#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > Health, Fitness and Hospitals in Thailand >  >  Gout - The Gout thread

## barbaro

I thought there was already a thread about Gout?  

This thread is about gout: prevention, causes, changes in your diet that have worked for your or supplements that have been effective or ineffective.  As most of you know I suffer from Gout and have tried to prevent and treat attacks in many ways.  I have reduced, but not eliminated it.

Here is a study I found that I'll post.  Anything you find please feel free to add here. I always knew that Vitamin prevented gout, but I didn't know the intake of 1,500 MGs had the largest results in prevention.

Article on Vitamin C:  Note the term "may," not "will."




> *Vitamin C may ward off gout in men, study says*
> 
> *Study finds that every 500 milligrams cuts risk of condition by 17 percent*
> 
> updated 4:09 p.m. PT, Mon., March. 9, 2009
> 
> CHICAGO - Men with a higher intake of vitamin C from food or supplements have a lower risk of developing gout, a form of arthritis from uric acid build-up that causes inflamed joints, researchers said on Monday.
> 
> "Vitamin C intake may provide a useful option in the prevention of gout," Dr. Hyon Choi and colleagues at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver said in a paper published in the Archives of Internal Medicine.
> ...


Link & Entire: Vitamin C may ward off gout in men, study says - Diet and nutrition- msnbc.com

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## good2bhappy

I quit alcohol for 5 weeks, it seemed to do the trick.

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## kmart

I've suffered from gout since my early 30's. (It runs in the family). Since the initial (and agonizing) first series of attacks, I've managed to self-medicate with relatively harmless drugs, baking soda*, and diet.

*Baking soda "alkalizes" your body, balancing your blood pH levels and stomach acidity.

Note; Some people can have very high levels of uric acid present in their blood, but never develop gout symptoms. It is how your allergic system responds to the presence of uric acid, or how it crystallizes around your joints..

Vit C is quite acidic and could actually raise your pH / uric acid..

A lot of websites are just trying to push their pharmaceutical "cure" products, and a lot of the supposed "Doctors" on those sites are phonies, too.
Going to a supposed Thai "specialist" in Bkk - Pattaya hospital just got me a shopping bag of the usual "commission specials" and the wonderful advice; "don't eat chicken". :rofl:  Utter bollocks.

This is the best help site I've found anywhere: I Cured My Gout

Gout is not a problem for me anymore because of the info at this site. :mid: . Really.

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## Marmite the Dog

> I thought there was already a thread about Gout?


I think it was in here.

https://teakdoor.com/the-teakdoor-lou...last-beer.html (My Last Beer)

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## Texpat

Isn't a goiter



merely gout



in the neck?

No, don't have either, but recommend a sharp knife a bottle of Jack Daniels.

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## barbaro

> I've suffered from gout since my early 30's. (It runs in the family).


kmart, 

Thanks for the response and info.  I got my first gout attack at 32 and have had over 200 attacks.  About 40 were acute.  Ankles, feet,  and a few in the knee.




> *Baking soda "alkalizes" your body, balancing your blood pH levels and stomach acidity.


So, you buy baking soda in the grocery store.  

What do you put the baking soda on?  I've never bought it or put it on food before.

Thanks in advance (and thanks for the info and link).

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## barbaro

To kmart,

do this?  (From the site)




> I started him on 1/2 tsp. of BS in 4 oz. of water and within hours he was feeling better.


Put a 1/2 Teaspoon into a 4 oz. glass of water?

Can one add more Baking Soda?  How often should one take baking soda?

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## good2bhappy

Baking soda is bicarbonate of soda
you could put it in a glass of water and drink it?

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## Airportwo

I don't suffer from gout but understand from some that do that Apple cider vinegar works well in controlling it?

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## Wayne Kerr

> This is the best help site I've found anywhere: I Cured My Gout  Gout is not a problem for me anymore because of the info at this site.. Really.


Cheers K-Mart. I broke my foot back in October. Doc aint sure whether the constant flare ups in the buggered is gout or normal healing and recommended I take gout pills. Not keen on letting the gout pills get in the way of my beer habit so shall give that bicarb soda a try instead  :Smile:

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## kmart

> To kmart,
> 
> do this?  (From the site)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> ...


Yes, Milkman. I usually take a half teaspoon in a glass of water in the morning, and a couple of hours before going to bed. Twice a day is usually enough. The website recommends more if you're suffering a flare-up of the condition.. Its a good idea to drink plenty of water, or maybe more than your previous intake also.
I have done this for over 5 years now, and not suffered ANY serious gout attacks during this time; and I can drink alcohol pretty much as I please (a lot of red wine is a no-no for me, though), and eat the foods I like; exercise; play sports; etc., without any pain.
My Dad in his time has seen umpteen specialists, paid through the nose for expensive treatments, and suffered kidney stones and lasting damage to his joints due to gout. I went home to see him a few years ago, and he could hardly fukcing walk.. I got him on this stuff (I printed hard copies of the website text for him and me Mum to refer to), and he has been given a new lease of life (cliched, but no less true) ever since. 
There is a lot of info and text on the site, but it is well worth reading up on and keeping excerpts with you when you're away from the 'puter. Good info on the uric acid content and pH levels in most foods / drinks also. Worth printing out for that alone. Give it a try and see how you fare.. :Smile:

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## kmart

> Originally Posted by kmart
> 
> This is the best help site I've found anywhere: I Cured My Gout  Gout is not a problem for me anymore because of the info at this site.. Really.
> 
> 
> Cheers K-Mart. I broke my foot back in October. Doc aint sure whether the constant flare ups in the buggered is gout or normal healing and recommended I take gout pills. Not keen on letting the gout pills get in the way of my beer habit so shall give that bicarb soda a try instead


Gout (uric acid crystals) tend to form easiest in old joint / bone injuries. I always used to get real bad gout in the ankle I broke when I was a kid, many years ago.

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## Wayne Kerr

Great site and pretty much sums up the stuff (plus a lot more) I've managed to digest from the typical "medical" websites. I'm gunna give this bicarb a try and if I don't end up shitting through the eye of a needle for a week I'll have to buy you a few beers one of these days  :Smile:

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## barbaro

> I usually take a half teaspoon in a glass of water in the morning, and a couple of hours before going to bed. Twice a day is usually enough. The website recommends more if you're suffering a flare-up of the condition.. Its a good idea to drink plenty of water, or maybe more than your previous intake also.
> I have done this for over 5 years now, and not suffered ANY serious gout attacks during this time; and I can drink alcohol pretty much as I please (a lot of red wine is a no-no for me, though), and eat the foods I like; exercise; play sports; etc., without any pain.


kmart,

Thanks so much!  I'm buying some Baking Soda today.

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## kmart

> Great site and pretty much sums up the stuff (plus a lot more) I've managed to digest from the typical "medical" websites. I'm gunna give this bicarb a try and if I don't end up shitting through the eye of a needle for a week I'll have to buy you a few beers one of these days



Done deal. :Smile:   Drinking the soda / water mix may upset your stomach for a start. Its best to drink it on a relatively empty stomach, and a couple of hours before retiring to bed, for obvious reasons.
The salt content is quite high, so if you have hypertension or other heart / blood pressure issues, you should try reduce your other salt intake present in other foods.
Every one is different, so just see how you go on, for a start.

Once the attacks have stopped, you could try taking the Allopurinol medicine instead of baking soda, this drastically reduces uric acid in the blood quite suddenly, but if you take it too soon after an attack it can precipitate or prolong another or existing attack. Dunno why...

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## Shipm8te

Have suffered with gout for years and tried all the home remedies.  None worked for me.  I now take 100MG of Zyloric daily and haven't had an attack in five years now.

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## Wayne Kerr

> The salt content is quite high, so if you have hypertension or other heart / blood pressure issues, you should try reduce your other salt intake present in other foods.


Ummm ... will keep an eye on the "_brud plessure_" and adjust the heart pills that the Thai quacks got me hooked on accordingly.

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## good2bhappy

^ what heart pills are you on?

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## barbaro

> Drinking the soda / water mix may upset your stomach for a start. Its best to drink it on a relatively empty stomach, and a couple of hours before retiring to bed, for obvious reasons.
> 
> The salt content is quite high, so if you have hypertension or other heart / blood pressure issues, you should try reduce your other salt intake present in other foods.
> Every one is different, so just see how you go on, for a start.


kmart, thanks again.

I bought _Arm & Hammer_ baking soda 2 hours ago and put about 1/2 tablespoon into tea and drank it before eating a light lunch.

I'll try it again tonight, before bed.  I had more than a teaspoon because I'm having a mild attack.

Thanks, and I'll keep you posted.

Do you think it's OK to have 150 MG of Allopurinol + a teaspoon of baking soda?

Can't hurt?  Right?

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## blackgang

A friend of mine has gout, and cherry juice helps him as much as anything and alcohol is supposed to be very bad for those with gout.

I wouldn't know as I don't have gout and don't drink.

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## barbaro

> A friend of mine has gout, and cherry juice helps him as much as anything and alcohol is supposed to be very bad for those with gout.


Yes, Cherry juice, and raw cherries are one of _the_ best ways to fight/prevent gout.  Check and make sure it's the right type of juice.

Yes, alcohol is bad, and last night I stopped drinking after my 3rd small can of beer, and went to water, after getting a sudden attack.  

Tonight, I just got home from work at 9:45 PM, and no beer (booze) tonight.  Water, and baking soda, and some _Indocine_ with food around 1 AM.

P.S. - I have already drank 4 1/2 liters of water today (I count it by checking it), and I'll drink another 1 1/2 before I go to bed tonight.

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## kmart

> Originally Posted by blackgang
> 
> 
> A friend of mine has gout, and cherry juice helps him as much as anything and alcohol is supposed to be very bad for those with gout.
> 
> 
> Yes, Cherry juice, and raw cherries are one of _the_ best ways to fight/prevent gout.  Check and make sure it's the right type of juice.
> 
> Yes, alcohol is bad, and last night I stopped drinking after my 3rd small can of beer, and went to water, after getting a sudden attack.  
> ...


1 week on, have you seen / felt any difference?

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## blackgang

I have a friend I was raised with and he has it in his feet so bad he can not wear anything but house slippers, no lace ups as they hurt his feet and he can hardly walk and when we went fishing the last time he wore rubber boots, but he thinks that booze is OK so he drinks like a fish and I talked to him on the phone last week and he still hurting and still drinking and no fucking way he will believe that alkie is bad, so fuck him, and the friend that don't drink no booze since we got sober and drinks cherry juice is doing great, and he had gout when I met him in detox and he was in his very early 30s.
and he has built a flat track on his place and him and his grandson and a bubch of other folks race flat track dirt races there.
Damn he don't even fuck with his hogs no more hardly at all, he got an Xcop 1986 FXRT a EVO FLH and an Xcop 1938 80'"flattie stock that looks like it came straight outta milwakee yesrerday.
and here he is retired and building and fucking with 200 and 300 cc  Jap dirt bikes.

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## good2bhappy

> Damn he don't even fuck with his hogs no more


Christ that is worrying.
Is that what happens when you quit?

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## blackgang

> Christ that is worrying. Is that what happens when you quit?


Quit what?  for a short rundown,, he quit drinking almost 28 years ago, his gout quit bothering him, then 5 years ago his 5 year old grandson wanted a dirt bike, so Terry built him one, he has a fine fully equiped repair shop for Motorcycles and has a dozen Hogs and many parts and it is a business full time since he retired, part time before that, he has built a flat dirt track on his property,
Now he just seems to be fucking with dirt bikes.
Does that expain it?

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## Topper

I use colchicine and voltaren .... will try the baking soda.  Thanks.  

I've found that as long as I take 2 pills of each every day I can pretty much eat or drink what I want.

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## good2bhappy

sorry got the wrong end of the stick.
I thought you were referring to screwing pigs!

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## kmart

> I use colchicine and voltaren .... will try the baking soda.  Thanks.  
> 
> I've found that as long as I take 2 pills of each every day I can pretty much eat or drink what I want.


I used to use colchicine after i had attacks, and it used to give me diarrhea pretty bad. :Sad: . 
I take occasional anti-inflamms, if I feel a "twinge" of gout coming on. The best (and cheapest here in LoS) for me are "Indocin" (Indomethacin; generic name). Although, using just 1 tspn of baking soda / day now makes this just on the odd occasion.
I'm pretty much gout-free now. :Smile:

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## Raffles

"Note; Some people can have very high levels of uric acid present in their blood, but never develop gout symptoms. It is how your allergic system responds to the presence of uric acid, or how it crystallizes around your joints.."

I have high levels of Uric in my blood every time I am tested at my annual Exec medical. I have had gout but its not chronic - maybe 2 serious episodes since 2004 when it first came on and a couple of v minor ones.

Some Dr's have tried to put me on allipurinol because of the levels but have refused - choosing to take Naproxin if I get a twinge.

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## barbaro

> Originally Posted by Milkman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by blackgang
> ...


Thanks for the follow up question, kmart.

I have been taking a minimum of a teaspoon of Banking Soda in the morning and at night before bed.

I believe it's working.  I have not had a tinge or problem since.  It's too early to tell, however, but I am hoping!!

P.S. I also stopped put 1 lime per day in my water, as you did note something about Vitamin C altering something in the blood.  (Acidic Levels?)

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## kmart

> Originally Posted by kmart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Milkman
> ...


Hope it works for you, Milkman. Vitamin C ups the acidity (pH) levels in your blood, that might lead to a gout attack... I take the odd vit C tablet supplement, but stopped drinking lots of orange / lime juice a while back without any effect to my health. I think a normal balanced intake of food will give you the C you require anyway..

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## barbaro

> Vitamin C ups the acidity (pH) levels in your blood, that might lead to a gout attack... I take the odd vit C tablet supplement, but stopped drinking lots of orange / lime juice a while back without any effect to my health.


kmart,

If I take a Vitamin C tablet/supp/vitamin, can it affedt the (pH) acidity levels in my blood?

Of is the affect of pH only with natural lemon and limes?


TIA.

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## kmart

^^ I think Vit C supplements are ok. If you drink a lot of the juices, especially orange; pineapple; and lemon juices, they can be quite potent triggers for an onset of gout.

Had a bad attack of gout last week actually, first time in a long while, after a long w/e of heavy (for me) drinking.  :mid:  A day of alkalyzing myself with baking soda and a few anti-inflamm's sorted me out in a day or so, though.

Self-inflicted.

Uric Acid & pH level chart of some popular foods:

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Food & Drink                           pH             Uric   Acid 
                                                     Average (range)
                                                        (mg/100g)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abalone                                                  112
Almond, sweet                                             37
Anchovies                              6.5               239
Apple                                3.3~4.0              14
Apricot                              3.3~4.8              73

Artichoke                            5.5~6.0              78
Asparagus                            6.0~6.7              23 (20~30)
Aspirin (325 mg in 25 mL water)        5.8
Aubergine (eggplant)                 5.5~6.5              21
Avocado                              6.3~6.6              19

Bamboo shoots                        5.1~6.2              29
Banana                               4.5~5.2              57
Baking soda (2.5 mg in 50 mg water)    7.7
Barley, whole grain                  5.2~5.3 (cooked)     96

Bean, black                                              146 (137~146)
Beans, French (string beans)           5.6                37 (20~43)
Beans, French, dried                                      45 (40~50)
Bean, Indian                                              83
Bean, kidney                                              30

Bean, lentil, seed, dry                                  127 (114~165)
Bean, Mung                                                94
Bean, mungo, seed, dry                                   222
Bean, soybean cured (tofu)                                68
Bean, soy                                                141

Bean, soy, seed, dry                                     190
Bean, soy sauce                                            6 (1~10)
Bean sprout, soy                                          80
Bean, Uzura                                               71
Bean, white, seed, dry                                   128

Beef, brain                                               75
Beef, brain, calf's                                       92
Beef, chest gland                                       1032
Beef, chuck                                              120
Beef, corned                                              57

Beef, fillet                                             110
Beef, fore rib                                           120
Beef, heart                                              256 (256~408)
Beef, kidney                                             269 (200~269)
Beef, kidney, calf's                                     218 (218~240)

Beef, liver                                              554 (333~554)
Beef, liver, Calf's                                      460
Beef, lungs (lights)                                     399
Beef, lungs, calf's                                      147
Beef, muscles only                                       133

Beef, roast, sirloin                                     110 (110~120)
Beef, shoulder                                           110
Beef, spleen                                             444
Beef, spleen, calf's                                     343
Beef, tongue                                             160

Beef, calf's chop, cutlet with bone                      140
Beef, calf's fillet                                      140
Beef, calf's knuckle with bone                           150 (140~160)
Beef, calf's leg, with bone                              150
Beef, calf's, liver                                      233

Beef, calf's lungs                                       147
Beef, calf's, muscle only                                172
Beef, calf's, neck with bone                             150
Beef, calf's, shoulder                                   140

Beer, alcohol free                                         8
Beer, Lager                          4.0~4.7
Beer, regular                        3.3~3.7              13
Beer, light                                               14

Beet root                            5.3~6.6              19 (15~21)
Bilberry, blueberry, huckleberry                          22 (15~40)
Blackberry                           3.9~4.5
Blueberry                            3.1~3.3
Brandy                                 4.1

Bread, wheat                         5.0~6.2              14
Bread, rolls                                              21
Broccoli                             6.3~6.5 (cooked)     81
Brussel sprouts                      6.0~6.3              69

Cabbage, red                         5.6~6.0              32 (20~37)
Cabbage, savoy                         6.3                37 (20~42)
Cabbage, white                         6.2                22
Cantelope                                                 33
Carp                                   6.0               160

Carrot                               5.9~6.4              17 (14~25)
Cauliflower                            5.6                51
Caviar                               5.7~6.0             144
Caviar substitute                                         18
Celery, root (celeriac)              5.7~6.0              30
Cherry                               3.3~4.5

Cheese, Brie                           7.1                 7
Cheese, Cheddar, 50% fat               5.9                 6
Cheese, cottage                      4.8~5.0               9
Cheese, edam, 30~45% fat               5.4                 7
Cheese, Limburger, 20% fat                                32

Cherry, Morello                                           17
Cherry, sweet                        4.0~4.5               7

Chicken, breast                                          137
Chicken (breast with skin)                               175
Chicken (for roasting)                                   115
Chicken, boiling fowl                                    159
Chicken, leg with skin, without bone                     110
Chicken, liver                                           243

Chicory                                                   12
Chives                               5.2~6.3              67
Clams                                                    221
Club soda                              5.0
Cocoa powder, part of oil removed                         71

Coffee, brewed                         5.5
Cod                                  5.3~6.1 (boiled)    109
Cola & clear soda drinks               2.7
Corn, sweet                          5.9~7.3              52
Crab                                 6.5~7.0             168

Cranberry                            2.3~2.5
Crayfish                                                  60
Cress                                                     28
Crispbread                                                60
Cucumber                             5.1~5.8               7

Currant, red                                              17
Dates, dried                                              35
Deer, back                                               105
Deer, leg                                                138
Deer, meat                                               111

Duck                                                     138 (138~153)
Duck, heart                                              147
Egg, Chicken                                              ~0
Eggplant (aubergine)                 5.5~6.5              21
Eel                                                      115
Eel, smoked                                               78 (45~115)

Elderberry, black                                         33
Endive                                                    17
Fennel leaves                        5.5~5.9              14 (10~16)
Fig (dried)                                               64

Fish, anchovy                          6.5               239
Fish, avalone                                            112
Fish, carp                             6.0               160
Fish, cod                            5.3~6.1             109
Fish, crayfish                                            60

Fish, eel                                                115
Fish, eel, smoked                                         78 (45~115)
Fish, haddock                        6.2~6.8             139
Fish, halibut                                            178
Fish, herring roe                                        190

Fish, herring, Atlantic                6.1               210
Fish, herring, Matje cured           4.5~5.0             219
Fish, mackerel                       6.1~6.5 (boiled)    145 (95~194)
Fish, pike                                               140
Fish, pike-perch                                         110

Fish, pedfish (ocean perch)                              241
Fish, paithe (coalfish)                                  163
Fish, salmon                         5.4~6.5             170 (110~250)
Fish, sardine                                            345
Fish, sardines in oil                5.4~5.9             480 (399~560)

Fish, shellfish, shrimp, brown       6.5~7.0             147 (60~234)
Fish, sole                                               131 (125~137)
Fish, trout                                              297
Fish, tuna                                               257
Fish, tuna in oil                                        290

Frankfurter sausages                                      89 (69~130)
Goose                                                    165 (165~240)
Gooseberry                           2.8~3.1              16
Grape                                2.8~3.8              27
Grape, dried, raisin, sultana                            107
Grapefruit                           3.0~3.8

Grass, viper's (black salsify)                            71
Ham, cooked                                              131
Horse meat                                               200
Kale                                 6.4~6.8              48
Kiwi fruit                                                19
Kohirabi                                                  25 (11~30)

Lamb, muscles only)                                      182
Lamb, heart                                              241 (241~408)
Lamb, kidney                                             195 (195~336)
Lamb, sparerib                                           125
Lamb, spleen                                             773

Shrimp, brown                        6.5~7.0             147 (60~234)
Leek                                 5.5~6.2              74
Lentil, seed, dry                                        127 (114~165)
Lemon, juice                         2.0~2.8
Lettuce                              5.8~6.5              13 (10~29)

Lettuce, lamb's                                           38
Lime juice                           2.0~2.8
Linseed                                                  105

Liver                                  6.8
Liver, beef                                              554 (333~554)
Liver, calf's                                            460
Liver, chicken                                           243 (243~645)
Liver, Pork                                              516 (516~548)

Lobster                              7.1~7.4             118 (60~175)
Maize                                                     10
Meat extracts                                            280 (160~400)
Melon, cantelope                     6.1~6.6              33
Milk, cow                            6.4~6.8


Millet, shucked corn                                      62
Morel                                                     30

Mushroom                             6.0~6.7              58 (55~215)
Mushrooms, canned, solid & liquid                         29
Mushrooms, chanterelle, canned,
   solid & liquid                                         17
Mushroom, flat, edible boletus, cep                       92

Mushroom, flat, edible boletus, dried                    488
Mushroom, morel                                           30
Mushroom, oyster                                          50

Mussels                              6.0~6.9             112
Neck sweet bread, Calf's                                1260

Nuts, almond, sweet                                       37
Nuts, brazil                                              23
Nuts, hazelnut (cobnut)                                   37 (27~42)
Nuts, peanut                                              79
Nuts, walnut                                              25

Oat                                                       60
Oats, whole grain                                         94
Olive, green, marinated                                   29
Onion                                5.3~5.8              13
Orange                               3.6~4.3              19

Oyster                                                    90
Oysters                                                  239 (Hong Kong site)
Parsley, leaf                        5.7~6.0              57
Pasta made with egg                                       40
Pea, pod and seed, green                                  84

Pea, seed, dry                                            95 (85~167)
Peach                                3.3~4.1              21
Peanut                                                   100
Pear                                 3.5~4.6              12 (2~17)
Peas, chick (garbanzo), seed, dry    5.2~5.9             109

Peppers, green                                            55
Pineapple                            3.2~4.0              19
Plaice                                                    93
Plum                                 2.8~4.5              24

Plum, dried                                               64
Prune                                  4.0
Poppy seed, dry                                          170

Pork belly                                               100 (80~110)
Pork belly, raw, smoked dried                            127
Pork brain                                                83
Pork chop with bone                                      145 (140~150)
Pork chuck                                               140 (135~145)

Pork fillet                                              150 (145~150)
Pork ham, cooked                                         131
Pork heart                                               530 (408~530)
Pork kidney                                              334 (240~336)
Pork leg (hind leg)                                      160 (150~160)
Pork liver                                               515 (516~548)

Pork, lungs (lights)                                     434
Pork muscles only                                        166 (154~166)
Pork shoulder with skin                                  150 (145~150)
Pork, sparerib                                           118
Pork, spleen                                             516
Pork tongue                                              136

Potato                               5.4~5.9              16
Potato, cooked with skin                                  18
Pudding, black                                            55 (37~91)
Pumpkin                              4.9~5.5              44
Quince                               3.1~3.4 (stewed)     30

Rabbit meat, with bone                                   112 (95~150)
Rabbit/Hare                                              105
Radish                                                    15
Radishes                             5.5~6.1              13
Raspberry                            3.2~4.0              18

Rhubarb                              3.1~3.4              12
Rye, whole grain                                          51 (47~63)
Sauerkraut, dripped off                                   16 (12~20)

Sausage "Bierschinchen"                                   85
Sausage "Fleischwurst"                                    78
Sausage "Jagdwurst"                                      112
Sausage, Franfurter                                       89 (69~130)

Sausage "Mortadella"                                      96 (79~130)
Sausage "Munich Weisswurst"                               73
Sausage salami, German                                   104
Sausage, liver (liverwurst)                              165

Sausage, Vienna                                           78
Sausage, frying, from pork                               101
Sausage, fryuing, from veal                               91
Sausage, German (Mettwurst)                               74

Scallop                                6.0               136
Scallop, dried                                           390
Seaweeds                                                 274
Seltzer                                3.6
Sesame seed, Asian, dry                                   62

Sheep's heart                                            241 (241~408)
Sheep's kidney                                           195 (195~336)
Sheep's, sparerib                                        125
Sheep's spleen                                           773

Shellfish, avalone                                       112
Shellfish, crab                      6.5~7.0             168
 Shellfish, mussels                   6.0~6.9             112
Shellfish, oyster                                         90
Shellfish, oysters                                       239
Shellfish, shrimp, brown             6.5~7.0             147 (60~234)

Soybean                                                  141
Soy, bean sprouts                                         80
Soy, Tofu                                                 68
Soy, seed, dry                                           190 
Soy, sauce                                                 6 (1~10)    

Spinach                              5.5~6.8              57 (57~70)
Sprat, smoked                                            804
Squash, summer                       5.2~6.5 (cooked)     24
Strawberry                           3.0~3.9              21 (12~26)
Sunflower seed, dry                                      143

Sweetbreads                                              825
Sweetbread, calf's neck                                 1260
Tea, brewed                          4.0~6.5
Tench                                                     80
Theobromine                                             2300

Tofu                                   7.2                68
Tomato                               4.0~4.6
Tonic water                            2.5
Trout                                                    297

Tuna                                                     257
Tuna, in oil                                             290
Tomato                               4.3~4.9              11
Turkey, young, average, with skin                        150

Veal chop, cutlet with bone                              140
Veal fillet                                              140
Veal knuckle with bone                                   150 (140~160)
Veal, leg, with bone                                     150

Veal, muscle only                                        172
Veal, neck with bone                                     150
Veal, shoulder                                           140


Venison back                                             105
Venison haunch (leg)                                     138 (105~154)
Vinegar                              2.4~3.4
Vodka                                  4.5
Wheat, whole grain                                        51 (40~83)

Whisky                                 4.0
Wine                                 2.8~3.5
Yeast, baker's                                           680 (589~680)
Yeast, brewer's                                         1810
Yogurt, min 3.5% fat                                       8

----------


## barbaro

^ Thanks kmart.

I'm trying to learn more about the pH and Alkaline levels.  

I recently used Apple Cider Vinegar for an attack last week, and the gout disappeared.  Maybe it was because of the Apple Cider Vinegar, maybe not, or perhaps it was related to it.  After the gout went away I stopped the ACV.

----------


## Little Chuchok

Started getting gout when I was 18 FFS! All to do with the uric acid levels in your blood etc. Allopurinol is the drug of choice....as it actually reduces the uric acid (_urates_). The problem with urates, is if they are of a high concentration, they can also cause kidney stones.

----------


## barbaro

^ Do you take Allopurnil, LC?

Also, a question for kmart, or anyone who can answer.

When a gout attack hits, should I avoid Apple Cider Vinegar and take 1 TSP of banking soda in an 8 oz. of water?

TIA.

----------


## slackula

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, but I think I have beaten gout (well for now anyway)
Warning: Tolstoy post ahead!

I suffered from mild gout for years in my early thirties but I thought it was arthritis or something so I ignored it (no family history).  I had sore (big) toe and ankle joints etc. I was working as a chef in Oman so I spent a lot of time on my feet, smoked and drank more than I should etc etc etc.

One Xmas when working as a chef in BKK I basically ate nothing but turkey sandwiches over a period of about 3 days and BAM! Full on gout attack with a lot of dislocation of big toe, second toe and third toe of right foot. Was the worst experience ever.

Off to the Doc and he advised to never eat *any* poultry again, gave me colchicine (with the proviso that it wasn't to be taken daily, just when an attack was coming on) and sent me on my way.

There is aparently a protein in poultry that can trigger the excess of uric acid and afterwards the precipitation of the crystals into the joint at lower blood temperatures (ie the toes).

This I did for a few years but I still suffered from the occasional full-on can't-walk type attack.

Then I googled colchicine and realised that the doses he had prescribed were way below what is prescribed for an ongoing attack, they were some sort of preventional dose I think, but I had never taken any sort of preventional dose; I hate taking preventional medicine. 

The next time I had an attack I started popping colchicine like hell, a couple of tabs every 20 minutes IIRC with lots of water and sort of saw off the attack, then I read up that colchicine can be nasty stuff so I looked for alternatives.

It turns out that for *some people* beans, legumes, lentils, peas, the little green things floating in a good curry, and extra vit C veggies can induce a similar reaction so I began to moderate (generally try to eliminate) my intake of those.

My gout was under control, I hadn't had any attacks for a couple of years (yay!) but I still had a swollen big-toe joint. Around that time I decided to lose some weight and get my marginally high blood pressure under control through starting jogging.

I bought a treadmill and started doing about 20-30 minutes a day, 5 days a week. Within 4 months the toe has reduced swelling and redness a lot and my blood pressure has come down to normal levels. 

I am now 4 years without a gout attack.

I still drink and smoke like hell though. I've gotta work on that. 

FWIW I am almost 43 years old, 6'1 and around 75 kgs. Hope this helps somebody because gout is hell.




/sorry again for a Tolstoy post.

----------


## barbaro

^ Thank you for your contribution, Slackula!

BTW, what does, "IIRC" mean?

----------


## slackula

IIRC= if I recall correctly

----------


## Classof64

I used to get periodic debilitating gout attacks, mostly in my feet.  Once while living in BKK, again in C'mai, couldn't walk at all .. both feet .. had to scoot on my butt to toilet.  

I mostlly drank beer .. so I quit .. about 7 years ago. Now I get a mild attack about once/year.

----------


## StrontiumDog

I'm curious to hear if the folks who tried the baking soda remedy actually all got better??? Did it work? It's been quite a few months now.

Never had gout, doesn't appear to exist in my family. Odd that it does so severely in some, but I can eat and drink what I like. I guess I'm very lucky by the sounds of it!

----------


## barbaro

> I'm curious to hear if the folks who tried the baking soda remedy actually all got better??? Did it work? It's been quite a few months now.


*Yes!*

Thank you, kmart.

I followed kmart's advice with a 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in water in the mornting and at night, and I _think_ it's been the reason why my gout attacks have stopped.  (Knock on wood.)

After so much pain and misery, and doctors visit I *may* have reduced this demon.

kmart also gave me a link to the best gout website I've ever seen, and I've seen plenty.

Kmart, I haven't seen you on the board here in a while, but many, many, thanks to you!!!

----------


## kmart

> Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
> 
> 
> I'm curious to hear if the folks who tried the baking soda remedy actually all got better??? Did it work? It's been quite a few months now.
> 
> 
> *Yes!*
> 
> Thank you, kmart.
> ...


Yer welcome, m8. Glad its working for you, too. I've been using baking soda (and black cherry juice, when available) for over 2 years now, and have been almost gout-free all this time with none of the side effects from the usual gout medicines that I discarded a loooong time ago.
 :Smile:

----------


## barbaro

*kmart:*


> Yer welcome, m8. Glad its working for you, too. I've been using baking soda (and black cherry juice, when available) for over 2 years now, and have been almost gout-free all this time with none of the side effects from the usual gout medicines that I discarded a loooong time ago.


I never did Allopurinol for more than one week.  I take no meds either. 

Do you take Black cherry juice for when only having attacks, or as a preventitive measure?

Cheers.

----------


## kmart

> *kmart:*
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Yer welcome, m8. Glad its working for you, too. I've been using baking soda (and black cherry juice, when available) for over 2 years now, and have been almost gout-free all this time with none of the side effects from the usual gout medicines that I discarded a loooong time ago.
> 			
> 		
> 
> ...


Preventative. I've been gout-free for a while now, and would rather be pro-active in keeping attacks at bay rather than waiting on one creeping up on me. There is also not too many places stock it outside Bkk and Pattaya. I try and keep a stock on hand and have a a glass or two / day. It works the same as the soda in keeping uric acid / pH levels down, and seems to be an inhibitor or natural anti-inflamm agent working to stop any uric acid from crystallizing on your joints.

----------


## DrAndy

> A lot of websites are just trying to push their pharmaceutical "cure" products, and a lot of the supposed "Doctors" on those sites are phonies, too.


hmm, same as here then




> don't eat chicken". Utter bollocks.


no bollocks on chicken

anyway kmart, good luck, seems like bicarb works for you

hope it works for others too

----------


## barbaro

^^ Thanks against kmart.  I am stocking Arm & Hammer baking soda.  I'll consider the black cherry juice also, but finding it may be difficult where I'm at.

----------


## chitown

Pssssst, Hey milky,

Beet juice and carrot juice when combined is excellent in the healing gout.


*Treating gout using Cherry*

 			The cherry, sweet or sour, is considered in effective treating gout. To start with, the patient should consume about fifteen to twenty five cherries a day. Thereafter, about ten cherries a day will keep the ailment under control. While fresh cherries are best, canned cherries can also be used occasionally.
*Gout treatment using Vegetable Juices*

 			Raw vegetable juices are used for gout treatment. Carrot juice, in combination with the juices of beet and cucumber, is especially valuable. Beet juice - 100 ml and cucumber juice - 100 ml should be mixed with 300 ml of carrot juice to make 500 ml of combined juice and taken daily
*Treating Gout using French Beans*

 			The juice of French or string beans has also proved effective in treating gout. About 150 ml of this juice should be taken daily by the patient suffering from this disease.
*Cure for Gout using Apple*

 			Apples are regarded as an excellent source for curing gout. The malic acid contained in them is believed to neutralise the uric acid and afford relief to gout sufferers. The patient is advised to take one apple after each meal.
*Gout relief using Banana*

 			Bananas have been found beneficial in the treatment of gout. A diet of bananas only for three or four days is advised for providing some relief from gout. A patient can take eight or nine bananas daily during this period and nothing else.
*Treating gout using Lime*

 			Lime is also used as a source in treating gout. Vitamin C is known to prevent and cure sore joints by strengthening the connective tissues of the body. The citric acid found in lime is a solvent of the uric acid which is the primary cause of this disease. The juice of half a lime, squeezed into a glass of water, should be taken twice daily.

----------


## barbaro

Cheers on the info on Vegetable juices.

I stay away from limes as they might make my blood more acidic.

----------


## chitown

> Cheers on the info on Vegetable juices.
> 
> I stay away from limes as they might make my blood more acidic.


Are you sure? I have a friend from Belgium that has 2 phds with one being in nutrition. He swears that if you put lemon or lime juice in a glass of water it causes your body's ph to go alkaline. Something about it producing alkaline ash even though lemon juice is acidic.

----------


## barbaro

^ Thanks for the info. I'll dig into it.

----------


## Bower

Having just suffered my worst bout of gout for 5 years, i am back looking at my previous diets.
I take Allupurinol but sometimes forget......
It was suggested to me by my doctor to keep a diary of foods to help find triggers, foods high in purines that trigger my gout.
I discovered that some foods could almost guarantee an attack:
Spinach
Shellfish
Smoked salmon

I have found the best treatment for me to date is, stop the Allupurinol, drink lots of cherry juice. Ask the wife to be my lacky and not attempt to walk more than need to, thus reducing the damage to joints caused by the needle shaped crystals that form in the joints of my feet.

----------


## good2bhappy

had it for a few days now

----------


## rickpattaya

Hi Babaro,
I am living in the Pattaya area and at the moment having a savage attack of gout. I am not sure which part of Thailand you are living, but can you tell me where you got the Baking soda. None of my Thai relations have a clue what it is.
Any help appreciated.

Cheers, Rick

----------


## jizzybloke

I've had a few twinges over the last couple of weeks but nothing much came of it... until today up until about 3pm i was fine but now at 10pm i'm in so much frigging pain I can't believe it  :Sad:

----------


## Bower

> I've had a few twinges over the last couple of weeks but nothing much came of it... until today up until about 3pm i was fine but now at 10pm i'm in so much frigging pain I can't believe it


You have my sympathies, i am into the 8th week of on/off attacks.
Back for more tests Thursday, Dr thinks its Rhumatoid Arthiritus in my ankles through constant gout.
It would seem my attempts at losing weight by reducing carbs in my diet have increased severity of attacks.
'It never rains but it pours' chin up !

----------


## Nice Guy

> I've had a *few twinges over the last couple of weeks* but nothing much came of it... until today up until about 3pm i was fine but now at *10pm i'm in so much frigging pain I can't believe it*


Jizzy,

As soon as you feel the "twinges" start your Counter-Attack.

Maybe these twinges came and went, but it could mean your uric acid level are elevated.  This means, some foods and certain drink can push your uric acid over the limit and you can have a full blown attack.

First twinge(s) -- counter-attack.

Signs of medium and full blown attack -- counter-attack.

What are you doing now to fight it, now that it has happened?

----------


## Bower

Found a year round way to take the cherry juice, www.cherryactive.co.uk

They run a mail order service, i will let you know how i get on with the capsuals instead of the juice.

----------


## Nice Guy

> Found a year round way to take the cherry juice, www.cherryactive.co.uk
> 
> They run a mail order service, *i will let you know how i get on with the capsuals instead of the juice*.


We need to know (via research) if the capsules are as effective as the real juice.

Yes, blackcherry juice is very hard to find in Thailand, let alone anywhere else.

----------


## kmart

> Originally Posted by Bower
> 
> 
> Found a year round way to take the cherry juice, www.cherryactive.co.uk
> 
> They run a mail order service, *i will let you know how i get on with the capsuals instead of the juice*.
> 
> 
> We need to know (via research) if the capsules are as effective as the real juice.
> ...


You can get black cherry juice in the Tipco brand "Cherry Berry", available in any large supermarket.

There is some good advice on the other 2 pages of this thread, especially regarding countering severe attacks of gout. Lot of info to wade through, but it will be to your benefit.

----------


## cojones

I would suggest Omega 3 fish oil capsules,coconut juice and uric powder for relief.In the long hall diet and  exercise .You will find this also helpfull for athritus....good luck

----------


## Tunaka

> Preventative. I've been gout-free for a while now, and would rather be pro-active in keeping attacks at bay rather than waiting on one creeping up on me. There is also not too many places stock it outside Bkk and Pattaya. I try and keep a stock on hand and have a a glass or two / day. It works the same as the soda in keeping uric acid / pH levels down, and seems to be an inhibitor or natural anti-inflamm agent working to stop any uric acid from crystallizing on your joints.


Kmart,

Since I have high blood pressure and want to avoid extra sodium, can I alkalize by using limes.  Squeezing limes into water and drinking it in the AM and PM, instead of baking soda?

Thanks if you can answer.

----------


## blue

good site on acidity and alkalinity of foods 
The Acid/Alkaline Foods List


*Extremely Alkaline* 

Lemons, watermelon.*

Alkaline Forming*

Cantaloupe, cayenne celery, dates, figs, kelp, limes, mango, melons, papaya, parsley, seaweeds, seedless grapes (sweet), watercress. 

Asparagus, fruit juices, grapes (sweet), kiwifruit, passionfruit, pears (sweet), pineapple, raisins, umeboshi plums, and vegetable juices   .

----------


## rickschoppers

Interesting thread, but being a pharmacist by trade for over 30 years, I always like to hear what works for some people for what ails them. In this case, it is gout which can be extremely painful due to the uric acid crystals that like to lodge in the joints. There is no need for me to tell you what causes gout since everyone probably already understands the culprit. Uric acid levels can very from person to person and severity of attacks depend on each individuals chemistry and biological make-up. What works for one person may not work at all for the next. All of the remedys may work for the a few, but not for everyone. I personally have arthritis and hypertension that may predispose me to gout. One of the best cures for all three (arthritis, hypertension and gout) is shedding a few pounds. If you find a remedy that seems to work, stick with it but don't expect it to work for others.
Pharmaceutically, Allopurinol 300mg daily is the stadard treatment for gout. This needs to be taken every day to keep uric acid levels from increasing. Colchicine is typically used only during severe attacks. It is a lethal drug if taken like previously mentioned every 20 minutes. I would not recommend that approach. There is a new drug that was also previously mentioned that appears to be successful in patients with poor renal function. It is too new to know if it should take the place of Allopurinol since Allopurinol can be reduced in dosage for poor renal funtion.
If you take anything away from my thoughts, it should be that a remedy that works for one will not always work for all, but might be worth trying to see if it does work for you. If it doesn't, move on.

----------


## kmart

> Originally Posted by kmart
> 
> 
> Preventative. I've been gout-free for a while now, and would rather be pro-active in keeping attacks at bay rather than waiting on one creeping up on me. There is also not too many places stock it outside Bkk and Pattaya. I try and keep a stock on hand and have a a glass or two / day. It works the same as the soda in keeping uric acid / pH levels down, and seems to be an inhibitor or natural anti-inflamm agent working to stop any uric acid from crystallizing on your joints.
> 
> 
> Kmart,
> 
> Since I have high blood pressure and want to avoid extra sodium, can I alkalize by using limes.  Squeezing limes into water and drinking it in the AM and PM, instead of baking soda?
> ...


Don't see why not. Try it and see if you get good results.

----------


## DrAndy

> Extremely Alkaline Lemons, watermelon.


Lemons always seem very acid to me (citric acid, of course)

are you sure they are alkaline?

----------


## Bower

> Interesting thread, but being a pharmacist by trade for over 30 years, I always like to hear what works for some people for what ails them. In this case, it is gout which can be extremely painful due to the uric acid crystals that like to lodge in the joints. There is no need for me to tell you what causes gout since everyone probably already understands the culprit. Uric acid levels can very from person to person and severity of attacks depend on each individuals chemistry and biological make-up. What works for one person may not work at all for the next. All of the remedys may work for the a few, but not for everyone. I personally have arthritis and hypertension that may predispose me to gout. One of the best cures for all three (arthritis, hypertension and gout) is shedding a few pounds. If you find a remedy that seems to work, stick with it but don't expect it to work for others.
> Pharmaceutically, Allopurinol 300mg daily is the stadard treatment for gout. This needs to be taken every day to keep uric acid levels from increasing. Colchicine is typically used only during severe attacks. It is a lethal drug if taken like previously mentioned every 20 minutes. I would not recommend that approach. There is a new drug that was also previously mentioned that appears to be successful in patients with poor renal function. It is too new to know if it should take the place of Allopurinol since Allopurinol can be reduced in dosage for poor renal funtion.
> If you take anything away from my thoughts, it should be that a remedy that works for one will not always work for all, but might be worth trying to see if it does work for you. If it doesn't, move on.


I take on board everything you have said here and would like to add that dieting can also bring on severe attacks. If i find myself putting on a few unwanted pounds, upping my excersise is the only way to loose weight without an attack.

----------


## blue

> Originally Posted by blue
> 
>  Extremely Alkaline Lemons, watermelon.
> 
> 
> Lemons always seem very acid to me (citric acid, of course)
> 
> are you sure they are alkaline?



no 
   like most people here , i can only go on what i read ,and the experts are always changing thier minds on whats good and bad ....
  ,i dont have gout , but  i am trying to eat more healthy diet ,as we seem to eat too much acid forming food at least in the west , the chinese may have it right with thier balances in life  ying and yang etc.

a quick search suggest - one site 
''A lemon has a pH of around 2.2; extremely acidic!
so how can it be alkalizing?
let's look at what ALKALIZING means. It means that after the acids are used up in metabolism, there is a net increase or alkaline minerals that is larger than the increase in acid minerals LEFT OVER. This is what forms your alkaline reserves, or more correctly, buffer.''

or the The Acid/Alkaline Foods List
goes into more detail

 A common misconception is that if a food tastes acidic, it has an acid-forming effect on the body. This is not necessarily true. Very often, an acidic-tasting food is alkalizing. Citric fruits are a good example. 
People say that lemons, for example, are "too acidic"; however, they are actually alkalizing because the minerals they leave behind after digestion help remove hydrogen ions, decreasing the acidity of the body. (Many people use the term "residue" or "ash" to explain the effect of a food on the body. A food with an acid ash  after digestion contributes hydrogen ions, making the body more acidic; a food with an alkaline ash after digestion removes hydrogen ions, making the body more alkaline.)   Another misconception is that acid-forming foods are "bad." This is not correct; acidity and alkalinity are opposites and one is not intrinsically better than the other. This misconception has developed because the North American diet is excessively acidic, which does result in health problems.

----------


## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by blue
> 
>  Extremely Alkaline Lemons, watermelon.
> 
> 
> Lemons always seem very acid to me (citric acid, of course)
> 
> are you sure they are alkaline?


No, you are right that citric acid is, of course, not alkaline. What happens when you push your body toward the acidic range by taking citric acid, it compensates by alkalizing the blood and urine as if you took baking soda. You are using the body's chemistry to push your blood and urine toward an alkaline pH. It is a little complicated and I don't really want to bore you with the details. 
A little more about taking baking soda to prevent or end a gout attack. I think everyone needs to know the down side of this home remedy so that you can decide on your own if you want to go down that road.

*Warning!* Baking soda may not be your natural gout cure. It *MUST ONLY BE TRIED* with your doctors approval since this could have many side effects including high blood pressure, headaches, appetite loss, nausea, vomiting, stomach pains and others. Baking soda is high in sodium, so cut down your salt intake as much as possible if taking it. Gout attacks raise blood pressure, and so does excess sodium.
Moreover people with heart, kidney, and liver disease, and appendicitis should not try it, without their doctor's agreement. It is contraindicated with some prescription medicines. Take too much for too long and you could get alkalosis._So speak to your doctor first._ It should not be taken when the stomach is too full. An empty stomach is better.

Your call in the end, but it is always a good idea to know the good and bad to anything.............no?

----------


## Tunaka

> Originally Posted by blue
> 
>  Extremely Alkaline Lemons, watermelon.
> 
> 
> Lemons always seem very acid to me (citric acid, of course)
> 
> are you sure they are alkaline?


Lemons and Limes are _metabolized_ by the body as Alkaline.  

So yes, they are alkaline.

----------


## rickschoppers

Incorrect........lemons and limes are acidic because they contain CITRIC ACID. If eaten, they will force the body to become alkaline, but they are not considered alkaline fruit.
Google it if you do not believe this and learn for yourself.

----------


## Tunaka

^ Thanks for the clarification, ricks.  OK, they're considered acidic but metabolization produces and alkalizing effect.

That's good enough for me, and I'm put 3/4 of a small lime into my tea with lunch, in addition to the 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in the AM & PM. 

I don't want to over do it, however. 

(Alkilosis.)

----------


## good2bhappy

The gout is coming back in my little toe (lft)
It has been about 2 years since the last bad episode.
Shortly afterwards my LAD Coranary artety occluded and I was rushed to the cath lab
Hope it is not a harbinger of a repeat of that!
Happy Christmas all.

----------


## cojones

I would recommend daily potassium citrate 1080mg 4x daily very cheap but need script also short term Indomethacin 25mg 3xdaily this medicine is a little hard on the stomach so be aware.

----------


## rickschoppers

^
If your take Indomethacin or any other NSAID like Ibuprofen or Naproxen, be sure to eat something first otherwise you will burn a hole in your stomach. I live on Naproxen Sodium for my arthritic joints but eat some toast, rice or cookies before taking a dose.

----------


## DrAndy

> The gout is coming back in my little toe (lft)
> It has been about 2 years since the last bad episode.
> Shortly afterwards my LAD Coranary artety occluded and I was rushed to the cath lab
> Hope it is not a harbinger of a repeat of that!
> Happy Christmas all.


 
are you still alive?

----------


## hanswurst

try animal flex from universal nutrition, it helped me big time with gout and associated joint pain. also take high dose multivitamins twice a day and 5-10gram vitamin c per day

----------


## alwarner

I'm far too low class to get this, old chaps.

----------


## Latindancer

Does anyone know if it is possible to have a long-term but low-level case of gout ?
I don't get "attacks" though. Does gout always come suddenly as attacks ?
I have been assuming I have the beginnings of arthritis, but there are a couple of things that make me suspect gout :

.....Pain in my right big toe joint....the same joint affected in gout sufferers. I have NEVER had any kind of accident to this foot. (Unlike lefty, which strangely remains unaffected by pain)
.....Although my back pain is in the sacroiliac joints, one of them was damaged in a bike accident when I was young. And gout can affect damaged joints first.

I have been taking an anti-inflamatory ( Celebrex, which is a cox-2 inhibitor) which clears up most of the pain in the same day. However this will reduce pain in both gout and arthritis.....
I am vegetarian and a non-drinker, so no purines there.  I do eat beans and lentils.........but not much ( at all in)  Thailand, so no purines there. I suppose I could have naturally high levels of uric acid.

----------


## kmart

> Does anyone know if it is possible to have a long-term but low-level case of gout ?
>   I suppose I could have naturally high levels of uric acid.


Best go and get checked first.

----------


## Bower

> Does anyone know if it is possible to have a long-term but low-level case of gout ?
> I don't get "attacks" though. Does gout always come suddenly as attacks ?
> I have been assuming I have the beginnings of arthritis, but there are a couple of things that make me suspect gout :
> 
> .....Pain in my right big toe joint....the same joint affected in gout sufferers. I have NEVER had any kind of accident to this foot. (Unlike lefty, which strangely remains unaffected by pain)
> .....Although my back pain is in the sacroiliac joints, one of them was damaged in a bike accident when I was young. And gout can affect damaged joints first.
> 
> I have been taking an anti-inflamatory ( Celebrex, which is a cox-2 inhibitor) which clears up most of the pain in the same day. However this will reduce pain in both gout and arthritis.....
> I am vegetarian and a non-drinker, so no purines there.  I do eat beans and lentils.........but not much ( at all in)  Thailand, so no purines there. I suppose I could have naturally high levels of uric acid.


Do you eat shellfish, spinach,smoked salmon,anchovies.........
Most fast growing vegetables contain high levels of purines.

----------


## Latindancer

I'm vego so don't eat seafood. But I do eat spinach and other veggies that are probably fast-growing.

Would it be a fast and easy way to tell if I had gout rather than arthritis by taking a some colchicine tablets for a few days ? Keeping in mind that one has to be careful of overdosing, of course.....
It just seems strange that the joint at the base of my big toe is affected as well, even though it has never had any kind of injury....

----------


## alwarner

^if you're in Thailand I have 8 colchicine tabs you can have.  i'll post em.

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## Bower

> I'm vego so don't eat seafood. But I do eat spinach and other veggies that are probably fast-growing.
> 
> Would it be a fast and easy way to tell if I had gout rather than arthritis by taking a some colchicine tablets for a few days ? Keeping in mind that one has to be careful of overdosing, of course.....
> It just seems strange that the joint at the base of my big toe is affected as well, even though it has never had any kind of injury....


Painkillers and anti inflammatory drugs have their place but nothing beats a correct diagnosis and proper treatment. 
I have had gout for 12 years, it is well controlled by the right drug and diet.
Guessing just prolongs the pain and allows damage to your joints.
Get that blood test done      :Smile:

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## Takeovers

> Painkillers and anti inflammatory drugs have their place but nothing beats a correct diagnosis and proper treatment.
> 
> ......
> 
>  Guessing just prolongs the pain and allows damage to your joints. Get that blood test done


Absolutely agree. The correct long term solution is not a pain killer but something that brings uric acid down to a good level. That would be medication plus some diet rules.

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## Little Chuchok

> ^ Do you take Allopurnil, LC?
> 
> Also, a question for kmart, or anyone who can answer.
> 
> When a gout attack hits, should I avoid Apple Cider Vinegar and take 1 TSP of banking soda in an 8 oz. of water?
> 
> TIA.


Taken it since I was in my early 20's.300mg per day.

Even a diet low in purines is not good enough to stop gout if you are susceptible to it.

The very worst thing about having high uric acid levels is getting kidney stones. 



The problem with gout is that many GPs know bugger all about it, although this is slowly changing.

The very, very best remedy for acute gout IMO is a steroid injection into the joint.Can last for weeks.

I already posted in the other thread about my experiences.This is what I posted.






> Could be Arthritis.Gout can also come and go.
> 
> My uncle had a study done on him by a Medical School Professor (over 5 years) because of his gout and because I first got it at a young age, he spent many hours describing to me the does and don'ts etc.He was also use by Auckland medical schools to describe the disease from a patiants view point.
> 
> The truth is that many Doctors in the western world know bugger all about it.It can be mild and it can be severe.Sometimes asprin works.Some anti-inflammatories work, some don't.I tried them all.Heat works for some people...ice for others.Everybody is different.
> 
> Blood test is number one though.
> 
> Stress can bring on gout...mental or physical.
> ...

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## Latindancer

> ^if you're in Thailand I have 8 colchicine tabs you can have.  i'll post em.


Thanks Al, it's kind of you to offer.  I'll p.m. you if I decide to go down that path. But it seems from other comments here that I should be having a blood test.....

Wikipedia seems to be a little contradictory on blood tests though :
*
Blood tests*
Hyperuricemia  is a classic feature of gout; gout occurs, however, nearly half of the  time without hyperuricemia, and most people with raised uric acid levels  never develop gout. Thus, the diagnostic utility of measuring uric acid level is limited.Hyperuricemia is defined as a plasma urate level greater than 420 _μ_mol/L (7.0 mg/dL) in males and 360 _μ_mol/L (6.0 mg/dL) in females.Other blood tests commonly performed are white blood cell count, electrolytes, renal function, and erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR).

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## alwarner

No worries - feel free to do so.

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## Takeovers

BTW the advice to take baking soda is not backed up by any scientific research. The idea to take something basic to counter something acidic does not work with the body chemistry.

As it is not dangerous you can try it though and if it relieves the pain good on you. I would still have the uric acid level tested and take medicine if so adviced by a doctor. No pain is not a sufficient indicator to protect  from long term harm.

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## kmart

^Scientific research is always backed by large pharmaceutical companies. They wouldn't want something so cheap and simple to work would they? Works for me and has done for a few years now, with no ill-effects so far. I can even enjoy a few beers now and again that I couldn't do previously. Certainly beats taking Colchicine and Allopurinol (both with potentially acute side effects) that the doctors dole out like Smarties. 
Lime / lemon juice also seem to work well.

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## Takeovers

> Works for me and has done for a few years now, with no ill-effects so far.


That's ok for you. But do you check uric acid levels in the blood? You should.

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## kmart

> Originally Posted by kmart
> 
>  Works for me and has done for a few years now, with no ill-effects so far.
> 
> 
> That's ok for you. But do you check uric acid levels in the blood? You should.


Yes, mate. Usually 2-3 times / year. I don't have high levels of uric acid though. I'm just prone (like my Dad, and other family history) to gout attacks after eating purine-rich food, or if stressed.

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## barbaro

After years of gout attack the only thing that worked - thanks kmart for your advice in 2009 - was baking soda. 

It's the first thing that worked after going to doctors to years.

Also: when I return to the US for 1-2 months every year I get one or 2 gout attacks.

I now firmly believe that it's because in the USA I ate a diet with lots and lots of acidic foods on the ph scale.  I now use a list of acidic and alkaline foods when back in the US.

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## IceSpike

Voltaren, Miracle cure for Gout...

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## Takeovers

> Voltaren, Miracle cure for Gout...


It is not a cure it may mask the symptoms. Which is very helpful in an acute situation. But if it keeps you from addressing the root causes it becomes most harmful.

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## joealx

Take Colchicine and Allopurinol(minimum dosage) until the pain is gone, then only Allopurinol (100mg) for the rest of your life.
Works for me. I couldn't take pain killers at the start because of ulcers

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## alitongkat

very acidic or very alkaline conditions in the body (blood, guts) are causing havoc on many things... so e.g. some enzymes aint produced anymore and the body changes pathways in metabolism...
what this means for the individual is much up on other "conditions" or genetic as well, also on nutrition, age, temperature/climate... etc...

i think it can be tested, if your blood is overly acidic or alkaline...
you should do, when baking soda helps...

if it is either, then its (imo) a clear indication for a viral, bacterial, parasitic infection or all of them... 
i havent read of another reason, why a body turns far off neutral ph (permanently)...
(its never always neutral but neither it is most of the time anything else, it even has to switch between acidic/alkaline to activate certain enzymes or deactive others... but when its permanently/most of the time dragged to one "direction", the body metabolism will change)

if there is trouble with acidic/alkaline blood, then find the cause...

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## youneverknow

Here's a clip on baking soda 











Allopurinol has some positive affects on blood pressure... 

Gout Drug May Lower Blood Pressure



.

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## alitongkat

there are acids (vinegar)
baking soda (alkaline)
and some drink baking soda in vinegar (antacid)...

its not always good... you might test, its not sure that you can tolerate e.g. acids or e.g. alkalines or antacids... means, each isnt necessarily "healthy" (for everyone)
its much hype about it, but dont expect it to be just something good (for you)

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## kmart

> there are acids (vinegar)
> baking soda (alkaline)
> and some drink baking soda in vinegar (antacid)...
> 
> its not always good... you might test, its not sure that you can tolerate e.g. acids or e.g. alkalines or antacids... means, each isnt necessarily "healthy" (for everyone)
> its much hype about it, but dont expect it to be just something good (for you)



Good advice, ali. Please note that baking soda is also high in salt, so people with hypertension or high blood pressure may need to consult with their Doc before taking it.

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## barbaro

> Take Colchicine and Allopurinol(minimum dosage) until the pain is gone, then only Allopurinol (100mg) for the rest of your life.


It's recommended to not take Allopurnol during an attack, because it can exacerbate it. 

The minimum dosage is 100 mgs, I believe.




> Works for me. I couldn't take pain killers at the start because of ulcers


If it works for you, then good on you.


*I have a gout update:* 

Starting on January 1, 2013 I started taking 150 mgs of Allopurinol.  I still take 12 teaspoon of baking soda but only before bed and not in the morning.

I have not NO problems. 

Yay!!

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## youneverknow

People with gout must avoid sugary drinks | Oman Observer

Sufferers of gout  might soon be advised to forgo sugary drinks to avoid pain and flaring  up of the crippling affliction, according to a New Zealand study.  Scientists at the University of Otago and the University of Auckland  have discovered a human gene variant that can “turn bad” when affected  by sugary drinks, Xinhua reported citing the study. It showed that when  the variant of the gene SLC2A9 behaved correctly, it helped transport  uric acid out of the bloodstream and facilitated its excretion through  the kidney. “But when people with this gene variant consume sugary  drinks, the apparent function of the gene variant reverses, such that we  think uric acid is instead transported back into the blood stream and  the risk of gout is increased,” Tony Merriman, associate professor in  University of Otago’s biochemistry department, said in a statement.  SLC2A9 is a newly identified urate transporter influencing serum urate  concentration, urate excretion and gout. “So not only does sugar raise  uric acid in the blood due to processing in the liver, but it also  appears to directly interfere with excretion of uric acid from the  kidney. This was a quite unpredictable interaction,” he said.



I kind of believe this to be true from recent personal experience having no had any soft drinks for quite some time and really overdoing it with them in the course of a couple of weeks. Gotta watch out for that stuff! I've got to get my crap in order because I am literally falling apart at lightspeed these days. I just can't go on this way.

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## Cold Pizza

Bumping and admin please merge the latest gout thread.

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## Latindancer

I agree....it would be great if you could merge them....if possible.

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