#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  Why I will always rent in Thailand......

## Stumpy

I am renting this cool place near the beach in Cha am as some of you know. Well  appx 2 weeks ago a guy right behind me has decided to take up chicken farming. He has worked round the clock building coops and leveling his land to let the feathered noisy things do there deal. Well a week ago he had nealy 100 of the noisy bastards  roaming around. I grew up on a farm as a kid so I am not all that annoyed by the sound but the smell of wet soggy chicken shit is something to behold and worse yet is to be down wind from it. We have enjoyed a few good rains down here in Cha am over the last week. Its not only the smell but the flies, the dung beetles and eventually cockroaches that just infest the place. 

The owner of the house I am renting came by yesterday and asked if we would be interested in buying the house. I said NO FUCKING WAY! I walked him towards the side of the house and he got a big ass whiff of the chicken shit smell. He was livid. Worse off this is the side with the master bedroom so now the the windows are closed up where before we got a nice breeze and seldom used the fan or AC.

So while I appreciate no zoning and building requirements it can also work against you. What was once a cool little beach house is now a house with some chicken shit smell blowing through the yard all the time and you get hours of the roosters screaming and the hens whining while getting laid. Ahhhh the beauty of renting. I gave notice yesterday. 

Some of the things I have watched Thais do to a nice area is stunning. Take a nice townhouse area and open up noodle shops in their driveway, Build 20 foot walls where the side you see is sinter blocks and unfinished while their side is finished. I have watched them drop plumbing and set in pumps right by their neighbors window, Make their front yards a jungle and then are forced to park their cars in the street blocking up the road all the time. Steal power from neighbors and open up shops round the clock. My Fav is the guy who owns a pig farm and off's the pork'er at 3am to butcher it up for market. All this happens in your local neighborhoods. 

Its great stuff and love the general neighbor courtesy... :smiley laughing:

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## BobR

You're smart to rent, it's much easier to move when you get neighbors from hell.  The story in the Bangkok Post today about the newly compelted AETAS Hotel in Bangok which may need to be torn down because of a politically inspired technicality is another warning; if your condo building is defective or condemned guess whose going to stand the loss.  My car is my biggest investment here, and in a real pinch I could afford to give it away and leave, I could not afford to lose a house or a condo. Don't buy anthing here you cannot afford to lose.

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## Bettyboo

> Don't buy anthing here you cannot afford to lose.


Good advice.

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## Ceburat1

That not only goes for a house, car, or whatever the little lady wants.  In any country other than your own, only buy what you can afford to walk away from.

I have a goat farm about 200 feet behind the back of my house and a mil 9 feet outside of my kitchen door. A junkie house across the street in front and a field that is always being plowed on the north side of the house.  Welcome to Thailand.

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## Stumpy

> You're smart to rent, it's much easier to move when you get neighbors from hell.  The story in the Bangkok Post today about the newly compelted AETAS Hotel in Bangok which may need to be torn down because of a politically inspired technicality is another warning; if your condo building is defective or condemned guess whose going to stand the loss.  My car is my biggest investment here, and in a real pinch I could afford to give it away and leave, I could not afford to lose a house or a condo. Don't buy anthing here you cannot afford to lose.


^ Indeed. Renting is the only way to go. There are far more neighbors from hell around here then I care to think about. With virtually no laws its a free for all and you have zero recourse(Thai or Foreigner). I asked the home owner what he was going to do..He said 'What can he do". He was extremely agitated. He will not sell this house for a long time if ever unless he takes a huge price hit. To bad, nice pad.  

I have moved 2 times due to neighbors. This one here in Cha am and the guy in BKK who built a huge wall that blocked everyone in and made it a hellish place to live. I always laugh when I see the foreigner who built this nice place and right next to his house every Thai has decided it is a dump zone. There are a lot of these in Hua Hin. Poor bastards. 5 to 7mil baht deal and a refuge site right next door.  

Lets not even get into the flooding dealio.

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## Bettyboo

> Some of the things I have watched Thais do to a nice area is stunning. Take a nice townhouse area and open up noodle shops in their driveway, Build 20 foot walls where the side you see is sinter blocks and unfinished while their side is finished. I have watched them drop plumbing and set in pumps right by their neighbors window, Make their front yards a jungle and then are forced to park their cars in the street blocking up the road all the time. Steal power from neighbors and open up shops round the clock. My Fav is the guy who owns a pig farm and off's the pork'er at 3am to butcher it up for market. All this happens in your local neighborhoods.


& this is why I hate the fukers.

They have zero respect for themselves or others...  :Sad: 
(& that's not 1 or 2, it is the vast majority.)

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## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> Some of the things I have watched Thais do to a nice area is stunning. Take a nice townhouse area and open up noodle shops in their driveway, Build 20 foot walls where the side you see is sinter blocks and unfinished while their side is finished. I have watched them drop plumbing and set in pumps right by their neighbors window, Make their front yards a jungle and then are forced to park their cars in the street blocking up the road all the time. Steal power from neighbors and open up shops round the clock. My Fav is the guy who owns a pig farm and off's the pork'er at 3am to butcher it up for market. All this happens in your local neighborhoods.
> 
> 
> & this is why I hate the fukers.
> 
> They have zero respect for themselves or others... 
> (& that's not 1 or 2, it is the vast majority.)


And that's why [among other reasons] you insist on living here still.

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## chitown

I am beginning to think they enjoy irritating farangs as well as Thais. They do some of the most bizarre things that even a retarded person would not do. 

I was walking in the locker room at a supposed high class fitness center in Silom today. There is entrance to showers, steam and sauna rooms. As I was walking through the entrance, 4 of the idiots tried to squeeze all around me to get in first. They were adult Thai men acting as if they were in 5th grade with towels wrapped around them. Whatever, I thought, as they won the race and got in the sauna first. I walked in and sat down and the fools started doing calisthenics in the sauna and talking loudly. The loud talk was ok, but sweat was flying off of them when they were doing jumping jacks and flopping around like epileptics. They ran out real quick when I grabbed 2 pails of water and dumped them onto the hot sauna stones. These same dickheads stand around in front of the mirrors int the locker room popping zits shooting the puss on the mirror, emptying sinuses in the sink, picking their nose and ears and flexing while taking pictures of each other. Yes they are adult men! Another group congregates around the water cooler and at the top of the flight of stairs going into the cardio room blocking both areas and expecting everyone to squeeze around them. I have just decided to burst through the crowd and disrupt their circle jerk because I think it all on purpose. 

One sat on a machine for over 20 minutes that I was clearly waiting for. Was he pumping iron? Nope, he was typing on his I-phone the whole time. What kind of gym etiquette is that? Back home, that would get you a dumbbell upside the head/.

Now mind you, these are the elites, the rich of Thailand. They drive BMW's, Mercs and one has a Lotus. They supposedly are all rich and travel about the globe. I have said to my wife and other Thais, that none of that matters if you have zero common sense and even less manners. They are closet savages at best.

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## Bangyai

The problem with a lot of working class Thais and their terraced homes is that they are totally into function and _completely_ oblivious to aesthetics.

In the last village we lived, our house was in front of the park. For two years it looked very nice because the developers looked after it and refused to let it be changed.. As below




Then, the residents took over the ' maintenance ' and the decline began.

The Dta Kraw club poured concrete over the decorative star to make a dta kraw court. 

The bird lovers lopped down a few trees to make way for bird stands.

A load of cheap plastic kids playground stuff appeared and took over one corner.

The grass was not cut

The litter was not picked up

The fences were kicked down.

I don't have a current picture to show what it looks like , now that it is purely functional  ,but I'm going back there tomorrow to collect something and will take a picture. Very sad. They have turned it into a complete slum and :
They are as happy as pigs in shit but can't understand why their property values have slumped 200,000 baht.

Fortunately we got out in the nick of time and made a small profit on our place.

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## Ceburat1

The modern way of raising children in USA seems to be the Asian way too - No parental guidance from birth on and no proper education/guidance from the school system.  A child simply grows up doing what they want. No values, No direction, and No manners. I have never in my twenty years in Asia been able to accept an adult with a bowl of food chasing a child to get them to eat. I want to puke when I see it. But I guess that's part of living here.

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## liveinlos

Most of the people complaining about living conditions do so because they cannot afford to buy. You can have neighbors from hell in any country in the world if you think about it. Forums tend to bring out all the bitchers and complainers. Those that made smart land/home purchases have no reason to be posting, hence the posters are all disenchanted renters. I am amazed with so much complaining why do so many continue to stay instead of packing it up and moving to a place they will have nothing to complain about? Not every foreigner in this country has a bad experience or multiple bad living experiences. If you are renting, you have nothing to complain about, because it isn't yours. If you are not aware that things types of things can spring up anywhere in Thailand, you are not very smart in the ways of Thailand at all.  Anywhere there are neighbors and open land is fair game. If you want want to play that game, move to Isaan and buy yourself a couple hundred 1,000 rai on all sides and live right in the middle.

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## Bettyboo

^ I don't agree. I live in an expensive estate (rent...) where the homes range from a few million to many tens of million (my place is around 6 million; the estate next door is one of the most expensive in Bkk), and the people act like gyppos; throw shite everywhere, decaying properties, stick a bloody stall outside your house at 4am... Utter wankers.

[Having said that, the sino-Thai family next to me who have a very nice house are good neighbours and keep their house in excellent order; they are the exception.]




> And that's why [among other reasons] you insist on living here still.


As you know, I'm at my happiest when I'm complaining...  :Smile:

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## Bettyboo

> I was walking in the locker room at a supposed high class fitness center in Silom today.


Sounds a bit gay, mate.




> As I was walking through the entrance, 4 of the idiots tried to squeeze all around me


Sounds extremely gay, my friend.




> with towels wrapped around them.


Oh dear!




> the fools started doing calisthenics in the sauna


& you stayed in that frenzied gay environment?




> while taking pictures of each other.


Get out of there, quick!




> I have just decided to burst through the crowd and disrupt their circle jerk


 
Oops, too late...

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## Bettyboo

> Now mind you, these are the elites, the rich of Thailand.





> The problem with a lot of working class Thais


See, I told you - they are ALL fukers... (maybe, just maybe, a few of the mobile middle class are okay).

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## RickThai

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> Some of the things I have watched Thais do to a nice area is stunning. Take a nice townhouse area and open up noodle shops in their driveway, Build 20 foot walls where the side you see is sinter blocks and unfinished while their side is finished. I have watched them drop plumbing and set in pumps right by their neighbors window, Make their front yards a jungle and then are forced to park their cars in the street blocking up the road all the time. Steal power from neighbors and open up shops round the clock. My Fav is the guy who owns a pig farm and off's the pork'er at 3am to butcher it up for market. All this happens in your local neighborhoods.
> 
> 
> & this is why I hate the fukers.
> 
> They have zero respect for themselves or others... 
> (& that's not 1 or 2, it is the vast majority.)


Much of that is due to their way of life (i.e. close-quarters, no privacy, etc.).  

So my obvious question is if you "hate the fukers" why do you continue to live in Thailand?  

Unless you believe in re-incarnation, it is generally thought that you only have one live to live on this planet.  Living in a place where you "hate" the locals seems to me to be a waste of your remaining life.

No offense intended, just curious.

RickThai

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## Bettyboo

> So my obvious question is if you "hate the fukers" why do you continue to live in Thailand?





> As you know, I'm at my happiest when I'm complaining...


A trait I picked up from me father.  :Smile:

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## chitown

Many of us live here because we are married to a Thai. We enjoy certain aspects of Thailand such as the weather, the inexpensive travel, food, and health care. 

Let me see...what I pay for health insurance for the year in Thailand for myself and the family would cover the cost of 2 or 3 months  back home....maybe.  Meds and doctor's visits are cheap. What I pay for car insurance here for a year also equals 2 or 3 months of the cost of full coverage back home...except here it is first class with no deductible. 

Could I afford a maid, nanny and a gardener in the states? I had a part time maid back home, but she was not worth the $20 an hour we paid her. As for a nanny and a gardener? I liked to do my own lawn and garden and I would not trust most people to be a nanny to my kids back home. Back home I would have to pump my won gas and a massage costs $75 for 1 hour and here it is 300 baht for 2 hours. 

As far as hating the Thais? I do not hate them, but I think if the whole country was in an "I am Legend" setting where myself and Mrs. Chi were the only ones left, it would be paradise!!

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## Bettyboo

^ wot he said.
(but I do feel more than a tad of hate...)

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## Loy Toy

> it's much easier to move when you get neighbors from hell.





> Don't buy anthing here you cannot afford to lose.





> That not only goes for a house, car, or whatever the little lady wants





> Renting is the only way to go.





> & this is why I hate the fukers.


Blllllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh. Where is that puck smilie?

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## Bettyboo

^ You bloody glass half full folk...  :Smile:

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## Chairman Mao

Thais are retarded monkeys and will never be anything else.


Simply invest here at your peril.

Never invest anything that you will miss.


Thais are retarded monkeys and will never be anything else.

Thais are retarded monkeys and will never be anything else.

Thais are retarded monkeys and will never be anything else.


Sweet dreams. *tips hat*

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## Bettyboo

^ what he said.

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## chitown

If the Thais can't even handle the simple maintenance in a village - cutting grass and keeping the litter picked up, imagine how they maintain something complex - like a plane you board at Swampy Poom.  :Smile:

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## Loy Toy

> Thais are retarded monkeys and will never be anything else.


Let's have a business lunch and see who pays for the bananas hey Mao?  :Smile:

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## Looper

> You can have neighbors from hell in any country in the world if you think about it.


not really

If my neighbours make too much noise I ask them to be quiet.
If they don't be quiet I complain to the property manager/body corporate.
If they still don't be quiet I get the police/council round (and I don't offer them a bribe).
They always be quiet in the end.

Nice to live in a country with laws and stuff  :Smile: 

Maybe over here I am the neighbour from hell

 :ourrules:

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## chitown

^ Here, that sort of "silly" {sarcasm} behavior of following a chain of command could at best get your car keyed up and at worst get you bottled, stabbed, shot or dumped in a Klong with a large piece of concrete tied around your neck.

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## nigelandjan

Each to their own if you only ever want to rent then fair enuf .

 When I buy / build sorry quick rephrase my wife buy's/ builds a home here , yes true any of the above could happen ,, although a fair bit of research will be put in before hand , but more to the point my wife being a Thai is used to living the way they do and the home will be for her , her security , her future , its not about me ,, as she is a lot younger than me its about her , but it will make me feel good the last time I look into those loving brown eyes when I say goodbye . I will know I have done my best for her.

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## hazz

I think the problem is that there are two faces to freedom and 'rights' the right to do what you want and the right not have other peoples rights inflicted on you.

Its very obvious that the vast majority of people in thailand have bought into the former and are utterly unaware of the latter. I have never come across a country where the right to do what you want, when you want, how you want and bugger everyone else (unless they look like they might kill you) is so engrained. And thats the problem because its quite common for people to miscalculate the 'might kill you' and get themselves killed.

It is almost as if most people here go from childhood to adulthood without bothering with adolescence when much of the rest of the world learns about patience, that actions have consequences and empathy. I redone that this is core to must of the social problems thailand has and nothing will change until this part of thai culture changes. If the people who became germany can do it, I am sure thailand has a chance.

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## BobR

^ That also explains the childish, aggressive, selfish and downright stupid driving here, it has little to do with a lack the lack of driver's training and such training would do little to correct it.

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## ralphlsasser

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> Some of the things I have watched Thais do to a nice area is stunning. Take a nice townhouse area and open up noodle shops in their driveway, Build 20 foot walls where the side you see is sinter blocks and unfinished while their side is finished. I have watched them drop plumbing and set in pumps right by their neighbors window, Make their front yards a jungle and then are forced to park their cars in the street blocking up the road all the time. Steal power from neighbors and open up shops round the clock. My Fav is the guy who owns a pig farm and off's the pork'er at 3am to butcher it up for market. All this happens in your local neighborhoods.
> 
> 
> & this is why I hate the fukers.
> 
> They have zero respect for themselves or others... 
> (& that's not 1 or 2, it is the vast majority.)


I totally agree. You are spot on. I respect people that respect themselves, have morals, self pride, dignity, and cares about others. In 9 years living here, I have yet to find a Thai with ANY of these qualities including my wife. They don't mind living like a pauper in a garbage dump.

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## ralphlsasser

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by JPPR2
> ...


Not speaking for him, but to answer your question. We (myself included) have such an investment here, it's difficult to simply walk away from. It's better to stay and fight.

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## ralphlsasser

> ^ wot he said.
> (but I do feel more than a tad of hate...)


Me too. The longer I live here the worse it gets.

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## ralphlsasser

> ^ what he said.


Totally agree.

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## kmart

My neighbours are good people. Any noise issues (barking dog, loud party music) has always been solved politely, and not with any bad feeling at all. Am I missing something?

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## chitown

> My neighbours are good people. Any noise issues (barking dog, loud party music) has always been solved politely, and not with any bad feeling at all.





> Am I missing something?


We are. Can you psot your village name and also a map on how to find it so we can all move there?

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## Ceburat1

Sounds like a bunch of grumpy old men on here.

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## kmart

> Originally Posted by kmart
> 
> 
> My neighbours are good people. Any noise issues (barking dog, loud party music) has always been solved politely, and not with any bad feeling at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :smiley laughing:  Send me a PM and I'll tell you.

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## ralphlsasser

> My neighbours are good people. Any noise issues (barking dog, loud party music) has always been solved politely, and not with any bad feeling at all. Am I missing something?


You my friend are a blessed man.

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## chitown

> Sounds like a bunch of grumpy old men on here.


I resemble that remark!   ::chitown::

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## Chairman Mao

> Originally Posted by Chairman Mao
> 
> Thais are retarded monkeys and will never be anything else.
> 
> 
> Let's have a business lunch and see who pays for the bananas hey Mao?


No need for the business lunch, as I don't do business here.

You're welcome to stop by the house for lunch though. 


Bring the bananas if Noodles will be there.  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

> ..He said 'What can he do".


bird flu is coming to a farm near you


as for the rest, what a bunch of whingers

this is Thailand, if the locals are arseholes, it is you who chose to live here

accept that this is the third world undeveloped nation it is

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## Chairman Mao

^ and thus don't buy, rent.

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## Rural Surin

> _[sic]..._this is Thailand, if the locals are arseholes, it is you who chose to live here


Yet, it never sinks in.

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## nevets

> Each to their own if you only ever want to rent then fair enuf .
> 
>  When I buy / build sorry quick rephrase my wife buy's/ builds a home here , yes true any of the above could happen ,, although a fair bit of research will be put in before hand , but more to the point my wife being a Thai is used to living the way they do and the home will be for her , her security , her future , its not about me ,, as she is a lot younger than me its about her , but it will make me feel good the last time I look into those loving brown eyes when I say goodbye . I will know I have done my best for her.


Yours is the love story we all want.

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## nevets

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> ..He said 'What can he do".
> 
> 
> bird flu is coming to a farm near you
> 
> 
> as for the rest, what a bunch of whingers
> ...


Thats a good idea find your self a sick bird , and put over the fence.

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## ltnt

> & this is why I hate the fukers.


How goes the build for your GF's house?  Just asking. :mid:

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## chitown

Nope, it is a supposedly high class gym in the Silom area. I am not going to name it, as it is not the owners fault that they have members that are toddlers trapped in adult bodies.

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## Stumpy

> Most of the people complaining about living conditions do so because they cannot afford to buy. You can have neighbors from hell in any country in the world if you think about it. Forums tend to bring out all the bitchers and complainers. Those that made smart land/home purchases have no reason to be posting, hence the posters are all disenchanted renters. I am amazed with so much complaining why do so many continue to stay instead of packing it up and moving to a place they will have nothing to complain about? Not every foreigner in this country has a bad experience or multiple bad living experiences. If you are renting, you have nothing to complain about, because it isn't yours. If you are not aware that things types of things can spring up anywhere in Thailand, you are not very smart in the ways of Thailand at all.  Anywhere there are neighbors and open land is fair game. If you want want to play that game, move to Isaan and buy yourself a couple hundred 1,000 rai on all sides and live right in the middle.



Firstly I could buy a mansion here if I wanted too, money is not the issue, trusting your neighbors is. So you can stop with your nonsense about not being able to afford one. In fact when I first landed here I was going to buy then I decided I should rent to check out various areas and see. I *CHOOSE* not to buy for a host of reasons and my recent neighbor chicken farm venture deal is exactly why. As for moving out into BumfuckEgypt to buy a huge plot of land, be removed from civilization is retarded at best. I do not want to live isolated so I can say "There, taught them a lesson" 

I am not really complaining about living conditions here at all. I like living here, love the weather, the food and unlike most, I like the people. But what is discouraging is the lack of respect the great majority of Thais have for themselves, the neighborhoods and their neighbors in general. One should be able to buy and have a descent level of confidence that tomorrow you will not have a dog farm next door. That cannot happen here. There are no rules and moreso, no respect. 

You are dead wrong about the neighbors from hell in other countries. Sure there are a few but random at best. There are rules, ordinances and zoning mandates that control it. While I enjoy the lack of rules and laws here as it requires personal management of oneself, there is a lot to be said about some. Like a full disclosure on a house here...GFL with that. Or how long the land was leveled and settled before building on it...GFL with that. Try and get a cement sample and certification when they are building...GFL with that. The best one is "Are you in an area subjected to flooding"...GFL with that. Buying here comes with a HUGE risk and any person willing to do it either has a ton of disposable income or lacks basic common sense.

I watched a guy about 5 years ago in Rangsit build this interesting deal around his house. Never sure what it was until it rained. It channeled all the water from his house right into the neighbors....Sweet deal Eh?

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## bushwacker

[quote=ralphlsasser;
In 9 years living here, I have yet to find a Thai with ANY of these qualities including my wife. They don't mind living like a pauper in a garbage dump.[/quote]

With all due respect, I think you are living in the wrong places.  I have only lived here for 4 years and can easily name 9 Thai people with these qualities including my wife.  So although your observations are correct in the vast majority of cases, that brush of yours should not be painting everyone.   :Smile:

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## ltnt

I rented for two year while looking for a property to buy.  I looked over all aspects you mentioned.  I finally found a place that met my requirements, no settlement issues, no flooding as high on a nearby mountain, mostly Thai neighbors, working class and educated, centrally located to all needs and hobbies, cost was generally acceptable and builder agreeable to my requirements and changes.  6 years later there's some irritation, but overall its just fine here.  

Renting is certainly a way to weed out the sources of your problems as well as learn about life in Thailand before you decide to make it a life long change.  Keep renting if you cannot find what you want.  No problem.

I wanted my own plants, my own decor, my own sense of belonging, which is a personal thing.  I don't have to put up with wanting something in my house that is owned by someone else. My neighbors are not perfect but then neither am I.  Sadly, for you, your neighbors are chickens.55555!

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## ltnt

> I watched a guy about 5 years ago in Rangsit build this interesting deal around his house. Never sure what it was until it rained. It channeled all the water from his house right into the neighbors....Sweet deal Eh? JPPR2 is online now Add to JPPR2's Reputation Report Post   	 Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati


Experience is free, anywhere else you'd have to pay for that education.  Once you've seen it all, smirk, then you know what you don't want and the pitfalls.  Keep renting you'll keep moving on and on and on.....Thailand is Thailand, good and bad just like where you come from.  It is what it is...

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## Marmite the Dog

> Yes they are adult men!


I thought you said they were Thai males?

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## Seekingasylum

The Thai live by face. In its crudest sense, and the one dearest to their hearts, it is measured by how much the perceived status gaining acquisition costs. Once the house is bought in the moo baan that's pretty well much it. Why would you spend money on aesthetics, particularly when it will not alter the value of the property, as far as they are concerned. 
Most Thai decor and furnishings display a hideous lack of taste and reflects their innate primitivism. Full of natural grace and, on occasion, charm they may be but they have no idea when it comes to fashion in relation to their homes. I once thought colour blindness was endemic but soon realised they were just demonstrating their ignorance and a vulgarity that stemmed from it - how many times have you seen those ghastly pale blue floor tiles contrasting with the prink curtains and lime green painted walls furnished in mahogany coloured wardrobes not seen since the 50s ( or possibly in rural France )?

Apropos whether to rent or buy, I think in the current financial climate it makes more sense to buy and given the assumption relocation to LoS is permanent and the fact exchange and interest rates are not likely to alter radically in the medium term I don't see that view changing.

Certainly, buying land in a favoured position and building mon repos is very much a punt and an act of faith which I think is probably grossly misplaced given the propensity the Thai have for not giving a flying fuck for anyone except themselves. Similarly, a moo baan is a risky option unless it is a falang compound in some island ghetto or of sufficient worth to exclude any Thai except the most moneyed.

All said and done, and taking into account the perennial question of securing oneself from chance attack by the myriad local chickenheaded thugs, I think buying a condo in a premium development is the way to go.

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## Loy Toy

Well, if I had decided to only rent here, and it would be a house with a reasonable garden somewhere near Bangkok it would of cost me over 17,000,000 Baht in fees not to mention the fact I couldn't do what I wanted with the house.

And that is for an average house at a negotiated price.

A big net loss as far as I am concerned.

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## nevets

Condo,s i am told are very noisey and expensive but at least its yours .

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## good2bhappy

the gent 
interesting post
but one man's meat is another man's poison

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## Stumpy

> I rented for two year while looking for a property to buy.  I looked over all aspects you mentioned.  I finally found a place that met my requirements, no settlement issues, no flooding as high on a nearby mountain, mostly Thai neighbors, working class and educated, centrally located to all needs and hobbies, cost was generally acceptable and builder agreeable to my requirements and changes.  6 years later there's some irritation, but overall its just fine here.  
> 
> Renting is certainly a way to weed out the sources of your problems as well as learn about life in Thailand before you decide to make it a life long change.  Keep renting if you cannot find what you want.  No problem.
> 
> I wanted my own plants, my own decor, my own sense of belonging, which is a personal thing.  I don't have to put up with wanting something in my house that is owned by someone else. My neighbors are not perfect but then neither am I.  Sadly, for you, your neighbors are chickens.55555!


I agree, I actually had a moment when I thought I might drop a few baht on this place and buy it. I figured I would go through with the 1 year rental agreement and see how the house did during rainy season and such. I definitely love the location, beach within a few hundred yards, good breeze everyday, nice swimming pool, 2 hours from BKK for those special needs. Primarily Thai neighbors who have been nice in general, kids playing on street, etc. 

Its a single level home on an elevated plot which was perfect as I do not want a 2 story home because I have seen how they build them and if there is even a moderate earthquake here a great portion will fall like a house of cards. So all in all it looked promising.....then BAM...So it goes. Sadly the lot is backed up against a few lots that are undeveloped and this could present a huge unknown later as well. The Chicken farmer will definitely shunt any further development here.  :Smile:

----------


## nigelandjan

> Renting is certainly a way to weed out the sources of your problems as well as learn about life in Thailand before you decide to make it a life long change. Keep renting if you cannot find what you want. No problem.


   Good sound advice mate and probably one I shall be going along with , infact my wife insists herself we go this route.



> I wanted my own plants, my own decor, my own sense of belonging, which is a personal thing. I don't have to put up with wanting something in my house that is owned by someone else. My neighbors are not perfect but then neither am I. Sadly, for you, your neighbors are chickens.55555!


       Again same same for me mate , I very much like to do what I want with my house and garden I like to put some roots down as I say each to their own . 
     Whilst here in the UK I have always owned my own property except during the period of my divorce ( about 3 years ) when I rented on a 1 year renewable tenancy  in an annexe property I never felt so insecure in all my life with my landlady being a dyke with attitude always fighting with her various g/fs although at times very entertaining it was at the same time very unsettling. The moment we bought our next property moved in and closed the door it was an amazing feeling of contentment.

----------


## sabai sabai

> 1 year rental agreement


How about the deposit ? 

Will the Landlord be giving you it all back ?

----------


## nigelandjan

> Will the Landlord be giving you it all back ?


     Doubt it the place stinks of chicken shit now

----------


## Cujo

> Now mind you, these are the elites, the rich of Thailand. They drive BMW's, Mercs and one has a Lotus. They supposedly are all rich and travel about the globe. I have said to my wife and other Thais, that none of that matters if you have zero common sense and even less manners. They are closet savages at best.


The same in China.
The rich arrogant twerps are the worst most mannerless ignorant assholes of the lot.

----------


## larvidchr

I suppose it is all up to individual preferences and temperament, many of us are conditioned from home with the system of maximizing your savings in owning property rather than rent, my first thoughts and plans also when I initially came to LOS from Spain with my farang Wife and Son.

After our parting and divorce costing me half the Kingdom pr. usual western standarts  :Smile:  and quite OK with me by the way.
I was drifting around a bit seeing first hand what happened to many of the farang males in the neighborhood, the percentage of scammed blokes (an even mix of decent guys and plain idiots) loosing homes, cars, savings and last but not least dreams, was just shockingly high.

That said I know farangs and friends who have settled just fine with family and property and are in a very good safe and happy place with their wonderful and very loyal Thai spouses.

For me I have always been for being able to move at a moments notice anyway, and since free of economic family obligations (by costly negotiated settlement  :Wink:  ) I have decided to keep that avenue open at all times in the future where-ever I stay, if a girlfriend wants to buy property fine with me I will happily finance it to the tune of what I usually pay in rent every month..... but no more, if the love is lost or if she along the way decides to kick me out, becomes impossible to be with, or whatever happens in country (civil unrest, changing visa reg. etc.)  I can leave in a heartbeat with acceptable losses and with no obligations and my income wholly intact to settle down elsewhere.

But that's just me -

Each to their own and with no one solution being the only right one.

 :Smile:

----------


## Loy Toy

> if a girlfriend wants to buy property fine with me I will happily finance it to the tune of what I usually pay in rent every month


That's the solution in a heartbeat and especially if you love and respect the girl.

I have always been against dead money contracts so why not make your dollars work for you.

----------


## Cujo

Can't you throw some poisoned grain in the chicken coop then yell bird flu?

----------


## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> & this is why I hate the fukers.
> 
> 
> How goes the build for your GF's house? Just asking.


Delayed; she used it as a sneaky ploy to get hitched because I was gonna get a bank loan (totally in my name), then we changed our minds to just paying for it from money earned; now I have to earn the money... The project should restart later this year - maybe completed by the end of the year.

As far as owning that house: I won't - it's all hers. Also, to be fair, the missus' father is very decent, and in 10 years neither himself not any other member of the family has/have ever asked for money. They have offered me money at times (in the form of getting a bank loan on their land) which I haven't accepted.

The dad has 10 rai or so with other family members next door/around, and they don't drink, don't mix with dodgy folk, know the village headman well, etc; they are easy and decent folk to live around - not that I will be living around them...  :Smile: 

I think I might build the house then go off to HK or somewhere for 3-4 years; work, build up some capital, improve my job security/position. I can't wait...

----------


## Bettyboo

> Well, if I had decided to only rent here, and it would be a house with a reasonable garden somewhere near Bangkok it would of cost me over 17,000,000 Baht in fees not to mention the fact I couldn't do what I wanted with the house.


I don't see how that works? I have a big 4 bedroom house on a double plot with off road parking for 3 cars and a large garden, terraces at the front and back, BBQ area, etc, very big open plan lounge, utility rooms and inbuilt cupboards a plenty, lovely wooden floors throughout... 8,000 baht per month. It's easy to get into Bkk (30 minutes to an hour to Silom or Siam or Sanam Luang) and Hua Hin 1:30 hours.

Very very cheap to rent. The place opposite me (no garden, but similar 4 bed spec) is 7,000 per month - if you look on the older, well built, moo bahns, that are not close to a BTS or MRT (yes you need a car or to be happy on buses) then it is very easy to find great houses under 10,000 baht per month.

----------


## Loy Toy

> I don't see how that works?


I like to live close to the company and 15 minutes from everything including the motorways, International schools and BTS.

60K a month all up is quite chap for a fully furnished house in the inner Bangkok area.

----------


## Bangyai

> Each to their own if you only ever want to rent then fair enuf .
> 
> When I buy / build sorry quick rephrase my wife buy's/ builds a home here , yes true any of the above could happen ,, although a fair bit of research will be put in before hand , but more to the point my wife being a Thai is used to living the way they do and the home will be for her , her security , her future , its not about me ,, as she is a lot younger than me its about her , but it will make me feel good the last time I look into those loving brown eyes when I say goodbye . I will know I have done my best for her.


I agree mate. I was spending 100,000 baht a year on rent anyway. At least if I buy the farm ( die that is, not actually buy her a farm as well ) she won't be reduced to penury. So far we've lived in purchased houses for 7 years. Another 5 and I'll break even  :Smile:

----------


## taxexile

> Similarly, a moo baan is a risky option unless it is a falang compound in some island ghetto or of sufficient worth to exclude any Thai except the most moneyed.


most falang populated moo baans are run and managed by falang developers and/or their avaricious wives, at least in hua hin it is like that, and sooner ot later that developer is going to stop throwing money into the upkeep of the project, maybe he has other projects to finance, maybe some owners have stopped paying maintenance charges and are in dispute with the landowners. 

legally the owners cannot do anything without the permission of the developer.

i know of one ongoing dispute in hua hin where the developer has stopped any upkeep of common parts, the owners took it upon themselves to mow common lawns and trim hedges and replace broken lighting. the developer took out a court injunction against them, they dont have a leg to stand on, all because one owner refuses to pay his share of the maintenance.

either way, living in one of the many execrable falang ghettos that pollute this country is no guarantee of a peaceful life.  when the husband disappears for his stint offshore, the wives family may move in with predictable consequences, the pavements and roads become run down, garbage is not collected , the guards collude with thieves to enter empty properties, the water supply is unreliable and the management lose interest. you live in a walled off enclave remote from the reality of thailand, that reality however is not all that bad once you have thrown away your colonial preconceptions of how you think thais ought to live their lives.

nor could i contemplate living out in the sticks surrounded by the toothless and the lame, the differences between their culture and mine are just too far to bridge. short visits will suffice. buy some fruit, walk the hills, admire their daughters, then jump in the truck and head home.

its far better to live in a pre owned house in a thai neighborhood in a decent part of the town. those moving in to villages with their wives are at the mercy of their in laws as to how much peace you will get, but from what i have seen of village life with its open doors, anarchic mayhem and lack of privacy its definitely not for me.

all thai towns have decent mature residential areas, with well built and characterful houses, houses that are at peace with the environment they sit in, in small compounds with fruit trees, grass and space, and relatively clean surroundings, with regular trash collections, a sense of community and decent neighbors. such houses can be bought for a fraction of the cost of the ghetto shite, and the quality of life will be better, as will security of tenure. no shortage of delightful houses like this around hua hin and cha-am for rent, and i'm sure its the same in other towns.

you dont need wealthy thai neighbours to guarantee a decent neighborhood, you just need decent people, and thailand is not short of decent people. they do tend to keep a lower profile though and consequently are far less visible than those less decent.

but i could never contemplate living in a falang ghetto, to me thats a fate worse than death, its a malignant mutation of western suburbia, all those twee houses, half of them empty, slowly turning into neglected slums with a strange mix of inhabitants from different cultures and backgrounds. 

attempts at multiculturalism involving asians is failing miserably in the west, but multiculturalism involving westerners transplanted to asia is an even worse recipe for disaster. some of the characters living in those ghettos, jesus, and their screeching wives !!

i live in a condo, on the beach, jointly owned with my wife. probably 3% falang ownership here, and its mostly quiet, 10% occupancy during the week but fills up at weekends and holidays. 

any problems with plumbing, electricity, water etc. and the on site chang is up within 5 minutes to sort it out. no cost. free wi fi, cable tv, pool, gym, sauna and decent gardens and beach too. no worries with security either, just lock up and go off for a few weeks.

i do sometimes miss having some outside space to potter about in, to plant a garden of my choosing, but thats the compromise ive had to make for having the security that comes with owning a condo, in a thankfully well managed block.

if we wanted to sell, we would certainly get our money back, probably even make a 30% profit, but life is so easy and trouble free here, i think we're here for the duration.

for those determined to buy, and to buy in their own name, then a condo is the only way.

----------


## peterpan

My Place in Udon similar, double story & 4 bedroom, garden front and back, plenty of parking.
7500 / Month been here for 5 yrs and could stay for as long again if wished, never see the land lord, shes a  fat bitch that lives in Holland.

----------


## Bettyboo

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> I don't see how that works?
> 
> 
> I like to live close to the company and 15 minutes from everything including the motorways, International schools and BTS.
> 
> 60K a month all up is quite chap for a fully furnished house in the inner Bangkok area.


Yes and no.

I live close to companies, 20 minutes from the BTS, 3 minute from the expressway (15 minutes into Silom if i take that route), international schools, supermarkets, central, etc.

8,000 baht.

You can pay several hundred thousand baht in places like Thonglor, if you want to. I used to live in Thonglor, I actually find my current position far nicer, equally as convenient for the vast majority of situations, easier to get to work and a better quality of living.  :Smile:

----------


## FailSafe

I will never rent in Thailand- I've always managed to find decent spots to build houses (or buy ones that weren't in a position to be fucked up by neighbors)- I've lived in them for a few years, then sold them at a profit and moved on and up- not every real estate deal ends in disaster in LOS, and you can make some pretty good money if you do your research and pick the right place.

I would have thrown away millions of baht over the years in rent and lost equity (like Loy Toy, I enjoy living in a nice house near civilization) had I done otherwise.

----------


## Loy Toy

> I live close to companies, 20 minutes from the BTS, 3 minute from the expressway (15 minutes into Silom if i take that route), international schools, supermarkets, central, etc.
> 
> 8,000 baht.


I would say you are quite lucky !. 8k a month is very cheap and 2. You like living there.

I am only pointing out that rent is in essence dead money and once I found the right lady and started a family purchasing a house was my only consideration.

I also value my time and to live close to the factory, yes the location is considered a very expensive residential area, would be my only option.

----------


## Dan

> nor could i contemplate living out in the sticks surrounded by the toothless and the lame, the differences between their culture and mine are just too far to bridge.


That's what makes it so interesting. 



> i could never contemplate living in a falang ghetto, to me thats a fate worse than death


I agree but I'd extend that to any modern housing development, foreign or Thai. I'd rather live on the streets than in some hideous, soulless suburban gated hell. God only knows what the attraction of those places is.

----------


## FailSafe

> I wondered when you would turn up!


LOS ain't a bed of roses, but _somebody_ has to put a bit of a positive spin on things. :Wink:

----------


## larvidchr

^^^^^ You are of-cause right LT, and for quite a few it works out just fine, but the fact in TH is that all is not lucky/equally smart, and frighteningly many loose all that preciously saved equity in one go to some skank, some of who having counted themselves lucky for 10 years or more thinking they where safe and sound.

Best advise is do what you think is right and makes you feel good but never with more than you can afford to loose or is prepared to walk away from IMHO.

 :Smile:

----------


## Seekingasylum

> nor could i contemplate living out in the sticks surrounded by the toothless and the lame.


Yes, I never liked Hua Hin either Tax.

----------


## DrAndy

where I am, all my neighbours are Thai

I see them out front of their houses sweeping the road - they like to keep it all clean

they even swept in front of our house when we were away

but they are nice people, educated and have some pride in their properties

----------


## Latindancer

I think DrAndy is right......education or lack thereof is in fact the crux of the matter.

----------


## Ceburat1

I also agree with Dr. Andy - it's all about education.  I live in a Moo Baan and I see it all day every day.  Will Thailand ever change - sad, but - not in our lifetime.

----------


## Dan

> education or lack thereof is in fact the crux of the matter.


Crux of what matter? In the village I'm building our house in, many of the older lot have only the absolute bare minimum of education (in the sense of formal schooling, though they've a lot of education in other ways) and are functionally - or completely - illiterate but that doesn't prevent them being nice guys who take pride in their homes and in the village.

----------


## Bettyboo

^ I'd agree with Dan from the opposite perspective. 

Where I live is full of rich, internationally educated 'professionals', many of whom act like complete pigs; arrogance in the extreme, causing mess and filth all around without a concern in the world because they have a certain 'status'...

----------


## ltnt

> Originally Posted by ltnt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> ...


Very good.  Sounds like a work in progress.  Plans change and we're not always on the same page it seems.

Sorry had to stop for a few minutes.  Noises from below.  My wife just killed another snake along with help from the neighbor and his son.  So far wife three snakes, two rats and dozens of fish.  Life here ain't to bad. :Smile:   That is, if you're not a snake or rat.

----------


## ltnt

> where I am, all my neighbours are Thai
> 
> I see them out front of their houses sweeping the road - they like to keep it all clean
> 
> they even swept in front of our house when we were away
> 
> but they are nice people, educated and have some pride in their properties


Northern Thai's.

----------


## ltnt

> Originally Posted by ltnt
> 
> 
> I rented for two year while looking for a property to buy.  I looked over all aspects you mentioned.  I finally found a place that met my requirements, no settlement issues, no flooding as high on a nearby mountain, mostly Thai neighbors, working class and educated, centrally located to all needs and hobbies, cost was generally acceptable and builder agreeable to my requirements and changes.  6 years later there's some irritation, but overall its just fine here.  
> 
> Renting is certainly a way to weed out the sources of your problems as well as learn about life in Thailand before you decide to make it a life long change.  Keep renting if you cannot find what you want.  No problem.
> 
> I wanted my own plants, my own decor, my own sense of belonging, which is a personal thing.  I don't have to put up with wanting something in my house that is owned by someone else. My neighbors are not perfect but then neither am I.  Sadly, for you, your neighbors are chickens.55555!
> 
> ...


Suggest you do the math?  Long term plan?  10 years remainder of your life 20 years +?  That's a lot of cash payed out with really nothing in return.  

Inflation will catch up with most renter's and finally at the end one goes into a negative cash flow when work ceases, currency devalues and hopeless governments collapse.  I remember buying pad Thai for 10 baht on the soi, no its over 35.  Fresh fruit is now 20 baht off the soi and was 5 baht before.

Everything is going up weather you're here or in Europe/America.  It never goes down in case you haven't noticed.

The chicken farm I believe is a temporary set back and can in due time resolve itself.  The owner of your place is already networking with other's there to see if some resolution can be found.  No pun intended, but Thai's are not chicken shit when their cash cow is interrupted.

Hua Hin and Cha Am are pretty sleazy locations as other's posted here have said.  I think this is just "Another Roadside Attraction."  You're flexible and have some smarts and money.  Why not move south to Prachup Khiri Khan?  If you miss the bright lights of Bangkok just catch the daily trains running through PKK and you have it made.  Nice beaches, nice community, educated, quiet, clean and overall user friendly.

If you want bars and bar girls then stay where you are, but it ain't going to get any better.  It ain't going to get any less developed either.

Song Kran is on the way and the Bangkokians will soon arrive in hoards. :rofl:

----------


## ltnt

> ^ I'd agree with Dan from the opposite perspective. 
> 
> Where I live is full of rich, internationally educated 'professionals', many of whom act like complete pigs; arrogance in the extreme, causing mess and filth all around without a concern in the world because they have a certain 'status'...


They were the same in their home countries and Thailand didn't make them that way.  Oh, their home country is Thailand?  Oops! :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Bettyboo

^ you do get lots of foreign scumbags here, Thailand attracts them (look at me for example...), but the Thais are the ones that ruin the place.

----------


## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> 1 year rental agreement
> 
> 
> How about the deposit ? 
> 
> Will the Landlord be giving you it all back ?


Actually there was no deposit oddly enough. I rented in Oct, worked a sweet deal for 1 year and paid it all up front. I will stay here until Oct. I can live with it no problem, I just will not buy.

However in the event they do sell it before Oct, we did agree that they would refund any monies based on the 1 year agreement. The owners are very cool people.

----------


## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by Bettyboo
> 
> I live close to companies, 20 minutes from the BTS, 3 minute from the expressway (15 minutes into Silom if i take that route), international schools, supermarkets, central, etc.
> 
> 8,000 baht.
> 
> 
> I would say you are quite lucky !. 8k a month is very cheap and 2. You like living there.
> 
> ...


I think no one situation fits all clearly. I think if you are sunk in the ground here, have family, and all that fun stuff  :Smile:  Then buying might be the way to go. I am older, wiser been there done that with family stuff and not planning on revisiting it again. 

My rent here is 8900 a month so I am not pissing millions of baht away on anything. 90ishk Baht a year to live is peanuts when you figure more guys are probably dumping that into bar girls and crappy beer in a few months.

On the reality side, I am not fully convinced that this is the place I want to live so buying is silly. I like knowing if I want to bail out I pack my suitcases, give the Honda Wave away and fly out of here.

----------


## nigelandjan

> nor could i contemplate living out in the sticks surrounded by the toothless and the lame,


  I take it you don't wanna be my neighbour then ??

----------


## Bettyboo

^ toothless or lame, Nige?

----------


## ltnt

Who does?

----------


## ltnt

Toothless huh?  Has its appeal....

----------


## ltnt

> On the reality side, I am not fully convinced that this is the place I want to live so buying is silly. I like knowing if I want to bail out I pack my suitcases, give the Honda Wave away and fly out of here. JPPR2 is online now Add to JPPR2's Reputation Report Post   	 Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati


The only lock on anyone is his self.  To walk or not walk?  No problem, easy.

----------


## taxexile

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> 
> where I am, all my neighbours are Thai
> 
> I see them out front of their houses sweeping the road - they like to keep it all clean
> 
> they even swept in front of our house when we were away
> 
> ...


or muslims.

there are some muslim moo baans west of hua hin and cha am, the difference between the muslim villages and the thai ones is remarkable, and they may only be a few kilometers apart.

muslim village. tidy, no litter or trash. houses well kept, kids well behaved, no stray dogs roaming around. motorcycles are driven quietly, with road sense, as are the cars and trucks, and the people are polite. the environment is looked after too. the farms are tidy and the animals well treated.

thai village. messy, dirty, litter everywhere. dogs roaming and shitting. noisy motorcycles, badly driven, people not as welcoming or polite.etc.etc. houses untidy and poorly maintained in general.

i frequently walk through these moo baans and the peacefulness that descends when entering a muslim area is quite noticeable.

----------


## jizzybloke

> toothless or lame, Nige?


maybe both?  :Smile:

----------


## nigelandjan

> maybe both?


  You know don't ya Jizz ,, 

  Tip for any old bastards on here ,, that herbal crap don't work  :Sad:

----------


## Smug Farang Bore

After donating castles smug to my x. I now rent an apartment and must admit that I never see or hear the neighbours. Most being ERR working girls and me not going home till six in the morning. Guess we are all asleep at the same time.






Some serious eye candy in the lift at 4 am/pm

----------


## Bangyai

> I also agree with Dr. Andy - it's all about education. I live in a Moo Baan and I see it all day every day. Will Thailand ever change - sad, but - not in our lifetime.


Stop agreeing with Dr Andy Pa....lease. It'll go completely to his head and he'll be insufferable for days.

I used to live in the boonies and opposite our house was a very humble abode.
They had the money for a corrugated roof but the walls were made of bamboo latice threaded with large dried leaves of some sort. However, it was well proportioned and esthetically easy on the eye as all the component parts were neatly squared off. The front yard, of trodden red earth , was well swept and there was not one iota of rubbish anywhere on their small plot. The two kids were shoeless but as well turned out and polite as they could be.

The couple who lived in this house were literate but that was it. No other qualifications. But they loved each other and were very house proud.

I can find no explanation for this strange exception to the slovenly norm but it does illustrate that even without an education you can have self esteem.
Personaly, I think they must have been Librans.

----------


## Seekingasylum

> Originally Posted by ltnt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by DrAndy
> ...


That they are Muslims is perhaps less significant than the fact that they are a God fearing sect living their lives based on a canon which prescribes humility, thrift, temperance and constancy whereas the Thai Buddhists are a savage, superstitious lot living their lives as if they'll get a second chance and when their luck might be in. Half their monkhood are nothing more than shysters leaching off the people, offering nothing more than a totemic focus to win next week's lottery. 

Makes all the difference. One lot are civilised human beings, the other, a wayward bunch of shiftless chisellers looking for an easy ride.

----------


## RickThai

Lots of interesting comments.  Some of them remind me of things I have thought/said when living in other countries.

Italy - Italians would have beautiful, well-maintained villas (I lived in Pinetemare, a resort town), yet thow their bags of trash over the wall, where it would blow all over the beach.

I once saw an Italian whitewash the wall surrounding his villa.  He did a pretty good job, but when he finished, he dumped the remainder of the whitewash on the sidewalk in front of his villa!

Living in Taiwan, I once saw an attractive, well-dressed woman who appeared to be in her 30s.  As I was "checking her out" (I was about 19 at the time), she stopped, slid her panties down from under her skirt, and took a piss right there on the sidewalk.  This was in the middle of the day, on a busy street in a suburb of Taipei!

In Saudi Arabia, after a rain, I've seen adults park their Mercedes and drink standing water directly from the ground (camel shet and all).

So now, I don't judge locals by my standards.  As long as they aren't directly harming myself or some other innocent person, I just accept it as "they are different from me".

Still, everyone has a right to complain.

Cheers,

RickThai

----------


## DJ Pat

Some of you must have had your places chosen by your Thai wives, most probably in a euphoric haze and rose tinted glasses after she opened her legs for you. She could do no wrong, could she? 

Little did you know she knows fuck all.....

Always ask a professional well-travelled male Thai friend in these matters.

----------


## ralphlsasser

> Sounds like a bunch of grumpy old men on here.


Obviously you live in a much more peaceful place than some of us.

----------


## sabang

I lived in an upmarket, pristine and pretty 'western style estate' for a few years- and ultimately found it sterile and boring. So now I rent it out for a pretty penny. I'm certainly not sad I bought though- it is a nice cash cow, in a country where domestic interest rates are crap in comparison to rental yields.

Living in a normal moo ban is more interesting for this farang, but you've got to put up with the noise- be it weddings, funerals, village or Buddhist celebrations, there is something regularly happening. Not for everybody, certainly not a lot of westerners with their 'my home is my castle' type philosophy, and any outside noise is considered an intrusion.

I now live 3 km outside a village, in a tiny family hamlet of three houses. Suits me fine, best of both worlds really- but it is not for everybody. Our doors are always open, and people come and go. It seems to me many farang's resent that, preferring to seclude themselves in their little 'castle' behind Villa walls, visitors by appointment only.

Arguments that 'it's not like the west' are certainly true, I mean it's Thailand innit. Personally, I wouldn't live here if I just found myself lamenting that it's not more like the country I left behind. But if you do want to live here, and insulate yourself from the grubby Thai world outside in upmarket villa type seclusion, you will need a western type budget to successfully do so. Otherwise lap up the differences, which will include the odd irritations.

----------


## Boon Mee

> Always ask a professional well-travelled male Thai friend in these matters.


Yourself for example?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

For me, the best arrangement (for the time being anyway) is 5 rai in the countryside and an apt. in Bangkok.

----------


## Rural Surin

> I lived in an upmarket, pristine and pretty 'western style estate' for a few years- and ultimately found it sterile and boring. So now I rent it out for a pretty penny. I'm certainly not sad I bought though- it is a nice cash cow, in a country where domestic interest rates are crap in comparison to rental yields.
> 
> Living in a normal moo ban is more interesting for this farang, but you've got to put up with the noise- be it weddings, funerals, village or Buddhist celebrations, there is something regularly happening. Not for everybody, certainly not a lot of westerners with their 'my home is my castle' type philosophy, and any outside noise is considered an intrusion.
> 
> I now live 3 km outside a village, in a tiny family hamlet of three houses. Suits me fine, best of both worlds really- but it is not for everybody. Our doors are always open, and people come and go. It seems to me many farang's resent that, preferring to seclude themselves in their little 'castle' behind Villa walls, visitors by appointment only.
> 
> Arguments that 'it's not like the west' are certainly true, I mean it's Thailand innit. Personally, I wouldn't live here if I just found myself lamenting that it's not more like the country I left behind. But if you do want to live here, and insulate yourself from the grubby Thai world outside in upmarket villa type seclusion, you will need a western type budget to successfully do so. Otherwise lap up the differences, which will include the odd irritations.


Too sound.

----------


## OhOh

> I lived in an upmarket, pristine and pretty 'western style estate' for a few years- and ultimately found it sterile and boring. So now I rent it out for a pretty penny. I'm certainly not sad I bought though- it is a nice cash cow, in a country where domestic interest rates are crap in comparison to rental yields.
> 
> Living in a normal moo ban is more interesting for this farang, but you've got to put up with the noise- be it weddings, funerals, village or Buddhist celebrations, there is something regularly happening. Not for everybody, certainly not a lot of westerners with their 'my home is my castle' type philosophy, and any outside noise is considered an intrusion.
> 
> I now live 3 km outside a village, in a tiny family hamlet of three houses. Suits me fine, best of both worlds really- but it is not for everybody. Our doors are always open, and people come and go. It seems to me many farang's resent that, preferring to seclude themselves in their little 'castle' behind Villa walls, visitors by appointment only.
> 
> Arguments that 'it's not like the west' are certainly true, I mean it's Thailand innit. Personally, I wouldn't live here if I just found myself lamenting that it's not more like the country I left behind. But if you do want to live here, and insulate yourself from the grubby Thai world outside in upmarket villa type seclusion, you will need a western type budget to successfully do so. Otherwise lap up the differences, which will include the odd irritations.


 :tumbs:

----------


## Stumpy

> Arguments that 'it's not like the west' are certainly true, I mean it's Thailand innit. Personally, I wouldn't live here if I just found myself lamenting that it's not more like the country I left behind. But if you do want to live here, and insulate yourself from the grubby Thai world outside in upmarket villa type seclusion, you will need a western type budget to successfully do so. Otherwise lap up the differences, which will include the odd irritations.


Well stated.

This is why I rent. It affords me the options to move away from something not to my liking. I do not want this to be like the US. Like you said its why I left. I am very happy here sans missing a few good friends and a noteworthy wheat beer

----------


## hazz

> I also agree with Dr. Andy - it's all about education. I live in a Moo Baan and I see it all day every day. Will Thailand ever change - sad, but - not in our lifetime.





> Crux of what matter? In the village I'm building our house in, many of the older lot have only the absolute bare minimum of education (in the sense of formal schooling, though they've a lot of education in other ways) and are functionally - or completely - illiterate but that doesn't prevent them being nice guys who take pride in their homes and in the village.





> Where I live is full of rich, internationally educated 'professionals', many of whom act like complete pigs; arrogance in the extreme, causing mess and filth all around without a concern in the world because they have a certain 'status'...


Creating a pleasant living environment in a village or city requires that people simply give some importance to how other people feel about their actions and a caring about a reputation that is derived from how other people view your actions. 

Its a result of the social conditioning you learn during childhood and adolescence form the people around you. Its not directly a result of religion or education, these are simply contributory factors.

As for the observation that the filthy rich are no better than the worst of tuk tuk drivers, is not that suprising really. These people have little investment in society, the rich have so much money they are fully insulated from what ever happens, and well the people at the bottom have nothing to loose. So what do they gain from giving a shit about anything.

----------


## Bettyboo

> which will include the odd irritations.


Yes, some of them are very odd indeed... It's not like home, bloody Thai bastads ruin the place...  :Sad: 




> Too sound.


Please romove your tongue from that Australian's anus. Thank you.  :Smile: 

I hate the fukers (not you two, although...  :Smile: ).

----------


## RickThai

> I lived in an upmarket, pristine and pretty 'western style estate' for a few years- and ultimately found it sterile and boring. So now I rent it out for a pretty penny. I'm certainly not sad I bought though- it is a nice cash cow, in a country where domestic interest rates are crap in comparison to rental yields.
> 
> Living in a normal moo ban is more interesting for this farang, but you've got to put up with the noise- be it weddings, funerals, village or Buddhist celebrations, there is something regularly happening. Not for everybody, certainly not a lot of westerners with their 'my home is my castle' type philosophy, and any outside noise is considered an intrusion.
> 
> I now live 3 km outside a village, in a tiny family hamlet of three houses. Suits me fine, best of both worlds really- but it is not for everybody. Our doors are always open, and people come and go. It seems to me many farang's resent that, preferring to seclude themselves in their little 'castle' behind Villa walls, visitors by appointment only.
> 
> Arguments that 'it's not like the west' are certainly true, I mean it's Thailand innit. Personally, I wouldn't live here if I just found myself lamenting that it's not more like the country I left behind. But if you do want to live here, and insulate yourself from the grubby Thai world outside in upmarket villa type seclusion, you will need a western type budget to successfully do so. Otherwise lap up the differences, which will include the odd irritations.


Now this is a man who has figured it out!

RickThai

----------


## hazz

I've never been big on these gated communities that urban thailand, and to a lesser degree the US, are into; its more of a political thing than a cultural thing. it just doesn't seem right to give people of allowing their society to degenerate to the point their feel the need to do something about it and the option of simply avoiding it by simply hiding behind a big fence; rather than actually seeking to 'unfuck' their own society.

----------


## kmart

> I've never been big on these gated communities that urban thailand, and to a lesser degree the US, are into; its more of a political thing than a cultural thing. it just doesn't seem right to give people of allowing their society to degenerate to the point their feel the need to do something about it and the option of simply avoiding it by simply hiding behind a big fence; rather than actually seeking to 'unfuck' their own society.


In Thailand, the walled "moo baan" can be the only thing between you and some person installing a brand new chicken farm (OP), pig farm, motorcy repair shop, karaoke lounge, glue factory, brothel, etc. right next door to you.

----------


## hazz

^Only if you live in the middle away from the wall :Smile: 

I agree with you, but walled hideouts are not a helpful answer to the problem

----------


## Rural Surin

> Originally Posted by hazz
> 
> 
> I've never been big on these gated communities that urban thailand, and to a lesser degree the US, are into; its more of a political thing than a cultural thing. it just doesn't seem right to give people of allowing their society to degenerate to the point their feel the need to do something about it and the option of simply avoiding it by simply hiding behind a big fence; rather than actually seeking to 'unfuck' their own society.
> 
> 
> In Thailand, the walled "moo baan" can be the only thing between you and some person installing a brand new chicken farm (OP), pig farm, motorcy repair shop, karaoke lounge, glue factory, brothel, etc. right next door to you.


Isn't independence and freedom lovely though?

----------


## koman

> Originally Posted by hazz
> 
> 
> I've never been big on these gated communities that urban thailand, and to a lesser degree the US, are into; its more of a political thing than a cultural thing. it just doesn't seem right to give people of allowing their society to degenerate to the point their feel the need to do something about it and the option of simply avoiding it by simply hiding behind a big fence; rather than actually seeking to 'unfuck' their own society.
> 
> 
> In Thailand, the walled "moo baan" can be the only thing between you and some person installing a brand new chicken farm (OP), pig farm, motorcy repair shop, karaoke lounge, glue factory, brothel, etc. right next door to you.


Exactly, and that happens quite frequently. There was a farange who build a huge house not to far from me when I lived in Huahin. He was back in EU during most of the construction period, and when he arrived to take possession of his new ten million baht palace imagine his feelings when a fucking gigantic market had been set up right outside his wall. Blaring music all evening, seven days a week till about 11pm

I've lived in a village for a while. At first it was a real novelty, but after each passing month the fun just goes out of it with all the noise, lack of privacy and generally crap living conditions. At least it did for me.

Later on I rented a couple of fairly decent places that were not in a "protected" area and although that was a big improvement over the village, it was still not to my liking after a while. Still too much noise, dirt, and general mahem.

Finally I found a house at the end of a quiet soi in a secured development.
All the houses are new..ish....and well looked after. The streets are clean and well maintained. Drainage is good so you don't get flooding when the heavy rains come, and it's far enough from the Karoke bars and other sources of excessive noise that you hardly ever hear anything but birds, and the occasional fart. 

It's not boring or sterile. The neighbours are a good mix of reasonably well educated Thai, and farangs. There are little unexpected things, like people stopping by with gifts of fruit or sticky buns. It has a real neighbourhood feel and it seems very secure because people look out for each other, but they don't try to run your life or interfer. My wife has made a few nice friends here and there are a few civilized farangs close enough to walk over for a chat with, so you can solve the problems of the world over a beer when you feel the need.

We all have our own preferences. If you really enjoy life out in a rural village with all it's limitations, thats fine. Some people are just wired that way. Most farangs I've ever met don't really take to it for very long and end up back in town just like I did. Some really hate it and once they get out, they don't even want to go back for a visit. 

You just have to try things out and keep looking until you find a place you can feel at home in. That's where I'm at right now, but like everything else in LOS it can change pretty quickly. If it does, I'll be moving on again I suppose. What else can you do?

----------


## Rocksteady

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> Some of the things I have watched Thais do to a nice area is stunning. Take a nice townhouse area and open up noodle shops in their driveway, Build 20 foot walls where the side you see is sinter blocks and unfinished while their side is finished. I have watched them drop plumbing and set in pumps right by their neighbors window, Make their front yards a jungle and then are forced to park their cars in the street blocking up the road all the time. Steal power from neighbors and open up shops round the clock. My Fav is the guy who owns a pig farm and off's the pork'er at 3am to butcher it up for market. All this happens in your local neighborhoods.
> 
> 
> & this is why I hate the fukers.
> 
> They have zero respect for themselves or others... 
> (& that's not 1 or 2, it is the vast majority.)


Agreed.  A wise man stated that a nation's religion says far more about its people's deficiencies.  They all swear they are bhuddists and then live in total disregard to its main tenets!

still, I haven't found anywhere better to live - especially with the Western world going down the toilet - China and India are far worse places to live and who would want to live with a Soviet Winter every year and I know I wouldn't last more than a couple of weeks in South America before i got 'offed'!  don't even mention Africa!

----------


## Rocksteady

> Originally Posted by Ceburat1
> 
> I also agree with Dr. Andy - it's all about education. I live in a Moo Baan and I see it all day every day. Will Thailand ever change - sad, but - not in our lifetime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I and my wife bought a lovely house in a modern moo baan.  After 3 years the village takes on its own role as a legal entity.  We had to vote for a village head and a committe (one representative for each soi).  A good turn out at the election of the village officials but as with most serious issues in Thailand, interest dropped off exponetially.

we are down to a handful or representatives with the others giving up from frustration.  Very little was getting done in sorting out the issues such as the street dogs the security guards would allow to come in and roam our sois and those neighbours who would buy yapping shit machines they fail to train and leave outside to make a racket 24/7.  The head of the village was always away on business and nobody would make a decision in his absence.

However, those that are left - including my wife have taken control and are getting things done.  They are all in agreement on sorting out the issues and we now stand a chance of having a fairly decent village to live in!

----------


## nigelandjan

> those neighbours who would buy yapping shit machines


  555  :smiley laughing:    how eloquently put

----------


## DJ Pat

When I married in '99 we bought a three storey house in a gated new street called Emarald Gardens in Nakhon Pathom. Within about nine months it was clear that not many other people lived in the street. Out of forty homes, only about 5 were occupied.

Behind our garden was a swamp which provided regular mosquito related incidents all day and all night, and the road became more and more unkempt and overgrown.

At times I felt like I was in some kind of apocolyptic wasteland miles from civilization.

A year later it was sold for about a third of the original value. Of course, I got the blame.

This pretty much signalled the start of my financial decline at the time.

----------


## nigelandjan

> At times I felt like I was in some kind of apocolyptic wasteland miles from civilization.


  To be fair I have had that same feeling in Bradford

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## DJ Pat

> Originally Posted by DJ Pat
> 
> At times I felt like I was in some kind of apocolyptic wasteland miles from civilization.
> 
> 
>   To be fair I have had that same feeling in Bradford


I've also developed this here in Cornwall, despite he surroundings and fine abode.

I'm now making tracks back to London. Will take me a few months but it's necessary, I'm going mad....no place to walk at night, no decent restaurants or take aways (I'm fussy)

----------


## jizzybloke

> (I'm fussy)


From the bloke that shags his cousin up the arse!  :Smile:

----------


## sabang

I'd say the worst of both worlds is living on a crap estate, and there are many of them. Security & maintenance is a joke, and the swimming pools I wouldn't dip _your_ toe in. Like living in a decrepit western suburb, but with noisy neighbours as well.

The good estate's are generally smaller, well managed, and not surprisingly more expensive too. But then there's the lack of privacy, LOL. Damn hired help- gardeners, pool cleaners & contractors- would come sauntering in at any time of day. So my idea of dispensing with a swimming costume whenever I felt like a dip soon evaporated. And of course you need a maid in 2 or 3 times a week to help keep the oversized pile clean. If you're suffering from the effects of the night before, the last thing you want is to wake up to this kind of palaver- more than once I got the wife to pay them just to piss off. I don't think I'll feature on lifestyles of the rich & shameless.  :Smile: 

Living out here in the country is nice, but don't get some misplaced idea of bucolic serenity. The dogs and chickens alone would give urban traffic noise a run for it's money, there's ever present insect noise (and them cicada's can sure get noisy), and when you don't get that many cars & motosai's going by, you hear and notice every one- especially with a tribe of dogs around. It's not unless you've been to some place like the remote tundra, or the Aussie outback, that you realise we're surrounded by noise all the time. Urbanite's don't even notice the ever present noise that surrounds them, until it's not there. 

Village noise is more 'interesting', but you can't switch it on and off. So if you're a village farang and something is going on, best get in the swing of things and join in- ie if you can't beat them, join them. Which in Isaan means you might be going to a party at the crack of dawn, or listening to a loud mow lam band (inevitably thru' an execrable sound system) which doesn't strike up 'til ten at night. Try not to live next to the village loudspeaker, or Wat, unless you like your noise. Either that, or suffer in silence- you'll only put yourself offside with the locals by complaining about their ways, visitor. Not a good idea in the ban nok.

Most Thai villagers think we're a bit odd living 'out here' actually- aren't we scared of ghosts? or robbers? or snakes? No, in all cases. And what they consider remote is certainly not considered remote in Oz- I can walk to any of three local villages in less than an hour, and enjoy the walk. Or just over half an hour and I'm in the 'big smoke'- Ubon city, which is nice to know even though I usually have to be coaxed to go in, even to the wifes bar. The snakes out here get out of your way too- seen four of the buggers in the last week, but they don't hang around for a Kodak moment.

Horses for courses, obviously. But if you're hypersensitive to noise (except the urban hum you don't even notice), you'll have some challenges adjusting to Thailand, or Asia in general.

----------


## boatboy

What about rooftop apartments, ones with a large outdoor patio area that can be screened similar to this.
Are they available in Thailand?

I have stayed in these in Vietnam for long stays before and they work well. We couldn't get a picture of ours as we were on the coast in a quieter area a few short klm's away where the buildings were lower,  but what we had was similar plus we had a large inflatable pool set up and a shaded section making it a nice oasis to escape the madness several floors down.
We enjoyed the madness, just not 24/7.

----------


## LooseBowels

Its very much buyer beware, and to understand that if you do buy, that there is a high likelyhood that shit in one form or another will happen.
There's no getting away from it and there is zip you can do cause its a third world lawless totally and utterly corrupt shithole. :Smile: 

You cant argue with that

----------


## sabang

It actually makes a lot of sense to rent for a while in Thailand before buying, or even to rent and never buy. If you buy, indeed choose carefully. Likewise if you build/ develop.

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## Stumpy

A little update. Out of sheer morbid curiosity I tried to understand the Thai guy. This went nowhere. There is zero respect for your neighbors here in Thailand. So it is what it is.

On another angle I took the advice of a few and took a begrudgingly stressed GF to talk to the police about this situation. Ohhhhh the beauty here. The policeman wanted 5000 baht to even come look and did not promise anything. As we know this is a total "scam the farang" deal. So I laughed and walked away.

The owners have come by 3 times now upset we do not want to buy the house. I will not even make them an offer. I have zero interest.

Everyday is a learning experience here. Some are good others make you shake your head in utter disbelief.

----------


## Stumpy

> In Thailand, the walled "moo baan" can be the only thing between you and some person installing a brand new chicken farm (OP), pig farm, motorcy repair shop, karaoke lounge, glue factory, brothel, etc. right next door to you.


Never believe that for one minute. There are no HOA's here. People will build anything they feel they want to whether you like it or not.




> Exactly, and that happens quite frequently. There was a farange who build a huge house not to far from me when I lived in Huahin. He was back in EU during most of the construction period, and when he arrived to take possession of his new ten million baht palace imagine his feelings when a fucking gigantic market had been set up right outside his wall. Blaring music all evening, seven days a week till about 11pm


I have personally witnessed this on at least a dozen occasions and I am not even really looking.

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## OhOh

> installing a brand new chicken farm (OP), pig farm, motorcy repair shop, karaoke lounge, glue factory, brothel, etc. right next door to you.


What is to stop the "locals" building some of the above on the other side of your wall?

----------


## DJ Pat

> The owners have come by 3 times now upset we do not want to buy the house. I will not even make them an offer. I have zero interest.
> 
> Everyday is a learning experience here. Some are good others make you shake your head in utter disbelief.


I hope you make it clear to the owners why you're not making an offer. 

Hammer your point home, go really over the top, make them see how brainless their race can be.

It's imperative they get the picture. A knock on effect could cure this Thai stupidness within 900 years or so.

----------


## chitown

BTW, if you slip a local official some baht that chicken farm will  disappear. They actually do have rules in Thailand, but the unwritten rule is that enforcement will cost you. 

A shop house, by law can only  have 1 dog. We had an idiot move in with 6 dogs. We met with one of the  village heads and after we gave them a box of "doughnuts" they came by  and the neighbor got rid of 5 of the 6 dogs. When I lived up North, a  guy brought a couple of cows to his house and we did the same things.  The cows were gone pretty quick. In the village I am in now, we had  about 10 stray dogs. I paid one of the security guys 500 baht and they  were gone the next day. Baht speaks volumes around here!!

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## chitown

There are neighborhoods in Thailand that have rules and actually enforce them. You are going to pay good to rent or buy a house there. This is a place I am looking to rent a house at. I have checked out extensively and there seems to be no B.S. going on here.

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## chitown

double post due to site hanging. Sorry about that.,

----------


## DrAndy

> I'm now making tracks back to London


bloody hell, unless you buy me a beer




> So my idea of dispensing with a swimming costume whenever I felt like a dip soon evaporated. And of course you need a maid in 2 or 3 times a week


quite, make sure she likes to see your "meat and two veg"




> It actually makes a lot of sense to rent for a while in Thailand before buying, or even to rent and never buy. If you buy, indeed choose carefully. Likewise if you build/ develop.


as in any country, of course




> There is zero respect for your neighbors here in Thailand. So it is what it is.


I haven't found that at all; mind you, that may be down to my extremely diplomatic wife who knows how Thais work

example:  the fat boy next door always seemed to have his TV on very loud, and even fell asleep with it playing half the night. She went round to ask him to try to turn it down, and gave him a box of chocolates - it worked

I wanted to go over there and smash the set up

----------


## peterpan

> I wanted to go over there and smash the set up


A surprise Andy. you came across as the quintessential diplomat.   :rofl:

----------


## DrAndy

yes, I realise that

----------


## palexxxx

> BTW, if you slip a local official some baht that chicken farm will  disappear. They actually do have rules in Thailand, but the unwritten rule is that enforcement will cost you. 
> 
> A shop house, by law can only  have 1 dog. We had an idiot move in with 6 dogs. We met with one of the  village heads and after we gave them a box of "doughnuts" they came by  and the neighbor got rid of 5 of the 6 dogs. When I lived up North, a  guy brought a couple of cows to his house and we did the same things.  The cows were gone pretty quick. In the village I am in now, we had  about 10 stray dogs. I paid one of the security guys 500 baht and they  were gone the next day. Baht speaks volumes around here!!



When you take this course of action,  does it ever get back to the transgressor who the complainer was?  I'm thinking reprisals.

----------


## DJ Pat

> Originally Posted by DJ Pat
> 
> I'm now making tracks back to London
> 
> 
> bloody hell, unless you buy me a beer


In London? No problems.

----------


## Cujo

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by DJ Pat
> ...


Make sure he doesn't put it on a tab though Drandy, rumour has it he's likely to go out for a smoke and never come back.

----------


## DJ Pat

^Not if it's at a very close friends place, then several beverages would be gratis

----------


## Rocksteady

> What about rooftop apartments, ones with a large outdoor patio area that can be screened similar to this. Are they available in Thailand? I have stayed in these in Vietnam for long stays before and they work well. We couldn't get a picture of ours as we were on the coast in a quieter area a few short klm's away where the buildings were lower, but what we had was similar plus we had a large inflatable pool set up and a shaded section making it a nice oasis to escape the madness several floors down. We enjoyed the madness, just not 24/7.


That's how I lived when in Bangkok.  I had a fantastic little studio on the top floor at the end of so1 Samsen rd.  I would sit out on my small balcony with a beer or five and watch the sunset over the river (almost close enough to dive into) and great views of Sanang Luang and the Grand Palace.  Only cost me 3.000bt a month as Thais never put the rent up!
Moved further down the road when i got married and lived in a large two room with a massive balcony - top floor (similar views) on Samsen soi 7 - a steal at 9,000bt a month.
It's the way to go with city living.

----------


## Rocksteady

> There are neighborhoods in Thailand that have rules and actually enforce them. You are going to pay good to rent or buy a house there. This is a place I am looking to rent a house at. I have checked out extensively and there seems to be no B.S. going on here.


For anyone living in Chonburi/Pattaya I can strongly recommend the Life and Living company.  There advertising hoards are all along Sukumivit Rd from Chonburi down to Pattas.  They are a local family and have built over 40 villages from simiple town houses to international standard villages - some are small with 2-300 houses and some are very large.  

They have a show room in Central Plaza Chonburi next to TMB (ground floor) the daughter runs this - a very very pleasant young lady with excellent English.  They are trying to build a community whereby people can buy with confidence knowing that they won't be having to face most of the shit mentioned so far.  I'm very happy with my house and it was a cool million baht cheaper than similar moo baans around me!

----------


## Stumpy

> BTW, if you slip a local official some baht that chicken farm will disappear. They actually do have rules in Thailand, but the unwritten rule is that enforcement will cost you.


Chi, I posted above, I tried that and was met with a "Gimme 5000 Baht and I will go look see" with no guarantee. Total scam IMHO. 




> There are neighborhoods in Thailand that have rules and actually enforce them.


I agree there may be a few but they are far and few between from what I have witnessed. In all the places I have lived a few appeared to be nice village at one point but they slowly degrade as people just do as they want. I just saw today where a guy about 4kms down the road painted his house this god awful burnt orange and it has a blue roof to boot. 




> that may be down to my extremely diplomatic wife who knows how Thais work


Absolutely. It in some cases it is a deal breaker if a foreigner even tries to negotiate.




> When you take this course of action, does it ever get back to the transgressor who the complainer was? I'm thinking reprisals.


My GF was adamant against going to go the police station. She was afraid of the cop going out and saying "Yeah it was those people over there that complained" and me being a foreigner only amplifies the situation. I passed on pursuing it on her behalf pursuing after the "Bribe" quote. Thais are very fearful of angering others it seems.

After all is said and done, its really no problem and truly supports my belief that renting is the safest way to go. I posted this thread for people that might be looking to buy and something they should really look long and hard at. While some say "No Problem its only 3 million baht I can walk away" that is a bitter pill to swallow. Easy to say, very hard to do. 

Maybe at some point I would want to buy but right now not part of my plan as I have not really figured where I want to live. I saw some very nice places in Pran Buri but far more then I am willing to drop on a place here in Thailand. Simply no ROI and a huge risk behind it. I can buy in Northern California with more land and enjoy a small incremental level of appreciation, It also offers better air, better scenery, cleaner rivers and lakes. I am not saying I want to move back there but when the price of land here reaches the same as US it is simply a no brainer.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> Chi, I posted above, I tried that and was met with a "Gimme 5000 Baht and I will go look see" with no guarantee. Total scam IMHO.


I think Chi was suggesting bribing the local Poo Yai Baan or someone from the Amphur office rather than the police.

----------


## chitown

> bribing



Hey, hey , hey!! It is a benevolent donation to the land I love. Using the word bribing make it sound so....so...so...well, it makes me feel......shall we say....less than squeaky clean!  :Smile:

----------


## OhOh

Oh to have a large vocabulary, a must for the aspiring lawyer/political leader.

----------


## keekwai

Renting...

Being a devout gypsy ... I'll have it no other way.

----------


## Rural Surin

> Everyday is a learning experience here.


Yet, many still don't learn from their experiences. ::chitown::

----------


## BillyZ

I've always had the fantasy that if that happened to me, Sweet Lord From Heaven Above forbid, I'd invest in some nice, loud speakers and enjoy my love of heavy metal: Judas Priest, Van Halen, Iron Maiden,etc. the wife would kill me and live in Isaan for a while. 
Now that I think about it, what would make the chickens stop breeding? Hi frequency 'sounds'? JUDAS PRIEST? Banging pots? Of course that could result it one getting shot. But it's an idea :-)

----------


## OhOh

> Being a devout gypsy ... I'll have it no other way.


Ever seen a Gypsy pay rent, they just move in, utilise the amenities/pasture/space, move on when evicted and let somebody else clean up the mess.

Hey that sounds mighty similar to many in Thailand.

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## Nip

> I am beginning to think they enjoy irritating farangs as well as Thais. They do some of the most bizarre things that even a retarded person would not do. 
> 
> I was walking in the locker room at a supposed high class fitness center in Silom today. There is entrance to showers, steam and sauna rooms. As I was walking through the entrance, 4 of the idiots tried to squeeze all around me to get in first. They were adult Thai men acting as if they were in 5th grade with towels wrapped around them. Whatever, I thought, as they won the race and got in the sauna first. I walked in and sat down and the fools started doing calisthenics in the sauna and talking loudly. The loud talk was ok, but sweat was flying off of them when they were doing jumping jacks and flopping around like epileptics. They ran out real quick when I grabbed 2 pails of water and dumped them onto the hot sauna stones. These same dickheads stand around in front of the mirrors int the locker room popping zits shooting the puss on the mirror, emptying sinuses in the sink, picking their nose and ears and flexing while taking pictures of each other. Yes they are adult men! Another group congregates around the water cooler and at the top of the flight of stairs going into the cardio room blocking both areas and expecting everyone to squeeze around them. I have just decided to burst through the crowd and disrupt their circle jerk because I think it all on purpose. 
> 
> One sat on a machine for over 20 minutes that I was clearly waiting for. Was he pumping iron? Nope, he was typing on his I-phone the whole time. What kind of gym etiquette is that? Back home, that would get you a dumbbell upside the head/.
> 
> Now mind you, these are the elites, the rich of Thailand. They drive BMW's, Mercs and one has a Lotus. They supposedly are all rich and travel about the globe. I have said to my wife and other Thais, that none of that matters if you have zero common sense and even less manners. They are closet savages at best.


I had a similar problem in a sauna last year and announced loudly one Thai man "I just cant help it but there is something about a man hairy arse that turns me on! Cleared the sauna in less than a minute...  :sexy:

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## nigelandjan

^ Do you mind going back to TV

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## keekwai

> Originally Posted by keekwai
> 
> Being a devout gypsy ... I'll have it no other way.
> 
> 
> Ever seen a Gypsy pay rent


I've never seen a gypsy. I was speaking non-literally. I've seen a few pirates though.

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## keekwai

> I had a similar problem in a sauna last year and announced loudly one Thai man "I just cant help it but there is something about a man hairy arse that turns me on! Cleared the sauna in less than a minute...


-Thais with hairy arses.
-A group of Thais that actually understood your English outburst
-Thais actually giving a shit and leaving.

Right.

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## BBlacky

> I am renting this cool place near the beach in Cha am as some of you know. Well  appx 2 weeks ago a guy right behind me has decided to take up chicken farming. He has worked round the clock building coops and leveling his land to let the feathered noisy things do there deal. Well a week ago he had nealy 100 of the noisy bastards  roaming around. I grew up on a farm as a kid so I am not all that annoyed by the sound but the smell of wet soggy chicken shit is something to behold and worse yet is to be down wind from it. We have enjoyed a few good rains down here in Cha am over the last week. Its not only the smell but the flies, the dung beetles and eventually cockroaches that just infest the place. 
> 
> The owner of the house I am renting came by yesterday and asked if we would be interested in buying the house. I said NO FUCKING WAY! I walked him towards the side of the house and he got a big ass whiff of the chicken shit smell. He was livid. Worse off this is the side with the master bedroom so now the the windows are closed up where before we got a nice breeze and seldom used the fan or AC.
> 
> So while I appreciate no zoning and building requirements it can also work against you. What was once a cool little beach house is now a house with some chicken shit smell blowing through the yard all the time and you get hours of the roosters screaming and the hens whining while getting laid. Ahhhh the beauty of renting. I gave notice yesterday. 
> 
> Some of the things I have watched Thais do to a nice area is stunning. Take a nice townhouse area and open up noodle shops in their driveway, Build 20 foot walls where the side you see is sinter blocks and unfinished while their side is finished. I have watched them drop plumbing and set in pumps right by their neighbors window, Make their front yards a jungle and then are forced to park their cars in the street blocking up the road all the time. Steal power from neighbors and open up shops round the clock. My Fav is the guy who owns a pig farm and off's the pork'er at 3am to butcher it up for market. All this happens in your local neighborhoods. 
> 
> Its great stuff and love the general neighbor courtesy...


And if you squawk about anything you're liable to get a pistol waved under your nose. My ex-wife (Bangkok Civil Servant, got reasonably high up before she quit) was an only child. The father was a real maniac, malarial and alcoholic. Her mother divorced him but he'd still come around the house in the early hours waving a pistol and threatening the kill them both. 

The neighbors' comment: "Oh, you must understand your poor father."

No elder brother there to protect her meant that I'd most likely face off with him eventually, and it would be OK corral all over again. KISS KISS BANG BANG sawadee my pen wry and say a prayer for your victim.

Of course, I would have the option of securing the services of some local worthy (Petchburi cowboy speed freek with a stolen .45) to pop him but that also brings on its own problems later. Having your father-in-law snuffed isn't exactly what you expected when getting hitched up. Unless you are from New Jersey, <snurf>

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## F4UCorsair

I come from a background of high incomes and generously low working hours, so many of our number were involved in side businesses, owning and hiring out yachts and aircraft were just a couple.  Few made any real money but all were heaps of trouble.  There was a saying, great advice, that cam e form it.

If it floats, flys, or f****, don't buy it, hire it.   The same goes for many things in Thailand it appears.

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## DrAndy

^ where can you hire a penis?

not attached to a man or similar

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## Stumpy

> ^ where can you hire a penis?
> 
> not attached to a man or similar


Dandy, You clearly require professional attention.

Why do you even post? Seriously. Do you think you are funny? Do you think your one liner posts(All 21,000 + of them) are valuable? You really need to expand your horizons a bit. By the numbers it appears your life is TD and you have obviously ran out of things to talk about with any sort of substance or value so you spend hours roaming TD's forums posting diarrhea. You are stuck in a vacuum. Take a break will ya.....Be good for you and the other posters who have to filter your nonsense. 

 You are like the loud mouth obnoxious smart ass kid who everybody really dislikes in school. Unfortunately you will not just shut up.

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## keekwai

... so there!

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## nigelandjan

> You are like the loud mouth obnoxious smart ass kid who everybody really dislikes in school. Unfortunately you will not just shut up.


     Here we go 15  -- nil  :Smile:

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## saxpression

I watched this thread for awhile. I really wanted to understand both sides. I think, based on what we know about the law, the status of farang, and the future political outlook, the OP is correct that renting is probably the better option unless your purchase payments are the same or lower. I'm not even considering his reason of having bad neighbors.

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## Mozzbie47

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> 
> ^ where can you hire a penis?
> 
> not attached to a man or similar
> 
> 
> Dandy, You clearly require professional attention.
> ...


 
 l dont think much of what Dr A says is silly or out of place, the reports on his appartments etc is very interesting and informative, as are his replys to the many questions asked on a wide range of topics on this forum. There are many here who no doubt have plenty of experiance, who are willing to give some direction, willing to help if they can. Dr A is in my oppinion, on the top part of that list, keep it up mate.

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## keekwai

Yeah! Let's hear it for Dr A ... "Hip hip .....

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## DrAndy

> Why do you even post? Seriously. Do you think you are funny? Do you think your one liner posts(All 21,000 + of them) are valuable?


you obviously do not get out much, or even to other parts of the forum

I am, at this very moment posting a series of pics in the building thread

have a look and see if any of your posts actually contribute much to the forum, besides bitching as some of my posts are not to your taste

put me on ignore too

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## DrAndy

> Yeah! Let's hear it for Dr A ... "Hip hip .....





> Why do you even post? Seriously. Do you think you are funny? Do you think your one liner posts(All 662 + of them) are valuable?


see, that'll show you

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## DrAndy

maybe JPPR should change his avatar

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## keekwai

^??? I'd have thought it was appropriate.

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## Stumpy

> Originally Posted by JPPR2
> 
> Why do you even post? Seriously. Do you think you are funny? Do you think your one liner posts(All 21,000 + of them) are valuable?
> 
> 
> you obviously do not get out much, or even to other parts of the forum
> 
> I am, at this very moment posting a series of pics in the building thread
> 
> ...


Look I think you ( Dandy) post some very good stuff, no argument there. But sadly you are like a Dr Jekyll/Mr. Hyde. 

I have read many of your posts and find some noteworthy but again all the good you do is negated by the child like, nonsense posts. I do not get all the one liners? Is there value? 

While I enjoy banter and some joking seeing you in every thread is a bit too much. Sadly I am forced to ignore you even though I might miss out on something good. 

BTW thanks for the "Red" like that really adds to your credibility. 

Carry on.....

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## Ratchaburi

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by JPPR2
> ...


 
Well you are doing a bloody good job of igoring Dr Andy :smiley laughing:

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## nigelandjan

> I am, at this very moment posting a series of pics in the building thread


   15  all   ( possibly )

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## nigelandjan

> maybe JPPR should change his avatar


     30 -- 15  Andrew   ( new balls pls )

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## DrAndy

> I have read many of your posts and find some noteworthy but again all the good you do is negated by the child like, nonsense posts. I do not get all the one liners?


good; like everything in life, all is not perfect

I am happy you get some of the one-liners people like you make me famous for, the others just go over your head and I am sorry for that

it is up to me how I post, not you, so butt out

just think, it may well be possible I find a lot of your posts tedious or boring, but why would I bother starting a shitfight so I could tell you in the rudest manner I could think of?

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## DrAndy

> 30 -- 15 Andrew ( new balls pls )


his point was cancelled due to a foot fault - in his mouth

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## Iceburg Slim

I fink Drandy is a legend.  I'm thinking of getting a big tattoo on my back of his avatar with "DrAndy" above it.

Think of all the chicks I'll get.

----------


## DrAndy

sorry Iceberk, that is copyright all over the world. You would not be able to cross any border with that on you

you could just have a large tattoo of a dog shit and put Iceturd above it

think of all the chicks you would get!

----------


## Mozzbie47

^^ more bait Dr A ?

----------


## DrAndy

^ yes, Iceberk likes to think he has the answer to life, the universe and everything

----------


## nigelandjan

> I am happy you get some of the one-liners people like you make me famous for,


  40--15



> it is up to me how I post, not you, so butt out


  Advatange Andrew. 



> his point was cancelled due to a foot fault - in his mouth


       oooooooooooooooooooooooo  crowd coos and leaves seats  GAME OVER

----------


## nigelandjan

> Think of all the chicks I'll get.



  Doubtfull  ............... more likely covered in pidgion crap

----------


## Racin

> I am beginning to think they enjoy irritating farangs as well as Thais. They do some of the most bizarre things that even a retarded person would not do. 
> 
> I was walking in the locker room at a supposed high class fitness center in Silom today. There is entrance to showers, steam and sauna rooms. As I was walking through the entrance, 4 of the idiots tried to squeeze all around me to get in first. They were adult Thai men acting as if they were in 5th grade with towels wrapped around them. Whatever, I thought, as they won the race and got in the sauna first. I walked in and sat down and the fools started doing calisthenics in the sauna and talking loudly. The loud talk was ok, but sweat was flying off of them when they were doing jumping jacks and flopping around like epileptics. They ran out real quick when I grabbed 2 pails of water and dumped them onto the hot sauna stones. These same dickheads stand around in front of the mirrors int the locker room popping zits shooting the puss on the mirror, emptying sinuses in the sink, picking their nose and ears and flexing while taking pictures of each other. Yes they are adult men! Another group congregates around the water cooler and at the top of the flight of stairs going into the cardio room blocking both areas and expecting everyone to squeeze around them. I have just decided to burst through the crowd and disrupt their circle jerk because I think it all on purpose. 
> 
> One sat on a machine for over 20 minutes that I was clearly waiting for. Was he pumping iron? Nope, he was typing on his I-phone the whole time. What kind of gym etiquette is that? Back home, that would get you a dumbbell upside the head/.
> 
> Now mind you, these are the elites, the rich of Thailand. They drive BMW's, Mercs and one has a Lotus. They supposedly are all rich and travel about the globe. I have said to my wife and other Thais, that none of that matters if you have zero common sense and even less manners. They are closet savages at best.


Well, most Thais are retarded and never reach a mental level above that of a 13-year-old.

----------

