The Gun Issue thread

[slackula]

I'm going back to Argentina on the the 2nd. I fancy a little winter. Along with some fancy goat cheese. not mention the fine vino.

Have a great and safe trip, I'll look forward to catching up with you upon your return.

[RickThai]

Recall how only trained law enforcement professional can be trusted with guns?

Police Chief Accidentally Shoots Himself In Hand.

If even a trained law enforcement professional can manage to accidentally shoot himself then surely that is an argument for stricter gun controls or training requirements, not looser ones?

In the USA, car wrecks kill more people than total gun deaths (deliberate or accidental).
An accidental pool drownings also outnumber accidental gun deaths by a wide margin.

Let's focus on driving and swimming pools and when the numbers get down to the level of accidental gun deaths, then focus on gun.

Oops, those are not currently "progressive" issues, so we pretend those deaths aren't important.

RickThai

[barbaro]

I'm going back to Argentina on the the 2nd. I fancy a little winter. Along with some fancy goat cheese.
not mention the fine vino.

I'll be next door in Peru for a few months and the to Bolivia. Argentina sounds nice.

[Mr Earl]

oops double post

[Mr Earl]

I'm going back to Argentina on the the 2nd. I fancy a little winter. Along with some fancy goat cheese.
not mention the fine vino.

I'll be next door in Peru for a few months and the to Bolivia. Argentina sounds nice.

Cool I spent a.couple months last year banging around Tarapoto. Yurimaguas, Iquitos, Pucalpa, ridding the river boats and on a motortbike xcrossing the Andes, and hanging in Arequipa.

This trip I'll be ridding over to Salto, Uruguay and explore a little bit.

[Boon Mee]

Recall how only trained law enforcement professional can be trusted with guns?

Police Chief Accidentally Shoots Himself In Hand.

If even a trained law enforcement professional can manage to accidentally shoot himself then surely that is an argument for stricter gun controls or training requirements, not looser ones?

In the USA, car wrecks kill more people than total gun deaths (deliberate or accidental).
An accidental pool drownings also outnumber accidental gun deaths by a wide margin.

Let's focus on driving and swimming pools and when the numbers get down to the level of accidental gun deaths, then focus on gun.

Oops, those are not currently "progressive" issues, so we pretend those deaths aren't important.

RickThai

It's not 'Progressive' either to mention G_D or Religion but I ain't Progressive!

[slackula]

In the USA, car wrecks kill more people than total gun deaths (deliberate or accidental). An accidental pool drownings also outnumber accidental gun deaths by a wide margin.

I see this argument raised frequently but I don't get it. Cars and swimming pools aren't designed to fire deadly projectiles, guns are so why compare them?

Oops, those are not currently "progressive" issues, so we pretend those deaths aren't important.

This simplistic reduction of the argument comes up a lot too. Plenty of progressives and liberals are ardent gun owners, on this very forum there are some.

I don't own a gun and would never want to, but I could not care less about Americans owning them. The thing that is puzzling and interesting is that the responsible gun owners seem to have been coerced into opposing any restrictions on loonies and psychos owning guns via some dubious 'slippery slope' type arguments.

When a wacko goes out on a rampage it just makes life harder for all the normal people who like shooting or hunting and stuff so logically they should be in favour of a little more regulation and checking of who is buying what.

It's not 'Progressive' either to mention G_D or Religion but I ain't Progressive!

Why do you type 'G_D' and then post a graphic that says 'God'? What's with that?

[panama hat]

I see this argument raised frequently but I don't get it. Cars and swimming pools aren't designed to fire deadly projectiles, guns are so why compare them?

One of the most popular 'arguments' by mental midgets.

'Mo peeple dye coz a kancer so til thets fix we shuldn hev speed limits on hahways'

This simplistic reduction of the argument comes up a lot too. Plenty of progressives and liberals are ardent gun owners, on this very forum there are some.

Again, address anything but the issue - obfuscate, obfuscate, obfuscate so that the initial point is lost.

Modus operandi for the lobotomised

[RickThai]

In the USA, car wrecks kill more people than total gun deaths (deliberate or accidental). An accidental pool drownings also outnumber accidental gun deaths by a wide margin.

I see this argument raised frequently but I don't get it. Cars and swimming pools aren't designed to fire deadly projectiles, guns are so why compare them?

Let me help you then. Cars and swimming pools kill more people than guns. Why? Primarily because of irresponsible and/or criminal acts of the individuals involved.

Accidental shootings do occur, but most people killed by guns are either deliberately shot by someone (usually a criminal, but occasionally by a cop, or perhaps by someone in fear for their life).

Once you are dead, you are dead, so common sense would dictate that you go after the issues that cause the most deaths (i.e. speeding/reckless/DUI driving in the case of cars, and irresponsible parents/pool owners), but like I stated, liberals don't seem to get too excited about all the deaths due to cars (probably because they do more than their share of speeding, tailgating, and drunken driving).

Guns serve a very useful purpose (like cars), but they can also be used to commit crimes. The only real solution is to have more "good" people armed than "bad" people. That would stop whackos from opening up on innocent children, etc.

Israel has one of the most effective anti-terrorist policies in the world. Basically, they open up on anyone who starts shooting or tries to blow up innocent people.

Most statistics show that arming the average citizen reduces crime.

But believe what you will.

RickThai

[panama hat]

Most statistics show that arming the average citizen reduces crime.

Cars and swimming pools kill more people than guns.

No, they don't. Swimming pools kill no-one - you are assigning an active role . . . but if you're going to say that 3050-odd accidental drowning deaths are more than 30.000 gun-related deaths then you are either quite bad at numbers or you are simply retarded

liberals don't seem to get too excited about all the deaths due to cars (probably because they do more than their share of speeding, tailgating, and drunken driving).

Ah, it's a 'liberal' thing . . . At this stage I'm going for retarded

The only real solution is to have more "good" people armed than "bad" people.

And you will know that this doesn't hold water . . . and consider this - in a country with 300 million guns in circulation you have anything but a country that is safer thna any comparable industrialised country

That would stop whackos from opening up on innocent children, etc.

And the guilty children? You're saying that it's ok to 'open up' on guilty children? Guilty children?

Israel has one of the most effective anti-terrorist policies in the world. Basically, they open up on anyone who starts shooting or tries to blow up innocent people.

Quite, because the US and Israel are very, very similar - nay - almost identical in structure and circumstance

Most statistics show that arming the average citizen reduces crime.

[slackula]

Once you are dead, you are dead, so common sense would dictate that you go after the issues that cause the most deaths (i.e. speeding/reckless/DUI driving in the case of cars, and irresponsible parents/pool owners), but like I stated, liberals don't seem to get too excited about all the deaths due to cars

Are you claiming there are no laws about speeding, reckless or DUI? That's what it sounds like. The "liberals don't seem to get too excited about all the deaths due to cars" line is a pure red herring, an irrelevant slur if you will. What would you say to those liberals who are vehement supporters of the second amendment?

(probably because they do more than their share of speeding, tailgating, and drunken driving)

I am sure you have links and/or stats to back up this ridiculous claim that you have pulled out of your arse.

The only real solution is to have more "good" people armed than "bad" people.

This seems to be the crux of the issue, if you believe that then why not support the moves proposed to ensure that the "good" people have no problem getting guns and it is harder for the "bad" people to get them?

[MrG]

Once you are dead, you are dead, so common sense would dictate that you go after the issues that cause the most deaths

Whose common sense are we talking about here?

Common sense would also dictate that the final thougt of an innocent guy shot on the street for no reason--just as it was all going dark on him, went something like, "Shit, I wish we could at least stop guns from getting into the hands of crazy people...."

Sounds like common sense to me.

[Boon Mee]

Peace Thru Pork?

[panama hat]

Common sense would also dictate that the final thougt of an innocent guy shot on the street for no reason--just as it was all going dark on him, went something like, "Shit, I wish we could at least stop guns from getting into the hands of crazy people...."

No, surely his last thoughts would be that he is lucky he didn't drown in his neighbour's swimming pool.

Yes, RickThai is definitely retarded . . . even knuckledraggers would be embarrassed by the guy.

[Mr Earl]

This seems to be the crux of the issue, if you believe that then why not support the moves proposed to ensure that the "good" people have no problem getting guns and it is harder for the "bad" people to get them?

Why not look where the main problems areas of gun violence are?
(ie the large urban areas)
Then why not ask what is going there to support the gun violence?
(ie the failed war on drugs)

It's kinda of a simple supply side economic question. (ie take away the demand, and the supply goes away)

As I said before over and over decriminalize the drug trade and the drug gangs, drug cartels and drug violence would all but disappear. Not to mention all the related crime addicts perpetrate to get money to buy drugs and the associated burden on law enforcement and the criminal justice system.

Then society would be forced to address drug addiction much more openly and honestly. The drug underworld would no longer have the counter culture appeal for young people and you would see drug use decrease over time.

As we've seen with tobacco and alcohol use.


Address firearms safety directly and honestly too, by providing incentives for people to undergo basic and advanced firearms safety and tactical training, with the understanding that all freedoms mandate certain responsibilities.

[Boon Mee]

This seems to be the crux of the issue, if you believe that then why not support the moves proposed to ensure that the "good" people have no problem getting guns and it is harder for the "bad" people to get them?

Why not look where the main problems areas of gun violence are?
(ie the large urban areas)
Then why not ask what is going there to support the gun violence?
(ie the failed war on drugs)

Here's a handy dandy little graphic to support what you're trying to get thru the gun goobers heads:

[Boon Mee]

[Boon Mee]

[panama hat]

^ Been in Switzerland many, many times = these pictures are bullshi!.

Why resort to such nonsense - weapons are not allowed to be openly carried and only soldiers have guns at home

[Rainfall]

Wasn't Chris Kyle shot and killed at a shooting range by another veteran suffering from PTSD, Boontard? Didn't they believe that the shooting range would have some therapeutic value for the sick man?

Hope that I can cheer you up after your silly blunder with the news that Heinrich Severloh, 'the beast of Omaha Beach' with 1,000+ confirmed kills of Americans lived to the age of 83 years. Maybe because all guns were collected after WW2, and private possession without a licence; granted infrequently and only with constraints such as that guns must be locked away in a safe at home, is a crime punishable by prison.

[barbaro]

I'm going back to Argentina on the the 2nd. I fancy a little winter. Along with some fancy goat cheese.
not mention the fine vino.

I'll be next door in Peru for a few months and the to Bolivia. Argentina sounds nice.

Cool I spent a.couple months last year banging around Tarapoto. Yurimaguas, Iquitos, Pucalpa, ridding the river boats and on a motortbike xcrossing the Andes, and hanging in Arequipa.

This trip I'll be ridding over to Salto, Uruguay and explore a little bit.

I plan to study at a Spanish academy in Arequipa in a few months. Peru seems quite big and has a lot of variety. I am not there yet, but will be in a few weeks.

Any tips are appreciated.

As for the gun issue, I think RickThai has great points.

[Jesus Jones]

The Hypocrisy of these politicians is laughable!

An aide to Michigan Democratic Rep. John Conyers got off with a warning after illegally bringing a gun into a public building.

Security officers at a federal building in downtown Detroit found a gun in the purse of Betty Petrenz, Conyers’ office manager. Bringing weapons into government buildings is strictly forbidden, but Petrenz received no sentence or formal punishment. Just a ticket, which will be stricken from her record if she demonstrates good behavior.

Conyers is a strong advocate of stronger gun control laws whose votes have earned him an “F” grade from the National Rifle Association.

Read more: Democratic aide brings gun into courthouse, gets ticket | The Daily Caller

[Boon Mee]

If the Left didn't employ Hypocrisy at every turn, they'd be totally out of ideas!

[panama hat]

I'd be much more inclined to give 'statistics' of this kind even the tiniest shred of credence if they were backed up in any way.

Here's one I just made up:

The crimes rate remained unchanged despite one resident of Toledo having bought 74 guns . . . therefore owning a gun does not make the streets safer.

In Topeka an NRA member was run down by a schoolbus as he was polishing his AK47 in the middle of an intersection - proof positive that guns don't protect the owner

[Bangyai]

Saw this.....A bit lengthy so follow the link for full article




Automatic for the people


Sales of the AR-15 semi-automatic assault rifle continue to grow, reinforcing its position as the most popular firearm in America, despite its use in some of the most famous multiple shootings of recent times. Jon Swaine examines the ongoing popularity of this controversial weapon.

Automatic for the people by Jon Swaine - Telegraph