#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thai Visas and Visa Runs >  >  End This Visa Run Madness: Phuket Expat Tells of Horrific Trip and Starts Campaign

## Mid

*End This Visa Run Madness: 

Phuket Expat Tells of Horrific Trip and Starts Campaign for Change*
By Reid Ridgway, of Visa Run Safety Forum Phuket    
Tuesday, March 25, 2014

*Phuketwan 'Brave Enough to Change' Campaign*

*PHUKET:* Reid Ridgway is raging mad and not prepared to play Russian  Roulette any more.  Here, the veteran expat describes his Visa Run  nightmare at the weekend and explains why it's time other expats joined  him in saying: 

''Enough. For too long, our lives have been needlessly put at risk by  these maniacs at the wheel. Let's stop this craziness now.'' 

ON SATURDAY, six expat residents of Phuket were forced into a van and  held captive for a terrifying 12-hour ordeal, helplessly peering out the  windows,  racing at speeds exceeding 130kmh, as the driver flew around  one blind curve after another in the oncoming lane. 

The driver of the van ignored all pleas to slow down, laughing at his passengers' fear, and flashing a peace sign at them. 

He tailgated truck and trailer rigs, then lurched into the other lane to  speed around them -  even if they blocked the view of any oncoming  traffic, racing them around the outside of the curves, testing the  limits of gravity. 

He roared to the inside of curves, breaking to the right, counting on blind luck to avoid a spectacular head on collision. 

Each passenger was forced to take the gamble  with him at every turn, hoping his luck held out and their lives were spared. 

Several times his luck didn't hold out, and we were all suddenly  dependent upon the awareness and quick reflexes of other drivers -   stunned by sudden appearance of the rocketing van bearing down on them  in the wrong lane around a blind curve. Three cars blowing by one  another at great speeds. 

Each passenger could only pray that some driver coming the opposite way  wasn't taking similar risks and passing on a blind curve - four cars  would never be able to avoid certain tragedy. 

The van driver blew by cars on narrow bridges, blew past a group of  bicyclists, nearly killing a mother and child on a motorbike,  honking  at them as they attempted to turn right on to the highway. 

One incredible risk after another, the maniac drove onward, somehow narrowing escaping the statistical odds.

The van never slowed until it reached Ranong, where the six expats were  hustled onto a rickety boat, and taken across the border to Burma  (Myanmar) . . . to get their passports stamped,  then herded back into  the same van for the equally terrifying ride home. 

This was not an abduction. The driver, [ name deleted], is not  considered a criminal but a professional driver for a tour company, even  though he daily breaks every traffic law on the books, and makes a  mockery of professional driving.

It's called a visa run, and it is the fate of several hundred expats  every single day. These people are the paying customers of a poorly  regulated offshoot of the tourism industry. 

Nothing is exaggerated in the story above. Every word is true, I was one  of the six terrified people, forced to endure the harrowing ride  because my own vehicle is currently in the body shop, and because my  visa was about to expire. 

When I could take the mounting stress no longer, and after making it  very clear I needed him to slow down on two occasions,  I angrily  shouted at the driver to stop taking chances with our lives as he pulled  yet another stunt so stupid and dangerous that we all nearly lost our  lives, taken away by a foolish jackass. 

INSTEAD OF SLOWING down, he flipped me the bird, and sped up. I didn't back down and continued to yell for him to knock it off. 

His next response? He lurched into the oncoming lane and played ''chicken'' around the inside of the very next bend. 

There was no reason to be in the lane, no other car to pass. It was just  to show me that he wasn't going to be told how to drive. 

I called him an idiot, and threatened to call his company. He held up  his mobile phone to test my resolve then pulled tp the side of the road,  shouting:  ''F*** you, get out now. Get out! You get out now.'' 

I refused. Even though I so badly wanted out, we were were in the middle  of absolutely nowhere, hundreds of kilometers from Phuket, and I didn't  have enough cash  to make my own way back home. 

He drove off. The madness continued. 

Several more times we would narrowly escape collisions as three cars met on a curve and blew past each other. 

Back on Phuket when the terror was over and the driver got out and  switched vans with another driver, two of the other passengers confided  to me that they had every urge to jump out, too. 

They were sorry they had not supported me verbally. They said they were intimidated and afraid to speak their minds. 

I was also afraid to speak up until I had this thought: ''What would I  do if my children were in this car. Would I still say nothing?'' 

It was then I realised that I would never have put up with anyone  risking their young lives in this way and causing them fear and stress.  Not for one second. 

I would have physically wrestled control of the vehicle to protect them if necessary.

Expats are forced into these vans by Thailand's immigration laws.  Although I have three Thai children and a Thai wife,  I am still forced  to go in an out of the country constantly, and I have been for 12 years  now. 

GO AHEAD: Ask me why my own car happens to be in the body shop. I'm glad you asked: 

While returning home from picking up my children from school three short  weeks ago, we were the victim of a head-on collision by the driver of  white tourist transport van used for visa runs. 

The driver blatantly ran straight through a red light that had turned yellow then red, nearly six seconds earlier. 

He got out of his van, waving his arms in anger, and later tried to kick  me in the crotch at the police station because I called him a liar -   as he was telling the police that his light was green. 

When he tried to kick me, I had my one year old baby daughter on my shoulders. 

Luckily a closed circuit camera caught the whole crash on video,  including the state of the traffic lights, and his insurance is paying  to fix my truck. 

My rented car is unfortunately not allowed to leave the island.

I AM AN EXPERT in mass communications and media. I have worked at the  highest levels of the tourism industry, serving briefly as a regional  director of the largest and oldest tourism association in Asia, and as a  consultant to the Lao Government to help them understand the human  resources component of tourism. 

I can tell you this about tourism. It is an industry  extremely dependent upon customer satisfaction. 

Individual tourism businesses normally compete to provide exceptional  service quality: the expert care of needs, desires, safety, and comfort  for their guests. 

The industry polices itself because if people aren't satisfied, they  don't come back. Today, with social media and sites like TripAdvisor,  neither do any of their friends. 

The visa run industry is exempt from this duty of care - only because tourists have no choice but to get into these vans. 

It is not an elective tour activity which competes with other  entertaining things to do. It is a nightmare that people must face if  they want to stay more than a month on Phuket without becoming an  illegal alien. 

There is little to zero regulation or oversight on the  drivers and the  industry has filled up with grown men who drive like 14-year-old  adolescents, showing off to one another. 

There was actually a second van full of people suffering along with us.  Several of them admitted their terror to me at the lunch stop and on the  boat ride to Burma.

THERE IS NOTHING unique about the event I am describing. It is the same across almost every visa run company on Phuket. 

I had a similar experience with a different company seven months earlier, on a trip to Penang in Malaysia. 

Nearly everyone who has been on these visa runs will admit to you that  they they become  terrified by the idiotic driving they are forced to  endure. 

Even the burly Swedish biker sitting next to me was white knuckled and kept shaking his head in disbelief. 

Very few people have the courage to say something because they are, after all, guests here in Thailand. 

More seasoned expats just feel that it's only going to make the situation worse if the driver gets angry and agitated. 

They may have a point. 

Even if you haven't been in one of the vans yourself, nearly every one  of us has a story of being placed in grave danger by one of them:  dangerously passed by one, crowded off the road by one, cut off by one,  or nearly colliding with one around a blind curve.

I'm speaking up and I'm asking everyone to stand together, to confront this problem, and speak up with me. 

Report these drivers to their companies. Video their driving on your smart phone and turn them in. 

I call upon the tourism industry to set some standards for hiring and for monitoring ground transportation drivers. 

I call on the authorities to police this Visa Run industry, and revoke  the driving privileges of those who gamble with peoples' lives. 

Fine them, jail them. Their actions are criminal. 

It is no different to spinning the magazine of a revolver with one live  round in it, aiming at another's face and pulling the trigger and  laughing at their terror, a game of Russian Roulette.  

One of the last passengers to leave the vehicle on Saturday turned to me  before he got out and said: ''I recently had a good friend who died on a  visa run to Penang.''

 Nobody goes on one of these trips with the desire to come home in a body bag. Enough of this nonsense. 

I've had it. You've all had it. You don't have to put up with it. I'm  speaking out, and I'm not going to stop speaking out until I affect  change. 

I'm going to print news and radio. I'm going to the insurance companies. I'm going to tourism industry itself. 

I'm going to circulate petitions in the expat community and I'm going to  present them to the Tourism Authority of Thailand and the Governor of  Phuket. 

Please sign a petition when it comes to you. I have started a Facebook  page for people to report their experiences with these companies. 

And possibly to start a non-profit van pool for people to share the cost  of renting a van and driving themselves to the border - or hiring a  driver who can demonstrate the maturity to drive safely. 

Let's get this industry under control and save some peoples lives. It  might just be your own, or a good friend of yours, after all it's just a  lottery, a random chance. 

But the statistics always bear out eventually, and it is going to be one of us who pays the ultimate price for not speaking up. 

Let's demand these companies list their phone number front and center of  the vehicle, and a second number for the police hotline if they can't  get any help from the boss of the companies. 

Let's demand all ground transport vehicles install a working dashboard cam to record the truth of the situation. 

Let's stick together. It's a powerful thing when people are fed up and stand their ground in unison. 

Who knows? Maybe  some day we can even end the stupidity altogether and  get Thai Immigration to collect all this wasted money for themselves,  and stamp visas right here on Phuket. 

Wouldn't that be amazingly intelligent? 

JOINTHE Facebook group  Visa Run Safety Forum Phuket and sign the online petition at: http://chn.ge/NK1hsJ 

Contact the author directly at: reidridgway@yahoo.com

_Phuketwan accepts that there are some good visa run drivers, just not  enough of them. Dashboard cameras and prominently  displayed telephone  numbers for instant complaints are good ideas. We wholeheartedly endorse  Reid Ridgway's campaign.

_phuketwan.com

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## Necron99

Wahhhhmmmmbulance....


Tourists don't do visa runs.
You're not a tourist.
Despite having expert level jobs in many industries you don;t have 400k to put in the bank?


Wahhhh.

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## billy the kid

> He drove off. The madness continued.


and the madness was to stay with the van also.
there by the grace of chance
did he make it back.

next time maybe not.

he must love where he's staying to put up with that shit.

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## kingwilly

He had the chance to get out and chose not to. He lives in a country on tourist visas by choice. Boohoo.

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## Norton

^^^Yep to all.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> racing at speeds exceeding 130kmh


 :rofl: 

must be a Thai Visa mod.

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## Bettyboo

Stop the van, get out, beat the fuker senseless, leave him in a ditch bleeding and broken, drive the van home, safely. Then, leave the island before you get killed...

I had a very nice mini van experience from Bkk a few days ago; great driver, I was surprised... Very, very rarely would I take that mode of travel, or coaches/long distance buses, but from time to time needs must... I can understand the upset in the article, many of us have been there - drug fuelled tossers trying to kill everyone on the road; really does need to change, but hasn't in the last 25 years (or longer?), so I doubt it will...

Brings back memories though...

It's easy to pick holes in the article and its author, but we all know it is a real problem - these minivans regularly (and I mean weekly if not daily) cause fatal deaths; the driver usually survives and flees the scene! You lot who are mocking the article had better hope it's not your wife and kids that the next minivan smashes head on into around a blind bend...

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## jamescollister

Catch the big bus, it's slower, but safer.
 When I lived in Samui did one mini van run, never again, big purple double decker, slow but sure.
Want a one day turn around, you need speed.

Doing my border run tomorrow, on my motor bike, day out in Lao.

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## kingwilly

> ... You lot who are mocking the article had better hope it's not your wife and kids that the next minivan smashes head on into around a blind bend


Fair call. But if I it wasnt for these cheap charlie visa run tossers we wouldnt have this problem at all.

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## taxexile

the six expats should have hired their own car and driven themselves. probably cheaper too. 

shouldnt be too difficult for expats to organise this. anyone who has been here for more than 10 minutes knows that  putting your or your families safety in the hands of coach drivers and mini bus drivers is not the most sensible thing to do if you value your life.

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## Bettyboo

> ... You lot who are mocking the article had better hope it's not your wife and kids that the next minivan smashes head on into around a blind bend
> 			
> 		
> 
> Fair call. But if I it wasnt for these cheap charlie visa run tossers we wouldnt have this problem at all.


The issue is that he knew the risks, and he had the opportunity to get out and get the bus, which many of us would have done. I suspect that's why people don't like the article, and I had the same sense.

It doesn't mean there isn't a real issue with the drivers though - they do need somewhere between a good kicking and jail time BEFORE they kill people.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> Catch the big bus, it's slower, but safer.


Yes Jim - simple fucking logic innit.

Big bus - government bus drivers - on a salary - proud of their job.

Minivans - tin box on wheels - driven by crackheads - on the clock.

The choice is yours - think wisely.

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## ACT

> Although I have three Thai children and a Thai wife,  I am still forced   to go in an out of the country constantly, and I have been for 12  years  now.


No he isn't. If he has 3 children and a wife and he can't show either 40k p/m income or 400k in the bank to extend his visa for 12 months something is up.

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## taxexile

> Let's stop this craziness now.'


you will never stop the craziness by means of a public campaign, or by requiring drivers to be licensed, tested and vehicles to be checked.

there are already laws in place covering all those things, and there are ways around all those laws too.

if you want the craziness to stop, then just stop using their services and drive yourselves. without customers, the companies will not survive.

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## ACT

One way to deal with such idiots would be to first call the company and request them to call the driver and tell him to drive safely as he has already refused the requests of the passengers, and if he doesn't it is being video'd on the passengers smart phones and the videos of such will be given not only to the police but all manner of media outlets with the name of the company listed.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> It's the driver not the vehicle is dangerous


"that is dangerous" (thought with an MA you'd know that :rofl: )

In 2D obviously, but when you look at the big picture it's very relevant what vehicle you are in.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> If he has 3 children and a wife and he can't show either 40k p/m income or 400k in the bank to extend his visa for 12 months something is up.


Yes - he doesn't have much money.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## cyrille

He does have a point.

The power of it is unfortunately lessened by the fact that he's so self evidently a complete and utter cock.

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## Fluke

Everyone on board the bus should have gotton off when they had the chance and called the tour company from the roadside .
  The driver is hardly going to arrive at his destination with no passengers

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## melvin

> Catch the big bus, it's slower, but safer.
>  When I lived in Samui did one mini van run, never again, big purple double decker, slow but sure.
> Want a one day turn around, you need speed.
> 
> Doing my border run tomorrow, on my motor bike, day out in Lao.


agree, travel slowly

the article is quite off I think
Thai immigration authorities do not prescribe the use of vans

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## pickel

> Everyone on board the bus should have gotton off when they had the chance and called the tour company from the roadside . The driver is hardly going to arrive at his destination with no passengers


The driver would have happily done that. You really do live in a fantasy world Fluke.

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## Fluke

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> Everyone on board the bus should have gotton off when they had the chance and called the tour company from the roadside . The driver is hardly going to arrive at his destination with no passengers
> 
> 
> The driver would have happily done that. You really do live in a fantasy world Fluke.


  I really dont think that he would have , how would the driver explain to his Boss turing up at his destination with no cargo?

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## pickel

> how would the driver explain to his Boss turing up at his destination with no cargo?


He would say "farang mai dee, poot mak, think too mut" and his boss would say okay fair enough.

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## Albert Shagnastier

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> Everyone on board the bus should have gotton off when they had the chance and called the tour company from the roadside . The driver is hardly going to arrive at his destination with no passengers
> 
> 
> The driver would have happily done that. You really do live in a fantasy world Fluke.


I've done hundreds of bus journeys - like most of us have.

I've seen this shit a few times.

To be expected with the way the Thai labour market works, no laws and a .000001% unemployment rate.

If you get one of these fucks - get out at the next traffic lights. Maximum time lost 2-3 hours. Never put your life in the hands of someone who doesn't give a fuck about your life or theirs. Don't sit and argue the fvcking toss. That's just how it is and life is short  :Wink: 

No brainer  :Smile:

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## Phuketrichard

his fb page is just as bad,  says we are "forced to do visa runs in these mini vans"  28 years here, never been in one, would never trust my life to a thai driver of one.

I am going out on a limb here,  
BUT it seems there are more an more people on fb, thai visa.com and other forums that have moved here an want Thailand to change to suit them.

Thailand will never change, despite over 168,000 people dying in traffic accidents, nothing is done, nor will it be . despite drug testing bus drivers in Phuket and over 20%  testing positive, nothing is done. Double decker bus's flipping over,  Jet skis owners beating on people an ripping them off, absurd taxi charges, bill padding, etc etc.

you accept Thai's as they are, if u cant,  leave

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## 9999

> Fair call. But if I it wasnt for these cheap charlie visa run tossers we wouldnt have this problem at all.


Are you serious willy? you are going in to bat for the crazy driver on the basis that the passengers are visa run scum bags?

Regardless of who the passengers are there is no defense for this. They could be a bunch of convicted criminals being ferried off to gaol, the driver is still in the wrong for this, if you want to hate on visa runners you've chosen a poor line to do so.

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## nidhogg

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> how would the driver explain to his Boss turing up at his destination with no cargo?
> 
> 
> He would say "farang mai dee, poot mak, think too mut" and his boss would say okay fair enough.


Got to agree. Especially if (as is almost certain) the farangs paid first, and (less certain) he (the boss) does not rely on repeat business.

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## kingwilly

> Originally Posted by kingwilly
> 
> Fair call. But if I it wasnt for these cheap charlie visa run tossers we wouldnt have this problem at all.
> 
> 
> Are you serious willy? you are going in to bat for the crazy driver on the basis that the passengers are visa run scum bags?
> 
> Regardless of who the passengers are there is no defense for this. They could be a bunch of convicted criminals being ferried off to gaol, the driver is still in the wrong for this, if you want to hate on visa runners you've chosen a poor line to do so.


Suffering comprehension difficulties again? I aint batting for the drivers, I think they're scum bags.

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## 9999

^ C'mon Willy, your statement above is putting the blame on visa runners wanting to do visa runs for the problem or crazy driving. It's a nonsense line.





> But if I it wasnt for these cheap charlie visa run tossers we wouldnt have this problem at all.

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## ACT

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Fluke
> ...


The cargo had already paid, if they wanted to jump ship mid-ocean then up to them. 

The driver would have been happy. Turn back immediately and rush in another driving shift to get extra pay. Everybody wins except the stoopid falangs sitting at the roadside with their principles for company.  :Smile:

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## Bogon

I think that the visa-runner bloke is telling the truth about his experience, but lets himself down when he tries to big himself up about being a communications expert on the Starship Enterprise and then he he goes on to say he didn't have enough cash to get home if he jumped ship midway through the visa run.

He also harps on about he has 3 kids and wife and he still does regular visa runs 12 years on.

The bloke seems a bit of a div in my books.

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## ACT

Sorry, never saw any youtube vids.

Visa extension = 1900 baht per year, go to the office once p/a, the rest done by post. 

Multi-entry visa is 5000b? Then every 3 months a visa for Laos plus travel costs plus time and hassle. Probably 25k p/a plus numerous days going to the same places every few months, just doesn't add up for a 5 tonne per month rubber plantation owner. 

But as long as you're happy and avoiding minivan drivers.  :Smile:

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## 9999

I used to do visa runs every 15 days (driving myself - would not risk those vans took the bus a few times) - I liked it, 8 hour round trip and the Mrs loved to go shopping there. We'd often make an overnight stay in Doi Mae Salong or something. I copped heaps of flack for this but the Thais never seemed to mind. 

Now I have a non-O unlimited entry, I have to leave every 3 months which is fine coz I want to anyway. I'm in a similar situation to Jim. And he lives right on the border. I just don't understand the hate towards people like us who do visa runs within the rules set out by the Thai govt. And I understand less the level of scrutiny by other falangs.

Clearly he is happy with it so why the interrogation?

I think there's a lot of low end TEFLer types who put themselves on a pedestal because they don't need to do visa runs.

In any case, casting a blanket over people who do visa runs as cheap charlie scum and suggesting it's them that are to blame for maniac tour van drivers is so way out of left field. 

So ACT, since you are so concerned about everyone else, why don't you let us know about your visa status?

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## ACT

^ Some issues going on in your head mate!  :Sad: 

I work for a MNC and they've always done my extensions, work permits etc. I just find it bizarre that someone who says that the government aided the set up of their business and company, that has his name above the door and in the books, produces 300,000-400,000 baht of produce per month, can't get a basic visa extension and is doing border runs. Doesn't add up. But hey, as I said, as long as we're all happy and everyone is avoiding minivans.  :Smile:

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## 9999

> Some issues going on in your head mate!


Oh yeah it was KW who was ragging on visa runners being scum ... I'll get my coat.

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## Fluke

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pickel
> ...


  No, the authorities would have gotton involved , driver would have been sacked on the spot and the tour Company would have lost its license .

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## leemo

^OP

Good luck with that. In my experience, trying to get Thais to change the status quo for benefit to you and nothing for them is like showing a dog your favourite card trick.

What we need is for the same to happen except the driver's luck fails and everyone dies, including a few bystanders, preferably Thai. And it must all be clearly validated by video and eye witnesses. Then the local major will tut tut and say something should be done about it.

That's the closest we despised but tolerated second class citizens will get to any respite from these psychopaths.

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## Little Chuchok

> He had the chance to get out and chose not to. He lives in a country on tourist visas by choice. Boohoo.


How do you know it's a tourist visa?

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## Little Chuchok

> Catch the big bus, it's slower, but safer.
>  When I lived in Samui did one mini van run, never again, big purple double decker, slow but sure.


Not so sure about that one.I personally know somebody killed last year on one of those buses.

They open up like a can of sardines....and the drivers are normally dickheads

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## Thormaturge

This guy has many alternatives, including setting up a real company and employing people if he wants to stay here legally.

 Some of us have.  It isn't easy but if you don't like it there is always the plane back "home".

 What angers me more is the way foreigners are fleeced over the company formation process.  One of my clients who works here for a British engineering company has seen his firm charged...I kid you not...ThB 4,million for setting up a Thai company (nope that doesn't include the start-up capital).  I know of this because he had to consult with me over the work permit process as that wasn't part of the package.

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## VocalNeal

Mr. Reid Ridgway,

Should consider himself fortunate to be staying long term in a country which has such friendly immigration laws and is country with land borders. This allows him to travel overland to a neighbouring country and have his passport stamped by an official of said friendly immigration dept.

Mr. Ridgeway is in Asia not Europe so all the nanny state expressions like "duty of care" are meaningless here. Any nightmare Mr. Ridgeway experiences are because he is trying to stay in Thailand on the cheap. If he wishes to stay here long term as has been said there are avenues available for him to do so.
He is gaming the system and complaining about doing so.

He is also probably a media studies graduate who actually believes that the pen is mightier than the sword. He also probably believes that the squeaky wheel gets the grease where in fact in Asia the nail that sticks out gets pounded down.

Mr. Ridgeway refers to these journeys to acquire a new visa as an industry.  I would prefer to explain it as a very kind gesture by the Thai Immigration dept. to facilitate such a system.

I think the authorities should look into the incident but not in the way Mr. Ridgeway would like but to have an in-depth investigation as to how Mr. Ridgeway acquires the funds to remain in Thailand. 

Oh wait Mr. Ridgeway is starting a visa run service from Phuket where he has a van that is limited to 110 kph and whose drivers are all professionally trained. That is unless the authorities solve the problem by stopping all land based travel for applications to extent a stay and force all to have to fly to a neighbouring country instead of driving.

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## 9999

^ Going by this logic, holiday makers using cheap airlines should suffer dangerous flights with maniac pilots because Thailand is kind enough to let tourists in on a visa exemption. 

I really don't get this mob using this example of crazy tour bus driving (which is not limited to visa runners) as a node to voice their opinions about how the Thais deal with immigration policy.

It's an opportunity for those who think they are special to stand up and say 'hey, I have a visa that makes me better than you', thinly veiled brags about something that is certainly nothing to brag over.

People do visa runs within the rules (you may call it gaming the system, but the Thais know it happens and could stop it if they want to) and they should consider themselves fortunate and it's their fault these buses are allowed to operate? That's just crazy.

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## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by jamescollister
> 
> 
> Catch the big bus, it's slower, but safer.
>  When I lived in Samui did one mini van run, never again, big purple double decker, slow but sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so sure about that one.I personally know somebody killed last year on one of those buses.
> ...


Think if there was a head on crash between a mini van and a big merc bus, know which one I'd rather be in.

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## kingwilly

> Originally Posted by kingwilly
> 
> 
> He had the chance to get out and chose not to. He lives in a country on tourist visas by choice. Boohoo.
> 
> 
> How do you know it's a tourist visa?


How many other visas force people to do visa runs every few weeks?


9999, it's not boasting ffs, that you even think it's a boast is so bery, very sad. I dont even know what visa I'm on and nor do I give a fuc job, so long as it's hassle free.

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## Fluke

It doesnt actually state which kind of visa he is on , wouldnt be a Tourist Visa anyway. Considering that he married, hes probably on a spouse Visa .
  But his Visa status is irrelevant to the story .

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## pickel

> Considering that he married, hes probably on a spouse Visa .


If that were the case he wouldn't have to do visa runs.

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## cyrille

> But his Visa status is irrelevant to the story


It is really, yes

Though 'constantly' having to do visa runs after 12 years, marriage and three kids _does_ raise some questions about how bright the guy is.

And surely in Thailand if you don't like something the best (as in 'most effective and least morale sapping') thing to do is to find a way around it, rather than starting some kind of campaign and getting all _farang jai rawn_...

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## ACT

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> Considering that he married, hes probably on a spouse Visa .
> 
> 
> If that were the case he wouldn't have to do visa runs.


It would be the person having an Extension of Temporary Stay based on marriage that decides he has to do visa runs or not, not the visa.

A multiple-entry visa based on marriage still requires the holder to leave Thailand every 90 days unless they get an Extension of Temporary Stay, even though the visa has a duration of 12 months they still have to do border runs every 90 days.

----------


## pickel

A non-imm o visa (marriage visa) is 90 days, which you then get a 1 year extension to. After that you are only required to do 90 day reporting at your local immigration office.

----------


## 9999

> 9999, it's not boasting ffs, that you even think it's a boast is so bery, very sad. I dont even know what visa I'm on and nor do I give a fuc job, so long as it's hassle free.


It so is boasting. Especially in the case of ACT. 69 posts and I've read in 3 different threads him finding any opportunity to tell everyone his employment and visa status in a boastful condescending to others manner.

Why the hate on visa runners anyway? So much hate that if they died due to reckless driving you'd say it's there fault for being tight arse visa runners. That is extremely sad. The mind boggles.

----------


## 9999

What kind of cheap arse is so poor they need to stay in Thailand for so long without leaving anyway? They all deserve to be gunned down by drunk monkeys brandishing machine guns.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## kingwilly

> It so is boasting. Especially in the case of ACT. 69 posts and I've read in 3 different threads him finding any opportunity to tell everyone his employment and visa status in a boastful condescending to others manner.
> .


Well, i havnt paid much attention, maybe he/she is.




> Why the hate on visa runners anyway? So much hate that if they died due to reckless driving you'd say it's there fault for being tight arse visa runners. That is extremely sad. The mind boggles.


Who do you think fuels the visa run bus market? 


Without cheap charlies and illegals there wouldnt be a single visa run bus, let alone 100s of them.

----------


## Fluke

Illegals dont contribute to Visa runs .
Quite the opposite actually .

----------


## 9999

> Where in that post did I say anyone deserved to die?


You made it pretty clear that you wish death upon visa runners this is what I'm hysterical about.

Admittedly the letter writer in the OP does seem like a bit of a tosser.

But maniacs driving buses, mini-vans etc is a huge problem. There's been 2 major bus collisions in the last two months where about 50 (Thai) people have died due to the type of reckless driving described in the OP.

So to say that visa runners are the cause of the problem is ridiculous. 

Your line is that visa runners deserve these sort of death defying journeys because they are not wealthy. Does that not therefore translate to them deserving to die for their cheap chaliery?

----------


## Fluke

> Illegals, dodgy teachers and cheap ass retirees fuel the visa run trade, without them needing to do quick, regular trips to the border and back. Proper tourists stop to see the sites and take some time and therefore would not bother. 
> 
> It's not difficult to understand. ..


  Illegals dont need to do Visa runs .
Teachers get working Visas .
Retirees get annual Visas .
You really have no idea  what you are talking about

----------


## kingwilly

So who are doing all these visa runs then?

----------


## kingwilly

If regular visa runs are not circumnavigating the law then what are they?

----------


## Fluke

> So who are doing all these visa runs then?


  Various people do Visa runs . There isnt just one type of person that does Visa runs
Study Visa & Working Visas have to be applied for outside Thailand

----------


## 9999

> If regular visa runs are not circumnavigating the law then what are they?


You need to ask the Thais. In the case of non-immigrant ) visa, you are allowed to stay for 90 days and get as many entries as you like within a year. I've been told by Thai embassy staff that I can stay for a year and only need to cross the border. And when it expires just pop back in for another non-O. 

I will however concede that it's a grey area. Heck, I'll even concede that every single visa runner is criminal scum. 

This still does not condone this type of driving. And visa runs take up such a small proportion of buses / vans driven dangerously that taking the scum out of the equation would simply shift the maniacs drivers to other services with perhaps less death deserving patrons.

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## Fluke

> If regular visa runs are not circumnavigating the law then what are they?


  They are not circumnavigating the law at all .
They are adhering to the immigration law .

----------


## kingwilly

Then why does the government have a crackdown every now and the then?

Tourist buses would not suddenly take up the slack in extra buses and drivers assuming these clowns even have a licence to drive...

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## cyrille

> A multiple-entry visa based on marriage still requires the holder to leave Thailand every 90 days unless they get an Extension of Temporary Stay, even though the visa has a duration of 12 months they still have to do border runs every 90 days.


But he says he's 'constantly' having to do visa runs.

So either he's doing them far more often than once every 90 days or he's chronically prone to exaggeration, which would actually fit given the rest of his account of this fast and furious visa run.

----------


## 9999

> Then why does the government have a crackdown every now and the then?


The crack downs I'm aware of were for serial visa exempt border runners, and people getting several consecutive double entry tourist visas from Laos.

I'm not aware of any crack down on non-O visas, which would make up the majority of visa runners.




> Tourist buses would not suddenly take up the slack in extra buses and drivers assuming these clowns even have a licence to drive...


That's a lot of assuming. You are suggesting that it's only visa run vans that take on maniac drivers. This is not the case. If it wasn't for the visa run scumbags getting driven about by these maniacs, they would end up driving school kids on excursions. Hows that for logic?

----------


## cyrille

> So who are doing all these visa runs then?


Obviously not people in Thailand illegally, _ie without visas_, willy.





> They are not circumnavigating the law at all .


I assume willy means 'circumventing' the law.

And no, of course people leaving the country _on valid visas_ and returning _with valid visas_ are not circumventing the law.

----------


## cyrille

> I'm not aware of any crack down on non-O visas, which would make up the majority of visa runners.


I'd have thought the vast majority of people on these buses are on tourist visas.

People who have to do it every 15 days and haven't been around long enough to work out better ways of doing it.

And just the occasional friendless and rather uninformed long termer like Rick Ridgedick or whatever his name is.

----------


## 9999

> I'd have thought the vast majority of people on these buses are on tourist visas.


I dunno, they have cracked down on perpetual tourist visa stayers, and there are a heck of a lot of people that live here on non-O visas the leave the country every 3 months. I'm guessing the tosser writing the letter in the OP is on a non-O. Either that, perpetual tourist visas (meaning more than just a quick border run every 6 months), or he's doing the trip every 15 days.

----------


## cyrille

> there are a heck of a lot of people that live here on non-O visas the leave the country every 3 months.


Sure, but tourists have to do it 6 times more often than that, and are far less likely to choose to use other means of transport because they know what the buses are like.

And in this case it's Phuket...

----------


## cyrille

Anyway, the best solution is to live where the scum to decent people ratio is more in your favour.

Like Chiang Mai, where you can use the excellent 'Green Bus' company. Then you can wind your way at a leisurely pace along a bucolic route through the hills towards Mae Sai. Relaxing in your reclining seat with extra legroom, skillfully sculpted for the larger backside.

----------


## 9999

> Like Chiang Mai, where you can use the excellent 'Green Bus' company. Then you can wind your way at a leisurely pace along a bucolic route through the hills towards Mae Sai. Relaxing in your reclining seat with extra legroom, skillfully sculpted for the larger backside.


I took this bus about a dozen times before I started driving. I found these bus drivers to be pretty good, the trip easy and well timed. I'd always get seat A1, where you sit alone and get the extra leg room at the front. Happy days.

----------


## beerlaodrinker

Perhaps the bottom line here is, (no pun intended about cyrilles backside) why do the Thais make it so hard? Why the need to keep jumping across a border, the Philippines let you stay 1year before you have to exit(most faring passports) you still need to keep paying and visiting immigration, so much easier I think, why are the Thai so xenophobic?

----------


## 9999

^ I think the theory is if they just opened up the flood gates and l;et all comers stay the place would be over-run with smelly falang beggars.

PI on the other hand, it's such a shit hole they need to beg people to visit the joint. Just my theory  :Very Happy: 

One thing is for sure though it's a lot easier for us to visit Thailand than it is for a Thai to visit Aus, and they certainly can't come over and just do border runs every few months, even if we did have borders.

----------


## kingwilly

> Originally Posted by kingwilly
> 
> So who are doing all these visa runs then?
> 
> 
> Obviously not people in Thailand illegally, _ie without visas_, willy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whoops. :embarrassing:

----------


## Fluke

> Perhaps the bottom line here is, (no pun intended about cyrilles backside) why do the Thais make it so hard? Why the need to keep jumping across a border, the Philippines let you stay 1year before you have to exit(most faring passports) you still need to keep paying and visiting immigration, so much easier I think, why are the Thai so xenophobic?



  Philippines give you a two month tourist  Visa , the same as Thailand

----------


## 9999

You can easily rock up at PI immigration though and extend you stay without having to leave the country.

----------


## cyrille

> PI on the other hand, it's such a shit hole they need to beg people to visit the joint.


 :Smile: 

Surely that has to be part of it.

Life is much easier for long term westerners in Malaysia too, but I don't see any queues.

----------


## Fluke

> You can easily rock up at PI immigration though and extend you stay without having to leave the country.


  For another 30 days ? as you can also do in Thailand

----------


## 9999

> For another 30 days ? as you can also do in Thailand


I don't know the rules but think you can just keep rocking up and paying to stay. Someone who knows is bound to chime in.

----------


## rickschoppers

All interesting banter about visa runs and how to work within the Thai immigration requirements. I also do not understand why it is made so difficult for those who are married to a Thai national or have a child with a Thai woman. 

If you are married to a Thai woman and use that as a reason for applying for an O visa, you still have to leave the country every 90 days. It has become harder to obtain a one year extension on an O visa and immigration is now asking for a lot more than they used to. The logic of making things harder rather than easier, really escapes me.

As for transportation for a visa run, I do agree with those recommending the bus. I am lucky to only live about 55 kms from the Laos border and can park my car in a lot overnight for 100 baht. Even though this makes things easier, I still resent the fact that I do have to leave the country. 

I will be long gone before anything changes in Thailand that benefits foreigner when it comes to visas.

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## jamescollister

> All interesting banter about visa runs and how to work within the Thai immigration requirements. I also do not understand why it is made so difficult for those who are married to a Thai national or have a child with a Thai woman. 
> 
> If you are married to a Thai woman and use that as a reason for applying for an O visa, you still have to leave the country every 90 days. It has become harder to obtain a one year extension on an O visa and immigration is now asking for a lot more than they used to. The logic of making things harder rather than easier, really escapes me.
> 
> As for transportation for a visa run, I do agree with those recommending the bus. I am lucky to only live about 55 kms from the Laos border and can park my car in a lot overnight for 100 baht. Even though this makes things easier, I still resent the fact that I do have to leave the country. 
> 
> I will be long gone before anything changes in Thailand that benefits foreigner when it comes to visas.


You are right, they are making it harder for mult O spouse, think Savannakhet Lao is the last that doesn't require a Thai bank statement showing 100,000 plus..
Used to be you could get a child support extension of stay, 400,000 in the bankone day.
Rules have not changed, interpretations have, who knows what next.

I'm lucky, can change over to A W/P, but don't like taxes, or work.
Pattaya sells retirement visas for 15,000, I'm told.

----------


## 9999

It might depend on where you get your non-O from. Got mine from Brisbane it was a piece of piss. I took in Mrs passport copy, daughter's birth cert, scrambled to consolidate 140K bt in my BKK bank acc and also took an Aussie bank statement, rocked up to the consulate all prepared, and all they needed was a copy of my kid's birth certificate, they didn't want to look at bank statements or anything else. It took 2 hours to process.

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## jamescollister

> It might depend on where you get your non-O from. Got mine from Brisbane it was a piece of piss. I took in Mrs passport copy, daughter's birth cert, scrambled to consolidate 140K bt in my BKK bank acc and also took an Aussie bank statement, rocked up to the consulate all prepared, and all they needed was a copy of my kid's birth certificate, they didn't want to look at bank statements or anything else. It took 2 hours to process.


Home country, no problem, used to get mine in Melbourne. 
Problems in SEA, guess they are saying, if you don't fly home yearly you don't have enough money to be here.
Probably right, have money, get an extension, if flying in and out regularly, get a multi O.
Not right for guys with families, but it's the rules, not going to get better I think.

----------


## ACT

> Originally Posted by kingwilly
> 
> So who are doing all these visa runs then?
> 
> 
> Obviously not people in Thailand illegally, _ie without visas_, willy.


Many do 30 day border runs without visas. When they cross back in they are given a 30 day Visa-Exemption.

They are without Visas. 

In some places such as Chiang Mai I believe they make up a large % of the amount of visa runners.




> I assume willy means 'circumventing' the law.
> 
> And no, of course people leaving the country _on valid visas_ and returning _with valid visas_ are not circumventing the law.


As said already many don't have visas, and either way they are certainly acting illegally if they are working here without the proper visa etc.

----------


## ACT

> Perhaps the bottom line here is, (no pun intended about cyrilles backside) why do the Thais make it so hard?


It's not hard at all.

All people need to do is show an income of 40k baht and visit immigration once a year. Every 90 days your PA mails them a photocopied slip of paper.

Job done.

And that's only for males.

Female Westerners don't have to show any proof of funds at all. Nothing. Just marriage certs. 

So why the difference and why the rules. Probably because everybody except the poor blokes who can't manage it would have them also. Who wants penniless, saddo foreigners invading their country? With their anger issues, mental issues, flabbiness and smell. No thanks.

----------


## ACT

> A non-imm o visa (marriage visa) is 90 days, which you then get a 1 year extension to. After that you are only required to do 90 day reporting at your local immigration office.


Incorrect. 

That is for a Non-Imm O Single Entry based on marriage.

A Non-Imm O Multi-Entry can be used for 12 months from the date of issue.

Upon entering you are given a 90 day Permission of Stay. Without getting an Extension of Temporary Stay you will need to leave within 90 days whenever you enter Thailand during the 12 months you can use it.*

*Of course entering Thailand on the last day of the 12 months that a Multi-Entry Non-Imm visa gives you, will give you an extra 90 days beyond the 12 months, so is really 15 months. This is a Non-Imm Multi-Entry based on marriage requiring border runs every 90 days.

----------


## cyrille

> Many do 30 day border runs without visas. When they cross back in they are given a 30 day Visa-Exemption.
> 
> They are without Visas.


OK, but that's just semantics.




> They are without Visas. 
> 
> In some places such as Chiang Mai I believe they make up a large % of the amount of visa runners.


Then they're not visa runners are they.

They're visa exemption runners. Beyond the remit of the thread, by your logic.

 :mid:

----------


## cyrille

> Probably because everybody except the poor blokes who can't manage it would have them also. Who wants penniless, saddo foreigners invading their country? With their anger issues, mental issues, flabbiness and smell. No thanks.


Ah, OK.

You're just on a wind up.

Fair enough.

Yawn.

----------


## ACT

> Originally Posted by ACT
> 
> Many do 30 day border runs without visas. When they cross back in they are given a 30 day Visa-Exemption.
> 
> They are without Visas.
> 
> 
> OK, but that's just semantics.
> 
> I could maintain that people getting visa exemptions are beyond the remit of this thread because they are not doing visa runs...


Semantics was actually one of my majors.

Actually they're border runs, visa runs are usually when the person is going to get a visa in an Embassy or Consulate in a neighbouring country, with border runs being a quick cross-over of a border to activate another permission of stay, but unfortunately the terms are often mish-mashed by people not really knowing what they're on about. 




> I think you got my point: people getting in these 'keeping your papers in order vans' are self evidently not illegals.


I presume you mean in a Visa sense. Again quite debatable at the very least. If working here in any manner (Thail labour law really covers everything from scratching your sweeping the floor in your abode as being 'work') and using a Visa which clearly states 'All Employment Prohibited' (do 15/30 day Visa Exemptions also state this?) then they could well be classed as visa illegals. Knowingly entering a country to partake in work while using a visa that prohibits this. What % of people working here in the lower sectors - teaching, marketing, loan sharking - have valid visas and work permits...

----------


## pickel

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
> A non-imm o visa (marriage  visa) is 90 days, which you then get a 1 year extension to. After that  you are only required to do 90 day reporting at your local immigration  office.
> 
> 
> Incorrect. 
> 
> That is for a Non-Imm O Single Entry based on marriage.
> ...


The guy in the OP is complaining about having to do visa runs. Why the fukk would he have a multiple entry if he is eligible for a single entry which doesn't require visa runs. And with a single entry you can purchase a re-entry permit from immigration, if you do wish to exit the country and come back.





> Ah, OK.  You're just on a wind up.  Fair enough.  Yawn.


As I pointed out earlier in the thread, ACT is the poster formerly known as Momo, one of the weakest trolls to ever grace the pages of TD. The post was deleted, yet multinicking is apparently still allowed.

----------


## ACT

> Originally Posted by ACT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by pickel
> ...


Why?

Ummm, because they haven't got the funds to extend the single entry visa so it is only one entry of 90 days. That's it. 90 days later they have no visa.

Multi-Entry they have a visa that is valid for 12 months. Actually 15 months if they do their last border run just before the 12 months has expired.

Can you see the difference for people who don't have the funds to get an extension? 90 days and 15 months. Quite a difference in time there, maybe get a calendar to help you differentiate?

----------


## ACT

> Originally Posted by ACT
> 
> Ummm, because they haven't got the funds to extend the single entry visa so it is only one entry of 90 days. That's it. 90 days later they have no visa.
> 
> 
> Then he shouldn't have had a wife and kids, and there's nothing he can complain about.


Actually there is.


Females don't have to show any proof of funds to get an Extension of Temporary Stay based on marriage.

They can also apply for a Thai passport after 5 years of continuous extensions. Extensions that are granted with simply a marriage cert.

And there's that fool forced into 12 years of border runs while a female equivalent would have had a Thai passport 7 years ago.  :Smile:

----------


## jamescollister

ACT, like to tell us where it says you can fax your 90 day report in to immigration, thought that was only for too sick to travel. Jim

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## Fluke

> Many do 30 day border runs without visas. When they cross back in they are given a 30 day Visa-Exemption.
> 
> They are without Visas. 
> 
> .


  The 30 day Visa exempt stamp finished years ago, four or five years ago they stopped issuing 30 day visa exempt stamps .
  Nowadays they only give 15 day  visa exempt stamps with a maximum of four , although they do give you more than four , they tell you not to come back for anymore .

----------


## Fluke

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by kingwilly
> ...


  I stated some facts , you are welcome to disagree with them .

----------


## FloridaBorn

> ^^^Yep to all.


And more over can't he drive himself and deal with it at the border if it's such a problem? What he is doing is more likely to backlash and no option will be provided for the safety for all in the future, that's the Thai way but not even exclusively them but most governments choose the easy route and just outlaw whatever the complaint is about altogether instead fixing it..

----------


## chassamui

> I stated some facts , you are welcome to disagree with them


Appzrently you don't, and we are welcome to disagree.  In the absence of facts we are entitled to disagree.

----------


## Fluke

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> I stated some facts , you are welcome to disagree with them
> 
> 
> Appzrently you don't, and we are welcome to disagree.  In the absence of facts we are entitled to disagree.


 The facts that I stated were that retired  people dont have to do regular Visa runs , neither do people who are here illegally and neither do Teachers on Working Visas.
   You are welcome to disagree , but it would help you case if you would actually prove that I am wrong, rather than just saying it .

----------


## somtamslap

Hardly exclusive to visa runs.

Take the train instead.

----------


## toddaniels

That drivel sounds like another whiner about all-thingz-thai and the injustice of it all where foreigners are concerned. It is my experience that tooting your own horn about how you managed to marry a thai and procreate with them; as a rule cuts very little ice with these people. 

He sounds like he's out of the loop about yearly extensions of stay based on marriage to a thai or having half-breed kids. It also sounds like he's pulling multi-entry Non-O visas outta the country necessitating a visa run every 90 days, or worse he's a chronic "runner" and hitting the border for 30 day visa exempt stamps or to activate another entry on a 60 day tourist visa.

That the visa run he went on was "perilous" is on him 100%; as has been pointed out by other posters, there are more options to get to the border than a cheap death-defying mini-van run.

----------


## jamiejambos

> Originally Posted by chassamui
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Fluke
> ...


When I first came to Thailand on a multi-entry non-immigrant ''O'' Visa I had to do border-runs every 90 days until I changed it to a   Retirement visa during my last 90 days producing all the correct paperwork and proof of 800,000 baht in a thai bank account and I have to report to the immigration office in person every 90 days and submit a completed tm 47 form to obtain another 90 days permission to stay in Thailand...easy peasy japanesey.  Have never had a problem over the years because I don't make things complicated for myself.

----------


## ACT

^ Can't you just mail the 90 day report form to immigration, instead of having to visit them.

Perhaps it's only BKK and other metropolises that you can mail the 90 day report to.


Also, with a Thai spouse the guy in the OP (or anyone else with a spouse) can get a 60 day extension based on visiting one's spouse with nothing but a marriage cert. This goes for all visas and Visa Exemptions.

It is sometimes nicknamed the Unofficial Marriage visa - do a border run with no visa, get 30 days, during this 30 day period visit immigration with spouse and marriage cert, get 60 day extension of stay for 1,900 baht. 

Repeat.

----------


## ACT

> He sounds like he's out of the loop about yearly extensions of stay based on marriage to a thai or having half-breed kids.


Probably can't show proof of funds for annual extensions.

Some people get the 400k off a loan shark for two months. Interest costs 8-10k baht, plus 1900b for the extension.

Probably cheaper than a 5k baht visa and 90 day border runs.

----------


## cyrille

> Probably can't show proof of funds for annual extensions.


That seems by far the most likely reason.

Whatever the reason is I really think he'd be better off spending some time solving his own problems than launching campaigns.

----------


## Little Chuchok

> Originally Posted by cyrille
> 
> I'd have thought the vast majority of people on these buses are on tourist visas.
> 
> 
> I dunno, they have cracked down on perpetual tourist visa stayers, and there are a heck of a lot of people that live here on non-O visas the leave the country every 3 months. I'm guessing the tosser writing the letter in the OP is on a non-O. Either that, perpetual tourist visas (meaning more than just a quick border run every 6 months), or he's doing the trip every 15 days.


You are bang on right.

I used to have to leave the country every 3 months on a multi entry.Was good though, because just as my visa was about to expire, I pissed off to Burma for a day giving myself another three months.Mind you, I used to drive myself...

Some of the guys here just assume these blokes were on tourist visas

----------


## pickel

> The 30 day Visa exempt stamp finished years ago, four or five years ago they stopped issuing 30 day visa exempt stamps . Nowadays they only give 15 day visa exempt stamps with a maximum of four , although they do give you more than four , they tell you not to come back for anymore .


The 30 day stamp has always been available at airport immigration when you fly into the country. And it is now available again at land crossings to people from a handful of Western countries.

----------


## Fluke

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> The 30 day Visa exempt stamp finished years ago, four or five years ago they stopped issuing 30 day visa exempt stamps . Nowadays they only give 15 day visa exempt stamps with a maximum of four , although they do give you more than four , they tell you not to come back for anymore .
> 
> 
> The 30 day stamp has always been available at airport immigration when you fly into the country. And it is now available again at land crossings to people from a handful of Western countries.


  Yes, but we are talking about overland entry .
What Nationalities can now get a 30 day VES at land border crossings ?

----------


## ACT

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Fluke
> ...


Passport holders from the USA, UK, Canada, Germany, Italy, France, Japan among others.

The 15 day VE's at land crossings that you speak of was extended to 30 days for all G7 Countries (having been reduced from 30 to 15 a number of years ago). 

You seem to be completely unaware of this.

----------


## 9999

> I used to have to leave the country every 3 months on a multi entry.Was good though, because just as my visa was about to expire, I pissed off to Burma for a day giving myself another three months.Mind you, I used to drive myself...


Yeah I'm the same. I opt for the 90 day multi, an excuse to leave the country really. I either make a road trip out of it or fly back to Aus. But still, despite what you think of visa runners, or you opinion of Thai immigration policy and how they police it, you can't put the blame on the visa runners for maniacal driving. Anyway I said that about 50 times so I'll shut up now  :Very Happy:

----------


## beerlaodrinker

> ^ I think the theory is if they just opened up the flood gates and l;et all comers stay the place would be over-run with smelly falang beggars. PI on the other hand, it's such a shit hole they need to beg people to visit the joint. Just my theory One thing is for sure though it's a lot easier for us to visit Thailand than it is for a Thai to visit Aus, and they certainly can't come over and just do border runs every few months, even if we did have borders.


 Yes Thats true 






> Philippines give you a two month tourist Visa , the same as Thailand


 i think its 21 days Fluke but the point i was making is they dont make you leave the country, just keep extending the visa for up to 1 year, then they make you leave for a border run

----------


## Fluke

> Originally Posted by Fluke
> 
> Philippines give you a two month tourist Visa , the same as Thailand
> 
> 
>  i think its 21 days Fluke but the point i was making is they dont make you leave the country, just keep extending the visa for up to 1 year, then they make you leave for a border run



  Thailand seems to be trying to attract short term holiday makers, rather than long term back packers .
  The Philippines are happy to accommodate the dollar a day hippies

----------


## beerlaodrinker

You really don't see a lot of backpackers in the Philippines fluke, or hostels either, the Philippines have a long way to go before they can attract mainstream tourists like Thailand wants, there's a large population of retirees there though, some beautiful places to but it's the grunginess of it that starts in Manila that puts people of wanting to see more or make a return visit, I like the place and could easily live there,  THe wife won't let me though,

----------

