#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Construction in Thailand >  >  DrAndy's Wife's New Project in the old city

## DrAndy

Well, she has bought a house in the old city with a mortgage and extra funds to develop it

She will be doing this as her first project and I will remain on the sidelines as a technical advisor. She found the house by herself and decided on what to do with it.

The house is situated in a little soi quite near Wat Phra Singh, so is in an excellent location very near the Sunday Walking Street market; her plan is to make two 2 bedroom flats for renting out

Pics to follow

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## Davis Knowlton

Makings of a good thread here.

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## Mamasun

Will love to follow this thread too....

Chok dii

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## aging one

How much land did she buy as well Andy. I have a friend up there that has a house in the inner city. 280 wah so a niced size plot.

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## DrAndy

^ yes, that's a nice size, and it must have cost quite a bit

this land is only 30 sq wah, the building being about 60 sq metere each floor at the moment (15 sq wah)

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## Dillinger

This should be good.
Is she the assertive type ?
Looking forward to seeing the electrical installations :-)

Tell her Chok dee and thanks for sharing the build on here

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## aging one

> This should be good. Is she the assertive type ? Looking forward to seeing the electrical installations :-)


You know it will be good. Going up, the only way to go. :Smile:

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## Loy Toy

> and I will remain on the sidelines as a technical advisor


I hope you have your work permit in order.................... :Smile: 

Please pass on my best wishes to Mrs. Doc A and we all look forward to seeing the project materialize by way of visual images.

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## UdonThani Pete

Wishing you both all the best for the project.
Pete  :St George:

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## BKKBILL

May I also join the crowd of well wishers. I'm sure the Mrs. was instrumental in many of the decisions on the last builds so luck I think will not be needed. Looking forward to this one.

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## AntRobertson

> The house is situated in a little soi quite near Wat Phra Singh


I used to live down there. Nice area, although I did find the weekly market a bit of a pain after a while.

Have they sorted out the mess they made with the cobbled roads?

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## Malicious

Another project.....and about time to  :Smile:

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## Rural Surin

Looking forward to the progression with accompanying photos, Andy!

Best to you and the missus. :Smile:

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## palexxxx

Looking forward to this thread Andy.  Good luck with it.

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## Thetyim

> She will be doing this as her first project and I will remain on the sidelines as a technical advisor.


I think you should let her do the thread as well  :mid:

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## DrAndy

blimey, she gets more plaudits then I ever did!   thanks for all the best wishes

she hasn't got the time to post pics here, so she has asked me to do it

she is far too busy on Facebook

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## Loombucket

I'm sure you will do an excellent job, interpreting her pictures into a decent thread. Please add my best wishes to the success of the project.

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## DrAndy

so, a view down the little soi. These row houses were built in 1990 on a single plot of land, so the soi does not have a number but the old house number

Those houses opposite are about half the size of the one we have bought, so we are on the posh side of the street

The houses opposite have parking spaces, our side does not...but as we are the end house, we can park in the road without blocking it, so we do!



This is the house. The builders moved in today before I took any pics, but the place was in a mess. Damp problems were the worst, but termites too

It is a bit overlooked by the apartment block next door, but we will be able to provide some privacy



As you may notice, this is an "end of row" house, so has a small passageway at the side. This is what made the house an attractive proposition, as it then enables a fairly easy conversion to two separate flats



The charming entrance area

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## Jesus Jones

Are these projects easy to rent out?  I'm assuming refurbished houses are not good for resale.  Old spirits and all that!

My wife and I were looking to buy a couple of run-down town house as a project for sale or rent.

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## DrAndy

The interior downstairs

The main entrance area. The ceiling had fallen down; the owner thought somebody had broken in and pulled it down!  I thought that it was probably due to damp making the gyproc swell and break



The same downstairs room the other direction, a bathroom door on the right. That is under the stairs and fairly small, but OK




A termite nest established under the ceiling...the real culprits. They had eaten the paper covering off the gyproc board making it weak, helping it fall down




The parquet on the stairs was quite tasty too, as was all the upstairs parquet




this is a pic of the underside of the gyproc showing the termite "earth" they had put in place

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## Storekeeper

What city do you live in Dr Andy?

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## Koetjeka

This is going to be an awesome thread, good luck!

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## Boon Mee

Good luck with the project DrAndy.  Nice pics of the termite damage.  Seems to be a necessity here to spray for them regularly.

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## pseudolus

DrAndy, just out of interest when you turn these houses into flats, do the neighbours say anything? Do they care? So you need some kind of permission or anything?

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## Dillinger

> she has bought a house in the old city with a mortgage and extra funds to develop it





> She found the house by herself


Did someone survey the house ?




> The main entrance area. The ceiling had fallen down; the owner thought somebody had broken in and pulled it down!


Yeah right, he must have known it was ridden with termites, simply judging by the stairs.

Hope you got a good price for it. Arent termites a right barstard to remove once in there ?

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## Davis Knowlton

> Hope you got a good price for it. Arent termites a right barstard to remove once in there ?


It's a daunting project, for certain, but if done properly (as I'm sure it will be) it will make two very nice apartments. I too thought termites were a real bitch to totally clear out, especially given the level of infestation you appear to have. Do you have to strip out all things wooden?

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## sunsetter

another cracking thread on the way, good luck mrs DR andy  ::chitown::

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## DrAndy

> Are these projects easy to rent out?  I'm assuming refurbished houses are not good for resale.  Old spirits and all that!
> 
> My wife and I were looking to buy a couple of run-down town house as a project for sale or rent.



from what I have seen and heard, if you refurbish to a good standard then resale is usually no problem. Old spirits have nothing to do with it (you can have a house ceremony to get rid of them) but the _nouveau riche_ Thai mentality of wanting everything new

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## DrAndy

> Nice pics of the termite damage. Seems to be a necessity here to spray for them regularly.


they don't spray, they inject poison into the ground under the house; for a house like this, that will mean drilling holes about 1 metre apart and injecting the solution

that will kill any nests below and around the house




> Did someone survey the house ?


yes, me




> Arent termites a right barstard to remove once in there ?


the ones in the house are easily spotted and can be removed; they can be sprayed to kill any stragglers



> I too thought termites were a real bitch to totally clear out, especially given the level of infestation you appear to have. Do you have to strip out all things wooden?


just spray around anything; we will be removing most of the wood in the house except one o two door frames anyway

I have brought with me a poison not available in Thailand that does not kill on contact. When the termites come into contact with it they just keep going. They take the poison on them back to the nest and within a couple of months the nest dies. That would get rid of any termites in the surrounding areas too

that poison lasts several years, unlike the local stuff which needs injecting every year or so

Termidor SC, Termador, Termidor Termite - FREE SHIPPING

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## DrAndy

> DrAndy, just out of interest when you turn these houses into flats, do the neighbours say anything? Do they care? So you need some kind of permission or anything?


If you want to be careful, you can inform the council of your plans and get a bit of paper - they will not stop the work unless they receive a valid complaint from a neighbour (like enroaching on their land by roof overhang etc)

My wife is an excellent diplomat and can pacify a mad dog

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## DrAndy

> What city do you live in Dr Andy?



sorry, thought everyone knew, Chiang Mai

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## Exige

Good luck.
I would simply knock down the entire building. Build a fresh one. Then you have a brand new house for sale.  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

The person who was selling it said her sister wanted to do that

but that would be a different type of project

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## Exige

Prolly cheaper and faster to do a complete knockdown and rebuild a new house.

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## DrAndy

nope, much more expensive and slow; we hope to turn this house around in 2 months, and the cost will be around B200K for labour, maybe another B300K for materials

here are some pics of the land surrounding the house

this is the back garden; should make a nice patio for sitting and having a coffee



the rear wall and next door's plants, give privacy

this patio area will need some cover so that privacy from the apartment block is assured



The side passage; we will build a wall near the sticking up thing. That will give the upstairs flat a small sitting area too. The far end will be blocked by the new entrance




This is the upstairs rear existing patio. We will make this into a new kitchen with new walls and roof




this is the upstairs front patio; we will remove the existing wall with window and door, move it back to the sticking out corner and create a bedroom with new walls and roof.

the LHS window will become a door for access to the mini  balcony



this is another view of the upstairs rear patio, to become a kitchen




and this is the front land area. We will remove that small wall on the RHS and put a new wall at the road edge. We can then put the tank and pump there

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## DrAndy

I will post some floor plans tomorrow, the old and the projected

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## Davis Knowlton

^^It's a real knack to view crumbing chaos, and be able to clearly visualize the potential beneath. It's a knack that I found, when we built our house, that I don't have - at all. Fortunately my wife, who designed and built the house, does.

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## jizzybloke

Best of luck to The MrsDrA and I'll be watching this thread too!

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## ChookRaffle Jones

Same same doc, will be watching and hopefully learning something about building
in Thailand

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## Rural Surin

> ^^It's a real knack to view crumbing chaos, and be able to clearly visualize the potential beneath. It's a knack that I found, when we built our house, that I don't have - at all. Fortunately my wife, who designed and built the house, does.


Hang on to her, Davis! :Smile:

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## Norton

Looking forward to seeing a sows ear become a silk purse Pete. Sure it will be well done.

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## liveinlos

Well someone has to state some truths here instead of all the Donald Trump I am going to be a millionaire landlord, backslapping going on.

This place is a dump by even Thai standards with a huge amount of renovation required and cost.

I don't think any Thai not married to a farang would ever, and I mean ever, take an attempt on this place as it appears to have been empty for a long time to prove my point

Looking at the location and the size, I fail to see how this place will ever generate income?

The rent for something like that must be well under 5,000 thb per month, I would guess 2,500 thb so times two that would be mean 5,000 thb per month income?

I am sure if any of the neighbors are renting they are not paying more than 2,500 thb per month. Look at their old motorbikes, cars, and junk as evidence of the quality of the neighborhood

Even at 5,000 thb rent per month, which I honestly do not think you will get in this area of run down block houses, the 10,000 thb per month probably cannot service the loan unless the place was bought for almost nothing do to the poor condition?

No amount of interior renovation jacks the rent up if the surrounding area is run down and low cost which appears to be the case here

The type of tenants that rent these places are questionable at best, often removing fixtures and anything else they can upon eviction for not paying the rent

Allot of money will be spent to make this place livable and the rent amount cannot sustain the cost plus loan cost in my opinion

As mentioned I would be worried that the area only attracts tenants you won't be happy dealing with after they decide not to pay which happens ALL the time in areas like this

No one ever gets Park Avenue prices in the ghetto no matter how nice the renovations may be

The fact there is no view, no parking or anything else and sandwiched right next to a huge apartment block of more low cost dwellers would make this investment probably not a smart one

If you think low cost renters (thai) are a safe investment, I would have to seriously question that

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## draco888

I would question how you know all of this when you do not know the purchase price, loan amount or loan costs. What you should know is that there does seem to be parking available.

How many renovations and rentals have you done?




> Well someone has to state some truths here instead of all the Donald Trump I am going to be a millionaire landlord, backslapping going on.
> 
> This place is a dump by even Thai standards with a huge amount of renovation required and cost.
> 
> I don't think any Thai not married to a farang would ever, and I mean ever, take an attempt on this place as it appears to have been empty for a long time to prove my point
> 
> Looking at the location and the size, I fail to see how this place will ever generate income?
> 
> The rent for something like that must be well under 5,000 thb per month, I would guess 2,500 thb so times two that would be mean 5,000 thb per month income?
> ...

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## Yasojack

So i take it Dr Andy the new Admin :rofl:   with all this backslapping going on :Smile:

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## daveboy

Did Thai builders ever use Asbestos for building materials ?

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## Latindancer

That was going to be my question. The corrugated fibro looks a bit toxic.

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## DrAndy

> a silk purse Pete


what's that then?






> This place is a dump by even Thai standards with a huge amount of renovation required and cost.


I agree, that is why we bought it, although the renovation cost is not too bad




> Looking at the location and the size, I fail to see how this place will ever generate income?


quite right, it is difficult to see.  
The location is excellent, in the old city very near loads of restaurants and bars. Although the little soi looks a bit bedraggled, that is not a problem, it can also be described as having charm.  
It is small, true, but when we have finished there will be two approx. 60/70 sq m apartments.  
As for income, there does seem to be a demand for 2 bed places at moderate rents.




> The fact there is no view, no parking or anything else and sandwiched right next to a huge apartment block of more low cost dwellers would make this investment probably not a smart one


I agree, it does look hopeless, but maybe will eat your hat in the near future



> Did Thai builders ever use Asbestos for building materials ?


Some materials do contain asbestos, including that type of roof, but hopefully they will just be removing them rather than cutting or sanding, so little dust will be generated. The builders are all wearing masks, although that may be because they have a cold

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## DrAndy

> So i take it Dr Andy the new Admin  with all this backslapping going on



according to Crass, I am the new owner

kowtow!

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## Scandinavian

> Well someone has to state some truths here instead of all the Donald Trump I am going to be a millionaire landlord, backslapping going on.
> 
> This place is a dump by even Thai standards with a huge amount of renovation required and cost.
> 
> I don't think any Thai not married to a farang would ever, and I mean ever, take an attempt on this place as it appears to have been empty for a long time to prove my point
> 
> Looking at the location and the size, I fail to see how this place will ever generate income?
> 
> The rent for something like that must be well under 5,000 thb per month, I would guess 2,500 thb so times two that would be mean 5,000 thb per month income?
> ...


You clearly don't know what Mr&Mrs Andy can do with a place like this. Wait and see, and you'll eat your hat. I am sure this building will be a success.

Tom

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## Thetyim

> Even at 5,000 thb rent per month, which I honestly do not think you will get in this area of run down block houses, the 10,000 thb per month probably cannot service the loan unless the place was bought for almost nothing do to the poor condition?


Maybe the rent is only intended to cover maintenance and repairs and the long term objective is appreciation of house and land.
The old city, CM is a good bet compared to 2 rai out in the sticks.

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## DrAndy

well, we hope for appreciation, true, but we will also be asking B15000 a month for each apartment

that seems achievable based on our experience recently

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## Davis Knowlton

I think a rebuild, vice knocking it down and building anew, is a far better idea. I love funky older houses. If the interior is all new, there's no difference, and the exterior still looks a part of the neighborhood.

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## CNF55

^^That is a very decent rental income - did not expect it to be that high in CM.

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## DrAndy

This is what we intend to do with the house

This is the existing plan, no walls downstairs, single entrance, two open terraces upstairs



and this is the approx. final plan (we have already changed it a bit!)

My wife likes fairly open plan so has put arches in wherever possible (green)


The two upstairs terraces will be enclosed to make more rooms

anyone can work out the sizes from the plan; the bedrooms are quite small but sufficient, the living spaces are fine

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## Exige

Plans looks lovely, best of luck!

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## DrAndy

> ^^That is a very decent rental income - did not expect it to be that high in CM.



we are getting B10000 a month for 55sq m single bed apartments already

CM is buzzing and accommodation in the centre is in demand. There are lots of condos outside but that means a 10/20 minute drive in, and they are not much cheaper

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## DrAndy

> I think a rebuild, vice knocking it down and building anew, is a far better idea


also a lot cheaper!  this place is only 23 years old and has been neglected, but is basically sound

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## draco888

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> I think a rebuild, vice knocking it down and building anew, is a far better idea
> 
> 
> also a lot cheaper!  this place is only 23 years old and has been neglected, but is basically sound


Are we permitted to know the purchase price or is that privileged information?  :Smile:

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## Davis Knowlton

I had a second house here before I finally managed to sell it. It was newly renovated by me, and a nice-looking one-story house on a small lot in a great location. Three bedrooms, decent size living room, dining room and kitchen, one bath, water tank. Problem was that since there are no foreigners down here, I ended up renting it to Flips. In 5 years renting it, I had one good year (older American guy with Flip wife). Every single Flip, without exception, was a hassle - from having to chase down the rent every month, to trashing the place, to skipping out in the night, to paying the bills with rubber checks, etc, etc. Finally, I fixed it up (again) and let it sit empty for 18 months until I finally unloaded it. The rent income just wasn't worth the never-ending bullshit.

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## DrAndy

yes, rentals can be a pain; hopefully we can find responsible tenants

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## DrAndy

> Are we permitted to know the purchase price or is that privileged information?


not really, we could have a guessing game; the winner gets a beer

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## draco888

ok, total shot in the dark 2 million with the termites thrown in for free.

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## Thetyim

^
Nah far too much
550,000 baht

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## Rural Surin

> ^
> Nah far too much
> 550,000 baht


Half-a-mil. 
That's respectable, considering what needs to be done.

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## Chairman Mao

379,000b

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## BKKBILL

> Originally Posted by draco888
> 
> Are we permitted to know the purchase price or is that privileged information?
> 
> 
> not really, we could have a guessing game; the winner gets a beer


What brand of beer?

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## Yasojack

Andy is CM getting a lot busier.?

my guess 450,000

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## Looper

Good luck to the enterprising MrsAndy




> I have brought with me a poison not available in Thailand that does not kill on contact. When the termites come into contact with it they just keep going. They take the poison on them back to the nest and within a couple of months the nest dies.
> 
> That would get rid of any termites in the surrounding areas too  that poison lasts several years, unlike the local stuff which needs injecting every year or so
> 
> Termidor SC, Termador, Termidor Termite - FREE SHIPPING


Not available in Thailand?

It is not available in Aussie so it is one of the things I smuggle back from Thailand. I put it in empty shampoo and sun cream bottles so customs don't crack on. Just have to remember not lather my lovely locks with Termidor in the shower back home! (at least I won't get a termite infestation in my brain while sleeping)

The sell it in HomePro for 1500 baht.

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## DrAndy

News to me, Looper, thanks

not available in the UK either

seems like good stuff but quite toxic so you must be very careful when using it

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## DrAndy

You guys who live in the sticks don't really have much idea of property prices

It is very difficult, if not impossible, to find anything under a million in the city

The old wooden house I bought for a million 10 years ago I have just sold for 3m, although it was renovated nicely

Draco is nearest so far

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## Chairman Mao

> 2 million with the termites thrown in for free.





> Draco is nearest so far





> 


 :Bigeyes:

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## DrAndy

yes indeed, cosmetically awful, that is all part of the development game. Most people cannot see past the crud and visualise what can be made of a place

the ceiling was going to be taken off anyway: we will render the concrete smooth, thus giving more height to the rooms

Yesterday we went to the secondhand woodyard and bought some nice teak doors for a good price.

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## Thetyim

> You guys who live in the sticks don't really have much idea of property prices


Similar sized house with parking space in need of minor repairs was sold in Phrae city centre for 300,000 baht

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## DrAndy

so, for all the doom and gloom merchants

they are cracking on building the walls for the new rooms downstairs

these are the two bedrooms, quite small but good enough

the ceiling will be rendered except where the pipes go across, that will be boarded



Inside a bedroom, big enough for a queen size and furniture




This is the downstairs kitchen/diner, about 3 metres long, less the fridge space

so a sink, a small hob and working space against the wall

I do have the option of making an L shape kitchen but then life becomes more complicated and expensive

To the left of the pic is the patio area



This is the upstairs front; we removed a wall and will shift it back to the column, then that outside terrace will become a bedroom. The room in front will be a living room



The upstairs rear; to the left a bedroom - that door will be blocked and the door will be at the end. 

Where the guy is standing will be the kitchen/diner





the plumber and electrician are working full blast too

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## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> You guys who live in the sticks don't really have much idea of property prices
> 
> 
> Similar sized house with parking space in need of minor repairs was sold in Phrae city centre for 300,000 baht



yes, we went to Phrae a couple of weeks ago......

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## nigelandjan

Good luck with it all Doc ,, missed the start of this one ,, have caught up now though .

Allways good to see a build thread , new or renovation ,, for  sure DD enjoyed these.

Fingers crossed will be doing my first one in October this year

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## Sailing into trouble

God I wish I had the ability to take on a project like that. Last summer spent 10 days redoing an 5ft by 10 bathroom. lol great thread.

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## DrAndy

> I wish I had the ability to take on a project like that. Last summer spent 10 days redoing an 5ft by 10 bathroom



yes, but you could probably sail around the world; I can never get out of port

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## hillbilly

We have been asked to buy several townhouses here in BKK in pretty much the same shape that Dr. Andy has shown.

Unless the asking price is dirt cheap it is hard to make any money.

To rent a town house for B6000-10,000 per month (just guessing) by splitting it into two homes takes forever to recoup the money to make money. Unless you are thinking about the the Dr. Andy offspring. Even then, it will take some time.

Just my opinion and good luck!

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## draco888

Return on capital invested rather than 'recouping' the money invested is the usual way to view projects such as this I would have thought. Although if it were possible to recoup the money and retain the asset that would of course be welcome  :Smile: 




> We have been asked to buy several townhouses here in BKK in pretty much the same shape that Dr. Andy has shown.
> 
> Unless the asking price is dirt cheap it is hard to make any money.
> 
> To rent a town house for B6000-10,000 per month (just guessing) by splitting it into two homes takes forever to recoup the money to make money. Unless you are thinking about the the Dr. Andy offspring. Even then, it will take some time.
> 
> Just my opinion and good luck!

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## DrAndy

^ true

my maths

12,500 a month (low figure) x 2 = 25,000 x 12 = 300,000 a year

8 years later  2.4 million  + capital appreciation

of course things don't always go smoothly and the apartments could be empty occasionally

but it looks good to me






> by splitting it into two homes takes forever to recoup the money to make money


so not really, 8-10 years max, and you still have the asset

and there is always the option to sell on the completed project, or let someone else run it for an annual  fee equivalent to 70% of projected earnings

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## DrAndy

well

they have knocked a nice hole through the wall for the private entrance to the upstairs flat, it will probably be a little higher and arched

and another hole to put some glass blocks in for extra light





The front of the house almost gone!

the LHS is a door to a small balcony (which was inaccessible previously, thus leading to a build up of rubbish blocking the water escape and hence causing some of the damp)




closing up the bedroom door and a wall in the kitchen where the fridge will sit






The plumber and electrician are cutting channels all over the place

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## laymond

any female labourers on site doc?? a few piccies would be great.

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## nigelandjan

^ or even some pics of the new owner , surveying her new pile  :mid:

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## DrAndy

> any female labourers on site doc??


yes, very chunky, I will try to get one for you!!  (pervert)



> or even some pics of the new owner , surveying her new pile


well, if I posted her pic some stalker would come along, and with the kind help of another old hag member, attempt to insult her

forums eh?

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## Yasojack

Your lucky Andy, workers getting on with the job, throw them my way when your finished with them :Smile:

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## Dillinger

What made you decide to turn it into 2 flats, rather than leave it as a house Andy ?

That was a nice little sun trap on that balcony.

I have one similar in Bangkok, it is a lot bigger though and 3 bed, but when I am in that house, I spend most of the time on the balcony, especially of the evening, when you get a nice breeze. 

Out there I have an overhead fan, a stone table and chairs(with chessboard(OK draughts) paddling pool, sun lounger, mosquito bat and beer fridge.

Ive wrote some of my finest Teakdoor posts on that balcony :Smile:

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## Dillinger

Oh the other great thing about that balcony, is that there's a tower block at the end of the Soi.

Some tasty birds come out of there all tarted up around 6PM, on there way to Cowboy and Nana I reckon :Smile:

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## Chairman Mao

> I spend most of the time on the balcony, especially of the evening, when you get a nice breeze. 
> 
> Out there I have an overhead fan, a stone table and chairs(with chessboard(OK draughts) paddling pool, sun lounger, mosquito bat and beer fridge.


Gotta agree, we've got a BBQ on our main balcony as well and it's perfect.

Or almost perfect.

The balcony on my old BKK Condo was looking over the pool that usually had a small bevy of Japanese GF's and mistresses frolicking in.

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## DrAndy

> What made you decide to turn it into 2 flats, rather than leave it as a house Andy ?


this is not a personal dwelling but a business project

more rent from 2 flats





> That was a nice little sun trap on that balcony.


just what you need in the tropics

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## DrAndy

> Your lucky Andy, workers getting on with the job, throw them my way when your finished with them


yes, the boss is a really nice guy too, he cares what he does and has made a couple of excellent suggestions

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## benlovesnuk

I think its interesting, Im not sure about your rent estimates being on target. But its good to see old houses being renovated and chiangmai being done out as it seems to more and more.
I know rent has gone up, and I dont doubt you could rent for the price I just think you might find it hard to keep that rental being achieved.
I suppose it depends on the finishes and marketing of such a project.

Im thinking of getting a shophouse near phra singh but using it for business purposes, there are still plenty of offers to be had in the centre in you can read thai and know the right people(in need of a quick sale).

I look forward to your pictures. best of luck.

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## DrAndy

> Im not sure about your rent estimates being on target.


me neither but I know how much I can get for a smaller one bed apartment

and this is in an even better location






> I just think you might find it hard to keep that rental being achieved.


You mean in the future?

who knows what the future holds, but the property boom and demand for flats  has kept growing; There is probably another five years left before things slow down. If they build the high speed railway, that may be a low estimate

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## benlovesnuk

I understand what your saying, im sure youve done some reserach.

I think Chiangmai is a city for the future, thats why I live there. many People cant get mortgages to buy and rental will keep growing. I wish you guys every success, and if it works I might be keen on your heels. 

I dont doubt your prices for the future, but I think for the first 2-3 years it might be hit and miss. Chiangmai is still growing, and there are a lot of new places being developed.

bring on the photos.

----------


## snakeeyes

Great topic ,  looking forward to seeing the finished project , Thank you ,   :Smile:

----------


## DrAndy

> I wish you guys every success, and if it works I might be keen on your heels.


oh dear, competition

people like you will make the bubble a reality!




> but I think for the first 2-3 years it might be hit and miss. Chiangmai is still growing, and there are a lot of new places being developed.


might be. Most of the new places being developed are outside the city, in places like Nimm, or even further, their location being blurred by their marketing

inside the city, there is little land for proper development and what there is has become very expensive

----------


## Dillinger

Whats the timeline on this project then Andy ?

----------


## DrAndy

now I have to edit my post as my reply to his post makes no sense

well, Dill, we hope to complete the main building works in about 2 months

----------


## laymond

> Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
> 
> I wish you guys every success, and if it works I might be keen on your heels.
> 
> 
> oh dear, competition
> 
> people like you will make the bubble a reality!
> 
> ...


yes,theres always a gunner peeping over the fence.good on you doc,hope its a winner for you and the bride.

----------


## benlovesnuk

> Originally Posted by benlovesnuk
> 
> I wish you guys every success, and if it works I might be keen on your heels.
> 
> 
> oh dear, competition
> 
> people like you will make the bubble a reality!
> 
> ...


Not competition, i still need to finish the house and you know how long that has taken.
I would like a property in the centre but for our business's. Renting out is just an easy function because of the amount of levels these town/shop houses have.

There seems a few places, and as you say not so many people filling this area. 

Anyway good luck!

----------


## KiCanCummins

Nice to see the old ones being renovated.

One sees too many good homes left to rot.
certainly a different culture from the west.

The Mrs had a problem seeing what could be done to her house when I designed the Farang style kitchen for her. 
But when you can see the potential in a property, you can do lots.
Great to hear that you have an excellent contractor that is not afraid to think also.

good to see the before and continuing build.

Good luck with your quest.

KCC

----------


## Yasojack

C'mon Andy wheres the Pics or have the builders downed tools for a funeral :Smile:

----------


## farmerfloyd

Cheap rentals  (slum lords)  always outperform expensive rentals,  A million dollar house doesnt even pay the interest on the loan.   Herein Florida, been buying
20k-30k houses which are giving me a 22%-33% return on my investment.
    What is a 30% return on 1000,000 house , that is 25,000 month, only 5mil houses in calif or coast get 25k mer month.  Buy used bargains  for sure,  Yes and   buy worst house in  good neighbor hood too  (51 yrs experience)

----------


## DrAndy

> C'mon Andy wheres the Pics or have the builders downed tools for a funeral


patience, little Jack, there has to be some good progress before pics are worth posting

and there has been.....

This will be the double door access to the patio

sorry about the pics quality, getting the balance between light and dark is a problem






> any female labourers on site doc?? a few piccies would be great.


and that is our woman worker!



next to that is the old door, now a window at the end of the kitchen counter




the corridor from that room back to the front door.

Bedrooms on the right, bathroom then stairs on the left



upstairs, they are cutting some new openings for windows




and this is the upstairs lounge, the LH door to a small balcony, the RH door to a bedroom

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Coming along very nicely, and quickly.

----------


## Sailing into trouble

So Andy you must have got a good deal on the house. This is not a quick reno and resell job is it. It looks like you have replaced more than what is left standing. Looks exciting, to do as long as you know how many bits of wall are needed to keep the roof up :-)

----------


## ootai

> Looks exciting, to do as long as you know how many bits of wall are needed to keep the roof up :-)


I have read lots of comments regarding "why do Thai's use posts and beams rather than supporting walls?" the answer is " it doesn't matter what walls you knock out".
If you had to worry about which walls were supporting the roof or floor above this would be a totally different renovation, it is quite simple when you don't need to worry as long as you don't take a post or beam.

In my opinion the hardest part would be being able to see what could be created out of a the original dump.  Well done DrA.  I hope you never make too much money so that you never stop doing this type of thing, which of course means keeping us entertained with the threads on your projects.

----------


## DrAndy

> This is not a quick reno and resell job is it.


no, it is a buy-to-rent project; my wife likes money coming in and capital appreciation is a bonus




> I have read lots of comments regarding "why do Thai's use posts and beams rather than supporting walls?" the answer is " it doesn't matter what walls you knock out".


exactly, none of the walls are load bearing, it is all supported by the posts and beams

a very simple structural concept, not the most elegant but practical

and thanks Ootai, Davis et al for your kind comments; what we try to create is something we would be happy to live in, the style reflecting our taste to an extent

----------


## BKKBILL

> what we try to create is something we would be happy to live in, the style reflecting our taste to an extent


That being the case this thread is going to just get better and better. :Smile:

----------


## Sailing into trouble

Andy, we hear and see so many horror stories about people being accidentally electrocuted, how do you make sure the electrical install is good and safe. Do you have a tried and trusted electrician?

----------


## DrAndy

The builder is using his electrician in this project

I will go around the house with a wet finger to test the work later

----------


## nigelandjan

Nice neat bit of blockwork in there Doc ,,, good to see theyre cracking on with it ,, they seem to do so much work so quickly , but then I suppose you can when you dont have to work through a plethora of health and safety crap.

On the sites in the UK I have to deliver on each day , now we have to have poxy fence around everything ,, I usually stick a full lock on in reverse gear and watch it all disappear down a trench as it gets hooked in the front bumper

----------


## DrAndy

cheers Nigel; that Qcon stuff is much easier and faster to work with, and very easy to cut exactly

Health and Safety?  how does that work?  special flip-flops?   a wooly hat stuffed with styrofoam?

----------


## DrAndy

so, they have started building the roofs for the new rooms

this is the upstairs kitchen




another view of the same, just painting it rusty




This will be the upstairs main bedroom at the front of the house

you can see, more or less, where the roof will be  (using the existing rear support)




and the first signs of a kitchen - we have had the kitchen cabinet doors delivered today so they can be fitted exactly in place

----------


## benlovesnuk

Hi, Dr.A as you are building in the centre on town, knocking down and building up around close to other houses, did you need permission for this? How have the neighbours been?
Are there any restrictions building back up?

Thanks looking good.

----------


## helge

> Qcon stuff is much easier and faster to work with


You use the 'special Qcon glue' ?

Bloody strong stuff and hard to remove from where not "needed"  :Smile:

----------


## DrAndy

> Hi, Dr.A as you are building in the centre on town, knocking down and building up around close to other houses, did you need permission for this? How have the neighbours been?
> Are there any restrictions building back up?
> 
> Thanks looking good.



This is a renovation so no planning regs apply; it is sometimes a good idea to get a bit of paper from the local gov. approving your works, esp if the neighbours are a pain

we have been lucky in that most of them are out during the day when the noise is going on, so no complaints...so far

----------


## DrAndy

> You use the 'special Qcon glue' ?


not me, but they might

----------


## Eliminator

I would have done a bit more cleanup on the walls before erecting any cabinets. It's your place but I think the paint would stick better than going over all that mold.

----------


## DrAndy

yes, Elim, that will be the painter's job; he uses some special algae killer first

mind you, I get the point it would be easier to do before any cabinets are put in place

so, here is the basic roof structure completed for the front bedroom



these are the kitchen cabinet door sets, nice old teak

I will give them some teak oil when in place






The new build!  this will be the side entrance for the upstairs flat. There will be the main door where the guy is, then you come into the lobby, through the arch and up the stairs

At this end there will be a door leading to a small patio



This is the kitchen roof at the back  - the first tile goes up

----------


## DrAndy

I know this is not really the most exciting part of the project, but it is progress

here is a pic of the front upstairs bedroom, roofed and being blocked in

of course, we specified QCon, and there were lots stacked, but the worker used normal blocks as the boss was away for the morning....sigh, never mind




The side entrance is roofed



Some outside plumbing excitement





The upstairs kitchen is roofed. The best part of the roof is that, for the bank, is stage one. We were sitting in the cafe at the end of the soi when a nice big SUV pulled in, out jumped the woman from the bank, took 2 pictures, jumped back in and off they went. They charge B800 for that check, and they missed the kitchen roof! Anyway, they will put some money in the bank tomorrow, as promised




The upstairs bedroom from inside, and our favourite woman worker





The existing roof is interesting in that they used cement tiles to the front and cement board tiles to the rear; I suppose that made the houses look posher when they were originally viewed






The old upstairs bathroom; this has a cement fillet running around. We will just infill and get a nice flat floor, then tile. It will make a small step UP into the bathroom but you have to make some compromises!

----------


## Thetyim

What's the green pipe for ?

----------


## aging one

> It will make a small step UP into the bathroom but you have to make some compromises!


Make a sign. I broke a toe on a bathroom fitting like that. Its not natural.

----------


## DrAndy

> What's the green pipe for ?


hot water; we will have a multipoint water heater feeding the bathroom sink, shower and the kitchen sink

----------


## DrAndy

> Make a sign. I broke a toe on a bathroom fitting like that. Its not natural.


oh dear

I made a sign just now (crossed fingers behind my back)

anyway, I bet you only did it once!

----------


## BKKBILL

See your using PPR fusion welded hot water pipe same as we did on our last build. Seems to be good stuff.

----------


## DrAndy

^ yes, cheaper than copper and much easier to use, if you have the correct tool

we used that in the apartment block too

----------


## Eliminator

I can't understand why they don't clean up the crap BEFORE they do any plumbing. At least get out of the way would be my thought. TIT I guess.

----------


## DrAndy

I suppose they are going to make more crap.....

they have taken away lots of bags of rubbish from their works so far.

They will have to clean that area before any work starts there anyway

----------


## Eliminator

I understand there making NEW crap everyday but, why not get rid of the OLD shit BEFORE trying to run NEW piping?

----------


## helge

> It will make a small step UP into the bathroom but you have to make some compromises!


Bad compromise

You know thais, their water jars, and their refilling the water supply

"Oops !! I forgot I had the water running"

At least let the floor fall to the drain

Or put in a doorstep,and seal it;  that'll give you an idea how submariners live  :Smile:

----------


## DrAndy

> I understand there making NEW crap everyday but, why not get rid of the OLD shit BEFORE trying to run NEW piping?



don't worry, Elim

It will all work out in the end

I too would prefer a clean working environment, safer and healthier as well as nicer

Luckily I am not doing the work

----------


## DrAndy

> At least let the floor fall to the drain


of course that will be done, quite normal

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> I too would prefer a clean working environment, safer and healthier as well as nicer
> 
> Luckily I am not doing the work


Drove me nuts when we built our house. Eventually, my wife kicked me off of her building site. And, order did eventually develop from squalor and chaos.....

----------


## DrAndy

We can have a look at the existing drains, if you like

here is the new box to take all the grey water from the house (shower, kitchen, basins etc)




this will run into the existing drain at the back, which needs a little cleaning out




luckily the pipe is quite a large size so is not completely blocked


This is a pic of the pipe inside - you can just see some light at the end of the tunnel


there is another access at the other end, so it should be fairly easy to clean out




They have fitted the kitchen door sets

We intend to make the kitchen in a more simple manner rather than the horrible poured concrete top

on those supports we will just lay a piece of 1" Viva board, or similar

we then will put the granite tiles on top of that

whilst that may not have the structural strength of the poured cement top, it will be strong enough to take some clumsy workman standing on it

In addition, we do not have to decide the exact placement of sink and hobs yet, as we would need to with cement (although we do know)



some of the neat wiring in the roof space....

I think they will tuck it away!




and another mistake in the same bedroom, the woman assuming we wanted a window at the side, then being told too late we didn't

so the blockwork is a bit weaker than normal, but they have put bits of iron in for strength

----------


## DrAndy

> Drove me nuts when we built our house. Eventually, my wife kicked me off of her building site. And, order did eventually develop from squalor and chaos.....


yep, I am the same as you and Elim, I like a clean working area and always leave the last few minutes of the day cleaning up

----------


## Yasojack

All looking good, Andy so no major hiccups yet, lucky you.

----------


## KiCanCummins

> We can have a look at the existing drains, if you like
> 
> here is the new box to take all the grey water from the house (shower, kitchen, basins etc)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this will run into the existing drain at the back, which needs a little cleaning out
> 
> ...


Dr Andy,

Just looking at the last picture and the row of blocks, the 6 bottom Qcon blocks on the divider wall that we can see. You now have a weak point on joint of those 6 bottom blocks the 1/2 size should have been all at the outer end of the wall now you have a week point at the line of blocks one block in from the exterior wall (hope you can see what I mean).
I hope thy have used the proper Qcon "Glue" er mortar.
It might need some reinforcement across that line, at least in the west it would.!!!

What do you think?

KCC

----------


## DrAndy

^ yes, I noted that in my post




> and another mistake in the same bedroom, the woman assuming we wanted a window at the side, then being told too late we didn't  so the blockwork is a bit weaker than normal, but they have put bits of iron in for strength


I couldn't be bothered to make them redo it

as the wall is not load bearing it should be Ok unless there is a severe earthquake

----------


## KiCanCummins

> ^ yes, I noted that in my post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> ...


Sorry Doctor!!!

I thought you were referring to the blocks on the outside wall. If you OK with it then that's all that matters.

KCC

----------


## rickschoppers

> I had a second house here before I finally managed to sell it. It was newly renovated by me, and a nice-looking one-story house on a small lot in a great location. Three bedrooms, decent size living room, dining room and kitchen, one bath, water tank. Problem was that since there are no foreigners down here, I ended up renting it to Flips. In 5 years renting it, I had one good year (older American guy with Flip wife). Every single Flip, without exception, was a hassle - from having to chase down the rent every month, to trashing the place, to skipping out in the night, to paying the bills with rubber checks, etc, etc. Finally, I fixed it up (again) and let it sit empty for 18 months until I finally unloaded it. The rent income just wasn't worth the never-ending bullshit.


Philippines vs Thailand not same same.

----------


## rickschoppers

Looking good Dr. A. I am now back in the US to work and make some money so that I can do a similar project to yours. This means I have given up on the apartment idea and I look forward to your progress.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> 
> I had a second house here before I finally managed to sell it. It was newly renovated by me, and a nice-looking one-story house on a small lot in a great location. Three bedrooms, decent size living room, dining room and kitchen, one bath, water tank. Problem was that since there are no foreigners down here, I ended up renting it to Flips. In 5 years renting it, I had one good year (older American guy with Flip wife). Every single Flip, without exception, was a hassle - from having to chase down the rent every month, to trashing the place, to skipping out in the night, to paying the bills with rubber checks, etc, etc. Finally, I fixed it up (again) and let it sit empty for 18 months until I finally unloaded it. The rent income just wasn't worth the never-ending bullshit.
> 
> 
> Philippines vs Thailand not same same.


I defer to Andy. I have never had a rental property other than this house, which was never intended to be a rental property, but was just a house that I no longer needed so I rented it until I could sell it. But, from all accounts from friends in Thailand, here, and the US, the lower end the rental property and the cheaper the rent, the more problems you have with damage, destruction, and non-payment of rent/bills. Over to the slumlords...........

----------


## DrAndy

cheers Rick

Davis, renting out property is always a risk, you just have to try and minimise that

Check out your tenants, provide decent accomodation for a reasonable price, keep everyone happy

----------


## DrAndy

The new wall for the front bedroom being rendered

and the new wiring




The downstairs bathroom; we demolished the existing wall and will rebuild nearly to the plastic tie hanging down. The lavatory will sit with the cistern against the new wall and lots of extra space created

What was a tiny cramped bathroom becomes acceptable




The frames for the bedroom sliding doors; these have worked out quite expensive, so maybe the space they save is not worth it



a view down the hallway...looking good!




Top view of the patio for Eliminator

sad that the plants were blown down in last weeks storm, they made a nice screen




The downstairs kitchen, rejigged





The only woman worker

she has been in the building trade for years; when she started she earned B8 a day

----------


## Eliminator

Thanks for the view, I do wish you all the best in your project.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> The only woman worker


Where?

----------


## DrAndy

don't get all sexist

not all Thai women are beautiful and cute like our wives

----------


## Eliminator

> don't get all sexist
> 
> not all Thai women are beautiful and cute like our wives


Too true, you are a smart man. 




Does your wife read this forum? 555

----------


## nigelandjan

Comin on Doc ,, looks a muckin fuddle in some pics but sure it will all come together soon

----------


## DrAndy

> Does your wife read this forum? 555


of course, she likes to see her work in pictures and peoples' thoughts on the build







> Comin on Doc ,, looks a muckin fuddle in some pics but sure it will all come together soon


yes, it is still in that state of disarray any rebuild goes through

I went there just now and things are slowly progressing, although there are only three workers

the boss said that if he doesn't finish within the specified two months then he will lose money - I doubt it but time is money and his profit will be reduced

----------


## DrAndy

Work continues, slowly but surely

The downstairs bathroom has had the wall moved 




from the inside, the toilet cistern will sit against the new wall. Whilst only about 50cm has been gained, the bathroom now can be designed so that it will not feel cramped, and the shower water will not wet everything in there




The upstairs bathroom has also been rejigged

The shower moved to the neighbours wall; we couldn't dig holes for the pipes in that wall, so we built up an extra row of bricks inside the shower enclosure

The toilet will be rotated!





a view down to the kitchen, the arch has yet to be cut




This small outside roof really is an eyesore, so we will lift it and make the underside  match the rest

the neighbour has done that and it looks much better

we will probably bring the roof right across to hide the other roof side



the neighbour






the funny bit about that is that the electrician bet the builder B100 that we would ask him to do that

builder was a bit sour-faced!

----------


## rickschoppers

Dr. A, have you done this is a past life, or did you gain experience by building your houses? Your apartments in the city are very nice and I would think these will be similar in quality and finish.

I may have to come over and pick your brain when I return and look into building something similar. :Smile: 

Cheers

----------


## nigelandjan

Is that such a good idea to put an arch into the kitchen Doc ??  you know what the Thais are like with they're cooking smells .

Allways makes me laugh when my missus frys up her dried squid , she runs around the bloody bungalow in blind panic opening doors and windows , then even worries about the neighbours smelling it ,, I dont like the smell , but I accept it as part of her way , if shes happy then I am  :Smile:

----------


## DrAndy

> Dr. A, have you done this is a past life, or did you gain experience by building your houses? Your apartments in the city are very nice and I would think these will be similar in quality and finish.


I had to do a lot of jobs with my first house way back, as I had no money to pay builders. I had a kind friend who helped me learn all sorts of basic skills

from that, I have renovated several houses over the years, with my own designs, and often doing a lot of the work myself

The two houses in Thailand which are subject of threads are the first houses I have ever designed and built from scratch; both are good to live in so I am pleased with them




> I may have to come over and pick your brain when I return and look into building something similar.


No problem, our consultancy fees are reasonable

----------


## DrAndy

> Is that such a good idea to put an arch into the kitchen Doc ?? you know what the Thais are like with they're cooking smells .


Should be fine as I will not be living there!

and there will be enough ventilation in the kitchen

----------


## DrAndy

next...this is the frame for the bedroom sliding doors

essentially a spacesaver but a bit costly





from the inside of the bedroom; the doors will slide to each side inside and, yes, the electric points and switch will have to be moved to the adjacent wall



the upstairs kitchen basically set up ready for the doors and top




the view out of that kitchen window

a lot were blown down last week




and the view from further in



seems slow at the moment but things are getting there

----------


## DrAndy

today we have a full crew, and the two electricians (in red)

apologies for the quality of the shots





This is the upstairs kitchen  with a new window

actually  an old window revamped, then turned 90 degrees; the louvres will have to be moved!





the front downstairs bedroom, walls complete. The stairs will not be visible as a new wall will be built seperating the two areas

The downstairs had a suspended ceiling which we have removed (well, the bit that hadn't fallen down already). We intend to just render the exposed concrete giving higher ceilings





The upstairs kitchen will have a similar window to the other kitchen






The electricians are working hard, lots of new wires and they were running around testing the various points and lights

They leave the exposed wires with a small hook on each end then take a light bulb with similarly hooked wires and put the two together.....

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Very nice - starting to look like something.

----------


## DrAndy

cheers Davis

it is always nice to go there and see it all coming together

should be more  dramatic soon, lots of Gyproc has arrived on site

----------


## KiCanCummins

Doctor,

I am always amazed at the way Thai's go about building, one guy puts up wall that is all he knows how, next guy comes and removes 1/3rd of wall for window, Next electrician comes and removes structural integrity of wall when he puts in conduit for wiring, 1st guy has top come back and slap mortar over conduit to cover it up. (from my experience here in LOS)

I guess I see things differently as I was a project manager in my last life (We where called "Project Planning & Control", that was the official name).

Its a pity that there are no proper trade schools any more, even in the west we have gotten rid of them, a crying shame. I am proud to say that I served as an apprentice in ship and boat building, wooden boats. Not that I did that in my later career. But it stood me in good stead for the rest of my working life.

KC

----------


## DrAndy

> I am always amazed at the way Thai's go about building, one guy puts up wall that is all he knows how, next guy comes and removes 1/3rd of wall for window, Next electrician comes and removes structural integrity of wall when he puts in conduit for wiring, 1st guy has top come back and slap mortar over conduit to cover it up. (from my experience here in LOS)


not in my experience

any doors and windows are built into the new walls

and yes, if a conduit needs to be cut in, the electrician will do that, depending on the thickness and strength of the wall. We will not be cutting into any shared walls as we don't want to upset the neighbours by making any holes!

the final render is not usually applied until all the work on the wall has finished

the only times I have seen any different is when the client/owner has changed his mind and decided he needs a window that was not on the building plan, for instance

----------


## DrAndy

> Its a pity that there are no proper trade schools any more


well, this building is situated very near a Technical school where most of the trades are taught. The electrician I use has his son there and is very happy at the skills he is learning

----------


## Storekeeper

Have been planning an eventual remodel of the house in Pattaya I told you about Dr Andy ... but I think your thread has me thinking about some different ideas now ... like how to brighten up the interior. I'm thinking I'll have to place some sort of window opening in the roof.

----------


## DrAndy

Yep, if you don't have the option of a window in the wall, then a roof opening can be good; you have to be careful about heat though if that roof is southerly facing

----------


## rickschoppers

^
What about water leakage?

----------


## Malicious

^consult an expert, easy enough to do with the correct design criteria

----------


## DrAndy

Quite often you can just replace the tiles you have with transparent equivalents, then it is easy

you then build a silvered box down to the ceiling to transmit the light

if you have to make a hole and put a window frame in, then you have to be careful about leakage

----------


## DrAndy

at last, the ceiling Gyproc boards are going in

They give a better feeling for what the rooms will be like

this is the back bedroom upstairs




the hallway




and the front living room





meanwhile downstairs they are rendering the walls, and the beams eventually





and we now have a semi-secure storeroom so we can buy anything in advance 

this will hopefully cut out any delays due to the materials not being available

----------


## Exige

> today we have a full crew, and the two electricians (in red)
> 
> apologies for the quality of the shots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does your team of builders sleep on the premises after work or do they vacate and return to their homes?

I currently have at least 6 workers sleeping over at my project.  :Sad:  (prolly a scam too )

----------


## DrAndy

yes, that is the best of the scams

but we only have one who stays there, and he doesn't even get paid as a security guard!

he sleeps in a tent which keeps most of the dust out

----------


## Exige

> but we only have one who stays there, and he doesn't even get paid as a security guard!


Plenty of security guards about but they don't sleep. At least not the ones on the night shift.



> he sleeps in a tent which keeps most of the dust out


Both houses on the property is full of those tents. :Sad:

----------


## DrAndy

more progress

they have moved downstairs again

here is the front bedroom ready for rendering

we will keep the louvre window and just fit new screens




The kitchen, similar to the other one

this is quite a bright room now, with the two windows and the double doors opening to the patio




the back bedroom, which could also be used as a living space as it will be connected to the breakfast room with sliding doors

the pipes area will have a false ceiling, the rest will be rendered directly



The upstairs kitchen having the sloping ceiling fitted





The front bedroom ready for the Gyproc



the big tiles will start to be laid upstairs tomorrow, as long as the ceilings are finished

----------


## Eliminator

Are you getting rid of the louvered windows and what is the cost to do a section like above? Looking good so far. Thanks for the pictorial.

----------


## DrAndy

^ no, we will keep the louvres, they need a good clean though

Louvres have the big advantage that they fully open the window space and take up little room

and they are already exist

we have considered putting in sliding windows, they cut the opening by half

or frame type windows but they need to be wide open for good airflow

----------


## DrAndy

> what is the cost to do a section like above?


sorry, not clear, what section?

----------


## Eliminator

[quote=Eliminator;2365289]

In the picture is 2 louvered windows, I'm trying to find out how much to put in sliding windows in that kind of space. Been here for a few years and figure most townhouses are built to ABOUT the same specs. 

 I got in too late to know about a LOT of things that are built Thai way. I've got Thai size shitters ( there is a difference in how tall it is and the size of the seat) and when I flush the the top or bottom one the other one bubbles up. 

The reason I don't like louvers is for security, I've helped my neighbors get into to their places when they've lost their keys and it's too easy to get in with louvers even with so called GUARD RAILS.

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## DrAndy

I will know the price when we get some new windows later on

but sliding windows are just as easy to break into as louvres, so you need some bars to stop anyone getting in if the window is in a vulnerable place. I am not sure how you would manage to break into my window without a lot of time and effort

as for your bubbling toilets, you need an air outlet on your septic tank to let the pressure out when you flush

they look a bit better but you only get half the ventilation

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## Exige

> o you need some bars to stop anyone getting in if the window is in a vulnerable place.


I would think twice about living in an area that requires bars on the windows....

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## DrAndy

well, that is Thailand

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## Exige

Parts of Thailand

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## Norton

> The front bedroom ready for the Gyproc


Do you plan to insulate between Gyproc and roof tiles?

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## terry57

> I would think twice about living in an area that requires bars on the windows....


The biggest problems with bars on windows and doors is when a place has a fire. People usually die as they cant get out.

Anyway Doc, love your builds, there stimulating, interesting and making you money.

How much can you rent your gaff for If you don't mind me asking ? 

Just been up there and looked at a brand new 1 bedroom condo near the Mercure Hotel that had a pool and gym for 14 K. 

Not to bad for the quality I thought but many small apartments going for 5K.

Depends what one wants innit.

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## terry57

> well, that is Thailand


Doc, you are the man to ask considering you live in Chiang Mai.

Do you consider it essential to have bars on the windows and is there much home invasion up there ?

Thanks.

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## DrAndy

> How much can you rent your gaff for If you don't mind me asking ?


which gaff, Terry?

our 1 bed apartments  in the  block go from B8000 to B12000, depending 

we will have two 2 bed maisonettes soon for B15000 each

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## DrAndy

> Do you consider it essential to have bars on the windows and is there much home invasion up there ?


no, it is not a big problem but it is just prudent to have bars on easily accessed windows

then you can leave them open for air without worrying

I have seen people put bars on windows you couldn't get to without a ladder which seems strange

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## DrAndy

today's progress

but first for those of faint heart


They cleared a lot of rubbish out today, and I carted a lot of useful doors, windows, screens and grills away yesterday, but it still looks like this

the future garden area for the upstairs flat



The entrance hall for the flat, now concreted and ready




They have started the tiling, as promised, and are cracking on




The upstairs kitchen has caught up with the downstairs one




and this is the worker's/security guard's accomodation

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## DrAndy

another day, another bag of cement


the downstairs kitchen being rendered



I like to this, always exciting to get the tiles down. They have finished the front bedroom, the living room and are now moving towards the kitchen




which is not being worked on, everyone has moved downstairs, rendering this and that. The bathroom wall that was moved has been rendered too

I really like the outlook from here - peaceful and green




The new small window in that bathroom; it makes a monster difference, so light now and before it was really gloomy. I don't know why they never had one fitted!




the same window from the outside, as well as the new kitchen window and the future triangular stairs window

all these new windows really light up the place and change the character to somewhere more cheerful





and the new top kitchen window

I suppose all the row houses were built to the same specs; this being the end one didn't make any difference; the architect just did not add any windows on the end wall

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## lom

> I suppose all the row houses were built to the same specs; this being the end one didn't make any difference; the architect just did not add any windows on the end wall



You should find a new plumber for the next project, one that has attended the 45 degree bend class. They are hard to find but they do exist.

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## Thetyim

Have to agree with that.
I had to pull out a waste pipe that was blocked last week.
The horizontal bit was only half a metre but that's where it was blocked.

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## DrAndy

Yes, especially from the kitchen, lots of fats can build up

we have had a word, thanks for your input

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## DrAndy

The lobby wall is being built - this will be the entrance to the upstairs flat

you come in on the LHS, go into the lobby then through the arch (hidden) behind the red shirt




then you come through the arch and up the stairs. The new column is where the wall separating the two flats will  be



A wifey design feature; she comes along and makes these decisions when I am not there. She knows I don't really like decoration for its own sake




and the tiling is getting close to finishing upstairs, around another 7 sq m left

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## draco888

The wifey design feature, what's it going to be? A tiger flap?

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## nigelandjan

I'm sure the end result will look good Doc ,, its just they will work in such a mukin fuddle all the time.

I know Thai logic so I know whatever we say will not ever change one jot , because that is the way they do things ,, but it does make you wonder sometimes if they were to work in a more orderly clean + tidy fashion

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## helge

So..
Do your workers cover the tiles, when the priming/painting takes place, or do they scrape the stains off afterwards ?

Most of the stains, that is

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## DrAndy

> The wifey design feature, what's it going to be? A tiger flap?


just a decoration to break up the monotony of concrete walls

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## DrAndy

> Do your workers cover the tiles, when the priming/painting takes place, or do they scrape the stains off afterwards ?


they will cover the tiles, of course

and, of course, the cover will not be big enough, or will get moved

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## DrAndy

> its just they will work in such a mukin fuddle all the time.





> if they were to work in a more orderly clean + tidy fashion



actually Nigel, they are working in a quite clean environment

they keep loading the truck with bags of rubble etc and off it goes

that side passage is not the working environment yet, so they haven't bothered with it 

it is acting as a sort of storage area for anything that might come in useful too

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## Norton

> Do you plan to insulate between Gyproc and roof tiles?


Apparently not. :Smile:

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## the dogcatcher

Looks cute.
What are the costs so far?

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## DrAndy

> Apparently not.


sorry, Norton, did I miss your question?

the Gyproc has *foil backing*, the roof has quite a large semi-ventilated space above the boards, so that should be enough

if not, then it will be fairly easy to get up into the space and roll out some extra insulation

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## DrAndy

> Looks cute.
> What are the costs so far?



about B300K including the labour so far

we have budgeted for 500K total, hopefully including furniture (we have already quite a bit waiting)

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## DrAndy

The progress today was nice; they are working on the new side entrance

from the front, with a new window (reclaimed) and the entrance area

as previously posted, that roof will be changed and the low wall moved forward about a metere




from the side; the entrance door. The new lobby will be tiled in terracotta




inside the new lobby, showing the door to the small patio/garden





from the garden, the back of the lobby

I see they have delivered the bamboo scaffolding for the roof access and painting







from the downstairs flat; the stairs will not be visible as a wall will be built continuing the one just constructed. Note the curve we decided on, it makes coming in flow nicely




from the upstairs, the curve can be easily seen. Taking off the sharp corners makes a change to the feel of the area (that is one of the principles of Feng Shui). 

Something that costs nothing extra but makes a big difference




down the stairs and through the arch





That area is coming together well, and has a good feel to it

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## DrAndy

and a couple of other extras

the tiling is just about complete upstairs and looks good



the lights have nearly all been fitted upstairs

the painters will paint the ceilings soon

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## rickschoppers

_"we have budgeted for 500K total, hopefully including furniture (we have already quite a bit waiting)"_

Very good result for this amount of investment.

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## DrAndy

I hope so

Let's see how the budget matches reality!

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## DrAndy

a mixed bag today, lots of different jobs going on

the quarry tiles have arrived; these are for the back patio and the upstairs entrance lobby





The downstairs bathroom is now being tiled



worth two pics



the rendering of the lobby has started




The first wall to be sealed prior to painting; it stinks




upstairs tiling nearly complete



workers lunch area




this wall is to be demolished and moved into the new position, marked by the block and string

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## ootai

Dr Andy
I must say that I really do like the curved start leading to the stairs.

Just from a curiosity point of view, what or how do you intend to seal the  join between the lobby roof and the wall.  In the pictures in post #203 there appears to be quite a gap.

I am also impressed by the transformation taking place, very nice.

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## DrAndy

> I must say that I really do like the curved start leading to the stairs.


thanks, it has worked well

a good example of design making a place look better, without any extra cost


as for the gap, when the ceiling goes up, that will seal the roof area off


the gap will then be closed with cement board as eaves

I might even get a pic

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## Rural Surin

Extensive project coming along nicely, Andy. :Smile: 

Keen updates.

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## helge

> The first wall to be sealed prior to painting; it stinks


Ah; not the water based primer ?

I was lured into buying that stuff once

Open it and closed it immidiately

No way I could use that indoors

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## DrAndy

I have used it before and it is excellent - old paint that was crumbly and dusty was sealed and made firm. Those outside walls are still looking good 7 years on

using it indoors is a pain, luckily I am not there most of the time; the workers have rigged up a fan system to get rid of the worst smell

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## helge

They'll get rid of a few braincells aswell  :Smile: 

Yes, it's probably good. We used it too up till some 35 years ago, and then the industry was forced to develop the water based one

Bloody good that is. Don't stain with that one. It sticks

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## DrAndy

> We used it too up till some 35 years ago, and then the industry was forced to develop the water based one


I suppose H&S was worried about the free "high" people were getting

luckily, almost all the walls that need treating with that stuff are outside; only in the new extension areas are there any that need it (they were outside walls)

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## DrAndy

some more work done

the downstairs bathroom tiled...not the optimum placement of tiles but OK




except they did try to get away with this gap filled up; they will cut strips of tile to fit or they will be in trouble



the back passage, still a mess, but the new lobby is being rendered




the rear patio, now almost clear and scaffolding erected to access the roof, plus painting later




the downstairs hall, being painted 1st coat




the curved wall now ready to paint




the upstairs hall being painted





the upstairs bathroom, moving the toilet pan and tiling



the front living room been painted 1st coat





everyone quite busy; this is also a happy bunch of workers, which is nice

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## terry57

Coming on well Doc, got a fine group of tradesman there by the looks of things.

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## Loy Toy

> the back passage, still a mess,


It only gets more messy as you get older Doc.  :Smile: 

Nice thread, very informative and it looks like whoever is in charge looks like they know what they are doing.

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## DrAndy

Yes, LT, I left that in as a bait

should have been side passage but...

and thanks for your and Terry's kind remarks,

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## DrAndy

some days I have to scrape up some progress pics

here is a man painting the ceiling



They have started on the hallway too



This is a new window let into the side of the house; it makes a big difference to the staircase lighting. The bars are to give a sense of security, there will be glass too



There will be a corresponding window built into this area too, just above the handrail, to let light into the passage; that will have etched glass for privacy

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## DrAndy

The tilers have been busy

the downstairs bathroom is now the official workers toilet, everything works, even the shower

a good test for the system as we are just using the old septic tank without alterations



the little balcony has been tiled; this was a big problem before. The water would sit in it and not run out, then it would leak through to below. Access was almost impossible due to there only being a window with bars



The upstairs bathroom nearly finished tiling too

quite a neat feature





in the back patio, they are cutting a new access to the storm drain to remove all the old earth and clean it properly. This drain is being used for all the "grey" water waste (kitchens, showers etc), and the septic tank outlet




the upstairs kitchen splashback being tiled: I think that is a bit premature so I hope they have got their calculations correct for the height as the worktop needs to slide under. I think 4 tiles would be a better height

a problem with the cupboard - they have built it to slightly over 60 cm wide when my diagram shows it needs 58 cm. I wanted to just buy the 60cm wide tiles to fit

Now I will have to make a special order of 63 cm tiles so that had better be done soon

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## nigelandjan

Just a thought ,, is there a door going into the curved entrance ?? 

I'm guessing the answer is yes and it opens inwardly ,, is it gonna leave enuf room to get furniture like wardrobes and beds in ? 

Just a thought

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## DrAndy

no, Nigel, that is a necessary thought

we couldn't get one wardrobe into the back flat in the apartment block and they had to take it away and make it smaller!  (no extra cost - can you imagine that being done by John Lewis?)

but this curved area is quite wide and high, and it has  a large arched entrance. The only door to the stairs is the main front door, then it is all open

if it goes through the door it will go upstairs (crossed fingers)

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## nigelandjan

I know Thais get things done ( eventually ) but I cant help thinking to myself as I view the pics as I have said before , what a muddle to work in ,, you have those nice green tiles appearing all of a sudden glued on above an imaginary worktop finished height , not even finished tiling , someone just banged a few up ! Cracks me up they do .

I am not criticising or taking the piss , it just amazes me the way they work .
I have fitted 6 kitchens in my own homes over the years and 2 in other peoples homes and TBH ,, I just have to work in a clean methodical way. 


Surely it would be easier for them to get the worktop in place then tile to the worktop ?  but never mind  TIT !  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

yes, I agree, I am not sure why they couldn't wait for the worktop to be fitted, I just hope the Viva board and granite slide under  without problem

they stopped working as it was time to go home

I think the tiling crew are a separate bunch, so want to get all the tiling done in one go. They couldn't work in the bathroom any more so moved to the kitchen to finish the day

To be fair, this is not like just fitting a kitchen, they have several jobs going on at the same time and need to work around each other. They do keep the mess to a reasonable level

Monday will be fun

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## DrAndy

> you have those nice green tiles appearing all of a sudden glued on above an imaginary worktop finished height


I have made them take them off now and wait for the Viva board and stone to be fitted, then they can sit them on top

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## helge

> it just amazes me the way they work


Tilers in Thailand do not work by the 'Western basic rules of tiling'

Otherwise Andy wouldn't have the 'filled' gab in the toilet floor

Seems to me they never measure out a centre line to begin from

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## DrAndy

today was a nice day

they have knocked down the stupid little wall and are rebuilding it in a better place

now we will be able to fit the tank and pump in easily




the entrance lobby has been rendered and painted first coat, looks good






The frames for the stair wall have been made; one is for a cupboard under the stairs, the other for a window to let light through

I cannot stress aagain how important natural light is in any development - increase it as much as possible, always bearing in mind the sun's heat




the window above; the block wall will be built tomorrow, filling the whole space




The upstairs shower cubicle has worked out nicely; The back wall has been brought forward so the plumbing could be hidden - we did not want to risk going through into the neighbours

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## DrAndy

The tilers are now the renderers, and have started doing the various beams and ceilings




The kitchens have had the Viva board cut and fitted. I have measured the sizes and will confirm with the stone masons tomorrow





another shot of rendered beams; we decided to make them rounded for a softer look





a view through the painted upstairs




fitting cement board to close the gap between roof and tile

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## DrAndy

> what or how do you intend to seal the join between the lobby roof and the wall. In the pictures in post #203 there appears to be quite a gap.


the gap is left inside

the ceiling will hide it when fitted

the outside is closed with cement board as in the pic from the previous post

you then get some ventilation of the roof space above the false ceiling

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## ootai

DrA
I apologise for not making my question 100% clear and thank you for your response but I actually meant the gap between the entrance roof and the wall going up ti the second floor. The sheets of ??? that make up the roof of the entrance butt up against the wall that goes up to the second floor and I assumme that some form of angled sheet would be somehow fixed to the wall and over the top of the roof sheets.
Its hard to explain something that you know f#*k all about but I hope you get my drift.  I am interested mainly in how your plan to get a water tight seal against the wall as if you got heavy driving rain it could leak thropugh the gap and into the entrance hall.
Just to finish Ilike the arches in the picture you titled "a view through painted upstairs". Can't believe its the same place that you started with.

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## DrAndy

aha ^   the gap at the top of the roof sheets!





what is normally done is run a fillet of cement all the way along to use as a flashing. That is OK if it is done well and doesn't crack


the best way is to cut a groove in the wall just above the tiles and slot in one of the bitumen based rolls, about 10cm wide, and press down onto the tiles

then apply the fillet; hopefully the bitumen strip will stop any water ingress if the cement does crack

In the UK the best flashing is made of lead

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## DrAndy

> Just to finish I like the arches in the picture you titled "a view through painted upstairs". Can't believe its the same place that you started with.


yes, the change is dramatic and it ain't finished yet!

thanks

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## rickschoppers

> Originally Posted by ootai
> 
> Just to finish I like the arches in the picture you titled "a view through painted upstairs". Can't believe its the same place that you started with.
> 
> 
> yes, the change is dramatic and it ain't finished yet!
> 
> thanks


Looking very nice. Are there any other buildings close to yours for sale? Maybe we can start an upmarket area for rentals.

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## DrAndy

the one opposite just sold out of the bank for b1.5m; he is instantly putting it back on the market for B1.9, and those houses are about half the size of mine!

there is an empty one on my side but I don't know if for sale

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## DrAndy

The carpenter (who is also the tiler and renderer) has been busy

The new (old) front door for upstairs is being fitted



The new wall separating the two flats is rendered




The back double doors to the patio are being fitted



the kitchen cabinet doors have been fitted





we have a half plumbed in sink



and a towel rail, paper holder, bumwasher

just like a real flat!

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## DrAndy

and

they have filled in the awful 70's dividing wall

the neighbour kindly agreed



closed off the roof, with slotted board to help ventilation




fitted the back door to the patio, for the upstairs flat






and this is the cement fillet that was being discussed

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## DrAndy

hooray!

the electrics are working

the kitchen stone worktops have arrived

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## terry57

brilliant stuff doc.

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## Loombucket

Looking really good now. I like many of the design features, that set it apart from 'just another conversion'. Can't wait to see it furnished and ready to go.

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## Mozzbie47

^^^ They what

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## nigelandjan

Allways enjoy the picture build threads ,, hope to be doing my first one later this year if all goes to plan ,, talking of which I have just finalised my plans for the architect to render into something  build able  :Smile: 

Keep the pics coming ,, looking forward to the nice clean tidy finish

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## rickschoppers

Nigel, go ahead and start your build thread if you have pics of land and area to show. You are not that far away from starting the build and I look forward to seeing your progress. Where did you say you will be building?

Sorry Doc, didn't mean to interrupt your thread. Everything is looking good so far and you should be renting soon.

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## snakeeyes

The roof with the slotted ventilation will this be a problem in the future with ants and other creepy crawlies , I would have thought the house would be sealed to stop the invasion of creepy crawlies which can be a bad problem ,  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

^ Not many creepy crawlies will want to live up there, but they are welcome to try

It is a fairly standard way of finishing the eaves; the old fashioned way is with strips of wood

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## DrAndy

> looking forward to the nice clean tidy finish


me too, and your new build thread




> Sorry Doc


no problem, these things happen

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## Thetyim

> Not many creepy crawlies will want to live up there


I think the roof space gets too warm for most creepy crawlies

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## the dogcatcher

I'd like to say that the basic structure of the house looks really solid.
A good starting point for any project.
I learned my lesson the hard way.

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## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> Not many creepy crawlies will want to live up there
> 
> 
> I think the roof space gets too warm for most creepy crawlies



it does, as long as it is not damp

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## nigelandjan

> me too, and your new build thread


Yea for sure I got real itchy feet now ,, but its gonna be October before we see anything I am afraid Doc , it aint gonna be anything on your scale either just a small 1 bed / bath / living kit room with a balcony etc ,, a kinda weekend / occasional visit home , but people like yourself with much build experience will be able to sit back and chuckle ( edit ) give advice  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

of course, if you need any help....

Norton is good with a shovel, and Thetyim is a great bricklayer

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## nigelandjan

^ and I know another who shall remain nameless who is especially good at mixing the muck  :mid:

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## DrAndy

well, raking it a little

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## DrAndy

The stairs are being rendered, so no pics from upstairs until tomorrow

We are setting tiles into the cement render. This latter will be full of little stones that will be polished out, giving a nice texture. They have set an edge protector onto each stair



poor pic but this is the storage cupboard under the stairs





and the kitchen worktop; we have cut the stone to fit in the sink and hob

the tiling has been started again!

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## nigelandjan

^ How do those stone worktops secure down ?  I have never used them but like the look of them , are they just glued down with a product like liquid nails ?

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## DrAndy

If you design the worktop as I did, yes, just stuck onto the Viva board with liquid nails

if the old fashioned method onto a cement top, then they use cement as the tops are never true

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## Dillinger

> How do those stone worktops secure down ?


Gravity I reckon  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

yes, they are very heavy!

a bit more stuff...

the wall has been nicely rendered; this area looks a lot better now, we just need to cement it and place the tank and pump (already ordered)



the doors are being stripped and rubbed down, ready for finishing




as are any windows; that brown paint must have been used everywhere!

n.b. must get the window fixed





another door in progress

the lock on the wrong side is to fool the ghosts




and the garden divider; should be nice with some climbing plants, eventually

Just recycling our old window

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## stevefarang

I don't chime in on this thread, but I do follow it. Looks good Andy.

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## DrAndy

ding dong, Steve calling

thanks, hope you enjoy it

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## the dogcatcher

Chorp!!

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## DrAndy

yes, this is Chorp, our friendly lizard

he hangs around eating flies



he has just changed his skin

I think it is a species of Chameleon





the dividing wall being rendered; the builder decided we liked odd things so stuck the tiles in






a bit of back door action





and fabricating the gutters; this builder does almost all the work himself and doesn't get many trades specialists in

keeps the price down

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## draco888

how's the budget?

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## DrAndy

I can see a few extra expenses looming

extra work beyond the original contract:

1.painting the house and doors  B25k
2.getting the outside areas cemented and tiled  B10k
3.the extra roof area at the front  B15k
4.new windows and various glass B20k

more....    B20k

It looks at the moment we will go over a little but how much is not certain

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## Malicious

^add skirting boards to the list.

All looking good

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## DrAndy

no, none of them gay things

they have a use but not for me

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## jizzybloke

> a bit of back door action


Fnaar fnaar

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## DrAndy

They have started taking down the ugly roof, at last!




The rear patio now being tiled..the scaffolding will be removed!




the ceilings being smoothed




the stairs are being rendered; the cement will be washed off leaving the small pebble effect




the whole crew together today!  not quite a dozen

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## ootai

> the whole crew together today! not quite a dozen


I count 12 is 12 not a dozen?
There's a spare arm behind the two guys on the right, so unless it doesn't had a head I say 12

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## DrAndy

> There's a spare arm behind the two guys on the right, so unless it doesn't had a head I say 12


every crew needs a spare arm, you never know

but looks like you are right

damn, the Dirty Dozen

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## Wizard of Oz

DrAndy, follow your threads with great interest, love the terra cotta tiles, where do you get them from? If I mention terra cotta at "global house" in Surin, they look at me..... and have no idea what terra cotta means. Anyway, looks great.

What I have always wondered, why the Thai kitchen? with the build up stones, rendered and a couple of doors in them. Is it price, is it what people like, lasts longer? I personally find them horrible, but that's me. What is the difference between say an "Ikea" kitchen and the Thai one. Hope you can explain because I don't get it.

Also "security bars" on windows, yes I do understand that it might be safer against people, getting unlawful access to a building, but in case of fire, you're in deep shit if you can't get out. 

Brings me to the next thing, do you install smoke detectors in your building that you rent out? Not knowing the Thai law etc, but what would happen in case of fire. I know that Thai don't care or think about those things, but I do and I wonder. 

I have smoke detectors and large fire extinguishers in every separate part of the buildings on my property, and I just live there with the wife and kid(s) ( and FIL with his rice machine) I don't rent anything out. 

Do you have any? (Western) safety measures in the building(s) you rent out? Or is it every man for himself? Just wondering. Not only if it is according to Thai law or not, but for your own conscience?

I'm not trying to "blame" you or anything, just like to know if it is mandatory by law or there aren't any laws at all and you can do as you like and if there aren't any laws, do you still spend money on safety features.

If I talk to my wife, she would say there is nothing to worry about, yes all good until things go wrong and they need someone to blame.... 

Hope to post the build of my "temporary" living quarters pretty soon, still haven't found all the preps I need for the build of the "real" house, but I'd rather wait and get things perfect, as I want them. It's not going to be "your average" falang house. Just got the access "doors" to the house. But still many things missing, one day I'll have it all and can start. 

Good luck DrAndy, you get things done!

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## stevefarang

From my perspective, a Thai kitchen is usually simpler in arrangement. There is usually a bit of smoke and grease/oil spattering, so it's usually located outside. That's what we are going to do with our house. These kitchens tend to be basic, basically a gas cooker or two for a wok and a counter with running water. We'll put a microwave and fridge outside as well.
We will also have a western style kitchen, and yes I will be looking at Ikea for some inspiration and equipment (especially their storage systems), but it will be inside and probably not used that often. I will be the one probably using it, as I've always had a problem cooking with a wok.
I don't think smoke detectors are mandated by law, at least not for private residences might be different for hotels, rentals and what not. But I will be installing them as well. Might even go with a CO monitor also.
Yes, there will be a fire extinguisher or two in both kitchen areas. I'll also be looking at keeping some upstairs.

I have no answer on the window bars. I've always worried about the ability to get out as well. We will be having a security wall around the house and a couple of dogs (and maybe some geese - mean buggers), so that should help with keeping people out.

----------


## DrAndy

> love the terra cotta tiles, where do you get them from?


there is a supplier on the Mae Rim road out of CM, imported from Vietnam

but the latest batch I have are marked "Cotto" so they should be available in quite a few places, around B400 a sqm






> What I have always wondered, why the Thai kitchen? with the build up stones, rendered and a couple of doors in them. Is it price, is it what people like, lasts longer? I personally find them horrible, but that's me. What is the difference between say an "Ikea" kitchen and the Thai one. Hope you can explain because I don't get it.


They built the ones in my apartments before I had a chance to realise what they were up to, I didn't like the cement top at all, and it was unnecessary

but I wanted the block supports for the top in this project; all those lovely IKEA cabinets are good food for termites and provide lots of hiding places for cockroaches. So, I have the block supports, inset teak door sets and black granite worksurfaces

they work well, and look fine






> Also "security bars" on windows, yes I do understand that it might be safer against people, getting unlawful access to a building, but in case of fire, you're in deep shit if you can't get out.  Brings me to the next thing, do you install smoke detectors in your building that you rent out?


the bars keep people out, and they can keep people in if there is a fire

but there are doors too, at both ends of the building. Upstairs no bars, you can climb out and escape

smoke detectors, no, although they are a good idea, and cheap to install



> Do you have any? (Western) safety measures in the building(s) you rent out?


we have escape corridors on the higher floors in our apartment block, and the roof connects to other buildings

these also have the added bonus of providing light and air to the inside stairwell

----------


## nigelandjan

> but I wanted the block supports for the top in this project; all those lovely IKEA cabinets are good food for termites and provide lots of hiding places for cockroaches. So, I have the block supports, inset teak door sets and black granite worksurfaces


Sounds like a good tip for me to bear in mind later on ,, cheers for that one

----------


## DrAndy

my designs are quite low cost, even to farang

----------


## terry57

Hey Doc, when are you going to have that Gaff ready to rent. ?

I'm interested, 10K a month innit.

----------


## DrAndy

The drain under the neighbours house needs a good clean, but is difficult to reach as they have built on top of it

we will try to get as much out as possible from our end




They are cracking on with the new roof

very exciting as the old one was such an eyesore






the back patio, all tiled and being grouted




another view from downstairs






the upstairs kitchen splashback tiled




party tonight with the crew

my wife's birthday so we are going to treat them

----------


## palexxxx

Another good building thread.  But I've told you that already.

----------


## DrAndy

> Hey Doc, when are you going to have that Gaff ready to rent. ?


hey Terry

you can have one of the apartments for that, as a special needs TD member

big one bed places

these are larger two bed and cost a bit more

----------


## DrAndy

> Another good building thread.  But I've told you that already.



you did, and thanks

----------


## terry57

> hey Terry
> 
> you can have one of the apartments for that, as a special needs TD member
> 
> big one bed places
> 
> these are larger two bed and cost a bit more



I was taking the piss actually regards the 10K as being 2 bed rooms it will go for more than that of course.

I will contact you by PM when I'm ready to rent. Maybe you will have something. 

Thanks Doc.

----------


## DrAndy

maybe...

we are a nice community of pleasant people

would you fit in, especially in the parties on the roof terrace?

----------


## Eliminator

How can any contractor make this mistake? It still bothers me that they can work in the rubble that these guys are working in. You couldn't make ANY kind of REAL measurements with this much trash to work in. The door has to be replaced as the slots have been cut for the hinges or they have to be filled in.

----------


## DrAndy

not a mistake, Elim

that is an old door and it has been fitted the other way to previously used

the inside is different to the outside so we will have to fill in the lock hole

all in a days work

actually, they keep the working areas quite tidy, although they make a mess whilst working

part of the problem is there are several different guys doing different jobs on top of each other, but it is all working out OK

----------


## DrAndy

Just popped over there; for some reason they seem to have a lot of hangovers!

they all look like I feel, but they are getting on with the job

----------


## Eliminator

Sorry to seem negative, it does look good after some work is done but I just couldn't stand all the mess around. Al the best on the project.

----------


## DrAndy

I know Elim, I have learnt to ignore it unless I trip over it

now the only mess I move is something left on the stairs

----------


## DrAndy

today was a good day

some of the windows are in; this one has the wrong glass, my fault, I thought privacy was a good thing but it looks bad. So clear glass in that one



the lobby all tiled up



the kitchen side window, this has etched glass and is fine



and the two main kitchen windows





the upstairs bedroom looking through to the window





the bathroom door, all stripped and finished

do you like big knobs?

----------


## Dillinger

That lizard  on the last page,  doing a bad job  of imitating  a chameleon,  has a lot in common with thai craftsmen 

Good stuff Andy,  coming on a treat

----------


## terry57

Coming on very bloody nice Doc.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> do you like big knobs?


No, and especially not on a door, as I find I graze my knuckles all too often.

I shall be installing proper door handles if I ever get started on my house again.

----------


## weescotsguy66

Well Done, everyone thought that 2 months was not achievable and it looks to be darn close to it, I would estimate you are only another 2 weeks at most to finish it off, on the return on investments if we achieve 2off 15,000 baht per unit then this is a very good ROI given that the cost is around 2Million and building Costs around 300K giving your little extras quoted. I would say keeping the house would be the best option to having your retirement income at 30K / month.

weescotsguy66

----------


## DrAndy

> That lizard on the last page, doing a bad job of imitating a chameleon


true, I am not sure of it's proper name






> and especially not on a door, as I find I graze my knuckles all too often.  I shall be installing proper door handles if I ever get started on my house again.


you soon get used to them

big knobs rock!!

----------


## DrAndy

> everyone thought that 2 months was not achievable and it looks to be darn close to it


yes, they have nearly finished, maybe the end of the month. In addition they have done some extra work not in the original contract, so they get extra time!




> I would say keeping the house would be the best option to having your retirement income at 30K / month.


that is the plan  although retirement has not been mentioned

as for these two apartments, we have verbally agreed with two women that they can rent the whole house (one apartment each) for B25k a month on a years contract. They may even turn up to pay on the scheduled day....

----------


## DrAndy

well, the roof is progressing






compare the original appearance

----------


## Eliminator

Is parking going to be a problem with 2 families renting?

----------


## DrAndy

not if they don't have two cars

although they could squeeze them in

it is almost always Americans that need parking space, they cannot envisage leaving their car not in or on their doorstep

Most Europeans find it normal to park in the street

----------


## nigelandjan

Those windows in the bedroom Doc are they sliding ally windows ? and if so do you know how much each ? they are about the size of the biggest windows I want in ours

----------


## Dillinger

Is that bottom flat gonna get much light ?

It seems the opposite buildings are overshading it

----------


## Satonic

> Originally Posted by Dillinger
> 
> That lizard on the last page, doing a bad job of imitating a chameleon
> 
> 
> true, I am not sure of it's proper name


It's a Garden Fence Lizard (Calotes versicolor). A few facts if you're interested -


The Garden fence Lizard can quickly change color, usually from olive to bright orange or crimson. The males throat turns red when faced with an aggressor, and when attracting a mate.

Garden Fence Lizards are sometimes also called "changeable lizards".

They eat insects and small vertebrates, and swallow their food whole.

They are closely related to the Iguana.

Like a chameleon, they can move both of their eyes in different directions.

The female garden Fence Lizard lays her eggs in the ground, eggs hatch after approximately 8 weeks.

----------


## DrAndy

what about if the Lizard is on a wall?

----------


## DrAndy

> Is that bottom flat gonna get much light ?
> 
> It seems the opposite buildings are overshading it


these are the tropics so any shade is welcome

at the back, there are new windows and practically no sun, so it is nice

shady and bright enough

----------


## DrAndy

> Those windows in the bedroom Doc are they sliding ally windows ? and if so do you know how much each ? they are about the size of the biggest windows I want in ours



yes, the new windows in the kitchen and bedroom are sliding aluminium

I don't have the breakdown of the costs yet, we were offered a total price for all the windows

I will ask, I think around B3500 each but...

----------


## t.s

Dr Andy, Arent you concerned your new roof drains directly onto the neighboring property?

brilliant thread by the way looking like it will be a nice gaff when done

----------


## Dillinger

^It will still lay it's eggs under your dark flat,  turn it's throat red and devour your tenants.

Oops sorry.  I missed a page :-)

----------


## DrAndy

> Dr Andy, Arent you concerned your new roof drains directly onto the neighboring property?


no

They have now installed a gutter, quite neat as the space was limited

I may even post a pic




> brilliant thread by the way looking like it will be a nice gaff when done


and thank you

----------


## DrAndy

> It will still lay it's eggs under your dark flat, turn it's throat red and devour your tenants.


that means they would have broken their lease so have to pay a penalty

----------


## BKKBILL

> what about if the Lizard is on a wall?


Now your just messing with us. Good thread Doc do thank the boss.

----------


## DrAndy

thanks Bill

she is doing well

----------


## harrry

> Originally Posted by Dillinger
> 
> It will still lay it's eggs under your dark flat, turn it's throat red and devour your tenants.
> 
> 
> that means they would have broken their lease so have to pay a penalty


So you do not have a sole occupency clause in your lease.  How many more tenants will you squeeze in? :smiley laughing:

----------


## DrAndy

we have a max of two people per apartment

so no squeeze

----------


## the dogcatcher

Is that wood or steel for the new roof.
Wankers didn't paint the welds on my roof.
Made them go back and do it.

----------


## DrAndy

the basic structure is steel, and they painted the welds

----------


## DrAndy

anyway, two charming ladies have paid a deposit, signed a year lease and are looking forward to moving in towards the end of next month

that's the way to do it!!  My wife knew these two were looking for two places near each other (mother and daughter) and this seemed to fit their bill perfectly

so she called them, showed them around, negotiated a bit and DEAL!

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Well done to the Missus!

----------


## Eliminator

Keep it an only women can rent deal and I think you will be better off.  Great work on both your parts.

----------


## DrAndy

thanks Elim




> Keep it an only women can rent deal and I think you will be better off.


but I am not sure about that?

----------


## snakeeyes

The workers done a great job , fair play to them . well done .  :Smile:

----------


## the dogcatcher

> anyway, two charming ladies have paid a deposit, signed a year lease and are looking forward to moving in towards the end of next month
> 
> that's the way to do it!! My wife knew these two were looking for two places near each other (mother and daughter) and this seemed to fit their bill perfectly
> 
> so she called them, showed them around, negotiated a bit and DEAL!


Sounds like you have a great wife.
Can I swap her for Laosy.

----------


## DrAndy

Would that be pert exchange?

----------


## DrAndy

> She is becoming an entrepreneur and that's a good feeling. Can't discount the non tangibles


exactly; this is her project and she is proud of it

and of herself, she is doing some good work

----------


## DrAndy

thanks Mods for the cleaning

today we have brought a load of old security grills from Mae Rim and hope to use them to make the wall higher, as per our new clients' instructions

----------


## Tom Sawyer

In Bangkok, many landlords charge 2 months deposit what is she charging for deposit? Wondering if this is peculiar to BKK or maybe just farangs renting top end places

----------


## DrAndy

she charges one month equivalent unless someone has a pet, then two months

----------


## Namdocmai

Ikea kitchens/furniture look great after  a flooding! 

For the wood finish i would go for poly-urethane because it is uv-proof if you buy the more expensive version.

----------


## nigelandjan

> thanks Mods for the cleaning


Sorry about that ,, my original comment was made in good intent ,, I dont know what happened after that I,d gone to bed

----------


## DrAndy

> For the wood finish i would go for poly-urethane because it is uv-proof


luckily we don't have much sun indoors and the rest are in shade

----------


## DrAndy

> my original comment was made in good intent


it wasn't you Nigel, no worries

----------


## DrAndy

They are doing the outer walls now

the new tenants want to feel secure so have asked for the walls to be built up a little

so we had a lot of old iron grills we could use

the front is like this; the gate will also be changed

you may notice the tank is in place (as is the pump)

above the guys head a shirt can be seen hanging; this hides the PIR which switches the lights on automatically when you go in

it worked last night, so that's good!




another view




down the hallway we have had a couple of arches put in for a "gay" effect

they make the space seem different, not just a long passageway





at the rear, the back wall on the left will be built up with blocks, at the neighbours request - no problem. The side wall will have iron grills on top for more security



from now on, the Mrs will be in sole charge and will send me pics for me to post for your delight

I am off to Lunnon

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> down the hallway we have had a couple of arches put in for a "gay" effect


They do look very gay indeed. Good job.

Safe travels.

----------


## Scandinavian

> from now on, the Mrs will be in sole charge and will send me pics for me to post for your delight
> 
> I am off to Lunnon



Yepp, she sure looks like she's in charge. Where did you find such a hard working missus??

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Mamasun

Hi Dr. Andy, in what material this arches are made from ?

Thank's

----------


## draco888

> Hi Dr. Andy, in what material this arches are made from ?
> 
> Thank's


Homostyrene

----------


## ChalkyDee

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> down the hallway we have had a couple of arches put in for a "gay" effect
> 
> 
> They do look very gay indeed. Good job.
> 
> Safe travels.


They look good to me, does that mean I'm gay?

----------


## DrAndy

> Hi Dr. Andy, in what material this arches are made from ?
> 
> Thank's



the forms are just cut from Gyproc board; they will be plastered over smooth

----------


## DrAndy

> Yepp, she sure looks like she's in charge. Where did you find such a hard working missus??


that is the builder woman, she is a tough cookie

nice woman, excellent at rendering, tiling and drinking

----------


## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by DrAndy
> ...



yes, but don't worry

----------


## cisco999

> Good luck.
> I would simply knock down the entire building. Build a fresh one. Then you have a brand new house for sale.


.



From the photo posted it looks like the house shares a common wall with a neighboring house.     Is it even  possible to do a knock down and start fresh  if that's the case?

----------


## DrAndy

^ The suggestion was a bit pointless as our budget would not allow that option

a newly renovated house is as good as a new one in most respects

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Depends. Who is your target market? Thais moving to the area for work (e.g. tourism industry or industrial)? Or is it foreigners? I agree that a reno in most cases will beat the competition - if that's the idea. But it won't beat "new" if Thai are the target.

----------


## DrAndy

the target was people who want to live in a 2 bedroom flat in a central area

you are repeating the same old story that Thais don't like to live in "old" houses and only want new - true of some but certainly not universal

and these are rental not for sale

----------


## nigelandjan

Thing is these days , where do you invest ? 

You have to be a very clever person to make money from money itself ,, the banks here in the UK are now floating the idea of charging us for having a SAVINGS account !

I would rather invest in a project like this with mabe not a massive return ( non the less some form of return ) + the fact the capital unit is appreciating for the future

----------


## PAG

Market research is obviously key in these (and all other property investment decisions).   In Dr A's circumstances, area rental versus property price/renovation cost appears to have prompted the good Mrs A's decision.   Key is getting the right property at the right price.

Minimal capital outlay initially, with rent covering borrowing costs/overheads and after 8 to 10 years and now with negative borrowings, the end result of either a healthy monthly income or a good asset value which could be realised if sold.

----------


## nigelandjan

> Key is getting the right property at the right price.


Add to that list ,  location

----------


## sranchito

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> she has bought a house in the old city with a mortgage and extra funds to develop it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not really, try Sentricon.  If it works in Texas?

----------


## DrAndy

we will use Termidor

I have heard that Sentricon is a bit of a con

Is the Sentricon system effective or a scam?

and not available in Thailand

----------


## snakeeyes

As for myself I enjoy DrAndy's building thread , it's great to see the building project from the start to the finish , great pic's of the finished project ,  :Smile:

----------


## DrAndy

> great pic's of the finished project


not finished yet...nearly there

I will have to get some new pics soon

----------


## Makmak456

very good thread,  excellent pics and story.
Read it all in one go, today. Don't know how I missed it  :Smile: 
Thanks
Mark

----------


## DrAndy

Thanks Mark

we were quite lucky on this build, it has all gone quite smoothly...

----------


## rickschoppers

^
Practice does make perfect.

----------


## DrAndy

^ well, a bit easier

you know that you must make a good set of plans for your builder and try not to alter anything too much

----------


## DrAndy

a few more pics update

sorry if they are not normal sized but they are from my wife's phone camera

OK the front of the house has a nice iron planter, and the window glass has been changed to clear...much better




the front gate has been radically altered from a concertina gate to a sliding gate

this is the only house which has the room to do that, and it is successful




the back patio for the upstairs flat being paved

we may build a concrete planter at the end for plants to climb the wall



The stairs look like they need a good scrub




the stair window into the ground floor flat with obscure glass





the downstairs corridor now painted; the window pictured above can just be seen - it lets a lot of light in

the gay arches have been finished




the upstairs landing area, all bright and clean

coloured glass in the side window for a warmer look




coming along well, with plenty of time to spare

should be finished before Songkran

----------


## Mozzbie47

Dr A, this project is looking great with excellent idea's, has your wife had most of the input ?

----------


## DrAndy

we are a team; she is the project director, I am the Technical advisor and shopping guru, with benefits

oh yes, and she does all the gay stuff

----------


## rickschoppers

> ^ well, a bit easier
> 
> you know that you must make a good set of plans for your builder and try not to alter anything too much


Andy, would you mind PMing your architect's contact information? I would like to talk with him in the near future. Thanks

----------


## DrAndy

I am the architect, Rick, we just had the plans drawn up to our specs for the builder

----------


## nigelandjan

Looking nice and light and bright in there now the paints on inside. 

Lets hope the residents / tennants keep it that way .

Just wondering how the rent on places like these are paid in Thailand , weekly / monthly ? collected in cash by heavies ? or by direct debit into your / sorry I mean your wifes  :mid:  bank account ?

----------


## DrAndy

if someone has an account in Thailand, the easiest way to pay is using an ATM machine

there is no direct debit facility

if they don't have an account, then cash

----------


## DrAndy

some more pics of the little clean-up work that is going on

not too interesting, sorry

this is the plastic sheeting put up to protect the washing machine that is to be situated next to the tank



the block of flats is just behind that so this will also give some extra privacy



the "security"  ironwork as requested by our new tenants to make them feel secure

we have used some old grills and reworked them

not beautiful but adequate








it should look better once the painting is finished

----------


## DrAndy

some more pics by my wife

the progress is such that we can now start putting the furniture in, although that may have to wait until after Songkran


The front door for the upstairs flat

like a lot of the doors and windows, we got them from our local secondhand woodyard, so everything is teak from there



the lobby looking through to the patio




the sidewall, built up with old railings, for a sense of security




The entrance area; a shirt is still hanging on the PIR which leads me to think they have not adjusted it for night only use

nice and clean though





the same but a slightly different view; they have straightened the planter!

as can now be seen, the gate has been converted to a sliding version




the builders have vanished for Songkran, all gone home

----------


## Dillinger

Nice job Andy. 

Can we see how It looks compared to the rest of the houses on that side?

----------


## DrAndy

I am dependent on my wife for pics

but maybe some of the earlier pics can be used for comparison

this is what our house looked like before, probably worse condition than most of the neighbours but similar in appearance

----------


## nigelandjan

> The front door for the upstairs flat
> 
> like a lot of the doors and windows, we got them from our local secondhand woodyard, so everything is teak from there


I love the general idea of re/using everything of use be it building or whatever ,, can I ask generally speaking is it that much different in Thaialnd money saving wise to use secondhand ? 

I know another good point using secondhand doors etc the frames are seasoned so not so likely to buckle and warp under the changes in weather

----------


## DrAndy

> can I ask generally speaking is it that much different in Thaialnd money saving wise to use secondhand ?


well, if you want a basic teak door it will cost about B8000 up

the teak doors we bought were B3000 each, although we had to spend some time sanding them down after removing any varnish, say half a day each at B200

the nice thing about old doors is that they often have character, which adds to the house itself

----------


## Aberlour

They look great, I could be very comfortable in one of those, but I'm really surprised how much they rent for. I thought CM was known for being cheap, even the expensive areas which I believe is where these places are.

They're going for the exact same price I used to rent a 3 bedroom detached  bungalow, with a nice outdoor area, on Phuket!

I thought Phuket was the supposed to be the dearest place in Thailand??

----------


## DrAndy

I suppose it is because there are few nice, modern flats in the centre

Lots of people have said that they have been looking for ages and all they have seen is fairly run down or badly decorated places, at not much cheaper

outside of CM you can get places a lot cheaper, but you can't walk to bars and restaurants and stumble home drunk

incidentally




> They're going for the exact same price I used  to rent a 3 bedroom detached bungalow, with a nice outdoor area, on  Phuket!  I thought Phuket was the supposed to be the dearest place in  Thailand??


so your house was on the beach, or some way away?

----------


## DrAndy

One of the lads is not playing Songkran today, so he is happy to fit the four 
kitchen cupboard shelves




Just 15mm ply, although I did specify 18mm

they will need sanding and polyurethaning

good enough for the purpose



the rear patio has been cleaned 

looks good



the rear wall has been built up as requested by the neighbour

and the three drain coves made and fitted - that should keep the rat out






no furniture pics as yet

----------


## Aberlour

> so your house was on the beach, or some way away?


Five minute drive. 

You can get a Thai spec 3 bedroom house for 15k pretty much anywhere on the island. (within reason)

There aren't that many places "on the beach" in Phuket and there aren't many places that are more than a 15 minute drive to a beach. So the beach isn't that relevant to location.

I suppose to compare like for like, you would need to compare that location with Patong, or Phuket Town, in that they are the main town areas for drinking and eating out. 

I'm not 100%, but I'm sure you could get the equivalent in Patong for the same price, and probably a lot cheaper in Phuket Town.

I just always thought that prices would be considerably lower in CM than in Phuket.

----------


## DrAndy

CM is the new boom town!  lots of people from Bkk coming up and investing

lots of new tourists

lots of farang who want to stay for a while or retire here- our main customer base

----------


## rickschoppers

As stated before, I would rent one of your units to be able to come over to CM a month at a time. Unfortunately, that will have to wait now since I have returned to the US to make enough money so that I can build an apartment complex like yours.

Great job and I am sure you will have no problem keeping your units rented.

----------


## DrAndy

Thanks Rick, I hope so

So now my wife has a new job, as property developer, and she enjoys it a lot

she also feels that she has more status when people ask her what she does, now she doesn't have to answer "housewife"

and she earns her own money from it, which is a good thing all round

----------


## stevefarang

> Thanks Rick, I hope so
> 
> So now my wife has a new job, as property developer, and she enjoys it a lot
> 
> she also feels that she has more status when people ask her what she does, now she doesn't have to answer "housewife"
> 
> and she earns her own money from it, which is a good thing all round


Andy,
I'm hoping to be able to do something similar with my wife as well. Next year, after our house is done and finances all caught up.
But we'll leave your "territory" in CM alone!  :Smile: 

Steve

----------


## DrAndy

good luck with that, Steve!

----------


## terp80

:Smile:  Dr. A, I have thoroughly enjoyed your thread. Congratulations to you and your wife. Quite an amazing transformation, and at close to your original (low) cost too. I am planning to build a small 3 BR 2+ Ba house in Don Kaew, just up 107, and would like to get any advice I can get, as I am on a tight budget, and don't have any building experience.  :Confused:  Thanks

----------


## terp80

I know, "tight budget;" so what else is new. :smiley laughing:

----------


## ossierob

Excellent informative thread Dr Andy, you and your other half have come up with some very practical changes and additions to your rebuild with a very acceptable result. well done.   Though it is only mildly associated with this particular thread I would love to hear your advice on laying fibro insulation in the ceiling of a home using down lights such as you have installed in your rebuild. My concern is that though the wiring is itself insulated is it a good idea to lay the insulation with the metal foil covering over the top of it.....thanks in advance....Rob

----------


## DrAndy

> I am planning to build a small 3 BR 2+ Ba house in Don Kaew, just up 107, and would like to get any advice I can get, as I am on a tight budget


the best advice I can give you at this stage is that you start your own thread, with pics of your plans and get feedback there

Budget builds are often more interesting as you need to work around the constraints

----------


## DrAndy

> Though it is only mildly associated with this particular thread I would love to hear your advice on laying fibro insulation in the ceiling of a home using down lights such as you have installed in your rebuild. My concern is that though the wiring is itself insulated is it a good idea to lay the insulation with the metal foil covering over the top of it


Probably not; I think there have been problems in Aussie with that

keep the insulation off the lights so there is no direct contact

----------


## terry57

^

Laying insulation over down lights has caused many fires in homes through the use of GU10 globes and associated radiated heat issues. Unlicensed insulation contractors caused many problems doing dodgy installs.

Anyway, keep your insulation 50 ml away from any down lights and consider changing to LED globes which create no heat and use minimal power.

Win-Win situation with LED'S.

----------


## ossierob

Thanks for the advice and information Dr Andy and Terry

----------


## DrAndy

our pleasure, I'm sure




> Win-Win situation with LED'S.


well Terry, I haven't found any LED lights that are bright enough yet, or at a reasonable cost

the cost is falling and they are getting brighter but both are still way off

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## terry57

^

You being quite the handyman Dc I'm quite surprised by your statement.  

I have ten down lights in my kitchen and living area that I have installed to highlight pictures and my bench tops.  Also have  3 normal lights in place for as you have mentioned, times when I want a bright light. Also over my sink area I have left a GU10 in place for extra lighting when required.  

2 months ago in Chiang mai they where selling LED's for around 200 baht each for a 5 watt globe which equals around a 30 watt normal bulb. In Perth they sell for around 300 baht so the price is good considering the energy saving and extra long life of the LED's.

Most of the times I'm using only the LED lights which is ample for soft lighting of the pictures and bench tops. If I'm cooking up I'll bang on a strong light for a short time.

Another issue to consider when using GU 10 bulbs in down lights is the huge amount of radiated heat that these bulbs put out and that's where the house fires where originating from.

If any of you punters have any of these bulbs installed I recommend you get in your roof one day and feel the heat coming from them.  

Quite scary actually, suppose They might be OK in Blighty where its freezing 24/7 but in Thailand you are just adding to your already battle with the heat gods.

There starting a program to phase out these bulbs in Australia because of all the issue associated with them. 

LED's are the way to go and a must for new installs.

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## stevefarang

Terry,
My son, the newly minted BSEE, did an internship working with a solid-state lighting company, so I learned a few things about LED lights. 
It's a little misleading to say LED bulbs do not get hot. They do emit heat, but it's dissipated in the built in heat sink that all LED lights need to have. And it's certainly not as hot as a halogen bulb.

I've been trying out an LED bulb here at my place in the USA and am pretty pleased with it. I'll be looking at a schedule of replacing the cheap CFL bulbs, that I know PD House will use in our new house, with LED bulbs. I've even seen some nice LED kitchen lights, very similar to the little halogen track style lighting. Nice & bright.

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## DrAndy

> I haven't found any LED lights that are bright enough yet, or at a reasonable cost





> Also have 3 normal lights in place for as you have mentioned, times when I want a bright light.


so you find the same, they really are not very bright...30W is not much good unless you want dim romantic lighting



> nother issue to consider when using GU 10 bulbs in down lights i


I use the mini-flourescent lights, which give out plenty of light and are cheap to run, also fairly cool

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## Norton

> I use the mini-flourescent lights


Same here. LEDs just not bright enough. I prefer EVE "warm white". Not as harsh as normal white ones.

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## DrAndy

depends on the location, Norton

for kitchens and bathrooms, the "daylight" are great

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## benlovesnuk

My input on LED is that downlights dont have to be high watt to do their job, but you can get them in Chiangmai for 150 badt. They add less heat and dont attract insects.

You can use slightly more for the m2 space to increase light but in a new build they make far more sense. You can get both cold blue or warm white.

I got a downlight combo with LED that swivelled for 300 badt. The same it would cost for just swivel down light. I use side lights also LED and the combination works well.

The fluorescent attract to many insects and are too hot and bright for myself, but that's why there is a choice depending on your situation and circumstance or preference.

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## DrAndy

> My input on LED is that downlights dont have to be high watt


do they make them in equivalent 60W?  I know that nowadays they have confused the issue by quoting in Lumens, but they all seem rather dim for reading, cooking etc

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## MissTraveller

I just went through this thread and wanted to say Congrats on a well done project. The pictures are great and really show the changes over time. I like the arches and the stain glassed windows in the house. Do you rent other places as well?

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## DrAndy

Thanks MissT

and yes, here is the thread showing how we converted an old double shophouse to 10 apartments

https://teakdoor.com/construction-in-...partments.html (DrAndy's Rachman-style apartments)

I think they are full at the moment but they do come free now and then, from B10K up

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## mingmong

enjoying the post Doc, I too brought back some Led screw in globes from cnx last trip,

quite bright and 20% the cost in Oz, just insulating Dad's old house in Adelaide S.A.

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## MissTraveller

> I think they are full at the moment but they do come free now and then, from B10K up


They are very nice, Dr. Great thread too. I love the rooftop area.  :Smile: 
I'll definitely look you up if I am looking for a long term place in CM.

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## terry57

^

No you wont, I'm before you.   :Smile:

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## MissTraveller

> ^
> 
> No you wont, I'm before you.


haha, we can fight it out. 
(joke)

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## Thetyim

or share  :Smile:

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## rickschoppers

I think Dr.A has a waiting list for his apartments and it seems to be growing.

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## Norton

> I think Dr.A has a waiting list for his apartments and it seems to be growing.


Andy has these as well. Very nice if you want quiet. Away from city center in Mae Rim but only about 20kms to city. 

https://teakdoor.com/building-in-thai...icefields.html

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## Scandinavian

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> I use the mini-flourescent lights
> 
> 
> Same here. LEDs just not bright enough. I prefer EVE "warm white". Not as harsh as normal white ones.


Really?
The 5w LED bulbs with E27 base (220V) I just got are more bright than any bulb I used before. And they are very warmwhite too.
LED's today really do come in any color, earlier a warmwhite color might have been hard to find but not anymore.

HOME

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## Norton

> Really?


I admit haven't looked at what is currently available. Will go take a look upon your advice. If the newer stuff is good, may consider replacing some of my current lighting. I do have LED light. Aquarium. :Smile:

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## DrAndy

I have ordered some LED equivalents for my kitchen, to replace the GU16 halogen bulbs

I am awaiting with excitement

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## DrAndy

> Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> 
> I think Dr.A has a waiting list for his apartments and it seems to be growing.
> 
> 
> Andy has these as well. Very nice if you want quiet. Away from city center in Mae Rim but only about 20kms to city. 
> 
> https://teakdoor.com/building-in-thai...icefields.html



sorry, someone has  5 year lease on the property, and wants to buy it now he has lived there for a few months

hmmmm

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## Davis Knowlton

Said it before, but this was a really interesting thread.

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## Norton

> wants to buy it now he has lived there for a few months


Having been there can understand why he wants to buy it.

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## WhiteLotusLane

> Originally Posted by DrAndy
> 
> so your house was on the beach, or some way away?
> 
> 
> Five minute drive. 
> 
> You can get a Thai spec 3 bedroom house for 15k pretty much anywhere on the island. (within reason)
> 
> ...


It is considerably lower. But not as low as it used to be. 

Getting 30K rent total for a place like that is of course an incredible achievement. Shows what is possible with a great location, and offering solid quality; then people will want to rent.  

Or, in different terms, each property also stands on it's own. I could likely find a building like that for rent for well under 10K (for the whole house), also downtown BUT there would be all kinds of things a little (or more) 'off' with it, or in need of work.  Dr. Andy's places come as perfect as a new hotel or condo room, with everything working including internet, so you drop your bags and stop worrying about it.

Add to this that the old town area (inside the moat) does not have condominium buildings (by regulation) and is short on nicer apartments. 

But can you rent a house for under 10K just about anywhere: sure you can.

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## DrAndy

yes, there is a small one nearby going for B6k a month, 2 bed

we were thinking of taking a 5 year lease and upgrading the building and letting it for B15k a month

People are willing to pay more for places that are much nicer than the average Thai standard, and there are not many around

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## Marmite the Dog

> Originally Posted by Norton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by rickschoppers
> ...


I'll not say what the Midget and I got up to in our cabin or the sale might fall through.  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

we have the pics, Marmite

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## terp80

> the best advice I can give you at this stage is that you start your own thread, with pics of your plans and get feedback there


Thanks Dr A, I'll try to do that. I have to figure out how to post pics though. I set up a Photobucket account, but now I'm just confused about how to use it.  :Confused: 
I'm sure my thread will provide lots of entertainment for the experienced builders. But I am looking forward to all the good input.  :Smile:

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## DrAndy

there is a tutorial on pic posting in the newbies section

have a go!

I think if you are using photobucket, you just right click on the pic, and left click on the "copy image location" to your pic, and plug that into the square yellow URL box above

her is an example I just found, nice chubby girl

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## Bettyboo

Excellent effort DrA and Mrs DrA; you clearly both know what you're doing.

I feel rather inadeqate now...  :Sad:

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## DrAndy

we have fun doing it too, Betty

as Smeg so kindly remarked





> you are so clever illegally building a business based on renting out ugly property you can't own


but not illegal, my wife owns it, maybe ugly but that depends on personal taste, and she is clever, true

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## Dino

Andy, you have a lot of great ideas. The arches and adding colored glass are small touches but they add a lot to the overall look of the place. Very well done. 




> Unlicensed insulation contractors caused many problems doing dodgy installs.


Know of a reliable insulation contractor in CM?

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## DrAndy

Terry was talking about Australia, not CM

All you have to do is be careful any foil is not in close contact with any electrical parts

like the bottom of inset lights

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## Dino

> Terry was talking about Australia, not CM
> 
> All you have to do is be careful any foil is not in close contact with any electrical parts
> 
> like the bottom of inset lights


Ah, thanks.

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## DrAndy

> The arches and adding colored glass are small touches but they add a lot to the overall look of the place. Very well done.


Both of those were my wife's ideas

she is becoming a good interior designer!

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## WhiteLotusLane

I dug up this topic as I was wondering if this completed?   Would love to see final pictures..!

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## Davis Knowlton

> I dug up this topic as I was wondering if this completed?   Would love to see final pictures..!


Since Dr.Andy flounced almost a year ago, I doubt that's going to happen.

----------


## stevefarang

> Originally Posted by WhiteLotusLane
> 
> 
> I dug up this topic as I was wondering if this completed?   Would love to see final pictures..!
> 
> 
> Since Dr.Andy flounced almost a year ago, I doubt that's going to happen.


Flounced ?

I was actually thinking about him the other day and why he hasn't posted in a while. He used to offer some good insight.

Steve

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## aging one

steve to you see all the fighting going on right now. in fact koojo has a poll about it. andy would be right in the middle of it. He was a character. would takes months off at a time to tour europe but then come back and pound the keyboard relentlessly. looking for someone to provoke. 

Right now a few posters are on rampages. 40+ posts a day. They sure dont believe in quality over quantity.  :mid:

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## Looper

> Since Dr.Andy flounced almost a year ago


It was only in October cause it was after he was jailed.

His av does not say 'I am in jail' so maybe he has been released in a new year act of clemency.

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## Wasp

terp80 :
Thanks Dr A, I'll try to do that. I have to figure out how to post pics though. I set up a Photobucket account, but now I'm just confused about how to use it.  :Confused: 


terp ..... I had this difficulty too and needed a step by step guide .

So........

1. Put your photo into Photobucket .

2. Go to the Photobucket Library and find the photo you want to put into TD .

3. Double  Left-Click on that photo and it will come up as a big photo .

3. Single Right-Click inside that large photo . It will give you several Options .
 One of them is Copy image URL . Single Left-click on that .

4. Now go to Teakdoor . You'll be writing some message so look at the top of the writing box for the little Postcard . It's got a mountain and a stamp on it .

5. Single Left Click on that Postcard .
It will have   " http://" highlighted in blue . Press Delete so that goes away . And now press Ctrl V together . A string of text will apear where you previously had that http:// .

6. Press OK ...... and that's it .

In your message you won't see a photo . You'll just see a line of text . It's the URL for your photo . But when you finish your message and SUBMIT you'll then see your message and the photo .

Bettyboo taught me this .


Wasp

.
.

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## Wasp

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> Since Dr.Andy flounced almost a year ago
> 
> 
> It was only in October cause it was after he was jailed.
> 
> His av does not say 'I am in jail' so maybe he has been released in a new year act of clemency.


Hmmmm ......

I've only just checked the date of terp80's Post and I realise I'm damn near a year late with my helpful Post .

Maybe it will help somebody .

HOWEVER !!!!! What is all this ?????

Why was Dr Andy jailed ? ...... Wassgoinnon ???

Dr Andy was one of the first people to help me when I was speculating driving concrete posts into water .

Then I read somewhere " the recently departed Dr Andy ".

Sounded like he'd died .  I didn't want to ask the wrong thing so I stayed quiet .
But now it seems the departure was to a jail !

What happened ?  Please tell me . And if you're reading Dr A .... well I'm truly sorry to hear of such troubles .


Wasp

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## Latindancer

He did something naughty on this forum and was sent to Teakdoor "jail". That is to say, his posting rights were reduced. But he disappeared instead.

----------


## BaitongBoy

Caught in someone else's knickers...And forum disruption for badgering everyone...
Couldn't take the humiliation and left in shame...

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## Wasp

Oh good .

I like Teakdoor but it's hardly very serious to be suspended .
Not compared to life's problems .

I thought he really had been jailed and the one thing of supreme importance in Thailand is not to do anything that will get you put there .

I knew someone . Who did something that was simply stupid . And he was sent to a real live jail . Which I visited .

The guy died in there . And let's say if he hadn't been in jail he would still be alive now .

So it worries me to read that stuff . I automatically liked Dr Andy - so it's a great pleasure to find that it's so much less serious .

Again ..... if you do read these things ..... come back Doc.


Wasp

----------


## grasshopper

He was one of the more rational posters on this site, thats for sure.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

^
Not IMO, I think he was a boring old practitioner of one-line insults. Anyway, I would also like to know how the project turned out.

----------


## WhiteLotusLane

Does anyone know where it is located?  Then I'll go take a look and update the topic.  :Wink: 

I recall it was somewhere near Wat Phra Singh in Chiang Mai.

----------


## Wasp

> ^
> Not IMO, I think he was a boring old practitioner of one-line insults. Anyway, I would also like to know how the project turned out.


I haven't seen any of that stuff and you must have some cause for saying this ..... but I'll still defend the guy a little .

He communicated with me a few times and he was straightforward and helpful .

Indeed very patient too .

I'm not saying you're wrong . There seems to have been some friction created . 
But there are always reasons people come across as intolerant and I will say he wasn't always so in my experience .


Wasp

----------


## Latindancer

> Does anyone know where it is located?  Then I'll go take a look and update the topic. 
> 
> I recall it was somewhere near Wat Phra Singh in Chiang Mai.


Take a look through the first few pages in the thread. You should be able to work out where it is from the info and pics provided.

----------


## WhiteLotusLane

^ Right, I think I found it.  :Wink: 

This is still insanely difficult by the way.  I remember it took me hours of gazing at Google Earth to find his other place (The Rachman Apartments). 

But was lucky to have the Wat Phra Singh indication here, even though the pictures show less of the surroundings. 

I'll swing by with a camera today.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Try not to identify the location so precisely.

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> This is still insanely difficult by the way. I remember it took me hours of gazing at Google Earth to find his other place (The Rachman Apartments).


I've been trying to find CMN's gaff on Google Earth, but fortunately for him have failed miserably.

----------


## WhiteLotusLane

So, Yeah;  Found it.  :Smile: 




> Try not to identify the location so precisely.


Right; I'll post in the spirit of DrAndy's posts and won't mention the exact location unless he wants to share it.

Anyway it looks tidy.

Actually that whole soi doesn't look nearly as ghetto as I thought.  Pretty nice.

----------


## Tom Sawyer

Looks good. He went for the rain gutters too. Good move - most Thai wouldn't bother..  I think I would have re-done the windows though on ground floor.

----------


## BKKKevin

> yes, there is a small one nearby going for B6k a month, 2 bed
> 
> we were thinking of taking a 5 year lease and upgrading the building and letting it for B15k a month
> 
> People are willing to pay more for places that are much nicer than the average Thai standard, and there are not many around


With a 5 year lease would you have this registered with the land office?

----------

