#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > The Family Room >  >  A serious question for the longer term residents here in LOS.

## jandajoy

Whilst not wishing to make a mountain out of a mole hill, something kinda curious happened today.

It concerns me. Quite a bit.

We live in a small village in the north, at the base of the mountain range with Laos.

In my view it's as safe a place as you could wish for.

Everybody knows everybody, most are related.

In 3 years we've never had a problem, we rarely lock our doors.

Kids ride around visiting each others houses, playing in the fields, fishing and hunting for whatever. They all cycle or walk to school and back, unaccompanied with out a worry.

It's now the school holidays.

Today, the little lad we're caring for was out and about with his best mate, a lovely little girl aged 10. He's just 9.

Anyway, they met up with a monk.

This monk, allegedly lives alone up on the mountain. So said the monk.

For no obvious reason he gave the 2 kids 100 baht. To be shared 50/50 between them.

The young fella took the money and he and his friend reported the incident to my wife Joy.

We've since spoken with both the kids and they have nothing further to add.

They don't know the monk, though she thinks she might have seen him before.

Neither of the kids think they were asked for anything, promised or offered anything other than the money.

What would your reaction be?

Would this bother you?

I / would appreciate any comments, suggestion or thoughts.

Cheers

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## Thetyim

Could be nothing and could be sinister.

Don't frighten the kids into saying nothing to you should they meet the monk again.
Just tell them that they shouldn't take money from a monk and best to tell you if it happens again.

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## sabang

That is a very Thai style version of the 'never take sweets from a stranger' phobia.
Understand your concern as a parent, but there seems nothing really sinister here.
Maybe Joy can ask around on the jungle vines if the Monk is known of locally.
Or maybe even the kids are spinning a tale how they came across the money?

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## taxexile

as sabang said, ask around for info.

or go and see the monk, take him a yellow bucket thingy, thank him but ask him not to give money to your kids again.

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## Bangyai

Well.....about 20 years back when I was living in the boonies in a village 27 k from Khon Kaen, the resident monk found himself in hot water when it was discovered he had been giving cash and sweets to certain kids to play with his organ...the one without a keyboard that is. 

His replacement last 3 months because of an annoying habit of turning on the village tannoy at 3.00 a.m. and praying.

The next one was o.k. and lasted a year before getting caught shagging a hairdresser in the next village.

MORAL OF THE STORIES : An orange robe does not a monk make.

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## jandajoy

> Or maybe even the kids are spinning a tale how they came across the money?


We've sat and listened at length. There's no doubt in my mind that the offer of cash was unsolicited.

The 10 yr. old is born and bred in the village and she can't understand it.

She's as honest as the day is long, but can offer nothing more.

She thinks she's seen the monk before, but she's not sure.

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## Rural Surin

> That is a very Thai style version of the 'never take sweets from a stranger' phobia.
> Understand your concern as a parent, but there seems nothing really sinister here.
> Maybe Joy can ask around on the jungle vines if the Monk is known of locally.
> Or maybe even the kids are spinning a tale how they came across the money?


Ingrained and unjust suspicions. Much ado about nothing.....

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## Bettyboo

I'm sceptical meself.

People wearing orange here comes in all shapes and sizes; the idea that the monks are good, is just ridiculous...

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## jandajoy

> Ingrained and unjust suspicions. Much ado about nothing.....


You reckon it's just me externalizing 30 years of paranoia working with kids in the west then?

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## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Rural Surin
> 
> Ingrained and unjust suspicions. Much ado about nothing.....
> 
> 
> You reckon it's just me externalizing 30 years of paranoia working with kids in the west then?


Nailed it.

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## Bettyboo

No end of stuff to google on. Like other religion/instituitions, the robes DO attract sexual predators...

*Sexual abuse by Buddhist Monks* 

*I was a Tantric sex slave – June Campbell*
www.trimondi.de/EN/deba02.html*The Emperor's Tantric Robes - an Interview with June Campbell* 
www.anandainfo.com/tantric_robes.html 

*Kloset** Kalu, the Secret Lover*
www.american-buddha.com/kloset.kalu.htm

*Buddhist Clergy Sexual Abuse: Annotated Bibliography*
www.trimondi.de/EN/deba01.html 

Best-selling Buddhist Author accused of sexual abuse – Don Lattin 
www.american-buddha.com/sogyal.htm 

*Buddhist Sect Alarmed by Reports that Leader Kept His AIDS a Secret -* _John Dart_
www.aegis.com/news/lt/1989/LT890302.html

Anonymous letter to American Buddha
www.american-buddha.com/letter%20from%20anonymous.htm 

*Tibetan Buddhist Master infects Gay Disciples with HIV*
www.flameout.org/flameout/gurus/tibetan.html 

*Sonam** Kazi Family Values*
www.american-buddha.com/kazi.family.htm
www.american-buddha.com/bulletin_board/viewtopic.php?t=340

Echoes of Nalinika: Monk in the Dock – Enid Adam
www.american-buddha.com/echoes.nalinika.htm

Karaoke Monk booted out – BBC News Asia
www.american-buddha.com/karaoke.monk.htm 

Buddhism and Misogyny (historical overview) – V. and V. Trimondi
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-1-01.htm

The “Tantric Female Sacrifice" – V. and V. Trimondi
www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-1-03.htm

*Child-Monks, Child-Abuse*

*Beatings are nothing new*
*www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/2000/01/22/0000021071*

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth - Michael Parenti
www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html

*Child Sacrifice - Tibet's little boy 'monks'*
www.american-buddha.com/bulletin_board/viewtopic.php?t=444&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=a  sc&highlight

Monks arrested over sexual abuse of Sri Lankan war orphans
http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/bn/Qsrilanka-children-abuse.RHUz_DO8.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3175846.stm

Buddhism’s pedophile monks – Uwe Siemon-Netto 
www.american-buddha.com/pedophile.monks.htm

*Princeton Prof. says no to Sri Lanka Child Monks*
www.american-buddha.com/child.monks.htm

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## jandajoy

> Nailed it.



Sorry, I'm not confident with that appraisal.

After a long chat with Joy, discussing the pros and cons of not making problems  versus a kid being abused she's agreed that we might be right to ask a few questions, raise a few points, research a few opinions.

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## SEA Traveler

I think that one needs to take precautions in these changing times.  50 years ago back home, I recall things similarly to the way you described.  Doors left unopened, parents keeping an eye on all the neighborbood children, some strange or different in the neighborhood was watched to make sure that they were not one of the bad guys, and generally the neighborhood policed itself.  But beware of the neighborhood clergy.  As we know today, not of them were always on the side of purity and clean thoughts.  Best to error on the side of caution here JJ.  As noted by others above, the orang robe does not a monk make.  Search him out and question him.  Advise the local authorities if it seems he needs a watching over.

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## jandajoy

Thanks folks. 

All good input.

The latest update is, after a long conversation with Joy we agree, finally, that 

"not making a problem" is not an option.

The situation needs to be discussed within the community. 

On a friendly personal level.

Preferably, wives of police officers, Government officials etc etc should be involved in the discussion.

She's off doing this now.

It's agreed that shit happens and maybe it's a good idea for people to be responsible rather than avoid "problems".

A bit of a break through I think.

we'll see how it goes.

Cheerio.

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## Chairman Mao

> MORAL OF THE STORIES : An orange robe does not a monk make.


As they say, a monk is just a bloke wearing an orange robe and no underwear. 

Do you trust your kids with men who go around in robes with no underwear?

And shag the odd soi dog.

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## Nostradamus

> And shag the odd soi dog.


Strange recommendation.

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## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by Chairman Mao
> 
> And shag the odd soi dog.
> 
> 
> Strange recommendation.


Just change the _soi_ to _wat_ and you'll be right.

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## jandajoy

Interesting input from our good friend Smeg over on the other channel.

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## jandajoy

Well, folks are talking.

Kids are aware.

We'll see what happens.

Farang keeps low profile, as always.

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## The Ghost Of The Moog

If the kids are 10 and 9, then instructing them not to accept gifts from strangers and to keep away from this particular person should stick.

Not sure to what extent it needs to be discussed in the community, as whilst the guy has behaved inappropriately, he doesn't necessarily need to have his life ruined. I'm just thinking if something like this happened in the West, a leap to conclusions would happen without further ado, a reputation would be damaged for life and possibly a posse would be gotten up.

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## the dogcatcher

Was he wearing shoes?
No shoes prob ok, but still weird cos monks are money grabbing, lazy fucking freeloaders at best.
Shoes, call the police.

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## Aussie Tigger

As a parent here and in Australia the rules are the same for my kids "do not take gifts from strangers".As we all know now Religious ordes that were once thought to be above such things have finally been made to come out and confess to sexual activity with minors. There is no doubt that Monks, Ministers and Priests all have carnal desires and being as they are in generally trusted positions of respect and power they can easily influence young children.For sure you should speak to thsi Monk in the company of a respected village elder and let him know that you are a responsible and observant parent.

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## billy the kid

Grooming,, JJ , may be a monk, may not be a monk.
should check him out.
'why' would someone give kids 100 baht.

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by Rural Surin
> 
> Ingrained and unjust suspicions. Much ado about nothing.....
> 
> 
> You reckon it's just me externalizing 30 years of paranoia working with kids in the west then?


 
No.  Its just RS being a prick yet again.

From the rest of the thread, looks like you sorted it the right way  - let the village take care of it.  If it was innocent, the monk should have known better - which makes me suspect it was not.  Thailand is no stranger to the abuse of kids, and monks are certainly not all as pure as the driven snow.

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## keda

Could of course be any of many things, mostly not sinister though some on here have automatically assumed the worst.

You didn't mention what time of day the kids met the monk. Rural/forest/mountain monks 'usually' come out in the morning for takbaht and then return to their temple unless they have other business to attend to, which may be many and varied because there are other things to attend to at a temple aside from prayer, and also includes the occasional late takbaht. 

Your village probably has a local temple, most if not all rural villages do, and those near the mountains may also have a mountain temple to service. If as you say he is a loner, then it may be a hut setup rather than a formal temple or shrine.

I would get the mrs to donate 100 bt to the head guy (she knows him, and yes they are accessible) at your village temple, not anonymously into the box, and to make sure to mention to him that a mountain monk gave it to your kid.

These folks know their own, and you can probably leave it to him from there.

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## Thetyim

> I would get the mrs to donate 100 bt to the head guy (she knows him, and yes they are accessible) at your village temple, not anonymously into the box, and to make sure to mention to him that a mountain monk gave it to your kid.


Good suggestion

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## Travelmate

Jeez what all the fuss about??
Nothing...

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## good2bhappy

ask questions
be vigilant
tell the kids to be wary and report
but don't frighten them

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## Davis Knowlton

I think you handled it appropriately. Might be nothing, but it is a bit strange. There is a house across the street and down a bit inhabited by priests-in-training (many of them foreigners here in the Philippines to learn both English and priest stuff). You see them wandering around the neighborhood with their priest books mumbling to themselves. They always want to chat with my kids when the twins are out biking around. My kids have been instructed (by the Missus) to be polite and say hello, and then to keep on biking. Myself, I think they are just bored shitless, but I don't disagree; I don't like adults they don't know talking to my kids, much less those in easy-to-fool-ya uniforms - like priests, monks, police and the like. Better safe than wondering why you never thought to do something.......

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## Pol the Pot

I don't trust any of these orange robed fuckers.

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## the dogcatcher

I know a guy was in the local wat 20 years, got out last year.
Now he's a hard drinking, hard fucking, gambling, ganja smoking thief.
Making up for lost time maybe.
Anyhow, get 100 spot out of a monk must take some doing.
Do the kids have Lebanese blood by any chance?

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## Nostradamus

Send the kids round again JJ, and tell them not to come back empty handed.

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## DrAndy

> Best to error on the side of caution here JJ.





> The latest update is, after a long conversation with Joy we agree, finally, that "not making a problem" is not an option. The situation needs to be discussed within the community. On a friendly personal level. Preferably, wives of police officers, Government officials etc etc should be involved in the discussion. She's off doing this now. It's agreed that shit happens and maybe it's a good idea for people to be responsible rather than avoid "problems". A bit of a break through I think.


although that seems like overkill when nothing has happened

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by SEA Traveler
> 
> Best to error on the side of caution here JJ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nothing has been kown to happen as yet.  I assume that JJs kids are not the only ones in the district.

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## DrAndy

and give the guy a bad name for being generous?

just a few chats with other parents would be enough

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## jandajoy

> I would get the mrs to donate 100 bt to the head guy (she knows him, and yes they are accessible) at your village temple, not anonymously into the box, and to make sure to mention to him that a mountain monk gave it to your kid.  These folks know their own, and you can probably leave it to him from there.




Very good Keda.

A similar route suggested by another bloke I respect on the other board.

Yes, it's the plan.

Tomorrow  Joy will go to visit the boss monk (whom she knows) with the 2 kids in tow.

They, the kids, will give the boss monk 100bht and Joy will explain why.

Should the boss monk wish to talk to the kids whilst Joy is there, no worries.

They'll then leave.

People in the village will know exactly what has been done and we'll leave it there.

Thanks one and all for your input, advice and suggestions. 

sometimes this place is a life saver.

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## Aussie Tigger

My wifes father was a  monk for ten years and was privvy to many things that go on by some of the monks.Monks do not give 100baht away for nothing is her experienced opinion. It is a parents responsibility to ensure they provide the best safety possible for their kids. Anyone who takes this situation lightly is either not a parent or is at best a most ir-responsible one.

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## jandajoy

> My wifes father was a monk for ten years and was privvy to many things that go on by some of the monks.Monks do not give 100baht away for nothing is her experienced opinion. It is a parents responsibility to ensure they provide the best safety possible for their kids. Anyone who takes this situation lightly is either not a parent or is at best a most ir-responsible one.



Pretty much an international view I'd have thought. 

No great insights there.



 :mid:

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## sunsetter

> Grooming,, JJ , may be a monk, may not be a monk.
> should check him out.
> 'why' would someone give kids 100 baht.


 
ive done it before, on kids day, nothing sinister in that, lil lad from the soi in bkk where i stay, so its not all sinister


jj's situation is  abit different though, must admit

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## jandajoy

For those that are interested, an up date.

The kids and wife met with boss monk this morning. They had a nice chat with the old boy. The 100 baht was given to him to do with as he will and he's said that he'll look into the situation.

He reaffirmed to the the 2 kids that it's not smart to accept gifts from strangers. The kids were suitably impressed.

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## sabaii sabaii

That would have me worried being a parent myself.

Get the kids a mobile phone if they aint got one to keep your mind at ease

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## jandajoy

> Get the kids a mobile phone if they aint got one to keep your mind at ease


Considered that but we reckon the village grapevine will probably work better.

Plus, of course, the fact that a mobile phone would last about 5 minutes.    :Smile:

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