The Gun Issue thread

[Morden]

Cops lose or have guns taken from them, happens not too infrequently- why would anyone think a civilian would not be orders of magnitude more likely to lose his or hers:
(This cop could be one of Springfield's finest) Cop Who Fell Asleep in Patrol Car Loses Loaded Gun | NBC 10 Philadelphia
(Left the dang thing on the bumper, drove away) Officer Loses Gun In Police Parking Lot - Philadelphia News, Weather and Sports from WTXF FOX 29
(Lost it to an 18-year-old, as by rights Zimmerman could easily have lost his to Martin) Beaverton police officer whose gun was taken from him named in court records | OregonLive.com

There are circumstances under which carrying a firearm might make you safer, but not usually. Carrying a pistol didn't make Zimmerman safer, he still got decked and roughed up and was simply lucky not to lose his gun (going strictly by his story*, if you buy it). In the case of most civilians carrying a concealed firearm provides an illusion of security that is likely cause the arms-bearer to get into more trouble than he otherwise would, with often disastrous consequences. I actually considered getting a concealed carry permit after being chased by two enormous Rottweilers while I out on my bicycle (I cycle everywhere, almost never using my car for local travel/shopping, and while I often cycle through very rough black neighborhoods, I've only ever had trouble from white males; lots of cyclist-haters in Flawda). I decided against it because it isn't worth the hassle of worrying about the gun plus the added responsibility- the trouble it can cause is not worth the risk. Plus it would be useless when cycling to-from pub; can't drink at all while carrying. The chain lock or the monkey wrench in the saddle bag will have to do. Not to mention, since my young son has started traveling back to FL with me, all my guns are locked up, in the closet either with trigger locks attached or disassembled.

For some reason open carry is illegal in Florida, while concealed is not; if GZ had been brandishing his weapon when he pursued Martin he would have been breaking the law. A gun is usually worthless unless it is out before the assault begins; wait until you get hit, as Zimmerman claims he did, and you've waited too long. Again, I want to know, how in most cases does concealed carry make you safer? It clearly did not in GZ's case (*again).

Can you use pepper spray in FL? It's a very useful deterrent for dogs and human attackers too.

[robuzo]

Cops lose or have guns taken from them, happens not too infrequently- why would anyone think a civilian would not be orders of magnitude more likely to lose his or hers:
(This cop could be one of Springfield's finest) Cop Who Fell Asleep in Patrol Car Loses Loaded Gun | NBC 10 Philadelphia
(Left the dang thing on the bumper, drove away) Officer Loses Gun In Police Parking Lot - Philadelphia News, Weather and Sports from WTXF FOX 29
(Lost it to an 18-year-old, as by rights Zimmerman could easily have lost his to Martin) Beaverton police officer whose gun was taken from him named in court records | OregonLive.com

There are circumstances under which carrying a firearm might make you safer, but not usually. Carrying a pistol didn't make Zimmerman safer, he still got decked and roughed up and was simply lucky not to lose his gun (going strictly by his story*, if you buy it). In the case of most civilians carrying a concealed firearm provides an illusion of security that is likely cause the arms-bearer to get into more trouble than he otherwise would, with often disastrous consequences. I actually considered getting a concealed carry permit after being chased by two enormous Rottweilers while I out on my bicycle (I cycle everywhere, almost never using my car for local travel/shopping, and while I often cycle through very rough black neighborhoods, I've only ever had trouble from white males; lots of cyclist-haters in Flawda). I decided against it because it isn't worth the hassle of worrying about the gun plus the added responsibility- the trouble it can cause is not worth the risk. Plus it would be useless when cycling to-from pub; can't drink at all while carrying. The chain lock or the monkey wrench in the saddle bag will have to do. Not to mention, since my young son has started traveling back to FL with me, all my guns are locked up, in the closet either with trigger locks attached or disassembled.

For some reason open carry is illegal in Florida, while concealed is not; if GZ had been brandishing his weapon when he pursued Martin he would have been breaking the law. A gun is usually worthless unless it is out before the assault begins; wait until you get hit, as Zimmerman claims he did, and you've waited too long. Again, I want to know, how in most cases does concealed carry make you safer? It clearly did not in GZ's case (*again).

Can you use pepper spray in FL? It's a very useful deterrent for dogs and human attackers too.

I believe so, have considered that when in the bike and concerned about dogs (especially when my kid is biking with me). In a place like Flawda wind direction could be an issue. Might also be good when the takeaway burrito is too bland.

[barbaro]

Cops lose or have guns taken from them

50% or close to 50% of cop fatalities are cops being shot with their own gun. At least that was the data in the 90s.

as by rights Zimmerman could easily have lost his to Martin)

Certainly possible. Close quarters. Zim kept a round in the chamber also. This, I never do.

how in most cases does concealed carry make you safer? It clearly did not in GZ's case (*again).

Zim's gun may have made him safer. Maybe he would have had brain damage, lost an eye, or died.

Who knows how long his attack would have continued.

In another example, take a female. Alone after work or somewhere. If she has a concealed weapon she has a better chance at defense.

The crimes of people with CCWs are very low.

I have had a CCW and taken safety courses.

A big benefit of CCW states is the "not knowing" factor. The deterrent factor.

When I go to an ATM, a potential robber has to thiink / guess: am I armed?

That raises the risks quite a bit.

[robuzo]

Cops lose or have guns taken from them

50% or close to 50% of cop fatalities are cops being shot with their own gun. At least that was the data in the 90s.

as by rights Zimmerman could easily have lost his to Martin)

Certainly possible. Close quarters. Zim kept a round in the chamber also. This, I never do.

how in most cases does concealed carry make you safer? It clearly did not in GZ's case (*again).

Zim's gun may have made him safer. Maybe he would have had brain damage, lost an eye, or died.

Wrong. Very likely he wouldn't have got into the altercation in the first place if hadn't brought his little friend along. He (supposedly) allowed himself to get knocked down, which against any hardened street tough would have meant game over. Having a gun his pants and letting himself get decked means ipso facto Zimmerman got himself into situation he couldn't handle, probably due to a false sense of confidence.

In another example, take a female. Alone after work or somewhere. If she has a concealed weapon she has a better chance at defense.

Really? Purse snatcher will give her fair warning before he grabs the purse with the gun? Mugger going to give her a chance to reach into the bag, and not have his weapon out first? She's going to have to see him coming, and be ready, and it's a clueless mugger that would afford that chance. Against a rapist, possibly it would be helpful, if the rapist assumes that she is helpless. Otherwise, surprised by an attacker at close range with his weapon already out the pistol is of little use.

The crimes of people with CCWs are very low.

Presumably you mean crimes committed by people carrying concealed. Point is? States that have introduced SYG have seen an increase in manslaughter rates.

A big benefit of CCW states is the "not knowing" factor. The deterrent factor.

When I go to an ATM, a potential robber has to thiink / guess: am I armed?

How is "not knowing" a deterrent? Are you suggesting that the fact that some people have CC licenses makes everyone safer? Nonsense. In any case, if someone comes up behind you at an ATM with his weapon (gun or knife) out, do you really think you will have the chance to draw and shoot (especially if you don't have a round chambered)? Good luck with that.

Muggers find it better to bash/stab/shoot without warning if potential victims are assumed to be packing- this is pretty much what muggers did in the days when everyone on the street was assumed to be armed; it was the robber MO in 19th century New York, London, and Moscow. A decent pistol is a better prize than most wallets would be anyway.

I think we have to look at what is making for a society in which so many people live in fear. It represents a huge failure of our legal system. The so-called War on Drugs has contributed to the problem by creating both an enormous black market to serve as a lucrative criminal economy, as well as helping to engender an urban (cocaine) and suburban/rural (meth) criminal underclass. Legions of knuckleheads like George Zimmerman walking around carrying lethal, easy-to-operate weapons are not the answer. People like Zimmerman are nothing but a menace to themselves and others when armed.

It should be noted that murder rates are down broadly in the US, probably at least in part due to the removal of lead from the environment (something that would be good for Thailand, btw), so in part the climate of fear is a matter of perception. Even when it comes to perception, it is difficult to see how more civilians carrying guns is not a recipe for more tension and fear, rather than the opposite.

[Boon Mee]

Wonder If I Can Get A Building Permit For This?

[barbaro]

Robuzo, post 629

That was a well thought out conscientious post.

I have been on long bus rides daily today and yesterday so I havent responded until now.

I am speculating and you are, that Zim probably-would not have followed Martin between the 2 houses if he was not armed. Hiding is suspicious behavior by Martin in a neighborhood with recent crime problems.

I agree with you on this speculation, but again, we are speculating.

I am also speculating that Martin attacked Zim because he thought he was unarmed.

As for the CCW laws, I support citizens getting gun permit after background checks. I have had them.

I wish there were 0 guns in the US. But unfortunately there are anywhere from 170 to 300 million.

Because of this, I support the option for concealed carry if i had a job that encountered danger, or if I lived in certain areas. Over 30 states allow CCW I believe and it will continue.

When I lived in the District of Columbia, in a neighborhood with occasional violent attacks on people, it was illegal for me and my roommates to keep a shot gun at home. Not good, IMO.

I have always kept 1 or more guns hidden at home.

[robuzo]

I am also speculating that Martin attacked Zim because he thought he was unarmed.

If Martin attacked first (no proof of that, only GZ's word, and if he did strike first there is no proof Martin wasn't provoked, unless being followed for no reason is provocative, which it is), maybe he didn't know GZ was armed. The thing is, the pistol Georgie was carrying wouldn't have amounted to shit had he been confronted by someone truly dangerous- someone who knew how and where to hit, someone with a knife or knuckleduster, etc. GZ survived- and killed a young man he followed for no reason- because he was fighting with someone fighting by playground/UFC rules, not a streetfighter. Not knowing if Martin was armed, and given that Zimmerman obviously had no basis for physical courage (supposedly decked by a punch in the nose that caused minor capillary damage and utterly useless in a fight according to his gym trainer) it is doubtful he would have approached a 6'2" scary Skittles-munching black manchild without the confidence afforded by his gun.

The ease of acquiring a CC permit plus the ridiculously loose Stand Your Ground laws are recipe for more such instances going unpunished, as well other cases of people shooting neighbors over garbage disputes, people shooting neighbors over love affairs, and people agreeing to meet in the street and shoot it out. The right to self-defense is a natural right, but it shouldn't go so far as allowing people to seek out confrontations, much less to arm themselves before doing so. These laws are not a recipe for a more civil society, but rather are a reflection of a society in the grip of fear. Whereas, with this- "When I lived in the District of Columbia, in a neighborhood with occasional violent attacks on people, it was illegal for me and my roommates to keep a shot gun at home. Not good, IMO."- I agree, although if you have kids or drunks in your house the firearms need to be secured.

Here is a case in which a guy managed to shoot four people before some brave man took the shooter down and shot him with his own gun: 3 Shot Dead at Pa. Town Meeting; Shooter Tackled - ABC News I guarantee there will be gun nuts screaming "If only there had been more people carrying guns at the town meeting!", as if more people firing during the mayhem (probably at the first other person they see with a gun, i.e., each other) would be helpful. So let me add "lack of common sense" to "grip of fear" above.

[youneverknow]

Another one... Guns and Geezers

Gun Safety Instructor Accidentally Shoots Student During Class - Business Insider


A Lancaster, Ohio firearms instructor accidentally shot one of his students during a gun safety demonstration, The Columbus Dispatch reports.

The handgun accidentally discharged during class, and a bullet ricocheted off a desk before hitting 26-year-old Michael Piemonte, a student in the class.

He was discharged from the hospital that same day — the bullet hit him in the arm, so there wasn't major damage — but he said that it could have been much worse.

"I am thankful that it only ended up being in my arm, and didn’t hit my wife or individuals sitting at the desk behind me," he told the newspaper.

Several nurses were in the class and they helped stabilize Piemonte before medics arrived.

The class instructor was 73-year-old Terry J. Dunlap Sr., a trustee for nearby Violet Township. Dunlap runs a shooting range and training center near Lancaster, and he shot Piemonte while he was leading a day-long concealed carry class, according to the Dispatch.

Dunlap was demonstrating self-defense techniques when the gun went off, according to CNN. There were 29 students in the class.

Piemonte speculated that Dunlap wasn't aware the gun was loaded during class. Dunlap has been calling Piemonte regularly to check in on him, Piemonte told CNN.

We reached out to Dunlap for comment and will update this post if we hear back.



--



As I mentioned somewhere else here, there are lots of old folks who probably shouldn't be messing with guns or cars. Of course, they won't let anyone take them away until you pry the gun or the steering wheel from their cold dead hands.

[Morden]

Another one... Guns and Geezers

Gun Safety Instructor Accidentally Shoots Student During Class - Business Insider


A Lancaster, Ohio firearms instructor accidentally shot one of his students during a gun safety demonstration, The Columbus Dispatch reports.

The handgun accidentally discharged during class, and a bullet ricocheted off a desk before hitting 26-year-old Michael Piemonte, a student in the class.

He was discharged from the hospital that same day — the bullet hit him in the arm, so there wasn't major damage — but he said that it could have been much worse.

"I am thankful that it only ended up being in my arm, and didn’t hit my wife or individuals sitting at the desk behind me," he told the newspaper.

Several nurses were in the class and they helped stabilize Piemonte before medics arrived.

The class instructor was 73-year-old Terry J. Dunlap Sr., a trustee for nearby Violet Township. Dunlap runs a shooting range and training center near Lancaster, and he shot Piemonte while he was leading a day-long concealed carry class, according to the Dispatch.

Dunlap was demonstrating self-defense techniques when the gun went off, according to CNN. There were 29 students in the class.

Piemonte speculated that Dunlap wasn't aware the gun was loaded during class. Dunlap has been calling Piemonte regularly to check in on him, Piemonte told CNN.

We reached out to Dunlap for comment and will update this post if we hear back.



--



As I mentioned somewhere else here, there are lots of old folks who probably shouldn't be messing with guns or cars. Of course, they won't let anyone take them away until you pry the gun or the steering wheel from their cold dead hands.

Your final comment applies to all ages.

In a classroom surely the instructor should have been using dummy bullets. Above that, he may not have known the gun was loaded! That's the first check when you pick up a gun.

[barbaro]

^ The instructor should go to jail.

Never have a loaded gun in a class, nor one in the chamber is it's a semi-automatic.

I have taken classes.

[robuzo]

^You mean, don't do what this guy done (amazingly keeps talking after shooting self in foot, so he's a hard dumbass).

[barbaro]

^ Again, he should be in jail, as well as others.

You never put your finger on the trigger, especially with a Glock, which has its safety on a trigger.

1. that gun had a round in the chamber.

2. Which means, it was loaded.

Lots of retards out there.

Oh yea, "fifty cent."

DEA agent? Horrible organization to being with, that is obviously hiring dumbshits.

[robuzo]

^ Again, he should be in jail, as well as others.

You never put your finger on the trigger, especially with a Glock, which has its safety on a trigger.

1. that gun had a round in the chamber.

I might need to watch again, but I think he dry fired it first, then ("thinking" the magazine was empty) for some reason chambered a round. Not sure why he would do that. . .that he hobbled around afterwards, presumably oozing blood all over the floor while continuing to jabber away, is just weird.

DEA agent? Horrible organization to being with, that is obviously hiring dumbshits.

Indeed. This is your brain on the War on Drugs. He tried to block the vid: DEA Agent Who Shot Self Presses Forward In Suit Against Gov’t (VIDEO) | TPMMuckraker

[Morden]

A perfect example of why guns and gun tuition have no place in schools.

[Mr Lick]

^ Agree Morden. The simple fact that 'professionals' do not bother to carry out the basics of firearms safety when drawing their weapon is worrying to say the very least.

This guy also runs a shooting range and firearms training centre? JHC, it's pretty clear that this guy shouldn't really be in charge of a newspaper round let alone alone firearms. Live ammunition in schools again beggars belief!

It's a fine model to all those 'responsible' gun owning amatuers out there who also believe they are infallible. They're not.

[youneverknow]

Another one... Guns and Geezers

Gun Safety Instructor Accidentally Shoots Student During Class - Business Insider


A Lancaster, Ohio firearms instructor accidentally shot one of his students during a gun safety demonstration, The Columbus Dispatch reports.

The handgun accidentally discharged during class, and a bullet ricocheted off a desk before hitting 26-year-old Michael Piemonte, a student in the class.

He was discharged from the hospital that same day — the bullet hit him in the arm, so there wasn't major damage — but he said that it could have been much worse.

"I am thankful that it only ended up being in my arm, and didn’t hit my wife or individuals sitting at the desk behind me," he told the newspaper.

Several nurses were in the class and they helped stabilize Piemonte before medics arrived.

The class instructor was 73-year-old Terry J. Dunlap Sr., a trustee for nearby Violet Township. Dunlap runs a shooting range and training center near Lancaster, and he shot Piemonte while he was leading a day-long concealed carry class, according to the Dispatch.

Dunlap was demonstrating self-defense techniques when the gun went off, according to CNN. There were 29 students in the class.

Piemonte speculated that Dunlap wasn't aware the gun was loaded during class. Dunlap has been calling Piemonte regularly to check in on him, Piemonte told CNN.

We reached out to Dunlap for comment and will update this post if we hear back.



--



As I mentioned somewhere else here, there are lots of old folks who probably shouldn't be messing with guns or cars. Of course, they won't let anyone take them away until you pry the gun or the steering wheel from their cold dead hands.

Your final comment applies to all ages.

True but of course I am suggesting that there's a point where formerly safe gun users and car drivers just must give up both of these for the sake of others. A lot of old folks in America's very be-independent society are going to come to the day when they are a danger to others. Old folks aren't able to work in most of the positions they did in their youth because their faculties are off. That's a fact. They are in danger of injuring themselves and in injuring others. As America turns seriously grey(and its turning fast) it is going to face more incidents due to age related reasons. Just a fact. I'm not saying there aren't others who aren't going to do the same things; I'm just saying that with so many more old people out there and with many of them over-estimating their handling of things, there are going to be avoidable accidents when there don't have to be.

A lot of you older folks will want to argue against this but by your age you should have already observed people in their 70s and 80s losing their faculties. Dementia, loss of eyesight, depth perception, physical weakness and more are going to be affecting a lot of people. I remember by grandfather in his 80s driving slow on the highway and speeding up way over the speedlimit on the off ramp. It was the beginning of his end. A lot of old folks just don't want to accept that they are old so at times society needs to step in and take away that car or that gun.

[barbaro]

[QUOTE=robuzo;2533830]

I might need to watch again, but I think he dry fired it first, then ("thinking" the magazine was empty) for some reason chambered a round. Not sure why he would do that. . .

The guy made many mistakes.

*Never dry fire a gun.

*Never put you finger on the trigger.

*Always assume a gun is loaded - after - you check and make sure it is not loaded.

[barbaro]

We have talked about stupidity. Here are the consequences.

This could be a 3rd strike which means life without parole, if the prosecutor goes for it.

This guy is looking at years in prison: gun in bar, pointing a gun at someone is mandatory 3 years in prison + firearm enhancement = 1 year. Add being prohibited from owning a gun and this guy will be in prison a long time

Note his arrested record at bottom.

Man in Silverdale bar suspected of pulling gun he wasn't supposed to have
By Kitsap Sun staff

Posted August 12, 2013 at 4:29 p.m., updated August 12, 2013 at 5:06 p.m.


Read more: Man in Silverdale bar suspected of pulling gun he wasn't supposed to have » Kitsap Sun


SILVERDALE — A Port Orchard man was charged Monday in Kitsap County District Court with first-degree

Read more: Man in Silverdale bar suspected of pulling gun he wasn't supposed to have » Kitsap Sun

Around 1:30 a.m. Saturday, bouncers from Old Town Bistro on Byron Street told deputies that there was a dispute in the bar and that Rashaun Williams threatened somebody with a gun. They broke up the fight, took the pistol from Williams’ back pocket and detained him in the kitchen. The .380-caliber subcompact pistol, which was loaded, had been stolen, according to court records.

The victim confirmed a gun had been pointed at him and said the two had a long-standing dislike for each other.

Williams, 35, was booked into the Kitsap County jail with no chance at bail, because he had violated his probation.

Williams could face up to life in prison.

Williams was convicted of two counts of first-degree robbery in 1998, so is barred from owning a firearm.

Rashaun Williams Cases:

Kitsap Superior 94-8-00344-9 04-12-1994
Appellant Coa, Division Ii 188350 11-04-1994
Appellant Coa, Division Ii 187582 10-18-1994
Pierce Co District 9YT112545 01-04-2010
Kitsap Superior 94-8-00671-5 08-16-1994
Kitsap Superior 09-3-01563-1 12-03-2009
Kitsap Superior 93-8-01202-4 12-27-1993
Kitsap Superior 94-8-00774-6 09-26-1994
Kitsap Superior 94-8-00212-4 02-25-1994
Kitsap District 9Y6158052 06-08-2009
Kitsap District 9Y6019173 03-05-2009
Bremerton Municipal XY0066614 01-14-2010
Ritzville Dist Court XY0157548 04-28-2010
Bremerton Municipal XY0328232 06-29-2010
Lower Kittitas Dist XY0010842 04-28-2010
Kitsap District XY0336599 11-29-2010
Upper Kittitas Dist 1Z0019132 01-10-2011
Kitsap Superior 97-1-01025-8 11-04-1997
Kitsap Superior 98-1-00053-6 01-14-1998
Pierce Co District 2ZC000421 01-30-2012
Pierce Co District 2ZC000420 01-30-2012
Kitsap District 10178718P 07-08-2011
Kitsap Superior 10-3-01785-8 12-20-2010
Kitsap Superior 12-3-00766-2 06-05-2012
Kitsap Superior 12-1-00424-1 04-24-2012
Ritzville Dist Court XY0388118 08-14-2010
Kitsap District 3Z0053230 01-16-2013
Grant County Dist Ct 3Z0044902 01-28-2013
Kitsap Superior 12-8-00584-6 11-29-2012
Bremerton Municipal 323704 12-08-1997
Kitsap District I06215828 06-02-2010
Kitsap District I06315153 08-16-2010
Kitsap District 10178713 12-23-1997
Bremerton Municipal 3Z0353747 04-18-2013
Lincoln Co Superior 13-3-01520-4 05-13-2013
Bremerton Municipal 183070 12-08-1997
Bremerton Municipal 10178716 02-19-1998
Kitsap Superior 13-8-00236-5 06-12-2013
Kitsap Superior 13-8-00211-0 05-30-2013
Kitsap Superior 13-8-00235-7 06-12-2013
Kitsap Superior 95-1-00786-2 09-06-1995
Kitsap Superior 95-8-00742-6 07-11-1995
Kitsap District 10178721P 08-12-2013

[Morden]

Another one... Guns and Geezers

Gun Safety Instructor Accidentally Shoots Student During Class - Business Insider


A Lancaster, Ohio firearms instructor accidentally shot one of his students during a gun safety demonstration, The Columbus Dispatch reports.

The handgun accidentally discharged during class, and a bullet ricocheted off a desk before hitting 26-year-old Michael Piemonte, a student in the class.

He was discharged from the hospital that same day — the bullet hit him in the arm, so there wasn't major damage — but he said that it could have been much worse.

"I am thankful that it only ended up being in my arm, and didn’t hit my wife or individuals sitting at the desk behind me," he told the newspaper.

Several nurses were in the class and they helped stabilize Piemonte before medics arrived.

The class instructor was 73-year-old Terry J. Dunlap Sr., a trustee for nearby Violet Township. Dunlap runs a shooting range and training center near Lancaster, and he shot Piemonte while he was leading a day-long concealed carry class, according to the Dispatch.

Dunlap was demonstrating self-defense techniques when the gun went off, according to CNN. There were 29 students in the class.

Piemonte speculated that Dunlap wasn't aware the gun was loaded during class. Dunlap has been calling Piemonte regularly to check in on him, Piemonte told CNN.

We reached out to Dunlap for comment and will update this post if we hear back.



--



As I mentioned somewhere else here, there are lots of old folks who probably shouldn't be messing with guns or cars. Of course, they won't let anyone take them away until you pry the gun or the steering wheel from their cold dead hands.

Your final comment applies to all ages.

True but of course I am suggesting that there's a point where formerly safe gun users and car drivers just must give up both of these for the sake of others. A lot of old folks in America's very be-independent society are going to come to the day when they are a danger to others. Old folks aren't able to work in most of the positions they did in their youth because their faculties are off. That's a fact. They are in danger of injuring themselves and in injuring others. As America turns seriously grey(and its turning fast) it is going to face more incidents due to age related reasons. Just a fact. I'm not saying there aren't others who aren't going to do the same things; I'm just saying that with so many more old people out there and with many of them over-estimating their handling of things, there are going to be avoidable accidents when there don't have to be.

A lot of you older folks will want to argue against this but by your age you should have already observed people in their 70s and 80s losing their faculties. Dementia, loss of eyesight, depth perception, physical weakness and more are going to be affecting a lot of people. I remember by grandfather in his 80s driving slow on the highway and speeding up way over the speedlimit on the off ramp. It was the beginning of his end. A lot of old folks just don't want to accept that they are old so at times society needs to step in and take away that car or that gun.

Wait until you are of mature years and decide then which ages are the most responsible.

[Boon Mee]

South Korean 'Super Gun' Can Lock On And Eliminate A Human Target From 3-Kilometers



Because what better way to deter trespassing than with an advanced weapons system that will kill you before you ever even see it, South Korean defense firm DoDaam just introduced the Super Aegis 2

Glad the NORKS don't have it...

[Mid]

Because what better way to deter trespassing than with an advanced weapons system that will kill you before you ever even see it,

cartoonmovement.com

[Boon Mee]

It may come as a surprise to many, but guns don’t cause anywhere near as many deaths as other unnatural causes do, even though the news and other media would have you believe otherwise. The facts speak louder than words, so get your data straight before spreading misinformation. Check out these top U.S. gun and death statistics compiled in this infographic by North American Hunting Club. - See more at: U.S. Gun Usage & Death Statistics [Infographic]

[hazz]

And boonmee we know this monky paste is complete bollocks, not only because you posted it.... but because if there any truth to it your contry would be the safest country in the western world..... rather than the one with the highest homicide rate.

[Rainfall]

Just read between the lines to appreciate how degenerate the US actually is. If 200,000 women used guns to prevent sexual abuse each year, but only 15% of the women own guns, there are at least 1.34 million cases of rape of women every year.

[Mr Lick]

For those american citizens who don't possess a permit to carry and feel exposed when they go shopping to the mall without a firearm, maybe this will help build their confidence