#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thai Visas and Visa Runs >  >  Health Insurance Now Required for Long Stay Expats

## tomcat

...I guess we can ask Tod as to when this latest edict comes into effect: https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/110..._campaign=news

----------


## Dragonfly

love it  :rofl: 

Asked about foreigners who cannot buy health insurance because their health risks are considered too high, Nattawuth said relevant authorities might consider requiring them to have higher deposits in bank accounts so as to make sure that they have enough to live in Thailand.

----------


## Switch

> love it 
> 
> Asked about foreigners who cannot buy health insurance because their health risks are considered too high, Nattawuth said relevant authorities might consider requiring them to have higher deposits in bank accounts so as to make sure that they have enough to live in Thailand.


 ..... or more accurately. Enough to die in Thailand.

----------


## Pragmatic

Why is it not seen, if married with children, that as per the Thai way, the children will care for the parent(s). There once was an extension, based on being supported by a Thai child, where a farang could get an extension without showing money in the bank. I obtained one in 2006-7, as I recall. So what happened to the 'Thai way?'

----------


## Dragonfly

> ..... or more accurately. Enough to die in Thailand.


... and make someone happy with his bank balance  :Smile:

----------


## nidhogg

Well, it took a while, but looks as though they finally found a deal breaker for the majority of farangs.

----------


## Norton

> Well, it took a while, but looks as though they finally found a deal breaker for the majority of farangs.


Too soon to tell. Immigration has been floating all sorts of "requirements" too see reaction. This is likely another.

----------


## misskit

It’s really the shits if one is planning to live out their days in Thailand. Costs for over the over 75 gang gets too high. 

Can’t see why the government couldn’t let the “old timers” buy into the 30 baht plan if they want to die like a Thai, that is, without all the life extending treatments.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Can’t see why the government couldn’t let the “old timers” buy into the 30 baht plan if they want to die like a Thai


 They actually did try it a few years back but cancelled it after about a year. Thailand government claimed it was only meant for migratory foreigners.

----------


## Luigi

> Why is it not seen, if married with children, that as per the Thai way, the children will care for the parent(s). There once was an extension, based on being supported by a Thai child, where a farang could get an extension without showing money in the bank. I obtained one in 2006-7, as I recall. So what happened to the 'Thai way?'


What happened?

As usual, dodgy farangs abusing the system.  :Smile: 

2 of my mates got it at the time, one got the extension based on being supported by a 14 year old, the other based on being supported by a 3 year old.*


Little wonder it was foked off after a year, and back to 400k in the bank or documented 40k p/m income based on wife or child.





* I didn't have a child at the time, but was willing to steal one.

----------


## baldrick

> Many other cuntrys require Health Insurance from Foreign scum who want to stay long term


name them





> Cant see why the government couldnt let the  old timers buy into the 30 baht plan if they want to die like a  Thai,


pallative care insurance - enough to pay for a nurse and morphine

----------


## bowie

> pallative care insurance - enough to pay for a nurse and morphine


In a nutshell that's pretty much all that's really required.

----------


## tomcat

> In a nutshell that's pretty much all that's really required.


...nonsense: swollen prostates, fatty livers, high blood pressure, morbid obesity, etc may all require medical attention well before a trip to the oven...

----------


## Fondles

> It’s really the shits if one is planning to live out their days in Thailand. Costs for over the over 75 gang gets too high. 
> 
> Can’t see why the government couldn’t let the “old timers” buy into the 30 baht plan if they want to die like a Thai, that is, without all the life extending treatments.


Wouldn't that "person" be on a permission to stay extension rather than a visa ?

----------


## Maanaam

> Long Stay Expats


Define long stay and how it relates to a one year visa or extension at the time of application.

----------


## Norton

> They actually did try it a few years back but cancelled it after about a year.


They did and like then, this too shall pass. No need to panic. As always, will be at discretion of your local immigration office.

----------


## Switch

Indonesia requires life insurance. All handled by honest (cough) agents here.

----------


## Norton

> Indonesia requires life insurance. All handled by honest (cough) agents here.


Likely same will transpire here if this health insurance requirement prevails.

----------


## Pragmatic

> As always, will be at discretion of your local immigration office.


It surely was, being as when I got mine the IO said that I had to show some money in that I had to prove I could sustain myself. But the logic behind the extension was that I didn't have to sustain myself as my child was looking after me. 
As I recall, we settled on showing 200,000 in the bank. But I can't recall if I had to have a bank letter confirming such.

----------


## bowie

> ...nonsense: swollen prostates, fatty livers, high blood pressure, morbid obesity, etc may all require medical attention well before a trip to the oven...


hmm... sounds like a shit load of pre-existing conditions you let yourself fall into, good luck getting an insurance company to "foot-the-bill" of your lifestyle

----------


## Maanaam

> I had to prove I could sustain myself.


If the logic is that the foreigner has to show he can sustain himself for a year, they'd accept seeing the balance, expiry date and limit of his overseas credit card. Future extensions could be based on that credit card being maintained.

----------


## Stumpy

Man there are some people losing their minds over this (Not on this site but the other). I can understand being it appears that many live on the ragged edge and a financial set back like this could be a lot of stress especially if they are all in. But one has to believe that they know things would change, they always do. 

For now, its life as usual. Like all new rules and regs anywhere in the world there will be adjustments, considerations and likely allowances and as we all know every immigration office will have their own spin on it. There is nothing defined yet. The Nation news clip had nothing in it, it just started mass hysteria.  :Smile:

----------


## bowie

> Costs for over the over 75 gang gets too high.


From the charts - the 75 and older crowd'll be paying 100k/annum for 400k in coverage - and imagine how many pre-existng conditions will be exempted from the coverage - the champagne corks'll be popping in the insurance company board rooms for sure. 

Of course, on a different note, insurance is a highly competitive business, I'm sure several expat insurance companies are eyeing the developments and will offer competitive plans to satisfy the potential requirements.

But, good luck to all trying to do an "apples-to-apples" comparison of insurance company plans - really do need a "broker" to figure it out, and brokers of course have biases. 

The biggest problem with the over 75 gang is the (long) list of "pre-existing" conditions that'll be exempted from the coverage.

----------


## Stumpy

> I'm sure several expat insurance companies are eyeing the developments and will offer competitive plans to satisfy the potential requirements.


Exactly right. And there are some folks living here that may have conditions that they handle on their own now ( do not have insurance). That helps because if the  insurance company says they will not cover it, it has little or no impact to the insured. Basically all many want is a card that says they comply at the lowest cost available but wont use it much anyway.

----------


## Pragmatic

> There once was an extension, based on being supported by a Thai child, where a farang could get an extension without showing money in the bank. I obtained one in 2006-7, as I recall.


 Just to confirm that you could once get an extension without showing money in the bank.




> *Extension based on support of a child        
> Thursday, 08 February 2007 * 
> 
> Getting an extension to a visa is paramount to being able to stay in Thailand long term.  For those who are not employed, not married to a Thai national, or do not qualify for a retirement extension, but have Thai children, one option was the extension based on support of a Thai child.
> However, since Oct 1st 2006 the rules regarding this type of extension were radically changed.  
> Before it was possible to obtain a yearly extension based on the fact that you were supporting your Thai child .  This was particularly useful for those who were not married to a Thai , or not over 50yrs old (to qualify for retirement extension ).
> 
> As of Oct 1st 2006 this option is no longer available.
> 
> ...

----------


## Switch

> Likely same will transpire here if this health insurance requirement prevails.


Having experienced both systems, its probably time for agents to take over in Thailand too. Does away with any IO vagaries and the concerns that it can create for applicants.

The gent must be close to flogging his arse to an Arab by now anyway.

----------


## bowie

> Basically all many want is a card that says they comply at the lowest cost available but wont use it much anyway.


Yup, but, the problem  (and as Norton points out, may not exist at all) is that this potential "requirement" is nothing more than a fee. Some users would be required to pay a rather "large" fee 100k/annum for... well, nothing. Paying an exorbitant price for a policy that could rarely be used. 

Kinda like banking 800k to prove you have enough funds to live in Thailand for the year, yet, you can't touch the money for six months - hmm... just what the hell are you using to pay the bills and put food on the table for those six months ???

----------


## Pragmatic

> it’s probably time for agents to take over in Thailand too


 Then we go full circle in that the agents will take over the bad practices that the IO had.   :Smile:

----------


## PAG

Certainly a great deal of hysteria being generated by this, all because of a statement by a Health Department civil servant, and not a Immigration proclamation itself.   The only direct response from an Immigration official that I've found is this below.   Again, O-A visas are issued by Thai Embassies/Consulates in home countries or countries of permanent residence.

They already have different requirements (medical/police clearance certification etc) than the Non-O tourist visa extensions (for retirement/marriage/dependents etc) that most of us have.  I only know a few people with O-A visas, and they are typically those for whom a normal extendable 60 day tourist visa is insufficient for their winter in Thailand/summer back in Sweden or wherever routine.

_UPDATE: Phuket Immigration Chief Col Kathathorn Kumthieng confirmed to The Phuket News today (May 14) that he has been informed of the new requirement but that he has yet to receive an order for his office to start applying it when processing applications for one-year Non-Immigrant O-A permits-to-stay._
_Col Kathathorn also confirmed that the new insusrance requirement applies only to Non-Immigrant O-A "retirement" visas._

----------


## Stumpy

> Yup, but, the problem  (and as Norton points out, may not exist at all) is that this potential "requirement" is nothing more than a fee. Some users would be required to pay a rather "large" fee 100k/annum for... well, nothing. Paying an exorbitant price for a policy that could rarely be used. 
> 
> Kinda like banking 800k to prove you have enough funds to live in Thailand for the year, yet, you can't touch the money for six months - hmm... just what the hell are you using to pay the bills and put food on the table for those six months ???


Yeah. Its a messy and not well thought out program for sure. I respect they want to validate financial and medical means but holding the money is stupid but they did that because of all the illegal money loan sharks that do it and pull it out. Sadly most only scammed themselves into a corner

----------


## tomcat

> Sadly most only scammed themselves into a corner


...so, then...who benefited from all this illegal activity?...the usual suspects?...

----------


## Stumpy

> ...so, then...who benefited from all this illegal activity?...the usual suspects?...


People saw opportunity and seized it.  Every law, rule mandate always has loopholes and people find them and exploit it.  Then it becomes obvious and an ammendment is introduced to close it but others surface.  Clearly in the 800K deal the long bank hold is to make it uncomfortable for the people who use loan agencies to meet the criteria.  

The medical will have same approach.  Launch it and then plug the gaps as they surface.

My medical insurance through the US company does not have a card or policy.  Its basic Blue Cross .  However I am covered 100% for anything that might occur and I submit receipts for reimbursement.  Try and explain that to immigration.  I am not sure I even need to as I am not a retiree here.  I have a work permit.

----------


## Fondles

> My medical insurance through the US company does not have a card or policy.  Its basic Blue Cross .  However I am covered 100% for anything that might occur and I submit receipts for reimbursement.  Try and explain that to immigration.  I am not sure I even need to as I am not a retiree here.  I have a work permit.


As you have a work permit you should also hold a Thai Social Security card which also covers medical stuff too.

----------


## Stumpy

> As you have a work permit you should also hold a Thai Social Security card which also covers medical stuff too.


Yes I do and am also covered that way as well as is my wife. She is also covered under the umbrella US insurance as well. 

That said though, I do not want to work forever so I can have med insurance coverage to meet some rule. This same thing happened in the US when they mandated everyone have insurance and you had to show proof of it, had to be submitted with your Income tax return. People scrambled around and some had to pay HUGE premiums if self employed and had families.

----------


## headhunter

> Yeah. Its a messy and not well thought out program for sure. I respect they want to validate financial and medical means but holding the money is stupid but they did that because of all the illegal money loan sharks that do it and pull it out. Sadly most only scammed themselves into a corner


well JP. who do you think will administer this SCAM,immigration knows fuk all about health ins.so are we going to see ins.agents by the dozen at imm.trying to flog whats not wanted,BY ME,or bent immigration os.telling you NO INS.NO EXT.my 90 days is due so I will turn up with 12bank acc.pass books and see how much they want me to show.
as I have said before the only thing that worries me is,the ins.agents trying to scam my wife for a very large SUM that wouldn't cover a bad cough.she does know the English words for telling someone where to go.and to finnish off does this health minister have any evidence of farangs leaving hospitals without paying their bills.
we all know the thai health service is in a mess so they should put their own house in order first.
just think of the cost of one weeks road accidents,that 30bht.is supposed to cover,it would be more than all the GENUINE expats bills put together.

----------


## Fondles

> Yes I do and am also covered that way as well as is my wife. She is also covered under the umbrella US insurance as well. 
> 
> That said though, I do not want to work forever so I can have med insurance coverage to meet some rule. This same thing happened in the US when they mandated everyone have insurance and you had to show proof of it, had to be submitted with your Income tax return. People scrambled around and some had to pay HUGE premiums if self employed and had families.


Keep paying the Thai SS after you finish work and your covered, mine is 400b a month.

----------


## Pragmatic

> just think of the cost of one weeks road accidents,that 30bht.is supposed to cover


 Sorry to correct you HH but road accidents are not treated using the 30 Baht scheme. Hence why all motorists, by law, have to have the compulsory Por Ror Bor insurance. Same applies to failed attempted suiciders. You will not get free treatment at a government hospital.

----------


## Stumpy

> Keep paying the Thai SS after you finish work and your covered, mine is 400b a month.


Nice thing on Thai SS, once I quit I get it all back. Its like a Mini savings

----------


## headhunter

> Sorry to correct you HH but road accidents are not treated using the 30 Baht scheme. Hence why all motorists, by law, have to have the compulsory Por Ror Bor insurance. Same applies to failed attempted suiciders. You will not get free treatment at a government hospital.


oh well PRAG.attempted suicide is out of the question.
what does the por ror bor cover,since i had to give up driving i did trans.the policy to the buyer of my car.so I don't have any figures except the policy cost 645bht.
my nieghbour lost a family member in an accident,the hospital bill plus recovery of the vehicle left them with NOTHING.

----------


## Pragmatic

> what does the por ror bor cover


 This as far as I'm aware.         


> Compulsory car insurance provides coverage for third party involved in a car accident. Compulsory car insurance ensures that the company will pay to third party in case of loss of life and bodily injuries._All vehicles are required to have a compulsory insurance policy by the law, and must be renewed every year before paying the annual car tax._
> *Compulsory insurance coverage*
> 
> Medical Expenses = up to ฿ 80,000 per personLoss of Vital Organ = ฿ 200,000-300,000Death and Permanent Disability = ฿ 300,000 per personDaily Compensation (up to 20 days) = ฿ 200 baht

----------


## headhunter

> Man there are some people losing their minds over this (Not on this site but the other). I can understand being it appears that many live on the ragged edge and a financial set back like this could be a lot of stress especially if they are all in. But one has to believe that they know things would change, they always do. 
> 
> For now, its life as usual. Like all new rules and regs anywhere in the world there will be adjustments, considerations and likely allowances and as we all know every immigration office will have their own spin on it. There is nothing defined yet. The Nation news clip had nothing in it, it just started mass hysteria.


I have just read some of the posts on the other plannet,and it seems NOBODY has a clue who this concerns.

----------


## bowie

> I have just read some of the posts on the other plannet,and it seems NOBODY has a clue who this concerns.


Naw, HH, some folk know exactly who it concerns - the ones who are poised to force it down our throats - 


*Guidelines for applying Health Insurance for Long Stay Visa in Thailand*

Each applicant, including spouse and children, must hold Thai Health Insurance policy sold by authorized insurance companies only.
Each applicant, including spouse and children, must have their own Health Insurance Certificate to present during visa application process.
Health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for Inpatient, and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient.

Each applicant, including spouse and children, must ensure that he/she has always held the Thai health insurance policy throughout the granted period of long stay visa. Failure to meet this requirement will be considered as disqualified to the standard requirements under the announcement by Department of Consular Affairs, and the granted visa will be withdrew.

All applicants must contact authorized insurance companies directly to apply for Thai health insurance policy. Any inquiries on completing Insurance application can be addressed at each insurance company.
This's TGIA website. It's being provided as a convenience and for information purposes only. TGIA bears no responsibility for the accuracy, legality or content of the external site or for that of subsequent links. Contact the external site for answers to questions regarding its content.
© 2019 - Thai General Insurance Association. All rights reserved.
223 Soi Ruamrudee, Wireless Road, Lumpini, Pathumwan, Bangkok 10330 Tel: 66-2256-6032-8 Fax: 66-2256-6039-40

The listed companies who participate in this scheme.

THE VIRIYAH INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
The Viriyah Insurance (Public) Company Limited is Thailands number one non-life insurance company that has maintained the leadership in the industry over a long period of time. The company is recognized for its extensive experiences of service quality, worthwhile protection, and transparency. Health insurance is one of our prides that we provide a range of cover to suit your needs and provide you the standard of health claims service that delivers the protection and cares when you need it most.

BANGKOK INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
Bangkok Insurance Public Company Limited is a leading non-life insurer in Thailand offering comprehensive health insurance products with a nationwide network of contracted hospitals as well as a wide range of other non-life insurance products. With over 70 years of operations in Thailand, we are the preferred non life insurer in the country. Our dedicated staff is always ready to assist you as Your Caring Partner.

AXA INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
AXA Insurance PCL was established in Thailand in July 1998 and AXA Group is the major shareholder of our company. The companys operation has been expanding steadily over the years through the strong support from the shareholders, business partners, insurance brokers, and agents including the fast growing number of satisfied customers. The company is committed to the excellence by being available, attentive and reliable to our customers.

PACIFIC CROSS HEALTH INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
Pacific Cross International Limited has specialized in health insurance in Asia for over 45 years. It owns several reputable health insurance companies of the past and present (Blue Cross Insurance Incorporation in Philippines, Blue Cross Thailand and Hongkong). Pacific Cross Health Insurance PCL is part of the Pacific Cross Group, the leading travel and medical insurance specialist in Asia.

THAIVIVAT INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
With 66 years experience and supported by leading global reinsurers, Thaivivat Insurance Pcl. developed this Health product especially for the long-term visitor to Thailand. Serviced around the clock by our multilingual claims and assistance center. Because your Health is our Priority.

NAVAKIJ INSURANCE PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED
For over 84 years, The Navakij Insurance Public Company Limited is professional Thai non-life insurance company. There are 28 service offices located nationwide.



Now, for clarification purposes, as of today, the only place I could find that specifically requires the Medical Insurance (see below) is the 5/5 ten year Long Stay Visa (offered in the US)  and, no, I did NOT check other countries and/or embassies.

*https://thaiembdc.org/non-immigrant-visa-category-o-x-long-stay/*

*USA Washington DC Royal Thai Embassy* 
*Non-Immigrant Visa Category O-X (long stay)*
*Purpose of Visit*
This type of visa may be issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 10 year without the intention of working. Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 5 years each time (total 10 years). Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited.

*Eligibility*

 Applicant must be aged 50 years and over (on the day of submitting application) Applicants must be nationals and passport holders of eligible countries, namely; Japan, Australia, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Netherland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, Canada and United States. Applicant must have a bank deposit of no less than 3 million bahts in Thailand or a bank deposit of no less than 1.8 million bahts and annual income of no less than 1.2 million bahts. Such amount must be maintained in bank deposit in full for at least one year, and keep at no less than 1.5 million bahts thereafter.* Applicant must have a Thai health insurance for the duration of stay, with coverage for outpatient treatment of no less than 40,000 bahts and inpatient treatment of no less than 400,000 bahts.* Applicant not prohibited from entering the Kingdom as provided by the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) Having no criminal record in Thailand and the country of the applicants nationality and residence. Not having prohibitive diseases ( Leprosy, Tuberculosis, drug addiction, Elephantiasis, third phase of Syphilis) as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 B.E. 2535

----------


## Fondles

so those listed companies in the scheme, If Iam applying for a non Immi O-A here in Aus how do I sort a policy with them ?

----------


## Stumpy

^ Ten Hut.  Time for some to start packing up.  Let's just charter a plane... :Smile:

----------


## Headworx

^Obviously you're tongue in cheek but seriously, I can see this being the last straw for a lot of people including (A) those that are un-insurable or simply can't afford it and (B) those that have insurance and/or _can_ afford it but are getting sick to the teeth of these retarded fucking imbeciles creating more hoops that Foreigners have to jump thru for the privilege of living here while putting X amount of millions of Baht per year into their economy.

----------


## baldrick

> From the charts - the 75 and older crowd'll be paying 100k/annum for 400k in coverage


what insurance is provided by an elite card ? it might be a better option

----------


## Stumpy

> ^Obviously you're tongue in cheek but seriously, I can see this being the last straw for a lot of people including (A) those that are un-insurable or simply can't afford it and (B) those that have insurance and/or _can_ afford it but are getting sick to the teeth of these retarded fucking imbeciles creating more hoops that Foreigners have to jump thru for the privilege of living here while putting X amount of millions of Baht per year into their economy.


Yeah I am just tryin to toss in some fun. I have empathy for all that might be impacted by this new rule change that creates complete upheaval. But lets be honest here. A HUGE number of people whinged, bitched  and moaned about wanting everything western like it was back home. Well it appears they listened to it all and now are taking measures to make many feel right at home.  :Smile:   This will undoubtedly be very uncomfortable for many as viewed by the knee jerk responses on TVF. Funny though, Now they complain about the country improving itself. I guess the majority of foreigners wanted improvements that would not affect them. Just doesn't work that way.

Over time, like all evolving countries, govt will continually change the rules to increase cash flow within their system to pay for industrialization. Free enterprise will take over. This is just the tip of the iceberg. But by the time its all hashed out and the dust settles I will have had the Burn me mooban party...

----------


## bowie

> I can see this being the last straw for a lot of people


Yes - if, Thailand does, in fact, make having medical insurance mandatory, it will disqualify folks - many will not be able to meet the criteria to receive "permission" to stay in Thailand. So Be It. The folks who will be hurt are the ones who have established roots and/or have family here. 

On the Thai side, the folks that will be hurt are the ones who make their living off of us, and, of course, Family.

So, first, the only requirement for medical insurance today is for the 5/5 ten year long term visa (which, by the way, requires THB 3M tied up in the bank. So, those who are required to have medical insurance as a qualification can probably afford it without a second thought. 

Now, the Thai's may well have discussed making medical insurance mandatory, and, I seriously hope, that the issue of family disruptions which could/will result have been brought up, reviewed, and accounted for. Again, nobody (well, none of us) knows anything official as of yet. I would hope that for humanitarian reasons, an out is provided for family folk. It would be a serious flaw if families did in fact get forced to repatriate and/or get broken up over an issue as "minor" as healthcare in Thailand. It may happen that one solution will be a mass exodus from "retirement" extensions to "spousal/family" extensions. Hmm... more work for the IO's.

But - as it stands now, only the 5/5 ten year long term visa has a mandatory insurance requirement.

----------


## charleyboy

> so those listed companies in the scam,



Fixed that for you.

----------


## Dragonfly

TBH, they are doing a lot of these farangs a favor, things are going to be more ugly soon, let the weak and the old move out before it's too late

----------


## Fondles

> Fixed that for you.


Hasnt been implemented yet so how is it a scam ?

----------


## Stumpy

Right now all this is complete idle talk. There is nothing really to react to. Pull up a chair, have a drink, reeeeeeelaxx...

And for Gods sake, do not jump off any rooftops.....Its a bit premature....

----------


## Pragmatic

> Right now all this is complete idle talk.


 Is it?



> *Cabinet approves mandatory health insurance for long-stay visas*[COLOR=#6C757D !important]PHUKET: The Ministry of Public Health (MoPH) has announced that Cabinet has approved mandatory health insurance as a new requirement for all foreigners staying in the country on one-year Non-Immigrant O-A “visas”, or “permits-to-stay” - better known simply as ’retirement visas’.[/COLOR]
> healthimmigrationeconomics
> 
> Read more at https://www.thephuketnews.com/cabine...gV1e0ZETcB1.99

----------


## nidhogg

> Keep paying the Thai SS after you finish work and your covered, mine is 400b a month.


Was not sure I could continue to pay after leaving work, so nice to know.

However, I do wonder whether it will be counted as acceptable during the visa process given how literal the immigration officers can be sometimes.

----------


## Stumpy

> Is it?


Well to me it is. Sure they have the proposed plan and they have it some what outlined. There is no implementation date. Until that happens with the new Thai executive order its just talk.

----------


## Stumpy

> Was not sure I could continue to pay after leaving work, so nice to know.


Yes it is convenient and good to know. Currently I pay in max for Thai SS.

----------


## Luigi

What gets me are the people that think they have some sort of right to live here.  :Dunno: 


I'm 68. 
Possibly a pervert.
On state benefits.
Can't afford health insurance, but want to come to your country to live, for no other reason than I want to.

----------


## AntRobertson

> I'm 68. 
> Possibly a pervert.
> On state benefits.
> Can't afford health insurance, but want to come to your country to live, for no other reason than I want to.
> And I'll also incessantly bad your people and nation while I'm here...Likely whilst fondling a girl young enough to be my granddaughter


FTFY.  :Smile:

----------


## bowie

> I'm 68. 
> Possibly a pervert.
> On state benefits.
> Can't afford health insurance, but want to come to your country to live, for no other reason than I want to.



Well, Lu, when the boys in brown show up at your door - you won't have to wonder why.  :Smile:

----------


## Luigi

The secret's out.  :Smile:

----------


## nidhogg

> What gets me are the people that think they have some sort of right to live here. 
> 
> 
> I'm 68. 
> Possibly a pervert.
> On state benefits.
> Can't afford health insurance, but want to come to your country to live, for no other reason than I want to.


Had you down as a bit younger to be honest Lu....

----------


## bowie

Anyway, for what its worth - from that "other" site:


The requirement for mandatory health insurance appears to only affect those applying for a Non-Immigrant Visa OA.

According to the announcement on the Ministry of Public Health (MoPH) website, it does not affect anyone who stays in Thailand on an extension of stay based on retirement, which is often incorrectly referred to as a ‘retirement visa’.

Extensions of stay are not visas. Most retirees who stay in Thailand do so on an ‘extension of stay based on retirement’.

----------


## tomcat

...^yep...much ado about nothing due to poor initial reporting in the local media: https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/110..._campaign=news

----------


## Pragmatic

> Extensions of stay are not visas


 Yes they are. Any entry in a passport giving permission to stay is called a 'visa'. So, sorry to disagree.

----------


## bowie

> So, sorry to disagree.


You're not disagreeing with me, TV's terminology

----------


## bowie

A bit more - First O-X's set to add O-A's - meeting again next week - see what happens on the 22nd  



https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/thailand-set-to-deny-visas-to-retirees-without-insurance/


*Thailand set to deny visas to retirees without insurance*

By Teirra Kamolvattanavith 
May. 15, 2019 

Older foreigners living in Thailand will lose their visas without adequate health insurance under new rules still being written and yet to go into effect.

The Public Health Ministry and related agencies will meet again May 22 to discuss a proposal to mandate health insurance for all long-stay expats over 50 applying for one-year retirement visas.

Though one representative said fewer than half of the regs have been written, the broad outlines are clear: Retirement visa applicants must possess health insurance certificates for policies covering at least THB40,000 annually for outpatient treatment and no less than THB400,000 a year in inpatient costs.

Health officials believe the insurance mandate is justified by the increased health issues – and higher costs – of older expats, according to a representative from the ministry’s Bureau of International Health who asked not to be identified.

While the new rules were approved on April 2, the ministry has yet to finalize the details, said the representative, who said that not even half were written when the last meeting was convened in late April.

Failure to meet the new requirement will lead to the annulment or rejection of one’s visa.

=The new requirement would apply to foreigners 50 and up in the country on the O-A retirement visa. It is already mandated to obtain an O-X visa – another long-term visa introduced three years ago for those 50 and up that is good for five years.

Employment under either retirement visa type is strictly prohibited. 

Foreigners will be able to buy insurance from participating companies – including Thaivivat Insurance Public Health Co. Ltd., Pacific Cross Health Insurance Co. Ltd and Bangkok Insurance Public Co. Ltd. – via the Thai General Insurance Association. Premiums and the cost of the insurance depends on the company and specific plans chosen.

Applicants must contact authorized insurance companies directly to obtain a policy. Questions about the application can be directed to the insurance companies. 

Any foreigner wishing to use health insurance purchased overseas must ensure it meets the minimum coverage requirements. Details regarding overseas policies are still being hashed out.

For more information about the visa and the documents required to apply, visit the Foreign Affairs Ministry’s online consular services.

----------


## Norton

> it does not affect anyone who stays in Thailand on an extension of stay based on retirement


Exactly what Immigration in Roi Et told me when I inquired about the health insurance requirement.

"No K. Norton, does not apply to you. Only difference this year from last you will have to get statement from bank showing at least 65,000 baht per month transferred into your account rather than the US Embassy letter you used last year. Because of some confusion, you only need show 65k baht into your bank for 3 months prior to your application for extension to stay."

When in doubt ask your local office. Not rocket science. End of the day, your local office has discretion and the final say anyway.

Note, the answer you get at your office may differ from mine.

----------


## Pragmatic

> When in doubt ask your local office. Not rocket science


 No, and the officers in there aren't rocket scientists. I once did like you Mr Norton. I got an answer and followed it through on my next visit. On my next visit the twat who answered my question denied saying it.

----------


## Norton

> No, and the officers in there aren't rocket scientists. I once did like you Mr Norton. I got an answer and followed it through on my next visit. On my next visit the twat who answered my question denied saying it.


There are without doubt offices and officers who pull crap such as above. I have never run across it. 30 years here dealing with 4 different offices. Yes there have been misunderstandings but none that could not be sorted in short order.

Re, the OP, extension to stay does not require health insurance. 

Thread closed as far as my interest is concerned.  :Smile:

----------


## Stumpy

> Re, the OP, extension to stay does not require health insurance.


At this time that appears correct. My wife and I talked last night about this and she called her friend at the Immigration office. Her understanding is it will apply for applicants requesting a NEW long stay visa. The extension to stay is not a "New" visa request or application for hence why you do not do a medical background check and all the other info. One thing she did say FWIIW, that there is still uncertainty that the new VISA rule would apply to O-A marriage applicants or if it is just aimed at retirees over 50. 

Disclaimer: Above is based on one person's comment and interpretation in my province. Your mileage will vary.... :Smile:

----------


## Seekingasylum

> What gets me are the people that think they have some sort of right to live here. 
> 
> 
> I'm 68. 
> Possibly a pervert.
> On state benefits.
> Can't afford health insurance, but want to come to your country to live, for no other reason than I want to.


But of course if you marry a Thai woman we will let you settle and buy a condo in her name after you file a document declaring that your money was not used in the purchase and then we will force you to transfer stupidly high amounts of dosh every year even if you do not need half that fucking amount to live in your own fucking property which of course is not your fucking property even though you fucking paid for it and then we are going to stiff you for a glorified exorbitant immigration fee dressed up as a fucking uselessly overpriced medical insurance policy which will only cover you for a fucking ingrown toenail removal and if you are 70 years old then because you are fucking uninsurable anyway we will force you to transfer even more money every year on the basis of a fucking whim.

Thainess.

----------


## Stumpy

> But of course if you marry a Thai woman we will let you settle and buy a condo in her name after you file a document declaring that your money was not used in the purchase and then we will force you to transfer stupidly high amounts of dosh every year even if you do not need half that fucking amount to live in your own fucking property which of course is not your fucking property even though you fucking paid for it and then we are going to stiff you for a glorified exorbitant immigration fee dressed up as a fucking uselessly overpriced medical insurance policy which will only cover you for a fucking ingrown toenail removal and if you are 70 years old then because you are fucking uninsurable anyway we will force you to transfer even more money every year on the basis of a fucking whim.
> 
> Thainess.


So eloquently stated....

 :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

Except for why not just buy the condo in your own name... *rant nipped in the bud*  :Very Happy:

----------


## bowie

aww, come on SA...

naught more than economically challenged Thailand sucking on the tit of us benevolent Falang - 

victims of their own birthright - imagine being born in the slums of Bangkok, just, how would you crawl outta that sewer?

----------


## Seekingasylum

It is clear that the mandatory health insurance requirement will be required of everyone over 50 legally resident in the Kingdom, either on an annual O-A visa or extension. If it is right that an inability to submit evidence of a qualifying insurance policy will ensure failure of any application to remain or will _nullify_ an existing extension then I should imagine that after implementation of the new requirement the thousands currently benefiting from existing extensions will be asked to produce evidence of a qualifying policy when they next attend for their 90 day report.
The thing is, as I have already alluded in earlier comments, the suggested medical cover is in fact useless to most farang but it is extremely bad value in offering insurance to the value of a a limited sum only a mere ten times the premium. The only institution I have found who will offer a policy meeting immigration requirements is the Kasikorn Bank - 30,000 baht premium for cover limited to 500,000 baht. That is appalling value. The problem of course is that over-60s are subject to so many exclusions, limitations and caveats that a decent policy offering any sort of cover acceptable in the real world would ensure a minimum premium of around 150,000 - 200,000 baht. After you hit 70 then you are pretty much uninsurable. 

This is the thin end of the wedge for most retirees who must now consider that to settle here it will more than likely entail a bond deposit of around 2 million baht in addition to evidence of income covering the ordinary daily living expenses. That in practice is the way things are going.

----------


## Stumpy

Honestly, I prefer that my wife own the land versus the US way that the bank does. Easier not to pay her.....Oh shit, never mind, she owns it outright again unlike the US where can't and you pay exorbitant property tax until you die or you lose it with a lien against you by the govt....Pick your poison.   :Smile:

----------


## bowie

> This is the thin end of the wedge for most retirees who must now consider that to settle here


The idea is they do NOT want you, or any other Falang, to "settle" here. Visit as a tourist, drop you vacation funds, check out the temples and the girls, but, do NOT stay here. If you spend more than a few weeks time here you see behind the "Land of Smiles" facade and realize what it really is all about -

----------


## Stumpy

> It is clear


Is it?

Bottom line people will find the lowest cost insurance pkg to meet the requirements. I doubt many are really looking at the coverage as most will never use it anyway as they usually pay their own way. I know I do and will.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Except for why not just buy the condo in your own name... *rant nipped in the bud*


Because in most cases the condo in the 49% foreign ownership allocation is double or more the cost of a condo in the Thai allocation and may not therefore be economically attractive to someone married to a Thai. Of course, singleton farang have no choice but mostly they seem to buy in lower scale developments.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Is it?
> 
> Bottom line people will find the lowest cost insurance pkg to meet the requirements. I doubt many are really looking at the coverage as most will never use it anyway as they usually pay their own way. I know I do and will.


As a glorified immigration fee the Kasikorn policy at 35,000 baht for the over 60 is the only one I could find that meets the 400,000 + 40,000 threshold but there is one fucking huge caveat and that is, it is only available to farang married to Thai. Singleton Joes currently over 60 happily ensconced in their own modest condo hitherto managing to scrape by on what were reasonable incomes now ravaged by poor exchange rates will be fucked. In the ass.

----------


## Stumpy

> The idea is they do NOT want you, or any other Falang, to "settle" here. Visit as a tourist, drop you vacation funds, check out the temples and the girls, but, do NOT stay here. If you spend more than a few weeks time here you see behind the "Land of Smiles" facade and realize what it really is all about -


There is likely some truth behind that Bowie. Plus I have to believe that they do not want to deal with the dregs that wash up here that try and eek out a living on $50 dollars a day. They are the ones that they want out.  Plus look at all the foreigner mafia type gangs that have taken over many of the local tourist spots, Russians, Arabs, Germans etc. They can't really kick them out so they seem to be establishing rules and regs to force them out. Once the rule is in place they can deny a Visa.

----------


## Fondles

> At this time that appears correct. My wife and I talked last night about this and she called her friend at the Immigration office. Her understanding is it will apply for applicants requesting a NEW long stay visa. The extension to stay is not a "New" visa request or application for hence why you do not do a medical background check and all the other info. One thing she did say FWIIW, that there is still uncertainty that the new VISA rule would apply to O-A marriage applicants or if it is just aimed at retirees over 50. 
> 
> Disclaimer: Above is based on one person's comment and interpretation in my province. Your mileage will vary....


I thought the marriage visa was an O.... over 50 long stay is an O-A.

----------


## Fondles

> It is clear that the mandatory health insurance requirement will be required of everyone over 50 legally resident in the Kingdom, either on an annual O-A visa or extension. If it is right that an inability to submit evidence of a qualifying insurance policy will ensure failure of any application to remain or will _nullify_ an existing extension then I should imagine that after implementation of the new requirement the thousands currently benefiting from existing extensions will be asked to produce evidence of a qualifying policy when they next attend for their 90 day report.
> The thing is, as I have already alluded in earlier comments, the suggested medical cover is in fact useless to most farang but it is extremely bad value in offering insurance to the value of a a limited sum only a mere ten times the premium. The only institution I have found who will offer a policy meeting immigration requirements is the Kasikorn Bank - 30,000 baht premium for cover limited to 500,000 baht. That is appalling value. The problem of course is that over-60s are subject to so many exclusions, limitations and caveats that a decent policy offering any sort of cover acceptable in the real world would ensure a minimum premium of around 150,000 - 200,000 baht. After you hit 70 then you are pretty much uninsurable. 
> 
> This is the thin end of the wedge for most retirees who must now consider that to settle here it will more than likely entail a bond deposit of around 2 million baht in addition to evidence of income covering the ordinary daily living expenses. That in practice is the way things are going.


Does the medical insurance have to be from a Thai company ?

----------


## Stumpy

> I thought the marriage visa was an O.... over 50 long stay is an O-A.


My understanding as well. But the audience seems to lump it all under O-A.

----------


## nidhogg

> Does the medical insurance have to be from a Thai company ?


Apparently, yes.

"must hold Thai Health Insurance policy sold by authorized insurance companies only"

Post 45 this thread.

----------


## Stumpy

Hmm. I just browsed the Thai Embassy VISA section and I might as apply for the permanent resident Visa. Eliminates all the other BS

*Permanent Resident Visa*

To qualify for this visa, you must have stayed in Thailand for 3 consecutive with the one-year-visa extensions. If you are married to a Thai for 5 years, you must be earning 30,000 Baht/month. If you are single, at least your monthly income should be 80,000 Baht. You just simply present your three years of personal tax statements proving the above-stated income requirements to qualify for a Permanent Resident Visa in Thailand.



On Edit, Yes to Fondles point, If you are married it is considered an O  Visa not the O-A long stay. 

https://www.thaiembassy.sg/visa-matt.../types-of-visa

----------


## Fondles

> Apparently, yes.
> 
> "must hold Thai Health Insurance policy sold by authorized insurance companies only"
> 
> Post 45 this thread.


Given they do not issue O-A visa's in Thailand that gunna make it hard for most to obtain the insurance.

----------


## Fondles

> Hmm. I just browsed the Thai Embassy VISA section and I might as apply for the permanent resident Visa. Eliminates all the other BS
> 
> *Permanent Resident Visa*
> 
> To qualify for this visa, you must have stayed in Thailand for 3 consecutive with the one-year-visa extensions. If you are married to a Thai for 5 years, you must be earning 30,000 Baht/month. If you are single, at least your monthly income should be 80,000 Baht. You just simply present your three years of personal tax statements proving the above-stated income requirements to qualify for a Permanent Resident Visa in Thailand.


I considered this and decided against it as it looked to be an expensive long drawn out process with lots of red tape.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Hmm. I just browsed the Thai Embassy VISA section and I might as apply for the permanent resident Visa. Eliminates all the other BS
> 
> *Permanent Resident Visa*
> 
> To qualify for this visa, you must have stayed in Thailand for 3 consecutive with the one-year-visa extensions. If you are married to a Thai for 5 years, you must be earning 30,000 Baht/month. If you are single, at least your monthly income should be 80,000 Baht. You just simply present your three years of personal tax statements proving the above-stated income requirements to qualify for a Permanent Resident Visa in Thailand.


 :rofl: 

You surely have to be one fucking naive twat.

Are you American or what?

----------


## Stumpy

> You surely have to be one fucking naive twat.
> 
> Are you American or what?


I was being a smart ass you knucklehead...

There is no such thing as no BS here... :Smile:

----------


## nidhogg

> Given they do not issue O-A visa's in Thailand that gunna make it hard for most to obtain the insurance.


Think nobody has suggested this is a well thought out plan!

----------


## Seekingasylum

You mean that was irony? 

I don't quite think you have a handle on that, many of your chaps experience this difficulty.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Incidentally, where is my scathing but insightful riposte to the septic's rubbish?

----------


## Switch

You chose to commit to Thailand by marrying a local and investing in Thai property. You did this when jumpers were goalposts. Why would you expect any kind of exemption from them, when they move the goalposts, and issue new caveats for your permission to remain?

You and your wingman have been suckered, and no amount of your word salad can alleviate or change your prospects.

Get out while you still can. Please, do not come here. No naive angry old wankers needed.

----------


## PAG

> I thought the marriage visa was an O.... over 50 long stay is an O-A.


No, an Non O visa is a 90 day tourist visa that can be extended for 12 months (in Thailand) for reasons of retirement, marriage to a Thai, or having dependents etc, with all of the well known financial criteria that supports the differing extensions.

A Non O-A visa can only be applied for in the applicants home country/country of permanent residence (not within Thailand).   An O-A is valid for 12 months, the financial proof can be that of home country banking/income.   There are already additional requirements for an O-A visa, such as medical and police clearance certificates.

----------


## Seekingasylum

And where do you live, Chas?

The thing is old boy, my bases are covered, but when I need to find sanctuary elsewhere rather than return home, as in some third world coon state, I'll give you a call.

----------


## headhunter

just done my 90day report,in all of 2minutes there i never heard any mention of anything.unless they check the information they require from your passport.
entered thailand with a NON-O VISA,have recieved 9 yearly extensions of stay based on RETIREMENT.

----------


## Headworx

> Plus look at all the foreigner mafia type gangs that have taken over many of the local tourist spots, Russians, Arabs, Germans etc.


Jesus Christ where did you get that bullshit from, Thai Visa?. 
Foreign mafia types...  :rofl: 




> They can't really kick them out...


Oh yes they can, easily. A 100% true story on how that works: Some time ago a good friend who owns some very successful establishments in Bangkok was approached by a small crew of Russian (or Eastern Blok) "mafia types" who told him to pay them a weekly due or there'd be trouble. He said no problem, come every Sunday night. He then called the bagman for the only _real_ mafia in Thailand that he paid each week and told him to tell his bosses that there'd be no more weekly payments, as he had to give all their money to Russians now and they were coming to collect on Sunday night. Long story short, these wannabes were given a choice of spending a few decades in jail for the drugs and guns they were carrying (well they would have been carrying them by the time they got to the police stn) or they could all be shot in the head a few times, or they could all leave the country in under 12hrs. Guess which option they took?.

----------


## PAG

> And where do you live?


Is the question to me?   If so, Phuket.   I'm now on my 11th extension, the previous 10 I've done retirement (though married for 10 years this coming December), this one (which I'll pick up next week) is the first going the marriage route for the greater financial flexibility of when I bring money into Thailand.

----------


## headhunter

> Hasnt been implemented yet so how is it a scam ?


according to the news [nation] it comes into force in JULY.

----------


## Norton

> It is clear that the mandatory health insurance requirement will be required of everyone over 50 legally resident in the Kingdom, either on an annual O-A visa or extension


Wrong. 

https://teakdoor.com/thai-visas-and-v...ml#post3945288 (Health Insurance Now Required for Long Stay Expats)

----------


## Fondles

> according to the news [nation] it comes into force in JULY.


My bad, I thought we was still in May.

----------


## PAG

> I can smell the bullshit dribbling down your chin from here.


OK, what visa/extension do you currently have?   Non Imm O visas are valid for 90 days, can be issued internal or external  to Thailand (can be 12 months if multi entry, though must leave/re-enter the country every 90 days).   Non Imm O visas can be extended for 12 months through reasons of retirement/marriage/dependents, with their respective financial criteria.

A Non Imm O-A visa is only issued external to Thailand, valid for 12 months, essentially the same financial criteria as for a Non Imm O extension based on retirement.   Additional requirements are medical and police clearance certificates, and shortly medical insurance to the published parameters.

----------


## PAG

> according to the news [nation] it comes into force in JULY.


Ah, that must be the same Nation whose articles are now littered every paragraph with Expat health insurance ads.

----------


## Fondles

> OK, what visa/extension do you currently have?   Non Imm O visas are valid for 90 days, can be issued internal or external  to Thailand (can be 12 months if multi entry, though must leave/re-enter the country every 90 days).   Non Imm O visas can be extended for 12 months through reasons of retirement/marriage/dependents, with their respective financial criteria.
> 
> A Non Imm O-A visa is only issued external to Thailand, valid for 12 months, essentially the same financial criteria as for a Non Imm O extension based on retirement.   Additional requirements are medical and police clearance certificates, and shortly medical insurance to the published parameters.


Thanks for the spiel of what is commonly known.

Please explain how a Non immigrant O visa is a Tourist visa.

----------


## PAG

> Thanks for the spiel of what is commonly known.
> 
> Please explain how a Non immigrant O visa is a Tourist visa.


You're right, it's not a tourist visa, which is of course valid for 60 days, and can be extended for a further 30 days.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Norton, it may be that the introduction of mandatory health insurance is targeted at Non Imm O-A visa applicants in a move to make them less desirable as an alternative to the usual route of Non Imm 'O' followed by an extension application under the ramped up proof of income/funds regime. The thing is, why? It yields no great dividend and affects a tiny proportion of residents - Terry is the only one here under the O-A visa and as he rightly observes his category tends to be folk whose reliance on charitable Thai healthcare is as likely as Prag digging chicks with dicks.
As much as I would like to think otherwise, this is imminent for all.

----------


## taxexile

switch



> You chose to commit to Thailand by marrying a local and investing in Thai property. You did this when jumpers were goalposts. Why would you expect any kind of exemption from them, when they move the goalposts, and issue new caveats for your permission to remain?
> 
> You and your wingman have been suckered, and no amount of your word salad can alleviate or change your prospects.
> 
> Get out while you still can. Please, do not come here. No naive angry old wankers needed.


First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

once they have made life difficult or impossible for retirees (or angry old wankers as you call us), they will concentrate their efforts on those foreigners next in line, i.e. those with work permits and those with wives.

personally i dont think this insurance nonsense will ever come to pass or if it does there will be cheap workarounds. 

the figures for financial losses suffered by hospitals seems bullshit to me. every time i have been to a thai hospital, private or government, and before i have even sat in the queue to see the quack, i have had to present my passport, my visa has been checked and photocopied, i have been photographed and i have had to sign the photocopies, and it is almost impossible to leave the hospital after the consultation or treatment without being either filmed or coughing up....... and we are already charged up to 30% more than locals for the same treatment by the same often arrogant unlistening quacks.

and if the thai police are able to summon the manpower and resources necessary to apprehend a cctv identified shoplifter or beer mat thief before they exit suwannaphum airport, then surely they should be able to prevent an infirm geriatric from exiting the country in order to avoid payment.

----------


## Norton

> As much as I would like to think otherwise, this is imminent for all.


Highly possible as the rules do change occasionaly but as with most things here in our home away from home, I focus on what need be done to navigate only the next bureaucratic hurdle. Find it far less stressfull than worrying what might be long term.

Now that kids have been educated and off earning their own way in life, the wife and I are able and free to stay or go from Thailand. However, I am ever mindful of the phase "out of the frying pan into the fire" so before running off to greener pastures it would take a fair bit more than finding a way to comply with a "health insurance" rule.




> personally i dont think this insurance nonsense will ever come to pass or if it does there will be cheap workarounds.


My thinking in line with yours Tax.

----------


## headhunter

what i cant get my head around IS,how come the 3main perpetrators of these proposals can come up with the story of expats on certain visa's are a burden on the health system,WHERE are their no's of farangs on an A-O VISA who are fucking off without paying their hospital  bills,is it 1,5,10, or is it in their thick sculls THOUSANDS.
prposals [22dec.2018] put forward to the next cabinet meeting.

----------


## Pragmatic

Wouldn't surprise me if some cnut at the top of the tree has been fiddling the books. So to cover up the deficit he's decided to blame Johnny Foreigner.

----------


## bowie

> story of expats on certain visa's are a burden on the health system


 
HH: 

For what its worth, actual figures concerning us deadbeat Foreigners taking advantage of our Hosts. Sourced from the department of health.


from The Nation article Mandatory health insurance for retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July By Chularat Saengpassa May 16, 2019

Mandatory health insurance for retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July

Bad medical debts from expats have been cited in the move to make health insurance mandatory for foreigners aged 50 and above who are living in Thailand on a one-year long-stay visa.

*2016* 
Number of foreign visitors: 32 million
Number of medical visits by them: 2.6 million
Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 71,288
Number of unpaid medical bills: 667,000
Outstanding debt: Bt380 million

*2017* 
Number of foreign visitors: 35 million
Number medical visits by them: 3.3 million
Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 68,696
Number of unpaid medical bills: 565,000
Outstanding debt: Bt346 million

*2018*
Number of foreign visitors: 38 million
Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million
Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 80,950
Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000
Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

*Proposed mandatory health insurance* 
Bt40,000 coverage for outpatient treatment
Bt400,000 coverage for inpatient treatments

_Source_:_Department_ of _Health Service Support_


So, analysis/recap: three years 16-18 Thailand had 105 million visitors who made a total of 9.32 medical visits. 

Of the 9.32 million visits  7.408M medical bills were paid. And, 1.912 Million bills went unpaid totaling THB 1,031,000,000. Yup, tis a lot of money. At todays rate of 31.16/USD = a three-year total of USD $33M or @ $11M/year. 

Now, no reasoning or explanation given on just how approximately 20% of the medical care recipients were able to skip out of the hospital or country without paying their bills. Something seriously wrong with their, the Thailand Medical Services billing and collection system.   

However, to amplify on this  the Thais proposed solution is to saddle the O-A visa holders with a mandatory health insurance requirement. 

hmm lets get a bit deeper int this  the O-A visa holders account for, now get this, a grand total of 220,934/9.32M = @ 2.5% of the total number of visitors. 


*Anybody else see a bit of a flaw in this logic?*

----------


## Stumpy

> what i cant get my head around IS,how come the 3main perpetrators of these proposals can come up with the story of expats on certain visa's are a burden on the health system,WHERE are their no's of farangs on an A-O VISA who are fucking off without paying their hospital  bills,is it 1,5,10, or is it in their thick sculls THOUSANDS.
> prposals [22dec.2018] put forward to the next cabinet meeting.


They have absolutely NO DATA to support the claims HH. In fact I suspect us long term guys have little, to no, impact to the cost they claim. While I have no data either, my standing is that there are many Tourists that arrive that do stupid shit and get hurt and then potentially skip out. I suspect more are accidents then actual sickness or ailments.

Also to note, to this date every time I have visited a hospital (3 times or so) for basic ailments, I had to pay in full before I left. I know a few guys that had to have major surgeries and they too had to put a 30% deposit down and the balance upon be released. When do all these medical events happen that foreigners skip out and do not pay. Now I will say that all the Suicides, attempted suicides that leave people in hospitals with huge bills do leave the cost with Thailand. 

They will never show any data because they do not have it. They are just following suit of other developed countries or again I mentioned, its an opportunity to force folks out that they want.  I am not against requiring medical insurance or showing a financial bond in the event of an emergency. It makes sense. I always felt that if I could not financially take care of myself then its time to die anyway. I have no intention of spending countless thousands to prolong my life.

----------


## Stumpy

@ Bowie. I saw that data sometime back but none of  it breaks down the tally of how many O-A long stay folks contribute to the loss to Thailand. You have to speculate a % that might. I also question the data because they mandate Foreigners of all races pay before the service is performed. So how in the hell do they 600,000 unpaid bills. Someone is doctoring numbers to support their decision.

The fact of the matter is they want to implement the new rule to control who stays and who goes and generate a revenue stream for insurance companies.  Next up is the Lawyer rush working on contingency

----------


## cyrille

As far as many/most Thais are concerned, all farang are tourists. 

The length of stay can vary from a few hours to decades, but that is what they remain.

Those at the far end of that spectrum are less desirable because they have less money, are less good looking and are probably dodgy if they like Thailand. The lowest of the low may even speak Thai and be wary of rip offs.

Once one is reconciled to this perception, and the nationwide insecurities they are based on, things get a lot less stressful.  :Very Happy: 

These changes will either never happen or will be sporadically 'enforced', with at least one visa outlet where they are never enforced at all.

----------


## Stumpy

> As far as many/most Thais are concerned, all farang are tourists.


You are absolutely right, Maybe not tourists but clearly visitors. How long one wants to stay is up to them. They do not care if you come or go. Long stayers really contribute very little, especially married to a Thai. They always do things cheaply looking for discounts etc. Tourism is where the money is and they will always cater to it.

----------


## headhunter

thanks once again bowie,no mention in the report by the dept of health how much of the debt is down to TOURISTS.
most or a big % of expats here on long term visa's as they call them,have some sort of assets,dont they take into account their partners can cover most bills if needed.
so why don't they take this into account,a married farang is entitled to 50% of any assets that their partners accured through marriage.
they have the no's of 305million bht.debt so last yr.they had 38million tourists,they are NOT expats on long term visa's.
it does seem those calcalators they bought ought to go with them bomb detectors.
I just wonder what will happen when a farang on the same type of visa with a 1yr.extension hasnt or not had the eqv.of a 400,000bht.balance in their acc.
because I havnt seen the reason given by immigration WHY 800k.2months before then 3months after ext.then a balance of 400k.for the rest of your life in a thai.bank.
because this is not only for them on retirement but all on the 800k.route.is there no mention of them that go the 400k.marriage route or is that goner come LATER.
to differate between them that are married and go the 800k.route and the tuther that go the 400k.route WHATS THE DIFFERENCE.[NONE]
I wonder if they will take into account that I have been married for 30yrs.TO THE SAME ONE.
HH.BEGINING TO ENJOY THIS FK.UP. :rofl: 

.

----------


## bowie

> These changes will either never happen or will be sporadically 'enforced'


I figure they will "implement" additional mandatory insurance requirements - enforcement, as is always the case, will remain sporadic with a variety of avenues for work arounds. The inconvenience(s) will impact legit folk. 

'tis about the money -

----------


## bowie

> expats here on long term visa's


HH, I personally believe expats here on long term visa's pay their hospital bills. My visits to Thai hospitals are always well documented by the hospital admin/staff, the billing is straight forward with detailed cost provided. And, I've always paid my full bill before leaving the hospital grounds.

The only scenario that makes sense to me is a tourist accident victim some how "verbally" scamming their way out of the hospital or some how paying fraudulently. 

The statistical figures are always manipulated to provide whatever position or point-of-view the presenter want's to aver.

----------


## headhunter

> They have absolutely NO DATA to support the claims HH. In fact I suspect us long term guys have little, to no, impact to the cost they claim. While I have no data either, my standing is that there are many Tourists that arrive that do stupid shit and get hurt and then potentially skip out. I suspect more are accidents then actual sickness or ailments.
> 
> Also to note, to this date every time I have visited a hospital (3 times or so) for basic ailments, I had to pay in full before I left. I know a few guys that had to have major surgeries and they too had to put a 30% deposit down and the balance upon be released. When do all these medical events happen that foreigners skip out and do not pay. Now I will say that all the Suicides, attempted suicides that leave people in hospitals with huge bills do leave the cost with Thailand. 
> 
> They will never show any data because they do not have it. They are just following suit of other developed countries or again I mentioned, its an opportunity to force folks out that they want.  I am not against requiring medical insurance or showing a financial bond in the event of an emergency. It makes sense. I always felt that if I could not financially take care of myself then its time to die anyway. I have no intention of spending countless thousands to prolong my life.


I am with you all the way,i can cover most if not all that comes my way,but after experiencing the incompetence of 2017/2018 at a hospital there is no way I will let the wife lower the bucket down the well.i will take it as it comes and fk.the pain.i have had the best part of 35yrs.HAPPY AS A PIG IN SHIT I wont mention my beloved dog you all read my take on him [rip].so when my time comes to join him,the only time the wife will have to fork out is for THE TRIP TO THE TEMPLE.

----------


## Pragmatic

> when my time comes to join him,the only time the wife will have to fork out is for THE TRIP TO THE TEMPLE.


 So you've not considered donating your body to medical research then? Advantage is that they pay for the cremation once they finish with you. No expenses for the missus.

----------


## Stumpy

> Advantage is that they pay for the cremation once they finish with you. No expenses for the missus.


Hey Prag, aren't you in the Mooban Burn party lottery deal in your area? I am in it with my FIL and wife. Few baht every once in awhile then when I croak they rent those portable covers, the red chairs and block off the street.

----------


## Seekingasylum

I have no idea why anyone is bothering to question the Thai motivation in this debate. 
They are simply exploiting an ill-researched and poorly understood phenomenon in order to mine more money from a lucrative source. The so-called data supporting the contention  O-A visa holders are somehow responsible in part for unpaid hospital debts is of course mere gibberish.
From an empirical study using anecdotal sources, and using our own common sense ( we have no other tools - this is Thailand after all), it is clear that the greater proportion of debt stems from tourists who incur medical expenses that are not paid either through subsequent credit card default, or, and I suspect that this is a significant factor, the patient has died after intensive care and there are no relatives or third parties available to defray those expenses. 
So, how can they mitigate this and make a profit? 
The obvious wheeze is to hammer the O-A applicants and if that is implemented efficiently and no one moans too much then extend to cover all 'O' retirees and spouses. They can't do much about the 30 million visitors but they can certainly leech off the captive farang and make a]it a condition of their extension applications.

----------


## jabir

I thought the 400k gift to capitalise the banks was on the pretence of a required backstop for potential medical needs, that the 800k scam or scheme was to ensure everyone has enough money to live on even though you're not allow to use it and must prove you can afford to throw away 800k for half of each year, and that the purge was intended to reduce/eliminate immigration corruption.
 :rofl: 

Done well, 10/10, our glorious leaders are indeed glorious and very much so.

After deep thought I reckon nearby territories that actually respect 3W needs for farang patronage have sent our glorious leaders sealed parcels of cash notes to purge foreign communities in the hope that some go their way, or perhaps there's an even more logical explanation for the latest nonsense.

----------


## Fondles

> I have no idea why anyone is bothering to question the Thai motivation in this debate. 
> They are simply exploiting an ill-researched and poorly understood phenomenon in order to mine more money from a lucrative source. The so-called data supporting the contention  O-A visa holders are somehow responsible in part for unpaid hospital debts is of course mere gibberish.
> From an empirical study using anecdotal sources, and using our own common sense ( we have no other tools - this is Thailand after all), it is clear that the greater proportion of debt stems from tourists who incur medical expenses that are not paid either through subsequent credit card default, or, and I suspect that this is a significant factor, the patient has died after intensive care and there are no relatives or third parties available to defray those expenses. 
> So, how can they mitigate this and make a profit? 
> The obvious wheeze is to hammer the O-A applicants and if that is implemented efficiently and no one moans too much then extend to cover all 'O' retirees and spouses. They can't do much about the 30 million visitors but they can certainly leech off the captive farang and make a]it a condition of their extension applications.


Gunna be fuck all money to be had from Farangs if they source their insurance from abroad....... which the dumb fucks should already have to begin with.

----------


## buriramboy

300+ million baht of debt from people skipping hospital Bill's? Things must have changed since I lived in Thailand 1999-2009 as was almost impossible to leave a hospital without paying, easier to break out of prison.

----------


## Fondles

> 300+ million baht of debt from people skipping hospital Bill's? Things must have changed since I lived in Thailand 1999-2009 as was almost impossible to leave a hospital without paying, easier to break out of prison.


Has to be gumbyment hospitals cause the private fuckers won't touch you until they know there is money to pay the bills.

When I had my stroke I sat in a wheel chair for 6 hours in ER waiting for the HR dept at my work to get funds clearance from the insurance company before they would touch me.

----------


## Stumpy

> When I had my stroke I sat in a wheel chair for 6 hours in ER waiting for the HR dept at my work to get funds clearance from the insurance company before they would touch me.


Same with a colleague that came from the US. Had a Kidney stone issue surface. I had to rush him to Bumrungrad hospital. While he was suffering in shear pain I had to coordinate payment and use my CC to get the down payment going so they could administer any meds. Once they got him received they immediately started chasing a finance guy that walks around with a portable CC scanner to come see him  They came back in a few hours with an estimate, $7,301. They charged my card for $2800 and scheduled the process. He was there 3 days. Upon release he paid the balance on his CC. Our company fully reimbursed me and later he applied it to the Company med insurance.

So its utter BS that they are having foreigners walk away without payment. However maybe there are some that charge it, then leave then stop payment on the credit card but that is hard to do as the CC company will investigate and might pay anyway.

Anyway we can go in circles on this subject, it is, what it is.  We will see the fall out later after the water somewhat clears.

----------


## bowie

Remember This: Thailand Ministry of Tourism proposing Mandatory Travel Insurance 
reported in Insurance Business Magazine August 2018


https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com...ws-108429.aspx

Thailand’s mandatory travel insurance, GPS proposal raises eyebrows
by Gabriel Olano10 Aug 2018


Thailand’s proposal to make travel insurance and GPS tracking devices mandatory for foreign tourists has been slammed by tour operators.

“If tourists want to wear [GPS trackers], fine, but it will always be voluntary and we might ask who is going to pay for the tracking bracelets and who will monitor the tracking,” a travel agent told _TTR Weekly._ “It is not entirely automated.”

According to a report, travel agencies believe the proposal is redundant, because the agencies already purchase insurance as part of the licencing requirements set forth by Thailand’s Ministry of Tourism and Sports. This includes insurance cover for the transportation used by tourists. In case of a fatality, the insurance policies would pay out around THB2 million (US$60,200).

Instead, the tour operators called on the Ministry of Tourism and Sports to fully enforce its existing guidelines for all tour companies, citing that several firms were taking shortcuts in terms of tourist cover.

This leaves independent travellers, or those not contracted to any travel agency.

The proposal calls for airports and land border checkpoints to have insurance booths to provide insurance for travellers staying more than 24 hours in Thailand, which was recently named as one of the riskiest places to travel. However, the travel agencies argued that this would only lengthen immigration queues, as officials will have to check for proof of return travel and insurance cover when checking passports.

The recent Phuket boat disaster triggered many concerns about mandatory travel insurance. In response, tour operators urged the government to ensure that boat owners have sufficient insurance policies, covering both their equipment and their passengers – similar to the setup of land-based travel firms.
“There is no single solution, a fix it for all occasions and all tourists,” the agencies said. “We have to whittle down the risks sector-by-sector.”

Finally, the companies recommended that all of Thailand’s tourism advertising campaigns overseas contain reminders for travellers to take out insurance before they leave their countries of origin.

----------


## Headworx

> When I had my stroke I sat in a wheel chair for 6 hours in ER waiting for the HR dept at my work to get funds clearance from the insurance company before they would touch me.


Fark that!. I don't know much about Strokes but was avoidable damage being done to your internals while you were waiting?. 

The insurance I have sent me a 2nd card that they advised should be carried 24/7, I can only assume it's to cut down on time it takes for Hospitals to find out if the patient is insured and to what level before they begin treatment, as in Fondles case above. Incidentally, my policy covers one million dollars in-patient but as it has no out-patient coverage (that I can cover with a Platinum CC and maintaining a 7 figure Baht account). But it still wouldn't be enough to extend my retirement visa according to what's being bantered about.

----------


## Fondles

> Fark that!. I don't know much about Strokes but was avoidable damage being done to your internals while you were waiting?. 
> 
> The insurance I have sent me a 2nd card that they advised should be carried 24/7, I can only assume it's to cut down on time it takes for Hospitals to find out if the patient is insured and to what level before they begin treatment, as in Fondles case above. Incidentally, my policy covers one million dollars in-patient but as it has no out-patient coverage (that I can cover with a Platinum CC and maintaining a 7 figure Baht account). But it still wouldn't be enough to extend my retirement visa according to what's being bantered about.


I had the coverage for both in and out patient but as the insurer was not on the pre-approved list they would not do shit until the insurance company confirmed funding approval.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Hey Prag, aren't you in the Mooban Burn party lottery deal in your area? I am in it with my FIL and wife. Few baht every once in awhile then when I croak they rent those portable covers, the red chairs and block off the street.


  Dunno. My wife pays into a couple of village insurance schemes. She'll just get money and do the rest herself. Which is the standard thing around here.

----------


## Stumpy

> Dunno. My wife pays into a couple of village insurance schemes. She'll just get money and do the rest herself. Which is the standard thing around here.


Yep that them. Little old lady rolls up on her scooter, beeps and yells out how much, One of us goes and pays, she kicks us a receipt and wife has it all in some spreadsheet so she knows. My FIL is in 2 or 3 and has been for years. I think he will get the luxury burn job. I think I am in the ghetto package and might be burned in the yard in a hole... :rofl: . No poblem for me. I will be dead !!!

----------


## nidhogg

> *2018*
> Number of foreign visitors: 38 million
> Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million
> Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 80,950
> Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000
> Outstanding debt: Bt305 million


I really find it difficult to believe any of that.  They are saying that on average 1 in ten visitors to Thailand has a hospital trip?  

More to the point, unless I am completely out of it today (possible) the average outstanding debt per bill is 441 baht.  

Foolish nonsense.

----------


## bowie

> I really find it difficult to believe any of that. Foolish nonsense.


Come on - this comes from a most reliable source (_Source:Department of Health Service Support)_ One of the Thai Ministries - so, in the hallowed halls of Thai bureaucracy I'm sure the information is accepted as unquestionable factual data.

Of course - you always have to consider the source before you decide what to do with the information - hmm... wonder just who commissioned the "study" that resulted in the data. 

So, without knowing, nor really caring, I would assume that insurance company lobbyists are pushing the right buttons and identifying what may very well in fact be a small and minor problem. However, cherry-picking and manipulating statistics is part of a lobbyists game, and, they are good at it. So, adding up all those many millions of dollars of unpaid bills - well, does present a hot button issue...

The "push" behind this has started. I expect it will continue. Gotta see how it all plays out - seems in the latest go around the "Travel Agents" Lobbyists out-maneuvered the "Insurance Company" Lobbyists. But, you know the old saying, they may have won the battle but the war still goes on. Expect it to be an ongoing issue for a while.

----------


## cyrille

> proposal to make travel insurance and GPS tracking devices mandatory.


 :smiley laughing: 

When these guys get to 'blue sky thinking' the sky really is the limit.

Every proposal on this thread should be viewed in this light.

----------


## Stumpy

Maybe this is 1 of the 600,000 unpaid bills,

Foreigner jumps to death in Pattaya department store

----------


## bowie

> When these guys get to 'blue sky thinking' the sky really is the limit.
> 
> Every proposal on this thread should be viewed in this light.


Yup, the GPS tracking devices sounds beyond ridiculous but I think that morphed out of the great SIM card registration debacle. They presented it along the same lines of paying for your airport departure fee from a machine - the good old days when you had to have a crisp 500 baht bill to leave on your flight.

The same debates - the latest being finger print and facial scanners. Always something going on to keep 'em busy.

----------


## bowie

> Maybe this is 1 of the 600,000 unpaid bills,


Well, they did take him to the hospital for an autopsy. hmm... wonder what the going rate is?

----------


## Stumpy

> Well, they did take him to the hospital for an autopsy. hmm... wonder what the going rate is?


Plus labor, gas, cleanup.  I mean it all adds up..

----------


## taxexile

> 300+ million baht of debt


considering that a high end car can cost 20 mill. and a house can cost 40 mill. in the greater scheme of things a total hospital debt of 300 mill. p.a. is absolutely bupkis. 

and when spread between all the hospitals that are supposedly providing these figures its just about negligible and will be written off against the obscene profits these institutions make.

 its £7 mill. thats all.

as a proportion of a national budget its microscopic. an irrelevance. to be written off with nary a blink.  i cant see why the thai are making such a fuss about this piffling amount. 

it can only be the loss of face they imagine they suffer in their pathological insecurity should the falang, the arrogant opinionated clever and  richer falang, who criticise  their ways on facebook,  proudly walk half naked in front of buddha images with their big tits and tattoos and man-buns,  have the audacity to screw them out of a few satang.

it cannot be allowed to happen. it would be a national shame. the thai have fought wars over less. 

it must be the thai that screws the falang. just as it has always been. it just cant be the other way round. the thai are on home territory here, and must win. their nation, their rules, their culture.  

the desperate need of the uniformed and bemedalled for unquestioning respect, obeisance and subservience must be satisfied and their grasping ways cannot be and must not be challenged. the greed must be fed.

----------


## nidhogg

What was the projected spending of the Chinese over a week for last Chinese New year - 10 billion baht?


https://www.traveldailymedia.com/cny...d-314-million/

----------


## bowie

> Thats happening now innit.


Nah, not really, still cheap as chips living here. You, or anyone, is/are provided with a better standard-of-living, and in most cases a much better standard-of- living, on the funds you have here, versus any of the western powers. Just have to do your homework and watch your money. 

Speaking for myself - I can spend without paying any attention at all to what I'm spending my money on - I'm maintaining a far better and more luxurious lifestyle here, then on the Northeast Coast of the USA. If I had stayed there, one, I'd still be working, and, two, I'd be clipping coupons and counting pennies. 

So, I can sit and watch the soap opera the Thai Government provides us with skepticism concerning the ironic shoot themselves in the foot approach at the  governmental management of thailand and its affairs. I can leave here on a moments notice, I have that freedom - ain't many Thai folk that can say the same.

----------


## buriramboy

Thailand really needs to be enjoyed when young, glad the 10 years I lived there was aged 25-35. It's really not a place for oldies unless as Terry says you're cashed up with decent medical insurance as medical bills won't bankrupt you in Europe, Thailand another matter.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Terry says


 Terry talks shit. All the Ockers I know state quite clearly that they can't afford to go home.

----------


## NamPikToot

Not true BB. If you choose your family wisely; A doctor, Police Officer (not traffic grunt), some Army officer connection, an Immigration Official and of course the all important Aircon Technician you really are on easy street...Soi Nana is unlikely to yield the said family but who gives a fuk if you are viagra'd with a dodgy ticker and getting your balls sucked dry nightly. Just my two pence worth eh coontas, blow your beans till you blow a valve.

----------


## buriramboy

> Not true BB. If you choose your family wisely; A doctor, Police Officer (not traffic grunt), some Army officer connection, an Immigration Official and of course the all important Aircon Technician you really are on easy street...Soi Nana is unlikely to yield the said family but who gives a fuk if you are viagra'd with a dodgy ticker and getting your balls sucked dry nightly. Just my two pence worth eh coontas, blow your beans till you blow a valve.


I'll just wait and see what the misses wants to do after already 10 years in the UK and realistically still another 5 as daughter only 15, is she fancies Thailand full time again then Thailand it will be, wouldn't be my first choice but I can live anywhere so no great hardship if I have to subject myself to full time living in Thailand again.

----------


## NamPikToot

I wouldn't move full time. Got a few options but can't see me staying in country more than 6 months a year and don't need to. Stay in the UK / France for spring/summer, some travelling elsewhere and some time in Thailand is the plan isssshhhhh.

----------


## Norton

> I'll just wait and see what the misses wants to do after already 10 years in the UK


Good thinking that contributes to domestic tranquility. On the flip side, leaving Thailand needs concurance from the missus as well. When you left Thailand 10 years ago what did the misses think?

----------


## buriramboy

> Good thinking that contributes to domestic tranquility. On the flip side, leaving Thailand needs concurance from the missus as well. When you left Thailand 10 years ago what did the misses think?


My misses is like me always up for adventure and a new challenge, we've been together since 2000 so were 9 years together in Thailand before moving to UK, she likes it here, decent job, plenty of friends and no worries. We've had a fair few holidays to Southern Europe and she likes it there and I'd prefer that to Thailand and think almost got her convinced but she can decide next move, maybe even go for the 6 month a year Thailand and 6 somewhere else, anyway still 5 years away and a lot can happen in that time.

----------


## reispr01

JPPR2, you've offered one of the few responses I can see here with truly valuable advice.  

Meanwhile, having a bit of protection in case you get clipped by a scooter isn't a bad idea.  

You do NOT have to deal with those international crooks like BUPA, ALLIANZ, etc.  You can get a decent, minimal package HERE for as little as a couple hundred buck A YEAR. 

*https://www.thaihealth.co.th/2012/product_simply_eng.php*

----------


## Stumpy

> My misses is like me always up for adventure and a new challenge


Same with my wife. If she wanted to move and the location seemed like one I could enjoy, I am game. For now Thailand works.

----------


## headhunter

> So you've not considered donating your body to medical research then? Advantage is that they pay for the cremation once they finish with you. No expenses for the missus.


she has already a contract with an indian co.
1. a second hand MECHANICAL AOTA HEART VALVE.IN GOOD CONDITION.
2.a DOUBLE BY-PASS with vains taken from good legs.
3.no BRAIN ABNORMALITIES after 3scans.
4.no BAD TEETH.
5.a GOOD CROP OF HAIR.
6.a GOOD SHITTER.
7.HALF A BRAIN.
8.12 STAINLESS STEEL CLAMPS IN MY CHEST.
now for the not so good.
1.a 2INCH DICK that sleeps all day and night.
2.2HANDS ONLY GOOD FOR WASHING DISHES.
3.FEET FHKED.
4.LEGS FHKED.
5.a BADLY SCARED BODY.
6.a BAD HIATUS HERNIA.
7. 2BAD EYES.
8.and worst of all,NO MONEY.
all offers send to MRS.HH.care of TEAK DOOR.

----------


## tomcat

> a 2 INCH DICK


...an appetizer for hungry ducks...



> a BAD HIATUS HERNIA


...so, you're still waiting for it to happen then...



> BADLY SCARED BODY


...trembling only reduces dick size...

----------


## Klondyke

> Thailand. It's really not a place for oldies


You are completely wrong. More and more old people have been moving (for ever) to Thailand because of the easier and more affordable living.  The whole colonies of hostels for oldies throughout the whole country.

As of the medical coverage, in the home country is also not so cheap. When properly (and early) organized here, it's quite well functioning.

----------


## Phuketrichard

> What happened?
> 
> As usual, dodgy farangs abusing the system. 
> 
> 2 of my mates got it at the time, one got the extension based on being supported by a 14 year old, the other based on being supported by a 3 year old.*
> 
> 
> Little wonder it was foked off after a year, and back to 400k in the bank or documented 40k p/m income based on wife or child.
> 
> * I didn't have a child at the time, but was willing to steal one.





> As of Oct 1st 2006 this option is no longer available.
> 
> It  has been replaced as such by rule 7.17/5   This rule stipulates that a  person over 50yrs of age can apply for an extension based on a Thai  child supporting their parent, with no financial requirement as in other  extension types.




wow<  can my half thai / half American daughter living in America support me living in Thailand as i am over 50?

I thought it was the other way around as i got a extension for 2years back in the mid 2000, for supporting my thai daughter an had to show 400,000 in the bank

----------


## Bogon

> it cannot be allowed to happen. it would be a national shame. the thai have fought wars over less.
> 
> it must be the thai that screws the falang. just as it has always been. it just cant be the other way round. the thai are on home territory here, and must win. their nation, their rules, their culture.
> 
> the desperate need of the uniformed and bemedalled for unquestioning respect, obeisance and subservience must be satisfied and their grasping ways cannot be and must not be challenged. the greed must be fed.


I just read this in the voice of Winston Churchill.

I implore you guys to do the same. It is very rousing!  :Smile:

----------


## Pragmatic

> wow< can my half thai / half American daughter living in America support me living in Thailand as i am over 50?


 She probably could have at the time it was brought in but to get it she had to accompany you to the IO office and have a registered address here in Ting Tong land.

----------


## Stumpy

> Thailand really needs to be enjoyed when young, glad the 10 years I lived there was aged 25-35. It's really not a place for oldies


I guess it really depends on what ones intentions are/were.... Right? I doubt I would have wanted to be here when I was 25- 35. Jobs were limited and no career path and salaries are low. Now if it was all about women, then different story. For me I had no issues meeting women in the states from 20-30 and I doubt I would have had the patience to deal with culture differences at that age. Way too much work.




> You are completely wrong. More and more old people have been moving (for ever) to Thailand because of the easier and more affordable living. The whole colonies of hostels for oldies throughout the whole country.
> 
> As of the medical coverage, in the home country is also not so cheap. When properly (and early) organized here, it's quite well functioning.


^ I agree. Now older and having done my career path and saved some good coin, moving here older was perfect timing. I had grown tired of the states for a host of reasons. Life here is waaaaay easier and far more affordable and quite frankly this insurance mandate is just noise. There will be suitable options for most. Sure some will be displaced but no change comes without angst for some. Guess its life.

----------


## Fondles

> The thing is, if residence in the LoS is contingent on life insurance.



The cunts demanding life insurance as well now ?




> At present the Thai insurance markets will only indemnify  over 60s meeting the cover threshold dictated by the government at a  minimum annual premium of around 50,000 baht. This provides for a level  of care that, considering the cost of the premium, is fucking useless.  The policy as offered is dependent on two provisos - you are free of any  pre-existing illnesses or conditions and you are married to a Thai  national, as cited by the Kasikorn Bank. Thus, if you have  heart/liver/kidney/ Type 2 insulin dependent diabetic problems or you  are over 70, you are pretty much uninsurable.


If one does not like the Thai policies on offer there is fook all stopping them from shopping at home for something better.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Err, there is no western oriented medical insurance provider that will offer a 60+ annual policy for under 150,000 - 250,000 baht and that will of course depend on medical history, exclusions and excesses. If one is already privately insured before 60 then they let you carry on but with obvious increases but once you hit 70 you is fucked.

----------


## Klondyke

> Err, there is no western oriented medical insurance provider that will offer a 60+ annual policy for under 150,000 - 250,000 baht and that will of course depend on medical history, exclusions and excesses.


Unlike a Thai life/medical insurance...

----------


## bowie

Yup  wanna live in Thailand  you have to abide by their rules, as Terry says you need to be cashed up.

Well, that statement rings true anywhere. If ya aint got cash you stay home and live off the government dole. You cant afford to meet other countries regulatory requirements without adequate cash. And, other countries aint gonna let you live off their taxpayers, Well, at least thats the way it should be. Of course, the current refugee crisis seems to fly in the face of that statement. 

But, as far as immigration, Ive run the gamut of Thai and the USA. They are both pretty much a royal PITA. Different flavors but both have a slew of hoops and roadblocks. 

As far as mandatory insurance  Thailand is somewhere in the process of implementing mandatory insurance. For comparison purposes, the good old USA recently implemented mandatory insurance  it is called the Affordable Care Act  now this is the affordable part of it. A few years ago, myself 60 yo male and my wife 55 yo female, no pre-existing conditions, cheapest plan USD $1k/month premiums with a $15k deductible. So, in effect, if either of us got sick we had to pay USD $27k out-of-pocket before the insurance company picked up the bill(s). 

Comparison, we are now paying $5k premiums with a $5k deductible for an in-patient only Cigna Expat plan for both (so $10k out-of-pocket). Thailand, if I go the O-X route, and, soon to include the O-A route I have to pay @ THB 120k ($4k). Of course  considerable differences on coverage levels so Im not providing an apples-to-apples comparison, But

Regardless of whatever Thailand requires, I will comply, not by choice, but by necessity. As an Expat you gotta stay legit.

----------


## Pragmatic

> As an Expat you gotta stay legit.


I often wonder why I'm legit. Doing things legal is a pain in the arse whereby illegals say that paying under the table is so straight forward.

----------


## Fondles

> Err, there is no western oriented medical insurance provider that will offer a 60+ annual policy for under 150,000 - 250,000 baht and that will of course depend on medical history, exclusions and excesses. If one is already privately insured before 60 then they let you carry on but with obvious increases but once you hit 70 you is fucked.


Well thats no good now is it.

Best the old cunts stay at home in their bedsit and cry into their porridge then.

----------


## bowie

> I often wonder why I'm legit.


Well, I stay legit because if the proverbial "shit-hit-the-fan" the consequences and the ramifications would serious affect my loved ones. I will not risk the disruption in their lives.

----------


## NamPikToot

[QUOTE=Fondles;3946740]The cunts demanding life insurance as well now ?

Beat me to it, the irony of Buttchugger berating Tez and fukin up in the first para of his sterling advice made me spit me tea out.. :Smile:

----------


## Stumpy

@ Bowie. My brother was hammered with the Affordable Healthcare act. He was self employed with 2 kids. He was paying almost $2.2k a month with ridiculous deductibles. 




> cheapest plan USD $1k/month premiums with a $15k deductible





> Comparison, we are now paying $5k premiums with a $5k deductible for an in-patient only Cigna Expat plan


I am assume when you say $5K premiums you mean annual as the above for comparisons was $1k a month.

Regardless its still cheaper here using private hospitals. As I posted earlier, for the ones that pay as they go, they are best served getting the cheapest basic plan with any exceptions/exclusions they can because they will not use it. They will pay cash as events surface. I know that would/will be my approach. My wife is funny as she told me a long time ago she will use Govt hospital services because as a Thai she knows how to navigate it to get the care she needs (she was a Nurse manager in BKK for 15 years). I said whatever works. 

I personally think that far too many get all spun up into a panic over medical coverage. This leads to stress and as we all know stress is what kills most and makes them sick. In the U.S. Medical, pharmaceutical and insurance companies want you to live in fear. Its that fear that sells it. They sell the "What If's", toss out these huge costs and people line up to buy whatever is being sold to mitigate their fears. Most insurance companies find endless ways to make it complicated and not pay for it all anyway. They say they will but wait until you try and use it.

Anyway, that said I am not really bothered they are now mandating medical insurance coverage. We would be buying it in our home country. The reality is the medical community is big business and need to make money to offer clients services. What I do not like are the insurance companies that fuk with people. I told my wife that if things get really ugly later on in life, we can always move back to the states and by then I will be eligible for Medicare, food stamps and section 8 housing... :Smile: . 

One plus of getting older is you do less and need less.  All ya require is a little apartment, big TV, couch and chair and a comfy toilet, at least that's what my Dad keeps telling me... :rofl:

----------


## NamPikToot

> One plus of getting older is you do less and need less.  All ya require is a little apartment, big TV, couch and chair and a comfy toilet, at least that's what my Dad keeps telling me...


You are missing the lady to cook, clean and iron for you, oh and just to keep her trim, throw out the TV remote so she gets exercise getting up to change channels  :Smile:

----------


## bowie

> I am assume when you say $5K premiums you mean annual as the above for comparisons was $1k a month.


JPPR2 - right on all counts.

As I've always said - whatever the Thai government requires I will provide - or, repatriate, a costly but doable option. Ex-military, I can live anywhere - less a combat zone. So, up to my wife.

Although - as far as the "father knows best" well, I don't know, guess I'm a bit more spoiled than your Dad. But, there is truth in his "minimums".

On the subject of insurance - other than the regulatory requirements - "insurance" is a matter of personal choice. One size does not fit all. Really hard to pre-analyze and determine a suitable medical plan. I'm 62, have an empty bucket list, and really, no goals. So, I'd like to believe that if the Big C, a heart attack, stroke, or a crippling accident came along I'd be willing to check out - I'd like to believe that, but, unless I had to "actually" face that situation, I do not know what I'd decide to do. So, "at-this-point-in-time" I'll maintain a USD $1M plan with a $5k deductible. Don't have a clue what I'll do as I age and the premiums increase - of course, soon I'll have US Medicare, and, perhaps, at that point in time, a reasonable Medicare Part B plan with an overseas Expat plan containing emergency repatriation may fit the bill. We'll see.
\

----------


## taxexile

it seems only brits and americans will be affected by this.

most europeans seem to be covered whilst abroad, even for those who live abroad, by the national health insurance schemes of their home countries. 

some  pay a small supplement for foreign coverage, but the coverage is excellent and neither age nor pre-existing conditions seem to matter.

they visit dentists, physiotherapists and hospitals and send the bill to their governments who unquestioningly seem to stump up.

----------


## Stumpy

> So, I'd like to believe that if the Big C, a heart attack, stroke, or a crippling accident came along I'd be willing to check out


I have it in my living will. I made it clear that I am not to be sustained. I know as humans we have a built in survival mode and when our mortality is at risk, we will do anything to stay alive even though the long term outcome is we all die anyway. To me its all about the quality of life. That's what I will base my decision on.  Like you, I really don't have anything specific I want to do other than have fun and laugh as much as I can and watch the life clock tick on.




> "father knows best" well, I don't know, guess I'm a bit more spoiled than your Dad. But, there is truth in his "minimums".


 Of course he always jokes about it in his simplistic POV. Now in his 80's my parents have lived quite well but I have seen them pare it back a lot now and that started in their 70's. He makes a lot of good sense. 





> You are missing the lady to cook, clean and iron for you, oh and just to keep her trim, throw out the TV remote so she gets exercise getting up to change channels


My wife is 10+ years younger than me. It was a given she would be there with me. But I suspect that she will throw the remote at me or make me get up to go get it (She does that now), She will always cook, not for me but you know, Thais LIVE for food and she can't stop that. I doubt my wardrobe 10 years from now in my 60's will require ironing. In fact that's one of those things you toss out along with that big ironing board.... :Smile: . Everything is wash and wear.

----------


## NamPikToot

> I doubt my wardrobe 10 years from now in my 60's will require ironing. In fact that's one of those things you toss out along with that big ironing board..... Everything is wash and wear.


Standards JPPR, standards, you simply can't go around looking like The Gent in his linens.

----------


## Jack meoff

> Everything is wash and wear.


Scruffy bastard :Smile:

----------


## terry57

Myself has Private health insurance in Ozstralia and buy travel Insurance for me trips to shitsville. 

First sign of any serious medical issue and im straight on the plane back to Perth and into Hospital to get me cancerous arsehole sorted.

If i survive the treatment ill jump back on the plane and cum back to retardestan simply because i love my time amoungst the fookin insane retards that live in the shitter.

Its great fookin fun i recon even though the place is quite fuked up. 

All good innit fukers.  :Smile:

----------


## Norton

> throat cancer


That's what ended DD. A tough one to cure.

----------


## Norton

> I recon in Seppoland they would let ya die if ya had fook all as well so no difference really.


Depends on age. In my case, 100% covered via Medicare and Medicaid. Government coverage for retired folks.

----------


## Jack meoff

^^ Good to know they will be able to wheel you to the Pullman for New Year bevvies :Smile:

----------


## NamPikToot

> So you buy travel insurance but at the first sign of problems you fcuk off back to Oz.
> 
>  Aren't you the stupid cnut for buying 'travel insurance' if you don't use it?


Prag, its like most stuff, belt and braces. If you need it to get stabilised to sort you out prior to a flight out then less than 30 squid is a bargain

----------


## Pragmatic

> If you need it to get stabilised to sort you out prior to a flight


 But Terry indicated that he doesn't use it and just goes straight back to Oz at the first sign of trouble. I'd assume his policy costs more than a straight back to Oz flight, so why travel insurance?

----------


## terry57

Na ya silly fuker, im talkin life threatening shit like fukin cancer not an in grown toe nail.  :Smile: 

And ya assumption is fuked innit. 

My Private cover in Aussie and travel insurance have fook all to do with each other eh. 

Travel Insurance will save my arse if i get fooked up in lieland and my Private cover in Aussie ensures i go strait in to get me shitter sorted. 

All other stuff i pay cash for at Private Hospital in Lieland and me Travel insurance piks up the tab once i submit the claim.

Thats how Insurance works innit.

Anyway, you can take ya chances with no health cover eh, dont worry me Bra.  :spam2:

----------


## crackerjack101

> But Terry indicated that he doesn't use it and just goes straight back to Oz at the first sign of trouble. I'd assume his policy costs more than a straight back to Oz flight, so why travel insurance?


A small point to consider of course is actually getting flown back to the motherland. If the travel insurance includes unlimited repatriation, fair enough, but if questions are raised it could be irritating.

----------


## Klondyke

> Originally Posted by *Seekingasylum*  (Health Insurance Now Required for Long Stay Expats) Err, there is no western oriented medical insurance provider that will offer a 60+ annual policy for under 150,000 - 250,000 baht and that will of course depend on medical history, exclusions and excesses.





> Unlike a Thai life/medical insurance...


What I was meaning by this: There is a possibility for falangs under 70 to get here a Thai life insurance (Pakan Chivid) combined with medical care, I am having that at AIA, had made use of it many times in a private hospital.

They have various programs, combined with investment, also withdrawable. (It was already once discussed here).

----------


## terry57

Health Insurance is like having a second arsehole.

Its totally useless until the time comes ya really need it. 

We all hate spending the money on it but when ya actually need it ya praise the fukin lord ya have it. 

True dat innit.

----------


## Pragmatic

> Thats how Insurance works innit.


 Dunno Bra. I don't have insurance and have no intention of ever having any. Thai government permitting.

----------


## headhunter

there is another story from the other planet,i think its over 2yrs.since,a well know expat with a decent business and a decent wallet full,living in patts,that was till a few leeches sucked most of his satang,but he still had around 2mill.left.then he had what i had to have done to survive.i told him the cost [mine done uk] at around 1.5million he thought thats ok.till he got the add ons which left him with fk.all.a very nice bloke who never asked anybody for anything.luckily he had a good family back in the uk.that took care of him.the only thing that left him with a big hole in his heart[no not the OP] but he had to leave his beloved dogs behind.he still keeps in touch with al theml that knows him in los.a rearly nice bloke.
so all you guys that don't have ins.or because of age[me 74] sit down and think about what could happen if you don't have enough cover and maybe,i do say MAYBE those that have a wife who thinks CANT WAIT till I get my hands on his ackers.KEEP IT SAFE and don't let on to ANYONE.

----------


## Stumpy

I never really understood Life insurance. I guess if a guy is in debt up to his eyes and has young kids its a descent idea. Hate to croak and leave wife and kids in ruins. However if you manage your financial life well, Life insurance is nothing but a lonnnnnnng term scam. 

IMHO med coverage is a good idea. 

I just looked at my work Med card from AIA. Its pretty basic. My wife is covered the same

In Patient  2k baht a day

Out Patient  1.5K baht a day

Er/accident 6k baht a day

There are limits but would have to dig in and look. But again anything above and beyond the US company will pay the difference.

----------


## headhunter

my outlook on whats left of my life,I WILL NOT LET ANYONE SCAM ME of my wifes MONEY, yes its all her's,but even now after working her socks off in the uk.and giving me a life that most people dream of,she still works as a volunteer secretary for the health care of the whole ban-mai district.i keep asking her to pack it in,but she say's if I needed to go into hospital AGAIN I get a private room at half price.those who nows the song FANLIGHT FANNY well she is like her.

----------


## VocalNeal

I'm curious how this is going to help? Given that mostly one has to pay first and then claim on insurance. So if the individual can't afford to pay the bill, having insurance won't help.

----------


## Pragmatic

> So if the individual can't afford to pay the bill, having insurance won't help.


 That's where a Credit Card comes in handy. But in saying that I'm unsure if a government hospital accepts them. I always use government and only ever paid cash.

----------


## Stumpy

> That's where a Credit Card comes in handy. But in saying that I'm unsure if a government hospital accepts them. I always use government and only ever paid cash.


Yes they typically do. I know my wife pays for my FIL on the card. She loves rackin up bonus points albeit he doesn't have high doc bills. 600 to 1200 baht.

----------


## headhunter

yes VN.that is something to THINK ABOUT,going back to 1984 i had a realy bad evening in bkk.i went down stairs to reception in the hotel and told them get me a taxi to a hospital.i had never ever been to one before,so you can guess where the taxi took me.a private one off suk.road.
i remember the docter asking me how much money do you have,not much but i have ins.but i need to see money first,taxi took me back to the hotel,manager went to the room opened the safe and took out a bag.that put a smile on the hospital doctors face when i went back.15k.a bed bath,nice nurse,2nights with rice porridge and a bag of pills.[HEAT STROKE]
so as you say VN.ITS MONEY OR YOUR LIFE.

----------


## Pragmatic

> ITS MONEY OR YOUR LIFE.


 That would never happen at a government hospital.

----------


## bowie

> I never really understood Life insurance.


Life insurance is to replace your salary in the event of your untimely death. Financial planning: husband is the breadwinner, wife is raising the kids. If the husband dies in an accident - what are the wife and kids going to live on? 

With the correct financial planning the husbands salary will be replaced by the life insurance benefit. A slew of different life insurance plans with investment options and many are quite attractive tools, providing both investment assets and long term security.

On a personal note, I purchased a whole life plan at 24 1/2 years old, a universal plan at 29 1/2 years old and a term life plan when I purchased my house.

Canceled my term life plan when we sold the house, kept the wifes term life plan as its the only life insurance plan she had. The whole life and universal have turned into quite nice investment vehicles in that they both guarantee a minimum 4% return - better than savings accounts these days. They, just like a Roth 401k or Roth IRA continue to grow in size. The premiums are paid with after tax dollars and the payouts, either surrender value or death benefit - are not taxable. 

Just another piece of a well thought out financial plan.

----------


## Stumpy

> Life insurance is to replace your salary in the event of your untimely death. Financial planning: husband is the breadwinner, wife is raising the kids. If the husband dies in an accident - what are the wife and kids going to live on?


True, but most companies offer life insurance as long as you are employed at 2.5 times your annual earnings (unless you commit suicide). Why double and triple it I guess one would ask (unless you are self employed or have tremendous debt or financial liabilities). I too had a whole term life insurance policy a company I worked for offered as an incentive. I was paying into it for years after I left the company. One day I sat and looked at the coverage and the pay out was really crap overall. I cancelled it and got a nice refund check that I enjoyed while I was alive versus someone else when I was dead.

That said though, proper financial estate planning mitigates any need for some costly life insurance. My daughters will split my IRA balance when I croak. My wife gets the house and all the other monies in the joint bank acct we have here and 1/3 of the balance in my U.S. accts. I currently have no outstanding debt and will keep it that way. My parents who are mid 80's will pass on their estate to my brother and I (If I should outlive them) then my Will will be updated to reflect that and is to be divided 33% between my 2 daughters and my wife here. All of them shall be well taken care of when I pack it in and call it. My daughters both have outstanding careers and work for big companies so my contribution after I bite it will really only be a bonus of sorts.

----------


## Headworx

> The punters who have not had bad shit happen convince themselves that alls cool , no need to worry about Insurance and if they die they die.


In the case of clueless newbie Kev in Thailand, his grand plan was to wait till he turned 60 then get local health insurance. Problem being he's still in his 50's, has throat cancer (hopefully treatable), and it goes without saying that no insurance company will touch him with a 10 foot pole now. He _should_ have been asking questions instead of making vlogs  giving advice on living in Thailand.

----------


## Norton

> ^^ Good to know they will be able to wheel you to the Pullman for New Year bevvies


Will be one hell of a long trip. Can only use benefits in a US hospital.  :Sad:

----------


## buriramboy

> In the case of clueless newbie Kev in Thailand, his grand plan was to wait till he turned 60 then get local health insurance. Problem being he's still in his 50's, has throat cancer (hopefully treatable), and it goes without saying that no insurance company will touch him with a 10 foot pole now. He _should_ have been asking questions instead of making vlogs  giving advice on living in Thailand.


Does throat cancer prevent you from flying back to the UK for free treatment?

----------


## Dragonfly

> Does throat cancer prevent you from flying back to the UK for free treatment?


good point, but I guess those guys have no where to stay there after they burn all their bridges to move to Thailand

----------


## Headworx

> Does throat cancer prevent you from flying back to the UK for free treatment?


I don't know. What I _do_ know is an old friend died from it in Bangkok recently and it's a nasty way to go.

----------


## buriramboy

The point is just if have no cash for treatment and are a Brit surely first thing you would do is get on a plane and get free treatment and care in the UK providing of course you can fly hence the question.

----------


## charleyboy

Two good friends of mine both contracted throat cancer about the same time here in Thailand. It's a long story...anyway, my mate, Jim got his arse back to Blighty, received the treatment and appeared to be OK.
David had his treatment here, I never asked about the cost ( he's cashed up ) several years on and he's still OK although he's still on the fags.
Jim was fine for a couple of years but it sadly returned and he spent his final months in a hospice.

----------


## nidhogg

> The point is just if have no cash for treatment and are a Brit surely first thing you would do is get on a plane and get free treatment and care in the UK providing of course you can fly hence the question.


I think it is not that simple nowadays.  Just being a Brit does not entitle you to free treatment - think there is now a residency requirement on top.  Prepared to be corrected of course, but I do think you need to be "normally resident in UK" or some such.

----------


## taxexile

> providing of course you can fly


and thats the problem.

an accident rendering one immobile, a fall resulting in a compound fracture requiring urgent surgery, a stroke, appendicitis or any of the hundreds of ailments that can leave one racked with pain and needing urgent hospitalisation. 

thailand has hundreds of hospitals, all with empty beds that need filling, and thousands of doctors that need income to meet the payments on their bmws and wives jewellery.  unlike the west where one needs to be on deaths door before they will admit you to hospital, in thailand they cant wait to get you hooked up to a drip and stuff you full of meds. i know someone, a thai, who was advised a stay of 3 or 4 days for observation of a broken fingernail, in case it became infected. 

and airlines are reluctant to take sick or unwell passengers unless they are being repatriated and accompanied by a nurse or medic under the terms of an insurance policy. 

one needs to be on ones toes and/or have a very good wingman to exert some control any kind of medical event here in thailand, because once the hospitals get you, they may be reluctant to let you go.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Essentially, a British citizen resident abroad who takes ill while on a visit to the UK is not eligible for free NHS healthcare because they would fail the 'ordinarily resident' test. However, those over the age of 65 in receipt of a British state pension allowance who had spent at least 10 years resident in the UK were entitled but this concession was withdrawn, after some 40 plus years, by that cvunt Jeremy Hunt in 2015 in order to save a few bob, the amount of which has never been quantified but would not be expected to pay for the wings of a new F35 aircraft.

If a Brit does return from abroad and seeks treatment they can still qualify for free treatment if they declare that they are resuming their UK residence. In practice a Health Authority must provide that care but will probably seek to confirm it by some documentary means which can be submitted over a period of time subsequent to the receipt of treatment - we are looking at a pattern of bank account use, the payment of utilities and evidence of accommodation. Once the HA is satisfied the punter has met the requirement of the NHS rules then they are off the hook and can then return to wherever without fear of getting an invoice. 

Irrespective of what one might think, it has to be said that denying a British citizen who has paid his NI contributions and taxes over 40 years of employment, and who still pays UK  tax on his UK pension incomes, access to NHS treatment is a pretty cvuntish thing to do even for a Tory worm-ridden turd, especially when it has been a concession for over 40 fucking years.

In my evening prayers I often include the exhortation that Jeremy Cvunt is stricken with an aggressive bowel cancer that has him reduced to a diet of baby food as his guts dribble slowly out of his arse and he eventually expires in torment  with a degree of pain and anguish that not even fentanyl can deaden.

----------


## Pragmatic

> I think it is not that simple nowadays. Just being a Brit does not entitle you to free treatment - think there is now a residency requirement on top. Prepared to be corrected of course, but I do think you need to be "normally resident in UK" or some such.


 Free treatment the case of emergency. I think the same for Aussies. I know of 2 that need stents urgently. They just flew back home and went to the nearest hospital and claimed they didn't feel well. Job done.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Emergency care to preserve life and remove the immediate threat to it by medical intervention is covered, but after...... " Ok, we've stitched you up but the bone infection is still there so you will need to keep on these meds and we shall need to see you every week for tests and examination but this is no longer classed as emergency care so..." or " Oh, we found what we established is the beginning of testicular cancer, how would you like to pay for that?" 
With each year the HAs are now compelled by statutory obligations to confirm a person admitted to hospital qualifies for free treatment. Sight of Brit passport and speaking not like a coon is enough but otherwise if the NHS admissions officer suspects foreign residence they will ask for UK utilities invoices, bank statements and council tax records. Many now have a designated full time staff wallah to pursue this and to submit invoices and begin enforcement proceedings through collection agents.

Incidentally Prag, because you served in the armed forces you are exempt from the 2015 curtailment of the OAP/foreign resident concession.

----------


## taxexile

very few nhs hospitals have debt collecting facilities, or even finance departments geared up to bill patients. hospitals close to major international airports such as heathrow or gatwick may very well be wise to darker toned health tourists from xxxxxx or the xxxxxx xxxx flying in to deliver their baby or top their aids meds, but a brit suffering from say angina, kidney stones or an emergency is unlikely to be challenged other than being asked to tick the box confirming their uk residency. 

obviously,  arriving at a & e with a deep suntan, wearing a chang beer wifebeater and flip flops and wheeling a suitcase might raise an eyebrow or two, but most of the desk staff at nhs hospitals are not trained to challenge "clients" and  probably couldnt give a damn anyway.  

but no uk expat  should be without a uk address (at a relatives house) a gp registration and a uk driving licence.

----------


## buriramboy

Ok but how hard are they going to chase you and the reason people would go back to the UK is they are potless anyway and cant get blood out of a stone as they say.

----------


## Seekingasylum

I think if you actually read the subsequent SIs to the 2015 SI you will see the Secretary of State for the Dept. Health makes it plain HAs/Trusts are now compelled to introduce protocols enforcing the requirement that free NHS care is restricted to those qualified to receive it.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Ok but how hard are they going to chase you and the reason people would go back to the UK is they are potless anyway and cant get blood out of a stone as they say.


Go google.

----------


## buriramboy

> Go google.


I dont need to go to Google as I live in the UK and know full well they basically dont chase people or nothing beyond a letter or 2 hence the amount of unpaid bills by Johnny foreigner.

----------


## taxexile

> HAs/Trusts are now compelled to introduce protocols enforcing the requirement that free NHS care is restricted to those qualified to receive it.


and who exactly is going to enforce those protocols?

somebody flies in for treatment, has the treatment and then flies out.

do you think the nhs will send a bill to mr. adebowale thicklips out in nigeria and actually expect the bill to be paid?

either they take payment before treatment or arrest non payers on the spot, and the liberal idiots who dictate public opinion would never condone that.
yooman rights, our duty to give care to the sick, blaa blaa blaa.

----------


## NamPikToot

> I think if you actually read the subsequent SIs to the 2015 SI you will see the Secretary of State for the Dept. Health makes it plain HAs/Trusts are now compelled to introduce protocols enforcing the requirement that free NHS care is restricted to those qualified to receive it.


Quite right, will stop people like you gaining the system

----------


## jabir

> Essentially, a British citizen resident abroad who takes ill while on a visit to the UK is not eligible for free NHS healthcare because they would fail the 'ordinarily resident' test. However, those over the age of 65 in receipt of a British state pension allowance who had spent at least 10 years resident in the UK were entitled but this concession was withdrawn, after some 40 plus years, by that cvunt Jeremy Hunt in 2015 in order to save a few bob, the amount of which has never been quantified but would not be expected to pay for the wings of a new F35 aircraft.
> 
> If a Brit does return from abroad and seeks treatment they can still qualify for free treatment if they declare that they are resuming their UK residence. In practice a Health Authority must provide that care but will probably seek to confirm it by some documentary means which can be submitted over a period of time subsequent to the receipt of treatment - we are looking at a pattern of bank account use, the payment of utilities and evidence of accommodation. Once the HA is satisfied the punter has met the requirement of the NHS rules then they are off the hook and can then return to wherever without fear of getting an invoice. 
> 
> Irrespective of what one might think, it has to be said that denying a British citizen who has paid his NI contributions and taxes over 40 years of employment, and who still pays UK  tax on his UK pension incomes, access to NHS treatment is a pretty cvuntish thing to do even for a Tory worm-ridden turd, especially when it has been a concession for over 40 fucking years.
> 
> In my evening prayers I often include the exhortation that Jeremy Cvunt is stricken with an aggressive bowel cancer that has him reduced to a diet of baby food as his guts dribble slowly out of his arse and he eventually expires in torment  with a degree of pain and anguish that not even fentanyl can deaden.


I don't disagree with any of those deserving karma in trumps, but a longterm expat friend with a troublesome, expensive though not life threatening condition called the tax people from LHR to inform that he's back and intends to resume stay in the UK, then went from the airport to re-register with his former GP, couple or few days later was being treated in hospital first as an outpatient then in. Not sure if living abroad but paying UK taxes made a difference.

----------


## mudcat

For U.S. residents/citizens eligible for Medicare, there is a right of returning persons to enroll or re-enroll in Medicare within two months of their return from overseas residence under what they consider "Special Enrollment Period" (note the caveat at the end, so probably one needs to establish some sort of residence (e.g. with a family member of friend) before checking into the hospital :

Changes in residenceHousehold moves that qualify you for a Special Enrollment Period:

       Moving to the U.S. from a foreign country or United States territory

*Note:* Moving only for medical treatment or staying somewhere for vacation doesn’t qualify you for a Special Enrollment Period.



As for repatriation - this could work in either direction (e.g. my wife would struggle to take care of me here, but would find it easy in Thailand, while medical care at a higher level is more affordable here).  To re-assure her I have printed out EVA's web FAQ about transport of persons needing assistance which is pretty comprehensive and affordable:

*http://www.evaair.com/en-us/managing...al-assistance/*

----------


## bowie

> so far, not one instance of any Immigration office requiring health insurance for extension to stay on O-A visa.



From Post #72

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/thailand-set-to-deny-visas-to-retirees-without-insurance/


Thailand set to deny visas to retirees without insurance

By Teirra Kamolvattanavith 
May. 15, 2019 

Older foreigners living in Thailand will lose their visas without adequate health insurance under new rules still being written and yet to go into effect.

T*he Public Health Ministry and related agencies will meet again May 22 to discuss a proposal to mandate health insurance for all long-stay expats over 50 applying for one-year retirement visas.
*

Norton - as per above - they're meeting again tomorrow to "discuss" the proposal - so it'll be a bit of time before reports of denials (if, in fact, the proposal is implemented) start showing up. Of course, on the expat forums the topic will be discussed again and again and again...

----------


## Stumpy

Then we have this tid bit of information....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new requirements, which were approved by Cabinet in April and announced by the Ministry of Public Health (MoPH), state that people applying or renewing (or rather re-applying for) a Non-Immigrant Visa OA﻿ now need to have health insurance from either a Thai insurance company or from a policy bought overseas.

The requirement for mandatory health insurance appears to only affect those applying for a Non-Immigrant Visa OA.

]According to the announcement on the Ministry of Public Health (MoPH) website, it does not affect anyone who stays in Thailand on an extension of stay based on retirement, which is often incorrectly referred to as a ‘retirement visa’.

Extensions of stay are not visas. Most retirees who stay in Thailand do so on an ‘extension of stay based on retirement’.​
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That said above, sounds like if you are living here on extensions whether it be O-A or an O this will not impact people.

----------


## Seekingasylum

As an aside, I understand that some time ago the Brit embassy wallahs approached the Thai to explore the possibility that long term residents could enrol in the Thai health care system by paying an annual fee. I believe that Brits, Krauts and others living in Turkey on retirement extensions do this and it affords a safety net for basic care in addition to private insurance provisions if required. Needless to say, the Thai rejected this without any consideration.
Looks like I was right though that they are going to fleece grunters 40,000 - 50,000 baht a year for this crap 400k cover.

----------


## Fondles

> Looks like I was right though that they are going to fleece grunters 40,000 - 50,000 baht a year for this crap 400k cover.


How do you figure that ?

----------


## Mendip

A few posts above there was discusion regarding UK authorities chasing medical bills for people not qualifying for free treatment...

A couple of years ago during a Christmas visit to the UK my wife developed a small problem downstairs. Not serious but could have been if not sorted.

It's impossible to get a doctor's appointment in the UK so we went to A & E which was regarded as emergency treatment so free of charge. Unfortunately my wife needed a small procedure the following day at the Bristol Royal Infirmary. Small but needing general anaesthetic so costs were escalating. This was necessary but not classed as emergency for some reason.

Despite the fact I've maintained NI payments the 20 or so years I have lived away from the UK, we were not covered for free treatment (and not just my wife, I was told had it been me needing treatment, hI would not have been covered unless moving back to the UK). 

My Thai wife also has an Aussie passport and would have been covered for free treatment under  a reciprocal agreement if we lived in Australia, but unfortunately not.

The 1300 quid bill was sent after we returned back to Thailand with a lot of paperwork promising non payment would result in UK immigration getting involved and preventing my wife from entering the UK in the future. I would also have faced problems on entering the UK they said. Don't know how well that would have been enforced but not a risk I would take. If you're a one off visitor to the UK then maybe no problem to leave an unpaid bill.

As it happened we were covered under my wife's Thai holiday insurance so were reimbursed anyway.

----------


## bowie

> Don't know how well that would have been enforced but not a risk I would take. If you're a one off visitor to the UK then maybe no problem to leave an unpaid bill.
> 
> As it happened we were covered under my wife's Thai holiday insurance so were reimbursed anyway.


Mendip - glad it worked out for you.

You have to fight with. My experiences are, of course with USA healthcare and immigration. Had serious damage to my back USD $450k. Over the course of 18 months of treatment and operations and two years of wrangling over "invoices". Had "several" that insurance refused to pay as "not covered", "subscribers responsibility", "out-of-network", plus a slew of refusals because some clerk got a couple of charge numbers backasswards. Anyway, I fought 'em, challenged their interpretations, filed several formal "appeals", and, in the end when all was said and done. I won, in that I only paid what I was resposible for. But a ton of hours, work, and arguing. My responsibility was about $2k. 

Had a friend apply for immigration for his wife - application "denied" three times. On his fourth appeal - she was granted conditional status. 

In the USA seems you have to fight 'em - first words out of their mouths are "NO".

----------


## Stumpy

> In the USA seems you have to fight 'em - first words out of their mouths are "NO"


I know 3 colleagues/friends that ended up filing Bankruptcy as the insurance companies ran them in circles for a few years and they gave up as they had numerous collections against them already so their credit was toast.  Interestingly it worked out well for them.  Regardless that's the insurance companies MO, keeping saying NO hoping you will succumb

----------


## bowie

> I know 3 colleagues/friends that ended up filing Bankruptcy as the insurance companies ran them in circles for a few years and they gave up


 
*https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this...ankruptcy.html*
*
This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy*
*
PUBLISHED MON, FEB 11 2019  11:32 AM ESTUPDATED MON, FEB 11 2019  2:20 PM EST*
*
Lorie Konish**@LORIEKONISH*








*KEY POINTS
*
·      Two-thirds of people who file for bankruptcy cite medical issues as a key contributor to their financial downfall.

·      While the high cost of health care has historically been a trigger for bankruptcy filings, the research shows that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act has not improved things.

·      What most people do not realize, according to one researcher, is that their health insurance may not be enough to protect them.

_SIphotography | Getty Images_
Filing for bankruptcy is often considered a worst-case scenario.

And for many Americans who do pursue that last-ditch effort to rescue their finances, it is because of one reason: health-care costs.

A new study from academic researchers found that 66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues —either because of high costs for care or time out of work. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found.

Other reasons include unaffordable mortgages or foreclosure, at 45 percent; followed by spending or living beyond one’s means, 44.4 percent; providing help to friends or relatives, 28.4 percent; student loans, 25.4 percent; or divorce or separation, 24.4 percent.

While the findings are consistent with past studies on bankruptcy, the data also highlight a key new factor: whether the Affordable Care Act has reduced the burden of medical debt for people.

“Despite gains in coverage and access to care from the ACA, our findings suggest that it did not change the proportion of bankruptcies with medical causes,” an article on the study published in the American Journal of Public Health states.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> The 1300 quid bill was sent after we returned back to Thailand with a lot of paperwork promising non payment would result in UK immigration getting involved and preventing my wife from entering the UK in the future. I would also have faced problems on entering the UK they said. Don't know how well that would have been enforced but not a risk I would take. If you're a one off visitor to the UK then maybe no problem to leave an unpaid bill.
> 
> As it happened we were covered under my wife's Thai holiday insurance so were reimbursed anyway.


In the case of your wife, a person subject to immigration control, she might experience difficulty on seeking entry as a visitor on her Oz ppt ( Ozzies are not visa nationals ) if it is recorded on the system that she is a bad debtor - if she applied for a visa as a Thai she would be refused, almost certainly. However, if you were an undischarged bankrupt and owed the Inland Revenue, the NHS and God Almighty a wedge, it wouldn't matter a flying fart since no one, but no one, can prevent a Brit from entering the UK with a valid British passport under any immigration legislation. Under the Immigration Act 1971 a British citizen in possession of a valid British passport is not subject to control and cannot be detained or refused admission - you can be nicked under the Custom & Excise Management Acts for an offence under that legislation but that is the only circumstance. 

Threatening you personally as a Brit is bollocks.

----------


## Stumpy

Its a sad viscous circle.  They offer medical coverage and services that can't be afforded by most so people do whatever it takes to get fixed and run up huge bills. Then when they can't pay them back or off,  file bankruptcy. The hospital loses on the fees for services provided and writes it off, the insurance company never paid the claim and yet both still make millions in profit every year..Go figure.

----------


## taxexile

> As it happened we were covered under my wife's Thai holiday insurance so were reimbursed anyway.


if your wife had travel insurance why didn't you go  to a private hospital for treatment instead of trying to get treated on the nhs?

----------


## nidhogg

> A new study from academic researchers found that 66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues 
> 
> Other reasons include unaffordable mortgages or foreclosure, at 45 percent; 
> followed by spending or living beyond ones means, 44.4 percent; 
> providing help to friends or relatives, 28.4 percent; 
> student loans, 25.4 percent; or 
> divorce or separation, 24.4 percent.


So, we just thrown away that whole "100%" thing?

----------


## Mendip

> if your wife had travel insurance why didn't you go  to a private hospital for treatment instead of trying to get treated on the nhs?


We first went to A & E as an emergency to see how serious it was, and while there, they organised the procedure for the next day. It couldn't have happened faster. The NHS are fantastic for emergencies, and at that  point it looked as though it was all covered by the NHS as an emergency.

The alternative of sorting out pre-authorisation with Thai Bupa (is it called AETNA now?) wasn't really an option. That could have dragged on for ages.

----------


## Norton

> It's just a sensational subject


Seems so.

Terry you mentioned you are headed back to lala land.

Let us know what immigration required from you.

----------


## taxexile

mendip




> We first went to A & E as an emergency to see how serious it was, and while there, they organised the procedure for the next day. It couldn't have happened faster. The NHS are fantastic for emergencies, and at that point it looked as though it was all covered by the NHS as an emergency.
> 
> The alternative of sorting out pre-authorisation with Thai Bupa (is it called AETNA now?) wasn't really an option. That could have dragged on for ages.


thanks for clearing that up, although i am surprised that they followed through and billed you. each time i or my wife have had a hospital visit we are asked if we are normally resident in the uk and they tick the appropriate box, but we have never had to use A&E. 

i assume you told them that you were just visiting the UK.

before your wife had the procedure the following day, did they notify you of the actual cost.

----------


## Mendip

^ Yes I told them initially at A & E we were just visiting. 

They gave us a rough estimate of cost before the procedure and actual cost was slightly less. At that stage all the medical staff were assuming this was an emergency and that it was therefore covered under free treatment. In fact the medical staff tried very hard for us and the medical report wording made it clear they considered it an emeegency and was very necessary treatment. Even the hospital financial people were on our side and tried to use my wife's Aussie citizenship as cause for free treatment, but our Thai rssidency upset that tactic. I couldn't praise the ground staff at the NHS enough from our experience.

It had to be done, and even if we had no insurance we would have had no choice but go ahead. But 1300 quid was never going to be a problem, but supposing the cost was estimated at tens of thousands and not affordable? I guess the lesson is to make sure medical insurance is valid not only when living in Thailand but also for trips back to your home country.

I've got the letter sent by the NHS stating all the conditions necessary to get free treatment and their recovery procedures if not qualifying. Also the list of excepted conditions that will be treated for free even if you don't qualify for free treatment. I could paste it into a post here when I get to a pc if you think it of benefit, or would that get a bit unwealdy? I'm still pretty new to this forum.

----------


## taxexile

i think that information would be of interest to many members following this thread.

----------


## Mendip

OK then, below is a direct copy of the Word attachment sent by the NHS in association with their invoice.


*Further Information*

*Residency Based Healthcare* 

The NHS is a residency-based healthcare system and eligibility for free NHS hospital care is based on the concept of “ordinary residence”. If you are ‘Ordinarily Resident’ in the UK you must not be charged for NHS hospital services.

*‘Ordinarily Resident’*

Ordinarily resident describes someone who is lawfully in the UK; voluntarily; properly settled here for the time being; and in the case of non-EEA nationals subject to immigration control, has Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) in the UK.

A person is not ordinarily resident in the UK simply because they have British nationality.

Any person who is not ordinarily resident in the UK is classed as an overseas visitor.

Overseas visitors have to pay for their NHS hospital treatment although some exemptions apply. This is under the ‘Overseas Visitor Hospital Charging Regulations 2015’.

*Overseas Visitor Hospital Charging Regulations 2015*

These regulations place a legal obligation on our Trust to make reasonable enquiries into the circumstances of those patients who may potentially be classed as overseas visitors, to determine whether they meet one of the categories of exemption or are liable to pay charges. When charges apply, we must make and recover them.

As set out in chapter 2 paragraph 18 of the regulations, it is your responsibility to prove that you are entitled to free NHS hospital treatment.

*Exempt treatments:*

Certain treatments and services are exempt from charge even if you are established as a charge liable patient. This exemption from charge will apply to the diagnosis of the condition, even if the outcome is a negative result. It will also apply to any treatment provided for a suspected specified condition, up to the point that it is negatively diagnosed. It does not apply to any secondary illness that may be present even if treatment is necessary in order to successfully treat the condition. The conditions to which the exemption applies are:





Acute encephalitis

Acute poliomyelitisAnthraxBotulismBrucellosisCholeraDiphtheriaEnteric fever (typhoid and paratyphoid fever)Food poisoningHaemolytic Uraemic Syndrome (HUS)Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)Infectious bloody diarrhoeaInvasive group a streptococcal disease and scarlet feverInvasive meningococcal disease (meningococcal meningitis, meningococcal septicaemia and other forms of invasive disease)Legionnaires’ diseaseLeprosyLeptospirosisMalariaMeaslesMiddle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS)MumpsPandemic influenza (defined as the ‘pandemic phase’), or influenza that might become pandemic (defined as the ‘alert phase’) in the world health organization’s pandemic influenza risk management interim guidancePlagueRabiesRubellaSevere Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS)SmallpoxTetanusTuberculosisTyphusViral haemorrhagic fever (which includes Ebola)Viral hepatitisWhooping coughYellow fever



*Immediately Necessary, Urgent and Maternity treatment*

These treatments will always be provided regardless of your means to pay but most of the treatment will carry a charge.

*If you do not pay:*

Under the Immigration Rules a person with outstanding debts of over £500 for NHS treatment that is not paid within two months of invoicing, may be denied a further immigration application to enter or remain in the UK.

Non-clinical information relating to this debt is provided to the Home Office and may be used by them to apply the Immigration Rules. The information will remain active for this purpose until the debt is settled.

----------


## Mendip

_An email from the NHS..._


Dear Mr Mendip,

Many thanks for your email to the Overseas Visitors Team.

We thank you for your honesty, however based on this information we have to concluded that Mrs Mendip is not an ‘Ordinary Resident’ of the UK and therefore is charge liable for her NHS Hospital Treatment.

We appreciate that you were advised that the treatment was an emergency and required immediate treatment. Accident & Emergency treatment is free for all in the UK but as soon as a patient is admitted as an Inpatient or referred to an Outpatient appointment, that is the point that they become charge liable, as in this case.

I know this is not the news you were hoping for but we have a legal obligation to the Trust to recover funds from patients that are not eligible for free hospital treatment.

We unfortunately cannot send our overseas correspondence via email so we have sent a letter out today advising of the outcome. We will then raise an invoice for the treatment received, our Treasury Management finance team will be able to email this to you.

Any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us.

----------


## terry57

> Seems so.
> 
> Terry you mentioned you are headed back to lala land.
> 
> Let us know what immigration required from you.


Fook all because I'm on my 2nd year of my Retirement Visa and payed for my last  entry Visa.

So my Retirement Visa is dead after this swing and will need renewing.  

So now Kuntos want 800 K THB in Aussie bank 38 K AUD and will want an Insurance policy . 

I recon I'm gunnar tell em to go fuk themselves and  next year  get  a SETV which will give me 3 months then fook orf for 3 months to Perth and Bali then cum back to the Shit hole on another SETV. 

 There's next year fooked innit and by then the silly fuk sticks would have changed shit around again.

I'm totally flexible eh and can work around these shitters no problem what so ever. 

Being flexible and cashed up means that one can live an exceptional life free from any cuntrys change of rules.

Good innit fukos.   :Smile:

----------


## Norton

> Fook all because I'm on my 2nd year of my Retirement Visa and payed for my last entry Visa.


If you do another 1 year extension while you are here, health insurance not reqruired. You have to have 800k baht in Thai bank or show at leaet 65k baht transfered per month into a Thai bank.

----------


## headhunter

> Na, never happen fuko, if it ever does happen though all of Australians with Supa Funds and others through out the world will all be in the same boat.
> 
> People like you who have nothing ain't got a thing to lose though eh.


I wonder if anyone can remember ALLIED STEEL & WIRE Cardiff 2005,the co went bust and not a penny had by the men that worked most of their lives.
PENSION POT ROBBED.

----------


## buriramboy

If you're a Brit unless cashed up its madness if live overseas if dont maintain a UK address and have regular trips back so you can game the system as in to make the authorities believe you are resident so get your yearly pension increases and entitlement to NHS. Obviously people who opt to have their pension paid into a Thai bank account are shooting themselves in the foot from the get go.

----------


## Mendip

^ There's definitely another side to that.

 I've lived overseas for years and been treated as non-resident for tax. The last thing I'd want is to be regarded as resident in the UK as then all my overseas earnings, capital gains, etc would be subject to UK income tax (if the local tax is less than UK tax). Its a strange situation, on one hand people want to be treated as non-resident to avoid UK income tax and on the other as resident to gain any advantages UK residency offers. I guess you have to weigh up what is best for you personally.

----------


## buriramboy

> ^ There's definitely another side to that.
> 
>  I've lived overseas for years and been treated as non-resident for tax. The last thing I'd want is to be regarded as resident in the UK as then all my overseas earnings, capital gains, etc would be subject to UK income tax (if the local tax is less than UK tax). Its a strange situation, on one hand people want to be treated as non-resident to avoid UK income tax and on the other as resident to gain any advantages UK residency offers. I guess you have to weigh up what is best for you personally.


I appreciate everyone's circumstances are different but my post was referring to the lower end as in people without much more than a pot to piss in. Obviously if financially secure you have no real worries but having lived in Thailand for 10 years (1999-2009) you see many farangs who are just surviving and too old to go back to work to make money, these are the dudes who should be taking a yearly trip back to Blighty making still registered at an address and with a GP.

----------


## Buckaroo Banzai

If anyone is still interested in the government insurance requirements for long stay expats,
I just read a reply from an Pacific Cross/Thai Visa Protect agent at an other forum who among other things stated. 

"_ If you are on a marriage VIsa or NON O yearly extension the mandated insurance does NOT apply to you.  I can't say that the government over time will not roll this out to all visas, I suspect they may, as we all may agree its difficult to say what is around the corner legislation wise.﻿_"

I personally did not know that and I am sure others might not also. Not sure if I can post a link to another forum at TD.

----------


## Stumpy

> If you are on a marriage VIsa or NON O yearly extension the mandated insurance does NOT apply to you.


I had confirmed this a week or so back just our of curiosity. Still good info regardless

----------


## Stumpy

> The last thing I'd want is to be regarded as resident in the UK as then all my overseas earnings, capital gains, etc would be subject to UK income tax


I work here and get paid in BHT. While I keep a permanent address in the US and Bank accts etc, I prefer to avoid the taxation issue. But I always make over the US allowable amount anyway and have to file. But I am not subject to State/Local/SDI or SS. Just federal. Usually its a wash after all said and done but I still have to file.

----------


## OhOh

> should be taking a yearly trip back Blighty making [sure they are] still registered at an address and with a GP.


What UK laws state an annual confirmation of ones address and GP registration are required?

 My UK bank and GP, both of which I have been with for years, appear to be happy taking service fees and enrolment fees.

----------


## buriramboy

> What UK laws state an annual confirmation of ones address and GP registration are required?


They don't the point is to game the system in terms of making the authorities believe you are still resident so you get your yearly pension increase as the state pension is frozen if living overseas and also to keep your entitlement for free use of the NHS.

----------


## Seekingasylum

As I understand it the Dept Health committee is to deliberate further and more is to follow. In my experience Thai tend to push out proposed reforms tentatively to gauge the likely reaction and fallout, and I suspect to gain more information to augment their own cognitive powers in order to avoid unintended consequences that might make them look like fools or, worse still, lose them money. 

Apropos Britain specifically, the problem that has arisen is that hundreds, if not thousands, senior expats have retired abroad in the past fifteen years plus who did so on the basis that their health, to a certain degree, was safeguarded by their continuing qualification for free NHS care because of their prior UK residence and receipt of their SPA on reaching 65. This concession  that endured for over 40 years was withdrawn without warning or any notice in Sept/Oct 2015. I suspect many are now having to review their decision to migrate as it becomes increasingly difficult to obtain medical insurance necessary to qualify for their visa extensions.

In truth only the very rich can relax living here aged 65 years or over. Full medical cover providing treatment for cancer/heart conditions is prohibitively expensive and subject to exclusions but for many unobtainable. Certainly, after 70 you are on your own more or less completely. A simple pacemaker operation is around 500,000 but if cancer strikes requiring the full range of therapies including surgery then one is looking at 2 million plus and rising.

In truth, had I known that Jeremy Cvunt intended to withdraw my NHS cover in the way he did then I too may have organised things differently. Certainly, if the Thai do impose this new immigration tax then we shall carry out our plans to relocate back to UK. I'll be damned I shell out 50,000 baht every year  for cover that would scarcely fund treatment for an infected ingrown toenail and a week's stay in Bumrungrad.

----------


## buriramboy

What happened to Portugal? House over the road from me up for sale!!!!!

----------


## taxexile

> they take your fingerprints and match them with the database for previous applications.


if that is the case then how come the uk has so many repeat illegals with criminal records who cant be traced, located or deported and the nhs suffers huge losses thanks to health tourism.

the system may look good on paper, but the buttons working it are being pushed by fucking liberal monkeys who care more about human rights than the wastage of taxpayers money.

and as i said before, all an expat with angina needs to do in order to get his stents fitted foc is to tell the bint at the desk that he has returned to live in the uk on a permanent basis.

----------


## Seekingasylum

Oddly, the wingman is quite enthused at the prospect of returning full time to Blighty and indicates no great relish at remaining longer than the odd month every year or so here in the LoS whereas the more I dwell on the prospect of doing all those Blighty type things again I feel quite wearisome and feel less inclined to leave - council tax, insurances, heating bills, fat ugly people with bad complexions and worse clothes, grey days, drizzle, petrol prices, stupid restaurant prices for gimcrack food, old shabby people. endless suburbia with sodium lighting and dead silences. 
I think I might just stay in Bangkok and re-discover the joys of urban living - getting pissed in the FCCT, days at the swimming club, quiz nights in a Brit bar, having a session in the Tawandang, doing my calisthenics at Lumpini at 1730 hrs wearing my leotard and codpiece, drinking at happy hour in Nana/Soi Cowboy,  mooching aimlessly around shopping malls and accompanying the wingman on airings about the town and meeting friends, talking bollocks and then boogieing at the Check-Inn/ Huntsman to the the Flipper band.

Beats a rainy night in Scunthorpe.

Fuck it, I might stay now.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> if that is the case then how come the uk has so many repeat illegals with criminal records who cant be traced, located or deported and the nhs suffers huge losses thanks to health tourism.


Err, it doesn't.

----------


## buriramboy

Everything is on direct debit so dont have to worry about forgetting to pay any bills. Fat ugly people cant be totally avoided that's a given. Eating out in the UK is quite reasonable these days due to competition in fact looking at the prices people post up for crap they've eaten in Pattaya and Bangkok, restaurants in the UK seem cheaper.

----------


## Pragmatic

> probably split our time between UK and Bangkok.


 Does that mean getting an AO Visa and medical insurance? If so, that defeats the reason why you left doesn't it?

----------


## Seekingasylum

Naah, get a MEV.

----------


## OhOh

> They don't


Thanks. As I checked some years ago.

----------


## taxexile

Mandatory health insurance for over 50s in Thailand only affects those on Non-Immigrant Visa O-A







> TV has today spoken with Prachuap Khiri Khan Immigration in a bid to try and clear up some confusion surrounding the recent announcement regarding mandatory health insurance for Non-Immigrant Visa O-A.
> 
>  Prachuap Khiri Khan Immigration told TV that the new requirements only affect people seeking Non-Immigrant Visa O-A.
> 
> The requirement for mandatory health insurance does not affect those people who stay in Thailand on a Non O extension of stay based on retirement.
> 
> 
> The requirement also does not apply to those staying in Thailand on a marriage extension or an extension of stay based on being a parent to a Thai child.
> 
> ...


http://https://forum.thaivisa.com/to...rant-visa-o-a/

----------


## Norton

> Mandatory health insurance for over 50s in Thailand only affects those on Non-Immigrant Visa O-A


This sort of headline is exactly why folks are cconfused and probably intentionally penned to confuse.

The health insurance requirement does NOT apply to folks ON a non immigrant O-A.
Only applies to folks applying for the visa outside the Kingdom.

A fact established shortly after the announcement was made. 

Case closed, no need for further discussion unless you have a forum advertising insurance for expats on your home page.  :Wink:

----------


## OhOh

> The health insurance requirement does NOT apply to folks[CURRENTLY] ON a [ EXTETENSION, BASED ON A PREVIOUSLY ISSUED] non immigrant O-A.
> Only applies to folks applying for the *[NEW]* visa outside the Kingdom.


Thank you.

----------


## ChadAlphaGod

Well, how much is health insurance in Thailand anyway? Buying into an actual reputable program can't be that much:
https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-ba...insurance.html

I can't read the pamphlets though. Do you have to continue to pay every year in order to be a part of it? Or is it just like 50,000 THB per year for a few years and you're covered for many years in advance? I think their life insurance works like that. My ex wife had it.,

----------


## headhunter

> Well, how much is health insurance in Thailand anyway? Buying into an actual reputable program can't be that much:
> https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-ba...insurance.html
> 
> I can't read the pamphlets though. Do you have to continue to pay every year in order to be a part of it? Or is it just like 50,000 THB per year for a few years and you're covered for many years in advance? I think their life insurance works like that. My ex wife had it.,


50,000bht.for a yrs.ins.wouldnt cover a sore dick.

----------


## Phuketrichard

Health insurance is NOT life insurance
Health/you pay every year till you die and get nothing back

Heres a good list of the providers and costs

https://longstay.tgia.org/

----------


## ChadAlphaGod

Ah... 50,000 per year, year after year. Yeah, that's excessive unless you're one seriously unhealthy mother fucker. I lived in Thailand for 10 years. My total medical expenses during the entire time must've just been a few thousand baht. 50,000 a year would seriously just be wasting cash. Who the Hell actually buys those shit deals?

----------


## jabir

Panic enough people and some will always leap where you want them.

----------


## bowie

> Who the Hell actually buys those shit deals?


uhm... a few O-X Visa holders

----------


## Stumpy

> Panic enough people and some will always leap where you want them.


Indeed. Fear sells. Its a great marketing plan because they know that many people will not spend countless hours reading through pages and pages of "herein", "therefore", "such as", "section 2.2.1, subset 4, paragraph 3" crap so they blindly go buy coverage because its easy.

----------


## cyrille

> I lived in Thailand for 10 years. My total medical expenses during the entire time must've just been a few thousand baht.


So do you think that will be the same towards the end of the lifetime you've decided to live in Thailand?

----------

