#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Doing Things Legally >  >  Dual Nationality

## Ivor Biggun

I was told that if I register my child at the British Embassy for dual nationality that when the child reaches 18, under Thai law, they have to decide if they want to be Thai or British. Dual nationality isn't recognised after this age in Thailand. Or have I been told a load of shit. Thanks

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## Thetyim

^
My son has dual nationality and as far as I know the law is still as you have posted.

The thing is the thai don't know that he has dual nationality so when he gets to 18 no-one will ask him to make a decision.  Just be careful crossing borders and don't let the thai know that he has two passports and he should be OK

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## oldgit

Dual nationality is recognised in Thailand now, my wife has  English & Thai Passport, she uses the English passport to exit the UK and Thai one to enter Thailand. hope that helps!

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## William

It used to be the case that the age of maturity in Thailand was 20, not 18.  It could be that in certain areas this has changed.

As to the issue of dual nationality, Thailand does not acknowledge the concept of dual nationality legally; however, when a Thai person applies for a passport or ID card there is a question on the form which states something like "are you a national of another country?".  Surprisingly few people tick the box!  :Smile:

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## SEA Traveler

> Dual nationality is recognised in Thailand now, my wife has English & Thai Passport, she uses the English passport to exit the UK and Thai one to enter Thailand. hope that helps!


My spouse has both US and Thai passports and uses her papers in similar fashion.  Although the US recognizes dual citizenship they don't encourage it.  On the Thai side of things, all is legal as far as I know.

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## Thaihome

I think that these days the only issue for a Thai is a male is subject to the national service lottery at age 20 (I think).  This can be waived if what we might call ROTC courses are taken in High School, otherwise at some point he will be required to furnish the document showing he participated in the lottery.
TH

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## BalconiesR4drinkinon

I have been told I have to register with the British Embassy within 3 weeks of the birth of my child, to claim for British Nationality - Is this correct?

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## AntRobertson

> I have been told I have to register with the British Embassy within 3 weeks of the birth of my child, to claim for British Nationality - Is this correct?


I'm only doing it for my sons now and they're 7mths old, there's no age restriction and even adults can apply on their own behalf. That's New Zealand citizenship mind you, but I'd be very surprised if it's substantially different for the UK.

I'm presuming your child is part-Thai? Should be able to apply for Citizenship by Descent.  Best bet is to call the Embassy and check.

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## Red dragon

^ my son is two and a half years old and I have just registered him with UK embassy and applied for passport at same time.

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## AntRobertson

^RD,

When you say register him at the Embassy is that it?  You don't have to apply for citizenship or anything?  If that's the case then it's actually easier than the NZ system.

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## Red dragon

just fill out the forms, lady will have a quick chat and check all documents in order before sending to UK, she says yes or no or if you need anything else.
She said to me everything is in order, you can pick up UK Style Birth Certificate and Passport in 8 weeks.

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## AntRobertson

^ Oh ok, sorry misunderstood what you said.  I'm doing same process but I'm cutting out the 'middle-man' of the NZ Embassy and sending it all for processing myself.

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## dirtydog

I got to pay like 40k baht to get my son a UK passport, those cnuts still think marriage is important, and then they may turn him down, foking load of shite religion is.

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## BalconiesR4drinkinon

Yes I have a TGF so he/she will be half Thai/Falang. WOuld dual nat. give the baby the best opportunities in Thailand/UK?

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## BalconiesR4drinkinon

Forgot to say we're not married, as I'm still married to my thai ex. Will it make a difference?

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## dirtydog

^Your foked  :Smile:  You got to pay the dosh and then they may or may not issue a passport  :Smile:

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## Jewels

I have been told I have to register with the British Embassy within 3 weeks of the birth of my child, to claim for British Nationality - Is this correct?
Last I I have been told I have to register with the British Embassy within 3 weeks of the birth of my child, to claim for British Nationality - Is this correct? I read you get a year to register a child.

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## kingwilly

> Last I I have been told I have to register with the British Embassy within 3 weeks of the birth of my child, to claim for British Nationality - Is this correct? I read you get a year to register a child.


did you read all of this thread? Question has been answered.

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## Ivor Biggun

You do not have to register the birth with British Embassy. Save 10,000 Baht and just apply for a British passport. Registering the birth isn't a legal requirement. On top of all that you don't need to apply for a Thai one until the child reaches 14. A child cannot be fined for visa overs stay under the age of 14 in Thailand. So I'm led to believe

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## Ivor Biggun

> I got to pay like 40k baht to get my son a UK passport, those cnuts still think marriage is important, and then they may turn him down, foking load of shite religion is.


I just got my daughter one and it cost 5,040 Baht , incuding EMS return postage. Marriage isn't an issue now in getting a passport.

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## Red dragon

^ The laws changed in July 2006, any children born before that date Parents must have been married before Child was born if not then must pay the extra.
My Son was born November 2005 and could not register birth because I was not married also the higher charges would apply.
My friend had a child here in September 2006 he was not married and had the registration and UK passport no problem, I went to apply again and they said the laws changed but not back dated which is so full of sh*t it is unbelievable.

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## The Fish

my daughter is 8 months old, me and the Thai wife were married 2 years ago, what do I need to do, including paper work, to get the daughter a British passport and how much?
thanks

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## Red dragon

> my daughter is 8 months old, me and the Thai wife were married 2 years ago, what do I need to do, including paper work, to get the daughter a British passport and how much?
> thanks



Should be pretty straight forward for you providing you have all the paper work, i.e your original birth certificate, marriage certificate (translated into English and confirmed) Wife's I.D Card and Passport, Daughter's birth Certificate (again translated and confirmed) and if daughter has passport then that also.
They also want copies of your Passport, birth certificate.
Complete the form available at the embassy with photos of Daughter.

fee is  Child's passport = Bt. 5,320.00

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## NickA

> i.e your original birth certificate


As far as I remember they need the longer version of the birth certificate, which might not be the one that you have already.

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## Red dragon

^ yep the original is the longer version

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## NickA

^No, not exactly. The original birth certificate that I had was the short version. I had to go to the office in the UK to get the longer version.

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## JoGeAr

My son was born in Banglamung 31 July 2003. His mother and I, although we had lived together for 7 years at that stage, had never (and still haven't) married. I applied for 'Australian citizenship by right of descent' for my son in early 2006, hoping to get a passport for him before we travelled to Aus in March. It didn't come through in time so we got a Thai passport for him. After a bit of kerfuffle his Aus citizenship came through and his passport issued in June 2006. We moved to Aus in October 2006 and have been back to Thailand once since then. Used his Thai passport to enter & exit Thailand and Aus passport to exit & enter Australia. We intend to keep both nationalities for him although I'm a little worried about the 'military service' thing.  Mind you, it is 15 years away.

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## Ivor Biggun

> They also want copies of your Passport, birth certificate.


Sorry to disagree. They wont accept copies. Only original documents.

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## Ivor Biggun

> We intend to keep both nationalities for him although I'm a little worried about the 'military service' thing.


 A few Baht in the right hands will sort that out.

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## AntRobertson

> ^No, not exactly. The original birth certificate that I had was the short version. I had to go to the office in the UK to get the longer version.


The key is (once again from a NZ perspective which I doubt differs) is that it must have your parents on it as well; the 'long form' version.

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## Red dragon

> Originally Posted by The Fish
> 
> 
> my daughter is 8 months old, me and the Thai wife were married 2 years ago, what do I need to do, including paper work, to get the daughter a British passport and how much?
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Should be pretty straight forward for you providing you have all the paper work, i.e your *original* *birth certificate, marriage certificate (translated into English and confirmed) Wife's I.D Card and Passport, Daughter's birth Certificate (again translated and confirmed) and if daughter has passport then that also.*
> ...






> Originally Posted by Red dragon
> 
> They also want copies of your Passport, birth certificate.
> 
> 
> Sorry to disagree. They wont accept copies. Only original documents.



I said in my post they want original but also require copies that hey will send away

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## The Fish

> Should be pretty straight forward for you providing you have all the paper work, i.e your original birth certificate


Got the samll paper one here but I don't have the longer version of the birth certificate, how would I go about getting it while still here in Thailand?



> marriage certificate (translated into English and confirmed


) 
Not a problem



> Wife's I.D Card and Passport,


ID card ok, but she doesn't have a passport, would that make a problem?



> Daughter's birth Certificate (again translated and confirmed) and if daughter has passport then that also.


Again first part ok but no passport.

Thanks

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## Red dragon

^ the fact your wife and daughter don't have a Thai passport shouldn't be a problem,
as long as they both have indentification should be fine. 
I had my mother go to the registrar office in my hometown to get the longer version of my Birth Certificate and got it sent over.

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## NickA

Thai passports are only 1,000 baht and only take 30 minutes to apply for, you'll get them within a week. You can go to Central Bangna and maybe some of the other Centrals as well.

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## The Fish

> ^ the fact your wife and daughter don't have a Thai passport shouldn't be a problem,
> as long as they both have indentification should be fine. 
> I had my mother go to the registrar office in my hometown to get the longer version of my Birth Certificate and got it sent over.


Thanks for all that Red dragon, will get my mother onto it.
Just to re-check, the total cost will be Bt. 5,320.00? and is that for a 10 year passport?

Another thing I am not clear on is when travelling from Thailand back to England and then back to Thailand again. :Confused: 

Leave Thailand on the daughter's Thai passport?
When get to England show the Thai or British passport?
When leaving Engand show the Brithish passport or Thai passport?
When arrive back in Thailand use the Thai or British passport?

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## The Fish

> Thai passports are only 1,000 baht and only take 30 minutes to apply for, you'll get them within a week. You can go to Central Bangna and maybe some of the other Centrals as well.


To get the wife and daughter a Thai passport what paper work will I need?

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## NickA

^^just give them both and they'll check the one they need.

^birth certificate, house book, wife's ID, your passport (don't forget, i did and had to go back with it).

I think that's it.

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## Mr Pot

> Leave Thailand on the daughter's Thai passport? When get to England show the Thai or British passport? When leaving Engand show the Brithish passport or Thai passport? When arrive back in Thailand use the Thai or British passport?


Leave Thai
Enter British
Leave British
Enter Thai

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## The Fish

> Leave Thai
> Enter British
> Leave British
> Enter Thai


That's what I thought but then I had in my head this, am I wrong??




> Leave Thai


 But wouldn't you need a visa in a Thai pasport to leave Thailand and go to England??

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## NickA

^yes, they will expect to see a visa, so you have to show them the British as well.

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## The Fish

> ^yes, they will expect to see a visa, so you have to show them the British as well.


So when the daughter leaves Thailand show them the Thai and British passport no visa needed?? 
when return back into Thailand show them the Thai so they stamp the Thai passport not the Brithish pasport so there will be no Thai stamp in the daughter's British passport keeping that empy regarding visas????????????
 :UK:

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## Ivor Biggun

> Just to re-check, the total cost will be Bt. 5,320.00? and is that for a 10 year passport?


Babies passports are initially issues for 5 if under a certain age. This age I've forgot.

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## daveboy

*“Section 13 of the Citizenship Act 1965 stipulates that a female Thai national who marries a foreigner and is later granted citizenship by her foreign husband’s home country shall maintain her Thai nationality. 

There is no Thai law that stipulates that she must lose her Thai citizenship. However, she may choose to revoke her Thai citizenship, a decision the Thai government will announce the Government Gazette. 

For Thai children with dual nationality, the Citizenship Act (3rd issue) 1992 states that a Thai national with a foreign father may declare his or her intention to revoke Thai nationality within the year following the child’s 20th birthday. 

The law does not mention that the child will automatically have his or her Thai citizenship revoked. If the child does not declare his or her intention to revoke Thai citizenship, that child will still hold Thai nationality.”
*

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## daveboy

Individuals with dual nationality are full nationals of each country. When in a country where they are a national then that nationality will take precedence over the other nationality. It is irrelevant which passport was used to enter the country or whether or not the individual is resident or visiting.

Governments rarely get involved in offering assistance in situations where the dual national is present in the other country of which s/he is also a national.

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## Ivor Biggun

> So when the daughter leaves Thailand show them the Thai and British passport no visa needed?? when return back into Thailand show them the Thai so they stamp the Thai passport not the Brithish pasport so there will be no Thai stamp in the daughter's British passport keeping that empy regarding visas????????????


As I've said. If you don't want to get her a Thai passport then she is free to come and go in Thailand up until the age of 14. There is no penalty paid on a childs visa overstay under that age.

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## The Fish

Thanks for all of that, 
another thing is what are the *dis-advantages* or *advantages* if you *do* or *don't* register the birth with British Embassy? But just get the child a Brithish passport only.

As said in page 1 "Registering the birth isn't a legal requirement".

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## Ivor Biggun

Non what so ever. But you will save 10,000 Baht. That is the only difference. As long as you have a passport, that is your proof of nationality. A birth certificate isn't proof of nationality. It just proves which country you were born in which isn't proof of your nationality. If you get me drift.

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## The Fish

^ Thanks for the quick reply and for the rest, if you can think of anything else i might need to get the daughter the Brithish passport pm me if you want.
Big thanks again

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## Ivor Biggun

The Fish, you are worrying to much. As long as you are British, and her father, you will get her a passport. It takes about 21 days to apply and receive. Best of luck but you wont need it.

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## Red dragon

^
Yep, Fish your case seems pretty straight forward, just get hold of the longer version of your Birth Certificate the rest will be plain sailing.

 I opted to register my child's birth as you get a British style Birth Certificate and also registered in the UK so he doesn't have any difficulties obtaining it in the future. it is 10,000 baht but in the future if he is in a similar situation to you where he needs his Birth Certificate but doesn't have one then it is a lot of messing around and who knows how much money it will cost then.

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## Patrick

> Originally Posted by NickA
> 
> 
> ^yes, they will expect to see a visa, so you have to show them the British as well.
> 
> 
> So when the daughter leaves Thailand show them the Thai and British passport no visa needed?? 
> when return back into Thailand show them the Thai so they stamp the Thai passport not the Brithish pasport so there will be no Thai stamp in the daughter's British passport keeping that empy regarding visas????????????


 

You will need to show both Passports to the Staff at Check-in and later at Boarding because it is their responsibility to ensure that the passenger can enter the UK when the flight arrives there. 

At Thai Immigration at the Airport, they will only need to see a Thai Passport - very rarely does Immigration ask to see a Visa for the destination Country or some evidence that she could enter UK, it's not their job, all they are checking is that the passenger was in Thailand legally - which a Thai Passport obviously proves.

It's not a good idea to show Thai Immigration both Passports - as I say they just need to see the Thai one and showing them 2 will only confuse them. Some Officers may not even know that it is legal to have 2 Nationalities and cause problems.

Always enter and leave Thailand on the Thai Passport, if she uses her British Passport she is limited to how long she can stay without getting a Visa extension or whatever.

Patrick

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## Red dragon

I applied for my son's birth registration and UK passport on June 12th at the embassy in Bangkok and was told to wait 8 weeks (as I wasn't married before baby was born and he was born before July 2006) and please pay now at the counter.
was amazed that 6 weeks later to receive a call to go to the embassy and pick them up!! not only on time but 2 weeks early!!! efficiency from the UK embassy in Bangkok!!! :goldcup: 

and here he is with his two passports

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## NickA

^that section of the embassy is generally very good and I've always had good service from them, it's only the visa section that is crap.

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## Red dragon

^
oh sh*t thats next :Sad: 

The white haired British fellow in the embassy consulate section is fantastic, knows absolutely everything tells you exactly what you need to know and sometimes even more, nice bloke too, very British accent and calls people chap :Smile:

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## BalconiesR4drinkinon

^That's good to hear.

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## welshmale60

please please somebody help me heres my story ive been with my thai girlfreind now since january 2007 we have one child together born in jan 2009 in thailand im trying to get a birth certificate and passport for my half thai/farang baby ive been to the visa shops and they are asking arouund 20-25000 baht for the 2 ive got the thai birth certificate with my name on (farang) and the mothers name i know the form i got to get (c2) but im having trouble filling it in im going to try for a visa for my girlfreind on this trip JUN 10, i got all the paperwork but i know the fee for the visa is 5000 odd baht how do theese shops want so much i know i shoudnt have a problem getting the babys passport but what theese visa shops are saying to me they are difficult to get i dont know if they are just saying that to get the money but from word of mouth and previous conversations they are not difficult to get please can anybody advise me on the situation im in and the time it would take me for the baby to get her passport im pulling my air out wether to go to a shop or try myself 
thank you i hope somebody can help me 

many regards carl

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## jandajoy

> Dual nationality isn't recognised after this age in Thailand.


Most definitely is.

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## Nawty

welshy...do it yourself if you have all the paperwork...even if you do not, get it.

First rule of thumb here is never listen to any scumbag that tells you something is difficult and blah blah blah...but I can do it for 20k etc etc

Second rule is follow first rule.

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## Bogon

welshmale60.
Some more info is needed to make an assessment/give advice about the chances of getting a visa for your wife/gf.
The main criteria of getting a visa issues for the U.K is that they want to be sure that your wife/gf has a reason to RETURN.
By this I mean, is she employed/own a business? Does she own a house/have land?
Does she have any savings?
Don't waste your time on agencies. If you are genuine and meet the requirments you can do all the paper/leg work yourself.
Good luck.

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## welshmale60

thanks bogon they want 25000,for the babys british birth cert and passport ,and 30000 to try and get the visa for my gf however im unemployed but here are my points 

1.unemployed but got money in the bank 
2.gf dosent own property but has 2 children (thai) she is divorced with the cert 
3.i got all the paperwork ie long birth cert,bank statements, letters,charachater references, in the last 3 years ive spent 2,1/2  in thaialnd with rental receipts, airline tickets, 
4. my mother and father is going to be an accomadation sponsor (also i got the deeds (original) with me to show the goverment that the house is paid for)
photos of my mother and father  gas electric bills 
5,my mother and father have got plenty of money to show if needed

also if sucessfull will i need to buy a return ticket to thailand for my gf as im only tring for a holiday (6 months visa )

if anybody can help id appreatiate it thanks again  

carl

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## Bobcock

Lets hope you don't suffer from the criminal actions of those who choose to obtain visa fraudulently for financial gain.

Sadly there are many that do....

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## welshmale60

im 100% genuine

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## Bogon

^ Looks like you have the funds and means to get the visa.
The only stumbling block could be the reason of why your GF should/want to return to Thailand?
A six month visa seems too long for her first visit to the U.K. Why not try for something shorter first, say a month and then if successful you apply for a longer visa next time.
Will she be leaving the kids in Thailand? If the answer is in the affirmative then the powers that be may ask why would you leave them for 6 months?
They may also ask why would you like a 6 month visa? That seems a awfully long time to visit friends and family!
Don't panic about buying an airline ticket. You can go to a travel agents and prebook a ticket that they can hold for you for 48hrs without any money being laid out. Get a print out of th itinary from the travel agent and supply this with your paperwork.
Just make sure that your GF's reasons to return outweigh her reasons to stay in the U.K.

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## welshmale60

thank you bogon holiday visas now are 6 months not three months her 2 children will be staying for schooling purposes etc but my baby will be traveling with us i want to travel to the uk on the 11 august and return early  december just me and my gf the baby will stay in the uk my purpose for going back to thailand at that time would be to apply for another holiday visa i could possibly get a letter from one of my well to do thai freinds to say that she has been working for them and she still got a job to come back to after her holiday in the uk do you think i should spend the 30,000 at the visa shop or try myself also if the visa would be granted would i have to show when we land a return ticket for my girlfreind 

many thanks

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## Bobcock

Oh I don't doubt it....but there are scum out there who fuck it up for decent cases like you.

My dealings with the Visa department over the years have been quite pleasurable, I have never failed to get the visa required. Just get your paperwork in order, supply what they ask for, nothing less. they aren't suddenly going to say "Oh he seems like a nice chap we'll not be requiring that item he cannot provide then" and you will be successful.

Don't pay the visa service scum......

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## Bogon

^ Don't get me wrong mate. I am not an expert of pro at obtaining visas.
I used to write about 3 or 4 visa applications per month for students wanting to attend educational institutes in the U.K and had a 100% pass rate.
I have also helped a few mates with paperwork and have a rough idea of how the "system" works.
My advice is not to lie on your applicaton and be as prepared as you can.
I have stressed and will stress again. They want to see a solid reason of why your GF would want to return to Thailand.
I would not go down the route of saying your missus was employed by one of you well to do friends for various reasons. A few of these being...your GF's bankbook would show this was false, where are the tax reciepts?, her employer would submit a letter saying how long she worked for him/her and that your GF would gladly be reemployed on her return to Thailand.
I wish I could help you further, but my knowledge is limited and I would not like to give you false hope or dissapointment.
An agency will always say you have a 99% chance of success because that is how they make money (Non-refundable deposits and such).
I do hope some other posters butt in and offer you extra advice.
Please keep us updated and goodluck.
Oh, last point. If you wanna spend 30,000 large on an agency I would gladly give you the same service for 30% less!
They do exactly what you would do, but put it in a pretty folder!

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## Spikey

My wife and I have two sons born in OZ but hold dual citizenship by birth. They have Thai birth certificates.
We are building a house in Thailand where we will retire. What happens when we cark it and pass the house/land to our sons?
Do they have to participate in the National Service lottery? (the oldest is already in the Australian Army).
If they don't go in the lottery can they still inherit the house and land?

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## Phuketrichard

> I was told that if I register my child at the British Embassy for dual nationality that when the child reaches 18, under Thai law, they have to decide if they want to be Thai or British. Dual nationality isn't recognised after this age in Thailand. Or have I been told a load of shit. Thanks


Bullshit BUT
if your child is male and he does keep his thai nationality he will be subjected to having to be in the  lottery to possible join up in the Army.
Happened to a friend of mine son here in Phuket even though he was in university in Bangkok at the time. So he is now serving 2 years in nakon nowhere as the assistant to the head honcho cause his English is better and he is also teaching some of the officers English as my friends son  had an international education years 1-12

Only way around it is if he leave Thailand till he is 26  (or so I am told) which is what another friend of mines  is doing, His son is heading to America for 8 years.  He was told by the amphur in Surin that they MIGHT be able to get him to not be accepted for 50,000 baht, ( if he was called up)  but not 100% sure they could do it

MY daughter holds Thai and American and never will have to choose  :-)

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## Patrick

> My wife and I have two sons born in OZ but hold dual citizenship by birth. They have Thai birth certificates.
> We are building a house in Thailand where we will retire. What happens when we cark it and pass the house/land to our sons?
> Do they have to participate in the National Service lottery? (the oldest is already in the Australian Army).
> If they don't go in the lottery can they still inherit the house and land?


The National Service Lottery has no bearing on their Thai citizenship, they are 100% Thai with all the rights that entails, including the absolute right to buy or inherit Land here.

Patrick

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## Patrick

> Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun
> 
> 
> I was told that if I register my child at the British Embassy for dual nationality that when the child reaches 18, under Thai law, they have to decide if they want to be Thai or British. Dual nationality isn't recognised after this age in Thailand. Or have I been told a load of shit. Thanks
> 
> 
> Bullshit BUT
> if your child is male and he does keep his thai nationality he will be subjected to having to be in the  lottery to possible join up in the Army.
> Happened to a friend of mine son here in Phuket even though he was in university in Bangkok at the time. So he is now serving 2 years in nakon nowhere as the assistant to the head honcho cause his English is better and he is also teaching some of the officers English as my friends son  had an international education years 1-12
> ...


There is a provision in the Thai Nationality act whereby someone with Dual Nationality MAY choose, in the year after he / she reaches 20, to renounce the Thai Nationality. The key word is "may", there is no obligation to choose and no penalty for not doing so. Naturally the vast majority simply choose to do nothing and thus retain both Nationalities.

As far as the National Service Lottery is concerned, if the male child is studying in Thailand he can join the Officer Cadet scheme (not actually sure what it's called but the Secondary School he attends will know) whereby he has to complete various courses, weekends away training etc., but if he passes the Course he is exempt from the Lottery.

Patrick

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## Seekingasylum

Welshmale60,

What is your status in Thailand? How old are you? What are your intentions? Do you intend to remain in Thailand and if so on what basis? Your last post was a little ambiguous. What do you mean by saying you will return to Thailand in December in order to apply for another holiday visa?

The obvious suspicion likely to be harboured by the visa officer is that you intend to return to the UK with your British child and GF for settlement under the guise of a visit because you think she may not qualify under the rules. Thus, you will come under scrutiny as much as your GF.

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## superman

> As far as the National Service Lottery is concerned, if the male child is studying in Thailand he can join the Officer Cadet scheme (not actually sure what it's called but the Secondary School he attends will know) whereby he has to complete various courses, weekends away training etc., but if he passes the Course he is exempt from the Lottery.


 It's just the same as we have in our country's. It's a cadet force and it does indeed exempt you from call-up if you complete the course at school. So my wife tells me.

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## DrAndy

> Welshmale60,
> 
> What is your status in Thailand? How old are you? What are your intentions? Do you intend to remain in Thailand and if so on what basis? Your last post was a little ambiguous. What do you mean by saying you will return to Thailand in December in order to apply for another holiday visa?
> 
> The obvious suspicion likely to be harboured by the visa officer is that you intend to return to the UK with your British child and GF for settlement under the guise of a visit because you think she may not qualify under the rules. Thus, you will come under scrutiny as much as your GF.


ermm, did you not notice the date he posted that?

I know you like to call me thick but....

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## Seekingasylum

Oops.

Well spotted 'shandy. No flies on you, eh?

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## CaptainNemo

> Originally Posted by Patrick
> 
> As far as the National Service Lottery is concerned, if the male child is studying in Thailand he can join the Officer Cadet scheme (not actually sure what it's called but the Secondary School he attends will know) whereby he has to complete various courses, weekends away training etc., but if he passes the Course he is exempt from the Lottery.
> 
> 
>  It's just the same as we have in our country's. It's a cadet force and it does indeed exempt you from call-up if you complete the course at school. So my wife tells me.


Sounds like the OTC at uni in the UK. My Siamese sister in law did it I think. She was a Lt. by the time she graduated, and she seemed to have no trouble landing a government job afterwards. She did it to impress her dad. I think women are exempt from the lottery (and that probably extends to half-Thai female children).

I wonder what happens if your half-Thai son joins the non-Thai parent's country's military... e.g. if they joined the Limey/Ocker/Kiwi/Canuck Army, they'd have to swear allegiance to Liz, and that would seem incompatible with serving in the Army of another monarchy.

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## Spikey

That is exactly our problem. Both Our boys were born in Oz but have dual (Thai/Oz) nationality by birth.
The oldest, 19 years old has just joined the Australian Army.

What happens at lottery time?

If he doesn't front up for the lottery what happens when we cark it and bequeath the house in Thailand to them?

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## Patrick

> That is exactly our problem. Both Our boys were born in Oz but have dual (Thai/Oz) nationality by birth.
> The oldest, 19 years old has just joined the Australian Army.
> 
> What happens at lottery time?
> 
> If he doesn't front up for the lottery what happens when we cark it and bequeath the house in Thailand to them?


I am not sure if having served in the Armed Forces of another Country entitles a Dual National to claim exemption from the Thai National Service Lottery, perhaps check with the Thai Embassy?

In any case if he is living abroad and does not return to Thailand before the age of 30 he is automatically exempt - however he will need to get an official document from the Thai authorities proving that.

Finally as I have already Posted the National Service Lottery has absolutely no bearing on his Thai Citizenship and he will not - can not - lose it simply because he does not turn up for the Lottery draw. He will always be a Thai citizen (unless he renounces it of course) and can inherit Land in Thailand or even buy in his own name tomorrow.

Patrick

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## Phuketrichard

one thing for those that hold dual Thai/American nationality.
If they serve in the thai military they will lose their us citizenship. As a US citizen can not serve in a foreign military.

Not sure how it works the other way as if they serve in Oz already.

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## CaptainNemo

> one thing for those that hold dual Thai/American nationality.
> If they serve in the thai military they will lose their us citizenship. As a US citizen can not serve in a foreign military.


Not sure about that, I'm sure I've heard of a Yank officer in the RN, because of having dual nationality.

The British forces have many personnel from around the Commonwealth - even places (like Fiji and Nepal) that don't share the same head of state as us - but they all have to swear allegiance to Her Maj`.

So basically, all your kids have to do is (do what draught-dodgers like Shinawatra did) and spend their 18-30s outside Thailand studying and working, and going elsewhere on holiday.

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## Thaihome

> one thing for those that hold dual Thai/American nationality.
> If they serve in the thai military they will lose their us citizenship. As a US citizen can not serve in a foreign military.
> 
> Not sure how it works the other way as if they serve in Oz already.


 
Not since the 1967 Supreme Court decision that says it must be established that the citizen intended to relinquish US nationality.  Serving in a foreign military does not automatically make you lose your US citizenship.
TH

Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Foreign Military Service

_Loss of U.S. nationality was almost immediate consequences of foreign military service and the other acts listed in Section 349(a) until 1967 when the Supreme Court handed down its decision in Afroyim v. Rusk , 387 U.S. 253. In that decision, the court declared unconstitutional the provisions of Section 349(a) which provided for loss of nationality by voting in a foreign election. In so doing, the Supreme Court indicated foreign election. In so doing, the Supreme Court indicated that a U.S. citizen "has a constitutional right to remain a citizen... unless he voluntarily relinquishes that citizenship."_ 

_Further confirmation of the necessity to establish the citizen's intent to relinquish nationality before expatriation will result came in the opinion in Vance v. Terrazas , 444 U.S. 252 (1980). The Court stated that "expatriation depends on the will of the citizen rather than on the will of Congress and its assessment of his conduct." The Court also indicated that a person's intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship may be shown by statements or actions._ 

_Military service in foreign countries usually does not cause loss of citizenship since an intention to relinquish citizenship normally is lacking.  In adjudicating loss of nationality cases, the Department has established an administrative presumption that a person serving in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities against the United States does not have the intention to  relinquish citizenship.  Voluntary service in the armed forces of a state engaged in hostilities against the United States could be viewed as indicative of an intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship._

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## Phuketrichard

I stand corrected 

I just read number 13  on important information in the US passport.

It also say on ur link,  


> Such participation by citizens of our country in the internal affairs of  foreign countries can cause problems in the conduct                         of our foreign relations and may involve U.S.  citizens in hostilities against countries with which we are at peace.  For this                         reason, U.S. citizens facing the possibility of  foreign military service should do what is legally possible to avoid  such                         service.


Also read # 14 which discuss  dual Citizens

US State Department Services Dual Nationality

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## Spikey

Thanks for the feedback. I think the chances of keeping him out of Thailand until he is thirty sits somewhere between bugger all and nil. 
His Army mates will be putting pressure on him for a guided tour

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## Patrick

> Thanks for the feedback. I think the chances of keeping him out of Thailand until he is thirty sits somewhere between bugger all and nil. 
> His Army mates will be putting pressure on him for a guided tour


If he comes for short visits then I am sure it will not be a problem.

Only if he returns and lives permanently here would he be liable for the Lottery - the notification is sent to the address shown on the Tabian Ban which he used to obtain Thai Citizenship; if he is not currently resident there the home-owner is responsible for notifying the authorities as to the reason he cannot respond to the summons - e.g. "resident abroad" - however if he is permanently resident elsewhere in Thailand the Tabian Ban home-owner is responsible for telling the authorities that too.

Patrick

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