#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Doing Things Legally >  >  Thai owning land. How old must they be?

## the dogcatcher

I would like to transfer some land into a Thai nationals name.
The problem may well be that the individual in question is only 7 years old.

This is Laosy's daughter and I want her to have the land when I die.
I have no children and no one else to leave it to.

Any comments?

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## jandajoy

How come you "own" the land in the first place? Is this in Thailand?

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## Mid

I'll stand corrected but I seem to recall that an adult holds it in trust for a minor till they come of age .

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## the dogcatcher

I have a "lease" on the land which is owned by my friends wife.

We did this to circumvent the law, but the land is considered mine.

May not be if my friend dies though.

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## jandajoy

Give the land, in trust to the daughter, via Laosy ?

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## the dogcatcher

Laosy is well, Laosy. She's not Thai.

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## jandajoy

> I don't think it gonna be a problem.


Do you know about Land Law in Thailand?

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## good2bhappy

15 days

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## good2bhappy

naturally there will have to be a legal gaurdian or trustee until they come of age 15 years? or when the trust stipulates if longer

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## the dogcatcher

> 15 days


 
???????????????

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## the dogcatcher

Guardian has to be Thai?

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## Mid

_If a person wishes to give as a gift a piece of land to a Thai  alien-born minor, the competent authority shall inquire into his/her  intention to give the gift to the minor and into his/her legal relations  with the minor. If the property to be given as a gift is acquired by  purchase, it must be determined out of whose money the acquisition has  been made. That is questioned for fear that the alien parent may give  the money to a Thai person to buy and hold the property as nominee  owner, and later give it as a gift to the minor. However, in the case of  a Thai alien-born major, no official inquiry shall be made to establish  the said fact.

_http://www.tudorvillas.co.uk/land_systems.php

problem being the above relates to the 1997 Constitution and we know where that went ..............._
_

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## good2bhappy

a child becomes a legal entity at 15 days
for contractual purposes
(not criminal)

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## Spin

> This is Laosy's daughter


Is the child 100% Thai?

If she is then the land can be gifted to her under thai law.

However, you will need to nominate a guardian, who will have certain powers over the land until the child is 18 when the guardianship expires.

Those powers include selling the land unfortunately, if it can be demonstrated that the guardian "is acting in the best interests" of the child. This is a very murky area and not one to be trusting ya ba addicted chronic gamblers with for example......which of course you wouldn't be doing but fuck me there have been plenty of halfwit foreigners who have set many stupid precedents in this country that the rest of us who came along with brains at a later date are confronted with.

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## the dogcatcher

Not really sure I get that.

Maybe make the current owner the trusty?
This is now getting complicated since the lease is in my name.

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## Spin

> Laosy is well, Laosy. She's not Thai.


She's a foreigner then.

You can lease it to her, but that's about it.

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## the dogcatcher

Child has a Thai father.

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## good2bhappy

Upon reaching 15 years of age a person of Thai nationality is required to file for an ID card.

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## good2bhappy

*Section 41* A person having a husband, wife or child may acquire or hold rights in land for their benefit in an amount equal to that which such husband, wife or child might hold under this Code.

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## the dogcatcher

Velly confusing.

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## pompeybloke

> I'll stand corrected but I seem to recall that an adult holds it in trust for a minor till they come of age .


This is how I understand it too, and have bought for my children with their mum as guarantor, but it's not foolproof; it just makes things more difficult should mortgaging or attempted selling take place.

It's a murky area and my advice to you Dogcatcher is to email Sebastian at issan lawyers to get sound legal advice as TIT and everthing is grey.

Also, allowance using minors varies from one land registry office to another. Nang Rong wouldn't have it, but Buriram did when I went through a local bigwig. All precarious but them's the risks.

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## good2bhappy

Age of Majority is 20 years of age
unless your married which is then 15 years of age

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## the dogcatcher

Velly confusing.

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## good2bhappy

so the child needs a legal gaurdian
and it is not so easy to sell the land

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## the dogcatcher

Hmmm. I might give this one up.
Doable, but not really.

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## good2bhappy

On the deed put the kid's name
simple

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## the dogcatcher

Thanks for the help guys.

Too complex me thinks.

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## nevets

AS stated go see a proper solicitor/lawyer.

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## BobR

Suggestion from an American lawyer;  take a few Baht and go see a GOOD Thai lawyer.  Don't rely on any other advice.  By good lawyer, I mean one of the Thai law firms  in Bangkok, not some Pattaya shyster with an office over a massage parlor.  Will cost you some money, but worth it in the end.  There are too many conflicting stories and rumors about how this can be done and the paperwork is only as good as the lawyer who wrote it.  Good of you to do this, but you want to leave the child land, not a problem or a heartache.

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## the dogcatcher

It's the way ahead.

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## Phuketrichard

I put the land i brought and built our house on in my daughters name when she was 9 and i was the guardian. ( I am American and she is half Thai) the land was in a Thai friends name before.  At 15 ( when thai's are issued ID cards) it was then placed in her name,

So to own land you need be 15 and have an id card

NOTE while she owns it and you as the Farang are her/his leagl guardian it may NOT be sold.

Simple

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## Chairman Mao

The land is leased by you. It is owned by a non-related Thai (your friends's wife).

So upon your death the land doesn't return to the owner?
Or is the lease inherited?

In which case the heir will only have until it expires, which if you just leased it, she'll be 37 max before the lease runs out.

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## good2bhappy

> So to own land you need be 15 and have an id card NOTE while she owns it and you as the Farang are her/his leagl guardian it may NOT be sold. Simple


exactly

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## Chairman Mao

> I would like to transfer some land into a Thai nationals name.


But it's not your land to transfer. You only lease it.

How about getting the actual owner of the land to legalize that she'll leave the land to your step daughter when she passes. If it is truly considered to be yours.

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## good2bhappy

I don't think leases can be passed on in wills

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## buriramboy

back in 2006 when my daughter was 3, put 36 rai in her name at the land office, me and misses had to sign a load of papers, me probably signing my life away and the misses acting as some sort of guarantor for the land until my daughter reaches 20 i think it is, no problems what so ever, the transfer was from the MIL name to the daughters name, had the papers translated and looked over by a lawyer (as an after thought) and all ok and totally legal and legit.

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## Chairman Mao

^^ Then as he only leases the land, there's presumably nothing to discuss in terms of him leaving it to anyone.

^ Going through the actual owner seems the only way to go.

Guess you will get to see if the unrelated Thai owner_ really_ considers the land yours now.  :Smile:

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## Spin

> NOTE while she owns it and you as the Farang are her/his leagl guardian it may NOT be sold.


That's not true. A guardian can sell the land if they can prove that it's in the child interests, this is murky as I stated before.

It would be true in Richards case because he was the guardian, and isn't inclined to sell.

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## good2bhappy

> A guardian can sell the land if they can prove that it's in the child interests


I thought they had to go to court to gain permission?

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## buriramboy

> Originally Posted by Phuketrichard
> 
> NOTE while she owns it and you as the Farang are her/his leagl guardian it may NOT be sold.
> 
> 
> That's not true. A guardian can sell the land if they can prove that it's in the child interests, this is murky as I stated before.
> 
> It would be true in Richards case because he was the guardian, and isn't inclined to sell.


For the guardian to sell it, have to go to court, obviously being Thailand there is probably a way round that though, anyway i have the chanotes here with me, 1 for 20 rai and 1 for 16 rai both in my daughters name. and never had an issue.

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## Happyman

All very informative - ultimate solution is rent on a fixed contract - then renew or move ! :mid:

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## the dogcatcher

> ^^ Then as he only leases the land, there's presumably nothing to discuss in terms of him leaving it to anyone.
> 
> ^ Going through the actual owner seems the only way to go.
> 
> Guess you will get to see if the unrelated Thai owner_ really_ considers the land yours now.


The Chairman hitting nails on heads now.

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## Bung

So say I buy (my wife) a house and want to leave it to my son, who is 9. Better I don't lease it then? I can put his name on the lease and be his guarantor until he is 15 when ownership goes to him? 

Between now and when he turns 15 I have no security? Understand that at 15 he can boot me out anyway....

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## Phuketrichard

AS A Farang being the Guardian, I can not sell the land which was held in my thai daughters name.  She can do as she wishes since she turned 15 and has her id card and for land owning purposes is the Legal owner. BTW, WE sold it last year and dam lucky.

Leases can be passed on to whomever the original lessor appoints as the inheritor.   The lease, ( if it is 100% registered and the lessor, ( even if he is a Farang)  is on the back of the Chanot or nor sor sam paper) is a leagaly binding contract for 30 years

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## Bung

Thanks for clearing that up.

So I can buy (my wife) a house, lease it from my wife and appoint my son as the inheritor, that's good for me.

Can he sell it after I die and if the lease is still valid?

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## Phuketrichard

He can sell the LEASE if u made an arrangement in the lease that it can be resold.

He cant sell the house or land cause its in ur wifes name.

Why not buy the land/house in HIS name and place ur name as the lessor? and u act as the Guardian.
That way its his house once he turns 15 and he can do whatever he wants to.

Thou i am 100% sure your wife will argue against this as she will say, "what, you no trust me"
and if u answer turthfully the answer would be "nope, sorry i want make sure my son is taken care of."

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## good2bhappy

sorry I thought leases lapsed on death of the lessee

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## the dogcatcher

I thought that too.

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## good2bhappy

thought that is why there is so much talk about a Userfract

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## Bung

> He can sell the LEASE if u made an arrangement in the lease that it can be resold.  He cant sell the house or land cause its in ur wifes name.  Why not buy the land/house in HIS name and place ur name as the lessor? and u act as the Guardian. That way its his house once he turns 15 and he can do whatever he wants to.  Thou i am 100% sure your wife will argue against this as she will say, "what, you no trust me" and if u answer turthfully the answer would be "nope, sorry i want make sure my son is taken care of."


Not easy is it?  :Smile: 

Must be one of the most debated topics and cause for concern out there...

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## William

As I understand it, legally the land belong to someone else and the occupier/poster leases the land. 

It has been a while since I was in Thailand, but it used to be the case that a lease of land was a personal right that terminated on the death of the leasee. As such, you cannot "will" this lease to another. Only the landowner can transfer the legal title to the beneficiary.

If this is still the case, then this whole thread is rather a waste of time.

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## Chairman Mao

Pretty much what I said.

I still think he should get the Thai owner to legally give it to his daughter, as she (the true owner) considers it theirs anyway. I'm sure she'll be more than happy to give it to its rightful owner.

Get back to us on how it goes.

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## parryhandy

Any update ?

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## the dogcatcher

No updates since as I am not a legal guardian.
That needs sorting first, another can of worms.
The other point maybe, is, what happens if I fall out with mama and get a new squeeze.
This is not unheard of in LOS.

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## Phuketrichard

when i brought my land i had it in my wifes name.  Then had her sign a power of attorney and left it blank.  When i saw things were going bad i went and placed it in my childs name and as everyone at the land office knew me, no trouble.
After my wife left us and learned what i did she threatened to get a lawyer an sue me.   fat chance of that as everything was legal at that time.

In thailand if u invest more than 10,000 baht in ANYTHING cover ur ass cause Shit does happen, ( an dmore so here than back home  :-) :mid:

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## FarangRed

> I don't think leases can be passed on in wills


can be written in the lease in case of a death

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## FarangRed

If you can wait till later when i see her indoors I will get it straight from the horses mouth for you

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## Chairman Mao

Have you told the Thai who owns the land that she's to sign it over to your wife or Thai step-daughter yet, without gaining anything in return?  :Razz:

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## Phuketrichard

Mao;
who was that directed to?  I have owned land in a Thai name that was a friend and have then sold it and she never asked for anything.  If you think all thai's are only interested in Money your living in the wrong country and associating with the wrong Thai's.
By the way she is my daughter NOT step daughter.

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## dotcom

> I put the land i brought and built our house on in my daughters name when she was 9 and i was the guardian. ( I am American and she is half Thai) the land was in a Thai friends name before. At 15 ( when thai's are issued ID cards) it was then placed in her name,
> 
> So to own land you need be 15 and have an id card
> 
> NOTE while she owns it and you as the Farang are her/his leagl guardian it may NOT be sold.
> 
> Simple


Does this attract the normal 3% transfer tax each time you change registered owners?

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## FarangRed

A Thai child can own land but have to get the parents to sign uptill coming of age so to speak and as you are transferring a Chanote then you will have to pay the transfer tax, that might vary from province to province.

The biggest problem is you have your land in someone else's name? am I correct?
If something happens to that person, god forbid then they could not transfer it.

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## buriramboy

I'm going back to 2005/6 when i put the land in my daughters name, it was transferred from the mother in law to my daughter and i know that transferring land within the family there is a lower tax rate for transfers. Can't remember the rates though for the life of me but wasn't a lot.

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## Chairman Mao

> Mao;
> who was that directed to?


The OP.

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## the dogcatcher

> Have you told the Thai who owns the land that she's to sign it over to your wife or Thai step-daughter yet, without gaining anything in return?


That was the original understanding.
Since then I've heard she is telling people in the village differently.
It maybe that it is illegal for her to own land on my account, or maybe not.
I'm not actually that bothered cos I'll be dead, but it could make a hell of a difference to my step daughters life.
Or, so I thought at the time. Recently I discovered that step daughter already has a house in trust in her name.

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## Phuketrichard

when i transfered the Nor sor sam from my ex to my daughter they did NOT charge me any tax and that was in 2003

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## FarangRed

^I think between relatives you will get charged a little, but this case is not relative so on paper it looks like a land transaction

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## Chairman Mao

> Originally Posted by Chairman Mao
> 
> 
> Have you told the Thai who owns the land that she's to sign it over to your wife or Thai step-daughter yet, without gaining anything in return? 
> 
> 
> That was the original understanding.
> Since then I've heard she is telling people in the village differently.


unfortunately, quite believable.  




> I'm not actually that bothered cos I'll be dead, but it could make a hell of a difference to my step daughters life.


If the owner is dead too, and she's passed it onto whoever she has chosen, her daughter or own family more than likely, then your step-daughter has no chance.

It's like me renting an apartment, and telling the owner that when I die it is legally owned by my next of kin. 



> It maybe that it is illegal for her to own land on my account, or maybe not.


Unfortunately it's probably her bragging about getting some farang to buy her a nice patch of land.  :Sad: 




> Or, so I thought at the time. Recently I discovered that step daughter already has a house in trust in her name.


Well, what can you say, it's amazing how many things are kept in the dark from the foreign visitor. 

Good luck with it all. Hopefully it will all work out.

As you say your friend is the owner's husband. Maybe best to go through him, to get him to get his wife to hand it over. Unless he thinks it's better in his wife's name too.

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## the dogcatcher

The arrangement was simply to circumvent Thai law.
As I said, I couldn't give a shit but Laosy would like her daughter to have it.
Probably be on my 4th Thai wife by then though, so something and nothing in this thread but it has certainly provided some interesting banter and raised some interesting points for discussion regarding the law, and to a lesser extent the culture.

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## Chairman Mao

> Laosy would like her daughter to have it.


Hopefully will all work out.

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## Chairman Mao

> The arrangement was simply to circumvent Thai law.


Although it should be noted that what ye did is actually illegal, and the land can be confiscated from the current Thai owner.

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## FarangRed

^your rite there CM I know it goes on but depending on the value of the land they could ask her where she got the money from, if she cannot prove it she could lose it

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## Chairman Mao

Yup. Have never heard of this law being enforced. And would imagine that it virtually never is. 

But the future of Thailand is so uncertain, in both the short and long term, never invest in anything here that you can't give away without tears being shed.

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## FarangRed

I know of a couple of people being investigated as we speak

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## Chairman Mao

:Sad: 

Expect as the economy worsens, the political situation deteriorates, and the next Elvis regime comes along, such experiences of exploiting the legal standing of foreigners here will increase.

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## the dogcatcher

> The arrangement was simply to circumvent Thai law.
> 			
> 		
> 
> Although it should be noted that what ye did is actually illegal, and the land can be confiscated from the current Thai owner.


She already owned the land before I bought it or leased it, so technically there was no infringement. She may well be telling everyone that it is a lease only as she knows that holding land for a foriegner is illegal.
I don't know.

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## Chairman Mao

> She already owned the land


So you simply paid to lease the land, not to actually buy it, and then change ownership to a Thai that you're related to?

I rent my condo on a monthly basis. If I die, my partner will get it until the that rental period is up. Thinking that she, or any Thai I choose will somehow own it forever is bizarre.

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## the dogcatcher

Not really.
Her husband is my best friend, probably closer to a brother.

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## FarangRed

What you buy the land from her but she gets to keep it in her name? no wonder she's spouting off around the village

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## the dogcatcher

Difficult to really know.
She is very westernized, even has European citizenship and residential status.
Prob be ok, but as I said I'm not that bothered, but might be nice for a poor little Thai girl.

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## FarangRed

well move it now for the little thai girl and you get to give it to the person who you want to have it

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## the dogcatcher

Well actually, now I,ve given it alot more consideration I think I will wait a bit.
Doesn't mean to say this thread is dead.
I'm sure there are other members in similar situations.

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## Chairman Mao

Hopefully will be able to transfer it to the daughter's name once she's old enough.

If all is fair and the owner is happy with it, it won't be any problem.

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## Chairman Mao

This seems about the best bit of info.




> I put the land i brought and built our house on in my daughters name when she was 9 and i was the guardian. ( I am American and she is half Thai) the land was in a Thai friends name before.  At 15 ( when thai's are issued ID cards) it was then placed in her name,
> 
> So to own land you need be 15 and have an id card
> 
> NOTE while she owns it and you as the Farang are her/his leagl guardian it may NOT be sold.
> 
> Simple


Seems like something you could do - put it into the daughter's name with you as guardian until she's 15.

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## the dogcatcher

The owner and Laosy are very close as well.
I think it will be ok, but this thread was started to look for the way ahead, and if the information contained within is correct then I have any number of hoops to jump through to make this possible. Especially if I don't want to involve other third party Thais, such as solicitors acting as legal guardians to the land etc.

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## FarangRed

She's old enough already CM,  OK upto you what you but if you need advise dont forget I got her in doors Mrs FarangRed a pocket battleship

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## FarangRed

why wait until the horse has bolted?

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## the dogcatcher

FR, not sure I understand your last post.

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## FarangRed

better to move it now, than wait till there is a problem

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## FarangRed

closing/shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted trying to stop something bad happening when it has already happened and the situation cannot be changed Improving security after a major theft would seem to be a bit like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

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## the dogcatcher

The legal situation will never change, maybe you're saying beter to force the situation?

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## Phuketrichard

> ^your rite there CM I know it goes on but depending on the value of the land they could ask her where she got the money from, if she cannot prove it she could lose it


You don't lose it if its in a thais name.You might be forced to sell it.  Same scenerio is if u own land in ur wifes name and ur married and she dies  The land goes to you the Fraang. Since a farang cannot own the land he has 6 months or even up to 1 year to sell it.

Word of advice if u live/invest in Asia, Dont invest more than u can afford to lose.  Goverments and laws/regulations change to often.

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## samlong

I am not sure if this has already been covered and I do not have time to read 100 posts. However, for a house and therefore possibly land also (?), you can only put it in the child's name if there no mortgages or loans outstanding on it. I bought my house in cash and put it 50:50 mrs/daughter and I am Power of Attorney for my daughter's 50% until she reaches ? age. I cannot remember now but I am pretty sure it is not 15, 20 sticks in my mind for some reason but I'll check on this and reply back. This was all explained to me by the Land Registry staff - In English - at the time I signed the papers. They wanted to confirm I understood the implications of what I was doing - unbelievable but encouraging!

It is worth checking up if this applies to land transfers also.

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## Phuketrichard

its 15 as thats the gae they acquire a id card and can sign things.
Note that you can NOT sell or transfer the land now till she is of age.

Did u get a lease back from ur ex and then register it and have your name on the nor sor sam ( or chanot) paper?  If not u should.

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## Tubtaywun

First post...here goes...

I have read every post on this thread and it has been a help to figure out my own situation.....I think!!!

My plan was to buy land in my wifes name and then rent the land from her....is that possible??? From what I have been reading it sounds safe enough unless they change the law.

I then wanted my wife to "will" the land to my two children one half thai the other full thai (anyone know the status of a thai child that is adopted by ferang?)

I was told that if the land is put into the childs name it cannot be sold until the child is 20... so i felt the other option suited me better... just in case there is a local person that we do not get on with and need to move... 

Has anyone done this?

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## dirtydog

Usufruct is what your looking for, 30 year lease.

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## the dogcatcher

> First post...here goes...
> 
> I have read every post on this thread and it has been a help to figure out my own situation.....I think!!!
> 
> My plan was to buy land in my wifes name and then rent the land from her....is that possible??? From what I have been reading it sounds safe enough unless they change the law.
> 
> I then wanted my wife to "will" the land to my two children one half thai the other full thai (anyone know the status of a thai child that is adopted by ferang?)
> 
> I was told that if the land is put into the childs name it cannot be sold until the child is 20... so i felt the other option suited me better... just in case there is a local person that we do not get on with and need to move... 
> ...


Better still is get a loan for the land in your wifes name and you service the loan.

If it goes tits you can walk leaving her with the loan.

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## Tubtaywun

Usufruct,

I had read about this a few months ago and it seemed to be the "in thing" a few years ago. I had read lately that there has been some kind of change in the law.... so it is not as reliable as it once was...

Has anyone heard anything about this......I will try and find the articles and post them...

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## Tubtaywun

Hey Dogcatcher,

Mmmm good idea but there is only one problem if you loan from a bank it costs money so the bank end up robbin you...

Wife may rob me for the lot..... once ....or the banks rob a little bit ...forever.

Tryin to stay away from banks....

Guess its gonna be the wife.

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## Phuketrichard

its not easy to get a loan unless u have a wp and /or ur wife has money and a good job. My friend got a loan to buy his home here in Phuket thru his wifes name but he had been putting his money thru her account for years and she has had a beach chair concession at Nai Harn for 20 years as well.

if they think the money came from u they can legally make u sell it , ( the give ya 5 months or a year) but seldom does this happen,.
Buy the land/house and get a registered 30 year lease and your name goes on the back of the land paper and she can not  sell or force u out. BUT if the relationship goes belly up she will ask for lots of $$ to allow u to sell it, (happens all the time).

for me, the way things are in this country ur better off renting :-)

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## Tubtaywun

> its not easy to get a loan unless u have a wp and /or ur wife has money and a good job. My friend got a loan to buy his home here in Phuket thru his wifes name but he had been putting his money thru her account for years and she has had a beach chair concession at Nai Harn for 20 years as well.
> 
> if they think the money came from u they can legally make u sell it , ( the give ya 5 months or a year) but seldom does this happen,.
> Buy the land/house and get a registered 30 year lease and your name goes on the back of the land paper and she can not sell or force u out. BUT if the relationship goes belly up she will ask for lots of $$ to allow u to sell it, (happens all the time).
> 
> for me, the way things are in this country ur better off renting :-)


 
"Beach chair consession" ? you mean she has been using the money for other than what was intended?

Asking me for money to sell it would be better than telling me to leave!!!!

I dunno what its like in all your countries but in Ireland if you finish a realationship with a family involved...they get to live in the house and you have to find other accomodation. You would then have to support the family and pay any loans etc...
As soon as we were married (4 Years ago) she became intitled to half of what I have anyway.

Yes, I want to rent and have my name on the chanote but I want my wife to own the land so we have something to leave the children. Like dogcatcher I want to be shure that my children have the land with no contest. I am 42 and want to be able to live there in relative peace without having to look over my shoulder every day.

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## Tubtaywun

I heard it was perfectly legal if you sign a paper gifting your wife the money and declareing that you do not make any claim on the land even under marriage laws....effectively saying that the land is hers outside the marriage as it would be if she owned it before the marriage.

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## Thomas

> <snip>you can only put it in the child's name if <snip>I am pretty sure it is not 15, 20 sticks in my mind for some reason <snip>This was all explained to me by the Land Registry staff - In English - at the time I signed the papers.<snip>


I have only read the last 2 pages of this thread but the extent of confusion and misinformation is scary. Land registry staff cannot be trusted to know the law and/or to follow the law. By law a minor of any age can be gifted land. Some land dept staff will put it in a baby's name, some will say the child must be old enough to sign, some will say 15, 18 whatever. Refer Section 1577 Thai Civil and Commercial Code. As some posters have hinted, there are pros and cons in going down this path - be sure you are aware of the implications before committing yourself.

To get a good plain-english rundown of this and all the other methods that foreigners can use in seeking to own, use and/or control Thai property have a look at the book "Your Investment Guide to Thailand" by Silkworm Books.

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## dirtydog

> By law a minor of any age can be gifted land.


saying this implies ownership, ownership implies legal responsibilty for the land and also rights on what can be done with the land, children do not have these rights.

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## Tubtaywun

I have ordered the book "Your Investment Guide to Thailand" by Silkworm Books. I will read it and see how it compares to other experiences on the forums.

650 Baht Thailand.... 35 euro europe.... I know the exchange rate is bad at the moment but not that bad.... approaching 42 today from 38 a few weeks ago.

Its good to get info from wherever it may be obtained coz there seems to be different interpretations of the law in different areas.

From what I have read the those laws can change frequently

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## Thomas

> Originally Posted by Thomas
> 
> By law a minor of any age can be gifted land.
> 
> 
> saying this implies ownership, ownership implies legal responsibilty for the land and also rights on what can be done with the land, children do not have these rights.


There are plenty of instances where ownership of an asset (by an adult or a minor) does not equal total control over an asset.

According to the law of Thailand (and not the law of Nakhon Nowhere Land Dept), minors can own land. Neither the minor, nor the guardian/s acting for the minor, can however exercise total control over the land ... for. e.g. selling the land or borrowing (legally) against the land. Some such actions require Court approval, the specific details of which are set out in the Thai Civil and Commercial Code.

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## Tubtaywun

> Originally Posted by dirtydog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Thomas
> ...


So that could be a good thing and take the "quick buck" out of the equation. Total control over the asset can mean insecurity for everyone. Maybe a chance to focus on using the land for what it should be used.............. growing food /living??

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## Phuketrichard

> Originally Posted by Phuketrichard
> 
> 
> its not easy to get a loan unless u have a wp and /or ur wife has money and a good job. My friend got a loan to buy his home here in Phuket thru his wifes name but he had been putting his money thru her account for years and she has had a beach chair concession at Nai Harn for 20 years as well.
> 
> if they think the money came from u they can legally make u sell it , ( the give ya 5 months or a year) but seldom does this happen,.
> Buy the land/house and get a registered 30 year lease and your name goes on the back of the land paper and she can not sell or force u out. BUT if the relationship goes belly up she will ask for lots of $$ to allow u to sell it, (happens all the time).
> 
> for me, the way things are in this country ur better off renting :-)
> ...


If u dont understand "beach chair connession" You have not been in Phuket or samui. These are the people that are leaglly entitled to set up beach chairs on the beach. She has had hers on Nai Harn for over 20 years and they set up a bank acont wa back and he funled money into her account.  So when the time came she showed she had money coming in yearly and they got the loan for 60% of the value of the land/house.

If your name is NOT on the back of the chanote and if you dont get it registered with in 2 years she can tell u to do whatever she wants to!!

Thailand is not Ireland the laws there dont mean shit here. 

If u buy the land and say its her money of course its hers; Why would u rent if your buying? 

The ONLY way you can live in peace and be protected by the law is if u register a lease between her ( the owner of the land) and you which is valid for 30 years.

Why are u all making this such a headache. Its faily simple. I did it, ( put the land in my daughters name with me as legal guardian, (appointed by court)  when she was 9) when she turned 15, got her id card and could legally do whatever she wished with the land , and i wnated to sell it so we could move elsewhere , we sold it and she signed the papers.

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## Tubtaywun

> If u dont understand "beach chair connession" You have not been in Phuket or samui.


I have been to Samui alright but have tended to stay on the south and west coasts so have not had the pleasure of staying on the busier beaches.... but now I do understand what you were sayin...




> Thailand is not Ireland the laws there dont mean shit here.


The point I was tryin to make was that even in western countries the person with the wealth going into the relationship is vunerable and can be ripped off by any person in any country.....if there is no pre-nup




> when she was 9


This was my preferred choice but my son is only 2 ...the thougthts of having to go to court if we want to sell within the next 13 years.....it still may be an option though.

But I think leasing the land off my wife is the best option......i will have to be on my best behavior for the last few years of the lease.... jez maybe I am being a bit optimistic thinkin that I will survive the 30 years....... :33:

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## the dogcatcher

Whooee, did I open a can of worms?

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## Tubtaywun

> Whooee, did I open a can of worms?


Hey Dogcatcher,

.....its the cans that have not been opened yet that worry me...thats why I am here to listen to others with more experience..... so I can learn to deal with a new brand of can.

Its a good informative thread and has made a confusing subject clearer to me

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## Phuketrichard

Best solution;

RENT and not worry, when Thailand goes belly up u pack ur bags and leave.
when u pass on, ( Die)  what's left of ur savings/invesmets leave to your son.

Other than that make sure you register your lease and your name is on the back of the land paper. Then your good for 30 years

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## the dogcatcher

That's whatI did.
The question of whether the owner will keep to their word is another matter.

We are good friends, how good?
Only time will tell.

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## Chairman Mao

Remember that in 30 yrs, it probably won't be her involved. Might well be her daughter dealing with your daughter. 

And her daughter presumably didn't promise anything. But has a nice house built on her land.

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## the dogcatcher

> Remember that in 30 yrs, it probably won't be her involved. Might well be her daughter dealing with your daughter. 
> 
> And her daughter presumably didn't promise anything. But has a nice house built on her land.


 
Thanks on the "nice house" CM. Thai building dictates it won't be nice in 30 years.

It will be Laosy dealing with a Thai that she has taken care of for long end of 5 years.
She is probably closer to the boy than his mother.
None the less I intend to approach the matter within the next 10 years.
I actually don't really mind too much about this. I have a total spend here of about 28K English , which is jack to me, but Laosy's daughter getting hold of this in 30 years would be nice.
She will be 37 by then, and hopefully with my influence 28K will be jack to her as well by then.

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## peter2076

my friend divorced his wife,bbought her out, and put his house in his kids' names ages 8 and 10. so it is possible.

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## Phuketrichard

First, there is no way, "HE" could have put the house/Land in his kids name as it was ,i assume, in his wifes name so she signed it over to the kids, but still he had to have been appointed as their guardian by the court ( which was probaly done at the same time as the divorce was finalized)  ( which i was when my daughter was 8) and now he can not sell or transfer the land till they reach age.

Always said it could be done.

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## William

> ...but still he had to have been appointed as their guardian *by the court* ( which was probaly done at the same time as the divorce was finalized)  ( which i was when my daughter was 8) and now he can not sell or transfer the land till they reach age.
> 
> Always said it could be done.


You don't need to be court appointed to be a guardian - this can be done by deed or contract. They court is required to "_act in the best interests of the child_", but this could be as simple as selling the property to pay school fees, so it's no guarantee of keeping a property.

As I've always said, spending money on property in Thailand should have the same approach as going to Las Vegas - don't do it if you're not willing to walk away with nothing

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## the dogcatcher

Yep, although I'm not going to walk away at all.
I will be driven, lying down in a black estate car.

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## Tubtaywun

> Yep, although I'm not going to walk away at all.
> I will be driven, lying down in a black estate car.


Hopfully no time soon dogcatcher

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## Phuketrichard

> Originally Posted by Phuketrichard
> 
> 
> ...but still he had to have been appointed as their guardian *by the court* ( which was probaly done at the same time as the divorce was finalized) ( which i was when my daughter was 8) and now he can not sell or transfer the land till they reach age.
> 
> Always said it could be done.
> 
> 
> *You don't need to be court appointed to be a guardian - this can be done by deed or contract*. They court is required to "_act in the best interests of the child_", but this could be as simple as selling the property to pay school fees, so it's no guarantee of keeping a property.
> ...


William, what do u base this on? Have u done it or gone thru the system ? I have and This is totaly wrong. You need to be the "legal" guardian of the child which can only be done buy the court,not by A DEED OR CONTRACT. Try and get a passport for ur 10 year old wiTHout her mom unless YOU have legal divorce papers and legal papers showing ur the dad and sole guardian.

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## William

> Originally Posted by William
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Phuketrichard
> ...


Never done it mate. But I was, at one time, a lawyer in Thailand for over 10 years and acted for a few. Things change

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## dirtydog

> Try and get a passport for ur 10 year old wiTHout her mom unless YOU have legal divorce papers and legal papers showing ur the dad and sole guardian.


Think you will find that law is applied in most countries.

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## Noirohl

To topic owners question.

in this case, its a heritage, right?
if its heritage, you can transfer it to your son

if it was for sale, the buying person has to be 18 or older.

if im not mistaken.

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## the dogcatcher

I think I will ask Buddha.
Didn't really expect this degree of "we don't know".
But good to know that "we don't know".

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## tsicar

> I think I will ask Buddha.
> Didn't really expect this degree of "we don't know".
> But good to know that "we don't know".


i think that the "i don't know " thing stems from tha fact that the thais themselved don't know.
it must be a nightmare being a lawyer in thailand, since the law seems very vague and open to interperetation in many respects, and there seems to be many grey areas.

my boys had land transferred into their names at ages 3 and 5 respectively and no guardianship questions were raised.
they have just had their names entered into another chanote doc., and no guardianship issue, once again.
they cannot dispose of the land until they come of age, but this can easily be circumvented with the consent of the court, i believe.
no plomplem.
another day, or a different deeds office, and it could be " can NOT!"
the visa thing is the same.  
confusion makes sense to the thais; they understand it and live with it..

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## Drummondbkk

> I'm going back to 2005/6 when i put the land in my daughters name, it was transferred from the mother in law to my daughter and i know that transferring land within the family there is a lower tax rate for transfers. Can't remember the rates though for the life of me but wasn't a lot.


 
If you bought land from within your Thai wife's family then it is not yours and never will be. Stays in the family as they expect. That's a very good deal for them selling 30 rai and still keeping the land - are they working it too?
That's exactly what Stephen Jones did in Kalasin. Now he is in sheltered accommodation in the UK.

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## DrAndy

> If you bought land from within your Thai wife's family then it is not yours and never will be


he said he put it in his daughters name, not his

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## dirtydog

> If you bought land from within your Thai wife's family


He didn't say he bought the land, he said he transferred the land ownership papers from the mother inlaw to his daughter.

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## superman

Transferal of name on Sor Por Gor land can only be done after the death of named on the title deeds and only then to a family member. I'm open to correction.
http://www.samuiforsale.com/index.ph...tle-deeds.html

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## tsicar

> Originally Posted by buriramboy
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
>  
> If you bought land from within your Thai wife's family then it is not yours and never will be. Stays in the family as they expect. That's a very good deal for them selling 30 rai and still keeping the land - are they working it too?
> That's exactly what Stephen Jones did in Kalasin. Now he is in sheltered accommodation in the UK.


whoever's name is registered on the chanote as the owner is the legal owner.
screw the wife's family.
there are dodgy ways to "own" land in thailand, and perhaps this is where some people slip up. (basically, lied to by the wife and her family and lose the lot once the goose stops laying the golden eggs)
..anyway, i suppose there is some truth in the "stays in the wife's family" statement, since farang cannot buy land and many end up buying in their wife's name, so i guess it DOES end up staying in the wife's family once the farang is out of the picture.

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## superman

I think farangs paying for land, purchased from the family, is the biggest scam. First of all the farang doesn't read enough Thai to know who's name is on the paper. He pays money out to the G/F's mother and he never knows if the names get changed. As I've said before "Transferal of name on Sor Por Gor land can only be done after the death of named on the title deeds and only then to a family member". The farang then lives on thinking his wife has bought the land. When in fact he's just made a large contribution to the family coffers.

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