#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > The Family Room >  >  I hate you

## hillbilly

While living in the states with my daughter we have had a few hiccups. She has grown up in a Thailand with a maid and is not use to doing housework. Hence, one of the reasons for moving back for a few years to instill some responsibility.

Sunday is a clean the house day. Washing, drying and putting up clothes along with tidying up our rooms. The big stink involves cleaning the bathroom, my daughter says that it is disgusting. Today, to add to her chores I added my bathroom as she often uses it as well.

This 9-year old got all upset about the additional duty and said "I hate you".  :Sad: 

Currently, I am now trying to calm down before resolving this issue. So what would you do?

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## Texpat

get a maid.

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## S Landreth

unacceptable behavior (the I hate you comment),she does need responsibilities 

I was raised in a strict home,..there is nothing wrong with asking your children to do chores 

However,.she was raised with a house keeper in the house here in Thailand so it is going to take some adjustments

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## hillbilly

> get a maid.


Your suggestion could help bandaid the problem, but actually providing a solution?  :Smile:

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## buriramboy

Make her earn her pocket money/allowance or whatever you call it, no work no money, she don't want to do her chores then no luxuries as in new clothes or whatever you spoil your daughter with.

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## NickA

> She has grown up in a Thailand with a maid and is not use to doing housework. Hence, one of the reasons for moving back for a few years to instill some responsibility.


Couldn't you just have sacked the maid?  :Smile:

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## hillbilly

^This was tried several times, but the truth is initially I enjoyed the aspects of having a Thai maid. As the years went on... Well you get the picture. :Sad:

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## davearn

Could always use the line Dustin Hoffman used in Kramer vs Kramer.

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## hillbilly

> Could always use the line Dustin Hoffman used in Kramer vs Kramer.


Come on now, help me out here. What was the line?

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## britmaveric

reward/punishment method - don't do your chores you get things cut out, you do things then you get some pocket dosh. 

Chores teaches responsibility - not going to have someone else do things for you always, so best to learn this now, not later.

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## davearn

^ Sorry mate, I was only joshing but the line is "I hate you back, you littlle shit"

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## mrsquirrel

Do nothing.

Said it myself a few times


Let it pass and she will do something about it if she wants to or realises she said it out of anger.


don't worry about it HB.

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## friscofrankie

ignore the "I hate you"  stick to your guns.  Be fair.
Every parent goes through this.  It is her prerogative to hate you, it is NOT her prerogative to defy you. Make damned she does her chores, whether she hates you or not.

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## hillbilly

Ok, I have calmed down just a bit.

I just have to remind myself that I was an asshole when I was I kid. Probably still am at times.

Now here is where us adults can't figure out kids. My daughter is now cleaning out her entire room to include the closet.  :Smile:  Might I say no problem with the Disney Channel not being on, she is listening to today's music and is doing what she has been asked. 

Even organizing her closet or wardrobe as the Thais would say.

However, she did comment that she only had 5 pairs of jeans... :Sad: 

Thanks for all the imput. Really appreciate the feedback!  :Smile:

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## kingwilly

> Currently, I am now trying to calm down before resolving this issue. So what would you do?


gladd the others said it first, DO NOT react to the i hate you comment, 

it is either

1. a means of blowing off steam (and thus to be ignored)

2. said to get a reaction (and thus to be ignored)

Besides, your daughter will love you forever, don't let words said in anger hurt that. do not make a deal out of it.

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## ch1ldofthemoon

send her out to work ther rice paddies,tell her she cant come back `till she loves you........

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## chitown

This type of the thing was the beginning of the end of my relationship with the kid. So be careful how you handle it. Be firm, fair, loving and don't back down. Hope for the best, but expect the worst. No matter how fair you are it won't be enough in her eyes. Good luck HB - been there done that!

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## Rural Surin

> ignore the "I hate you" stick to your guns. Be fair.
> Every parent goes through this. It is her prerogative to hate you, it is NOT her prerogative to defy you. Make damned she does her chores, whether she hates you or not.


Good sound advice Frankie. Nonetheless, situations can be different, this might be a sound guideline. Cheers :Smile:

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## Rural Surin

DELETE

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## Rattanaburi

She should learn to do work but making her clean your bathroom could be a bit disgusting especially if your hair is all over the place in it. Why not tell her if she doesn't want to clean it she should use the other one but she has to clean it. Growing up we never cleaned our parents bathroom. My sisters pretty much only did laundry or stuff in the kitchen. I guess they helped in keeping the main bathroom clean. You know girls though they mess up bathrooms with all their makeup etc. Thinking back it seems that my brother and I did a lot more work around the house inside and out than my sisters. Now my brother is a lazy ass. My sisters are the most successful. 

Anyways, I still think that a 9 year old shouldn't have to clean her father's toilet. It's disgusting!!!

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## Loy Toy

> This 9-year old got all upset about the additional duty and said "I hate you".


Welcome to fatherhood mate!

Don't make a big issue out of it but stick to your guns and certainly do not bow to her outburst.

I would like a dollar for everytime one of my kids told me they hate me and at the end we could not be closer.

By giving her chores and responsibilities is ensuring that she ends up feeling a bigger part of your family. She will thank you one day and tell you she is going to teach her children the same principles.

Then your grand kids will tell you that they hate you! 

Comes with being a good dad mate!  :Smile:

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## hillbilly

Thanks! My daughter is still not happy!

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## jizzybloke

^she'll get over it!

I never said "i hate you" to mine my brother did and got the shit kicked out of him, just made me more sneaky

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## Loy Toy

My son (adopted) tends to piss all over the toilet seat including the floor and when he does a piss and doesn't clean up his mess.

My wife explained that he has a foreskin which hangs over his bell end which does not allow him to piss straight!

Well as I don't have a foreskin I can't imagine his problem so this morning I waltzed him into the toilet and made him clean up his mess. My wife told me she would clean it and I told her that if he doesn't learn now he will never learn.

She agreed, he got down begrudgingly and cleaned up his piss and I don't want to see his yellow beads all over the toilet seat again over wise I will ban him from the toilets and I will give him a 5 Gallon bucket to do his business in.

You gotta be cruel to be kind......My parents were!

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## The Gentleman Scamp

> Originally Posted by Texpat
> 
> 
> get a maid.
> 
> 
> Your suggestion could help bandaid the problem, but actually providing a solution?


Exactly, it must hurt a bit to be told 'I hate you' from your own child or from a step child but is getting a maid providing a solution or simply spoiling the kid?

Many kids in Thailand do have maids and drivers and go to nice schools - this is all very well providing they understand how fortunate they are.

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## DrAndy

^^that is not cruel, it is education, LT

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## jizzybloke

how old is he LT?

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## Mid

> You gotta be cruel to be kind......My parents were!


straight up true .  :Smile: 

and ignore Tex's week troll , 'twas he who rightly stated in another thread , your a role model not a friend .

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## Loy Toy

> how old is he LT?


12 years old mate and to be fair he is a good kid but lacks a bit of discipline!




> ^^that is not cruel, it is education, LT


Just a figure of speech mate.........What was that Elvis Costello song!  :Smile:

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## jizzybloke

at 12 he should know better than to piss on the toilet seat and walk away!

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## Loy Toy

> at 12 he should know better than to piss on the toilet seat and walk away!


Yes I know and as we have just moved into a new house he has his own toilet now.

I decided to use it last night, and as I had a case of the Bali Belly and found it looked like a toilet at Swampy airport. Piss everywhere and thats when I got the explanation from my wife about his covered bell end.

I told him this morning if he can't aim straight he can sit on the toilet like a girl and I won't accept piss all over the place.

That brings me to the next Dad's question and I ask this advice.
As I am circumcised I have no idea about teaching him about personal hygiene and with regard to his foreskin. Can anyone tell me what I should advise him and so he can firstly piss straight and clean his bell end?

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## DaffyDuck

> Currently, I am now trying to calm down before resolving this issue. So what would you do?


You should ask yourself why a 9-year old, in a fit of childhood temper, saying "I hate you" makes you that angry...?

The compromise solution would appear simple -- you tell her that you will stay out of her bathroom, as long as she stays out of yours, and that she won't have to clean your bathroom ... AS LONG AS SHE KEEPS HER'S CLEAN...

The other factor being is that you need to show that you are also doing your chores, or occasionally helping her with her chores -- I'm sure you are doing that already, but she should not be expected to do chores, without having an example shown to her by you doing the same (like I said, I'm sure you are already doing that).

Either way, examine yourself why the situation made you that angry.

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## Jesus Jones

Set some ground rules, simple as that.  If she doesn't like them, tough.  I'm surprised you need to ask, no offense of course.

Assign some jobs to her that are for her only and make sure your maid doesn't get involved.

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## Texpat

If she says she hates you, no biggie.
If she laces your coffee with strychnine, you're in trouble.

She's trying to manipulate. Ignore it. If you react, she'll revisit the ploy.

Do you have a dungeon?

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## Kurgen

A good thrashing with a 1m length of electrical cable should do it

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## larvidchr

My kids have said that to me couple of times I think all parents will hear that at some point, my answer always was " but I really love you very very much, and now do as I told you" 
I agree you must "stick to your guns"  but always show unconditional love to your children at the same time.  :Smile:

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## larvidchr

> Originally Posted by jizzybloke
> 
> at 12 he should know better than to piss on the toilet seat and walk away!
> 
> 
> Yes I know and as we have just moved into a new house he has his own toilet now.
> 
> I decided to use it last night, and as I had a case of the Bali Belly and found it looked like a toilet at Swampy airport. Piss everywhere and thats when I got the explanation from my wife about his covered bell end.
> 
> ...


I don't know your Son so I don't know who he will be most comfortable with on this subject your Wife or you, but there is only one way, one of you must first make him pull back his foreskin to check that he can do that (while you watch) and if ok then make him do that in the shower and again tell him to wash with soap (gently) while the skin is fully pulled back rinse with plenty of water and tell him to do that every time he showers, there is no easy way out of this one, where I come from Mothers teach their boys this allready from a very early age while they bathe their sons. :Smile:

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## engrin

> My son (adopted) tends to piss all over the toilet seat including the floor and when he does a piss and doesn't clean up his mess.
> 
> My wife explained that he has a *foreskin which hangs over his bell end which does not allow him to piss straight!*
> 
> Well as I don't have a foreskin I can't imagine his problem so this morning I waltzed him into the toilet and made him clean up his mess. My wife told me she would clean it and I told her that if he doesn't learn now he will never learn.
> 
> She agreed, he got down begrudgingly and cleaned up his piss and I don't want to see his yellow beads all over the toilet seat again over wise I will ban him from the toilets and I will give him a 5 Gallon bucket to do his business in.
> 
> You gotta be cruel to be kind......My parents were!


Get him circumcised. Problem solved.

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## Loy Toy

^^ Thanks Larvidchr you information is most helpful!  :Smile: 

Better still, and as you live just around the corner can you come around and talk to him yourself.  

I don't know if I can handle teaching someone how to wash their knob! Yes your do it and I will say your Dr. Larvi!  :Smile:

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## DaffyDuck

> My wife explained that he has a foreskin which hangs over his bell end which does not allow him to piss straight!


Your wife is being a typical mother, making excuses for her nestling, but that's not really a solution. Most uncircumcised penis' have loose skin at the end, and if left that way, it interferes with the stream (Duh!).

Obviously, the kid can do something about it -- pull back the skin a little bit, to free up the front of his gland, and lo and behold, he can piss straight.

You're his father - it's your job to show him how to properly piss, which is not rocket science. You can either show him by demonstration (you're family, so that's actually 'ok' unless you're one of the prude Yanks), or you can make it a playful challenge in the form of a pissing contest -- just challenge him to either hit specific targets with his piss, or to write certain shapes on the floor with his piss (obviously, this works easier in snow, which you may be short of). 

Either way, geez, if you're challenged by something as simple as showing your kid how to piss properly, you better forget about being a parent with anything more critical... ;-)




> As I am circumcised I have no idea about teaching him about personal hygiene and with regard to his foreskin. Can anyone tell me what I should advise him and so he can firstly piss straight and clean his bell end?


Are you frakking kidding me? Have you heard of this thing called a 'shower'? What do you do in the shower? Do you never touch your knob in the shower, for fear of sinful activity, or how the heck do you wash yourself down there -- or, at all.

Being circumcised does not mean you can forego regular and normal body hygiene (showers, baths, that kind of thing), but sometimes, seeing these kind of queries, I really have to wonder if some people just consider it a carte blanche to skipping regular hygiene.

Seriously, don't you wash down there? It'd be no different for your kid, except that he'd be pulling his skin back, apply soap, apply water... you know, that sort of thing.

Again, this may be a situation where you may need to show him -- just plop him in the shower, have him show how he washes himself, and give him some directions as to what else to do in order to get the area under the skin clean.

I'm still shocked that this even comes up as a question.... from a western poster...

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## Loy Toy

Sorry for shocking you duck but I have heard all stories about strangulated foreskins and the such and I therefore asked the good people here for some advice. 

By the way the boy is well into puberty and I am sure he will be more embarrassed about this situation then what I am. I am thinking about taking him down to the local family doctor and for him to check his foreskin and give him some advice also.

Anyway thanks for your advice, even with your elephant in a china shop delivery!  :Smile:

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## Lily

> Every parent goes through this. It is her prerogative to hate you, it is NOT her prerogative to defy you. Make damned she does her chores, whether she hates you or not.


I have to agree with Frankie here,  you are not being a good parent if they dont 'say' they hate you at times. It is about teaching them to take responsibility for themselves. Sometimes it is a challeng to them they will use every trick in the book to get out of it.Really, who chooses to clean toilets if they dont have to? 

They dont hate you, it is just a rite of passage.

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## Panda

One thing I noticed about my upcountry Thai in-laws was that the kids all pulled their weight around the place as far as chores go. I never saw any whinging about it either. Kids as young as 4 would be helping their family clean up and prepare food for the market next morning. The kids would sit around on the mat cutting up the banana leaves and enjoying the experience too. It was impressive to see such cooperation. But the one thing that stood out is that the work was always shared. None (especially the kids) was seen working alone. Everyone chipped in together in the extended family situation and the kids were brought up to not know anything different than it was just the normal thing to do.

I have to wonder if our newly evolved nuclear family unit is not a bit out of whack with human nature in some ways when everyone has individual chores and individual rewards?

Sounds like the young girl in the OP is suffering from a bit of culture shock coming from a relatitively privileged family with a maid to (?USA) and becoming middle class having do do her own cleaning up. Shes had to take a cut in living standards, as far as menial tasks go anyway, and it wasn't her choice. So no wonder she is upset. We all whinge when someone takes something away from us.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the "I hate you" line. Kids dont have the developed vocabulary to express their feelings adequately sometimes. (often goes for adults too.) If she had said something like, -- " I am really angry with you for making me come here and having to do all this shitty work that should be done by the maid" , I'll bet it wouldn't have the same emotional impact on dear old Dad.

My suggestion to help her overcome the culture shock of a change in social class levels would be to encourage a more family based participation in the cleaning duties rather than divide the tasks up and assign them to individuals within the unit. And then to offer some reward, eg, .. Ok, lets all get this place cleaned up and we can all go out and have a treat... etc.

Its not easy to change habits and attitudes of a lifetime (assuming the girl has never had to do her own cleaning before), especially if it means taking a cut in living standards (eg:more domestic chores). 

The standard stick and carrot approach is probably the way to go. Offer some reward for helping out, perhaps some pocket money to spend on an outing as reward. Also there's the emotional reward of working together as a family unit, -- everyone kicks in together to get the job done and praise for effort is encouragement while refusal to participate should result in a degree of scorn from the rest of the family group. And of course, no reward spending money on the follow up family outing would also have an impact on her decision making.

If it gets down to a --"do as I say because I am the boss and just forget about your previous upbringing because you are in a different country now", you are sure to create more animosity. She may end up submitting to your will but be prepared for a rebellion when she hits her teens.

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## Johnny Longprong

> ignore the "I hate you" stick to your guns. Be fair. Every parent goes through this. It is her prerogative to hate you, it is NOT her prerogative to defy you. Make damned she does her chores, whether she hates you or not.


Bloody good advice. This is a pivotal moment in your relationship. For the next 15 or so years there will be similar challenges to your position. Whilst her comments might be hurtful to you, they probably mean very little to her, other than she doesn't know any other way to respond. The concept of hate is something not understood by her. It is not even understood by you, so why would it be understood by her?

I hate to draw the analogy, but it is a lot like training your dog. Someone has to show leadership and authority. The important thing also is that your authority isn't being undermined from other areas. Unity of command is vitally important in such matters. Love is strong and kind.

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## DaffyDuck

> Sorry for shocking you duck but I have heard all stories about strangulated foreskins and the such and I therefore asked the good people here for some advice.


Fair enough.




> Anyway thanks for your advice, even with your elephant in a china shop delivery!


LOL! Yeah, sorry about that -- it just appears to be such a common thing, showering and washing, that I was genuinely shocked that it was even a question.

Not sure if taking him to a doctor for examination and lecturing on how to clean his penis might not be more embarrassing than just having a father-son talk with him, especially if he's well into puberty (the way it was described, you made it appears as if he were a 5-9 year old).  

Hey, but when in doubt, you can always google for it:

Penis care (uncircumcised) - Overview




> Teenage boys should be taught to gently retract the foreskin during bathing and clean the penis thoroughly. After cleaning the penis, dry the area completely. Then, it is very important to pull the foreskin back over the head of the penis. Otherwise, the foreskin can slightly constrict the head of the penis, causing swelling and pain. This requires medical treatment.


;-)

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## DrivingForce

> Probably still am at times.


which? a kid or an asshole?  :Smile:

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## phuketbound

There is a lot of great advice on this thread. 

I'd just like to add that giving a child responsibility is the best thing you can do. If you had stayed in Thailand, and had her grown up with a maid. She may end up being a spoiled brat, who may have a hard time in life because of her attitude. 

She doesn't hate you. Hate has strong emotion to cover for another emotion. She is probably in pain, because it is new to her, and she thinks it is unfair. After she starts cleaning after herself a few times, I bet she will grow to like it. It may make her feel good about herself, having some responsibility. Evenif it is cleaning toilets  :Smile:

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## BarnacleBill

Such a wealth of advice here.  Not a lot more to add.  In our household we worked together to keep the domestic place clean and tidy, like my two sons and I having to clean all the china on a Sunday morning, with Mum continually telling us not to break anything.  But it was a challenge to all of us and we enjoyed it - in the end.  We all (most of us) like to live in a clean environment and once we acknowledge that it can only be made that way by our own efforts then it becomes a responsibilit and not a chore.

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## Texpat

good words, crusted one.

Take care of that which is important.

Kids often times don't see a home as important.

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## Nawty

Don't worry about the Duck LT....Daffney likes to play with his 'bell' end a lot in the shower and any old excuse to give it a rub and a soak in nice warm soapy water will do.....maybe he is one of those clean freaks, you know he gets the rubber gloves on and a scrubbing brush to give his gonads a good goin over also.

I mean really....lets look at it this way....I went into the pisser once in a bar here and had a piss. I had just been eating or drinking, whatever...I undid me zip, I dragged out the schlong and had a piss, put it back and did up the zip.

Only thing i touched was my pecker and my pecker is good enough for my wife to swallow, so its good enough for me to hold.

I don't normally wash my hands after only pissing, don't touch anything else, even the door you can kick open.

So this guy in the bathroom says....oi ain't you gunna wash your hands...I said mate its my dick, not yours, fuck off and mind your own business.

Maybe it was Daffney ??

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## Ghandi

Take the kid down to the ghetto and show her how the other half lives and then explain they don't even have toilets to clean, sure works like a charm for me.

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## Texpat

^ Gotta model home if yer interested.  :Smile:

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## Fabian

> Take the kid down to the ghetto and show her how the other half lives and then explain they don't even have toilets to clean, sure works like a charm for me.


Are there really people in the US living without toilets?

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## Panda

The Yanks dont have toilets, -- only bathrooms.
Always wondered if they shit in the bath or the shower?

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## Nawty

> The Yanks dont have toilets, -- only bathrooms.
> Always wondered if they shit in the bath or the shower?


I think it depends at what stage of obescity they are at !

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## Another Farang

mate, in my oppinion she may be too young to scrub skidmarks off the toilet.
I know it builds character, and disciple and all that, but I would wait for her to be an early teen for that at least.
Even if she did the whole house and you do just the toilet...

its just a shitty task, thats all.

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