#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > The Family Room >  >  Educational options for children in Thailand

## chitown

Would you go with a bilingual school, an international school or a Thai school?

What international school is the best in Thailand? In Bangkok?

What is the worst?

Where do you send your kids? 

What is the average tuition cost?

Does anyone home school their kids? 

What are you thoughts on home schooling - bad or good? I know in the US people say it is bad because the children miss out on the social aspect of being in school with other kids. But really, do you want your child socializing with some of these thicko kids in Thailand?

TIA

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## aging one

Chi, mine go to a government EP school. They study Literature, Algebra, Science and IT in English. The textbooks are great, McGraw Hill out of the USA.  The other courses are in Thai. Its about 80% of what I would like. They are home schooled by me in US History, World History, and Geography.  Its not an ideal situation but its good enough for now.  At the end of M3 I will take them home though. So two more years.

I can afford a top notch international school, but dont feel its worth it. I would rather save that money and use it for a down on a nice house in a nice school district back home. With twins the costs can be quite impressive.

I would send them to Harrow over ISB which I personally think are the two best international school here.

It costs about 60,000 baht a year per kid, plus about 8,000 for the books a year, as we buy new and keep them at the end.

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## chitown

It seems ISB and Harrow are both 600,000 plus baht a year.

http://www.harrowschool.ac.th/sites/...02009-2010.pdf

http://www.isb.ac.th/Tuition_Fees/default.aspx

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## aging one

Harrow when you add in the uniforms, meals, after school classes that are mandatory, and sport you are up over 700,000 for an 8th grader.

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## jandajoy

Home schooling is a hell of a commitment.

The socializing aspect can be balanced with extra curricular activities.

The pressure on the parent/s however is extreme.

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## aging one

JJ those subjects are not taught in Thai schools, only Thai history. Its fun to learn and with a good book easy. All is use is a globe, maps and topo maps to teach geography which they love.

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## jandajoy

> JJ those subjects are not taught in Thai schools, only Thai history. Its fun to learn and with a good book easy. All is use is a globe, maps and topo maps to teach geography which they love.


Fully understand that AO.

I was talking about full on Home schooling, as in parents attempting to cover a whole curriculum at home.

What you're doing is admirable. I wish more parents would do the same.

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## Dilbert

aging one, I am not familiar with the term "government EP school".  Can you explain?  I have a daughter in K3 now.

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## jandajoy

> All is use is a globe, maps and topo maps to teach geography which they love.


And Google Earth ?

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## madjbs

ISB and NIST are the best international schools.

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## aging one

> aging one, I am not familiar with the term "government EP school". Can you explain? I have a daughter in K3 now.


Dilbert once you get to Matayom you choose if you want your kid in government or Rattaban school, or a private one. Government tend to be cheaper and with more rules, but in my case better on the Thai and EP side. EP is simply an English Program as I posted they take Algebra, Science, Literature, and IT from native speaker teachers. The rest of the subjects are in Thai.  

Silly rules like goofy uniforms and short hair cuts for both boys and girls. Luckily this year my kids got a waiver and dont have to cut their hair, but must pull it back with a bow in the school colors.

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## MikeyIdea

I posted this at another forum that we don't mention by name, enjoy or hate 

Education  That's a subject I have been passionately interested in all my adult life and even more so after I settled down in Thailand in the early 90'. 

Discussion subject is: Thailand is a bit different, how to best combine schools, teaching techniques, culture and tradition to provide the best possible education and future for our kids. 
And possitive and negative effects with the different education systems. Anyone want to discuss? 

How not to do it the Thai way
Better off Thais I know tend to decide school based on reputation and name, then try to deal with the travelling time. It is not unusual to see 5 year olds being dragged out-of-bed before 5:30 in the morning. I recommend the other way around. Find all decent schools within reasonable distance from home, then decide for one as close as possible. All my Thai friends know about the importance of sleep but are bad at enforcing it; their kids are all around 10% below what western child psychiatrists recommend. I have occasionally asked them Why? And although I most of the time don't get an answer, the answer is clear: In their view the difference is not big enough to matter. Some argue; We must wake him up at 5:30 if we live here and he goes to the Satit school there, not home until 5:30 because of the traffic, then there's 1.5 hours homework (in K3) every day To innocently ask Why didn't you choose a closer (non-Satit) school is like blasphemy for the parents. Common language in my home is Thai, I speak Thai with my wife and my daughter (well, spoke anyway), and I speak Thai at work below manager level so I have plenty of Thai friends to base my opinion on. Here's one truth to consider: Westerners asking Thais for advice regarding education is also getting Thai values in the answer. 

How not to do it My way
Common language in my home is Thai so I only spoke Thai with my daughter for the first 2.5 years. Don't do that  

Thai education overview
Thai education value academic knowledge Thai parents value academic knowledge... All private kindergartens I know and have heard of have the goal that the kids should be able to read and write 2 languages by the time they do the entrance exam to first grade. Including the supposedly partly Montessori school I send my daughter to. Why not? If they can't do that, then they won't pass the Satit entrance exam And if the school management and the teachers are smart enough to know that it is not really good for the kids, then they are surely also smart enough not to say anything, if they want Thai parents to send their kids to their school My daughter is 4 years and 10 months old and she has 7 to 10 home work assignments per week. I asked the Thai teacher why and as an answer to that question she replied that the (Thai) parents come to her and request more home work 

All adult Thais are good at remembering but many are less good at other brain activities like problem solving and logical thinking. Being actively involved in my daughters education (and others), it all falls nicely in place. Yes, that's surely enforced by the Thai educational system. Here are a couple of more things to consider;

The first years are the most important ones for kids, that is where the foundation for the rest of their lives is laid (not only the rest of their education) 
There is no such thing as "secondary school matters more". If anything, then it should be elementary school matters more because kids attitudes and learning styles are formed there and it's very hard to change what already has become a habit 
It's better to be the oldest than the youngest in the class; A year of development matters a lot at young age. Don't fall for starting early unless you absolutely have to
Homework in Thailand is generally get it today and finish it by tomorrow
Too much homework is going to be the norm  As parent, learn to accept no time to finish it all, better do what we can and do it well
How many languages can a young kid learn at the same time? 4 easily so don't worry. 
Problem solving is very important in Thailand. They have so many problems No, not because of that but because the Thai educational system and the Thais don't put any emphasis (what-so-ever) on encouraging problem solving and people generally get pretty bad at it graduating from an environment like that. My daughter has a subject called problem solving and I asked about it at school one day. Funny farang, I was the first one ever asking about it Clearly a DIY subject 

There are 4 types of schools in Thailand;

International: 
There are too many now a days and that a school has the title "international" doesn't necessarily mean that it is good any longer. Cost 300,000 to 500,000 bath per child and year. Beware of the extras, e.g., Thai and many other things are not included in the base price. For me, international school is not an option economically, I can't afford it, but even if I could, I still wouldn't send my daughter to one. She would grow up not really being Thai and I don't think that's going to be easy for her. She would miss part of the good of being Thai and living in Thailand. If a child is most likely going to grow up and have a future in Thailand, then I don't recommend both primary and secondary education in an International school. You decide what the most suitable combination for your child is. A few other observations; 

British curriculum is still hot; many international schools (using British curriculum) seem to have a surprising amount of information about Native American Indians and Abraham Lincoln in them though. It's like American school books are cheaper to buy or something. 

Why do so many kids from international schools behave like they own the world? Why are they so loud? Why are they somewhat impolite? This applies more to Thai children than westerners but like it or not, it applies to some extent to western kids too. Or have I been in Thailand for too long maybe? 

Bilingual school:
Best of 2 worlds IMO and FMS (for my situation) Still Thai and also influenced by western thinking and values. I think I'm lucky, I have a good bilingual school only 2.3 km from home. It's 65,000 per child per year for Kindergarten and 110,000 for Grade 1. That is for 2 semesters. Add 25% for extras, 60% if the kid is to join 3rd semester Mar to May. The 2 international schools close charge closer to half a million bath per year. A couple of things to consider for bilingual schools;

Teachers need to be checked, all Bilingual schools are not using good native speaking teachers. 
A bilingual school will not make you bad in both languages. Who was the "ixxxt" that wrote that?
Most/All (All that I know of) are using the Thai semesters 
A bilingual education is worth its weight in gold. Some could argue that gold is cheap in Thailand so the value of Thai language may not be worth it but it's not only that. It's widening horizons, it's culture and tradition that is very good to have learnt, it's Asia is the future and America is the past economically, regardless of if we like it or not
There are more of them around than we think
There are also many Thai Catholic schools around. I just found out about another one close to the intersection between Ratchada  Latprao only the other day. They generally don't push religion and education is good. They are also cheap. Good value for money. 

"Satit" government schools
Satit Chula is probably good but the others I am not so sure. All rich Thai's try to get their kids into Satit schools. No Thai would question if a Satit school is good or not, that would be like question the king... They are government schools, entrance exams are academic and difficult, tea money certainly helps. I had a Thai friend who said that they paid 600,000 bath under the table to get their son in and that was in the mid-90s (I've heard it's much cheaper now but not sure about the going rate). But once they are in, then it is dirt cheap. 

Kindergarten pushing academic knowledge is a necessity; the kid will be too far behind when it comes to knowledge otherwise
Must be able to read and write 2 languages to pass entrance exam to grade 1 (Thai and English)
50 students in each class with a primary teacher and one or 2 help teachers (Satit Prasarnmit)
Academic knowledge pushed, good memory more important than creativity and imagination 
More than 80% of the students cheat on the exams and the teachers know it and ignore it (first hand information!) 
It's important to be careful discussing how "good" Satit schools are; chances are that your Thai managers and supervisors went to one and that their kids go to one
Lot's of homework, get today, ready tomorrow, memorise, memorise, memorise
The myth about going to one to get connections doesn't hold, most connections are done at university anyway
Not a bad idea to go to a Satit school if you plan to go to Thammasart University later in life, teaching methods match
Competiveness among fellow students is surprisingly hard - and unfair

Other private Thai schools
See "Satit" (more or less)

Other government schools
Some are actually good, most of them not that good though 
Unlikely to foster aggressive American style competiveness
Excessive spirit and positiveness likely to be pushed down 

All the Best
Michael

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## kingwilly

Great first post ! 




> How not to do it… the Thai way
> Better off Thais I know tend to decide school based on reputation and name, *then try to deal with the travelling time*.



Yup. My advice too, choose a school close to you. 
A second rate school close to home is MUCH better than a first rate school miles and miles away. 




> How not to do it… My way
> Common language in my home is Thai so I only spoke Thai with my daughter for the first 2.5 years. Don't do that…


There is a wealth of evidence to support this. Speak both languages at home, it does not matter if the child takes a little bit longer to learn to speak (they are learning too languages at once after all. Later in life they will learn both languages faster then. Its about the foundation. 

Also a big one, is each parent must speak one language only to the child. Thai parent speak thai, the other parent speak the other language, do not mix and match otherwise the child will struggle to know which words and sounds belong to which language.  




> The first years are the most important ones for kids, that is where the foundation for the rest of their lives is laid (not only the rest of their education) 
> There is no such thing as "secondary school matters more". If anything, then it should be elementary school matters more because kids attitudes and learning styles are formed there and it's very hard to change what already has become a habit


TOTALLY AGREE.

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## MikeyIdea

Would you go with a bilingual school, an international school or a Thai school?
Mikey - Bilingual, best of 2 worlds IMO

What international school is the best in Thailand? In Bangkok?
Mikey - Bangkok Patana - has been known to be the best school in Thailand for at least 20 years straight

What is the worst? 
Mikey - Don't know

Where do you send your kids? 
Mikey - Pranuntanit now, BBS (Bangkok Bilingal School) next year

What is the average tuition cost? 
Mikey - 45,000 per term now, 65,000 next year

Does anyone home school their kids? 
Mikey - Never

What are you thoughts on home schooling - bad or good? I know in the US people say it is bad because the children miss out on the social aspect of being in school with other kids. But really, do you want your child socializing with some of these thicko kids in Thailand?
Mikey - IMO, Bad Idea. And not all Thai kids fall into the category thicko kids that you describe, some of them are smarter than both your and my kids 

I don't think that anyone (non-Thai that is) question that Thailand has an educational problem, the problem is that this educational problem has its roots in the Thai culture. And I don't want to change that, where would I move if all Thai's become like Germans or Americans?  

I have 3 goals; 1) I want my daughter to have a happy childhood filled with laughter 2) I want my daughter to be well prepared for what will be required of her as an adult 3) I want her to understand when it is time to just feel satisfied

Unfortunately, the world gets more and more competitive. America is leading the development and also the consumption of anti-depressants. How do I prepare my daughter for what is to come? Is a good education academically going to be enough? Certainly not

A toddler today will finish university in 20 years time, she will then work for 40 years after that. Half way down this toddlers working life, that's 40 (forty) years from now by the way, China will be the world leader economically, India will be second and America and the EU will have struggled to stand still economically for the last 20 years. The Asian economies on overdrive driven by several billion diligent people who are pushed forward not only by the positive feeling of living in a country where things gets better every year, but also by an improved educational system will have taken over the world economy. America and the EU will still be powerful of course but it is going to be at the level of struggling to stand still. 

Few people would question that Bangkok Patana is the best school in Thailand, it's been that for 20 years straight now, the education a child gets there beats most education you get in America or Europe. The problem is just that most people will not really see any opportunities in America or Europe in 15 to 20 years time and will probably not want to leave Asia. Going to an international school all the time here, they will have grown up in an expat style community without having any real roots either in "their own home country" or in Thailand. Most people need somewhere that we don't only call home but also feel home. We may be OK knowing that we're "outside and we'll always be outside" but should we assume that our kids will be OK feeling that all their lives too? This is why I don't recommend both primary and secondary education in international school. Part of the education in a good bilingual school will make a small difference academically and will give the kids the advantage of having one western foot and one eastern foot and the ability to feel at home in both societies, not only be able to bridge the cultural differences between east and west but also naturally understand them. 

A good education academically is necessary but it is not enough. If it hasn't been a happy time, then it hasn't been a good time, regardless of what future success it has the potential to bring… And a bit of Asia in the education is more than just good, it's an opportunity

Mikey

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## rickschoppers

Great stuff..........With everything said, does anyone know the best route for a good bilingual education in the Udon Thani area?

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## madjbs

> Few people would question that Bangkok Patana is the best school in Thailand, it's been that for 20 years straight now,


It's in the top 3 but it's not the best. In terms of exam results, class size and facilities etc..

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## MikeyIdea

> Great stuff..........With everything said, does anyone know the best route for a good bilingual education in the Udon Thani area?


Not in Udon, anyone else who can help please?

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## MikeyIdea

> Originally Posted by MikeyIdea
> 
> Few people would question that Bangkok Patana is the best school in Thailand, it's been that for 20 years straight now,
> 
> 
> It's in the top 3 but it's not the best. In terms of exam results, class size and facilities etc..


Good info, is UN school on Sukh 15 one of the 3? Which are in your opinion the top 3?

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## good2bhappy

I have 2 kids (at the moment) in a kindergarten bilingual programme
30k per term each plus some extras
Here in Minburi there are many to chose from
when they get to P3 I will think again

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## madjbs

> Good info, is UN school on Sukh 15 one of the 3? Which are in your opinion the top 3?


Yep, the top 3 are ISB, Nist and Bangkok Pattana. ISB has an American bias, NIST is very international (UN affiliated) and Bangkok Pattana has a British bias. My opinion is that ISB and NIST are better than Bangkok Pattana as they have smaller class sizes and achieve significantly higher results at IB level.

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## aging one

what about harrow?  I rate it high, way above pattana.

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## madjbs

Why do you rate Harrow over Bangkok Pattana? 

Harrow is good but old fashioned and they do A levels rather than IB. It is usually considered in the top 5 but not as high as the 3 I previously mentioned.

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## good2bhappy

Shrewsbury isn't bad

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## aging one

I guess just a major difference of opinion.  I dont have much regard for the graduates of Pattana. Seems to me Harrow places more students in better universities than Pattana..  I do like Nist as well. I would take it over ISB

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## madjbs

I agree, ISB is far too American biased, I think NIST gives a much more rounded education and school atmosphere.

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## rickschoppers

I wonder if Pattana Panya school in Udon Thani is affiliated witht he BKK school. I guess I could call the school in Bangkok and ask.

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## Bettyboo

My little monkies will be going to Chula demonstration school.

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## MikeyIdea

> My little monkies will be going to Chula demonstration school.


That's Satit Chula, my Thai boss sends her kids to that school. Thais have very high opinion of that school, I must say that I don't like what I hear. Academic knowledge means everything there, very Thai in its values

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## MikeyIdea

NIST was the school I was thinking about when I wrote the comment that it seemed that American books were cheaper or something. 

A Thai friend I had (this is some 10 years ago now) sent his kids to that school, I was amazed how much American history, native American indian history, American geography they were reading. Not International curriculum then, more American curriculum disguised as international.

Seems that this has changed, is it more weighted now?

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## madjbs

Because NIST used to be The American School Bangkok, before they moved to Nonthaburi and renamed themselves ISB. NIST was then founded on the old site in soi 15 in 1992.

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## MikeyIdea

> Because NIST used to be The American School Bangkok, before they moved to Nonthaburi and renamed themselves ISB. NIST was then founded on the old site in soi 15 in 1992.


I may mave mixed up names here, doesn't matter 

I am talking about the international school that was located on Sukhumvit Rd soi 15 in the late 90s. That's the school that taught their pupils as much American history and geography as the other countries in the world combined

Has it changed?

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## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> My little monkies will be going to Chula demonstration school.
> 
> 
> That's Satit Chula, my Thai boss sends her kids to that school. Thais have very high opinion of that school, I must say that I don't like what I hear. Academic knowledge means everything there, very Thai in its values


All the power in the nation goes through there, and has done for years; not that this means anything/everything - it's mcuh much cheaper than the other places, but difficult to get into, but my job entitles me, so it makes financial sense.

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## MikeyIdea

> Originally Posted by MikeyIdea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> ...


A school cannot be strong at everything, we as parents can compensate

I wonder if I had been as tired as a parent if I had been living in Europe somewhere? Probably not, I am glad that I moved over here my eyes opened up for a lot of things that I didn't consider before  :Smile:

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## aging one

> That's the school that taught their pupils as much American history and geography as the other countries in the world combined


That was ISB, we take American History and Geography as well as World History and World Geography. Different levels different years.  Am damn glad I had that education, as now I am home schooling my kids in the exact same things. Not as heavy on the US history but they now know the background.

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## Marmite the Dog

> With everything said, does anyone know the best route for a good bilingual education in the Udon Thani area?


St Mary's for girls and Don Bosco for boys.

Just because they're the best, doesn't mean they're any good though.

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## rickschoppers

Thanks Dog. I did see the Don Bosco website and agree that they may be considered an international school, but that does not make it a good eductation. It seems to be the only game in town right now though. My son is only 6 months old right now, but it is never too early to start looking around.

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## rotator

If you can afford an International school, do it.

If you cannot afford it, make excuses and look elsewhere.

If you want your child to have options outside Thailand, then send it to an IB school, if you want your child to be shackled to Thailand then look elsewhere and make excuses

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## aging one

> If you want your child to have options outside Thailand, then send it to an IB school, if you want your child to be shackled to Thailand then look elsewhere and make excuses


Number one to me would be to not call your child it.  There are nice options in Thailand but only as far as Mor 3.

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## MikeyIdea

3 comments here
1) I'm going to be a bit hard with the first one - If you choose a catholic school, make sure to get their corporal punishment policy in writing before you enroll your child. There has been a couple of rather severe (read sadistic) corporal punishment cases reported to the police and media that I have heard of and all of them have been from catholic schools. Last case a few months ago was at St. Mary's collage in Korat, the video circulating on the internet is shocking IMO https://youtube.com/v/evkQWnS3XYk

2) All child psychiatrists now a days agree that the actual knowledge children get at schools are less important than their EQ skills. It then to me sounds like a bad option to send a child to a school that separates boys and girls as that reduces the childs possibility to learn that most important skill. Maybe this matters less than what I think

3) rotators last post does not take into consideration that todays toddlers won't start working until 20 years time and will only be half way through their working life in 40 years time. By then and also long before that, most opportunities will be in Asia and those who don't have part Asian education and understand Asians will be at a disadvantage in the international workspace. I would not excuse my ignorance of this fact and send my child to an international school (for the whole education) where she would get a good education matching what's needed during her Daddys working years and miss out on what is needed during her working years. 

I don't make excuses, I think ahead. So rotator, if you want to be insulting, then think first  :Wink: 

And a child is not an "it" to me  :Smile: 

Edit: Line spacing

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## DrAndy

> A school cannot be strong at everything, we as parents can compensate


that is the most important factor in any kids education - the parents and their approach to education

I will be faced with the choice of having my kid educated in Thailand, Portugal or England in the future

Where I live in London has OK primary schools but basic secondary education (too many immigrants, not enough good teachers)

The Portuguese sysem is very poor, except for a few expensive schools in Lisbon

but even that may be the better option than Thai education

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## Marmite the Dog

My youngest had been going to school for over a year (started when he was 2) and to be honest, he seemed to have learnt fuck all apart from how to cry like a girl when he wanted his own way or to be stroppy and answer his mother back.

I did have a word with his teacher as to why he couldn't yet recognise written numbers and she said 'This isn't a Western school!'. So there you have it. Thai teachers themselves believe that students are not at school to learn stuff.

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## MikeyIdea

I hope I don't misunderstand you, sorry if I do, but you write that your child started at the age of 2 and has been in school for over a year. Then he should still be in pre-Kindergarten, right? 3 years old or just 4?

Then it is not important for him to learn numbers

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## Marmite the Dog

> I hope I don't misunderstand you, sorry if I do, but you write that your child started at the age of 2 and has been in school for over a year. Then he should still be in pre-Kindergarten, right? 3 years old or just 4?
> 
> Then it is not important for him to learn numbers


He is in Anubaan 1 and is 3 years old (4 in July).

I didn't say it was important, but it's why we send him to school. You know, to learn stuff? I'm just disappointed because I wanted him to get a head-start.

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## MikeyIdea

> Originally Posted by MikeyIdea
> 
> 
> I hope I don't misunderstand you, sorry if I do, but you write that your child started at the age of 2 and has been in school for over a year. Then he should still be in pre-Kindergarten, right? 3 years old or just 4?
> 
> Then it is not important for him to learn numbers
> 
> 
> He is in Anubaan 1 and is 3 years old (4 in July).
> ...


I recommend not to worry about the knowledge head-start thing at all, research shows that advantage in knowledge at that age gives no long-term benefit. Advantage in Development and EQ - SQ really does though, it's initiative, creativity, self control, the beginnings of concentration, self confidence, imagination, spirit, passion, pride in learning, things like that that matters at the age of 3

It is not important for a 3-year-old to learn numbers, it's what I write above that you and the school should concentrate on

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## rickschoppers

> My youngest had been going to school for over a year (started when he was 2) and to be honest, he seemed to have learnt fuck all apart from how to cry like a girl when he wanted his own way or to be stroppy and answer his mother back.
> 
> I did have a word with his teacher as to why he couldn't yet recognise written numbers and she said 'This isn't a Western school!'. So there you have it. Thai teachers themselves believe that students are not at school to learn stuff.


So what is your plan now for your youngest? Do you plan to home school, keep trying to find a decent school or send him off to a recognized internationlal school. It is a difficult situation and have only seen a few solutions on this thread. I do not really want to send my son off while he is young but am not sure if any other solutions, short of home schooling, will give him a good learning foundation.

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## sabang

Education in Thailand?  :rofl: 
It's not, it's indoctrination.
And it's getting worse.

There are a handful of International schools that might provide an 'average' educational standard here, but now you'll probably end up with 'expat brat' syndrome- which they'd hopefully shake if & when they go onto tertiary education overseas.

I don't have kids fortunately, but if I did I reckon I'd bite the bullet and send them to a Boarding school in Australia or the UK. Some place where curiosity and asking questions is rewarded, not punished. Which means I'd have to go back to work really, which would be most unfortunate.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
> 
> 
> My youngest had been going to school for over a year (started when he was 2) and to be honest, he seemed to have learnt fuck all apart from how to cry like a girl when he wanted his own way or to be stroppy and answer his mother back.
> 
> I did have a word with his teacher as to why he couldn't yet recognise written numbers and she said 'This isn't a Western school!'. So there you have it. Thai teachers themselves believe that students are not at school to learn stuff.
> 
> 
> So what is your plan now for your youngest? Do you plan to home school, keep trying to find a decent school or send him off to a recognized internationlal school. It is a difficult situation and have only seen a few solutions on this thread. I do not really want to send my son off while he is young but am not sure if any other solutions, short of home schooling, will give him a good learning foundation.


I'd like to send him to my mother in the UK, but I think she'd tell me to fek off!

I guess he'll spend all his life in Thailand, so as long as I can explain that most of what they say at school is complete bollocks then I can't do much else. 

I don't have the time to home-school him and his Thai is already better than mine, so I fear it would be worse than him going to a Thai 'school'.

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## tnd034

> Originally Posted by MikeyIdea
> 
> That's the school that taught their pupils as much American history and geography as the other countries in the world combined
> 
> 
> That was ISB, we take American History and Geography as well as World History and World Geography. Different levels different years.  Am damn glad I had that education, as now I am home schooling my kids in the exact same things. Not as heavy on the US history but they now know the background.


I am also glad that I had that education. I've learned so much I can't believe how much info they stuck into my little head back in school. I think it was worth the education taking into considering the amount of knowledge and activities that school provided. Their facilities were top notch and probably the best in Thailand, because the school is big, it gives the children a large selection of courses and activities to choose from. Many of the small international schools have a very limited number of courses and activities.

If you can afford it definitely send your kid to an International School. ISB and Nist seems to have the best balance of students, many other big international schools such as BPS and RIS has too many asians in my opinion, this is not a bad thing. But I have noticed many friends who attended these schools spoke mostly their mother tongue at school, thus their english never improved even after 10 years studying there! Most non-thais are better at speaking Thai than english as a matter of fact. So I think thats one thing to consider if you are choosing an International School.

Depending what languages you expect your kid to speak, if Thai is also a priority. I would pick a Bilingual school. Even if its not, you should consider it, either Thai-English, or Chinese-English. It will give your kid a head start in life.

Since I will be living here the rest of my life, I would put Thai and English as a priority. If I were to send my kid to school, I would send them to a Tri-lingual school (Thai, Chinese, and English). I have many friends who send them to Tri-lingual school and their kids can speak three languages fluently, I was truly impressed. They could read and write three language in middle school! Although not at an advance level, a basic-intermediate level is enough for general communications.

 After middle school, I would move my kids to a big International School so they can learn a fourth language if they choose. The International School will also provide them with a large selection of courses and activities. I believe bigger International Schools offer a more advance selection of courses for students compared to smaller ones. IB and AP programs are very important I think these high level courses prepares a student for what to expect in college in terms of the difficulty and work load. 

I wouldn't send my kid to a big International School for elementary, it's a waste of money considering they are just learning English and other basic courses which is what smaller international schools will teach as well for a lot cheaper!

If you can only speak one language in today's society, you are already behind, if you can speak two - you are just average, three languages is a must if you want to excel in such a diverse society and do business in today's world.

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## rickschoppers

The above makes sense about learning Thai, English and Chinese to give a child a "jump" in todays world. Thai, because they will probably call Thailand their first home no matter where they live in later life. English, because it is the accepted "international language" used thoroughout the world. Chinese, since they will more than likely be the next superpower, unless we have some sort of major war. In the business world, I would think these three languages would be best if you are of Thai/Western decent.
 I also agree with the statements about not worrying too much with the excellerated academia at an early age. It seems learning good study habits along with social skills could be learned in less "superior" schools and assure a child has a good learning base for choosing whatever path they gravitate toward. I have one grown son who was not a good student, never went to college and now works for a computer company and is doing very well without an extensive education. My other son had good study habits and is now in his last year of college in mechanical engineering. Both of the same seed, but two completely different personalities. I hope my little one will find something he excells in and follows his own path in life instead of being funneled down the road I would prefer him to take. 
This has been good to read what others think and I will start looking for a school that teaches English and Chinese along with Thai as a main language. I will make later decisions once my son shows an aptitude to go one path or another. I would like to leave some of the decision making up to him.

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## Blake7

> I agree, ISB is far too American biased, I think NIST gives a much more rounded education and school atmosphere.


Madjbs: I heard that the well-respected head of NIST moved to Bangkok Prep which has recently opened near Thonglor. Have you heard much about that place? Seems like it will be quite good.
What about the American School of Bangkok behind Sametivej?

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## Marmite the Dog

> What about the American School of Bangkok behind Sametivej?


Complete wank.

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## MikeyIdea

Good post with a lot to consider in tnd034. How do we best prepare our kids for what they will need in 20 to 60 years time? => their working life. Not by only giving them what WE needed, that's for sure. I think that minimum bilingual, trilingual better still is the way to go, pathom in bi/tri lingual and matayom in international school (grade 7 up) is a very good option

Not writing this to create conflict but IMO, only international school is only a decent choice for those who plan to go home to their home country and stay there. Diversity opens up doors now and not having it will close doors in 20 to 60 years time. Opportunity lost. 

Was it NIST or ISB?
I could swear that it was NIST on Sukh soi 15 (not ISB) that my friend sent his kids to in the late 90s, I followed his kid for 2 years 1999 and 2000 probably and I was surprised how much about native American indians and dead presidents and stuff like that he read, so much that I considered it to be at the expense of internationally more useful stuff. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike America and Americans, I work for an American multi-national in Bangkok since 97 (came to Thailand in 91), but the world is big! Has NIST changed or are they still more American than truly international?

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## Norton

> Has NIST changed or are they still more American than truly international?


Lived near there for several years and knew parents and kids attending. NIST was quite America centered. Doubt it has changed much over last few years. 

ISO does a much better job in presenting a more worldly curriculum.

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## madjbs

> There are a handful of International schools that might provide an 'average' educational standard here,


Sorry but I don't think you know what you are talking about. The handful of "average" schools people are talking about here are achieving very high grades at IB level. All the teachers are very well qualified from all around the world. They are certainly better than the vast majority of standard boarding schools in Australia.

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## skyywalker

> Thanks Dog. I did see the Don Bosco website and agree that they may be considered an international school, but that does not make it a good eductation. It seems to be the only game in town right now though. My son is only 6 months old right now, but it is never too early to start looking around.


I have an 8 month old son and plan on enrolling him at Mataneedol Bilingual School
My wife worked at this school when they first opened a few years back.  It's in Khon Kaen City-perhaps too far for want you need Rick.  We plan on enrolling our son Alex there starting next May.

As far as Satit schools go, I only have experience with the Satit HS in Khon Kaen.  The quality of education there pales in comparison to it's reputation.  I guess that reputation is more important than what actually happens in the classroom.

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## rickschoppers

Thanks skywalker.........I will keep looking around to see what else is available in my neck of the woods. KK is a bit far and I wish you luck. Keep us posted on the progress.

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## Bettyboo

> I recommend not to worry about the knowledge head-start thing at all, research shows that advantage in knowledge at that age gives no long-term benefit. Advantage in Development and EQ - SQ really does though, it's initiative, creativity, self control, the beginnings of concentration, self confidence, imagination, spirit, passion, pride in learning, things like that that matters at the age of 3 It is not important for a 3-year-old to learn numbers, it's what I write above that you and the school should concentrate on


A lot to disagree with here...

As far as 3 year olds learning stuff, including numbers, of course they can. And they do... & English numbers are simple to learn at that age, it gives them confidence in numbers, they enjoy the learning and problem solving...

You've said several times now about not needing 'knowledge'. It seems that your idea of what 'knowledge' means and mine, must be different. Every experience is knowledge, and of course they need to learn more and mnore and more knowledge. They need to develop thinking skills, problem solving skills, critical thinking skills. Actually, they are all working already, so you just have to nurture them.

As for your EQ and SA and 'spirit', 'imagination', 'passion', 'pride in learning', being important for 3 year olds... ahem, I think not. But, I suspect it's your terminology rather than your ideas, which is strange. Of course, all their development needs to be nurtured. I agree with Marmite; the K1, K2, K3 learning is very poor here...

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## MikeyIdea

> Originally Posted by MikeyIdea
> 
> I recommend not to worry about the knowledge head-start thing at all, research shows that advantage in knowledge at that age gives no long-term benefit. Advantage in Development and EQ - SQ really does though, it's initiative, creativity, self control, the beginnings of concentration, self confidence, imagination, spirit, passion, pride in learning, things like that that matters at the age of 3 It is not important for a 3-year-old to learn numbers, it's what I write above that you and the school should concentrate on
> 
> 
> A lot to disagree with here...
> 
> As far as 3 year olds learning stuff, including numbers, of course they can. And they do... & English numbers are simple to learn at that age, it gives them confidence in numbers, they enjoy the learning and problem solving...
> 
> ...


Disagreement is not bad, its discussion  :Smile: 

There is information written by child psychiatrists to be found on the internet, what I read is in German, English and Swedish. Id be careful to filter out what is not written by child psychiatrists, there is so much information on the internet, not all is good. 

So what is knowledge? The ability to use the brain to take decisions and to problem solve is not knowledge, thinking skills is not knowledge. Knowledge is to have been taught to remember the shapes of the digits zero to nine, but it is not knowledge that makes the hand of a 3 year old grab a pencil and draw them. Child psychiatrists separate knowledge from other types of development depending on how it was learnt and how the brain is using it. It is not a clear cut line. Perhaps we think the same but are using different terms. 

It is common opinion among child psychiatrists that there is no long term advantage in pushing knowledge in 3 year olds. Its teach the child to use his brain and give the child a good personality that is important, not filling it with knowledge. Of course 3 year old kids can and will learn the numbers zero to nine if we teach them, there is just no benefit in doing it at 3 instead of at 5

Personality is shaped from a very early stage. It can both be altered and improved later in life but it will never really be as natural as if it was there already when a kid started school. I just sat and graded the staff in the department with my boss (15 people), we looked at the list after we had finished it and it was striking that the result was actually more a grading of personality than of knowledge, it was a fun exercise and an eye-opener for what is important to help our children with the most

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## good2bhappy

at the age of 3 what is important is to learn how to socialy interact

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## Bettyboo

> Disagreement is not bad, it’s discussion There is information written by child psychiatrists to be found on the internet, what I read is in German, English and Swedish. I’d be careful to filter out what is not written by child psychiatrists, there is so much information on the internet, not all is good. So what is knowledge? The ability to use the brain to take decisions and to problem solve is not knowledge, thinking skills is not knowledge. Knowledge is to have been taught to remember the shapes of the digits zero to nine, but it is not knowledge that makes the hand of a 3 year old grab a pencil and draw them. Child psychiatrists separate “knowledge” from other types of development depending on how it was learnt and how the brain is using it. It is not a clear cut line. Perhaps we think the same but are using different terms. It is common opinion among child psychiatrists that there is no long term advantage in pushing knowledge in 3 year olds. It’s teach the child to use his brain and give the child a good personality that is important, not filling it with knowledge. Of course 3 year old kids can and will learn the numbers zero to nine if we teach them, there is just no benefit in doing it at 3 instead of at 5 Personality is shaped from a very early stage. It can both be altered and improved later in life but it will never really be as natural as if it was there already when a kid started school. I just sat and graded the staff in the department with my boss (15 people), we looked at the list after we had finished it and it was striking that the result was actually more a grading of personality than of knowledge, it was a fun exercise and an eye-opener for what is important to help our children with the most


Too much child psychology for my liking...  :Smile: 

I'm considering a cognitive linguistic and psycho-linguistic perspective along with language learning. For me, it's more practical and has equal, if not stronger, scientific base too.




> So what is knowledge? The ability to use the brain to take decisions and to problem solve is not knowledge, thinking skills is not knowledge. Knowledge is to have been taught to remember the shapes of the digits zero to nine, but it is not knowledge that makes the hand of a 3 year old grab a pencil and draw them.


Again, I disagree here. From the latest cognitive linguistic research, language and knowledge are embodied. Any connection with the outside world is both learnt knowledge and a process of embodiment. Drawing is an emdoied process, for example, which draws upon learnt 'knowledge'. When you dram about drawing, the motor-neurons that control your hand to draw are firing. Thus teaching a child to draw is giving them knowledge, as is teaching a child numbers. Prepositions (up, down) and binaries are obviously embodied processes, but still is everything else... Your view of knowledge, if you don't mind me saying so, is more than a little objectivist, which is pretty much proven as a dead rubber by recent cognitive research.




> It is common opinion among child psychiatrists that there is no long term advantage in pushing knowledge in 3 year olds.


Once you accept that language and 'knowledge' are embodied then this viewpoint disappears...




> It’s teach the child to use his brain and give the child a good personality that is important,


To be honest, this statement has no meaning; 'give a child a good personality' is not something that can be done... It also sounds horribly moral...




> Personality is shaped from a very early stage. It can both be altered and improved later in life but it will never really be as natural as if it was there already when a kid started school.


Again, this comes across as horribly moral... Maybe it's a language barrier thing. But, trying to shape and 'improve' a child's personality is not something a school should be doing... If at all, then it's the parents responsibility.

It looks to me as though you have strong opinions from a certain perspective. Child psychologists are not people I particularly respect, and yes, I have been around them...

Lastly, I would say that 'knowledge' is very important for little learners, even the age of 3; especially the age of 3, to pick up at school. Of course, the teaching must be fun and imaginative, encouraging the students to develop in a breadth of areas - knowledge being one of the most important. I fully encourage the teaching of numbers at the age of 3 or 4, along with a balance of other kiddy skills and knowledge.  :Smile:

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## Marmite the Dog

> at the age of 3 what is important is to learn how to socialy interact


Total nonsense.

I was probably 2 years ahead of my peers when I was 4 years old and now look at me. I sit in front of a PC all day and conduct friendships via 2 strands of twisted copper wire.

Hmmmm....

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## Bobcock

> I heard that the well-respected head of NIST moved to Bangkok Prep which has recently opened near Thonglor. Have you heard much about that place? Seems like it will be quite good.


My kids have been going there for years.....the addition of said Headmaster was very good news, he's a good guy and well respected. He has since recruited well respected teachers from other schools.

We are very happy with the place and I'd rather have them there than in NIST (some insider stories that were not so positive) ISB and Patana (too big)

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## MikeyIdea

Bettyboo, I am not talking about language at all. But I do still think that we talk about basically the same thing, except that definitions differ  :Smile: 

Unless you think that starting to learn to read and write at the age of 3 is good. Everything has its time when it comes to teaching children, the key thing here is that there is no long term benefit in pushing things earlier than what the child is ready for, only frustration and slower learning of what is pushed. Like the stupidity of what they are trying to do in many Thai kindergartens, teaching blending to 3-4 year-olds. Takes 3 months to learn, 3 months of struggeling and frustration that is not good for the kids when they are 4 years old. It takes 3 days to teach the kids the same thing 18 months later. I think we think the same  :Smile:  

Here I'm not sure though. What's wrong with the phrase shaping personality, giving children personalities? Personality is shaped mainly by the childs main role model but also by the environment the child is in. Of course you can 'give' a child a good personality - If you are your childs main role model, then just watch how the child will grow up to behave and act like you. If the main role model is different, then the child will be different. George Bush's children are likely to become strong leadertypes, good or bad... That is shaping personality. Enhance a childs personality isn't taught as such, it's just role modelling. It is really happenening, whatever we call it

I totally agree with that it is us parents who should be the main role models and thereby whatever we should call it the personality of our children, Still, schools matter and teachers do affect their pupils every day, for some they matter less, for others more. All kindergarten teachers I have met think that it's part of their job to teach more than just knowledge to their pupils

I spent a lot of time around child psychiatrists before, I do respect their knowledge a lot, it's a whole lot of common sense, IMO  :Smile:

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