#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Thailand and Asia News >  >  > Business, Finance & Economics in Thailand >  >  Foreign tourists have declined by 50 per cent in 2008

## Mid

*Tourism Ministry to seek 25 billion baht to prop up tourism* 
28 December 2008 
Wanitcha Sumanat

Ministry of Tourism and Sports weighed asking for additional budget amounting to 25 billion baht from the Government to prop op local tourism by speedily circulating cash to private entrepreneurs adversely affected by global economic and local political crises. 

Ministry of Tourism and Sportss Head of Inspector Mr. Seksan Nakwong said on Saturday (December 27) that the additional budget would be a supplement to the ministrys existing budget of 10 billion baht. Apart from shoring up the industry, he said the stability of the entrepreneurs businesses in tourism industry would help build positive image and confidence to the country. 

Mr. Seksan claimed that foreign tourists have declined by 50 per cent in 2008, while hotels' booking has decreased to a mere 10 to 20 per cent of total number of hotels' rooms. At the same time, Director of the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) Advertising and Marketing Miss Phatmat Wongphatthanasiri added that it should take at least four to six months to get the embattled tourism industry back on track. 

thainews.prd.go.th





> prop op local tourism by speedily circulating cash to private entrepreneurs adversely affected by global economic and local political crises.


oh boy , money for jam ,

line line starts here .  :Smile: 

.

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## jim1176

Funny how they miss the farangs they hate

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## donmeurett

> Funny how they miss the farangs they hate


If some of the farangs you say they hate acted like human beings instead of total ass holes maybe things would be different.

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## Muadib

^ Some of us do, while others are a disgrace... Can't tar the whole lot of falungs with the same brush... 

I wonder if any falung owned travel related businesses will qualify for this aid???

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## keda

Also funny how they have excellent tourist figures when they need them for propaganda purposes, and can turn the same numbers into catastrophe to squeeze more money from the trough.

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## Loy Toy

> Foreign tourists have declined by 50 per cent in 2008


Only 50%........?

I expected the number to be around 70% and if it is fact 50% (and as reported) this just goes to show how much tourists value coming to LOS even with all the quite frightening turmoil.

Thailand's tourist business will survive even despite the actions of some Thai's!

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## Thormaturge

So only half the expected tourists have come. Don't worry, the Thais are working on them too....

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## Muadib

The sense of desperation is almost palpable in some areas... Many Thai don't understand why falung no come this year... The mai bpen rai attitude only goes so far when you're hungry, can't pay your rent or send baht home to the family... Truly sad...

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## gjbkk

> Also funny how they have excellent tourist figures when they need them for propaganda purposes, and can turn the same numbers into catastrophe to squeeze more money from the trough.


 
can't green for that but how true.

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## davearn

phuket is well dead

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## bkkandrew

But these figures are pure fiction in any case. According to their statistics I am in actual fact 13 tourists in 2008 thus far and will magically be another one when I land tomorrow. Funnily enough, I don't go to tourist bars, restaurants or resorts, rarely stay in a tourist type hotel and can't remember the last time I visited a tourist attraction.

Amongst my circle of friends, most appear as a similar number of tourists in their crude figures. I suspect it is this underlying number that makes up the bulk of the 50% number.

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## Repubblicano

Until they get rid of the lese majeste law I don't see how could tourism possibly recover. In no other place in the world you risk to be jailed for not standing up in a cinema or for writing three lines in a 7 copies sold book. Only in Thailand. 
In no other place you risk to be stranded for a whole week because "you know who" sends a mob to close all international airports to get rid of the government the people dared to choose against his will. My advice to all tourists is to stay well away from Thailand.

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## keda

Doesn't really matter, chick flu, global meltdown, PAD or coup, farangs numbers may dwindle for a month or two but they'll keep heading this way for as long as they can get their rocks off at the right price. Never mind the other attractions like temples, culture, food and scenery, next to the women they're little more than noise.

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## barbaro

> phuket is well dead


And I assume the others venues are dead, too.

I good time to go or be there.

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## DaffyDuck

Wait a second -- what happened to the TAT lady that not even a week ago claimed that there was NO decline in tourism, that everything was 'back to normal', and that at most they foresee a 1% decline in tourism over the next year -- you know, situation A.O.K...?

Where is she in all of this?

That 50% mark, by the way, is just for 2008, based on this statement -- so a LOT is being buffered by the rest of the year -- let's just see how sober the number for the first quarter of 2009 end up being.

With currently, in the 'high season', many hi-end hotels that are used to having 80-90% occupancy, having less than 2-3% occupancy, I feel that this 50% value is highly creative, squeezing everything they can out of 'arrivals', not necessarily 'tourists' (remember, they suddenly switched to using 'airport arrival numbers a couple of weeks ago, to claim that numbers were 'good').

As those on the ground can attest, the real numbers are very different, and very sobering, and there is only so much and so far the spinmeisters can stretch things, before reality collapses over them.

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## gjbkk

> Wait a second -- what happened to the TAT lady that not even a week ago claimed that there was NO decline in tourism, that everything was 'back to normal', and that at most they foresee a 1% decline in tourism over the next year


Now you see, you can't believe a word of the military/PAD proxy PM Abhisit Vejjajiva Government  :Smile:

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## DrB0b

> Doesn't really matter, chick flu, global meltdown, PAD or coup, farangs numbers may dwindle for a month or two but they'll keep heading this way for as long as they can get their rocks off at the right price. Never mind the other attractions like temples, culture, food and scenery, next to the women they're little more than noise.


There's more to Thailand than Pattaya or Nana Plaza :Sad: . In five years of running a tourist business here in Chiang Mai I'd say that about 1% of our customers have been sex tourists.

BTW, any more details on how to actually get any of this free money?

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## Muadib

Watch the shiny object... I wonder just who they think they are fooling with these bullshit numbers???

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## gjbkk

> Marketing Miss Phatmat Wongphatthanasiri added that it should take at least four to six months to get the embattled tourism industry back on track.


 
^





> Where is she in all of this?


 
in a world of her own

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## keda

> Wait a second -- what happened to the TAT lady that not even a week ago claimed that there was NO decline in tourism, that everything was 'back to normal', and that at most they foresee a 1% decline in tourism over the next year -- you know, situation A.O.K...?
> 
> Where is she in all of this?


That's been covered, the situation's changed and now TAT needs more baht from the pot so the farangs are staying away till they get it, then the farangs will flow back. So easy, sometimes I wish I were a Thai.

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## watterinja

> So only half the expected tourists have come. Don't worry, the Thais are working on them too....


The Physics of Black Holes... fatal attractors...

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## terry57

> Funny how they miss the farangs they hate



Foking amasses me when someone trots out tripe like this, more to the point they should ask themselves : 

Why do the Thais think I'm a coont when they like other farang ?

Suppose this dude lives in pattaya.  :Smile:  

Actually I'll go a tad further with this one, how about touring the north east of Thailand and foking meeting the locals out there,  maybe you will get to meet some real nice Thais instead of spruking shite like your post.

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## terry57

> Until they get rid of the lese majeste law I don't see how could tourism possibly recover. In no other place in the world you risk to be jailed for not standing up in a cinema




For fok sake can some bastard please put this flogger in jail.  Foking muppets writing absolute bullshit piss me off.      :deadhorsebig:

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## EmperorTud

^ he's right though Tel.

That Thai boy that did it not so long ago has had threats of legal action, death threats and been assaulted in the street.

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## EmperorTud

I’ve seen tons and tons of movies in Thailand - and always wondered if maybe somebody missed the moment and kept on sitting and what would happen. You never know. Or an unknowing tourist? Well, next to Chotisak - two seats away exactly - sat Nawamin Witthayakul, who filed the lèse majesté charges against Chotisak when the latter refused to move. Chotisak faces 3-15 years in prison.

LÃ¨se MajestÃ© Charges For Keeping Cinema Seat

_A Thai woman arrested for refusing to stand as the royal anthem played in a Bangkok cinema faces up to 15 years in prison, police said Tuesday._
_Ratchapin Chancharoen, 28, was arrested Sunday [june 15] evening and charged with insulting Thailand’s King Bhumibol Adulyadej by not standing during the anthem, which plays to a montage of royal portraits before the screening of every film._


Lese-majeste : woman arrested for refusing to stand in a Bangkok cinema « Thailand Crisis

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## brixtonbwoy

it happened to me the first time i was in bkk about 7 years ago.i didnt know you had to stand during the anthem.i was at the cinema and luckily the girl i was with dragged me out of my seat and saved me from a kicking.it was close though a bit like that scene in 1984

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## Jools

Tourist authorities once acted under the principle that if you give tourists reasons to come...they WILL. There is ample room for argument that Thai attitudes hinge on xenophobia and lack of education. This is a quick way of getting votes but not easily undone when you are trying to attract the foreigners that you revile.

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## brixtonbwoy

anyway if there are so few tourists why havent prices started falling.i havent noticed any reductions everything just keeps going up.bring on the recession!

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## keda

> _A Thai woman arrested for refusing to stand as the royal anthem played in a Bangkok cinema faces up to 15 years in prison, police said Tuesday._ _Ratchapin Chancharoen, 28, was arrested Sunday [june 15] evening and charged with insulting Thailands King Bhumibol Adulyadej by not standing during the anthem, which plays to a montage of royal portraits before the screening of every film._[/url]


Can only hope, but awareness and acknowledgment is beginning to trickle to the lower and middle classes that Thai politics and other repressive institutions are transparently corrupt. Those at the bottom may be more concerned with not missing the harvest than whether or not the airports are open, because it does not directly affect them, but more are less afraid to voice uncomplimentary opinions than they were just a few years ago. This is also coming at a time of change, away from what most Thais have been weaned on and know nothing else. 

Also, more people than before _seem_ prepared to register anger and discontent, which can be a good sign or ominous, depending on many variables...won't be sweet, major shifts never are, but fingers, eyes and legs crossed that it turns out better for the next generation than it has been for the last several. 

Lese majesty must be first or very early to go, as observed by HM and echoed by his representatives, to demonstrate his wise and forward thinking approach. It is a graven image that should be worshipped by choice, and HM got that bit right. Good, because as long it remains about the only law in this country that is ruthlessly enforced, many will be torn between their perception of freedom and the horrible consequences of saying or doing or not saying or doing the right or wrong thing, so removal is a catalyst for openness and truth for the people, albeit with the wisdom of their elders. 


Should qualify, though it's a fairly common opinion, still can't see more than a continuing pretence at democracy here, at very best, but a move in that direction is better than nothing and quite frankly, the current generation of unconscionable leaders well deserve to be punished for selfishly failing to consider that people with nothing have little to lose.

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## gjbkk

It is too useful a law to rid of quickly as it sever the ones in power. But thanks to the PAD it's vile existence is now being challenged by some.

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## Butterfly

> Until they get rid of the lese majeste law I don't see how could tourism possibly recover.


oh yeah, because the first thing tourists check when they go to a country for the sun and beaches, is to check the local laws  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Wallalai

> If some of the farangs you say they hate acted like human beings instead of total ass holes maybe things would be different.


Most of the long timer and expats living in Thailand act like respectuous people and have learned the way to live a happy life here, when the 2 weeks tourists act like porks left alone in a vegetable field. Don't pack all the foreigners in the same bag plz.

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## phuketbound

> anyway if there are so few tourists why havent prices started falling.i havent noticed any reductions everything just keeps going up.bring on the recession!


Prices are falling. Most hotels are giving discounts left and right according to many websites. I'm heading there in February. A good time to go, as there will probably less tourists, and lower airfare compared to now.

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## Repubblicano

> Originally Posted by Repubblicano
> 
> Until they get rid of the lese majeste law I don't see how could tourism possibly recover.
> 
> 
> oh yeah, because the first thing tourists check when they go to a country for the sun and beaches, is to check the local laws


Now that the whole world has seen the threat they pose , they surely do.
300,000 tourists stranded are something difficult to forget.

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## terry57

> ^ he's right though Tel.
> 
> That Thai boy that did it not so long ago has had threats of legal action, death threats and been assaulted in the street.





Shite,  first time Ive ever heard of that, I wonder if it only applies to Thais and not farang ?

Foking hope so or Bkkandrew will be in jail forever.  :Smile:  


Alright then I apologize to the other dude that I abused, very foking unusual for myself to make a shocking mistake like that innit ?    :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :spam2:

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## 0bsidian

> In five years of running a tourist business here in Chiang Mai I'd say that about 1% of our customers have been sex tourists.


is it written on there forehead?

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## DrB0b

> Originally Posted by DrB0b
> 
> In five years of running a tourist business here in Chiang Mai I'd say that about 1% of our customers have been sex tourists.
> 
> 
> is it written on there forehead?


It's a small town with a small sex-tourist area, most guest-house/bar/gogo/tour people know each other and the people who work in the tourist areas and I generally know exactly where our guests go. The ones who do want sex are not shy about asking where to get it and I'm quite happy to tell them as I get a commission.

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## terry57

^

Yo Bobby boy,

Now your talking me old mucker. I'll give you the good oil, if you give me the inside info on the lovely little brown bomb shells I'll split your commission with you.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Confused: 


Urm,  thanks bobby.    :Smile:

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## keda

DrBob: Is that 'small town' representative of Thailand? - have you ever been outside that 'small town' to check if sex tourists do indeed exist beyond the 1% you've managed to identify? Is there life beyond that horizon?

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## DrB0b

> DrBob: Is that 'small town' representative of Thailand? - have you ever been outside that 'small town' to check if sex tourists do indeed exist beyond the 1% you've managed to identify? Is there life beyond that horizon?


I said 1% of *OUR* customer's, not Thailand's customers, *MY* business's customers. I'm not making any claims for anybody else. It's bloody obvious that lots of people come to Thailand for sex, I'm not stupid enough to think otherwise.

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## DrB0b

> ^
> 
> Yo Bobby boy,
> 
> Now your talking me old mucker. I'll give you the good oil, if you give me the inside info on the lovely little brown bomb shells I'll split your commission with you.   
> 
> 
> Urm,  thanks bobby.


Nett price for you Tezza. Shane's still available if you want him again this year :Wink:

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## Begbie

> But these figures are pure fiction in any case. According to their statistics I am in actual fact 13 tourists in 2008 thus far and will magically be another one when I land tomorrow. 
> 
> Amongst my circle of friends, most appear as a similar number of tourists in their crude figures. I suspect it is this underlying number that makes up the bulk of the 50% number.


No information whether they're counting real people or just the number of bodies who enter so you could be correct.

This may explain the reason for the change in the visa free entry rules back to 14 days only for those entering overland. These people will now have to enter the country 50% more often than when the alowance was 30 days and hence push the tourists arrivals back up.

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## DaffyDuck

> Now you see, you can't believe a word of the military/PAD proxy PM Abhisit Vejjajiva Government


  :Sleeping:

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## DaffyDuck

> There's more to Thailand than Pattaya or Nana Plaza. In five years of running a tourist business here in Chiang Mai I'd say that about 1% of our customers have been sex tourists.


Try explaining that to EmperorTurd, who seems to believe that all he needs to know about tourism, he can learn from his one bar he goes to...

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## EmperorTud

> Try explaining that to EmperorTurd, who seems to believe that all he needs to know about tourism, he can learn from his one bar he goes to...


Erm, no. Nice try at revisionism there though, sure you're not related to Ant?

Not many sex-tourists head to Chiang Mai anyway, you'd get a different demographic on Sukhumvit in Bangkok and Pattaya.

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## NickA

> The ones who do want sex are not shy about asking where to get it and I'm quite happy to tell them as I get a commission.

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## 0bsidian

Thailand cannot survive on rice alone.

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## 3737ipod

> Originally Posted by brixtonbwoy
> 
> 
> anyway if there are so few tourists why havent prices started falling.i havent noticed any reductions everything just keeps going up.bring on the recession!
> 
> 
> Prices are falling. Most hotels are giving discounts left and right according to many websites. I'm heading there in February. A good time to go, as there will probably less tourists, and lower airfare compared to now.


plus 49.00-50.00 baht to the pound,prices are at there high season level in most of the bars, even though the pattaya is empty.airlines are still putting up there prices for the easter hollidays,fuel surcharges are still high,trouble brewing in bangkok as the red shirts start to cause problems at the parliment building.
personally i cant see much good news on the horizon,will there be anyone who wants to come here on holliday?

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## keda

Still have crumpet, yes they'll come, though those I've spoken with the past couple of days have been feeling the pinch, and they're usually loose with the dosh.

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## phuketbound

> Originally Posted by phuketbound
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by brixtonbwoy
> ...


Well maybe you should just change your attitude, and look for good news. Surely, there has to be some. Yes, people still will go there on a holiday. Maybe not as many this year, but come on, Amazing Thailand. (where's that Thai flag).  :Smile:

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## Luckydog

> Originally Posted by davearn
> 
> 
> phuket is well dead
> 
> 
> And I assume the others venues are dead, too.
> 
> I good time to go or be there.


*Pattaya isn't dead. It's choka.......*

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## pickel

People still go to England for holidays, and it's bloody expensive there and the women are ugly, so I think the punters will be back here soon regardless of the exchange rates.  :Smile:  Unless there's a civil war.  :Sad:

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## Spin

> People still go to England for holidays


This is true and the very weak pound will help draw a few visitors there when the frost thaws and "summertime" :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  kicks in.

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## bkkandrew

> People still go to England for holidays, and it's bloody expensive there


Incorrect, at the current exchange rate it is cheaper for me to drink and eat out (comparable western food) in an English pub than one in Thailand.

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## robuzo

> Originally Posted by pickel
> 
> People still go to England for holidays
> 
> 
> This is true and the very weak pound will help draw a few visitors there when the frost thaws and "summertime" kicks in.


 Conversely, who would still come to Thailand were the women mostly unattractive, the food lousy and dear, and the weather usually miserable as is true of Olde Blighty?  My point being, even without the hedonistic elements England is still interesting, whereas Thailand- not so much.

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## pickel

> it is cheaper for me to drink and eat out (comparable western food) in an English pub than one in Thailand.


People don't come to Thailand for the western food.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## bkkandrew

^Are you suggesting tourists to Thailand go hungry or confine themselves to noodle stands, sipping meagre rations of water to avoid the price of beer?

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## pickel

> Are you suggesting tourists to Thailand go hungry or confine themselves to noodle stands, sipping meagre rations of water to avoid the price of beer?


You're being irrational. They don't have to eat at noodle stands and even the most expensive beer I've had in Thailand is still cheaper than at home. Alot of western food is cheaper here, I guess you choose the high class restaurants. And if peoples desires are high class restaurants serving western food, why would they come here? I've yet to hear anyone say they come here for the western food.

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## sabang

It's probably the package tour market that is suffering the most. After an absolutely abysmal start to high season thanks to the airport being closed, numbers in Pattaya have rebounded quite well. But many of these are repeat visitors, and staying in lower end hotels and guesthouses. Apparently, the vacancy rates at the Marriott and Amari are still high.

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## sabang

The whinging here never ceases to amaze me, particularly from resident expats. Personally, I can find quite OK western food here for a reasonable price, and obviously Asian food is no problem. The 'real' price compared to Oz & UK has gone up due to exchange rate movements, but I would hardly call Thailand expensive. The prawn phad ka phao from a local shanty is nice, plenty of fresh prawns, made to order (ie not too much chilli) and at 25bht, damn cheap. Washed down with a large Leo (on ice- nice n cold) at 42bht, I'm not complaining.

Then again, I would never eat in one of those mediocre, overpriced English or Irish themed pubs you get in Bangkok in particular, but also Pattaya and Phuket. Beats me why someone would pay 300bht odd for a soggy microwaved pie, mash n peas, with a gravy strait out of a packet- I can get a decent steak for less. I love a pint of guinness, but with 150 bht being the absolute cheapest I can find in Pattaya (maggie mays) and 220bht more average, it's an occasional treat only.

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## phuketbound

For all you expats, have the prices risen much in the last year or two? Due to the economic slump, the prices, especially for foreign products has jumped drastically here in Korea. What you say?

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## bkkandrew

> Originally Posted by bkkandrew
> 
> Are you suggesting tourists to Thailand go hungry or confine themselves to noodle stands, sipping meagre rations of water to avoid the price of beer?
> 
> 
> You're being irrational. They don't have to eat at noodle stands and even the most expensive beer I've had in Thailand is still cheaper than at home. Alot of western food is cheaper here, I guess you choose the high class restaurants. And if peoples desires are high class restaurants serving western food, why would they come here? I've yet to hear anyone say they come here for the western food.


Wrong on all counts.

For example - The Black Swan charges B220 for a pint of Heineken. That is 
₤4.90 for the tourists who change up in the UK at the current rate.

Food-wise, a pizza at Little Italy is about B350, which is ₤7.80, hardly a 'high-class' joint, yet does not compare well with the Pizza Express outlests in the UK, which manage to serve up a pizza for ₤5.99.

So, in your world, what do you think tourists eat and drink when they come here?

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## sabang

^ Well, if they got any sense (or care what they spend) they don't eat at places like that.  :Smile: 

I know Bkk is more expensive (capitals usually are), but in the Soi 8 Bar, kiwi owned, a few months ago you could get quite a nice steak sandwich with a decent serve of chips (real chips) for 120 bht. I doubt it would've changed much since.

Around here, a nice thin crust pizza from Ticino's Italian restaurant is 200- 240 bht, but I consider pizza in this country to be no bargain.

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## DaffyDuck

> My point being, even without the hedonistic elements England is still interesting, whereas Thailand- not so much.


I take it you've never been to Thailand, then? Maybe you should go for your first time, so you know what you are talking about ...  :mid:

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## pickel

> Wrong on all counts.  For example - The Black Swan charges B220 for a pint of Heineken. That is ₤4.90 for the tourists who change up in the UK at the current rate.  Food-wise, a pizza at Little Italy is about B350, which is ₤7.80, hardly a 'high-class' joint, yet does not compare well with the Pizza Express outlests in the UK, which manage to serve up a pizza for ₤5.99.  So, in your world, what do you think tourists eat and drink when they come here?


You're quoting restaurants themed on countries other than Thailand. People who eat there should perhaps holiday in those countries. They deserve to be gouged.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## terry57

> The whinging here never ceases to amaze me, particularly from residing expats. Personally, I can find quite OK western food here for a reasonsable price, and obviously Asian food is no problem. The 'real' price compared to Oz & UK has gone up due to exchange rate movements, but I would hardly call Thailand expensive. The prawn phad ka phao from a local shanty is nice, plenty of fresh prawns, made to order (ie not too much chilli) and at 25bht, damn cheap. Washed down with a large Leo (on ice- nice n cold) at 42bht, I'm not complaining.
> 
> Then again, I would never eat in one of those mediocre, overpriced English or Irish themed pubs you get in Bangkok in particular, but also Pattaya and Phuket. Beats me why someone would pay 300bht odd for a soggy microwaved pie, mash n peas, with a gravy strait out of a packet- I can get a decent steak for less. I love a pint of guinness, but with 150 bht being the absolute cheapest I can find in Pattaya (maggie mays) and 220bht more average, it's an occasional treat only.



Great post mate and so foking true.

I think me and you should team up for a top night out eating the cheap local food and with the money we save we can drink shit loads of Guinness as I love it.

We cant be the only buggers that love the local food ? When I'm in country thats all I eat and when I'm in Aussie thats all I cook.  The guys that love to eat there fat laden bacon and eggs with a side serve of foking soggy chips can bash them up there shite shoot as thats where they belong. 

To be fair a few times a year after a huge night on the piss is kosher but thats about it but to front up every foking day is Sickining.

Foking pies and mushy pea's for fok sake,    Jeessus absolute bollicks.

As far as going into an Irish or English theme pub goes, fok that also,  I'd rather sit outside and have a nice drink with the locals.

Why the fok would one come all the way to Thailand to sit inside a foking theme pub ? I suppose the correct answer would be : The same sort of punter that comes over to spend his time shagging whores.

Aint got no problem with that but there not my sort of people.  :Smile:

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## robuzo

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> 
> My point being, even without the hedonistic elements England is still interesting, whereas Thailand- not so much.
> 
> 
> I take it you've never been to Thailand, then? Maybe you should go for your first time, so you know what you are talking about ...


 Uh, I'll refrain from joining in a pissing contest over who's been here longer, but will say you have it exactly backwards- it's the wide-eyed first-timers who tend to find the exotic "culture" here so interesting.  Compared to China, Japan, or Indonesia (Bali), Thailand doesn't really have much depth when it comes to culture, unless you are into recycled Lao, Khmer or Burmese temples, dancing, music, animist shrines, etc.  But then again, perhaps you are easily impressed, and I wouldn't want to burst your bubble.

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## terry57

> For example - The Black Swan was charging B220 for a pint of Heineken . That is 
> ₤4.90 for the tourists who change up in the UK at the current rate.



Matey,  theres no foking way on gods earth that I would pay B220 for a foking pint of Heineken whether it was in Bangkok or foking Tim Buk Too. 

Foking madness, nothing less.

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## EmperorTud

> I take it you've never been to Thailand, then? Maybe you should go for your first time, so you know what you are talking about ...


He's talking about the plethora of historical and unusual places to visit in the UK and the fact that under the surface, Thailand doesn't offer much other than hedonistic interests. And he's right.

Britain gets more than twice the amount of tourists than Thailand.

In my city of under half a million people there are more museums and historical places of interest in one single street alone than in the whole of Bangkok.

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## terry57

> Compared to China, Japan, or Indonesia (Bali), Thailand doesn't really have much depth when it comes to culture, unless you are into recycled Lao, Khmer or Burmese temples, dancing, music, animist shrines, etc.




Erm,   ain't all this stuff culture ? 

If one spends time kicking around Thailand you will see there culture at work everyday especially around there Wats and up the north, but on the other hand if one is in Pattaya one will only see mongers and slappers and on this point I will agree its lacking inthe culture department.

Anyway never mind, carry foking on,  What ever gets you off.   :Smile:

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## phuketbound

> Originally Posted by DaffyDuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by robuzo
> ...


You don't have to be wide-eyed to enjoy the temples, and Thai culture. You can't just get Thai food in any other place, then in Thailand. Neither can you get the massages the same in any other country. Don't forget that they have one of the most beautiful beaches in the world. 
You can't compare China, Japan and Indonesia to Thailand. They are all unique. 

As for England. there are a lot of tourists that go there, but for a different reason. England is expensive. London is touristy no doubt, but people will go there for a different reason than Thailand. I know I did.

----------


## bkkandrew

> Originally Posted by bkkandrew
> 
> Wrong on all counts. For example - The Black Swan charges B220 for a pint of Heineken. That is ₤4.90 for the tourists who change up in the UK at the current rate. Food-wise, a pizza at Little Italy is about B350, which is ₤7.80, hardly a 'high-class' joint, yet does not compare well with the Pizza Express outlests in the UK, which manage to serve up a pizza for ₤5.99. So, in your world, what do you think tourists eat and drink when they come here?
> 
> 
> You're quoting restaurants themed on countries other than Thailand. People who eat there should perhaps holiday in those countries. They deserve to be gouged.


So you are now saying that tourists to Thailand should only eat Thai food. I think that clears up your rather strange view on the subject.

----------


## bkkandrew

> England is expensive.


Not after the pound's collapse. For instance it is 34% down against the Baht since the peak. 

 :deadhorsebig:

----------


## pickel

> So you are now saying that tourists to Thailand should only eat Thai food. I think that clears up your rather strange view on the subject.


I was referring to overpriced themed bars and restaurants. There are plenty of other options for western food that is cheaper than they would find at home.

----------


## bkkandrew

> Originally Posted by bkkandrew
> 
> So you are now saying that tourists to Thailand should only eat Thai food. I think that clears up your rather strange view on the subject.
> 
> 
> I was referring to overpriced themed bars and restaurants. There are plenty of other options for western food that is cheaper than they would find at home.


Righto, so make some suggestions in order that they can be compared with similar class venues in the UK.

----------


## pickel

> Righto, so make some suggestions in order that they can be compared with similar class venues in the UK.


The one right across the street from me.  :Wink: 

Seriously Andrew, you need to get out more if you're having trouble finding cheap places to eat western food. Or perhaps away from Sukhumvit.

----------


## bkkandrew

> Originally Posted by bkkandrew
> 
> Righto, so make some suggestions in order that they can be compared with similar class venues in the UK.
> 
> 
> The one right across the street from me.


So name it and some example prices. Also what type of place it is and how likely it would be found by tourists. It isn't that hard unless you are being deliberately difficult to pin down.




> Seriously Andrew, you need to get out more if you're having trouble finding cheap places to eat western food. Or perhaps away from Sukhumvit.


Seriously Pickel, I do not. I eat out every day here, specifically at places that are out of the way, but that's it - they are out of the way from tourists, who would be unlikely to encounter them.

Also, as I lived away from the Sukhumvit area for 8-years and rarely eat there by choice, I don't need any tips on the matter from you.

No - I am asking you to give an example in order to prove your case, as I belivee you are making things up as you go along.

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## pickel

I see why you are good friends with Tud, you're both stubborn and like to argue about petty things. I will not give the location of this particular restaurant as it gives my exact location on an "anonymous" message board. I can tell you that it's customers are 99% farang. Today I had a homemade bacon cheeseburger and french fries for 130 baht. That same meal in my country would be 250 baht baht at the cheapest and would average about 350-400 baht. Last night I had a big portion of tasty spaghetti carbonara and garlic toast for 150 baht. That meal would be at least 350 baht and around 500 baht in my country.

Khao Sahn road is about as touristy as it gets, I've had western food there for cheap. I've even had western food for cheap on Sukhumvit, but I stay out of the theme pubs.

So, you think I'm making things up? Nothing I can do about that except think you're an idiot. End of discussion on my part, have a good day and enjoy your overpriced theme pub.

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## Butterfly

> I see why you are good friends with Tud, you're both stubborn and like to argue about petty things


drinking buddies actually, speak volume about who they are  :Smile: 





> Today I had a homemade bacon cheeseburger and french fries for 130 baht. That same meal in my country would be 250 baht baht at the cheapest and would average about 350-400 baht. Last night I had a big portion of tasty spaghetti carbonara and garlic toast for 150 baht. That meal would be at least 350 baht and around 500 baht in my country.


sounds like a good deal actually, always interested about new place. Send me the address by PM if you will  :Wink:

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## EmperorTud

In Thailand, Western food is mostly muck so any comparison in price must take into account the poorer quality of ingredients, preparation and inferior end product.

I tried the EZ's sausage place in the local food court yesterday and was pleasantly surprised. I always have avoided it before for some reason but I enjoyed the chicken BBQ steak thingie at 65thb. Probably because I was starving.

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## bkkandrew

> I see why you are good friends with Tud, you're both stubborn and like to argue about petty things.


As I merely asked you to back up your (false) assertion with an example, I guess you have said that because you are embarrassed and getting touchy.




> I will not give the location of this particular restaurant as it gives my exact location on an "anonymous" message board.


Of course you won't, because that way we have no idea if it is a tourist-frequented area or not (which was the matter at hand). Also, it could be a dingy shack on the Khao San Road, which would be comparable with a greasy spoon diner in the UK.




> I can tell you that it's customers are 99% farang.


So are most gaffs on the KSR... :mid: 




> Today I had a homemade bacon cheeseburger and french fries for 130 baht. That same meal in my country would be 250 baht baht at the cheapest and would average about 350-400 baht.


Wrong again - do try and keep up - my local country pub in UK does exactly the same for Sterling equivelent of B135 (at tourist exchange rates). That type of deal is common in post credit-crunch UK.




> Khao Sahn road is about as touristy as it gets, I've had western food there for cheap.


Ah - so you are on the KSR  :rofl: 




> I've even had western food for cheap on Sukhumvit


As I have asked before - where? 




> I stay out of the theme pubs.


So do I.




> So, you think I'm making things up?


Yes - apart from the KSR part.




> Nothing I can do about that except think you're an idiot.


An idiot thinks I am an idiot. Excellent.




> End of discussion on my part


Because you have no facts to back up your opinion with.




> have a good day and enjoy your overpriced theme pub.


I will actually, as it is the g/f's birthday and we are going to our favourite Thai restaurant between Rama 9 and Phetburi. No idea why you think it is 'themed', apart from the 'theme' being Thai...

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## bkkandrew

> sounds like a good deal actually, always interested about new place. Send me the address by PM if you will


Tired of ladyboy rejection, Butterfly now aims to chat up Western blokes. Hey ho - enjoy guys!

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## good2bhappy

^ they might be cheaper!

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## bkkandrew

^Even when converting back to Sterling!  :rofl:

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## robuzo

> Originally Posted by robuzo
> 
> 
> 
> Compared to China, Japan, or Indonesia (Bali), Thailand doesn't really have much depth when it comes to culture, unless you are into recycled Lao, Khmer or Burmese temples, dancing, music, animist shrines, etc.
> 
> 
> Erm,   ain't all this stuff culture ?


Well, there is culture and there is Culture.  Thai cuisine is the best in the region, hands down- the only one that deserves to be called a "cuisine" in my opinion.  But insofar as world-class historical sites or architecture, for example, Thailand has very little to offer, the Lanna architecture being an exception.  One doesn't have to compare to Thailand to heavyweights like Japan, India or China- Thailand has nothing comparable to Angkor, Pagan, Borobodor (not to mention Bali), or even Luang Prabang.

As to the natural environment, I think the major beaches are a disgrace.  Samui might look prettier than Blackpool, but while the sea is warmer I doubt it is much cleaner. And only a Scandanavian or Anglo-Teuton could go to Hua Hin and think they'd found a lovely beach- blech. You can find OK beaches if you get away from the popular areas, but it is certainly a lot easier to find good beaches with excellent diving in the Philippines, for example, than here.  The national parks could be good, but while the government has been promising to go big into eco-tourism for years the facilities are still woefully sub-standard in most parks, and although the birdwatching is still good in a lot of places the wildlife here continues to diminish in number.  If you are serious about seeing Asian megafauna there is not much point in wasting your time in Thailand when you can go to India or Indonesia.

What Thailand has had going for it is hospitality, attentive to the point of meretricious even in the non-red-light areas, and a very good travel infrastructure compared to other countries in the region.  Nevertheless, rightly or wrongly I don't think the locals can be considered exactly friendly in BKK, Samui, Phuket or Pattaya (Chiang Mai being the exception, where despite the ruination of the charms of the town itself over the past 20 years the people are still relatively nice).  If other countries in the region (I'm talking to you, Burma) could ever get their shit together I think they could eat Thailand's lunch.

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## bkkandrew

^Agree on all points, apart from cuisine. Maybe you haven't lived in other parts of the world, but I would consider that Carribean, Mexican, Italian and French food ahead of Thai, but I guess that's just down to taste...

NB - I notice Pickle retired early on his Koh San Road 'retreat'! :Smile:

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## EmperorTud

Pickel is on Soi Rambutri.

We are having him watched.

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## Butterfly

Pickel gave me the name of this tourist place, and I happen to know this to be true, so unlike Bkka and friends, he is not talking out of his ass

stick to the food at the OnNut beer garden, guys  :Wink:

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## sabang

If a Bangkok resident can't find decent western food at a decent price, I have only two suggestions-

1:- cast your net wider, or
2:- stick to Asian food.

If neither satisfies, swampybum is open again.  :mid:

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## Butterfly

Pattaya has also a nice choice of cheap western food, and Manhattan is one of the best value I have seen there, if you don't mind spending about 2,000 THB per person for a complete meal in a nice NY steakhouse

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## bkkandrew

> If a Bangkok resident can't find decent western food at a decent price, I have only two suggestions-
> 
> 1:- cast your net wider, or
> 2:- stick to Asian food.
> 
> If neither satisfies, swampybum is open again.


FFS Sabang, I never normally bark at you, but read the foking thread title - This is about tourists, *not* expats...

 :deadhorsebig:

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## bkkandrew

> Pattaya has also a nice choice of cheap western food, and Manhattan is one of the best value I have seen there, if you don't mind spending about 2,000 THB per person for a complete meal in a nice NY steakhouse


There you go. This is roughly 50% more expensive than a comparable meal in the UK right now. So your 'best value' is 50% more expensive than similar in the UK.

Now will you get it?

 :deadhorsebig:

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## bkkandrew

> Pickel gave me the name of this tourist place, and I happen to know this to be true, so unlike Bkka and friends, he is not talking out of his ass


What to be true - the fact that a burger and fries is the same price as the UK? Right, so then, what sort of place is it, typical Thai dirt shack that would be shut down in 5-minutes flat if operating in the UK, or an establishment that would rival a well-healed country pub in the UK?

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## sabang

> Pattaya has also a nice choice of cheap western food, and Manhattan is one of the best value I have seen there, if you don't mind spending about 2,000 THB per person for a complete meal in a nice NY steakhouse


Thats well posh mate! They do some specials now too, which helps. I'll go and spend that sort of money at the likes of Manie's, Matahari or Mantra maybe thrice a year. Wife has to drive me back home.




> I never normally bark at you


Woof!




> This is about tourists, not expats...


They should read this forum then. Some tourists do not give a **** what they spend. Up to them.

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## keda

I expect to be in Bkk if not Cambodia soon into the new year. Any non-cryptic recs for a good roast lamb and trimmings, or Indian? 

Anyone into islamic food and esp a real delish home made skhooch (? difficult to spell the guttural), try the one on the corner by the first alley in soi 3 coming from Nana, but not advised to more than browse their Indian menu.

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## EmperorTud

> Pickel gave me the name of this tourist place, and I happen to know this to be true


Not 'Oh My Cod' was it?

Mediocre.




> If a Bangkok resident can't find decent western food at a decent price


Most places are forgettable and over-priced in Bangkok.

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## bkkandrew

> I expect to be in Bkk if not Cambodia soon into the new year. Any non-cryptic recs for a good roast lamb and trimmings, or Indian?


The Londoner's Sunday roast buffet includes lamb, which is excellent. B550 IIRC all-in (5-courses). If you get there between 6 and 7 drinks are 2 for one.....

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## pickel

> Not 'Oh My Cod' was it?


One of the worst meals I've ever had was there, and is more the reason I hate "theme" restaurants.

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## pickel

> Pickel is on Soi Rambutri.  We are having him watched.


Must be one hell of a zoom on that camera.

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## brixtonbwoy

so with the exchange rate are we gonna see hordes of rich thais on package tours to merry old england for a cheap roast dinner?

no i dont think so either

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## pickel

> There you go. This is roughly 50% more expensive than a comparable meal in the UK right now. So your 'best value' is 50% more expensive than similar in the UK.  Now will you get it?


Really?? Now will you get it??




> *       Restaurant prices soar    * 
> 
>                         By         Jonathan Prynn, Evening Standard                                                                       12.09.06                                             Add your view
> 
>                                              The cream: rising menu prices are blamed on soaring costs at restaurants such as Gordon Ramsay's               
> *Look here too*Book now: Dinner and show deals The price of eating out in London has soared almost 50 per cent over the past decade  -  more than three times the rate of inflation. 
> The rise was revealed in the 2007 Zagat guide to London restaurants. 
> It means that the bill for dinner for two at one of London's top-rated restaurants is now close to £200, putting it well out of reach of most Londoners. 
> The price has spiralled in recent years as restaurateurs have passed on sharply higher costs to their customers.
> ...

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## sabang

> Connaught Restaurant £55 £81*


I had Xmas lunch at this place, after it became a Ramsay restaurant. 
Must've been 8-10 years ago I guess. 
It was alright, but to be honest I though it was a bluddy rip-off really. Nothing special.
I was horrified to find out, a couple of years subsequent, Ramsay took over the venerable old Savoy Grill too.  :Sad:  
So called 'fine' hotel dining in London has become like a brand franchise.

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## keda

^97^
Many tx, it'll be afternoon, will send the bill to you if I throw up... :Wink:

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## hellofriends

us brits dont like being stuck in airports for days on end while fanatics are planting bombs all over bangkok and innocent people are being killed .

and there is the little issue about the credit crunch and the terrible exchange rate , that might have something to do with the decline in tourists

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## hellofriends

us brits donot want to change our currency to euro , while the pound has lost value - the tourists are flocking to england to spend money instead of us flocking to theyre countries

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## Khun Sabai

^  See you at ASDA ..................I have tons of Euros    :irish:

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## bkkandrew

> Originally Posted by bkkandrew
> 
> There you go. This is roughly 50% more expensive than a comparable meal in the UK right now. So your 'best value' is 50% more expensive than similar in the UK. Now will you get it?
> 
> 
> Really?? Now will you get it??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right - now you show how dim you really are. That article is dated September 2006 - the peak of the market, at the time when the pond was strongest and pre-credit crunch. The whole point is that things have now changed.

I note you have still declined to give any details as to the type of establishment and location with reference to tourists that I asked earlier for you to back up your claims.

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## Butterfly

> There you go. This is roughly 50% more expensive than a comparable meal in the UK right now. So your 'best value' is 50% more expensive than similar in the UK.


are you out of your mind ? Food in the UK is outrageously priced and mostly shit, unless you go for the top ones and they are not 50 UKP per person. I seriously doubt you can eat a NY steak in England for less than 20 Euros in a nice setup. I can find a few in Paris, but Paris is great for cheap quality food, an exception. In NY, any decent meal is at least 100 USD per person these days. So Manhatan at 50 Euros for a complete meal in a very nice environment is a fucking steal I tell you.




> Mantra maybe thrice a year.


Love the Mantra, might go again this week. Again, great bargain except for a few "exception" dishes. Also great steak reasonably priced, but not cheap. Love the setup. Good Indian food too. Another great value in Pattaya, you wouldn't get that kind of deal in Europe for that quality.

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## bkkandrew

> Originally Posted by bkkandrew
> 
> There you go. This is roughly 50% more expensive than a comparable meal in the UK right now. So your 'best value' is 50% more expensive than similar in the UK.
> 
> 
> are you out of your mind ? Food in the UK is outrageously priced and mostly shit, unless you go for the top ones and they are not 50 UKP per person. I seriously doubt you can eat a NY steak in England for less than 20 Euros in a nice setup. I can find a few in Paris, but Paris is great for cheap quality food, an exception. In NY, any decent meal is at least 100 USD per person these days. So Manhatan at 50 Euros for a complete meal in a very nice environment is a fucking steal I tell you.


Have you been to the UK in the past 4-months?

No?

So you actually have no idea what you are talking about. As per usual.

The answer, by the way, is that virtually all the places I frequent in the UK now have NY steak for less than 20 Euros, which, of course, is 20 pounds. One restaurant I took my friend visiting from NYC (by coincidence) on Boxing Day had a two-for-one offer at 15 pounds, as long as you ordered a bottle of wine at a further 8 pounds. So, wine and two NY steaks for 23 Euros.

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## bkkandrew

> Manhatan at 50 Euros for a complete meal in a very nice environment is a fucking steal I tell you.


 
What planet are you on?  :rofl:

----------


## phuketbound

> Originally Posted by EmperorTud
> 
> Not 'Oh My Cod' was it?
> 
> 
> One of the worst meals I've ever had was there, and is more the reason I hate "theme" restaurants.


You can't be serious? I love the food there. The Cod and chips, and the taters, are excellent! The price isn't cheap, that's for sure, but you pay for quality. 
Damn, I miss that place. Chris is also the host with the most.  :Smile:

----------


## Butterfly

> Have you been to the UK in the past 4-months?


ok so a few desperate restaurants are offering "recession" deals, still it's food in England so it's shit. Again, apart from the top restaurants, all restaurants in the UK are expensive and worthless, unless you are a tasteless Brit like yourself of course  :Smile:

----------


## bkkandrew

> Originally Posted by bkkandrew
> 
> Have you been to the UK in the past 4-months?
> 
> 
> ok so a few desperate restaurants are offering "recession" deals, still it's food in England so it's shit. Again, apart from the top restaurants, all restaurants in the UK are expensive and worthless, unless you are a tasteless Brit like yourself of course


So Butterfly loses the argument and decides just to bash Brits instead. This is after admitting he hasn't been there recently to investigate if anything he is stating as 'fact' is true at all.

----------


## boatboy

[quote=bkkandrew;897535][quote=pickel;897509]


> Wrong on all counts.
> 
> For example - The Black Swan charges B220 for a pint of Heineken. That is 
> ₤4.90 for the tourists who change up in the UK at the current rate.
> 
> Food-wise, a pizza at Little Italy is about B350, which is ₤7.80, hardly a 'high-class' joint, yet does not compare well with the Pizza Express outlests in the UK, which manage to serve up a pizza for ₤5.99.
> 
> So, in your world, what do you think tourists eat and drink when they come here?


I know when I travel OS I eat where the locals eat, fuck having some shit western crap




> The prawn phad ka phao from a local shanty is nice, plenty of fresh prawns, made to order (ie not too much chilli) and at 25bht, damn cheap. Washed down with a large Leo (on ice- nice n cold) at 42bht, I'm not complaining.


Sounds great

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## DaffyDuck

> (...)


So, bkkandrew and all the rest who feel likewise -- if everything is so much better (or equitable) in the UK... well, you know where I'm going with this...

Personally, when I visit Thailand, I eat local food, from local food joints -- (and sure, occasionally I spice it up with a pizza, or something different.)

The point is I certainly don't travel here in order to eat burgers, hot dogs, bangers and mash, pork chops, and fish & chips (or to stay glued to the telly watching me footie).

Who really cares about the prices in Thailand, once you decided to travel here? You can find prices for comparables that are cheaper, the same, or vastly more expensive than in the West -- it depends where you go. I have had a pizza meal for two people for under $10, that tasted awesome. I have also had shitty pizza for $25, a single.

Once you depart on a trip, and you bought the tickets, you either know what local prices are, or you don't care. It's that simple.

----------


## sabang

> Again, apart from the top restaurants, all restaurants in the UK are expensive and worthless,


Not so- expensive perhaps (but gotten a lot cheaper to a foreigner recently), but not necessarily worthless. It is a situation I have seen change for the better over many years of travelling to the UK. It remains the case that the average pub restaurant, or restaurant is basically boring and mediocre, the same old food out of the same old freezer, quite likely from the same wholesaler. 

But there are more and more worthy restaurants, including pub restaurants. The trick is to find them- usually via word of mouth. A random visit to a cozy looking pub is rarely rewarded by anything better than mediocre food, although a cask ale is nice. But there are some damn good places too, and being the UK they can be in some out of the way places- just chancing across them would be sheer luck. The Three Crowns in Brinkworth, near Swindon, and the Butchers Arms in a small village in southern Warwickshire (damn hard to find) are two that spring to mind- and they are excellent. Obviously, there will be many more scattered around the country, frequented by locals and those in the know.

----------


## bkkandrew

> Originally Posted by bkkandrew
> 
> 
> (...)
> 
> 
> So, bkkandrew and all the rest who feel likewise -- if everything is so much better (or equitable) in the UK... well, you know where I'm going with this...


And again, you know nothing - I export from Thailand after retiring from a business that I set up here and around the world. I am not on holiday here.




> Personally, when I visit Thailand, I eat local food, from local food joints -- (and sure, occasionally I spice it up with a pizza, or something different.)
> 
> The point is I certainly don't travel here in order to eat burgers, hot dogs, bangers and mash, pork chops, and fish & chips (or to stay glued to the telly watching me footie).
> 
> Who really cares about the prices in Thailand, once you decided to travel here? You can find prices for comparables that are cheaper, the same, or vastly more expensive than in the West -- it depends where you go. I have had a pizza meal for two people for under $10, that tasted awesome. I have also had shitty pizza for $25, a single.


Mosts tourists will factor in the cost of going to a range of bars and restaurants (along with other activities) at their destination denominated in their local currency. For Brits this now works out more expensive, like for like, with being in the UK. As it used to be a given that Thailand was 'so cheap', this will cause tourist numbers from the UK to drop off significantly.

Once you depart on a trip, and you bought the tickets, you either know what local prices are, or you don't care. It's that simple.[/quote]

----------


## bkkandrew

And as to underscore the point - latest press release from JDW:

Pub chain slashes beer prices

pa.press.net 

Leading pub chain JD Wetherspoon is to slash prices on some drinks and food, offering a pint of beer for less than £1, down to 1989 prices, the company revealed. 

The company, which operates 713 pubs across the UK, said the price reductions on some beer, bottled lager, wine and spirits will run "indefinitely". 

A number of meals will also be offered at £2.99, said the firm, which opened 20 new pubs in the last few months of 2008, creating hundreds of new jobs, despite the economic downturn. 

Wetherspoon's chief executive John Hutson said: "People enjoy going to the pub. However, we appreciate that the economic downturn means that they now have to be more careful with their money. 

"We believe that our new food and drink prices will allow people to enjoy a visit to a Wetherspoon pub without it costing them too much. 

"Unlike most sales that start in January, our offers will not be ending within days, but will run indefinitely." 

Greene King IPA will be cut to 99p a pint, as will a bottle of San Miguel, the company announced. 

Now - for those that need reminding, at the current tourist rate 99p for that pint of IPA (not a bad pint), or that Sam Mig is *44 Baht.*

----------


## Spin

^ Business in the uk are happy to run with promotions like that right now.
The game for many big firms now is solely to survive 2009 by avoiding bankrupcty if I'm not mistaken?

----------


## bkkandrew

^Correct. However it will be nice to get change out of a quid for a decent pint when I get back in a few weeks.  :Smile:

----------


## mikehunt

> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> 
> ^
> 
> Yo Bobby boy,
> 
> Now your talking me old mucker. I'll give you the good oil, if you give me the inside info on the lovely little brown bomb shells I'll split your commission with you.   
> 
> ...


And "Tezza", if you don't want him, I'll have him :saythat: 

Well, if tourism isn't on the decline here, it soon may be.
I am telling every sordid Thai detail to ALL of my friends in Australia. So far, they are shocked about**:

1] the dual pricing scheme (none of them knew).
2] the possibility of being charged for not standing during an anthem in a cinema. As a consequence, none of them will go to a Thai cinema.
3] the lack of enforcement of basic building safety features (particularly fire).
4] Thai police (extortion).
5] as indicated by Thai newspapers, the fascination with gore & bloodshed, which seems to oppose Thai culture. Most of my friends can't understand this "Thai culture is all lovely & beautiful" when confronted with gory newspaper scenes & Thai people who are happy to lie to them & rip them off.
And before anybody says that this happens everywhere in the world, you are correct but by comparison to developed "target" tourist countries, this attitude is few & far bewtween.

The saddest thing is that there are many Thai people who do "truly" embrace other people & are more than helpful. Sadly, these people are an extreme minority here & usually because they fear being ostracised by their countrymen (guilt & xenophobia).

As a South African friend of mine said, "Rob, nothing gets in or out of Thailand." He was talking about information. How true it is. He has owned a business here for about 8 years.

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## brixtonbwoy

has anyone actually eaten a weatherspoon £2.99 meal!

you pay for what you get they are disgusting

----------

