The Gun Issue thread

[raycarey]

we're about to start the 6th year of obama's presidency......whatever happened to those gun and ammo seizures the right wing fever swamps promised were coming?

Not going to happen. Nor is any significant change to the status quo of current gun control laws. Obama and the rest of the gun control advocates are good at expressing regret and condolences to the families of shooting victims but all have failed to do a damn thing to reduce the number of deaths.

first of all, the part of my post that you've quoted was typed with tongue placed firmly in cheek. of course it's not going to happen....it was never intended to happen....the confiscation conspiracy theories propagated by the gun industry never had a basis in reality.

secondly, i remember the president and the democrat controlled senate bringing up sane gun legislation but it being filibustered by republicans. the overwhelming majority of the american public approved, but republicans stopped the law in its tracks because of their fear of the gun lobby.

[Norton]

first of all, the part of my post that you've quoted was typed with tongue placed firmly in cheek.

I know that but it was convenient for my wee rant.

[raycarey]

^ what about the senate republicans' filibuster? you seem to be placing blame on the president for that, and i'm not sure how/why. and let's not even go into how any gun legislation could never get through the republican controlled house.

[Norton]

what about the senate republicans' filibuster? you seem to be placing blame on the president for that

Not placing blame on anyone. Stating a simple truth. Nothing has changed. The gun control advocates have failed. Mission not accomplished.

[raycarey]

^ of course there are issues where both republicans and democrats are at fault.....IMO, this is not one of them--and quite frankly, i don't see how anyone could see it otherwise.

quite simply, no gun legislation was passed (or even brought up for a vote!) because of the GOP and the gun lobby.

the president's hands were tied. there was nothing he could do.....christ, all those little kids senselessly gunned down in their school, and the GOP still bowed down before the gun lobby. it's madness....and it's only a matter of time before it happens again.

[barbaro]

Common sense, really:

Detroit Police Chief James Craig: More People Should Be Armed

Friday, 10 Jan 2014 05:57 PM
By Bill Hoffmann

Detroit Police Chief James Craig believes crime would drop in the violence-ravaged Motor City if more citizens were armed.

"Most burglars know that, one, they don't want to go inside of a home where the resident's at, because there's a likelihood they might be armed," Craig told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

"That's why the burglars tend to err on the side of going in during the daytime when folks are at work."

Craig says there is no reason law-abiding citizens shouldn't be prepared to defend themselves, because criminals certainly are ready.

"These streetwise, violent predators in Detroit are savvy enough that when they're out committing their violent acts, some of them are wearing protective body armor," he said.

"Not only do they wear protective body armor, in some instances, the same violent criminals will make victims disrobe to verify whether or not they're actually armed.

"One researcher suggested after going in to talk with prisoners that they're more afraid of armed citizens than they are armed police officers. That makes a significant statement," Craig said.

"It's troubling when I hear people suggest to me that, 'Well, Chief, you're trying to introduce more guns into a society; that increases crime. How do you figure that?' So I guess it's OK for the criminals who carry guns illegally. Do you think they're going to be sanctioned?"

http://www.newsmax.com/NewsmaxTv/det...1/10/id/546492

[Mr Lick]

Bugger, and all the time the less astute thought that the common sense approach would be that if nobody possessed a firearm then nobody would suffer gunshot wounds.

All hail Police Chief Craig.

[sabang]

Even by amerkin standards, Detroit is a dysfunctional society.

[Boon Mee]

Bugger, and all the time the less astute thought that the common sense approach would be that if nobody possessed a firearm then nobody would suffer gunshot wounds.

Blame that 'ol pesky 2nd Amendment...

[saipan]

....the confiscation conspiracy theories propagated by the gun industry never had a basis in reality.

secondly, i remember the president and the democrat controlled senate bringing up sane gun legislation but it being filibustered by republicans. the overwhelming majority of the american public approved, but republicans stopped the law in its tracks because of their fear of the gun lobby.

Actually confiscation did happen. In UK and Australia, and if it wasn't for NRA (and NFA in Canada) it would happen here too. It's always one little step at a time. Why gun control, why not CRIME control?

Why for example UK, with their handgun confiscation and other sever firearm restrictions have almost double the homicide rate of Switzerland, a country full of firearms, including fully auto military rifles in all households?

There's also big difference between UK and USA. In UK people are just subjects, in the US they are citizens. Without Caribbean and Mexico as neighbors US homicide rate would be low as here in Canada where we have also lot of firearms.

Btw, Czech Republic has almost the same firearms freedom as USA (little better than Canada) and the homicide rate is same as Switzerland, 0.8. One can Google World Homicide Rates and compare.

[saipan]

^

the president's hands were tied. there was nothing he could do.....christ, all those little kids senselessly gunned down in their school, and the GOP still bowed down before the gun lobby. it's madness....and it's only a matter of time before it happens again.

You believe street gangs (source of most shootings) care about some gun legislation?

3,000 innocent people were killed in matter of an hour in WTC - just because liberal hoplophobes decided to disarm commercial pilots. I will always blame then for that. Now the pilots are once again armed - but too late for the 3,000 innocent victims.

[panama hat]

Actually confiscation did happen. In UK and Australia

Indeed . . . and look at the gun-related crime rate. Amazing.

Less guns = less gun-related crime

Why gun control, why not CRIME control?

Why for example UK, with their handgun confiscation and other sever firearm restrictions have almost double the homicide rate of Switzerland, a country full of firearms, including fully auto military rifles in all households?

Yet again inaccuracies and outright lies

In UK people are just subjects, in the US they are citizens. Without Caribbean and Mexico as neighbors US homicide rate would be low as here in Canada where we have also lot of firearms.

Ah, those darn darkies and their murdering ways of good white people

3,000 innocent people were killed in matter of an hour in WTC - just because liberal hoplophobes decided to disarm commercial pilots.

Hoplophobe? That's the reason?

I will always blame then for that

They'll just have to live with that



Ok, come on - - - which multi-nic is this

[hazz]

probably earl

Some research than managed to get past the NRA gag on the US government.... new improved gagging legislation predicted.

Missouri gun murders 'rose after law repeal'
BBC

Researchers claim a new study provides some of the most compelling evidence yet for tighter gun controls in the US.

The team followed the consequences of the State of Missouri repealing its permit-to-purchase handgun law in 2007.

The law had required purchasers to be vetted by the local sheriff and to receive a licence before buying a gun.

Reporting soon in the Journal of Urban Health, the researchers will say that the repeal resulted in an immediate spike in gun violence and murders.

The study links the abandonment of the background check to an additional 60 or so murders occurring per year in Missouri between 2008 and 2012.

"Coincident exactly with the policy change, there was an immediate upward trajectory to the homicide rates in Missouri," said Prof Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

"That upward trajectory did not happen with homicides that did not involve guns; it did not occur to any neighbouring state; the national trend was doing the opposite – it was trending downward; and it was not specific to one or two localities – it was, for the most part, state-wide," he told BBC News.

The team said it took account of changes that occurred in policing levels and incarceration rates, trends in burglaries, and statistically controlled for other possible confounding factors such as shifts in unemployment and poverty.


What was stark, added Prof Webster, was the rise in the number of handguns that subsequently found their way into the hands of criminals.

The team counted a doubling of handguns shortly after sale being recovered from scenes of crimes or from criminals.

"This study is compelling confirmation that weaknesses in firearm laws lead to deaths from gun violence," said Prof Webster.

The Johns Hopkins researcher was participating in a discussion here at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

The theme was "science-based strategies for reducing gun violence".

America currently has more than 300 million firearms in circulation. But the issue of gun control remains a hugely contentious one.

[Bettyboo]

It's not rocket science. Saying that arming a society makes it safer with less gun crime is just hilarious...

[BaitongBoy]

^Certainly would seem that way...

[Troy]

In UK people are just subjects,

No they aren't. They are citizens.

UK Border Agency | Who is a British subject?

[hazz]

Just as an asside, ive been in hk for a little while and where i am staying seems to be the major area for demos and other events. I have yet to see a policeman doing crowd control at these events armed with a gun.... not sure its because its a civilized place or these chaps are pretend police in police uniforms..... but its refreshing to see.

[baldrick]

Last week, Colorado state Rep. Jared Wright, a Republican, left his handgun in a canvas bag in the state capitol—following a hearing on rolling back concealed carry laws. Wright, a former police officer, told the Denver Post he will stop carrying his revolver to committee meetings. He wasn't the first public servant in recent memory to forget, shoot, drop, or otherwise unintentionally mishandle a firearm:

2014
Kentucky state Rep. Leslie Combs, a Democrat, accidentally fires a gun in her capitol office while attempting to empty it in front of another lawmaker.

2013
West Virginia Del. Kelli Sobonya drops her handgun in a meeting with Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin."I said, 'Hey, Governor, you don't have to worry; I have my permit,'" she tells the Charleston Daily Mail.
Dave Evans, an aide to Missouri House Speaker Tim Jones, leaves a loaded gun on top of a capitol bathroom toilet paper dispenser.
Texas state Rep. Drew Darby is arrested at an Austin airport after a loaded .380 Ruger is found in his carry-on bag.

2012
New Hampshire state Rep. Kyle Tasker explains that he dropped one of his two handguns on the floor of the capitol because he was "loopy" from just donating blood.

2011
More butterfingered Granite State Republicans: State Rep. George Lambert drops his holstered gun outside the statehouse. State Rep. Paul Mirski drops his firearm during a meeting and doesn't get around to picking it up until the event adjourns.

2008
Oklahoma state Rep. Sally Kern is caught bringing a loaded handgun into the capitol in her purse. "As soon as my purse went through the scanner and the uh, gentleman there said, 'Representative Kern,' I went, 'Aw, I forgot!,'" Kern tells a local news station. It's the second time in two months.

2007
An aide to Democratic Virginia Sen. James Webb is arrested for carrying his boss' loaded gun into a Senate office building.

2006
Virginia Del. Jack Reid fires his handgun in his office as he's trying to remove the clip. The round strikes a bulletproof vest hanging on a door.
Vice President Dick Cheney hits a hunting companion in the face with birdshot while hunting quail in Texas.

2002
A pistol goes off as it's being handed to Georgia Rep. Bob Barr at a reception. Explains the lobbyist who passed the gun, "We were handling it safely, except that it was loaded."

Loaded Chambers: A Brief History of Politicians Accidentally Shooting Things | Mother Jones

[Bettyboo]

Virginia Del. Jack Reid fires his handgun in his office as he's trying to remove the clip. The round strikes a bulletproof vest hanging on a door.

Yeah, ok...

[BaitongBoy]

"We were handling it safely, except that it was loaded."

These people should not be allowed to speak for themselves...

[Troy]

Originally Posted by baldrick
2014
Kentucky state Rep. Leslie Combs, a Democrat, accidentally fires a gun in her capitol office while attempting to empty it in front of another lawmaker.

Combs called the bizarre incident an accident.

Everyone should have seen it as negligent discharge....and removed her permit to concealed-carry

[Mr Lick]

Another nutcase with access to firearms, the US has more than it's fair share of both.

LA police station gunman 'had AK-47 in his car'



The police officers returned fire, critically wounding the gunman

A gunman who opened fire inside a Los Angeles police station, wounding an officer, left a powerful assault rifle in his car outside, police have said.

Daniel Yealu, 29, entered the lobby on Monday night, said he had a complaint, then began shooting, police said.

He hit one officer several times before he was wounded in the ensuing shootout, police said.

The suspected gunman is in critical condition in hospital while the wounded officer is expected to recover.

Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck said Mr Yealu had left an AK-47 rifle in his vehicle parked outside the station.

"By the grace of God, the suspect did not come in with the assault weapons that he has had access to, one of which I believe was in his vehicle," Mr Beck said, according to the Los Angeles Times.

Officials also found ammunition and several weapons including two assault-style rifles, a shotgun and two handguns at Mr Yealu's home.

Records showed he had been licensed to work as a security guard since 2005 and to carry a firearm since 2007.

Police say the shooting began shortly after 20:00 local time on Monday (03:00 GMT Tuesday), when a gunman entered the station's small lobby and approached its front desk.

The gunman said "I have a complaint", before he began shooting at the officers, Cdr Andrew Smith said.

Despite one of them being wounded, both were able to return fire, hitting the suspect several times.

No-one else was injured in the shooting and police say they know of no motive yet for the attack

BBC News - LA police station gunman 'had AK-47 in his car'

[Mr Lick]

Now here's a man that is prepared to take on the NRA and it's political supporters.


Michael Bloomberg in $50m gun law election push



Bloomberg has already spent millions to build support for stricter gun laws


Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has announced a $50m (£30m) election year push for stricter gun laws across the US.

In an interview with the New York Times, Mr Bloomberg said his new group Everytown for Gun Safety would focus on building grassroots support.

Gun control laws face a difficult path in the US Congress, which is packed with allies of the powerful gun lobby.

But Mr Bloomberg noted that some states have tightened gun laws on their own.
'Hearts and minds'

In a co-ordinated media push on Wednesday, Mr Bloomberg said the new spending would not focus on TV advertisements but on outreach and organising campaigns, mirroring efforts by the nation's largest gun rights lobby group, the National Rifle Association (NRA)




"This is not a battle of dollars," the former mayor told NBC News. "This is a battle for the hearts and minds of America."

An ultra-wealthy financial and media mogul who served as mayor of New York from 2002-14, Mr Bloomberg has made gun control one of his central issues. He has already spent significant amounts of his own money on his campaign and helped organise a gun control group, Mayors Against Illegal Guns.

He spent $13m last year on an advertising campaign in an attempt to convince key US senators to support stricter background checks on gun sales.

That legislation collapsed under unanimous opposition from the Republican Party and amid reluctance among vulnerable Democrats from conservative states to take on the well-organised gun lobby.

The NRA did not comment on Mr Bloomberg's announcement, but another gun lobbying group told the Times the mayor was free to waste his considerable personal fortune on the issue.

"Frankly, I think he's going to find out why his side keeps losing," Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said

'Take my children'

Everytown will serve as an umbrella organisation for Mr Bloomberg's existing groups, Mayors Against Illegal Guns and Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America.

The push will focus on women voters, specifically reaching out to mothers online to press politicians running for the US Congress in this November's midterm election.

"The gun lobby has done a good job over the last 30 years of making a vocal minority afraid people will take their guns away," Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action, told NBC.

"As a mother, I'm afraid someone is going to take my children away, and I believe at the end of the day, that emotion will carry it."

Mr Bloomberg, who first ran as a Republican and then an independent, said he would bring both Republican and Democratic leaders on to Everytown's board, and rejected criticism he was making it more difficult for Democrats to retain the US Senate this year by criticising pro-gun Democrats.

"You can tell me all you want that the Republicans would be worse in the Senate than the Democrats," he told the Times. "Maybe they would. But that's not what we're talking about here"


BBC News - Michael Bloomberg in $50m gun law election push

[misskit]

Eric Parker, who lives in central Idaho, aims his weapon from a bridge as protesters gather by the Bureau of Land Management's base camp in Bunkerville, Nevada. (Jim Urquhart/Reuters)


Photo makes me feel dizzy. Probably deserves its own thread but I post it here to show how crazy and out of control the gun-toting nuts have gotten.

This is a photo taken a standoff between the Feds and armed militia groups over the confiscation of cattle grazing unlawfully on federal land.


Read the story here: The Irony of Cliven Bundy's Unconstitutional Stand - Matt Ford - The Atlantic

[mustafa goze]

Im with Bloomberg on this one.