#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thai Visas and Visa Runs >  >  Visa Long Long Overstay

## Denatu

Its an old chesnut asked many times but I'm looking for up to date info. I have overstayed my visa by 10 years or more. I plan on turning myself in and returning to UK. I plan going the court route as opposed to paying the 20k at immigration. The issue is one of timing. If I have a ticket and turn myself in too late I may miss the flight. If I give myself ample time (eg 1 week) then I spend longer in IDC which is clearly undesirable. And if I wait till court deportation order to get ticket then there may also be delay in getting flight asap given I obviously want cheapest flight.

The question is how to time it.

1. Who/where does one turn oneself in to. Can it be done at the court so as to get a hearing immediately.

2, How much is the court likely to fine me.

3. What is the time between handing myself in and court appearance then court judgement and free to travel. 

4. Is it possible (I heard from fried in similar situation years ago) to pay tea money and get out of IDC then return to be escorted to airport. 

5. Anybody know of cheap lawyer who can help arrange so time spent in IDC is a minimum. The ideal would be go court in morning and fly out that evening.

6. Does the embassy offer any help in these case like the lawyer in above point.

7. Any way to avoid being blacklisted. 

I'm hoping for some definitive answers rather than "I would think" ones. Thanks in advance.

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## klong toey

> How much is the court likely to fine me.


The maximum amount for overstay if you have the money just pay it at the Airport .
If you cant pay and go to court you will go to prison and each day in prison will pay off some of the amount you are fined .
Not sure how much each day in prison is worth these days might be 200 baht could be more.
So you will be in the monkey house for quite a while.

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## toddaniels

klong toey; I'm calling b/s on what you just spouted.. NOT all that up on how overstay fines and stuff thru the court system works are you??  I've seen people with years of overstay go thru the system and get the overstay fine waived and be fined under 5K baht at the court before being taken to the airport to fly out.. Now i think there's an 800baht 'we take you to the airport' fee also but it sure as hell ain't the 20K baht overstay fine. Nor do the languish in IDC working off the overstay fine. Not that something like that hasn't happened but it's certainly NOT the rule that's followed. In addition to any other type of monger you may be, you are a scare monger!!!   

1-NOPE you can't turn yourself in at the court, you'd do that at IDC I believe.
2-WAY less than the actual overstay penalty (I've seen fines as low as 3k baht)
3-Once  you start the process you ain't gonna be "free to travel", you're gonna  be waiting to see the judge, get fined, get deported, get held until your taken to  the airport to fly  out.
4-Dunno, why would you wanna bribe your way out of a situation you can get out of legally.
5-Nope,  don't know a single "cheap lawyer", but I know you can be seen, be  fined, be held then taken to the airport to fly out all in the same day,  IF you plan it out.
6-Doubtful
7-Unknown
Those were as  definite as I know, but the P/M I sent you is for a guy who does this  type of stuff day in/day out and is a stand up guy..

Good Luck

O/P if you do have the 20K baht overstay fine, just buy a ticket and fly out. At present there's no black-list, banning sort of penalty for overstay other than the fine and the blurry stamp they put in your passport. You could fly back in later that day without problem..

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## terry57

^
 Nice info Todly, really good having your input. 

Ta.

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## Denatu

@toddaniels - Thanks for the helpful reply. I tried to reply to your pm but the system won't let me due to inadequate postcout. Strage I need posts for a reply. Regarding your responses.

2. Yes I've heard that figure oft quoted but the posts are old hence my quest for up to date info. It seems the fine is far less than the 20k so court is the route for me.

4. Its not bribing myself out of the situation. Lets say I go to court and my flight booked for 7 days later. I'd rather spend those 7 days at home then report back to IDC to be escorted to airport.  A friend managed to do this but how I dont know.

5. YES YES YES. The all in the same day is what I;m hoping for but the question is HOW to plan it out - hence my post.

AND .. not sure you're right about the no blacklist. I think they introduced that last year. 


@klong toey = the problem with paying at airport is firstly 20k is much more than court fine and secondly there is no guarantee they will let you fly. They could take you to IDC or court pending whatever then the flight is missed and flight cost lost. Its a big risk.

And I think you misunderstand the fina and prison time cost. Yes 200 Baht (or whatever) is deducted from the fine but for those able to pay the fine there is no need to stay in IDC just to work off the fine.

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## klong toey

So your plan is go to court because the fine there is less than 20k.
Pay your dues then fly out on the day of your flight but stay at your home until then.

You have no visa even after paying your fine so will be on overstay once back home.
Don't think the judge will give you a 30 day visa stamp after settling up your big overstay.
My guess they will put you in IDC until deported.

Go to your embassy in Bangkok ask their advice which will be to hand your self in to immigration  or at a police station.
Not sure about a lawyer would not be cheap if you hand yourself in who knows how long its going to be before your court case will come up.
To many unknowns to give precise advice.
If you do go to prison once the fine is paid off you will go to IDC until the day of your flight.
Unless release day from prison is the same day as your flight but my guess prison will take you to IDC and they will escort to to the airport check in,then will escort you onto the flight.
Your passport will be handed in to the purser on the aircraft along with some paper work. 
Once you reach you intended destination passport is handed back.

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## Davis Knowlton

Slightly off topic, but how can you overstay more than ten years? Passports are only good for ten years. If he had to renew his passport any time during that ten year period, surely the issuing agency will notice the overstay. Or, is his ppt also expired, in which case he's going nowhere fast.

Of course, we don't know his nationality. If he's a Yank, the above will be a problem. If a Brit, perhaps he might slide since I believe their passports are no longer done locally.

Just wondering.

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## Iceman123

^
Yep a bit more background would have made a more interesting topic/read.

Would be good to know if Denatu has any family ties that he may have to leave behind.

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## klong toey

^^If he is a Brit just get a temporary travel passport only last the one trip cost £50?.
If you lose/chuck your passport on overstay Thai immigration might just decide your an illegal immigrant.

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## buriramboy

You're fokin mad if go to the court or police to hand yourself in unless you like being banged up, as others have said if have a valid passport just buy a ticket and head to the airport armed with 20k baht.

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## Denatu

@klong toey - You seem to have problem understanding my post. My plan is to (1) turn myself in (2) go IDC - court - IDC (3) fly out.  Clearly I want to minimize stay in IDC so I'm not going to book a flight for 30 days ahead and spend 30 days in IDC. BUT if I book a flight for say 3 days after I turn myself in and red tape means I miss the flight then its a problem. The key is therefore in knowing/minimizing the timeframes involved. IF it were possible for IDC to let me stay home and report back on departure day then that would be a solution since flight date could allow plenty of time for red tape, I ask this because a friend of mine managed to come to an arrangement whereby he reported back to IDC. 

Of course judge does not give visa stamp. Hence me talking of tea money to IDC. And once its subject to court order visas are nothing to do with it. 

I appreciate you are trying to help but I was hoping for solid information not guesswork.   

@Davis Knowlron - I thought people could guess my nationality from "returning to UK". In the UK we can get passport renewals by mail.

@Iceman - Yes have family ties hence my question about blacklist. I plan to return hopeful with a clean slate. Think of it like a computer reboot to resolve problems.

@buriram boy - Immigration is a branch of police so what makes you think they are easier than IDC court. Yes airport would be an option were my overstay not so lengthy. But immigration could decide to hold me or send me to IDC in which case I lose flight cost. I appreciate your 2 cents but its not reallly an informed opinion is it.

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## Topper

Denatu - If you're being deported, all you have to do is show the immi guys your ticket, they'll call the airline and you're out on the first available seat on that airline.  They don't want to keep you any longer than they have to.

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## toddaniels

No, Denatu, you need to time your flight out and the whole go to court thingy so you don't have "free time".. They ain't gonna let you go home, hang out until your flight and then fly out. It don't work that way.. 

While I don't agree with what klong toey said earlier they are correct, that IF you have a ticket out and show up at Suvarnabhumi, clear the 20K baht overstay, you'll certainly be able to fly out without a problem. 

I just had a foreigner clear an 5+ year overstay not two weeks ago, he flew back to Sweden no problem, got a tourist visa and came back a week later.. 

Once you clear the overstay, it's true you have no extension but it's just like being stamped out of thailand if you leave on time.. From the time you pass passport control until you get on your plane you are visa/extension-less because you've been stamped outta the country. 

Having an overstay is not unique at all. There are TONZ of people here on them on any given day, and some live here for years and years.. What causes the "wrench in the gears" is getting caught out for some b/s other thing. Like a fight with your significant other where the police come, being stopped at a check point, wandering home half drunk, or other run-amuck stupid assed stuff.. That's when you really have to grease the wheels to get out of the jam you made for yourself.

I also concur with klong toey, I believe it is highly unlikely (as in ain't gonna happen) that a judge will give you any time between when you go to court, get fined, get the paperwork processed and get taken to the airport. You either time it right or you sit in IDC waiting for the flight.. 

Again, that's why timing is the key to getting thru the system and spending a minimal amount of time in IDC..<- and there is NO way around that at all.. 

Although I do know someone who saw the judge, got fined, got the paperwork, went to IDC, used his mobile phone and internet, got food delivered and then was taken to the airport to fly out and they did it in a single day. I think he spent 3-4 hours total in IDC.

The black-listing I'm not sure on, because I think turning yourself in going thru the system voluntarily and getting caught out and being forced thru the system are two different things entirely.. Again, I'm NOT the go-to guy on this.   

Davis Knowlton; when you renew an American passport here in Bangkok they don't care OR even look in your current (soon to expire) passport for a valid visa for thailand. That's not their job and possibly way above their pay grade too.  An acquaintance currently on overstay, just picked up his brand spanking new American passport last week.. No questions, no problems, no nothing.. The ACS division of the US embassy here ain't affiliated with thai immigrations... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## jamescollister

Don't know if this would work, but people do skip the country to Cambo and Lao,  an official/unoffical crossing near me. No passport required, just walk over to the market [Lao]  Fly out of Lao, or Cambodia, when returning to Thailand, play dumb, say you left years ago.
Chong Mek and other crossing only got computerized a few years back, pick one, say you left there, departure cards get lost, no compute record.

Question would be, how hard to leave Cambo or Lao without an arrival visa, seems lots of farangs wanted by police leave that way.

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## Denatu

@CSF Fan - I dont understand your post. IF I have a ticket and flight date how can they put me on first available flight. My flight is flight date on my ticket. Maybe you mean dont book a ticket, let IDC book a flight and just pay the money but they may not get best deal on flight prices. And if the cheaper flight is lets say next week I have to stay at IDC till then.

You like most others here have totally missed the point.  The question is if I book a flight what is the latest I can turn myself without risking missing the flight. Clearly I could give ample time - lets say 1 week - but that means longer in IDC.  Alternatively if I turn myself in the day before the flight and there is red tape and court schedule then I miss the flight and lose the cost of the fare.

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## klong toey

Just do it the easy way 20k at the airport.

What i don't understand is if you have the cash why do it the way you mention.

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## klong toey

> The question is if I book a flight what is the latest I can turn myself without risking missing the flight.


Only Thai authorities can answer that question if you want to do it your way turn yourself in see what happens then book the flight.
No problem with missing your flight then.

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## Denatu

@jamescollister - Yes I considered that option but the problem is nobody seems to know for sure. Even you, you live next to the border but you say "Don't know if this would work". The danger in that option is if you get caught before leaving then its a lot more serious and costly than turning oneself in volounarily. And officials near the border may well be headhunters on the lookout for farangs to check visa and if not in order collect their bounty !!
I want to returrn to UK anyway but a solution like yours would then allow me to book flight and leave without visa problems.
This is precisely why I posted. I am hoping somebody knows not guesses. I've looked at old posts on same subject but all come down to "I guess" or "maybe". Appreciate your trying to help though.

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## Denatu

> Only Thai authorities can answer that question if you want to do it your way turn yourself in see what happens then book the flight.
> No problem with missing your flight then.


I was hoping somebody here may know. I'll ask a lawyer and hopefully they will know. Then I'll post here and you will know also. Yes I appreciate that booking flight after court is an option but that may mean more time in iDC till flight date or more cost getting earlier available booking.

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## Topper

> IF I have a ticket and flight date how can they put me on first available flight.


The airlines help out by giving the next available empty seat to those deported.  You've paid for a seat and the airline is helping out the system here and a valuable customer like yourself by giving you the means to leave quickly as possible.

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## Topper

And I agree with those saying to turn yourself in is incredibly stupid.  Never involve the cops or courts if you don't have to.  I know from personal experience.

Go to airport with 20K in hand, get on your flight and that's that.

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## Denatu

> Just do it the easy way 20k at the airport.. What i don't understand is if you have the cash why do it the way you mention.


At present I am explorig options and to do that one needs accurate information. I have read that this route can involve risk. Airport immigration could send you to IDC/court. If you knew for sure then fair enough but you don't. You're assuming. I don't want to base my plans on an assumption. 

And if court fine is 3k I'd rather a night in IDC and save 17k,

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## Topper

> And if court fine is 3k I'd rather a night in IDC and save 17k,


Or conversely, you get hit with expenses like room, board, court costs, bribes to move your case to the top of the list, etc, etc.

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## thaimeme

> klong toey; I'm calling b/s on what you just spouted.. NOT all that up on how overstay fines and stuff thru the court system works are you?? I've seen people with years of overstay go thru the system and get the overstay fine waived and be fined under 5K baht at the court before being taken to the airport to fly out.. Now i think there's an 800baht 'we take you to the airport' fee also but it sure as hell ain't the 20K baht overstay fine. Nor do the languish in IDC working off the overstay fine. Not that something like that hasn't happened but it's certainly NOT the rule that's followed. In addition to any other type of monger you may be, you are a scare monger!!! 
> 
> 1-NOPE you can't turn yourself in at the court, you'd do that at IDC I believe.
> 2-WAY less than the actual overstay penalty (I've seen fines as low as 3k baht)
> 3-Once you start the process you ain't gonna be "free to travel", you're gonna be waiting to see the judge, get fined, get deported, get held until your taken to the airport to fly out.
> 4-Dunno, why would you wanna bribe your way out of a situation you can get out of legally.
> 5-Nope, don't know a single "cheap lawyer", but I know you can be seen, be fined, be held then taken to the airport to fly out all in the same day, IF you plan it out.
> 6-Doubtful
> 7-Unknown
> ...


Sound advice, Todly...
OT [even 10 years] policies still remain rather straight forward and pragmatic - that's if you have the cash readily on hand.
Maximum fines have not deterred over the years, as well.

Never ever proceed through the proper immigration/court system - being more expensive and headache.

Just go through Swampy immigration/passport control as one would do normally.
They are very business like - take you aside and you pay your fine - you're on your way......30 minutes tops. [no black listing - unless criminal associated]

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## toddaniels

You're fishin' for answers that the people on this forum just don't fucking have. Even what I know is sketchy at best and the rest of the tripe on this thread is nothing but conjecture, speculation and pissin' in the wind.  

Now this may seem like a stupid question but why did you not contact the person I suggested you to contact? Having just gotten off the phone with him and having emailed him this link so he can read your plight, I'd say he's the person to at least talk to. He deals with foreigners from all nationalities routinely with this situation. He's not some shady fly by night wink-n-nod, say-no-more person.

One thing I did find out is; IF you're goin' thru the system; as in turning yourself in signing the pink paper at IDC, going to court, getting fined, getting deported, flying out, you MUST use British Airways (because currently they're the only carrier to the UK which can't refuse deportees from England). You can't just buy any old, lay over here, lay over there, ticket.. The Thai Immigration office stopped that a few years ago when a Brit being deported back to the UK got off the plane during a lay over in india, and pulled a runner. 

Sorry to say Denatu, I'm finished with this one. You got the contact of someone who can, if not sort you out, point you in the direction to get sorted.. That you've not done it is on you... 

thaimeme; actually turning yourself in and going thru the system is NOT fraught with peril but if you don't time it right it is a fuck up as you camp in IDC until you leave.. Not to mention you're officially "deported". Now if you just show up at Suvarnabhumo and fly out you're just fined, "stamped as an overstay" and sent on your way. 

One last warning; according to a source, the British Embassy is telling people flying out on overstay who intend to clear it at the airport there is a 50250 chance of you getting out with just the fine.. I personally haven't seen anyone be hassled and I've held the hands of quite a few foreigners who wanted someone to go with them to the airport and get them thru. BUT, if you get an officer with a bee in his bonnet, who knows..

That's all I'm gonna say about that... <- quote from Forrest Gump..

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## thaimeme

> thaimeme; actually turning yourself in and going thru the system is NOT fraught with peril but if you don't time it right it is a fuck up as you camp in IDC until you leave.. Not to mention you're officially "deported". Now if you just show up at Suvarnabhumo and fly out you're just fined, "stamped as an overstay" and sent on your way.


Yep...

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## Bettyboo

I had a one day overstay once, they were very nice at the airport and never even charged me (ok they did, but only 500 baht).  :Smile:  Took about, errrm, 1 minute to pay the fine at the little nicely situated desk with pleasant immigration officials; actually, they are much more polite to you when you leave then when you enter, especially if you've just given them money.

Fundamentally, you may be lucky, you may not - I suspect that you could get all the info and advice you want then still catch the wrong official on the wrong day and get fuk'd over at either the airport or the courts, but that risk must be higher at the court (in Thailand)...

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## Denatu

I accept what people are saying but to be honest none of it is new to me or more importantly definitive, I had hoped that since this forum has been going for many years and many members here consider themselves Thailand experts that I could get a respeonse I could rely on. 

My misgiving comes from the fact opions here are contradictory and contract with opions in other similar threads here and other similar sites.

Obviously my goal is to minimize as much as possible cost, risk and unpleasantness.  To do this one needs to plan and to plan one needs reliable accurate information. 

I'll ask and check around

brw - the airport immigration route can be complicated if the entry visa not in the passport as is my case. I would still have my old passport so it should still be in there. 
Some people suggest going to immigration in Bangkok, paying the 20k and getting a 1 week visa, Then flight booking can be made.

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## klong toey

> And if court fine is 3k I'd rather a night in IDC and save 17k


Feck that's stupid.

Have fun.

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## Topper

> I accept what people are saying but to be honest none of it is new to me or more importantly definitive, I had hoped that since this forum has been going for many years and many members here consider themselves Thailand experts that I could get a respeonse I could rely on.


Trollin' I'd say....well done, sir!

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## Bettyboo

> I accept what people are saying but to be honest none of it is new to me or more importantly definitive, I had hoped that since this forum has been going for many years and many members here consider themselves Thailand experts that I could get a respeonse I could rely on. 
> 
> My misgiving comes from the fact opions here are contradictory and contract with opions in other similar threads here and other similar sites.


That's because nobody knows - Thai officialdom is rather erratic and as much to do with their emotions at that moment, the pressures upon them at that moment, the policy some bigwig Somchai decided to enforce that day, etc, as an actual law or process. Your 10 years here, might have afforded you that information... Have a pleasant day and please report back your experiences in the detention centre.

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## Denatu

@toddaniels - I'm not fishing for answers as such. I asked what I thought is not too unusual a question and merely hoped somebody here would have practical and accurate information, Aside from you, that seems not to be the case. It is as you say speculation etc.

I did email the person you suggested and the email came back as undelivered. I planned to phone him tommorow to ask for email. And yes he seems to be in a posttion where he would know as opposed to guessing.

I've only been posting in this thread to answer questions (that's politeness isn't it) and to point out the potential pitfalls in some of the suggestions.

Surprise about your British Airways comment but thats the sort of info I welcome and need to verify.

Yes thank you for the contact, thats the sort of help I was hoping for. 

And yes that's the problem with the airport immigration route. 50250 is not the odds I lik, especially when it means losing the airfare.  But on the other hand I dont know how much faith I put in Embassy advice. They are restricted in what they can say or recommend.

As I said I'll ask around, get facts then make decision accordingly.  Thanks again for your help.

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## navynine

Save yourself worry and try not too be cheap, just go to the airport and pay 20K and your off..............

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## jamescollister

> @jamescollister - Yes I considered that option but the problem is nobody seems to know for sure. Even you, you live next to the border but you say "Don't know if this would work". The danger in that option is if you get caught before leaving then its a lot more serious and costly than turning oneself in volounarily. And officials near the border may well be headhunters on the lookout for farangs to check visa and if not in order collect their bounty !!
> I want to returrn to UK anyway but a solution like yours would then allow me to book flight and leave without visa problems.
> This is precisely why I posted. I am hoping somebody knows not guesses. I've looked at old posts on same subject but all come down to "I guess" or "maybe". Appreciate your trying to help though.


No officials, no passport needed, Buntharik 2 border soldiers Thai side, couple of Lao customs guys.
I go over to buy cigarettes, no immigration police, just a border market in the jungle.
Give one of the stall owner some baht to take you to the nearest town, then on to the airport.
Shanta ou, pardon the spelling, everyone, Thai, Lao or farang, just walk back and forward.
There's another one for Cambodia near Nam Yuen, 11 years here and I or no one I know has ever been ask to show a passport.
It's a border soldier area, they wouldn't know what a visa looks like.

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## Dillinger

> the problem with the airport immigration route. 50250 is not the odds I lik, especially when it means losing the airfare


Buy a fully refundable ticket, although your problems it seems are brought on by a lack of funds.

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## Dillinger

> Give one of the stall owner some baht to take you to the nearest town, then on to the airport.


And how will he get through the airport with no entry stamp ?

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## stickmansucks

Are you totally stupid? Just go to airport and pay 20k then no blacklisting  !

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## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by jamescollister
> 
> Give one of the stall owner some baht to take you to the nearest town, then on to the airport.
> 
> 
> And how will he get through the airport with no entry stamp ?


That I don't know, but seems farangs have done it before, one I recall running from a murder charge.
Do they arrest you, then deport you, or just let you leave and say good ridden.

One for the Lao/ Cambodia forum.

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## Stinky

> I had hoped that since this forum has been going for many years and many members here consider themselves Thailand experts that I could get a respeonse I could rely on.


You've been given a wealth of good advice and still you want more, or some kind of absolute certainty? Well here's my two penny's worth, take you're sorry overstaying self down to swampy and hope for the best, chances are after the Bangkok bombing  you're fukt six ways till Sunday.  Have fun in the monkey house  :Smile:

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## toddaniels

> That I don't know, but seems farangs have done it before, one I recall running from a murder charge.
> Do they arrest you, then deport you, or just let you leave and say good ridden.
> One for the Lao/ Cambodia forum.


jamescollister, while I do agree you live in bum-fuck thailand, and are the go-to guy for a foreigner to farm rubber here as well as the guy with more problems from the thai in-laws and out-laws who live up there bleeding you dry, you might not have the best overstay advice for the O/P..

Let's say, by chance he crosses the border (which anyone can cross as it's more porous than the southern US border is). Then he's in what ever country (Lao/Cambodia) sans visa, sans exit stamp from thailand, sans entry stamp from that pissant shit hole third world country. Don't you think the fines and/or repercussions would be worse than being here on overstay and just trying to work thru the system? More importantly do you know (as in know, not heard) that it'd be easier for him?

I just don't see enough "visa related" stuff that you've posted which actually has any relevance other than anecdotally as in "I recall", "I heard", "I remember that".. 

I'm most definitely NOT throwin' stones but.. do you know anything at all first hand about this topic or are you just posting to up your post count? 

No respect is intended or implied :Confused:  errr, I think I mean no dis-respect, I'm not quite sure.. :Smile:

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## jamescollister

Todd, Aldhouse managed it, for a bit more then overstay.
As said don't know the rules in Cambo or Laos, but doubt they put an INTERPOL alert out for overstay in Thailand.

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## charleyboy

Couple of my mates over the years on long overstay, ticket in hand, nice smile to the officer, hand over 20,000 baht...No problem.

One friend was deported for a misdemeanor, had a child here and was blacklisted.
Advice given by a senior officer. Your crime was not serious, go home and change your name (he did by deed poll) Came back and no problems. Sadly, he died here a couple of years ago.

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## Denatu

@toddaniels - It's a nuisance not being able to reply to your pm's. I spotted the address error in the first pm from the second pm. An "i" missing in first word. Thanks agaian for your help.

@jamescollister - yes I'm sure there is a route there but without a roadmap it would be pathfinding in the unknown.

@stinky - Yes Ive been given a wealth of opinion. I'm not seeking more as I'm sure it would be more of the same. And following the bombing and impending drop in tourism I don't see the logic in getting tough on the farang. But if I do decide to go the monkey house route like a friend of mine did then later at least I'll be able to provide first hand information to others. Thank you for your kind input.

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## KEVIN2008

> Don't know if this would work, but people do skip the country to Cambo and Lao,  an official/unoffical crossing near me. No passport required, just walk over to the market [Lao]  Fly out of Lao, or Cambodia, when returning to Thailand, play dumb, say you left years ago.
> Chong Mek and other crossing only got computerized a few years back, pick one, say you left there, departure cards get lost, no compute record.
> 
> Question would be, how hard to leave Cambo or Lao without an arrival visa, seems lots of farangs wanted by police leave that way.


Yes...leave by "other means"..return home,lost your passport, apply for new issue, return to Thailand  :Smile:

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## cdnski12

I'm thinking Denatu is a load of Codswhallop. A newbie, way to much fishing for Visa Info. Smacks of Denaru sitting in a Thai Immigration Jail, desperately trying to fish in a few more suckers, to justify the existence of Immigration Bureaucrats collecting well paid lolly, for doing little tough field work. I doubt if someone who writes so eruditely, would be so incredibly stupid to overstay one's visa for 10 years? Surely some Thai neighbour or extended family member, would have already ratted him out to the local Police Chief, in order to escape a personal legal problem? Just sayin' ... Otherwise, I sincerely hope the Thai's slap Denatu in a traditional Thai jail for a few months of "diet restriction"; then deport him permanently. He's giving the Brit Expat Community a bad reputation.

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## pickel

> Todd, Aldhouse managed it, for a bit more then overstay.
> As said don't know the rules in Cambo or Laos, but doubt they put an INTERPOL alert out for overstay in Thailand.


Aldhouse crossed the border legally at Had Lek.

----------


## stroller

> As said don't know the rules in Cambo or Laos, but doubt they put an INTERPOL alert out for overstay in Thailand.


Of course it's no problem wandering around without visa or entry-stamp in either country - my mates in the pub said.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## FlyFree

There are no 'assumptions' made re airport overstay fine. Went through there a few months ago after a few years o/stay. Big counter, big sign, friendly welcome, no questions asked, quick process. Handed back my expired pp & ETD afterwards and inquired when I was coming back to Thailand.

Not too bad. Didn't offer me coffee though. Bad form.

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## nigelandjan

> He's giving the Brit Expat Community a bad reputation.


Thats exactly my take on it ! 

I hope he gets everything thats coming to him

Its because of dicks like this the rest of us have to jump through all those stupid poxy hoops + hurdles . 

and don't give me any of that old a bit harsh no sympathy bollox because I haven't

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## Stinky

> @stinky - Yes Ive been given a wealth of opinion. I'm not seeking more as I'm sure it would be more of the same.


Yes you are you've already said exactly that.




> And following the bombing and impending drop in tourism I don't see the logic in getting tough on the farang.


Even though they immediately and with no evidence implicated a foreigner, and what with you being a farang criminal too, it ain't looking too good for you so far.




> But if I do decide to go the monkey house route like a friend of mine did then later at least I'll be able to provide first hand information to others. Thank you for your kind input.


It won't be you're decision to go to the monkey house, you've already shown scant regard for Thai immigration laws, the smart money's on you going down.

----------


## hazz

Kudos for not saying 'a good friend of mine has overstayed'

This was about 3 years ago, so many things may have changed. But i did meet a chap in a similar mess to yourself, though many less years at the british embassy. from his experaince I would say that nobody can tell you wants going to happen because that is at the mercy of so many individuals at the embassy, immigration, the courts and the airline. if they all decide to make things easy for  there's nothing to it and if one of them decided to make it hard, then its gets unpleasant real quick.

If you are a brit, the embassy isn't going to help you with money... your on your own. what they can do if they think your a 'deserving case' is intercede with immigration when you do not have quite enough money to buy the ticket and flight. by deserving, still having your passport is a major plus, if you don't they assume you sold it and that puts you quarry in the feckless category.

ij  this chaps case they interceded with immigration and immigration decided on a fine he could pay after he bought his ticket home off them. he went down to immigration, paid for the ticket and was bailed until his court appearance the day before the flight.

on the day, he went to court, paid his fine and shipped to the IDC for the night. on the way the van stopped and they were let out for refreshments offered by the drivers (can of coke being 100B). When they got to the IDC they were all initially kelt in a  meeting room for the night.... until senior officer came of site, for whom they were put into the IDC proper. A rather horrid, place you never want to be in, where the images are very interested in having your phone and cash should you have any.

you will be taken to the airport for your flight, you will be kept in a room until you are about to board the plane. the planes captain has to be asked if he will carry you, a conivted criminal being deported, he has the right to say no even when you ticket says yes... if your are european air india is popular, if you are african you might be waiting 5 years for a plane to take you home

The chap flew with air india, he did not get his travel documents until the last flight in the itinerary and when he arrived at the connecting airport. he was detained by the police and marched to his connecting flight .

at heathrow he was collected at the plane door by uk police, and taken though the tunnels of lhr. he was processed into the country and dumped on the curb Heathrow, to make his own way to where ever he needed to be.

As for blacklisting, he was not. but that was before they anointed the blacklisting rules for overstays.

Personally, I would suggest that you have a chat with your embassy and see what your options are. paying the fine at the airport and leaving is a much better option of going to court... but then with a 10 year overstay, they would probably have the option of running your day by sending your to court rather than the plane.

Best of luck and try not to do it again

----------


## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by jamescollister
> 
> 
> As said don't know the rules in Cambo or Laos, but doubt they put an INTERPOL alert out for overstay in Thailand.
> 
> 
> Of course it's no problem wandering around without visa or entry-stamp in either country - my mates in the pub said.


OP has been wandering around Thailand without a visa for 10 years.

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## Seekingasylum

The chap is somewhat optimistic in hoping to find certainty where none can exist. 

One can only act according to the options and taking a position. 

If it were me, I'd check in for my flight and proffer the fine at immigration but I would time it so as to make sure the departure was late evening, rather than a midday departure - immigration staff are no different to any others and I shouldn't think an immigration officer on the fag end of his shift or on a night shift would make more hassle for himself with extra paperwork if it could be avoided. In the end, the OP is going in the right direction and provided he has the dosh and a little more to spare ( a bonus for the immigration supervisor, if needs be ) he stands as good a chance as any to leave without the IDC/Court/Deportation factors entering the equation.

Ten years without leaving the LoS? I don't think I could bear the prospect.

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## Dillinger

Disappointed with that theGent

I was rather hoping for a longer version of Nige's broadside, but with bigger words.  I even opened another tab for the dictionary. 

Do you mind trying again old chap?  :Smile:

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## can123

> If it were me



... the rest of us would be eternally grateful.

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## Phuketrichard

where did my post go concerning the new overstay rules?

i can understand u pulling the thai visa link but come on

there was also good info there.


ok
here without any link

*The  website of the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok has today (22nd July 2014)  posted a new announcement regarding its rules for overstay.*

*The  aliens who violate The Immigration Act, B.E.2522 by overstaying more  than 90 days in the Kingdom of Thailand will be forbidden from  re-entering the kingdom for a certain period of time as follow ;*

_Overstay more than 90 days forbidden 1 year_
_Overstay more than 1 year forbidden 3 years_
_Overstay more than 3 years forbidden 5 years_
_Overstay more than 5 years forbidden 10 years_

_In the case that alien is being apprehended_
_Overstay less than 1 year forbidden 5 years_
_Overstay more than 1 years forbidden 10 years_

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## Iceman123

> Originally Posted by cdnski12
> 
> He's giving the Brit Expat Community a bad reputation.
> 
> 
> Thats exactly my take on it ! 
> 
> I hope he gets everything thats coming to him
> 
> ...


Denatu would like to extend his thanks and appreciation to you Nigel, for taking time away from your important duties at The Samaritans, to help him in his hour of need.
 :Smile:

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## Dillinger

If he gets his order in quick, we could get him a nice signed and framed landscape of Phuket for his jail cell

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## Denatu

@toddaniels - spoke with your contact, he offered a practical route which meets criteria of affordability, plannability, certainty.  Many thanks for your help mate.

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## Topper

> spoke with your contact, he offered a practical route which meets criteria of affordability, plannability, certainty. Many thanks for your help mate.


What's the route?

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## Gerbil

^ I suspect the letters MV will be involved....

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## piwanoi

> And I agree with those saying to turn yourself in is incredibly stupid.  Never involve the cops or courts if you don't have to.  I know from personal experience.
> 
> Go to airport with 20K in hand, get on your flight and that's that.


  In Mar of this year A good mate of mine who had overstayed for well nigh 3 years  flew back to England , he just presented himself at the airport with his flight details and  told them he had overstayed ,they took him to a little Office and he coughed up 20,000 baht and caught his flight home no probs , I phoned him up the next day to see how he went on and he said that the Immigration were laughing and joking with him calling him a naughty boy and that was about it  :Smile:

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## BaitongBoy

> That's because nobody knows - Thai officialdom is rather erratic


I hope Denatu does come back and let us know what happened...Can he get access to TeakDoor from jail?...Heh...

Speaking of erratic, I heard one guy was bent over the x-ray conveyor in full view of the public and branded on his ass with a stamp of Popeye smoking his spinach through a corncob pipe...Other than that, he just paid the 20,000 and went on his way...

I thought it was kind of weird...Only 'cause Popeye's eyes were red and it said gunja on his tin...

Hope this helps, Denatu...Poor fook had to stand all the way home...

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## toddaniels

> where did my post go concerning the new overstay rules?


THERE ARE NO NEW OVERSTAY RULES.

Phuketrichard; a day late and a dollar short there aren't you? I took this pic of the giant signage they have at entry door to Thai Immigration at Chaengwattana on July 22, 2014, and the form we sign acknowledging these *imaginary* overstay penalties a good while back.


The reason I say imaginary is; in order to change overstay rules it takes changing the actual LAW, instead of how they change immigration rules via a Police Order.

The proposed changes have to be written down, debated on, re-rewritten into a law voted on by the house/senate (or what ever they call the thai parliament), then the Prime Minister would have to sign it, then it'd have to be published in the Royal Gazette, and then 30 days after all that it'd be law. It's NOT as easy as some wing-nut at immigrations with more power than brains thinking up a policy change..

At this time there has been NO change to the overstay rules.. It's 500 baht a day, it caps out at 40 days = 20k baht. If you stay 40 days or 40 years there is NO penalty other than the monetary fine to clear it yourself. 

Now as I've said over and over, it's NOT being on overstay or clearing an overstay at the airport when you fly out which causes a problems. It's getting running amuck and getting caught out inside the country for something totally un-related and then being found out to be on overstay which runs people off the rails..

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## piwanoi

^ I do recall that there was talk  about changing the overstay rules about a year ago , but that,s all it amounted to, talk , and of course what you write in your post is quite correct in every detail . :Smile:

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## Dead Metal

Earlier this year I was on a 3 month stay. On arriving handed my return ticket and passport. He stamped the passport and no I didn't look.
On arriving for my return was informed that I had overstayed by 4 days !
The twat had dated my exit for 4 days before my return ticket date ?
 My Thai visa for the 3 months was still valid for another 2 days on top of this 4 days ? Didn't stop them charging 2000BHT for the privilege .

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## BobR

I know I always say this, but if you can afford it, why not contact a competent Thai lawyer for current and expert advice?  

As we all know, very often in Thailand what the laws say and what's actually done can be quite different, and a well practiced lawyer would know how these are currently handled on a daily basis in the real Thai World. 

He or she might also be able to negotiate you a deal before you turn yourself in.  Also, since different offices of Immigration tend to handle the same matters in different ways (male up their own policies) there may be exit points and airports that are better to use and some that should definitely be avoided.

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## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> That's because nobody knows - Thai officialdom is rather erratic
> 
> 
> I hope Denatu does come back and let us know what happened...Can he get access to TeakDoor from jail?...Heh...
> 
> Speaking of erratic, I heard one guy was bent over the x-ray conveyor in full view of the public and branded on his ass with a stamp of Popeye smoking his spinach through a corncob pipe...Other than that, he just paid the 20,000 and went on his way...
> 
> ...


Jesus, you are one lame - assed prick.

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## Denatu

Let me conclude. The route options as I saw it before posting were:

1. 20k at airport. The simplest but far from certain. You are at the mercy of the official who, depending on the mood of the country and individual, may send you to IDC-court. In that case the airfare is lost or cost increased if changeable ticket. With bombing, military rule, immigration banging drums about getting tought etc. the is fair probability the current climate is unfavourable. People who suggested this route ignore length of overstay. Many here said throw the book at him and it only needs airport immigration to share their view and this route is stymied.

2. 20k at immigration Bangkok and 1 week extension visa. This offers the advanatage of no IDC and a week to book ticket then leave without hassle. Potential problem is that there may be higher chance of them sending to  IDC-court since no ticket (at that time) and not in the process of leaving like at airport.  If a lawyer, embassy oficial "facilitator" hand held then this may be route.

3. Visa run at soft border. But what is the soft border. Risk of headhunting police catching en route. Would be okay if a service was offered with officials playing ball.

4. Illegal exit of country. Similar to above but problem then comes in exiting third countary. Okay if there is a known route and contacts involved but without that its stumbling in the dark,

5. Turn into police-IDC and go court. This is sure route and fines far less than 20k. Difficult to guage times involved which makes booking ticket in advance risky in order not to miss flight. And clearly minimum time in IDC preferred. This was focus of my OP question. I was hoping somebody knew the process & times involved or lawyer.facilitator who could advise and assist.

(@ BobR - yes but then the question is who is a competent and affordable lawyer who knows his onions, or in this case mangoes)

toddaniels came up trumps on route 5 by putting me in touch with his contact. The contact has connections at immigration who offer a "12 hour service". 

a) inform flight date. Flight must be direct with Thai or home country national carrier.  Flight must be to home country.
b) send copy passport front page in advance so can check no warrants outstanding. 
c) report police 8am and taken to court 9am. Court is a fast 5 minute hassle free process. Fine will be minimum.
d) Same day escort airport and through immigration. (no handcuffs, no blacklist, no jail)

Cost for the service with fine is 15k all inclusive.  I'll update this thread from UK with findings and results.

Blue Peter badge for toddaniels. Thanks to those who tried to help. And to those wishing I'd burn in hellhole jail, console yourself with the knowledge I'll be freezing my nuts off in UK. Thais overstaying visas abroad is not uncommon. Some here take a righteous indignant attitude to cases like mine. Would be interesting to put their lives under scrutiny. let him without sin cast  ...

FYI - The reason in my case is that I plnned to leave before the 40 day overstay but something came up (or failed to). Once past the 20k my thinking was that the 20k (ie 40 days) was no longer applicable, it had become an offence. Like parking the car beyond the excess fine limit on the meter. How long are you clamped for ? The question then was how to get back on the right side of the law. There was no official information readily available on the net. Yes can ask a lawyer but my faith in lawyers is not high. There are 'facilitators' who could waive magic wands to make the problem disappear but there is risk of scam. Unable to find answers I procrastinated thinking I'll come back to the matter later. The changing official mood in Thailand with regard to tolerance for overstay prompts me to now address the issue. Ignorance is no excuse but it is a reason.

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## Iceman123

Great post, all logically the explained. Good luck!

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## Seekingasylum

Denatu, your literacy and apparent sound reasoning skills suggest an intelligence and education which I cannot easily reconcile with your immigration breach.

Without wishing to pry unduly, I'm quite curious as to how you managed to sustain yourself during your long sojourn here?

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## Denatu

@Seekingasylum - Yes I am eddicated and can write proper. The nature of my professi (contol systems) means I tend to look at what can go wrong and cover all bases to prevent or minimize the possibility of it happening. I worked in export then freelance software development. Later I started a company providing management systems services. Don't want to be more specific but that's a generic. 

As explained the original breach was far from intentional. The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry  Continued breach was due to not knowling how best to tesolve and procrastination combined with the mai pen lai mindset one can easily slip into here.

Your premise that intelligence equates to compliance is moot. How many people submit late tax returns, miss flights, get parking tickets  or even forget anniversaries. I guess the righteous here never do.   

 PS - I was going to explain procrastination but on reflection I'll leave that till next time.

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## Stinky

> @Seekingasylum - Yes I am eddicated and can write proper. The nature of my professi (contol systems) means I tend to look at what can go wrong and cover all bases to prevent or minimize the possibility of it happening.


Which would explain why you've lived as an illigal immigrant for over a decade and are now shitting kittens over the prospect of spending time in a Thai prison.   :rofl:   :rofl:

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## Dillinger

> How many people submit late tax returns, miss flights, get parking tickets or even forget anniversaries


By a decade ?  :rofl: 

Tell that to the judge :Smile:

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## Seekingasylum

Gosh, I didn't intend to imply any criticism although you have evidently inferred it. I'm just surprised you were able to manage so long whilst remaining illegally. Messing around with bank accounts, renting places, booking into hotels, hiring cars  and even going to a hospital inevitably involves the production of a passport at some point, according to my experience, so I was rather impressed that you managed to function for so long without evident mishap.

Remaining here for 10 years without venturing out is in itself no mean achievement and I must salute your fortitude.

Are you an eccentric?

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## jamescollister

> I'm just surprised you were able to manage so long whilst remaining illegally. Messing around with bank accounts, renting places, booking into hotels, hiring cars and even going to a hospital inevitably involves the production of a passport at some point, according to my experience, so I was rather impressed that you managed to function for so long


Immigration are the only people interested in visas, I get stopped every time I take the kids to school, army and police check points.
Photo ID, of any kind, on your way, hotels etc only check the photo page of your passport, if you have a Thai drivers licence, that's all they need.

Never carry my passport in Ubon province, never been asked for it, cross over to Lao, official/ non official crossing [meaning you can't stamp in, out] no passport, no ID.

Not hard to keep under the radar outside tourist areas.

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## Denatu

:UK:  I'm back in Blighty now and, as I said, will update the thread with my experience. I went the court route as explained in previous post. It went much according to plan and without hitch, hassle or surprise. It involved waiting here there and everywhere all day from morning till flight but that was expected. The immigration officials were courteous-friendly almost like tour guides getting people to follow them. They are dressed plain clothes jeans Tshiirt and no handcuffs. Total cost of the court route "package deal" was 15K including fine, transports. So its 5k less than the 20k airport routed with a day of waiting around on the negative side but on the positive the certainty of getting out on the desired date without risk or airport immigration causing problems.

In retrospect the airport 20k may be good for those with relative short overstay but given the length of my overstay and the seemingly "get tough" on overstay climate I prefer the certainity and plannability of the court route to putting faith in airport immigration. 

Once again, many thanks to toddaniels for putting me in touch with his contact, who was friendly, reliable and had the connections.
　
@tod - pm me your email address pls. Bloody yahoo won't let me connect to my email because I'm connecting from a different location. It wants to send a sms to my mobile which is in Thailand.

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## Topper

Glad to hear it worked out for you!

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## Iceman123

Well done Denatu. Always good to hear the final result - thanks

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## Dillinger

Hope it's fucking cold there you slimy bastard

Only joking, nice one.  :Smile:  

Did they put an overstay stamp in your passport or warn you about doing it again ?

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## Denatu

@Dillinger - Yes they put a stamp in the passport but I'll change the passport and the officialls at IDC assured me no problem to return., In fact they all assume the farang will be returning and far from warning you they welcome your return. There were 12 who arrived that morning and left that night so assuming akll were on the same "deal" you can do the maths. 

Perhaps the judge would have given the verbal slap on the wrist but we never saw the judge. We were all in court. 12 of us and about 20 thais in another group who looked like they were all from a company. Court officials there but no judge. I heard an official ask another where the judge was and was told the judge was still at lunch. Then in came court clerks. I exopected the judge to come but the immigration officer escorting us went to the clerks and asked "how much". Then plonked a stack of cash on the table to coiver the fine for all of us, got the papers stamped and off we all went. Looks like the judge wasn't going to cut short his afternoon session with Johnnie Walker at the restaurant just for us small fry. It's the thai version of trial in absentia only instead of the defendant being absent its the judge.

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## chassamui

When are you coming back mate?

That result was funny as f*ck

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## bowie

Denatu;

Thank you for the real, first-hand, first person, this is what actually happened account. 

Good luck to you.

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## kingwilly

Thanks for updating us and good to hear it all went well for you. Must have been a stress.

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## somtamslap

Slap-style is the way forward.

Bowl through immigration on the outside of six large award winning lagers with a small bag of Xanax on the hip - if things go tits up, you eat those fuckers for effect.

Clear up four-year infraction, and with a cheeky wink aimed at Lt-Gen Boonsuckerarder and his ilk, turn about face and strut down to gate 94 and an aircraft gloriously stocked with Fullers London Pride. Laters bitches.

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## barrylad66

great thread,good result :Smile:

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## david44

The great escape, well done

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## Stinky

Thx for the update Denatu even if it is a bit anticlimactic, it would make a much better tale if they hung you by your thumbs on a damp prison wall, maybe you can embellish it for the grandkids  :Wink:

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## Iceman123

^
Don't you believe it. Denatu is rotting in a Thai hellhole being tortured and anally raped on a daily basis. 
They got his password and are just enticing others into the trap.

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## Stinky

^ Now that's more.like it!  :tumbs:

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## navynine

Go to the airport

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## toddaniels

> Go to the airport


Christ even the british embassy will say you have a 50/50 chance of getting outta Suvarnabhumi without a problem when you're clearing an overstay, especially a LONG one.

Call them and ask 'em yourself..
Brit Embassy Bangkok
02-305-8333 <- may or may not work (NOT being a Brit I googled it)

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## thefactoryoutlet

I still don't understand except that it is so ridiculous to go to court to save 5k and few days in jail but take the risk not to be able to come back....









> I'm back in Blighty now and, as I said, will update the thread with my experience. I went the court route as explained in previous post. It went much according to plan and without hitch, hassle or surprise. It involved waiting here there and everywhere all day from morning till flight but that was expected. The immigration officials were courteous-friendly almost like tour guides getting people to follow them. They are dressed plain clothes jeans Tshiirt and no handcuffs. Total cost of the court route "package deal" was 15K including fine, transports. So its 5k less than the 20k airport routed with a day of waiting around on the negative side but on the positive the certainty of getting out on the desired date without risk or airport immigration causing problems.
> 
> In retrospect the airport 20k may be good for those with relative short overstay but given the length of my overstay and the seemingly "get tough" on overstay climate I prefer the certainity and plannability of the court route to putting faith in airport immigration. 
> 
> Once again, many thanks to toddaniels for putting me in touch with his contact, who was friendly, reliable and had the connections.
> 　
> @tod - pm me your email address pls. Bloody yahoo won't let me connect to my email because I'm connecting from a different location. It wants to send a sms to my mobile which is in Thailand.

----------


## toddaniels

> I still don't understand except that it is so ridiculous to go to court to save 5k and few days in jail but take the risk not to be able to come back....


Turning yourself in and going the court route carries NO risk of "not to be able to come back". 

There is a chance (however slim with lengthy overstays), that you're gonna get a persnickety officer at the overstay counter at the airport who wants to run you off the rails.

The O/P just decided it was the best route for him to go. What's hard to understand about that?

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## toddaniels

Just one quick thing as a further reply to 'thefactoryoutlet'.

You don't spend ANY time in jail, as in not a second and as I said there is nothing stopping you from winging your way right back into the glorious "Land 'O Thais".. 

In fact the closest you get to jail is the lobby of IDC. They have wifi, you can use your phone, order food to be delivered, etc. It's far from a hardship. You just 'hang out' there until they drive you to the airport to catch your flight.

Man, you've got your wires crossed or aren't firing on all cylinders.

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## sandy

My boyfriend phoned me yesterday at around 11 AM Thailand time when he was at the court place. We couldn't talk for a long time since he had to hang up immediately. He basically had stayed at IDC for two days by the time he got to court. And that was the last time we talked. In this concern, I'd like to know if he is back in IDC or was put in regular Thai prison. Basically, he couldn't pay the court for his overstay but he is able to fly out of Thailand. I've been waiting for him to phone me again. I really want to know if he is back in IDC or was put in regular Thai prison and how much time does he need to be detained before he can fly out of Thailand.  I really want to find the answers to these questions since he doesn't seem to be able to phone me again soon. Please let me know what you know about this concern. Once I find out where he is now, I'll be less worried.

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## Norton

Are you a Thai living in Thailand?

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## klong toey

No need to worry he is trying to let you down gently he is not in IDC or prison the butterfly has just moved on.

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## tunk

That 15000 baht makes overstay sound like a good deal. How much is 10 years worth of visa fees?

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## Loy Toy

If he doesn't have any money this could be a plus Sandy.

Probably you may find him sitting on the steps of his embassy tomorrow morning.

----------

