#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > Business, Finance & Economics in Thailand >  >  Bangkok's property boom towers above bubble fears

## StrontiumDog

*Bangkok's property boom towers above bubble fears - The China Post
*
*Bangkok's property boom towers above bubble fears*

Updated Monday, August 1, 2011 9:03 pm TWN, By Janesara Fugal ,AFp

BANGKOK  -- A 77-story skyscraper is set to become the latest, and tallest,  addition to Bangkok's ever-changing skyline, already transformed by a  construction boom that has raised fears of a property bubble.     

Variously described on  Internet forums as looking “like it has been eaten by giant termites”  and reflecting “the chaos of Bangkok,” the MahaNakorn — Great Metropolis  — will tower over the Thai capital when it is finished in 2014.

At 314 meters (1,036 feet), it will be the city's tallest building, but  size was not what mattered, said Sorapoj Techakraisri, head of PACE  Development, which began building the skyscraper in June.

“I just wanted something unique, something interesting,” he told AFP.

MahaNakorn's unusual pixelated spiral design was created by German  architect Ole Scheeren, who was behind Beijing's futuristic China  Central Television headquarters. 

The 19-billion-baht (US$640 million) tower will house apartments, a shopping center and a Ritz-Carlton hotel.

“When the economy gets better, the buildings go higher,” Sorapoj said.

Thailand's economic health appears robust, growing 7.8 percent in 2010  despite street protests by the opposition “Red Shirts” that brought  large areas of Bangkok to a standstill for two months.

An  ever-increasing number of pristine new apartment blocks jostle for space  in desirable areas, vying for customers with billboards written in  idiosyncratic English promise swanky lifestyles.

It is a far cry  from a decade ago, when the city was littered with the skeletal remains  of abandoned tower blocks, casualties of the 1997 Asian financial crisis  that devastated the region.

The Bank of Thailand has described  2010 as the “golden year for real estate businesses,” with strong demand  for homes — driven by low interest rates and increased consumer  confidence — causing a flurry of new building. 

This resulted in a  13.6 percent increase in registrations of new homes in Bangkok to the  highest level since the 1997 crisis, according to the bank's 2010 annual  report.

The bank said it would be “vigilant” for signs of a  bubble — which it defined as a “sharp” increase in asset prices combined  with strong growth in home loans. A bubble could then burst if demand  drops off and there is a glut of available properties.

Central bankers did not detect a bubble building, but raised concern over risk-taking in the sector. 

As demand slowed after the  June 2010 expiry of stimulus measures — such as two-year interest-free  home loans for first time buyers — developers increasingly resorted to  high-risk strategies in their fight to fill properties.

Homebuyers with “insufficient purchasing power or subprime customers”  were persuaded to buy, the bank said, while lenders also boosted the  number of loans at 90 percent or more of the property value.

To  help “maintain economic stability,” the bank responded by making some  high loan-to-value lending more expensive for financial institutions.

Property research group Agency for Real Estate Affairs (AREA) said it  had detected a build-up in oversupply and warned that the level would  become unsustainable.

Its figures show there were more than  135,000 unsold property units in Bangkok and its suburbs as of July  2011, including projects under construction. Another 100,000 units are  expected to come in to the market next year.

AREA president Sopon Pornchokchai said he could foresee an “upcoming bubble.”

“If something happened to our economy or politics, it could cause the bubble to burst,” he said.

But Kobsidthi Silpachai, head of markets and economic research at  Kasikorn Bank, said Thailand's economic health meant it was in a better  position than in 1997, adding that if a bubble did burst its impact  would be limited.

“If it did really happen it would certainly  affect industries related to real estate, like steel and cement, but it  would not affect other businesses,” he said.

Developer Sorapoj  shrugged off jitters over the health of the real estate sector, although  he conceded that the Red Shirt protests had hurt interest from foreign  investors.

He was confident Thailand's incoming leadership —  which is affiliated to the Red Shirts and won a thumping majority in the  July 3 election — would be able to avert any threats.

“I'm not worried about oversupply. The new government will do whatever it takes to prevent bubbles,” he said.

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## Agent_Smith

Some conceptual art of the building:



Anyone got a recent photo of the construction?  Will this thing really open or will it become another Sathorn Unique?

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## The Fresh Prince

> described on Internet forums as looking “like it has been eaten by giant termites” and reflecting “the chaos of Bangkok,”


Probably by a bunch of cynical old twats who failed as serious designers. In my opinion its a fantastic design that will hopefully lead the way in shaping Bangkoks skyline.




> Will this thing really open or will it become another Sathorn Unique?


Sales are going crazy at the moment and the projects looking good. With the money already invested and Ritz Carlton overseeing the project I would say that it will be completed as planned.

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## Hampsha

With 1,000,000 millionaires in China, there should be some support for the Bangkok market coming from China. The world's richest people from all countries are richer and richer and are more global everyday so you'd think that might help a bit anyways. It's the middle class that they say is weakening.

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## klong toey

There are at least 6 35 floor buildings near us,been finished at least a year now,some a lot more.
I reckon if any have more then 5% occupancy there doing well,all i see is a lot of empty buildings.

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## Seekingasylum

Credit created the current boom in building now focused fair and square upon the emerging middle classes and it will be the self same burden which will turn it into a crash.
Paying the equivalent of a full salary on mortgage repayment, service fees and utilities every month for the next 30 years may seem a good idea now but when jobs are lost and confidence goes the Bangkok boom will slide away just as quickly as it emerged.
The other market reliant on Chinese and Russian dosh is just as capricious. The Chinese are soon to appoint a new regime and most know that the days of exporting ill gotten gains in suitcases to HK and onwards have ended. The shift from an export led powerhouse economy to one domestic driven is fraught and nobody with any nous is expecting an easy ride.
Nothing new under the sun but one thing is for sure, the west isn't going to contribute much for the next decade.
Buying shoeboxes of 38 sm at 3.8million a pop when it amounts to more than 10 times the average " good " salary is a recipe for disaster.

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## Tom Sawyer

^
Finally a sensible post.

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## Agent_Smith

> Buying shoeboxes of 38 sm at 3.8million a pop when it amounts to more than 10 times the average " good " salary is a recipe for disaster.


Absolutely.  I made this same observation to my friends and coworkers back in the early 2000's when they were buying these cookie cutter monstrosities here in Las Vegas and paying mortgages that kept them one month away from the poor house.  Saw the writing on the wall back then, surprised no one else has learned from the housing folly in the U.S.

Easy credit seems to always precede economic disaster.

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## harrybarracuda

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> Buying shoeboxes of 38 sm at 3.8million a pop when it amounts to more than 10 times the average " good " salary is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> 
> Absolutely.  I made this same observation to my friends and coworkers back in the early 2000's when they were buying these cookie cutter monstrosities here in Las Vegas and paying mortgages that kept them one month away from the poor house.  Saw the writing on the wall back then, surprised no one else has learned from the housing folly in the U.S.
> 
> Easy credit seems to always precede economic disaster.


If by easy credit you meaning loaning money to people who patently cannot pay it back, you're right.

The sad thing is, in the last instance, those lending the money were perfectly aware of the fact and didn't give a shit.

They should be held accountable, otherwise the whole cycle is destined to repeat itself.

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## Agent_Smith

> If by easy credit you meaning loaning money to people who patently cannot pay it back, you're right.


Yes, using easy credit and purchasing things at falsely inflated values, creates a feedback effect until the whole thing comes crashing down.  Happened in the late 1920's in the U.S. and we're due for it again.  Look at how overvalued the NYSE is and yet the moneyed types are still investing in it hand over fist.  History repeating itself.

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## Albert Shagnasty

Sukhumvit 24 has about 8 new high-rises.

I was talking to a guy who owns 2 floors of one of them. I asked him how full the building was.

His reply.

"It was the strangest thing.. when we bought the unit we were told that it was 80% sold. We have been the only people living here since we first moved in"

If all these places were for rich foreigners on high foreign salaries then maybe the prices are about right. However there is only one rich foreigner for every 100 apartments. I think the prices will drop substantially in the near future.

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## Lorenzo

^ let me know when a 2 BR in a decent location drops to 1MM baht, then we can talk

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## Butterfly

> "It was the strangest thing.. when we bought the unit we were told that it was 80% sold. We have been the only people living here since we first moved in"


they will sell quickly because rich Thai buy them and keep them as a "savings account"

they have no intention to live in it or rent them, it's all about how many you own and blast about it between their friends

that's basically the business model of those property developers and it works,

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## Albert Shagnasty

> ^ let me know when a 2 BR in a decent location drops to 1MM baht, then we can talk


Unlikely,

But you might see them for 3-3.5

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## ltnt

Why is this a noteworthy topic?  Same old crap, same old responses.

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## Bower

Do Thais always aspire to purchase a new build or are they happy to purchase previously owned property to live in ?

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## Satonic

> Do Thais always aspire to purchase a new build or are they happy to purchase previously owned property to live in ?


In my experience Thais will generally, if they can stick to new builds.

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## Bower

> Originally Posted by Bower
> 
> 
> Do Thais always aspire to purchase a new build or are they happy to purchase previously owned property to live in ?
> 
> 
> In my experience Thais will generally, if they can stick to new builds.


So perhaps Thais buy them for investment and expect higher capital gain (if not lived in) than rental income ?

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## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by harrybarracuda
> 
> If by easy credit you meaning loaning money to people who patently cannot pay it back, you're right.
> 
> 
> Yes, using easy credit and purchasing things at falsely inflated values, creates a feedback effect until the whole thing comes crashing down. Happened in the late 1920's in the U.S. and we're due for it again. Look at how overvalued the NYSE is and yet the moneyed types are still investing in it hand over fist. History repeating itself.


Some saw it coming. Over on the darkside (or maybe it was on TD actually) I recall a member (xbusman) explaining how his company in LA that owned many revenue properties around the city realized how exposed they were - and for the same reasons - the three-times earning ratio had mushroomed and had become unsustainable. He said they divested about a year before the crash. 

So some would say lucky - but I'd say astute. Another example of trusting your own instincts.

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## Seekingasylum

> Do Thais always aspire to purchase a new build or are they happy to purchase previously owned property to live in ?


In S.E. Asia, and in Thailand particularly, it is generally an illiquid market. They do not buy what they perceive to be second hand. 

A case in point. A falang acquaintance bought in Thonglor a brand new top spec apartment of 120sm on a high floor for 8 million bt several years ago. He designed a full European kitchen which was fitted during construction. He has tried to sell it at the same price for the past 3 years but hasn't had anyone even come to look at it. Since then hundreds of flats have been built and snapped up by Thai who are happily paying the same price for something half the size constructed by spec developers not enjoying the same reputation as the company that built his condo.

It's crazy but that's the way they think. It's the same story in Penang. An acquaintance in the real estate business there can't shift a condo unless it is to a westerner and it is always at a price cheaper than the original.

Selling to make a profit is generally not viable unless the condo was bought by a flipper who never occupied it and it is sold as virgin new. But then as far as I am aware if it is sold within 2 years of purchase a tax on the profit is due.

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## StrontiumDog

*Bangkok Post : Condos mushrooming across the capital
*
*Condos mushrooming across the capital*

*Bangkok is experiencing a boom in unit growth as the market  rides a wave of positive post-election sentiment and investors cash in  on expansion to the transportation network* 
Published: 18/09/2011 at 12:00 AMNewspaper section: Spectrum
 Despite tougher competition in the condominium  sector, there were still many units launched in the first half of this  year _  32,549 to be exact, bringing the total available supply to  251,327 units by the end of June.

 

 Dividing the new launches by location, 19% were in the city centre,  23% in fringe areas and the lion's share, 51%, in peripheral areas. The  Srinakarin and Bang Na area is a notable new destination for condominium  development, with 7,933 units launched in the first half of 2011, or  about 42% of the new supply in the suburban area.

 The market along Bang Na-Trat Road has been growing strongly as a  number of shopping centres are scheduled to open in this location  between now and 2013. The skytrain extension from On Nut to Bearing has  also challenged property developers to introduce new residential  projects in the area. Another blossoming area in the suburbs is Chaeng  Watthana, with 7,395 units launched during the first half of this year,  representing 39.1% of new supply in the suburban area. Chaeng Watthana  has become a major magnet for developers seeking to tap the thousands of  people who would like to move closer to their workplace at the huge new  Government Centre.

 The majority of supply in the city fringe area has been around Rama  IX and Ratchadaphisek, with 5,276 units or 72% of total units launched  there in response to increased demand. Construction of the Central Rama  IX shopping centre is due to be completed by the end of the year.  Ratchadaphisek is also being positioned as a new central business  district of Bangkok when multinational firms and the Stock Exchange of  Thailand move their headquarters into the area. With a large number of  jobs moving into this growth area, investors are taking a chance of  reviving the junction.

 The property investment climate is expected to be positive after the  election. The premium residential market showed consolidation in the  second quarter of 2011. It has yet to return to the heady days prior to  the global financial crisis of 2008-2009 but the success of some  projects points the way to a recovery. The target buyers of premium  condominiums include executives of financial institution and consulting  companies in Hong Kong and Singapore. Their purpose of buying is for  investment, while some prefer having second homes in Bangkok.

 However, the overall take-up rate of Bangkok condominiums has  decreased from 48.3% in the second half of 2010 to 45.8% in the first  half of 2011. In terms of unit numbers, take-up dropped to 14,907 in the  first half of this year from 24,895 in the second half of last year.  This reflected the fact that the medium- to low-end market had slowed  over the period. A total of 57,385 medium- to low-end condominium units  were added during the second half of last year to the middle of this  year, while no premium supply was added.

 Condominium development has already pushed up land prices in  locations along the extended route of the Bangkok Mass Transit System.  Overall condominium prices increased by 6% on average in the first half  of 2011. The sharp increase was in Grade B Condominiums located in the  city fringe area, especially the Ratchadaphisek area, with about a 10%  increase from last year. The prices of condominiums located in the  peripheral area remained stable while some projects increased slightly,  with only a 1% rise, while condominiums located in the city area  increased in price by 5%.

 

 Further improvement is foreseen in the premium market because Bangkok  is still a top-three destination in the eyes of investors because of  the lifestyle here. The interest in luxury Thai property is being driven  by an uptick in optimism about the overall political and economic  environment in Thailand. The new government has made significant  promises about stimulating economic growth immediately. Major  infrastructure projects are finally likely to progress as well. This  would provide long-term support to economic expansion and be reflected  in asset price appreciation, particularly for luxury properties. There  will be the additional supply added to the luxury market in the second  half of 2011 and 2012 as a result.

 The medium- to low-end market will slow down after a dramatic number  of launches since the second half of last year. This is likely to create  pricing pressures and competition among condominiums located in the  peripheral areas of Bangkok.

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## sabang

> the lifestyle here


The lifestyle here, as it relates to Bangkok at least, means the night life mainly.
Otherwise it's congestion, pollution, and uneven sidewalks that double as open air impromptu restaurants and street markets.
At least it's cheap, and it's Thailand. I'm tossing up whether to get a 'pied a terre' in Bangkok or Pattaya actually.

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## phomsanuk

Rerun of '97

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## Tom Sawyer

> Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
> 
> the lifestyle here
> 
> 
> The lifestyle here, as it relates to Bangkok at least, means the night life mainly.
> Otherwise it's congestion, pollution, and uneven sidewalks that double as open air impromptu restaurants and street markets.
> At least it's cheap, and it's Thailand. I'm tossing up whether to get a 'pied a terre' in Bangkok or Pattaya actually.


Hard to say in'it.

A pied a terre in BKK probably makes more sense, unless you think you're really "up" for all that Patters has to offer when you're 60+. 

It may make more sense to have the studio in BKK and simply rent a place in patters. Then again it probably makes infinitely more sense to rent a place in both and keep your money safe and sound in Aus!

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## socal

> Credit created the current boom in building now focused fair and square upon the emerging middle classes and it will be the self same burden which will turn it into a crash.
> Paying the equivalent of a full salary on mortgage repayment, service fees and utilities every month for the next 30 years may seem a good idea now but when jobs are lost and confidence goes the Bangkok boom will slide away just as quickly as it emerged.
> The other market reliant on Chinese and Russian dosh is just as capricious. The Chinese are soon to appoint a new regime and most know that the days of exporting ill gotten gains in suitcases to HK and onwards have ended. The shift from an export led powerhouse economy to one domestic driven is fraught and nobody with any nous is expecting an easy ride.
> Nothing new under the sun but one thing is for sure, the west isn't going to contribute much for the next decade.
> Buying shoeboxes of 38 sm at 3.8million a pop when it amounts to more than 10 times the average " good " salary is a recipe for disaster.


Unlike the west, Thailand is a creditor nation. It has almost a quarter trillion in forex reserves. As long as they keep buying gold and letting the baht rise, Thailand will remain economically sound. They can afford some waste, on stuff like this.

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## nostromo

> Originally Posted by thegent
> 
> 
> Credit created the current boom in building now focused fair and square upon the emerging middle classes and it will be the self same burden which will turn it into a crash.
> Paying the equivalent of a full salary on mortgage repayment, service fees and utilities every month for the next 30 years may seem a good idea now but when jobs are lost and confidence goes the Bangkok boom will slide away just as quickly as it emerged.
> The other market reliant on Chinese and Russian dosh is just as capricious. The Chinese are soon to appoint a new regime and most know that the days of exporting ill gotten gains in suitcases to HK and onwards have ended. The shift from an export led powerhouse economy to one domestic driven is fraught and nobody with any nous is expecting an easy ride.
> Nothing new under the sun but one thing is for sure, the west isn't going to contribute much for the next decade.
> Buying shoeboxes of 38 sm at 3.8million a pop when it amounts to more than 10 times the average " good " salary is a recipe for disaster.
> 
> ...


I trust in Thailand, as well for some of indicators you mentioned. THB currency rates will remain cryptical though

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## The Bold Rodney

> Originally Posted by thegent 
> Credit created the current boom in building now focused fair and square upon the emerging middle classes and it will be the self same burden which will turn it into a crash.
> Paying the equivalent of a full salary on mortgage repayment, service fees and utilities every month for the next 30 years may seem a good idea now but when jobs are lost and confidence goes the Bangkok boom will slide away just as quickly as it emerged.
> The other market reliant on Chinese and Russian dosh is just as capricious. The Chinese are soon to appoint a new regime and most know that the days of exporting ill gotten gains in suitcases to HK and onwards have ended. The shift from an export led powerhouse economy to one domestic driven is fraught and nobody with any nous is expecting an easy ride.
> Nothing new under the sun but one thing is for sure, the west isn't going to contribute much for the next decade.
> Buying shoeboxes of 38 sm at 3.8million a pop when it amounts to more than 10 times the average " good " salary is a recipe for disaster


My God this is a difficult thing to admit but what "theoldfart" writes makes absolute sense. 

However, saying that I've spoken to several people who sell real estate in Bangkok who insist prices are not only stagnant and many properties are unsold, they also insist they're selling next to fuck all squared (the last twelve months).

I'm told the real buyers (Thai) are focussing away from Bangkok and other buyers are Asian farangs, so my question is...is the so called property boom being fuelled predominantly by Thais and Asian farangs not wishing to live in Bangkok?  :Confused:  





> Unlike the west, Thailand is a creditor nation. It has almost a quarter trillion in forex reserves. As long as they keep buying gold and letting the baht rise, Thailand will remain economically sound. They can afford some waste, on stuff like this.


Unless of course you happen to have a serious case of "Gold Fever" scenario? Maybe like someone who has to borrow money to speculate on GOLD in the first place?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## baby maker

> However, the overall take-up rate of Bangkok condominiums has decreased from 48.3% in the second half of 2010 to 45.8% in the first half of 2011. In terms of unit numbers, take-up dropped to 14,907 in the first half of this year from 24,895 in the second half of last year. This reflected the fact that the medium- to low-end market had slowed over the period. A total of 57,385 medium- to low-end condominium units were added during the second half of last year to the middle of this year, while no premium supply was added.


_Not to be obtuse...but this is probably the key. If you build with a 100% mark up on cost and sell one out of two...you are still in the game. When you are useing debt from the fractional banking system because every thing you have won so far is in the pot on the table...your latest bet...you of needs have to be upbeat, even if the rest of the world says there is a financial crisis._ 





> Unlike the west, Thailand is a creditor nation. It has almost a quarter trillion in forex reserves. As long as they keep buying gold and letting the baht rise, Thailand will remain economically sound. They can afford some waste, on stuff like this.


_socal...on your most recient posts, it can only be said you are as well informed as the rest of us...._

_that being the case....how can you think that the view you hold is a definative solution to the future turmoil that is presenting...a future that will not be avoided by any of us...or are you like the rest of us...afraid to admitt you don't have a solution..._

_The exit marked GOLD is a dogmar...not a solution...it's no different to the property developer above who has all his winnings on the table....and can do nothing but...continue to play..._

_as said before.....delusional and dangerous...to others..._

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## Agent_Smith

^True that.  I made an offhand prediction that gold will drop back to the 300's in the next few years and Socal just about flipped out.  He's definitely backed himself into a corner, I think.

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## socal

> ^True that.  I made an offhand prediction that gold will drop back to the 300's in the next few years and Socal just about flipped out.  He's definitely backed himself into a corner, I think.


Gold and central banking is obviously not a topic the average person knows very much about.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  It is relevant to the topic though. When the US dollar does the same thing the Thai baht did in 1997, Thailand better have diversified the asset side of their balance sheet, because if they don't, then a fair amount of the wealth in BKK will evaporate. And this funky new building might not get finished.

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## Butterfly

> Gold and central banking is obviously not a topic the average person knows very much about


couldn't agree more socal  :rofl:

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## Tom Sawyer

I've been watching property markets as potential investments in various places - namely Bangkok, Phnom Penh, Singapore for East Asia and Las Vegas, Seattle and Vancouver Canada for North America.

To be honest - all have depressed me. I want to invest, but all the indicators are wrong. There's too much to post here about how that conclusion is reached - but again a bit of common sense and gut instinct probably serves as well about why that is likely to be true. Vegas comes out pretty well - but still dropping (as with the overall US prognosis - though Chinese gamers could start investing in the housing market there and drive up prices) and Phnom Penh has traction - but no rule of law and too easy to have it taken away from you. Malaysia is another possibility - but a backwater (at present. Future??). The rest are way overpriced, like Singapore, Bangkok and Vancouver. I ned to re-check Seattle come to think of it.

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## Professorfart

So let me get this right!

The consensus seems to be that (wealthy) Thais are buying all these new condos merely as status symbols.

Therefore - according to the Thai buying habits (as perceived by posters here - therefore probably utter shite) these units will be worthless to them in several years should the building boom continue, as their purchases will be seen as obsolete by the buying Thai public as they will no longer be new? 

So what you are pretty much saying it that Thai buyers are just seeing their several million baht waste away over the passing of time? I can't see it myself.

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## socal

> I've been watching property markets as potential investments in various places - namely Bangkok, Phnom Penh, Singapore for East Asia and Las Vegas, Seattle and Vancouver Canada for North America.
> 
> To be honest - all have depressed me. I want to invest, but all the indicators are wrong. There's too much to post here about how that conclusion is reached - but again a bit of common sense and gut instinct probably serves as well about why that is likely to be true. Vegas comes out pretty well - but still dropping (as with the overall US prognosis - though Chinese gamers could start investing in the housing market there and drive up prices) and Phnom Penh has traction - but no rule of law and too easy to have it taken away from you. Malaysia is another possibility - but a backwater (at present. Future??). The rest are way overpriced, like Singapore, Bangkok and Vancouver. I ned to re-check Seattle come to think of it.


I wouldn't get in property as an investment for 10 years at least. Look at what Japan property prices did after their bubble popped in the 80's. Japan is the only place I would be looking at real estate.

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## Agent_Smith

> Vegas comes out pretty well - but still dropping


To be an owner-occupier then Las Vegas is a great market to buy, but for investment purposes (rent or flip) then stay away for at least 5 years.  Banks got tons of inventory and they are letting it out in dribs and drabs to prevent the bottom from completely dropping out.

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## Lorenzo

> I just wanted something unique, something interesting, he told AFP.


something to get a HO to notice me

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## terry57

> Hard to say in'it.
> 
> A pied a terre in BKK probably makes more sense, unless you think you're really "up" for all that Patters has to offer when you're 60+. 
> 
> It may make more sense to have the studio in BKK and simply rent a place in patters. Then again it probably makes infinitely more sense to rent a place in both and keep your money safe and sound in Aus!



Once again it boils down to ones financial situation, if one has money to blow why not buy a pad in Thailand as compared to the real world there quite good value.

On the other hand if one is the average Joe and wants an uncomplicated life and be free to move around  then the smart money is on renting. 

Rents are cheap compared to back home and the quality can be good if prepared to take ones time and hunt around.

I will be renting for sure.

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## Professorfart

> I will be renting for sure.


A very wise move. 

I've rented here for 20 years on and off.

Even though people say to me it's "dead" money, it's not as "dead" as having "your" house ripped off by some tart and your life savings vaporised in the process. 

I've yet to meet one single non-Thai who's ever made money through property here. Not one in twenty years, apart from your usual bullshite merchants that is...

Frankly the money I've "wasted" on renting over the years seems to have been money well spent given the hassles and huge risks ownership involves.

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## terry57

^

The thing is Thailand is such a basket case as far as a farang owning anything goes , plus the uncertainty of ever changing governments plus the lack of anything that resembles a secure and reliable legal system plus the fact that everything is stacked against a farang  plus the fact the cops are corrupt as fuk and it goes on and on and on.

Dudes putting there financial future in the hands of a Thai female by buying houses and land in there name sends shivers down my spine. I mean fuk me Dudes, Kudos to you lot, your a lot more adventurous than me but I think I'll remain a complete fuking coward if you don't mind.    :Smile:  

Sure we can own a condo but then you got the problem of some absolute fuking nutter moving in next door that wants to fuk you around and then its check mate. 

The farang is well fuked once again as selling the condo ain't going to be easy and more than likely one will lose money on the deal.

Buying anything in the land of fuk ups is a huge risk that I don't need but saying all that,   Thailand is a cracking place as long as one keeps things nice, simple and totally flexible and just indulge in all the good shit that abounds over there.

Just don't get too serious about things and life is sweet.

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## baby maker

_Tas...Would have to agree...this place is one huge fuck up..._

_haveing said that bought two blocks for my kids...registered in their names..._
_can't be sold until they are twenty..._

_and i'd be perpared to wager...the place will still be a fuck up...._

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## terry57

> _Tas...Would have to agree...this place is one huge fuck up..._
> 
> _haveing said that bought two blocks for my kids...registered in their names..._
> _can't be sold until they are twenty..._



Well you know what will happen there Bro.

You will die, they will then sell up that land when they are twenty and go on a massive whore, Ya-Ba, Samsong, mull and piss drinking bender.

The rest they will waist.    :Smile:

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## mikesch4ever

Im just putting my money on the bank and wil wait until the bubble blows or until the currency rate will be fine. After will try to get a decent house in one of these house parks. As far as I see there are currently so many houses and condo towers built, that I can hardly image there are enough sellers or renters. But I'm no expert. Anyway I think the prizes they now call for condos or house in BKK are not sensible.

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## Professorfart

> Dudes putting there financial future in the hands of a Thai female by buying houses and land in there name sends shivers down my spine. I mean fuk me Dudes, Kudos to you lot, your a lot more adventurous than me but I think I'll remain a complete fuking coward if you don't mind.


Very well put and very polite for TD Terry. 

By "Thai Female"  (in 99% of cases) you mean "Thai Whore" of course, which makes it all the more bewildering that such numbers so this.
I wonder as well how many do it inside the first few months of meeting said whore...? 
I bet it's a high percentage of the silly c*ntstruck old fools...

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## baby maker

> Originally Posted by baby maker
> 
> 
>  
> _Tas...Would have to agree...this place is one huge fuck up..._
> 
> _haveing said that bought two blocks for my kids...registered in their names..._
> _can't be sold until they are twenty..._
> 
> ...


 

*YER!....AIN'T IT GRAND....REAL CHIPS OFF THE OLD BLOCK..*

*AND EVEN BETTER....I'LL BE DEAD...UNABLE TO GIVE GRATITIOUS ADVICE..*

*WHAT MORE COULD A MAN ASK FOR....*



*TAS....YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE ONE OF MY FAVIOURATE PEOPLE AMOUNST*
*"THE TEAKDOORIANS"....*



*JUST SHOWS HOW PATHETIC OUR LIVES ARE....*

*YOURS AND MINE......*

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## Tom Sawyer

> I wouldn't get in property as an investment for 10 years at least. Look at what Japan property prices did after their bubble popped in the 80's. Japan is the only place I would be looking at real estate.


Slide the whole graph forward 10-15 years and you change the name to USA. Canada will follow in the next couple of years I think. Maybe not so sharpish, but I'd guess 20-30% depending on location. The real recession is just beginning. Forget 2009.

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## socal

> Originally Posted by baby maker
> 
> 
> 
> _Tas...Would have to agree...this place is one huge fuck up..._
> 
> _haveing said that bought two blocks for my kids...registered in their names..._
> _can't be sold until they are twenty..._
> 
> ...


 :rofl:  :rofl: 

Is that normal for Thai people ? Seriously... 

I need to marry a Jew :Confused:

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## Professorfart

> I need to marry a Jew


You need to get a woman first...

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## StrontiumDog

*Bangkok Post : Inner city soaring in height and prices
*
*Inner city soaring in height and prices*

*Increasing costs and tighter regulations are driving developers from the core of the capital  to its outskirts   * 
Published:  2/10/2011 at 12:00 AMNewspaper section: Spectrum
 Land prices underpin any property market and are  affected by many factors, especially population shifts and municipal  planning. In Bangkok there has been significant movement of the  population from the centre to the suburbs and also to neighbouring  provinces.

 

 From data gathered from the National Statistics Office, the  "official" population in Bangkok over the decade from 2000 to 2010 grew  by less than 1%, from 5,680,380 to 5,712,636. Although hundreds of  thousands of people from other provinces have moved to the capital for  work and a higher standard of living, they stay in rented apartments or  houses and do not register in Bangkok. Unofficial estimates put the real  population of the capital anywhere between eight and 10 million.

 At the same time, the figures show that the official population in  the inner city area decreased by about 17% over the past decade. This is  because many people who lived in the inner city area of Bangkok moved  to the suburbs and other provinces nearby due to significant increases  in land prices in the inner city, especially along mass transit lines.  Many therefore sold their properties and moved to other locations.

 In the past four to five years condominiums have became synonymous  with the new modern urban lifestyle that encompasses a wide demographic  and significant price differentials. With so many developers seeking  good land plots along mass transit lines for condominiums, existing  properties in the area have been affected, especially townhouses and  shophouses. As a result, landed residential owners in Bangkok are able  to sell their properties to developers for condominium development for  higher than anticipated prices. The predominant property type in some  locations in Bangkok has also changed from old shophouses to commercial  or condominium projects. This is notable in areas such as the Pathumwan  intersection, and both sides of Sukhumvit, Ratchadaphisek and Krung Thon  Buri roads.

 The intersection of Phloenchit and Witthayu roads currently commands  the highest freehold land prices in Bangkok, with transactions valued at  approximately 1.5 million baht per square wah (four square metres),  representing an increase from the past five years of more than 70%.  Sukhumvit showed the highest increase in the past five years by more  than 190%, due to the growth of condominium development. Other locations  also increased by 10-20% per year.

 The average selling price of some luxury condominium projects in  prime locations of Bangkok is now more than 200,000 baht per square  metre, while the average selling price along mass transit lines is  approximately 135,000 baht. This has been rising every year due to  increasing land prices, as well as a reduction in unit sizes to keep  them affordable.

 New Bangkok town planning regulations scheduled to be announced  before the end of 2013 will affect land prices in Bangkok, especially in  the inner city area. Expected limitations of building height and floor  area ratio of building developments on land plots located in narrow sois  mean they will be less attractive for high-rise condominiums. This in  turn will lead to negative pricing pressures. Prices of land plots on  the main roads in inner city areas are likely to record further gains,  global economic conditions permitting, which in turn will lead to even  higher condominium prices.

 Mass transit lines have become a main factor for city expansion as  developers start to bank land along proposed new lines. Residential  projects in some locations have increased hugely in tandem with a rise  in population. One example is Bangkok Yai district which in 2010 had a  population of 114,000 _ more than double the figure from 2000. This was  due to proposed development plans of mass-transit lines during the past  10 years which attracted people to move into the area in anticipation of  future improved access to the centre of the city. Other locations in  Bangkok suburbs and some districts of other provinces are also affected  by anticipated mass-transit lines.

 Land prices in the outlying areas of Bangkok remain lower than in the  inner city, which makes it suitable for land development, with selling  prices of less than three million baht per unit for the middle- to  lower-end market. Townhouses will become a popular residential type, in a  similar fashion to the trend seen along mass-transit lines in other  urban and suburban areas around the world that extend farther from the  city, leading to longer commuting times. With high-speed trains slated  for the future, even areas such as Chon Buri and Pattaya will become  part of a larger Bangkok conurbation.

 Overall, the pattern of Bangkok's development is still fluid. Over  the next 20 years the city will undergo further transformations that  will define it for the rest of the 21st century.

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## loll

prices for cheap condos in BKK are still going strong
but rentals are falling fast, even in the premium segment
6400 THB/Mo for a new condo that cost 1.6 mio
10000 THB/Mo for the same
25000 THB/Mo for an old condo with a retail price of 6.5 mio

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## Albert Shagnasty

[QUOTE=baby maker;1883365]


> Originally Posted by baby maker
> 
> 
>  
> _Tas...Would have to agree...this place is one huge fuck up..._
> 
> _haveing said that bought two blocks for my kids...registered in their names..._
> _can't be sold until they are twenty..._
> 
> ...


the freedoms in that knowledge. one life - live it.

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## StrontiumDog

Thai-ASEAN News Network

New Land Valuation Announced; Bangkok's Silom Area Most Expensive 

UPDATE : 29 December 2011 

*The Treasury Department has unveiled a new list of land valuation. 

The average prices nationwide are now going up by 21.34 percent. 

Bangkok's Silom District is the most expensive area soaring to 850,000 baht per square Wah.

Treasury Department Director-General Narit Chaiyasut said the average land price nationwide rose by 21.34 percent. 
*

Land prices in the provinces went up by 21 percent, while those in Bangkok increased by 17.13 percent.

Bangkok's Silom area from Sala Daeng Intersection to Narathiwat  Rajanakarin Intersection is the most expensive area assessed at 850,000  baht per square Wah, followed by Rajdamri area, from Ratchprasong  Intersection to Saen Sab Canal, and Rama I area, from Pathumwan  Intersection to Ploen Chit Road.

Land prices rise the most in Wattana, Klongtoey, Phra Khanong and Bang Na areas by an average 39.20 percent. 

Chatuchak, Ladprao and Pravet saw the most modest change in land prices  because valuation for the areas has been revised recently.

In the provinces, the average land prices went up by 14 percent in the  North, 25 percent in the Northeast, 12.9 percent in the Central and 31  percent in the South.

A highest jump is in Narathiwat Province, with an average price shooting  up by 141 percent due to its favorable economic environment.

 Buri Rum and Trat provinces are among the runner-ups with 81 and 74 percent increases.

Meanwhile, Songkhla's Hat Yai District has the highest average land  price of 400,000 baht per square Wah, compared to other provinces. 

Land in Udon Thani's Baan Rai has the lowest price tag of just ten baht  per square Wah, due to the fact that the area is used for farming and is  inaccessible to vehicles.

Narit said his agency is surveying flood-hit areas and will present a report to provincial offices to re-evaluate land prices. 

He expects the new valuation for such areas will be announced within January.

He added international standards are used as reference for the latest update of land valuation. 

The actual market prices and factors such as geographical conditions,  location, available infrastructure and transport systems and the quality  of the environment, as well as urban development regulations were taken  into the consideration. 

This is to ensure the most accurate and reliable valuation.

The Treasury Department head also revealed that his agency is planning  to conduct valuation of additional 23 million land plots in the next  eight years.

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## Butterfly

gotta love the land bubble here, that and Gold, it's going to be painful when they burst

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## The Ghost Of The Moog

The point of this subjective exercise is lost on me. It appears to be a waste of taxpayers money. 

A Land Registry that accurately recorded transacted prices is all that would be needed to establish a valuation metric, rather than some arbitrary estimate.

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## Butterfly

^ I think that's what they do actually, they take the average transaction price to value the land

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## Tom Sawyer

> The point of this subjective exercise is lost on me. It appears to be a waste of taxpayers money. 
> 
> A Land Registry that accurately recorded transacted prices is all that would be needed to establish a valuation metric, rather than some arbitrary estimate.


They plan to introduce property taxes - been on the agenda (or at least floated) for some time, hence the requirement to bring valuations more in line with real market values.

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## chingching

go and have a look at the units in these condos and see how many are occoupied ,not many ,they are mostly empty hulks that will never be occupied .
same as in the bubble towers in china ,nobody will ever live in them

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