#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > Business, Finance & Economics in Thailand >  >  Bitcoin or Gold?

## Neo

Trade war, sanctions, unregulated derivatives, national and consumer debt... it's all building up toward the inevitable slide again. 

Living in a country where money in the bank is not protected by a compensation scheme, gold or cryptocurrency would seem the safest bet for savings. 

Gold has the drawback of still having to be physically moved across borders but is tangibly safe. 
Bitcoin the opposite. 

I welcome your experience and insight.

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## Dillinger

Go read the R.I.P Bitcoin thread, start where Luigi joins last November, becomes the most prolific poster and gets a taste for Ugandan hookers,  Gold Label and Lamborghini showrooms,.

Then read his latest  Chiang Mai thread  where he  is driven to Chiang Mai by his mom to sell his condo :Smile:

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## Neo

His poor mum, what a burden that boy has been  :smiley laughing:

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## Maanaam

Robert Kiyosaki, in a recent statement, says buy gold.
He's probably a better bet than anyone on here.
To even consider bitcoin shows that you're probably not to be trusted with money.






> Then read his latest Chiang Mai thread where he is driven to Chiang Mai by his mom to sell his condo


 Sad if it wasn't so laughable or happening to a nicer chap.  :Smile:

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## Dillinger

Its a brave man who buys into that crypto, although if you buy now you will be buying at a price around 80% cheaper than you would have in January

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## cyrille

> To even consider bitcoin shows that you're probably not to be trusted with money.


It definitely reeks of a trust fund-based 'success' story.

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## Luigi

> Go read the R.I.P Bitcoin thread, start where Luigi joins last November, becomes the most prolific poster and gets a taste for Ugandan hookers,  Gold Label and Lamborghini showrooms,.
> 
> Then read his latest  Chiang Mai thread  where he  is driven to Chiang Mai by his mom to sell his condo


 :rofl: 


Just finished renovating two to rent or sell. Back up there in 5 weeks time to finish off the 3rd. 

Great returns Neo, how much ya got to invest?  :Smile:

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## Luigi

Diversify a bit. Split between the two. Some easy short-term money to be made in crypto with a bit of study.... But sounds like you're going longer term with more security?


Condo or two it is me friend.  :Smile:

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## cyrille

> Some easy short-term money to be made in crypto with a bit of study


Was it your studying that told you to buy at the peak?

 :smiley laughing:

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## Luigi

Bought at the peak?  :Dunno: 


Looks like a good ol' Lulutardin' thread is on the way.  :Smile: 

 :Wank:

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## Dillinger

This is the man 



who put a million on black and it came out red.


This is the man that moved into Bitcoin just as the clever money moved out.

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## Luigi

^




> Looks like a good ol' Lulutardin' thread is on the way.


 :Smile: 


 :party43: 



 :Wank:

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## Dillinger

:smiley laughing:

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## Neo

> sounds like you're going longer term with more security?


Security yes, but short term as in if there's a run on the bank and I need to leave my car at the airport. I want my modest savings to be movable and easily convertible. 

If I leave it in the bank it's not protected by any compensation scheme if the bank was to collapse, unlikely perhaps but not beyond the realms of possibility given the very uncertain economic future approaching.

Gold would be the best bet,  buying €5-10k at a time, but I have no experience in buying/selling/moving it. 

For any major transaction here in UAE your ID is required.. kinda wonder how that will go down on the final exit from the country. 

I could seek and pay for independent advice here, but wheres the shits and giggles in that eh.?  :Smile:

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## Dillinger

Well, you'll be buying low, Neo.....maybe :Smile: 
SHOTGUN on the Lambo passenger seat  :Smile:

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## Luigi

:rofl: 



You do know that current price and purchase price are different, right.  :Smile: 

Most sold when back to +10%






(ish)  :Smile:

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## Neo

You guys are useless  :rofl:

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## Luigi

You're looking for transfers, so forget about BTC, the blockchain fees are too high.

ETH is good in that aspect, as it's pretty much bog standard 0.005 fee.

Easy short-term money to be made, but you need to keep your eye on it, and constantly change your pull/reassessment points. 

ETH is down around 20% in the last 30 hours, haven't had the time to look into it, but when it starts to bounce there's probably an easy 20%+ to make in a day or three. Just watch your pull and reassessment points while settling into a routine of drinking vodka at 8am.  :Smile:  


Put some play money in and have fun with it.

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## jabir

Good time to buy...

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## Dragonfly

awesome lulu thread  :rofl: 

now we just need his friend, expat extraordinaire LoyToy, to join us for his beer oclock

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## Luigi

> awesome lulu thread

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## Begbie

> Good time to buy...


Property in Turkey, according to an email from my bank. I will pass.

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## Neo

> You're looking for transfers, so forget about BTC, the blockchain fees are too high.
> 
> ETH is good in that aspect, as it's pretty much bog standard 0.005 fee.
> 
> Easy short-term money to be made, but you need to keep your eye on it, and constantly change your pull/reassessment points. 
> 
> ETH is down around 20% in the last 30 hours, haven't had the time to look into it, but when it starts to bounce there's probably an easy 20%+ to make in a day or three. Just watch your pull and reassessment points while settling into a routine of drinking vodka at 8am.  
> 
> 
> Put some play money in and have fun with it.


I'm not looking to speculate, just a way to secure my money out of the bank. 

I'm thinking gold is the best option... but can't decide the best way to get it out the country

This...



or this... 




what do you guys think?  :Dunno:

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## Dillinger



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## lom

> I'm not looking to speculate, just a way to secure my money out of the bank.
> 
> I'm thinking gold is the best option... but can't decide the best way to get it out the country


Why move gold? Move the money to the country where you want to store your gold and buy it there.
The price of gold is the same all over the world so you don't gain anything by buying it in the sandpit.

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## baldrick

Have you opened a usd or eur bank account in Malta or Mauritius ?

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## Luigi

> Move the money to the country


Seems to be the issue he has.


Probably dodgy money, can't move it legally so has get golden teeth put in.

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## OhOh

> For any major transaction here in UAE your ID is required.. kinda wonder how that will go down on the final exit from the country.


Keep all your receipts and have info as to where your money to buy the gold, came from. Don't buy gold with Israeli flags or emblems on it.

Gold shows up on hand luggage scanners and you will be asked for proof of purchase etc.

Don't travel through India even just to change planes

Is it legal to export gold from UAE? 
Is it legal to import gold into wherever you're going too? The UK is OK in and out except export to Iran.
What is the spread between buying and selling. In Thailand bar gold is 100THB/1 baht weight (1/2 troy once)
Some countries it's illegal to take it out of the country. 
You have a secure place to store your gold?

Somebody will always buy your gold, not so much other investments. 

Currently gold is at multi year lows in some currencies, due to US$ recent gains. If you have doubts about the US$ long term value, buy gold.

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## OhOh

> Move the money to the country where you want to store your gold and buy it there.


That involves putting the money in a bank/money transfer shop to make it digital and/or fees/FX rates/buy and sell digital tokens fees. Some countries have restrictions on the amount of cash one can bring in and take out of the country. it sounds like the OP is looking at a quick exit plan.

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## OhOh

> but I have no experience in buying/selling/moving it.


Depends where your buying. I would suggest sealed one once/31.1gm bars 99.99 % gold content. Unless you have loads of money it's easier to sell the smaller bars. Every Thai town and village has a gold shop. In Europe an identifiable refiner and a sealed pack is easier.

Something like this:



These are accepted worldwide for cash.

In Thailand its 96.5% gold bars:



Just loose, they always give you a nice red bag to put it in. The bars are stamped with gold % and weight. Always check the weight on the shop scales. everything from 0.5,1, 2, 5, 10, 20baht to Kgs bars are available. A one baht Thai gold bar is about 15g. and today it's 18,900THB.

My choice would be gold bars over digital tokens. If you buy gold jewellery there is a premium.

I have never had any problems buying or selling gold in Thailand. The price is the weight x today's going rate. It is updated 3 times a day if it changes. It's a competitive business. In the UK buy and sell from online bullion dealers, not retail shops.

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## OhOh

_"The Dubai  Customs website states: “All passengers carrying Dh100,000 or more or a  sum of foreign currency of the same value are required to inform the  customs personnel about the cash they have and they should also inform  them about precious items such as gold and jewellery they may have.”
_
_
The self-declaration is required to be made with the customs authorities before check-in at the airport.


__Dubai-based  jeweller Manish Dhamani said there are no restrictions imposed on the  amount of gold one can carry out of the UAE provided the passenger can  furnish proof of the gold purchase and mode of payment. “You must have  the duly signed and stamped invoices in original with you.”_

https://www.quora.com/How-many-kilos...to-pay?share=1

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## Neo

now we're getting somewhere... cheers good info  :Wink:

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## Dillinger

You're welcome bro

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## Dillinger

Didn't you just get married Neo?

Your days of saving should be over now

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## Latindancer

Who was the lucky girl ? And what country is she from ?

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## jabir

> Property in Turkey, according to an email from my bank. I will pass.


People's Bank of Gboko?

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## Luigi

> Who was the lucky girl ? And what country is she from ?




https://teakdoor.com/photoshop-and-ph...ml#post3802505 (TD Photo Competition July & August 2018.)


Looks Samoan to me.


Faamalo! Tony!

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## jabir

> Depends where your buying. I would suggest sealed one once/31.1gm bars 99.99 % gold content. Unless you have loads of money it's easier to sell the smaller bars. Every Thai town and village has a gold shop. In Europe an identifiable refiner and a sealed pack is easier.
> 
> Something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> These are accepted worldwide for cash.
> 
> In Thailand its 96.5% gold bars:
> ...


I've bought bars here over the years but *never* managed to get the 100 bt spread in Pattaya, only in the Bkk Chinatown shops where trading is furiously competitive so you get more or less the same price at any shop.

Might have changed by now, but about 10-11 years ago a Chinese 'friend' told me about 'Chinese only' shops in Chinatown where they swap their gold bars for a token which includes an account number, then upstairs where everything is set up as at stockbrokers with computers to trade their gold on the 24/7 market in realtime. Win or lose over the session they can cash any time for the new value of their gold stack, while x or xx kg bars are not unusual.

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## Neo

> 


Is that the door knocker off your mansion.?  :smiley laughing:

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## Dillinger



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## Neo

:rofl:  platinum balls.?

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## Dillinger

Grey Gun(chester) metal

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## Dragonfly

how much is gold these days ???

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## Luigi

> Easy short-term money to be made, but you need to keep your eye on it, and constantly change your pull/reassessment points. 
> 
> ETH is down around 20% in the last 30 hours, haven't had the time to look into it, but when it starts to bounce there's probably an easy 20%+ to make in a day or three.


Bounced 5%.

Probably a good time to get in a short term buy. -5% bail point and +10% reassessment point (+5%, +15%)  

9,450b on bx.

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## OhOh

> how much is gold these days ???


Today's Thai 10am fix 18,800THB. (-50THB) 100THB margin between buy and sell prices.
Yesterday's London PM fix 1,197GBP. (+ 1.70GBP)

https://goldtraders.or.th/






> never managed to get the 100 bt spread in Pattaya


In Trat and Chanthaburi they all display the  Thai Gold Traders price. Some try to squeeze their margin. Offer a large brown envelope of 1,000THB notes and ask to see the manager. Works for me. Selling is walk in, hand the gold over, it's weighed, price is calculated, (today's price x weight) and notes are counted out on their machine. Which are meticulously checked by my darling. In and out in 5 minutes if it's me and bars, my wife likes the buying experience, making the "ladies" work for the money, so 30 minutes minimum. 

Gold jewellery is larger spread, 800 - 1,000THB.  

My wife, who always has a friend who can get a deal, never delivers. :Smile:

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## OhOh

> cheers good info


I would, myself, call customs, both UAE and wherever your destination is and get their definitive answer. Take their name, to be used if questioned at the airport. There is a web site but who knows how up to date it is, if you can find the info.

Plus anywhere you plane may land for a stopover!

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## Luigi

Watch Banged Up Abroad Nepal to set your mind at ease.  :Smile:

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## importford

wait and buy gold at the end of January 2019.
I want 5% commission on your profit for this tip!!!!!! :Smile: 



https://longforecast.com/gold-price-...021-ounce-gram



 :bananaman:

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## OhOh

> wait and buy gold at the end of January 2019.


The waiting, in or out, is always the difficult decision to make, eh?

Most years the jump starts mid December, why lose the initial burst?




> I want 5% commission on your profit


Paid in shiny g. one presumes?

Does your link has a good track record for direction and limits?

It's prediction for today, 16/8 is _"Today's range: 1167.10-1189.00." 

_So far we've seen a low of US$1160.7 (07:45 BKK Time) and a high of US$1182. The US$6 low difference, predicted v actual, may have made you a 60% profit of your stake, if you were shorting.

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## Mr Earl

Gold scares me, too easy for it to be confiscated.<br>Bitcoin is extremely secure and easily moved around the globe. But there a significant learning curve and a lot of fearmongering about because the huge threat it poses to the big banks and government.&nbsp;<br>The volatility is an issue, try to buy at a low point.. Also be ready to hold on to it for the long term. Some countries it is easier to use than others. Thailand is a PITA.<br>I used to keep my spare change cash in a crap Thai savings account,, now that's in bitcoin. So far I"ve pretty lucky with it.<br>There was a learning curve and made a couple of mistakes along the way..<br>The long term future of money is going to be bitcoin or something just like it. Very likely it will be bitcoin because of the strong network and open source algorythm, which means as the whole crypto-currency platform evolves so will bitcoin. This is what's been happenning, it's evolving.<br>Don't put all your eggs in one basket though.<br>Right now the price is pretty low compared to where it could go once early adoption really kicks in.<br>Right now we are in a pre adoption phase where people are just begining to learn about it,&nbsp; but know that the big corporate interests are still selling fear to the general public.<br>Bitcoin fits all of the Aristotilean facets for money. And fits them well. Especially the transportable, trustless and immutability aspects.<br> :Beerchug:

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## Luigi

> Bitcoin is extremely secure and easily moved around the globe.


Very high blockchain fee for transferring between wallets. Too big to make it worthwhile. 


Others are minuscule, so small as not to be noticed. ETH for example.

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## Mr Earl

> Very high blockchain fee for transferring between wallets. Too big to make it worthwhile. 
> 
> 
> Others are minuscule, so small as not to be noticed. ETH for example.


I don't move it around much, but the little I do the fees aren't really noticeable.

I do keep some DASH, LTC, ETH, BCH, ZEC. for different possible uses in the future.
 Still the strongest and most secure network is Bitcoin. The Bitcoin network also seems the most adaptive. to the scaling and privacy issues.
The thing I kinda worry about is how the mining isn't very profitable and what keeps the miners at it?
I keep my two miners running because a small steady trickle adds up over time. and i'm not really trying to turn an immediate profit on the mining enterprise.
I'm looking 2-5 years down the road. By then I expect the technology to have changed significantly.

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## baldrick

> The Bitcoin network also seems the most adaptive. to the scaling and privacy issues.


I do not know who has told ou that untruth , but because no agreement can be reached to change scaling and privacy it is exactly the reason there has been 8 different forks in the last year

and do not go spouting on about lightning network and sidechains like a lambo fanboi , because you have no understanding of how they work and why they have not been implemented yet in BTC and its forks

the only thing BTC has going for it is that it was the first

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## Mr Earl

> I do not know who has told ou that untruth , but because no agreement can be reached to change scaling and privacy it is exactly the reason there has been 8 different forks in the last year
> 
> and do not go spouting on about lightning network and sidechains like a lambo fanboi , because you have no understanding of how they work and why they have not been implemented yet in BTC and its forks
> 
> the only thing BTC has going for it is that it was the first


Sure some of the technical aspects are way over my head.
It's often hard to figure out the right question to ask.
I'm still trying to figure out the segwit question, right now my coin is in legacy.
As for LN, I'm watching and got my head spinning at the complexity.

Sheeit man! I still don't understand the different layered structure of the internet. Thankfully I don't need to.

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## lob

Historically, growing uncertainty and a rise in the price of Bitcoin have had a strong correlation. And while it remains unclear whether or not *Bitcoin is a good hedge against economic uncertainty*, the fact that once again Bitcoin has rallied above $8,000 amid mounting US-Iranian tensions, provides support for this theory.



2019 may not have been a breakthrough year for cryptocurrency, but it did mark the end of the bear market, and major strides were made towards mass adoption. *Institutional cryptocurrency trading* grew in 2019 with the launch of Bakkt Futures.



Earlier last week, Burger King in Venezuela announced that the fast food giant will begin accepting cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Binance Coin and Dash, along with *stablecoin* Tether in 40 outlets. Since Tether is not affected by volatile price movements, it may be more widely used for payments than other cryptocurrencies. We have Bitcoin Pizza Day already. Bitcoin Whopper Day, anyone?

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## bowie

hmm...

Inflation rate In 2016, Venezuela entered hyperinflation. The inflation rate reached 274% in 2016, 863% in 2017, 130,060% in 2018, 282,973% in April 2019 and 4,679% in September 2019. Since 2016, the overall inflation rate has increased to 53,798,500%.

Sure they're just looking for a stable and reliable currency...  :Smile:

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