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## Stumpy

> That seems a little harsh as she has followed the legal route so far.





> It's falls under the 'fraud thing'...


Yes it is harsh but Boon Mee is right. There is a huge clause about fraud and intent. Up to this point I have no worries everything is on the up and up and we have a clean chronological timeline showing we had been together in TL, had traveled many places, family pictures etc. We also did not liquidate items figuring she would never be back. Honestly it is kind of a PIA in the fact her sister has all our stuff stored and maintains the car and motorcycles with her husband. But we are still paying for all the maintenance, insurance and so on. Her house is being watched by her aunt and uncle in Lampang. 

We really did not think we were going to stay. But I felt it was much better long term for her to establish herself here for a few years then we can freely travel back and forth. If approved she is given a TIN(Temporary Identification Number) as her green card is conditional. After the time frame is met they will convert all over and we are good to go. 




> Good luck JP. Hope your gf gets the Green Card with minimum of hassle.


Thanks. I look forward to coming back and relaxing....To much GD work here...... :smiley laughing:

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## thailazer

JP..  Good luck with the process, and don't forget to be patient as I have never heard of anyone flying through it.

The medical costs there sure have escalated.   I had a full physical with an x-ray and an ultrasound a while back and I thought it was expensive at almost 4000 baht.    Heck, even at Bumrungrad you can get a full day work up with several docs for 12,000 baht.    A lot cheaper than the 30,000+ figure you mention.

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## OhOh

If we believe JPR2 and his girlfriend there was no intent of fraud, when they applied for the tourist visa, to stay beyond the agreed 6 months .

Or does the US government know, for a fact, that their intent was to stay?

Peoples lives change or is that beyond the rules? Obviously not or there would not be any route to apply for the GC from within the US.

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## sabang

A Green card means that she is under the IRS tax and reporting net, for world wide income. She has to file a tax return every year- even if she hasn't been in the US- byzantine in it's complexity and reporting requirements, compared to anything she's used to. All well and good if she intends to make the US her home long term, otherwise I would suggest a can of worms.

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## ltnt

> biggest challenge is proving that she had no intentions of emigrating here using the “Tourist Visa” as the means.


I would advise that you tell the INS that "She's working here illegally!"  For sure she will be denied her visa.  Remember you posted she's taking care of your mother or grandmother for pay and a used car?

"No intentions,yea, sure.  BTW, good luck.  My brother handles these cases all the time and serves on the court as a judge in Alameda County.  According to him its not a slam dunk even with professional help.

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## Davis Knowlton

Best of luck, JP. These folks deal with a ton of scammers, and even more people whose paperwork is a huge pile of shit. If your paperwork is in good order, and you present your case as well as I'm sure you will, you should be fine. Just handing them a file that is chronological, and complete, starts the interview off on a really good note.

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## palexxxx

All the best JPPR,  hope it goes well for you.

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## Stumpy

> Remember you posted she's taking care of your mother or grandmother for pay and a used car?


Yes I do but that was only supposed to be an on and off deal during our stay for her to make a few bucks before we returned back. However that never materialized as I felt it was going to be a burden on us and her. So she is relaxing, made a few friends and just likes taking care of me and I like that.......




> My brother handles these cases all the time and serves on the court as a judge in Alameda County.


Interesting being that these do not really ever go to court. They are all handled at the INS agency being it is a naturalization function. But I guess if they are illegals the court system may be the way they are handled.




> Just handing them a file that is chronological, and complete, starts the interview off on a really good note.


Well as you know DK, the more thorough and organized you are the easier the process becomes. I am actually enjoying the process. Interesting how the system works. I think a great number fail because they cant read simple English and cannot afford an attorney. Eplains a great number of the illegals 




> The medical costs there sure have escalated.





> A lot cheaper than the 30,000+ figure you mention.


Well they have always been expensive, its why lots of folks head overseas to have things done. Actually my GF calculated the cost difference(being she was a nurse at Chaoprya Hospital). She thinks all the work done here compared to TL would have been about 8K to 10k baht cheaper. Not much in the grand scheme of things. Of course hers, if she was working there still, would have been A LOT cheaper. Again if I wanted to get married and we were doing a Fiance Visa we could have handled much of this in advance in TL however in speaking with the Dr Tam the immunizations and blood work in TL or medical examines are not usually accepted as part of the immigration process being they can be forged or made up entirely. She said this usually gets an immediate app rejection so doing it all here makes it clean. 

In the end she is actually impressed with the hospitals and doctors. Her doctor is a very nice chinese woman who has been incredibly helpful as she does a lot of immigration medical examines and made sure our paperwork is very accurate. They hit it off talking about medical practices between TL, China and here. Heck might even end up with a hook up for her to work at the medical office. She would love that i'm sure.

I have paid cash for all services and I should post how much they would have been had I used insurance. The system here is simply retarded and full of scams. Even though I have medical insurance the deductible is $3k and I have to go though the headache. I only have it for anything that might happen that is significant.

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## Stumpy

> All the best JPPR,  hope it goes well for you.


Hey buddy Thanks, 

Hit me with an email. Love to hear how you are doing.

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## Butterfly

there is no way you are going to get a green card on a tourist visa,

I got mine fairly easy but I was studying in the US, you need at least an official degree from the US and school attendance for some minimum time to be eligible

the process was very quick and fast, but for any extension, the process can be something else

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## ltnt

> Interesting being that these do not really ever go to court. They are all handled at the INS agency being it is a naturalization function. But I guess if they are illegals the court system may be the way they are handled.


As I said he is a Judge, but as is normal is a practicing attorney and handles numerous green card situations.  Mostly for Mexicans, but also numerous Asians mostly Vietnamese.

My referral to you is, "Get an experienced Attorney."

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## Stumpy

> My referral to you is, "Get an experienced Attorney."


Thanks for the input and referral recommendation However that seems to be the answer to everything these days(especially here), "Get an attorney". 

My question is why pay an attorney thousands? Do I really need to pay someone $350 an hour to fill out my forms? That I cannot put together a chronological timeline of my relationship with her? That I cannot follow basic instructions from the Ca.Gov website? What does your $8 to $10K(or more) buy you...really? Someone who will go to the INS agent and speak for me and use lawyer jargon like "Yes your honor"... "Herein", "therefore", "such as", "in lieu" of etc?  Its funny, when we decided to get my GF a Tourist Visa to come here a great number of people stated "She will never get it" That they reject most of them. We did our due diligence on the gov site, filled out everything. She went into the interview came out 10 minutes later and received a 10 year Visa. She went in very well prepared. 

In my meeting with the attorney here for the free consultation as I wanted to get a feel for what this entailed she eluded that all the information to do this yourself is out there. Just fill the forms out factually and accurately and you can do this yourself and many do. Our situation is very straight forward. I have found in life its better to learn things and do them yourself then be ignorant and let others figure it out for you. The internet is a fantastic source for information. I guess for some throwing money at an attorney is the best way to just make it happen and you sign a page or 2 and all good.

In the end the beauty here is that this is not a do or die situation for us. I do not lose my citizenship nor does she. If we can do it then great, if not she will fly back and I will follow shortly behind her.

My thread here is to help others that might venture down this trail. There are others that have done the exact same thing and we have read their passages.

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## nigelandjan

Yup good luck with it all JP ,, been down the long legal trail with my misses in the UK , I know its not an easy path .

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## OhOh

> I know its not an easy path .


What were your legal costs in the end?

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## panthira

can we discuss
jack
089 824 5798

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## ltnt

When you complete the paperwork and submit to the INS, what is the time line for response?

Since your G/F entered on a tourist visa and now wants a green card what kind of assurances does she have to post that she can be self supporting?

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## Stumpy

> When you complete the paperwork and submit to the INS, what is the time line for response?


The time for response is completely up to the INS. Most I have contacted it will take between 60 to 90 days. If (I use that term loosely) all the paperwork is in order then they will schedule an interview. Again in the OP we will send the packet certified mail. Once received her 6 month clock here stops meaning she does not have to leave as prescribed on her Visa. She can stay here until the determination is made. I suspect this process will take 4 to 6 months. There was no stated time frame and when I called it is based on load at INS. If you do happen to submit inaccurate info or a missing form they will notify you and you have to send it in but again the clock for her to depart is still off.




> Since your G/F entered on a tourist visa and now wants a green card what kind of assurances does she have to post that she can be self supporting?


In the form packet we are submitting I signed a form stating I will guarantee her financial support while here. I already added her to a bank account to show she has access to money. We have a permanent address now.  2 other forms being submitted she defines her education. The other is an application requesting a TIN to work in the US.

Thus far there are 8 forms in total. A few are single page however majority are 2 to 4. These 8 forms will be coupled with other supporting information about my employment opportunity here, a few check stubs for verification, my last 2 year income tax returns etc etc.

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## nigelandjan

> What were your legal costs in the end?


No legal costs as such mate as I done it all myself ,, if your talking about what you pay to the government via the various visa stages it would be around £4k -£5k mate plus your time off work + expenses to and fro to Croydon 3 times .

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## ltnt

> my employment opportunity here,


Is duration of employment critical?  Seems you have covered that issue with 2 previous years of IT data for the IRS check.  Must be a minimum amount held in accounts as well required?

I was considering doing something similar, but I've procrastinated due to the endless sagas reported at the embassy visa processing department.  I really don't plan on any trip back so I've pretty much stopped thought along those lines altogether now.

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## ltnt

> Originally Posted by OhOh
> 
> What were your legal costs in the end?
> 
> 
> No legal costs as such mate as I done it all myself ,, if your talking about what you pay to the government via the various visa stages it would be around £4k -£5k mate plus your time off work + expenses to and fro to Croydon 3 times .


Not exactly "chump change," Nigel.  I'm afraid to ask what it would have cost using a solicitor?

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## Stumpy

> Is duration of employment critical?


No actually duration of employment is not critical but it serves 2 purposes. 1) I need to show the reason why I am staying here and not returning to Thailand as we had planned and that I have the means to honor my guarantee that I will financially support her. 

While I have other assets to support the guarantee, having viable employment with medical benefits for which I added her shows my capability to honor it. Interestingly on many forms it has "Domestic Partner" options which is perfect being we are not married but I can support her. All of this just makes the case stronger for her to stay. One of the forms does specifically ask about my current employment.

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## ltnt

^I would think that financials would be a deal breaker if not sufficient in their eyes.
Domestic Partner of course refers to Gay and Lesbians in this case, but for sure you can feel included if that's how you look at it.  Kinda like when someone wants to state they're black or Indian these days on federal or state, business have no right to challenge the status declared by individuals in America.  What a great world we live in.  Good luck.

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## Stumpy

> I would think that financials would be a deal breaker if not sufficient in their eyes.


Actually it would be. If the individual applying had no means from either themselves or the support person then I suspect you would be denied almost instantly. You cannot come here (Legally) and be a burden to the system(we have enough of those here now illegally). Fortunately that is not the case with me guaranteeing her financial well being. 

Believe it or not "domestic partner" is no longer a category exclusively for the gay community. Kind of like Aids is not longer a gay disease. It applies for people that are not married but living together. I am glad it exists. If not, I would not have been able to add her to medical insurance benefits.

I

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## nigelandjan

> Not exactly "chump change," Nigel. I'm afraid to ask what it would have cost using a solicitor?


 One of our UK / Thai friends here has just used one of those poxy agencies just to get her next 2 year further leave to remain and its cost them over £3.5k so far and they have another 2 visas to get through before she can remain indefinitely ,, albeit he is a business man and in a better financial situation than me

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## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by ltnt
> 
> Not exactly "chump change," Nigel. I'm afraid to ask what it would have cost using a solicitor?
> 
> 
>  One of our UK / Thai friends here has just used one of those poxy agencies just to get her next 2 year further leave to remain and its cost them over £3.5k so far and they have another 2 visas to get through before she can remain indefinitely ,, albeit he is a business man and in a better financial situation than me


Nigel,
That does not sound all that bad. It is less then here for a "Good" immigration Attorney. Specialized ones want $10K or more. It appears it just depends on how easy you want it all to be. I find though in the end that they are just "Packaging agents" and i guarantee some paralegal is doing all the packaging. I mean you have to supply them all the info and they put in a nice package.

I am not sure the process in the UK but here it is really not very complicated if your situation is on the up and up. It is does take a few hours of time to get all the forms required figured out but after that it is a breeze to fill them out and print. I bet we have no more then 10 hours total wrapped in it including the medical part up to this point. It has been a fun project being we are doing it together.

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## ltnt

> Originally Posted by ltnt
> 
> Not exactly "chump change," Nigel. I'm afraid to ask what it would have cost using a solicitor?
> 
> 
>  One of our UK / Thai friends here has just used one of those poxy agencies just to get her next 2 year further leave to remain and its cost them over £3.5k so far and they have another 2 visas to get through before she can remain indefinitely ,, albeit he is a business man and in a better financial situation than me


Almost seems like, "black mail."  Pay to stay, no pay, go.  You must have had a very difficult time wading through the Immigration morass in the UK?  I can't think of any institution I'd rather not visit.  JPPPR is essentially following in your footsteps in the USA.  

Just think what it would be like for a foreigner without a Natural citizen, (US or UK) partner to assist them through all the legal bureaucratic tangles of the Immigration departments.  It has to be hell on earth.  No doubt the lawyers are swimming like sharks waiting for these people to ask for assistance.  A lot like Thailand in that respect.

I've handled all my own Immigration here in Thailand by myself, but I've known many foreigners who go to Thai lawyers to sort out all their Immigration matters.  I'm always shocked by this, but I remain closed mouthed.

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## nigelandjan

> Almost seems like, "black mail." Pay to stay, no pay, go. You must have had a very difficult time wading through the Immigration morass in the UK? I can't think of any institution I'd rather not visit. JPPPR is essentially following in your footsteps in the USA.


Your quite correct mate ,, its almost disgusting and certainly humiliating having to fill in so many poxy forms and go over and over identifying yourselves again and again,, just to keep your legally married wife to allow her to live with you,, especially in the UK where they rely so heavily on people like my wife to work 12 hours per day in care homes looking after they're own folk .

    Sorry JP I,ll get off your thread ,, rant over  :Smile:

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## astasinim

> Originally Posted by nigelandjan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by ltnt
> ...


Its really not all that difficult, if you have basic comprehension skills. I have no problems with the government asking us to provide evidence of our relationship. The problem I have, is the rip off fees to process such an application, especially when so many illegals end up getting it for free, including some poor bugger doing their forms for them too. Fortunately we didnt end up having to pay as much as Nigel, which was nice.  :bananaman:

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## nigelandjan

You will also find these days Asta its a lot more involved mate

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## astasinim

I didnt think it had changed all that much Nige. So long as one keeps all relevant evidence from day 1, and presents it properly, nobody should have any real issues. From what I understand, all that has changed, is the price (which really is a complete rip off), and the introduction of a minimum income for the sponsor. We got caught out with the life in the UK test that good old Tony brought in, without telling anyone else.

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## Stumpy

> I've handled all my own Immigration here in Thailand by myself, but I've known many foreigners who go to Thai lawyers to sort out all their Immigration matters. I'm always shocked by this, but I remain closed mouthed.


I did all my own retirement Thailand immigration as well. Was about the same as it has been for my GF. A few less forms but same hoops. It really just takes patience and a reasonable level of common sense. Of course not being a douchebag and carrying a ton of legal baggage with you makes it that much easier. I know a few that used Siam lawyers. Paid $1300 for what took about a week to do. Like you, I just kept my mouth shut.

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## Stumpy

> Sorry JP I,ll get off your thread ,, rant over


Noo Problem Nigel, its all good info for everybody. Rants are good. :Smile:

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## Stumpy

Today went well. Met with Doctor and she signed and released the medical acceptance forms to us. Now we can package up all the forms and send off. I will try and take a pictures of the packet we are sending in and post it.

While it is an odd feeling having to justify yourself in all this I am glad we are doing it the legal way. This will avoid us ever having to look over our shoulders. One paramount thing is to be truthful and factual. The truth stands alone. If you get caught with mixed info this will most definitely end up being delayed or even denied.

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## nigelandjan

The one good thing is JP you seem to be allowed to convert what was originally I believe a visitor visa , whereas in the UK you cannot convert a visitor visa , the only conversion is from a fiancee visa to married the further leave to remain followed by indefinite leave to remain , the first 6 months on a fiancee visa can be boring for them as they are not allowed to work on that one  :Smile:

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## Stumpy

Nigel,
Being able to convert is nice but you know it all boils down to intent. So we have a huge burden to prove this is not why we came here nor was this a back door attempt. As you know there is a huge number of scams where people are paid $$$ to lie and  bring someone over here falsifying everything. So we will be scrutinized carefully. But with her being almost 40 and her parents having passed away who is paying me to bring her here..... :smiley laughing:

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## Stumpy

Wanted to update the thread

Here are the forms and various information we are submitting

*Forms*

G-325A Biographic information (Both of us)
I-130 Petition for Alien Relative (Her only)
I-485 Application to register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status (Her only)
I-693 Medical acceptance form(Her only and includes all immunizations and was sealed by the doctor and cannot be opened)
I-854 Contract between sponsor or household member(Me only)
I-94 copy
US Tax returns for previous 2 years(Me only)
2 months of current pay stubs to verify employment (Me only)
Birth certificates (Both of us)
Copy of Drivers licenses( Both of us)
Copy of passports (Both of us)
2 passport size pictures (Both of us)

*Various information*

Bank statement showing her name active on the acct
Receipts of our stays and travels around SE Asia
3 compressed pages of various pictures of us on travel, with family and friends
Copy of auto insurance showing she is insured to drive
Copy of medical insurance showing she is medically insured

Make absolutely sure you mail in Certified or Registered mail so you have a confirmation of receipt

On the various information supplied above, Based on input from passages I read and input from the 1 hr free consultation with an immigration attorney it is in your best interest to supply anything supporting your relationship and your ability to support her. Sadly you need to prove this is not a paid or arranged relationship to make her a citizen. If you do not supply the information it may not get denied, however they will most likely send you a letter requiring more information which only delays the process.

*Next step*

They will review the data and then schedule an interview. This will basically confirme and validate the information we supplied and that there was no intent to fraud getting here using a Tourist Visa. Of course I am certain in the interview the questions will arise about what she will do with all the items she noted on her original visa to come here that would guarantee her return in the specified time. She has all of that covered as well being she has it all at her home and her house is being watched by her Aunt and Uncle and they have graciously offered to watch it until we return being they own a home of their own very close to hers. 

As I stated in my OP, please keep in mind that once approved she cannot leave the US to return home for at least 2 years( i am working to confirm the time frame). The only way she can leave is a death in the family or an emergency and this has to be proved with a lot of data. coupled with this you have to fill out yet another form and have it approved before departure. If she leaves without approval she forfeits her application and all is lost.

More to come

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## bobo746

I married a filipia in the 80's did all the paperwork myself the oz immigration had me jumping through hoops looks like nothing has changed.
You are right about making sure it's all above board any bullshit and they can stuff you around for ever.
Good luck mate.

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## ltnt

So if you get married in the USA after and if you get the new visa does the 2 year stay in the USA still apply?  Just asking like....

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## Stumpy

> So if you get married in the USA after and if you get the new visa does the 2 year stay in the USA still apply?  Just asking like....


Let me correct my information as I dug a bit deeper for clarification. She cannot, shall I say should not unless an absolute emergency, leave the US *during* the application approval process. From what I have gathered the app process can take anywhere from a few months to a few years depending on how well you package your app, if it is a complicated mess, you submitted incomplete or inaccurate information or it includes many family members. Once the application is approved she can then freely travel back and forth. However the traveling party still must submit a form stating the purpose of the travel and pay ~$350. Once her greencard status is changed from "conditional" to "completed" then she can travel anywhere anytime with no notification.

If you are to marry in the US after your application is submitted and the conditional greencard has been issued it will change very little other then you are married. You would update your status, as any one would, as a recently married couple. 

If you were to marry during your visit here then apply for greencard the process remains the same. You do not need to change your status to a K1 Fiance Visa, marry, then apply for a greencard. You submit the I-485 "Change Status" form depicting married and check the appropriate boxes on the I-130 to spouse rather then sponsor. All other info I listed above (plus your legal marriage certificate) will need to be submitted regardless if sponsoring or married.

The applications fees are;

I-485 $1080 
I-130 $420

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## ltnt

Not bad.  Seems pretty straight forward.  All fee charges are really quite reasonable when looking at what fee's are in the UK or especially here in Thailand for citizenship/permanent resident.

So in 6 months to a couple years we can find a conclusion to this thread?  Good Luck.

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## Stumpy

> So in 6 months to a couple years we can find a conclusion to this thread? Good Luck.


Well I hope not that long. The timing I have read is all over the place. I suspect that is based on each applicants situation and a host of other variables.

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## Stumpy

An additional note to the above form update

It is best you submit form I-785 "Application to seek employment" with the packet. They wave the fees($420) if you do. If you apply afterwards the fee is applied. Additionally if for some reason you believe there is an eminent reason to travel while the app is in process I suggest you also apply for 1-131 Travel form. There does not appear to be a fee for it. From the US Gov website it is not advisable to travel during the app review process but if you must then you will need this form.

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## ltnt

1-131 Travel Form applies for Domestic travel only?

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## rickschoppers

JP, just ran across this thread and glad to see all is well over in the US. I have to give you a lot of credit for going through this process with so much paperwork. Personally, I hate the BS that one has to go through to get anything done in the States, but understand some, but not all, of the reasoning.

The best of luck to you buddy and stay in touch.

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## Stumpy

> JP, just ran across this thread and glad to see all is well over in the US. I have to give you a lot of credit for going through this process with so much paperwork. Personally, I hate the BS that one has to go through to get anything done in the States, but understand some, but not all, of the reasoning.
> 
> The best of luck to you buddy and stay in touch.


Hey RC,
Good to hear from you. Yeah you know the deal here. Lots of hoops to jump through. In an odd way I am enjoying learning the process. Its really not to difficult at all but time consuming. The internet makes the world a much smaller place and information more readily available. The best advice I can offer anyone is stay away from attorney's. Man do they like to get you wound up and afraid of it. This is how they survive. FEAR.

We mail her app packet Saturday. More to come...........

----------


## Seekingasylum

The crucial issue to be considered by the INS is whether or not fraud was perpetrated in obtaining the visit visa facilitating her entry into the US which now transpires to be for settlement.

I do recall you saying your partner brought her original educational certificates with her when you both travelled. Have you adduced these in support of the appplication? If so, I'm afraid you may have shot yourselves in the foot. From the INS perspective, no genuine visitor to the US arriving on a visit visa after claiming earlier to the Consulate that only a short trip was intended would carry educational certificates which de facto signal quite a different intention entirely.

Frankly, the mere fact that you have submitted a settlement application is by itself a clear indication to the INS that a visit was not the true intention when the visa application was submitted. Settlement in their view is regarded as a serious issue and not one, on the balance of probability, embarked upon lightly and requires much forethought and planning. The visa officer in Bangkok will be kicking himself that he was hoodwinked so easily and doubtless will actively seek to impede the GC application. 

Whether you like it or not, you are the sort of folk who make it so difficult for the rest of the bona fide visitors anxious to obtain their visas.

Nevetheless, chok di kap.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^Totally disagree. The Vice-Consul who granted the visa processes hundreds of applications a week. He will have never given them another thought once they walked away from his window. He must also have been quite impressed by them, as he granted a ten-year visa - these are not issued often. Also, once the visa is issued, it's out of the hands of the Embassy, and in the hands of INS; the consular officer couldn't track it from the Embassy if he wanted to.

As far as having a negative impact on future applicants - rubbish. She applied for a visa, it was granted. Next case.

As far as the legality of her subsequent actions, everything she is doing is in accordance with US immigration law. Thousands of people apply annually for changes in their visa status - that's why the system JP is currently working is in place.

As for intent: Her application will either be approved or denied - based on the paperwork submitted and personal interviews. If denied, she goes home; if approved, she stays. All legal and above board. I will be very, very surprised if she is not approved.

----------


## ltnt

> He must also have been quite impressed by them, as he granted a ten-year visa -


Actually Davis, the ten year visa is almost "automatic," here at the US Embassy.  Normal or SOP as they say.  

I have to admit that The Gents got a point or two.  Worth thinking about, Na?

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^It appears you are correct, and times have changed since I last dealt with visas to the US. Now, if an applicant successfully completes the process, it does appear that they are granted ten-year visas. However, first time visitors may not qualify, and will only be granted a ten-year visa after applying a second time after completing their first trip without incident.

----------


## ltnt

> However, first time visitors may not qualify


To my knowledge this was his G/F's "first time to visit the USA."  I have friends who have gone through the same visa process at the Embassy in Bangkok and its standard operating procedure.  One was having some difficulty, but he knew one of the Embassy staff and arranged an interview with him not one of the locals.  30 minutes later a ten year visa and off to Navarna.  They stayed 6 months and returned to Bangkok.  Now they're back in the USA on a permanent basis.  Lost touch so don't know if she applied for resident status.

I recall JP's earlier post regarding his G/F's status and what his and her expectations were.  Discussions were as the Gent portrayed in his post as I recall.  I don't think JP will encounter any difficulty at INS as its my belief that we give them far more credit for intelligence than is due.  Most government pogues are simply looking to see if all the paperwork is there, all the necessary boxes are checked, and is there substantial monetary support for the applicant.

That said, "Shit Happens."

Stay dry Davis.

----------


## Stumpy

I think in the end the thread I started here is not really to debate the system. It is to assist others that might go down this path. Every case is extremely different as I am finding and mine is no different. Some people (suprisingly) even scanned their forms after being filled out to assist others and left a lot of personal info in them. They were helpful but something I would never do.

We are following all the stated requirements to acquire a greencard. We did our due diligence in Thailand and she received her 10 year Visa. This is her first visit. Prior to her submitting her app for the US Visa I read hundreds of threads where well over 80% were denied. In fact some were denied and it was their wife whom they had married in Thailand. One thing to keep in mind is I have no idea how those individuals prepared their documents, did she interview poorly, did they lie, did their information contradict what they said? Who knows. I have witnessed at least half a dozen get booted while I was acquiring documents for myself over the years. I personally feel a lot of them are subjective and the interviewer saw something questionable and that was that. 

As for here, she applied for a B1/B2 Visa in Thailand. she was given one. We came here and she likes it and wants to stay with me. Nothing wrong with a person changing their minds. We are taking the legitimate USCIS path to get her legally here. Not an under the table, pay no taxes, drain on the system. I guess I could do like the hundred of thousands do annually here and just let her be an illegal and wait for amnesty. As DK stated hundreds of people everyday probably apply for status change for various reasons. The fact that theGent makes a crack that I make other "Bona Fide" Visa applicants anxious is utter nonsense. What is a "Bona Fide" Visa applicant doing that I am not? I cant tell you how many are here under false pretenses of marriage. They enter under K1, lie, then marry here. Wait 3 years then divorce. The guy got paid and he is on his way. I read up on those.

----------


## Stumpy

> 1-131 Travel Form applies for Domestic travel only?


Sorry I missed this, No it is for anywhere outside the US. We submitted this form with an expected travel date back to TL around April 2013. It does not mean it will be accepted, that individual request could be denied. It is best to file this form and I-765 at the same time you file the I-485 as they are all reviewed. If you submit all at once the fees for the 131 and 765 are not applied.

----------


## ltnt

^O.K.  I got it. So one can file a form to receive an "exception," to the rule about the mandatory 2 year stay before being allowed out of the country?  I wonder why the 2 year regulation in the first place?  I suppose a faker would file, receive their green card status and then F.O. back to where ever with his new status.  So what?  He can come and go as he wishes after the green card issue, right?  Its like a catch 22.  Makes no sense at all.

----------


## Stumpy

^ I know, I laughed about it too. She only asked for one exception for her to visit family early next year being she will have been here for 1 year. Doubt I will go. 

But I think you are right. They want to stop the scam that people attempt by applying then bail back home and wait for approval. Then get set up and apply to bring their entire family over. But reading many comments very few get the I-131 form approved. It is really designed for emergency purposes.

----------


## Dillinger

Great thread JPPR, great of you to share this info to any other Americans who want to follow suit. You are right though, with everyone is different and no doubt these cases are dealt with by civil servants who have deadlines and also can decide the fate of a couple dependant on their mood or if they got the legover the previous night

I have a few questions for ya, tell me to fuck off if you like. I know youre an honest and decent guy, but you dont show all your cards with this girl.

Do you love her ?

Would it make your application easier if you were wed in Thailand already and had it registered with the uS Embassy ??

Are you thinking of marriage ?

----------


## Stumpy

Update,



Her application packet has been mailed 9/20/2012. Feels good to have it all done(whether it is accurate or not is yet to be determined). I sent it certified registered mail. I also paid by check which they will turn into an EFT draft which I will have record of in my acct. I felt it better by personal check. As best as I can understand once I have confirmation of receipt by the USCIS that her Visitor Visa return  clock stops until a determination is made. Based on the process, the next step the INS will schedule a biometric appointment to take hand and fingerprints to enter her into the system. Its interesting being she had this done at the US consulate in Thailand to acquire her Visitor Visa

More to come. Let's see how long this takes......

----------


## Stumpy

> Great thread JPPR, great of you to share this info to any other Americans who want to follow suit. You are right though, with everyone is different and no doubt these cases are dealt with by civil servants who have deadlines and also can decide the fate of a couple dependant on their mood or if they got the legover the previous night


^ Firstly it is my pleasure to help others. I agree that this will be handled by a civil servant that could be having a bad day or a good day. That list of variables is a huge unknown. And just because you get past that one who knows what the next might be like. 




> I have a few questions for ya, tell me to fuck off if you like. I know youre an honest and decent guy, but you dont show all your cards with this girl.


^ I would never tell someone to FO because they asked me a question like that. I have had others ask me here. My Mom(76) has asked me frequently being my GF and her get along incredibly well and do lots of things together. She says she is such a wonderful person.  




> Do you love her ?


^  I am not really sure what the definition of love is. I think the more realistic question is "Do I care for her?". The answer in that case is "Yes". She is a cool gal with absolutely zero baggage or drama. No games, no kids from other marriages, educated, never married, I have never had to give money to any of her family members and she has said that her house in Lampang is my house. I was not expecting to meet a gal nor was I looking when I moved to TL. Maybe that's why it happened, who knows.




> Would it make your application easier if you were wed in Thailand already and had it registered with the uS Embassy ??


That's an interesting question. I will answer with, I am not sure. From my understanding if you married in TL and then move back to the US the process is the same. You are applying for a Greencard as I did with the additional cert that you were married in TL. On the otherside you could apply to marry here with a K1 however many K1 Visa's are rejected and they cannot marry in the US as they had hoped. Again at the US Consulate you are at the mercy of the interviewers perception of the intent. I read of many that it did not fly. I have my personal opinions on that but will leave them out for sake of discussion. Others have tried the "Baby" angle and that has been rejected a lot to.




> Are you thinking of marriage ?


Hmmmmm I do not know. I have said I did not want to marry again. Been there and done that. However it is not out of the realm of possibility. I need to start thinking a bit more long term and realize, that while dating women has moments of fun, it does have diminishing returns. When you find a nice gal who is mature, is looking to share a life with someone, is self sufficient, why continue to look? She is not pressuring me and I am not in a hurry.

----------


## rickschoppers

^
JP, if you do go down that road to marriage and then try to obtain a visa for your wife's stay, let me know. It would be a great thread for others, including myself, to hear the step by step process from someone who does not use an attorney and has above average writing skills.

P.S. I am not trying to push you into anything you are not ready for. :Smile:

----------


## Stumpy

^
Will do RC. For now I am in a holding pattern while we wait for the application package to arrive in Chicago. Was not quite sure why it had to go to Chicago but they have very specific locations for the forms you are filling out to be sent to.

And you are not "pushing" me into anything. The marriage chat has happened but only as others brought it up. But I guarantee that if we change and head that way that I will post it on here and have to take back every post where I stated "I will never marry again" and there were quite a few of them...... :smiley laughing:

----------


## Davis Knowlton

You never know, bro. I was married at 32; lasted nine years - couldn't have been much worse. I said "Never again". Got married again at 50; couldn't be much better. You just never know. I suspect you, like me, just kind of go with the flow.

----------


## Stumpy

> I suspect you, like me, just kind of go with the flow.


Indeed......

----------


## Seekingasylum

But aren't you concerned about the consequences of her application being refused? It may lead to the cancellation of her current visa and the prospect following her return to Thailand that she will not qualify for another?

----------


## Stumpy

> But aren't you concerned about the consequences of her application being refused? It may lead to the cancellation of her current visa and the prospect following her return to Thailand that she will not qualify for another?


We are not overly concerned but it is on our minds. But as I said it is not the end of the earth. Of course we have an option to appeal the decisions made as well.

----------


## Stumpy

Update. 

Her I-485 Status change to Green card application package was received today(Wed) in Chicago at 1:42pm.

~ 3 days from California to Chicago.

----------


## Stumpy

USCIS has cashed the checks for the 2 forms submitted, 1-485 and I-765. 

So officially her Visa clock has stopped until their determination has concluded.

More as it becomes available

----------


## ltnt

So, JP what was the reason she wants to become a US Naturalized Citizen?  Of course we know that she will now carry two passports and two citizenship's?  I am envious of those who have that option.  I know some people who actually have three passports from different nations including the USA.

Pointing this out as the USA does not really do a effective background check on its own citizens let aloe on those seeking citizenship.  I don't think you're going to have any problems whatsoever unless in the interview process you take a "Stupid Pill."

----------


## Stumpy

> So, JP what was the reason she wants to become a US Naturalized Citizen?


That's a good question. I think there are quite a few reasons. 1) We want to stay together and with me landing the job after our arrival, it makes better sense to live and stay here for the near term. 2) Its a great opportunity for her to advance herself. 3) Having a US Passport will make our lives WAY easier to travel which is what we want to do. 4) If she chooses to seek employment here she can become gainfully employed where as in TL this is a daunting challenge unless she wants to be self employed and work 12hrs a day 7 days a week with no benefits. Its an odd situation, after 30ish in TL you are not a desirable employee. I read so many hiring websites and they discriminate openly. Here you can land employment at any age and oddly enough 30 to 50 is peak hiring age. Here she just has better opportunities. 

Another benefit in having a US Passport we can bounce back and forth making that a simple open process. We only need a home base in TL which she owns. I am not going to get wrapped up in Thai home ownership BS nor do I care if I have anything with my name on it there. I also made it very clear that I do not want to own a property here in the US due to the long term liabilities; mortgage, property taxes, home owners insurance and property maintenance. It is far better to rent here when we visit or stay.

I, like you, wish we could do that in TL. I would like to have a Thai Passport and stop this nonsense BS check in. If they had a process to do it I would embark upon it as she has done here but it simply does not exist. So staying here is also easier.

----------


## Stumpy

Today I received 4 letters from the USCIS(I-797C, Notice of Action).  Across the top they clearly state in big bold letters *"This notice does not grant any immigration status or benefit"*

They are all receipts for the following applications.

I-485 Status Change (her)
I-765 Application to seek employment (her)
I-131 Travel Approval (her)
I-130 Petition for alien Relative (me). This form is a bit odd being she is not a relative but there are boxes on the form and you do need to submit.

So next up should be a biometrics appt where they will do a bunch of finger printing and so on. 

This is a good sign up to this point. All our documents must have been in order or they would have kicked them back according to info I read.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^Well done. Pretty fast too. I'm now starting with the forms again here. Having gotten my probationary permanent residence almost a year ago, it's time to submit the papers for the final, permanent, permanent resident status. Here's hoping it shoots through......

----------


## Stumpy

^Thanks DK. Best of luck on your mission as well.

----------


## nigelandjan

Sounds good so far JP  ,, when my mrs did the biometric thing poor little bugger was so nervous her hands were dripping with cold sweat so the poxy reader thing couldn't read them ,, it went on for an age in that cubicle  :Smile:

----------


## Stumpy

^ Nig that's pretty funny. I can only imagine. Up to this point she has been a very cool customer given the circumstances. I have to give her cudo's for that. She has never lost her patience even when trying to translate and understand the process here. She did however produce a big smile, a huge "sigh" of relief and then whipped us up a few margaritas to toast the letters.

----------


## Stumpy

Today we received her "ASC Appointment Notice". 

This is the biometrics appointment. This is scheduled to take place in a few weeks. 

I will post what takes place and any other info.

----------


## Stumpy

Today we went to the INS for the Biometrics appointment. It was very straight forward and took about 30 minutes. They finger/hand print both hands and did both old style ink and by digital image and took her picture. She is officially in the system now. 

There was not a lot of information to be gathered about the next step from the staff there. I suspect she will be receiving a TIN card in the near future but will wait and see.

I will update more info as it becomes available.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> Today we went to the INS for the Biometrics appointment. It was very straight forward and took about 30 minutes. They finger/hand print both hands and did both old style ink and by digital image and took her picture. She is officially in the system now. 
> 
> There was not a lot of information to be gathered about the next step from the staff there. I suspect she will be receiving a TIN card in the near future but will wait and see.
> 
> I will update more info as it becomes available.


This is just banging along - quite impressive and efficient thus far.

----------


## Stumpy

As an FYI for those following this thread;

The next step for us is a date for an interview. I am posting this as there seems to be a huge unknown when this may happen. My research has shown it can be anywhere from 1 week to 1 year or anywhere inbetween. The various delay lengths appear to be the area you live, INS backlog and other processing protocols so be patient. While in this wait mode, your Spouse/GF etc is safe to stay without penalty until a determination has been made.

I will post back when the info has been sent

----------


## Stumpy

Today we received the interview appt for the first week of Dec. 

Things are moving along extremely fast from what I have read of others who have gone through this process. 

This step will be the most critical I suspect as all of the intentions, why she wants to stay, my support and sponsorship, showing this is not a prearrange deal to get her citizenship so she can bring an entire village over here etc will all come under scrutiny 

I will post the process and what happened during the interview.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^Good luck! It's probably moving more quickly than most because your paperwork was more organized than most.

----------


## Stumpy

Had our INS interview today at 1:30pm. Was in and out in all of 14 minutes with her Greencard appvl. 

He had our entire application present and commented on how thorough it was. He thumbed through it and asked some random questions. I showed him supporting documents showing our Cell phone bill, a bank acct with her name on it. He asked how we met, We gave him the readers digest version of it. He asked her if she had ever been arrested, was involved in radical political parties and was here on her own free will. 

She left relieved and its all done.

We will receive the official greencard with picture in 2 weeks. Next up her Social Security card and California drivers license. With the greencard we can travel back and forth now without any issues.

FWIIW in the waiting area there were 9 other groups of people waiting with us. 3 or 4 couples , few families and one gal . 7 of them had attorney's as they had stuff spread out everywhere and lots of coaching going on. We got called first. I suspect having an attorney actually makes it complicated and they do not want to deal with them. Keep that in mind

----------


## OhOh

Congratulations to you both, as you imply, it's all in the preparation/homework. The system works.

----------


## Stumpy

> Congratulations to you both, as you imply, it's all in the preparation/homework. The system works.


Thanks. All in all it was not difficult and an excellent learning process.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Well done, JP. I never had any doubts!

----------


## Stumpy

> Well done, JP. I never had any doubts!


Thanks DK, Now maybe I will marry her........ :rofl:

----------


## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by OhOh
> 
> 
> Congratulations to you both, as you imply, it's all in the preparation/homework. The system works.
> 
> 
> Thanks. All in all it was not difficult and an excellent learning process.



and you learnt how to do it next time?

good luck and happy days

----------


## Stumpy

> and you learnt how to do it next time?


Next time?  

Learning is about knowledge. Knowledge is shared. Amazing how that works huh? Funny seeing a crack like this from a guy who has a multi page house building thread where you "Learned" some tricks which you "Shared" with others... Sometimes DrAndy you open your mouth and remove just about all doubt...  :Wink:  

Maybe I can assist others if they should want to go this route. I have already received a few PM's asking information which I am glad to share. Hope it works for them as it did her.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> 
> Well done, JP. I never had any doubts!
> 
> 
> Thanks DK, Now maybe I will marry her........


Now let's not go crazy here........................

----------


## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> ...


^Good Point....Thanks for the swift kick in the nuts buddy...Whewwwwwwww!!! :smiley laughing:

----------


## OhOh

> Maybe I can assist others if they should want to go this route. I have already received a few PM's asking information which I am glad to share. Hope it works for them as it did her.


I nearly added a similar thought to my congratulations but deleted it.

You have the template, you have satisfied customers and I am sure you can beat the "professionals".

----------


## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> Maybe I can assist others if they should want to go this route. I have already received a few PM's asking information which I am glad to share. Hope it works for them as it did her.
> 
> 
> I nearly added a similar thought to my congratulations but deleted it.
> 
> You have the template, you have satisfied customers and I am sure you can beat the "professionals".


Here is what is interesting. In talking with the INS rep, he called us first because we did not have an attorney and we filled out our own paperwork. All the Gov forms have that section on the bottom where you sign that you filled them out on your own or  the legal rep that did them for you. I suspect you raise big questions if you have an attorney. To the rep you are adding a huge element of suspicion that you are hiding something being most attorneys are coaching you what to say and how to say it. 

I told him that the Gov site is quite easy to use. The forms are all PDF and you can save them. He smirked and just commented "Its why we closely scrutinize the people that cannot do them on their own"

Again just glad I can help and hope this thread has or will help others.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> California drivers license


A fascinating thread and well done the both of you.

I presume she will have to take a proper test to get a driving license?

----------


## Stumpy

> I presume she will have to take a proper test to get a driving license?


First up is a Social Security card as she has expressed interest in working as a nurse or in the health care sector. Then comes her California Drivers license.  She wants one but her Thai Drivers license is 100% accepted here with no constraints. So I told her to pursue it as time permits. I am not sure what it entails to acquire one. Whether she has to do student driver cert then behind the wheel test at Dept of Motors Vehicle or take just the written. I will post back on this when she embarks on that. On a side note some businesses require you have a CDL (Cal Drivers License) as part of employment. The reason being is they can do a background check where as they have no means if she has a Thai DL.




> A fascinating thread and well done the both of you.


Thanks. Again I started and posted the timeline as I figured it would be interesting with an uncertain outcome.

----------


## Boon Mee

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> and you learnt how to do it next time?
> 
> 
> Next time?  
> 
> Learning is about knowledge. Knowledge is shared. Amazing how that works huh? Funny seeing a crack like this from a guy who has a multi page house building thread where you "Learned" some tricks which you "Shared" with others... Sometimes DrAndy you open your mouth and remove just about all doubt...  
> 
> Maybe I can assist others if they should want to go this route. I have already received a few PM's asking information which I am glad to share. Hope it works for them as it did her.


Good on ya JP with this thread.  When my wife obtained her Green Card back in the day - like before 9/11, the process was a little easier.  Good luck with the INS.  :Smile:

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> She wants one but her Thai Drivers license is 100% accepted here with no constraints.


Always worrying.

Same in the UK. They'll accept a Thai one despite overwhelming proof they can't drive for shit, yet they're not supposed to accept a UK one which is stupid seeing as the UK has one of the highest standards of driving.

----------


## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> She wants one but her Thai Drivers license is 100% accepted here with no constraints.
> 
> 
> Always worrying.
> 
> Same in the UK. They'll accept a Thai one despite overwhelming proof they can't drive for shit, yet they're not supposed to accept a UK one which is stupid seeing as the UK has one of the highest standards of driving.



 :rofl:   True in most cases. My GF drives exceptionally well but she has been driving for 12 years.  Here in California the Vietnamese are downright scary and how they acquire a CDL is beyond me. My gripe is they have the behind the wheel test with a vietnamese instructor and written test in Vietnamese. How exactly does that work? FFS it should all be in English or you fail... :ourrules:

----------


## OhOh

> How exactly does that work? FFS it should all be in English or you fail...


Spanish?

----------


## Imminent

Good for you JPPR. This is useful info and encouraging.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> My gripe is they have the behind the wheel test with a vietnamese instructor and written test in Vietnamese. How exactly does that work? FFS it should all be in English or you fail...


I could imagine the uproar if the Thai driving test was only done in Thai...

----------


## rickschoppers

So that means we can use a Thai driver's license in the US or UK instead of a national one if you living in Thailand, correct?

----------


## Dillinger

Nice one JP.

Good of you to take the time to show others how its done and without the lawyers fees too.

Green coming when it lets me

----------


## Stumpy

> So that means we can use a Thai driver's license in the US or UK instead of a national one if you living in Thailand, correct?


I would say Yes. If you do not have a valid US DL but a current Thai DL then you should be legal. The only grey area is auto ins being it is mandatory under the SR22 mandate. However if you are borrowing a car from a person who has insurance covering all motorists then you are fine.

My GF drives either of my cars as I have them insured as such that anybody driving them with a valid license is covered

----------


## Stumpy

> Nice one JP.
> 
> Good of you to take the time to show others how its done and without the lawyers fees too.
> 
> Green coming when it lets me


Thanks. The green thought is all that counts... :Smile:

----------


## Stumpy

For anyone interested

The total cost of the process was $3654 from what I can tell. This includes all app fees (about half the costs), certified mail, medical certifications and required vaccinations.

Total appx time to complete all of this with forms, mailings, doctor visits, bio appt, INS interview was ~40 to 45 hrs. Of course this is spread out over 2.5 months. So a little under an hour a day. The biggest chunk was up front filling out forms and triple checking them for accuracy. The rest was waiting for the next step in the process.

Yesterday she got her work approval card in the mail. Should get greencard next week. Then off to get a social security card.  After that she can do whatever she wants. Of course the mission is not yet complete. Now we have to wait 5 years for her to apply for US Citizenship and then acquire her US Passport which is what we really want.

----------


## toddaniels

Very informative and interesting thread about the trials and tribulations of the naturalization process.

Good on you for sticking to it and seeing it through! I imagine most people would have thrown in the towel and/or hired a professional to walk them through the process. For some reason forms and paperwork seem to give people fits or makes them think the process is actually harder than it is.

Again congrats,

----------


## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> So that means we can use a Thai driver's license in the US or UK instead of a national one if you living in Thailand, correct?
> 
> 
> I would say Yes. If you do not have a valid US DL but a current Thai DL then you should be legal. The only grey area is auto ins being it is mandatory under the SR22 mandate. However if you are borrowing a car from a person who has insurance covering all motorists then you are fine.
> 
> My GF drives either of my cars as I have them insured as such that anybody driving them with a valid license is covered


I am planning to come back next May to do a 3 month contract and bolster my bank account. They supply a rental car and a place to live plus my regular salary on top of that which would work for me.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^When I go on one of my very occasional trips to the US, I drive on my Filipino license - no problem. I haven't had a US license in decades.

----------


## rickschoppers

^
Good to know Davis, Thanks.

----------


## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> ...


RC,
If this helps, when we would have Thai staff come to the US to train on 3 month intervals I would get them set up in rental cars. At vehicle pick up you pay the supplemental insurance which would cover you no problem.

Sounds like a good plan. Nice break, reserves replenishment and then back.  :Smile:

----------


## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by JPPR2
> ...


Thanks JP. My CA license is still valid, but just thinking about the future. Not really sure how long I will be able or willing to come back for the short contracts, but it does definately help on the financial side of things. I also still have some personal property in the US that I will need to either liquidate or make sure is taken care of. I've really enjoyed being retired for the past 14 months, but it will be time to go back for a short visit by next May.

Like others on this thread I give you a lot of credit for working thru the lengthy process and it shows it can be done with a lot of patience. A green also coming from me for all your efforts.

Oopps, I was told I need to spread the greens more before giving you another, but you do have my utmost respect.

----------


## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> ...


RC,
You know looking back on it all it was not difficult at all and quite honestly I thought it went very fast. As I said the biggest effort was the upfront forms and the medical certification. Then it was just the process which went along at a nice pace. The internet makes this process easy as there are links to everything including doctors approved by the US Govt and they were very affordable. I think the only duress incurred was from my GF because frankly the risk was all hers. It is not like I was going to lose my citizenship, they take my passport and deport me. She, on the other hand, would have had her Visa revoked, told to leave the US in 30 days and not been able to return to the US as she has shown that she wants to live here.

IMHO, as you know RC, here the Attorney's want you to be afraid of it. If you are, they can sell you the security and charge you a fortune to do it. I guarantee you they have no interest in it working the first few go arounds. Being they charge you $250 to $400 a hour its in their best interest to have it drag on and on. I read many people that had a nightmare of a time getting approval. Some were outright denied. Its hard to understand how unless they met up with a INS rep who was hell bent against immigrants or they simply had a shady deal going on. An example of this; in the waiting room at Homeland Security there was a Caucasian guy and his Japanese wife. They sat behind us. It was those 2, her mother and an attorney/translator. This guy and his wife could not really even talk to each other. They required the translator on almost all discussions. I would suspect this came under tons of scrutiny. I do not know the outcome but do know after talking to the guy for a few moments before we went in that this was their 3rd visit and the Attorney had a folder 4" thick of stuff. I read many threads where they interview you. The INS Rep thinks something is not right and make you leave and reschedule a new appt requesting an additional form or doc or that something is missing etc. However I suspect the real intent was to see if their stories changed. 

Anyway I hope this thread helps others and shows it can be done with a bit of effort. Just her having a Greencard makes our traveling easier. No more approval to leave Thailand for her. She can come and go like we are able to as US citizens. Later her having a US Passport will make our lives even less complicated when it comes to travel here and abroad. In fact as much as I hate to say it, she will be way better off then any of us. We have to play that TL 90 day check in nonsense and then pay to leave the place where she will have dual citizenship and have more overall general freedom. Odd in many ways.. :Smile:

----------


## Stumpy

*Social Security*;

Did some research over this past weekend and found that once you have a "Green Card" and the "Authorization to Work" card you do not need to update your status at the Social Security office. Once approved you are in the system ready to legally work. However when you become a citizen(if you go that far) you must update your status and apply for a SSN.

*California Drivers license*; 

The process is very straight forward.

-Read the drivers handbook
-When you are ready schedule a drivers test appt at any local DMV.
-You will take the written test, if you pass then they will take you thumb print and a picture
-You will also have to pass a vision test.
-Pay applicable fees

They will mail you the license in the mail.

You can take this test up to 3 times. As far as I can tell they do not have a written test in Thai. They have them in Vietnamese and all variants of Chinese and Japanese.

----------


## rickschoppers

^^
How true about having attorneys dragging out any process that will allow them to charge more. That would be another thread and I could contribute much to this topic since I had a divorce that was drug out for over two years at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars. I personally rate all attorneys once step above the BIB here.

----------


## Stumpy

Since last update she has got a Social Security card and California Drivers license. Both of these were easy and not to much effort. 

On the SS card. A couple of things to think about. Really give a lot of thought about how long you plan on staying in the states in regards to her working and SS card. If the goal is short term then avoid it and seek a cash type job or contract. If you join a company and pay into SS, leave and not return you basically gain nothing but contribute to the US Social Security system. You need to contribute to SS for quite a few years before any benefits can be recognized and then it is only a % of what you contribute and is based on your last 3 months of earnings. 

Here is the downside of not acquiring a SSN. If you do not have one applying online for a majority of employment opportunities is simply impossible. You need as a required field. By not having it you do limit your avenues. However if you have a greencard and the Authorization to work card you can acquire gainful employment anywhere. I highly recommend contract employment if you are planning short term 

As for the California Drivers license, interestingly having a California Drivers license for employment is far more important. They use this number to check on your record(Drunk driving, Felony records etc). Without, a lot of companies will not hire you. Acquiring one is very straight forward. 2 conditions exist. 1 ) if you have a Thai drivers license and it has no expiration the US govt accepts as valid and all you have to do is take the written test. 2) If the license has an expiration date then you will be required to take a behind the wheel test and written. In California they do not have the written test in Thai so if your wife/GF does not have a solid command of the English language she may struggle.

Landing her first job: So tomorrow she has an interview for a job. A Thai restaurant is looking for a manager/chef. The owner is from North Thailand and has been here for 9 years. When she spoke with them it was like a reunion of sorts being she grew up North Thailand. Chemistry seemed very good. More to come on that.

----------


## rickschoppers

I would think most Thais that venture over to the US would have a pretty difficult time of it. It sounds like if you are well educated and speak/understand the English language, then there are some opportunities for employment.

Right now I am struggling with the thought of my son staying in Thailand and whether he should go thru the Thai education system and have a good command on the English language, or just bring him over here to be educated. He is only 2.5 years old, so there is time since he would not start school in the States until he is 5. There are pluses and minuses for staying in Thailand or coming to the US. I will be working on getting him a US passport and SS card when I return after working a couple of 3 month contracts. He will have until the age of 18 before he has to declare a home country.

JP, if your girlfriend ever does become a US citizen, is she still able to own property in Thailand?

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> I would think most Thais that venture over to the US would have a pretty difficult time of it. It sounds like if you are well educated and speak/understand the English language, then there are some opportunities for employment.
> 
> Right now I am struggling with the thought of my son staying in Thailand and whether he should go thru the Thai education system and have a good command on the English language, or just bring him over here to be educated. He is only 2.5 years old, so there is time since he would not start school in the States until he is 5. There are pluses and minuses for staying in Thailand or coming to the US. I will be working on getting him a US passport and SS card when I return after working a couple of 3 month contracts. He will have until the age of 18 before he has to declare a home country.
> 
> JP, if your girlfriend ever does become a US citizen, is she still able to own property in Thailand?


Luckily there are 2 or 3 really good primary schools in Udon which teach in both Thai and English (and Chinese if you feel inclined). I would worry more when your lad starts getting to double digits as the schools tend to be pretty poor then.

----------


## Stumpy

> I would think most Thais that venture over to the US would have a pretty difficult time of it. It sounds like if you are well educated and speak/understand the English language, then there are some opportunities for employment.


I agree. There is not a lot of infrastructure supporting Thais. Clearly if you are Vietnamese, Chinese, Mexican its a cake walk. In fact almost everything you buy here now has all the instructions in those languages. Its very rare to see a Thai here. We have met 3 or so since we arrived. We did find a temple not to far away that she visits. The Monk is from Isaan. I would say having great command of the English language is imperative as a Thai moving here.




> JP, if your girlfriend ever does become a US citizen, is she still able to own property in Thailand?


RC,
We have done some research on this. It is becoming a sticky situation especially with all the heightened visibility of foreigners dumping loads of money into starting businesses using their Thai wives as the owner. I would suspect more laws will come into play over the coming years in Thailand. As it stands now the best avenue is to retain dual citizenship and always travel back to Thailand using her Thai passport. If she arrives under the US Passport she is defined as a foreigner and believe it or not can create problems because she is now "Visiting". We have a lot more research to dig into. Years ago it was easy but the systems for tracking are getting better.  I would suggest anyone who marries to have her retain her maiden name. If she adds your surname on a new passport it will raise a red flag. No law says you have to change names. 

Answering your question specifically, my Gf has been reading that it is becoming an issue to buy land if you have become a US citizen and are married to a foreigner. Others may be able to speak with real world experience, I am only going off what we have read and she has heard when doing inquiries.

In my GF's case, while having a US passport makes traveling around to other countries significantly easier, quite honestly having a green card is almost as easy. I doubt we will pursue a US Passport for her. I most certainly do not want to complicate her life. Her green card is good for 10 years and you just renew it. You do not have to seek US citizenship to live here. Plus I seriously doubt we will live here long enough for it to really matter.

----------


## Storekeeper

> Right now I am struggling with the thought of my son staying in Thailand and whether he should go thru the Thai education system and have a good command on the English language, or just bring him over here to be educated. He is only 2.5 years old, so there is time since he would not start school in the States until he is 5. There are pluses and minuses for staying in Thailand or coming to the US. I will be working on getting him a US passport and SS card when I return after working a couple of 3 month contracts. He will have until the age of 18 before he has to declare a home country.


My soon to be 15 year old step-daughter went to school in Thailand for K-1; 2-3 at an American school in Japan; 4-6 in Thailand; 7-8 back at an American middle school in Japan and is now a 9th grader in the USA. She's probably the only Thai step kid I've met living in the states who can read and write Thai; and pull down roughly a 3.5 GPA at an American school. I'm pretty sure she already desires to get the US citizenship after 5 years even if it means giving up Thai citizenship. We've been in the USA about 7 months now.

There are several Thai spouses in the area we live and most of them seem to be doing pretty well. Kitchen help at a casino seems to be a popular job with them.

----------


## Storekeeper

> my Gf has been reading that it is becoming an issue to buy land if you have become a US citizen and are married to a foreigner. Others may be able to speak with real world experience, I am only going off what we have read and she has heard when doing inquiries.


I don't see my wife getting US citizenship either. But sometimes the wheels start turning in her head pondering it. But if she did then I guess she would have to worry about the three chanootes she already has in her name.

My vote is she just follow the green card rules and not worry about the US citizenship.

----------


## RamboII

She would need to pay in to social security for 40 quarters (of a year; the equivalent of working 10 years) to collect at some future date.   At that point, she would be entitled to collect your SS monthly payment, if you should die.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> my Gf has been reading that it is becoming an issue to buy land if you have become a US citizen and are married to a foreigner. Others may be able to speak with real world experience, I am only going off what we have read and she has heard when doing inquiries.


Previously, maybe, but not now.

----------


## toddaniels

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> my Gf has been reading that it is becoming an issue to buy land if you have become a US citizen and are married to a foreigner. Others may be able to speak with real world experience, I am only going off what we have read and she has heard when doing inquiries.
> 
> 
> Previously, maybe, but not now.


 The law which was on the books regarding Thai women who had foreign husbands, take their foreign husbands surname or hold another passport couldn't register land in their name was amended by the Ministry of Interior back in 1999 (I think). 

  If there is a foreigner in the mix (married to a Thai woman) I think they do have to sign that "form letter" and go with their Thai wife to the Land Department. That letter states the foreigner knows they can't hold the chanote, they have no legal claim on the land under Thai family law and all the money used to purchase the land is coming from their Thai wife not them.

  I know quite a few Thai women married to foreigners who have both their husbands surname and hold a passport for another country too, yet hold a fist full of chanotes in their now foreign sounding surname.

  Conversely a foreigner CAN own the house and lease the right to have it sit on land in their wife's name without a lot of fanfare. The maximum term of a lease can be 30 years, and usually there are 2 extensions each for an additional 30 years written into it. This does have to be registered at the Land Department, but its pretty straight forward. I know a couple of foreign men married to Thais who "own" their homes this way...

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## Stumpy

> She would need to pay in to social security for 40 quarters (of a year; the equivalent of working 10 years) to collect at some future date. At that point, she would be entitled to collect your SS monthly payment, if you should die.


Those numbers are correct. We will stick with the green card status and keep it simple.




> I know quite a few Thai women married to foreigners who have both their husbands surname and hold a passport for another country too, yet hold a fist full of chanotes in their now foreign sounding surname.


Good information above ^^^. We have been reading info that nowadays it is now becoming more complicated and can create issues in buying land. While I am not married to her, I said if it ever happens for her to keep her Thai Passport and maiden name as you do not need a US Passport. Originally I wanted her to have it to travel back and forth but now have found the green card works as the same. She can travel back and forth with no issues, stay as long as she likes, work where she wants so there is no big benefit becoming a US citizen.  Now if you plan on working here for years and want to be part of the system them it might be a good thing. 

Be very nice if they had something like this to stay in TL instead of that idiotic 90 day check in.

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## Storekeeper

> stay as long as she likes.


Not exactly true. If a green card holder stays outside the USA too long they could end up having it revoked and denied re-entry to the USA.

I don't remember the specifics so you'll have to google it.

----------


## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> Right now I am struggling with the thought of my son staying in Thailand and whether he should go thru the Thai education system and have a good command on the English language, or just bring him over here to be educated. He is only 2.5 years old, so there is time since he would not start school in the States until he is 5. There are pluses and minuses for staying in Thailand or coming to the US. I will be working on getting him a US passport and SS card when I return after working a couple of 3 month contracts. He will have until the age of 18 before he has to declare a home country.
> 
> 
> My soon to be 15 year old step-daughter went to school in Thailand for K-1; 2-3 at an American school in Japan; 4-6 in Thailand; 7-8 back at an American middle school in Japan and is now a 9th grader in the USA. She's probably the only Thai step kid I've met living in the states who can read and write Thai; and pull down roughly a 3.5 GPA at an American school. I'm pretty sure she already desires to get the US citizenship after 5 years even if it means giving up Thai citizenship. We've been in the USA about 7 months now.
> 
> There are several Thai spouses in the area we live and most of them seem to be doing pretty well. Kitchen help at a casino seems to be a popular job with them.



Interesting that your step-daughter was able to adapt to changing back and forth between the Thai and American education system and maintain a good GPA. It is encouraging to hear since I am still not sure about how to educate my son. Given the choice between living in Thailand or the US is not an easy one to make and one that I do not want to impose on my son.

By the way, where are you located to be so close to casinos. Nevada, or just an area that has American Indian casinos?

----------


## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> 
> stay as long as she likes.
> 
> 
> Not exactly true. If a green card holder stays outside the USA too long they could end up having it revoked and denied re-entry to the USA.
> 
> I don't remember the specifics so you'll have to google it.


Storekeeper,
I apologize, let me clarify my statement. She can stay here in the US as long as she likes now versus having to leave in 3 months and stay there for 6 months return back etc, etc

If she stayed in TL to long they could revoke her Green card. I am not sure the exact duration she would have to be away to have that happen.

----------


## Storekeeper

> By the way, where are you located to be so close to casinos. Nevada, or just an area that has American Indian casinos?


Washington State

----------


## Stumpy

I wanted to drop some updated info into the thread to bring it current. All is progressing quite well. She landed a job quite easily and is making descent money and has been gainfully employed now for nearly 3+ months. She is saving virtually every penny. She has a sweet deal in many regards as she negotiated a cash/salary wage where she banks some cash on the side and keeps her taxable income low(basically minimum wage  :Smile:  as they will see it). The big plus is she did not have to work so she was able to command her hours the way she wanted them so she has weekends off with me.

We are almost at the 6 month mark into the 2 year conditional Greencard. We can apply for the 10 year Greencard around October 2014 which makes it a permanent type status rather then conditional and coming and going is not scrutinized. I will definitely update the thread on that final process.

We are at a cross road on whether it is worth applying for US citizenship. We have discussed this numerous times and have not determined which path we will go. There are some pro's to having a US passport and some negatives. We are still weighing them out.

For now its just living a life. She likes that she is saving money very fast. Being we will renovate her Teak home starting early 2015 she has a list of things she wants to purchase for it. Of course I will be adding my few western creature comforts.

----------


## Courtesy Flush

How did you get her a tourist visa the first time? I am about to go thru this and was wondering what answers she gave during the interview process. If she says she is coming to USA to stay with her boy friend, they always get rejected?

----------


## Goodwill

I think she is a nurse so that would make it easier.

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## Stumpy

> How did you get her a tourist visa the first time? I am about to go thru this and was wondering what answers she gave during the interview process. If she says she is coming to USA to stay with her boy friend, they always get rejected?


Firstly...Excellent Nic for a name. 

Answering your question, If you have time I would recommend going through this post from my original OP. A quick recap; Do it all online. Whatever she submits on the form should/must align with what she says in the interview. 

There are many variables but the key things they look for is that she has assets and family to return to. If she is single, no assets, no job, no education then this will be a hard sell and the interviewer will see right through it. She should go prepared with any documents etc. You cannot go with her on the interview so she will have to answer this alone.

Good luck

----------


## Stumpy

> I think she is a nurse so that would make it easier.


I am not sure how much that had a lot to do with it quite honestly, but clearly having a degree from college, owning her own home, having a job to return to at the hospital she was leaving, a car, money in the bank made it clear she had intentions of returning.

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## mudcat

Obtaining U.S. citizenship enables a surviving spouse the right to collect SS survivor benefits at 60-years old in a foreign country based upon their spouse's earnings.  Without citizenship the barriers to collecting in a foreign country are pretty steep.  May not be much if she begins collecting at 60 (about $1,200/month in our case), but certainly the cheapest safety net available for a Thai national.

Steve

----------


## Stumpy

Well we have been back in the US nearly 2 years now and I just submitted the I-751 "Conditions Release" form. Basically the 2 year card has conditions to make sure your not a 'Human Trafficker" or that you're not a "paid to bring her over" scammer. 

The form is quite simple and is basically a subset of the original information you have to submit to acquire the initial greencard. Its really more of a confirmation that you are still married and share the same address, joint banking accts etc. I submitted the form with docs on 9/16 registered mail. 9/22 I received a response from them stating my packet had been accepted, the $590 had been deposited and they will send out an appointment schedule to reaffirm a bio-metric scan and a new picture. They will review the supporting docs submitted and determine if an interview appt is required to validate the docs. Again I cannot impress upon anyone doing this that they do it *without* an attorney. It is not difficult. It takes time but you learn and understand the process. Anyone that has used an attorney that I have met or spoken with has always encountered delays, always required multiple interviews and I am confident are filed differently in the INS system. Some have stated that this release process takes months. It will be interesting to see. I got a response in 5 days.

Regardless, once released she will receive a 10 year greencard with no conditions. That is nice and frees us up more. Being that she is now married to a US citizen we can apply for her citizenship at the 2 year 9 month mark. Not sure our plan at this time as we intend on moving back to our home in Thailand early next year and not sure what we want to do. She does not care either way. She is content using the greencard. Clearly having a US Passport has its advantages. We will cross that bridge when we get there.

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## ltnt

JPPR,
Easier to apply for her SS benefits later on if she has the US passport...just saying.  Anything can happen at any time. :Smile:   Best insurance policy for her in the long run.  Otherwise I'd say, pass on it.

----------


## gusG

Well done, another milestone.

----------


## Stumpy

> JPPR,
> Easier to apply for her SS benefits later on if she has the US passport...just saying. Anything can happen at any time. Best insurance policy for her in the long run. Otherwise I'd say, pass on it.


I agree ltnt, It is something we are considering, So hard to predict the future and what one will need. Staying here for another year would be a challenge for me, I just want to get on with my life and all the things we have planned. Can't do that from here.




> Well done, another milestone.


Thanks Gus. We still have a few more minor details but overall the process went very well and with no issues to speak of. The US Gov site is user friendly and my wife and I enjoyed learning about the process. Of course we did not like the costs of all the filing fees but.....

----------


## kingwilly

Glad to hear all is going well.

----------


## Stumpy

Oh Yeah I have to eat my words, shortly after all this was done we got privately married in Las Vegas. It was a 4 day get stupid party staying at the Venetian. My wife is so frugal she even made her own dress. Turned out awesome.  I don't think we slept more then 6 hrs in those 4 days but I cant remember. 

So I said over and over on TD I will never ever ever marry again, so it goes.

I have a great wife who is a funny friend to boot.

With all that said, We will still move back to Thailand next year. We started our house build Aug 4th. Expected completion is Feb/March 2015 time frame. Its moving along very very well. We have a really good professional General Contractor. 

Last decision on the table is to stay for her US Passport or not. By us getting married she does not have to wait 5 years, only 3.

Cheers

----------


## Stumpy

We had our final interview on Friday 12/13/14 to release her "Greencard Contingencies". This took all of 20 minutes including the wait. Our interviewer sat us down, asked a few basics questions, confirmed our documents and slapped a big Red Stamp on the Front page, "Approved". She will receive her new 10 year greencard in a few weeks. Its free sailing now.

In 9 months we can apply for her citizenship which would be given to her at the 3 year mark.

----------


## ltnt

Congratulations, be sure to vote... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   The day after swearing in is the departure date right? To bad the Mexicans won't do the same.

----------


## Stumpy

> Congratulations, be sure to vote...  The day after swearing in is the departure date right? To bad the Mexicans won't do the same.


Thanks ltnt. Vote... :rofl:  That's funny. I am early 50's and have never voted except for myself when I ran for Treasurer in High School. 

The cargo container will be leaving the port the day after her swearing in if I can plan it that way..... :Smile:  

As for the Mexicans, I wish the US had tighter controls like Thailand has and quit letting foreigners buy the land. You can give them a passport but unless born here you can't own squat...but that's just me.

I was reading the other day there is a new ER 5 Visa where Chinese can get an instant citizenship if they drop $500,000 into land enhancements and development. WTF.. They are buying up Detroit. The US is such a greedy lot

Oh well......

----------


## Davis Knowlton

You really need to take "plight" out of your subject line - it's been about as letter perfect as could be. And congrats on the nuptials - I knew they were coming!

----------


## Stumpy

> You really need to take "plight" out of your subject line - it's been about as letter perfect as could be. And congrats on the nuptials - I knew they were coming!


DK,
You know you are right. But when I embarked on this I had no idea what was in front of me(us). It has been a seamless easy process. Its all in the details. If you do your paperwork correctly by yourself it goes a lonnnnnnng way with INS. Again I personally think if you hire an attorney it raises a flag and complicates the process. Of course the attorney wants it to draw out, they make more money..

Thanks on Marriage. I surrendered.... :smiley laughing:

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Absolutely right on doing it yourself. And, she sounds like a great gal.

----------


## Stumpy

> Absolutely right on doing it yourself. And, she sounds like a great gal.


Cheers DK. We are a good match and both quite happy.

----------


## nigelandjan

Well done JP and congrats are in order .

I know its not quite the same but I can relate to the similar feeling of relief when I completed the final hurdle and got my missus her UK passport

----------


## Stumpy

> Well done JP and congrats are in order .
> 
> I know its not quite the same but I can relate to the similar feeling of relief when I completed the final hurdle and got my missus her UK passport


Thanks Nige, Its probably close enough for us to compare the process and know the effort it takes.  We have one last hoop and that's the US citizenship test and we already have a big jump on that. Nice thing is with the contingencies released there is nothing to worry about, choice is really ours whether or not to pursue the citizenship. We are just going with the flow at this point. We tried to plan the house build in Thailand around the US citizenship date. House is ahead of schedule at this juncture.

----------


## ltnt

I think most people who use lawyers for their immigration documentation are either of two categories, immigrants who have little or no English skills or those who believe misguidedly that a lawyer is necessary.

Few native Americans would have approached this task as you have JPPR.  Dealings with Federal government agencies are not something noted for logic and reason.  It appears that your hard work paid off and that perhaps you should write a handbook for those wishing to do this work without any lawyers.  I think it would sell by the bucket load in the USA. :Smile: 

I did my own divorce using a handbook of this type.  $85 was the final court costs.  Mostly for processing paperwork.

----------


## RPETER65

> She would need to pay in to social security for 40 quarters (of a year; the equivalent of working 10 years) to collect at some future date.   At that point, she would be entitled to collect your SS monthly payment, if you should die.


I am not sure that is correct, I have talked to social security twice about my collecting off my account both times I was told good to go. She can begin collecting at 62 , at a reduced amount , while I am alive when I die the amount goes up to what I am collecting. She has no where near 10 years of paying in, bit I think she has to be married to me 10 years.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by RamboII
> 
> She would need to pay in to social security for 40 quarters (of a year; the equivalent of working 10 years) to collect at some future date. At that point, she would be entitled to collect your SS monthly payment, if you should die.
> 
> 
> Those numbers are correct. We will stick with the green card status and keep it simple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My Thai wife and I have been living in the US and Thailand for 8 years, you a Thai citizen with a green card can only stay outside the US for six months without the possibility of loosing there green card status she can buy a permit to stay longer for about $500. Staying longer than six months the immigration dept. considers they have given up the intent to stay in the US. If they are owners or co owners of property they can get around this. We were at the airport leaving for the US, a Thai women checking before us had stayed in Thailand to long she was not allowed to check in told to go to the US embassy.

----------


## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> 
> You really need to take "plight" out of your subject line - it's been about as letter perfect as could be. And congrats on the nuptials - I knew they were coming!
> 
> 
> DK,
> You know you are right. But when I embarked on this I had no idea what was in front of me(us). It has been a seamless easy process. Its all in the details. If you do your paperwork correctly by yourself it goes a lonnnnnnng way with INS. Again I personally think if you hire an attorney it raises a flag and complicates the process. Of course the attorney wants it to draw out, they make more money..
> 
> Thanks on Marriage. I surrendered....


I met my Thai wife in the US, she had over stayed her visa by 2years, with the help of a lawyer we were able to get the over stay negated and they accepted her application,it is sometimes a help to have a lawyer.

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## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> ...


RPeter,
I agree a consultation with a lawyer in extreme cases such as yours where your wife had basically become an "illegal" can be beneficial. However I would never put them on a retainer. There are many immigration attorney's that offer a 1 hour $150 sit down. Its a steal. Go in with your list of specific questions and be on your way. All the answers are out there with a little research effort.


Glad it worked out for you...

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## RPETER65

> Originally Posted by RPETER65
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by JPPR2
> ...



Our immigration lawyer was not on a retainer he charged a one time fee of $500' as he was very involved in the Thai community, and good friend of my wife's. Had it not been for the over stay problem, which could have resulted in my wife's expulsion and not being admitted back into the states, we would have gone through the process ourselves.

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## Stumpy

We are at the 2 year 9 month mark now and we can start the last segment. 

This includes the following;

File form N-400 (Application for Naturalization)
File form G-1145 (Notification of Application/Petition of acceptance)
Fees $680

Once mailed It is HIGHLY advisable not to plan any traveling outside the US. The main reason is they tend to mail you various appointments and they are really not negotiable meaning trying to change them is a real nightmare and could put the entire process in slow down mode. Coupled with that they are likely to check how many times you have left the US and for how many aggregate total days. 


First appointment is a biometric scan.


The interview. This is basically a recap of the initial interview for the greencard and the intent is to make sure you are still really married, that you have joint activities together etc etc. The critical thing is you must show viable financial means to support the both of you and have medical insurance. I was going exit my job a few months early to work with her on the test and coordinate our cargo container and its not a good idea. Remain employed and have benefits in place. Of course if you are not leaving the US nothing will change and you will need to be gainfully employed or over 62.5 and already receiving SS and Medicare in some fashion. I am a long way off from official retirement age so I have to show viable means to cover all of it. Also make sure you have both greencards (The initial one and the 10 year one) You must relinquish both. If not its a problem as they worry it got sold off and is being used by someone else fraudulently. 


The test. You get 100 questions to review and they will ask you randomly a number of them. These question are all over the internet and my wife has made flash cards and we just started going over them.

The swear in. This is when you take the oath to be a US citizen. This Oath cannot happen until you have hit the 3 year mark no matter what (5 year if you are doing this single). You can start the naturalization process at the 2 year 9 month mark but cannot be sworn in until the 3 year mark is achieved.

I will update as we move on through the next 3 month process.

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## rickschoppers

JP, I agree with Itnt about writing a book showing the detailed process. Once you get it published, it is just a matter of watching the royalties come flowing in. Well done and I admire your patience and determination. See you in Thailand.

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## Stumpy

> JP, I agree with Itnt about writing a book showing the detailed process. Once you get it published, it is just a matter of watching the royalties come flowing in. Well done and I admire your patience and determination. See you in Thailand.


RC,
Thanks. Maybe I will. I am glad to help others that go down this route. 

And yeah buddy, see you in Thailand very soon. Its almost feet up, Tequila time. :Smile:

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## Stumpy

Thought I would close this thread out and say my wife has completed her oathe pledge and is now a US citizen.

We have been living in our house in Thailand now since Feb. Lots going on.

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## aging one

Congratulations on your success after a long journey.

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## rickschoppers

Congratulations on your Herculean feat. Will talk soon.

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## Davis Knowlton

Well done, JP. Perfect execution and result. Enjoy retirement!

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## Stumpy

Thanks guys. It was fun and when she raised her hand and did the oath it was really rewarding.

I wanted to close out the thread as I always used to get frustrated when someone would start a detailed thread and never finish it. I found the same with car and moto threads.

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## naptownmike

Hi JPPR2, My wife also just finished this long process and has her passport on the way. 

 I had a question about when you travel to between Thailand and the U.S. does she show both passports? or does she just use the Thai passport on arrival in Thailand?

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

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## Storekeeper

My wife and step-daughter are in the “waiting for the interview” phase. An online account can be created to track progress in addition to waiting for the snail mail letter. Right now it shows the interview isn’t going to be before September 2020.

An interesting side not is my step-daughter is a senior now at WSU and is 22 so technically I don’t think her application is piggybacking my wife’s.

May have a complication here in the next few weeks if I get offered another job in Japan.

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## Stumpy

Glad to help Naptownmike.  She brings both.  She leaves Thailand with Thai Passport and arrives and uses US Passport.  When we leave she departs using US Passport and when we arrive in Thailand she uses her Thai Passport.

Btw. Congrats to both of you.  It sure makes life easy.

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## naptownmike

Thanks, I probably waited to long to do the final step of citizenship but it's all done now.

 My wife has been living and working and paying tax in America for 12 years.

It should definitely make travel easier and she will get SS benefits for all the years she worked here. Not that we are relying on it might be a bit of extra money.

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## naptownmike

Shorekeeper Congrats, It's a lot of paperwork and stuff to get together but definitely worth it.

 It took about 6 months from the time I first sent in her application. I think we sent it in around April and Just finished Two weeks ago.

Got it all done just in time for our trip next month I was starting to get nervous. 







> My wife and step-daughter are in the “waiting for the interview” phase. An online account can be created to track progress in addition to waiting for the snail mail letter. Right now it shows the interview isn’t going to be before September 2020.
> 
> An interesting side not is my step-daughter is a senior now at WSU and is 22 so technically I don’t think her application is piggybacking my wife’s.
> 
> May have a complication here in the next few weeks if I get offered another job in Japan.

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## Stumpy

Hey. Good thing is it's done.  I wanted my wife to have it so if Thailand went sideways she had an option as well as being able to move to the states in the event I croak and she wants to move.  My wife was only in the states working for 4 years so not gonna get much or anything from SS. But she will have access to some % of my SS bennies. 

In the end it's just a good thing for both. 

Congrats again  :Smile:

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## malenurse

My wife became a US citizen in March 2019 and My stepson applied for US citizenship in August 2019 and his interview is on December 12, 2019.  We plan  to retire to Thailand in April 2020.

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