#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  Re-Adjusting to the USA

## liveinlos

After spending a large part of my life living in Thailand, I moved back to the USA outside of Chicago a few days ago

At the time there was allot of trepidation about this decision, one I made solely for the education of my kids

Being back in the USA, one thing I have found is how cheap things are in the USA compared to Thailand.

Food in general is about 50% less than the same food at Tesco Lotus

I bought my daughter a 17" HP laptop with 6 gb of ram, Radeon Graphics, etc., etc for US $348 at Walmart

Levi's original jeans US $18 a pair at Wal-Mart

I honestly think I will save more money living in the USA than I did in Thailand

Cars are much cheaper, housing, you get more for what you pay here

Best of all the quality of life is far superior

There are tons of restaurants offering good meals for $10 or less

Customer service is still world class, everything from getting a drivers license to a new phone is a real simple process

No more stress dealing with people who cannot do their jobs and make a mountain out of a molehill

Getting the kids in school where the teachers know what they are doing is a real breath of fresh air and alleviated any concerns that they would remain in Thailand uneducated and working for 10,000 baht the rest of their lives

Even with international school in Thailand, after placement testing here, my kids are way behind the grade they should be in

All that money for international school was completely wasted

The decision is not for everyone and it takes allot of gusto to uproot an entire life and start over

The USA is still foreign to me. Lots of Russians, Indians, Hispanics all over the place, even in the suburbs. Everyone trying to make a go of it

I do like the idea that the police are not setting up road blocks scamming me for cash everyday and that you can actually call 911 if you have an emergency

Gun ownership rights, good to be able to own a gun if you want one

There is allot to be said about it, although in my heart I still have not convinced myself this is the final solution however it is the current solution until the kids are off on their own

Maybe with time the USA will grow on me

US Marriage VISA Process is now a 10 month process, so you better plan long before departure if you are going to go this route

When I did this, I hired a lawyer in the USA to take care of it as Thai legal cannot be trusted once they get your money

If anyone wants to see the current requirements for the USA Marriage VISA, my lawyer has an easy checklist explaining in detail exactly what you need.

The lawyer charged me US $950 which is worth it to me not to go through the hassle and the visa fee itself is now another US $420. You also have to have the wife get a medical that is recommended by the US Embassy in Thailand.

You can save the lawyer fee with the checklist; if anyone wants a copy send me a PM

Yeh, its still freezing cold, it's not Thailand, but then again, it is a new beginning

If you are living or working in Thailand for many years, you will find out NOT many US companies want to take a chance to hire you, no matter if you have advanced education or not. 

Too many US workers out of jobs looking for work and easier for companies to deal with someone in the USA than hiring from Thailand.

I can only thank god I stayed current in my professional field all those years, working in Thailand and all the surrounding countries

However, it was not easy at all. I bet I sent my resume out at least 200+ times

In the end this is the right decision for me, for my kids, probably less stressful as customer service here is actually here to help, not stress you out.

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## Dillinger

Wot about all the fat people ?:-)

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## slackula

Wow, good luck with the move.

What did you do with the nifty cafe racer you made out of the CBR900RR?

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## Dead Metal

Wishing you and your family all the very best in your new world, hope it goes well for you, at least you can relax more.

I keep looking at what is being said by TD community and you look under the surface and its not all it first appears to be on the surface, a lot of jaded guys out there. So i will hang back a while longer. 
All the best Dead Metal

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## Necron99

Keep in touch and let us know how it's working out. The US you left is vastly different from the one you are returning to.

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## terry57

> A lot of jaded guys out there.


The most jaded are the ones who have not done there homework and have moved over to Thailand with out spending many years learning about the place.

Also many of these guys have cashed in there chips at home and are now well foked as far as going home. They dislike Thailand because they are miserable with there lives.

On the other hand there are many expats who are perfectly happy in Thailand especially the ones who have a nice wife and family. 

Easy really to what makes people happy.

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## FlyFree

> Originally Posted by Dead Metal
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of jaded guys out there.
> 
> 
> The most jaded are the ones who have not done there homework and have moved over to Thailand with out spending many years learning about the place.
> 
> ...



Not particular to you in any way, but it's notable that if anyone says anything about living in Thailand the same knee-jerk justifications pop up immediately.


Now if all really was so rosy, I'd expect more of a 'oh well, I can't be bothered' attitude, overall.


There appears to be something to defend. Rhetorical - I wonder why.

As they say in the movies - the generic lady doth protest too much.

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## terry57

^

That's a fair comment mate but I think my comment was quite balanced.

Lots of guys do isolate themselves from there home country then find out Thailand ain't the paradise they thought it was.  

There then stuck here and there life is shit. 

I recon its a matter of making ones self happy where ever one lives and leave ones options open.

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## armstrong

can i ask what school did you send your kids to in Thailand?

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## Spin

> this decision, one I made solely for the education of my kids


Fair play to you.




> one thing I have found is how cheap things are in the USA compared to Thailand.


Yep and the quality is there and guarantees mean something.



> 17" HP laptop with 6 gb of ram, Radeon Graphics, etc., etc for US $348 at Walmart


Send me one of those.



> No more stress dealing with people who cannot do their jobs


They can do their jobs. It's just that they are doing everything the Thai way, which, to guys like me, just seems like a load of shit.




> Getting the kids in school where the teachers know what they are doing is a real breath of fresh air


Very few people in Thailand know much about what they do, the closer you look, the more you realise.





> my kids are way behind the grade they should be in


Like you said, money wasted, given the time, if I had kids I would home school them. 

Good luck with the new start!

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## xanax

> ^
> 
> That's a fair comment mate but I think my comment was quite balanced.
> 
> Lots of guys do isolate themselves from there home country then find out Thailand ain't the paradise they thought it was.  
> 
> There then stuck here and there life is shit. 
> 
> I recon its a matter of making ones self happy where ever one lives and leave ones options open.


How long have you lived in Thailand terry? you must been here for a while surely to be so knowledgeable about expats living here, or is it just from what you read on TD?

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## cheekyman

Best of luck LOS - hope u r happy - remember u can always go back to Thailand - u r not a tree!  :Smile:

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## Marmite the Dog

> Gun ownership rights, good to be able to own a gun if you want one


Apart from this piece of inanity, well done and good luck to you and your kids. Hopefully their school wont make international news one day.

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## SEA Traveler

> Gun ownership rights, good to be able to own a gun if you want one.



Just want to balance things out and support you on your thoughts on this one liveinlos as you don't ever want to become a helpless victim.  Cheers and Good Luck with your decision to move back to the US.

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## fishlocker

I went ice fishing at a local pond yesterday with some Laotian friends of mine in southern Wisconsin. Didn't need a respirator just boots and a jacket. You will adjust and if you get home sick take the kids to Chinatown in July. Best of luck and enjoy your freedom and your firearms. I know I do. Well except for my Franchi SPAS12. Its a heavy POS. No wonder it never really caught on here.

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## Stumpy

Welcome back. Although I will never have children in TL I understand your thoughts about education.

Virtually all of what you stated is what I said when I returned except the "Good meals" for $10. That just cant happen here in America, it is all processed crap. If you want healthy food it will cost you a fortune. Plus the fierce competition here and materialistic ways grate on you quickly. But both are manageable. 

Having now lived in both places I will always have a place to land here for the missus and I. Doubt I can live both places full time. Why I got her "greencarded" up so we can bounce back and forth anytime. 

Good luck to you.

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## chingching

well it was cheap to live 20 years but now its not cheap any more.
you cant delude yourself over this ...

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## cdnski12

Originally, I was going to emmigrate to LOS, but @ 66 years old, the thought of eventually needing some kind of serious health care at some stage, I determined that it would be better to spend the 4 months per year of decent weather in LOS and the balance in safe Canada. I really would not want my children subjected to a lousy Thai education ... so Kudos to you for making the correct decision. You can always holiday in LOS.

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## KEVIN2008

Best of luck with the move. Thai education is a lost cause and will continue to remain so....

Education in Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 


The acquired knowledge and competency of newly graduated teachers from the Rajaphat Universities at is often comparable to the level of an American senior high school graduation, a British A-level, a French Baccalauréat, or a German Abitur. Apart from the security of being a civil servant with guaranteed employment and a pension, and the extraordinary cultural respect for the profession, there is little incentive to choose a future as a teacher in a government school. As a result, most classes in secondary schools are overcrowded with often as many as sixty students in a classroom, a situation that continues to favour the rote system that is firmly anchored in Thai culture as the only method possible.
As teaching by rote requires little pedagogic skill, once qualified  apart from weekend seminars which are considered to be part of the reward system  teachers tend to resist attempts to encourage them to engage in any forms of further training to improve their subject knowledge and to adopt new methodologies which will require them to use more initiative and to be more creative.
Students are not encouraged to develop analytical and critical thinking skills, which is clearly demonstrated by their inability to complete a cloze test, or to grasp a notion through context. The teachers will avoid introducing dialogue into the classroom or eliciting response from the students  to give a wrong answer would be to lose face in the presence of one's peers, a situation that in Thai culture must always be avoided.
Dr. Adith Cheosokul, professor, Chulalongkorn University, September 1, 2002: "Thai kids have no courage to question their teachers foreign students are very eager to communicate with their teachers. The Thais are usually silent in class. I think it's the culture. Our students tend to uphold teachers as demi-gods"  a perception that is reinforced by the celebration of wai khru (literally 'praise the teacher') day, in all schools and colleges shortly after the beginning of the new school year, where during a festive general assembly, the students file before the teachers on their knees and offer them gifts, usually of real or hand-crafted flowers.
The essence of education therefore still hinges first and foremost on the traditional values of Buddhism, respect for the king, the monkhood, the teachers, and the family (in that order) through the rote method. Whilst indisputably very noble, these features are the main hurdle to the implementation of modern educational methodology and the development of a Western cultural approach to communication.

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## Camel Toe

I think the happiest guys in Thailand are those who burned all bridges when they left home.  There's really no reason to be unhappy, or so they say.  Things are easy to accept when you have no options.

Logical if you buy farang food it'll cost more in LoS.  And electronics are cheaper back home, cars too.  And the option to buy good used goods is a reality.  In the Third World used usually means trashed.

But when it comes time to pay rent, Thailand wins every time.  A lovely home in BKK costs about what a deposit would be on a home in California.

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## Stumpy

> I think the happiest guys in Thailand are those who burned all bridges when they left home.  There's really no reason to be unhappy, or so they say.  Things are easy to accept when you have no options.
> 
> Logical if you buy farang food it'll cost more in LoS.  And electronics are cheaper back home, cars too.  And the option to buy good used goods is a reality.  In the Third World used usually means trashed.
> 
> But when it comes time to pay rent, Thailand wins every time.  A lovely home in BKK costs about what a deposit would be on a home in California.


This discussion could go on and on. IMHO it boils down to ones position in life and somehow you will find a way to justify it to make it look like what you left was pathetic and where you are now is golden. Its how we are as humans I suspect. I have done it as have others

If what LivininLOS has done is the right thing for him and his family then great. Best of luck. 

I re-read his list with one of my colleagues over lunch and while I am in no way defending Thailand or reacting to his assessment there are so many things not considered that slapped me when I moved back here. When I was in TL my monthly living costs were $900 -$1000(typical) to $1200 (if I traveled), worst case $1500. Now mind you I do not have children. Since being back here(California) my living costs range between $2800 to $3500. This not traveling, not living it up, having to work full time and covering all the people who have endless hands in my pocket. The money just seems to bleed away. I would like to hear back on his 6 month POV after he has settled into to his rent(mortgage), utilities costs, car payments, auto insurance, cell phone bills, medical insurance, cable, internet, babysitting if the wife works, then income taxes etc. My GF and I just recently when on a trip for 4 days to Las Vegas to play a bit and go to Hoover dam etc. That trip including airfare cost  a bit over $2000. Add that to the living costs and one month it was over $5,000 (150,000 baht). 

Anyway just some thoughts.

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## Gerbil

> Wot about all the fat people ?:-)


That's where the cheap food comes from  :bunny3:

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## Camel Toe

^^ Bottom line for me is the USA is boring.  It's predictable.  It eats money.  Not 6 months ago I was living in Ft Worth.  Lovely condo, peaceful, no robberies, no street dogs, no sirens.  Every person in the neighborhood would walk their dog with a plastic bag and pooper-schooper in hand.  The electricity never failed.  My cell phone never dropped calls.  You could dial 911 and there'd be screeching tires in front of the house in 5 minutes.  Fookin boring!

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## RickThai

ChiTown is a dangerous place to live.  Make sure your kids are cautious when hanging out with the African-americans.  Their murder rate is extremely high when compared to the Thais.

Good luck.

RickThai

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## Camel Toe

> Their murder rate is extremely high when compared to the Thais.


Except for the years of Toxic's war on drugs.   And it'd make little difference if you die in Chicago from a gunshot than in Thailand on a motorbike.  Death is what it is.  I had two accidents in one month.  Both due to Thai haphazardness.  If you drive a motorbike and haven't had the experience it's coming, believe me the probability is not in your favour.  Belief in afterlife is a bitch innit?

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## cambtek

A thoughtful post, it's not just the quality of the schools in Thailand it's the jobs available afterwards.However I believe that good jobs are hard to come by in the US.
I have recently returned to Australia after many years away and in contrast to the US everything except electronics is expensive.Housing, rents, power, food, beer are incredibly expensive.But people are wealthy with beautiful houses, often two new cars and children in private schools.
It is clean, the beaches are immaculate and the air is fresh.But do I want to die here, no thanks.Give me the pension and I am out of here.

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## DrAndy

> But people are wealthy with beautiful houses, often two new cars and children in private schools.


what proportion of the population are you talking about?

and are they mortgaged to the hilt, as well as bank loans for the cars etc etc?

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## Camel Toe

That's a good point .. anything not paid for is not yours.  Thing is all your neighbors are in the same fix so your debt becomes destigmatized.   And that's even worse!

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## Bobcock

I'm always amazed at how cheap High Street shopping is when we make our trips to the UK.

Off to the US in a few weeks time, we going to shop a lot there, Thailand shopping is just getting stupid if you want anything decent.

I pay more for my apartment here than I get for my house in Ealing, London.

Happier to feed the US/UK economy over this one.

I look forward to the day I depart Thailand for a new adventure, even if it is London.

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## Camel Toe

> I look forward to the day I depart Thailand for a new adventure


I'm glad I left.  It's always easier to stay where you are.

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## Butterfly

> I look forward to the day I depart Thailand for a new adventure, even if it is London.


looks like everyone is reaching a consensus over Thailand, even the old timers

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## Bobcock

I've had a gutsfull..... it's getting worse, it's getting more corrupt, more dangerous, more disrespectful..... you used to be able to avoid the types that have enough money to know the rules don't apply. There is now a layer of middle class who think this applies to them and even the road sweepers are smart enough to know that when it comes to foreigners he's in the ascendency.

This is not a sudden realisation, it's not constant and I am not at the point of no return but I reckon another year or so will give me the chance to walk away without regrets.. Even my wife wants out.

These days I find myself keeping more and more to myself, work / home, we've gone from 3-4 restaurants a week to not having been out to dinner this year (that I can remember).

It worries me about my kids growing up in this environment. I know the UK has it's downside, but at the moment I don't know where I will be going next, but wherever it is I'm looking forward to a change.

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## Zooheekock

I'm always amazed that being a good consumer is such a big factor in these threads - is the price of electronic gadgetry and clothes you don't need really such a determinate factor in some people's quality of life? That seems very sad.

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## ltnt

> looks like everyone is reaching a consensus over Thailand, even the old timers


What would that be Butterfy?  That its different in Thailand from living in Western Countries?

People make decisions based on where they are at the moment in their lives.  Life changes and so do peoples needs and priorities.

Nothing stays the same and thankfully it does change.

Moving from Thailand to Chicago for your families well being/educational needs fits into the above list.

Best of luck in your endeavors to re-enter American society.  I suspect not to difficult for you, but for your remaining family members its still new and different.

JPPR has got some pretty good insight on re-entry.  Well done JPPR.

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## Camel Toe

I prefer to live in countries where I feel welcome.

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## ltnt

^Then I suspect you don't live in Thailand?

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## Butterfly

> I know the UK has it's downside, but at the moment I don't know where I will be going next, but wherever it is I'm looking forward to a change.


Maybe Australia could be a nice compromise, and as British, you can pretty much go anywhere in Europe. 

May I recommend Bruges in Belgium ?  :Razz:

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## Butterfly

> These days I find myself keeping more and more to myself, work / home, we've gone from 3-4 restaurants a week to not having been out to dinner this year (that I can remember).


interesting, I can understand that feeling, I went through that phase already, I think everyone has when they are ready to jump ship.

It's also possible that we, old timers, feel some kind of general unease because the environment is "brewing" something, we don't know what or when, and our internal senses are telling us to get the fuck out pronto.

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## Zooheekock

> you will find a way to justify it to make it look like what you left was pathetic and where you are now is golden


I think there's a lot of truth in this - a huge proportion of people's opinions are post-hoc rationalisations: at least in part, you like somewhere because you live there, rather than living somewhere because you like it.

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## DrAndy

> I pay more for my apartment here than I get for my house in Ealing, London.


bloody hell; what do you have in Ealing?  must be a terrible place

good apartments here can be had for the same price as a room in a shared house in London, or less



> I'm always amazed that being a good consumer is such a big factor in these threads - is the price of electronic gadgetry and clothes you don't need really such a determinate factor in some people's quality of life? That seems very sad.


well, that is what their lives seem to be controlled by; it is difficult to escape the consumer rat race just by moving countries, it is well implanted

there is one member here who is thinking of bringing half his consumer goods with him because they are cheaper at home, even though they will not match the local power supply - total madness

save some money and get lots of problems. Can't let go of all those goodies, half of which will never get used, they are just toys he needed to buy



> I prefer to live in countries where I feel welcome


I agree, and Thailand is one of those

I have never been spat at in the street, shouldered to one side or shouted at by strangers. In general, I get smiles and good feelings

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## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by JPR2
> 
> you will find a way to justify it to make it look like what you left was pathetic and where you are now is golden
> 
> 
> I think there's a lot of truth in this - a huge proportion of people's opinions are post-hoc rationalisations: at least in part, you like somewhere because you live there, rather than living somewhere because you like it.



nothing wrong with that if it makes them happy

and you cannot really know if you like somewhere unless you live there

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## baobao

I hope the OP has employer-provided health insurance.

Otherwise, my total living expenses might be enough to buy a policy for his family and set some money aside for co-pays and deductibles. 

But having insurance doesn't alway protect against bankrupting medical expenses.

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## Butterfly

> I have never been spat at in the street, shouldered to one side or shouted at by strangers. In general, I get smiles and good feelings


it's bad luck to spit on old witches, that's why

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## Necron99

I have doable neighbors on 3 sides. Don't think that would happen in Oz.

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## Hypatia

> ^
> 
> That's a fair comment mate but I think my comment was quite balanced.
> 
> Lots of guys do isolate themselves from there home country then find out Thailand ain't the paradise they thought it was.  
> 
> There then stuck here and there life is shit. 
> 
> I recon its a matter of making ones self happy where ever one lives and leave ones options open.


 Thailand is great, it's Thai people who ruin it. 
 Good for you, OP  I'm  heading back  to US hopefully by end of the year  and I cannot wait. You're  right it is cheaper, and the quality of humanity is far  above this  feudal monkeydom

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## AntRobertson

> I cannot wait


Sentiments shared by many, no doubt.

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## sabang

> Thailand is great, it's Thai people who ruin it.


The USA is stunning, and real Americans are great people too. Pity about those damn European immigrants though.  :mid:

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## Hypatia

^^  Of course I'll still take every opportunity to diss twatland and expose the lies the tourism industry  perpetuates. 
 ^ Seems American immigrants  over the last century are  an asset, hard working, eager to assimilate and  opening damn good restaurants

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## slackula

> you like somewhere because you live there, rather than living somewhere because you like it


I don't particularly like or dislike Thailand. It has its pros and cons, but then again where doesn't?

Everybody has to be somewhere, I happen to find myself here. *shrug*

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## Zooheekock

> Good for you, OP I'm heading back to US hopefully by end of the year and I cannot wait. You're right it is cheaper, and the quality of humanity is far above this feudal monkeydom
> 
> Of course I'll still take every opportunity to diss twatland and expose the lies the tourism industry perpetuates.


Have you considered Bournemouth? I think you might like it.

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## AntRobertson

> Of course I'll still take every opportunity to diss twatland and expose the lies the tourism industry perpetuates.


Of course you will. Bitter and vindictive people are like that because they generally can't let go.

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## sabang

I think someone should start a 'Bitter n Twisted and leaving Thailand' thread. It could go on for years, thousands of posts and multiple bitter drinkers.

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## kmart

Good luck to the OP on his move back to the US. It's usually a good idea to take time out from Thailand and spend a bit of time in your home country or culture to find a bit of perspective, and live the pros and cons before making a decision.
Being anywhere _all_ the time can tend to piss me off.

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## terry57

> Maybe Australia could be a nice compromise.


No its not a compromise as its as expensive as fuk, fantastic country but really out of control price wise.

Normal family guys doing it hard Supporting there lot. 

Anyone who suggests its cheaper to live here than in Thailand is a dead set wanker and I don't believe for a second that the US is any different.

Maybe on a few things but overall when its all weighed up there's no way.

Anyway this thread is quite meaningless as it all depends whether one has kids or not and must pay for an International School. That's hugely Expensive in any country.

At the end of the day if punters want to bolt back home good on them.

Free world innit.  Let the guys who enjoy being in Thailand live in peace EH.

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## beazalbob69

Good luck OP I just left the US a couple of months ago for something different and you just returned for something different. There is probably some famous quote I could post about the color of grass or something but cant remember it right now so again good luck!

I have an honest question for the OP or anyone else for that matter. Why is an education important? Whats wrong with just being a simple farmer? Stupid people will do stupid things regardless of their education. I have met people in Thailand that know so much more about life than many of the supposedly educated people I have known in the US it makes me question the whole education system. If your children express a desire for a better education than that is a different story but just assuming that people need an education just because that was the way you were raised in the west is kind of strange to me.

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## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by Hypatia
> 
> I cannot wait
> 
> 
> Sentiments shared by many, no doubt.


Amen.

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## liveinlos

> can i ask what school did you send your kids to in Thailand?


Prem International in Chiang Mai

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## liveinlos

> Originally Posted by Camel Toe
> 
> 
> I think the happiest guys in Thailand are those who burned all bridges when they left home.  There's really no reason to be unhappy, or so they say.  Things are easy to accept when you have no options.
> 
> Logical if you buy farang food it'll cost more in LoS.  And electronics are cheaper back home, cars too.  And the option to buy good used goods is a reality.  In the Third World used usually means trashed.
> 
> But when it comes time to pay rent, Thailand wins every time.  A lovely home in BKK costs about what a deposit would be on a home in California.
> 
> ...


California has housing 391% above the US National Average. Comparing California is the absolute worst case. There are many places in middle America and others where a 3,000,000 baht house will completely blow away a Thai house of that cost.

Now compare California (US most expensive housing state) with the most expensive housing in Bangkok. I think you will see when comparing apples to apples, the US still comes out on top

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## liveinlos

> Originally Posted by Bobcock
> 
> I pay more for my apartment here than I get for my house in Ealing, London.
> 
> 
> bloody hell; what do you have in Ealing?  must be a terrible place
> 
> good apartments here can be had for the same price as a room in a shared house in London, or less
> 
> ...


It you think you are welcome in Thailand, you are fooling yourself. Many foreigners including you get a false sense of security that they are different than the other 100,000 foreigners in Thailand. Any foreigner can be a victim in Thailand simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you were truly as welcome as you think, the VISA regulations would not be as hard as they are. Thai's want your money, not you. Sad fact.

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## liveinlos

> I hope the OP has employer-provided health insurance.
> 
> Otherwise, my total living expenses might be enough to buy a policy for his family and set some money aside for co-pays and deductibles. 
> 
> But having insurance doesn't alway protect against bankrupting medical expenses.


I work for a large company that has all the benefits, medical, dental, 401k, bonus

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## liveinlos

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> 
> ^
> 
> That's a fair comment mate but I think my comment was quite balanced.
> 
> Lots of guys do isolate themselves from there home country then find out Thailand ain't the paradise they thought it was.  
> 
> ...


You are 100% correct. Thailand is great. I found the rural people in Isaan most friendly. However, city people and any in the tourists areas are just downright horrible.

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## liveinlos

> Good luck OP I just left the US a couple of months ago for something different and you just returned for something different. There is probably some famous quote I could post about the color of grass or something but cant remember it right now so again good luck!
> 
> I have an honest question for the OP or anyone else for that matter. Why is an education important? Whats wrong with just being a simple farmer? Stupid people will do stupid things regardless of their education. I have met people in Thailand that know so much more about life than many of the supposedly educated people I have known in the US it makes me question the whole education system. If your children express a desire for a better education than that is a different story but just assuming that people need an education just because that was the way you were raised in the west is kind of strange to me.


I want to give my kids the chance and the choice to be what THEY want to be in their own lives. I do not want to force them into farming or something so low income they will never be able to afford a house or car which is how 90% of the Thai Uni graduates end up

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## terry57

> Many foreigners including you get a false sense of security that they are different than the other 100,000 foreigners in Thailand. Any foreigner can be a victim in Thailand simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.




Mate I respect you for giving your kids the opportunity to a decent education in the US, its very Important that the children get the best opportunity and a very valid reason to remove them from Thailand.

On your other statement concerning about becoming a victim of crime in Thailand versus The USA You must be taking the piss EH.

America has near on the largest population of nutters on the face of the earth as every screaming nut case can get a gun and go on a killing spree.

Jeez, nearly happens every other month now. 

Don't worry, violence in my town is entrenched as well and going out for some squirt on a Saturday night is a dangerous proposition. Seems to be everywhere these days.

I feel so much safer in Thailand. Never had a problem regards my safety and I've traveled many thousands of KLM to many far out provinces over many years.  

Anyway all the best with your future.

Cheers

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by Hypatia
> 
> Of course I'll still take every opportunity to diss twatland and expose the lies the tourism industry perpetuates.
> 
> 
> Of course you will. Bitter and vindictive people are like that because they generally can't let go.


My guess would be that she has lived in Thailand for about a year. Like most of her ilk, at the end of a year, she is an authority, and knows far more than those of us who have been living and working happily in Asia for 30+ years. American women are like that - their total authority on virtually any subject is rivaled only by their total ignorance of the subject matter. She will now flee home, badmouth Asia to all of her friends, and, if they are like her and listen to her, perhaps they will do the world a favor and stay at home.

----------


## peterb17

As a relative newbie- living here for a year and a half ( but visiting for 25 years +) this has been an interesting thread.
Few thoughts- never burn your boats at home, don't think a condo here is an investment- you need to be able to just walk away.
Enjoy the region and travel- been to South Korea so far this year.
Don't think Thailand is a dirt cheap place to live- its not.
Be prepared for a lack of culture- you can hardly discuss the latest exhibition at the Tate Modern with the locals.
Learn Thai
Love the food and learn how to cook!
But compared to the giant filthy ghetto that London has become its great - feel totally safe here and have felt welcome- invited to weddings etc.

And that guy who wants to bring  over primitive 110V appliances - cheapskate or what!

At the moment have no desire to return to the UK- give a few years maybe different- we shall see?

----------


## Kurgen

Frontal labotomy , removal of taste buds and an elasticated waistband should ready you.

PS, didn't bother reading past the headline.

----------


## sranchito

> Good luck OP I just left the US a couple of months ago for something different and you just returned for something different. There is probably some famous quote I could post about the color of grass or something but cant remember it right now so again good luck!
> 
> I have an honest question for the OP or anyone else for that matter. Why is an education important? Whats wrong with just being a simple farmer? Stupid people will do stupid things regardless of their education. I have met people in Thailand that know so much more about life than many of the supposedly educated people I have known in the US it makes me question the whole education system. If your children express a desire for a better education than that is a different story but just assuming that people need an education just because that was the way you were raised in the west is kind of strange to me.


Being a farmer doesn't mean you are stupid.  Ever hear of an Ag degree?  As in Texas A&M?  Also, some of the smartest people I know don't have formal educations.  And, these people I am referring to make a minimum 6-figure income and beyond.

The level of ones education is not indicative of ones intelligence.

----------


## tentoesup

> Originally Posted by liveinlos
> 
> Gun ownership rights, good to be able to own a gun if you want one
> 
> 
> Apart from this piece of inanity, well done and good luck to you and your kids. *Hopefully their school wont make international news one day*.


Marmite, You're better than that, I know you are!

----------


## sabang

> It you think you are welcome in Thailand, you are fooling yourself.


I feel welcome in my locality, and that is what matters to me. Fuk Thailand, the US, Australia, etc- they are just countries, by someones invented definition. I live with people, not flags.



> Any foreigner can be a victim in Thailand simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Unlike, say, anywhere else in the world.

----------


## beazalbob69

> Originally Posted by beazalbob69
> 
> 
> Good luck OP I just left the US a couple of months ago for something different and you just returned for something different. There is probably some famous quote I could post about the color of grass or something but cant remember it right now so again good luck!
> 
> I have an honest question for the OP or anyone else for that matter. Why is an education important? Whats wrong with just being a simple farmer? Stupid people will do stupid things regardless of their education. I have met people in Thailand that know so much more about life than many of the supposedly educated people I have known in the US it makes me question the whole education system. If your children express a desire for a better education than that is a different story but just assuming that people need an education just because that was the way you were raised in the west is kind of strange to me.
> 
> 
> Being a farmer doesn't mean you are stupid.  Ever hear of an Ag degree?  As in Texas A&M?  Also, some of the smartest people I know don't have formal educations.  And, these people I am referring to make a minimum 6-figure income and beyond.
> ...


Thats actually the point i was trying and failing to make. Thank you for clearing it up.
To add i only have a high school education and i have done better for myself than many college grads that i have known. We are in agreement.

----------


## sabang

> Why is an education important?


It is a little sad that we have become so institutionalised within our culture that we only acquaint education with degrees. I respect the educated, but I admire the self educated. I would rarely if ever dissuade someone from pursuing 'an education' if they have they have the ability and opportunity to do so. Apart from giving one a hitch towards life's easier roads, it also helps you learn how to think individually, which can be a major attribute in later years.

----------


## Camel Toe

To me education and marriage both can be something you get done, not for yourself but for someone else .. like your folks.

The best part of university is the brain activity.  I can't see how spending four-five years mixing with students and professors could hurt you.  What's important to me is to be able to communicate well with people of all social levels and education.  Without education, self-taught or formal, you'd be missing one tier.  Speak correctly when the encounter calls for it, speak street on the street, talk shit to a woman, recite poetry to women, have depth.  People will judge you by what you say and how well you say it.  Being attractive to people makes life easier.

----------


## BobR

Good luck to you in Illinois, you made a good decision, this is not a great place to raise a child, and having a wife defeats one of the only remaining reasons to be here (comment intended in a nice way). 
Good timing too; the Dollar hit a 16 year low against the Baht today so the prices are only going to get worse.

----------


## zippy

Well, never lived in Thailand, and my longest time spent there was 3 months, but that 3 months was long enough, I dont think I would enjoy Thailand full time. Certain things there are cheaper than here at home ( Vancouver BC ) rent, beer is about half price compared to here, food if you dont eat alot of western food. Of course bar girls are still a bargain, though gogo girls seem to be getting pretty pricey, close to what you would pay a pro here. I will continue to do what Thailand wants me to do anyways, come there for a month or two holiday, spend my cash and leave. I could never picture retiring in Thailand, as it seems the visa hurdles are just a pain in the ass.

----------


## Camel Toe

The up-coming revolution and subsequent coups is enough to keep me away from any planning.

----------


## Lorenzo

> I hope the OP has employer-provided health insurance.
> 
> Otherwise, my total living expenses might be enough to buy a policy for his family and set some money aside for co-pays and deductibles. 
> 
> But having insurance doesn't alway protect against bankrupting medical expenses.


Very true. Here is an amazing article on this subject. 


Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us - TIME

----------


## rickschoppers

Having come back to the US recently like JP, I can give you my thoughts. Some of the statements you made were correct, but you must have eaten a lot of western food and lived in a very expensive house and neighborhood. I will not dispute the education issue and that is why you probably moved back.

You can live in Thailand on a lot less money than in the States and that is a fact. Rent is very very inexpensive in Thailand as is travel. Utilities are a fraction of what you pay anywhere in the US and if you are in Chicago, good luck with your heating bills. It depends on what kind of electronics you are talking about whether they are cheaper in Thailand or the US. Overall the cost of living is much higher in the US due to all the other costs associated with living there such are car insurance, road tolls, health insurance, taxes on everything, clothes or just transportation.

I was in the Bay Area last week and paid $128 a night for a below average room. Yes, it was near the water, but not what I had expected. I drove over to Jack London Square for a seafood meal and wound up paying $35 for two appetizers and a glass of wine. I did not order a full meal since they started at $25. Even if I went to Burger King, it would cost close to $10, so I do not understand how you could say food less in the US.

My feeling is that you moved back to the US because of your kids education. As I said before, no argument that it is better than Thailand, but take a look where the US is rated in the world. Pretty sad really considering how much it costs to live in America.

I agree that it would be a better existence to maybe live in Thailand during the better months and come back to the States during rainy season. However, I have a wife and child to transport and it would cost at least $3000 for the round trip tickets. Then once back, how much to go to Disneyland or Sea World? No the US is no bargain and I would disagree that living in Thailand costs about the same IMHO.

----------


## Camel Toe

But everything in Thailand is cheap because it should be.  Transportation?  That's a laugh.  What are you chances of dying on the highway with some yaba head at the wheel?  How about barking and shitting dogs in the best of neighborhoods.  Nothing lends itself more to ghetto living than those fookin dogs!  Call "911" and the cops will want to charge you for gasoline before they come.  Put your kid in a cheap school so he can learn how to be an idiot and proud of it.  Eat rice every meal like some street beggar in India.  How about a klong taxi?  Don't get any water on yourself .. people have died from it.

----------


## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by baobao
> 
> 
> I hope the OP has employer-provided health insurance.
> 
> Otherwise, my total living expenses might be enough to buy a policy for his family and set some money aside for co-pays and deductibles. 
> 
> But having insurance doesn't alway protect against bankrupting medical expenses.
> 
> ...


 While way off tangent from LivininLOS's thread, Years back companies offered stellar medical benefits. In fact those were driven incentives. Virtually no employee contribution and no deductible. Just go. 

Fast forward now its painful. Avg employee monthly contribution for a family is ~ $400 a month ($4800 a year) this is then compounded by the extremely high deductible ($5000 to $7500) that must be satisfied prior to the med benefits actually kicking in plus you have to check carefully as there is a cap on what they will pay. Plus you have co pays on visits and prescriptions. Worse thing is every year the deductible resets. Now if you are a sickly person or family then maybe this is still what one would call a "Benefit" but overall it is very expensive insurance. I did not even touch on dentistry. That's another entire cost. 

There are so many gotcha's here that you simply do not acct for when you move back. When you are here you forget as you are accustomed to the slow bleed out.

----------


## rickschoppers

> But everything in Thailand is cheap because it should be.  Transportation?  That's a laugh.  What are you chances of dying on the highway with some yaba head at the wheel?  How about barking and shitting dogs in the best of neighborhoods.  Nothing lends itself more to ghetto living than those fookin dogs!  Call "911" and the cops will want to charge you for gasoline before they come.  Put your kid in a cheap school so he can learn how to be an idiot and proud of it.  Eat rice every meal like some street beggar in India.  How about a klong taxi?  Don't get any water on yourself .. people have died from it.


So they drive by all the rules in Mexico, do they? No dogs in Mexico because you eat them at the taco stands and the local police have your best interests at heart. How are the schools in Mexico? Mexican taxis NEVER over charge.

And the water in Mexico, oh the wonderful water. Aren't you kinda the pot calling the kettle black Camel?

----------


## DrAndy

> Thailand is great, it's Thai people who ruin it.





> this feudal monkeydom


I find it is more often the stupid and inane expats that ruin many places




> Seems American immigrants over the last century are an asset, hard working, eager to assimilate and opening damn good restaurants


yeah yeah, same old racist tripe




> as it all depends whether one has kids or not and must pay for an International School.


well Terry, some people think an International school is worth it, I don't, and have talked to many people who have found that they are just a rip-off

you don't "have to" send your kids there






> Why is an education important?


that is worth a thread on its own, Bob

but education gives you choice and opportunities, but is not really essential

my brother was useless at school and hated it. He got apprenticed to a cabinetmaker and branched off into antique restoring

he made a great career and became one of the few who are sought after for the most delicate jobs, esp clocks

so if you are intelligent, you can make a success of your life without education but it may be a much harder path

----------


## Boon Mee

> [
> so if you are intelligent, you can make a success of your life without education but it may be a much harder path


Indeed.

The main element here is an avoidance of laziness.

Western nations (Nanny States) seem to be promoting dependency and entitlement.

----------


## Zooheekock

> education gives you choice and opportunities, but is not really essential


Partly, though framing education in purely instrumental terms (i.e. getting a good education is worthwhile because it gets you a well-paying job) is wrong and it's one reason why education systems keep fucking up. Education is - or ought to be - valuable because it makes you a better person than you would be without it. It leads to human flourishing - if you are able to think clearly, if you have a knowledge of the world, if you are able to enjoy and appreciate the arts, you have a richer life than you would have without any of these things.



> The main element here is an avoidance of laziness.


Nothing wrong with laziness, especially in the hideously Protestant way which I'm sure you mean.

----------


## ltnt

JPPR and Rickschoopers are speaking about cost of living in the San Francisco Bay area.  Perhaps an unrealistic cost of living index for say someone living in Brownsville Texas?

San Francisco Bay Area is perhaps one of the most expensive areas in the USA to live in.  Not comparing apples to oranges, but cost of living in Thailand is not even close to what one would have to pay out living in SFBA.

Once you "own," your place in Thailand, cost of living is significantly low.  My cost of living per month in LOS is less than 30,000baht per month if only paying for utilitis and normal day to day living costs.

Insurance isn't any bargain in Thailand if you want first class insurance.

Future cost of living in Thailand is not going to improve, but it is manageable given that one has not got a society that can speak up for itself.  The government control of the Thai people will forever keep costs within reach of its general population or risk its overthrow.

Life in  the USA could be nice if one were to earn $5 or $6,000 per month and live in say Arkansas.

Education is important for most people.  It offers an opportunity to gain knowledge and to use that knowledge for your life experience.  At least giving your children the opportunity to make a future choice about what and where they want to go in life is presented.  As noted a degree is not a definition of intelligence, just simply that you acquired another step in the ladder of life.  Bill Gates and Steven Jobs are perfect examples of people who took a pass on further education for making a life of their own choosing.

Why not?

----------


## rickschoppers

^
I was using the bay area as an example only because I was there last week. Now back in Nevada, the cost is pretty much the same for all the items I mentioned. Housing is much more expensive in the bay area than here in Nevada and is probably one of the most expensive places in California to buy a house.

Again, it all boils down to how one lives in both places and a lot of money can also be spent in both. Personally, I have found Thailand to be a better place to live when it comes to the cost of living.

----------


## Stumpy

> JPPR and Rickschoopers are speaking about cost of living in the San Francisco Bay area. Perhaps an unrealistic cost of living index for say someone living in Brownsville Texas?


I absolutely agree. It is quite pricey but its not just the housing, its everything. Outside of the high ticket items you pay a premium for the rest. If you are fast food eater the price of a Big Mac is the same across all the states. Fed income tax, Same. Medical insurance, Same. Fuel prices, within a few pennies. 




> Life in the USA could be nice if one were to earn $5 or $6,000 per month and live in say Arkansas.


So there is the rub Itnt. Now you are out in no man's land again living with rednecks but other than living costs everything else costs the same. Your salary, if you are lucky enough to have a job, will be peanuts and there is a good chance this job will be at a Walmart or some other retail store. My missus and I went up to Northen Calif. I wanted her to see it. we looked a few houses for sale. I could easily pay cash for a house there but do I want to live there? Naaaaah Still cannot shake the general living costs, property tax, fed tax, state and local tax, gas costs, consumerism, etc etc.         

I think Rickchoppers and others have said that you make it what it is. I agree. While I really enjoy and like Thailand I am not sure I can be there full time, we will see. My view on this has changed after meeting my GF. She is a cool gal. Anyway you make a choice where to live and clearly some set of circumstances drives you to that decision. Each of us on TD is driven by different desires, wants and needs. There is no way we will all agree. We are debating in futility. While healthy to a great degree no ones life is the same. My life's circumstances are different then others. I am 53. I semi retired late 40's. My children are grown, I am not having anymore. I want to travel. Live where costs are low, I lived in Thailand for 5+ years and find it comfortable. I can have some livestock, eat good food, Cost of living is low, no Fed tax, no state tax, no property tax etc etc. I will trade stock to keep a bit busy. I only came back to the US to sell my house as the market is perfect. I do not want to own a home here. I will rent if I return for extended periods of time.

----------


## Camel Toe

> Originally Posted by Camel Toe
> 
> 
> But everything in Thailand is cheap because it should be.  Transportation?  That's a laugh.  What are you chances of dying on the highway with some yaba head at the wheel?  How about barking and shitting dogs in the best of neighborhoods.  Nothing lends itself more to ghetto living than those fookin dogs!  Call "911" and the cops will want to charge you for gasoline before they come.  Put your kid in a cheap school so he can learn how to be an idiot and proud of it.  Eat rice every meal like some street beggar in India.  How about a klong taxi?  Don't get any water on yourself .. people have died from it.
> 
> 
> So they drive by all the rules in Mexico, do they? No dogs in Mexico because you eat them at the taco stands and the local police have your best interests at heart. How are the schools in Mexico? Mexican taxis NEVER over charge.
> 
> And the water in Mexico, oh the wonderful water. Aren't you kinda the pot calling the kettle black Camel?


That reads like it's a response to someone else's post.   Who's talking about Mexico?  The point is if it's cheap it's worthy of cheap.  You think Mexicans eat dogs?  You think they drink unpurified water?   You're a moron.

----------


## rickschoppers

^
I know dog is eaten in Mexico and that the water will tear you a new one. You don't seem to know much even though you claim to have lived there most of your life. You seemed to have belittled Thailand when you live in a very similar environment yourself.

I really don't want to get started with you again and will just put your posts on ignore.

----------


## ltnt

> Now you are out in no man's land again living with rednecks


So, that's a negative?  Rural America is far different in C.O.L. from your location in San Jose, California by your own admission.  

Cleaner, safer, lower cost housing, more friendly, no commute problems, food prices are half what they are in California's cities. You might actually know  your next door neighbors.

Taxes, medical costs, transportation costs, schools, technology access all relative.  My option wouldn't be Silicone Valley.  I think the OP moved to Chicago because it was home to him, not for cost savings.  Comfort level in his known environment.  Risk is everything to many people.

I'm certain that my life in Texas would be half the cost of your life in San Jose California JPPR?

----------


## hazz

> I honestly think I will save more money living in the USA than I did in Thailand


Paid the for the health insurance yet?  :Smile:

----------


## DrAndy

the US is probably a great place to live, as long as you have a job with health insurance

----------


## terry57

> I have found Thailand to be a better place to live when it comes to the cost of living.



Of course,  unless one is living in Inner Mongolia.

Anyone who says a first world country is cheaper than living in Thailand is taking the piss innit. 

Bit of a larf actually.

----------


## terry57

> The US is probably a great place to live, as long as you have a job with health insurance



I've traveled America and its a stunning and diverse country, I'm sure that if one was well minted one could have a cracking life there same as in Australia.

But on the other hand to make a statement that its cheaper than living in Thailand is plain bolliks. 

Of course it isn't.  A good example is the pure amount of people living on the streets surviving on piss all. 

Must be seen to be believed.

I'm sure they would have a great big laugh if someone told them there country was cheaper than Thailand.  :Smile:

----------


## Stumpy

> Cleaner, safer, lower cost housing, more friendly, no commute problems, food prices are half what they are in California's cities. You might actually know your next door neighbors.
> 
> Taxes, medical costs, transportation costs, schools, technology access all relative. My option wouldn't be Silicone Valley. I think the OP moved to Chicago because it was home to him, not for cost savings. Comfort level in his known environment. Risk is everything to many people.
> 
> I'm certain that my life in Texas would be half the cost of your life in San Jose California JPPR?


I have a direct example of the point I am trying to make and one that is quite common.

A long time colleague and friend moved to Arizona, just outside Phoenix as he felt California was to expensive to live, the schools were not very good etc etc. He has been there about a year now. He left a low 6 fig job and took a job making about roughly 65% that. He sold his home here in San Jose($575k). Bought a 750 sq ft larger house for $310K. He thought like many do that you can escape it by moving away. You simply cannot. The math is the math. Sure his house cost was nearly half but his salary is nearly half. It is all relative as you noted. But my point being is food, utilities, medical, gas, cars, auto insurance, homeowners insurance, entertainment, movie costs, traveling etc stay the same so in a way his disposable income is actually less in many regards. He even said he has less money then he did while in California and is working more. He said his electric bill doubled from living in San Jose. His fuel costs have risen significantly as he has drive a lot further to get to work, to get the things he needs and his wife driving the kids back and forth to school. He says during summer it is to damn hot to even go outside to do anything so he is now trapped in the house more. So his idea that his income would improve and his quality of life get better, it really has not. 

Its funny in a way, people struggle to live in the US and it really does not matter what state. It is all relative. Now if one could sell their California home at a nice profit, buy a house for half elsewhere USA, keep their 6 fig salary and have all their living costs drop by half then it would be golden but that is simply not going to happen. A loaf of bread in California is the same price in Arizona, NY, Wyoming, Nebraska, Florida. It is what it is. I have never gone to another state and found Milk at $1.00 per gallon while in California it is $3.50 or Gas at $2.25 a gal while it is $4.50 in California.

This is good debate and one for which I feel there is no suitable answer. As I said I left the US originally for work then found I was comfortable in Thailand. Not that is was better, just more comfortable. While I could easily live in America there a couple of things that would have to happen the biggest of those being I would have to work until I basically died. In Thailand that is not the case. Sure there are many things I "give up" leaving the US but in the end my personal freedom has a far greater value to me then working 8-5, M-F and cramming life into a weekend and watch my life blaze by me. Then sadly at the end all my hard earned money goes to doctors to keep me alive. For some that might work, others simply do not know any better as they are programmed. When I decided to retire and exit the US I had no intentions of having children, buying a house, starting a business, hanging in bars etc etc. I just wanted to relax, travel, see things, meet people and have my money work for me. That can happen in Thailand *IF* you manage it accordingly. But you have to be ready to let go of things and be opened minded. I have never encountered the horror stories some post on this site. I have had a few light encounters with the traffic police but no different then here. I think in many respects some people are prone to having trouble follow them. Some of their posts support that. You reap what you sow. 

I wish Livinginlos the best. He did what he felt was the very best for his family and he will most certainly have to readjust to living back here no matter what city USA. Bills will stack up, its the nature of the beast and the price you pay; Good or Bad.

----------


## Kaku

California is one of the highest cost of living states in the U.S.A. I live in Texas. My home (paid for) would sell for 1.5 to 2 million in California. It has over 3500 sq ft with 5 bedrooms and 4 baths. My monthly cost of living, which includes private health insurance is about $3,500/mo. For this I get a beautiful planned community with over 100 miles of well maintained paved walking paths, pristine public parks, well stocked public libraries, large churches with scads of free social activities and a host of other amenities. 

In Thailand I can live on less and definately feel less pressure to conform to the habits of others. Unfortunately, if I want an equivalent lifestyle to that which I enjoy in the U.S. it's going to cost me as much or more than I'm spending now assuming I could find it at all. 

When making decisions be sure to compare apples to apples.

----------


## Camel Toe

I lived in Santa Cruz years ago, about 20.  At the time the average house was over a million.  And as averages go you must consider all those little weather-beaten one-bedroom bungalows that pepper the city, plus The Flats, there by The Boardwalk, where the Meskins and crack dealers all live.   But still not as expensive as Palo Alto.  That's where prices will bring you to your knees.  Yes, Californians are house poor.  I was working there in Palo Alto @ $190 a day after taxes and it wasn't enough to warrant staying around.  I also lived in Denton Texas, near Dallas/Ft Worth.  The house I rented finally sold for 130,000, three bedrooms, 1/4 acre with all mod cons and nine-foot deep swimming pool, a nice neighborhood a mile from the state university.

----------


## fishlocker

> ChiTown is a dangerous place to live.  Make sure your kids are cautious when hanging out with the African-americans.  Their murder rate is extremely high when compared to the Thais.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> RickThai


I said visit china town it safe, so is the museum of science and industry as well as the aquarium. Navy pier is also worth a visit. The lake front is fantastic if you like fresh water. I go salmon fishing with a small rig and 10 to 20lbs is the norm.King salmon have been caught up to 65lbs. A blast with rod and reel.I prefer Pen and Daiwa Reels,they really take a beating.Pen downriggers as well.Boring and predictable is in what you plan.PS i will never hire a driver or ride a bus on HWY 13 in Laos again. Saw a pickup truck hit an ox. My driver barely slowed down to avoid the truck or ox.Total madness. Never again.Life is too short, enjoy the ride.

----------


## ltnt

> This is good debate and one for which I feel there is no suitable answer.


Actually there are many suitable answers or replies to be found here on T.D. if one wishes to be honest and open to other peoples actual experiences and personal knowledge.

JPPR I find your reports or replies conflict with many of your previous postings on T.D.?  If I were you I would re-read those and get the stories to agree with each other.




> When making decisions be sure to compare apples to apples. Kaku is offline Add to Kaku's Reputation Report Post   	 Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!


Actual real life situation JPPR.  I think Kaku has got it right.




> I lived in Santa Cruz years ago,


Home of the "Banana Slugs."  Best breakfast restaurant in the bay area, ZAKS." Monarch butterfly capitol of the world.  Lived in Big Redwood Park for over three years and 10 years in Los Gatos.  Not a bad place at all.



> I said visit china town it safe, so is the museum of science and industry as well as the aquarium.

----------


## 9999

Moving back to Australia to educate the kid(s) is a no brainer. Not sure if I could say the same for the US though.

----------


## Camel Toe

There are plenty of good schools in America, charter schools.  The problem now is layoffs and growing class sizes.  The neighborhood means everything.  I worked in a grammar school on the Stanford campus, a public school in fact.  Every student had his own Mac laptop, paper was seldom used except for art.  Kinda deluxe for a public school.  Poor neighborhoods or cities usually have poor schools, logically.  When teachers get dissed all day long they move on or spend too much class time on crowd control

----------


## sabang

> The neighborhood means everything.


Absolutely. Somewhere along the line the US lost it's noble concept of equal opportunity for all, and decided children (tomorrows adults & voters) were only entitled to such government services as education according to how much tax their parents paid. As a result, now a po' boy born in Europe or Australia has a larger chance of making the big time than one born in the land of opportunity. It was a policy, not an accident.

----------


## 9999

I was talking about the world class Australian public school system  :Smile: 

Screw paying for education when it's free and better than what money can buy in Thailand.

So there are quality public schools in hte US?

----------


## sabang

Yes, in affluent areas.

----------


## rickschoppers

As long as we are talking about who has the better education system:

*Two Opposite Education Systems Ranked on Top*

*By  JOYCE LAU*

*Published: December 1, 2012*

 Finland and South Korea, two countries that are almost as far apart in  teaching styles as they are geographically, topped a new ranking  published last week by Pearson and the Economist Intelligence Unit.         
 The Global Index of Cognitive Skills and Educational Attainment, which  ranks nations based on a combination of international test scores,  literacy and graduation rates, put Finland and South Korea alone in the  top category.        
 It is hard to find two education systems more different, the report  said. South Korea emphasizes exams, rote learning, discipline and long  hours for students, most of whom also attend private cram schools.  Finland has short school days, little homework and a focus on helping  children understand and apply knowledge, not merely repeat it, the  report said.        
 Also in the top 10 were Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, the United Kingdom,  the Netherlands, New Zealand, Switzerland and Canada. Ireland came in  at No. 11, Australia at No. 13, Germany at No. 15, the United States at  No. 17, Russia at No. 20 and France at No. 25. China and India, Asias  developing giants, were not ranked. Brazil and Indonesia came in at the  bottom of the listing of 40 states and nations. _  JOYCE LAU_

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## ltnt

> I worked in a grammar school on the Stanford campus, a public school in fact.


Sounds like Harker Academy?

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## sranchito

> Yes, in affluent areas.


Apparently, you haven't looked at who is in the White House?

Why are there some children getting better education than others?  Because their parents WORK.

You know why some children have substandard educations?  Crack whores, drug dealers, debt beat fathers.  The list goes on and on.  Do I feel for the little bastards?  Sure. 

Bottom line is, their parents don't work.  They don't want to work.  Have another crack baby and we'll give you more welfare money.  They wait for the gov. checks to buy more drugs.  Have you ever been to Detroit, Chicago, LA?

The founding fathers of the US didn't come here looking for a hand up.  They worked for what they got.  Now there are some that want to take from those that have and give to those that don't.  Guess they are waiting on those obama bucks.  I'll never forget an interview with a woman during bho's first pres campaign.  She was all excited,  she'd get a free house, free car, free phone.  Yep, those are the kinds of folks I want to give my money to.  Should be a very prudent investment.

Can't help those that don't help themselves.  Just a fact of life.

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## sranchito

Almost forgot this factoid.

U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC

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## Cujo

> Originally Posted by sabang
> 
> 
> Yes, in affluent areas.
> 
> 
> Apparently, you haven't looked at who is in the White House?
> 
> Why are there some children getting better education than others?  Because their parents WORK.
> ...


You are truly thick.
The KIDS are the unfortunate victims and education is about helping the KIDS who have no choice in the matter of where they are born and to whom.
The way to break that cycle is EDUCATION for the KIDS.

----------


## Camel Toe

> Originally Posted by Camel Toe
> 
> I worked in a grammar school on the Stanford campus, a public school in fact.
> 
> 
> Sounds like Harker Academy?


I think you mean the Harker (Prep) School.  It's private.  Stanford has one too, it's private.   And there's Poly Hi, it's a public prep school.  Mine was Escondido, it's a total immersion grammar school.

----------


## sranchito

> Originally Posted by sranchito
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by sabang
> ...


the key would be to take the kids away from the dumb ass parents.  Similar to what they did in the past in OZ.  Don't care how much money you throw at it, the kids ain't gonna learn if the parents don't parent.  We already spend more than anyone else per kid.  Working great ain't it.

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## ltnt

> Don't care how much money you throw at it, the kids ain't gonna learn if the parents don't parent.


My parents didn't "parent."  All three of us children attended University, got degrees, moved into private business and were successful in our chosen fields.

In my experience, Parents aren't all that necessary.  Personal "will," is more key than parents imo.  Must be nice to have parents who "parent," but then what is that?

----------


## 9999

> You know why some children have substandard educations? Crack whores, drug dealers, debt beat fathers. The list goes on and on.


I don't get it. The schools are bad in these areas coz the crack heads and dead beats built shotty building?

Public education varies across the USA according to the affluence of the area? no one is pissed off about this?

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## Davis Knowlton

> Public education varies across the USA according to the affluence of the area? no one is pissed off about this?


Schools are paid for by local taxes and some subsidies from the federal government. Poor neighborhoods collect less taxes, thus have poorer schools. Poor people can only afford to live in poor neighborhoods, so their kids go to shitty schools, perpetuating the cycle of poverty.

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## Imminent

It's amazing how unhappy the posters on here are who seem to be making decent money. You guys don't seem to know poverty and how to live cheaply. I'd say most of the unhappiness many of you are expressing has more to do with something personal to you such as your experiences, attitudes and especially spending choices. Of course, the real points about education and dangers of living here or there are definitely true, but they aren't the reason for all the upset expressed here. You can debate quality as one person said comparing real equals but that is something that doesn't really involve emotion. If you can do it, why no make the change and enjoy your new home wherever it may be. Every place in the world really is a happy place for someone. 


There are people who are thinking of moving for financial reasons, others who are moving for quality issues and still others who are doing it for emotional reasons.

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## DrAndy

> When making decisions be sure to compare apples to apples.


obviously, and you cannot compare life in a developing country to your own, it doesn't make sense




> For this I get a beautiful planned community with over 100 miles of well maintained paved walking paths, pristine public parks, well stocked public libraries, large churches with scads of free social activities and a host of other amenities.


if that is what you like, then you will have to stay there

if you want a more open adventurous life, then that would not fit the bill

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## Imminent

> ^^ Bottom line for me is the USA is boring.  It's predictable.  It eats money.  Not 6 months ago I was living in Ft Worth.  Lovely condo, peaceful, no robberies, no street dogs, no sirens.  Every person in the neighborhood would walk their dog with a plastic bag and pooper-schooper in hand.  The electricity never failed.  My cell phone never dropped calls.  You could dial 911 and there'd be screeching tires in front of the house in 5 minutes.  Fookin boring!


People in the countryside here bring their motorcycles inside their homes for fear of having them stolen. The local dogs keep stealing our shoes. When it's the season, usually have 7-8 dogs gangbanging a bitch in front of our house as well.  No one cares about all the dogs running wild. Our relative's chickens shit all over our yard.As for law enforcement, the police in our area pretty much do nothing most of the time.  The electricity went out two days ago at night for 6 hours. It must have been 85 degrees that night. I have to walk out to the edge of our yard to get a good cellphone signal. What's that Thai emergency number? The local high school dropouts drink bottles of lao kao down the road every night and yell out as they race their motorcycles up and down the street. Still generally this a pretty boring place.

----------


## sabang

When America was at the zenith of it's prestige and economic power, and it's social mobility was the envy of the world, tax revenue as a percentage of national GDP was much higher than it is now. The reason is simple- corporations and wealthy individuals paid a higher share of their earnings to the state than they do now. This taxation was not a charitable contribution- it paid for the infrastructure necessary to get product to market, the education of tomorrows work force and customer base, the upholding of the law (so macca's could sue the arse off anyone daring to describe their product as a macsomething), defence, emergency services etc. Now corporations and wealthy individuals pay a lower share of their earnings as taxation towards the state than a middle class person. So what has happened has been a massive (and deliberate) wealth transfer from the state, and the services it paid for, to the already wealthy and corporations- ie wealthy private interests. Both of these are swimming in cash- while the government becomes further indebted every year. In case you hadn't noticed, the stock market is doing well, corporate profits are at an all time high, and corporations are more cashed up than ever in history. Crisis, what Crisis?

The outcomes have been quite predictable-
The Rich got richer. The rest mainly stagnated or got poorer. 30 million American workers earn less now than in 1968.
The Wealth gap is at all time highs (rivalled only by the 'robber baron' era). The US is more like a third world than first world country in this regard.
Government services such as education are underfunded- but not for the already rich or upper middle classes. They take care of their own.
Social mobility in the US has fallen behind that of 'olde world', supposedly class ridden Europe.
The government, serially underfunded, goes further into debt every year. 
This necessitates a cycle of constant belt tightening, and degrading of government services and investment for the future.

Nobody can tell me this is a sustainable or desirable economic model- it is neither. So now you have serial denial and trench mentality from the same people that lied you into this mess in the first place, as best exemplified by the GOP- which can no longer be described as anything but a lobby group for big business and the already wealthy. But who from the Democrats points out the obvious facts above, and the correlation with a massive wealth transfer away from the state, to private interests? Nobody- because if they did their corporate funding would dry up, and a co-ordinated attempt would be made to unseat them from government. You are not allowed to state the bleedin' obvious as a Congressman. Concurrent with this declining societal and economic model, money has increasingly come to dominate US politics. I wonder why?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

So the Democrats- who by now have taken over as the Establishment party from the increasingly crackpot GOP, are part of the problem too. A large part. As is the media, which has become a tool of disinformation at it's worse, or a serial neglecter of the real issues at it's best. Hey, don't worry that you're deliberately being raped- take a look at Lindsy Lohans knickers. and how 'bout them Mets.

In thirty years, the USA has gone from being in a good place, to a bad place. The reason is purely domestic- there have been no major international or geopolitical threats in that time. One Presidential administration, Bush, changed America from being the worlds largest creditor, to the worlds largest debtor. That's pretty good going in eight years.

And nobody- not the republicans, the democrats, or the mainstream media- is pointing out to you the obvious reason why. Beyond harvesting your vote for their own political ambition, the average citizen plays little part in the so called democratic process now. You the People have been systematically raped, to pay for the naked greed and lack of any form of patriotism, of a few. An already rich few, feathering their own nest. The results are there in black and white- which in modern America means, you can not see them. Or it is something else, this malaise- not the bleedin' obvious. Lets argue about the founding fathers and FDR instead.

No, the modern US is not a place I would return to. I prefer happier places with a vague sense of national direction, and a vague concept that as a society, we are all in this boat together. I prefer a place where the word 'patriotism' in political hands is not just a deliberate lie, promulgated on the ignorant masses by a few with access to all the money, and hence the corridors of power. Your democracy is failing you, as is many of your misplaced definition of what patriotism means. But that in turn exists because you have swallowed the lies and avoided the facts.

Anyway, nice knowin' ya. Notice how, all around the world, we are seeing this less now as a symbol of hope, prosperity and freedom? Actions have consequences.

----------


## misskit

^^ Sounds awful, Imminent. If you are the only one in the area who thinks those things are a nuisance, you are SOL. If you live around people who are annoyed by the same things you are, you can band together to stop many problems.

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## Hypatia

> Have you considered Bournemouth? I think you might like it.



 As far as I'm aware the UK govt has a policy of honesty and non bigotry,  as flawed as the  implementation may be, and it welcomes immigrants for their contribution of work, not cash.
 One cannot say the same for Land O Liars.

----------


## Imminent

> ^^ Sounds awful, Imminent. If you are the only one in the area who thinks those things are a nuisance, you are SOL. If you live around people who are annoyed by the same things you are, you can band together to stop many problems.



Actually I just posted it for the laugh. It is true and it's pretty much normal upcountry. It's easy living up country in the land of apathy. Thailand isn't such a bad place for taking it easy. It kind of reminds me of the lazy summers at my grandparents house on the lake in New England. Thailand can be easy living if you have a little money and that visa. The animals running around the place are annoying at times but no one else really seems to mind them much. In fact, they don't care if they live or die really. That's pretty much the attitude for life for the poor most of the time. Live for the day. Thinking about the long term picture is just depressing but taking life day by day is enjoyable.

I am also thinking about the US at the moment for a lot of the reasons others are. I get emotional about some of the problems in Thailand like most foreigners. i don't expect to see change anytime soon so it's best just to enjoy the day. My long term financial picture is quite bleak due to my choices so ideas run through my head about how I could get ahead financially as well. To be honest, I just don't see it happening even if I were to go abroad. Going to the US for me would be more about just escaping Thailand and giving a chance for my daughter to learn and use English. I also miss the ease of an English-speaking world along with the food and other stuff. Anyways, I'm not complaining about the life in LOS.

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## Butterfly

> The Rich got richer. The rest mainly stagnated or got poorer. 30 million American workers earn less now than in 1968.
> The Wealth gap is at all time highs (rivalled only by the 'robber baron' era). The US is more like a third world than first world country in this regard.
> Government services such as education are underfunded- but not for the already rich or upper middle classes. They take care of their own.
> Social mobility in the US has fallen behind that of 'olde world', supposedly class ridden Europe.
> The government, serially underfunded, goes further into debt every year.
> This necessitates a cycle of constant belt tightening, and degrading of government services and investment for the future.


very well done, sab

yes, the US on the way to become its mirror of communist failure

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## ltnt

> Poor people can only afford to live in poor neighborhoods,


You forgot, "busing." don't like your school, get bused.




> Every place in the world really is a happy place for someone.


About 2.5 million locked down in prisons across America.  A happy place, huh?

Sabang and Butters must be doing the blue Acid again.  Dreams of a failed state, communism run wild and chickens in every pot.  Oh my, the colors must be wonderful...I think you two need to stay away from the hallucinogenics and switch to some crystal meth.  The edge has worn off your lunacies.

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## Davis Knowlton

[quote=ltnt;2398356]


> Poor people can only afford to live in poor neighborhoods,


You forgot, "busing." don't like your school, get bused.


They still doing that?

----------


## Imminent

> Originally Posted by Imminent
> 
> Every place in the world really is a happy place for someone.
> 
> 
> About 2.5 million locked down in prisons across America.  A happy place, huh?
> 
> Sabang and Butters must be doing the blue Acid again.  Dreams of a failed state, communism run wild and chickens in every pot.  Oh my, the colors must be wonderful...I think you two need to stay away from the hallucinogenics and switch to some crystal meth.  The edge has worn off your lunacies.



Geez, Itnt. Are America and Thailand prisons to you? You should take that meth.

----------


## rickschoppers

_"People in the countryside here bring their motorcycles inside their  homes for fear of having them stolen. The local dogs keep stealing our  shoes. When it's the season, usually have 7-8 dogs gangbanging a bitch  in front of our house as well.  No one cares about all the dogs running  wild. Our relative's chickens shit all over our yard.As for law  enforcement, the police in our area pretty much do nothing most of the  time.  The electricity went out two days ago at night for 6 hours. It  must have been 85 degrees that night. I have to walk out to the edge of  our yard to get a good cellphone signal. What's that Thai emergency  number? The local high school dropouts drink bottles of lao kao down the  road every night and yell out as they race their motorcycles up and  down the street. Still generally this a pretty boring place."
_
This all sounds of so familiar. You must be one of my neighbors. Seriously, there are some positives of living up country as well.

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## rickschoppers

_"I am also thinking about the US at the moment for a lot of the reasons  others are. I get emotional about some of the problems in Thailand like  most foreigners. i don't expect to see change anytime soon so it's best  just to enjoy the day. My long term financial picture is quite bleak due  to my choices so ideas run through my head about how I could get ahead  financially as well. To be honest, I just don't see it happening even if  I were to go abroad. Going to the US for me would be more about just  escaping Thailand and giving a chance for my daughter to learn and use  English. I also miss the ease of an English-speaking world along with  the food and other stuff. Anyways, I'm not complaining about the life in  LOS."

_I feel very much the same as you in this regard and I am currently back in the US to see if going back to work is the answer. Right now, I am not thinking it is and may abandon the thought of looking for a job. The longer I stay, the more I see why I moved to Thailand in the first place. Living up country is not all that bad compared to the money eating environment of the US. My decision is to see how things progress the next few weeks. If the ideal opportunity does not come along, I will advertise my two bikes over the summer and if sold, bank the money and head back to Thailand. The US is a good place to live only if you have a lot of cash in hand, which most don't.

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## Imminent

It's amazing how the longer-term expats often end up returning to Thailand after a short stint living in the states. I wonder if the 'dropout' rate for Thais and other foreigners 'moving' to the US is the same?

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## misskit

I've returned twice to the States. 

The first time I returned to my old career with good pay and benefits. Returned because I thought I should, that it was the responsible thing to do. In about two months I knew it was a big mistake. Life became routine again too quickly. Sold my condo and car and left for Asia again a year later.

Second time I returned to the States I did so to tie up loose ends and help my aging parents rearrange their lives for old age. I had no intention of staying for more than two years maximum. Again in about two months I was in a panic wanting to return to Asia. I resisted the urge and stayed on the whole two years only because my parents needed there. 

There was not a day go by I didn't think about going back to my little house and my friends in Thailand. America just doesn't appeal to me any longer.

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## rickschoppers

^
Agree.

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## ltnt

> America just doesn't appeal to me any longer.


Yup! me neither, that's why I don't ever go back!

As for the "Happy Place," comment: dah! sarcasm my friend. No need for meth or meds, just a sense of humor.

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## ltnt

> They still doing that?


to tell the truth Davis, I don't know, but they were in the 90's still.  Can't see it changing under Obama now can you?

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## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> They still doing that?
> 
> 
> to tell the truth Davis, I don't know, but they were in the 90's still.  Can't see it changing under Obama now can you?


Don't know. Truth be told, I doubt I spend more than a second even thinking about that place unless I am reading the news, which is barely worth reading as all it covers is the day's utterly senseless murders.

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## ltnt

> I doubt I spend more than a second even thinking about that place unless I am reading the news, which is barely worth reading as all it covers is the day's utterly senseless murders. Davis Knowlton is offline Add to Davis Knowlton's Reputation Report Post        Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!


Hard to ignore since the worlds news media seems to cover American events disproportional to other parts of the world and world events. Sometimes I wonder if there is news worth reporting from somewhere else?  

No sleep loss on its account for sure.

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## Davis Knowlton

The news I look at on the web each morning is broken into sections. I first look at Metro Manila, then Philippines, then SEA, then World News, and finally I skim US.

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## ltnt

About the same right?

----------


## Butterfly

> I wonder if the 'dropout' rate for Thais and other foreigners 'moving' to the US is the same?


for Europeans, quite high, say 90% from my personal observation

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## sabang

Whatever you lack, it isn't found elsewhere.

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## thaistyle29

How many years did you live in thailand...and like you said you really can find good food here in the USofA for 10 dollars or less...

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## 9999

> _"People in the countryside here bring their motorcycles inside their  homes for fear of having them stolen. The local dogs keep stealing our  shoes. When it's the season, usually have 7-8 dogs gangbanging a bitch  in front of our house as well.  No one cares about all the dogs running  wild. Our relative's chickens shit all over our yard.As for law  enforcement, the police in our area pretty much do nothing most of the  time.  The electricity went out two days ago at night for 6 hours. It  must have been 85 degrees that night. I have to walk out to the edge of  our yard to get a good cellphone signal. What's that Thai emergency  number? The local high school dropouts drink bottles of lao kao down the  road every night and yell out as they race their motorcycles up and  down the street. Still generally this a pretty boring place."
> _
> This all sounds of so familiar. You must be one of my neighbors. Seriously, there are some positives of living up country as well.


Well if you choose to live in a slummy area of any country it'll be much the same.

----------


## beazalbob69

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> 
> _"People in the countryside here bring their motorcycles inside their  homes for fear of having them stolen. The local dogs keep stealing our  shoes. When it's the season, usually have 7-8 dogs gangbanging a bitch  in front of our house as well.  No one cares about all the dogs running  wild. Our relative's chickens shit all over our yard.As for law  enforcement, the police in our area pretty much do nothing most of the  time.  The electricity went out two days ago at night for 6 hours. It  must have been 85 degrees that night. I have to walk out to the edge of  our yard to get a good cellphone signal. What's that Thai emergency  number? The local high school dropouts drink bottles of lao kao down the  road every night and yell out as they race their motorcycles up and  down the street. Still generally this a pretty boring place."
> _
> This all sounds of so familiar. You must be one of my neighbors. Seriously, there are some positives of living up country as well.
> 
> 
> Well if you choose to live in a slummy area of any country it'll be much the same.


Unfortunately most of us don't have much of a choice where we end up in Thailand just follow the Wife back to Her village. Sometimes you get lucky sometimes you don't.

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## ltnt

^How's that Bob?  No choice?

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## beazalbob69

^ Wasn't speaking literally but it is what usually happens. Yeah you could always live where you want but you might end up doing it without your partner. Sometimes you have to compromise and make the best of it.

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## 9999

> Unfortunately most of us don't have much of a choice where we end up in Thailand just follow the Wife back to Her village. Sometimes you get lucky sometimes you don't.


Fair enough, but it's not really fair to use your wife's familie's slum area, and I don't mean any offence, as a representation of how Thais live.

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## sabang

If my wife came from the slums of Klong Toey then she's shit out of luck- I wouldn't live there, or in any urban ghetto. But the village is different- there is poor, even more poor, doing OK, and some even doing well. There are nice houses, tatty houses, and some hovels. To me, that isn't a slum at all. It is a village, a local community. I lived in a 'very nice' estate for a while near Pattaya- only farangs and wives lived there, it was manicured and swept, very pretty- and had absolutely no character whatsoever. Blehh- now I rent it to another farang, for 50k he gets a nice little artificial environment and can pretend he's like a rich guy in the west, safe behind his guarded compound walls- and I'm enjoying the village and laughing all the way to the bank.

Not everyone is cut out for life in the ban nok, obviously. But this thaiophile is.  :Smile:

----------


## ltnt

Bob, some times village migrants from European worlds just don't fit in.  Same as a Thai farmer in London?

Bright lights, big city is the norm for most ex-pats and the expectation by them that they would fit into a strictly uneducated farmer society in rural Thailand is possibly one of the most ignorant decisions they could make.  this includes the Thai wife who would impose such a life on a more educated worldly foreigner. 

Gavesend Davy excluded...he just wanted the Thai universe to revolve around him.  It didn't so he did the right thing, back to Blighty.  Smart move by him.

----------


## sabang

> Bright lights, big city is the norm for most ex-pats


Not this one. Na, I'll rephrase that- depends on what you're doing. When I was working, I loved the buzz of HK lived there 12 years. But for the retired life, I prefer the slower pace and nicer people of the country. Cities are OK to visit, but not too often.  :Smile:

----------


## Storekeeper

Livinios ... Best wishes for you and your family. And thanks for sharing your thoughts.

----------


## beazalbob69

> Bob, some times village migrants from European worlds just don't fit in.  Same as a Thai farmer in London?
> 
> Bright lights, big city is the norm for most ex-pats and the expectation by them that they would fit into a strictly uneducated farmer society in rural Thailand is possibly one of the most ignorant decisions they could make.  this includes the Thai wife who would impose such a life on a more educated worldly foreigner. 
> 
> Gavesend Davy excluded...he just wanted the Thai universe to revolve around him.  It didn't so he did the right thing, back to Blighty.  Smart move by him.


Definitely. I would hope that someone who enjoys city live would never move to the mooban in the 1st place. I have lived in Cities most of my life but have always been trying to get away from them. This was the 1st real chance that I have had to do it. I like it but not everyone hell not even a small % could do it nor would want to do it. I understand that. 

I have noticed the expats that I have met that live in a village (and enjoy it) all seem to have similar points of view on life in general. Don't find too many ex big city dwellers around here.

----------


## MakingALife

> When America was at the zenith of it's prestige and economic power, and it's social mobility was the envy of the world, tax revenue as a percentage of national GDP was much higher than it is now. The reason is simple- corporations and wealthy individuals paid a higher share of their earnings to the state than they do now. This taxation was not a charitable contribution- it paid for the infrastructure necessary to get product to market, the education of tomorrows work force and customer base, the upholding of the law (so macca's could sue the arse off anyone daring to describe their product as a macsomething), defence, emergency services etc. Now corporations and wealthy individuals pay a lower share of their earnings as taxation towards the state than a middle class person. So what has happened has been a massive (and deliberate) wealth transfer from the state, and the services it paid for, to the already wealthy and corporations- ie wealthy private interests. Both of these are swimming in cash- while the government becomes further indebted every year. In case you hadn't noticed, the stock market is doing well, corporate profits are at an all time high, and corporations are more cashed up than ever in history. Crisis, what Crisis?
> 
> The outcomes have been quite predictable-
> The Rich got richer. The rest mainly stagnated or got poorer. 30 million American workers earn less now than in 1968.
> The Wealth gap is at all time highs (rivalled only by the 'robber baron' era). The US is more like a third world than first world country in this regard.
> Government services such as education are underfunded- but not for the already rich or upper middle classes. They take care of their own.
> Social mobility in the US has fallen behind that of 'olde world', supposedly class ridden Europe.
> The government, serially underfunded, goes further into debt every year. 
> This necessitates a cycle of constant belt tightening, and degrading of government services and investment for the future.
> ...


Sabang...   Nice set of good general observations that underpin some of the significant forces behind the trend changes that have reshaped what life in America entails.   Indeed you have hit many high points.   There has been a wealth transfer of isn't obvious unless one looks as deep as you have.   

Much of the 2008 fiscal crisis - despite being the bursting of a bubble formed in the property markets as well as a generalized laisse fair attitude and elimination of key regulations that have allowed Banksters to risk the financial system by securitization of debt held and moving it off their balance sheets - sold for consumption to investors world wide...   The bailouts - while they have shored up the financial system to a point of survival and building recovery -  Have also  struck a bad chord in the minds of those with significant private assets - that the playing field is far from level, and the privileged - too big to fail community of entities get a royal roadway to play on.   While the owners of private wealth get their holdings risked because of they are tied to the same financial system.    So there is a break in trust between many in America with assets and those in both the financial and government sectors.  Most do not want to go down amid the "slaughter of innocents" which is characteristic reshuffle that happens when financial systems collapse.  The outcome of this level of distrust has yet to manifest itself in social changes, but those approaching retirement years are beginning to look at alternatives and life style changes to hedge these kind of risks that are still present in the current fiscal system.  So it is quite possible that the life in the US will adjust significantly to the collective choices that those with private assets may make - instead of idle and remaining a part of the status quo.....

I relocated here to TL - amid the rapid days of uncertainty for the US system in October / November 2008.  

Now,  I have a thai wife and a 3 1/2 year old and what amounts to 5 years of good diverse LOS experience.  My daughter will be in traditional school in about 1.5 years and upon looking into education system here - It has proved to be very scary and eye opening for me.   So the current consideration on my agenda is a repatriation back to the US in the next year - for that reason.   I have dealt with enough Thais across many spectrums to recognize - that while they all have some good life skills, most I have run across are not educated sufficiently for any solid working world positions where significant problem solving or innovation are required.    They miss that boat badly.    So my thai wife and I are wrestling with the idea of a 15 year relocation to the US. My daughter is pretty far ahead of the curve, when compared to peers in her pre-school.  Being farang looking (with asian eyes) her road through the education system here would be bumpy at best.  As she moved up in grades towards puberty I can see where her female peers would be resentful of her ligher skin and her foreign features, they would be jealous of those things...  In addition to the bias that other kids would hold towards that advantage that a thai-farang couple have in terms of material things.   These things weigh into the decision having been her long enough to sense these bias exist.

One has not choice but to play the cards in ones hand - for best outcome.   I consider getting the best education for my daughter - as being worth what ever adjustment that may take.    I have many expat friends who have taught here approaching 7 or 8 years -  All who know my daughter have advised me to get her educated outside TL...    Without this issue to deal with -  I would be quite content to continue on the pathway here...   It is what it is.   TL with all its benefits has some limitations....  

Good post on your take on what has changed in America....

----------


## Lorenzo

There are two high costs in ther US. Property tax and medical insurance, both the result of systemic corruption and union scum extortion . X-Proprerty tax Housing is essentially an investment, 99%+ live in their homes and get a return when they sell. Food is very reasonable in US, I am talking about food you buy and cook. A 2-3 kg chicken can be had for 150 baht, $5, usually $2 a kilo. The quality of everything in The US far exceeds Thailand. Clothes are better quality and cheaper, electronics, cars, Pizza better better better. A 6 pack of beer $4 - $8 depending on quality.  Except for Bud and Miller etc, all better than Thai beer.  Wine, dirt cheap and big choice, 1.75 liter Yellow Tail from Australia $9, less than half the price in Thailand. If you buy services in the US, i.e. restaurants, bars, hotels etc. you will go broke. It is cheaper than many think if you play it right. Go out to eat in Thailand, cook for yourself in The US.

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## hearditallbefore1

could I please get a copy of the checklist? thank you. I can't pm yet as I don't have 20 posts.

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## Lorenzo

> Originally Posted by ltnt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> ...


What do you mean "that place"




> The news I look at on the web each morning is broken into sections. I first look at Metro Manila, then Philippines, then SEA, then World News, and finally I skim US.


Not to single you out but how much of your income comes from Metro Manila, Philippines, SEA, the World and finally How much from The US.  You can always turn in your US passport and live in a nippa hut.

Easy to forget who takes care of you.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Clothes are better quality and cheaper, electronics, cars, Pizza better better better.


More choice in cars, but most American cars are way behind European/Japanese models.

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## rickschoppers

_"Now,  I have a thai wife and a 3 1/2 year old and what amounts to 5  years of good diverse LOS experience.  My daughter will be in  traditional school in about 1.5 years and upon looking into education  system here - It has proved to be very scary and eye opening for me.    So the current consideration on my agenda is a repatriation back to the  US in the next year - for that reason.   I have dealt with enough Thais  across many spectrums to recognize - that while they all have some good  life skills, most I have run across are not educated sufficiently for  any solid working world positions where significant problem solving or  innovation are required.    They miss that boat badly.    So my thai  wife and I are wrestling with the idea of a 15 year relocation to the  US. My daughter is pretty far ahead of the curve, when compared to peers  in her pre-school.  Being farang looking (with asian eyes) her road  through the education system here would be bumpy at best.  As she moved  up in grades towards puberty I can see where her female peers would be  resentful of her ligher skin and her foreign features, they would be  jealous of those things...  In addition to the bias that other kids  would hold towards that advantage that a thai-farang couple have in  terms of material things.   These things weigh into the decision having  been her long enough to sense these bias exist."

_*MakingALiffe, I have similar concerns as yours since I too have a 3 year old son. My first thoughts were to be sure and have him educated in the US, but now have reconsidered. First, has your wife ever lived in America? If not, there is a good chance she will not aclimate very well to life in the US. My wife would miss her family, food, speaking with friends and everything else Thai and I think her life would not be a very happy one. The discrimination that a Thai/Anglo child will face is a concern, but children also get along with those who are a little different than them and by putting your child in a school where there are other Thai/Anglo children will dilute this difference.

My personal plan is now to have my son educated in Thailand at a school that has a higher population of mixed cultures. Whether it is European, Chinese, Japanese, I don't really care but I do feel it is important for him to be in an environment of mixed cultures. 

I am now looking into starting a Spa/Resort business in the Chiang Mai area and one of the main reasons for this is to give my son an opportunity to grow up around the hospitality business and possibly inherit a business of his own. It seems if you grow up around a particular environment, it does not take too much to use that environment as an income. If the business does not take off, no harm, no foul. I wish sometimes I had the same opportunity so that I didn't have to figure out on my own how to make a living.

The US is a good place to be educated, but I do not have the time or inclination to set up shop for another 15 years in the US. Once your child turns 18, they will have to choose which county to have residency and right now I would prefer my son to choose Thailand.
*

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## Lorenzo

^ with all this talk about how poorly educated Thais are and IMO the cultureless Thai culture why would anyone want their son to choose Thailand over The US. I regularly meet up with a few friends from grade school, friends for 50 years, I'm glad they are American and not Thai. Come to Thailand AFTER making a living not to eek out a minimalist lifestyle

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## rickschoppers

^
Being educated in America is not the platinum credit card you think it is. Yes, the quality of education is better than that in Thailand, but at what personal cost? You just need to look at the elementary school shooting to give you a hint of the type of environment a child in the US now grows up in. There are pluses and minuses to every decision and I have written down what they would be to have my son educated in America versus a private school in Thailand.

My son has numerous Thai family members that he has grown to trust and love. Unfortunately, that does not exist in the States. I have three grown children and the only one that may want to associate with my young sons is my oldest boy who has two young children of his own. His boy is 6 months older than mine, so you can guess what kind of warped conversations Americans will have with that one. Not to mention my wife having to leave her family which she relies on more than she knows.

To just say Thai schooling sucks, is not enough. Take a look at the social aspect for both my son and wife. If placed in a private Thai school, I feel my son would do well if he had other multinational children around. At least there would be no metal detectors to go through or armed guards on site. He would be able to ride in a bus without the fear of being highjacked and the overall environment would be totally different than that which exists in American schools.

So don't ask me why I would ever think of doing such a thing, ask yourself why wouldn't I?

----------


## beazalbob69

> ^
> Being educated in America is not the platinum credit card you think it is. Yes, the quality of education is better than that in Thailand, but at what personal cost? You just need to look at the elementary school shooting to give you a hint of the type of environment a child in the US now grows up in. There are pluses and minuses to every decision and I have written down what they would be to have my son educated in America versus a private school in Thailand.
> 
> My son has numerous Thai family members that he has grown to trust and love. Unfortunately, that does not exist in the States. I have three grown children and the only one that may want to associate with my young sons is my oldest boy who has two young children of his own. His boy is 6 months older than mine, so you can guess what kind of warped conversations Americans will have with that one. Not to mention my wife having to leave her family which she relies on more than she knows.
> 
> To just say Thai schooling sucks, is not enough. Take a look at the social aspect for both my son and wife. If placed in a private Thai school, I feel my son would do well if he had other multinational children around. At least there would be no metal detectors to go through or armed guards on site. He would be able to ride in a bus without the fear of being highjacked and the overall environment would be totally different than that which exists in American schools.
> 
> So don't ask me why I would ever think of doing such a thing, ask yourself why wouldn't I?


Good post Rick, People have to realize there are 2 sides to every argument. I agree with your side of the argument. There are schools in Thailand that are just as good and as bad as the USA. At least if you keep your kids in Thailand they will still be in their home Country that they are accustomed to until they can make an informed decision about where they want to be. Forcing a different culture especially the American culture on a child is not healthy IMO. 

Friends back in the US have young children at the top's of their classes that are in semi private schools and they are having the same problems as people that have their kids in semi private schools in Thailand. If your child is intelligent they will almost always have issues in school because most kids aren't intelligent so the smarter kids get bored and don't learn as fast as they are able. To add language and cultural differences to this is hard on a child.

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth anyway.

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## rickschoppers

I used to be on the other side of this debate, but for right now, what I wrote in the above post reflects my feelings. I may or may not change my mind in the future, but you are right, there are always two sides to the story.

Everyone will need to determine which side of the fence they are on and they will not be wrong as long as they believe their decision is best for their child.

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## Storekeeper

How many Thai do you know in the USA Mr Chopper? I don't know a hell of a lot but those I have met seem to be acclimating very well. There were several hundred at the Wat I went to in Auburn last weekend. Not much talk from any of them about returning to Thailand long term. I do hear talk among those I do know or have met about having a home back in Thailand to visit for 3-4 months out of a year. 

Those I do meet have jobs and enjoy being here in the PACNORWEST. Now maybe that's because Asians seem to be very welcome here. 

Truth be told you have earned the right to retire in Thailand if that's your wish. Go for it. But don't be intellectually dishonest about it. You're making the decision because it's what you want to do.

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## Storekeeper

Do you think my 100% Thai step-daughter wants to go back to Thailand? No ... absolutely not. She loves her school ... She loves her friends. And the public school she attends offers programs you can't get even at the international schools in Thailand. Like engineering specific courses.

And oh by the way ... She rides a bus to and from school every day. And she's bright and eager to go to school every day... never misses a day.

Have probably met upwards of 40 female Thai spouses between the US Navy base in Yokosuka, Japan and here in Bremerton, Wa .... Only ONE wants to go back to Thailand on a permanent basis. That's it mate. Truth be told if you brought your Thai wife to the USA you might not be able to get her to go back on a permanent basis.

Now you have me thinking about the 100 % Thai step kids I've met over the last several years who got a taste of the USA ... Other than two boys who didn't seem to be able to adjust, all of the others prefer the good ole USA way of living and every single one of them seems to be doing well in school and going on to university.

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## rickschoppers

^^
Wrong. I am not making the decision because it is what I want. I really don't care what my son decides before he reaches the age of 18 as far as a home country. It will ultimately be up to him in the end. I am currently in the States with my wife and son staying in Thailand. Why? Because of the reasons I posted previously. 

No, don't know too many Thais here in the States so no real perspective there. How many do you know, 10, 50, 100? I think your numbers are way too small to make an educated statement on whether Thais would like to return to Thailand or not.

Nice try though.

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## rickschoppers

^^
Good for her. I hope everything works out well.

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## Storekeeper

Nice try? Seems we're both guilty of the same thing I suppose. Just expressing our opinions, correct? 

But sure .... Some probably want to go back in the future ... AFTER they've worked for several years and have some money in their pockets or qualify for social security ... Or maybe have pensions they've earned.

IMHO ... As long as a Thai can get the Thai food stuffs they seem to have to have ... They are good to go wherever they end up for the most part.

One last thing and I'll let it go ... I took my Thai step-daughter back to Thailand when I retired from the Navy for many of the same reasons you expressed. And I'm big enough to admit I wasn't spot on with all of them. And I expressed some of the same misgivings about USA schools that you have ... But again, they weren't  all true. 

I have no doubt your child can get a quality education at an international school in Thailand. But a lot of smack we talk about American schools is just ... BOLLOCKS. Entertains the Brit blokes though ...  :Smile:

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## beazalbob69

It's all about the MONEY. Almost all the Thai's that I have known beck in the USA (which is quite a few) were only there for the MONEY. If they had the ability to make that kind of money back in Thailand they would move in a heartbeat. America for foreigners is always about money because that's all there is for them there.

Even the idea of moving to the USA so your kids can get a supposedly better education is ultimately about them being able to make more money in the future so it's still all about the MONEY.

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## Storekeeper

Well mate ... I was born here and I stuck with my Navy career for the pay out at the end. And I'm back working again to further top off the SS and hopefully hang around for another pension. 

In that sense I guess I'm no different from a Thai ... One day I asked myself why I was working for 28, 000 baht a month when I could be earning a hell of a lot more and in a better place with better schooling for the kid ...

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## beazalbob69

And one thing is for certain. If your kids are brought up in the USA they will be taught all about the virtues of MONEY. It is something most Americans take very, very seriously to the point of working themselves to death just to have a little more in some instances.

Most Americans get only 1 week of vacation a year and a lot can't even afford to take that instead working through it so they can get an extra weeks pay. 

My last job the most vacation time anybody could get was 2 weeks, 2 WEEKS!. I told my boss that I wanted a month off with 2 weeks unpaid and He got pissed off. He told me I could do it this time but never again, what an Asshole.

I got tired of the consumerism in the USA and I wouldn't want to force that lifestyle of virtual slavery on anybody especially my children but it does seem to be the choice of the majority of people on the planet so mabey I'm just crazy.

----------


## beazalbob69

> Well mate ... I was born here and I stuck with my Navy career for the pay out at the end. And I'm back working again to further top off the SS and hopefully hang around for another pension. 
> 
> In that sense I guess I'm no different from a Thai ... One day I asked myself why I was working for 28, 000 baht a month when I could be earning a hell of a lot more and in a better place with better schooling for the kid ...


I do understand where you are coming from. Everybody needs money. For all my anti capitalist ranting I need it too. I will most likely have to return to the US at some point to replenish the bank account unless I can find something good here. I am still too young (38) to retire and my pittance of a life savings ain't gonna go far. 

I am just tired of the excessive working and spending that everyone is taught to partake in back home. It's a system of bondage that is almost inescapable for the average American unless you want to be a beggar living on the street.

Now I think that I know how to use it to my advantage instead of being used by the system.

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## Camel Toe

> It's all about the MONEY. Almost all the Thai's that I have known beck in the USA (which is quite a few) were only there for the MONEY. If they had the ability to make that kind of money back in Thailand they would move in a heartbeat. America for foreigners is always about money because that's all there is for them there.
> 
> Even the idea of moving to the USA so your kids can get a supposedly better education is ultimately about them being able to make more money in the future so it's still all about the MONEY.


Sorry, that's ridiculous.  It does say a lot about you tho.  There are plenty of good public schools all over America but they never make the front page so in your mind they don't exist.  It's all a matter of community resources.  So someone, like you, unfortunate enough to have never left the American boring mediocrity would never know what goes on in the school I worked with, as an example.  20 Ss max per class, no exceptions.  Every kid had his own MacBook.  All homework is computerized, seldom saw any paper xcept when the art teacher showed up twice a week.   But if you're from Mississippi things are way different, Billy Bob.

Immigration:  80% of Latin Americans who come to the USA stay in the USA, eventually.  And it isn't just the money.  California alone has millions of Thais.  L.A. has a Thai Town, almost as big as China Town.  Wouldn't want to live in America myself, nor could I afford it TBH, but it sure is a popular dream destination for millions of people throughout the world.

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## Storekeeper

Hi beazel ... Either I don't know how or just can't quote for an iPad so I just write back hoping the intended person knows who my response is for ...

I'm not full on in disagreement with anything you or Rick are saying. I just disagree with some of the stuff attached to choosing Thailand over the USA is all.

IMHO a child's success in the USA is dependent a lot on the involvement of the parents. The curriculum is there to be taken advantage of if the parents stay involved. But agree or disagree all you have to do is peruse the TEFLer forum for a few years  :mid:  to realize the odds are against critical thinking skills being developed in a regular Thai school.

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## beazalbob69

> But agree or disagree all you have to do is peruse the TEFLer forum for a few years  to realize the odds are against critical thinking skills being developed in a regular Thai school.


You do have a point there Storekeeper. Parents play a huge role in the education of their children unfortunately a child spends an inordinate amount of time outside their parents influence during their schooling.

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## Camel Toe

Sorry, I don't get this.  Parents SHOULD play a huge role.  Doesn't mean they do.  And if your children don't like or respect you enough to spend time at home you've fuked up.

No way would I turn my child over to the Thai way of education.  Sure ask any Farang parent in Thailand how their mixed-race children are doing and they always exhibit the same denial .. yeah, my kid's in one of BKK's top tier institutions.  Right.  Top tier in Thailand is equal to what in the First World?  The parents believe all the propaganda, naturally they would.

----------


## beazalbob69

> Originally Posted by beazalbob69
> 
> 
> It's all about the MONEY. Almost all the Thai's that I have known beck in the USA (which is quite a few) were only there for the MONEY. If they had the ability to make that kind of money back in Thailand they would move in a heartbeat. America for foreigners is always about money because that's all there is for them there.
> 
> Even the idea of moving to the USA so your kids can get a supposedly better education is ultimately about them being able to make more money in the future so it's still all about the MONEY.
> 
> 
> Sorry, that's ridiculous.  It does say a lot about you tho.  There are plenty of good public schools all over America but they never make the front page so in your mind they don't exist.  It's all a matter of community resources.  So someone, like you, unfortunate enough to have never left the American boring mediocrity would never know what goes on in the school I worked with, as an example.  20 Ss max per class, no exceptions.  Every kid had his own MacBook.  All homework is computerized, seldom saw any paper xcept when the art teacher showed up twice a week.   But if you're from Mississippi things are way different, Billy Bob.
> ...


Camel Toe perhaps you can show me where I said there are no good public schools in the US? The children that you worked with were extremely lucky to by instructed by such openminded unbiased teachers such as yourself. Hell they even got MacBook's!!! thats wonderful. Paper we don't need no stinkin paper why learn penmanship when you can just type. "All homework was computerized" which means the kid's didn't do homework they just Googled the info and copied it onto their amazing Macbooks.

I still cant quite figure out why you believe me to be from the South not that there's anything wrong with the South. I already told you I was born and raised in Massachusetts, Fall River to be exact. 

Having lived in the Tampa Bay area of Florida for the last 10 years I have known many from Mexico, Cuba, Puerto Rico, etc. and most if not all were there for the money or because their parent's moved there for the money and they got stuck.

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## Camel Toe

> I already told you I was born and raised in Massachusetts, Fall River to be exact.


Charming place.  Mississippi is an analogy for a cultural desert.  In this case it isn't a state where you're from.  And Billie Bob is a banjo player who just doesn't get it, get it?




> I already told you


Yes I remember, it is posted somewhere on the repo and comments thread.

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## beazalbob69

> I already told you I was born and raised in Massachusetts, Fall River to be exact.
> 			
> 		
> 
> Charming place.  Mississippi is an analogy for a cultural desert.  In this case it isn't a state where you're from.  And Billie Bob is a banjo player who just doesn't get it, get it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to be honest with you Camel you were the 1st person that I remember giving a red to since I joined up with Teakdoor. I think you were only the 2nd or 3rd to give me red rep since I joined up as well and you did shoot 1st.

As far as your analogy it's moronic and coming from you it never even dawned on me that it was an attempt at an analogy. 

Whatever you don't agree with my opinion and I don't agree with yours no biggie, but why the red rep?

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## Camel Toe

> but why the red rep?


Because nasty PMs are frowned upon?

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## Stumpy

> Come to Thailand AFTER making a living not to eek out a minimalist lifestyle


Well said. IMHO foreigners making the choice to exit the US and move to Thailand(or anywhere abroad) should be there to relax and take advantage of the money conversion.




> Truth be told if you brought your Thai wife to the USA you might not be able to get her to go back on a permanent basis.


Just to offer another side of that statement. My GF(might as well be wife) actually does not like being here at all and cannot wait to get home. Her statements are; People are rude, inconsiderate, very money hungry and the children have little respect for their parents"




> It's all about the MONEY. Almost all the Thai's that I have known beck in the USA (which is quite a few) were only there for the MONEY.


Absolutely...I came back here to visit with GF initially HOWEVER once I was asked to join a start up and they tossed a nice incentive package plus a nice salary I took the bait. My GF landed a job and makes 4x what she made in Thailand with weekends off and 8 hours a day. It is all about the money and why people from every walk of life come to the US...They want to make money. I know a tremendous number of Filipinos, Vietnamese and Thai and they are here for the money. Most have places back home in their home countries and they will head back. There is this odd image about the US. People from other countries see this awesome place with access to virtually everything you could want. However what most find out quickly, while it is all here, its all expensive.




> And one thing is for certain. If your kids are brought up in the USA they will be taught all about the virtues of MONEY. It is something most Americans take very, very seriously to the point of working themselves to death just to have a little more in some instances.


Exactly why I retired at 48 and will re-retire as soon as my GF's Greencard process is complete. In the US, the MO is "work until you die" hamster wheel and is taught very early to kids and young adults.




> I am just tired of the excessive working and spending that everyone is taught to partake in back home. It's a system of bondage that is almost inescapable for the average American unless you want to be a beggar living on the street.
> 
> Now I think that I know how to use it to my advantage instead of being used by the system.


^Exactly my sentiment.

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## Camel Toe

> I am just tired of the excessive working and spending that everyone is taught to partake in back home. It's a system of bondage that is almost inescapable for the average American unless you want to be a beggar living on the street.


Dood, you have this habit of making yourself look bad.  All these observations just show where you've been, who you've known.  Of all my friends and relative in the US none of them match your stereotype.  Jeez, I think people stopped throwing money around in '96.   When times are good people loosen up.  You don't?

 As far as debt .. I for one have never "owned" a credit card, never bought anything on credit except a new Harley in 1966.  See, all the mass' you know in America are people to whom I'd never give the time of day.  Boring, mom, dad, apple pie Christians and a mixture of Portagees and other unfortunates who say, dis and dat and pull on their dicks a lot.

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## Storekeeper

^ After reading your response JPPR 2 I have just one question ... Why wait for a green card for residence in a country your GF seems to not care for?

For anybody else that cares to address the subject on working till you die ... I don't mean to cross thread but apparently there is some confusion because I keep reading about all the people drawing entitlements so you would think very few people are working ... 

Maybe we should peel back the layers of the onion and discuss just what percent of us seppos are working our fingers to the bone.

One other question... How does one work legally in the states without a green card? The only exception I can think of is somebody on a student visa who can work a handful of hours a week.

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## Storekeeper

Lord help me ... Please help me ...  ::spin:: 

Our schools teach about money? If anything our schools fail to teach enough about money, or rather fiscal responsibility. 

Look ... Fine ... You want to spend the rest of your life in Thailand or some other country. Cool ... Go for it. I can't fault you for that.

By the way ... Filipinos are a good comparison. I've worked with hundreds of them over the years and very few of them end up able to retire back to the PI. They spend a career and a life in the states raising kids and then when it comes time ... They can't leave their kids or grandkids behind.

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## beazalbob69

> As far as debt .. I for one have never "owned" a credit card, never bought anything on credit except a new Harley in 1966. See, all the mass' you know in America are people to whom I'd never give the time of day. Boring, mom, dad, apple pie Christians and a mixture of Portagees and other unfortunates who say, dis and dat and pull on their dicks a lot.


Did I mention debt? Who gives a crap about your credit habits? You wasted perfectly good money on a piece of garbage "American made" lol motorcycle that hasn't seen innovation in 50 years. Judging by some of the viewpoints you express here I doubt you would be the type of person that I would have the time of day for either.

To get back to the OP. I feel that my point of view is valid take it or leave it. Unless you are filthy rich then by all means have a blast in the wonderful consumer Mecca that is the United States. But just remember your family will be changed by what they learn there for better and for worse. It is the worse that bothers me.

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## rickschoppers

^^^
Actually, I am doing both. I draw Social Security and will be starting another job here in the US on May 6th. 

JP has been around the block and knows what he is doing. His GF has a good head on her shoulders and maybe she is just wanting another option in life. 

You don't have to love America to work there and make some money. :Smile:

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## Camel Toe

> Maybe we should peel back the layers of the onion and discuss just what percent of us seppos are working our fingers to the bone


Count me out.  But true, Americans work hard.  These days they have to.

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## Camel Toe

> lol motorcycle that hasn't seen innovation in 50 years.


I think I was in my late teens.  So sorry.

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## Storekeeper

As an "Oh by the way" ... I started a thread a while back asking the forum posters about the rules for the Thai national ID card as my step-daughter doesn't have one ...

Well, she'll get one ... Eventually ... It's not up to me ... But I'm in no hurry at all to get her back there to get it.  ::chitown::

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## Storekeeper

Come on peeps ... Think about some of the things we're writing ... How many of us built houses, bought land, bought cars/trucks and motorbikes, Big screen TVs, air cons, etc ... In Thailand? That ain't teaching our new Thai kinfolk consumerism? As if we had to teach them? Thai don't care about money?

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## Lorenzo

> ^
> Being educated in America is not the platinum credit card you think it is. Yes, the quality of education is better than that in Thailand, but at what personal cost? You just need to look at the elementary school shooting to give you a hint of the type of environment a child in the US now grows up in. There are pluses and minuses to every decision and I have written down what they would be to have my son educated in America versus a private school in Thailand.
> 
> My son has numerous Thai family members that he has grown to trust and love. Unfortunately, that does not exist in the States. I have three grown children and the only one that may want to associate with my young sons is my oldest boy who has two young children of his own. His boy is 6 months older than mine, so you can guess what kind of warped conversations Americans will have with that one. Not to mention my wife having to leave her family which she relies on more than she knows.
> 
> To just say Thai schooling sucks, is not enough. Take a look at the social aspect for both my son and wife. If placed in a private Thai school, I feel my son would do well if he had other multinational children around. At least there would be no metal detectors to go through or armed guards on site. He would be able to ride in a bus without the fear of being highjacked and the overall environment would be totally different than that which exists in American schools.
> 
> So don't ask me why I would ever think of doing such a thing, ask yourself why wouldn't I?


America is a big place, very few schools have shootings, never saw a metal detector at a school. Much more likely to get killed in Thailand by some drunk uneducated Thai. I see no personal cost as you say to children in the communities I lived in. Quite the opposit.

In answer to your question, Thailand is like a carnival, great for a laugh but don't make a life of it. A child's life will be much more limited growing up in Thailand vs USA. 

The real message of this thread think long and hard before having a second family. Just when you are free it starts again. No thanks.

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## Storekeeper

"Just when you are free it starts again"

Yep, that's what happened to me ...  :smiley laughing: 

I tried to stick with the plan anyway. Tried telling myself it wasn't my responsibility ... That a Thai education was good enough for a Thai ... Now look at me ... 

Oh well ...

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## rickschoppers

^^
Your opinion and I respect that. I just happen to disagree with it.

FYI- See below if your don't think schools use metal detectors.

*Atlanta school shooting raises doubts about metal detectors*

* Price Middle School in Atlanta has metal detectors, but a student was  shot and wounded Thursday. Districts considering these devices have to  weigh the costs and whether they belong in schools at all.
*

                                               By                                                                                      Stacy Teicher Khadaroo, Staff writer /                         February 1, 2013         
 


                                   In  this image made from video, authorities investigate the scene of a  school shooting, Thursday, in Atlanta. Price Middle School has metal  detectors but it is not clear if the shooter – a 15-year-old student  there – went through a detector before he allegedly shot and wounded a  14-year-old student in a courtyard where students were moving between  classes.
             WSB-TV/AP

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                                                                          A shooting at an Atlanta middle school Thursday has prompted questions about the effectiveness of metal detectors as a school security measure.
  
                                      In Pictures: American Gun Culture

                                                      Related stories
    
* How much do you know about the Second Amendment? A quiz.*  * Police in schools 'not the answer,' coalition says, urging broader strategy*  * Beyond gun control: Will Obama's plans make schools safer? (+video)* 





Price Middle School  has metal detectors. But it’s not clear if the shooter – a 15-year-old  student there, according to police – went through a detector Thursday.  He allegedly shot and wounded a 14-year-old student in a courtyard where  students were moving between classes, and then was disarmed by an armed  resource officer and taken into custody.
The courtyard is accessible from outside the school, but the alleged shooter had arrived at school earlier in the day, an Atlanta Public Schools spokeswoman says.
                                                     RECOMMENDED:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   How much do you know about the Second Amendment? A quiz. 

 The Sandy Hook massacre in Newtown, Conn.,  prompted an examination of school safety nationwide and calls for more  armed security in schools, and Thursday’s incident may bolster supporters of that approach.
There has not been a corresponding spike in interest in metal detectors, says Bill Bond, school safety specialist for the National Association of Secondary School Principals. When someone arrives at a school already shooting, he notes, a metal detector would make no difference.
Metal  detectors are not practical for every school, but they are appropriate  “when you have an ongoing situation with weapons coming into school,”  Mr. Bond says. Still, “they’re no more effective than the people running  them are.”
Even with good efforts by security officials, he says,  100 percent of the weapons won’t be kept out by metal detectors. “If a  student wants to beat the system, students are smart enough to know how  to beat the system and bypass that entrance with the metal detector,” he  says.
At a Friday afternoon press conference, Atlanta school and  police officials said that the weapon was a small handgun and that it  appeared at least three rounds were fired. They were investigating the  possibility that the shooter and victim may have been part of groups  that had gang affiliations.
They were also still investigating  whether the metal detectors at Price were working and what screening of  students was performed on Thursday. In general, principals set the  policy, and administrators and staff who monitor the screening process  are all trained, officials said.
Metal detectors are most common  in urban school districts. About 12 percent of high schools, 9 percent  of middle schools, and 2 percent of primary schools in the United States did random checks with metal detectors in 2009-10, according to a survey of school principals reported by the National Center for Education Statistics. Fewer than 2 percent of middle schools and 5 percent of high schools required students to pass through metal detectors daily.
School  systems considering using metal detectors have to weigh carefully both  the costs and the philosophical debates about whether metal detectors  belong in schools at all.
It’s not the metal detectors themselves, but the manpower hours that cost a lot.
Detectors can be purchased for about $5,000. But a report by the US Department of Justice in 1999 noted that New York City  had to fund 100 additional security-officer hours per week for each  school that screened for weapons with metal detectors. First-period  start times also had to be staggered over 90 minutes to accommodate the  time it took to screen the students.
Civil rights groups have raised concerns  – both before and after the Newtown incident – that an increased  reliance on armed officers, metal detectors, and other security measures  can have the unintended consequence of making students feel less safe  and welcome.
Schools are “looking more and more like prisons,”  says Jim Eichner, managing director of programs for the Advancement  Project, a civil rights organization in Washington. While metal  detectors might be appropriate for some schools, he says, “putting a lot  of metal detectors in schools sends the wrong message,” and it uses  funds that could otherwise be put toward hiring more counselors or  psychologists to help students. “Communities need to think hard about  that trade-off,” he says.
“My high school seemed like its own personal prison,” testified Edward Ward, a college student from Chicago,  at a congressional subcommittee hearing in December exploring  discipline, security, and the so-called school-to-prison pipeline.
“From  the moment we stepped through the doors in the morning, we were faced  with metal detectors, X-ray machines, and uniformed security,” Mr. Ward  said about the time he attended Orr Academy High School. “Although I was  an honor student, I felt constantly in a state of alert, afraid to make  even the smallest mistake or create a noise that could enable the  security officers to serve me with a detention.”
In some  situations metal detectors are a necessary component of security, and  when they are used well, they can prevent a significant number of  weapons from getting onto campus, Bond says.
However, there are  anecdotes of attacks with guns and knives in schools despite the  presence of metal detectors, according to the website of National School Safety and Security Services in Cleveland:
“In 2008 in Memphis,  a TV news reporter interviewed a teacher who indicated that school  officials ran students through a metal detector that they allegedly knew  was broken even after two school shooting incidents in the district,”  the website notes. Also in 2008, it says, “in Milwaukee,  a 15-year-old female student was stabbed several times in a restroom on  the same day a $50,000 metal detector debuted at the school. Officials  reportedly said that the detector was only used on tardy students that  day while staff were being trained on using the detector. It was unknown  whether the stabbing suspects had or had not been screened.”
In 2004, a student was shot and killed by a fellow student in a Washington, D.C., high school that had a metal detector, The Baltimore Sun reported.
While  metal detectors are rare in schools overall, “it’s not like you’re  either doing metal detectors or doing nothing,” says Kenneth Trump,  president of National School Safety and Security Services. “The No. 1  way we find weapons in schools is when a kid reports it to a trusted  adult.”
                                                     RECOMMENDED:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   How much do you know about the Second Amendment? A quiz. 

*Related stories*

 How much do you know about the Second Amendment? A quiz. Police in schools 'not the answer,' coalition says, urging broader strategy Beyond gun control: Will Obama's plans make schools safer? (+video)

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## Camel Toe

Cleveland, Baltimore, Chicago, NYC, Oakland, Atlanta WTF would live there?  That's not America, those are American ghettos.  If you live there get out asap.  If you don't you lose your whining rights.

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## Storekeeper

^ Rick ... Another "Oh by the way" ... If things work out we'll be moving back to Japan in July/August and my daughter will spend the last three years of high school attending a Department of Defense school on the Navy base. I will have more peace of mind this I know when it comes to the potential for shootings on the school campus ... It will not happen there.

But, I no longer believe the academics of this particular school are better than the public school she attends here in the states. Why? Because the school here has younger, fresher and more motivated teachers. Public school teachers are now under a lot more pressure for student success than federal civil service teachers.

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## Lorenzo

Your choice Rick where you raise your kids. The US is too much about kids and waste a lot of money trying to educate children as if every child was Einstein. Makes for an expensive inefficient system paid for with property tax. If it was not so expensive maybe you could manage  a few years Thai and a few Stateside avoiding this dilemma. Good luck.

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## rickschoppers

^
Thanks Lorenzo.

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## Storekeeper

> Makes for an expensive inefficient system paid for with property tax. If it was not so expensive maybe you could manage  a few years Thai and a few Stateside avoiding this dilemma. Good luck.


Good point. I was still paying property tax on my stateside abode during my 3 years in Thailand ... So another good reason to get back here and take advantage of a system already being paid into.

Good point also about the back and forth ... Few years here and a few years there ... Very glad to have got the daughter back to attend P4/P5/P6 in Thailand. She's just about the only Thai kid I've met who not only speaks her own language but reads and writes it ... And has a full grasp of the English language. I have thought about sending her back to Thailand for another year but in an international school with boarding.

I try to balance the needs of my family but as I get older it's more and more my wants and desires that come first ... And I ain't paying for a year in Thailand when what she's gonna get is as good if not better ...

There you go Rick ... Same same but different ... Up to you ... But you gonna do what you wanna do ...  :France:

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## Marmite the Dog

> Do you think my 100% Thai step-daughter wants to go back to Thailand? No ... absolutely not. She loves her school ... She loves her friends. And the public school she attends offers programs you can't get even at the international schools in Thailand. Like engineering specific courses.
> 
> And oh by the way ... She rides a bus to and from school every day. And she's bright and eager to go to school every day... never misses a day.
> 
> Have probably met upwards of 40 female Thai spouses between the US Navy base in Yokosuka, Japan and here in Bremerton, Wa .... Only ONE wants to go back to Thailand on a permanent basis. That's it mate. Truth be told if you brought your Thai wife to the USA you might not be able to get her to go back on a permanent basis.
> 
> Now you have me thinking about the 100 % Thai step kids I've met over the last several years who got a taste of the USA ... Other than two boys who didn't seem to be able to adjust, all of the others prefer the good ole USA way of living and every single one of them seems to be doing well in school and going on to university.


I have to agree with most of this.

My wife would love to live in the UK and having to live in Thailand is probably the biggest negative we have in our lives.

But, our future lies here, so we do the best we can, trying to ensure our kids get the best education possible and all the support parents can give a child.

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## Stumpy

> After reading your response JPPR 2 I have just one question ... Why wait for a green card for residence in a country your GF seems to not care for?


Fair question. We are doing it so we can travel back and forth freely. I still have full intentions of splitting time here in the US until I reach a point where I do not want to. We will definitely stay longer then 30 days and she has stated that she might take up a bit of employment if we stay longer then 3 months. Without her permanent resident greencard we will always have to apply for a tourist visa and be limited on how long we can stay. Just a convenience thing more then anything.




> One other question... How does one work legally in the states without a green card? The only exception I can think of is somebody on a student visa who can work a handful of hours a week.


You cannot work without a greencard...legally that is. If you are here as a student you cannot either. You need to apply for all the same TIN and that can be used to allow limited work HOWEVER there are constraints when here on a student Visa.




> Think about some of the things we're writing ... How many of us built houses, bought land, bought cars/trucks and motorbikes, Big screen TVs, air cons, etc ... In Thailand? That ain't teaching our new Thai kinfolk consumerism? As if we had to teach them? Thai don't care about money?


This is an interesting comment and one that probably warrants its own thread. I have always asked the question of why some foreigners build an expensive mansion in a far out area. While completely their choice and it does not effect me personally it sure does set a precedent. You know the Rich guy next to the poor people syndrome.




> America is a big place, very few schools have shootings, never saw a metal detector at a school. Much more likely to get killed in Thailand by some drunk uneducated Thai. I see no personal cost as you say to children in the communities I lived in. Quite the opposit.


I agree this country is huge and the shootings at schools is so small that it is on the noise level statistically. However when it happens it gets HUGE media press and this quickly becomes the panic that 'Every" school is a shooting zone. Both my daughters went to a public high school and there were never any metal detectors, shootings, etc. In fact there were none in this entire county. I think we(and the world) make hardcore generalizations when the media hypes it up. While sad, it is not the norm by a far stretch.




> The real message of this thread think long and hard before having a second family. Just when you are free it starts again. No thanks.


This is probably the best advice in many regards. I raised awesome daughters. They are off in college. I could never imagine starting over. Before joining TD I was a lurker on many pages, read many articles, posts, comments on and off for nearly 7 to 8 years. From these readings I clearly made the call that there will be no more children in my life. It is my time to live freely and I never wanted to have to get to the cross road some are at now on this site about being forced to exit back to their homeland due to social stress of whether or not your child will get a better education here or there. I honestly figured this would always be a deal breaker meeting a woman as most seem to want to start a family even later in life. The few Thai woman I dated I made it quite clear up front I was "Fixed" and kids are out. The gal I am with is older and did not want children.

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## Stumpy

> ^^^
> Actually, I am doing both. I draw Social Security and will be starting another job here in the US on May 6th. 
> 
> JP has been around the block and knows what he is doing. His GF has a good head on her shoulders and maybe she is just wanting another option in life. 
> 
> You don't have to love America to work there and make some money.


I am far off from SS bennies but this may be something I do also. To far off to determine. Most depends on where I am at in my life. I think you are doing it right RC. Take advantage of making some extra cash while visiting then return.

Thanks for the kind words about the missus. She sees it for what it is. And as you stated you do not have love it here to visit and make a few bucks to treat yourself to some nicer things in life. I am glad she is experiencing this. I was going to write a thread about her assessments but thought better of it primarily because its her view on it and far to general and would come under heavy scrutiny by a handful of posters. The only thing she really likes here is that you can buy something and return it for a full refund no questions asked and the Sale price adjustments where if the item goes on sale within 30 days just bring the receipt back and they will credit the difference.  :smiley laughing:  Things she does not like is virtually zero public transportation, cars only run on fuel and no LPG/CNG and lack of ATM's everywhere and that all the banks here charge fees if you use another banks ATM to get money(Learned that the hard way). She commneted that we use a lot of gas driving to our bank although I have her set up with online banking now and the "take a picture of your check" app and she is doing more on her smartphone.

We have been here for a year at the end of this month. We will return back late next year. We will probably not visit, she does not want to waste the money on airfare. Skype/FB/Messenger in her smartphone has helped out immensely with her staying in contact with her sister and friends.

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## Lorenzo

> ^^^
> Actually, I am doing both. I draw Social Security and will be starting another job here in the US on May 6th. 
> 
> JP has been around the block and knows what he is doing. His GF has a good head on her shoulders and maybe she is just wanting another option in life. 
> 
> You don't have to love America to work there and make some money.


Don't know if you are aware of this Rick but your social security will increase if you have children under 18 as defendants. Think they need to live in the states. Can increase 50% or more depending on the number of minor dependants, check it out.

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## rickschoppers

^
Thanks Lorenzo, I will. One of the reasons I have not yet put him down as a dependent is because they want to see a SS# for him, which he does not have yet. I will be working on that when I return for a visit this year. Also, for tax purposes, the tax laws state that dependents must physically live with you 6 months out of the year to be able to claim them. I have also been told this by my accountant. It doesn't sound quite right when I have been supporting my wife for the last 6+ years financially and the US government will not allow me to claim both my wife and son as dependents.

Hopefully, when I look into your statement, they will not have the same requirement.

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## DrAndy

> No way would I turn my child over to the Thai way of education. Sure ask any Farang parent in Thailand how their mixed-race children are doing and they always exhibit the same denial .. yeah, my kid's in one of BKK's top tier institutions. Right. Top tier in Thailand is equal to what in the First World? The parents believe all the propaganda, naturally they would.


You really don't know many people, do you?  and you assume all parents are the same?

strangely enough, there are some parents that can make choices based on facts, not propaganda

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## DrAndy

> My wife would love to live in the UK and having to live in Thailand is probably the biggest negative we have in our lives.


Has she been there?  or is it based on hearsay?

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## rickschoppers

After being back in the States a few months, one of my biggest pet peeves is the amount of commercials shown on network TV here. It has gotten a lot worse since I left in 2009. 

Time to DVR everything and fast forward thru the propaganda.

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## Stumpy

> After being back in the States a few months, one of my biggest pet peeves is the amount of commercials shown on network TV here. It has gotten a lot worse since I left in 2009. 
> 
> Time to DVR everything and fast forward thru the propaganda.


 :smiley laughing:  Welcome back RC. You enjoying all the med commercials?

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## rickschoppers

^
A lot of lawyer commercials over here.

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## Stumpy

^ Oh yeah those too. In fact lots of lawyers for wrongful medical implants and accidents. Great stuff. 

My irritation is trying to relax and watch the Giants or Warriors and every other commercial is for Cialis or Viagra. Lots of erectile issues here it seems. Was fun explaining those to the missus. She had this perplexed look on her face...

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## Storekeeper

Went to a drive in theater today for the first time in over years. I think it was more fun when I was younger.

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## ltnt

> Went to a drive in theater today for the first time in over years.


Now tell us how many years since you've gone to a drive in theater?  How about a drive-in restaurant?  Drive thru car wash?  Drive thru banking?

Last drive-in I went to was in 1967, James Bond movie as I recall.

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## armstrong

those are real!?

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## MrG

> ^ Oh yeah those too. In fact lots of lawyers for wrongful medical implants and accidents. Great stuff. 
> 
> My irritation is trying to relax and watch the Giants or Warriors and every other commercial is for Cialis or Viagra. Lots of erectile issues here it seems. Was fun explaining those to the missus. She had this perplexed look on her face...


As long as this has drifted into lawyers and viagra...does anybody know why lawyers don't use Viagra?

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## DrAndy

> Was fun explaining those to the missus. She had this perplexed look on her face...


why do they want a stiff cock?

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## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
>  Was fun explaining those to the missus. She had this perplexed look on her face...
> 
> 
> why do they want a stiff cock?


Actually Dr Drivel it is more about the constant bombardment on TV that it appears so many men need meds to make their junk work.

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## sabang

Well seriously, I gotta say- the US has got lots of advertising, shitloads. Even those pay the Reverend programs have got advertising, and sponsors.

I enjoy Thai adverts, just looking at the cute babes and not knowing what they're on about is a blessing really. And whatever it is they're advertising, they hold it up just the same

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## MrG

> As long as this has drifted into lawyers and viagra...does anybody know why lawyers don't use Viagra?


Alright, if nobody is going to take the bait, I can't stand it any longer.

Why don't lawyers use Viagra...? 
It just makes them taller.

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## Cujo

> Originally Posted by MrG
> 
> As long as this has drifted into lawyers and viagra...does anybody know why lawyers don't use Viagra?
> 
> 
> Alright, if nobody is going to take the bait, I can't stand it any longer.
> 
> Why don't lawyers use Viagra...? 
> It just makes them taller.


It just makes them bigger pricks.

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## Storekeeper

> Originally Posted by Storekeeper
> 
> Went to a drive in theater today for the first time in over years.
> 
> 
> Now tell us how many years since you've gone to a drive in theater?  How about a drive-in restaurant?  Drive thru car wash?  Drive thru banking?
> 
> Last drive-in I went to was in 1967, James Bond movie as I recall.


Sorry about that. Grew up with one back in Wooster, Ohio as well as drive in restaurants back in the 70s... there is drive in theater at Oak Harbor, Washington I used to go to in the 80s ... and there is one in Pearl Ridge area of Oahu that my boys and I went to often in the 90s ... so up until last night it had been over 20 years and saw Oblivion. Drive through car wash a couple weekends ago ...  :Sorry1:

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## rickschoppers

They used to call drive-in theaters "passion pits" for a reason. I banged a lot of high school pussy and got to watch a movie at the same time. :Smile:

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