#  >  > Travellers Tales in Thailand and Asia >  >  > Malaysia Forum >  >  Foreign retirees no longer welcome in Malaysia

## Lostandfound

*: New MM2H Programme Requirements Will Disqualify Nearly All Applicants AND Existing Visa Holders*
ByExpatGo Staff
Posted on August 12, 2021




IMAGE CREDIT: SHUTTERSTOCK VIA IQI






*The just-announced revised MM2H programme comes with truly onerous new requirements called hostile by one MM2Her, and consultants say it will likely doom the popular visa scheme.*The new Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme has been announced, and it will certainly not be welcomed by many people at all. The new requirements, which take effect in October 2021, add considerable strength to the argument that many expats have expressed to us, concluding that the current government simply does not want them here. 
Since early last year, the MM2H programme has taken a real battering and resulted in MM2H visa holders giving up the visa or becoming very upset with the treatment they received. On a number of occasions, the MM2H visa holders were the last residents of Malaysia allowed to return here and some are still locked out. Although we were very disappointed by their treatment during the pandemic, we did not believe the government wanted them out altogether. Some expats and MM2Hers did not share our view, nor our willingness to give the benefit of the doubt. Now it seems they were right and we were wrong.
Apart from the problems MM2H visa holders had returning to their homes in Malaysia, we noted that it was also made easier for them to _cancel_ their visa. In the past, they had to come to Malaysia to cancel it, but that requirement was dropped and they could cancel without coming here  and quite a few did just that. By contrast, anyone whose visa expired while they were locked out of the country were told they could only apply for renewal _after_ the borders were open and could not return to their homes until then. Unsurprisingly, many people who had taken the visa because of the promises of being welcome in Malaysia reached the conclusion that they were no longer wanted here.
*MM2H: A BRIEF BACKGROUND*The MM2H programme has contributed so much to the countrys economy and international image. The value and success of the programme has been recognised by economists, major property developers, and those charged with marketing the country. Ever since the programme was launched, we have actively supported it both as an agent, and through our media channels, spreading the word about this excellent government initiative.
The programme is primarily marketed as a retirement programme, and the most common selling point was the high ranking Malaysia received in the annual round-up of best places to retire by _International Living_ magazine. In fact, apart from retirees, some people who had not retired chose to apply for the visa, too, including people coming here to have their children educated, people whose worked outside Malaysia and chose it as a base, people who lived in troubled countries and wanted a place to relocate if the situation in their home country worsened, and even some who came from countries not eligible for the 90-day visa on arrival and wanted to avoid the hassles of applying for a visa each time.
Once the new requirements take effect, it looks like many of them will no longer be eligible. During the last year, more people have asked us to cancel their visa than at any time since the programme was launched. We have also received many emails from prospective applicants saying they would not be applying.
*THE NEW REQUIREMENTS: Our Analysis*Let us share our reasons for thinking the new programme will be a real blow to both Malaysia and potential applicants. Before starting, we should state that we are relying on news reports about the new programme resulting from the press conference held by Home Ministry Secretary-General Wan Ahmad Dahlan Abdul Aziz on August 11, and our own MM2H agency has not received any official document regarding the new rules. We will issue new updates as we learn more.
_Home Ministry Secretary-General Wan Ahmad Dahlan Abdul Aziz lays out the new requirements_ | Image Credit: Bernama
Here is a summary of the new rules and our initial reaction to them.
*MINIMUM MONTHLY OFFSHORE INCOME UP FROM RM10,000 TO RM40,000*This will be a _major_ factor in reducing the number of new applicants. Of the many applicants we have processed in the last 19 years since the programme started, we doubt even 5% had that level of offshore monthly income. The reason is simple: most retirees take a major drop in income, and with the move away from lifetime employment, fewer people are receiving large pensions  if they get a pension at all.
For example, in the United States, which generally pays higher salaries, the median household retirement income is estimated by the US Census Bureau to be about US$47,400 a year (2019). The new requirement for the MM2H visa is more than double that, at roughly US$114,000 a year based on current exchange rates, clearly putting the programme far out of reach for most American (and other) retirees. That is apparently the intention, but other changes to the rules may well persuade more affluent retirees to go elsewhere.


The previous programme already had some of the highest income requirements among competitive programmes around the world. We are not at all confident the very rich will want to relocate to Malaysia, especially when you do not need that much money to enjoy a great life here.
One of the key attractions of Malaysia is it offers an attractive lifestyle at a lower price than many other countries. If you actually earn RM40,000 a month after deductions, then you likely would not feel compelled to come to Malaysia, simply because there are many other more developed countries which offer a better lifestyle and would certainly welcome you. 
Additionally, as MM2H consultants and agents have also noted, such wild swings in the programmes key requirements communicate a lack of stability and subsequently erode confidence in both the programme and in Malaysia. Moving to a new country and establishing a home there is a major step, they correctly note. Why would people at this level of wealth choose to come here, buy property here, and build a life here when it can all be suddenly yanked out from under them?
What is really surprising to us about the new programme is that in our discussions with the outside consultants who reviewed the programme, they indicated that they understood the issues. They seemed to have done a comprehensive study and, although they did not share their recommendations with us, they made it clear they were not suggesting drastic changes. Either their assertions were disingenuous or someone has ignored their recommendations completely, because the announced changes are clearly quite dramatic indeed and, in our opinion, will unquestionably result in a major drop in new MM2H applicants.
*FIXED DEPOSIT INCREASED FROM RM150,000 / RM300,000 TO RM1,000,000*One of the frequent complaints about the previous programme was having money locked up in a local bank for the duration of your stay. The fixed deposit (FD) amount was RM150,000 for over-50s and RM300,000 for younger applicants. People who purchased a house were permitted to withdraw part of their deposit, but still asked why they should not be allowed to touch their money and be required to leave it on low-yield time deposits.
Now that complaint is sure to increase. The requirement to place RM1,000,000 into an FD can only reduce the number of applicants, as people either cannot afford to put that much money into a declining asset or are not willing to commit so much money. The simple fact is that the ringgit is a weak currency and has been steadily declining in value for the last 25 years, meaning that the value of your FD will quite likely go down. For example, if you joined the MM2H programme in 2010 and placed RM150,000 into an FD, it would have cost you US$46,000 at those exchange rates (about 1:3.22). Today, that account would be worth roughly US$36,000, a loss of almost 25% of your investment.  
Even though the new rules will apparently allow you to withdraw half the money to buy a house, it still means a sizeable amount (RM500,000) left on a fixed deposit paying low interest and declining in value. Its unclear why MM2Hers would be keen to spend heavily on property, given that the visas duration has been significantly shortened, too  more on that later.
It should also be noted that raising the FD requirement can be enacted solely with the goal of reducing the number of applicants, because while its always been true that some people would not join the programme if the deposit requirement was considered excessive, nobody could argue that an even _higher_ minimum deposit would make the programme more attractive.
*MUST SHOW ADDITIONAL RM1,500,000 OF LIQUID ASSETS*We have always felt it there was little point in having to show higher liquid assets beyond the required FD, but our efforts to have the rules changed failed. We felt that if the key requirement was that you had the income to live here, and you could afford to place the FD, why demand proof of additional cash funds? Assets like property were, of course, not considered liquid assets.
We have had many applicants who, upon retirement, had fully paid for their house which was worth the equivalent of several million ringgit. They also had a good income, but not a lot of cash savings. Unsurprisingly, they were not willing to sell their home in order to show the required liquid assets during the visa approval process, only to run the risk of being rejected and subsequently left homeless, so they did not apply for the programme at all.


The decision to increase this amount is unquestionably going to cause many more people not to apply. The new programme will also require an additional deposit of RM50,000 per dependent, which will not help matters.
*MINIMUM AGE INCREASED TO 35*The new programme will have two groups of applicants: those aged 35 to 49 and those 50 and over. It is not clear how (or if) the requirements for each group will differ.
We do not see this change as a major problem and always thought that being eligible for the visa at 21 years of age was rather young and left the visa programme open to abuse. However, we have been advised that some older applicants, especially from China, like to bring along their adult children who are not eligible for a dependent visa, so the children apply separately. This will no longer be an option for those under 35.
*MUST SPEND AT LEAST 90 DAYS A YEAR IN MALAYSIA*There have always been calls to make the programme require a minimum stay in Malaysia so that it would encourage people to relocate here and the benefit to the country would increase. For various reasons, this requirement was not implemented. Some people felt it would drive away some eligible applicants. Apart from a few people who worked outside the country, it would mean the programme would only attract genuine retirees who could spend long periods here and a few people who could work overseas but be based here.
This new requirement will certainly turn away some of the current applicants. In theory, it makes sense, but it would make more sense if the programme had different rules for different categories of applicants.
If you truly want the programme to be about owning a second home in Malaysia, which apparently many people mistakenly thought was the intention of the previous programme, then this new requirement will certainly turn them off. It is quite common for people in developed counties to own a second home in another country where they can spend vacations. However, it is a rare person who can spend 90 days at their vacation home. The reason is simple: Virtually nobody gets _that_ much vacation time.
Some people applied for the old programme while they were still working in order to meet the income criteria. That will no longer be possible under the new programme if you have to spend 90 days a year here.
The Sarawak programme only requires a minimum stay of 15 days in the state and will certainly seem a lot more attractive to prospective applicants, especially since their other terms are a lot less onerous and you can still live in West Malaysia with that visa (unless that rule is changed).
*MAXIMUM NUMBER OF MM2H PARTICIPANTS*One of the more surprising statements made by the Home Ministry Secretary-General when announcing the new programme was that in response to concerns about the number of foreigners living here, they would limit the maximum number of participants to 1% of the total population.
This seems to reflect the attitude of a small group who we believe do not understand the MM2H programme. We have been asked on a number of occasions to explain to Malaysians the very real benefits of the programme for the country and the people of Malaysia. Once we did that, very few expressed a desire to stop the programme.
According to the Home Ministry, just over 57,000 people in total have been approved for the programme (since its inception in 2002), even when dependents are included. This is nowhere close to 1% of the population, which would limit the programme to some 330,000 visa holders based on the current population. It should also be noted that quite a few applicants choose not to relocate to Malaysia, and we estimate a lot less than half actually live here. In addition, some of the applicants who did move here have since died or cancelled their visas and relocated elsewhere.
In terms of disruption to Malaysian society, it should be noted that the population of Malaysia has increased by around nine million people since the programme was launched, and so the number of approved applicants hardly registers at all, and the number of MM2Hers actually living here, even less so.
_Through 2018, the number of approved applicants has been minuscule compared to Malaysias population_ | Chart courtesy of MM2H.com
*HIGHER GOVERNMENT-IMPOSED CHARGES*The government has also decided to raise the fees by a significant amount. In the past, the agents were considered the people who would market the programme and collect higher fees to cover their costs. Now that the government will substantially increase their own fees, this will certainly dissuade some people from applying.
Under the old programme the renewable visa was for 10 years, which made the programme very attractive, but the new visa will be for only five years. Moreover, the actual visa issued was only valid until your passport expired (which would almost always happen during the visas 10-year validity), but it was a fairly easy exercise to transfer it to a new passport. The new rule may not make this process materially more difficult, but it will make it far more costly.
The charge for the visa is going to be increased over five-fold, from RM90 to RM500 a year, which will certainly not be welcome, particularly when Immigration will also charge a processing fee of RM5,000 for the main applicants and RM2,500 for each dependent.
This means that many applicants will pay more in Immigration charges and visa fees than was previously paid to agents. When you add the agents fee, then the whole application process will become extremely expensive.
Of course, one option is to do away with agents. However this will make the work of Immigration staff that much harder, turn off the more affluent who would like additional assistance for the heavily increased fees, and of course also means that all the marketing efforts of the many agents will be lost, as well.
*EXISTING VISA HOLDERS MUST MEET NEW REQUIREMENTS*In a major shock, it was also announced that even _existing_ MM2H visa holders will have to meet the new criteria.
One of the impressive things about the old programme was that once you joined it, the government did not make any significant changes to the rules or requirements. It was a valuable selling point to be able to assure people that the rules would not suddenly be changed.
That is now clearly no longer the case. The government plans to insist that all existing MM2H visa holders meet the new criteria, and we know for a fact that the overwhelming majority will not be able to meet them. They will therefore be forced to leave the country with the attendant negative impact on the economy.
They will apparently allow current MM2H visa holders one year to meet the new requirements, but the simple fact is that if they are retired and do not meet the criteria today, they will not meet it in one years time. It is not clear if they have one year from the launch date of the new programme (October 2021) or one year from when their current visa expires.
*SUMMARY*As you may have guessed, our view is that the new MM2H programme will have a detrimental impact on the number of applicants and consequently will not be of much benefit to the Malaysian economy.
Those who meet the new criteria may well apply, but making it much harder to apply will not increase applications, nor will bringing in the ultra-wealthy increase the benefit to Malaysia to a point that will offset the loss of revenue from the many applicants who cannot qualify.
It does seem those visa holders who concluded the country no longer wanted them to be here were correct. That is obviously bad news for the many people who were interested in joining the programme, and in our opinion, its even worse news for Malaysia and Malaysians.
The people who will doubtlessly be happy with the new MM2H programme requirements are the other countries who offer competitive programmes, most of which were already easier to join than the previous MM2H programme. More and more countries are realising the positive impact of these visa programmes. We anticipate increased interest in Thailand and Vietnam as places to live, two regional neighbours which are also well-regarded by the _International Living_ best retirement destinations list. If Malaysia implements these new rules, we believe it will certainly make the programme exclusive to a very small number of people, with a greatly reduced benefit to the country.
As we stated earlier, this article is based on the rules as we have seen them reported in the national press. We have not seen the official documents, and there is always the chance further revisions will be made before the new programme takes effect. We will keep readers advised as we learn more





https://www.expatgo.com/my/2021/08/1...-visa-holders/

----------


## misskit

Changing the program for new applicants is fine, but it is despicable for them to pull the rug out from under people who already live there. Malaysia  should at least grandfather them under the old terms.

----------


## VocalNeal

Gotta keep them Chinese out?

----------


## tomcat

> The just-announced revised MM2H programme comes with truly onerous new requirements called ‘hostile’ by one MM2Her, and consultants say it will likely doom the popular visa scheme.
> 
> The new Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme has been announced, and it will certainly not be welcomed by many people at all. The new requirements, which take effect in October 2021, add considerable strength to the argument that many expats have expressed to us, concluding that the current government simply does not want them here.
> Since early last year, the MM2H programme has taken a real battering and resulted in MM2H visa holders giving up the visa or becoming very upset with the treatment they received. On a number of occasions, the MM2H visa holders were the last residents of Malaysia allowed to return here and some are still locked out. Although we were very disappointed by their treatment during the pandemic, we did not believe the government wanted them out altogether. Some expats and MM2Hers did not share our view, nor our willingness to give the benefit of the doubt. Now it seems they were right and we were wrong.
> Apart from the problems MM2H visa holders had returning to their homes in Malaysia, we noted that it was also made easier for them to cancel their visa. In the past, they had to come to Malaysia to cancel it, but that requirement was dropped and they could cancel without coming here – and quite a few did just that. By contrast, anyone whose visa expired while they were locked out of the country were told they could only apply for renewal after the borders were open and could not return to their homes until then. Unsurprisingly, many people who had taken the visa because of the promises of being welcome in Malaysia reached the conclusion that they were no longer wanted here.
> MM2H: A BRIEF BACKGROUND
> 
> The MM2H programme has contributed so much to the country’s economy and international image. The value and success of the programme has been recognised by economists, major property developers, and those charged with marketing the country. Ever since the programme was launched, we have actively supported it both as an agent, and through our media channels, spreading the word about this excellent government initiative.
> The programme is primarily marketed as a retirement programme, and the most common selling point was the high ranking Malaysia received in the annual round-up of ‘best places to retire’ by International Living magazine. In fact, apart from retirees, some people who had not retired chose to apply for the visa, too, including people coming here to have their children educated, people whose worked outside Malaysia and chose it as a base, people who lived in troubled countries and wanted a place to relocate if the situation in their home country worsened, and even some who came from countries not eligible for the 90-day visa on arrival and wanted to avoid the hassles of applying for a visa each time.
> ...


.......

----------


## Saint Willy

> Changing the program for new applicants is fine, but it is despicable for them to pull the rug out from under people who already live there. Malaysia  should at least grandfather them under the old terms.



Exactly. 

A terrible decision/signal when they supposedly want to increase foreign investment.

----------


## sabang

Malaysia is the new Thailand.

----------


## Norton

> Malaysia is the new Thailand.


Compared to financial requirements, Thailand is a piece of cake.

----------


## Hugh Cow

So much for me living in Georgetown with frequent visits to Thailand.  Luckily I still have Plans B,C and D.

----------


## cyrille

> Malaysia is the new Thailand.


This is obviously nothing like anything ever in Thailand.

Perhaps the black on blue was a struggle.

----------


## sabang

Yeh, I was seriously thinking of MM2H for a while too- when I got totally pissed off with Thai immigration and it's ever changing requirements. Glad I didn't.

----------


## TizMe

> So much for me living in Georgetown with frequent visits to Thailand.  Luckily I still have Plans B,C and D.


If you qualify for the 90 day visa free visit then you could still stay in Georgetown and just visa run 4 times a year.

----------


## happynz

> If you qualify for the 90 day visa free visit then you could still stay in Georgetown and just visa run 4 times a year.


There's that. I suppose it would work if Malaysia immi officers are not too fussed by the numerous Malaysian entry stamps in a passport.

----------


## HuangLao

> Compared to financial requirements, Thailand is a piece of cake.


Don't speak too loudly. 
Wouldn't surprise anyone if Thai authorities took notice and hybridized their own fashion from neighboring policies.

----------


## Fondles

HaHa, sucks to be them !!

----------


## panama hat

> There's that. I suppose it would work if Malaysia immi officers are not too fussed by the numerous Malaysian entry stamps in a passport.


Max three 'turnarounds' before they start to ask questions, according to an acquaintance in KL

----------


## Saint Willy

> Max three 'turnarounds' before they start to ask questions, according to an acquaintance in KL


I heard same info.

----------


## panama hat

When I was working with Tourism Malaysia we were working on policies to help Dept. o Immi make Malaysia a more attractive place to retire - an update to the MM2H.  Lots of good plans and ideas, locations and policies.  Some were introduced, others were not.

Malaysia always is compared to Thailand but the sought after retiree is very different from Thailand . . . as are tourists in general.

They've dropped the ball here, but at end of the day immigration/retirement is not a right, it's a privilege . . . says the man with a spouse visa.

----------


## sabang

> says the man with a spouse visa.


You mean, like I had in Thailand?  ::chitown::

----------


## nidhogg

This is a massive turnabout.  

Any insights on the politics behind it?

----------


## Saint Willy

> This is a massive turnabout.  
> 
> Any insights on the politics behind it?


Desperation in a failing government? Jealous when they see who Singapore can attract and a lack of self awareness that Malaysia cannot replicate the same...

----------


## Shutree

> They've dropped the ball here, but at end of the day immigration/retirement is not a right, it's a privilege .


That is true. But it is a privilege that has been acquired at a cost by the 57,000 or so MM2H visa holders. People I know have made big commitments in Penang. They own flats and cars, they have made their lives there. They are seriously upset about the rules being changed so dramatically in ways that seem purposely designed to force them out.

The visa is notionallly 10 years but for most people it is less, because the visa expires with the passport. That is my situation.

That means there will be more than 5,000 MM2h visa renewals every year, about 400 per month, more than ten every day, so quite a few people cannot just sit back and wait for the Malaysian government to rethink this, they have to make plans now.

My MM2H expires in two months. It cannot be renewed outside the country and I cannot get a second jab in Thailand and then permission to enter Malaysia, if granted, before the due date. I'll see what happens.

----------


## panama hat

> You mean, like I had in Thailand?


No idea, but comparing Thailand and Malaysia doesn't really work. One is a country with one foot in the developed world, the other says sawadee xxxx





> This is a massive turnabout.
> 
> Any insights on the politics behind it?





> Desperation in a failing government? Jealous when they see who Singapore can attract and a lack of self awareness that Malaysia cannot replicate the same...


Sure, a bit of all the above, but Singapore doesn't have a program for people, to retire there - they don't need the money, they need employment and investment in the little red dot. 

I believe it has to do with trying to keep the ethnic and religious 'balance' the way it is and grow it and having hundreds of thousands of wealthy foreigners living it large, as it were, looks bad.

Still, there is no anti-caucasian sentiment and it certainly is a more stable and secure place to live compared to Thailand






> My MM2H expires in two months. It cannot be renewed outside the country and I cannot get a second jab in Thailand and then permission to enter Malaysia, if granted, before the due date. I'll see what happens.


age you contacted the embassy in Bkk or someone you know in MY?

----------


## Shutree

> you contacted the embassy in Bkk or someone you know in MY?


Relying first on the agent in Penang. They cannot do much until I get there, so the Malaysian embassy is my next stop. As I understand it, two jabs will be mandatory. All a bit vague at the moment. Some people have applied repeatedly for permission to enter Malaysia, including MM2H holders and dependents, only to be turned down repeatedly, then allowed without any change in circumstances.

----------


## Saint Willy

> Some people have applied repeatedly for permission to enter Malaysia, including MM2H holders and dependents


They really have screwed the MM2H folk, with the refusal to allow them to return to Malaysia.

----------


## havnfun

I was in Malaya in 1967-1968,(Panang) Dad was in the RAAF mom was a teacher in primary school, was mostly Buddhist back then Then the communists took over,now the Mussies have the run of place, last place I would ever want to retire in.

----------


## panama hat

Interesting . . . when exactly did the Communists take over in Penang?  And how do the "Mussies" have 'the run of the place' now?

Please don't turn into a Backspit-historian

----------


## havnfun

The commies where in a gorilla campaign to oust GB from the late forties early fifties,
When I was there in the late sixties, was Buddah shrines everywhere. I was 3-4 years old and can still remember, Now most in government are Muslim, You live there now, you should know about the history with GB and Thailand.
Religious Beliefs In Malaysia - WorldAtlas

Malayan Emergency - Wikipedia

----------


## havnfun

The one thing about Malaya that I will never forget is the monny drains, Thats what they were called back then, pronounced as I spelled it, was an open sewerage/stormwater drain that ran down the side of the street, Never forget my mom backed the car out one morning and got the back wheel stuck, the neighbors helped lift and push her out.
All my memories are fond ones, I remember being fascinated by crabs that climb coconut trees and those weird prehistoric things swam up to the wall at the tennis courts,

----------


## sabang

> Malaya in 1967-1968,(Panang)


Butterworth, presumably. I was there in 1982, and shacked up with two young, female aussie schoolteachers I met at a restaurant in Batu Ferringhi. Good days- you could say Malaysia was my second home for a while.  :bananaman:

----------


## panama hat

Sure, I know the history but communists were never in charge of Penang, nor are the Malays now and Buddhist temples still are everywhere as it is a Chinese-majority state, led by a Chinese Chief Minister and the majority-Chinese DAP.

The gutters still exist because of the frequent storms - storm drains . . . what is at times disgusting are the normal longkang - gutters that are filled with rotting vegetation. 

There are three non-Muslim-majority states; Penang, Sabah, Sarawak

----------


## sabang

> gutters that are filled with rotting vegetation.


 Raw sewage too (or used to be). The 'Grand Canal' of Batu Ferringhi was utterly putrid- and came out on the beach right next to the upmarket ShangriLa & Golden Sands hotel. The well heeled tourists didn't seem to mind- maybe they just didn't know about it, from their luxury enclave- but I wouldna dip my toe in the sea there (further down the beach, ok). Judging by the number of them, water monitors do not mind filthy water!

^ Those commies never got Penang, but they did get Gov. Gurney!

----------


## havnfun

> Butterworth, presumably


Sabang got it on the spot. That's the RAAF base dad was stationed at, Mirage engine fitter

----------


## havnfun

> Sure, I know the history but communists were never in charge of Penang, nor are the Malays now and Buddhist temples still are everywhere as it is a Chinese-majority state, led by a Chinese Chief Minister and the majority-Chinese DAP.
> 
> The gutters still exist because of the frequent storms - storm drains . . . what is at times disgusting are the normal longkang - gutters that are filled with rotting vegetation. 
> 
> There are three non-Muslim-majority states; Penang, Sabah, Sarawak


I'm talking from memory of a 4 year old kid, I may have mixxed up Panang and Butterworth, but I can distinctly remember Buddhism being the dominant religion back then. The commies took over,is an exaggeration,(but that's me :Smile: ) They came to an agreement is more precise.

----------


## havnfun

> The well heeled tourists didn't seem to mind- maybe they just didn't know about it,


Kinda reminds me of Bondi beach in the 1980's :Smile: 

The nightly news helicopters would fly over and film the huge brown slick of water floating past the beach. :Smile:  those poor tourists had no idea.

Me and me mates never went in the water, we went there to pick up chicks.
Will never forget this French chick, was really hot and spoke so sexy. :Smile:

----------


## sabang

Especially when the sewage workers were on strike! I lived in Bondi back then- south Bondi, fortunately. Tamarama was my beach.  :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> I can distinctly remember Buddhism being the dominant religion back then


It still is in Penang . . .





> Kinda reminds me of Bondi beach in the 1980's


You're a Sydney-kid as well?

----------


## havnfun

Especially when the sewage workers were on strike! I lived in Bondi back then- south Bondi, fortunately. 


LOL :smiley laughing:

----------


## havnfun

> You're a Sydney-kid as well?


No mate I'm a westie, can't ya tell :Smile:

----------


## panama hat

> No mate I'm a westie, can't ya tell


Didn't want to say . . . plus, anything past Edgecliff is 'west'.  :Smile:

----------


## havnfun

How are you going to go now with this new requirement? Seems a bit harsh to retro it, How many expats have already put a lot of financial planning into retiring there, let alone the ones that bought property. Hopefully they will re-think (like Thai often does) and at least grandfather those already invested.

----------


## sabang

> and at least grandfather those already invested.


They most certainly should- but will they?

----------


## panama hat

> How are you going to go now with this new requirement?


For me it's not an issue as I have a spouse visa - my wife is Malaysian, so property etc... is fine.  (For now, as she isn't Malay)  Though there are restrictions on peninsular Malaysians I have enough contacts in Sabah to potentially make Kota Kinabalu our retirement place - best place in the tropical world as far as I'm concerned and our plan for a long time.




> How many expats have already put a lot of financial planning into retiring there, let alone the ones that bought property.


Quite a few and renewal of visas is being held up even for people inside the country, but that has more likely to do with travel restrictions and covid. . . hopefully.
We have friends who are 'only' partners, not married . . . for over 20 years.  They have a daughter, she is Malaysian and he's a Brit who used to work as an airline mechanic at MAS.  He was laid off when they started cutting down on foreign engineers (rightly so, I believe) and they had to move back to the UK, which they all hated with a passion.  They want to return but can't get him a long-term visa at the moment.




> Hopefully they will re-think (like Thai often does) and at least grandfather those already invested.





> They most certainly should- but will they?


Having worked with the department in question I can only conclude that it's either politically motivated (though the 'why' eludes me) or political incompetence . . . in other words an unforeseen consequence of something else.

----------


## Shutree

> renewal of visas is being held up even for people inside the country


A couple of my friends in Penang got their MM2H visas renewed fairly recently, no problem at all. No one saw this coming.




> politically motivated


The general feeling amongst the expats I know seems to be that the ougoing PM wanted to display his Malay-first credentials by kicking the expats where it hurts. One of the potential replacements is known as being more welcoming to international residents, although the political mess there is so convoluted that I am not hopeful this issue will get anyone's attention.

----------


## Saint Willy

> potential replacements is known as being more welcoming to international residents


Ismail Subri or Anwar? I’m not sure either are expat friendly.

----------


## panama hat

It's Sabri . . . just appointed by the Agong/King . . . and UMNO is back in power without the people voting for them.  :Sad:

----------


## Norton

> It's Sabri . . . just appointed by the Agong/King . . . and UMNO is back in power without the people voting for them.


Reckon the good Doctor had something to do with this?
Doesn't matter much. This too shall pass shortly.

----------


## havnfun

I'm hoping that they do the same in Thailand soon, will get rid of all the rifraf :Smile: 

I said to my wife a few years ago about what those blokes in Thailand had to do to prove their money, "They should just drive their wife and kids to the immigration office and say, "you take care of them now, I have to go home" she said they won't listen. But I bet if a thousand expats with wives and kids did it all on the same day, They would listen.

----------


## Buckaroo Banzai

> When I was working with Tourism Malaysia we were working on policies to help Dept. o Immi make Malaysia a more attractive place to retire - an update to the MM2H.  Lots of good plans and ideas, locations and policies.  Some were introduced, others were not.
> 
> Malaysia always is compared to Thailand but the sought after retiree is very different from Thailand . . . as are tourists in general.
> 
> They've dropped the ball here, but at end of the day immigration/retirement is not a right, it's a privilege . . . says the man with a spouse visa.


It is also a long term arrangement,Thus the term "retirement", it is an implied contract to which one party is not performing. 
But such seems to be the case with this "Mickey Mouse" countries which is why I would never retire in any of them unless I can secure permanent residency status. 
What has happened in Malaysia can happen in Thailand at any time. 
We are only given a one year extension, which means we are temporary residents. 
I was reading about the new scheme to  attract wealthy retirees to Thailand based on investment, but it only would provide a five year visa, and it said the scheme will be reviewed in five years.
Really?? I will uproot myself  , set up a life in Thailand , and make a substantial investment,  based on a five year promise?
I built the house here in Thailand only so my wonderful wife would have a place hereafter I am gone. but I trust Thailand  also , as far as I can spit. 
PS: If one wants to retire outside their own country, plenty of countries out there that with a modest investment one can secure permanent residency and a road to citizenship within a few years.

----------


## david44

> A lot of people have bet their lives on their retirement in their country of choice, Old age and all the associated challenges that go with that require stability, and not this flip flop Mickey Mouse county policies.


Very important point, the willingness , ability to move should be respected in old age.These are not billionaires , regular folks who have domne a deal I looked at MM2H but a Thai fiend rightly said they are no more trustworthy than us or the British when it comes to treaties and doing teh honourabel thng.


The Malays have behaved appallingly.Few new MM2H can be expected and those forced to leave at great expense, loss upset will spread the word.

Perhaps PH gas some insight , while whitey may be suspect and  I have spent years in Malaysia, mainly albeit Chinese dominated Penang   suggest the most suspect are the nouveau riche Manland Chinese, who the Racist bigots of the islamic ethnic UMNO Bumis are afeared of hordes more cashed up or agent fiddle residency Chinese changing their grip and losing ther nation as happened here.

 It is almost taboo to point at the Tcheow Chao moet lenders and who ther courtesans married. The Chinese saw what happened n Cholon and Indonesia where they were looted and discriminated against by the mad mullahs.

----------


## david44

> Just trying to inspire some rigorous discussion cyssil
> 
> Bottom line is that the Embassies of all affected countries should be arguing against the changes or at least tell Malaysia, "We will impose the same conditions on any of your citizens".


Very very few Malaysians have the loot to retire even in malaysia, the few that are seriosly rich always find a away. If it wasnt for my 2 dozen Songkhla sharia wives down on my Somtam planations or in the Massaman factoy I'd be reduced to shirking for a living. I know I know one wife is enough for any man but they came by the crate full from Rohinghystan with no sale or return claws, ther egood lasses eager to meet clean living Westerners for long game.

----------


## havnfun

> Very very few Malaysians have the loot to retire even in malaysia, the few that are seriosly rich always find a away. If it wasnt for my 2 dozen Songkhla sharia wives down on my Somtam planations or in the Massaman factoy I'd be reduced to shirking for a living. I know I know one wife is enough for any man but they came by the crate full from Rohinghystan with no sale or return claws, ther egood lasses eager to meet clean living Westerners for long game.



So you get it, If the Aus, US, ENG, and EU, simply said, Ok Malaysia we will impose the the criteria per standard of living as you do for entries into our country, Job done end of game. :Smile:

----------


## Shutree

The Home Minister recently stated that the new MM2H rules would only apply to new applicants:

Hamzah defends new MM2H rules amid royal objections
Malaysiakini Team
Published:  Sep 24, 2021 6:47 PM


Home Minister Hamzah Zainudin has defended the newer, more stringent rules for the Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H) programme.

He said the new rules,_ which will only apply to new applicants_, were fair and good for the country and the people's future.

Hamzah defends new MM2H rules amid royal objections


Whatever he says, any trust has been lost.

----------


## nidhogg

> So you get it, If the Aus, US, ENG, and EU, simply said, Ok Malaysia we will impose the the criteria per standard of living as you do for entries into our country, Job done end of game.


If anyone REALLY wants to make problems, they should insist on equality over land ownership.  It irks me that a Thai can own land in UK, but a Brit cannot own land in Thailand.

----------

