#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > Business, Finance & Economics in Thailand >  >  Trade war escalation could smash global economy and equities: UBS

## David48atTD

Global share markets plummeting more than 20 per cent,  economies shrinking and inflation re-ignited is the gloomy prognosis 
for  a trade war from giant investment bank UBS.

*Key points:*
A full trade could see global equities tumble by more than 20pc and global GDP tumble according to UBSThe escalation to a full-out war with a blanket 30pc tariff on Chinese imports plus retaliation could start as early as OctoberKey protagonists US and China likely to be the biggest losers 

While the current situation is bad, the fully-blown  "trade war" scenario  where the US imposes all the actions it has so  far threatened 
and China retaliates as expected  things would become  decidedly ugly.
Global GDP growth would fall by 1 percentage point and inflation would rise by 0.3 percentage points. 
The  biggest losers would be the key protagonists  the US and China  with  GDP falling with a thud, down 2.5 and 2.3 percentage 
points  respectively.
The US and China would also be hit with higher-than-average inflation spikes.



On UBS's modelling, the 10 per cent tariff would see the key US equities benchmark, the S&P500, fall 10 per cent.
The  full-blown trade war would more than double that decline, plunging US  equities deep into bear territory as average 
earnings fall by around 15  per cent.
Asian equities would fall by 24 per cent and Europe by 25 per cent.
US hardest hit

There are plenty of other consequences too. 
Global interest  rates would fall, US 10-year bonds would drop around 50 basis points and  the expected hikes from the 
US Federal Reserve next year would be taken  off the table.
Lower growth would also translate to demand for  oil falling by around 500,000 barrels per day and prices tumbling 
back  under $US60 a barrel.

*While mutually assured pain is inevitable, the US may suffer the most in the case of an all out trade war.*

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## uncle junior

Good for BRICS

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## mark45y

I have an education in economics.  All I can tell you is because of the trade imbalance, the U.S. has the potential to hurt  China more than the other way around through the tariffs.  China can expect bankruptcies higher unemployment and less money for travel.  I'd imagine this would effect European travel more than Thai tourism.  In fact as Thailand is a cheaper alternative it may mean more business for Thailand.  

I think if you query any economist not grinding an ax you will get the same opinion.  This is a win for Trump.  Media and left wing universities will try to spin it in the other direction.  Did you expect anything else?

This happened to me a number of times in college as economics professors sometimes make god like pronouncements to match political leanings and have to be reminded 2 + 2 = 4.

Not rocket science.  USA buys a lot from China.  China does not buy much from USA.

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## TuskegeeBen

> I have an education in economics.  All I can tell you is because of the trade imbalance, the U.S. has the potential to hurt  China more than the other way around through the tariffs.  China can expect bankruptcies higher unemployment and less money for travel.  I'd imagine this would effect European travel more than Thai tourism.  In fact as Thailand is a cheaper alternative it may mean more business for Thailand.  
> 
> I think if you query any economist not grinding an ax you will get the same opinion.  This is a win for Trump.  Media and left wing universities will try to spin it in the other direction.  Did you expect anything else?
> 
> This happened to me a number of times in college as economics professors sometimes make god like pronouncements to match political leanings and have to be reminded 2 + 2 = 4.


  :smilie_clap:  Spot-on. However, the Chinese consumers (on the street-levels) are considerably more resourceful, and resilient, than are their U.S. counter-parts.

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## Maanaam

> oil falling by around 500,000 barrels per day and prices tumbling 
> back under $US60 a barrel.


Which has it's own set of repurcussions, not least that it completely undermines Trump's NATO designs WRT Germany.  :Smile:

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## cisco999

Those who run things couldn't care less about their subjects.

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## Maanaam

> China can expect bankruptcies higher unemployment and less money for travel.


Do you think Xi cares? More peasants on the soybean farms. Xi doesn't need votes like Trump does. China winning all the way.
Also, China has it's 5, 10, 15, 20, 50 year plans....this is probably a blip in the plan, and maybe even a predicted one.

Xi does not need votes and doesn't give a hoot about the peasants or the middle class, and that is where China's strength lies. Of course China will win out in the end. And just deserts to Trump's America and his voters.

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## bsnub

> I have an education in economics.


Not a very good one as you have been tripping over your own dick in the Trump thread in SC. 




> All I can tell you is because of the trade imbalance, the U.S. has the potential to hurt China more than the other way around through the tariffs.


An incredibly naive assumption that does not take into account that these tariffs will affect almost all US companies as the supply chains do to globalization are interwoven. Not to mention that China owns trillions of dollars in US debt all they have to do is start liquidating that and it will have a terrible effect on the US economy. 




> This is a win for Trump.


Spoken from your right wing echo chamber and as usual you are wrong AGAIN. No wonder you have most of us in ignore. You do not really want an honest debate do you Mark?




> Not rocket science. USA buys a lot from China. China does not buy much from USA.


Actually it is complex. Very complex and if you had an actual clue about economics you would understand this.

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## TuskegeeBen

> Do you think Xi cares? More peasants on the soybean farms. Xi doesn't need votes like Trump does. China winning all the way.
> Also, China has it's 5, 10, 15, 20, 50 year plans....this is probably a blip in the plan, and maybe even a predicted one.
> 
> Xi does not need votes and doesn't give a hoot about the peasants or the middle class, and that is where China's strength lies. Of course China will win out in the end. And just deserts to Trump's America and his voters.


Hello, there, Mr. "Stalker". Fyi ~ TB did not post what you've highlighted as a quote. Despite your academic response being *spot-on*, your personal obsession (with me), is clearly obvious. Get a grip, man!  :enough:

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## Maanaam

> Hello, there, Mr. "Stalker". Fyi ~ TB did not post what you've highlighted as a quote. Despite your academic response being *spot-on*, your personal obsession (with me), is clearly obvious. Get a grip, man!


Ben, if you think I'm stalking you you've got more ego issues than Lulu!
Even a simple person having used this forum will realise that the quote function quotes the last person to quote some words, thus if you quote Mark (who I have on ignore but that's neither here nor there) and I then quote you quoting Mark, it shows as I am quoting you.
No nested quotes on this forum.

Get a grip!  :Smile: 
And learn how the forum works.

BTW, it's actually the opposite of stalking: When I see a new post is from you, I don't go to the thread as a matter of keeping my sanity unless I'm following that thread despite your contributions.

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## David48atTD

> ... Not to mention that China owns trillions of dollars in US debt all they have to do is start liquidating that and it will have a terrible effect on the US economy ...


A very valid point and a keystone to the complex issues that face the US economy and, in turn, the World economy.

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## mark45y

> A very valid point and a keystone to the complex issues that face the US economy and, in turn, the World economy.


Would China want the value of it's trillions of US securities (debt) to fall in value?  Do you really think it wants to lower the value of it's trillion dollars in US debt?  555.  That is just silly.  The USA is sure to win.  The markets will realize this soon.  Did stocks go up or down in Europe and Asia today?  So, now you know.  You read it here.  Remember this, the Russian and Chinese trolls want you to think Trump and the USA is in trouble so he will back down.  Trump owns the Republican party.  90% support.  Do you think his worried?

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## PlanK

You would expect that whoever started the trade war would have run the numbers beforehand and seen that the outcome was favourable.

Given the amount of corruption and incompetency of many leaders, this cannot be actually be expected, maybe more wishful thinking.

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## bsnub

> Would China want the value of it's trillions of US securities (debt) to fall in value? Do you really think it wants to lower the value of it's trillion dollars in US debt?


You moron they would liquidate them all at once to disrupt the market. Do you really think that they are stupid enough to do anything otherwise? 




> That is just silly.


Your childish understanding of economics sure is. 




> The USA is sure to win.


Not this time trumpanzee. 




> the Russian and Chinese trolls want you to think Trump and the USA is in trouble so he will back down.


You never stop with the idiocy and you continue to dig yourself into a deep hole of stupidity with every post. Russian trolls love your orange god you moron he is walking into every trap Putin sets. 




> Trump owns the Republican party. 90% support.


Yep and why is that? They are a bunch of dogma slaves and racist. The only intelligent conservatives have left the party ala George Will. 




> Do you think his worried?


I think he is very afraid. Everyday he wakes up the first thing he worries about is Mueller.  :Smile:

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## tomcat

> This is a win for Trump


...Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas soy bean farmers who voted for him may wonder how this benefits them...Wisconsin dairy farmers may wonder the same thing...if these groups, and many others in agriculture, begin to understand what ignorant bloviating hucksters tRump and his B-team circle are, there is some hope for the US...otherwise, there is much worse to come...this is what happens when education fails...

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## David48atTD

> A very valid point and a keystone to the complex issues that face the US economy and, in turn, the World economy.





> Would China want the value of it's trillions of US securities (debt) to fall in value?  Do you really think it wants to lower the value of it's trillion dollars in US debt? ...


No, not for a second, hence my comment ... _the complex issues that face the US economy_





> ... The USA is sure to win. ...


Whoa there kemosabe ... not necessarily

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## tomcat

> Whoa there kemosabe


...you're dealing with an economics major, David...I believe Peter Navarro, captain of tRump's economics B-team, also majored in economics: both demonstrate the failure of education in the US...

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## mark45y

> You would expect that whoever started the trade war would have run the numbers beforehand and seen that the outcome was favourable.
> 
> Given the amount of corruption and incompetency of many leaders, this cannot be actually be expected, maybe more wishful thinking.


Not hard to figure.  USA imports from China 506 billion.  China imports from USA 130 billion.  USA can replace all the Chinese imports costs pennies on the dollar.  China can't create a market that will buy 506 billion dollars for the foreseeable future.  USA exports 2.3 trillion dollars.  How important is 130 billion.  East to figure who is going squeal.

There are interests that don't want the above information to become common knowledge.

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## tomcat

> Not hard to figure





> Easy to figure who is going squeal.


...tRump's sentiments I'm sure, though they aren't based on an economics degree...or international experience in economics...or anything except that such comments are...easy to tweet...

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## bsnub

> Not hard to figure. USA imports from China 506 billion. China imports from USA 130 billion.


It actually is far more complex. Did you or did you not plain to be a professor of Economics at a black college in the US? 




> USA can replace all the Chinese imports costs pennies on the dollar.


HAHAHAHA!  Let us watch the stock market.

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## David48atTD

> Not hard to figure.  USA imports from China 506 billion.  China imports from USA 130 billion.  USA can replace all the Chinese imports costs pennies on the dollar.  China can't create a market that will buy 506 billion dollars for the foreseeable future.  USA exports 2.3 trillion dollars.  How important is 130 billion.  East to figure who is going squeal.
> 
> There are interests that don't want the above information to become common knowledge.


Reference to confirm your Facts above please.

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## HuangLao

Dreams worlds dangerously taken literally...
Sums it up. 

Consider the sources.

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## mark45y

> Reference to confirm your Facts above please.


google USA China trade deficit google will give you any of the answers I have no secret sources.  https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-china-trade-deficit-causes-effects-and-solutions-3306277

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## mark45y

Do you want to know in advance if the USA is winning the trade war?  Look at the markets.  

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/07/0...-think-so.html

Compare the 
*Shanghai (.SSEC:Shanghai Stock Exchange)                	    	with the Dow or S&P last 3 months. *

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## TuskegeeBen

> Do you want to know in advance if the USA is winning the trade war?  Look at the markets.  
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/07/0...-think-so.html
> 
> Compare the 
> *Shanghai (.SSEC:Shanghai Stock Exchange)                            with the Dow or S&P last 3 months. *


 Honestly, I'd place my bets on your side of the debate fence. Reason: You don't come across, as a *know-it-all*, on nearly every OP topic thread posted. Have a pleasant evening, sir. Cheers  :Smile:

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## TuskegeeBen

> Ben, if you think I'm stalking you you've got more ego issues than Lulu!
> Even a simple person having used this forum will realise that the quote function quotes the last person to quote some words, thus if you quote Mark (who I have on ignore but that's neither here nor there) and I then quote you quoting Mark, it shows as I am quoting you.
> No nested quotes on this forum.
> 
> Get a grip! 
> And learn how the forum works.
> 
> BTW, it's actually the opposite of stalking: When I see a new post is from you, I don't go to the thread as a matter of keeping my sanity unless I'm following that thread despite your contributions.


*Ditto ^* The gift of *gab*, you definitely have. You're a forum *stalker*  :ourrules: *,* and that's not my singular observation of your forum behavior (in my regard), either. Just the* facts!*  :Cool2:

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## mark45y

*Tech stocks touch record highs, dollar steadies as trade fears ebb*

By Hilary Russ

ReutersJuly 13, 2018



Traders work on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) in New York, U.S., July 11, 2018. REUTERS/Brendan McDermid

By Hilary Russ
NEW  YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stocks closed higher on Thursday as industrials  rebounded and technology names soared, while commodities recovered and  the dollar held steady after concerns over an escalating U.S. trade war  with China took a breather.
Technology  companies - including Facebook, Microsoft and Amazon - hit all-time  intraday highs, helping to power the NASDAQ stock exchange to a record  high.
Metals also made a comeback, with bargain-hunting investors scrambling to buy, while oil prices steadied.
The  Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 224.44 points, or 0.91 percent, to  24,924.89, the S&P 500 gained 24.27 points, or 0.87 percent, to  2,798.29 and the Nasdaq Composite added 107.31 points, or 1.39 percent,  to 7,823.92.

Currency investors may see positive implications for the dollar from a  trade war, as the United States would be better equipped to weather a  slowdown in trade than other major economies.

U.S. Treasury yields also edged higher on the inflation data.

Wasn't it someone on this thread that said the markets would predict the winner of the trade war?  

If anyone was shorting the USA as a result of the trade war now would be the best time to reverse your positions.

I'm not an expert on these things all I know is what I read in the news (real news). Of course everyone knows that tech stocks are a more sensitive and accurate indicator because of the Chinese dominance in this area and would be the first to tank if China was winning the trade war but if one reads the above it also relies on currency value and industrial stocks.

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## bsnub

> Tech stocks touch record highs


Tech is not affected by these tariffs at this point Mark. If you are posting that to in some way validate your pathetic lack of understanding with regards to economics you just dug a bigger hole for yourself. 

The tech industry is overwhelmingly progressive and is the engine that is driving the economy.

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## uncle junior

The retail goods effected by the tariffs haven't hit the shelves yet plus anybody in a business hit by the tariffs probably upped their purchases and stockpiled as much as they could to avoid the new expense. Gonna take a little time for the full effects of the tariffs to hit home.

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## mark45y

> The retail goods effected by the tariffs haven't hit the shelves yet plus anybody in a business hit by the tariffs probably upped their purchases and stockpiled as much as they could to avoid the new expense. Gonna take a little time for the full effects of the tariffs to hit home.


It is called the futures market because it deals with prices in the future.  Chicago board of trade.  If you want to see the effect of the Chinese tariffs on soybeans check out the soybean futures.

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## OhOh

> I have an education in economics.



Why would a man of such stature be spending his time here. One would think you would be out spending your fortune made by forecasting correctly the last markets top and bottom.




> USA buys a lot from China. China does not buy much from USA.


"Assembled" by Chinese in many foreign owned companies As you are well aware, or should be, many countries sell inexpensive components to Chinese based companies.. The ameristani count the finished product price as opposed to the Chinese assemblers and component makers, "Value add". They are chalk and cheese.

*China's foreign trade surges


*A heavy-duty truck transports containers at a foreign trade container  terminal in Qingdao, East China's Shandong province, on June 8, 2018.

"China's foreign trade surged 7.9 percent year-on-year to 14.12  trillion yuan ($2.12 trillion) in the first half of 2018, despite  challenges to the world's multilateral trading system by protectionist  policies by the United States.  The country's exports grew by 4.9 percent year-on-year to 7.51  trillion yuan from January to June of 2018, while imports amounted to  6.61 trillion yuan, up 11.5 percent from the same period a year earlier,  data from the General Administration of Customs showed.

  GAC spokesman Huang Songping said the growth of China's foreign trade  benefited from the global economy's recovery, the country's efforts to  optimize its industrial structure and new measures for opening-up in  both trade and investment.

The trade volume between China and the US grew 5.2 percent  year-on-year to 1.93 trillion yuan in the first six months of 2018,  *accounting for 17.7 percent of China's foreign trade*.

China's foreign trade surges - Chinadaily.com.cn

Many might say any numbers emanating from China are false, many others may suggest ameristani MSM numbers are false. But many "eminant educated economists" made great fools of them selves in previous crises.



This site suggested ASEAN countries are at top place for China's export trade, 44%, Europe 21% and ameristan 19%.

This site suggested ASEAN countries are at top place for China's import trade, 51%, Europe 21% and ameristan 10%.

https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/chn/#Trade_Balance


I suppose if ameristan threatened all of China's export markets and import suppliers with nuclear extinction, if they continued  trading with China, some might wave the white flag and Kowtow. But I suspect the fear is evaporating, now alternates are appearing on the near horizon.

There is growth available in China, Asia ......... awaiting. 

ameristan offers none, it's credit, resources, integrity and vision are zero. Debt, apathy, unrest and division crawl the septic streets of ameristan. 

If goldolicks called for a public embargo on China, how many of the 25% of his citizens who voted for him would bite the bullet? How many could afford to?

If Uncle Xi called his citizens, well we know what happens already, they would stop any purchases, dead. They remember the past, it wont happen again.

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## tomcat

> The retail goods effected by the tariffs haven't hit the shelves yet





> If you want to see the effect of the Chinese tariffs on soybeans check out the soybean futures


...there's no futures market for retail goods...perhaps you missed that economics class...a good non sequitur though...

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## mark45y

> Why would a man of such stature be spending his time here. One would think you would be out spending your fortune made by forecasting correctly the last markets top and bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> "Assembled" by Chinese in many foreign owned companies As you are well aware, or should be, many countries sell inexpensive components to Chinese based companies.. The ameristani count the finished product price as opposed to the Chinese assemblers and component makers, "Value add". They are chalk and cheese.
> 
> *China's foreign trade surges
> 
> *A heavy-duty truck transports containers at a foreign trade container  terminal in Qingdao, East China's Shandong province, on June 8, 2018.
> ...


I don't think anyone would say the American numbers are false and tariffs take the decision away from the consumer and put in Trump's hands.    Looking at the near term performance of the markets and long term indications of the futures markets  I would say America has won the trade war.   I'd get another source than China daily news.  

(I guess many people don't understand the futures market.  For example if I owned a steak house I would buy cattle futures to hedge my risk and lock in the price I wanted to pay for beef.)       https://www.tdameritrade.com.sg/tdaa...s%20%2Btrading

America has the largest and most successful economy in the world that is why China has invested 1 trillion dollars in the USA.  How much has China invested in your country?

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## OhOh

> Tech stocks touch record highs, dollar steadies as trade fears ebb


Ebbs  and flows depending on a tweet! because that is what drives ameristani MSM financial stations. Are seriously suggesting that real  investment by companies to ensure a future for their companies relies on a  here today gone tomorrow politician?




> If you want to see the effect of the Chinese tariffs on soybeans check out the soybean futures.


The ameristani mid west farmers are screaming, didn't that mid west band of voters choose goldilocks? The guy you believe has his, up for re-election this autumn, party politicians 99% in his pocket. 

The FANGS are the stocks to watch, any interference/slowing of their quarterly sales figures, will be mirrored in their price and will devastate the largest winning market group and pull all others down with it.

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## mark45y

> Ebbs  and flows depending on a tweet! because that is what drives ameristani MSM financial stations. Are seriously suggesting that real  investment by companies to ensure a future for their companies relies on a  here today gone tomorrow politician?
> 
> 
> 
> The ameristani mid west farmers are screaming, didn't that mid west band of voters choose goldilocks? The guy you believe has his, up for re-election this autumn, party politicians 99% in his pocket. 
> 
> The FANGS are the stocks to watch, any interference/slowing of their quarterly sales figures, will be mirrored in their price and will devastate the largest winning market group and pull all others down with it.


1. Soybeans show recovery in 2020.  2.  There are other markets for soybeans.  3.  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1HB11V

4.  There simply aren’t enough soybeans in the world outside of the U.S. to meet China’s needs,” said Mark Williams, chief Asia economist at Capital Economics.

Sorry but I don't like the funny names for America it's childish and I will not support your use of them and will not respond to you if you continue to use them.  The country is America, USA or US.

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## Hugh Cow

By Mark45y: Sorry but I don't like the funny names for America it's childish and I will not support your use of them and will not respond to you if you continue to use them. The country is America, USA or US. 
Must agree on that. It is childish and has become tedious. OhOh might be taken a little more seriously if he spoke in terms at a level above kindergarten name calling.

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## tomcat

> OhOh might be taken a little more seriously if he spoke in terms at a level above kindergarten name calling.


...or not...

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## mark45y

> By Mark45y: Sorry but I don't like the funny names for America it's childish and I will not support your use of them and will not respond to you if you continue to use them. The country is America, USA or US. 
> Must agree on that. It is childish and has become tedious. OhOh might be taken a little more seriously if he spoke in terms at a level above kindergarten name calling.


I don't mind any criticism of any country America included.  But it strikes me as the dumbing down of the world.  Name calling is not an adult thing.  S&P 500 is at a 5 month high.  America won the trade war if the results are based on the stock exchange results.  The response?  You idiot.  You fooking coint.  You dingbat.  Is this really adult conversation?  But having said that I respect any intellectually challenged person who finds that his only option for disagreement but I won't participate in the discussion as it reinforces his childish tantrums.

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## tomcat

> America won the trade war if the results are based on the stock exchange results.


...opening shots of the trade war have just been fired and you're declaring victory...seems a bit simple-minded (if you don't like idiot)...

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## uncle junior

the whole idea of trading is both sides profit from it....i doubt there will be any winner...just losers.

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## mark45y

> the whole idea of trading is both sides profit from it....i doubt there will be any winner...just losers.


China was stealing American technology.  China makes half the world’s steel with the help of heavy government subsidies and other unfair advantages, a new report found.  The European Union has set duties of up to 35.9 percent on imports of  hot-rolled flat steel from China to counter what it says are unfair  subsidies.  So let me get it straight.  OK if EU does it?  Bad if America does it?

Same with Aluminum.  Since 2008, through government subsidies, the manufacturing capacity of China’s solar-panel industry grew tenfold.  China’s top six solar companies had debt ratios of over 80%. Did you ever work for a company with a debt ratio of 80?  No, because it would be bankrupt.

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## OhOh

> will not respond to you if you continue to use them


For a poster who's introduction was:




> I have an education in economics.


One wonders if you missed out the education subject, "Conversation for Beginners". Many here, for whatever reason, were unable to participate in a "Higher Education". I suspect you may find your attitude somewhat limiting in your discourse here.

AIB


- 

What boastful term is your own choice? "A shining city upon a hill, whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere", "The Leader of the Free World", "The Worlds Strongest Economic Player", "The most powerful military in the world*",* "We the country who bombs countries to the stone-age" ........... So many to choose from.




> OhOh might be taken a little more seriously


Doubtful.




> ...or not...


More likely.




> Name calling is not an adult thing


Seems to work for POTUSE goldilocks.




> if the results are based on the stock exchange results


And if not?




> China was stealing American technology.


Court case citations would be useful. Anything else are ramblings from a dying empire's bought and paid for politicians and media.




> China makes half the world’s steel with the help of heavy government subsidies and other unfair advantages, a new report found.


"Heavy Government" bad, "Government by Tweet" good.  :Smile: 




> Did you ever work for a company with a debt ratio of 80? No, because it would be bankrupt.


I presume then that ameristani's +100% debt ratio, for the past 6 years, can be safely ignored then?



 :smiley laughing: 

It seems ameristan is an unexceptional country, financially. Currently being run by a known. multiple bankrupt, how apt.






> 1. Soybeans show recovery in 2020. 2. There are other markets for soybeans. 3. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1HB11V
> 
> 4. There simply aren’t enough soybeans in the world outside of the U.S. to meet China’s needs


Your posted points:

1. Possibly but not certain. Isn't that what "Futures Markets" are for, to cover ones doubts? How confident are you of the future 2 years hence? Historically and factually, very few of those with an "Education in Economics", successfully predict the future. Are you one of the few who do, can you illustrate your correct, timely, decisions in the area of your competence, Economics?

2. Of course there are, did I suggest otherwise?

3. Your linked opinion post's title is:
*China deploys soybeans in trade war, but may hit own foot*

A phrase some call "weasel words". Words that are inserted so that the writer of his/her opinion post, may select retrospectively, as evidence if his opinion is found to be false.

4. Possibly currently. Are there no areas of the world's land capable of being planted with soya or additional hectares in current producers available if desired? I suggest there are and not solely in ameristan. 

I suppose an imperial diktat, or just a hinted suggestion, could be issued by goldilocks, threatening illegal, secondary, sanctions or bombing back to the stone age, to those countries who disobey his diktat.




> You idiot. You fooking coint. You dingbat. Is this really adult conversation?


Words I don't personally use. Others maybe.




> But having said that I respect any intellectually challenged person


But not enough to hold a conversation with, eh? I too respect others opinions, where they can be supported by proven facts.

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## Neo

> A very valid point and a keystone to the complex issues that face the US economy and, in turn, the World economy.


Global debt has reached a new high of 225% of global GDP, $247 Trillion. 
A level that will likely only ever increase, and which shows how interdependent and fragile the global economy is at this time.

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## OhOh

> i doubt there will be any winner...just losers.


Short term losers yes, long-term a winner will appear. Unfortunately in some societies when the losers are identified they have already been superseded by others and continue their morally bought and paid for, "highso" life, unconcerned. Having been and continuing to be, rewarded with trinkets and kowtowing slaves to keep their inflamed egos intact.

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## Neo

> USA imports from China 506 billion.  China imports from USA 130 billion.  USA can replace all the Chinese imports costs pennies on the dollar.  China can't create a market that will buy 506 billion dollars for the foreseeable future.



I can see on a purely economic perspective that you have a valid point, if you only look at the numbers. 

But, the US imports so many goods from China for good reasons, Chinese goods are affordable, and the environmental impact of the toxic processes used to produce many of them does not impact the consumer, ditto the difficult working conditions required. 

Will Americans be prepared to take on these laborious, low paid and hazardous employment opportunities to produce the low cost items that the domestic consumer market demands?  

It may raise employment and bring money into the local economy, but lifestyle would be impacted, and really, who is going to want to do these jobs, immigrants?  

Clearly then the long term effect of the 'trade war' would be a restructuring of the US domestic market, but given the fractious state of the US this will surely lead to more internal conflict.

----------


## Neo

> Short term losers yes, long-term a winner will appear.


The long term winner will be Authoritarianism.

----------


## mark45y

> I can see on a purely economic perspective that you have a valid point, if you only look at the numbers. 
> 
> But, the US imports so many goods from China for good reasons, Chinese goods are affordable, and the environmental impact of the toxic processes used to produce many of them does not impact the consumer, ditto the difficult working conditions required. 
> 
> Will Americans be prepared to take on these laborious, low paid and hazardous employment opportunities to produce the low cost items that the domestic consumer market demands?  
> 
> It may raise employment and bring money into the local economy, but lifestyle would be impacted, and really, who is going to want to do these jobs, immigrants?  
> 
> Clearly then the long term effect of the 'trade war' would be a restructuring of the US domestic market, but given the fractious state of the US this will surely lead to more internal conflict.


The USA is not in a fractious state.  90% of Republicans have a favorable opinion of Trump.  If you get news from CNN or other fake news sources I can see how you might think the US is fractious but my my family lives in the USA and Canada and there is no fracture only a media war.  Thinking Americans were not fooled by Facebook Russian trolls and are not fooled by CNN.  A guy on here a day or so ago said to watch the S&P 500 average.  It is now at a 5 month high.

----------


## mark45y

> The long term winner will be Authoritarianism.


Right there.  Dump the FBI and get a non political national police force.  Both Trump and Mrs. Clinton really agree on the need for a non partisan FBI.

----------


## Klondyke

> Not hard to figure. USA imports from China 506 billion. China imports from USA 130 billion. USA can replace all the Chinese imports costs pennies on the dollar.  USA exports 2.3 trillion dollars. How important is 130 billion.


Interesting figures.  Is it incl. all the arms supply? Perhaps also to their own bases? (Anyway, wondering how all these figures are registered and how all these summaries are checked - by whom?)




> China can't create a market that will buy 506 billion dollars for the foreseeable future.


How long do you think will it take the Chinese domestic market (popul. 1,4 B) will need all the goods now exporting to USA (popul. 326 M)?

----------


## Neo

> The USA is not in a fractious state.  90% of Republicans have a favorable opinion of Trump.  If you get news from CNN or other fake news sources I can see how you might think the US is fractious but my my family lives in the USA and Canada and there is no fracture only a media war.  Thinking Americans were not fooled by Facebook Russian trolls and are not fooled by CNN.  A guy on here a day or so ago said to watch the S&P 500 average.  It is now at a 5 month high.



Not fractious? Politically both sides may pay homage to the same master, but domestically, socially, the US is polarised on many fronts, economically, ideologically, racially, socially, geographically. It's propensity to turn to violence when faced with opposition, infamous.

A matter of perspective? I think more a case of what you choose as your metric. 

But anyhow, you didn't respond to the point of my post:




> _Will Americans be prepared to take on these laborious, low paid and hazardous employment opportunities to produce the low cost items that the domestic consumer market demands?_ 
> 
> _It may raise employment and bring money into the local economy, but lifestyle would be impacted, and really, who is going to want to do these jobs, immigrants?_

----------


## Neo

> a non political national police force


To arrest the bank fraudsters, the hedge fund manipulators, the drug cartel launderers, the warmongers, as well as the blacks and the demonstrators? 

Non political police force  :Dance:

----------


## bsnub

> The USA is not in a fractious state.


You are clueless. When is the last time you have been back here?




> 90% of Republicans have a favorable opinion of Trump.


Brainwashed lemmings being walked over a cliff by their orange god. 




> Thinking Americans were not fooled by Facebook Russian trolls and are not fooled by CNN.


Thinking Americans did not vote for Trump.

----------


## mark45y

> Not fractious? Politically both sides may pay homage to the same master, but domestically, socially, the US is polarised on many fronts, economically, ideologically, racially, socially, geographically. It's propensity to turn to violence when faced with opposition, infamous.
> 
> A matter of perspective? I think more a case of what you choose as your metric. 
> 
> But anyhow, you didn't respond to the point of my post:


Burma, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam will produce the goods happily and export them to the USA.  As an impartial observer I think there are more racial problems in UK and Euro than the USA.  Violence?  USA?  Try Europe and the Balkans and former USSR.  America is quiet in comparison to the hotbed of conflict Europe.  Google wars in Europe and google wars in North America.

----------


## Neo

Ok, I can see why members here think you're a dick... obviously a nic that you've resurrected having burned your previous ones. 

 :Wave:

----------


## bsnub

> As an impartial observer I think there are more racial problems in UK and Euro than the USA.





> America is quiet in comparison to the hotbed of conflict Europe.


What a fucking moron. Mods can you jail this idiot already?

----------


## OhOh

> I can see on a purely economic perspective that you have a valid point, if you only look at the numbers.


Do the quoted figures include "Services" revenue for both, probably not.

----------


## mark45y

> Ok, I can see why members here think you're a dick... obviously a nic that you've resurrected having burned your previous ones.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._North_America
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...icts_in_Europe

Yes obviously no one has confronted them with the truth very often.

----------


## bsnub

> Yes obviously no one has confronted them with the truth very often.


Jeezus what a fucking moron.

----------


## David48atTD

Soooooo ... back to the Trade War.

Testing the faith of Trump's supporters at the heart of the US-China trade war


Iowa farmer Rick Kimberley (right) says he wants to see the trade war between the US and China resolved

Donald Trump's trade war is on track to cost Iowa's farmers millions of dollars, but many are still backing him — for now.


When  the US slapped $34 billion worth of tariffs on goods from China a week  ago, Beijing immediately retaliated with 
25 per cent tariffs targeting  US agriculture.


It's no coincidence that China's tariffs hit  America's rural farming communities — they are the ones who voted 
Donald  Trump into the White House.

"We're concerned," fifth-generation Iowa farmer Rick Kimberley told the ABC.
The Kimberley corn and soybean farm in Maxwell in central Iowa sprawls 4,000 acres (1,618 hectares).


Rick Kimberley's corn and soybean farm was famously visited by Xi Jinping in 2012.

One third of his soybean crop is destined for export. The soybean  price had already been falling when China imposed its 25 per cent 
import  tax — this week it hit a 10-year low.

"_In short, it is going to impact my income and it's going to impact every farmer's income,_" Mr Kimberley said.
Mr  Kimberley voted for Donald Trump. 
While he does not always like the way  the President goes about governing, when it comes to the trade  imbalance with China he 
believes something must be done.

"I'd say  we're a very loyal and patriotic people out here in the Midwest and so  yes I think we want to see this resolved but I think 
there are issues  that need to be addressed and taken care of so that's what he's doing,"  Mr Kimberley says.


The Kimberleys have a unique connection with  China — now President, Xi Jinping, visited the Kimberley farm in 2012. 
A  photo of Mr Kimberley showing Mr Xi how to drive a John Deere tractor  made the front pages of newspapers in both nations. 


A working  model of the Kimberley's farm is being built in Luanping County in the  hope of transforming farming in the Asian nation.
Mr Kimberley knows as well as any politician what is at stake — for both sides.


"If  this is long-term tariffs, it could be significant. We're hoping that  cooler heads will work together and trade tariffs are not good 
for  anyone — not the United States, not the farmers — but also not China and  Chinese people," he says.

"It's going to cost them more to purchase soybeans and so their food costs are going to go higher."Last  week Donald Trump's Treasury Secretary, Steven Mnuchin, said trade  talks with China had "broken down", which is not a 
good sign for Iowan  farmers gearing up for a September harvest. 


===

I can't link the article due to a Forum software glitch, so, for the rest of the article Google this ... ABC donald-trump-supporters-faith-tested-in-trade-war-with-china

----------


## tomcat

...such are the consequences of voting for an ignorant conman...may this lesson be burned into his skull...

----------


## Switch

His tax cuts are helping small businesses and the fed is blooming, along with rising employment.

A false dawn when China has so many options apart from tariffs?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ndation-widget

----------


## tomcat

> and the fed is blooming


...springtime for bankers!...

----------


## bsnub

> His tax cuts are helping small businesses


Wrong!

http://www.businessinsider.com/small...x-bill-2017-12






> along with rising employment.


Employment has been rising for 92 months straight. It is not because of Trump. 

https://money.cnn.com/2018/04/05/new...ths/index.html

----------


## Neverna

> China was stealing American technology.


That was just a little white lie made up by Trump.

----------


## Switch

> Wrong!
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/small...x-bill-2017-12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Employment has been rising for 92 months straight. It is not because of Trump. 
> ...


Calm down snubs. It just two different opinions is all. I never said rump was responsible just telling it like it is.

He thinks his shit is working but the chinks have the US over a barrel.

----------


## David48atTD

> China was stealing American technology.





> That was just a little white lie made up by Trump.


Actually, nought to do with Trump.

It was generally accepted that an intricate part of Trade Deals where Foreign Companies were 'allowed' to 
set up and trade in China was a transfer or access to the incoming company.




> Compulsory joint ventures in exchange for market access For access to the Chinese market in
> some designated sectors, such as car manufacturing or the manufacture of railway locomotives 
> and rolling stock, foreign companies must enter into joint ventures with Chinese companies.
> 
> Approval to form a joint venture or to operate may depend on the supply of specific technology, 
> including future improvements of this technology.
> 
> In some cases, the partner cannot be freely chosen and may be a competitor or concurrent 
> Joint Venture partner of another competitor.
> ...


Technology transfer to China: Guidance for businesses

Also good ... the FT's China’s push to become a tech superpower triggers alarms abroad

---

Some see this forced technology transfer as Robbery.

----------


## Neverna

> It was generally accepted that an intricate part of Trade Deals where Foreign Companies were 'allowed' to 
> set up and trade in China was a transfer or access to the incoming company.
> 
> Some see this forced technology transfer as Robbery.


But it is not robbery. Those companies chose to accept those terms (as they do in other countries). They did not have to. They could have walked away but they didn't. They willingy gave in order to receive. Only Trump called it "robbery", which it isn't. It was just Trump's little "white lie".

Doesn't Thailand have the same kind of deal?

----------


## SKkin

Lets take a little trip back in time...

https://www.thebalance.com/most-favo...status-3305840




> *China* 
> 
>  The United States gave Most Favored Nation status to China in 2000.  Soon afterward, it helped the country become a WTO member.  U.S.  companies wanted to sell to the largest population in the world. As  China's GDP per capita grew, so would its consumer spending.
> 
> That didn't reap the bonanza U.S. companies had hoped for. First, the  Chinese don't receive Social Security or other entitlement programs. As  a result, they frantically save each and every penny to have enough for  their old age.
> 
> Second, the Chinese government does not allow companies to sell  products to its people without paying a price. To gain entry to China's  market, exporters must build plants and hire Chinese workers. That  grants Chinese companies knowledge of how the products are made. As a  result, there are often cheap local knock-offs of the products. The U.S.  company can't compete, and eventually packs up and goes home.

----------


## uncle junior

> Lets take a little trip back in time...

----------


## David48atTD

> But it is not robbery. Those companies chose to accept those terms (as they do in other countries). They did not have to. They could have walked away but they didn't. They willingy gave in order to receive. Only Trump called it "robbery", which it isn't. It was just Trump's little "white lie".
> 
> Doesn't Thailand have the same kind of deal?


Fair comment.

About doing tech business in Thailand, I have no idea.

Anyone know?

----------


## SKkin

> China was stealing American technology.


No, we were giving it to them...whole factories included in some cases.

----------


## Neverna

> About doing tech business in Thailand, I have no idea.
> 
> Anyone know?


Foreign investors in Thailand, who will be investing a majority of the capital in a business venture, have the option of applying for a Foreign Business License if the intended business is restricted under the Foreign Business Act of 1999. However, in order for the application to be approved, an important requirement is that the applicant must offer a technology transfer plan. The requirement of a technology transfer plan often serves as a source of confusion or a stumbling block for some investors who are uncertain as to what exactly is included by the word “technology” and what exactly the plan must entail. To begin with, a brief introduction to the technology transfer plan is as follows.

Section 5 of the Foreign Business Act states that the granting of a license to a foreigner to operate a business restricted by the act must take into consideration the transfer of technology. Therefore, the Foreign Business Committee requires applicants to prepare a technology transfer certificate which must be submitted along with the rest of the application.


More at the link:  https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-...transfer-plan/

----------


## OhOh

> Burma, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam will produce the goods happily and export them to the USA.


Who do you think own the companies in your stated alternative countries. I suspect a good % are Chinese. If a Chinese or other nations companies can produce goods in a second country and make a larger profit, all will do it. Especially if it then allows the parent company to invest more and move up the "value add" chain. Some managements of course either pocket the profit them selves, buy back shares from the market, "increase" their share price and pay themselves increased bonuses whilst the going is good. The politicians who voted for the legislation are rewarded with increased "political donations".

Always understand the contracts you sign or agree too.

^ 
As "requested" by many countries prior to signing purchases of many products. Sometimes accepted by the supplier of the goods, services or IP/knowledge transfer, in full, partial or refused. Skilful negotiations or greed, by both parties, defines the outcome.

But as some say here, factually, not stolen.

----------


## cisco999

an impressive dick then

----------


## mark45y

Prosecutors said Sinovel, now China’s largest wind turbine manufacturer,  contracted with a former AMSC employee in Austria to steal the code in  2011, and then refused to pay the U.S. firm for $800 million in products  and services it had promised to buy. The software system, called Low  Voltage Ride Through, or LVRT, was designed to help regulate the flow of  electricity into a power grid.

They stole it.
The case was brought under the Obama administration in 2013 by a special intellectual property task force.  

The Sinovel case is particularly striking as "an example of the  tremendous harm that can be done to a U.S. company by virtue of the  theft of its trade secrets overseas

----------


## Chico

Well its good to see the ecomoronic experts on TD,have once again astounded the financial experts around the world,about China dumping US securities. :Smile:

----------


## mark45y

> Well its good to see the ecomoronic experts on TD,have once again astounded the financial experts around the world,about China dumping US securities.


I'm an expert.   China won't dump  its $1.18 trillion of U.S. government bonds.  I'd send you a bill but it's common knowledge.

----------


## Chico

Mark did I mention your name,I was referring to the other crew.

----------


## OhOh

> Prosecutors said Sinovel,


*American Superconductor: Where To Now?*

Jul. 11, 2018  5:19 AM ET


_The Sinovel settlement of $58M is disappointing, but the commercial prospects of the grid segment remain unchanged.

The stock price drop from the Sinovel settlement announcement offers a good opportunity to invest.

The big recent news is of course the Sinovel Settlement. After market close on July 3, American Superconductor (NASDAQ:AMSC)  announced that a settlement had been reached with Chinese wind giant  Sinovel Wind Group. The aggregate cash settlement amount of $58M will be  paid by Sinovel in an up-front installment of $33M (already received),  and a $25M installment within 10 months. In exchange, the settlement  agreement grants Sinovel a non-exclusive license for certain AMSC  intellectual property to be used solely in Sinovel’s doubly fed wind  turbines. But no further compensation to AMSC is mentioned in the  agreement.

The market expected much more and everyone will agree that this  settlement is underwhelming – to say the least. To wit, over the next  few trading days, the stock lost about 25% of its value, going from  $7.06/share at close on July 3 to $5.22/share at close on July 9.  Investors were clearly disappointed.

Several years ago, AMSCs market cap was well over $1B

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4186516-american-superconductor-now

_
Some time ago, US$400 per share 2010, the company was worth US$1B, now US$5 per share worth US$107M. Largest drop Oct 2011 to US$50 then slow dribble downwards.

*Court Imposes Sentence on Sinovel For Theft of AMSC Trade Secrets*

_"AYER, Mass., July 09, 2018 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- AMSC (Nasdaq:AMSC), a global
energy solutions provider serving wind and power grid industry leaders,
announced that Judge James D.  Peterson of the U. S. District Court for the
Western District of Wisconsin sentenced Sinovel Wind Group Co. Ltd. (Sinovel)
in connection with Sinovel’s theft of AMSC’s trade secrets.  Sinovel was
convicted of conspiracy to commit trade secret theft, theft of trade secrets,
and wire fraud on January 24, 2018 following an 11-day jury trial in Madison,
Wisconsin.

Judge Peterson found that AMSC’s losses from the theft exceeded $550 million,
and imposed the maximum statutory fine of $1.5 million on Sinovel.  He also
sentenced Sinovel to one year of probation, during which Sinovel must pay the
unpaid balance that Sinovel agreed to pay to AMSC pursuant to the terms of the
settlement agreement entered into by the parties and announced on July 3,
2018.  

Under the terms of the settlement agreement, Sinovel agreed to pay AMSC’s
wholly-owned Chinese subsidiary, Suzhou AMSC Superconductor Co. Ltd., an
aggregate cash amount in Renminbi (RMB) equivalent to $57.5 million,
consisting of two installments.  Sinovel paid the first installment of $32.5
million on July 4, 2018, and has agreed to pay the second installment of $25
million within ten (10) months after the U.S. District Court for the Western
District of Wisconsin delivers the first sentence against Sinovel. As a result
of Judge Peterson delivering such sentence on July 6, 2018, the second
installment of $25 million is due by May 6, 2019. Sinovel will also pay
$850,000 to additional victims within its year of probation."_

https://www.bloomberg.com/press-rele...-trade-secrets

The CNY7 billion Chinese company which produces wind turbine generators pays US$57 million in settlement of all claims and receives a non-exclusive license for certain AMSC intellectual property to be used solely in Sinovel’s doubly fed wind turbines.

The ameristani court fines the company and the two companies sign a closing agreement which includes a financial payment licences to certain IP.

Seems straight forward. A foreign company is taken to court in a foreign country and loses it's court case. An agreement is signed and one company receives money for it's IP. The company receiving the money's share price drops. 

It seems the market has shown their opinion of the agreement.

Case closed. Or is it unusual for IP disputes to be finalised?

----------


## OhOh

> No, we were giving it to them...whole factories included in some cases.


I'm sure a contract or two were signed and exchanges. But if in the Chinese language and to be decided in Chinese courts, some might deduce they were worthless. :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

> I'm an expert. China won't dump its $1.18 trillion of U.S. government bonds. I'd send you a bill but it's common knowledge.


Copied for posterity.

Does China have any bonds to dump? Who has these government bonds in their hands, China or ameristani banks as "collateral" for loans delivered and invested elsewhere by China?

Care to reveal your sources of the "common knowledge"? Or do you charge for proof of your statements?

----------


## mark45y

> Copied for posterity.
> 
> Does China have any bonds to dump? Who has these government bonds in their hands, China or ameristani banks as "collateral" for loans delivered and invested elsewhere by China?
> 
> Care to reveal your sources of the "common knowledge"? Or do you charge for proof of your statements?


Besides the tinfoil hat brigade is there any financial sites you trust?  Bloomberg?  CBS news?  Google 
*Why China won't dump its huge U.S. Treasury bond hoard.*

You are a bit too whacko for me.   I would imagine India is more to your liking.  Try India’s likely purchase of US treasuries second highest in a years.

----------


## OhOh

> Try India’s likely purchase of US treasuries


If that's the quality of your links/sources, no thanks.

----------


## mark45y

> If that's the quality of your links/sources, no thanks.


Ya, Bloomberg and CBS news are really shaky.  You didn't read what I posted.  I tried but you must be another Morris troll.  Go your own way fella.  

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-w...reasury-bonds/

----------


## Switch

Self declared expert posting free economic advice on TD.

Another fail for the newbie.

----------


## bsnub

> I'm an expert.


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## misskit

*Min of Commerce says US-China trade war likely to benefit Thailand*BANGKOK, 17th July 2018 (NNT)-The Ministry of Commerce is keeping an eye on the trade war between the United States and China in order to protect the Thai export sector. 

Commerce officials have been weighing up the pros and cons of the ongoing trade war between the two powerful nations, with members of the private sector since it began. 

They discovered that the trade war is likely to do more good than harm to the export sector as it has given Thailand an opportunity to promote exports of certain goods to America and China, in place of those facing higher tariffs. 

Thailand can export more seafood, fruit and meat to China as it will cost the country more to import from America. Despite a positive outlook, the Ministry of Commerce will continue to monitor the trade war closely to mitigate any impact on Thailand's export sector. 

As for this year’s export growth, the Ministry of Commerce is set to raise the previous projection of 8% given current supporting factors. The new growth forecast will be released next month. 


National News Bureau Of Thailand | Min of Commerce says US-China trade war likely to benefit Thailand

----------


## misskit

*Min of Commerce says US-China trade war likely to benefit Thailand*BANGKOK, 17th July 2018 (NNT)-The Ministry of Commerce is keeping an eye on the trade war between the United States and China in order to protect the Thai export sector. 

Commerce officials have been weighing up the pros and cons of the ongoing trade war between the two powerful nations, with members of the private sector since it began. 

They discovered that the trade war is likely to do more good than harm to the export sector as it has given Thailand an opportunity to promote exports of certain goods to America and China, in place of those facing higher tariffs. 

Thailand can export more seafood, fruit and meat to China as it will cost the country more to import from America. Despite a positive outlook, the Ministry of Commerce will continue to monitor the trade war closely to mitigate any impact on Thailand's export sector. 

As for this years export growth, the Ministry of Commerce is set to raise the previous projection of 8% given current supporting factors. The new growth forecast will be released next month. 


National News Bureau Of Thailand | Min of Commerce says US-China trade war likely to benefit Thailand

----------


## OhOh

*Half of China's total trade to be settled in yuan by 2020 - HSBC CEO
*
_HONG KONG (Reuters) - Cross-border trade settlement denominated in  Chinas yuan currency is expected to climb to over 50 percent of Chinas  total trade by 2020, more than doubling the current level, Stuart  Gulliver, HSBCs Group Chief Executive, said on Thursday. 

A scheme launched in 2009 and initially in five Chinese cities to  encourage cross-border trade settlement in yuan rather than U.S. dollars  has seen rapid growth in the past few years, with yuan settlement of  trade debts rising from 1 percent of transactions in 2010 to 22 percent  last year._ 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-china-yuan-offshore/half-of-chinas-total-trade-to-be-settled-in-yuan-by-2020-hsbc-ceo-idUKKBN0MM0EL20150326



*China overtakes US in world trade
*
_China has become the world's biggest trading nation in goods, ending the post-war dominance of the US, according to official figures.
 China's customs administration said the combined total for imports  and exports in Chinese goods reached $3.87tn (£2.4tn) in 2012, edging  past the $3.82tn trade in goods registed by the US commerce department.

 The landmark total for Chinese trade indicates the extent of  Beijing's dependence on the rest of the world to generate jobs and  income compared with a US economy that remains twice the size, and more  self-contained. The US economy is worth $15tn compared with the $7.3tn  Chinese economy.
 The US not only has a large internal market for goods, but also  dominates the trade in services. US total trade amounted to $4.93tn in  2012, according to the US Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) with a  surplus of $195.3bn
.
 But like most western nations, the US deficit in the trade of goods weighs heavily and is only expected to get larger.
 The deficit in goods was more than $700bn compared with China's 2012 trade surplus, measured in goods, which totalled $231.1bn.

 Jim O'Neill, head of asset management at Goldman Sachs, said the huge  market for western goods would disrupt regional trading blocs as China  becomes the most important commercial partner for some countries.  Germany may export twice as much to China by the end of the decade as it  does to France, he told Bloomberg.

 "For so many countries around the world, China is becoming rapidly  the most important bilateral trade partner," he said. "At this kind of  pace by the end of the decade many European countries will be doing more  individual trade with China than with bilateral partners in Europe."_

https://www.theguardian.com/business...trading-nation



These might knock a hole in the ameristani services trade due to less US$ demand.

----------


## jabir

Ho hum, looks like another war, but this time the other side can fight back.

----------


## uncle junior

and Japan and EU just made the largest free trade zone...

----------


## Neo



----------


## OhOh

> Ho hum, looks like another war,


Hopefully it remains a financial battle ground.




> and Japan and EU just made the largest free trade zone...


Hopefully the two signatories are equally happy with the deal and will both prosper.

----------


## OhOh

*'Made in America': Trump to Showcase US-Made Goods Amid Growing Global Trade Row*

_US President  Donald Trump will host an exhibition showcasing US-made products from  all of the country's 50 states at the White House on Monday, The Hill  reported.
_

_According  to the media outlet, Trump will highlight the features of the American  goods and their manufacturers from across the country. Vice President  Mike Pence along with several other senior administration officials will  stop by the event throughout the day.

"It's an opportunity to showcase products that are made here in America  and invite companies from each state to the White House to display  [them]," White House Deputy Press Secretary Lindsay Walters was quoted  as saying by The Hill.

Goods at the exhibition will reportedly include wool yarns from Maine, boots from Texas, stoves from Idaho and much more.
_
_Over recent weeks, Trump has slapped billions of dollars in tariffs  on China and EU countries, citing national security concerns. Some US  manufacturers are anticipating enormous losses due to retaliatory  measures from those entities that have been targeted.
_
_According to The Hill, some US producers have already moved their operations overseas._

https://sputniknews.com/us/201807231066597572-usa-trump-goods-showcase-trade-war/

It will be interesting to see the goods and services on display at this showcase event. 

The photo shows and empty basket. But then the source is Russian.

----------


## tomcat

...RT:... :rofl: ...

----------


## uncle junior

Russiastan agitprop

----------


## OhOh

> ...RT:......


RT gives the credit to The Hill, 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...mid-trade-rows


which allegedly is:

_"an American political newspaper and website published in Washington, D.C. since 1994.[3][4]  It is published by Capitol Hill Publishing, which is owned by News  Communications, Inc. Focusing on politics, policy, business and  international relations, The Hill coverage includes the U.S. Congress, the presidency, and election campaigns.[5] The paper was founded in 1994 and was published by New York businessman Yehuda Finkelstein. The paper is currently owned by his son Jimmy Finkelstein, who serves as its chairman.[6] Bob Cusack currently serves as the editor-in-chief, Johanna Derlega as the publisher, and Ian Swanson as managing editor.[3] "_

But you keep your blinkers firmly on, giddy-up

----------


## OhOh

*Germany tells India to ignore ‘irritating’ US pressure & keep buying Iranian crude* 


_"India and Iran are good partners in the oil trade despite Washington’s  discontent, and they should continue cooperating if they so wish,  Germany’s Minister of State for Foreign affairs Niels Annen said on a  visit to New Delhi. 

I am not a salesman for Iran but I have an impression that India  is willing to continue buying oil from Iran and this will be a very  important statement,” Annen told Indian media, as quoted by Sputnik news agency. He said the US attempts to force its allies to join new anti-Iranian sanctions are "irritating, to put it mildly."

__India,  which is dependent on crude imports, is Iran’s top oil client after  China. Despite this, India bought 15.9 percent less crude from Iran in  June compared to May. After that, Iran threatened that it would suspend  all privileges in bilateral trade with India, including payments in  rupees._
_Last week, Reuters reported that India’s  Oil Ministry has asked refiners to prepare for a “drastic reduction or  zero” imports of Iranian oil from November, when US sanctions against  Iran start.
_
_“(India) has asked refiners to be prepared for any  eventuality, since the situation is still evolving. There could be  drastic reduction or there could be no imports at all,” Reuters wrote quoting its sources.
_
_While  India doesn’t recognize unilateral US sanctions against Iran, the  country is exposed to the US financial system and could get caught in  the crossfire. Washington could target Indian companies and banks that  do business with Iran."
_
https://www.rt.com/business/434072-us-sanctions-india-oil-iran/



*Trade war chickens home to roost: Billions of pounds of meat fill US warehouses with nowhere to go*

_          "More than 2.5 billion pounds of meat and poultry produced by US  farmers have been stockpiled in cold-storage warehouses with the amount  expected to grow further, according to the latest federal data.      

_
_Record production of beef,  pork, poultry and turkey has become increasingly dependent on exports  as US consumers cannot buy up the huge amount of meat. That would drive  down prices for American consumers, restaurants and retailers. However,  the recent import tariffs imposed by the country’s trade partners on the  wide range of US goods, including agricultural produce, have slowed  down sales of US meat and poultry abroad

__Earlier this year, China and Mexico, the largest foreign buyers of US  meat, taxed American pork products in response to the tariffs imposed  by the White House on steel, aluminum and some other goods. The measure  made prices for US hams, chops and livers in those markets shoot  upwards, reports Wall Street Journal.
_
_“We’ve got too much capacity built in this industry if we’re not going to be exporting more product,” Ken Maschhoff, the chairman of Illinois-based hog-farming company Maschhoffs, told the media.

__The businessman stresses that the company was considering expansion into less “geopolitically charged”  regions, such as Eastern Europe or South America. The US Department of  Agriculture expects the US meat industry to produce a record 102.7  billion pounds of meat in 2018. Plunging exports along with increasing  domestic stockpiles puts at risk profits for the US meat processors as  well as prices for livestock and poultry producers. Lean hog futures at  the Chicago Mercantile Exchange have reportedly dropped 14 percent since  the end of May.
_
_Trade risks and increasing meat supplies may lead to “one of the biggest corrections we’ve seen in the industry in several years,” said Christine McCracken, protein analyst at Rabobank, as quoted by the media._

https://www.rt.com/business/434032-u...-slow-exports/

----------


## OhOh

*Trade war causing a real impact on US economy* 


_"US President Donald Trump announced Tuesday that the US Department of  Agriculture will adopt a $12 billion emergency plan to aid farmers hurt  by the trade war. It is considered a clear signal that the trade war is  causing a real impact on the US economy as well as an avowal by Trump to  deploy tariffs as a weapon of trade war. 

This is a funny scene.  The US is not suffering natural disasters. American farmers should have  made money expanding their markets. But they are now being aided. No  one knows how long this peculiar "disaster" will last. Many US famers  must be at a loss over their future livelihoods. 

With the  escalation of the trade war, more industries will be affected. It will  be difficult to decide who will receive subsidies and who will not.  Trump's administration is disrupting the basic logic of economic life.  By causing trouble for China, the EU, Mexico and Canada, it is plunging  the US domestic economy in chaos. 

Other countries including  China will of course be forced to face the impact of the trade war. They  will also carry out assistance activities to affected industries and  companies. The White House is hoping that Beijing will make a major  concession to Washington when it can no longer stand the escalating  damages. 

Such wishful thinking is too naïve. Trump believes that  US society can endure the agony of a temporary trade war for long-term  interests. Then why would he be certain that China cannot bear the same  pain? 

The vast majority of Chinese people are well aware that  China has been confronted by the US with a trade war. No matter how  reluctant the nation is to fight, it has no alternative. But US society  knows that the trade war was launched by the White House and the ball is  in the US court to stop it or find a wiser option. The Trump  administration needs to prove that it is correct to bring its people  anguish through the trade war, while other nations do not need to do  anything more than retaliate.

China has experienced numerous  difficulties and challenges. Its development in the past 20 years has  been relatively smooth, but its mechanism remains to deal with major  obstacles. The nation once faced massive layoffs among its State-owned  enterprises and collective economic sanctions from the West. How could  the difficulties of a trade war be insurmountable?

Washington has  always accused Europe and China of agriculture subsidies. As a matter  of fact, the US itself has long offered subsidies to its farmers, and  now it has announced increased subsidies. It seems that the  international discourse around the rules will be changed. 

Some believe that Trump will hold onto his mistakes before the mid-term election in November, so as to maintain support. 

But  the Chinese people are looking beyond November. They are preparing to  fight in the long run. Perhaps only with such a massive trade war can  Washington rethink the value of Sino-US cooperation."_

Is the leader of the ameristani democratically elected government actually, publicly, buying votes and trying to bribe the voters, prior to the scheduled 2018 November elections? Surely not.

----------


## OhOh

*Commentary: US Section 232 challenges WTO rules*


_"The US launched five separate WTO dispute actions on Monday challenging  the countermeasures taken by China, EU, Canada, Mexico, and Turkey  following US tariffs on steel and aluminum. The US claimed that its new  tariffs are meant to protect national security and fight unfair trade  practices._ _     From the perspective of the US, the retaliatory measures by the five  countries are in violation of WTO rules. But what about the Section 232  steel and aluminum tariffs by the US? This section in fact puts domestic  law above international trade rules and is responsible for the trade  war.
_
_     Trump has repeatedly suggested pulling the US out of the WTO, according  to US media. The WTO, previously known as the General Agreement on  Tariffs and Trade (GATT), was originally an important part of the global  economic system set up by the US after World War II. It was an  international agreement led by major developed countries, including the  US and countries in Europe, with the aim of fighting trade protectionism  and regulating and promoting international trade.
_
_     Then why is the US so eager to get rid of the well-regulated system and  the international trade agreement that was once dominated by it alone?  Is the WTO changing or is the US changing?
_
_     The WTO has not changed albeit improvements designed to enhance its  functions. What has really changed is the US, which is steadily moving  in the opposite direction of the system it has built._
_     In the era of globalization, emerging economies are rising rapidly, and  the global trading system, logistics, supply chains, and production  chains have undergone profound changes. Emerging economies have  benefited a lot, and the US and other developed countries have reaped  huge benefits as well. However, relatively speaking, the US control over  the global trade chains, production chains, and value chains is not as  powerful as in the past.
_
_     According to Joseph Nye, an American political scientist, the US intense agitation reveals the decline of American hegemony._
_     The best way of responding to trade bullying is to uphold the  multilateral rule-based trading system of the WTO and defend its  dignity. This is the basic responsibility of each member. International  economic and trade disputes must be resolved by WTO rules.
_
_     Since China’s entry into the WTO in 2001, China has strictly fulfilled  its commitments and has made tremendous contributions to global trade  and economic development through its own development. The US accusation  against China is groundless and will not shake China’s determination to  promote reform and opening-up and to firmly uphold the principles of the  WTO. China will never make any concessions on the major issues  concerning the rules of international trade."

Commentary: US Section 232 challenges WTO rules - People's Daily Online_

National security or ameristani politicians bank balances/election expenses?

----------


## OhOh

*U.S. Senate Quietly Votes to Cut Tariffs on Hundreds of Chinese Goods*

By Reuters
July 27, 2018


_WASHINGTON  — As trade tensions escalate between Washington and Beijing, the U.S.  Senate quietly passed legislation on Thursday that would lower trade  barriers on hundreds of items made in China.
_
_With  no debate, the Senate unanimously passed a bill that would cut or  eliminate tariffs on toasters, chemicals and roughly 1,660 other items  made outside the United States.
_
_Nearly half of those items are produced in China, according to a Reuters analysis of government records.
_
_The United States and China, the world's two largest economies, are increasingly at loggerheads over trade. 
_
_U.S.  President Donald Trump has announced a series of punitive tariffs on  Chinese imports in a bid to halt a Chinese surge in high-technology  industries that threatens to displace U.S. dominance. China has  retaliated with its own duties on imports from the United States.
_
_The  White House has not publicly taken a position on the so-called  miscellaneous tariff bill, which has now passed both the Senate and the  House of Representatives unanimously. The two chambers need to resolve  minor differences before they can send the legislation to Trump to sign  into law.
_
_Supporters  of the bill have said it would boost the economy by getting rid of  tariffs set up to protect industries that no longer exist in the United  States. The National Association of Manufacturers has said U.S.  businesses pay $1 million a day on such import duties.
_
_"It  makes no sense because it is a direct and punishing tax on making  things in America and for creating jobs in America," the trade group's  president, Jay Timmons, said in a prepared statement celebrating the  bill's passage._ 
_Among the beneficiaries are companies that have moved production offshore._ 
_Hamilton  Beach Brands Holding Co, for example, would pay reduced tariffs on  Chinese-made toaster ovens, steam irons and other household appliances  it used to make domestically.

__Some  domestic manufacturers have complained the bill would undercut their  business by making it easier for rivals to bring in cheap foreign goods.  They said the bill punished smaller firms that lack the ability to  defend their interests in Washington._ 
_The  version of the bill that passed the House in January included 145 items  that are made domestically, according to a Reuters analysis.  [L2N1QN00P]_
_"There's no reason to  block opportunity U.S. manufacturers might have for rebuilding our  manufacturing base," Michael Korchmar, the head of a family-owned travel  goods company in Florida, said in a phone interview earlier this month.
_
_Korchmar  earlier this year planned to hire up to 30 workers in his Naples,  Florida, factory, but he put those plans on hold after being told by  Reuters that the bill would lower tariffs on an insulated food bag that  he planned to produce._ 
_Korchmar said  he may yet decide to expand production, because Democratic Senator Bill  Nelson removed that item from the bill after Reuters wrote about it in  March.
_
_"We've got a good shot - we've lost a good bit of time and we have to re-evaluate the market," Korchmar said.
_
_ (Reporting by Andy Sullivan; Editing by Peter Cooney)"_

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/07/27/business/27reuters-usa-congress-trade.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fr  euters-business


https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr4318

----------


## HuangLao

> *U.S. Senate Quietly Votes to Cut Tariffs on Hundreds of Chinese Goods*
> 
> By Reuters
> July 27, 2018
> _WASHINGTON  — As trade tensions escalate between Washington and Beijing, the U.S.  Senate quietly passed legislation on Thursday that would lower trade  barriers on hundreds of items made in China.
> _
> _With  no debate, the Senate unanimously passed a bill that would cut or  eliminate tariffs on toasters, chemicals and roughly 1,660 other items  made outside the United States.
> _
> _Nearly half of those items are produced in China, according to a Reuters analysis of government records.
> ...




Well.....this is an interesting tidbit. 

America doesn't stand a chance -

----------


## Hugh Cow

Should the headline not read. T*he US MAY POTENTIALY cut tariffs on hundreds of goods,* *a minority of which are made in China,** providing the President agrees . 
*Once again You have overcooked a headline which, unfortunately detracts from what little reputation of being unbiased that you have left. In your haste to give an alternative view from what you percieve (and in many cases are correct) as western media bias you have become guilty of the same thing. If you wish your alternative news to be at all respected as independent and unbiased you need to first be so yourself.

----------


## OhOh

> Should the headline not read. The US MAY POTENTIALY cut tariffs on hundreds of goods, a minority of which are made in China, providing the President agrees .


The headline states 




> *U.S. Senate* Quietly *Votes* to *Cut Tariffs* on* Hundreds of Chinese Goods*


Are you suggesting it is fake news?

Are you suggesting that goldilocks will ignore the will of the elected peoples representatives? Possibly the politicians vote to influence the ameristani stock exchanges, pocket a few Yuan, reverse the news tomorrow and repeat ad-infinitum. After all what else is the purpose of being elected except to fill ones bank account.

As for the being premature when posting ameristani news I disagree. ameristani news is valid for a very short time. 

As you are aware, or should be, by today some new news will suggest the previous announcement was misspoken or has been denied/surpased by another headline uttered from yet another alleged ameristani appointed official.

I suspect though forcing the ameristani elected officials to repeatedly/or continue passing new laws, which reverse yesterdays laws, would be a step too far and hopefully some would notice. But being a watcher of ameristani and other western counties civilians I wouldn't count on it. 

What is apparent is ameristan has competing power centres which vie for monetary gain exclusively, both being bought and paid for lackeys.



Do as we ask or in you go, boy/girl.

----------


## SKkin

> If you wish your alternative news





> https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/07/27/business/27reuters-usa-congress-trade.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fr euters-business


The NYT is alternative news? Wow!

All the News We See Fit To Print...

----------


## OhOh

> If you wish your alternative news


I suspect this is a government website, but maybe it's fake:




> https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr4318


But their Contact Page "Our Charter" explanation seems so honest:

*"Our Charter
*

_1. GovTrack.us’s mission is to help Americans participate in their government.
_

_a. We make information about the United States Congress accessible, understandable, and actionable for public use.
_
_b. We do this by putting the information in context, tracking new  developments on issues our users care about, and helping our users take  action to make a meaningful difference.
_
_c. We actively seek out any information relevant to our mission and new ways to analyze and explain that information.
_
_d. GovTrack.us and the information we publish will always be free to view, use, and share by anyone._ 
_2. We are committed to integrity.
_

_a. We know that government decisions have grave consequences, and so we carry out our work respectfully and responsibly.
_
_b. We never misrepresent or exclude information to favor one side. We  never side for or against any policy, politician, or organization —  except policies that further our mission as described in this charter._
_c. We do not accept grants from partisan organizations. Our  advertising space is made available to all advertisers without regard to  political views._ 
_3. We are committed to democracy._

_a. We believe that transparency and education are crucial for achieving equity in rights and representation for all Americans._
_b. We believe that the best outcomes can be achieved not only with an  informed public but also with a Congress that has the capacity to make  informed decisions.
_
_d. We love the legislative branch (i.e., Congress). That’s why we think about it so much."_ 




I did have a concern that the NYT had been hacked because I can't find the report on the Reuters site.  :Smile: 




> U.S. Senate Quietly Votes to Cut Tariffs on Hundreds of Chinese Goods
> 
> By Reuters
> July 27, 2018


Link found;

https://in.reuters.com/article/usa-c...-idINKBN1KG361

Don't worry, by tomorrow the "old news" will be adjusted. They have whole departments for that task. See 1984.

----------


## cisco999

i'm cornering the market on beans and rice

----------


## SKkin

> Don't worry, by tomorrow the "old news" will be adjusted. They have whole departments for that task. See 1984.


MiniTru

----------


## Hugh Cow

Repeating a headline that was sensationalised to get a few more hits when you have read the whole story just because it suits your political agenda only proves you have biased analytical skills and this is why I cannot take your comments seriously or as written. Correction on your point. I should have said your alternative viewpoint, not news. In short, your critical analysis of a headline that suits your political agenda is either extremely poor or purely used as self serving propaganda. Which gives you 00 credibility.

----------


## OhOh

^Thank you for your comments.





> Should the headline not read. The US MAY  POTENTIALY cut tariffs on hundreds of goods, a minority of which are  made in China, providing the President agrees .
> 
> Once again You have overcooked a headline





> The headline states
> 
> Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
> U.S. Senate Quietly Votes to Cut Tariffs on Hundreds of Chinese Goods





> Repeating a headline


Repeating a factually correct headline.

----------


## OhOh

*China is not America’s scapegoat, says Chinese WTO envoy*




_"__Ambassador Zhang Xiangchen, China’s permanent representative to the WTO  and Ambassador Dennis Shea, the US permanent representative to the WTO,  exchanged views just before the meeting. (File photo)

__     Geneva (People’s Daily) - The General Council of the World Trade  Organization commenced its third meeting of the year in Geneva on  Thursday. The US permanent representative to the WTO, Ambassador Dennis  Shea, criticized China’s economic model on the basis of documents  submitted by the US before the meeting. Ambassador Zhang Xiangchen,  China’s permanent representative to the WTO, responded comprehensively  and resolutely refuted the accusations.
_
_     The General Council is the WTO’s highest-level decision-making body in  Geneva, meeting regularly to carry out the functions of the WTO. It has  representatives (usually ambassadors or equivalent) from all member  governments and has the authority to act on behalf of the ministerial  conference which meets roughly every two years.
_
_     The two-day general council meeting has a total of 10 items on the  agenda, the sixth of which is to discuss a paper entitled “China’s  trade-disruptive economic model,” submitted to the WTO by the US before  the meeting. In a speech at the meeting Shea elaborated on the paper,  saying, "In the paper that we submitted for today’s meeting, we focus on  China’s economic model, which has proven to be particularly trade  disruptive.”
_
_     In a subsequent half-hour speech, Zhang not only responded to the  remarks of the US representative, but also made a legal evaluation of  the US paper. He said in his remarks, Dennis referred to the “non-market  nature of China’s economy.” Zhang said, “However, we can't find the  definition of ‘market economy’ throughout the WTO rule book. There is no  one-size-fits-all ‘market economy’ standard in the world. The WTO rules  never authorize any member to use its own economic model as the  template of a ‘market economy’, and to accuse any other member who would  not copy it as a ‘non-market economy’.”
_
_      “If there is any relevance in the topic of ‘non-market economy’, it  reminds us once again that there are certain members, including the US,  who, disregarding the WTO rules and their own commitments, are still  using the notorious ‘surrogate country’ methodology in anti-dumping  investigations according to the ‘market economy’ standards of their  domestic laws. I would like to take this opportunity to urge these  members once again, ‘pacta sunt servanda’. Please honor your commitments  17 years ago,” China’s envoy said"

__     “If a paper has flaws in its footnotes, then its evidence may be called  into question and its arguments will be put into doubt. Paragraph 1.3  of the paper says that China limits the power of the market and cites in  its footnote China’s Property Law as a source. But the fact is that the  Property Law clearly says that China ‘encourages, supports and guides  the development of the non-public economy.’ In the eyes of the US, the  very words ‘encourage, support and guide’ could be misread as ‘suppress,  limit and intervene’.”
_
_     Section 3A of the paper refers to the “non-reciprocal and protected  market” of China. But one particularity about this section is that it  has not a single footnote. “I presume it is difficult to find evidence  that can support this argument. However, if we reverse the argument, we  can find plenty of evidence. Let me just offer some,” Zhang said. “In  2017, China’s contribution to the growth of the world economy was 34  percent. China is the largest trading partner for over 120 countries and  regions. There is plenty more evidence in the white paper on China and  the World Trade Organization that China recently submitted to the  General Council in the document 19WT/GC/W/749.”
_
_     “The 2013 Report to Congress of the US-China Economic and Security  Review Commission co-signed by Ambassador Shea stated that ‘growing  demand from China has supported American exports in certain sectors of  the US economy, such as aerospace, the auto industry and agricultural  products’. If China had been a ‘non-reciprocal and protected market’,  how did those US products enter the Chinese market?” asked Zhang. 
_
_     “The United States is demonizing China and attacking its economic model  to divert attention from itself, but China will never bow to US efforts  to tie its hands with a new set of trade rules,” Zhang said to the  People’s Daily. “At the present moment, the paramount task for the WTO  is to curb the spread of unilateralism and protectionism, to bring the  dispute settlement mechanism to its full function and to stop the trade  war. We should not waste our time finding scapegoats or look away from  these fundamental challenges. China is not America’s scapegoat.”

http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/0730/c90000-9486002.html_

----------


## SKkin

> China is not America’s scapegoat


The scapegoat du jour is Russia.  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

*Factbox - Impact of U.S.-China trade tariffs on U.S. companies*


(Reuters) - U.S. companies are putting in place measures to cushion  the impact of escalating trade tensions between the United States and  China. 
The worlds two largest economies have already imposed tariffs on $34 billion worth of each others imports. 

In  his latest threat to the Asian nation, U.S. President Donald Trump has  said he was ready to impose tariffs on all $500 billion worth of Chinese  imports. 

The following is a list of recent comments made by U.S. companies: 

** Caterpillar Inc (CAT.N)  said U.S. tariffs on Chinese imports are expected to increase its  material costs by about $100 million to $200 million in the second half  of the year. The heavy machinery maker plans to offset most of the  higher costs with mid-year price hikes. 

** General Electric Co (GE.N)  estimated that new tariffs on its imports from China could raise its  costs by $300 million to $400 million overall, before steps to lessen  the impact. 

** Detroit automakers General Motors Co (GM.N), Ford Motor Co (F.N) and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV (FCHA.MI) (FCAU.N) lowered their full-year profit forecasts due to escalating tariffs.     

** Boeing Co (BA.N)  is concerned about the impact of possible trade tariffs on the cost of  running its supply chain, but has not yet seen any impact from  U.S.-Chinese trade tensions on its business, Chief Executive Officer  Dennis Muilenburg said. 

** U.S. industrial conglomerate Honeywell International Inc (HON.N)  said it would increase the use of supply chain sources from non-China  countries to counter growing costs related to a tariff war between the  worlds two largest economies. 

** Home furnishings chain At Home Group Inc (HOME.N)  said it would make adjustments to its supply chain to mitigate the  impact of the proposed tariffs on goods imported from China. 

** Home furnishing retailer Pier 1 Imports (PIR.N)  says the company does not expect financial results in fiscal 2019 to be  materially affected by proposed tariffs. About 59 percent of the  companys fiscal 2019 net sales are expected to be derived from  merchandise produced in China.  
Of the 59 percent of 2019 sales from Chinese merchandise, about half is expected to have products subject to proposed tariff. 

** U.S. motorcycle maker Harley-Davidson Inc (HOG.N)  said it expected incremental costs of about $15 million to $20 million  for the remainder of the year from the steel and aluminum tariffs  imposed by Trump. It also says it will take further hits from  retaliatory moves from the European Union. 
** Polaris Industries Inc (PII.N),  which makes Indian motorcycles, raised its 2018 cost estimates related  to tariffs to $40 million from $7 million, and said it expected to ramp  up motorcycle production in Poland for European market in 2019 to offset  higher costs. 

** Diversified industrial manufacturer 3M Co (MMM.N)  said it expects an impact of about $10 million, or 1 cent per share, on  an annualized basis from the tariffs passed so far. The company also  said it was prepared to make changes to supply, sourcing and pricing in  response to any further tariffs. 

** Paper and packaging company International Paper (IP.N) Chief Executive Officer Mark Sutton says the company has so far not had any direct impact from tariff disputes. 

** Otis elevator maker United Technologies Corp (UTX.N)  said based on tariffs which have been enacted so far it expects to see 5  cent per share impact in 2018. The company expects to see a much bigger  impact in 2019.     

** Medical device maker Boston Scientific (BSX.N)  said it buys a very small portion of components from China and that  it has the ability to substitute with other suppliers outside of China  since it does not manufacture in the country.     ** Upscale home  furnishing chain RH (RH.N)  expects to reduce significantly the amount of goods sourced from China  in its 2019 fiscal year to mitigate the impact of proposed new tariffs  by the United States. 

** Gentex Corp (GNTX.O),  a maker of aircraft windows and rear-view mirrors, said it expected  cost increases of between $5 million and $8 million for the second half  of 2018 related to its planned purchases of raw materials from China. 

** Meat Processor Tyson Foods Inc (TSN.N)  cut its full-year profit forecast, citing the uncertainty in trade  policies and increased tariffs that have hurt domestic and export prices  of meat. 

** Toymaker Hasbro Inc (HAS.O)  said it was moving more production out of China as a result of the  tariffs, adding 30 percent of its manufacturing was now done elsewhere.   

** Danaher Corp (DHR.N),  which develops technology for the dental, life sciences, diagnostics  and environmental industries,  said it expected an earnings impact of 1  cent per quarter, and that it would look to modify manufacturing  locations. 

** U.S. pipeline operator Plains All American Pipeline (PAA.N)  said the tariffs were tolerable for the company, but it applied for  exemptions. However, the company added that if it could not get the  exemption or the required quota of steel, it would just basically  extend and delay growth.  

Compiled by Manas Mishra and Laharee Chatterjee in Bengaluru; Editing by Sweta Singh

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-us...-idUKKBN1KK23C

----------


## OhOh

> You know that your feeble non sequiturs  have no bearing on the fact that China is using its economic might,  often illegally, to parasitically seize every resource it can get its  grubby hands on, right?
> 
> You sound like a Fox News anchor with your stupid "What about" shite.


*



Wary of China's rise, Pompeo announces U.S. initiatives in emerging Asia*


_"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced  $113 million (86.01 million pounds)in new technology, energy and  infrastructure initiatives in emerging Asia on Monday, at a time when  China is pouring billions of dollars in investments into the region. 

In a policy speech delivered amid increased U.S. trade frictions with  China and other Asian countries, Pompeo sought to define the economic  aspect of President Donald Trump’s “Indo-Pacific” strategy, which aims  to cast the United States as a trustworthy partner in the region.

__Pompeo  said Washington wants a “free and open” Asia not dominated by any one  country, an apparent reference to China’s growing economic clout and  heightened tensions in the disputed South China Sea. 

_
_“Like so  many of our Asian allies and friends, our country fought for its own  independence from an empire that expected deference,” Pompeo told the  U.S. Chamber of Commerce. “We thus have never and will never seek  domination in the Indo-Pacific, and we will oppose any country that  does.” 

_
_“These funds represent just a down payment on a new era in U.S.  economic commitment to peace and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region,”  Pompeo said. 
_
_Pompeo said he will visit Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia this week, where he planned to announce new security assistance.

_
_U.S.  officials said the American strategy does not aim to compete directly  with China’s Belt and Road Initiative, which involves dozens of  countries in an estimated $1 trillion of mostly state-led infrastructure  projects linking Asia, parts of Africa and Europe, but rather to offer a  more sustainable alternative by encouraging private-sector investment.   

_
_Eswar Prasad, a Cornell University trade professor and former  head of the IMF’s China division, said the U.S.  initiatives are tiny in  comparison to China’s
. 
_
_“In both scale and scope, these  initiatives pale in ambition relative to comparable initiatives by  China,” Prasad said. “It also highlights the distinction between China’s  approach of bold and grand government-led initiatives and the much more  modest role of the U.S. government.” 

_
_Analysts said it  was difficult to see the U.S. effort generating much excitement in the  region, especially given Trump’s habit of undercutting his policy makers  on issues ranging from trade to dealings with North Korea. 

_
_“The  announcement of $113 million to fund economic engagement for the entire  region feels a bit underwhelming,” said Daniel Russel of the Asia  Society Policy Institute, until last year the State Department’s top  diplomat for East Asia. 

_
*‘AMERICA FIRST’ 
*

_Countries in the  region have been worried by Trump’s “America first” policy, withdrawal  from the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal and pursuit of a  trade conflict with China that threatens to disrupt regional supply  chains. 

_
_The United States first outlined its strategy to develop the Indo-Pacific economy at an Asia-Pacific summit last year. 

_
_It  used the term “Indo-Pacific,” defined by Pompeo as a region stretching  from the U.S. West Coast to India’s west coast, to highlight a broader  and democratic-led region in place of “Asia-Pacific,” which from some  perspectives had authoritarian China too firmly at its center. 

_
_Among  the new investments outlined by Pompeo, the United States will invest  $25 million to expand U.S. technology exports to the region, add nearly  $50 million this year to help countries produce and store energy  resources and create a new assistance network to boost infrastructure  development. 

_
_Pompeo said the United States has signed a $350  million investment compact with Mongolia to develop new water sources.  He said the U.S government’s Millennium Challenge Corporation was also  finalizing an agreement to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in  transportation and other reforms in Sri Lanka._ 
_Speaking at the  same event, U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said Washington also  eased export controls for high-technology product sales to India.  
_
_Ray  Washburne, president of the U.S. government’s Overseas Private  Investment Corporation, said it hopes to double the $4 billion it  currently has invested in the Indo-Pacific “in the next few years.” 

_
_Brian  Hook, Pompeo’s senior policy adviser, told reporters before Pompeo’s  speech that Washington is not competing with China’s mostly state-led  initiatives.

_
_“Our way of doing things is to keep the government’s  role very modest, and it’s focused on helping businesses do what they  do best,” Hook said.

_
_Critics of Beijing’s Belt and Road  Initiative have said it is more about spreading Chinese influence and  hooking countries on massive debts. Beijing has said it is simply a  development project that any country is welcome to join. "_


https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-trade/wary-of-chinas-rise-pompeo-announces-u-s-initiatives-in-emerging-asia-idUKKBN1KK0TH

  l
This smells awfully like ameristani government money trying to buy friends and influence.  I

Offering "state" money and bribing foreign governments. Illegal in ameristan's capatalist system surely?

MAGA.  


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Hugh Cow

Interestingly not one line on the effects of U.S. tariffs on China. Apparently its alll Ho Hum for the Chinese so one has to wonder why they even bother retaliating. Of course unless those tarriffs really are biting China on the Arse.

----------


## OhOh

> Interestingly not one line on the effects of U.S. tariffs on China.


Read the title from the UK Reuters produced article, it gives an educated, aware, poster a clue:




> Factbox - Impact of U.S.-China trade tariffs *on U.S. companies*


However, per your request, an affect of the trade dispute on Chinese companies here:

*Henan pig farmers cut soybean pulp consumption amid Sino-US tensions*

                                      Xinhua |             Updated: 2018-07-31 10:07                                           

       [Photo/IC]       
_ZHENGZHOU－Pig farmers in Central China's Henan province are reducing  soybean pulp consumption in response to its rising price amid the trade  conflict between China and the United States.

__Ye Chuanlin is in charge of a company that specializes in producing pig feed in Henan, known for its large-scale pig industry.

__In recent years, Ye's company has been focusing on developing pig  feed formulas that contain a lower proportion of soybean pulp. The  ongoing trade dispute propelled the company to use new formulas.
_
_"Traditional pig feed contains about 20 percent soybean pulp. But due  to the recent trade conflict, we started to cut the amount used in our  products by replacing it with desirable alternatives," Ye said.
_
_"Now my company produces a feed with only 10 percent soybean pulp," Ye added.

__Soybean pulp consists of insoluble parts of the soybean that remain  after the oil is extracted. With multiple factors in play, the price of  soybean pulp has recently experienced a slight increase.
_
_According to data released by the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural  Affairs, in the first week of July, the average price of soybean pulp  rose 3.7 percent compared to the same period last year.
_
_China has the largest livestock breeding industry in the world, and  soybeans are a major source of protein in livestock feed. In 2017, China  imported more than 32.85 million metric tons of soybeans from the US,  accounting for 34.4 percent of China's total soybean imports.
_
_After the US ignited the trade war in early July, China was forced to  implement 25 percent additional tariffs on a range of US products,  including soybeans._
_As the world's two major economic powers trade blows, the pig-rearing industry in Henan is feeling the pain.
_
_Henan has the second-largest number of slaughter pigs in China, with an annual pig slaughter of about 62 million last year.
_
_Official statistics indicate that the 3.2 million tons of soybeans  Henan imported from the US in 2017 were able to produce 25 million tons  of soybean pulp, which made up more than half of the total volume that  the province needed to run the industry.
_
_Meanwhile, from January to May this year, the number of soybeans  imported from the US accounted for more than 30 percent of the total  soybean imports in Henan, according to Zhengzhou Customs.
_
_Pig farms in Henan said the recent bump in soybean pulp prices will  not have a perceptible impact on the breeding industry, as some  companies are reducing the percentage of pulp in their products through  finding suitable replacements to hedge against the price swing.
_
_Xie Jiangang has a small pig breeding company with 4,000 live pigs in Nanyang city, Henan province.
_
_He said the cost of soybean pulp in pig feed has remained high for  some years, but he has used a number of alternatives such as peanut  meal, cotton aphid, and corn DDGS－dried distillers' grains with  solubles－to reduce the percentage of soybean pulp in the fodder.
_
_To date, Xie has successfully reduced the amount of soybean pulp in  pig feed to less than 10 percent and found that the fodder that contains  lower soybean pulp does not seem to affect the quality of the pork.
_
_"I have already had five different kinds of sophisticated pig feed  formulas, and I will choose the most cost-effective one," Xie said.

__Professor Li Ming from Henan Agricultural University said that  against the backdrop of Sino-US trade conflict, more pig breeders in  Henan will seek to reduce the use of soybean pulp in their pig feed  formulas as a countermeasure against the price rise.
_
_"Although the growth rate of pigs may be affected, it will have a positive effect on the general quality of the pork," Li added._

Henan pig farmers cut soybean pulp consumption amid Sino-US tensions - Chinadaily.com.cn


Adapt and survive or not.

It appears the feed processors have adopted an acceptable lower soya been content, from 20% to 10%, and added alternatives in their pig formulae.

 The new feed, allegedly, decreases the pigs growth rate and hence increases the farmers costs but allegedly, improves the quality, which may increase the farmers sales figure.

There are other articles of companies in the phone and electronics industries which have been affected more seriously. They again are looking and sometimes have found, alternate suppliers. I'll leave those for you or MK to post, I'm sure VOA has some, if interested. :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

*Trump's overture to emerging Asia drowned out by trade war*


SINGAPORE (Reuters) 

_"When the U.S. Secretary of State flies into  Southeast Asia this week with a new investment pitch for the region, the  response could be: thanks a million, but please stop threatening a  trade war with China that will make us lose billions of dollars.

__Analysts say the $113 million of technology, energy and  infrastructure initiatives trumpeted by Mike Pompeo earlier this week -  the first concrete details of U.S. President Donald Trumps vague  Indo-Pacific policy - may be hard to sell to countries that form an  integral part of Chinese exporters supply chains. 
_
_It may even  further inflame tensions with Beijing, which has been spreading money  and influence across the region via its Belt and Road Initiative  development scheme. 
_
_The Southeast Asian capitals are more  worried about any blowback effects for them of U.S.-China trade tension  than they are about how much they can benefit from this $113 million  initiative, said Malcolm Cook, senior fellow at the Institute of  Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore. 
_
_Pompeo has a hard selling job. There is still no real positive trade story for Asia coming out of the United States. 
_
_Hot  on the heels of Washingtons new economic plan for emerging Asia came  reports the United States could more than double planned tariffs on $200  billion of imported Chinese goods from dog food to building materials.  China called it blackmail and vowed retaliation. 
_
_After a brief  meeting with new Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad in Kuala  Lumpur, Pompeo will fly to Singapore - a global trading hub that could  be one of the hardest-hit in the region by a trade war - for a sit-down  with the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) on  Friday. 
_
_Singapores biggest bank, DBS, estimates that a  full-scale trade war - defined as 15-25 percent tariffs on all products  traded between the U.S. and China - could more than halve Singapores  growth rate next year from a forecast 2.7 percent to 1.2 percent.  Malaysias growth rate in 2019 could fall from an estimated 5 percent to  3.7 percent. 
_
_We are all acutely aware of the storm clouds of  trade war, Singapores Foreign Minister Vivian Balakrishnan said at the  opening of an ASEAN foreign ministers meeting on Thursday that precedes  meetings with the United States and other nations. 
_
_Singapores  Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said earlier this year that a trade war  would have a big, negative impact on the country.  
_
_Ratings  agency Moodys said this week that an escalation of trade tensions in  2018 had become its baseline expectation, and that Asia was  especially vulnerable given the integration of regional supply chains."  _ 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUKKBN1KN090

----------


## OhOh

*US almond growers anxious over tariffs*

By LIA ZHU (China Daily)    08:38, August 08, 2018




_"Amid expectations of a robust harvest, California's almond growers are  anxious over reduced demand due to new tariffs imposed by other  countries._ _     California's almond industry, projected to yield a record 2.45 billion  pounds of the nuts this year, faces retaliatory tariffs in China, Turkey  and India.
_
_     China imported 151 million pounds of California almonds last year,  making it the state's third-largest overseas market. The Chinese duty on  almonds from the United States has now risen to 50 percent from 10  percent after two rounds of tariffs in April and July.
_
_     "The impact now is more anxiety, because we don't know how it's going  to be in the long run," said Jake Wenger, an almond grower in Modesto,  California, and vice-president of the Stanislaus County Farm Bureau  Board.
_
_     "When you have one harvest a year, you are basically working all year  spending money on pest control, fertilizer and water, and hoping that at  the end of the year you make enough money to cover your costs and then  make a little bit yourself. Nobody wants to work for free or lose  money," said Wenger.
_
_     The industry's two biggest concerns are importers' requests for  delaying shipment on existing contracts for the 2017 crop, and an  overall reduction in contracting for the new crop, said Richard Waycott,  president and CEO of the Almond Board of California, a nonprofit  representing more than 6,000 almond growers and processors.
_
_     "What we are seeing is uncertainty that has been in the marketplace for  several months now, and it is affecting normal buyer-seller  relationships," he said.
_
_     According to the board's monthly market report, exports to China  dropped in June to almost half the level seen in the same period last  year.
_
_     Two factors played a role in the falling shipment volume: postponement  of some shipments and a record shipment last year, said Waycott.
_
_     California produces almost all US commercial almonds and 82 percent of  the global supply. Almonds are California's third-biggest revenue earner  among commodities.
_
_     The only other significant supplier to China is Australia, which  negotiated a free-trade agreement with Beijing five years ago. The  tariff on Australian almonds will drop to zero on Jan 1.
_
_     "I know many Chinese buyers are attempting to buy from Australia to  avoid the tariffs on US products, but the volume is not sufficient to  satisfy Chinese demand," Waycott said.
_
_     "Another impact would be if Chinese buyers switch preference to other  nuts, like macadamia nuts, or hazelnuts, until the situation is  resolved," he added.
_
_     The board has been actively investing in China for about 30 years. Its  consumer education program in China is the largest one outside of the  US. "We will continue to be a longtime partner in the nut business in  China," said Waycott._
_     From a grower's perspective, the only thing they can do to control the  negative impact is to control costs, including using less fertilizer,  and reducing labor costs, said Wenger.
_
_     "We get paid the price that people are willing to pay for our products," he said.
_
_     The industry will get a better idea where prices will be within around  three months, by which time the growers will be wrapping up harvest  season. But they won't see the full picture until about a year from now  when they get final payment, said Wenger.
_
_     "We hope by then we can have trade agreements that can get rid of the  tariffs. As a grower, we lean on our elected leaders to develop trade  policies that allow fluid movement of US goods and commodities into the  world market," he said._



US almond growers anxious over tariffs - People's Daily Online

----------


## OhOh

Will 3D printing revolutionise manufacturing for the masses as opposed to the entrenched 0.001%

*3D Printed Guns: Debating Inevitability

*

_

"3D printing and other forms of  computer-controlled manufacturing have allowed nations, companies and  even individuals the ability to go from consumers to producers. As this  technology improves and costs drop, access to this technology and the  ability of the technology itself will increase, making it possible for  virtually anyone, anywhere to make virtually anything.

__In May 2018, prominent US-based corporate-funded policy think tank, RAND Corporation, had published an article titled, Four Ways 3D Printing May Threaten Security.  In it, an argument was made about the dangers of 3D printing becoming  more accessible, first by citing 3D printed guns as well as drones and  other forms of technology it claimed criminals and terrorists could  leverage. But then RAND would reveal a threat, particularly to its  corporate sponsors, that highlighted the true fears 3D printing invokes among the captains of established industries  decentralization.

__The  fear of 3D printing taking jobs for example, can more accurately be  described as taking both jobs and revenue from large corporations and  shifting them both to small companies or individual entrepreneurs. Along  with this shift, goes the concentration of wealth and influence these  large corporations have enjoyed, some since as early as the beginning of  the Industrial Revolution.__RAND also feared nations targeted by US  sanctions being able to easily circumvent them by acquiring the parts  and systems required by simply manufacturing them themselves through the  use of technology like 3D printing. In reality, RAND and other  representatives of established industries seem more concerned about  losing their wealth and influence than of any threat such technologies  might or might not actually pose."

_Continues at:_

https://journal-neo.org/2018/08/08/3...inevitability/_

----------


## OhOh

*China, UN to safeguard free trade*

_"Li states nation's commitment to multilateralism, global commerce

_ _ 	China is ready to work with other countries and the United Nations in  supporting multilateralism and the free trade system, which are  confronted by rising trade protectionism, Premier Li Keqiang said on  Wednesday.
_
_ 	The country will firmly safeguard the authority of the UN, adhere to  principles of the UN Charter and support its core role in international  affairs, said Li during a meeting with Maria Fernanda Espinosa Garces,  the newly elected president of the UN General Assembly for the 73rd  session, in Beidaihe district, Qinhuangdao, Hebei province.
_
_ 	Espinosa Garces, an Ecuadorean diplomat, will assume office next month._
_ 	Fundamental rules of the World Trade Organization should be  safeguarded, and the free trade system should be improved to promote  trade liberalization and investment facilitation, and to fight against  trade protectionism, the premier said.
_
_ 	As a permanent member of the UN Security Council and the world's  largest developing country, China has been supporting the UN's work, Li  said. China will participate in UN missions in various fields - such as  politics, peacekeeping and development, and economic affairs - in  comprehensive and in-depth ways, the premier said. The country will  fulfill its international obligations and promote world peace, foster  global development and safeguard the international order, he said.
_
_ 	Over the past seven decades since the founding of the UN, the world has  seen relative peace and more than a billion people have been lifted out  of poverty, while increasing numbers of countries are undergoing  development and attaining prosperity, the premier said. All of these  achievements have been closely connected with the process of  globalization and multilateralism, he said.
_
_ 	Against the current international scenario, a multilateral world is  needed now more than ever, Li said. He called on all countries to  safeguard the rules-based international order, adhere to the principles  of the UN Charter and resolve disputes through dialogue._
_ 	Li said the UN and the WTO should be reformed and improved based on the  international order after World War II, and according to major  principles such as the UN Charter and free trade.
_
_ 	Espinosa Garces said the UN has attached great importance to its  relations with China. She spoke highly of the country's vital role in  strengthening multilateralism and its enormous contribution to the UN's  work._
_ 	The UN is ready to work with China and other countries in safeguarding  the rules-based international order, promoting free trade under the  framework of international laws and WTO rules, and boosting economic  globalization that is inclusive and beneficial for everyone, she said._
_ 	The two sides should work together to cope with challenges and promote  global peace, stability, development and prosperity, Espinosa Garces  added."_

China, UN to safeguard free trade - People's Daily Online



Working with partners for the win/win again.

----------


## Latindancer

Oh good. 

They can start by dismantling their bases in the South China Sea, release all the Uyghurs and compensate them and their families for everything they have done to them, and completely piss off out of Tibet.

----------


## misskit

*Handling of U.S. trade dispute causes rift in Chinese leadership: sources*BEIJING (Reuters) - A growing trade war with the United States is causing rifts within China’s Communist Party, with some critics saying that an overly nationalistic Chinese stance may have hardened the U.S. position, according to four sources close to the government.

President Xi Jinping still has a firm grip on power, but an unusual surge of criticism about economic policy and how the government has handled the trade war has revealed rare cracks in the ruling Communist Party. 


A backlash is being felt at the highest levels of the government, possibly hitting a close aide to Xi, his ideology chief and strategist Wang Huning, according to two sources familiar with discussions in leadership circles. 


A prominent and influential academic whose views have found favor in some party quarters has also come under attack for his strident views on Chinese power. 


Wang, who was the architect of the “China Dream”, Xi’s vision for China to become a strong and prosperous nation, has been taken to task by the Chinese leader for crafting an excessively nationalistic image for the country, which has only provoked the United States, the sources said.


MORE. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1KU0TU

----------


## Neverna

I'm fighting back against Trump's global economic war. I'm buying much less from the US. I'm either greatly reducing or eliminating products that I buy that originate from the USA and/or are well known US brands (as far as I can determine). Fuck Trump.

----------


## HuangLao

> I'm fighting back against Trump's global economic war. I'm buying much less from the US. I'm either greatly reducing or eliminating products that I buy that originate from the USA and/or are well known US brands (as far as I can determine). Fuck Trump.


Good onya, Nev.
Buy local only.

----------


## Klondyke

> I'm buying much less from the US.


Just curious what do you buy here from the US... (I assume you do not buy weaponry, do you?)

----------


## OhOh

The last obvious purchase for me was some Levi jeans some 5 years ago, which upon checking were made in Pakistan. Flying any plane supports ameristan, but next to impossible to avoid. A computer and a mobile some years probably earnt ameristani companies licence fees.

----------


## Hugh Cow

I shall help support the American economy by purchasing 2 large bottles of duty free Jack on my return to the old country.......Purely as a gesture of solidarity of course.

----------


## Neverna

> Just curious what do you buy here from the US... (I assume you do not buy weaponry, do you?)


Mostly food but sometimes clothes and sometimes electronic stuff.

I'm also banning myself from buying Tesla cars, any US made weaponry and red MAGA baseball caps.  :Smile:

----------


## Neo



----------


## bsnub

^ Aren't you own of those guys who claims party does not matter?

----------


## Switch

He’s a socialist. Similar to you but much farther to the left. Almost as radical as Cyrille

----------


## OhOh

^^Thanks for the video, it would be amusing if the ramifications wern't so disastrous.

----------


## baldrick

who will claim ownership of the impending disaster ?

----------


## Neo

> ^^Thanks for the video, it would be amusing if the ramifications wern't so disastrous.


incredible isn't it that this Peter Navarro guy is Trump's trade advisor  :Dance:

----------


## baldrick

^ was that the john oliver last week tonght episode  ?  I do not have enough data to watch video where I am right now

ok , I got a summary




> Partway through John Oliver’s main story on Sunday’s Last Week Tonight, the host showed a bombastically wrong-headed clip from a documentary called Death By China. Filled with ominously hyperbolic narration (Martin Sheen, c’mon guy) and simplistic, ineptly fear-mongering animations (America is stabbed, right in the heartland, by a murder-knife emblazoned with “Made In China”), the documentary is the sort of hyperventilating, fact-averse nonsense the guy you least want to talk to demands you watch right now. Oliver even quotes Scott Tobias’ 2012 A.V. Club review of the film, calling the Death By China, “the documentary equivalent of a raving street-corner derelict.”
> Fun stuff. But why devote so much comic vitriol to a little-seen, critically lambasted, fact-challenged piece of bargain-basement economic propaganda? Well—and try to conceal your shock here—the director of that film, and author of best-sellers about China the global economic boogeyman, is one Peter Navarro, currently head of Donald Trump’s Office Of Trade And Manufacturing Policy. Yup. And not only that, as Oliver reveals, but Navarro is also essentially the only person propping up Trump’s ongoing trade war with China, even though literally no other reputable economists in the country view Navarro as anything but a joke. (Asked to provide two economists who back up his hyperbolic take on Chinese-American trade by The New Yorker, Navarro gave two whole names—one who refuted Navarro’s central premise, and the other a blogger without an economics degree who, Oliver shows, has inserted his own online author photo sideways.)
> 
> So, we’re fucked on the trade front, too. Especially as Oliver presents evidence of how clearly Donald Trump misunderstands even the most basic concepts (trade deficits, economics, tariffs, math, international trade agreements, facts) upon which he’s waging his trade war. Armed with clips of Trump doing lots of funny voices while claiming “Trade—ugh—I’m gonna do so good,” and promising to tell China “Listen you motherfuckers, I’m gonna tax you 25 percent,” Oliver went on to show how world leaders like Germany’s Angela Merkel and others have patiently tried to dumb down the core concepts of why what Trump’s doing is fundamentally, childishly idiotic—complete with colorful flash cards and props—all to no avail. Picture a mirror image of that scene in Trading Places where the Duke Brothers condescendingly explain commodities trading to Billy Ray Valentine, except here it’s Merkel shooting the camera a “can you believe this shit?” look.
> 
> It all brings us back to Navarro, who—and again try to feign surprise—was found by presidential son-in-law and “nothing boy” (as Oliver dubs him) Jared Kushner searching for best-selling economists on Amazon, and who views his job as “to try to provide the underlying analytics that conform [Trump’s] intuition.” As Oliver explains, that is “simply terrifying,” since—in addition to that being how advisors to actual authoritarians work—Donald Trump’s intuition means his tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminum will actually wipe out hundreds of thousands more American jobs than they create. Oliver conceded that, even with plenty of sex jokes and funny, insulting nicknames, his report is far too complicated to hold Trump’s attention. So he put together a Death By China-style mini-documentary, complete with gobs of animated blood and a scary voice-guy telling Trump how what he’s doing is the economic equivalent of hurling a razor-edged boomerang, right at dick level.


this aggregation of articles on the navarro bloke does not paint a good image - https://systemunknown.com/light/Peter_Navarro

----------


## OhOh

*US trade entities express frustration over new tariffs on Chinese goods*

           (CRI Online)    08:02, August 23, 2018

_"__US business and trade groups are expressing their frustration over the latest round of proposed tariffs on Chinese goods.
__     They are voicing their concerns at public hearings in the capital.
_
_     The Office of US Trade Representative first proposed a 10% tariff on  about 200 billion of Chinese imports in July and later raised that rate  to 25%. This week and next Monday a public hearing on the proposal is  being held in Washington DC.
_
_     Most representatives at the hearing voiced strong opposition against  the proposal, saying a tariff hike will result in a heavy burden on  American companies, and ultimately rising prices for American consumers.
_
_     Bob Margevicius is executive vice President for Bicycle Product  Suppliers Association and Specialized Bicycle Components in America.
_
_     "The biggest concern is that it impacts virtually all bicycles, in  particular it impacts children's bicycles. The majority we import here  in the US are children's bikes. Children's bikes are entry points for  kids to get involved in cycling. They become immersed and they become  part of it. It actually engages them for future usage of bikes and for  the future being part of our industry. So we really need them."
_
_     Margevicius began his testimony at the hearing by asking the panelists  if they still remember how exciting it was for them to get their first  bike. When I asked him if adjusting the supply chain will be able to  help them evade tariffs, he told me it won't be easy._

_     "Individual components are produced locally in China, whether through  Tianjin, or Kunshan, or in the Shenzhen area. The products themselves  need to meet safety requirements. So to transition from one country to  another takes a lot of time to build the manufacturing cluster. It's a  difficult and complex project for us."_
_     Americans buy about 18 million bikes every year and most of these bikes  come from China. Statistics show that if the US government were to  impose tariffs on bikes and related products coming from China, the  accumulative tariffs rate for American consumers will be as high as 36%.  The even bigger concern is that this will cause bike retail stores to  close, the bike industry to shrink, and people employed in the industry  to lose their jobs.
_
_     An argument frequently raised by trade entity representatives at the  hearing is that over the years China has developed a high level of  craftsmanship and labor quality, which makes it very hard for them to  find substitute makers in other countries in a short period of time.
_
_     Ross Bishop, once an engineer of major US defense tech company Lockheed  Martin and a pilot, is now president of a company that produces  specialized luggage for pilots. He said if you pick the right factory in  China, the workers can be artists._
_     "We've worked with factories in Vietnam before. The products weren't as  good and they ended up getting more and more expensive. So if you can  work with the best force and with the best price, and it happens to be  China, and that's what you are going to do."_
_     Bishop also told me that his company was planning to expand its  business, but the government's tariffs proposal is forcing them to slow  down._
_     Besides all the frustration and anger from manufacturers in the  country, the bigger worry is obviously placed on American households,  who many argue will eventually pay for the protectionist trade approach  by the government.
_
_     Lawyer Francis Sailer said "this is not a tariff that's going to in any  way hurt China. It's gonna hurt Tom, Jones, and Bob, Smith, and the  guys who have the startup companies that rely on the expertise that's  been developed in China. So it's crazy."_
_     The Office of the US Trade Representative said earlier that due to an  unforeseen number of entities seeking to present their cases, the length  of the hearing had been doubled. It's estimated that over 350  representatives from US companies and trade associations will attend the  hearing. Written statements will be received till September 6th and  after that the panel at the hearing will deliver a policy recommendation  to the US Trade Representative."_



US trade entities express frustration over new tariffs on Chinese goods - People's Daily OnlineI am looking forward to the Public Hearing MSM reports, the official report, the government officers statements and the revisions being acted upon by ameristani legislators.

Also any Chinese, European and the rest of the world's responses.

Look over there:

----------


## OhOh

*PMIs Signal "US Economy Has Cooled" In Q2, Manufacturing "Has Led The Slowdown"*


_"As US economic 'hard data' has collapsed in recent months, US  manufacturing and services industries PMIs 'soft data' have both  tumbled, and preliminary August data extended that streak with  slower business activity growth reflected the weakest rise in new order  volumes since December 2017.  US Manufacturing and Services PMIs miss expectations and drop for the 3rd month in a row..

__Staffing levels increased at the softest pace for over one year in August. _ 
_Based on the 'soft' survey data that PMIs represent, US remains the 'best' among the major economies of the world...
_
_Commenting on the flash PMI data, Chris Williamson, Chief Business Economist at IHS Markit said:

__“The US economy lost a little pace in August,  according to the flash PMI, but continued to grow at a solid rate. The  PMI is indicative of the economy growing at an annualised rate of  roughly 2.5%, down from a 3.0% indicated rate in July.
_
_“Output, new orders and employment growth all moderated,  adding to signs that the economy has cooled after strong growth in the  second quarter.
_
_"Backlogs of uncompleted work, a key indicator of future output and hiring, meanwhile fell for the first time for over a year, suggesting the slowing trend could persist into the fall.
_
_“Manufacturing has led the slowdown, though the service sector has also come off the boil compared to the second quarter highs.
_
_“Some of the slowdown can be attributed to supply shortages: jobs  growth in manufacturing and services is being restricted by a lack of  available workers, while factories are also constrained by a lack of raw  materials, sometimes blamed on ‘panic-buying’ of safety stocks as well as a lack of transportation to ship goods around.
__The punchline: companies can no longer pass thru rising costs:

__“However, the survey also found increased cases of companies  reporting the need to cut costs, in part reflecting the recent steep  rise in raw material prices, often linked to tariffs and shortage-related price hikes."
__The silver lining is that inflation, for now, has moderated:_



https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...s-led-slowdown


I'm sure goldilocks has a tweet at the ready for the consequences, which have yet to be shown to him, by his handlers.

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## Norton

> who will claim ownership of the impending disaster ?


Obama, Hillary and her hubby Bill  :Smile:

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## baldrick

what ?  I thought this was all part of the "Q" plan ?  :Smile:

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