#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Learn Thai Language >  >  The best way to learn Isaan thai

## gymboy34

not found hardly any useful material to aid learning essan thai language.
anybody know of any on-line material
or talking dictianary english-thai -(and) essan.
any help appreciated
cheers

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## FarangRed

Go and live there in sticky rice land

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## WujouMao

Well 1st things 1st, its Isan not 'Essan'.

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## FarangRed

upto you^

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## can123

And, they speak Laotian, the language of Laos.

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## Bettyboo

^ yes they do, in Laos...

Don't you start getting all silly again Can! 

I went to Laos with a couple of Thai friends, they spoke a dialect of Issan aswellas Central Thai, said they could speak Laos no problem, could they fuk... The Laotians had to speak Thai with them (they pick it up off TV which is mostly Thai, or was at that time).

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## Ceburat1

Most words in Issan and Lao are the same. Even with the differences they can both understand each other.  My wife was born in Kemerrat by the river and learned Bangkok Thai from the family and Lao and Issan out side of the house and in school.  I have traveled all over Laos and Thailand with my wife and she just jabbers on and on and on...hell do they every stop for a breath.

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## Bettyboo

^ her dialect, I don't doubt it (right on the border).

Many Issan dialects (I'm not sure exactly, but there's probably 4 or 5 quite distinct Issan dialects) are not as close to Laos as many folks seem to believe... The Thais I went with were from the Korat area, and they couldn't speak or understand Laos.

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## Borey the Bald

The language spoken in upper Isaan  (Udon, Nong Khai, Sakon Nakhon, NKP) is Lao.  My wife has no difficulty speaking to native Laotians, but the further south we go in Thailand, the more difficulty she has communicating.  She is very uncomfortable speaking in Bangkok since her Thai is only what she learned in school.  The language used in Khorat is significantly different from upper (northern) Isaan.  

In the US my wife often is called on to translate English to Laotian for immigrant co-workers.

She does have trouble communicating with the Hmong, but then so do the native Laotians.

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## Bettyboo

^ good post, makes sense.

Any idea of the diffeent dialect names? Just out of interest.

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## Borey the Bald

^I've never seen anything written about Isaan dialects.  I suppose something must exist at one of the Thai universities.

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## Ceburat1

> ^ her dialect, I don't doubt it (right on the border).
> 
> Many Issan dialects (I'm not sure exactly, but there's probably 4 or 5 quite distinct Issan dialects) are not as close to Laos as many folks seem to believe... The Thais I went with were from the Korat area, and they couldn't speak or understand Laos.



My wife has lived in Bangkok and Korat for the last 25 years, about half and half.  There is Issan and there is also a Korat Thai - different from Issan or standard Thai.  She speaks it also. It sounds like someome singing with a mouth full of shit and out of tune to boot.

To the OP - Do as I am doing - learn standard Thai and forget all of the dialects. Standard/Bangkok Thai will serve you better.

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## nigelandjan

M m m m manuuuuuu

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## nigelandjan

M m m m m manleaaw

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## can123

> ^ yes they do, in Laos...
> 
> Don't you start getting all silly again Can! 
> 
> I went to Laos with a couple of Thai friends, they spoke a dialect of Issan aswellas Central Thai, said they could speak Laos no problem, could they fuk... The Laotians had to speak Thai with them (they pick it up off TV which is mostly Thai, or was at that time).


I am just a beginner in the "being silly stakes". How on earth didn't you know that Laotian was spoken "up North" ? Are you sure you are not in Malaysia ?

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## Mousepad

There is no such thing as truly Isaan Thai. 

Depending on your location there will be a mixture of Thai/Laos/Khmer etc and although similar, some words will be similair but there is also a fairly big regional difference. Different words/different pronunciation/meanings etc etc.

Personally, I'd make sure you have a very good grasp of 'Central Thai' before you even venture into learning any regional nuances.

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## Dan

> I'd make sure you have a very good grasp of 'Central Thai' before you even venture into learning any regional nuances.


I'd agree with that but if you want to study Isaan Thai, Amazon lists some books.

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## peterpan

> To the OP - Do as I am doing - learn standard Thai and forget all of the dialects. Standard/Bangkok Thai will serve you better.


  Best advice here, why would you want to learn a guttural bastard language beats me.  
At my daughters school (in Udon) they forbid esarn being spoken as I do in the house.

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## liveinlos

My kid speaks Isan and Thai; lucky little guy. Never seen any books though have to learn it from a native or live there or both

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## good2bhappy

Get a book on Laoatian
or live there

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## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> ^ yes they do, in Laos...
> 
> Don't you start getting all silly again Can! 
> 
> I went to Laos with a couple of Thai friends, they spoke a dialect of Issan aswellas Central Thai, said they could speak Laos no problem, could they fuk... The Laotians had to speak Thai with them (they pick it up off TV which is mostly Thai, or was at that time).
> 
> ...


I'll give you credit for being a little bit right...  :Smile: 

Actually, I think that some folks, whilst I don't doubt there experiences, have things the wrong way round. The way I understand it, Laos is a version of Tai rather than the other way around, but that's just playing semantics really...

'Up North' - depends where you are talking about. Up North to the left, up North centrally and up North to the right probably speak different dialects, but even within the same province you may have 4 or 5 dialects/languages; a couple of Issan dialects, some hilltribe 'languages' and some Cambo/Laos based languages.

As stated above, it's hard to get correct information, one of the propaganda efforts since the 1930's, and a major one at that, has been to promote Central Thai and marginalize other dialects and 'languages'.

It's an interesting area because what is Issan; what is Thai; What is a dialect or language is quite unclear in Thailand. I've seen some studies, but they've been done by Bangkok universities and show strong biases towards Central Thai which are clearly not historically true.

There must be a good book about it somewhere; possibly banned...

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## Bettyboo

> Best advice here, why would you want to learn a guttural bastard language beats me. At my daughters school (in Udon) they forbid esarn being spoken as I do in the house.


Mate, can't believe you wrote that... Cultural imperialism at best, at worst, well, cultural genecide...

How's about, because standard English (BBC English/RP) is dominant, that we ban Scouse, Brommy, Scots, Geordie (actually that's not a bad idea...), Welsh, etc, even though they are often historically correct whereas standard BBC English is often the bastard that uses non-standard grammar/pronunciation, unduely influenced by the truly bastard French amongst others...

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## alwarner

Just learn Thai and then you'll have a good grounding for the rest of the country. They'll understand you and you can pick up a few bits of Issan as you go along. That said, the fuckers code-switch all the time anyway so even if you learnt Laos you'd probably still be lost.

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## helge

> why would you want to learn a guttural bastard language beats me.


Cause the people you live amongst speak that ?

Yes you can communicate in Thai, but you can't listen in on a conversation, cause they speak Lao here (KK)

And it is easier to learn...for me anyway

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## pescator

> Just learn Thai and then you'll have a good grounding for the rest of the country. They'll understand you and you can pick up a few bits of Issan as you go along..


Totally agree.

Speaking only Lao/Issan could prove rather counter productive when spoken to central thai speakers.

Either they will piss their pants while laughing at the hillbilly farang or a more likey scenario, be pissed of that you consider them to be Issan.
Many will also pretend not to understand. And some will prolly not understand.

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## Dan

^ Another reason: I had a look around on the internet and there is material available but it's all aimed at speakers of central Thai who want to learn Isaan (for example https://www.facebook.com/pages/%E0%B...83066325047541). There's plenty more like this, but you've got to crack central Thai before you can use it.

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## peterpan

> Mate, can't believe you wrote that... Cultural imperialism at best, at worst, well, cultural genecide...


cultural genocide, bit strong eh?
 nothing like that, I  just want to give them the skills to best shot at life and they won't achieve that speaking yokel language.

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## Dan

It's not a 'yokel' language (nor could it be, because there's no such thing) and it's not either/or; bilingualism is perfectly normal.

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## Bangyai

When in doubt , You Tube nearly always comes to the rescue :











Of course, you can have too much of a good thing

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## Mr Orange

Why the fok would you want to learn Issan Thai; the mind boggles?  A few bits here and there for a laugh when up that way or if you lived in laos it might help.

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## Spin

> It's not a 'yokel' language (nor could it be, because there's no such thing)


It's a primitive dialect, an audible signature of ones low-class if you like.

I'm not surprised Peter doesn't want his kids to speak it, damn, I know Thai couples who have banned their kids from using any words they had picked up at school around the house.

It's bannork, basically.

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## Marmite the Dog

> The language spoken in upper Isaan (Udon, Nong Khai, Sakon Nakhon, NKP) is Lao.


Not exactly. Similar, but different.

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## Dan

> It's a primitive dialect, an audible signature of ones low-class if you like.


It's no more primitive, or whatever the opposite is (complex? sophisticated?), than central Thai. In fact, you'd be pretty hard pushed to argue that any language, other perhaps than serious outliers like Piraha, is primitive. What there is, though, is prejudice and class privilege and stupidity and petit bourgeois aspiration, all of which are found in abundance nearly anywhere one looks.

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## Spin

> It's no more primitive, or whatever the opposite is (complex? sophisticated?), than central Thai


Agreed, central Thai is just as shit.

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## can123

> Originally Posted by Dan
> 
> It's no more primitive, or whatever the opposite is (complex? sophisticated?), than central Thai
> 
> 
> Agreed, central Thai is just as shit.


You have a way with words.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> Mate, can't believe you wrote that... Cultural imperialism at best, at worst, well, cultural genecide...
> 
> 
> 
> cultural genocide, bit strong eh?
>  nothing like that, I  just want to give them the skills to best shot at life and they won't achieve that speaking yokel language.


Indeed. Any responsible parent would try to prevent their kids talking like a spasticated monkey.

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## Borey the Bald

> Originally Posted by Borey the Bald
> 
> The language spoken in upper Isaan (Udon, Nong Khai, Sakon Nakhon, NKP) is Lao.
> 
> 
> Not exactly. Similar, but different.



 I think you have missed the point of much of what has been written here.   


 Languages are not monoliths.  The Vietnamese language spoken in Hanoi is totally different from that spoken in Ho Chi Minh City.  The Lao language spoken in Vientiane is greatly different from that spoken in Pak Xe.  The Isaan language spoken in Sakon Nakhon is significantly different from that spoken in Khorat.  The language spoken in my wife's village is identical to the Laotian language spoken 20 miles away in Laos.  Most of her ancestors (along with many others) migrated from Laos within the last century.  A native Laotian can not tell from her speech that she was born in Thailand.  Of course, if she were in Luang Prabang, they would know that she wasn't from around there.


 Even with modern communications and education that have attempted to make languages like Thai, Lao and Vietnamese into something of a standard, there are still large variations.  But, of course there is no such thing as a standard for the Isaan language,  so I presume the variation to be much greater.

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## Marmite the Dog

> I think you have missed the point of much of what has been written here.


I didn't read most of what has been written here. I live in Udon and the language is a mix of Laos & Thai. In the village it's a local dialect that owes more to Laos than Thai but has some tribal grunts in there as well.

Of course, you may know more than me about it seeing as you live in the US.

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## Borey the Bald

> Originally Posted by Borey the Bald
> 
> I think you have missed the point of much of what has been written here.
> 
> 
> I didn't read most of what has been written here. I live in Udon and the language is a mix of Laos & Thai. In the village it's a local dialect that owes more to Laos than Thai but has some tribal grunts in there as well.


What you describe is what I and other posters were pointing out to the OP.  Isaan is not a language where he can find a standardized text to study from.  It is a local dialect that varies greatly across the NE.

My statement that the language spoken in Upper Isaan is Lao was certainly an over-generalization.  That is the case in my wife's village, but a short distance away that may not be the case.

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## gymboy34

> Just learn Thai and then you'll have a good grounding for the rest of the country. They'll understand you and you can pick up a few bits of Issan as you go along. That said, the fuckers code-switch all the time anyway so even if you learnt Laos you'd probably still be lost.


just learn thai is good enuf if you frequent the central region of thailand.
but im in the rice fields in the NE of thailand.

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## Marmite the Dog

I speak my version of Central Thai here in Udon and am usually understood. I speak to the family in the village and am also understood. I think that unless you're in some remote corner of Isaan, 'normal' Thai will suffice.

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## pescator

> Originally Posted by Borey the Bald
> 
> The language spoken in upper Isaan (Udon, Nong Khai, Sakon Nakhon, NKP) is Lao.
> 
> 
> Not exactly. Similar, but different.


As the thais themselves so eloquently phrase it:

Same, same, but different...

My inlaws were old, but they understood central thai perfectly well. Although they had never visited the central regions.
Not surprisingly, they had been brainwashed by the TV.
They would never reply to me in central thai, but they understood it perfectly well.

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## isanmick

I learn Thai and along the way you pick up Isan words that substitutes for the thai words example,                                                  thai ; sabai dee mai  -  isan : sabai dee baw
        a-roy              -          sap
        a-roy mai        -          sap baw
        mai bpen rai    -          baw bpen yung
I find I learn more in the village (especially having a beer at the shop) in a hour than I would in week from a book.

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## spliff

^ Key tak

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## jack swelters

I travel by taxi in BKK each evening, maybe 20 minutes after the pub when I'm feeling relaxed. I find Thai taxi drivers are 90 percent great guys and like to talk. I have improved my fluency a good deal from these 50 baht lessons with the added benefit of getting home at the same time. You have to supplement with vocab study though.

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## Seekingasylum

In my experience there is little to be gained from redundant conversation with taxi drivers. One tries to be polite but inevitably it resolves to vacuous mundanity or, heaven forbid, affords the driver with an opportunity to mount a hobby horse as he mercilessly exploits a captive audience.

An inability to speak or understand Thai is a blessing here in that one has an unassailable defence to the unwanted intrusion of such a conversation although occasionally I do strike unlucky and get one with reasonable English but that is mercifully rare.

Singapore is quite wonderful in that instructions are fully understood and the drivers do not speak unless spoken to. Paradise found albeit at too expensive a price.

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## alwarner

> Originally Posted by alwarner
> 
> 
> Just learn Thai and then you'll have a good grounding for the rest of the country. They'll understand you and you can pick up a few bits of Issan as you go along. That said, the fuckers code-switch all the time anyway so even if you learnt Laos you'd probably still be lost.
> 
> 
> just learn thai is good enuf if you frequent the central region of thailand.
> but im in the rice fields in the NE of thailand.


I'm in Issan.  My Thai is understood well enough. Any misunderstandings are down to me pronouncing things wrong.  I guess your problem could be that they understand you (speaking Thai) but you don't understand the answers (gibberish)??  It does happen a bit.

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## jack swelters

> In my experience there is little to be gained from redundant conversation with taxi drivers. One tries to be polite but inevitably it resolves to vacuous mundanity ....


Especially little to be gained if you are delivering an english monologue which the Thai driver doesn't understand.

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## skyywalker

If you are living in, or planning to move to Isaan, you have every reason to learn the Isaan dialect spoken in the area.  As previously mentioned, if you speak "proper Thai" (with correct tones) in Northeast, Thailand, you will be understood, but when it comes to you understanding them...NOPE!

There are good videos on YouTube like above.  Also, this website may help: Women Learning Thai and some men too ;-) » Learn Thai via Skype: Locating Teachers and Schools

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## jack swelters

> Originally Posted by Ceburat1
> 
> 
> To the OP - Do as I am doing - learn standard Thai and forget all of the dialects. Standard/Bangkok Thai will serve you better.
> 
> 
>   Best advice here, why would you want to learn a guttural bastard language beats me.  
> At my daughters school (in Udon) they forbid esarn being spoken as I do in the house.



My, aren't you fancy! What else do you forbid?

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## peterpan

many things that aren't good for them. sweets and religion to name two.

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## CaptainNemo

^
Seconded, amongst hiso, normal Thais just find it amusing... especially if you can "wao Lao dudu"  etc...

I learnt Lao before Thai, and habitually come out with "baw ben nyang" instead of "mai ben rai", and at best, it gets a surprised giggle; at worst when in the UK amongst Chinese fake Thai hiso students, sneers and ostracisation.
One porker at one uni came out with "oh, i think you made a funny noise, maybe you did say thai correctly" - and yes they pretend they can't understand Lao, but they almost all can.
To them, it equates to low class trash, bumpkins, hookers, crims, poor people etc...  when in reality, Laos and Isan Lao are arguably the only authentic Thais in Thailand - Thai being a completely constructed and artificial identity - and successful marketing brand.

If you want a force multiplier to a hiso Chink Thai when in the UK, try asking them in Lao if they want to go to a cheaper restaurant  :Very Happy: 
(they're not all bad, I have a couple of good chinkthai chums ;p)

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## CaptainNemo

> I went to Laos with a couple of Thai friends, they spoke a dialect of  Issan aswellas Central Thai, said they could speak Lao no problem,  could they fuk... The Laos had to speak Thai with them (they pick it  up off TV which is mostly Thai, or was at that time).


As with Lanna (northern dialiects) There are some strains of Lao in parts of Lao that get very dialectal... I remember once being at a party in the UK, and some lad was chewing his jaw and a weird sound was coming out that completely lacked consonants... I leant over to him, and in all sincerity said: "So how long have you been in our country?"
It turned out, he was from Essex, and that southern apelike grunting and ullulating was allegedly English.

Laotian is not a word, they are Lao, and the country is called Laos because on a map someone once wrote the plural of Lao, as in more than one Lao lives here.

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## can123

> Laotian is not a word, they are Lao, and the country is called Laos because on a map someone once wrote the plural of Lao, as in more than one Lao lives here.


It is the adjective to show that something/somebody is from Laos. As such it can be used to call inhabitants Laotians.

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## toddaniels

Well, last time I checked (which I do periodically) no matter where a Thai is from in this country, IF they went to school even a single day, they were taught the central Thai dialect called ภาษากลาง in Thai. It's the ONLY government approved version of Thai out there. It's used on ALL the television stations, ALL the FM radio stations, spoken in all the schools and the government offices thru out the country.

  When I first moved here I traveled from Chiang Rai to Hat Yai, Kanchanaburi to Chantaburi, Tak to Trang and any place in between which caught my fancy. EVERY single Thai understood the horrifically off-toned Central Thai I spoke and responded in kind to me. 

  Now remember Issan Thai is just a dialect of Thai which incorporates more Laotian words and adopts the intonation of the Lao language. Still it's written in Thai script and not in Lao script, it's just not the "government approved version". 

  Personally I can't see a single reason even for a foreigner living in a one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere to learn Issan Thai. Depending on where you are; Nakhon Ratchasima, Surin, Nong Khai, Buriram, Yasothon, etc the Issan dialect is notably different. This makes the Issan language a "one trick pony" as far as usefulness in communicating to Thais in what passes for their language when foreigners open their mouths. ..

  Granted population density wise, I'd imagine 2 out of 3 Thais (or about 60%) can trace their roots to somewhere in Issan, but that doesn't mean they're "pounding their chests about this fact". The incredible racism and stereotyping which goes on here as far as Thai against Thai depending on place of birth, skin tone, educational background is horrific, and appalling at the same time.  I don't think any Issan-ites who're in Bangkok would speak anything but Bangkok Thai except to their closest friends. Oh and contrary to popular belief; Bangkok Thai isnt Central Thai either, but also a slightly different dialect too.  

  Even when they're speaking Bangkok Thai, any Thai they talk to will know where they grew up by their accent. Thais are experts in "accent identification" and after just a few sentences in Central Thai most Thais can say almost to the province and sometimes to the area in that province where a person grew up. I hafta laugh when foreigners say they speak Thai "just like a Thai", because every Thai they talk to knows within seconds, they're a non-native language speaker. However, that's another topic entirely.

  To me, Central Thai is the one to know, it can be used country wide, is universally understood and is the one foreigners can get the most mileage outta here as far as a tool for communicating to the ever smiling, yet diminutive inhabitants here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". 

  Still, if you're hell-bent on learning Issan Thai; I mean, who am I to "piss in your cereal"? At the end of the day, its what ever floats your boat, because my boat floats just fine, thanx.

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## Panty Hamster

> Personally I can't see a single reason even for a foreigner living in a one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere to learn Issan Thai.


Yes, understanding what people around you are saying is SO overrated. Just stare vacantly out the window while they talk. Remember to blink occasionally, your eyes will dry out if you don't. Every so often lick your lips, too. They'll get dry if you don't.




> Depending on where you are the Issan dialect is notably different. This makes the Issan “language a "one trick pony" as far as usefulness in communicating to Thais in what passes for their language when foreigners open their mouths.


It's _slightly_ different. People from Korat and Udon understand each other 98% of the time. No different than Boston and Atlanta. They don't expect foreigners to speak their language perfectly and they're almost never disappointed.




> I don't think any Issan-ites who're in Bangkok would speak anything but Bangkok Thai except to their closest friends.


You would be wrong. Laborers in Bangkok don't make an effort to "hide" where they're from, they wear their language and food as a badge of honor -- in defiance. Educated Isaan migrants to Bangkok will do anything, including changing their name, and daily bleach baths, to mask their identity.




> To me, Central Thai is the one to know, it can be used country wide, is universally understood and is the one foreigners can get the most mileage outta here.


Standard Thai is a decent fallback, I don't disagree. But if you live in Isaan, have a house and family there, have lived there for 20 years and only occasionally  spend much time in Bangkok, what's the point in speaking differently than everyone around you?

Different strokes...  :tieme:

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## toddaniels

To the poster known as "Panty Hamster":
 Dunno about the laborers where you are in Bangkok, but there are three BIG buildings going up near me and the workers livin' on site in those tin shacks sure AIN'T Thai, they're Burmese or Cambodian. The Thai supervisors show up early in the morning.  Now I have seen some Thais in the back of trucks wearin' construction shirts, being carted off somewhere but they don't exactly appear to be "wearin' their language or their preference for food as a badge of honor" <- really though, I'll give you points for makin' me laugh.

  Perhaps there's something to be said if a foreigner is gonna stay in some one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere, as far as speaking or at least understanding the local dialect. Interestingly enough, when I visited my Thai friends family in rural Ubon Ratchathani, I told him his family had to speak Central Thai or English around me. I didn't get a single objection from anyone, although no one spoke what passes for engrish here, at least it was Central Thai, and that was fine for me. So I still stand by my observation that nearly every Thai in this country can speak and understand Central Thai just fine IF you compel them to. .

  I guess I should revise my statement to say, if you plan on actually traveling around the country and interacting with Thais; the language which will give you the most mileage would be Central Thai.

BACK ON-TOPIC:
  Still the topic of this thread was learning Issan Thai, so in reply to that query, there are a few books out on the subject. Benjawan Becker has a small booklet and C/D called Northeastern Thai, and I think there's a company called "It's for Thai" which has a set of books which teach "common Issan" (if there is such a thing).  

  Don't get me wrong or mis-remember what I said; I don't look down on Issan Thais any more or any less than I look down on any Thai here. I'm an equal opportunity discriminator in that regard.  I routinely discriminate against people without much regard for race creed or color. 100% American; born, bred and corn fed, that's me!

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## Panty Hamster

> Don't get me wrong or mis-remember what I said; I don't look down on  Issan Thais any more or any less than I look down on any Thai here. I'm  an equal opportunity discriminator in that regard.  I routinely  discriminate against people without much regard for race creed or color.  100% American; born, bred and corn fed, that's me!


Learning Thai language is good. Learning to live in Thailand is great. They're not the same. Your Thai "language" will always suffer if you look at those you're speaking with as inferior. Yes, it's that simple.

If you want to be a "highly-educated, I know better than you cow-humping kunts, but I can't discern a "kaw-kai from a kaw-kwai," cause I'm a fucking retard, well -- good luck to you mate.

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## toddaniels

Well, that was more than a little "coarse" doncha think? I never said I was "highly educated" although I freely admit that Im highly opinionated, and btw I can tell a ก from a ค (and a ส from a ซ, a ศ and a ษ too, but so what :mid: )         

  I never said I looked at the Thais as inferior, but said I discriminate against EVERYONE EQUALLY, so don't make this about the Thais just because I choose to live here. It's my experience stupidity knows no race, has no borders or boundaries, and no country has the market cornered on it. I've met stupid people in every country I've lived in so far.  

  Oh, and FWIW: I wouldn't have invested nearly 4 years of learning to speak/understand, read/write & type Thai if I didn't have a place in my heart for the Thais (even if it is just a very small place). 

  I initially undertook learning Thai because I realized 63+ million people in the country seemed to speak/understand Thai just fine, and they all couldn't be smarter than me, (some sure but not every last one of these people). Now some might interpret that as I learned Thai to spite the Thais, but I like to think I learned Thai in spite of the Thais.  Learning to communicate with them effectively in Thai cut down on the time it takes me to get things accomplished here. It's been an uphill battle, but for me, one that was certainly well worth it. 

  I'll also add that I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so if I can learn to speak something which resembles Thai close enough so that the Thais respond in kind, just about anyone who's willing to invest the time can too. Stop makin' excuses, and get on with learning the language. ..

Ease up there "Panty Hamster", I ain't casting aspersions at you or your Thai language ability, what would possess you to do that to me?  Im truly sorry if Im not a card carrying member of the sheep-like, sock puppet, wanna-b-thai brigade of foreigners so typical here in Thailand. I tend to see things as they are and I lost my rose colored glasses a LONG time ago. Still I like living here, so go figure. :Smile:

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## pescator

> Perhaps there's something to be said if a foreigner is gonna stay in some one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere, as far as speaking or at least understanding the local dialect. Interestingly enough, when I visited my Thai friends family in rural Ubon Ratchathani, I told him his family had to speak Central Thai or English around me. I didn't get a single objection from anyone, although no one spoke what passes for engrish here, at least it was Central Thai, and that was fine for me. So I still stand by my observation that nearly every Thai in this country can speak and understand Central Thai just fine IF you compel them to. .


From my observation you are right.
However, there is a difference between being able to and wanting to.
Nobody in "my" village in Nakhon upcountry ever spoke central thai to me even though I was speaking central thai to them.
In hindsight, that was not entirely true. Every once in a while if I were in private they would speak central thai to me.
My wife offered this explanation: they feel shy to speak central thai when they are in their local community. Dunno.

But after a while it got a bit awkward, so i switched to the local lingo (to the best of my ability anyway)
It was hugely appreciated that a foreigner did this effort and I found the response very rewarding and encouraging.

And of course, if one meets a former Isaan village dweller living outside of Isaan and speaks any Isaan dialect to them, it invariably brings a huge smile on their faces.

2 days ago, I spend 6 hours in a karaoke joint in Samut Prakarn.
The owners were from Sakon, my previous residence.
They were thrilled that I spoke their dialect.
It was my last night out before leaving for farangland, so I had no problems treating the entire staff (4 persons) for drinks and snacks.
They would not hear of it, we pay 50/50.
It became a big night out and I got rather shitfaced before heading home in the wee hours.
But true to their word, we shared the bill.

So for many reasons, I think it is worthwhile to learn an Isaan dialect.

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## Panty Hamster

> I visited my Thai friends family in rural Ubon Ratchathani, I told him  his family had to speak Central Thai or English around me.


Really? You travel half way around the globe, into a rural village, and tell people how they should speak. 

I don't ... I really ... I have no words.

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## can123

> Really? You travel half way around the globe, into a rural village, and tell people how they should speak. 
> 
> I don't ... I really ... I have no words.


Well, it's better to do that than shoot them or drop napalm on them, isn't it ?

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## Panty Hamster

^ Obsess much? You've gotten quite surly lately.

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## beerlaodrinker

Speaking Lao in bangkok goes over quite well with the chrome pole molesters and Taxi scumbags who are for the most part issan types  but the Hi So Thai dont like it one bit , as pointed out by pescator.
Handy when youre on the prowl  in soi cowboy though, Although dont expect any riveting conversations regardless of how good your Lao is , You will still have to pay the bar fine anyway so might as well speak Foking swahili eh

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## Neverna

I saw a book and CD on Issan Thai somewhere. Se-ed or 7-11?

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## toddaniels

> Really? You travel half way around the globe, into a rural village, and tell people how they should speak.
> I don't ... I really ... I have no words.


 Like I said previously, I've yet to run across a single Thai in all my travels the length and breadth of the entire country who is unable to speak Central Thai. 

  It is after all the "government approved version of Thai" and the ONLY version taught in schools, spoken on television, in government offices and used on almost all FM radio stations.

  Now that Thais don't want to speak it, or that they're "uncomfortable" speaking it are horses of a different color. It's not that they can't and what ever excuse they wanna hide behind well it just isn't my problem. I gave 'em a choice, English or Central Thai, and they took it. The people I was invited to go with knew before I left that it was gonna be that way and yet still invited me, so figure that out yourself.

  You must have me confused for one of those "wanna-b-thai-sock-puppet-foreigners" I see wandering around the country. The ones so afraid of "ruffling the feathers" of the Thais that it wobbles my mind how they can live here "without a spine". 

  So to answer "PantyHamster", yes; I went to a one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere Thailand and told the people there to either speak English or Central Thai or not bother talkin' to me. Any more questions?  

  Still the topic of this thread was about learning to speak Issan Thai. As I said, there is a set of books out called not surprisingly Speak Isaan Thai. Google "LearnSpeakThai" just like that and you'll get the link.

  Good Luck,

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## Norton

> I've yet to run across a single Thai in all my travels the length and breadth of the entire country who is unable to speak Central Thai.


I'll arrange an honorary membership at the over 60 village social club I belong to here in my ville. Plenty of aging single Thais who would love to make your acquaintance. Mind, speaking Central Thai to them will be responded with nods, smiles, vacant stares out the window, rapid blinking, and lip licking.

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## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by toddaniels
> 
> I've yet to run across a single Thai in all my travels the length and breadth of the entire country who is unable to speak Central Thai.
> 
> 
> I'll arrange an honorary membership at the over 60 village social club I belong to here in my ville. Plenty of aging single Thais who would love to make your acquaintance. Mind, speaking Central Thai to them will be responded with nods, smiles, vacant stares out the window, rapid blinking, and lip licking.


Might this be a Norton diplomatic way of explaining to Mr. Todd that he doesn't know what the fcuk he's talking about...?? :mid: 

The usual blanket of dreamy standards that don't really exist...

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## toddaniels

WOW, quite the harsh replies to what is an honest observation on my part. I mean don't hold back, tell me what you really think. ..

OFF-TOPIC:
Thankfully, I stopped carin' about what other people thought of me a LONG time ago as it was getting in the way of me being me. I found out if you alienate everyone equally right outta the gate, you don't hafta really be all too concerned what you say. It makes communication that much easier. I always tell people; Hey, I'm NOT talkin' down to you, I'm tryin' to talk to you on my level. Gimme your hand I'll pull you up here. :Wink: 

Nods, smiles and vacant stares out the window, rapid blinking and lip licking too! Must be a great place to spend some time "socializing" with old people. Reminds me of visiting my grandfather in the "old age home" back in the US.  Sounds like all that's missing is the drooling and adult diapers! :mid: 

There is a BIG difference with people "pretending" to not understand, being "uncomfortable" with speaking, and their ability to speak and or understand Central Thai if push comes to shove. 

BACK-ON-TOPIC:
Still, if someone's wantin' to learn Isaan Thai, those two books I recommended would get 'em started in the right direction. . :Smile:  After all that's what this topic is about right, ways to learn Isaan Thai.

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## Norton

> Nods, smiles and vacant stares out the window, rapid blinking and lip licking too! Sounds like all that's missing is the drooling and adult diapers!


Plagiarized from Panty Hamster but as you note plenty of drooling. Hard not to when your mouth is full of beetle nut. 

Point of my "offer" was to acquaint you with the realities in rural Isaan. All folks in Isaan *do not* speak Central Thai. Many over the age of 50 have no formal education. All regardless of education speak Lao as they call it to communicate with each other on a daily basis. 

You are correct. Central Thai is taught in schools so those who attend are literate in the language. Note, literacy is about level of 4th grade.

When the kids go home they speak only Lao (Isaan Thai as the government prefers to call it). I live not far from Lao. Folks from where I live find it far easier to communicate when in Lao than when in Bangkok. 

So here I am. Living in a Lao speaking community. Reckon best I at least learn enough to understand and express myself. Just a personal ochoice of course. 




> Reminds me of visiting my grandfather in the "old age home" back in the US.


Indeed. A whole lot of wisdom and local history to be learned. All one has to do is understand and listen. Never know, might learn something new.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Folks from where I live find it far easier to communicate when in Lao than when in Bangkok.


Udon must be more 'developed' than Roi Et.

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## Norton

> Udon must be more 'developed' than Roi Et


Excepting the superior sophistication and development level of Roiet expat's compared to the primitives who reside in Udon.

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## Marmite the Dog

> Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
> 
> Udon must be more 'developed' than Roi Et
> 
> 
> Excepting the superior sophistication and development level of Roiet expat's compared to the primitives who reside in Udon.


When we went to Vientiane a couple of years ago, The Midget wasn't comfortable with the language like I thought she would be. She wasn't being obstinate and negative because they were Laotians, she just took a while to adjust as it was a lot more different from here brand of 'Laos' than she expected and was used to.

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## Borey the Bald

Here is a little background on language usage in Mrs. Borey's village:


 When I first visited in the early 70's, only Laotian was spoken there.  Virtually all of the older generation of villagers were born in Laos, and immigrated to Thailand as a group about 50 years earlier.  Since they are Roman Catholic, the village tended to be more insular than most.  They had very little to no Thai schooling, and had little contact with Thai speakers.  For most, even a ten kilometer trip to the district capital only took place a few times a year.   


 Mrs. Borey's generation was schooled in Thai, but among themselves only spoke Lao (now called Isaan).  Thai TV was only just starting to be available then, and the huge improvement being made at that time to roads made travel outside the village more common.  So her generation spoke Thai, but certainly not comfortably nor well, unless they had travelled to one of the big cities for work.


 The present generation are well schooled in Thai, travel outside the village a lot, and are constantly exposed to Thai in the form of TV, radio, and movies.  It appears to me that they speak Thai better than Isaan.  When they speak to a farang or even a Thai from outside their village, they speak Thai.  But still, when in their home village among their friends, they speak Isaan almost exclusively.   


 So, when travelling around NE Thailand, it is very nice to be able to communicate in Central Thai.  You will be universally understood.  But when sitting around having a beer with guys my age in the village, I find a working knowledge of Isaan dialect to be essential.

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## toddaniels

I stand humbly erected, errr I mean corrected!!  Environment is everything and if indeed your "target audience" speaks Isaan Thai, well that's the lingo you're most likely to get the best "bang-4-the-baht" from when interacting with them. 

  The Thai guys my age who live/work here in Bangkok near my house ALL hail from Isaan, yet all speak Central Thai just fine. Then again they've lived/worked in Bangkok for 10-15 years now, so I'd imagine even they've adopted the "when in Bangkok speak Central Thai" adage (if only to stop the overt racism Bangkokians have for Isaan-ites).  Don't get me wrong, most of them speak Isaan and the guy from Surin speaks Cambodian too.  

  I was only relating my own personal experience that Thais, the country over, seemed more than willing to converse in Central Thai with me during my travels around this country. Then again, the choice was speak Central Thai or English, so in a way that backed 'em into a corner. 

  I agree with "Borey the Bald" totally as far as generation by generation you can see the increased use of Central Thai due to access to the Thai government education system. 

  Thankfully, (for the younger Thais) we're also seeing an equally exponential growth in Thais using English; which is far more important on the world stage for the Thais at this stage of the game. 

  Gone are the days when Thailand was insulated and could afford to adopt the pretentious (yet totally predictably Thai) mindset of; "I'm Thai so I don't need to speak English". 

  Given the way the Thai youth of today, even in one buffalo villages in Nakhon Nowhere, are connected to the internet; I think this next generation is gonna really come into itself in regards to finding a 'balance' between their innate "Thai-ness" and the need for English as far as their future is concerned.

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## Panty Hamster

^ Agreed, good post.




> Given the way the Thai youth of today, even in one buffalo villages in  Nakhon Nowhere, are connected to the internet; I think this next  generation is gonna really come into itself in regards to finding a  'balance' between their innate "Thai-ness" and the need for *English* as  far as their future is concerned.


I wouldn't dismiss Lao language too soon. A lot of Isaan people are culturally more Lao than Thai. They eat Lao food, listen to Lao music, speak Lao at home, etc. 

They *call* it "Isaan" because the government here insists they are not Lao.

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## toddaniels

> They call it "Isaan" because the government here insists they are not Lao.


 Actually I think the reason they call it "Isaan Thai" is because after even a brief perusal of it, almost anyone can see it ain't the Laotian language; but a "hybrid" of both Thai and Lao. That's possibly why when Isaan-ites go to Vientiane, they're put off because they're suddenly exposed to "real Lao", not the "bastardized version" used in North Eastern Thailand.

Heck Isaan Thai is even spelled with THAI characters, not Lao ones. Last time I checked ร is still pronounced as an "R" (unless you're just plain lazy when it comes out like an "L") but I'm pretty sure, what it ain't is an "H" like the corresponding Lao character is..

Who of thunk it? The Thai "government" might really be onto something; I think those people ARE indeed Thais and not just misplace Laotians who wandered "off the rez" down into Thailand. 

As far as not counting the Lao language out, well it was "counted out" as a language which had any meaning anywhere but inside the country of 6 million people, a LONG time before I washed up here! 

About the only plus going for "real Lao" is the reform they did to the language as far as eliminating a LOT of the character duplication which Thai has (6-"T's", 5-"K's", 4-"S's", etc, which show word origins for Thais), in favor of a more simplified alphabetic system. Thai is WAY overdue for something like this.

That's why I say it's the Thai youth of today which will change the country for the better or worse. I mean, after all it's their country. I ain't tryin' to change 'em, I just live in and amongst ' em. .

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## Marmite the Dog

> Thai is WAY overdue for something like this.


Or better still, it should be binned and everyone use a proper language like English.

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## nostromo

Good post - well, many good points. While I do not get an erection of forum post - without girlie pics - eh.

Promoting use of English as this Government does - against all the past government did - is a very good thing, and does not mean nothing like abandoning "Thainess" as the yellow media puts it. It is just additional bonus, if you like that comparison. Bring freedom and access to education and to world of knowledge to people - I say.

To better future!





> I stand humbly erected, errr I mean corrected!!  Environment is everything and if indeed your "target audience" speaks Isaan Thai, well that's the lingo you're most likely to get the best "bang-4-the-baht" from when interacting with them. 
> 
>   The Thai guys my age who live/work here in Bangkok near my house ALL hail from Isaan, yet all speak Central Thai just fine. Then again they've lived/worked in Bangkok for 10-15 years now, so I'd imagine even they've adopted the "when in Bangkok speak Central Thai" adage (if only to stop the overt racism Bangkokians have for Isaan-ites).  Don't get me wrong, most of them speak Isaan and the guy from Surin speaks Cambodian too.  
> 
>   I was only relating my own personal experience that Thais, the country over, seemed more than willing to converse in Central Thai with me during my travels around this country. Then again, the choice was speak Central Thai or English, so in a way that backed 'em into a corner. 
> 
>   I agree with "Borey the Bald" totally as far as generation by generation you can see the increased use of Central Thai due to access to the Thai government education system. 
> 
>   Thankfully, (for the younger Thais) we're also seeing an equally exponential growth in Thais using English; which is far more important on the world stage for the Thais at this stage of the game. 
> ...

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