#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Doing Things Legally >  >  Information on marriage/divorce and land

## Yasojack

This following information may not be to everyones liking because of the persons reputation as a person.

There is a series of videos he has made, which are informative for anyone who wishes to marry divorce etc.

I am aware of many expats dislike for the guy, though putting personal issues aside, the info is good and can save money if ever you needed to go the legal way in Thailand.

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## Yasojack



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## Yasojack



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## Yasojack



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## Yasojack



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## Yasojack



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## Yasojack

Just in case anyone thinks i'm plugging his company, i am not i not like the guy and have heard both good and bad about his business.

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## Yasojack



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## Yasojack



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## Yasojack

and here's other info by Siam legal

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## Yasojack



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## jamescollister

Yasojack, can't watch the vids, nets too slow, so no idea what they say.
Read a lot of Thai law and all these lawyers are selling their product, they tell you what you want to hear and forget to mention things they don't want you to hear. They want your money, nothing more.
Thai laws in English are on the net, read them and ask the hard questions to any lawyer you see. 
You will be the only one out of pocket in the end, no matter what the lawyer says. Jim

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## Yasojack

James

The info provided is a guide, so anyone can watch and make there own opinions, many of us have no knowledge of Thai law.
So if you wish to post the thai laws i'm sure people would appreciate.

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## bobo746

Get married,get divorced,do your arse. Easy

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## Necron99

Read the law on Usufracts. Lawyers sell this as an end run around the limits of a 30 year lease.

Now compare the end use of all Farangs with an usufract on their residential land against what the law actually says.

Any piece of paper is as good as another until it is tested in court.

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## jamescollister

> Read the law on Usufracts. Lawyers sell this as an end run around the limits of a 30 year lease.
> 
> Now compare the end use of all Farangs with an usufract on their residential land against what the law actually says.
> 
> Any piece of paper is as good as another until it is tested in court.


Can never be tested in court by an alien.
You would need to contest the law, not the agreement, Usufract are business contracts and as an alien come under treaty agreements. Little things can make a big difference.

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## bobo746

So you own the house she owns the land,will she let you cross her land to get to your(her) house ?

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## jamescollister

> So you own the house she owns the land,will she let you cross her land to get to your(her) house ?


 Probably not her land and not your house, property acquired during marriage is normally communal property.
Alien land laws are separate from family court rulings.

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## stickmansucks

Who is this lawyer ?

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## Rural Surin

All this would depend on the type of _marriage_ bond.
There are a few recognized.

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## Norton

> So you own the house she owns the land,will she let you cross her land to get to your(her) house ?


Usufract not related to ownership of the buildings on the property. Usufract is a contract defining usage and rights of the owner of the Usufract related to the property.

In answer to your question, access to the property cannot be restricted to the holder of the Usufract by the owner of the property.

Ownership of the structures on the property are normally based upon who paid for them.

I have had 3 Usufracts. Two I contested in Thai courts. Both ruled in my favor. 

Also a few other business legal issues taken to Thai court. If you have good records and a good lawyer you will get favorable judgements in Thailand. Proving a foreigner cannot win in Thai court to be a myth.

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## terry57

> If you have good records and a good lawyer you will get favorable judgements in Thailand. Proving a foreigner cannot win in Thai court to be a myth.


Of course,  just more rubbish uttered by the Thai hating brigade.

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## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by bobo746
> 
> So you own the house she owns the land,will she let you cross her land to get to your(her) house ?
> 
> 
> Usufract not related to ownership of the buildings on the property. Usufract is a contract defining usage and rights of the owner of the Usufract related to the property.
> 
> In answer to your question, access to the property cannot be restricted to the holder of the Usufract by the owner of the property.
> 
> ...


Interesting, every shyster lawyer will tell you they have never been tested, yet you have done 2.

So the court turned over 1496 of the civil code and gave you the rights to work, mine farm land in Thailand.

Note you keep good records, can you cite the case numbers.

PS or supply your lawyers name, address etc woul like to talk to him.

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## Norton

> every shyster lawyer will tell you they have never been tested


Two litigated were business/commercial related. No idea if Usafruct intended to protect a foreigner married to a Thai has ever been tested in court.




> So the court turned over 1496 of the civil code and gave you the rights to work, mine farm land in Thailand.


Nope. Usafruct covered what could be done. Specifically erection and improvement of structures, length of Usafruct (30 years in my case), and usage of the property. A Usafruct which contradicted law in Thailand as it relates to foreigners would not be approved. Also states restrictions on owner. For example, money cannot be borrowed on land without agreement by Usafruct holder.

All in accordance with Section 1417 thru 1428 of Thai Civil Code.

Usafruct registered at local land office and affixed to deed (nor Sor Sam or higher). 




> can you cite the case numbers.


Can but won't.




> supply your lawyers name


Done by Deloitte several years ago. Expensive as hell. Fortunately company I worked for paid.

Give me a day or two. I know a guy here in Roiet who took legal action against his cheating wife. He won his case. Usufruct was upheld by the court. I will try to get case number to you via PM if he agrees.

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## jamescollister

Norton very interested, I looked into this many years ago, with the help of the Thai SME department. No chance, breaches, land act, tax code, international treaty on double taxation.
Fine if I was drilling for oil or a miner, no 1/2 or 1/4 usufructs under the civil code, you have one or you don't.
Will await your PM, maybe learn something new. Jim

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## Norton

Have a look at superficies (section 1410) and usufruct (section 1417). Might be of some help.

Thailand Civil and Commercial Code (part III) | law-texts

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## jamescollister

> Have a look at superficies (section 1410) and usufruct (section 1417). Might be of some help.
> 
> Thailand Civil and Commercial Code (part III) | law-texts


Just like to mention, when you read any of these act or laws you need to read them in context, you can't pick one line and say, that's the bit I want.
If it doesn't say aliens, it means Thais and one act does not cover all the laws.

Heres the USA/Thai treaty, or part of it.


ARTICLE 6
Income from Immovable (Real) Property
 1. Income derived by a resident of a Contracting State from immovable (real) property (including
income from agriculture or forestry) situated in the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other
State.
 2. The terms "immovable property" or "real property" shall have the meanings which they have
under the law of the Contracting State in which the property in question is situated. The terms shall in any case include property accessory to immovable property, livestock and equipment used in agriculture
and forestry, rights to which the provisions of general law respecting landed property apply, usufruct of
immovable property and rights to variable or fixed payments as consideration for the working of, or the
right to work, mineral deposits, sources and other natural resources; ships, boats and aircraft shall not
be regarded as immovable property.
 3. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall apply to income derived from the direct use, letting, or use in
any other form of immovable property.
 4. The provisions of paragraphs 1 and 3 shall also apply to the income from immovable property of
an enterprise and to income from immovable property used for the performance of independent

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## Norton

> you need to read them in context


In context and in total.

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## jamiejambos

I have an usufruct agreement and also have my name on the back of the chanote of the land that I bought  and both were drawn up and witnessed by an independent witness and lawyer so don't all you lower-deck lawyers go telling me that it doesn't mean nothing.

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## jamescollister

> I have an usufruct agreement and also have my name on the back of the chanote of the land that I bought  and both were drawn up and witnessed by an independent witness and lawyer so don't all you lower-deck lawyers go telling me that it doesn't mean nothing.


Probably means 2 to 5 years jail if they decided to prosecute, don't worry your lawyer won't have to share the cell.
Hope your not a yank, US inland revenue may want words if they find out.

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## jamiejambos

Well well well  ive heard a lot of bullshit or should I say read a lot of bullshit on Teakdoor but yours certainly ranks in the top five.

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## jamescollister

> Well well well  ive heard a lot of bullshit or should I say read a lot of bullshit on Teakdoor but yours certainly ranks in the top five.


Well you sound like you know your onions, so let me take a guess.
Did you buy the land through your spouse, if so did you sign a declaration that it was a gift and you would make no claim to said land, then made a claim for usufruct.
Failing to disclose information to a Government official, up to 2 years imprisonment. Criminal code.
Land act; An alien who uses a Thai nominee [read wife] to obtain control of land, up to 5 years imprisonment.
Of course you would have filed your quarterly tax returns, as per the treaty.
You would be well aware that more than one usufruct can e issued on the same land and any usufruct between husband and wife may be cancelled by either party at any time, at the lad office.

.

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## jamiejambos

Usufruct is not a claim ,it is an agreement and is signed in front of witnesses.
Usufruct agreement was taken to land office and my name was added to the chanote  by the land office government official as instructed by my lawyer and witnessed by an independent witness.
The land is 332 talangwa in size and is used for residential purposes and the garden is used for growing fruit and vegetables.
Quarterly tax returns [now you're talking shite]only one usufruct per  chanote 
[again talking more shite] the usufruct can only be cancelled on my death or my disappearance after 7 years .[you talking more shite]
The usufruct states that the land belongs to my wife and was a gift from me.
I will say this pal you're no Perry Mason so don't meddle in things you know fvck all about.

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## Necron99

Jamie, you can easily google this.

An usufruct is designed to allow access and control of the land for the purpose of resource harvesting, it's akin to a western mining or forestry lease. It does not cover rights to hold land for residential purposes.

Next, while prenuptual agreements are valid in thailand any contract signed between man and wife can be voided by either at any time. They are not worth the paper they are written on.
This is why in Thai upper-classes, divorce (on paper) is so common. You think Thaksin is really divorced form his wife? Most rich Thai couples I know are divorced, so contracts are binding and assets can be protected. As soon as a Thai sees legal trouble they get divorced, transfer assets and them contract for their retention.

"After the marriage husband and wife cannot make any contract between them affecting their assets and debts. This will then be governed by the civil and commercial code.

Civil and commercial code section 1469: 'Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby'.

It should be noted that when a foreigner is married to a Thai and when property is bought in Thailand the land cannot become a joint matrimonial property. The land must be owned as a personal property of the Thai spouse and therefore it will be managed by the Thai spouse (irrespective the content of any prenuptial agreement)."

Google it.......you will find plenty of sources.

Thai Marriage and Contracts

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## jamiejambos

Sorry mate why don't you google usufruct agreements.
I DIDN'T GO INTO THIS WITH MY EYES CLOSED.

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## Yasojack

i was always under the impression the usufruct was a agreement that you leased the said home or land from the holder of the chanote and you had no rights to the land if partner dies you get the land and have to sell within 30 days if your in the will?,if no will land goes to thai family.

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## jamiejambos

No the usufruct agreement lasts my lifetime and it doesn't matter if my wife dies first  which I hope doesn't happen but if she did the usufruct would protect me until my death then her family would inherit....Everyone is a winner..

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## Yasojack

sorry i forgot that bit.

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## jamiejambos

You're welcome. :Smile:

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## jamescollister

USUFRUCT

Section 1417. An immovable property may be subjected to a usufruct by virtue of which the usufructuary is entitled to the possession, use and enjoyment of the property.

He has the right of management of the property.

The usufruct of a forest, mine or quarry entitles the usufructuary to the exploitation of the forest, mine or quarry.

The Right to work, the right to the fruits of the land [orchard] no WP required, these are business agreements and you are prohibited from them as an alien.

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## Necron99

> Sorry mate why don't you google usufruct agreements.
> I DIDN'T GO INTO THIS WITH MY EYES CLOSED.



If your usufruct is between you and your wife, apparently you did. She can void it any time she likes. As to the nature of what an usufruct is, it is clearly defined as fruits of the land, resource harvesting. Not residential use.

I gave you the law cite above, if you have something which over rides it, why not share it here and educate us all? That's what the forum is about.

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## jamiejambos

Do you practice Thai law? even an uneducated guess would furnish the answer as  a big resounding NO.
Three different law firms were consulted by me and my wife purely to put my mind at ease and get all bases covered.
The last two lines  of your post are utter shite and have no bearing whatsoever on my agreement along with all the other shite you have posted previously.
I have no wish to discuss this any further with you. THANKYOU.

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## jamiejambos

> 


There you go necron ,if you don't agree see a lawyer.

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## Necron99

> Do you practice Thai law? even an uneducated guess would furnish the answer as  a big resounding NO.
> Three different law firms were consulted by me and my wife purely to put my mind at ease and get all bases covered.
> The last two lines  of your post are utter shite and have no bearing whatsoever on my agreement along with all the other shite you have posted previously.
> I have no wish to discuss this any further with you. THANKYOU.



So you paid three times for someone not accountable to tell you what you wanted to hear?
Good for you.

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## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by jamiejambos
> 
> 
> Do you practice Thai law? even an uneducated guess would furnish the answer as  a big resounding NO.
> Three different law firms were consulted by me and my wife purely to put my mind at ease and get all bases covered.
> The last two lines  of your post are utter shite and have no bearing whatsoever on my agreement along with all the other shite you have posted previously.
> I have no wish to discuss this any further with you. THANKYOU.
> 
> 
> ...


Especially as you can do it yourself for I think 200 Baht.

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## jamiejambos

> Originally Posted by Necron99
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by jamiejambos
> ...


Thailand is full of Barstool experts such as you and necron and both of you are 
are a disservice to Teakdoor and its members. 
Both of you will be telling me next that my last will and testament is invalid and not worth the paper its written on :rofl:

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## jamiejambos

> Originally Posted by jamiejambos
> 
> 
> Sorry mate why don't you google usufruct agreements.
> I DIDN'T GO INTO THIS WITH MY EYES CLOSED.
> 
> 
> 
> If your usufruct is between you and your wife, apparently you did. She can void it any time she likes. As to the nature of what an usufruct is, it is clearly defined as fruits of the land, resource harvesting. Not residential use.
> ...


Educating people such as yourself would be a great waste of anybody's time and effort especially as you think you have the finest legal brain in Thailand operating from your bar-stool. :smiley laughing:

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## Yasojack

Jamie i have always believed if your not well connected in Thailand anything can happen.


Norton you were well connected do you think, if you weren't you would of won your case?

The person in the videos used to boast of his law firms wins in court but never told us of his losses.

The persons status in Thailand has a lot to do with everything

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## jamiejambos

it seems to me that a lot of farangs in Thailand are afraid of the things that may never happen including yourself?????????
Either an usufruct agreement is legally binding or it isn't?
If it isn't why is it on the statute books? there would be no point to it.
My last will and testament is legally binding or it isn't it and is against the law.
Which is it going to be?

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## Yasojack

I thought we were referring to usufructs.

I'm not scared of anything if anything happened my kids get everything and thats all i'm interested in.

If you weren't sure yourself why go to all the trouble of seeing three law firms for your piece of mind.?

sorry to say this but your being defensive is there something happening in your life your not sharing.?

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## jamiejambos

Are you deliberately being obtuse? you are the original poster of this thread.
Do you believe that the  short videos you have posted  have any creditability in Thai law or not, if not why post them.
Consulting three different lawyer's was my way of covering every nook and cranny before I went the Usufruct way.
To the doubters I will ask, if a usufruct is not legally binding then the lawyer and the government official at the land office who added my name to the chanote have broken the law...Yes or No?
Your #50 does not make any sense. Sorry.

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## Yasojack

As my post stated to James its a guide and people can make there own opinions, there is stuff in the vids that may help people such as myself understand more.

Thai law is Thai law.

Money talks.

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## jamiejambos

Stop talking in riddles and answer my questions.
 In your opinion is an Usufruct agreement legally binding or not?
 Have you made a will leaving all your assets to your children or not?
 If you have made a Last will & Testament under Thai law ,in your own opinion
 do you think it is legally binding or will you children have to be well connected and pay a lot of money to claim their inheritance? ? ? ? ?

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## Yasojack

Not have a Will as i own nothing in Thailand, and own nothing in UK now all my money is tied up in my wife's name, she is many things but i know 1 million percent she would never sell this land as her mentality is to keep everything.

If she was to get a new husband all land will go into my sons name. this she has assured me of and i believe, we have bought lots of land that was her families land but lost through her fathers gambling habit, she wanted her family status back to what it was.

I would say the usufruct could be contested by the thai and would have more of a chance of winning than a farang.

I heard a story a few years ago of a farang who had a usufruct and his wife died, and her family wanted him out, they got him out in the end in a wooden box.

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## Norton

> Norton you were well connected do you think, if you weren't you would of won your case?


Suppose as related to usufruct, I was well connected. International law firm drew it up and represented us in court. Again, it was related to a commercial venture. Lot's of law firms advertise preparation of usufructs. Be wary. Preparation is easy. More important is their track record or ability to represent you in court if a legal case occurs.

I have been to Thai court for civil case related to breach of partnership contract with a "connected" Thai. Won a judgement. Winning a judgement and getting paid are of course two different things.

I don't buy the "farang can't win in Thai court". Having a proper contract/agreement in place to start essential. Going to court with a good lawyer armed with records documenting how the contract was breached is the key to winning a favorable judgement.

No different than in any country.

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## jamiejambos

So you have no legal protection whatsoever, So when the shit hits  the fan despite your wife's assurances you believe her 100% no matter what. I think that's rather foolish on your part. You could easily be another one of many farangs carried out in a wooden -box  You still haven't answered my questions about Usufruct agreements being legally binding or not.o My wife just can't make it null a void on a whim and march right up to the land-office and get my name taken off the chanote. No she would have to have a lot of money to fight it through the thai courts an presumably friends in high places to get the result she wants. According to some poster's on here  its so easy to do that for a Thai, rubbish. I have legal protection and for what its worth I am glad I have it. Too many threads are ruined by the bar-stool and
armchair experts on this forum just blowing wind out of their arses.

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## Yasojack

So winning and not getting paid is the same as losing.?

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## cyrille

> I don't buy the "farang can't win in Thai court".


Only those who have lost out (and not just in legal matters) seem to believe this.

Guess it makes them feel a bit better that it wasn't a fault specific to their case.

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## Norton

> So winning and not getting paid is the same as losing.?


Not really. In my case payments were made but not all. The payments made put me at a no loss position. Could have gone back to court to receive more but decided cost to do so not worth the effort.

Btw, no different in any country.

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## Yasojack

You opinion is being a bar stool expert yourself, i have known my wife for 13 yrs and understand how she works, but as all bar stool experts know they know better.

i have in no way said you wife would do anything, there are a lot of good Thai people not all are the same as there supposed to be.

Any person who gets ripped of here has themselves to blame, lifes to short for being constantly paranoid.




> So you have no legal protection whatsoever, So when the shit hits  the fan despite your wife's assurances you believe her 100% no matter what. I think that's rather foolish on your part. You could easily be another one of many farangs carried out in a wooden -box  You still haven't answered my questions about Usufruct agreements being legally binding or not.o My wife just can't make it null a void on a whim and march right up to the land-office and get my name taken off the chanote. No she would have to have a lot of money to fight it through the thai courts an presumably friends in high places to get the result she wants. According to some poster's on here  its so easy to do that for a Thai, rubbish. I have legal protection and for what its worth I am glad I have it. Too many threads are ruined by the bar-stool and
> armchair experts on this forum just blowing wind out of their arses.

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## Yasojack

OK thanks for clarifying.




> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> So winning and not getting paid is the same as losing.?
> 
> 
> Not really. In my case payments were made but not all. The payments made put me at a no loss position. Could have gone back to court to receive more but decided cost to do so not worth the effort.
> 
> Btw, no different in any country.

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## jamiejambos

> So winning and not getting paid is the same as losing.?


It will be in your case Jack, you haven't got a leg to stand on.
As a matter of fact you're in a lose/lose situation.

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## Yasojack

Jamie keep looking over your shoulder, they may get you. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

i may lose my kids benefit :Smile:

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## jamiejambos

> You opinion is being a bar stool expert yourself, i have known my wife for 13 yrs and understand how she works, but as all bar stool experts know they know better.
> 
> i have in no way said you wife would do anything, there are a lot of good Thai people not all are the same as there supposed to be.
> 
> Any person who gets ripped of here has themselves to blame, lifes to short for being constantly paranoid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Last time I sat on a bar-stool was two years ago when visiting friends in Phuket.
Not paranoid in the least, I believe in safety first hence the Usufruct agreement.
My wife is a good, gentle and loving  person  just like her Mama & Papa and the whole family are  good Buddhists. Again I believe in safety first and have legal protection just in case the shit   MIGHT   hit the fan ad everything is just rosy in my garden just now and not needing to look  over my shoulder at all unlike a few on this thread not to mention any names.

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## terry57

> Not have a Will as i own nothing in Thailand, and own nothing in UK now all my money is tied up in my wife's name, she is many things but i know 1 million percent she would never sell this land as her mentality is to keep everything.


 :rofl: 

Jack, I actually think your a bit of a comedian.   :bananaman:  

That's quite hilarious what you have penned up top.  :smiley laughing: 

Thanks for the giggle Jack,

Cheers.   :Smile:

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## jamescollister

> Are you deliberately being obtuse? you are the original poster of this thread.
> Do you believe that the  short videos you have posted  have any creditability in Thai law or not, if not why post them.
> Consulting three different lawyer's was my way of covering every nook and cranny before I went the Usufruct way.
> To the doubters I will ask, if a usufruct is not legally binding then the lawyer and the government official at the land office who added my name to the chanote have broken the law...Yes or No?
> Your #50 does not make any sense. Sorry.


Jamie, your lawyer has broken no laws, he acts on your instructions, in Thailand lawyers are not held accountable for opinions.
If your lawyer happened to be a farang, then he isn't even a lawyer, only a Thai can practice law here.
The land office has broken no laws, they only register things and will not register anything to do with alien which  can not be voided at the land office.
You or you wife can go to the land office at anytime and void the usufruct, no need for courts. That's the law simple as that.

Besides all the other rules and regulations, the Land code is plain, an alien can not own or control the use of land with out permission of the director general of the land department.

Think of it his way, if it was all above board, wouldn't property development companies be selling houses to farangs with usufruct, no need or he condominium act.

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## Yasojack

LAND OWNERSHIP AND THAI SPOUSE
Foreigners are not allowed to have co-ownership in land together with a Thai spouse.Contour Thailand

Land acquisition by a Thai married to a foreigner
IF A FOREIGNER has a Thai spouse then land could be bought on the name of the Thai spouse but obviously this carries some risk. The property will be registered in the Thai spouse's name and for the spouse to buy the land proof is required that the money used to purchase the property is legally from the Thai spouse, with no foreign claim to it. The same applies in case of the purchase of a condominium unit exceeding the foreign ownership quota in such condominium. In case of acquisition of land, land and house or in some cases condominium and registration of ownership at the Land Department the Thai spouse;

has to show evidence that all money paid is a personal property (Sin Suan Tua) according to Section 1471 and Section 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code, or;
must together with his/her foreign spouse at the Land Department's provincial or local land office confirm in a standard certify letter of confirmation that all money paid for the property is personal property (Sin Suan Tua) and not a common property (Sin Som Ros). It is in this case not the Land Department’s policy to investigate the actual sources of funds. (*) If the foreign spouse does not live in Thailand it can be recorded by ambassador / consular or notary public in such country.

It is only since the Ministry of Interior regulation dated March 23, 1999 (Most Urgent Letter Mor.Thor 0710/Wor.792) that a Thai national married to a foreigner is allowed to legally acquire and register ownership of land in Thailand. Prior to the regulation a Thai national married to a foreigner lost the right to acquire land in Thailand because without the procedure the foreign spouse could acquire an illegal interest in land as property between husband and wife (continue: the registration procedure). The procedure in the 1999 regulation issued by the Ministry of Interior is based on the principle of section 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code that if personal property has been exchanged for other property during the marriage that property becomes and remains a personal property and not a jointly owned property between husband and wife. This way the foreign spouse does not obtain any ownership rights in the land based on Thai family laws (property between husband and wife). Without the joint confirmation in the certify letter or proof the acquisition is paid with personal property of the Thai spouse the request for ownership registration must be referred to the Land Department in order to obtain an approval from the Minister. Without written evidence the land office will not allow registration of ownership.

Note: Any foreigner’s minor having Thai nationality may purchase or accept land as a gift with no consideration and register the ownership of such land if it does not appear after investigation that he/she has done so to avoid the law (primarily aimed at tax laws).

Management of the land by the Thai spouse married to a foreigner
The land must become a separate and personal property (Sin Suan Tua) of the Thai spouse according to section 1471 and section 1472 of the Civil Code, and not a jointly acquired or community property between husband and wife (Sin Som Ros). As opposed to jointly owned marital realty property (section 1476) the Thai spouse can sell, mortgage, transfer or exchange the property without consent of the foreign spouse read more...

Inheritance of land by a foreign spouse as statutory heir
In theory a foreigner can acquire land by inheritance as statutory heir (as opposed to legatees or heirs who are entitled by last will) and register ownership after having obtained permission from the Minister of interior. Section 93 of the Land Code Act: 'A foreigner who acquires land by inheritance as statutory heir can have an ownership in such land upon a permission of the Minister of Interior. However, the total plots of land shall not be exceeding of those specified in Section 87'.

It should be noted that the over 55 year old section 93 applies only to foreign ownership of land under a treaty (section 86 Land Code Act) and NOT to foreigners receiving land as a statutory heir from a Thai spouse. The last treaty allowing foreigners to own land in Thailand was terminated in 1970 therefore there is currently NO legal ground for the Minister of Interior to allow any foreigner to acquire land in Thailand as a statutory heir.

This in practice means that any foreign spouse who acquires land by inheritance as a statutory heir has to transfer the land within 1 year to a Thai national. The forgoing applies only to foreigners inheriting land as a statutory heir and not to foreigners heirs who acquire land under a last will.

Inheritance of a condominium
Any foreigner who acquires a condominium unit by inheritance, either as statutory heir or inheritor under will, shall obtain ownership of such unit, but must qualify under section 19 of the Condominium Act to actually register ownership with the Land Department. If he does not qualify under section 19 or if he qualifies but his ownership would exceed the allowed 49% foreign ownership in the condominium building it is required by law that the unit shall be disposed of within 1 year from the date of acquisition of such condominium unit. If the foreigner fails to do so, the Director-General of Land Department shall have power to sell the condominium on the foreigner's behalf, read up 'condominium acquired by inheritance'.

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## Yasojack

THAI LAND OFFICE MINISTERIAL REGULATION
incon law

Land purchase procedure for a Thai national married to a foreigner
Certify letter of confirmation procedure
A THAI NATIONAL who has a foreign spouse and who would like to legally acquire land in Thailand must prove that the money used on the purchase is personal property and sign a letter of confirmation signed together with the foreign spouse in front of the competent official certifying that the spending on land is separate personal property (Sin Suan Tua) of the Thai spouse and not a personal property of the foreign spouse, or common (sin som ros) marital asset between the spouses.

The regulation and procedure is aimed at preventing that the acquisition of land by the Thai spouse would create co-ownership in land together with the foreign spouse based on Thai family laws 'assets between husband and wife', and it is in addition aimed at preventing that a Thai spouse would act as the owner of land on behalf of the foreign spouse.

'Letter of Confirmation'

sample land office confirmation document

Source: Land Department

Land office procedure

The Thailand Land Department issued in 2009 the following information on the procedure for the letter of confirmation under the regulation 'acquisition of land by a Thai national married to a foreigner'. The explanation by the Land Department was given following earlier remarks made by the Director General of the Land Department which was published as 'land purchase through Thai spouse forbidden' read article...

The proceedings of certify letters are as follows:

1.	In case a foreign spouse lives in Thailand:	
1.1 In case a foreign is a legally spouse, a Thai and a foreign spouse have to give joint confirmation in certify letter according to the forms which were specified by the Department of Lands in front of the competent officer in the date of registration of rights and juristic act that the spending on land is sin suan tau of a Thai not sin som ros of the spouse.	
1.2 In case a foreigner is an illegally spouse, a Thai and a foreign spouse have to give joint confirmation in certify letter according to the forms which were specified by the Department of Lands in front of the competent officer in the date of registration of rights and juristic act that the spending on land is personal asset of a Thai only not common property.	
2.	In case an foreign spouse lives in Thailand but could not proceed according to No.1: In case a foreign spouse lives in Thailand but in the date of registration a foreigner could not give written confirmation together with a Thai in front of the competent officer at the registration land office. A Thai and a foreign spouse shall lodge the application of testimony form for confirming that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset of only a Thai not sin som ros or common property by lodging the application to the competent officer at provincial land office or any branch land office.	
3.	In case a foreign  spouse lives in oversea and could not lodge the application of testimony form according to No.1 and No.2. The foreigner has to contacts the embassy, consular or notary public for giving testimony of the foreign in certify letter according to the forms which were specified by the Department of Lands that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset of a Thai not sin som ros or common property one. The embassy, consular or notary public has to certify that person, who applies for certify letter, is truly spouse or they live together as husband and wife with a Thai. After, a Thai who would like to purchase land shall bring original of certify letter to the competent officer for registration of rights and juristic act accordingly.	
4.	In case a Thai who has legal or illegal foreign spouse, if a Thai could show the evidence indicates that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset according to section 1471 and section 1472 of The Civil and Commercial Code, the competent officer could registers rights and juristic act for a Thai without testimony form of Thai nationality and an alien spouse according No.1 – No.3.	
5.	In case a Thai, who has a foreign spouse, purchased land before 23 March B.E. 2542 but informed or submitted a false document declaring that he/she is single. For relaxation of rule to a Thai, who has legal or illegal alien spouse, purchased or owned land after the date of marriage. And a Thai informed or submitted a false document to the competent officer declaring that he/she is single or a Thai has no foreign spouse prior to the date of issuing letter of Ministry of Interior, Urgent No. MOI 0710/Circulation 792 dated 23 March B.E. 2542. A foreign spouse and a Thai shall together give a written confirmation in certify letter in front of the competent officer that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset of only a Thai not sin som ros or common property one. After, the competent officer retains documents in dealing file. If a foreign spouse who lives oversea and could not give written confirmation together in front of the competent officer, an alien has to contacts the embassy, consular or notary public for giving testimony of an alien spouse in certify letter according to the forms which were specified by the Department of Lands that the spending on land is sin suan tau or personal asset of a Thai not sin som ros or common property one. The embassy, consular or notary public has to certify that person, who applies the certify letter, is truly spouse or they live together as husband and wife with a Thai. After, a Thai who would like to purchase land shall bring original of certify letter to the competent officer for retaining documents in dealing file.	


DOWNLOAD: THAI ENGLISH PDF DOCUMENT ISSUED BY LAND DEPARTMENT OF THAILAND

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## Yasojack

MARRIAGE PROPERTY REGIME
Matrimonial property law in Thailand
Icon Thai Family Laws

Thai marriage and assets of husband and wife
THAI MARRIAGE property law is largely governed by the section property between husband and wife in the Civil and Commercial Code. In general 'benefit and income' of each spouse acquired during marriage will under Thai law become jointly owned property between husband and wife. A prenuptial agreement is an allowed concept in Thailand however it is not possible to exclude the general property regime between husband and wife in a prenuptial agreement.

Personal property in a Thai marriage

Thai family and marriage laws specify that property belonging to either spouse before the marriage remains his or her personal property after the marriage. If during the marriage personal property has been exchanged to other property this remains a personal property.

Section 1471 of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code: 'Personal property (Sin Suan Tua) consists of: (1) property belonging to either spouse before marriage, (2) property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse, (3) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift'.
Section 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code: 'As regards to Sin Suan Tua (personal property), if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua. Where the Sin Suan Tua has been totally or partly destroyed but replaced by other property or the money, such other property shall be Sin Suan Tua'.

Marital or common property

Section 1474 marital assets (matrimonial or common jointly owned property between husband and wife) is under Thai law called 'Sin Somros' and consists of:

property acquired during marriage;
property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will of gift made in writing if it is declared by such will or document of gift to be Sin Somros;
fruits of Sin Suan Tua.


In case of doubt as to whether a property is Sin Somros (jointly owned) or not it shall be presumed to be Sin Somros

Section 1474 last sentence means that all property acquired throughout the course of the marriage becomes jointly owned marital property between husband and wife regardless of how the title is held except properties that fall under sections 1471 and 1472 of the Civil and Commercial Code, but some proof that a property is personal property will be required. When the marriage ends due to death or divorce marital property will be divided and distributed in equal shares.

Sample of the benefit and income rule in Thai family laws (property between husband and wife): If you have 100,000 Thai baht in your bank account at the time of marriage and at the time of divorce in Thailand you saved together with your Thai spouse (the source does not matter) an additional 15,000 baht from and received 5,000 interest over your savings your spouse shall according to Thai family laws be entitled to half of the increase (i.e. 10,000 baht). An inheritance will not automatically become a marital property but becomes a personal property (Sin Suan Tua) of the person receiving the inheritance and the other spouse is not entitled in a divorce to the increase the other spouse received by the inheritance.

Management of property during marriage

Each spouse shall remain the manager of his or her personal property during marriage in Thailand. Certain marital property must be jointly managed and other property can be managed by each spouse. A prenuptial agreement as a pre-marriage contract may give the right to manage Sin Somros (jointly owned marital property) to one of the spouses. Without a prenuptial or marriage contract certain legal acts with regards to certain jointly owned properties must be managed jointly by husband and wife and requires joint consent.

Section 1476 of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code 'In managing the Sin Somros in the following cases, the husband and wife have to be joint manager, or one spouse has to obtain consent from the other:
Selling, exchanging, sale with the right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transferring the right of mortgage on immovable property or on mortgageable movable property.
Creating or distinguishing the whole or a part of the servitude, right of inhabitation, right of superficies, usufruct or charge on immovable property.
Letting immovable property for more than three years.
Lending money
Making a gift unless it is a gift for charitable, social or moral purposes and is suitable to the family condition.
Making a compromise.
Submitting a dispute to arbitration.
Putting up the property as guarantee or security with a competent official or the Court.
The management of the Sin Somros in any case other than those provided in paragraph one can be made by one spouse without having to obtain consent from the other'.
Management of real estate during marriage

A foreigner married to a Thai is not allowed to have any form of joint ownership in land together with his or her Thai spouse. Any land acquired in Thailand during the course of the marriage with a foreigner cannot be a Sim Somros or marital asset according to section 1474 but must become a personal asset of the Thai spouse accorsing to section 1471 and 1472. As a non-marital asset it will be managed by the Thai spouse solely. In practice often land and house in Thailand will be registered as a personal property of the Thai national. An important aspect for the foreign spouse is of course the fact that the Thai spouse has full management and control over the property and is able to sell or encumber the property without the consent of the foreign spouse (section 1476 does not apply). In addition, as a non-marital asset at death or in a divorce it will not automatically be divided as a common property between husband and wife (read up on division of the marital home).

Also if the Thai spouse dies the foreigner has to deal with the heirs of the Thai spouse unless a last will has been made, read more...

If protection is required the first protection for the foreign spouse lies in obtaining joint or sole ownership over the building separate from the land. It's only the land aspect of the property that is restricted for foreign ownership, not the structures upon on the land or immovable property as a whole. The structures on the land can be a jointly owned property or even owned as a personal property of the foreign husband (section 1472). By assuring ownership or co-ownership over the house in a separate procedure at the Land Department the foreign spouse prevents a situation where the Thai spouse is able to sell the whole property without the consent of the other spouse (see section 1476 management of Sin Somros above). When the house is regarded as a Sin Somros it must be jointly managed by both spouses and selling would need both spouses consent (unless a prenuptial agreement to this regard has been made).

Section 1475 (Civil and Commercial Code): 'Where any Sin Somros is property of the kind mentioned in Section 456 (meaning immovable property) of this Code or has documentary title, either husband or wife may apply for having his or her name entered in the documents as co-owners'

The second option for protection lies in a right of usufruct, or in case of undeveloped land a right of superficies over the property registered in the foreign spouse's name at the Land Department. A right of usufruct or superficies registered on the title deed is an acceptable protection for a foreign spouse, especially if the money expended on the property comes from what is considered personal property of the foreign spouse.

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## Yasojack

Protect your rights in a real estate owned by a Thai spouse
Real estate ownership by a Thai national married to a foreigner

When you registered a property (land and house) in Thailand on your Thai spouse's name during your marriage you may have thought about a personal protection in the form of a usufruct to protect your interest in case of divorce or in the event your Thai spouse would predecease you. However, you may not be familiar with the right of usufruct in Thailand as it is a typical Civil Law property right and you may also not be aware what your rights and obligations under a right of usufruct are.

The usufruct of an immovable property is primarily the right to use and manage another person's real estate property and receive the benefits ('fruits') from it. Management in this matter means to the extent permissible for foreigners under Thailand land laws. This means you can live in the house and you can for example rent it out and keep the rent but as a foreigner you cannot register a rental exceeding 3 years with the Land Department.

The usufruct does not give the right to sell the property nor does it gives the title to the property. The usufruct comes to an end at the end of the agreed period and on the death of the person granted the right of usufruct. Whether the usufruct is given for a period of time of up to 30 years or for the life of a person, in any case, the usufruct comes to an end on the death of the person granted the right of usufruct. A usufruct is a form of life interest in the real property.

A usufruct could also be given to more than 1 person at the time. A right of usufruct in Thailand is usually a legal instrument to protect a foreign spouse in case the property is registered on the Thai spouse's name. It enables the foreign spouse to use the property when he survives the Thai spouse and registered owner. The Thai spouse could for example leave the property to the couple's children, if of Thai nationality, but warrants by way of a registered right of usufruct that his or her foreign spouse has the use and benefit of the property during his lifetime. Upon the usufructuary's death the usufruct comes to an end and the Thai registered owner(s) receives full unencumbered ownership again.

The usufructuary under Thai Law has the obligation to maintain the property and take normal care of the property. If the usufructuary fails to do so and the property would lose value as a result of poor management or would become in a poor state of repair the owner has the right to terminate the right of usufruct. The usufructuary is liable for loss of value or destruction of the property unless he can proof that damages are not caused by his fault.

The creation of a usufruct could in certain circumstances be an effective option to protect a foreign spouse during his marriage in Thailand and upon death of his or her Thai spouse, however in some cases a usufruct contract may not be the best option. For example if the Thai spouse registers ownership over land and the couple plans to build a house on it a right of superficies may be a more suitable right.

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## Yasojack

pretty good info here????????????????????????? possibly :Smile: 

Thailand Property Laws | buying real estate in Thailand | Thai law

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## jamiejambos

So jack what is it you don't understand  about the Usufruct agreement that  does not state that I cannot live in the house that I built on the land that I bought which I gifted to my wife but made an usufruct agreement with until my death?
Can you point out to me where it states that my wife can go to the land office and nullify said agreement or make it void at any time?

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## Yasojack

sorry Jamie as you keep telling everyone there all dumb feks why should anyone bother

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## Necron99

^ You were doing fine until you posted the lawyers speil.

It's quite simple Jamie, if the land office thinks the usufruct is an attempt to circumvent the property laws they have the power to void it.

In the event of a nasty divorce that goes to court, the land is legally her personal property and the usufuct is preventing her from doing with her property as she wants. the Judge would void it.


As Jim pointed out, thousands of farangs go to great lengths to set up companies to buy a house, why would they do so if all they needed was a 200 baht usufuct?

It may give you some protection if she dies, but not if the inheritor challenges it. It is not a right to build or reside. It is a right to use and take the fruits of the land, agriculture or resource. All functions which farangs are barred from doing.

but if it makes you feel better, have a good long look at your name on the chanote and dream away.....

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## Yasojack

She could say the management of the property has been neglected, and can void the Usufruct

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## pompeysbroke

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not have a Will as i own nothing in Thailand, and own nothing in UK now all my money is tied up in my wife's name, she is many things but i know 1 million percent she would never sell this land as her mentality is to keep everything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is funny..in a sad kinda way

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## Yasojack

pompey you should of got some advice, i also feel pretty sad for you considering, it come back and bites you.

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## jamescollister

Jamie, it's already been posted by Necon I think, but here it's again.
Civil and Commercial code, that's were usufract come under.

Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.

Why don't you just go the land department and ask them, or better still go to the police and tell them that you made a false declaration to a government department, then get back to us.

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## jamiejambos

> Jamie, it's already been posted by Necon I think, but here it's again.
> Civil and Commercial code, that's were usufract come under.
> 
> Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.
> 
> Why don't you just go the land department and ask them, or better still go to the police and tell them that you made a false declaration to a government department, then get back to us.


 Don't take this too personally but a Thai lawyer is better placed to  advise someone
 about Thai law than a farang Bar-stool lawyer ,do you agree?

 Second point:- Surely my lawyer would of pointed out to me that I would be making a false declaration and breaking the law by going to the land-office
to get my name added to the chanote and surely he would be aiding and abetting me to break the law by doing just that. Do you agree?

Final point:- Surely the Government official would of pointed out to both me and my lawyer that I was making a false declaration and wouldn't of added my name to the chanote. Do you agree? So who is breaking the law? Who hasn'tgot a clue about Thai law? And who is talking absolute shite?

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## jamiejambos

> James haven't you got it yet everyone are dumb idiots.


 No jack, only the ones who give their wives total control of their money.

 And the ones who spout total shite about Thai-Law from a bar-stool.

 The jury is still out on which of the two is the bigger idiot. But who cares?

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## jamiejambos

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> James haven't you got it yet everyone are dumb idiots.
> 
> 
>  No jack, only the ones who give their wives total control of their money.
> 
>  And the ones who spout total shite about Thai-Law from a bar-stool.
> ...


 It's ok ,whoever is trying to delete my post on this thread ,I'll just keep reposting it
 but nice try. :smiley laughing:

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## jamiejambos

So I will 
 take it this thread has reached its conclusion  because the three resident
 Law-Experts have dredged the archives of the Teakdoor legal  &  Law sections and can't come up with anything new to discredit an Usufruct Agreement.
Yes Gentlemen you have to understand the law and its entire application to living and working in Thailand and not just snippets that you've read somewhere or heard from the person on the bar-stool next to you. No offence.
If anyone needs legal advice it will always work out best for you to seek out a reputable Law-Firm and lawyer.

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## Yasojack

My very kind wife has just gave me a piece of land, that we purchased so i can buiild a home on for myself, no usufruct no contract, just through the goodness of her heart.

The is how it went, she said why do you want to go rent in ubon when you can stay near the kids and see them everyday, you can still eat with the family we can still go and enjoy with the kids, the kids love you your good for them.

Heres the crunch she could taken me to the cleaners over the years, and done what many farangs are paranoid about.(losing everything), and it would of been my own fault for being a asshole

We have agreement that both of us can have new partners, though the kids have to come first until there able to take care of themselves.

theres always a alternative  take the time and find one, its taken us a long time but now both are happy with the arrangement.

Took a long time to get there, and yes i was paranoid for years about the same thing as many.

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## Norton

> three resident Law-Experts


Apologies. Do carry on however.  :Smile:

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## jamiejambos

> Originally Posted by jamiejambos
> 
> three resident Law-Experts
> 
> 
> Apologies. Do carry on however.


Without back-tracking and checking, I can say with absolute certainty that
you were never mentioned or referred to as a Resident Law-Expert but no
apology is required for making that mistake.

My final post on this thread.............

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## Makmak456

simple
do not spend or buy anything you cannot just walk away from............

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## Yasojack

wise post Makmak.

or don't moan if something comes back to bite you.

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## Makmak456

> wise post Makmak.
> 
> or don't moan if something comes back to bite you.


Very true, along with ALLWAYS be worth more alive than dead...........
No big insurance policys, as we do in the west.

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## piwanoi

> My very kind wife has just gave me a piece of land, that we purchased so i can buiild a home on for myself, no usufruct no contract, just through the goodness of her heart.
> 
> The is how it went, she said why do you want to go rent in ubon when you can stay near the kids and see them everyday, you can still eat with the family we can still go and enjoy with the kids, the kids love you your good for them.
> 
> Heres the crunch she could taken me to the cleaners over the years, and done what many farangs are paranoid about.(losing everything), and it would of been my own fault for being a asshole
> 
> We have agreement that both of us can have new partners, though the kids have to come first until there able to take care of themselves.
> 
> theres always a alternative  take the time and find one, its taken us a long time but now both are happy with the arrangement.
> ...


 Yasso reading your post leads me to believe that the words "living in a madhouse" is a very accurate description . :Smile:

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## jamescollister

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> My very kind wife has just gave me a piece of land, that we purchased so i can buiild a home on for myself, no usufruct no contract, just through the goodness of her heart.
> 
> The is how it went, she said why do you want to go rent in ubon when you can stay near the kids and see them everyday, you can still eat with the family we can still go and enjoy with the kids, the kids love you your good for them.
> 
> Heres the crunch she could taken me to the cleaners over the years, and done what many farangs are paranoid about.(losing everything), and it would of been my own fault for being a asshole
> 
> ...


For those of us who actually live in Issan, not in a cocooned farang sub culture, the place is a madhouse.

Sitting here on my stilt patio can see 5 guys sitting drinking Lao Kow in the shade of a tree in my backyard.
Women of the house decided to change the water in the kids pool, pool is in the kitchen area.Do you run a hose outside to drain the water, no just pull the drain plug, water can find it's own way out.

9 guys now cooking on a fire, some sort of Buddha day, guess I will have to go sit there for a few Lao Kows. Jim

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## toddaniels

I took the time to read all 6 pages of this pissing match between you guys. 

It seems to come down to the argument of who's better protected from their hill-billy thai wife should things go sideways in regards to the mansion you built on her land in that one buffalo village up in Nakhon Nowhere. Of course that's just the summary I got from reading it.

It would be laughable if it wasn't such a pathetic read.

Just a question because I'm curious (which is usually only fatal to cats).  

When you guys were kids playing in the sand box with your GI-Joe toy soldier, did you say; "When I grow up, I'm going to move to a pissant developing third world country, marry a dumb hill-billy, build a mansion on land I can't own and then worry about it for the rest of my life..." I mean I just wanna know? 

From now on, I'll doff my cap and tug my fetlock, err strike that, I mean tug my forelock, when you pass by... 

You guys are truly legends who are living the dream! 

I can only hope I'll grow up to be just like all of you.... *NOT*!

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## jamescollister

> I took the time to read all 6 pages of this pissing match between you guys. 
> 
> It seems to come down to the argument of who's better protected from their hill-billy thai wife should things go sideways in regards to the mansion you built on her land in that one buffalo village up in Nakhon Nowhere. Of course that's just the summary I got from reading it.
> 
> It would be laughable if it wasn't such a pathetic read.
> 
> Just a question because I'm curious (which is usually only fatal to cats).  
> 
> When you guys were kids playing in the sand box with your GI-Joe toy soldier, did you say; "When I grow up, I'm going to move to a pissant developing third world country, marry a dumb hill-billy, build a mansion on land I can't own and then worry about it for the rest of my life..." I mean I just wanna know? 
> ...


Strange enough out my way, few farangs, but they usually live out their dream and die, of boredom and alcohol.
Not too many younger guys come out to set up home.
Done many stupid things in my life, sure others have as well, don't want to take chances, stay home.
Anyone wants to believe they are secure here, up to them, the rest of us just get on with life. Jim

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## SilicaStorm

> I took the time to read all 6 pages of this pissing match between you guys. 
> 
> It seems to come down to the argument of who's better protected from their hill-billy thai wife should things go sideways in regards to the mansion you built on her land in that one buffalo village up in Nakhon Nowhere. Of course that's just the summary I got from reading it.
> 
> It would be laughable if it wasn't such a pathetic read.
> 
> Just a question because I'm curious (which is usually only fatal to cats).  
> 
> When you guys were kids playing in the sand box with your GI-Joe toy soldier, did you say; "When I grow up, I'm going to move to a pissant developing third world country, marry a dumb hill-billy, build a mansion on land I can't own and then worry about it for the rest of my life..." I mean I just wanna know? 
> ...


I am a new member to this site and I was reading this thread to learn the differences between superficies and usufruct. thinking that the members on this forum may offer some added value with their knowledge and life experiences.

Best post was from Toddaniels,,,, thank you!

Guess I will look at CTH forum for my learning curve rather than reading this garbage!


 :Die Thread:

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## nevets

Jack i am sorry to here you and your wife have problems, but having some of the land to make home on is good on her part so you can see the kids, i hope you can be happy.

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## Arthur Stubb

Now, what happens, if your wife is in jail (Womens Correctional Institute) for four years and you want to divorce her. No property, no kids, no assets. Do you just turn up at the registration office or family court with the marriage certificate and ask them to get on with it? Do you have to do it in the province she resides (the monkey house)? Would you have to provide evidence she is in prison? Will you need a lawyer?

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## rickschoppers

Arthur, just get on with your life and forget about all the formalities.

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## Arthur Stubb

The thing is, rick, there's a new girl in tow and seeing as the marriage was affirmed by the British consulate in Thailand, could cause problematic for any future visa application. Got to do it by the book.

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## rickschoppers

What exactly do you have to tell immigration? That you have a new girlfriend?

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## toddaniels

I could be mistaken but I believe the fact that your thai wife is incarcerated doesn't negate her rights in divorce proceedings. 

Just a question, did you get married here in Thailand, at the Amphur and then take the Kor Ror 2 & 3 to  your embassy to recognize it or what? 

Getting divorced in thailand IF both parties agree to the terms is as easy as getting married here. Actually, it's easier because you don't need that affirmation of freedom to marry paper from your embassy. 

You guys go to the Amphur, sign the divorce papers, include the addendum about who gets what (if there's any stuff to split up), pay the filing fee and Bob's your uncle, you're divorced..  

Now seeing as your wife can't waltz up to the local Amphur with you that could throw a spanner in the gears of progress.

Call any number of law firms and ask them, they all answer questions for free. I'd call a few to get a fair sampling of answers because thaiz are famous for pulling answers outta their assholes to questions they don't know the answer to.. This way at least you see if what one is telling you jibes with what another is telling you.

I doubt you're the first husband in the history of Thailand who wants to divorce his currently imprisoned wife.  Although you are the first foreigner I've ever heard of wanting to do so.

Hopefully you've made a better choice as far as a thai significant other with the "in tow" replacement. 

Conversely, if you're over 50, I'd switch to a yearly extension of stay based on retirement. . . However, I could be mistaken in assuming you're talking about your visa for thailand not a visa to lug a thai back where ever it is you come from.

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## Evilbaz

Helluva lot of opinions here - which I guess just proves the application of Thai law is not precise.

My understanding is the ownership of your house and a usufruct to use the land is less murky if the owner of the land  is your cohabitator and not your spouse
Any comments please.

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## Lancelot

*
 When you guys were kids playing in the sand box with your GI-Joe toy soldier, did you say; "When I grow up, I'm going to move to a pissant developing third world country, marry a dumb hill-billy, build a mansion on land I can't own and then worry about it for the rest of my life..." I mean I just wanna know?* 

That's a classic Tod. +100  :Smile:

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## jamescollister

> Helluva lot of opinions here - which I guess just proves the application of Thai law is not precise.
> 
> My understanding is the ownership of your house and a usufruct to use the land is less murky if the owner of the land  is your cohabitator and not your spouse
> Any comments please.


Have posted this more times than I can remember, your an alien, you come under double taxation treaties, which cover usufructs. They are business contracts and taxable as such. Do you really think if these things were legal, big housing companies would't be flogging homes to farangs using them. Jim

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## Iceman123

^
Great point Jim,

Any scheme that attempts to legitimize an illegal position fails at the first hurdle.

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## Evilbaz

> Originally Posted by Evilbaz
> 
> 
> Helluva lot of opinions here - which I guess just proves the application of Thai law is not precise.
> 
> My understanding is the ownership of your house and a usufruct to use the land is less murky if the owner of the land  is your cohabitator and not your spouse
> Any comments please.
> 
> 
> Have posted this more times than I can remember, your an alien, you come under double taxation treaties, which cover usufructs. They are business contracts and taxable as such. Do you really think if these things were legal, big housing companies would't be flogging homes to farangs using them. Jim




Keep posting Jimbo - I don't pay tax - anywhere.
Thanks for your advice...

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## moose65

all three of you guys are either taking the piss or are complete knob heads !

who really gives a toss , as if they want you out they get you out either legally or feet first !

after all we are falang and we don't matter !

stop friggin bickering like old women and try to give some useful info for once !

rob

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## piwanoi

> all three of you guys are either taking the piss or are complete knob heads !
> 
> who really gives a toss , as if they want you out they get you out either legally or feet first !
> 
> after all we are falang and we don't matter !
> 
> stop friggin bickering like old women and try to give some useful info for once !
> 
> rob


  Golden#1, never enter into any partnership here in Thailand be it romance or business you can't afford to walk away from if it goes tits up ,having been coming here on long stay holidays with my late wife since 89 and lived here full time since Nov 03 I have personally seen and heard of more "shipwrecks" than enough, where the Farang has "foundered on the rocks"  :Smile:

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## toddaniels

"moose65"; your statement "after all we are falang" which you so blithely throw out when referring to other foreigners but also with that hillbilly thai r/l switch could be an indication of how much you've dumbed yourself down living here.

It can take the edge off a person being around thaiz 24/7 day in day out so I don't fault you for possibly "catchin' some stupid" from these people..

Whether you have the right to live in the house on your wife's land or not after a break up, my question is; who in their right mind would WANT to live surrounded by your ex-wife's thai in-lawz and out-lawz after you divorced? 

It would certainly not be my first choice of suitable digs..  

We now return to the pissing match already in progress...

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by Yasojack
> 
> 
> So winning and not getting paid is the same as losing.?
> 
> 
> It will be in your case Jack, you haven't got a leg to stand on.
> As a matter of fact you're in a lose/lose situation.


  Yeah I'm afraid you are correct Jim ,Yaso has dug himself an economic  hole here in Thailand that is about as difficult to get out of a climbing the North face of the Eiger  :smiley laughing:

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## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by jamiejambos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Yasojack
> ...


Currently, I guess they've reconciled - still together, living happily ever after.

 :Wink:

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## chassamui

> Originally Posted by jamiejambos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Yasojack
> ...


You have a nasty habit of posting tbat  big stupid smiley at thr end of all your posts. I assume it is a habit because even someone as dumb as you would surely not laugh at a bloke losing everything under such circumstances.

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## Horatio Hornblower

:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl: 

Seems Pi has a bee in his bonnet about getting his ass kicked. :rofl:  :rofl: 

must be about Time wife wife no2 ripped you now Pi  after your 1.5 million refurb of the Mud hut.

have fun guys its entertaining watching desperation

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## piwanoi

> Seems Pi has a bee in his bonnet about getting his ass kicked.
> 
> must be about Time wife wife no2 ripped you now Pi  after your 1.5 million refurb of the Mud hut.
> 
> have fun guys its entertaining watching desperation


  Another one of your usual trips into fantasy land ,show me the post were I said I have spent 1.5 million on  the mud hut as you put it ?

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## thaimeme

> Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems Pi has a bee in his bonnet about getting his ass kicked.
> 
> must be about Time wife wife no2 ripped you now Pi after your 1.5 million refurb of the Mud hut.
> 
> ...


I don't recall any such mention, Pi. [memory of the thread]
Jacko's usual MO as to misinterpreting most everything or making things up, which is an annoying trait.

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## piwanoi

^  What I did say and I remember it quite well, was that I had spent almost 1 million baht in total on a total refurb of the property which includes 3 TV's , Air Con , Cookers ,furniture ,beds ,a new Stereo system Etc Etc  ,finishing  paying off Jans debt which was incurred through her building the house in the first place , and as Pragmatic (who has been to our house) will confirm its far from a ""mud hut"" as Yaso blurts out at every given opportunity , without going into detail my financial status is quite rosy ,infact I have just bought for cash  the latest model 2.8  Toyota 4 door pick up which is parked on the driveway right now in front of our "Mud hut" :Smile:

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## DrB0b

> ^  What I did say and I remember it quite well, was that I had spent almost 1 million baht in total on a total refurb of the property which includes 3 TV's , Air Con , Cookers ,furniture ,beds ,a new Stereo system Etc Etc  ,finishing  paying off Jans debt which was incurred through her building the house in the first place , and as Pragmatic (who has been to our house) will confirm its far from a ""mud hut"" as Yaso blurts out at every given opportunity , without going into detail my financial status is quite rosy ,infact I have just bought for cash  the latest model 2.8  Toyota 4 door pick up which is parked on the driveway right now in front of our "Mud hut"


Interesting to see that even you,  [at][at][at][at] that you are,  has been lied about by yaso. Going by what others here have said about him he seems to be not just the retard he comes across as on here but also a lying,  two-faced sack of shit. I've never met the guy but that's the impression I get from posters here who know him.

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## chassamui

> ^  What I did say and I remember it quite well, was that I had spent almost 1 million baht in total on a total refurb of the property which includes 3 TV's , Air Con , Cookers ,furniture ,beds ,a new Stereo system Etc Etc  ,finishing  paying off Jans debt which was incurred through her building the house in the first place , and as Pragmatic (who has been to our house) will confirm its far from a ""mud hut"" as Yaso blurts out at every given opportunity , without going into detail my financial status is quite rosy ,infact I have just bought for cash  the latest model 2.8  Toyota 4 door pick up which is parked on the driveway right now in front of our "Mud hut"


None of this excuses the amusement you demonstrate at the expense of another poster.  No one deserves that kind of joyful derision even if you are both twats.

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## DrB0b

As this forum is supposed to provide information about living in Thailand all this childish shit by childish shitheads should be deleted. There is no longer ANY useful information about living in Thailand on this forum,  only ridiculous bullshit from social inadequates who should have been drowned at birth.  What relevance does this forum have to any new expat any more? None at all! Not even the most basic question can be asked without contradictory retards starting dicksize wars. What is the POINT of this forum any more? What do moderators actually do here? They certainly don't do anything to make this forum relevant to people who live or want to live in Thailand.

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## piwanoi

> Seems Pi has a bee in his bonnet about getting his ass kicked.
> 
> must be about Time wife wife no2 ripped you now Pi  after your 1.5 million refurb of the Mud hut.
> 
> have fun guys its entertaining watching desperation


  You write of watching others desperation? when in your cry in the wilderness  post #54 you say your wife has every penny of yours? :smiley laughing:

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## chassamui

> Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems Pi has a bee in his bonnet about getting his ass kicked.
> 
> must be about Time wife wife no2 ripped you now Pi  after your 1.5 million refurb of the Mud hut.
> 
> ...





> As this forum is supposed to provide information about living in Thailand all this childish shit by childish shitheads should be deleted. There is no longer ANY useful information about living in Thailand on this forum,  only ridiculous bullshit from social inadequates who should have been drowned at birth.  What relevance does this forum have to any new expat any more? None at all! Not even the most basic question can be asked without contradictory retards starting dicksize wars. What is the POINT of this forum any more? What do moderators actually do here? They certainly don't do anything to make this forum relevant to people who live or want to live in Thailand.


FFS Bob who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?

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## DrB0b

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
> ...


I'm just tired of the stupidity displayed by so-called adults on this forum. Have they no shame or no pride? Why can none of them give a straight answer to a straight question? I have never in ny life come across such a bunch of ignorant egomaniacs as we get on TD.  It wasn't like this when DD was alive.  Where did all these retards come from and why are they still here? Why are morons no longer culled? I have no problem with maniacs in the discussion section but now they're everywhere. I've just been reading where people new to Thailand have asked for advice,  every response was ignorant gibberish. Who is this forum serving? It's no longer possible  to trust any nformation posted on Teakdoor,  given that then just what is the point of the forum?

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## Horatio Hornblower

Good Morning to all,I see your New year has started  wonderfully,and you all have a spring in your step. :Smile:

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## terry57

^

Bob seems to have let things get on top of him, chill out Bob, the forum is still very useful. 

If a thread is pissing you off just leave it. 

I rather like watching Jackyboy melt down.   :Smile:

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## terry57

> Whether you have the right to live in the house on your wife's land or not after a break up, my question is; who in their right mind would WANT to live surrounded by your ex-wife's thai in-lawz and out-lawz after you divorced? 
> 
> It would certainly not be my first choice of suitable digs..



Todly rarely posts anything worthy outside his outstanding contribution to the Visa section but on this one he has kicked a winner.

Onya Todly. 

Every word is spot on.

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by toddaniels
> 
> 
> 
> Whether you have the right to live in the house on your wife's land or not after a break up, my question is; who in their right mind would WANT to live surrounded by your ex-wife's thai in-lawz and out-lawz after you divorced? 
> 
> It would certainly not be my first choice of suitable digs..
> 
> 
> ...


  Yeah but the best one Yaso  says he loves watching others desperation  :smiley laughing:

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## Horatio Hornblower

Terence Meltdown :rofl:  not me running around finding old threads or abusing people,its great watching all these grown men,with there anger accusing others of doing what they do best themselves. :rofl: 




> ^
> 
> Bob seems to have let things get on top of him, chill out Bob, the forum is still very useful. 
> 
> If a thread is pissing you off just leave it. 
> 
> I rather like watching Jackyboy melt down.

----------


## terry57

^

Well Jacky,

If you are going to post up about your family circumstances the lads will call you out for making some real dumb arse decisions.

It's how the forum rolls innit.   :Smile:

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## piwanoi

> Terence Meltdown not me running around finding old threads or abusing people,its great watching all these grown men,with there anger accusing others of doing what they do best themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> ...


  Not you running round finding old threads or abusing people? , FFS get a grip , so you saying you are waiting for Jan to rip me off after I have spent 1.5 million on refurbishing the "Mud hut" is not digging up old threads? and  the 1.5 million you mention is a load of bollox any way , the word pure hypocrisy springs readily to mind  :smiley laughing:

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## terry57

^

You do realize that Jackyboy is a Tad fuking Mad dont you.  ?

Ask him about the Red shirts marching into Bangkok .   :bananaman:

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## DrB0b

> the word pure hypocrisy springs readily to mind


"pure hypocrisy" is not a word.  It's difficult to comprehend the mental (or linguistic) state of somebody who thinks it is.

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## Horatio Hornblower

Pi just trying to guard you against future attacks from the Rural siamese,and how they exploit the old. :Smile:

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## Horatio Hornblower

Bob I just rolled a big Fat reefer, you wanna bit,might help the Blood pressure :Smile: 






> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
>  the word pure hypocrisy springs readily to mind
> 
> 
> "pure hypocrisy" is not a word.  It's difficult to comprehend the mental state of somebody who thinks it is.

----------


## piwanoi

> ^
> 
> Well Jacky,
> 
> If you are going to post up about your family circumstances the lads will call you out for making some real dumb arse decisions.
> 
> It's how the forum rolls innit.


  Yeah and he tells me how desperate I am , when he started the thread seeking sympathy for his self made plight, instead it backfired rather badly  :smiley laughing:

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## terry57

^  ^

I'll be around in 13 micro seconds Jacky.  :Smile:

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## Horatio Hornblower

Terry bring Bob. :Smile:  and Pi there getting a little hot under there starched collars :Smile:

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## piwanoi

> Pi just trying to guard you against future attacks from the Rural siamese,and how they exploit the old.


  Really is that right Yaso ? so cos you are young enough to be my son , you reckon you are bullet proof eh ? :smiley laughing:

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## DrB0b

> Terry bring Bob. and Pi there getting a little hot under there starched collars


In English,  please.

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## terry57

> Yeah and he tells me how desperate I am , when he started the thread seeking sympathy for his self made plight.



If all farang just take on Board that they own shit in this Micky Mouse country all will be good and never a tear shed. 

Exactly why I will never expose more than 25 Baht of my wealth here. 

Saying that, I love living here because I have exactly fuk all to lose and can leave in 5 minutes. 

This is how things will stay as well.

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## piwanoi

> Terry bring Bob. and Pi there getting a little hot under there starched collars


  Hot under the Collar Yaso? , FFS I have never had so much fun since I discovered what my right hand was for  :Smile:

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## Horatio Hornblower

Well after my thread has been bumped I'd like to tell you all my new found problems in Rural Siam.

I'm living in chicken coup,having been found having sex with the next door neighbours Cat.

I've been blackmailed by her indoors and has taken all my money, I had a choice pay up or the Police would be called,if any would like to make a donation i can send my Paypal account.

Thanks in advance

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## terry57

^

At least you are being honest with us now Jacky.

I salute you for that.  :goldcup:

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## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> 
> 
>  Yeah and he tells me how desperate I am , when he started the thread seeking sympathy for his self made plight.
> 
> 
> 
> If all farang just take on Board that they own shit in this Micky Mouse country all will be good and never a tear shed. 
> ...


  How right you are Tel , thats   why I stated quite plainly in an earlier post, Golden rule#1 never enter into anything here in Thailand be it Marriage or Business that you cannot afford to walk away from .

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## Horatio Hornblower

Terence always tell the truth,though some here choose not to believe.

Some don't realise the truth or choose not to believe as there little worlds are full of lies. :Smile:

----------


## DrB0b

> Originally Posted by piwanoi
> 
> 
> 
>  Yeah and he tells me how desperate I am , when he started the thread seeking sympathy for his self made plight.
> 
> 
> 
> If all farang just take on Board that they own shit in this Micky Mouse country all will be good and never a tear shed. 
> ...


I agree Terry.  This is a sandbox and we play our games here. I had a wonderful time ilin SE Asia before I had to take responsibility for my loved ones,  For those of us,  like me,  who have wives and children here we need to make sure they have places in the real world,  only the lowest type of narcissist would condemn his loved ones to being uneducated paupers in the developing world.



> Terence always tell the truth,though some are choose not to believe.
> 
> Some don't realise the truth or choose not to believe as there little worlds are full of lies.


In English please.

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## Horatio Hornblower

Hah ye but the next time you won't be walking away your'll be getting carried away to the temple in a casket.





> Originally Posted by terry57
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by piwanoi
> ...

----------


## DrB0b

> Hah ye but the next time you won't be walking away your'll be getting carried away to the temple in a casket


In English,  please.

----------


## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
> 
> 
> Terry bring Bob. and Pi there getting a little hot under there starched collars
> 
> 
> In English,  please.


  Nice one  :rofl:

----------


## Horatio Hornblower

Hey Bob your fuking the thread up,with you pathetic attempts. :Smile:

----------


## piwanoi

> Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower
> 
> Hah ye but the next time you won't be walking away your'll be getting carried away to the temple in a casket
> 
> 
> In English,  please.


  It would appear that Yaso in his own words is "Digging himself a bigger whole"  :smiley laughing:

----------


## DrB0b

> Hey Bob your fuking the thread up,with you pathetic attempts.


In English,  please. This is an English language forum and none of us have the time or inclination to decrypt your gibberish.

----------


## Horatio Hornblower

see you on the next thread :rofl:

----------


## terry57

> I had a wonderful time ilin SE Asia before I had to take responsibility for my loved ones,  For those of us,  like me,  who have wives and children here we need to make sure they have places in the real world,  only the lowest type of narcissist would condemn his loved ones to being uneducated paupers in the developing world.



My take on raising kids in Thailand is this. 

Once a person brings children into the mix life gets very complicated and the responsibility is huge.

It's hard enough raising kids in a proper country let alone this shit hole with it's associated challenges. 

The big one is the cost of a proper education, one must go to an International School just to reach a standard which is provided mostly free in a public school in Australia. 

The financial burden for starters ensure that the Farang will be paying till the end of his days.

If not seriously cashed up he is condemned to working. 

Na fuk that lot,  Thailand is only enjoyed when not treated seriously. 

If one wants to be serious stay in a real country, not this fukin mad house.

----------


## Horatio Hornblower

Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post

I had a wonderful time ilin SE Asia before I had to take responsibility for my loved ones

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  crikey sure sound like loved ones.

----------


## kingwilly

Phark me.

Jack, Terry and pi all showing class.

----------


## terry57

^

If you stay around long enough Willy you may learn a bit of  " Class ".

But on second thoughts,

 NA, fuk off out of the thread you will never learn or have any " Class "    :finger:

----------


## DrB0b

> Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
> 
> I had a wonderful time ilin SE Asia before I had to take responsibility for my loved ones
> 
>  crikey sure sound like loved ones.


To anybody who understands basic grammar.  You can't even quote properly,  you dimwit.

----------


## Horatio Hornblower

Bob was it Painful for you to take responsibility for your loved ones. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## lom

> If all farang just take on Board that they own shit in this Micky Mouse country all will be good and never a tear shed.  Exactly why I will never expose more than 25 Baht of my wealth here.  Saying that, I love living here because I have exactly fuk all to lose and can leave in 5 minutes.  This is how things will stay as well.


You have repeated that mantra of yours over years here but there is no need for that, we all know that this is your excuse for being shit scared of a serious commitment.




> Golden rule#1 never enter into anything here in Thailand be it Marriage or Business that you cannot afford to walk away from .


Terry has zigeunerblut in his veins and and a Superfund on its way down the shitter so he'll only rent in Thailand.

----------


## boloa

> The divorce rate is still high in the U.S. at 53%. But Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg, the Czech Republic, and Hungary are worse off with divorce rates higher than 60%. Belgium has the highest rate of divorce in this data set at a staggering 70%. The lowest official rate is in Chile with 3%.


Those bitches from Belgium sound worse than any Bar Girl  :Smile:

----------


## Horatio Hornblower

Terry perhaps some are a liitle peeved at your freedom :Smile:

----------


## piwanoi

> Terry perhaps some are a liitle peeved at your freedom


  Like you for instance? :rofl:

----------


## piwanoi

Here's Yasso's tribute song  :Smile:

----------


## piwanoi

> never mind yawn


 Is that the best you can do Love lorn ?Yeah Baldrick called it right in the Rice thread about you being smitten by the delectable Ying ,forget it our kid cos its not the size of your cock what really matters', only your bank account ,and as your wifes got that nailed to the wall , try and live in the real world . :smiley laughing:

----------


## piwanoi

> Pi just trying to guard you against future attacks from the Rural siamese,and how they exploit the old.


  Yeah I'm sure you are, and back tracking a little and reading your post 83 ,I'm so glad you've got your problems sorted  out after confessing of your years of Paranoia  :Smile:

----------

