#  >  > Living And Legal Affairs In Thailand >  >  > Living In Thailand Forum >  >  > Health, Fitness and Hospitals in Thailand >  >  the exercise & workout thread

## barbaro

Those that have seen me know, I have a good amount of fat.  In fact, since coming to South-East Asia I've gained at least 35+ lbs.  Mostly due to beer, I believe.  It's not healthy.  

So, this week, I went back to the gym for the first time in a very long time.  I think it may have been 2 years.  Terrible.

As soon as I went back to the gym I used to go to, I felt good mentally.  Because it's been so long I am starting off slow.  Then, I'll work my way up in intensity and during, etc.

My first weight training day was Friday, June 27th.   Today, June 30th, I did 35 minutes of moderate cardio. 

Just a warm up to get the body and muscles moving last Friday.


Chest: DB press.  smaller weights - to slightly heavier - slightly heavier.  About 3 X 12-14

Back: Lat Pull Downs (bar), smaller - heavier - heavier - in front 6, behind back 6, Palms Out (PO)

Chest: Vertical press (machine) same rep ratio.

Triceps: Push down (rope) 2 X 8, 3rd to failure

Biceps: Sitting DB Curls 3 X 8-9

Shrugs: DBs, 4 X ~25

Legs: Horizontal Leg Press, same ratios.


Moderate cardio for 10 min. on exercise bike after the weight training.


This was a very limited workout.  Only one back exercise. 


Later today, I'll post my old splits with all exercises and rep ratios for 

Chest/tris
Back/bis
Shoulders 
Legs

In the past I would hit only muscle group once per week.  But this required going to the gym 5 days per week (with cardio) and that can lead to burnout and boredom.  But now I'll probably do a 3 day per week split, so I'll probably do 

Monday       Day 1: Chest/Tris/Shoulder

Tuesday      Day 2: Rest 

Wednesday: Day 3: Back/Bis

Thursday:    Day 4: Cardio (HIIT)

Friday:        Day 5: Rest

Saturday:    Day 6: Legs

Sunday:      Day 7: Rest


If I have to separate Cardio (exercise bike) 2 days before Legs, I can switch the schedule around.  I should add one more day of rest or put legs in between Chest and Back days because of synergy. 


Supplements: Protein sources from food only (+ vitamins, fish oil, b-complex)

Pre-workout meal
Post Workout Out 1 
Post Workout Out 2

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## ChiangMai noon

you quit drinking as well?

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## reinvented

good on yer snaff
i'm gonna start one of these to
inspirational

im in pretty much the same situation as you weight gain wise and the reasons for it, but enough about me

need to watch the diet, and consistency is the main thing
unforunately you also gott lay off the beer too 

good luck

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## reinvented

> Tricep: Push down (rope) 2 X 8, 3rd to failure Bicep: Sitting DB Curls 3 X 8-9 Shrugs: DBs, 4 X ~25 Legs: Horizontal Leg Press, same ratios.


stop with the vanity exercises and squat something, wont help the weight but more useful and will burn more calories

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## barbaro

> you quit drinking as well?


No, sir.  No intention to, neither.  I also won't be changing diet that much. 

I will not be chasing protein, like I have in the past.  It's expensive and time consuming.  I will probably have a daily intake of .5 grams per pound.  This is fine.  I am not competing and joints, muscle, and heart health is also a major motivation for me.

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## ChiangMai noon

^
i have stopped because i find it impossible to get any training done when i'm drinking.

you also lose the weight 5 times quicker.

i have started doing weight again and bought a punchbag.

my midi gum is in my garden.

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## barbaro

> Originally Posted by Milkman
> 
> Tricep: Push down (rope) 2 X 8, 3rd to failure Bicep: Sitting DB Curls 3 X 8-9 Shrugs: DBs, 4 X ~25 Legs: Horizontal Leg Press, same ratios.
> 
> 
> stop with the vanity exercises and squat something, wont help the weight but more useful and will burn more calories


I will add squats and deadlifts into my routine after about 2 weeks.  I have to go slow because it's been so long.  (That's why I did horizontal leg press.)  Also, I firmly believe in using as much free weights as possible, as opposed to nautilas/machines.

I'll post a very detailed split involving 5+ exercise for Shoulders (front, middle, back deltoids), back, chest, legs, etc.

My training routine in general once I get going:

Reverse Pyramids to maximum failure.  

This will allow you a 25 minute weight training workout that will knock your ass down.  But the results will be very good.  To each their own, of course.

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## Travelmate

should do more cardio and less of the weights, if you are wanting to burn fat off. I do an hour cardio followed by 15 to 20 mins of weight lifting. 5 days per week.
And definitely stay off the booze or rather drink less to start off with.

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## barbaro

> should do more cardio and less of the weights, if you are wanting to burn fat off. I do an hour cardio followed by 15 to 20 mins of weight lifting. 5 days per week.
> And definitely stay off the booze or rather drink less to start off with.


I agree with you, Travelmate.  I may add one more day of cardio, and/or add the extra day after a Chest Day.  I can adjust this also.  Adding cardio, etc.  I won't be taking much rest between the different exercises, the heart with be beating quickly.  In general with this workout and minor changes in how I eat (not necessarily _what_ I eat) should get the fat off.  But it will be slowly and I'm in no hurry. 

I agree with CMN that:




> i have stopped because i find it impossible to get any training done when i'm drinking.
> 
> you also lose the weight 5 times quicker.
> 
> i have started doing weight again and bought a punchbag.
> 
> my midi gum is in my garden.


Beer (booze) hinders motivation, gains, and the ability to lose fat and gain muscle.  So, true.  But that's the way it is.

I think the punching can really be a good workout.

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## AntRobertson

Here's an interesting website: Exercise Encyclopedia » Videos &#187; CoopersGuns Health, Fitness &#038; BodyBuilding

Probably more helpful to beginners (not to much of use to anyone who already knows what they are doing) but it's interesting how it breaks down the muscle group(s) and exercises and shows videos for each to give an idea of correct technique etc.

I sometimes use it just to double check that my form's ok.

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## Travelmate

the real problem is when your mates call you for a drink. Hard to say no.

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## barbaro

> the real problem is when your mates call you for a drink. Hard to say no.


I have no intention of eliminating beer.  Although for work, and other reasons, I may drink less.  But there is no plan to reduce beer at this time.  

I am also not going to weigh myself, as I've never believed the scale is a good way to calculate any gains, or lack of.

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## reinvented

> My training routine in general once I get going: Reverse Pyramids to maximum failure. This will allow you a 25 minute weight training workout that will knock your ass down. But the results will be very good. To each their own, of course.


sound like a good idea, i like pyramids too
perhaps look into body for life approach or a 5X5
search for stronglifts.com or madcow 5X5
not sure about reverse pyramids, wheteher the extra low weight reps are necessary




> should do more cardio and less of the weights, if you are wanting to burn fat off. I do an hour cardio followed by 15 to 20 mins of weight lifting. 5 days per week. And definitely stay off the booze or rather drink less to start off with.


not entirely, shouldnt leave the weights out, but do do the cardio as well

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## Travelmate

> not entirely, shouldnt leave the weights out, but do do the cardio as well


weights are still included. just looking to firm up rather than bulk up.

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## barbaro

[quote=reinvented;675636]


> My training routine in general once I get going: Reverse Pyramids to maximum failure. This will allow you a 25 minute weight training workout that will knock your ass down. But the results will be very good. To each their own, of course.





> sound like a good idea, i like pyramids too
> perhaps look into body for life approach or a 5X5
> search for stronglifts.com or madcow 5X5
> not sure about reverse pyramids, wheteher the extra low weight reps are necessary


I have done 5 X 5.  They seem to work great, as long as I keep track of the weight (how heavy, as opposed to the last workout).  I think this goes for everything.

I too, have wondered about the last lighter reps on Reverse Pyramids.   But I am going to failure on the last set.  If the weight is calculated/kept track off you can start off high and heavy (%) of your 1 rep max.  Say, first set, 80%, second, 75-70, third, 60%.  Some good results can happen.  So many different ways, out there.  

I don't want to go too heavy, though.


Later I'll post a program by a semi-pro.  Only because he adjusts his training by _week._  He tries to trick the body from adapting.

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## barbaro

Did general upper-body today.  Don't want to sound redundant, but I'll post what I did this morning.  Strength is returning.  

I had to alter my routine of exercises because there were a few people using weights, benches, and machines that I wanted to use.  

In this order I did:

Back: Lat Pull-down (behind neck) warm-up, then 2 x 12ish 3rd to failure

Chest: Vertical Press, 2 x 10-12, 3rd to failure

Back: Vertical sit-down row (bar) 2 x 10-12 3rd, to failure

Chest: DB bench press 2 x 10-12, 3rd to "shaking"

Shoulders: Shrugs 2 x 25-30, 3rd to failure

Chest PecDeck 1 x 8-10, 2nd to failure 

Triceps: Standing pushdown (y-rope) 2 x 8, 3rd to failure

Biceps: Sit-down curls "21s"  1 x 8-10, 2nd to failure

Total workout time: 40 minutes


Next time I do shoulders I'll try 5 out of the seven below:

Military Press - anterior (front) deltoids
Standing Flys (lateral) side deltoids
Lying-flat DB rows (posterior) rear deltoids
Upright rows (barbell) anterior (front) deltoids
One arm DB raises (anterior) deltoids
DB Front rows (anterior) 
Shrugs - Traps

Better to do rear delts on back day, IMO.

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## Travelmate

u did all of above in 40 mins in a public gym?? Usually takes me over an hour and a half. when I was working out in California. Prefer to work out at home. Entire gym to myself.....

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## barbaro

> u did all of above in 40 mins in a public gym?? Usually takes me over an hour and a half. when I was working out in California. Prefer to work out at home. Entire gym to myself.....


Yes, in the morning it's not that crowded.  Where I go, I would never consider going at night.  It's insane.  Packed.  People swinging DBs around, and those long sticks to stretch.  Have to wait to do anything.  

After 40 minutes your body starts producing the hormone cortisol, which actually can cause muscle to break down.  Endurance athletes of course, will train longer for endurance.

I move quickly.  I probably take 60 second breaks or less between sets for recover.  The heart usually stays beating.  

Depending on how much weight we lift, it's easy to over-train.  Of course, endurance athletes train lighter, and for longer periods.  

I make sure I have a good Pre-work out meal that I finish 1 hour before. Plenty of carbs and about 40 grams of protein, then I have a Post work out 1 meal right after.  I don't eat a post workout meal #2, ninety minutes later.  

I don't want to gain weight.  I don't want a lot of mass.

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## Travelmate

yes night time is when I go.
Understand about the cortisol, also been informed need to do cardio for minimum 45 mins before you actually start to burn fat. Nowadays I keep my weight training to max 20mins. Cardio 60mins. Works very well for me. But get boring fairly quickly.

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## barbaro

> ....need to do cardio for minimum 45 mins before you actually start to burn fat.


With HIIT (high intensity interval training) you can met the fat away in 20 minutes.  Up to you of course.  Many people prefer median and long term moderate cardio.

HIIT, if done right with diet and the timing, will melt the fat away.  




> Nowadays I keep my weight training to max 20mins. Cardio 60mins. Works very well for me. But get boring fairly quickly.


Yes, it can get boring, and get boring quickly.

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## reinvented

> With HIIT (high intensity interval training) you can met the fat away in 20 minutes. Up to you of course. Many people prefer median and long term moderate cardio. HIIT, if done right with diet and the timing, will melt the fat away. Quote:


you have to be reasonably fit to do HIIT
45-60 mins of low intensity targets fat supplies rather than eating into muscle gains, even a fast walk can do this

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## Travelmate

> Originally Posted by Milkman
> 
> With HIIT (high intensity interval training) you can met the fat away in 20 minutes. Up to you of course. Many people prefer median and long term moderate cardio. HIIT, if done right with diet and the timing, will melt the fat away. Quote:
> 
> 
> you have to be reasonably fit to do HIIT
> 45-60 mins of low intensity targets fat supplies rather than eating into muscle gains, even a fast walk can do this


Bingo!

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## barbaro

^ true ^ true, I believe.

It just takes time.

On HIIT you can do low-level HIIT if your not "fit."

You do HIIT on an empty stomach, and you do not east for 1 hour until your finished.

The body taps into fat for energy.

20 minutes and the you will see differences quickly. 


To each their own of course.  I know many who prefer low-mid-mod cardio for longer periods.

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## chitown

I envy you. 

I have been dead in the water for four weeks with a joint injury.  :Sad:

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## barbaro

> I have been dead in the water for four weeks with a joint injury.


Chi, was this related to lifting?  I get the impression that you go, heavy.

I started workout again with weights in large part because of my joints.  I want to better, and more muscle to support them.

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## Travelmate

> You do HIIT on an empty stomach, and you do not east for 1 hour until your finished.


can't do in my case. Home from work. Eat dinner. then go to gym.

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## barbaro

> Originally Posted by Milkman
> 
> You do HIIT on an empty stomach, and you do not east for 1 hour until your finished.
> 
> 
> can't do in my case. Home from work. Eat dinner. then go to gym.


You can do HIIT if you have not eaten for 3 hours.

I'm not advocating HIIT though.  You already have your preference.

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## barbaro

Today, July 2nd:

Went for a fast paced walk for 1.5 hours. 


(NNTR: no need to reply.)

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## chitown

Yes weight lifting is how I injured myself.

I have consistently pushed myself to do very heavy weights with 6 to 8 reps per set. (15 to 20 sets per body part.) It seems those days are over.

If I am ever 100%, I think I will be doing lighter weigh with 20 plus reps. I plan to do light dumbbells more and also machine work instead of free weights. I will also focus on cardio and endurance training.

I have suffered three injuries since the beginning of the year. My joints can't take the heavy stuff anymore. This last one has even interfered with everyday task like turning a door knob, shifting gears and steering  :Sad: 




> Originally Posted by chitown
> 
> 
> I have been dead in the water for four weeks with a joint injury. 
> 
> 
> Chi, was this related to lifting?  I get the impression that you go, heavy.
> 
> I started workout again with weights in large part because of my joints.  I want to better, and more muscle to support them.

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## barbaro

> Yes weight lifting is how I injured myself.
> 
> I have consistently pushed myself to do very heavy weights with *6 to 8 reps per set.* (15 to 20 sets per body part.) It seems those days are over.


Yeah, this is going heavy.   :beer: 




> If I am ever 100%, I think I will be doing lighter weigh with 20 plus reps. I plan to do light dumbbells more and also machine work instead of free weights. I will also focus on cardio and endurance training.
> 
> *I have suffered three injuries since the beginning of the year.*


This is a wake-up call, IMO.  We are not in our early 20s anymore.  A lot of guys who've been training for years, have stopped doing certain exercises, and reduced weights they used to use.

As we know, heavy, is actually hard on the the joints. 




> My joints can't take the heavy stuff anymore. This last one has even interfered with everyday task like turning a door knob, shifting gears and steering


Adapt and go lighter.  Just MO.  It isn't worth interfering and ruining, your quality of life. 

It sounds like your joint injury was upper body, perhaps arm related. 

Best of luck on recovery.  Patience needed on recovery.

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## chitown

I want to get back to it. I can only do leg work and some cardio at this point. Anything else is quite painful and results in me taking pain killers. 

I am hoping to be lifting again in 2 to 4 more weeks, but not counting on it.

Light weights are just as good with more reps. also it is not in the least bit damaging to your joints.

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## barbaro

> I want to get back to it. I can only do leg work and some cardio at this point. Anything else is quite painful and results in me taking pain killers.


You should not even be touching weights, IMO.

It's not worth it. 




> I am hoping to be lifting again in 2 to 4 more weeks, but not counting on it.


Maybe you can, but be extra sure.

You can tell what your injury is if you want.  What exercise(s)?

I post on 2 health/BBing forums.

What's funny is that I was invited to be a Mod on one major, BB forum.  I said, "maybe later."  I guess a fat f*ck like me, who pretends to have knowledge is good enough.  In fact, most posters on BBing forums are likely like me, with just a few that are shredded, and very, very knowledgeable.

Some mods and posters on these forums have extensive knowledge on medical/nutrionts/supps/health/BBing.

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## mrsquirrel

I'm trying out a muscle shock routine to try and kick start my muscles again. There haven't been many gains in the last 6 months. Got stuck on a plateau.

      Monday       Dumbbell Bench Press Heavy   weights, 3 x 10, 10, 8 (heavier on the final set) reps
Tricep Dip Move the handles out   wider to focus more on the chest. Lean forward. 3 x 10 reps
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press   Bench at a 30 degree angle. 3 x 10 reps Lying Tricep Extension   (skullcrusher) Focus on form, keep your elbows in. 3 x 10 reps
One Arm Dumbbell Extension Standing or seated, doesn't matter. 3 x 10 reps
Tricep Extension Heavy weights.   3 x 8-10
Barbell Front Raise Use either   1 dumbbell or a barbell. 3 x 10 Dumbbell Lateral Raise Form is   important here not weights. 3 x 10 reps

Tuesday       Wide Grip Pull Up Assisted pull   up if needed/Lat pull down. 3   x 10 reps
Lat Pull Down 3 x 10 reps
Straight Arm Lat Pull Down 3 x   10 reps
Reverse Fly Either use the machine or   dumbbells. 3 x 10 reps Upright Row 3 x 10 reps
Standing Barbell Curl Load up   for heavy weights, 3 x 8-10 reps Preacher Curl 3 x 10 reps
Incline Dumbbell Curl 45 degree   incline bench, 3 x 10 reps

Wednesday       Squat Heavy squats 4 x 10, 10,   10, 8 reps Dumbbell Lunge 3 x 8 on each   leg
45 Degree Leg Press Heavy   again, 3 x 10 reps Leg Curl 3 x 10 reps
Leg Extension Heavy sets. 3 x   6-10
Standing Calf Raise Very heavy   sets! Adding weight after each set. 5 x 10, 10, 8, 6, 4 reps
Seated calf Raise 5 x 10 reps

Thursday       Barbell Bench Press Add weight   after every set. 4 x 10, 10, 8, 6
Dumbbell Flys Every 2nd week   superset these dumbbell flys with the barbel bench press. 3 x 10 reps
Cable Crossovers Cross hands   right over and hold for 1 second for each rep. 3 x 10 reps
Close Grip Bench Press Heavy. 4   x 10, 10, 8, 8
Lying Dumbbell Extension 3 x 10   reps
Tricep Kickback Make sure you   use good form! 3 x 10
Seated Dumbbell Press 3 x 10   reps
One Arm Cable Lateral Raise 3 x   10 reps

Friday       Seated Row 4 x 10 reps
Bent Over Barbell Row 3 x 10   reps
Bent Over Row 3 x 10 reps
Cable Curl 3 x 8-10 reps heavy
Concentration Curl 3 x 10 reps
Reverse Barbell Curl This is   put in to hit your forearms as well. 3 x 10 reps
 Upright Row (or spics)3 x 10 reps

Plus warmup cardio and finishing cardio ~40-60minutes a day.

It's a tough workout and I feel it a lot. First time in months I'm getting home and I am feeling tired and ready to relax. Mornings are a little hard to get up as well.

Stick this out for four weeks and see how I am doing. Can't do much more than that or I will be permanently tired.

I moved from my old routine to a 3x3 for four weeks then a 5x5 for a couple of weeks then onto this. Hopefully the change in routine and workout will get my body working again.

-- Got this routine from Muscle and Strength

Sorry for jumping on your thread there Milky but everybody else had joined in.

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## barbaro

> I'm trying out a muscle shock routine to try and kick start my muscles again. There haven't been many gains in the last 6 months. Got stuck on a plateau.




By gains, do you mean strength or mass?  (Or, both?)

5 days a week on the weights is a lot.  Do you do this cardio everyday?





> Sorry for jumping on your thread there Milky but everybody else had joined in.


Please jump in mrsquirrel.  The more the merrier on this thread.  I decided to exercise again mainly for my health.  Heart, joints, movement.  I've become very lazy and my heartbeat (HB) had been beating faster, even when I lay in bed.  I am assuming my cholesterol HDL/LDL levels and blood pressue (BP) are not good. 

I am eating oats again with cinnamon, a banana per day, and 1/2 tablespoon of EVOO (Extra Virgin Olive Oil) with breakfast.  Trying to cut down on saturated fats on animals, which I have done for several months. 

As they say, "diet is everything."

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## mrsquirrel

> 5 days a week on the weights is a lot. Do you do this cardio everyday?


Everyday but only for a month or so though. Then into a two day on one day of split routine.

Normal routine was a different muscle group every day plus cardio. Sat/Sun off. 
Found I had reached a point where I wasn't going forward anymore. 
Couldn't get any more on the bench press, squats,curls, just stuck there week in week out getting rather bored.

Read around and looked for what would offer me the best way of getting moving again. Joined a couple of body building forums and advice was to move to a 3x5 (with a few extras thrown in) and then onto a 5x5 (pyramids on the bench press and shoulders). Three day routine.
I did it for a while but found them boring and not very satisfying. Further discussions via PM with some big black dude was to give myself a month or so of hard training. He suggested I look up muscle shock and how to kick start my muslces again. Especially as I had been basically working them individually rather than in compound exercises. 

So a month or so of this muscle shocking routine sounded like it fitted what I wanted to do. 2nd week into it and I am feeling it all over. First time in a long time I am coming out of the gm feeling that I have done some decent work.

No way could I keep it up for much longer than a month. 

I came across an interesting article suggesting I setup a rolling routine - 3 weeks on before changing to the next one. Put in four different workouts and it will keep things fresh and make it more interesting at the gym.

Might well give that a go.

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## barbaro

> Found I had reached a point where I wasn't going forward anymore.  Couldn't get any more on the bench press, squats,curls, just stuck there week in week out getting rather bored.


Yeah, the body adapts.  Changing routines, splits, exercises, weight ratios, rep ranges , and doing a "shock week" (supersets) periodically can help one break through plateaus.  The body is very sneaky.  It adapts, and then we have to change our routine to break through the barrier.  Let us know how the new routine works. 

Keep us posted.

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## barbaro

July 4th, 2008

Legs & Cardio

Odd to do both on the same day, but the leg lifting was only a warmup.  I'm going very slow because of a left knee issue, and I feel some discomfort.  It will be about 2 more weeks before moderate to heavier lifting on legs.  Anyway, here is the warmup.

Warmup - Body Squats, no bar, no weight
Squats - bar only 3 X 10
Sitting Leg raise - 2 X 12

Standing Calf raises - no weight, with wooden plank
One Legged Standing Calf Raises - no weight
One Legged Standing Calf Rasies - 10 lbs.
Sitting Calf Raises - no weight
Horizontal Leg Press (machine) light weight, 3 X 12-15

Will add lunges and Roman Squats and others in future.

Moderate Cardio (HB ~120-130 per minute) Stationary exercise bike

Cardio 28-30 minutes:

Total time: 41 minutes

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## Marmite the Dog

My biggest problem is that I rely upon others for weights and squash. I've done nothing this week as Reinvented had to cancel weights on Monday, I got a BS excuse for cancelling squash on Tues, I was unavailable on Wed, Thu is a day off and if I'm lucky I'll get a game of squash in tonight, but I'm not holding out much hope.  :Sad:

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## chitown

MtD,

Go by yourself for the weight training. Do light weights and use dumb bells so you don't require a spotter.


Also, I take my wife and she works out with eights right along with me. A lot lighter weights though! We talk and joke around and it keeps us from getting bored.

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## barbaro

> My biggest problem is that I rely upon others for weights and squash. I've done nothing this week as Reinvented had to cancel weights on Monday, I got a BS excuse for cancelling squash on Tues, I was unavailable on Wed, Thu is a day off and if I'm lucky I'll get a game of squash in tonight, but I'm not holding out much hope.


It's hard having a partner because of scheduling, change of plans, and keeping up the general interest by both partners.  The more I (and many of us) go to the gym or play a sport, the more boring it may become.  People also have work, SO, and other commitments.  Weights and Cardio, I prefer no partner.  But with a squash, of course we need a partner, as with other sports that require 2 or more people.  Yes, it can be tough, when you're amped up and motivated and _ready_ and your partner decides, or has to, cancel.  Besta luck.

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## chitown

I take Mrs. Chi with me. She lifts weights and does all the things I do......uhhh except a lot less weight.  :Smile:  It keeps it from getting boring as we talk and joke around during the workout.

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## mrsquirrel

^ I take mine with me.

She banters with my mates wife, runs etc and has gotten into better shape.

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## barbaro

July 6, 2008, Sunday

Chest/Back/Bi/Tri

Still doing basic upper body, and giving the body time to get used to lifting again.  Not hitting shoulders specifically yet.  Lifting heavier now, but rep range varies.  

Chest: DB press - 3 X 8-12

Back:  Lat Pull down (bar) - 3 X 8 -10

Chest: DB flys (lying on back) - 3 X 8 - 10

Back:  Vertical Row (Machine) - 3 X 8

Shrugs: 2 X ~25, 3rd to failure

Chest:  Vertical Press (machine) - 1 X 10, 2nd to failure

Tri - push downs (y-rope) - 1 X 7, 2nd to failure

Bi -  Sitdown isolation curls, "21s" to failure


Total time: 38 minutes

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## barbaro

Finally got back into it, after six days due to travel delays and jet lag. 

Chest/Back/Bi/Tri

Chest: Flat DB Press - 3 x 10-12

Back/Post Delts: Incline T-bar Row (w/ bumper plates) - 2 x 12, 3rd x 8-9 (75 lbs.)

Chest: Flat DB Pec Flys - (warm up on pec dec machine)
2 x 8, 3rd to failure

Back: Lat Pull-down (bar) - 2 x 8-9, 3rd to failure

Traps: Shrugs - 3 x 25-30

Bis: Sitting Isolated DB curl - "21s" to failure

Tris: Tri standing push downs (rope) 2 x 9, 3rd to failure (slow burn)


Total time 41 minutes

Prework out meal: Roast beef and whole wheat bread
Post work out 1: Chicken and whole wheat bread
Post work out 2: same as PWO1

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## Marmite the Dog

I have found a new chap to play squash with as the curent chap is moving in a few weeks.

Last week I did weights twice (Mon & Wed) and squash twice (Tue & Sat). My wrist hurts after using my hand to prevent a smash into the wall.

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## barbaro

July 15th, 2008, Tuesday: (US time)

Cardio

Exercise bike warm up 5 minutes.

Hamstring stretch, calf stretch, Qaud stretch

Cardio, exercise bike, 35+ minutes.
Moderate to middle-upper: HB 120-130+ during last 50% of time.

Squats: body squats only, no weights, 2 x 10+ 

Basketball dribble: 5 minutes.


Weight: 228 lbs. (with shoes, shorts on).


*My goal is not to lose weight, although weight will decrease if I keep exercising regularly.

Very light on food:

Pre-workout: 2 egg whites 1 yoke, 1 banana, and 1 slice of whole wheat bread.

Post-workout: 2 eggs whites, 1/2 a yoke, and 1 slice of whole wheat bread.

Next workout: Shoulders, forearms

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## mrsquirrel

My new training program is going well.

I'm tired at the end of the week, but there is a noticeable difference in muscle tone and strength. Quite happy with the routine. I need to look for something to change to in the next couple of weeks though for a new routine.

----------


## reinvented

Mrs Q
have you heard of EDT, a routine by a guy called charles stately? its akiller but may be difficult in a public gym at peak times

moved up to 3 times a week now. for 1 week at least, spending 1 day doing heavier weights, gonna try and get in the habit of doing a little something everyday, and move on to a 5x5 in a few weeks time

marmers you on for tonight?

----------


## mrsquirrel

EDT has snatch and cleans as a big part to it. Is that right?

I will go back to a 5x5 in a few weeks. Spend maybe six weeks on it and then back to something else - possibly this shock routine or the mental triple set one I had.

I haven't found a 5 x 5 I am happy with yet.

I really want one that is mon tue - thur fri but not seen one that stands out yet.

This muscle shock routine has really hammered me. Been quite surprised as to how tired I've been in the evenings. Noticing less now this week though so it's getting close to time to change. 
I've found that once I stop feeling tired at night after a workout I'm not pushing myself as hard and need to get into a new routine.

----------


## reinvented

yeah, usually the 2nd day after is when i feel it
i need to start pushing it a bit
habit first  i guess and then the 5x5

the EDT you can use what you want i believe

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> marmers you on for tonight?


Ummm... no.  :Smile:

----------


## barbaro

July 16th, 2008, Wednesday (US time)

Shoulders:

1. DB Arnold Press - 3 x 8-9, 4th to failure

2. Upright Rows (barbell) - 3 x 8-10

3. DB Standing Lateral flys - 3 x 8-9, 4th to failure

4. Incline Press (barbell) - 3 x 12 

5. Reverse barbell curls (for forearms) 2 x 6, 3rd to failure

6. Military Press (smith bar) - could not do 1 rep. fatique

6b. DB Standing Lateral flys again, 1 x 4 (and to failure)

7. Cardio - exercise bike 7 minutes. HB raised, reduced 2x (minor HIIT) 
after lifting. 


Total Time: 43 minutes.

*First lift I like to do for Shoulder is Military Press (smith bar) heavy, but the smith bar was being used for a while. Coudn't do them when I wanted. Tried at end of routine but could not. Fatique. Also tried Machine "raises" on nautilus, but couldn't do them. 

*First shoulder day in a very, very, long time. Shoulders have always respond well to lifting however.

Pre-workout meal: 2 boca burger patties (50 gms of protein) with 2 slices of whole weat bread, and 1/2 tablespoon of EVOO.

Post workout meal: 2 boca burger patties (50 gms of protein with 1 and 1/4 slice of whole weat bread w/ mustard. 

Water: drinking minimum 4 litres per day.

----------


## The Fresh Prince

Try some of the training programs on this site,

Welcome to CrossFit: Forging Elite Fitness

I always switch to this when I've hit a platau. It really mixes things up and with great results.

----------


## reinvented

crossfit is excellent GPP
for getting alround fit
crossfitters tend to be GPP nazis though
still female crossfitters tend to have nice arses

depends what you want i guess
theres a bodyweight exercise version called simplefit which is quite good to

----------


## The Fresh Prince

What's GPP?

----------


## reinvented

general physical preparedness
as opposed to bbdy building or olmpic/ powerlifting

GPP gets you fit by any definition
bodybuilding gets you snatch or cocks depending on what you want
powerflifting gets you fat and strong and mean, and you get to snarl at dudes 2x your size who cant lift half as much as you do

me
anything that will stop me being a fat bastard will do

----------


## minime

This was my training this morning, started with an 8 k run and ended with pain, I managed 3 rounds with Boo who is ex RatchaDamnoen Stadium champion. I'm so far out of his league. 
I've never lifted weights and would be interested, if anyone wants to show me how to do it properly.

----------


## minime



----------


## reinvented

where do you train min?

----------


## minime

Sasiprapa . Soi Ladprao 130 Bangkapi

One week, Mon, Wed and Friday mornings, next week Tue and Thursday mornings and an hour on Saturday afternoon before football.

----------


## barbaro

Did Back/Chest/Bi/Tri, and 10 minutes of higher cardio to finish off, yesterday.  Same routine as before.  Been very erratic lately because of family commitments, and not wanting to pay the daily fee which is very high because I'm not a member.

----------


## spikebs4

hi read your reply i prefer to train at home more conveniant . i stay in pattaya do you know where i can buy heavyduty home gyms ... cheers ...

----------


## reinvented

spike
see ant's thread on wanting equipment
or try here
GymWare Limited: On-Line Catalog

----------


## Marmite the Dog

Well, seeing as everyone else has hijacked Milky's thread....

I did another 3 hours of squash last night. I was fekked, so I went for a nice oil massage afterwards. Only 500B as well!

Now to undo all my hard work over the weekend.  :Smile:

----------


## mrsquirrel

Had a crap week with a slight cold that has left me drained. 

Managed Monday - light day, Tuesday I was fucked, Wed light legs, Thur heavy chest and triceps (wish I hadn't now). Today. Light biceps, shoulders, back.

Hopefully back on form for next week.

----------


## barbaro

> Well, seeing as everyone else has hijacked Milky's thread....


That's OK. I welcome it.  Thanks for contributing.  I am on the outs while I'm on holiday.  




> I did another 3 hours of squash last night. I was fekked, so I went for a nice oil massage afterwards. Only 500B as well!


3 hours of squash, right on.  Did you eat soon afterwards.




> Now to undo all my hard work over the weekend.


Yeah, I'm on holiday.  Everyday for now.

----------


## spikebs4

many thanks mate will do :UK:

----------


## Marmite the Dog

> 3 hours of squash, right on. Did you eat soon afterwards.


Nope.




> Now to undo all my hard work over the weekend.


And did I!! I dread to think how much booze was consumed last weekend.

----------


## barbaro

> Originally Posted by Milkman
> 
> 3 hours of squash, right on. Did you eat soon afterwards.
> 
> 
> Nope.


You body is catabolic after such workouts and _small_ protein & carbohydrate mix can preserve LBM, and keep you from _losing muscle_ and _retaining fat._ When the body is in a catabolic phase, it taps into muscle for energy. After directly after will prevent this. 




> Now to undo all my hard work over the weekend.


*Marmite the Dog:*



> And did I!! I dread to think how much booze was consumed last weekend.


Me too. I am on holiday at the moment and am eating more and consuming more beers. I haven't worked out in a few days because I don't want to pay the single session fee at US prices. Even the fookin' gyms have raised their prices. And also, I must admit that on holiday, I've become lazy. It will be about 2 weeks before returning to exercising back in South East Asia, for me.

----------


## barbaro

OK.....

My lazy ass went back to the gym.  As those who've met me know, I'm 40+ lbs overweight, and I went to the gym yesterday for health reasons. 

Upper body w/ dumbbell & barbell and cardio.

I'll add more here in this thread to help keep me motivated.

Others, feel free to add any workout routines, formulas, techniques,

or just hop in to chew the fat - literally.

----------


## chitown

Good for your Milky.

One thing I have noticed lately is that when I cut way back on my calories I lose just a little weight. When I eat more I lose more. Its weird, but I lost 2 kilo in a week and ate a lot of food. It was healthy for the most part, except for the Thai sweets Mrs. Chi bought me.  :Yumyum:

----------


## barbaro

> Good for your Milky.
> 
> One thing I have noticed lately is that when I cut way back on my calories I lose just a little weight. When I eat more I lose more. Its weird, but I lost 2 kilo in a week and ate a lot of food. It was healthy for the most part, except for the Thai sweets Mrs. Chi bought me.


Hi,

I've been gaining.  I think it's because of age and I have only been walking for exercise. 

I have been cutting back on simple carbs and carbs in general (complex carbs).

I'm back in the gym for health reason. 

BP, heart, etc.

----------


## Black Heart

Regardless of age (I think a lot of posters here are middle-aged and older) most of us (I think) do some form of exercise.

At middle-age I am lifting and doing cardio on non-lift days 6 days per week. When I have a full day work schedule (they are very long) it's an off day.

For a year / 12 months I've been doing this type of weight lifting split, alternation the weight and reps, and using various exercises to change up.

On a particular day:

Back - Triceps

T-row bar x 4
Pus down (bar) x 4
Lat pull down x 3
Cable row (sometimes) x 3

Other back exercises are included after a few weeks (barbell row, e.g.)

Biceps:

Sitting DB alternate curl x 4
Cable curl x 3-4 (depending on weight load)
EZ bar standing curls x 2
Sometimes a preacher set but not always

Reps if heavy ~65

Chest & Tris

incline BP x 2-3-4
flat BP 2-3-4
Decline 2-3
Cable crossover
Pec Deck machine (sometimes

Sets depends on the weightload for the week. 


Triceps

Close Grip smith bar bench x 4 (about 50 reps)
Overhead w-rope pull x 4 (~30 depending on weight load)
Dips x 3-4
y-rope or bar push down.

Total reps for Triceps are usually 115 (depending on the weightlaod that week. I alternate between heavy low-rep and lighter high rep week to week, more or less.

other Tris exercise are the DB kickback, OH DB raise (behind head) and lying cross trip curl.

Other days:

Legs

Shoulders

Cardio is the stationary bicycle or treadmill: 30 min of mode cardio 120-126 HBP and sometimes HIIT in the AM on an empty stomach, 21 minutes (max).

I may switch to the 5 X 5 workout next week, as I know I need variety. However I don't like doing deads.

What else are members here doing?

Martial arts, dance, Muay Thai, etc?

----------


## Storekeeper

^
Your routine is something very similar to what I was doing from roughly 1979-2004. It's a good healthy routine and keeps you buff without too much effort.

Hoping to slowly work back into it first by getting into a 3 day a week routine.

Have a beautiful swimming pool so maybe I'll give it a try.

Lots of various types of martial arts offered here in Yokosuka. Have a little familiarity with Kenpo so have thought about that. Don't know if I can find the motivation to commit to it.

----------


## somtamslap

Different handholds on the penis work various muscle groups while masturbating. 

The other day I bent over, brought my hand back through my legs and was just about able to eke out a wank. 

A really cool workout.

----------


## Black Heart

> ^
> Your routine is something very similar to what I was doing from roughly 1979-2004. It's a good healthy routine and keeps you buff without too much effort.


25 years. That's experience.




> Hoping to slowly work back into it first by getting into a 3 day a week routine.


Speaking of 3-day per week routine, I have decided to start 5 X 5, after talking with a guy last night. I've read about it a few times before. Now seems like the time to change it up for a couple months or so.

I will incorporate Deads and the Barbell Row (heavier weight) into my Chest-Back day this Saturday. About 2 months ago, I started doing a day for Bis / Tris / separately. It's worked for growth. 

After a week or two I'll make the complete switch to 5 X 5.

Today I did legs.

Pre-work out meal: 3 eggs (scrambled) and 1/2 of of 1/2 cup of oats w/ cinnamon.

After waking up, a freshly squeezed lime in 10-11 oz. of warm water. I packet of non-sugar yoghurt.  In 3 separate glasses, a vitamin + vitamin C fizzy tablet in water, Magnesium fizzy tablet in water and Calcium and Vitamin D3 tablet in water.

(I have a bottle of pills of Magnesium, Zinc, Calcium nitrate, a bottle of Vitamin B-complex, and a bottle of a Multi-vitamin & mineral, but I only take the Vitamin B-complex when in a drinking session and working the next day.)

I take 5-6 grams of Creatine in warm water every morning for 3 months, then take a month off. 

So, after the 3 scrambled eggs and 1/2 of a 1/2 cup of oats w/ cinnamon for pre-workout,

Started first set 1:50 minutes later. Total workout time 37 minutes.

last 10 minutes of lifting session, I take 1,000 mg Vitamin C tablet to ward off Cortisol.

Post-workout meal, 15 minutes after finish: 2 pieces of grilled chilled w/ 1/2 of a 1/2 cup of oats.

90 minutes later, a protein shake w/ some BCAAs included. 25 grams a 1/4 of a 1/2 cup of oats. I'm avoiding simple carbs, high-glycemic carbs post workout. It puffs me up and bloats me. 


Today, Legs:

Squats 1 + 4

1 warm up set with only bar, no weights, then increasing pyramid load (because it's been a long time since I've done squats. 

Leg Extension X 2 (heavier weight, to a lactose burn).

Calf-curls X 2 (heavier weight to a lactose burn)

Sitting calf raises X 4(heavy weight) 4 sets = 50 reps total

Standing calf raises X 4 (heavy weight) 4 sets = 37 for a total of 87 reps. 

Tomorrow: off

Saturday: back - chest, incorporating Deads and BB rows.

----------


## withnallstoke

> The other day I bent over


Calling bullshit on that one fatboy.

----------


## taxexile

> Pre-work out meal: 3 eggs (scrambled) and 1/2 of of 1/2 cup of oats w/ cinnamon.





> After waking up, a freshly squeezed lime in 10-11 oz. of warm water. I packet of non-sugar yoghurt. In 3 separate glasses, a vitamin + vitamin C fizzy tablet in water, Magnesium fizzy tablet in water and Calcium and Vitamin D3 tablet in water.





> (I have a bottle of pills of Magnesium, Zinc, Calcium nitrate, a bottle of Vitamin B-complex, and a bottle of a Multi-vitamin & mineral, but I only take the Vitamin B-complex when in a drinking session and working the next day.)





> I take 5-6 grams of Creatine in warm water every morning for 3 months, then take a month off.





> last 10 minutes of lifting session, I take 1,000 mg Vitamin C tablet to ward off Cortisol.





> Post-workout meal, 15 minutes after finish: 2 pieces of grilled chilled w/ 1/2 of a 1/2 cup of oats.





> 90 minutes later, a protein shake w/ some BCAAs included. 25 grams a 1/4 of a 1/2 cup of oats.



thats all very well, but what do you take to combat your OCD problem?

----------


## Greenery

There are two main types of workout. 

The first is to use medium weights to maintain / improve athleticism and prevent age deterioration of muscle function. I do this 2-3 times per week and find it pleasurable. 

The second is to suffer from mild or severe bigorexia / muscle dysmorphia, whereby you feel a psychological need to have abnormally large muscles, and spend copious amounts of time grunting, snarling, and aggressively slamming heavy weights to the ground at the end of each set in order to achieve your desired appearance and physical gravitas.

----------


## Greenery

SIGNS OF BIGOREXIA:

Overexertion at the gym
Working out compulsively
Abuse of supplements and constant drinking of protein shakes
Irritability and angry outbursts
Depression and mania
Panic if you miss your gym session
You miss important events - like family outings so you can work out

Bigorexia: Body Image Disorder For Men Is On The Increase - Is It A Real Thing?

----------


## Storekeeper

> Pre-work out meal: 3 eggs (scrambled) and 1/2 of of 1/2 cup of oats w/ cinnamon.
> 
> After waking up, a freshly squeezed lime in 10-11 oz. of warm water. I packet of non-sugar yoghurt.  In 3 separate glasses, a vitamin + vitamin C fizzy tablet in water, Magnesium fizzy tablet in water and Calcium and Vitamin D3 tablet in water.
> 
> (I have a bottle of pills of Magnesium, Zinc, Calcium nitrate, a bottle of Vitamin B-complex, and a bottle of a Multi-vitamin & mineral, but I only take the Vitamin B-complex when in a drinking session and working the next day.)
> 
> I take 5-6 grams of Creatine in warm water every morning for 3 months, then take a month off. 
> 
> So, after the 3 scrambled eggs and 1/2 of a 1/2 cup of oats w/ cinnamon for pre-workout,
> ...


I was never really into all the supplement stuff, watching the diet and trying to get huge. I had a day job, like now, and working out was just to stay in shape and keep the weight off. I don't eat any different now than back in the old days but the weight has crept on due to inactivity and getting older. The metabolism will increase and the weight will come off with time.

Forgot to mention I used to do about 20 minutes of stretching before starting the workout. Unlike somtamslap I never had the urge for a wank until after the workout was finished.

----------


## thaimeme

> Pre-work out meal: 3 eggs (scrambled) and 1/2 of of 1/2 cup of oats w/ cinnamon.
> 			
> 		
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> ...


Indeed...
Like most things in the Western existence - overthought and institutionally scheduled, which is not healthy.

----------


## Storekeeper

If you put a little effort into it one side effect of lifting weights is your back gets a little broader and your shoulders get a little bigger which helps to make your belly look smaller than it actually is ...  :Smile:

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by taxexile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Pre-work out meal: 3 eggs (scrambled) and 1/2 of of 1/2 cup of oats w/ cinnamon.
> ...


Seriously, I have not put much thought into this. Over the years, I feel that this helps. Insitutionally scheduled? Only on days I lift.  Not healthy? I think the vitamins and yoghurt and cinnamon are healthy. The other stuff have not proven to be unhealthy.

----------


## KEVIN2008

*I Gym exercise  3-4 days every week....My BP is perfect, my cholesterol is perfect...etc.     good food choices and exercise is a way to ensure you are prolonging your life....i do agree exercising hardcore is overrated. I would prefer walking/cycling etc. but the Irish climate for most of the year is crap.*

----------


## Storekeeper

Couple of under 30 guys at work take all kinds of supplements, protein powder and creative. I tell'em it's a waste of money. All you do is piss and shit that stuff out.

An advantage they have today over us old geezers is everything is on YouTube. Want to learn how to do bent over rows properly ... Youtube it.

----------


## Black Heart

> There are two main types of workout. 
> 
> The first is to use medium weights to maintain / improve athleticism and prevent age deterioration of muscle function. I do this 2-3 times per week and find it pleasurable. 
> 
> The second is to suffer from mild or severe bigorexia / muscle dysmorphia, whereby you feel a psychological need to have abnormally large muscles, and spend copious amounts of time grunting, snarling, and aggressively slamming heavy weights to the ground at the end of each set in order to achieve your desired appearance and physical gravitas.


Greenery,

You only have 2 definitions? Based on what study?

I think there are many more:

Some people just want to move around, perhaps for some unknown or undiagnosed issue. These are the middle-aged and older.

Some go to the gym as a social semi-health issue. They could workout at home, but but to a "fitness center" is something to do. This is particularly true at the more expensive centers.

Then are are those who want to get bigger. They go to the "lifting gyms" where you don't often see cardio bunnies.

Then there are those who are at the gym / fitness center for serious health motivations. They went to the Dr. and got some news / info and are motivated to change,

There are other "groups" also.

----------


## Black Heart

Here is a Mike Mentzer video on the deadlift. I assume, 1980's.

This is not to promote Menzter's HIT workout, it's just a good example.

----------


## Chittychangchang

Variety when it comes to exercise for me is the key.

Cycling, climbing, walking, jogging and a few sessions on the weights.

Whey protein shakes are good after training to increase recovery.

Creatine was scary stuff for me, made me snap and become more aggressive.

----------


## Storekeeper

> Creatine was scary stuff for me, made me snap and become more aggressive.


Ripped Fuel had that same effect on me.

----------


## Jesus Jones

Handling 200kg at 120kph off road is exercise for me.  My daughter keeps me fit and and I'm hoping the jogging will pay off.

----------


## Black Heart

> Variety when it comes to exercise for me is the key.
> 
> Cycling, climbing, walking, jogging and a few sessions on the weights.
> 
> Whey protein shakes are good after training to increase recovery.
> *
> Creatine was scary stuff for me, made me snap and become more aggressive.*


Chitty,

I've read a lot about Creatine and have never read anything about increased aggressiveness with Creatine. 

The good thing on shakes is that most have some BCAAs and Glutamine. Mine has 5.5 gms of BCAAs and 4 gms of Glutamine. I think this is a small amount, but it's something.

I only do shakes when I'm working a lot. I've always preferred just food like Chicken, etc.

With my current schedule I am using shakes. Also make an OK snack with a few oats thrown in on a long work day. 

Today I did a Chest-Back. 35 minutes, but sweated in nearly 40 C heat with ceiling fans.

My arms were also not fully recovered from my Bi/Tri Wednesday session. But they are 85%-90% recovered, if it's even possible to accurately gauge it.

*Chest*

BB incline bench press X 3 (heavy)

BB flat bench press X 2 (heavy)

Cable crossover X 4


*Back*  - I changed the order of exercises this week.

Standing Push Down bar-cable X 3 (heavy)

Mid-row X 3

T-row X 1

That was it. I need to rest.

----------


## Black Heart

Took 3 days off (partly because of work, but mostly because I was still recovering from doing Squats for the first time in several months (perhaps a year).  I also got food poisoned from a restaurant from dinner last night and today, I had that achy miserable feeling while recovering.

No cardio either.

Tomorrow (Wednesday) *Shoulders:*

Over head Press  machine (heavy) X 3

DB Over head Press  X 1


Upright Row (cable) X 4

DB Side Raises 1 + 3 (possible 4 sets)

I don't do BB rows because a year ago I injured my right elbow doing them. (I'm middle-aged).

Over Head Y-rope Pull X 4

For the rear delts, this exercise work very well for me.

DB Shrugs - about 120+ reps

These exercises and sets usually take 40-45 minutes. Sometimes 50 min.

----------


## Storekeeper

Woke up about 4-5 days ago unable to lift my left arm above shoulder level. Today is the first day since that it's feeling like back to normal. Was worried about any potential rotator cuff problems.

----------


## Sumbitch

Looks like Black Heart and Storekeeper are the only posters so far that rightfully might claim to  be gym rats. I make that claim myself, since I have been regularly lifting weights and doing cardio since '90-'92. I remember my first workout. I signed up at Family Fitness (now 24 Hour Fitness) in Buena Park, CA. They offered new customers a free workout session with a trainer. I told him my goal was to work out 6 days/wk and do cardio as well as lift weights during every session. His suggestion was push-pull: chest, shoulders, Mon, Thu: back, bis/tris, Tue, Sat: legs, Wed, Sun. I obsessed with abs so would mix up machines, mats and ball crunches just about every day, followed by 25 minutes on an elliptical machine. Although I am now in Thailand, I still have my 24 Hour Fitness membership (which they grandfathered me into when they expanded) for $17/mo. It's cheaper than my Fitness Thailand membership but Fitness Thailand does come as close or closer to what an ideal gym should be like, given there's never a crowd. Americans know how to work out though. I really enjoy spin classes in Ca but Thais make me uncomfortable in classes. Also, I cringe when I see Thais wearing flip flops. I flip out (I've learned to control this behavior as it will invariably lead to a fight--and the Thais will gang up and try to kick me to death.-- My defense will be to get one on the ground, where he can't use his feet, and break his head in half with my fists. They're not used to using their hands and don't have half my size. Don't laugh, 2 years ago I was teaching English and 4 high school students kicked a fifth to death in a classroom during the lunch hour: classroom empty, unlocked, no teachers moderating. I could cry.) because they NEVER put weights back on the rack so that you easily find the dumb bell or bar bell you're looking for. Anyway, that's my bad as I learned long ago EVERYBODY is sloppy when it comes to gym behavior, i.e., putting weights back on the racks, wiping sweat off machines and benches. And then an amazing turnaround occurred: I started putting weights back for my own benefit and it worked. When you are really hyped up during your exercise/session, it's hard to slow down, breathe deep, relax long enough between sets to take advantage of that energy w/o overdoing it or doing it too quickly. So, I enjoy picking up weights and re-racking them for its own sake. It turns out, I'm more totally ready for my next set/exercise that way (as well as being less likely to injure myself).

Question: what makes you feel guilty when it comes to exercise and workouts?

----------


## Stinky

> Question: what makes you feel guilty when it comes to exercise and workouts?


Missing a session make me feel very guilty, my sessions aren't anything to compared to yous guys but I still manage to do low level cardio on an exercise bike every day, my health has improved immeasurably in the last year as a result.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Missing a session make me feel very guilty, my sessions aren't anything to compared to yous guys but I still manage to do low level cardio on an exercise bike every day, my health has improved immeasurably in the last year as a result.


How many sessions per week are enough so you don't feel guilty? Some people only need 3. I needed 6, at one point. Then I started believing in cycling. Cycling is an important body building concept. It means taking time off. It means lightning up your sessions, gaining weight, losing weight, making your sessions longer, making them harder, then making them twice as hard, feeling guilty, feeling satisfied, feeling successful, feeling like a failure: repeat.

----------


## Storekeeper

> Looks like Black Heart and Storekeeper are the only posters so far that rightfully might claim to  be gym rats.


Used to be but not so much anymore. Trying to get back into it though.

----------


## Greenery

> Originally Posted by Greenery
> 
> 
> There are two main types of workout. 
> 
> The first is to use medium weights to maintain / improve athleticism and prevent age deterioration of muscle function. I do this 2-3 times per week and find it pleasurable. 
> 
> The second is to suffer from mild or severe bigorexia / muscle dysmorphia, whereby you feel a psychological need to have abnormally large muscles, and spend copious amounts of time grunting, snarling, and aggressively slamming heavy weights to the ground at the end of each set in order to achieve your desired appearance and physical gravitas.
> 
> ...


What I meant was, I think there are two main reasons why people lift weights, the first being for health, and secondly for appearance & vanity.

 I've never understood why people want to walk around with abnormally large muscles. It looks fake, like the male version of breast implants, and those that do it seem to be trying to build an "I'm it, you're shit" image to compensate for a flimsy self-esteem.

----------


## somtamslap

> Cycling is an important body building concept. It means taking time off.


 Cycling is meditation on wheels. 20 miles into a ride and I'm in an advanced state of zen. I cannot recommend it enough.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> Looks like Black Heart and Storekeeper are the only posters so far that rightfully might claim to  be gym rats.


I started on weights in the late '60's, as a High School wrestler and lacrosse player. Later, in '69-'70, I turned back to the weight room to repair damage done in Vietnam.

I have lifted my entire adult life. I have a good gym in the house - stair-stepper, stationary bike, weight lifting multi-gym, free weights, heavy bag, etc.

I normally stretch for a while, then do about 20 minutes on the bike, then onto the multi-gym for 30 minutes or so, then free weights for 30 minutes, then back to the bike. I throw in some swimming when the weather is cooperating.

Having been a gym rat for decades was, according to my doc, a major factor in bringing me back quickly and fairly completely after a December 2011 stroke.

Have never used supplements of any kind.

----------


## Black Heart

> Question: what makes you feel guilty when it comes to exercise and workouts?


Nothing. Nothing makes me feel guilty.

As for Push-Pull workouts, yes they work for many people.

As you know, there are many different routines.  Bodybuilding.com has an online questionaire and then you also state your goals - and several different workouts / split come up. 

$17 per month. That's a great deal.

And yes, in SEA, people in the gym are very sloppy. DBs strewn all over the place. It's like a treasure hunt. Lifting in flip-flops and jeans.

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Greenery
> ...


The peope you're referring to, are a small segment of the population. People who have gravitated to that lifestyle. It's a 24 hour lifestyle. Most of the people compete.

I assume members on this board, are exercising for 1. health and 2. appearance and no...not....vanity.

Are bodybuilders vain?  IMO, the vast majority are not vain at all. They are interested in how the body works, they're interested in nutrition, the BBing lifestyle, and again, many compete in competitions.

One serious forum (that's now very slow like most fora is) Bodybuilding #1 Destination at Muscular Development

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by wjblaney
> 
> 
> Looks like Black Heart and Storekeeper are the only posters so far that rightfully might claim to  be gym rats.
> 
> 
> I started on weights in the late '60's, as a High School wrestler and lacrosse player. Later, in '69-'70, I turned back to the weight room to repair damage done in Vietnam.
> 
> I have lifted my entire adult life. I have a good gym in the house - stair-stepper, stationary bike, weight lifting multi-gym, free weights, heavy bag, etc.
> ...


Yes Davis, the evidence is pretty strong that health, recovery from injuries and living longer is tied to physical exercise.  

Not only less health problems but (obviously) a better quality of life because of it.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Just finished. Wiped.....must be 99% humidity.

----------


## Stinky

> How many sessions per week are enough so you don't feel guilty? Some people only need 3. I needed 6, at one point. Then I started believing in cycling. Cycling is an important body building concept. It means taking time off. It means lightning up your sessions, gaining weight, losing weight, making your sessions longer, making them harder, then making them twice as hard, feeling guilty, feeling satisfied, feeling successful, feeling like a failure: repeat.


I need to do 6 sessions a week any less than that and i feel I'm letting it slide. My lungs are like sun dried apricots so its important that they work to their maximum possible efficiency to make up for their small size and irregular shape. When I started cycling last year I couldn't manage five minute now I do 45 minutes so its progressing, albeit slowly. Im not getting as many lung infections since I started cycling either and thats a big benefit.

----------


## Sumbitch

> What I meant was, I think there are two main reasons why people lift weights, the first being for health, and secondly for appearance & vanity.


There's a third main reason: sport-specific weight lifting. Baseball players, football/American football/Australian rules football players, rugby players, swimmers, extreme sports specialists (cyclists, rock & mtn. climbers, MTB), not to mention Olympic weight lifters, all lift in a different way and frequency.




> Cycling is meditation on wheels. 20 miles into a ride and I'm in an advanced state of zen. I cannot recommend it enough.


I love MTB, man. One of the hardest days of my life was riding down the back side of Doi Pui. It wasn't all downhill either. But it was single track, double track, rocks, roots, ruts, rock gardens and at least one endo (dude flipping head first over the handle bar). I had one fall, ha, ha, ha, medical treatment required on the spot (provided by the MTB master I was with). Able to finish np but full set of tetanus shots required.




> Bodybuilding.com has an online questionaire and then you also state your goals - and several different workouts / split come up.





> One serious forum (that's now very slow like most fora is) Bodybuilding #1 Destination at Muscular Development


Bodybuilding.com also sponsors a huge forum (27,000,000 members compared to teakdoor's 27,000) called bodyspace.com.




> I need to do 6 sessions a week any less than that and i feel I'm letting it slide. My lungs are like sun dried apricots so its important that they work to their maximum possible efficiency to make up for their small size and irregular shape. When I started cycling last year I couldn't manage five minute now I do 45 minutes so its progressing, albeit slowly. Im not getting as many lung infections since I started cycling either and thats a big benefit.


Jesus, no offense and I apologize if I've missed this but have you been seriously injured or have an illness? I know weight lifting helps with my osteoarthritis.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Regardless of age (I think a lot of posters here are middle-aged and older) most of us (I think) do some form of exercise.
> 
> At middle-age I am lifting and doing cardio on non-lift days 6 days per week. When I have a full day work schedule (they are very long) it's an off day.
> 
> For a year / 12 months I've been doing this type of weight lifting split, alternation the weight and reps, and using various exercises to change up.
> 
> On a particular day:
> 
> Back - Triceps
> ...


Believe it or not, your post is too generalized for me. Could you be more specific as to which muscle groups you lift on which particular day, (meaning day 1 through day 7), including days off? If you mix up your routine (I don't mean the exercises you do, I mean the muscle groups you combine together on a particular day) how often do you change the groupings and what groupings do you prefer? (I've read your reply to my post re: push-pull and legs being the introductory routine for me. thx.)

----------


## Sumbitch

> Used to be but not so much anymore. Trying to get back into it though.


That's the (fighting) spirit.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I started on weights in the late '60's, as a High School wrestler and lacrosse player. Later, in '69-'70, I turned back to the weight room to repair damage done in Vietnam.
> 
> I have lifted my entire adult life. I have a good gym in the house - stair-stepper, stationary bike, weight lifting multi-gym, free weights, heavy bag, etc.
> 
> I normally stretch for a while, then do about 20 minutes on the bike, then onto the multi-gym for 30 minutes or so, then free weights for 30 minutes, then back to the bike. I throw in some swimming when the weather is cooperating.
> 
> Having been a gym rat for decades was, according to my doc, a major factor in bringing me back quickly and fairly completely after a December 2011 stroke.
> 
> Have never used supplements of any kind.


Davis, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you ex-special forces?

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> 
> Regardless of age (I think a lot of posters here are middle-aged and older) most of us (I think) do some form of exercise.
> 
> At middle-age I am lifting and doing cardio on non-lift days 6 days per week. When I have a full day work schedule (they are very long) it's an off day.
> 
> For a year / 12 months I've been doing this type of weight lifting split, alternation the weight and reps, and using various exercises to change up.
> 
> ...


By muscle groups do you mean: shoulders - anterior delt set, lateral delt set, rear delt set?

The lift/exercise will identify the specific muscle targeted:

One example:

DB front rows - anterior (front delt).
DB lateral side raise - lateral (side delt).
Overhead y-rope pull (real delt).

Of course there are other exercises to hit all of these muscles and I vary them.

If you mean: what muscle groups worked together on the same day, I have changed that before and still occasionally do.

But mostly it's: 

Shoulders (only shoulders on a specific day) - sometimes Abs and obliques depending if I hit them every 5-6 days.

Back + Chest - same day - if - I'm doing an Arm only (Bi-Tri) day which sometimes includes forearms.

This has been working best for me. 

Otherwise I usually do Back + Tri and Chest + bi on the same day. 

Legs - it's own day, and I usually hit the abs and obliques with them. 


I've done "slow burn" which is heavy weight to maximum failure.  I little bit of Mentzer's style on the 4 second rep. 

I also vary the weight load in what's called: Power - Rep Range - Shock.

One week: heavy power

Second week: higher rep range (and lessor weight)

Third week: shock - finishing with super-sets to maximum failure.

Rinse and repeat. 

Note I am *NOT* into "buying" his stuff nor any stuff. He was on a forum for years explaining his workout. Now he's a personal trainier and selling things. Fair enough. That's what he does for a living. 




> *ERIC BROSER’S P/RR/S (POWER/REP RANGE/SHOCK) TRAINING SYSTEM*
>  Published on Tuesday, 13 May 2014 
> 
>  Written by Scott Fishkind ACE CPT/IMPACT Instructor-NESTA/YFS-IYCA
> 
> *Recently I’ve been using variations of a training system called Power, Rep Range, Shock (aka P/RR/S) which was created by natural bodybuilder, fitness model, author and trainer, Eric Broser.* Before going further I want to thank Eric for giving me permission to write about his excellent training system!
> 
> I have actually known about P/RR/S for several years via a variety of interviews and articles. However, more recently I decided to purchase Eric’s Power, Rep Range, Shock DVD so I could see the subtleties of his system in action. I then took the basic principles of P/RR/S and put together several different variations on the system, which I have been currently using with great success!
> 
> ...


Eric Broser?s P/RR/S (Power/Rep Range/Shock) Training System

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> I started on weights in the late '60's, as a High School wrestler and lacrosse player. Later, in '69-'70, I turned back to the weight room to repair damage done in Vietnam.
> 
> I have lifted my entire adult life. I have a good gym in the house - stair-stepper, stationary bike, weight lifting multi-gym, free weights, heavy bag, etc.
> 
> I normally stretch for a while, then do about 20 minutes on the bike, then onto the multi-gym for 30 minutes or so, then free weights for 30 minutes, then back to the bike. I throw in some swimming when the weather is cooperating.
> 
> Having been a gym rat for decades was, according to my doc, a major factor in bringing me back quickly and fairly completely after a December 2011 stroke.
> ...


101st Abn LRRP.

----------


## Black Heart

Davis,

just dropping 2 names of LRRPs by chance you've met them or heard of them.

James Walker - his nickname was "Limey."

Kenny Wayne Harris.

?

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^Nope. Depends very much on the year, unit, etc. Names don't ring though.

----------


## Black Heart

> ^Nope. Depends very much on the year, unit, etc. Names don't ring though.


OK. 

Both have passed away.

James Walker wrote a book called "Fortune Favors the Bold."

I can't recall the exact year or unit for them. Both were friends. Harris became a very good friend.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Walker was in the 101st, 1st Brigade LRRP - 66-67.

I was in 3rd Brigade LRRP - 68-69.

----------


## Stinky

> Jesus, no offense and I apologize if I've missed this but have you been seriously injured or have an illness? I know weight lifting helps with my osteoarthritis.


My Lungs packed up four years ago, shrunk down to the size of tennis balls and went rock hard. I was in hospital at the time in a contagious diseases ward which was a spot of luck. The hospital was great they pulled out all the stops to give me a chance of recovering, they even bought an artificial lung (NovaLung) at great expense because I wouldn't give up, the docs kept coming into work expecting me to have checked out in the night but I was still there hanging on. It's been a bit of a slog and I'll never get back to the kind of health I enjoyed before but this last year has been a turning point, I think being religious with my cardio workouts has played a big part in it.

----------


## Iceman123

^
Thanks for sharing, I hope you continue to improve.
Managing to ride for 45 mins would probably put you in the top 15% of the population.

----------


## Sumbitch

> If you mean: what muscle groups worked together on the same day, I have changed that before and still occasionally do.


I do.

OK, so you don't buy that dude's stuff. Do you buy _into_ his stuff? That large quote you gave of his includes 3-days/week of different lifting routines. Or are those your routines?




> 101st Abn LRRP.


That's not specific enough for most of the dumb fooks on this forum, Davis. Ladies, the answer is that Davis was a member of the 


> 101st Airborne Long-range reconnaissance patrols, or LRRPs (pronounced "Lurps"), that are small, heavily armed long-range reconnaissance teams that patrol deep in enemy-held territory.[1]


--from wiki.

Davis, Lurps can be United States Army Rangers, Long Range Surveillance teams, or Reconnaissance, Surveillance, and Target Acquisition squadrons, can they not? Please add to your rep.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Thanks for sharing, I hope you continue to improve.
> Managing to ride for 45 mins would probably put you in the top 15% of the population.


top 15%. That's not stinky, that's very good.

----------


## Stinky

> ^
> Thanks for sharing, I hope you continue to improve.
> Managing to ride for 45 mins would probably put you in the top 15% of the population.


Thx bud, It's very low level riding but thinking back on how imobile I was a year ago I'll take it as an improvement  :Smile:

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> If you mean: what muscle groups worked together on the same day, I have changed that before and still occasionally do.
> 
> 
> I do.
> 
> OK, so you don't buy that dude's stuff. Do you buy _into_ his stuff? That large quote you gave of his includes 3-days/week of different lifting routines. Or are those your routines?


No, not my routines. I should note (and apologize) that routine above is from a guy who tweaked Broser's Power-Rep Range-Shock routine.

I'll find better.

No, I don't buy his stuff. Do I buy into his stuff? I do NOT agree / follow / buy into _anyone's stuff._

There are many different routines, and the best is what YOU create and what works best for YOU.

That said, 10 years ago and every couple of years, I've done the Power-Rep Range-Shock, and it's a good workout program.

Workout programs ALWAYS should be changed.

I noted on this thread that I'm working my way into the 5 X 5 program to start fully in about 2 weeks. 




> 101st Abn LRRP.





> That's not specific enough for most of the dumb fooks on this forum, Davis. Ladies, the answer is that Davis was a member of the


 


> 101st Airborne Long-range reconnaissance patrols, or LRRPs (pronounced "Lurps"), that are small, heavily armed long-range reconnaissance teams that patrol deep in enemy-held territory.--from wiki.





> Davis, Lurps can be United States Army Rangers, Long Range Surveillance teams, or Reconnaissance, Surveillance, and Target Acquisition squadrons, can they not? Please add to your rep.


LRRPS, 

were sent into the bush / rural areas / jungle to actually collect Intel and find the enemy.

Usually a team of 6. No talking for days, just hand signals.

Obviously, Davis knows more detail.

----------


## somtamslap

Stinky, your story is humbling. Long may your recovery continue.

Try a turbo trainer (not as physically demanding as it sounds) when you're bored of the exercise bike.

----------


## Stinky

> Stinky, your story is humbling. Long may your recovery continue.
> 
> Try a turbo trainer (not as physically demanding as it sounds) when you're bored of the exercise bike.


I was lucky mate, lucky to be in hospital when it happened. Lucky to have the right consultant who had experience in what was needed to keep me alive. Lucky to have an administration prepared to spend so much money on the NovaLung and ancillary treatment to keep me alive, I was told after that the ITU had daily meetings thirty staff strong to discuss, learn and implement my treatment. I was especially Lucky that nurse Samantha had such a fine rack and pushed its soft warmth into my body every time she saw to me.
What is truly humbling is the guys n gals who treated me, their professionalism dedication and compassion is awe inspiring.

I've not heard of the Turbo Trainer but I'll have look, thx.

----------


## Black Heart

> Just finished. Wiped.....must be 99% humidity.


Me too.

Where I work out there are high ceiling fans, and it's at or near 40 Celsius.

The heart work hard to make the body sweat to cool the body down.

I take longer rests between sets. 

Taking electrolyte powder on heavy sweat days, and magnesium.

Probably drinking 5 liters throughout the day. I sweat sitting on the bike in traffic.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I noted on this thread that I'm working my way into the 5 X 5 program to start fully in about 2 weeks.


Way too hard for me.




> LRRPS, 
> 
> were sent into the bush / rural areas / jungle to actually collect Intel and find the enemy.
> 
> Usually a team of 6. No talking for days, just hand signals.
> 
> Obviously, Davis knows more detail.


OMG, too much detail for me.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I was lucky mate, lucky to be in hospital when it happened. Lucky to have the right consultant who had experience in what was needed to keep me alive. Lucky to have an administration prepared to spend so much money on the NovaLung and ancillary treatment to keep me alive, I was told after that the ITU had daily meetings thirty staff strong to discuss, learn and implement my treatment. I was especially Lucky that nurse Samantha had such a fine rack and pushed its soft warmth into my body every time she saw to me.
> What is truly humbling is the guys n gals who treated me, their professionalism dedication and compassion is awe inspiring.


Just feel like quoting this.

----------


## somtamslap

Played five a side football yesterday.

I do hope it isn't an accurate fitness barometer because I'm still fucked.

----------


## Stinky

> Played five a side football yesterday.
> 
> I do hope it isn't an accurate fitness barometer because I'm still fucked.


Five a side is fierce exercise if you're not used to it , all go and no rest that's why it's a much shorter game.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Played five a side football yesterday.
> 
> I do hope it isn't an accurate fitness barometer because I'm still fucked.


Athleticism is at the top of the fitness ladder. Coordination and skill in physically demanding sports may leave you feeling like shit but you should be proud nonetheless. Fitness _is_ required in football. Maybe you could be fitter. FFS, maybe you could be fitter and more photogenic as well ("kick it like Beckham"), then all you'd need is Victoria.

----------


## Black Heart

Here's a good short video on an arm routine by a buy in Texas. I've never heard of "Spider Curls" before.

Good music soundtrack on the vid.

He's tappin' the guns.

----------


## Perota

I've started this program around three month ago based on something I found on the internet. I showed it to a trainer at my gym and he said it was ok. Sorry some parts are in French but basically Day 1 is 3 x 15 reps at 60% of the max you can lift, same for Day 2. One day rest than Day 3 3 x 10 reps at 80% of your max.
30 s rest between reps and 1 mn rest between excercice.
I take the print out with me at the gym, I'm not very familiar with all this technical vocabulary so the pictures are very helpful.
I always start with 10 mn warm up on the stair master. At the end stretching and 3x20 on the captain chair.
Cardio is 4-5 times a week running 5 km around my village

----------


## Perota

Sorry the pictures are bigger than expected

Day 2 



and Day 3

----------


## Sumbitch

> I've started this program around three month ago based on something I found on the internet. I showed it to a trainer at my gym and he said it was ok. Sorry some parts are in French but basically Day 1 is 3 x 15 reps at 60% of the max you can lift, same for Day 2. One day rest than Day 3 3 x 10 reps at 80% of your max.
> 30 s rest between reps and 1 mn rest between excercice.
> I take the print out with me at the gym, I'm not very familiar with all this technical vocabulary so the pictures are very helpful.
> I always start with 10 mn warm up on the stair master. At the end stretching and 3x20 on the captain chair.
> Cardio is 4-5 times a week running 5 km around my village


I'm a little confused. your pictures are of only 3 workout routines. So do you only lift 3 days/wk? I don't think that's a bad thing but why does workout 2 follow the day after workout 1? I'm a firm believer in a full day's rest in between lifting days. I used to be a firm believer in lifting 6 days/wk. I haven't necessarily matured. Technology and sports medicine has  evolved pretty much since Arnold's days. Take a look at his routines (of course, he was into mass):  Day 1: chest, back and abs. Day 2: shoulders, arms & abs. Day 3: legs. Day 4: chest, back and abs. Day 5: shoulders, arms & abs. Day 6: legs. Day 7: rest day. That came from bodybuilding.com, a very good site, I think you said: http://www.bodybuilding.com/search/#...iner%20Day%201 

Also, how much time do you spend in the gym each day? 

I'd like to chat a little bit about nutrition. Are you (anybody), generally speaking, on a diet? What I mean by 'diet' is the 


> kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats.


 So not necessarily to lose weight. I try to live up to the following eating habits (allowing for 1 'cheat' day per week): *1.* high protein (so I'm a big fan of GNC whey protein shakes)  *2.* low carb: no potatoes, bread, rice, cakes, noodles, spaghetti, pizza, beer (again, I allow for one or two cheat days per week  ::chitown:: ). Anyway, there are lists available online that show which vegetables are highest in simple sugar (therefore, high carb) and which are lowest in sugar (therefore, low carb),  *3.* high fiber: All Bran cereal with soy milk. Again, there are lists available that differentiate between the low, medium and high fiber fruits & vegetables. And, yes it's true: there are low carb fruits and vegetables that are are also high in fiber.  * 4.* non-processed foods   *5.* no fat to low-fat. This is the most flexible category. In other words, if the item has benefits that can't be overlooked, I just might eat it, even if it's high fat. Right now I can't think of a single food like that i would or have eaten, since I've gotten serious about my diet. 

Share your diets.   :silvercup:

----------


## Perota

^
What I understood from the site I downloaded this routine is you have Day 1- Day 2 - Rest - Day 3 - Rest then back to Day 1. It's advertised as an "intermediate" routine, not beginner anymore but no gym buff either. 

I go to the gym 4-5 days a week and I was trying to find something to organize the hour I spend there. According to a trainer who work at the gym these routines are ok but I'm opened to suggestion if they can be improved.

Altogether it represents about an hour each time. With 30 seconds between reps and going straight from one exercice to the next and  including 10 mn warm up on the step master + stretching and abs after the weight lifting session, it's a busy hour.

----------


## Sumbitch

What kind of a site was it (maybe you could give me the URL)? It doesn't look like a bodybuilding routine. Look at day 1: 2 exercises apiece for the chest and back and 3 for the biceps. Day 2: one exercise (squats) primarily hits the quads, but also hits the glutes, hamstrings and calves (in other words, your butt and thighs), then shoulders and triceps, then quads, calves, glutes (butt) and hamstrings again. Then shoulder and triceps again. Day 3: exercise 1 (quads, calves, glutes and hamstrings), then chest and shoulders, then back (lats), quads, glutes, calves, hamstrings again! Then chest again, then lats again, lastly shoulders. This sounds like a muscle beach workout to attract the French chickies on the Riveriera. If you stick with it, it might be effective for what it's trying to do. Is that what you want or general health and symmetry over the long run? You know, the object of body building is to work every muscle in your body, not overwork. You hit the same muscles two, three, maybe even 4 times within 4 days. Looks like your heading towards burnout and over-training, if not a serious injury in a pretty short period of time. 

The first message I learned over and over again: don't exercise the same muscle/muscle group any more often than once every 3 days. You can gain lean muscle mass exercising one muscle/muscle group just once a week, if you exercise with the right intensity and volume. When you do exercise a particular muscle or muscle group do different exercises on that group. For shoulders and traps: shrugs, front and lateral raises, shoulder press. The routine you showed has u doing lat pull downs twice per day on 2 different days WTF? Would you mind telling me why this routine attracted you (as well as where it comes from)? No offense, but your object is long-term, right? That means staying as healthy as you can. So a big or maybe the biggest part of the problem will be motivation, which, truth be told, will mean, getting some results. 


> You need 72 hours to go through one metabolic cycle, which promotes healing of the tissue that was torn during your workouts. If youre training the same muscle group every day, your body wont have a chance to recover, slowing progress and leaving yourself open to injury.


 For your back, do pull ups, chin ups and there are all kinds of rows. as well as pull downs.

Nutrition is important but you've got to decide now what's going to keep you coming back to the gym. I know this guy, who is absolutely huge, and he said, dead serious, all he needs to do is 3 exercises: the dead lift, the bench press and squats!  :rofl:

----------


## Perota

^ No offence but you talk a lot of shit. I hoped you were living a bit closer so we could met at the gym and you could show me what you can do. 

The big advantage of this routine is it exists. I'm no gym buff and all those technical terms have no meaning for me. Here there are pictures that help identify the exercice, it's easy to follow. I don't know what they teach you at your retirement home but working at only 60% of your max capacity, it's difficult to hurt yourself if you do the exercice correctly. You really sound like my old neighbour who says I'm crazy for running around the village. He told my wife I will get an heart attack, walking is good enough for good health. You two would probably get along well ...

----------


## soibeer

I'm terribly lazy so limit my weight training to half an hour, 3 times a week + walking and occasional cycling. At 50, that is enough for me. I am probably slightly overweight, eat healthy most of the time and drink probably once a week. I hope I live to 80ish

----------


## Black Heart

I'm not a beginner anymore, so if I want to increase mass a little, I won't be able to do it hitting a single muscle group once per week (at least IME).

I've increased weights, changed rep ranges, tweaked the simple carb - protein PWO meals. 

I still view it as a health thing, and am not into "looks."  Seriously, if I was into looks I would not imbib as much as I do on beer.

I did a bad but necessary back-to-back routine yesterday and today. It's because of my work schedule.

Yesterday, June 15, 2015 Monday:

*Back - Chest:*

Chest:

Incline BP x 3 
Cable X-over x 4

Back:

Mid Row (machine) off of T-bar for 3 weeks for variation.
Bar-cable Push Down x 4 
Lat Pull Down (palms out) x 3


Today, June 16, I did Shoulders, which is bad to do right after or close to back-chest. Overlapping.

*Shoulders:*

One-arm DB overhead press x 1 (I hit my Anterior Delts yesterday on the incline BP and I felt pain while doing these, so I aborted them after 1 set.

DB Later side-raise X 4 (rep range ~12)
Upright Row (cable) X 4 (Don't use bar anymore b/c of an injury while doing it last year).
Y-rope overhead pull back X 4
Shrugs X 1 (30 reps) (aborted b/c of weird feeling in shoulder.

*Abs:*

Crunch Machine X 4 (~55 reps) at two different settings.
Oblique lateral side raise/lean X 2 with a heavy plate.


Tomorrow: legs.

----------


## dirk diggler

My first run for a long time, hopefully get this over 10k by Monday. I cut this run short today because 1. If I hadn't taken an abrupt left turn back towards civilisation it was going to turn into a 20k run, and 2. I was already breathing out of my arsehole.

----------


## Black Heart

Thanks for the info and map, Dirk. That makes it very interesting to see your route.


*Today, I did Legs:*

*Squat* X 3 (9 reps each, which was close to failure).

*Leg Extension* X 1  (Too much lactose, Quads fatiqued and burning).

*Calf Curl* (downward motion, machine) X 2 (heavy)

*Sitting Calf raises* X ~50 (very heavy)

*Standing Calf Raises* (machine) X ~85 (heaviest ever)


Post-Workout Meal: 2 pieces of grilled Chicken and 2 cups of white rice.

----------


## Perota

Fitness starts in the kitchen they say

----------


## Perota

Today instead of running 5 Km around the village, I'm going try this  new program :
- jump rope 1 mn
- high knees 1mn
- butt kick 1 mn
- Jumping jack : x10
- Burpee x 10
Run 2 km (10 mn)

- jump rope 1 mn
- high knees 1mn
- butt kick 1 mn
- Jumping jack : x10
- push up x 10
- Dip triceps x 10
Run 2 Km (10 mn)

- jump rope 1 mn
- high knees 1mn
- butt kick 1 mn
- Jumping jack : x10
- moutain climb 1mn
- Burpee 1 mn
Run 2 Km

Not so sure I can make it but there is no harm in trying.

----------


## Sumbitch

> ^ No offence but you talk a lot of shit. I hoped you were living a bit closer so we could met at the gym and you could show me what you can do. 
> 
> The big advantage of this routine is it exists. I'm no gym buff and all those technical terms have no meaning for me. Here there are pictures that help identify the exercice, it's easy to follow. I don't know what they teach you at your retirement home but working at only 60% of your max capacity, it's difficult to hurt yourself if you do the exercice correctly. You really sound like my old neighbour who says I'm crazy for running around the village. He told my wife I will get an heart attack, walking is good enough for good health. You two would probably get along well ...


OK, I agree with you....



> What I understood from the site I downloaded this routine is you have Day 1- Day 2 - Rest - Day 3 - Rest then back to Day 1. It's advertised as an "intermediate" routine, not beginner anymore but no gym buff either. 
> 
> I go to the gym 4-5 days a week and I was trying to find something to organize the hour I spend there. According to a trainer who work at the gym these routines are ok but I'm opened to suggestion if they can be improved.
> 
> Altogether it represents about an hour each time. With 30 seconds between reps and going straight from one exercice to the next and including 10 mn warm up on the step master + stretching and abs after the weight lifting session, it's a busy hour.

----------


## Sumbitch

> My first run for a long time, hopefully get this over 10k by Monday. I cut this run short today because 1. If I hadn't taken an abrupt left turn back towards civilisation it was going to turn into a 20k run, and 2. I was already breathing out of my arsehole.


No offence but what kind of technology recorded all that? Do you wear it on your wrist?

----------


## Sumbitch

> Today, I did Legs:
> 
> Squat X 3 (9 reps each, which was close to failure).
> 
> Leg Extension X 1 (Too much lactose, Quads fatiqued and burning).
> 
> Calf Curl (downward motion, machine) X 2 (heavy)
> 
> Sitting Calf raises X ~50 (very heavy)
> ...


*Good on you, mate.*

Today I did chest+shoulders:

(all exercises consisted of 4 sets and, except for push-ups and crunches, pyramided down: 15 reps at lowest weight, 12 with added weight, 10, adding more weight and 8 at highest weight. Goal: about 3 minutes between sets and 6 between exercises. Errr, didn't hit the time goal--stretched it out a bit--but completed 7 exercises)
1. lateral raise machine
2. flat bench machine
3. dumb bell inclines
4. dumb bell shrugs
5. timed push-ups: each set (4 total) consisted of 30 followed by 30 second rest, 25 followed by 25 second rest, 20 followed by 20 second rest, 15 followed by 15 second rest, 10.
6. 50 mat crunches that I alternated with each push-up set (4 X 50 total. I can't do that math let alone how many push-ups I did...just joking  :Smile: 
7. dumb bell front raises

Re-hydrated at home, including about a pint of Gatorade (for electrolytes). Had a post-workout GNC whey protein shake (123 calories) also. Haven't had a meal yet (boo). About to do that (salad with extra veggies and roast plaa).

----------


## Davis Knowlton

Just finished. Fucking humidity is a bitch. Weight was 180 when I started; 177 when I finished. Wringing water out of my shirt. Wife just got home from an hour of zumba. Weighed 111 going in; 108 coming out. And daughter just got home; made cut for varsity Tae Kwon Do.

----------


## Iceman123

> Originally Posted by dirk diggler
> 
> 
> My first run for a long time, hopefully get this over 10k by Monday. I cut this run short today because 1. If I hadn't taken an abrupt left turn back towards civilisation it was going to turn into a 20k run, and 2. I was already breathing out of my arsehole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No offence but what kind of technology recorded all that? Do you wear it on your wrist?


I use endomondo, free gives the same information and will even give lap times by the km. It is on my iPhone I just put it in my shorts pocket. It speaks my lap time and total time every km.

Dirk is obviously using a similar programme. 
I rate these apps highly - great for motivation and recording progress.

----------


## Sumbitch

^^ Zumba, huh? I like the sound of it....

----------


## Perota

> Today instead of running 5 Km around the village, I'm going try this  new program :
> - jump rope 1 mn
> - high knees 1mn
> - butt kick 1 mn
> - Jumping jack : x10
> - Burpee x 10
> Run 2 km (10 mn)
> 
> - jump rope 1 mn
> ...


The start was a total disaster. Almost fell two times jumping rope before giving up. No energy for the next exercice either. So I decided to go for my usual jogging instead. After one round I was in a much better mood so I started again and it went pretty well this time. Running first then doing the exercice obviously works better for me . Altogether it took about one hour so I guess it's going to be the alternative for the days I don't have time to go to the gym.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

> ^^ Zumba, huh? I like the sound of it....


An hour of that will flat kick your ass.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I use endomondo, free gives the same information and will even give lap times by the km. It is on my iPhone I just put it in my shorts pocket. It speaks my lap time and total time every km.
> 
> Dirk is obviously using a similar programme. 
> I rate these apps highly - great for motivation and recording progress.


Now all I need to do is buy a fuckin' smart phone. Oh, wait a minute. Would this app run on any smart phone? I know nuttin' about that tech having never had one. My current mobile cost less than 600 THB and doesn't even have a camera. Anyways, thinkin 'bout an iPhone 5s for 20k THB or so. Would that do?

pls dont remove me from the forum for posting drivel back.   :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

Check this out, Iceman:



from A Smartwatch App That Stands Alone |




> Android Wear fans, you asked and we listened. We are thrilled to introduce our very first standalone app for Android Wear!  Our standalone app for the Sony Smartwatch 3 lets you enjoy the benefits of Android Wear and Endomondo together at last.
> 
> Equipped with the app and your Smartwatch, you can leave your phone at home when you work out, so you can have a phone-free experience and free your endorphins like never before. All you need to do is to connect your phone with the Smartwatch and make sure you are using the Free version of Endomondo on your phone.

----------


## Iceman123

^
That is the best answer. I just cannot see myself ever wearing one of those smart watches. I will suffer the iPhone bouncing about in my shorts.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Here's a good short video on an arm routine by a buy in Texas. I've never heard of "Spider Curls" before.


Me neither. Got to try the Laying Down Triceps extension also. Did you see the bent bar with the two grips (inner and outer) that he used with the Preacher Curls? Inner for  the preachers and outer for stand-up curls (not shown). I like that bar. 

Arms & back on fri. (no way i can do just arm exercises like that dude. i'd have to be poppin' somthin'  :Smile: )

----------


## dirk diggler

> Originally Posted by wjblaney
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by dirk diggler
> ...


That's right, iphone in my pocket, which didn't help as it meant wearing non sporty shorts that were a bit of a nightmare, belt kept loosening. Only brought football style shorts with me this trip.

I have a few apps and I'm still trying to decide which I prefer. Today I was using Runtastic Pro. I also have Mountainbike Pro, Strava, MapMyFitness, Squats Pro and Six Pack. I shall use a different one tomorrow, MapMyFitness and see how I get on. 

You don't need an internet connection for these as they work of GPS but you may need to Pause your workout when finished then properly finish it when you have a connection if you want maps to load properly.

I also have a UP24 Wristband that works with a data collecting App, recording steps and sleep and so far I've synced it with MapMyFitness. Cost about 5k baht at BKK airport and battery lasts 2 weeks.

It's good to be 'friends' with your friends on these apps as it will give you motivation and a competitive streak.

If you don't want to do the smartphone thing then you can get a Garmin watch or equivalent fairly cheap and upload your exercises to your computer.

----------


## Black Heart

> Just finished. Fucking humidity is a bitch. Weight was 180 when I started; 177 when I finished. Wringing water out of my shirt. Wife just got home from an hour of zumba. Weighed 111 going in; 108 coming out. And daughter just got home; made cut for varsity Tae Kwon Do.


Electrolytes, before, during and after.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
> 
> 
> Just finished. Fucking humidity is a bitch. Weight was 180 when I started; 177 when I finished. Wringing water out of my shirt. Wife just got home from an hour of zumba. Weighed 111 going in; 108 coming out. And daughter just got home; made cut for varsity Tae Kwon Do.
> 
> 
> Electrolytes, before, during and after.


Air con for me...during. still get soaked thru after an hour on the treadmill. Great for the knees, though, innit? 

Say, davis: last time I was in California, step classes were the thing, I think. Only classes I've ever done were spin bikes. I've always wondered how long it would take to learn the moves.   :bananaman:

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^Depends on the person, I guess. My wife and about half the others appear to follow the instructor with no problem...others struggle. When the guy really picks up speed towards the end, it looks like Tina Turner's back-up dancers in "Rolling on the River". Put the extended version of that on your big screen TV and try to keep up.......not me.

----------


## Sumbitch

> ^Depends on the person, I guess. My wife and about half the others appear to follow the instructor with no problem...others struggle. When the guy really picks up speed towards the end, it looks like Tina Turner's back-up dancers in "Rolling on the River". Put the extended version of that on your big screen TV and try to keep up.......not me.


hmmm. Not me neither. I'll stick to running as long as I've got these bles-sed knees.  :Smile:

----------


## dirk diggler

I stuck to walking today, looking to map out a 10k and build up to that for a run. 13km later...



Although I can easily swing a left at 9km and head home, I was curious today to see the distance of the full loop.



I used Runtastic Pro App again.

Also my Jawbone UP24 which I put around my ankle so I don't miss steps whilst taking pics etc.


So far today, blue is my sleep and orange is steps.

My sleep goal is set at 7 hours and step goal is set at the average 7,000


Also here you can see my lunch break, where Runtastic App was paused


This was my sleep last night.

I'll start a picture thread after work.

----------


## Perota

Just in case you needed motivation to go to the gym and build some muscle, have a look at this good looking gorilla that drives Japanese women crazy.







_

----------


## Sumbitch

> Just in case you needed motivation to go to the gym and build some muscle, have a look at this good looking gorilla that drives Japanese women crazy.


Just in case you want to be a gorilla in your next life, don't forget they like to eat their own shit.

----------


## Stinky

:rofl:

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> Just in case you needed motivation to go to the gym and build some muscle, have a look at this good looking gorilla that drives Japanese women crazy.
> 
> 
> Just in case you want to be a gorilla in your next life, don't forget they like to eat their own shit.


No need to be a gorilla to eat shit. I won't dwelve on Mc Do nuggets and other delicacies but have you ever hear of Kopi Luwak ? And we can talk about lunatics who drink their own pee. Honestly, Gorilla, you can do worst. Imagine to wake up a dung beetle  :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

> Here's a good short video on an arm routine by a buy in Texas. I've never heard of "Spider Curls" before.
> 
> Good music soundtrack on the vid.
> 
> He's tappin' the guns.


Have tried those Laying Down Tri Extensions for two weeks now. (BTW, my workout days this week: Day 1. 10k treadmill run in an hour. Day 2. 10k treadmill run in an hour. Day 3. chest+shoulders. Day 4. 10k treadmill in an hour. Day 5. back+arms, 10k treadmill run in an hour. Day 6. 15k treadmill run in hour and a half.) My form felt very bad, whether from lack of experience, I do not know. That's usually enough for me to drop the exercise from my agenda. But for 2 days after, both weeks, my triceps were just wiped out. Amazing. I also do tri rope pulldowns and always have b/c they feel so right (form wise). I tried those spider curls but you can't sit on the bench (what I was expecting). So, straddling and standing felt very unnatural. Anyways, chin-ups, preacher curls and bent bar curls always trash my biceps. Was told by the resident big dude, if you can do 10-15 chin-ups, that's all you need.   :Smile:  I did 4 sets of 20 today, have always done them, even up to 4 x 25, but don't think they're quite enough for me. Prolly don't fully extend but always feel a real good pump just before lockout. Just shows you, we all are different. This guy is huge, not a lotta fat, no belly and he says deadlifts, bench presses and squats are all you need for the big muscles. I've never done deadlifts. I'm so afraid of straining my lower back, I'm sure I wouldn't try to max out, something I like to do with most exercises.

Anyway, my workouts this week only had two lifting days (for about 1.5 hours each). That's been par for the course lately. The only extra lifting day I'd like to fit in is legs but I do enough running I don't feel too guilty not fitting them into each week. It's just that I think squats are one of the very best overall exercises there is.  :Sadwavey:

----------


## Sumbitch

> And we can talk about lunatics who drink their own pee. Honestly, Gorilla, you can do worst.


I don't know, cat, seeing them do that just makes me want to puke. I don't feel superior, no way. We humans have been around less than .25 million years, what do we know? It's just I got sensibilities (can't stand needles, blood, etc.) ... :Yes(1):

----------


## Perota

^^ How can you run 1 1/2 hour on a treadmill ? I'm impressed, can't do more than 10 mn, too bored. I run around my village, 1.7 km one round, 3 rounds is 5km, 6 rounds 10 km ... Not so exciting either but no stray dogs.

----------


## Iceman123

How fast can you do the 10km's?

----------


## Sumbitch

> How can you run 1 1/2 hour on a treadmill ? I'm impressed, can't do more than 10 mn, too bored. I run around my village, 1.7 km one round, 3 rounds is 5km, 6 rounds 10 km ... Not so exciting either but no stray dogs.


Yeah, I'm rare breed: gym rat.




> How fast can you do the 10km's?


been doing them in an hour. Fastest time, mind you this is indoors (the treadmill motion helps with the pushoff. Outside I'm much slower for that reason alone, never mind the weather, surface, etc.) is 50 min. I've always wanted to see if I could get that down to 45 min. some day but am much happier with a longer run than a faster one. I'm more comfortable utilizing my slow twitch muscle fibers (used for endurance; long distance) than the fast twitch fibers (maximized by sprinters). My goal in the next month is to get up to 40 miles/week (6.2 miles = 10k) and that's only 10k more than I ran this week (55k). I've done that for weeks at a time in the past and when I get there, I'll keep it there for as long as possible. Won't try to exceed that. I don't want to lose lean muscle mass but want to lose body fat. That's the ultimate goal: < 15% body fat, better yet < 10%.

----------


## Neverna

^ Do one longer run once per week (try running slowly for an hour). That will improve your endurance and will help increase your potential for running faster for the same effort. Your leg muscles/heart/lungs will utilise oxygen more efficiently and you'll get more mitochondria in your leg muscles.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Do one longer run once per week (try running slowly for an hour). That will improve your endurance and will help increase your potential for running faster for the same effort. Your leg muscles/heart/lungs will utilise oxygen more efficiently and you'll get more mitochondria in your leg muscles.


No doubt about that but I'm sure I'll hit the wall the cat talks about....




> How can you run 1 1/2 hour on a treadmill ? I'm impressed, can't do more than 10 mn, too bored.

----------


## VocalNeal

> How fast can you do the 10km's?


My best was about 44 mins and change.

Couldn't do that now though  :smiley laughing:

----------


## Sumbitch

^ Damn tough runnin' that hard on a treadmill. If you hit that speed outside, you just might be able to recover from a trip (maybe not). Inside, watch out!

----------


## Black Heart

Just a refresher: And I was never a fan of Cutler.

----------


## Black Heart

Just starting squatting again after a year or less of Leg Presses.

This is the best Squat video I've seen:

----------


## Perota

A bit of-topic but not that much : Whey Protein.

It seems a lot of people are now crazy about Whey Protein. I checked what it is and was really surprised to learn that it is what we used to feed pigs with when I was a kid. 

First the definition. *Whey protein* is a mixture of globular proteins isolated from *whey*, the liquid material created as a by-product of cheese production. *Whey protein*  is commonly marketed and ingested as a dietary supplement, and various  health claims have been attributed to it in the _alternative medicine  community_.

When I was a kid during my summer holidays spent in the family farm I used to go every other day to the farmers' co-op to pick up full barrels of what we call "petit lait". That was what was left from milk after they have removed all the good stuff to make butter and cheese. The co-op was giving it away for free or just dumped it. We then used to mix it with flour and feed the pig with the mixture. Now they have found a way to market it , and quite expensive it looks like. The ingenuity of marketers will never cease to amaze me !

----------


## Black Heart

> A bit of-topic but not that much : Whey Protein.
> 
> It seems a lot of people are now crazy about Whey Protein. I checked what it is and was really surprised to learn that it is what we used to feed pigs with when I was a kid. 
> 
> First the definition. *Whey protein* is a mixture of globular proteins isolated from *whey*, the liquid material created as a by-product of cheese production. *Whey protein*  is commonly marketed and ingested as a dietary supplement, and various  health claims have been attributed to it in the _alternative medicine  community_.
> 
> When I was a kid during my summer holidays spent in the family farm I used to go every other day to the farmers' co-op to pick up full barrels of what we call "petit lait". That was what was left from milk after they have removed all the good stuff to make butter and cheese. The co-op was giving it away for free or just dumped it. We then used to mix it with flour and feed the pig with the mixture. Now they have found a way to market it , and quite expensive it looks like. The ingenuity of marketers will never cease to amaze me !


Good post. Cheers,

Whey does seems to work - but I've always preferred food.

I do have a bucket of Why from "On" brand.

I believe food is best. Always.  

My bucket takes over 2 months to empty and I only use this Whey protein (w/ glutamine and BCAAs) when I cannot do food. Average bucket take about 2 1/2 months for me to finish.

----------


## Black Heart

Lee Priest looking freaky.

I've always liked his style. 

This was in his "freak" stage, before the tatts.

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Iceman123
> 
> 
> How fast can you do the 10km's?
> 
> 
> My best was about 44 mins and change.
> 
> Couldn't do that now though


My best is thirty seven and a half minutes. I also couldn't do that now!

----------


## Sumbitch

> Good post. Cheers,
> 
> Whey does seems to work - but I've always preferred food.
> 
> I do have a bucket of Why from "On" brand.
> 
> I believe food is best. Always. 
> 
> My bucket takes over 2 months to empty and I only use this Whey protein (w/ glutamine and BCAAs) when I cannot do food. Average bucket take about 2 1/2 months for me to finish.


What, like, 1 or 2 shakes a day? That's about my avg. I like GNC's product and when drunk with just water is only 123 cal. But I add .5 cup of 0% fat yogurt b/c it is a mild laxative. But, absolutely, Black Heart, if you can get all your nutrients through food plus a multi-vitamin, that's the best whey (pun intended). It's hard to get the necessary protein every day from food alone without sacrificing the other important nutrients which includes, most importantly, fiber and I include "good" fats. Plus, I don't know about most people but I either have to starve myself (_not_ a good idea) or eat very, very lightly before a workout and a whey shake 90+ minutes before a workout is best for my digestion. And, after workout, I'm not in a good mood for a meal immediately so, again, a shake plus hydration works best for my digestion.




> My best is thirty seven and a half minutes. I also couldn't do that now!


Inside or out? I work out here in CM at the local air con gym and it takes me 55+ minutes on a treadmill these days to get to the 10k mark. For everybody, running is hard work on a regular basis over a long period of time. Either they lessen the workload or end up complaining about their knees. I don't blame anybody: it's damn difficult and uncomfortable. Anyway, I've decided to increase endurance rather than speed. In other words, I would consider a 15k run over an hour and a half a better workout than a 45 minute 10k. Still been quitting at the hour point, however... :Smile:

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> Good post. Cheers,
> 
> Whey does seems to work - but I've always preferred food.
> 
> I do have a bucket of Why from "On" brand.
> 
> I believe food is best. Always. 
> ...


No, I have about 2 cups per week.  I only use the whey (with oats usually added) when I have long work hours or it's a convenient snack.




> I like GNC's product and when drunk with just water is only 123 cal.


GNC is pricey. I do know (as we all do) that the supplement indu$try is a business. Good on you, however. 




> It's hard to get the necessary protein every day from food alone without sacrificing the other important nutrients which includes, most importantly, fiber and I include "good" fats.


I've always been skeptical of the 1 gram per pound rule.  Why is it conveniently put at 1 gram per pound and not .89 or 1.03?

Because its easy.

Of course, I'm just trying to get in shape and yes, I wan to look better, look fitter.

But if we are not athletes that are competing and are not BBers (that are or are not competing) then I don't think everyone needs the "1 gram of protein per pound rule."

When I up my protein intake I do add more LBM. 

But chasing protein is a lot of work (sometimes) and it can cost.

My current protein eating lifestyle is:

*3 whole eggs in the morning, scrambled (with a 1/4 to a 1/2 cupt of oats).

(If lifting that day, I add a 1/2 cup.)

*Grilled chicken

*In my local resaurants I order grilled chicken (with veggies) minus the rice.

I avoid canned Tuna b/c of the mercury issue. 




> Plus, I don't know about most people but I either have to starve myself (_not_ a good idea) or eat very, very lightly before a workout and a whey shake 90+ minutes before a workout is best for my digestion. And, after workout, I'm not in a good mood for a meal immediately so, again, a shake plus hydration works best for my digestion.


Yeah, it's best to eat light before most hard (or endurance workouts). 

I eat a medium sized meal 1 1/2 hours before, sometimes 1:45 minutes before.

A shake with oats and yoghurt, can be a "meal" basically.

----------


## Sumbitch

^ Yeah and you're also a humble guy. I can tell b/c nobody admits, let alone talks about, the "process" of getting in shape. Everyone who works out has to, I mean _has_ to, go through the process. So there are a lot of quitters. And, duh, everyone has to work out. Listen, I'm not defining what kind of exercise is necessary. For example, a lot of the most beautiful women I've seen are extremely flexible. Whereas men need strength exercises and I have seen extremely flexible and therefore fit men, especially here in LOS. I only mean that strength exercises make men handsome as well as fit. OK, strictly my opinion.

----------


## Black Heart

> ^ Yeah and you're also a humble guy. I can tell b/c nobody admits, let alone talks about, the "process" of getting in shape. Everyone who works out has to, I mean _has_ to, go through the process. So there are a lot of quitters. And, duh, everyone has to work out. Listen, I'm not defining what kind of exercise is necessary. For example, a lot of the most beautiful women I've seen are extremely flexible. Whereas men need strength exercises and I have seen extremely flexible and therefore fit men, especially here in LOS. I only mean that strength exercises make men handsome as well as fit. OK, strictly my opinion.


Yes, working out in any way is a process. 

A process that can take years. 

When it comes to lifting - with specific goals - not just "working out" - humility is very important, IMO.

Working out is now a part of my lifestyle. I may take a break in the future, or I may quit, but I hope I don't.

I'm middle-aged.

Strength, and heart health. 

I enjoy walking also, but the pollution where I live is bad. Even with a mask I think the nano-particles are getting through. 

Yes, it seems guy need strength, or more specifically, exercises where the muscles are utilized. I think women need it also (but less so. I don' study this topic).

The women in those Zumba dance classes are moving a lot and aerobics really works the muscles.

----------


## Sumbitch

^  :Smile: 

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> My best is thirty seven and a half minutes. I also couldn't do that now!
> 
> 
> Inside or out? I work out here in CM at the local air con gym and it takes me 55+ minutes on a treadmill these days to get to the 10k mark.


Outside, on the road. It was in a road race.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Outside, on the road. It was in a road race.


Excellent! I've never competed and don't have the desire to do so, except against myself. 

Does anybody think that good health through exercise and nutrition is a sufficient goal in and of itself or should be a byproduct of a higher goal (for example, to win a 10k)? That is, in order for it to be a lifelong pursuit.

----------


## Perota

> Does anybody think that good health through exercise and nutrition is a sufficient goal in and of itself or should be a byproduct of a higher goal (for example, to win a 10k)? That is, in order for it to be a lifelong pursuit.


Good question

"Mens sana in corpore sano" Healthy mind in a healthy body. Which means for your mental balance it is important to be physically healthy. That should be the ultimate goal.

----------


## Black Heart

I'm visiting the ol' homestead for a while, so I'm gymless. I just bought to heavey DBs.

I'll be doing calisthenic things like burpees and full Dumbbell workouts.




Very good exercises for chest from home w/ and w/out DBs.




Bi and Tri workout with DBs only by Lee Hayward:




Good shoulder routine w/ the juxtaposition of sets:




Leg day at home with DBs, no weight or with a backpack you fill with something(s):




Dumbbell Deadlifts for those who want to avoid the bar.

----------


## Stumpy

My observations. I have met quite a few that did the 'weight lifting get ripped" deal(I was one in that group for awhile in my mid 30's). One thing the majority never considered when they embarked on it at the time is the long term. Its kind of like Tattoos. Sounds like a good idea at the time but.... 

Unless you want it to consume your life it is just not sustainable. As soon as you stop it quickly becomes flab when older. As we age it is virtually impossible to recover from that down time. You are left chasing it with all sorts of supplements that in many cases have a huge negative impact on your body and to what end?

I am all for fitness and exercise. Its just needs to makes good sense based on ones age.

----------


## Perota

Here is a picture of the perfect man. Left seen by women, right by men. It's clear that women are attracted by a fit body. But if you think that "beefy" is the way to  go, you're obviously gay.





Perfect Body According to Men and Women Bluebella Lingerie Survey

----------


## Perota

Joking aside, if you really want to be healthy you need to practice a "real" sport : swimming, cycling, playing tennis, boxing ...  even golf ! The gym is good for the cardio if you don't have much time during the day for exercice, or you find the weather in Thailand too hot for outdoor activities. But lifting weight unless you want to develop specific muscles in addition to a regular activity is useless and definitively not a "health" activity.

----------


## toront500

Good thread guys, interesting to hear others take on keeping fit.  

I currently exercise for half an hour 5/6 times a week using dumbbells and bodyweight exercises, at this moment I do no cardio whatsoever.  I would like to start running again but cannot due to dodgy knees resulting from many years playing squash.  Therefore, I've decided to buy a recumbent exercise bike.  Does anyone else use this type of static bike, can you recommend a manufacturer and where to buy in Thailand.

----------


## Black Heart

> My observations. I have met quite a few that did the 'weight lifting get ripped" deal(I was one in that group for awhile in my mid 30's). One thing the majority never considered when they embarked on it at the time is the long term. Its kind of like Tattoos. Sounds like a good idea at the time but....


Yes, there are people like that.

But there are many people who do it as a lifestyle, trying to just get healthier as the age, fight against type 2 diabetes or other factors.

Yes, it is for the long term. 




> Unless you want it to consume your life it is just not sustainable.


"Consume" is a good word. I work a lot but I do have more free time. That said, my commute to my gym is about 18-20 minutes each way + workout of 40-45 minutes + post-workout meal, + then commute home. That adds up. 




> As soon as you stop it quickly becomes flab when older. As we age it is virtually impossible to recover from that down time.


It harder, but possible to recover from downturn. Muscle memory, and the heart and lungs and circulation.

Nobody (here) is trying to be a decathalon athlete, competitive bodybuilder, or model.




> You are left chasing it with all sorts of supplements that in many cases have a huge negative impact on your body and to what end?


I do't believe in supplements.

1. Supplements are an indu$try.

2. People using them must workout very hard in a regimented way and have a very clean diet in order to _possibley_ get some results or benefilts. 

I believe in food. 

I do believe that BCAAs help in recovery in middle age, but I will not pay the high price for them. 




> I am all for fitness and exercise. Its just needs to makes good sense based on ones age.


Me too.  :sheep2:

----------


## Stumpy

I am totally with you Blackheart. I am now on with cycling, walking, push ups, sit ups etc. I have a small personal weight system at home(which is coming with me to TL) and I do low weight and more reps every couple of days to remain agile and limber. The most important thing to me is simply staying active, eating reasonably right, have a good time, live life. I have found with a happy balanced lifestyle you just remain healthier overall. Not all of health is physical, it is mental state as well.

I respect the guys that persevere and do it but I know many where it is now virtually an obsession as they cannot go anywhere because they do not want to miss a workout, can't go anywhere without a supplement. A few will not go out and let it fly as they worry about having a drink or eating a slice of pizza. A regimented workout schedule coupled with supplements will not be part of my plan. 

In the end you and I both know everybody is different. What works for one does not work for the other. Some absolutely require structure and hard core discipline. 

I say whatever works to keep one mentally and physically fit is a good plan.  :Smile:

----------


## Black Heart

> I am totally with you Blackheart. I am now on with cycling, walking, push ups, sit ups etc. I have a small personal weight system at home(which is coming with me to TL)


I've been doing at home body weight workouts (in addition to Dumbbell only) b/c I'm visiting the US and these workouts work very well. I'm learning a lot. 

I'll post some home body weight workouts soon.

And in particular:

_Convict Conditioning_ or aka _Convict Calisthenics_

Old school conditioning that works, and is lessor known today because of the recent more to weights, the fitness industry, and body-building in the last few decades. 





> and I do low weight and more reps every couple of days to remain agile and limber. The most important thing to me is simply staying active, eating reasonably right, have a good time, live life. I have found with a happy balanced lifestyle you just remain healthier overall. Not all of health is physical, it is mental state as well.


Yes, agree on all points, especially the mental aspect being related and important. 




> I respect the guys that persevere and do it but I know many where it is now virtually an obsession as they cannot go anywhere because they do not want to miss a workout, can't go anywhere without a supplement. A few will not go out and let it fly as they worry about having a drink or eating a slice of pizza. A regimented workout schedule coupled with supplements will not be part of my plan.


These people you mention are screwed up.

If they have a contest to compete in and to prep for soon, OK. If not? Then they are way over-board. It's an obsession, perhaps vanity, and is as bad as spending too much time gambling, drinking, or being online. 





> In the end you and I both know everybody is different. What works for one does not work for the other. Some absolutely require structure and hard core discipline.


Yeah, we see it the same way. 




> I say whatever works to keep one mentally and physically fit is a good plan.


Cheers.

----------


## Black Heart

Mike Change is good on his workouts. He's calling this a "back workout" but to me that's only 2 exercises: the _CB High Bent-Row_ and the _DB One-Armed Row_

The others are shoulder (Delts and traps).

Nevertheless, good vid:

----------


## Scottish Gary

One of the best exercises you can do is hill sprints.   Quickly builds power and burns fat. 
  A lot of boxers and mma guys swear by them

----------


## AntRobertson

> But lifting weight unless you want to develop specific muscles in addition to a regular activity is useless and definitively not a "health" activity.


Couldn't agree less with that to be honest.

There's nothing wrong with weight lifting. In fact when done correctly it burns more calories than cardio does. It's definitely a "health" activity.

----------


## kmart

^Exactly. Free weights targeting the large leg; chest; and back muscles are the best most efficient fat-burning exercises you can do. Also building major core strength and stamina. Athletes in any sport use weights to supplement their normal training.

It's just the freaky steroid-using 'lifters that give weights / weight-training a bad rep in some people's eyes.

----------


## Perota

> One of the best exercises you can do is hill sprints.   Quickly builds power and burns fat. 
>   A lot of boxers and mma guys swear by them


Agree with that




> .
> 
> There's nothing wrong with weight lifting.


Agree, but ...




> Athletes in any sport use weights to supplement their normal training.


The operative word is "supplement".

If you just do weight lifting, you build big slow muscles that are not very useful. Just compare the morphology of athletes and body builders, you will understand what I mean. Have you ever seen any real athlete looking like that ?

----------


## Neverna

> If you just do weight lifting, you build big slow muscles that are not very useful.


A very simplistic and inaccurate statement - in my humble opinion. But I suppose it depends on your own definition of "weight lifting".

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> 
> If you just do weight lifting, you build big slow muscles that are not very useful.
> 
> 
> A very simplistic and inaccurate statement - in my humble opinion. But I suppose it depends on your own definition of "weight lifting".


Weight lifting :  the sport or activity of lifting barbells or other heavy weights.

But you're most welcome to offer your own definition.

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Perota
> ...


Lifting weights/weight training doesn't have to involve lifting very heavy weights and it doesn't necessarily result in "slow" muscles. You can use weights to improve muscle endurance, muscle power or muscle strength and you can weight train to gain small toned muscles, medium sized (quick) power producing muscles or large strong muscles. It depends on how you train. I have trained with weights and I do not look anything like those men in your photo. I only know one man who does and he admitted to taking steroids.

Do you remember Sebastian Coe? He did a lot of weight training, Do you think his leg muscles were "slow"? Not at all!

----------


## Perota

[quote=Neverna;3108098][quote=Perota;3108093]


> Lifting weights/weight training doesn't have to involve lifting very heavy weights and it doesn't necessarily result in "slow" muscles. You can use weights to improve muscle endurance, muscle power or muscle strength and you can weight train to gain small toned muscles, medium sized (quick) power producing muscles or large strong muscles. It depends on how you train. I have trained with weights and I do not look anything like those men in your photo. I only know one man who does and he admitted to taking steroids.
> 
> Do you remember Sebastian Coe? He did a lot of weight training, Do you think his leg muscles were "slow"? Not at all!


Agree, it depends on how you train. A visit to the gym should ideally includes cardio and stretching on top of weight lifting plus a number of other exercices depending of your age, physical condition and motivations Yes, Sebastian Coe may have done a lot of weight training but ON TOP of his normal training.  

But in reality what happens ? People focus on lifting heavy weights when it should only be a small part of their daily routine. We can't call that healthy.

----------


## Neverna

> Yes, Sebastian Coe may have done a lot of weight training but ON TOP of his normal training.


It was a core part of his training. 




> But in reality what happens ? People focus on lifting heavy weights when it should only be a small part of their daily routine.


Why shouldn't it be a big part of their daily routine? 




> We can't call that healthy.


Why not?

----------


## AntRobertson

Slightly off topic but those dudes in the pic are doing approx. small truckloads of PEDs etc.

However put your average joe off the street on the same pharmaceutical and training regime and he still wouldn't achieve anywhere near the same results: genetics is still the most determinate factor and those guys are genetic freaks... And just plain freaks for that matter.

----------


## kmart

[quote=Perota;3108112][quote=Neverna;3108098]


> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> 
> Lifting weights/weight training doesn't have to involve lifting very heavy weights and it doesn't necessarily result in "slow" muscles. You can use weights to improve muscle endurance, muscle power or muscle strength and you can weight train to gain small toned muscles, medium sized (quick) power producing muscles or large strong muscles. It depends on how you train. I have trained with weights and I do not look anything like those men in your photo. I only know one man who does and he admitted to taking steroids.
> 
> Do you remember Sebastian Coe? He did a lot of weight training, Do you think his leg muscles were "slow"? Not at all!
> 
> 
> ...


That would be hardcore "bodybuilding". As per the photos above. Narcissistic activity involving lots of steroids, unhealthy eating / dieting habits and spending too much time in sweaty gyms with similarly-afflicted obsessives. 
Weight-training is as diverse and as healthy as you want it to be.

----------


## AntRobertson

> That would be hardcore "bodybuilding". As per the photos above. Narcissistic activity involving lots of steroids, unhealthy eating / dieting habits and spending too much time in sweaty gyms with similarly-afflicted obsessives. 
> Weight-training is as diverse and as healthy as you want it to be.


Hello nail, meet hammer.

----------


## Perota

What the point to have muscles if nobody can see them because they are covered in fat ?





Above is how you look like according to your percentage of body fat. Unfortunately for all the gym buff, the most efficient way to lose fat is a good diet.


_

----------


## Perota

The *American Council on Exercise* (ACE) has put out the chart below. For information purpose only. It's always better to check with your doctor before starting a diet or exercice program.



Note that "average" actually means overweight.


Fortunately for our pensioners when you age you're allowed a few extra pounds of fat

----------


## VocalNeal

Hey Perota,

We're going to the Hash again today!

----------


## AntRobertson

^^The problem with all those charts/graphs/pictures etc. is that they're too generalized. Everybody's different and every body is different.

All those one-size-fits all dietary/health/exercise/weight rules are a bit of a bugbear of mine: all that 'don't eat carbs after Y o'clock' or 'you should eat Z amount of vegetables per day' type stuff. Most of it's general common sense stuff but that's the problem: it's too general. 

And don't even get me started on those bullshit fad diets like paleo etc!  :Very Happy: 

I'm an expert and world authority on nutrition and exercise... When it comes to _my body_. Anyone else, largely no idea.

----------


## Black Heart

> Good thread guys, interesting to hear others take on keeping fit.  
> 
> I currently exercise for half an hour 5/6 times a week using dumbbells and bodyweight exercises, at this moment I do no cardio whatsoever.  I would like to start running again but cannot due to dodgy knees resulting from many years playing squash.  Therefore, I've decided to buy a recumbent exercise bike. * Does anyone else use this type of static bike, can you recommend a manufacturer and where to buy in Thailand.*


I often use a stationary exercise bike because I don't want the high impact on my knees and ankles with running / jogging (or jumping rope).

You can do moderate cardio, upper, or HIIT on a bike (of course).

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Scottish Gary
> 
> 
> One of the best exercises you can do is hill sprints.   Quickly builds power and burns fat. 
>   A lot of boxers and mma guys swear by them
> 
> 
> Agree with that
> 
> ...


Liftng weights is NOT the same as Bodybuilding.

These guys look awful - look at their distended bellies. That is most likely from Growth Hormones. 

Today's bodybuilders look grotesque. It started (IMO) with Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman.

If you look at the old bodybuilders, from Arnold, to Frank Zane to Sergio that had narrow waists and great physiques.

Also,

AntR and Kmart are correct: lifting weight is a healthy activity and studies show lifting weights does burn fat. 

Again, Bodybuilding is a competitive sport at the IFB level that these guys in the pics are in. 

Jay Cutler is on the left (looking like a cartoon character and awful as usual) and next to him is Ronnie Coleman. Cutler won Mr. O three times (and the voting is rigged) and Coleman won it 4 times, I think. 

Ugly.

----------


## Black Heart

Old School:

Sergio: 




Frank Zane:




Arnold:


Notice how narrow the waist is:


New school monster freaks and cartoon characters.

Ronnie Coleman - notice the gut. HGH and lots of other cocktails.





Jay Cutler - how could he ever have won Mr. Olympia?

----------


## somtamslap

^Fucking orrible.

Cycling season is officially over for me - bar the occasional short weekend ride.

I have in turn started focussing on running, which I'm incredibly shite at. 

I might focus on the fucking telly instead.

Oh, and what's this? A large bottle of Kronenberg - 4 of them. And a kebab. Let battle commence.

 :Yup:

----------


## Neverna

> Cycling season is officially over for me - bar the occasional short weekend ride.
> 
> I have in turn started focussing on running, which I'm incredibly shite at.


The more you do, the better you'll get. The better you get, the more you'll like it. 


 :Smile: 




* Conditions apply. Subject to you not being a hug fat bastard, an alcoholic or a pie-a-holic, and on condition you do not try to run with broken legs, run bare feet over glass and/or run in for ever and a day for no reason other than it seeme like a good idea at the time. (Forrest Gump is exempt from these terms and conditions).

----------


## Black Heart

Deads, anyone?

----------


## somtamslap

> The more you do, the better you'll get. The better you get, the more you'll like it.


 A slow 8k today, I'm never going to be fast. I'm more inclined to plod with occasional intervals. Running (jogging) transpires to be quite satisfying and of course much safer than cycling in the darker months - and in general really. Might fuck the bike totally off.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Liftng weights is NOT the same as Bodybuilding.





> AntR and Kmart are correct: lifting weight is a healthy activity and studies show lifting weights does burn fat.


Plus, lifting weights strengthens bones.

----------


## kmart

^Yep and supporting tendons around major joints too.

----------


## Sumbitch

An update on my weekly routine. Right now, the plan is to lift every other day and run on the days in between. I'm a firm believer in heavy strength/resistance training and just as heavy cardio workouts. for example, the day before yesterday ran an hour and a half (15k) on the treadmill and yesterday lifted for my back and arms for an hour and half: 4 exercises targeting the back plus 2 exercises each for bis and tris. (I have a great gym here in CM and can do 8 completely different exercises from one workout to the next). Tomorrow more lifting and will either repeat chest and shoulders (also worked these groups on Tue.) or legs. I know, from a performance perspective, as long as I run hard, I can come back from long weight lifting absences and notice no slack off in performance during my leg lifting exerises. So, I figure most of the muscles developed running are the same I hit during my leg lifting sessions. But i also believe weight resistance training strengthens bones as well as building muscle and when I come away sore for a day or three, I know there's improvement necessary from a weight lifting perspective. So I "never" go more than a month or so completely skipping legs day.

Yesterday

For back:
Seated Rows: 4 sets pyramiding up in weight and down in reps


Pull downs: of the behind the neck variety. This is _NOT_ recommended (as opposed to the form illustrated below) but I personally feel a great stretch and pump in my trapezius, rhomboid and deltoid muscles and my rule of thumb is: any time I can actually feel the stretch/pump in a back muscle, I stick with the exercise. Again, 4 pyramiding sets.


T-bar rows: 4 pryramiding sets


Pull down rows (don't like the opposite grip in the picture and my machine is much better. I alternate arms during the set or don't. It's my favorite back machine and I always get a fantastic stretch):


Arms:

rope pull downs (tris)


preacher curls (I use the bent bar as pictured and the inside grip)


standing barbell curls using the bent bar and outside grip as pictured


I don't know what they call this machine for tries but I complete one set for each arm separately during the set and can feel a real good stretch, if I concentrate and don't cheat.

----------


## AntRobertson

I've just switched back to my body-part-per-day bro split from a Push-Pull-Legs routine. I'm focking sore!  :Very Happy:

----------


## Sumbitch

> I've just switched back to my body-part-per-day bro split from a Push-Pull-Legs routine. I'm focking sore!


Very curious about a sampling of which exercises you used to choose on your pull day. I was on that 3 day routine for centuries: Mon-Thu, push; Tue-Fri, pull; Wed-Sat, legs. Mind sharing? Just the exercise names on your pull day would suffice.  :Very Happy:

----------


## AntRobertson

Yeah sure:

PULL UPS		
DEAD LIFT		
B.BELL BENT OVER ROWS		
D.BELL ONE ARM ROW		
BARBELL CURL		
DUMBBELL CURL		
D.BELL REAR DELT. RAISE	

All for four sets except D.Bell rows.	

And mine is actually little uneven/variation though, five day routine: Legs(Mon); Push; Pull; Push; Pull; back to Legs the following Mon.

----------


## Sumbitch

> And mine is actually little uneven/variation though, five day routine: Legs(Mon); Push; Pull; Push; Pull; back to Legs the following Mon.


Interesting. I love to hear all this shit. Yeah, once a week for legs, eh? Makes excellent sense. 

As I said, I used to lift every day and I thought as long as I worked out the same muscle group no more often than every 24 hours and _preferably_ every 48, my body would have recovered. Now, I've been a weight lifting enthusiast (not a bodybuilder) since '92 and didn't notice this phenomenon until 6 months or so ago when I returned from a 3 week trek in the Himalayas. Obviously, I lost a lot of body mass and felt very sore the first day back in the gym in the muscles I had hit that day (push). But I have felt sore before and, likesay, there was never any problem working a different muscle group the following day. But I had never lost so much mass before. So 6 months ago, on my second day back in the gym (one day after my first day back), I couldn't lift a single thing! My first reaction was, OMG, I'm in for a prolonged rest. But I came back the next day for the fuck of it and, lo and behold, I had zero, zip, nada problems completing my push workout. So I started skipping a day in between lifting weights and, within no time, I recovered enough strength to be able to return to my old routine. But then it hit me. Why the fuck should I do that? It's obvious my whole body needed to recover for 48 hours after that first serious workout. So, just because I _can_ lift every day, does it make sense that I do? _Hell no_! So, nowadays, I work out each body part only once a week. And I think I'm getting off a plateau I had been on for years. for example, I've just returned (Oct 1) from another 3 week trek, with another notable loss of weight, and I'm already back to my pre-trek strength and not as big yet either. Of course, I don't believe 3 days a week is enough exercise so it's a good thing I like to run, which I used to do following weight lifting. Now I can devote every day to a single form of exercise: cardio or weight lifting. This is huge mental relief as well.

So do you think that over-training could be masked by your experience, Dr. Ant? Subconsciously, at least, you agree in principle or you would be damn worried why you only work legs once a week. Am I right?




> D.BELL REAR DELT. RAISE


Oh, that's a fav of mine. A lot of Thais, mostly, will do it standing straight up and look at me strangely while I do it more like this (I visualize my internal ape and simultaneously pump/grimace my sternocleidomastoid - neck muscle  :Smile: :


I saw this incline version yesterday and am itching to try it:






> B.BELL BENT OVER ROWS


I much prefer this version:



As opposed to this:



What's yours?




> DEAD LIFT


I was told by a HUGE and pretty well defined bodybuilder once, you only need to do three exercises _evahhh_: squats, dead lifts and bench presses  :rofl:  He was dead serious. Of course, he doesn't practice what he preaches. Still, obviously a damn good exercise for the back. 




> D.BELL ONE ARM ROW


Haven't tried this one yet and will definitely do so.




> PULL UPS


excellent and difficult. always do it first when I get up the courage to include it in my workout.




> BARBELL CURL





> DUMBBELL CURL


I'm familiar with both bicep exercises.

So the reason I wanted these particular details of your workout is to confirm a hypothesis I have: a push and pull routine emphasizes back and bis only and, secondarily, of course, the opposing muscles (e.g., tris are hit when you do curls). Just note (no offense), your pull routine doesn't include rope pulldowns. 

Now, that's as much of a pull exercise as any of the others on your list. However, it hits tris primarily so I'm sure you include it or dips or close grip barbell bench presses, etc. to hit tris on your push day. 

My point is really simple. You can more efficiently hit every upper body muscle by breaking your routine into chest-shoulder and back-arm days. You'll note also that there is no overlap of muscle work (except supplementary, of course)

----------


## ChiangMai noon

sausages.

----------


## chassamui

Don't hold with exercising individual groups on a single day. Unless you are young and flexible or a pro lifter/athlete/
As an amateur or older individual i would recommend exercising 3 groups at a time at a lower level, to prevent injury.
Arm and shoulder
Trunk/abdomen
Legs
It involves fewer stresses, more variety and is a more holistic approach in general.

----------


## AntRobertson

> So do you think that over-training could be masked by your experience, Dr. Ant? Subconsciously, at least, you agree in principle or you would be damn worried why you only work legs once a week. Am I right?


Honestly - and without deliberately trying to be vague - I'm a bit on the fence when it comes to the issue of over-training. I do believe that such a thing exists but in my experience the levels you have to push yourself to get there are so ridiculous as to be unsustainable/not feasible so you'll never reach it... If that makes any sense??

Using my once-per-week Leg Day as the example - I could maybe get away with x2, maybe even x3, per week but to me it's an issue of proportionality. Your legs are basically half of your body alone (slightly more actually) so deserve their own workout/focus but if you go hard and heavy enough with compounds like squats on the one day that's enough and allows plenty of recovery time. I alternate roughly every three months or so between PPL and a five-day bodypart/bro-split, but even for the latter I have a dedicated legs day. Which, incidentally, I fucking hate!  :Very Happy: 

Now that I'm no longer a spring-chicken the issue for me is joint health more than over-training issues or anything like that regardless. I can lift a whole lot heavier than my joints can now stand so I just try to be sensible around that. It's not as though I'm trying to build mass or anything anyway: quite happy where I am, I'm 41yrs old and have abs which puts me ahead of most other beer-swilling fat-fockers my age.

I think a bit of the issue comes from people trying to follow those muscle mag type workout routines: 'Gain 40lbs Mass in 2.5 Days By Following Mr. Olympias Workout Rotuine!'. Yeah, ain't gonna happen unless you happen to share his freakish genetics and pharmacologist. So you get these guys out there, mostly young and inexperienced, thinking that they need to train heavy x2 per day which is just nonsense and only going to cause them harm.



> I saw this incline version yesterday and am itching to try it


I alternate that with standing.



> So the reason I wanted these particular details of your workout is to confirm a hypothesis I have: a push and pull routine emphasizes back and bis only and, secondarily, of course, the opposing muscles (e.g., tris are hit when you do curls). Just note (no offense), your pull routine doesn't include rope pulldowns.


I like to keep my workouts pretty simple: always start with the most 'difficult'/taxing compound movement (e.g. pull-ups, bench, squats etc.) and take it from there.

It's also an issue of practicality for me also though. I built my own gym at work and it's a pretty simple set-up: dumb/bar-bells, assorted free weights, couple of benches, squat rack...) so I tailor things to that.

The rope-pulldowns is actually a good example. I do have one of those multi-gym/station things in there that I could conceivably do pull-downs on but, frankly, I just don't trust the thing - it's one of those cheap and tatty looking things - so instead I do things like dips/skull-crushers etc. etc.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Don't hold with exercising individual groups on a single day. Unless you are young and flexible or a pro lifter/athlete/
> As an amateur or older individual i would recommend exercising 3 groups at a time at a lower level, to prevent injury.
> Arm and shoulder
> Trunk/abdomen
> Legs
> It involves fewer stresses, more variety and is a more holistic approach in general.


Sounds interesting. What would the other lifting days look like in a week? Would you recommend any other fitness activities in particular?

I believe in the 3 legged stool approach to exercise: endurance, flexibility, strength. Concentrating on lifting alone can take too much energy to properly focus on either of the other legs of the stool. However, if you have the body and mind for it (I don't really think age matters), yoga, in and of itself, is prolly all you need, from an exercise perspective. My body type and natural inclination keeps my focus on endurance and strength. Mind you, I believe in a bodybuilder's diet: low carb, high protein, high fiber, healthy fats. I'm trying to cut out alcohol almost completely (exceptions being the odd family celebration or get-together with friends). Was drinking beer habitually once a week until a couple of months ago. So nutrition/diet counts big (70%-80%) in overall health, IMNSFHO. (OK, maybe 50%-60%. Still learning after all these years!)




> I've just switched back to my body-part-per-day bro split from a Push-Pull-Legs routine.


I'm sure you mean one body group per day, right? I've never heard about "bro splits". Whatever are they? And you said you cycle routines every 6 months? Yeah, I really think out of the box when it comes to cycling. I work in trekking and climbing every 6 months as part of my cycling. And come back into the gym not doing anything sport specific at all, except endurance training. But I'm still learning about splits, after 25 years or so. The main thing is "DON'T QUIT".

----------


## Sumbitch

> I have a dedicated legs day. Which, incidentally, I fucking hate!


Doesn't everybody? Seriously, though, squats are a really good exercise but can create issues for your knee joints and lower back, if not done properly. I take a very wide stance and point the knees outward, focusing on the buttocks and not the quads. 




> Now that I'm no longer a spring-chicken the issue for me is joint health more than over-training issues or anything like that regardless.


I have osteoarthritis which requires daily OTC pain medication but hampers running and lifting not a bit. So I believe lifting and running are actually good for the disease. However, they could be one of the culprits as well!

----------


## chassamui

I walk, swim and cycle. All fairly low impact due to osteo arthritis. Gym work in moderation is ok, but if you build too much muscle it will bite you harder when you eventually have to stop. Lithe and flexible rather than bulky.

I need to carry out a series of stretching and dynamic tension exercises first thing every day, just to shake of the limitations in the joints after a good nights sleep.
I eat, drink and smoke as much and as often as I like. The exercise is just a means to be able to enjoy life and continue having the choice of those worthwhile evils.
Call it reward based training.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I walk, swim and cycle. All fairly low impact due to osteo arthritis. Gym work in moderation is ok, but if you build too much muscle it will bite you harder when you eventually have to stop. Lithe and flexible rather than bulky.
> 
> I need to carry out a series of stretching and dynamic tension exercises first thing every day, just to shake of the limitations in the joints after a good nights sleep.
> I eat, drink and smoke as much and as often as I like. The exercise is just a means to be able to enjoy life and continue having the choice of those worthwhile evils.
> Call it reward based training.


Thanks for the honest revelations (I think I can detect authenticity when I see it). It makes for pleasant reading.

Just one point: you honestly don't have to stop weight training. An example from America was Jack LaLanne. From wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_LaLanne):




> Francois Henri "Jack" LaLanne (September 26, 1914  January 23, 2011) was an American fitness, exercise, and nutritional expert and motivational speaker who is sometimes called "the godfather of fitness" and the "first fitness superhero."[1] 
> 
> Decades before health and fitness began being promoted by celebrities like Jane Fonda and Richard Simmons, LaLanne was already widely recognized for publicly preaching the health benefits of regular exercise and a good diet. He published numerous books on fitness and hosted the fitness television program The Jack LaLanne Show between 1953 and 1985. As early as 1936, at age 21, he opened one of the nation's first[3] fitness gyms in Oakland, California, which became a prototype for dozens of similar gyms using his name.[4] One of his 1950s television exercise programs was aimed toward women, whom he also encouraged to join his health clubs.[3][5] He invented a number of exercise machines, including leg-extension and pulley devices. Besides producing his own series of videos, he coached the elderly and disabled to not forgo exercise, believing it would enable them to enhance their strength.[3][5]
> 
> LaLanne also gained recognition for his success as a bodybuilder, as well as for his prodigious feats of strength. Arnold Schwarzenegger once exclaimed "That Jack LaLanne's an animal!" after a 54-year-old LaLanne beat then 21-year-old Schwarzenegger badly in an informal contest.[1]
> 
> When exercising, he worked out repetitively with weights until he experienced "muscle fatigue" in whatever muscle groups he was exercising, or when it became impossible for him to go on with a particular routine. "Training to failure" is now commonplace. LaLanne moved from exercise to exercise without stopping. To contradict critics who thought this would leave him tightly musclebound and uncoordinated, LaLanne liked to demonstrate one-handed balancing. His home contained two gyms and a pool which he used daily.[5] He also dismissed warmups, calling them "shtick" and "something else to sell": "15 minutes to warm up? Does a lion warm up when he's hungry? 'Uh oh, here comes an antelope. Better warm up.' No! He just goes out there and eats the sucker."
> *He continued with his two-hour workouts into his 90s, which also included walking.*[28]
> 
> ...

----------


## chassamui

I have no aspirations of a dedicated personal wiki entry, just a desire to prolong the hedonistic lifestyle.  :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

^ I dig it.  :Wink:

----------


## Black Heart

I'm now watching my daily caloric intake, in general.

Today I'll do moderate cardio (122-125 hbp) for 25- 30 min and then do lifting for back.

I'vr never really done cardio before because of that mantra about its effects. 

I usually don't do cardio on the same day as lifting, except for moderate walks after a lifting session for 35+ minutes or so.

For Back:

T-bar row (no chest plate) x 3-4 or 5 
Vertical row (machine) x 3
Lat Pull down x 4
One arm DB row x 3

Back extension (machine) perhaps. 

Tomorrow I'll do biceps. 

*wjblaney:*

It's interesting you do behind the neck pull-downs. I assume you're keeping the weight moderate to low. Can cause injury, but if it's working for you then great.

I learned of a new exercise for Traps that I've never heard of until now.

With DBs, you basically to a DB side raise, both arms at the same time, but instead of stopping where you normally do on a DB side raise, you go _all the way up and touch them at the top._ I feel it in my Traps.

Perhaps you've heard of this exercise.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I'm now watching my daily caloric intake, in general.


That's interesting. I've decided to let my body be my barometer on food intake, relying on a strict low carb, high protein and fiber and healthy fats diet most days with one or two cheat days most weeks (can't resist sticky rice with mango or blueberry cheesecake rarely. I've found Thais do sweets really well  :Smile: ). And I can't read the cal. count on most of the labels of the food I buy anyway. But I also do heavy cardio at least 3 times a week and that really helps burn extra calories.




> I'vr never really done cardio before because of that mantra about its effects.


Which mantra is that?




> It's interesting you do behind the neck pull-downs. I assume you're keeping the weight moderate to low. Can cause injury, but if it's working for you then great.
> 
> I learned of a new exercise for Traps that I've never heard of until now.
> 
> With DBs, you basically to a DB side raise, both arms at the same time, but instead of stopping where you normally do on a DB side raise, you go all the way up and touch them at the top. I feel it in my Traps.
> 
> Perhaps you've heard of this exercise.


I used to feel very uncomfortable with behind-the-neck pull-downs also. But pull downs and pull ups are a couple of exercises where I feel the arthritis in my shoulders, if I'm not real careful. So with the behind-the-neck version, I don't pull the bar down past my neck so don't do a full downward extension, where I would feel the arthritis and not the muscle (as happens with the front version of the pull down where I would extend downwards to chest level). My weight range is 150lbs.- 200lbs. I also dip my neck (cheat) so never worry about injury. But I do feel a good stretch in my traps and the middle of my back some times. I never feel anything but muscle pain and fatigue on pull ups but figure no pain, no gain with that one.

No, I haven't heard of that full extension DB lateral raise you mentioned. I'll give it a try today. On first thought, b/c of my arthritis, it seems there's no way I could do it except with very light weights.

Doing chest and shoulders today. I try to do 4 sets of chest exercises and 4 for shoulders.

Love this machine:


will try raises on a incline bench for the first time and love this one also (where I'll see if I can incorporate your suggestion into the exercise):


My fourth shoulder exercise might be DB lifts (prolly sitting) or shrugs.

Actually, just about time to hit the gym.  :bananaman:

----------


## AntRobertson

> I'm sure you mean one body group per day, right? I've never heard about "bro splits". Whatever are they?


Yep group/part, chest, back, arms etc. Bro splits is just another name for that. Taken from the traditional bodybuilding routine.




> I eat, drink and smoke as much and as often as I like. The exercise is just a means to be able to enjoy life and continue having the choice of those worthwhile evils.
> Call it reward based training.


I used to be ridiculously strict when it came to nutrition. Nothing went in my mouth unless I knew the precise macros, tracked them, and it had been weighed/measured. Not so much now (although I still track macros).

For no particularly good (or even healthy) reason I was obsessed with keeping my bodyfat at <10%. Difficult to maintain that and shit got a bit creepy when I started seeing veins in my abs.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I like to keep my workouts pretty simple: always start with the most 'difficult'/taxing compound movement (e.g. pull-ups, bench, squats etc.) and take it from there.


God, this was brought home to me in a big way just today. I did chest and shoulders and last week did dips on a machine like this:



I used to love the pump/stretch i felt in my chest, when I did this exercise, and that I could do 4 sets of 25. For a long time now, I have been barely getting to 4 X 15 and just hurting, no pump, no fun, just frustration. Dear God, am I deteriorating due to age now? Inshallah. (I'm going to turn 65 on nov. 10). 

Today, for some reason, I started the day with dips and BINGO 4 X 25. Oh, and each rep felt so easy and FUN. I felt the stretch and could drop down all the way, hold it there for all 25 reps, if I wanted to, and made sure by the 25th rep I was too fatigued to do any more (b/c Jack LaLanne always said he did every set to fatigue.  :Smile: )




> I'm an expert and world authority on nutrition and exercise... When it comes to my body. Anyone else, largely no idea.


Brilliant! 




> I used to be ridiculously strict when it came to nutrition. Nothing went in my mouth unless I knew the precise macros, tracked them, and it had been weighed/measured. Not so much now (although I still track macros).


Can you describe your diet? Still experimenting? Drink at all?




> However put your average joe off the street on the same pharmaceutical and training regime and he still wouldn't achieve anywhere near the same results: genetics is still the most determinate factor and those guys are genetic freaks... And just plain freaks for that matter.


That is fantastically observant.




> Yep group/part, chest, back, arms etc. Bro splits is just another name for that. Taken from the traditional bodybuilding routine.


So you, like, work out 5 days a week, one group per day, something like 7 or 8 exercises for each group? 4 sets? Same weight for all sets, a pyramid of some kind, some other routine? (Just talking about your bro splits cycle.) Do you watch the clock? 




> For no particularly good (or even healthy) reason I was obsessed with keeping my bodyfat at <10%. Difficult to maintain that and shit got a bit creepy when I started seeing veins in my abs.


Do you measure your body fat anymore? Do you find this picture accurate? If so, which guy should the avg. joe off the street try to emulate?

----------


## Neverna

IMO, the picture is not accurate.

----------


## Sumbitch

> IMO, the picture is not accurate.


From the Web site (www.leanerbydesign.com): 



> Some men cannot see much in the way of abs at 15%, perhaps just to top 2, so use this as a rough guide, not a rigid one.


Here are others:

----------


## Neverna

I think this one is more accurate...

----------


## Sumbitch

I'd like to get down to 15%, personally, whatever that looks like on me. And as our resident personal trainer and nutritionist, Ant, has pointed out, every body is different, including and starting with muscle building genes. So who knows what I would look like, if I reached that goal. But this is the picture of 15% I'd like to envision:


At least it's a goal and only one of many I have related to exercise and nutrition.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Can you describe your diet? Still experimenting? Drink at all?


Sure, it's pretty simple: basically just _x_ amount of calories per day broken into carbs/proteins/fats macros depending on my goal. So currently for me that's 2,600 calories at 319 grams carbs (50%); 191 grams protein (30%); and 57 grams fats (20%).

However I'm just about to change that (literally, doing it right now and that reminded me of this thread) so it will be more like 2,300 cals per day @ 40% carbs / 40% protein / 20% fats. So I take that and work it into six meals/snacks per day. That's entirely arbitrary by the way. There's no real reason to eat x amount of times per day, it could just as easily be three meals or even one giant one but that suits my lifestyle.

I wouldn't say that I experiment really. My main theory is that any diet that excludes something is, by definition, not a well-balanced and whole diet so I avoid things like paleo and all that stuff. I like to keep things as simple as possible and stick to pretty much the same foods and just change/adjust quantities to suit.

I have one distinct bonus when it comes to diet in that I'm really not that fussed with food and can quite happily eat the same thing every day (which in fact is pretty much what I do). There are foods I like and those I don't but really I'm not that fussed - if there was a tasteless/odorless paste that contained all nutritional needs I'd happily scoff that down.

As for drink nah not really. That's not really a diet issue for me (although it's a whole lot of empty calories!) I just can't handle alcohol like I used to. I'd say that on average throughout the year I'd be lucky if it were a couple of beers per week and even then I can go weeks/months without a single one. That being said I'm off home for Xmas so undoubtedly that average is about to take a hammering.  :Very Happy: 



> So you, like, work out 5 days a week, one group per day, something like 7 or 8 exercises for each group? 4 sets? Same weight for all sets, a pyramid of some kind, some other routine? (Just talking about your bro splits cycle.) Do you watch the clock?


Yep, five days per week, Mon - Fri. 

My bro-split breaks down to: legs; chest; back; arms; and shoulders and the focus is more of higher weight/lower reps so I stick to five or six exercises, 3 - 4 sets of each, generally starting with a lighter weight to warm-up and then full-weight.

I don't watch the clock at all but since I've only got the two basic work-out plans I pretty much know how long it will take anyway.



> Do you measure your body fat anymore? Do you find this picture accurate? If so, which guy should the avg. joe off the street try to emulate?


Nah not anymore. When I was cutting I'd do it weekly but I basically can't be bothered now plus I've gotten pretty good at just being able to eyeball myself and guesstimate. You need to keep in mind also that even with calipers etc. it's just an estimate. The only completely accurate measure is that hydro-chamber test that they have and that's simply not practical to be doing regularly.

As to that pic nope doesn't look accurate to me. The second one seems closer (the one you've posted above).

At my lowest I was probably around 7 - 8% and currently I'm more like 10 - 12%. Really it's like asking how long is a piece of string though. Personally I feel a whole lot more comfortable at 10 - 12% than I did under 10%. I just don't think that trying to maintain at <10% is workable for most people - it's mentally and physically taxing - and if you don't know what you're doing it can also be quite unhealthy.

At end of the day it comes down to having and maintaining a good balance in everything.



> goal


That's the keyword right there.

Setting, working towards, and achieving a goal(s). If you don't have those you're likely just spinning your wheels and wasting your time.

----------


## baconandeggs

What are you training for?

----------


## AntRobertson

> What are you training for?


Nothing in particular, just training for trainings sake.

----------


## baconandeggs

How do you measure fat and proteins in a piece of meat?

----------


## AntRobertson

> How do you measure fat and proteins in a piece of meat?


Depends on the meat really, but plenty of resources/apps etc. out there that can tell you that: e.g. 350g of Eye Fillet steak has about 112g protein and 19 fat

----------


## baconandeggs

Weighing each meal and looking up stats is what pros would do. Pretty hardcore.

Ive never even looked at steak weight prior to cooking. Then counting carrots, pumpkin etc it would be a hassle for each meal.

----------


## Steam

It seems hardcore to me too. Cooking and eating food is one of the greatest pleasures on the planet and if eaten sensibly a 100% healthy diet can be achieved whilst still enjoying a wide variety of pleasures. To eat exactly the same goo every day (picturing eating tuna out of a tin, that kind of thing) because I only care about having a particular image that I want people to see wouldn't be for me.

----------


## Neverna

> Ive never even looked at steak weight prior to cooking. Then counting carrots, pumpkin etc it would be a hassle for each meal.


Buying meat in a supermarket makes that easy. The weight is usually printed on the package. Sometimes it will even give a breakdown of typical protein/fat/carbs.

----------


## Black Heart

> Weighing each meal and looking up stats is what pros would do. Pretty hardcore.


Yeah, when they are in season and with contests coming. 

I've just been reading up more lately trying to trim excess cals to get the basic numbers in my head, in general.

It does work. Tweaking caloric macros and caloric intake.

----------


## baconandeggs

> Originally Posted by baconandeggs
> 
> 
> Ive never even looked at steak weight prior to cooking. Then counting carrots, pumpkin etc it would be a hassle for each meal.
> 
> 
> Buying meat in a supermarket makes that easy. The weight is usually printed on the package. Sometimes it will even give a breakdown of typical protein/fat/carbs.



I usually buy meat from butchers not supermarket stuff and rarely eat the whole lot.

Who cares about %s unless you're training for olympics or pro sport anyway?

----------


## chassamui

> Originally Posted by baconandeggs
> 
> 
> Weighing each meal and looking up stats is what pros would do. Pretty hardcore.
> 
> 
> Yeah, when they are in season and with contests coming. 
> 
> I've just been reading up more lately trying to trim excess cals to get the basic numbers in my head, in general.
> ...


How tragic can one adult human get? You don't need a life coach to tell you that such foibles are borderline insane. FFS get a life and stop worrying about such facile crap.

----------


## Latindancer

*Ahem...

Dave Scott (born January 4, 1954) is a U.S. triathlete and the first six-time Ironman Triathlon Hawaii Champion (1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1986, and 1987). The Hawaii Triathlon is regarded by many as the hardest in the world.

While training for triathlons, Scott followed a strict vegetarian diet.*

----------


## chassamui

> *Ahem...
> 
> Dave Scott (born January 4, 1954) is a U.S. triathlete and the first six-time Ironman Triathlon Hawaii Champion (1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1986, and 1987). The Hawaii Triathlon is regarded by many as the hardest in the world.
> 
> While training for triathlons, Scott followed a strict vegetarian diet.*


And I bet he had no social life either.

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by baconandeggs
> ...


Not sure what you mean.

I don't even think about it. I just alter a few things and it changes the macro intake. 

I'm cutting now.  It's working.

As for "getting a life," things are great: I'm busy with work, the girlfriend, studying 2 foreign languages formally, and enjoying time with good friends. 

Life is good (knock on wood).

----------


## AntRobertson

> Weighing each meal and looking up stats is what pros would do. Pretty hardcore.
> 
> Ive never even looked at steak weight prior to cooking. Then counting carrots, pumpkin etc it would be a hassle for each meal.


Nah not really. I eat most my meals at either home or work so just keep a set of food scales at both plus there are apps to help calculate macros. Takes some prep but it's all second nature to me now.



> It seems hardcore to me too. Cooking and eating food is one of the greatest pleasures on the planet and if eaten sensibly a 100% healthy diet can be achieved whilst still enjoying a wide variety of pleasures. To eat exactly the same goo every day (picturing eating tuna out of a tin, that kind of thing) because I only care about having a particular image that I want people to see wouldn't be for me.


Well each to their own and all that, but if you're doing it (or anything) worried about the image other people see then you're doing it for the wrong reasons anyway in my opinion.

----------


## chassamui

> Well each to their own and all that, but if you're doing it (or anything) worried about the image other people see then you're doing it for the wrong reasons anyway in my opinion. AntRobertson is offline


I could be wrong but I think that was exactly the point he was making?
While it clearly makes sense for pro athletes to make sacrifices to diet and nutrition, regular folk obsessing over calorific content and micro managing what they eat does not.
Barbara/snaff/milkman doing it and reacting to fads with his hypochondria will only end in tears, when the latest medical evidence proves that tofu is eating you from the inside. Only for same medical research to prove the opposit 2 weeks later.
I honestly believe that we are not around long enough for this kind of instability to rule ourt lives. 
I am content that common sense tells me one cannot survive too long on a diet of pig fat and jam sandwiches. Anything else is just mild hysteria.

----------


## AntRobertson

^you could be right actually, just re-read it

----------


## chassamui

Insightful post Ant. I was hoping for a full blown self flaggelating confession, but that will do for now.  :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

I'm posting in between blows whilst be held up by the fuckwit slow foursome ahead of us on the course, insight lacking currently  :Very Happy:

----------


## Steam

I got pretty huge in my teens before I grew up and snapped out of it. I then stuck to a more normal exercise regime. Reading the below reminded me of the way I used to think and the stodgy protein goo that made up 3 of my 6 drab meals per day.




> There's nothing wrong with weight lifting.
> 
> Originally Posted by baconandeggs
> What are you training for?
> Nothing in particular, just training for trainings sake.
> 
> I have a dedicated legs day. Which incidentally, I fucking hate!
> 
> I can lift a whole lot heavier than my joints can now stand.
> ...


Looking back I see a lot wrong with it. I was far from being happy.

----------


## AntRobertson

Well again each to their own. I'm perfectly happy and it ain't about being huge for me

----------


## Neverna

> While it clearly makes sense for pro athletes to make sacrifices to diet and nutrition, regular folk obsessing over calorific content and micro managing what they eat does not.


Some amateur athletes want to be as successful as they can and experiment with their diet to see what works best for them. Looking closely at the foods they eat and the calorific content of the foods they eat can help them decide what is best for them. It doesn't have to be for a lifetime or an obsession. 

It also makes sense for people looking to lose weight to look at the foods they eat to see why they are the weight they are. Once they have a better understanding of that, losing weight should be a bit easier.

----------


## chassamui

^Accepted but, if people are so dumb that they cannot figure the simple equation, eat shit and don't exercise, you will get fat. Frankly they deserve to be obese and pay for it.

----------


## baconandeggs

> ^Accepted but, if people are so dumb that they cannot figure the simple equation, eat shit and don't exercise, you will get fat. Frankly they deserve to be obese and pay for it.


Plenty of overweight people are happy.

----------


## AntRobertson

^^For me personally I don't see it as a sacrifice, it's just what I do/my lifestyle. As I say I wouldn't be a foodie even if I didn't do it - I eat to live as opposed to living to eat. Except when it comes to bacon. I fucking love bacon!

I do cringe every time I see Barbara going off about some fad diet thingie also though. It's ridiculous, nutrition is easy and simple, but you always get some clown who will say something like sugar = bad so next thing people are cutting all fruit out of their diets to avoid the sugar. Derp!

Dumb, short-sighted, and at the extreme end also dangerous.

----------


## AntRobertson

Incidentally this is what I'm just about to shove in me gob now:



6oz baked salmon, 3 cups mixed veg, all dutifully weighed/measured.

Not so bad is it??  :Very Happy:

----------


## baconandeggs

Frozen corn and carrots yuck. Where is the salmon skin? Crispy skin is the best bit.

----------


## AntRobertson

What makes you think I didn't cook the veg??  :Confused:

----------


## baconandeggs

> What makes you think I didn't cook the veg??


Unless you are a cutting nazi, that is frozen stuff.

----------


## AntRobertson

... Am I missing something here, do you mean it was frozen?

Because yeah it was. Until I cooked it.

----------


## baconandeggs

That is what I meant.

----------


## Steam

> Well again each to their own. I'm perfectly happy and it ain't about being huge for me


It wasn't about being huge for me but that is what the end result was after 3 years. I thought I was happy like you do but it's only when the obsessions are kicked that retrospect showed me the opposite was true. 

You've used words like obsessed and hate and the phrase doing it for the sake of it. That was me back then and I thought it made me happy. But it was pointless and achieved nothing. Can you pin down why you do it to yourself? To this day I can't understand what came over me.

----------


## AntRobertson

Do what to myself, exactly? Exercise regularly and eat healthy foods? It's pretty self-evident I would have thought.

I think you're taking my words out of context and/or misconstruing them. Your experience was apparently different to mine but that's the thing it was your experience. As I say I'm perfectly happy with the what's and why's of what I do. Enough so that - and no offense intended - but I don't really see the need to justify myself for doing so. Mostly because there's nothing to justify.

----------


## Black Heart

> What makes you think I didn't cook the veg??


You cooked 'e but didn't cut em.

That's good ol' canned carrots and corn.


Just sayin'

----------


## AntRobertson

Bagged, actually.

----------


## Black Heart

^ Cheers on the bagged veggies, Ant.

Here are some of our members in the gym, in action:

----------


## Steam

> Do what to myself, exactly? Exercise regularly and eat healthy foods? It's pretty self-evident I would have thought.


I was referring to doing exercises you hate, taking little pleasure in food other than to satisfy hunger and provide optimum fuel intake, wrecking your joints, having to unnaturally shovel down 1.61 kilos of protein per week, and obsessing over having 8-12% bodyfat when there are no health advantages over having a far more comfortably achievable and maintainable 13-17% bodyfat.




> I think you're taking my words out of context and/or misconstruing them.


I think you did that by amending what you previously mentioned into sounding more natural and healthy than it is.




> Your experience was apparently different to mine


No it was exactly the same and I can relate to every word you've written. I obsessed over food and bodyfat, did lots of weights for the sake of it some of which I hated, and I thought I was perfectly healthy and happy.




> As I say I'm perfectly happy with the what's and why's of what I do. Enough so that - and no offense intended - but I don't really see the need to justify myself for doing so. Mostly because there's nothing to justify.


Justifying it would be to explain why it's the right thing to do. I only asked if you know why you do it because all you have eluded to so far is that you do it for the sake of it which is exactly what I used to say when really I had no idea why I was doing it other than it was an obsession.

----------


## baconandeggs

I hate squats and they can be bad for knees if not done 100% right. Therefore dont do them. 

If you want fitness without high impact stress then walking, swimming and rowing is all you need.

----------


## chassamui

^Have you tried cycling?

----------


## Steam

Some high intensity interval training on one of these is good too.

----------


## AntRobertson

> I was referring to doing exercises you hate, taking little pleasure in food other than to satisfy hunger and provide optimum fuel intake, wrecking your joints, having to unnaturally shovel down 1.61 kilos of protein per week, and obsessing over having 8-12% bodyfat when there are no health advantages over having a far more comfortably achievable and maintainable 13-17% bodyfat.


Those are some oddly specific figures you've come up with there and not really in line with what I said either. 

And who said that I'd wrecked my joints? I said I take care/precautions not to do any damage to my joints.

And the bit about hating leg day was an in-joke by the way.



> No it was exactly the same and I can relate to every word you've written. I obsessed over food and bodyfat, did lots of weights for the sake of it some of which I hated, and I thought I was perfectly healthy and happy.


Yeah, I'm just not following your rationale there to be honest. It wasn't 'exactly the same' at all.

You say that, for you, it wasn't about getting huge but that you did as a result and weren't happy. That means that you were doing something wrong, albeit unintentionally. 

Honestly I find it a little bit amusing: I have an image in my head of some dude waking up one morning and discovering that he has accidentally gotten huge and being bummed about it. Anyways I digress...

I don't hate doing weights. I don't want to be huge, that's not and never has been my goal, so I'm not. Simples.

Therefore I don't see how your experiences in doing something that I'm not somehow makes me unhappy/obsessed/whatever.



> Justifying it would be to explain why it's the right thing to do. I only asked if you know why you do it because all you have eluded to so far is that you do it for the sake of it which is exactly what I used to say when really I had no idea why I was doing it other than it was an obsession.


O.K., well I do it because I want to and because I enjoy it. 

I don't think I really need any other reason than that do I.

----------


## AntRobertson

Ps. apropos of fock all, but you don't happen to use Italian designed and made upmarket domestic appliances do you?  :Very Happy:

----------


## kmart

[quote=chassamui;3124500]


> I am content that common sense tells me one cannot survive too long on a diet of pig fat and jam sandwiches. Anything else is just mild hysteria.


Contains all the major food groups. Don't see what's wrong with that diet at all.

I just had chicken in a basket. Threw away the chicken and just ate the basket for the fibre.

----------


## baconandeggs

[QUOTE=kmart;3125117]


> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> I am content that common sense tells me one cannot survive too long on a diet of pig fat and jam sandwiches. Anything else is just mild hysteria.
> 
> 
> Contains all the major food groups. Don't see what's wrong with that diet at all.
> 
> I just had chicken in a basket. Threw away the chicken and just ate the basket for the fibre.


You die whether you eat well or junk.

----------


## chassamui

> You die whether you eat well or junk.


Life is just a lesson in the application of common sense. You eat drink and exercise, by factoring in what you know and balancing that with what you enjoy. We each weigh the risks and lifestyle choices we make in pretty much everything we do.
I'm talking about subliminal choices here, not necessarily concscious decisions.
In the end it's as autonomous as breathing, we do it without having to be conscious of it, just aware of it.

----------


## baconandeggs

> Originally Posted by baconandeggs
> 
> You die whether you eat well or junk.
> 
> 
> Life is just a lesson in the application of common sense. You eat drink and exercise, by factoring in what you know and balancing that with what you enjoy. We each weigh the risks and lifestyle choices we make in pretty much everything we do.
> I'm talking about subliminal choices here, not necessarily concscious decisions.
> In the end it's as autonomous as breathing, we do it without having to be conscious of it, just aware of it.




Cravings and hormones can  over ride common sense.

----------


## chassamui

> Cravings and hormones can over ride common sense


Whoosh.

----------


## Steam

> Originally Posted by Steam
> 
> I was referring to doing exercises you hate, taking little pleasure in food other than to satisfy hunger and provide optimum fuel intake, wrecking your joints, having to unnaturally shovel down 1.61 kilos of protein per week, and obsessing over having 8-12% bodyfat when there are no health advantages over having a far more comfortably achievable and maintainable 13-17% bodyfat.
> 
> 
> Those are some oddly specific figures you've come up with there and not really in line with what I said either.


Perfectly in line with what you said and much less specific figures than what you came up with. 




> I was obsessed with keeping my bodyfat at <10%. At my lowest I was probably around 7 - 8% and currently I'm more like 10 - 12%. Personally I feel a whole lot more comfortable at 10 - 12% than I did under 10%. I just don't think that trying to maintain at <10% is workable for most people





> obsessing over having 8-12% bodyfat when there are no health advantages over having a far more comfortably achievable and maintainable 13-17% bodyfat.





> So currently for me that's 2,600 calories at 319 grams carbs (50%); 191 grams protein (30%); and 57 grams fats (20%).
> 
> However I'm just about to change that (literally, doing it right now and that reminded me of this thread) so it will be more like 2,300 cals per day @ 40% carbs / 40% protein / 20% fats.





> having to unnaturally shovel down 1.61 kilos of protein per week


See now? Surely you know that 920 calories of protein per day is 1.61 kilos per week. 

In my opinion anyone who isn't a pro bodybuilder who thinks they need to consume a gramme or more of protein per lb of bodyweight has problems. Let's hope you weigh in at more than 230 lbs otherwise you got problems.  





> Originally Posted by Steam
> 
> No it was exactly the same and I can relate to every word you've written. I obsessed over food and bodyfat, did lots of weights for the sake of it some of which I hated, and I thought I was perfectly healthy and happy.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'm just not following your rationale there to be honest. It wasn't 'exactly the same' at all.
> 
> You say that, for you, it wasn't about getting huge but that you did as a result and weren't happy. That means that you were doing something wrong, albeit unintentionally.


Could you quote the bit where I wrote that? You've completely misconstrued it. I was quite happy about getting huge at the time although that wasn't my aim but not when I looked back after I kicked the obsession. I felt disgusted by it later and of the healthy stuff I missed out on in life. 




> Honestly I find it a little bit amusing: I have an image in my head of some dude waking up one morning and discovering that he has accidentally gotten huge and being bummed about it.


You have a whacky imagination punk.

----------


## chassamui

> See now? Surely you know that 920 calories of protein per day is 1.61 kilos per week.


Surely this just has to be the least important and most insignificant piece of worthless information, in the whole world ever.
Who would obsess over such pointless and instantly forgettable pontification, and why?
FFS get a life, preferably devoid of such unsubstantial nonsense.

----------


## Steam

> Who would obsess over such pointless and instantly forgettable pontification?


You would.

----------


## AntRobertson

> In my opinion anyone who isn't a pro bodybuilder who thinks they need to consume a gramme or more of protein per lb of bodyweight has problems. Let's hope you weigh in at more than 230 lbs otherwise you got problems.


Cool, I'm happy for you that you have an opinion. Sorry too that you inadvertently got huge and then weren't happy with it.

I'm just a bit bemused that you think any of that has any relevance at all to someone you don't know on an Internet forum.



> Perfectly in line with what you said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				I *was* obsessed with keeping my bodyfat at *<10%*. At my lowest I was probably around 7 - 8% and *currently* I'm more like *10 - 12%*.
> 			
> ...


Nah, it's not.

I've highlighted some operative words/differences for you.

----------


## Steam

> Originally Posted by Steam
> 
> In my opinion anyone who isn't a pro bodybuilder who thinks they need to consume a gramme or more of protein per lb of bodyweight has problems. Let's hope you weigh in at more than 230 lbs otherwise you got problems.
> 
> 
> Cool, I'm happy for you that you have an opinion. Sorry too that you inadvertently got huge and then weren't happy with it.
> 
> I'm just a bit bemused that you think any of that has any relevance at all to someone you don't know on an Internet forum.


From where does your bemusement stem? 

You put all this stuff on an open discussion webpage. 

I'm discussing it. 

Now you don't want to. 

You are right that's bemusing. 




> Originally Posted by Steam
> 
> 
> Perfectly in line with what you said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What you've highlighted is that you don't think you are obsessing any more like you used to. From reading your current diet plans I can see that's incorrect.

----------


## AntRobertson

> From where does your bemusement stem? 
> 
> You put all this stuff on an open discussion webpage. 
> 
> I'm discussing it. 
> 
> Now you don't want to. 
> 
> You are right that's bemusing.


Aye, dude asked me some questions so I answered them. I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition from someone who can't even get what I said straight.

That is from whence said bemusement have sprung... _eth_.



> I'm discussing it. 
> 
> Now you don't want to.


Not so much don't want to, I just think you need to put yourself in my shoes for a wee bit: 

Do I need or want to be given unsolicited diet/exercise advice from someone who doesn't know me, seems to think his experiences are valid for me, and yet doesn't know enough about exercise and nutrition in the first place that he inadvertently got huge and then became unhappy about it?

Computer says 'no'.  :Smile:

----------


## baconandeggs

How do get "huge" and not notice progress along the way. Gym junkies look at mirrors 100 times a day. You see them in every gym.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Life is just a lesson in the application of common sense. You eat drink and exercise, by factoring in what you know and balancing that with what you enjoy. We each weigh the risks and lifestyle choices we make in pretty much everything we do.
> I'm talking about subliminal choices here, not necessarily concscious decisions.
> In the end it's as autonomous as breathing, we do it without having to be conscious of it, just aware of it.


What if you're not aware of it? Isn't the _seeking_ of enlightenment what is at the core of mystical religions like Hinduism and philosophies like Zen? Surely, "the seeking of" is not equivalent with "aware of" or "conscious of".

Therefore, life can be lived without subliminal choices _or_ conscious decisions, in other words, instinctively or emotionally.

Your definition of how life can be lived is valid also and prolly close to mine. But pay attention to those lessons!  :Smile:

----------


## Steam

> Originally Posted by Steam
> 
> From where does your bemusement stem? 
> 
> You put all this stuff on an open discussion webpage. 
> 
> I'm discussing it. 
> 
> Now you don't want to. 
> ...


There is no Spanish Inquisition. I asked you why you do what you do and I gave my opinion about some aspects of the information you have presented about you. Don't be so sensitive you might enjoy life more.  





> That is from whence said bemusement have sprung... _eth_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Steam
> 
> I'm discussing it. 
> ...


You have given out a lot of diet/exercise advice on this discussion to people you don't know. So what you are saying it's ok for you to do that but when someone else does that it's unsolicited so it shouldn't happen. That is very silly. 

You can't even get right what I said. I said I got huge in my teens when I was young and obsessed. Now I'm at the end of my 30s and I know a lot more about healthy exercise and nutrition. Your attempt to tell me that I don't know about exercise and nutrition is very silly.

----------


## Steam

> How do get "huge" and not notice progress along the way. Gym junkies look at mirrors 100 times a day. You see them in every gym.


I noticed but it didn't register for some reason and I kept at it until one day I really didn't like what I saw. I'm 1.88m and had 205lbs at 7% bodyfat. 20 years on I've 17% bodyfat at the same weight and I'm a heap happier. Could be because of healthier cholesterol levels or a load of other things.

----------


## chassamui

> Besides, I can detect a faint whiff of my healthy and nutritious food spoiling in my Italian designed and made upmarket domestic refrigeration appliance so should check that out.


The appliance that keeps on giving.  :rofl:

----------


## baconandeggs

I dont even know how to measure body fat.

----------


## Steam

> I dont even know how to measure body fat.


DEXA body scan would be best pal.

----------


## Neo

I've never been into weights for body building, I don't have the frame. 
I swim, cycle, run and in my mid forties try to avoid carbs like the plague, I just eat healthy take zinc, vit c and b and try to maintain a healthy posture. 

I'm suspicious of government/healthcare limits to cholesterol, blood sugar etc as generally the limit set is linked to the point where medication becomes ubiquitous, and a 1% lowering of the threshold can create millions of £/$ for pharmaceutical companies. Of course I believe there is a need for targets and limits where health is concerned, but I think too many are living under the added anxiety of having 'borderline' conditions.

----------


## baconandeggs

> I've never been into weights for body building, I don't have the frame. 
> I swim, cycle, run and in my mid forties try to avoid carbs like the plague, I just eat healthy take zinc, vit c and b and try to maintain a healthy posture. 
> 
> I'm suspicious of government/healthcare limits to cholesterol, blood sugar etc as generally the limit set is linked to the point where medication becomes ubiquitous, and a 1% lowering of the threshold can create millions of £/$ for pharmaceutical companies. Of course I believe there is a need for targets and limits where health is concerned, but I think too many are living under the added anxiety of having 'borderline' conditions.




People with high cholestrol can live longer than people with low levels. One big scam.

----------


## Steam

> Forget the gym - just 30 minutes of WALKING a day will keep you slim
> 
> PUBLISHED: 06:48, Wed, Nov 4, 2015 | UPDATED: 15:04, Wed, Nov 4, 2015
> 
> A BRISK 30-minute daily walk is a more effective way of losing weight than running or going to the gym, scientists have found.
> 
> Research from the London School of Economics said that people who regularly stride out are more likely to have slimmer waistlines and a lower body mass index than people who do high-intensity workouts.
> 
> Walking is most effective in promoting weight loss in women and those aged 50 or more according to the study which analysed data from 1999 to 2012.
> ...


http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/...xercise-health

It makes sense to me. I walk six miles per day, an hour to and from work. 

A pal of mine is in agony at the moment. He weight trains and is big but a month ago he ran into a serious case of tennis elbow. Now he is virtually unable to train and his muscles are literally wasting away. He says he can them rotting away, to use his words.

----------


## AntRobertson

> A pal of mine is in agony at the moment. He weight trains and is big but a month ago he ran into a serious case of tennis elbow. Now he is virtually unable to train and his muscles are literally wasting away. He says he can them rotting away, to use his words.


So why doesn't he just get it treated.

Sounds like a bit of a drama queen: you wouldn't lose a significant amount of muscle mass in a month (if even any at all).

----------


## Steam

What treatment do you suggest? A month ago when it was diagnosed he was told to avoid weight training for a few months. He carried on training with the injury for a few weeks in September not knowing what it was.

I didn't say he had lost a significant amount of muscle mass. He says he is in pain because they have started wasting away and he can feel the process happening now.

----------


## AntRobertson

> What treatment do you suggest?


Rest usually does the trick. Anti-inflammatories or Cortisone for the more serious cases.



> He carried on training with the injury for a few weeks in September not knowing what it was.


Well that's not very smart is it.



> He says he is in pain because they have started wasting away and he can feel the process happening now.


 :Confused:  Sounds like physical pain isn't his only problem.

----------


## Steam

Rest is a given. He's been told to stop training until January. Sorry but the way you said why doesn't he just get it treated when I mentioned his muscle decaying pain throughout his upper body sounded like you knew of a way he can get it instantly fixed and get back to training now.  




> Originally Posted by Steam
> 
> A pal of mine is in agony at the moment. He weight trains and is big but a month ago he ran into a serious case of tennis elbow. Now he is virtually unable to train and his muscles are literally wasting away. He says he can them rotting away, to use his words.
> 
> 
> So why doesn't he just get it treated.

----------


## Steam

What do you think of the walking article?

----------


## baconandeggs

Ultra sound ^

----------


## AntRobertson

> Sorry but the way you said why doesn't he just get it treated when I mentioned his muscle decaying pain throughout his upper body sounded like you knew of a way he can get it instantly fixed and get back to training now.


Ahh righto. Yeah as far as I know rest / management is about the only option. Apparently there is a surgery for it also but that's only for serious cases (plus of course that would involve recovery time anyway).



> What do you think of the walking article?


Makes sense to me all things considered (age, convenience etc.). I was actually just thinking the other day that I might start getting out for walks in the evening.

Personally I've always thought that a little bit of something/anything exercise wise is better than a whole lot of nothing,

----------


## Steam

Good on you. I love my walks. 38 but taking it easy these days. My pal was like  ::smile11::  yesterday

----------


## AntRobertson

Have you got one of those pedometer things?

Apparently you can get apps and such that measure the steps you take everyday.

Would be interesting to just measure a normal days activity as a baseline or for someone who is into it more like you track all your daily stats.

----------


## baconandeggs

> Have you got one of those pedometer things?
> 
> Apparently you can get apps and such that measure the steps you take everyday.
> 
> Would be interesting to just measure a normal days activity as a baseline or for someone who is into it more like you track all your daily stats.



Interesting for nerds

----------


## Steam

> Have you got one of those pedometer things?
> 
> Apparently you can get apps and such that measure the steps you take everyday.
> 
> Would be interesting to just measure a normal days activity as a baseline or for someone who is into it more like you track all your daily stats.


I don't see the point. I'm good with my weight and fitness level. I find exercise to be a lot more enjoyable done in a natural and relaxing way than in a scientific way. Likewise I don't track my diet down to the calorie and mouthful. I eat sensibly and enjoy my cooking. That's good enough.

----------


## AntRobertson

Goodo. I'm not really into the science either, I just like to know/have/set incremental goals. More motivation than anything.

----------


## Steam

That's the thing. I don't need motivation and goals. I walk 6 miles per day. I've done it for years so it's no effort and I'm not aiming for 10 miles per day.

----------


## Sumbitch

> He says he is in pain because they have started wasting away and he can feel the process happening now.


Sounds like one of those ruggers who tore his hamstring, I think, during the World Cup. I think I read a quote where he will have surgery and won't be able to exercise for 6-8 months afterwards. He also said he could feel muscle wastage in only one week. Ouch.




> Sounds like physical pain isn't his only problem.


yeah, a negative attitude being another.




> Makes sense to me all things considered (age, convenience etc.). I was actually just thinking the other day that I might start getting out for walks in the evening.
> 
> Personally I've always thought that a little bit of something/anything exercise wise is better than a whole lot of nothing,





> That's the thing. I don't need motivation and goals. I walk 6 miles per day. I've done it for years so it's no effort and I'm not aiming for 10 miles per day.


You all might like to read this interesting find Brisk walks are BETTER at keeping weight off than going to the gym | Daily Mail Online

----------


## Steam

Yeah thanks wjnlaney I've already read it and linked it From the Mail's sister rag in #235. It told me what I already knew. I haven't been near a gym in over a decade and I've no intention of changing that. There's nothing natural about weights.

----------


## Sumbitch

six miles is a good walk.

----------


## Chittychangchang

Back in the Gym today for some upper body exercises after a injury to my achilles tendon.

30 mins on the Bench press with dumb bells :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

How did you injure your Achilles?

----------


## Chittychangchang

> How did you injure your Achilles?


Climbing up mountains, ruddy painful and takes a long time to heal.

----------


## Sumbitch

Rehab makes it all seem worthless, eh?

----------


## Steam

You have to watch out for arrows climbing them mountains.

----------


## Chittychangchang

> Rehab makes it all seem worthless, eh?


Not really.

I'm glad we climbed them and ticked them off the list.

----------


## baconandeggs

> Yeah thanks wjnlaney I've already read it and linked it From the Mail's sister rag in #235. It told me what I already knew. I haven't been near a gym in over a decade and I've no intention of changing that. There's nothing natural about weights.


True.

----------


## AntRobertson

Well I guess that I just unnaturally lifted some weights this morning then.  :Cool:

----------


## baconandeggs

> Well I guess that I just unnaturally lifted some weights this morning then.


Youd be on roids  :rofl:

----------


## AntRobertson

Well that seems to be the prevailing theory with a couple of posters on here.

Which is odd.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I'm glad we climbed them and ticked them off the list.


I would be glad, too. To the point, in fact, where _nothing_ else matters.

Which bastards did you climb?

----------


## Black Heart

> Back in the Gym today for some upper body exercises after a injury to my achilles tendon.
> 
> 30 mins on the Bench press with dumb bells


What exercises did you do?

----------


## Sumbitch

squats 4 sets, pyramiding down in reps (15, 12, 10, 8) and up in weight (lowest weight 35 kg, upped each succeeding set 20 kg)leg press, 4 sets, 8 reps, 225 kgsitting calf raise, 4 sets, 15 reps, 55 kgprone leg curl, 4 sets, again pyramiding down in reps and up in weight (pretty light weights: 40 lb, 50 lb, 60 lb, 70 lb)sitting leg extensions, 4 sets (don't remember reps and weight at the moment)

I also jogged for an hour and 5 min. (10 k) on the treadmill.

----------


## Black Heart

> squats 4 sets, pyramiding down in reps (15, 12, 10, 8) and up in weight (lowest weight 35 kg, upped each succeeding set 20 kg)leg press, 4 sets, 8 reps, 225 kgsitting calf raise, 4 sets, 15 reps, 55 kgprone leg curl, 4 sets, again pyramiding down in reps and up in weight (pretty light weights: 40 lb, 50 lb, 60 lb, 70 lb)sitting leg extensions, 4 sets (don't remember reps and weight at the moment)
> 
> I also jogged for an hour and 5 min. (10 k) on the treadmill.


I'm starting to add cardio on weight lifting day. 

An hour after eating I'll do moderate cardio (116-122 hbp) for 25-30 min on an exercise bike and treadmill walk, and then do a lifting session. 

PWO1 meal is immediately after the workout.

----------


## Neverna

> An hour after eating I'll do moderate cardio (116-122 hbp) for 25-30 min on an exercise bike and treadmill walk, and then do a lifting session.


Why exercise so quickly after eating? Was it only a very light meal?

----------


## Black Heart

> An hour after eating I'll do moderate cardio (116-122 hbp) for 25-30 min on an exercise bike and treadmill walk, and then do a lifting session.
> 			
> 		
> 
> Why exercise so quickly after eating? Was it only a very light meal?


It's not so quickly after eating a meal.

You're body needs fuel for a workout. And yes, it's a small meal. 

When only lifting (no cardio) I wait 90 minutes before the start of a lifting session.

Some people wait an hour or 75 minutes.

The Post Workout meal is also important.

----------


## Sumbitch

> An hour after eating I'll do moderate cardio (116-122 hbp) for 25-30 min on an exercise bike and treadmill walk, and then do a lifting session.


A good plan and one I've seen others implement successfully. I did so early this week myself. The problem for me is I run and I sweat a lot. Lifting afterwards can be a little bit to very uncomfortable, if I'm soaking wet. all my clothing (polyester) wicks sweat and drys quickly but it's still not fun drying out in a real cool gym. Even recently, I thought nothing of running after lifting so could go directly home and shower afterwards. That gets stressful, though, b/c throughout your lifting session the thought is always in the back of your mind that I've got to run afterwards. That's very distracting and I'm sure my lifting sessions suffered because of it. So I've found alternating days of lifting and running is really a lot less stressful and _fun_ as I am much less distracted on either day. 

But sometimes I feel a little guilty running only 3 days a week. So three days ago I tried running first, then lifting. I only ran for a half hour and felt a little guilty about that but I was still soaked through. I found, however, after drying out for 15 minutes or so, I could do my regular lifting routine. 

As far as yesterday goes, it was leg day anyway and I can get through my lifting in only an hour or so b/c there aren't nearly as many leg exercises you can choose from as there are for the upper body. Looking forward to running after only an hour lifting is not so dreadful as lifting 1.5/2 hours before running is.

I still mix things up a lot when it comes to what I do each workout. My only definite rule is _not_ to lift two days in a row.

 :spam2:

----------


## Sumbitch

> An hour after eating I'll do moderate cardio (116-122 hbp) for 25-30 min on an exercise bike and treadmill walk, and then do a lifting session.
> 			
> 		
> 
> Why exercise so quickly after eating? Was it only a very light meal?


Yeah, a lot of times I won't eat at all before exercising. But I've found a couple of food sources that are light on my stomach: boiled eggs and protein shakes. Sometimes I eat sticky rice or Wai-tiao (noodle soup) but disdain carbs normally (especially white rice). Protein shakes are designed to drink before workouts but I still wait up to 2 hours afterwards before starting the workout.

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				An hour after eating I'll do moderate cardio (116-122 hbp) for 25-30 min on an exercise bike and treadmill walk, and then do a lifting session.
> ...


I usually wait three hours or three and a half. Two and a half hours would be the least I would wait if it was a light meal.

----------


## Sumbitch

> An hour after eating I'll do moderate cardio (116-122 hbp) for 25-30 min on an exercise bike and treadmill walk, and then do a lifting session.





> Why exercise so quickly after eating? Was it only a very light meal?





> I usually wait three hours or three and a half. Two and a half hours would be the least I would wait if it was a light meal.


That's good for me, too, as far as solid food goes. But protein shakes are also designed to help increase the intensity of a workout, supposedly, by increasing amino acid delivery and uptake by muscles during training. Waiting too long after ingestion will defeat that purpose, IMNSFHO.

However, to Black Heart's credit, I just found this quote on bodybuilding.com: 


> Consume your second meal roughly one hour before lifting. Don't get worked up about counting the minutes and seconds, as if five minutes will be the difference between 17- and 18-inch arms. Do the best you can, and try to time it so you can begin training without a lot of food in your gutrunning to the garbage can to yak just isn't fun. Most people can benefit from 40 grams of carbs before they train.

----------


## Neverna

> protein shakes are also designed to help increase the intensity of a workout, supposedly, by increasing amino acid delivery and uptake by muscles during training. Waiting too long after ingestion will defeat that purpose, IMNSFHO.


Each to their own, of course, and whatever works for you is best for you. However, surely amino acids are used to build muscle after exercise, and that muscle has to breakdown before it rebuilds. As such, it seems to me to be a bit premature to take them before exercise. To help increase the intensity of a workout you need energy (calories) and plenty of oxygen to the working muscles. Exercising so soon after eating will lead to a reduction in the amount of oxygen available to the muscles as some oxygen will be used to digest the recently eaten food. 




> However, to Black Heart's credit, I just found this quote on bodybuilding.com: 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Consume your second meal roughly one hour before lifting. Don't get worked up about counting the minutes and seconds, as if five minutes will be the difference between 17- and 18-inch arms. Do the best you can, and try to time it so you can begin training without a lot of food in your gut—running to the garbage can to yak just isn't fun. Most people can benefit from 40 grams of carbs before they train.


40 grams of carbs is 160 calories. At least half that number of calories will be burnt in the hour before exercise. The other 80 calories will be used during exercise. However, for me, it would be the 40 grams of food undigested sitting in my stomach  that would be a problem for me. I suppose it would depend on the type of food eaten and nature of the exercise. For me, out running on the roads or on a track, eating an hour before a run is a no-no. Maybe it wouldn't be such a  problem for you in a gym. Like I said, each to their own, whatever works for you is all-good.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Each to their own, of course, and whatever works for you is best for you. However, surely amino acids are used to build muscle after exercise, and that muscle has to breakdown before it rebuilds. As such, it seems to me to be a bit premature to take them before exercise. To help increase the intensity of a workout you need energy (calories) and plenty of oxygen to the working muscles. Exercising so soon after eating will lead to a reduction in the amount of oxygen available to the muscles as some oxygen will be used to digest the recently eaten food.


Yes, I've read that argument against pre-workout protein shakes. But in terms of the amount of protein consumed over the entire day, a pre-workout shake is just as good as a post-workout one. And as it's difficult for me to consume enough protein during the day without at least two shakes (i'm not a meat eater), a pre-workout shake is valid on my menu. Secondly, it does take my mind off my empty stomach while working out which adds to my motivation.

Not sure why you mentioned working out so soon after eating. I've already told you i agreed with you in waiting longer than 2 hours after eating solid food, before exercising, if I eat anything at all. Confusing me with Black heart?  :Smile: 




> 40 grams of carbs is 160 calories. At least half that number of calories will be burnt in the hour before exercise. The other 80 calories will be used during exercise. However, for me, it would be the 40 grams of food undigested sitting in my stomach that would be a problem for me. I suppose it would depend on the type of food eaten and nature of the exercise. For me, out running on the roads or on a track, eating an hour before a run is a no-no. Maybe it wouldn't be such a problem for you in a gym. Like I said, each to their own, whatever works for you is all-good.


The quote was for Black Heart's ego. I didn't hold an opinion on it. But as you've gone into depth on the subject. I'll give you my opinion.

You're absolutely right. Food in the stomach is not a real issue as regards lifting weights (as regards comfortability). However, on a run, I want nothing in my stomach, a protein shake just to stave off the feeling of starving myself, taken a few hours earlier, being the one exception.

----------


## Neverna

> in terms of the amount of protein consumed over the entire day, a pre-workout shake is just as good as a post-workout one. And as it's difficult for me to consume enough protein during the day without at least two shakes (i'm not a meat eater), a pre-workout shake is valid on my menu. Secondly, it does take my mind off my empty stomach while working out which adds to my motivation.


Fair enough. 




> Not sure why you mentioned working out so soon after eating. I've already told you i agreed with you in waiting longer than 2 hours after eating solid food, before exercising, if I eat anything at all. Confusing me with Black heart?


I was responding to the quote from bodybuilding.com. It said to "Consume your second meal roughly one hour before lifting".  

On the issue of shakes, I might (personally) consider drinking a protein shake an hour before a workout as food. I suppose it would depend on how thick it is and how many calories it contained. (It has been a long time since I consumed a protein shake).





.

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Neverna
> ...


It depends on what your goals are and the intensity and volume of your workout plan.

If I did what you do, I'd lose muscle. 

I'm not bulking at the moment but I want to preserve what I've gained over the last 1 1/2 years.

----------


## Neverna

> If I did what you do, I'd lose muscle.


Really? How often do you eat? Every hour throughout the day when you're awake?

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> 
> If I did what you do, I'd lose muscle. 
> 
> 
> Really? How often do you eat? Every hour throughout the day when you're awake?


Nobodies eats every hour. 

And I don't believe the so-called rule that one needs to eat every 3.4 to 4 hours either.

The pre and post workout meals are on lifting days.

I don't count Macros, as I'm not an athlete nor competitor, but I do know my basic macro percentages for Macros.

----------


## Neverna

I can't see how eating an hour before exercise will make any difference to your muscle mass.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I was responding to the quote from bodybuilding.com. It said to "Consume your second meal roughly one hour before lifting".


Yeah, that article was actually one man's workout and nutrition plan. It wasn't offered as a general guide. He also said he recommends eating two meals before working out. I don't agree with that and sorry about the misconception.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I can't see how eating an hour before exercise will make any difference to your muscle mass.


Neither can I. The point is what and how much you eat during the day. Even Arnold agrees with that. He specifically says he eats (when he was in his heyday) 5 meals a day (with two being protein shakes) and eats when he's hungry, not as a part of a specific schedule, although he probably was very routine organized. But most of us are, because all beings are organized. But scheduling meals at a specific time re: of how hungry you are or simply because your schedule calls for it at some specific hour, could very possibly lead to obsession, which bodybuilding can easily do anyway (see Stain's earlier posts in this thread). 

But if you want to see how Arnold built mass, this the very best video on the subject b/c it covers his entire philosophy (which I think is very good) and he narrates it at his current age but shows and describes his workouts in his heyday:

----------


## Sumbitch

> On the issue of shakes, I might (personally) consider drinking a protein shake an hour before a workout as food. I suppose it would depend on how thick it is and how many calories it contained. (It has been a long time since I consumed a protein shake).


GNC makes it real easy. Their Whey Protein product (chocolate and vanilla) comes with a scoop and a shaker. The scoop contains 128 calories, if I'm not mistaken, and you simply fill the shaker up with water and add the scoop of powder. The shaker, btw, is a marvel of technology. GNC also makes a Whey Isolate powder with 240 calories per scoop, I think. Additionally, you can make your shakes into some real great tasting meals: for example, fill with chocolate soy milk instead of water. And there will still be room for a half a cup of 0% yoghurt.  

But just the powder + water has the consistency of water, really, as far as how thick it is.

----------


## Neverna

> But if you want to see how Arnold built mass, this the very best video on the subject b/c it covers his entire philosophy (which I think is very good) and he narrates it at his current age but shows and describes his workouts in his heyday:


Yeah, good video.

----------


## AntRobertson

> It's not so quickly after eating a meal.
> 
> You're body needs fuel for a workout. And yes, it's a small meal. 
> 
> When only lifting (no cardio) I wait 90 minutes before the start of a lifting session.
> 
> Some people wait an hour or 75 minutes.
> 
> The Post Workout meal is also important.


Pre/post-work out meals and meal timing in general is a load of bollocks in my humble opinion.

Science agrees with me too.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Pre/post-work out meals and meal timing in general is a load of bollocks in my humble opinion.
> 
> Science agrees with me too.


The best philosophy there is, is eat when hungry, even if that's only once a day (of solid food). Also, physical weakness can be a sign of hunger, so know your body and pay attention to it. It only gets complicated when deciding the makeup of your meals, in terms of quality and quantity. Also, there are so few calories in a protein shake that drinking one before a workout is not going to make you fat and the shake will ensure you have enough energy for a good workout. A post workout shake will restore glycogen and water and provide the same nutrients as a small meal when making a meal might be impractical. And, typically after a workout, one is not very hungry anyway.

----------


## AntRobertson

> The best philosophy there is, is eat when hungry, even if that's only once a day


Yep, exactamundo. Your body doesn't really care when it gets its energy only that it does.

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> I can't see how eating an hour before exercise will make any difference to your muscle mass.
> 
> 
> Neither can I. The point is what and how much you eat during the day. Even Arnold agrees with that. He specifically says he eats (when he was in his heyday) 5 meals a day (with two being protein shakes) and eats when he's hungry, not as a part of a specific schedule, although he probably was very routine organized. But most of us are, because all beings are organized. But scheduling meals at a specific time re: of how hungry you are or simply because your schedule calls for it at some specific hour, could very possibly lead to obsession, which bodybuilding can easily do anyway (see Stain's earlier posts in this thread). 
> 
> But if you want to see how Arnold built mass, this the very best video on the subject b/c it covers his entire philosophy (which I think is very good) and he narrates it at his current age but shows and describes his workouts in his heyday:


Yes, it's about what a person eats throughout the entire day. 

Eat 5-6 _small_ meals. 

Arnold was a professional IFBB competitor. He juiced and took loads of other cocktails. 

Us, or We....are trying to be healthy and (at least for me) trying to look a little better.

(I only believe shakes are necessary if someone cannot get enough protein from food. I don't believe in the (convenient) 1 gram of protein per pound dogma, and part of that is marketing to get you to use more protein powders so it runs out and you buy more. That is made up number and it's also for people trying to live the 24/7 BBing lifestyle or involved in strength.)

Protein shakes can also help if someone has trouble hitting the daily caloric intake goals.

Whey protein is the by-product of some dairy processing, which someone years found the idea that "hey," we can market this stuff. 

I do use Creating on an off, however. Currently, I'm off it.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Eat 5-6 small meals.


Or one large one. Or three medium-sized ones. Or...

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> Eat 5-6 small meals.
> 
> 
> Or one large one. Or three medium-sized ones. Or...


I should clarify: now, I don't eat 5-6 meals.

That is for serious people training for endurance or doing serious, scheduled lifting.

5-6 meals has nothing to do with more or less caloric intake. It's just the timing and keeping your metabolism going. 

I don't even count, but I probably eat 4 small meals per day.

(I am imbibing on beer again at night. Bloating, and intaking too many cals, but what the da $%$% for now.)

----------


## AntRobertson

> It's just the timing and keeping your metabolism going


That's a myth:

_[...] in an extensive review of literature, scientists at the French National Institute of Health and Medical Research looked at scores of studies comparing the thermic effect of food in a wide variety of eating patterns, ranging from 1-17 meals per day.In terms of 24-hour energy expenditure, they found no difference between nibbling and gorging. Small meals caused small, short metabolic boosts, and large meals caused larger, longer boosts, and by the end of each day, they balanced out in terms of total calories burned..._

Does Meal Frequency Affect Weight Loss, Metabolic Rate, and Appetite Control? | Muscle For Life

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> It's just the timing and keeping your metabolism going
> 
> 
> That's a myth:
> 
> _[...] in an extensive review of literature, scientists at the French National Institute of Health and Medical Research looked at scores of studies comparing the thermic effect of food in a wide variety of eating patterns, ranging from 1-17 meals per day.In terms of 24-hour energy expenditure, they found no difference between nibbling and gorging. Small meals caused small, short metabolic boosts, and large meals caused larger, longer boosts, and by the end of each day, they balanced out in terms of total calories burned..._
> 
> Does Meal Frequency Affect Weight Loss, Metabolic Rate, and Appetite Control? | Muscle For Life


Ant,

Like almost everything in exercise / diet / health there will not be agreement.

There are studies which show the opposite of what you're posting. 

Remember, I was talking about BBing, not regular people who exercise.

----------


## AntRobertson

> There are studies which show the opposite of what you're posting.


Then post them, because as far as I can tell the science on the matter is settled.

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> There are studies which show the opposite of what you're posting.
> 
> 
> Then post them, because as far as I can tell the science on the matter is settled.


Again, I'm referring to larger BBers who are making daily protein targets. Anabolism. Ronnie Coleman consumed 8,000 calories per day. He needed that just to exist. 

I've known people who would set their alarm at 2 AM so they could drink a Casein protein shake. 

I should not be mixing us - regular folks with people who are competing, whether amateur or pro.




> *How Frequent Is Frequent Enough?*
> Some simple math can help us here. When looking to *optimize anabolism* and satiety, the number meals you eat throughout the day should be a divisor of the total amount of calories you eat.
> 
> 
> *If you eat 3,000 calories per day, then breaking that into five 600 calorie meals would probably give you sufficient food to feel satisfied, while not demanding so much that you need to turn to lower quality foods in order to hit your per-meal calorie targets.* On the other hand, if you eat only 2,000 calories per day, eating five 400-calories meals is not a satiating option, but eating four 500-calorie meals would be more filling.
> 
> Each of these meals should contain a minimum of 30 grams of protein (the amount which research has shown is necessary to maximally stimulate protein synthesis). This pulse of protein can also be effectively spaced out and repeated throughout the day for the biggest increases in protein synthesis. If your calories are so low that you can't get 30 grams of protein at each meal, sprinkle on a little leucine or have a BCAA drink with your meal to cover your bases in the protein synthesis department.
> 
> Remember when planning these meals that size is directly connected to satiety, so don't make them too small to be filling. Not a big-time planner? You can still do this. Just eat a solid, protein-rich meal every 3-4 hours, and you'll be more or less on track.


Meal Frequency: Finding The Body Composition Sweet Spot

----------


## AntRobertson

That has nothing to do with metabolism, milky. In fact the article you linked to supports exactly what I've said: meal timing/frequency has no effect on metabolism.

Being a bodybuilder is irrelevant. Your metabolism is what it is.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I should not be mixing us - regular folks with people who are competing, whether amateur or pro.
> 
> Meal Frequency: Finding The Body Composition Sweet Spot


That link is from bodybuilding.com, dude. Hardly science.

----------


## Black Heart

I hear your points on the study.

But maintaining and building mass is by a set meal frequency and protein macros percntage.

That said, you are correct - that frequent meals don't increase metabolism according to my google.

I stand corrected and I do appreciate your info. It helps.

----------


## Steam

Not for metabolism but for health




> Why eating little and often is best
> 
> by HELEN FOSTER, Daily Mail
> 
> Breakfast was a bowl of cereal followed by a croissant and a banana at work. Lunch was a jacket potato at your desk; and come 3pm you had a bar of chocolate to tide you over.
> 
> By the time dinner came you were too tired to cook, so you had a bowl of soup or cereal and then at 10pm, made a cheese sandwich before bed. Welcome to 21st century Britain.
> 
> Research from market analysts Datamonitor has found that the average Briton doesn't have time to sit down for a big meal three times a day and, instead, is more likely to fit in five or six mini 'meals'.
> ...


Why eating little and often is best | Daily Mail Online

----------


## Sumbitch

today, finally got over the lethargy that's been keeping me out of the gym for the last couple of days. 

Chest and shoulders, in this order, for shits and grins:
machine lateral raise, 4 sets, pyramid up in weight, down in reps
Did I say I love this exercise?


dumb bell shoulder press 4 sets, pyramid up in weight, down in reps
dumb bell incline press, same, same
dumb bell flat bench flys, same, same
alternating arms flat bench press, same, same

like this:


shrugs using the the alternating arms flat bench press machine. I find a much more natural movement with the flat bench machine than using dumb bells, which I've done forever.

5 k run on the treadmill

Oh, and pre and post workout protein shakes: 24 grams protein, 130 calories, 2 grams sugar.

----------


## Black Heart

Thanks for sharing, wjblaney.

Seriously,

Why not use actual DBs for lateral side raises (sitting or standing) it hits the lateral delts much more effectively, IMO.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Why not use actual DBs for lateral side raises (sitting or standing) it hits the lateral delts much more effectively, IMO.


I would and have but with arthritis in the shoulder joints and heavy weights higher than parallel to the ground grind the joints quite painfully.

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> Why not use actual DBs for lateral side raises (sitting or standing) it hits the lateral delts much more effectively, IMO.
> 
> 
> I would and have but with arthritis in the shoulder joints and heavy weights higher than parallel to the ground grind the joints quite painfully.


Understood.


Yesterday, I did Back & Biceps.

(My gym moved, so there is still some equipment missing - T-bar for T-bar row and some other stuff.)
*
Back:*

Mid-row (bar machine) x 4
Lat pull down (narrow grip bars) x 4
Lat pull down long bar & cable x 1
One-arm DB bent-over raise x 3

*Biceps:*

Sitting alternate DB curls (heavy) x 4
Standing Barbell curl (moderate) x 3
Standing cable curl x 4 (mod to heavy, increasing pyramid)

Time 40 minutes.

----------


## Sumbitch

Had a fairly long (1hr, 10 min) run on the treadmill this morning. Alternating weight days but trying to run. even if only for a half an hour every day (e.g., yesterday lifted and ran for a half an hour). Feeling really wasted right now but have only rehydrated; haven't refueled yet. I'm one of those freaks who just can't schedule meals, even if it only consists of a protein shake after a workout, although that's the easiest excuse for eating I use, b/c I can always tell myself I need the hydration. Anyway, rest is as important as fuel and with enough of both I should be ready for arms and backs (sic) tomorrow.  :Smile:

----------


## nigelandjan

Hats off to you WJB for your excersise discipline . 

I reckon if I was retired and lived in Thailand I would be able to discipline myself into a routine , it would take time but  being a Taurus I just love nothing more than routine

----------


## Black Heart

^  WJB, wasted is a good term to use. Sounds like a lack of fuel, but also can be from a good solid workout.

I feel wasted right now.

Today was Leg Day.

I like hitting the legs really hard. (Good for T-levels w/ squatting and overall growth.)

I always start with Barbell squats - but a guy was using the rack when I arrived and he was doing lots of sets, so I tried the "Squat machine," the machine with the two pads over the shoulder. I set the bottom very low so I could be low and I noticed I could do more reps with heavy weight b/c I did not have the caution that I have with a barbell squat - not being able to complete the movement and then dropping the bar behind your head. I've never had to do that, but without a spotter (I don't ask people) I have to be careful. With this machine I just go all out, almost to failure.

Different movement a little, yes, but a good variation to the normal barbell squats.

*Legs*

Squat (machine) x 4
Calves - sitting calf raise 65 reps heavy
Calves - standing (smith bar on a step, moderate) 40+ reps. Total calf reps 100+
Ham curl (upward motion) x 4
*
Obliques:* side raise holding barbell plates x 3
*Abs* (ab machine) x 3


I usually finish legs with calves but there was a person using the equipment so I varied the routine. 

Time: about 46 minutes. 


Pre-workout meal: 3 whole eggs, and 3/4 cup of oats

Post-workout meal: 1/2 to 3/4 cup of oats with 2 large pieces of grilled chicken.

Fluid during workout: about 1.3 liters of water with electrolyte powder thrown in.

I sweated like mad. Very humid. I also got my heart beat rate quite high.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I sweated like mad. Very humid. I also got my heart beat rate quite high.


No air con in yur gym? Oh, the humanity!!!




> so I tried the "Squat machine,"


does it look something like this?


It's called a Smith machine and you can hook the bar bell on those clasps, or whatever you call them, at any point during the squat so no worry about dropping the bar bell.  :Smile:

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> I sweated like mad. Very humid. I also got my heart beat rate quite high.
> 
> 
> No air con in yur gym? Oh, the humanity!!!


There are token AC units very high up near the ceilings. Only 2 of them I think. There are many ceiling fans. I don't care about AC. I've been lifting for years without it. 




> so I tried the "Squat machine,"





> does it look something like this?
> 
> 
> It's called a Smith machine and you can hook the bar bell on those clasps, or whatever you call them, at any point during the squat so no worry about dropping the bar bell.


No, not a Smith Bar.

(I've been weight lifting for 30 years on and off. I took a weight lifting class in high school in 1985.  :Smile:  

To each their own, 

But I am DEAD SET AGAINST EVER SQUATTING ON A SMITH BAR.

It is NOT a natural motion and not good for the body, IMO. 

I see people squat on the smith, but that is anathema to me. 

I've always done Barbell Squats with a squat rack. 

Here's a photo of the machine I used today. First time ever, I've used one. My gyms have never had one until now.

And, you can go Ass to the Grass.


The person in the photo below has his feet planted at an angle. But I planted mine flat.

----------


## AntRobertson

This mornings work out was...




... a bit shit. Half-arsed it.

----------


## Sumbitch

the Lazy Boy, huh?

----------


## AntRobertson

Might as well have just sat in one for all the good this morning would have done mate. Had a severe case of the couldn't-be-focked's.

Oh well, tomorrow's a new day and all that.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Might as well have just sat in one for all the good this morning would have done mate. Had a severe case of the couldn't-be-focked's.
> 
> Oh well, tomorrow's a new day and all that.


Your gym have a sauna or steam room? That's always a good excuse.

----------


## AntRobertson

Unfortunately not. Way I felt this morning I doubt I could have been bothered dragging my sorry carcass into one anyway  :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

> Unfortunately not. Way I felt this morning I doubt I could have been bothered dragging my sorry carcass into one anyway


Probably happens to everybody. I know it happens to me a lot. And the answer is exercise is like eating: it doesn't matter how often you do it, or how much or how hard during any particular workout. What matter is you do enough of it within a specific period of time, say a week. I read a scientific article this week that said 3 moderate workouts of 20 minutes per week is enough. The harder or more often you add to that time, the greater the benefits. The worst thing is to get down on yourself.  There could be a lot of good reasons for your lethargy. If you don't feel like going to the gym: don't. You don't have to love it but when you go do the exercises that you usually like. Look around for support. Chances are you'll see guys either draggin' ass or pumpin' up a storm. They might stimulate your motivation. Here's a vid, if you like  Arthur who never ran out of motivation. What's  especially interesting is he narrates the video at his current age, discusses his philosophy while showing his workouts back in the day. 




Finally, if you live in LOS, pm me.

----------


## Black Heart

_Thanks WJB,

I watched the entire piece.

Good points on shocking the body. Arnold was a unique specimen. 

As I've said before, he had the narrow waist (like a lot of guys back then) and today the modern BBers just look grotesque with their bloated bellies from HGH and whatever else is in their cocktails. 

Arnold was one of a kind._ 

(Good advice on the 45 degree angle DB raise to hit the rear delts.)

----------


## Perota

> _
> 
> Good points on shocking the body. Arnold was a unique specimen. 
> 
> As I've said before, he had the narrow waist_


You guys make me laugh. What a gay thread ! It has nothing to do with fitness, it's all about physical appearance. This thread should be moved to the plastic surgery section, between boobs jobs and penis enlargement techniques.

----------


## Perota

> Unfortunately not. Way I felt this morning I doubt I could have been bothered dragging my sorry carcass into one anyway


Usually the worst I feel before going to the gym, the better I feel after. A two hours session including cardio, stretching, abs, about one hour boxing. But very little weight lifting. Weight lifting makes you bulky, stiff and slow, to be avoided unless you train specific muscles for a very specific task.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Weight lifting makes you bulky, stiff and slow, to be avoided unless you train specific muscles for a very specific task.


Yeah, that's a complete and utter myth I'm afraid.

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> Weight lifting makes you bulky, stiff and slow, to be avoided unless you train specific muscles for a very specific task.
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's a complete and utter myth I'm afraid.


In every debate there is two sides. On the one side is the "fitness" business (big money !!!), I'm not here to spread BS so google's your friend here. On the other side you have the boxing and fighting community. Here is a very good article that explains why lifting weights affects your fighting ability.  And it's true not only for boxing but also tennis and even golf ! Read it, it says it all.

Why Lifting Weights Won?t Increase Punching Power

----------


## AntRobertson

That article relates specifically to punching power and boxing and it doesn't say _don't_ lift weights. 

Scientifically lifting weights is more effective for fat loss than cardio. Empirically, I lift weights five times per week and I'm far from 'bulky, stiff and slow'. 

OK, I'm sometimes stiff and always slow but it has nothing to do with weights.  :Very Happy: 

There are two sides to every debate but there's only one set of facts.

----------


## Sumbitch

> You guys make me laugh. What a gay thread ! It has nothing to do with fitness, it's all about physical appearance. This thread should be moved to the plastic surgery section, between boobs jobs and penis enlargement techniques.


Don't call me a gay guy. And WTF do you know about lifting weights? I have a very serious physical malady (osteoarthritis) where I have been advised repeatedly that lifting weights is actually good for your knees and hips b/c it strengthens the tendons and muscles surrounding the joints. So contrary to common knowledge (which is not the same as scientific knowledge) weight lifting is a very healthful activity and exercise. And your classification of all posters on this thread who lift weights do so for narcissistic reasons is pure bs.

 :Bryce:

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> You guys make me laugh. What a gay thread ! It has nothing to do with fitness, it's all about physical appearance. This thread should be moved to the plastic surgery section, between boobs jobs and penis enlargement techniques.
> 
> 
> Don't call me a gay guy. And WTF do you know about lifting weights? I have a very serious physical malady (osteoarthritis) where I have been advised repeatedly that lifting weights is actually good for your knees and hips b/c it strengthens the tendons and muscles surrounding the joints. So contrary to common knowledge (which is not the same as scientific knowledge) weight lifting is a very healthful activity and exercise. And your classification of all posters on this thread who lift weights do so for narcissistic reasons is pure bs.


Sorry I didn't know about your condition, as a matter of principle I never pick on diminished people. Anyway I said " unless you train specific muscles for a very specific task" which seems to be what you're doing.

Also you seem to be very sensible about the gay thing. Nothing to be ashamed of.  People may joke about it but TD members are fairly open minded about alternative life style. I'm sure some can even help you with your coming out if needed.

----------


## Neverna

Lifting weights/weight training can most certainly help increase punching power. Even the article says the same! (but you may have missed it because of the way the article was written).  




> lifting weights actually helped me punch harder as a beginner. But the difference was only marginal, I was maybe 20% more powerful at best.

----------


## PlanK

And all those boxers lifting weights to make it to the higher weight divisions are doing because they...  um... want to get big and slow?

----------


## Perota

> Lifting weights/weight training can most certainly help increase punching power. Even the article says the same! (but you may have missed it because of the way the article was written).  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				 lifting weights actually helped me punch harder as a beginner. But the difference was only marginal, I was maybe 20% more powerful at best.


He says "as a beginner". It's a common beginner misguided opinion that punching "heavy" is good when actually "snapping" is what should be achieved.




> And all those boxers lifting weights to make it to the higher weight divisions are doing because they...  um... want to get big and slow?


As you say, to gain weight. Which basically proves my point, you don't lift weight to lose weight and you don't lift weight to get fit. Some people wants or needs to gain weight and it's better to gain muscular mass than fat, but that's a totally different matter.

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> Lifting weights/weight training can most certainly help increase punching power. Even the article says the same! (but you may have missed it because of the way the article was written).  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, I read it. It's another poorly written article. 

The title is: _Why Lifting Weights Won’t Increase Punching Power_

The first sentence is: _There’s a popular misconception that lifting HEAVY weights could increase punching power_. 

Further on it days: _lifting weights actually helped me punch harder as a beginner. But the difference was only marginal, I was maybe 20% more powerful at best_

It goes on to say something along the lines of... if you do such and such this way, it's not as good as doing something else. But actually fails to mention that there are other ways than the (wrong) way he mentions. 

What he should really have said is that lifting weights can help you increase punching power but make sure you go about it the right way, given the right way, then added his thoughts on "snapping" and other stuff to get even more powerful punches. 

He makes some good points and tips about punching technique but he also makes some basic mistakes (for example he focusses on lifting very heavy weights slowly, which is not the only way)... and his writing "style" is really annoying - by which I mean he writes like "Wow, everybody is doing it all wrong, now listen to me to do it all right". Too many words, too much BS, not accurate enough, not 'tight' enough.  

Lifting weights can help increase punching power. The initial explosion to get speed comes from your muscles. Muscles can be trained to be fast even with weights. And the final impact with the technique he described (his "snapping") needs the muscles to be contracted. Weak muscles at contraction/impact will be less effective than strong muscles. But as has been said, technique is also important, and I'll add that all-over body conditioning can also help deliver powerful punches.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Sorry I didn't know about your condition, as a matter of principle I never pick on diminished people. Anyway I said " unless you train specific muscles for a very specific task" which seems to be what you're doing


Apology not accepted. Since you inserted an insult ("diminished people") within the message it shows your insincerity.




> Also you seem to be very sensible about the gay thing. Nothing to be ashamed of. People may joke about it but TD members are fairly open minded about alternative life style. I'm sure some can even help you with your coming out if needed.


What's your problem, dude? Did you mean "sensitive" instead of "sensible"? As written, your put-down is a laughable shit post.




> As you say, to gain weight. Which basically proves my point, you don't lift weight to lose weight and you don't lift weight to get fit. Some people wants or needs to gain weight and it's better to gain muscular mass than fat, but that's a totally different matter.


People who want to lose body fat and gain lean muscle mass should also lift weights. And this quote is sheer and utter BS: 


> you don't lift weight to lose weight and you don't lift weight to get fit.


Get off of this thread, jackoff. Your comments deserve one more response  :Bsflag:

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> Sorry I didn't know about your condition, as a matter of principle I never pick on diminished people. Anyway I said " unless you train specific muscles for a very specific task" which seems to be what you're doing
> 
> 
> Apology not accepted. Since you inserted an insult ("diminished people") within the message it shows your insincerity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're right about "sensitive" and right about my insincere apology.

But that's about it.

If you think lifting weight makes you look good ... beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 








But sorry I can't help, you definitively look gay  ;-)



_

----------


## Perota

^




> _Thanks WJB,
> As I've said before, he had the narrow waist (like a lot of guys back then) and today the modern BBers just look grotesque with their bloated bellies from HGH and whatever else is in their cocktails. 
> _


So true. wjblaney definitively doesn't have the narrow waist  :smiley laughing:

----------


## Black Heart

Today I went to a gym closer to my apartment. Has almost everything my main gym has.

*Shoulders*

DB OH press (or Arnold Press) X 4
Upright Row (cable) X 4
Y-rope pull back standing (for rear delts, forgot name of the exercise) X 4
DB lateral side raise X 3

No Shrugs, because this gym is different and setup was not good for heavy DBs for this exercise (lack of a rack).

----------


## Perota

> Lifting weights can help increase punching power. The initial explosion to get speed comes from your muscles. Muscles can be trained to be fast even with weights. And the final impact with the technique he described (his "snapping") needs the muscles to be contracted. Weak muscles at contraction/impact will be less effective than strong muscles. But as has been said, technique is also important, and I'll add that all-over body conditioning can also help deliver powerful punches.


Better than lifting weight is plyometrics (exercises in which  muscles exert maximum force in short intervals of time, with the goal of  increasing power (speed-strength)- wikipedia).

Basic information here : Plyometrics Workout For Beginners | The Art of Manliness

*Benefits to muscles.* Physical power is the ability  to convert strength into speed as quickly as possible. In order to  increase your power, you need to increase and strengthen the muscle  fibers that are responsible for converting strength into speed. These  fibers are often referred to as fast-twitch fibers. Plyometric movements  can strengthen and even increase the number of fast-twitch fibers in  your muscles. The stronger the fast-twitch fiber, the faster the muscle  contraction.

*Benefits to tendons.* In order to increase the power  and speed of muscular movements, you need to increase the strength of  your tendons. Moreover, stronger tendons mean fewer injuries. Many men I  know have had to undergo surgery because they tore a tendon while  playing soccer or basketball. They might have been able to avoid these  injuries had they only worked on increasing strength and elasticity in  their tendons. Plyometrics strengthen your tendons and boost their  elasticity by placing stress on them in a controlled setting.

*Benefits to nervous system.* A final component in  increasing power and speed is your nervous system. Every time you  contract your muscles, a signal is sent from your brain to your muscles  via your neuromuscular system. The more efficiently your neuromuscular  system can transmit this signal, the faster you can contract and relax  your muscles, which in turn increases your athletic speed and power.  Plyometrics boosts this efficiency.

One can use weights too, but the routines are very different from the ones taught in fitness clubs and magazines.

----------


## AntRobertson

Seems like you've started with a conclusion (an incorrect one too: lifting weights makes you big and bulky) and are working backwards from there.

----------


## Sumbitch

*Backward Logic:*

*Proofs are discovered by working backwards: we get clear first about what we want to prove; then consider next what we would need to show, to get that result easily; then consider after that what prior step is needed to show this; and so on, until we arrive at something we can show straightaway.*

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Neverna
> 
> 
> Lifting weights can help increase punching power. The initial explosion to get speed comes from your muscles. Muscles can be trained to be fast even with weights. And the final impact with the technique he described (his "snapping") needs the muscles to be contracted. Weak muscles at contraction/impact will be less effective than strong muscles. But as has been said, technique is also important, and I'll add that all-over body conditioning can also help deliver powerful punches.
> 
> 
> Better than lifting weight is plyometrics (exercises in which  muscles exert maximum force in short intervals of time, with the goal of  increasing power (speed-strength)- wikipedia).
> 
> Basic information here : Plyometrics Workout For Beginners | The Art of Manliness


Plyometrics are good, too. I recommend them and I have done them (they are good for runners - you'll notice that all but one of the plyometric exercises on the link you provided are for the legs). Plyometrics can be done in conjunction with weight training.

----------


## Sumbitch

Perota, cat, why are you so down on lifting weights? If you don't explicitly put down an exercise(s), you choose to pretend the logic used by the antagonist supports your conclusion anyway OR you simply flame your antagonist. 

For lack of a better word, I'd call you stupidly stubborn.

----------


## Sumbitch

double post

----------


## Perota

> Seems like you've started with a conclusion (an incorrect one too: lifting weights makes you big and bulky) and are working backwards from there.


Actually all my posts above are based on personal experience. Long story short I used to go to the gym and was lifting weights among other things as everybody else when I had the chance to join a boxing club managed by an old European guy. For a while I went to both places, the gym and the boxing club, but I was feeling something was not smooth. So I asked the coach what kind of lifting weight routine he would advise for a trainee boxer. He just laughed at me and explained what I just repeated in the previous posts. 

And again from personal experience, losing 15 Kg in a 2 years period, going for being unable to run more than 500 m without getting dangerously close to apoplexy to routinely going through 2 hours boxing training sessions with people half my age, I can confidently tell you that lifting weight is by far the less efficient way to get in shape.

----------


## Neverna

It really depends on the "shape" you're in in the first place. If you're 15kg overweight, aerobic exercise like running will probably help you lose weight more easily than weight training - and it will also make you better at running, but if you're a skinny weak thing, doing some weight training will improve your "shape" and give you some strength - but running will make that skinny lad a better runner. Horses for courses. Depends where you are now, where you want to get to and how you want to get there.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I can confidently tell you that lifting weight is by far the less efficient way to get in shape.


What you are telling people is "be like me b/c I had these issues and follow my routine to FTFY" 

Your ego is unbearable.

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> I can confidently tell you that lifting weight is by far the less efficient way to get in shape.
> 
> 
> What you are telling people is "be like me b/c I had these issues and follow my routine to FTFY" 
> 
> Your ego is unbearable.


And you're a fucking retard whose opinion has no value whatsoever.

----------


## Perota

> It really depends on the "shape" you're in in the first place. If you're 15kg overweight, aerobic exercise like running will probably help you lose weight more easily than weight training - and it will also make you better at running, but if you're a skinny weak thing, doing some weight training will improve your "shape" and give you some strength - but running will make that skinny lad a better runner. Horses for courses. Depends where you are now, where you want to get to and how you want to get there.


If you want to gain weight, yes lifting weight has benefits, as said before it is better to gain muscular mass than fat.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Actually all my posts above are based on personal experience. Long story short I used to go to the gym and was lifting weights among other things as everybody else when I had the chance to join a boxing club managed by an old European guy. For a while I went to both places, the gym and the boxing club, but I was feeling something was not smooth. So I asked the coach what kind of lifting weight routine he would advise for a trainee boxer. He just laughed at me and explained what I just repeated in the previous posts. 
> 
> And again from personal experience, losing 15 Kg in a 2 years period, going for being unable to run more than 500 m without getting dangerously close to apoplexy to routinely going through 2 hours boxing training sessions with people half my age, I can confidently tell you that lifting weight is by far the less efficient way to get in shape.


Well that's great and all but, you know, science. It doesn't agree with you.

And I've seen people lose in excess of 15kg in three months whilst lifting weights. Hardly less efficient.

----------


## Sumbitch

> And you're a fucking retard whose opinion has no value whatsoever.


I don't hold any of my opinions close to heart either, which you repeatably do. Hence, you're a fucktard.

----------


## Sumbitch

> It really depends on the "shape" you're in in the first place. If you're 15kg overweight, aerobic exercise like running will probably help you lose weight more easily than weight training - and it will also make you better at running, but if you're a skinny weak thing, doing some weight training will improve your "shape" and give you some strength - but running will make that skinny lad a better runner. Horses for courses. Depends where you are now, where you want to get to and how you want to get there.


Neverna, you're one person whose opinions I have deep respect for. 

Same to you, Ant.

----------


## Perota

> Neverna, you're one person whose opinions I have deep respect for. 
> 
> Same to you, Ant.


wjblaney, you're pathetic  :rofl:

----------


## Steam

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> Actually all my posts above are based on personal experience. Long story short I used to go to the gym and was lifting weights among other things as everybody else when I had the chance to join a boxing club managed by an old European guy. For a while I went to both places, the gym and the boxing club, but I was feeling something was not smooth. So I asked the coach what kind of lifting weight routine he would advise for a trainee boxer. He just laughed at me and explained what I just repeated in the previous posts. 
> 
> And again from personal experience, losing 15 Kg in a 2 years period, going for being unable to run more than 500 m without getting dangerously close to apoplexy to routinely going through 2 hours boxing training sessions with people half my age, I can confidently tell you that lifting weight is by far the less efficient way to get in shape.
> 
> 
> Well that's great and all but, you know, science. It doesn't agree with you.
> 
> And I've seen people lose in excess of 15kg in three months whilst lifting weights. Hardly less efficient.


I'd be interested to know the stats behind these people you have claimed to see pal.

How did they shed in excess of 1500 calories of fat weight per day in addition to any fat weight replaced by gained muscle weight by lifting weights. 

Were they beginners or longtermers? Were they fit or unfit? Were they obese to begin with? Did they make any dietry changes?

----------


## AntRobertson

Where do you get '1,500 calories of fat weight per day' from?

Yes they made dietary changes, that's pretty much a given. And you can't/won't gain muscle at a calorie deficit - it's a physiological impossibility. Lifting weights is proven to be more efficient at 'fat burning' than cardio. You guys really need to get away from this notion that simply picking up weights equates to an automatic increase in muscle mass. It simply doesn't work like that.

As to the rest of your questions... How long is a piece of string?

----------


## Steam

> Where do you get '1,500 calories of fat weight per day' from?


15 kilos of fat is 135,000 stored calories. To shift that in 90 days requires a 1500 calories per day deficit.





> Yes they made dietary changes, that's pretty much a given.


So it's a wholly specious claim that you can attribute the "efficiency" of their weight loss to the weight lifting per your insinuation.




> And you can't/won't gain muscle at a calorie deficit - it's a physiological impossibility.


This says you are wrong Building Muscle in a Caloric Deficit: Is It Possible? | Virtuagym Blog and I agree with it because I've done it.




> Lifting weights is proven to be more efficient at 'fat burning' than cardio


 Diet is more efficient than either. The only way that lifting weights is more efficient at burning fat than cardio is by building and maintaining calorie hungry unnatural muscle mass.




> You guys really need to get away from this notion that simply picking up weights equates to an automatic increase in muscle mass. It simply doesn't work like that.


I've not said that or anything like it. If you are going to argue with someone who knows more about it than you at least argue with reality not your imagination pal.

----------


## AntRobertson

> 15 kilos of fat is 135,000 stored calories. To shift that in 90 days requires a 1500 calories per day deficit.


Those are some oddly specific numbers that you're coming up with. 

Plus I think your math is off there. 

The '1 lb bodyfat = 3,500 calories' is another of those widely held/spread myths (it's more like a range of about 2,800 - 3,700) at even at the high-end 33 lbs (15kg) x 3,700 is 122,100 not 135,000.



> So it's a wholly specious claim that you can attribute the "efficiency" of their weight loss to the weight lifting per your insinuation.


Hardly, I just assumed that a concurrent calorie deficit/diet was a given. Clearly I've overestimated the audience. You're not going to be losing weight regardless or what you do eating KFC by the bucket load are you.

What is specious is attributing the "efficiency" comment to me. Perota stated that 'lifting weight is by far the less efficient way to get in shape' and I simply pointed out that weights are more effective than cardio for weight-loss and therefore "hardly less efficient". Because it isn't.



> This says you are wrong Building Muscle in a Caloric Deficit: Is It Possible? | Virtuagym Blog and I agree with it because I've done it.


It also says: 

_"Is it possible to gain muscle when in a negative energy balance? The answer is yes, but the context and the situation are extremely important!"_ and goes on to cite two studies: one involving overweight police officers; and the other obese women. 

You can also drive your car when it's low on gas especially down a series of hills and declines. It's not very advisable though, particularly if you need to drive back up them.

Further: Can You Build Muscle in a Calorie Deficit?

_"In summary, some people can and do build a decent amount of muscle while theyre in a calorie deficit.

But its a phenomenon thats generally limited to people who are very overweight and have never lifted weights before, or those who are returning to exercise after a layoff, where muscle memory comes into play"._

Were you a fat cop, an obese woman, or just a regular fatty?



> I've not said that or anything like it. If you are going to argue with someone who knows more about it than you at least argue with reality not your imagination pal.


 :smiley laughing: 

Er someone who knows more about what exactly??

Never mind I shall just bow to your self-declared superior knowledge there, my special little buddy!

----------


## Perota

> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Steam
> 
> So it's a wholly specious claim that you can attribute the "efficiency" of their weight loss to the weight lifting per your insinuation.
> ...


Here is the main point of contention, at least for me. Don't forget the fitness industry is big business and their main objective is to sell their products, gym membership or food supplement. And, as you Ant, they "assume" that you will read the small prints that say if you want to *lose weight* the first and most important thing you should do is *go on diet*.

Then when you "scientifically" compare cardio and lifting weight, you (and the fitness industry) "assume" that you will lift weight continuously for a period of one hour or more when in reality people sit on  bench, do 12 reps, take a rest, do 12 more, move to the next machine ... if they work 20 mn in a one hour period it is the absolute maximum *. When you run one hour, you run one hour.

The problem is the science behind the "weight lifting is good for you" is the same as the science from the tobacco industry showing that smoking is not addictive and good for your health. It's not science, it's  marketing,


* If you insist on lifting weight I suggest you do 12 reps,  one minute push up, rest one minute, 12 reps, one minute burpees, rest  ... then continue by following the same pattern alternating reps with abs crunch, plank, rope jumping ... That really works.

----------


## AntRobertson

> And, as you Ant, they "assume" that you will read the small prints that say if you want to lose weight the first and most important thing you should do is go on diet.


It's not small print, it's plain common sense and logic.



> The problem is the science behind the "weight lifting is good for you" is the same as the science from the tobacco industry showing that smoking is not addictive and good for your health. It's not science, it's marketing,


Complete, utter, egregious codswallop.

----------


## kmart

> Originally Posted by AntRobertson
> 
> 
> Seems like you've started with a conclusion (an incorrect one too: lifting weights makes you big and bulky) and are working backwards from there.
> 
> 
> Actually all my posts above are based on personal experience. Long story short I used to go to the gym and was lifting weights among other things as everybody else when I had the chance to join a boxing club managed by an old European guy. For a while I went to both places, the gym and the boxing club, but I was feeling something was not smooth. So I asked the coach what kind of lifting weight routine he would advise for a trainee boxer. He just laughed at me and explained what I just repeated in the previous posts. 
> 
> And again from personal experience, losing 15 Kg in a 2 years period, going for being unable to run more than 500 m without getting dangerously close to apoplexy to routinely going through 2 hours boxing training sessions with people half my age, I can confidently tell you that lifting weight is by far the less efficient way to get in shape.


Unless you're training to be a competitive boxer within a specified weight class, (ie; younger than 35 yo), you can easily do both.
I boxed all my life from amateurs as a kid, to still training and sparring with younger guys at 50yo, and I use weights to maintain core and joint / tendon strength -without losing any flexibility.

----------


## Steam

> Originally Posted by Steam
> 
> 15 kilos of fat is 135,000 stored calories. To shift that in 90 days requires a 1500 calories per day deficit.
> 
> 
> Those are some oddly specific numbers that you're coming up with. 
> 
> Plus I think your math is off there. 
> 
> ...


Do you always talk down to people when they make a fool of your words?

Anyway get back to me on that when you've finished losing an argument with yourself about how much you know about other people's nutrition and exercise.



> I'm an expert and world authority on nutrition and exercise... When it comes to _my body_. Anyone else, largely no idea.


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## PlanK

> Your blood pressure must be through the roof.


Can I get an online diagnosis too?

Blood pressure, cholesterol, triglycerides. 


TIA

----------


## Sumbitch

> Can I get an online diagnosis too?
> 
> Blood pressure, cholesterol, triglycerides.


What about PSA, HIV, blood oxygen, BMI?

----------


## PlanK

^

Good thinking, them too.

----------


## Black Heart

_Workout I did this morning and today:_

Pre-workout meal. Pasta with Olive Oil (out of eggs). Bad PWO meal.


50 minutes later:


*Cardio*

40 minutes on treadmill. Incline 6.5 (high). HBP 133 to 140.

10 minutes on stationary exercise bike. HBP 130-133

Total: 50 minutes. 

Post workout meal about 30 minutes after cardio: 2 small burger (minus one side of a bun).

Walked for 25-30 minutes and bought a book.

1:10 minutes after the cardio post-workout meal:


*Lifting weights:*  Chest + Tris

*Chest:*

Cable crossover X 4 + 1 Ped deck (bench presses were occupied upon arrival).

Chest Press machine X 4 (and angle push with bars that move inward. A new movement for me and it hit my chest very well. Went to near failure on every set.

No DBs or BB work on chest today. 

*
Triceps:*

Smith Bar Close Grip bench press X 5

Overhead y-rope tricep push (standing) X 4

Push Down w/ bar & cable X 4

Dips (machine) X 2

Total reps for Tris were at least 90, then I lost count. 


15 months ago I started increased my weight and reps for biceps and triceps and they have responded well and grown. For years, I did not focus on my arms, and only did about 60 reps with moderate weight.

*I always hit forearms on Back + bicep day, and I've always had the genetics for very large forarms. (They might be too large). Same with my calves. I hit my calves for 80 reps very heavy and 100+ reps when using upper moderate weight.

The reason why I could do a cardio session of 50 minutes, then walk, and then lift  for 45 minutes was because I had the day off from work. 

Lifting post workout meal was 2 pieces of chicken - however, no carbs.

----------


## Sumbitch

> For years, I did not focus on my arms, and only did about 60 reps with moderate weight.


I just looked up Wiki's definition of beach muscles: 


> These include the major muscles of the chest, shoulders, quadriceps, abdominals and biceps.


 I guess they assume you always lay on your back. 

However, in California, we refer to the beach muscles as being just the chest and arms. How could you, in good conscience, ignore your arms for so long?  :smiley laughing: 




> He'd argue that Wrong was Right and since Wright built an aeroplane Air China was (W)righting all the Wongs of this world.


This is first time in my career as a Teachdoors' post that I've actually used the following smiley:  :smiley laughing:

----------


## Black Heart

> Originally Posted by Black Heart
> 
> For years, I did not focus on my arms, and only did about 60 reps with moderate weight.
> 
> 
> I just looked up Wiki's definition of beach muscles: 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hee-hee.

I don't go to the beach, I hate California, and my arms are almost ALWAYS covered by sleeves.

Mate, it's about me - not what others see (and think).  :Smile:

----------


## Sumbitch

> Mate, it's about me - not what others see (and think).


Just like Ant said earlier, if he doesn't mind me rephrasing it since I can't find the specific post: "I kinow everything about exercise and nutrition, when it comes to me. I know nothing about it when it comes to everybody else."

And I do recall someone else inappropriately rephrasing that quote and don't believe Ant flushed it down the toilet, where it is still swirling around counterclockwise, his toilet being in the southern hemisphere.

----------


## Black Heart

Today: *Leg day*

Short, but intense session (due to time constraints).

1. Squat (machine). X 4 Heavy.

I will do this machine for 2-3 weeks before going back to the barbell squat b/c I can feel it hitting my legs in a good and different way. 


2. Ham Curl (machine) upward motion X 4. 

I like the upward motion instead of downwar b/c of the gravity.


3. Sitting calf raise (Heavy) 65 reps.

3a. Standing calf raise (step w/ smith bar) 40 reps

Total reps 105. 


Time 29 minutes.

----------


## Black Heart

Today: *Back & Biceps & Forearms*

Stil missing the T-bar row in my gym's move. So, a replacement.


Back:

1.  Mid-row machine X 4 (rep range 12)

2. Standing Push Down (Cable) X 4 (rep range ~10-11)

2b. Low Seated Row (cable) as a test X 1 (will do these next day. This exercise hit some good muscle groups. 

3. Lat Pull down (bar) X 4 (Palms in/down) - this exercise always taps my biceps well and gets them pumped up. 


*Forearms*

Standing Cable reverse curls X 3. 


*Biceps:* - lower weight a little bit today for higher rep range this time.

1. Seated DB curl (25 lb DBs) X 4

2. Seated Barbell Preacher curls X 4

3. Standing cable Curls X 4 - 5th set upper 21s to failure.

4. Hammer Curls X 2 (to hit the forearms).


Time: 44 minutes.


Pre-Work out meal: 3 whole eggs omellette, no cheese no add-ons, 1/2 cup of oats. 


Post workout meal #1: 2 pieces of grilled chicken with 1/2 cup of oats.


I do not like doing a glycemic spike for post workout meals. It still bloats me, and I feel oats are best for me.

----------


## PeeCoffee

The important point is to work out without doing harm to your body. Once you reach 60 you will fully understand if your exercise routine was correct for your body holistically. Some fortunate people are just genetically gifted with good health.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Once you reach 60 you will fully understand if your exercise routine was correct for your body holistically.


Would you care to elaborate on this claim? Because as stated, it implies an acquisition of knowledge based on age rather than experience (number of years exercising).

----------


## Black Heart

> The important point is to work out without doing harm to your body. *Once you reach 60 you will fully understand if your exercise routine was correct for your body* holistically. Some fortunate people are just genetically gifted with good health.


100% False.

Where did you experience or read this? 


After 1 year in general (which is still beginner stage - Beginners have 1-3 years experience),

A person should know and will know (unless they are obtuse) what works and does ot work for their body.

This includes:

diet
Workout regimens / rep ratios / number of sets / and different programs (e.g. reverse pyramids, power, rep-range shock, super-sets. and pre and post workout meals.

within 4 years, a person should know very well - if they are attentive - what is good for their body "holistically."  This term, I don't like. 

By the time a person is 60 it is far too late - unless - they first started exercising at say, 56-59 years of age.

----------


## PlanK

Shit!

I been doing this for decades and all I know is that you gotta change things up just to keep it interesting.  Whatever you train, the body adapts.

Boredom is a big factor too.  Same diet/regime will do your head in.

----------


## Sumbitch

Yep. It's nice to have a sport that you love and can leave the gym behind for. Lots of mountain bikers here in CM.

----------


## Sumbitch

that Steam has been has been permanently banned (except for the DH,  I guess). Everybody green Ant for the knockout!

----------


## Black Heart

Today: *Shoulders.*

Over-head Press Machine (only, no DBs today) x 4

Upright rows (cable) X 4

Y-rope standing pull back (for rear delts) X 4

DB Later Side Raise X 4

DB shrugs 115 reps


*Obliques*

Side raise with plates X 4 


Time: 47 minutes.


Today was "4 set day."  I put the weight at being able to do 10-11 reps each set, except for the last which was usually 9 reps.


I'll do more variation/differnt exercises next time for shoulders.

----------


## Sumbitch

Legs yesterday, longish run (1+hr on the treadmill today). Almost only worth doing this shit if I was paid for it. Almost. I guess that's why there are pros.

----------


## Black Heart

I'm still working out, with some variation of specific exercises.

No news from me to ad, but I'd like to read anyone else's.

----------


## Black Heart

After taking a break for over a month for Winter I started back on Feb 20 and lifting 4+ days per week.

After starting and taking every 2nd day off it was Legs, Chest + Back, Shoulders, and today, Bi/Tri/Forearms.

I'm going to try a different diet with more of a pre-workout meal and less of a post-workout meal.

Also, I will reduce protein intake and not "chase" as much protein as in the previous 18 months.

----------


## ENT

edit...

----------


## AntRobertson

Wrong thread you tin foil hat wearing nutter.

----------


## ENT

edit....

----------


## Black Heart

Let's continue on !

----------


## Black Heart

Today was shoulder day.

But I did something different.

Last night at about 7 pm after a few beers, I ate a HUGE meal of Pad Thai w/ chicken. (I'm not in Thailand, kind of wish I was). The cook was an American of Thai descent and does this at a local restaurant.

I ate too much and had too many carbs.

I woke up at about 8 AM this morning and I was still feeling full.

I was not hungry. 

So, after a black coup of coffee I went to my gym for treadmill cardio for 25 minutes with a HBP ranging from 124-133 on an empty stomach.

Then, I ate my carb protein meal, ran errands for 35 minutes and then went back to the gym to do shoulders, still feeling too full. I should have waited longer, but b/c of my schedule I could not let the food digest more. 

My pre-workout meal was small, however.

*Shoulders:*

Overhead press (machine) x 4 
DB Lateral Side Raises X 3 (felt pain in upper left arm, so did not do 4 sets).
Y-rope standing pull back (over the head for rear delts).
Upright Row (cable) X 4

Skipped Shrugs for lat b/c of a lack of time.

Time: about 32 minutes.

----------


## Black Heart

I just had my pre-workout meal: 3 whole eggs in an omellete with nothing added and 3/4 cup of oats.

Now, waiting.

This is a moderate to light breakfast so I'll start lifting after 70 minutes after this meal.

Today will be Arm day.

After I blow my arms to oblivion I'll be back for a report.

----------


## Black Heart

OK, boys and girls.

I'm back.

I won't post the exercises b/c that's redundant: Bis, Tris, and forearms today.

----------


## Black Heart

Worth starting a record again. It helps me.

I'm doing lift - day off - lift.

After resting yesterday after arms, today (Tuesday, March 8, 2016) will be leg day.

----------


## Neverna

How do you like these abdominal exercises?

----------


## AntRobertson

I've pretty much stopped directly working out abs. Waste of time/energy in my opinion.

----------


## Black Heart

> I've pretty much stopped directly working out abs. Waste of time/energy in my opinion.


It's still good to hit the addominus and obliques once per week.

They need to be strong for core exercises and core strength.

----------


## AntRobertson

> They need to be strong for core exercises and core strength.


Core exercise work abs as well, others too.

That's my point: "... stopped _directly_ working out abs".

----------


## Lukey1979

> How do you like these abdominal exercises?


Hanging toes to bar,  Hanging leg raises,  Hanging window wipers etc are very intense calisthenic exercises. You won't see too many gym goers cracking these very often because they are intermediate-advanced  bodyweight exercises,  unlike the simple and often ineffective matt routines you see people doing. 
Exercising like this will develop serious core (not only abdominal) strength.    :Smile:

----------


## Neverna

> they are intermediate-advanced  bodyweight exercises,


That's what I thought for the hanging "window-wiper" exercise. When I was very fit (in my younger days), they'd have been a great addition to my training. At my current level of fitness, I doubt I could do even one rep!

----------


## Sumbitch

cheers, y'all!

----------


## Lukey1979

> Originally Posted by Lukey1979
> 
> 
>  they are intermediate-advanced  bodyweight exercises,
> 
> 
> That's what I thought for the hanging "window-wiper" exercise. When I was very fit (in my younger days), they'd have been a great addition to my training. At my current level of fitness, I doubt I could do even one rep!


You could work yourself up to them i reckon. Start off with leg raises on the matt, work up to: Parallel bar Knee raises, hanging knee raises, hanging leg raises, toes to bar, window wipers etc. 

Once you are comfortable with 7-10 reps, then you can move on to a harder exercise.

----------


## Neverna

I'm going to do that. My abs need some work.

----------


## Neverna

I've just completed day one of my flab to abs routine. Sit ups, leg raises and even some mini "window wipers" - all done on a mat. 

I'm hoping for a six-pack in December.  :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

> I'm hoping for a six-pack in December.


Ummm, yeah, about that...  :Very Happy:

----------


## Neverna

It's my Christmas wish, Ant. Don't spoil it. Santa might be generous this year.   :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

> It's my Christmas wish, Ant. Don't spoil it. Santa might be generous this year.


That fat bastard ain't gonna bring you abs he's a spiteful focker!  :Very Happy: 

Seriously though - and I think I'm preaching to the choir anyways - but all the ab exercises in the world will give you a great set but you won't be able to see them unless your diet is sorted too. You can't spot reduce fat and unless your body fat % is low enough they will be invisible. Plus, genetically speaking, you're stuck with what you got anyway as you can't shape the muscle only define it.

That's largely why I don't bother anymore. I have abs but they're probably about as defined as they will ever be. I tried for a while and my abs stayed the same, the only difference was all the veins started appearing / protruding (and that's about as freaky looking as it probably sounds)

----------


## Neverna

> Seriously though - and I think I'm preaching to the choir anyways - but all the ab exercises in the world will give you a great set but you won't be able to see them unless your diet is sorted too. You can't spot reduce fat and unless your body fat % is low enough they will be invisible.


Yes, I need to lose a few pounds of fat too. I'm working on that too but it is the most difficult part for me at the moment. 




> Plus, genetically speaking, you're stuck with what you got anyway as you can't shape the muscle only define it.


If that's the case, I should be OK because I used to have a cracking six-pack. I just want to see it again.  :Smile:

----------


## AntRobertson

> If that's the case, I should be OK because I used to have a cracking six-pack. I just want to see it again.


Cool beans, it's great to have a goal and I wish you the best in your endeavor...







... and hope you aren't currently holding a half-eaten pie!  :Very Happy:

----------


## NZdick1983

Ant is right.. can't spot reduce.. you lose fat all over your body when you use more calories than you consume (even from your face). 

If you could spot reduce, then chewing gum on one side of your mouth - would result in fat loss from that side... ya get me?

That being said, I did read an article last year somewhere - that said spot reducing was possible (I know I'm contradicting myself)... I will try to find that article...

But generally speaking... yup.. spot reducing is a myth.. sit up till the cows come home, but if you don't get you diet right, nothing is gonna happen except tighter ab muscles under all that lard...

remember diet is 80% of the battle.. exercise/rest is the other 20%

----------


## ENT

Agreed.

Cut out sugars/carbs as much as possible and eat more veg, fruit, nuts, whole grain bread and fish instead of meat. Whey is a good all round protein, and some eggs and a little soft cheese like feta was OK too. 

2 years ago I lost around 5 kg of fat and replaced it with 5kg muscle over 5 months exercising half an hour or so a day using weights, resistance band, hand grips and an exercycle with an hour of brisk walking a day.

Got blood sugar levels down, LDL down, HDL up, BP finally at 110/70, pulse at 65.

Mega dosing with Vit B3 was key to losing a lot of the LDL as my liver produces heaps.

Just went for another series of blood tests, kidneys, liver, lipids sugar etc, the lot.
All A OK but BP was up to 120/80, so was LDL after 18 months of less exercise and eating more carbs.

Back on track again, diet re-adjusted, more exercise, lots of walking.

Yup, and rest, essential, along with a balanced pH of 7< 8, necessary for optimum metabolism.

----------


## PlanK

> That being said, I did read an article last year somewhere - that said spot reducing was possible (I know I'm contradicting myself)


Due to the effect of hormones.  Some training methods will produce more growth hormone/testosterone/whatever else hormone, so theoretically if you had moobs it would be possible to target that testosterone-specific training.  I don't know if that works in practice, haven't heard of any actual studies that show tailored results results like that work.  It would be difficult to get two obese twins and test it and even then it would just show what we already know: hormones affect the body in different ways.

----------


## ENT

Lower testosterone and higher oestrogen levels in males = moobs.
Beer increases oestrogen levels. while Vit D, along with tuna, eggs, beans, whole grains and all dark green leafy veges, especially the growing tips and reproductive parts of all plants and animals boost testosterone levels.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Cut out sugars/*carbs* as much as possible and eat more *veg, fruit, nuts, whole grain bread* and fish instead of meat

----------


## ENT

^ Aside from consuming too many carbs without burning them off through hours of strenuous exercise, your belly and back fat problem may be inherited, fatty liver syndrome, where the liver produces excessive levels of LDL cholesterol which not only makes you fat but also clogs up your arteries along with high calcium levels in the blood, so raising your BP with all its attendant problems.

The only methods I've heard of for reducing that kind of LDL production level and keeping HDL at healthy levels is through using statins, or as I did, by taking between 3 < 6 gm/day of Vit B3, (on prescription along with liver toxicity blood tests every six weeks) as I did.

Trans fats, in d.airy, marge various oils and especially in fast foods will also send your LDL levels up.

Meat will also turn into glycol in the liver, then into glucose, so there's absolutely no need for sugars and refined carbs in any form

Best carbs are from fruit, nuts, seeds, grains and veges.

Go to CM Maharaj hospital (no appointment needed) where you can get specific blood tests and a chest x-ray (will show if heart is enlarged or not, along with heart/aorta calcium buildup  levels and pulmonary obstruction) for between Bt 1,000 < Bt 2,000, depending on how many tests and which tests you ask for on the form you fill in at reception. You'll get the blood test results that day if you go early enough, pick up the X-ray results a couple of days later and for an extra Bt 50 you get a kindly senior doctor explain it all for you.

Get your BP measured also, as you're now 40+ yoa and have already accumulated an unhealthy plaque buildup.

----------


## AntRobertson

Crickey you post a load of bollocks.

Google _isn't_ always your friend, bENT.

----------


## Sumbitch

> Ant is right.. can't spot reduce.. you lose fat all over your body when you use more calories than you consume (even from your face).


Ant knows of what he writes.

When fit people quit working out, except for walking, for up to a month or more, maybe due to an injury or surgery or just to fully recuperate mentally and physically from years of training, they don't spot _gain_ either. Then the weight gain is also spread evenly. And that can be a reward for thinking "overall" when working out.   :Wink:

----------


## ENT

> Crickey you post a load of bollocks.
> 
> Google _isn't_ always your friend, bENT.


Your problem's compounded by being in denial of your medical condition, so I can only assume that you'll just let yourself get sicker as you lose control of your metabolism.

Getting fat at forty's a BIG danger sign, as that's the age arteriosclerosis really starts with calcium laden LDL cholesterol building up plaque in your aorta, heart and arteries.

In the limb extremities, numbness is often a sign of such, so take care, precious, life's too short to waste.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Your problem's compounded by being in denial of your medical condition


Oh great, so now you've gone an given me a medical condition. Thanks.

Pray tell though Dr. bENT, Google MD, how exactly did you diagnose this medical condition? Is it the way I type or something?

----------


## ENT

Sort of, and by what you've posted about your physical condition and your age.

Like I said go get a blood check done, it's  inexpensive in CM, and you won't regret it.

What's your BMI, close to or  higher than 32? If so, check your waist to height ratio, it should be  no more than 1 : 2, ie. 36" waist : 6' in height as an optimum.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Sort of, and by what you've posted about your physical condition and your age.


Ahh, well that explains it then.

As per usual it comes down to your inability to read and comprehend plus a dash of your usual attempt to superimpose your drivel onto objective reality (i.e. just making shit up). 



> What's your BMI, close to or higher than 32?


BMI is an outmoded and effectively useless measurement for body composition purposes, bENT. 

Don't they teach you anything at Google Medical School??

----------


## ENT

BMI's a valid determinant of bulk, not fat, and bone density ie big boned or not comes into considering BMI.

The other determinant of waist to height ratio is better at figuring out how 'fat' you are.

----------


## AntRobertson

> BMI's a valid determinant of bulk, not fat


But you've just been arsing on that according to your online diagnosis I'm fat. So there's the other usual bENT input: the self-contradiction.



> and bone density ie big boned or not comes into considering BMI


Great so like I said it's practically worthless as a measurement of body composition then.

And 'big boned', effectively a myth bENT. Google Medical School eh!

----------


## Cold Pizza

^^^ and ^^

BMI is outdated and should not even be used.

Body fat % is what matter.

Water static testing (rare and probably expensive) or calipers, or....

look in the mirror naked.

BMI is a joke. People with lots of LBM (lean body mass) who are muscular but have low body fat, will score high, and sometimes even "obese" on the BMI.

----------


## AntRobertson

> BMI is outdated and should not even be used.
> 
> Body fat % is what matter.
> 
> Water static testing (rare and probably expensive) or calipers, or....
> 
> look in the mirror naked.
> 
> BMI is a joke. People with lots of LBM (lean body mass) who are muscular but have low body fat, will score high, and sometimes even "obese" on the BMI.


... That feeling when even Barbara makes more sense than ENT.  :Confused: 

But credit where it's due, well said. Spot on that is.

----------


## NZdick1983

Muscle weighs more than fat... the more muscle you have on your frame, the more calories you will burn (even at rest) and the easier you will keep lean.

Hence always good to combine weight training - with aerobic exercise. If you do your weights prior to say, running, your body will use more fat reserve for energy which will speed up the fat loss process.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Muscle weighs more than fat... the more muscle you have on your frame, the more calories you will burn (even at rest) and the easier you will keep lean.


[Pedant Mode On]

Well, a kilogram of muscle weighs the same as a kilogram of fat doesn't it.

[Pedant Mode Off]  :Very Happy: 

But yeah also spot on, muscle is efficient at burning calories.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
> 
> BMI is outdated and should not even be used.
> 
> Body fat % is what matter.
> 
> Water static testing (rare and probably expensive) or calipers, or....
> 
> look in the mirror naked.
> ...


Half my brain tied behind my back....just to make it even.  :Yup:

----------


## Neverna

Muscle takes up less space than fat so 10kg of muscle on a body will look smaller than 10kg of fat. 



http://fitness.extremebodyshaping.co...Fitness-Fact-6

----------


## Cold Pizza

BTW, boys and girls

I arms today:

Tris
Bis 
Forearms.


*BOOM!*

----------


## Storekeeper

^ Cold Pizza ... You do realize every time you change your posting nick you re-set the counter on how many century threads you have, right? You currently have ZERO ...  :Smile:

----------


## Cold Pizza

> ^ Cold Pizza ... You do realize every time you change your posting nick you re-set the counter on how many century threads you have, right? You currently have ZERO ...


*No!*


And today I'm taking a day off from training.

Yesterday, I hit my legs hard core:

20 min of cadio on the bike at HBP 120-122. 

Squats X 4
Hamstring Curl (downward motion) X 4
Leg Extension X 4
Sitting calf raises 55 reps
Standing smith bar calf raises 53 reps

Total calf reps 108

----------


## Cold Pizza

Well, it's Sunday, let's have a little introspection and fun.

It's a Yank thing (sorry) but I suppose some of you on this thread have heard of "Planet Fitness." 500 nationwide locations, starting at $9.99 per month to $20 per month depending on the special going on at the time.

Former body builder started the company.

Planet Fitness has been on the news b/c of kicking people out and banning them for breathing hard (not grunting) and even slightly dropping the weight.

Over-head presses are not allowed. Planet fitness claims that this exercise "intimidates" other members.

There are bagels at the reception and pizza parties.

There are no squat racks. 

The owner is wisely tapping into a niche market of people that don't really like workout much, don't have serious goals, and don't want to improve. 

These members in general are also intimidated or "afraid" of going to gyms.

Here's a video sent in by a TD member. Eating pizza while using the back extension machine.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Some more TD members in action:

----------


## Cold Pizza

Check this guy out. He's cut like a f*ck.

You can go to 1:40 if you want to see him right a way.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Death to pussy gyms. Burn in hell:

----------


## Cold Pizza

A series news story.

will add later

----------


## Cold Pizza

Some good photos.

Get your dogs on!

Hit the gym!

----------


## Cold Pizza

*We've all experienced felling better mentally while working out consistently, but there is a new scientific discovery: cathespin B.*

Exercise triggers brain cell growth and improves memory, scientists prove

*Aerobic exercise produces a protein called  cathepsin B which travels to the brain and triggers new brain cell growth* 
 Sarah Knapton, science editor 
23 JUNE 2016 • 7:26PM

*Exercising may help boost memory because it triggers a protein which boosts brain cell growth, scientists believe.*

For several years, researchers have noticed that aerobic exercise, of the kind which gets the heart pumping, also appears to improve memory and learning. But nobody knew how.

*Now researchers at the National Institute on Ageing in the US have discovered that when muscles exercise they produce a protein called cathepsin B which travels to the brain and triggers neuron growth.*

The team has also shown that the levels of the protein soars when humans exercise.

"Overall, the message is that a consistently healthy lifestyle pays off,” said senior author Dr Henriette van Praag, a neuroscientist at the National Institute on Aging in the United States.

“We did a screen for proteins that could be secreted by muscle tissue and transported to the brain, and among the most interesting candidates was cathepsin B.

*“Moreover, in humans who exercise consistently for four months, better performance on complex recall tasks, such as drawing from memory, is correlated with increased cathepsin B levels.”*

Exercise triggers brain cell growth and improves memory, scientists prove

----------


## Cold Pizza

*Here is a good piece by Lui Marco (who I like) on the tragedy of Jean Pierre Fux from Switzerland.

As I've said before, I don't like the "monster mass freak with distended bubble guts because of HGH.  

However....Jean-Pierre Fux was considered by many to be the next Mr. Olympia. He was a contender and some thought he could compete against Dorian Yates. 

He was doing a photo shoot on a monster heavy squat with a photo shoot with Flex magazine in 2002.

In a flash of a second, he destroyed his legs and his career ended.*

First, Lui Marco's comments on squatting, the devastation of a squat injury and his comments about Jean-Pierre Fux.




Jean-Pierre Fux and his injury.

----------


## Cold Pizza

_Got your (endurance) workout in today? I'm heading in to do my cardio in an hour. Yesterday was Back + Biceps, today only cardio, and tomorrow Chest + Triceps._

*Can endurance exercise SLOW ageing? Intense aerobic training 'prevents cells from shrinking and breaking over time'*

[B]Belgian study found exercise protected DNA from wear-and-tear
Endurance training stimulated telomeres to grow longer
Telomeres are the protective caps blocking our DNA from harm as we age
Over time telomeres naturally shorten, causing our cells to age
If this study is correct, aerobic exercise could delay that process

If anything is going to inspire you to get to the gym, this might be it.
*Intense aerobic exercise could slow down the ageing process, a new study claims.*

*As we age, the protective caps on each strand of our DNA wear down and shorten.
But new research has found endurance training protects those caps - called telomeres - from shortening.*

It suggests such physical activity produces chemicals that strengthen and lengthen telomeres - thereby maintaining our youthfulness for longer.


Read more: Can endurance exercise SLOW ageing? | Daily Mail Online

----------


## ENT

> _Got your (endurance) workout in today? I'm heading in to do my cardio in an hour. Yesterday was Back + Biceps, today only cardio, and tomorrow Chest + Triceps._
> 
> *Can endurance exercise SLOW ageing? Intense aerobic training 'prevents cells from shrinking and breaking over time'*
> 
> [B]Belgian study found exercise protected DNA from wear-and-tear
> Endurance training stimulated telomeres to grow longer
> Telomeres are the protective caps blocking our DNA from harm as we age
> Over time telomeres naturally shorten, causing our cells to age
> If this study is correct, aerobic exercise could delay that process
> ...


It works.

----------


## ENT

> *We've all experienced felling better mentally while working out consistently, but there is a new scientific discovery: cathespin B.*
> 
> Exercise triggers brain cell growth and improves memory, scientists prove
> 
> *Aerobic exercise produces a protein called  cathepsin B which travels to the brain and triggers new brain cell growth* 
>  Sarah Knapton, science editor 
> 23 JUNE 2016 • 7:26PM
> 
> *Exercising may help boost memory because it triggers a protein which boosts brain cell growth, scientists believe.*
> ...


Fact.

I did a 'lifestyle adjustment" program two years ago and have never felt better.
Exercised every day, ate less animal protein and carbohydrates, zero processed foods, and heaps of raw nuts seeds grains, veges and fruit, with active yoghurt, very little cooked foods. Occasionally eggs, an ounce or two of meat or fish, once or twice a week, got to keep protein levels up.
Needless to say, no smoking and little alcohol vastly boosts energy levels also.

Whatever, keep urine p/H at 7 or thereabouts, eat lotsa greens (parsley, coriander, spinach, chard, cabbage), carrots, tomatos, garlic, etc. to keep your body's metabolism at optimum. Add chili and ginger to that.

Meat, sugar, alcohol, fats, cheeses, breads, pastries, pasta, rice, etc lower your p/H to undesirable sickness fostering acid levels.

Quick fix for low p/H is a teaspoonful of bicarbonate of soda in a glass of milk or water,...a great antacid also.

----------


## Neverna

Intense aerobic training? How intense can it really be if it is still "aerobic"?   :Confused: 








Oh, the Daily Mail. Sorry. Carry on. 

 ::chitown::

----------


## Lukey1979

> Fact.
> 
> I did a 'lifestyle adjustment" program two years ago and have never felt better.
> Exercised every day, ate less animal protein and carbohydrates, zero processed foods, and heaps of raw nuts seeds grains, veges and fruit, with active yoghurt, very little cooked foods. Occasionally eggs, an ounce or two of meat or fish, once or twice a week, got to keep protein levels up.
> Needless to say, no smoking and little alcohol vastly boosts energy levels also.
> 
> Whatever, keep urine p/H at 7 or thereabouts, eat lotsa greens (parsley, coriander, spinach, chard, cabbage), carrots, tomatos, garlic, etc. to keep your body's metabolism at optimum. Add chili and ginger to that.
> 
> Meat, sugar, alcohol, fats, cheeses, breads, pastries, pasta, rice, etc lower your p/H to undesirable sickness fostering acid levels.
> ...


Ideal.

----------


## ENT

Cheers. I'm happy with my lifestyle, food always tastes good, sleep is wonderful, clear lungs and head all the time, high energy levels and stamina.

Added vitamins and minerals help, great to keep balanced.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Here is a good workout video demonstration. I'm not putting up b/c this guy is huge, but because these are good exercises and 3 of these exercises, he uses a different but better form: 

*Arms (Bis and Tris):*

1. Cable Isolation curl

2. Declining (leaning back on the adjustable chair) DB curls. Never heard of doing it this way!

3. Zottman Curls (I used to do them and will start again when my elbow injury heals).

4. Standing Overhead Rope Extension (cable)

5. Dips (machine). Notice how he sits forward and his shoulders and arms are behind him. 

Here is this informative look:

----------


## Cold Pizza

Victor Martinez (who the judges robbed when he beat Cutler hands down but they gave it to Cutler).

Here he is doing shoulders exercises for all 3 delts.

----------


## Neverna

> 2. Declining (leaning back on the adjustable chair) DB curls. Never heard of doing it this way!


I did some yesterday and I can certainly feel today that they gave my biceps a wake up call.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
> 
> 
> 2. Declining (leaning back on the adjustable chair) DB curls. Never heard of doing it this way!
> 
> 
> I did some yesterday and I can certainly feel today that they gave my biceps a wake up call.


Yes I did Chest + Tris yesterday, and it was a good session b/c I'm sore all around.

I did 80 reps for Tris:

1. Dips

2. Y-rope, overhead pull

3. bar-cable pushdowns


*I usually start with smith bar close-grip bend press but someone was using it and I did not want to wait.

When I add the CG smith bar press I get 100+ reps for Tris.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Here is James Tiny Vest recording his Upper Back and Lat workouts.

He uses a lot of cables, and also does a wide grip Upright Row on a Smith bar to his his medial head on his lats.

Very informative video. I'll incorporating some of these cable exercises, replacing levels and DB and BBs.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^You're sooooooooooooooooooooooooo full of shit.

You just look for language learning threads, exercise threads and anything else and then incorporate it into your pathetic fantasy world.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> ^You're sooooooooooooooooooooooooo full of shit.
> 
> You just look for language learning threads, exercise threads and anything else and then incorporate it into your pathetic fantasy world.


Having another bad day, huh.  :Smile: 

Tomorrow, I'm going to do some of the exercises Tiny uses in these vids above.

I'll be doing back and biceps in the morning.


Hope you feel better tomorrow.  ::chitown::

----------


## AntRobertson

> ^You're sooooooooooooooooooooooooo full of shit.
> 
> You just look for language learning threads, exercise threads and anything else and then incorporate it into your pathetic fantasy world.


I have long suspected that for all he posts on exercise and nutrition topics (and by 'posts' I mean cut 'n pastes obviously) that Barbara is actually a fat fucker.

Kinda like how he posts about being retired but works.

----------


## Davis Knowlton

^And studies languages (on UTube of course) but doesn't speak anything but basic English. And is "in a relationship" "has a partner" etc, but it turns out to be inflatable.

And the fantasy goes on...and on.....

----------


## Lukey1979

Those fuckers that waste my time using cable machines for the cables.... taking up a whole machine doing a single arm extension or what not. And then rest, right in the middle of it.
cable machines are for Pull Ups! :Smile:

----------


## Cold Pizza

> ^And studies languages (on UTube of course) but doesn't speak anything but basic English. And is "in a relationship" "has a partner" etc, but it turns out to be inflatable.
> 
> And the fantasy goes on...and on.....


Davis,

You're sad.

Have you noticed....I don't respond to your posts.

But YOU respond to mine and you attack.


It's funny, but also sad.

You could have just put my on 'Ignore,' but you do not.


 :smiley laughing:

----------


## Cold Pizza

*Go James Tiny Vest!

I love his Back workout video I posted above!!!*

----------


## CaptainNemo

> Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
> 
> 
> *We've all experienced felling better mentally while working out consistently, but there is a new scientific discovery: cathespin B.*
> 
> Exercise triggers brain cell growth and improves memory, scientists prove
> 
> *Aerobic exercise produces a protein called  cathepsin B which travels to the brain and triggers new brain cell growth* 
>  Sarah Knapton, science editor 
> ...


Sounds... <<goooood>> but, also sounds like you'd have to keep a chemistry set in your kitchen, or sleep in Boots.

There's got to be a more appetising way of doing this? chocolate-coated pudenda?

----------


## ENT

Need no more than a pack of litmus paper, a set of kitchen scales  and a periodic blood test, once every 6 months will usually be enough.

Eat as much black chocolate as you like.   :Smile:

----------


## Cold Pizza

Tiney Rips Arms. Hit those guns.

----------


## CaptainNemo

> Need no more than a pack of litmus paper, a set of kitchen scales  and a periodic blood test, once every 6 months will usually be enough.
> 
> Eat as much black chocolate as you like.


I had some of that G&B 100% this week... after the initial gagging the first few days, it started to feel a bit palatable.

I think you need to have more eggs... add purple broccoli and blueberries to the list, boiled spuds are ok, quinoa, yoghurt drinks for your bacteria, more oily fish, red wine, walnuts, pine nuts, pecans, brazils, pumpkin seeds, oats and oat milk, I've got a list !

----------


## ENT

Eggs are up on my diet these days, any purple leafy veg, (lettuce, kale), purple or black grapes, black currants, plenty of acidophilus yoghurt, a whole range of nuts, beans and raw oats. pretty much the whole list you gave.

Raw veges in a blender work wonders. I like carrot, parsley, coriander leaf and spring onions and a touch of chili for a lunch time meal. Filling and an amazing energy boost.

Keep inventing different smoothies, with or without dairy products.

I don't take any added sugar any more in anything, and no processed foods other than vitamins and minerals, cheese, yoghurt, whey powder, milk and chocolate, hard to get the 100% choc, here.

Exercise every day.

----------


## Cold Pizza

*I've always had large calves, and I was able to get them pretty big in my twenties. 

Now in my mid 40s they have good size but I want to make them bigger so I'll strat hitting my calves every 5 days, and maybe every 4 days, with alternating rep rages on sitting and standing calves raises.*

----------


## Stretchy

They are ugly calves.

----------


## ENT

Worse than ugly, deformed.

What's with his knees?

----------


## Cold Pizza

^ and ^^,

He's standing on the balls of his feet pushing up and flexing. 

That's a top flex pose.

He's just being "showy."

----------


## somtamslap

> He's just being "showy."


 Ahh, I see - he's being 'showy'. I always get being 'showy' and being 'a complete kunt' mixed up. Silly me.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
> 
> He's just being "showy."
> 
> 
>  Ahh, I see - he's being 'showy'. I always get being 'showy' and being 'a complete kunt' mixed up. Silly me.


And to clarify, we do not know who froze the intro frame at that point.

Him? Others? Youtube?

I do not not know, and I don't care.

It's about the whole video.

The reason why people focus on one frame in the intro is because they are old, lazy, fat slobs, with a Thai wife they despise.

Losers.

----------


## Lukey1979

Blokes you post up look like shit. Juiced up shit. Its 2016, post up some athletic, Calisthenic Wizards or something.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Blokes you post up look like shit. Juiced up shit. Its 2016, post up some athletic, Calisthenic Wizards or something.


This.

Fan-boying roid heads is dumb. Dumber still is trying to emulate their training and an excellent way to snap your shit up.

----------


## barrylad66

Never touch weights,but cycle up to doi  
Suthep/pui 4 or five times a week and cycle the samoeng / Mae rim loop on the weekend. Eat well and feel fucking great   :Smile:

----------


## ENT

Doing well.   :Smile:

----------


## Passing Through

> The reason why people focus on one frame in the intro is because they are old, lazy, fat slobs, with a Thai wife they despise.


It could be that. Or it could be that you're a cvnt and nobody can be bothered to play the videos you post all over the forum. Hmm. Which is it, I wonder.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Blokes you post up look like shit. Juiced up shit. Its 2016, post up some athletic, Calisthenic Wizards or something.


You asked for it --> you got it.

These calisthenics guys are wicked. More to come:

----------


## Cold Pizza

Lukey,

This is very good. Specific exercises.




Dedication:

----------


## Cold Pizza

Today I did *Back and Biceps.* Total time 37 minutes and I was moving quickly with little rest between sets. 


Time for the usual "change things around" and also adapt b/c my elbow injury is now 8 weeks old and I cannot do certain exercises:


6:30 AM - protein shake

8:20 AM Pre-w breakfast: 3 whole eggs in omelet with nothing added and 1/2 cup of oats w/ cinnamon. 

9-10: Creatine - 2.5 grams (that's all I need to start a cycle again).

9:20 BCAA powder (one scoop, can't recall how many grams; maybe 7 grams).


Started warmup at 9:45

1. Barbell Row from the floor X 2

2. standing Pushdown (cable + bar) x 4

3. y-rope standing mid row x 1

4. y-rope w/ cable standing row from the floor, pulling up x 4

5. One-arm cable pull back from the top pulling down and back x 4 (each arm)

6. Lat Pulldown x 2


*Biceps* (still have elbow injury so cannot use dumbells). I can only do standing cable curls, preacher curls and y-rope hammers.

1. Standing cable curl - 65 reps (I usually do 85+) but not today*

2. y-rope hammer curls x 4, for a total of about 65 reps.


Post workout meal: 45 grams of protein in a shake, 2 small burgers, taking one out of the 4 buns out. 


No preachers today.


*2 days ago I did did "feeders" for arms on biceps. Meaning, I did 120 reps with very low weight to move the blood flow. No squeeze at the top. 

I will these feeder for a month or six weeks once per week (and maybe twice a week) to see if it works. 

I am also hitting calves 3 times per week now it is is indeed working. They are growing.

----------


## Perota

Weight lifting is for gays. Just visit any sport club if you don't believe me.

This is what real men do to keep fit

Floyd Mayweather undefeated professional boxer

http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5m1O5niSr0

----------


## AntRobertson

'Real men' skip rope in a studio to the applause of onlookers??  :smiley laughing: 

And FYI Mayweather does incorporate weights into his training (or did).

----------


## Perota

> 'Real men' skip rope in a studio to the applause of onlookers?? 
> 
> And FYI Mayweather does incorporate weights into his training (or did).


But you can ask any boxer, fighter ... jump roping is more important than weight lifting. Every training session involved jump roping, weight lifting only from time to time and for very specific goal that DOES NOT involve having big muscles.





These people are real champions. Tell me where you see big muscles ?

Weight lifting is all about appearance and has nothing to do with fitness and is definitively not healthy.

----------


## AntRobertson

> But you can ask any boxer, fighter ... jump roping is more important than weight lifting


Be that as it may dismissing weight training as "for gays" is a bit naff. And as you state yourself they _do_ lift weights.

Besides, boxers train specifically for boxing so it's not exactly a like-for-like comparison. I dare say they wouldn't fare to well against someone in MMA, swimming, or running for example and none of us on this forum are elite level boxers.

And, FYI, using someone who abuses women and kids as an example of a 'real man' might be a little ill-advised. 



> Weight lifting is all about appearance and has nothing to do with fitness and is definitively not healthy.


Yeah, not true.

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> But you can ask any boxer, fighter ... jump roping is more important than weight lifting
> 
> 
> Be that as it may dismissing weight training as "for gays" is a bit naff. And as you state yourself they _do_ lift weights.


First I didn't intent for this comment to be demeaning against gays. But you have to agree that gay people pay much more importance to their appearance than heteros. In my opinion weight lifting, unless practiced for very specific reason is much more about appearance than health or fitness, that's why I was referring weight lifting as a "gay activity". Which is easily confirmed when you visit your local sport centre.

Now I don't say that weight lifting is totally useless. There could be good reason to lift weight as part as of a general training. But a training that focus exclusively or quasi exclusively on weight lifting and "body building" is more about self confidence (or the lack of) than fitness.

----------


## AntRobertson

Frankly I'm beginning to wonder just what sort of local sports centers you are visiting and what you're doing when you're there?!  :Very Happy: 

In all seriousness though I agree there's indeed nothing wrong with weights for a fitness regime. In fact it's scientifically proven by science to have many positive influences and effects. If it's not your thing then fair enough but all sorts of people from all walks of life and with all sorts of goals do it.

I guess I just don't really see the point in dismissing it out of hand or using generalizations.

----------


## Perota

> Frankly I'm beginning to wonder just what sort of local sports centers you are visiting and what you're doing when you're there?! 
> 
> In all seriousness though I agree there's indeed nothing wrong with weights for a fitness regime. In fact it's scientifically proven by science to have many positive influences and effects. If it's not your thing then fair enough but all sorts of people from all walks of life and with all sorts of goals do it.
> 
> I guess I just don't really see the point in dismissing it out of hand or using generalizations.


I would say if you are badly out of shape going to the gym and do some weight lifting can be beneficiary to get your muscles back to work. If your 20 kg overweight and haven't done any physical exercise for the past 30 years doing cardio would be  excruciating and stretching nearly impossible. So going to the gym, doing mostly weight lifting (because it is easy, you're mostly seated) and a little bit of cardio and a little bit of stretching is a good way to start. But your goal will be to increase cardio and stretching and reduce weight lifting until you feel ready to start a real fitness activity like cycling, jogging or swimming.

But doing just weight lifting is useless. You can't run, you can't jump, you have no resistance, no flexibility. You have big muscles  but they are totally useless. But as you say, it's up to you.

----------


## AntRobertson

> But doing just weight lifting is useless


Well no, weight-lifting is proven to be more beneficial for weight-loss than cardio.

Of course ideally you should probably be doing a combination of both.



> You have big muscles but they are totally useless


You seem to be conflating weight-lifting with bodybuilding. They aren't the same thing and it's like saying all runners are sprinters.

The myth of 'lift weight get big muscles' is just that, a myth.



> doing mostly weight lifting (because it is easy, you're mostly seated)


 :Confused:

----------


## Perota

> Well no, weight-lifting is proven to be more beneficial for weight-loss than cardio.


Sorry, some points are debatable but this is total BS






> it's like saying all runners are sprinters.


Good point here



Losing weight and gaining muscle are two different goals. IMO if your goal is to lose weight you should start with a proper diet and cardio like 30 to 45 mn of stairmaster everyday. If you believe that lifting weight may help you lose weight you will probably end up like the fat ass in the first picture

----------


## AntRobertson

> Sorry, some points are debatable but this is total BS


Well no because...

Fat Loss Wars: Cardio Versus Weight Training!

https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/201...ight-training/

...science, that's why.




> IMO if your goal is to lose weight you should start with a proper diet and cardio like 30 to 45 mn of stairmaster everyday. If you believe than lifting weight may help you lose weight you will probably end up like the fat ass in the first picture


Well that may be your opinion but it's rather inconveniently not backed by actual fact.

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> Sorry, some points are debatable but this is total BS
> 
> 
> Well no because...
> 
> Fat Loss Wars: Cardio Versus Weight Training!
> 
> ...


Science ?  :rofl: 

Most of these studies are BS. Why ?  Because they are written by personal trainers and sponsored by supplement vendors. Just as serious as a study on the benefit of alcohol sponsored by Johnny Walker.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Science ? 
> 
> Most of these studies are BS. Why ? Because they are written by personal trainers and sponsored by supplement vendors.


Yes, science, as in actual peer-reviewed studies such as: https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Articl...urnfatUNM.html

You have absolutely no proof that they are 'they are written by personal trainers and sponsored by supplement vendors'. It's actually kinda bizarre you'd even say it.

As entitled to your opinion as you are it's beginning to seem to me that it's almost exclusively based on outmoded thoughts about exercise physiology and outright myths.

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> Science ? 
> 
> Most of these studies are BS. Why ? Because they are written by personal trainers and sponsored by supplement vendors.
> 
> 
> Yes, science, as in actual peer-reviewed studies such as: https://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Articl...urnfatUNM.html
> 
> ...


Read the study you post : physically active males in their mid-twenties who had been participating in resistance exercise more than 3 days a week for the last 2 years. 

What the study shows is young semi-professional athletes burn fat when they practice resistance training, which I would say is pretty obvious.

But the question here is : Is weight lifting the most efficient way to lose weight for untrained overweight middle aged people ?

The answer is still no.

----------


## AntRobertson

First you dismiss such studies completely out of hand as being fraudulent and now you're being unessacarily narrow and specious (they were not 'semi-professional athletes').

And those were the subjects for this particular study chosen - as the study explicitly states - for consistency and efficiency of results but the same exact principles apply and hold true for everyone.

Do you need to weight train to lose weight? No. Is it more efficient and beneficial than simply cardio-based exercise alone? Yes. Those are the actual questions.

Whatever your issue with weight-training is it simply isn't based on facts.

----------


## Perota

> First you dismiss such studies completely out of hand as being fraudulent and now you're being unessacarily narrow and specious (they were not 'semi-professional athletes').
> 
> And those were the subjects for this particular study chosen - as the study explicitly states - for consistency and efficiency of results but the same exact principles apply and hold true for everyone.


I just wonder who is the english native speaker here (I'm not )

"_As this study design was completed with trained male subjects, it is  hoped that the methods and procedures will be completed with other  subject populations (e.g., females, untrained persons, youth, seniors,  overweight, etc.) in future research._"




> the same exact principles apply and hold true for everyone.


*
NO !*

You really don't understand scientific studies, do you ?

----------


## AntRobertson

> You really don't understand scientific studies, do you ?





> Most of these studies are BS. Why ? Because they are written by personal trainers and sponsored by supplement vendors. Just as serious as a study on the benefit of alcohol sponsored by Johnny Walker.


 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 



> I just wonder who is the english native speaker here (I'm not )
> 
> "_As this study design was completed with trained male subjects, it is  hoped that the methods and procedures will be completed with other  subject populations (e.g., females, untrained persons, youth, seniors,  overweight, etc.) in future research._"


Yeah, that sentence... It doesn't say what you think it says.

----------


## Perota

^ I believe you can find here a number of English teachers who can explain you the meaning of the above sentences and the difference between "most" and "all".

But we have now to take a break in your (re)education as it has finally stopped raining and I'm heading to the swimming pool to practice a real sportive activity ;-)

----------


## AntRobertson

> I believe you can find here a number of English teachers who can explain you the meaning of the above sentences and the difference between "most" and "all"


"Explain _to_ you..."



> I'm heading to the swimming pool to practice a real sportive activity


"_Sporting_"; or _"sport"_.

Enjoy and don't forget to come up for oxygen periodically.

----------


## Wayne Kerr

Come on boys, you're kinda both right ... basically all one needs unless you got fkin syphilis of the lungs or something is a good diet, good sleep, 3-5 hours low-moderate cardio a week, bit of strength building exercise 2-3 times a week, and a good all out effort once a week (a new girlfriend or a proper HIIT session). Nearly everyone gets lost at the good diet and sleep bit ... after that ya pushing shit up hill.

----------


## kmart

> Weight lifting is for gays. Just visit any sport club if you don't believe me.
> 
> This is what real men do to keep fit
> 
> Floyd Mayweather undefeated professional boxer
> 
> http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5m1O5niSr0


Erm, most boxers do some weight training for strength and especially punching power.
Jump-rope is usually just a warm-up for heavy bag; mitts, and / or sparring, which is _the_ must-do for boxers  / fighters.
Rope work and running is the necessary stamina for all boxers, but especially to make weight for top-level fights, which is sometimes draining and unhealthy..

You really seem to have a bug up your arse regarding weights / weight training.?

I'm guessing someone kicked sand in your face at the beach.?  ::spin::

----------


## kmart

Dunno what happened there^^?  :Confused:

----------


## AntRobertson

Me either... But you've managed to completely margin-fuck the thread!  :Very Happy:

----------


## AntRobertson



----------


## kmart

^Margin-fucking is indeed included in my weight-training regime. Glad to see some results.

----------


## Neverna

Can you still edit that post, kmart? 

Try deleting the space between the p and the colon.

----------


## ENT

> Try deleting the space between the p and the colon.


You'd be gutless...

----------


## Cold Pizza

Here is a short vid by Rich Piana on _Feeder Workouts_. 

I'm not a "follower" of Piana, but I've been doing these "feeder workouts" for arms over about 5 weeks and it has worked better than anything I've every done. 

Note: I don't do the 300 reps for triceps and 180 reps for biceps every night like he does. I cannot do this. (He can, as he taken lots of roid and drugs for years, in addition to PMMA injections.)

I am also doing this for my calves and it's working like nothing else ever has. 

Feeders are high, high reps with low, low weight. I'll do these for 6-8 weeks before switching the weight and rep range to keep tricking my body. 

He says this in a funny way, too.

----------


## Lukey1979

Perota. You don't half talk some shite mate. Clearly haven't got a clue about fitness and exercise. I've not read this much nonsense in a long time.

----------


## crackerjack101

Does massage count?

----------


## Mr Earl

> Does massage count?


Thai massage is the lazy man's yoga. It be good.

----------


## kmart

Whoa! Leg day earlier today. Can hardly fecking walk now.  :Smile: 

This is a pretty decent site for people that enjoy free weights. Bit old now, but some good tips and info, especially for the high-weight; low-rep regimes.

The No Nonsense Guide to Natural Bodybuilding & Fitness!

----------


## crackerjack101

> Thai massage is the lazy man's yoga. It be good.


I sometimes have a shower as well.  :Smile:

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Perota. You don't half talk some shite mate. Clearly haven't got a clue about fitness and exercise. I've not read this much nonsense in a long time.


*Edit In:* Sorry Lukey, you're referring to perota and not feeder workouts.


Piana is not about "health and exercise."

He was a bodybuilder and is now a "weight lifter" who sells his products.

The feeder workout are about increasing muscle size - not about health.

Feeder workouts work (for me).

I use 15 lb dumbbells at the moment. 

I do at least 240 reps and sometimes 300 - even for DB lateral side raises. It's working.

Of course, the body will get use to it and resist and then I'll raise the weight for a while.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Whoa! Leg day earlier today. Can hardly fecking walk now. 
> 
> This is a pretty decent site for people that enjoy free weights. Bit old now, but some good tips and info, especially for the high-weight; low-rep regimes.
> 
> The No Nonsense Guide to Natural Bodybuilding & Fitness!


That's a very detailed and informative site, kmart.

Cheers.

----------


## Perota

> Perota. You don't half talk some shite mate. Clearly haven't got a clue about fitness and exercise. I've not read this much nonsense in a long time.


I do exercise on average one to two hours a day. I run, swim, practice Muay Thai and yoga. And occasionally lift weight. I practice them all because each activity brings  something different and are therefore complementary. Of all of them lifting weight is the one that bring you the less (by far) in term of physical endurance, flexibility, stamina and general well being. 

As Cold Pizza rightly point out weight lifting as it is practiced in most fitness centers is about increasing muscle volume, physical appearance, not about health. So if you want to look like an inflated doll up to you but this has nothing to do with health and fitness.

----------


## Cold Pizza

No, that fat doll is for power lifters that pig out.

Weight lifting burns fat, is good for heart, and keeps muscle, etc

----------


## Lukey1979

> I do exercise on average one to two hours a day. I run, swim, practice Muay Thai and yoga. And occasionally lift weight. I practice them all because each activity brings  something different and are therefore complementary.





> Of all of them lifting weight is the one that bring you the less (by far) in term of physical endurance, flexibility, stamina and general well being.


Yeah probably for you, because you haven't got a clue what you are doing.



> As Cold Pizza rightly point out weight lifting as it is practiced in most fitness centers is about increasing muscle volume, physical appearance, not about health. So if you want to look like an inflated doll up to you but this has nothing to do with health and fitness.


The weights are just the tools, you gotta know what you are doing, Its your knowledge on how to utilise those tools that makes the difference. Hows your knowledge on Yoga and swimming? Im assuming better than your knowledge on Weight Lifting..
Saying: Lifting is _''about increasing muscle volume, physical appearance, not about health. So if you want to look like an inflated doll up to you but this has nothing to do with health and fitness.''_
Shows how little you know about weight lifting in any capacity. To rubbish Weight lifting as being useless, makes you look like a complete buffoon mate. And before you ask, no Im not some roided up Gym monster, I do everything, but Calisthenics and HIIT are my current focus. Weights are certainly incorporated into my circuits, not isolated movements, but functional movements and compound lifts. The possibilities with Barbells, dumbells and kettle bells etc are endless.

----------


## AntRobertson

Wot he said.

Perota's idea of weight training seems to be based entirely on misconception.

The whole 'oh I don't want to lift weights because I'll get big and bulky' thing.

----------


## Perota

> Shows how little you know about weight lifting in any capacity. To rubbish Weight lifting as being useless, makes you look like a complete buffoon mate.


What a display of insecurity. Do you realize you're just making my point that weight lifting is about self image and (the lack of ) self confidence ?




> And before you ask, no Im not some roided up Gym monster, I do everything, but Calisthenics and HIIT are my current focus. Weights are certainly incorporated into my circuits, not isolated movements, but functional movements and compound lifts.


Here I stop to understand why we argue. The main  difference between your routines and mines is mines as being part of a sport like Muay Thai are much less boring. And with using only body weight the risks of injuries are much less. But mostly it is much less boring.

----------


## Lukey1979

If you think that my sessions described above are ''boring" then you continue to prove my point that you don't know what you are talking about. You couldn't get more variation in a session. You talking about "body weight", you might want to google what Calisthenics actually are.

----------


## kmart

^I think Perota has had sand kicked in his face previously.?

----------


## Perota

> ^I think Perota has had sand kicked in his face previously.?


Stop making my point  :rofl:  Yes, it is obvious that people who try to get a "real body" are people with an insecurity problem. It is just what I say posts after posts, it is not about health but body image, appearance.  

But they don't realize they are still a joke as even a 12 years old with a bit of fighting knowledge will beat the shit out of them. I posted earlier pictures of real fighters, boxers, Muay Thai or MMA. They don't have big muscles, they are not heavy, Floyd Mayweather is less than 70 Kg for 1.73 m

----------


## Perota

> If you think that my sessions described above are ''boring" then you continue to prove my point that you don't know what you are talking about. You couldn't get more variation in a session. You talking about "body weight", you might want to google what Calisthenics actually are.


 Calisthenic, it sounds like a Canadian insult ;-) It's true that I don't have a real knowledge about all these news fads. We have plenty of them at my gym, they always come up with new names, body combat, samba dancing ... They are all the same, they take real sports, dumb them down and add loud music. I much prefer doing laps at the swimming pool. It is a real complete exercise and very relaxing as an extra bonus.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Yes, it is obvious that people who try to get a "real body" are people with an insecurity problem. It is just what I say posts after posts, it is not about health but body image, appearance. 
> 
> But they don't realize they are still a joke as even a 12 years old with a bit of fighting knowledge will beat the shit out of them. I posted earlier pictures of real fighters, boxers, Muay Thai or MMA. They don't have big muscles, they are not heavy, Floyd Mayweather is less than 70 Kg for 1.73 m


You're entitled to your own opinion not your own facts. And when you state your opinion as fact, well...

I bet your dad could beat up my dad though.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Lukey1979

> Originally Posted by Lukey1979
> 
> 
> If you think that my sessions described above are ''boring" then you continue to prove my point that you don't know what you are talking about. You couldn't get more variation in a session. You talking about "body weight", you might want to google what Calisthenics actually are.
> 
> 
>  Calisthenic, it sounds like a Canadian insult ;-) It's true that I don't have a real knowledge about all these news fads. We have plenty of them at my gym, they always come up with new names, body combat, samba dancing ... They are all the same, they take real sports, dumb them down and add loud music. I much prefer doing laps at the swimming pool. It is a real complete exercise and very relaxing as an extra bonus.


Calisthenics, ''fads'' hahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha.

The word calisthenics comes from the ancient Greek words kalos (κάλος), which means "beauty", and sthenos (σθένος), meaning "strength". It is the art of using one's body weight and qualities of inertia as a means to develop one's physique..

You probably do Thai Bo, Most fighters in any discipline will incorporate weights into their Strength and conditioning routine.

----------


## Perota

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> Yes, it is obvious that people who try to get a "real body" are people with an insecurity problem. It is just what I say posts after posts, it is not about health but body image, appearance. 
> 
> But they don't realize they are still a joke as even a 12 years old with a bit of fighting knowledge will beat the shit out of them. I posted earlier pictures of real fighters, boxers, Muay Thai or MMA. They don't have big muscles, they are not heavy, Floyd Mayweather is less than 70 Kg for 1.73 m
> 
> 
> You're entitled to your own opinion not your own facts. And when you state your opinion as fact, well...
> 
> I bet your dad could beat up my dad though.


Facts are not my own, they are just facts

And regarding your daddy issues ... sorry to hear about that. If you want to talk about it it is ok. We are between friends. As I always said weight lifting, body building is about self confidence, actually the lack of it. It is clear that most of the time it has roots in our formative years. So if you want to talk about your dad, let it go, it is ok.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Facts are not my own, they are just facts


...



> What a display of insecurity. Do you realize you're just making my point that weight lifting is about self image and (the lack of ) self confidence ?





> The main difference between your routines and mines is mines as being part of a sport like Muay Thai are much less boring





> As I always said weight lifting, body building is about self confidence, actually the lack of it.


Those aren't facts. They're opinions. Do you not know the difference?

So if you want to talk about 'issues' then we can start with the difference between facts cf. opinions and your conflation of weight-training with bodybuilding (which, ironically, really only goes to show that you have an/some issue(s)).

----------


## Perota

^ 

Facts is when you're right. 

Opinion is as "you're entitled to your opinion". We know that you're delusional but as you're a friend we don't want to hurt your feelings therefore we accept what you say as an "opinion". Most of your posts fall under the category of "opinion". Which is a nice way to say they are total nonsense ;-)

----------


## AntRobertson

> Do you not know the difference?





> Facts is when you're right.


Well that's a resounding 'No' then.



> Opinion is as "you're entitled to your opinion". We know that you're delusional but as you're a friend we don't want to hurt your feelings therefore we accept what you say as an "opinion". Most of your posts fall under the category of "opinion". Which is a nice way to say they are total nonsense ;-)


Would you like some dressing for that word-salad?

----------


## kmart

> You probably do Thai Bo, Most fighters in any discipline will incorporate weights into their Strength and conditioning routine.


Yep. Weights and heavy bag generate punching power.

----------


## Neverna

Look at this skinny guy, a runner. I bet he never lifted any weights.  :Smile:

----------


## Cold Pizza

[QUOTE=Neverna;3367352]Look at this skinny guy, a runner. I bet he never lifted any weights.  :Smile: 



Runners are skinny, have little LBM (Lean Body Mass - muscle) because they are long distance runners.

Less muscle the better for the most part. Some long distance runners are "fat skinny" meaning they are thin but have more fat.

Look at a sprinter.

Look at a long distance runner.

Big big difference.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Very interesting info and photos of some Old School BBers, and an emphasis on the Tris....

----------


## cyrille

[QUOTE=Cold Pizza;3367381] 


> Look at this skinny guy, a runner. I bet he never lifted any weights. 
> 
> 
> 
> Runners are skinny, have little LBM (Lean Body Mass - muscle) because they are long distance runners.
> 
> Less muscle the better for the most part. Some long distance runners are "fat skinny" meaning they are thin but have more fat.
> 
> Look at a sprinter.
> ...


Your propensity for stating the bleedin' obvious never seems to tire.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Cyphillis,

stop trolling, you loser.

----------


## UrbanMan

> Look at a sprinter.
> 
> Look at a long distance runner.
> 
> Big big difference.


I'm gonna guess the guy on the right is an American football player doing a sprint.

----------


## Sumbitch

> I'm gonna guess the guy on the right is an American football player doing a sprint.


What's it feel like to have that kind of build, UrbanMeyer?

----------


## Sumbitch

> Very interesting info and photos of some Old School BBers, and an emphasis on the Tris....

----------


## Sumbitch



----------


## Cold Pizza

Ric Drasin has a series of youtube vids and he does them really well.

Drasin worked out with Arnold, Colombo, Waller, Draper and lots of others in the "golden era" of Muscle Beach. He's 72 and making his youtube vids. He's immortal.

Diet, routines, life back then, and lots of fun stories.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Here is a shoulder workout by James "Tiny" Vest.

I like the last exercise for the rear-delts. 

I've never done an exercise for rear delts like this: standing cable-mini-bar pull back at a slight upward angle. You don't need to go into full motion.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Some video of why Rich Piana (Piano) will not do a front double bicep pose again.

We all know he put this stuff in his arms. He buys it in Mexico. 

He injects a synthetic chemical into his arms called PMMA. 

Sad.

----------


## chassamui

Death by you tube. How come you are still breathing, you dull cunter?

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Death by you tube. How come you are still breathing, you dull cunter?


Thanks for the post. 

I'm close to 600 posts in this thread.


I'm the king of successful threads, bar no one.


 :Yup:

----------


## Perota

I can't believe this gay thread is still going on. You want real muscles, muscles that mean something, that you're strong and healthy ? Go swimming ! And extra bonus if you swim outdoor you will get a nice sun tan. 


Muscles working when practicing the two most popular styles : breaststroke and free style

----------


## Cold Pizza

Rich Piana (aka Pian*o*) shows his arrogant twat self in his new house, his dozens of pair of shoes, gucci watches, and cars, etc.

"When I went to the Olympia, I paid a guy $100 to park it...."

He's still a teen....going on 50.

Rich....how's the PMMA plastic in your arms you inject in Mexico treating you?

----------


## cyrille

> I can't believe this gay thread is still going on.


snaff visits his threads every few weeks like a gardener putting manure around his roses.

----------


## Neverna

> Originally Posted by Perota
> 
> 
> I can't believe this gay thread is still going on.
> 
> 
> snaff visits his threads every few weeks like a gardener putting manure


It's an uphill struggle for him.

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by cyrille
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Perota
> ...


There's no struggle when you're sailin' smooth. 

 ::chitown::

----------


## Cold Pizza

Ibragimov - The Next Arnie?

We shall see.

Let's give him 2-3 years if he stays committed 100%

----------


## Sumbitch

Back to the gym today. 45 minutes doing free weights focusing on the arms and back and 45 minutes on the treadmill (5k).

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Back to the gym today. 45 minutes doing free weights focusing on the arms and back and 45 minutes on the treadmill (5k).


Good on you, ya sumbitch.  :Smile: 

I'm doing moderate cardio (HBP 120) on an AM fast in the mornings.

I got into Ketosis for a while last week but am not just low carbing and not in ketosis.

I'm also doing IF a couple/few days per week and it does help.

----------


## cyrille

> an AM fast in the mornings.


Interesting timing for that.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Cold Pizza

> Originally Posted by Cold Pizza
> 
> 
> an AM fast in the mornings.
> 
> 
> Interesting timing for that.


Cardio is optimal for me when I do not have brekkie beforehand.

----------


## Mandaloopy

See for me the gym isn't so much for getting ripped and buff (not sure this is possible for my skinny ass self) but more for the mental health benefits that it brings. Taking my stress out in the weights works wonders for my mind! I'd be seriously frustrated without my workout time.

Does sweet f all to help with my insomnia which puzzles me

----------


## Sumbitch

^ I actually need less sleep after a workout. I think the metabolism gets revved up even though you're tired. The important thing is to get your rest.  :Smile:

----------


## Cold Pizza

Henry Rollins tell Howard Stern his daily diet and exercise routine. It's good.

----------


## Cold Pizza

She did arch here back to reduce the rep range however, but still, good on her. 

13 year old girl bench presses 240 lb.

Why won't this embed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_co...&v=bxAc97K2I5M

----------


## Mandaloopy

Been out of the gym for a week with a heavy cold. Looking forward to get back today- not going puts me in a terrible mood. Anyone else get that?

----------


## cyrille

> Why won't this embed?


An act of god.

----------


## bsnub

> An act of god.


 :rofl:

----------


## Cold Pizza

Rich Piana is the new "story" for using the N-word from 10 years ago.

Let's create a "story!"

----------


## Neverna

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cold Pizza again."

----------


## Cold Pizza

> "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cold Pizza again."


Did you watch the video, Neverna?

----------


## Cold Pizza

*Here is Rich Piana's apology. Damage control.*

----------


## Cold Pizza

James "Tiny" Vest hops in to play "the good guy" although he's from rural Pennsylvania.

----------


## Cold Pizza

Rich....babbling incoherently....we hear the *yawn*....N-word twice.....

----------


## Cold Pizza

*A reasonable response from a member of the BB community who is black and he hits it on the head here:*

----------


## Mandaloopy

Enjoying my gym time and put on a bit of weight. Would like to gain some more but the food here is a fooking crime against humanity. I've never hated a national food until I moved to Myanmar.

----------


## Cold Pizza



----------


## Cold Pizza

My favorite: 

Rock it up:

----------


## CaptainNemo

> Enjoying my gym time and put on a bit of weight. Would like to gain some more but the food here is a fooking crime against humanity. I've never hated a national food until I moved to Myanmar.


That's a useful insight... I once went to a Burmese restaurant in London, and it was an anticlimax... I guess it's ok if you want to _lose_ weight. Is it worse than Flipperland?!
The trouble with bulking/buffing up is that it only lasts for a while, and in later life, you turn into a big blob. It can also be a problem at work. One of my workmates is a very big buff 50-year-old, but now they're changing the seafarer's medical, he could be failed because his BMI is wrong (and this is a guy who hits the ship gym at 5am every morning), yet they pass some real chunks, and even flabby pear-shaped women who would be a nightmare to deal with in a disaster, because they can't haul their own weight, and might get stuck in a door etc...

Anyway I did my 18mi bike ride yesterday in the blazing heat, and on the last mile, slashed my (10-year old) tyres on some innocuous debris. Put the old mountain bike in for a general upgrade to make it more fun to ride. I don't know how people cope with those tiny razor blade seats, but then I guess they ain't packing what I am.

----------


## cyrille

:Smile: 

44km for me yesterday morning...and yes, after a two month break my arse is sorer than after a night out with butterfly.


It does get easier though.

Bicycle riding that is.

----------


## Mandaloopy

Off to the gym before it gets roasting hot. Usually go right after work but want to start going in the morning to get more energised for work. Problem is I f-ing hate mornings as it is.

----------


## Grampa

The Ruby just finished in Boca Raton, FL.

I'll posting updates soon.

----------


## Grampa

An NYT article on Nuerogenesis (the brain growing new nuerons) and other benefits on the brain from exercise:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/w...ep-moving.html

----------


## Grampa

My guns are growing. I just measured my arms in a cold flex:

----------


## Grampa

*Shoulders today:*

1. Standing DB lateral raise - 106 reps in about 10 sets - (I only count reps).

2. Overhead Y-rope pull back (rear delts) X 3

3. Bar cable pull back (rear delts) X 2

4. Upright Cable Rows X 3

5. Barbell Shrugs X 3 - warm up with above the knee rack pulls X 2

6. DB Farmer's walk (my gym doesn't have a Farmer's Carry bar).

7. DB Shrugs - about 70 reps

----------


## Grampa

*Leg day:*

*
Pre-WO meal:* 

1/2 cup of oats w/ cinnamon powder + 25 gms of Whey protein shake (I forgot to buy eggs yesterday).


1. Barbell Squat X 4

2. Sit down calf raise, 60 reps + standing calf raise 72 reps = 132 reps

3. Hamstring raise (machine) X 4


No quad exercises b/c my legs were burning a bit from the Farmer's walk yesterday


*Post WO meal:*

1 1/2 cup of white rice, chicken 6 oz? and 25 gms of Whey protein shake

----------


## Grampa

*Chest & Tris.

*
Breakfast meal #1: 4 whole eggs scrambled, nothing added. 2 pieces of sliced chease

Meal #2 (lunch): egg noodles with porks slices.

Pre-workout drink. About 17 grams of Whey Protein

*
Chest:*

Incline Barbell Press - 5 sets equalling 50 reps (on the moderate-heavy side)

Standing Cable Crossovers X 3

Chest Press (machine) X 1

*
Triceps:*

Standing cable bar push down

Close Grip Bench Press (Smith Machine)

Overhead Y-rope pull 

Standing Angle Bar Push down

Overhead Y-rope pull (again)

Standing cable push down with bar (again).

Total reps for Ticeps: 154 


*Overhead Y-rope is a great way to stretch the triceps on _eccentric_ (downward motion).

I did not do Dips today, but will next week.

I don't do a lot of sets and reps for chest b/c I have a tendency to have a sagging chest. 


Post-Workout meal:

30 gms Whey protein, 1 1/2 cups of white rice, and about 6-7 oz of Chicken about 20 minutes after finishing the lifts.


*I also take 25 grams of Whey protein right before bed.

----------


## Neverna

How big are your biceps/triceps, Gramps?

----------


## Grampa

> How big are your biceps/triceps, Gramps?


I have not measured them in a year.

But I do have measuring tape to measure them, so I will measure them right after I get up in a cold flex and post.


*worth noting is that I stopped hitting my Bis & Tris for growth for about 10 months, and just started hitting them again for growth starting in early September, about 7 weeks ago. 

I use 15 lb DBs for the Bis and beat them to pieces. For Tris I use more weight.

I will go to moderate-heavy starting next week and do that for a couple of weeks to change things up.

Will post a measurement in a day.

----------


## AntRobertson

> How big are your biceps/triceps, Gramps?


Progress in the gym requires dedication, consistency, integrity and honesty... None of which Milkman possesses so I bet the answer is 'not very'.

----------


## Neverna

^ I bet they're bigger than yours, Ant!

----------


## Grampa

> How big are your biceps/triceps, Gramps?


Just under 17 1/4 inches.

Cold flex.

----------


## Switch

> Cold flex.


That flex should be around your neck on the gallows. Drunken murderer.

----------


## Grampa

> That flex should be around your neck on the gallows. Drunken murderer.


Ouch.

Hit a sore spot, did I?

Murderer? 

You're calling me a murderer? Who did I kill?

----------


## Switch

Driving a weapon of mass destruction under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs should be capital offence. You wouldn’t remember if you had killed someone.

----------


## Grampa

> Driving a weapon of mass destruction under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs should be capital offence. You wouldn’t remember if you had killed someone.


I think you're Camel Toe or Panama Hat.

I never said I was perfect. I made a mistake. I won't do it again.

I have to go to court on December 12th.

----------


## Grampa

*Today:* 

Rest day. Rest & Recovery.


My Calves are still sore as well as my chest and Triceps - that's what I want! - Destruction.

B/c I didn't lift or exercise at all today I went low carb: 


Woke up: 7 AM.

12:25 first meal: 4 scrambled eggs with nothing added, and one slice of cheese.

4:45 pm second meal: a Chicken breast and 3 pork kebabs.

9:30 pm last meal: double burger, grass fed beef, picked out 50% of the bun. 


I'll take a protein shake of 25 gms when I wake up to pee in the night.

----------


## Grampa

Resting again b/c my calves and tris are severely sore.

I'll change my plan to do Back and Bis tomorrow and instead to Shoulders b/c I'm putting extra emphasis on my shoulders at the moment. Just switching the days with these exercises to hit my should about every 5 days.

----------


## Neverna

I've just done a bit of this. I'm not even puffing or panting.

----------


## Grampa

^ Thanks for sharing, Neverna. I'll check this out. I do HIIT occasionally on an AM fasted stomach. I'm due to start HIIT again soon.


Today I did Shoulders after a 3 days break to rest and recovery. At my age if I kill it, my muscles take more time to recover and recovery is where gains are made and I want to keep my Cortisol levels low and my natural T levels where they are. I don't want to over-train.


*Pre-workout meal*: 4 eggs scrambled and 2 slices of cheddar cheese, nothing else. 2/3 cups of Rolled Oats w/ Cinnamon

20 minutes before workout, about 17 grams of Isolate Whey Protein

Lifted 1:55 minutes after my pre-workout meal.



*Today: Shoulders.*


1.  Standing DB lateral raises - 105 reps.

2.  Overhead Y-rope cable pull back (rear delts) X 3

3.  Mid-level cable pull back (rear delts) X 2

4.  Upright cable rows X 3

5.  Barbell Shrugs, with a 3 second static hold for the last ten reps - 67 reps. 

6.  DB shrugs, for a total of 115 reps (I don't count sets, but only reps at the moment).

7. Standing Plate Raise - raise a barbell plate from your chin and up high and down only to the chin level (Traps).

7.  Farmer's Carry - not too many passes/walks b/c my grip was giving out on me. I decided to do Farmer's Carry at the end today so I could hit my Traps more with Shrugs.


*Post-workout meal, 15 minutes after finishing:*

1 1/2 cups of white rice.
Chicken 6-7 oz.
25 gms of Isoloate Whey Protein.


90 minutes later: 35 gms of Isolate Whey Protein.


This is the same workout for my shoulders that I've been doing for 2 weeks (except for adding Upright cable rows).

I will do this same routine for about 3-4 more weeks and then add and replace a couple of exercises.


I am focusing on hitting my Lateral Delts and Traps. I tend to grow these well, genetically, and it makes for the *appearance* that your bigger (by being more wide with the delts and bigger with the Traps). 

It's OK to focus a little bit on "image" for a while. 


Tomorrow: Legs.

----------


## aging one

^ There is about as much truth in that post as the one you made saying you would only post in sports a few days ago.  The only thing you are exercising is the arm you use to lift a drink to your mouth..

----------


## Neverna

> ^ Thanks for sharing, Neverna. I'll check this out. I do HIIT occasionally on an AM fasted stomach. I'm due to start HIIT again soon.


I need to do more stomach work. Here's what Arnold has to say on losing belly fat.

----------


## Grampa

> ^ There is about as much truth in that post as the one you made saying you would only post in sports a few days ago.  The only thing you are exercising is the arm you use to lift a drink to your mouth..


Why lie about a generic gym routine?

It reveals how stupid and lazy you are.

----------


## Grampa

> I need to do more stomach work. Here's what Arnold has to say on losing belly fat.


Losing belly fat is about reducing body fat percentage for your entire body 

Spot reduction is a myth.

----------


## Grampa

*Today: Legs.*

*Pre-workout meal:* 

4 scrambed eggs with 1 slice of chees. 1/2 cup of oats w/ Cinnamon.

10 mg of Zinc


Squats X 4

Ham raises (machine) X 3

Sitting Calf raises to 60 reps.

Standing calf raises (on squat machine) up to only 82 reps total for calves.


My calves were burning. Perhaps b/c of the Farmer's Walk the day before. 


*Post-workout meal.*

1 cup of white rice and a pork chop (no shake). 

Had a 30 grams Isolate Whey Protein shake 2 hours after my Post-WO-meal.

----------


## Chico

Are you in training to be a mass murderer.? ::chitown:: 

How many guns do you own.?

----------


## Grampa

> Are you in training to be a mass murderer.?
> 
> How many guns do you own.?


Been lifting on an off since I was a teen.

Not sure what you mean.

But I want to look big as possible by December 12th.

----------


## Grampa

*Today: Back & Biceps*


*Pre-workout meal:* same as before this week (but will change next week)

*
Back:*

T-bar row (on a padded plate) wide grip X 4

Barbell row (from the floor, free raise) x 2

Push down, cable bar X 4

Lat pull down, palms forward X 3 - wide grip on bar

Angle iron pull down (very narrow grip, cable) X 2

*
Biceps:*

Sitting DB curls X 3

Standing cable curls X 3

Arnold Curls X 3

Barbell Preacher curls X 3


*not counting reps b/c I increased the weight. I'm only counting sets for a couple of week. I hit them until the burn.


*Post workout meal:* 1 cup of white rice, pork chop (no shake).


Took 25 gms of Whey 2 hours later. 


*I have to do padded/plated T-bar rows b/c my gym got rid of the free raise platform. This sux b/c that exercise hit my back the best and when I use the free Barbell t-row off of the floor it does not hit my back the same.

*Pre and post-workout meal will change tomorrow.

I'll do oats about 1:45-2 hours before with the eggs for Pre-workout and for post-workout, Protein, w/ Extra Virgin Olive Oil, but no carbs at all. 0 carbs until 2 hours later when I'll eat complex carb (oats).

----------


## Grampa

When Neverna asked me the size of my Bis & Tris (arms) I told her.

My arms are not that big.

But Davis sent a very nasty repo comment that I cannot repeat here, and he also said I was lying.

Well, Davis: here are YOUR arms:




You're old girlfriend at your high school reunion:

----------


## Neverna

Stick up a photo, gramps. Let's see them bulging biceps.

----------


## Grampa

> Stick up a photo, gramps. Let's see them bulging biceps.


You asked for it, you got it:

----------


## AntRobertson

> When Neverna asked me the size of my Bis & Tris (arms) I told her.
> 
> My arms are not that big.
> 
> But Davis sent a very nasty repo comment that I cannot repeat here, and he also said I was lying.





> Stick up a photo, gramps. Let's see them bulging biceps.





> You asked for it, you got it:


He was right. You were lying. Again.

This whole thread's probably a lie and you don't even work out. Just another fat, cheeseburger-eating, slob.

----------


## Neverna

> You asked for it, you got it:


Uhh, yours, not some old Austrian dude who no longer works out. 

Come on, Gramps. Stop with the BS or I might start calling you names. How does Black Fart sound to you? (just for a warm up)

----------


## aging one

its quite simple Pizza boy is going through life like this.

----------


## Grampa

> Uhh, yours, not some old Austrian dude who no longer works out. 
> 
> Come on, Gramps. Stop with the BS or I might start calling you names. How does Black Fart sound to you? (just for a warm up)


OK, I will try to take an arm shot with my phone.

Then what do I do? Email it to myself, save it and then put it on the forum?

I'm not too tech savvy. 

And *AV*, I'm rolling babe. I'm lovin' life and livin' it to the fullest.  :Yup:

----------


## Grampa

On an additional note related to my training:

Last night I was riding a bycicle and the front tire slid on a crevass and one of the square plates in the road. 

Me and my bike went down.

I pulled my left hamstring b/c my leg (instinct?) stayed straight and the handle-bars hit my lower part of the right chest hard. I also have a nasty road rash on my right knee cap.

I'm sore. 

It hurts to roll over in bed, and to stand up and sit down.

Obviously, I'll not be training until this heals. I am assuming 4 days (hopefully).  :Disappointed:

----------


## AntRobertson

> my training


Barbara at the gym:

----------


## Farangrakthai

> He was right. You were lying. Again.
> 
> This whole thread's probably a lie and you don't even work out. Just another fat, cheeseburger-eating, slob.


ant is in his element.

 ::doglol::

----------


## AntRobertson

Oh look, it's the other delusional fantasist.

----------


## Grampa

Ant, I think you should post _your_ training regimen.

You don't post your routine.

Because this is the only one you got:

----------


## AntRobertson

> Ant, I think you should post your training regimen.
> 
> You don't post your routine.


Already have you dumb fuck.

Let's compare physiques then Barbara.

You go first.  ::chitown::

----------


## AntRobertson

Yep, that's what I thought.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Grampa

> Already have you dumb fuck.


Uh.....where?




> Let's compare physiques then Barbara.
> 
> *You go first*.


Post a pic of my on this forum to vindictive old grumpy men who have trolled Panama Hat, Machangezi, and Chitown in _real_ life.

No way, José.

I'm a regular poster on a bodybuilding forum already. I've been a member for over 10 years. And no, it's not "bodybuilding . com." That's for airheads and newbies.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Uh.....where?


Uh... In this thread you dumb fuck.




> Post a pic of my on this forum to vindictive old grumpy men who have trolled Panama Hat, Machangezi, and Chitown in real life.
> 
> No way, José.
> 
> I'm a regular poster on a bodybuilding forum already. I've been a member for over 10 years. And no, it's not "bodybuilding . com." That's for airheads and newbies.


You're full 'o shite.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Grampa

> Uh... In this thread you dumb fuck.
> 
> 
> 
> *You're full 'o shite.
> 
> *



Actually, I erred.

I'm a member of 2 bodybuilding sites. 

One since 2003 and one since 2007. I have thousands of posts there, but like many forums, they are a lot slower than in the past. 


You'll never guess my niks there.

----------


## AntRobertson

I doubt anyone cares, Barbara.

I'd certainly be surprised if anyone actually thought you were legitimately knowledgeable on exercise and nutrition and not just some cut 'n pasting fat fuck try-hard.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Grampa

> I doubt anyone cares, Barbara.
> 
> I'd certainly be surprised if anyone actually thought you were legitimately knowledgeable on exercise and nutrition and not just some cut 'n pasting fat fuck try-hard.


I read up quite a bit on nutrition and the body.  :Yup:

----------


## cyrille

Read this red comment, you twat.

 :agro:

----------


## Switch

> When Neverna asked me the size of my Bis & Tris (arms) I told her.
> 
> My arms are not that big.
> 
> But Davis sent a very nasty repo comment that I cannot repeat here, and he also said I was lying.
> 
> Well, Davis: here are YOUR arms:
> 
> 
> ...


o
Says the nerd who is made from soggy noodles. Lifting wafer biscuits is sure tough huh?

----------


## Grampa

> o
> Says the nerd who is made from soggy noodles. Lifting wafer biscuits is sure tough huh?


I rarely eat egg noodles, bro'.

Someone sent me a message saying that he thing Camel Toe has passed away. If so, then I think you're Panama Hat.

----------


## Grampa

Off again today b/c of my bicycle I njury.

I increased my daily Zinc dosage to 30 grams per day in an attempt to raise my T-levels.

----------


## Grampa

OK, I've improved from my bicycle injury but I'm not 100% yet.

But today I returned to the Iron after 6 days off b/c of the wreck.


Because I'm still 'walking wounded' I won't be dong Leg Day or certain exercises.


*Today: Shoulders:

*
Sitting DB lat raises - 105 reps

Standing cable pull back (to upper chest) for Rear Delts X 3

Y-rope pull back (to mouth level) for Rear Delts X 3

Narrow Grip Cable Upright-rows X 2 (to get the blood flowing into the traps). I don't do these heavy b/c of 2 previous injuries dong them heavy.

DB shrugs X 118 reps.

I did drop sets on these and for the last 25 or so, help up on contraction for a 3-second count before lowering (going eccentric).

Standing plate raise (for Traps) X 2

Smith bar shrugs, ~15 reps.


Time 39 minutes. 


Pre and post, basically the same, but I had about 3/4 cup of white for post w/o and NO Carbs at all for Pre-workout, just 4 whole scrambled eggs with nothing.

90 minutes after my post workout meal, I had 35 grams of Whey.


*I could not do Barbell Shrugs today b/c a guy was using the rack (for a long time).

*I did not do the Farmer's Walk b/c my left hamstring is still sensitive and recovering. 


Tomorrow I will warm up my Hams with a stationary bike and then try to carefully do ham stretches to see where i am at.

----------


## Switch

> OK, I've improved from my bicycle injury but I'm not 100% yet.
> 
> But today I returned to the Iron after 6 days off b/c of the wreck.
> 
> 
> Because I'm still 'walking wounded' I won't be dong Leg Day or certain exercises.
> 
> 
> *Today: Shoulders:
> ...


Just out of interest, which blog/magazine is this cut and paste from?

----------


## Grampa

> Just out of interest, which blog/magazine is this cut and paste from?


It's all from me.

I've been lifting since high school, foo'.

There is nothing unique or special about this shoulder routine - unless you're a wrinkled old man he's out of shape on TD.

----------


## Switch

> It's all from me.
> 
> I've been lifting since high school, foo'.
> 
> There is nothing unique or special about this shoulder routine - unless you're a wrinkled old man he's out of shape on TD.


I have reported your post for stating multiple falsehoods.

----------


## Grampa

> I have reported your post for stating multiple falsehoods.


i have reported your post for stalking and trolling.

Enjoy your time in the TD jail, buddy.

----------


## cyrille

So much for 'ignore'. 

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Grampa

> So much for 'ignore'.


If Switch and Ant put me on ignore it would be better for them.  :Yup: 

I'm getting ready for Back & Bicep day.

I'll be _Killing It_ in about an hour.

----------


## aging one

You must be a lot like Homer....

----------


## Grampa

> You must be a lot like Homer....


I'm not a bodybuilder. I'm not into "big muscles" - I am trying to get bigger in case I go to jail. But most importantly, I'm trying to be healthy in middle-age.

You posted that pic saying it was like me.

Here's my vid of what is you: AO's workout. Sleeping on a couch in the gym.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_co...&v=c03CGhbuby0

----------


## Grampa

Now, back to business:

Just got back from the Iron Warehouse.


*Today: Back (only):*

Pre-workout: cup o' noodles and then 25 grams of Whey about 2 hours later. I wasn't hungry for breakfast so I didn't eat a full meal. Just listening to my body;


Back:

1. T-bar row plated X 4

2. Barbell Row X 1

3. Cable Push Down X 4

4. Lat Pull down (wide grip) X 3

5. Angle iron (very narrow grip) pull down X 2

6. Cable Mid-Row X 3

7. Back Extension (Machine X 3).



During the workout I cancelled hitting my biceps until tomorrow and I'll Biceps and Triceps. 

Reason. During the Lat pull down and especially during the Cable Mid-row I felt my forearms burning and getting pretty puffed up. I could feel it in my biceps also.

I only focused on my back. 

Post workout: Pork chop, and between 1/2 to 3/4 cup of white rice.

At the 90 minute mark, I'll take 30 grams of Whey and then go walking for at least an hour with my heart beat between 120-128 beats per minute.

I've lost 2 kilos (4.4 lbs), but this is likely water weight as I've lowered my daily carb intake. I'm also reducing calories.

----------


## Switch

^..... so no actual proof then, from a proven liar. More c&p.

----------


## Grampa

> ^..... so no actual proof then, from a proven liar. More c&p.


Yeah, Switch. 

I've been lying. 

You see, I want to impress old TD posters to think I am some big hunk. some stud.

It's very important to me, what anonymous posters think of me on a forum thousands of miles away.

So here is the truth......Drum roll.

I'm a 650+ pound virgin. 


Finally, the truth.

----------


## AntRobertson

> I'm a 650+ pound virgin.


The thing of it though is that is actually more believable than the other stuff you post in this thread.

----------


## Grampa

AO just sent a notification message asking "is this really your life?"

When I post a normal lifting regimen, which is not spectacular, I'm a liar.

When I post about being a 650 lb virgin, I'm believable.


 :rofl:

----------


## cyrille

> When I post a normal lifting regimen, which is not spectacular, I'm a liar.
> 
> When I post about being a 650 lb virgin, I'm believable.


Ummm...yeah.

Looks like you've got it.

----------


## Grampa

Here's a rant about Planet Fitness.

A shit chain that caters to the demographic of lazy fat slobs who are intimidated by going to a gym.

Heavy breathing will get you kicked out of the gym and you'll have your membership cancelled.

No overhead presses/exercises, b/c it "intimidates" people.

No squat rack b/c it "intimidates" people.

----------


## cyrille

Just one thing missing there.

Why the fuck should anyone care?

----------


## AntRobertson

He cares because as a 650lb virgin he gets intimidated when he goes to the gym.

----------


## Grampa

> Just one thing missing there.
> 
> Why the fuck should anyone care?


You. 

You're posting.   :Smile:

----------


## Grampa

I just got a red saying "this video sucked."

Sorry.

I'll find a better one.

----------


## Grampa

OK, I gotta up my game:

This guy got kicked out of Planet Shitness for breathin' hard.

----------


## Grampa

Here's some redemtion, I hope.

Short Arnie clip of BB row:

----------


## cyrille

Someone hand this twat his sixth cabbage.

----------


## Grampa

> Someone hand this twat his sixth cabbage.


"Give it to me baby....uh-huh, uh-huh."  :Yup:

----------


## Grampa

Today:

Legs


No need to post the sets. Same as usual except I change the order of hitting calve before Hams on the Ham raise.

Hit the hams very light b/c of the recent injury. The good news is that I feel fine. It's still a tight deep inside when trying to do Standing Ham stretches.

----------


## Neverna

> OK, I gotta up my game:
> 
> This guy got kicked out of Planet Shitness for breathin' hard.


Congratulations. Game officially upped. 




> Here's some redemtion, I hope.
> 
> Short Arnie clip of BB row:


Kick that guy outa the gym. He's too noisy.

----------


## Grampa

I'll post a short news report later of a woman who was told to cover up at planet fitness for being "too fit. " No joke.  

The noisy one is Arnold in the 1970s.

----------


## Neverna

> The noisy one is Arnold in the 1970s.


Please give me some credit for being able to work that out for myself from watching the video and reading the title.

----------


## Grampa

OK. 

No harm,  no foul. 

I'm starting Creatine tomorrow after a long hiatus.

----------


## Neverna

Why do you use creatine? What does it do for you?

----------


## Grampa

> Why do you use creatine? What does it do for you?


Why?

B/c it works: more strength, more reps.

Water retension means you "look bigger" but you ARE bigger b/c of the water.

In the 90s when I was younger I had no problems with Creatine. When I started it again 5 years ago I got very bloated and had gastro-intestinal problems.

So, I'm taking the risk again.

But...I will only take a 1/2 teaspoon per day in the morning in warm water (for better absorbtion) and a 1/2 teaspoon should be just under 3 grams. 

If it does not work, OK, I'm done with Creatine. But I'll give it a go again.

----------


## Neverna

> Why?
> 
> B/c it works: more strength, more reps.
> 
> Water retension means you "look bigger" but you ARE bigger b/c of the water.
> 
> In the 90s when I was younger I had no problems with Creatine. When I started it again 5 years ago I got very bloated and had gastro-intestinal problems.
> 
> So, I'm taking the risk again.
> ...


I tried it briefly about 25 years ago. I didn't feel it gave me any positive benefits so I stopped. All I got was muscle cramp from it, perhaps because of excess water. I sometimes get the same if I drink an electrolyte drink before running.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Water retension means you "look bigger" but you ARE bigger b/c of the water.


You're a 650 lb virgin, just how much bigger do you want to be??  :Confused:

----------


## Grampa

> I tried it briefly about 25 years ago. I didn't feel it gave me any positive benefits so I stopped. All I got was muscle cramp from it, perhaps because of excess water. I sometimes get the same if I drink an electrolyte drink before running.


Yes, you have to increase your water intake while on Creatine. 

For me it helped, but I think my goals may have been different than yours. I wanted (and still want) to increase strength to a degree to complete more reps (and to a lesser extent more weight when I change my routine to go higher weight and less reps.

There have been numerous valid studies conducted and it effective and safe (for most folks). 

As noted, I had bloated problems last time I tried it.

I took 1/2 a teaspoon about an hour ago in warm water. That's about 3.5 grams, maybe 4. 

I'll hit the gym in about 45 min to an hour. 

I'll how it works this go around.

----------


## Grampa

*Today: Chest & Triceps*


*Chest:*

Barbell incline press X 5 for 55 reps - will increase weight and reps next week

DB bench press X 2 for 20 reps


*Triceps:*

Total reps: 167



*Exercises:* 

Cable bar pushdown

Y-rope overhead pull

Angle iron push down

Cable kickback

Standing one-arm cable handle push down

Y-rope cable push down 

cable bar push down to finish




Pre & Post meals, basically the same.


*Creatine cycle started:*


I had 1/2 teaspoon of Creatine Monohydrate and 1 1/2 hours or so before the workout. No bloating. Felt good.

Therefore, I had another 1/2 teaspoon after my post workout meal.

An even teaspoon is 3 grams each, for a total of six grams.

Today I started Creatine again. I don't not believe in the "loading phase" and studies says it doesn't help and it's marketing BS in order for you to use more product.

When you take creatine make sure to ad it to _warm water_ and stir it thoroughly until it dissolves and you can can't see it.

Undissolved Creating does NOT get absorbed by your body. 


*I do not do many exercises or reps for chest b/c (as I think I noted) I am getting a sagging chest downward and to the sides. Genetics, and body comp. I don't do flies much anymore because it looks go when you have shirt on but awful without a shirt on. Gravity.

----------


## Grampa

*Today: Shoulders.*


A little variation is exercises and weight variation on one exercise:


1. Sitting and standing DB Lat Raises = 72 reps.

Started with 15 lbs X 2, 25 lbs. X 2 15, lbs. X 1, 20 lbs X 2

*changing the weight up.


2. Standing 3/4 cable Upright Row X 5. 

*these are not standing up straight cable Upright Rows but standing further back from the weight stack/cable, starting at about the knees and pulling up _and back._

3. Standing straight upright cable rows X 2

4. barbell Shrugs about 60 reps and DB shrugs to a total 212 reps for combined BB/DB total.

5. Plate Raise - full motion - all the way up and down. This also hits your lower traps.


Not done: no farmer's walk, and no rear delt exercises today.

----------


## Neverna

I did squats, sit ups, press ups, crunches, dumbell curls, shoulder raises, tricep thingies and lat pulls. 

Watch your back, Arnold. I'm a-comin'.

----------


## Grampa

> I did squats, sit ups, press ups, crunches, dumbell curls, shoulder raises, tricep thingies and lat pulls. 
> 
> Watch your back, Arnold. I'm a-comin'.


Thank you for sharing.

This thread needs fresh blood.  :Headbang:

----------


## Grampa

*Today: Back & Biceps.

**0 carbs per day at the moment.*

----------


## Neverna

> *0 carbs per day at the moment.*


How did you manage that? I'd be really surprised if it was true.

----------


## Grampa

> How did you manage that? I'd be really surprised if it was true.


OK, I had some minute carbs from about 3-4 string beans and a little cabbage, less than a 10th of a cup. So yes, I did have some carbs.

I should have clarified.

I also stopped Creatine as my 2 doses bloated slowly over time.

I've dropped 2 kilos (of water weight)

I now know I cannot take ANY creatine!


My body cannot handle it.

I'll kill it, pump, and also reduce my pre and post workout carb input. My body just can't handle it.

----------


## cyrille

> I shouldn't have lied in an utterly pathetic attempt to get attention.


fixed.

----------


## AntRobertson

> OK, I had some minute carbs from about 3-4 string beans and a little cabbage, less than a 10th of a cup. So yes, I did have some carbs.
> 
> I should have clarified.
> 
> I also stopped Creatine as my 2 doses bloated slowly over time.
> 
> I've dropped 2 kilos (of water weight)
> 
> I now know I cannot take ANY creatine!
> ...

----------


## Grampa

^ Ant, that's you on your daily posting here on TD.

As for me, FTFY:

----------


## AntRobertson

> Ant, that's you on your daily posting here on TD


So, basically, your 'retort' amounts to: 'I know you are you said you are...'.

That's shit even by your usual incredibly shit standards.




> As for me, FTFY


Yeah we both know that's about as far from the reality as it's possible to get.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Neverna

> ^ Ant, that's you on your daily posting here on TD.
> 
> As for me, FTFY:


Wow. What a photo, what a hunk. It is such good exercise looking at that image. It has really enlarged and firmed up my groin muscles. Thanks Gramps.  


 :Smile:

----------


## Grampa

> Wow. What a photo, what a hunk. It is such good exercise looking at that image. It has really enlarged and firmed up my groin muscles. Thanks Gramps.


You want my number, just ask, sweets.

----------


## Grampa

*Today: Shoulders.


*No need to a detailed split report.

Same as before, but I added 1 new exercise and did not do, Farmer's Carry today (my grip was shot by the time I was finished with BB and DB shrugs.

The new exercise I added was:

_Cable-shrug-pull back-turn_ for Traps.


You stand 3 feet form the cable which is on the ground with a clasp. One arm movement at a time.

You shrug, but straight up and down, but at a 3/4 angle. Keep your arm as straight as possible. When you shrug it as far as you can, keep your arm as straigt as possible and turn you trap/shoulder/body back around more.

You will feel this hitting your traps.

----------


## Grampa

Today: 

*Chest & Triceps.*


Mostly the same routine. 

Reps for Triceps in total = 132

After my post workout meal (got hungry for rice and had 1 1/2 cups....ah too much.....I waited 60 minutes and went on a medium paced walk for 44 minutes.  I didn't check the heart beat more than 5 seconds, but knew I was over 120 HBP.

----------


## Switch

You will die in prison from Anal fisting. Quit telling fibs about exercise and get your anus stretched in preparation. You will still bleed to death from the fissures, just much more slowly and painfully.

----------


## Grampa

> You will die in prison from Anal fisting. Quit telling fibs about exercise and get your anus stretched in preparation. You will still bleed to death from the fissures, just much more slowly and painfully.


Bad news for you, troll.

I'm gonna beat the rap.

The DA wants to keep charging me with negligent driving in a plea deal. I say - I tell my lawyer "no."

They don't have a strong case. Dec 12th. We will know. They may drop it.


And I'd like to say to you: F-off!

----------


## Grampa

Here's Switch's contribution to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_co...&v=c03CGhbuby0

----------


## AntRobertson

> medium paced walk for 44 minutes. I didn't check the heart beat more than 5 seconds, but knew I was over 120 HBP.


If your heart rate is at 120 BPM (what the fuck is HBP) from walking then you're clearly in very poor shape.

----------


## taxexile

Hey pissflaps, you bigmouthed fool, why dont you post that half naked  selfie over  here, the  rear end baboon butt underpants  beefcake shot thats all over the other forum.  I bet you nearly cricked your neck taking it.

This thread needs a good laugh, and you are the oaf we love to laugh at.

----------


## AntRobertson

... aren't you supposed to be pretending to have me on ignore?  :Sad:

----------


## Grampa

> If your heart rate is at 120 BPM (what the fuck is HBP) from walking then you're clearly in very poor shape.


You're asking "what is HPB" but then saying, "you're clearly in poor shape."

Let me explain it to you, numbnutz. 

HBP = Heart Beats Per (minute) that same a HBM. Both are used.

I walk at a pace to keep my heart beat per minute between 120 and 130. I don't want to go over 130 on certain days.

On nonlifting days I sometimes go HIIT or above 130 to 140ish.

----------


## Neverna

What do you estimate your maximum heart rate to be, Gramps? 

And what is a typical resting heart rate for you? (nowadays mine is between 42 and 45)

----------


## AntRobertson

> _medium paced walk_





> I walk at a pace to keep my heart beat per minute between 120 and 130.


Are you morbidly obsese.

 ::chitown::

----------


## cyrille

> You're asking "what is HPB" but then saying, "you're clearly in poor shape."
> 
> Let me explain it to you, numbnutz. 
> 
> HBP = Heart Beats Per (minute) that same a HBM...


So what is "HPB"?

(Answer that makes sense appreciated)

----------


## Grampa

> What do you estimate your maximum heart rate to be, Gramps? 
> 
> And what is a typical resting heart rate for you? (nowadays mine is between 42 and 45)


I don't know my resting heart rate.

Give me a week and I shall report it to you.


I only check heart rate when doing fat usage cardio which I want above 120 but below 130 per minute.

----------


## Grampa

> So what is "HPB"?
> 
> (Answer that makes sense appreciated)


The question was answered.


I know you're an English teacher and you likely have low mental capabilities. 

But think about what I posted in response to the query you are addressing.

----------


## Neverna

> I don't know my resting heart rate.
> 
> Give me a week and I shall report it to you.
> 
> 
> I only check heart rate when doing fat usage cardio which I want above 120 but below 130 per minute.


Fair enough, but why do you choose those numbers? What are they based on?

----------


## AntRobertson

> I don't know my resting heart rate.
> 
> Give me a week and I shall report it to you.
> 
> 
> I only check heart rate when doing fat usage cardio which I want above 120 but below 130 per minute.


See, this is where the gap between what you cut 'n paste and your actual lack of knowledge becomes most apparent.

 ::chitown::

----------


## Grampa

> Fair enough, but why do you choose those numbers? What are they based on?


120-130 the body will utilize fat for energy if your glycogen levels in your liver are depleted --> when you wake up in the morning in a fasted state, or if you have not even in about 3+ hours. 

And yes, there will be disagreement from trainers and BBers on this, as well as "this study said this," but "this study said that.

One thing that is agreed upon is that cardio at 120-130 HBP for 30 minutes after an intense lifting session will not cause you to lose muscle b/c the glycogen stores in the liver are depleted b/c they were used to fuel the lifting workout. 

If I eat a meal and wait and hour or 1 1/2 hour to do cardio, I can do high level cardio, or HIIT and use the carbs in the food for fuel.

----------


## Neverna

> 120-130 the body will utilize fat for energy if your glycogen levels in your liver are depleted --> when you wake up in the morning in a fasted state, or if you have not even in about 3+ hours.


I don't think it's quite as simple as that, Gramps. But if that works for you, fair enough. 




> One thing that is agreed upon is that cardio at 120-130 HBP for 30 minutes after an intense lifting session will not cause you to lose muscle b/c the glycogen stores in the liver are depleted b/c they were used to fuel the lifting workout.


I'm interested in your "depleted glycogen" comments. Is it important for you to be in such a state before doing cardio? (If so, why?) Or is it just coincidental because you usually do cardio after a heavy gym session?

----------


## Grampa

> I'm interested in your "depleted glycogen" comments. Is it important for you to be in such a state before doing cardio? (If so, why?) Or is it just coincidental because you usually do cardio after a heavy gym session?


_Since (almost) nobody believes a word I say, I'll post some articles/studies.

And to preface, do some form of cardio on an AM wake without breakfast (which is a fast) and you will indeed notice more fat disappearing.

Here is an article:
_
*The Fat Burning Mechanism – Glycogen Depletion*

*Cardiovascular Fitness, Lose Fat

A large number of people go to the gym, hoping they will burn fat and lose excess weight,  without even knowing how the “fat-burning” mechanism actually works. If you want to lose fat, it is absolutely important to know what the body uses as energy source.

**The Fat Burning Mechanism - Glycogen Depletion - Fitness and Power


**Our body uses glycogen as a primary source of energy. Glycogen is actually the storage form of glucose (carbohydrates) in animals and humans.It is stored in the liver and muscles.When there is no glycogen available, the body will reach for its secondary energy source – stored fat and muscle protein.

An average person has to do about 30-40 minutes of moderate intensity cardio in order to burn the stored glycogen. This means that if you do cardio for an hour, you are burning fat only the last 20 to 30 minutes, while the first 30-40 minutes you are only depleting your glycogen stores.

There are a few ways to burn mostly fat when you do your cardio workout:

–Do morning cardio or fasted cardio sessions.When your body goes longer periods without food (like fasting or 8-9 hour sleep) it depletes glycogen in order to sustain itself.This is why morning cardio will burn mostly fat.It is a good idea to take a protein shake or BCAA prior to the workout to prevent muscle breakdown.

–Work with weights before the cardio session.Weight training is a glycogen depleting activity and it is a good practice to do your weight workout before the cardiovascular workout.

–Modify your diet and lower the amount of carbohydrates you are consuming. This way the body will not have excess carbohydrates that can be stored as glycogen, so even light activities will burn fat.Many diets are built around the idea of reduction of carbs – just take the Atkins diet for example (lots of protein and fats, but almost no carbs)

Knowing what glycogen is and how your body uses it will certainly help you maximize your cardio sessions to burn the maximum amount of fat, but this is not the only factor that comes into play when trying to lose fat.  Below are a few other tips that will help you to lose fat.*

http://www.fitnessandpower.com/training/cardiovascular-fitness/the-fat-burning-mechanism-glycogen-depletion

----------


## Grampa

^ please note: I disagree that you need to take a protein shake before a fast AM cardio to keep your body from eating into muscle.

But of course, this is ( as usual) disputed.

*Taking a BCAAs will cause an INSULINE SPIKE! Avoid BCAAs if you want to burn off / use fat as an energy! It's been proven!

Our ancestors were foraging and hunting for food. Our bodies did not and do not have a stop-watch saying, "oh we need protein or a protein shake.

Again, you decide.


Look at the science, NOT "Bro science" which has no been debunked.

Google "Bro science."

----------


## Grampa

_Here's why I do 120 to 130 PBP at certain times. Because I'm in a fasted state and want to use fat as an energy source and not carbs/glycogen/muscle:_

*Best of Both*

While changing nutritional strategies can lead to a switch in your main fuel source, you will always burn both carbs and fat during exercise. One of the main factors, aside from diet, that influences the ratio of fat burning to carb burning is exercise intensity. _At low intensities your body will turn to fat for energy, but as you start to train harder, it will switch to burning more glycogen,_ notes Dr. Edward Coyle of the Gatorade Sports Science Institute.

_Entire article:_

https://www.livestrong.com/article/3...t-vs-glycogen/

----------


## uncle junior

^How much yard time they giving you per week, convict?

----------


## Neverna

> _Here's why I do 120 to 130 PBP at certain times. Because I'm in a fasted state and want to use fat as an energy source and not carbs/glycogen/muscle:_
> 
> *Best of Both*
> 
> While changing nutritional strategies can lead to a switch in your main fuel source, you will always burn both carbs and fat during exercise. One of the main factors, aside from diet, that influences the ratio of fat burning to carb burning is exercise intensity. _At low intensities your body will turn to fat for energy, but as you start to train harder, it will switch to burning more glycogen,_ notes Dr. Edward Coyle of the Gatorade Sports Science Institute.


The important thing is the intensity, not the heart rate per se. Yes, they are related to some extent, but to pick 120-130 bpm just because you read it somewhere, makes no sense at all. But if it's 120-130 because for you that is low intensity, then that's OK. For some people 130 would not be low intensity. For some it would.

One other point I'd make is that, IMVHO, you're more at risk of injury when you train with muscles that have been depleted of glycogen.

----------


## Grampa

> The important thing is the intensity, not the heart rate per se. Yes, they are related to some extent, but to pick 120-130 bpm just because you read it somewhere, makes no sense at all. But if it's 120-130 because for you that is low intensity, then that's OK. For some people 130 would not be low intensity. For some it would.
> 
> One other point I'd make is that, IMVHO, you're more at risk of injury when you train with muscles that have been depleted of glycogen.


For cardio I do real walking (around the neighborhood), stationary bike and treadmill. Very simple, low impact.

The HPB 120 to 130 is proven. I don't want to go into aenorobic zones most of the time.

The glycogen depletion occurs during the workout, so by the end of the workout it's depleted.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Since (almost) nobody believes a word I say


Gee, I wonder why that could be.

----------


## Grampa

Earlier today: Chest & Tri

Yesterday: Back & Bi


Pretty much the same exercises with increased weight.

Will vary things up exercise-wise in 2 week.

----------


## Grampa

*Today:*

HIIT 

21 minutes. 

Fasted HIIT starting at 12:15 pm. Had not eaten any breakfast or any food before.

Waited 45 minutes after finishing to eat 3 whole eggs and a small cup of yoghurt (no sugar, no sweetner).

----------


## Neverna

> HIIT 
> 
> 21 minutes. 
> 
> Fasted HIIT starting at 12:15 pm. Had not eaten any breakfast or any food before.


So your heart rate was much higher than 120-130 bpm.

----------


## Grampa

> So your heart rate was much higher than 120-130 bpm.


For a short time,  yes. 

Up and down with HIIT. 

I'll do it again tomorrow after getting up.  Then lift in the afternoon.

----------


## Grampa

Been busy.

Today: HIIT at Noon on a fasted stomach, as I had not eaten since about 7 PM the night before.

I'm now dropping kilos. 

Your body adapts to IF (Intermittent fasting) and eating smaller meals and less frequently. I do NOT get hungry.

Happy with my progress in dropping kilos (lbs. in the US). I will continue this goal and journey. 

Still lifting, when work permits.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Still lifting, when work permits





> I'm retired


...  ::chitown::

----------


## Grampa

I retired,  and then came out of retirement to work. 

I can't golf, fish, and travel the world year-round.  I lose focus. 

 ::chitown::

----------


## AntRobertson

> I retired,  and then came out of retirement to work.


You were unemployed.

----------


## Troy

> 120-130 the body will utilize fat for energy if your glycogen levels in your liver are depleted --> when you wake up in the morning in a fasted state, or if you have not even in about 3+ hours. 
> 
> And yes, there will be disagreement from trainers and BBers on this, as well as "this study said this," but "this study said that.


I'm not sure where you get your numbers from but the rule of thumb I remember is max heart rate = 200 - your age. Never go above that figure for any length of time. Exercise until you get your heart rate lower for the same routine and then extend. You'll lose weight slowly but safely and feel a lot better for it.

----------


## Grampa

> I'm not sure where you get your numbers from but the rule of thumb I remember is max heart rate = 200 - your age. Never go above that figure for any length of time. Exercise until you get your heart rate lower for the same routine and then extend. You'll lose weight slowly but safely and feel a lot better for it.


That number is documented in many places. Worth noting is that I'm not dogmatic. 

Basically, workout, eat wisely seleted foods = progress.

HIIT is supported by numerous studies.

You go all out (in reality probably 95%) for a short duration. I can only go 20 seconds, then you basically stop. I step off the exercise bike and stand.

In the beginning (first few minutes) i take a one-minute stoppage/break.

After about the 11 minute mark I have to wait 1:30 and by about 18:00 2 minute stoppage.

I do maximum 21 minutes. 

After that your body may tap into muscle.

You will be breathing heavy as a dog. 


*Do this on a fast (which is not the same as an empty stomach). 

*wait 45 minutes to 1 hour to eat after - no longer than an hour. 

You will also have increased metabolic breakdown for the next 24 hours.


Note, this is a scientifically proven fact: HIIT will blow away moderate cardio that you do for say 30 to 45 minutes or more.

I have lost 5.5 kilos in about 2 weeks.


Edit in: 

Of course, HIIT is only one part of the weight loss.

As for WOE (way of eating).

I eat my first meal after 12:00 and I have been eating very low carb. I don't count but probably less than 20 grams per day.

----------


## Grampa

And to add,

Today was shoulders.

Routine: increasing weight every 1 to 2 sets.


1. Standing DB lat raises - increasing weight every 2 sets - total reps 107

2. Standing Y-rope pull back X 3 

3. Standing cable bar pull back (3/4 motion only to hit rear delts) X 2

4. Barbell shrugs (from the rack) to 102 reps

5. DB shrugs to a total of 152 total reps (gripping was getting hard to do).

6. Standing plate raise X 3.

      -Raise the plate from your chin, both hands at the side and up over your head. Try not to bend elbows much. You will feel this           hitting your upper traps.


*with the barbell shrugs, after 100 reps, lift up and hold and squeeze for 4 seconds and lower it slowly.

I did the same the with the DB shrugs for the last few reps.

I also returned to the barbell rack and did static barbell holds heavy. This stretches your traps. You want to stretch your traps.


Not done: farmer's walk.


In about 2 weeks to switch to Reverse Pyramids and do that for 2-3 weeks. 

I did have about 3/4 cup of white rice as a post work out meal.

----------


## uncle junior

2000 mtrs. Freestyle.

----------


## happynz

I've been doing the same. The weather has cooled down to the mid-teens so a swim has to be accompanied by a bit of internal motivation (like "harden up, fucker"). I'm not that fast to be sure, but I've got my time for 2K mtrs to just a tick or two under 40 minutes. OK, OK, I'm slow, but hey...

 :Smile:

----------


## Grampa

I just received a repo comment from Neverna saying "you are full of sh*t. "

Please explain.  

Do you doubt the studies I noted on HIIT,  or my lifting routine? 

Your comment is not clear. 


And to further note,  I only do HIIT 2-3 times per week in Non-lifting days. And I will only do it once per week when I reach my goal. 

I'm obviously losing kilos also b/c I'm reducing caloric intake - this IS the most - important thing. 

"Diet is everything. "

Exercise just accelerates it.

----------


## Neverna

> I just received a repo comment from Neverna saying "you are full of sh*t. "
> 
> Please explain.  
> 
> Your comment is not clear.


Let me explain it in terms you will understand. 

"you are full of sh*t" 



> is proven





> is documented in many places





> this is a scientifically proven fact


All clear now?

----------


## Grampa

No.  

Show data. 

HIIT studies have been done for 15+ years. 

Show us the studies that negate HIIT. 

I'm waiting

----------


## Neverna

> No.  
> 
> Show data.


As you are a bit slow upstairs (and possibly drunk), I'll explain it to you. Those quotes are what you have posted in the last 2 pages of this thread. You posted such comments with no data to support your claims. I'm just echoing your BS. You just dismiss comments by others with "it's poven", "it's a fact", "it's documented". Well, sonny, it's documented that you are full of shit. You can find it documented here at Teakdoor. As it's well documented, it must be a "fact" - a Teakdoor fact. Of course, you don't have to like it or agree with it, but that won't change the "facts". 

Have a nice day, Gramps. Off to court tomorow, aren't you? Good luck. Don't forget to take some money with you to buy some KY Jelly in the prison shop. 

 :Smile:

----------


## Grampa

> As you are a bit slow upstairs (and possibly drunk), I'll explain it to you. Those quotes are what you have posted in the last 2 pages of this thread. You posted such comments with no data to support your claims. I'm just echoing your BS. You just dismiss comments by others with "it's poven", "it's a fact", "it's documented". Well, sonny, it's documented that you are full of shit. You can find it documented here at Teakdoor. As it's well documented, it must be a "fact" - a Teakdoor fact. Of course, you don't have to like it or agree with it, but that won't change the "facts". 
> 
> Have a nice day, Gramps. Off to court tomorow, aren't you? Good luck. Don't forget to take some money with you to buy some KY Jelly in the prison shop.


I have been reading about and DOING - HIIT - on and off for over 10 years and you say I am lying?

No, you show that HIIT fasted does not work.

Why don't you? B/c you cannot.


You don't know sh*t.

You do not even workout, b/c you've never posted single fucking contribution on this thread except to say "bullshit."


Typical lazy TDer.

----------


## Neverna

Gramps, old man. Why the fuck are you rabbitting on about HIIT? I haven't mentioned it. It's you that's talking about HIIT. Not me. Calm down, lad, calm down.

----------


## Neverna

> You do not even workout


Got any proof of that, Milky Black Fart the multinicker? 




> you've never posted single fucking contribution on this thread except to say "bullshit."


Now that is not true. Was that a deliberate lie or are you intoxicated again?

----------


## Grampa

You're a troll who is an admin here.

You are another reason why TD is shit.

Fuck off [at][at][at][at].

----------


## Neverna

> You're a troll who is an admin here.
> 
> You are another reason why TD is shit.
> 
> Fuck off [at][at][at][at].


Isn't it time for you to change nics? Barbara, Snatch, Black Fart, Cold Pizza, Grampa.  :rofl:   Pick a better one next time. Loser.

----------


## Neverna

:rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:   :rofl:

----------


## AntRobertson

> You do not even workout


He probably gets more exercise than you do.

Cut 'n pasting your dribble on here doesn't burn many calories.

----------


## terry57

I'm usually the only Farang in the gym but today this Farang bint rolled up. 

The gym is full of machines which i prefer over free weights simply because you are made to use the correct technique, this avoids injury if not being silly and going to heavy. 

So I work out in 60 second breaks one machine at a time, the bint decides to jump in between my 60 second break and fuks with the weights.

Says fok all, just barges in there.  :yerman: 

Nasty Farang eh, no wonder i don't like em.

Just thought Id share.

Thanks eh.  :Smile:

----------


## Grampa

Thank you for contributing, Terry.

Much appreciated.

----------


## Neverna

^ Good morning! What time are you in court today, Gramps?

----------


## uncle junior

2500mtrs.

----------


## terry57

No Farang in my Gym yesterday.

All good, nice and cool as well.  :Smile: 

Rest day today, walk around looking at hot bitches.  :spam2:

----------


## Grampa

> Rest day today, walk around looking at hot bitches.


Yeah, being able do that in the West is rarity.

----------


## Grampa

Today:

Shoulders with emphasis on the traps.

1. Standing DB side lateral raise - 115 reps.

2. Standing cable Y-rope pull back to chin (rear delts) X 3

3. Standing 3/4 Cable Upright Row X 3

5. BB shrugs to to 56 reps.

6. DB shrugs to 127 reps.


Latter end of the DB shrugs was hold (up) for 3 seconds for several reps, and on other sets do static hold (down) to stretch the traps.


Below are some news exercises (for me at least) by James "Tiny" Vest for forearms.

I'll do these next time I hit arms.

----------


## Grampa

Large study Protein on requirements, what kind, and when:

As we've long thought, the food industry and supp industry is just ripping us off. F the supp companies.

.75 grams of protein per pound, not 1 gram, no "golden window" bullsh*t.

----------


## AntRobertson

> the food industry and supp industry is just ripping us off


Like you've ever been short-changed on a meal...

----------


## Grampa

That ain't me bro'.

I was never that fat, and I've leaned out quite a bit.

I'm still doing IF a few days per week and when I eat a daytime meal it's for post-workout meal.


 :Yup:

----------


## AntRobertson

IF is BS, fatty.

----------


## Grampa

Jason Genova is no longer with the Delray Misfits.

His 15 mintues are up.

----------


## Grampa

Arnold takes a recent tour through Venice and the old Gold's Gym. 

I liked this!

----------


## Grampa

*As a fan of the Golden Days of BBing, I had not seen this pic of Arnold before:

*

----------


## Grampa

Exercises to attract women. I knew most of these and I disagree with the "hip thrusters to make the booty bigger."

It's worth watching. Also, stay tuned for a future OP thread from me on "how to pick up chick successfully."

----------


## Switch

> Exercises to attract women. I knew most of these and I disagree with the "hip thrusters to make the booty bigger."
> 
> It's worth watching. Also, stay tuned for a future OP thread from me on "how to pick up chick successfully."


I’m not taking advice from a fat, short order cook, who just bragged that he no longer posted stupid video clips, ya wanker.

----------


## Switch

According to the BBC questionnaire my BMI (body mass index is 23.3. Healthy category. Not in jail on TD or in real life and I have an aversion to hopeless self help videos.
I did it all by myself using common sense. No diets, no fads or fakery, just burning more calories than I consumed, but enjoying a variety of food and drink that I enjoy.
The body is intuitive if you listen to it. Too much consumption of the wrong kind and the body will whisper, “get to the gym you fat fucker”.
Ignore the voices and you will suffer.

----------


## AntRobertson

> just burning more calories than I consumed


It is just that simple.

That's why all this Paleo-Vege-Low-Carb-Don't-Eat-X,Y or Z!-Blah-de-fucking-Blah stuff does me head in sometimes. Get the fuck outta here with that shit.

----------


## Switch

> It is just that simple.
> 
> That's why all this Paleo-Vege-Low-Carb-Don't-Eat-X,Y or Z!-Blah-de-fucking-Blah stuff does me head in sometimes. Get the fuck outta here with that shit.


How many times have governments come out publicly stating that certain foods are bad for you/unhealthy, only for some contrary Baffin to rubbish all that publicity and prove the opposite.
Eggs are the prime example of a healthy versatile food that has been the subject of almost annual health scares.
Ignore the fookers, all of them.

----------


## Pragmatic

> According to the BBC questionnaire my BMI (body mass index is 23.3. Healthy category.


 I thought all that BMI shit was debunked the other year?





> Last year, a study by UCLA concluded that tens of millions of people who had overweight and obese BMI scores were in fact perfectly healthy.


 https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a7894951.html

----------


## AntRobertson

> How many times have governments come out publicly stating that certain foods are bad for you/unhealthy, only for some contrary Baffin to rubbish all that publicity and prove the opposite.


I distinctly recall when the whole butter (i.e. fats) = bad thing came around and everyone and their dog were switching to margarine and everything was 'low-fat'.

Utter arse.




> I thought all that BMI shit was debunked the other year?


'Tis. It's certainly not the greatest or most accurate in isolation because it just ignores to many other factors and variables - it focuses on weight not composition - but it's still OK as a rough guideline.

By my own BMI I'm categorized as clinically obese.

Personally I prefer FFMI (Fat Free Mass Index). That gives a much clearer picture.

----------


## Switch

> I thought all that BMI shit was debunked the other year?
> 
> 
> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a7894951.html


If it says I am not a fat lazy bastard, I’m inclined to agree with it. I’m sure there are high tech modern medical methods of doing it.
Too complex for a simple old guy like me  :Smile:

----------


## Dasher

Anyone into rowing? I did 62 mins non stop today. Aiming for 70 next time.

----------


## Dasher

> It is just that simple.
> 
> That's why all this Paleo-Vege-Low-Carb-Don't-Eat-X,Y or Z!-Blah-de-fucking-Blah stuff does me head in sometimes. Get the fuck outta here with that shit.


Protein is filling. Carbs arent. That's why low carb works for many. Depends on exercise though. Gym junkies and athletes can eat lots more than a desk to sofa specialist.

----------


## Neverna

> Anyone into rowing? I did 62 mins non stop today. Aiming for 70 next time.


In a row boat or on a machine? 

I've done both but I don't have access to either these days.

----------


## uncle junior

1500 mtrs freestyle

----------


## Dasher

> In a row boat or on a machine? 
> 
> I've done both but I don't have access to either these days.


Water Machine max resistance.

----------


## AntRobertson

> Protein is filling. Carbs arent.


Depends on what you're talking about**: 240 cals of protein is x 2 scoops of ON powder, roughly the equivalent of 2.5 bananas. I'd find the latter a damn sight more filling.

Anyways not really the point I was trying to make. Consume more calories than you expend - from carbs or fats - and you're gonna put on weight (and vice-versa).

You can lose weight from eating nothing but McD's or you can gain it from eating nothing but broccoli.

----------


## Neverna

> Water Machine max resistance.


How do they compare to air rowers such as Concept 2?

----------


## Dasher

Scientifically proven protein is more filling.

----------


## Dasher

> How do they compare to air rowers such as Concept 2?


Only used old air rowers. Water provides more resistance.

----------


## AntRobertson

I swear this wasn’t intentional:



 :Very Happy:

----------


## AntRobertson

> Scientifically proven protein is more filling.


Cool story bro.

A tonne of feathers is as heavy as a tonne of steel. Scientifically proven by science.

----------


## Dasher

What is that?

----------


## Dasher

> Cool story bro.
> 
> A tonne of feathers is as heavy as a tonne of steel. Scientifically proven by science.


Look it up tool

----------


## AntRobertson

> What is that?


The map? It's a route-tracker thing: 'MapMyWalk'.

It was recommended in another thread but I confused them.




> Look it up tool


Nah.

Still a cool story bro.

----------


## Dasher

Walking around lost

----------


## AntRobertson

Well no, because I ended up back precisely where I started.

----------


## Switch

I’ve been looking for a rowing machine for ages. Not seen one in gyms I’ve visted or at the places I’ve stayed.
Looked to buy a used one online but they are pretty rare there too.
They appeal because of the range of muscle groups they exercise.

Looking at condos with a gym and pool next month. Maybe I’ll get lucky.

----------


## Dasher

> I’ve been looking for a rowing machine for ages. Not seen one in gyms I’ve visted or at the places I’ve stayed.
> Looked to buy a used one online but they are pretty rare there too.
> They appeal because of the range of muscle groups they exercise.
> 
> Looking at condos with a gym and pool next month. Maybe I’ll get lucky.


Great exercise. Put a good cd on and rip in.

I bought mine new on sale.

----------


## Troy

I ramped up to 3 x one-hour cycle rides a week and then two rides at the week-end. Completely f**ked me doing this on top of a 50-hour week. Thought I was bloody 30ish again! Thank goodness it is back to Thailand on Sunday and back to hot days, turning full beer glasses into empty ones in slow time. Hope the dog remembers how to open the fridge...

----------


## Pragmatic

Forget BMI. The new way to check if you're obese is to half your height and that should be your maximum waste measurement.   :ourrules:

----------


## uncle junior

^ just look down, if you can't see ur nutz ur a fatty

1750 mtrs

----------


## Neverna

> Forget BMI. The new way to check if you're obese is to half your height and that should be your maximum waste measurement.


Call me old skool again but ......

This should be enough. A mirror. No apps, no tape measures required.

----------


## HuangLao

> Call me old skool again but ......
> 
> This should be enough. A mirror. No apps, no tape measures required.


5555....
Seems to be in high admiration of himself. 


If one doesn't recognize the grotesque rolly-polly in themselves by then, it's much too late.

How the fuck do people consciously get like that? 

 :Smile:

----------


## crackerjack101

Admit you have already.
We all know what a fraud you are and I have no doubt that you're a fat sweaty oik.
An abhorrent individual of no value and no worth.
A waste of space.
Useless.
Inane.
pointless
Sad.

FOJ

----------


## Pragmatic

> just look down, if you can't see ur nutz ur a fatty
> 
> 1750 mtrs


 Not necessarily.



1750 mtrs? Should that be mm or 1.75 mtrs?

----------


## FailSafe

> Only used old air rowers. Water provides more resistance.


Actually, the resistance is about the same between both types of machines- 'resistance' is determined by the speed of the person rowing, and both allow changes in feel (water rowers by tank level, air rowers by damper setting)- one isn't any 'harder' than the other (or better).  There are many comparison articles that explain the differences between them.

I've got over 25mil meters on a Concept2 machine (Olympic rowers tend to use it in the off-season, and there's a huge online community), and they're becoming more popular in LOS- I've been seeing them more in gyms lately.  I imported mine directly through C2 in the States- this was about eight years ago, but shipping and taxes weren't crazy expensive- I paid something like 35K (maybe closer to 40K) all-in for a Model-D.  There's probably a Thailand distributor these days (though I wouldn't be surprised if it's still a better deal to import one yourself.

One thing C2 does is allow competition between rowers around the world via RowPro software- there are regular seasonal competitions (I finished 8th out of more than 5K rowers for total meters in a challenge several years ago- I averaged over 40K meters per day for 31 straight days- I'll never do that again, but I had to try it once :Wink: ) - I've raced or trained with people from all over the world online in real-time- it's a real motivator.

Each boat represents a live rower- it's a pretty cool way to train (not my pic- I pulled it off the net- 3:11 is old lady pace):

----------


## AntRobertson

> Call me old skool again but ......
> 
> This should be enough. A mirror. No apps, no tape measures required


Yep, 'tis.

But depends what your goal is also. Comes a point where measurements are the only reliable way to track composition etc.

----------


## Switch

> Actually, the resistance is about the same between both types of machines- 'resistance' is determined by the speed of the person rowing, and both allow changes in feel (water rowers by tank level, air rowers by damper setting)- one isn't any 'harder' than the other (or better).  There are many comparison articles that explain the differences between them.
> 
> I've got over 25mil meters on a Concept2 machine (Olympic rowers tend to use it in the off-season, and there's a huge online community), and they're becoming more popular in LOS- I've been seeing them more in gyms lately.  I imported mine directly through C2 in the States- this was about eight years ago, but shipping and taxes weren't crazy expensive- I paid something like 35K (maybe closer to 40K) all-in for a Model-D.  There's probably a Thailand distributor these days (though I wouldn't be surprised if it's still a better deal to import one yourself.
> 
> One thing C2 does is allow competition between rowers around the world via RowPro software- there are regular seasonal competitions (I finished 8th out of more than 5K rowers for total meters in a challenge several years ago- I averaged over 40K meters per day for 31 straight days- I'll never do that again, but I had to try it once) - I've raced or trained with people from all over the world online in real-time- it's a real motivator.
> 
> Each boat represents a live rower- it's a pretty cool way to train (not my pic- I pulled it off the net- 3:11 is old lady pace):


Interesting post FS. If I were living in a condo or apartment and getting maximum use out of it, I’d probably go for the quieter of the two.
Do you think the rower represents the best all round exercise value, giving all round muscular and aerobic improvements?
In my experience the fittest I have ever been was following 3 months of langlauf ski training or 3 months of serious boxing training. Any comparison?

----------


## FailSafe

> Interesting post FS. If I were living in a condo or apartment and getting maximum use out of it, I’d probably go for the quieter of the two.
> Do you think the rower represents the best all round exercise value, giving all round muscular and aerobic improvements?
> In my experience the fittest I have ever been was following 3 months of langlauf ski training or 3 months of serious boxing training. Any comparison?


I don't know about skiing, but I trained in Muay Thai for years and nothing beats sparring for a punishing aerobic workout.  It will tone you as well, but it won't build much muscle- boxing would be the same.

I row for an aerobic workout, and also lift at the gym (my schedule allows me to get there most mornings after I drop my kid off at school)- if you wanted to row strictly for muscle gain, it won't do a lot as it doesn't give the same kind of stress as lifting weights- it also works mainly the 'pulling' muscles of the upper body (biceps and back) and doesn't do much for the 'pushing' muscles (chest, shoulders, triceps)- it's very good for legs, of course.  For an aerobic exercise, though, it's hard to beat rowing- it's very low-impact, and I was starting to have knee issues from running, and rowing solved that problem.   Bicycling it great, but it doesn't really do much at all for upper-body.  A good, commercial-quality rower that will last for many years is also pretty cheap compared to a good bicycle.

For me, the combination of rowing at home and lifting at the gym has worked out pretty well.

----------


## AntRobertson

> One thing C2 does is allow competition between rowers around the world via RowPro software- there are regular seasonal competitions (I finished 8th out of more than 5K rowers for total meters in a challenge several years ago- I averaged over 40K meters per day for 31 straight days- I'll never do that again, but I had to try it once) - I've raced or trained with people from all over the world online in real-time- it's a real motivator.
> 
> Each boat represents a live rower- it's a pretty cool way to train (not my pic- I pulled it off the net- 3:11 is old lady pace):


So it's online and real-time?

Not my cup of tea but I've got to admit that's pretty cool.

----------


## FailSafe

Yes- you can schedule a row hours or days in advance, and people from anywhere can register to take part (it can be a race or just a training session where everyone tries to maintain a certain pace), and it starts at the same time for all rowers (obviously you tend to see people from countries that are somewhat close to your own time-zone).  There are also 'leaderboards' (by time and distance) where you can download the prerecorded row of someone ahead of you  (provided they uploaded with the RowPro software- maybe a third of rowers use it, but there are thousands of rowers grouped by gender, age, and weight-class) and run against them (though not live, but at their exact pace) in an attempt to pass them.

It's a good way to stay motivated.

----------


## Switch

> I don't know about skiing, but I trained in Muay Thai for years and nothing beats sparring for a punishing aerobic workout.  It will tone you as well, but it won't build much muscle- boxing would be the same.
> 
> I row for an aerobic workout, and also lift at the gym (my schedule allows me to get there most mornings after I drop my kid off at school)- if you wanted to row strictly for muscle gain, it won't do a lot as it doesn't give the same kind of stress as lifting weights- it also works mainly the 'pulling' muscles of the upper body (biceps and back) and doesn't do much for the 'pushing' muscles (chest, shoulders, triceps)- it's very good for legs, of course.  For an aerobic exercise, though, it's hard to beat rowing- it's very low-impact, and I was starting to have knee issues from running, and rowing solved that problem.   Bicycling it great, but it doesn't really do much at all for upper-body.  A good, commercial-quality rower that will last for many years is also pretty cheap compared to a good bicycle.
> 
> For me, the combination of rowing at home and lifting at the gym has worked out pretty well.


Good tips thank you.
Langlauf skiing for biathlon training is a really great all round workout, adding a measure of aerobic control.

like you, I have had joint issues with any high impact exercise, so I try to vary my program with some gym, swimming and cycling.
I’d like to add rowing for endurance and aerobic work outs. Steve Redgrave epiomised lean muscular endurance during his gold medal training.  :Smile:

----------


## FailSafe

While I've never actually tried it, C2 also makes a 'Ski-Erg' (the friend who got me into rowing loves his, and varies it with his rower)- it's supposed to mimic cross-country skiing, and would certainly tone muscle groups like shoulders and triceps that the rower doesn't stress.

----------


## AntRobertson

Loving this app:



Just having some metrics and measurements to go off makes it better.

----------


## Neverna

^ Your stalker(s) will be in rapture, Ant.

----------


## AntRobertson

The thought had already occurred to me that I’m wasting my time blacking-out the names on the map.

Smeg’s probably already stalked and shared that info with taxexile, stroller & Co.

 :Very Happy:

----------


## Switch

> While I've never actually tried it, C2 also makes a 'Ski-Erg' (the friend who got me into rowing loves his, and varies it with his rower)- it's supposed to mimic cross-country skiing, and would certainly tone muscle groups like shoulders and triceps that the rower doesn't stress.


Difficult to tell from that pic how it might work?

----------


## Neverna

There's a video of it here: SkiErg - Ski Machine - Cross Training | Concept2


and here ..

----------


## Luigi

A wee 4km stroll, 38 mins.

1 question, after 2 or so weeks of averaging a 6km stroll five times a week, I still have muscle pain (I presume) from my shin bone area. The outer side of the shin bone to be precise. Starts after a few hundred meters of face paced walking and stays for the duration. Thought that kinda thing would be gone by now, but obviously not. A bit of a pain (badum tsch  :Smile:  ) as I could be doing it quite a bit faster fitness wise, but just this one thing is holding me back. Is it normal or do I have some sort of brittle shin disease and will be wheel-chair bound by the time I'm 40?  :Smile:

----------


## Neverna

> A wee 4km stroll, 38 mins.
> 
> 1 question, after 2 or so weeks of averaging a 6km stroll five times a week, I still have muscle pain (I presume) from my shin bone area. The outer side of the shin bone to be precise. Starts after a few hundred meters of face paced walking and stays for the duration. Thought that kinda thing would be gone by now, but obviously not. A bit of a pain (badum tsch  ) as I could be doing it quite a bit faster fitness wise, but just this one thing is holding me back. Is it normal or do I have some sort of brittle shin disease and will be wheel-chair bound by the time I'm 40?


In my opinion, given that you are walking, it is probably the muscle is aching (possibly injured) or possibly the sheath covering the muscle is torn. I had it many years ago. I had to stop running for a while until it cleared up. Simply cutting down was not enough for it to recover. 

It could be that you have done too much too soon (your body hasn't had time to adapt to your increased exercising), or that your footwear is not suitable for you and your activity.

----------


## uncle junior

Shin splints maybe. Stretch after after exercising, take a rest day or two and start back. Should pass soon.

----------


## Luigi

Cheers chaps.

Duly noted with thanks.

----------


## Dillinger

^ Are you exercising in flip flops?

----------


## Luigi

socks

----------


## uncle junior

^got a few of those no doubt

----------


## Luigi

> A wee 4km stroll, 38 mins.
> 
> 1 question, after 2 or so weeks of averaging a 6km stroll five times a week, I still have muscle pain (I presume) from my shin bone area. The outer side of the shin bone to be precise. Starts after a few hundred meters of face paced walking and stays for the duration. Thought that kinda thing would be gone by now, but obviously not. A bit of a pain (badum tsch  ) as I could be doing it quite a bit faster fitness wise, but just this one thing is holding me back. Is it normal or do I have some sort of brittle shin disease and will be wheel-chair bound by the time I'm 40?


All sorted.


Seems to have just been not giving them any recovery time (doing 5 days in a row off the bat)

All good after a 2 day break.

Also have started stopping every 2km to do some sets in the exercise machine area. This gives 'em a break for a few mins and starts out fresh every 2km.


1 question.

Some old bloke was doing his laps holding onto two small weights, mini dumbbell things.

What will this add to one's regime? cardio? muscular? etc. Cheers.

----------


## Dillinger

> Some old bloke was doing his laps holding onto two small weights, mini dumbbell things.
> 
> What will this add to one's regime? cardio? muscular?


Sore wrists and aching calves

----------


## AntRobertson

> What will this add to one's regime? cardio? muscular? etc. Cheers.


Fuck all.  :Very Happy: 

The theory is it gives a 'toning effect' but the reality is more like an increased risk of RSI.

----------


## Dillinger

Today is Glutes day

----------


## AntRobertson

> Today is Glutes day


Yeah.









I'm just off to workout my wrist.  :Very Happy:

----------


## Neverna

That's a fine pair of glutes.

----------


## Dillinger



----------


## Dillinger

Put your back into it Tom

----------


## uncle junior

> Some old bloke was doing his laps holding onto two small weights, mini dumbbell things.
> 
> What will this add to one's regime? cardio? muscular? etc. Cheers.


Carrying the weights demands more blood to the arms and hands, makes the heart work harder. Swinging the arms will help even more. As for muscle it won't do much but will keep ur arms toned. If you really want a good cardio workout  ride your bike to the pool for a  swim.

----------


## aging one

Good workout today. Just a very brisk walk at the park. Got 7 kilos done in only 51 minutes so quite happy.  Now going to cook a really big breakfast as I am starving.

----------


## fishlocker

My workout today: went to the Mexican market, the hardware store, a restaurant supply store and lastly just refused a shot of Jack Daniels and a beer at the nieces place down town.

The last part is easy now that I've abstained for over three weeks. 

Happy mothers day all you mothers out there.

The fish.

----------


## Cujo

This looks as good a thread as any rather than start a new one.
As many of you are aware 2 months ago I Found out my blood pressure was through the roof.
This was the prompting I needed to get my arse in gear.
First I cut out salt and fat from my diet, and sugar.
I cut down, if not out, the carbs. No spaghetti, noodles, pasta, bread, rice, noodles, spuds. BEER.
Cut out sugar including fruits.
And started exercising. At the gym first. Power walking 5 k a day building up speed until I was half running half walking. Also doing some weights .
I've since gone over to the bike and doing 25 k a day in an hour and a bit for the last 3 weeks doing the odd longer one when I can.
I realise that's not much compared to some but it's working for me.
I've lost 10 kg or about 20 lb. (But still have a way to go) Some of the changes I notice are suddenly I can just go and buy a shirt.
My sense of balance is noticeably improved along with agility. In fact I feel fucking great. Strong and fit. I'm lighter and stronger so the biking is getting easier. In fact everything is 
I don't miss anything but the beer. And a pizza would be nice. 
But actually what prompted this post was I just ate half a banana and it was the most delicious thing I could imagine.
I expect something to do with not eating sweet things or fruits for 2 months.

----------


## Neverna

Well done, Cujo. Keep it up.

----------


## Luigi

Good stuff Cujo.   :tumbs:

----------


## Cujo

Thanks. Hope it didn't come across as boasting. Just wanted to share.
I'd like to point out that when I say I went over to the bike I mean the actual bike.
There's an awesome coastal bike path here. I'll see if I can get some pics.

----------


## AntRobertson

Good stuff! 

 :tumbs: 

Cutting out carbs seems unnecessary but whatever works for you.

----------


## AntRobertson

Ps. try banana with peanut butter on it, fucking delish!  :Very Happy:

----------


## hick

Cujo, great job 

I believe you're nearing the point where you can enjoy a few slices of pizza and a beer w/o detrimental effects.

Helps if you time it out and have the mini glutton feast an hour or so before a light or medium exercise   :Wink:

----------


## Cujo

> Ps. try banana with peanut butter on it, fucking delish!


Thanks for the tip. That is good stuff.

----------


## AntRobertson

I know right. One of my favorite snacks that one.

Nom-nom-nom!

----------


## Cujo

> I know right. One of my favorite snacks that one.
> 
> Nom-nom-nom!


And very energous.

----------


## Dillinger

^ do you mean erogenous? You sick puppy

----------


## Simon43

Fcuk! - If I entered this 10,000 metre race, I'd win it.....Bagan Temple Marathon @ UltimateLIVE

I was going to enter the Bagan (Myanmar) 10,000 metre race this year, but I'm coming back to Thailand before the race date  :Sad: 

I usually do an 'easy' 10 Km jog around the hotel gardens before brekkies at the weekend, and do a fast 20 Km bike ride before school on weekdays.

Today (Saturday), I decided to up my jog pace.  Ran 10 Km in under 50 minutes  :Smile:   I didn't push it too much, not out of breath, recovered in a few minutes.

I'm pleased with that - almost 60 years old and getting faster every month...

Update:

Also kudos to Cujo for your exercise routine/diet.

When I started dieting/getting fit, I also cut out all sugars.  But after some time and research, I realised that although processed foods with added sugar are addictive, our body does need some sugar.  So I drink pure fruit juice (in moderation), which has fructose (natural fruit sugar in it).  

I cut out almost all processed foods.  My daily food consists of:

Muesli
Coffee/water/green tea/ginger tea
fresh salads
Nuts
Oily fish
Fruit (mostly apples, grapes, pomelo)
Keffir milk
A little brown bread
seeds (melon, pumpkin etc)
Whey protein ('cos I do a little weight training)
Multivits, calcium, omega 3

There is no meat in my diet right now because the availability of decent meat in Naypyitaw is non-existant unless I pay $$$ at a 5-star hotel. I'll go onto quality lean chicken etc when I return to Thailand.

My weight has dropped from 74 Kg to about 61 Kg (I have a compact body type - No, I'm not a dwarf...).

----------

