#  >  > Computers Can Be Fun >  >  > Computer News >  >  Project Magenta - hackintosh for iOS on Android hardware

## Cthulhu

Now, that's what I'm talking about**:

Magenta Project Is A Linux-Based iOS Clone For Generic Hardware | iJailbreak.com

With The “Magenta Project” You Could Run iOS 5.0 On Android Smartphones And Other Generic Hardware

The hacker Chronic has recently been actively tweeting about an upcoming project called “Magenta“. The Magenta Project is essentially aiming to replicate iOS on the Linux kernel. In more technical terms it is an implementation of Darwin/BSD on top of the Linux kernel that will by fully binary compatible with iPhone iOS 5.0 firmware. This essentially means that you could run a stable version of iOS on Android smartphones.



At this time not much is really known about the Magenta Project, but work is defiantly underway and more progress is being made by the day. In fact, the progress made already is actually available for other developers to poke and prod at as this is an open source project.



By now I am sure you are wondering whether or not actually running iOS applications will be possible considering Magenta is fully binary compatible with the iPhone iOS 5.0 firmware. According the developers:




> No, because I’m not aiming to have compatible high level frameworks. Just think
> about how much work is required to have a 100% compatible implementation of UIKit
> or Celestial. HOWEVER, the CoreOS part should be 100% (or 99%) compatible. Just not
> the higher level OS. If you’re just interested in this because it will “run iOS apps”
> please go away.


This is not to say however, that once the project is completed another developer will not come along and complete the work required to get iOS applications running on Magenta. For more information on the Magenta Project you can visit the official website. What do you think about eventually being able to run iOS on generic hardware like Android smartphones?

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## Neo

> This essentially means that you could run a stable version of iOS on Android smartphones.


Why would you want to?

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## Cthulhu

Essentially, this is the route Android should have gone, instead of saddling us with the Java crap Andy Rubin is so fond of using. That's what my initial impression was when I heard Android is Linux based. Then I found out the actual user level is all Java based, and I knew it was going to be a lagging POS, as it turned out to be. 

Then again, that's all Andy Rubin knows, back from his Danger days - and it's great for a limited system like the Sidekick. It's woefully inadequate for a system like Android ended up being. 

Mind you, Android was initially conceived as a Blackberry clone. Java would have been perfectly suited for that - once objectives changed, and they decided to copy the iPhone, they kept the same infrastructure, because changing it would have been too expensive (time and money) - so Andy Rubin's lack of competence, and Google's last minute change of direction, screwed over what could have been a pretty cool environment. 

Let's hope Project Magenta gains traction, so some of those Android phones can actually become useful. ;-)

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## Cthulhu

> Why would you want to?


This is probably a good discussion, once trolls are ignored.

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## harrybarracuda

> Essentially, this is the route Android should have gone, instead of saddling us with the Java crap Andy Rubin is so fond of


Still the prick, Quacky. Gosling and Sun did Java, Oracle bought Sun when it was going tits up, and just lost a case against Google.

What the fuck are you blabbering on about now?

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## Butterfly

> The Magenta Project is essentially aiming to replicate iOS on the Linux kernel.


what would anyone want to do that ? sounds like a complete waste of time,

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## Cthulhu

> Originally Posted by Cthulhu
> 
> The Magenta Project is essentially aiming to replicate iOS on the Linux kernel.
> 
> 
> what would anyone want to do that ? sounds like a complete waste of time,


How refreshing it is to see you on this thread, Butterfly - you are such a breath of fresh air, compared to that other troll.

This isn't so much about running iOS on Android hardware, but rather the concept of assembling a smartPhone operating system that is not mired by all of Android's problems (namely its reliance on Java) - though, it should be possible to create an Android compatibility layer (similar to what RIM did for the Playbook, but one that would actually work) which would then even allow running Android software on Project Magenta (thus giving it a roster of actual apps to run - though, being Android apps, why'd anyone want to do that?).

Basically, it's about doing something natively based, versus Java crap.

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## Butterfly

^ I didn't see any evidence of Java domination under Android ? could you point to specifics ?

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## Cthulhu

> ^ I didn't see any evidence of Java domination under Android ? could you point to specifics ?


The Android SDK, as well as all Android Apps, are written only in Java.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)




> Android has a large community of developers writing applications ("apps") that extend the functionality of the devices. Developers write primarily in a customized version of Java.





> Android consists of a kernel based on the Linux kernel, with middleware, libraries and APIs written in C and application software running on an application framework which includes Java-compatible libraries based on Apache Harmony. Android uses the Dalvik virtual machine with just-in-time compilation to run Dalvik dex-code (Dalvik Executable), which is usually translated from Java bytecode.





> While most Android applications are written in Java, there is no Java Virtual Machine in the platform and Java byte code is not executed. Java classes are compiled into Dalvik executables and run on Dalvik, a specialized virtual machine designed specifically for Android and optimized for battery-powered mobile devices with limited memory and CPU. J2ME support can be provided via third-party applications.


(Dalvik, by the way, sucks and really slows things down - to the point where a bunch of Europeans wrote an work-alike of Dalvik that runs about 10x faster. Obviously, Google chose not to use it, in the interest of being "open".)


What is Android? | Android Developers




> The Android SDK provides the tools and APIs necessary to begin developing applications on the Android platform using the Java programming language.





> Android will ship with a set of core applications including an email client, SMS program, calendar, maps, browser, contacts, and others. All applications are written using the Java programming language.





> Android includes a set of core libraries that provides most of the functionality available in the core libraries of the Java programming language.
> 
> Every Android application runs in its own process, with its own instance of the Dalvik virtual machine.


Satisfied?

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## harrybarracuda

> (Dalvik, by the way, sucks and really slows things down - to the point where a bunch of Europeans wrote an work-alike of Dalvik that runs about 10x faster. Obviously, Google chose not to use it, in the interest of being "open".)


I assume you're talking about Dalvik Turbo?[/quote]

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## Butterfly

> Satisfied?


it's a JIT compilation, so where is the problem ? it's compiled in native mode instead of using the JVM, so again where is your evidence that Android is dominated by Java ? The programming language of the platform is irrelevant if we are not in a scenario of Java Application servers, which doesn't seem to be the case for Android

in short where is the beef Quack Quack ?  ::chitown::

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## Cthulhu

> Originally Posted by Cthulhu
> 
> Satisfied?
> 
> 
> it's a JIT compilation, so where is the problem ? it's compiled in native mode instead of using the JVM, so again where is your evidence that Android is dominated by Java ? The programming language of the platform is irrelevant if we are not in a scenario of Java Application servers, which doesn't seem to be the case for Android
> 
> in short where is the beef Quack Quack ?


Proving, once again, that you don't know what you are talking about, except for what you can glean from Google. It's quite obvious that you have never made any effort to even use or run the SDK, or to see what it takes to develop an Android app (a real app, not a quickie "Hello World" crap) - and, as pointed out, their JIT engine sucks, big time. They are only compensating for the sucking by "encouraging" manufacturers to throw faster hardware at it, to compensate for ever more complex and slower software (while Apple just improves existing OS and performance with subsequent releases - wait 48 hours).

Anyway, it's obvious that any real discourse is pointless with you - unlike HerrBarracuda who is just a troll, you simply don't have the qualifications, knowledge or experience to keep up with such a discussion.

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## Butterfly

> their JIT engine sucks, big time.


ok, so their JIT sucks, that's hardly a Java issue dominance, more like a compiler issue




> you simply don't have the qualifications, knowledge or experience to keep up with such a discussion.


seem to me you got again exposed as ranting on something that was irrelevant to your little Android demonization exercise

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## Cthulhu

Check out Dalvik Turbo - i.e. what can happen when people who know what they are doing put their mind to improving this stuff. This could not only have seriously improved responsiveness of existing apps, and removed the lag most often observed on Android, but it would have allowed to extend that improvement to even older devices (all the ones being orphaned by newer Android releases).

http://developer.mips.com/login/dalvik-turbo/

Buying Dalvik Turbo from MIPS would have been the smartest thing for Google - instead of spending $7 billion on Motorola, they could have used a tiny portion of that to significantly improve Android. Didn't happen, though - as is to be expected from leadership without vision.



 Dalvik Turbo speeds up Android (3D cubes benchmark) - YouTube

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## Butterfly

> there is no Java Virtual Machine in the platform and Java byte code is not executed.


just in case you missed it Quack Quack, also a lot of contradictions in your links above.

regardless, there no Java libs or JRE residing on Android devices, so again where is the dominance of Java on Android devices if there is nowhere to be found on their filesystem  :mid: 

Since the DSK is not installed on the target Android devices, but only on the Dev machine, I don't see how your claim that Java is dominating the Android devices can be valid.

I am sure you have a logical explanation ala Steve Jobs  :Razz:

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## Butterfly

> Buying Dalvik Turbo from MIPS would have been the smartest thing for Google - instead of spending $7 billion on Motorola, they could have used a tiny portion of that to significantly improve Android. Didn't happen, though - as is to be expected from leadership without vision.


ok fine, they could have bought a better compiler, but again, how is that related to Java dominance in Android devices ? there is no JAS or even a Java process,

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## harrybarracuda

> Buying Dalvik Turbo from MIPS would have been the smartest thing for Google


Might be a bit difficult that, considering they don't own it.

 :mid:

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## Cthulhu

> Since the DSK is not installed on the target Android devices, but only on the Dev machine, I don't see how your claim that Java is dominating the Android devices can be valid.


Good luck, then, of having Android do anything without Java involved... seeing as how even the built-in apps are Java based, you'd end up with a pretty pebble with no functionality.

... as always, you look at just a single thing, the pretty pebble in your hand, and you claim there's no Java involved - without Java, it wouldn't work.

That's my point... and yes, the JIT compiler is crap, and continues to be crap, 2 years after a better alternative was made available.

Oh look:

http://www.androidfreeware.net/tag-java.html

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## harrybarracuda

Like I said, I prefer GetJar myself.

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## Butterfly

> ... as always, you look at just a single thing, the pretty pebble in your hand, and you claim there's no Java involved - without Java, it wouldn't work.


are you really that stupid ? your own links it says clearly that the apps are compiled in native mode and there are no Java Application servers or even Java libs on the running devices. Java as an application server is therefore non-present. Using the Java syntax in a Dev framework is a completely different issue which has nothing to do with Java as an application platform on the target device as you originally claimed. Again, you are showing you are completely lost outside your simplistic OSX world.




> Good luck, then, of having Android do anything without Java involved... seeing as how even the built-in apps are Java based, you'd end up with a pretty pebble with no functionality.


Is there a JRE environment in Android devices ? and do Android apps rely on the JRE environment in their target deployment ? quite a simple question, if it's no, then those apps are non-java but native with what I assume are static libs.

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## Cthulhu

Oh boy, are you ever dense... 

Then again, this just goes to show, you're turning into just the exact same sort of troll as BarryCuda. Endless diatribing over unrelated minutiae.

Read the links I posted. There's your answers -- albeit you will probably fail to "get it", predictably.

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## Butterfly

> over unrelated minutiae


they are not unrelated, they address your baseless claims

is there a Java Application server in Android devices ? no, therefore they aren't java apps

it's really that simple,

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## Cthulhu

> is there a Java Application server in Android devices ? no, therefore they aren't java apps


Riiiiiight, that's why everyone refers to them as "Java Apps".

Missed this:

java Android Freeware. Download free java apps for Android Phones.



See where it says "Download free *java apps* for Android phone"

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## Cthulhu

Good bye, Butterfly.

You may go back to High-Fiving Barry, now.

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## Butterfly

people could refer them to MS apps, doesn't mean that they are MS apps

Java apps are clearly defined in terms of programming and deployment platform. What you described so far is not Java apps.

Anyway, I will look in my tab filesystem tonight and try to find Java libs and the JRE and see if there are any apps that are true Java "native" to support your claims. From your own links, it seems it will not be there.

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## harrybarracuda

Don't sweat it Butters, I think we're the only cnuts that talk to him anyway.

 :smiley laughing:

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## Butterfly

> Good bye, Butterfly.


flounce ?  :mid:

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## Cthulhu

Hopefully, this project will gain some traction.

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## harrybarracuda

> Hopefully, this project will gain some traction.


Can't really see anyone buying a perfectly acceptable Android device then fucking it up by putting that shit on it.

 ::chitown::

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## Butterfly

: yawn :

looking for another round to get owned Quack Quack,

tell us again about what you know of Android and Java  :rofl:

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## Cthulhu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software)

Dalvik is the process virtual machine (VM)* in* Google's Android operating system. *It is the software that runs the apps on Android devices.* *Dalvik is thus an integral part of Android*, which is typically used on mobile devices such as mobile phones and tablet computers. *Programs are commonly written in Java* and compiled to bytecode.

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## Gerbil

So this project is...

A) run android
B) put IOS on top of that.
C) add an android layer on top of that for android app compatibility
D) Run IOS apps or Android apps....


Sounds really stable, fast, intuitive, etc.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Typical nerd project. Just because something 'could be done' doesn't mean it makes any sense that it 'should be done'.

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## Butterfly

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software)
> 
> Dalvik is the process virtual machine (VM)* in* Google's Android operating system. *It is the software that runs the apps on Android devices.* *Dalvik is thus an integral part of Android*, which is typically used on mobile devices such as mobile phones and tablet computers. *Programs are commonly written in Java* and compiled to bytecode.


hilarious, even quoting things you obviously don't understand  :rofl: 

it's not a Java VM, it's a proprietary runtime, like MS has for C# and their development tools

Google used the Java syntax for programming (like MS could use C# or even VB) and then compiled into a proprietary model (ala Win)

fucking brilliant, and make tards like you go in round  :Smile:

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## Cthulhu

> So this project is...
> 
> A) run android
> B) put IOS on top of that.
> C) add an android layer on top of that for android app compatibility
> D) Run IOS apps or Android apps....


Incorrect, on all counts. Read. The. Article.

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## Gerbil

^ No. Too much hard work. You explain it. I'm busy.  :Smile:

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## harrybarracuda

I think it's a great idea. People will buy an Android phone because they don't want pay rip off Apple prices; try and get this shit running on it; realise it's a pile of crap and go back to Android; realise Android is better.

And another convert from the gay shit!

Ching Ching!

 :smiley laughing:

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## Cthulhu

> ^ No. Too much hard work. You explain it. I'm busy.


It replaces the Android operating system on the device. Lots of pitfalls because of all the hardware fragmentation, but a solid idea. 

It's essentially what early Android it, by running on OOB Windows Mobile 6 devices, by reflashing the firmware, basically replacing a crappy OS with something more usable - and more importantly to manufacturers, free.

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## Cthulhu

The big promise here is less the effort to place an iPhone look-alike there, but tat hopefully an underlying framework will be created that entirely new UIs can be grafted on.

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## harrybarracuda

You already have that with Android devices. Cyanogenmod, MIUI to name but two.

Don't you know anything?

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## Gerbil

It's a nerdish fantasy load of bollocks.

End of story.

Next.

P.S. Fuck off Daffney.

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## Butterfly

what about that project to have Android run on the iPhone older and newer generation ? now that would be useful

Quack Quack, could you share any light on this ?

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## Cthulhu

> what about that project to have Android run on the iPhone older and newer generation ? now that would be useful
> 
> Quack Quack, could you share any light on this ?


Old news.

Long since abandoned. 2 years old. No recent update, pretty much since 2 years ago, and it had Android running, rather badly, on the iPhone 3G.

April through May 2010:

How to Install Android on Your iPhone | PCWorld

Android Now Running On iPhone 3G | PCWorld

Last blog update - July 5, 2010

Linux on the iPhone


Like I said. Old news. Just like anything you come up.

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## harrybarracuda

Yes because it's a stupid idea running a decent OS like Android on shit itard phones.

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## Butterfly

^ don't agree, if Android is that superior, backward compatibility should be a plus, not a liability like Apple like to say

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## Butterfly

> Originally Posted by Butterfly
> 
> 
> what about that project to have Android run on the iPhone older and newer generation ? now that would be useful
> 
> Quack Quack, could you share any light on this ?
> 
> 
> Old news.
> ...


nice links




> All you fandroids should go back to school. You're all stuck in 2007. Whether you like it or not iOS is far superior.


 :smiley laughing:

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## harrybarracuda

> ^ don't agree, if Android is that superior, backward compatibility should be a plus, not a liability like Apple like to say


I've already played around on the SII installing versions from 2.x to 4.x, before settling on a nice custom build of ICS.

I'm going to try 2.3.7 on the Novo next, to see how fast it flies.

Why the fuck would I want to piss around on that dull little brick of an iphone?

The SII pisses all over it.

I finally got my hands on an SIII yesterday, wow what a beauty and so fast. Not going to buy one yet, but will be interesting to see how quickly that gets jazzed up by developers.

Something you don't get on the tard phone. You buy it, you're stuck with it until Apple decide if they want to do you any favours (not that they do, playing catch with Android all the time).

Can't wait for Google I/O, to see what Android are going to do to rub Apple's noses in it.

 :Smile:

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## Butterfly

> Why the fuck would I want to piss around on that dull little brick of an iphone?


technical challenge ? where is the fun in installing new versions on new devices ? anybody can do that, the real challenge is legacy devices with new OS

how about installing DOS on an iPhone  :Razz:

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## Cthulhu

> All you fandroids should go back to school. You're all stuck in 2007. Whether you like it or not iOS is far superior.


He's got a point.

What I find interesting, though, let's take a look at some of those imaginary numbers fandroids are tossing around:

900,000 daily activations : Like many of the numbers tossed around by Andy Rubin (and mindlessly repeated by the Andy faithful), this number quietly downplays the fact that most Android devices are being 'pre-activated' at the factory, upon installation of the Android device. So, the number more accurately reflects 900,000 Android devices manufactured every day, combined with however many that are bought and being activated.

So, at best, it's a deliberately misleading number.

That said, we don't know how many iOS activations there are every day -- but we do know another number.

Google has revealed that 75% of their mobile revenue comes from iOS - that's a seriously large number. If Android were as overwhelmingly "winning" as the mindless drones bleat about, then why is the majority of Google's mobile revenue not coming from Android? or at least 50%? 

It's not - instead, a significant majority of Google's mobile search revenue originates from the iOS platform. Allegedly the platform that has inferior deploy numbers.

How is Android "winning" here?

Mind you, actual mobile search results implies "actual warm blooded consumers who bought the device and are using it" - it doesn't mean "devices we shipped to Best Buy and Tesco Lotus and that are sitting on the shelves".

Combine that with another known number - in the USA, every single mobile carrier is dominated by iPhone *sales*. In fact, each carrier sells more iPhones, than all the other smartPhone brands *combined*. Thus, while a given carrier might just have 300 iPhones in stock, and 3,000 combined Android models in stock - the 300 iPhones actually walk out the door. The Android devices don't. These are confirmed numbers from the 4 US carriers. 

Thailand's TRUE sells out of their allocated stock of iPhones in half the time they allocated for sales, and are constantly having to re-order. They keep 1/4 that many Android models in stock (again, combined all other manufacturers), and usually have to return 90% of that stock after their 90 days window. This was confirmed by the Deputy Director of TRUEmove, product management, in a recent meeting.

How is Android "winning" here?

Actual usage numbers - either of mobile websites, public wifi hotspots, in-flight broadband, Flikr most popular cameras, etc, or any other metrics that measure actual usage, generally show iPhones and iOS devices with usually 75% or more usage share. Why is that?

How is Android "winning" here?

So, just like all of Andy Rubin's other claims, his 900,000 activations don't mean diddly in the grand scheme of things, if Google can't even manage to extract revenue numbers from Android.(*)

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## harrybarracuda

> Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
> 
> Why the fuck would I want to piss around on that dull little brick of an iphone?
> 
> 
> technical challenge ? where is the fun in installing new versions on new devices ? anybody can do that, the real challenge is legacy devices with new OS
> 
> how about installing DOS on an iPhone


Probably run better.

 :smiley laughing:

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## harrybarracuda

> Combine that with another known number - in the USA, every single mobile carrier is dominated by iPhone *sales*.


Oh dear, look, more DaffyDuck bollocks.

He probably is only looking at individual phone models.

But more to the point, he's wrong.

Verizon's #1 selling phone is the Razr Maxx - because it offers LTE and the iPhone doesn't.

Other than being misleading and factually incorrect, he's absolutely right of course.

 :smiley laughing:

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## Cthulhu

(*) supporting links / facts:

The Verizon iPhone Outsells Every Other Smartphone in Q4 « Ron Offringa




> *Why is Verizon pushing the iPhone over the millions of Android phones that it offers? Because the iPhone outsells every other handset combined. Despite being offered 4G, multiple form factors, multiple Android skins, and cheaper prices, the iPhone outsold every other handset combined on Verizon this quarter.*


http://parislemon.com/post/16413547331/more-than-half




> *Every single Android phone that Verizon sells — dozens of models — combined could not outsell the iPhone last quarter. When you consider that Verizon sells plenty of BlackBerrys (and a few Windows Phones here and there) as well, this is even more incredible.*


http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/...ones-combined/




> *“In fact, we believe iPhones are outselling all other smartphones combined at Sprint and AT&T and selling at roughly equal volume to all Android smartphones at Verizon.”*

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## harrybarracuda

^ Oh dear, it would appear Quacky has not banned me after all and is studiously reading all my posts. What a Duckwit!

 :smiley laughing: 

Still, here's my version of a blog for you to read:




> *Droid Razr Maxx trumps the iPhone as Verizon's best-selling handset*
> 
>   	 	 		 			 			 				By Shawn Knight 
>  			 				On June 14, 2012, 2:30 PM EST 											
> 
>  					 						Comments 					 					1 				 
> 
> 
> 
> ...

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