#  >  > Travellers Tales in Thailand and Asia >  >  > China, Korea, Japan, Hong Kong and Macau Travel Forum >  >  Kingwilly visits Shangri La, no, not the hotel, but Tibet

## kingwilly

A couple of years ago, (so my memories are sketchy, please be kind) I traveled around Tibet during summer for about 2 weeks. Although there is an overland train, nasty foreigners are not allowed to use it, foreigners must apply for a permit to visit, any chinese travel agency can do this.... = $$. And we have to fly directly into the capital Lhasa. 

I flew from Chengdu. Since Lhasa is about 4,500 metres, altitude sickness is a problem for many visitors, little KW was with me, and he did get sick almost immediately.  :Sad:  - so I would not recommend this for families. 

The airport is about 90kms away so there is a mad scramble for buses or rip off taxis. 

Plenty of accomodation in Lhasa, here's a couple of pics of the central (old) town. The new parts of town are spawling chinese modern day shops and buildings. 

Did I mention it was cold?

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## kingwilly

mainstreet in old town.



market place



just people...

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## kingwilly

The Potala Palace is located in Lhasa, Tibet Autonomous Region of the People's Republic of China. It was named after Mount Potala, the abode of Chenresig or Avalokitesvara. The Potala Palace was the chief residence of the Dalai Lama until the 14th Dalai Lama fled to Dharamsala, India after an invasion and failed uprising in 1959.

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## kingwilly

A couple of days was more than enough of Lhasa, and then we took off for a road trip. Again, nasty foreigners have to use a registered travel agency. I think 4wheel drive car, guide, driver, petrol and accomodation was something like $100 per day...

Unfortunately, I cannot remember the names of which towns, areas and glaciers we visited, I just have the pictures, google earth is not much help either, since it is has been (deliberately, I assume) blurred.

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## kingwilly

Its called the rooftop of the world for a reason, it was also greener than I expected. (at least this valley was)

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## kingwilly

i think the above may have been the      *Tsurphu valley,* which is west of Lhasa*.
*

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## kingwilly

the landscape then changes colour and becomes much more moonscape-like as i imagined it would be ... 

I never much liked the movie, but years previously I'd read Seven Years in Tibet and so had always dreamed about this place.

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## kingwilly

There were various walled towns and monasteries throughout the area.

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## kingwilly

We climbed inside this temple (?) - each level one could look out...







travelling with children allows you to do anything you want, just about, the locals were very interested in a little white boy...



passed a local on the road...



some town...

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## kingwilly



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## kingwilly

some locals camp, a yak and a glacier, I recall we had to pay him something, maybe $5 to stop and take photos at 'his' glacier.

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## Nawty

How do you deal with Alt sickness.....I wanna take my kids there one day, also want to go to that other little kingdom, the one where national dress is mandatory....whats it called....also want to go on that really high train ride and apparently you get alt sickness on it, but it is pressurised I think, or oxygen available, something like that.

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## kingwilly

Alt sickness.
prevent by going up slowly (bit hard when the plane lands there)

rest. (we had to wait an hour for another plane to land before the bus or taxi's would leave the airport)

go to a lower altitude. (bit hard landing in Lhasa, that's as low as it goes)

oxygen bottle. (didnt seem to make much difference)

he was sick for the first day or so, initially i was quite scared. almost called off the trip, but between resting for a day or two and the oxygen bottles, he seemed to come good.

well worth the visit. make sure the little ones, dont run around (seriously) to start with.

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## kingwilly

> also want to go to that other little kingdom,


I think you mean Bhutan.

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## Whiteshiva

Nice pictures from from Shigatze and Gyantze.  I did the overland trip from Lhasa to Kathmandu in '86 - the glacier was bigger at that time, but at least the temples appear unchanged.

Did you make it to Sakya as well?

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## kingwilly

> Nice pictures from from Shigatze and Gyantze. I did the overland trip from Lhasa to Kathmandu in '86 - the glacier was bigger at that time, but at least the temples appear unchanged.  Did you make it to Sakya as well?


cool, 

I couldnt remember the names of those places. 

thanks. I'll edit those pics later...

Cannot remember Sakya or not.... what's there?

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## DaffyDuck

Ditto happened to me when I visited Quito (altitude: 2,850 meter), and I made the mistake of insisting to carry my Mom's luggage into the hotel lobby, running back and forth between the bus and the hotel - I think all I recall is waking up somewhere on the floor, with the local medic telling me to take it easy for a day or so - which is all it took.

I was 13 or 14, as I recall, so I'm cutting myself some slack :-)

If you don't know the name of your destination, maybe you shouldn't travel -- that said, Bhutan is another of the destinations on my list of places to visit.

I would like to see it, along with Tibet, but my main concern is in not wanting to further support an extortionist regime with my tourism $$$ -- I don't agree with China's policies, and the way they restrict 'nasty foreigners' (love that :-), so I don't want to give them a dime of my money. Dilemma.

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## kingwilly

> I would like to see it, along with Tibet, but my main concern is in not wanting to further support an extortionist regime with my tourism $$$ -- I don't agree with China's policies, and the way they restrict 'nasty foreigners' (love that :-), so I don't want to give them a dime of my money. Dilemma.


true.

but the places we stayed at, and the guides and drivers used were local people.

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## Loy Toy

Nice pictures KW and thanks for sharing!

One of the places that has never really interested me and I do need my oxygen.

I got sick up in the Andes Mountains and that was enough for me.

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## Mr R Sole

Wow KW, you lucky man...I would really like to Visit Tibet...but not until it is free of Chinese occupationist forces..and their oppression...

I also can't go..I applied once for a visa...I was denied as The chinese embassy has pic's of me protesting Jiang Zemin in 1999 at Greenwich, London on behalf of the Tibetan people...we kept the bastard on the ferry at Greenwich pier..(all 6 of us) with a huge Tibetan flag and lots of noise especially from me....

Great fun....

So I went to Mcleod ganj in India and met His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama instead....the best experience of my life..along with the birth of my daughter..
Padme Dorje... 
Tibetan for 'Lotus, Thunderbolt of enlightenment.. (mouthful the English translation ain't it) 

My Avatar is from all the prayer wheels that arein your pic's...

Om Mani Padme Hum ...a Prayer for Avalokiteshvara..The Dalai Lama

Thanks so much for the lovely pic's

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## Whiteshiva

> Originally Posted by Whiteshiva
> 
> Nice pictures from from Shigatze and Gyantze. I did the overland trip from Lhasa to Kathmandu in '86 - the glacier was bigger at that time, but at least the temples appear unchanged. Did you make it to Sakya as well?
> 
> 
> cool, 
> 
> I couldnt remember the names of those places. 
> 
> ...


Another old temple :Smile:  - and a bit different in terms of architecture and layout - also some picturesque ruins on the outskirts of the village.  Found some interesting artifacts (clay figures, etc.) in the dirt out there.  About half an hours drive from the main road between Shigatze and the border.

Was planning of doing a thread about it one day :mid: , but need to digitalize my slides first....

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## kingwilly

> I would really like to Visit Tibet...but not until it is free of Chinese occupationist forces..and their oppression...


dont hold your breath....




> My Avatar is from all the prayer wheels that arein your pic's...


I noticed.

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## kingwilly

> but need to digitalize my slides first.... Whiteshiva is offline Add to Whiteshiva's Reputation Report Post


yeah, these were taken on an old analogue SLR also.

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## The Gentleman Scamp

Nice pics KW, hey you should spend seven years in Tibet like Brad Pitt did, live like the monks and be at one with yourself and emancipate yourself from stuff in the modern world like cars and the internet and television advertising and the internet.

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## Lily

Hey Willy, did you ever read the book 'Running a Hotel on the Roof of the World'?

About an English hotel management type who thought he was taking a step up by accepting a job in a hotel in Lhasa?

A really good and quite funny read.

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## Michael

Thanks for that. I lost all my photos to my now ex-girlfriend. we spent 2 months in 1994. it doesn't look any different. more cars.

We took the bus, originally from Chengdu. After a week of gradual ascent we didn't notice the altitude at, what 4,000 m ?

The locals were very friendly, but afraid to talk about politics. back then we were free to roam, just catching a local bus and staying wherever. Samye was my favourite place. An ancient monastery surrounded by strip farming. No electricity and no running water. The toilet was on the roof of the only hotel. No walls or anything, just a view of the Himalaya. No roads, a boat across the river.

I remember seeing many hoopoes, a bird i had only seen in books.  In Llahsa, men were selling animal pelts: Snow leopards and red pandas.  Han Chinese tourists were buying them. I hated that.  

It started getting cold at night in September, so we caught the monthly bus to the border with Nepal. the most picturesque two day bus journey ever.  

In Northern India months later, after Q-ing for an hour to meet the Dalai Llama, my girlfriend showed him our diary with pictures of Tibet like yours, KW, and he autographed it, under a picture of the Potthala Palace. 

Sorry for rambling on, nostalgia and all that. Feel sad now, don't know why.

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## Marmite the Dog

Nice pics KW. That's another place I can cross off the list as it looks very dull.

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## kingwilly

Acutally scumpy, it was Heinrich Harrer, not brad pit.

adn do you really think that _I_ could possible live without modern comforts.


lily, I havent, but i'll look it up, thanks for the tip.


michael, thanks for sharing, and I would reiterate that point about the bus or train as a better means of entering Tibet, rather than plane.

MtD, phillistine.

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## slackula

Nice pics, it is somewhere that I would really like to visit one day.

I had a friend who was the F&B Director of the Holiday Inn in Lhasa (think the name has changed now), he put a burger on the coffee shop menu called the Big Yak.  :Smile:

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## Nawty

Snice tread KW....bout time you pulled ya finger out and did something worthy.

Tried to send you a greeny even, but could not.

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## kingwilly

> Snice tread KW....bout time you pulled ya finger out and did something worthy.


whaddya mean about time? 

have you _looked_ in the Indo travel section lately?

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## Nawty

I don't wanna travel to Indo....when I do I might look there.

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## kingwilly

> I don't wanna travel to Indo....when I do I might look there.


armchair traveler mate. you dont need ever to visit.

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## DaffyDuck

How's the connectivity in Lhasa? I assume they have mobile phones, but is there any GPRS or EDGE connectivity on the phones?

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## Nawty

Its like masturbation....I prefer the real thing.

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## kingwilly

> How's the connectivity in Lhasa?


I dont recall. This trip was in about 2004 or 2005.

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## Nawty

So should be better by now then.

Daffney needs to keep in touch with all his sex sites so as to keep up with current pricing and not risk being ripped off....again.

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## SiLeakHunt

Looks ace, would love a trip up there myself.

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## astasinim

Spectacular scenery in the pics KW. Would definitely like to take a look there one day.

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## Phuketrichard

WOW, thanks for the pics. I was last up in Tibet in 1986. We used to run mtn bike trips from Lhasa to Kathmandu. From your pics it does not seem the roads have imporved at all but actually seem worse. I had found memories of the place as in '84 we ran gold from HK to KTM via Lhasa and one trip had to spent a month in Lhasa as one of the pass's was closed south.

Do they still do the sky burial's? I assume the chinese stopped them. Can u still go inside the Jokang? One thing i recall that really pissed me off is ur supposed to circle the Jokang clockwise and the chinese used to link there arms and circle counter clockwise to piss off the Tibeatians. Is there still a market up there? Still have good Moslem soups?

You can see some old pics here, Zenfolio | Richard Reitman Photography | Tibet

Some day i hope to make it back

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## Phuketrichard

duplicate

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## kingwilly

> We used to run mtn bike trips from Lhasa to Kathmandu. From your pics it does not seem the roads have imporved at all but actually seem worse.


a friend of mine joined one of those tours, highly recommended. i used to ride a lot, and wanted to do it also. 

(but bit hard with my 3 year old son in tour at teh time)

I think they still do the sky burials, but its more of a tourist spectacal now.

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## Mr R Sole

> Feel sad now, don't know why.


Probably from the compassion you have gained after seeing all you have...especially in Tibet I don't doubt....





> men were selling animal pelts: Snow leopards and red pandas. Han Chinese tourists were buying them. I hated that.


I have heard that this practice has got much worse since the Chinese occupation. Tibetans used to sell these pelts before..I don't blame the Chinese for all problems in Tibet..However, the Chinese thirst for animal parts is a major player in this problem. Causing such a large escalation of the problem that these beautiful animals are becoming almost extinct..
It is a trade in which the Tibetans have found a niche as most jobs are given to the Chinese majority..(Chinese around 7-8million in Tibet..as opposed to 4-5million Tibetans from what I hear maximum numbers...and the Chinese are moving in thick and fast....Lhasa looks like a Chinese city..)

Please check out the Channel four UK dispatches program about life in Tibet...quite an eye opener. 

or you can visit... 

www.tibet.com or
http://www.tibet.com/Status/index.html

either way again thanks for the photo's from all.

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## Mr R Sole

> I think they still do the sky burials, but its more of a tourist spectacal now.


Some remote places still do them..however the Chinese forces had banned them for many years..but the PRC aren't stupid and can see that...being seen to be preserving Tibets rich culture can be used as an advantage...politically.

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## Phuketrichard

ON my 1st trip on a bike When we crossed one 17,000 'passes we came upon a chinese guy on a chinese one speed thaty weighed at elast 100 lbs (compared to our 25 lbs bikes with 18 speeds)  He had this giant cassette deck in a wooden box and had tapes in all the languages saying who he was and what he was doing.  He had been on the road 4 years!! and still going strong.  I couldn't push his bike much less pedal it!!

The month i spent in Lhasa i went to the sky burials a few times but out of respect never took a pictiure unlike many of the chinese who always were snapping away

Your son could have ridden in the support truck  :-)

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## pomeloseed

very good!  Wonderful photos.  I've been wanting to get my buns to Tibet for decades.  I feel a kinship with the place, and have written a version of the Milarepa story - is scheduled to get published in the States, along with an audio book version.
Question (this might sound daft). It appears there's a bus going to Lhasa from Kathmandu.  Do you think it's possible (after getting a proper visa), to take the bus and simply get off at the first town past the border in to Tibet? (I don't know the name of the town).  Methinks I might get in trouble, even if I were willing to hire a car from there - tho even that may be daydreaming.  The reason: I want to explore the Tsampo valley which goes eastward from there (northern slopes of the Himalayas) which were the stomping grounds of Milarepa.  Am most keen to try and find Marpa's compound.  Even if it's not standing, there must be something still in evidence at that site.  I've heard from a Russian acquaintance that the Tibetan tour guides will show you a place they call Marpa's compound, but it's not real.  He says the real place is close to the border with Nepal, so it's made off-limits by the ever paranoid Chinese.  ....just wondering.

Also, what would you recommend as the best times of year to make the trek?   I assume anytimes beterrn May and September, but that's just off the top of my pointy head.

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## Phuketrichard

Late may thru late sept unloess u like being VERY cold.

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## kingwilly

> Question (this might sound daft). It appears there's a bus going to Lhasa from Kathmandu. Do you think it's possible (after getting a proper visa), to take the bus and simply get off at the first town past the border in to Tibet? (I don't know the name of the town). Methinks I might get in trouble, even if I were willing to hire a car from there - tho even that may be daydreaming.


Possible, but generally the buses and tourist agencies in Nepal are wary of upsetting China, so you'll find it difficult or impossible to do. 

Not to mention that if you did succeed the Chinese might jail you, (as has recently happened to those 3 americans in Iran)

not worth it imo

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## bustak

wow, KW, this must of been a real adventure! Tibet is on my list of places to go.

Great thread, thanks for sharing.

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## kingwilly

> wow, KW, this must of been a real adventure! Tibet is on my list of places to go.
> 
> Great thread, thanks for sharing.


Yeah bustak, it was. Definitely worth the effort one of those places that was not disappointing, I just wish I had more time there.

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## Rural Surin

Appreciated for your usual lovely travel thread, Willy. Stunning and creative photography. Cheers! :Smile:

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## roamer

Thank-You kingwilly,

enjoyed the photos and report,
it`s a country I`ve wanted to visit,
one day maybe.

As well as "7 Years in Tibet"  Heinrich Harrer
also wrote "Return to Tibet", he returned there in 1982 I think.
Have both books, superb reads.

The other book mentioned "Running a hotel on the roof of
the world" is by Alec Le Sueur, he spent 5 years running
the Lhasa hotel(under the Holiday Inn banner at the time).
Good and entertaining read, if you are interested get
the 2nd edition, ISBN is 1 84024 106 3.

Reckon I must have  20 or so books about Tibet,
one a monster 800 pages plus, not read yet.

Thanks again.

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## kingwilly

I didn't realise he'd written another book, I'll look them up, thanks for the tip.

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## Phuketrichard

i have so many books on tibet they almost fill up two shelves.  Stared collecting them back in 75 on my frist trip thru India and Nepal.  There was one great bookstore in Darjeeeling back then that had loads of out of print books. Also Pilgrims bookstore in Thamel has tons of them.

Many u cant even find on Amazon.

I would love to go back as have nt been since the late 80's and am sure it has changed.  Recall the first tme we accidently went in the back door of the Portola and wandered around lost for hours thur rooms that had been totally destroyed and u could still see the black fire burns on the walls.

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## ossierob

Thanks KW....they are both on my list....Nepal and Bhutan....Have travelled a bit of the world I guess but there is a lot more to come and these two are up there. I to would like to travel  on that pressurised train from China up to Nepal..Nawty I believe it is pressurised much like a plane....just cant remember where it originates from.....my memory is just about shot....I could probaly travel to the same place every 2 weeks, call it a different name, and I would believe i was still travellin the world'....sigh!

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## billy the kid

good pics. kw .  did want to go at one time but not anymore . 
if you slept in a remote cave ,,, the chinks would know about it.
if there was any magic ,, they killed it stone dead .
some nice scenery tho of course.

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