The Gun Issue thread

[TonyBKK]

You mentioned "independent thinking", but your thinking (as stated above) seems to be pretty much "party line" legalize drugs propaganda.

Crime in the US existed long before recreational use of illicit drugs became a problem. People commit crimes for various reasons including:

a) Thrill of just taking what you want (both property and sex) as opposing to acquiring things legally
b) Too lazy or too dumb to work and earn a living
c) Random violence associated with being "high" on cocaine and meth.


Even if all the drugs were free (i.e. paid for by taxpayer dollars), stoners would still have to eat and pay living expenses. That is hard to do if you stay stoned out of your mind on crack or other drugs. So again, the only way they could get the things they wanted (excluding drugs) would be to steal or have taxpayers pay for everything they want.

So now, you have a large segment of people who are totally dependent upon working people (taxpayers) to pay for their living expenses and their drugs.

Doesn't seem very fair to the working people.

Of course, if everyone decided staying high was more fun than working, then the entire country would resort to total anarchy and "every man for himself".

Today's drugs are extremely addictive, and, for some, drugs can induce criminal behavior including rape and homicide.

Losing one's child to drug addiction is a very sad thing and a waste of that person's life.

Perhaps you need to think a little harder on your proposed "solution" to gun violence.

RickThai

Who da heck is talking about free drugs? Sign me up!

Really though, what's mostly being discussed and gaining traction in America is the de-criminalisation of marijuana, because, let's face it, it doesn't make much sense for alcohol and cigarettes to be legal, but cannabis illegal.

I'm not aware of anyone in the US calling for the legalization of hard drugs like cocaine or crystal meth.

Ever been to Holland? Their system works pretty damn well and they have virtually no gun crime compared to the US.

It's a simple fact of life, stoners are pretty easy going mellow folk

[barbaro]

Even if all the drugs were free (i.e. paid for by taxpayer dollars), stoners would still have to eat and pay living expenses. That is hard to do if you stay stoned out of your mind on crack or other drugs. So again

--

Rick Tai,

All of the people I know that smoke, work. And almost all of the people I know that drink, work.

Free. Legalize. Not the point.

[GR3]

[quote=Camel Toe;2370303]

Snip...As for race, as mentioned, it's White people who do the mass killings.....Snip

Between April and June 1994, an estimated 800,000 Rwandans were killed in the space of 100 days. Most of the dead were Tutsis - and most of those who perpetrated the violence were Hutus.
Adolf Hitler with German efficiancy managed to slaughter 3287 a day with his industrial genocidal infastructure, however he was blown away by Black Africans with machettes who managed 8000 a day presumably before they ran out of victims or RSI set in. So think long and hard about what you type, there are more Black genocides, google it.


Also;

[Boon Mee]

Daily Telegraph Poll - 86% of the folks want to repeal UK handgun ban.

"An overwhelming majority of British citizens want their country’s handgun ban repealed, according to the results of an on-line poll conducted by the Daily Telegraph, described Wednesday as the United Kingdom’s “most widely read broadsheet newspaper” by the Commentator.

As this column was updated Thursday, more than 14,900 votes had been cast in the unscientific poll, and of those, 12,603 support a repeal of the 1997 gun ban, an 84.35 percent vote. It far out-distanced votes for several other measures that Britons would like to see introduced in the House of Commons, according to the newspaper."

NRA To Soon Open In The UK?

[Morden]

Daily Telegraph Poll - 86% of the folks want to repeal UK handgun ban.

"An overwhelming majority of British citizens want their country’s handgun ban repealed, according to the results of an on-line poll conducted by the Daily Telegraph, described Wednesday as the United Kingdom’s “most widely read broadsheet newspaper” by the Commentator.

As this column was updated Thursday, more than 14,900 votes had been cast in the unscientific poll, and of those, 12,603 support a repeal of the 1997 gun ban, an 84.35 percent vote. It far out-distanced votes for several other measures that Britons would like to see introduced in the House of Commons, according to the newspaper."

NRA To Soon Open In The UK?

I find that poll hard to believe. Very few Britons had guns before the current laws were introduced and there's no reason why that would change much if the laws were relaxed.

[Mid]

Daily Telegraph Poll - 86% of the folks want to repeal UK handgun ban.

(17,090 votes)

Telegraph new law competition: vote now - Telegraph

wonder what the population of the UK is ?

[Boon Mee]

Daily Telegraph Poll - 86% of the folks want to repeal UK handgun ban.

(17,090 votes)

Telegraph new law competition: vote now - Telegraph

wonder what the population of the UK is ?

Maybe the poll is what they call a 'leading indicator'?

[pseudolus]

Daily Telegraph Poll - 86% of the folks want to repeal UK handgun ban.

(17,090 votes)

Telegraph new law competition: vote now - Telegraph

wonder what the population of the UK is ?

Does look suspiciously hijacked to me. A quick search for the link does indeed show that it is being flung on Gun Lovers website in the UK and USA with a "please vote now" appeal attached to it. The link it not really showing up for supporters of the other suggested laws.

"www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10071072/Telegraph-new-law-competition-vote-now.html" -

[sabang]

In Arizona, they make hundreds of millions of dollars arming the Mexican drug cartels, with their lax gun laws it's a doddle. Your War on Drugs is bullshit, but your War on Mexico is real.

[Boon Mee]

In Arizona, they make hundreds of millions of dollars arming the Mexican drug cartels, with their lax gun laws it's a doddle. Your War on Drugs is bullshit, but your War on Mexico is real.

Indeed.

Check in with Eric Holder on that. Get his opinion on how Fast & Furious should improve?
Only got one Border Patrolman (US) killed (that I'm aware of) so far...

[RickThai]

Even if all the drugs were free (i.e. paid for by taxpayer dollars), stoners would still have to eat and pay living expenses. That is hard to do if you stay stoned out of your mind on crack or other drugs. So again

--

Rick Tai,

All of the people I know that smoke, work. And almost all of the people I know that drink, work.

Free. Legalize. Not the point.

I agree that legalizing herb is not the end of the world, but once you start legalizing crack and heroin, then you will have one hell of a lot of dysfunctional, addicted people.

Actually I was in Switzerland a few years ago, and was talking with the waiter (a young man in his late 20s).

He told me that he originally wanted to be a chef and had attended a highly-regarded, culinary school but had to drop out, because he was smoking too much weed and it got in the way of his studies.

No doubt, that even with legalized pot, there will be a lot more people who become less motivated and choose the "easy" way of staying/getting high, as opposed to working hard.

Just as alcohol has taken its toll on the lives and potential of thousands of people, increased use of pot with take its share as well.

Just my opinion.

Sanit,

RickThai

[sabang]

Reckon you'll find many more mass gun killers are on pharmaceutical drugs than weed Rick. Those antidepressants must be some buzz.

Santi.

[Mr Earl]

Even if all the drugs were free (i.e. paid for by taxpayer dollars), stoners would still have to eat and pay living expenses. That is hard to do if you stay stoned out of your mind on crack or other drugs. So again

--

Rick Tai,

All of the people I know that smoke, work. And almost all of the people I know that drink, work.

Free. Legalize. Not the point.

I agree that legalizing herb is not the end of the world, but once you start legalizing crack and heroin, then you will have one hell of a lot of dysfunctional, addicted people.

Actually I was in Switzerland a few years ago, and was talking with the waiter (a young man in his late 20s).

He told me that he originally wanted to be a chef and had attended a highly-regarded, culinary school but had to drop out, because he was smoking too much weed and it got in the way of his studies.

No doubt, that even with legalized pot, there will be a lot more people who become less motivated and choose the "easy" way of staying/getting high, as opposed to working hard.

Just as alcohol has taken its toll on the lives and potential of thousands of people, increased use of pot with take its share as well.

Just my opinion.

Sanit,

RickThai

It has been long known that the % of addicts in the population remains constant whether drugs are legal or illegal. In fact studies show that decriminalization usually decreases the number of addicts.
The war on drugs is a massive fraud put on the public. The budget for 2012 was 26 billion, more that NASA!
Addiction is a serious problem and should be addressed as a social issue not a criminal one.
Drug prohibition has create a massive and heavily armed criminal underworld and a massive onerous militarized police presence.
Additionally illegal drug money( about 400 billion dollars) fuels the arms supply for terrorists, and the over sized military.

The bottom line is that letting this government intrusion in our lives only makes more problems rather than solve the issue of drug addiction.

BTW the creation crystal meth and crack cocaine are direct results of the drug prohibition. Virtually no one would touch crack or crystal meth if pharmaceutical grade ether washed cocaine were available to the registered addict.
If you want or have to be a to be drug addict you sign up.

Also BTW alcohol abuse increased during prohibition. Drug prohibition is a massive failure.

[TonyBKK]

Even if all the drugs were free (i.e. paid for by taxpayer dollars), stoners would still have to eat and pay living expenses. That is hard to do if you stay stoned out of your mind on crack or other drugs. So again

--

Rick Tai,

All of the people I know that smoke, work. And almost all of the people I know that drink, work.

Free. Legalize. Not the point.

I agree that legalizing herb is not the end of the world, but once you start legalizing crack and heroin, then you will have one hell of a lot of dysfunctional, addicted people.

Actually I was in Switzerland a few years ago, and was talking with the waiter (a young man in his late 20s).

He told me that he originally wanted to be a chef and had attended a highly-regarded, culinary school but had to drop out, because he was smoking too much weed and it got in the way of his studies.

No doubt, that even with legalized pot, there will be a lot more people who become less motivated and choose the "easy" way of staying/getting high, as opposed to working hard.

Just as alcohol has taken its toll on the lives and potential of thousands of people, increased use of pot with take its share as well.

Just my opinion.

Sanit,

RickThai

You think that because you legalize a drug it becomes more popular? How's that working out for cigarettes and alcohol?

[RickThai]

Even if all the drugs were free (i.e. paid for by taxpayer dollars), stoners would still have to eat and pay living expenses. That is hard to do if you stay stoned out of your mind on crack or other drugs. So again

--

Rick Tai,

All of the people I know that smoke, work. And almost all of the people I know that drink, work.

Free. Legalize. Not the point.

I agree that legalizing herb is not the end of the world, but once you start legalizing crack and heroin, then you will have one hell of a lot of dysfunctional, addicted people.

Actually I was in Switzerland a few years ago, and was talking with the waiter (a young man in his late 20s).

He told me that he originally wanted to be a chef and had attended a highly-regarded, culinary school but had to drop out, because he was smoking too much weed and it got in the way of his studies.

No doubt, that even with legalized pot, there will be a lot more people who become less motivated and choose the "easy" way of staying/getting high, as opposed to working hard.

Just as alcohol has taken its toll on the lives and potential of thousands of people, increased use of pot with take its share as well.

Just my opinion.

Sanit,

RickThai

You think that because you legalize a drug it becomes more popular? How's that working out for cigarettes and alcohol?

Recent studies in the US show that alcohol and cigarette use among young people is increasing in spite of all the "education" showing its harmful effects.

Makes sense to me; the easier it is to get something, the easier it is for people to "try it".

In Colorado, where Medical Marijuana has been legal for a year or so, young people are increasingly getting "caught' with Medical Marijuana brands in their possession, even though the law states you have to be 18 or older to purchase and possess the drug.

Can you imagine some low-life, getting high school girls to try "crack"? It happened in NYC a few years back, where some guy was getting high school girls hooked on "crack" so that he could have sex with them (sex for drugs). Unfortunately the guy also had AIDS.

RickThai

[RickThai]

.
It has been long known that the % of addicts in the population remains constant whether drugs are legal or illegal. In fact studies show that decriminalization usually decreases the number of addicts.

BTW the creation crystal meth and crack cocaine are direct results of the drug prohibition. Virtually no one would touch crack or crystal meth if pharmaceutical grade ether washed cocaine were available to the registered addict.
If you want or have to be a to be drug addict you sign up.

As far as your "studies", you need to check the organization behind the studies (just as Tobacco companies paid for all kinds of "studies" about tobacco addiction).

Meth and crack give a different kind of high. People who learn to appreciate (get addicted to) that kind of high (which will not stop with increased availability of other drugs) will continue to use and let other people "try it" (the more the merrier, right?).

Actually, I thought some of the European countries that have legalized hard drugs for the past 20 years or so, have reported an increase in dysfunctional, dopers?

RickThai

[MrG]

Actually, I thought some of the European countries that have legalized hard drugs for the past 20 years or so, have reported an increase in dysfunctional, dopers?

Try this:
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/debate/myths/myths4.htm

Comes complete with footnotes. Assuming they didn't cherry-pick their sources and snipe the quotes to prove the point they wanted, it looks like a pretty legitimate site with some very strong arguments.

And of course, I don't beleive any of the countries mentioned have as many guns out there in some guys pocket.

[TonyBKK]

Recent studies in the US show that alcohol and cigarette use among young people is increasing in spite of all the "education" showing its harmful effects.

^ Got a link for that?

CDC figures show quite clearly that cigarette and alcohol use have been decreasing steadily for years in the US... CDC - Smoking & Tobacco Use CDC - Alcohol and Public Health Home Page - Alcohol

[TonyBKK]

Actually, I thought some of the European countries that have legalized hard drugs for the past 20 years or so, have reported an increase in dysfunctional, dopers?

I thought you were trying to make a point, until I saw the question mark at the end...

Where in Europe are "hard drugs" legal? Are you thinking of methadone perhaps?

[Mr Earl]

^Methadone is another massive fraud on the public, where the so called solution is much worse than the problem, it's much worse than heroin, nine times more addictive, it get's into the bone marrow, withdrawal leads to convulsions and death. Heroin withdrawal is relatively mild in comparison.

So thanks to drug prohibition we now crystal meth which much more addictive(ie makes the addict an even worse addict) than cocaine. We go crack cocaine which also much more addictive than ether washed cocaine, and methadone where cold turkey off the drug is deadly.

Then consider the whole criminal issue and the billions of dollars of illegal drug money fueling a sorts of nasty things and corrupting politicians. And where do those billions of dollars come from? Basically out the pocket average Joe Taxpayer, either from taxes or being a victim of drug related crime.
So any way you look at it drug prohibition is a loser for society in general.

[Boon Mee]

Check out the latest idiocy re guns.

Boy suspended for talking about guns on school bus. “

”The principal told me that with what happened at Sandy Hook if you say the word ‘gun’ in my school you are going to get suspended for 10 days.”

The principal’s name is Darrel Prioleau. But wait, there’s more: “The boy was questioned by the principal and a sheriff’s deputy, who also wanted to search the family home without a warrant.”

Tar + Feathers...

[TonyBKK]

Check out the latest idiocy re guns.

Boy suspended for talking about guns on school bus. “

”The principal told me that with what happened at Sandy Hook if you say the word ‘gun’ in my school you are going to get suspended for 10 days.”

The principal’s name is Darrel Prioleau. But wait, there’s more: “The boy was questioned by the principal and a sheriff’s deputy, who also wanted to search the family home without a warrant.”

Tar + Feathers...

In this day and age where the NRA and it's hired Rethuglican lawmakers are trying to put assault weapons in the hands of every mentally unstable gun nut in America it's appropriate for school officials to investigate when there is a concern about student safety.

The kid said "I wish I had a gun" on the school bus. Yeah, that deserves a bit of follow up, don't you think?

Why don't you try talking about BOMBS in an airport and see what happens Booners

[Boon Mee]

Check out the latest idiocy re guns.

Boy suspended for talking about guns on school bus. “

”The principal told me that with what happened at Sandy Hook if you say the word ‘gun’ in my school you are going to get suspended for 10 days.”

The principal’s name is Darrel Prioleau. But wait, there’s more: “The boy was questioned by the principal and a sheriff’s deputy, who also wanted to search the family home without a warrant.”

Tar + Feathers...

In this day and age where the NRA and it's hired Rethuglican lawmakers are trying to put assault weapons in the hands of every mentally unstable gun nut in America

Musta told you a million times, don't exaggerate...

[TonyBKK]

How many more innocents have to die at the hands of maniacs with assault weapons before America wakes up and realizes that common sense gun regulation is the right thing to do.

[Mr Lick]

Several wounded in Santa Monica college shooting




Santa Monica College is on lockdown

Several people have been injured after a gunman opened fire on the campus of a college in Santa Monica, California, police say.

One person, believed to be the gunman, was taken to hospital, police said.

The college is located streets away from a fundraising event to be attended by President Barack Obama.

Police Sgt Rudy Flores said witnesses reported a man shooting at cars and a bus from a street corner. The college remains on lockdown.

The Secret Service, which protects the US president, said they were aware of the incident, but it would not affect Mr Obama's schedule.

He was due to speak at a fundraiser for the Democratic National Committee.

Santa Monica College offers a two-year programme and has about 34,000 students.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-228232


Another black day in the USA? The NRA train no doubt will still be rolling out their 'right to bear arms' nonsense in the following 24 hours, therefore merely a normal day for them and their members.