#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > The Family Room >  >  Beating your children

## dirtydog

I have just whacked the fok out of my son, well, not that bad as he aint down and bleeding, second time in 15 years, do kids need a good beating every now and again?

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## Camel Toe

Yes, they do.  But chances are good he'll become a beater himself.  One must have a heart to heart after a beating to re-assure him it was wrong to do it, IMO.

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## gjbkk

was there any reason DD did he do wrong?

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## DJ Pat

Never did me any harm, my Thai mum had a stick specifically for the purpose, my dad just used his hands.

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## jizzybloke

I got some good beatings, nearly always deserved them and as Pat says doesn't seem to have done me any harm.

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## Norton

> I have just whacked the fok out of my son, well, not that bad as he aint down and bleeding, second time in 15 years, do kids need a good beating every now and again?


What did he do?  How old is he?

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## Mid

parental corporal punishment is both valid and lifesaving  :Smile:

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## Norton

> I got some good beatings, nearly always deserved them and as Pat says doesn't seem to have done me any harm.


Left some nasty looking lumps on yer chest. :Smile:

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## keda

Nothing wrong with a smack, and I don't think kids are 'brutalised' by it or turn into monsters; more likely to develop into spoiled brats if they're not nudged into line occasionally. 

But much like a dog, if the kid doesn't understand what set you off it's wasted, so once the blood is hosed off the good dad should make a show.

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## melvbot

Cant say as I beat my kids. Plenty of wrestling style headlocks and slams, the eldest is only 6 though and loves it. My dad only hit me once, crashed my 18th birthday present into a bus stop, telegraph pole and junction box, might have deserved that one.

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## keda

> I got some good beatings, nearly always deserved them and as Pat says doesn't seem to have done me any harm.


Looks like abused kids end up preferring big boobs, eh? :Wink:

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## jizzybloke

I have slapped the hooligan a few times but he just looks at me and laughs with a look of "is that the bet you've got" and i have to walk away so he can't see me laughing too!

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## Gerbil

Nothing wrong with it.

But do resist the urge to give them a kicking when you've knocked them down. It's not a bar fight.  :Smile:

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## chitown

With today's laws in the US, my dad would problem due some serious time for the beatings he gave me! Helped to make me the man I am today!  :Smile: 

*Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car* *and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.* *

1957 -* Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal,           goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman. *

2008 -* Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse.            Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang.            State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers           being abused herself and their dad goes to prison.            Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

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## Wayne Kerr

My old man used to whack us with bamboo. When I was about 10 he made me help him plant some bamboo and told me it was to hit me when I fucked up. Didn't do much damage to me, we laugh about it these days. I never hit Wayne Jnr as his mother and aunt are much better than me at the corporal punishment stuff.

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## dirtydog

I did go over the top, he is as big as me and i whacked the fok out of him which was totally unfair on him, fok I feel real guilty now  :Sad:  a few weeks ago he was skiving from college and hitting the internet cafes for a couple of days, then today he said he couldn't rewire a plug, it annoyed me too much, he is doing electronics at college.

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## dirtydog

I feel like a real piece of shite, you don't punch kids.....

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## jizzybloke

can the family room be seen by guests or is it like members?

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## AntRobertson

Cross that bridge when I come to it, not an issue yet.  Would like to think not but bit hard to say conclusively right now.

But what I don't get is how adults who were brought up with corporal punishment at home and at school suddenly decided that it was detrimental to them.  Did they just wake up one morning and decide it had screwed them up or something?

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## ChiangMai noon

> I feel like a real piece of shite, you don't punch kids.....


especially for failure to re wire a plug, hope he can change a lightbulb or he could be well and truly fukkled.

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## dirtydog

I deal with stoopid Thais everyday, I don't expect my son to be one.

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## dirtydog

I have cuts on all my knuckles anyway so i wouldn't know if I whacked him hard enough to learn a lesson  :Sad:

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## Loy Toy

> I feel like a real piece of shite, you don't punch kids.....


You used the old telephone book trick did you DD!

A really good wack every now and then does any kid the world of good IMO!

Then again all I have to do with my youngest girl is raise my voice and she is heart broken.

Teachers have been denied this form of discipline and look what has happened.  :Sad:

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## Boon Mee

> I deal with stoopid Thais everyday, I don't expect my son to be one.


"As the twig is bent, so grows the tree"

A good smack when deserved is a reality check for 'em... :Smile:

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## ChiangMai noon

> A good smack when deserved is a reality check for 'em


how very republican.

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## dirtydog

I think I have broken my ankle as well, foking shite day.

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## Boon Mee

> Originally Posted by Boon Mee
> 
> A good smack when deserved is a reality check for 'em
> 
> 
> how very republican.


Actually, I'm 'Independent'.. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Norton

> I feel like a real piece of shite, you don't punch kids.....


Did the same when my oldest was 18.  An OTT reaction to a minor issue.  Think these conflicts between a father and teenage son often happen.  From all the posts I've read you are proud of your son and he seems a right fine lad.  

Good you feel like a piece of shit so will be easy to mend.  Simply tell him you over reacted and are very sorry.  Let it rest a few days and explain to him he is being given the chance to go to school and needs to take learning serious.  

Then show him how to wire a plug!

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## DJ Pat

I always deserved my beatings and took them like a man.

Which is what it turned me into, not some knife-weilding yob who can't throw two simple punches.

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## dirtydog

yep pretty sure it is broken, don't normally fall down when I stand up, got to admit the falling down was a suprise to me, it don't feel broken though, hurts a lot, but5 not that much.

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## bkkmadness

^^ But DJ Pat, don't you punch someone at least once a year?

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## Norton

> don't normally fall down when I stand up, got to admit the falling down was a suprise to me


Falling down from a standing position much more painful than your normal barstool altitude.  Must have been quite a surprise. :Wink:

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## keda

> I think I have broken my ankle as well, foking shite day.


a cuddle never hurt either, but can't be wrong to set him straight

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## dirtydog

I stood up and fell down  :Sad:  ok it aint broken, never had that happen before though, seems to be usable now.

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## somtamslap

At the end of the day its not like you were picking on a little kid like some of the tossers out there do..

Seems to me it was out of frustration...

Your only human, these things happen

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## keda

more likely muscular, if it was broken you'd know about it...good rest and a dose of tiger balm should have you up and kicking in no time

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## Gerbil

> up and kicking in no time


I believe that's what caused it in the first place  :Smile:

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## Chairman Mao

A kid... who's in college...

That ain't a kid.

As long as he knows that it was for fuking up his education by hanging out in internet cafes, and has learned that doing so from now on will fuk up the rest of his education it was the right thing to do... 

if he stops hanging out there because his dad is gonna fuk him up it won't do much, he needs to understand and learn how important his education is, and you need to motivate him to want to be learning about electronics rather than playing some virtual world game in the net cafe.

That'd be good parenting.


Don't take too much advice from me, I'm not that much older than him. And if my Dad came at me, I'd laugh... then floor him.

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## Nabeel

You are sick, in your own words "wacked the fok out of my son". Hope he sees what you are and leaves. There is no reason to do that to anyone - let alone your own son.

You do need some help, get it soon son.

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## Nabeel

Oh no left myself open to a red from the sad btards on this forum. Go on, come round and give me a red - the best an uneducated man can do, is strike out.

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## Rural Surin

> I have just whacked the fok out of my son, well, not that bad as he aint down and bleeding, second time in 15 years, do kids need a good beating every now and again?


Probably isn't necessary. You might explore your violent and angry side. :Dunno:

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## jizzybloke

Kids will test your limitations and then try to take a bit more it's up to you how you react, is giving them a slap or a hiding the answer?

Only you know the answer to that!

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## andy55

in a few years time d/d he will give you a good hiding /seeing too
 what comes around goes around mate 
 your in for a good beating for exacting your violence on the lad -- 
 another red ?
 asif i give a fcuk

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## Propagator

> There is no reason to do that to anyone - let alone your own son.


Wondered when a member of the anti punishment brigade would arrive  :Sad:

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## Nabeel

Not at all Propagator. Just someone who has kids, loves them and understands, that my expectations are not always theirs.

Punishment to you seems to mean the use of hands etc. You also need some help in your issues.

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## DrivingForce

> I feel like a real piece of shite, you don't punch kids.....


closed fist might be a bit OTT.....  :Sad:  

surprised to see so many fellow child abusers here..... :Smile:   :Tounge In Cheek: 

We had a row of Australian pines along side our house it was an endless supply of switches and the worst thing was my mom always made us pick our own  :Sad: . she used to strip off most of the larger branches to reduce the wind resistance for maximum effectiveness but left the little "cat-o-nine-tails" on the end to create some pretty good little welts on the back of your legs, if it broke and she wasn't done you didn't pick a good enough one and you got a few extra smacks with the second one...  :Sad:  

I know we deserved it most of the time....

I do spank my boys, try to make it for good reasons, and I've gone OTT in my eyes a couple of times and the feeling does suck, (no blood or bruises or anything like that) the real trick is trying not to make it about anger and more about discipline, though that is very tough to do at that moment. so I always try to take a step back and deep breath if that's possible before the spanking, sometimes just that makes me think of another way to address it, especially if it's not as serious as originally viewed..

BTW DJ maybe that has some accounting for your anal fetish...  :Smile:

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## Chairman Mao

> Originally Posted by Nabeel
> 
> There is no reason to do that to anyone - let alone your own son.
> 
> 
> Wondered when a member of the anti punishment brigade would arrive


Bollox.

He fuked off from school so he could piss up his life in a net cafe, then as a result he couldn't wire a plug.

Ok, tell he's got 24 hrs to learn how to do it.

If he can't do it by then, he doesn't get any pocket money for 2 weeks (or whatever)

Then, as he can't be trusted, you're gonna check up if he's going to school or not... everyday. If he misses one day, no money for one week.

Then get involved in his studies in a fun manner... motivate him to enjoy what he does.


I'm not a parent but that seems like an ok way to deal it to me.

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## hillbilly

Since I am currently in the states, I communicate with my family using Skype. The other day, the wife was fed up with the daughter and wanted me talk to her.

When I chastised my daughter, she replied "You can't do anything to me right now, he-he", I wanted to reach through the computer screen and throttle her neck. 

I reminded her that she was coming over soon!  :Smile: 

Sometimes a smack on the butt don't hurt. Sorta gets their attention.

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## Propagator

> Punishment to you seems to mean the use of hands etc. You also need some help in your issues.


Not necessarily so, punishment in deprivation of priveleges etc may also be effective, but when this does not happen, then a slap usually reminds better.
Got a few good cuffs when I was a nipper and it never done me any harm.

Maybe you are going to educate me on my issues.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):    When I need some help I will sure ask for you.

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## English Noodles

So at what age is it acceptable to beat your children up - what is the maximum acceptable injury you feel justified to inflict - where is the line drawn?

Bullshit! You don't _'beat the fok out of your children'_.

*Dad Snapped Baby Daughter's Spine* 

4:35pm UK, Friday October 24, 2008 
*A father who murdered his 16-month-old daughter by snapping her spine has been jailed for life.*




James Howson, 25, was told he must serve at least 22 years.

He had been found guilty of murdering his daughter Amy earlier this week after a trial at Leeds Crown Court.

Amy's mother, Tina Hunt, 26, was given a 12-month suspended sentence for allowing the death of a child and child cruelty. She admitted the charges.

Sentencing Howson, the judge, Mrs Justice Cox, recounted how the defendant placed his daughter over his knee or other object and broke her back at their home while he was looking after her.

He then sat with her body until the morning.

The judge said: "This was, in my view, a chilling and brutal attack. The bone was completely dislocated, resulting in spinal shock, rapid unconsciousness - mercifully - and to death."

*The judge also detailed other occasions in the weeks leading up to the murder in December last year when Howson "cruelly and deliberately assaulted Amy", leaving her with multiple fractures to her arms and legs.*

Howson showed no emotion as he was led from the dock.

The judge said to him: "I have not seen the slightest evidence of remorse from you for what you did."

The court had heard that the youngster, who was malnourished and dehydrated, had also been slapped and punched in the months leading up to her death.

Howson had a troubled history and had been violent towards women when he was young. Yet he had no previous convictions.

Adrian Waterman QC, defending, described how when Howson was expelled from school as a teenager, a teacher noted in a report: "This boy will commit a murder before too long. I've never seen a such a disturbed young man."

The jury was told Howson was looking after the little girl last December because her mother had morning sickness.

At the time of Amy's death, Hunt was 12 weeks pregnant. Howson said it was possible his partner might have been responsible.

The court heard that in the months before Amy died, health visitors had twice gone to the family's home but her parents had refused to let them in.

Doncaster Primary Care Trust will now have an independent review to find out what happened.

Amy's maternal grandfather, Colin, said the sentence is not enough.
"He could be locked up for 30 or 40 years but he is living. She is dead. It's all wrong.

"It makes you wonder what makes people do that. You think you know them but you don't."

Baby&#039;s Spine Snapped: Father James Howson Jailed For Life For Murdering Daughter Amy | UK News | Sky News

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## DrivingForce

> So at what age is it acceptable to beat your children up - what is the maximum acceptable injury you feel justified to inflict - where is the line drawn?
> 
> Bullshit! You don't _'beat the fok out of your children'_.
> 
> *Dad Snapped Baby Daughter's Spine* 
> 
> 4:35pm UK, Friday October 24, 2008 
> *A father who murdered his 16-month-old daughter by snapping her spine has been jailed for life.*
> 
> ...


really poor example..that ain't discipline it's murder.. far cry... I've seen how hard my boys have to bash themselves or each other just to get a bruise so it goes without saying, this is way OTT.. 

And he looks the part too...  :Sad:

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## English Noodles

> really poor example..that ain't discipline it's murder.. far cry... I've seen how hard my boys have to bash themselves or each other just to get a bruise so it goes without saying, this is way OTT.. And he looks the part too...


You failed to address every one of the three questions asked at the start of my post.






> So at what age is it acceptable to beat your children up - what is the maximum acceptable injury you feel justified to inflict - where is the line drawn?

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## Mr Pot

This thread is a foking real foking king if approached rightly.  I was a right foking tearaway - still have my rebellious instincts from before.  The reason I'm in Thailand was because I got in a fight with my old man who was fed up at me pissing off the old dear of a mother; I came home pissed and upset my old dear over something mundane, old man came in foking angry and tried to slap me about.  Took me 22 years to get the guts to slap him back harder and I really did.

However all the times he disiplined me by kicking fok out of me I was in the WRONG.  My old man is a real clever fok, has restored cars, bikes plus built the house, electricity, plumbing even the archietecture whilst running his own business; even though he has foking taught me lessons with the hard discipline I'll always admire him but will always find it hard to tell him for him to believe.

I left England in the middle of the night, my brother and Sister didn't know 
I was off; only my mom knew.  I have my own family now and really understand why my parents were so stressed but yet I took so much for granted.

Tough posistion DD but one good kicking is fine; you only want the best for your son it's natural; it never did me harm for myself, I am extremley thick skinned now.  Just balance it support fully when your lad has something to gain, and punish accordingly when he acts like a twat

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## Mr Pot

Beating your children 27-10-2008 02:52 AM astasinim Good advice
 Beating your children 27-10-2008 02:38 AM hillbilly

I'm only 26 years old; I've learned alot, just keep them in the right direction, sorry to be pretentious and posting repo in the wrong spot, really good thread for discussion and I'm chuffed of my greens

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## nedwalk

my mother slapped my face once, i was 14 years of age, i still feel the pain of the humiliation more than the pain of the slap, i deserved it absolutely, for me to drive my dear old mum to that point of frustration, oh yes i deserved it and yes i still remember it and yes it woke me up to what an arse i was being, an open hand slap will not hurt but the emotional fact of when it comes, is the reality check that some kids need imo, as for a clenched fist, no DD, i,m sorry not my stile on my kids, i rckon a backhander would have worked better, good luck mate, teenagers are a right pain

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## Rural Surin

> I deal with stoopid Thais everyday, I don't expect my son to be one.


Your son deals with stupid Farang everyday, should you expect your son to be one? By the way.....do you beat on your wife as well? You must be looked upon as a pillar in the community.

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## Rural Surin

> So at what age is it acceptable to beat your children up - what is the maximum acceptable injury you feel justified to inflict - where is the line drawn?


[/quote]
Never expect these apologist to respond. They don't understand their character. It's a very rare occasion that Thais beat on their children, though you'll find these cretons throughout this forum scramble to bring examples to attention of those whom need comparatives. This is rare. It's not in their nature. However, it is the nature and instinct of Westerners, as such. I wonder if the Dog would go back and read what he writes.....doesn't want his son to be around stupid Thais. Doesn't want him to be a stupid Thai. That's great - be like me instead.

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## keda

> You are sick, in your own words "wacked the fok out of my son". Hope he sees what you are and leaves. There is no reason to do that to anyone - let alone your own son.
> 
> You do need some help, get it soon son.


Bollix, _wacked the fok_ is nothing more than an expression and none of us was there so we don't know the background, but the best parent with the best intentions will always make mistakes - which does not mean in this instance it was wrong, or right, only that's the way it turned out. 

Does your perfect world have all kids growing up in a cocoon protected from physical contact or even verbal criticism, in case the fragile brats end up with a complex? My satangs say if it's a tossup between education and a 'complex', go for education and hope this gives him the appreciation and understanding to cope with the baggage, if any, later on in life.

Yours is a typical nanny mentality that removes the responsibility of consequences for one's own actions and squarely blames society, the environment or the goldfish next door. 

There can be no clearcut right or wrong, but one thing for sure is that we need to realise every kid is unique, which means different, and break from social strictures that demand nothing less than blanket protection of all children from real life. Better to set things straight early on rather than later or too late, when the kid is bonded with negative and often destructive habits and attitudes. 


Was I bad guy for turning a blind eye when, naturally at different times, each of my kids, nieces and nephews turned to marijuana? No? How about if I encouraged them and even supplied it, would that make me bad? Can you answer without knowing the background?

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## keda

> Oh no left myself open to a red from the sad btards on this forum. Go on, come round and give me a red - the best an uneducated man can do, is strike out.


No red, just the hope that you figure sooner rather than later that parents are the best hope for society, not an all embracing attitude of rights over common sense or protection over education.

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## keda

Q: At what age is it acceptable to beat your children up?
A: Beat and beat up, not the same connotation, but that's down to the parents, not you, me, or the social workers.

Q: What is the maximum acceptable injury you feel justified to inflict.
A: Nominal, not permanent or life threatening, mostly a bruised ego and the understanding that whatever caused it is not acceptable.

Q: Where is the line drawn?
A: See the above.





> Amy's mother, Tina Hunt, 26, was given a 12-month suspended sentence for allowing the death of a child and child cruelty. She admitted the charges.


A telling quote, and too common for my liking.

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## terry57

> I always deserved my beatings and took them like a man.
> 
> Which is what it turned me into, not some knife-weilding yob who can't throw two simple punches.



Fok Pat, 

you better harden the fok up mate as you got to belt the piss out of JJ  in the Onnut car park.   :Smile:

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## DrAndy

Quote of the week...





> Never did me any harm, my Thai mum had a stick specifically for the purpose, my dad just used his hands.


 
so, do not beat your kids, unless you want them to turn out like Pat

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## terry57

My old man never ever hit me ,  he did blow his load one time and threw a road sweeping broom in my general direction.  Foking shocker of a shot as it missed me by miles and he foked his arm at the same time.   :rofl: 

Now my mother was a different kettle of fish as when I was being a real twat she would blow her load and smash me a little ripper, not with a bottle but just her hand.   :Smile: 


Loved my mum as she never ever attacked me when I didn't deserve it, foking too bad she died as she was a top sort.

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## baldrick

No - I think you fcuked up DD 

diciplining your children when you are angry ( were you also under the influence of alcohol ) is lack of control. Using a closed fist is over the top. You weren't stopping him from attacking yourself or anyone else , you were using Violence to relieve your frustration.

My stepfather for 9 years of my childhood was an army NCO and only once did he come close to losing control while meteing out punishment. Normal proceedure was my brother and I lining up in fron of him , being told what rule we had broken ( we knew the rules ) and how many hits we were going to get from the doubled over pattern 38 web belt. Punishment was consistant and would happen - if he was not there at the time , it would happen when he had got back - even days later.

I went to boarding school and created a record by getting strapped within the first 24 hours of arriving there - corporal punishment there was varied and inconsistant by the various teachers .

in what way could he not wire up an electrical plug ? he could not remove the sheath without nicking the insulation on the conductors ? did not know which colour was active , neutral ? most Thai plugs are 2 pin units with glorified speaker wire going into them and polarity does not seem to come into it. Does he get taught to terminate plugs while doing 'electronics" ?

If what you wanted to punish him for was skipping classes , I think you went about it the wrong way and it will only make the issue worse.

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## kingwilly

> I feel like a real piece of shite, you don't punch kids.....


I'm glad you feel that way.

There is a big difference between smacking a naughty child and beating a kid.

You need to tell him sorry and explain why, the college thing may have been bothering you but to beat him for not knowing how to wire a plug is DAMN unfair.





> Good you feel like a piece of shit so will be easy to mend. Simply tell him you over reacted and are very sorry. Let it rest a few days and explain to him he is being given the chance to go to school and needs to take learning serious.


true enough.

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## Marmite the Dog

> then today he said he couldn't rewire a plug, it annoyed me too much, he is doing electronics at college.


My ex has a 'degree' in electrical engineering and can't wire a plug or understand the basics of how a house is wired, despite having 'studied' it. It seems to be the norm at Thai schools for students to graduate not knowing fek all about the subject.

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## nidhogg

Sorry, but I am on the "DD fucked up" side.

I do support physical disciplining on kids - BUT - never, ever with a fist, and only on the legs or buttocks - and especially NEVER on the head. Ideally (and this is the hardest part) never in anger - then its assault, not corrective punishment. Alway talk afterwards (immediately) about WHY. What did they do wong, and why you had to punish them.

Lastly, if you are still physically discipling your kids when they are 16/17/18 - give up. You lost already.

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## Loy Toy

> Alway talk afterwards (immediately) about WHY


My parents never had to reason with or console me after I got a slapping.

I knew why I was receiving and they knew why they were administering and not much to talk about really. It was up to me to remember why I got disciplined in the first place and so it would not happen again.

Too much feckin talk and no action these days and thats why the youth of today are collectively walking around with a huge chip on their shoulder.

Smashing a child when you are drunk.......? Well I reckon that person needs more help than the child.

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## The Gentleman Scamp

> I have just whacked the fok out of my son, well, not that bad as he aint down and bleeding, second time in 15 years, do kids need a good beating every now and again?


Yes, you did well...  Have a green.

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## gjbkk

DD, its only twice in so many years and I doubt it will ever happen again.

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## Travelmate

give your kid a good slap is fine. World has gone far too politically correct. If I ever have a kid one day. I expect to give it a good slap to keep it in line when he or she crosses the line.

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## Travelmate

> DD, its only twice in so many years and I doubt it will ever happen again.


Herein lies the fokin problem. He's not doing it enough! Been letting the kid get away with it.

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## The Gentleman Scamp

IN all seriousness - sit him down and apologize man to man...  No need to be a big poove and get all tearful but just apologize. How old is he?

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## jingjoke

> Originally Posted by dirtydog
> 
> then today he said he couldn't rewire a plug, it annoyed me too much, he is doing electronics at college.
> 
> 
> My ex has a 'degree' in electrical engineering and can't wire a plug or understand the basics of how a house is wired, despite having 'studied' it. It seems to be the norm at Thai schools for students to graduate not knowing fek all about the subject.


Truer words never spoken! It's the OJT (On Job Training) later, provided there's a solid mentoring system, that works. Very, very few Tech School graduate mechanics ever get past the interview at, say, Toyota. There is however a 2nd tier Thai Tech College system which is truly solid, where top technicians after a few years at work go to study to advance in their jobs: 'la creme de la creme', so to speak, with solid credentials. In Chiangmai, one of these recognized colleges (Thai name escapes me) is at the base of Doi Suthep on Huey Kaew Road near the police station. 
IMHO any parent worried about lack of motivation to study by their offspring might arrange a private 'tour'  at a suitable service center such as the electrical outlet 'Amorn', 'Siam TV' (Electronic Plaza), any of the large Japanese auto dealers, or any one of many export companies such as in the Lamphun Industrial estate where many quality items, even aircraft fittings, are made and shipped worldwide. A chat over lunch with motivated workers may do wonders. Some tech colleges do arrange a 2 month OJT at various businesses, but this happens in the last year - too late to correct a failing attitude, and appears to be stressful on students as their abilities or lack therof are readily apparent; with possibly 1 out of 40 being asked to .return at grad for an interview. For what it's worth...cheers

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## Panda

Kids aint just kids. They go through different stages of mental understanding as they grow older and the punishment needs to fit the kids level of understanding to be effective.
Sometimes a growling raised voice is enough for a five year old to behave. If its ignored a spontaneous slap on the bottom is perfectly acceptable (IMO). But if it goes past that with the little ones and becomes a battle of wills, its time to call time out and put some distance between the warring parties. Like shutting the kid in his/her room. 

Little kids don't understand mental punishment that goes on way past the point of conflict like cutting pocket money or depriving of other future privileges. All they see is a parent who next day wants to be all loving and caring but is still carrying this grudge for something that is over and done with.

As kids get older they have to learn about the way punishment in society works. 
The punishment is metered out in a more calculated way. EG: the cop doesn't bash you for speeding. You get a ticket and if you don't pay it you go to court and if you still don't pay the ticket plus court costs you loose your licence or go to jail. 

Trying to impose corporal punishment on a teenager means the level of force has to be escalated to have an effect. It becomes violence rather than disipline when the son is almost adult size. A father beating an adolescent with closed fists indicates the father is more out of control than the youth and is unlikely to have that desired effect. 

If I were in DDs shoes right now, I would be sitting down with the lad and having a deep and meaningful heart to heart talk about the future and agreeing on some rules (and punishments). An apology wouldnt go astray either.

----------


## Jesus Jones

Agreed with Panda.

My father never hit me once, yet his voice was enough and when he said no i knew he meant it.  My mother on the other hand used to hit out quite alot. and when i think of it now it was a beating rather than a hit, i wasn't scared of her and i often chatted back.

If i child is going to stick their finger in a socket a slap to the hand and a shout is enough, and excluding them from the group by making them sit alone or in their room is enough.  If to control your child by fear is what is needed, then i think you need to look at yourself.

----------


## keda

You are aware of course, that _excluding them from the group by making them sit alone or in their room_ is also regarded as child abuse if not criminal and inhumane treatment, by some, and a good smack is proper and appropriate, to others.

Btw an adolescent is not a child, and should be mature enough to avoid the need to be treated as one.

----------


## Fast Eddie

I'm also of the opinion that giving him a beating is going too far. I'm guessing that if he's at college he must be around 16 years old, and really it is up to him now how seriously he takes his studies and what he makes of himself, he's almost an adult. You can have stern words with him, you can try and encourage him, but i don't feel you can attack him in a fit of rage about this and feel justified in doing so.

I think sitting him down and apologising at the same time as trying to convey that it was just the deep feeling of frustration that you feel at seeing him wasting his life is probably in order. He'll probably be able to understand it and accept the apology if he sees it was just an unfortunate and innapropriate response based on how much you care. The problem with not straightening this out with him, is that if he also feels that you are unjustified in doing this he won't forget it, and it may well affect your relationship with him in the future.

----------


## DrivingForce

> Originally Posted by DrivingForce
> 
> really poor example..that ain't discipline it's murder.. far cry... I've seen how hard my boys have to bash themselves or each other just to get a bruise so it goes without saying, this is way OTT.. And he looks the part too...
> 
> 
> You failed to address every one of the three questions asked at the start of my post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the context of your questions disqualifies them from a response from me as I do not "beat up my children"..and that's where the line is drawn to a sensible, responsible parent...

I should think that would go without saying or clarification, but i guess you require otherwise, so maybe you should give serious consideration before becoming a parent if that line is in any way not distinct to you..

----------


## Panda

> You are aware of course, that _excluding them from the group by making them sit alone or in their room_ is also regarded as child abuse if not criminal and inhumane treatment, by some, and a good smack is proper and appropriate, to others.
> 
> Btw an adolescent is not a child, and should be mature enough to avoid the need to be treated as one.


Hey Keda, I know what you are saying and I am no advocate of mental punishment for young kids. My point was that if gets to a point where there is a battle of wills, and a smack on the bottom only escalates the confrontation, its no point taking it further with more serious physical punishment. When it gets to that point (and some kids are just will-full by nature), its time to separate the combatants for every bodies sake.

----------


## robuzo

> I feel like a real piece of shite, you don't punch kids.....


You're right, you shouldn't have done that.  It sounds like you didn't inflict much in the way of physical injury, but in the end unless the physical hurt is grievous it's the humiliation that does the damage.  Once tempers have cooled taking him for a man-to-man, heart-to-heart might help you get his respect back.  Dishing out a beatdown won't gain his respect for you, and it will contribute to his losing self-respect.

Parents who beat their kids do it for different reasons; the stepfather who resents his adopted son's existence is not the same as a frustrated father who genuinely loves his kid, fears the path he sees the kid is on, and lashes out having reached the end of his rope.  A kid will probably know when his parent is a twisted sadist as opposed to a frustrated dad.  At the risk of getting all mushy, as long as he knows you love him it should still be possible to make things right.

Being a parent is just fucking impossible, I'm finding out myself that the best you can do is try not to fuck them up too much.

*Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse*

 They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
  They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
  And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
  By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
  And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
  It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
  And don't have any kids yourself

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> I'm guessing that if he's at college he must be around 16 years old


15 as already stated.

----------


## keda

^80^
Sure a time out doesn't hurt and gives both sides a chance to think, or at least settle down, but few elements of a parent/child relationship can be pigeonholed as black or white, and ultimately discipline is just one of many things that should be left for the parents to decide. 

Shouldn't need to be mentioned but of course within reason, assuming reasonable parents wanting the best for the kids, and imho it starts to go wrong as soon as gov and courts are prodded by the pc brigade into meddling with the life defining relationship of parent and child.

----------


## DrivingForce

i am totally against humiliating one's children for punishment that just undermines their self esteem and self confidence and I also try at all costs to avoid ever hitting them in the face. I think it is more disrespectful than it is disciplinary...so it teaches same.. usually a finger thump on the 'noggin' as my dad used to call it does the trick just fine and bending over that low to whack their tail is often not an option..I like to call it an attention getter...

Where is DD?  :Confused:  he reported having difficulty with his ankle last night, like it going numb or something when he stood up which didn't sound to good, hope he didn't have a stroke over that much exertion or stressing or something??

----------


## MUSTY

D.D.
Not a perfect world, no perfect parents or perfect kids.
You have already learned your lesson, your kid probably hates you, the
sought of deep male hate that goes deep down and one day it may errupt 
violently and generally in full force in your direction.  I know I had 
to let my expectations of my kids go, because they were mine, not there's.
Still only two ways, these days it's the hard way for the 'y' generation.

Take this on board because you can see it now, take your kid and go see an independant person. Drop your whole load in front of your boy, apologise, shake hands (because he understands this).  Hand the reins over to him, because he knows best anyway (they all do).  Tell him your there if he needs you, because you can fed the unemployed. No handouts at all. 

Join the local gym or buy the gear and vent any of your frustrations.
I don't know jack shit about you or your kid. Let the school of hard knocks drive him, be a back seat driver.  Hug him heaps, he thinks your crazy anyway.

----------


## DrivingForce

> Originally Posted by Fast Eddie
> 
> I'm guessing that if he's at college he must be around 16 years old
> 
> 
> 15 as already stated.


in college at 15 WTF? should be in like 10th or 11th grade..  :Confused: 

maybe it's me but DD said "second time in 15 years" that doesn't necessarily mean that he's only 15? but you know DD better than me, bladdy hell if he's 15 and already in college no wonder he's having problems he's already missed 2 or 3 years of additional school and maturing he should have had before this..  :Sad:  and Thai education is already lacking so that puts him several years behind his counterparts around the globe.. poor lad..

----------


## Marmite the Dog

The thing with DD's kid is that compared with most Thai kids of his age he's a few years ahead, hence his early commencement of college. This, as you pointed out, is quite possibly the main factor in his truancy; immaturity. I'm sure the lad knows exactly why he got a beating and will hopefully realise that Dad isn't going to put up with it and will diligently attend school and make something of himself.

----------


## BugginOut

All people need kind attention, an open forum, and constructive and intelligent guidance----especially children. Fighting or corporal punishment is for situations that have gone beyond diplomatic means and are acts of desperation. Try to remain calm and be honest with yourself. Discuss the infractions directly and encourage a hard debate of the issue, whether it be manners, responsibility, consequences, etc. There's absolutely no reason to physically harm anyone, unless of course they're trying to harm you or your kin.

----------


## peterpan

Well put Bugin. 
I very rarely spank my girls but in extreme cases its needed. On the backside only and I explain later why I had to do it. 
Its not something I regard as part of normal discipline.

----------


## jandajoy

Physical punishment, when administered regularly, increases antisocial  behavior such as lying, stealing, cheating, bullying, assaulting a sibling or  peers, and lack of remorse for wrongdoing.Physical punishment increases the risk of child abuse.Physical punishment serves as a model for aggressive behavior and for  inappropriate ways of dealing with conflict.Physical punishment erodes trust between a parent and child.Physical punishment adversely affects cognitive development.Adults who were hit frequently as children are likely to suffer from  depression and other negative social and mental health outcomes.Effects of Corporal Punishment


NB. I don't post this as criticism or as offering an opinion. Just information. My view is that there is far to little authoritative information on the subject available in user friendly form for the modern parent.

The effects of corporal punishment stretch far and wide.  The oft stated response of "Well, it didn't do me any harm" needs close scrutiny. IMHO.  :Sad:

----------


## panama hat

Can't say I agree with the corporal punishment sentiment - especially bashing a 15-year old . . . and now DD feels like crap for it . . . doesn't help anyone or anything. 

Most I've done is slapped the eldest one's hand . . . and the littlest one - she's a real hard case. 

My girls just hate it when I sit them down and talk/bore them to death - punishment enough

----------


## jandajoy

CORPORAL PUNISHMENT - philosophical study

This is good. Worthy reading for all parents.

----------


## DrivingForce

> So at what age is it acceptable to beat your children up - what is the maximum acceptable injury you feel justified to inflict - where is the line drawn?





> Never expect these apologist to respond. They don't understand their character. It's a very rare occasion that Thais beat on their children, though you'll find these cretons throughout this forum scramble to bring examples to attention of those whom need comparatives. This is rare. It's not in their nature. However, it is the nature and instinct of Westerners, as such. I wonder if the Dog would go back and read what he writes.....doesn't want his son to be around stupid Thais. Doesn't want him to be a stupid Thai. That's great - be like me instead.


never expect those who dump their spoiled undisciplined children on the rest of society to understand why it is a rude and inconsiderate imposition (putting it mildly and politely) we should not have to deal with..  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## dirtydog

I wasn't going to bother replying to this thread as i am pretty ashamed of what I did, I did hurt him a lot as you don't slap people if your fighting and i tend to black out when fighting, I never remember any of my fights even when I done a bit of boxing at school, I had been working in bang saen for a week day and night so was pretty stressed.

I still don't think I was wrong as he needed something to sort his life out, trouble is I don't stop till I go down and that was way over the top, he was crying all night  :Sad:  I have finished the job and am back now so will apologise to him tomorrow.

----------


## jandajoy

GOOD MAN.

----------


## dirtydog

I am now gonna start wife beating I think, I just had a big arguement with the girlfriend, how foking dumb can Thai people be? I think I have found new lows, I asked her how much she will earn this month, seems like its a bad one and she is gonna earn 3k baht, so i mentioned to her about why even bother working and why not rent out the ground floor for like 12k baht per month, good location and all that, would have people queing up for it at that price, fok me she done her nut, she was going to glass me, shame the Thais are so foking stoopid, they could make good money otherwise.

----------


## jandajoy

With the greatest of respect, are the levels of violence, potential or otherwise, always so high in your house?   :Sad:

----------


## Mid

hang in there DD ,

these ARE troubled times for all  :Sad:

----------


## dirtydog

^^ no they are not, but if I black out then they probably go way over the top, with fights before bar owners have said I go way over the top, they are probably talking shite though, at least I hop[e so  :Smile:

----------


## Loy Toy

Yup, take the family away for the weekend and chill out DD.

Away from Pattaya, work, the apartment and Teak Door and spend a bit of quality time with your son.

Actions speak louder than words (and apologies)  :Smile:

----------


## bkkmadness

Sound advice LT.

----------


## Rural Surin

never expect those who dump their spoiled undisciplined children on the rest of society to understand why it is a rude and inconsiderate imposition (putting it mildly and politely) we should not have to deal with..  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): [/quote]
Not all children are spoiled and undisciplined.

----------


## Rural Surin

> I am now gonna start wife beating I think, I just had a big arguement with the girlfriend, how foking dumb can Thai people be? I think I have found new lows, I asked her how much she will earn this month, seems like its a bad one and she is gonna earn 3k baht, so i mentioned to her about why even bother working and why not rent out the ground floor for like 12k baht per month, good location and all that, would have people queing up for it at that price, fok me she done her nut, she was going to glass me, shame the Thais are so foking stoopid, they could make good money otherwise.


Are you attempting to distract the fact that you are a very violent, uncivilized, and angry human being by creating a new conduit for your angst by lumping a whole culture with your flaccid judgements...?? You have a lot of problems.

----------


## Rural Surin

> GOOD MAN.


He's not a good man.

----------


## Panda

> ^^ no they are not, but if I black out then they probably go way over the top, with fights before bar owners have said I go way over the top, they are probably talking shite though, at least I hop[e so


Seeing as you are bearing you personal info here, I hope you don't mind me asking a couple of personal questions?

What do you mean by "black out"? 
Is an alcohol induced black out or more like you don't recall what you do when you lose your temper?

If its either one of the above it could indicate some serious medical problem.

I personally don't believe people are incapable of controlling their tempers no matter what they say. I have seen some tough bar fighters with a reputation for having terrible tempers and going berserk. But when they are faced with someone bigger and better then they suddenly develop remarkable self restraint.

Ask yourself the question, -- if you were drinking in a bar with Mike Tyson and he started seriously provoking you, -- would you go off the deep end and attack him, or would you tactfully walk away?

If the answer to the above is that you would attack him, then you have some mental problems.
If the answer is that you would walk away from the conflict, then you must have the ability to control your temper if you choose to.

----------


## andy55

you have serious mental probs d/dog
 unfortunatly if your in thailand, and as such cant get any help for it so its up to you to try and chill out 
 violence is never an answer 
 its self destuctive 
 if you want to self destuct-- be violent to your loved ones 
 do take care of yourself and your g/f and son mate 

i myself am under a lot of stress-btw- fianancially --
 no work now 
credit debt etc-- but no way would i visit any violence on anyone -- well mbma bank  maybye :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
 andy

----------


## jim1176

> I have just whacked the fok out of my son, well, not that bad as he aint down and bleeding, second time in 15 years, do kids need a good beating every now and again?


Not if he is over 15, should be able to use more sophisticated method by that age. Better give some thought to if you just lost it or he really had it comming

----------


## DrivingForce

> never expect those who dump their spoiled undisciplined children on the rest of society to understand why it is a rude and inconsiderate imposition (putting it mildly and politely) we should not have to deal with..


Not all children are spoiled and undisciplined.[/quote]

no........that's the point my children aren't spoiled or undisciplined and I spank them when it's necessary but conversely I guarantee you most who aren't corporeally disciplined are most definately spoiled and undisciplined..

----------


## jandajoy

> that's the point my children aren't spoiled or undisciplined and I spank them when it's necessary but conversely I guarantee you most who aren't corporeally disciplined are most definately spoiled and undisciplined.


WOW, bit confused on this one.

Children who aren't "corporeally" disciplined are "spoiled and undisciplined"

Yup. I've looked at it again and I really don't understand.

Please explain..............

----------


## DrivingForce

> Originally Posted by dirtydog
> 
> 
> I am now gonna start wife beating I think, I just had a big arguement with the girlfriend, how foking dumb can Thai people be? I think I have found new lows, I asked her how much she will earn this month, seems like its a bad one and she is gonna earn 3k baht, so i mentioned to her about why even bother working and why not rent out the ground floor for like 12k baht per month, good location and all that, would have people queing up for it at that price, fok me she done her nut, she was going to glass me, shame the Thais are so foking stoopid, they could make good money otherwise.
> 
> 
> Are you attempting to distract the fact that you are a very violent, uncivilized, and angry human being by creating a new conduit for your angst by lumping a whole culture with your flaccid judgements...?? You have a lot of problems.


actually I think he is admitting it and owning up to it which I wholeheartedly support, it took brass ones for him to post this knowing he was probably going to get harassed for it from posters like you. if he was hiding it or running away from it would he be posting his shame in an open forum for ridicule?? not likely..

The blacking out part is most distressing though and should be addressed IMO..

----------


## jandajoy

Explains nothing.  ^ ^

----------


## DrivingForce

> Originally Posted by DrivingForce
> 
> that's the point my children aren't spoiled or undisciplined and I spank them when it's necessary but conversely I guarantee you *most* who aren't corporeally disciplined are most definately spoiled and undisciplined.
> 
> 
> WOW, bit confused on this one.
> 
> Children who aren't "corporeally" disciplined are "spoiled and undisciplined"
> 
> ...


does that help you??

----------


## DrivingForce

> Explains nothing. ^ ^


I guess my computer is not as fast as yours..have patience

----------


## jandajoy

> have patience


Always.  :Smile:

----------


## Nawty

Have not read all the thread....but with flogging a kid for not rewiring a plug and blackouts......??

Has he been playing with the sockets again ??

Bet he ran the fcuk out of that house like lightning while the lights were out this time.

----------


## baldrick

> I guarantee you _most_ who aren't corporeally disciplined are most definately spoiled and undisciplined..





> WOW, bit confused on this one.


are you being *deliberately* obtuse ?

I have no problem with corporal punishment that is administered consistantly and with out lack of control.

most times I see parents who are too lazy to be consistant about their discipline and then resort to emotional over the top violence when they do finally get motivated to do something.

----------


## benlovesnuk

ive never been hit, i would then consider that hitting others is not necessary. Those that have would also agree to it working in the same, quite clearly some do and some dont.................the likely hood that it will help is less if it is not backed up with reasoning although this does not excuse it!

Everyone is different, so how is it that one should say as to another about the raising there-in of another's child, loved one, partner etc. If you think it is wrong correct it or maybe someone else will, if you feel no shame or guilt you will not be suspecting any retributions or care for them. 

I would hope you realise that whatever you feel was wrong that you correct, and make better in which ever way you feel fit DD!

Like i said in your PM dont worry about it, you seem to be apologetic and so now take that and make something better happen!!!!!!!!!

----------


## dirtydog

> What do you mean by "black out"?


I remember the beginnings and that is it, this could be with drink or without it, I gave up singha beer as that did make me violent, this was many years ago and only fighting with other idiot farangs, thats where the other bar owner farangs came in  :Sad:

----------


## dirtydog

As a kid I done martial arts and boxing and all that fun stuff, I could remember every fight, where it went wrong, where it went right, the whole lot, as an adult I think one of my occupations changed that, you just dont care anymore, life is cheaper, etc etc  :Sad:

----------


## Nawty

oh ......you mean the 'soldier of fortune' career.

So did the young fella fight back ?? Or just take it like a man ??

----------


## Jesus Jones

If your refering to being in the forces i think that's a poor excuse.  everyone is different of course, my brother was in the falklands as a gunner and also the first gulf shyte.  He watched his best mates blown to pieces on his ship, however he is a great father, he just gave up the booze.

----------


## good2bhappy

if you are going to hit your children, Never do it with anger.
They must never fear you

----------


## Whiteshiva

Below is a picture of my 3 year old son, taken just after a he was disciplined by me. Unlike his brother, he refuses to listen, and needs to be disciplined almost daily. Last time I hit him, I hit him in the face, just to scare him and cause some pain at the same time. Looking at his lip, I think I may have gone a little bit too far this time, since I split his lip, but at least I didnt damage his teeth. 

So, I admit that parenting can be difficult, but kids need to know who is in charge. He has been behaving well since that beating anyway. Indeed, both he and his twin brother have been absolutely quiet and obedient since that day. They quiet down and run away as soon as they see me. 
Still agree physical punishment is the way to go?

----------


## Nawty

> Below is a picture of my 3 year old son, taken just after a he was disciplined by me. Unlike his brother, he refuses to listen, and needs to be disciplined almost daily. Last time I hit him, I hit him in the face, just to scare him and cause some pain at the same time. Looking at his lip, I think I may have gone a little bit too far this time, since I split his lip, but at least I didnt damage his teeth. 
> 
> So, I admit that parenting can be difficult, but kids need to know who is in charge. He has been behaving well since that beating anyway. Indeed, both he and his twin brother have been absolutely quiet and obedient since that day. They quiet down and run away as soon as they see me. 
> 
> Still agree physical punishment is the way to go?


Excellent skills there Shiva....good to see you spared his teeth.

----------


## Nawty

Actually amazed you chose to document it.

Look into the eyes of that 3yo boy.

----------


## nidhogg

> Below is a picture of my 3 year old son, taken just after a he was disciplined by me.


Oh mate.  I sure hope this is some kinda joke or that you are trying to make a point in some way.

----------


## Jesus Jones

Personally if what your saying is true, then you really need to be ashamed of yourself, and what concerns me more is that you have the guts/sickness to actually tell us and show photos of your abusive nature to your child. 

Assult and child abuser is what you should be labelled as.

----------


## panama hat

:Sad:   I'm disappointed in you, Whiteshiva

----------


## DrivingForce

WS thank you for your courage in your honesty and open sharing... dissapointed in the result..  :Sad:

----------


## Whiteshiva

OK, I'd better pull the plug on this one before the lynch mob gets out of hand. :Smile: 

Rest assured, he is quite OK. I posted this to highlight the insanity in this thread of grown people (deliberately avoiding the term "men" :Sad: ) here trying to justify physical abuse of children by calling it punishment, discipline or whatever......

The facts: My son got hurt one morning (hence the pyjamas) back in July while running around with his brother in the living room. He tripped and fell face first into the edge of a shoe cabinet - in fact you can see the vertical marks above and below his mouth from the edge. He was quite shocked about it, there was a fair bit of bleeding and his mum and the maid going hysterical didn't exactly improve the situation. 

I got some ice, and took him upstairs to calm him down and cool down the wound to stop the bleeding and reduce swelling. Once he was calm and had stopped bleeding, I took the pictures, thinking this would be both therapeutic (he always gets a kick out of seeing himself on the camera screen), might serve as a valuable lesson for him and also be something for him to laugh about when he gets older. As the cut was rather deep, we took him to see a doctor but fortunately stitches weren't required. The wound healed in just over a week, and fortunately left no scar.

Rest assured, I have never laid a hand on any of my children, and would beat to a pulp anyone who tried to. Yet my kids are great, very well behaved and polite - and absolutely obsessed with the father :Smile: . 

Timeouts and a "naughty corner", combined with determination, consistency and a fair deal of patience is all it has taken. If my kids misbehave, I bend down to be face-to-face with them, hold their arms so they cannot turn away from me, and explain in a calm but firm voice why I disapprove of what they are doing, I always listen to their explanations, and unless I detect genuine remorse, it is off to the naughty corner for three minutes (one minute per year of age) or until they apologise and promise to behave - whichever takes longer.

But, and this is the point I am trying to make: If my post above were true (and some of you obviously thought it was),think about it - is smacking a kid in the mouth with a fist THAT much different from giving them a spanking? 

You are inflicting pain, suffering, embarrassment and worst of all, teaching them that violence is acceptable against those who are weaker! Surely as adults we should be able to understand that this is surely not the way to deal with kids.

And for those of you who are sceptical of my explanation, perhaps thinking that I am just making this up to cover up child abuse - read post #123 again, especially the first letter of each sentence. :Smile: 




> Below is a picture of my 3 year old son, taken just after a he was disciplined by me. 
> Unlike his brother, he refuses to listen, and needs to be disciplined almost daily. 
> Last time I hit him, I hit him in the face, just to scare him and cause some pain at the same time. 
> Looking at his lip, I think I may have gone a little bit too far this time, since I split his lip, but at least I didn’t damage his teeth. 
> So, I admit that parenting can be difficult, but kids need to know who is in charge. 
> He has been behaving well since that beating anyway. 
> Indeed, both he and his twin brother have been absolutely quiet and obedient since that day. 
> They quiet down and run away as soon as they see me.

----------


## Nawty

Well nice to know its not real...but when you post it and say it is so....we are not standing next to you at your computer to see the wry smile on your face.

Not a topic to make up a story like this about me thinks.

And I do see a huge difference between a smack on the backside and a fist to the face of a child.

While I would do one, I would never the other.

Just the other day I was so wild with my son for something he did and has been told time and time again not to do and been made to sit in his room alone and no cartoons and no this and no that etc. Goes in one ear and out the other...so a smack to waken him up was in line. It is never the first line of defence, only when other methods have not had the effect.

I sat him down and told him what my Dad did to me and my 2 brothers and that i would never ever even think about doing the same to him.

My old man had the big thick leather strap and it was either accross the hand or the backside....I remember one day the 3 of us with our arses in the air lining up for a floggin....cannot remember what we did to get it but.

There is a huge difference between a smack and a punch or a flogging....huge.

----------


## DrivingForce

> Timeouts and a "naughty corner", combined with determination, consistency and a fair deal of patience is all it has taken. If my kids misbehave, I bend down to be face-to-face with them, hold their arms so they cannot turn away from me, and explain in a calm but firm voice why I disapprove of what they are doing, I always listen to their explanations, and unless I detect genuine remorse, it is off to the naughty corner for three minutes (one minute per year of age) or until they apologise and promise to behave - whichever takes longer.


this is my approach 95 percent of the time it's the other 5% that requires a more direct hands on approach, my kids aren't your kids they're all different, and require different approaches some of the time..no one avenue of discipline is effective 100% of the time for every child, they are after all intelligent beings that grow and develop every day and begin to find new ways of manipulating for their purposes and working around your discipline so a change of direction is sometimes required and sometimes that requires reinforcement of who the boss is..

Yours maybe that one in a million that react to your approach positively and that's good for you...and them.....and hopefully for the rest of us too...

handsome young man BTW WS.......tell him scars give him character and distinguish him from his brother  :Wink:

----------


## DrivingForce

> But, and this is the point I am trying to make: If my post above were true (and some of you obviously thought it was),think about it - is smacking a kid in the mouth with a fist THAT much different from giving them a spanking?


absolutely!! 100% difference... but if you can't tell the difference? then your right not to spank your children...

wow nawty! amazing synchronization there!! simultaneous posting of virtually the exact same view point...

----------


## good2bhappy

> They quiet down and run away as soon as they see me


Maybe you all learnt a lesson
I want my children to run towards me with love in their eyes. Not away from me with fear!

----------


## good2bhappy

it is very difficult to hold your temper, so I will not condemn.

----------


## nidhogg

> OK, I'd better pull the plug on this one before the lynch mob gets out of hand.


Hmm.  I did think it did not fit with what little I had learned of your character on the board.

Not quite sure whether to green you or red you daily for the rest of the year for that.

Sadly, the thing is that many fathers do knock the crap out of kids, even as young as your one.  Quite upsetting indeed.

----------


## DrivingForce

> it is very difficult to hold your temper, so I will not condemn.


G2B did you not read WS's above explanation......

I might also include the fact that my kids run to me and hug me all the time and are free with unsolicited kisses too as that's what they get consistently, it's about balance and consistency then they know where they stand with you..

In fact my youngest stands on my bed behind me a lot of the time leaning on my back and watching over my shoulder while I'm here on the computer and he kisses the back of my ear...so i'm quite confident in their love for me and not their fear of me or my discipline when it is required on those rare occasions..

----------


## Whiteshiva

> Well nice to know its not real...but when you post it and say it is so....we are not standing next to you at your computer to see the wry smile on your face.


Well my objective was not so much to amuse as to point out that child abuse is wrong.  A smack in the face will be visible to everyone, but you can spank and flog a child without much "external damage" - still doesn't make it right. IMHO.




> My old man had the big thick leather strap and it was either accross the hand or the backside....I remember one day the 3 of us with our arses in the air lining up for a floggin....*cannot remember what we did to get it but.*


I think this is very typical - all physical punichment does is install fear of more physical punishment.  A child's mind is not analytical, and the connection between pain and his/her lack of behaviour may not be clear. You don't have to inflict pain to make a child see the errors of his/her ways.  But a quick smack is certainly easier and quicker for whoever administers it.

----------


## panama hat

^  You're a prick, but I'm glad my opinion of you - based on the interaction here - wasn't wrong . . . at least in that respect. 

Hmm, red you or green you . . .

----------


## Whiteshiva

> Originally Posted by Whiteshiva
> 
> But, and this is the point I am trying to make: If my post above were true (and some of you obviously thought it was),think about it - is smacking a kid in the mouth with a fist THAT much different from giving them a spanking?
> 
> 
> absolutely!! 100% difference... but if you can't tell the difference? then your right not to spank your children...


No I cannot really tell the difference (and hence neither hit nor spank my kids).  Both hitting and spanking are painful for the child, and more likely than not administered with anger.  If a spanking is Ok, then how about a slap on the arm? Or a slap in the face?  Or a fist in the face?

To me they are all manifestations in various degrees of violence and abuse and not something I will subject my kids to.

Interesting topic, though - much as I disagree with the majority of posters on this subject.....

----------


## DrivingForce

to each his own...

WS for some clarity based on your repo to me I'm a bit confused. was it your intention to red me or green me? You know the comment I made about telling your son that scars give him character was regarding his unfortunate confrontation with that uncaring shoe rack and was not in reference to any actual beatings right? it was intended to be tongue in cheek...

----------


## jandajoy

Push comes to shove..............

Ain't good to beat up on people you know you can beat.

Talking is always better than tackling.

----------


## DrivingForce

> Ain't good to beat up on people you know you can beat.


 :Scratchchin:  so better to beat up on people you know will kick yer arse?  :Confused: 

JFYI I thought you signed off to bed??

----------


## Whiteshiva

> to each his own...
> 
> WS for some clarity based on your repo to me I'm a bit confused. was it your intention to red me or green me? You know the comment I made about telling your son that scars give him character was regarding his unfortunate confrontation with that uncaring shoe rack and was not in reference to any actual beatings right? it was intended to be tongue in cheek...


I know, and the green was deliberate - I rarely hand out reds and on the rare occasion I do so, only to offensive twa.ts.  

You are neither, IMHO. :Smile:

----------


## DrivingForce

> Originally Posted by DrivingForce
> 
> 
>  to each his own...
> 
> WS for some clarity based on your repo to me I'm a bit confused. was it your intention to red me or green me? You know the comment I made about telling your son that scars give him character was regarding his unfortunate confrontation with that uncaring shoe rack and was not in reference to any actual beatings right? it was intended to be tongue in cheek...
> 
> 
> I know, and the green was deliberate - I rarely hand out reds and on the rare occasion I do so, only to offensive twa.ts. 
> ...


not this time.......you mean to say??  :Tongue:   :Wink: 
ok then good on ya...  :Wink:  wouldn't have necessarily been offended in this case as it's a contentious topic and especially if you thought it read the way I thought you had read it, but none the less good to know.. I dole out very few reds myself...if I don't agree I'll tell you here or just don't acknowledge at all...  :Smile:

----------


## dirtydog

> oh ......you mean the 'soldier of fortune' career.  So did the young fella fight back ?? Or just take it like a man ??


No, sadly no sas or cia for me, or any military service at all, people generally don't fight back if you get them the first time right, within the first few seconds the winner in a street type fight is decided, I still aint talked or seen him yet to resolve this issue  :Sad:

----------


## Nawty

Well you should make the effort to see him....not wait for it to happen on by.

As for WS not being able to differentiate the difference between a smack on the backside when the child is also usually padded in clothes....then you are very lucky that you have the disposition you do.

If you could not tell the difference and you smacked kids, obviously it would lead to more as you do not realise the difference between a smack on the backside and a punch in the face. 

I do realise the difference...greatly...and the 'other' would never happen with my kids.

I have no problem with a smack...I do with a belting, wallop, flogging though. I got belted as a kid and turned out fine. But I never had a relationship with my father like I now have with my son.

----------


## panama hat

> I got belted as a kid and turned out fine. But I never had a relationship with my father like I now have with my son.


Same, literally belted . . . this may be a good thread topic

----------


## Jesus Jones

It amazes me how some seem to want to defend the OP. If this was a newbie who posted this, most if not everyone would be calling him. Some have made comments that we are over judging as we were not there to see how he was hit. He was hit in the face as clearly can be seen. I'm sorry to say but you have let you animal instincts take over and you have gone for the face on your child, that constitues to physical violance, and the damage is there to be seen. As one poster said, the boys eyes say it all.

I agree that slapping a child maybe be needed in some cases, and i don't agree with wrapping children up in cotton wool, but you my friend have stepped over the line, and clearly you are not ashamed as you wouldn't dare have posted this here.

You have been praised for being honest, FFS.

----------


## nidhogg

> I have no problem with a smack...I do with a belting, wallop, flogging though. I got belted as a kid and turned out fine. But I never had a relationship with my father like I now have with my son.


Exactly.  My dad was very free with his hands.  Took me to well into my 30's to be even comfortable with him in the same room.

I got two boys (and one girl), one of the boys got a smack on the legs - once.  The other never needed it, and I have a better relationship with my sons than I ever had with my dad.

----------


## Nawty

JJ....read his next post again as I think you missed it.

Re the better relationship with fathers and kids now than what you may have had with your own Dad......In my case it was not from the beltings that I did not have a good relationship with him...other reasons, so the relationship I have with my son is not therefore because i do not belt him....it is because i love him to death and tell him all the time and do everything with him. We have a great time together and he talks to me non stop. Just this last holiday, he had a ball snorkelling with me for hours. We do lots of stuff like that together.

My old man and me also did things like that together and had fun....but we never got on like I do with my son and I tell him that everyday.

My daughter is a mummies girl but.

----------


## robuzo

I don't know how many other TD members have this problem, but there is a real divide between my Thai wife and I in re screaming at and hitting the kid.  My mom was a screamer and a hitter, and my stepfather, a gym teacher. . .I'd rather not go into it, but suffice it to say, I don't like screaming at and hitting kids and won't tolerate it.  I haven't spent much time around Thai families, but from what I see and hear around me, including on the noxious Thai TV dramas that my wife watches, a certain amount of beating, screaming, and generally overwrought lunatic behavior is tolerated here provided it is not conducted between strangers.  

The odd thing is that my son's mother can't seem to understand why the boy is generally very well behaved when he is with me (which is often, because I have a very flexible schedule) while he tends to push her to limits constantly.  I keep trying to explain to her that it is because he knows she will spit out the dummy with little provocation, and I am convinced the little bugger finds it amusing.  Being my son I think I have some insight into his thought processes, and I suspect he is like I was- absolutely no tolerance for being bullied and no respect for people capable of persuading others only through main force.  What I am concerned about is that his relationship with her isn't likely to improve as he gets older- I am afraid he will gradually lose respect for her (I should mention that I am talking about a very precocious 2-year-old).  I actually have asked a pediatrician to explain this to her, but I am not sure it sank in.  Anyone know of any Thai family counseling services?

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> Anyone know of any Thai family counseling services?


You're joking, right?

----------


## nidhogg

> I don't know how many other TD members have this problem, but there is a real divide between my Thai wife and I in re screaming at and hitting the kid.


Same same to an extent.  Thai child rearing seems to be an eclectic mix of random slaps and screamng and over the top coddling.  You just have to work on your wife.  My missus is better now, but we had to go through a phase of "you slap him, and I slap you" (not carried out of course, but it got the point across).

----------


## robuzo

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> Anyone know of any Thai family counseling services?
> 
> 
> You're joking, right?


I guess so, in a way, but sometimes I'm not sure when I am letting my cynicism about this place lead me to false assumptions, and when it is correct to be cynical (i.e., usually).

----------


## robuzo

> Same same to an extent.  Thai child rearing seems to be an eclectic mix of random slaps and screamng and over the top coddling.  You just have to work on your wife.  My missus is better now, but we had to go through a phase of "you slap him, and I slap you" (not carried out of course, but it got the point across).


You've reinforced what I have heard from other farangs I've discussed this with in person- Thai mums are very loving, to the point of spoiling the kid (especially the boys); I still can't convince her to let the boy sleep alone, which is turning into a problem.  At the same time, they get a bit too passionate, and to be brutally frank, I'm afraid there are some issues which from a Western (or Japanese) point of view would be classified as having to do with a lack of emotional maturity, which here seems mainly a matter of suppressing/repressing true feelings in public; you suppress your feelings but don't necessarily confront them or their source, or acknowledge the need to deal with them.  I've been trying the "if you hit him he'll hate you for it" line. That seems to worry her, again because she has seen my own relationship with my mom, which frankly I think she finds horrifying, although from an American perspective it isn't too bad- suffice it to say, I don't worship my mother the way a Thai is meant to (anyone wishing to read more about this should check out the "Holy mother, mother dear" chapter in Mulder's Inside Thai Society).

To go a step further, I think there is another dynamic at work.  My wife was raised in a fairly prosperous village setting, where I'm guessing childrearing is more a of collective effort, with elder siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, and of course the indispensable grandparents there to take the pressure off of mom (as for the dads, well. . .the good ones are notable for their rarity).  I think things go a lot more smoothly when my kid and his mom are at the village- in addition to having a lot more for the kid to do (dogs and piglets to play with, chickens to chase, lizards to catch, cousins to fight), the burden of looking after the kids is shared.  The urban nuclear family concept is fairly new here, and I suspect my son's mom is having trouble coping with it.

----------


## Whiteshiva

> It amazes me how some seem to want to defend the OP. If this was a newbie who posted this, most if not everyone would be calling him. Some have made comments that we are over judging as we were not there to see how he was hit. He was hit in the face as clearly can be seen. I'm sorry to say but you have let you animal instincts take over and you have gone for the face on your child, that constitutes to physical violence, and the damage is there to be seen. As one poster said, the boys eyes say it all.
> 
> I agree that slapping a child maybe be needed in some cases, and i don't agree with wrapping children up in cotton wool, but you my friend have stepped over the line, and clearly you are not ashamed as you wouldn't dare have posted this here.
> 
> You have been praised for being honest, FFS.


Since I am the only one who has posted pictures here, I presume you are referring to me (post #123), and not DD. And I further presume you missed my post #130 shortly after. So no hard feelings, at least from my side - I posted expecting people to get upset, and apparently it worked.


It is only natural that people will look at the picture of my son with a gaping wound in his lip, accompanied by a (fictitious) story of child abuse, and not only be outraged at me, but also feel deeply sorry for the kid. Some people even read all kind of emotions and trauma into his eyes. 

Here is another of the pictures I took that day - although still a bit shocked by the accident, he is obviously not suffering from a major emotional trauma - he is actually eagerly waiting to see more pictures of himself on my camera: :Smile: 


And rest assured - the injury probably looked worse than it really was - this pricture was takes only three (!) days later:


and it was already healing rather nicely. He doesn't exactly look like a fearful, abused child anymore, does he? :Smile: 

*HOWEVER (AND THIS IS WHY I POSTED THE PICTURES IN THE FIRST PLACE):*

Just because the physical trauma and pain (self-inflicted, I will add yet again!) my boy suffered was so visible, it invokes all kind of paternal instincts even amongst complete strangers. Had the injury been deliberately inflicted by an adult, one should (and, credit to you all, most were) highly incensed about it. 

Yet I doubt is my sons split lip was much worse than a severe spanking in terms of pain. He is, in fact much more of a chicken than his twin brother, yet he never complained about the lip afterwards. And a spanking is probably more humiliating than a slap in the face (which would you rather have preferred today as an adult? :Smile: ). 

And yet some people here are proudly admitting that they administer physical pain and emotional humiliation to their children as a part of their upbringing. And as one poster here already has inadvertently pointed out (#131), what is likely to be remembered is the punishment and pain itself, rather than why it was administered.

And lets not forget that a spanking is still a beating, even if it takes place on the buttocks and with an open hand. 

I admit that my experience as a father is limited (3 years with twins, and 6 months with no.3), but firm and consistent, non-violent discipline has worked to date, and my methods have been confirmed correct by both accredited kindergarten teachers (Thai, American and English) as well as by several books I have read on the subject. 

When my kids to something wrong, I want them to understand why it is wrong, and why they should stop doing it. Hopefully this will result in a child that avoids misbehaving because they can emphasise with others or understand the potential consequences of their actions, rather than out of fear of being caught and punished/beaten. 

There is a vast difference between the two - perhaps not for the parent, but certainly for the child. And does any of you honestly think you can teach compassion and insight by using violence or threats of violence? :Confused: 

Another aspect of physical discipline that I think has been overlooked is the fact as the child gets older, the level of violence administered as punishment must surely increase to have an effect. So when are you going to stop - when you draw blood or cause permanent damage, or perhaps when your child starts to fight back? What happens if your child is stronger than yourself (my twin sons will be 18 when I am 60 - I wouldn't fancy my odds in a fight then, at least not if they team up against me! :Smile: )

Also, to those of you who have so frequently used it here, please spare me the "I was beaten as a kid, and it didn't do me any harm" hyperbole. It is the absolute lowest sort of argument and proves absolutely nothing. Justifying harm or injury to your kids just because you suffered it yourself is so primitive it is below contempt.

----------


## Jesus Jones

Go on, keep justyfying your actions.  It's none of my business at the end of the day, but as you have made it by posting the pictures then yes, obviously your going to get some flack.  As for the child  now being happy, of course he his.  If you beat a dog and cuddle it afterwards it will appear happy for a short moment.

Maybe you should ask yourself if you are confusing your child with violance and effection.

----------


## Norton

> Go on, keep justyfying your actions.


Jeez, Jesus!  WS didn't hit his boy.  The boy accidentally banged his lip as kids will do.  WS is obviously opposed to beating kids and has stated so in his posts.

----------


## Whiteshiva

> Go on, keep justyfying your actions. It's none of my business at the end of the day, but as you have made it by posting the pictures then yes, obviously your going to get some flack. As for the child now being happy, of course he his. If you beat a dog and cuddle it afterwards it will appear happy for a short moment.
> 
> Maybe you should ask yourself if you are confusing your child with violance and effection.


Are you pulling my leg, or are you really that thick? Since I know that we have our fair share of idiots here on TD who either are completely unable to comprehend what is spelled out in detail for them or are being deliberately difficult, I made allowances for imbeciles such as yourself. 

Try reading #123 again, this time only the first letter of each sentence. Here, I'll make it easy for you, since it also sums up your posts above:




> Below is a picture of my 3 year old son, taken just after a he was disciplined by me. 
> Unlike his brother, he refuses to listen, and needs to be disciplined almost daily. 
> Last time I hit him, I hit him in the face, just to scare him and cause some pain at the same time. 
> Looking at his lip, I think I may have gone a little bit too far this time, since I split his lip, but at least I didn’t damage his teeth. 
> So, I admit that parenting can be difficult, but kids need to know who is in charge. 
> He has been behaving well since that beating anyway. 
> Indeed, both he and his twin brother have been absolutely quiet and obedient since that day. 
> They quiet down and run away as soon as they see me.


 :kma:  :nerner:  :kma:

----------


## Jesus Jones

Thank you for the explanation, now i understand.

My apologies in that case.

Admitadely, i got you mixed up with the original OP.

----------


## robuzo

> Another aspect of physical discipline that I think has been overlooked is the fact as the child gets older, the level of violence administered as punishment must surely increase to have an effect. So when are you going to stop - when you draw blood or cause permanent damage, or perhaps when your child starts to fight back? What happens if your child is stronger than yourself (my twin sons will be 18 when I am 60 - I wouldn't fancy my odds in a fight then, at least not if they team up against me!)
> 
> Also, to those of you who have so frequently used it here, please spare me the "I was beaten as a kid, and it didn't do me any harm" hyperbole. It is the absolute lowest sort of argument and proves absolutely nothing. Justifying harm or injury to your kids just because you suffered it yourself is so primitive it is below contempt.


In addition to physical abuse being objectionable on the grounds of the emotional damage it causes (if you abuse your kid to the point of physical injury your kid needs protection from you until you get the  help you need), as pointed out above it is also a tactical error.  Once the kid no longer fears you physically you will likely also have lost the edge in terms of moral suasion- your child will have lost fear and respect (not the same thing, which sadly seems to be beyond the understanding of some).

I would like to point out that giving a kid a time out on his own in his room hardly needs to constitute mental humiliation or torture.  It is simply a way of telling a child that when he is prepared to be respectful of others he can enjoy their company.  The thing my kid hates the most is to be ignored- he would rather his mom blow up at him than have his dad ignore his acting up (his mom realizes this in her calmer moments).  His timeouts, in his room with his toys, never last more than 10 minutes, because he wants to be with us, and I don't think he doubts we want to be with him (although amusingly he sometimes gets involved in something in his room and doesn't come out when called- I'm guessing he will find more things to involve himself in his room alone when he reaches about age 12).  

Of course, this kind of thing only works during the socialization process, and counts on the parent remaining of a figure of authority who deserves respect.  Kids may not know much, but it takes them only a second to spot a hypocrite.  Don't beat a kid and tell him not to use violence to resolve issues; don't scream at a kid and tell him to be respectful of others.  They see right through you.  Not trying to be preachy- just repeating here what I am reminding myself of constantly; I know I'll inevitably fall short, it's how badly that matters.

----------


## kingwilly

> Originally Posted by DrivingForce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Whiteshiva
> ...


Agreed, I have never hit my child, there is never good enough cause for it.

In fact, one can also achieve the same negative effect by just yelling at a child. On the few occasions that I have exploded and yelled at my boy, I have seen the damage down and regretted it. 

One can hit without using fists or hands. and both methods are wrong and counterproductive.

----------


## benlovesnuk

if a kid pisses you off, then dont do the thing that they might expect you to do as a tool to use against you,

 instead bore the living sh*t out of them with some teaching like algebra or remembering 100 points to pi......................then they'll never do it again :Smile:

----------


## MeMock

Smack? Yes I do.

Beat? Never.

----------


## Whiteshiva

> Thank you for the explanation, now i understand.
> 
> My apologies in that case.
> 
> Admitadely, i got you mixed up with the original OP.


No worries, mate.

This week, the little brat will be forced to drink sulphuric acid, after which I will slice him in two with a bread knife - if he's lucky!




Sorry guys, it is Friday, and we need to lighten up a bit - or at least I do! 

I am off to the twins' Halloween celebrations at the kindergarten, after which it is straight back home for some more fatal beatings :Smile:

----------


## Norton

> I am off to the twins' Halloween celebrations at the kindergarten, after which it is straight back home for some more fatal beatings


Beat em good before the party.  Real blood is scary stuff on Halloween.

----------


## DrivingForce

> Originally Posted by Whiteshiva
> 
> I am off to the twins' Halloween celebrations at the kindergarten, after which it is straight back home for some more fatal beatings
> 
> 
> Beat em good before the party. Real blood is scary stuff on Halloween.


easy to cover too...  :Smile:

----------


## Marmite the Dog

WS - 

Some of the others have commented on their Thai wives having very different ideas about childrearing. Did you need to train your missus or was she on the ball from the start?

----------


## DrivingForce

> And does any of you honestly think you can teach compassion and insight by using violence or threats of violence?


i'm nothing if not compassionate and I also had a very abusive step father too..I think honestly it has made me more compassionate about other peoples circumstances and peoples feelings...you can't understand those feelings if you haven't experienced the loss of them yourself....kinda like the grass is greenier on the other side, taking what you have for granted..

----------


## Whiteshiva

> WS - 
> 
> Some of the others have commented on their Thai wives having very different ideas about child rearing. Did you need to train your missus or was she on the ball from the start?


Actually she came around eventually - the boys were (and to some extent still are) behaving like angels around me, and got up to all kind of mischief when she was alone with them - smacking and screaming at them apparently didn't help much in the long run - she only admitted to the smacking long after she had stopped it, knowing damn well my feelings on it.

She has now been watching episodes of "Supernanny" with Jo Frost, an English nanny who in my opinion is an absolute ace when it comes to kids.  I also bought one of Jo Frost's book that we have both read with much interest. 

For those of you not familiar with Jo Frost, she has featured in a reality television series where she goes to homes (in the US) with unruly kids and basically whips them into shape in no time (a week, I think is the norm).  Interestingly enough - the source of the children's bad behaviour quite often (always?) lies with one or both of the parents, rather than the kid(s).  Strongly recommended!

She's not too bad looking either.... :Smile: 

Supernanny's Jo Frost for Child Care and Parenting advice | B4UGoGaGa

----------


## Whiteshiva

> Originally Posted by Whiteshiva
> 
> And does any of you honestly think you can teach compassion and insight by using violence or threats of violence?
> 
> 
> i'm nothing if not compassionate and I also had a very abusive step father too..I think honestly it has made me more compassionate about other peoples circumstances and peoples feelings...you can't understand those feelings if you haven't experienced the loss of them yourself....kinda like the grass is greenier on the other side, taking what you have for granted..


I am sure you are the exception rather than the rule - otherwise we would all have to be abusive in order to teach kids compassion.  I am pretty sure there are better ways.....

----------


## November Rain

> Smack? Yes I do.
> 
> Beat? Never.


Surprisingly, I've just read the entire thread & this is the first time I've seen anyone differentiate between the two.

Sorry, WS, you're probably going to think of me as a barbarian, but I have smacked littl'un. Open palm up to 3 times on the bottom. It's not my usual recourse, by any means & I'll admit it's usually been accompanied by extreme emotion (usually fear) like the time he stole a lighter and set fire to a load of towels drying outside. I was terrified by what he might have done to himself. He got smacked & sent to his room. After we had both calmed down I went & talked to him about why I had been so upset as to smack him & what could have happened to him.
Maybe my reaction was wrong. It could have been. To my mind parenting is a learning curve. 

Interestingly, the 'it never did me any harm' argument seems to be evenly split. As children, both my sister & I got smacked (never beaten), me more than her, as I would stick up for her. She is now vehemently anti-smacking with her daughters & resents my parents (particularly my Mum, as Dad's dead). I do smack littl'un rarely & have no resentment whatsoever towards my parents, more identifying the sorts of stresses they had to go through. My Mum is in my top two most loved people (the other being my son).

Getting back to the point, 'beating' implies a prolonged or severe physical punishment that no-one, child nor adult, should ever have to endure. I really don't see a smack on the bottom in the same way. But that's just my take on it.

----------


## robuzo

I don't think anyone in their right mind would advocate beating a kid so he grows up to have more compassion for the beaten.  I think the pattern, if I might use myself as an example, is to create an individual more prone to violence and violent overreaction to threat when young, who with luck and a little guidance matures into someone who usually has a handle on it.  I say "usually" because the one thing sure to cause me to become unreasonable, to the point of going berserk, is to see a child abused.  I know I'm not alone in this.

What they say about prisoners is true from all accounts I've heard- if a guy gets locked up for abusing children and the other inmates find out he's going to be shit out of luck.  The reason for this is pretty obvious- most guys inside have a history of being abused as kids.

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## Nawty

Well I guess we have 2 different ways of rearing our kids....one thing is for sure, I know mine and by the sounds of it yours, will grow up caring and respecting their parents because we care and respect them and tell them all the time.

The arguement of 'well I turned out alright' is not something to ignore...it is living experimentation. it takes a lot of years to pass to find out if a smack has effected those children (us). Same experiment can be used to see if the further abused kids, punched, beaten etc and even sexually abused kids turn out ok and if they then do the same to their kids or would never consider it. Some do, some do not....personal makeup then comes into play and each individual is different of course.

WS's oldest kids are 3 i think, my son is 6, nearly 7. I never had to smack him either until he was around 4 or 5yo. Still at this age you can count the number of times I have smacked him on 2 hands. The 3 yo girl is different, she has learnt and picked up bad habits from him, she has had a few already. But she already smacks me back.....little shit

And I will always say that when all the other efforts of sitting in their room, no cartoons, no whatever etc have not worked and the same thing repeatedly happens, then it is time for a smack and hope that the action of this, whatever it does to them, stings a little, embarrasses or such them, that they will use this to remember it next time and I have found it works after all other avenues exhausted.

As for me not remembering why we got the strap as youngsters....I can assure I do not remember the wrongdoing, but I do remember not to be naughty again. Hard to remember any real childhood wrongdoings with particular circumstances....maybe it was the time we built a penny bunger powered marble launcher out of pipe and wood and fired it through Dads garage walls repeatedly. So many things, to many to link to a certain flogging.

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## Texpat



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## DrivingForce

> Surprisingly, I've just read the entire thread & this is the first time I've seen anyone differentiate between the two.


I beg to differ NR I differentiated between the 2 in virtually every one of my responses..

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## jimmymck

Dirty Dog sounds like you have and still have a great time here in Thailand...!! with your tales of woe here ,fighting, beating your son, fighting with your missus,dealing with stupid Thais everyday,not wanting your son to become one,black outs, not drinking the brew Singh , why dont you fok of to the home land again and get back to being a twat there.. at least your fit in alot more..

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## slimboyfat

i did beat my son a few years ago after it emerged that he had been stealing from my wallet (he was about 8 or 9 at the time).

i did feel bad about it afterwards, but as far as i know he has not done it since.

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## November Rain

^^^ Sorry, DF. Obviously missed that, though I did agree with a lot of your responses.

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## DrivingForce

both my boys almost 4 and almost 5 respectively just tonight fighting over something meaningless as children often do when they should be picking up their toys that they have been taught to do since they were old enough to play with em.. 

i'm trying to make dinner and have to stop, come in and break up a fight sit them both down and have a talk telling them why that's bad (summarizing) and why they need to help daddy by doing their own chores and not fighting, no spanking just talk and make them apologize to each other for fighting.

walk out to cook dinner and not even 2 minutes later fighting again. now i'm sorry but if I keep talking to them I never get dinner made and they don't eat which makes this an even more difficult task as they get even more hungry and more impatient and as well if that happens that means they have me on a string wrapped around their finger doing their bidding.. come back in and now they both get a bottom paddling and after that they are all cooperation and huggie kissy doing their chores and letting me cook dinner, sorry but it's just not realistic for every child...  :Sad:

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## DrivingForce

> I don't think anyone in their right mind would advocate beating a kid so he grows up to have more compassion for the beaten.


your right no one in their right mind would that's why no one did...as that's not the lesson being taught but merely a rebuttal to the incriminating suggestion that anyone having been spanked as a child is any less compassionate to anyone who hasn't...






> ^^^ Sorry, DF. Obviously missed that, though I did agree with a lot of your responses.


ok NR that's some consolation then, maybe I was a bit more opaque than I relized when I posted them...but there was most definately an attempt to redirect from the term beating to the term spanking or discipline which I believe is a far cry from a beating...

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## dirtydog

> Go on, keep justyfying your actions. It's none of my business at the end of the day,





> WS didn't hit his boy. The boy accidentally banged his lip as kids will do.


Jesus jones you seem to be some really stoopid cnut, your lack of reading skills is foking awful, maybe you should consider a forum in your native language because you make it quite obvious you struggle with the English Language, your assertions of ws beating and injuring his child clearly show that your reading skills and lack of the English language is a bit shite.

Anyway, lets get back to the original post, my son is 15 and 6 foot, he is in college not primary school, so there is a bit of difference.

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## Thormaturge

I recall from my days in junior school, aged around ten, the class was grouped around piano, with our teacher, Mrs. Long, playing Christmas carols to which we were singing. She ceased playing , walked over to me and whacked me hard, then returned to the piano.

I asked what she had hit me for and was told "you know what that was for"

No I didn't.

I still don't some 43 years later.

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## Nawty

I know.

You was either looking up little Jennies dress.

or

Looking up the teachers dress.

or

Singing that classic christmas carol...'santa, where's me fuckin bike ya cnut...'

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## Mr Earl

Teenagers are infuriating, especially a 15 year old. A whack now and then should do him some good. I know it's not PC, fock it.

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## Rigger

I have no problems giving the kids a light smack with a open hand on the ass or hand.

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